# Help please - Duo Temp Pro lost pump power



## benoit3000

Hi folks, this is my first time posting in this community, here goes...

Had my trusty DTP for 3.5 years (so out of warranty) and absolutely love the machine. However it has suddenly lost a lot of pump power and the pump noise has gone from the usual deep sound (once it properly kicks in a few seconds into pulling the shot) to more of a high pitched sound - perhaps resembling a little mo-ped scooter or single engine aeroplane. Water still flowing and it just about pulls a shot of espresso but easily gets choked and it tastes awful. Something definitely not right.

Firstly - does this problem sound familiar to other DTP/Sage users?

Secondly - I'm debating whether to try and fix (either myself if I can get spare parts or sending to Sage?) or just buy a straight out replacement. Number of retailers currently have them at £249 which is pretty tempting but think I'd rather try the 'fix' option first - both for economic and environmental reasons - assuming users here have suggestions of the likely problem and I could source replacement parts.

Other info - No water leaking from bottom. I live in a hard water area and descale every 2-3 months. Use the machine on average twice a day.

Hope everyone safe in these unsettling times, and thanks in advance for any advice out there. Need my daily espresso hit more than ever during lockdown!

Chris B


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## Kannan

I'd pull it apart and have a look. WARNING THOUGH - dealing with scalding steam and boiling water and mains voltages here, so if you aren't comfortable get someone who is to help you - you can seriously injure yourself or even die! And definitely at least unplug it and wait until it cools down before doing anything!

That said it does sound like the pump is faulty (or less likely a pipe or a seal is loose or some such) - which isn't an expensive or particularly difficult repair on other Sage machines I've worked on.

I've never pulled apart a DTP - I have almost completely stripped a couple of Oracles and Dual Boilers which I imagine are not dissimilar if a little more involved.

From what I've seen the Sage machines use Ulka pumps which are easily available, not expensive (10-25£) and not super hard to swap out.

How technically minded are you?


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## M_H_S

Please don't stress. Don't send to Sage. Order a new pump. Ulka ep5 for around 13 pounds on Ebay. Easy to fit. Bob should be your uncle. If not you haven't lost much.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## benoit3000

Thank you so much for the speedy replies @Kannan and @M_H_S - I'm definitely keen to try and fix myself before resorting to a new purchase - especially given the components aren't too ££s. I'm not super techy but willing to give it a try as nothing to lose (safety warnings noted!).

Is it common for the pumps to suddenly go faulty? Do you think it could be anything else? (Eg valves?).

thanks!


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## Kannan

There's a possibility it's the solenoid valve from what I've read elsewhere on the dtp but it doesn't sound like it as you are getting some flow - I would assume that the solenoid clogging up would be a more gradual thing (not necessarily though) - and yes again from what I've read and seen, pumps do go, they're mechanical and pretty much the main moving part, so like any mechanical moving part, subject to wear and tear... also the pump is a vibratory kind which means there are no gears, so what you are hearing is the up down motion of the pump which sounds like it's gotten faster hence the higher pitch - now that could be less resistance (ie nothing stopping the flow or no flow - which could be a leak or the solenoid passing through to the drop tray but you didn't mention any signs of a leak or drip tray filling) or it could be a broken spring in the pump (which therefore resists the pumps motion less). The winding of the pump doesn't seem to be gone as otherwise there'd be no pump noise at all.

There's loads out there on repairing Sage/Breville machines, you'll need a few basic tools and maybe some o-rings and cable ties if that's how the dtp is put together (the oracle and dual boiler use those - be happy to send you some of that stuff, to save you buying loads for one repair - pm me), I'd take loads of pics at loads of different angles to help you putting it all back together!


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## M_H_S

It doesn't have a solenoid like the Barista machines.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Kannan

M_H_S said:


> It doesn't have a solenoid like the Barista machines.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


 Ahh ok! Sorry haven't looked into the DTP in much detail...


