# £500 budget, £700 wish list... help?



## pherrington1982

Hello all and thank you for having me.

So, my first post. I'm new, I've been doing a ton of research recently, I started out with grinders and moved onto the machines themselves.

I originally set myself a ~£500 budget

The grinder and machine I am leaning towards are the

Eureka Mignon MK2 retails new @ £279.95

Rancilio Silvia which retails new @ £369.00

I'm not great at maths, but I know they don't fit into my budget. Plus I still need tamper / mat / knock box etc (I haven't begun researching these yet).

I've scoured a ebay for second hand and nothing really pops up.

Both machines look like a great starting point, with the Rancilio being able to house a lot of upgrades should I wish to play around in the future.

My questions are:

-Have I set my budget too low?

-Should I spread the cost, buy the grinder first and wait to buy the machine later?

-Is there a compromise I could make? Maybe a cheaper machine?

-I even considered one of the Sage Barista Express... I'm guessing the majority are going to say buy separate?

Thanks again for any advice given!


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## Rdl81

You willing to buy used as you would be able to get a siliva for a fair bit cheaper used. Or you could go the route of many beginners and get a used classic spend more on the grinder and then upgrade the classic later


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## pherrington1982

I would consider a used one. Where do you get them from though? I think there's only one on eBay at the moment and I've not enough post's to see this forum for sale page yet.

I'll have a look at the Classic, whats the drawbacks / what will I lose compared to the silvia?


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## PeterF

Agreed Grinder is the most critical piece of equipment. For coffee machine Gaggia Classic great place to start


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## The Systemic Kid

Go for a Gaggia Classic preferably used paired with a Mignon. Silvia is a good machine but the big price difference over the Classic is hard to justify. Buying used will save you money if and when you choose to upgrade. Only need five posts to access for sale thread.


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## risky

Gaggia Classic + Mazzer Super Jolly is a traditional starter setup and should come in well under budget. I'd budget about £150 for a Classic and £250 for a Super Jolly but that's pretty top end prices for used. In fact, looking at the For Sale section you could get a Mazzer Major (or even a Mazzer Royal!) and a Classic within budget.

Sage Barista Express would use up the whole budget and while it is a better machine than the Classic, as you pointed out, it limits you if you feel the need to upgrade one of the components.

As Patrick pointed out, it's hard to justify the extra cash on the Silvia. Only exception I would make was if you could find one with a PID fitted and get it for a bargain, but that's pretty unlikely to happen. There are plenty of mods that can be done on the Classic.


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## pherrington1982

risky said:


> Gaggia Classic + Mazzer Super Jolly is a traditional starter setup and should come in well under budget. In fact, looking at the For Sale section you could get a Mazzer Major (or even a Mazzer Royal!) and a Classic within budget..


As soon as I get the post count I certainly take a look in there!!!


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## pherrington1982

Thank you all for your insight... I'm going to start looking at the Gaggia Classic now, there's plenty on ebay! I'll start my research on that tonight hope you guys don't mind if I come back with a few more questions on that.


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## risky

Well your budget is certainly healthy for starting out as it allows you to 'future proof' to a certain degree. A Super Jolly would probably see you through a machine upgrade while a Major or especially a Royal would see you through quite a few machine upgrades.


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## pherrington1982

Hi Risky, What is a good / bargain price for a Used Silvia with a PID? There is one I'm watching at the moment.

^^ No worries on responding to this, I have access to the for sale section now, so I'll have a good scour through there this evening. Once again thank you all for your input


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## The Systemic Kid

pherrington1982 said:


> Thank you all for your insight... I'm going to start looking at the Gaggia Classic now, there's plenty on ebay! I'll start my research on that tonight hope you guys don't mind if I come back with a few more questions on that.


Don't forget the 'for sale' thread on this forum. Make sure any Classic you're interested in has been regularly descaled - especially if it's been used in a hard water area. You will come across Classics that have had the steam arm changed to a Silvia one which is much better for producing micro-foamed milk. This is a simple mod to do but if it's already been done, it's a bonus.


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## risky

pherrington1982 said:


> Hi Risky, What is a good / bargain price for a Used Silvia with a PID? There is one I'm watching at the moment.
> 
> ^^ No worries on responding to this, I have access to the for sale section now, so I'll have a good scour through there this evening. Once again thank you all for your input


Realistically I wouldn't pay more for a Silvia because I personally don't see the point of the extra spending over a Classic. If it were a nice example with a PID I'd maybe pay a bit more than what you see Classics going for, which tends to be about £100-150 depending on condition. Bear in mind that Classics can be had on eBay and Gumtree for about £30/£50 occasionally. One member on here even managed to pick one up for free!


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## risky

The Systemic Kid said:


> Make sure any Classic you're interested in has been regularly descaled - especially if it's been used in a hard water area.


It might be worth pointing out that quite a few people seem to lie about descaling. Generally, if it is in a hard water area, I would treat it as if it had scale until proven otherwise, even if they say it's only ever been used with bottled water.

