# Accidental La Pav...



## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

This is just the short story of my happy little Thursday afternoon accident.

You know how it is, you have things you dream of in your watch list on ebay.
Most of them are things you'd like to own one day, but you've no real intention of purchasing one right now.
Things like an old La Pavoni, I mean, just look at them! They're things of beauty, folks on the forums are restoring them all the time.
Maybe you could even find room in the kitchen for a pretty little machine like that?
Occasionally you might see one ending for what seems cheaper than the going rate and consider putting a cheeky low ball bid in.
So you do put a bid in, and then sometimes you end up winning the blimmin' auction! ?‍♂

This is roughly how I've ended up buying a Europiccola which should be working it's way to me next week.
I'll be honest, I'm fairly excited!

Now, she's not perfect. Are they ever?
It's got the usual chipped paint work on the base, some chrome looks to be missing on the lever arm but the rest of it is in good order.
Apparently she powers up and dispenses water from the group and steam arm so that's a good sign. 
The base doesn't look to have too much rust either, what rust is there matches the remains of the brown paintwork!
The main things missing from machine according to the seller were a "coffee sump" (which I now realise means it's got no portafilter!) and the drip tray grill.
Thankfully these seem to be fairly commonly available, so I'm not too worried!

Date wise, using https://www.voltage110.com/dating-pavoni-levers1 so far I've come up with:

Badge: Black and silver logo, 1979-1992
Switch: Red (power) white (hi/low) rocker, with "I" & "II" graphics, 1979-1991
Base: Steel, painted, plastic drip tray insert appears under chrome "grid," 1975-1983 (no screw hole in the base of the drip tray)

So I'm reckoning she's born somewhere in that period 1979-1983? A bit like me! Perhaps it was fate that brought us together.
Or maybe it's a Frankenstein job, but we'll have to see. ?

Now I just need to start looking for the replacement parts, spares and deciding what colour to re-paint the base....
I've always fancied Italian flag green! Or would that be heresy and she must be restored to stock colours?!

Anyway, looking forward to putting the shared knowledge here to use and hopefully adding some of my own experiences.
I'll try not to ask too many questions!

Enough words, here's some pics from the seller showing what I've got to look forward to.

Anyone on here?! ?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Looks great. I had a brown vase similar to that, and I think that was a 1979. Hopefully it will have it written on the underside of the base.

Good luck with it. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

If you take the bottom base lid off, there's usually the month/year written in it.

For the PF, you might as well go directly to a bottomless one. Just make sure it's a 49mm one, for the "old group".


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

AWWW congrats!
Another LaPav resurrection 

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_ep.htm

correct, production month and year will be just where @MediumRoastSteam said, they used to stamp it onto underside of drip tray - later applying stickers (that might have come off btw).

Apart from lever rod, chrome looks terrific! Maybe you can buff it up using Autosol or similar.
You might want to strip the paint and get rid of/stabilise rust on the base, maybe have it sandblasted to avoid using chemicals.

Will be interesting to see what condition piston, shower screen and surrounding gaskets are in. Prepare to get a service kit!
A bottomless PF is deffo a good idea for two reasons: very limited space underneath spout(s) and a notorious preference for one sided pours on double spout. The latter I believe is just poor spout geometry.
After all, capacity of both basket and group aren't overwhelming, so you will find yourself pouring single shots all the time, anyways. There is literally no point in splitting the little outcome


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

> For the PF, you might as well go directly to a bottomless one. Just make sure it's a 49mm one, for the "old group".


 Cheers for the sizing on the PF!
Looks like you can get at bottomless with basket for about 40 quid.

I suppose I'd have wanted one anyway even if it came with the stock spouted jobbie.
Besides, how else am I supposed to share delicious coffee with the worktop/walls/ceiling without a bottomless? ?


