# New machine for office



## TomMurray (Oct 14, 2013)

Hi all,

We are getting the office refurbished at work and I am hoping to slip in a decent coffee machine in with the design. I was wondering what people's suggestions would be?

I was thinking along the lines of a bean to cup machine. It has to be idiot proof in both using and maintenance (filling beans/milk, emptying waste). For me it will be making black coffees, but will also need to make other types for people and also hot water for tea.

We have a water pipe there so it can be plumbed in, but we don't have a waste water pipe.

The office is about 15 people, so it won't be high use.

Price bracket will be whatever I can get away with, but if they are spending £30-40K on desks, sofas tables etc, then that gives you an idea.

Any suggestions?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

These are always really tough topics to approach as all of us here who love the process and quality of proper coffee making have to step away from that a little in order to judge the needs of people in an office who simply cant be bothered to do anything complicated.

I generally tend to recommend a good nespresso machine. Like this. They dont make great coffee, but they make acceptable coffee, and most people in an office (in my experience) love it and think its amazing. This does stem from a certain ignorance, but thats like any area of life, I drive a Fiat and I'm perfectly happy with it ^_^.

The nespresso does add up in costs of pods, but if its a company that can budget for it (i.e. the boss likes the coffee it makes) then its a great option, it even makes fairly nice frothed milk all completely automatic, and maintenance is virtually zero, a quick clean and flush now and then.

The other option is a B2C (bean to cup), they produce better coffee than the nespresso pods, will allow you to buy in proper freshly roasted beans (something like rave 1kg for £10-12 from amazon) and in the long run they cost less than nespresso (quite substantially) but a good one is a significant outlay. See here . They are also more prone to breaking down and someone would need to read how to maintain them (in the manual) and make sure that it happens. In an office environment they wont last unless they are cared for.

You last option is to forget espresso and get a good drip machine. Most people are happy to add microwaved milk to half a cup of drip, and your long black would be great. Fresh beans are the important thing here, and maybe you could spend what you dont spend on the machine on a decent second hand commercial grinder (£2-400) and then again buy fresh beans in. I dont know the first thing about good drip machines, but if your interested maybe another member can advise.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Tom, if you research local office suppliers, then quite often if you contract yourself into buying your coffee and creams etc they will supply you with a machine and service it. If you buy one, you have to remember that they have service needs


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## TomMurray (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks for that quick and comprehensive reply









I do take your point that there is no option available which would make a great coffee. To put this into perspective I am trying to make the step up from sachets of Nescafe so the quality of a nespresso machine would be fine! For example some of the other guys in the office have these machines at home, while I currently make do with a one cup cafetiere (see http://thecookskitchen.com/browse_15824) at work and have the great coffee at home on weekends.

While the convenience of the nespresso is perfect there may be issues around office politics with the ongoing costs. All other offices will still be using instant, so they may complain that we are getting preferential treatment. This means we will end up funding the beans out of our own pocket, so lower long term costs are better. I am not too worried about the maintenance side... less would be better but we are an office full of scientists and engineers, so this shouldn't be too troublesome for us.

I like the look of the one you linked to, it is the sort of thing I had in mind (probably top end of the budget), but I am lost knowing which B2C machines have good build quality etc, so if anyone has more suggestions along these lines it would be good to see.

I did give the drip machine a bit of thought, I like your idea of spending on a grinder instead. Although with these the coffee goes stale after a while. Normally this is fine, pour the remnants away and make some fresh - but we have no sink with going all the way down the stairs and round the building. One of the reasons we get away with our own coffee point is that we have stairs and walk to the nearest tea area. As I say... office politics!!


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## TomMurray (Oct 14, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Tom, if you research local office suppliers, then quite often if you contract yourself into buying your coffee and creams etc they will supply you with a machine and service it. If you buy one, you have to remember that they have service needs


This would the the most sensible route. but again, office politics comes into it. I work for a big company and all of our contracts like that have to be handled through our facilities management contractors.

Currently the tea and coffee service agreement is for crappy instant, if they changed to paying for a serviced machine for our office then they would have to do that across the whole site. They also run a pay-for coffee shop, so it is really not in the interests of the contract company to provide good stuff!

To be honest we will be pushing trying to get one in our office and may well get it vetoed, no matter what we ask for.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Jura are very well respected, and from the reading I have done I understand them to be one of the best machines in their class, I linked to that one because of this. Unusually John Lewis seem to be one of the cheapest places to get that particular machine. Read some reviews of the Jura, pI think if I was going for a B2C it would be the company and machine I would go for, but I'm really no expert on these machines and that only comes from a few hours of reading. Again its one of those things that people who pride themselves on their coffee shy away from B2C so its hard to get a really good run down of the B2C machine from people who really care about the coffee.

To be clear with the drip machine, the grinder is there so your coffee doesnt go stale. Providing there is a decent amount of coffee drunk in the office, you would put enough beans in the grinder to make a few cups, grind that up and use it straight away. Storing the rest of the beans in the bag for the next time, only ever grinding 'on demand'.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Nespresso is very expensive, here is a cost breakdown which helps justify the initial outlay on the Jura.

Nespresso Machine = £250

Capsules £0.50 - £0.60 per cup(5g). Assumption of 10 cups per day (conservative) = £5-6

Over one year (taking into account 5 day week, not including holidays)

Capsules =£1200

Machine = £250

Total = £1450

With the Jura

Machine = £1300

Coffee £12per kg (rave via amazon) equates to £0.12 per cup (10g/double nespresso sizes) = £312 per year (same assumptions on coffee consumption, remember cup size is double)

Total for year = £1600

So after one year of much nicer coffee the Jura is only a couple of hundred quid more expensive. After the second year it becomes way cheaper, after the third... you get the idea.

p.s. Just to note the size of the nespresso is 5g, I'm just using 10g on the Jura for simple translatable maths, it will probably be standard 7g/single 14g/double, but if you work it out gram for gram the Jura is even cheaper.


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## TomMurray (Oct 14, 2013)

Thanks again







Love the breakdown of price there, good to see it like that, the B2C would payback within a year easily as we would probably be nearer 20 cups per day.

Oh and for the stale coffee, I was meaning the brewed coffee, not the beans. If left to sit an stew on on the hotplate.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

TomMurray said:


> Thanks again
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No problem, and your absolutely right, if you think you would be making individual coffees, rather than rounds for the office, there are drip machines which can make smaller doses well. Or you could get something like a clever coffee dripper + grinder + temperature settable kettle for making single cups.

just to note the biggest difference by far is going to be in the fresh beans, no matter what method you choose. Going from pre-ground supermarket bought to fresh ground coffee should be a revelation to anyone in your office who has never tried it.


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## mark21 (Oct 24, 2013)

> Going from pre-ground supermarket bought to fresh ground coffee should be a revelation to anyone in your office who has never tried it.


Agreed. When I first introduced two of the people on my desk to ground coffee - even just the cheap(ish) supermarket bought stuff - after years of Nescafe their faces were an absolute picture.


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