# Silvia - screw touching puck at 14g



## lifes_that_easy (Sep 5, 2020)

I am using an all-stock Silvia v2020, I'm dosing 14g into the double filter, but since the Silvia has a huge screw, it makes an indent in my puck. Is this normal? I'm afraid it makes my shots worse as it might break my puck and cause channeling.

An illustration of my process:


http://imgur.com/94WknIQ


I'm getting 28gs in 25 secs (I've made my grind a bit more course since I made the video above), but there's still that indent and nost of the coffee is coming out of a single sprout...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The indent is a common feature / annoyance. If you look at some previous posts for the Silvia there is a post about changing/ modifying the screw and screen to accept a countersunk screw / bolt.

With regard to the unequal flow from the spout, first check your machine is level front to back and side to side.

It is not uncommon to have an uneven flow, it depends how the liquid flow splits. Just accept it or take the spout off OR get a naked portafilter.

The naked P/F will allow you to check if your puck prep is good / correct, it also allows you to fit a larger cup / mug under.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Can you just switch the screw out for a smaller one with the same threads?

Decrease dose until then 12g maybe.


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

The screw hole won't be causing channeling, the distributor doesn't put any water through the screw obviously, if they protrude or not, water would still be coming from the sides of the screen, As soon as the puck is saturated it will be pushed up and your always going to end up with some indentation unless you get one of these flat screws but you also need a counter sunk distributor and screen. But I am just not convinced this is any issue at all.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

espressoSquirrel said:


> The screw hole won't be causing channeling, the distributor doesn't put any water through the screw obviously, if they protrude or not, water would still be coming from the sides of the screen, As soon as the puck is saturated it will be pushed up and your always going to end up with some indentation unless you get one of these flat screws but you also need a counter sunk distributor and screen. But I am just not convinced this is any issue at all.


 The screw fractures the puck (you can see the crack across the dry puck in the images). The puck expands mainly when the shot is finished and pressure is released, only a little as it is saturated and up to pressure quickly which compresses it.


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## lifes_that_easy (Sep 5, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> The indent is a common feature / annoyance. If you look at some previous posts for the Silvia there is a post about changing/ modifying the screw and screen to accept a countersunk screw / bolt.
> 
> With regard to the unequal flow from the spout, first check your machine is level front to back and side to side.
> 
> ...


 Yeah a naked PF would make me able to check if I'm doing stuff right, but my main reason for wanting to have a good split is so I can split a double with my gf properly  she prefers singles to doubles and making a good shot with a single basket is a pain, so I'd rather split a double while pulling you know. Yeah I could split the coffee once I pulled but then what's the point of the two sprouts you know... Thanks for the tip though!


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

I don't doubt it breaks the clean surface, i really wish it wasn't there, but I have used a silvia for 14 years with a screw sticking into the puck, i have tried under and over dosing into the stock 14-16g basket, an 18g basket and a triple 21g basket, you always get a screw impression at the end, I use a naked portafilter and it does not appear to cause consistent channelling. There are times channelling is a problem, but I just wouldn't look here first, or it would be affecting every single silvia user.

@lifes_that_easy can I ask about your beans, i see a bag in the background but can't tell what it is, is it freshly roasted? Does it taste good? Are you always doing 14g doses?



Rob1 said:


> The puck expands mainly when the shot is finished and pressure is released, only a little as it is saturated and up to pressure quickly which compresses it.


 Yes, sorry you are correct Rob1, I always find the baskets have little to no room on top of the silvia though, after light tamping the screen is touching when i put 18g in an 18g basket.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Just replace the bolt with a lower profile fastening?

Plenty to choose from tbh.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Are you sure it's not the three way solenoid valve sucking the puck up? Do the coin test and see. I doubt the screw causes problems.


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## Jasetaylor (Jul 31, 2020)

Until I get around to machining the dispersal nozzle for a countersunk bolt I use an A4 stainless steel Button head bolt (M5x12) as recommended by forum member Doram. Also fitted with an IMS shower screen and Cafelat gasket.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> Can you just switch the screw out for a smaller one with the same threads?
> 
> Decrease dose until then 12g maybe.


 Possibly as a 'special'. but screw and bolt heads are usually proportionate to shank size.


