# Newbie with a Gaggia Classic



## paulashy (Jul 28, 2018)

Hi All,

New to the forum so apologies if all this has been asked before.

Picked myself up a second hand Gaggia Classic around 6/7 weeks ago and have been running it with a Krups GVX231 Grinder. Gave the machine a full strip down and clean, back flush using cafiza and replaced the main seal.

With this setup & using fresh local roasted beans I managed to get an ok espresso most of the time with some a lot better than others but could never get consistency even using the same settings. With the standard steam wand I found I could never get the milk to texturise properly.

After doing some research I did the following mods to try and help get better consistency and an all round better espresso,latte or cappuccino:

Edesia Espress Bottomless PF

Rancillio Silvia Steam Wand

OPV Tune to 9 bar

I have been using the above mods for the last few weeks but am still struggling to get any good results. I found the bottomless PF to spit so after more research started using the WDT method with a cocktail stick which seems to have made this better but not perfect. Iv heard that a Bottomless PF will highlight any issues with technique which was part of the reason I upgrade to help improve my technique but find im struggling to get a good flow through the PF with caramel like coffee and a good Crema. I'm using the finest setting on my grinder but still seem to be a lot worse than the standard pressurised PF.

After giving you the background info I guess my questions are:

Would I be better going back to my pressurised PF or sticking it out with the bottomless. If so any tips for improvements using the bottomless PF? I'm guessing it is my skills that are letting me down? Could a better grinder help?

With the new steam wand I have a lot more control over texturising the milk but and struggling to get the milk to properly texturise before it get very hot so am worried about burning the milk. Any tips would be great?

Was the OVP Tune a mistake with the Bottomless PF?

I'm guessing it just takes time to learn but am keen for any advice people can give.

Thanks

Paul


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

You're good at DIY and you are making the right moves. Bottomless PF is fine with unpressurised basket at 9 or 10 bar.

What you need now is a really good grinder to give you nice fluffy grinds with a minimum of clumping. Grinders basically come in two kinds - domestic and commercial. If you want something small and neat, search all the threads on the Niche grinder which is due out soon. If you're OK with a commercial size grinder, and can swap out a doser for some kind of DIY funnel, then you should be able to get a Mazzer Super Jolly (64mm burrs) for £150 or a little more, and there are plenty about. If you're serious about your coffee I would go straight for a Mazzer Major with the 83mm burrs - one of the so-called "Titans". These are good value at £200-250 with a doser (eBay), maybe a little more from somebody reliable like on the for sale ads here.

I've been on this journey myself - in January I was still using Nespresso pods..... Seems a long time ago. I found the step up from SJ to Major worth it for taste in the cup. For single dosing you don't need the hopper. Just weigh the beans before grinding and use a lens blower to puff out the remaining grinds from the chamber and chute while the grinder is running so you eliminate retention issues (best solution I've found).


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## paulashy (Jul 28, 2018)

les24preludes said:


> You're good at DIY and you are making the right moves. Bottomless PF is fine with unpressurised basket at 9 or 10 bar.
> 
> What you need now is a really good grinder to give you nice fluffy grinds with a minimum of clumping. Grinders basically come in two kinds - domestic and commercial. If you want something small and neat, search all the threads on the Niche grinder which is due out soon. If you're OK with a commercial size grinder, and can swap out a doser for some kind of DIY funnel, then you should be able to get a Mazzer Super Jolly (64mm burrs) for £150 or a little more, and there are plenty about. If you're serious about your coffee I would go straight for a Mazzer Major with the 83mm burrs - one of the so-called "Titans". These are good value at £200-250 with a doser (eBay), maybe a little more from somebody reliable like on the for sale ads here.
> 
> I've been on this journey myself - in January I was still using Nespresso pods..... Seems a long time ago. I found the step up from SJ to Major worth it for taste in the cup. For single dosing you don't need the hopper. Just weigh the beans before grinding and use a lens blower to puff out the remaining grinds from the chamber and chute while the grinder is running so you eliminate retention issues (best solution I've found).


Thanks for the reply, it's good to get advice from someone who has been in the same position as I am now.

will have a look into the grinders you suggest and see what my budget allows.

What's your thoughts on the classics steam wand?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Paul, you are moving in the right direction and it does take some time to get everything to come together.

As les said, get yourself a better grinder, without a decent grinder you will continually struggle.

The bottomless P/F does not take prisoners, if your preparation is not good the bottomless will show it, persevere with the WDT as this will help until you get a better grinder (even then with some coffee's WDT is necassary)

Steaming- just insert the tip just under the surface and open the valve fully, get the air in as quickly as possible then raise the jug to lower the tip to get the milk swirling and combining.


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## Gordonac (Dec 12, 2014)

Hi Paul, I'm pretty much in the same position as you, with all the mods. I fitted the Silvia steam wand and found it to be much better. It takes some practice to get the swirl right. Maybe there is local barista course you could go on? I know that Small Batch, in Brighton, do a home barista workshop that would take you through creating the microfoam. But also, I find the steam to run out of pressure quite quickly which makes it a lot harder to get the milk swirling in order to create the foam. From my understanding, it seems the PID is a good mod to help improve the steam as well as shot temperature.

