# Getting the maximum sweetness out of an aeropress?



## jkb89

Anyone got any methods to yield the best sweetness out of a bean? I've just ordered some Yirgs from HasBean but want to try and aim for a really funky sweet brew - any tips?

Cheers,

Joe.


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## garydyke1

Use the best water you can to start with .

Try a dose of 13g , pretty fine grind ..leave it to steep for a long long time.


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## jkb89

How long is a long long time gary? Will try one now!


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## garydyke1

try 30 mins to start


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## jkb89

30 mins?? Wow! Ok.... I'll give it a shot...


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## The Systemic Kid

Long brewing takes the extraction yield up to 24-25% and, as a result, can pull the sweetness out of the brew. Works the same when long brewing cafetiere, Sowden and other immersion brewers.


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## fluffles

The Systemic Kid said:


> Long brewing takes the extraction yield up to 24-25% and, as a result, can pull the sweetness out of the brew. Works the same when long brewing cafetiere, Sowden and other immersion brewers.


For me it seems to lose acidity which I like in a brewed coffee


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## The Systemic Kid

With higher yields the sweetness balances the acidity rather than getting rid of it.


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## jkb89

Had a go guys, could only manage 15 mins before the temp dropped too much. I've got nothing that'll insulate it to drag the brewing time out a bit longer :-( its too tall to fit in my tea cosy... Can I start off a bit hotter? I started it at approx 80oC but if I can push that up it'll last a bit longer.... Doesn't seem any discernable difference from my 1min brew in the 15 min one :-(


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## MWJB

Start at ~97C in the kettle.


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## Mrboots2u

80 degrees won't be pushing the extraction along very quickly


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## johnealey

Start in the 90's and wrap a tea towel round it which should help. Sorry can't be more specific on the start temp been a long time since done this on an aeropress / don't know the bean ( am sure Gary will offer up a good start temp).

Then, crucially, leave it alone for 30-35 minutes, have a look in the brewed section for comment on long steep sowdens / clevers for any further tips (which you could do whilst it merrily brewing away  )

Hope of help

John


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## Doozerless

A saucer to cover the top of the aeropress does the job for me. I've done 30 min steeps and it's still hot.


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## bronc

30 mins in the Clever got me from 95-96*C to 55-56*C which was still plenty hot to drink right away.


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## garydyke1

Start as high a temp as possible. If its too cold after 30 mins you must be in Jeebsy's kitchen


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## lawriemiller

I've always sworn by the recipe of 19g - 265g of water...Non inverted. It's quite a high dose and just really hits you in the face with a great body. Especially with a hasbean Yirgs this should give you lots of flavour:

19g - 265g

50g pre infusion for 30 secs and a good stir.

Poor up to 265g (it should be pretty much right at the top of the aeropress) and give it another stir.

Fit the plunger on the top to stop any dripping through the bottom of the aeropress and also keep the temp in.

At 1:30 plunge for 30 secs. Alter the grind around this recipe keeping it as strict as possible. usually quite fine as 1:30 is quite a short brew time.

Let me know how it goes,

Lawrie


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## Obsy

Just followed Gary's suggestion of a long, long steep with a fine grind. Wow, it makes such a difference. Admittedly I wrapped it in a tea towel and forgot about it for 50 mins but result was a cup of tasty coffee at 47c, warm enough to slurp and enjoy immediately . So much more taste from these beans than my usual aeropress and they taste sweeter. Thanks @garydyke1. What water would you suggest buying to help even further? Nearest Waitrose is 90 min round drive


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## garydyke1

Obsy said:


> Just followed Gary's suggestion of a long, long steep with a fine grind. Wow, it makes such a difference. Admittedly I wrapped it in a tea towel and forgot about it for 50 mins but result was a cup of tasty coffee at 47c, warm enough to slurp and enjoy immediately . So much more taste from these beans than my usual aeropress and they taste sweeter. Thanks @garydyke1. What water would you suggest buying to help even further? Nearest Waitrose is 90 min round drive


just look for ones with a fair amount of calcium and magnesium , hopefully not too much bicarb


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## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Use the best water you can to start with .
> 
> Try a dose of 13g , pretty fine grind ..leave it to steep for a long long time.