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## Ladycoffeegeek (May 16, 2019)

I love seeing old machines getting restored! Looking forward to following your La Pavoni adventure! ?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

rippolaris said:


> Besides, how else am I supposed to share delicious coffee with the worktop/walls/ceiling without a bottomless? ?


 the good thing with manual levers is you can stop or reduce pressure instantly when something goes wrong!
And trust me, things will go wrong when you start into brewing with your LaDiva


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

You'll have fun restoring this, I've just today finished my restoration and it's worth it ?


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

Cheers folks. It may be arriving today, so might get chance to crack it open this weekend.
I haven't bought any bits yet in terms of seals or gaskets yet until I see what else is needed apart from them.
The 3 leg oil filter wrench and Molykote 111 are on their way though!


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

So, the La Pav arrived today.
The seller was a complete diamond and contacted me first and asked if he could partially dismantle it, taking off the lever for transit so there were less protrusions to get bent on it's journey over the Pennines.
It turned out to be Parcel Force proof and arrived intact. 
Very well wrapped up, padded out and double boxed in the finest heavy duty Monster Munch (Roast Beef ❤ and Pickled Onion ?!) boxes.
A man of taste, to be sure.

It was hastily unboxed on kitchen floor before being transferred to the workshop (aka incredibly messy, badly lit garage).
But wait! We need to see that she fires up before I take it apart!
Filled up with the finest South Yorkshire council pop (liquid limestone, will run it on bottled but it's getting stripped and de-coked anyway), and hooked up to an RCD and turned on with a stick. No worries here, it lights up and starts kettling away like a good un. Water from the shower screen, steam from the wand and it didn't trip the mains!

Filthy shots to follow
Chrome body looks good, bolts show no signs of being attacked









Flaky rust that doesn't look too promising









Drip tray looks OK-ish though









Group head needs some pulycaf









Underside looks OK apart from that one area of flaky rust. No date code though  









Is that white insulator disc safe or asbestos/something nasty?









The tank isn't too badly scaled either


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

So to add to the shopping list, rust stabiliser and body filler to sort that base out.

Does anyone know if there's a relevant rubber/plastic foot for Pavonis of this era?
The brassed/galvanised/whatever metal base plate doesn't look like it would take one of the plastics bases you can get from here:
https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Base-and-Parts/c-168.aspx?AttributeValueIDs=262


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

It looks like a 78-83 model. It's practically identical to the one I've restored although I've not seen that metal base. Check out this site http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_schemi_eng.htm

This has wiring diagrams for all models and basically is the Holly Bible for building / rebuilding an LP. This guy knows his shit ?.

There is also rubber / plastic feet for the plastic bases. My base is a later base that screws on from the top. Maybe one of the other members on here has seen your particular base before @jimbojohn55?


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

Thanks for the link!
I've got that site, plus your own and jimbojohn's resto threads bookmarked for reference.
In fact, those threads are probably responsible for me buying this one! 
I'd been keeping my eyes out for a bargain one from Italy, but the import duty/VAT on top always made them a little too expensive for an on the whim purchase (Must be the Yorkshireman coming through).
Seeing this one in the UK and getting it for £130 inc postage seemed like a good deal, though I didn't realise it needed a portafilter at the time.

The pic for the 78-84 on Francesco's site looks exactly like the base on this one with the two side screw holes.
I did some more googling and there's one or two mentions around of these bases with just two self tapping screws on the side of the base that bite into the shiny inner bottom plate.
Not sure what the original plastic/rubber bit would have been quite like though, or if it indeed had one.

I did see this here spares site mentioning that the ABS base "..could be modified to work with older models which have a rubber base that was attached with side screws by carefully drilling holes through the thin ABS edge." So I might just do that if it's the easily available spares option.

What's the consensus on these fancy silicone Cafelat V piston gaskets? Worth sourcing or will the standard gaskets do just fine?


