# Electrical Competence



## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Hi Everyone

Quick question - Are there any rules on how much electrical advice we give forum members?

I have serious concerns about the electrical competence of some of the receivers of that advice - Is there any possibility of liability for advice given?

I've ducked out of a conversation recently as I thought the situation was getting dangerous

I'm happy with a lot of the component changing as a lot of them are easy but I'm talking about fault finding and wiring issues

The last thing I want is to do is stop people enjoying having an enjoyable hobby but it in my day job we wouldn't give out electrical information to people whose competence is unknown

You can usually spot these people as they change parts without knowing why they're doing it

Interesting to hear people's views


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think always try to cover yourself even with the simpler tasks, even if your sure, it's always best to say something like below.

P.S. Of course always consult a trained electrician if you are unsure

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55358-running-dalian-amazon-off-extension-lead/?do=embed&comment=785608&embedComment=785608&embedDo=findComment

In the above post I was careful not to tell people how to rewire a plug or socket, just gave them links to the standard components to make one up. If they need more information than that, I take the view they may not be competent. It's a really tricky one......I might happily work on a machine and adjust brew pressure while it's on but I would advise people to switch off and unplug it each time they adjust brew pressure.

Even with the utmost care I sometimes wonder whether I should have advised someone or not....


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

I know how you feel, and on that particular topic I felt that I had two options, post a "stop what you are doing and walk away" (can come across in the wrong way), or try and guide the person towards the less dangerous option. The others I ruled out were "go and hand it to a service technician" (I didn't think that was what the poster was likely to do) and simply not post at all (which leaves it open to the person not realising anything is wrong). It was a close run thing on the two that felt were open to me.

I tried to explain why the current solution was dangerous, but give some help at avoiding the danger.

I'd be interested on what thoughts are, is it best to only post the warning aspect?


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## ronan08 (Dec 21, 2019)

Great topic, I feel people dont have enough respect for how dangerous electricity is. As a receiver of a lot of electrical advice I often find it difficult (to say the least) to grasp what's going on. I can only imagine what it's like handing out advice on electronics, let's say its risky business so if someone giving you advice tells you to contact a professional, for their mental wellbeing alone you should


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

AndyDClements said:


> I know how you feel, and on that particular topic I felt that I had two options, post a "stop what you are doing and walk away" (can come across in the wrong way), or try and guide the person towards the less dangerous option. The others I ruled out were "go and hand it to a service technician" (I didn't think that was what the poster was likely to do) and simply not post at all (which leaves it open to the person not realising anything is wrong). It was a close run thing on the two that felt were open to me.
> 
> I tried to explain why the current solution was dangerous, but give some help at avoiding the danger.
> 
> I'd be interested on what thoughts are, is it best to only post the warning aspect?


 @AndyDClements I think both yourself and @DavecUK make great points indeed most answers on that post were very well informed

There is a way of warning and keeping the posts friendly and yours was excellent

This isn't work for me but being in the Technical side of Appliances tears at me when I see people working in a dangerous way


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## travellingkiwi (Apr 7, 2017)

Great question.

I've been taking apart 240V equipment since I was about 10. It needs respect or it bites (I learnt the unplug it yourself rule the hard way). I had more shocks than I can count (With no ill effects), but I know people whose hearts stopped on their first one. You never know.

At the end of the day though it's their choice. They'd probably take it apart without guidance anyway. And at least you get to give them the advice that they really really do need to be careful. And never work on a plugged in appliance.

Rule#1 unplug it yourself before doing anything else.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Good points @travellingkiwi
When I recently stripped down a Gaggia Classic completely I took advice from many threads on here so knew boiler elements could be an issue

It was my Insulation Test and Earth Continuity Test that told me it was okay to press that rocker switch - it was not just down to good luck

Advice on removing the Earth to dry out elements although it works, in the wrong hands could kill someone


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## Rocketman007 (Oct 21, 2020)

travellingkiwi said:


> Great question.
> 
> I've been taking apart 240V equipment since I was about 10. It needs respect or it bites (I learnt the unplug it yourself rule the hard way). I had more shocks than I can count (With no ill effects), but I know people whose hearts stopped on their first one. You never know.
> 
> ...