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## benoit3000

Kannan said:


> There's a possibility it's the solenoid valve from what I've read elsewhere on the dtp but it doesn't sound like it as you are getting some flow - I would assume that the solenoid clogging up would be a more gradual thing (not necessarily though) - and yes again from what I've read and seen, pumps do go, they're mechanical and pretty much the main moving part, so like any mechanical moving part, subject to wear and tear... also the pump is a vibratory kind which means there are no gears, so what you are hearing is the up down motion of the pump which sounds like it's gotten faster hence the higher pitch - now that could be less resistance (ie nothing stopping the flow or no flow - which could be a leak or the solenoid passing through to the drop tray but you didn't mention any signs of a leak or drip tray filling) or it could be a broken spring in the pump (which therefore resists the pumps motion less). The winding of the pump doesn't seem to be gone as otherwise there'd be no pump noise at all.
> 
> There's loads out there on repairing Sage/Breville machines, you'll need a few basic tools and maybe some o-rings and cable ties if that's how the dtp is put together (the oracle and dual boiler use those - be happy to send you some of that stuff, to save you buying loads for one repair - pm me), I'd take loads of pics at loads of different angles to help you putting it all back together!


 Awesome, thanks so much. I've purchased an Ulka pump and going to give this a go once it arrives... Any idea what size o-rings might be required? I might try buy a set online. Otherwise, would be very happy to take you up on your kind offer @Kannan

Good shout on taking lots of pics as I disassemble. Any other general tips for replacing a pump on these machines?


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## Kannan

benoit3000 said:


> Awesome, thanks so much. I've purchased an Ulka pump and going to give this a go once it arrives... Any idea what size o-rings might be required? I might try buy a set online. Otherwise, would be very happy to take you up on your kind offer @Kannan
> 
> Good shout on taking lots of pics as I disassemble. Any other general tips for replacing a pump on these machines?


 On an Oracle or DB (BES900,920,980,990) there's a small orange O ring on pretty much every clip pipe connection - i.e. (almost) every connection into the boiler and also from the OPV to the boiler then into the solenoids, valves etc. The OPV (over pressure valve) overflow is a cable tied pipe. Given that you are asking, does that mean you ordered the pump before taking out the old one? I'm guessing you got the model number from somewhere else then - there are a few Ulka pumps around (EX5 being the one in the machines I've worked on, but that's not the only pump around).

As a general rule, I'd also keep a small bowl around to drop in screws, clips etc and often I'll also take pics of what screws came out of where as they all look very similar when you are trying to put them back! PM me if you want...


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## Kannan

I think this video might help:


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## M_H_S

benoit3000 said:


> Awesome, thanks so much. I've purchased an Ulka pump and going to give this a go once it arrives... Any idea what size o-rings might be required? I might try buy a set online. Otherwise, would be very happy to take you up on your kind offer @Kannan
> Good shout on taking lots of pics as I disassemble. Any other general tips for replacing a pump on these machines?


You won't need any new o rings unless you have a leak.

It would help if you had small cable ties.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Kannan

M_H_S said:


> You won't need any new o rings unless you have a leak.
> 
> It would help if you had small cable ties.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


 You are correct, I just change them as a matter of good practice since you're that far in already! Particularly boiler o-rings as they are known to start leaking on 900/920/980s


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## benoit3000

Kannan said:


> On an Oracle or DB (BES900,920,980,990) there's a small orange O ring on pretty much every clip pipe connection - i.e. (almost) every connection into the boiler and also from the OPV to the boiler then into the solenoids, valves etc. The OPV (over pressure valve) overflow is a cable tied pipe. Given that you are asking, does that mean you ordered the pump before taking out the old one? I'm guessing you got the model number from somewhere else then - there are a few Ulka pumps around (EX5 being the one in the machines I've worked on, but that's not the only pump around).
> 
> As a general rule, I'd also keep a small bowl around to drop in screws, clips etc and often I'll also take pics of what screws came out of where as they all look very similar when you are trying to put them back! PM me if you want...


 Thanks once again! Brilliant help so far and just realised I prob should have posted this thread in the 'machine faults' section of the site.

re pump - I've got an EP5 per the recommendation from M_H_S in this thread, but no I haven't opened the machine up yet.

