# Elizabeth Steam issue?



## Tempest

I run out of steam what seems like really easily. I can't do two jugs of milk back to back. The second one runs out by 60C. They're only about 180ml of milk a time, just a small Rhino pitcher. I started out trying to do enough for two drinks at one time and it was clearly running out by the end and unable to texture so I switched to two smaller lots, assuming by the time I'd poured the latte, it'd be ready to go for the hot chocolate but nope. I feel like it was better when I first got it but still not as powerful as I was expecting on the second pitcher but now it's actually out of steam by the time the second one hits 60.

I noticed yesterday and today that it was out of steam before the end of the second pitcher even if the second pitcher was half an hour later. For example, machine gets turned on at 730. I make first latte just after 8am. This one works fine. I sit down and drink it/deal with some emails. I go to make second latte around 830, steaming 180ml of milk can't be done without running out of steam/slow heating by the end of the second steaming even though there was a 30 minute wait for it to recover. Seems to recover between then and the next 2 drinks which are made together at around 10am but it will run out of steam by the end of the second pitcher of milk at 10am too. And it runs out without any sort of refill action happening. Anyone with thoughts? It's a bit disappointing but open to the fact maybe I'm doing something wrong? For the bigger pitcher my GC with PID actually managed better which doesn't seem like it can be right when this is supposed to have a steam boiler double the size isn't it?


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Tempest - it shouldn't. Something is not right. In contrast to you, I steam 2x 250ml of milk one after the other. Sometimes 10 mins apart, sometimes 15 mins, sometimes 30 sec apart. It's never been an issue.

So, questions:

- what's the water you are using like? Is it hard in any way?
- what are the PID settings like? Default or modified?
- do you flush the steam wand before steaming?
- does the machine auto-fill when you turn it on, or beforehand? Try to listen to the auto-fill. Usually after a shot with steam pre-infusion, or when you first turn the machine on in the morning. Or after steaming.
- are you steaming and brewing at the same time?
- Next time this happens, when it runs out of steam, press the + button and then again. It will show you the actual brew temp on the first click and the steam temp on the second click.


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## FrancescoS

That's bizarre. I am not a steaming expert by any chance, but I usually steam 290ml for two cappuccino at 9 am and other two for lunch time, no issues whatsoever. 🤔
I think Dave has also uploaded a video some time ago where he was steaming for 3 minutes straight before it started dying away

At what temperature have you set up your machine?


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## Paul_from_Oz

Could economy mode be getting in the way?

Since the steam involves no pumping, all I can think of is that the temperature is out, there is a pressure leak somewhere, or there is a blockage somewhere along the steam piping or valve.


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## Tempest

So...

- bought machine brand new, has only ever been run on Ashbeck bottled water from Tesco, has never had a drop of anything else in it added by me

- PID settings are DaveC advised set for the machine

- Flush the steam wand briefly before steaming, just until water stops and steam starts

- It auto fills when you turn it on briefly. Typically its my husband turning it on and I'm still upstairs getting ready but when I do turn it on on weekends or what have you it does a small auto fill then. It did a big one this morning after I'd used the hot water function to run off some hot water into my cup, but no, I don't think it always does run the pump after a shot. I'll pay more attention when I make the next one. It never runs the pump just because I've steamed. Only when I've brewed. And then yesterday it clearly had run out of steam after making the second drink and that flow would have been make one shot, steam one small latte of milk, sit for 30 mins, pull another shot, steam second lot of milk, steam ran out.

-Brew temp sits at 94 even tho it's set for 93 but I don't sweat it. I'll check what the steam is saying next time it runs out and report back. I think its set for 145 but it could be 140 - its set for one of the temps Dave says is ok in his videos anyway.

I don't use economy mode really, it's only on for the morning shut off by 11am most days and all uses involve steam so given how economical it already is when just sitting there I just let it do it's thing and shut it off after my third or fourth drink of the morning as I very very rarely want a hot drink after lunch.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Ok, all good so far apart from running out of steam. Please let us know, when you commence steam, the temperature of the steam boiler *at the start *and *when *you run out of steam. 140C or 145C as standard is good.

