# Profitec 700 anybody got one?



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Suffering upgradeitis with a dual boiler in mind. Was looking at the Verona but somewhat put off by some problems recorded elsewhere on here.

Liking the look of the Profitec 700 specs which seem remarkably similar to the Contravento apart from the hot water/steam valves.

The other alternative is a DB Vibiemme Super but they seem to be hard to obtain in the UK.

If anyone has any experience of the Profitec I would be most interested and grateful to hear.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?18152-Profitec-machines


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Thanks Jeebsy but I'd done that much homework already.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Haha, sorry - meant to say had asked about them before but didn't get much response.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

A little bump for this just in case there is an owner lurking here somewhere.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://www.home-barista.com/reviews/profitec-pro-700-review-t30361.html


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

Rob666 said:


> A little bump for this just in case there is an owner lurking here somewhere.


I've just become the owner of one. Only had it 2 and a bit days but so far it is great. Design and build quality are very good, as are the shots. A marked improvement over my old Isomac Rituale HX machine which is surprising as that was also an E61 machine and with a group mounted thermometer my temperatures should have been spot on. The rotary vs vibe pump shouldn't affect things either. Still, you can't argue with what happens in the cup:good:

The steam power is very strong too especially after changing the PID settings to run both boilers simultaneously (uses more amperage but hey that is only really an issue State-side). Again a lot stronger than the HX machine.

There are no rattles etc and the rotary pump is very quiet so must be well mounted. The only thing I can criticise so far is that the cup warming tray guard could be a little smoother on the edges. Not sharp as such but would benefit from better de-burring. I am being picky though.

It may be a little thing but the timer on the PID when lifting the lever is a nice touch and handy as I always lose the kitchen timer...


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Many thanks Simon!

That sounds very promising. Would love to hear how you are getting on when you've had it a while longer.


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## icnoble (Nov 25, 2014)

I bought one 6 weeks from Bella Barista and it is a fantastic machine with superb build quality.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Thanks icnoble, What else did you look at and what decided you?


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

icnoble said:


> I bought one 6 weeks from Bella Barista and it is a fantastic machine with superb build quality.


At least I'm not the only one here then! Sounds like BB have been shifting quite a few recently, I think they said they sold 6 in the last 2 weeks. Amazing what £100 off can do


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

How is this machine both a HX and a DB?

0_o

Edit: BB dont state this, but ont he Profitec site they call it

"HEAT EXCHANGER ESPRESSO MACHINE PRO 700

PRO 700 - DUAL BOILER WITH PID TEMPERATURE CONTROL"


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

Dylan said:


> How is this machine both a HX and a DB?
> 
> 0_o
> 
> ...


Yeah, not sure if that is just a copy and paste error or a translation problem. It is just a "plain" dual boiler machine. They do the 500 which is an HX machine.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Being lost in translation was my first guess, everything but the title shows its a DB.


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

icnoble said:


> I bought one 6 weeks from Bella Barista and it is a fantastic machine with superb build quality.


I forgot to say, have you changed the PID setting so that both steam and brew boilers can be powered simultaneously? If not I would recommend it, uses a little more power but shortens the time to get up to temperature and makes steaming during, or just after a shot much better as both elements can be on. With this set even with the steam tap fully open it keeps up at lease 1bar of pressure continuously, which I gather several other dual boiler machines struggle to do


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

OK, so now we are getting to grips with the Profitec 700. I had some issues with a tendency towards doughnut extractions (i.e. pours starting from the outside with a dead-spot in the middle) when watching using the naked portafilter. I went through a few steps to improve my dosing, but also using a fake pre-infusion seemed to help. As the machine is not (yet) plumbed you cannot do proper pre-infusion but you can wet the put with the thermosyphon water. For some reason doing this for a few seconds seems to make the pour start mostly evenly, unless of course it just coincided with my paying particular attention to technique!

I also found I needed to shorten my expected shot time. With a vibe pump machine there is quite a bit of dead-time after the pump coming on to the pressure building up enough to start the pour. With the rotary pump this happens more quickly so the shot naturally starts quicker and is over in a shorter total time for the same actual extraction time. With the old machine I would shot for 30-35s from pulling the lever. With the new one I need to go for 25-30s to get the same effective shot.

