# Does Heston use a Sage DB?



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

The wife and I went to The Fat Duck for the full 14 course crazy experience yesterday, and I had to try the coffee.

A choice of two blends, will find the description of the one that I went for - which was recommended as a double ristretto (when I asked for a double espresso). Looked ok and tasted pretty good. Good crema and mouthfeel and I'd be very surprised if it came from a Nespresso (as has been suggested), and I'd guess that they're running a DB if not an Oracle (or two - as they have a choice of two blends) these days.

What do you think...???



















Oh, and priced at £4.95


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

how was the food?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Bonkers... When you order a G&T aperitif and a guy turns up with a vat of liquid nitrogen you know it'll be different.

Snail porridge, boiled eggs that are a dessert, edible gold leaf... it's more akin to a West End show than a wholesome meal. An experience to be remembered though.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Wow!! Would love to take the mrs burns...

My guess is they are running a commercial machine rather than the sage home espresso machines... May be wrong tho...


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

It's just down the road from me but I've never mustered up the courage for snail porridge and I'm scared of the bill!

I think he'd almost have to use a DB over a Nespresso machine given the endorsement. Although really he ought to be using some kind of Bessemer furnace with a fractionating column and an angle grinder with a coffee cutting wheel&#8230;


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Let's hope his doesn't fail like the ones on here, four so far!!!


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Let's hope his doesn't fail like the ones on here, four so far!!!


That many, wow!

I really doubt he uses the Sage DB in the restaurant, it might be a good machine but it's not exactly designed for commercial use.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> That many, wow!
> 
> I really doubt he uses the Sage DB in the restaurant, it might be a good machine but it's not exactly designed for commercial use.


I doubt very much he would recognise a Sage DB if it landed in his lap....

He is paid (quite a lot) for his name to appear on stuff.... Not stuff that is necessarily

a) Any good or

b) Anything he knows anything about

If they paid him enough he would have one in his restaurant, and have various pictures etc of it "in" his kitchen/restaurant....

The target of this advertising isn't proper coffee aficionados but people errrm how can I put this - people who are gullible - who think that stuff "must be good" because it has his name on it (or other celebrity names - it's not just Heston).

I am not saying that the Sage isn't good... it might well be... But that has nothing to do with Heston I doubt if he knows much about what makes good or bad coffee...

I am not sure he knows what makes good or bad cooking tbh - although he certainly knows what makes good theatre!!!

and lest you think I don't like him - I have tried to book tables at his place a few times but so far unsuccessfully (mainly because I think about it and then can't get a table "exactly" when it suits me and I don't want to go "enough" to work round when I could get a booking.... ie If/when I go - it will be for a reason.. but going won't be the reason!)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Defining if your an aficionado ( whatever that is ) by what brand or type of machine you own ( be it a sage or a anything else ) is a little bit excluding for my tastes.

I'm Ve had some very good coffee made by very knowledgable people on a range of different machines

Sorry .


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Let's hope his doesn't fail like the ones on here, four so far!!!


Four dual boilers?? Dam, was eyeing up a db for our new house next year :-( may look for something else now


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## r.bartlett (Jun 22, 2014)

Drewster said:


> I doubt very much he would recognise a Sage DB if it landed in his lap....
> 
> He is paid (quite a lot) for his name to appear on stuff.... Not stuff that is necessarily
> 
> ...


 Curious to know what makes you such an expert above him owning at one time the top restaurant in the world who has spent 20+ years studying food on a micro biological level assisted by some of the top food scientists in the world against what you can bring to the table ?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Defining if your an aficionado ( whatever that is ) by what brand or type of machine you own ( be it a sage or a anything else ) is a little bit excluding for my tastes.
> 
> I'm Ve had some very good coffee made by very knowledgable people on a range of different machines
> 
> Sorry .


No you missed my point.....

If you know coffee/your machine etc you can probably get really good coffee with very cheap/simple equipment....

If you know what you are doing you might even enjoy the challenge of making really good coffee with very cheap/simple equipment...

I wasn't commenting on wether a Sage (or another machine) is a "good" machine....

I was commenting on the "Heston" bit.. and the reasoning/rationale for it....

Sage aren't paying for Heston's name in order to convince people with an interest or understanding of coffee and its intricacies to buy the machine...

Those people will research the various machines and buy one that they think will do the job they require (and that might be the Sage)...

Sage pay Heston for his name in an attempt to "convince" people that DON'T have a deep interest or understanding of coffee that they will/can/may get really good coffee by buying it.... ie It is a magic bullet!

James Martin (who is a decent cook) has his name all over many many different types of knife.... he can't possibly either use them all or think each one of them is the "dogs danglies" but makers of those knives think his name will convince enough people (that don't really know or want to know that much about knives) to buy them - to justify paying for his name...

