# Lelit Mara Line Up - Which one to go for?



## lynxv3

Hey Folks,

I'm in the running for a new machine and wanted to tap into your knowledge on machines and specifically the Lelit Mara line up (I know there's a whole thread about the Bianca, I've read all of it, but feel free to weigh in with the Bianca if need be).

From what I can gather about the line up these are the major things that are different:

PL62S - has soft plastic turn knobs for the steam and hot water taps

PL62 - has hardened plastic turn knobs for the steam and hot water taps (looks better)

PL62T - same as the 62 but with PID temp control

PL62G - same as the 62 but with real flashy steam and hot water outlets and the group head

Am I over simplifying it? Please weigh in..

My overall question, between the PL62T and the PL62/62S, is it worth plumping up for the PID? Are the versions as reliable as each other? If we're talking about future proffing then that would be the Bianca but I don't fancy profiling at this point and don't see myself to going down that road to be honest.

Obviously I don't expect anyone to have owned both so if you have any of them could you comment with your experiences? Perhaps what swayed you towards your particular model.

Hopefully there's more than DaveC out there who have owned/used the Mara!

Thanks in advance


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## DavecUK

PL62 or PL62 with wood knobs....

PID is a waste of time, the S is OK, but the knobs are a bit fugly and you will wish you had spent a tiny bit more.


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## lynxv3

Hi DaveC, thanks for the reply!

Sorry, thought they were hard plastic. Bella Barista has them on at £50 difference so at least it's not that much of a stretch as some others with minor aesthetic changes.

Do you know if there are any other stockists for the PL62?

Also, can't remember if you mentioned it in your review, but can the PL62 be used with a WiFi smart plug?


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## DavecUK

lynxv3 said:


> Hi DaveC, thanks for the reply!
> 
> Sorry, thought they were hard plastic. Bella Barista has them on at £50 difference so at least it's not that much of a stretch as some others with minor aesthetic changes.
> 
> Do you know if there are any other stockists for the PL62?
> 
> Also, can't remember if you mentioned it in your review, but can the PL62 be used with a WiFi smart plug?


The PL62 can be used with smart plugs etc.. as it has a latching power switch, not a soft switch. Why would you want to buy from anywhere else? You read a completely independent review and enjoyed the benefits of comprehensive testing, paid for by Bella Barista, you get a 2 year fully transferable warranty from one of the best in the UK. Remember it's completely normal for these types of machines to have a "bought out warranty", you have absolutely no warranty with the manufacturer. I wouldn't recommend a box shifter, support the retailers who are going to be there when you need them.


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## lynxv3

I'm fully intent on getting the machine from Bella Barista, just looking through their site they have a lot of listings that are out of stock so it was more of having a back up for replacement parts or any other accessories (they don't sell the Lelit knock box..).

Just small things but it's quite a big investment, trying to reassure myself it'll be worth while in the long run.


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## DavecUK

lynxv3 said:


> I'm fully intent on getting the machine from Bella Barista, just looking through their site they have a lot of listings that are out of stock so it was more of having a back up for replacement parts or any other accessories (they don't sell the Lelit knock box..).
> 
> Just small things but it's quite a big investment, trying to reassure myself it'll be worth while in the long run.


I like the small plastic countertop boxes myself....I have had a Grindenstien bought by a friend as a present for over a decade....it just works, sure it's old and the bottom has a bit of cracking now...but I would get another like it in a heartbeat.


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## hamid

im looking to maybe looking to upgrade from my gaggia classic to the lelit mara but been reading you cant descale the machine that easy or is that nothing to worry about


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## DavecUK

hamid said:


> im looking to maybe looking to upgrade from my gaggia classic to the lelit mara but been reading you cant descale the machine that easy or is that nothing to worry about


I wouldn't take any notice of people who may not be very technical, or understand the Lelit Mara very well. The Lelit Mara has a vertical boiler which makes it easier to descale than Horizontal boiler machines and it's not difficult to descale. I even give detailed instructions of how to do it in the user guide I wrote for Bella Barista, all their customers get a copy of that user guide in addition to the manufacturers one.

It would be a nice upgrade from your Gaggia and produce much better beverages/milk steaming whilst being easier to use..