Don't let that put you off a total bargain one though as if you are prepared to get your hands dirty you can de-scale it yourself.


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## frederickaj

I have bought two Gaggia machines ( regrettably not classics ) sold as not working . On Both machines a good descale has brought them back to life and they are now brewing fine .


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## pherrington1982

Wow overwhelmed with all the great advice! Thank you! So I'm going to start my quest on looking at the classic. Is there any models I should avoid? I note with the Silvia there was 4 diff variations the last model having a removable heating element. Is it the same with the classic? Can the classic be modded with a PID or is it no need at this stage. I'm gonna spend a few hours looking.

With regards to getting my hands dirty and descaling, I live in a hard water area myself so I guess I'll have to get used to that anyway!


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## risky

pherrington1982 said:


> Wow overwhelmed with all the great advice! Thank you! So I'm going to start my quest on looking at the classic. Is there any models I should avoid? I note with the Silvia there was 4 diff variations the last model having a removable heating element. Is it the same with the classic? Can the classic be modded with a PID or is it no need at this stage. I'm gonna spend a few hours looking.
> 
> With regards to getting my hands dirty and descaling, I live in a hard water area myself so I guess I'll have to get used to that anyway!


So generally the Classics made before Gaggia were taken over by Philips (2009) are supposed to be the most desireable because of a larger solenoid. A lot of folk report that it makes no difference though. The next change was the model introduced this year, generally these probably aren't going to pop up much on the second hand market. Some people aren't keen on them but I doubt you will see them second hand anyway.

The model number of the pre-2015 models is RI8161. The 2015 model is R19403.

The sticker on the base will tell you what year it was made in.

It can be modded with a PID, but I don't think it's necessary.


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## jlarkin

If you see a classic with a PID for a good price then it can help avoid the need to temperature surf and gives you a bit of a leg up. You can also buy one without and decide to PID yourself if you wanted. Finally, of course, plenty of people don't feel the need at all...


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## risky

jlarkin said:


> If you see a classic with a PID for a good price then it can help avoid the need to temperature surf and gives you a bit of a leg up. You can also buy one without and decide to PID yourself if you wanted. Finally, of course, plenty of people don't feel the need at all...


Good point, PID'd Classics come up now and again for dirt cheap.


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## coffeechap

I know that there will be an auber pid'd silvia coming for around £300 very soon


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## Rdl81

There are a few classics for sale in the the for sale thread one at 130 with extras leaving u plenty left over for a grinder there is an orange Eurika should go well with a classic from what I understand and u will have both for about £300 leaving u £200 left for if u want to upgrade later to a cherub or something and if u look after the machine and grinder can't see them loosing u much money when u sell them on


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## pherrington1982

Rdl81 said:


> There are a few classics for sale in the the for sale thread one at 130 with extras leaving u plenty left over for a grinder there is an orange Eurika should go well with a classic from what I understand and u will have both for about £300 leaving u £200 left for if u want to upgrade later to a cherub or something and if u look after the machine and grinder can't see them loosing u much money when u sell them on


Cant believe I missed the Eureka!







I'm gonna have to keep my eye open!!!


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## Wuyang

Be patient........I just sold a fully shop modded 6 month old Nuova Simonelli Oscar for £350...... Which I bought new for about £535. Mine had loads of mods, but you can get them cheaper as standard without mods from Elektros.it for a good price....worth checking out, they're a HX machine and will steam all day long while your pulling a shots. I've seen a few decent machines go for around this price. You see a lot of classics for sale due to a lot of people upgrading pretty quickly if they get the bug.


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## Wuyang

What drinks are you wanting to make?


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## Rdl81

Or you could get a cherub and a super jolly that's what I have


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## Iwwstriker

risky said:


> Gaggia Classic + Mazzer Super Jolly is a traditional starter setup and should come in well under budget. I'd budget about £150 for a Classic and £250 for a Super Jolly but that's pretty top end prices for used. In fact, looking at the For Sale section you could get a Mazzer Major (or even a Mazzer Royal!) and a Classic within budget.
> 
> Sage Barista Express would use up the whole budget and while it is a better machine than the Classic, as you pointed out, it limits you if you feel the need to upgrade one of the components.
> 
> As Patrick pointed out, it's hard to justify the extra cash on the Silvia. Only exception I would make was if you could find one with a PID fitted and get it for a bargain, but that's pretty unlikely to happen. There are plenty of mods that can be done on the Classic.


Yup, I definitely agree with Mr. Risky here. I have the exact same setup for those prices. And I am looking into upgrades soon.







Classic has to go and someone new will take its honourable place.


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## pherrington1982

Wuyang said:


> What drinks are you wanting to make?


All of them!

Well, mainly espresso / Lungo / Americano as I'm lactose intolerant, but I'm sure I'll be experimenting with milk ones for my guests.


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## pherrington1982

Iwwstriker said:


> Yup, I definitely agree with Mr. Risky here. I have the exact same setup for those prices. And I am looking into upgrades soon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Classic has to go and someone new will take its honourable place.


