# Sage Duo Temp Pro? Aye or nae?



## PPapa

I am looking towards an entry-level espresso machine. I would not buy it any time soon as I will be moving my flat (again!). However, I like researching and getting the best I can get for the money.

I understand that this could be compared to other single boiler machines, like Classic or Silvia. However, Duo Temp Pro has PID already in place and I really like the fact of easy transition between pulling espressos and steaming milk. If I can get Lakeland warranty, then the after sales care is not a big problem (I suppose there's more electronics in it compared to something stupid-proof as Classic, so it wouldn't be easy to fix myself). I realize it does not have a solenoid valve, so pucks are going to be a little bit more messy and I couldn't backflush (how important is that? cleaning might be troublesome for that machine in general!). The odd-sized portafilter means I might have problems getting naked PF or a tamper, but that does not sound like a deal breaker either. I haven't seen it in real, but it looks quite nicely (I really hate how Gaggia Classic looks like!).

Is there anything I am missing? I would be pairing it with either hand grinder (Lido 2/Feldgrind) or electric, something like Mignon, probably. It seems like there aren't that many reviews about this machine and it does not look as popular as aforementioned machines. Well, it hasn't been so long in the market...

I was also considering a lever machine (La Pav), but thought that the learning curve might be a little bit steep. I wouldn't be able to justify a HX or DB machine as that would probably be an overkill to use only on my own.

Any ideas? Maybe someone had a chance to play with Duo Temp Pro for a bit?


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## MarkT

Hi PPapa ,

I have just bought myself a Sage Duo Temp Pro from Go Electrical. Currently Lakeland does not have it instock and it was cheaper at Go Electrical. I did asked to price match Lakeland however they would only lower it to £306 same as Go Electrical. I got one for £275.40 from Go Electrical as they were doing an extra 10% discount voucher. I have seen some good reviews on Duo Temp Pro and also it's new so you don't have to wait until someone sells the pre modded Gaggia Classic.

I've got this as a starter machine for me and hoping to upgrade to a dual boiler in a few years time.









Good luck with your search.

Mark.


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## PPapa

Would love to hear your experiences with it!

I would be buying it only in summer(ish), so plenty of time for Lakeland to get it in stock. I think I wouldn't buy it without a 2-3 year warranty. Seems like a way to go with modern electronics, unfortunately.


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## MarkT

Will let you know when I receive it. They probably won't post it until Tuesday now as tomorrow is Bank Holiday. Can't wait to have the decent machine.


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## Dylan

Basically the PID in the Duo Temp Pro should allow you to pull a much better shot with less faff that either the Classic or Rancilio Sliva. Both the other machines both go through a 10+deg cycle which can majorly affect the flavour.

No thorough testing of the DTP has been done really, it would be nice for all the new people considering this machine if we had a test done of the brew temp (which should, according to Sage remain in tight 2deg range) and also the temperature over a 30-40g shot, to see if it drops as cold water is drawn into the system. It is probably fairly safe to assume that the stability is better than machines without a PID, but the temperature over a shot cant be maintained by a PID, if the water coming in cools the boiler too fast you will get temperature drop. The design of the DTP is a lot newer than the other machines and it will hopefully be able to hold its temperature.


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## PPapa

Thanks @Dylan.

Is there anything I would miss by not getting Classic/Silvia? I was thinking of lack of accessories, less opportunities for modifications (does it actually need anything?), more complex design (more difficult to fix on my own), etc. Nothing that bothers me too much and it seems like there are few companies that could undress the portafilter.


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## Ritch

I've been running a DTP since September now and, hand on heart, it continues to be a really impressive little piece of kit. For the price, it's well thought out, well built and happily churns out your beverage of choice until the water tank needs topping up with a consistency that appears to be limited only by me, rather than it.

I can't remember the size of the PF, but when I did some research prior to buying, it did come out at the same size as a few others, so there may be scope for buying a naked PF off the shelf. Failing that, there's always the option of getting a replacement from Sage/Breville and giving it a severe trim. Sage do offer a naked PF for the Oracle and DB, but not the smaller machines in the range. It may be that Breville offer one that you can have shipped from Australia, as they do a wider range of kit than is offered under the Sage banner in the UK.

The tamp that comes with the DTP isn't the best in the world, but it's well made and up to the job; used better, used worse. At least you'll never lose it though, thanks to the magnetic holder on the machine itself.

Cleaning hasn't been a problem thus far. Steaming milk is blissfully easy. Not sure what else to say about it really! I'd take it over a Classic or a Silvia any day, but that's just my two-penneth!

R.


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## Dylan

Things you are missing with the Classic or Silvia are tried and tested build quality, and maybe superior steaming power in the case of the Silvia.

Bought as a new machine, possible longevity issues aside, the DTP offers a lot more than the other two machines.


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## GCGlasgow

@PPapa I have a classic with a PID (just installed but noticed immediate improvement) and a La pavoni, which I haven't found too difficult to learn (still room for improvement). I think i'm not far from you (Yorkhill) so your welcome to come and try both these machines before making a decision.


