# Time for a lively discussion



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> I remember reviewing the ECM mechanika III a fine machine for all those considering the likes of an OSCAR or Silvia, this is in a different league. I think BB still have the review on their web site, listed as Mechanika IV, but it was this model with conventional rotary steam and hot water valves rather than the nicer toggle valves. Surprised there is no interest on this quality HX machine.


That is because he forum has changed substantially. there has been a massive influx of new members, who have little knowledge which is fair enough but also do not understand the forum core values. Members put equipment up, hoping it will go to a forum member. The buyer gets a piece of kit that has a historian hopefully well looked after, rather than going on to the Bay of Lies and taking a chance. The seller used to ask approximately what they thought they might get minus fees, representing around 15% off. Nowadays, when people post things the newer members just chuck in ridiculous offers immediately, along the lines of a 'cheeky bid' without knowing the real value in owning a forum owned machine.

That is why this machine is gaining little interest. The newer members all seem to get excited about Sage...I hope this trend stops!

And yes, I am sure there will be lots of people who object to what I have just said....get over it!


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

This forum is now very large on the membership front and as such there are bound to be folks with varying needs and of late I notice more folks who are looking for advice that is less about the search for the perfect cup and perhaps more about making a living from "fast coffee".

I am sure there is room for folks that don't feel the need to become coffee connoisseurs too though that might take a while to get used to in view of the history here.

Live and let live I say and if sellers want to emphasise the history of said gear then all power to them. A curt reply to a "cheeky offer" will I am sure get the point across.

I hope folks take their time and learn too but hey, worse things can happen.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pot kettle black


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Did some people not have this same lively discussion a week or two ago?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You are the master of cheeky bids dfk!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Oh no not this again.

Grumpy forum member cross because he can no longer sell used equipment for the price he paid for it new.

It's the free market. Get over it.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

But dfk leaves it a few days before making a cheeky bid, he's a gentleman cheeky bidder


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## Darenf (Oct 5, 2015)

I can only speak for myself, but I was recommended to come on here by another member as I wished to upgrade my machine and learn for myself by drawing on the huge amount of information available on here.

i have so far enjoyed the forum, found my machine and met a few genuinely nice people.

we all start somewhere and am thankful for the generosity shown to me by some members.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> a gentleman cheeky bidder


That's a lovely turn of phrase


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

People want to sell their stuff, other make offers, thats how it works.

And yea, by your own example its not exactly just new members.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Let us clear this up. The last item I bought, I paid the asking price for (boots jug). The one before that was a Behmor and a Lido. I offered the op £20 less than his asking, and he accepted as the carriage with insurance cost me £15. Then a Mignon I paid the asking price for. The one before that was another grinder I paid the asking price for. If I have put a bid in on something, then it has been after the item has been available to forum members and no one has shown interest. My bid has been neither low nor cheeky, just not the asking price.

Last year I did buy two items for sale. I nicked one and passed it on at the same price to another forum member which meant driving nearly 380 miles on a round trip (unpaid for). The second item that I got was passed to another forum member who does regularly complain about me, even though he has benefitted from my generosity.

So where does this stereotype come from. Everyone has the same chance on here to logon and buy things, or not. If you want to find an example of me putting a cheeky bid in early doors please do.

If you are happy putting your item up for sale and you think your asking price is sensible, then do as I do and state NO OFFERS. That will not stop them mind you but it makes me chuckle


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Is this gumtree


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It's not important


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Third world problems


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Water and food?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Okay, following dfk's "I remember when all this was fields" speech, I would like to put forward an alternative view...

New members are absolutely essential for the forum for a number of reasons.

Firstly, much as I hate to discuss something as crude as money, new members = increased traffic for the forum = increased traffic means Glenn has more to attract new advertisers and keep existing ones = advertisers means revenue = ability to invest in the forum and make it better for all.

If that is not enough...

All forum members were new once upon a time. They arrived here over time, some looking for basic starter advice and some already able to supply it. As the years ticked by, the original newbies improved their understanding and started making better coffee. Some of them stuck around to share their new found knowledge with the next generation of newbie. Its the forum circle of life. I've not been on here that long but I have already seen total beginners from 12 months ago happy to step out of the shadows and share with new members.

