# time for a new machine, any recomendations



## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

Hi guys and girls, can anyone please recommend a decent espresso machine for a budget of £250. I currently have a Stellar coffee maker which needs replacing. I have a grinder so will be grinding my own coffee.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Take a look at a Gaggia Classic. Currently there are a lot of VG deals around well sub £200. What grinder do you hope to use?


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## oldroaster (Jun 19, 2012)

Agree with Ron. Just serviced a very old Classic and it's still making excellent espresso. A serious machine at this price point.

Lots of users on this forum says a lot too.

Good luck,

OR


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## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

thanks a lot for the info guys, I have been read a lot of good stuff on the classic, any other recommendation? I am going to be using a Bodum Bistro Electric Burr Coffee grinder.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

The Gaggia Classic or Gaggia Baby Class are really the only machines I would consider under £400 unless you look at second hand machines. Both machines are essentially the same on the inside with different cases although the Classic is easier to modify if that interests you. I believe someone mentioned a special offer on the Classic in another thread of £150 new from either Comet or Dixons.

It is also worth noting that the Bodum Bistro burr grinder, whilst capable of filter grind, may not grind fine enough for espresso. You may need to consider an espresso burr grinder like the Iberital MC2.


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

You can modify Baby's the same as you can classics as they use the same boiler/solenoid setup and are very identical inside. OPV valve, Silvia wand can be fitted on the baby as well as the classic.


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## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

jimbow said:


> The Gaggia Classic or Gaggia Baby Class are really the only machines I would consider under £400 unless you look at second hand machines. Both machines are essentially the same on the inside with different cases although the Classic is easier to modify if that interests you. I believe someone mentioned a special offer on the Classic in another thread of £150 new from either Comet or Dixons.
> 
> It is also worth noting that the Bodum Bistro burr grinder, whilst capable of filter grind, may not grind fine enough for espresso. You may need to consider an espresso burr grinder like the Iberital MC2.


can you please post a link to the thread, I did search with out any luck!


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## Toby-IOM (Aug 8, 2012)

I would get a classic from comet @£149 and put the other £100 towards a grinder. A lot of folk recommend the inerital MC2 which comes in at about £130 iirc


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Toby-IOM said:


> I would get a classic from comet @£149 and put the other £100 towards a grinder.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I regret to say Comet are showing an 'out of stock' position on the Classic


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## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

Yeh the one at comet is out of stock


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## maps (Aug 31, 2012)

I just bought a classic off simply electricals for £169 with free delivery.


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## fluffykiwi (Dec 19, 2011)

someone is selling a second hand bezzera on here for your budget.

IMHO way better than the gaggia and assuming it is in good nic (that is the assumption) will be way better in the long run.

-you would have to save up for your new grinder though!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

fluffykiwi said:


> someone is selling a second hand bezzera on here for your budget.


That would be Oldroaster


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## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

fluffykiwi said:


> someone is selling a second hand bezzera on here for your budget.
> 
> IMHO way better than the gaggia and assuming it is in good nic (that is the assumption) will be way better in the long run.
> 
> -you would have to save up for your new grinder though!


tnanks mate I will give him a PM


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## denishicks8 (Jul 18, 2012)

Making a good cup of espresso is something of an art form, and the best espresso machines are themselves works of art. As well they should be, given how much they cost and how much time you'll spend using them .These espresso makers are bigger, heavier, and more difficult to use than their steam-driven cousins.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I've always found the opposite really...the more you pay the easier it is to produce good espresso.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Expobarista said:


> I've always found the opposite really...the more you pay the easier it is to produce good espresso.


Absolutely. Same in the film world (as used to be), much easier to get a good picture out of a 35mm movie camera than a 16mm, and 8mm cameras were a nightmare.

Certainly I'm finding hard to get a bad espresso out of my Cremina. With my Gaggia Classic it was always hit and miss (but easier when I installed a PID). The better the machine, the better the temperature stability, which is key.

And let's stop this bullshit about making espresso being an art. At best it's a craft; learn how to do it, use the right materials and tools and it works.

