# Machine advice for domestic use



## Flamingo (Sep 11, 2019)

Hi everyone,

I have been a coffee enthusiast for a long time with a very basic setup at home that consists of a bodum grinder and a v60 and I have decided to take my passion to the next level.

What I am looking to achieve is to make good quality espressos at home which will allow me to have americanos, flat whites & cappuccinos rather than just filter coffee. Depending on how I find the process I'll decide if this is something I want to invest more time into.

Based on the useful information and guides in this forum I understand that I will need to get an entry-level espresso machine and a decent grinder.

For the espresso machine I am in between the Gaggia classic and the rancilio silvia which seem to retail at about £400.

Which one of the two would you recommend?

For the Gaggia classic, is it worth splurging on the latest 2019 model or should I just go for the previous model that retails for half the price? It seems that the model before that was better made but you can't buy it new and not sure if I trust myself to find a good quality 2nd hand one.

Open to other suggestions for espresso machines of course.

What would you recommend in terms of grinders? Someone in this forum recommended Iberital MC2 as a good entry-level one. A knowledgeable friend also recommended the silvia rocky.

Keen to stay under £500 if possible.

Very grateful for any advice and guidance as I have to admit I am very new to this!


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Personally I'd have a very serious think about buying a secondhand setup. You can get good quality used items on this forum or set up some searches on eBay for items and be patient. Your money will go further and when you inevitably want to upgrade if you buy right you will get your money back.

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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Welcome. I started where you are about five years ago. A second hand Classic will be fine, especially if you buy it from a Forum member (which is what I did) and they are relatively easy to repair if anything does go wrong (often the solenoid). I'm not technically minded yet I managed to fix this - and there is an abundance of Forum help. I would also aim for a Mignon - I haven't used the MC2 but my impression is the Mignon offers more and it's what I got to go with my Classic. I hope this helps.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Whatever you do, I wouldn't buy the previous (2015-2018) model of Classic - it's just a bodge job in a Classic case.

The current Classic is bonkers expensive - but great if you have deep pockets!

The usual rule with Classics is that the older ones are better... so I'd look for either a well looked after pre 2006 "pre-Philips" model, which has the better solenoid valve - or a good pre 2015 one.

They're easily maintained and easily repaired with all parts readily available should anything happen - so 2nd hand is a great option.

Oh, you can mod them quite easily and massively improve them as well!

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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Nice one just come up in the for sale section. £130. Makes no sense buying new for £400.

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hello and welcome 

To view the for sale section you need to get your post count up a bit, you will be glad you did as there is likely to be something that may interest you. If you don't fancy second hand then keep reading round the forum and gather as much info as you can before diving in.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Also if you buy a pre-2015 classic you'll have much more room in the budget for a better grinder


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## Alan Kilroy (Dec 22, 2017)

I had and recently sold the Gaggia Classic 2015-2018 dreaded Romanian build machine. Never had an issue with it. Performed as advertised. Actually, if it didn't sell for my advertised price I would have kept it as a back up.

I didn't budge on price and it sold quick enough.

Nothing wrong with that era machine if looked after and serviced/cleaned.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Alan Kilroy said:


> I had and recently sold the Gaggia Classic 2015-2018 dreaded Romanian build machine. Never had an issue with it. Performed as advertised. Actually, if it didn't sell for my advertised price I would have kept it as a back up.
> I didn't budge on price and it sold quick enough.
> Nothing wrong with that era machine if looked after and serviced/cleaned.


It'll make espresso...

It shouldn't really be called a Classic - and all other model year Classics are better in many regards.

It's not where it's built that's the issue, it's the components and design.

IMHO

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## Alan Kilroy (Dec 22, 2017)

That was the only model I used........suppose I cannot compare but it was fine for me as a beginner machine. Made decent espresso but not / never too hot.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Just buy the one that@coffeechap has just listed in the For Sale section for £130

It looks stunning and immaculate and is fantastic for the price.

Be quick, it won't hang around!

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## LJA (Sep 11, 2019)

I'm in the same boat as you! Looking at options now, there's so many to choose from I'll be following this carefully!

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## Flamingo (Sep 11, 2019)

Thanks to everyone for the helpful advice.

Didn't realise there was such a good variety of second-hand machines in this forum so will definitely consider this option.

What are your views on grinders? So far my only recommendations is @Phil104's who suggested a Mignon.


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## Flamingo (Sep 11, 2019)

LJA said:


> I'm in the same boat as you! Looking at options now, there's so many to choose from I'll be following this carefully!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Nice to see I am not alone and welcome!

Let me know once you reach your own conclusion


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

I'd stay away from the Rocky if you can. I started with a Rocky and quickly realised its limitations.

