# New to all this



## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

First of all, hi everybody.

As someone who has spent a lot of time working in Genoa, Italy, i have become mildly addicted to espresso.

I purchased late last year a Delonghi machine (1/2 price) which was ok, it had the pressurized PF but made passable espresso, it was particularly good with pods (picture attached) which i use for speed/ease sake when running late in the mornings (most mornings).

After scouring these forums, i returned the Delonghi for a refund (it had developed a boiler fault) and purchased a shiny Gaggia Classic.

I sprayed my walls a couple of times working out how to use it (it came with crema perfecta baskets) but again it produced passable espresso.

I have since purchased standard baskets and i am perfecting the art of making 1/2 way decent espresso using a decent tamper and digital scales, although i am only using supermarket pre ground (Carte Noire) coffee at the moment.

Now comes the questions.

What is the mysterious black part shown in the picture.

Is there anyway to get 1/2 way decent espresso from the pods i have been using?

I have tried them in the original, crema perfecta baskets as Gaggia recommend, i get dirty brown looking water with next to no taste, using the un-pressurised basket i get a shot of black strong coffee but with no crema, has anybody had any success with these pods (they are not hard like "proper" ese pods more like tea bags with coffe grounds in).

  

  

  

Many thanks

Darren


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

sharpcroft said:


> What is the mysterious black part shown in the picture.
> 
> Darren


I was wondering what the black piece of plastic was for too!


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

The plastic piece fits under the perforated metal sheet on top on the drip tray. It helps stop splashing and stabilises the water when it's full.

You won't get great espresso from those pods. You could try emptying two of them into a double basket... if the grind is right.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

As above. The plastic bit can go in the bin. It's a very odd after thought I think.

You'll struggle to get decent coffee from either supermarket pre-ground or those pods. The coffee will simply be too old and too coarse. As other posts have suggested on here, if you HAVE to buy supermarket then stick to the pressurised baskets as they're your best bets for something half decent.

Of course the real answer is, buy a decent grinder and some fresh coffee online. It's the only way you'll get the Classic to release it's full potential









Welcome


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Fresh roasted beans (i.e. within the last few weeks) , freshly ground. Ideally you need a burr grinder but you could try some pre ground from one of the popular suppliers folk on here use.

Before I understood this concept I used Illy pre ground (not in pod form) which is what most Italians seem to use. I did achieve some ok shots with it and got some crema but nothing like the standard I get now.


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

Any recommendation for a cheap grinder (and by cheap i mean less than 3 figures) hand powered is fine for now?

How long do fresh roasted beans last compared to fresh ground "grounds"?


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Porlex Mini from Cream Supplies. £30 and it's great. Otherwise there's the similar Kyocera. I've heard mixed reports about the Hario Mini.

I also have a vintage Zassenhaus which is fantastic, but it's hit-or-miss whether an old one will be espresso-suitable. Apparently the new ones are made in Asia and aren't as good.


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

rodabod said:


> Porlex Mini from Cream Supplies. £30 and it's great. Otherwise there's the similar Kyocera. I've heard mixed reports about the Hario Mini.
> 
> I also have a vintage Zassenhaus which is fantastic, but it's hit-or-miss whether an old one will be espresso-suitable. Apparently the new ones are made in Asia and aren't as good.


From the cream supply web site "Grind rate is 100 turns for 14grams - one good strong coffee." eeeeeek i'll look like popeye lol


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Heh. Well, it'll probably take you about 50s do do. I don't count. The Zass is faster. I'd go electric for four doubles or more a day maybe, but you're looking at £80+ for a second-hand electric.


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

The new Zassenhaus's look like they go for £80 ish, is there a 1/2 way decent electric for that price maybe?

Also, back to a previous question, how long do fresh ground "grounds" stay drinkable compared to fresh roasted beans?

Thanks


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

sharpcroft said:


> Any recommendation for a cheap grinder (and by cheap i mean less than 3 figures) hand powered is fine for now?
> 
> How long do fresh roasted beans last compared to fresh ground "grounds"?


+1 for the porlex handgrinder but if you don't fancy hand grinding then I'd suggest looking on ebay. I don't think you'll find anything new that'll do the job for espresso under £100 and I think you'll end up wanting to upgrade quickly. The MC2 is not that much over yourt budget £130 ish I think and that is very popular. It would be worth hanging on and saving up for that rather than buying a cheap alternative that wont do a decent job.

