# Weird taste & smell from Expobar DB tea boiler



## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi guys, I've a brand new Expobar rotary plumbed in DB @ approx two months old.

Both me and my son drink espressos and cappas all made in the Expobar and I love the machine however my wife won't drink fresh espresso coffee and neither will my daughter (caffiene thing) but they both drink tea so occasionally I make them a tea using the hot water boiler in the Expobar rather than the kettle in the kitchen and both of them complain about a 'plastic' smell and taste from the tea and there is defintely a 'taste' from the hot water from the Expobar and there is a a slight unpleasant smell to the water so they're not imagining it.

I plumbed the machine in myself, I'm a plumber, and at the time I installed a basic carbon filter (5 microns) into the supply to the Expobar only, there is a sink next to the the machine and a washing machine but only the water going to the Expobar is filtered.

We live in a soft water area but the water does taste poorly so I also fitted a carbon filter at the cold main supply to the kitchen sink and the water tastes fine at that tap.

I've run some water through the group head and there is a slight taste and smell to it but nothing like the taste and smell of the water in the hot water boiler, I can only presume that there is something in the hot water boiler pipe-work within the machine that has a plastic pipe or similar feeding the hot water boiler which is causing this smell, has anyone else noticed something similar with their Expobar DBs or is this a known issue with these machines?

Obviously I can use something to clean the machine or the pipe-work within the machine but it's odd that the problem is really only down to hot water from the hot water boiler.

Thanks

Tony


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Do you purge the steam wand after each use?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Do you purge the steam wand after each use?


Yip


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Posted a reply to something similar few days ago, I was watching a video clip from Seattle Coffee Gear and they made reference to milk being sucked back up the wand and tainting the boiler. Don't know if this could be your problem.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Was thinking the above but if you purge that shouldn't happen.

The steam boiler water can get a bit funky if it's left for a while but sounds like you use it often enough that it isn't left sitting. Not sure then.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

twotone said:


> Hi guys, I've a brand new Expobar rotary plumbed in DB @ approx two months old.
> 
> Both me and my son drink espressos and cappas all made in the Expobar and I love the machine however my wife won't drink fresh espresso coffee and neither will my daughter (caffiene thing) but they both drink tea so occasionally I make them a tea using the hot water boiler in the Expobar rather than the kettle in the kitchen and both of them complain about a 'plastic' smell and taste from the tea and there is defintely a 'taste' from the hot water from the Expobar and there is a a slight unpleasant smell to the water so they're not imagining it.
> 
> Tony


Tony, with modern prosumer machines, it's pretty difficult to get milk sucked back into the steam boiler, unless the vacuum breaker sticks closed. As it's fairly new and also you say you purge the wand, it's unlikely to be milk contamination. There are some things it could be.

The crap in them after manufacture, but you should flush the machines before you use them and I'm going to assume you have done that. if not flush out the steam boiler, by heating it up, switching machine off, getting all the water out of the HW tap you can. Then switch on and allow it to refill....do this a few times. Try the water after you have done this....and see if it's any better..If it is great, your problem solved. However, if it comes back, then it could be a different problem....which we can deal with later.

Also can you describe the smell better and does the same smell apply to the steam itself?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Tony, with modern prosumer machines, it's pretty difficult to get milk sucked back into the steam boiler, unless the vacuum breaker sticks closed. As it's fairly new and also you say you purge the wand, it's unlikely to be milk contamination. There are some things it could be.
> 
> The crap in them after manufacture, but you should flush the machines before you use them and I'm going to assume you have done that. if not flush out the steam boiler, by heating it up, switching machine off, getting all the water out of the HW tap you can. Then switch on and allow it to refill....do this a few times. Try the water after you have done this....and see if it's any better..If it is great, your problem solved. However, if it comes back, then it could be a different problem....which we can deal with later.
> 
> Also can you describe the smell better and does the same smell apply to the steam itself?


Thanks guys.

One thing that I have noticed is that the steam wand is hot to touch after steaming and that is something that is certainly different from when I first got the machine, it's not boiling to touch but it's not cool either.

When I fitted the filter the manu instructions said that the filter should be flushed and after a couple of days and any manufacturing smells would be gone etc however I can't run a tap (well I could rig something up to flush the filter) but it's been fitted for a good month now and the Expobar is on daily for hours at time but I rarely use the hot tap on the machine other than to warm cups when making a cappa so that's maybe something I have to do as suggested above so I'll do that an report back.

