# New member looking for a new setup



## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

Hello all!

After 10 years of faithful service, my Delonghi bean to cup is finally worn out, grind size now seems to be random, water is leaking from various valves, the water level sensor is broke and the brew head is worn out and need lubricating every other day.

I have been itching for an upgrade for a few years now, a work trip to Milan opened my eyes to real coffee - even the espresso from the work vending machine was better than anything I can remember having from my Delonghi or the Nespresso before it!

I started looking at new bean to cup machines a month or so ago but, as with anything I ever do, I have had a serious case of spec creep. I progressed to looking at a separate machine and grinder. A Silvia and a rocky, then I found the Expobar machines, then I found rotary pump dual boiler machines and the Mignon...

After many hours on YouTube and various web sites I think I need to buy the best I can afford. I would like a machine that uses as many 'commercial grade' parts as possible. Parts that are easily sourced in the future should they fail - no matter if the manufacturer of the machine is still in business. I would expect this to be a machine to last a VERY long time.

I had my sights set on an R58 but the custom 'Rocket' PID and level sensor controller puts me off. I am now looking at either the Profitec Pro700 or the Verona from Bella. I like the idea of the stainless boilers on the Pro700 but does this really make a difference? Is there much else seperating these machines?

As far as the whole package goes I'm currently thinking one of these two machines and either a Eureka Zenith 65e or the new Atom. The current price reduction on the Verona with the incorrect badge makes it slightly more attractive.

As for the grinder, there is very little info on the Atom. I would prefer the Atom as it is supposedly quieter and its footprint is smaller - higher Wife Acceptance Factor! It is more expensive and the performance is unknown vs the Zenith - unless someone on here has any further insight into the relative grinding performance of the Atom grinder? The noise reduction would be a nice to have, but not at the expense of grinding performance.

Decisions, decisions...

Thanks,

Ian


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Ian_T said:


> Hello all!
> 
> After many hours on YouTube and various web sites I think I need to buy the best I can afford. I would like a machine that uses as many 'commercial grade' parts as possible. Parts that are easily sourced in the future should they fail - no matter if the manufacturer of the machine is still in business. I would expect this to be a machine to last a VERY long time.
> 
> Ian


Londinium L1 puts a very big tick to the statement


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

....as I'm sure most people would agree, I'd just be careful to give the grinder priority if results in the cup is the most important factor for you.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

If noise and quality of cup are foremost then a londinium plumbed in with a hand powered grinder (HG1?) don't get much quieter and will give excellent results in the cup.

Noise is relative though as regards grinders and would certainly advise going for a listen ( and a taste) at somewhere like Foundry for the Londinium (and some grinders) or Bella Barista if you can get there (advise call both first to arrange some time with them) as you will be spending a fair bit of money. There is no substitute for seeing hearing them for yourself as it will be you that lives with them and your taste buds drinking the output.

As regards noise on grinders bigger quicker grinders by default grind quicker so noise is for a shorter period of time / smaller grinders will in the main take longer or may have a different "note". Compare the noise to some other types of gadgets living in a kitchen such as food processor, electric mixer and likely the grinder will be quieter.

Best of luck in your upgrade, let us know how you get on.

John


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

It's a good point about time vs noise. For example, my MC2 made a racket, because it is made of thin metal. My Mazzer Mini doser was quieter, but then you had the thwack thwack of the doser lever. The 65E was significantly quieter, and ran for about 10-11 seconds per 18g. My Ceado may be quieter still, and grinds 18g in 5 seconds. The rotary pump on the R58 runs for 25-35 seconds when pulling a shot obviously, and for maybe 1-2 seconds when auto-filling the boiler. The noise of a rotary pump is considerably less penetrating than the loud buzz from a vibe pump, but of course a lever is going to win the decibel challenge hands down.


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## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

Thanks for the input,

Low noise is a nice to have, but quality of output is what really matters to me. I get up for work at 4:15 in the morning and the old Delonghi would wake the entire house if I switched it on at that time - it is loud but the noise also seems to go on for ever as it heats up, flushes and moves the infuser around. All that before the grinder fires up and rattles the machine and everything else in the kitchen...

A few seconds of a stand alone grinder should be OK but a quieter one would be an advantage. Hence the 65E and Atom grind quality questions...

That Londinium does look nice, but blows my budget a little bit...

Cheers,

Ian


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I can't say how the 65E compares to the Atom as it's new and I've not seen one, but I always had good results from t the Zenith. It's about the most user friendly grinder you can get, and grinds quality is at least Super Jolly level. The next level/size up is the Olympus 75e - the earlier ones were 900rpm which was ideal - the later ones are 1400rpm which seems a backwards step really but I assume it was easier/cheaper to manufacture.

Not sure what's offputting about the PID on the R58 - it's about the only machine you can actually remove the PID from. The R58 is a PID machine for people who don't want a PID spoiling the traditional looks. You set it up, and then have the choice of leaving it on to monitor temp, or disconnect the display (that's all it is). The Verona has the PID built in to the front. But the Verona is s very good machine that comes well recommended from those in the know.


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## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

My only issue with the R58 PID is that it is a custom PCB made by or for Rocket, specifically for the R58. If Rocket discontinues support for the R58 for any reason then it's a big job to retrofit something else in there. I can see it being much easier to source a standard part (like a Gicar PID or level sensor controller) if something was to happen to it 10 years down the line.

Thanks for the info on the grinder, I'm planning a trip to Bella Barista either next week or the week after (just realised they are only a 30 minute drive from where I work). I will quiz them about the Atom.

I think the decision on the machine will probably come down to aesthetics between the Profitec Pro700 and the Verona.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

I would also include the Quick Mill Verona Version 2, which has unique features, specified by Bella Barista. If you read the in depth review, its one of the best designed coffee machines ever made. https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/QuickmillVeronaCloserLook2013v1.pdf


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## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

It's on the short list with the Profitec. Going to see both next week.


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## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

Paid a visit to Bella on Thursday.

Can't praise the staff of this place enough. The decision was easy in the end, the Verona won out. It was cheaper and in my opinion looked better than the Profitec. The machine was also on demonstration in the shop which helped.

For the grinder, I went for the Atom. They had this in use at the shop along with the Zenith. The Atom was much quieter than the Zenith but real advantage for me was the lack of mess from the Atom. The Zenith had clumps which would tend to roll off the portafilter towards the end of the grind, the Atom has clumps but they are SO much smaller and far fewer of them.

The time spent at Bella with Claudette and David learning how to dial in the grinder was invaluable and saved a lot of coffee. Had the new grinder giving 30 second pours within 5 shots of getting it home.

Have now tried 2 different beans and I can't believe the difference in taste between them, on the old Delonghi it really didn't matter which beans you used, you could tell a bit of difference between the levels of roast but that was it. This is amazing!

Looking forward to opening the next bag!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Nice setup


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