# Today's little light-hearted rant!



## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I feel I've been doing a lot of nit-picking lately! Anyway, here's one more!!

We had a discussion a while ago about the importance of the machine, and I think the general opinion was that it was not important for coffeeshops to have the hi tech cool kids super duper flash £18k espresso machines, and that skilled baristas and good grinders were more of a sign of good espresso being on the cards.

So why oh why is it that almost every day I see someone asking someone else "what machine do they use/you use?" as if it's the most important thing? As if it's a test of whether the place is really any good. I was asked the other day, and I felt kinda embarrased to answer, despite my Faema, my grinders and I being perfectly capable of producing shots better than the ones I've had from the hipsters on the funky pressure-profilers that they don't know how to use.

There! I feel better now!! Please feel free ignore this cathartic post.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It's nice to gawp at expensive kit , maybe the shiny kit and pretty flashy lights distract from mediocrity in the cup? Hang on didn't you visit for what was in the cup?

Prufrock served me a very nice shot of redbrick and a meh carafe of a special yirg from kaffe, I expected more . I can make better myself with kit a fraction of the cost.

We should be asking what coffee does xyz serve ...what's the service like ? Ah but the shiny , the flashing , what was my question again ?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Agreed. As with cars, beyond whether it looks nice, I don't really give a crap about the machine and know very little about them. That's fine by me. I seldom venture into the equipment and technical sub-forums here!


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

We live in a shiny superficial world where reality TV shows about tangoed morons are preferred over informative & though provoking programs, the Flash & Fascicle is the new hip man!! Why should coffee be any different?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

My first question is always what roaster do they use.

If they are using good beans, you'd hope they'd have the decency to brew it on appropriate machinery.

Don't worry about those charlatans and/or magpies.

You've definitely got the beans to match your skills!


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I suppose another way of looking at it might be to draw some parallels to motoring - driving classic sports cars, will lots of character, the driver must demonstrate skill and awareness of his vehicle in order to drive it effectively. Modern cars are very sophisticated and perhaps more technologically advanced but of course this is no guarantee that they will outperform a good driver in a classic sportscar.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

The UK hipster scene, and I'm not just talking about coffee here, is a massive wannabe of what is going on in the US. Right down to the clothes they wear, the pointy haircuts that are carefully crafted to look like accidental style, the affected laid back attitude, and those little leather satchels they carry.

I suspect that the high end UK coffee scene is very much inspired by what is going on in the US, and that includes the machines (made by Italians but not for Italians). After all, the annual high-priest of hipster coffee has to please the Specialty Coffee Association of.....


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Beautiful, extravagant machines do have an appeal - if your local café has installed a new Kees Van Der Westen you are, at the very least, going to check it out.

Sure, they are a status symbol but they also appeal to baristas who want to tweak and adjust every last variable. Is it worth it? Dunno. To be honest, I think part of the appeal of weird and 'difficult' coffees is that they are difficult, consquently baristas compete to extract the very last whiff of grapefruit/tobacco/leather/parsley/whatever other flavours there are supposed to be out of 25g of lightly toasted bean - a whole sub-industry has developed out of complexity. Traditional Italian espresso, whether you like it or not, is just too easy.

Competing baristas aside, do the public really like it? I'm not sure. I sense there may well be a backlash to coffee that is designed to highlight the skills and technology of the barista rather than what people actually want to drink. But maybe I'm just old fashioned...


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

Would you prefer chavs?

To be honest I'm past caring, but at least the type you refer to appear clean, groomed and have some intelligence.

It may all be 'fake', but at least there's some style, even if there is no substance.

The style may not be to your liking but when I look back to what I used to wear and look like I'm actually a bit jealous, mostly because they can afford to look like that.

A quality leather satchel ain't cheap!

