# Hi from the South Coast



## VJC

So If found this forum whilst looking up how to best grind my own coffee having been given a coffee grinder (I wanted to try grinding my beans rather than buy them pre-ground). And it seems I've been doing almost everything wrong.

I have the cheapest coffee machine you can think of. I bought it after Christmas a couple of years back when it had been accidentally discounted from £50 to £10 (we had to go back the same week for something else & is was up to £35; lucky I bought one for my mum as well, I thought) & the grinder is almost not worth using considering what I've read here. On the plus side it still tastes a million times better than instant!

The coffee machine is this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-ICM2B-10-Cup-Filter-Coffee/dp/B00076V8GC/ref=sr_1_10?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1398424172&sr=1-10

"Grinder" is this: http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/9349755.htm

My favorite coffees: http://www.whittard.co.uk/coffee/type/coffee-beans/breakfast-blend.htm (in the morning) and http://www.whittard.co.uk/coffee/type/coffee-beans/mocha-djimmah-coffee.htm (when I get home). But I often try others too.

Both drunk black*, no sugar but occasionally with a coffee syrup added.

*Though I have a machine similar to this for milk when I fancy it.: http://www.domu.co.uk/shef-electric-milk-frother.html?gclid=CMi086vF-70CFWzJtAodyEkAcw


----------



## Daren

Hi VJC. Welcome to the forum.

I think you have started where many of us did. I also had a blade "grinder" - a bit misleading... They should be called chopper as they don't really grind.

How do you see your coffee journey panning out?


----------



## VJC

Hi Daren

That's the thing - having read a whole bunch of things here, it seems that basically all my equipment (bar the actual beans) is wrong*. I really need to know where to start - what should upgrade\buy first where should I do it, etc. I'm here to learn & see where it takes me.

Any ideas are welcome.

*Despite this everyone I know thinks I'm some sort of coffee snob\afficanido.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Hi there and welcome. Glad your enjoying the forum









Re whittards , personally id say therefresher beans to be had and perhaps a change if equipment would allow you to experiment with different roasters and beans


----------



## Daren

Where are you located? Perhaps we could suggest a few decent coffee houses for you to try so you can work out what floats your boat.


----------



## VJC

Sure thing - I'm in Southampton.

And re: Whittards, I don't get them online, I get them from the actual Whittards shop in the City centre - the staff tend to be quite helpful. There's nowhere else you can buy fresh beans nearby except Starbucks & Costa etc. - if you know of somewhere, please tell me!


----------



## aaronb

Whittards, Costa and Starbucks do not sell fresh beans! Try old and stale!

If you are happy to buy online, Smokey Barn have some bargains right now. HasBean, Rave and Londinium are also worth checking out. Will cost you a few quid postage but the coffee will be 1000 times better, I promise you.


----------



## VJC

aaronb said:


> Whittards, Costa and Starbucks do not sell fresh beans! Try old and stale!
> 
> If you are happy to buy online, Smokey Barn have some bargains right now. HasBean, Rave and Londinium are also worth checking out. Will cost you a few quid postage but the coffee will be 1000 times better, I promise you.


Starbucks & Costa, I agree - I don't buy from them. Whittards has always tasted alright (to my unsophisticated palate) though; is it really that bad? What do they do different\wrong and why are they so badly regarded?

And I'm fine to buy online, I (seemingly wrongly) thought that buying from the shop would be better. I'll check out those sites.


----------



## coffeechops

Hi and welcome VJC,

In Winchester you'll find both Quetzal coffee roasters and Winchester coffee roasters; not sure if either have retail outlets, but Quetzal visit local markets so might be worth giving them a ring to see if they visit Southampton if you can't bear mail order. By post is definitely the way to go, though.

Colin


----------



## Mrboots2u

VJC said:


> Starbucks & Costa, I agree - I don't buy from them. Whittards has always tasted alright (to my unsophisticated palate) though; is it really that bad? What do they do different\wrong and why are they so badly regarded?
> 
> And I'm fine to buy online, I (seemingly wrongly) thought that buying from the shop would be better. I'll check out those sites.


