# French Press.



## Kyle548

I'm one who has never had much luck with a FP.

Having said that, I'm always one to learn.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a FP?

I want a double walled one, not too bothered about the looks, but ideally 2 cup or less.

I really like the Hario wood neck FP, but at 100£ inc delivery.......


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## MWJB

Bodum Columbia 500ml


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## jeebsy

Espro if you've got cash to splash


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## Kyle548

I was thinking 20£ at a push...


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## MWJB

Split the difference and go mif £30's for the Le Crueset, not double walled, but stoneware, so if preheated holds its heat well? Pretty too. (Not such a fine a mesh as the Columbia, but I don't plunge the plunger anyway).


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## Kyle548

You don't plunge it?


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## MWJB

No, when it's ready I hold the lid & mesh in place above the brew and pour out through it (after reading about doing this in James Hoffmann's blog).

After the coffee and water are combined & left to steep, I don't like to disturb the grinds bed.


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## gmason

Just received the new Espro 'Medium' sized press a couple of days ago. Espro launched a small coffee press (1-cup) followed by a large version. This is the best and most practical so far. Beautifully made and the filtration is extremely effective resulting in a silt-free brew. No need to brush your teeth afterwards! I'm a daily coffee press user and over the years have had just about every version going. This really does the business. Set you back around £55. Previously to the Espro upgrade, my favourite was the Bodum Columbia which I used daily for over a decade. Not that much difference in the overall price.


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## Kyle548

I'm actually very tempted by the 350ml Columbia.

I only drink 6oz of brewed coffee at a time, so this is huge for me, but the price is right at 35£ I guess.


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## gmason

Just had a quick rummage in the back my coffee cupboard and I have a 350ml Columbia press. If you are interested, I'm sure we can do a deal. Are you going to the Forum day at BB?


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## Kyle548

gmason said:


> Just had a quick rummage in the back my coffee cupboard and I have a 350ml Columbia press. If you are interested, I'm sure we can do a deal. Are you going to the Forum day at BB?


Nah, I won't be going unfortunately.

I'm sure we can come to some kind of arrangement for this.

Post some pictures and give us a ballpark price.


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## espressotechno

Try a La Cafetiere (that's the origin of "French press")


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## Kyle548

espressotechno said:


> Try a La Cafetiere (that's the origin of "French press")


They are the originators or simply the name sake?


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## Geordie Boy

I've only got a simple French Press at the moment (a cheap Sainsbury's one). Do insulated ones make much of a difference? I'm guessing they do (as the temperature will stay more constant) but just after opinions.

Coffee wise, I much prefer the lighter roast coffees in the FP, a good Ethiopian Yirgacheffe being my favourite


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## MWJB

Kyle - La Cafetiere is just the reseller's name in this case, but they do have a wide range of pots.

Geordie Boy - A French press can take 20-30mins to hit the sweet spot, maybe more for a smaller one (less thermal inertia), so anything to keep the heat in is a bonus. Large (~1l), single wall, pots seem fine if you're just going to brew & serve. The popularity of light bodied, delicate, floral coffees in the FP doesn't really strike me as a mystery...isn't it as much because these coffees taste good at lower levels of extraction?


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## Kyle548

MWJB said:


> Kyle - La Cafetiere is just the reseller's name in this case, but they do have a wide range of pots.
> 
> Geordie Boy - A French press can take 20-30mins to hit the sweet spot, maybe more for a smaller one (less thermal inertia), so anything to keep the heat in is a bonus. Large (~1l), single wall, pots seem fine if you're just going to brew & serve. The popularity of light bodied, delicate, floral coffees in the FP doesn't really strike me as a mystery...isn't it as much because these coffees taste good at lower levels of extraction?


Then how long to brew for in a FP?

I think FP is kind of like cupping.

You can let the coffee develop slowly over time.

I guess you can also apply espresso best practice and extract to strict parameters.

I guess the same goes for any older brewing method, there is the 3rd way and the original way of extraction....

Well, except moka....

I still have no idea how I'm supposed to brew that, I just do what feels right.


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## gmason

Pics of the Bodum 12 oz Columbia Coffee Maker. Double-walled stainless steel and so forth.


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## Geordie Boy

I agree with giving it more time to extract. Some of the best coffee out of my French Press has been when I've been distracted at work and let it steep for 20+ mins. It goes to show what nonsense the 3min extraction rule is!


