# Replacing my nespresso machine...



## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

Hello all,

Am replacing my Nespresso machine with something that makes a fab espresso without too much hard work *whole forum groans

i just sent back the Sage Barista Express. After reading various forums and watching YouTube set up videos, buying beans roasted as recently as possible (union), tamping in various strengths... I give up, this isn't fun anymore. And Heston won't take my calls on how to make the 'perfect' espresso either.

I didn't get two shots the same, if I made one good shot the next would be totally different in every way, even if I'd not changed anything and tamped as similar as I could. It's aeems to be a very hit and miss machine.

So I'd like some help on which machine would be best. I like a gadget and have a £500 budget and am eager to learn. Thank you in advance


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Welcome to the madhouse!

Would you consider an espresso like brew?

If so, a (Bialetti) Moka stovetop pot ticks your boxes and will allow you to gain some insight into brews and coffees and all the rigmarole and variations without your budget being hit to hard....saving the dosh for when you feel more confident perhaps?

I would steer clear of the larger versions of the Moka as the time taken to heat the water can have an adverse effect on the coffee sitting above it. This can be avoided to some extent by using an induction hob and appropriate Moka pot and/or pre heating the water before assembling the pot....dangers.

I would advise you to follow the manufacturers instructions. They are purposely simple. They are also based on the physics of the machine. ie to much or to little water affects pressure and tamping the coffee to squeeze a couple of grams more in alters the flow etc etc. If you stick to the instructions and only play with roast level and grind and weight ( latter within the guide of the makers instructions) you should be able to produce a very acceptable espresso brew.

On the subject of grind, a Moka seems to work best at slightly coarser grind settings than espresso. This means that a moderately priced grinder will suffice.

After all, me and millions of Italians can't possibly be wrong!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Hi and welcome, the sage should in theory have been able to have been more consistent although the built in grinder is compromised at that price point. for the kind of consistency your looking for there are two things I would do, the first would be to go on an espresso training course which will save you a lot of time in fully understanding of process, then up your budget - if buying new your looking at £900 up for a decent machine and £300 for the grinder unless you go second hand - hope this helps

update - for consistency you will also need to weigh the coffee down to 0.1g a dose - built in grinders are no accurate with their dose


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Have a look at the melitta bean to cup machines Caroline - well regarded by some on here 

I can't remember the model though a search on these forums should be enough.

With it set up right you can have a fresh bean cup with one touch.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I know you said espresso but...

Have you thought about just being able to make a great tasting cup of coffee?

A really long (50 minute) steep in a Sowden pot makes a fairly fool proof delicious drink with some scope to tune it if you fancy geeking out. Its my favourite Sunday method. Ebay is cheapest.

An aeropress offers a range of different methods for brewing. At one end of the spectrum you can make swift espresso-like shots. At the other end of the spectrum you can do long steep brews. I really rate this tool.

The moka pot is a great tool but can also produce foul tasting engine oil. It requires attention to get the grind and dose right. I love mine though.

You can create excellent microfoam milk by warming it on a pan, putting it into a french press, and then pounding the plunger up and down.

It just strikes me that (right now) you want something a bit less fickle than an espresso machine. You might get more joy for a lot less cash from other methods. Keep the Nespresso machine.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

Wow, really? I have to spend £1200 and go on a training course? I like coffee but not that much.

I'll see if anybody else has any other suggestions a bit closer to my budget. Thankyou for the input


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

A Melitta Varianza From Curry's (on sale at the moment) is the bean to cup that seems best regarded by DaveC on here who did a very detailed review of it. Have a google and you'll find videos and a written review. It's under £500 at the moment and if you want hassle free but good coffee seems to tick the boxes. I'm toying with one myself as I also can't be bothered with manual espresso making.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

I have a stove top coffee maker, I love it and take it away with me when we go on hols. Have always bought beans and had them grinded in our local coffee shop, I use the same grind consistency as with my French press but maybe I should get my own grinder as you suggested and play about with courser settings. Thankyou, appreciate your reply.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Could maybe downsize to the duo temp pro. You can pick one up for around the £200 mark and then spend the rest on a good grinder.

