# Sage Smart Grinder Pro and the Eureka Mignon



## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

So i picked up a brand new Smart Grinder on here a while back, its fine, works well, looks good and produces espresso grinds. However I did jump into this purchase and whilst it works well I find myself looking at the for sale section at Mignon's and I keep considering swapping out my Smart Grinder.

I know most people who have tried both seem to prefer the Mignon but is there much difference? Will I see/taste much of a difference, if any? If its not much of an upgrade I might just keep the Smart Grinder throughout its warranty and then look to upgrade to something much better.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

I've had both Kyle. Started off with the Sage and whilst it ground absolutely fine, my fear was that it was never going to last, too many electronics. The Mignon is far easier to use. Quicker to dial in, a lot more friendly with the kitchen police and yes, there is a big difference in the taste of the coffee and grinds finer I find. I don't use the timer element on mine, just on demand. BB seem to be the best around for price etc, and give a 3 yr warranty and free burrs. They even threw in a free bag of coffee which was a nice touch. I'd recommend the Mignon above the Sage any day of the week.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm pretty much in the same boat though I will be keeping mine for the duration of the warranty period whilst saving up for a substantial and worthy upgrade.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I would stretch the budget a little further to make the upgrade more worthwhile IMO


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> I would stretch the budget a little further to make the upgrade more worthwhile IMO


Definitely this. Also unless you are restricted by kitchen space a Mignon is a serious compromise vs. a second hand Mazzer or similar for the price.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

I'm waiting for the reviews on the settee 270w. Looks like a good bit of kit for not a lot of outlay.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

risky said:


> Also unless you are restricted by kitchen space a Mignon is a serious compromise vs. a second hand Mazzer or similar for the price.


Have you owned both machines ? probably

What about the fact the mignon is doserless, its retention is much less. Its prettier.

Price new ?

I dispute what you are saying that the mignon is a serious compromise.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

IMHO The Mignon is better grinder than the Sage. But I have to agree that used Mazzer SJ or Major is a much bigger jump "in the cup". Valid point that the Mignon does look cool.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I dispute what you are saying that the mignon is a serious compromise.


Whatever you say, whatever you compare it to, the Mignon is a compromise when making espresso. I'm with the vote up crowd, go for a used Mazzer or something like that, you'll thank yourself for it in the long-run.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Looks like there is an SJ in the for sale area of the forum.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Have you owned both machines ? probably
> 
> What about the fact the mignon is doserless, its retention is much less. Its prettier.
> 
> ...


Doserless: only an advantage if you need on demand.

Retention: less than what? The Mazzer? A Mazzer with a lens hood retains less than 0.1g.

Prettier: Subjective.

Price new: I don't see how that's even relevant. A second hand Mazzer offers exceptional value for money as you can often get them for the same price or even less than a Mignon.

As @Xpenno said, the Mignon is a compromise. No two ways about it. Even an SJ is a commercial grinder. Totally different league. I can't see why anyone would choose a Mignon over a Mazzer unless they absolutely cannot fit a Mazzer on the worktop.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> What about the fact the mignon is doserless, its retention is much less. Its prettier.
> 
> Price new ?
> 
> I dispute what you are saying that the mignon is a serious compromise.


A doser would probably be a big improvement for a mignon as it would help with the massive clumps.

Retention on the mignons I've used was pretty big, never test Sage but MAzzer can easily single dose with minimal fuss.

Don't look at the price new, you can get a new mignon for £200 or whatever but you can get an £500 new SJ secondhand for £200. Surely that's a better deal???


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks for the comments so far. I think I will hang on for now then and eventually upgrade to something better. As for the mazza, whilst I appreciate they are much better I also think they are ugly and my machines have to look good too. I will persevere with the sage for now.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@KyleT

While I'm not in a position to answer your original question, I'm currently considering the same options - although currently have neither.

Are you happy with how the SGP is performing at the moment, or are you finding issues that you're hoping an upgrade would sort?

I'm not in a position to find space for a Mazzer it seems, so the two you're looking at are my likely options (i'm probably going to go for a Sage machine too)


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

@adz313, It works perfectly well, it matches my Sage DTP which is nice and it doesn't do anything badly and also fits on my worktop well. I just feel I rushed into buying it and I should of maybe looked around some more at the time.

when are you thinking of buying? Because knowing how I am, even though I have just said I will stick with the grinder, if I see something good on the for sale I may well end up biting and put my sage on there for sale.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

risky said:


> Doserless: only an advantage if you need on demand.
> 
> Price new: I don't see how that's even relevant.





