# Grinders, what do you get for your money?



## coffeechap

In light of the current trend for people going after better grinders and upgrading their grinders I thought I would put together a thread on what people are actually getting for their money.

Firstly let's examine what people actually want from their grinders. I will break this down into various areas and attempt to answer some of the common questions that get asked.

1. Grind quality

2. Retention/ single dosing

3. Doser or Doserless

4. New or second hand

Grind quality

So what does this actually mean? in my opinion it equates to the consistency of the grind i.e. the amount of fine grinds in a given dose and the particle size and eveness. Entry level grinders that are referred to on here i.e. the MC2, mignon, vario will give you a different quality of grind compared to the next level up i.e. mazzer sj, eureka zenith, brassilia rr55 etc or the next level up mazzer royal, mazzer major, eureka mdl, la cimbali magnum etc and again to the "titan class grinders (most expensive) Compak r120, mahlkonig ek43, mazzer robur, eureka mythos, compak k10 and hg1 etc.

In general the bigger the burr size the better the quality of the grind and in general the slower the spin speed the better, so the smaller grinders with smaller motors have to spin much faster (hotter) in order to grind beans evenly, whereas the bigger motors that drive the bigger burr sets have the torque to grind at slower speeds and thus tend to treat the coffee kinder! In my experince the bigger grinders produce a much more consistent grind and the results are immediately apparent in the cup especially with espresso. A mazzer royal (83mm burrs 800 rpm) releases much more complexity in the cup than a mazzer super jolly (64mm burrs 1400 rpm), so you get what you pay for as the bigger the grinder the more they cost, a eureka mignon is £280, Zenith £500, mythos £2000 ek43 £1920, (new prices). Most members that have moved up in the size of their grinders have noticed significant improvements in the resulting cup and I feel as a community we understand the inherent benefits of getting the best grind quality we can afford!

Retention and single dosing

As we tend to just make one of two coffees, most of us prefer to have the ability to weigh the beans in at the start and get out roughly what we put in, however i the world of grinders there are very few that will give you an output very close to the input without modification (compak r120, EK43, HG1, versalab, Pharos, hausgrind) so we have to either consider modifying our grinders or accepting that we might waste a little in the process of making our coffee. On demand grinders like the eureka zenith, brassilia rr55, mazzer electronic versions or even the big conicals like the compak e10 WILL retain coffee in the grind path and also need a weight of bean to get the functions to work (accurate dosing) and to get the best grind quality, so a sacrifice has to be made if you are considering one of these type of grinders.

This retention is largely due to path that the grinds have to follow. Grinder design has not evolved much over the past 30 years, most grinders have a flat grind path whereby the ground coffee is pushed out of the exit shute by the coffee coming along afterwards and as a result there will be coffee that will go stale, remaining in that path. Now the bigger the grinder the more retention, especially if you go up to the conical grinders, the grinders with the least retention have a more vertical grind path i.e. the ek43 or eureka mythos (45 degree), however if you are prepared to carryout modifications to your grinder you can create zero retention grinders through the use of lens hoods, sweep clean mechs etc, but these will tend to be dosered grinders.

Doser or Doserless

The convenience of pressing a button and having a lovely fluffy mound of coffee in your basket comes at a price. As mentioned before, one cost is retention, but the other cost is the extra money you have to pay for the delivery system of these grinders. Electronic doserless grinders cost more money than dosered equivalents either new or second hand, but are more convenient to use, in a busy environment the repeatability of pressing a button and having a portion close to your desired dose is invaluable, but is it so important in the home? I like using my robur as it is amazing grind quality (paramount for me personally) is quick and mess free, however I have to put up with 30grams of retention!!!! the equivalent dosered version has a lot less retention and cost a hell of a lot less to buy (especially second-hand) it can also have a timer added to it and sweep clean modifications done, it requires a little more effort but in the long term would cost you less (due to wasted stale coffee). So you have a choice, if you want to single dose (get out what you put in) you need to spend a lot of money or modify a dosered grinder which leads me onto my final point.

