# How do you choose??



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

With so many machines and bundles out, it's so difficult to choose which ones to get and pair! I have a budget of £1,200. These are the 5 I have been looking at.

1. Sage dual boiler with sage smart grinder. (Free from John Lewis)

2. Sage oracle

3.expobar leva paired with mignon

4. Nuova simonelli musica with mazer or mignon or malkhonig vario (package deal by coffeeitalia.co.uk

5. Isomac with mahlkonig vario (package deal by coffeeitalia.co.uk)

I would love to hear your opinion in these. Thanks.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

does it have to be new?


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I think you'd perhaps want to consider better grinders to pair with machines 1 and 3 to get the best out of them.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

What DoubleShot said, though really all the grinders you listed are several leagues below the level of the machines you're looking at.

As Dave asked, is second hand an option? If you're looking at Sage you probably aren't going to find any used, however you could pair it with a good used grinder?

Personal choice would be a Sage Dual Boiler with a better grinder. However that is my personal preference on having used none of the machines you have listed.

Also, The Oracle is an automated machine, probably not a fair comparison to the others?


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Hi Sarah

That's a good budget for a machine and grinder.

I wouldn't under estimate the importance of the grinder.

Which Mazzer are they pairing the simonelli with?

Out of the other grinders you've mentioned I'd rate them in order of my preference as follows:-

Mignon

Vario

Sage Smart.

I have a sage db and think it's a great machine.

Boots and Gary have tried out the oracle so it might be worth hearing what they have to say.

The expobar is a great machine too. I've not tried a simonelli.

Do you mainly make milk based drinks?


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> I think you'd perhaps want to consider better grinders to pair with machines 1 and 3 to get the best out of them.


And there is your answer as to which machines from your list. A better (second hand) grinder is essential to get the best out of them though. If you don't want the faff of a Super Jolly doser then keep your eyes open for a used Brasilia OD or Eureka 65e or better.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

What's wrong with sage grinder?


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

it doesn't have to be brand new.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

Also, while the Musica compares on price, I don't think it compares in spec? IIRC it's an Oscar in a fancier chassis.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

Sarah0817 said:


> What's wrong with sage grinder?


The problem with all these grinders is that they will really limit the performance of the machine. They are just not in the same league as the machines listed. The limiting factors tend to be limited range of adjustment and small burrs.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Hi Sarah
> 
> That's a good budget for a machine and grinder.
> 
> ...


The simonelli is being paired with mazzer mini mod a


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

risky said:


> The problem with all these grinders is that they will really limit the performance of the machine. They are just not in the same league as the machines listed. The limiting factors tend to be limited range of adjustment and small burrs.


Does that include shimmed sage grinder?


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Hi Sarah
> 
> That's a good budget for a machine and grinder.
> 
> ...


Yes mainly milk based. My mother in law comes to the house for just a latte but she knows she's not allowed to touch my machines when I'm not home.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

Sarah0817 said:


> Does that include shimmed sage grinder?


The new Sage doesn't require shims I believe but it still is an entry level grinder IMO. A second hand super jolly at about £200 will probably outperform it.

The Mazzer they are pairing with the Musica is a step in the right direction but I don't think many people would buy a new Mazzer for the home environment when they can be had second hand for such cheap prices.

BTW if making mainly milk drinks the Sage DB is supposed to be brilliant for milk texturing.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

A friend of mine works for one of the retailers and have offered me a discount on the sage dual boiler. Mignon seems to be a popular choice here and sage forum


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Adding shims just makes it less of a 'not great' grinder and allows it to grind finer for espresso, I believe?


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

Just another question, is there a grinder that can do a wider range apart from espresso? I use v60, cold brew, chemex and aeropress sometimes. I use hario grinder for those.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sarah0817 said:


> The simonelli is being paired with mazzer mini mod a


A Mazzer mini would be better grind consistency compared to a Mignon. But I don't know if it would be significantly better (less clumpier definitely). @coffeechap on that one.

