# Mazzer Mini or Super Jolly?



## migralda (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi all,

The time has come to upgrade my grinder from the MC2, I've looked at Vario's and Mignon's etc. but I'm not sure the improvement is a big enough step.

I've pretty much settled on a Mazzer and hopefully that will be it!

My question really is Mini or Super Jolly? ...I'm going to buy the timer/doser model and from what I can see there is only £30 difference in price, size is not a problem although I have no real use for the bigger hopper and would prefer the small one.. so it it's down to burr size/motor power etc.

Any advice or thoughts or even alternative suggestions would be appreciated because I'm stuck...







decision making is constipated


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Have a look here

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/

Scroll to the bottom and download the pdf of the eureka v the Mini.

The Eureka is a better grinder than the MAzzer at the price point. BB had a special deal on the forum @ £499 recently.......a lot of people bought them.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you've got space get an SJ


----------



## migralda (Nov 8, 2012)

Hmm... Mission creep setting in! the Zenith 65E is £90 more than the mini and not in stock of course?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Check the for sale forum!


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

There's a zenith for sale on here, might be with looking st that


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I wouldn't take it as a given that the Eureka 65E is better than the Mini.

I certainly haven't found it so.

Easier to live with, possibly. Better results in the cup? No.


----------



## migralda (Nov 8, 2012)

Thanks all, this is getting worse not better, spazbarista ..have you experience with both because dfk41 seems to live in newcastle and guess what..so do I !!

I had read the review but discounted it due to being a bit beyond my budget, I'm not all fired up by digital displays etc. I prefer good solid engineering.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Go round to DFK's and try it. He seems like an affable chap in real life.


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Will you be selling your MC2, if so then have you factored in what you may get for it on here?


----------



## migralda (Nov 8, 2012)

Unfortunately I am working in Scotland for the rest of the week so anything will have to wait until the weekend, what sort of price would an mc2 bring 2nd hand it's in perfect condition, un-modded and about 18 months old, sorry I'm not being lazy I'm not that good at this forum stuff as you can see by my poor post count!


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

migralda said:


> Thanks all, this is getting worse not better, spazbarista ..have you experience with both because dfk41 seems to live in newcastle and guess what..so do I !!
> 
> I had read the review but discounted it due to being a bit beyond my budget, I'm not all fired up by digital displays etc. I prefer good solid engineering.


I think dfk's deal is a good one.

The zenith is a big hefty grinder. It's good....grind is probably in same league as mini....but it isn't a league above.

It does have advantages. Zero grind retention, auto dosing.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Come and see it. I hate Mazzers despite their popularity


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Reckon you could get £80 - £90 for the MC2 if its in good nick.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Come and see it. I hate Mazzers despite their popularity


Why is that? Main reasons?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Go round to DFK's and try it. He seems like an affable chap in real life.


Thanks but stop spoiling my reputation........LOL


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

charris said:


> Why is that? Main reasons?


Why......because people blindly follow the name, assuming there is nothing else out there. this is based on nonsense talked on forums of course. there is nowt wrong with Mazzers, it is just that there actually are alternates, of which the Eureka is one. Look at the RR55......if oyu can find one it will e the same sort of price as a newer SJ and the SJ does not come anywhere near it in any department


----------



## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

where would I get a small hopper for the super jolly


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

How small? A camera lens hood will hold a couple of hundred g


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Why......because people blindly follow the name, assuming there is nothing else out there. this is based on nonsense talked on forums of course. there is nowt wrong with Mazzers, it is just that there actually are alternates, of which the Eureka is one. Look at the RR55......if oyu can find one it will e the same sort of price as a newer SJ and the SJ does not come anywhere near it in any department


Ok, fair enough. But I thought "hate" was a bit too much for a line that also includes the Robur which is easily one of the best grinders you can get.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I hate Roburs as well, just for the record!


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I hate Roburs as well, just for the record!


