# Sticky  Mara X: Redirect OPV discharge water from drip tray to re-use – easy mod instructions (with pics)



## Doram

*What?*
This easy mod is to re-route the water discharged from the overpressure valve (OPV) so that instead of being dumped in the drip tray and wasted, it will get reused in the machine. The mod is easy, cheap, invisible, and completely reversible.

*Why?*
One of the very few complaints about the Mara X is that it dumps the OPV discharge water into the drip tray. Re-routing will (a) reduce water waste; (b) reduce the water that ends in the drip tray. This results in less need to fill the tank and less emptying of the tray.

*How much water will be saved? Is this worth doing?*
The amount of OPV water discharge varies by shot time and puck resistance (For example, @disq measured that 85ml of water was reclaimed in a ~49-second shot; My own experiment showed that water in the drip tray after one heating cycle and shot reduced from 125mm before re-routing to 40mm after - so about the same). This is not a huge amount, but it adds up, and if you invest in the water (bottled, re-mineralise, etc.), you might not want to through it away and fill the drip tray with it.

*So why does Lelit dump the water into the drip tray? Is there a disadvantage to re-routing?*
Many (most) tanked machines return the OPV discharge water back to the tank. (e.g. Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia, Lelit Elizabeth and more). This was also the case in the first prototype of the Mara X, but that was changed in the production model.

According to @DavecUK, the dumping of the water to the drip tray was meant to enable provision for a neat in-tank filter in the bottom-fed water tank, with no messy tubes entering from the top. However, you can do this mod and still use the in-tank filter; and if you don't use the filter - it's even easier.

*How hard is it to do the mode?*
This mod is very easy. I took my time and maybe spent an hour, but the actual job is very quick: just pop a few tubes from their fittings and connect them differently.

*What parts are needed?*
The mod requires two 3-way 6mm connectors (cost £6) and that's it. I used one Y-shape and one T-shape, but you can do it with two Y connectors. I used brass for durability and heat resistance, but you might be able to get away with plastic connectors).

Y connector: *BRASS barbed Hose "Y" Splitter Joiner Connector. Available in 4 sizes | eBay*

T connector: *SOLID BRASS barbed Hose "T" splitter/joiner/connector. Available in 6 sizes | eBay*

(Halfords sell a pair of plastic Y connectors if you don't want to wait for brass to come in the post: *Halfords Hose Connector Y Piece 6mm HFX373 | Halfords UK**).*

*Optional parts:*
@DavecUK suggested fitting a one-way no-return valve if you want to keep using the in-tank filter: *One Way Valve Sprung Plastic Barbed Non-Return Inline Water Air Car Gas Liquid | eBay**.* (This part is to ensure that water from the OPV discharge will not push back to the tank, potentially lifting the in-tank filter from its seat).

@MediumRoastSteam suggested using cable ties on the connections to secure them, and extra silicone tubing so that you can keep the original tubing intact if you want to reverse the mod. I didn't use cable ties as my fittings a barbed and seem very secure as they are. I also didn't need any extra tubing: I 'borrowed' 4-5cm of tube from the in-tank hose loop that I don't need (because I don't use the filter), and kept the original tubes inside the machine intact (so everything is reversible to original condition). However, I found that the tube from the bottom of the tank to the pump is long enough, so if I wanted I could do all the connections without any need for extra tubing borrowed from the tank.

*I am convinced, what do I need to do (see pics below)?*
1) Remove the top panel and the main part of the case of the machine. See instructions in DaveC's excellent video here: 




2) Identify the OPV (pic below). Follow the hose that comes out of it. It terminates in a brass X connector.

3) Carefully remove the OPV hose from the X connector, and re-route it behind the boiler to the other side of the machine (to where the hose from the bottom of the tank enters the pump - pic below).

4) Either cut the hose connected to the pump a few cm above the entry and connect the T connector to the hose (or use a few cm of new hose to connect the T connector to the pump's entry). Use the free connection on the T to connect the hose from the OPV. That's the re-routing of the OPV discharge done.**

5) (optional): if you want to use the in-tank filter, connect a one-way (no-return) valve on the hose between the tank and the pump. This will ensure the OPV discharge water will not return to the tank and push against the filter (I didn't do this stage).

6) To finish the job, go back to the X connector where the OPV discharge hose was originally connected. Remove the 3 remaining hoses that are connected to the X connector (safety valve, solenoid, and drip tray), and connect them to the new Y hose connector. Secure the connections with cable ties if you want (I didn't), and also secure the Y connector to the electrical wires (as it was originally with the X connector). (Bottom pic shows this before and after)

**An even simpler option: Just follow steps 1-3 and 6, but after removing the OPV discharge hose from the X connector route it back to the water tank (requires making a cut in the top of the tank so that the cover of the tank can sit flush), or route the hose to a bottle next to or under the machine. Both these options are possible but of course less elegant than the proposed full mod.

That's it, all done. (To be safe, it might be a good idea to run the machine (carefully) with the case off to see that everything is working as it should and you have no leaks before fitting back the case (to be honest, I didn't bother).

Enjoy the machine with less water waste and less emptying of drip tray. 😊

Credits and thanks: @DavecUK, @disq, @MediumRoastSteam and all other fantastic members here for their support and contribution.


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## siliconslave

must be MaraX DIY day  looks good - will be ordering some parts soon!


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram - great! great! great! - Let us know how it goes in the next few days! This is an amazing guide to this mod!

This should be a sticky thread on the Lelit Forum for sure!

@Jason11, @Stanic, @Badgerman ^^^^


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## itguy

Thanks for posting this. Sounds like a v useful mod. In terms of the non-return valve, if that is put in the tank feed tube to pump (before the Y piece), if the OPV releases water when the pump isn't running, won't that cause a pressure build up against the pump in the OPV to pump re-routed tube? Or will it flow through it?


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## Doram

itguy said:


> Thanks for posting this. Sounds like a v useful mod. In terms of the non-return valve, if that is put in the tank feed tube to pump (before the Y piece), if the OPV releases water when the pump isn't running, won't that cause a pressure build up against the pump in the OPV to pump re-routed tube? Or will it flow through it?


 I didn't use the non-return valve, so this better be answered by @DavecUK. However, just from common sense - the OPV releases the pressure from the pump, so it only discharges water when the pump is running. I can't think of a situation where the OPV will push water when the pump is idle, but maybe I am wrong?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Circuit won't be under pressure if the pump is not running. Not in the MaraX. (The manometer can tell you that) 👍


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## siliconslave

parts on order - although even with £6 of parts its going to take a while to break even on re-mineralised water... will save emptying the drip tray so much at least


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## itguy

Perfect, thank you - for some reason I was thinking it was the pressure release on the boiler (or the E61) which this obviously isn't!

Ignore me, it's been a long day


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## itguy

siliconslave said:


> parts on order - although even with £6 of parts its going to take a while to break even on re-mineralised water... will save emptying the drip tray so much at least


 Did you go brass or plastic ?


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## Doram

itguy said:


> Did you go brass or plastic ?


 @siliconslave went all out and splashed on brass for £6. The plastic ones are £1.85 for a pair 😉 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0087O4YC6; Or £2.90 if you get them at Halfords).


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## siliconslave

just had our kitchen redone - if I cause the machine to dump water everywhere i'm going to be in serious trouble


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## MediumRoastSteam

siliconslave said:


> just had our kitchen redone - if I cause the machine to dump water everywhere i'm going to be in serious trouble


 At least you can say.... "but... only water. Could've been worse." (E.g: coffee!)


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## MediumRoastSteam

this mod is even better than the traditional approach mentioned above as lukewarm water does not go back to the tank.

If you use bottled water or home distilled, it's a no brainier IMO


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## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> this mod is even better than the traditional approach mentioned above as lukewarm water does not go back to the tank.
> 
> If you use bottled water or home distilled, it's a no brainier IMO


 I totally agree. I said it's reversible, but I can't see why anyone would ever want to go back. I would want it even if I used tap water, just for the sake of getting less water in the tray (45ml per shot vs. 120-150ml that I was getting before. With the amount I was getting I had to empty every day, now it will just empty when I want to clean the tray). Less need to fill the tank is also a bonus. Finally, as it's all under the hood, you still get to keep the neat bottom-fed tank, no hoses to remove and splash when you take the tank out.

It really feels like a win-win-win situation. It works and feels as something that came out of the factory, not as a mod, because it just makes the machine better, period. Unless I am missing something important, I wouldn't at all be surprised if Lelit will do it themselves next time they revise the Mara X.


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## kico

Firstly thank you so much for the detailed guide. I would be even more lost without it and wouldn't even attempt it.
I am awful at DIY stuff, parts ordered. Seems simple enough?

Would be easier to put the pictures underneath each step rather than at the bottom of the post. Maybe this is just be being terrible at following.



Doram said:


> 4) Either cut the hose connected to the pump a few cm above the entry and connect the T connector to the hose (or use a few cm of new hose to connect the T connector to the pump's entry). Use the free connection on the T to connect the hose from the OPV. That's the re-routing of the OPV discharge done.**


 Is the new hose the hose inside the water filter? I use RO water so I guess I don't need to use the provided water filter, I just did because my plumed RO filter change is long overdue. What size hose would I be looking for if I wanted to buy a spare?

Would be great if someone made a video of this to help the DIY blind crowd!!
Seems like a 10 minute max job - am I right?


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## Doram

kico said:


> Is the new hose the hose inside the water filter? I use RO water so I guess I don't need to use the provided water filter, I just did because my plumed RO filter change is long overdue. What size hose would I be looking for if I wanted to buy a spare?


 It will be very clear and simple once you open the machine. In stage 4 that you asked about - The original situation is you have a hose going from the bottom of the water tank to the pump entry. This hose is feeding water to the pump. Let's call it hose A.

Now you have a new hose (coming from the OPV) - This is hose B.

You want to join Hose B to Hose A, so that both feed water to the pump entry. You do this by creating a T junction (the T connector). You just connect the T anywhere on Hose A (using 2 of the 3 ways on the T), and then connect hose B to the third connection on the T. Now both hoses A and B feed the pump. Done.

To connect the T connector to hose A, you either cut it anywhere, and connect the T to the middle of the hose, or you connect the T to the end of the existing hose A, and add a small piece of new hose, and connect this bit to the pump entry - both are basically the same thing. You really don't need to buy more hose, because the existing hose A is long enough. If you did want to add a small piece to the end, the loop hose inside the tank (which you don't need if you don't use the filter), is exactly the same as hose A. (Even if you do cut a small bit of the loop hose in the tank, you still have plenty to use the in tank filter in the future if you wanted to).

I hope this makes sense, but it will for sure be clearer when you have the case off.


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## kico

Doram said:


> It will be very clear and simple once you open the machine. In stage 4 that you asked about - The original situation is you have a hose going from the bottom of the water tank to the pump entry. This hose is feeding water to the pump. Let's call it hose A.
> 
> Now you have a new hose (coming from the OPV) - This is hose B.
> 
> You want to join Hose B to Hose A, so that both feed water to the pump entry. You do this by creating a T junction (the T connector). You just connect the T anywhere on Hose A (using 2 of the 3 ways on the T), and then connect hose B to the third connection on the T. Now both hoses A and B feed the pump. Done.
> 
> To connect the T connector to hose A, you either cut it anywhere, and connect the T to the middle of the hose, or you connect the T to the end of the existing hose A, and add a small piece of new hose, and connect this bit to the pump entry - both are basically the same thing. You really don't need to buy more hose, because the existing hose A is long enough. If you did want to add a small piece to the end, the loop hose inside the tank (which you don't need if you don't use the filter), is exactly the same as hose A. (Even if you do cut a small bit of the loop hose in the tank, you still have plenty to use the in tank filter in the future if you wanted to).
> 
> I hope this makes sense, but it will for sure be clearer when you have the case off.


 I understand your original explanation better with the pictures, it is clear. I will cut the extra bit of hose from the filter. Thank you so much!

My RO filter already wastes 5 glasses of water per 1 glass of filtered water, this will make me feel better about not wasting (as much) water!


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## Doram

kico said:


> I understand your original explanation better with the pictures, it is clear. I will cut the extra bit of hose from the filter. Thank you so much!
> 
> My RO filter already wastes 5 glasses of water per 1 glass of filtered water, this will make me feel better about not wasting (as much) water!


 Great, glad to hear you understood the pictures. It's a very simple change, but it's a little tricky to explain it when you can't have a look inside the machine. You really shouldn't worry - it is super easy and well worth it IMO.

Good luck with it, and do share your experience once you have done it - would love to hear how it went! .


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## MediumRoastSteam

@kico - I think you are turning this innocent puppy of a mod into a 7-headed monster! 😂👍 The instructions there are super easy to follow, as @Doram say, once you open the machine and locate the OPV, the hose, the X fitting and the pump, it will become extremely clear.

The OPV and the pump are the same as in the Elizabeth. You'll need a food safe silicone hose which is 5mm I.D. (inner diameter) and 8.5mm or 8.mm O.D. Outer diameter if you want to keep some as spare.

It's always good to have some hoses as spare handy just in case a vacuum breaker, solenoid breaks or a mod needs doing... 🙂 - That's why I have 2 metres of that spare at home 🙂

Like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clear-Silicone-Tubing-Hose-Pipe-Pond-Aquarium-Fish-Tank-Air-Pump-AFS-Tube-FDA/130771449103?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=430096423714&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## spasypaddy

2 questions:

1. is it essentially rerouting the water back into the boiler?

2. is there any reason this couldnt be done on a bianca? probably one more for @DavecUK

but if so this is huge for all lelit e61 machines.

thank you for the guide, i hope i can use it on my bianca as wasting water is irritating!


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## DavecUK

@spasypaddyThe Bianca doesn't deal with water the same way as it has a rotary pump. If you have water pissing out of the vent above the drip tray during a shot, then something isn't adjusted correctly. The rotary pumps recycle excess water around what is called a balanced bypass system...basically the excess output is routed back to the input of the pump, via an internal channel/spring, valve system.

After the shot the small amount of water that comes out of that fitting on the front panel is due to water expansion in the brew boiler as it heats the incoming cold water.


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## spasypaddy

DavecUK said:


> @spasypaddyThe Bianca doesn't deal with water the same way as it has a rotary pump. If you have water pissing out of the vent above the drip tray during a shot, then something isn't adjusted correctly. The rotary pumps recycle excess water around what is called a balanced bypass system...basically the excess output is routed back to the input of the pump, via an internal channel/spring, valve system.
> 
> After the shot the small amount of water that comes out of that fitting on the front panel is due to water expansion in the brew boiler as it heats the incoming cold water.


 so there isnt a huge amount of waste then? i dont have the pissing thing you talk about, just a dump of water at the end of a shot. so im glad im not wasting more water than necessary! Thanks


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## DavecUK

spasypaddy said:


> so there isnt a huge amount of waste then? i dont have the pissing thing you talk about, just a dump of water at the end of a shot. so im glad im not wasting more water than necessary! Thanks


 No more than any other machine and certainly no savings you can make.


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## MediumRoastSteam

spasypaddy said:


> just a dump of water at the end of a shot.


 You could argue that the Bianca wastes even less water than other traditional E61 machines as it does not have a pre-infusion chamber in the E61, because it has a flow control valve anyway.

But in summary, the mod discussed here applies exclusively to the MaraX, no other machine.


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## Oxnwastl

Thanks for the great instructions @Doram. I did the mod yesterday without any problems. I use the in-tank filter and tried without the one-way-valve. Everything works flawlessly and I couldn't be happier. The reduction in waste water is enormous. Now it feels the galleons of water I schlepp to my apartment land in my stomach instead of the drip tray. Much better overall experience.


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## itguy

Interesting re the one way valve. I have the bits coming to do the mod on mine tomorrow or Tuesday, and was going to fit a one way valve.

I wonder what the thinking was behind it being needed? I'd prefer to minimise the amount of stuff inside if I can (one less thing to go wrong in the future).


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## Doram

itguy said:


> Interesting re the one way valve. I have the bits coming to do the mod on mine tomorrow or Tuesday, and was going to fit a one way valve.
> 
> I wonder what the thinking was behind it being needed? I'd prefer to minimise the amount of stuff inside if I can (one less thing to go wrong in the future).


 The one way no-return valve idea is @DavecUK's, so he could probably explain it better, but my understanding is that when the tank is sitting in the machine, the bottom valve is just open and enables water to go both out of the tank and into it. In this situation, if water is coming out of the OPV faster than the pump is pulling it, the excess discharge water from the OPV will enter the tank from the bottom opening, and potentially dislodge the in-tank filter (if used).

If you don't want to do more than is needed (my rational exactly), but you want to use the filter, you can start without the no-return valve, fit a filter in the tank and see what happens. If it works fine, maybe you don't need the no-return valve. If the filter is pushed out, it should be easy enough to put the no-return valve on the hose that goes to the tank.


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## itguy

Thanks, sounds like a plan. Presumably I could even fit the one way valve in the hose in the tank from the bottom inlet to the filter? Basically as long as it doesn't allow water to return to the filter at any point, that is the aim ?


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## Doram

itguy said:


> Basically as long as it doesn't allow water to return to the filter at any point, that is the aim ?


 I think so, but let's let @DavecUK answer this one. He knows the machine much better than most, I think.


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## DavecUK

It was just to prevent the filter lifting off the mount,,,,that's the thing Lelit were worried about. I intended to get this all sorted during the visit that I had to cancel.


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## itguy

I'll give it a good test too @DavecUK and post my findings up here.


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## Doram

itguy said:


> Thanks, sounds like a plan. Presumably I could even fit the one way valve in the hose in the tank from the bottom inlet to the filter? Basically as long as it doesn't allow water to return to the filter at any point, that is the aim ?


 If you make any experiments with the filter, please share how it went - I am sure it will be useful to others as well! (ah, our messages crossed, but I can't delete mine...)

Have fun with the project! 🙂


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## iseebirdsfly

I tried the mod and on my machine pump is pulling water from OPV. I can see it when machine is open that small bubbles are moving in the tube going from OPV. In some rare cases it does not happen and then it seems to work normally and pressure is building up. But if it happens then pressure is not rising and stays at 2 bars. The first day it seemed to work but pressure was fluctuating between 8-10 bars. Now it rarely builds pressure and just pulls water from OPV even at 2 bars. I'm not sure sure how OPV works and if something could break inside.

If I disconnect OPV tube from the pump then everything seems to work fine. Pressure reaches 10 bars and does not fluctuate.

I was discussing it with @Doram and he does not see this on his machine. Any ideas if its faulty OPV or something else? I would like this mod if anyone has ideas what else can I try.

I used x2 6mm brass T splitters. I tried to swap reservoir tube with OPV tube on the splitter but it didn't change anything. When I disconnect OPV tube from the pump them water is not flowing from OPV before reaching 10 bars (as it should be).


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## iseebirdsfly

Update: I gave it another try. Disconnected reservoir and OPV tubes. Tried to suck water from both 😅. It it really hard to pull water from OPV and water from reservoir is flowing all by itself because of pressure from reservoir. Now I think pump is not pulling water from OPV but rather just not building pressure because of air bubbles. So I tried to get the air out of the tubes before reconnecting everything. It is working right now but I noticed that some air gets into OPV tube after pulling the shot. And I'm worried it will cause troubles for the pump again.

Any ideas if its normal to get air bubbles from OPV?


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## Doram

iseebirdsfly said:


> Update: I gave it another try. Disconnected reservoir and OPV tubes. Tried to suck water from both 😅. It it really hard to pull water from OPV and water from reservoir is flowing all by itself because of pressure from reservoir. Now I think pump is not pulling water from OPV but rather just not building pressure because of air bubbles. So I tried to get the air out of the tubes before reconnecting everything. It is working right now but I noticed that some air gets into OPV tube after pulling the shot. And I'm worried it will cause troubles for the pump again.
> 
> Any ideas if its normal to get air bubbles from OPV?


 @DavecUK - My understanding is that @iseebirdsflyis getting a pressure issue when the OPV discharge hose is re-routed to the pump inlet hose as I did myself. For me this doesn't change anything, and the machine is working exactly as before (accept for the intended purpose of not dumping water to the tray) - no issues whatsoever. I am not getting any pressure fluctuations during the shot and/or with a blind basket as happens to him, and don't see how the mod could cause that. Any idea what could be causing such an issue on his machine or what he can do to try and solve it?


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## iseebirdsfly

After the night I can see that the tube going from OPV is full of air instead of water. Turning the pump with blind filter built the pressure to 10 bars but then OPV started pushing water and no surprise all the air from the tube was pushed to the pump and that caused pressure to fluctuate. After a few seconds steam pressure gauge started rising rapidly going above 3 bar. I turned off the pump and opened steam to drop the pressure.

Now I'm narrowing the problem to the air in the tube from OPV after the machine is standing idle for a few hours. I don't know where this air comes from and if it can be avoided.


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## itguy

Does this point to the OPV being faulty possibly?


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## MediumRoastSteam

itguy said:


> Does this point to the OPV being faulty possibly?