Thanks also for the YouTube vid link, looks just the ticket.

I'll give this a go and take lots of pics for reassembly. If I get stuck, I may well PM you for support - thanks again, people are very helpful on here.


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## benoit3000

So... quick update on my DTP machine fault.

Thought the new pump had finally arrived but opened the package to find they'd actually sent me an oven door seal pack instead!! 😂 Not ideal from Spares-2-go. I'm onto them to correct this.

However, whilst I wait for the right part, I did whip the cover off the machine and began taking a look inside - found white powdery residue in/around the pump area (see pics) and wondered if this is just normal when opening up these machines up and/or whether it gave any other clues re. the fault I've described in my original post?

Many thanks, Chris


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## benoit3000

benoit3000 said:


> So... quick update on my DTP machine fault.
> 
> Thought the new pump had finally arrived but opened the package to find they'd actually sent me an oven door seal pack instead!! 😂 Not ideal from Spares-2-go. I'm onto them to correct this.
> 
> However, whilst I wait for the right part, I did whip the cover off the machine and began taking a look inside - found white powdery residue in/around the pump area (see pics) and wondered if this is just normal when opening up these machines up and/or whether it gave any other clues re. the fault I've described in my original post?
> 
> Many thanks, Chris


 Attaching the photos would prob help...


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## Kannan

That definitely looks like a leak of some sort to me, but from the top of the OPV... which may have damaged the pump over time... you can see water residue on the upper rubber bracket... are you using tap water btw?

You'll definitely need a new o ring on the top of that OPV by the looks of things - pull the clip out then remove the 4mm PTFE tube and see what the rubber o ring looks like...


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## benoit3000

Kannan said:


> That definitely looks like a leak of some sort to me, but from the top of the OPV... which may have damaged the pump over time... you can see water residue on the upper rubber bracket... are you using tap water btw?
> 
> You'll definitely need a new o ring on the top of that OPV by the looks of things - pull the clip out then remove the 4mm PTFE tube and see what the rubber o ring looks like...


 thanks @Kannan - so sounds like a leak and/or faulty pump from what you're saying. Will check the o-ring state tomorrow and report back.

Do you know what size o-rings I need to order please for these machines?

And answering your question re. water - yes, I do use tap water and live in a relatively hard water area (Bristol, UK). I also use the replaceable filters in the water tank. I'm aware some use bottled water in their machines - do you recommend this?

thanks!


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## Kannan

Scale from hard water is the enemy of all heated water appliances (however from what I've read the calcium and magnesium which cause water hardness do give some taste to the coffee, so not an entirely straightforward subject, but I really know very little about it) so yes, most people who are serious about coffee (and looking after their machines) won't use tap water in their machines. I personally use an Osmio Zero (see the "Group Buys" section of this forum).

As for the o ring, PM me and I'll try and stick some in the post for you (along with some small cable ties which you will also need) - there are only 2 sizes used (I forget which exactly off the top of my head) but I doubt you will ever need 10 or 20 or whatever size packs they come in and buying them from Sage seems to be a fortune!


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## Tonino

Hi, all great tips how to. I can also recommend to get some food grade silicon grease like this one FilterLogic CFL650 Silicone Grease/Lubricant 10g Tube for Coffee/Espresso Machine Seals gaskets portafilter https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B078S86H3F/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_NcuOEbXHVZQKJ And apply some on the plastic tube and the new rubber seal, it will keep it in place and also acts as added sealant. It seems like hard water has caused some water leak over the pump and probably damaged the coil inside. 
Regards


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## benoit3000

Tonino said:


> Hi, all great tips how to. I can also recommend to get some food grade silicon grease like this one FilterLogic CFL650 Silicone Grease/Lubricant 10g Tube for Coffee/Espresso Machine Seals gaskets portafilter https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B078S86H3F/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_NcuOEbXHVZQKJ And apply some on the plastic tube and the new rubber seal, it will keep it in place and also acts as added sealant. It seems like hard water has caused some water leak over the pump and probably damaged the coil inside.
> Regards


 Thanks @Tonino - I'll add this to my shopping list as sounds very sensible to help the overall quality of the fix up job. Still waiting on a few components to be able to finish the task - namely the new pump itself and @Kannan is kindly posting me some replacement o-rings and cable ties (massive thanks for the generosity!).

thank you for the advice and link!


