# Wet Puck > Dry Puck... Finally!



## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

Woohoo! Think I've finally nailed my really wet puck syndrome!

Motta tamper arrived in the post this morning... Works a treat! Basically it was all down to my technique and dosage. Dosage is now up to about 19/20g and no dry puck whatsoever. Examined the puck afterwards and was nicely distributed throughout.

I managed to get the extra gram'age in by a couple of taps on the worktop before distribution and tamping. Had to change the grind quite dramatically though!

Now I'm just getting a double stream out of the portafilter and a few random sprites but I'm sure that can be resolved with a bit of practice.

Technique before:


Weigh out 16g beans.

Beans in to grinder.

Grind in to glass.

Break up clumps in glass with wooden skewer.

Pour from glass in to portafilter

Distribute and level off

Light tamp with rubbish plastic tamp with Gaggia

NESW for loose grounds

Final firm'ish tamp with polish turn

In to group head

Pull shot


Now my new technique with a bit of troubleshooting and new better fitting Motta tamper.


Weigh 20g of beans

Pour beans in to grinder

Grinder directly in to portafilter

Tap on worktop to settle grinds

Distribute and level off

Firm'ish tamp and polish turn

In to group head

Pull shot


I've dropped my steps from 11 to 8 in a matter of an hour. Learning is good!









No longer getting a wet puck anymore! More play tomorrow I think. Need to reduce the two streams from the bottomless portafilter to just the one


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Good stuff









Just for kicks, try this... it will help work out if distribution is part of the spritzing issue. Grind only until the bottom of the basket is no longer visible (a thin layer), then give it a stir (using paperclip/guitar string/wire etc). A slight tap on the table. Grind another few millimeters, stop, stir again, slight table tap. Repeat again, until full. At this point the basket will be full and will also be perfectly distributed. Don't do any levelling or sweeping, as this will redistribute the grinds and may create uneven areas. Just tamp once, polish and remove any excess.

This is a slightly laborious technique but when I can be bothered to do it I get a lovely shot with no spritzing.

Another thing is that I suspect spritzing is more likely to happen on machines with OPV set to higher pressure than 9bar, and since the Classic is set at 15bar as standard then that could be part of the cause. Hey... I'm full of unproven theories, me


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

Oooooo hadn't even thought about the opv valve! Good idea.

May have to look into that!

Might give your other idea a go too









Cheers Mike


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

Tried 20g today and now almost choking the machine! Grrrrrr!

Down to 18g, better but a tiny bit on the slow side. Shall try 17g next shot.


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh also, tried making it into a latte... ended up as a cappuccino! Haha.

Really can't get this milk thing right! I think the milk jug I bought may be a little on the small side! Oops


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I've noticed a fair difference in all aspects of puck, extraction, crema and soggy puck based on whether or not my beans have just come out of the fridge or not.

I'm now trying to get them to room temperature before grinding. This reducing clumping and makes it easier to distribute/tamp more coffee.

I've been running about 15.5g on my 15g VST but might try 16g today as the beans age.

Might be something to think about?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Be careful with bringing refrigerated beans to room temperature. Could be asking for condensation problems. Make sure they're airtight if you're doing this.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I took some beans out of the fridge today to reach room temperature, still in the air tight container.

When I ground them they clumped together terribly. Any ideas why this was?

Is it better to use beans straight out of the fridge? Best way to reduce clumps?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

There have been many discussions and experiments regarding freezing and refrigeration of beans. Opinions are divided but there are convincing arguments that freezing helps delay staling if it is done correctly, under the right conditions... e.g. at least -10F/-23C.

Refrigerating doesn't offer such credible arguments.

As a home barista rather than a commercial roaster I see no great benefit in doing either... particularly refrigerating. It could even contribute to faster staling... but once again it's difficult to know when there are opposing views. But maybe that's part of the problem, or maybe there was air inside your airtight container and it condensed in the fridge and formed moisture on the beans... that would be my suspicion.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

My current line of thinking is storing fresh roasted beans at room temperature in a vacuum storage container such as this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000XTFQZM/ref=mp_s_a_8?qid=1325461672&sr=8-8

Move away from using fridge/freezer all together.

However storing in cooler conditions will obviously reduce the rate of oxidation.

But removing oxygen all together should stop oxidation completely


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Perhaps... but there are also reports that vacuum storage can suck out the CO2 from the bean, thereby increasing the rate of staling. As usual there are no definitive right answers, so I'd just suggest perhaps doing a little digging first to be sure that you have all the info before buying equipment.


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

MikeHag said:


> Good stuff
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just tried your advice Mike and wow, first time my puck hasn't had half an inch of water on the top. I eased up on my tamping, did the dosing in tiny steps and got a decent shot first time. Cheers!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

The pleasure's all mine. Great reading of how much you're liking good espresso!


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

So is the trick to get a dry puck? Mine are always wet, more reason to buy a grinder then!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

yes dry pucks that when you knock them out stay together, you should be able to stack them up and (I was boed once and made a pyramid) anyway, if you take a knife and cut through the middle of the puck, creating two semi circles, you should also see that the puck is even throughout, a faded slight colour change from top to bottom


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Mine are always soggy with a little water on top and make a right mess when I bang them in the bin. Ah well that is probably cos I don't have the right grind, to try to remedy this I've been over tamping. Oh so many lessons to learn. Saving starts today for a shiny new grinder.


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

Mine were like that Jason. Now they're almost like what Geordie described. Fresh beans and a decent grinder is the difference, oh and Mike's technique.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

It's a strange thing. Fresh beans often make a huge difference to puck texture, but sometimes with fresh beans you stlll get a soggy one, so at that point achieving a firm puck is more to do with dose... usually updosing helps. Different beans (and hence grinds) seems to expand and absorb water differently, so there is no right answer. Often on here we do say that it doesn't matter if the puck is soggy as long as it tastes good. There have been opinions thrown around on various forums for years... just google Puckology... and although I do like a nice, firm puck (oo-er) because it is cleaner and more convenient, some of the best espressos I've had have come from wet, soggy ones. So I'd say go with fresh beans, and see if you can get a non-soggy puck, but don't worry about it too much if the coffee you're making tastes good.

Also, eventually I think people get better grinders/develop better technique etc, and end up doing much less to the basket of grinds before tamping. Many of the top baristas just grind then tamp without any redistribution. Personally all I do these days is a quick Stockfleths Movement (even that is rare in the UKBC these days). But there's definitely a benefit to be had for home baristas in taking the time to do some form of WDT (Weiss Distribution Technique).


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

I actually think having a dry or wet puck makes no difference, I challenge anyone to achive a consistent dry puck without sacrificing shot quality with a VST basket! The thing is, the solenoid can only evac a certain amount of water from the top, so if the top of your puck sits below that level, you will always end up with water left behind.

Thats my my theory anyway..


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

i did, and didnt get a single complaint ;p but what matters is taste, plain and simple if u have a wet puck but ur coffee tastes stunning so what, ur not under scerutiny at uk/wbc level.


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification. Beforehand mine weren't just soggy but soaking and hardly held form and these produced terrible shots. I do think it's a combination of technique, beans and grinder that have made the difference but as you said Outlaw, I still get a little water on the top sometimes but the shot tastes good.


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