# Hello! Looking to start roasting at home? Advice/suggestions welcome



## Hom3br3w (Jun 10, 2018)

Hi all,

Firstly, let me start by introducing myself - my name is Ross and I'm looking at broadening my skill set. By this I mean learn a trade. I'm the type of person who learns by passion and trial and error, a sort of 'hands on' way, rather than sitting around reading books, etc.

I suppose my end game with all of this would be small scale production and sale. I would keep it local to begin with and just sell to friends and family, possibly local food markets, etc. I have a few ideas of how to differentiate my product but to begin with I need to learn how to roast.

I've spent the past few hours reading about small-scale roasters and I'm somewhat bamboozled. The Husky 500 looks lovely but seems quite complicated to begin with with lots of talk about 'mods' to get the best from it? Also, I don't know where to buy one in the UK - I could afford one however...

The other choices seem too expensive for me at this stage ($1500+) or are from what I consider unreliable sources (don't want to drop 2k on a machine which breaks and then have little chance of fulfilling warranty, etc).

This leaves me with, as you have probably guessed, the Gene Cafe Roaster? It's affordable, and can get it from a trustworthy vendor which suggests any warranty would be fulfilled and is covered by EU law, etc. However, does it provide enough control in order to learn from essentially zero, and possibly progress, etc? Will it serve my needs?

Currently, the only other idea I have is the Behmor 1600 (would have to import from the USA, via eBay, costing about £448 due to import fees + shipping). There is a lot of commentary about both online, but maybe someone whose owned both of them could recommend one (or something else), having kindly read about my intentions and skill (or lack of).

Am I correct that neither of these machines would allow me to hook up my computer and use roasting profiling software, such as Artisan? I like messing around with computers and so this would be a shame not to have it, but what's more important is that I get a 'feel' for what roasting is, and what different heat, temps, coolings, etc can yield.

Any other suggests, advice, comments, kindly appreciated.

Many thanks!


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Not sure where you based, but if you're considering the Huky 500 - you should check out the Cormorant CR600. I wrote a piece on it on here.

Both the other machines you mention would be hard to connect to Artisan - though I believe some people have managed to fit a bean temp probe into a Gene.

Shameless plug from me - I have Quest M3 in the classifieds as I'll be picking up my Corrmorant at the end of the month.

cheers Phil


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## Hom3br3w (Jun 10, 2018)

Beeroclock said:


> Not sure where you based, but if you're considering the Huky 500 - you should check out the Cormorant CR600. I wrote a piece on it on here.
> 
> Both the other machines you mention would be hard to connect to Artisan - though I believe some people have managed to fit a bean temp probe into a Gene.
> 
> ...


Wow great find! That thing looks like a game-changer to me


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

I started with an I roast 2 (can save profiles) then moved onto x2 gene cafes (manual), then saved up for the Bullet R1 (fully automated) which I now have 2 also. Learn roasting first on something not to expensive (i.e 2nd hand, I wouldn't buy new unless you know what you want) then you can get a feel of how you want to go fwd is my best advice.


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## Hom3br3w (Jun 10, 2018)

Coffeejon said:


> I started with an I roast 2 (can save profiles) then moved onto x2 gene cafes (manual), then saved up for the Bullet R1 (fully automated) which I now have 2 also. Learn roasting first on something not to expensive (i.e 2nd hand, I wouldn't buy new unless you know what you want) then you can get a feel of how you want to go fwd is my best advice.


Thanks for chipping in Jon.

How's the bullet working out? They're out of stock at the moment - I know I'm jumping the gun so to speak but the Bullet caught my attention as did the Dalien Amazon 1KG ($$$$!!!)


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

Hom3br3w said:


> Thanks for chipping in Jon.
> 
> How's the bullet working out? They're out of stock at the moment - I know I'm jumping the gun so to speak but the Bullet caught my attention as did the Dalien Amazon 1KG ($$$$!!!)


