# Hello



## Lattedrinker

Hi all

I found this forum today & over the pass 4h I have been reading no-stop!









Okay now the advice bit, I love coffee and now want to start making my own proper espresso & latte.

I've been looking at buying the Sage Barista Express BES870, but I can't find any reviews on this forum (only about the new dual boiler which is under test now & out of my price range) has anyone got one they can give me some feedback on or do a review for me please?

Or even maybe another machine around £500-600.

Thanks

Regards

Andy


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## CoffeeJohnny

Hi welcome to the forum, that's a respectable budget. Personally I would suggest you get a separate machine and grinder. For example in your budget a gaggia classic and a mazzer super jolly. However ask away as there are plenty of people who are better informed than myself.


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## The Systemic Kid

For a budget of £500-£600, you could get a very decent set up but wouldn't recommend a bean to cup machine. They can't match the quality of a stand alone espresso machine and grinder. If you are really savvy, consider second hand. You'll make your money go further and not lose much if you decide to upgrade down the line.


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## Michael the bowler

Seattle coffee gear have a video review on YouTube, which gives an overview you might want to have a look at.

Not a bean to cup, but more of an espresso machine with built in grinder, with lots of adjustable features, assuming it's the same being offered over here!


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## Mrboots2u

geordie-barista said:


> Hi welcome to the forum, that's a respectable budget. Personally I would suggest you get a separate machine and grinder. For example in your budget a gaggia classic and a mazzer super jolly. However ask away as there are plenty of people who are better informed than myself.


Agree with Geordie re separate grinder . Currently no one has the sage machine you talk of on the forum, so hence no review. If space was in issue ( hence wanting a compact machine ) then the eureka mignion grinder would also fit into your budget ( along with a classic ) , is a nice design and is kitchen friendly ( comes in different colours ) . Google it or have a look at one the uk retailers for it ( bella barista springs to mind ) .

I believe the smart grinder which Glenn is reviewing at the moment is the component that is in the sage machine you enquire about , so it would be worth waiting to see what Glenn makes of that . I would still shy away from a grinder combo - there is the heat for the machine , that can effect he grind of the beans , if the grinder breaks are you having to send away both it and machine to be serviced ( and vice cere ) .

Michael the bowler - I'm not sure the USA prices has translated over here effectively ( correct me if I am wrong ) . The sage DB doesn't seem to be sitting in the equivalent of the $ 1200 price point here . Some of there review on these machines from them ( atho great ) is based on their value for money , and as I have said the prices seem to have come across $ to £ from the states. I wonder how much this would colour SCG opinion if the machines were the equivalent uk price over there ? If the DB retailed at $1900 ( £1200 at exchange rate ) I wonder if it would still be great value for money .

The barista express prices at $600 onthe SCG site is coming out at £550 at Lakeland.....( not sub £400, at which point it's value may be better )

Anyway here is the review you talked of below , in general the SCG. Crew reviews are fun and informative

http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/breville-barista-express-espresso-machine

Also to the OP How many drinks ( presumably milk based ) will you be looking to make at one time may I ask ?


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## Lattedrinker

Not having the biggest kitchen in the world, I was looking to keep it all as compact as possible.

Mrboots I will be making 2 to 4 drinks at a time mostly lattes (wife loves them), I found this link today






I love that you can remove the hopper with beans still in & put them back into an airtight container & all the cleaning tools are kept together.

Does anyone know of a place in the Reading/Newbury/Berkshire area I can go and try out some machines?


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## Mrboots2u

Lattedrinker said:


> Not having the biggest kitchen in the world, I was looking to keep it all as compact as possible.
> 
> Mrboots I will be making 2 to 4 drinks at a time mostly lattes (wife loves them), I found this link today


Hi there , keep an eye on the Glenn ( admin ) review for the smart Breville grinder as it is essentially the grinder in that machine .

If you are wanting to make two- four milk drinks at a time then a single boiler will do it , but will not do it quickly I'm afraid.

Although out of price range machines the are heat exchangers ( hx ) like a fracino cherub or heavenly , an a oscar , have a lot more steam peer and would be less frustrating to make milk drinks with quickly (I speak from experience having had a single boiler and now a HX machine , the difference in steaming power and time is night and day ) .bought new HX machines with a grinder ( I'd still look at the eureka mignion and wait for Glenn's review for the Breville ) are out of the price bracket you have . These machines do come up on here owned by forum members and for £600-£650 you could get a good grinder and say an Oscar.

I don't know where to try these machines out in reading ,p,forum member Drude is a reading ite and may be able to point up in the right direction .

I don't want to make you spend more money , I just want you to be aware of the limitations ,frustrations the pluses and minuses of different machines and how much they cost .

Please feel free to ask any questions of me or anyone else or on this thread , happy to help . I would highly recommend seeing what Glenn has to say about the Breville grinder before buying the all in one machine .

Also to Breville machines are a lot cheaper in the USA meaning they have less competition in the price bracket they are I over there.


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## Mrboots2u

Have a look at this link will give you a rough idea of how long a single boiler takes to make 4 drinks . Given the SCG crews idea of a milk drink is a lot bigger than mine! Have a look at their channel they do this test with other types of machines also .


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## drude

There's nowhere in Reading where you can get decent advice on coffee machines, as far as I know. They sell them in John Lewis and House of Fraser, and of those two I'd definitely go for John Lewis as it will be easier to return anything you are unhappy with. In the distant past I have bought coffee machines at both but would not do so again.

