# moka advice



## ilovetea (Feb 9, 2013)

Guys i really wana start making good coffee at home and need some advice,

is it worth buying this moka http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moka-/261167418739?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Food_SM&hash=item3cceca8d73

i thought it was good value for money and its a perfect way to make a nice espresso in the morning, would you buy one of these mokas?

Whats it like making an espresso at home with a moka?

is this a good starter moka would it be ok fore taste and quality ? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moka-/261167418739?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Food_SM&hash=item3cceca8d73

and most important beans should i buy ?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I haven't seen that brand of stovetop before so can't comment, but the brand Bialetti are quite common and well made.

As for what beans to buy, what do you like in coffee? If you like a lighter roast check out Has Bean, if you like a darker roast check out Londinium. Loads more suppliers are listed in the beans subforum - just make sure whoever you choose sells you freshly roasted beans.

You should also really consider buying a coffee grinder, if you get fresh beans and grind them fresh as you need them it will make a massive difference to your coffee. The Porlex and Hario Skerton are fairly cheap and would be fine for a stovetop.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

It doesn't make espresso, it makes strong coffee. It also burns the coffee in the process of making it.

I suggest, start with good coffee and then buy an aeropress/chemex/etc.


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## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

I'd say similar to the above comments really.

Grab some beans from one of the recommended supplies on the forum and pair 'em up with an Aeropress, a good hand-held grinder like the Porlex Mini and you'll be well away!


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## Ricriley (Jan 3, 2013)

I have a moka pot and I really recommend a bialetti. They might be more expensive but they'll last forever.

I love the coffee that it makes, it's not espresso, but it tastes great. Personally I prefer it to Aeropress.


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

+1 for the bialetti,its a unique taste much like any coffee process


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

First off, I'm not about to knock the recommendations of the Aeropress, as they make superb coffee, and are probably one of the best ways to experiment with different brands of coffee, learning about the various flavours and seeing what you like.

But I'm also a great lover of Mokka pots, and used them for donkeys' years to make my coffee (and remember that most Italian households rely on them for their coffee).

Personally, I'd also pay the extra for a Bialetti. They last virtually forever, and spares are standard and easily obtainable (gasket, basket etc.). You'll also know that you have a reliable safety valve that will work in extremis if it ever has to. If you can, you might like to spend a little more and consider the Bialetti Brikka. The difference is that this pot has a counterweight in the top vessel that hold the coffee back until a set pressure is reached, then releases it in a rush - this gives something very close to genuine espresso crema on the top of your coffee.

There are also a few tricks in using Mokka pots. Season them well - a fair few dummy runs before you start sampling the coffee, NEVER wash the pot in soapy water. And when you are brewing, fill the lower vessel with very hot water (you may then need to wrap it in a tea towel to hold it when you screw it together). This limits the length of time the pot is on the hob, and, to a considerable extent, eliminates the burning of the coffee. Finally, take the pot off the hob as soon as the coffee comes through - din't leave it bubbling away on the hob, regardless of how it perfumes your kitchen! All the above are tricks I learned by experiment - I don't claim any basis in theory for them, but they work for me.

Enjoy your coffee!


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

vintagecigarman said:


> First off, I'm not about to knock the recommendations of the Aeropress, as they make superb coffee, and are probably one of the best ways to experiment with different brands of coffee, learning about the various flavours and seeing what you like.
> 
> But I'm also a great lover of Mokka pots, and used them for donkeys' years to make my coffee (and remember that most Italian households rely on them for their coffee).
> 
> ...


i can echo the above,i use the same routine and prefer the brikka over the original


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

vintagecigarman said:


> This limits the length of time the pot is on the hob, and, to a considerable extent, eliminates the burning of the coffee.


But why would you even want to get close to burning coffee?

I found it ok for travelling with, if you want something that is far less breakable, but there's no way I'd use it daily over the alternatives.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I completely agree that there are better alternatives, but the thing is with Mokkas that you either get them, or you don't.

There's a certain amount of magic about using something that's been virtually unchanged since 1933.

And there's the magic association with Italy and the fact that I've found one in home I've ever visited, or apartment I've rented there; and every time I use one I feel back there.

Given the choice between putting the Mokka on a stovetop, or pressing down on a piece of plastic, there's no option for me. It's not about logic, it's not about taste - it's all about soul.