It's not a dreadful place to start but you can do far better.

A second-hand Super Jolly would be great place to start!


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## Flamingo (Sep 11, 2019)

Gavin said:


> I'd stay away from the Rocky if you can. I started with a Rocky and quickly realised its limitations.
> 
> It's not a dreadful place to start but you can do far better.
> 
> A second-hand Super Jolly would be great place to start!


 Thanks @Gavin for the input.

I'm guessing the SJ would do a good job at both grinding beans for an espresso & filter?


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## Flamingo (Sep 11, 2019)

MrShades said:


> Whatever you do, I wouldn't buy the previous (2015-2018) model of Classic - it's just a bodge job in a Classic case.
> 
> The current Classic is bonkers expensive - but great if you have deep pockets!
> 
> ...


 Thanks @MrShades that's super helpful!

Does this listing qualify as a good pre-2015 model? Appreciate your expertise on this.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/47869-refurbed-gaggia-classic-w-silvia-steam-wand/?do=embed


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## LJA (Sep 11, 2019)

Flamingo said:


> Nice to see I am not alone and welcome!
> Let me know once you reach your own conclusion


Just seen your post about the Classic! Apologies! It was a toss up between Coffeechaps or The one at £160! Both look great machines. Now we need to consider Grinders!

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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

LJA said:


> Just seen your post about the Classic! Apologies! It was a toss up between Coffeechaps or The one at £160! Both look great machines. Now we need to consider Grinders!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Both look like crackers! Up to you which you go for... or whichever is left if you take your time deciding.

Both@hasi and@coffeechap are very well respected members of CFUK who know their onions - and you should have no problem at all with a machine from either of them, and both machines look spotless and as good as new. They just need a PID to make them perfect ;-)

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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Grinders are more important than the espresso machine in many ways - a great grinder with a Classic will give some great coffee - whereas a rubbish grinder with ANY espresso machine will give awful coffee.

Spend whatever you can on the grinder, and use the change from your budget for the Classic.... don't skimp, your tastebuds will thank you.

Mazzer SJ with 64mm flat burrs should be a basic starting point - bigger and better if you can afford it, but if you buy smaller/cheaper you'll be upgrading soon. Should be able to get a good one for £200 easily. Mod it for single dosing, don't use the doser.

On-demand and single dosing grinders are very popular these days - but usually, for even a used one, you're looking at £400-£1000

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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MrShades said:


> Grinders are more important than the espresso machine in many ways - a great grinder with a Classic will give some great coffee - whereas a rubbish grinder with ANY espresso machine will give awful coffee.
> 
> Spend whatever you can on the grinder, and use the change from your budget for the Classic.... don't skimp, your tastebuds will thank you.
> 
> ...


I'd also have a Mazzer Mini B lying around  there's images in my valuation thread...!


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Hasi said:


> I'd also have a Mazzer Mini B lying around
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Put it up in For Sale section now... just sayin'!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Flamingo said:


> I'm guessing the SJ would do a good job at both grinding beans for an espresso & filter?


I'd recommend not trying to use an espresso grinder for filter (especially a Mazzer as the adjustment mech might drive you nuts going round and round between espresso and filter, more so than other grinders). You'll waste a ton of coffee dialing in back and forth. I used to have a Mazzer mini and the dreaded Iberital MC2. Avoid the iberital. Mini, Super Jolly or Mignon are good places to start, but use a hand grinder or whatever you currently use for filter. (for example I have a ceado e37s for espresso and an Aergrind for aeropress or cold brew.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## dovy (Oct 6, 2018)

Flamingo said:


> Thanks @Gavin for the input.
> 
> I'm guessing the SJ would do a good job at both grinding beans for an espresso & filter?


 I'll put my two pennies in too, separate grinders for different uses is a way to go. I tried using one for both filter and espressos but that meant I couldn't achieve any consistency in neither of drinks.


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## Flamingo (Sep 11, 2019)

Thanks all for you advice.

I have went for the Gaggia classic + Niche Zero, both bough from @Hasi

Will report back once I have made my first couple espressos!

Next item on the list is to learn how to pull a proper espresso 

On a related point, do I need to get a coffee grind bin or should I not bother? Is there anything else obvious that I might be missing to complete my home set-up?


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

I would definitely get a knock box. The grindstein one is cheap and effective.

Personally I feel like grinds from the niche need a good stir either in the cup or portafilter. Search for WDT on here or distribution tool to get an idea of the different options.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Fez said:


> Personally I feel like grinds from the niche need a good stir either in the cup or portafilter. Search for WDT on here or distribution tool to get an idea of the different options.