I can't comment on the BE's grinder as I haven't used that machine, but in theory I have. I had the sage grinder with my DTP, and when I swapped that for a mazzer super jolly the results were much better.

Just another option to think about


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

Thankyou GingerBen, this sounds good. I'll go and have a look. I think I've had it easy with nespresso for so many years but I'd love a bean to cup machine. Maybe I'm lazy but I have a 7 week old... I need the coffee faster!!! Lol


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

The Melitta has been mentioned by someone else too. Thanks for taking the time to reply, really appreciate it. Kennyboy993

Im not sure if my replies are going to you all personally (which is what I wanted) my first time on here. I'll get used to it I'm sure.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

Oh that's a good idea too joey. Am definitely getting the same advice about getting a grinder. I should have joined here first before I jumped in and got the more expensive model. Appreciate your help


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Caroline75 said:


> Wow, really? I have to spend £1200 and go on a training course?


for starters









it can be an expensive hobby if you are after the god shot

sourcing a second hand PID'ed Gaggia Classic and Eureka Mignon plus accessories (around 500 quid) would allow you to enter the world of great espresso


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

I don't want it to be a hobby though and I don't want to make the God shot. A good consistent espresso with a bit of practice and some good advice would be grand. I've only been a member for a few hours and I'm super happy with the recommendations and advice I've been given already. Thanks for your advice. Will definitely look into both machines and accessories


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Caroline75 said:


> I don't want it to be a hobby though and I don't want to make the God shot. A good consistent espresso with a bit of practice and some good advice would be grand. I've only been a member for a few hours and I'm super happy with the recommendations and advice I've been given already. Thanks for your advice. Will definitely look into both machines and accessories


Hi Caroline and welcome!

That's what we all say. I joined the forum and started off with an aeropress less than a year ago and remember laughing at the advice I was given about scales and thinking there's no way I'm going to weigh water. Little did I know that the aeropress and the first bag of decent beans were just the gateway drug...

In 9 months I've got scales, gooseneck (not literally, just the kettle), 3 grinders, v60, FP, moka and just bought a Gaggia Classic. And I vowed I would never get an espresso machine. Goddamnit I even write down brew times, grind size and water weight!

And now I have the Gaggia I'm looking at a new grinder for espresso...

It's a slippery slope

Great advice on here though as you've already found out. And if you ever want justification to spend a lot of money there's fellow addicts on the forum who will give you all the support you need to get your credit card out!

For simplicity sake the machine that ginger ben mentioned really does come well recommended and well worth a look of you're really sure you don't want to make a hobby out of it but want espresso style drinks


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I would be inclined to say V60+ Wilfa svart grinder and or a wilfa classic plus coffee maker.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Caroline75 said:


> Wow, really? I have to spend £1200 and go on a training course? I like coffee but not that much.
> 
> I'll see if anybody else has any other suggestions a bit closer to my budget. Thankyou for the input


£500.00 will provide you with a very decent espresso machine/grinder combination especially if you consider buying used via the forum's 'for sale' thread. A great many of us began our coffee journey with the Gaggia Classic which can be picked up for around £150.00 in good, well care for, condition which leaves plenty over for the grinder and other coffee making paraphernalia - some weighing scales.

If you do go down this route, as mentioned on your intro thread, can provide some training to help you get up and running and producing good tasting espresso in next to no time as I live near the Fylde.


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## dm2583 (Nov 29, 2017)

I'm having very similar issues to you Caroline though I haven't yet returned my BE, although it is all boxed up ready to ship! Will be watching this thread with interest


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Caroline75 said:


> Wow, really? I have to spend £1200 and go on a training course?


No. The starter set up of the Gaggia Classic and Eureka Mignon has been mentioned already. There's also the La Pavoni Europiccola if a lever appeals. And the Niche grinder looks like an outstanding grinder at a disruptive price if you can wait.

The thing is that the Barista Express is not an incapable set-up. It just takes time and experimentation to learn how to perfect the distribution of grinds in the basket, and then tune your dose, grind and brew ratio (grind weight to shot weight) to get the taste you want. This will be true for the above set-ups as well.