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## mr kean bean

gmason said:


> Just received the new Espro 'Medium' sized press a couple of days ago. Espro launched a small coffee press (1-cup) followed by a large version. This is the best and most practical so far. Beautifully made and the filtration is extremely effective resulting in a silt-free brew. No need to brush your teeth afterwards! I'm a daily coffee press user and over the years have had just about every version going. This really does the business. Set you back around £55. Previously to the Espro upgrade, my favourite was the Bodum Columbia which I used daily for over a decade. Not that much difference in the overall price.


Hi

Where is it for £55? Cheapest I can see for the medium is around £70.







Edit: Would probably go for large anyway, which is £80.

Regarding the Le Crueset mentioned by MWJB, is it worth the premium over a bog standard Bodium?


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## gmason

Preordered it from Coffeesmiths. Having now had it a few weeks, it's the all-round best size. Not too big or small. Tend to only use the large if we have company and the small if I'm in a rush or want a cup and a half.


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## MWJB

mr kean bean said:


> Hi
> 
> Regarding the Le Crueset mentioned by MWJB, is it worth the premium over a bog standard Bodium?


It's a good idea, when steeping, to brew as big a volume as is reasonable, too keep up the thermal inertia. That said, I don't have any issues with larger single wall French presses (900ml Bodum Brazil, which I use at work from time to time), but the advantage of the le Crueset is (when preheated) it holds its heat better. Most importantly, of course,...it's darned pretty! ;-)


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## mr kean bean

MWJB said:


> It's a good idea, when steeping, to brew as big a volume as is reasonable, too keep up the thermal inertia.


That explains why filling up my 3-cup bodum tastes a bit better than half filling the 8-cup version. Anyhow, nice finishes- I like the purple (Cassis). Going to try the no plunging method, as you described previously, as well as longer steeps (than my usual 4 mins). Cheers for that.



gmason said:


> Preordered it from Coffeesmiths..


Well, it's £70 now (and out of range for me unfortunately), so you got a great price.


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## Kyle548

gmason said:


> Pics of the Bodum 12 oz Columbia Coffee Maker. Double-walled stainless steel and so forth.
> 
> View attachment 3692
> View attachment 3693
> View attachment 3694


I totally missed this post.


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## dsc

What's everyone's opinion on brewing in the FP and breaking the crust / doing the initial mix on startup? One thing I'm interested in is comparing a FP to a cupping session for example. In a cupping session you simply pour water in and leave the cup brewing until you are ready to spoon the thing (ha!







) and break the crust. Do you do the same when brewing with the FP? I've tried various methods and quite often not touching the brew until the end gives me the cleanest results.

Regards,

T.


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## gmason

I use the FP pretty much every day and over the years, incorporated different approaches to the brew. Some have made no difference whatsoever. The method I currently use gives me fantastic tasting coffee in that it brings out all the flavour and subtleties of a good bean/roast. Add just off the boil to coffee in circular pour saturating the grounds completely (preheated pot). Let stand for a minute or two until gas bubbles dissipate. Break crust and give gentle stir (depending on my mood or the coffee, the stir can be too just below the crust and sometimes the whole container). Top up with hot water. Place filter on top and rest. Depending on the size of the pot, wait appropriate time and press. I try to combine elements of the pour-over and it seems to work.


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## espressotechno

It's because you're using a "French Press".......try using a "Cafetiere" (The La Cafetiere one look nice & retro).....LOL


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## Geordie Boy

gmason I do a similar thing however I break the crust and distribute the grinds by giving a quick small push on the filter (and then release back up), then wait a minute or so before giving the final push


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## MWJB

Mine steep so long there is no crust, maybe just a few grinds at the surface. Not disturbing the bed is what I really look out for, to keep the silt down. I also add the water first to any brewer I'm going to steep in.


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## dsc

Why the difference then, if you don't stir during cupping, why stir when brewing? also you normally break the crust when cupping, so why allow for such a long steep that there's no crust left? Cupping is the moment when you want to get the most out of the coffee, you really want it brewed optimally, and the method behind cupping is rather crude / simple, cover coffee in water and leave. With a French Press you see a totally different approach for some reason.

Regards,

T.


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## mr kean bean

Tried not plunging on my 3-cup Bodum this morning (with plunger fully raised), and it trickles out slowly but does indeed improve the finished coffee.









What's the recommended 'off boil' duration in a standard electric kettle? I've been waiting around 80 seconds till pouring but maybe that's too much?


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## dsc

Try to warm up the glass, put the coffee in and very slowly pour water in the middle until the desired weight is reached, cover and leave for 6min or so (depends on the grind size). As the coffee gets wet and swallows up water it will sink, as you said rather slowly. Plunge at the end, filter through a rinsed paper filter and taste.

