# MrShades Gaggia Classic PID Kit - Complete PID kit with full guide - £89



## MrShades

A while ago (OK, I started this project about 12 months ago) I decided that there were probably folk in the UK who owned Gaggia Classics and wanted to PID them but were probably a bit daunted by the task. Whilst you CAN purchase all of the parts on eBay, and buy cable and connectors and all of the tools required to make everything - I know (from doing it myself) that it all soon adds up and it's not simple.

Many people don't really know what to buy, where to source it and don't already have the tools needed to make the wires up etc. - and are therefore swayed towards the only "complete kit" for doing this easily, that being the Auber one. However, it's hellishly expensive as you can only purchase them from the US, with expensive shipping and then duty/VAT on top.

So - I decided to make a similar (perhaps better) kit myself, largely from off-the-shelf parts but combined with the popular PID components that I also sell separately (the Pt100 sensors and the aluminium boxes).

I put the outline kit together last Christmas, and started producing the manual - which I think is pretty much a complete Dummy's Guide to Install and Use - and now runs to some 59 pages of A4 (downloaded as a PDF), with lots and lots of photos, instructions, tips, etc. all the way through. The manual is finished off with a reference section for the PID.

Throughout 2015 I've had a few people contact me, who have heard via the grapevine about my kit - and a few members on here have purchased the kit, installed it (sometimes with some PM/email assistance/support from me) and they've provided some great feedback on the manual, and hence it's gradually improved over the year to the point that I've not changed it for a while (currently on V4) and am now very happy with it.

So - my original intention a year ago was to make a similar kit to the Auber one, but make it available in the UK at a reasonable price and with a better manual, and (I think) a better Pt100 sensor and a better aluminium box. Personally, I think I've done it.... ;-)

Hence I can now launch the "*MrShades Gaggia Classic PID Kit*".

It contains:

- Rex C100 PID - with SSR output and all pins connected (including the important 6 and 7 for alarm/steam)

- MrShades Pt100 sensor

- MrShades aluminium enclosure with mounting tape (this used to be optional, but I've decided to make it part of the main kit)

- Brew kit:

---- All wires, premade to required length and preterminated with connectors

---- SSR 40A DA with mounting screws

- Steam kit:

---- All wires, premade to required length and preterminated with connectors

---- SSR 40A AA with mounting screws

- Ancillary bits:

---- Cable ties

---- Thermal paste (for SSRs and Pt100 if desired)

---- earthing wire for enclosure

---- Spiral wire wrap

You can see a photo of the main contents, ready to go, here:










...and all boxed up ready to go out to the next lucky owner (this one is yours @condor87 ):










(The piece of paper isn't there just for the heck of it and to promote the kit, it contains the download instructions for the manual)

As I mentioned, I've spent a great deal of time and effort producing the manual - and I'm not making in publicly available as I believe that a significant part of the value in this kit is the knowledge and information within the manual. Hence I'm not posting the full manual here, but am posting a preview of the first few pages so that you can see the contents and the quality (hopefully). This sample is a LOW RES PDF and has low-res photos, the final version is 59 pages and has higher quality photos throughout.

Take a look at the manual sample here. (Note that this is truly AWFUL quality, the fonts are everywhere and the quality is awful - the proper version is very much nicer!)

I've priced this marginally above my production costs (especially when taking into account the time and effort that goes into making it up) and want to sell it mainly to help Gaggia Classic owners who perhaps feel daunted by the DIY route, not being sure what to buy or what to do with it, or just want an easy-to-fit PID kit.

Obviously anyone who buys it gets my PM/email support if required (and for what it's worth!).

*Price : £89 inc UK shipping.*

Drop me a PM if you're interested or have any further questions.

MrShades

**** UPDATE: *** * This "1/16DIN, dual display" version of the kit will remain available, as above - though I've now launched an additional version of the kit that uses a 1/32DIN single-display controller. Full details of it are available here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?31342-MrShades-Gaggia-Classic-PID-Kit-%281-32DIN%29-Complete-PID-kit-with-full-guide-%A394&p=417906#post417906

*** UPDATE ***. I've now changed the case for this kit - to a smooth finish silver case, and whilst I think it looks better and remains a "clam shell" design (so it splits apart) the new case has JUST enough room inside it to mount the PID controller in either orientation- so that case can be horizontally or vertically mounted on the Classic. I've put some other pics later on this thread but here's a couple to show the new case:


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## Hairy_Hogg

PM sent


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## smorgo

Nice one! I was casting an eye around only a couple of hours ago at the Auber kit and was disappointed by the cost. I'll certainly be putting an order in once I've sourced a Classic to attach it to.


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## MrShades

Hairy_Hogg said:


> PM sent


Not seen it yet, but had some brief notification on Tapatalk about it - so may be a Tapatalk thing and it might take a while to come through. Will let you know if I don't have it by the morning!


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## coffeechap

really great to see that you have this finalised now, I have admired your dogged determination to see this project through and can see the benefit that this will bring to the gaggia classic owners on the forum, well done adrian


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## markf

this sounds really interesting! might get one after I am able to source for a second-hand gaggia

just one comment/request though - could we see what the kit looks like attached to your classic? perhaps a short video of how it operates? (of course not a video to explain the set up, as I fully appreciate that we are paying for that information)


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## MrShades

Amusingly, I have my PID in a crappy black plastic box on my Classic - but you may well find that one of the kind souls who has bought the kit over the past few months and feels that they wish to share a photo/video or something will be along soon.... Anyone help? (Looking at you two @Asgross and @bclarke )

It's a standard RexC100 PID - and there's mucho info on the web/forum publically, but all the same - my box looks good, it's all easy to fit, and the Pt100 sensor works well! ;-)


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## destiny

Nice one mate! I think it will sell like hot cupcakes







Id put another picture of this assembled so people can get an idea of what the finished product looks like in this case


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## MrShades

destiny said:


> Nice one mate! I think it will sell like hot cupcakes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Id put another picture of this assembled so people can get an idea of what the finished product looks like in this case


These are a few pics from my "PID enclosure" thread, that show the PID mounted in the box. Hopefully these help - but picture this stuck (with the included super-sticky-tape) to the top left hand side of a Classic...


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## cavem01

I haven't had a full kit from MrShades BUT I have his enclosure and we are in discussions around a PT100 for my Silvia. Here is a few snaps of the PID housing! Also MrShades is a top guy always willing to help!


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## Asgross

I bought this directly from mrshades

It is a fantastic kit with great EASY instructions

His kit has added a new dimension to my love of espresso making at home

Thoroughly recommended


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## maths15

This is something I am interested in. I got a few bits and bobs to do a pid but never really went the whole hog as I was concerned about blowing my Gaggia, myself or both up. I can wire plug, although not done that for a along time now what with everything coming with a plug. I rember getting my Zx Spectrum out of the box, 48k, rubber keys and taking the toaster plug apart to see how it was done. I thought I was using my intitive, however my mum went mad.

Sorry, went a bit misty eyed then. How easy is it? One being a plug ten being installing a new sub-station?


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## Asgross

On your scale of 1-10 my guess 2

For me very easy and

I'm not handy or mechanical at all

My limit before this was changing light bulbs

The instructions are step by step

There's no way I could have fitted this without his instructions

I love his kit , now my gaggia has great steam power and I love trying different temps for different beans


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## MrShades

Asgross said:


> On your scale of 1-10 my guess 2
> 
> For me very easy and
> 
> I'm not handy or mechanical at all
> 
> My limit before this was changing light bulbs
> 
> The instructions are step by step
> 
> There's no way I could have fitted this without his instructions
> 
> I love his kit , now my gaggia has great steam power and I love trying different temps for different beans


<blushes> thanks Alan - very kind words that are much appreciated.</blushes>


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## KevJ70

I have had my Gaggia for about five months now. I'm really interested in this. is this way to go to improve my Gaggia and my coffee experience.

I was a bit worried about doing something like this but with some of the reviews about the kit sounds good

Kev


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## whiterabbit107

Always thought about adding a PID to my classic but was unsure how much benefit there is. This sounds like it might hold off upgrades for a while!


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## Ronaldbiggs

How much would this kit speed up the rather slow process of making multiple drinks ? The boiler side of the Gaggia has been one of the things holding me back. I already have a Mazzer SJ and wanted something to get me started but with a few of the variables reduced.


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## Asgross

Heres a couple of pics off my phone, hopefully will give you an idea of this pid kit on my classic


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## Krax

I was one of the original Beta testers for Mr Shades early Classic PID kits and can confirm how good they are. The instructions are clear and all of the parts required included. Adrian has made this an easy upgrade to perform. The temperature stability of the Classic is vastly improved (although sufficient recovery time still has to be allowed for consistent shots). Being able to adjust the brew temperature and becoming familiar with the effects of doing so certainly helped my understanding of the brew process as well as the workings of the Classic. Well worth it in my opinion.


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## MrShades

Thanks @Krax - and I have to say that Keith was the first user of my original v1 manual, and his help in getting it to v2 was invaluable.

Others gave me feedback on the manual - but Keith got the first kit with first manual and probably spent as much time fitting the kit as he did providing feedback.

Thanks muchly!


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## russe11

Ronaldbiggs said:


> How much would this kit speed up the rather slow process of making multiple drinks ? The boiler side of the Gaggia has been one of the things holding me back. I already have a Mazzer SJ and wanted something to get me started but with a few of the variables reduced.


 @Ronaldbiggs

It would speed up a little but not a huge amount? You do have the benefit of the temp once it has reached it's temperature being in a fixed position, consequently you would not have to wait for the thermostat to cool to start your coffee making process (thermostat replaced by PT100 sensor)

As regards the boiler if you are just catering for yourself/wifey the Gaggia will be enough.. If you have a queue of people wanting a coffee probably better looking for a larger machine. You have to ask yourself how often will there be half a dozen people waiting for coffee?


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## Ronaldbiggs

russe11 said:


> @Ronaldbiggs
> 
> It would speed up a little but not a huge amount? You do have the benefit of the temp once it has reached it's temperature being in a fixed position, consequently you would not have to wait for the thermostat to cool to start your coffee making process (thermostat replaced by PT100 sensor)
> 
> As regards the boiler if you are just catering for yourself/wifey the Gaggia will be enough.. If you have a queue of people wanting a coffee probably better looking for a larger machine. You have to ask yourself how often will there be half a dozen people waiting for coffee?


Thanks for the advice, most of the time there will only two or three wanting coffee, I am a little uncertain which way to go, a used Gaggia and PID would be about £220 - 240, a used HX would possibly be £380+, kind of thinking to wait and just buy a used Fracino or the like.


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## russe11

@Ronaldbiggs Where in Wiltshire are you? I've almost finished putting together a Classic to sell on eBay but will probably wait until after Christmas now to sell. You are welcome to borrow it for a while to try it out. It's just a basic Classic but it will have Rancilio Steam Wand and OPV done. At least It will give you an idea as to which direction you want to take regarding a machine? Plus you can "get your hands dirty" at the same time?

I'm in Bristol so if you can find your way there easily or we could meet up if your further away you are welcome to try it.


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## Ronaldbiggs

russe11 said:
 

> @Ronaldbiggs Where in Wiltshire are you? I've almost finished putting together a Classic to sell on eBay but will probably wait until after Christmas now to sell. You are welcome to borrow it for a while to try it out. It's just a basic Classic but it will have Rancilio Steam Wand and OPV done. At least It will give you an idea as to which direction you want to take regarding a machine? Plus you can "get your hands dirty" at the same time?
> 
> I'm in Bristol so if you can find your way there easily or we could meet up if your further away you are welcome to try it.


Thats a fantastic gesture Russ, I really appreciate your offer. I have over the last 3 hours purchased a Sage duo temp from Lakeland for £319. Kind of thought it's a bit of a freebie given the fact the return policy.

Hopefully it will give me a start, once again thanks for the offer, if I don't get on with the Sage I will let you know in regards to the Classic.


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## russe11

Ok no problem. Good luck with yer new machine, I'm sure you will get on just fine!


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## condor87

Arrived yesterday! Even though it's an actually my Christmas present I thought I'd better check the contents of the box









Looks really good, aluminium case is a nice touch and the manual is comprehensive, can't wait to get it set up. Will report back with pics when done.


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## Khashy

Hi,

I'm beginning to seriously consider a PID after comments from fellow forum members.

Quick question on MrShades kit: is the kit only for precise temperature control or is it designed to do the whole preInfusion->Soak->Brew thing?

I am asking this as I recall Auber advertises their whole preInfusion bit as a selling point.

Thanks,

K.


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## MrShades

My kit doesn't do preinfusion.... though the Auber function is essentially just flicking the brew switch off and then on again (including the operation of the solenoid valve etc). It's pretty pointless if you ask me, and does nothing that you can't do with a finger.