What about EKs?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What about them? They are not made by Mazzer. To some they are the second coming, to me, I would rather poke sticks in my eyes and dance around a camp fire singing YMCA whilst eating Vegan food than one. And in any case, they are yesterday's news with the Compak R120 about to hit the streets. I drink espresso in the traditional manner. I do not see why I should change my habit to accommodate some fancy spice grinder!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I hate Roburs as well, just for the record!


They are inanimate

Im sure they are ambivalent towards you ....


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What about them? They are not made by Mazzer. To some they are the second coming, to me, I would rather poke sticks in my eyes and dance around a camp fire singing YMCA whilst eating Vegan food than one. And in any case, they are yesterday's news with the Compak R120 about to hit the streets. I drink espresso in the traditional manner. I do not see why I should change my habit to accommodate some fancy spice grinder!


Im glad the man who invented espresso didn't think like that









" change the way i brew coffee, make it quicker , tastier , why ....... "


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Bootsie, I had my fingers crossed and my tongue in my cheek".........but, there is an element of truth in it


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Bootsie, I had my fingers crossed and my tongue in my cheek".........but, there is an element of truth in it


I know u did

So did i...

And i know you do


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Boots, that's absolute twaddle! You know fine well that developing something is fine, but when you produce something like an EK and expect it to work wonders at both ends of the scale, and it cannot. That is why this new long drink has developed as it is crap at proper espresso. So, to recap, own an EK and either drink crap espresso or kid yourself you are developing a new. Style!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Boots, that's absolute twaddle! You know fine well that developing something is fine, but when you produce something like an EK and expect it to work wonders at both ends of the scale, and it cannot. That is why this new long drink has developed as it is crap at proper espresso. So, to recap, own an EK and either drink crap espresso or kid yourself you are developing a new. Style!


Got you







.......


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dave have you had an EK espresso yet btw


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

bootsie baby, you are too sharp for me......please explain what you have got me? Is it animal, vegetable or mineral?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't want an EK espresso. That would be like asking me to go to an EK football match where they use a rugby ball


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What about them? They are not made by Mazzer. To some they are the second coming, to me, I would rather poke sticks in my eyes and dance around a camp fire singing YMCA whilst eating Vegan food than one. And in any case, they are yesterday's news with the Compak R120 about to hit the streets. I drink espresso in the traditional manner. I do not see why I should change my habit to accommodate some fancy spice grinder!


LOL .....a fantastic piece of visual text At least it's got you back to liking grinders rather than hating them. Have you tried out a Compak R120 yet?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Nope, not tried an R120 but I know a man who is......they do not interest me to be honest. I thought my K10 and the like were overkill for the home, but, I am proved wrong!


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

David(dfk41),

have you had a Robur and tested it or your opinion is based on your unjustified Mazzer hate?

I would ask the same about the EK but for now I care more about the Robur.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Don't want an EK espresso. That would be like asking me to go to an EK football match where they use a rugby ball


My step son is like that with Carrotts ......


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Charris, I have never tried a Robur and my bias is based on my hatred of all things Mazzer


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Robur, ok, let's be serious. They are good and have a strong following. Is there really anything between the top end conicals? I had a K10 and whilst I enjoyed it I would not have another conical as I found it just too difficult to live with.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Charris, I have never tried a Robur and my bias is based on my hatred of all things Mazzer


Have you ever owned a Mazzer or

Did a barista make you drink bad things made with one ?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Never had any desire to own a Mazzer. To many others do and as I have stated, there are alternates if you open your eyes. Actually, I was recently made a rank espresso on a Robur by a barista who knows what he is doing, but, has fallen into the trap of only stocking lightly roasted beans. I will not go back!


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Robur suffers from the same basic problem as all Mazzers do , an incredibly badly designed exit chute with a step in it from the burrs and no desire even in their very latest model the Kold to correct this. To be fair Mazzers are a good workhorse middle of the road grinder, all the way up the range there are far better, and far worse grinders, they are also bloody expensive when compared to a lot of their competition too.