 When the mod is reverted, everything works as expected. So the OPV is not at fault here. I don't want to say much here because I'm not hydraulics expert, but, if you draw the mod on a piece of paper, it becomes clear that the pump then "sucks" from two places (from the pipe from the OPV and the tank). The OPV pipe would most of the time be primed, full of water, but that's obviously not the case in @iseebirdsfly's case. I wonder... Is it doing that because the hose is empty at the start of the mod? Once full of water - i.e.: do some backflushing - is it an issue subsequently?


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## DavecUK

*I think without photos and video to confirm what's been done, the sound and what's been happening....it's tricky. *Certainly if the expansion valve output tube was routed back to the tank (via the top as in Elizabeth), then there wouldn't be a problem. The first MaraX prototype I have actually routes the water back to the tank in the same way as Elizabeth and the tamp is a simple drop in with two tubes from the top.

Really, there is no reason for air to be coming from the expansion valve...there is only one place it can leak in from...the top group valve. If the expansion valve was letting air in, it would simply draw water from the tank, if it was coming in via the pump inlet, the same. The amount of air would be small and would show itself as some small delay water came from the group until prior to the mod.

So now I don't know what's going on


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## itguy

Has anyone done this mod yet including a one way valve?

I am trying to think where best to put it - in pipe from the bottom of the tank the Y piece, or in the tank in the tube from the filter to the bottom of tank?

Not sure it will matter...


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## iseebirdsfly

So as I said the tube going from OPV was full of air in the morning. I tried to get it out by mounting blind filter to push the air into the pump and then removing it to get the air out to the group head. The machine is working for now. I'll wait and see if it fills with air again and I will make a video if it happens again.

The water in the OPV tube is vibrating and air bubbles are moving when the pump is on and this is why I was thinking that it suck water out of OPV. But maybe suction is just making water move inside the tube like some kind of turbulence.

I also did one small change by switching reservoir tube with OPV tube near the pump so reservoir tube is connected from the top and OPV from the side now. The idea is that maybe some small air bubbles get in from reservoir and build up in OPV tube. At least it should not be worse 

p.s: I don't know the internals of the machine but I have good understanding of physics, math and systems in general as a software engineer. I'm sure I connected everything properly and I can slowly get the air out. I just wanted to confirm that it is not supposed to get in. Could it happen if some air was trapped inside the boiler? So far 4h passed and there is no air in the tube, fingers crossed.


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## MediumRoastSteam

iseebirdsfly said:


> I also did one small change by switching reservoir tube with OPV tube near the pump so reservoir tube is connected from the top and OPV from the side now. The idea is that maybe some small air bubbles get in from reservoir and build up in OPV tube. At least it should not be worse


 Is the problem happening with this setup? Or did you change in trying to "fix" it?


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## iseebirdsfly

itguy said:


> Has anyone done this mod yet including a one way valve?
> 
> I am trying to think where best to put it - in pipe from the bottom of the tank the Y piece, or in the tank in the tube from the filter to the bottom of tank?
> 
> Not sure it will matter...


 Have you tried it without the valve? I'm not sure you really need it even with filter. It is not be a problem if some water gets back to the reservoir. The only concern is that the stream would lift the filter. Given the diameter of the filter and that there is always a gap between it and the bottom I doubt it will happen. I actually would be more worried that it cannot get back into reservoir when you are doing backflush with blind filter. Anyway you can always add the valve later inside the tank.


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## iseebirdsfly

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Is the problem happening with this setup? Or did you change in trying to "fix" it?


 Once I get the air out of the tube it is working for some time. I removed air yesterday and the machine was working for the couple of hours before I went to bed. This morning OPV tube was full of air. I swapped the tubes as an experiment, removed the air and currently 4h passed and there is no air yet. I will give an update when more time will pass.


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## Doram

Here is a small video to show how the mod works on my machine. (the coffee is a few months old and ground too coarse, so shot is fast [didn't mean to drink it, lol], but you can still see what is going on).

Note that the pressure ramp up is normal, and the pressure is held at 10 bar throughout the shot (usually it holds at ~10,5, but as I said this is old coffee ground too coarse). Also note that no water is entering the drip tray during the shot, which is the reason we are here. 🙂






Thanks @MediumRoastSteam for the tip on how to upload the video properly.


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## Doram

iseebirdsfly said:


> I also did one small change by switching reservoir tube with OPV tube near the pump so reservoir tube is connected from the top and OPV from the side now. The idea is that maybe some small air bubbles get in from reservoir and build up in OPV tube. At least it should not be worse


 *You might be on to something here.* Note that in my photo the tube from the tank comes from the leg of the T (so below), and the tube from the OPV is connected to the top of the T (going straight down to the pump)? I initially thought I will do it he other way around, but then decided to do it this way because it *prevents the tubes from the OPV and from the tank crossing each other*. If they do cross, and are pushed between the case and the boiler's insulation, they might not have enough room and be blocked? Is it possible that your original set up had the tubes crossing each other and possibly that pressing on each other and restricting the flow from the tank? Could have something like that caused your problem? It would make sense, because if the tube from the tank was restricted, then the pump would be sucking on the OPV...


----------



## itguy

Well all my parts arrived today except for the Y brass connector. Roll on postie tomorrow...


----------



## iseebirdsfly

Update:

I didn't post for some time as things were changing slowly. I looked time it is getting better but I wanted to wait longer.

After my last post there was no air in the OPV tube in the morning. I pulled one shot which worked fine but air was pulled into the tube after the shot and unsurprisingly next shot was not building pressure. Next days some shots were working but some were not. But pressure not building seemed to happen less frequently day after day. Also there was no major air amount in the OPV tube but it would still fail sometimes. Also sometimes when pressure was not building it would start to build pressure in the steam boiler very fast, passing 3 bar and going to 14 on the other scale. At that point I would open steam valve and it would purge hot water. Much bigger amount of water than usual.

Anyway it was working fine for the last two days. The worst I see is pressure dropping to 9 bar during the shot.

Conclusion: I think I had air build up in the boiler. The mod seems to work when air is not in the system but if there is air then it is difficult to get it out cause it is like a closed loop after the mod.


----------



## DavecUK

iseebirdsfly said:


> Anyway it was working fine for the last two days. The worst I see is pressure dropping to 9 bar during the shot.
> 
> Conclusion: I think I had air build up in the boiler. The mod seems to work when air is not in the system but if there is air then it is difficult to get it out cause it is like a closed loop after the mod.


 Could be...if that's the case you will have to route it back into the tank.


----------



## Doram

DavecUK said:


> iseebirdsfly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway it was working fine for the last two days. The worst I see is pressure dropping to 9 bar during the shot.
> 
> Conclusion: I think I had air build up in the boiler. The mod seems to work when air is not in the system but if there is air then it is difficult to get it out cause it is like a closed loop after the mod.
> 
> 
> 
> Could be...if that's the case you will have to route it back into the tank.
Click to expand...

 @iseebirdsfly I Never had any such issue. Mine is just working exactly as it did before the mod (just not wasting the water). No idea why you would have air in your system. Did you check if you crossed the hoses and somehow restricted the flow in them?


----------



## kico

*Puts brass connectors back in the envelope* and waits for @iseebirdsflyto check/confirm crossed hoses.


----------



## kico

Pulled 7 doubles back to back trying to dial in a bad roast the other day (niche wasn't properly calibrated), the drip tray was already a little full from earlier on. Didn't realise as the water was still clear. Suddenly I felt my socks get wet, tried to track the source and thought the machine was leaking from the inside, but it was just the drip tray overfilling!😂

I guess I would benefit from this mod. I'll give it a go this weekend or maybe next week if I don't get time, and will report back!

I believe @iseebirdsfly's case could be a unique one.


----------



## zellleonhart

Hi all, I have placed order for a Mara X and can't wait for it to arrive. I am wondering if I decided to do this mod after some time, will the tubes shown in these pictures filled with water after some usage?

How do I safely or properly drain the water if necessary? I also saw that @iseebirdsfly had air trapped in the OPV tube before, just want to be sure before I do it to avoid this from happening.

This is my first espresso machine ever


----------



## Doram

zellleonhart said:


> How do I safely or properly drain the water if necessary?


 There will be very little water (if any) in the hoses if you want to do the mod. No need to drain anything (just make sure you unplug from electricity before you do anything).


----------



## Doram

One important point that I should have mentioned in the instructions: *Dipping the end of the hoses in boiling water for a few seconds softens the tube and makes it a lot easier to push onto the connectors.*
(thanks @kico for asking about that).


----------



## kico

*Typing carefully to ensure that the cuts on fingers do not open up and start bleeding again*

Had the day off and I thought I may as well do this today, thought it would only take an hour...

It took me just over 2 hours, this may be user error but I think there are some points which can be taken from my experience. Even though this is very straightforward, I do not think it is a quick mod!

Thanks @Doramfor talking through it with me / the essential tip about soaking the tubes in water.

Please note I have little DIY experience, I thought taking the tubes off / putting them on the new brass connectors would be easy. It IS NOT.

These 6mm brass connectors are tedious to fit onto the tubes and I think that maybe a different type of connector would be easier with a smaller first step to help guide it into the silicon tube, just like the lelit ones. Doram mentioned that the lelit 4 way connector (that you swap for the 3 way) has a 5mm smaller step and then it goes to 6 (or 7) mm. See attached the difference between the lelit one (left) and the ebay brass 6mm one (right). The lelit one is easier to slide on. I think I tried to push it in too far hence why It was so much harder for me. I didn't realise that 1-2 steps would be enough, but I wanted to make sure I wouldn't ever have to do this again. Maybe someone can find an easier brass connector (or even plastic) for future users of this mod?

One KEY point (which I found out after 1h in) is the need to soften the silicone tubes in boiling water for about 10 seconds, maybe longer. I did this with a double walled espresso shot glass to keep the water boiling / refilled when needed.

The bottom inner casing of my Mara X (on the left side) is razor sharp, I didn't notice until there was a good amount of blood on my beige carpet, white tshirt... any tips on how to remove blood stains🙃? Please be careful! See pictures of razor sharp edge attached.

The existing pipe from the pump inlet to the t connector was too short for me to fit the connector to, this is how I cut up (both) of my hands. I think this would be the most difficult part for most. You can't pull that pump inlet out as there is no wiggle room. After 45 minutes (connected the first 2) I could not get it to fit. I would recommend to connect to the pump inlet first. Pull the tube from the OPV discharge out, don't bother cutting it. Cut a longer tube - about 3 inches from the water tank pipe / from any spare tubing and heat this up properly, submerge it in boiling water. Then quickly whilst it is hot - try to fit the new tube to the plastic pump inlet.

Please see pictures of the final mod, and a video with a blind basket. I measured the water at the end, now only 30ml comes out of the OPV, I do not know how much came out before in total per shot into the drip tray. Maybe someone else can measure / post a video of this pre-mod.

2-3 shots later, I haven't had any issue with the pump pressure, it is the same as before, just below 10. The preinfusion ramps up at the same speed too. Other than less water wastage, the machine is working exactly the same as before. I ran it without the case just to be sure.

Would I recommend doing this mod? YES... but maybe see if you can find an easier to fit connector, and heat up the pipes right off the bat!

Thanks again @Doram

Now just to wait for my flow control to arrive and I will install that, and I think that will be me set (for a while) without the temptation or need to upgrade this Mara X with both of these mods hahahehehwhaah. I hope.....

































/monthly_2020_11/943387191_MaraXwaterwastereductionmod(1).mp4.8f2e6db717ab7e31df7d591e1ae54703.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment 943387191_MaraXwaterwastereductionmod(1).mp4


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@kico- how did you make a coffee with a blind basket, at the very end? I'm intrigued! 🤣

Good write up! What a great machine this is. I just wish Lelit sees this and changes the design.


----------



## kico

I actually think the halfords plastic one, or similar style linked above seem like the best option - https://www.halfords.com/tools/fuses-electricals-and-fixings/fixings/halfords-hose-connector-y-piece-6mm-hfx373-869180.html

They seem less than 6mm at the edges, maybe 5.5mm which will make all the difference.


----------



## Doram

Thanks for sharing this @kico, and congratulations on a job well done! Your photos look good and the video clearly shows the mod working perfectly - it's up to pressure as normal with water recycled instead of being dumped (with an un-modded machine there would be a constant flow to the drip tray).

With yours, @Oxnwastl, mine and at least a few others who have it working properly, I think it is safe to say that the issues that @iseebirdsfly reported are isolated. To me they seem unrelated to the mod TBH. If anyone else tried it - please share your experience for others to learn.

As for the difficulty you had fitting the tubes to the connectors, I think you may have had an easier time if you heated the tubes a little more. I just boiled some water in a small saucepan and dipped the tube directly in it for 20-30 seconds, then the tube went on the connector very easily. 10 seconds in a small shot glass as you did would not heat the tube enough, and I could see why fitting to the connector would be harder.
You could, as you suggested, try to find a smaller connector (say 5 instead of 6 mm), but I really think this wouldn't be necessary. If you look at the picture below, you can see the thick part of the original X connector on which the tube is fitted is 7mm, so the 6mm connector shouldn't be a problem at all (and for me it wasn't).


----------



## kico

Doram said:


> Thanks for sharing this@Kico, and congratulations on a job well done! Your photos look good and the video clearly shows the mod working perfectly - it's up to pressure as normal with water recycled instead of being dumped (with an un-modded machine there would be a constant flow to the drip tray).
> With yours, @Oxnwastl, mine and at least a few others who have it working properly, I think it is safe to say that the issues that @iseebirdsfly reported are isolated. To me they seem unrelated to the mod TBH. If anyone else tried it - please share your experience for others to learn.
> As for the difficulty you had fitting the tubes to the connectors, I think you may have had an easier time if you heated the tubes a little more. I just boiled some water in a small saucepan and dipped the tube directly in it for 20-30 seconds, then the tube went on the connector very easily. 10 seconds in a small shot glass as you did would not heat the tube enough, and I could see why fitting to the connector would be harder.
> You could, as you suggested, try to find a smaller connector (say 5 instead of 6 mm), but I really think this wouldn't be necessary. If you look at the picture below, you can see the thick part of the original X connector on which the tube is fitted is 7mm, so the 6mm connector shouldn't be a problem at all (and for me it wasn't).
> <img alt="1552398229_xconnector.thumb.jpeg.b75ee66d7b07e534ed96bc728b27554c.jpeg" data-fileid="48819" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_11/1552398229_xconnector.thumb.jpeg.b75ee66d7b07e534ed96bc728b27554c.jpeg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Hmm I did actually leave it soaking for 30 seconds now thinking about it, not sure why I found it so difficult. Maybe I was unlucky with a slightly tighter tube or larger brass connector!

Hopefully nobody else has such a difficult time fitting the connectors!!

Would be great if somebody took a similar video without the mod to show visually the difference. No, I will not undo this just for example purposes 

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


----------



## zellleonhart

Ordered the parts and hope that they arrive around the same time with my Mara X itself!

I have one more question - is the clearance near where the Y and T connectors big enough for a normal sized hand to fix it? Or do I have to remove the back panel shown in the blue arrow in the pic below?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Don't forget @kico that the Lelit X connector is not barbed either. So, if you one day decide to revert the mod, make sure the hoses are clamped or tighten otherwise they may slip off. I'm speaking from experience here. 😉

Moreover, regarding your Halfords fittings... are they food safe? B&Q do similar fittings and are made with food grade materials designed for home brewing.


----------



## Doram

zellleonhart said:


> I have one more question - is the clearance near where the Y and T connectors big enough for a normal sized hand to fix it? Or do I have to remove the back panel shown in the blue arrow in the pic below?


 I didn't take the back off to do the mod. Removing it would certainly give easier access to the hoses and connectors, but when I weighed the effort (it's bolted to the inside of the machine, so a bit more than just removing screws) against the benefit, I decided to leave it on. I wouldn't say you can easily fit your hand in (I have big hands, lol), but you don't really need to. You just pull the hoses a little and you have the access you need.

The level of difficulty is subjective, of course. I found it to be very easy (and I have never done anything like this before, but I don't mind some low-level DIY), but @kico found that it wasn't easy to fit the hoses to the connectors. He also said he is not used to DIY, but still managed the project in two hours, so I would say it is doable for most people. (for time guidance, maybe 30 minutes if you are very comfortable with DIY, an hour on average if you can do some DIY, or two hours if you never do any DIY?)

In a nutshell, the job is: 1) Take cover off; 2) Disconnect 4 hoses from an X (4-way) connector and connect 3 of them to a Y (3-way) connector; 3) Take the 4th hose from stage 2 and connect it to an existing hose by adding a T (3-way) connector/junction on that hose; 4) Put cover back on.
Anyone who considers doing this mod needs to assess for themselves if this is something they can do or not.


----------



## kico

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Don't forget @kico that the Lelit X connector is not barbed either. So, if you one day decide to revert the mod, make sure the hoses are clamped or tighten otherwise they may slip off. I'm speaking from experience here. 😉
> 
> Moreover, regarding your Halfords fittings... are they food safe? B&Q do similar fittings and are made with food grade materials designed for home brewing.


 The halford fittings that doram linked do state they are food safe, I really do think these would be easier to install!


----------



## kico

zellleonhart said:


> Ordered the parts and hope that they arrive around the same time with my Mara X itself!
> 
> I have one more question - is the clearance near where the Y and T connectors big enough for a normal sized hand to fix it? Or do I have to remove the back panel shown in the blue arrow in the pic below?


 I wouldn't say it is necessary, try it first by warming the tubes and check the sides of the case aren't sharp, if they are put a towel over them.



Doram said:


> The level of difficulty is subjective, of course. I found it to be very easy (and I have never done anything like this before, but I don't mind some low-level DIY), but @kico found that it wasn't easy to fit the hoses to the connectors. He also said he is not used to DIY, but still managed the project in two hours, so I would say it is doable for most people. (for time guidance, maybe 30 minutes if you are very comfortable with DIY, an hour on average if you can do some DIY, or two hours if you never do any DIY?)
> 
> In a nutshell, the job is: 1) Take cover off; 2) Disconnect 4 hoses from an X (4-way) connector and connect 3 of them to a Y (3-way) connector; 3) Take the 4th hose from stage 2 and connect it to an existing hose by adding a T (3-way) connector/junction on that hose; 4) Put cover back on.
> Anyone who considers doing this mod needs to assess for themselves if this is something they can do or not.


 I think the main reason why it took so long was because I had a tiny screwdriver, and because I didn't know to warm the tubes up prior, had I known this I don't see how it can take much longer than 1h, with the plastic connectors you linked, think it would be even faster, maybe 30m for a non-DIY person. They may be ever so slightly softer / give way a little more to help guide into the tubes.

It's a great mod, just rerouting the excess water from the opv to the water tank instead of dumping it in the drip tray. This means reducing one connector from 4 to 3, and changing another connector to accommodate the taken out pipe + direct it back to the water tank.

Really impressed with the water reduction. Lelit made a mistake not doing it like this from the factory....


----------



## DavecUK

Wet the fitting before sliding the tubes on, the water eventually evaporates, unlike lubricant.


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## kico

5 back to back double shots later (within 5m of each other) , just over 100ml in the drip tray. Stable pressure, stable temp

Very happy!!!!!









Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## Hellmann

Hi,

I did this mod friday and I'm really happy so far and ist works without any noticable issues.

Thanks to your step-by-step guide, it was a pleasure to change the connections.

What I asked myself: the label on my pump says „max degree 35" could that be a problem in the future?

greetings,

Hellmann


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## kico

Hellmann said:


> Hi,
> I did this mod friday and I'm really happy so far and ist works without any noticable issues.
> Thanks to your step-by-step guide, it was a pleasure to change the connections.
> 
> What I asked myself: the label on my pump says „max degree 35" could that be a problem in the future?
> 
> greetings,
> 
> Hellmann


Where does it say this? Which pump?

Which method of install did you go for, rerouting without any cutting of the plastic water tank? 
If so how did you find the connecting the pipes to the brass connectors (was it easy)?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## Hellmann

I did the mod with rerouting it to the pump.

I will attach some pictures, so you can have a look. I will attach as well a picture where you can see the mentioned max. degrees.

It was easy to connect them, i heated them all for a short time in hot water.

Sorry, I dont see an option for pictures here, so I made a folder:

https://pinguinbau.de/nextcloud/index.php/s/yywqRg7CYZB5twr


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## DavecUK

The temperature is not a problem because the water from the expansion valve won't be hot when the pump is running and any that comes out of the boiler as it performs it's expansion function...will be so small that it won't matter e.g. a teaspoon full.


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## Hellmann

Thanks for your answer That was what I thought, but I wanted to ask it


----------



## DavecUK

Hellmann said:


> Thanks for your answer That was what I thought, but I wanted to ask it


 In the bad old days (long time ago now) the odd manufacturer, who shall be nameless used to use an expansion valve on the hot side of the boiler...it was not a great idea and always gave problems.