I much prefer a dimmer mod on the pump to provide much better preinfusion - allowing a few drops at low pressure, then a proper pause (with no solenoid valve disengagement) and the full or variable pressure pour thereafter. It's how I use my Classic to great effect and it's all pretty well documented on here (stage 1, buy an Invensys pump if you don't already have one; stage 2, buy a dimmer switch).

Choice is obviously yours and if you really value the Auber preinfusion idea then nothing else will do that within a single PID device).


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## GCGlasgow

Finally got round to fitting @MrShades PID kit...well PID courtesy of @Rhys (Thanks) and the rest from Mr Shades

I know nothing about coffee machines or electronics but with the instructions even I was able to fit this. Had a couple of panic moments but got there in the end with support from Mr Shades, Thanks.

Looking forward to not standing in the kitchen at 6.30am waiting on the light going out on the machine, just tried it there and temp seems to be remaining stable.









Another bonus of this is that I've taken the machine apart and have a lot clearer idea of what's inside a classic.


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## MrShades

Nicely done Gordon - looks great and whilst I offered a small amount of assistance you've obviously done a great job of installing it all without any issues at all.

Hope it helps you to enjoy much better coffee from your Classic.


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## Rhys

Glad it's gone to more use than I could give it


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## GCGlasgow

First try this morning and definitely makes a difference....temp was stable, and actually didn't realise that prior to using this the temp was to high (using guesswork, lights going out, waiting 5 secs...phew!) Also great not having to wait around until all this aligned. if you haven't got one or are thinking about one I'd thoroughly recommend.


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## MSM

PM sent to MrShades


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## MrShades

MSM said:


> PM sent to MrShades


Replied - thanks for your order Mark.


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## batfink

I keep thinking about going for this but unsure whether I should just upgrade to a better machine overall.

I've done all the usual mods except for the PID on my Classic. I typically make no more than 2-3 drinks per day, one of which may have milk in.

Would I see much of a benefit if I upgraded to nice, shiny DB or HX or would I be just as well saving some money and adding a PID to the Classic instead?


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## Jollybean

I have a PID on my classic and found it a great improvement. Never give temperature a second thought now as the PID controls it all. I've stuck with my classic as it makes great coffee so can't comment on the improvement a DB or HX will give. My view is that as long as the temperature and pressure is correct (both of which are possible on a PID classic) the biggest factor is the grind quality so have invested in a good grinder rather than upgrading the coffee machine. The classic is however a pain for doing multiple drinks so an upgraded machine would be useful for that - but normally I just make 2-3 drinks a day for me and find the classic makes pretty good coffee and does nice microform milk.

Having said all that I still hanker after an L1 though!


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## GCGlasgow

Just what jollybean say's, I also recently added the PID and noticed immediate improvement, plus no waiting around. I only drink 2-3 espresso's per day so just now i'm content with what I have. (L1 would be nice too) but I don't feel the need for a DB or HX.


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## MrShades

OK, I have a vested interest to an extent in saying that a PID makes a huge difference (and I think it does!) - but I'll just say that I am fortunate to have a (heavily) modified Classic - with PID and pressure profiling, and just about anything else I could do with it - paired with a Mazzer Royal; and also have an Alex Duetto dual-boiler paired with a Compak K10 Fresh.

I can get equally as good espresso from the Classic as from the Duetto, and with the pressure profiling, sometimes it's better from the Classic.

The Duetto looks much nicer and with a rotary pump it sounds better... ;-)


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## batfink

Thanks all for the input. It sounds like a PID might be a way to go. If I was to get a new machine instead, it would cost a lot more and be nice and shiny but by the sounds of things, offer minimal benefit over a Classic with PID.

I think all I would miss would be better build, better/quicker microfoam, quicker recovery time and the benefit of a hot water tap which I don't have now.

I'm currently using with a Eureka Mignon so perhaps a PID would mean I upgrade the grinder rather than the machine? When I first bought the Classic, I had no idea it could be that good and assumed it would be a stop gap to something better.


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## maths15

I'm looking forward to carrying out this mod. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## NJD1977

I did this mod to my classic last year with the help of this forum and a MrShades PT-100. It was so much fun tinkering, and the results were great. It made the machine so much more useable and the coffee so much tastier. 100% recommended from me and MrShades is a stand up guy you can trust.


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## batfink

Having thought long and hard about it, I don't think I can justify to myself the expense of a new machine for marginal gains given my usage. The increased convenience would be nice but not worth the extra cost. Hopefully a PID will satisfy my upgraditis for a while.

PM incoming MrShades.......


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## Geetarman

PM sent


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## olivier

Really interested in PID'ing my Gaggia Classic now that it seemed repaired and I have my pressure gauge on the way for the OPV mod!

Thanks batfink for pointing this thread out for me.


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## danzaid

Hi, I'm new to forum, so cannot PM you, but curious if you would consider shipping this to US? Yeah, kind of ironic, but I'm in market for DIY kit for Brew and Steam control for a Gaggia Classic and your kit looks like a labor of love. Thanks!


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## MrShades

danzaid said:


> Hi, I'm new to forum, so cannot PM you, but curious if you would consider shipping this to US? Yeah, kind of ironic, but I'm in market for DIY kit for Brew and Steam control for a Gaggia Classic and your kit looks like a labor of love. Thanks!


Yes, I'd probably ship to the US at a price - though, yes, ironically I produced this to give those of us on this side of the Atlantic something similar to the Auber kit at a sensible price.

I would guess that my kit + postage to the US would probably come out more expensive than an Auber kit for you?


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## danzaid

MrShades said:


> Yes, I'd probably ship to the US at a price - though, yes, ironically I produced this to give those of us on this side of the Atlantic something similar to the Auber kit at a sensible price.
> 
> I would guess that my kit + postage to the US would probably come out more expensive than an Auber kit for you?


Humor me. What is price for kit w/ standard ship to US ZIP 19426? The Auber w/ steam is ~200 USD. Thanks!


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## abraxas69

Oh dear, what *am* I doing reading this thread! I've still got my training wheels on in the New Members section... Not only that I just posted a few hours ago about taking baby steps and not getting ahead of myself, lol!

But this just looks fantastic. I appreciate the work that has obviously gone in to it, not just getting the project off the ground, but getting it to where it is today... Built myself a very good network music streamer a couple of years ago, which is still in use today, and had grand plans to take it to the next level, but alas...

The tinkering, the getting to know the workings of the GC, not to mention the primary benefits of this all very much appeal to me. (Heck, just having a digital display strapped to the side of the machine appeals to me!)

But I haven't even learnt to walk yet! And perhaps a good grinder should be more of a priority... and doing the OPV mod... and, well, just learning first how to consistently make great shots of coffee! Mmm, decisions decisions...


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## hotmetal

abraxas69 said:


> But I haven't even learnt to walk yet! And perhaps a good grinder should be more of a priority... and doing the OPV mod... and, well, just learning first how to consistently make great shots of coffee! Mmm, decisions decisions...


No harm in getting 'ahead of yourself' - the PID kit, in common with a lot of tweaks and upgrades that can be made to a Classic, are not 'experts only' , they're aimed at making it easier to get good results. BUT prioritise getting the best grinder you can afford as soon as you can - this will have the single biggest impact on the quality of the drinks you make. Ideally something like a Mignon or Super Jolly if funds allow. Then it's worth doing the PID. The OPV adjustment is free (assuming you can borrow one of the manometers doing the rounds and don't break anything in the process).


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## El carajillo

Slow down, savour the journey, learn the basics and build on them. Using the Classic in its natural form you will learn its foibles and how to overcome them . Savour/ enjoy each improvement and see the difference it makes, all this is mega bites of input and reinforces skills which are transferable as you upgrade.


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## MrShades

danzaid said:


> Humor me. What is price for kit w/ standard ship to US ZIP 19426? The Auber w/ steam is ~200 USD. Thanks!


I'll work it out and let you know, on this thread, later this week. I'm just finishing some pre-ordered kits off now, and once I know the exact size and weight of the package I can cost the US shipping more accurately.... I've just had a similar request from New Zealand, so you're not alone in being an interested but International member.

I ship my Pt100 sensors all over the world - but they're pretty light and cheap to ship almost anywhere. This kit will be slightly different! Anyway, will let you know.


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## Dicci

MrShades, will the kit work on a 2014 model?


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## MrShades

Dicci said:


> MrShades, will the kit work on a 2014 model?


2014 model (ie the same model as previous X years, with a solenoid valve) : yes, 2015 model (ie the latest version, with no solenoid valve, etc.) : no... or at least I haven't tested or designed it around the 2015 version.


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## Dicci

MrShades said:


> 2014 model (ie the same model as previous X years, with a solenoid valve) : yes, 2015 model (ie the latest version, with no solenoid valve, etc.) : no... or at least I haven't tested or designed it around the 2015 version.


My machine is an RI9403/11 is that the latest version?

Thanks for your help.


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## MrShades

Dicci said:


> My machine is an RI9403/11 is that the latest version?
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Yes - that's the latest version.

In theory the kit components would work - but the instructions would be pointless and incorrect. I need to try and get my hands on a 2015 model to see what can be done.


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## Dicci

Ok, thanks anyway. Ill try and get my hands on a second hand classic to meddle with!


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## MrShades

I'd try and offload the new one somewhere if I were you, and keep a classic Classic (as opposed to a new Classic).


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## Dicci

MrShades said:


> I'd try and offload the new one somewhere if I were you, and keep a classic Classic (as opposed to a new Classic).


If I can get hold of an older classic you're more than welcome to borrow my new model to meddle with.


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## MrShades

danzaid said:


> Humor me. What is price for kit w/ standard ship to US ZIP 19426? The Auber w/ steam is ~200 USD. Thanks!


You'd be looking at 105 GBP (so about 150 USD) delivered (on a 5-7 day service). With a purchase price of


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## maths15

I got the pid kit yesterday and spent yesterday evening fitting. I only installed the brew pid and it was very straight forward. I've pulled a few shots and although not a blind test I can tell a differnce. Well worth it. The picture is before full set up hence temp differnce but thought you may like to see it. One bit of advice for anyone thinking of doing this mod, take you water tank out before doing it. I forgot and made a bet of a mess!


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## Dunx90

Nice one, mine is currently in the post which should be here today or Monday. Can't wait to get it fitted.


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## MSM

Mine has arrived and looking forward to the install hopefully this week.


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## GCGlasgow

With MrShades instructions it's not too difficult to fit, I haven't got a clue but managed to do it. Take plenty of pics throughout as I had to refer back to them a few times. I've found it makes a great improvement in the coffee, one less variable to worry about and it's great not having to stand waiting on lights going off/on for temp surfing.


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## batfink

I missed the postman by 10 mins today so going to have to wait until next week to pick it up and probably won't get to install until next weekend. Gives me plenty of time to familiarise myself with the manual though!


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## Dunx90

Got mine today and its fitted. Currently waiting on the auto tune working then I'm gonna make my first brew , can't wait.


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## MrShades

@Dunx90 holds the fitting record now at around 24hrs after I'd posted it and 5hrs after recieving it. Impressive!!!!!

Special mention to the previous record holder @maths15 who pulled an all-nighter to fit his last night.

Great to see guys - and glad you're enjoying your new improved machines!


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## Dunx90

First brew down and no sour shot which I have been getting a lot recently from trying to temp surf. This has to be the best mod you can do to your classic. Hopefully get a lot of consistent shots from now on. Can't thank @MrShades enough for making this kit.


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## maths15

1am. Mrs Maths was getting the arse as I was in the kitchen rather than watching Amy with her. I stopped half way though to appease her. Then started again when she went to bed.


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## maths15

Dunx90 said:


> First brew down and no sour shot which I have been getting a lot recently from trying to temp surf. This has to be the best mod you can do to your classic. Hopefully get a lot of consistent shots from now on. Can't thank @MrShades enough for making this kit.


A great improvement today, i do feel a bit sick as I have had too much coffee!


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## jamieflint

Just a quick summary of my experiences with Mr Shades proprietary PID.

I'm a reasonably practical person with things mechanical but have every little experience assembling electrical components. However, the downloadable manual is very clear, and if read carefully, easy to follow. It is 59 pages short and the whole installation took about 3 hours, one requires few tools, and no technical skills.

I did get a little lost towards the end but Mr Shades promptly replied to my email and all was well. I was a little reluctant to attach an anodised aluminium box with LED readout to the side of my stainless steel Gaggia Classic but reminded myself of the French (?) axiom - that which is technical, is aesthetic.

Did it make for better espresso?

The colour and quantity of crema was unchanged but there was a definite improvement in the quality of the coffee. On a Classic of 2014 vintage, without any other modifications, the flavour was much improved, principally because it was less bitter. YMMV depending on your bean of choice, but in my case it was well worth the money and time.

View attachment 18789


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## labrax

Got mine up and running but bit late to be drinking coffee.