He also sticks his name on a "Burr Grinder"..... that is actually a blade "grinder"...... and cost about 15 quid......

If anyone buys something *because* it has a celebrity endorsement they are either gullible or just a fashion victim.....

If an aficionado (however thats defined) buys something with a celebrity endorsement I would expect it to be because they think it does the job well (possibly *despite* the celebrity endorsement)


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

r.bartlett said:


> Curious to know what makes you such an expert above him owning at one time the top restaurant in the world who has spent 20+ years studying food on a micro biological level assisted by some of the top food scientists in the world against what you can bring to the table ?


I never claimed to be an "expert" and certainly not "above" him..... but to be frank wtf is "food on a micro biological level"...

Is that like chopping it up really, really small?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Drewster said:


> I never claimed to be an "expert" and certainly not "above" him..... but to be frank wtf is "food on a micro biological level"...
> 
> Is that like chopping it up really, really small?


Oh and is that "micro biological level" similar to the sort of level where food poisoning occurs as I know he has some experience with that........


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Wouldn't surprise me if they had 2 on the premises for 15-20 drinks per day.

They have VST refractometers too ; )


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Anyway matt perger is the only celeb endorsement worth bothering with


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

I had a set of jim bowen endorsed darts..


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Burnzy said:


> I had a set of jim bowen endorsed darts..


Did they have a photo of his face on the flights?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Drewster said:


> Oh and is that "micro biological level" similar to the sort of level where food poisoning occurs as I know he has some experience with that........


Whilst that expression is a bit fluffy, there is nothing wrong with taking flavour and taste down to its constituent parts to learn how things interact. We do this with coffee as much as we can, and understanding how something works is integral to becoming an expert in just about any field.

The sensationalist fluff of "studying at a micro-biological" level may be a bit OTT, but studying food is a perfectly constructive thing to do.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Anyway matt perger is the only celeb endorsement worth bothering with


-_-


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## r.bartlett (Jun 22, 2014)

Drewster said:


> I never claimed to be an "expert" and certainly not "above" him..... but to be frank wtf is "food on a micro biological level"...
> 
> Is that like chopping it up really, really small?


well if you ever manage to get your people to talk to his people and book a table -come back and we can compare notes.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Well well well...

I've now had a good look at the photograph of the "coffee menu" that I took on Saturday, and googled some of the narrative.

They are VERY VERY obviously Nespresso descriptions - almost word perfect from the Nespresso capsule descriptions.

Still - the ristretto that I had was pretty good, tasty and had good crema and mouthfeel.... so I guess they have a well looked after Nespresso machine!

Reinforces my thoughts that, if you just want a cup of drinkable coffee with minimal fuss and almost zero mess, and don't have any deep desire to understand the process and become a Barista - you should just buy a Nespresso machine.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MrShades said:


> Well well well...
> 
> I've now had a good look at the photograph of the "coffee menu" that I took on Saturday, and googled some of the narrative.
> 
> ...


The official Nespresso caps I have used at my mums produce a surprising amount of crema and a decent shot, before a manual setup they really are a very good option. Hard to ever recommend a B2C for convenience with Nespresso about really.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Dylan said:


> Whilst that expression is a bit fluffy, there is nothing wrong with taking flavour and taste down to its constituent parts to learn how things interact. We do this with coffee as much as we can, and understanding how something works is integral to becoming an expert in just about any field.
> 
> The sensationalist fluff of "studying at a micro-biological" level may be a bit OTT, but studying food is a perfectly constructive thing to do.


I have tried to explain - I have no issue at all with Heston's "fluff".....

He makes food a "multi-sensual-experience".... as I mentioned above he is very good at theatre... and that really is not a bad thing..

He doesn't chuck a couple of prawns on a plate with a slice of lettuce - He serves them in scallop shells with a personal I-pod hidden in a conch shell subliminally playing sounds of the sea-shore and has miniature fans gently wafting the essence of fresh kelp etc etc....

All of which makes the occasion so much more than a "prawn cocktail".....

My issue is/was about "celebrity endorsement" (in the case of Sage the "endorsement" is by Heston) not being aimed at the members of this forum....

I doubt many on the forum would buy the Sage *because* it is/was "endorsed" be Heston.

I would imagine (and some reading of previous threads would confirm anecdotally) that Heston's "endorsement" of the Sage would actually put off many forum members rather than encourage them to buy it (because Heston has given no indication that he knows Jack about coffee).

I would think that most forum members who have bought (or are thinking of buying) a Sage do it despite Heston.....

I feel I have repeated myself enough now but you know how it is - "I cannot rest! Something on the Internet is WRONG!"


