# Grinder thoughts



## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

I have my QM Silvano and I'm very happy with its performance. The Mignon is doing a fine job at the moment but I'm always looking for the next future upgrade!

I would love to buy a EK43 and call it a day however budget restraints stop me.

What grinders are there that meet the following requirements under £700(new or used)?


Small-ish footprint

On demand

Low retention

Excellent for espresso

Electric


I know a lot of people bought a Zenith, how do they compare to the Mignon? The Mazzer Major also catches my eye, is this much of a jump from a SJ?

Thanks again for all your help


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

ahirsty said:


> I have my QM Silvano and I'm very happy with its performance. The Mignon is doing a fine job at the moment but I'm always looking for the next future upgrade!
> 
> I would love to buy a EK43 and call it a day however budget restraints stop me.
> 
> ...


Mazzer Major would be a huge jump from the Mignon, but would not even come close to fulfilling the "small footprint" criteria. But if you're on your way to an EK43 in the future then you may as well forego a small footprint stipulation


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Would be helpful to define small footprint , a major isn't small but seems to be on your list for example .


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

Its more of a aesthetics issue than a space issue, it needs to be approved before it gets through the door. I have about 300mm width to work with. For example I know the Mythos is highly regarded but I can't really hide it!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Without the hopper majors and royals aren't that big. Relatively.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

A Mythos isn't actually that huge in the flesh and would fit easily into the width you have available, but what height do you have available to you and depth? A Mythos is really the only grinder that fulfills all of your requirements bar the small footprint one and is within your budget they have 1g or less retention typically.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ahirsty said:


> Its more of a aesthetics issue than a space issue, it needs to be approved before it gets through the door. I have about 300mm width to work with. For example I know the Mythos is highly regarded but I can't really hide it!


It ain't small no ..beauty isn in the eye of the beholder

I loved the grinds from my mythos but didn't like the " look " of it myself

Yep unless you have stealth mode engaged or are able to hypnotize the other half there is no hiding a mythos ....

K30s are marmite grinders , in second hand price range only , small footprint , 65 mm burrs , but good ditting burrs . I liked mine just wanted to try some thing else .

Burrs size the royal/ major would smack it's tiny rounded grinder behind though


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Surprise ( not ) the mythos is the ONLY grinder that meets OPs requirements lol

They ain't small by any stretch of the imagination

Perhaps k10 pro barista ( second hand ) might be a consideration


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

What about the RR55?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Surprise ( not ) the mythos is the ONLY grinder that meets OPs requirements lol
> 
> They ain't small by any stretch of the imagination
> 
> Perhaps k10 pro barista ( second hand ) might be a consideration


IF it was an on demand grinder yes.

Dylan as good as the RR55 is and it would give a K30 a good run for it's money but the Mythos, Royal and Major are in a totally different league


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

How do the major and the mythos compare in grind quality and retention?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Is the OP going to single dose ? I


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ahirsty said:


> How do the major and the mythos compare in grind quality and retention?


Ask Callum or coffeechap would be my advise


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

My guess would be 1-2 drinks at a time twice a day.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To be fair most of the royal are dosers you see round here


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Charliej said:


> IF it was an on demand grinder yes.
> 
> Dylan as good as the RR55 is and it would give a K30 a good run for it's money but the Mythos, Royal and Major are in a totally different league


Indeed, and if the OP can get past the wife test with these grinders then they are the obvious choice, but they are all very large. The RR55 seems to fit ahirsty's criteria if the bigger grinders are too much for his kitchen.

Saying that I have not seen the RR55 in the flesh to comment on its size, but I assume its more Mazzer SJ kind of size?


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## Blackstone (Aug 5, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Indeed, and if the OP can get past the wife test with these grinders then they are the obvious choice, but they are all very large. The RR55 seems to fit ahirsty's criteria if the bigger grinders are too much for his kitchen.
> 
> Saying that I have not seen the RR55 in the flesh to comment on its size, but I assume its more Mazzer SJ kind of size?


similar height and width but 100mm deeper. i have been holding out for one of these for about 4 months and still nothing


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Again royal and majors you see most of will be on timers with a doser, not on demand ... If your making 1-2 drinks a day and you wana single dose then again if found a k10 pro barista can be modified for little retention and delivers in the cup. Ask Xpenno he has one .

An Auberins timer royal would be great in the cup but would be dosered at those prices .

Coffeechap and Callum have had out on the benches so can give you some direct comparison between the mazzers and the mythos .

For one to two drink a day only why on demand and electric ?


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Again royal and majors you see most of will be on timers with a doser, not on demand ... If your making 1-2 drinks a day and you wana single dose then again if found a k10 pro barista can be modified for little retention and delivers in the cup. Ask Xpenno he has one .
> 
> An Auberins timer royal would be great in the cup but would be dosered at those prices .
> 
> ...