I'm guessing using an inverted steep.

Grind in first?

Don't stir?


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## Lefteye

I've been trying this for about a week now and it's great really brings new flavours to the table. I still bloom and stir for thirty secs then top up to near the top and stir again a few times. Wrap in a towel and wait for 30 mins brilliant. I'll try the next without a bloom and stir and see if it's different.


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## Lefteye

I'm then gonna muck with the grind to see where I get the best taste for me.


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## garydyke1

urbanbumpkin said:


> I'm guessing using an inverted steep.
> 
> Grind in first?
> 
> Don't stir?


i stirred with the pour, if that makes sense. Then flipped it before plunging , which again agitates . But play around and see what works for you


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## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> i stirred with the pour, if that makes sense. Then flipped it before plunging , which again agitates . But play around and see what works for you


Cheers Gary, always good to know starting point.

I tried a Sowdens today at work using a thermometer. I got stuck on a call and before I knew it it had dropped to 50c and had been steeping for over an hour. Tasted amazingly sweet, all be it on the cool side.

As I'm away next month I'm looking to see what I can do with an aeropress for long brew.


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## fluffles

I'm going to give this another go. Anyone have a vague starting point for grind on hausgrind? 13g with 250g water? What's the target EY?


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## jlarkin

fluffles said:


> a vague starting point for grind on hausgrind? 13g with 250g water? What's the target EY?


At a guess, 1.4 on the Haus?


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## garydyke1

fluffles said:


> I'm going to give this another go. Anyone have a vague starting point for grind on hausgrind? 13g with 250g water? What's the target EY?


Aim for 21-24% EY.

That said Ive had some lovely cups from 19.5-20% with the EK


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## fluffles

Thanks. Just one question - I routinely get 21-22% extraction with a 1 minute aeropress. Is there something different about this sort of extraction that has steeped for a long time?


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## garydyke1

fluffles said:


> Thanks. Just one question - I routinely get 21-22% extraction with a 1 minute aeropress. Is there something different about this sort of extraction that has steeped for a long time?


The idea is to push much higher than usual but theres a little more to it.

But i find xx% short steep lots of agitation isn't the same as xx% with long steep low agitation , its sweeter with more clarity


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## Lefteye

Tried tightening the grind today on my porlex 2 notches now coarse sand. Nothin else changed in the process but the end cup had less complexity and had lost some of the vineous qualities of the coarser grind. Back to the old for me.


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## risky

I'm going to try the long steep times, the short time recipes always seem to taste so 'weak' to me, but maybe I'm just too used to espresso that everything is going to taste weak in comparison?


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## Lefteye

It never seems to get to that thick taste like an espresso nor really 'stronger' more like a more complex and multi layered flavour in my hands if that doesn't sound too wan**y


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## garydyke1

Lefteye said:


> It never seems to get to that thick taste like an espresso nor really 'stronger' more like a more complex and multi layered flavour in my hands if that doesn't sound too wan**y


Bound to be under-extracted (just guessing)


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## MWJB

risky said:


> I'm going to try the long steep times, the short time recipes always seem to taste so 'weak' to me, but maybe I'm just too used to espresso that everything is going to taste weak in comparison?


If your espresso is 9-10%TDS (strength) then you'll have trouble getting past half that with a typical Aeropress brew. My Aeropress brews are in the normal range for filter brewed coffee 1.20-1.35%, so yes, compared to espresso, most of these will be weaker.


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## Lefteye

garydyke1 said:


> Bound to be under-extracted (just guessing)


You reckon? So I should leave it longer ? Or grind finer - thought it lost some clarity when I went finer. Maybe a need more than the porlex for this ( say yes and give me the excuse!)


