# How long is yours?



## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Don't be shy....... maybe tell us how long it takes to complete your espresso making routine.

I have a friend who delights in telling people that "Snake makes a great coffee but the trouble is you have to wait half an hour while he does it! "

Not unnaturally, that hisses me off slightly and so the other day I decided to time my routine, from start to finish.

*Two 5oz flat whites* *- Single Dose grinding - Using a double spouted portafilter.*

NO pre-preparation whatsoever other than a fully warmed up Londinium-R

Milk in bottle in fridge, beans in cupboard in Airscape container etc.

Dispense from HW tap to warm 2 cups

Weigh dose of beans - Single dose grind Monolith Conical - Stir whilst grinding using Londinium distribution tool

Tap level - Tamp (Puqpress) - Load PF - Pre-Infuse - Release lever

Fill milk jug whilst shot pulls - Remove cups from flow on reaching target weight - Steam milk - Clean steam wand - Pour two x 5oz drinks

Wash 2 x jugs and scales drip tray - Use Espazzola group head cleaning tool - wipe drip tray - Things back in cupboards.

Everything tidy and clean.

I timed all four of one days sessions. I tried to be efficient but not rush.

*Three of the four were sub seven minutes.*

The last was 7min 5 seconds as at the last moment, I decided to take a photo.









Does that timing surprise anybody, one way or the other?

There are certainly some classic YouTube videos that show folk taking forever to grind, dose, let alone pull a shot and steam milk.

Lots of folk dismiss owning certain machines or maybe the notion single dosing on the basis of 'I don't have time to mess with that!'

I look forward to maybe hearing some of your thoughts.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

> "Snake makes a great coffee but the trouble is you have to wait half an hour while he does it! "


With friends like those . . . mind you, you do take quite a long time, don't you?!

Just timed my two flat whites tonight. The timer was 2 seconds over 4 minutes (when I got my blindfold off). I haven't put the jug away and my beans were ready weighed in my showy-off caddy. And I did go set my bath off inbetween









Out of interest, does your bacon box catch the water from the Espazziola then?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I am trying to word this so I don't get accused of being insensitive. It's not always about speed . . . if you enjoy the process and the coffee tastes great then sod your mate - give him some out of date NesCaf


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## Chap-a-chino (Mar 31, 2017)

Snakehips said:


> Don't be shy....... maybe tell us how long it takes to complete your espresso making routine.
> 
> I have a friend who delights in telling people that "Snake makes a great coffee but the trouble is you have to wait half an hour while he does it! "
> 
> ...


perhaps you should try blindfolded - MildredM only took 4 mins 33 seconds!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I take off the pf, run 45 mls water, 6 seconds for grinding, not giving a care whether there is 17.2 0r 19 gm of coffee in the basket, level with finger, tamp and pour, steaming as we go...total time less than 60 seconds......if it is the Niche, add another 45 seconds


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Out of interest, does your bacon box catch the water from the Espazziola then?


Don't be ridiculous !


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I take off the pf, run 45 mls water, 6 seconds for grinding, not giving a care whether there is 17.2 0r 19 gm of coffee in the basket, level with finger, tamp and pour, steaming as we go...total time less than 60 seconds......if it is the Niche, add another 45 seconds


Well wheres the fun in that ?









Do you have a woman in to clean up ?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

With the Portaspresso, I can do straight espresso in 7 minutes, and milk drink in around 9


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Seriously, I can't not tidy up and clean down before I drink mine.

Mrs Snakehips snaffles hers and has drunk it before I even start.

If I'm making two lots of drinks I have to force myself not to clean the group and rinse everything after the first two.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Snakehips said:


> Don't be ridiculous !


But doesn't it make your pack-up wet?


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Snakehips said:


> other than a fully warmed up Londinium-R


Shouldn't warming up the machine count as prep as well?

T.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

out of curiosity, I've measured it tonight, 6:43 from zero to doppio









the shot itself (20g in 33g out, 2 bar PI) took 1:40


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

1 min 55 seconds this morning from start to finish, including a quick rummage around the cupboard to decide on beans (single dosing on EK43, beans weighed to 0.1g).