----------



## Hellmann

DavecUK said:


> In the bad old days (long time ago now) the odd manufacturer, who shall be nameless used to use an expansion valve on the hot side of the boiler...it was not a great idea and always gave problems.


 🤣🤣


----------



## kico

Hellmann said:


> It was easy to connect them, i heated them all for a short time in hot water.
> 
> Sorry, I dont see an option for pictures here, so I made a folder:
> 
> https://pinguinbau.de/nextcloud/index.php/s/yywqRg7CYZB5twr


 How long did you heat them for? It seems like removing the back cover was a better option than struggling with it on, easy to heat up the tubes too!

I clearly didn't heat them well enough / should've wet the connectors too like Dave suggested.


----------



## DavecUK

Hellmann said:


> 🤣🤣


 For anyone who thinks I'm joking... One arrow is the expansion valve, the other is the fitting with a pipe straight to the group (thermosyphon). Every time the pump ran at 9 bar, hot water from the HX unit passed through the expansion valve. They got some advice and of course no longer do this.


----------



## Hellmann

kico said:


> How long did you heat them for? It seems like removing the back cover was a better option than struggling with it on, easy to heat up the tubes too!
> 
> I clearly didn't heat them well enough / should've wet the connectors too like Dave suggested.


 Well I can't say how long... as long as they needed🙈 you'll need some patiance.


----------



## Doram

Hellmann said:


> will attach some pictures, so you can have a look. I will attach as well a picture where you can see the mentioned max. degrees.
> 
> It was easy to connect them, i heated them all for a short time in hot water.


 Very nice, glad you found it easy and another one working well (I saw you took of the back cover, so lots of access there, lok ). Enjoy the moc! 🙂

@kico - if you heated the tubes in water, you already wetted them. 🙂 I think the issue might have been too small a vessel (shot glass) - you lose heat quickly in a small cup, and also when pouring from the kettle to a cold (or at least not boiling) cup. I just dipped the tubes in the pot I boiled the water in, so I assume it was hotter.


----------



## DC Scott

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread! I ordered 2 brass y-connectors thinking that depending on how this thread went I would give it a shot.

This afternoon I opened up my machine just to take a look. It seemed easy enough, so I went ahead and did it (OPV now goes into new Y-connector which goes into pump). I didn't have any trouble getting the tubes off the old connectors and on to the new ones. In fact, one was loose enough that I added a wire tie just to make sure it didn't come loose later. The only one I struggled with at all was the end I cut from the loop in the tank (in order to make a new short section to go from the Y into the pump). But I heated that up in some boiling water as mentioned here and it went on with a little bit of twisting and pushing.

I have a theory: with brand new machines, the ends of the tubes are more elastic and tighter and therefore harder to get on and off of connectors. My machine is now 8 months old and the ends of the tubes have maybe lost some elasticity.

I made a few shots and then did a backflush which my machine was due for. Everything works great, just uses less water!


----------



## GeR87

Hi everyone!

Thanks for this mod, I've made it yesterday and all goes OK.

The only thing that scared me, was in the first flush with the blind basket. Some air was ejected from the OPV and I saw air bubbles entering to the pump. With 2-3 more flushes, that air disappeared, so I thought that all was right. Despiste that air, the pressure always reached 10bars.

Thanks again and sorry for my English, I'm not from the UK😇


----------



## iseebirdsfly

I'm sorry if I scared anyone 😅. I think I have a resolution of my case. Apparently the solenoid valve was getting stuck from time to time in open position and this allowed pump to draw air in through OPV. I figured it out because two days later after my last post the solenoid valve got completely stuck in open position and then it was obvious how the air is getting in.

Obviously this also causes pressure drop (or not building at all when it is stuck) and water running from the steam wand and I mentioned these symptoms before but I didn't know what is causing it.

As for solenoid valve I struggled for 3 days trying to understand the machine and what is going on. The fact that I had no coffee didn't help either 😴. After I understood that solenoid valve is open I added descaler and tried to run pump, open steam and so on. This actually didn't help and I was ready to service it but decided to give it last chance and lightly tapped the valve with a wrench a few times and it did the trick and got valve unstuck 🤠.

It never got stuck after that. Pressure never dropped and everything is working perfectly. However I have to say that I disconnected OPV tube from the pump while investigating and the end still just sits directly in the reservoir. I think the mod was not an issue and plan to reroute it back to the pump eventually.

I'm not sure what got solenoid valve stuck in the first place especially that apparently it was getting stuck and unstuck all by itself for some time before it failed completely. I use soft bottled water but maybe I need to test it with a hardness test just to be sure. Or maybe its just some coffee ground. Probably moving the machine to do the mod let this particle loose and it got stuck in the valve.

P.S: I saw questions about tube crossing. My last attempt was crossing tubes but if you read what I just wrote you know that there is no difference how you put the tubes. The problem was caused by solenoid valve and if it is open then pump will draw air no matter how tubes are connected.

This video is about Mara, but the valve is in the same place on MaraX just slightly different.






P.S2: On the side note, you can notice in the video how tube from OPV is routed back to the reservoir on Mara 🌊


----------



## Doram

iseebirdsfly said:


> I'm sorry if I scared anyone with the mod 😅. I think I have a resolution of my case. Apparently the solenoid valve was getting stuck from time to time in open position and this allowed pump to draw in air through OPV. I figured it out because two days later after my last post the solenoid valve got completely stuck in open position and then it was obvious how the air is getting in.


 Thanks for reporting this and good to hear you found a solution to the problem and confirmed it was unrelated to the mod (Ad I told you right from the start...).

I know for a fact that your issue scared people from doing the mod, which is a shame because it is such an improvement to the machine and so easy to do (I know you agree, lol).

Hopefully those who were deterred have also seen that all the brave who have tried it are enjoying a better experience with Mara X with no issues. Your confirmation puts the success rate at 100%. 😊


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

iseebirdsfly said:


> However I have to say that I disconnected OPV tube from the pump while investigating and the end still just sits directly in the reservoir. I think the mod was not an issue and plan to reroute it back to the pump eventually.


 How is the tube going back to the reservoir? Did you cut a bit of the tank off?


----------



## Oxnwastl

Anyone noticed the pump became louder after the mod?

I live in a gallery apartment and sleep basically in the same room. When I turn the machine on with the smart plug in the morning the filling of the boiler is very intense. It's hard to remember how it was before and maybe my memory plays a trick on me. I'm still very happy with the mod and don't want to go back.


----------



## DavecUK

Oxnwastl said:


> Anyone noticed the pump became louder after the mod?
> 
> I live in a gallery apartment and sleep basically in the same room. When I turn the machine on with the smart plug in the morning the filling of the boiler is very intense. It's hard to remember how it was before and maybe my memory plays a trick on me. I'm still very happy with the mod and don't want to go back.


 It's actually possible that it could make the pump slightly louder...because the pump may be getting some slight amount of positive pressure at the inlet.


----------



## Doram

Oxnwastl said:


> Anyone noticed the pump became louder after the mod?


 I haven't noticed any change in the sound of the pump.



DavecUK said:


> It's actually possible that it could make the pump slightly louder...because the pump may be getting some slight amount of positive pressure at the inlet.


 @DavecUK - Do you mean there could be a positive pressure when a one way no return valve is fit on the hose coming from the tank?

Without a no return valve, there is just an opening between the tank and the hose, and any excess water/pressure coming from the opv would just enter the tank, and not create any positive pressure on the pump's inlet - is that right?


----------



## DavecUK

I was thinking more of back pressure from the filter and fact that rerouting expansion valve to from inlet "might" make it slightly noisier.... might not of course.


----------



## Doram

DavecUK said:


> I was thinking more of back pressure from the filter.


 Ah, so not relevant for those who don't use the filter then? (or did I misunderstand?).

As I said, I didn't notice any change in the pump noise.

@Oxnwastl - do you have the in-tank filter installed?


----------



## itguy

Just wanted to let everyone know that I've been running this mod now for about 2 weeks on my MaraX, with in tank filter in use and NO non-return valve. No issues what so ever.

Have never had any air in the tube, the in tank filter has never come unseated. Machine always warms up perfectly and operates as it should.

Incredible how much less water it uses in normal day to day operations. I used to be filling it every other day, now once every 4 days or so.

Excellent mod, thanks @Doram and @DavecUK


----------



## Avner

Wow! Thank you for this great mod. I just finished doing mine and found out that it can be improved. My improvment eliminate any need for extra parts. Here how it goes:

Just above the X connector, the one we remove one pipe from, there is a Y connector leading into the top of the boiler. So instead of replacing the X connector with a Y (or T) connector I remove the Y connector and use the X connector for the remaining 4 lines. The existing Y connector is moved to connecting the pump input to both the tank and the line we brought in from the OPV.

This has the same effect with no need to wait for extra parts. Good luck.


----------



## Doram

Avner said:


> Wow! Thank you for this great mod. I just finished doing mine and found out that it can be improved. My improvment eliminate any need for extra parts. Here how it goes:
> 
> Just above the X connector, the one we remove one pipe from, there is a Y connector leading into the top of the boiler. So instead of replacing the X connector with a Y (or T) connector I remove the Y connector and use the X connector for the remaining 4 lines. The existing Y connector is moved to connecting the pump input to both the tank and the line we brought in from the OPV.


 Thanks for sharing this. Sounds like an awesome solution! 💪


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## ekrizon

Thanks everyone for this, sounds awesome! It is hard for me to find Y connectors here that won't take 2 months to get to me. Could I use two T connectors or would that limit the flow too much?

Also interested in any more info you could provide @Avnermaybe some pictures of how it looks. If that is solid and reliable, no extra parts sounds enticing!


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## Doram

ekrizon said:


> Could I use two T connectors or would that limit the flow too much?


 I don't see why two T connectors wouldn't work, it's only water that needs to pass through.

As for the suggestion to use the connectors in the machine, I think it will be easier to understand if you take the cover off and have a look inside. The X connector is fed from a above it by a tube that comes off blue plastic Y connector. I think @Avner suggested to move the X connector instead of the Y connector (therefore freeing the Y connector to be used on the other side to connect the OPV discharge to the pump inlet). Hopefully Avner can post some picture and explanations of the hose connections he made for those who want to utilize the existing connectors in the machine as suggested.


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## DavecUK

I want photos please..... 👍


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## MediumRoastSteam

Avner said:


> Wow! Thank you for this great mod. I just finished doing mine and found out that it can be improved. My improvment eliminate any need for extra parts. Here how it goes:
> 
> Just above the X connector, the one we remove one pipe from, there is a Y connector leading into the top of the boiler. So instead of replacing the X connector with a Y (or T) connector I remove the Y connector and use the X connector for the remaining 4 lines. The existing Y connector is moved to connecting the pump input to both the tank and the line we brought in from the OPV.
> 
> This has the same effect with no need to wait for extra parts. Good luck.


 Very clever. That defo works. One work of caution: Note the X connector is not barbed. Please keep an eye on that for the first few days as the hose might slip off, specially as those hoses have been placed on other connectors (i.e.: are no longer brand new) - or, take the safe approach and use cable ties or a clamp to secure the silicone hose against the X connector.


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## iseebirdsfly

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How is the tube going back to the reservoir? Did you cut a bit of the tank off?


 No, I didn't cut the tank. I just unscrewed the top of the machine and put the end of the tube through that front cutoff in the middle of the tank. The top cannot be closed properly so I only screwed the front of it while the back part is lifted because of tube . Just a temporary solution.


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## shaunlawler

Just come across this invaluable 'mod'.

Brass Y and T connectors ordered and looking forward to getting this done (and not mucking it up)...


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## Jasper Velders

Same here, got mine coming this week.


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## shaunlawler

I did this 'mod' today and all seems to be working so far.

The T and Y connectors were a bit of a pain to install on the tubing, especially the one closest to the pump inlet. Quick tip - when you cut the tube at the inlet pump to install the T connector, make sure you allow for at least a couple of inches at the inlet pump tubing end as if it's too short it is extremely frustrating to try and get the T connector on (I spent the best part of an hour trying to do this).

Anyway, it's done now and will save me from having to constantly keep emptying the drip tray and refilling with water.

Thanks to everyone who recommended this!


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## nschnei1

Greetings all - I completed this mod yesterday and it's working great! It was easy enough to complete, and I'm excited to save the water 

One thing catches my eye; I'm not sure it's an issue, but wanted to poll this audience for input: each time the machine runs and the OPV engages (either pulling a shot, or running a backflush), some air rises to the top of the intake hose in the tank. I use the resin filter in the tank, and I see the air in the hose that connects it to the machine.

Some more context: I've probably run 8-10 backflushes and pulled ~5 shots since completing the mod, and watching closely to see if it'll eventually pull all the air from the circuit that was left over in the hose from the original OPV routing to the drip tray. No luck. When the air bubble appears, I can run the pump without any resistance and the air is flushed out and does not reappear. But then, inevitably, the next time the pump runs and OPV engages, the air appears again. I have the case screwed closed again, so I haven't looked at any of the hoses inside the machine to watch when or where the air appears internally. All I know is it appears in the tank each time. It has not affected the operation of the machine, I guess the air is pushed through the pump during pre-infusion when I pull a shot, so sustaining pressure isn't an issue. One last note -- by pure coincidence, my machine suffered a (spontaneous?) water charge solenoid failure a couple of weeks ago. My local dealer replaced it under warranty. So, it's safe to assume that everything else internal is working as expected. Everything is working correctly, coffee tastes good, pressure is steady, etc. Just this little air bubble.

Any ideas? is this even an issue long-term? I could just keep an eye on this and see if eventually all the air is flushed out after a few more days of operation, if that wouldn't risk the pump or anything.


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## Doram

nschnei1 said:


> Everything is working correctly, coffee tastes good, pressure is steady, etc.


 If everything is working correctly, I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about.
Perhaps @DavecUK can explain what you see and confirm if it's ok?


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## 1823Dave

I installed this mod last night, along with the one way valve, and it works flawlessly! It's a feature I had wished the MaraX had from the start, so when I spotted this thread I immediately bought the parts and modded it. Thanks for the detailed write-up and images, it helped loads. Thanks @Doram and others!


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## DavecUK

Doram said:


> If everything is working correctly, I wouldn't think you have anything to worry about.
> Perhaps @DavecUK can explain what you see and confirm if it's ok?


 It's the highest point in the system, I suppose if any air gets in it's goring to sit there... Interestingly Vibe pumps can have de-aerators (much less common now), but they are always after the pump, not before. So a bit of air in the inlet pipe now and again won't do any harm at all.

Vibe pumps van be damaged by running dry, but only for extended periods. A short period where the pump has an air bubble but is still wet inside, the piston running in the nylon sleeve is still well lubricated, even if it's sucking a bit of air and water, it won't damage it...they are not the same as rotary pumps.

If the pressure is OK and steady and the shots are good...don't worry about it.


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## cengland117

Just successfully completed the mod - thank you for posting this. As a bottled water user, I will really appreciate the water savings. Really good instructions and it is nice and straight forward. I ended up taking the tank panel off to deal with the X connector. It does involve a few more screws but it does make access so much easier. I used two Y connectors off Amazon which worked a treat and managed to fit without softening the tubes.

Saim 5pcs 6mm Hose Y Shape 3 Ways Air Gas Brass Barb Fitting Connector https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LZASY8Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_xLF6FbP5JQ982?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## eduk

Another one completed today. @Doram, thanks for the links to the items required and for taking the time to document how to do it. 👍


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram - quick! Off to the patent office before Lelit do that themselves! 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Doram - quick! Off to the patent office before Lelit do that themselves! 😂😂😂😂😂


 Of course, I am the first person in history to discover the idea of re-using OPV discharge water. I came up with this geniusity right after I finished inventing the wheel (and the word geniousity). 💡


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## itguy

Just a quick update from me

On the other MaraX general thread I posted about having an occasional issue where the brew pressure would 'wobble' a bit, quite rapidly and you could hear the pump warbling a bit too at the same time. A bit like water starvation or a bit of air in the system somewhere.

I decided to open my machine up just to see if I could spot anything and did notice a bit of air in the OPV pipe at the top. Probably about 6cm worth of air in the tube.

I also noticed that the pipe from the bottom of the tank supply coupling to the (new) T piece to the pump inlet was really quite long and went down, round and back up again - certainly not a smooth straight path.

I have already got some other spare tube so I replaced the tank to pump T with a much shorter piece with a much more direct path.

Whilst doing so it seems to have got the air out of the OPV tube at the same time and since doing this, I have had zero issues with pump pressure at all.

I wanted to post it on here just in case anyone else gets any funny oddities in the future at any point.


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## jaffro

Thanks for the walk though. I thought it would be more difficult, but looks quite simple to be fair!

Just ordered a 6mm Y and T connector off ebay, so I'll give this a go.

As someone using zerowater, seeing the water drain into the drip tray is a bit frustrating.

Now I just need to fix up the gaggia classic so I can sell it and buy the flow control kit, then I'll finally leave the machine alone...


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## borez

Happy New Year everyone, and ordered parts to execute this mod. This is my dream come true - and Lelit should implement this!


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## zellleonhart

Hi all, I have just received my Mara X yesterday and I already have the parts with me. I opened up the casing even before the first use of the machine, so everything inside is cold, not warmed up or anything. I hesitated because I tried very hard but couldn't pull the first tube (to OPV) from the X connector. With the tight clearance I cannot imagine detaching all 4 tubes from the X connector and replace with the Y connector.

Is there anyway to loosen the tubes? I know warming the connector/tube will help but if I turn on the machine for some time and off later to mod, I am afraid of the risk burning myself.


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## Doram

zellleonhart said:


> Hi all, I have just received my Mara X yesterday and I already have the parts with me. I opened up the casing even before the first use of the machine, so everything inside is cold, not warmed up or anything. I hesitated because I tried very hard but couldn't pull the first tube (to OPV) from the X connector. With the tight clearance I cannot imagine detaching all 4 tubes from the X connector and replace with the Y connector.
> 
> Is there anyway to loosen the tubes? I know warming the connector/tube will help but if I turn on the machine for some time and off later to mod, I am afraid of the risk burning myself.


 I understand your eagerness to do the mod first thing, I would probably feel the same, but I think it would be wiser to use the machine and confirm everything is working properly before making any changes. If you don't - anything funny going on you will suspect is the mod's fault, and of course if you are unlucky to get a faulty machine or need to send it back for any reason, it is better to check it as stock first. You will also appreciate the mod more if you see how much water the machine wastes first. .

As to removing the tubes from the connectors - this should definitely be done on a cold machine. But cold is room temperature in the house, not a cold machine that was just delivered from freezing outside and potentially spent many nights in frosty warehouses which I imagine can mean stiffer tubes. After using the machine to confirm it is working, and being in the house, I assume you will find the tubes come off more easily (I don't remember anyone else mentioning this was a problem). You can use something like the end of thin pliers or scissors to help push both sides of tube off the connector at the same time rather than pulling it. Also twisting the tube from side to side over the connector can help loosen it. In any case, as it seems you are determined to do it, I am quite confident you will manage. Good luck with it and enjoy your new machine!


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## zellleonhart

Doram said:


> I understand your eagerness to do the mod first thing, I would probably feel the same, but I think it would be wiser to use the machine and confirm everything is working properly before making any changes. If you don't - anything funny going on you will suspect is the mod's fault, and of course if you are unlucky to get a faulty machine or need to send it back for any reason, it is better to check it as stock first. You will also appreciate the mod more if you see how much water the machine wastes first. .
> 
> As to removing the tubes from the connectors - this should definitely be done on a cold machine. But cold is room temperature in the house, not a cold machine that was just delivered from freezing outside and potentially spent many nights in frosty warehouses which I imagine can mean stiffer tubes. After using the machine to confirm it is working, and being in the house, I assume you will find the tubes come off more easily (I don't remember anyone else mentioning this was a problem). You can use something like the end of thin pliers or scissors to help push both sides of tube off the connector at the same time rather than pulling it. Also twisting the tube from side to side over the connector can help loosen it. In any case, as it seems you are determined to do it, I am quite confident you will manage. Good luck with it and enjoy your new machine!


 Thanks for the kind words, indeed I had the same thought to try the machine at its stock configuration first to make sure everything is working as it should. I have pulled about 6 shots and made 3 milk drinks, everything is working as it should.

I found the video by Lelit Insider showing how to remove the back panel, it's easier than I thought and I will do it this weekend. Happy with it so far!