Xpenno said:


> A doser would probably be a big improvement for a mignon as it would help with the massive clumps.
> 
> Don't look at the price new


Who, for a home use scenario chooses a dosered machine over a doserless version of the same machine if it is available?

The mignon can be bought with a doser fitted. When was the last time someone bought one of those !

And as for price, price new is relevant. You are comparing 2 grinders, one costs twice as much new as the other.

the superjolly may be a better machine, but the Mignon is not a serious compromise


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> the superjolly may be a better machine, but the Mignon is not a serious compromise


Yes, it is. Have you even compared the taste of them in the cup? I.e where it matters.

Anyway I gather this is an entirely futile argument. I've said my piece and the OP has decided to hold out for something better.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Who, for a home use scenario chooses a dosered machine over a doserless version of the same machine if it is available?
> 
> The mignon can be bought with a doser fitted. When was the last time someone bought one of those !
> 
> ...


I said a doser would probably help with the massive clumps created by the mignon, I stand by that statement and believe that, even for home users, that a doser on a mignon would be an improvement.

My point is this

Scenario 1 - You buy a new mignon for £200, it's nice and shiny because it's new yet you still have a sad face because it's not a great grinder for espresso









Scenario 2 - You buy a used SJ for £200, it's not as shiny although it works perfectly as they are built for commercial environments, you have a happy face as your espresso tastes nice and that was the point of buying the grinder in the first place









At the price point you can do much much much better than a mignon and it will compromise the quality of espresso that you can make.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

risky said:


> Yes, it is. Have you even compared the taste of them in the cup? I.e where it matters.


That may be all that matters to you and many others on here.

But for some, me included, the ugly utilitarian looks of the mazzer rule it out.

I own a Mignon and very much like the espresso I make with it and have a happy face when I drink the coffee and when I see it there in the corner looking all pretty


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Kyle T said:


> @adz313, It works perfectly well, it matches my Sage DTP which is nice and it doesn't do anything badly and also fits on my worktop well. I just feel I rushed into buying it and I should of maybe looked around some more at the time.
> 
> when are you thinking of buying? Because knowing how I am, even though I have just said I will stick with the grinder, if I see something good on the for sale I may well end up biting and put my sage on there for sale.


Thanks! Useful to know. As you say, part of the appeal is the match to the DTP.

I'm not in any immediate rush (I'm yet to actually see the machine or grinder in the flesh, which could change everything!) but will keep an eye out on the sales.

However, for your purposes - don't take the hit on something else purely because there is someone potentially interested in your current grinder - as I say, I'm not in any rush, and my ultimate decision on machine might change (as yours seems to be for the grinder!!)


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

adz313 said:


> Thanks! Useful to know. As you say, part of the appeal is the match to the DTP.
> 
> I'm not in any immediate rush (I'm yet to actually see the machine or grinder in the flesh, which could change everything!) but will keep an eye out on the sales.
> 
> However, for your purposes - don't take the hit on something else purely because there is someone potentially interested in your current grinder - as I say, I'm not in any rush, and my ultimate decision on machine might change (as yours seems to be for the grinder!!)


haha don't worry, I'm not that daft. I just meant keep a look out on the forums just in case you was looking for one in the near future.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

I have a Mignon matched to a DTP.

I considered the Sage grinder but went for the Mignon as the general view it was better than the Sage.

I also looked at some of the 'smaller' Mazzers because again, they are considered another step up from the Mignon.

Despite being close in price, even the smallest Mazzer like the SJ or the Mini Timer are just too big for my kitchen.

My kitchen isn't small but after you have a toaster, blender, coffee machine and grinder on the worktops, any space is at a premium. after all, I am not running a coffee shop.

In my opinion, and to keep the wife on side, I think the Mignon is a very good grinder option, maybe a compromise but a happy compromise.


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

Seattle coffee gear just posted a video review on their YouTube page that may be of interest as its the mignon vs the sette 270


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

Spy said:


> I have a Mignon matched to a DTP.
> 
> I considered the Sage grinder but went for the Mignon as the general view it was better than the Sage.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a good match - I'm conscious that I'm not in a position to be spending vast sums, nor is it worthwhile at this stage (I'm starting from fresh) in committing vast sums if I decide I don't have the long-term desire to pursue it.

I realise this means upgraditus will hit a year down the line - but it seems to regardless!

@Kyle T - you might have some competition on a Mignon at this rate...