I have also played with some temperature differences. One particular blend was bland until I dropped down to 91C whereas another needed to be at 94C to keep acidity under control. Whilst this was possible with the old HX machine it is WAY easier with the dual boiler one, albeit that you cannot change on the fly, you have to wait 15 mins or so for stabilisation. However I mostly change the temperature for the next time I do a shot which may be some hours later or the next day, so not a real hindrance.

I also got round to adding my grouphead thermometer fitting (from EricS - from Home Barista fame) I used on the Rituale HX machine. What this revealed was that the grouphead idles at around 88-89C so not far below brew temperature. It also showed that with the factory recommended temperature offset in the PID at 14C (i.e. if I select 94C brew temp the PID sets the boiler at 108C) then I get pretty much the set temperature of water hitting the puck, so it looks like Profitec did their homework well.

So far not really anything negative to say about the machine, the shots are outstanding, and the milk steaming is a doddle with the power and a 4-hole tip.

OK, there is one negative, it is working so well I have now purchased a better grinder (64mm burrs) as I suspect my 58mm burr Mazzer Mini is the limiting factor in the shots.

A never ending search!!


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## mgreen (Jul 2, 2014)

Simonp,

I have been lucky enough to purchase one of these beauties over Xmas, overall very impressed but the only thing puzzling me is I am only getting 8bar pressure when I pull a shot is this the factory pre-set!? I am happy with the quality from the shots I am getting but in any videos I see for the machine it's running around 10bar. The machine is not plumbed in and running tanked by the way

Your thoughts would get much appreciated

Malcolm


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

mgreen said:


> Simonp,
> 
> I have been lucky enough to purchase one of these beauties over Xmas, overall very impressed but the only thing puzzling me is I am only getting 8bar pressure when I pull a shot is this the factory pre-set!? I am happy with the quality from the shots I am getting but in any videos I see for the machine it's running around 10bar. The machine is not plumbed in and running tanked by the way
> 
> ...


Hi Malcom,

My machine is set for around 9.5 bar which when I measure using my DIY portafilter pressure gauge gives me just over 9 bar which should equate to 8.5 to 9 bar with a shot running which I would say was ideal. It sounds like yours is set a little low. You can adjust your pump pressure using the screw on the pump which you can access from under the machine. You can see in this video at about 1:36 in. I presume you got the machine from Bella Barista? If so then if you don;t fancy having a go yourself I'm sure they would tweak it for presuming they are not too far..

Mine is also running on the tank till I can re-arrange the kitchen around to get it plumbed in.


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## mgreen (Jul 2, 2014)

Sorry pretty new on here, can't seem to see the video, I think there is something loose inside the machine too, as it makes a rattling noise when you tilt it to look at the access screws, will probably have it couriered back to BB for them to have a look at it!

Thanks for all your help though


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey Guys

Can anyone who got one of these from BB confirm whether or not it came with a pre-drilled drip tray and drain kit?

The website says no, but elsewhere I have seen that the new revisions should come with it.

Just checking before I bother Claudette again lol

Aaron


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## greenm (Oct 27, 2014)

Mine did from BB and I brought it at Christmas, nice machines!!


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Thanks Greenm


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## robin taylor (Jun 12, 2014)

Yes the drip trays from BB are drilled for drainage

Robin


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

On the former machines I've owned (Bezzera Magica and Strega), removing the antiburn plastic insulation from inside the steam arm increased the quality of steaming. Did anyone try this with the Pro 700?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

zuluafonu said:


> On the former machines I've owned (Bezzera Magica and Strega), removing the antiburn plastic insulation from inside the steam arm increased the quality of steaming. Did anyone try this with the Pro 700?


I've got a Pro 700. This does indeed improve the quality of the steam (less condensation). It is very easy to remove the insulation tube. You can either:

- Remove the steam tip; with some tweezers, pull a little bit and then use your fingers to pull the rest. It is not attached to anything. Just the silicone will stretch a bit. Be careful not to damage it with the tweezers).

