# February LSOL - Vagabond Roasters



## fluffles

Hi all,

We're finally ready to kick off a new round of LSOL. I'm told all subscribers have now paid, so we can get the ball rolling on this first coffee from Vagabond Roasters in North London. Not a roaster I have tried before but I have had some good feedback from others.

The rules are the same as always: all subscribers who have already paid will receive 1kg. Guests are welcome to sign up below and will receive 500g for £13.50 delivered to your door. The coffee should arrive in an unmarked bag so that we do not know anything about it. After 2 or 3 weeks worth of drinking and discussion, the identity of the coffee will be revealed.

Guests:

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

(Added @Mrboots2u and @fatboyslim as requested)


----------



## Syenitic

How many guest slots? if more than three, then :

Guests:

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic


----------



## MarkT

Thanks @fluffles not heard of that roaster before and looking forward to trying them. ☕☕☕


----------



## fluffles

Sorry, good point. Let's say 10 for now and see how we do.

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.


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## Split Shot

Count me in please!

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6.

7.

8.

9.

10


----------



## fatboyslim

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. lookseehear

7.

8.

9.

10


----------



## lookseehear

I'm in for this one

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7.

8.

9.

10


----------



## The Systemic Kid

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7. Systemic Kid

8.

9.

10


----------



## christos_geo

Me too!

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7. christos_geo

8.

9.

10


----------



## hchrishallam

I'll give this a go!

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7.Christos

8.hchrishallam

9.

10


----------



## fluffles

I've had a question about the guest price as it appears not to have increased by as much as the subscription price. It is a fair question so I thought I would address it here for transparency.

We've always set the guest price on an individual coffee basis (more expensive coffees will cost more than less expensive, as opposed to subscription prices which are fixed across the 3 months). I've managed to secure a very good deal on this coffee and as such it is less expensive than anticipated. I felt it would be disingenuous to charge guests an artificially higher rate. Subscribers are still saving £2/kg over the guest price and this is the minimum difference in price you will see - for future coffees I expect this difference to be greater.

If anyone has any concerns feel free to get in touch, but I would encourage everyone to evaluate at the end of the quarter.

Just to re-iterate though:

- Everyone saves significantly over the retail price

- Subscribers always pay less


----------



## DaveMak

Never tried light beans before so count me in.

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7.Christos

8.hchrishallam

9 davemak


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## Dayks

Looking forward to this, have been drinking the one off dsol type from Coffee compass and haven't really been enjoying it.


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## Missy

Thanks guys- you're doing a fab job! Really grateful that you are putting your time in.


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## jlarkin

Looks like the systemic kid got dropped off along the way:

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7. christos_geo

8. hchrishallam

9 davemak

10. The Systemic Kid

Reserve list?

11. jlarkin


----------



## The Systemic Kid

"Looks like the systemic kid got dropped off along the way":

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7. The Systemic Kid

8. christos_geo

9. hchrishallam

10 davemak

11.

Not anymore


----------



## jlarkin

Looks like I got dropped off along the way :-D

1. fluffles

2. MrBoots2u

3. fatboyslim

4. Syenitic

5. Split Shot

6. Lookseehear

7. The Systemic Kid

8. christos_geo

9. hchrishallam

10 davemak

Reserve list?

11. jlarkin


----------



## MSM

Well if there are additional guest slots (past the original 10) I would be interested.

01. fluffles

02. MrBoots2u

03. fatboyslim

04. Syenitic

05. Split Shot

06. Lookseehear

07. The Systemic Kid

08. christos_geo

09. hchrishallam

10. davemak

Reserve list?

11. jlarkin

12. MSM


----------



## fluffles

The reserves are in, I'd like to close the signups now so we can work on getting the order completed. Please be on the lookout for a PM from fatboyslim later today and get your payments in asap.

01. fluffles

02. MrBoots2u

03. fatboyslim

04. Syenitic

05. Split Shot

06. Lookseehear

07. The Systemic Kid

08. christos_geo

09. hchrishallam

10. davemak

11. jlarkin

12. MSM


----------



## NickdeBug

@fluffles

If you can make it a baker's dozen then I would like to give this one a go.

No problem if not.

Cheers

Nick


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## Dayks

fluffles said:


> The reserves are in, I'd like to close the signups now so we can work on getting the order completed. Please be on the lookout for a PM from fatboyslim later today and get your payments in asap.
> 
> 01. fluffles
> 
> 02. MrBoots2u
> 
> 03. fatboyslim
> 
> 04. Syenitic
> 
> 05. Split Shot
> 
> 06. Lookseehear
> 
> 07. The Systemic Kid
> 
> 08. christos_geo
> 
> 09. hchrishallam
> 
> 10. davemak
> 
> 11. jlarkin
> 
> 12. MSM


I am assuming they are going to be doing this in batches over a week or two? Says a 5kg roaster on their website and the order looks to be just over 30kg.

If so I am happy to go near the end, got far to much coffee to go through already.

You will have them cursing us with this in top of their regular roasts.


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## Daren

I'm just planning out my stocks - any idea when this might land @fluffles ?


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## fatboyslim

Message has gone out to guest listers with payment details.


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## fatboyslim

NickdeBug said:


> @fluffles
> 
> If you can make it a baker's dozen then I would like to give this one a go.
> 
> No problem if not.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick


I'm happy to include you but it just depends if you were to late to the party. See what @fluffles says.


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## fluffles

Yes I added you at the last minute @NickdeBug

@Daren probably end of next week at the earliest


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## Mrboots2u

fatboyslim said:


> Message has gone out to guest listers with payment details.


Nothing in my inbox


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## fatboyslim

Mrboots2u said:


> Nothing in my inbox


I've already got your details from the spreadsheet but I realise you need my bank info. Give me a minute.


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## urbanbumpkin

fluffles said:


> Yes I added you at the last minute @NickdeBug
> 
> @Daren probably end of next week at the earliest


Cheers, so factor in a bean strategy for the next 10-14 days?


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## hchrishallam

Paid. Thanks again!


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## fatboyslim

urbanbumpkin said:


> Cheers, so factor in a bean strategy for the next 10-14 days?


This is where my Foundry black friday beans, that are in the freezer, are going to come in handy


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## hotmetal

I'm all sorted until it arrives - a kilo of the surplus organic Ethiopian that Rave were selling off cheap landed yesterday, will be rested by tomorrow and will last me a good 3 weeks.


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## hippy_dude

Hi, if there is any chance of getting in on this as an additional guest is be extremely pleased and grateful to be able to try these as a roaster. My brother lived in London last few years and rated these guys but never got around to sending me the beans he promised he would. Gutted I didn't get back to you yesterday but it was my birthday so we tied up without my phone. If it's possible I can transfer money right away.


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## fatboyslim

hippy_dude said:


> Hi, if there is any chance of getting in on this as an additional guest is be extremely pleased and grateful to be able to try these as a roaster. My brother lived in London last few years and rated these guys but never got around to sending me the beans he promised he would. Gutted I didn't get back to you yesterday but it was my birthday so we tied up without my phone. If it's possible I can transfer money right away.


You're in hippy_dude. Sent you a PM with payment details.


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## fluffles

I've just sent final numbers to the roaster, so no more additions


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## fatboyslim

hippy_dude has pulled out so would anyone like the final guest slot 500g £13.50?


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## fatboyslim

Final guest slot still available. Come on people!


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## Rom

Might be interested - is it a one off guest slot for this roaster or a slot for the other roasters as well?


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## DaveMak

It's a guest slot. A 1 off purchase.


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## fatboyslim

Rom said:


> Might be interested - is it a one off guest slot for this roaster or a slot for the other roasters as well?


The slot is for 500g of the Vagabond LSOL for £13.50 delivered. Want it?


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## Rom

Ok, I'll leave it.


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## Daren

Horse, Water, Drink


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## paul whu

If the guest slot is still there I'd like to have it.


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## fatboyslim

paul whu said:


> If the guest slot is still there I'd like to have it.


Yay brilliant! I will PM you with bank details. If you could pay promptly that would be splendid.

Thanks Paul.


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## fluffles

The good news is that the coffee has been roasted and packaged, ready to be sent tomorrow. It should arrive on Friday, or Saturday if you're unlucky.

The bad news is that everything is arriving in a single bag rather than split between 250g bags as usual. Apologies for this, its just a detail that wasn't spotted (easily done). I really don't want to ask them to unpack and repack 40 packages, so I thought I'd give you all fair warning so that anyone wishing to split the bags (e.g. for sharing, freezing, etc) has as much notice as possible for acquiring spare bag(s). If you don't have any empty or nearly-empty bags at home you could always ask at a local cafe or roaster.

Hope everyone enjoys the coffee.


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## Drewster

Nice one Fluffy!!!!


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## Missy

Thanks!

Do people generally reuse bags? I'm guessing it won't affect the taste?


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## jlarkin

Missy said:


> Do people generally reuse bags? I'm guessing it won't affect the taste?


Can't speak for others but I do, on occasion, and never had an issue with it.


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## Mrboots2u

Missy said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do people generally reuse bags? I'm guessing it won't affect the taste?


Somewhere in the wild , rides the zombie bag of lore. @Xpenno @risky who has it ?


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## Phobic

if no bags use tupperware or kilner jars, just try to fill them up and minimise any air.