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

James811 said:


> Seattle coffee gear just posted a video review on their YouTube page that may be of interest as its the mignon vs the sette 270


Wow, just watched the video, that Sette 270 looks great. Will be interesting to hear from people on here how it performs when it eventually comes out. They didn't mention in the video which was overall better but it did seem to be the Sette. If it turns out the Sette is much better than a Mignon I might be saving for a Sette!!


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

I think they look great


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Not badly priced either. Fingers crossed they are great!


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## Dan430 (Apr 29, 2016)

Xpenno said:


> I said a doser would probably help with the massive clumps created by the mignon, I stand by that statement and believe that, even for home users, that a doser on a mignon would be an improvement.
> 
> My point is this
> 
> ...


i would go for used SJ anytime!! reason being it will be consistent and ofcoz the burrs are already well seasoned which give consistency grinds! (From a home user perspective) else new 64mm burrs heck i don't know how long i would take to season the burrs!

But ofcoz all these said its a matter of footprint and looks in your kitchen!!

and yes the sette is attractive and damn its as fast as my 64mm!! hahaha

i asked SCG before on the sette and they mention they managed to "choke" the rocket!! Well IDK but its kinda impressive!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Choking a machine tells you nothing about the quality of grind a grinder produces ...

You can choke a machine by over dosing for example

It tells you nothing about how consistent the grind is , just that the water cant get through it,

Same as A USA company used it with a slayer and couldn't get 40-50 second shots using a sette for most people this means nothing ( would you pair a slayer with a settee ? )


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

There's a review floating around on home barista where they ran a taste test on the 270w against the k30. If I remember correctly the k30 just edged it by 7 cups to 5. Considering the price difference the 270 looks likes it's going to be a worthy upgrade for not a lot ££


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## Dan430 (Apr 29, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Choking a machine tells you nothing about the quality of grind a grinder produces ...
> 
> You can choke a machine by over dosing for example
> 
> ...


Fair enough!! if they don't know what they are doing!! but it still impress me coz other barratza can't do that!! thats all I'm saying it a good improvement!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Craig-R872 said:


> There's a review floating around on home barista where they ran a taste test on the 270w against the k30. If I remember correctly the k30 just edged it by 7 cups to 5. Considering the price difference the 270 looks likes it's going to be a worthy upgrade for not a lot ££


The guy from coffeegeek also says it it better than his k10 ..... but i will take this with a pinch of salt until i get to try one


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

@Mrboots2u do you get machine to review? Just curious when you might try one. Interested to see thoughts of the experienced people on here.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

Well so far I am getting very good and repeatable results withy SGP. Have tried coffees from Rave and Casa espresso. All have dialled in quickly and produce lovely espresso even the Mrs is saying I can taste the caramel, fudge etc.. Can't complain for a freebie! Would be really interesting if I could do a side by side comparison to see/taste what if any difference would be.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Kyle T said:


> @Mrboots2u do you get machine to review? Just curious when you might try one. Interested to see thoughts of the experienced people on here.


Nope not got one sorry ....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Kyle T said:


> @Mrboots2u do you get machine to review? Just curious when you might try one. Interested to see thoughts of the experienced people on here.


The forum will get one in a a month or so, kindly supplied by coffee omega


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

The Sette looks great - but I'm not sure smaller and faster burrs are the way forward? Wouldn't this generate massive amounts of heat? I'll admit I'm fairly new to this game - but I thought climbing the ladder got you larger, slower burrs to create less heat?

As for the SJ vs Mignon debate... I've moved from the Mignon to the SJ and yes - there's a slight difference in the cup, but I've found it much worse retention wise (I haven't done ALL mods - but I have done the lens filter mod - and I get at least 1g retention, not 0.1g) and so far it's been less predictable and more faff (to minimise retention I have to brush around the doser and throat after/before every use). It may be that the one I have isn't great - but that's where the price difference is important. £200ish gets you a Mignon with at least 2 years warranty, or an SJ that will 'probably' be fine. I've since spend around £75 modding the SJ (and adding new burrs - seasoning etc) and I don't have any of the joy I got from the Mignon.

Oh - apart from thwacking. I love the thwacking.

The Mignon clump debate will rage on - but with the Mignon I'd break up the clumps with a needle or something, which seems to have given me much better distribution than I'm getting with the doser from the SJ. I got virtually zero spritzing with the Mignon, I get loads with the SJ.

I'm seeking help. Glenn is round on Saturday to no doubt show and tell me that I'm doing it all wrong and that the SJ is a million times better - so I may regret these words and look like a total dick (but hey, I'm all about the honesty) and right now, I miss the Mignon every day.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Do the clean sweep mod and cut the bottom off a bottle. It takes 5 minutes and the doser will be totally clear afterwards.