New or second hand

Buying a new grinder comes with its benefits, you get a warranty and ergo piece of mind, you get something that you wont have to clean or sort out, if you buy an on demand grinder you probably wont have to do any modifications as you would have already accepted the points above, however it will cost you twice as much(in most cases) than buying a used or reconditioned grinder. For the same money you spend on a brand new grinder you can get a much better used grinder, I will use a grinder i currently have as an example. For £1000 I could by a mazzer major electronic or a compak e8 (just) or an hg1 hand grinder all decent grinders in their own right, however for £800 I bought a used Versalab (£2000 new) which is zero retention, amazing grind consistency small and compact and beautiful looking (IMO). It knocks spots off all those other grinders (including the HG1). If I take this to the other end of the spectrum, for £375 I could buy a brand new vario, or I could buy a used and modified mazzer major or a brassilia rr55OD at a stretch I could find a dirty mythos ( i found one for £250 once) and spend some time bringing it back to perfect, all of which knock spots of the vario, however I will take a risk on having a warranty, but then if a commercial grinder is working perfectly the likelihood is it will continue to do so for many more years in a home environment.

At the end of the day it is entirely up to you, but my advice is do your research, don't jump into a deal because others tell you to, get some hands on with a grinder if you can, get the best that you can afford and enjoy the coffee you make with it!


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## welshrarebit

Very informative and useful post, thanks for putting the time into making this.


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## Jason1wood

Great advice and write up CC, I'm sure this will be a massive help to the newbies thinking about upgrading.


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## The Systemic Kid

Excellent resource Dave. Should be archived as a forum resource as an article.


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## c_squared

Great write up CC!


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## Xpenno

Very nice! Really useful info in here.


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## Thecatlinux

Very informative CC , what mid level grinder would you recommend for brewed coffee? Would it be different to a mid level grinder for espresso ?


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## coffeechap

I would recommend a santos grinder for brewed coffee, however price is going up on these as people are hacking them for EK43 bases


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## Nimble Motionists

How much would a Santos usually go for second-hand?


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## drude

Very useful post Dave - thanks


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## 4515

Really useful write up coffee dude


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## shrink

Question, why would a doser robur have less retention than the electronic version. Aren't they identical internally and exit the burr chamber via the exact same chute. If I'm not mistaken, the robur has no wire mesh etc to keep grounds back, so I can't get my head around the doserless one retaining more?


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## coffeechap

You can almost single dose a robur not a robur e as the electronics on the robur e mean than you have to have weight of beans on them to make them work as they should, you can then get a lens hood on the input chamber and clear more cofee through, if you let the robur doser run and keep pushing down on the lens hood you can get rid of a lot more of the grinds and thus waste less coffee. It is pointless doing this on an OD robur as the whole ethos is portion control and speed, hope this helps. oh and the robur e has a wire mesh which does keep the grinds back but the doser version does not!!


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## Neill

Thanks cc, great write up.


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## shrink

There goes my wish to ever have a robur-e then









I am getting slightly sick of having a doser grinder haha, I miss just flushing out a few grams at start of day on the quamar and then letting the electronics handle the rest.


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## urbanbumpkin

Great concise write up Dave. Great guide to grinder buying.


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## Wobin19

Nice work, thank you very much cc, very useful. I love the look of those Versalabs, the size is makes it a very attractive proposition at £800. Shame they seem as rare as rocking horse poo second hand.


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## coffeechap

I really love the versalab so much so that it will probably be one grinder that will stay me for good, unless something else as compact and great looking as that comes along!!


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## jeebsy

coffeechap said:


> I would recommend a santos grinder for brewed coffee, however price is going up on these as people are hacking them for EK43 bases


What's the going rate for a santos?


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## coffeechap

ha ha said an ek43 owner!!!!!!


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## coffeechap

I used to be able to pick them up for nowt, now you are looking at around £200 minimum for them in crap condition.


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## jeebsy

I just want the base...


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## DannyMontez

That was really useful and it's answered a question I was going to ask! Instead of buying a new Mignon what could I get second hand for around the same price? (say up to £300)


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## Hoffmonkey

I just got a bit of a semi when I saw pics of the Versalab.


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## Mrboots2u

Hoffmonkey said:


> I just got a bit of a semi when I saw pics of the Versalab.


Errrrr...

Mental note to Coffechap don't invite Hoff to see your grinder ......


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## urbanbumpkin

Or at least keep them covered in polythene.


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## Charliej

And certainly don't let him put any part of his anatomy in a running grinder !!


