# My roast compared to the professional’s



## mathof

Peruvian beans. On the left Bella Barista's roast; on the right mine, in a Gene Café.

I'll make a taste comparison after a few days degassing. In the meantime, any visual observations would be appreciated.

Matt


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## iroko

Beans look very similar, taste test will be interesting.


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## mathof

iroko said:


> Beans look very similar, taste test will be interesting.


This is my second go. The first time, I stopped the roast at 14:45. The results were darker and the flavour dull, particularly compared to the excellent BB roast. This time I ended the roast at 14:00. Both roasts reached first crack at 238C, around 13:00. On the first roast, I dropped the temp to 235C after 45 sec of FC. This time, I dropped the temp to 235C immediately.

Matt


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## MediumRoastSteam

mathof said:


> This is my second go. The first time, I stopped the roast at 14:45. The results were darker and the flavour dull, particularly compared to the excellent BB roast. This time I ended the roast at 14:00. Both roasts reached first crack at 238C, around 13:00. On the first roast, I dropped the temp to 235C after 45 sec of FC. This time, I dropped the temp to 235C immediately.
> 
> Matt


Ciao Matteo,

I've roasted those very beans myself, and found that whatever I roasted was different from what I'd get from BB.

I find that when I roast [with the Gene 101] the beans are more brittle, dryer, and when I grind the static charge, if compared to the ones from B.B., is much much worse.

I also find that I'm having no fun roasting at this time of the year: I feel like the outside temp. is too cold, the voltage low (233V), thus I struggle to reach 233C on the Gene Display, roasts taking over 17 minutes to complete. I've added the dimmer mod, but I can't even use it as otherwise it won't reach temperature. I'll try to heat up the shed before hand next time!

Have a read of the Today's Roast. It's insightful.

Alberto.


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## Hasi

How do you taste them?

Do you undergo a standardised cupping procedure?


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## mathof

Hasi said:


> How do you taste them?
> 
> Do you undergo a standardised cupping procedure?


In fact, I tasted them today. I've never cupped, so I just pull an expresso using the same parameters that I use for the ones roasted by Bella Barista. I don't expect to replicate BB's roast; after all, they have a great deal of knowledge/experience and professional equipment. I'm a newbie with an unmodified Gene. Nonetheless, I would like to get some of the same flavours or, failing that, something drinkable. In fact, I have neither - only a combination of unpleasant acid and unwanted roastiness. Now, I've no idea what profile to try next. (The parameters I used are detailed above.)

Matt


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## Mrboots2u

mathof said:


> In fact, I tasted them today. I've never cupped, so I just pull an expresso using the same parameters that I use for the ones roasted by Bella Barista. I don't expect to replicate BB's roast; after all, they have a great deal of knowledge/experience and professional equipment. I'm a newbie with an unmodified Gene. Nonetheless, I would like to get some of the same flavours or, failing that, something drinkable. In fact, I have neither - only a combination of unpleasant acid and unwanted roastiness. Now, I've no idea what profile to try next. (The parameters I used are detailed above.)
> 
> Matt


Worth trying to pull a different shot, same bean for sure, different roast profile tho may mean you can get something drinkable if you tweak the shot.


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## iroko

That's a shame they didn't taste nice, have you got a voltage meter ?

Perhaps you had low voltage.


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## mathof

iroko said:


> That's a shame they didn't taste nice, have you got a voltage meter ?
> 
> Perhaps you had low voltage.


I do have a voltage meter. It is very stable around 238/240. Thanks.

Matt


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## mathof

Mrboots2u said:


> Worth trying to pull a different shot, same bean for sure, different roast profile tho may mean you can get something drinkable if you tweak the shot.


That's a good idea. I'll try that. Thanks.

Matt


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## Step21

Do you have any temperature data on the profile? Graph? Are you using Artisan? Any details on the Rate of Rise through the roast?

It sounds like too much time spent in the Maillard phase if it is tasting roasty after such a short post 1C time (7% by my calculation - too short) which is probably why the acids are undeveloped.

How long did the beans take to yellow?