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## benoit3000

Hi all, just to wrap up this thread (hopefully) - turns out after some troubleshooting the OPV was faulty and spurting water out the top of it. Gone with a replacement OPV and seems to have done the trick for now. Not replaced the pump yet as still seems to be in working order so will keep hold of the Ulka for a rainy day if it does go.

Special thanks to @Kannan who's been mega helpful throughout - even sent me spare o-rings, cable ties and a trial OPV, not to mention jumped on a few video calls and messages to talk me through the tech steps! So grateful!

thanks also to @Tonino and @M_H_S for their input too, really appreciate it guys.

Very impressed with the responses to my first post in this community - some great folks out there.

cheers, Chris 👍🏼


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## M_H_S

benoit3000 said:


> Hi all, just to wrap up this thread (hopefully) - turns out after some troubleshooting the OPV was faulty and spurting water out the top of it. Gone with a replacement OPV and seems to have done the trick for now. Not replaced the pump yet as still seems to be in working order so will keep hold of the Ulka for a rainy day if it does go.
> 
> Special thanks to @Kannan who's been mega helpful throughout - even sent me spare o-rings, cable ties and a trial OPV, not to mention jumped on a few video calls and messages to talk me through the tech steps! So grateful!
> 
> thanks also to @Tonino and @M_H_S for their input too, really appreciate it guys.
> 
> Very impressed with the responses to my first post in this community - some great folks out there.
> 
> cheers, Chris


Great. Just start making great coffee and let us know how it goes.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Weymouth

Rather than starting a new thread I thought I would reply to this one as I have a similar issue.

I have a DTP, had it for a year and a half now. Used to use it at weekends but as I'm working from home now I use it everyday.

All was normal until today. I turned the dial and waited and the espresso just dripped out. Eventually I got 36 grams of espresso but it usually would take 30-35 seconds. This took almost a minute.

Did a backflush with the cleaning tablets and disc. Did a descale and then another backflush with disc and tablet.

Put in a brand new basket and still the same. Got to around 55 seconds. I'm guessing the pump has gone?


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## Kannan

HI @Weymouth Just so you know, it turns out that the problem with @benoit3000's machine was the OPV and not the pump in the end. It looked like a cracked or otherwise damaged receptacle for the 4mm ptfe tube... which meant that rather than the water arriving at the group head at pressure, it was just spraying all over the inside of the machine.

The only real way to tell is to pop the cover off, IF you are minded to do so. Just bear in mind, as I mentioned before, this is mains voltage, potentially scalding water and high pressure you are dealing with, so if you aren't comfortable doing this, then leave it to someone who is!


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> HI @Weymouth Just so you know, it turns out that the problem with @benoit3000's machine was the OPV and not the pump in the end. It looked like a cracked or otherwise damaged receptacle for the 4mm ptfe tube... which meant that rather than the water arriving at the group head at pressure, it was just spraying all over the inside of the machine.
> 
> The only real way to tell is to pop the cover off, IF you are minded to do so. Just bear in mind, as I mentioned before, this is mains voltage, potentially scalding water and high pressure you are dealing with, so if you aren't comfortable doing this, then leave it to someone who is!


 Hi, thanks for that. I did remove just the cover and it all looks like new in there. I could remove the back too. What am I looking for if the valve/pump is faulty?


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## Kannan

If there is nothing obviously leaking then it might well be the pump (could still be the OPV). Does it sound less noisy than before? Could you take a video by any chance?


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> If there is nothing obviously leaking then it might well be the pump (could still be the OPV). Does it sound less noisy than before? Could you take a video by any chance?


 Yes I could take a video. It sounds not as healthy as it did before but it still works to a point so I'm not sure if I'm just imagining it!


