# Advice Wanted - Your Recommendation



## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

I've been looking at this forum for a little while now, and slowly getting more involved, but am still to actually purchase my first set up.

Now I'm not necessarily in any rush, but I'm very good at spending money, so wanted to try and condense some of the knowledge in this forum before I do so.

To date I've been looking at, and provisionally decided on, getting the Sage DTP and either the Sage grinder or a Eureka Mignon. It seems like a reasonable kick off point that should get me started for a while.

I have, however, been thinking about what I might get if I chose to double my budget to c.£1000 for both, and what step up that would give me.

So, this is a request to understand what you would pick if you were starting out, had my budget, and why? Am I realistically going to be happy with a £1k setup for longer, or will I still reach upgraditus as quickly as with a £500?

My preference so far as drinks go would be flat whites, SWMBO is a latte drinker, and I'd have the occasional espresso/cortado as well.

Flavour wise I currently prefer a darker roast, chocolate, toffee, biscuit flavours over more fruity/floral, although I'm keen to expand my horizons so that would form a consideration in my grinder choice too.

Thanks in advance!

A


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I would consider reviewing your grinder choice. The importance of a decent grinder is often overlooked. The 2 grinders you have shortlisted are considered entry level and are likely to be the first things you change when (and I don't mean if) upgraditus strikes.

Don't forget to factor all the other bits and bobs into your purchase either - scales, milk jug, tamper, cleaning materials etc


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Daren said:


> I would consider reviewing your grinder choice. The importance of a decent grinder is often overlooked. The 2 grinders you have shortlisted are considered entry level and are likely to be the first things you change when (and I don't mean if) upgraditus strikes.
> 
> Don't forget to factor all the other bits and bobs into your purchase either - scales, milk jug, tamper, cleaning materials etc


Thanks for the input 

I'm fully aware the the grinders picked at present will represent a limitation to my setup, so that's partly my question.

If you had £1000 to spend on a machine and grinder, which would you choose, considering the above logic.

I should probably add that like many, space is probably a limitation, so can't really look at SJ type machines, although with mods it might just fit...


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Just bumping this in the hope of more response


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mazzer Royal/Major or other large reputable burr grinders. If you want on demand then consider holding out for Baratza Sette reviews, otherwise you just missed a damn good grinder in the form of a Mythos for £600. Generally you'll be looking at £250-£350 (my E8 was £370) for a doser large flat, and double that for an on demand version. Second hand, of course.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Thanks @Rob1

If I'm looking in the £3-500 mark for a grinder, what would people recommend to pair with, again going back to my preference for flat white etc.?

Just trying to get some more starting points for research at a new price bracket


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Maybe a used Zenith 65E (on demand), Mazzer Major (doser) for £400 and the rest on a used HX machine so you'll have plenty of steam for those milk drinks?

Don't sweat having missed the Mythos - £600 on a grinder doesn't leave enough for a machine worthy of a mythos really, and also a Mythos, good though they are, is really quite a big commercial grinder (I think Harris and Hoole use them with 3-group VA WBC machines?) Not got a very high 'WAF' and unlikely to pass the House Beautiful test unless you have a huge kitchen, coffee cellar or hipster wife!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Majors have been going for a lot less than £400 here lately.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Rob1 said:


> Majors have been going for a lot less than £400 here lately.


Yep. I have a £200-and-something one.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Jon said:


> Yep. I have a £200-and-something one.


Another one


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

coffeechap said:


> Another one


Nah same one!


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@hotmetal @Jon @coffeechap

thanks all for the input - 'WAF' isn't a term I've seen used before, but you'd be right that it would be a struggle both in approval and sizing terms.

As you say - looking at both for c.£1k all in (excluding tamper, jugs etc.), so don't think I'm yet at the stage where it makes sense to drop £600 on the grinder.

The Zenith 65e looks possible, although going to have to check the dimensions again (without the hopper it would be fine, but might struggle with...)

Is it worth going for a Mazzer Major over say a Mini or SJ?

The search continues...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

adz313 said:


> [MENTION=9015]
> 
> Is it worth going for a Mazzer Major over say a Mini or SJ?
> 
> The search continues...


Yes if you can cope with its size and the fact it's a doser unless you go for the Major electronic which is 'on demand'. Generally, the bigger the burrs' size, the better the shot.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Yes if you can cope with its size and the fact it's a doser unless you go for the Major electronic which is 'on demand'. Generally, the bigger the burrs' size, the better the shot.


I thought as much, thanks.

Size will probably be a limiting factor, and I think I'd prefer an 'on demand', which seems to attract a premium.

So maybe a mini E or the Eureka Zenith 65E as suggested by @hotmetal


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Expobar Leva Dual Boiler (a later version with integral Gicar PID) plus a Mazzer Major, both used. You might even come in under budget if you buy canny.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Obnic said:


> Expobar Leva Dual Boiler (a later version with integral Gicar PID) plus a Mazzer Major, both used. You might even come in under budget if you buy canny.