It's a bit of a gamble with leaving the kettle, depends on how much water you have left in it (heat retention), how well insulated it is and whether you leave the top open or closed. Also if you use an insulated press, you can heat it up with boiling water and use lower temperature for brewing. If it's glass it holds heat worse and so needs higher brewing temps or longer steep times. You can try wrapping the glass FP with a towel to reduce heat loss.

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

For steeping, as soon as the boiled water has stopped rolling/bubbling, it goes in the brewer (preheat if you have the option, large brew volumes may not allow this with a regular kitchen kettle - make sure your kettle doesn't taint the taste, some do, some don't), if you want to measure the water temp & add the coffee at a specific point then go ahead, but I'd be surprised if the brew water is much over 90C after being transferred to the brewer.


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## mr kean bean

Cool. Well I just use a regular (preheated with hot tap water) glass bodum (either 3,4 or 8 cup) and a regular stainless steel electric kettle (filled about a fifth full). I do have at my disposal a cheap Chinese digital thermometer. What temp should the water be just before pouring?


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## dsc

If the brewer is cold, boiling water straight in will probably give you less than 90degC, of course depends how much water you put in. If you have a pre-heated brewer and put off-the-boil water in, I think you will end up with around 95degC. If anyone is interested I have a thermocouple datalogger and can do a graph of different scenarios.

Regards,

T.


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## mr kean bean

Wow, so add water more or less as soon as it's stopped bubbling. Will try that instead of waiting a minute..


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> Why the difference then, if you don't stir during cupping, why stir when brewing? also you normally break the crust when cupping, so why allow for such a long steep that there's no crust left? Cupping is the moment when you want to get the most out of the coffee, you really want it brewed optimally, and the method behind cupping is rather crude / simple, cover coffee in water and leave. With a French Press you see a totally different approach for some reason.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Well, I do think that in everyday circumstances, though the two can dovetail considerably, they are procedures with a different goal.

Cupping is a protocol, strikes me more as a diagnostic state for meaningful comparison of different coffees. I'm struggling a bit with the phrase "the moment when you want to get the most out of the coffee", if this is when you break the crust...why go back & taste as it cools/develops? Is there a moment when all coffees shine equally?

With a French press you're typically brewing one coffee at a time (unless you're doing a quasi-cupping comparison), if it's being shared you're likely going to want to give all parties a consistent cup/mug, rather than having them all have something different, or popping back to the pot, as it cools, to slurp out the contents. People are funny about double dipping these days ;-)

It often doesn't take long for the crust to sink of it's own accord, maybe 7-8 minutes? Some dark roasted coffees can still have significant "crust" after an hour...I don't know why, may be related to moisture content/age etc.?


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## MWJB

mr kean bean said:


> Wow, so add water more or less as soon as it's stopped bubbling. Will try that instead of waiting a minute..


Yes, but I wouldn't pour this on to the grinds (but feel free to give it a go...), water in first with this technique.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> If the brewer is cold, boiling water straight in will probably give you less than 90degC, of course depends how much water you put in. If you have a pre-heated brewer and put off-the-boil water in, I think you will end up with around 95degC. If anyone is interested I have a thermocouple datalogger and can do a graph of different scenarios.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Ha ha, "if anyone is interested"...I think you know the answer ;-) That would be great when you get time, thanks.


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## mr kean bean

MWJB, so water first and then add coffee immediately?


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## MWJB

Yes, then fold in the coffee at the surface, when it appears to be evenly wet I give it a quick light stir, you can either leave a crust to float, or submerge the grinds a little with the plunger, as is your preference.

My reasoning is that I want the coffee to contact the water at the most consistent temperature & with minimum/controlled agitation. If you pour onto grounds, I can't help feeling you get grinds subjected to varying contact temperature and unavoidable, possibly uneven, agitation (maybe not an issue if you are careful & precise).

For pourover, or if speed is a concern (commercial environment), then I would pour water of the desired temp onto the coffee. But at home neither I nor the coffee will have any competing engagements (if I want a quick cup I'll do a pourover), at work a brewer that can be left if I'm caught on the phone, without subsequently ruining, is a bonus.


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## mr kean bean

Okay thanks for the explanation. Will give that a try for sure..



> if speed is a concern, then I would pour water of the desired temp onto the coffee


It often is for me, even at home. Will try out the 6802II thermometer, which has been sitting around since arriving. Aim for 90c ish before pouring over grinds, I guess..


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## MWJB

mr kean bean said:


> Okay thanks for the explanation. Will give that a try for sure..
> 
> It often is for me, even at home. Will try out the 6802II thermometer, which has been sitting around since arriving. Aim for 90c ish before pouring over grinds, I guess..