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## borez

Doram said:


> *What?*
> This easy mod is to re-rout the water discharged from the over pressure valve (OPV) so that instead of being dumped in the drip tray and wasted, it will get reused in the machine. The mod is easy, cheap, invisible and completely reversible.
> 
> *Why?*
> One of the very few complaints about the Mara X is that it dumps the OPV discharge water to the drip tray. Re-routing will (a) reduce water waste; (b) reduce the water that ends in the drip tray. This results in less need to fill the tank and less emptying of the tray.
> 
> *How much water will be saved? Is this worth doing?*
> The amount of OPV water discharge varies by shot time and puck resistance (For example, @disq measured that 85ml of water was reclaimed in a ~49 second shot; My own experiment showed that water in the drip tray after one heating cycle and shot reduced from 125mm before re-routing to 40mm after - so about the same). This is not a huge amount, but it adds up, and if you invest in the water (bottled, re-mineralise etc.), you might not want to through it away and fill the drip tray with it.
> 
> *So why does Lelit dump the water to the drip tray? Is there a disadvantage to re-routing?*
> Many (most) tanked machines return the OPV discharge water back to the tank. (e.g. Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia, Lelit Elizabeth and more). This was also the case in the first prototype of the Mara X, but that was changed in the production model.
> 
> According to @DavecUK, the dumping of the water to the drip tray was meant to enable provision for a neat in-tank filter in the bottom-fed water tank, with no messy tubes entering from the top. However, you can do this mod and still use the in-tank filter; and if you don't use the filter - it's even easier.
> 
> *How hard is it to do the mode?*
> This mod is very easy. I took my time and maybe spent an hour, but the actual job is very quick: just pop a few tubes from their fittings and connect them differently.
> 
> *What parts are needed?*
> The mod requires two 3-way 6mm connectors (cost £6) and that's it. I used one Y-shape and one T-shape, but you can do it with two Y connectors. I used brass for durability and heat resistance, but you might be able to get away with plastic connectors).
> 
> Y connector: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRASS-barbed-Hose-Y-Splitter-Joiner-Connector-Available-in-4-sizes/302640867070?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=601489110379&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> T connector: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLID-BRASS-barbed-Hose-T-splitter-joiner-connector-Available-in-6-sizes/301942646786?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=600744504401&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> (Halfords sell a pair of plastic Y connectors if you don't want to wait for brass to come in the post: https://www.halfords.com/tools/fuses-electricals-and-fixings/fixings/halfords-hose-connector-y-piece-6mm-hfx373-869180.html).
> 
> *Optional parts:*
> @DavecUK suggested fitting a one-way no-return valve if you want to keep using the in-tank filter: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/One-Way-Valve-Sprung-Plastic-Barbed-Non-Return-Inline-Water-Air-Car-Gas-Liquid/251338340002?hash=item3a84eeb6a2:g:5xQAAOxyNExSMi3I. (This part is to ensure that water from the OPV discharge will not push back to the tank, potentially lifting the in-tank filter from its seat).
> 
> @MediumRoastSteam suggested using cable ties on the connections to secure them, and extra silicone tubing so that you can keep the original tubing intact if you want to reverse the mod. I didn't use cable ties as my fittings a barbed and seem very secure as they are. I also didn't need any extra tubing: I 'borrowed' 4-5cm of tube from the in-tank hose loop that I don't need (because I don't use the filter), and kept the original tubes inside the machine intact (so everything is reversible to original condition). However, I found that the tube from the bottom of the tank to the pump is long enough, so if I wanted I could do all the connections without any need for extra tubing borrowed from the tank.
> 
> *I am convinced, what do I need to do (see pics below)?*
> 1) Remove the top panel and the main part of the case of the machine. See instructions in DaveC's excellent video here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2) Identify the OPV (pic below). Follow the hose that comes out of it. It terminates in a brass X connector.
> 
> 3) Carefully remove the OPV hose from the X connector, and re-route it behind the boiler to the other side of the machine (to where the hose from the bottom of the tank enters the pump - pic below).
> 
> 4) Either cut the hose connected to the pump a few cm above the entry and connect the T connector to the hose (or use a few cm of new hose to connect the T connector to the pump's entry). Use the free connection on the T to connect the hose from the OPV. That's the re-routing of the OPV discharge done.**
> 
> 5) (optional): if you want to use the in-tank filter, connect a one-way (no-return) valve on the hose between the tank and the pump. This will ensure the OPV discharge water will not return to the tank and push against the filter (I didn't do this stage).
> 
> 6) To finish the job, go back to the X connector where the OPV discharge hose was originally connected. Remove the 3 remaining hoses that are connected to the X connector (safety valve, solenoid and drip tray), and connect them to the new Y hose connector. Secure the connections with cable ties if you want (I didn't), and also secure the Y connector to the electrical wires (as it was originally with the X connector). (Bottom pic shows this before and after)
> 
> **An even simpler option: Just follow steps 1-3 and 6, but after removing the OPV discharge hose from the X connector route it back to the water tank (requires to make a cut in the top of the tank so that the cover of the tank can sit flush), or route the hose to a bottle next to or under the machine. Both these options are possible, but of course less elegant than the proposed full mod.
> 
> That's it, all done. (To be safe, it might be a good idea to run the machine (carefully) with the case off to see that everything is working as it should and you have no leaks before fitting back the case (to be honest, I didn't bother).
> 
> Enjoy the machine with less water waste and less emptying of drip tray. 😊
> 
> Credits and thanks: @DavecUK, @disq, @MediumRoastSteam and all other fantastic members here for their support and contribution.
> 
> 
> View attachment 47860
> 
> View attachment 47862
> View attachment 47861


 BTW a quick question - where should one install the (optional) one way valve? At the tip of the "bottom water tank" hose? And the direction should be outward facing (i.e. allow water to flow out of the hose?)


----------



## Doram

borez said:


> where should one install the (optional) one way valve? At the tip of the disconnected OPV discharge hose? And how should the direction of the valve be - to allow water to flow out of the hose?


 No. As it states in stage 5 in the instructions, the one-way (no return) valve, if you decide to use it (and I have only seen one report of someone using it), should be installed *on the hose that goes from the bottom of the water tank to the pump*. The direction the water should be allowed to flow is of course from the tank to the pump. It will be very clear if you understand the point of that valve: it is to block water coming from the OPV discharge hose from going back to the tank and potentially that pressure into the tank lifting the in-tank filter.

 However, one person (maybe @itguy, but not sure) reported they did the mod without the one-way valve and still use the in-tank filter with no issue. So possibly the one-way valve is unnecessary even if you use the in-tank filter (you can always try without it, and fit it later if you think it is needed). Good luck with the mod!


----------



## borez

Doram said:


> No. As it states in stage 5 in the instructions, the one-way (no return) valve, if you decide to use it (and I have only seen one report of someone using it), should be installed *on the hose that goes from the bottom of the water tank to the pump*. The direction the water should be allowed to flow is of course from the tank to the pump. It will be very clear if you understand the point of that valve: it is to block water coming from the OPV discharge hose from going back to the tank and potentially that pressure into the tank lifting the in-tank filter.
> 
> However, one person (maybe @itguy, but not sure) reported they did the mod without the one-way valve and still use the in-tank filter with no issue. So possibly the one-way valve is unnecessary even if you use the in-tank filter (you can always try without it, and fit it later if you think it is needed). Good luck with the mod!


 Yes you're right. Realised how stupid my earlier answer was - revised it, but you picked up the old version.

So to confirm for everyone, the one way valve should be installed at the tip of the "bottom water tank" hose, where water should be allowed to flow outwards (from the tank to the pump.


----------



## itguy

Correct - I did the mod without the one way valve and have previously used the Lelit water filter without any issues whatsoever. I don't currently use the Lelit filter as I am using Ashbeck water but that's a different story...


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## 1823Dave

I installed the one way valve, only because I had ordered it just in case anyway. Didn't see it causing any harm by being in place, I assumed it wouldn't restrict the flow of water too much. Due to that I figured I may as well use it than not use it!


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## borez

BTW a curious afterthought - is there a possibility (however remote) that one will get a surge of pressured water arising from the OPV hose? Just curious why didn't Lelit implement this mod.


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## MediumRoastSteam

borez said:


> BTW a curious afterthought - is there a possibility (however remote) that one will get a surge of pressured water arising from the OPV hose? Just curious why didn't Lelit implement this mod.


 Water will only come out of the OPV hose when the pump is on and the circuit is under pressure. The water coming out of the OPV is not under pressure. Even if it was, it would go back to the input of the pump anyway...

There's no way the OPV will start squirting water under pressure when the pump is not running. It's impossible.


----------



## 2953

Did the mod over Christmas and very nice not having to empty the drip tray as much 

The first few shots my machine was a fair bit noisier and I thought I'd not secured the tubes enough. Now it's just as it was before apart from, presumably, hearing the water being redirected.


----------



## Doram

petebetros said:


> Did the mod over Christmas and very nice not having to empty the drip tray as much
> 
> The first few shots my machine was a fair bit noisier and I thought I'd not secured the tubes enough. Now it's just as it was before apart from, presumably, hearing the water being redirected.


 Great to hear, and welcome to the club! 🙂


----------



## borez

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Water will only come out of the OPV hose when the pump is on and the circuit is under pressure. The water coming out of the OPV is not under pressure. Even if it was, it would go back to the input of the pump anyway...
> 
> There's no way the OPV will start squirting water under pressure when the pump is not running. It's impossible.


 Very nice, thanks for sharing. Sorry if I sound paranoid, but with the one way valve installed, are there any implications when the machine "burps" (a small amount of water spills into the tray?)


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## itguy

borez said:


> Very nice, thanks for sharing. Sorry if I sound paranoid, but with the one way valve installed, are there any implications when the machine "burps" (a small amount of water spills into the tray?)


 There are still other elements of the machine that drain to the tray. The most common one of these is the vacuum breaker on the boiler. When the machine starts up from cold it will always put a bit of water/steam/spitting etc into the tray, just until the vacuum breaker seals and then it will stop. The other elements are the blow off valve (the 3bar safety valve, which should never be needed in normal operation). There is also another tube that goes to the drip tray from one of the solenoids, but I can't remember which.


----------



## zellleonhart

@Doram I successfully did the mod today! After a week's usage and removing the back panel (just need to loosen 2 small hex nuts), it's so much easier. In fact I didn't really need to heat up the tubes.

However I am a little worried about this tube because the inner diameter seems to be larger than other tubes - it slides very easily onto the 6mm Y-connector. I pushed it to the end and it seems to be fairly snug, but is this tube under any high pressure to the extent that it will slide off on its own?

Other than that, everything seems to be fine. The first shot I pull seems to be louder than usual and there's some audible vibration in the metal frame (can't identify which part) but repositioning the machine seems to eliminate it. Will see if it happens again in the next few days, it could be due to the routing of the tubes?

And lastly (sorry for being so paranoid), one of the rubber/silicone tubes seems to be touching the copper pipes coming out from the boiler - is it fine? It will not 'melt' or anything right?

On the side note, my Mara X doesn't come with this plate stabilizing the back panel... Manufactured in Oct 2020, could it be a new version that doesn't require it? hmm


----------



## Doram

zellleonhart said:


> However I am a little worried about this tube because the inner diameter seems to be larger than other tubes - it slides very easily onto the 6mm Y-connector.


 You mentioned "this" tube (twice!), but didn't say which tube you mean. 🙂 If you mean the OPV discharge, then as far as I remember all the tubes involved in the mod were of the same diameter. There are tubes of different thickness in the machine, but they were not involved, so I hope you didn't mix anything up! (if it's working as normal, then you should be okay I guess).

As far as I understand, the moded part is never under pressure, so if the connections are snug you shouldn't have a problem of them coming undone. However, if you want to be overly cautious you can always fit a cable-tie over the tube to secure the connection.

I would also assume the tubes are heat resistant, but I see no reason for them to touch the meal tubing. Don't think they crossed on mine. Can't you route the tubes so they don't touch? Same for any rattling sound you are getting - you shouldn't have any. If something is nearly touching and making a noise I would try to position it so it doesn't. Didn't have any such problem so can't be sure what you are getting.



zellleonhart said:


> On the side note, my Mara X doesn't come with this plate stabilizing the back panel... Manufactured in Oct 2020, could it be a new version that doesn't require it? hmm


 So the back panel just comes of with a couple of screws? Weird.


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## zellleonhart

Doram said:


> You mentioned "this" tube (twice!), but didn't say which tube you mean. 🙂 If you mean the OPV discharge, then as far as I remember all the tubes involved in the mod were of the same diameter. There are tubes of different thickness in the machine, but they were not involved, so I hope you didn't mix anything up! (if it's working as normal, then you should be okay I guess).
> 
> As far as I understand, the moded part is never under pressure, so if the connections are snug you shouldn't have a problem of them coming undone. However, if you want to be overly cautious you can always fit a cable-tie over the tube to secure the connection.
> 
> I would also assume the tubes are heat resistant, but I see no reason for them to touch the copper tubing. Don't think they crossed on mine. Can't you route the tubes so they don't touch? Same for any rattling sound you are getting - you shouldn't have any. If something is nearly touching and making a noise I would try to position it so it doesn't. Didn't have any such problem so can't be sure what you are getting.


 I removed the back panel so I forgot how the tubes were arranged before that, tomorrow morning I shall reorganized them again. I forgot to link the pic just now - this is tube I meant that was slightly loose:









And also, on a side note, my Mara X doesn't come with this plate (https://i.imgur.com/Fixyb6M.jpg) stabilizing the back panel... Manufactured in Oct 2020, could it be a new version that doesn't require it? hmm


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## Doram

zellleonhart said:


> I forgot to link the pic just now - this is tube I meant that was slightly loose:


 I think on mine this tube was the same diameter. If it's snug it's probably ok, but if you are worried, you can secure it with a cable tie.

So your back panel isn't secured to the boiler at all? That would explain why it was easy to take off, lol. Maybe Lelit decided this isn't needed, or maybe they forgot to put it on yours (would find that quite strange). Maybe @DavecUK would know. I have no idea.


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## DavecUK

@Doram Dunno, I only review what I get, they could have made a change, only someone with a machine of the same or later production date can say.


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## zellleonhart

Looks like the latest version doesn't have the bracket anymore. This video uploaded in January 2021 by Mauro shows that it is not there anymore (4:45 onwards)


----------



## Doram

zellleonhart said:


> Looks like the latest version doesn't have the bracket anymore. This video uploaded in January 2021 by Mauro shows that it is not there anymore (4:45 onwards)


 I love to watch his videos. Love love love the way he speaks English, love the casual atmosphere (his surrounding, his clothes, the little child sounds in the background). So casual, so approachable, so down to earth, so Italian. 🥰

As to your conclusion, it's a machine he is working on, he might have just removed whatever it is that connects the back panel to the machine and didn't connect everything for the video.

I think to be sure that Lelit changed the back panel assembly we will need to see another new consumer machine purchased recently.

In the meantime, if you plan to open the machine anyway, it would be interesting to see a photo or video showing how the back panel is connected on your machine.


----------



## borez

Completed this mod in two hours, and I say it works perfectly. I had to take the rear panel out for easy access. Works like a charm!

Sharing a diagram for easier reference.


----------



## Doram

borez said:


> Completed this mod in two hours, and I say it works perfectly. I had to take the rear panel out for easy access. Works like a charm!


 Looks great, well done and thanks for sharing the pic!

It seems your back cover doesn't have the bracket connecting it to the boiler (so easier to remove the back), correct? What month was it made in?


----------



## borez

Doram said:


> Looks great, well done and thanks for sharing the pic!
> 
> It seems your back cover doesn't have the bracket connecting it to the boiler (so easier to remove the back), correct? What month was it made in?


 My set does have the bracket - it's tilted and hence less obvious in the photo. My set is a Feb-20 production unit (I believe I was the first few folks in Asia to own the MaraX 😄)


----------



## itguy

@borez - how are you finding the one-way valve? I presume it is still working all ok for you. No funny pump pressure issues or anything weird ?

I only ask as I am planning on putting the one way valve in mine.

Cheers


----------



## Ilias

Just wondering about the one-way valve: is there any chance that the OPV return flow rate will be higher than the pump input flow rate ?

From what I understand the worse case scenario is that the OPV out will be 100% of the input flow (in case ppl use a blind portafilter). In every other case some of the water will return and some will go through the puck or in the main boiler.

I guess the pressure is about 10bar when exiting the opt but it will quickly drop to negative as the pump is sucking water on the other side.

Therefore, I don't see the case where water will need to exit to the tank under pressure, it will be recycled into the pump...


----------



## n863204

borez said:


> Completed this mod in two hours, and I say it works perfectly. I had to take the rear panel out for easy access. Works like a charm!
> 
> Sharing a diagram for easier reference.
> 
> View attachment 51267


 HI CAN YOU SHARE ONE WAY VALE SIDE IS? ~~ THANK~


----------



## itguy

I have actually put the one way valve on the pipe which is inside the tank, rather than like the photo above. I wanted the easy ability to remove it if there were any problems, so the in tank option seemed best.

The one way valve direction lets water be sucked up from the tank but not let water back in to it - if that makes sense.

In the photo above the one way valve allows water to flow in the direction of the red arrow.


----------



## n863204

itguy said:


> I have actually put the one way valve on the pipe which is inside the tank, rather than like the photo above. I wanted the easy ability to remove it if there were any problems, so the in tank option seemed best.
> 
> The one way valve direction lets water be sucked up from the tank but not let water back in to it - if that makes sense.
> 
> In the photo above the one way valve allows water to flow in the direction of the red arrow.


 what place set in can you explain ~~ thankS~


----------



## itguy

Not quite sure what you mean, but if you are asking where have I put it, I took the end of the pipe inside the tank that connects to the little strainer/filter on the black plastic holder inside and installed the one way valve on there, then used another small bit of pipe from the end of that to then connect to the strainer/filter again.

Next time I fill my water tank I can take a picture if you need it, but it's really quite simple.


----------



## n863204

itguy said:


> Not quite sure what you mean, but if you are asking where have I put it, I took the end of the pipe inside the tank that connects to the little strainer/filter on the black plastic holder inside and installed the one way valve on there, then used another small bit of pipe from the end of that to then connect to the strainer/filter again.
> 
> Next time I fill my water tank I can take a picture if you need it, but it's really quite simple.


 sorry my poor english

please take a picture appreciation ~~


----------



## itguy

No problem, I will do one later for you.


----------



## Merchant-Seaman

Finally decided to crack on with this mod. It's been great in terms of doing what it's meant to so thanks to everyone who thought it through and shared it!

Has anyone else noticed a change in the sound of the machine since performing this mod? Mine used to sound "refined", like a consistent low rumble. Post-mod, it sounds a bit unwell, like it's... I was trying to think of a metaphor to describe a croaking machine, ultimately decided that was a terrible way to do it so here's a video: https://youtu.be/aAz7H_UWkR4. Please excuse the current dual ethnicity with both black plastic and wood!

It just sounds a little different and the more I look at it, the pump pressure dial seems to be hovering around a little more. I don't believe this is due to the coffee - it's similar when backflushing although a little less pronounced.

I'm tempted to open it back up and take a peek inside - anyone had anything similar or knows more about machines than me and can point me to look at certain things? Or is this what I should expect with this mod?

Thanks.


----------



## DavecUK

Should I take a photo of the way I did mine....because of testing I can't do the mod the same way as the rest of you?

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57462-lelit-mara-x-returned-after-2-days/?do=embed&comment=810870&embedComment=810870&embedDo=findComment


----------



## CptSkydiver

Merchant-Seaman said:


> Finally decided to crack on with this mod. It's been great in terms of doing what it's meant to so thanks to everyone who thought it through and shared it!
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a change in the sound of the machine since performing this mod? Mine used to sound "refined", like a consistent low rumble. Post-mod, it sounds a bit unwell, like it's... I was trying to think of a metaphor to describe a croaking machine, ultimately decided that was a terrible way to do it so here's a video: https://youtu.be/aAz7H_UWkR4. Please excuse the current dual ethnicity with both black plastic and wood!
> 
> It just sounds a little different and the more I look at it, the pump pressure dial seems to be hovering around a little more. I don't believe this is due to the coffee - it's similar when backflushing although a little less pronounced.
> 
> I'm tempted to open it back up and take a peek inside - anyone had anything similar or knows more about machines than me and can point me to look at certain things? Or is this what I should expect with this mod?
> 
> Thanks.


 I've done the mod last weekend too and am seeing/hearing the same thing. Sometimes it's worse than other times and at worst I've seen the pump pressure go back and forth +-0.25 bar when at full pressure. After backflushing it's usually fine for a while. I'm planning to open the machine next weekend again to inspect what's going on, maybe move the T piece around a bit or worst case, do the mod the same way Dave did (OPV to tank).


----------



## Merchant-Seaman

DavecUK said:


> Should I take a photo of the way I did mine....because of testing I can't do the mod the same way as the rest of you?
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57462-lelit-mara-x-returned-after-2-days/?do=embed&comment=810870&embedComment=810870&embedDo=findComment





CptSkydiver said:


> I've done the mod last weekend too and am seeing/hearing the same thing. Sometimes it's worse than other times and at worst I've seen the pump pressure go back and forth +-0.25 bar when at full pressure. After backflushing it's usually fine for a while. I'm planning to open the machine next weekend again to inspect what's going on, maybe move the T piece around a bit or worst case, do the mod the same way Dave did (OPV to tank).


 I would be all for this version of the mod if it didn't require making a bit of a slot in the metal, as I understand it does? Feels like a bit less of a clean reversible mod then.

