# Gaggia Classic & Eureka Mignon Specialita Dialing In Help



## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

Hi All, I'm looking for some help to try to dial in my espressos.

Ive had a Gaggia Classic for a number of years, and made ok coffee from it, but I'm trying to get my espressos better, and generally improve my coffees. Ive just purchased a new Eureka Specialita, which so far seems great.

Setup: 2011 Gaggia Classic (Steam wand mod), Standard Gaggia PF with double basket (14g?), 2020 Eureka Mignon Specialita, 58.4mm Motta Tamp, 0.1g scales.

Grinder:

I received the grinder and checked where the burrs touch. It was about -0.5 on the dial, but i did notice they didn't lock, so the burrs are not exactly square to each other. Ive seen you can shim them to get them sorted.

Ive generally been grinding around the 2 - 3 dial setting on the grinder with varying results.

Making Espresso:

Firstly, I've generally been using around 14g of grounds. Ive noticed that after the shot is pulled, i can see an indent of the shower screen, and screw. Generally can't see before the shot is pulled, but it must be close. From reading, i thought the standard basket could easily do 14g if not 16/18g (even though its only rated to 14g)? Will this cause any issue?

The best tasting so far I've had are: 14.4g ground @ Grinder Setting 2.55. Extracted 20g of coffee in 40 seconds or 14.4g ground @ Grinder Setting 2.0 Extracted 28g of coffee in 60 seconds. It seems to be taking around 10 seconds from pressing the button to get any coffee out of the PF. I managed to pick out some of the tasting notes from the beans, but i found the crema to be bitter. Also the ratios and timings are not great either.

If i set the grinder more towards the 2 marker, i get some bits in the bottom of the espresso cup. Ive tried grind settings from 2 up to around 3.5.

Do i need to upgrade my basket to get 18g and work from there? Is the 10s time from button to coffee too long as it generally means i need to pull the shot for a lot longer it seems? Ive been using Origin Resolute Beans.

Any help appreciated. Thanks


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## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

Have i posted this in the wrong section?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't judge a shot by the crema's taste. It should actually be stirred into the espresso before drinking. 60 secs to pull a 1:2 ratio, especially if you are experiencing bitterness, is too long. Try opening the grind and shortening the total extraction time to somewhere in the 25-35 sec range. If you are getting shower screen indentation on the puck, there isn't sufficient room for the puck to expand during preinfusion so a larger basket might be a good idea. Different beans, when ground, occupy different volumes. So where one dose of beans may cause shower screen indentation another might not. You haven't mentioned how hard you tamp - if you are applying a very firm pressure, might be an idea to ease up a bit.


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## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

Thanks for your help.

I will try a slightly coarser grind. I have adjusted the tamping pressure a bit as well. I've found that if I go coarser, I need to tamp harder to try to get into the 30 sec extraction window. I maybe should try to reduce the pressure on the finer grind, so the extraction time is a bit quicker.

I will look for a bigger basket as well. I don't think i can get a bigger basket to fit into my standard Gaggia PF, so i might need a bottomless one. Stock of these seems hard to come by at the moment!


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## foxy (Nov 14, 2016)

cornishrob said:


> Thanks for your help.
> 
> I will try a slightly coarser grind. I have adjusted the tamping pressure a bit as well. I've found that if I go coarser, I need to tamp harder to try to get into the 30 sec extraction window. I maybe should try to reduce the pressure on the finer grind, so the extraction time is a bit quicker.
> 
> I will look for a bigger basket as well. I don't think i can get a bigger basket to fit into my standard Gaggia PF, so i might need a bottomless one. Stock of these seems hard to come by at the moment!


 Might not help but I asked the same question on the forum a couple of years back and was told a vsf 18g basket fits a standard classic portafilter and it does ! Might be worth asking the seller if it will fit your portafilter just in case. The 18g one is the only one I use now for a couple of decent cups.


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## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

Ah great thanks. I was planning to get the IMS one, as i had read its slightly more forgiving than the VST one. Not sure how true that is.

Does anyone know if this would fit a standard Gaggia PF handle: @BlackCatCoffee

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/espresso-accessories/products/ims-competition-series-16-20g


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## Abcan (Jan 10, 2020)

cornishrob said:


> Ah great thanks. I was planning to get the IMS one, as i had read its slightly more forgiving than the VST one. Not sure how true that is.
> 
> Does anyone know if this would fit a standard Gaggia PF handle: @BlackCatCoffee
> 
> https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/espresso-accessories/products/ims-competition-series-16-20g


 Hi

I have that and it does fit the standard Gaggia PF but I think the 68mm O/S diameter one is the one that it states is compatible with Gaggia classic PF.

The below is good for understanding the numbers on the basket.

http://www.imsfiltri.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/IMS-Competition-Catalogue.pdf


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## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

I've ordered a bottomless PF to get me started. Hopefully this will help


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## Coffee Chris (Jan 21, 2021)

Hey @cornishrob keep me posted I just bought the same kit and I'm struggling with bitterness. My Confidence level is decreasing with each bitter drink!!!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Are you allowing the machine to heat up fully before trying to pull shots ?

Are you weighing coffee in and liquid out . Starting ratio 1 : 2 eg 18 gm in. =36 gm out. in approx 25 -30 secs

Are you using freshly ground coffee ?


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## Coffee Chris (Jan 21, 2021)

Allowing the machine to heat up It's a simple and good point 😀! I've heated it up and tested the water to the point it was steaming.

how long should the machine heat up for? I can't find a definite number!

