# Getting a bit irritated



## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Hey guys, let me tell you a story. I got in to a coffee game about a year ago with Gaggia Classic and Iberital MC2, duped that setup due to inconsistency and poor milk steaming. Moved to Moccamaster, great machine still have it. And really recently I got myself Sage Dual Boiler, great little machine - can't get a single bloody espresso out of it (still with MC2). Flow speeds up at the end, pressure is not the same but jumps through the extraction, coffee blonds at about 10g and every single shot is sour. I tried everything, different dosing, tamping, stirring grounds in portafilter, tapping. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I got the same result. And I got through 1KG of Crankhouse Coffee beans already - such a waste. I'm tired. What's wrong?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Upgrade the grinder.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Mazzer?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Bigger the burrs, generally, the better the grind consistency. Mazzers are a safe bet - plenty around used which is the way to go to make your budget go furthest.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mazzers aren't the only choice - check forum for sale section to see what's available.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I got a thread in Wanted now, 200 in the pot but can stretch it. if it's worth it. I was suspecting the grinder from the beginning.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> I got a thread in Wanted now, 200 in the pot but can stretch it. if it's worth it. I was suspecting the grinder from the beginning.


Way to go Be patient - bit like buses - nothing for ages then several come along at once.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Not saying not good idea to get the Mazza - but mc2 and sage db combo shouldn't be producing this shot after shot.

Did u get white glove offer?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Agree with above, especially about being patient:good:


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I bought it used here few days ago, so no white glove service. Everything I'm observing seems like channelling, but after so may tries with distribution I have no idea how I couldn't get it done right at least once.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

In the meantime try a different coffee. Some beans can be more forgiving of a lesser grinder. Darker roasts tend to be better in this respect than lighter roasts which can be difficult to dial in.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

My guess is the burrs are worn.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

It got like 10kg of beans through it at best, doesn't seem like much. I can record whole process for you, so you will be able to tell what's wrong.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Upload a clip - always helps - include your pre-shot prep too if you can.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

1 min extraction this time, still sour. CH8 Espresso Blend


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Are you stopping the shot by colour or by weight ?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Weight, 18g in 36g out.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Grind is too fine - your shot is taking 60secs - way too long. Try opening the grind and getting in the 25-30sec ball park and see what it tastes like.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

May I add my two-penneth's worth . . .

Agree with the grind being too fine . . . also, can you tell us how hard you are tamping? It looked very light (on the p/f spouts on a slippy worktop made me wonder).


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I know that's too long, grinder was left after my last experiment I tried to over extract it, no luck. I'm tamping it till I don't feel any movement of grounds anymore.

When I could make it extract for 30s but the flow will get ridiculous at the end.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

re the 60 sec shot , tis likely that your shot is very strong . try diluting it and tasting it . Sourness from a blend of South Americans , at a minutes shot time is going some... Aim for balance though in the end . Grind coarser


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

36s


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> 36s


How did it taste


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I think it was more sour than a lemon.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Sour indicates under extraction. Your 60 sec extraction was bitter. Does look like your grinder is the issue. MC2 isn't a brilliant grinder. A decent grinder will be a revelation shot quality-wise.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> I think it was more sour than a lemon.


This is Ch8, blend of south African coffee.?

What coffee have you had That hasn't been sour?

I'd go to 18g into 50 plus same grind


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Agree with Boots and Systemic. Your grind was too tight.

I also think your tapping, pinching, over-stirring, and uneven tamping is probably giving you channelling issues.

Looser grind, better shot prep, 30s 1:2 extraction - taste. If it's still sour, try a higher ratio 1:2.5+.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You should be able to get something. Other than sour with that coffee and Grinder in a range of 20-60 second shots. If not brew the coffee to calibrate your palate


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Instead of grinding straight into the PF grind into a cup, give it a shake then transfer to the PF, via funnel/dosing ring.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Agree. That last shot looked as though it was channeling badly. Did you check the dry puck for signs?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Do you have a naked portafilter? I think it might help.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I think that's channelling as well, but. Preparation was the same as on the 1st video, notice that there is 5s preinfusion and then 10s nothing and then the espresso itself. I can't examine dry pucks as it sticks to the shower screen.

I don't have naked portafilter, yet.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> I think that's channelling as well, but. Preparation was the same as on the 1st video, notice that there is 5s preinfusion and then 10s nothing and then the espresso itself. I can't examine dry pucks as it sticks to the shower screen.
> 
> I don't have naked portafilter, yet.


Looking at a puck post extraction will tell you nothing..


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> I can't examine dry pucks as it sticks to the shower screen.


