# K10 Fresh v K8 Fresh



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have been using my K8 this week with the DSOL offering and thoroughly enjoyed it, so, I emptied out the last of those and put some Jampit in, bearing in mind I know this bean inside out. The K8 went first and the shot looked very pleasing with a nice deep colour, good crema with flecking in. Nice mouth feel but the initial taste was an acidic fruit which gave way to more fruity notes. the K10 then produced a stunning shot that looked and smelt good with a much deeper rounded taste with no acidity and nuts and chocolate coming through as I would expect.

I am going to play around ove the weekend and see if I can get some others around to see what they think. I was surprised in truth. I have not run any dsol through the K10 so cannot compare that but I did not think the difference in taste would be so great!


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

K8 out... One of the two lightly used K10s in "For sale" in?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The two compliment each other nicely, fellow K10 owner........the K8 is easy to make fly adjustments on and ideal for slipping a 250 gm of guest coffee into and getting it at the right levels within a couple of shots. But, the k10, as you will know, clubs everything else into submission. I suspect in a shoot out with the EK and others, on Espresso only, it will win


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

A grinder you have will beat a grinder you have not tasted from .......

interesting ........









some people will prefer one , some the other I suspect

same as some people prefer light roasted and some darker coffee

one is not Better or worse , people prefer different things .

Sometimes prople start of liking one thing and then prefer something else later...

as long as you have the one you prefer and tastes best to you it doesn't really matter


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I guess the point I have not really explained, is that I just cannot get over how different the same bean tastes when ground through two grinders. If any members live near each other, this would be interesting if you got together with both grinders, and played with the same bean. It makes you wonder just how such a difference should exist.....or it makes me think anyway


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Are you weighing in and out for comparable extractions mr Kidd ( puts tin helmet on ready for answer )

undoubtedly some differences will be flat versus concial . Some will be Kidd vs Kidd


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Less retention with the K8 then? Not that I find the K10 retention an issue as once dialled in it hardly needs touching.

FYI I'm getting a CNC milled dosing cylinder made to help with the extra fluffy K10 grinds... Will put a few pics on here once I have it finished, but it'll be designed to work with the existing portafilter holder. Hopefully will keep all grinds neatly in the PF


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> A grinder you have will beat a grinder you have not tasted from .......
> 
> interesting ........
> 
> ...


Ah, a defensive Mr Boots this morning then! I said, I think the K10 will beat the EK on espresso and I stand by that. I think the Ek, although not for me, is a fantastic grinder but, why does one grinder have to have at least two burr types and different mechanisms behind them. This would suggest to me, that the true range of the spectrum is too wide for a single burr set to cover, so, do you go brewed or espresso or settle for one which will go from one end to the other in full knowledge that a dedicated burr set will do better......after all, if they did not do better, then why would they exist as an offering?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you weighing in and out for comparable extractions mr Kidd ( puts tin helmet on ready for answer )
> 
> undoubtedly some differences will be flat versus concial . Some will be Kidd vs Kidd


You know I do not give a fig about that weighing mullarkey bootsie! Drinks fall into two categories for me, drinkable or not!

Boy, why not video each extraction, then drink it and fill in a supporting data sheet so you can build up a library to refer to in the future! Each to his own, but to me, an EK sounds a blinking nightmare and even more of a ritual than an HG in its own way!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nah not being defensive , and I'm being objective anout the subjectivity involved in such a bold statement you made , when you haven't tried one of the two combatants

there is not best grinder for everyone

only the best grinder for the person using it

I would not make a judgement on whether the k10 is better or not .

i could try the k10 and find it's better for me , I don't know Til I've tried it .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MrShades said:


> Less retention with the K8 then? Not that I find the K10 retention an issue as once dialled in it hardly needs touching.
> 
> FYI I'm getting a CNC milled dosing cylinder made to help with the extra fluffy K10 grinds... Will put a few pics on here once I have it finished, but it'll be designed to work with the existing portafilter holder. Hopefully will keep all grinds neatly in the PF