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## NickdeBug

Missy said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do people generally reuse bags? I'm guessing it won't affect the taste?


I thought that this was a post on the Yorkshire tea forum for a second


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## PPapa

Missy said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Do people generally reuse bags? I'm guessing it won't affect the taste?


You can get spare ones? Rave does that for a decent price.


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## hotmetal

If for freezing, maybe just use a freezer bag? They say you're supposed to seal up the valve anyway if it's going in the freezer. I've had coffee in poly bags that didn't puff up too so I'm not sure how much of a thing it is - mend just best to seal the bag.


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## Missy

NickdeBug said:


> I thought that this was a post on the Yorkshire tea forum for a second


That's a horrifying thought. No decent human being would reuse a teabag. Or even double dip it!!

Thrifty doesn't extend to hot beverages, even (especially?!) in Yorkshire.

Which is why I was bemused about reusing bags. I'm not going to have time to buy any in, but I'd like to freeze some as I'm on a bit of a backlog!


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## SpressoSnob

hotmetal said:


> If for freezing, maybe just use a freezer bag? They say you're supposed to seal up the valve anyway if it's going in the freezer. I've had coffee in poly bags that didn't puff up too so I'm not sure how much of a thing it is - mend just best to seal the bag.


Beans should never be frozen. You would need liquid nitrogen to retain the co2 and just inserting moisture in the process.

https://www.hasbean.co.uk/blogs/articles/6486381-storing-your-coffee-beans


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## Mrboots2u

SpressoSnob said:


> Beans should never be frozen. You would need liquid nitrogen to retain the co2 and just inserting moisture in the process.
> 
> https://www.hasbean.co.uk/blogs/articles/6486381-storing-your-coffee-beans


This is not the thread to start this debate . Can it be split off mods

Your

and has bean are welcome to your opinion but it is just that, opinion , and plenty of people enjoy the benefits of freezing beans with no perceived ill effects.


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## SpressoSnob

Mrboots2u said:


> This is not the thread to start this debate . Can it be split off mods
> 
> Your and has bean are welcome to your opinion but it is just they and plenty of people enjoy the benefits of freezing beans with no perceived ill effects.


Thanks fair enough


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## MarkT

It has arrived but no label on it. Lol

Not even a roast date on it.


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## fluffles

It was all roasted on Monday


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## NickdeBug

What's the street value of that package?

Looks highly suspect to me.

Looking forward to giving these a shot through the AP this weekend.

Cheers fluffles


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## PPapa

I take it is far too large for a letter box?


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## MarkT

PPapa said:


> I take it is far too large for a letter box?


Yes mate. My postie knows me well he left it in my recycling bin for me. I was out to supermarket.


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## MSM

500g bag arrived


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## Hairy_Hogg

Mines arrived, don't think we need a photo of another white bag though...


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## Dayks

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Mines arrived, don't think we need a photo of another white bag though...


Same here.


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## Phobic

mines arrived.

roasted on monday you say?!

time to crack it open I think for a cheeky test!!!!


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## urbanbumpkin

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Mines arrived, don't think we need a photo of another white bag though...


What about a black bag?


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## PPapa

What about no bag?









Edit: I'm at work, so no idea if it arrived. Will probably need to get it from the post office...


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## Mrboots2u

My guest slot is here


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## fatboyslim

Just in time too, I've nearly exhausted my supply of freezer beans!


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## fluffles

someone brew it ffs!!


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## Mrboots2u

fluffles said:


> someone brew it ffs!!


I need to split mine with @Xpenno , so I'll brew in 5


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## DaveMak

mine has arrived too.

just cleaning the grinder of the darkness before i do these


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## Phobic

fluffles said:


> someone brew it ffs!!


like this?


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## Mrboots2u

Cooling down ....


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## Dayks

Mrboots2u said:


> Cooling down ....


Nice photo, just teasing those of us stuck at work with no way to make a decent coffee. ?


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## PPapa

What mug is that? Looks sexy.


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## Mrboots2u

PPapa said:


> What mug is that? Looks sexy.


Mug would involve a handle - this has no handle so technically a bowl?

In tasting - not optimal extraction little quick for v60 and forgot to tap, so bed uneven bed.

Notes - juicy and plenty of undefined acidity with some grapefruit and subtle tea like notes . Probably a result of the brewing process as opposed to the origin .


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## Phobic

CCD 23.84% ext.

front gentle acidity, red berries (raspberry?), light clean finish.

something else in there that I need to pull out, funk?


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## DaveMak

i think lighter beans are not for me, (although they are a lot darker than i expected) i have done a few failed shots (flowing too fast) and i am at the lowest setting on my grinder so tried updosing to 20g and got my first decent shot.

but it reminded me of a fruity volvic drink but hot, and similar to one i tried a while back which was just called "a breakfast peaberry".

i will try again in a few days after they have rested a bit longer.


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## Mrboots2u

Colour of beans on the outside doesn't tell you how the developed on the roast


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## Missy

I thought mine hadn't arrived as no red card, but went outside in hope and found them in the postie's usual spot.


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## Kman10

I've split mine up into 4, smelt great


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## dan1502

I probably won't get to start it until Monday as I have a bit of Rocko Mountain to get through which I opened as a stop gap.


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## urbanbumpkin

DaveMak said:


> i think lighter beans are not for me, (although they are a lot darker than i expected) i have done a few failed shots (flowing too fast) and i am at the lowest setting on my grinder so tried updosing to 20g and got my first decent shot.
> 
> but it reminded me of a fruity volvic drink but hot, and similar to one i tried a while back which was just called "a breakfast peaberry".
> 
> i will try again in a few days after they have rested a bit longer.


What output are you getting from 20g? What time?


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## DaveMak

urbanbumpkin said:


> What output are you getting from 20g? What time?


20g in 40g out. in 27secs.

i'm not having a go at the beans whatsoever here, i knew that i like dark roast's that taste strong and have a bit of a kick, i was sorta hoping that my (slightly) improved equipment and skills would have allowed me to enjoy these like a trendy hipster, but i don't think their for me. but i wont give up trying to find something from them.



Mrboots2u said:


> Colour of beans on the outside doesn't tell you how the developed on the roast


yeah, i'm learning that


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## Hairy_Hogg

Been at the cinema with the kids (Lego Batman) so not opened yet, @Phil104 did you want any? Drop me a PM if you do.


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## urbanbumpkin

DaveMak said:


> 20g in 40g out. in 27secs.
> 
> i'm not having a go at the beans whatsoever here, i knew that i like dark roast's that taste strong and have a bit of a kick, i was sorta hoping that my (slightly) improved equipment and skills would have allowed me to enjoy these like a trendy hipster, but i don't think their for me. but i wont give up trying to find something from them.
> 
> yeah, i'm learning that


I wasn't thinking you were having a go at them. I've not tried them but as a general rule I've found that I get better results going finer. Keep the same extraction ratio but increase the time of the shot to approx 35 - 38 secs and see if it tastes better to you.

If not try the same tighter grind but extract 45g and see if it improves.

I've found beans that have a roast profile of intense mega choc flavoured beans tend to suit the shorter shot.

The fruitier ones longer extraction in weight and time. Again this is a general rule and just my opinion.


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## Drewster

Well I had my standard "quickly knock up a v60" this morning.

1) Aroma upon opening bag - divine  really really nice. (I love that first waft of a new coffee bag)

2) Nice looking beans - a little bit of lighter coloured "chaff" on the beans which I find "aesthetically pleasing" -

I am not sure if "chaff" is the right word but the the little bits of looseish stuff that seems to stay with lighter beans.

Only a personal thing but in my mind I never find this stuff on "dark" beans and certainly never on oily beans so I "think" longer/darker roasting must burn it all off whereas slower/lower/lighter roasting doesn't? And as all my "best" beans have been lighter I perceive this as a "GOOD SIGN"

3) Taste - Mmm fairly gentle flavours... Nothing hitting me in the face. A little tannin hint... (possibly) a tiny tiny hint of smoke? A "mouth watering" sense after each sip/slug....

I am getting "something" in there... maybe fruity... a darkish fruity "skin" taste (maybe "cherry skin" - rather than "cherry"??)

The "mouth watering" sense is sweet... but I am also getting a "dry" sense a little later....

As it cools the "dryness" is coming out more....

No funk for me.

Generally good 1st impression


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm giving it a couple more days before tryin it as spring. Tried a 35 min Sowdens this morning. 20g, ground on 7 on the Lido3.

I'm getting tea too with the upfront acidity, not getting funk at the moment. Agree with the mouth watering quality


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## PPapa

First brew this morning as I had to wake up at 7am and spin some cranks to the local depot.

Creamy, raspberry jam with some really nice sweet acidity? No idea of the origin.


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## fatboyslim

There is an intense but short-lived juiciness right on the front, that in itself is quite moreish. Definitely creamy with a nicely balanced acidity.

Anyone care to offer an early guess as to the origin?


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## Kman10

I'm taking a stab at Kenya, not even tasted it yet


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## fluffles

I've brewed up a kalita. I'd say this is not necessarily a crowd pleaser but there are some interesting and unusual flavours going on that are giving me lots to think about.

Lovely as it cools down. Might spro it later today.


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## fluffles

fluffles said:


> I've brewed up a kalita. I'd say this is not necessarily a crowd pleaser but there are some interesting and unusual flavours going on that are giving me lots to think about.
> 
> Lovely as it cools down. Might spro it later today.