But from all the talk on here, I think the grinder will make the biggest difference to the coffee. I have a Rancilio Rocky, which I've found to be good intro burr grinder - I bought it new for about £220 I think. There's quite a big choice of grinders, but I'm veering towards a Mazzer Major at the moment as there seems to be a lot support for it on here. Although, this Niche one looks interesting!


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## paulashy (Jul 28, 2018)

Thanks for the reply's glad I'm heading in the right direction and the advice is greatly appreciated.

Gordan I'm not sure what you mean about the PID mod?

It's obvious from your reply's that my grinder is the current draw back (as well as improving my skills) the only reason I didn't go for a more expensive grinder at the time was I had no good advice on which grinder to buy and didn't want to just buy expensive things then not have a clue what I'm doing with it and look like an "all the gear no idea" type of guy.

Looks like there here is lots of knowledgeable people on the forum so will get reading and see what the budget will allow in regards to upgrading my grinder.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

It might be worth seeing who is local to you that's prepared to help by demonstrating using their grinder. They could grind some of your beans to show the sort of changes that it could make.


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## Gordonac (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm not sure I can clearly explain it, (please correct any of my misunderstandings) but my understanding of it is that you improve the speed and consistency of the way the boiler maintains its temperature. So, with the PID device you can dial in what temperature you want the boiler to always be at, and it will keep it there far more accurately than how the gaggia currently maintains it. I've read that this is good for steam as it maintains a better pressure for frothing your milk and good for the espresso shot as it maintains a better temp when pouring the espresso. I don't think it will be a good substitute for some of the better machines, but for around £100 (I think there is a member that does it?) it's better than spending £1000 on some of these higher end machines.

But I think it would be best saving and getting a better grinder. If I had known about getting a second Mazzer Super jolly before the Rocky I reckon I would have tried to find a decent second hand one of those. @DavecUK had an article for things to consider when buying a second hand prosumer espresso machine, which had good points to consider even for a grinder. Maybe he has one for grinders?

It's the first post on the For sale forum, but here's the link https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28406-GUIDE-Buying-a-used-prosumer-espresso-machine


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## Gordonac (Dec 12, 2014)

AndyDClements said:


> It might be worth seeing who is local to you that's prepared to help by demonstrating using their grinder. They could grind some of your beans to show the sort of changes that it could make.


Yea a local roasters did that with me and it was amazing to see the difference the grind could make! You could have the best beans in the world, roasted beautifully, but it will be nothing if you can't grind them properly! That's what frustrates me in some cafes who claim to have freshly roasted amazing organic beans, all the marketing chat, but you watch the espresso shot gush out from the spout!


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

@Gordonac pretty much sums up what a PID does.

Gaggia uses old tech which is a bi-metalic strip (metal strip that bends with heat) to get the boiler to the "right"temperature. These things are designed to switch on at one temperature and switch off at another (else it would be forever switching on and off). That difference is quite a lot.

A PID uses a modern temperature probe and learns about the boiler (it learns what temperature to turn off the heater to get to the desired end result temperature. A bit like we learn to apply car brakes before we reach the destination).

PIDs can do just the water for coffee (the most essential one), just the steam or both (best).

Using a PID you'll get a much more predictable coffee because the water will be at (or near enough) the same temperature each time. There are methods to get a more predictable temperature without using a PID (temperature surfing) but that will be more needing of patience.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

paulashy said:


> Thanks for the reply's glad I'm heading in the right direction and the advice is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Gordan I'm not sure what you mean about the PID mod?
> 
> ...


Hi,

The PID mod is basically replaces the mechanical thermostats with electronics to remove the need to temp surf to hit your target brew temp.

While you could source the parta for a bit less, the MrShades kit is worth the extra for the copious instructions alone as well as the near legendary after sales support he supplies.


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## paulashy (Jul 28, 2018)

Thanks for explaining PID will be looking into the Mrshades kit for sure.

their is a local roster that offers it but I enquired a few weeks ago and still haven't heard back.

I think there is a shop near me (bury) that offers lessons too so maybe I'll contact them too.


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## paulashy (Jul 28, 2018)

Gordan did you go for the auto or timer version of the super jolly?


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## Stu (Jan 3, 2018)

As others have said, you are getting there but the grinder is your biggest problem. Without a consistent grind down to the right level of fineness needed by the Gaggia, you will struggle to get a good flow through.

As for the wand... I myself used to think it was useless and the reason my frothing was crap, but realistically I'd say it breaks down as approx 80% the user technique, 10% the Gaggia Classic steaming ability, and 10% the wand used.

A PID and tweaking of the thermostats can improve the steaming quality and changing the wand will make it better/easier, however the technique is by far the most important to learn to produce great microfoam, and the little tricks that make the Gaggia perform better.