Coffee & Accessories available at http://TheCoffeeShop.Co


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Don't know where I found this link - could well have been directed to it by someone on the Forum - but this says a lot about choosing a coffee shop:

http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/coffeequest/07-27-2012


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Well said Johnnie. Moaning about hipsters always comes across like nerds stomping their feet at the bottom of the tree-house.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I may not have a pointy haircut but I do have a tongue wedged in my cheek ;

Would I prefer chavs? No, but then you don't have to race to the other extreme. I think I'd prefer Mike in jeans, a crumpled and breakfast-stained t-shirt, looking like he'd pulled an all-nighter at the casino, and lost.

At least there would be a certain authenticity about it, rather than a desperately sheep-like effort to look like an individual.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Earlepap said:


> Well said Johnnie. Moaning about hipsters always comes across like nerds stomping their feet at the bottom of the tree-house.


Ancient Confucian proverb say:

"The higher the monkey climb the tree...the more it shows its arse"


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Not if it's wearing skinny jeans.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)




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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hipster-barista lol


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I just had an experience illustrating this point rather well. I stumbled across Curator's Coffee Studio in London and went in for a look. They had a LM Strada machine and three Mazzers grinding their house blend, SM Red Brick as guest and a decaf option. There were signs up everywhere offering home brew lessons and detailing Aeropress brew techniques - all very promising.

I ordered a cup of filter coffee and I was served a cup from their shuttle brewer. I am afraid it was really disappointing - it was too hot and tasted burnt and over extracted.

Obviously I cannot comment on their espresso and perhaps it is not fair to judge an Antipodean coffee shop on its brewed coffee but the coffee I had did not live up to my expectations.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I've not had filter from Curators but the best espresso I've ever tasted came from them.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm going to throw something in for balance, I do see value in big shiny all singing all dancing machines. While I don't see it as a defining mark of a quality establishment, if I come across a shop that has invested 18k in a machine that has the ability in the right hands to squeeze every last hint of yumminess out of a coffee, it does tell me that they are serious about what they are doing and the likelyhood is that it will be reflected in the cup. I know this isn't always the case but to help quantify what i'm saying, imagine you had just walked out of a train station in a new town and you see two trailers selling coffee and pastries, one has an old La Cimbali and a beaten up old Mazzer SJ, while the other had a beautiful shining Strada coupled with an Anfim Super C and an Uber Grinder sat opposite, let's be totally honest, which one would you expect to be putting in the most love and serving the best coffee? Which one would you make a beeline for? The La Cimbali guy may well be serving the best coffee known to man and be the most skilled and knowledgeable barista in the country, while the Strada guy may just be the son of a rich man and have all the gear and no idea but to the passing coffee enthusiast, nothing shouts "I love my coffee and want to serve you the very best I can" louder than clean, well looked after bling equipment. Plus, as I said earlier, in the right hands the daddy pressure profiling machines do have superior abilities when it comes to exploiting the best in a coffee.

As Gary said too, it's nice to oggle and you can't condemn someone for feeling that!

Just My Opinion.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Please dont miss my point tho. The machines are fine. I'd love one. My point is quite a basic and old one. The machine doesnt make the espresso. Nick, I would buy from both baristas and genuinely would not assume the expensive machine would yield a better shot. Really... how many baristas have the skill, understanding and experience of the technology involved in, for example, a synesso to fully utilize its capabilities rather than push the auto-profile button and do a 3-9-3 profile with every damn bean that comes their way? How many strada owners know the flow rate of their group heads?

People are buying them because other people are asking what they have! "Peer Pressure Profiling"!

My original point is... dont ask what the machine is. There are better questions to ask.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Kudos! Cars that look shiny to me make me want to have a ride, might not mean it's much good though. I know nothing about automotives in general ...

I'm sticking with the ol' consistency, skill and a good product (I.e. no Robusta) is key, good equipment is just a benefit. I'm very muchly looking forward to using an FB80 everyday at Bewiched Kettering, if we were getting something like a Strada on the other hand, I'd be quite nervous as I don't know how to pressure profile, just like the point Mike made.

It's bit like these milk jugs that create "Flawless" microfoam, don't get me wrong, the Espro Toroid is insanely good, but I can get the same results with or without. Expect to see the "Milk To Perfection" jugs in Costa Coffee soon, probably for the Cortado, apparently most people end up making cappuccino milk first time with them ...


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