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## Hasi

mathof said:


> In fact, I tasted them today. I've never cupped, so I just pull an expresso using the same parameters that I use for the ones roasted by Bella Barista. I don't expect to replicate BB's roast; after all, they have a great deal of knowledge/experience and professional equipment. I'm a newbie with an unmodified Gene. Nonetheless, I would like to get some of the same flavours or, failing that, something drinkable. In fact, I have neither - only a combination of unpleasant acid and unwanted roastiness. Now, I've no idea what profile to try next. (The parameters I used are detailed above.)
> 
> Matt


To determine whether you have produced something drinkable, getting rid of all variables is key. Cupping is easy to do and does not require uber special equipment to get started... I recommend you give it a try


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## mathof

Step21 said:


> Do you have any temperature data on the profile? Graph? Are you using Artisan? Any details on the Rate of Rise through the roast?
> 
> It sounds like too much time spent in the Maillard phase if it is tasting roasty after such a short post 1C time (7% by my calculation - too short) which is probably why the acids are undeveloped.
> 
> How long did the beans take to yellow?


With the Gene, the only information you have is the exit temperature of the hot air. Here are the notes I made, starting from room temperature (21/22C):

3' 160C

5 187

7 204

8 212 (beans tan)

9 218 (turning brown)

10 224 (browner)

11 228 (browner)

12 232

13 235 First Crack, lower heat to 232

14 begin fast cool

I don't think I could have spent less time in the Maillard phase, but I could certainly give another minute or two to the post-FC before stopping the roast. I'll try that next.

Matt


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## Rob1

I'd hold at a lower temp for a minute or two longer so you're hitting 210c on 10 minutes. I think your dropon first crack is a little odd. When you tell the heater to turn off at 232c doesn't the temp drop to 230c before rising again to 232c only to then drop again to 227c before climbing and repeat, assuming first crack was over and done with in a minute (and the roast even progressed beyond FC end towards second crack?) I'd say you can lower the temp by 5c and possibly lower a second time by a degree about 20 seconds after first crack ends to stretch out the roast.


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## Step21

I don't know about roasting with a Gene Cafe so my observations are just general points to consider or ignore!

If the temperature readings are from an exhaust then I would think that you should see an initial fall (if you are using an initial charge preheat? ) before the temperature recovers and begins to build. Then the temperature should rise pretty evenly thereafter, with a ramp up at 1c when the cracking beans give out heat rather than absorbing it, which will be why you are turning down the heat at this point. It looks like a pretty even rise from your figures.

I'd guess that your drying phase ends around 7 mins, maybe 200C? You need to look for that point where pale green becomes yellow

So at a guess your profile could be split roughly 50/43/7 Drying/Maillard/post 1C. Which looks unbalanced. Maybe try for something more like 40/40/20?

Lower grown and bigger beans generally benefit from a long gentle drying and these Peruvians might be like that. So as always you have to experiment.

Hope your next roast is more to your liking. What kind of roast are you aiming for?


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## Rob1

The gene takes a long time to dry the beans (as you say about 170c in 7 minutes) but it takes 5 minutes to get to 150c (BT) so very little happens to the beans within the first 5 minutes of the roast (no charge temp on a gene 101 unless you're doing back to back in which case you'll start at about 60c and see the dip and recovery you refer to).


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## mathof

I hadn't realised that the Maillard phase begins when the pale green beans become yellow. That makes sense. Also I didn't know about proportions of time in each phase.

I'm aiming for a medium-light roast.

Matt


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## iroko

Did your roast taste better after resting longer, or did you bin them.


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## Step21

mathof said:


> I hadn't realised that the Maillard phase begins when the pale green beans become yellow. That makes sense. Also I didn't know about proportions of time in each phase.
> 
> I'm aiming for a medium-light roast.
> 
> Matt


The proportions are not any kind of magic formula and there is a fair bit of leeway in it. Quite a few roasting theories around. These things are roaster dependant though and it sounds like the Gene Cafe will always be skewed toward the drying phase if it takes so long to warm up. Advice from experienced Gene Cafe users will be more relevant than broad generalisations.


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## mathof

Binned. Thanks for asking.

