# Sour Shots (I think) - what am I doing wrong?



## Yavid2001 (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi all

I posted a few weeks ago as to whether I should buy a Silvano or a Fracino machine... and at the weekend I took receipt of a Amazon Warehouse Gaggia Classic and a Vario!

The trouble I'm having, I think, is that my shots are coming out sour.

My set up:

- Machine left on to warm up for 30 mins (portafilter (two spout model) left in).

- Double basket (non-pressurised (purchased from HD)) - however, I did also order a bottomless portafilter from HD (which I understand comes with a 18g basket) - and, for some reason I took them both out of the portafilter to compare the two and now I don't know what basket I am using (all I know is that one basket snaps into place better than the other in the bottomless portafilter)

- Vario - dialed in to "2" and have used a range of micro-adjustments from "C" to "H" - they don't make much difference in taste (to me)

- 15g/16g/17g all tried - no difference noticed in taste

- Tamper - HD tamper (seems too small though for the baskets as there is some wiggle-room) - moderate pressure applied (no idea how much)

- Beans - Nude Espresso 'East' (roasted on 24th) - haven't tried any other beans yet

Pour:

- From flick of switch, 2ozs coming out in 25-30 seconds into two 1oz lined shot glasses. I stop when the crema just exceeds the 1oz line.

*So...*

*
*

1) Shall I change the beans/grinder settings? What do other Vario users use?

2) I'm not sure which basket I'm using - and how many grams should I use?

3) Any other tips to avoid other sour shots?

*Frothing - another issue*

*
*I replaced the steam wand with the Silvia steam arm. Trouble is I am struggling to get micro foam for latte art - I guess this is typical for a newbie. I am using a motta 350ml jug - semi-skimmed filled up to just under the bottom of the spout (just under halfway). I purge the condensation out of the wand. However the milk heats up to "too hot to touch" in about 10 seconds and I'm struggling to control it! Should I buy use a larger jug and use some more milk? Any tips?

Thanks for your help in advance.


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## Steve_S_T (Dec 7, 2012)

So you're heating about 300ml of milk in ten seconds? Wow, that is fast, I'd reckon on that taking closer to two minutes on my Classic with Silvia wand, but even commercial machines take longer than that I'm sure. Wiser folks than me might tell you why and how to cure the problem, but it's definitely not right. I've just exchanged my Classic after two months and in your situation would consider doing the same thing.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I think he said he's only filling the jug to under the spout, which is probably under half full. But ten seconds still seems fast!

That said, on my fracino with a 2.3 litre boiler and 4 hole steam tip, I can steam about 250ml in about 10-15 seconds lol


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I would suggest using a thermostat to monitor the heat but that sounds very quick to me.

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## Yavid2001 (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks for suggestions - it's probably about 100-150ml of milk in about 10-15 secs I would say.

Any thoughts on the shots?

Dave


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Have you tried other coffees. It may be an acidic coffee and its the acidity you don't like and perceive as sour?

It would be worth trying other blends or single origin coffees and seeing if that's the issue.

As for baskets, just use what fits in them. But a standard double needs about 15-16g of coffee... So perhaps just keep it to 16 for consistency sake.

Also at a decent grind and 16g you may not want to extract 2oz, it would be worth pulling shorter smaller shots and see what you make of those, watch the pour and try stopping the shots before any blonding.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Steaming quickly may be due to higher pressure from the boiler at 14/15bar. The OPV mod will improve shots. The other thing I notice is that you are extracting by volume not weight. If you go by weight for a double you will normally end up with between 1 and 1.5oz by volume (more including crema).

Weigh in ans weigh out, absolutely essential when dialling in.


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## Yavid2001 (Jan 10, 2013)

Thanks chaps.

Will try different beans from Nude (closest source to my work).

Just one thing I did notice was that there is often some water sitting on the puck after the shot has been pulled.

Will definitely try the weighing technique - thanks.


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## chrisalmond (Jan 18, 2013)

seriously try adjusting the OPV, I had the same horrible sour shots until tonight when I adjusted it. I have not yet measured the pressure but just turning the valve back 270 has made so much difference


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## skenno (Oct 14, 2012)

Water on top of the puck is normal. For the steaming, this video by chimpsinties really helped me...



chimpsinties said:


> I did you a little demo of me steaming on my Classic. Might help you (or at least prove it's not impossible)


Mine seems to steam very quickly too. Not sure what volume I'm steaming but it's more than enough for a large flat white. Takes about 25 seconds I think. I probably stretch the milk (the paper tearing sound on the video is key here) for 5-8 seconds then I lower the tip and find an angle that swirls the milk round as much as possible to incorporate the bubbles. Oh, I also tend to put the milk (in the jug) in the freezer while I grind the beans and pull the shot. Good luck!


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