One question: when setting the 'offset' as on page 44 of the manual it states to set the SC value to -0008.

Am I right in saying it should read -08.0 after all the other recommended settings are done (ie the decimal place setting?)

Thanks for any advice.

Peter


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## MrShades

Yes, that's correct Peter.

It all depends on whether you have the pt100 configured when you set SC - if you haven't changed to pt100 then it's -0008 but if you have, and have the additional 0.1c resolution, then it's -08.0

Well done in getting it up and running- hopefully your coffee this morning will have improved!


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## labrax

Thanks, thought that was the case. Set up wasn't too bad, couple or three hours with a few backtracks on the way. A minute's panic when I finally switched on and tried deciphering the readout. It was upside down









All good with first coffee, will be happy if they are consistently as good.

Not steamed any milk yet but that side of install seems to be working fine.

Peter


----------



## Geetarman

That's mine installed too. Instructions are simple to follow and explain everything well.

I took the boiler out as suggested and it's so easy that way, can't see how I'd have managed without doing that.

Did the opv mod too so the machine is currently running through the Auto-tune process, once that's done I'll see about making some coffee......that's why were all here 

Oh and I'd suggest not having a helper like mine!










Our new kitten with his wee bald spot from a reaction to flea treatment before we got him, cute but not in the slightest bit helpful!

Oh and scariest moment was this sight:








think there might be something missing 

Thanks to Adrian for a great bit of kit don't think I'd have even attempted this without it


----------



## olivier

Received mine yesterday. Have not had the time to install it yet but will definitely report back when that's done!


----------



## olivier

And it is now installed! The whole process is really straightforward especially if you remove the boiler (a 5 minutes job) for the first few steps.

Just had a brain fart regarding the way to secure the PID in the aluminium box, but MrShades answered in no time.

Still have some fine tuning to do in order to get the best temp stability, bit this morning's shot already showed an improvement.


----------



## olivier

Quick question for people who have this PID kit installed: could you please list your P, I, D, etc values?

I ran the auto tune function but still get some significant temp variations, as if the PID was lagging. I wanted to check if using someone else's configuration would correct this behaviour.


----------



## noelweston

OK, so put me in the dunce class - mine took 25 1/2 hours to fit and get fully working due to some top class stupidiousness on my part.

That time did include sleeping, swearing, one minor power short (more stupidiousness) and an evening out at work...

The instructions were good, but apparently my brain is upside down... so when I originally wired everything I had 2 wires in wrong places and couldn't figure out why nothing was working. Figured the first error this morning in time for espresso, but then tried to steam some milk and realised that wasn't working. Finally realised that the same error had put a steam cable in the wrong place as well!

So, now it's all working lovely, and as of tomorrow morning I can start experimenting. Thanks to MrShades for the excellent overall service and quality of the kit and instructions.


----------



## noelweston

Oh, and #LFMF - when the manual clearly says the aluminium box splits into 2 parts, don't assume it's all one and start undoing the connections to the PID with the machine plugged in (not on, though - safety first!), touch a random bare wire to a case and wonder why it's all gone dark, dropping the box in the process and then realising it's in 2 bits! D'oh!


----------



## cavem01

I'd also be interested in people's PID Values. I'll post mine when home (although mine is off a Silvia not classic!!)


----------



## GCGlasgow

What's the PID values, would post mine if I knew what to look for?


----------



## MrShades

Go in to the first menu, and just scroll down through the list of parameters...

It should go:

AL1 (ie your steam setting)

AL2 (not used)

ATU (looks like ArU)

P

I

D

Ar

r

OH

...

It's the P, I and D values that are of interest.


----------



## MSM

Install completed and working well.

Had to replace boiler gasket at the same time but all went well (had been leaking for a while by the looks of it).

No way could I have done this without the instructions provided by MrShades.

My PID values are below...

P = 36

I =61

D =15


----------



## noelweston

P = 39.9

i = 50

d = 12


----------



## GCGlasgow

Mine are:

P- 54

I - 71

D - 17

Is that ok?


----------



## Geetarman

P - 38.7

i - 37

d - 9

Edit: re tuned it and now set at:

P - 32.1

I - 67

D - 16


----------



## maths15

P = 39.6

I = 107

D = 26

Don't know if this is good, indifferent or bad. What I do know is that my coffee has improved no end. I would recommend this mod to any Classic owner.


----------



## GCGlasgow

Are the PID values supposed to be similar?


----------



## MrShades

@Krax did some work on the PID parameters on a Classic and can possibly comment on the values that he settled on.


----------



## Dunx90

Guessing everyone is getting different readings as all the boilers act different? Whats everyones system to making a shot? you guys still brewing to warm the cup then waiting for it to set back to 94deg then when it cools and climbs hit brew once its back at 94?


----------



## GCGlasgow

@Dunx90 I've stopped flushing to heat the cup, just use the cup warmer. One of the reasons I wanted the PID was to stop the waiting around whilst temp surfing, flushing first means having to wait for the machine to recover (granted not long). Mines is set to 93deg and with the cup just mildly warm it does for me.


----------



## Asgross

Adrian

I'm sorry but I broke my ipad and with it my manual to your kit

Would you be able to email me another copy ( low resolution like the sample is fine)

Thanks

Alan


----------



## maths15

Brewing BP (before pid)

Leave classic on for at least 20mins. Warm cup and portafilter by running water through. Steam milk. Pull shot. On a good day shots were consistent. On a bad day I had a cup of tea.

AP

Warm portafilter and cup with boiling water for the kettle. Pull shot at 93. Steam milk. The only inconstancy has been when doing a bean change, Union to Rave, and having to dial in the grinder.


----------



## Khashy

Right, I'm sick and tired of sour shots.

PM sent to MrShades.

can't wait to get my hands on the kit.


----------



## Dunx90

You won't regret it











Khashy said:


> Right, I'm sick and tired of sour shots.
> 
> PM sent to MrShades.
> 
> can't wait to get my hands on the kit.


----------



## Khashy

Dunx90 said:


> You won't regret it


Thanks, really hope so


----------



## Asgross

It's a great bit of kit


----------



## GCGlasgow

Not that having a pid will stop sour shots but it helps focus on other variables, Best mod I've made to the classic.


----------



## bad_asspresso

Just finished installing my new mrshades pid kit see attached picture


----------



## MrShades

Nice work - and nice photo, hope the espresso is similarly nice now!


----------



## batfink

Finally got mine installed over the weekend and the improvements were instantly noticeable so thumbs up from me. I had a couple of issues which MrShades was very prompt at dealing with - excellent customer service!

Unlike the default mounting position to the left, circumstances dictate that I needed to mount mine to the right. For anyone wishing to do the same, keep the internals as per the instructions and be aware of your cable routing to exit to the right. There was enough length in the cables for it to reach just fine.

PID values for me (no idea if they are good, bad or indifferent):

P: 33.3

I: 89

D: 17

What is everyone using for their Steam alarm setting? I started with 125 but got nothing more than hot runny milk, 130 was slightly better but I think I've settled on 135 which offers enough power to get the milk swirling/frothing and heating. I don't want to go any higher if I can help it!


----------



## MrShades

You might find this useful...


----------



## Khashy

Got mine today \o/

Thank you MrShades for the super prompt first class postage.

Can't wait to get it all going.


----------



## Dicci

Got my PID kit installed and working at the weekend, very impressed with it so far. MrShades was fantastic, answering all of my stupid questions! Just need to find those perfect espresso beans now..


----------



## Dicci

Quick question to those who have a kit installed. What temperature have you set for the steam? And does a specific temperature make it easier to get decent microfoam? I've recently switched from a 2015 model Classic and can't seem to emulate the microfoam I was getting on it with my older version. Maybe it's just a case of needing a bit more practice..


----------



## MrShades

Put a Silvia wand on it to start with.

I can get good foam on a Classic with just a Silvia wand and no PID so it's easier with a PID.

My Classic steam is at 125 (+8 offset) and my Duetto is at 127


----------



## MSM

I have also set steam to 125 and happy with the results.


----------



## Dicci

Great, thanks. I've got a silvia wand on it already so must just be a lack of practice!


----------



## Dicci

Great, thanks. I've got a silvia wand on it already so must just be a lack of practice!


----------



## batfink

I struggled with 125 compared to pre-PID so I've upped mine to 135.


----------



## decob

Another happy customer of MrShades - got it all set up late last night (after a bodged attempt last weekend). Adrian is great for assistance but carful reading of the manual and you should be fine. 2 words of advice i'd have are, remove the boiler and be very, very, very careful if you use a pliers for the final tightening of the pt100

looking forward to really trying it out tomorrow


----------



## GCGlasgow

You'll notice the difference @decob

I had been looking for a new machine prior to this mod but quite happy sticking with the classic for now.


----------



## MrShades

Thanks for the great feedback @decob and @GCGlasgow - good to see another happy user!

You should try a few more mods - as you can have great fun and improve the functionality of the Classic further.... with the dimmer/pressure profiling - and the automatic shot timer - both simpler and cheaper mods than a PID install.

I use my shot timer a lot - but hardly touch it - so you could easily rear mount it to improve the aesthetics.

I've got another mod in the pipeline that will probably be slightly more challenging - but timer and dimmer are almost plug'n'play.

Always happy to help if anyone needs assistance or advice though...

Cheers!


----------



## decob

Certainly interested in doing the dimmer mod next, timer looks easy enough


----------



## Juarill

PM sent to MrShades


----------



## MrShades

Juarill said:


> PM sent to MrShades ��


Not seen one from you @Juarill... sorry!


----------



## MrShades

decob said:


> Certainly interested in doing the dimmer mod next, timer looks easy enough


The only real issue is changing the pump to an Invensys (which I really think is necessary, but feel free to try it with whatever pump you have initially - as the pumps are £25ish) - and to get the most out of it, it helps if you actually KNOW what the pressure is at any time - so fitting a pressure gauge is also a very useful part of the dimmer mod (and drilling through that stainless isn't quick or easy).


----------



## Juarill

Sent again MrShades


----------



## MrShades

Juarill said:


> Sent again MrShades


Got it - replied - thanks.


----------



## Juarill

Thank you MrShades all sent.


----------



## olivier

I've been quite busy those past weeks, but I can now report that the PID works well. Don't know why I had this stability issue at the beginning. Another calibration did the trick apparently. As I was the first to ask, my PID values are 37.5, 77, and 19. Apparently they vary quite a bit from one person to another but every machine must be a bit different and I guess minute adjustments to those values probably don't make a big difference.

More importantly : the coffee. It's much much much easier to be consistent now with the PID. That was exactly what I was looking for which is great! I still have some sourness issues with my coffee, so I have to check how I can improve that. I've noticed that when fresh water flows in the reservoir the temperature drops quickly before the boiler switches on again. I think I will try to set the desired temp higher than desired, do a quick cooling flush and start pulling the espresso with the boiler already switched on. Maybe this could address this issue.


----------



## Khashy

So, I believe I officially hold the record for the slowest PID install - three weeks. We have been traveling so not all of it is due to laziness.

I have only made a few shots so can't definitively comment on the difference it has made to taste, I'll update when I have been through a dozen shots or so.

I do have to say that @MrShades is a great guy and extremely prompt on any queries.

The kit itself is quality and the instructions are clear for anyone that is going to do this. Took me about 2.5 hours but I'm positive it can be done in one hour if you're more of a handyman than me.

so the question is when @MrShades is going to make a pressure profiling and a shot timer kit for us.

go on @MrShades , make it happen for us all.

thanks,

K.


----------



## abraxas69

Installed yesterday and this really has made a world of difference! Highly recommended and a real pleasure liaising with @MrShades over the past couple of days.


----------



## celticoffee

Hi to all, I'm new to this forum, and also using the Gaggia Classic, however I did the OPV adjust to get 9 bar extraction using a pressure gauge in the steam wand and coffee in the basket. Still not happy with shots... I would love to buy a PID kit to @MrShades, but I can't send PM yet... is there any other way to contact him? Thanks!


----------



## MrShades

As I've said before, if you are new then try introducing yourself in the correct forum and engaging with a few members to get your post count up - then, when you've become more of an active member on here you can PM me and I'd gladly discuss.

As you can appreciate we get a lot of new members on here who join purely to 'take' (advice or items for sale) and never give back - and we really encourage everyone to be at least slightly involved. ;-)


----------



## celticoffee

Thanks @MrShades, good piece of advice!


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

This looks very good, and I wonder if it's the next step on my little gaggia's upgrade path. Obviously the PID helps hold a stable temperature before extraction, but does it also help alleviate the temperature drop mid-shot?

I've been casting a side eye at some of the mods people have tried to pre-heat water before it enters the boiler, but they look a lot more 'off piste' and problematic...