The point I am making is that without new members the conversations would be pretty dull and repetitive. They wouldn't get a chance to learn and older members wouldn't get a chance to teach them. There is a theory that you don't truely start to understand something until you try and explain it to someone else!

Re new members buying equipment. I have not seen many forum members looking to downgrade so sellers are relying on newbies starting out to buy their used equipment. There is an argument that much of the stuff sold on here is done so completely unnecessarily from a coffee development point of view, but it does satisfy a certain itch. Sales are restricted to thise with a nominal post count to avoid sale items popping up on random searches and the sales process is well regulated by the mods when it strays from the site rules, usually as a result of ignorance rather than malice.

I have no issue in any member, new or otherwise, placing a "cheeky bid". Let's face it, the boards are full of theads with people congratulating themselves on their "steal" of a purchase from ebay/gumtree etc. Why is this any different?

Come to think of it, why should you expect a premium for some over-polished bit of kit that has been filled with nasty French water and Puly Caffed to within an inch of its life. 

Here endeth the lesson as my supper is ready and are am getting the "can you out your ipad down for one minute" comments.

View attachment 17582


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dylan said:


> Water and food?


Let them drink Lavazza


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> The newer members all seem to get excited about Sage...I hope this trend stops!


 Sorry about that, I didn't realize that we are only allowed to be interested in machines that you like. I'll be sure to run any future posts by you first just to be sure.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Let them drink Lavazza


Nothing wrong with Lavazza Boots


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

mremanxx said:


> Nothing wrong with Lavazza Boots


They make boots as well?









..probably add a bit of taste to their coffee if you drink it out of them


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Rhys said:


> They make boots as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or it's this kind of Lavazza boots http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Brands-A-to-Z/Lavazza/


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jimbocz said:


> Sorry about that, I didn't realize that we are only allowed to be interested in machines that you like. I'll be sure to run any future posts by you first just to be sure.


Not just machines , grinders too ..


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## djedga (Apr 22, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> That is why this machine is gaining little interest. The newer members all seem to get excited about Sage...I hope this trend stops!
> 
> And yes, I am sure there will be lots of people who object to what I have just said....get over it!


Is this the real reason or is it that there is also a limited pool of older members needing to upgrade? There are always less people to buy here than elsewhere but people always have the option to sell elsewhere.

Blaming lack of interest in a good machine on new members is lazy. Apparently older members have also shown a lack of interest... I think most people get the core values and see the benefit of getting a well looked after forum machine for a fair price (sometimes more than fair) much like buying a well looked after car. However...

People in any walk of life can be cheeky, rude or even complete and utter arseholes particularly if they can make or save a buck. It has always happened and will always happen where things are bought and sold. It's no different here but this is in general outweighed by helpful, generous, good spirited people.

re sage I have one. The last thing it does is excite me. It gives me value for money and great coffee. It is the right machine for me at this point in my coffee journey (thoughts elsewhere in the sage section). However I hope to help other sage users or those considering the brand... At some point maybe I'll be in the market for superlative coffee and will be looking at upgrading.

If others are excited by the sage brand then fair play to them and I'm sure you'll educate them as to why they are wrong.

Lastly I don't object to what you say I just disagree.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

There is a point there, older members may have upgraded to a point where sale items would be a downgrade, but would be an aspiration to newer members.


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## djedga (Apr 22, 2015)

Just a case of waiting for someone at the right point with enough knowledge to be dangerously interested! Sometimes that person won't exist..


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

This new member bulls**t really makes me laugh.

When I joined in 2010 this forum was absolutely nothing like what it is now. Almost all the regular posters from those days are gone now. The forum was much more liberal and open and less thing's were taken as gospel. In a way that mimic's lot's of things from the past that were new. The late 60's summer of love or warehouse parties in 89/90 perhaps ( in a weird way admittedly).

Fast forward 2 or 3 years and thing's had changed completely from a coffee perspective. The one thing that stayed the same was the core members friendliness and helpfulness, going out of their way to help people when there was nothing in it for them. People like boots and coffeechap and maybe a dozen others who make this the only forum I've ever really hung around on for more than a year or so.