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## Terranova

Hello everybody, Very informative, but burr size does not correlate 1 to 1 with grind quality.I doubt that a HG One would be less good when using a 68 burr set.Also the spin speed does not effect the grind heat at home use, a good example would be the Mahlkönig K30 which is even used in commercial setups.You can easy find grinders from the same manufactor (same model) giving you a different grind quality i.e a different gap size between your grind setting and zero point (which is the best way to compare the alignment, thread play)The main reasons for it is cheap China production of different parts and the wearing of the tools and how long they use that specific tool till they change it when machining the parts, it is a compromise between built quality and saving money.Another important point regarding single dosing is, you will not get close to the extraction yield with a conical grinder when single dosing vs filled hopper i.e. Compak K10, Robur, Nino and even a HG One will not compensate it by running at slower speeds.The consistency of the Versalab´s do also vary because of the slightly underpowered 110W motor which drops down in speed by up to 30% when grinding, in particular light roast, also here the biggest factor in grind quality is "alignment" for the outcome in the cup.My EK 43 got 2-3 g of retention which remains inside the burr chamber and for me the "uniform" grind size only works for light roasts and longer shots.Medium and dark roasts taste overextracted (IMHO) and ristrettos are far away from being possible with this grinder, maybe it´s just mine, but nothing was out of alignment, not radial nor axial.At the end, you are totally right with "you get what you pay for", because alignment is the highest cost factor and the bling comes next.Have a great weekendFrank


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## The Systemic Kid

How much coffee have you put through your EK, Frank?


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## garydyke1

Terranova said:


> My EK 43 got 2-3 g of retention which remains inside the burr chamber and for me the "uniform" grind size only works for light roasts and longer shots.Medium and dark roasts taste overextracted (IMHO) and ristrettos are far away from being possible with this grinder, maybe it´s just mine, but nothing was out of alignment, not radial nor axial.


Hey Frank, did you try Turkish burrs on yours?

I am in agreement that the EK's 'amazing' zone is much longer, higher extraction shots.


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## Thecatlinux

I would have to agree on the points you have raised and i believe there is a great deal of validity in your post about alignment. However i think the original ops post was not to display any prowess of grinder knowledge and the ins and out of grinder technology . I thing it was a general summary of the differences of grinder technology and to point out the time old formulae of cost/quality and some of the reasons why spending more money on a grinder should make your journey easier and or improve the quality of the end result. Ultimately at the end of the day there are plenty of users on this forum with experience of varying types of grinders and anyone considering buying would only have to ask and I am sure the forum community will be quite happy to impart impartial real life experiences with said machinery.

Very interesting post about alignment and burr sizes perhaps a new thread ?


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## Terranova

Sorry, I just intervened because of the "quality criterium" regarding burr size.

For people looking at a new grinder, you are totally right. It is a great help.

I have an older EK43, tried the original burrs (coffee) and bought a spare set (also coffee for a mere 480€)









The new one has been seasoned in by nearly a kg raw rice and some kg coffee beans, so that should be ok.

Never tried the turkish burrs though.

Also I did not want to say, that your coffee does not taste good when using a conical grinder and single dosing, just that the result in the cup will be better when using a full bean hopper.

The Versalab is for me the only grinder which is totally independent of pressure from above / filled bean hopper and gives me a better cup than any other grinder by taste, TDS and visual extraction.

Cheers

Frank


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## coffeechap

Frank

Firstly welcome to the forum, always great to see more experts in grinder modification and grinder capabilities here on this forum and it might be an idea to do an introductory post so that people here know and understand the work that you have done on top end grinder modifications for example the great stuff you guys do to versalabs.

I am completely in agreement with most of the points that you raised, my post was a generalisation hence why i said in general the bigger the burr size the better the grind quality and the more consistent the grind quality, but is was in general terms which I still completely stand by.

There are always anomalies to any generalisation and the point of this thread was to encourage more discussions on these points. I think that the quality of the burrs on most of the mahlkonig grinders (ditting) set them apart from a lot of other manufacturers and improve the performance of some of the smaller burr sized grinders like the K30 for example. (Although retention is high on a k30)

In regard to the big conical grinders, I am with you on the fact that weight of bean (or adapted weighted modifications) are essential for them to perform to the best of their capabilities, the grind consistency is noticeably different on a robur or k10 fresh when you have 2 kg of beans in the hopper vs attempting to single dose. In regard to temperature, the temp of the grind even when single dosing is significantly higher on the faster spinning grinders than on the slower spinning grinder, although that temp increases even more when running a greater quantity of beans through the grinder in any given session.

