# Sage express or pro - please help (1st machine! )



## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

Hi

im looking at getting my first machine and these seem good.

at £550/£600 respectively I want to do some research first

Can I have opinions, maybe review from someone who's got one?

Mainly - are they good? 
- is it worth paying £50 for the pro?

thanks


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## Apr1985 (Apr 18, 2020)

I have the pro and would certainly say it is worth the money. 
It's quicker to heat up, quicker to switch between brew and steam. It has a Three way solenoid to make clean up neater. 
also the digital display makes life easier to do decscales, cleans, change temperatures etc as you don't have to remember button combinations. 
Shame the pro doesn't have the pressure gauge but that's the only omission really.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

I've got the Sage BE and am very happy with it. I did get it for £375 from John Lewis though (Black Friday), I didn't pay full price for it. I'm very happy with it, it's a great entry level machine and makes a lovely coffee once you get to grips with it. Be advised this can take a while, it took me about 2 months to get nice, consistent coffee out of it. I knew about zero about coffee though and found all the information a bit overwhelming. There's a very helpful thread stickied in the Sage forum now for new users, that will definitely help you should you get a Sage, but be prepared for some initial frustration.

With your budget you could also consider a second hand Gaggia and new grinder, or a Lelit Anita (Lelit's version of the Sage BE), although I never see that discussed or suggested on this forum, there may be a reason for that (maybe it's rubbish!).


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> I've got the Sage BE and am very happy with it. I did get it for £375 from John Lewis though (Black Friday), I didn't pay full price for it. I'm very happy with it, it's a great entry level machine and makes a lovely coffee once you get to grips with it. Be advised this can take a while, it took me about 2 months to get nice, consistent coffee out of it. I knew about zero about coffee though and found all the information a bit overwhelming. There's a very helpful thread stickied in the Sage forum now for new users, that will definitely help you should you get a Sage, but be prepared for some initial frustration.
> 
> With your budget you could also consider a second hand Gaggia and new grinder, or a Lelit Anita (Lelit's version of the Sage BE), although I never see that discussed or suggested on this forum, there may be a reason for that (maybe it's rubbish!).


 That's great thank you so much....Not sure if I should go for the BE or for £50 the pro....any ideas? Pro has more grind options, touch screen, quicker to get hot - not read too much at the moment

oh wow £375, that's be amazing......I don't think there's any holidays upcoming for sales are there?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Wisey said:


> That's great thank you so much....Not sure if I should go for the BE or for £50 the pro....any ideas? Pro has more grind options, touch screen, quicker to get hot - not read too much at the moment
> 
> oh wow £375, that's be amazing......I don't think there's any holidays upcoming for sales are there?


 Prices have gone up/stayed high due to Covid lockdown and drop in the £ this year. Maybe there will be a Black Friday sale late in the year but January brings Brexit and the real drop in economy comes then. I wouldn't bank on getting things at a great price any time soon. Black Friday, extending into Christmas is of course the most likely time if they do happen.

The Pro I don't know much about, it was never an option for me. The BE deal was so good I jumped at it, much preferred it to the second hand Gaggia + grinder option. I also didn't want to spend too much as I wasn't sure I would 'get into coffee'. As it turns out I'm all in and already dreaming of a £1600 set up as an upgrade! (Which I won't do for some time, Sage is great for now).

The Sage BE grinder is the 'weak point' although once you understand how to use it, it's absolutely fine. It needs adjustment once you get it which is very easy to do as with factory settings, I, (and others), found it doesn't grind fine enough. Once I adjusted it (Sage allow for that, it's designed to be adjusted) it's now in a good range and fineness isn't a problem.

The pressure dial is important for a newbie I think, it gives a good visual guide for those early problems. You eventually learn not to live and die by it, but it is a good guide. Speed to get hot...BE is about 20 mins, most leave it a bit longer though, 25-30 say.

If someone with the Pro could tell you why the grinder is better (if it is?), that should swing it for you. The grinder is the most bang for buck part of a coffee set up, you can increase your output quality easiest at the beginner level with a good grinder. If it's better than the BE, ask them why, and based off that that could swing it the way of the Pro. Also ask how you know the pressure, is it through the touchscreen?

Another option for you if you want to stay in the Sage wheelhouse is the Bambino or Duo Temp Pro and get the Sage Smart Grinder Pro. That grinder is better than the one that comes with the BE I think. I haven't owned it or used it though, definitely read around the forum before going down that road, they'll be people more knowledgable than me about that.