----------



## MrShades

The PID helps mid-shot temp drop to some extent - because the PID reacts to the slight drop in temp caused by the shot being poured much quicker than the (very basic) bimetallic thermostat does on a standard machine. You will still get some drop in displayed boiler temp, but I've also modded my machine to include a brass dispersion plate in an attempt to increase the thermal mass of the boiler (and brew path) components further, so that even if water comes through at 91C then as the brass plate has been held at 93C for a significant amount of time, it should heat the water up again slightly.

Many of the basic mods for preheating water on the Classic mean that all you do is dump a great deal of preheated water back in the tank courtesy of the OPV anyway! There are some effective preheating and even double-boiler mods on Gaggias that WILL properly preheat the water prior to it entering the boiler but they're far from simple.


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

Ah, yes, installing a brass dispersion plate is also on my list, so it's good to hear that helps not just with the heating cycle, but also in controlling temp drop, at least a little bit.

I'm not up for complicated or drastic mods at my level of experience, so I think I'll steer clear of pre-heating for the time being.


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

Ah well, I think I'm going to have to do it







just a bit too frustrating to have so little idea of temp. Shot this morning was bloody brilliant, and up there with the nicest from the machine. This evening, same grind, same warm up time and it was sour as anything.

Will send you a PM MrShades!


----------



## Ryanm

I've been convinced as well - there's lots of great enthusiasm for this. MrShades expect a PM from me as soon as I hit my post count!


----------



## ausin96

Could this kit eventually be linked in to a Raspberry Pi to provide remote link in to startup and shut down etc? Trying to build up to achieve something like this eventually on the classic but want to start with a Pid and add in the ability to remotely switch on/schedule start up etc.

http://ispresso.net


----------



## MrShades

I'd just use this PID kit with a Wemo switch


----------



## Jason1wood

Wemo switch is your best bet for remote switching. Still need one myself but the Verona taking about 10 mins to heat up isn't really a concern


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

Just received mine at work earlier today, and am counting down the hours of admin and irritating my authors til I can get home and install it!


----------



## GBuz

Hi, Would be really interested in this PID so trying to get my post count up so I can PM


----------



## MrShades

Quetzalcoatsy said:


> Just received mine at work earlier today, and am counting down the hours of admin and irritating my authors til I can get home and install it!


Here we go, someone else trying to break the installation record!

Good luck - don't stay up too late... and if you PM me after 11pm then you won't get any help until the morning ;-)


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

Right, we are 1 hour in, and so far I've only managed to take out the boiler, remove the thermostat and a couple of other things. I don't think I'll hit the record, trying to take it nice and slow


----------



## GCGlasgow

yeh take it slowly and take pics as you go.


----------



## Ryanm

Absolutely delighted with mine. Picked it up at 6pm, and it's in, stabilising itself as I type.

Is it normal for it to overshoot (and stay high) until the machine's been on for a while (it's continually sitting around 106-112ºC even with the -8ºC temperature correction suggested in the manual)? I'm probably just being impatient!


----------



## MrShades

Yes, slowly and carefully and don't break the pt100 sensor! At least you took the boiler out - which was a good move - as if you're trying to rush and fit the sensor without removing the boiler then it often results in a broken sensor.

Number the connectors on the main switchboard before you disconnect them - but you're past that stage anyway so you've either done that or not already and this advice is probably pointless.


----------



## MrShades

Ryanm said:


> Absolutely delighted with mine. Picked it up at 6pm, and it's in, stabilising itself as I type.
> 
> Is it normal for it to overshoot (and stay high) until the machine's been on for a while (it's continually sitting around 106-112ºC even with the -8ºC temperature correction suggested in the manual)? I'm probably just being impatient!


If it's set to 93 then it should hit it and stay there pretty well.

Have you run an auto tune?

If you have, then run another! Sometimes they'll tune better from cold - others get better results running it from warm. You'll find a few comments on here with P, I and D values that others have got their machines set to.

You should be able to tell (by looking for the OUT light coming on and off on the PID) when the elements are being turned on - and when the PV is above the SV then the elements shouldn't be on at all really, and the boiler should be cooling. If the OUT light isn't on it boiler temp is still increasing then something is wrong somewhere.

Anyway, run an auto tune again and see if it improves.


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

Phew, well that was interesting. It definitely seemed to speed up near the end, once I was used to some of the things you have to do over and over, but I'm pretty sure I didn't break anything. It seems to measure temperature just fine, and I was surprised at how high it was getting on the overshoot. Currently preheating the machine ready to autotune, and I'm sure it'll be much improved after that.


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

MrShades said:


> Number the connectors on the main switchboard before you disconnect them - but you're past that stage anyway so you've either done that or not already and this advice is probably pointless.


Fortunately, this wasn't my first time taking out the boiler (although I did do it differently this time, taking out the pump as well), as I previously had to replace the OPV, so I fortunately had all my wires numbered


----------



## robti

Just shows I need to check every section of the forum, when everything just works I only have a quick read through the main sections and missed this one.

so enough rambling pm sent


----------



## Ryanm

A second autotune worked wonders - thanks.


----------



## MrShades

Ryanm said:


> A second autotune worked wonders - thanks.


Great - good to hear!

Don't know why they do that sometimes. You're not the first person that it's happened to.

Glad it's all working well and hopefully you're enjoying better coffee already.


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

And here she is. Isn't she lovely? A massive, massive thanks to @MrShades for a brilliant kit, thorough manual and great communication. I really can't recommend this kit enough. I've just pulled my first shot with the PID (life got in the way since installation). I didn't expect miracles, because it's still an entry level prosumer machine, and I've not sunk thousands, but it's the nicest I've had from my classic







not sour at all, which is a great change.

It's also just great to be able to see the temp, and have much more to work on than just a light and a stopwatch. I'm also growing to like the slightly franken-look, and I quite like that it looks so industrial and modular on the side.

A very happy feathered serpent here


----------



## robti

A big thanks to mr shades for all his help with setting this up, had a couple of things that I need to get straight and he answered my pm's right away and explained where I was going wrong. I can highly recommend this from him.

Thanks

Robert


----------



## Horses McFaddon

Hi all

I fitted one of these to my Gaggia Classic last night. The improvement is immediate: less sour tasting espressos, more balanced flavour. The installation took me a couple of hours. Mr Shades instructions are excellent but as he mentions, its really worth taking the time to read them so you dont miss anything. Big thank you to Mr Shades. Very much recommended.

Regards

H.McFaddon


----------



## markf

Had time to hook up the PID tonight! It's a little late for coffee but I hope to taste the effects tomorrow morning!










Thanks MrShades for setting this up!


----------



## markf

Another shot of the PID on the right hand side


----------



## Blerkselmans

Very interesting thread, and definitely MrShades delivers a great solution for Gaggia owners. But from all the enthusiastic responses I can't make out what the real, actual benefit is. I read 'a big improvement' a couple of times but what is this improvement precisely? Is it instantly delivering a better espresso or is it the possibility to better control consistency?


----------



## Asgross

I bought this kit about 5 months ago

The improvements are :-

More powerful steam for milk drinks

Ability to brew shots at different temps

improved temp stability

these in my opinion put the classic above its basic state and put off upgraditus

- I'm useless at Diy and mr shades showed limitless patience and help to me over a weekend


----------



## Blerkselmans

Asgross said:


> I bought this kit about 5 months ago
> 
> The improvements are :-
> 
> More powerful steam for milk drinks
> 
> Ability to brew shots at different temps
> 
> improved temp stability
> 
> these in my opinion put the classic above its basic state and put off upgraditus
> 
> - I'm useless at Diy and mr shades showed limitless patience and help to me over a weekend


Thank you, these are surely improvements and it definitely upgrades the Classic but in the end it's about what's in the cup and I'd like to learn if you experiences a better taste.

In most replies I read about better temp stability and of course it is great not to be bothered with temp surfing and such, you want to be in control, not just influencing the taste.

Temp stability is surely a very important condition for a better result but will the PID deliver the great taste one is looking for?


----------



## Asgross

My idea of a better tasting shot may not be yours

pulling a shot at 90 degrees vs 96 may make an ok drink to me become a great one

But it's not blind tasting - I'm pulling my own shots - I'm sure I influence myself

but I enjoy constantly playing with grind / recipe / beans etc

And to me the temp makes big difference to the taste

But you can not under estimate the grinder or your own technique/ beans etc all have a big influence on the taste


----------



## Blerkselmans

Excellent, I do think we're on the same page. It's all about playing with all the variables and of course this influences how you value the results. But when you say ¨... And to me the temp makes big difference to the taste...¨ then this is what I was looking for.

Just wanted to be sure that the enthusiasm was also coming from the taste and not just from a minor temp drop during the pull.


----------



## Asgross

I taste every shot and think

can I improve the taste ?

What can I do that will help ?

I think about the temp ( recipe/grind / tamp/ beans / roaster ..)

For me this pid is integral to this


----------



## Blerkselmans

Clear, agree, thanks!


----------



## Bruntino

Hi MrShades, I DMd you last night, but I'm starting to wonder if I may have sent it within TapaTalk, rather than the forum. It was late, I'd not drunk enough coffee...

Dan


----------



## geedee

Just to say that I've signed up to the forum today on the back of reading this wealth of information. I've had a Classic for a while and often considered PID but it just seemed too much like hard work... from the other posts here it looks like this kit would be perfect for me!

(just got to get the post count up now, then I think I'll be sending MrShades a PM....)


----------



## geedee

I'm also glad to see on reading the entire thread that people recommend taking the boiler out&#8230; I got the machine second hand and it had clearly not been cared for too well (was filthy), and I live in a very hard water area; despite now-regular backflushing and descaling I've never been inside the boiler so it'll be a good excuse to take the boiler out, open it up and get somewhat medieval on the limescale&#8230;


----------



## MrShades

Getting the boiler out is easy...

However, don't underestimate how tough it can be to separate the boiler on an older/well used machine. Just sayin'

Order a new set of seals (eBay) before you start and be prepared to have a tough time with the hex bolts holding it all together!

Good luck!


----------



## geedee

Haha, thanks for the warning (I think!). Just checked and it's dated May 2000 on the sticker on the bottom. Prior to my acquiring tenure in 2012 I doubt it had ever been cleaned, let alone descaled. Now it makes a decent brew. Looks like I might have my work cut out&#8230;

Although to bring it back on-topic, I'm looking forward to it making a much better brew once I have a PID  PM incoming....


----------



## MSM

Mine was quite a mess in the boiler... I replaced the boiler gasket while I was installing the PID.









It did take a lot of effort to take it apart.


----------



## geedee

Received my PID kit from Adrian earlier this week, and fitted it last night. (this is what passes for a fun Friday night nowadays. I think I'm getting old...)

Just running an auto-tune now, but a quick query that sprung to mind: when auto-tuning, should I leave the portafilter in the group or remove it? Seems like it would affect the thermal capacity of the system, and when I'm pulling a shot it's obviously there, so I've left it in place. Any thoughts, or does it make very little difference?


----------



## MrShades

Good question.... I'd say leave the PF on there. As you say it would normally be there, so it's more accurately representing real use.

In practice it probably makes v little difference.

Glad you have it all fitted - and I hope you enjoyed doing so, and you're looking forward to a better cup of coffee this morning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## geedee

Great stuff. I've now had a good few coffees from the newly-PIDed machine, and it's surpassed expectations.

The consistency is right there, and the shots taste consistently good. (I never bothered with temperature-surfing before so it was very hit-and-miss).

Really glad I bit the bullet and installed! Thanks MrShades for a fantastic kit.

Random question: I keep my coffee stuff in our uninsulated lean-to on the side of the house, (not ideal I know but it's not allowed in the kitchen!) so the ambient temperature varies during the course of the year. In the mornings in winter it can get down to single digits Celsius, and in summer it can be a greenhouse.

I'm guessing the ambient temp has a bearing on the PID's calculations, as on a cold morning the system will lose heat a lot quicker, so in the forum's opinion should I re-autotune depending on the season?

Second question: what dictates the illumination of the 'heating' neon in a PIDed classic? Previously I'm guessing it was just inline with the bimetal thermostat, so I expected once I PIDed that it'd be flicking on and off a lot quicker, or even just looking dimmer, with the duty cycle of the PID (I'm assuming the PID does some kind of PWM to the boiler to hit the desired temp). But it seems to go on and off seemingly at random still. I'm ignoring it and instead staring at the digital display but it'd be good to know what's causing it to light.

Thanks all!


----------



## MrShades

You're full of fun questions!

Yes, in theory a large swing in ambient temp will create issues - but if the machine has properly warmed up then you could probably assume that the boiler (inside a warm case) was probably a similar heat capacity come what may 'outside' the case - so I wouldn't worry about it.

Brew ready light should still be a reverse of the power being applied to the heating elements - so the opposite of the OUT light on the PID (ie when the elements are on, the ready light goes off; and vice versa).