I'd aim a bit higher before pouring, 94C-97C?, if you pour at 90C you'll lose some temp & the slurry will be brewing lower than this.


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## mr kean bean

Tried it this morning and happy with the result. Nine clicks on the porlex. Just off bubbling water straight into heated bodum. Add coffee, fold in, stir gently, maybe plunge the top couple of millimeters, leave for say 10 mins or so, pour without plunging.

Pouring without plunging does cool down the coffee a bit (because it trickles out) but that's not necessarily a problem..


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> Well, I do think that in everyday circumstances, though the two can dovetail considerably, they are procedures with a different goal.
> 
> Cupping is a protocol, strikes me more as a diagnostic state for meaningful comparison of different coffees. I'm struggling a bit with the phrase "the moment when you want to get the most out of the coffee", if this is when you break the crust...why go back & taste as it cools/develops? Is there a moment when all coffees shine equally?
> 
> With a French press you're typically brewing one coffee at a time (unless you're doing a quasi-cupping comparison), if it's being shared you're likely going to want to give all parties a consistent cup/mug, rather than having them all have something different, or popping back to the pot, as it cools, to slurp out the contents. People are funny about double dipping these days ;-)
> 
> It often doesn't take long for the crust to sink of it's own accord, maybe 7-8 minutes? Some dark roasted coffees can still have significant "crust" after an hour...I don't know why, may be related to moisture content/age etc.?


I'm simply surprised that normally for cupping you pour water in and leave for 4-5min, but for FP you pour, agitate, stir mid brew etc. there's a rather big difference in cupping brewing and normal brewing, which I don't quite get.

As for pouring water in and droping the coffee, I find it more complicated than standard coffee -> water as you have to mix everything rather well to avoid massive underextraction. That or brew longer.

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> I'm simply surprised that normally for cupping you pour water in and leave for 4-5min, but for FP you pour, agitate, stir mid brew etc. there's a rather big difference in cupping brewing and normal brewing, which I don't quite get.
> 
> As for pouring water in and droping the coffee, I find it more complicated than standard coffee -> water as you have to mix everything rather well to avoid massive underextraction. That or brew longer.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Well, I avoid any agitation after the initial wet & stir, I don't stir mid brew...maybe just a little at the surface if any grinds are still floating.

Sure, I see regarding the mixing and you're probably right, I have seen it retard extraction...but if your after a fast brew, steeping probably isn't the way to do it at home (in a café, where speed is important, is another matter). I find the fact that you can brew longer a benefit and gets pretty consistent results.


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## dsc

I know it depends how you brew, but many FP brew guides show all sorts of stirring, waiting, topping up, re-stirring etc. it's all those extra steps which I don't get and not a lot of people seem to know why they are there either It's a bit like espresso at the very beginning, people used to say, you have to tamp with ##N/sqm or it won't work. No one knew the reason behind it, it just was something passed on from one to another. In my opinion brewed coffee is a bit like that now, a lot of people tell you to do different things, but when you ask why, they most often reply with 'not sure but it seems to work'









Regards,

T.


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## Kyle548

Ugh, I just mistakenly took the last sip.


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## mr kean bean

The only downside to the 'don't plunge' method is that it trickles out very slowly and can be a bit messy too. This is with a standard glass Bodum. I tend to pour the whole brew into a heated thermos (for gradual consumption over half hour or so) and there is the danger of it cooling down a bit too much being so slow to trickle. Just wondering if the Le Crueset trickles any quicker?

BTW, something I like to consume when drinking coffee in the morning is Raw cacao beans with decent quality raw honey. Put one bean on a teaspoon with a squirt/ dab of honey. Nice!


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## MWJB

There shouldn't be any difference to flow from the pot (assuming the lid is one the right way round), make sure before you pour that any floating grinds have sunk & aren't clogging the mesh, when you taste the coffee to see if it is ready. Just a touch from the back of a spoon should see them drop to the bottom of the brewer, then leave a further minute or two for everything to settle.


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## CrazyH

I question how much difference the stirring/not stirring really makes. I will generally stir it a few time as if not it looks like much of the coffee gets caught up in the CO2 foam and doing nothing. By the end of the brew the majority of the coffee has sunk to the bottom so I get little resistance when pushing down, then stop once I hit the mound of grounds at the bottom.

I generally have better luck/consistency with making a a large litre of the stuff compared to a single serving, I guess the margins for error are bigger the more you make.

I use a slightly finer grind than normal, as my grinder just works badly at a very coarse setting, just let the sludge sink to the bottom, though as I'm used to drinking Turkish sludge is of no bother to me. For a non-coffee geek I think French press provides the most satisfying coffee due to the richness and the mouth-feel. I wish more cafes would offer it.


