# Inconsistent Oracle Touch - Results attached



## AirborneConstable (May 15, 2021)

Hi everyone. I am new to the game and I am wondering what you think of the below inconsistencies I am getting with the Sage Oracle Touch. I am happy to experiment but sometimes I want to grab a quick coffee and at the moment I am dialling in more or less in between shots - not to mention the amount of coffee I am wasting.

The OT automates the dose and tamping, so that should be the same each shot. When I do weigh the dose it appears consistent (22g).

My routine is:

Come in the kitchen, turn the machine on. Sit down for 20 minutes and have breakfast whilst it warms up with the portafilter attached.

The following results are from yesterday evening, and then this morning. The beans used were roasted on March the 18th (bean brothers - UK). All of the following shots were pulled using beans from the same bag within 18 hours.

On the OT, the lower the grind number, the finer the grind, and the higher = courser. The scale goes from 0 to 45.

In between these doses I have completely purged the machine of grind, so there is no mixture of grind sizes.

*22/05/21:*

Grind: 17

Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 19g

Grind: 21

Brew Time: 26s

Yield: 58g

Grind: 19

Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 50g

Grind: 19

Brew Time: 26

Yield: 51g

Grind: 17
Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 54g

Grind: 15

Brew Time: 28

Yield: 37g

Grind: 15

Brew Time: 30

Yield: 39g

Grind: 16

Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 34g

Grind: 18

Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 69g

Grind: 17

Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 51g

Grind: 16 with 25g dose

Brew Time: 28s

Yield: 40g

*23/05/21:*

Grind: 16

Brew Time: 28

Yield: 15g

Grind: 18

Brew Time: 28

Yield: 33g

*Grind: 19*

*Brew Time: 28*

*Yield: 45g*

Above three pulled one after another and then 20 minutes later the below 3 pulled:

Grind: 20

Brew Time: 28

Yield: 61g

Grind: 19

Brew Time: 28

Yield: 65g

Grind: 17

Brew Time: 28

Yield: 38g

Is this normal? As you can see there are large fluctuations that I just cannot predict.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Cheers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The samples you show are different grinds and stop at different times , what happens when you pull a shot Same grind , to a weight out , your target weight

the auto function on the oracles W was never that accurate in tag they are Cheapish flow meters

Single dosing the machine is not going to help either , its as small grinder designed to run with some beans in the hopper

Now if you are using the basket it was supplied with then they were set for a dose of about 21 g also , why are you using 18g > have you swapped the basket out ?


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## AirborneConstable (May 15, 2021)

Hi mrboots.

Thanks for the reply.

I cannot set a target weight, I can only run the shot to a set time. I could in theory place scales under the cup, run the shot for 50 seconds and then manually stop it at the right weight - which is something I may start doing.

Thanks for the advice re: single dosing.

All my doses are the set standard that the OT is set to, which is around 21/22g. I haven't changed the dose at any point.


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## gareth689 (Mar 28, 2021)

I have one and it worked well for what it is, but changed to a completely manual set up now in order to get perfection. It is never hugely consistent, but you also need to consider that the grind settings seem to shift after making the first coffee or as the machine is turned on longer/heating up more. I found the single basket to be much more consistent so may be worth trying?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Are you checking the weight of grinds each time ? Just wonder as if things need cleaning out that may vary and I would say weighing beans in with an Oracle isn't really on.

A point on the grinder. I have not used an Oracle but all of Sage's grinder use the same set up, just the adjustment mechanism changes. All have the same characteristic. When setting coarser go too coarse and then to where you want to be. Not doing that can be very confusing. The burrs may open up to a coarser setting while it's grinding. Not that an unusual feature on grinders really. The burrs move by very small amounts, microns.

When you change grinder settings it can be a very good idea to waste some grinds. A few grams should be enough. That isn't usually that noticeable on these grinder but it does depend to some extent what is going on in side it. That is going coarser or finer. I notice one in black which I assume is what you wanted to come out. You achieved it after setting coarse and then for some reason 20min later set it coarser again.

When setting finer most grinder makers say do it with the grinder running. In practice people usually make rather small adjustmentswithout. The reason they say this is that there are grinds in the burrs and grinders aren't designed to crush grinds. I'd suggest no more than 2 setting counts and *do waste some grinds*.You will be stressing things on these. Unlikely to damage but likely to alter the grind.

The amount I have suggested wasting is based on a smart grinder and on a BE. The Oracle is very likely to be similar but I can't know for sure,

If you are using the machine in volume mode the shot time will vary. It will if you weigh shots out as well. It is a cheap flow meter but the main problem with them is where Sage put it in the water flow path. It also measures water which flows out of the over pressure valve and goes back to the water tank plus what actually produces the shot. This can work to a few grams of shot variation but only if the puck preparation is consistent. I've not done it on an Oracle but have on a Barista Express which uses exactly the same idea. It is less likely to work really well on an Oracle as more water is likely to go through the OPV than on a BE.

I suspect your main problem is using the grinder. Once that is correct you'll realise why it has a step count of 1 not 2 but if the burrs aren't settled to the setting things will be all over the place. Most people use all machines manually and weigh shots out.

Lastly you needn't wait 20min for the machine to heat up. In fact I believe they turn off if left that long unused  but not sure. If you find you need a hot portafilter 10mins is plenty. If not as soon as the machine says up to heat is fine ~3min.


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## AirborneConstable (May 15, 2021)

Hi both.

Yes, I was checking the weight of the dose at the beginning and that part seemed to be consistent to be fair, so I wasn't too worried about that part.

Thanks for all of the information and tips. I'm still experimenting and will try out what you have recommended to see if I can improve the situation.

😀


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## Cruss (May 30, 2021)

I've owned an OT for nearly a year now. The issues you're experiencing sound like you've got some channelling going on. Have you got the naked portafilter? It's worthwhile getting it for the OT to help identify issues.

17 seems like quite a fine setting. I normally run at 21 with a 15g basket to get a 2:1 shot in 28 seconds. If I was using the stock Sage 18g basket, my setting would be closer to 24.

Make sure you're back flushing with the rubber insert after each session, running a lightly damp cloth round the inside of basket before grinding and removing and cleaning the tamp fan on a regular basis.

I find that environmental factors influence my espresso, and for some reason a shot in the afternoon is much more prone to channeling than one in the morning. Still trying to resolve this, but think I might need to make a grinder adjustment


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