Thanks for the positive report and I'm glad it's all going well for you!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MrShades

Just a quick FYI for anyone interested in this kit, there's now an additional option - of a smaller (slightly more expensive) controller, that looks like this:



















Full details are here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?31342-MrShades-Gaggia-Classic-PID-Kit-%281-32DIN%29-Complete-PID-kit-with-full-guide-%A394&p=417906#post417906


----------



## standas

I was thinking about upgrading to new machine, but now I am thinking about upgrading my Classic. Can you send to Slovakia?


----------



## MrShades

standas said:


> I was thinking about upgrading to new machine, but now I am thinking about upgrading my Classic. Can you send to Slovakia?


I'll send anywhere if you're happy to pay the postage!


----------



## michaelm

Whats the waiting time for these at the minute?


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## MrShades

michaelm said:


> Whats the waiting time for these at the minute?


I'm on holiday until Monday, but could post on Tuesday via Royal Mail 1st Claas


----------



## michaelm

MrShades said:


> I'm on holiday until Monday, but could post on Tuesday via Royal Mail 1st Claas


As fast as that? Okay, I'll need to order a set of seals etc first so I'll get back to you by tomorrow.


----------



## MrShades

michaelm said:


> As fast as that? Okay, I'll need to order a set of seals etc first so I'll get back to you by tomorrow.


Just drop me a PM - but check out my other thread (linked to above) for the new option for the 1/32DIN PID as well. Seems to be quite well liked.

Both versions are currently ready to ship.


----------



## Mmiah

Thank you MrShades

Sent a pm late on Wednesday, Adrian replied promptly and answered all my questions. Comfirmed my order. He posted it out in the morning and kept me up to date with the progress. Arrived next day.

Took me just over an hour to install. Cleaned up the machine and ran the auto tune.

Got the pid set to 93 for brew and 135 for steam

During the brew process the temperature barely changed and the steam power is so much better

The pid has restored my love for coffee

When i first bought my gaggia classic and mignon grinder a part of me felt like i had wasted a lot of money as the coffee wasnt worth what i had spent. I kept blaming the beans and my own skills. But now with the pid even taylors beans from morrisons taste amazing. And the power of the steam has given my flat white a better texture.

For those of you in two minds... This is a must have mod

The package put together by Adrian is great value for money.

The instructions provided are Excellent

Ps the adhesive for the pid is impressive. I attached the box to the side of my classic and lifted the whole machine off the table by it


----------



## jazlichy

Hello

My first post on the forum! Quick introduction, I have had a Gaggia Classic now for about 3 years, have done the OPV and Silvia steam wand mods. It's not the 2015 model, btw. I've attempted various grind fineness/coarseness settings/tamping to achieve a 2oz shot in 25 sec, but still pulling unpleasant bitter shots consistently. I've persevered as previous cheaper machines have created better tasting shots, so assumed it was my technique. My grinder is a Krups burr type, not amazing, but it's turned out more than acceptable tasting shots on prev espresso machines to my unrefined pallet.









I then read on this forum about the polystyrene cup test, which showed my brew temps were 80-85.C. I tried temp surfing with the steam switch, which I found hit and miss, but got me closer to the 93.C target temp I hoped for. However it generated loads of steam too which created a burnt taste at times.









So to keep it relevant to this thread, I'm now looking at Adrian's PIDs for temp stability & control. I have one question, apologies if it's been covered, I've not found an answer in the PID discussions so far. I see lots of discussions about the water temp in the boiler, but how does this translate to the brew temp after the PID upgrade? Has anyone tried the polystyrene cup test or something similar?

I'm at the point where I'm trying to decide whether to abandon the Classic in preference of a better machine or press on if a PID can address or help resolve my bitter shot issue. I hear so many people singing the praises of the Classic, I can't help feel I must be within reach of the answer.

Regards

Jaz


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## nicholasj

This looks the business indeed. I need to do some serious work on my old Classic first!

And if that doesn't work then does MrShades sell a PID for a Silvia? I saw something much earlier on here about a Silvia PID, but I don't think it was a complete set up.


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## MrShades

I don't do a Silvia kit - primarily because I don't own one so can't translate the Gaggia one to the Silvia. Parts would be identical, other than the temp sensor in some Silvias - but some of the connectors and wiring lengths may need to be different too.

If someone were to lend me a Silvia for a while then it'd be a simple job to make a kit, but I don't have one now.


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## nicholasj

MrShades said:


> I don't do a Silvia kit - primarily because I don't own one so can't translate the Gaggia one to the Silvia. Parts would be identical, other than the temp sensor in some Silvias - but some of the connectors and wiring lengths may need to be different too.
> 
> If someone were to lend me a Silvia for a while then it'd be a simple job to make a kit, but I don't have one now.


Thank you. I've seen you say this earlier now.

Wish I could help as my new Silvia is en route and I'd love to PID it! But later it seems.

cheers.


----------



## johnealey

@MrShades , I may be able to help here as have a Silvia V3 sitting on the side that really does nothing more than lurk / sulk at the moment which you are more than welcome to use as a testbed for PID'ing if it helps. Been meaning to look at PID'ing as aproject for a while but really tied up with other coffee related projects at the moment so taken a huge back seat.

Next time you visiting the "other side" of Pershore road give me a shout and welcome to collect, will PM you contact details, combine with a roast on the dalian if you like?

John


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## MrShades

Thanks @johnealey - very kind offer and have PMd you accordingly.


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## Dave M

I am new to these forums and also to "proper" coffee making. I have just bought off eBay a 2014 Classic, it the R19303/11 which to my knowledge is the last of the "old" Classic's. Is this right?

I also have a Baratza Encore grinder. How would you rate this grinder? Is is "good enough" or is a better one recommended?

And, also, I think I know what a PID kit does, allows you to brew at the correct temperature. Is this right? And, if so, does this mean that the Classic does not heat up to that correct temperature or does it heat up too high?


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## jimbojohn55

If it has a removable silver tube into the corner of the drip tray then its the older model, don't know much about the Encore although people are getting excited about the Sette which they have just produced, my thoughts are that its possible to get better coffee with a better grinder such as a jolly, but if its working for you and grind fine enough to put 14g in the basket then extract 30g out in 30 seconds then your doing ok,


----------



## Dave M

jimbojohn55 said:


> If it has a removable silver tube into the corner of the drip tray then its the older model, don't know much about the Encore although people are getting excited about the Sette which they have just produced, my thoughts are that its possible to get better coffee with a better grinder such as a jolly, but if its working for you and grind fine enough to put 14g in the basket then extract 30g out in 30 seconds then your doing ok,


Yes, it has the silver tube so 

You've reminded me of another question. Is it 30g of beans or the grinds? Also, any weighing scales recommendations ? Thanks.


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## jimbojohn55

Hi dave will send you a PM


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## supersoup

I've been a lurker on this forum for quite some time, and I've looked at PID'ing my machine in the past, but always dismissed it as too complicated and potentially fatal for my beloved Classic, but recently I've noticed my brew temperature seems a little off (around 60c water direct from the shower screen, even after 20 mins idle), so I thought I'd finally set about fixing the problem for good. Your sample manual looks very thorough and clear, and the effort you've gone to on this kit has finally convinced me to do it, so please let me know if you're still selling. Thanks!

(I won't be able to PM at this stage as this is my first post)


----------



## MrShades

supersoup said:


> I've been a lurker on this forum for quite some time, and I've looked at PID'ing my machine in the past, but always dismissed it as too complicated and potentially fatal for my beloved Classic, but recently I've noticed my brew temperature seems a little off (around 60c water direct from the shower screen, even after 20 mins idle), so I thought I'd finally set about fixing the problem for good. Your sample manual looks very thorough and clear, and the effort you've gone to on this kit has finally convinced me to do it, so please let me know if you're still selling. Thanks!
> 
> (I won't be able to PM at this stage as this is my first post)


Thanks for your post and interest.

Yes - very much still selling the kits, though check out both versions - 1/16DIN and 1/32DIN - as the smaller 1/32DIN version is proving much more popular these days.

They're available on here to anyone that can PM me - as I don't want to publish my contact details on a public forum and I'd like to keep these prices for proper forum members.

Hence when you've got to the point of being able to PM me - either via Tapatalk ( ;-) ) or directly on here - then I'll happily let you know how to purchase one ASAP

Thanks!


----------



## supersoup

Excellent, sounds great! I'll do that as soon as possible.

My only concern at this stage is space, as it's a little tight at the moment. My grinder sits to the left and the Classic is close to the wall behind, so ideally the Rex controller would need to fit at the front on the underside of the machine, between the Silvia wand and group head, or perhaps mounted at the top right. Is that plausible? Can the second box (SSR?) fit inside the case or will that need to be mounted at the back of the machine?

Apologies for the barrage of questions! Thanks!

Edit: Duh... I'm always taking the water tank out, so I'm not sure why I didn't realise the obvious problem there!


----------



## MrShades

If I were in your situation, then I'd contemplate actually mounting the PID controller flat, vertically on the rear of the Classic - as once you've set and done your initial fiddling you don't really need to touch it or use it. Install it in "Stealth mode" ;-) It'll take up about as much additional rear space as the mains lead does at the back -so you should have space. Alternatively mount it vertically rathern than horizontally on the side. I'm certain that it won't fit between group head and steam wand!

Everything else (ie the two SSRs) are all mounted internally inside the Classic, so no problem there.


----------



## supersoup

Sounds good! I'll make some space if I have to, as "Stealth mode" definitely appeals







I'll PM you soon!


----------



## johnjcamilleri

I bought this kit recently and I'm in the process of installing it. Just a side-question, why are the SSR's so huge? I don't know much about electronics but from what I could gather their behaviour is pretty simple. I found it strange that they should be almost as large as the PID controller itself! Does someone care to enlighten me? Thanks!


----------



## supersoup

All fitted and working beautifully! I can't compliment MrShades enough for taking the time to put together this kit. The manual, the parts, the overall service was fantastic. Clearly the result of testing and fine-tuning. Very straightforward, and very thorough. He was always available to answer my questions, and sent the PDF manual as soon as payment was made, so I had chance to read through the whole 'operation' before the kit arrived.

I was also surprised at how small everything was. A very clean installation. It took at least a couple of hours for me to finish, but I'm the kind of person that reads something at least twice before I do anything. Especially when it concerns my coffee machine! Ha.

I enjoy some soldering, modding and general DIY, but I would have had almost no chance putting this together without the manual!

On the performance - the steam power alone is a huge improvement. With the advised settings (137c) I'm getting tons of pressure, which remains steady throughout (thanks to the far more accurate thermostat kicking in much earlier). It takes half the time to steam milk now, and is far more consistent than before. It was always a bit of a lottery with the stock setup. Sometimes good pressure to start with, but always a lull towards the middle/end.

The general PID performance is also very good. Mine is overshooting when starting cold, but settles within a couple of minutes, and remains 0.1c accurate (as far as the readings go at least). The joy of this setup though, is that you're free to adjust the settings until you get the results you want. No more "leave it for 40 minutes, run the pump for *number* seconds until the element kicks in" etc.

In response to @johnjcamilleri - I suspect that the SSR's are relatively large because they get warm, and perhaps need ample surface area to dissipate the heat generated when they work. Just a guess though!

Any way, thanks @MrShades! (do you have any advice re the PID settings and overshooting?)


----------



## MrShades

supersoup said:


> All fitted and working beautifully! I can't compliment MrShades enough for taking the time to put together this kit. The manual, the parts, the overall service was fantastic. Clearly the result of testing and fine-tuning. Very straightforward, and very thorough. He was always available to answer my questions, and sent the PDF manual as soon as payment was made, so I had chance to read through the whole 'operation' before the kit arrived.
> 
> I was also surprised at how small everything was. A very clean installation. It took at least a couple of hours for me to finish, but I'm the kind of person that reads something at least twice before I do anything. Especially when it concerns my coffee machine! Ha.
> 
> I enjoy some soldering, modding and general DIY, but I would have had almost no chance putting this together without the manual!
> 
> On the performance - the steam power alone is a huge improvement. With the advised settings (137c) I'm getting tons of pressure, which remains steady throughout (thanks to the far more accurate thermostat kicking in much earlier). It takes half the time to steam milk now, and is far more consistent than before. It was always a bit of a lottery with the stock setup. Sometimes good pressure to start with, but always a lull towards the middle/end.
> 
> The general PID performance is also very good. Mine is overshooting when starting cold, but settles within a couple of minutes, and remains 0.1c accurate (as far as the readings go at least). The joy of this setup though, is that you're free to adjust the settings until you get the results you want. No more "leave it for 40 minutes, run the pump for *number* seconds until the element kicks in" etc.
> 
> In response to @johnjcamilleri - I suspect that the SSR's are relatively large because they get warm, and perhaps need ample surface area to dissipate the heat generated when they work. Just a guess though!
> 
> Any way, thanks @MrShades! (do you have any advice re the PID settings and overshooting?)


