# Calling Sage Bottomless Owners.. Assistance please.



## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of my untwisting PF saga. Sage sent me a new silicone seal but it has alleviated the problem. Machine has been fully cleaned and it still happens.

My elimination has concluded that this only happens with the bottomless. it's the only common factor. Doesn't happen with standard PF no matter the basket used, but happens on bottomless whichever basket.

The lugs on the two PF are different and I'm trying to determine if this is normal of the bottomless. They are more slanted/tapered. Please show me yours!

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/4892/LpnW8h.jpg


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The lugs are the problem, this problem has been found with other makes of machine. The bottomless portafilters are "generic" rather than being the same as the original, probably from a different manufacturer. Some members have "filed" the lugs to make a better fit but it does not look very good and it is difficult to get the precise angle.

My only suggestion if you cannot obtain the correct one is to buy a standard one and have it bored out, shows a brass ring at bottom inside but at least it fits.

I did this with my Verona to have a naked that fitted .


----------



## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

Well if it really is that I'll have to keep hassling them until they sort it. It's getting pretty annoying now.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I did a little test with mine and a blank basket.

1. dry portafilter and wiped dry gasket - no portafilter movement.

2. dry portafilter but wet gasket - portafilter moved about 1/2cm over 45 seconds at full pressure.

My gasket is the original and has seen 1000's of shots pulled. I would imagine a new gasket would be grippier and there would be no movement.

Given my results have a go yourself . wet/dry


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

My thoughts Gary are why can they not use the same "manufacturer" to make both portafilters, same mould /casting. It should not be up to the customer to have to overcome their shortcomings / poor quality control. Or is it just down to bottom line ??


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

El carajillo said:


> My thoughts Gary are why can they not use the same "manufacturer" to make both portafilters, same mould /casting. It should not be up to the customer to have to overcome their shortcomings / poor quality control. Or is it just down to bottom line ??


It is a bit of a strange one. You would have thought they would have had economies of scale just altering an existing design with existing manufacturer.

I wonder if they have taken the naked portafilter from the earlier dual boilers and just cut down where it needs the additional clearance to clear the group on the 920 version.

I do know that they are low on stock of the naked portafilters, again thinking aloud, wonder if this might have something to do with this issue?

I'll ask the question and see what sort of reply I get.


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Sean, do you have access to any non-Sage baskets? I ask because I just started using a La Marzocco precision basket. Using that basket my spouted portafilter fits far tighter into the grouphead. I got out my vernier calipers to see what the difference was. The Sage double basket's lip height was 2.00mm. The height of the lip of the LM basket was 2.57mm. Not a great deal of difference but enough so that when completely locked in, my portafilter handle is at a 3 o'clock. With the Sage original basket the portafilter handle will point at almost 2 o'clock when completely locked in.

Agreed its ideal to work around an inadequacy of the Sage naked portafilter but its not a huge expense to sort the issue.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

ridland said:


> Sean, do you have access to any non-Sage baskets? I ask because I just started using a La Marzocco precision basket. Using that basket my spouted portafilter fits far tighter into the grouphead. I got out my vernier calipers to see what the difference was. The Sage double basket's lip height was 2.00mm. The height of the lip of the LM basket was 2.57mm. Not a great deal of difference but enough so that when completely locked in, my portafilter handle is at a 3 o'clock. With the Sage original basket the portafilter handle will point at almost 2 o'clock when completely locked in.
> 
> Agreed its ideal to work around an inadequacy of the Sage naked portafilter but its not a huge expense to sort the issue.


Good point, my tests were using VST basket or blank baskets.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

El carajillo said:


> My thoughts Gary are why can they not use the same "manufacturer" to make both portafilters, same mould /casting. It should not be up to the customer to have to overcome their shortcomings / poor quality control. Or is it just down to bottom line ??


Agreed products should work off the bat .I think the nakeds were as a result of market demand, an afterthought maybe?

A new basket , such as a VST isn't a huge expense, and offers better coffee over the stock basket IMO. Although to be fair the stock baskets are pretty good in the grand scheme


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've often mistaken the stock basket that came with my sage for a 17g LM.

I did try the wet and dry test and the wet test did unwind slightly too. Although it might have been down to a residue of grinds left as I hadn't wiped the group.


----------



## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

Sorry for delay.

I have noticed it's much easier to undo itself when wet.

I have used a non Sage basket and it's still the same. I might look into getting a VST or similar and see if there's any change. Although, I really don't think it should be happening on a £1200 machine and £70 PF, so I'll bounce back to Sage and see what they say.

It's getting pretty annoying now to be honest.


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Sean, I would point out the difference in lug shape / angle / design. Also point out that without full contact along the length of the lug it reduces the friction and the ability of the P/F to "lock" in place. Hope you get some satisfaction.