Nice spro. 17g-37g 30-odd seconds 21.85℅ EY (unfiltered).

Fairly coarse on the grind. First attempt was a real choker.


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## urbanbumpkin

fatboyslim said:


> There is an intense but short-lived juiciness right on the front, that in itself is quite moreish. Definitely creamy with a nicely balanced acidity.
> 
> Anyone care to offer an early guess as to the origin?


Smells like Kenyan Beans. I'm guessing Rwandan


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## Drewster

fatboyslim said:


> Anyone care to offer an early guess as to the origin?


I am not going to jump right out on a limb... but I think this comes from.... somewhere between the Tropics of Cancer and Capricorn.....


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## christos_geo

As a V60 13.5->225 with 25g pours every 15 sec also getting clean, tea like (not jasmine), but fruity with slight berry skin flavour. Ever so slightly grassy. Really juicy but not overly bright. I'm more leaning towards a Burundi perhaps, although with their harvest months being April-July I'm most likely completely off.


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## Chris (Percit.co)

I've got to say it's super disappointing that no one contacted me about paying or joining the LSOL. I mentioned at the beginning of January that I wanted to be in on the subscription and stumbled on this post after the fact.

I'm still interested in joining but feel a bit like this is coming off as a clique.


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## Dayks

Chris (Percit.co) said:


> I've got to say it's super disappointing that no one contacted me about paying or joining the LSOL. I mentioned at the beginning of January that I wanted to be in on the subscription and stumbled on this post after the fact.
> 
> I'm still interested in joining but feel a bit like this is coming off as a clique.


This was offered to the previous members first, then the free slots were offered in this thread two weeks ago, where many including myself signed up, meaning everyone got a chance to sign up.

After this guest slots for this months LSOL were offered in this thread, meaning you had plenty of chances to sign up.

I do not know when you last looked at the forum but seeing as you have not posted for over a month, you may need to be more active to manage to get a slot on the next one.

Bear in mind that the spots filled up very quickly and many people will have missed out.


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## Daren

You snooze - you loose


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## Missy

Sorry Chris, it's a lot more transparent than sending coded messages with a digital "funny handshake" (though the postie often wonders why I roll my trouser leg up before I touch the package!)

I'm not sure

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=464842

Even counts as having made a request, and even if it did, I wouldn't expect volunteers to message people individually ahead of time to alert them to slots opening. (Maybe you could have sent a message to the organisers to ask when slots would open)

Not having a "waiting list" but opening slots with good notice, publicly seems the antithesis of a clique.

And fully fair as those who are on the forum most regularly will get most advanced warning of the slots opening. It's like ordering gig tickets... Not joining a secret society!!!

The best thing about LSOL isn't the beans, it's the way the digital and physical blend to connect a community of people. I'm less interested in the "fancy pants beans" than in sharing an experience of coffee with a range of people with differing kit, skills, and thought processes.


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## Phobic

Missy said:


> The best thing about LSOL isn't the beans, it's the way the digital and physical blend to connect a community of people. I'm less interested in the "fancy pants beans" than in sharing an experience of coffee with a range of people with differing kit, skills, and thought processes.


bang on!

join in more, that way you won't miss out.


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## Phobic

back in for a 2nd cup, CCD again.

on my palate juicy > faint red berries > background black tea (with a bit of tanin).

1 observation, make sure it's cool enough when you drink it, my first few sips it was too hot and the black tea dominated.


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## Mrboots2u

Chris (Percit.co) said:


> I've got to say it's super disappointing that no one contacted me about paying or joining the LSOL. I mentioned at the beginning of January that I wanted to be in on the subscription and stumbled on this post after the fact.
> 
> I'm still interested in joining but feel a bit like this is coming off as a clique.


This has always been run as a first come first served basis when spots open via threads and guest threads go up .

Its run in free time and admin don;t have the tiem to start lists up when someone expresses an interest or respond when someone gets a bit moany.

It's the only fair way to do this , otherwise you have people " baggsying " slots months in advance, and then you are chasing them for payment when they are not around .

Given the turn over of subs over the last 9 months it's anything but a clique , spots open up , people come and go . They are then apportioned by who puts their hand up at that time . The guy who is running it does not take a sub ( same as i did when i ran it ) Ultimately there are hundreds of ways of getting subs for coffee of this is just one, explore some others until a slot comes up .

Keep your eyes peeled , for next month ( like everyone else ) . Good luck.

Back to the coffee- anyone drunk some ?


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## ronsil

Absolutely as ''boots' says.

I was involved with this & DSOL for 2 years+. It's very time consuming & some of the difficulties are in finding suitable Roasters, chasing slow payers so it doesn't hold everyone up & keeping members addresses up to date. All this as well as keeping in touch with the roasters to ensure they dispatch on time & in the correct weight, 250g, bags.

Regular forum contributers should have no difficulty in keeping up to date with what is 'going on' and be very aware of what is happening behind the scenes.


----------



## fatboyslim

Mrboots2u said:


> Back to the coffee- anyone drunk some ?


I may have lost my mind but I'm getting a rich beef gravy note coming through. Perhaps a telltale sign of underextraction (and not under or over development of roast?).


----------



## Drewster

I've tried a few flat-whites.... although it might be a little early (post-roast).

Still get some tannin/tea.... I lose the fruit "skin" and also the dry after taste (cos it now has a milky after taste  )

but get quite a rounded full flavour and a "melted chocolate" mouthfeel, not flavour as such just an image/impresssion of the coating after sucking CDM/Yorkie/Galaxy/Chocie Buttons as a child.... certainly not Bourneville....


----------



## Mrboots2u

fatboyslim said:


> I may have lost my mind but I'm getting a rich beef gravy note coming through. Perhaps a telltale sign of underextraction (and not under or over development of roast?).


Only had a couple of brews. Wasn't beef like though ... Go try some gravy and see what that taste like .


----------



## hotmetal

I'm intrigued. Haven't started mine yet cos I've got a hopper full of Ethiopian at the mo but maybe I'll lurk on gravyforums.co.uk for a week to prepare myself


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Chemex - came out bang on 20% EY - tea notes - hint of bitterness and not much else. Pour over might not be best for this bean.


----------



## fatboyslim

hotmetal said:


> I'm intrigued. Haven't started mine yet cos I've got a hopper full of Ethiopian at the mo but maybe I'll lurk on gravyforums.co.uk for a week to prepare myself


I might add a bit of this to the Sunday roast


----------



## Rdl81

Brewing this as a v60 13.5g into 225g water total brew time 2.15 inc a 30sec steep. I might try and loosen it off and see how it comes out but at moment I feel it's an enjoyable cup but no special standout flavours to me


----------



## fluffles

I've completed the trio of drinks (filter, spro, milk) having just had a flat white. Comes through milk well. I've enjoyed all of them. The brewed benefited massively from cooling.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Tried spro this morning. I had to go much finer compared to Red Brick. 1st attempt was a gusher.

2nd try 18g=>45g 32 sec. Grapefuit, juiciness and hint of fruit, tea.

3rd try going finer still. 18=>43.5g 36 seconds. Thick Juicy red fruit, a bit of grapefuit with a sort of dried fruit figgy thing going on. Really nice.

It's a bit like strawberry or damson jam.

Completely different to yesterday's attempt at brewed. I'm liking this


----------



## NickdeBug

Tried these with aeropress this morning using standard foundry recipe.

Perfectly drinkable but nothing to shout "wow" about. I'm picking up a little astringency rather than bitterness, so probably a little high on dicaffeolyquinic acid. Add that to the fact I haven't picked up any of the funk previous mentioned, so I am going to go for a washed.

As others have mentioned, there is something very East African about the aroma when you open the bag. Not quite the full on tomato pesto and not getting the savoury notes on the palate but definitely indicative of East Africa. Maybe somewhere like Kigoma region in TZ, but could just as easily be Rwandan or even a toned down Burundian as the regions share some characteristics.

I am wondering if these would benefit from a little more roasting (did I really just say that!?!?!)

Probably completely wrong on the above. Looking forward to trying them as espresso in a few days and finding out what they are when @johnealey posts - 'cos he usually gets it bang on!


----------



## Mrboots2u

NickdeBug said:


> , probably a little high on dicaffeolyquinic acid.


You took the words right out of my mouth


----------



## Phobic

trying as a spro now, liking it much better than the CCD. 22.88% ext 1.8 on 3fe dial. 20g > 60g. will try it at 1.9 as well but I think 1.8 is about right.

lots of juciy red berries, dark choc at the end, with a lingering powdery sweet finish a bit like love hearts.

very nice, will give it a go in a cappa later, think it will work well.


----------



## Riz

I've tried it once with the chemex and twice with the v60. With the chemex I had a 25gm dose with 350g water brewed in 3:30. Came out really sweet with lots of berry flavours coming through. With the v60 I've been using 15g with 220-230 water in 2:40~. Initially getting some chocolatey(?) and tea like notes. As it cools the brew becomes very sweet with the cherry notes coming though again. Tastes more like a washed as opposed to a natural I think.


----------



## Phobic

tried it a little coarser at 1.9 and went up to 23.38% ext but have lost all the fruit. In retrospect the powdery finish could be over extraction though it wasn't unpleasant.

going to try it a little coarser and see if that helps.