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## Kannan

Oh sorry before we delve down into possible hardware faults, did you change your beans/grinder/grind setting etc etc? Still could be a "user" error ? 36g 30-35 seconds could still just be too fine a grind - and even then it isn't terrible in terms of timing...


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> Oh sorry before we delve down into possible hardware faults, did you change your beans/grinder/grind setting etc etc? Still could be a "user" error ? 36g 30-35 seconds could still just be too fine a grind - and even then it isn't terrible in terms of timing...


 That's why I know there is an issue as I have been using the same beans/grind size every day and all of a sudden it's not right. It's like it's choked up but I know it's not as I made that mistake while learning. It's like it's all working fine, the coffee comes out at a steady rate (very slow at first) and then after around 55 seconds I have my 36 grams.

One thing I did do on this occasion, I tamped I think a little too hard. The motta tamper level was a little low on the portafilter so I thought I had just choked it I poured that away. Then I tamped very soft just in case and had the same result. It's almost as if I damaged the pump by tamping too hard or maybe the pump was on the way out and this tipped it over the edge!

What I am going to do as it's a 5 minute job is remove the shower head and check this are for gunk.


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## Kannan

OK understood - definitely clean it all up before looking at part failure... then post a video if it's still doing it...



Weymouth said:


> It's almost as if I damaged the pump by tamping too hard


 That's very unlikely - more like the pump was on it's way out (if it is the pump) - reading between the lines, probably hard water in your area? Tap water?


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> OK understood - definitely clean it all up before looking at part failure... then post a video if it's still doing it...
> 
> That's very unlikely - more like the pump was on it's way out (if it is the pump) - reading between the lines, probably hard water in your area? Tap water?


 Yes I use tap water. I use the sage filters but maybe these have limited success in preventing scale issues. The water is my area is considered medium on hardness and I would agree after living in soft and very hard water areas and descaling my kettle and food steamer.


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## Kannan

Weymouth said:


> I use the sage filters but maybe these have limited success in preventing scale issues


 Pretty sure those charcoal filters just stop any debris from getting into the machine (dust or coffee grinds could cause a blockage) as an added bonus, they might remove any taste/oder that you might get if your water sits in the tank for a while. They certainly don't claim to soften water at all...


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## Weymouth

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View attachment IMG_0169_Trim_Trim.mp4


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## Weymouth

Looks like some paint bubbling around what I guess is the hole that the hot water comes out of. Other than that it looks ok.


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## Kannan

Actually looks and sounds ok... could measure the output liquid to make sure there's the right amount of water coming out, let me look up the volume/time for you... if that's fine then short of putting a pressure gauge on it (somehow) or replacing one at a time (opv then pump) there's no easy that I can think of to tell if the pump or opv are somehow faulty and not allowing enough pressure to get to the head when under load


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## Weymouth

Thanks for that. I just made a coffee and set the smart grinder pro to 22 (now off the scale of espresso on the display). I had been using 19. Took 40 seconds to get 36 grams.

I guess for now I will just grind coarse and at least I have some coffee to drink!


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## Weymouth

Probably not the best place to ask but the reason I got the DTP was to see if I wanted to go down the route of making espresso. Now that I figured that out I may as well look for a machine that will last as long as possible and spend some more money. I'm happy with the coffee I produce so would it be worth buying a new machine or just keep fixing the one I have and then replacing it when it finally dies? Also what would be the next step - sage dual boiler/oracle/fracino?


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## Kannan

Weymouth said:


> smart grinder pro to 22 (now off the scale of espresso on the display). I had been using 19


 The SGP dial settings are pretty arbitrary - as in they aren't calibrated against each other - so one persons 19 might be another persons 25! You could try going even more coarse and see what happens? The DTP has a lot going for it actually (PID, good steam etc)... so it's really not a bad machine, the main gripe for most people about Sage generally is that you are locked into a proprietary system and they are primarily consumer machines rather than pro-sumer - the corollary of this being that you probably won't hand a Sage espresso machine down to your kids ... how long have you had it?

Your next upgrade, assuming your DTP is ok, would be the grinder... (Niche, Eureka etc)... you will definitely be able to produce better coffee with a better grinder than the SGP.