When you buy the beans , is the a roast dare on them . Are you using beans for espresso 5-10 from roast date and used them up within 4-5 weeks .

I suspect , although I don't know , I don't use whittards that the beans are vacuum packed with a best before date on them , roasted when ?

Longer from roasts date less fresh , less taste.

Decent roasters will provide beans fresh to order , then they can be allowed to rest for 5-10 before use . These will taste better than a supermarket or pre packed bean that's been on a shelf for x months ....

Ultimately only you can tell though by trying out one of the roasters on the list on the forum and see if there is a difference ..


----------



## aaronb

Yep, as Mr Boots says try one of the suggested roasters and you should be able to taste the difference.

Whittards here always used to just have to coffee sitting around for ages. Really for a light-medium roast you want to start using it 5-10 days after roast and have finished it 5 weeks maximum, for medium-dark roasts you can add a few weeks to that.


----------



## VJC

Mrboots2u said:


> When you buy the beans , is the a roast dare on them . Are you using beans for espresso 5-10 from roast date and used them up within 4-5 weeks .
> 
> I suspect , although I don't know , I don't use whittards that the beans are vacuum packed with a best before date on them , roasted when ?
> 
> Longer from roasts date less fresh , less taste.
> 
> Decent roasters will provide beans fresh to order , then they can be allowed to rest for 5-10 before use . These will taste better than a supermarket or pre packed bean that's been on a shelf for x months ....
> 
> Ultimately only you can tell though by trying out one of the roasters on the list on the forum and see if there is a difference ..


Whilst they do sell vacuum packs, the ones I buy come out of air-tight storage containers and can either be bought in a paper bag like that, or ground to taste in front of me. The staff member then seals the bag with a label that he's just written the use-by date on.

Admittedly, I don't know how long they've been in the shop - always assumed they were fresh. Seems I might be wrong, I'll ask them before I buy any more from them. Thanks for explaining


----------



## VJC

coffeechops said:


> Hi and welcome VJC,
> 
> In Winchester you'll find both Quetzal coffee roasters and Winchester coffee roasters; not sure if either have retail outlets, but Quetzal visit local markets so might be worth giving them a ring to see if they visit Southampton if you can't bear mail order. By post is definitely the way to go, though.
> 
> Colin


Cool, I'm in Winchester quite often, I'll look them up, thanks to everyone for the help!


----------



## Daren

Try and taste as many decent coffees as you can and also as many different brewing styles as you can (espresso/latte/pour-over/aeropress etc). That will give you a pointer to the types of kit you'll need for home.


----------



## Mrboots2u

VJC said:


> Whilst they do sell vacuum packs, the ones I buy come out of air-tight storage containers and can either be bought in a paper bag like that, or ground to taste in front of me. The staff member then seals the bag with a label that he's just written the use-by date on.
> 
> Admittedly, I don't know how long they've been in the shop - always assumed they were fresh. Seems I might be wrong, I'll ask them before I buy any more from them. Thanks for explaining


Be interested to see what they say, when you ask em about a roast date and freshness . Im honesty id love to know .

They won't be a patch on something from one of the good roasters listed int he beans section ...


----------



## aaronb

Yep, you can do much better ordering mail order than Whittards.


----------



## VJC

Daren said:


> Try and taste as many decent coffees as you can and also as many different brewing styles as you can (espresso/latte/pour-over/aeropress etc). That will give you a pointer to the types of kit you'll need for home.


Speaking of kit, is there such a thing as a good drip coffee maker or other simple machine?

I like the convenience of a machine like the one I have, but after reading this site, I've realised that it's probably only a little better than instant compared to many of the set-ups that people here have in terms of taste. So far I've learnt I can improve this by getting better beans and investing in a better grinder. But what ways do people here use to make coffee when pressed for time? All the ways I've read about* seem to take quite some time. Fine for the weekend, but what about for breakfast on a weekday when I'm half asleep & am getting late for work - what do people do for a proper coffee then?

*I had no idea there were so many before visiting this site!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Drip coffee makers -moccamasters....