I reckon the K8 has about 6 to 7 gms retention, so much netter than the K10. I bought the K8 to compliment the K10 and it does that beautifully. With the K10 as my only grinder, I am missing the chance to try all of the other coffee beans that are out there, as it just is so difficult changing beans with the retention of the k10. If you make a grind adjustment, it is not the next shot that you see the changes from but the one after that.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Nah not being defensive , and I'm being objective anout the subjectivity involved in such a bold statement you made , when you haven't tried one of the two combatants
> 
> there is not best grinder for everyone
> 
> ...


Bootsie, are you really suggesting to me, that you will get an EK and try it out, then pronounce it not as good as you thought and move it on for something else?

I doubt it mate but there again, anything is possible!

I have bought and seen many hyped up things before. I hope it fulfills all of your dreams and not just some of them!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yep

no reason not too, honestly , I would hope I'm reasonably objective and honest about my opinions on stuff

But that it a terribly subjective thing to say

im not matt perger , I'm not sponsored .

and it if it turned out , it wasn't the right grinder for me then that doesn't mean it isn't the right grinder for someone else .

I said before there is only the best grinder for the person that owns it and how it suits their taste and style.

nb your post says edited by me above as I accidentally tacked this on to the end of yours by mistake

I then deleted it. Aplogies


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> yep
> 
> no reason not too, honestly , I would like to think I pretty fair and objective about the opinions I have.
> 
> ...


If I wore a hat, I would take it off and doff it in your direction!........but I would also say keep your feelings quiet and get rid to someone else of a similar like before publishing your findings...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Ah, a defensive Mr Boots this morning then! I said, I think the K10 will beat the EK on espresso and I stand by that. I think the Ek, although not for me, is a fantastic grinder but, why does one grinder have to have at least two burr types and different mechanisms behind them. This would suggest to me, that the true range of the spectrum is too wide for a single burr set to cover, so, do you go brewed or espresso or settle for one which will go from one end to the other in full knowledge that a dedicated burr set will do better......after all, if they did not do better, then why would they exist as an offering?


The turkish burrs use a different grade of metal and have their own CNC machine dedicated to make them . There are also poppy seed and cardamon burrs : )

The grinder has never been produced for a specific purpose.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

My point exactly Gary!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> My point exactly Gary!


Depends what the point is.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Point being a grinder built for spices will not wow at both ends if the coffee range


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

All of this chest puffing might be put to bed when we do side by side evaluations, it is very easy to suggest that the ek43 isn't as good as a k10 fresh at espresso, but let me say this, as someone who owned a few huge conical burr grinders( mbrassilia mc, k10f, mazzer robur and currently the eureka niño) and is the current owner of an ek43, they are different! And are both great in their own way. One is an espresso monster, the k10f, but is crap for single dosing and wastes a shed load of coffee if you choose to change beans, however is capable of magnificent espresso. The EK43 although fairly old har as grinders go, is currently redifining the way a lot of people think about coffee, the espresso is the CLEANEST I has ever tasted, although it lacks mouthfeel. The espresso from my coffee burr set variant is knockout in a different way, plus it will do any other brew methodology in its stride, so which is better? Time will tell!

But keep the dick swinging going as it is really funny


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Point being a grinder built for spices will not wow at both ends if the coffee range


Not sure about that David. I'm using an EK with coffee burrs for pour over and espresso. Burrs have a long way to go before being fully seasoned but I can already detect some interesting results. Last two pour over Chemex brews had TDS values of 1.4% which would, with my previous grinder, have produced a very clogged up taste profile. Previously overcame this by sieving the grinds to take out the fine dust - won't call it fines as I was using a kitchen flour sieve. Thought I would have to do the same with the EK and did so until yesterday when I bunged 31grms into the hopper and got 31grms out. Despite the higher extraction yield - the EK produced the beans' taste notes bang on so the EK is capable of producing a grind spot on for pour over. As for espresso - more later.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I accept that Patrick, but when the dedicated espresso shoot out happens, we will see. I guess it depends on bean choice to a degree but if one set of burrs excels at both ends, why do they have 2?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Time will tell which one you prefer Dave and which one other Dave prefers and which grinder I prefer and which one Patrick prefers

. I don't really care who has which one at at the end of the day it doesn't really matter , if your happy with the coffee it makes and how long. I take to make then why should I ?

