# DB overheating and gargling



## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Morning guys,

Having a few issues with my DB after a couple of years of faultless service and regular maintenance. I set the machine to come on every morning so normally everything is nice and preheated, however this morning I noticed that the 93 was flashing and the surface temp on the top of the machine was noticeably hotter than normal. I am going to try a full boiler descale tonight see if that helps. Just wondered if you guys had any other suggestions.

Thanks

Tom


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

On a whim what DB a Sage?


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Yes mate


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Do you use bottled water.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Jony said:


> Do you use bottled water.


No, but we have extremely soft tap water. Machine is descaled regularly.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

If you can take the top of it would be worth checking you have no leaks on top of the boilers. To be fair if none of the o rings haven't been changed yet I would suspect that may be the problem. Hope that's all it is for you as it's also an easy repair.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Craig-R872 said:


> If you can take the top of it would be worth checking you have no leaks on top of the boilers. To be fair if none of the o rings haven't been changed yet I would suspect that may be the problem. Hope that's all it is for you as it's also an easy repair.


Thanks for that Craig, will take a look tonight.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Craig-R872 said:


> If you can take the top of it would be worth checking you have no leaks on top of the boilers. To be fair if none of the o rings haven't been changed yet I would suspect that may be the problem. Hope that's all it is for you as it's also an easy repair.


Hi Craig have you carried this out? Would you happen to know the part number for the new o rings? Thanks


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

smidster09 said:


> Hi Craig have you carried this out? Would you happen to know the part number for the new o rings? Thanks


I don't know the part numbers but looking on other forums it's seems like bs006 and bs010 are the same. I had a few changed when the engineer came last and replaced my solenoid.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mine flashes 93 when ever I have run hot water. I run 300ml odd for each drink. I assume it means that brew temperature is a bit out. Stops after about 20 - 30 sec.

@Craig-R872

Where did you see O ring references ?

In anticipation I have been looking around at O rings. It's rather hard to know what material they use. None seem to be ideally suitable especially for a steam boiler. It might pay to get the correct parts from Sage. Costs should be very low - well aught to be. They probably use silicone rubber but even that is not 100% when there is steam about. Viton with a coat of silicone grease is also mentioned elsewhere. Grease to help stop them from hardening. @DavecUK may know what is used on other makes when steam is about.

Interesting comment about an updated DB here - no O rings

https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/confused-breville-dual-boiler-owner-t51588-60.html

Other "interesting" comments in places too but one about descaling that probably came from a troll. It's a very recent thread.

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Normally Viton is used


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Normally Viton is used


Viton it seems is the better choice. But Sage use the (red) silicon. I will be replacing mine with viton when needed.

The sizes are on another coffee forum it seems as though 006.or 007 can be used. The preference leading towards 007. These are easily obtained via eBay.

If you were to run the hot tap it will flash as the brew boiler reheats it's depleted water, this is normal.

On a side note I asked sage to supply me with the o rings or the o ring number and they wouldn't. They sent an engineer to replace 1 that had failed!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Craig-R872 said:


> On a side note I asked sage to supply me with the o rings or the o ring number and they wouldn't. They sent an engineer to replace 1 that had failed!


The sign of a supplier people shouldn't buy from....I hate that sort of protectionism. Especially when it's a penny part!


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> The sign of a supplier people shouldn't buy from....I hate that sort of protectionism. Especially when it's a penny part!


My thoughts exactly Dave. I did have the pleasure in telling them my thoughts on that. Fortunately it seems that most of the replacement parts can be obtained from other sources tho.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I went through a few things to fix a leak. Only one fixed it was Viton. Thanks to Davec


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've seen one post suggesting Viton is ok if coated with silicone grease - extends the life. 5 years was suggested. Main problem area really is likely to be the steam boiler - not exactly a common place to have O rings.

Some O ring sellers give compatibility info. This suggests that silicone's resistance to steam up to 150C is fair. Other similar sources mention the same sort of thing - intermittent etc. They are no good at all for sliding seals and Viton is probably ok away from the steam boiler but silicone is going to have an extended life anyway.