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> 1 min 55 seconds this morning from start to finish, including a quick rummage around the cupboard to decide on beans (single dosing on EK43, beans weighed to 0.1g).


Well make me feel inadequate then, why don't you !


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Approx 2 minutes , morning ritual is to complete coffee before bagel pops from the toaster . As the timer on the scales is normally around 40-50 seconds I didn't think this was too bad .

normally stretching the milk before the shot has finished .

to make 2 drinks I'm guessing I couldn't get any quicker than 4.30mins


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Thecatlinux said:


> Approx 2 minutes , morning ritual is to complete coffee before bagel pops from the toaster . As the timer on the scales is normally around 40-50 seconds I didn't think this was too bad .
> 
> normally stretching the milk before the shot has finished .
> 
> to make 2 drinks I'm guessing I couldn't get any quicker than 4.30mins


^^ That makes me feel better.

Two flat whites this morning, milk steamed after shots pulled and excluding the cleaning and tidying --- 4 minutes 7 seconds.

Given you are also using Londinium and need to pull the cup from the flow once you get desired shot weight do you ever struggle to steam milk in time?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

when I worked on 2 group Linea with Fio 64evo (grinding 18g in 3.8 sec), I could do two flats under 2 minutes, steaming while brewing..it was great fun


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Snakehips said:


> ^^ That makes me feel better.
> 
> Two flat whites this morning, milk steamed after shots pulled and excluding the cleaning and tidying --- 4 minutes 7 seconds.
> 
> Given you are also using Londinium and need to pull the cup from the flow once you get desired shot weight do you ever struggle to steam milk in time?


No.

(Sorry to poke my nose in)!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Stanic said:


> when I worked on 2 group Linea with Fio 64evo (grinding 18g in 3.8 sec), I could do two flats under 2 minutes, steaming while brewing..it was great fun


2 in 2 minutes ! Stan, just remember that I'm only an amateur and I've got a bus pass !!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MildredM said:


> No.
> 
> (Sorry to poke my nose in)!


Who asked you ?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> 2 in 2 minutes ! Stan, just remember that I'm only an amateur and I've got a bus pass !!


no worries I'm in leisure mode too these days..sort of lol


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

I just successfully steamed whilst the shot was pulling but it was a bit tight.

I reckon my GP would prefer me to keep the two things separate.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Snakehips said:


> I just successfully steamed whilst the shot was pulling but it was a bit tight.
> 
> I reckon my GP would prefer me to keep the two things separate.


Why do you think baristas have such toned butt...s


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

The Sage DTP was turned on a while ago.

Process:

* weigh the beans (for the Niche)

* warm up the portafilter with running water through the empty basket and start the grinder

* stop the machine and dry the portafilter

* find the pf funnel, invert the grind cup and stir the grinds

* tap, distribute the grinds and tamp

* start the brew and get the cold milk into the milk jug

* purge the steam wand

* froth and pour some shaky latte art

* clean the wand, rinse the jug

Still no idea why it's 5min 15s. I would have predicted it to be slower, but wished it was faster. I was also stumbling in the kitchen a fair bit!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

PPapa said:


> The Sage DTP was turned on a while ago.
> 
> Process:
> 
> ...


5min 15 sec. That's more like it !!! And that was for only the one drink.









Almost makes me feel positively swift.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> 5min 15 sec. That's more like it !!! And that was for only the one drink.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, I used the Feldgrind for espresso for a while. That was... slow!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Why do you think baristas have such toned butt...s


ahaha so very true


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Snakehips said:


> Given you are also using Londinium and need to pull the cup from the flow once you get desired shot weight do you ever struggle to steam milk in time?


I know exactly what you mean and sometimes you will find you've got your hands full , but I just place the jug on the drip tray with the tip firmly sunk , pull my cup and scales out of the way .sounds difficult buts it's actually quite easy .