You may still be too fine & water is forcing its way around the puck.

What was the difference in grind setting between the 2 shots?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

It was like four full turns of the knob. But you might be right, I will try even coarser


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Looking at a puck post extraction will tell you nothing..


I can usually tell if there's been side channeling, and I should know!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

lake_m said:


> I can usually tell if there's been side channeling, and I should know!


Or your seeing the effect of the opv post extraction.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Id say that the grinder will be the culprit as has been said earlier. I had an MC2 and with some coffees the results went from ok to awful in the same bag (Has Beans Kicker from back then caused me real heartache - nothing wrong with the coffee). 4 turns of the knob isn't a huge difference on the MC2.

If you can, get a grinder more deserving of your Sage. A couple of hundred quid and upwards for a used commercial grinder will make a huge difference.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Yeah, I tried different grind settings, results still pretty bad with flow speeding up at the end and poor extraction.

Would anyone be so kind to visit me and help me out with it (Hounslow), maybe I'm doing some obvious mistake that I can't notice.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Yeah, I tried different grind settings, results still pretty bad with flow speeding up at the end and poor extraction.
> 
> Would anyone be so kind to visit me and help me out with it (Hounslow), maybe I'm doing some obvious mistake that I can't notice.


Why is flow speeding up at the end a problem?

Please define "different grind settings". We can't help you at all if we don't know exactly what changes you have made & their impact.

Log the following:

Grind setting

Dose weight

Output weight

Shot time in total

Taste

Whether the puck is still sticking to the shower screen.

The only half-obvious mistake at the moment appears to be grind setting.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Okay I'm gonna really coarse grind and start noting everything. Will keep you updated


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

And here how it went:

Always 18g in, 36g out. Same dosing technique, same tamping.

1. G0 (grind 0 - as initial setting, +1 for one turn finer, -1 for one turn coarser)

21s (time in seconds)

S10 (sourness scale 1-10)

NO (if puck were stuck to shower screen)

2. G-4

11s

S15

NO

3.G+2

15s

8S

NO

4.G+4

16s

S10

5.G+6

22s (8bar)

S10

6.G+8

36s

S9

HALF

7.G+8

37s

S9

YES

8.G+9

33s

S9

YES

9.G+9 no preinfusion

33s

S9

YES

10.G+9 90% preinfusion all time

27s (3bar)

S10

YES


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Where are you based?

The figures don't really help most diagnose the issue - without tasting as well

Ratio of 1:2 not always best

Beans may be the issue

Dose technique needs to be seen in person


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Why are all the shots 18g in 36g out? Doesn't it strike you that you are making a self-fulfilling prophecy? The more water you push through the puck, the more likely you will get past sourness.

Sorry I wasn't clear - I thought you would make a shot, report back, collect feedback, make shot 2 & feedback, repeat....then in 5 shots you would have a ball-park espresso.

Why have you introduced a variables in change of preinfusion & pressure?

Dosing technique "the same" as in the same (grind into cup, shake, transfer to PF) for all 10 shots, or the same as you were doing before (grind into PF & tickling stick)?

Perhaps, take a step back, make a couple of shots per day, maybe 3. Don't be in a rush to make another until you have fully digested what has happened and what you think the error is. That's over 180g of coffee, you can't have tasted all the shots all the way through? You need to see if they end as sour as they start. The wheels seemed to be coming off after shot 6, maybe shot 7 would have been a sanity check for #6, but to then to keep going finer and waste 3 more shots serves little purpose.

How often does neat espresso you try out & about reach this level of sourness?

Try G+6/7 and 1:3 (54g out), then report back...& have the Moccamaster brewing so you can at least enjoy some coffee.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

About dosing: I've used funnel, 18g in, stir, tap to level and tamp.

I've got all these shots to check my dosing and tamping technique (if it's gonna be consistent) and observe changes to the extraction time.

Anyway, what concerns me the most is the flow. Every single video about espresso technique has perfectly seamless flow from the beginning to the end. And mine squirt at the end.

I'm in London, TW3


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Anyway, what concerns me the most is the flow. Every single video about espresso technique has perfectly seamless flow from the beginning to the end.


The flow may speed up, worry about it when you are pulling really long shots that are still sour. The aspect you need to focus on is how long it takes from hitting the brew button to getting 54g in the cup, what it does in between isn't of primary concern. Once you can mitigate the sourness, you can work back to a shorter ratio if you want & obsess about what the flow looks like. Unless you have tasted the shots in the videos, you don't know they are any less sour. I've had sweet shots that pissed out of the PF.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

My shots speed up towards the end and I rarely ever get sourness. It seems to depend on how fresh the coffee is, with the fresher coffee producing bags of crema and speeding up towards the end of the shot and older coffee maintaining a steady flow throughout.

