# Now, heres a thought



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you do not drink espresso......but make a shot and then dilute it, would it not make more sense just finding a longer drink method in the first place?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

No, i like a long black/americano, i enjoy the mouthfeel of it over a french press.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes, perfect sense.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

One yes, one no....maybe I should add a poll....


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Do you think that an Americano tastes the same as a ccd or French press or aeropress ?

I don't, so if I liked the taste of diluted espresso why must I drink something else !


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm not an expert but I'd be tempted to say yes, maybe, sort of. Saves a lot of expense and hassle getting an espresso setup when you could try any of the various brew methods like Aeropress, pour over or even syphon. In fact, I prefer the taste of V60 or syphon to Americano or long black. I drink my espresso neat or as cappuccino/fw. But if someone is an Americano lover or enjoys making espresso for other reasons, then it might be different.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Less steps making the drink, you negate the dilution stage that allows another margin for error, drip is easier to get high extractions than espresso generally, less water wastage, hand grind & there's less bean wastage (unless grinding with a shop grinder).

@froggystyle, what's the issue with the French press brews?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

No issue with FP brews, i have this at work and on the boat, i just like a water on espresso a little more, better feel in the mouth.

Yes i can leave the FP to steep longer to achieve this, but then i feel it gets a bit 'sludgy'


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

h1udd said:


> Do you think that an Americano tastes the same as a ccd or French press or aeropress ?
> 
> I don't, so if I liked the taste of diluted espresso why must I drink something else !


Paper filtered coffee will be cleaner, French press may limit extraction if going for strength, but otherwise there shouldn't be huge differences in taste (more in mouthfeel) unless you are making very strong Americanos with little dilution. Depends on what you're getting with Americano vs result with manual.

If your espresso is dialled in, then why not dilute it for a longer drink, no one has said you must do anything other than what you already do.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> No issue with FP brews, i have this at work and on the boat, i just like a water on espresso a little more, better feel in the mouth.
> 
> Yes i can leave the FP to steep longer to achieve this, but then i feel it gets a bit 'sludgy'


French press shouldn't be sludgy, longer steeps should be cleaner. What dilution ratio are you using for Americano?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I just like to think things through, even though I accept I may not agree or like the outcome. I need an espresso machine because I have a constant flow of people thought the week who expect a milk based drink. Now that I have been reborn, I am discovering that I do have taste buds although they need refined and I am never going to be a super taster. I do not know if I could bring myself to have a refractometer and the like though who knows what the future may bring. Does this mean i can discount an EK....I hope so but who knows

I do not really want too buy every brew method known to man but I accept they all produce a different end result. SO, have bought a press and am going to experiment for a few weeks with it, trying new beans as we go. Then, see where that takes me. I will continue with americans. I like a strong drink with breakfast. I have one of those Trinity brewers on order....no idea why really other than I liked it and the leather bag it comes in, but it offers two hot styles of brewing so theres another arrow for the quiver......


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Not aimed at me, but my espresso is roughly 18 gas in and I take about 30 gas out in 25 to 30 seconds......thats as scientific as I get. I then add (guessing again) about 6 to 7 ounces of water.

When the french press arrives, I will weigh in the expected water content and brew at a 1:10 ratio.....Mark, am I right in the fact you suggest not plunging but using the wire filter just to pour though?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

MWJB said:


> French press shouldn't be sludgy, longer steeps should be cleaner. What dilution ratio are you using for Americano?


Generally a double shot into a 6oz topped up with hot water.


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## rcoltz (Apr 1, 2016)

froggystyle said:


> Generally a double shot into a 6oz topped up with hot water.


One question on Americano technique that may influence flavour:

Is it better to pour the water into the espresso shot OR place water in cup and then brew espresso shot into the water directly?

I have done both and the latter does retain the crema better.

Thoughts?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

rcoltz said:


> One question on Americano technique that may influence flavour:
> 
> Is it better to pour the water into the espresso shot OR place water in cup and then brew espresso shot into the water directly?
> 
> ...


Some say one, some say the other, i like water on top, try both and see what you think.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Generally I find my americanos and aeropress brews to be quite different. I think I prefer americanos, better depth of flavour and (as someone mentioned) mouthfeel, but this all comes down to the equipment used etc.