----------



## DavidBondy

Hi and a warm (if belated) welcome from as well!

David


----------



## Daren

I can't advise you on drip machines as I've personally never had a coffee from one I've liked. If your looking for something simple and quick then give some consideration to Aeropress. For such a simple and cheap device it makes fantastic brewed coffee quickly without mess. There are a few threads on here already which go into detail.

I'm sure there will be some other worthy recommendations for brewing methods along here and moment......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

VJC said:


> Speaking of kit, is there such a thing as a good drip coffee maker or other simple machine


As Boots says - Moccamaster has a reputation for being a good drip machine. Not cheap but well made and reliable - delivers the water at a maintained temp - crucial for getting the best from the coffee.


----------



## VJC

Daren said:


> I can't advise you on drip machines as I've personally never had a coffee from one I've liked. If your looking for something simple and quick then give some consideration to Aeropress. For such a simple and cheap device it makes fantastic brewed coffee quickly without mess. There are a few threads on here already which go into detail.
> 
> I'm sure there will be some other worthy recommendations for brewing methods along here and moment......


Yes, it was mainly the 'simple and quick' aspect of things I'm looking for - at least until I've learned more about what makes a better coffee. I'll take a closer look into Areopress. The skim reading I've done looks promising.


----------



## VJC

The Systemic Kid said:


> As Boots says - Moccamaster has a reputation for being a good drip machine. Not cheap but well made and reliable - delivers the water at a maintained temp - crucial for getting the best from the coffee.


Yes, I looked them up and almost fainted at the price of a new one. I'm certainly going to keep an eye out for a cheaper one though.

Thanks again everyone.


----------



## DavecUK

Hi, just saw the thread and your opening post. It's a little bit like the Matrix isn't it...you see the cuddly marketing world of shiny coffee stuff and become a believer. before you know it, you got an armfull of stuff and are ready for the finest coffee, made using the finest beans in the finest machine and grinder....Then bang!...You arrive here and learn the awful truth....you've been lied to all this time. The only thing they have not done is shoved a battery up your arse and believe me the marketeers would do that if they could.

The Wahl thing (I thought they made hair trimmers)...just useless for coffee.

Whittards beans are total shite, and not much better than supermarket beans

The rest of the stuff you got...well lets call it the price of an education.

Coffee coffee coffee...where to start. Well how about what they won't tell you.

1. A £4 carafe properly used is better than any shitty old cheap shiny store marketing coffee machine, if you just want a coffee.

2. Espresso real espresso needs a fair bit of investment Good Grinder+Good machine

For a Carafe, the requirements are simple, just add a device for getting water at the right temperature onto the coffee, it's called a Kettle and presumably you got one, a grinder and some decent beans. The grinder can actually be a cheap one for a carafe (£40 hand grinder will work surprisingly well), or even a £40 cheap burr type electric...lastly good technique to avoid the usual carafe errors.

Only one thing...if you buy that cheap £40 burr grinder and then get an espresso machine....it won't do the job and will become junk....it will also only give you a reasonable result.

The other way is everything above, but a good grinder, that will see you through, carafe, pourover, drip, cold brew, machine etc..this way you don't waste any money. When you want to sell it, to upgrade, you will find it easy and get reasonable money for it. Used makes even more sense as you will lose nothing. Now here I'm really talking around £200 ish used and £270 ish new and I'm not talking Iberital MC2 or similar burr sets.


----------



## Mrboots2u

VJC said:


> Yes, I looked them up and almost fainted at the price of a new one. I'm certainly going to keep an eye out for a cheaper one though.
> 
> Thanks again everyone.


You can pick up older variants of the moccamasters one acquire reasonably. I got a older version for work with original box £40 posted .