The great thing is getting people to think more about their choices and not just following the crowd like sheep, there are so many great grinders out there that each have their own foibles most of which come be overcome by modifications, people just have to do their research and most importantly taste the results.


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## oop north

Great thread


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## Charliej

Dave, I was thinking that the thread could also probably do with some info about Grinder seasoning and what this is meant to achieve and some rough suggestions of how much coffee/how long it should take on some common grinders, and whether or not it's worth actually buying crap stale beans to do it.


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## mraie

Very informative, was trying to make up mind on doserless or not. You nailed it for me.


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## jsdp01

Great article, very informative, thanks.


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## Mrboots2u

jsdp01 said:


> Great article, very informative, thanks.


Please dont post the same thing on every thread


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## BRYHER

Hi CC,

Been lurking for ages, love the write ups and info. What would be the smallest great grinder ( say a second hand quality one ) in the £200 £300 price range?

I obviously mean *wife*/worktop friendly. ( only seen pictures of most grinders so far ) ..... La pavoni europiccola ..... porlex mini ..... aeropress. In my dreams it would be great to switch easily between aeropress & espresso......Hmmmm!

BTW love the no hopper small camera lens hood mod.

Thanks Michael


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## jeebsy

Second hand Mignon for £200-220ish will be the most kitchen friendly imo. Use that for espresso and get a hand grinder for Aeropress.

Sage Smart Grinder and Vario advertise thmeselves as being able to go between settings but very few grinders can in reality. I found it a bit awkward on the Mignon although @D_Evans says he used to do it.


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## Obnic

I used to switch too but for periods of time rather than several times a day.

The Mignon can grind for either mode but winding the worm drive adjustment between settings is a bit if a faff.


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## CoffeeGeek

Thanks Dave...and if I may add, never ever use a blade grinder


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## Squarepusher

Some very useful information and an interesting take on buying used rather than new.

i have been wondering whether to upgrade my grinder from a Mazzer Mini.

And now have some great pointers on where I should start my research.


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## PeterF

Great write up & every word has prooved true!


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## Rhys

Excellent article, is there a table showing a concise list of grinders with ratings and comments next to them?

I doubt very much I'll need to upgrade mine any time soon but it's be nice to be able to compare it to other grinders (the RR55 is mentioned though but doubt if the RR45 is considered similar?). All I know of, as it's the first and only one I've ever used, is that it's quick albeit a bit noisy and fits under the kitchen cabinets if you remove the hopper (I use it without with my tamper on top). A bit overkill for an evening cuppa or two but it gets the job done with the minimum of fuss.


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## Garrys

What grinder as a newvie would you recommend .Would you go straight to middle of the road price


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## coffeechap

Garrys said:


> What grinder as a newvie would you recommend .Would you go straight to middle of the road price


It will all depend on what money you have to spend really, get as good as you can


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## coffeechap

burningb said:


> Im fairly new to this forums but as it was about coffee grinders I thought Id post this. Its a Top 12 Review of coffee grinders. Personally, mine isn't on this list but it seems pretty good, particularly for those not wishing to spend a fortune!


Without trying to appear rude, but they are not good grinders, at least not from the perspective of most on here, read the original post it may enlighten you


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## Mr O

I like some of the comments...

Well I like this one











> The KitchenAidArtisan - Tougher than Chuck Norris
> ​


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## hotmetal

Chuck Norris grinds his beans between thumb and forefinger.


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## Gthe1

This has really confused me - but in a nice way cos the outcome for me is to read a lot before buying - great thanks

Geoff


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## iain66

Thanks for the advice on P1 lots more reading for this newbie


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## Jon

aikido said:


> View attachment 14902
> 
> 
> Hi! I'm a newbie here, I've just purchased this babe from a website but don't know how to use it properly (actually I bought it just for decorating purpose but it would be nice if I know how it function too) many thanks


Vietnam best store by any chance?!