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## Tunn300 (Apr 10, 2013)

The thing that swing the pro for me was the grinder is the same as the stand-alone Smart Grinder Pro I believe and a step up from the one that is on the Barista express.

As said above be prepared to give it a month or two to be producing really good shots with it and to do lots and lots of reading. Then potentially get in the rabbit warren of wanting to upgrade. Currently saving for a niche grinder.

I do love my pro and what I can get out of it though.


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Prices have gone up/stayed high due to Covid lockdown and drop in the £ this year. Maybe there will be a Black Friday sale late in the year but January brings Brexit and the real drop in economy comes then. I wouldn't bank on getting things at a great price any time soon. Black Friday, extending into Christmas is of course the most likely time if they do happen.
> 
> The Pro I don't know much about, it was never an option for me. The BE deal was so good I jumped at it, much preferred it to the second hand Gaggia + grinder option. I also didn't want to spend too much as I wasn't sure I would 'get into coffee'. As it turns out I'm all in and already dreaming of a £1600 set up as an upgrade! (Which I won't do for some time, Sage is great for now).
> 
> ...


 Mate that's great thanks.

i believe the pro is quicker to warm up

im sure it's the pro grinder has 30 settings to the 18 of the BE...

You talk about adjusting the grind - you quote 'sage allow for that' - don't all grinders adjust, you do mean just the slight change with the dial don't you? Sorry the way you said it it's like you can secretly take it apart and adjust it

thanks so much for the info


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Wisey said:


> Mate that's great thanks.
> 
> i believe the pro is quicker to warm up
> 
> ...


 Thats because you can!

On the sage grinders you have access to 18 or 30 settings, but if you need to go above or below this range you can easily remove the upper burr and turn it down 1 or 2 (or up, but most people don't go up) to give you access to a lower set of settings.

I think there is crossover though. So think of it like gears on a bike. The upper burr is the front chainring, the dial adjustment is like the gears at the back. So if you find you're in the bottom 5 of the settings (lighter denser roasts for example) then it might be best to adjust the inner burr.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Haha, TomHughes got there first, indeed there is a 'secret setting'! It's the 1-6 inside the machine, not the 1-18 dial on the side.

Have a quick look at this video, it'll make clear what we are referring to.


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

> 16 minutes ago, CocoLoco said:
> 
> Haha, TomHughes got there first, indeed there is a 'secret setting'! It's the 1-6 inside the machine, not the 1-18 dial on the side.
> 
> Have a quick look at this video, it'll make clear what we are referring to.


 There's just so many videos/reviews!

Just watched a video comparing the two...


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

Apr1985 said:


> I have the pro and would certainly say it is worth the money.
> It's quicker to heat up, quicker to switch between brew and steam. It has a Three way solenoid to make clean up neater.
> also the digital display makes life easier to do decscales, cleans, change temperatures etc as you don't have to remember button combinations.
> Shame the pro doesn't have the pressure gauge but that's the only omission really.


 Does the pro have a pressure gauge electronically? On the express the gauge points north, 9 or 12 bars or whatever it is.......how do you know what it is on the pro?

this is an important thing to know isn't it, so not knowing at all is baffling?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Wisey said:


> Does the pro have a pressure gauge electronically? On the express the gauge points north, 9 or 12 bars or whatever it is.......how do you know what it is on the pro?
> 
> this is an important thing to know isn't it, so not knowing at all is baffling?


 It doesn't have one. It would be a useful addition but isn't essential. How the shot runs, timing, weigh and taste will tell you what you need to know.


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> It doesn't have one. It would be a useful addition but isn't essential. How the shot runs, timing, weigh and taste will tell you what you need to know.


 So Tom have I got this right -

it needs to run from both sides of the funnel thing at the same time (one starting before the other means the puck is wrong), the timing needs to be about double the weight of the ground beans (I've read about 18 in 36 out)....

this is the basics to get it right? If you have the temp gauge it needs to be pointing north whatever that is number wise.

what machine do you have/do you have any advise on my quandary - barista express or pro?

Pro - more grind settings, easier to use as LED

express - Pressure gauge, seems like more people have them!?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Wisey said:


> So Tom have I got this right -
> 
> i*t needs to run from both sides of the funnel thing at the same time (one starting before the other means the puck is wrong*), the timing needs to be about double the weight of the ground beans (I've read about 18 in 36 out)....
> 
> ...


 Not necessarily, might mean your machine isn't level.

No, you don't need to stick to a specific ratio or time, but you need to have an idea of time.

For espresso on that machine you are probably looking at 20-50 seconds. 
Most people who complain about the pressure gauge being low below this range, so the time is telling you that.