I've had my machine since January and only really in the last month have I got to a point where I can produce good steamed milk, still using the original paranello wand as I haven't upgraded yet.

Watch lots of YouTube videos on barista technique of milk steaming and practice, practice, practice!

Here is the technique I use, which may help you...

When I finish a shot, I empty the pf, run the pump for a couple of seconds to clear the screen, then pump off and steam on.

I immediately open the steam knob and allow any water to dribble out until clear, then close up the knob and wait for the ready light.

Once ready, I'll open the steam knob again to blast out water with steam and close fairly quickly, doing this a couple of times.

Then I'll get my milk pitcher from the freezer, where it has been chilling between use and very cold. I'll wipe out any frost then pour in whole milk slowly to a good level... 10-12oz for my 20oz pitcher. Pour slowly to avoid large bubbles.

With a thermometer in the pitcher I'll get ready to steam but wait until the ready light has just clicked off (i.e. heating again). This may take a couple more purges of steam from you to get it to activate the heater.

Now, once it has been heating for a number of seconds, start steaming BEFORE the ready light comes on again (so it's still heating). This will take a bit of trial and error to get it right as you want to finish steaming not long after the light comes back on. For my 1300W machine, it's around 10 seconds from light going out.

Ok, steaming - you want the tip just under the surface at first, with the pitcher upright, producing occassional characteristic 'ripping paper' sounds (see YouTube vids). Try not to expose it too close to the surface as you'll just get frothy very large bubbles and a loud froth sound.

Once the pitcher slightly warms, around 20°C, lift the pitcher up to submerge the wand to almost the bottom, at an angle of about 45° by tilting the pitcher. You should fairly quickly start to see a swirling motion around the whole pitcher. You want to keep this going for as long as possible, and keep whirlpooling the milk as this will blend in the slightly larger bubbles.

Keep steaming like this until you hit a temperature of about 60°C. This is when I find the small Gaggia boiler tends to run out on me anyway (with 10-12oz of milk). You'll probably have to tilt the pitcher back up to a slightly shallower angle as the milk expands to avoid it spilling over... just try to keep the swirl going at all times.

You'll notice that the temperature still rises slightly after you finish whilst it equalises, so even though you stopped at 60°C, you'll end up close to the recommended 65°C at the end (this depends on the thermometer quality... if it rises dramatically, you'll have to stop earlier to account for this)

I'll leave the milk for a moment whilst I blast out the wand and wipe it all clean.

Now, tap the pitcher hard on the counter top one or two times to push up any large bubbles, then holding the handle, swirl the milk pitcher by hand as fast as you can without letting it spill over. This combines the top foam into the frothed milk to produce a unified smooth consistency. Do this any time you break pouring (i.e. if splitting to two cups)

Now you should be ready to pour...

Tilt the cup of espresso and swirl pour the milk in at a slow rate to avoid breaking up the crema. You can then go in close with the milk and do some late art or just pour in!

Hope that helps, just trying to offer some advice from a fellow amateur!

The problem I find with the paranello wand is the air inlets at the top. They need to be covered when you move to the second stage frothing (swirling), else all it'll do is introduce more bubbles and ruin everything. Thus, it is vital to get the level right for your particular pitcher. As mentioned it's 10-12 oz for my 20oz. If I wanted less milk, I'd have to get a smaller pitcher or just waste some as you just cannot get the wand to perform unless covered. This is where a wand upgrade can help as you are not limited by the amount you have to have.

I guess a video of all that in action would help a lot... I'll see what I can do.


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## paulashy (Jul 28, 2018)

Stu said:


> As others have said, you are getting there but the grinder is your biggest problem. Without a consistent grind down to the right level of fineness needed by the Gaggia, you will struggle to get a good flow through.
> 
> As for the wand... I myself used to think it was useless and the reason my frothing was crap, but realistically I'd say it breaks down as approx 80% the user technique, 10% the Gaggia Classic steaming ability, and 10% the wand used.
> 
> ...


Hi Stu,

thanks for such an in-depth guide Iv certainly learnt a few things for reading your post.

Will try try out a few things mentioned above and get practicing.

Iv booked on a local home Barista course so hopefully that's also going to help me.

Thanks


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

The specific heat capacity of a steel jug isn't much so chilling the jug doesn't really do much - but then it can't really hurt either. When I had a Classic it already had the Auber Instruments PID and Silvia wand so I was lucky. The steaming power of the Classic is limited to a small jug really, but that in itself can be helpful as it gives you more time to combine the milk and get your milk spinning and silky. When I upgraded to the R58 I had to completely relearn steaming. But one thing is for sure, any kind of plastic steam attachment (panarello) will just cause big bubbles, big troubles to paraphrase the bubble gum advert from my youth. I agree that the likely issue of your shots not being consistent is the grinder, getting a small comercial (or Mignon, SJ etc) will definitely help with consistency as well as depth of flavour. It does just take time, especially the steaming and basket prep. Hang in there!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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