A Mazzer Super Jolly would be a significant step up though (I upgraded from a Mignon to a SJ).


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mignon is considered a good 'starter' grinder but there are far better performing grinders available, doubly so if considering used.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

Wow lots to think of. Ok sage grinder is officially off the list.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

Sarah0817 said:


> Mignon seems to be a popular choice here and sage forum


It's your money at the end of the day but I reckon you will end up wanting to upgrade the grinder.

You were originally considering an Oracle at circa £1500? The Sage DB is about £1000 with the discount I imagine? Plus if you're getting the free smart grinder sell that for some extra cash?

You should have pennies left over for something like this:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?26750-For-sale-La-Cimbali-Magnum-On-Demand-Grinder-with-Titanium-Burrs-%A3425

Or this if you want to save even more money?

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?26709-Mazzer-Major

Both will vastly outperform a Mignon.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

The db would be about 870 with discount. Oracle would be 1,280 with discount


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sarah0817 said:


> A friend of mine works for one of the retailers and have offered me a discount on the sage dual boiler. Mignon seems to be a popular choice here and sage forum


If you're set on the Sage DB why not get it with the smart grinder (if they're doing it for free with it). See how you get on it and you can always sell the smart grinder and put it towards a Mignon, Mazzer or whichever grinder you go for. Used grinder gets more for your buck.


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

That's a good discount. Both grinders I listed should hopefully be within budget still though?


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

risky said:


> That's a good discount. Both grinders I listed should hopefully be within budget still though?


Yes the cimbali is interesting. Watched the video of it in YouTube as well seems easy to use.


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

That is a superb price for a brand new SDB. Deffo would get my vote along with a quality grinder. I'd sell the Sage Smart Grinder unused so it fetches the highest price then put this towards a decent grinder. Otherwise you'll not be getting the most out of the SDB which would be sad shame.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> That is a superb price for a brand new SDB. Deffo would get my vote along with a quality grinder. I'd sell the Sage Smart Grinder unused so it fetches the highest price then put this towards a decent grinder. Otherwise you'll not be getting the most out of the SDB which would be sad shame.


I won't be able to get the free grinder as I think it's only from John Lewis. I'd rather get the sage dual boiler and get a 2nd hand grinder at this point especially at that price!

What grinder did you pair your db?


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Pretty sure you'll be able to claim the free Sage Smart grinder no matter which retailer you purchase it from providing it's bought before 31st Dec 2015. Redemption form here. Has to be signed by a Sage employee, presumably the one who visits to do the White Glove service.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

id watch the for sale section might be an immaculate 65e going up very soon!


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Pretty sure you'll be able to claim the free Sage Smart grinder no matter which retailer you purchase it from providing it's bought before 31st Dec 2015. Redemption form here. Has to be signed by a Sage employee, presumably the one who visits to do the White Glove service.


Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sarah0817 said:


> I won't be able to get the free grinder as I think it's only from John Lewis. I'd rather get the sage dual boiler and get a 2nd hand grinder at this point especially at that price!


That's a great option especially if you can get it at that price.


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> id watch the for sale section might be an immaculate 65e going up very soon!


I was just reading eureka! I thought that might be a better grinder for the sage plus it's got that digital display.


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Just to give you an idea of the type and quality of grinders that some of the SDB owning members here own:

garydyke1 & robashton - EK43

Beanosaurus - Ceado e37s


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Sarah0817 said:


> I was just reading eureka! I thought that might be a better grinder for the sage plus it's got that digital display.


I have a white one that will be listed this weekend


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I have a white one that will be listed this weekend


How much?


----------



## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

Is anyone having problems with tapatalk?

Right it's official sage db and hopefully coffeechaps 65e


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Yes, within tapatalk, notifications (messages, you and subscribed sub pages) haven't been working for a few hours for me this evening. Says 'Network currently is not available".

Good choice on equipment. So glad we talked you out of thinking the free Sage Smart grinder would be good enough for a SDB!


----------

