# Trends of taste.



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Hmmmm....... I am thinking we can vary the shot and variables for the shot as much as we like , but ultimately isn't it the roasters who will dictate the trend/trends and flavour in the cup?

For someone new to extracting the coffee for them self, I believe that I am only at one end of the scale, which I have found to be close to acidic sweet and fruity .and to alter extraction to get a darker more coffee flavour maybe near on impossible with the majority of light to medium roasts.

I appreciate weighing shots and grinds to get some sort of constant to work from. but ultimately if the beans (roast) you are using are not capable of giving you the end result you are on a hiding to nothing.

So is the trend for espresso at one end of the scale? Or am I missing something?

i found talking about dark roast gets a Tut tut. But don't know why ? (Other than people believe this is a way to hide poor quality beans)

.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Have you seen the darker side of life group?

Anecdotally the most recommended roaster here - Rave . I'd hardly call them third wave Light roasters.

There are a number people of this forum who prefer something darker and roasters who supply them with their fix .its certainly not frowned upon here . If anything they are more vocal than the lighter side







, and it some times feel that the people on the lighter side are in the minority ........

me I'm more of a medium roast guy ...


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

...and I'm probably at either end of the spectrum. I like both the subtle flavours from light roasts and the smack in the face bold flavours from a dark roast, although I find the dark roasts only generally work at espresso, the lighter roasts work across brew and espresso


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> Hmmmm....... I am thinking we can vary the shot and variables for the shot as much as we like , but ultimately isn't it the roasters who will dictate the trend/trends and flavour in the cup?
> 
> For someone new to extracting the coffee for them self, I believe that I am only at one end of the scale, which I have found to be close to acidic sweet and fruity .and to alter extraction to get a darker more coffee flavour maybe near on impossible with the majority of light to medium roasts.
> 
> I appreciate weighing shots and grinds to get some sort of constant to work from. but ultimately if the beans (roast) you are using are not capable of giving you the end result you are on a hiding to nothing.


The beans may be roasted lighter than other beans, but if they are nominally roasted, you should be able to push past overriding acidity. If you can't do it at a short ratio, try longer drinks (accepting that the shot may be thinner).

The roasters roast, assuming that other folk are getting ball-park extractions from the same beans, they have done their job...you extract the coffee, you affect the flavour balance in doing this.

If on the other hand you are saying that the shots are sweet & balanced, not acidic/sharp & you want more caramels/choc/nuts etc., then maybe, yeah, try darker roasts.

Whatever the style, the target is the same, dissolve ~1/5 of the coffee in your portafilter into brown drink.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Personally I have found the lighter roasts much more difficult to get a good shot from, and as such just opt for the easier consistency of the medium roasts.


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

If you want to try some much darker roasts, take a look at Coffee Compass. The Malabar Hit and Jampit Hit are pretty dark and, if you want to try something seriously dark I'd recommend the Mocha Italia - I love it


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have you seen the darker side of life group?
> 
> Anecdotally the most recommended roaster here - Rave . I'd hardly call them third wave Light roasters.
> 
> ...


Just finished tonight my has bean beans and hitting my stash from smokey barn tomorrow, guessing Rave may be in my sights now for my next bean order.

It just seems the people I have come into contact in the real world lately are into the lighter side of things , And most of what I am reading is based around third wave (not completely sure i understand what that is)

I wasn't necessarily referring to the forum.

Like everything my geographical location doesn't help, it's all water in one direction and a coffee desert the other.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I agree with MrBoots, I think there are more darkside members than light here these days! Consider egtting one of the guest slots on the next DSOL and if you like it join in!

Personally I rarely like anything that isn't medium-light but it's all personal preference isn't it.

Next time you are in Norwich try a coffee at The Window (HasBean) and then walk further down the road to Dandy Horse (Compass), see what you prefer.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

MWJB said:


> The beans may be roasted lighter than other beans, but if they are nominally roasted, you should be able to push past overriding acidity. If you can't do it at a short ratio, try longer drinks (accepting that the shot may be thinner).
> 
> The roasters roast, assuming that other folk are getting ball-park extractions from the same beans, they have done their job...you extract the coffee, you affect the flavour balance in doing this.
> 
> ...


