# Sage BT dialling in problems



## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

Hello,

New to the forum but have read the sticky and numerous other threads.

I have the Sage BT and I'm struggling to get it dialled in so would appreciate some advice.

Using Rave fudge beans, weigh 18g into the hopper and get 17-18g out, grind setting on 8 with grind time of 15 secs but get 96g out. This is the second attempt on the first I got 120 out on a grind size of 12.

Do I need to grind finer? I know it's a huge learning curve and prepared to be patient.

Thanks.

Also to add, on the second attempt the puck fell apart when knocking it out.


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## General-S-1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Hello and welcome to the forum.

are you weighing the espresso? If yes stop the shot when you reach the desired weight. 
if you can write down your exact steps in order/ or upload a video of your process, this will help with the feedback you will recieve from forum members.

Good luck and keep us updated

👍


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

Yes I'm weighing the shot. If I stop the shot at the desired weight I'll be extracting in a very short amount of time. Isn't that an issue? Or do I just pull the shot manually at the desired weight and then taste the espresso?

I weigh out 18g of beans into the hopper, then grind into a cup. The dosage I grind out is 17-18g. I decant into the portafilter then tamp. Once brewed weight out was 120g on first attempt then 96g on second. First grind setting was 12, second one was 8.

Thank you for your input.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> Yes I'm weighing the shot. If I stop the shot at the desired weight I'll be extracting in a very short amount of time. Isn't that an issue? Or do I just pull the shot manually at the desired weight and then taste the espresso?


 Yes, stop at the desired weight. Sounds like you need to grind finer.

By the way, what is the weight out you are shooting for?

Try and keep the dose the same each time, rather than swing by 1g.


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Yes, stop at the desired weight. Sounds like you need to grind finer.
> 
> By the way, what is the weight out you are shooting for?
> 
> Try and keep the dose the same each time, rather than swing by 1g.


 I'm aiming for a 1:2 ratio. Will give your suggestions a go and see what happens.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> I'm aiming for a 1:2 ratio.


 You definitely need 1:2, you can't tolerate shots any weaker?


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

I was aiming for 1:2 as a starting point but can definitely tolerate weaker shots. What should I be going for to start with?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you can easily hit a balanced shot at 1:3, then grind finer & see if you can maintain that balance at 1:2


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

I tried your suggestions. First attempt at grind 7 I got 36g, looked good to me but tasted quite bitter. Went back to grind size 8 and tried working on tamping and this time got 53g. Kept dose in and out at 18g and stopped shot manually at 53g but realised that I need proper scales as I've been using normal kitchen ones. Shot at 53g also looks good to me but I'm new to this so can't be too sure. It tasted a little sour.

Thank you so much for all your help. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now just need to get a balanced taste. Any suggestions on how I can do this?

I added milk to the espresso and although it was drinkable I could taste the sourness.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> Thank you so much for all your help. I feel like I'm getting somewhere now just need to get a balanced taste. Any suggestions on how I can do this?


 I wouldn't assume that the 36g shot was over-extracted if the 54g shot at 8 was sour. I'd grind at 7 and pull 18:54 & report back.

Try and keep the dose & shot weights the same each time, whilst you are dialing in grind. When shots at 1:3 are good & repeatable, then think about dialling in at a shoerter ratio, maybe 1:2.5, then when that's good, try dialling in at 1:2.


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

I've done that and it's a bit more sour than my last shot. I didn't manually pull the shot as it got to 54g at 30 seconds. What should I now be tweaking to get a balanced shot?

Thank you for being so patient with your advice, it really is appreciated.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> I've done that and it's a bit more sour than my last shot. I didn't manually pull the shot as it got to 54g at 30 seconds. What should I now be tweaking to get a balanced shot?
> 
> Thank you for being so patient with your advice, it really is appreciated.


 Sourness is usually under-extraction. Grind finer.

Out of interest, what is the coffee?


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

Coffee is Rave fudge blend, which were ordered in error as I thought I'd got the signature blend. Bag is almost finished.

Tried grinding at 6 but only got 30g out and it poured very slowly. Went back to 7 and got 54g out but again it's sour. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong at this point as I can't seem to get past the sourness.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

SSEA said:


> Coffee is Rave fudge blend, which were ordered in error as I thought I'd got the signature blend. Bag is almost finished.
> 
> Tried grinding at 6 but only got 30g out and it poured very slowly. Went back to 7 and got 54g out but again it's sour. Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong at this point as I can't seem to get past the sourness.