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## d_lash (Aug 30, 2014)

There's a nespresso machine at one of the places I work and while it clearly is better than a lot of the alternatives in that sort of environment it's a long long way from a well made espresso.

If I was eating at The Fat Duck (still plan to one day, assuming it comes back from Australia in one piece... sniff) I'd want a heck of a lot better, given the extraordinary attention to detail that goes into the food, the skill level of the chefs / staff and the general expectation of gastronomic perfection. It surprises me.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Burnzy said:


> I had a set of jim bowen endorsed darts..


I think that's a load of Bull . 

Sorry couldn't resist!

I thought about a Sage DB but like Drewster said, it was not because of Heston Services. In fact, that put me off a bit because I was worried that people would think I was a celeb chef fan. The main reason I considered it was because up until we started hearing of the problems, it sounded like a good machine. Also I could have got a trade deal which would have made it the same price as it would probably sell for if it didn't have the Heston badge. I don't go a bundle on celebs full stop, let alone pay extra for a name of someone who is famous for something else.

I'm surprised that he would offer a Nespresso to people who are dining at the fat duck. Amongst those will be some who have gone there for the celeb thing (if Heston isn't enough, er, Rolf Harris lives nearby!) but surely he would realise that a fair proportion would be knowledgable and adventurous foodies who are equally discerning in what they drink.

If I ever get the chance to go there I'll tell you if the coffee is Nespresso. I can taste one a mile off, having tried them all at work.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Coffee is still quite neglected in high end restaurants. The coffee I got in Le Gavroche was barking - classic 'double espresso' which filled about a 5oz mug. Noma seem to be trying to change this.


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## d_lash (Aug 30, 2014)

Maybe when the FD gets to Melbourne the locals will let him know what they think about pod coffee...


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## monkey66 (Aug 8, 2014)

Important not to confuse the machine debate with the endorsement. We all know the machine was available long before HB put his name on it in the UK.

I ate at the Fat Duck a few years ago, great experience of us but not one you need to repeat.

NB - thinking back to when I read HB's Fat Duck book I am pretty sure he says he doesn't get coffee, and does not really enjoy it. Perhaps he has become enlightened in the last few years?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I thought Mr Shades had established that it was Nespresso?


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

£4.95 for a Nespresso !? That is some mark up !!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

How much would you pay for a hand crafted coffee, in a restaurant, if mark up was expected to be in line with food?

BTW, it was 2 Nespresso's, wasn't it?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

monkey66 said:


> Perhaps he has become enlightened in the last few years?


Apparently it was a shot from a Breville/Sage that turned him (that's what the person demoing the DB when it came out told me)


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Olliehulla said:


> £4.95 for a Nespresso !? That is some mark up !!


In a 3 start michelin restaurant that is easily a bargain.

Mr Shades, I am very much interested if you are willing to describe more on the experience and also on the food in general. I would love to visit it next time I am in the UK.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Well, when we were there on Sat there was someone else there blogging and photographing the full experience. I'll find the link to their blog which describes and shows it all very well.

Don't think of it as a meal - as it's more of an experience, like a west end show or other memorable event that lasts 4hrs.

Would I go back? Yes, if there was a different menu but not if there wasn't. Again, would I watch a show again - prob not - but id watch the same cast in the same theatre perform s different show!

Here you go... It may spoil the magic for some so don't read or look unless you really want to: http://www.therunnerbeans.com/2014/11/lunch-fat-duck.html


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

MrShades said:


> Well, when we were there on Sat there was someone else there blogging and photographing the full experience. I'll find the link to their blog which describes and shows it all very well.
> 
> Don't think of it as a meal - as it's more of an experience, like a west end show or other memorable event that lasts 4hrs.
> 
> ...


Compared to another 3 star? Gordon Ramsay or a classic like Alain Ducasse?


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

He was on an advert during the Walking Dead this week, promoting them. Not seen the advert on terrestrial TV


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

charris said:


> In a 3 start michelin restaurant that is easily a bargain


I disagree. Yes I understand the relativity of pricing given you're in a top end fine dinning establishment and yes you would expect to pay more for the dining experience where you are being served sublimely prepared food but then to be served a capsule espresso (if indeed it was a nespresso, jury still seems to be out on that one), seems lazy, at odds with the ethos of a 3 michelin star restaurant and is therefore, in my opinion, not a bargain.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Olliehulla said:


> I disagree. Yes I understand the relativity of pricing given you're in a top end fine dinning establishment and yes you would expect to pay more for the dining experience where you are being served sublimely prepared food but then to be served a capsule espresso (if indeed it was a nespresso, jury still seems to be out on that one), seems lazy, at odds with the ethos of a 3 michelin star restaurant and is therefore, in my opinion, not a bargain.