I just think it's personal preference . Some people prefer mouthfeel , some clarity , some will compromise on both . Some people, wanna dose . A shoot out I will tell you what the people at that shootout prefer ............ Based on the coffee and machines and barista that makes it .

One will not be best either way , one will be preferred by some people and not by others.....

I am unclear why or how one has to be the best or even could be defined as the best for everyone. Try them if you can form an opinion . Make a choice .

Then my spoon grinder will win all


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Actually one will be better than the other when the tests get done boots


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Actually one will be better than the other when the tests get done boots


One will have been judged better by the people at the test ...

It will be a opinion , a very well judged opinion by people with more expertise and experience than I will ever have and who I respect. It will still be subjective though , It can't be anything other than subjective .

And even then it probably won't be a unanimous decision ( or it might be ) .

And my spoon grinder will still be better .


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I accept that Patrick, but when the dedicated espresso shoot out happens, we will see. I guess it depends on bean choice to a degree but if one set of burrs excels at both ends, why do they have 2?


As coffeechap say, the EK produces a wonderfully clean tasting espresso but body is not as pronounced - especially if you move the grind setting away from the sweetspot which is near zero. Remember, it is the fines present in the puck that determine the body/mouthfeel experience. So, a grinder delivering less fines is bound to have a different body/mouthfeel profile - fines over-extract and provide a bitter note to the shot.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Anyway, back on track! Dave is coming over this week, so as impartial as he is, I look forward to his thoughts!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What we need is more information and ahem, objective data. I've managed to pull (by luck) a couple of shots using Londinium beans and got results, taste-wise, I've not had before and I am well used to Londinium beans. The shots had a definite sweetness to them which I've not experienced in another espresso I've tasted. I want to replicate this and also measure the shots TDS and extraction yields as I am confident the shots in question were way above what any other grinder can achieve, that is above 22%.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> One will have been judged better by the people at the test ...
> 
> It will be a opinion , a very well judged opinion by people with more expertise and experience than I will ever have and who I respect. It will still be subjective though , It can't be anything other than subjective .
> 
> ...


Well the refractometer won't lie for staters, plus the pallet of Glenn is pretty good and the pallets of the others is pretty good and varied so a balanced taste will be achieved fairly objectively.

At the end of the day these tests will also mean bugger all if you go and buy a grinder and then subsequently don't like the shot of coffee YOU get from it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Well the refractometer won't lie for staters, plus the pallet of Glenn is pretty good and the pallets of the others is pretty good and varied so a balanced taste will be achieved fairly objectively.
> 
> At the end of the day these tests will also mean bugger all if you go and buy a grinder and then subsequently don't like the shot of coffee YOU get from it.


And on that we absolutely 100 percent agree


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The two compliment each other nicely, fellow K10 owner........the K8 is easy to make fly adjustments on and ideal for slipping a 250 gm of guest coffee into and getting it at the right levels within a couple of shots. But, the k10, as you will know, clubs everything else into submission. I suspect in a shoot out with the EK and others, on Espresso only, it will win


What I do find interesting is that this thread is about a k8 and k10 of which the OP has both and is certainly best placed to draw comparisons, yet as with a lot of grinder threads right now the EK4 has squeezed its way into this, but not by those who own it but by someone who doesn't (YET)


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Interesting read, the K10 is obviously a beast of a grinder that, apart from in coffee shops, I have never had the pleasure of playing with. It's also interesting for potential purchasers to know that this is quite a difference between the K8 and the K10 and the espresso profile. Sounds like there is a pretty massive rotational speed difference between the two which could lead to less consistent grinds.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> The turkish burrs use a different grade of metal and have their own CNC machine dedicated to make them . There are also poppy seed and cardamon burrs : )
> 
> The grinder has never been produced for a specific purpose.