 Have you read the sticky in the Sage forum? Are you following the pointers there? Are you running dummy shots? Is the portafilter hot? I assume you are happy with your tamp? What tamper are you using? (I ask that as the one that comes with the machine is not good).


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

Yes I've read the sticky thread a few times and I've followed all the advice apart from using bottled water and also using the sage tamper provided. I live in a very soft water area so didn't think I'd need to use bottled. Have ran 4 dummy shots.

Tamping seems to be good but as I'm new to it I can't be too sure but espresso flows out fine and usually after 7 seconds.

To complicate matters I've run out of beans so have now started using Rave colombian el carmen. I ordered a couple of different bags, obviously overestimated my capabilities! Grind size 7 I got 41g out but flavour was much improved although I can detect a slight sourness. I've also increased the machine brew temp so again it seems a bit of an improvement. I tried grind size 8 but flow was too fast. Any further ideas?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> I tried grind size 8 but flow was too fast. Any further ideas?


 You tried 7 and 54g out. You said this was sour. 7 at 41g out was also sour (your weight in the cup should not be varying by 13g, maybe more like +/-3g). Therefore, 7 is too coarse for the ratios you are brewing at.

8 is coarser than 7, meaning shots are likely to me more sour.

The advice remains unchanged - grind finer & continue to hit 54g out and see if you can hit a balanced flavour.


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

MWJB said:


> You tried 7 and 54g out. You said this was sour. 7 at 41g out was also sour (your weight in the cup should not be varying by 13g, maybe more like +/-3g). Therefore, 7 is too coarse for the ratios you are brewing at.
> 
> 8 is coarser than 7, meaning shots are likely to me more sour.
> 
> The advice remains unchanged - grind finer & continue to hit 54g out and see if you can hit a balanced flavour.


 7 at 54g was the fudge blend then I ran out of beans so used different ones.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> 7 at 54g was the fudge blend then I ran out of beans so used different ones.


 Different beans at the same ratio will still be the same concentration, if extracted similarly (small adjustments in grind).

Try not to 2nd guess, make the shot with the new beans the same way you made the last shot, then adjust based on what you actually have in the cup taste-wise.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

SSEA said:


> To complicate matters I've run out of beans so have now started using Rave colombian el carmen. I ordered a couple of different bags, obviously overestimated my capabilities!


 Don't worry about that, bags of Rave is exactly what I did to learn on my BE!

As MWJB said carry on in the same fashion. Aim for 54g off 18g. When you change something, change one variable at a time. 18g is not set in stone btw, some coffees like that, others a bit more, others a bit less.

You are pulling the shots manually right? (not just pressing 2 cup and standing back). So press and hold 2 cup, hold for infusion period, say 7 seconds, then let go, let shot run, then stopping after a further 29 seconds, so 36 seconds total.

My shot got a lot better when my tamp got better. Most people get this one, it's brilliant especially for the money:

https://blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/tampers/products/motta-53mm-flat-bottom-wood-and-metal-tamper

When tamping, hold the base with 4 fingers in a claw like grip. Don't hold the handle. It's easier to get an even firm tamp that way. No need to press too hard.


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> Don't worry about that, bags of Rave is exactly what I did to learn on my BE!
> 
> As MWJB said carry on in the same fashion. Aim for 54g off 18g. When you change something, change one variable at a time. 18g is not set in stone btw, some coffees like that, others a bit more, others a bit less.
> 
> ...


 Okay, so I've not been pulling my shots manually after all. I thought that just meant using scales and stopping when you get to the weight you need. I'm probably coming across dense and also just realised what MWJB was trying to explain. I'll carry on but will pull manually now.

I'll order that tamper also some proper scales as my kitchen ones are probably not helping either.

Thanks for all the help.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

SSEA said:


> Okay, so I've not been pulling my shots manually after all. I thought that just meant using scales and stopping when you get to the weight you need. I'm probably coming across dense and also just realised what MWJB was trying to explain. I'll carry on but will pull manually now.
> 
> I'll order that tamper also some proper scales as my kitchen ones are probably not helping either.
> 
> Thanks for all the help.


 When the machine does it's own thing sometimes it stops before the right weight, that's why we pull manually.

For scales you don't need to go mad, I and many on the forum have these ones:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01JKX4QAC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They're brilliant. If mine broke I would buy the same ones again.


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> When the machine does it's own thing sometimes it stops before the right weight, that's why we pull manually.
> 
> For scales you don't need to go mad, I and many on the forum have these ones:
> 
> ...