Is the noise a result of the OPV feeding back to the pump inlet then?


----------



## DavecUK

One of the issues might be the lack of a deaerator, or the pump/tubes etc.. specific design

This is how Dallacorte piped the expansion valve output, back to the inlet back in the day. The pump is a "can't remember the name" might be a Fluid-O-tech. Now the green arrow points to what is a particularly cheap and rubbish fluidotech expansion valve. The key thing is there are no other pipes connected and it's a short run, so no real opportunity for air to enter.









Another reason I did the mod my own way, apart from basic laziness.

@Merchant-SeamanI made no holes in the metal and only a small drill out section from the top left of the plastic tank...so no problem.


----------



## n863204

itguy said:


> No problem, I will do one later for you.


 I GUESS SET IN HERE IS IT ~~


----------



## n863204

Merchant-Seaman said:


> Finally decided to crack on with this mod. It's been great in terms of doing what it's meant to so thanks to everyone who thought it through and shared it!
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a change in the sound of the machine since performing this mod? Mine used to sound "refined", like a consistent low rumble. Post-mod, it sounds a bit unwell, like it's... I was trying to think of a metaphor to describe a croaking machine, ultimately decided that was a terrible way to do it so here's a video: https://youtu.be/aAz7H_UWkR4. Please excuse the current dual ethnicity with both black plastic and wood!
> 
> It just sounds a little different and the more I look at it, the pump pressure dial seems to be hovering around a little more. I don't believe this is due to the coffee - it's similar when backflushing although a little less pronounced.
> 
> I'm tempted to open it back up and take a peek inside - anyone had anything similar or knows more about machines than me and can point me to look at certain things? Or is this what I should expect with this mod?
> 
> Thanks.


 I change opv but sound not like yours, your sounds is strange


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

.


----------



## itguy

n863204 said:


> I GUESS SET IN HERE IS IT ~~
> 
> View attachment 52061


 Hi - yes that is right, sorry I forgot to do you a picture


----------



## nschnei1

nschnei1 said:


> Greetings all - I completed this mod yesterday and it's working great! It was easy enough to complete, and I'm excited to save the water
> 
> One thing catches my eye; I'm not sure it's an issue, but wanted to poll this audience for input: each time the machine runs and the OPV engages (either pulling a shot, or running a backflush), some air rises to the top of the intake hose in the tank. I use the resin filter in the tank, and I see the air in the hose that connects it to the machine.
> 
> Some more context: I've probably run 8-10 backflushes and pulled ~5 shots since completing the mod, and watching closely to see if it'll eventually pull all the air from the circuit that was left over in the hose from the original OPV routing to the drip tray. No luck. When the air bubble appears, I can run the pump without any resistance and the air is flushed out and does not reappear. But then, inevitably, the next time the pump runs and OPV engages, the air appears again. I have the case screwed closed again, so I haven't looked at any of the hoses inside the machine to watch when or where the air appears internally. All I know is it appears in the tank each time. It has not affected the operation of the machine, I guess the air is pushed through the pump during pre-infusion when I pull a shot, so sustaining pressure isn't an issue. One last note -- by pure coincidence, my machine suffered a (spontaneous?) water charge solenoid failure a couple of weeks ago. My local dealer replaced it under warranty. So, it's safe to assume that everything else internal is working as expected. Everything is working correctly, coffee tastes good, pressure is steady, etc. Just this little air bubble.
> 
> Any ideas? is this even an issue long-term? I could just keep an eye on this and see if eventually all the air is flushed out after a few more days of operation, if that wouldn't risk the pump or anything.





Merchant-Seaman said:


> Finally decided to crack on with this mod. It's been great in terms of doing what it's meant to so thanks to everyone who thought it through and shared it!
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a change in the sound of the machine since performing this mod? Mine used to sound "refined", like a consistent low rumble. Post-mod, it sounds a bit unwell, like it's... I was trying to think of a metaphor to describe a croaking machine, ultimately decided that was a terrible way to do it so here's a video: https://youtu.be/aAz7H_UWkR4. Please excuse the current dual ethnicity with both black plastic and wood!
> 
> It just sounds a little different and the more I look at it, the pump pressure dial seems to be hovering around a little more. I don't believe this is due to the coffee - it's similar when backflushing although a little less pronounced.
> 
> I'm tempted to open it back up and take a peek inside - anyone had anything similar or knows more about machines than me and can point me to look at certain things? Or is this what I should expect with this mod?
> 
> Thanks.


 I bet it's air in the line -- I posted back on 24 Dec to report that I was getting air bubbles out the OPV and into the pump, and this is exactly how mine looks and sounds.

It's very strange because the issue comes and goes, I cannot pin down a pattern. I ran my machine with the cover off for ~1 week and of course it behaved normally the entire time, so I put it together again, and a day or two later it started again 

Until very recently I'd been using my very hard tap water (living in Bavaria) with a Lelit resin filter changed regularly. After the OPV mod I decided the machine's using water efficiently enough to justify switching to a really soft bottled water, without a filter. For the first days after the switch, it ran pretty consistently *without* the suspected air issue. Just today, however, I refilled the tank, pulled a shot, and my machine ran exactly like the video.

My working theory: dissolved gas in the water that creates bubbles once it's pressurized 🤷‍♂️

The issue was happening to me semi-consistently when I was using hard water, and that's more prone to carrying the dissolved gasses that could create bubbles. Now today with bottled water, I noticed the issue the same day I refilled the tank. I glugged the water from a bottle into the tank and pulled a shot immediately, so if the water were to become "aerated" this would be the time...

...no clue if any of this is real, but the only explanation I can come up with. I'm tempted to open the machine again to watch it, and likely re-route the OPV into the tank instead to avoid the issue from popping up again. Even if the pump is safe from damage, it's still a nasty sound, and having the hose routed into the tank isn't very disruptive to my workflow.


----------



## Merchant-Seaman

nschnei1 said:


> I bet it's air in the line -- I posted back on 24 Dec to report that I was getting air bubbles out the OPV and into the pump, and this is exactly how mine looks and sounds.
> 
> It's very strange because the issue comes and goes, I cannot pin down a pattern. I ran my machine with the cover off for ~1 week and of course it behaved normally the entire time, so I put it together again, and a day or two later it started again
> 
> Until very recently I'd been using my very hard tap water (living in Bavaria) with a Lelit resin filter changed regularly. After the OPV mod I decided the machine's using water efficiently enough to justify switching to a really soft bottled water, without a filter. For the first days after the switch, it ran pretty consistently *without* the suspected air issue. Just today, however, I refilled the tank, pulled a shot, and my machine ran exactly like the video.
> 
> My working theory: dissolved gas in the water that creates bubbles once it's pressurized 🤷‍♂️
> 
> The issue was happening to me semi-consistently when I was using hard water, and that's more prone to carrying the dissolved gasses that could create bubbles. Now today with bottled water, I noticed the issue the same day I refilled the tank. I glugged the water from a bottle into the tank and pulled a shot immediately, so if the water were to become "aerated" this would be the time...
> 
> ...no clue if any of this is real, but the only explanation I can come up with. I'm tempted to open the machine again to watch it, and likely re-route the OPV into the tank instead to avoid the issue from popping up again. Even if the pump is safe from damage, it's still a nasty sound, and having the hose routed into the tank isn't very disruptive to my workflow.


 I couldn't quite bring myself to make a slot in the tank just yet so the tank cover doesn't fit on, but I have now re-redirected the OPV outlet to the top of the tank, a la Dave.

Noise completely gone. The OPV outlet tube was indeed mostly full of air.

Will make a slot later on. Thanks for the guidance all, glad to have Mara working quietly again!


----------



## CptSkydiver

Merchant-Seaman said:


> I couldn't quite bring myself to make a slot in the tank just yet so the tank cover doesn't fit on, but I have now re-redirected the OPV outlet to the top of the tank, a la Dave.
> 
> Noise completely gone. The OPV outlet tube was indeed mostly full of air.
> 
> Will make a slot later on. Thanks for the guidance all, glad to have Mara working quietly again!
> 
> View attachment 52102


 I will be doing the same this evening!


----------



## Dallah

Ok. Super stupid question coming. I've had my MaraX for a week now. Loving the coffee I'm getting out of the machine BUT while I'm pulling a shot there is a steady stream of clean water entering the drip tray. Is this the OPV discharge being discussed here? And this is "as designed?"

Thanks for the anticipated helpful and friendly replies.


----------



## Doram

Dallah said:


> Ok. Super stupid question coming. I've had my MaraX for a week now. Loving the coffee I'm getting out of the machine BUT while I'm pulling a shot there is a steady stream of clean water entering the drip tray. Is this the OPV discharge being discussed here? And this is "as designed?"


 Short answer: yes.

And stopping this water entering the drip tray is what this mod is about. The pump pushes more pressure than is needed to make coffee (maybe ~15 bar?). The OPV directs ~10.5 bars to the group. Everything above that is discharged. In many machines the discharged water goes back to the tank. In a stock Mara X it goes to the drip tray (wasting water and filling the drip dray). The mod simply reverses that and redirects the OPV discharge water to the pump inlet (or back to the tank, if you prefer a simpler mod. Some people prefer this option as they experienced a change in the noise from the machine if directed to the pump inlet).


----------



## Dag

Dallah said:


> Ok. Super stupid question coming. I've had my MaraX for a week now. Loving the coffee I'm getting out of the machine BUT while I'm pulling a shot there is a steady stream of clean water entering the drip tray. Is this the OPV discharge being discussed here? And this is "as designed?"


 I'm another fresh MaraX owner and i've also been surprised at the amount of water hitting the drip tray. From a single cycle of switch on, heat up, pull a double espresso, steam some milk, switch off, cool down, I measured 250ml in the drip tray. Only a small fraction of the water ends up in your cup. It wouldn't be a concern with tap water but using bottled water it adds up. I'm attempting the mod this week-end.


----------



## Doram

Dag said:


> From a single cycle of switch on, heat up, pull a double espresso, steam some milk, switch off, cool down, I measured 250ml in the drip tray.


 This is why this mod came to be. 🙂
It's a huge improvement to the machine if you use bottled water, imo. Good luck with it!


----------



## Dallah

Does anyone know if this mod would invalidate the warranty on the machine? Thinking specifically of the Bella Barista warranty.


----------



## DavecUK

Dallah said:


> Does anyone know if this mod would invalidate the warranty on the machine? Thinking specifically of the Bella Barista warranty.


 might do yeah......

If you do it my way though, it only needs a small notch in the tank and you can reverse it....so quite hard to deny warranty because of a notch in the plastic tank.....


----------



## Doram

Dallah said:


> Does anyone know if this mod would invalidate the warranty on the machine? Thinking specifically of the Bella Barista warranty.





DavecUK said:


> If you do it my way though, it only needs a small notch in the tank and you can reverse it....so quite hard to deny warranty because of a notch in the plastic tank.....


 ...and if you do it with the full mode running the OPV discharge to the pump inlet (which TBH is also @DavecUK's way, as he told us how to do it 🙂) - then it's 100% reversible and you can go back to stock without leaving any trace of the mode.


----------



## DavecUK

Doram said:


> ...and if you do it with the full mode running the OPV discharge to the pump inlet (which TBH is also @DavecUK way, as he told me how to do it 🙂) - then it's 100% reversible and you can go back to stock without leaving any trace of the mode.


 This is very true....the issue is if they know you have been inside, however you do it....


----------



## Doram

DavecUK said:


> This is very true....the issue is if they know you have been inside, however you do it....


 A cut in the tank will be harder to explain if you weren't in there... 😉

In any case, I hope an honest retailer will not try to get out of the warranty for a repair that had nothing to do with the owner opening the case. And a dishonest retailer - well, better not buy from them in the first place, right? 😉


----------



## DavecUK

Doram said:


> A cut in the tank will be harder to explain if you weren't in there... 😉
> 
> In any case, I hope an honest retailer will not try to get out of the warranty for a repair that had nothing to do with the owner opening the case. And a dishonest retailer - well, better not buy from them in the first place, right? 😉


 Agreed...I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be too many problems...as for the Notch in the tank...i'd just say yeah I dropped it when filling and it made that perfect groove. <lol>. In fairness though if someone say can doing xyz affect your warranty...we have to say, well yes, it could.


----------



## nschnei1

Merchant-Seaman said:


> I couldn't quite bring myself to make a slot in the tank just yet so the tank cover doesn't fit on, but I have now re-redirected the OPV outlet to the top of the tank, a la Dave.
> 
> Noise completely gone. The OPV outlet tube was indeed mostly full of air.
> 
> Will make a slot later on. Thanks for the guidance all, glad to have Mara working quietly again!
> 
> View attachment 52102


 Can I ask for a photo (or description) of how others have routed the OPV hose to the *tank*? I realize it'll require some notch cutting, I'm wondering how others did it to minimize the impact of this...

I like this photo from Merchant-Seaman that shows how to get the hose through the tank with minimal disruption. Is it just a matter of cutting the plastic tank in that same corner so the hose keeps a low enough profile that the metal lid can sit flat on top?

Thanks!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@nschnei1 I think I heard @DavecUK? (Maybe - might be wrong) mentioning another way of doing this is to remove the handle and slot the hose on that groove?


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @nschnei1 I think I heard @DavecUK? (Maybe - might be wrong) mentioning another way of doing this is to remove the handle and slot the hose on that groove?


 I did it as below and removed one of the lifting handles...it's a long ovoid for the handle, so you lift it until the shape matches, and it easily pops out.

I found the hose can route out of a small circular groove in the metalwork under the top plate on the left and then routes under the corner of the top plate with it being tightened down, but not enough to close up the tube. I found the best position for the groove was in the far corner as shown.

To make the groove I drilled a large hole a few mm from the top edge and then trimmed down the sides to open it out.










On important thing to do is snip 2 or 3cm off the tube to make a short piece you can bung up and place on the fitting where the original hose came from.


----------



## Merchant-Seaman

@MediumRoastSteam you need to remove the handle on that side to allow the tank cover to sit flush - there's not enough room to twist and feed the hose through there (I tried!)

I used scissors to just chop a chunk out of the tank and then used a little hand dremel thing to tidy it up.

@nschnei1 Hope the pics help!


----------



## DavecUK

@Merchant-Seaman Nice one!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@DavecUK - What did you attach to the tube to bung it (the beige/brown cap thing)? Picture is not very clear.


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @DavecUK - What did you attach to the tube to bung it (the beige/brown cap thing)? Picture is not very clear.


 Just something I found in the bits drawer. I think it was an old plastic cap for a posidrive screw head from some flatpack furniture I bought about 25 years ago. You can use anything really, an old piece of plastic, end of a pencil...just be creative.


----------



## Doram

DavecUK said:


> To make the groove I drilled a large hole a few mm from the top edge and then trimmed down the sides to open it out.


 Didn't you just drop it while filing and it broke that way? 😉



DavecUK said:


> MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> 
> 
> @DavecUK - What did you attach to the tube to bung it (the beige/brown cap thing)? Picture is not very clear.
> 
> 
> 
> Just something I found in the bits drawer. I think it was an old plastic cap for a posidrive screw head from some flatpack furniture I bought about 25 years ago. You can use anything really, an old piece of plastic, end of a pencil...just be creative.
Click to expand...

 Wouldn't it work if you just fold the tube onto itself and put a cable tie over it?


----------



## DavecUK

Doram said:


> Didn't you just drop it while filing and it broke that way? ????
> 
> Wouldn't it work if you just fold the tube onto itself and put a cable tie over it?


 That would be too bloody easy....damm you!










Although my tube wasn't very bendable as I didn't use the expansion valve tube but a cut of bit of poly tube....that's my very good excuse.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram - knowing my luck, if I just bend and tie, I'm sure the thing will explode and I'll find water all over the countertop. Hence why I only use silicone tubing and X or Y connectors with specially fitted caps which are military grade. 😂🙃


----------



## Guido

I can't wait to get started with this mod. Although I am a bit worried about the sound issue some users have posted about. As multiple have addressed the issue I am inclined to assume it would be inevitable to run into eventually. Running the tube back to the tank is not really an option for me as I use the resin filter.

How is the situation with others who have done the mod? Are you hearing the increased noise as well?


----------



## Guido

Avner said:


> Wow! Thank you for this great mod. I just finished doing mine and found out that it can be improved. My improvment eliminate any need for extra parts. Here how it goes:
> 
> Just above the X connector, the one we remove one pipe from, there is a Y connector leading into the top of the boiler. So instead of replacing the X connector with a Y (or T) connector I remove the Y connector and use the X connector for the remaining 4 lines. The existing Y connector is moved to connecting the pump input to both the tank and the line we brought in from the OPV.
> 
> This has the same effect with no need to wait for extra parts. Good luck.


 Looking at the diagram closely, this alternative method makes a lot of sense. Has anyone else tried this set up? Are there any reason to favour the original method instead of this alternative?


----------



## Doram

Guido said:


> Running the tube back to the tank is not really an option for me as I use the resin filter.


 You can route the OPV tube to the tank if you want. It has nothing to do with the in-tank filter and will not cause any issues with the filter.

You can also do the full mode and see if you find any change in the noise. Personally, I have done the full mod and didn't notice a change in the noise. (I'm not saying there isn't a change in noise, because I don't remember how the machine sounded before, but if there was a change - I didn't notice it so it doesn't bother me. Maybe I am not sensitive enough, lol).

If you have the connectors, you can try the full mod and if you have a noise change that bothers you, you can easily revert and route the OPV to the tank. Either way, if you try do share your experience as it might help others.


----------



## Guido

Doram said:


> You can route the OPV tube to the tank if you want. It has nothing to do with the in-tank filter and will not cause any issues with the filter.


 I haven't wrapped my head around if running the descaled water through the resin filter multiple times would comprise the 30 L capacity of the unit. If that is the case and assuming a spared water ratio of 2:1 then the resin filter would only descale 10L instead of 30L. Now I am unsure if running already descaled water through the filter adds to the total, maybe not.

I downloaded a db meter app on my phone and have done a measurement while making a shot, below is a screenshot of it. So this is still in stock set-up and I had laid down the phone just in front of the machine. The noise was 66db while brewing and fairly constant. I might do the test again after the mod.


----------



## Doram

Guido said:


> I haven't wrapped my head around if running the descaled water through the resin filter multiple times would comprise the 30 L capacity of the unit. If that is the case and assuming a spared water ratio of 2:1 then the resin filter would only descale 10L instead of 30L. Now I am unsure if running already descaled water through the filter adds to the total, maybe not.


 Interesting question. I don't know the answer, so this is just a guess: if you filter the water, the filter will take some of the minerals out. If you then re-route this water back to the tank, the filter might take out some more minerals out (shortening the life of the filter but making the water purer), or maybe it has already taken out what it can, therefore not taking out more (and not reducing the life of the filter). Either way, the water returned from the OPV would be mixed with the rest of the water in the tank, not filtered on it's own, so I can't imagine this would have a significant impact. I think in the long run the in-tank filter might not be the most effective (or cheap) solution for soft water anyway. Personally I am using bottled water for now. It is far from ideal, but it's easy until I find something better.



Guido said:


> I downloaded a db meter app on my phone and have done a measurement while making a shot, below is a screenshot of it. So this is still in stock set-up and I had laid down the phone just in front of the machine. The noise was 66db while brewing and fairly constant. I might do the test again after the mod.


 This is very cool! I am looking forward to learn the results of this experiment. 🔊


----------



## nschnei1

DavecUK said:


> It's the highest point in the system, I suppose if any air gets in it's goring to sit there... Interestingly Vibe pumps can have de-aerators (much less common now), but they are always after the pump, not before. So a bit of air in the inlet pipe now and again won't do any harm at all.
> 
> Vibe pumps van be damaged by running dry, but only for extended periods. A short period where the pump has an air bubble but is still wet inside, the piston running in the nylon sleeve is still well lubricated, even if it's sucking a bit of air and water, it won't damage it...they are not the same as rotary pumps.
> 
> If the pressure is OK and steady and the shots are good...don't worry about it.





Guido said:


> Looking at the diagram closely, this alternative method makes a lot of sense. Has anyone else tried this set up? Are there any reason to favour the original method instead of this alternative?


 For what it's worth -- the "full" mod is brilliant and if you don't mind the experimentation I'd recommend you try it first. Seems like a minority of us are getting air back to the pump, so it's worth the gamble. The big advantage to the "full" mod, to me, is you don't need to cut the plastic tank to make the hose routing fit. All your call, though.

(the air still doesn't really make sense to me...must have to do with the water we're using includes some dissolved gas that turns to bubbles under pressure? No other source of air in the circuit AFAIK)

For now, I'm still running my machine with the "full" mod even though I'm getting air from the OPV back to the pump. Sure, it causes some noise, but as @DavecUK explained it's not risking the pump so I'm OK with it. I'm just being lazy and plan to switch to drain the OPV directly into the tank.......but that means working on the machine while it's cold, which means I wouldn't have a coffee first, which means I'm procrastinating 😝


----------



## Jasper Velders

Finally done the full mod today as well, bit fidgety with my fat sausage fingers but got it all done. Bit more noise from the machine but working perfectly!


