# Rancilio Silvia Questions



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Hi Guys, I'm quite new to all this to please bear with me. Albeit I'm learning very fast and producing very good results.

I am now the proud owner of a Silvia v2 which I received only last Thursday.

I have been turning it on getting the orange light, waiting for it to go out then grinding my coffee to aim for the 30secs after light goes out (as I heard that's optimum brewing temp) HOWEVER!... just now, I have just installed a new gasket and shower screen (also added a shim much to my regret as now the handle is VERY tight and doesn't even reach the 90deg... although no more leaking water and seems to be running beautifully... is this ok?)

I also used the time to do a full backflush and soak in caffiza my portafilter.

However after all the backflushing I realised that the machine had been on for a good 30mins and when I did my last discarded espresso shot it came out with the most beautiful shot ever with LOTS of guinness head on top. I even was disgusting and couldnt resist temptation to taste a sip and it was PERFECT!

Questions

1) How long do you wait after first turn on from cold to brew your shot?

2) Will the handle loosen up over time or should I seek to change gasket again and not insert shim?


----------



## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Hi Poona

Sounds like you have been using the machine before it has warmed up fully (by that I mean the entire machine warmed up, not just waiting for the water to heat.)

I recommend leaving the machine on for 20-30mins before using it.

As for the group seal being tight, it is normal for that to be the case when first replaced and usually eases up through use. As long as you're not getting leaks then I wouldn't worry about it unless you're finding the handle difficult to lock in, in which case I'd remove the shim.

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Oh heck! I've been making an espresso after a few mins from the machine like you assumed. Whats the maximum the machine can left on for? As I only get an hour lunch and wouldn't have time to let the machine warm up for 30 mins by time I get home and back.

Also - Can I use the same gasket if I've removed it with an Awl (as it will make a small puncture in it)


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Welcome Poona

Good choice of machine, and it can be left on for a few hours no trouble at all.

Best to wait for 20+ minutes before pulling your shot.

Have you considered a plug timer to switch on to be ready when you get home?

The portafilter will lock in snugly at first and will not be at 90 degrees from the start. Over time as the gasket settles in you will be able to move the handle around further.

Lastly, be careful about being tempted to taste a good looking cleaning shot. Chemicals can cause stomach upsets quite easily.


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Plug with a timer is an idea I hadn't thought of, very good one too!

It prob only turns about 35-40deg but it seals well and doesn't leak. Perhaps I'll leave it then as I'm afraid of removing it with the Awl pick only to find I've ruined it and have no replacement.

Yeah was a bit silly re taste test but was only a sip







I should know better working in the medical field haha.


----------



## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

One slight warning about using a plug-in timer... Make sure only the power switch is on, I know it's not easy to knock the others on or anything, but if the machine turned on with the pump on it would empty the water tank and potentially damage the (then empty) boiler. Even being left with the steam switch on could cause some nasties. Sorry if this is teaching egg-sucking, but best it's said!!


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Good point but yeah I'm not sure I'll go down timer route as I work shifts and my breaks are quite sporadic at best of times.

So you think best not to remove gasket with Awl and use same gasket? (which is new)


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

You should be ok to re-use the gasket, if you look at the old one you will notice it has notches cut at intervals around its edge, if you locate and slide the Awl into one of those notches on the new gasket you can lever it out without causing any damage.

How far round are you able to crank the handle though? As long as it's far enough to be fully secure and if you're getting a good seal then I wouldn't worry too much.

As long as the boiler is full you can keep the Silvia on for hours, sometimes I will use mine all day without any problems. Though I would never recommend leaving her switched on unattended just for the fire risk should something go horribly wrong.

As far as how long before pulling first shots, the Silvias temperature doesn't fully stabilise for 45mins but If you run a cup or so of water through (keeping the portafilter locked in) every 10mins you can have reasonable temp stability after 25-30mins, Silvias components are solid brass which is great for heat retention/stability but takes a long time for it all to heat up.


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks guys for all the informative responses. I've just waited for 25mins for my first shot and have to say, the difference was incredible. It's turned her into a crema monster and I'm getting a real nice guinness head on my shots now.

Still playing around the grind setting and tamping pressure. All seems very subjective and not consistent.


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Are you weighing your doses? Are you timing your shots and measuring output? What beans are you using and how long past roast are they? Are you temperature surfing with Silvia? These are just some of the controllable variables that will have massive impact on the flavour of your shots. Some variables are less controllable, ie the quality of grind that your grinder will throw out, what grinder are you using by the way?

Your tamp will actually have very little impact on extraction time but a heavy tamp will leave the puck more susceptible to cracking and channelling under brew pressure, resulting in premature blonding, uneven extraction, all translating to a shot fit only for the sink!(of course if this does happen then i suppose you could say that tamp does affect extraction time but I don't count it as proper extraction)

I won't go any deeper than this for now as I don't want to bombard you with information when you are just finding your feet!


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm using an Iberital MC2 doserless model grinder.

