# Tamper tamper tamper....



## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

So can someone explain why a 58.4mm from most sellers are in the region of £100 (which i feel is obdurd)

i half feel like putting a handle on one of these:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=281566476324

Precision engineered and £15


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Give it a go .not quite the same design but let's see how it pans out


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

not sure where you get the £100 from a 58.4 torr is around £40 with a standard handle and is very very well made


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## Andy_C (Feb 4, 2015)

Been looking myself, and all out of stock, but not that expensive. Bella barista do one for £31.95 , made by knock £29

Torrs by cafekultur ( German company ) from about 49 euro + tax and shipping.

Andy

beaten by Coffeechap. Too slow at typing


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

I know very little about tampers... and overall, they seem ridiculously priced to me, I bought a http://www.madebyknock.com/ simple tamper.

From memory £19. Tamper quality is excellent, but Knock were a little slow at sending it.

I have been using it for around 18 months.

I couldn't part £100 for one, sorry guys.

w


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Like almost any hobby there is a law of diminishing returns the more involved you get. A Chinese 58mm tamper can be had for a tenner or thereabouts and it will be perfectly serviceable. If you obsess to the point where you're worrying about the odd 0.01 of a millimetre and want an exotic wood handle and or profile then you are going to pay through the nose for it. Declaring an interest, I have a Torr Goldfinger, which viewed objectively is a ridiculous indulgence. But I wanted it and could afford it. If you want a 58.4mm tamper at a reasonable(ish) price there is always Made by Knock. Just be prepared to wait and wait and then wait a bit more for it to be delivered with no communication in the meantime.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

wilse said:


> I couldn't part £100 for one, sorry guys.


Wait until coffeechap releases details of his new bling tampers!


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

Hard hat is on, and ready for action!


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Decent looking tampers below, £32 for a 'pro' convex one.

http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/coffee_tampers_and_mats.html#TampingMats


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

they are not 58.4mm though


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> they are not 58.4mm though


Surely, 0.4mm doesn't make that much of a difference, does it?

I've a 58mm tamper that I've had for years, used it with my Gaggia Classic but it is a bit 'loose' with the Expobar PF however I just knock the PF sides with the tamper then polish the coffee.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I personally tend to think that this obsession with tampers is such a load as well. I doubt you could spot 0.4mm with the naked eye. If you have room to nutate, then the tamper cannot really be fitting that will in any case.

Be interesting to do some blind tests with a 58 mm and 58.4 mm tamper. I doubt anyone would know the difference


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## cracker666 (Jan 17, 2015)

Knock the pf with the tamper = face palm. Nooooooo not good practice m8.

That piston is made in india and could lead to dehli belly lol.

I have a 58mm Motta, I will be ordering a larger as it is small.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

actually you have a 58.55 that you can nutate with and is a perfect fit to a vst basket. a lot of the time it comes down to feel and fit, a 58.4 fits a basket better than a 58, fact


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## Andy_C (Feb 4, 2015)

Good question, does size (.35mm) really matter. Or am I being drawn to the dark side by this forum, next thing I want better grinder, coffee machine bigger kitchen to put it in maybe bigger house. I must resist


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I mostly agree with that Dave. (DFK41)

However, I definitely can tell the difference between a 58mm and 58.4mm. Whether one is better than the other is much more debatable. If you nutate I rather doubt it. Even if the tamper fitted the basket to .001 of a mm that would give you a problem. When you removed it out the resultant vacuum would suck the puck out with it.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> actually you have a 58.55 that you can nutate with and is a perfect fit to a vst basket. a lot of the time it comes down to feel and fit, a 58.4 fits a basket better than a 58, fact


Nutate?

Are you saying that my tamper is 58.55mm or that the 58.4mm tamper is in fact 58.55mm?

I've just ordered a VST 18g basket, it's actually the La Marzocco Strada Basket 17g.

Thanks

Tony.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

58mm fits a standard basket. 58+ fits a VST better.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Knocking the side of the portafilter is not a good idea. It can break the carefully tamped puck and ruin all that good work. Tamp and turn out the tiny bit of extra powder is a much better idea.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

twotone said:


> Nutate?
> 
> Actually tony i was retorting to DFk who I know for a fact has a torr 58.55 trap titanium and in my experience the better the fit on the tamper in the basket the better the extraction, less chance for channelling to occur and more importantly the more bling the better


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

Ha anyone looked into getting any made?

i'm thinking of talking to my work's engineering dept and see what they think. They make precision parts all the time. I would have thoughts the end of a tamper to them should be something and nothing (I could be wrong of course)

i can turn a wooden handle myself and have plenty of nice limps of oak and mahogany in the garage that I've saved for a rainy day...

i recon 58.475 would be a good fit.









You know, somewhere between 58.4 and 58.55.... Though it'd best not be 0.001 out.... Else it'll ruin the flavour of my white chocolate venti latte with fresh cream and caramel syrup....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

twotone said:


> Surely, 0.4mm doesn't make that much of a difference, does it?












http://mattperger.com/Pergtamp


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

All I know is I went from using the crappy plastic thing that came with my machine or a I'll fitting cheap tamper to a nice looking, well fitting and well made tamper. The difference in ease of use and end result were night and day.