My sense is that you're not yet, may never be, up for the ball-aching string of disappointing shots that most people have to endure until they figure out a way through the mire. That's why you returned your BE. And more power to you.

A good grinder, a V60 drip, a Sowden and an Aeropress, like gateway drugs, may give you more options and greater enjoyment... until you can resist the pilgrimage that is espresso no longer.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Caroline,

In my experience many people don't want the hassle of a prosumer machine, grinder, tamping weighing etc.. It's OK not to want to do all this. Some people don't even want the hassle of cleaning a BTC machine each week and emptying out the old pucks and water once per day. Even the cleaning of a caferierre or filter maker is too much For them. For those people, a spoon and a jar might be their preferred method and that's OK.

*Reading your initial post carefully, it's not about training it's simply about the level of hassle you are prepared to undertake. It's OK, from there lies 2 routes if you are prepared to simply keep things clean.*

1. Nespresso, where you have an environmental issue, long term high cost and cheap coffee in the capsules

2. Bean To cup machines, expensive to buy, cheaper in the long run, no environmental issues and you can buy from a variety of your favourite roasters.

If you decide on BTC read this review of mine.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/melitta-caffeo-varianza-csp/

Bella Barista don't have stocks of them any more on the web and try and get as close to £500-£550 as possible for the machine. The Varianza is the sweet spot and the TS barista is more money for things you don't need (touch buttons and more users) plus a larger tank. The Varianza also allows a different bean just by lifting out a special scoop and using that...the TS Barista has a twin hopper, in a sense far less flexible.

*In fact here is an absolute bargain price for one at Currys £469, so well within the budget and a VERY good price (even free delivery)..*

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/small-kitchen-appliances/coffee-machines-and-accessories/coffee-machines/melitta-caffeo-varianza-csp-f57-0-101-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine-silver-10158357-pdt.html

P.S. Don't be fooled into buying some of the very big names in BTC and especially paying double the price. There is one machine that's 1200 or more and I wouldn't have it if it was free. The Varianza was the best BTC I have ever tested out of quite a few BTC machines.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

@thesystemickid am really interested in your post and great that you're not too far away. I'll have a look at the above mentioned machines and drop you a note once we get sorted if that's ok? Many thanks


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

@dm2583 we have tried and tried with the machine. 2 weeks of playing with settings daily. I wanted to love it, I mean it looks great in the kitchen but it'll be an expensive dust collector if we end up back using the Nespresso again. There's some great advice and info on here though. Fingers crossed we get sorted, hope you do too.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

@Obnic the amount I wasted trying to get a good shot was heart breaking. How many bags of beans do I need to go through? Tweaking each thing until I thought I'd got it right and then the next time (with no change) totally different!?!! Arghhhhh how hard! Am going to have a look at all you've mentioned above, many thanks for taking the time to respond.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

@DavecUK i don't mind a bit of hassle, the grinding and tamping go hand in hand with a great coffee and I want to know how to do it properly but I didn't seem to be getting anywhere with the BE. Was just frustrating in the end. I couldn't seem to get any advice on settings either. I wish I'd joined a group like this in the first place. Nespresso is easy but the waste doesn't sit well with me and we drink a lot of coffee, plus super expensive as the capsules aren't cheap.

Thankyou for all the advice and links, it'll be my 3am reading whilst feeding my baby. And that's why I need a good coffee lol.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Hi Caroline - I should have said the £1300 is what a lot on people end up spending in the long run-some a lot more! - not myself I have a Claasic and a Pavoni both second hand as well as a Mazzer Jolly and now a Mazzer Major the most ive paid for a SH grinder is £160 and £120 for a classic

The classic will do the business paired with a decent grinder, my grandson in just 9months old so I appreciate the time and fuss issues of a lot of procces, I got my daughter a Classic with and on demand Iberital MC2 - these two machines are often quoted as the entry point to great espresso and are pretty bulletproof - adding a PID tweaks the classic but for £500 you could easily get a SH classic £150 (go for a pre 2015 model) plus an ex commercial grinder such as a Mazzer Jolly.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Caroline75 said:


> I have a stove top coffee maker, I love it and take it away with me when we go on hols. Have always bought beans and had them grinded in our local coffee shop, I use the same grind consistency as with my French press but maybe I should get my own grinder as you suggested and play about with courser settings. Thankyou, appreciate your reply.