Are you single dosing your small conical? That isn't going to help a grinder which could really do with some help. Either dose into a tube and weigh the dose down or empty the bag into the hopper. Also make sure your dose is consistent, I noticed in the first video you pinched until your scales read 18.0g exactly and when you removed the portafilter you could see the scales had coffee on them. Bear in mind the scales aren't 100% accurate and will read 17.9, 18.0 and 18.1 for the same dose so no need to split hairs over it that precisely. I never had any success with WDT and just tap the side of the PF with my finger until it's level now. Very slight channeling from slightly uneven tamp or distribution won't produce undrinkable shots, but seriously messing distribution/tamping up will.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I've recently found that stopping my shots short of the 1:2 ratio have tasted better than those that I let run further on. Something to try maybe if nothing else


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> And here how it went:
> 
> Always 18g in, 36g out. Same dosing technique, same tamping.
> 
> ...


I've gone through the log of shots you pulled. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why, if you go finer in the grind setting, it would stick to the shower screen.

Logic says if dose is consistent, then finer grind should offer greater clearance to shower screen?

Strange indeed. But probably not related to reasons causing sourness. Oh well, mystery to be solved another day.

My 2 cents from my experience..

Pre-infuse or not?

I would say yes, do it. Anything to increase extraction time. Longer the time, less sour, more bitter. (a huge generalisation)

Also do preinfuse because it may reduce the chance likelihood of channeling, another reason to become sour.

Increase or decrease dose?

Please keep this a constant. You want at least one variable constant. Otherwise there would be no basis for comparison.

Ratio

As suggested by others, try increasing this to 1:3 (18g in, 54g espresso)

But when you start playing with this, lock down on other variables.

Now, it might sound crazy, but this would be my recipe.

It seems you're not scared of trying, judging by the number of attempts so far 

Ratio 1:3 (but it will ultimately become less, described below)

Dose 18g

Extraction time Inc preinfusion 40sec

Grind setting +8 (my hunch looking at your log to try and achieve 40sec goal, and you're gonna have to play around with tamping a bit to achieve this. )

Above, you might have tried something similar already.

Now have 2 cups ready, and start brewing, with a scale under the cup.

The moment you hit 18g of brew, swipe the cup away, and place the second cup in its place. Basically swap cups.

And then brew away the remaining 36g.

Taste the two.

The first section should be like lemon on steroids.

Second cuo should be bland and bitter, has majority of the body, and maybe a bit weak too.

A lot of the complex acids that give each coffee it's unique flavours tend to be extracted early on in the brew, so to deny it all from your shot would be akin making it anonymous.

So mix it in, bit by bit, or use your imagination to decide how much of the early brew needs to be re-incorporated/ discarded.

No one likes sour coffee, but there's good and bad sour, the good being what contributes towards the beans character.

Try, let us know how it went


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

All right, I pulled another shot.

18g in 54 out.

41s

Grind +8

And this overwhelming sourness is gone, I'm left with pleasant tingling on sides of my tongue. But espresso lost it's whole body and feels watered down, there is not much taste to it. And I got grounds in cup, just like on my Gaggia some time ago, this grinder needs to go.

Ps. I can't brew anything in Moccamaster, this is my only grinder.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> All right, I pulled another shot.
> 
> 18g in 54 out.
> 
> ...


Progress! 

The longer you pull the shot (in grams) the lower the viscosity.

Grounds in the cup, may mean a bit on the fine side, try a little coarser.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> All right, I pulled another shot.
> 
> 18g in 54 out.
> 
> ...


Good to hear sourness is less now.

There is light at the end of the tunnel!

Coffee ground in your cup could be through the basket, or maybe a spec fell on to the spout during redistribution.

You've been finer in the settings.. (+9 was the finest you tried?)

If you didn't get any then but did at +8, then maybe a bit feel off on to the spout?

A lot of people have suggested that the grinder is at fault.

Maybe it is. I don't know.

But if you have had it from your gaggia classic days, then even though you said it was inconsistent, that implies that at least sometimes it would be good 

And especially so if you know this CH 8 blend and are familiar with it from back in gaggia days, I say there's nothing wrong with the grinder.

What can the classic do that your Sage cannot?