 +1

It also releases the static and makes it far easier to dump into the portafilter.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

You're getting machine, grinder, tamper, blind filter, group brush and coffee in one go. That should cover the essentials and will get you started 

You wanna be looking into a cheap set of scales (Amazon, 10 quid, 0.1 or 0.01g resolution), maybe a tamping mat/stand or similar depending on worktop, a milk jug to steam and pour (also around a tenner at Amazon) and a little knock box if you don't want to empty basket straight into organic bin 

Keep the Niche between mark 17 and 22, your dose at around 15-16g to begin with. Output may be between 30 and 35g in a reasonable time frame (up to, say, 45 seconds). Not set in stone, but a little handle to hold onto while you're starting out!

You'll find lots of info re dialling in and preparation on here and on YouTube, feel free to ask us for advice  of course.
Looking forward to reading how you get on!

But for now, enjoy the wait


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Fez said:


> I would definitely get a knock box. The grindstein one is cheap and effective.
> Personally I feel like grinds from the niche need a good stir either in the cup or portafilter. Search for WDT on here or distribution tool to get an idea of the different options.


@Fez for second level support 

grind cup fits in Gaggia (standard 58) basket, so putting basket on top, turn around while shaking and gently knock on worktop to make grinds settle in basket should do the trick for now I guess


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Flamingo said:


> Thanks all for you advice.
> I have went for the Gaggia classic + Niche Zero, both bough from @Hasi
> Will report back once I have made my first couple espressos!
> Next item on the list is to learn how to pull a proper espresso
> On a related point, do I need to get a coffee grind bin or should I not bother? Is there anything else obvious that I might be missing to complete my home set-up?


Should be a great pairing & the niche is about the cheapest electric grinder for switching between brew methods with ease.
There are plenty of mods you can do to the classic if you have a mind to (most are listed in thegaggia section somewhere), but fitting a PIDwll see the greatest improvement by far.
Would definitely suggest a knockbox, I used to just use a Tupperware pot but having a bar to knock onto is so much easier. You'll be wanting some 0.1g scales too.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Use filtered or bottled water (Volvic, Lockhills, Ashbeck etc) unless your tap water is soft. You can check this with your local water company website.


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## Andori (Sep 10, 2019)

Flamingo said:


> Thanks all for you advice.
> 
> I have went for the Gaggia classic + Niche Zero, both bough from @Hasi
> 
> ...


 The same setup I'm part way to. I got a 2nd hand Classic to replace my defunct Dualit, and want to get a Niche (I'm currently using pre-ground from a local roaster as I don't have a grinder?) I may well have jumped on Hasi's Niche if I'd spotted it in time. I need to strip my Classic and give it a service. I've got the parts, just need to get round to doing it.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Do you have cups? It's always good to have the right size for the drink you prefer, in my view 

Popular makes include Inker, Acme, Loveramics etc and they come in espresso, flat white, cappuccino etc sizes.


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## Junglebert (Jan 7, 2019)

MildredM said:


> Do you have cups? It's always good to have the right size for the drink you prefer, in my view
> 
> Popular makes include Inker, Acme, Loveramics etc and they come in espresso, flat white, cappuccino etc sizes.


 Great point, my enjoyment of my drinks went through the roof when I got proper espresso cups, I got some ACME ones from eBay for a few quid each.


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## LJA (Sep 11, 2019)

MildredM said:


> Do you have cups? It's always good to have the right size for the drink you prefer, in my view
> 
> Popular makes include Inker, Acme, Loveramics etc and they come in espresso, flat white, cappuccino etc sizes.


 Its odd, I never even thought about what I drank it out of! I'll take a look at a few of these


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Thoughts around cups...

- material: ceramics is widely accepted as the gold standard, however there are other cups around if you prefer: double-walled glass, enamel coated mugs, thermos jugs,...

- wall thickness: in single-walled containers, more pre-heated material keeps your drink warm for longer. Downside being they're more prone to spillage as drops may collect between rim and lip, running down side wall

- right size: different recipes demand different amounts/ratios of content (single, double shot, milk, foam, booze, you name it). Depending on preference, get anything between 150ml and 250ml for a milk based drink, espresso cups for espresso obviously

- geometry: some geometries are better than others to start off pouring latte art. Has to do with turbulence and distribution... a simple bowl shape that is not too narrow or wide will be a safe bet

- colour: despite fitting well into kitchen/coffee corner, think how a beverage will look inside a colourful cup. Usually, they're only coloured on the outside to present your coffee in a neutral and clean way

- storing cups on cup warmer: especially with a small footprint machine like the Gaggia Classic, you may need to figure out a placement layout to pre-heat as many cups as possible without compromising accessibility. Placing them upright should give you more room as they can extend over edges while heating their bases first. However, placing them upside down keeps them clean inside, brings them up to temp quicker but makes for very hot rims.


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