# How financially successful can an independent coffee house be?



## ahoythere48

Hello all,

I am currently researching what a popular, well-regarded independent coffee house could financially net? I appreciate there are a huge amount of variables starting with rent and business rates. But how many cups of coffee does a successful coffee shop sell per day and how many of these customers would buy a cake or something to eat? I appreciate Allegra strategies are the people to speak to and one can do a profit and loss account and reach a maximum Gross & Net profit figure. But has anyone heard what a successful coffee shop turns over and profits? Any advice welcome. Thank you in advance.


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## MikeHag

Good luck finding a reliable secondary data source ... sincerely! My advice (and I'm now having to follow this advice myself!) is to forget searching for documented data, and instead start asking yourself specific questions... "how many cups" is the right sort of question... "how many eat cake" is another, so you already have the right idea...then get out into lots of cafes with a notepad and pen and start counting. You won't get a feel for profit, but you'll get a feel for what works and what doesn't.

You could download accounts from Companies House, but personally I don't think that's a good option because (a) many independents are not limited companies and (b) without knowing the details behind the annual report, it doesn't tell you enough for you to make decisions.

Networking may be a good way to get the data... one day you will become friendly with someone who's been there, a cafe owner perhaps, or a coffee consultant, who knows the answers. I'm building my network and attending events like Caffe Culture in May and hopefully it will help me...consider getting yourself a ticket.

The data isn't available off the shelf. Well, not off the cheap shelf anyway! People either don't capture it or don't share it, which unfortunately means we need to invest time and effort to accumulate it ourselves. Ultimately I think you and I and the other prospective startups just need to reach a point where we've done our due diligence as far as we've been able, even if sometimes it's not as bullet-proof or empirical as we'd like.

Happy hunting.


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## ahoythere48

Many thanks MikeHag for your response and views. I really appreciate the reply. I think you are bang on the mark that one needs to just get out there and gather first hand info. By counting the amount of coffee's/food sold in different coffee house's would certainly be comforting to actually have a definitive, proven number at the end of the day which has not been created through approximating. However i did hear Flat White in Soho sold 700 coffee's a day. So that was of interest and i hope will be of interest to you.

All the best and keep in touch if you have anything of interest on this research game.


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## MikeHag

700 sounds like a lot. The average figure I've heard several times is around 250, or 3kg per day. But a soho place is likely to be open 12 hours a day, which would help of course. And with Soho rents and rates, they'll need all the help they can get


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## DomesticEspresso

Always, the basis for a cafe that is going to work is that it has to be in a good central location with a strong foot fold. You could put thousands into a cafe to make it look awsome and have the best coffee and best barista trained staff but if your in the wrong place which can be just a few feet from the main hustle and bustle, it just wont work! I don't know how many cafes we have opened for customers only to be closed down or changed into something else within the 1st year and all because they were in the wrong location. Also the style of cafe to the surroundings can be crucial also. Good luck.

Dave


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## ahoythere48

Many thanks Dave. Appreciate your advise and yep i'm learning the old cliche Location, Location, Location seems to be vital when it comes to positioning of a coffee house.


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