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## firvulag

Pulled the trigger on the same model at the weekend after reading up. Dave's review on worldpress was the key. Its in the car now. Looking foreward to it but I can see a upgrade of my Gaggia MDF grinder on the horizon.


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## Blaven

firvulag said:


> Pulled the trigger on the same model at the weekend after reading up. Dave's review on worldpress was the key. Its in the car now. Looking foreward to it but I can see a upgrade of my Gaggia MDF grinder on the horizon.


Can I ask how you're getting on with the Mara? I'm in the process of copying you.


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## firvulag

Very well, love it, use it every day. Every managed to get my old Gaggia MDF grinder to play nice with it. Good simple switching as well so linked to a decent Alexa smart plug so its on 1/2 hour before I need it.

If buying again it would be this one again or I'd also look at the minima DaveC had reviewed.

I live in a soft water area so don't need to worry about descaling - although the tech guys at Bella did sugggest I do it every 6 months/year anyway. So I have a tub of the recommended Citrix acid from them and they said they'd talk me through it. You don't get Dave's user guide included anymore but I guess he'd be happy to share it if needed.


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## igm45

firvulag said:


> Very well, love it, use it every day. Every managed to get my old Gaggia MDF grinder to play nice with it. Good simple switching as well so linked to a decent Alexa smart plug so its on 1/2 hour before I need it.
> 
> If buying again it would be this one again or I'd also look at the minima DaveC had reviewed.
> 
> I live in a soft water area so don't need to worry about descaling - although the tech guys at Bella did sugggest I do it every 6 months/year anyway. So I have a tub of the recommended Citrix acid from them and they said they'd talk me through it. You don't get Dave's user guide included anymore but I guess he'd be happy to share it if needed.


It's a great machine, super compact too.


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## DavecUK

Interesting, I wonder why they no longer include the guide?


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## Mark70

Just to update this thread on the guide. I requested a copy when ordering last month and it was supplied without question nicely spiral bound

makes it nice and easy for a newby like me. Thanks Dave


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## 17845

I have owned my Mara for over 6 months now, no regrets at all and so far so good.

I would not hesitate to recommend a Lelit - also would not hesitate to recommend Bella Barista.

I also requested a copy of DavecUK's guide, much better than the original manual.


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## borez

DavecUK said:


> I wouldn't take any notice of people who may not be very technical, or understand the Lelit Mara very well. The Lelit Mara has a vertical boiler which makes it easier to descale than Horizontal boiler machines and it's not difficult to descale. I even give detailed instructions of how to do it in the user guide I wrote for Bella Barista, all their customers get a copy of that user guide in addition to the manufacturers one.
> 
> It would be a nice upgrade from your Gaggia and produce much better beverages/milk steaming whilst being easier to use..


 Hi,

BTW on the guide - was that copyrighted to Bella Barista, or can you share that within the community?

No worries otherwise.


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## DavecUK

borez said:


> Hi,
> 
> BTW on the guide - was that copyrighted to Bella Barista, or can you share that within the community?
> 
> No worries otherwise.


 I wrote it for them, so no I can't/won't share it. BB go to a lot of trouble to make sure they stock machines (certainly those at the prosumer end) that are some of the best performers and work well for the customer. They don't box shift....so it would be very unfair to share stuff with people who don't support them as a retailer.

I am thinking one day to write a Generic user/how to guide on HX, Dual Boiler and pressue profiling machines to share with the community, but it would be a big project. Perhaps sell it to fund the wordpress site so I can remove those horrible adverts. i'd have to sell 30 copies initially then 15 copies a year or so to fund ad removal.


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## borez

DavecUK said:


> I wrote it for them, so no I can't/won't share it. BB go to a lot of trouble to make sure they stock machines (certainly those at the prosumer end) that are some of the best performers and work well for the customer. They don't box shift....so it would be very unfair to share stuff with people who don't support them as a retailer.
> 
> I am thinking one day to write a Generic user/how to guide on HX, Dual Boiler and pressue profiling machines to share with the community, but it would be a big project. Perhaps sell it to fund the wordpress site so I can remove those horrible adverts. i'd have to sell 30 copies initially then 15 copies a year or so to fund ad removal.


 No worries, and completely understand! Pity that I'm out of the UK, would love to support such businesses.

Will rely on the good folks/knowledge here, and looking to the guide if it's ever published!