As a rule of thumb, a stove-top needs a grind that is between Filter setting and the start of Espresso settings.

French Press/Cafetiere settings are far to course. A shop bought pre ground coffee labelled 'suitable for all coffee makers' would be a reasonably starting point for the grind level.

Best.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Caroline75 said:


> @DavecUK i don't mind a bit of hassle, the grinding and tamping go hand in hand with a great coffee and I want to know how to do it properly but I didn't seem to be getting anywhere with the BE. Was just frustrating in the end. I couldn't seem to get any advice on settings either. I wish I'd joined a group like this in the first place. Nespresso is easy but the waste doesn't sit well with me and we drink a lot of coffee, plus super expensive as the capsules aren't cheap.
> 
> Thankyou for all the advice and links, it'll be my 3am reading whilst feeding my baby. And that's why I need a good coffee lol.


Ah I misunderstood.

I looked up the machine and remember know it's a similar idea to the old Expobar office control. The big problem with it is the combined grinder come prosumerish type machine. I never really liked that combination much, especially as the grinders going to be quite cheap and nasty. You really need a seperate grinder and machine, the grinder should be a decentish one, spending aroun 280-330 new or used on here, if you want a larger old commercial. if your lucky a small Mazzer Mini E might come up for £360 ish.

Then as a machine, something small and easy in the HX class, although they do need to be flushed down to get the right temps. Again used, or new for £800 (which can get you a small footprint machine). troubl,e is it's a bit out of your budget of £500. Other than that, you can move to dual boiler, more control, but way out of your budget.

You can get the old GC+commercial used grinder combo within your budget, if that's the way you want to go....my recommendation, brows around a bit more, read some of the manymany reviews I have done, just for education purposes. They will let you know the types of machines, how they work, what might suit etc..The more knowledge you have the better armed you are for grinders, machines etc.. whether new or used. I am suire people can link you to many of them. Some are findable on google. The worst thing is to rush the decision....believe it or not some people do.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwj31N6Eo-TXAhViFMAKHW31Cr4QFgiDAjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bellabarista.co.uk%2Fpdf%2Fcompact-grinder-1-closerlook.pdf&usg=AOvVaw150kLORYBtm2a8s-cFgH1E

Like the above one for grinders, not visible, but still usefully downloadable.

If you buy the right machine and grinder, it can be with you decades, so it's usually much better (and cheaper in the long run) to buy right and buy once.


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## Caroline75 (Nov 28, 2017)

@jimbojohn55 maybe in the future I'll look at spending more but I just can't justify it at this moment. I have an 8week old and a 2year old and already feel guilty spending this amount but hey ho I think it'll save me money in the long run anyway (that's what I'm telling myself). I'll have a good old read later on and a look at the machines you've mentioned. They seem in my price range too. Many thanks.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Caroline75 said:


> @Obnic the amount I wasted trying to get a good shot was heart breaking. How many bags of beans do I need to go through? Tweaking each thing until I thought I'd got it right and then the next time (with no change) totally different!?!! Arghhhhh how hard! Am going to have a look at all you've mentioned above, many thanks for taking the time to respond.


Yeah! Many people on here will recognize your tale. Then, just as you get the hang of it, you convince yourself you need a new better grinder and everything goes out the window again.

I think DaveC nailed it with the bean to cup as your next step. Get back to enjoying coffee. Who needs any more hassle with a new baby. The stuff I recommended is cheap to buy so once the nipper starts sleeping through the night you can branch out for little dosh.

PS. If you do decide eventually to join the zen-like meditation that is the pursuit of perfect espresso, then concentrate on distribution of the grinds in the basket. That is the first and most important skill in my opinion. If you get this right, your shots become repeatable. You can build from there.

PPS. Do stay in touch with the forum. It's like a club. All friends that enjoy hearing about other people's progress and helping solve their issues.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

If you decide on BTC, Amazon prime have a Melitta Caffeo for £449.99 (55% off) today.


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