# La Pav help



## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

Hey, I'm after some help with the la pav and espresso in general. Basically I think all my shots taste bitter/sour, possibly burnt but I'm very much a newbie to espresso so don't know if it is normal and I'm just not used to it. I'm also not sure how to describe the flavours I'm getting which doesn't help I know! Visually the shots are good, nice crema and thick, gloopy espresso.

Onto the equipment. I've got a K6 grinder and have dialled the grind in to give what I think is about the correct resistance on the lever, the shots still pull quicker than 25s though, should it be a finer grind to slow this down but then a higher pressure extraction? The brew temp as close to 92C as I can get it, theres a temp probe on the head and I've also added a heat sink which has stabilised it further.

I'm currently on Rave's mocha java and signature blend and dose 14g in and have varied 14, 21 and 28g out, also tried 8g in the single basket and 24g out to get a 1:3. All taste very similar to me as espresso, I can't get the chocolate/nutty notes in either extraction. They are all nice in milk, I prefer closer to 1:1, still lacking the notes though.

I have read about people achieving all these flavours and wonder if my taste buds just aren't accustomed yet or if it is my bad shots.


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)




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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

That looks like a lot of crema. I find it hard on the la pav to gauge the time, maybe try pulling the lever slower


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

What ratio do Rave recommend?

Given your water temp and the fresh roasted and ground beans the pressure of the shot seems to be the thing to change. Put the machine on a scale and measure the downward force or use luggage scales and pull down from the same position/height until you feel the same level of resistance.

I would aim to brew to the same ratio as Rave if aiming for their tasting notes.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

How long have the beans rested? 10days is recommended by Rave


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

That was the nicest tasting shot at 1:1 but as you say a lot of crema, not sure why?

Rave recommend 1:2.1, I was probably closer to this when I pulled a 1:2 due to my awkwardness trying to operate the lever and watch the scales









The bathroom scale suggests I'm putting about 8kg through the lever.

Beans have been resting for 14 days now, I didn't get the grinder stripped and back together to make the 10 days. They should still be fine though?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Yep, they can be over lively before then.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Could try a higher temp (95) or a higher pressure (12kg) if shots are sour. Lots of crema is usually produced by either high temp or high pressure. How accurate is your temp probe and where is it located? If it's outside the group then you're measuring the temp of the metal that's supposed to act as a heatsink for the water coming in at over 100c (about 120c???). So you might be brewing at a high temp if your group is that hot. Not sure what the ideal idle temp is. How long does it take for the machine to hit that temp after switching on?


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

I've played around with the temp and usually get the group to 84C before pulling the shot. It heats up to 92-93C while pre infusing. Started at a lower group temp but found it didn't reach 92C before the shot was pulled so I assumed the water was too cool and got the group a touch hotter first. The probe is foil taped to the outside of the group and is reasonably accurate.

I'll make the grinder a bit finer to increase the force and shot timing and see how that goes first, I can come back to the temperature when I get the force and timing right then









I'm not sure how long it takes to heat up, I'll time it when I use it tomorrow.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Your shots don't look like they've been pulled with water that was too hot or cold so you can probably ignore that but (was just focusing on taste description of bitter/sour). People sometimes confuse bitter and sour flavours so it could be you are under extracting and need to use a higher pressure (8kg does seem low to me). Shorter shots will always be more acidic than longer ones too.


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks Rob, it could well be that I am confusing the flavours. I am very much a newbie espresso drinker and find it a complex taste to decipher!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

sambo2 said:


> That was the nicest tasting shot at 1:1 but as you say a lot of crema, not sure why?
> 
> .


If your nicest tasting shots are 1:1 why not stick there for a while? If they are too concentrated dilute with hot water.


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## owain (Dec 26, 2015)

Shot looks tiny, with a lot of crema, dark roast will extract easier so I go with a more coarse grind and finer grind with lighter roasts (that's just my taste though), I had a batch of beans that wasn't producing the flavours I had previously had from the same bean but different batch


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

MWJB said:


> If your nicest tasting shots are 1:1 why not stick there for a while? If they are too concentrated dilute with hot water.


It's the best of the worst really, fine in milk but not so good on its own. I'm hoping that it's under extracting and that a slower pull at higher pressure will loose some of the bitterness. I think I just need to experiment more, I've got a baseline to go from now at least.

Owain, it was a small shot but the weight was on point for a 1:1, dont know how it got so much crema though!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

sambo2 said:


> It's the best of the worst really, fine in milk but not so good on its own. I'm hoping that it's under extracting and that a slower pull at higher pressure will loose some of the bitterness. I think I just need to experiment more, I've got a baseline to go from now at least.


It is almost certainly under-extracting, grind finer to increase extraction.


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

I've had another play this evening with a finer grind. I'm hitting around 12kg on the scales now but the shot still pulls fairly quickly at around 15 seconds. It takes a bit longer to get the first espresso out, almost to the point where I thought it was choking. I'm also dosing slightly lower at 12g in and 24g out as its harder to pull a longer shot without multiple fellini pulls.

The results are better, still bitter but an improvement. Can't seem to get any sweetness from the shot but it might be partly due to the beans, looking to try some CC next. I did have a shot in milk which was delicious, maybe I'm just not an espresso drinker yet.


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

You need to know what your aiming for and what is possible given the beans you have. How about going to the Forum day at Rave 02/10/16?


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## sambo2 (Aug 15, 2016)

I hadn't seen that, thanks for the heads up. I've put my name down so hopefully it's not too late!


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