----------



## fatboyslim

So no one else getting rich beef gravy?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

fatboyslim said:


> So no one else getting rich beef gravy?


I'm afraid not.....Bum gravy at my first attempt at espresso 

I have had other beans have a Bovril type quality but not so with these.


----------



## Daren

urbanbumpkin said:


> Bum gravy at my first attempt at espresso


Eeeuuuwww. Get yourself down the doctors


----------



## MarkT

I'm gonna start mine tomorrow. In V60 and freeze half. Still got a kilo of foundry to get through. Lol


----------



## Phobic

fatboyslim said:


> So no one else getting rich beef gravy?


did you grind the bisto again?


----------



## fatboyslim

Phobic said:


> did you grind the bisto again?


Damn it! I shouldn't keep the Bisto in the same cupboard!


----------



## Split Shot

Reading with interest, although my slot hasn't turned up yet 

I'm off on holiday next weekend so I'm pinning my hopes on these beans being good with a Kalita and hard water...

Observations on pour overs welcome!


----------



## fatboyslim

Split Shot said:


> Reading with interest, although my slot hasn't turned up yet
> 
> I'm off on holiday next weekend so I'm pinning my hopes on these beans being good with a Kalita and hard water...
> 
> Observations on pour overs welcome!


You're not the only one whose slot hasn't turned up. Lets hope everything turns up on Monday.


----------



## PPapa

It was sent 2nd class, if that matters.


----------



## mmmatron

Just dialled it in for espresso. Loads of berry and a bit of molasses in there. Really enjoyed it


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Tried it through Aeropress this morning - loads of black tea notes with mouth drying tannin and not much else - not enjoyable. Will give it a go as espresso tomorrow and see if I can replicate notes mentioned above.


----------



## dan1502

The Systemic Kid said:


> Tried it through Aeropress this morning - loads of black tea notes with mouth drying tannin and not much else - not enjoyable. Will give it a go as espresso tomorrow and see if I can replicate notes mentioned above.


I hope it's alright. A kilo is a lot to get through if it isn't. I think it'll be Wednesday before I start mine though I might try cupping it tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## PPapa

I quite liked it in the Chemex, but the brews in CCD and Wave were meh. Haven't had a chance to play with it that much yet.


----------



## Phobic

The Systemic Kid said:


> Tried it through Aeropress this morning - loads of black tea notes with mouth drying tannin and not much else - not enjoyable. Will give it a go as espresso tomorrow and see if I can replicate notes mentioned above.


I didn't like it as a CCD, the black tea and tannin dominated too much - didn't try it with milk though.

different beast as a spro, though I need to put a bit more work into dialling it in


----------



## urbanbumpkin

My spro setting are way out compared to yesterday....9 seconds out.

Maybe they're still settling in for spro and it's a bit early to be trying?

Any tips / advice from Vagabond?


----------



## fatboyslim

urbanbumpkin said:


> My spro setting are way out compared to yesterday....9 seconds out.
> 
> Maybe they're still settling in for spro and it's a bit early to be trying?
> 
> Any tips / advice from Vagabond?


Add a level teaspoon of bisto to the brew to extenuate the beefy flavours.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

fatboyslim said:


> Add a level teaspoon of bisto to the brew to extenuate the beefy flavours.


Dam it, I've been using stock pots!


----------



## fatboyslim

I noticed when brewing in the kalita (and serving in a glass mug) there was an area of denser brew colloids floating around in the bottom of the mug.

This usually happens on darker or slightly over developed roasts or perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about









I tried a V60 this morning using the very dense misurashi brown papers which tend to remove more of these brew colloids and lo and behold....a more pleasant cup. Just cleaner with more defined flavour. Slightly more inline with the roaster's own descriptors







Hope that is helpful to other people.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

That makes sense the sowdens wasn't as good as the CCD that I did yesterday


----------



## PPapa

That also explains why Chemex brew was the tastiest I had so far. V60 this morning was barely passable.

Also, both Wave and V60 brew drain times were 30s faster than usual using same pour regime and grind setting. Anyone lee noticed that?


----------



## Missy

urbanbumpkin said:


> Dam it, I've been using stock pots!


Get you Mr Fancy Pants!


----------



## fluffles

urbanbumpkin said:


> Any tips / advice from Vagabond?


I asked this morning, and they've sent the following (though I wouldn't take this as gospel ... different equipment, different water, etc):

For filter we use 15g dry to 250g yield in approximately 2:30min wit a TDS target range of 1.35-1.45.

For espresso our recipe for 8.5-9 bar espresso machine is 18g dry to 36g yield in 34s with a target TDS of 10-10.5


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Opened the bag this morning and put them into a CCD for a 35 min steep, 18g beans to 300g water.

It is very tea like, CCD on a long brew normally brings a lot of the sweetness through for me, although there was some interesting "juiciness" on the front of the tongue the overriding taste was tea.

Will try a V60 or Kalita after lunch.


----------



## unoll

fluffles said:


> The good news is that the coffee has been roasted and packaged, ready to be sent tomorrow......... QUOTE]
> 
> Quick question for you @fluffles : Does this mean that the coffee was all roasted on the 15th Feb? I tend to let a roast rest for 10-14 days before trying it out so it'd be useful to know when I can crack it open.


----------



## fluffles

unoll said:


> fluffles said:
> 
> 
> 
> The good news is that the coffee has been roasted and packaged, ready to be sent tomorrow......... QUOTE]
> 
> Quick question for you @fluffles : Does this mean that the coffee was all roasted on the 15th Feb? I tend to let a roast rest for 10-14 days before trying it out so it'd be useful to know when I can crack it open.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes all on Monday 13th
Click to expand...


----------



## unoll

Thanks for that, let's see if my patience can hold up for a couple more days.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok back into these brewing via syphon . Getting nominal draw down time which should get me near tasty .

The flavours in these are really subtle and faint , a fruit bomb it is not.

Cooling you get some soft berry and a little sweetness , some acidity that adds juicyness and then on the finish grapefruit and black tea. This is what lingers on the tongue and can feel a little drying .

How can I describe it ? It's like I had a dream of a coffee and I'm trying to kind of vaguely remember that flavours in a distant haze ....

There is enough to make it a pleasant brew but for me I want a little more boldness in flavour .

Will try with a longer steep and v60 again and see if I can make more of it this week.


----------



## dan1502

I cupped it yesterday and was in two minds. I get the tea and it was pleasant enough but there was an aftertaste of some sort. Today I tried dialling in espresso. All I can say as it seems that it needs to be dialled pretty fine to get near to the times quoted. I ended up at 18 to 40 in 27s having ground a lot finer than I have been with all the other beans I've been using lately and shall try finer still tomorrow. The last shot was ok as a flat white but I'm not there yet. If I get time I'll try refracting but I'd need to get up earlier.


----------



## fatboyslim

Repeat prescription of 14g v60 and again a much better brew. It just seems to suit v60 better than kalita and in particular the denser filter papers.

I get marmalade on toast (descriptor includes the toast). Altogether a more pleasant and enjoyable cup than I've had yet.


----------



## MarkT

First try of this in V60 with 30g 500 ml and is a little intense, full bodied, rich dark chocolate 85% bitter, smells sweet like sugar canes. Sweet tangy after taste of linger effect in your mouth. Juicy makes you want to drink more. Lol. Very nice and first impression, I like it. 

Oh yeah also getting a little beefy oxo too. Lol


----------



## dan1502

I just tried three more espresso shots and refracted them using a filter. I'm using a flat 6 bar profile and EK43 with old style burrs. I thought I'd try quite a lot finer.

So 1.6 on my 3fe scale (zero point is 1.0). 17.95 > 38.0 in 26s 8.9TDS EY 19.47-19.58 depending on 17.9 or 18.0 dose entered.

I tried again at 1.4 on the scale. I don't think I've ever had cause to grind that fine before. 18.05 > 37.9 in 31s 9.3 TDS 20.29EY if assuming 18 g dose.

So next at 1.2 on the scale i.e. virtually zero. 18.05 > 37.5 in 35s 9.5 TDS 20.51 EY assuming an 18g dose.

Taste wise I drank the second with milk and it was ok but with a lingering aftertaste.

I could try grinding at zero then increasing EY further by increasing yield but can't see me hitting the 18/36 10.5 TDS tatget.

I'd welcome any taste based recipe suggestions to try. The last shot was quite acidic but leaves an ashy/dry aftertaste so I don't think grinding finer is likely to improve things.

I shall try even finer to attempt to get closer to the TDS/EY of the recipe suggestion but shall be hitting zero if I go much further.


----------



## Syenitic

After delayed arrival, and an extended layoff from work. I went in for a training day and took some in for the aeropress. Not drunk a brew from that device since I was last in the office.

I am not going to describe what I got from these beans in terms of taste notes...I didn't even ponder what exoitc fruits (or boiled bone liquors) it might have brought to mind. It was just a glorious, nicely acidic cup of dark brewed coffee. What more could you want?

My task for tomorrow is to determine why this cup had so much impact on my perception - do I just like aeropress best? At least after not using it for so long. Am I crap at V60 pours, do I not flush the Hx for long enough, or is my freezer contained stock (shy away from saying frozen) just not up to scratch in comparison.

Going to spend the day tomorrow investigating...aeropress came home with me tonight!