----------



## Glen

This is all very interesting. So I have a Mara X built in Sep 2020 and I don't get more than a few drops into my drip tray when making coffees. They must have changed the pressure settings of the pump or something?

I grind fine enough to get my 40+ second espresso (40ml from 20g, timer starts when I lift the lever, not at first drop) and pump pressure rises all the way to 10.


----------



## Guido

Glen said:


> This is all very interesting. So I have a Mara X built in Sep 2020 and I don't get more than a few drops into my drip tray when making coffees. They must have changed the pressure settings of the pump or something?


 Where can I find the manufacturing date? My machine is brand new as well, I only got a little over a month ago.

Looking at traditional heat exchange routing images on the web, you can clearly see that usually the OVP tube is routed back into system somewhere. But that's not the case for the Mara X units in this thread. I would be interested to know if they changed the routing on your machine maybe.

I am still waiting on T-parts to be sent in, and then I will have to find the time to look on under the hood for which way i am going. As of now, I am leaning towards running the ovp tube back into the reservoir tank. I am still worried about the longevity of the resin filter, but I have bought tritan fluid to test the water hardness instead of relying on the volume counter method. Turns out my tap water is about 8dh, and the output of the MaraX is 2dh. Still, I want to measure the unboiled water straight out of the filter to see if there is any difference. Just to be sure no scale is left in the machine.


----------



## stockportman

@Glen you findings are indeed very intereting. I'm playing it safe, and am not planning to mod mine until it's out of warranty (even though it's darn tempting)

I'd love to hear if Lelit have done it themselves - as it might make them more accepting of a user performing the same mod


----------



## Jasper Velders

Interesting indeed. Haven't checked the date on mine, but I bought my machine in November 2020. Definitely lots of water saved by doing the mod.

I did think about not doing it as well, first time I closed the machine back up. Going through multiple bottles of water a week I did decide to finally do it last weekend.


----------



## Doram

Glen said:


> This is all very interesting. So I have a Mara X built in Sep 2020 and I don't get more than a few drops into my drip tray when making coffees. They must have changed the pressure settings of the pump or something?
> 
> I grind fine enough to get my 40+ second espresso (40ml from 20g, timer starts when I lift the lever, not at first drop) and pump pressure rises all the way to 10.


 Sounds very strange indeed. You can check this by running the pump against the blind basket and watching the drip tray carefully (it will be easier to see if you start with an empty tray and the grid off). If indeed you are not getting water to the tray, can you maybe post a video to show this?

Ultimately, you can take the case off and follow the tube from the OPV to see where it goes. I wouldn't put my money on Lelit changing this in September with no one else reporting it till the end of February the next year, but I am willing to eat my hat if they did.


----------



## ajohn

I wondered about making a similar mod to one of Sage's small basket machines so that the OPV could be set to more usual levels. Bit of a problem as I see it. It would be easy to route opv water to the input of the pump but assuming that ulka pumps are not rocket level engineering I'd expect them to get hot. Dumping back to the tank is somewhat different.


----------



## Glen

Doram said:


> Sounds very strange indeed. You can check this by running the pump against the blind basket and watching the drip tray carefully (it will be easier to see if you start with an empty tray and the grid off). If indeed you are not getting water to the tray, can you maybe post a video to show this?
> 
> Ultimately, you can take the case off and follow the tube from the OPV to see where it goes. I wouldn't put my money on Lelit changing this in September with no one else reporting it till the end of February the next year, but I am willing to eat my hat if they did.


 Here's the video:


----------



## Doram

Glen said:


> Here's the video:


 Wow, thanks for uploading the video! Your machine is clearly not venting the OPV to the tray. Where did you buy it from? (you bought it from new, right?). It would be super interesting to see what it looks like under the hood, if you are willing to take the case off. Seems like I might need to get a hat. 🙂

@DavecUK - do you know anything about this?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram @Glen - I'd be curious to know if they changed anything too. Very interesting indeed!


----------



## Glen

Doram said:


> Wow, thanks for uploading the video! Your machine is clearly not venting the OPV to the tray. Where did you buy it from? (you bought it from new, right?). It would be super interesting to see what it looks like under the hood, if you are willing to take the case off. Seems like I might need to get a hat. 🙂
> 
> @DavecUK - do you know anything about this?


 I might very well be taking the case off soon to replace the faulty 9600092 probe causing over-pressurisation issues. Just waiting for the service department to get back to me about sending me the probe. 
purchased it new from Jetblack Espresso here in Australia. 
I might have to open it up for a look just for fun even before I get the probe sent up!

I should add, I do get a little spurt of water come into the drip tray when the pump fills the boiler, just when it has finished topping off the boiler and the pump cuts out, maybe 10ml drops into the tray.


----------



## Doram

Glen said:


> purchased it new from Jetblack Espresso here in Australia.
> I might have to open it up for a look just for fun even before I get the probe sent up!
> 
> I should add, I do get a little spurt of water come into the drip tray when the pump fills the boiler, just when it has finished topping off the boiler and the pump cuts out, maybe 10ml drops into the tray.


 The little spurt of water into the drip tray isn't from the OPV. If you look at the bottom-left picture in the first post on this thread, you will see that on the stock Mara X as we know it there is a 4-way junction (the X connector) with one tube leading to the drip tray, and 3 tubes that potentially feed it with water. The OPV discharge is the one tube that feeds the tray with a lot of water, so when this is re-routed - you still have water venting to the drip tray from the other two tubes, but it's very little and insignificant in quantity.

The discharge to the drip tray on your machine, as seen in your video, looks exactly as it would after the mod has been done. It would be super interesting to see how this was achieved inside (the same as the mod or another way). It would also be interesting to know who did it: Could it be that your retailer modded your machine (did they open and check it as Bela Barista does in the UK? Could be worth asking them)? Or did Lelit change the design (maybe they follow this thread too, I wouldn't be surprised if they do)? And if they did change it, are they doing it just for Australia (as a test maybe?), or for certain batches, or for all machines)? Very interesting indeed.


----------



## dreadnatty08

First post after lurking for a bit! 😀

My MaraX is arriving hopefully this week so hopefully I can give some insight into whether there have been any changes with newer models (presumably this is new as it arrived to NYC from Italy last week). I'm still on the fence whether I'll go ahead with the mod if need be since I picked up a bag of X connectors.


----------



## Doram

dreadnatty08 said:


> My MaraX is arriving hopefully this week so hopefully I can give some insight into whether there have been any changes with newer models (presumably this is new as it arrived to NYC from Italy last week). I'm still on the fence whether I'll go ahead with the mod if need be since I picked up a bag of X connectors.


 Welcome to the forum, enjoy your new machine, and please do let us know if it dumps the OPV discharge to the tray (especially if it doesn't ).


----------



## DavecUK

Glen said:


> This is all very interesting. So I have a Mara X built in Sep 2020 and I don't get more than a few drops into my drip tray when making coffees. They must have changed the pressure settings of the pump or something?
> 
> I grind fine enough to get my 40+ second espresso (40ml from 20g, timer starts when I lift the lever, not at first drop) and pump pressure rises all the way to 10.


 Can you remove the tank cover and put up a photo of that area?


----------



## Glen

DavecUK said:


> Can you remove the tank cover and put up a photo of that area?


 You've been such a good sport making lots of videos for us Dave, so I thought I'll go one better than a photo and show the whole plumbing in a video. Turns out my Mara X came to me brand new already modded.


----------



## DavecUK

@Glen I sure your retailer did it...

The copper coils are the capilliary tube to the pressure gauge....

I had to do my mod differently because I test stuff on the machine...and I can't take it too far from stock in certain ways.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post the video, I'm sure other members will also appreciate it.


----------



## Zensa06

> 1 hour ago, Glen said:
> 
> You've been such a good sport making lots of videos for us Dave, so I thought I'll go one better than a photo and show the whole plumbing in a video. Turns out my Mara X came to me brand new already modded.


 Is this the "alternate" method mentioned by Avner?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Zensa06 said:


> Is this the "alternate" method mentioned by Avner?


 Who? 
edit: just referred back to this thread. Found out Avner is a forum member. 👍


----------



## Guido

> 7 hours ago, Glen said:
> 
> You've been such a good sport making lots of videos for us Dave, so I thought I'll go one better than a photo and show the whole plumbing in a video. Turns out my Mara X came to me brand new already modded.


 It looks like it, as was proposed, it seems they switched around the X and T connector. Without having done the mode yet, it seems like the most elegant solution to me.


----------



## Doram

Glen said:


> Turns out my Mara X came to me brand new already modded.


 Thanks! Maybe you can ask your retailer to confirm if it's them who did it, so we can close the case? It's a very cool service if they did, although also a bit problematic if they just do it without asking for permission, don't you think?



Zensa06 said:


> Is this the "alternate" method mentioned by Avner?


 Seems very likely, because the X connector is still there and the OPV-tank-pump junction is connected with the blue plastic Y connector.
You can also see that the top tube from the X connector is now secured with a cable tie (as is the tube from the OPV). This is something that was added, probably by the person who modded the machine.


----------



## Glen

Guido said:


> Thank you very much for the clear video! That's quite a finding. A thing I am keen on knowing is the potential of added noise of the full mod. Do you experience any strange amount of noise?


 As I've never had the MaraX before the mod was done, I don't know if it changed the sound of the pump. If only I had a friend living close by who also had a MaraX that I could visit to compare.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Glen @Doram - thanks for all of this. Indeed it would be a great idea to put a close to all of this. It doesn't look like something out of the factory because of the cable ties. It's great though, if this is done by the retailer. Means they endorse it and the customers needn't worry about sorting out themselves.


----------



## Doram

As we have some confusion about variations for this mod, I created illustrations that hopefully will make it clearer.

Basically, we have 3 alternatives as shown below. I included animations within the descriptions, and still versions at the bottom.
[The illustrations are showing: 1) Original stock configuration; 2) Simplest mod - OPV to tank; 3) Full mod with two added 3-way connectors; and 4) Full mode with existing connectors].

*1. Simplest option: OPV goes back to tank*

The Tube from the OPV goes to the tank. The remaining entry on the X connector needs to be blocked (or replaced with a 3-way connector). some prefer this option because they report a change in the noise from the machine with the full mod. Others haven't noticed a change in noise or are not bothered by it and prefer the full mod:









*2. Full (Original) mod: requires two added 3-way connectors*

The 4-way connector is replace with a new 3-way connector, and a second new 3-way connector is used to connect the OPV tube to the pump inlet:









*3. Full mode using only existing connectors (no extra parts needed)*

This version is similar to the original full mode, only instead of replacing the 4-way connector, it cleverly moves an existing 3-way connector to create the exact same result without any extra parts:









*In case those animations are not easy enough to follow, here are the non-moving versions:*


----------



## Zensa06

Doram said:


> As we have some confusion about variations for this mod, I created illustrations that hopefully will make it clearer.
> 
> Basically, we have 3 alternatives as shown below. I included animations within the descriptions, and still versions at the bottom.
> [The illustrations are showing: 1) Original stock configuration; 2) Simplest mod - OPV to tank; 3) Full mod with two added 3-way connectors; and 4) Full mode with existing connectors].
> 
> *1. Simplest option: OPV goes back to tank*
> 
> The Tube from the OPV goes to the tank. The remaining entry on the X connector needs to be blocked (or replaced with a 3-way connector). some prefer this option because they report a change in the noise from the machine with the full mod. Others haven't noticed a change in noise or are not bothered by it and prefer the full mod:
> 
> 
> View attachment 53557
> 
> 
> *2. Full (Original) mod: requires two added 3-way connectors*
> 
> The 4-way connector is replace with a new 3-way connector, and a second new 3-way connector is used to connect the OPV tube to the pump inlet:
> 
> 
> View attachment 53558
> 
> 
> *3. Full mode using only existing connectors (no extra parts needed)*
> 
> This version is similar to the original full mode, only instead of replacing the 4-way connector, it cleverly moves an existing 3-way connector to create the exact same result without any extra parts:
> 
> 
> View attachment 53559
> 
> 
> *In case those animations are not easy enough to follow, here are the non-moving versions:*
> 
> 
> View attachment 53563
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53561
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53560
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53562


 Great illustrations.

I did the mod yesterday, but I seem to be having trouble uploading the images here.

Original layout



http://imgur.com/nn8FJhL


Modded



http://imgur.com/hYTD1ip


----------



## Glen

Doram said:


> Thanks! Maybe you can ask your retailer to confirm if it's them who did it, so we can close the case?


 So I asked my retailer's service centre if they did the mod, because I'm also in contact with them about my faulty 9600092 probe. 
he responded "this is a mod carried out to all Australian delivered machines."

So I guess that means they did it, and that all Aussie retailers are instructed to do the mod? I'm still not 100% sure if they do it in Italy before it's shipped to Australia or done here when they open it up to inspect it.


----------



## Doram

Glen said:


> So I asked my retailer's service centre if they did the mod, because I'm also in contact with them about my faulty 9600092 probe.
> he responded "this is a mod carried out to all Australian delivered machines."


 Thanks for asking your retailer and reporting this, it is very interesting indeed.

I assume this would reassure some people considering the mod that it is a safe and reasonable improvement to the Mara X.


----------



## Guido

I'm doing the mod as we have speak. The routing seems fine I think.

I did notice that when the pumps actives it will suck water from the opv tube, as intended. It can cause air to fill the opv tube, all to way back to the opv. Is there no harm in that? What happens when air gets in the opv sensor?


----------



## dreadnatty08

Just an update. My MaraX arrived! Very excited to use it for a couple days. I'm going to assume the mod was not done on my machine (production date is likely July '20 as that's when the electrical test report was done on it...). I think this coming weekend or sometime soon after I'll check out the mod. I think I'm most likely to route the OPV tube back into the tank; seems most comfortable for me.


----------



## Badgerman

Not been on here for a while, this is ace. I got the Osmio due to water use so this will help with the refills. Need to read all the posts as looks like things have changed from the OP. Thanks!


----------



## Doram

Guido said:


> It can cause air to fill the opv tube, all to way back to the opv.


 First of all, your mod looks great, well done!

I can also see air in the tube on mine, but this has not caused any issue for me.

I am guessing those air bubbles may be the cause of what some people described as a change in the noise. As you have already done the full mod, just try it and see if you have any issues with noise or otherwise (don't forget to report back). If you don't like anything, you can easily divert the OPV to the tank or revert back to stock (but I doubt you will want to once you've experienced the modded machine ).


----------



## Guido

Doram said:


> First of all, your mod looks great, well done!
> 
> I can also see air in the tube on mine, but this has not caused any issue for me.
> 
> I am guessing those air bubbles may be the cause of what some people described as a change in the noise. As you have already done the full mod, just try it and see if you have any issues with noise or otherwise (don't forget to report back). If you don't like anything, you can easily divert the OPV to the tank or revert back to stock (but I doubt you will want to once you've experienced the modded machine ).


 Thank you! I will give you all a short update. Meanwhile, I have made around 4 cups of coffee and I think everything is working as intended.

The first shot I had made with the hood off as shown in the photo before. I did this to check if there would be any leakage in any of the new connections i had made. I didn't discover any. Simultaneously I recorded a movie of the pressure gauge, it seemed to show some fluctuation just below 10 bar in the beginning, however, this could be due to my bad puck prep. Doing the mod itself was straightforward, the most time was spent on getting the casing back on. I do have to say that you need a good amount of force getting the tubes onto the blue Y connector.

The next morning I made a recording of the noise. In the beginning when the pump first activates, the machine seems to rattle a bit more than I remembered from before, I might check later if I need to fix any of the tubing. The recording shows a little higher db level but nothing outrages, and no burps or any of that kind. Just a nice constant buzz around 66 dB. Pressure was a rock solid 10 bar this time.

I am pleased with the outcome. In about a week or so, I am going to open it up again to see everything is still in order. Thanks for all the help guys!


----------



## Doram

Guido said:


> The next morning I made a recording of the noise. In the beginning when the pump first activates, the machine seems to rattle a bit more than I remembered from before, I might check later if I need to fix any of the tubing. The recording shows a little higher db level but nothing outrages, and no burps or any of that kind. Just a nice constant buzz around 66 dB. Pressure was a rock solid 10 bar this time.


 Thanks for checking the noise level, this is brilliant! Just a small clarification: In your message you say the noise level after the mod was 66dB (but the screenshot shows 61.4dB, with min/max/average levels under the big number).
When you measured before the mod you also said 66dB in the message itself, but the screenshot shows 43.8dB as the main number, but then the average noise levels are similar: 64.2dB without the mod, and 65.8 with the mod. Can you maybe clarify which numbers are relevant for the comparison?


----------



## Badgerman

Just done option 1) for a night then did option 2) as wanted tidy cables for £5.50 for the Ys. Very easy to do both. A few minute job and so far on a blank plate no noise changes.

it's lovely to see how well this thing is out together when you take it apart.

thanks to all who contributed to this mod. Wish I knew a year ago when I got it and then got an Osmio due to how thirsty it was.


----------



## dreadnatty08

Completed Mod #2 using 2ea Y connectors. Process went pretty well though the connectors I had had some sharp edges and I ended up having to cut some extra tubing off the pump intake end to make it work. Ended up doing several backflushes before putting it back together and no issues arose. Pulling a couple shots I do notice a kind of raspiness as the pump kicks in through pre-infusion. Once I get a good stream on the shot, it seems to go away. I do have the Lelit flow control installed, whether that makes any difference?

So far, I'm happy to see a lot less water in the drip tray! I'll likely take the back off in a few days to inspect for any leaks. I did notice the tube coming from the solenoid (I think?) to be slightly larger in diameter and would probably benefit from a clamp.


----------



## Zensa06

I did the mod without any extra connectors and I've noticed 2 things:



I do notice a more distinct rasp sometimes, mostly during startup


Since I'm working from home right now, I have the machine on from 6:30am-2:30pm. This past weekend, while the machine was idle I think I noticed the temperature light flashing more often (getting the machine up to my set brewing temperature).


Has anyone else noticed their machine trying to get up to brewing temperature more often? I can't think of any reason why the temperature would be fluctuating more often


----------



## Guido

Doram said:


> Thanks for checking the noise level, this is brilliant! Just a small clarification: In your message you say the noise level after the mod was 66dB (but the screenshot shows 61.4dB, with min/max/average levels under the big number).
> When you measured before the mod you also said 66dB in the message itself, but the screenshot shows 43.8dB as the main number, but then the average noise levels are similar: 64.2dB without the mod, and 65.8 with the mod. Can you maybe clarify which numbers are relevant for the comparison?


 Hi Doram. Yes, so I didn't check my previous measurement, I only felt the noise was a little louder. Evidently, the noise level is about the same as both hovered around 66 dB. The big number in the screenshot shows the last measured level, and that was after the pump was off. The graph shows the noise development throughout the shot. Now after a week, I don't think there is any real increase in noise level from the mod. Maybe I also recognize the rasp in the beginning, but it levels out quite fast. More importantly, the pressure maintains a steady 10 bar.

My brass T connectors just came in, but I am quite content with the plastic connector as well. The tubes are firmly secured on it.



Zensa06 said:


> I did the mod without any extra connectors and I've noticed 2 things:
> 
> 
> 
> I do notice a more distinct rasp sometimes, mostly during startup
> 
> 
> Since I'm working from home right now, I have the machine on from 6:30am-2:30pm. This past weekend, while the machine was idle I think I noticed the temperature light flashing more often (getting the machine up to my set brewing temperature).
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed their machine trying to get up to brewing temperature more often? I can't think of any reason why the temperature would be fluctuating more often


 I haven't noticed a more regular fall in temperature. I do have the power save mode enabled because i only make two shots a day ordinarily. So maybe it's not really comparable.


----------



## dreadnatty08

Zensa06 said:


> I did the mod without any extra connectors and I've noticed 2 things:
> 
> 
> 
> I do notice a more distinct rasp sometimes, mostly during startup
> 
> 
> Since I'm working from home right now, I have the machine on from 6:30am-2:30pm. This past weekend, while the machine was idle I think I noticed the temperature light flashing more often (getting the machine up to my set brewing temperature).
> 
> 
> Has anyone else noticed their machine trying to get up to brewing temperature more often? I can't think of any reason why the temperature would be fluctuating more often


 I definitely get the rasp, but I'm now pretty used to it and it's not as annoying (nor has it gotten "worse").

Regards to the temp light coming on, do you have standby mode enabled? That's the only reason I would see that happening.


----------



## Doram

Guido said:


> Now after a week, I don't think there is any real increase in noise level from the mod. Maybe I also recognize the rasp in the beginning, but it levels out quite fast. More importantly, the pressure maintains a steady 10 bar.





dreadnatty08 said:


> I'm now pretty used to it and it's not as annoying (nor has it gotten "worse").


