# R58 Steam issue and PID problem



## Rock Carver

I've had an R58 for a couple of months and have to admit I've not been blown away by it so far. The espresso quality is excellent, but the steam quality has been quite disappointing.

So, to give the steam a bit of a boost I increased the temp with the PID by 1 degree which has helped a little in maintaining pressure long enough to get some decent micro foam.

However, as soon as I plug the PID into the R58 and change the temp on the service boiler, it shuts off the brew boiler pump completely! As in when you lift the handle to brew, nothing happens. The pump does not engage so nothing happens. The only way to get the pump working again is to switch the machine off and on again. This however, resets the temp back to the original factory setting and doesnÂ't retain or remember the change in settings.

i suspect I know the answer to my question already but, just in case I'm doing something wrong or am missing something, has anyone else experienced this problem? And if so, is there a simple fix without having to return the whole thing back to the retailer?


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## DavecUK

Who did you buy it from?


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## Rock Carver

DavecUK said:


> Who did you buy it from?


I got it from Bella Barista. Who have been great. Just didn't want to make the trek back to the shop if it was something I could fix at home.


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## DavecUK

Rock Carver said:


> I got it from Bella Barista. Who have been great. Just didn't want to make the trek back to the shop if it was something I could fix at home.


I'd recommend you go back to them....they are a quality retailer. if you had bought from one of the box shifters, or as an import from Europe, then the advice would be different as you won't get a huge amount of help and support from those resellers. BB on the other hand should be able to sort it out.


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## Rock Carver

DavecUK said:


> I'd recommend you go back to them....they are a quality retailer. if you had bought from one of the box shifters, or as an import from Europe, then the advice would be different as you won't get a huge amount of help and support from those resellers. BB on the other hand should be able to sort it out.


Thanks Dave. Like you, I wouldnÂ't recommend parting with big sums of money to a box shifter. I like to support businesses that put the customer experience high on their list of priorities and hopefully this will mean the likes of BB will continue to be around to help and offer support long into the future.

This Rocket machine does seem to have a few quirks. Most of which IÂ've been able to overcome. This PID Â'challengeÂ' has me beaten thus far. IÂ've only really needed to fiddle with the PID settings to try and improve the steam pressure. Bizarrely, using different types of milk seem to give better results than changing temperature settings. I did read some negative comments regarding the R58 but, not many considering how many Rocket have produced.


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## RobW

Do you switch the machine off when you are plugging in the controller? If not that could be the issue.


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## RobW

I too find the steaming on the R58 a bit hit and miss. I have the steam temp setting at maximum, but even then sometimes it seems like the PID is "lazy" and does not kick in causing a rapid drop in pressure.


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## MildredM

BB will indeed be glad to help. I had a problem with mine last year now I come to think about it. I am not sure if this thread will help at all:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?37207-R58-Intermittent-Problem


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## DavecUK

RobW said:


> I too find the steaming on the R58 a bit hit and miss. I have the steam temp setting at maximum, but even then sometimes it seems like the PID is "lazy" and does not kick in causing a rapid drop in pressure.


I would imagine the steam boiler still shares the brew boiler P I and D settings, which drastically lowers power as the set point is approached and usually gives around 18-20% less steaming power than something like a pressurestat. Nowadays I only get involved with Dual boilers that have proper dual loop PIDs with separate parameters for brew and service boiler e.g. Verona, Vesuvius, Minima and Lelit Bianca


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## GingerBen

FWIW my R58 steams very quickly and with no problems so I'd imagine you have a specific issue with your machine rather than it being a characteristic of r58's in general.


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## hotmetal

Just checking, OP, after setting your brew boiler to 1.3 bar (max) with the arrow buttons, you are then pressing 'P' to enter the value, and you are always only ever connecting/ disconnecting the PID display with the machine off?

Steam pressure can be increased by taking out the no-burn insert in the wand (so I've heard, not tried) with the obvious corollary that the wand will get very got along its length instead of just the tip.

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/assets/user-manuals/rocket/rocket-espresso-machines-user-manual-2018.pdf

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## El carajillo

Well worth removing the cool wand liner, simple / easy job.


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## Rock Carver

MildredM said:


> BB will indeed be glad to help. I had a problem with mine last year now I come to think about it. I am not sure if this thread will help at all:
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?37207-R58-Intermittent-Problem


Many thanks for this. I think this gives me the answer I'm looking for.

Having tried a few combinations as well as switching the machine on and off many times, I seem to now be able to change settings on the PID that are finally stored and retained and that don't switch the pump off.


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## Rock Carver

hotmetal said:


> Just checking, OP, after setting your brew boiler to 1.3 bar (max) with the arrow buttons, you are then pressing 'P' to enter the value, and you are always only ever connecting/ disconnecting the PID display with the machine off?
> 
> Steam pressure can be increased by taking out the no-burn insert in the wand (so I've heard, not tried) with the obvious corollary that the wand will get very got along its length instead of just the tip.
> 
> https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/assets/user-manuals/rocket/rocket-espresso-machines-user-manual-2018.pdf
> 
> ___
> 
> Eat, drink and be merry


Thanks for your help and advice with this. I did follow the steps suggested, but was still having the same problem with the pump not working. Thankfully though, I do seem to have sorted it out.

I am am tempted to try the steam wand mod, so many thanks for the tip and link.


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## hotmetal

Shame you never quite got to the bottom of what was causing the issue, but I'm glad to hear you've got to where you want to be now. I may at some point try the steam wand without the liner, but I know if I don't get one of those rubber grip sleeves I'll forget and burn my fingers!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## El carajillo

The rubber sleeve is essential, even with the sleeve I still ocaisionly touch the steel.

The removal of the liner is quite straight forward and makes a considerable improvement to the steaming, definitely worth doing:good:.


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## 9719

El carajillo said:


> Well worth removing the cool wand liner, simple / easy job.


Many thanks for that bit of advice, did that on my expobar brewtus iv and as you say simple to do as well as making a huge difference to the amount of water I now get whilst purging. Before there was a lot of water and difficult to eradicate even with purging as it would build up far quicker than I could purge it, now way more steam and little in the way of excess water. Now if only I could put it to proper use I'd be a happy chappie, one day maybe....


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## The Asgard

No issues with steam on mine. I have actually dropped the pressure by lowering the temp from default to get more control over the frothing. Milk frothing is more about technique than anything and it took me a while to get the hang of it.

Regard to the control box. You need to have the machine turned off before you plug it in. If leave mine permanently connected for times where I need to turn off the service boiler or tweak the brew boiler temp.


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