Well you have two camps, I haven't used the Amazon, but it's a lovely roaster but maybe more of a traditional roaster. As I mentioned I came more the electronic route, I roast, gene cafe etc, so I liked the electronic control of the roast, especially saving & replaying of profiles. This is what the Bullet does really well & I find when I just have to churn out repeated orders of the same roast the profile playback is a life saver, as it does get repetitive.

Like the Amazon, you also have good manual control to do individual and sample roasts, but also with the ability to record it. Also remember, the Money side is less of an issue once you are earning money from it, as you will also need to invest in a decent grinder, bags, seal machines etc for your business.

Finally I'd say the Gene Cafe 101 would be a killer machine if only they would add some kind of memory function to save roast profiles.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Having started with the Gene and then progressed to the Amazon, my advice would be to not try and learn on a 1kg roaster. Roasters do not suffer inexperience well! And wasting a kilo a time gets expensive!

I would also suggest getting some experience without the electronic whizzbangs is a good idea.

Think of it like learning to drive a car. If you learnt in an automatic, just how much do you know about driving and being in the right gear at the right speed at the right time and in the right place?

The Gene is limited in what it can do, but as a learner so will you be.

The Gene nursed me through the early stages of learning the roasting (very) basics, and I got acceptable and or good results.

With hindsight, I know I would have been disheartened/given up/£broke£ with the Amazon. The Amazon can still sit me firmly on my ****, but learning from the Gene, I have learnt 'the signs' .

Home roasting a great hobby, and I hope if you take it up, you will have success and enjoyable coffees!


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

Batian said:


> Having started with the Gene and then progressed to the Amazon, my advice would be to not try and learn on a 1kg roaster. Roasters do not suffer inexperience well! And wasting a kilo a time gets expensive!
> 
> I would also suggest getting some experience without the electronic whizzbangs is a good idea.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with above, my only add is that "electronic whizzbangs" can be helpful as you can visualize where you went wrong in a roast. Agree that the Gene is probably your best bet at this stage.


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## morningdog (Jul 15, 2018)

I started 3 months ago on a Gene 101. It is a great little roaster and good to get confidence with. Only two things to keep an eye on - time and temp.

You will find that you start to identify the right colour and exhaust smells. I can't hear any cracking because of the noise of the rolling beans, so I step outside and put my ear near the vent hose - hear first crack around 230 degrees C every time. good luck with what you decide


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

morningdog said:


> I I can't hear any cracking because of the noise of the rolling beans, so I step outside and put my ear near the vent hose - hear first crack around 230 degrees C every time. good luck with what you decide


Try using a cardboard tube from kitchen foil/cling film as a hearing aid. Care needed if using near drum!

I find a good spot is on the chaff collector shoulder.

Other users on the forum have success with an engineers stethoscope---£5/6 from eBay.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

1. Don't stick a computer on a roaster when your learning...because you won't learn very much. Better to use a roast log, ears, eyes, nose and really watch what's going on. Make notes as well.

2. Get a small roaster first and some general experience *can* be a very good idea, there are pros and cons to that approach. If you do get a small roaster, be prepared to upgrade 6 months later, as you will have learnt everything you can from it by then. It can only teach you so much. *You can also go straight to a 1kg roaster, lots of people do. A bit of good guidance early on and you can be up and running with better results than a home hobby roaster within 10kg of coffee and coffee you will be more than happy to share after around 20kg*. Roasting by numbers (just bunging the beans in and heating them up) in a quality 1kg roaster gives better results than years of experience with a home hobby roaster!

3. A Dalian Amazon is not as expensive as you think. It might cost you £3300 or whatever they are. However even after a year or two, if you decide it's not for you, you would still get a lot of that money back. In fact the longer you have it, the more of your initial investment you are likely to get back as the new roaster continues to slowly increase in price. It's a commercial grade roaster able to roast up to 90Kg per week (based on 3 days roasting for 7.5 hours per day). You can of course roast more...but by then you will want a larger roaster. It also doesn't have to be cleaned (or deep cleaned) every 10-20Kg. I have roasted 100s of Kg in mine and have not had to clean it yet. This is apart from the normal emptying the chaff tray and a quick wipe down. It also still looks brand new.