It will of course come down to how much you are willing to pay also but one that fits and feels good to use makes a noticeable difference that your taste buds will thank you for and if it looks a little bit sexy than that's just an added bonus.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> twotone said:
> 
> 
> > Nutate?
> ...


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> [i do indeed have the tamper you mention, but I dislike it intensely


If your hating I'll have it for nowt, don't throw it out, be a terrible waste O


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## cracker666 (Jan 17, 2015)

Sk8-bizarre said:


> If your hating I'll have it for nowt, don't throw it out, be a terrible waste O


Yeah we could make good use of that for you, as you dislike it soooooooooo much lol.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The most interesting thing I read about tamping, I think it was on here, was that an even downward pressure on a loose bed, like that of a tamper on coffee grounds, does not produce an even downward pressure across the puck. Due to how pressure distributes, so therefore a flat tamper infact exerts more pressure on the center of the puck than the sides. Or something like that... a quick google shows images like this one below but they obviously dont take into account the dynamics of the basket.

I have to distribute the grounds in my basket with a slight crater in the center in order to get and even extraction. It took me a lot of head scratching and just living with dead spots in the center of the puck (and I tried a lot of different methods and techniques) before settling on this. A convex tamper is next on my buy list to see if this does the same job.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Well I have tried nutating but overall I prefer the straight down and a quick turn method. Whilst I'd be the first to agree that 58.4mm and 58.0 don't in and of themselves change the taste in the cup, there could be a taste difference if you get channeling. Equally though you could get channeling with either. But having used a tamper that was about half a mm too loose, I have to say that a well-fitting one (to whatever basket you have, in my case VST) makes the whole tamping process a lot easier and quicker. I didn't get a 'bling' one, just a Knock Heft 58.35 in black and walnut, but it really does make a difference to ease of use and was worth the £30 in my opinion. Not too tight, not too loose, not too expensive. I couldn't justify one of those beautiful top end ones, but if $$$ was no object, I secretly covet a nice Goldfinger or Pullman. But there is no practical necessity to spend that sort of money, I'd say it's a nice way to treat yourself if coffee is your life/work and you have the cash spare. I guess you pays your money and takes your choice. But that extra fit can be had cheaper, and does help. If you can afford a posh version of the same, why not? If not, get a Knock or similar.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

cracker666 said:


> Yeah we could make good use of that for you, as you dislike it soooooooooo much lol.


I bought it and paid for it, therefore I am allowed to think what I like of it!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

dfk41

First dibs please should you wish to sell your Torr Titanium TI 58.55mm. Thanks.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

They are not for lazy tampers !


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## Beanaholic (Feb 2, 2015)

Why knock the aesthetics of a beautiful tamper. The cost of a beautifully made tactile tamper that fits snugly into the basket is well worth it. If you think that it is only worth paying for something that improves the flavour why do most of us pay so much for stainless steel machines with curved edges and beautifull portafilter handles, etc. a galvanised box with riveted corners and cheap plastic knobs would make exactly the same tasting coffee (all internal components being equal). Aesthetics matter when is comes to pleasure, and a beautiful tamper improves the coffee making experience for many - though maybe not the coffee


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

Beanaholic said:


> Why knock the aesthetics of a beautiful tamper. The cost of a beautifully made tactile tamper that fits snugly into the basket is well worth it. If you think that it is only worth paying for something that improves the flavour why do most of us pay so much for stainless steel machines with curved edges and beautifull portafilter handles, etc. a galvanised box with riveted corners and cheap plastic knobs would make exactly the same tasting coffee (all internal components being equal). Aesthetics matter when is comes to pleasure, and a beautiful tamper improves the coffee making experience for many - though maybe not the coffee


I guess what you mean is you don't go out and shag a troll because you know she's the same as a princess on the inside, but cheaper.....? Ha


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

View attachment 11832


Its nice to treat yourself once in a while .


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Thecatlinux said:


> View attachment 11832
> 
> 
> Its nice to treat yourself once in a while .


Trying to make us all jealous with your Goldfinger Titanium?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I think the placebo effect kicks in with the more expensive Tampers.

Incidentally, I just need to find the right sized one of these and im quids in

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Luxury-Bling-Gold-Butt-Plug-Stroker-Anal-Clit-Vagina-Prostate-Masturbate-Sex-Toy-/251768599886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&var=&hash=item3a9e93f54e


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Find me a cheap 58.55 and I'm all over it


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Find me a cheap 58.55 and I'm all over it


Didn't think cheap and 58.55 went together in the same sentence?!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Find me a cheap 58.55 and I'm all over it


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That's a cheapER 58.55...don't know if it could be called objectively cheap!


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## Beanaholic (Feb 2, 2015)

bongo said:


> I guess what you mean is you don't go out and shag a troll because you know she's the same as a princess on the inside, but cheaper.....? Ha


Nah - what I'm saying is don't knock the virtues of an overpriced tamper when every day for the last week I have skipped to the postman in the expectation that he's bought my expensive Pullman tamper custom matched to a Vst. I know I'm shallow, but it's cheaper to indulge it than to cure it


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Looks lovely..... I have a thing for the wooden handled ones. Its the contrast of metal to wood I think.