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## DavecUK

borez said:


> No worries, and completely understand! Pity that I'm out of the UK, would love to support such businesses.
> 
> Will rely on the good folks/knowledge here, and looking to the guide if it's ever published!


 It's been a project I've wanted to do to demystify the machines a bit. A 2 year ad removal is £60 after that £3 per month or £36 per year so I'd initially need to sell 30 copies at £2 each and 18 to 20 copies per year after that.. Trouble is as soon as you electronically produce/deliver them, people will send copies to mates over the internet.


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## borez

DavecUK said:


> It's been a project I've wanted to do to demystify the machines a bit. A 2 year ad removal is £60 after that £3 per month or £36 per year so I'd initially need to sell 30 copies at £2 each and 18 to 20 copies per year after that.. Trouble is as soon as you electronically produce/deliver them, people will send copies to mates over the internet.


 True, you can't stop the copies from being circulated around, but you could price the books higher. Am sure they have their intrinsic value, given the money and effort we spent on this hobby. And if it's for a good cause, hopefully folks will support this endeavour.

I spent weeks trying to demystify things, so anything that cut shorts this process would be useful.


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## KTC

DavecUK said:


> PID is a waste of time.


 Hello Dave! Thank you for your indepth review of the Mara and MaraX, very informative. The MaraX isn't available where I am, & won't be for the foreseeable future. The PL62 is the only one available. Cosidering what you said about the PID, I'm confused - I thought the PID control on the X was what made it special. I don't get how one can brew at different tempratures on an HX without a PID (Cooling flushes, a fan blowing over the E61?!). Without ever having owned an HX, I'm certain there are gaping holes in my understanding of the subject.
I would be grateful if you could shed some light on the matter. Thank you.


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## rdmn

KTC said:


> Hello Dave! Thank you for your indepth review of the Mara and MaraX, very informative. The MaraX isn't available where I am, & won't be for the foreseeable future. The PL62 is the only one available. Cosidering what you said about the PID, I'm confused - I thought the PID control on the X was what made it special. I don't get how one can brew at different tempratures on an HX without a PID (Cooling flushes, a fan blowing over the E61?!). Without ever having owned an HX, I'm certain there are gaping holes in my understanding of the subject.
> I would be grateful if you could shed some light on the matter. Thank you.


 Normally with HX machines you'd need a group thermometer. Flush until the temperature of the water sinks to your desired value and then brew your coffee. PIDs on normal HX machines are controversial because the temperature of the boiler (that is regulated by the PID) does not translate to the brewing temperature. On HX machines the temperature in the boiler is always way higher than the temperature you want to brew with. So no matter if you regulate that temperature with a PID or a pressurestat, the fine tuning of the brew temperature has to always be made with cooling flushes.

On the MaraX on the other hand the PID regulates the brew temperature which is accurate.


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## KTC

Thank you for that explainer, it helps putting the pieces together. Cooling flushes seem like a massive waste of water, but surely that can be managed with some effort.



rdmn said:


> On the MaraX on the other hand the PID regulates the brew temperature which is accurate.


 This makes the X seem like a game changer, and other HX machines cumbersome in comparison. Can the regular Mara be justified anymore.. 🤫


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## Jony

Yes it's a called a Double Boiler, but a few like the Mara X


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## Gubbo89

Jony said:


> Yes it's a called a Double Boiler, but a few like the Mara X


 So the Mara X has some benefits of a dual boiler without the price attached?

Ignoring other differences a dual boiler has that make them better than HX.


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## Nikko

KTC said:


> Hello Dave! Thank you for your indepth review of the Mara and MaraX, very informative. The MaraX isn't available where I am, & won't be for the foreseeable future. The PL62 is the only one available. Cosidering what you said about the PID, I'm confused - I thought the PID control on the X was what made it special. I don't get how one can brew at different tempratures on an HX without a PID (Cooling flushes, a fan blowing over the E61?!). Without ever having owned an HX, I'm certain there are gaping holes in my understanding of the subject.
> I would be grateful if you could shed some light on the matter. Thank you.


 In the Mara X Lelit have added a set point reset function to the boiler temperature control, which aims to maintain the brew temperature at the right level. This is rather a compromising step as maintaining brew temperature this way means you are not able to steam. They got around it by abandoning brew temperature control and turning the steam pressure up once the brew lever is lifted but now the steam temperature is too hot for brewing. If you are quick you may get away with a second brew otherwise you have to cool with a flush or wait half an hour or so to cool to the start position.