Many thanks @supersoup - and I'm very glad that youve enjoyed fitting the kit and are finding some great improvements in the steam power and temp stability - that's exactly what its for!

Ditto to your comment to @johnjcamilleri - I suspect that as they can take some high currents, they need some large terminals and large internal circuits to carry 40A - and can also then generate some reasonable heat. 40A/240V = 9600W peak load... and if even some of that gets turned into heat then it'll get hot if you load it.

PID settings - there's no "100% correct" answer to PID settings. If you have it set so that it's quick to recover and intrashot temp isn't too badly affected then it'll tend to overshoot from cold until its properly stable. If you want to remove the overshoot then it typically means using less agressive values and hence it doesnt overshoot too much (if at all) from cold, but also will be relatively slower to recover and react. Personally I prefer a little overshoot from cold until the machine properly stabilises, and then I'm happy that the recovery during and after puilling a shot is good.

Anyway - enjoy your new improved Classic, the PID does take it to another level.


----------



## luke

Hey @MrShades I'm considering your PID upgrade at some point in the not too distant future. I was wondering how quickly a modded machine gets up to temperature (from cold) on average? Also how does the installation compare to this Silvia PID installation?





 (I thought this seemed a little complex)


----------



## MrShades

luke said:


> Hey @MrShades I'm considering your PID upgrade at some point in the not too distant future. I was wondering how quickly a modded machine gets up to temperature (from cold) on average? Also how does the installation compare to this Silvia PID installation?


It's probably no different to a standard machine when it comes to heating up. I'd always recommend leaving a Classic for at least 15mins to properly warm up anyway - dont just go by the "ready" light as you'll have lots of cold metal for the hot water to pass through!

With a PID you have to install around 6 wires for the brew kit - and another 5 wires for the steam stuff.... so not too tricky, and certainly accessing everything ad routing cables, etc. is much much easier on the Classic than it is on the Silvia.


----------



## luke

MrShades said:


> It's probably no different to a standard machine when it comes to heating up. I'd always recommend leaving a Classic for at least 15mins to properly warm up anyway - dont just go by the "ready" light as you'll have lots of cold metal for the hot water to pass through!
> 
> With a PID you have to install around 6 wires for the brew kit - and another 5 wires for the steam stuff.... so not too tricky, and certainly accessing everything ad routing cables, etc. is much much easier on the Classic than it is on the Silvia.


Ace - Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## johnjcamilleri

I just finished installing this PID mod on my Gaggia Classic today, and it works great! The kit itself is really well put together and makes a potentially daunting task accessible to many. As everyone has said, @MrShades is extremely helpful. I mounted the controller at the back of the machine as I don't like it to stick out of the side:









I think it looks very neat, inconspicuous but also easy to read when I need it!

I'm now in the process of adjusting my shot-pulling workflow which used to include some very rudimentary temp surfing.

If you set the temp to say 93º, the machine reaches that and stabilises. Just before the shot I do two things: take the portafilter away to fill it with coffee, and quickly flush some water through the group head. Both of these actions will affect the boiler temp. Not to mention putting the portafilter back in place. When should I pull the shot? Should I wait until it reaches my SV again?


----------



## GCGlasgow

Why are you flushing water through? its not needed and will only alter the temp, the PID keeps it stable.


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## johnjcamilleri

GCGlasgow said:


> Why are you flushing water through?


Hmm. I thought it was standard procedure by baristas, to clear any grinds from a previous shot I suppose. But I guess that doesn't really apply in my case.

I also thought it was good to get "fresh water" into the boiler, but I suppose I could do that when turning on the machine rather than just before pulling the shot.


----------



## graphium

Hello, I have been following this thread for some time now, and I've looked at PID'ing my machine, but I still can't decide should I pull the trigger on this mod as I only use my Gaggia on the weekends or days off. Does it make that much difference in coffee flavor?


----------



## graphium

That was a silly question, anyway I have found the answer. And actually I think that if my Gaggia had a PID I would probably use it everyday.


----------



## MrShades

Quick update:

I've recently changed the design of the case for the 1/16 DIN kit - it's almost the same as the original case but is now smooth finish, and the PID controller fits within the case either way round (so you can have it horizontal or vertical).

I'll update the initial post and include pics of the new case, but here's a few anyway.

I hope you like it....


----------



## coffeechap

Nice, looks better in my opinion and should look better in the vertical position


----------



## jimbojohn55

Looks great - much less heat sink and more purposeful - stainless steel an option?


----------



## destiny

MrShades, this may have been asked previously but what's the reason for having one ssr for brew and one for steam in your kit?


----------



## rey_one

johnjcamilleri said:


> I just finished installing this PID mod on my Gaggia Classic today, and it works great! The kit itself is really well put together and makes a potentially daunting task accessible to many. As everyone has said, @MrShades is extremely helpful. I mounted the controller at the back of the machine as I don't like it to stick out of the side:
> 
> View attachment 24477
> View attachment 24478


Really like this approach to hide the case!

Has someone else tried to hide the PID this way or to integrate it (destructive) into the Gaggia and has not yet posted it ..?









Cheers,

rey_one


----------



## MrShades

jimbojohn55 said:


> Looks great - much less heat sink and more purposeful - stainless steel an option?


I could have stainless as an option - but it's more difficult and costly to produce, and to work, and the cost would be crazy.... so in the interest of keeping the cost of these cases 'reasonable' a silver anodized aluminium finish is the only viable one.

As I said in one of my posts, ages ago, I contacted a few UK based case manufacturers - to see if they could take an off-the-shelf aluminium case and customise it with these cutouts etc. The cheapest quote I received to supply and customise cases, for an initial order fo about 50 units, was around £100 a case. Bonkers. I get these made in China, and it's not cheap - but it's nothing like that expensive!


----------



## MrShades

destiny said:


> MrShades, this may have been asked previously but what's the reason for having one ssr for brew and one for steam in your kit?


It's the easiest way to do it. In a nutshell - the PID output is a switched DC voltage, and hence requires a DC switched SSR. The steam circuit (switches a 240V feed, and hence requires an AC switched SSR.

An alternative way to do it is to use a single DC SSR and then fit a small AC-DC transformer (low voltage lighting transformer / mobile phone charger, etc.) - but these are larger and more costly than an additional SSR, so that's the method I use.


----------



## destiny

Ah, so your controller has two outputs and only one is dc. Ok, thanks.


----------



## graphium

I finished installing the PID on my Gaggia Classic yesterday. The improvement is immediate, and honestly, it's surpassed expectations.*

The installation took me a couple of hours. I mounted the controller vertically on the rear of my Classic. I really like the new case. I decided to drill a hole in Gaggia and the case to put the wires through, so they aren't visible. I have also used some grommets as spacers between the rear of the Gaggia and the case as I didn't want to cover rear vents.

Mr Shades instructions are very clear, however, its really worth taking the time to read them few times. Thanks, Mr Shades.


----------



## graphium




----------



## Maurizio

very nice done!


----------



## AndyZap

I've just finished the installation on my Gaggia Baby Classic. The Baby does not have much space inside, so I have a separate box for the SSRs, with the PID box on the top of it.

Very pleased with the kit, and very grateful to MrShades for all his help and support. 5 stars!


----------



## MrShades

AndyZap said:


> I've just finished the installation on my Gaggia Baby Classic. The Baby does not have much space inside, so I have a separate box for the SSRs, with the PID box on the top of it.
> 
> Very pleased with the kit, and very grateful to MrShades for all his help and support. 5 stars!
> 
> View attachment 25358


Looking good - well done!

Hopefully the wires were all plenty long enough - and that SSR box looks ideal. Nice work.


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

@graphium: Looks, great. That's exactly the position in which I plan to mount the PID.

Could you just be so kind to let me know how you got it fixed on the CC case? Looks like you didn't use the sticky tape provided by Adrian.


----------



## graphium

Thanks,

Sure, you are right - I did not use the tape.

I drilled three holes in the PID case (2 for fixing, 1 for cables).Then I used few grommets to space the case slightly off the Gaggia back, and I put the screws through: pid case -> grommets -> gaggia rear vents.

(I used earth studs so I did not have to run the earth wire)*


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

Pretty nice your solution, graphium. Thanks a lot for the photo.

Before definitely making my mind up how to fix the PID it would be nice to know if Adrian's sticky tape can be spotlessly removable if necessary.


----------



## MrShades

OnlyLatteorwhat? said:


> Pretty nice your solution, graphium. Thanks a lot for the photo.
> 
> Before definitely making my mind up how to fix the PID it would be nice to know if Adrian's sticky tape can be spotlessly removable if necessary.


It can be removed, yes - but remember that it's designed to stick and not come off.... so it's not easy!


----------



## Mmiah

Update: been using this kit since May 2016, still working with no issues, shown to be reliable. i use my gaggia classic every day to make my coffee in the morning for work, steam 400ml of milk with ease, pour it into my large travel mug as the coffee at work is no good, in the evenings more coffee and hot chocolate for the family, the added power to the steam is great when i have to make multiple drinks for the whole family, really brings the gaggia classic to another level, worth every penny

thanks again MrShades

only problem now is people keep coming to my house for me to make them coffee because its that good


----------



## Mmiah

MrShades said:


> It can be removed, yes - but remember that it's designed to stick and not come off.... so it's not easy!


 it does stick well, after almost a year its still stuck on strong, can lift the whole weight of the gaggia classic by holding the pid, solid build quality of the case supplied with the pid and excellent tape


----------



## Finster76

Mr shades

Newbie here to the world of the gaggia classic. I recently picked up an ebay purchase of one of the old classic coffee models with front badge. Interested in pid upgrade. Could you message me with details please. Best regards lee.


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

Here finally are the installation pics of my CC with Adrian's pid.

I confirm that the whole installation process went totally smooth thanks to the excellent manual provided by Adrian.

It was only at the end that I wasn't 100% sure of how to understand the wording in the manual but my email to get confirmation of my understanding was answered nearly immediately even though Adrian was on holidays at that time. Thanks again for the great support.

With respect to the positioning of the pid I finally decided to install it horizontally as the display can easily be read due to the height added by the knocking case the CC stands on. So there's no additional element added to the 'classic' front of the Classic







.

When it comes to the functionality I join the other users by saying that it's incredible to see at which level the steaming performance is increased thanks to the pid. Another great improvement is to start brewing always at the same and exactly pre-defined temperature which is a great advantage when using different beans. Nevertheless I'm surprised to see that the temperature decreases by about 7-8 degrees C. during the roughly 25 sec. of brewing.

May I kindly ask for confirmation, Adrian, that this is in the normal range?

Finally I'd like to encourage all CC users to make this step and to install MrShades' pid. It's incredible to see the increased performance of the little gem that your CC can turn into.


----------



## shamster

I just purchased MrShades PID kit and installed it on my 2 year old Gaggia Classic. I agree with other people, purchase was super smooth and prompt. The instructions were fantastic and the whole kit is real quality. Took me around 2.5 hours to install (I'm about intermediate handy but nothing special). Worked like a charm. Had a question about wiring and MrShades was on hand to save the day. Very responsive and just a very nice person! He really cares about the product he sells you and genuinely wants you to do well from it. Thank you Mr. Shades. I shall be toasting your kindness with many shots to come!


----------



## MrShades

Finster76 said:


> Mr shades
> 
> Newbie here to the world of the gaggia classic. I recently picked up an ebay purchase of one of the old classic coffee models with front badge. Interested in pid upgrade. Could you message me with details please. Best regards lee.


Hi Lee,

Thanks for your post... my kit is designed to help people on this forum to fit a PID to a Classic quickly and easily. Hence I try to encourage anyone wanting one of these kits to actually becoming an active member of this forum - before they can access the PM function, and hence contact me and purchase one.

I'd be very glad to help you - but please get your post count up from "1" and engage with the community on here (even a post introducing yourself would help get you to 2) and then drop me a PM when you can.

Welcome to CFUK, but please become part of the community and reap all of the benefits that doing so brings.

Adrian


----------



## Drone

After buying your kit many months ago, today is PID Day - maybe I should have set up live-streaming. 30 minutes to get the guts out rather than the suggested 5, but I have previous form in wrecking a GC 2015 so everything is getting triple-checked, every connector coded and photographed. Good thing we no longer need to send our film rolls to Boots the Chemist?

Putting the PID in at the moment, momentary scare as the PID in the manual (P23) does not look like the PID in my hand - no black wires. But I'll soldier on.


----------



## MrShades

Drone said:


> After buying your kit many months ago, today is PID Day - maybe I should have set up live-streaming. 30 minutes to get the guts out rather than the suggested 5, but I have previous form in wrecking a GC 2015 so everything is getting triple-checked, every connector coded and photographed. Good thing we no longer need to send our film rolls to Boots the Chemist?
> 
> Putting the PID in at the moment, momentary scare as the PID in the manual (P23) does not look like the PID in my hand - no black wires. But I'll soldier on.