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

I don't make espresso but sometimes I just read these threads to learn something that will crossover to brewed. And of course it does in relation to dose, grind, time, volume and extraction. But more than anything I'm always blown away by the wealth of knowledge on here and people's willingness to patiently share it and to help someone, including me, to get a good shot/brew. Amazing stuff and a bit like the scenario where the pilot has had a heart attack and a passenger is being coached from the ground on how to land the plane. And I'm gripped now so @marcin.mielniczu don't give up on this until you get it nailed. The saga is riveting and has potential to become a Netflix Original


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

salty said:


> I don't make espresso but sometimes I just read these threads to learn something that will crossover to brewed. And of course it does in relation to dose, grind, time, volume and extraction. But more than anything I'm always blown away by the wealth of knowledge on here and people's willingness to patiently share it and to help someone, including me, to get a good shot/brew. Amazing stuff and a bit like the scenario where the pilot has had a heart attack and a passenger is being coached from the ground on how to land the plane. And I'm gripped now so @marcin.mielniczu don't give up on this until you get it nailed. The saga is riveting and has potential to become a Netflix Original


If the combined boffins at Huston could bring that hunk of metal back to earth safely, then I feel confident the combined wisdom on this forum can solve sourness!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> All right, I pulled another shot.
> 
> 18g in 54 out.
> 
> And this overwhelming sourness is gone, I'm left with pleasant tingling on sides of my tongue.


Good. Press on.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

@marcin

If you've yet to try the salami shot, give it a try 

I'm due for a machine upgrade this weekend, but am doing so knowing that I've extracted every bit of available performance out of it through machine mod and technique mods.

What I could do to the machine was very limited, but what I could with it wasn't. I've experimented a lot with temperatures and various grinds, but what I found revealing was experimenting within the shot itself. Blending and recombining various parts of the shot allowed me to drink what would otherwise be a sink shot.

Currently fighting with Vietnamese single origins. Typicas are borderline drinkable, but the Catimor here is sooooo god damn sour (hence my interest in this thread!) Unless I roast them like Starbucks. But then they might as well be any beans.

So one of the things I'm doing is discarding the first 10% of the shot. Makes a world's difference!

Your CH beans are of sooooo much more higher quality and desirability (in guessing.. Just saying so because what I'm roasting is barely export level), so yours shouldn't really need doing such Frankenstein shots. But in the short term, until you overcome the learning curve that comes with every new machine combo, it wouldn't hurt to have a trick up your sleeve!


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Such a great audience, I won't disappoint!

But we need to clarify few things







coffee that I'm using right now (and for past 10 shots) is Kayon Mountain.

I haven't checked any other shot for grounds as I simply wasn't able to finish it. I've got this issue with different coffee beans, and espresso machines but Grinder was staying the same so I blame it for the issue.

I'm gonna try it a bit coarser.

And about salami shot, I'm gonna do it tomorrow when I will get some shot glasses


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Such a great audience, I won't disappoint!
> 
> But we need to clarify few things
> 
> ...


Get the whole shot right first before messing around with salami shots, it really will IMHO confuse things until you have a balanced shot over whole extraction.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I got it

18g in 54g out

Grind +7

Extraction 37s

Taste, same like before. Bit more sourness.

We fixed sourness, now we need to make it more concentrated. How to achieve that?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Pulled another one in the meantime.

18in 36out

Grind +9

Extraction - forgot to look at it, but it seemed reasonable like around 30s

I think there is still room for tightening the grind, but I will need to wait until tomorrow to test that.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Pulled another one in the meantime.
> 
> 18in 36out
> 
> ...


Taste?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Drinkable, but tad to sour to be pleasant


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

There are a good few numbers between 36 & 54. I don't see why the sudden leap in intervals of 18.

Try bring the shot down from 54g in 5 g increments and see where the objectionable sourness sets in & try grinding a little tighter. Are you grinding into a cup & transferring to PF yet?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I made myself a funnel from jelly container, it was somewhere on the forum so dosing got way easier.

I will try to get grind +10 and work with output weight.

Anyway, I got some budget to upgrade my grinder and would like to ask you for some recommendations. It will be exclusively for espresso, preferably doserless, new or used, it just have to be good generally with least amount of mess that it will be making. 300 in the pot. I was looking at Vario (I think that grind setting on it would make my life easier), Mignon (just by the quality) or, something that I don't really want to go for but if the grind would be worth it - Super Jolly.

What's your opinions?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I ended up with Super Jolly that doesn't grind fine enough. Coffee is not being pushed to the doser and burrs spin freely.