I did manage to dig up some BS numbers. I haven't seen the seals so no idea of sizes. BS202 is 1/4x1/2 with 3.53mm section. The 1/8x1/4 one are a bit trickier as there isn't a number for one with around a 1/8" section only 1.78mm. That's BS006. Up the section and it becomes an 1/8x5/16 part with a 2.62mm section, BS104. If Sage use a special 2 of the 1.78mm section ones should do the job.

Where to buy? Not sure. RS is one place that is likely to sell quality ones but they come in bags of 50 and of course are dearer than other sources.

I still have an open mind about buying official spares as I was sent something deeply buried in my BE by mistake. If that can be ordered as a spare other things should be available as well.

It's pretty clear from the web that certain things can be replaced anyway. Pumps and OPV for instance. It seems 3 ways may be revived by dismantling and cleaning.

John

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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks John


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Jony said:


> I went through a few things to fix a leak. Only one fixed it was Viton. Thanks to Davec


Well take your pick

View attachment 36499


























John

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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Thanks for your Random links that don't help. I have ebay link if OP wants it.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

Jony said:


> Thanks for your Random links that don't help. I have ebay link if OP wants it.


OP took my advice and fixed his problem. I believe he was able to source a oring locally.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Jony said:


> Thanks for your Random links that don't help. I have ebay link if OP wants it.


As I said take your pick. If some one follows the coat viton with silicone grease I'd suggest getting the small tubes of it that divers and air rifle people use as it will be the correct grade.

The link - well it seems that some DB owners may have problems open them up and find no O rings but there are one or two "interesting" things relating to failures there as well.

John

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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Jony said:


> Thanks for your Random links that don't help. I have ebay link if OP wants it.


That would be great yes please, I bought a set of o rings from Screwfix which weren't a perfect fit. It fixed the leak but I wouldn't mind putting the correct part in at some point.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Will dig it out in a hour when I am in.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

smidster09 said:


> That would be great yes please, I bought a set of o rings from Screwfix which weren't a perfect fit. It fixed the leak but I wouldn't mind putting the correct part in at some point.


Have been trying to message you but your inbox is full mate.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F371552320194

They also sell the viton.

Have been told from someone who has replaced these that the 007 fit better.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Was this company

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/seal-extrusions

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VITON-RUBBER-SHEET-GRADE-A-VARIOUS-SIZE-AND-THICKNESS/223010109889?hash=item33ec7039c1:m:mEalBnRwqY5dhBIVGPZeXJw


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> Have been trying to message you but your inbox is full mate.
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F371552320194
> 
> ...


I haven't seen the O rings so the BS numbers I mentioned just seem to be the right size but the only way to be sure is to measure one out of a machine and see. Just giving outside and inside diameter doesn't provide the info that is needed as section size can vary.







Some must be less of an O than others and I think it's the thickness that sets the sealing pressure but again haven't had one out to see. All I have seen was on a video of an older machine.

John

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## timaldridge8 (May 17, 2015)

Having the exact same issue with my Sage DB. Overheating, leaking out the bottom and making a gargling noise


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> The sign of a supplier people shouldn't buy from....I hate that sort of protectionism. Especially when it's a penny part!


I broached this subject with Sage in another way - parts lists with diagrams. The lady said "Can't provide those for obvious reasons". That could be taken in several different ways so maybe I should have asked why.

One thing I do know - Coffee Classics wont supply parts directly as Sage have recently said that they want to do that themselves. A brand also selling parts isn't that unusual but it needs some effort on web sites to allow people to pick the correct part or as Fracino do make the lists downloadable. The last thing I would have thought any company would do is have call centre people picking parts from descriptions given over the phone.

One thing for sure is that if their machines can't be repaired cheaply and easily by people themselves as most can be the 2nd hand value of all Sage machines is much nearer to zero than it currently is. As parts that do generally fail aren't that expensive they aren't really worth much in terms of buying for spares as the ones that do go will be on their way out anyway.








My feeling on the DB is that it could do with a bit more engineering effort but I wouldn't include not using O rings in that but maybe another way s cheaper and lasts longer. The other things - problem with engineering, it's not possible to know if something can be improved until some one tries. It often starts from need along with a gut feeling that things could be better.







What we get is touch instead or may get on the DB at some point.

John

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