....you forgot to include linseed


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> As coffeechap say, the EK produces a wonderfully clean tasting espresso but body is not as pronounced - especially if you move the grind setting away from the sweetspot which is near zero. Remember, it is the fines present in the puck that determine the body/mouthfeel experience. So, a grinder delivering less fines is bound to have a different body/mouthfeel profile - fines over-extract and provide a bitter note to the shot.


Traditional grinders = French press

EK=Chemex


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Guilty as charged CC and Apologies to dfk

Was trying to express an opinion on the nature of opinion versus fact versus preference.

Rather than one grinder versus another. I don't think I expressed myself very well no change there then. .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Traditional grinders = French press
> 
> EK=Chemex


Hey, whats this? A coffee-centric take on "Rock, paper, scissors, stone"....?

Grinder grinds beans, French press swallows beans, beans absorb water, water shorts grinder, fines migrate through puck/FP mesh, EK kills fines, Chemex paper gets clogged by fines...lizard kills Spock...

Have I won yet?


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## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> What we need is more information and ahem, objective data. I've managed to pull (by luck) a couple of shots using Londinium beans and got results, taste-wise, I've not had before and I am well used to Londinium beans. The shots had a definite sweetness to them which I've not experienced in another espresso I've tasted. I want to replicate this and also measure the shots TDS and extraction yields as I am confident the shots in question were way above what any other grinder can achieve, that is above 22%.


My experience is similar. Some EK shots above 22% can provide a surprising sweetness that tastes like a half teaspoon of sugar was secretly added.


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## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

I briefly had a K10 Fresh but gave it back in exchange for a K10 dosered model. I probably didn't give the Fresh a long enough trial, but being a long-time doser user, I hated the doserless machine. When the Fresh's timed delivery system overdoses by a gram or more, what are you supposed to do with the excess? Use it anyway? Throw it in the knock box? There's no good place to put it. Plus, I didn't like the plastic main gear on the Fresh, and the electronics seemed like a complication which could lead to expensive parts replacement down the road.









Just an opinion based on short-term trial, though. Flavorwise, I found little difference between the K10 and the Robur. Which is to say the K10 was pretty darn good.


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Until the Fracino price increases at the end of the month, I can do a K10 fresh for £1350 delivered and a K8 for £1150. If you are interested, give me a shout!

Andy


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## vikingboy (Mar 11, 2013)

Why does the Fracino price increase affect Compak's grinder pricing and what are the prices moving to?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

eek thats making the used ones on here look expensive!!


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

coffeebean said:


> Until the Fracino price increases at the end of the month, I can do a K10 fresh for £1350 delivered and a K8 for £1150. If you are interested, give me a shout!
> 
> Andy


What's your price for a brand new Robur?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

he posted on this recently soll, think it was around 1300 for a robur electronic!


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Got to hand it to him, he's competitive on pricing


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

1100 for the kony, which in my opinion is the better grinder.....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

vikingboy said:


> Why does the Fracino price increase affect Compak's grinder pricing and what are the prices moving to?


Fracino sell rebranded Compaks so get the maximum volume discount available


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

£1100 for the Kony and £1500 for the Robur both delivered prices


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## AlexB (Mar 20, 2013)

This has been an interesting read, but I had a question: I tend to single dose and change my beans fairly regularly, and judging from some of the comments that would cause issues with the K10f as opposed to the K8. Should I consider that when factoring in which grinder to go for (I've been contemplating getting a K10f to go with my Quickmill Andreja Premium, as I've been struggling to get decent extractions from lighter roasts with my Vario)?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

AlexB said:


> This has been an interesting read, but I had a question: I tend to single dose and change my beans fairly regularly, and judging from some of the comments that would cause issues with the K10f as opposed to the K8. Should I consider that when factoring in which grinder to go for (I've been contemplating getting a K10f to go with my Quickmill Andreja Premium, as I've been struggling to get decent extractions from lighter roasts with my Vario)?