By the sounds of it, I don't think there is, but is there a fill whist you are steaming?

Of course, even better, if this is a reproducible routine, it would be great if you could make a video of it so we understand what's going on.


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## Tempest

Ok, so steam boiler set for 140 - forgot to say I started out brew then steam. I got to a point where I was like I can brew and steam at the same time, dual boiler! and was doing that. Then I read another thread about how brewing with steam preinfusion whilst steaming might cause issues as the steam is trying to do two things at once so I stopped and went back to brew and then steam. It doesn't seem to change anything.

The second cup I just made now steamed fine so not reproducible today for the running out half an hour later on the second small pitcher behaviour. I can certainly video it running out on the large pitcher as that has happened just that way from day one. It never fills while steaming. It doesn't even always fill after brewing a shot I don't think. Will check before and after temps on next shot, didn't see this before the one I just made!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Tempest said:


> I got to a point where I was like I can brew and steam at the same time, dual boiler! and was doing that. Then I read another thread about how brewing with steam preinfusion whilst steaming might cause issues as the steam is trying to do two things at once so I stopped and went back to brew and then steam


 You can. That was me on the other thread. 😉 For best results, just make sure you do so *after t*he steam pre-infusion phase ends. Mine is set to end after 10 seconds. So, when I'm not half sleep in the morning and fancy brewing and steaming at the same time:

- purge wand;
- lock portafilter in;
- start shot;
- get pitcher ready under the steam wand;
- as soon as steam pre-infusion ends and you hear the pump, open the steam knob and steam away. 
- There's been the odd occasion where the auto-fill kicked in after the shot ended but I was still steaming (40s steaming time for 250ml of milk). Not the end of the world as it recovers quickly, but quite annoying. 
Give that a go one day.


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## Tempest

So, start temp for steam 140, mid temp 122, end temp 126. It did a really short refill after steaming, like pump ran for 1 or 2 seconds, steamed my big pitcher, likely about 350ml, and it didn't have enough steam to roll the milk at all, and had pretty much run out of umph by the end. No video as mid work day so not really time for anything like that until the weekend. I would just assume that pitcher is too big but again the GC could do it after the PID. It too would be running out by the end but it would have enough grunt to roll the milk after stretching pretty well before it got to that point. Liz doesn't have enough grunt from the start... Doing it the way above, steam after preinfusion, or steaming after brew is completely over doesn't make a bit of difference here I'm afraid, have now tried both today to same results.


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## MediumRoastSteam

OK, the behaviour seems fine with regards to auto-fill.

Let me check my steaming temperatures later on when I make a drink. I often use a jug filled with 250ml of cold milk, which ends up being 350ml after steaming. Could you try doing the same so we can compare results when you can? Let's keep things separate for the moment, so brew and then steam. I'll be interested in:

- Temp prior to steaming (Let's make sure it's around 140C before we open the steam knob, and let's make sure it's purged before hand);
- Temp mid steaming;
- Temp at the end of steaming;
- Total time (should be approx 40s).

And, just to make sure, have you made sure that the steam tip is not blocked and clean? You can use a toothpick or a pin to clean it up. You can also undo it, it just screws in.

And, are you certain your PID settings for steam are set correct?

i.e.: KPs: 2.0, KIs: 0.00, KDs: 0.00, Bs: 1, Es: 0


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Tempest - (I really like your forum name, and the picture of Toothless! 🤣)

So, I just make a kinderkafe - what our family refers to a barley cup concentrate - aka: the espresso shot - and steamed milk on top. This was for my son, followed by a latte for myself. Routine was as follows:

- Let machine come up to temp;
- Made the kinderkafe concentrate;
- Steamed 250ml of cold milk. Initial steam temp was 140C, mid 135C, end 132C. Took 39s.

Waited 5 minutes as trying to juggle work and a child doing remote schooling)

- Made an espresso shot using steam pre-infusion;
- Machine auto-fills for 1 or 2 seconds. Checked steam temp was 140C;
- steamed 250ml of cold milk. Initial steam temp was 139C, mid 134C, end 131C. Took 40s.


