# Aeropress giving smoky burnt/bitter taste



## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Yesterday I had a bag of coffee, which I know not to have any bitterness at all, very chocolatey, velvety smoothness. All of this comes through when using my machine, or when using the SwissGold Filter.

Used it in the Aeropress yesterday and I got very distinct smoky burnt bitter taste, really struggled to get any chocolate until it had really cooled down and even then it was just a hint of what the proper flavour was supposed to be.

Method;

Inverted

15g, Lido 3, Grind 5.5

500ml water, boiled, wait 2mins

30g bloom, swirl aeropress, 30seconds

200g water, 1.30

Plunge 30 seconds

Today I tried a different coffee, which I know is fresh, roasted 10th Sept, again has absolutely no inherent bitterness in it at all, and the machine gives me the taste notes i would expect. Tried it in the aeropress today and it gave me a similar burnt taste to yesterday but the burnt note wasn't as strong.

Today's method was exactly the same as yesterday except I changed the grind from 5.5 on the Lido 3 to a 6, so slightly larger grind size.

I would like to keep the 200g water (that's how much I want to have in my mug) and I want to keep the 1m30s brew time as I'm trying to streamline the whole process. Streamline meaning "quick", I use the aeropress at work.

- Do I change the grind size?

- Do I use more coffee?

- My water is about 94-95degC, do I use hotter water? Colder water?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

My water temperature is 87*C. Any hotter and I find it too burnt and bitter. This with Rave Moka Java.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

It's been awhile since i looked at the latest Aeropress instructions (they changed over time) but I recall they indicate no more than 90C, and my findings were in line with @lake_m that closer to 100C caused bitterness and burnt taste.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Interesting. So you guys would recommend keep everything else the same? Just cooler temperature water? Do you think I might need smaller grind size for cooler temperature? Or more coffee?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Not sure how your grind size compares but I use 1.10 on the Feld.

Inverted method

17g dose

200g water

No bloom

12 stirs.

3 minute steep

30 second press

top up with hot water to taste.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

The 6 on the Lido 3 is like fine sand. I have no idea what 1.10 on the Feld produces.

I don't want too change too many variables in the one go though.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

The 6 on the Lido 3 is like fine sand. I have no idea what 1.10 on the Feld produces.

I don't want too change too many variables in the one go though.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

It's kind of medium. Not too fine.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> The 6 on the Lido 3 is like fine sand. I have no idea what 1.10 on the Feld produces.
> 
> I don't want too change too many variables in the one go though.


1+10 is fine/finest end of manual brew grind.

Keep going finer on the Lido until you get bitterness/sandy texture from undissolved solids, you might find the burrs rub before you get too fine to brew with.

Cooler water will give low extractions, I thought you were trying to avoid this?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Cooler water will give low extractions, I thought you were trying to avoid this?


I have no idea what I'm trying to avoid, honest. All I know is I'm trying to avoid this taste that I'm getting, which is not what the coffee itself should be giving me. I'm trying to figure out, with the help from this forum, what it is that I'm doing wrong.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

You'll get there eventually. Just experiment and go with your taste buds.

I tried every which way, every temperature, and every grind setting over the last year or so. This is my personal favorite.

(It was a competition winning recipe I found on Youtube, but I tweaked it to suit my own taste.)


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Sounds like You've over extracted. You can remedy this by using more coffee / less water / grind coarser / cooler water


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

fluffles said:


> Sounds like You've over extracted. You can remedy this by using more coffee / less water / grind coarser / cooler water


Erm, @MWJB ?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

The rubber stopper on the plunger, seems to have a funny "burnt rubber" smell, could this be a cause? Or a contribution? How do I get rid of this?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> The rubber stopper on the plunger, seems to have a funny "burnt rubber" smell, could this be a cause? Or a contribution? How do I get rid of this?


I honestly don't think so. Give the cooler water a go - what have you got to lose except 17g of wasted coffee.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> The rubber stopper on the plunger, seems to have a funny "burnt rubber" smell, could this be a cause? Or a contribution? How do I get rid of this?


It could. Could try a non inverted brew so it isn't in contact with the brew


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Quick update.

I only want to change 1 variable at a time, so at the moment I just tried a different grind size.

This morning the Lido 3 was at grind 6, now I did it at grind 7. Same coffee, and everything else completely the same.

Result: Little to no change in taste.

Will change 1 more variable next time.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> Erm, @MWJB ?


Nope.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

fluffles said:


> It could. Could try a non inverted brew so it isn't in contact with the brew


I think Aeropress also say to not overly compress the plunger, as that last little bit of liquid that would be forced out by the plunger touching then compressing the grinds, does give increased bitterness.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Nope.


Your reply made me laugh, I actually chuckled.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

For fun, you can also try this method:

Assemble the Aeropress, invert it. Use 15g/230g as before and pour all water at once and give it a good stir. Put the lid with a wet paper filter on (so that it sticks) and leave like that for 15 minutes. After 15 Min, remove the top and skim the foam on the top with a spoon and discard. Invert and plunge gently, not pressing but just using body weight. Stop right before you'd hear the hissing sound.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Very interesting. I'll try that when I get home. Thank you. I'll keep all other variables constant.

