# barista touch



## Mark7535 (Mar 17, 2018)

Hi there, today I have been trying to get a decent cup of coffee from my machine. i have gone through two bags of fresh coffee, whilst experimenting. I reckon i have had two cups out of the two bags. Ive followed the instruction on screen, grind level etc tamping all that stuff, but they either fill the cup no crema or a measly amount. Some that look just right that are so sour its undrinkable. I have got the extraction to 9 seconds but still, it is vile!

Any help offered would be appreciated!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hello and welcome









You are going to get asked a few questions! What beans are you using for starters?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mark7535 said:


> Hi there, today I have been trying to get a decent cup of coffee from my machine. i have gone through two bags of fresh coffee, whilst experimenting. I reckon i have had two cups out of the two bags. Ive followed the instruction on screen, grind level etc tamping all that stuff, but they either fill the cup no crema or a measly amount. Some that look just right that are so sour its undrinkable. I have got the extraction to 9 seconds but still, it is vile!
> 
> Any help offered would be appreciated!


How is your dose size set? You're too coarse by the sound of it.

Some scales under the cup would be good to give us an idea of what's happening.


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## Mark7535 (Mar 17, 2018)

Thank you for the replies! I first tried has-been El Salvador finca washed bourbon... And now Raw bean mexican finca aurora. The dose size was set by the machine itself. I started at 14 as the machine says and actually gone down to 4 on the grind scale that was probably the worst tasting one!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mark7535 said:


> Thank you for the replies! I first tried has-been El Salvador finca washed bourbon... And now Raw bean mexican finca aurora. The dose size was set by the machine itself. I started at 14 as the machine says and actually gone down to 4 on the grind scale that was probably the worst tasting one!


Scales , you need scales.


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## Mark7535 (Mar 17, 2018)

Ok, I have scales. Do I grind then measure in the handle jobberydoofer? obviously only the coffee grinds minus the weight of the filter?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mark7535 said:


> Ok, I have scales. Do I grind then measure in the handle jobberydoofer? obviously only the coffee grinds minus the weight of the filter?


To help get to tasty you need to measure the dose and the weight of epsresso made.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22879-Beginners-Reading-Weighing-Espresso-Brew-Ratios


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'd suggest you check the fill level in the basket with the razor tool after tamping If that shows it as low increase the grind time until it scrapes a little off. If it scrapes a lot off decrease the time until it removes a little. The desirability of scales to check the actual weight of the dose and the weight of the output will be mentioned but the razor tool can be used to get you going. When you tamp the aim is to fully compress the grounds - erring on the heavy side is a better option than the light side.

There are some extraction times mentioned in the manual. The basic aim of fluid starting to flow around 7 secs or so it mentions from pressing the button doesn't sound to bad for a starter. If shorter grind finer, if longer grind coarser. However messing with that time via altering the grind setting is one method of controlling taste. The manual also mentions the "ideal" volumes out but that is also a matter of taste.

Really need more info though, what drink are you making and it's size and which basket you are using etc but not much point until YOU get control of the machine as above. There is only one Sage machine I am aware of that will dose correctly and that is the Oracle which actually weighs the grinds Tamps them too. The Barista's don't they just provide a timed grind and setting the time up for a set output will take several goes. It will also need changing each time the grinder setting is changed. Again I would suggest you deliberately set for a bit too much coffee and then razor it off.

John

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Mark7535 said:


> Thank you for the replies! I first tried has-been El Salvador finca washed bourbon... And now Raw bean mexican finca aurora. The dose size was set by the machine itself. I started at 14 as the machine says and actually gone down to 4 on the grind scale that was probably the worst tasting one!


As well as other all the other good advice you have been given may I suggest you get something widely known and used, a reliably 'easy' bean. Depending on what you like (very basically fruity v chocolate/nutty) then maybe Foundry Rocky Mountain, say, or look at a blend from Rave or Coffee Compass. Reading through the threads on here (what's in your cup, 12 roaster challenge, and such like) may help you understand what I mean.