When it come to the EK I have tasted shots both brewed and espresso from one, and appreciate that for some people who have an urge to feel like they are on the bleeding edge of their chosen hobby, and like the style of espresso that goes with the whole EK thing then fine go for it, BUT, don't try and tell the rest of us we are missing out, because as has been documented by far wiser people than any of us here, it isn't better, it's different. Different and better do not necessarily go hand in hand, if it's what floats your boat then fine but don't go preaching that it's the second coming as it isn't. I know myself that if I had spent £2k on a grinder then another £400 on some more burrs then I would be singing it's praises too, but that's human nature. It will certainly be interesting to see what the big Compak grinder is like. For me, my Mythos does exactly what I want- it enables me to make damn tasty coffee without having to try and re-define how I perceive coffee.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Come and see it. I hate Mazzers despite their popularity


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I can think of a few things worth bickering over, but even if I try really hard a bleeding coffee grinder isn't one of them.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

View attachment 7906


...................


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Not preaching ,

Not converting ....

just asking questions ......

Lifes too short Charlie....


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mazzers are designed quite well for their intended use I would say.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Charliej said:


> I know myself that if I had spent £2k on a grinder then another £400 on some more burrs then I would be singing it's praises too,


You'd of been ripped off


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Martin if the cap fits etc., just like you I'm entitled to my view and for me the jury is still out- I had the cash and the opportunity to buy an EK shortly after I bought the Mythos and for the very reasons I stated above chose not to buy one. It does currently seem that the minute anyone questions anything to do with the EK along comes an owner justifying them in some way or another, your chosen justification in the above post is "just asking questions" which is fine, but remember we also are entitled to ask questions and have a point of view and you seem to view my personal opinion as some form of attack although every part of what I said can be documented and is not just my view.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> they are yesterday's news with the Compak R120 about to hit the streets.


The reams of scientific tests, TDS measurements and blind taste tests confirm this as FACT. Where do I sign?


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ever since I purchased an EK43 my coffee world has collapsed. I cant make a single good drink anymore and its such hard work. Its the worst use of money I've ever known.*

*These statements have not been evaluated by Matt Perger


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Gary getting worried........?.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I dont have a cap

My heads to big to fit one

Make of that what you will.....










Unsure where this jury is

Oh hang on , its in my taste buds.........









Buy one , dont buy one ,

try some drink from one

Dont try drinks from one .

Off to watch football now


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> You'd of been ripped off


Not everyone has access to the sources you have so most people buying one will be paying around £2k and £400 for the Turkish burrs isn't that far off either, you're happy with your EK which is fine, it doesn't make any none EK owners viewpoints less valid regarding the purchase and use of them and the documented differences between a more "traditional" style of espresso and that produced using an EK. I do know that pushing the boundaries can lead to developments in technique and technology that will have a knock on effect on a wider number of people, equally sometimes it produces a blind alley. Areas of the EK obviously need addressing such as Coffeechap's statement that a number of EK's in cafe service have had issues with the on/off switch as they aren't made to be used in that way so they aren't exactly the finished product yet, more of a waypoint.


----------



## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Oh look, another EK flare up...


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Gary getting worried........?.


Literally cannot prevent waves of liquid excrement seeping from my quivering underpants.

Have my EK43 gumtree advert ready to unleash!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Gangstarrrrr said:


> Oh look, another EK flare up...


I think we were originally discussing why Mazzers were crap thank you ....


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Charliej said:


> Not everyone has access to the sources you have so most people buying one will be paying around £2k and £400 for the Turkish burrs isn't that far off either, you're happy with your EK which is fine, it doesn't make any none EK owners viewpoints less valid regarding the purchase and use of them and the documented differences between a more "traditional" style of espresso and that produced using an EK. I do know that pushing the boundaries can lead to developments in technique and technology that will have a knock on effect on a wider number of people, equally sometimes it produces a blind alley. Areas of the EK obviously need addressing such as Coffeechap's statement that a number of EK's in cafe service have had issues with the on/off switch as they aren't made to be used in that way so they aren't exactly the finished product yet, more of a waypoint.


For the record I do not own turkish burrs & have not tasted anything to make me want to purchase some (yet).