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## Jimballs

Thank you, very useful advice


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## jSherz

Very useful, thank you! Now back to trawling eBay...


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## Jon

jSherz said:


> Very useful, thank you! Now back to trawling eBay...


Have a look on here - there was a rr45 for 75 delivered the other day.


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## koffie!

Thank you. Great overview of the relevant specs to look for.

So, what 1 kW, 80mm, 100 rpm grinders are there for £250?

Just joking, obviously, but I still can't decide.

The Ascaso I1 has a big motor, runs slow (250W/54mm/700rpm) but gets slammed, the Graef's are all 128W, are lightweight and made of plastic, the manufacturer lists no specs such as burr diameter or rpm but some think they're okay. The Sage SGP is low-ish on power (165W) and again, I can't find anything about rpm or burr size, and generally gets slammed for poor build quality. The MC2 has only a 140W motor but runs at a nice and slow 600 rpm, weighs a comforting 4.5 kg, but has conical burrs of unspecified size and everyone seems to sell it after a year. The Mignon has 50mm steel burrs and a big motor, but runs at a whopping 1350 rpm!

I was in the belief that a biggish motor has lots of torque so can drive big flat burrs at relatively slow speed. But all those above have different approaches, it seems. Do correct me if I am wrong.

For a newbie such as me it's hard to follow.

As I've understood the Gospel of Infucius as far as that in the Beginning there was a Grinder first, I want to buy that before I even go for a machine. As I can't be bothered with upgrading every week (I've played guitar for 30 years, so I know that that process is like! - not going there again!) I want to try out a decent grinder before I step onto espresso machines, just to experience the difference between freshly ground coffee in a moka pot or cafetiere and the supermarket stuff I've used so far. After that, I'll probably get a Stage 2 machine so I'll have half a chance to master it.

Given the confusion above, can anyone demist my view? Oh, I'd like it to be as low as possible, given the limited space I have for it!

Many thanks


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## Mach

As someone struggling girlfully with a new OE Lido 3, I appreciate your article and wish for funds . .


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## Bandeira

Great writeup - new to all this and trying to learn the most!


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## Juarill

Great post and very informative.


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## Juarill

Sorry, I meant to add Thank you.


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## Ericaa

Great write up, thank you


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## J8MCG

Thanks


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## ramanaaa

Thanks so much!


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## stevenet_golf

Many thanks, very informative!


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## coffeechap

Glad this thread is still helping folk out


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## GrahamS

be interesting how loud the various grinders are - seems to be the biggest issue I have - with shmbo


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## adz313

thanks @coffeechap - info. is very useful for someone starting out.


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## M1chaelw

Just seen this , very helpful. Thanks @coffeechap


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## Jimmybean

Awesom.....as a newbie I found this very helpful.


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## stimu

Thank you, at around 100 quid what can I get?


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## jlarkin

stimu said:


> Thank you, at around 100 quid what can I get?


What what you be using the grinder for? Espresso or brewed coffee etc?


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## coffeechap

Plenty of used options available


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## tomph

Thanks for the info... In the market for a grinder around £150-£200 and this thread has answered a lot of my questions


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## birchgra

Really helpful article - thanks


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## Niall

.


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## Saveloy

Really useful OP, I never realised how important a good grinder is until I read these forums


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## Gobbosp

Wow good info confusing me even more now in didnt realise all this so thanks


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## traidoco

Just what I needed, thanks!


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## Buckulus

Great article thanks


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## FerrersWay

Lot's of useful info thanks!


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## prezzy

Thanks OP very informative, looking to upgrade from my baratza encore at the moment.


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## Leoluo

Hi . This is a new starting point for somebody new !


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## Rakesh

Hi, thanks for the useful info. Now to scour the internet to find the best grinder for me!


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## johnealey

@Rakesh you should now be able to see the for sale section of the forum where you may find a grinder with known history (members tend to look after their kit better than the outside world) possibly with any mods already done (thinking Mazzer Super jolly's etc).

You may also want to put up a wanted post with an idea of what you want to spend to see if any members have any grinders they currently not advertising.

Hope of help

John


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## blacktoe

Really helpful thread as I get started on my research into a new home set up for espresso. Thanks!


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## Beanstar

Oh my.

Who would have thought coffee drinking was this complex.