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

If I remember to put a small block of wood between the scales can do the above on both levers whilst steaming (but only using one steam wand as no desire to try and work out how to move two Acaia pearls with cups and little drop pots with hot liquid, eek! whilst steaming on both sides, fraught with danger!)

On a more serious note from purge of water to beans weighed, ground, distied, Puqpressed to poured and steamed milk into cups about 4m40 but that is for 2 cups and if tidy up included then about 6m for jugs cleaned, dried put back, espazzolad and L2 Microfibred off with everything ready to go again.

John


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

Question here, my understanding is that "milk keeps, while espresso doesn't" so if making a milk based drink I always prep my coffee and PF, then steam the milk, pull the shot last, then prep the drink. All it takes is a few taps and swirls of the milk jug while you pull the shot.

Does nobody else make thier like this?


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## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

With cleanup and backflush (water only) it takes me 10 minutes.

This includes writing down timing, grind setting and input/output weight.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

ATZ said:


> Question here, my understanding is that "milk keeps, while espresso doesn't" so if making a milk based drink I always prep my coffee and PF, then steam the milk, pull the shot last, then prep the drink. All it takes is a few taps and swirls of the milk jug while you pull the shot.
> 
> Does nobody else make thier like this?


Both are probably good for about a minute.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Any excuse for a video









2.43


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

MildredM said:


> Any excuse for a video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really enjoyed that M, thanks for sharing. 2 questions about your gadgets:

What did you use to stir your grind in the PF was it home made?

And

whats the auto tamper thing you were using to the left of the grinder.

Given you last purchase may I assume it may be expensive


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Paul K said:


> Really enjoyed that M, thanks for sharing. 2 questions about your gadgets:
> 
> What did you use to stir your grind in the PF was it home made?
> 
> ...


The stirrer is from Londinium. Wenge wood, matches the machine









OCD distributor tool. There are cheaper versions.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

@Paul K

Maybe check this thread out for the londinium distribution tool. HERE


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Any excuse for a video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not exactly comparing pumpkins with pumpkins but I reckon at 2.43 for one drink and cutting a few corners, we are about on a par ?


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MildredM said:


> OCD distributor tool. There are cheaper versions.
> 
> 
> 
> > I think Paul may be referring to the PUQpress M ?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Oh yes!

It's a PuqPress


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Snakehips said:


> Not exactly comparing pumpkins with pumpkins but I reckon at 2.43 for one drink and cutting a few corners, we are about on a par ?


Not exactly being pedantic (and your remark was quite cutting, I'd say) but I am doing the same as you into ONE cup rather than TWO cups . . . I can use the twin spout p/f and produce 2 and add, say, 10 seconds on for 2 pours. Just saying . . . like . . . .


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

I'm sure I've seen you clean the chute on the monolith in previous workflows though Mildred. It's that competitive streak coming out in you, cutting corners to achieve a fast time!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Jollybean said:


> I'm sure I've seen you clean the chute on the monolith in previous workflows though Mildred. It's that competitive streak coming out in you, cutting corners to achieve a fast time!


Haha! Well spotted. When I looked the other day I realised a tap knocked any stray grounds out so now I don't remove it. Probably different on the coni - which as We all know grinds in a few seconds. Just saying!!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Any excuse for a video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't rinse the pitcher!!!

Good choice of music.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

PPapa said:


> Didn't rinse the pitcher!!! Qe
> 
> Yes!! Add 5 seconds
> 
> ...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MildredM said:


> PPapa said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't rinse the pitcher!!! Qe
> ...