Cool - I can see me hitting F5 on the for sale section a lot, thank you


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## Wuyang

Have you thought about going down the brewed route? I loved lattes, but started drinking americano's.....I then started drinking via the clever dripper. I love brewed, to me you get real good flavours in your coffee.

It's just a thought......but if you went down this route you could get a Behmor brazen and a lido 3 grinder and have cash to spare......you'd get some top coffee with this combo.

if you have a look on the brewed section there's loads of info on the brazen etc.


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## pherrington1982

Wuyang said:


> Have you thought about going down the brewed route? I loved lattes, but started drinking americano's.....I then started drinking via the clever dripper. I love brewed, to me you get real good flavours in your coffee.
> 
> It's just a thought......but if you went down this route you could get a Behmor brazen and a lido 3 grinder and have cash to spare......you'd get some top coffee with this combo.
> 
> if you have a look on the brewed section there's loads of info on the brazen etc.


Do you know, I'd never even considered that?! However I've literally just bought a Mignon (like last night I placed the order)...

Is brewing a longer process with more to clean? There is only me that drinks coffee in my house.

My thoughts were that I could grind beans in a morning and bring them into work to use in the French press I have here and I could make some decent espresso on an evening before the gym and weekend I could mess around with all kinds of coffee









I look at that hand grinder and it says it can do Turkish coffee which is something I would really like to do. I might end up getting on of them to go with my Mignon


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## Wuyang

The clever dripper is a nice piece of equipment, fun to use and most of the time does a decent drink ( if you like brewed) and it's a two second clean up.

The behmor brazen is just the same regards cleaning just the filter basket really.

The Mignon is lovely little grinder, it's what I started out with along with a classic.


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## pherrington1982

Wuyang said:


> The clever dripper is a nice piece of equipment, fun to use and most of the time does a decent drink ( if you like brewed) and it's a two second clean up.
> 
> The behmor brazen is just the same regards cleaning just the filter basket really.
> 
> The Mignon is lovely little grinder, it's what I started out with along with a classic.


im definitely gonna get one of those clever drippers, so cheap, thanks for point me in the right direction







!! . And yes the Mignon and the Classic looks like the way to go for me for the espresso

Nearly bought a mkI Mignon today.

Noticed that Happy Donkey have the MK2 in for £240 so I might bite the bullet and buy new...


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## risky

pherrington1982 said:


> All of them!
> 
> Well, mainly espresso / Lungo / Americano as I'm lactose intolerant, but I'm sure I'll be experimenting with milk ones for my guests.


You tried that Arla Lactofree? Since it's milk with the lactose removed it steams just like 'normal' milk and makes great milk drinks.

We have it in the house for my son who's lactose intolerant and I'd say it steams easier than regular milk.


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## pherrington1982

risky said:


> You tried that Arla Lactofree? Since it's milk with the lactose removed it steams just like 'normal' milk and makes great milk drinks.
> 
> We have it in the house for my son who's lactose intolerant and I'd say it steams easier than regular milk.


I've not tried that, no. I normally drink Alpro Almond Milk, but to be honest it does flavour the coffee so I just stuck to black. Obviously having a steam wand, I'd want to have a play about. So I'll try that lacto free.

Can't believe I never thought about it.

thanks again for your help earlier Risky


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## risky

Well my wife swears she can tell the difference but I can't. Just tastes like 'normal' milk to me. Hard part with some of the substitutes, soya etc. Is that they sometimes 'split' when steaming.


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## pherrington1982

I read something bad about soya once... However I'm sure if you google "soya bad for you" and "soya good for you" you'll get evidence for both and end up wearing a tin foil hat. Either which way, i opted for Almond milk to add to protein shakes and that's it. Stopped drinking tea (hence why I'm looking to spend so much chasing a good cup of coffee lol)

certainly try the lacto free milk tho if it can be done at the same temp as normal milk

Was planning on getting the stickers for the metal jugs. You guys use them or a thermometer is better?? (For a newbie of course)


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## jlarkin

I use the frothometer stickers, I'd read the thermometers can lag a bit so that they're not as accurate quickly enough. The sticker is good and you can still clean in sink etc with no issues (I've had them about 6 months I guess)


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## JackBlackmore

just as I thought I was settled on the Silvia, I've read this and it's changed everything!


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## hotmetal

I started with a milk thermometer but found it gets in the way and makes getting the 'swirl' tricky. MeasurIng after the fact misses the point. The temp tags are better in this regard but to be honest they're actually really only any good for 'calibrating your fingers'. By which I mean it's tricky to keep your eye on the steam tip and milk, and look at the temp tag at the same time. You quickly get used to what a steel milk jug feels like when at 65°C (ouch!) but a temp tag is perfect for confirmation that your sense of temperature in your hand is right.

The lactose-free milk is (to me) indistinguishable from normal milk, and not comparable to soya etc. It's just ordinary milk with lactase (the enzyme that breaks down lactose) added.


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