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## Stanic

Nikko said:


> In the Mara X Lelit have added a set point reset function to the boiler temperature control, which aims to maintain the brew temperature at the right level. This is rather a compromising step as maintaining brew temperature this way means you are not able to steam. They got around it by abandoning brew temperature control and turning the steam pressure up once the brew lever is lifted but now the steam temperature is too hot for brewing. If you are quick you may get away with a second brew otherwise you have to cool with a flush or wait half an hour or so to cool to the start position.


 Ah, the @DavecUK 's personal troll is at it again


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## Rob1

Stanic said:


> Ah, the @DavecUK 's personal troll is at it again


 To be honest there's nothing really wrong with the post though. It does seem like you would only be able to make two or three doubles in a row if you're quick enough. It shouldn't be a problem to make two in a row even if you hand grind. It's an interesting design. That german machine seems to have an interesting solution too (Xenia?) by draining the thermosyphon with a solenoid after every shot.


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## KTC

Nikko said:


> In the Mara X Lelit have added a set point reset function to the boiler temperature control, which aims to maintain the brew temperature at the right level. This is rather a compromising step as maintaining brew temperature this way means you are not able to steam. They got around it by abandoning brew temperature control and turning the steam pressure up once the brew lever is lifted but now the steam temperature is too hot for brewing. If you are quick you may get away with a second brew otherwise you have to cool with a flush or wait half an hour or so to cool to the start position.


 I don't think I'm technically adept to fully understand the implication of what you're saying. From what I gather, if what you're saying is indeed correct, it would have quite the opposite effect to what the Mara X has been (re)designed for & claims to be capable of.


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## Stanic

Rob1 said:


> To be honest there's nothing really wrong with the post though. It does seem like you would only be able to make two or three doubles in a row if you're quick enough. It shouldn't be a problem to make two in a row even if you hand grind. It's an interesting design. That german machine seems to have an interesting solution too (Xenia?) by draining the thermosyphon with a solenoid after every shot.


 IMO there is enough evidence published on web to prove otherwise


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## Rob1

Stanic said:


> IMO there is enough evidence published on web to prove otherwise


 Regarding what?


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## Stanic

Rob1 said:


> Regarding what?


 "maintaining brew temperature this way means you are not able to steam"

"If you are quick you may get away with a second brew otherwise you have to cool with a flush or wait half an hour or so to cool to the start position"


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## Rob1

Stanic said:


> "maintaining brew temperature this way means you are not able to steam"
> 
> "If you are quick you may get away with a second brew otherwise you have to cool with a flush or wait half an hour or so to cool to the start position"


 Not sure about the not able to steam remark....though if pressure is below 1 bar until the brew lever is lifted it seems reasonable.

I'm basing the idea you can only make shots back to back for a limited period of time based on this from about 4:10 though maybe you can just draw water off with the tap if you want to keep going.


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## Stanic

It's not the only information source available

Please note: I've got it on pre-order so I'm not impartial but I've also seen/studied a lot more than one video


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## KTC

Stanic said:


> I've also seen/studied a lot more than one video


 Could you perhaps share some resources that you found to be useful? To understand the ways of the machine better.


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## Stanic

KTC said:


> Could you perhaps share some resources that you found to be useful? To understand the ways of the machine better.


 pm sent


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## hummel89

DavecUK said:


> I wrote it for them, so no I can't/won't share it. BB go to a lot of trouble to make sure they stock machines (certainly those at the prosumer end) that are some of the best performers and work well for the customer. They don't box shift....so it would be very unfair to share stuff with people who don't support them as a retailer.
> 
> I am thinking one day to write a Generic user/how to guide on HX, Dual Boiler and pressue profiling machines to share with the community, but it would be a big project. Perhaps sell it to fund the wordpress site so I can remove those horrible adverts. i'd have to sell 30 copies initially then 15 copies a year or so to fund ad removal.


 I'd be willing to purchase a guide on looking after HX machines. I think a lot of manufacturer's manuals are lacking in maintenance topics. Well, its either that or people who consider coffee as a hobby want to know more about machines than a generic user..