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## risky

Lefteye said:


> Maybe a need more than the porlex for this ( say yes and give me the excuse!)


Lacking clarity you say? You will absolutely need to upgrade to an R120 for this.


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## Obsy

risky said:


> Lacking clarity you say? You will absolutely need to upgrade to an R120 for this.


I concur. Tis the only option


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## Lefteye

risky said:


> Lacking clarity you say? You will absolutely need to upgrade to an R120 for this.


Im not sure it's big enough. I reckon it would have to be the r140 or something I have to build an extension for...


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## garydyke1

Lefteye said:


> You reckon? So I should leave it longer ? Or grind finer - thought it lost some clarity when I went finer. Maybe a need more than the porlex for this ( say yes and give me the excuse!)


Porlex produces lots of fines. Have you modified it to be more stable?

Try the coarser grind but the longer steep. You have have hit a 'dead spot' in the extraction hump?


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## Lefteye

garydyke1 said:


> Porlex produces lots of fines. Have you modified it to be more stable?
> 
> Try the coarser grind but the longer steep. You have have hit a 'dead spot' in the extraction hump?


havent done one any mods. Is this the washer and nut thing?? Definitely preferred the taste with a coarser grind but it does look like there is a fair variation in particle size. May be just a personal preference thing on taste?


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## risky

Just did a 30 minute steep. Much 'stronger'. Used a finer grind too. I think I was far too course before. Still lacking any real flavour. Then it hit me that I used tap water, my water is about 40 TDS. Absurdly soft, no wonder it doesn't taste of anything! Need to experiment with using some bottled stuff.


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## fatboyslim

risky said:


> Just did a 30 minute steep. Much 'stronger'. Used a finer grind too. I think I was far too course before. Still lacking any real flavour. Then it hit me that I used tap water, my water is about 40 TDS. Absurdly soft, no wonder it doesn't taste of anything! Need to experiment with using some bottled stuff.


Normal procedure to make aeropress then just leave it for 30 mins?


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## jkb89

Did a quickie this eve (30s steep, 15s stir, 90s total brew time - 14g in 240ml), tried with a much finer grind and it tasted so much better than yesterday - think i've been woefully underextracting on the last batch :-(


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## craig01nire

My brew time has been 1:30 for ages and I thought the coffee I was getting was the best I could get. After reading a few comments here on the longer brew time I tried it for myself - what a difference! for anyone who hasn't tried it before give it a go, one of the few times I have got everything in the tasting notes and my method is far from acurate.

El Salvador Finca Argentina from Has Bean - a scoop ( the one provided with the aeropress) of beans - Porlex set about five clicks back from the tightest. inverted method, kettle 1:30 off the boil filled to top and stirred 5 times. left for 30mins with my hoodie wrapped round the areopress (all I have to hand in work) plunged for 30secs.

good to drink right away - lots of chocolate notes and hazelnut, even more so as it cools.


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## simontc

Im a total aeropress long steep convert....


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## Rhys

Tried an AeroPress for the first time today, I bough it for my dad and have it paired with the Isomac (which I've also given to him). After mucking around with the grind to get is just a bit courser than espresso (as advised), I put a scoop of Ethiopian Sidamo in and got as much out as I could (retention is appalling.. Maybe I should fill the hopper and measure what fills the scoop as a guide for him - as he has no scales). Inverted it, washed the filter in the cap, put the coffee in and filled it with hot water (2 mins off boil). Gave it a stir and inverted it. Left it sat on the cup for a minute then plunged.. Quite bright tasting and strong as well. No doubt my dad will add milk, but I quite liked it.

I'm going round to see him tomorrow as well to run through it with him. I'll take my scales and measure a scoop of ground (the less faff the better I think) to get an idea of dosage. I'll try the bloom for a min, then top up and leave for 10 minutes or so to see how that fairs (by which time I think he'll be reaching for the tin of Kenco..) Hopefully it'll be worthwhile, and it'll give him some pleasure.