Jump to today and it's all change again with the mood of the forum in the geeky coffee appreciation sense, but again there's the core doing their thing to help and be positive. The difference now and the problem, if in fact there is a problem, is that there's also a number of people who seem to have a lot of time on their hands and spend a lot of that time on this forum but unfortunately they're not the sort of people who are positive and upbeat in their personality but are in fact quite bitter and resentful of the world in general. They bring the forum down with this unhappy outlook just as I'm sure they turn off real people in their real lives. Sometimes they create interesting banter and it's a laugh, other times it's quite sad because I see the bitterness and negativity and don't really know if it's a joke or not so because I've only ever met a couple of people off this forum ( who, by the way are nothing like these people), I get a mental picture of an old man with no friends or wife or anyone who really cares, because who would?

Now I'm not saying for second that this is the case, just the way it comes across when all you see is words on a screen. I'm also not in any way directing this at the OP. It's just something I think people can think about maybe.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

cold war kid said:


> This new member bulls**t really makes me laugh.
> 
> When I joined in 2010 this forum was absolutely nothing like what it is now. Almost all the regular posters from those days are gone now. The forum was much more liberal and open and less thing's were taken as gospel. In a way that mimic's lot's of things from the past that were new. The late 60's summer of love or warehouse parties in 89/90 perhaps ( in a weird way admittedly).
> 
> ...


This is a forum....you are perfectly entitled to say anything you like, as is any member. The nice thing about opinion,is it is not law and will not be ruled upon therefore all opinion is equally valid.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I feel this anti new members bee in your bonnet may stem from the fact you used to feel like a big fish in a small pond: now the pond has got bigger you are realising your not such a big fish after all, perhaps not even a fish.

this smacks of attention seeking to me,,, again


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> This is a forum....you are perfectly entitled to say anything you like, as is any member. The nice thing about opinion,is it is not law and will not be ruled upon therefore all opinion is equally valid.


argumentum ad temperantium


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## monkey66 (Aug 8, 2014)

"Have no fear of atomic energy because none of us can stop a' the time" ...Bob Marley.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

cold war kid said:


> This new member bulls**t really makes me laugh.
> 
> When I joined in 2010 this forum was absolutely nothing like what it is now. Almost all the regular posters from those days are gone now. The forum was much more liberal and open and less thing's were taken as gospel. In a way that mimic's lot's of things from the past that were new. The late 60's summer of love or warehouse parties in 89/90 perhaps ( in a weird way admittedly).
> 
> ...


Name and shame


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Name and shame


We don't do that here, Jeebsy.

We don't need to


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Old man ... No wife ... On the upside imagine all the coffee gadgets you could put in the kitchen


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

h1udd said:


> Old man ... No wife ... On the upside imagine all the coffee gadgets you could put in the kitchen


Sounds like Santa Claus


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Membership length has no correlation to a member's soundness, I'd suggest. In the last year or so we've had some great people join who really contribute to things in a positive way and help new members too.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

jonc said:


> Membership length has no correlation to a member's soundness, I'd suggest. .


I think I'm proof of that.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Spazbarista said:


> I think I'm proof of that.


Me too.


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## jkb89 (Dec 10, 2014)

Doesn't seem to be much discussion here, very much a one way street me thinks.



dfk41 said:


> The newer members all seem to get excited about Sage...I hope this trend stops!
> 
> And yes, I am sure there will be lots of people who object to what I have just said....get over it!


I'm relatively new to the coffee world, and didn't really have the budget for anything other than a Classic when I started. Now I'm looking to upgrade and have absolutely 0 interest in a Sage... My $0.02. Look at me, being an outlier.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

jonc said:


> Me too.


Just don't mention the war


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

jonc said:


> Membership length has no correlation to a member's soundness, I'd suggest. In the last year or so we've had some great people join who really contribute to things in a positive way and help new members too.


good old @Snakehips


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Never seen so many contradictions in an opening post before...

Hope this thread goes way off topic.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm really confused as to what Sage has to do with anything... they are producing some of the best machines in the 'entry level' price bracket at the moment, and their top end machines are used and appriciated by some of the most experienced members here... Why is Sage a byword for 'dont know their arse from their elbow'?