It is like going to stay at a £1k per night hotel room and complaining that the coke can in the mini bar is expensive at £4 or the room service burger is expensive at £30.

Thinking more on this the most expensive coffee I have had was at the George V in Paris. €15 for a cappuccino. Rip off in any way imaginable, but can I really complain? it is an expensive place and the prices are in the menu.

First time I went to Ramsey at Hospital road 15 years ago they sat us in a small lounge area and asked us if we want an aperitif, a glass of champagne. Of course we went for it, it was charged £36 each glass in the bill. Same at Ducasse in Paris, aperitif glass of wine was €60 each. And I know wine is different to coffee but these are prices per glass.

I don't disagree with you at all with regards to the coffee but when you go to spend £200++ per head then everything starts becoming relative in a kind of strange way.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah but the point is, would Gordon Ramsay sell you a glass of Asti Spew-manti for £36 and tell you it was premier cru? I have no issue with the price part of this argument, it's the disparity between quality of food and quality of coffee served, when one could be forgiven for thinking that a top notch restaurant catering for connoisseurs might put in a bit more effort given the potential expectations of the guest. The expensive Coke in the grand-a-night hotel room is still Coke. It sure ain't gonna be Panda Pop.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Literally just seen an advert for the oracle on More4 fronted by Heston and if not a hand model poring the milk he has mastered some latte art as well ( I may be taking a cynical tone of voice...)

John


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I have come to the conclusion I don't care what machine Heston uses or even if he drinks coffee, I hope you all arrive at this point sometime soon. Life is too short ....


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm glad you've finally come to a conclusion.

The uncertainty has been making you a little grumpy of late


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nah that's the food poisoning and the lack of coffee ......I'm still grumpy


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I have come to the conclusion I don't care what machine Heston uses or even if he drinks coffee, I hope you all arrive at this point sometime soon. Life is too short ....


I stopped reading this thread ages ago coz I don't give a flying **** either.

(I'm just naturally grumpy so can't blame for poisoning or lack of coffee)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

MrShades said:


> The wife and I went to The Fat Duck for the full 14 course crazy experience yesterday, and I had to try the coffee.
> 
> A choice of two blends, will find the description of the one that I went for - which was recommended as a double ristretto (when I asked for a double espresso). Looked ok and tasted pretty good. Good crema and mouthfeel and I'd be very surprised if it came from a Nespresso (as has been suggested), and I'd guess that they're running a DB if not an Oracle (or two - as they have a choice of two blends) these days.
> 
> ...


£4.95 and they can't serve it in a proper espresso cup - one of my pet hates.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

I had the Heston rhubarb and apple crumble from Waitrose the other night, it tasted like it might have been made on a SageDB.... #dontbother


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> I had the Heston rhubarb and apple crumble from Waitrose the other night, it tasted like it might have been made on a SageDB.... #dontbother


Does he serve that at The Fat Duck too? I mean if it's got his name on it, he must right, like ...it's the law innit? Must have half the Lakeland catalogue in that place, what with timers, meat thermometers, kettles, blenders, mixers & toasters...









#whohasreallyeverdinedatthefatduckbecauseeveryonetalksaboutthecoffee #thethread'snotdead...thereitflinched


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> I had the Heston rhubarb and apple crumble from Waitrose the other night, it tasted like it might have been made on a SageDB.... #dontbother


The popcorn ice cream was terrible too.

Most of the stuff with his name on I've tried from waitrose has been ****, try and avoid it now.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I had a 'by Heston' Christmas Pud last year.

It broke.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Just to keep this going... Here's a photo of The Fat Duck coffee menu.

Compare it with similarly named Nespresso capsule descriptions and decide for yourself:


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nespresso for sure.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

MrShades said:


> Just to keep this going... Here's a photo of The Fat Duck coffee menu.
> 
> Compare it with similarly named Nespresso capsule descriptions and decide for yourself:


My fav is arpeggio, it's a winner everytime.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I came across the Sage espresso machines prior to stumbling onto these forums. Am quite a fan of Heston as far as celebrity chefs go. Most of his TV programmes are both entertaining and sometimes even a little enlightening imo. Watched all the available promotion videos including behind the scenes footage on the design etc of these machines. Sure it might be mainly for the cameras but Heston did 'appear' to get involved. Was tempted with the dual boiler model until I saw the £1,199 price which seemed a bit too much of a punt on a machine which may or may not be of the same quality as other available prosumer machines "not" endorsed by a top name celebrity chef. You do get a 'white glove service' thrown in though, lol!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Argggggggggggggggggggggh


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