This will just be an experiment for me though, as there is no way I can make coffee like they at work, which is what I'm using the AeroPress for


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

A winning recipe, 94degC ?









This is quite close to what I am doing?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Thoughts?

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?46280-Stale-beans&p=624536#post624536


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> Thoughts?
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?46280-Stale-beans&p=624536#post624536


Not easy to relate your Aeropress (immersion, always on the low side) to a percolation machine (could be under, could be over, not enough info to say).

But is it is the same fault, it could be how you have stored them, equally it could be normal change as the beans degass. If the machine settings are the same throughout & one bean comes out under/over, so will the other bean.

In percolation, the beans can become easier to extract as they degass, so can you set the machine to grind coarser & see how that changes taste?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Just a thought, why aren't you just storing the beans in the sealed/clipped bags they come in?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MWJB said:


> In percolation, the beans can become easier to extract as they degass, so can you set the machine to grind coarser & see how that changes taste?


So to try this theory out, what do I change?

1. The grind settings? (go coarser? the machine has 5 grind settings, go 1 coarser?)

OR

2. Change the strength of my drink?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Just a thought, why aren't you just storing the beans in the sealed/clipped bags they come in?


At the moment I am trying the "Bean to Cup Taster Pack" from Redber, they come in tiny 125g bag, and when opened there is no way to reseal them.

But also when I first got into coffee I saw the "coffee airtight with degassing valves" containers on Amazon and thought it was a good idea. Isn't that the case?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Go 1 or 2 coarser.

I don't know how the change strength function works?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> At the moment I am trying the "Bean to Cup Taster Pack" from Redber, they come in tiny 125g bag, and when opened there is no way to reseal them.
> 
> But also when I first got into coffee I saw the "coffee airtight with degassing valves" containers on Amazon and thought it was a good idea. Isn't that the case?


OK, so you have to decant to something else, not had problems with using original bags where I can.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

I have no idea myself how the "change strength" actually works. There is an option to make a stronger strength cup, on a scale of 1 to 5 again (1 being very weak and 5 being very strong).


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MWJB said:


> not had problems with using original bags where I can.


That's good to know, saves me some hassle, thanks.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> I have no idea myself how the "change strength" actually works. There is an option to make a stronger strength cup, on a scale of 1 to 5 again (1 being very weak and 5 being very strong).


If it is like the Delonghi, then it just grinds more beans (timer).


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Just a thought, why aren't you just storing the beans in the sealed/clipped bags they come in?


Come to think of it, I bought 3 (or 4 was it?) 250g different coffees from Bean Smitten, those bags weren't resealable.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

lake_m said:


> If it is like the Delonghi, then it just grinds more beans (timer).


Thank you. So essentially I need to grind coarser to try out MWJB's theory.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> Come to think of it, I bought 3 (or 4 was it?) 250g different coffees from Bean Smitten, those bags weren't resealable.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Barista-Co-Stainless-Electric-Multi-Colour/dp/B015T5EYPW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1537519075&sr=8-1&keywords=barista+co+clips


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

For anyone interested, I've been experimenting with the AeroPress and a bag of coffee that I know well. I've pretty much used nearly the whole 454g bag on just changing single variables at a time and trying to see what produces a coffee closest to the taste that I know this coffee gives (or at least how I enjoy it).

The variables that I kept constant;

- tried normal method, but not strong enough for me so barr that single time I went for the inverted method every time

- always 15g of coffee. I'm trying to get close to final brewed coffee of 200g, and that I find is a good ratio of water to coffee for me

- so obviously I'm using 200g of brewed coffee (total of 215-220 water in to give me 200ish coffee out)

- using water as soon as it boils from the kettle

- using the paper filter

The only 3 variables I changed;

- Grind size

- brewing time

- bloom time

After trying a whole combination of stuff, from Lido grind size between 4.5 up to 8.5 (only using half and full notches, ie 4.5, 5.0, 5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, 7.5, 8.0 and 8.5), bloom period between "no bloom" up to 40 seconds bloom, and brew time between no brew time (plunge as soon as 220g water in) and up to 2 minutes.

Final recipe that I am happy with, for the timebeing (obviously cup/mug preheated and paper filter pre-rinsed), grind size of 6.0, 1 minute brew time with a short bloom period. This seems to produce a coffee that seems to be the "fullest" tasting coffee without any bitter, still being fairly smooth.

Thanks for your help guys.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

lake_m said:


> Not sure how your grind size compares but I use 1.10 on the Feld.
> 
> Inverted method
> 
> ...


Do you find this recipe works exactly for every coffee? Or do you have to adjust according to different roasts (lighter or darker)? What temperature water do you use?

The recipe that I found worked well for one coffee (medium-dark roast), didn't work well for 2 other coffees (medium roast). Can it be quality difference? Or roast?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> Do you find this recipe works exactly for every coffee? Or do you have to adjust according to different roasts (lighter or darker)? What temperature water do you use?
> 
> The recipe that I found worked well for one coffee (medium-dark roast), didn't work well for 2 other coffees (medium roast). Can it be quality difference? Or roast?


Water temperature for this recipe is 87*c

It works well for medium/dark roasts. (Rave espresso blends mostly)

I don't change beans that often but generally I will only need to adjust the grind by a notch or two either way, especially if I think it's verging on bitter.


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