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

ok, one thing I just came across, maybe the reason for the uneven flow on the between the spouts, it might be the beak!

http://www.pidsilvia.com/beak.htm

to quote pidsilvia



> If you have an uneven split with the original Portafilter double spout, replace the original Portafilter Beak / spout. When you have an uneven split, you will never get it right with the original Silvia beak, it is not your fault. It is not because an uneven tamping, uneven coffee, unleveled machine or other creative reason.


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

When I bought a like-new V1 a handful of years ago I quickly grew tired of the dinky stock 14 gram basket and huge hex head screw (shower screen). I don't care what Rancilio (or any Italian) recommends I like to updose, always have and will. Anytime I tried going much over 14 grams the hex head would dig into the puck and split it, causing channeling. Got decent extractions, but not the mind blowing super intense/thick variety I must have. I bought the Rancilio 18 gram basket and a flush mount screen kit and once dialed in the results improved drastically. I hardly ever have channeling these days and my average dose is 19.2 grams. I dose just to the point that a screen impression is left in the spent puck and find fantastic results in doing so. Some get a bit carried away with having to have _____ of headspace/screen clearance, blah blah blah. I do what works for ME, not what some think is 'conventional wisdom', lmao. I also highly recommend using a silicone group gasket (green Cafelet in my case) as I'm sure over time the stock rubber type will compress and change headspace to some degree. I'm convinced using silicone keeps things very consistent in that respect.


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

I would like to row back on some of my comments from earlier... after swapping my rocky out for a niche... I have noticed 18.6g of coffee in an 18g basket no longer touch the screw head. Honestly I am pretty shocked that the grinds compress so much more, but I can now lock in the basket and remove it with screw doing little more than rubbing the dust on top of the puck, the coffee I am getting out is much better overall, and I am sure much of that is just the niche, but the fact that I am getting less channelling may also be down to lack of the screw impression. So I don't know at all, at some point I will try 14g in the original basket see if it fits too.


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## CoffeeStewieG (Aug 4, 2015)

I've had the V6 Silvia for a month now and have an even bigger "screw dent" in the puck(16g) and agree with other replies it doesn't make any difference to the shot. I used a spirit level to make sure the machine was even and had to put little bit of rubber under the feet to even it out. Pulling evenly. I would look at the tamping, I got a Motta 58.4mm and it made a big difference (a 58.5mm would be even better). With that portafilter I would level the coffee with your finger by carefully spinning the handle as its level to a surface (Could't tell if you do that from the video) Essentially like a distributor. I think this levelling will give you more even coffee in the basket, then better tamp and boom better shot🤞.

Hope this helps

Thanks 
Stu

P.s Can post link to the tamper if you think it helps, got it for £22 delivered I think.


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## phario (May 7, 2017)

CoffeeStewieG said:


> . I used a spirit level to make sure the machine was even and had to put little bit of rubber under the feet to even it out.


 From a fluid mechanical perspective, I don't think gravitational forces (and hence the importance of the machine being level) make a difference on that scale and at the pressures involved. Interesting question that might not be hard to test though, by preparing a number of identical shots and putting your machine at progressively larger tilt angles.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Are you sure it's not the three way solenoid valve sucking the puck up?


 Is this something that happens?

If so, it might make my inspection of the puck for signs of channelling post-shot a bit redundant! I've been experiencing occasional channelling issues and the only obvious disturbances to the puck are around the hex bolt indentation. This has led me to consider the flat shower screen mod but might be pointless if it's just the puck getting sucked up at the end of the shot!

Sometimes the channelling looks like it could have been from the perimeter but not really sure what I can do about that either as I've got a 58.5mm tamper, I don't think I can get any closer to the edge of the basket! That being said, I am still using an awful grinder, so that can't help things...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

newdent said:


> MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure it's not the three way solenoid valve sucking the puck up?
> ...


 It can happen and the puck may stick to the shower screen as a result. A bit more might stop that happening.

The bulk of the grinds expansion is when the water goes in. Providing they can expand the grinder is setting the flow rates. Limit the space for expansion and that will restrict flow rates as well. Something some one might do on purpose with some grinders but too much restriction of this type does have an effect on what comes out. A little doesn't have much effect on grinder setting.