 I tried to kill myself at 10 years as well, you live and learn&#8230;.. In this day and age you have to cover yourself though&#8230;.. A grateful person can turn, I speak from experience.

I reckon to have broken more than I fixed in the early days&#8230;.. as did all my friends who became engineers


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

If you go on any internet forum and take advice without checking its validity independently, you deserve everything you get. Those who've been on since the beginning of the web know this. Those that don't don't. Natural selection in action.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

This is a catch 22 situation. As @travellingkiwi said, they are just as likely to take it apart anyway. What horrify's me the most is when they also say, I've not got any electrical knowledge and i'm not good technically, but they still want to tinker. So knowing that they might tinker anyway, do you ignore the question and when they have an accident, how do you feel knowing you could have given them advice that might have prevented them hurting themselves. I believe that its best to advise but with lots of caveats in place.

The advice that I would give would be

Its is a fundamental principal that Live testing should not be carried out. Therefore test everything you can with the machine isolated and unplugged.

If you have to test live, make sure that you have circuit diagram available and have identified all the live points.

Always assume any wire/connection is live until proved otherwise.

Always use test equipment and leads that conforms to GS38 (NO CHINESE MULTIMETERS FROM AMAZON ETC).

Never put your fingers deep into the machine. (live wires/connections do exist at the top of machines).

If you can't follow the above advice, or your'e unsure, or your'e not confident at this point don't switch it on, let somebody who is competent look at it.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Uncletits said:


> Advice on *removing the Earth to dry out elements although it works*...


 😕 ...i'm not quite sure what your saying....i maybe reading into this the wrong way (for which i apologise upfront).


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Rumpelstiltskin - Assume he means disconnect the earth so it doesn't trip your RCD because of water ingress, but the element still heats up so dries out the water from inside it. After it has dried switch it off and reconnect the earth.

Would not be an option for me as it is a bit dodgy, my preference is definitely to just wait a few more days or use a hot air gun with it outside the machine.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Rumpelstiltskin - Assume he means disconnect the earth so it doesn't trip your RCD because of water ingress, but the element still heats up so dries out the water from inside it. After it has dried switch it off and reconnect the earth.
> 
> Would not be an option for me as it is a bit dodgy, my preference is definitely to just wait a few more days or use a hot air gun with it outside the machine.


 Yes and if you read threads about this, it is being advised as the thing to do

If anyone touched the casing! I also used the hot air gun but didn't turn it on until my Megger said it was safe


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Nightrider_1uk said:


> This is a catch 22 situation. As @travellingkiwi said, they are just as likely to take it apart anyway. What horrify's me the most is when they also say, I've not got any electrical knowledge and i'm not good technically, but they still want to tinker. So knowing that they might tinker anyway, do you ignore the question and when they have an accident, how do you feel knowing you could have given them advice that might have prevented them hurting themselves. I believe that its best to advise but with lots of caveats in place.
> 
> The advice that I would give would be
> 
> ...


 Excellent points


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Uncletits said:


> Yes and if you read threads about this, it is being advised as the thing to do


 :classic_ohmy: WOW ....can't say as i've come across that "advice" yet (on here); but when i do i won't hold my tongue like OP decided to do....i can see why you ducked out of the conversation. I'm sure (but i could be wrong) if advice like that was given on an American site you'd be sued/have-your-arse-handed-to-you-on-a-plate....UK is different i know.

Up until Rona crashed everyones party i taught Electronics and SAFETY was continuously rammed home from day 1.

IMO what people do in their own home is their choice; but what people "*advise*" on a public web-page/forum/other *could end up being lethal*....e.g. Joe Bloggs gets side-tracked, forgets to re-attach the Earth and then replaces appliance cover to an item/mains-plug top (Earth not re-attached)...it doesn't bear thinking about.

The sad thing about "advice" is that some follow it to the letter whilst some don't or misinterpret said advice.

Thanks @Northern_Monkeyfor the clarification; i didn't want to be (or come across as) rude to the OP over grammar/wording/me getting wrong end of stick.


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