 This is the same as my observation. I didn't notice a change in noise, so if there was a change, it wasn't significant for me to notice or care. My machine sounds normal to me. 🙂



Zensa06 said:


> Has anyone else noticed their machine trying to get up to brewing temperature more often? I can't think of any reason why the temperature would be fluctuating more often





dreadnatty08 said:


> Regards to the temp light coming on, do you have standby mode enabled? That's the only reason I would see that happening.


 I don't think this can have anything to do with the mod, and as you both said - there isn't any reason for the mod to have such an effect. All the mod does is redirect the OPV discharge water to the pump, and this only happens while you are in the middle of a shot.

Personally I didn't have any change in the heating behavior and haven't seen anyone else report that.


----------



## Zensa06

Just a quick update:

My machine is back to normal and is operating fine. I believe the temperature fluctuation was due to my backflushing (with detergent). I think I was getting impatient and sped up the cleaning process (performed backflushes too quickly in sequence).

Anyways, in order not to scare people away from this mod. I DO NOT believe the mod caused the temperature fluctuation that I was experiencing and instead it was user error.


----------



## jonasy

Thanks for the very helpful guide and everyone that has commented on this thread.

It took me a few days to collect myself after opening the machine, but only around 30 mins for me and my partner to do the rerouting. All tubes slid on fairly easily on the new connectors, didn't even have to heat them up. Machine is heating up now for a test run.


----------



## jonasy

No issues after a back flush and two shots. It actually sounds better, not sure if there were some air in the system or if it's just because of no rattling as I haven't put the lids back ...

And more importantly very little water in the drip tray


----------



## Guido

My boiler pressure gets ridiculously high during the warm up fase. Today it nearly got as high as 4,5 bar and the machine started to make a whistling sound.

Do you think it can have anything to do with the mod?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Guido said:


> Do you think it can have anything to do with the mod?


 I don't think so. If you think about the mechanics, service boiler temperature/pressure has nothing to do with the output of the expansion valve.

Note the above is a double post from:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48398-mara-x/?do=embed&comment=832938&embedComment=832938&embedDo=findComment


----------



## DavecUK

Guido said:


> My boiler pressure gets ridiculously high during the warm up fase. Today it nearly got as high as 4,5 bar and the machine started to make a whistling sound.
> 
> Do you think it can have anything to do with the mod?
> 
> View attachment 55656


 That's not right, contact your retailer.


----------



## Guido

DavecUK said:


> That's not right, contact your retailer.


 I've contacted my reseller. It's probably a faulty temperature probe.


----------



## Luke Marley

Just reading about the Mara, and came across this thread. Ive had mine just over a week and im pretty sure either lelit are doing this mod them selves now. Or BB are doing it. Because my OPV never vents during pulling a shot or during back flush. I get some sort of venting when the machines on and not being used every so often! But id assume thats not from the OPV. Im brewing at 10 bar 16 in 32 out in 36 s. I kinda wana open it up just to see whats going on.

Does anyone reccomend reducing my OPV pressure from 10 to 9 bar?

TIA.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Luke Marley - great machine. Leave the OPV alone. 10 bar is absolutely fine and correct.

no harm in taking the top off and seeing what's going on there. Also a good idea to do a quick check overall to make sure everything is working as it should. Would be great to know. Enjoy!


----------



## Dallah

@Luke MarleyI dropped the pressure on my OPV so that my brew pressure is now 9 bar in line with Italian tradition. So far I can't say that I can taste a difference.


----------



## dreadnatty08

Dallah said:


> @Luke MarleyI dropped the pressure on my OPV so that my brew pressure is now 9 bar in line with Italian tradition. So far I can't say that I can taste a difference.


 It's my understanding that the 10 bar at the pump translates to 9 bar at the group. I could be wrong, but I hear it over and over again on WLL videos.


----------



## Dallah

dreadnatty08 said:


> It's my understanding that the 10 bar at the pump translates to 9 bar at the group. I could be wrong, but I hear it over and over again on WLL videos.


 @dreadnatty08 I think @DavecUK would disagree with that and if it's down to believing WLL or Dave, I would opt for Dave.


----------



## ajohn

There is another Italian maker who sets 11bar. They claim the reason for this is flow rates compared with a rotary pump.

There could just about be some reasoning behind this.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

ajohn said:


> There is another Italian maker who sets 11bar.


 That's Bezzera I believe.


----------



## DavecUK

Dallah said:


> @dreadnatty08 I think @DavecUK would disagree with that and if it's down to believing WLL or Dave, I would opt for Dave.


 I do, if the expansion valve is set to open at 10 bar, or whatever, that's the pressure it opens at..It's just the laws of physics. Having coffee instead of a blind filter in the basket doesn't change that. What will be happening is the coffee is ground coarse enough that flow rate through the coffee is high enough that the vibration pump cannot deliver water fast enough for the pressure to reach 10 bar.

It basically shows the grind was too coarse....even if it did reach 9 bar (on an expansion valve set to 10 bar), that's still not necessarily OK if the shot was gushing through.


----------



## Doram

Luke Marley said:


> Just reading about the Mara, and came across this thread. Ive had mine just over a week and im pretty sure either lelit are doing this mod them selves now. Or BB are doing it. Because my OPV never vents during pulling a shot or during back flush. I get some sort of venting when the machines on and not being used every so often! But id assume thats not from the OPV. Im brewing at 10 bar 16 in 32 out in 36 s. I kinda wana open it up just to see whats going on.
> 
> Does anyone reccomend reducing my OPV pressure from 10 to 9 bar?


 Very interesting. Would love to know what you have inside re OPV discharge, and who has done it.
If anyone else has a new Mara X received with the mod already done - please report what you have and where you got it.

Re lowering the pressure from 10.5 to 9 - I have done mine, and I don't regret it. Not sure if it improved the coffee, but I certainly didn't notice any negative effect and I think it may have reduced the chances of channelling.


----------



## DavecUK

I know Lelit were rerouting the output back to the tank, they sent a a photo of the modification some months ago. Sounds like it's in production now.


----------



## Doram

DavecUK said:


> I know Lelit were rerouting the output back to the tank, they sent a a photo of the modification some months ago. Sounds like it's in production now.


 How are they doing this? Do they spoil their neat bottom-fed tank with a tube from the top? Do they cut a groove in the tank for the tube, or did they come up with a nicer solution?

@Luke Marley or other owners of new Mara X's - can you see a tube feeding back to the tank? (and if so, can you share a photo?)


----------



## Luke Marley

I actually opened it up, i was just wrong in what i said. As when i put the blind basket in, the opv fed water back to the drip tray. . I never saw it doing it while pulling a shot though ( i checked ). I have since carried out the updated mod on this. Ive only had it for 2 weeks and i ran a kg of raves espresso blend and had very consistant, delicious shots of espresso 16 in 32 out in 36 seconds. Now im using a medium roast by redber, columbia finca sofia. Im trying 18 in 36 out in about the same time and i cant for the life of me get a good shot from it. My grinds gone about half a number finer on the specialita and my shots start off nice starting at about 12 seconds however after 20 seconds the espresso stream gets alot thinner and starts to kind of trickle back on the porta filter spouts ( it also looks watery ) not thick like my espresso blend. Ive used the 14 - 18 gram basket and the 18 - 21 gram stock baskets, i dose into a cup, shake a bit then dose its porta filter, fluff up the grinds with a paper clip so there nice and fluffy and not clumpy, tap on the work top, then i use lelits 58.5 mm distribution tool and tamp nice and even. No idea how much pressure im using but a fair bit. Not loads but i feel enough ( so i feel the grinds nice and compact ) i still get a shot in 32s for 18 in 36 out but its not drinkable ( id say more bitter, no real falvour ) and nothing like my dark roast espresso blend from rave. Its a shame beacause i really like this bean. This tells me over extraction but im confused because tbh id like to run it for a tad longer. Also the pucks after look immaculate. No holes or anything to suggest channeling.

Any help would be appreciated.

Maybe i should just stick with dark roast until i get more of a feel for using the Marax and the Specialita.

Cheers

P.s @ dorum maybe il drop it to 9 bar see if that makes any difference.


----------



## prezes

Thanks so much for this guide. Easy to follow and a must in my opinion! Used cable ties on Y connector just to be on safe side. Machine is definitely a bit more noisy with with mod done but less water in drip tray !


----------



## pandabear

Doram said:


> How are they doing this? Do they spoil their neat bottom-fed tank with a tube from the top? Do they cut a groove in the tank for the tube, or did they come up with a nicer solution?
> 
> @Luke Marley or other owners of new Mara X's - can you see a tube feeding back to the tank? (and if so, can you share a photo?)


 @Doram @DavecUK I got a MaraX a couple of weeks back and mine was still at stock configuration in terms of the water piping. I opened it up this morning and did the mod that requires no extra connectors or pipes, seems to be working just fine.

I believe the rasp is present mainly when the water tank is actively feeding the pump as the pump is trying to suck from the OPV pipe at the same time, as a consequence of the mod, where there is no active water feed present in that pipe (it only drips there during a shot of course). This would also explain why it happens on start up more frequently than at other times. I could be wrong but just my observations!


----------



## Dave135

Hi all. New to this forum and a proud owner of a Mara X. I opened up the machine up today to check it out before doing the mod and noticed that the steel plate that separates the water tank from the main compartment has a small partially cut area at the top that aligns with the existing notch at the front of the water tank itself. It's almost as if it has been designed to be 'popped' out to make a hole that the tube from the OPV could pass through and directly into the tank. I'd post an image but don't seem to be able to do that. Anyone else noticed this on their model?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Dave135 said:


> Hi all. New to this forum and a proud owner of a Mara X. I opened up the machine up today to check it out before doing the mod and noticed that the steel plate that separates the water tank from the main compartment has a small partially cut area at the top that aligns with the existing notch at the front of the water tank itself. It's almost as if it has been designed to be 'popped' out to make a hole that the tube from the OPV could pass through and directly into the tank. I'd post an image but don't seem to be able to do that. Anyone else noticed this on their model?


 I think you need a few posts in order to post images. Would be interesting to see your image.


----------



## DavecUK

@Dave135 I think they may be making preparations .....


----------



## Dave135

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I think you need a few posts in order to post images. Would be interesting to see your image.


 Thanks. I guess I better get posting then


----------



## pandabear

Guido said:


> Thank you! I will give you all a short update. Meanwhile, I have made around 4 cups of coffee and I think everything is working as intended.
> 
> The first shot I had made with the hood off as shown in the photo before. I did this to check if there would be any leakage in any of the new connections i had made. I didn't discover any. Simultaneously I recorded a movie of the pressure gauge, it seemed to show some fluctuation just below 10 bar in the beginning, however, this could be due to my bad puck prep. Doing the mod itself was straightforward, the most time was spent on getting the casing back on. I do have to say that you need a good amount of force getting the tubes onto the blue Y connector.
> 
> The next morning I made a recording of the noise. In the beginning when the pump first activates, the machine seems to rattle a bit more than I remembered from before, I might check later if I need to fix any of the tubing. The recording shows a little higher db level but nothing outrages, and no burps or any of that kind. Just a nice constant buzz around 66 dB. Pressure was a rock solid 10 bar this time.
> 
> I am pleased with the outcome. In about a week or so, I am going to open it up again to see everything is still in order. Thanks for all the help guys!
> 
> View attachment 53757


 @Guido FYI I did the same mod as you and downloaded what I assume is the same app. Phone is in a case and was laid down right in front of the machine - below is the db reading from shot start to finish. I'm assuming that my ambient noise is just quieter than you as otherwise the meter almost reads the same, albeit quite a bit quieter! I didn't do a recording before the mod but I really don't think there is an increase in noise whilst pulling a shot, only on startup if at all.


----------



## Dave135

DavecUK said:


> @Dave135 I think they may be making preparations .....


 Thanks @DavecUK I did wonder and now intrigued.


----------



## Doram

Dave135 said:


> New to this forum and a proud owner of a Mara X. I opened up the machine up today to check it out before doing the mod and noticed that the steel plate that separates the water tank from the main compartment has a small partially cut area at the top that aligns with the existing notch at the front of the water tank itself. It's almost as if it has been designed to be 'popped' out to make a hole that the tube from the OPV could pass through and directly into the tank. I'd post an image but don't seem to be able to do that. Anyone else noticed this on their model?


 Interesting. I didn't know you need a minimum post count to add a photo, but in the meantime you can add a photo somewhere else on the internet (i.e. https://imgur.com/) and link to it from here (or do you need a minimum post count to add links as well?) 😉

Posting a link would also help you boost your post count. 🤣


----------



## DavecUK

Doram said:


> Interesting. I didn't know you need a minimum post count to add a photo, but in the meantime you can add a photo somewhere else on the internet (i.e. https://imgur.com/) and link to it from here (or do you need a minimum post count to add links as well?) 😉
> 
> Posting a link would also help you boost your post count. 🤣


 No, sadly the spammers can post links immediately.


----------



## Dave135

Doram said:


> Interesting. I didn't know you need a minimum post count to add a photo, but in the meantime you can add a photo somewhere else on the internet (i.e. https://imgur.com/) and link to it from here (or do you need a minimum post count to add links as well?) 😉
> 
> Posting a link would also help you boost your post count. 🤣


 Thanks, however I already tried that and it didn't work, for me anyway.


----------



## Dave135

Dave135 said:


> Hi all. New to this forum and a proud owner of a Mara X. I opened up the machine up today to check it out before doing the mod and noticed that the steel plate that separates the water tank from the main compartment has a small partially cut area at the top that aligns with the existing notch at the front of the water tank itself. It's almost as if it has been designed to be 'popped' out to make a hole that the tube from the OPV could pass through and directly into the tank. I'd post an image but don't seem to be able to do that. Anyone else noticed this on their model?


 So, this is what I was referring to. Notice the cuts in the steel panel. They are in the same location as the cutaway in the water tank. The water tank stands a little higher than this but if the small portion of steel was 'popped' out I reckon you could run the tube from the OPV directly into the water tank.


----------



## Doram

Dave135 said:


> The water tank stands a little higher than this but if the small portion of steel was 'popped' out I reckon you could run the tube from the OPV directly into the water tank.


 Thanks for sharing the photos and info. Looks exactly as you describe it. Strange that they ship the machine all ready for an OPV tube redirected back to the tank but don't finish the job.

Anyway, with this perpetration you can do it yourself in 30 seconds whenever you want, which is great!


----------



## pandabear

For those of us with no cut out, I wonder how easy it would be to drill a hole at the top and feed the OPV tube through like their intending with the newer units? I didn't want to do this method and bung up the fourth spoke on the brass X connector a-la @DavecUK because I wrongly assumed at the time that the pipes would be pressurised and was nervous about whatever bung I used would it pop off and leak in use.

Also wondering if they are putting this in almost as an optional mod that users/retailers can carry out? To ship a finished machine with a part that has been intentionally modified by design but then only partially finished as part of manufacture would be a bit odd.


----------



## Doram

pandabear said:


> I wonder how easy it would be to drill a hole at the top and feed the OPV tube through like their intending with the newer units?


 It would probably be very easy to do if you have the right tools and skill, and difficult if you don't. 🙂 It is basically cutting through a sheet of stainless steel and a sheet of plastic - not a problem if you have something to do it with, and the neatness depends on the person doing it.

If you don't want to take the risk, you can start by doing the mod internally and see how you like that. The internal mod is 100% reversible - no cutting, no permanent changes to the machine, just popping some tubes off connectors and connecting them in a different way. It is working perfectly for many people (myself included), is invisible (no cuts and no tubes going into the tank) and if you don't like it - you can just go back to stock or do the tube-to-tank mod instead.


----------



## pandabear

Doram said:


> It would probably be very easy to do if you have the right tools and skill, and difficult if you don't. 🙂 It is basically cutting through a sheet of stainless steel and a sheet of plastic - not a problem if you have something to do it with, and the neatness depends on the person doing it.
> 
> If you don't want to take the risk, you can start by doing the mod internally and see how you like that. The internal mod is 100% reversible - no cutting, no permanent changes to the machine, just popping some tubes off connectors and connecting them in a different way. It is working perfectly for many people (myself included), is invisible (no cuts and no tubes going into the tank) and if you don't like it - you can just go back to stock or do the tube-to-tank mod instead.


 I've already done the "no extras" mod, but there is a rasp there on start up and wonder if when the pump is actively trying to suck from the tank and now OPV pipe whether it would end up being detrimental to the OPV in some way? Otherwise I would be happy to leave as is.

FWIW all MaraX tanks have the notch AFAIK, so you'd literally need to cut/drill a corresponding hole or cut out in the stainless sheet if you have an older variant. The concern there again (as raised in the topic earlier) is if it has to go back under warranty they could question why you've drilled a hole!


----------



## Doram

pandabear said:


> I've already done the "no extras" mod, but there is a rasp there on start up and wonder if when the pump is actively trying to suck from the tank and now OPV pipe whether it would end up being detrimental to the OPV in some way? Otherwise I would be happy to leave as is.
> 
> FWIW all MaraX tanks have the notch AFAIK, so you'd literally need to cut/drill a corresponding hole or cut out in the stainless sheet if you have an older variant. The concern there again (as raised in the topic earlier) is if it has to go back under warranty they could question why you've drilled a hole!


 I don't see how the internal mod would have any negative effect on the OPV, but maybe this is better answered by DaveC.

@DavecUK - perhaps you can explain the pros and cons of redirecting the OPV to the pump vs. redirecting to the tank? I redirected mine to the pump based on your suggestion (and I love it), but then you did your own machine to the tank. I think this may have confused people considering which way to go, as we all value your opinion as an authority on the matter.

@pandabear1. Not all water tanks have the cut (mine doesn't). 2. You can try the back to tank mod without cutting anything to see how you like it: There is room to re-rout the tube without cutting the metal, and you can put the tube over the edge of the tank for the experiment (tank cover won't sit flush). I believe a metal drill will make a hole in the case, or you could cut it with a Dremel or similar tool.


----------



## DavecUK

Doram said:


> I don't see how the internal mod would have any negative effect on the OPV, but maybe this is better answered by DaveC.
> 
> @DavecUK - perhaps you can explain the pros and cons of redirecting the OPV to the pump vs. redirecting to the tank? I redirected mine to the pump based on your suggestion (and I love it), but then you did your own machine to the tank. I think this may have confused people considering which way to go, as we all value your opinion as an authority on the matter.


 These are the pros and cons for *me:*

Pros



Neat installation, not visible externally


been done before in the past (Dallacorte and others)


Cons:



My machines need to operate close as possible to stock, I might get next years firmware or revised parts to try. They are mine in as much as manufacturers expect me to store them not sell them.


I like to be able to check outflow from expansion valve sometimes (diagnostic)


I'll not get the air effect..(but that's simply an audible issue and not going to damage anything).


My mod was easy with the minimum of work to do...(I'm lazy)


I do test of concept stuff, hence my mod was to check doing it my way (potentially for future Lelit changes I might advise)


----------



## Doram

DavecUK said:


> Pros
> 
> 
> 
> Neat installation, not visible externally
> 
> 
> been done before in the past (Dallacorte and others)
> 
> 
> Cons:
> 
> 
> 
> My machines need to operate close as possible to stock, I might get next years firmware or revised parts to try. They are mine in as much as manufacturers expect me to store them not sell them.
> 
> 
> I like to be able to check outflow from expansion valve sometimes (diagnostic)
> 
> 
> I'll not get the air effect..(but that's simply an audible issue and not going to damage anything).
> 
> 
> My mod was easy with the minimum of work to do...(I'm lazy)
> 
> 
> I do test of concept stuff, hence my mod was to check doing it my way (potentially for future Lelit changes I might advise)


 So let's see if I understand correctly: for normal people, who don't test machines for manufacturers and just want to use at home -

*Internal mod*

Pros



Neat installation, not visible externally


been done before in the past (Dallacorte and others)


100% reversible


Easier/Harder - no need to cut anything; but you do need to pop tubes off connectors and connect them in a different way


Cons



Might (or might not) hear some air noise in the system (an audible effect that will not cause any damage).


No option to check outflow from expansion valve (diagnostic)


*External (back to tank) mod*

Pros



No air noise in the system


Done more often in the past (most machines)


Reversible (if you didn't cut the machine)


Easier/Harder - less need to pop tubes off connectors; but you do need to cut plastic tank and possibly the metal case for a neater installation (if machine didn't come pre-cut).


Option to measure outflow from expansion valve (diagnostic)


Cons



Less neat installation - OPV tube runs to the tank, need to cut tank and/or metal (if machine didn't come pre-cut)


Easier/Harder - need to cut tank and/or metal (if machine didn't come pre-cut); less tubes to move.


Not completely reversible (if you cut the tank/metal).


@DavecUK - 1. Do you agree to the above? 2. If you were a normal user, which mod would you choose for your own machine (disregarding laziness, as I think it's fair to say that both options are easy to do)?


----------



## DavecUK

I'd probably reroute the output to the pump....with one caveat, I don't know how the modified Lelit quiet pump would react long term, presumably OK.