Possible new burrs that haven't settled in are causing some of the grief but I'm not sure how you can spend £75 modding the SJ? Most of the mods are free.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

The way I see the sette and correct me if I am wrong is that it is not designed to be a commercial grinder for a commercial environment so heat build up won't be much of an issue. The only grinders we have available that are an upgrade to the lower end are primarily a commercial machine designed to be grinding kilos a day. From what I've seen and read about the sette it seems to have solved a lot of the issues with using commercial grinders for home use. I suppose until these grinders are available for us to buy and use we can only speculate about its performance.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

UncleJake said:


> As for the SJ vs Mignon debate... I've moved from the Mignon to the SJ and yes - there's a slight difference in the cup, but I've found it much worse retention wise (I haven't done ALL mods - but I have done the lens filter mod - and I get at least 1g retention, not 0.1g) and so far it's been less predictable and more faff (to minimise retention I have to brush around the doser and throat after/before every use). It may be that the one I have isn't great - but that's where the price difference is important. £200ish gets you a Mignon with at least 2 years warranty, or an SJ that will 'probably' be fine. I've since spend around £75 modding the SJ (and adding new burrs - seasoning etc) and I don't have any of the joy I got from the Mignon.
> 
> Oh - apart from thwacking. I love the thwacking.
> 
> ...


Thanks for having the guts to post something that goes against the conventional wisdom a little bit. Your direct experience is pretty valuable.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It does take some getting used to moving from a Mignon to an SJ. I have to say it does make a massive difference. Glenn will make a big improvement too.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> The forum will get one in a a month or so, kindly supplied by coffee omega


I will be very curious to know if the smaller 54mm portafilter of the Sage DTP will work with it. Judging by a few videos the speed and the amount of coffee coming from the grinder it seems you would lose a lot with the 54mm portafilter, plus i doubt it would sit well on the portafilter holder, if at all.


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

Craig-R872 said:


> The way I see the sette and correct me if I am wrong is that it is not designed to be a commercial grinder for a commercial environment so heat build up won't be much of an issue. The only grinders we have available that are an upgrade to the lower end are primarily a commercial machine designed to be grinding kilos a day. From what I've seen and read about the sette it seems to have solved a lot of the issues with using commercial grinders for home use. I suppose until these grinders are available for us to buy and use we can only speculate about its performance.


Of course - totally agree that we can't judge these machines until they can be tried - and I'm excited if they have indeed solved those issues. I'm merely asking a question to those more knowledgeable than me that seemed relevant.. It's often said that one of the ways the SJ is better than than the Mignon is its bigger burrs. Not due to heat build up through the day in a commercial setting but for taste in the cup reasons. During the grind the friction from smaller burrs at faster speeds essentially cooks or even burns the beans. It's something I've read - I'm happy to be corrected.


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

risky said:


> Do the clean sweep mod and cut the bottom off a bottle. It takes 5 minutes and the doser will be totally clear afterwards.
> 
> Possible new burrs that haven't settled in are causing some of the grief but I'm not sure how you can spend £75 modding the SJ? Most of the mods are free.


Clean sweep next on the list - and have a cocktail shaker that just arrived from ebay - to stop all the grinds getting caught on the central screw of the doser.

Yes - that's what I'm hoping - that the new burrs are causing the unpredictability - was hoping though that 2kg would be enough, I'm up to about 3.

I was rounding up the cost in my head - I may be totally out:

Lens hood - £4

Cocktail shaker = £8

Burrs - £36

Gauge - £11

Lens hood lid and portafilter funnel: £19

That's £78 - not a bad guess - and then the beans to season (most of which I got as stales free from the Foundry because they are ace).


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## Dan430 (Apr 29, 2016)

UncleJake said:


> The Sette looks great - but I'm not sure smaller and faster burrs are the way forward? Wouldn't this generate massive amounts of heat? I'll admit I'm fairly new to this game - but I thought climbing the ladder got you larger, slower burrs to create less heat?
> 
> As for the SJ vs Mignon debate... I've moved from the Mignon to the SJ and yes - there's a slight difference in the cup, but I've found it much worse retention wise (I haven't done ALL mods - but I have done the lens filter mod - and I get at least 1g retention, not 0.1g) and so far it's been less predictable and more faff (to minimise retention I have to brush around the doser and throat after/before every use). It may be that the one I have isn't great - but that's where the price difference is important. £200ish gets you a Mignon with at least 2 years warranty, or an SJ that will 'probably' be fine. I've since spend around £75 modding the SJ (and adding new burrs - seasoning etc) and I don't have any of the joy I got from the Mignon.
> 
> ...