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## FrancescoS

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Tempest - (I really like your forum name, and the picture of Toothless! 🤣)
> 
> So, I just make a kinderkafe - what our family refers to a barley cup concentrate - aka: the espresso shot - and steamed milk on top. This was for my son, followed by a latte for myself. Routine was as follows:
> 
> - Let machine come up to temp;
> - Made the kinderkafe concentrate;
> - Steamed 250ml of cold milk. Initial steam temp was 140C, mid 135C, end 132C. Took 39s.
> 
> Waited 5 minutes as trying to juggle work and a child doing remote schooling)
> 
> - Made an espresso shot using steam pre-infusion;
> - Machine auto-fills for 1 or 2 seconds. Checked steam temp was 140C;
> - steamed 250ml of cold milk. Initial steam temp was 139C, mid 134C, end 131C. Took 40s.


 Same thing for me -- just steamed 250 ml or maybe a bit more, started at 139 ended at 129 in around 40 seconds


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## MediumRoastSteam

FrancescoS said:


> Same thing for me -- just steamed 250 ml or maybe a bit more, started at 139 ended at 129 in around 40 seconds


 Intriguing... It's a shame I don't have a bigger pitcher, otherwise I'd try 350ml of milk. The other thing I can think of is that 350ml of milk is pushing the poor Lizzy to its limits if the boiler is not full all the way - 122C still above 1 bar mind.

But let's wait for Tempest to get back to us. If she steams 250ml of milk and there's no issues, then it might be that 350ml is too much if the boiler is not filled up all the way. A quick workaround would be then to trigger an auto fill by purging 60ml through the hot water tap - remember, it mixes with the brew boiler - and give a good blast of steam before hand and wait for the auto fill to happen. It might even be that giving a good blast of steam before hand, like, a 15 second blast will trigger the auto-fill. The key is, if you want good steam, and for the maximum duration, make sure the boiler is full!


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## Tempest

Hey all,

So this morning, turned on, did a little fill like it always does, got breakfast stuff ready for when other half comes down from getting ready for the day and then machine was heated up ready to go. Made my first drink, brew showing 94, steam showing 140. Brewed the shot and started steaming once the shot was actually in the brew phase not the infusion phase. It did a fill after the shot whilst steaming but not a long one. I ran out of steam in the small pitcher. Started off like normal but by 40C it was roaring and when I purged at the end it was just a trickle. Edited to add forgot to mention end steam temp was 122C. It's getting worse, it's all over the place in terms of behaviour and I don't have a clue what could be causing it. That's worse than when it would run out in the middle of the second small pitcher. I also ran some hot water into my cup out of it at the very beginning of the process to try and trick it into doing whatever filling it needed to do but this doesn't seem to have made any difference. After I'd stopped doing everything and turned away from it to clean up, it filled again. My gut feeling is it isn't right but I don't know what would be wrong with it. I'm not kidding when I say the GC was better for steaming bigger amounts of milk. Smaller ones it didn't used to matter but it's getting worse.

Toothless is kind of my spirit animal. I have a lot of cats haha and he's very cat like. We have a ticketing system at work that we can pick avatars for as they're internal only, not seen customer side and this one is my internal avatar. I was a team leader until recently and then accepted a promotion to become a service delivery manager so being judgy and dubious of your ticket updates seems like a good fit haha. The nickname is one I've had since the days of MSN chat rooms in the early 2000s. I did tech support for MSN way back then and I was sysop Tempest. I'm always happy when it's not been nicked before me on a forum I want to use lol. Strangly enough I also get nicknamed trouble in quite a lot of workplaces lol.


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## FrancescoS

Very weird...how much milk did you steam this time? 350ml? 
Maybe it could be worth recording a video when you have time, so we can see the problem.

I would also suggest to open a ticket on Lelit Care and attach the video in question. They are very responsive

Hopefully more experienced users can help you, I am out of ideas 😅


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## Tempest

FrancescoS said:


> Very weird...how much milk did you steam this time? 350ml?
> Maybe it could be worth recording a video when you have time, so we can see the problem.
> 
> I would also suggest to open a ticket on Lelit Care and attach the video in question. They are very responsive
> 
> Hopefully more experienced users can help you, I am out of ideas 😅


 No, it was just enough for one average size latte, like 180ml. Just a small Rhino pitcher. An amount my GC with PID would have managed easily. Perhaps my next step should be reach out to Bella Barista and see if they have any thoughts.