I'm waiting 20-30mins for the Silvia to heat up but I'm not 'surfing' before I brew? I thought I didn't need to surf if I had already waited the 20mins?

I'm timing my shots to hit the 2oz mark on the espresso shot glass @ 25 seconds when blonding starts.

I'm not weighing my shots (should I be?) I'm just grinding 'til I get a small mound then wiping excess to a flat plane with my finger.. I assumed this to be close to normal?

I'm using a MOTTA tamper with convex base and tamping as evenly as I can with a few twists for polishing. Sometimes I don't get an even tamp and one shot glasses fills slightly quicker than the other but not hugely so.

I'm using Italian beans by Happy Donkey which are freshly roasted afaik.


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

It all depends on what you want to get out of your coffee at this stage, if you are quite content with it then while temp surfing is simple and a very good idea(Silvias temp range on the thermostat is so wide that you can go from burning your coffee right down to poor extraction by too low a temperature within it) Everything else you are doing is fine if you are happy with mixed results and don't mind the beans you are using.

If however you want to start gaining consistency, pushing boundries and exploring deeper into what can be achieved with coffee, there is alot that can be learned and we on the forum will be glad to help.

If you take the blue pill, you will wake up in your bed and this is as far as the story goes.. If you take the red pill, we will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes and help guide you on your coffee journey!


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

I have just overdosed on red pills, I am an information sponge and very keen to learn!

Tell me how I should next brew my shot and I shall do it exactly like you say and will report back with my results!

Thanks for your infos by the way,


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

HaHa!! It's not quite so simple, there is also a great deal of finding out what you personally like from your coffee and educating and calibrating your palate.

I can however give you some ropes and a map and some good baselines from which you will be able to go forth and experiment.

Do you have a set of very accurate digital scales? one that measures to the tenth of the gram being the bare minimum you will need, to the hundredth being the ideal. .2 of a gram in either direction from your target dose can affect the extraction time by as much as 5or6 seconds, so a high level of precision is required for properly dialling in and achieving good shot consistency.

Second of all you will want to source some top quality beans.

This is one of the most complicated things I can think of to actually help you with as I don't know what you like, I can however say what I think is one of the safest bets I could make. http://shop.extractcoffee.co.uk/product/original-espresso This stuff would be an excellent place to start, only in my opinion of course, there is a whole world of incredible coffee out there but as a truly delicious yet fairly neutral(in that there is nothing not to like about it!) way, I would see this as the perfect foot in the door of specialty espresso coffee. It is also nice and forgiving to work with and amazing in a flat white or cappuccino.

I must say you have done well with your set up, the Silvia is a top machine and the MC2 is a perfectly capable grinder so no worries there!

With Temperature surfing the Silvia, there are alot of guides on youtube(Kat & Gail of Seattle Coffee Gear, who you may have come across before, make some brilliant beyond brilliant videos on all things coffee, they are great fun and as a brand new coffee enthusiast many of their vids can be extremely useful for picking up skills, some of their ways of doing things are a little dated if you will but mostly very good and it's all in good humour. They also love the Silvia and have lots of videos on everything from Temp Surfing to shot comparisons to descaling and maintainance)

I will quickly go through temperature surfing though just to get you going but watching videos is a great way to compound the information.

First, stick a milk jug under the group and flick on the brew switch until the boiler light comes on, then stick whatever you are pulling your shot into under and flick on the brew switch again to preheat your cup(If its a Cappu/Flat White cup etc it doesn't need to be full, just around the volume of your shot)

Hover a finger over your timer and start it the second the light switches off

Discard the vessels pre-heating water and then lock in your portafilter after 20sec so that by the time you hit 40seconds you are ready to hit brew.

That was temperature surfing!

Now some tips on prepping and pulling your shots..

I'm going to say that for me the ideal baseline for my dose is 18g, this gives me a good place to start my dialling in process.

I will start by drying out my basket with a clean towel designated for this purpose, popping out the basket and then losely putting the empty portafilter back in the machines group to keep hot and out of the way, while putting the basket on the scales to tare.

Grind exactly 18g to the decimal in the basket and lightly place it back in the portafilter, I use my thumb to go round the basket rim and knock in any grinds that are sat on the edge before I properly clip it into the Portafilter.

I then give it a couple of gentle taps on the side with the palm of my hand to get the grinds sat fairly level(you have a doserless grinder which is renowned for clumping so you might want to get a paperclip or fork to stir the grinds and break up the clumps first)

Your tamp is like your fingerprint and everyones is different but I like to just tamp until the puck just feels firm and no more and then a quick twist to polish and im done(making sure I'm perfectly level all the way round of course)

Remember Coffee rapidly begins to go stale the moment it is ground so you want to be aiming to have this all done within 30 seconds if possible and with a bit of practice you can simultaneously temp surf so that the coffee doesn't have to wait around going stale for your machine to be ready!

Zero the timer when it has surfed and reached 'brew time'(40sec which translates to about 92-93c at the brew head) and hit the brew switch and timer at the same time.