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

rippolaris said:


> Thanks for the link!
> I've got that site, plus your own and jimbojohn's resto threads bookmarked for reference.
> In fact, those threads are probably responsible for me buying this one!
> I'd been keeping my eyes out for a bargain one from Italy, but the import duty/VAT on top always made them a little too expensive for an on the whim purchase (Must be the Yorkshireman coming through).
> ...


 I've personally not tried the caffe lat Gaskets. All my Gaskets came from https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/la-pavoni.html

Kimeo the owner is a very nice chap and will go out his way to accommodate you. He has everything you would require for a rebuild. Postage for small parts is about 4 euros and takes between 5-7 days, his shipping is usually quite good. Hopefully you don't encounter any problems but if you do I've found everyone on this forum extremely helpful!


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

Finally got a little time to start looking at the Pavoni and stripping it down a little.

I was a bit apprehensive at taking it apart, but it seems to be quite a simple beast.

I've brushed the rust and applied rust stabiliser, then a few days later sanded it back a little. Still some brown rust underneath so re-applied more rust stabiliser and we're getting somewhere like a solid non rusty surface to work from. There is some amount of material missing though that's going to need smoothing out before painting, but we're not talking gaping holes. I might have to fill in the missing material with JB Weld, then sand and re-shape before painting.

I've had the piston out, it's not the worst I've seen and just has some congealed coffee oils on the piston/shower screen. Nothing some Pulycaf can't fix.
It could have not been used much and then put in storage, or it's been worked on in the past as there's still traces of clean-ish grease on the top of the piston. All the bolts and parts have come apart with minimal persuasion so far.

When I took the sight glass upper plug out there was some strange piece of twisted up metal in there above the sight glass that I can't see on part diagrams.








It's the two brass pieces above. I think it was originally joined together but it was a piece of twisted up metal when I got it out and when trying to re-shape it snapped in half.
Is that just some earlier type of sight glass spacer that was replaced by something else later down the line? I can't find it on any part diagrams.
It also seems to have chipped the top of the sight glass, so I'll need to add that to the list of spares.


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

So the cleaning and stripping of the La Pav has been going quite nicely so far.
I've descaled the boiler, cleaned everything, taken the wiring out etc and it's all sat in it's mostly component parts for now.

I did run into a problem trying to get the boiler off of the base though.
Summoning the trusty 3 leg oil filter wrench, this happened:








Bugger. High quality welding job there. Well, it's still got two legs, so lets have another go:









Curses and double drat! There was more rust holding that together than weld.
This was a brand new Bergen oil filter wrench, so not the very cheapest one on ebay.
At least the seller gave me my money back when I sent him the photos!
Oh well, back to the drawing board for now.

Oh yeah, who cares about broken tools, more coffee machine bits!
Will a cleaned, lightly polished and now slightly greasy piston do for now?


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

If you have done the penetrating oil 'soak' on the boiler nut that must be seriously set! I wonder if it has had threadlocker on it???? It is often used to correct when the boiler starts to rotate of centre.

A tip passed on to me by @jimbojohn55 in another similar thread, is to use a repeated tighten/screw and loosen/unscrew action to 'crack' what is seizing the pieces.


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

Batian said:


> If you have done the penetrating oil 'soak' on the boiler nut that must be seriously set! I wonder if it has had threadlocker on it???? It is often used to correct when the boiler starts to rotate of centre.
> 
> A tip passed on to me by @jimbojohn55 in another similar thread, is to use a repeated tighten/screw and loosen/unscrew action to 'crack' what is seizing the pieces.


 Thanks again for the tips. The boiler to base ring seems to be pretty well seated.
I can't move the base at all.
I wasn't even giving the filter wrench that much welly when it lost it's legs. It looks like I got a duffer there.
I haven't got any plusgas or similar kicking around at the moment, just WD40/GT85 type stuff which probably isn't going to make much of a dent but I've been putting some on anyway. 
Is it worth getting some heavy duty penetrating spray and/or a blowtorch on there? (With due care and attention to the flammable nature of the former! ????)