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## cuprajake

seem to be hearing a few lelit issues atm


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## DavecUK

@Tempest One possibility is that it was on the cusp of an autofill and by steaming during the shot, the probe tip was exposed. In this situation the heating elements in the steam boiler will switch off and stay off until the shot completes...the boiler won't autofill, because it fecks up the shot (part of the espresso shot protection)



> It did a fill after the shot whilst steaming but not a long one.


 Once the probe tip is exposed, it puts enough cold water into the steam boiler to kill the temperature a bit, the fact it did it very soon after the shot indicates to me the high likelihood that the heating elements were off during the shot, the end logic is to autofill after a very short delay....(due to last shot protection/autofill during shot protection). The combo of heating elements off for some period during the shot, then the addition of cold water, before the elements finally come on, is the perfect storm.

*You were asked about your advanced settings*...might be worth checking those, in my review I link to a few Microsoft sway files (smartphone friendly) you can view for information on what they should be and how to do it.

Steaming is so powerful in the Elizabeth that there is no need to steam during the shot as you run the risk of creating that perfect storm sometimes. If you want to steam after the shot, it's going to whizz through that 350ml of milk very fast indeed. If it autofills, you will hear it and see the pressure drop. I suspect the problem is not the machine but the particular circumstances/way it's being used. If you can make a minor change to that, I believe it would be fine. I found the logic on the machine not only rock solid, but extremely clever.

It's one of the more powerful prosumer steamers out there and the fact even after a fill it still finished at just above 1 bar is good. Many prosumer machines drop instantly to 1.0 bar then finish at 0.7 or 0.6 (the elizabeth was still at 118 even after the autofill = 0.86 bar). The Expobar Brewtus twin boiler steam boiler was even factory set to just below 1.1 bar.

Why not try this test of mine and see if yours works the same way...set it to 140C (I think mine was set to that). Video it and let's see what happens.


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## Tempest

> 10 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> @Tempest One possibility is that it was on the cusp of an autofill and by steaming during the shot, the probe tip was exposed. In this situation the heating elements in the steam boiler will switch off and stay off until the shot completes...the boiler won't autofill, because it fecks up the shot (part of the espresso shot protection)
> 
> Once the probe tip is exposed, it puts enough cold water into the steam boiler to kill the temperature a bit, the fact it did it very soon after the shot indicates to me the high likelihood that the heating elements were off during the shot, the end logic is to autofill after a very short delay....(due to last shot protection/autofill during shot protection). The combo of heating elements off for some period during the shot, then the addition of cold water, before the elements finally come on, is the perfect storm.
> 
> *You were asked about your advanced settings*...might be worth checking those, in my review I link to a few Microsoft sway files (smartphone friendly) you can view for information on what they should be and how to do it.
> 
> Steaming is so powerful in the Elizabeth that there is no need to steam during the shot as you run the risk of creating that perfect storm sometimes. If you want to steam after the shot, it's going to whizz through that 350ml of milk very fast indeed. If it autofills, you will hear it and see the pressure drop. I suspect the problem is not the machine but the particular circumstances/way it's being used. If you can make a minor change to that, I believe it would be fine. I found the logic on the machine not only rock solid, but extremely clever.
> 
> It's one of the more powerful prosumer steamers out there and the fact even after a fill it still finished at just above 1 bar is good. Many prosumer machines drop instantly to 1.0 bar then finish at 0.7 or 0.6 (the elizabeth was still at 118 even after the autofill = 0.86 bar). The Expobar Brewtus twin boiler steam boiler was even factory set to just below 1.1 bar.
> 
> Why not try this test of mine and see if yours works the same way...set it to 140C (I think mine was set to that). Video it and let's see what happens.


 Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply. It's all set up to your settings and has been from day one but I will go double check this.