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## Mouse (Feb 28, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> This is a forum....you are perfectly entitled to say anything you like, as is any member. The nice thing about opinion,is it is not law and will not be ruled upon therefore all opinion is equally valid.


In that case..









All in jest here..


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Never seen so many contradictions in an opening post before...
> 
> Hope this thread goes way off topic.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> This is a forum....you are perfectly entitled to say anything you like, as is any member. The nice thing about opinion,is it is not law and will not be ruled upon therefore all opinion is equally valid.


This isn't reddit.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I got a puncture on the way to work this morning.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I got a puncture on the way to work this morning.


fate hey jeebsy?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> fate hey jeebsy?


Only if you believe in that guff


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bellow is the Pre watershed version - one of the worst script changes by ITV ever - Harry Calaghan doctored quote

"Opinions are like air conditioniners everybody has them "









This place brings both the best and the worst out in me , and not always in the percentages that i would like .....

I have never owned a top hat though ....


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> good old @Snakehips


Creep !

Are you just trying to butter me up so's I'll send you a *2nd ! * weighing plate ?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Snakehips said:


> Creep !
> 
> Are you just trying to butter me up so's I'll send you a *2nd ! * weighing plate ?


That is exactly what I'm doing!!!

You good looking guy you!!!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> That is exactly what I'm doing!!!
> 
> You good looking guy you!!!


I admire your honesty and your judgement.

A *2nd ! *plate will be in the post shortly.

PS. we have to stop meeting like this.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Snakehips said:


> I admire your honesty and your judgement.
> 
> A *2nd ! *plate will be in the post shortly.
> 
> PS. we have to stop meeting like this.


My hero


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Ok, mostly I am happy with this forum ...... but sometimes I am just a little disappointed with its members.

Really I would expect more from people that should be dosed up on caffeine .. you should be reaching certain conclusions quicker than other forums due to the stimulus of espresso .... but. ..... and its a big but

we are on page 6 now .... and for a "lively discussion" we haven't reached the part where is suggested that "paying" members have more say than those that dont support the site OR that Godwins Law has been invoked at the Moderators running of the site.

really guys, this is basic "toys out of pram stuff" ... and should have been covered in the 1st 3 pages


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

@froggystyle Likin' the new avatar.

Was never keen on the old one. In fact it was scary........ a la Spatz

Anyway, we digress........... time for more lively discussion.

Why did the chicken cross the road?


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Why did the chicken cross the road?


is it something to do with Sage machines ?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

To buy a sage machine off a forum member?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Why did the chicken cross the road?


To avoid the low ball thrown by a noob


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Why did the chicken cross the road?



froggystyle said:


> To buy a sage machine off a forum member?


Would that be single or dual broiler ?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

How did this end up back on tortured chicken/egg puns?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Snakehips said:


> Why did the chicken cross the road?
> 
> Would that be single or dual broiler ?


Any, as long as said chicken purchased it after an early cheeky bid!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)




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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Anyway, we digress........... time for more lively discussion.
> 
> Why did the chicken cross the road?





h1udd said:


> is it something to do with Sage machines ?





froggystyle said:


> To buy a sage machine off a forum member?





Fevmeister said:


> View attachment 17599


Why did the chicken want a Sage espresso machine?

Because she was having problems with her brood !

Edit: That's it from me now. I'm off to do something useful. ( Post Fev's 2nd! plate )


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)




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## djedga (Apr 22, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Why did the chicken want a Sage espresso machine?
> 
> Because she was having problems with her brood !
> 
> Edit: That's it from me now. I'm off to do something useful. ( Post Fev's 2nd! plate )


This thread has clearly been deliberately steered down this route so you can use that gag!

ps It's because Heston told her it was the "nest"!


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## Hairy_Hogg (Jul 23, 2015)

Chicken and Eggs and a Newbie - Triple whammy









And coffee and latte art so in the spirit of the forum as well


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Rhys said:


>


Point taken. I think maybe I'll lay low for a while?


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## robashton (May 9, 2015)

I came for the drama and stayed for the puns


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

NickdeBug said:


> How did this end up back on tortured chicken/egg puns?


because the german gags get removed


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> because the german gags get removed


This is a forum I thought you could say anything you damn well pleased?