My advice is based on having used quite a few roasters in my time....as well as consulting for companies that make them. it's a bit like buying a bigger motorcycle after passing your test and riding a 125cc bike. Lots of people in the old days used to say, oh get a 250, then a 400, then a 500, then a 600 etc.. In reality larger bikes were safer, they gripped better, stopped better, were more stable and the advice was flawed. it was far better for people to get a larger bike rather than work their way up. I have been roasting a long time now and although there is a lot to learn (I still have a lot to learn), getting good results fast isn't that hard, excellence takes a little longer.

There are a lot of myths in roasting, perpetuated by the Internet. Here is one: Coffee should be packed with a 1 way valve otherwise the bags explode because of all the stored gas! The bags below were all packed within a short time of roasting on 8 July, they hold 300g because that is all I can get in them and heat seal them properly. I do squeeze as much air out as possible when heat sealing. The bags do NOT have valves and they are Kraft paper foil lined heat sealable (I print them myself). The CO2 gas has puffed up the bags, but they won't burst, at least none have during months of testing. I have had them be fine after almost 3 months. The Co2 produced is limited, because there is only the O2 in the bags for the coffee to work with, no more can get in, as I don't believe even the best Wico one way valves are that "one way". I have about £200 of one way bags top quality with Wico valves, that I probably won't ever use...

You notice no gusset, because they are much cheaper like that.....sure they don't stand up, but I don't care. The most important thing, in the place where they are kept I can smell *nothing*, no coffee smell at all until they are opened. This is exactly how I like it.









If you are serious about selling your roasts and perhaps turning a hobby business into a real one....you couldn't do better than a Dalian Amazon. I helped redesign it (mainly the control systems) for relaunch into the UK market. For example I am drinking a Rawandan (specific lot number), it's oozing with black cherry and intense dark chocolate notes. Could *I have* got those flavours using a Gene Cafe or other small roaster...possibly a little, but probably not. Would a *new Dalian 1kg user* get them...possibly, but possibly not, with my roast logs, much more likely of course. Would someone who has had a Dalian 3-6 months get them...yeah much more chance of getting them regularly. Oh, I should add, I don't get any commission if you buy a 1kg Dalian, or any benefit whatsoever, apart from the satisfaction of knowing there is another happy owner.

I have linked a couple of Videos from the USA, sure these guys sell roasters and so have a vested interest and he doesn't really sell little 200-300g roasters, but the commercial grade stuff.

*Pay special note to what he says about automation at around 12m onward*s






There is a lot to think about in those....I want to add one last thing....mass is a good thing in a roaster. A larger 1kg roaster (A Dalian can actually roast 1.2kg, I put 1.1kg in mine per batch, for reasons of bag size). A heavy commercial roaster with a 1kg batch size will always roast better than something like a Gene Cafe Behmor etc..


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> 1. Don't stick a computer on a roaster when your learning...because you won't learn very much. Better to use a roast log, ears, eyes, nose and really watch what's going on. Make notes as well.


Completely agree


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## RDC8 (Dec 6, 2016)

@DavecUK - Great post. Lots of information there.

Just wondering where you sourced those bags from ... I`m always on the lookout for something new to try packaging wise.

Thanks


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

RDC8 said:


> @DavecUK - Great post. Lots of information there.
> 
> Just wondering where you sourced those bags from ... I`m always on the lookout for something new to try packaging wise.
> 
> Thanks


Got em from the bay...and they laser print too (well at least they do on my printer...can't guarantee they will work on all. You can also use a label printer I have a QL-500, which can make some nice labels and stick those on as well. Cost is around 14p per bag....they were 13 or 12p per bag when I first bought them.I got myself 200, but they come in lots of 100. They heat seal well with an impulse heat sealr set to 7 or 8, I usually to two seal lines.


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