# No taste difference conical & flat?



## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Interesting slide at the Nordic barista cup.










Discuss?


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## ziobeege_72 (May 6, 2013)

There is probably an element of truth in that. A well prepared shot on a flat using a coffee that has a bit less acidity then yes, I can believe the taste differences would be minute. I think people buy conicals not just for the perceived taste differences (whether real or fiction) but also for shot consistency and ease of dialing in. The conicals in this regards have a more definitive edge.


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

Interested to hear what others think on this. Can only speak from own experience. In the last year I've owned a Vario, a Caimano and now a Pharos. I was a little bit disappointed switching from the Vario to the Caimano because although I could feel that the grounds were cooler and fluffier my coffee didn't taste any better. Switching from flat to conical though with the Pharos has been a big improvement. I can distinguish between flavours much more easily than before and even watching the extractions they are noticeably more even.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To some degree , does it not depend on the machines you are putting your shots through. Something like a lever defines tastes I haven't had before from an e61. I consider myself to have a fairly undefined pallette. There was a similar long ranging debate about this on HB , with diagrams the lot . I haven't tasted enough similar shots side by side from big flats and conicals to offer a personal opinion though .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, when my K10 turns up, I will be able to benchmark that against the Mythos. oif course, my palate is a bit on the dead side!...but, anyone wanting to visit Newcastle is more than welcome. Perhaps Glenn could have a chat with Claudette and see if it is possible to arrange a kind of shoot off between these two at the Forum day?


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## lukeap69 (Apr 23, 2013)

Reading with interest... K10 and the mythos are my top choices once I decided to upgrade (or add to) my grinder which is NS MDX.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Well, when my K10 turns up, I will be able to benchmark that against the Mythos. oif course, my palate is a bit on the dead side!...but, anyone wanting to visit Newcastle is more than welcome. Perhaps Glenn could have a chat with Claudette and see if it is possible to arrange a kind of shoot off between these two at the Forum day?


That's a good idea , they stock both. Reading other threads the theory is one brings out chocolate notes better , the other bright notes ? So again might be affected by the types of beans we use.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

A question that is raised in my mind, is how do you meaningfully test this?

Geordie, is there any more context regarding this slide?

Do different grinders perform differently? Of course, but how to you test flat v conical in the same grinder (or ideally 2 identical, calibrated, grinders with burrs being the only difference)? In many fields, people are quick to claim fields or aspects where there "is no difference". Usually, by the time you have accumulated all the parties & factors quoted as making "no difference" it quickly becomes impossible for ANY change to make any difference ;-)

"No difference" is no difference...some difference, even a tiny difference is difference...add up a few tiny differences and you get a significant difference. Add up a hundred no differences and you still have "no difference".

If you made 164 coffees on the same gear, I'd expect "some" differences.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> A question that is raised in my mind, is how do you meaningfully test this?
> 
> Geordie, is there any more context regarding this slide?
> 
> ...


I agree to some degree, finite changes in all variables can effect Taste and its very difficult to control all of them at the same time . I'd still like to see the machines performing side by side though. I also think you should say differences more in one post


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Well, when my K10 turns up, I will be able to benchmark that against the Mythos. oif course, my palate is a bit on the dead side!...but, anyone wanting to visit Newcastle is more than welcome. Perhaps Glenn could have a chat with Claudette and see if it is possible to arrange a kind of shoot off between these two at the Forum day?


If you're wanting to sell the mythos then let me know, also my next machine however far down the line will probably be a lever following my research after the other evening.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

These pictures are from cosimo from simonelli


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Geordie, you are welcome. I hope to have the two machines side by side. i am a simple man! I intend to do my own tests purely on my own skills, using the same bean and whenever I pull a shot on one I will also pull the same shot on the other.

I love my Mythos and would be very sorry to see it go, but as I am sure many will agree, in a domestic environment a single commercial can be overkill, but having two is plain daft!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I agree to some degree, finite changes in all variables can effect Taste and its very difficult to control all of them at the same time . I'd still like to see the machines performing side by side though. I also think you should say differences more in one post


Nah, it wouldn't have made any difference...


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## ziobeege_72 (May 6, 2013)

It looks like the conclusion made on this presentation was based around a drip extraction method (ie filter coffee) rather than espresso. Still interesting, but perhaps a little less so.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

"There is a taste difference between flat and conical burrs-but it's soo small it's hard to taste blind" - Francisca Listov-Saabye


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