I might just have to buy another for myself..


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## markf1988

noob question...does the long steep not over extract?


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## MWJB

markf1988 said:


> noob question...does the long steep not over extract?


Not very often. The steep is losing temperature as soon as it starts, just sitting there with low agitation it's more likely to fall short of highest tasty extraction than to terminally over-extract.

Subjectively, any extraction that goes farther than your personal preference might be considered "over-extracted" (many folk like AP brews at lower extractions than a long steep), objectively over-extraction is where pulling out any more flavour cannot improve the taste, for my preference (sweetness) seems to happen around max possible extraction (with a declining temperature).


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## 2971

Just to say thanks for this thread. I tried a 30 minute steep today and got the best aeropress I've ever had.


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## Vieux Clou

Received an AP for Christmas. Thought previously they were just another means of turning out so-so brews but couldn't measure up to espresso. Oops. Results so far have, as it says in Corinthians 1st XV (RFC), knocked my socks off.

Not selling the machines yet but they'd better watch out.


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## Dylan

So would an insulated aeropress be a good seller? Or does the natural temperature drop need to happen for the extraction to work right? And do you add hot water to the brew after 30mins?


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## MWJB

Dylan said:


> So would an insulated aeropress be a good seller? Or does the natural temperature drop need to happen for the extraction to work right? And do you add hot water to the brew after 30mins?


The temperature drop extends the time it takes to extract, but I'm not sure insulation (without vacuum sealing) will do much other than keep the brew hotter at the end of 30min. Judging by my experience with French presses, insulation doesn't seem to speed things up. In fact, for me it slows things down (but a bigger window for hot coffee) as I like my coffee ~55C and insulation means it takes more time to drop to this temp. If I'm brewing for 2 or 3 people I'll do 3 small, uninsulated, pots which will be ready in 20min, rather than one big pot in 40-50min.

Some folk wrap towels/cosies around the Aeropress. To substantially speed up extraction would likely mean applying heat to the brewer/water, not practical for a plastic brewer.

Of course, plenty of people drink Aeropress at lower extractions than you get after 30min.


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## Dylan

I haven't tried wrapping my aero press up yet, but 30mins results in a luke warm to flat out cold brew for me.

Maybe I need to put it next to the radiator.


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## MWJB

Well, like I said, I like my coffee about 55C, it shouldn't be cold after 30min (I have had warm cups after 40-50min), are you covering it/turning it upright with plunger in during the steep? Are you starting with water over 95C?

If you like your coffee piping hot then you'll need a shorter method.


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## PPapa

What about a long steeping in any other container that is heat resistant? Like a glass measuring cup inside a pot filled with water and kept on stove for a little bit? Then filter through AP.

Sounds like a lot of work to me, but that can work given you are steeping it for 30+ minutes.


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## urbanbumpkin

Dylan said:


> I haven't tried wrapping my aero press up yet, but 30mins results in a luke warm to flat out cold brew for me.
> 
> Maybe I need to put it next to the radiator.


Try this.









If worn as a hat it stops the government from reading your mind with their microwave rays.


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## MWJB

PPapa said:


> What about a long steeping in any other container that is heat resistant? Like a glass measuring cup inside a pot filled with water and kept on stove for a little bit? Then filter through AP.
> 
> Sounds like a lot of work to me, but that can work given you are steeping it for 30+ minutes.


I have done this, heatproof glasses set to steep in a pan full of ~90c water, with a silicon mat on the floor of the pan to stop the heat source directly cooking the coffee. It seemed like a good idea before hand, but is quite a faff compared to waiting a few minutes more with very little possibility of over-extraction.

There's always Turkish/Ibrik?


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## PPapa

MWJB said:


> I have done this, heatproof glasses set to steep in a pan full of ~90c water, with a silicon mat on the floor of the pan to stop the heat source directly cooking the coffee. It seemed like a good idea before hand, but is quite a faff compared to waiting a few minutes more with very little possibility of over-extraction.
> 
> There's always Turkish/Ibrik?