The extraction time and output volume are the parts that are all down to the coffee you are using and your own tastes but one good way to start and get dialled in would be, keeping the 18g dose every time, adjust your grinder until your shots(presuming you are using a regular spouted portafilter) pour smooth and gently like honey from each spout and cut the brew when when you reach your target time(say you start with a target of 27sec)then taste the shot, If you are not happy with it, try a different target time keeping everything else the same, if you have gone right from say 24-35 seconds, pick the time where the shot was most acceptable and alter the grind while keeping the time the same but with the grind adjusting extraction by output volume within that time, or you can then alter your dose(when altering dose it is good to go by .1 or .2 of a gram at a time as even these minute alterations will have a large impact) etc *making sure you are only playing with one variable at a time* until you find a combo that you like. Some say go by when the shot blondes and this is a good rule of thumb but some coffees actually want to run into blonding a little to get the best from them and some the opposite. Just make sure you are really tasting your shots as you can pull something seemingly perfect that might taste aweful or something that looked all wrong but tastes amazing.

These are only some basic methods to get you going in the right direction and are in no way definitive, so keep watching videos, chatting to as many people as possible and experimenting as much as possible, keep trying different high quality espresso blends and even single origins and you will soon get a feel and start picking up the silky barista skills and develop your eye and palate for coffee! Keep posting on the forum and ask about anything and everything.


----------



## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

That is 'top quality' advice. I wish I had that info when I first started with my Silvia many moons ago:good:


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Blimey, I can't thank you enough for taking the time and effort into composing that post. It's a wealth of information that I will endeavor to consume. My first port of call now is to buy a set of scales. I've been using the stopwatch on my iphone but I will probably buy a little cheap digital timer that I can stick to the machine. I have came across Kat and Gail and yeah they even did a little latte art vid using the silvia which was great to watch.

I have already backflushed and changed the gasket and soaked all the components in caffiza so it's all in good condition. Now to try this method out once I get a set of scales.

I will report back with progress

Graham


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Okay have made two cappos with temp surfing.. Have to say, it now appears my grind setting was waaay off and instead of pulling shots at 25 secs, they were coming out at around 19secs. Have now adjusted my grind finer and will see how it fares. Can't believe the difference! The taste is different too, and I'm not getting the water on top of the coffee grind/puck after extraction.

Have ordered scales and a timer so I don't need to keep using my iphone. Progress has been made thanks to your advice.


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wicked, I look forward to hearing your progress









My scales died yesterday and I just ordered a new set, I went for these http://www.ourweigh.co.uk/pocket-mini-scales/on-balance-100g-touchscreen-scale-ds-100.html I had the Truweigh 2 100 x 0.01 before which are good little scales but I fancied a change so I didn't use the 3year guarantee! These guys are a little cheaper than mine and would be perfect http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Pocket-Scales-%28200g-%7B47%7D-0.01g%29.html

For a timer, any cheap little thing will be just fine but If you want a little bling for your bar then these are pretty cool http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/Shot-Timer.html plus you could combine the order with the scales and maybe throw in a bag of coffee too


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Sorry, ignore the past post i started writing it ages ago then stopped for a sandwich and a coffee and finished writing!


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Thats great to hear you are making progress already, I'm really pleased.

You will also discover the effects of atmospheric changes to the way the coffee behaves, you can get all dialled in and be pulling great shots and then the humidity or temperature or atmospheric pressure will change a little and you have to dial in all over again! You'll get used to it though and will develop an instinct on how much and what to adjust so it will only be a case of one minor grind adjustment and you're back in the game!


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

ronsil said:


> That is 'top quality' advice. I wish I had that info when I first started with my Silvia many moons ago:good:


Here here. Probably much like you, I had my Silvia before there were Internet coffee forums. I had no idea why sone shots were great and some were shocking. I can't remember but I'm guessing my dosing was pretty consistent as I found it was the temperature variance that really caused the problems. I only realised to what extent when I got the temperature fluctuations under control with a PID


----------



## Caaaallum (Aug 5, 2012)

I just want to say thanks for all this info, it's probably the first of a whole load of reading i'll have to do to make the most of my machine!


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Just want to say a huge thank you to all the guys on here who have given me advice. The measuring 18g on the scales has been a blessing! Also waiting for the machine to warm up after 30mins is sooo much better too!!

So after a month (since 19/7/2012) I am making reaalllllyy nice espressos and this is my latest attempt of latte art!! (not bad after only 4 weeks? - you will probably think it's rubbish and laugh)


----------



## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

poona said:


> So after a month (since 19/7/2012) I am making reaalllllyy nice espressos and this is my latest attempt of latte art!! (not bad after only 4 weeks? - you will probably think it's rubbish and laugh)
> 
> View attachment 1505


A lot better than most of my "attempts" lol







Mine are so bad the photo's don't get approved for public viewing









Glad you are enjoying the machine - Miss Silvia can produce some fantastic results.


----------