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## gmason

I agree with your comments that the FP delivers the (or one of the) most satisfying coffee in-the-mouth-feel and taste of just about any other preparation method. A good technique will help highlight the flavours and subtilities that bring a good single origin or great coffee blend alive.

I start every day with the FP (Technivorm on weekends or days off) and have been doing so for some 30 years. It's the pot I reach for when people drop in. I have gone through a large number of jugs and pots over the years including a device where the coffee was pulled up through the water and the basket snapped into the underside of the lid. As has been stated earlier, there are lots of tweaks and personal spins to put on the technique, but it is how it tastes in the cup that really matters. For me, it's all about weight, grind and temperature and really soaking the grounds. Whether I stir or just break the crust doesn't make a huge amount of difference.

Good espresso-based preparations are of course fantastic, but there are times when you just want a satisfying cup (or two) of coffee. The FP ticks the box time after time and the financial outlay is minimal (Espro excluded).


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## CrazyH

I made myself a single mug this morning, it didn't come out great. When I make a litre (for several cups/people) the coffee sinks to the bottom, but in the smaller pot it tends to stay at the top, wondering if this is just a weight of water thing, but I get way more dust making t in to my final cup. The larger pot seems more tolerant of poor grind, and possibly other factors, I'm tempted to get some pre-ground for my next bag now that I've finished my bag. If I get better results I would invest in a grinder (currently using some delonghi thing) which produces consistent size grinds but a lot of dust amongst it.


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## MWJB

The trouble with making smaller volumes is heat loss & slowed extraction, risk of a cooler final beverage. If you leave it long enough all the grinds will sink...but you may have lost too much heat for your preferred drinking temp?

Also smaller brews give you less margin for leaving out the siltiest last part?

Dust isn't too much of an issue, just don't kick up the bed at the end of the brew...hold the mesh above the liquid (so it doesn't fall out the pot) & pour through it, rather than plunge.


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## CrazyH

MWJB said:


> The trouble with making smaller volumes is heat loss & slowed extraction, risk of a cooler final beverage. If you leave it long enough all the grinds will sink...but you may have lost too much heat for your preferred drinking temp?
> 
> Also smaller brews give you less margin for leaving out the siltiest last part?
> 
> Dust isn't too much of an issue, just don't kick up the bed at the end of the brew...hold the mesh above the liquid (so it doesn't fall out the pot) & pour through it, rather than plunge.


May well be part of it. I'll try that and some other variables a go.


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## dsc

I've moved away from the CCD as I've never had much success with it and now mostly brew with an insulated bodum FP and filter the brew through a Chemex. I've been using Mark's long brew method, which seems to be giving good results if you nail the grind. I've also experimented with stirring (for a 30s - 60s operiod) but that is a bit of hit and miss, although I'm curious why no one stirs in any of the brewing methods. Wasn't there something called a Trifecta which used to stir / cause turbulence in the brew?

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

Hi Tom,

I think the Trifecta uses bubble agitation to accelerate extraction? It's a relatively short brew time AFAIK?

My feeling is, with steeped coffee & longish steeps, that once the grounds are fully & evenly wet...that's probably "enough" & might be ideal, or what you can get away with, but you only know you have overdone it when your coffee tastes like caramelised prunes! ;-) A little agitation can even out the brew, but more than is necessary won't make any measurable difference to extraction (TDS & yield) it'll just ruin the flavour. I tend to think it has more to do with the softened grinds breaking down & increasing particulates in the cup, rather than overextraction of dissolved solids per se. The quicker the brew method, the less impact this may have...but I have ruined short steeps (4min) with a full minute of stirring.

Very fine grinds for steep, or drip, can often do with a stir at the start to prevent dry clumps than can fail to be evenly extracted.


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## dsc

What you are saying Mark is similar to my findings, I've also ruined a few standard 4min brews by stirring for a minute or so. Leaving the brew as is, without touching the grinds seems to give me the best results, but I'm curious as to why? As you said, agitation past a certain point doesn't really affect TDS (initial stirs do though), but it does something with the taste profile.

I do indeed stir at the beginning to get things wet and clump-less, but afterwards try not to disturb the brew at all.

Regards,

Tom


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## MWJB

By the way, I've "moved away" from the CCD (new version) too...might come back to it if massochistic urges get the better of me! ;-) still like the old one, may try the Bonavita version if they come back into stock in the UK.


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## CrazyH

Been doing a bit more experimenting.

I'm finding that I usually prefer a lower temperature (I'm guessing it could be below 90), pouring boiling water in to an unheated beaker, leaving to cool for a bit, then adding the coffee, gently fold and stir. Folding again after 30 seconds and then just leaving for as long as possible.

