# Bean to Cup ?



## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Hi all,

My De Longhi ESAM4200 Bean to Cup machine has served me well over the last 4 years. Although I wouldn't say the coffee was necessarily the best, it has proven reliable and extremely easy and convenient to use.

The other day, I switched it on as normal, waiting for it to go through the usual start-up rinse cycle and it made the most horrendous noise and attempted to lift itself up off the kitchen worktop and run away









For some obscure reason, I didn't seem to detect or understand the position of the infuser and it extended to the point of no return and then the cog underneath the machine extended way too far, resulting in the base of the machine bulging out, creating the lift and effect of wanting to escape !

Anyway, took it to a specialist who basically said it was uneconomical to repair so I am in the market for a new machine.

I have been searching around and the more I read, the more I get confused so thought i would ask for recommendations.

Firstly, I know that the collective wisdom and advice is that a separate grinder and espresso machine are superior to the bean to cup machines but I don't think you can beat an automatic bean to cup for speed and convenience.

Also, we don't normally drink espressos/cappucinos, we uses our machine for long coffees, americano style, i.e. set the machine to output a full cup of coffee.

We did occasionally make espresso/cappucino but no where near as much as long coffees.

In this scenario, i.e. long coffees, is a separate grinder/espresso machine still the way to go?

In researching, I came across some machines that are essentially filter coffee machines but will automatically grind the beans. Initially I thought this might fit my use perfectly but I believe they are essentially a filter machine and therefore do not compact the grounds or pass the water through at pressure. also, I don't fancy my coffee sitting waiting in a jug for me so I have currently discounted these although if anyone has any experience of them, it would be useful.

Finally, any recommendations on bean to cup machines?

Should I just buy another ESAM 4200 as they seem to be one of the most popular machines or should I try a different machine at around the same price ?

Are certain makes or models better in terms of quality of coffee and reliability ?

Thanks in advance for any advice


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

What is your budget ?

also, i suspect you are going to be given advice that a separate grinder and machine are the way to go, so would you consider second hand or do you want only new equipment


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> What is your budget ?
> 
> also, i suspect you are going to be given advice that a separate grinder and machine are the way to go, so would you consider second hand or do you want only new equipment


Budget wise, I don't want to spend more than £250-£300 although I am happy to wait a little if I can get a price drop on a more expensive machine that will put it within my budget.

I have posted a separate question on the merit of New Vs Used here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?31696-Would-you-buy-Used-or-Refurbished

As regards the merit of separate grinder/machine Vs B2C, I am swayed by the speed and convenience of a B2C, particularly as most of the coffee I drink are long coffees like an Americano


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## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

i know it's heresy on here to say such things but have you considered a Nespresso or similar?

for that budget you'd struggle to get a decent grinder and machine that can do regular milkies - my setup cost about £200 but that includes a classic, which can do milk, but it isn't its strong point


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

GrahamS said:


> i know it's heresy on here to say such things but have you considered a Nespresso or similar?
> 
> for that budget you'd struggle to get a decent grinder and machine that can do regular milkies - my setup cost about £200 but that includes a classic, which can do milk, but it isn't its strong point


Well my now deceased B2C can be purchased for around £250-£300, which is one option. There are also a few other budget B2C machines in that price range.

No idea about a decent espresso/grinder package though.

In the 4 years I had the De Longhi B2C, I must have only used the frother a total of 40 times (like 10 times a year) so not really bothered if the frother is up to scratch or just abut adequate for the occasional use.

Main use is black (no milk, no sugar) long coffes that taste great !

I have thought about capsule machines, and tried a few, but the cost of the capsules feels a little prohibitive - I will typically make approx. 6 cups of coffee a day.


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## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

long coffee? thought about a drip? chuck in coffee, press button, get a jug of coffee


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Aeropress....


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

GrahamS said:


> long coffee? thought about a drip? chuck in coffee, press button, get a jug of coffee


Drip ? Is that a filter coffee machine ?


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

Budget option 1:

hario hand grinder - £30

aeropress - £25

budget option 2:

wilfa electric grinder - £95

aeropress - £25

So for £125 you can have a machine grinder which seems very good (reported by those that have one) and an aeropress to make a 'probably' better cup than the b2c. Trust me it does. I had a magnifica for 3 years and loved it. But this will be better. Even cheaper is the hario hand grinder. It's a little work yea, but only a very little


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

James811 said:


> Budget option 1:
> 
> hario hand grinder - £30
> 
> ...


Thanks. It seems that a good coffee grinder can be more important than the actual machine, speaking of which, maybe you don't even need a machine looking at the aeropress !

I think I may go for a good coffee grinder and then a good filter/drip machine - mainly for convenience and the wife.

This then leaves the door open for me to maybe pick up an aeropress to try out with maybe a Gaggia classic later for my own espresso fix.

Anyone know what the sweet spot is in terms of price vs quality for a grinder ?


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

GrahamS said:


> long coffee? thought about a drip? chuck in coffee, press button, get a jug of coffee


Graham, excellent suggestion.

To be honest I never thought about a dripper before as my memory of them was always terrible hence why I went for a B2C a few years back.

Thinking about it, if a dripper can produce full bodied, flavoursome coffee then that may be better than espresso for me, given we tend to drink long coffees like Americano.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

As I've said before, get an Aeropress. £25 and using a fine grind, almost espresso, you can bang out a mug full of good black coffee in minutes - strength to suit.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

MrShades said:


> As I've said before, get an Aeropress. £25 and using a fine grind, almost espresso, you can bang out a mug full of good black coffee in minutes - strength to suit.


Thanks, I may get an Aeropress as well for my own use but probably not practical for making 2-3 mugs at a time. The convenience of a machine would be better


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

Moka pot?


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

To be honest, I would prefer something convenient for use in the mornings whilst the wife and I get ready.

The B2C machine was great for that and although a dripper will be a smidgen more time consuming, it should be fine.

For weekends or evenings when I have more time, I will likely try out the Aeropress (and maybe a Moka pot to experment with)


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

Moka pot is great - easy peasy and makes great coffee - all for under £25

But point taken - you can't leave it and go off and do something else....but why would you want to ???;....watching the coffee come out is part of the fun....


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Slightly changed direction. I foolishly thought that a filter/drop would produce a good Americano style coffee but how wrong I have been.

I will need to get a new espresso machine but in the meantime I would like a stop gap and looking at an Aeropress or Moka Pot.

Out of the two, which will produce the most 'espresso machine style' coffee?

Also, the Aeropress is made by Aerobie but there are many makes of Moka pot.

Are all Moka pots the same or are there specific makes recommended here ?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Why were you wrong? Did you buy a cheap and nasty filter machine?


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Not quite....

I bought a Melitta Aroma Signature Deluxe which is a successor to the US Bonavita design. It is meant to be quite good but it just didn't have that espresso type makeup I have been used to from my old B2C machine.

I wouldn't say it made a bad cup of coffee, definitely better than other filtered coffees I have tasted, bt I thought by using a high end machine it would somehow be closer to an espresso tast.

Probably just my naivety


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

Spy said:


> Slightly changed direction. I foolishly thought that a filter/drop would produce a good Americano style coffee but how wrong I have been.
> 
> I will need to get a new espresso machine but in the meantime I would like a stop gap and looking at an Aeropress or Moka Pot.
> 
> ...


i have always uses the Bialetti Moka Express, mostly 3 cup but occasionally the 1 and 6 cups.

Have used random others in hostels etc and sometimes they work as well and other times not!

Have never found a meaningful comparison so just stick with what worka for me


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