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## bubbles (Sep 23, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> I take off the pf, run 45 mls water, 6 seconds for grinding, not giving a care whether there is 17.2 0r 19 gm of coffee in the basket, level with finger, tamp and pour, steaming as we go...total time less than 60 seconds......if it is the Niche, add another 45 seconds


#dfk41 Can I ask a couple of questions? sorry if I sound like asking stupid questions, still learning...............

if you don't weigh the exact the amount of grams of coffee how to you judge your final extraction, ie I know say if you put 18g of coffee in the portafilter you should aim for 36g weight total shot extraction, or do you measure by volume just fill the double basket in the portafilter and level it off tamp and then pour 60ml of coffee final extraction. Or do you just time say it pour a double in 30 seconds?

sorry for asking annoying questions still trying to learn what is the right way to make espresso, see is I extract by volume rather weight it ends up a much watery shot like 14g coffee 60ml volume shot weighs about 70g and with the 1:2 ratio that shot should weigh about 28g so probably the volume of a single shot. which way is correct?


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Snakehips said:


> MildredM said:
> 
> 
> > OCD distributor tool. There are cheaper versions.
> ...


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

PPapa said:


> MildredM said:
> 
> 
> > Who's the composer? Might be a good time to update my library after finding Sophie Hutchings which I have been enjoying thoroughly.
> ...


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## bubbles (Sep 23, 2018)

bubbles said:


> #dfk41 Can I ask a couple of questions? sorry if I sound like asking stupid questions, still learning...............
> 
> if you don't weigh the exact the amount of grams of coffee how to you judge your final extraction, ie I know say if you put 18g of coffee in the portafilter you should aim for 36g weight total shot extraction, or do you measure by volume just fill the double basket in the portafilter and level it off tamp and then pour 60ml of coffee final extraction. Or do you just time say it pour a double in 30 seconds?
> 
> sorry for asking annoying questions still trying to learn what is the right way to make espresso, see is I extract by volume rather weight it ends up a much watery shot like 14g coffee 60ml volume shot weighs about 70g and with the 1:2 ratio that shot should weigh about 28g so probably the volume of a single shot. which way is correct?


can anybody point me the right direction with this please?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

bubbles said:


> #dfk41 Can I ask a couple of questions? sorry if I sound like asking stupid questions, still learning...............
> 
> if you don't weigh the exact the amount of grams of coffee how to you judge your final extraction, ie I know say if you put 18g of coffee in the portafilter you should aim for 36g weight total shot extraction, or do you measure by volume just fill the double basket in the portafilter and level it off tamp and then pour 60ml of coffee final extraction. Or do you just time say it pour a double in 30 seconds?
> 
> sorry for asking annoying questions still trying to learn what is the right way to make espresso, see is I extract by volume rather weight it ends up a much watery shot like 14g coffee 60ml volume shot weighs about 70g and with the 1:2 ratio that shot should weigh about 28g so probably the volume of a single shot. which way is correct?


Mine are 15g of beans with around 34g (depending on beans and what I am after) in the cup here. I think maybe @dfk41 doesn't weigh because he is happy he can judge 18g beans, and also how much he wants in the cup, and it suits him that way. It would be difficult if someone wanted advice on their shot without some figures though. Hope that helps.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

bubbles said:


> #dfk41 Can I ask a couple of questions? sorry if I sound like asking stupid questions, still learning...............
> 
> if you don't weigh the exact the amount of grams of coffee how to you judge your final extraction, ie I know say if you put 18g of coffee in the portafilter you should aim for 36g weight total shot extraction, or do you measure by volume just fill the double basket in the portafilter and level it off tamp and then pour 60ml of coffee final extraction. Or do you just time say it pour a double in 30 seconds?
> 
> sorry for asking annoying questions still trying to learn what is the right way to make espresso, see is I extract by volume rather weight it ends up a much watery shot like 14g coffee 60ml volume shot weighs about 70g and with the 1:2 ratio that shot should weigh about 28g so probably the volume of a single shot. which way is correct?


Not a stupid question at all.....in my humble, there is so much bollocks talked about coffee......perhaps the odd super taster might be able to detect the difference between 17.2 and 17.5 gms butI cannot. So, at what point can a mere human actually make this taste difference? I make 2 sorts of coffee....sinkers and drinkers. I put milk in quite often which hides a multitude of sins anyway. I enjoy Americans from time to time which is always good to do as you can actually taste the coffee. So, to sum up, from the dfk school of coffee, it matters not whether there is a gram to little or too much. I tend to extract at dry weight plus 60% which gives a shorter, stronger drink and as long as it tastes ok, I could not give a monkeys flying whatever the word is, about anything else!