Over and above that it really depends on what you drink, when, how often, what space you have, budget etc etc... it's quite subjective. But in terms of a "real" espresso machine (as in not bean-to-cup, auto froth etc), realistically the only Sage machine that I think is worth considering as an upgrade would be the Dual Boiler, there are plenty of other non-Sage options but everything has it's pros and cons...


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## Kannan

ok so for testing the pump:

"The idea is to run the pump with no portafilter in place and measure the outflow over time. Usually, a long sample time is better, like 30 seconds. But 10 would suffice. Current internet theory suggests 250ml-300ml of water flow total in 30 seconds at 10 bar basic pump pressure. "

From home-barista but I'm sure I've seen it here somewhere too... Also could work it out but thought it would be quicker to quote for now.


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> The SGP dial settings are pretty arbitrary - as in they aren't calibrated against each other - so one persons 19 might be another persons 25! You could try going even more coarse and see what happens? The DTP has a lot going for it actually (PID, good steam etc)... so it's really not a bad machine, the main gripe for most people about Sage generally is that you are locked into a proprietary system and they are primarily consumer machines rather than pro-sumer - the corollary of this being that you probably won't hand a Sage espresso machine down to your kids ... how long have you had it?
> 
> Your next upgrade, assuming your DTP is ok, would be the grinder... (Niche, Eureka etc)... you will definitely be able to produce better coffee with a better grinder than the SGP.
> 
> Over and above that it really depends on what you drink, when, how often, what space you have, budget etc etc... it's quite subjective. But in terms of a "real" espresso machine (as in not bean-to-cup, auto froth etc), realistically the only Sage machine that I think is worth considering as an upgrade would be the Dual Boiler, there are plenty of other non-Sage options but everything has it's pros and cons...


 I've had it for 18 months now.

The reason I'm not too fussed about upgrading the grinder is that the coffee that I make is fine so I just want to get a machine that will last. I have sent a message regarding a dual boiler for sale so I will keep my eye out for options.


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## Kannan

Using bottled or preferably filtered water and back flushing regularly will make your machine last. Realistically you can get 10 years plus out of your Sage with moderate maintenance (the pumps, valves etc are mostly the same as many other machines). And conversely whatever machine you might buy as an alternative will suffer a similar fate if not looked after...

You might also consider an Osmio Zero...

As for the grinder, if you haven't tasted coffee been made from a decent grinder then you should at least try it before you decide what you have is fine, then you can decide if your palette can actually tell the difference, but my guess is you won't look back - but equally each to their own!


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> ok so for testing the pump:
> 
> "The idea is to run the pump with no portafilter in place and measure the outflow over time. Usually, a long sample time is better, like 30 seconds. But 10 would suffice. Current internet theory suggests 250ml-300ml of water flow total in 30 seconds at 10 bar basic pump pressure. "
> 
> From home-barista but I'm sure I've seen it here somewhere too... Also could work it out but thought it would be quicker to quote for now.


 Ok nice round figures:

30 seconds = 200ml

45 seconds = 300ml

I thought it would be less than 100ml/15 seconds in the first 30 seconds due to the slower rate but unless the rate slows with time it looks negligible

So I would say there is an issue but not a complete failure which would concur to going from 35 seconds to 55 seconds to pull 36 grams

So it's like it's running at 7.5 bar and is meant to be 15?


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## Kannan

So you would have to take the pre-infusion into account...

Measure and time from about 15 seconds onwards that way you can discount any pre-infusion time and see again - dual boiler is recommended to be set at 11.5 bar not sure about the DTP but would imagine same or similar...


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> So you would have to take the pre-infusion into account...
> 
> Measure and time from about 15 seconds onwards that way you can discount any pre-infusion time and see again - dual boiler is recommended to be set at 11.5 bar not sure about the DTP but would imagine same or similar...


 That's why I ran it for 30 seconds and then 45 seconds (two separate runs) so that means after pre infusion it is running at 100ml per 15 seconds which is too slow.