I was looking around for something to make a removal tool with. I was thinking maybe put some M5 bolts through a wooden disc and tighten them directly into the element mounting holes on the ring. Then affix a nice screw a nice long handle on to the disc to give me plenty of torque. I wasn't sure if that approach using those bolt holes was going to run the risk of totally knackering the boiler to base ring and it's 30 quid for a new one!
I've got another filter wrench on it's way so hopefully I'll have more luck this time!


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Mine took several days of drip drip drip penetrating oil (every few hours) before it finally gave in to the jimbo method above.

With regard to the possibility of 'threadlock' having been used, it is possible that the 'threadlock' could have been applied to the joining surfaces between the ring the gasket and the base???

I used a Black and Decker Workmate, the boiler hanging over the edge and the hold on the grouphead being cushioned with stout pieces of a corrugated cardboard box to prevent marking. I also used the back and forth action on the base whilst it was locked into the Workmate. I can not remember, but I think that may have been the first sign of a submission!


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Any luck?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

rippolaris said:


> So, the La Pav arrived today.
> The seller was a complete diamond and contacted me first and asked if he could partially dismantle it, taking off the lever for transit so there were less protrusions to get bent on it's journey over the Pennines.
> It turned out to be Parcel Force proof and arrived intact.
> Very well wrapped up, padded out and double boxed in the finest heavy duty Monster Munch (Roast Beef ❤ and Pickled Onion ?!) boxes.
> ...


 The heating element isn't original to this model so the good news is it's been replaced and hopefully works. I've not seen a metal base for these, they're usually rubber.

I had a nightmare getting a boiler off one of mine. In the end I took it to my mechanic, we clamped it into a vice and hammered the ring loose.


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

Sorry for the lack of updates on this one, bet you all thought I've given up! 😄

I took delivery of a pair of three leg wrench like these : Wrenches
I found the smaller of the two wrenches with the rectangular section legs engaged on the boiler ring better than the big round leg wrench. The big one only seemed to engage on two of the lugs at once.
So with the La Pav secured in a bench vice I set about the boiler ring with a blowtorch, hit the lugs a few times with a punch and a lump hammer, then engaged the wrench.
The little wrench is 1/2 inch drive too so I could attach a meaty old breaker bar and... it still didn't move.
So I started wailing on the breaker bar with a mallet and suddenly the ring admitted defeat!
I'm not sure what exactly it was that did the trick to be honest, it was a swine to shift.









Snugged right up to the lugs, but a bit blurry:









And now the La Pav is in all it's dismantled bits waiting for me to get back round to it.
There's a lot been going on recently unfortunately so it's not been top of my list to crack on with it.
It's mostly cleaned up and ready to go, just a few bits that need a fettle and the small matter of the base.
I've a basket of spares ready to finalise and buy from theespressoshop and I still need a portafilter.
I was going to try and get the base powder coated but with everything closed for the foreseeable future I might have to fall back to spray cans.
It's a pity Hammerite don't do more colours. What's the best I can do with a rattle can? Is there anything as durable as Hammerite with more colour choice?
I was quite looking forward to getting it done in Fern green and having a matching Mazzer SJ to go with it (I already have that, just needs a paint job and re-assembling. Sounds familiar!)

Thanks for watching


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

rippolaris said:


> Sorry for the lack of updates on this one, bet you all thought I've given up! 😄
> 
> I took delivery of a pair of three leg wrench like these : Wrenches
> I found the smaller of the two wrenches with the rectangular section legs engaged on the boiler ring better than the big round leg wrench. The big one only seemed to engage on two of the lugs at once.
> ...


 Have you though about getting it powdercoated? Cost me 25 pounds to get sandblasted and powdercoated. I'm having the same problem as you at the moment I have another pavoni project I'm working on and I can't get the flange off. Persevering as we speak 😂.


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