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## PPapa

I'd love to try a lever @GCGlasgow! Not pulling the trigger (or lever!) any time soon though, so I am not in a big rush. Give me a shout if you have spare hour, we could organize something.


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## GCGlasgow

Yeh no probs, maybe sometime next weekend?


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## PPapa

I'll pm you tomorrow, not sure what's the plan regarding my holidays. You probably wouldn't want someone coming to your home with ice axes!


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## Burnzy

Having been a classic user for a couple of years now,.. The DTP feels like a significant upgrade over the classic to me. More consistant shots, better silker milk.... I dont think you will be dissapointed. The DTP is a bit of a game changer in the entry market imo


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## PPapa

I hope in few years time we will see more machines like this. Seems like a no-fuss machine that just works and does not need any modifications (I guess it can be a drawback for some people who like DIY). Not sure how big of a deal is the lack of solenoid valve.

I suppose it's up to me in the end whether to choose a lever or DTP. I've got plenty of time to decide!

Thanks everyone for the input.


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## Burnzy

PPapa said:


> I hope in few years time we will see more machines like this. Seems like a no-fuss machine that just works and does not need any modifications (I guess it can be a drawback for some people who like DIY). Not sure how big of a deal is the lack of solenoid valve.
> 
> I suppose it's up to me in the end whether to choose a lever or DTP. I've got plenty of time to decide!
> 
> Thanks everyone for the input.


i agree... The lack of valve was a concern for me, but i assume they have a built a machine that deals with the pressure after the shot, and the wet pucks seem dry to me, they just bang out in one.

Best of luck choosing.


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## PPapa

Burnzy said:


> i agree... The lack of valve was a concern for me, but i assume they have a built a machine that deals with the pressure after the shot, and the wet pucks seem dry to me, they just bang out in one.
> 
> Best of luck choosing.


Thanks. Have you noticed any maintenance issues? Like cleaning, descaling, etc? I suppose it's not as straightforward as it is with the Classic.


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## djedga

Had mine a few months and love it.

I'd like a naked portafilter but not sure on size and I'd also like to upgrade the tamper but not sure on size either!

other than this no issues at all, steaming is awesome, shots consistent a big step up from my previous machine, a delonghi.

cleaning descaling and backflushing is all very straight forward and touch wood no issues to report yet!


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## PPapa

Wait, can you backflush it?! It does not have a solenoid valve which (I thought) allows to backflush.


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## NickdeBug

Dylan said:


> Basically the PID in the Duo Temp Pro should allow you to pull a much better shot with less faff that either the Classic or Rancilio Sliva. Both the other machines both go through a 10+deg cycle which can majorly affect the flavour.
> 
> No thorough testing of the DTP has been done really, it would be nice for all the new people considering this machine if we had a test done of the brew temp (which should, according to Sage remain in tight 2deg range) and also the temperature over a 30-40g shot, to see if it drops as cold water is drawn into the system. It is probably fairly safe to assume that the stability is better than machines without a PID, but the temperature over a shot cant be maintained by a PID, if the water coming in cools the boiler too fast you will get temperature drop. The design of the DTP is a lot newer than the other machines and it will hopefully be able to hold its temperature.


 @Dylan

I am pretty sure that the Duo-temp uses Breville's new Thermocoil. So no boiler to fill.

how accurate the temp is would certainly be interesting. The Duo bit refers to the fact that you can select pid setting for brew or steam. When you select brew from steam then it will flush with cold water to bring the temp down to brew level. Takes all the temp surfing out of the equation.

Gail demonstrates the new thermocoil at the end of this...

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/videos-home/ask-the-experts/what-is-a-thermoblock


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## Dylan

Sorry yea shouldn't have said boiler specifically, I think the same principle applies to a thermocoil, it can only deal with so much cold water.

Interestingly the cheap line of sage machines with this thermocouple essentially employ the design of that failed kickstarter coffee machine.


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## djedga

PPapa said:


> Wait, can you backflush it?! It does not have a solenoid valve which (I thought) allows to backflush.


Yes you can - it comes with a backflushing disk..


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## CoffeeRoaster1991

I just had the opportunity to have a quick play on the sage the other day, perfect for home espresso fanatics, however if you truely are a fanatic your best getting the Dual Boiler premium model, there is a difference.


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## NickdeBug

CoffeeRoaster1991 said:


> I just had the opportunity to have a quick play on the sage the other day, perfect for home espresso fanatics, however if you truely are a fanatic your best getting the Dual Boiler premium model, *there is a difference*.


yup - about £800's worth


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## MarkT

lol yes definitely it's £1070.


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## spinningwoman

I got one from John Lewis when the thermostat on my Classic failed just before Christmas. The coffee is definitely as good as I was getting from an unmodded Classic. I haven't quite got the frothing sorted - I had a Silva wand on the classic, which I liked, but the Sage wand is OK and a lot easier to clean. It's a lot easier to get right, basically. So easy, it's a tiny bit boring, but the coffee is great!


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