Well, better late than never!

The photo on P23 shows the pt100 sensor - and yes, that's a photo of an older version that had black wire rather than the current orange ones - all does the same job though, and it's the two red wires and single white wire that's within the black (or orange in the current case) sleeving that really matter.

Good luck, and I'm here to help if you have any questions or problems

Enjoy!


----------



## Richard_severn

Fitted mine at the weekend. It holds the temperature so well! Always seems to overshoot on initial heating but once it's on I leave it on for about 8hours and unless I'm brewing it doesn't deviate more than 0.5 up or down. Great kit Adrian everyone who owns a classic should have it fitted!


----------



## Groke

Richard_severn said:


> Fitted mine at the weekend. It holds the temperature so well! Always seems to overshoot on initial heating but once it's on I leave it on for about 8hours and unless I'm brewing it doesn't deviate more than 0.5 up or down. Great kit Adrian everyone who owns a classic should have it fitted!


Completely agree. Kit arrived the day after shipping and the instructions were so comprehensive I couldn't really go wrong. Took me most of the evening - but that was more down to the 4 month-old than the PID installation process..

Temp holds very nicely a few minutes after the initial overshoot described above and steam pressure is so much better than before. First espresso did taste much smoother too (accepting that that could be psychological). Thanks Adrian - well chuffed with this kit!


----------



## MrShades

Groke said:


> Completely agree. Kit arrived the day after shipping and the instructions were so comprehensive I couldn't really go wrong. Took me most of the evening - but that was more down to the 4 month-old than the PID installation process..
> 
> Temp holds very nicely a few minutes after the initial overshoot described above and steam pressure is so much better than before. First espresso did taste much smoother too (accepting that that could be psychological). Thanks Adrian - well chuffed with this kit!


My work here is done... ;-)

Thanks for the positive report, and I'm glad you have everything installed quickly and easily - that's the whole reason for making the kit, so that anyone can enjoy the added value that a PID controlled Classic brings. It transforms the machine....and with a 4month-old I'm sure you need a regular decent espresso hit!


----------



## Drone

Advice, please . . .

After quite a break, finished the wiring this afternoon and tried to set up the PID.

This is about my fourth attempt to troubleshoot:

Switch on Gaggia, leaving other two front switches off. GC power light does *not* come on but there is a click and the PID displays '93' (I have been getting steam out of it earlier). Both PID signal lights (OUT and AL) are red.

Tried to flush out the hot water but no GC control switches (including steam control knob) do anything. No sounds from in the machine. PID now reads '95'.

Press SET on PID and change this to 0001. Display says 'Su' but I just press a PID button to bring up END and then SET.

PID is clearly in firm control of my GC. Reading about 96. I'm not going to get a coffee tonight, am I?

Lovely kit but I have previous form in sending electronic equipment to that great recyler in the sky.


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## MrShades

Drone said:


> Advice, please . . .
> 
> After quite a break, finished the wiring this afternoon and tried to set up the PID.
> 
> This is about my fourth attempt to troubleshoot:
> 
> Switch on Gaggia, leaving other two front switches off. GC power light does *not* come on but there is a click and the PID displays '93' (I have been getting steam out of it earlier). Both PID signal lights (OUT and AL) are red.
> 
> Tried to flush out the hot water but no GC control switches (including steam control knob) do anything. No sounds from in the machine. PID now reads '95'.
> 
> Press SET on PID and change this to 0001. Display says 'Su' but I just press a PID button to bring up END and then SET.
> 
> PID is clearly in firm control of my GC. Reading about 96. I'm not going to get a coffee tonight, am I?
> 
> Lovely kit but I have previous form in sending electronic equipment to that great recyler in the sky.


Sounds like you've got some serious wiring issues going on there.... but I'll reply to your PM and help you on your way - have no fear, help is here!


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## Drone

MrShades said:


> Sounds like you've got some serious wiring issues going on there.... but I'll reply to your PM and help you on your way - have no fear, help is here!


Thanks - your support for the project is legendary - meanwhile I'll open up the PID again and trace all the wiring back.


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## dev

I've order a kit through ebay and I'm hoping you can mail it before you go on vacation. Thanks in advance.


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## MrShades

dev said:


> I've order a kit through ebay and I'm hoping you can mail it before you go on vacation. Thanks in advance.


It depends... who are you? (If 610148 is part of your address, then it shipped this morning!)


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## dev

Thanks for the promptitude and patience on ebay messaging.


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## rob177palmer

MrShades - pls can you resend me the instruction PDF? I seem to have deleted it since installing.

I want to study the wiring diagram again - my issue is that the espresso PID is working perfectly, but flicking the steam switch has no impact - the boiler just remains at espresso temp.

I have taken the top off and the steam relay is not getting power (the red LED is not lighting). There are no obvious loose cables and no obvious short circuits in the wiring sheaths this time!!

If the wiring seems in place then I wonder if I need to buy a new steam relay, or possible the actual front switch has somehow broken? I rarely steam milk and i just noticed one day that it no longer heats to steaming temp.

Any ideas for where to start appreciated!

rob


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## Makko

Hi MrShades,

i'm interested in updating my Gaggia Classic (9303/01) with your PID.

Can your give me an advice how to collect one ???

Thanks in advance...

Marcus

P.S. I'm from Germany...;-)


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## MrShades

rob177palmer said:


> MrShades - pls can you resend me the instruction PDF? I seem to have deleted it since installing.
> 
> I want to study the wiring diagram again - my issue is that the espresso PID is working perfectly, but flicking the steam switch has no impact - the boiler just remains at espresso temp.
> 
> I have taken the top off and the steam relay is not getting power (the red LED is not lighting). There are no obvious loose cables and no obvious short circuits in the wiring sheaths this time!!
> 
> If the wiring seems in place then I wonder if I need to buy a new steam relay, or possible the actual front switch has somehow broken? I rarely steam milk and i just noticed one day that it no longer heats to steaming temp.
> 
> Any ideas for where to start appreciated!
> 
> rob


Rob - I often don't notice the cries for assistance on here - so please PM me if you have any issues.

It'll probably be the SSR AA - I had a "wobbly" batch of them earlier this year... I'll get another one in the post to you, but confirm your address to me by PM.


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## MrShades

Makko said:


> Hi MrShades,
> 
> i'm interested in updating my Gaggia Classic (9303/01) with your PID.
> 
> Can your give me an advice how to collect one ???
> 
> Thanks in advance...
> 
> Marcus
> 
> P.S. I'm from Germany...;-)


Hi Marcus,

Many thanks for your interest in my PID kit. I sell the kits on CFUK mainly for the benefit of active forum members - so please send me a PM when your postcount has increased and you can do so, and I'll be very pleased to help and can obviously ship one to you in Germany.

Alternatively you can find my kits for sale on eBay - but the pricing (of the kit and the shipping) is much better on here.

Say "Hi" to my customers on Kaffee-netz for me! ;-)


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## Makko

Hi Adrian (???),

i'll do, like I told, on 'Kaffee-Netz'...;-) !!!

I hope, I find a few threats here, I can help...if not

..I have to find a different PID...

Thanks for your answer nevertheless...

Marcus...


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## Zodac

Hi Adrian,

I'm interested in a case only (wrote you on ebay about that, couple of days ago), how much is it, when I order it here? Is the availability still mid october?

Best regards

Lars


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## MrShades

Zodac said:


> Hi Adrian,
> 
> I'm interested in a case only (wrote you on ebay about that, couple of days ago), how much is it, when I order it here? Is the availability still mid october?
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Lars


Hi Lars,

I'll drop you a PM tomorrow about a case.

Additional stock arrived yesterday so all good now.

Thanks

Adrian


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## Rakesh

PID successfully added!


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## betyi

Dear MrShades!

I live in Hungary. I ordered REX PID for my Gaggia Classic. I want install this PID. Can you send me the installation manual, if this is not too secret!?

I want order from you, but i saw you are in UK and i think the sipping cost is too high for this medium package. If you can send me, i don't forward it.

Please help me! Thank's and have a nice day!


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## MrShades

betyi said:


> Dear MrShades!
> 
> I live in Hungary. I ordered REX PID for my Gaggia Classic. I want install this PID. Can you send me the installation manual, if this is not too secret!?
> 
> I want order from you, but i saw you are in UK and i think the sipping cost is too high for this medium package. If you can send me, i don't forward it.
> 
> Please help me! Thank's and have a nice day!


I'm sorry, it is indeed secret - and only supplied to people who have paid for the kit.

A significant amount of value of the kit (and a significant amount of work) is in the 64+ page manual.

There's lots of information of the forums concerning installation of the Rex c100 in a Classic - so some Googling will certainly help.


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## betyi

I know it was a big work with PDF, but i read this:

"Many thanks for your interest in my PID kit. I sell the kits on CFUK mainly for the benefit of active forum members - so please send me a PM when your postcount has increased and you can do so, and I'll be very pleased to help and can obviously ship one to you in Germany."

I think so i can order just from China. Please help me with manual, I would be very grateful if you could...

Please, please!


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## MrShades

betyi said:


> I know it was a big work with PDF, but i read this:
> 
> "Many thanks for your interest in my PID kit. I sell the kits on CFUK mainly for the benefit of active forum members - so please send me a PM when your postcount has increased and you can do so, and I'll be very pleased to help and can obviously ship one to you in Germany."
> 
> I think so i can order just from China. Please help me with manual, I would be very grateful if you could...
> 
> Please, please!


I'm not sure what you're saying. But if my previous response wasn't clear:

1. If you buy a complete kit from me (wherever you live - and I ship just about everywhere) - then you get access to my manual.

2. In order to buy a kit from me on here, you need to be an "active forum member" - and I consider that to be anyone who can PM me and therefore has 5 or more useful posts (you have 2, and they're both above).

3. If you want to, you can buy all of the components and tools to PID a Classic yourself - from China or ebay or your local electronics store. If you want to do this, then that's great - and you'll find a huge amount of helpful information telling you what to do and how to do it on this forum and others. But, I'll say it again, my manual is only for people who buy my kit. (Many PID controllers appear to be the same, but 'inside' they can be very different - so even if you did have my manual, it may not be correct for your controller - even if it looks like a Rex C100).

That's the long answer; the short one is:

If you buy my kit, you get my manual and my support. If you don't, you don't.


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## betyi

Okay, i understand it. I'm new in this forum, i read an hungarian forum.


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## betyi

Can i install on Gaggia Classic what is newer than 2015?

I have older machine, but my friend buy a new one.


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## manchu

I've just joined the forum to confirm what seal I need to fix my leaking Classic and stumbled on this thread.

Even though I can get 'free' controllers, enclosures and other bits needed at my work I'm very tempted to save the head scratching and get one of these kits. From what I've read it seems like you've done a great job MrShades.


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## MrShades

manchu said:


> I've just joined the forum to confirm what seal I need to fix my leaking Classic and stumbled on this thread.
> 
> Even though I can get 'free' controllers, enclosures and other bits needed at my work I'm very tempted to save the head scratching and get one of these kits. From what I've read it seems like you've done a great job MrShades.


Thanks... please just PM me when you're able to, and I'm sure I can help you - if you decide to proceed with a PID kit.


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## MrShades

betyi said:


> Can i install on Gaggia Classic what is newer than 2015?
> 
> I have older machine, but my friend buy a new one.


For clarification, no this kit doesn't work with the newer (2015+) Classic - that has a stainless steel boiler, and no depressurisation tube.


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## manchu

MrShades said:


> Thanks... please just PM me when you're able to, and I'm sure I can help you - if you decide to proceed with a PID kit.


Will do. I assume shipping to Australia is no problem??


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## MrShades

manchu said:


> Will do. I assume shipping to Australia is no problem??


I've done it before - and can happily quote for it when you PM me.


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## Hunkahunkaburninglove

Just joined the forum but I've been a lurker for a long time. Was contemplating either a Rancilio Silva or a sate barista express. However after reading through this forum I'm thinking if buying a classic second hand from the member that refuels them and buy a pid from yourself.

Just waiting to sell my house (long story) and once my post count is up, I'll contact you in order to order one mate.

Great thread


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## Stubhoy

Thinking of getting one of these, does it make a big difference?


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## salty

Stubhoy said:


> Thinking of getting one of these, does it make a big difference?


Huge difference. Just read the responses from everyone, me included, who upgraded to the MrShades PID.


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## Stubhoy

How come I don't get a notification when someone quotes my post? Every other forum I'm on always let's you know.


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## slipperydippery

I recently got a bigger basket (16g -> 21g), and am pulling bigger shots (up to 60g over 30-40s). I did a test with a thermocouple, and I'm noticing a significant drop in temperature over the course of the shot (92C to 85C).