Mark it's the case though that some coffees even when nominally extracted are just more acidic than others eg: http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/america/products/bolivia-san-jose-constancio-aruqipa-caturra-washed

It's cupping notes rate it as an 8 for acidity on a 1-8 scale and the descriptors basically say it's all about citrus and will tingle on the tongue. I'm sorry but that's acidic and will be too much for some people. It isn't acidic because it's roasted badly , or because it's extracted badly it's simply acidic. Now it may be that I am more sensitive to acidity than others, e.g. those Haribo Tangfastics are too acidic for me, as their sour note is provided by citric acid, but too a lot of people acidity will present itself too them as sour notes, the coffee I linked may rate highly for sweetness too, bit it rates higher on acidity and it's this that a lot of people mean when they mention acidity not acidity due to imperfect roasts or extractions, but acidity that is there because it's meant to be there. We all know that how we perceive taste differs from person to person, but as I previously said some people will find some coffees, however well roasted and extracted simply too acidic for their palate, and to simply state that if they find it too acidic means that they're doing it wrong simply isn't the case.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It's difficult for a roaster. They roast a coffee that may be dealt with in so many ways. Drip, carafe, fine grind coarse grind, HX machines, Thermally Stable dual boilers, cold extraction, steampunk machines, different shot volumes etc..

it's hard to please all of the people all of the time....so presumably there's a fair bit of compromise going on, to deliver a roast that allows most users to get a decent result...rather than concentrating on a few getting a superlative result. This is where I suspect barista comps, roasting comps and home roasting all come into their own.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Charliej said:


> Mark it's the case though that some coffees even when nominally extracted are just more acidic than others eg: http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/america/products/bolivia-san-jose-constancio-aruqipa-caturra-washed
> 
> It's cupping notes rate it as an 8 for acidity on a 1-8 scale and the descriptors basically say it's all about citrus and will tingle on the tongue. I'm sorry but that's acidic and will be too much for some people. It isn't acidic because it's roasted badly , or because it's extracted badly it's simply acidic. Now it may be that I am more sensitive to acidity than others, e.g. those Haribo Tangfastics are too acidic for me, as their sour note is provided by citric acid, but too a lot of people acidity will present itself too them as sour notes, the coffee I linked may rate highly for sweetness too, bit it rates higher on acidity and it's this that a lot of people mean when they mention acidity not acidity due to imperfect roasts or extractions, but acidity that is there because it's meant to be there. We all know that how we perceive taste differs from person to person, but as I previously said some people will find some coffees, however well roasted and extracted simply too acidic for their palate, and to simply state that if they find it too acidic means that they're doing it wrong simply isn't the case.


Charlie, sure, coffees have differing levels of "acidity" but acidity is an attribute, like the flavour of ripe fruit (peaches, plums) - if the coffee is "acidic" (a different thing), this is a fault (a chore to drink, perhaps likely to cause acid reflux) . Anything that tastes like a sour sweet is probably underextracted (some folk will like this, but not most). I drink HasBean pretty much every day (as do my workmates, unaware that they do - not one has ever commented on sourness/acidic coffee..."cowpats", yes...affectionate term for naturals ;-), but not sour/acid), I don't drink acidic coffee (well, very rarely, then I fix it). What most people call "acidic" coffee, is underextracted coffee. Probably most of the time it very much is the case.

If a coffee does not allow you to hit a nominal extraction (with good technique) then it's not well roasted.

As you say, some folk are more susceptible to acid, and may prefer to avoid more acidic coffee...but you must be sure that you are nominally extracting the coffee before you start making statements regarding where the acid is being introduced to the beverage.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Mark that's splitting hairs semantically if the coffee has the attribute of acidity then it will taste acidic i.e citric acid added to sweets will impart a sour and acidic taste. I've had plenty of coffee that has bean well roasted and well extracted, and call it what you will the level of the acid taste in the brew was too much for me.

Cf Oxford Dictionary online version:

acidic

Line breaks: acid¦ic

Pronunciation: /əˈsɪdɪk /

ADJECTIVE

1Having the properties of an acid, or containing acid; having a pH below 7:

a cocktail of acidic pollutants

Often contrasted with alkaline and basic.

MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES

2Sharp-tasting or sour:

acidic wine

MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES

2.1(Of a person's remarks or tone) bitter or cutting:

the occasional acidic comment

MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES

2.2(Of a colour) strikingly intense or bright:

an acidic yellow

MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES

3 Geology (Of rock, especially lava) relatively rich in silica:

acidic granite batholiths

It boils down to the fact that whatever you wish to call some coffee tastes acidic because it is meant to taste that way, myself and many others don't like that. There is nothing wrong with our palates, or the way we make coffee, we simply don't like it end of story. This i why I would never buy coffee like that I linked to from Hasbean, I know that however well I extract it I won't like the taste in the cup.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

All coffee is acidic roasted beans being between ph 4.8 & 6 ish


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

aaronb said:


> I agree with MrBoots, I think there are more darkside members than light here these days! Consider egtting one of the guest slots on the next DSOL and if you like it join in!
> 
> Personally I rarely like anything that isn't medium-light but it's all personal preference isn't it.
> 
> Next time you are in Norwich try a coffee at The Window (HasBean) and then walk further down the road to Dandy Horse (Compass), see what you prefer.


done the window but not the dandy horse


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Charlie, no, it's not splitting hairs. Sour & acidic (gooseberries, rhubarb, sharp, tart, sour fizzy sweets) is not the way coffee is supposed to taste. If you are susceptible to acid...that's fine, coffee is to be enjoyed, not a punishment. if you have had very acidic coffee, it was not well extracted. To write off a whole roaster's portfolio is nuts...nuts, choc & leather... well past 2nd crack? ;-) Especially a roaster with HasBean's range.

The beans contain acids, loads of them, acids are at the core of the beverage, a good extraction balances them. You assume you won't like coffees with a high acidity score, even if they are well extracted...if you "knew" it you would offer some reference.

I'm not saying that coffees with acidity are always presented well, nor that you're imagining anything, or wrong in your preference - I'm saying don't shoot the roaster because of the guy who snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in the last 30seconds of those beans existence.

If objectionable sourness/acidity follows a specific yield, or brew method, then it's not the coffee's fault, it's something that was caused by the way the coffee & water came into contact & that can be adjusted.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

With so many roasters out there it is hard to identify who is holding the coffee that I want to drink in my cup , my original post was" is the trend at the moment towards the lighter end of the spectrum ? "

I guess on reflection what I should have asked was what coffee/roast is in the middle of the spectrum and can be used for a reference ? So one can formulate in which direction my palette chooses to go.

Not being able to taste the different offerings and relying on online orders may be an expensive way of finding things out i guess,but a Reference (middle ground) is going to make asking questions and choices, based on answers a lot easier.

Perhaps it's my destiny to try lots of different offerings.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Thecatlinux said:


> i found talking about dark roast gets a Tut tut. But don't know why ? (Other than people believe this is a way to hide poor quality beans)
> 
> .


Over the last two or three years there's been a move towards dark beans being more popular with the regular posters than light roasts so the demographic on this particular forum is definitely more skewed towards the dark side these days. I suppose though it does depend on what you call dark roasts. If you mean the sort of roasts that are almost black and have more than a minimal amount of oil on them when freshly roasted, then you're not going to find a lot of chat on any specialised forum because it usually means the beans are past the point where much character or individuality can be got out of them.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you're talking about what the trendy shops are doing i'd say light.

There's a spread on here with fans of both but dark probably edges it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

My advice try lots of beans and lots of roasters, its more fun that way....


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> My advice try lots of beans and lots of roasters, its more fun that way....


Agreed. I went on a bit of a mission trying loads of roasters about 12 months ago. I was going to work my way through the full list of roasters on this website but it was getting very expensive buying small amounts from each and when I had a bit of an argument with Garraways over some stale beans that they were adamant would stay fresh for 12 months from roast despite the website boasting of how fresh their beans are and how important it is in the cup, I knocked it on the head. I did, however, learn a lot about what I like and don't like.


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