And loving it!


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## Intrigued

A great thread for a newbie like myself, embarking on a mountain of research to acquire whats required for a great cup of coffee. Thank you !!


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## Substeel

Informative post, thanks.

As a newcomer to this I had no idea that people might spend as much or more on their grinder as on their espresso machine!


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## jbh83

Another informative thread, finding out so much on this forum!


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## IZ2018

Thanks for the advice on grinders.


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## Old_Bean

Great advice, thank you


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## npf

coffeechap said:


> Glad this thread is still helping folk out


Coffeechap is the man. Very informative and useful for both newbies and experienced "baristas". Thank you.


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## Rod Norman

I finally joined the ranks of the grinding set, with my humble DeLonghi.

I am sure it is in no way as sophisticated as anyone else's equipment, and the various adjustments/settings it offers, plus my own experimentation, has led me to use a minimum of two scoops (6 demi Stovetop Moka Pot = one large doublesize 'Costa porcelain mug'), and grind my beans 'fine' on the 12 cup setting - basically flat-out!

I am working on the assumption one can get a decent brew, from supermarket blends as innocuous as Sainsbury's Taste The Difference Colombian strength '3'.

Obviously I have much to learn... ?


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## Quenteagle

Just wanted to thank you for the post, it would be great to have it in the newbie section as well.


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## theotterspocket

Excellent intro to grinders.

Thank you!


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## kken2007

It's a very informative post! I was thinking about upgrading my mignon grinder to something else.


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## cloughy

Nice lot of info there, think i shall be released of a substantially larger some of money after that read!


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## blackrg

Thanks that is an excellent article


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## M_H_S

'however if you are prepared to carryout modifications to your grinder you can create zero retention grinders through the use of lens hoods, sweep clean mechs etc, but these will tend to be dosered grinders.'

Re the above statement is there a separate post detailing these mods i.e. lens hoods, sweep cleans. I need to minimise retention on my ancient La Cimballi 6SA. It has a doser which cannot be removed and retention is high: around the burrs, the shoot and also residue in the hopper. Already using an aeropress funnel instead of the 2kg hopper.


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## les24preludes

M_H_S said:


> I need to minimise retention on my ancient La Cimballi 6SA. It has a doser which cannot be removed and retention is high: around the burrs, the chute and also residue in the hopper. Already using an aeropress funnel instead of the 2kg hopper.


You'll find a whole pile of grinder mods on the Internet if you spend a little time searching in a targeted way on keywords. Most of the mods will be to Mazzers, so that could be a search word. You'll find threads on this forum and also on home-barista.com and coffeegeek.com plus a lot of YouTube videos. Because Mazzers are so easy to mod, you may want to throw the towel in and swap your grinder for a Mazzer. You can then take the doser off and really go for zero retention, which is quite easy to achieve.

I've progressed from Mazzer Mini through Super Jolly to Major. Each one was a step up and more flavour in the cup. I'm a huge believer in large burrs, based solely on a comparison of those three. It's a bit more lengthy to take the doser off a Major because you have to rewire underneath, but that's easy and there's a thread here giving you the instructions. You need to wait longer to find a Major at a good price (£200-250) rather than a SJ, which are plentiful, but I'd say it was worth it. It's the entry point to high end grinders - that or anything else with 83mm burrs (unless you go conical). Less clumping, nice fluffy grind and much faster.


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## M_H_S

Thanks. I've ordered a lens hood and will give that a go.


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## leodis

You know choosing a machine was easy. Choosing a grinder is hard


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## jimbojohn55

leodis said:


> You know choosing a machine was easy. Choosing a grinder is hard


I think it helps to narrow down your search

1 what machine are you grinding for / method of coffee making

2 How much do you want to spend

3 How important is size of the grinder

4 Will you consider second hand

answer these and it will narrow down the options


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## Aeroquaff

Excellent information, it looks as though I had better start saving.


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## limarus

Very helpful thread. Now I must make up my mind.


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## Huxley

This is excellent, thanks very much for compiling


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## Drellis

Great thread , I have learnt so much from reading through these forums. I'm currently considering a grinder upgrade from a Sage SGP. My budget around £200 - £300, mainly for espresso but sometimes pour over. Single dosing is preferable. The footprint ideally would be small although I could find space for a bigger grinder if it's worth it in the cup! I'm thinking maybe a Eureka Mignon or a Mazzer Mini? Has anyone got any other suggestions?