Seems to lose a bit of complexity as opposed to using a higher temperature but most of the time I favour the smoothness.


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## chrisah1

I know we have departed a bit from this - but any other cafetiere/FP suggestions that are double walled and perhaps made of glass? can only find john lewis and la cafetiere 800ml ones....


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## dsc

Any reason why you'd want glass?

Regards,

T.


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## chrisah1

I like to look at the colour of the brew.

I also find it easier to verify it's fully cleaned.


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## urbanbumpkin

I use a french press at work to make a coffee for a colleague and me although I never weigh the amount I put in. I dens to just add milk to it or drink it black on a standard sized mug.

How much to you dose per person for french press? I'm guessing I probably put in 15g per person (x2 so about 30g for both of us)


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## garydyke1

60g-65g per litre is a good place to start


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## urbanbumpkin

Cheers Gary. So based on an average mug holding 300-350ml then that works out at a 20g-21g dose per mug?


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## MWJB

I like 56g/l for a long steep, but for shorter steeps anything up to ~70g/l can work. It's a balance between concentration vs time & what you're looking to bring out of the coffee...oh yeah, and how much time you have ;-)


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## chrisah1

MWJB said:


> I like 56g/l for a long steep, but for shorter steeps anything up to ~70g/l can work. It's a balance between concentration vs time & what you're looking to bring out of the coffee...oh yeah, and how much time you have ;-)


And how much money! coffee not getting any cheaper these days.


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## MWJB

chrisah1 said:


> And how much money! coffee not getting any cheaper these days.


Ha ha...but remember that you can use the same amount of coffee per cup (e.g. 14g), just less water to get the desired ratio (250g for 56g/l, 200g for 70g/l). ;-)


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## dsc

I'm battling through another bag of HasBean beans and I'm not doing very well. With SQM I tend to get a lot of sourness and long brews tend to fix that, but with HB I mostly get bitterness. A lot of it as well. I've done a 15min brew yesterday in a French Press and it was vile, I mean seriously vile. TDS measured was 1.46%, beans are medium roast, nothing super dark or bright, sort of in the middle. I've tried going finer, but that bitterness stays with the brew anyways. Coarser and I get coffee tinted water.

This is not the first bag of HB that I've struggled with, normally SQM comes to the rescue, but surely this must be workable, HB tends to hold it's ground.

Regards,

T.


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## CrazyH

dsc said:


> I'm battling through another bag of HasBean beans and I'm not doing very well. With SQM I tend to get a lot of sourness and long brews tend to fix that, but with HB I mostly get bitterness. A lot of it as well. I've done a 15min brew yesterday in a French Press and it was vile, I mean seriously vile. TDS measured was 1.46%, beans are medium roast, nothing super dark or bright, sort of in the middle. I've tried going finer, but that bitterness stays with the brew anyways. Coarser and I get coffee tinted water.
> 
> This is not the first bag of HB that I've struggled with, normally SQM comes to the rescue, but surely this must be workable, HB tends to hold it's ground.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Which beans are you using? I had success with the indian peaberry, less with the natural sumatra.


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## dsc

I'll need to check the bag, I tend to order 10-15 bags and pick them out of the freezer randomly.

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> I'm battling through another bag of HasBean beans and I'm not doing very well. With SQM I tend to get a lot of sourness and long brews tend to fix that, but with HB I mostly get bitterness. A lot of it as well. I've done a 15min brew yesterday in a French Press and it was vile, I mean seriously vile. TDS measured was 1.46%, beans are medium roast, nothing super dark or bright, sort of in the middle. I've tried going finer, but that bitterness stays with the brew anyways. Coarser and I get coffee tinted water.
> 
> This is not the first bag of HB that I've struggled with, normally SQM comes to the rescue, but surely this must be workable, HB tends to hold it's ground.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Hi Tom,

What's your brew ratio?


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## dsc

The coffee is HB Nicaragua Finca La Escondida Washed Catuai (damn that's a long name), here's the brewing data:









EDIT: not sure why but the retarded attachment gets resized for some reason.

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

Ahh, 21% the "dead zone"! ;-) Once you overshoot 20%, you have to hang in for 22%...might take a while...

Regarding attachment size, I just save the chart data & upload to Photobucket & link to that.