Some of the HasBean beans can be 'difficult' until you get going. And I haven't heard of Raw.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Whoops - forgot to mention. So you have flow starting at around the correct time. Then try making your drink with shot durations of say 15, 25 and 35 secs. You should detect a change in taste.

Generally the longer it takes for flow to start the stronger the shot will be so that is one of the tuning to suite taste factors. As beans vary it's not easy to say what effect changes will have but generally some setting combination of grind, shot time will give beans the taste they should have. Some would say output as well but the grind and the shot time will set that.

John

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## Mark7535 (Mar 17, 2018)

Many thanks for your advice thus far!

So, i dont have the 0.1g scales yet, but I weighed it today.

#11 grind @16 seconds yielded 20g of grounds post tamp.

the brew came out at 6 seconds and weighed 74g.


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## SimonN (Feb 4, 2016)

Mark7535 said:


> Many thanks for your advice thus far!
> 
> So, i dont have the 0.1g scales yet, but I weighed it today.
> 
> ...


Mark,

A few comments - 74g out sounds quite high, I would have expected more like 40-50g (as a starting point). How long did the pour take (from pressing the button)? If it was around 30 seconds I would try grinding finer so that you get less output in the same time. Don't worry about when the first drops appear. If your shot is taking, say, 45 seconds you need to stop it shorter.

But most importantly, what does the shot taste like? Bitter? Sour?

Simon


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## Mark7535 (Mar 17, 2018)

It lasted 30 seconds. It tasted a bit sour if i am honest


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Grind a little finer & stop the shot so you end up with 80g (from 20g dose) in the cup.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

20g off coffee in a " double basket " seems alot btw.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> 20g off coffee in a " double basket " seems alot btw.


Not for Sage!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Not for Sage!


I think may be too much as well on their small diameter baskets - that's why I suggested using the razor. The weight that leaves can then be used as a guide. Generally the razor tool will leave sufficient space for the grounds to fully expand. If there isn't enough space it can result in a coarser than ideal grind being used = unbalanced extraction. A bit on the low side is a better option. That can be read from the puck and how it knocks out.








Note for dfk - Has to be said though that it may not leave enough space for MM and overfilling with that can really mess that one up.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> I think may be too much as well on their small diameter baskets - that's why I suggested using the razor. The weight that leaves can then be used as a guide. Generally the razor tool will leave sufficient space for the grounds to fully expand. If there isn't enough space it can result in a coarser than ideal grind being used = unbalanced extraction.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They take 20g of a medium roast coffee.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> They take 20g of a medium roast coffee.


Well that's great then.

John

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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

If it helps, on my Oracle Touch I'm normally using a grind of about 25-27, extraction of 30s and that gives me about 50g of output


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

TobyAnscombe said:


> If it helps, on my Oracle Touch I'm normally using a grind of about 25-27, extraction of 30s and that gives me about 50g of output


I think that the Barista Touch uses Sage's smaller sized filter baskets, 54mm rather than 58. All of Sage's grinders built in or otherwise appear to use the same burrs and very probably the same internal arrangement but the visible adjustment mechanism differs. The BT uses the same arrangement as my BE - a thumb wheel on the side that gives a reduced range of adjustments compared with their separate grinders - it's said to be restricted to what espresso is likely to need. The separate griinders will do all methods. The Oracles probably offer a restricted range as well but the setting numbers are unlikely to relate.

On my BE a setting of 8 gave a fairly coarse espresso grind and I usually found myself working finer than that - until it appears to have broken somewhere.







I will be having another go at sorting that out with Sage shortly. Not their problem but mine. I didn't want to call an engineer out and find it's not faulty. I'm more sure it is now.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TobyAnscombe said:


> If it helps, on my Oracle Touch I'm normally using a grind of about 25-27, extraction of 30s and that gives me about 50g of output


That will be a reflection of the type of coffee and its freshness, it isn't always directly convertible


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