Absolutely! Due to the retention in the conical, changing beans makes you lose loads when trying to dial in. That is why I run two grinders. The k10 is fantastic when set up. The K8 although I have only had it a short time is a very good, easy to live with grinder as well. Would I have a k8 or a K1o if i was only allowed one.......the K8 wins even though the k10 is better.........consider it to be a high maintenance woman!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Absolutely! Due to the retention in the conical, *changing beans makes you lose loads when trying to dial in. That is why I run two grinders*. The k10 is fantastic when set up. The K8 although I have only had it a short time is a very good, easy to live with grinder as well. Would I have a k8 or a K1o if i was only allowed one.......the K8 wins even though the k10 is better.........consider it to be a high maintenance woman!


Would have been cheaper to get an EK : )


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not want an Ek43. I think they are pig ugly, far too big, and I would rather use mortar and pestle than have one of those things in my house...but, different ships different captains I guess! If EK43's were really the answer, then every barrista without fail would have one, and they do not!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I dont think there is any one grinder which is the answer for every person in coffee, barista, shop owner, homeuser or otherwise.

However the EK does allow single-dosing flexability, cutting costs/waste and opening up the possibility of a variety of single origins and blends to be utilised easily across all brew methods .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> I dont think there is any one grinder which is the answer for every person in coffee, barista, shop owner, homeuser or otherwise.
> 
> However the EK does allow single-dosing flexability, cutting costs/waste and opening up the possibility of a variety of single origins and blends to be utilised easily across all brew methods .


I quite agreee Gary, which as I have said, is why I run two good grinders!


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## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I do not want an Ek43. I think they are pig ugly, far too big, and I would rather use mortar and pestle than have one of those things in my house


Perhaps, but if you believe in "form follows function," then the EK is a thing of beauty indeed.

Have you tried a well-prepared "coffee shot" with an EK? If you had, you might not regard the grinder as so ugly....



dfk41 said:


> If EK43's were really the answer, then every barista without fail would have one, and they do not!


See above. ;-)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Even in 'that copper' colour it still looks badass


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Andy, I do not believe in form follows function. Usually, an ugly woman is still ugly, even with war paint applied etc etc. I am quite happy for those who want to dabble on the scientific side of coffee, to do that as much as they want. me, I do not have that sort of mind though.

Whether you think you can, or whether you think you cannot, you are probably right anyway........


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Andy, I do not believe in form follows function. Usually, an ugly woman is still ugly, even with war paint applied etc etc. I am quite happy for those who want to dabble on the scientific side of coffee, to do that as much as they want. me, I do not have that sort of mind though.
> 
> Whether you think you can, or whether you think you cannot, you are probably right anyway........


Hi Dfk41,

I am always fascinated by people's perceptions (not making any comment as to whether I think you are right/wrong to think what you think, just curious & not critiquing). You know, like if you call the chocolate sandwich biscuits "Burbun" instead of "Boorbon" & folk correct you (as they might for the whiskey).

But I wonder why using grinder brand "A" would be any more/less scientific than brand "B". Isn't espresso itself an intrinsicly technological exercise? I mean you need to generally create pretty specific parameters regarding temp/time/pressure? To simply make a shot at all you need to employ carefully engineered equipment? Just food for thought/thinking out loud....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Andy, I do not believe in form follows function. Usually, an ugly woman is still ugly, even with war paint applied etc etc. .


I find it amusing that you consider a woman to be useful example of something which 'functions'.

However one comparison which holds true - Its whats inside that counts ; )


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Hey baldy, too true.....LOL


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