In answer to your other question people report being able to taste a difference in the freshness of coffee within 15 minutes of grinding it. Buying pre ground from a 'same day' roaster is likely going to taste a lot better than anything you get from the supermarket which is likely months old and in my opinion stale. But the difference between that and grinding yourself and brewing immediately is going to be huge. In addition you can get the grind exactly right for your tamping pressure/basket and machine. In other words if you're serious just get a half decent burr grinder and you wont look back, lol!

Pretty much everyone on here has come on asking similar questions (I did) and the end result is always the same, no money but coffee heaven


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

sharpcroft said:


> back to a previous question, how long do fresh ground "grounds" stay drinkable compared to fresh roasted beans?


If the grounds were densely packed in a sealed bag/container like I had once, then I'd honestly say a few days without great depreciation in quality. Beans are probably more like 2-3 weeks, again depending.

The issue is the increased surface area which you want to keep away from fresh air.


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for all the advise. I think i may buy a bag of pre-ground from a recommended supplier on here to test, then convince the OH that a grinder is a must









I keep my grinds in a "kilner" style jar in the fridge at the moment, i assume that is correct/

Testing this morning i filled the double basket to the brim, leveled with the back of a knife and then tamped with a 58mm tamper (from cream Supplies) http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/motta-tamper-flat-base-58mm-wooden-handle-/prod_1817.html?category= the pressure i exerted allowed me to tamp to almost the lip on the tamper (a lot of pressure on my behalf), does sound about right?

From pressing the brew switch to first signs of a pour was about 5 seconds, full extraction , which i guessed was when the flowing espresso changed colour from black to beige took about ~20s (double-ish, 3floz measured in a jug) and i ended with an ok (cheap grounds) espresso with a nice thick crema, much better than anything produced from the "crema perfecta" basket









So all in all i think im getting there









Darren


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## suferick (Jul 19, 2011)

Seems like you're making good progress. I found a massive improvement when I started using a decent. grinder


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

Just ordered a Porlex Mini









1 question, if i grind enough for say 4 to 6 doubles, will it stay fresh enough in the base of the grinder or a small airtight tub in the fridge for 24/48 hours?


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

sharpcroft said:


> Just ordered a Porlex Mini
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It won't go bad or anything and will certainly taste fine but once you've sampled really fresh coffee you will be able to tell the difference and no doubt become a complete snob like the rest of us









I got some dirty looks recently when I suggested the espresso my friend had made me from Illy pre ground wouldn't be fit for my dog (and I haven't even got a dog).


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

LOL well if i think pods are passable then i guess i've answered my own question, overnight in the fridge will be fine


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't agree with the fridge but you can always experiment.

Grind some and put it in the fridge (shudder) for 48 hours. Then after that time grind some fresh and make 2 espressos. One with old and one with new. If you can't tell the difference then hey presto, you've found your ideal way to store it. If the fridge stored stuff tastes bad then you know not to do it again. It's all down to your taste at the end of the day. What might taste fine for you might taste horrible for someone else


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

I only mention the fridge because i have read that was the best place to keep grounds in a sealed bag?


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Where'd you read that?

It's also quite a wet place with lots of other strong flavours knocking about. Your coffee will suck all that up and taste bad. Hence a lot of people just keep it in an airtight container in a dark cupboard. It's up to you, try both and see which is best.


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

Ah, just done some googling (other search engines are available







)and it appears its an urban myth for "non experts" lol although i have just read that you can freeze fresh ground to keep it for extended periods but it must me defrosted and stored in a cool dark place before use.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

The fridge isn't a humid place - in fact it dries food (and your coffee) out. And my guess is that if you left one dose of coffee in the fridge overnight and used it the next day, the water would run through super fast and you'd have little crema (the oils would dry out too).

Best storage is a vacuum pot. It's the air and cold which make coffee deteriorate quickly.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Sorry, I got that wrong but the cold will make water vapour condense on the container when ever you remove it. Which isn't good either.


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## sharpcroft (Jan 30, 2012)

*Runs and retrieves grounds from fridge


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