- Unscrew the nut that connects to the tap - Be careful as the ball valve is held against the tap with a spring. Make sure it doesn't pop and make sure you don't damage the ball valve. Unscrew the steam wand and then remove the silicone tube. Use this step in reverse if you ever wish to retro-fit the silicone tube again.

Good luck.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Also, I have increased the steam temp a bit (to 125C) and set up the boilers to work together. All very easy things to do. By default, the brew boiler has preference over the steam boiler.


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

I turned on the machine today for the first time and I think something is wrong. Could you please help me? First I used a blind filter then the group was empty.

Thank you!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

zuluafonu said:


> I turned on the machine today for the first time and I think something is wrong. Could you please help me? First I used a blind filter then the group was empty.
> 
> Thank you!


What?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think he is saying that with no pressure, there is still water squirting out of the over pressure release into the drip tray.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I think this is a stuck vacuum relief valve. Video here with the cure:


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the help! I lowered the brew pressure as shown





. Now it's on 9.5 with the blind filter and the water squirting into the drip tray has stopped.

By default it was set higher than the green zone on the gauge.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Glad you sorted out. Looks like that, for whichever reason, the pressure at the pump was higher than the Over Pressure Valve - a safety feature on machines equipped with rotary pumps but the only way to adjust the pressure on machines equipped with vibe pumps - thus diverting water into the drip tray.


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

How many degrees does your PRO700 drops during an extraction? Mine drops from 92 to 88 extracting 50ml in 25s. Is there a setting to improve the thermal stability? Thank you again!









Is it possible to get this level of stability?:

"I've pulled quite a few shots since and have spent a lot of time with the Scace as well. The Profitec is very temperature stable intrashot (doesn't vary more than 0.2*C) and given at least a minute between shots the intershot temperature stability is also very good."

The source.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

zuluafonu said:


> How many degrees does your PRO700 drops during an extraction? Mine drops from 92 to 88 extracting 50ml in 25s. Is there a setting to improve the thermal stability? Thank you again!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are you measuring the temp from?


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

It should not drop by 4c not even in stock configuration.

I have a V2B and the intrashot stability is within 0.5c I would expect any other E61 DB to behave in a similar fashion

Intershot stability can wary as much as 1-1,5c (depending on machine and configuration) if pulling allot of successive shots within a short time frame, but realistically not many home users are doing exactly that.

So yours is way off, but the only way to know for sure is to scace test it!


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

The temperature on the pid display.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Reading the nr. On the PID display dosent tell you the true story as it depends on where the sensor is located within the boiler, is it at the entrance of the water from the pump, a drop is to be expected.

But still 4c sounds extreme compared to the youtube clips found on the net, it's rarely more then one. But sometimes hard to tell due to the shot timer


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

malling said:


> Reading the nr. On the PID display dosent tell you the true story as it depends on where the sensor is located within the boiler, is it at the entrance of the water from the pump, a drop is to be expected.


I've looked at this diagram (page 7) and I found the sensor 17 and the fresh water source 15. They are both on the upper part or the boiler, in a diametrically opposed position.

Could anyone confirm the temp drop on the PID next time you brew a shot?









I haven't found any youtube clip that would show the brew boiler temp before and after the extraction, exactly because of the timer.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

I get a similar temp drop now and again.

I will check on next shot.

I have found with Stock settings that it can be hard to get the machine to the right temperature.

If I set to 94c, it tends more often that not to idle at 93. Have tried setting to 95c, and sods law, it sticks more often than not, at 95c.

Getting 94c is a pain.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

The 93 and 94 are just setting, in reality temperature is located within +/- 0,8 from the selected temperature. The machine react within 0,5c and that will get it to shift back and forward on certain temperature setting and hold it on others. But doesn't mean anything as one degree resolution ain't very precise on a machine capable of holding it within 0,5c


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

zuluafonu said:


> I've looked at this diagram (page 7) and I found the sensor 17 and the fresh water source 15. They are both on the upper part or the boiler, in a diametrically opposed position.
> 
> Could anyone confirm the temp drop on the PID next time you brew a shot?
> 
> ...


Mine is the same, I have it set to 92C, the temperature differential between boiler and group is set to 15C, and, after pulling a double shot and rinsing the group with 1oz, the temperature displayed is 89C.


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