I bought it from Lakeland so I can get a replacement or refund so I need to think if I want a refund towards a different machine. I'm guessing that if I went for a replacement now they wouldn't allow me to go for a refund a few months down the line.


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## Kannan

Ahh sorry didn't catch that! Yeah sounds like it's running at 6/7 bar - still could be the OPV but whatever if it's under warranty then for sure get it sorted... honestly though if you are happy with the coffee the only other machines worth considering around this price point are the Gaggia Classic and maybe the Rancilio Silvia neither of which have PID or pre-infusion at this price point and will also suffer from tap water usage - but might last 25 years if well looked after...


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> Ahh sorry didn't catch that! Yeah sounds like it's running at 6/7 bar - still could be the OPV but whatever if it's under warranty then for sure get it sorted... honestly though if you are happy with the coffee the only other machines worth considering around this price point are the Gaggia Classic and maybe the Rancilio Silvia neither of which have PID or pre-infusion at this price point and will also suffer from tap water usage - but might last 25 years if well looked after...


 I'm looking at upping the budget to a dual boiler or HX as I figure now I want a machine for many years. That's why I'm tempted to go for a refund.


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## Weymouth

Options at the moment:

Sage Dual Boiler

Fracino Cherrub/Piccino

Lelit Mara 62/X

(Or replacement for DTP)


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## Kannan

Seriously though without doing the grinder or water? That's like getting a 4K telly and watching 480p Youtube on it...

Add the ACS Minima to that list then.


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> Seriously though without doing the grinder or water? Add the ACS Minima to that list then. That's like getting a 4K telly and watching 480p Youtube on it...


 I'm sure I will, now this has happened, look at changing my approach to water and grinder. My original thought as a newbie was to go for the DTP and SGP and learn from there and also see if having an espresso machine was the way I wanted to go.

I think it worked out pretty well until yesterday. Also I got both from Lakeland so have the 3 year for any reason refund/replacement.

Now there is an issue I realise that I need to relook at machine/water/grinder etc. My initial thought is to look at the machine situation as mine is faulty and the grinder is working. Once I have a machine that is working I can then look at grinders.

Like I said before my main thought at the moment is getting a machine that will last.


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## Weymouth

Kannan said:


> Seriously though without doing the grinder or water? Add the ACS Minima to that list then. That's like getting a 4K telly and watching 480p Youtube on it...


 Also I do get your point but if your 4k telly is broke you can't watch anything so you have to get your telly working before you can watch 4k/hd or 480p


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## Kannan

Yes you are right, as you say, first thing, get the machine sorted and if it's under warranty and you want to spend more then yes go for one of those, but for sure upgrade the water (otherwise back to square one) and then grinder too


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## Weymouth

Just for future reference as I can't find sage parts:

Pump: Ulka ep5 or ex5

Over Pressure Valve (OPV): ?????


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## Kannan

The OPV you have to order from Australia:

http://outwestcoffee.com.au/index.php/product/breville-bypass-valve/

and the ULKA pump seems to be an EP5:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ulka-EP5-Water-Pump-For-DeLonghi-Magnifica-ESAM-ECO-EAM-Coffee-Machines-48W/333366266716?epid=1740005559&hash=item4d9e2d8b5c:g:sbQAAOSwkIdbsm22

And if you go down that route you will need a few o rings and cable ties too...


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## Weymouth

I have just removed the back and I can't see any issue so I'm guessing the pump is at fault.

I ran it without a portafilter until it stopped after 60 seconds. I had exactly 400ml of water so the flow rate is 400ml per minute

It would be really handy if anyone has time to run theirs for 60 seconds to see how much water comes out or run it to 400ml and time it.


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## Weymouth

Just set the grinder to 25 and it took 33 seconds to get 36 grams. The pump definitely does not sound heathy. The coffee doesn't taste the best either.

I will set it back to 22 and should get 36 grams in 40 seconds. Then call Lakeland on Monday when they are back answering phones.


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## Kilburn_kid

Hi there, did you solve this? I have had a duo temp for 3 years, and yesterday I noticed that whilst everything sounded the same, after the pre infusion when the sound of the pump picks up, the water flow rate didn't same to change. Espresso on a particular setting (niche zero grinder) suddenly was slower and tasting different. Will investigate flow rate.


