# Fracino cherub a few questions



## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

So I recently got a cherub from a forum member. It had started leaking pressure and I believe there was no flow from the group. I quick tap on the safety valve next the the vac valve re-seated the valve and stopped the massive pressure leak.

As for the no flow out of the group I had striped most of the pipe work and pulled the 'e61' group off not seeing a problem other then some Scale I as stumped untill I removed the jet from the group and this sorted the issue.

But before pulling my 1st shot I purge valve through the group and it seems to take a short while b fore water flows and I'm not sure but it also looks like there's a reduced flow from the group, so does anyone know what the flow rate should be on the cherub. I have looked around on Google but can't find any info on this.

I was also hoping to install a IMS nanotech shower screen (untill I found out it's a e61 replacer) does anyone know of any upgrade parts and other bits and bobs for the cherub as I'm struggling to find any, also is there a way to change the pressure at the group by adjusting an OPV or something. I don't think I saw one under the hood but thought I would ask where someone would know.

Also has anyone been able to do anything to reduce the noise of the the pump. I have come to a cherub from a classic and I'm not sure if it's just a bigger pump but it seems rather loud. Not sure if wrapping with some sound deadening insulation would be ok or if this would hurt the pump by possibly over heating?

Sorry for the long post but I hugely appreciate any replies and help. So a big thank you.

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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Hiya

May be worth changing the valve.

There's no point in removing the group head to be honest. Just remove the group solonoid and jet and flush it out to clear and rubbish in there.

Pressure wont be anything like a traditional machine - or rather the flow wont be. It does appear weak but its pretty normal though a video would confirm this.

The pump is capable of 16bar and a lot of the time it's pulling a shot at this due to lack of setup. Inside there is a manifold with an adjuster inside.

Have you come from a classic or classico machine? One in the cherub is a vibe pump. Its held by a rubber bracket inside. Inspect this/make sure its not vibration on the sides?


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

Thanks for the reply. So I just ran some generic descaler through and flushed maybe 4 or 5 tanks through to get rid of the blue water this took alot more then I was expecting.

Since I ran the descaler through the flow at the group seems to be almost better and how I would expect.

Thanks for letting me know where the ovp is I will have to purchase a pressure gauge to put on my portafilter and set it down to 8-9bar if it is truly at around 16bar this is far to high I can't believe they send them out to the user set so high

Still can't seem to find any info on a upgraded shower screen. If anyone knows of anything I would be most grateful for the info.

Thanks

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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Evening mate

They dont - but thats what the pump will do. It will change ao when you service it every year it pays to check it.

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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

NewboyUK said:


> Evening mate
> 
> They dont - but thats what the pump will do. It will change ao when you service it every year it pays to check it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


Sorry mate I don't quite understand what your meant

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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

I meant that the pump can do 16bar.
Its not set like that from new.
Check it every year

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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

Ohhh right got ya. I don't think it will of ever been checked and it's a 2013 model so it's well over due a full service and check over witch I'm slowly making my way round just need a gauge to check the brew pressure

I have also been wandering weather or not a proper e61 from one of fracino other models would be able to be reto fitted to the cherub so I can have a dedicated pressure gauge for brew pressure and also the ability for pressure profiling

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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

On fracino machines the group pressure is usually piped off the manifold. None are attached to the group.

If you can find a dual guage that will fit the hole its a simple thing to so.


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

I thought the water that came out the group was from the hx pipework as there are only 2 pipes in to the back of the group unit and the 2 pipe are hx inlet and hx outlet

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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

But the hx is fed from the manifold - so pressure at the manifold is the same as the head.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

I think the OP might be referring to one of the brew group mounted pressure gauges that screws in?

You probably could put in a group from the Classico but you would also need to adjust the wiring from brew switch and solenoid.

Wouldn't be cheap to buy a new group.


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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Good point @Black Cat Coffee

And yeah wouldn't be the cheapest way.

How about drilling/tapping the top jet nut and tapping a gauge off there? Again not the easy way but a lot cheaper than a new group.

If it goes wrong - its only a nut to change back


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

I think the hx is routed from ether end of the boiler and the manifold just feeds into the boiler so would a gauge between the manifold and boiler still work to get a idea of brew pressure.

Also never thought of drilling and tapping the top nut I don't think the jet would need to be drilled maybe just the top nut drilled and tapped for a e61 gauge

I was playing with the idea if getting hold of a wreked machine with a e61 that would work off the same system. One with out the leaver on the side.

Maybe drilling the top nut is the best idea hear, or eventually selling it for something with a genuine e61. Not a clue what a cherub is worth really

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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

The hx pipes are from either end of the boiler.

The feed for it from the manifold is on the left hand side. The manifold has 2 outlets. One for the hx and other for the boiler. You can tap off anywhere between the manifold and group head to get your reading.

Yeah just the nut would need to be tapped. Tbf its all down to aesthetics. Personally I'd open up the existing hole for the gauge and fit a dual one. Yes theres no going back once the bigger hole is cut - but why would you? That would be the middle option for me.

If you can get 'pretty' fittings to make it look nice tapping the top nut - thats the easy way.

The manifold already has a spare tap off.....


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

Right yeh I get it sorry I didn't quite understand fully before.

I'm not 100% confident in ether drilling a new hole or enlarging the existing hole incase I messed up like you say there's no going back lol.

Where as the top nut if anything goes wrong it's just a new top nut. Plus it would be the easiest method I thinks

I appreciate the feed back

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## lune (Jun 9, 2016)

Sam_d said:


> Also has anyone been able to do anything to reduce the noise of the the pump. I have come to a cherub from a classic and I'm not sure if it's just a bigger pump but it seems rather loud. Not sure if wrapping with some sound deadening insulation would be ok or if this would hurt the pump by possibly over heating?


 I've just drastically reduced the 'pump' noise on my Cherub by going around and isolating a few of the case contact points (little strips of fabric tape). It seems the fit of the case is very sensitive and can resonate quite loudly, the pump isn't actually that noisy - well in my case anyway.


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