Cheers for the suggestion @Obnic - might have to find something smaller than the Major, but the Expo is a lovely looking thing.

(It would appear I've developed Upgraditus before I've even started...)


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I will probably have my Anfirm for sale before long but I need to sort my new grinder out first.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

adz313 said:


> ...It would appear I've developed Upgraditus before I've even started...)


I tried to avoid that. Failed miserably with grinders but the Leva Dual Boiler was all I needed until I got into pressure profiling. I never felt compelled to upgrade.

The leva db has good temperature control, plenty of steam power, and it's simple to maintain. It's also kitchen friendly. There are prettier machines of this variety but this is a solid workhorse capable of very good coffee. I still have mine.

I initially paired it with a mignon which was great to start with but not capable of matching the machine's best game. I tried a Mazzer Mini and a SJ, then went for a Robur. Loved the Robur but retention and sheer size meant it was a bit impractical. A modded Royal would have been a more sensible high quality option.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Obnic said:


> I tried to avoid that. Failed miserably with grinders but the Leva Dual Boiler was all I needed until I got into pressure profiling. I never felt compelled to upgrade.
> 
> The leva db has good temperature control, plenty of steam power, and it's simple to maintain. It's also kitchen friendly. There are prettier machines of this variety but this is a solid workhorse capable of very good coffee. I still have mine.
> 
> I initially paired it with a mignon which was great to start with but not capable of matching the machine's best game. I tried a Mazzer Mini and a SJ, then went for a Robur. Loved the Robur but retention and sheer size meant it was a bit impractical. A modded Royal would have been a more sensible high quality option.


I'd like to avoid it (to begin with) if possible - which is why I've broadened my horizons from the original Sage decision to something more, just undecided as yet. Almost to try and skip a step, if that makes sense.

Ultimately it'll come down to space, cost, and WAF, not necessarily in that order...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

adz313 said:


> I'd like to avoid it (to begin with) if possible - which is why I've broadened my horizons from the original Sage decision to something more, just undecided as yet. Almost to try and skip a step, if that makes sense.


Definitely. Grinder is the most important part of the equation. Invest as much as you can in it. Size, burr-wise, really does matter in the cup.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I know it sounds daft, but save your money in the long run and buy the very best you can now.

There's a lot here bought starter set ups and upgraded in no time. The higher up the ladder the easier making good espresso is.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Jason1wood said:


> I know it sounds daft, but save your money in the long run and buy the very best you can now.
> 
> There's a lot here bought starter set ups and upgraded in no time. The higher up the ladder the easier making good espresso is.


I am completely in agreement with you there. I'm probably not comfortable spending more than £1k at this stage, but would like something that at least staves off the need to look at upgrades for a while...


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Agree 100% with Jason. If it's a hobby and you like searching out, buying and trying new stuff - you'll go through no end of kit and probably money. If you just want to make good drinks with the least amount of hassle and concentrate on trying different beans - dig deep and get something you'll keep. I got very lucky early on with my machine. Went through a few grinders but happy now and don't want to think about kit any more. I reckon it's cheaper and less frustrating in the long run.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@hotmetal @Jason1wood

Thanks both for the input.

Now who wants to sell me a Expobar Leva DB and a Eureka Zenith 65E...


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Nice choice.

Get a wanted advert up in the classifieds, may give someone a gentle push to move on their machines


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Also consider smaller form large flat grinders like the Ceado E37s and Mahlkonig K30. If you've got the space for a major or Royal they can be converted to doserless either with an auberins timer or some electronics if you've got a soldering iron, but a doser isn't a bad thing really with mods to sweep it clean.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

adz313 said:


> @hotmetal @Jason1wood
> 
> Thanks both for the input.
> 
> Now who wants to sell me a Expobar Leva DB and a Eureka Zenith 65E...


I can sell you an Expobar Leva DB and SJ!


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

GCGlasgow said:


> I can sell you an Expobar Leva DB and SJ!


Tell me more...

Although the user name suggests you might be the other end of the country, and I can't imagine the Expo is light


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Expobar on for sale thread here:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?32492-Expobar-Brewtus-IV

Also have an SJ that could go with it. And yes I'm in Glasgow and Expobar is a heavy beast.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

SJ pics are in this thread

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?32752-Mazzer-SJ-wanted


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@GCGlasgow let me have a measure and a think about potential transport (I'm in Cheltenham so not exactly local), and I'll let you know.

What's the deal on the Expo ref plumb only? Looks like there might be a reservoir option (no chance of plumbing in here and the water is cack).

Thanks for the offer.

A


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Yeh it's plumb only but I've been using a water bottle, it doesn't have a water tank.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@GCGlasgow - ahh, ok - probably looking for the one with the tank as well (no plumbing likely to happen any time soon, and a bit space restricted), so will pass on this one.

thanks for pointing me to your sales thread though - GLWTS


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