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## CrazyH

My latest trick has been after water to coffee, or vice versa (haven't decided which I prefer of if there is much difference here) is to push down the plunger enough to submerge all the grinds instead of stirring a lot to wet them all. I use the stuff above the plunger as a taste measure, as it were, just pour a sip to see how it's doing. Then when I want to drink I pour without plunging. By this point much of the coffee has sunk instead of forming a cake at the top so the pouring is much quicker than it otherwise would have been (in the past I have given up on this method because it just seems to get stuck) and I seem to get a lot less sludge in my cup. I haven't quite figured out why but it could be that a)The fines have sunk to the bottom more easily, b) There is no plunge and it doesn't cause turbulence in the water, so not kicking up the dust.

I haven't tried this on the larger press, I don't think it will work as well because the water has to pass through a lot more coffee, on the other hand it is wider so that might balance it out.


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## Kyle548

What grind setting do you guys usually use?

I always tend to use a tight grind, maybe a fine V60 grind - traditional FP wisdom would dictate a coarse grind, but I wonder how true this is?

For me, typical brew time >>> 30 mins, fine grind, add water, the coffee, fold the coffee into the water for bloom. After bloom, top water up and stir and then occasionally stir.

With this method, the first brew out of a bag tends to be incredible, thick and very pronounced flavours. I find repeatability after the first brew of a bag somewhat lacking though....


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## CrazyH

hmm, so this morning I had some coffee left in my press (made for two in the big one and made a tad too much) which I poured out, was pretty bitter and extra sludgy but drinkable... I remembered I had some melita paper filters from the drip machine I was 'taking care' of for a while and wondered what would happen if I just crudely poured it through in to another mug, it was cool enough to just do this by hand in the sink.

What came out was surprisingly pleasant. There was still a fair amount of visible oil but most of the coffee dust was now in the filter. Drinking it it was a bit thinner in feel, more tea like. Although it was still fairly bitter I also got a clean sweetness which I didn't get before the filter. I would quite like to try a regular cup like this but can't think of a way how to do it without buying something like a clever dripper.


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## MWJB

I used to filter French presses & Sowdens a lot, sometimes still do. I'd be sure to use bleached white papers, like Filtropa/Chemex. You can get a cheap, plastic, Melitta style cone for a couple of quid from James Gourmet, for instance. Place this over a jug and pour in your finished French press brew.

Things to bear in mind:

The filter can change the taste of the coffee. The coffee may taste fine unfiltered, but may still be a little under - filtering can make this much more apparent.

The filter paper alone does not fully filter the coffee, in a drip situation the bed of grounds does a lot of the filtering too, so you still usually get some sediment.

Filtering the fines from a French press can clog up the more desirable papers and can add up to 10+ minutes to your brew time.

...because of all the above, I don't filter French presses so much these days. But for smaller brews (up to 2 mugs) the Aeropress is also good for filtering a French press, let the first cup drain under gravity, then plunge the remainder through, saves a lot of time.

The Bonavita immersion drip cone is a good option for a filtered, steeped brew.

I'm a bit concerned you're getting bitterness? Was it just the siltier remains, after the 2 intitial cups, that were bitter?


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## CrazyH

MWJB said:


> I'm a bit concerned you're getting bitterness? Was it just the siltier remains, after the 2 initial cups, that were bitter?


The actual brew was fine (actually came out pretty well), a touch of bitterness, but the good kind, at the end there was a small amount of water left in a lot of coffee so I guess that's why it went bitter, still drinkable. When I have bad brews they are sour, rather than bitterness (and it would have to be rather bitter to actually bother me), not sure if this is under extraction or not as I only really get it on lighter roasts (hasbean) and it doesn't taste weak and sour, just sour. Darker roasts seem to be considerably less temperamental/reliable, this was a mix of Rave peruvian(medium-dark) and monsoon malabar (proper oily dark). My hunch is that it's primarily temperature related as I've used the same amount of coffee/water and got very different cups but that's the factor I'm using the most guesswork on.

There was some sediment that made it through the paper but considerably less than what was left on the paper, it just struck me that I was able to taste flavours that I couldn't taste otherwise, as if the sediment gets in the way.

The cheap holder looks like a pretty good way of trying it out, perhaps once I've got through a tad more coffee I'll bundle it in with some beans. I was planning on picking up an aeropress at some point (next time I'm in a cafe that is selling one, probably).


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## MWJB

CrazyH said:


> When I have bad brews they are sour, rather than bitterness (and it would have to be rather bitter to actually bother me), not sure if this is under extraction or not as I only really get it on lighter roasts (hasbean) and it doesn't taste weak and sour, just sour. Darker roasts seem to be considerably less temperamental/reliable, this was a mix of Rave peruvian(medium-dark) and monsoon malabar (proper oily dark). My hunch is that it's primarily temperature related as I've used the same amount of coffee/water and got very different cups but that's the factor I'm using the most guesswork on.