----------



## VJC

DavecUK said:


> Hi, just saw the thread and your opening post. It's a little bit like the Matrix isn't it...you see the cuddly marketing world of shiny coffee stuff and become a believer. before you know it, you got an armfull of stuff and are ready for the finest coffee, made using the finest beans in the finest machine and grinder....Then bang!...You arrive here and learn the awful truth....you've been lied to all this time. The only thing they have not done is shoved a battery up your arse and believe me the marketeers would do that if they could.
> 
> The Wahl thing (I thought they made hair trimmers)...just useless for coffee.
> 
> Whittards beans are total shite, and not much better than supermarket beans
> 
> The rest of the stuff you got...well lets call it the price of an education.


I'll be honest, I knew what i had wasn't brilliant - I considered it a 'starter set' - I just didn't realise it was just so bad. I mean, I had a well known make of machine and I had previously thought a grinder is just a grinder, isn't it? Boy; how wrong I was (actually, at least it's still good for spices which ss probably what they had in mind when it was designed. The "Coffee grinder" label is probably just there to push the price up.



> Coffee coffee coffee...where to start. Well how about what they won't tell you.
> 
> 1. A £4 carafe properly used is better than any shitty old cheap shiny store marketing coffee machine, if you just want a coffee.
> 
> 2. Espresso real espresso needs a fair bit of investment Good Grinder+Good machine
> 
> For a Carafe, the requirements are simple, just add a device for getting water at the right temperature onto the coffee, it's called a Kettle and presumably you got one, a grinder and some decent beans. The grinder can actually be a cheap one for a carafe (£40 hand grinder will work surprisingly well), or even a £40 cheap burr type electric...lastly good technique to avoid the usual carafe errors.


This is mainly what I want at the moment, a good, simple coffee. I'm certainly going to get a Carafe, and probably an areopress



> Only one thing...if you buy that cheap £40 burr grinder and then get an espresso machine....it won't do the job and will become junk....it will also only give you a reasonable result.
> 
> The other way is everything above, but a good grinder, that will see you through, carafe, pourover, drip, cold brew, machine etc..this way you don't waste any money. When you want to sell it, to upgrade, you will find it easy and get reasonable money for it. Used makes even more sense as you will lose nothing. Now here I'm really talking around £200 ish used and £270 ish new and I'm not talking Iberital MC2 or similar burr sets.


OK, I do eventually want to get an Espresso machine; is it wort investing in a better grinder now, for use with current my upgrade to Areopress & Carafe, or to hold off until I get an Espresso machine? What makes the bigger difference - machine or grinder? From your post, it seems you're saying grinders are the most important thing you can invest in, but I want to be sure before I invest hundreds of pounds.


----------



## aaronb

Grinder makes the biggest difference.

Excellent Grinder + Gaggia Classic = good espresso

Cheap Grinder + really expensive espresso machine = poor coffee and frustration

The sad thing is no matter how often we tell newbies this they never listen or do some research first!

The only thing I would warn you about is it can be a pain to change a grinder between espresso and filter, espresso has to be properly dialled in and you will probably tweak that grind slightly every day, so backing way off for filter and then trying to find your place for espresso again can upset it.

You could buy a nice grinder now though and use it for aeropress and filter, then use that same grinder when you get an espresso machine yes, and that is a great way to do it.

Look at the Chemex as well, its a nice glass filter caraffe that looks beautiful and makes great coffee.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Machines look sexy and are easier for retailers to sell.

Grinders tend to look more functional but make the ingredient , which is the second most important thing (after the quality of the ingredient itself ....)

Plus one on Aaron's post above , great advice ..


----------



## VJC

Right - off to research grinders then.

Thanks once more for the help - I have to say this is an unusually welcoming forum for the internet. Everyone's being so nice No snarkiness at my newbieness like most places. That's a really good thing you have going here.


----------



## aaronb

No worries!

We really want to help people buy the right equipment for them & their budget to make excellent coffee!


----------



## Glenn

VJC said:


> ... this is an unusually welcoming forum for the internet. Everyone's being so nice No snarkiness at my newbieness like most places. That's a really good thing you have going here.


Thanks VJC

Our members are terrific. We've all been through the process and probably all wish we had access to the collective wisdom that you have come across by joining Coffee Forums UK

I hope that in time you will be able to help others who are walking the same path you are now.


----------