If you look back to the photo's the OP posted and the one showing the used puck you'll notice a mark at the rim from the shower screens rim. I don't know what the screen is like so can't comment but it may mean too much coffee and not enough room for expansion. On the machine I use the shower screen is concave and has a rim. At max load that shows in a used puck and flakes of grinds may be sucked back onto the shower screen by the 3 way action.  On this machine used like this the puck sticks to the shower screen if I get the dose wrong. At lower levels it tends to stay put.

Looking at this area is dead easy. Start low and add 1/2g at a time and see what happens.  Trouble is changes may need retuning. Too low tends to leave rather wet pucks or a film of water on the puck. Some may choose to work like that as the grind will be finer for some ratio or the other.

Serious channelling shows as holes usually around the edge. Something I had long ago that went of it's own accord. Suspect it does with most people as their prep gets more consistent. TBH I think beginners should use KISS and throw in the newer must does to see what effect they have. This means sticking with an approach for some time each time it is changed.

If some one wants to look at uneven flow though the puck it needs a bottomless portafilter and a shot mirror. It shows via different coloured flows from various parts of the bottom of the basket even over the shot time.

Whoops forgot - screw showing - compared with the other factors about the amount of grinds used it doesn't matter a toss.


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## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

I've got a v6, and tend to dose 15g. You get a decent size bolt mark, but I've not had any serious channelling, and I use a bottomless portafilter.

I see a lot of comments concerned about it, but I'm yet to see anything that compels me the issue is anything more than cosmetic.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

If you look at the image attached, you can see the issues I sometimes get, see the two holes near the middle. Note that I'd actually started to tap this puck out, hence the gaps around the edge but then thought it might be a good idea to get a photo.

I also use a bottomless portafilter and notice some jets coming from the the middle initially and then stop but the shot is visibly running a bit fast after that. Unfortunately the next step on my grinder produces a 50 second shot, so I have to work with this. No doubt inconsistent grind is contributing to the channelling but no denying it's consistently in the middle of the puck. I tried updosing by a gram to slow the shot but not sure if the yield is meant to stay the same, so stopped on 38g (19g in).

There was an indentation from the bolt head but I left the portafilter out for a while whilst I was doing other things and the indentation seemed to disappear. The coffee must have carried on expanding or something.


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## dave1138 (Jul 28, 2020)

I have a v3, ims screen, cafelat gasket, lower profile hex screw and generally dose 16g without problems into an 18g VST basket. The puck doesn't touch the screen and don't get channeling if I am careful with prep. I have wondered whether a 15g basket or the IMS version would be better with a lower dose but haven't tried yet. I've not really had much success with the stock baskets but haven't revisited lately.

16g generally was the max I could get in there with my previous grinder before the puck touched the screw. However I also noticed that since using the niche compared to my mahlkonig vario I can push the dose up to 17 or even 18g depending on the coffee but 16g seems to work for most of the coffee use (black cat choc point or their new twilight blend).


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Attached some photos from today. Don't have a photo but put a 10p in the middle of the puck and it was completely squashed in there. Admittedly, the grind is clearly a bit too coarse visibly (and further evident from the shot time of 15sec), so assume it would compress slightly more if ground correctly.

It was also channelling from random places all over the puck today, though I'm happy that my tamp was firm and level (use distribution tool to level before tamping). I'm going to hope that this is just a grinding issue and report back once that is rectified.


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## maac (Oct 1, 2020)

I wanted to know if anyone here knows where I can order the flat screen kit?

I know pidsilvia.com have a kit but not sure how affordable it'll be with the international shipping add on top. But I guess its a last resort maybe.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

maac said:


> I wanted to know if anyone here knows where I can order the flat screen kit?
> I know pidsilvia.com have a kit but not sure how affordable it'll be with the international shipping add on top. But I guess its a last resort maybe.


Did you try contacting Rancilio directly? The new Pro model has a flat screw, the shower I think it's the same as in older models. I installed the IMS shower screen.


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## maac (Oct 1, 2020)

profesor_historia said:


> maac said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted to know if anyone here knows where I can order the flat screen kit?
> ...


 I haven't thought about contacting Rancilio. I shall try! In the mean time I'll be adding the IMS shower screen along with the smaller profile dome bolt as recommended by Doram


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