It's never coped with 350ml of milk. Not from day one. It's out of steam and barely gets to 60C. Now it's to the point where I have started finding I steam 180ish for my latte, refill the pitcher with about the same again to heat for the other half's hot chocolate and it's out of steam by the end of that second pitcher. I've never tried your steam test but I have never had the boiler fill while steaming. It just runs out of steam without any sort of a fill happening. The fill today seemed triggered by the end of the shot of espresso, it was nothing to do with the steaming. I'm about to do the two drink process now, not sure I can manage a vid but will see if I can figure the logistics!


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## DavecUK

Use the YouTube app on your smartphone, press the vid icon top middle somewhere, and it will video and auto upload to YouTube, then you can select it as unlisted.

If you are saying it cannot steam 350ml of milk *if you don't do anything else just steam, and it's not autofilling while you try*....you have seen my Vid, there's no way that 350ml of milk can't be steamed to 60/65C very rapidly by the Elizabeth (assuming it's working correctly) and certainly well within 2 minutes. So if yours cannot do it, then by definition, it must be faulty. The only thing is, so far I am concerned there's not enough hard data (certainly I cannot imagine what's happening, or what fault there could be if there is one)....lets see some videos to try and figure out what's going on....plus confirm all the settings are OK.

*I'll suggest again....do the steam test first, if there is a fault, or problem, it might be immediately apparent. It's a nice clean test with no other activities to get in the way...just make sure an autofill has run before the test and confirm the machine is up to 140C and the wand is purged. *

Every time you do a test with milk, making drinks, partial videos, moving around, holding a milk pitcher gauges not visible temp button not pressed to monitor steaming temps etc.. It all makes diagnosis really hard. Initially simplify the testing, lets get some data.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Tempest said:


> The fill today seemed triggered by the end of the shot of espresso, it was nothing to do with the steaming.


 This is a redherring and normal. Mine does exactly the same. Don't focus on the auto fills too much.


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## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This is a redherring and normal. Mine does exactly the same. Don't focus on the auto fills too much.


 If steam preinfusion is used, it can take enough water from the boiler for the probe tip to just lose contact with the water...this will ensure the steam boiler heating elements are off for the duration of the shot. Steaming after the shots and autofill, with a short wait, ensures that your steaming experience will be better.


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## Rob1

Could it be the level probe tip is pushed in too far?


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## DavecUK

Don't think so, they use the combined sensor and level probe...


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## Paul_from_Oz

Tempest said:


> It's never coped with 350ml of milk. Not from day one. It's out of steam and barely gets to 60C. Now it's to the point where I have started finding I steam 180ish for my latte, refill the pitcher with about the same again to heat for the other half's hot chocolate and it's out of steam by the end of that second pitcher.


 For what it is worth, I steam around 400ml of milk in a single jug every day. I think this takes around 1 minute 20 seconds or so (certainly under 2 mins) steaming the milk from about 4C to 65C.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Tempest - just wondering if you have an update here? I've been monitoring mine, and, to steam 250ml of milk from cold to 65C or thereabouts, it's consistently been taking 40s and the steam boiler temperature has never been below 132C at the end.


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## Tempest

Sorry been a very long week! So the update is it works fine now. I did the steam into a jar exercise, or a pint glass in my case as I didn't have a jar, and to be honest it was a bit weedy but it steamed for over two mins before it ran out/filled the boiler - I do have a video somewhere but it didn't seem remarkable.

And ever since then it's been able to steam the big jug of milk well enough to actually roll the milk and texture it. It could not do that before and as I said had even gotten worse to the point of running out of of steam in the small jug but yeah, better than ever now. Temp stays in the 130's the whole way through and isn't dipping into the 120s as it was either. So I guess I'll just monitor it.

No idea if something was partly blocked or if somehow an air bubble worked out of something or what but it is what it is. I'm guessing it's like a car, no point chasing a fault if the fault isn't happening.

The only thing is now it's quite burbly after you make a drink even if it's been on ages and I don't recall that particular noise before but it doesn't seem to leak or anything so yeah, guess I'll just monitor it and see how it goes. Always the way isn't it? Book a repair visit for something and it decides to stop doing it!