Darker roasted beans tend to have higher solubility levels, so that may be a factor. If your method is kept pretty much the same, strike temperature is only going to vary nominally (and only remain at that variable temp difference for short while, when considering brew temp over the whole steep) and probably not impact greatly on extraction level, but can certainly affect flavour (at a given extraction).


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## CrazyH

e.g.

On the hasbean present (very light roast), the first time I made it I added it in to the water and I got a really nice drink at the end of it all. Second time I added in to the press first and poured in from what should have been a cooled down kettle, slowly and allowing for blooming. They came out very different, although still drinkable,the second cup was not nearly as nice whilst drinking as the acidity dominated - but the aftertaste was still very good.

With the rave mix I have tried both water first and coffee first and there isn't an obvious difference.

Edit: following on from what you said about it being more soluble the water first method would have undergone more agitation as I had to fold/stir, which I guess could have made a difference. I guess the logical thing to do would be to try and do the same thing next time I use those beans..


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## MWJB

Interesting, I'm not sold on the benefits of blooming with a French press - like you, I have found that the folding in of the grinds at the start of the steep helps kick start extraction. Letting a crust form & sedentary bloom for 30seconds or so can mean a brew takes a lot longer to reach the same level of extraction.

My take is steeped brews extract quickly at first, then extraction plateaus after a few minutes. Anything that you have done to inhibit extraction at the very start is very difficult to make up later (e.g. stirring/agitating later into a brew is a bad idea), so I'm all for gently folding/amalgamating grinds & water together straight away.


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## CrazyH

MWJB said:


> Interesting, I'm not sold on the benefits of blooming with a French press - like you, I have found that the folding in of the grinds at the start of the steep helps kick start extraction. Letting a crust form & sedentary bloom for 30 seconds or so can mean a brew takes a lot longer to reach the same level of extraction.
> 
> My take is steeped brews extract quickly at first, then extraction plateaus after a few minutes. Anything that you have done to inhibit extraction at the very start is very difficult to make up later (e.g. stirring/agitating later into a brew is a bad idea), so I'm all for gently folding/amalgamating grinds & water together straight away.


Will take that to note. I guess when you have the bloom a lot of the coffee is stuck in bubbles so although the fall of water is moving it, it's moving it around air which isn't really doing much. I don't get the point of having a crust form, it makes sense for the cupping thing when you want to a release an aroma as part of the process, I guess. Perhaps on the darker roasts you can get away with it more as it's more soluble and there is less acidity in the bean to start with, so less reason for sourness.

I'll try repeating what I did first time round on those beans.


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## CrazyH

Was able to conduct a couple of non-scientific experiments...

This morning I made a pot of some hasbean natural sumtara which I've been getting through rather slowly, as I haven't had consistent brews and the better ones I haven't enjoyed that much (I think I actually just don't like these beans that much) but anyhow this was one of the better ones.

I moved my el-cheapo delonghi 'burr' grinder a couple notches finer so that it was set to 'medium' As far as I can tell this is still course enough for the standard grinds to not pass through the mesh and the fines/powder, if anything seem to be less. Anyhow I was in a rush so it probably got only 5 minutes.

Did water, gave it a decent fold/stir and pressed the plunger enough to submerge the coffee. It looked like around half the coffee formed a bed/cake and the other half sank/floated around the rest of the water, but the bed was falling apart I reckon if I had left it long enough it would have gone. I have no idea why sometimes it forms this bed and sometimes it doesn't, generally speaking the ones that sink tend to come out better.

I then proceeded to pour half in to a mug and half through a filter. This time round the unfiltered was better . The unfiltered cup was heavy but with fruity notes and some tartness, not quite sour but it doesn't really match the body and just tastes a bit weird, maybe it'd be better as an espresso. The filtered cup was not as good as it killed off much of what I do like about the coffee which is the thick body, both feel and flavour whilst leaving the fruity notes, but they aren't particularly good fruity notes, although it was touch sweeter.

Other thing to note- the unfiltered had very little silt in it, it was the first half of the pot, I'm not going to start doing this half filtered thing or chuck half of it away but might be reasonable to not pour every last drop.

I did similar with the hasbean christmas gift pacamara, was late so a very small brew. Fortunately it came out well this time. Here there was a difference between the filtered and unfiltered, more subtle than the sumatra but it was there, I wouldn't say either was better. The unfiltered was a tad richer, more pleasing initially but the filtered had a bit more sweetness and the fruity flavours (good ones here) came through more.

more digging to be done, think I'm going to give the clever a try, quite cheap and would give me an option that requires less cleaning!


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