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## Kannan

@Kilburn_kidMore than likely the pump/opv starting to go... London tap water? Not too difficult for a reasonably technically minded person to replace, but the OPV in particular is a bit of a wait to order from Australia


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## Kilburn_kid

Thanks @Kannan - will take it apart at the weekend and test a few things. It SOUNDS fine, so maybe there is a slightly blocked pipe somewhere. Will see what I can find. For now back to my v60..


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## benoit3000

Weymouth said:


> Looks like some paint bubbling around what I guess is the hole that the hot water comes out of. Other than that it looks ok.
> 
> View attachment 39677


 My machine has this bubbling too - can be replaced apparently. Called Sage last week (through to a team in Germany) and they are currently out of stock of the replacement part but should have it in next cpl of weeks... and only £3.50 + P&P so cheap to swap over 👍🏼


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## lackers

Hey!

I have had the same issue (also from Bristol) I have Duo Tempo and I would turn on and set it to pump a coffee but nothing would come out. I thought it was the pump so replaced that but it does not seem to fix it. So I am bit stuck on how to fix it. I would really appreciate some advice to rescue the machine.

Philip


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## ajohn

As I mentioned elsewhere check power is getting to the pump.


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## HoffiCoffi63

This has been a great thread for me. I also have a Sage DTP with v. Similar problems, low pressure, low flow ( 50 mls after 45secs - without the ports filler in ).No obvious leaks inside, so looks like a new pump or OPValve when `I can get one !


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## ajohn

Or scale in the thermocoil. There can be a point where it blocks flow all together. The problem tube is the one coming out of the thermocoil. Scale flakes off it and blocks or obstructs it,

2 descales on the trot may show an improvement if that is happening - hard to be sure though.


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## HoffiCoffi63

Thanks aJohn, am having a go at it but looks clean. ( much delayed by insufficient time for coffee repairs). Have replaced the pump with no joy, so next up is the OPV. Another video suggested the filter but would have to get one of those from Australia presumably..like the OPV


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## embecmom2

Hi, been troubleshooting my duo temp pro, so just passing on my findings which I think would work with many sage machines, just something to check on the list of things!.. so firstly the issue was no water being pumped around system, so no steam and no water to group head. Instead of the initial 'dunk dunk' as the pump kicked in I just got a very low level hum as if the pump was not initialising or self priming. I re primed the pump (syringe and water into the water intake pipe) the pump started again and got it working for a few tries but then stopped, this I think was a red herring. After spending an hour priming the whole system by hand the steam wand worked and the group head had water coming out of it. So no blockages from the pump to group head/steam wand.

I then saw a youtube video on how to test if the pump is actually working. Now this I dont recommend if you arent so good with electricity and water!!! So turned everything off, and unplugged. I unscrewed the pump from the chasis, removed the top outlet pipe and fed the inlet pipe from the water tank directly to the bottom of the pump. Turned it on (careful not to touch anything at all) and the pump kicked in, yea water everywhere but it confirmed that the pump was working. I reconnected all the tubes and it stopped working again. This led me to believe there was some form of blockage in the pipes connecting to the water pipe. I removed them all, blew them out (I have no limescale so wasnt that) and turned it back on, hey presto water pumping no problem. 

However, as someone else mentioned in this thread, I do think one of the two connecters to the pump had worked loose and this perhaps was another reason the pump was not fully engaging. I did re fix these too. 

The important part here was the fact I tested the pump as I was about to order another one but thought I would give it one last go.

Hope this helps troubleshoot for someone.

tks


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## embecmom2

embecmom2 said:


> Hi, been troubleshooting my duo temp pro, so just passing on my findings which I think would work with many sage machines, just something to check on the list of things!..


IN ADDITION.. charcoal filters... I have found that the non official charcoal filters I bought for the DTP leak charcoal and this gets into the tubes and even the tiniest grain seems to block the free flow of water, I have found black residue from them sitting in the main water pipe and once cleaned it works again.


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