----------



## fluffles

dan1502 said:


> I just tried three more espresso shots and refracted them using a filter. I'm using a flat 6 bar profile and EK43 with old style burrs. I thought I'd try quite a lot finer.
> 
> So 1.6 on my 3fe scale (zero point is 1.0). 17.95 > 38.0 in 26s 8.9TDS EY 19.47-19.58 depending on 17.9 or 18.0 dose entered.
> 
> I tried again at 1.4 on the scale. I don't think I've ever had cause to grind that fine before. 18.05 > 37.9 in 31s 9.3 TDS 20.29EY if assuming 18 g dose.
> 
> So next at 1.2 on the scale i.e. virtually zero. 18.05 > 37.5 in 35s 9.5 TDS 20.51 EY assuming an 18g dose.
> 
> Taste wise I drank the second with milk and it was ok but with a lingering aftertaste.
> 
> I could try grinding at zero then increasing EY further by increasing yield but can't see me hitting the 18/36 10.5 TDS tatget.
> 
> I'd welcome any taste based recipe suggestions to try. The last shot was quite acidic but leaves an ashy/dry aftertaste so I don't think grinding finer is likely to improve things.
> 
> I shall try even finer to attempt to get closer to the TDS/EY of the recipe suggestion but shall be hitting zero if I go much further.


Strange because I've been finding it needs a comparatively coarse grind on my EK (new coffee burrs though).

16g - 37g - 45s - 8.99/21.54 is what I last wrote down for it


----------



## Phobic

I was at 1.8 on the 3fe dial new coffee burrs, I tried 1.9 but it lost the fruit. will give 2.0 a quick test but I think 1.8 might be where it's at.

I've left it alone for a couple of days, going to try it again tomorrow.

what grind setting are you on @fluffles?


----------



## fluffles

1.8 too, Callum dial ... Don't know how different the dials are


----------



## Phobic

oops I was a little wrong as going from memory, it was actually 1.9, I've just tried 2.0 and Ext % dropped.

the dials should be pretty close to each other if set to zero point at 1.


----------



## dan1502

I've typically been around 2.2 to 2.4 lately with Rocko Mountain and Hasbean's SSSSH and other of their beans, never that low. I just tried going the other way as a sense check, first at 2.5 and was 18 - 42 in 21 s IIRC then back to 1.9 and was 18 - 41.5 in 26s (though no shots in between so might change on the next shot). Are the EY's you're quoting using filters? Anyway I've not managed to get an enjoyable shot yet and they tend to start off ok then pretty fast and gushy unless I go really fine. I think I'll try really fine tomorrow but a longer extraction than yesterday's shots to push up the EY but if that doesn't work I may give up. I'm tempted to sell 500g or 750g if someone with more patience than me wants them but will see how I go with the small amount I have of the first 250g first.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

I definitely like this in a V60 more than the long steep CCD I had of this. I get the toast and some other tastes, orange rind maybe similar to a thick peel Seville orange marmalade but only at a subtle level. The tea like drying has faded.

There is also a smell of Bovril, a bit like someone ran past with a lightly Bovril embellished slice of toast. That is weird but not off putting.


----------



## Split Shot

I'm struggling with this coffee.

My Aeropress at work is turning out a hollow, brothy tasting cup. I'm not hitting any real sweetness.

A brief stab at espresso just accentuated the flavors. Hard to know how to dial-in better, because I don't know what I'm 'chasing' with this one....


----------



## Rdl81

Split Shot said:


> I'm struggling with this coffee.
> 
> My Aeropress at work is turning out a hollow, brothy tasting cup. I'm not hitting any real sweetness.
> 
> A brief stab at espresso just accentuated the flavors. Hard to know how to dial-in better, because I don't know what I'm 'chasing' with this one....


Have you tried the foundry method i have been using this and 1.6 on the hausgrind i prefer it via v60 but areopress is not unpleasant


----------



## fatboyslim

You all thought I was mental when I said rich beef gravy! I seem to have moved past this stage now, at least brewing in v60 exclusively.


----------



## fluffles

Interesting that there seems to be a real split of people getting good results vs not.

Brewed a V60 this morning 15g/250g 1.46 TDS/21.41% EY.

Having seen the suggestions of bovril I must admit I definitely detect a whiff of it and a slight taste when the brew is hot. But for me it completely goes as the brew cools. I end up with grapefruit, marmalade, black tea and a little red fruit sweetness. It is completely different hot versus cool.


----------



## fluffles

p.s. i don't think there's been a correct origin guess as yet


----------



## fluffles

if anyone is having a complete and utter fail with this let me know and I'll send you a small sample (enough for 1 or 2 V60s, say). Be interesting to see if there is a variation in the roast?


----------



## PPapa

Had to go slightly tighter on V60 to get something nicer. A bit of grapefruit, peach and less notes of tea.

Went a bit coarser and it went straight into the sink. It's been a long time when I actually sinked a brew.


----------



## Rdl81

I find this fairly unpleasant hot but as it cools it mellows into a nice brew....I have had a couple of areopress that where just fails where I was paying as much attention during the brew so it seems to have a fairly narrow sweatspot


----------



## NickdeBug

I have struggled with these a bit, although I don't necessarily 100% blame the beans as pilot error is a distinct possibility.

I don't think it's a question of them not being to my taste, I have just failed to hit any sort of sweet spot with them.

Not keen as brewed - tried AP, Behmor and a sneaky Sowden, and espresso didn't light any fires either.

But...

cast your stones if you will, but last night I tried cutting these 1:1 with some Rocko Mountain and the result was pretty good.


----------



## Gerrard Burrard

I'm also struggling a bit with this bean. I've been adjusting grind slightly each time but I've still to achieve a brew that I've truly enjoyed. I'm using Bonavita ceramic with Filtra 2K papers at work and have brewed once using Chemex at home - each with a 60g/litre equivalent ratio. I can't get rid of an astringent bitter note most noticeable in the aftertaste. Is this what others are describing as black tea? If so, it's like the high tannin levels you get when you leave a tea bag to brew for too long.


----------



## Split Shot

Gerrard Burrard said:


> I can't get rid of an astringent bitter note most noticeable in the aftertaste. Is this what others are describing as black tea? If so, it's like the high tannin levels you get when you leave a tea bag to brew for too long.


This is where I'm at as well....sort of 'boxed in' on the recipe: it doesn't taste like longer/higher EY is an attractive option. However, going shorter/stronger produced a sink shot.


----------



## PPapa

Gerrard Burrard said:


> I'm also struggling a bit with this bean. I've been adjusting grind slightly each time but I've still to achieve a brew that I've truly enjoyed. I'm using Bonavita ceramic with Filtra 2K papers at work and have brewed once using Chemex at home - each with a 60g/litre equivalent ratio. I can't get rid of an astringent bitter note most noticeable in the aftertaste. Is this what others are describing as black tea? If so, it's like the high tannin levels you get when you leave a tea bag to brew for too long.


Aye, sounds like it.

I brewed Chemex with following recipe:

21:350g, 93C Volvic.

50g bloom for 30s and then 4 pours 75g every 30s. Aim to finish at 4 min mark.

It's alright that way, but will see if I can get anywhere better. I ran out of first 200g or so (other bag is in the freezer), had 3 decent brews out of that.


----------



## dan1502

I'm tempted to give up on it. I might try one very finer higher yield attempt to push EY but am not optimistic about achieving a good result.


----------



## fatboyslim

Everyone struggling with brewed try to grind coarser but not to achieve shorter brew time. Extend bloom and do longer pours, even one total pour after bloom. Then report back.


----------



## fluffles

Maybe water is a factor too, I use filtered mains with higher mineral content then, say, Volvic


----------



## Mrboots2u

fluffles said:


> Maybe water is a factor too, I use filtered mains with higher mineral content then, say, Volvic


I use tap water ( shoot me - i am a heathen ) and while i would like a balanced bolder flavour across the brew types i have trued , I have managed to get the tea like finish in balance , its just in doing so I have decreased all the other notes in tandem..


----------



## fluffles

Your water is pretty soft up there I would imagine?

My brew today was less tea-like, don't know whether that was due to beans aging or sightly thicker V60 papers (compared to kalita). But I'm getting plenty of other good stuff too.


----------



## MarkT

I am using Volvic and Waitrose mix at the moment. What grind setting would you recommend for feldgrind for V60 guys. I've got it set a while back and haven't changed it. I think it's still at 1.8.


----------



## Mrboots2u

MarkT said:


> I am using Volvic and Waitrose mix at the moment. What grind setting would you recommend for feldgrind for V60 guys. I've got it set a while back and haven't changed it. I think it's still at 1.8.


Depends what recipe and what pours you are doing

I use @MWJB recipe and pours and am around 1.2-1.3

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/hario-v60-recipe-for-1-mug-200g-lightmedium-filter-roasts/


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Mrboots2u said:


> Depends what recipe and what pours you are doing
> 
> I use @MWJB recipe and pours and am around 1.2-1.3
> 
> https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/hario-v60-recipe-for-1-mug-200g-lightmedium-filter-roasts/


 @Mrboots2u - Is that a Feldgrind or Hausgrind setting (thought you had a Haus not Feld)?

The V60 I had this morning via the @MWJB recipe (13.5g beans, 225g water, 15g bloom for 30s then 35g every 20s) was at 1.6, I have just made a cup at 1.7 and hit nearer the 3.15 mark I normally aim for. Not tasted it yet, will edit once I have.