I also drink espresso and latte / cappuccino, so it makes sense for me to have an espresso setup - the only reason I have an aeropress really, is for work (Vesuvius not so portable)


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

MWJB said:


> If your espresso is dialled in, then why not dilute it for a longer drink, no one has said you must do anything other than what you already do.


well dfk kind of said if you dilute espresso then it would make sense to find another drink .... Which I think is kind of stupid, if you like the taste of diluted espresso more than you do another method, then so be it. I think there is s massive difference between an infusion and a diluted under pressure extraction ... Perhaps dfks tastebuds are shot ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Perhaps dfks tastebuds are shot ?

Need trained from years of abuse, though I do not smoke........

https://trinitycoffee.co/

These looked very interesting when posted a couple of months ago. I have one coming which will let me try two methods


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Perhaps dfks tastebuds are shot ?
> 
> Need trained from years of abuse, though I do not smoke........
> 
> ...


That does look quite an interesting product...look forward to hearing your views on it when you get it.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

GCGlasgow said:


> That does look quite an interesting product...look forward to hearing your views on it when you get it.


To be seen in a for sale section near you soon....


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

What about diluting a Mocka pot?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rhys said:


> What about diluting a Mocka pot?


I do that quite often, but I find it a hit/miss affair. Sometimes the coffee is really nice and tasty, and other times perhaps bitter. I guess it is a grinding issue but I used to use my press as my go to for brewed till I smoked the glass


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

h1udd said:


> well dfk kind of said if you dilute espresso then it would make sense to find another drink .... Which I think is kind of stupid, if you like the taste of diluted espresso more than you do another method, then so be it. I think there is s massive difference between an infusion and a diluted under pressure extraction ... Perhaps dfks tastebuds are shot ?


I don't find a big difference in flavour between different brew methods, if there is, it's because you are hitting a different extraction, maybe materials in contact with the brew have an effect. A difference in mouthfeel, clarity, crema, sure. I think you'd have to do some serious & rigorous testing to qualify any statements about taste/preference differences, or whether pressure affects flavour at an equivalent extraction.

That aside, If you want a mugful of coffee, at brewed strength, it is cheaper & less wasteful to just make that, with the least steps & chances to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. If you are making espresso & someone wants a weaker, bigger coffee, it makes sense to dilute a shot down. I do both.

We can't diagnose the state of anyone's tastebuds on an internet forum, best to give benefit of the doubt there.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

MWJB said:


> We can't diagnose the state of anyone's tastebuds on an internet forum, best to give benefit of the doubt there.


Whyever not? That could be a fun thread with close-up tongue selfies, amateur doctoring and all manner of body modification potential.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Missy said:


> Whyever not? That could be a fun thread with close-up tongue selfies, amateur doctoring and all manner of body modification potential.


I'm not showing off but...my tongues enormous, I'm not sure I could fit it into a selfie ;-).


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I smoked the glass


is this some sort of metaphor for a crack pipe?


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

Not sure high I prefer. I find an Americano very different to say an aeropress or a chemex. Both good in their own way. But different totally


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

James811 said:


> Not sure high I prefer. I find an Americano very different to say an aeropress or a chemex. Both good in their own way. But different totally


OK, so what are the parameters for each, what variables have you eliminated? I don't doubt they are tangibly different, but is it because they are inherently different or because you make them that way?


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## AMCD300 (Feb 11, 2016)

jlarkin said:


> I'm not showing off but...my tongues enormous, I'm not sure I could fit it into a selfie ;-).


Depends how long your arms are I suppose...


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## scottgough (Feb 9, 2016)

Isn't some of the pleasure in the making of your drink as well? We all like our espresso machines and have to accept that we enjoy the theatre and process of making espresso probably as much as drinking it. Or is that just me?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I would be interested in seeing the PH readings for a diluted espresso versus a full immersion filter coffee (for a given EY and TDS)

In beer brewing - a full volume mash and an extract brew (malt extract diluted with water) give very different PH readings and mouthfeel and flavour also differ.

Personally I cant ever remember having a coffee which faired better as an americano over a filter , although never having done a side-by-side its difficult to say much more.


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