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

That's what I would do Gary. Now that fish and chip shops cannot use printed paper, Gumtree takes yesterday's news. Well done for forward thinking!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Know what you mean, Gary. Very brave of you to state this 'fact'. I'm going back to using my Spong.


Didn't Cisco make a song about that?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Didn't Cisco make a song about that?


What the computer company ?


----------



## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

The top end grinder world is really running very warm tonight.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Back to the OPs original question. If you can fit in a SJ I'd rate it over a Mini.

Dave (CoffeeChap) tends to have some Mazzers in varying states and does them up with customised paint jobs. He may have something like an RR55 for a bit more which will be a jump up from an SJ.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Charliej said:


> Areas of the EK obviously need addressing such as Coffeechap's statement that a number of EK's in cafe service have had issues with the on/off switch as they aren't made to be used in that way so they aren't exactly the finished product yet, more of a waypoint.


Charlie,

this is a bit too much I think. You just took something Dave mentioned and you turned it into a conclusion which is the exact opposite to the fact that the EK is one of the most reliable grinders ever used - I had the chance to speak to a few roasters/cafe owners that have owned a few EKs for a few decades so it is a finished product. What I don't understand is why you are so against the EK43 and also how do you justify discussing against it without testing one? Also making some unjustified conclusions based on manipulating a sentence somebody said does not really show much depth in the reasoning of someone. I really believe you are very knowledgable and you know your things around coffee but trying to praise the things you have owned or criticizing (without justification) other products which you have not tested, just does not make any sense to me.

Here is my thread which shows how reliable the EKs are:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?15512-Grinding-since-1987


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Charliej said:


> it doesn't make any none EK owners viewpoints less valid regarding the purchase and use of them and the documented differences between a more "traditional" style of espresso and that produced using an EK


Yes it does.

I'd far rather listen to an opinion on an EK from somebody who owns one and is able to give a comparison than somebody who is guffing out of their arse.

Call me old-fashioned.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> Yes it does.
> 
> I'd far rather listen to an opinion on an EK from somebody who owns one and is able to give a comparison than somebody who is guffing out of their arse.
> 
> Call me old-fashioned.


If you've tasted the output from them and own an excellent grinder that makes a more traditional tasting coffee you have a basis for a viewpoint combined with the other reading available from early adopters that abounds online, which conclude that it makes a different tasting shot and different is not necessarily better, there is room in the world for both styles of coffee, and leave the personal attacks at home you've been wrong about things on many occasions and have no idea about what I have and have not tasted.


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Equally I'll not give much credence to regurgitated received internet opinion. It doesn't help at all. If six people regurgitate one person's opinion then it is still just one person's opinion. Other people start to take it as fact.

Harry Callaghan was right about opinions. I think we should have a forum rule making it compulsory to state whether one has actual non-superficial experience of equipment when giving an opinion on it.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Charliej said:


> If you've tasted the output from them and own an excellent grinder that makes a more traditional tasting coffee you have a basis for a viewpoint combined with the other reading available from early adopters that abounds online, which conclude that it makes a different tasting shot and different is not necessarily better, there is room in the world for both styles of coffee, and leave the personal attacks at home you've been wrong about things on many occasions and have no idea about what I have and have not tasted.


Ive owned :

MC2

Mazzer Mini-e

Mazzer Royal

and used :

Azkoyen Cappriccio (working bar)

Anfim Caimano

Anfim doserless (working bar)

Mazzer Major

Quamar M80e

k30

Robur-e

Am I an early adopter with an invalid perspective on espresso/EKpresso?

The difference isnt 'taste' so much. Its a) body versus b) sweetness and clarity

The same coffee is recognisable thru both grinders IMO


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Why did you ever sell the MC2?


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Why did you ever sell the MC2?