Or MSR Windboiler with a French Press. I might actually give that a try, it should be easy to maintain the same temperature as it has an insulation layer as well.

Next step: brewing in variable temperature kettle which can hold the temperature within +/- 2 degrees.


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## seeq

Brew in a water bath that can maintain temperature at +/-0.1c? Admittedly you'd need to brew 10 litres of coffee, but hey, that's only about 600g of beans right?


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## jonbutler88

I tried my first long steep today using 16g fine ground beans, water at 97C, a very quick stir after pouring and then left it for 30 minutes with a saucer on top. The result was interesting, I wouldn't describe it as sweet, but it was a very rounded cup of coffee, with no unpleasant bitterness or acidity. I didn't measure the temperature after brewing, but it was still definitely warm, although I prefer it a little hotter than it was so I diluted slightly with some hot water.

I'm wondering if this might be better with some of the more fruity light roasts, as I felt the body of the coffee was a bit overpowering, and didn't leave much of the tasting notes present. Then again, I have a cold at the moment so it might just be that I'm too bunged up to taste properly!


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## MWJB

jonbutler88 said:


> I tried my first long steep today using 16g fine ground beans, water at 97C, a very quick stir after pouring and then left it for 30 minutes with a saucer on top. The result was interesting, I wouldn't describe it as sweet, but it was a very rounded cup of coffee, with no unpleasant bitterness or acidity. I didn't measure the temperature after brewing, but it was still definitely warm, although I prefer it a little hotter than it was so I diluted slightly with some hot water.
> 
> I'm wondering if this might be better with some of the more fruity light roasts, as I felt the body of the coffee was a bit overpowering, and didn't leave much of the tasting notes present. Then again, I have a cold at the moment so it might just be that I'm too bunged up to taste properly!


Maybe try down dosing slightly, might make it less overpowering & let the extraction get into a lightly sweeter phase? I aim around 55g/l.


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## Kyle T

I only got my Aeropress on Friday and have played around a bit, usually with anything from 30secs to 1min30 steeps. Will try a longer steep in the morning. Do any of you top up with hot water after plunging? or just drink what you have plunged?


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## urbanbumpkin

Sometimes top up a bit. Usually a fully filled Aeropress is enough for me.


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## big dan

Will have to give this a try, did some long steeps on the Clever which were pretty good. I would note the following points:

- More flavours develop as coffee cools so with a longer extraction so the first taste is always sweeter. With shorter brew lengths I often leave the coffee in the cup for another few minutes to cool down so it is nice and sweet

- I just started using an Able Metal disk filter for the AP which has been night and day difference for me. Turned the AP from a bright but very thin bodied coffee into an amazingly clear cup with good body and acidity.

- I half way through my night shift and have had AP all week so will start a 30 minute steep now and report back!


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## Redoid

Just steeped for longer than I usually would - tried steeping it for 10-15 minutes.

The beans I used had quite a nutty/chocolate flavour with my usual shorter steep method, but with the longer steep, the nutty flavour was definitely more apparent (which was nice). Will have to try with the extended period of 30 mins.


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## oddknack

Have picked up the AP again after a long while drinking just espresso, I'd be interested to hear if it is possible to grind too fine with a long steep? I just got myself a Feldgrind, and have been using short brews this week, but have not been getting anything too great. Feldgrind on 2 turns out from closed, 1min 30 inverted. I will be experimenting with ashbeck (tap water in London might be affecting taste), and with 30 min brews. And further to my question, I'll be trying tighter grind, including straight from my espresso dialled grinder


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## javacentral

That must be a strong cup! I usually do around 2 minutes with my aeropress but now I'm curious.


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## MWJB

javacentral said:


> That must be a strong cup! I usually do around 2 minutes with my aeropress but now I'm curious.


My Aeropress brews hit about 1.30%TDS after 30 mins (55g/l brew ratio), this is no stronger than the typical brewed coffee range.


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