My 'Zero' is pretty much bang on zero on my Feld.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Hairy_Hogg said:


> @Mrboots2u - Is that a Feldgrind or Hausgrind setting (thought you had a Haus not Feld)?
> 
> The V60 I had this morning via the @MWJB recipe (13.5g beans, 225g water, 15g bloom for 30s then 35g every 20s) was at 1.6, I have just made a cup at 1.7 and hit nearer the 3.15 mark I normally aim for. Not tasted it yet, will edit once I have.
> 
> My 'Zero' is pretty much bang on zero on my Feld.


The wooden one - hausground?

My zero probably isn't as accurate as yours .


----------



## MWJB

Got some of this in a swap with @Mrboots2u, just made a Kalita Wave, 13.5:225g 2:52 inc. 30s bloom. Started grapefuity, but then in to cherry cola. Fairly clean. Pretty tasty. 21%EY, 1 part Highland Spring to 3 parts Waitrose Stretton Hills (my start point for water).


----------



## dan1502

So as I'm not having much joy with this but others seem to be enjoying it brewed is anyone interested in buying some? I have 3 bags of 250g I would be happy to sell as a whole or in part at guest slot price or thereabouts. I'll probably post in the for sale section if I have time later.


----------



## PPapa

Any more guesses of the origin? I honestly have no idea what it would be, but feeling like it's African.


----------



## Phobic

I started with CCD and got lots of black tea, but as a spro all that was gone and it was all fruit, very likable, tried it in milk and it was lost, will be going back to spro tomorrow and start tweaking the ratio a little.

don't give up on it people, it might be a little different to what you're use to but there are so many things that you can tweak to try to get the best from it....


----------



## urbanbumpkin

PPapa said:


> Any more guesses of the origin? I honestly have no idea what it would be, but feeling like it's African.


It's a Rwandan


----------



## Daren

Ethiopian?


----------



## fatboyslim

No correct answers so far


----------



## Phobic

not that I'm on the african bandwagon but how about tanzania?


----------



## PPapa

What about Congo?


----------



## Riz

Burundi?


----------



## Wobin19

Well I am enjoying this and have found it's improving for espresso. I recall s similar tea note in a previous bean but it escapes me what it was. That one was at its best after about 3 weeks. Is it Mexican?


----------



## Wobin19

As espresso I also think it's more enjoyable once it's cooled a little. I am doing 20 into 40 in 35 seconds. Milk chocolate and tea with some apple like acidity is what I get.


----------



## MSM

Something from Kenya?


----------



## fatboyslim

We have a correct answer! I don't know if @fluffles wants the honours of revealing?


----------



## fluffles

We'll wait a bit longer







Got told off for revealing too soon a couple of LSOLs ago


----------



## Missy

Don't share too soon- I've not opened mine yet!


----------



## Kman10

I'll be tucking into mine tomorrow, it does look like a pea berry coffee I had ages ago but I'm terrible at these guessing things


----------



## fatboyslim

I accidentally liked the one or more of the suggested origins so I've had to blanket-like all the suggestions to not give the game away. Silly me


----------



## Gerrard Burrard

I finally got more sweetness and eliminated the bitter edge this morning. I hope it was the fine adjustment to the grind but may just have been luck.


----------



## MarkT

Mrboots2u said:


> Depends what recipe and what pours you are doing
> 
> I use @MWJB recipe and pours and am around 1.2-1.3
> 
> https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/hario-v60-recipe-for-1-mug-200g-lightmedium-filter-roasts/


I was using the recipe of 30g 500 ml 95'C. Pre wet filter

75 g pour and 45 sec bloom

Add the rest to get 500ml in about 4-5 minutes.

I will have a look at Marks recipe.

So does anyone have feldgrind setting please. Thanks

Mark


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## PPapa

MarkT said:


> I was using the recipe of 30g 500 ml 95'C. Pre wet filter
> 
> 75 g pour and 45 sec bloom
> 
> Add the rest to get 500ml in about 4-5 minutes.
> 
> I will have a look at Marks recipe.
> 
> So does anyone have feldgrind setting please. Thanks
> 
> Mark


If I recall correctly you'd be fine with around 1.8-1.10 using thinner filter.


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## MarkT

Cool thanks @PPapa I was using the filter that came with the v60 are they thin enough? Cheers

Mark


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## MWJB

MarkT said:


> I was using the recipe of 30g 500 ml 95'C. Pre wet filter
> 
> 75 g pour and 45 sec bloom
> 
> Add the rest to get 500ml in about 4-5 minutes.
> 
> I will have a look at Marks recipe.
> 
> So does anyone have feldgrind setting please. Thanks
> 
> Mark


4-5min is a pretty big window for a given drip brew with the same coffee, see if you can tighten up the times to more like +/-10-15sec?


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## Kman10

Just tried my first one, 20g in 40g out, flat white, definitely getting that tea, not the most pleasant, lots of work to do on this


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## Dayks

Had my first go yesterday.

18:46 in 31 seconds, wasn't great, tried it in a flat white and it was quite sour, going to tighten the grind in tonight and give it another go.


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## unoll

Just cupped this coffee side by side against the recent imm Ugandan coffee. Recipe was 12g to 200g water, coarsest ek setting on original coffee burrs.

For aroma I was getting a slight sweet scent but nothing significant, maybe a hint of blossom.

On the taste front:

Initial sweetness was pretty nice but not too mind blowing. Reminded of cola and brown sugar

Acidity was quite light, a slight tang on the middle of the tongue maybe.

Mouthfeel is quite light maybe a bit oily. Maybe sticky.

Flavour reminded me a bit of watered down cola at the start with a bit of orange.

Aftertaste seems to be very drying and I can understand the comments about Bovril as there's a weird kind of savoury or earthy quality to it.

Overall it's an ok coffee although not something I'd choose over the Ugandan I compared it against. I can see how it's going to be tricky to make a tasty espresso with it.

For origin I'll take a stab at either India or Papua new Guinea. If I have to choose one I'll go with Papua new Guinea.


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## Rdl81

Origin I think Mexico (or maybe Colombia) I really don't think it's african


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## jlarkin

I think based on - primarily - the aroma of the beans that it's a Kenyan coffee.

Just had one brew with it today, I thought it was pretty good and quite enjoyed that kind of tannic quality. Interested to try more.


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## dan1502

750g for sale in the for sale section now if anyone wants to give them a go.


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## fatboyslim

dan1502 said:


> 750g for sale in the for sale section now if anyone wants to give them a go.


Sorry to hear you aren't getting on with them


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## Kman10

Had my second from this, flat white, 17g in34g out, grind a bit looser, was a bit of a gusher but the tea tannin was muted and and it tasted a bit sweeter


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## GCGlasgow

Just tried these today, 18-38 in 26 secs, quite nice, not great with tasting notes but some apple in there. Will keep at it.


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## dan1502

fatboyslim said:


> Sorry to hear you aren't getting on with them


No problem. I'm struggling too much to get a decent result and life's too short but maybe I'll get some joy with the last three shots I have of the first 250g bag.


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## PPapa

It's a shame that people get disappointed by LSOL. In my mind it's always experimental beans, I might like them, I might hate them, but I'm always happy to try them out regardless. Something like San Pascual by Rave was just phenomenal, but it's difficult to match that all the time. If I wanted something within my comfort zone, I would just buy that?

It took me few attempts (or 200g ish) to get something nice, but I did it.

I found some roasters (like Foundry) that I enjoy a lot just because of LSOL/CFUK.


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## dan1502

I'm still trying and for example right now I'm trying to match the suggested recipe using a 9 bar profile. Last shot was 18.2 to 36.4 in 31s so pretty close. The trouble is that even though I've found some beans a struggle I've very rarely had this many sink shots and have had an idea where to go with them. Regarding trying different beans I'm definitely up for that which is why I subscribed and I also subscribe to the Hasbean SSSSH and sometimes buy other's spares to try. I just can't see me sticking with this for a further 750g as that's three weeks worth for me.


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## MarkT

MWJB said:


> 4-5min is a pretty big window for a given drip brew with the same coffee, see if you can tighten up the times to more like +/-10-15sec?


4 mins 15 seconds with 1.9 on feldgrind. Getting a bit of liquorice, caramel, marmalade, orange rind, still getting abit of oxo gravy thingy going on here. lol sweetness and tangy as it's get to the back of your mouth and hitting the bitterness at the back of the throat. I like this setting. Will keep this one.

Not a clue on where the origin of this coffee will be. Hahahah


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## mmmatron

I'm enjoying it for espresso. I'm going to guess its from DRC, the smell reminds me a little of the one we had from foundry


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## Phobic

I'm back to this again today, first a CCD, it's still all tea and tannin, didn't like it even with milk.

then another spro, 20g>60g @ 1.9 3FE dial, all the red berries have gone, marmalade sweetness and grapefruit, maybe a hint of tomato? really liking it. The powdery finish I had before has gone as well.

much better, really enjoyed it.


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## Missy

Hmmmm. I can definitely taste the Bovril! When I opened the bag it smells sweet, but with my nose in the bag there was definitely a slightly "burnt" smell, like when something catches slightly on the bottom of the pan. The beans seem like and have the mouthfeel of the Kenyan Theri I loved from casa espresso, but the taste is really a bit muted Bovril!