I wouldn't want to go back to one as my sole means of making coffee, but I still put mine on regularly, and always take it with me when I'm renting self-catering cottages. It dates back to a long apprenticeship of starting learning about coffee, in the pre-internet days.

There's a certain romance about the Mokkas, and if the OP wants to give them a try, I wouldn't dissuade him. But look back at what I've told him about the Aeropress, and how much he can learn from using one. Others have given him the same advice. Down to him now.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

I really want to try a vac pot for the same reason, which have been around even longer, but I'm not sure I could deal with the hassle of that every day either, but they don't burn coffee.

Press doesn't agree with me though, nor filter, so i'm not sure whether vac pot would either. Filter is very practical though at least.

If I had to use a moka pot every day for coffee, that would put me right off coffee.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Horses for courses.

I have often wondered what proportions of home made coffee are brewed by the various methods. Certainly the majority of home coffee in Italy is made in Mokkas, but globally will filter or press account for more?

Sorry, off-topic I know, but just a thought.

Sent via Tapatalk


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## willowkevin (Dec 2, 2012)

Another aye for the mocha pot! My recently bought Classic has become a kitchen ornament....


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## jough (Feb 12, 2009)

Another vote for the Bialetti it's still my first choice for the large coffee with a splash of milk, I prefer it over making an Americana with the machine.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> I really want to try a vac pot for the same reason, which have been around even longer, but I'm not sure I could deal with the hassle of that every day either, but they don't burn coffee.
> 
> Press doesn't agree with me though, nor filter, so i'm not sure whether vac pot would either. Filter is very practical though at least.
> 
> If I had to use a moka pot every day for coffee, that would put me right off coffee.


vac pots, just like moka pots, use hot water drawn through the grinds to extract the coffee, the only problem with the moka is potentially leaving it too long and allowing steam to pass through the basket. This is operator error and nothing to do with the moka itself, you can misuse any piece of equipment and over/underextract coffee. Mokas do not burn coffee...people do.

As VCM says, use hot water in the base, kill the extraction before the steam start flolloping out of the centre pipe, grind on the coarse side (do not use fine/espresso grinds as these tend to lead to overextracted coffee and silt in the cup) and you have a quick, reliable, repeatable and delicious way of making strong (easily diluted down), sweet, fruity coffee. Stick to these rules and you'll find the moka very forgiving. I'd say that the moka hits a better strike rate, extraction-wise, than just about any other brewers, which tend to require more focus on time & grind. The moka works over a wide range of medium to coarse grinds, you just fill it to the lines/valve/basket rim and watch it for a couple of minutes.

I misused mine for years (too fine, too long on the hob), a couple of simple changes in technique and it simply amazes me on a regular basis nowadays.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

MWJB said:


> vac pots, just like moka pots, use hot water drawn through the grinds to extract the coffee, the only problem with the moka is potentially leaving it too long and allowing steam to pass through the basket. This is operator error and nothing to do with the moka itself, you can misuse any piece of equipment and over/underextract coffee. Mokas do not burn coffee...people do.
> 
> As VCM says, use hot water in the base, kill the extraction before the steam start flolloping out of the centre pipe, grind on the coarse side (do not use fine/espresso grinds as these tend to lead to overextracted coffee and silt in the cup) and you have a quick, reliable, repeatable and delicious way of making strong (easily diluted down), sweet, fruity coffee. Stick to these rules and you'll find the moka very forgiving. I'd say that the moka hits a better strike rate, extraction-wise, than just about any other brewers, which tend to require more focus on time & grind. The moka works over a wide range of medium to coarse grinds, you just fill it to the lines/valve/basket rim and watch it for a couple of minutes.
> 
> I misused mine for years (too fine, too long on the hob), a couple of simple changes in technique and it simply amazes me on a regular basis nowadays.


There is a big difference, vac pots draw hot water over the grounds, after it is taken off the heat and there is far less direct contact with heat.

You'll explain how the metal casing doesn't conduct heat directly to the grounds, well before the water boils.