I'm weighing the coffee in but not out as frankly it's not been great.

I seem to have gotten the ground size down to it's finest but I def need to practice making sure it's in the basket level.

im suspecting the supermarket beans aren't the best (as there is no roasting date on the packet).

@cornishrob sorry for Hijacking your post!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Allow 20 minutes to warm up with the portafilter in place , longer is OK.

If you are NOT weighing in and out you will not know how much coffee you are extracting from the grounds. The coffee can then be under or over extracted.

Your initial start point should be as above, 1 : 2. 18 gm in. 36 gm out this should give you a balanced cup of coffee which you can adjust to your liking

when you get consistency.

Place your finger tips on the edge of the tamper to sense when it is equal on opposite sides. rotate 90 deg and repeat.

Without the consistency of weighing in and out, it will not matter how good/ fresh the beans are you will still over / under extract = poor taste.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> Allow 20 minutes to warm up with the portafilter in place , longer is OK.
> If you are NOT weighing in and out you will not know how much coffee you are extracting from the grounds. The coffee can then be under or over extracted.
> Your initial start point should be as above, 1 : 2. 18 gm in. 36 gm out this should give you a balanced cup of coffee which you can adjust to your liking
> when you get consistency.
> ...


As the above but I'd give it 25-30min warm up.
Once you've mastered weighing in and out I'd look at temperature surfing. The temp swing on the classic is quite big.


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## Coffee Chris (Jan 21, 2021)

The heating up of the machine def made a difference this morning. 
I will keep working on my tamper skills and believe it or not the issue with weighing is the availability of appropriate cups!! Got to love lock down for 1st world coffee problems!!


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Coffee Chris said:


> ...*Got to love lock down* for 1st world coffee *problems*!!...


 Yepp *and a few other problems* not necessarily coffee related, e.g. cars 🔨


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

I got to a level of comfort with the grind, tamp, etc to where the temperature swing was maddening. Even with a good temperature surfing routine there was still wild inconsistency.

The temperature situation became so infuriating I bought and fitted the Shades of Coffee PID Kit (and pretty much every other Shades mod going) - my results have improved immensely. There is such a big difference between knowing and thinking you know the temperature of the machine, which allows you to better assess the adjustment of your other input variables (grind size, distribution, tamp, etc).


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## Deegee (Apr 5, 2020)

Kjk said:


> he temperature situation became so infuriating I bought and fitted the Shades of Coffee PID Kit (and pretty much every other Shades mod going) - my results have improved immensely


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## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

Sorry for not replying. Only just seen to comments.

So im getting a lot happier with my setup. I love the specialita so far!

As above, since i ordered the grinder, I've got a bottomless PF, scales, Motta 58.4mm tamp. My most recent purchase has been a wireless plug socket, so i can turn the machine on via Siri, or via an app on my phone. It means i can turn on the machine from my garden office, or set a schedule for early morning so the machine is always hot when i want to use it. This has made a bit difference. I dont have a PID though!

I've found a new coffee roaster very close to me, so I'm getting nice fresh coffee regularly which helps, and the coffee is great.

My grinder was starting to touch at about -0.5, and locked up at around -1.0. I've had the grinder set to around 2.5 - 3.0 on the dial for my espressos.


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## Coffee Chris (Jan 21, 2021)

Wireless plug, very impressive. I've been asking my wife to turn on the machine as she works in the kitchen but i usually get told to stop making noise!!! 😄

I've been thinking about a bottomless PF but will try and improve my consistency with the every day tasks. 
@cornishrob post a photo or video I'd like to see you current results.


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## cornishrob (Jan 7, 2021)

I went for this one as i found that the standard PF wouldn't even allow a 14g dose without getting a shower screen inprint on the puck. The new PF allowed 18g easily which has allowed me a slightly bigger shot, which i prefer.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAGGIA-Bottomless-Naked-Portafilter-Coffee-Espresso-Handle-21g-Triple-Basket-NEW/401400543319?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I also forgot to say that i dropped the pressure down to 9 Bar. I just purchased the bits required to fit the gauges to my standard PF.

I also found watching some YouTube videos helped me understand the process a bit more. If you're still getting bitter shots, i would grind a bit finer.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

cornishrob said:


> I went for this one as i found that the standard PF wouldn't even allow a 14g dose without getting a shower screen inprint on the puck. The new PF allowed 18g easily which has allowed me a slightly bigger shot, which i prefer.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAGGIA-Bottomless-Naked-Portafilter-Coffee-Espresso-Handle-21g-Triple-Basket-NEW/401400543319?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> ...


 Not sure If I missed it, do you have scales for output? This was my biggest game changer..


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## Coffee Chris (Jan 21, 2021)

Tinkstar said:


> Not sure If I missed it, do you have scales for output? This was my biggest game changer..


 I've got some scales but they are too large to fit a cup under the PF!

but after findings some nice beans, getting a distribution / levelling tool but I think mainly more familiar with my equipment I getting some good shots. Def still some room for improvement but I'm enjoying the process and output.

now I'm on the hunt for some decent scales!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Coffee Chris said:


> I've got some scales but they are too large to fit a cup under the PF!
> 
> but after findings some nice beans, getting a distribution / levelling tool but I think mainly more familiar with my equipment I getting some good shots. Def still some room for improvement but I'm enjoying the process and output.
> 
> now I'm on the hunt for some decent scales!


 I opted for an espresso shot glass 🤷‍♂️ got two and works a treat.


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