In confession it's the first shot I've pulled and it needs some work on the grind (17>40g in 50 secs, I'd started intentionally fine reading others comments.) I suspect 17>40 in about 40 secs may be closer to a good taste. I think I'm really going to love, or really hate this. The mouthfeel is lovely, but there's something not quite wow about the potential flavours.


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## Nod

Into this today... I like it... I am going for a columbian natural...


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## Nod

I needed to grind quite fine...


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## fatboyslim

We've had more than one correct guess now


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## paul whu

Just opened mine yesterday. Not getting any beef stock thankfully, but am getting a bit of shiny leather and saffron or tannin. Only had espresso so far. First shots were 18 into 35g in 30 - 35 seconds. In my current cup I have gone 18 into 41g which I prefer and am getting apple notes.

When I get to work tomorrow I shall try them Sowden style.

Haven't got a clue as to the origin at this stage.


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## Kman10

3rd cup today, 18g in 38g out with milk, getting some apple notes today, definitely getting a more pleasant drink from these now, as for guessing where they are from, not a clue


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## paul whu

I'm guessing Colombian. I base this on the timing of fatboyslims post although it could also be Kenyan. Not Mexico, DRC, Rwanda or Ethiopia that's for sure.


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## shannigan

Just started this today. For me, LSOL is about discovering interesting beans and this fits the bill.

I definitely get the tea and savoury flavours. I've only had one aeropress so far. I gave some beans to a mate who also had an aeropress and got strong blackcurrant.

I reckon it's from DRC for what it's worth. I've had other DRC beans recently so they're presumably in season (if that's a thing) and these remind me a little of them.

Thanks as always for organising.


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## fluffles

Has been best as spro for me - had an absolute corker today


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## dan1502

fluffles said:


> Has been best as spro for me - had an absolute corker today


Recipe?


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## fluffles

dan1502 said:


> Recipe?


16/38/25s 22.4% (unfiltered). FWIW I think everyone has to find their own way - different grinders, burrs, machines, water


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## Wobin19

mmmatron said:


> I'm enjoying it for espresso. I'm going to guess its from DRC, the smell reminds me a little of the one we had from foundry


I think you might be right there. It was a LSOL Foundry offering that this reminds me of too now you mention it.


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## dan1502

fluffles said:


> 16/38/25s 22.4% (unfiltered). FWIW I think everyone has to find their own way - different grinders, burrs, machines, water


Yes but it does give an idea of whereabouts you are with it.


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## paul whu

Time to unveil the origin?


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## PPapa

paul whu said:


> Time to unveil the origin?


It is **********


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## MWJB

Yesterday's Chemex I got more of the tea/tannin qualities, slightly coarser grind & slowed the pouring I got a cleaner cup back to the cherry cola notes, very nice brew.


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## fluffles

I'm not getting as much of the tea anymore, I had put it down to the beans aging but could well be brewing it differently


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## Missy

I'm really enjoying it. I suspect it's needed a little longer to rest, as I've started mine pretty late and it seems to be improving rather than deteriorating as I drink it.


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## urbanbumpkin

Missy said:


> I'm really enjoying it. I suspect it's needed a little longer to rest, as I've started mine pretty late and it seems to be improving rather than deteriorating as I drink it.


How are you brewing it? Espresso? What recipe are you using?

For spro I've found longer extraction over a shorter time. I've got good results with 18g=>43g in 35 secs on my set up although my grinders in bits at the moment.


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## Missy

urbanbumpkin said:


> How are you brewing it? Espresso? What recipe are you using?
> 
> For spro I've found longer extraction over a shorter time. I've got good results with 18g=>43g in 35 secs on my set up although my grinders in bits at the moment.


Espresso 17>[email protected] 30 sec seems to be doing well.

I've also been aeropressing it in a lazy fashion (20g in, up to the 1 with water, swirl, top up to 4, leave 2 mins or so press)


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## GCGlasgow

I'm enjoying this too, I find shorter extraction works better, over 30 secs and it's bitter. 18g - 38g


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## mmmatron

I've been getting nice results for espresso with 17g=>29g in 32 secs (finding a shorter ratio gets tastier results on the E10)


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## christos_geo

Sightly coarser grind for v60 really helped in reducing the overpowering black tea flavour. Can almost pick out the apple now. Ceado hopper free now so going to be testing rest of the bag as espresso. Also tried on siphon a couple times and got a lovely aroma of buttered sweetcorn. Taste wise overextracted however.


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## Phobic

just had 2 more goes at this.

1st was an Americano, black tea again, less heavy on the tanin but it still dominates, adding milk helps, but I needed a sugar to drink it. not for me at all.

then later I had another spro, it's amazing, loving it - Grapefruit lovehearts.

I filtered the spro this time in the PF using a cut down metal Aeropress filter, helped reduce the powdery mouthfeel. It's reminding me of the Workshop La Parroquia for those that had it, similar style - which was Bourboun & Caturra Dry fermented & washed, I think Guatemalan?


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## Hairy_Hogg

I have had two great Chemex's of this now. I think the more we play and finesse what we are doing the better these beans are getting. Burnt toast has definitely moved to a more subtle flat sweet cola flavor and the Bovril has departed. Quite juicy on cooling as well.


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## The Systemic Kid

Opened the EK as far as it would go, so pretty coarse grind for Chemex. Tea notes gone - replaced by subtle Vimto fruit notes - thin mouthfeel. Better overall but spoilt by an unpleasant lingering bitter note finish.


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## NickdeBug

Patrick - I seem to be getting the same aftertaste as you.

Artefact of roast or bean?


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## The Systemic Kid

Don't know, Nick but I can still taste it - reminiscent of TCP.


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## Phobic

that's very coarse! hmm I might give the chemex a spin, not had any cola off this as all yet


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## PPapa

Been enjoying it in the Wave and V60 a lot more than I did a week ago. More of grapefruit notes and some hints of sweetness while the tea notes moved into finish.


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## Hairy_Hogg

Consistently good Kalita waves and Chemex's now from these beans, they definitely needed the rest!


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## GCGlasgow

I've found they have taken a bit of time to settle down, probably just the past two days though not too unpleasant before but definitely needed a few weeks rest.


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## urbanbumpkin

Getting more juiciness with spro 18g=>42g 34secs. Thanks to Fluffles for sending over the sample.

Previously tried some coarser grinding (as above but 30 secs) and it was grapefruit and the tcp taste that TSK was on about.

I haven't been able to replicate the damson jam taste again.


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## NickdeBug

Have we had the big reveal on this yet?

I have given up on the brewed (I have plenty of other beans which I prefer so no point flogging it for no reason) but it has been okay as the espresso base for milk based drinks. If I am honest then I think that it smells bloody awful during extraction (the gravy granule waft was even identified by my missus as she walked by) but, like a good french cheese, it tastes better than it smells.

Not one that I would rush to buy again so now curious to see if I have tried other coffees from this region and how they compared.


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## fluffles

** SPOILER ALERT **

https://vagabondcoffeeroasters.com/products/latumba

There were lots of people who suspected it was African, and one or two were correct with DR Congo. It did remind me a lot of the Foundry Congo we had a while back (specifically the black tea and grapefruit notes). For me, there is certainly an unusual aroma but I have found it easier to hit tasty than most. I have had the odd cup I didn't enjoy which were overly tannin-like, but they were all shortly after roast and they seem to have settled down a lot since then.

Anyway, hopefully we can find something to satisfy everyone next time. How much do people have left? I'm wondering about when to schedule the next slot.


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## Riz

Yay! Although I didn't get the origin right, managed to correctly identify (as others also did) that it was washed. Progress!

Being a newcomer to lsol, I've been enjoying reading peoples observations re methods, tasting notes etc and learning from them. So thank you all!

I've got just over ~300gm left.


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## unoll

I've still got loads of this coffee left (around 600g), as I let it rest for 2 weeks. I think it was worth the wait as it's now coming out pretty interesting across all methods. Espresso is probably tasting best for me, although I'm definitely getting the grapefruit taste more with my French press. Not sure I would order it again though as I'm more into berry flavours at the mo. However, I think the good thing about lsol is trying coffees without preconceptions.

I'll probably run out of this coffee 3 weeks from now so I'm pretty easy about when the next lsol gets sent out.


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## Dayks

Those flavour notes might explain why I am struggling with this, on the odd occasion I manage to avoid the tannin, I get a really sour cup.

Don't know if it works this way with coffee but Grapefruit is a bogey flavour for me and it may be making it taste sourer than it actually is.

Still got a lot of this left, need to spend a day really having a go with it but have been struggling to give it more than one go in a session.


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## Missy

I'm in no rush, I've been away so got loads left, having let it rest. Plus I'm trying to cut down my coffee consumption.


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## Syenitic

Thanks for the reveal, and thanks for the journey to the DR Congo. Never tasted a coffee from there previously.

I have been really enjoying this thru' the aeropress, which has given me several cups with the most enjoyable acidity, best for me in several months, though I cannot pin that to grapefruit or any other fruit.

But through a V60 I really got the massive tannin black tea hit which I only tried a second time; not really enjoyable for me.

As an espresso, to me it was unremarkable, with some milk as a FW verging on cappuccino the acidity came into play and made a smile-bringer.

All in all, A good un for me which has definitely improved over the last week as several have said (Curious this as most coffees I have had rarely change so much), and a bit sad I resigned my place on the full subscription, but still got a little left from my guest slot this month.