I have only ever used on demand so personal preference really. I thought they were better for low throughput rather than dosers? Electric for convenience only, I have looked at the HG One but even that looked like hard work.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

On demand function better ( IMHO) with some weight 100-200 g beans behind them

Dosers like a royal or k10 can be modded to retain less or have different Shute exits or you use bump and grind so retention can be made lower than the on demand version ....

All general hypothesis tho , you need Callum or CC or one of the other ex royal or major owners to give you some real life experience ( jeebsy , Gary, spence )


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> On demand function better ( IMHO) with some weight 100-200 g beans behind them
> 
> Dosers like a royal or k10 can be modded or have different Shute exits so retention can be made lower than the on demand version ....


Maybe I'm getting confused between doserless and on demand. I wont be using the timer function, just grinding pre-weighed beans.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Then again IMHO your not getting the best by doing that and using an " on demand " grinder ....

What grinder have u used before


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

An MC2, Vario and Mignon.

I think I have been spoilt by the Vario with retention. I get around .5g espresso and about .1g brewed.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The hg1 fits the single dose , low retention , big burr , small footprint bit.

Not quick or electric.

Often you need to try one out to see charm in them rather than the faff

Oh and taste what's in the cup ....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I know it's not on demand but I think asking Xpenno ( spence ) what the retention and cup profile is like on his k10 is worth a message .

It's got the same burrs as a k10 fresh but less retention


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> The hg1 fits the single dose , low retention , big burr , small footprint bit.
> 
> Not quick or electric.
> 
> ...


I was very sceptical about the HG1 ......... However after using Callum's one that he kindly brought to the recent grinder event at Rave, the only thing from stopping me from owning one is the money.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yeah we had to check the boot of your car when u left ...


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

Hmm I always liked the HG One. I might have to ask a few owners what it's like to live with.


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

I'm really happy with mine, I thought It would be a faff but It's not.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yeah we had to check the boot of your car when u left ...


i would have had the robur too, except Callum's such a nice chap , probably some of CC's kit would have been easier as he has so much he would just think he had left it somewhere.

I'll say it again very generous and unselfish for them to let people play with such lovely bits of kit.


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

I've got a major OD

pro's

no faff just set timer to about the right dose put some scales under, and press button, press the finger button very fast /quietish grinding, about as smaller footprint you'll get for a big burred electronic grinder,

cons,

always need a fair few beans in hopper, makes it impossible to swich between brew methods,

needs to purge a fair bit before first shot of the day, and between adjustments, so quite a lot of wastage,

hope that helps


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ask Callum or coffeechap would be my advise


Both myself and Callum are of the same opinion here, if you can get a royal in do it, it will be a huge step up in quality. the delivery into the protafilter on the mythos is excellent and the grind quality is very good, but the big burred mazzers just tip it in the cup


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Both myself and Callum are of the same opinion here, if you can get a royal in do it, it will be a huge step up in quality. the delivery into the protafilter on the mythos is excellent and the grind quality is very good, but the big burred mazzers just tip it in the cup


What's the difference with a Major and Royal? I think they both have the same body and burrs but different motors? Is one preferable for home use?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

same burrs and doser thats all, motor is much more powerfulk and soins slower on the royal, royal is also in a bigger case..


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Correct me if I'm wrong but not sure if the major runs titanium's too well, was looking into buying a set, but read somewhere that they can stall the motor ?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Thecatlinux said:


> i would have had the robur too, except Callum's such a nice chap....


I don't have your self restraint. It's now sat on my counter


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Orangertange said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but not sure if the major runs titanium's too well, was looking into buying a set, but read somewhere that they can stall the motor ?


yes you are wrong, there are two different titanium burr sets, one for the royal and one for the major


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Obnic said:


> I don't have your self restraint. It's now sat on my counter


I saw the photo of it in the back of the motor, you have got yourself a right gem there totally envious , I guess my time will come ,


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

Orangertange said:


> was looking into buying a set, but read somewhere that they can stall the motor ?


What do you expect of the extra ~150£ for a TiN coated burr set ?


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Thought they where a better grind,/"more aggressive cut" else why would would the royal ones be different, aren't the standard ones the same in both?


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

Orangertange said:


> Thought they where a better grind,/"more aggressive cut" else why would would the royal ones be different, aren't the standard ones the same in both?


A placebo effect would be most likely to account a ~3 µm thick coating for positive changes in grind quality.

The coating has nothing to do with the burr geometry, but the Royal burrs can stall your motor.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

There are three types of burrs for the mazzers, a standard royal burr set, a major set and a three phase set of burrs, all have a sligtly different profile, not sure if there are three different sets in the titanium burr sets. Titanium will just increase the life of the burrs, which if you are using them in a home environment is pretty irrelevant.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Having set eyes on a Robur for the first time today in DOCASA I was amazed by the sheer size of it, it looked just like my Mini except twice the size!


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