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## DavecUK

hummel89 said:


> I'd be willing to purchase a guide on looking after HX machines. I think a lot of manufacturer's manuals are lacking in maintenance topics. Well, its either that or people who consider coffee as a hobby want to know more about machines than a generic user..


 I suspect a lot of people would, the problem is the amount of work to produce it, the fact that there are many different machines, not huge differences but enough to be confusing for those not familiar with them. e.g. a machine I'm using has an expansion valve that's adjustable but it doesn't look as you would expect and I suspect the novice would not be able to find it with the case of the machine off.

It's something I mulled over doing but realised that it's just too much of my time to do properly. I almost started a book on the Amazan Dalian roaster it's guides put together total around 70 pages I think? Can't really remember as I have not read it in ages. I don't even write user guides for espresso machines nowadays, just takes too long. I am doing my morning coffee series and whenever I think I'm doing something interesting with a machine, grinder, roaster or I think of something that might be useful to see, I'm videoing it.

Even with that I take video and then forget to edit up the article, after which I come across a vid and wonder why I made it. 🤣


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## hummel89

DavecUK said:


> I suspect a lot of people would, the problem is the amount of work to produce it, the fact that there are many different machines, not huge differences but enough to be confusing for those not familiar with them. e.g. a machine I'm using has an expansion valve that's adjustable but it doesn't look as you would expect and I suspect the novice would not be able to find it with the case of the machine off.
> 
> It's something I mulled over doing but realised that it's just too much of my time to do properly. I almost started a book on the Amazan Dalian roaster it's guides put together total around 70 pages I think? Can't really remember as I have not read it in ages. I don't even write user guides for espresso machines nowadays, just takes too long. I am doing my morning coffee series and whenever I think I'm doing something interesting with a machine, grinder, roaster or I think of something that might be useful to see, I'm videoing it.
> 
> Even with that I take video and then forget to edit up the article, after which I come across a vid and wonder why I made it. 🤣


 I totally get it. It can't be easy to write a manual that would cover every piece of detail. I do like your youtube videos though. It helps a lot when I have the visuals followed by your explanation. My Mrs gets petrified when she sees me lifting a lid of a new coffee machine just to have a look though 😂


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## DavecUK

hummel89 said:


> I totally get it. It can't be easy to write a manual that would cover every piece of detail. I do like your youtube videos though. It helps a lot when I have the visuals followed by your explanation. My Mrs gets petrified when she sees me lifting a lid of a new coffee machine just to have a look though 😂


 The best thing anyone can do with a new coffee machine is open at least the top of it (better the whole case off)...preferably before first use, you can watch it as it heats up.....safety goggles of course. You learn more about your machine and can inspect the first startup for problems.

I don't think I have ever just plugged in a new machine and just turned it on....I tell a lie...the Lelit Elizabeth but I had the case off the same day


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## gr4z

DavecUK said:


> The best thing anyone can do with a new coffee machine is open at least the top of it (better the whole case off)...preferably before first use, you can watch it as it heats up.....safety goggles of course. You learn more about your machine and can inspect the first startup for problems.
> 
> I don't think I have ever just plugged in a new machine and just turned it on....I tell a lie...the Lelit Elizabeth but I had the case off the same day


 I wouldn't have a clue what to do if I saw anything anyway  do we recommend we 'inspect' our machines from time to time or should we get them serviced?


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## DavecUK

gr4z said:


> I wouldn't have a clue what to do if I saw anything anyway  do we recommend we 'inspect' our machines from time to time or should we get them serviced?


 Once per year the machine should have the cased removed, look around it with a torch, then switch it on (all boilers), run a shot into a blind filter for 20s and look round with a torch observe it as it warms up. Once up to temperature come back and inspect again and run a shot into a blind filter for 20s and look round with a torch.

I can't impart 20 years experience of what to look for (I have posted more details over the years on this forum) but anything that doesn't seem right, take photos and/or video so you can ask people of things you are unsure of.

On a weekly or monthly basis there are other minor maintenance tasks that help keep the machine in good running order. The other critical thing is using good water, use good water and machine problems are reduced by 95%. Just because it's bottled doesn't mean it's good, neither is tap water just because it's soft.

The other option is to never remove the case, don't get it serviced, wait until it's obvious you have a fault, and then pay more or accept the fact that more damage has been caused as a result.


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