 I ordered those scales this afternoon and they arrived a while ago. I had another go but first shot flowed too fast and second was way too slow, both on the same grind size. Maybe my tamping is off.

I was expecting to have issues dialling in after reading reviews and reading threads on here but I honestly didn't think it'd take this much effort and patience, which is starting to wear thin. I've ordered the tamper you recommended but really starting to think I should have gone for a bean to cup machine.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SSEA said:


> I ordered those scales this afternoon and they arrived a while ago. I had another go but first shot flowed too fast and second was way too slow, both on the same grind size. Maybe my tamping is off.
> 
> I was expecting to have issues dialling in after reading reviews and reading threads on here but I honestly didn't think it'd take this much effort and patience, which is starting to wear thin. I've ordered the tamper you recommended but really starting to think I should have gone for a bean to cup machine.


 Don't worry so much about shot timing. Concentrate more on hitting the weight in the cup, even if the time differs.

Tamp flat & consistently, be sure to distribute in the basket first.


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## General-S-1 (Jul 27, 2015)

SSEA said:


> really starting to think I should have gone for a bean to cup machine


 We have all been there mate. Stick with it and you will soon be making great coffees on a regular basis. Dont give up yet


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Filling the hopper of the grinder and making shots until it's empty will also result in inconsistency. The last couple of shots will run faster than previous ones.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

SSEA said:


> I was expecting to have issues dialling in after reading reviews and reading threads on here but I honestly didn't think it'd take this much effort and patience, which is starting to wear thin.


 I get that, people often think it'll be quick, I too didn't think it would take as long as it did (about 2 months for me before I was getting a consistently nice drink).

Stick with it, change one variable at a time (with those Rave beans the amount varies, one I was using 19g, one 18.5g for instance). We've all been frustrated at the start.


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

So first attempt today resulted in a decent espresso. No sourness and although I didn't get that sweetness, there was no sour or bitter taste. It actually tasted like a nespresso, which quite frankly is an improvement for me! Shot stopped at 57g as I was a bit slow to stop it. I can't seem to use the manual button and I know that's user error and it seems to flick so quick and I find it confusing so I put in 40 seconds and stopped the shot when I got the weight. Not sure if this is the right way but seemed to work out okay.

I put all the beans in the hopper this time rather than single dosing. Running out of beans though. Any recommendations for easy to dial in beans? I could get rave but I'll be needing them sooner than they can deliver as it's almost the weekend.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to offer their advice.


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## General-S-1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Bom jesus from coffebythecasuals

signature blend from blackcatcoffee

rave signature blend

i found the above very easy to dial in

buy a kilo at a time. These are quite cheap and will help you season your burrs and dial in.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Good suggestions from General-S-1 above. I'd add First Light from Crown and Canvas. It's brilliant coffee, well priced and easy to get right. Also Altitude Captain's Roast and Little Fin El Fumo worked very work on my BE, both very easy to use and great coffee. All are a step up from Rave in terms of quality IMO.

There's discount codes for Crown and Canvas, BlackCat and CoffeeByTheCasuals in the discount section. They sponsor the forum so I'd say go for them. Helps you out as it's cheaper, helps them get business for their sponsorship.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

SSEA said:


> I can't seem to use the manual button and I know that's user error and it seems to flick so quick and I find it confusing so I put in 40 seconds and stopped the shot when I got the weight. Not sure if this is the right way but seemed to work out okay.


 I have the Bambino which should work in the same way.

To manually pull a shot:

Press and hold down the double shot button for 7 or 8 seconds which will pre-infuse the shot.

Take your finger off the button after 7/8 seconds

Then just leave the shot to run until you get the desired weight and press the 2 shot button again to stop the shot.


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## Scwheeler (Jan 13, 2020)

To possibly save you're finger some wear 😁 I don't think on the bambino you can change the duration of preinfusion. Take your finger off after 3 secs and see what happens, I found this out after a year of doing what you are doing.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Haha I will try this tomorrow


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

Thanks for the coffee bean recommendations. Have been busy so not got round to ordering any but will have a look now.

Wasn't at home much on the weekend and only used the machine again today after using on Friday and the shot was similar, which is a good thing.

I tried that dutchy101 but it seems to jump back to the double shot and do it's own thing.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Here's a video explaining how it works mate - if it still doesn't work maybe try a factory reset from the manual:


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## SSEA (Oct 31, 2021)

I've ordered from Crown and Canvas. Great advice about getting 1kg bags, which is what I've done.

Thanks for the video dutchy101, I'll give it another try when I get home this evening.


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