Wasnt quite loud enough


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Charlie,

stating that the EK is not a finished is pushing it a lot. This grinder is beyond reliable and has been tested for decades. I have discussed this with a few roasters/coffee owners that have owned almost every grinder available. Dave's (coffechap) statement was that a few cafes were not using correctly the on/off button and not that the grinder is not reliable. I will remind you again of these EKs that are older than some guys here:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?15512-Grinding-since-1987


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Can we draw a line under this please? This thread isn't about the EK. If you want to debate the EK, start a new thread or use an existing one. Further EK related posts on this thread will be removed.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

charris said:


> Charlie,
> 
> this is a bit too much I think. You just took something Dave mentioned and you turned it into a conclusion which is the exact opposite to the fact that the EK is one of the most reliable grinders ever used - I had the chance to speak to a few roasters/cafe owners that have owned a few EKs for a few decades so it is a finished product. What I don't understand is why you are so against the EK43 and also how do you justify discussing against it without testing one? Also making some unjustified conclusions based on manipulating a sentence somebody said does not really show much depth in the reasoning of someone. I really believe you are very knowledgable and you know your things around coffee but trying to praise the things you have owned or criticizing (without justification) other products which you have not tested, just does not make any sense to me.
> 
> ...


EK 43s were never designed to be used as a grinder used in a cafe or coffee shop, but as more of a shop/deli grinder so unfortunately some on/off switches are going to fail because they are not rated for continual pulsed use and that is a fact which Dave would not state lightly which all I did was mention, unfinished article is used in the sense that it does something different, but presents issues of it's own, saying it is a waypoint and not yet a fully fledged solution is echoing the statements made by Colin Harmon of 3FE who was one of the 1st people to swap over entirely to an EK 43 in a busy modern coffee shop environment for all coffee, espresso and brewed, and has since moved to using the NS Mythos One.

One needs only look at the several different versions of the grinder dial and the varying approaches to getting the grinds into the portafilter and consequent modifications. I am not against the EK43 what I am against is the people claiming that it is the be all and end all ultimate grinder and the second coming rolled into one, more knowledgeable people that any of us have on more than one occasion reiterated that it is different not better just different.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I would like to accurately reflect the statement I made, which was some busy cafés in Australia were experiencing breakdowns of the Ek43 when constantly using them in on off mode. The ek43 is designed to be turned on and left on for a while and it is the horse power that us causing the failures, however it is exceptionally unlikely that these failures will happen from home use and therefore in the context of the forum then reliability issues is a non starter Charlie

The Ek 43 has redefined what a complete grinder should be, it is excellent at all brew methods and to date is the best grinder I have ever owned ( probably owned more than anyone else, excepting dfk or course)


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Please leave this mods as I have been quoted in the thread, I will not post anymore on thus


----------



## migralda (Nov 8, 2012)

Well after missing one in the for sale section here I did some more reading up took the plunge ...and bought a new Eureka Zenith 65E.

It arrived today!

I've dialed it in, run some coffee through it and had to stop because stocks were getting dangerously low & of course I'll need a shot or two in the morning









Two questions, do all grinder burrs need seasoning? and will the heat of the grinder affect the grind settings?

What I mean is.. by the time I had fiddled on and tweaked, the grinder was warm to the touch, in the morning it will be cold.. with expansion and the like will taht throw the grind off?


----------



## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

migralda said:


> Well after missing one in the for sale section here I did some more reading up took the plunge ...and bought a new Eureka Zenith 65E.
> 
> It arrived today!
> 
> off?


Hi

could you please let me know :

what colour have you got? Black or white? Do you know when white colour one will be in stock?

How long does it take to delivery?

Thanks


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

JK009 said:


> Hi
> 
> could you please let me know :
> 
> ...


Asking BB ( bella barista ) some of these questions would be more pertinent


----------



## migralda (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi JK009

I got a black one, they just came back into stock at Bella Barista on Monday I believe. Their website is showing both in stock but a quick call or email to them should confirm it...I got next day delivery so mine arrived Tuesday afternoon...excellent service from them I have to say.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Asking BB ( bella barista ) some of these questions would be more pertinent


Boots do you know if Sports Direct in Whitstable have any Man City home tops in a large?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Boots do you know if Sports Direct in Whitstable have any Man City home tops in a large?


Trick question

There isn't a sports direct in whitstable

Nearest one is Stour


----------