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## bubbles (Sep 23, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> Not a stupid question at all.....in my humble, there is so much bollocks talked about coffee......perhaps the odd super taster might be able to detect the difference between 17.2 and 17.5 gms butI cannot. So, at what point can a mere human actually make this taste difference? I make 2 sorts of coffee....sinkers and drinkers. I put milk in quite often which hides a multitude of sins anyway. I enjoy Americans from time to time which is always good to do as you can actually taste the coffee. So, to sum up, from the dfk school of coffee, it matters not whether there is a gram to little or too much. I tend to extract at dry weight plus 60% which gives a shorter, stronger drink and as long as it tastes ok, I could not give a monkeys flying whatever the word is, about anything else!


Thankyou


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Not a stupid question at all.....in my humble, there is so much bollocks talked about coffee......perhaps the odd super taster might be able to detect the difference between 17.2 and 17.5 gms butI cannot. So, at what point can a mere human actually make this taste difference? I make 2 sorts of coffee....sinkers and drinkers. I put milk in quite often which hides a multitude of sins anyway. I enjoy Americans from time to time which is always good to do as you can actually taste the coffee. So, to sum up, from the dfk school of coffee, it matters not whether there is a gram to little or too much. I tend to extract at dry weight plus 60% which gives a shorter, stronger drink and as long as it tastes ok, I could not give a monkeys flying whatever the word is, about anything else!


But you do weigh the dose? it just doesn't matter what the weight is?


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## brabzzz (Apr 14, 2017)

I seem to recall he's grinding by time on a mythos, so there's some error margin?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> But you do weigh the dose? it just doesn't matter what the weight is?


Not using a Mythos now, but a Compak E5. When setting up the timer, then I grind to whatever time I have it set to. I then quite often blip it for 0.5 of a second if it looks like it could do with a little more. Not scientific but the coffee is for me. Maybe I have high tolerance levels!


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## mark8805 (Oct 17, 2014)

Love all these answers, I have a Profitec 600 Dual Boiler, never timed myself and never will, as long as what you get as an end result is really really good who cares how quickly you do it, I still pull the shot set it aside then steam the milk, now I can feel all you Dual Boiler owners have your sharp intakes of breath!! All I want is the best cup of coffee I can achieve using the tools I have in front of me.

One other thing I do is stir the initial pour into a V60 dripper for 15 secs, I think it brews a much better cup of coffee, there is no perfect way of doing it, if it works for you then you use your method to produce the best cup of coffee you can.

Maybe see some of you at The Manchester Coffee Festival next Sat/Sun.


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## Muahahaha (Dec 20, 2016)

Id be the same, never timed it. If I had to guess I would say 2 minutes for an americano and double that for milk based drinks. Important thing is it tastes nice, not how long it takes.


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## cambosheff (Jan 1, 2016)

MildredM said:


> Any excuse for a video
> 
> 
> 
> ...


On the next video M, can we have a headset on with a talk through of the flavours you're hoping to achieve, followed by the hand in the air and 'time' to finish in a WBC style?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

cambosheff said:


> On the next video M, can we have a headset on with a talk through of the flavours you're hoping to achieve, followed by the hand in the air and 'time' to finish in a WBC style?


I can hear it now - 'I'm hoping for something coffee-flavoured, rather than dishcloth . . . In fact, I am just hoping for coffee. In the cup!'

On the next video


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

PPapa said:


> The Sage DTP was turned on a while ago.
> 
> Process:
> 
> ...


Wow, didn't expect such a difference with Niche/L-R!










Granted, I have pre-weighted bean tubes now, but it's a lot of less faff without pre-heating and Niche cup sitting nicely in the basket.

Got some friends coming over today, so thought I will see how I get on under a bit of pressure.


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