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## Rhys

Drellis said:


> Great thread , I have learnt so much from reading through these forums. I'm currently considering a grinder upgrade from a Sage SGP. My budget around £200 - £300, mainly for espresso but sometimes pour over. Single dosing is preferable. The footprint ideally would be small although I could find space for a bigger grinder if it's worth it in the cup! I'm thinking maybe a Eureka Mignon or a Mazzer Mini? Has anyone got any other suggestions?


 Mazzer Major? Not much bigger than a Super Jolly and well worth the extra size.


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## The Asgard

A big thumbs up for the Royal if you have the space and can pickup a good one up 2nd hand. Plenty of easy mods which will give you zero rentention. Its a joy to use and built like a tank.


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## Alan Kilroy

Ideas / options of "great" non digital grinders.....maybe phrasing that wrongly, but good grinders that don't have digital displays timers etc.

I'd be a fan of wired headphones, wired hair trimmers etc if you get my drift, as opposed to wireless this wireless that. ?

Coming, currently from a Compak K3 Touch. ( have had a Baratza Encore then Rancilio Rocky)........and I don't/never have used it's timer.

PS. I got rid of my smart phone about 6 years ago.....the Luddite that I am.

So.....good or great non digi grinders?


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## jimbojohn55

Well it's a buyer's market, there is a few machines on the sales thread such as the Fioronzato or however you spell it,

The accuracy of many digital grinders is suspect, there are exceptions of course but if you find yourself weighing the basket after every fill then what's the point. If you are a ludite then any grinder with a circuit board is out Inc the niche, personaly my preference is for ex commercial bulletproof grinders with big flat burrs, such as the bigger mazzers, others will disagree.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## L&R

Really happy w my Major


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## Bert

Alan Kilroy said:


> Ideas / options of "great" non digital grinders.....maybe phrasing that wrongly, but good grinders that don't have digital displays timers etc.
> I'd be a fan of wired headphones, wired hair trimmers etc if you get my drift, as opposed to wireless this wireless that.
> Coming, currently from a Compak K3 Touch. ( have had a Baratza Encore then Rancilio Rocky)........and I don't/never have used it's timer.
> PS. I got rid of my smart phone about 6 years ago.....the Luddite that I am.
> So.....good or great non digi grinders?


ECM S-64 Manuale should be a decent grinder without a timer. Not sure about retention / exchange though.

Myself I came from a Macap M2M and have been using a K3 Touch for the better part of last 4 years. Like you I never use the timer function. I grind into a small plastic cup by weight, use a funnel to pour into the PF, WDT the grounds, tap to settle, tamp and go.

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


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## urbanbumpkin

L&R said:


> Really happy w my Major
> 
> <img alt="1174237905_Pm(1).thumb.jpg.581f2a1567c46150402d149824522d16.jpg" data-fileid="32247" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_09/1174237905_Pm(1).thumb.jpg.581f2a1567c46150402d149824522d16.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Looks great, where's the doserless. Plate / funnel from?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## L&R

https://home-doserless.com/


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## urbanbumpkin

Looks good. Wish I'd seen this before chopping up a fudge funnel.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ashcroc

urbanbumpkin said:


> Looks good. Wish I'd seen this before chopping up a fudge funnel.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Replace & sell the funnel on.


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## Junglebert

urbanbumpkin said:


> Looks good. Wish I'd seen this before chopping up a fudge funnel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


 Never heard it called that before


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## Nicknak

L&R said:


> Really happy w my Major
> 
> View attachment 32247


 @M_H_S have you seen this re your quest for a single dose grinder ? A good start , possibly better if it fitted a Royal ?


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## MrOrk

@L&R doesn't the exit chute fill up with grounds? I have to brush them out on my SJ. Is that what the small hole is for? Cheers


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## L&R




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## MrOrk

A thousands words thanks


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## M_H_S

Nicknak said:


> @M_H_S have you seen this re your quest for a single dose grinder ? A good start , possibly better if it fitted a Royal ?


Thanks for this. Yes the issue of single dosing with retention mods on a commercial grinders... I just haven't had a convincing answer as to why some grinders have been recommended for this and others haven't. Someone in here has the answer to do this... They must I feel.