I don't think there's any taste or smell off the steam though but can't be sure, would have to let the steam condense into the empty milk jug so will try that too.

The smell from the hot water does smell like a plastic smell and the tastes a bit plasticky too, temp of the hot water from the hot water tap into a cup is about 90 degrees C and the PID is set at 92 degrees.

BTW, if I put a cup under the group and run hot water into the cup from the group there isn't 'much' of a taste or smell from that water, there is a very slight taste/smell but I'm putting that down to the coffee.

Tony


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

My steam wand also gets hot after steaming milk for just one or two flat whites. Kinda surprised me as it's billed as a 'cool touch' steam wand.

DavecUK, any idea what the cause might be?

Thanks.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The internal tube shrinking and causing a bit of leakage. Mine did the same, someone (davidfromsweden? his username was something from Sweden) replaced the tube to get his cool again


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks jeebsy


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

If you didn't flush the filter before hooking it up to the machine then this could cause a funny taste and/or smell. Essentially you've flushed whatever crap comes out at the start into the steam boiler maybe.

Give the boiler a few full flushes and see how you go.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

The other thing is I suppose the water in the steam boiler tends to sit there going stale and getting heated and cooled all the while. Probably it's a good idea to draw off the water in the steam boiler every so often anyway, in the way DaveC suggested, just to keep it fresh. I don't really use my water wand except for a very occasional Americano with milk, and I haven't really noticed a taste. Although DaveC had my machine before me so I know he'll have flushed the boiler. But maybe it's time I did it again.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

It is possible for the plastic tube lining the steam arm to come adrift inside , possibly through shrinkage or if it was too short when fitted. Depending on which end has come free (if it has)

It can force water down the outside of the plastic and possibly pick up taint from the pipe. OR If it has come off at the lower end it could possibly aid in drawing milk into the end of the wand. Try unscrewing the steam tip and check that the plastic tube is fitted down into the steam tip and there is no contamination in the end of the wand.

You can also release the wand at the top and do the same check.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Hi guys I've flushed the steam boiler about six times now and the taste and smell issues are getting less, still there but there is a big improvement.

I'll keep doing this a few more times but it looks as though the problem is sorted.

Thanks again for all of the replies and help.

Tony


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

I did training on an R58 we sold a guy and he'd never used the hot water tap in about 6 months. I used it to preheat a cup and it was yella!


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

funinacup said:


> I did training on an R58 we sold a guy and he'd never used the hot water tap in about 6 months. I used it to preheat a cup and it was yella!


God, that's rank!









PS, that is why I was a bit surprised at the smell thing, I use the hot water tap every time I make a coffee albeit only a small amount of hot water at a time.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Is it worth tipping the machine over on its side to drain the steam boiler (with it switched off) to get rid of anything left in the bottom of the boiler?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

El carajillo said:


> It is possible for the plastic tube lining the steam arm to come adrift inside , possibly through shrinkage or if it was too short when fitted. Depending on which end has come free (if it has)
> 
> It can force water down the outside of the plastic and possibly pick up taint from the pipe. OR If it has come off at the lower end it could possibly aid in drawing milk into the end of the wand. Try unscrewing the steam tip and check that the plastic tube is fitted down into the steam tip and there is no contamination in the end of the wand.
> 
> You can also release the wand at the top and do the same check.


I checked the tip end of the wand and the plastic tube is there and it goes into the tip, I'll need to get a spanner out of the van tomorrow to check the other end and will report back.

I presume if the plastic tube is at that end then it must likely be burst inside the wand?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Does it go right in the tip? When I changed my wand it looked maybe only a mm or two short


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Does it go right in the tip? When I changed my wand it looked maybe only a mm or two short


Aye, I think so but I'll check properly tomorrow (bit dark in the utility at night).

Does your wand (ooer missus) stay cool to touch after you have steamed with it?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

On my R58 the steam wand gets warm/hot to the touch but not hot enough to burn you. It's not like when I had the Classic with Sylvia wand which you had to hold by the rubber thing. "No-burn" wands are just that - they won't burn you but they still get hot after steaming a couple of jugs. I've heard that some people remove the inner pipe to increase steam power but personally I find the steam pretty good as it is.