Quick decision - I'm ordering new burrs and springs as that helped someone on the other forum, anyway it wasn't serviced for a long time so it can only do it good









Ah, I will also do a doserless mod on it, just one concern, that's not a timer version and there are two wires running to the doser, what do they do?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cut off switch when doser is full.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Thanks! I will think about it when I will be planning it


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

Grind as fine as you can until it chokes (nuffing comes out) then back off until you have the correct number of grams in the right amount of time...

I'm assuming that the basket is not damaged and leaking.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

DaveP said:


> Grind as fine as you can until it chokes (nuffing comes out) then back off until you have the correct number of grams in the right amount of time...
> 
> I'm assuming that the basket is not damaged and leaking.


But there is issue with grinder, it can't go fine enough.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Why? Open up and post pictures of the threads, burrs, chute etc.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> But there is issue with grinder, it can't go fine enough.


Agree - people on here know the SJ inside out. Post some photos before throwing money after burrs.

Disassemble and see what you find.

Glad you're enjoying the new Sage tho - looks a challenge compared to the Classic then!


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

The puck sticking to shower screen is playing on my mind - doesn't that mean too much coffee being crammed in there? So, either:

1) are you certain that is an 18g basket? I recently read you can test for the correct amount by dosing, tamping, then lay a 10p on top, locking the portafilter then immediately removing and checking whether the coin has marked the surface of the puck - if so, too much coffee for the basket - overfilling causes problems. If this is all okay,

2) the intention of preinfusion is to expand the grinds - shorten the PI and see the result. You didn't have PI on the classic. Surely nail the basic shot on the shiny new toy then you can experiment with PI


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Use a 5p coin. 10p too big.

I think you have a distribution/puck build issue. Even a knackered SJ should be able to choke a 9bar machine.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Obnic said:


> Use a 5p coin. 10p too big.
> 
> Even a knackered SJ should be able to choke a 9bar machine.


The SJ comment is RE a machine OP bought from gumtree - Russe11 posted it a couple

Of days back - the seller was ditching as it

"Only ground coarse" which is really strange but sounds like burr misalignment or maybe badly adjusted and hitting the limiter.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

So I already disassembled grinder, the best thing to find was balls of coffee grounds in doser mechanism. Other than that burrs seem worn out, definitely not sharp when you run your finger on it, also the screw on adjustment (wheel?) Is missing, I got long screws with the same thread, would they do their job?

Sage is a breeze compared to Gaggia, here I'm constant with my results while back with Gaggia espressos were all over the place. Serving two espressos one after another resulted in quick prayer that they will taste the same.

About puck, that is definitely 18g VST - I will definitely do this test on my first espresso today. But I think I'm starting to notice a pattern - if you remove portafilter straight after extraction puck will stick to the screen, but if you gonna give it some time it gonna stay in basket. I'm yet to test it to be sure.

Another thing is scale build up in boilers, I tried water straight from the group head and it was sweet. Will clean it today as well


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

That's how crema on my americano looks like. Same thing happen on espresso but in a smaller scale.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Anything to get leverage to help you rotate the grind adjuster, as long as it fits ok should be better than nothing. Those things are stiff even on the best of days..

Empty your grinder, and find your zero point. That's where the burrs very gently rub each other, then work backwards from there.

With regard to the puck, in your case it might be so, but generally speaking they tend to stick if you leave the puck and portafilter in place for too long after the pull.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Interestingly enough I noticed that these screws that hold lower burr in place are not the same. One is shorter. Is this a big deal?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

u2jewel said:


> Anything to get leverage to help you rotate the grind adjuster, as long as it fits ok should be better than nothing. Those things are stiff even on the best of days..
> 
> Empty your grinder, and find your zero point. That's where the burrs very gently rub each other, then work backwards from there.
> 
> With regard to the puck, in your case it might be so, but generally speaking they tend to stick if you leave the puck and portafilter in place for too long after the pull.


I did exactly what you said and my first shot was way too quick so I thightened the grind and nothing was coming out of the grinder, grounds were traveling up back to the hopper instead being pushed to the doser. And it was crazy hard to turn the adjustment wheel back to the coarse grind.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

**** me, I'm really sorry guys. Everything is sorted...

He thing was I wasn't adjusting it finer with beans inside as i thought it soulu be The same as with empty burrs, turns out it's not. I choked machine with my first shot.

Now espresso is just great, tingly on the sides of the tongue, sweet and fruity in the middle. Shame that I wasted so much coffee trying do get it done quick.

Anyway, right now I ordered some Chinese distribution tool and push tamper to make sure that my shots are consistent with distribution and tamp.

Huge thanks to everyone that helped me here, your knowledge simply overwhelms me. Just wait for my next post with conversion SJ to doserless


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