Matt


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## NickR

I had to return a recent batch of BB beans because to my mind they were under roasted and baked rather than roasted. Predominant taste was oats and stewed tea.


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## MediumRoastSteam

NickR said:


> I had to return a recent batch of BB beans because to my mind they were under roasted and baked rather than roasted. Predominant taste was oats and stewed tea.


Wow. I was under the impression that the roastmaster would at least sample a batch. Looks like I'm wrong!


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## Sheena_Lance

what are the difference about their tastes?it looks the beans on the right is a bit darker and bitter that on the left side.


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## mathof

Rob1 said:


> I'd hold at a lower temp for a minute or two longer so you're hitting 210c on 10 minutes. I think your dropon first crack is a little odd. When you tell the heater to turn off at 232c doesn't the temp drop to 230c before rising again to 232c only to then drop again to 227c before climbing and repeat, assuming first crack was over and done with in a minute (and the roast even progressed beyond FC end towards second crack?) I'd say you can lower the temp by 5c and possibly lower a second time by a degree about 20 seconds after first crack ends to stretch out the roast.


I've just completed a roast in line with your suggestions. It took 15.30 instead of 14 minutes, and is a fairly even, medium colour. I'll try it out in a week or so, and report back. Thanks for your help.

Matt


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## Rob1

What were your timings?


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## mathof

Rob1 said:


> What were your timings?


3 min 157C

4 172

5 184

5:32 190 (held for 1 min)

7 195 - darker green

8 207 - light tan

9 213 - tan

10 219 - light brown

11 223 - med brown

12 228 - brown

13 233 - isolated first cracks

14 234 - rolling FC

14:30 - lowered temp to 230

15. 231

15.30 COOL DOWN

NOTES: voltage was ~236V throughout.

250g in/210g out = 16% weight loss

I never heard FC clearly (the Gene is noisy). It's supposed to happen at 238, but it seems to happen earlier for me. I hope I am not imagining it.


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## Rob1

Why's it supposed to happen at 238c? Internal bean tempt will be about 205c but with my probe it's generally about 214-220c. It smokes at 205c but I don't hear the loud pops until a little later and I count FC as when the popping is rapid. It ends at about 221 or 222c.

Temp readout on the gene varies between 230 and 240c for first crack, don't think I've ever had it lower from memory.


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## mathof

Rob1 said:


> Why's it supposed to happen at 238c? Internal bean tempt will be about 205c but with my probe it's generally about 214-220c. It smokes at 205c but I don't hear the loud pops until a little later and I count FC as when the popping is rapid. It ends at about 221 or 222c.
> 
> Temp readout on the gene varies between 230 and 240c for first crack, don't think I've ever had it lower from memory.


I've read that in a couple of places, but I'm pleased to hear that is not your experience.

Matt


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## mathof

mathof said:


> 3 min 157C
> 
> 4 172
> 
> 5 184
> 
> 5:32 190 (held for 1 min)
> 
> 7 195 - darker green
> 
> 8 207 - light tan
> 
> 9 213 - tan
> 
> 10 219 - light brown
> 
> 11 223 - med brown
> 
> 12 228 - brown
> 
> 13 233 - isolated first cracks
> 
> 14 234 - rolling FC
> 
> 14:30 - lowered temp to 230
> 
> 15. 231
> 
> 15.30 COOL DOWN


I've now given the beans seven days to off-gas and dialled them in. The predominant flavour is roast notes, which is not surprising as they are noticeably darker than the ones roasted by Bella Barista. There is, however, no bitterness. They are not very interesting as espresso but they are certainly drinkable with milk.

I think the next go round, I'll take pause longer on the way to FC and drop the beans 30" rather than a full minute after the end of FC. Although any suggestions are welcome.

Matt


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## Rob1

Lowering the temp 30 seconds after rolling is probably excessive especially in an unmodded gene, I'd lower as it starts. I assume you had a dark roast on your hands. Hit second crack? When did first end? I may guessing the pops had stopped by the time you dropped the heat.


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## mathof

I think all your speculations are correct. I'll take them into account on the next attempt. Thanks very much.

Matt


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