I do sometimes preheat a cup using the hot water wand if it's not one that I had on the cup warmer. That's probably enough turnover for my service boiler to keep it fresh without passing too much extra water (and therefore minerals) through it.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

twotone said:


> Aye, I think so but I'll check properly tomorrow (bit dark in the utility at night).
> 
> Does your wand (ooer missus) stay cool to touch after you have steamed with it?


I've got a different wand fitted, it stays cool yeah (after doing 2x batches of milk)

hotmetal, i took the tube out mine before to try. It's not so much the burning your hands that's the issue but the milk sticks to the steam wand a lot more making it harder to clean


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Difficult to take a better photo due to camera placement on my smartphone but does this plastic tube inside my steam wand look as it should i.e. it ends a few mm shy of the end of wand once tip has been removed


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Looks fine. The tip is male thread so when screwed in pushes up against the tube.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks Michael


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

twotone said:


> I checked the tip end of the wand and the plastic tube is there and it goes into the tip, I'll need to get a spanner out of the van tomorrow to check the other end and will report back.
> 
> I presume if the plastic tube is at that end then it must likely be burst inside the wand?


I would not think it has burst, If you release the top end take care as it is spring loaded to enable rotation.After slacking nut support the wand and unscrew nut with fingers.

When you have the wand off unscrew the ball joint then you can withdraw the plastic tube from top or bottom to examine it.

Whilst off you could soak it in something like "milton" to sterilise it before replacing, removing one possible cause.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Mine does exactly the same (gets hot) and I've stripped it down and re-assembled. It still gets hot. My solution was to live with it.

Ian


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Agree. Mine won't burn but unlike in one of the wholelattelove YouTube videos where they review different models of the Brewtus and one of the engineers grips the steam wand pretty tightly with his hand to demonstrate it is cool to the touch, I wouldn't want to be doing that with mine after it's been used!


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

DoubleShot said:


> Agree. Mine won't burn but unlike in one of the wholelattelove YouTube videos where they review different models of the Brewtus and one of the engineers grips the steam wand pretty tightly with his hand to demonstrate it is cool to the touch, I wouldn't want to be doing that with mine after it's been used!


Might do the chris coffee valve and wand change like Jeebsy in the summer. More expense

Ian


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> On my R58 the steam wand gets warm/hot to the touch but not hot enough to burn you. It's not like when I had the Classic with Sylvia wand which you had to hold by the rubber thing. "No-burn" wands are just that - they won't burn you but they still get hot after steaming a couple of jugs. I've heard that some people remove the inner pipe to increase steam power but personally I find the steam pretty good as it is.
> 
> I do sometimes preheat a cup using the hot water wand if it's not one that I had on the cup warmer. That's probably enough turnover for my service boiler to keep it fresh without passing too much extra water (and therefore minerals) through it.


Thanks hotmetal, that pretty much sums up my wand, yes it's hot after steaming milk but it doesn't burn me like the Classic/Sylvia wand did as you say.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Eyedee said:


> Mine does exactly the same (gets hot) and I've stripped it down and re-assembled. It still gets hot. My solution was to live with it.
> 
> Ian


Thanks, that's reasuring, it's not a big deal I think and as long as it seems to be like this with other owners then I'm happy to live with it too.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Is it worth tipping the machine over on its side to drain the steam boiler (with it switched off) to get rid of anything left in the bottom of the boiler?


I'm late but isn't the hot water taken from a pipe located at the bottom of the boiler, whereas the steam is taken from the top? Tipping it on to the side would drain whatever small amount was stuck in the pipe but there shouldn't be anything left in the boiler (assuming I'm right about the location of the pipe).


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry I was meaning tip the machine on its side with it switched off and drain through the hot water tap. I think that takes water from the bottom (could be wrong).


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## mym (Sep 15, 2009)

Well I'm about to find out...

I've had this issue for ages, flushing out the steam boiler only helps for a very short while. As I've started making longer coffees more often I need to get it sorted... Seems mad putting on the kettle when I have supposedly ready water in the steam boiler water spout!


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## mym (Sep 15, 2009)

Although, frankly, I think I am now of the same view as Scott Rao...

https://www.scottrao.com/blog/dont-use-the-water-from-your-steam-boiler


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