Yup thats what i thought so too for the sette! but like what @craig said its not made for commercial and probably light home user. and i don't know a 5 sec grind time for double is gonna generate any heat quick enough to burn the coffee. thats why i'm impressed! and the rotation of outer burrs is an eye opener!! its like the last time the la cimbali max grinder the one with the conicle and flat burrs in one!

and a very honest opinion on the SJ!! thats one reason why i stay away from a doser!! but then again its probably the burrs is not well seasoned enough?


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

I don't know enough to comment on the heat generated but this quick a grind can it really generate that much? Doesn't the Mythos the other fast grinder pre heat the beans?

Reading the sette Facebook page it seems as though the motor has a life span of 150hrs....

"The Motor of the Sette is rated for 150 hours. A double shot of espresso (18gr) takes about 5 seconds of grind time. If you make 10 double espressos per day, the grinder will last 24 YEARS."


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Craig-R872 said:


> Doesn't the Mythos the other fast grinder pre heat the beans?


No, it attempts to keep the burrs at a stable temperature.


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

urbanbumpkin said:


> It does take some getting used to moving from a Mignon to an SJ. I have to say it does make a massive difference. Glenn will make a big improvement too.


 @Glenn did indeed make a big improvement - who'd have thought there would be a precise technique for the way you squash the lens hood for much better throat clearing? Was great having him over - a really good reminder that numbers (recipes etc) are a just tool to get us into the ball-park, then the real fun starts - chasing the flavours. I think I can still taste that wonderfully chewy espresso from Saturday morning. Highly recommended.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

UncleJake said:


> @Glenn did indeed make a big improvement - who'd have thought there would be a precise technique for the way you squash the lens hood for much better throat clearing? Was great having him over - a really good reminder that numbers (recipes etc) are a just tool to get us into the ball-park, then the real fun starts - chasing the flavours. I think I can still taste that wonderfully chewy espresso from Saturday morning. Highly recommended.


What's your retention like now? Mine is practically 0 (occasionally around 0.1g, usually the grind after I've hoovered it)

You can also buy a cocktail shaker in poundland.... so that's less money on mods!


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

Missy said:


> What's your retention like now? Mine is practically 0 (occasionally around 0.1g, usually the grind after I've hoovered it)
> 
> You can also buy a cocktail shaker in poundland.... so that's less money on mods!


HOOVERED IT!?

Not sure how to make the cocktail shaker fit. Looks kinda good just sat on the side next to the SJ though - like I'm just about to break out the espresso martinis.

Mostly getting 0.4/5 I guess. Then once in a while I'll get out more than I put in.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

UncleJake said:


> HOOVERED IT!?
> 
> Not sure how to make the cocktail shaker fit. Looks kinda good just sat on the side next to the SJ though - like I'm just about to break out the espresso martinis.
> 
> Mostly getting 0.4/5 I guess. Then once in a while I'll get out more than I put in.


Yeah after I've brushed the burrs etc I whack the (clean) Hoover noozler in and in the doser.

Cocktail shaker-

Remove lid from shaker (should be in two parts- leave them together)

Remove lid from doser

Drop shaker lid into doser (well place in carefully)

Put doser lid back on

Simple

You can drill holes and stuff to screw it down, but that seems a bit overkill and crazy to me.


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

Missy said:


> Yeah after I've brushed the burrs etc I whack the (clean) Hoover noozler in and in the doser.
> 
> Cocktail shaker-
> 
> ...


So you just rest it there - and remove it for thwacking? Or how does it stay in place? Mine doesn't - that's why I haven't done it yet - I need to remove top vanes etc to make them flat etc etc. I'm sure it'll be worth it - but I can't help thinking that I'll still need to brush it all out anyway, so why not the top nut bit too?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Thwacking what at stage-what ?









It just sits there.


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

Missy said:


> Thwacking what at stage-what ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. So when it all spins because you've pulled on the paddly-thing (this is what I'm calling 'thwacking') - Your pink thing rattles around?

Oh dear. This has all gone a bit wrong.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

No. Wait. Maybe. Let me check. Not much. It spins with the vanes. Not in any way that causes me any bother.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

UncleJake said:


> Thanks. So when it all spins because you've pulled on the paddly-thing (this is what I'm calling 'thwacking') - Your pink thing rattles around?


Priceless


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