But if you don't get on with it well the looks are nothing really.......


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

The Espresso Gear Barista Tamper is a hand polished stainless steel tamper with a generous round handle. Loved by many, many professionals around the world. The Barista has been updated and now includes a stainless steel extension ring which makes it possible to add 5 mm to the shaft length. Material: Hand polished stainless steel and good-grip handle Weight: 270 grams All Espresso Gear Tampers come with a slight convex base and are 58mm.....can do you one for £45 delivered


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

So for those interested i've just paid for, but haven't yet received, two tampers for a total cost of ££££ including turned wooden handles too.

I'm getting two sizes. 58.5mm and 58.4mm in order to test the best fit.

The reason being that the tolerance of the lathe is +/- .05mm meaning the outcome could be anything between 53.35 to 54.45mm and 54.45 and 54.55mm.

the polished finish takes off 0.1mm so this is being taken into account for the manufacture...

will offer an update once received and i can see how the feel and fit etc


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

I was going to mention the Pergtamp but see that Jeebsy got in much earlier. But for the theory behind it (whether or not you agree) see http://mattperger.com/Pergtamp

Me? I'm happy with my Pullman. Before that I was happy with a Motta...


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


>


mmmm, me wants!


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

While I agree it's nice. I can't agree on the price. Especially seeing as manufacture based on a unit order of 1, including delivery on the same size tamper is costing me £16.50. Even with 100% mark-up to retail only makes is £30, and mark up is normally only around 30%.


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

It's codting £16.50 to make from titanium?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The tolerances aren't great either for the level of precision we want


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

Chockymonster said:


> It's codting £16.50 to make from titanium?


No, stainless first time round. But I doubt you'd know the difference if it was polished wood by the time the coffee is in your cup.



jeebsy said:


> The tolerances aren't great either for the level of precision we want


This is something I'm less familiar with as I'm not an engineer, but seeing as the basket will vary anyway, more so when you account for variation at difference temperatures I don't see that it'll make enough difference to warrant a 10 fold price increase.

What is the tolerance on the Torrs? Or is every single unit exactly 58.55? (I have my doubts on this....)


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Chockymonster said:


> mmmm, me wants!


Oiii, that's my tamper and I'm not planning on parting with it anytime soon!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

bongo said:


> No, stainless first time round. But I doubt you'd know the difference if it was polished wood by the time the coffee is in your cup.
> 
> This is something I'm less familiar with as I'm not an engineer, but seeing as the basket will vary anyway, more so when you account for variation at difference temperatures I don't see that it'll make enough difference to warrant a 10 fold price increase.
> 
> What is the tolerance on the Torrs? Or is every single unit exactly 58.55? (I have my doubts on this....)


Vst baskets are pretty much the same size. As for the torrs, paging @coffeechap


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The point you are missing Bongo is that the torr 58.55 which is exact however you doubt it. i had the callipers out on the lot that came, is machined from titanium not steel and the reason for this is that the super sharp edge on these tampers is very delicate and susceptible to damage, the titanium makes the base much more durable. As for cost, titanium is A LOT more expensive than steel and take four times the work to finish due to the hardness.

a standard 58.4 torr tamper works out around £35 so not sure where your vast exaggeration on a like for like tamper comes from. lets see what you get a titanium sharp edge one down for.


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Vst baskets are pretty much the same size. As for the torrs, paging @coffeechap


And there within lies my point exactly.

58.45mm, 58.55mm and anything in between are all 'pretty much the same size'. This, when combined with an expanding and shrinking basket size won't make a shadow of difference to your coffee.... and besides, temperature related expansion is out of your control.



coffeechap said:


> The point you are missing Bongo is that the torr 58.55 which is exact however you doubt it. i had the callipers out on the lot that came


All manufacturing processes have a degree of tolerance. My question was more toward if +/- .05mm is too great a tolerance (and we are talking about a bit of metal to push a bit of coffee here chaps, not talking piston heads in Lewis's new F1 car) then what is a) acceptable and B) that of Torr, or Pullman or other brands that are tipping the £100 for this coffee pushing tool..



coffeechap said:


> lets see what you get a titanium sharp edge one down for.


While this is all possible, why would I want too? It isn't going to make a difference to how good/bad I am at making coffee?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Have you read the Matt perger article/advertorial where he addresses these points?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Again you miss the point bongo, it won't make your coffee prep muck better, it will give you a perfect fit in a VST basket, and it is made from titanium because of the edge on the tamper. All of these things will make only very small improvements to the end result, but isn't that what we strive to achieve, haven't you recently done lots of tests on the accuracy of dose of your grinder, some might say what's the point just use it, and others might say what's thenpoint in getting better kit at all?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Agree with coffeechap. I have 58mm, 58.4mm and 58.55mm tampers and using the latter certainly gives me a much cleaner finish in my VST baskets than a 58mm tamper. Amazing how such a negligible difference in size can make. Don't knock it until you've tried it!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/572258331852587008


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