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## DavecUK




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## Tempest

As an update/extra info to this, after just finishing my espresso and moving on to steam for a while I decided to try steaming after pre-infusion had finished to see how I got on. Basically if I make a shot, set that aside and then steam, it will steam my large jug even overfull to make a latte and am 8oz hot chocolate without a problem, rolls the milk A+ and finishes with some steam in the tank to purge the wand after. If I wait until pre-infusion is over but brewing is running and start steaming even a 125ml flat white of milk while the shot pours, I run out of steam trying to do 125ml milk and there is barely a hiss of steam when you try to purge the wand when the milk eventually hits 60C, roaring all the way. This machine cannot brew and steam at once no matter when I start steaming. Now, that's not a huge issue time wise because 40 seconds to make a shot, you save 30 seconds max steaming whilst the shot pours. But my understanding is this version of a dual boiler should be able to multitask, leaving aside using some steam for the pre-infusion phase. Is this just a quirk or is something possibly wrong with it?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Tempest said:


> As an update/extra info to this, after just finishing my espresso and moving on to steam for a while I decided to try steaming after pre-infusion had finished to see how I got on. Basically if I make a shot, set that aside and then steam, it will steam my large jug even overfull to make a latte and am 8oz hot chocolate without a problem, rolls the milk A+ and finishes with some steam in the tank to purge the wand after. If I wait until pre-infusion is over but brewing is running and start steaming even a 125ml flat white of milk while the shot pours, I run out of steam trying to do 125ml milk and there is barely a hiss of steam when you try to purge the wand when the milk eventually hits 60C, roaring all the way. This machine cannot brew and steam at once no matter when I start steaming. Now, that's not a huge issue time wise because 40 seconds to make a shot, you save 30 seconds max steaming whilst the shot pours. But my understanding is this version of a dual boiler should be able to multitask, leaving aside using some steam for the pre-infusion phase. Is this just a quirk or is something possibly wrong with it?


 I did it this morning, coincidentally. Absolutely no issues with 250ml of cold milk. There has been times when the pump kicks in to refil the boiler when the shot is finished. So you need to make sure the steam wand is purged and the boiler re-filled prior you start your shot.

But as a rule of thumb, to be safe, with the Elizabeth and due to its tiny boiler size, you are better off always steaming after your shot, always making sure the steam wand is purged well beforehand.


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## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I did it this morning, coincidentally. Absolutely no issues with 250ml of cold milk. There has been times when the pump kicks in to refil the boiler when the shot is finished. So you need to make sure the steam wand is purged and the boiler re-filled prior you start your shot.
> 
> But as a rule of thumb, to be safe, with the Elizabeth and due to its tiny boiler size, you are better off always steaming after your shot, always making sure the steam wand is purged well beforehand.


 I've been ok with doing both at the same time but found it's better workflow to do the milk after the shot - for me both finish at about the same time so I'm left doing an octopus impression trying to close the steam valve and cut the shot in rapid succession.


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## DavecUK

The key advantages of a dual boiler are to separate steaming and brewing thermally. Hence better and selectable brew temp. It also allows the steam boiler to be switched off.

brewing at the same time as producing an espresso shot, is something they can do but in reality is not actually convenient to do. With all dual boilers I always steam after the shot, in fact in some dual boilers you will find the act of pulling a shot, gives priority to the brew boiler heater.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@DavecUK - completely agree. I find there's a misconception that a dual boiler sole advantage is the ability to steam and brew at the same time, similarly for an HX. Sure they can, but it doesn't mean you won't find some shortcomings as delineated in the posts above. As discussed on another thread, the little Lizzy seems to be an exception to some dual boilers - like ECM and Profitec, where the machine gives brew priority. The Lizzy seems to be some sort of steam priority or heavy bias to steaming temp over brewing. On both scenarios, one of them will always suffer. Some machines do allow both boilers to work independently (older Profitec and ECM, Minima) and that makes a lot of difference based on my experience with a Pro-700 back in the day.


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## Inspector

I always make sure my steam boiler topped up before use of the machine, when I switch it on, if it doesn't refill I get some water out to refill the steam boiler.