Glass doesn't conduct heat like metal. I'm sure that it would be better on an electric hob than a gas hob though, where there would be no flames touching the side.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Plus one from me on the years of misuse. Like you say, once you know how it should be done, things improve dramatically.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Could not agree more. The italians use these in their homes daily, probably due to the cost and availability of espresoo from coffee bars, my with swears my hers and gave me (espresso lover) a fantastic lesson on how to use them properly. They are so simple with a greater margin for error over espresso machines and produce a wonderful coffee ideal for the lovers of the longer drink or a wonderful alternative to an espresso.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Must admit I do love my atomic as well


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> You'll explain how the metal casing doesn't conduct heat directly to the grounds, well before the water boils.
> 
> Glass doesn't conduct heat like metal.


Glass & metal both conduct heat. Neither the vac pot nor the moka pot would work if they didn't...I can't see your point. The water in the chamber will act like a heat sink to some degree, the upper part of my pot is cool enough to touch with bare hands for most of the process.

The vac pot only pushes water through the grounds when taken of the heat only if the user takes it off the heat (neither device is automatic, nor makes any decisions, both are reliant on user input)...in either case, it is merely hot water, not steam, that should be in contact with the grounds.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

MWJB said:


> Glass & metal both conduct heat. Neither the vac pot nor the moka pot would work if they didn't...I can't see your point. The water in the chamber will act like a heat sink to some degree, the upper part of my pot is cool enough to touch with bare hands for most of the process.
> 
> The vac pot only pushes water through the grounds when taken of the heat only if the user takes it off the heat (neither device is automatic, nor makes any decisions, both are reliant on user input)...in either case, it is merely hot water, not steam, that should be in contact with the grounds.


They both do, up to a degree, but glass is less conducive to heat. The upper part of the moka pot gets plenty hot for me on a gas hob, but, I can see how it would be fine on an electric stove.

Is it a gas or electric stove you've had it on when you could touch the top half?

It's not the water or steam burning the coffee, on a gas hob, the flames extend down the sides for me. The vac pots i've seen are considerably wider at the base and can have paraffin burners underneath.

I mean, it's quite possible I didn't have water in the bottom warm enough to start, but I don't see how that would help with the sides of the moka pot, where the inserted basket are pretty much in direct contact.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Friday I used my aluminium pot on my electric hob, this seems to take longer for the pot material to heat up than the thin walled steel pot. Today, I used my parents' steel pot on their gas hob...the steel pot gets hot quicker, must have less heat capacity? Water just off the boil in both cases. Sure, the basket slots into the lower resevoir, but other than contact at the screw thread, it's not in contact with the hottest parts of the resevoir (bottom & walls). Some pots have a dual walled base, some a 2 chamber resevoir, which might reduce risk of burning, but I find that medium heat on a small hob/ring, with my basic pot, is enough to get things moving within a couple of minutes. Flame today was not licking the walls of the pot resevoir...With hot water in the pot to start, with I'm only looking for enough applied heat to reach the tipping point in a short enough space of time that I don't get distracted, wander off and let the whole thing go too far ;-)


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Gas flames going up the sides of a Mokka?

Try a heat diffuser:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Truka-Large-Stovetop-Double-Diffuser/dp/B000LCPCU0/ref=pd_cp_kh_3


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## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

We use Moka pots of various sizes in Italy, used carefully you get good coffee, if you leave them too long it gets burnt, a bit like cooking toast!

Paul


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Flames should not be climbing up the sides of your pot, @RisingPower! I use a micro-burner, with a very small gas flame under my moka pot & my brikka pot, never a full size burner. The flame stays under the pot, not up the sides.

Everything that has been said in praise of the moka pot is true, and the key is learning how to use the thing properly; otherwise you will get pretty awful results. We've all been there, and put the moka pots in the back of the cupboard with dissatisfaction, but, oh my, if you stumble upon the right advice & guidelines, and are willing to experiment through trial & error, you can learn to consistently make an excellent drink with one.

And, while it is recommended to use hot water in the bottom chamber for moka pots, if you are using the Brikka, the opposite is true. Use cold water in the base for a Brikka. A good brew from a Brikka is as close to espresso as you will ever get, and a very tasty drink in its own right (& different from moka pot coffee). Takes about 2 minutes to brew, start to finish. (I prefer Bialetti aluminum pots over stainless steel; they behave differently as a result of metals heating up/retaining heat differently. I prefer gas over electric coil burner as a heat source; both work, but the responsiveness of gas is key to a better result, in my experience.)


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