I think the really high end machines like the Kees van der Westen are beautiful objects (almost works of art) but they are also made to cater to a barista culture that loves tweaking and creating mystique. Which is fine, but here I think our job here is to demystify the process.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Any machine which removes some of the need for trial-and-error (temp stability) and guesswork (PID) can only be a good thing.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Any machine which removes some of the need for trial-and-error (temp stability) and guesswork (PID) can only be a good thing.


That's for sure. However these objectives can be achieved at a fraction of the cost of the (almost) totally professional machines.

There are exceptional machines, not to be overlooked, sub £2000


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Indeed. In all honesty, I'm not convinced that a PID Silvia produces inferior results to my Expo, it just is nowhere as easy to live with.


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

I have owned a couple of Gaggia Classics previously and they are great entry level machines. If you can get a well looked after second hand one from Ebay/Classifieds it would free up some money for a new grinder as well.


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## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

:drink:







Got my self a gaggia classic thanks a lot for the help guys. Just got one problem now! (as stated!!) I need a better grinder now, my old one is just not working with the classic







!!. any ideas on a nice but cheap one? Someone mentioned the Iberital MC2, is this any good? I have had a look on happydonkey and they seem to have 2 different variations an auto and a doser. which of the two is better? budget is around £150 thanks a lot guys.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

The MC2 is an excellent buy - there is really nothing to touch it at that price. You want the auto model which dispenses directly into your portafiler and has a timer. Dosers only really work if you are grinding coffee continually, otherwise stale grinds build up in the grinder.

The only real drawback of the MC2 is it takes forever to adjust from, say, espresso to filter or cafetiere. But if you are using it just for espresso, it does the job well - it will grind very fine and also allows very fine adjustments.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Good advice from RoloD. The only other reason you might want to consider the doser model is that doserless grinders can produce quite clumpy grounds - the act of dispensing the grounds from a doser tends to break up any clumps. However, you can always break up any clumps yourself in the portafilter using a paperclip or similar (see WDT - Weiss Distribution Technique).

If you keep the Bodum Bistro grinder then you should be able to continue using it for French press and all your brewed coffee needs and use the MC2 exclusively for espresso. This way you will not need to keep switching the grind back and forth on the MC2


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

I have a MC2 Doserless model and unless i spend a lot of money or get luck second hand i wont be changing for a long time, dont now how anyone can say it has a clumpy output =

View attachment 1528


this was strait from the chute and is better than a lot of grinders that cost considerably more, i dont think its perfect, but for the money its not far off.


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## Blackstone (Aug 5, 2012)

RoloD said:


> The MC2 is an excellent buy - there is really nothing to touch it at that price. You want the auto model which dispenses directly into your portafiler and has a timer. Dosers only really work if you are grinding coffee continually, otherwise stale grinds build up in the grinder.
> 
> The only real drawback of the MC2 is it takes forever to adjust from, say, espresso to filter or cafetiere. But if you are using it just for espresso, it does the job well - it will grind very fine and also allows very fine adjustments.


Could you please expand on the grinder taking a long time to adjust. I have just ordered one myself


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## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

Agree, would have never called the grinds from my MC2 clumpy, didn't realise how good it was until I used a eureka grinder at BB and that was coming out like marbles.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Some doserless grinders suffer more than others (especially on finer grind settings). If I recall correctly, the MC2 uses a conical burr set; this could be causing less clumping than the disk burrs used on other doserless grinders like the Eureka Mignon.


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## anubis (Aug 29, 2012)

thanks a lot guys and girls, sounds like the MC2 is the one to go for. I have been playing around with classic and I cant seem to get any good results when steaming milk. I know some people swap it for the silvia steam arm, my only problem with this is since my classic is new will removing the steam arm affect the warranty or is there a way around it?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

You can always refit the original one before sending it back for repair if that's the case. Definitely a necessary upgrade!

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

jimbow said:


> Some doserless grinders suffer more than others (especially on finer grind settings). If I recall correctly, the MC2 uses a conical burr set; this could be causing less clumping than the disk burrs used on other doserless grinders like the Eureka Mignon.


Just replace and chuck it back on if you need to get it looked at. They'll never know.


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