Anyway long story short, I have no issues or refills in between making two cups of coffee and steam 160ml X2 cold milk at the same time, I use bloom pre infusion tho. I might try steam pre infusion and report back.

Ps: I don't brew and steam same time usually. Just occasional. I find brew first, stop the shot then steam more convenient rather than keeping eye on the scales haha.


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## marcocafe

Hello folks,

I need to jump on this thread as I am also experiencing some weirdness with my Lelit Elizabeth v3 which is 2 months old. I have some trouble with steaming 350ml as the temperature drops too quickly while steaming imho. I tried to follow all those helpful tips in here, but it seems something does not behave as expected. Please see the video:






LCC Settings:
*KPs = 2 
KIs = 0
KDs = 5
Bs = 1
Es = 8*

Any thoughts? Thanks, Marco


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## MediumRoastSteam

marcocafe said:


> Hello folks,
> 
> I need to jump on this thread as I am also experiencing some weirdness with my Lelit Elizabeth v3 which is 2 months old. I have some trouble with steaming 350ml as the temperature drops too quickly while steaming imho. I tried to follow all those helpful tips in here, but it seems something does not behave as expected. Please see the video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LCC Settings:
> *KPs = 2
> KIs = 0
> KDs = 5
> Bs = 1
> Es = 8*
> 
> Any thoughts? Thanks, Marco


 Hi Marco,

Those parameters look wrong. Please set them as per Dave's review, here: https://sway.office.com/S5J4d9Jp4Y9LdVFx

Full review: https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/lelit-elizabeth/

Worthwhile reading and watching a few times.

PS: The video you linked does not work.


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## marcocafe

Hi, here is the video > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TbgsV76OIH729IL41QkMJw7yaYQInijJ/view?usp=sharing

I will check the LCC settings again, thanks. Yes they are not the same, but similar. Can that make such a difference?

What I would like to achieve is that the heating element of the steam boiler kicks in much earlier. IMHO if I start steaming, the heating should basically immediately start. However not sure if this is doable.

Thanks.


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## DavecUK

Says it's still processing....can't you upload it to YT as unlisted...then link it here. so much easier.


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## marcocafe

Ok, now it should work! 




😅

BTW: Dave, i like to say thank you for all the community work you are doing! Really appreciate your time and efforts on all those Lelit machines! Thank you


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## MediumRoastSteam

@marcocafe - change he settings as per Dave's suggestions. Don't pull hot water beforehand. If you do, let the machine stabilise to the preset temp. Purge steam wand, and steam your milk.

Report back, let me know if it solves the problem.

I think I can explain what's going on.

ps: I steam 250ml or milk. It takes 42s. The start temperature is 140C, the end temperature is 132C.


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## marcocafe

OK great. I changed the settings and the behaviour is perfect now. The heating element kicks in immediately after starting to steam. Not sure which settings made the difference, but I suspect *KDs *must be zero to achieve this.

If I understood the *Es *value right, then this is more cosmetic as it only reduces the displayed temperature (temperature in the boiler minus the offset). However. the set temperature in the LCC settings is without the offset. Is that correct?

Thanks, Marco


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## MediumRoastSteam

marcocafe said:


> but I suspect *KDs *must be zero to achieve this.


 Bingo. 👍



marcocafe said:


> However. the set temperature in the LCC settings is without the offset


 If Es is 0, then there's no offset. Therefore the temperature you read in the LCC is the temperature measured by the probe inside the steam boiler. If it had an offset of 10, then you'd read 140C in the LCC, but the actual temperature inside the boiler would be 150C.

it's cosmetic indeed, and makes no sense for the purpose of reading the steam boiler temperature. I don't know why there's an offset from the factory, makes no sense what so ever.

Now, the reason you were seeing all those variations is because it was trying to "apply breaks" - (the derivative value) - which for a steam boiler doesn't make any sense. (As far as I understand it).


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## marcocafe

Alright, thanks again everyone!

This machine is really awesome. I really don't miss anything or wish something would be different or better.


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## BiggieBig

Wrong thread 🙂


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## BiggieBig

Not had an issue after using saves steam on pressure 🙂


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