However, I'd echo the advice of other members - better to buy something secondhand here, and make sure it includes a decent standalone grinder - all-in-one machines seem an inherently bad idea. You could get a Gaggia Classic as a starter, and spend the rest on a grinder. That way, when you decide to upgrade (it will be when not if, if you stick around this forum) you can sell the Gaggia for close to what you paid and the grinder will last longer. If you want more milky drinks then you might want something with bigger steaming capabilities, but might have to go over your budget. Coffeechap (member here) refurbs grinders, is not too far from you, and is an excellent source of advice, so I'd advise contacting him.


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## Lattedrinker

Has Coffeechap got a website?

I have been looking at the Gaggia Classic on ebay, is it worth buying from there or pay a bit more & get one from on here?


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## Mrboots2u

Lattedrinker said:


> Has Coffeechap got a website?
> 
> I have been looking at the Gaggia Classic on ebay, is it worth buying from there or pay a bit more & get one from on here?


No he's doesn't have a website , drop him a pm. Did you have a look at the post regarding how long it takes to make 4 milk drinks with a single boiler unit ?


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## Lattedrinker

Yes I did, so what is the best DB & grinder I could get for my £500?


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## Mrboots2u

Lattedrinker said:


> Yes I did, so what is the best DB & grinder I could get for my £500?


You won't get db and a grinder for £500 sorry.

You won't get a DB. For under £500 not even used .

I was referring to a HX machine . It really doesn't matter . Gaggia are great machines and with a good grinder will make great coffee. I just wanted you to be aware that making 4 latte drinks back to back might prove frustrating on the for you . For warned is for armed .

Best value DB machine is probably a a brewtus but your looking at £1000 ish for them , so not for you , for a first purchase or at your budget .

Used HX machine ( heat exchanger like a heavenly or cherub ) you might pick up for £300-400 if one appears on the forum .


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## Lattedrinker

Sorry I need to post again so I can PM


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## Lattedrinker

> You won't get db and a grinder for £500 sorry.
> 
> You won't get a DB. For under £500 not even used .
> 
> I was referring to a HX machine . It really doesn't matter . Gaggia are great machines and with a good grinder will make great coffee. I just wanted you to be aware that making 4 latte drinks back to back might prove frustrating on the for you . For warned is for armed .
> 
> Best value DB machine is probably a a brewtus but your looking at £1000 ish for them , so not for you , for a first purchase or at your budget .
> 
> Used HX machine ( heat exchanger like a heavenly or cherub ) you might pick up for £300-400 if one appears on the forum .


But then I won't be able to get a good grinder









Good fun & games all this just to make a coffee







lol


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## xiuxiuejar

Lately, there have been some bargain grinders on ebay. Super Jollys and Minis are not fetching what they were and I have seen some examples for arounf 150. If you could find an Expobar Office Pulser or Control second hand too, they are very good HX machines and shouldn't cost more than 400 second hand I should think. You'd have a really good setup which is capable of produceing as much steam as you need.


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## Mrboots2u

xiuxiuejar said:


> Lately, there have been some bargain grinders on ebay. Super Jollys and Minis are not fetching what they were and I have seen some examples for arounf 150. If you could find an Expobar Office Pulser or Control second hand too, they are very good HX machines and shouldn't cost more than 400 second hand I should think. You'd have a really good setup which is capable of produceing as much steam as you need.


Yep , the Oscar that went for £375 ( red a forum member bought ) with al the trimmings is a good example of what's out there.

Bought secondhand a gaggia won't drop in value if you move it on, I used to own a silvia , and one of the things that I didn't like about it was making 4 lattes when friends came round . It does the milk and coffee great ,it just took ,for me ,too long to do. If your happy dipping your toe into the espresso worlds with a gaggia ,knowing its limitations and what it's good at , then that's brilliant .

If you enjoy making the coffee making experiment then sell it and upgrade ( to an HX or DB ) . Bought for £100 ( there are some recondtioned ones on forum currently ) it would nt drop much in value .

Buy a good grinder first off ( coffee chap will be the best bet for this,for advice ,and value for money ) and that could stay with you if you decide to move up machines .


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## xiuxiuejar

Yes, the Oscars too - good call Mrboots2u. And good call on Coffeechap too - he'll sort you out with a good quality grinder that has been stripped and cleaned and will be like new.


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## CoffeeJohnny

I can personally vouch for the Oscar, not shiny but in my opinion it's the best at it's price point. Boiler heats quickly as such you never wait long for coffee. As for steam it is a beast.


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## Lattedrinker

Okay Thanks Geordie-barista,

Oscar now added to shortlist


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## Lattedrinker

**Update**

Gaggia Classic has landed (yes I know I said I wanted a Oscar but the classic was at a price I couldn't refuse)









I need some advice on a tamper & pitchers ie: what make or is it just down to budget?

& should I buy VST filter basket or just use whats supplied for now?


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## Mrboots2u

Learn the technique ,stick with a stock basket for now . Pitchers , I like the motta ones from cream supplies, get some temp tags from Glenn to help you . . Don't get too big one A 350 ml for one drink will be fine .

Tamper blimey , you can get one that will be functional ,like a motta ,or get one for the function and the bling (like me ) .

Oh have you got a grinder ,if not a VST is pointless . Did you gaggia come with a non pressurised double basket ,does it have the silvia steam arm on it ? ( metal not plastic )


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## Lattedrinker

The gaggia was new, so I need to get silvia arm & need to pm coffeechap about a grinder


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## Mrboots2u

Lattedrinker said:


> The gaggia was new, so I need to get silvia arm & need to pm coffeechap about a grinder


Ok spend money on grinder ,not on baskets! Congratulations on new machine


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