I've tried really aggressive PID settings, but apart from making it more difficult to reach my starting temperature, it's not really helping much.

Is there a way to bypass the PID during the shot, putting the boiler on full blast for those 30-40 seconds?


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## martinierius

Yes but due to differences in wiring, wiring colors and PID implementation you should first make a drawing of the current situation or compare it with one of the schemes you can find online.

From there I could advise you how to bypass the PID SSR. As stated in reply to your post other post you could bypass with a heavy duty diode to get a more temp stable solution during brew time.


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## dev

slipperydippery said:


> I recently got a bigger basket (16g -> 21g), and am pulling bigger shots (up to 60g over 30-40s). I did a test with a thermocouple, and I'm noticing a significant drop in temperature over the course of the shot (92C to 85C).
> 
> I've tried really aggressive PID settings, but apart from making it more difficult to reach my starting temperature, it's not really helping much.
> 
> Is there a way to bypass the PID during the shot, putting the boiler on full blast for those 30-40 seconds?


How long are you leaving your machine on before pulling a shot? Have you changed the original aluminium shower dispersion plate to a brass one?

You can always press the steam button before a shot but I would advise against having the boiler at 100% during a shot because it will certainly overheat the water and burn your coffee. If I remember correctly from folks using smarter controllers like mecoffee, the necessary power to keep the temperature steady during a shot, is in the 10-20% range.


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## slipperydippery

dev said:


> How long are you leaving your machine on before pulling a shot? Have you changed the original aluminium shower dispersion plate to a brass one?
> 
> You can always press the steam button before a shot but I would advise against having the boiler at 100% during a shot because it will certainly overheat the water and burn your coffee. If I remember correctly from folks using smarter controllers like mecoffee, the necessary power to keep the temperature steady during a shot, is in the 10-20% range.


I'm generally leaving my machine on for 20-30 minutes before a shot. I'll try pressing the steam button before a shot, and see what it does with the temperature drop off.


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## shodjoe1

Hey,there.My way is,press the steam button for 4 seconds just before pulling a shot...works fine for me...No PID needed


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## maths15

A quick thanks to Adrian.

My orginal PID failed after some heavy use. New one delivered within 24hrs and after lots of tedious questions to Adrian I'm up and running. Plus it's the new signal display model too.

Great service, thanks Adrian.


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## Djhep

Good day Mr. Shades.

I would like to purchase 2 of your PID kits please.

PM sent.

All the best.

Dave.


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## djdstar

another satisfied customer.

thank you!


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## Djhep

Thanks Mr. Shades

One Kit now installed, the other in a few weeks time.

Working great, and a definite improvement in taste.

A worthwhile upgrade!.

All the best.

Dave


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## jt196

@MrShades - not sure if this is the place to ask, but I've got an issue with the kit (1/32 single display) where the display and the PID I think, switches off when I turn the steam option on. I've been running it to make espresso since I bought mine off eBay a couple of years ago, but sometimes use the steam when I have guests. It'll run a little bit on the steam option, then it just switches off. Any ideas why? Seems like it might just be a menu setting thing.

(Apologies if this has already come up, done a cursory search but I'm afraid I don't have time to trawl through 27 pages here to see if this has come up!)


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## MrShades

jt196 said:


> @MrShades - not sure if this is the place to ask, but I've got an issue with the kit (1/32 single display) where the display and the PID I think, switches off when I turn the steam option on. I've been running it to make espresso since I bought mine off eBay a couple of years ago, but sometimes use the steam when I have guests. It'll run a little bit on the steam option, then it just switches off. Any ideas why? Seems like it might just be a menu setting thing.
> 
> (Apologies if this has already come up, done a cursory search but I'm afraid I don't have time to trawl through 27 pages here to see if this has come up!)


Will PM you and help


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## jkuehl

<menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>HejHejHej, i got a similar problem like the poster above with my gaggia classic cc. I used the gaggia with the PID daily for years now and it always worked, so the problem might be related to the mechanics of the machine and not the PID itself, but maybe you can help. A few days ago, when switching to steam the indicator light did not turn off until it reached the steam temperature AH1, but flickered and then eventually stayed lit. (Just to confirm: i think there are two versions of the gaggia classic cc out there, mine is the one that turns OFF the light when it is heating. )

Since then i am not able to produce steam anymore, the temperature does not rise. When i flip the steam switch however the blocking of the pump is still working.

I tried to measure resistance through the powered off machine but i am no expert, i had a resistance between the switch and the black box (magnetic valve?) on the bottom of the boiler, and from that black box to the pump but not from one pin of that box to the other pin of the box. But as said i am no expert.

Could i measure somehow if the relays are working as expected (without powerring the machine would be best).

<menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>


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## MrShades

jkuehl said:


> <menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>HejHejHej, i got a similar problem like the poster above with my gaggia classic cc. I used the gaggia with the PID daily for years now and it always worked, so the problem might be related to the mechanics of the machine and not the PID itself, but maybe you can help. A few days ago, when switching to steam the indicator light did not turn off until it reached the steam temperature AH1, but flickered and then eventually stayed lit. (Just to confirm: i think there are two versions of the gaggia classic cc out there, mine is the one that turns OFF the light when it is heating. )
> 
> Since then i am not able to produce steam anymore, the temperature does not rise. When i flip the steam switch however the blocking of the pump is still working.
> 
> I tried to measure resistance through the powered off machine but i am no expert, i had a resistance between the switch and the black box (magnetic valve?) on the bottom of the boiler, and from that black box to the pump but not from one pin of that box to the other pin of the box. But as said i am no expert.
> 
> Could i measure somehow if the relays are working as expected (without powerring the machine would be best).
> 
> <menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>


I think your problem is a little different, and have replied by PM to help.


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## jkuehl

Thanks for the fast support and quick problem solution via PM. Back to steamed-milk coffee then soon for me ;-) Have a nice weekend!

<menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>


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## jkuehl

jkuehl said:


> Thanks for the fast support and quick problem solution via PM. Back to steamed-milk coffee then soon for me ;-) Have a nice weekend!
> 
> <menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>


Aaaaand the machine is working again, thanks for the fast shipping (from GB to Sweden that was fast!).

<menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>
<menuitem command="context" label="Textise it"></menuitem>


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## Gforce

Hi Mr Shades

This PID looks like it could really make a difference, if everyone else's views are anything to go by! Am quite new to the game but looking at a pre-2015 GC to buy second hand here in Ireland, and was wondering what the shipping would be to Ireland for the kit? (Apologies if you have already given a broad list of shipping rates, I wasn't able to find any.)

Thanks in advance!


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## HotChilli

@MrShades, I don't have the post count to pm you directly. Need one of these to Florida. Please pm with details.

Thanks


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## MrShades

HotChilli said:


> @MrShades, I don't have the post count to pm you directly. Need one of these to Florida. Please pm with details.
> 
> Thanks


Keep making valuable contributions to the forum and get your post count up - and then PM me once you can


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## HotChilli

MrShades said:


> Keep making valuable contributions to the forum and get your post count up - and then PM me once you can


LOL. Done


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## RonanRaver

Great thread!! Im picking up a Gaggia Classic tomorrow and potentially will do the mods....Whats the Current price of kit and shipping to Ireland? cheers take it to PM if you wish


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## MrShades

RonanRaver said:


> Great thread!! Im picking up a Gaggia Classic tomorrow and potentially will do the mods....Whats the Current price of kit and shipping to Ireland? cheers take it to PM if you wish


Have dropped you a PM.


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## mvogler

Would like to upgrade my Gaggia Classic with your kit. Could you please drop me a PM with the details (delivery to Switzerland), thanks!


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## EastBayCoffee

MrShades - I think I still need a few more posts, but was curious what is the cost with shipping for the entire kit to the States? The postal code is Oakland, CA, 94608

Cheers and I will post a similar query in your other post for the smaller PID


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## Tiburon

Dropped a PM.


----------



## mr_kac

Hi @MrShades, I've got Gaggia Classic (2013 I believe) I would like to add your kit to. I've just signed up to the forum, so I presume I can't send you a personal message. Any chance you could send me a personal message or should I continue to contribute to the forum?

Thanks!


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## MrShades

mr_kac said:


> Hi @MrShades, I've got Gaggia Classic (2013 I believe) I would like to add your kit to. I've just signed up to the forum, so I presume I can't send you a personal message. Any chance you could send me a personal message or should I continue to contribute to the forum?
> Thanks!


Please send me a PM when you're able to

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mr_kac

MrShades said:


> Please send me a PM when you're able to
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Great! Hopefully won't be too long!


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## Bubo102

Hi, I have a Gaggia Classic 2019 version. Is there a PID available for the 2019 version? If so, how much is it with shipping to Sweden? Thanks


----------



## ashcroc

Bubo102 said:


> Hi, I have a Gaggia Classic 2019 version. Is there a PID available for the 2019 version? If so, how much is it with shipping to Sweden? Thanks


Welcome,

You're best off PMing @MrShades. Join in with the forum (maybe introduce yourself) & you'll have the required 5 posts in no time.


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## Bubo102

ashcroc said:


> Welcome,
> 
> You're best off PMing @MrShades. Join in with the forum (maybe introduce yourself) & you'll have the required 5 posts in no time.


 Already PMed him. Not sure what the 5 posts requirements is..


----------



## ashcroc

Bubo102 said:


> Already PMed him. Not sure what the 5 posts requirements is..


There used to be a minimum post count before you could PM. Maybe it disappeared in the recent forum upgrade.


----------



## Mistle

Hi there, would like to know postage to Australia. Cheers.


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## PT89

Hi, I have a pre 2015 Gaggia and would love to add the PID - are these still available? I am based in London.


----------



## ZBeast

I just found this forum. Great discussions. Sorry for the basic question.

What is PID?


----------



## Adam.f

ZBeast said:


> I just found this forum. Great discussions. Sorry for the basic question.
> 
> What is PID?


 Proportional-Integral-Derivative (PID) controllers are used to control applications to regulate flow, temperature, pressure, level, and many other. PID control provides a continuous variation of output within a control loop feedback to accurately control the process


----------



## MrShades

ZBeast said:


> I just found this forum. Great discussions. Sorry for the basic question.
> 
> What is PID?


 In this context - It's the name of a type of 'intelligent' electronic temperature controller that can accurately and properly keep the boiler of an espresso machine at the temperature you desire.

For example, when the machine is cold it will turn the elements on "flat out" to get closer to your desired boilewr temp, but then as it gets close to it, it will back off a bit and start to just pulse power to the elements, and then when it does reach your target temperature the controller will "blip" power to the elements very occasionally so that it maintains the exact temperature precisely.

A good PID controller with the right configuration will allow you to keep a Gaggia Classic boiler at precisely the right temperature (stable state), often within 0.1 or 0.2c

(When you pour a shot, cold water is pumped into the boiler, and this disrupts the steady-state - but the controller sees the boiler temp dropping and works to get it back to your desired temperature as rapidly as possible - usually doing so in a few minutes, ready for the next shot!)


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## slipperydippery

Hi, I've had a PID kit installed on my Gaggia for a few years. Today I wanted to open up my boiler to see what the state of it was, and to clean it if necessary. I was quite diligent with labeling the cables I removed, but once I started up the Gaggia, after a few seconds the circuit breaker in my house blew.

I've checked and rechecked the cables, but I can't seem to find the fault.

I removed one of the Brew SSR-40DA terminals (number 4 in my case) to start my Gaggia to check the PID settings. This worked, and all my settings were still the same as before.

I'm working my way through the Gaggia PID kit manual, but it's tough since everything is already installed. Do you have any ideas as to what could be the problem? Where I went wrong?

Any help would be appreciated!

PS: The only cables I (intentionally) removed and reconnected were:
- The 5 connectors on the top of the boiler (one cable near the front panel connecting to two connectors, two cables in the back and the ground)

- I removed the clip on the top of the boiler holding down the tube with a resistor in it

- the temperature sensor

- the two connectors to the solenoid valve


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## CoffeeCraig

Good morning everyone.

@MrShades, are you still selling these PID kits please? I am considering buying one for my 2006 Gaggia Classic.

Many thanks.


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## ChilledMatt

CoffeeCraig said:


> Good morning everyone.
> @MrShades, are you still selling these PID kits please? I am considering buying one for my 2006 Gaggia Classic.
> Many thanks.


www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## Agentb

slipperydippery said:


> but once I started up the Gaggia, after a few seconds the circuit breaker in my house blew.


 Is it possible you got the the heating elements on the boiler wet? If yes, have a look here https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/21679-gaggia-classic-tripping/

Probably this thread is not optimal for Gaggic classic troubleshooting -, i'd recommend starting a new thread in the Gaggia Forum. 👍


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## CoffeeCraig

ChilledMatt said:


> www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 @ChilledMatt, Thank you!


----------