Oh and thanks for organising and thanks to Vagabond for providing the beans at a very good discount on their retail prices.


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## dan1502

I have 500g left but have left it as I'm really enjoying the Hasbean SSSSH beans at present. I'll try again with it after that to see whether it's improved but if it hasn't I'll probably leave it. Regarding the next lot it's more a case of being forewarned so I can judge what else to buy or not buy. My take on this is that if I were a roaster approached to supply something that is going to be scrutinised by a load of coffee geeks on a public forum I'd make sure it was something special so I am a bit surprised and disappointed but maybe it's just me not getting the best out of it (and please don't think I don't appreciate the organisation that goes into this because I do).


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## Syenitic

hey @dan1502, everyone is different with their preferences. FWIW I was underwhelmed by one LSOL offering in the last 6 months while everyone else seemed to love it. The others I received beyond that one were good to excellent (for me). Not prepared to name what was what now, but my message is have faith, I would say a roaster prepared to offer their efforts up here is brave and knows their onions.

ps I NEVER got the bovril thing on this one!


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## Wobin19

Anyway, hopefully we can find something to satisfy everyone next time. How much do people have left? I'm wondering about when to schedule the next slot.

I am about half way through now which will last me a couple of weeks max.


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## reneb

i've got quite a bit left as only started on these a couple of days ago - late to the party as ever!

happy to fit in with everyone else re scheduling next slot, but would be good to have a rough idea of when this might be so can order in beans as needed.

and thanks to fluffles and fbs for sorting all this, much appreciated - one of the many things that make this such a great forum and a great community.


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## Gerrard Burrard

I've got about 350g left but have moved on to a selection of delicious new beans from @JollyBeanRoastery (inc a DRC but I haven't opened that bag yet). Late March or early April would work well for me.


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## hotmetal

Ah! Congo! Maybe that's why I'm getting apricot, a guava and a mango, passion fruit, mandarin...

Sorry, I really couldn't resist that! 

I have loads left as I've been working away so absolutely no rush for the next batch for me either.


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## urbanbumpkin

Um Congo! I've got some beans on order from square mile and Avenue Coffee so I'm not in a massive rush either.


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## fluffles

Current guestimate is ~2 weeks to delivery.


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## urbanbumpkin

Which Roaster is the next offering with?


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## Elcee

I would like to join the next run of this if possible


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## fluffles

March LSOL is available for guest sign up:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?36950-March-LSOL-April-Coffee-Roasters

Note - all future announcements will be made on the following thread, please subscribe to be notified:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?14759-Lighter-side-of-life-Interest-(LSOL)


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## fatboyslim

I might well be the first person to defrost these beans and brew? Very delicious v60, none of that initial beef gravy flavour at all. Dare I say it, freezing actually helped bring out some flavours?

Very excited about March LSOL!


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## Hairy_Hogg

Just put 90g of these into the Hario to Cold brew, interesting to see if this brings the tanin taste back or brings out the sweetness.


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## unoll

These beans came out really well as an immersion cold brew using a sowdon. grind was about a 2.6 on the fedlgrind. 60g of coffee to 700g water. steep time of 15 hours at room temp. really tasty.


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## Hairy_Hogg

Worked well as cold brew. Had some straight over ice and slapped some in the blender with ice to make a homemade frapacino, both were enjoyable, probably more as the straight drink with ice.


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## Chris (Percit.co)

You raise a very fair point about my posting. I had been checking but as forums can be an endless rabbit warren of posts I'd been daily checking the main LSOL post and missed this new thread. I assumed it would be standard procedure to offer to previous members first and then anyone who had expressed interest in the ongoing thread. But, I guess that's what I get for assuming.

In the end I was able to source some of these beans from folks who didn't like them so didn't miss out entirely.


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## Chris (Percit.co)

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether someone saying they really want to be in on the next one counting as asking if they can be in on the next one. If you're not convinced by that immediately then there's not much that will sway you. You're right though, I definitely could have messaged them. Lesson learned.

In the end, that's my takeaway from this situation; "Oh, so that's how it is." Now that I know my expectations are clear for future. I shouldn't have assumed things would be organised in any particular way and remembered that I'm new to this forum. My response was worded in a way that's gotten peoples' hackles up as well, which is a shame as my complaint was really around what felt like a lack of organisation/inclusivity and I've only made the situation more skewed towards a lack of inclusivity towards me by complaining. Sorry all!


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## Chris (Percit.co)

Yep, thanks for clarifying. Again, I shouldn't have assumed things would be organised in the way I did. I'm not trying to slate anyone, just expressing that it felt like a move that was exclusive rather than inclusive. I get what you're saying though and have adjusted my expectations for future, so I don't think this is an issue that will arise again. Cheers for the info!


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## Chris (Percit.co)

Hey guys, sorry for the multiple posts, I just wanted to clear the air and say sorry if I offended anyone with my original post. I was frustrated and surprised and could have expressed that much more constructively. You have an established culture and way of doing things here which won't always make sense right away to newcomers. That said, I'm on your turf and it's best to learn the lay of the land rather than expect things to change to suit me. Here's to hoping there are no hard feelings and that things will be smooth sailing moving forward.


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## Hairy_Hogg

Just had a CCD super steep (50 mins, was stuck on a conference call) and the tannin taste has definitely gone, this is now like a hybrid plum/date mix, no acidity from the long steep but nice balanced sweetness.


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## fatboyslim

My freezer-bag beans continue to deliver delicious and yummy flavours that I'm not sure I ever really managed to achieve when they were fresh. Yummy! The grapefruit is clear now.


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## unoll

Had an awesome syphon with these beans this morning (syphon was made last night and drunk cold today). Using a Bodum Santos on electric hob, the recipe was: 50g coffee (12 o'clock on EK with original coffee burrs), to 800g filtered water. Coffee into syphon at approx 94°C, stir stir stir. Leave for 30 seconds, then aggressively stir to get coffee spinning. Remove from heat at 1 minute and allow to draw down. Coffee in the server was still pretty hot (around 90°Cish) after draw down. Taste wise coffee was clean and had a light acidity that was pretty pleasent, kind of appley.

This coffee seems to be getting better and I'm finding that brews at high temperatures with finer than normal grinds and high extractions are the way to go (although I don;t have a refractometer to test this theory out, far to tight for that).


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## dan1502

Chris (Percit.co) said:


> Hey guys, sorry for the multiple posts, I just wanted to clear the air and say sorry if I offended anyone with my original post. I was frustrated and surprised and could have expressed that much more constructively. You have an established culture and way of doing things here which won't always make sense right away to newcomers. That said, I'm on your turf and it's best to learn the lay of the land rather than expect things to change to suit me. Here's to hoping there are no hard feelings and that things will be smooth sailing moving forward.


Missed all that. How did you find them? I'm trying them again having run out of the Hasbean SSSS beans. Too early to say but I think this morning's flat white was better than the previous. (Another shot and the aftertaste is still there unfortunately. If I back off the grind I can get it to be less pronounced though).


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## Chris (Percit.co)

I haven't been able to get a good brew out of them yet. There's just something sort of off about the flavours coming through. I've not been able to pinpoint what it is though. I've got a couple of experiments in mind so hopefully I can discover some gold as I dig deeper!


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## dan1502

I'm still getting that off taste from espresso but got it to a point where it's ok as a flat white. The slightly odd thing is that having left them for a couple of weeks I'm now finding it easier to get higher EYs. I'm still grinding fine but haven't had to go as far as before with shots taking a lot longer for the same grind setting.


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## Phil104

I have just started these beans (from a generous 250gm that Hairy_Hogg sent me and kept in the freezer until last night). Given some of the views about it, I was apprehensive but the brew I have just had from the Clever is lovely. The first mouthful was like pineapple chunks but as it has cooled, more satsuma like and overall, a refreshing mouthfeel. Encouraging. Another Clever later than try it as espresso tomorrow.


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## hotmetal

Seems to have settled down for me too. I've only had it as espresso or spro in milk. At first it seemed a bit 'challenging' and acidic. I'm grinding to a similar size as I have done for the last few beans I've had in, so not mega fine or anything, but it does take a little longer. 5.6" on the Ceado against a more typical 4.8" for 18g. Seems fairly consistent now, and fairly fruity but balanced. I'm typically finding 18>[email protected]" just takes the edge off the citrus.


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## dan1502

I've settled to around 18 to 40 in 36 seconds. It's not the citrus that bothers me but the tannin like lingering aftertase but it seems to have got a lot better with time. I'm now quite enjoying it as a flat white so long as I keep the yield to about 39.5 to 41. Maybe I was a little harsh and hasty though I did pull a lot of shots before publicly commenting negatively.


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## Hairy_Hogg

These are definitely beans that improved with age, had some great V60 over the last few days


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## Phil104

So, a couple of espressos this morning and a flat white for my wife. She said, it's nice, lighter and less body than the Kenyan (Karimikui via Munich's Roestbar) I just had. It was one of the two things that struck me as an espresso: thinner, lighter than the Kenyan and rather than the pineapple/satsuma with the CCD, and second, a refreshing citrus, slightly shy of bitter lemons. No tannin aftertaste; rather a nice mellow, juicy slightly chocolate taste. Maybe I have benefited from this being well rested and so far I'm definitely pleased that I gave it a try now rather than putting it off.


----------