----------



## wisey84 (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi,

Claire here from Sage, think we have been chatting sean? hoping you're the same person? I havent come across this before but if the seal isnt working i'm baffled! I have sent you an email (could you reply to that as I may not get back on here and dont want to miss you.) I want to get to the bottom of this and may need to ask some questions.

Rest assured I will get this rectified...

cheers


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Once I brought this to Claire's attention she was very keen to get to the bottom of this. I'm not saying it will get resolved but she does seem eager to help. She has been very helpful to me sorting out something which was completely my fault (nicked and scratched steam tip in an attack of muppetry at its finest) so hopefully she will be able to help you as well.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

wisey84 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Claire here from Sage, think we have been chatting sean? hoping you're the same person? I havent come across this before but if the seal isnt working i'm baffled! I have sent you an email (could you reply to that as I may not get back on here and dont want to miss you.) I want to get to the bottom of this and may need to ask some questions.
> 
> ...


Hi Claire

I hope you realise that you have just volunteered as our go-to person for all things Sage from now on.


----------



## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

wisey84 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Claire here from Sage, think we have been chatting sean? hoping you're the same person? I havent come across this before but if the seal isnt working i'm baffled! I have sent you an email (could you reply to that as I may not get back on here and dont want to miss you.) I want to get to the bottom of this and may need to ask some questions.
> 
> ...


Hi Claire, It is I, yes. I shall respond to your email now.



NickdeBug said:


> Hi Claire
> 
> I hope you realise that you have just volunteered as our go-to person for all things Sage from now on.


I don't think she'll want to stick around with this bunch! Although it would be a great way of engaging...


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

These look just like mine - I'm using vsts and I've lowered my pressure though so that might be hiding an issue!


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've noticed happen more with the stock basket. I generally use VST. Why it makes a difference God only knows.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

robashton said:


> These look just like mine - I'm using vsts and I've lowered my pressure though so that might be hiding an issue!


Forget bottomless on the EK


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Curious. Why would that be?



jeebsy said:


> Forget bottomless on the EK


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Because it looks like this normally on a pump machine











Think xpenno and boots have had some nice ones on the dalek though


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

Speak for yourself jeebsy - I'm getting perfect pours with the EK









certainly nothing that spurts like that!


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

This is just 18g of old undrinkable coffee from on top of my fridge, the dial was left at 1.5 because that's what I've been pushing my other has bean through at. As a consequence it came through far too slow but you can see how tidy it is! (usually get the caturra through at 42g in 30s)

as you know I was struggling until I zeroed the burrs...


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

robashton said:


>


God bless the new burrs, what pump pressure is that?


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

It's about 8.5 - I had dropped down to 7 before I zeroed the burrs, I was aiming for 9 last time I opened it up and adjusted the OPV (about 4 hrs ago) but didn't quite make it, will be going back to 9 tomorrow hopefully!


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That was fresh out the box, this was a recent one:






Still a bit of a car crash. If your shots are tasting good, just don't watch the horror


----------



## wisey84 (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi all! Totally happy to be your go to! Between me and dave we're always happy to help with anything coffee! May be easier to get me in the office on 0203 764 1722 as I won't always get the chance to jump on here and would hate to miss anything!...

I've looked into the portafilter query that Sean raised and we now have a new revised naked filter, it is an amendment to the tab as a couple of you mentioned. I haven't come across this before but I will a new one out to Sean Asap and if anyone else has an issue give me a shout!

Thanks for your feedback on this it's been really useful : )


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

wisey84 said:


> I've looked into the portafilter query that Sean raised and we now have a new revised naked filter, it is an amendment to the tab as a couple of you mentioned. I haven't come across this before but I will a new one out to Sean Asap and if anyone else has an issue give me a shout!


Neaato. I've not had any issues yet but that might just be because my machine is newish and it hasn't worn in yet or my machine is new and I already have the improved portafilter, I'll be sure to yell if this changes









Jeebsy






A more standard pour - it's a very fresh coffee so you'd expect it to be a bit wild - having my DB perfectly level helps of course. (this is at 2.3 on the dial as it's a darker coffee from Papercup)


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

I'm glad that Sage (via Claire) has stepped up and helped out. Hopefully this will help.


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Watch Jeebsy vid right to the end and look at the "suggested" vids that it comes up with. Perhaps we should refer to them as bottomless as naked is coming up with some pretty choice recommendations


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's not about pretty pours with the EK, alright? (even though i'll now spend ages trying to get one). Gary said the new coffee burrs do give nicer pours.


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> It's not about pretty pours with the EK, alright? (even though i'll now spend ages trying to get one). Gary said the new coffee burrs do give nicer pours.


I completely agree, it's about what's in the mouth at the end of the shot.

And hopefully not all over the machine or outside of the cup


----------

