# Im loving singles right now



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Dunno why but i have ditched my naked PF and resorted to split pours and having 2 singles rather than a double. Im using ''2ipa7'' cups with illy logos which have very rounded bottoms, emthasises the mouthfeel and i'm 'chewing the shot'. In a double the first slurp isnt as satisfying as the 2nd, unless vigourously stirred

Singles - they seem to taste better !

Random post I know, but feel free to discuss


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i love single a single shot latte in the illy cap cup, the blend just tastes and feels right.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Dunno why but i have ditched my naked PF and resorted to split pours and having 2 singles rather than a double. Im using ''2ipa7'' cups with illy logos which have very rounded bottoms, emthasises the mouthfeel and i'm 'chewing the shot'. In a double the first slurp isnt as satisfying as the 2nd, unless vigourously stirred
> 
> Singles - they seem to taste better !
> 
> Random post I know, but feel free to discuss


How's the crema? Are you stirring the crema? Is it glupy (like from a Cynesso)?

Anything to do with mouthfeel is going to relate to the crema, air in liquid interface.....foamy emulsion!

Gary (random post but feel free to discuss) are you still using 18/20g VST? I just ordered an EP HQ double basket and will be giving that a thorough workout.

On my 15g VST I got to a point where no or any WDT, medium or soft tamp was causing channeling near the end of the shot. I think it was to do with having to down-dose due to imposing dispersion screen on cherub. The precision cut basket perfectly designed for even extraction is bolloc** if its going to channel like a bitch on heat!

Also I recall Steve saying he preferred the EP HQ baskets on his slayer for various reasons (none of which I remember). Can't wait till see the difference!


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> I just ordered an EP HQ double basket and will be giving that a thorough workout.


Interesting. That was always an irritation with the 'LM' double ridgeless that a good number of the holes weren't in fact holes. It sounds like Coffeehit have solved that particular bugbear. Be good to hear how you find it compared with the VST.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

fatboyslim said:


> How's the crema? Are you stirring the crema? Is it glupy (like from a Cynesso)?
> 
> Anything to do with mouthfeel is going to relate to the crema, air in liquid interface.....foamy emulsion!
> 
> ...


I'm also tempted by the EP HQ double/triple baskets - the VST seems very fussy to me! I remember at the Extract day that Sam had a go with their new VST on the San Remo and switched back to the standard double/triple they were using. I have a wedding to save for so I shouldn't be buying anything at the moment so ill hold off until you give it the all clear - also a certain other coffee related project is taking up quite a lot of time/money at the moment!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Shhh keep that super secret project quiet! I will thoroughly test the EP HQ double basket with half a kilo of HB Bolivia Copacabana (my favourite coffee of last year).

This year's crop is pretty immense too as brewed.

Did you manage to hire a Cynesso 3 group and dual Roburs for your wedding Luke? he he he!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes! Get the whole shot (or half of it) in there, in one gulp! You get the beginning, middle & end all at the same time, rather than an acidic first sip and "ooh hang on, it's getting better...?" ;-)

I'm even finding myself brewing coffee in ever smaller measures too (by the cup, rather than mug), only larger brews for more people & carefully split (though the Sowden is pretty consistent, from start to finish, over larger volumes).


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

That's why you stir the espresso before drinking?


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

I really like splitting doubles into a demitasse and a small cappuccino cup - it's interesting to taste espresso and then the same espresso in milk side by side.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> That's why you stir the espresso before drinking?


Why fight gravity at all? He never sleeps...as soon as you stop stirring the coffee starts settling back again.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Why fight gravity at all? He never sleeps...as soon as you stop stirring the coffee starts settling back again.


If minutely differing length volatiles settled down in order of size instantaneously then that would sure save industry and research huge costs on industrial sized centrifuges.

Whilst any actual solids would find their way to the bottom of the cup, these are rarely found in espressos from high-end machines.

Gravity just wouldn't work that quickly. Stir and have peace of mind that your coffee is still a uniform mixture


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> In a double the first slurp isnt as satisfying as the 2nd, unless vigourously stirred


You know I've sometimes found this too. I thought it was down to the espresso being the first thing to pass my lips since waking up and that I just had to get used to the strong flavours. I might try this tomorrow and test your theory


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> If minutely differing length volatiles settled down in order of size instantaneously then that would sure save industry and research huge costs on industrial sized centrifuges.
> 
> Whilst any actual solids would find their way to the bottom of the cup, these are rarely found in espressos from high-end machines.
> 
> Gravity just wouldn't work that quickly. Stir and have peace of mind that your coffee is still a uniform mixture


I'm not talking about undissolved solids necessarily, though espresso normally consists of some...whether you actually see them or not. The differing components of a coffee, in terms of liquid/dissolved solids, appear have differing specific gravities. Gravity has a constant and persistent effect. As Gary points out in the OP, stirring can negate the layering effect to some degree.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Gary what portafilter do you have? I want to split my shot for reasons mentioned about tasting the espresso next to a traditional cap. My expobar portafilter won't hold the 18g vst though and neither did my old fracino one.


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

I use the 18g VST in my expo PF,fits fine


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> How's the crema? Are you stirring the crema? Is it glupy (like from a Cynesso)?
> 
> Anything to do with mouthfeel is going to relate to the crema, air in liquid interface.....foamy emulsion!
> 
> ...