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Dylan said:


> This is a forum I thought you could say anything you damn well pleased?


Please, don't let's get heavy again as I can't think of anymore chicken puns to act as a diversion.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> because the german gags get removed


There is a (Siegfried) line that shall not be crossed


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

@ jeebsy Empfingen sie meine private meldung gestern?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Snakehips said:


> Please, don't let's get heavy again as I can't think of anymore chicken puns to act as a diversion.


Certainly wasn't meant to be "heavy", ahh well.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Dylan said:


> Certainly wasn't meant to be "heavy", ahh well.


Certainly wasn't meant to be taken too seriously, ahh well.









However, whatever happens............


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

we love you snakehips we do

we love you snakehips we do


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> we love you snakehips we do
> 
> we love you snakehips we do


Give over! You're making me blush.....


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You pair need to get a room.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

froggystyle said:


> You pair need to get a room.


LOL !!!!

For the record... he started it.

PS Anywhere nice you can suggest?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> You pair need to get a room.


Our Len knows a nice spot


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Long way from trevor macdoughnut days!

ahh tiswas.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

The Phantom Flan Flinger and a cage full of parents.

Now that was tv!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I might as well just post a picture of my bawbag as post in this nonsense thread.

Who'd like to see it?


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

I just spent 8 days in Italy and I assure you that there is something very wrong with Lavazza - it tastes of @rse. Although it is better than Kimbo. I'm sure Kimbo use cigarette ash in their blend.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> I might as well just post a picture of my bawbag as post in this nonsense thread.
> 
> Who'd like to see it?


Didn't know you were Scottish.

Seeing another mans bawbag is never good!


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Spazbarista said:


> Who'd like to see it?


If you are going to post it, it needs to be coffee related somehow


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Its sort of coffee coloured. Will that do?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

h1udd said:


> If you are going to post it, it needs to be coffee related somehow


Near his first crack?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Rhys that is the best comment on this thread thus far! You win the internet.


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## djedga (Apr 22, 2015)




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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Long way from trevor macdoughnut days!
> 
> ahh tiswas.


.....and his last funny Joke. Oooooooooooaaaakaaaaay!!!!

Sorry Len!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

I love how off topic this has gone


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> I love how off topic this has gone


Was it ever on topic?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

What was the topic


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> What was the topic


Nutty?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> What was the topic


Something to do with spaz and his knackers? I think? Not sure really


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

"Squirrel [email protected] in every bite" or at least that's what we used to say about Topic when ah wuz a lad.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I havent had a topic for YEARS, i really fancy one now


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah but have you seen how *small* they are? A chocolate bar for the discerning gentleman if ever there was one. I expect to see tasting notes for medium-dark coffee including the word Topic from now on.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> Yeah but have you seen how *small* they are? *A chocolate bar for the discerning gentlema*n if ever there was one. I expect to see tasting notes for medium-dark coffee including the word Topic from now on.


Youve managed to sell me on the idea now. I simply must get one today.

I cant comment on their diminishing size as I try to avoid chocolate,Ive only just repaired all the garden seats after I sat on them and broke them all.

Seats, like chocolate bars aren't made like they used to be


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Let's just agree a kit Kat in the fridge is the best chocolate bar


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I used to like a* cabana* for its tropical magic


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh I'd forgotten all about Cabana! They stood aloof from other confectionery, much more left-field than Topic. Didnt they have pineapple, coconut and cherry in a sort of caramel and a chocolate coating? Off to google myself down memory lane...

Apparently I was wrong about the pineapple but 'close enough for government work' as we used to say at GEC.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I had a Walnut Whip yesterday.

I bit the top off and rimmed it.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Uuurgh you filth-monger!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Spazbarista said:


> I had a Walnut Whip yesterday.
> 
> I bit the top off and rimmed it.


Is there any other way?


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Where did you find a walnut whip ??? .. They are seriously old school arnt they


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Local shop for local people.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

asda box of 3 for 99p


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Wasn't topic the one with spider eggs in it that time?


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Spazbarista said:


> Its sort of coffee coloured. Will that do?


Topic.......

....... Hazelnuts !!

Jeez ..........we're not back to Spaz's bawbag again are we?


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