Temp gauge? no temp gauge on these, although you can adjust the PID a little each way.

I have the pro but have had the BE for a short time.

The pro is effectively a newer version of the BE. I would get the pro, the grinder is much easier to dial in and the system can be heated very quickly provided you are ok flushing it 3-4 times. 
I can pull an optimal espresso on it within 5 mins.


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Not necessarily, might mean your machine isn't level.
> 
> No, you don't need to stick to a specific ratio or time, but you need to have an idea of time.
> 
> ...


 Mate so you're what I need - you've had both!

im completely new do you need to bear with me -

-flushing it??? 
- how long do you need to turn the pro on for until it's heated up? (I read people need to turn the espress on for 20mins or so for it to warm up?)
- I read all the bits like portafilter needs warning up, how do you do this?


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## Apr1985 (Apr 18, 2020)

Pro takes circa 3 seconds from button press till it is ready to dispense hot water. 
I then press the double shot button twice with no coffee in the portafilter to heat it up. Then ready to brew.

so my "flow" is

brush down the group and shower head. 
Insert portafilter 
Turn machine on
Press double button twice into cup to preheat that too
Grind coffee into PF
Hit double button

All in all about 4 mins from start to espresso.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Warm up for the BE and BP are different because the BE has a thermocoil and the BP a thermojet. 
I won't get into the specifics but if you turn the BE on it will slowly warm up, you can speed this a bit by pulling empty shots. 
But the BP will just sit there idle, staring at you, waiting for you to do something, not warming up at all. It only warms when water is sent through the system. 
From one perspective this is a real pain, as you can't just leave it on and come back to it when it's warmed up. 
It's also not going to passively heat up the group and portafilter so no point leaving that engaged to warm it.

I've not seen or tested anything formally but I find it basically takes around 3-4 or maybe 5 empty shots to warm the system. 
That's a lot, and less than ideal.

Especially if you are using bottled water. (Which if your alkalinity/Hardness is high you should be or filter you water)

Sages are very very prone to scale ESPECIALLY the BP thermojet as the pipes are very narrow.

However you can get around this a bit. 
1. pull an empty shot in the single pressurised basket. 
2. then pull a shot with the pressurised basket with the rubber blank hole less disc in ( This will backflush through the solenoid and heat the parts inside)

3. Then leave it engaged for 5 mins. The water trapped in the basket will heat the group.

Do all this with your PF in obviously with the basket you are going to use in a cup below.

Doing this I can get the machine fully warmed up and ready to roll in 5 mins.

I use a separate grinder so I grind into a cup and weigh so that's ready whilst this is happening.

Remember that making coffee is an enjoyable process, don't resent time to get it right. If you want something super fast and no effort drink instant


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Warm up for the BE and BP are different because the BE has a thermocoil and the BP a thermojet.
> I won't get into the specifics but if you turn the BE on it will slowly warm up, you can speed this a bit by pulling empty shots.
> But the BP will just sit there idle, staring at you, waiting for you to do something, not warming up at all. It only warms when water is sent through the system.
> From one perspective this is a real pain, as you can't just leave it on and come back to it when it's warmed up.
> ...


 Yeah that's great thanks, I've screen shotted your tip for when I get one

i do want this to be fun & trial/error - will never drink instant again!


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

Apr1985 said:


> Pro takes circa 3 seconds from button press till it is ready to dispense hot water.
> I then press the double shot button twice with no coffee in the portafilter to heat it up. Then ready to brew.
> 
> so my "flow" is
> ...


 Sorry what's the shower head?!


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## Apr1985 (Apr 18, 2020)

Wisey said:


> Sorry what's the shower head?!


 The bit where the water comes out of the machine into the portafilter. 
It is a metal disc with lots of hole in it like a shower.


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

Tunn300 said:


> The thing that swing the pro for me was the grinder is the same as the stand-alone Smart Grinder Pro I believe and a step up from the one that is on the Barista express.
> 
> As said above be prepared to give it a month or two to be producing really good shots with it and to do lots and lots of reading. Then potentially get in the rabbit warren of wanting to upgrade. Currently saving for a niche grinder.
> 
> I do love my pro and what I can get out of it though.


 Great thank you mate

I'm hoping the step upto a BE or probably a pro will be sufficient, if I've never had a coffee using a Baratza Grinder or a la marzocco machine how do I know my pro isn't the dogs just? Hhaha


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

Apr1985 said:


> The bit where the water comes out of the machine into the portafilter.
> It is a metal disc with lots of hole in it like a shower.


 Ah ok!

please bear with....I know jack all so on a steep learning curve!


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