E.g. Mazzers are very popular for modding with a lens hood but Ceado e37s and Mahlkonig k30 are said to be no good. I have in fact tried both so would agree. The difference I feel must be the narrowness of the opening of the grind chamber and the burr spin speed.

Regardless of the comparative difference above the consensus seems to be that near the end of the dose the grind becomes coarser. If so I don't feel they constitute ideal or model single dosers. To do so they must match the quality of being hopper fed.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## AmanM

Thank you, this really helps!


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## 4515

Great intro. Spoilt for choice there.

Need to sell the CP before the word gets out about these beauties !


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## Hasi

coffeechap said:


> Oh dear!


post is gone, as is the 'user'
atm your comment makes it stay alive - would you fancy deleting link or rather keep it in for the fun of it?


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## MildredM

coffeechap said:


> Oh dear!


 Yes love?!!!!!


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## MildredM

Hasi said:


> post is gone, as is the 'user'
> atm your comment makes it stay alive - would you fancy deleting link or rather keep it in for the fun of it?


 It is ok, Hasi, CC was addressing me ???


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## Hasi

sorry, don't mean to interfere here...


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## coffeechap

Hasi said:


> sorry, don't mean to interfere here...


 Indeed, you should not


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## Squidgyblack

There's a Super Jolly up on an auction site local to me for around £110, looks a bit rough but I'm wondering is it worth the punt? Currently using a Smart Grinder Pro so contemplating if it's worth taking a shot on the SJ and sticking new burrs in it (providing it works which is always a concern considering it's an auction).


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## MGrieve

Great write up. Really helpful for someone just starting out like myself


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## Wisey

@coffeechap

Hi all

i am new to the coffee game & about to buy my first machine. Aaa complete novice & not wanting to spend the earth was gonna go for a sage barista express or pro however, I've been advised to go for separate machine/grinder.....only wanting to spend £600 or so, don't really want 2nd hand unless it was from a reputable person/company & could guarantee it works etc as I'm not good at DIY & modding/taking things apart

so, I think my option is to get a sage duo temp pro (after using vouchers it'll only cost me £150 or so).

so that leaves me a good chunk for a grinder, which as a newbie I really only want to be spending £250-£300 i think.

so what are your thoughts? I suppose it incorporates baratza (which one?), eureka mignon (which one?), sage pro (people hammer the sage internal grinder Sao is this stand alone product decent)

I am really new to this so please keep the terminology simple - I understood most but not all of your intro thread!

again I'd love to pay £400 for a used niche (or used jolly rancher or whatever they're called) but with my limited knowledge & lack of tinkering skills I think new is the way to go


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## negativesentiment

This was really interesting - thanks for the info.

Have only got a hand grinder for my chemex at the moment, but going to be looking to getting an electric grinder soon. Let the research commence.


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## Nexus

Useful post! Thank you. I haven't moved into espresso yet but have a KG79 for pour-over and moka pot. I suspect when I finally pull the trigger I'll need to go for something beefier.


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## DavecUK

Nexus said:


> Useful post! Thank you. I haven't moved into espresso yet but have a KG79 for pour-over and moka pot. I suspect when I finally pull the trigger I'll need to go for something beefier.


 There is a big flat burr being designed by an expert forum member and the target price might well make it a very attractive option to wait for...I can't find the link to the thread at the moment.


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## JBM78

Great post thanks, very useful. Are the results from decent manual grinders up there with results from electric?

Seems like this is going to be n expensive hobby to get into.....


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## MWJB

JBM78 said:


> Great post thanks, very useful. Are the results from decent manual grinders up there with results from electric?
> 
> Seems like this is going to be n expensive hobby to get into.....


 Kinu, Commandante, Feldgrind, LidoE, 1ZPresso JX Pro are comparable to electric grinders with similar sized conical burrs.


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## JBM78

Thanks for that, I'll have a look


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## JPChess

Fantastic Post, great content. 
Some of which I would have loved to know when first starting my coffee journey.


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## General-S-1

DavecUK said:


> There is a big flat burr being designed by an expert forum member and the target price might well make it a very attractive option to wait for...I can't find the link to the thread at the moment.


 Any update?


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