I gave up on the EQ . Since adopting the sinple thwack and tamp technique I get brilliant results from the VSTs.

The 18g is my go to, however If I have a lot of coffee on my hands and want slightly larger drinks then I whip the 20g out. Both need dialling in separately for obvious reasons.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm glad your getting good results. Unfortunately either my technique is really bad or VSTs are just not SJ friendly... Damn you Roy!!!!

What were your reasons for giving up on EP HQ basket?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> How's the crema? Are you stirring the crema? Is it glupy (like from a Cynesso)?
> 
> Anything to do with mouthfeel is going to relate to the crema, air in liquid interface.....foamy emulsion!


Clearly the expo isnt going to be comparable to the Cynesso, crema is ample but not to the level of the naked PF - doesnt affect taste.

The mouthfeel difference isnt crema IMO. Its difficult to explain


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I tried the 2x single this morning. Sadly I got more out of one side than the other which made one shot horribly thin and watery. Interesting none the less. Must try harder next time


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> I'm glad your getting good results. Unfortunately either my technique is really bad or VSTs are just not SJ friendly... Damn you Roy!!!!
> 
> What were your reasons for giving up on EP HQ basket?


Examining the pucks VST versus EQ side by side - EQ showed over extracted edges & pucks were not knocking out as well

You cannot compared 64mm versus 83mm burrs & 900w motor ; )

VSTs should be any grinder friendly, its about distribution with the VST


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

chimpsinties said:


> I tried the 2x single this morning. Sadly I got more out of one side than the other which made one shot horribly thin and watery. Interesting none the less. Must try harder next time


distribution ; )

Yesterdays single - left spout 12.9g ....right spout 13.1g they tasted identical (well I have a cold still)


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

What is this mythical thwack you describe? A tap down on the pf?

I found a gentle tap can cause slight cracks in the grounds I've found.

Spending so much time away from my cherub has been really damaging to my mad skillz.

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> What is this mythical thwack you describe? A tap down on the pf?
> 
> I found a gentle tap can cause slight cracks in the grounds I've found.
> 
> ...


Dude your skills are not in question, they are suitably mad.

Thwacking the doser rapid fashion, neat mound...tamp straight down once.

Only tapping down the PF on the fork to colapse the coffeebed if stuggling to fit the dose in


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> distribution ; )
> 
> Yesterdays single - left spout 12.9g ....right spout 13.1g they tasted identical (well I have a cold still)


Haha, I had about 30g in one and 10g in the other. I just poured them together after a tiny taste of each.

How did you get your cups and scales on the machine at the same time? Or did you weigh them after? I can't fit 2 cups on my scales


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

chimpsinties said:


> Haha, I had about 30g in one and 10g in the other. I just poured them together after a tiny taste of each.
> 
> How did you get your cups and scales on the machine at the same time? Or did you weigh them after? I can't fit 2 cups on my scales


Preweighed the empty cups


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Dude your skills are not in question, they are suitably mad.
> 
> Thwacking the doser rapid fashion, neat mound...tamp straight down once.
> 
> Only tapping down the PF on the fork to colapse the coffeebed if stuggling to fit the dose in


Thanks man! I'm just going to get properly reacquainted with cherub/SJ and find either 15g/17g VST or EP HQ basket and stick with that for the whole week that I'm home lol!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If anyone wants the EQ HQ basket then drop me a PM, you can have it, just buy me a beer some time!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

chimpsinties said:


> Haha, I had about 30g in one and 10g in the other. I just poured them together after a tiny taste of each.
> 
> How did you get your cups and scales on the machine at the same time? Or did you weigh them after? I can't fit 2 cups on my scales


It might be worth double checking worktop/machine level with a spirit level?


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Yeah I'll probably do that tonight.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Interesting first go with the EP HQ basket. Definitely more consistent, less fussy and nicer pours. Perhaps overextracting on the edge slightly but this is still preferable to savage amounts of channeling.

Good flavours even from a light roast. Not going to be going back to VSTs for awhile.

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I certainly get that the EQ basket is like stablisers on a bike, you feel fun and safe. However learn to ride the VST and theres no looking back ; )


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Condescending simile? I've tried VST in my Cherub ever since I got it and whilst occasionally I can get good pours, the imposing dispersion screen interferes with the optimum dosage range of both VST baskets.

This means I have to down dose which may be the route of my problems. Basically I wanted a basket that is easier to use and still gives great results and I've got that in the EP HQ.

Still using 14g but it gives very nice pours and favours a slightly harder tamp. I'll try and get some pictures of pours up.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

I've been reading up on VSTs recently and it seems like downdosing is the key to better pours. Going down to 16.5g in the 18g is giving better looking pours and better tasting shots at the cost of some volume.

Gary has very kindly offered me his EP HQ so I'm going to give that a try too.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes that makes sense as you'd be increasing the headroom between the puck and dispersion screen, allowing more even extraction.

UNLESS you have a Cherub with its mahoooooosive dispersion screen and minimal headroom. Maybe I should play around more with VSTs but I don't have time when I only get to see my Cherub every few months









EP HQs giving erotic amounts of crema


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