----------



## Dave135

DavecUK said:


> I'd probably reroute the output to the pump....with one caveat, I don't know how the modified Lelit quiet pump would react long term, presumably OK.


 and that was probably my only concern, if it might compromise the pump performance but reading this and previous posts that seems like a low risk. Presumably any air in the OPV line post mod would be pushed through the first time the OPV opens (as in a backflush), effectively bleeding the system?


----------



## DavecUK

@Dave135 I think you will be OK


----------



## pandabear

I just had a look when filling my water tank and mine too has the metal tab lasered out but not popped out. My machine is a Feb 2021 production unit. Looking at it, I'm not convinced the gap would be big enough to fit the OPV tube through freely, it would almost certainly be pinched and therefore angle upwards? Second photo is to provide comparison to the left-hand side gap that other uses have routed the OPV pipe through.

I'm usually a neat freak and would prefer the internal method going forward but the extra noises and unknown longevity of the pump being issue-free do make me wonder if it would be better to route it back through into the tank directly.


----------



## Dave135

pandabear said:


> I just had a look when filling my water tank and mine too has the metal tab lasered out but not popped out. My machine is a Feb 2021 production unit. Looking at it, I'm not convinced the gap would be big enough to fit the OPV tube through freely, it would almost certainly be pinched and therefore angle upwards? Second photo is to provide comparison to the left-hand side gap that other uses have routed the OPV pipe through.
> 
> I'm usually a neat freak and would prefer the internal method going forward but the extra noises and unknown longevity of the pump being issue-free do make me wonder if it would be better to route it back through into the tank directly.


 Yes, I checked mine and agree, the path of the tube is not as clear as I originally thought it would be. It looks like something might be changing for future models. The feedback from @DavecUK and experience of @MediumRoastSteam, @Doram and others is enough for me to take the tidy, reversible, internal mod and re-route the OPV back to the pump. I'll run some before and after tests, with the cover open, to see if I can spot any variations in sound etc. Not sure when I will get around to this but will post results when I do.


----------



## DavecUK

It's important to point out that vibe pumps don't suffer from cavitation damage like rotary pumps can. For that short moment the pump is running without water, or much water, but isn't really running "dry" as within moments it's full. So I'm almost 100% certain no pump damage will result from rerouting.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

pandabear said:


> I'm not convinced the gap would be big enough to fit the OPV tube through freely, it would almost certainly be pinched and therefore angle upwards


 How wide / tall is the gap? The hose is 8.5mm outer diameter - if it's the same as the Elizabeth.


----------



## Doram

pandabear said:


> I'm not convinced the gap would be big enough to fit the OPV tube through freely, it would almost certainly be pinched and therefore angle upwards





MediumRoastSteam said:


> How wide / tall is the gap? The hose is 8.5mm outer diameter - if it's the same as the Elizabeth.


 Even if the tube doesn't completely clear the slot and is a little pinched, I doubt that this will restrict the flow from the OPV enough to create any problem for the discharge. It would be very stupid to make a slot that is too small for its purpose, and I trust Lelit they have checked it.


----------



## pandabear

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How wide / tall is the gap? The hose is 8.5mm outer diameter - if it's the same as the Elizabeth.


 The gap allows for about 7mm at a push when you force the water tank back and bow the plastic a little. You can see this from a bottle pourer tip I've used which is circa 7mm diameter. It would be a fiddle and would not be a flush or neat fit.

The other picture I have taken shows where the cut out is relative to the water tank cut out - it's below it! Ridiculous design if this is what they're intending...


----------



## Doram

pandabear said:


> The other picture I have taken shows where the cut out is relative to the water tank cut out - it's below it! Ridiculous design if this is what they're intending...


 Ouch! Looks like they need to make the cut in the top panel for it to align (yuck), or make the cut in the tank much deeper. This might explain why they are not re-routing to the tank yet.

Go on then, brave it, do the internal version and join the club. 😉

P.S. I can't believe I didn't see it before, but contrary to what I said my tank does have the cut! I never noticed it, must be the brain going. I guess this was left over from the original intention to route the OPV to the tank. They changed their mind, routed the discharge to the tray and left the cut in the tank...


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram @pandabear @Dave135

I don't want to ruin the excitement for future versions but... Let's face it... Its just normal for manufacturers to use similar panels/design which fit others machines.

Well, on the normal Mara PL62 (Not X)... Looks like the same panel is used... And cut so the hoses (OPV / Pump feed) go through.









Party is over chaps. 🤣 Sorry. 😂

Source:






Forget watching TV in the evening. LelitInsider and Coffeetime is the way forward. 😉


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Well, on the normal Mara PL62 (Not X)... Looks like the same panel is used... And cut so the hoses (OPV / Pump feed) go through.


 In the old Mara there is a gap between the tank and the metal panel, so the tubes can bend to go through the hole. On the X the tank is flush with the panel, so if the cuts aren't aligned it will be difficult to pass the tube. I don't know if this is the reason for not redirecting to the tank, now or in the past. Surely, if they want to do it they will find a way - it's not rocker science.

I am curious regarding the process, but don't really care - my machine is already sorted, so every day is a party. 😉🤣


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> In the old Mara there is a gap between the tank and the metal panel, so the tubes can bend to go through the hole. On the X the tank is flush with the panel, so if the cuts aren't aligned it will be difficult to pass the tube. I don't know if this is the reason for not redirecting to the tank, now or in the past. Surely, if they want to do it they will find a way - it's not rocker science.
> 
> I am curious regarding the process, but don't really care - my machine is already sorted, so every day is a party. 😉🤣


 My point here is not about the the OPV routing back to tank for the MaraX. But about the fact they are using the same panel, and they cut that part for the PL62, but not for the MaraX. So I don't think Lelit is considering routing the MaraX OPV back to the tank, nor are in the process of doing so. The pre-cut on the panel is no news, so, safe to assume that what we are seeing here is not a consequence of R&D, but a consequence of reusing parts.


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My point here is not about the the OPV routing back to tank for the MaraX. But about the fact they are using the same panel, and they cut that part for the PL62, but not for the MaraX. So I don't think Lelit is considering routing the MaraX OPV back to the tank, nor are in the process of doing so. The pre-cut on the panel is no news, so, safe to assume that what we are seeing here is not a consequence of R&D, but a consequence of reusing parts.


 I think you may be wrong on this. The old Mara top panel is different from the top panel on Mara X (see photo of the X below) - it isn't the same panel.
The pre-cut is a new thing they didn't do for the X until recently. Add to that what @DavecUKsaid about Lelit considering to direct the OPV to the tank and I think it may well be that this is exactly what they are doing. Or maybe not? 🙂

In ant case, all we need is some patience and we will know where the wind blows. 🌬


----------



## pandabear

I'm just wondering if anyone who is more intelligent than me could find a way of isolating the potential issue of the air in the OPV tube? Could you install a valve that allowed the OPV to discharge water into a further piece of piping (call it a "holding chamber") and then connect this holding chamber to the pump, so that the pump pulls that water from the chamber and nothing else (ie. it doesn't continue sucking air from the OPV tube)?

As I'm thinking it through you'd need a valve that would release water through when it was deposited to the valve but wouldn't allow air through/would close when there is no water present. I might be trying to engineer something that doesn't exist so shoot me down if so!


----------



## Doram

pandabear said:


> I'm just wondering if anyone who is more intelligent than me could find a way of isolating the potential issue of the air in the OPV tube? Could you install a valve that allowed the OPV to discharge water into a further piece of piping (call it a "holding chamber") and then connect this holding chamber to the pump, so that the pump pulls that water from the chamber and nothing else (ie. it doesn't continue sucking air from the OPV tube)?
> 
> As I'm thinking it through you'd need a valve that would release water through when it was deposited to the valve but wouldn't allow air through/would close when there is no water present. I might be trying to engineer something that doesn't exist so shoot me down if so!


 You could direct the OPV discharge tube to a small container inside the machine (if you can find a place for it), then put a second tube from the bottom of that container to the pump inlet (connected as a junction to the tube from the water tank to the pump inlet). Any air in the OPV discharge would then float to the top of your container and not get to the pump. Essentially, this would be adding a mini water tank inside the case, and it would perform the same as directing the discharge to the tank.

Is this worth the trouble? IMO it doesn't. If I want to go the internal route I would do it direct (as I did), and if I was so worried about air from the OPV going to the pump - I would go via the tank.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> In ant case, all we need is some patience and we will know where the wind blows


 Indeed. Let's see what happens... But I thought you said your MaraX also has the cut on the panel? And yours if from mid 2020 right? Meaning... They've been thinking of doing this all along but never got to do it?

Edit: Maybe I'm getting confused. You said yours have a cut in the tank... But maybe not the panel?


----------



## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Edit: Maybe I'm getting confused. You said yours have a cut in the tank... But maybe not the panel?


 Exactly! I have a cut in the plastic water tank, but not in the metal panel.

I think they have a problem: Because the tank is now (in the X) flush with the panel, the notch for the OPV tube in the tank and the case need to align.

If you look at the photo from @pandabear, you clearly see that the current cut in the tank doesn't align with the cut in the metal panel. To make it clear, there are two metal panels: a vertical one separates the water tank compartment from the rest of the machine, and a top horizontal panel which covers the top of the machine (the cup warmer).

The current pre-cut is in the vertical panel inside the machine, but it sits too low for the cut in the water tank. I can see two options to sort that: 1. Make the cut in the water tank deeper, so it reaches the cut in the vertical panel; or 2. Make the cut in the top horizontal panel where the cut in the tank is (but that would be really horrible, with the cut in the top panel and OPV tube visible from above when standing in front of the machine.

Until they sort this issue, they don't have a good way to direct the OPV to the tank, so maybe this is why they don't do it yet?


----------



## nschnei1

pandabear said:


> I'm just wondering if anyone who is more intelligent than me could find a way of isolating the potential issue of the air in the OPV tube? Could you install a valve that allowed the OPV to discharge water into a further piece of piping (call it a "holding chamber") and then connect this holding chamber to the pump, so that the pump pulls that water from the chamber and nothing else (ie. it doesn't continue sucking air from the OPV tube)?
> 
> As I'm thinking it through you'd need a valve that would release water through when it was deposited to the valve but wouldn't allow air through/would close when there is no water present. I might be trying to engineer something that doesn't exist so shoot me down if so!


 I have one idea to share on the topic of "avoiding air to the pump".

For context - I myself made the "full" mod in the early days, and suffered from the mystery air issue. While I understand there's no major risk to the hardware, it still felt unpleasant and I eventually reverted the mod to put the OPV hose into the tank instead. Easy enough.

When I originally made the "full" mod, I was using hard tap water with a Lelit resin filter. After a couple of weeks I switched to really soft bottled water (hooray for the efficient machine not wasting bottled water!) without a filter, and still had the issue. I kept the "full" mod probably ~2 months and watched it closely - I operated the machine for most of that time without a lid on top so I could actually see the top of the OPV. I wanted to see if eventually all the air would bleed from the circuit. No luck. It's really strange. Anecdotally, I would notice the air bubbles form more quickly after freshly filling the tank, which reinforces my amateur theory that it's dissolved gas in the water itself. I can't think of any other source....

Either way - fact is: some people are getting air to the pump. I noticed this a while back and just never commented until now - maybe it'll help someone:

When I executed my "full" mod, I followed the original instructions very precisely (quoted below). I used a 'T' connector with the OPV hose coming in from the top, and the connector placed really close to the pump intake. It looked exactly like the image in the original instructions.

A while ago @Glen posted a video of his machine that came pre-modified (also quoted below). There's a difference in the connector *and* the placement of that connector as compared to the original instructions. The shop reused a 'Y' connector, and placed it further away from the pump. What's intriguing about this is: In this orientation, the 'Y' is at a high-point in the hose from the tank -> pump, and the OPV hose comes down into the top of the 'Y'.

After watching my own machine's behavior for quite some time, I wonder if this orientation of a 'Y' connector further from the pump will reduce the amount of air that ultimately gets pulled into the pump. When an air bubble forms, it'll naturally sit at the high point in the OPV hose and water from the OPV will flow around the bubble and fall down into the pump intake. If the 'Y' connector is not "favoring" the OPV hose the way the 'T' connector might have been, then maybe there's a reduced chance for the air to reach the pump.

I have no idea whether this is a significant difference or not, but I imagine it making a marginal improvement for someone who otherwise is getting the mysterious air issue. I'm not anxious to update my mod anytime soon to experiment, but perhaps this advice is helpful for anyone on the fence now 

For what it's worth, I REALLY love this mod in either version and am *super* happy it was shared in the first place. I don't think of this as a criticism of the original approach, rather an optimization for those of us with the really weird phantom air appearing in our closed circuits 🤪



> On 23/02/2021 at 02:21, Glen said:
> 
> You've been such a good sport making lots of videos for us Dave, so I thought I'll go one better than a photo and show the whole plumbing in a video. Turns out my Mara X came to me brand new already modded.


----------



## Andrewczy

Doram said:


> As we have some confusion about variations for this mod, I created illustrations that hopefully will make it clearer.
> 
> Basically, we have 3 alternatives as shown below. I included animations within the descriptions, and still versions at the bottom.
> [The illustrations are showing: 1) Original stock configuration; 2) Simplest mod - OPV to tank; 3) Full mod with two added 3-way connectors; and 4) Full mode with existing connectors].
> 
> *1. Simplest option: OPV goes back to tank*
> 
> The Tube from the OPV goes to the tank. The remaining entry on the X connector needs to be blocked (or replaced with a 3-way connector). some prefer this option because they report a change in the noise from the machine with the full mod. Others haven't noticed a change in noise or are not bothered by it and prefer the full mod:
> 
> 
> View attachment 53557
> 
> 
> *2. Full (Original) mod: requires two added 3-way connectors*
> 
> The 4-way connector is replace with a new 3-way connector, and a second new 3-way connector is used to connect the OPV tube to the pump inlet:
> 
> 
> View attachment 53558
> 
> 
> *3. Full mode using only existing connectors (no extra parts needed)*
> 
> This version is similar to the original full mode, only instead of replacing the 4-way connector, it cleverly moves an existing 3-way connector to create the exact same result without any extra parts:
> 
> 
> View attachment 53559
> 
> 
> *In case those animations are not easy enough to follow, here are the non-moving versions:*
> 
> 
> View attachment 53563
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53561
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53560
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 53562


 Thanks for these illustrations. I've been thinking about this now that I'm doing my own water and was going to give the easier mod option a try. How am I meant to block off the remaining entry to the x connector however?


----------



## pandabear

Andrewczy said:


> Thanks for these illustrations. I've been thinking about this now that I'm doing my own water and was going to give the easier mod option a try. How am I meant to block off the remaining entry to the x connector however?


 You can cut a small part of the piping inside the water tank and use that, or buy some piping and connect that up. @DavecUK just bunged up the piping he used with a plastic cap end. It's important to note that it's not a pressurised pipe system so you just need to make sure it's blocked adequately so no water will escape, no need to ensure it's pressure tight.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

pandabear said:


> no need to ensure it's pressure tight.


 Unless... The safety valve pops. 🙂


----------



## Doram

Andrewczy said:


> Thanks for these illustrations. I've been thinking about this now that I'm doing my own water and was going to give the easier mod option a try. How am I meant to block off the remaining entry to the x connector however?


 The elegant option is to replace the 4-way connector with a 6mm 3-way connector. They are a quid online delivered (e.g. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/292759784276?hash=item4429d7cb54:g:iDwAAOSw1iVbuMSG) or you can get then at Halfords: https://www.halfords.com/tools/fuses-electricals-and-fixings/fixings/halfords-hose-connector-y-piece-6mm-hfx373-869180.html or you can be fancy and get the same in brass (but that will set you back a massive £2.29 )


----------



## pandabear

I undid the "clean" mod as the noise of the OPV getting trapped air in it was frustrating me, made a groove in my water tank and re-routed the OPV hose back to there a la @DavecUK

Now I'm getting this noise and I cannot fathom where from: https://photos.app.goo.gl/rtn9PF9Nv8Z3X72n7

Only happens on full pressure ramp. Can't see anything obvious moving or rattling. Any ideas? Tearing my hair out with this whole thing at the moment!


----------



## DavecUK

pandabear said:


> I undid the "clean" mod as the noise of the OPV getting trapped air in it was frustrating me, made a groove in my water tank and re-routed the OPV hose back to there a la @DavecUK
> 
> Now I'm getting this noise and I cannot fathom where from: https://photos.app.goo.gl/rtn9PF9Nv8Z3X72n7
> 
> Only happens on full pressure ramp. Can't see anything obvious moving or rattling. Any ideas? Tearing my hair out with this whole thing at the moment!


 If you look round the Kitchen, you will see a small child...this is probably emitting the noise.

If your talking about that high-pitched oscillating sound, then that's the expansion valve resonating (like a reed). Just move the adjuster a little bit one way or the other, and it will most likely stop.


----------



## pandabear

DavecUK said:


> If you look round the Kitchen, you will see a small child...this is probably emitting the noise.
> 
> If your talking about that high-pitched oscillating sound, then that's the expansion valve resonating (like a reed). Just move the adjuster a little bit one way or the other, and it will most likely stop.


 I hope the machine isn't teething too!

You mean the OPV valve? I have tweaked that so it is down at 9 bar on a blind basket, I don't really want to tweak it to move it away from that setting. Is that what you mean or have I got the wrong end of the stick?


----------



## DavecUK

pandabear said:


> I hope the machine isn't teething too!
> 
> You mean the OPV valve? I have tweaked that so it is down at 9 bar on a blind basket, I don't really want to tweak it to move it away from that setting. Is that what you mean or have I got the wrong end of the stick?


 Just move it a tad, to get off the resonance point...It might make 0.1 bar difference


----------



## Tim95

Apologies if this is an obvious question&#8230;

Is the water that is being rerouted already heated, and does this mod therefore put slightly cooler water directly back into brewing chambers, messing with the temp? Or is this just a loop pre-heating that puts unheated water into the boiler rather than the drip tray?

In essence, does this mod have any effect on temperature stability?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Tim95 said:


> Is the water that is being rerouted already heated,


 No.



Tim95 said:


> does this mod therefore put slightly cooler water directly back into brewing chambers, messing with the temp?


 No.



Tim95 said:


> Or is this just a loop pre-heating that puts unheated water into the boiler rather than the drip tray?


 Yes. It diverts back to the pump inlet, which will head to the Heat Exchanger (in simple terms, the brew boiler).



Tim95 said:


> In essence, does this mod have any effect on temperature stability?


 No.


----------



## DavecUK

@Tim95 The mod works on water that has not been heated. It should not affect anything.


----------



## Tim95

Thanks!


----------



## Doram

Tim95 said:


> Apologies if this is an obvious question&#8230;
> 
> Is the water that is being rerouted already heated, and does this mod therefore put slightly cooler water directly back into brewing chambers, messing with the temp? Or is this just a loop pre-heating that puts unheated water into the boiler rather than the drip tray?
> 
> In essence, does this mod have any effect on temperature stability?


 Perhaps this will help clarify the route of the water:









Taken from this page on coffeetime: http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/heat-exchanger-machines-how-they-work


----------



## logjames

This is the second video I have seen posted by Lelit Insider where they are working on a machine which has the OPV Mod&#8230;have they changed the design to incorporate this Mod??


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@logjames - it does look like they've done the mod, at least on that machine for sure.


----------



## Doram

logjames said:


> This is the second video I have seen posted by Lelit Insider where they are working on a machine which has the OPV Mod&#8230;have they changed the design to incorporate this Mod??





MediumRoastSteam said:


> @logjames - it does look like they've done the mod, at least on that machine for sure.


 Shall we send them a bill, @DavecUK? 😉


----------



## DavecUK

@Doram Well I can, you can't....cos i was first<lol>


----------



## pinserz

I really don't want to be a bother but I was wondering if you could reupload the photos? I can't seem to view them and I'd really like to reference them when I'm preforming the mod myself!


----------



## Proov

pinserz said:


> I really don't want to be a bother but I was wondering if you could reupload the photos? I can't seem to view them and I'd really like to reference them when I'm preforming the mod myself!


 Hello,

i followed this image posted some pages ago :










i did the mod this afternoon, i tested it. Everything seems to work fine. I havent tried to make an expresso, but i tried quickly with a blind filter, no water in the drip tray, pretty cool ???? i will try tomorow with some shots


----------



## woodbar

Luckily I am assuming my MaraX, bought from BB a month or so ago, obviously has the OPV mod because I have not had any excess water being dropped in the drip tray whilst brewing or back-flushing.

I am interested in why the non return valve is needed as there is not one fitted in the previous "how to change the pump" video but I do note that on that machine Lelit fitted a Y connector for the tank/OPV/pump tubing rather than a T? Surely the OPV is only generating overpressure bleed-off whilst the pump is operating so this is looped back into the pump and should not actually ever reach the tank?

They also have a hose with a preformed 90deg connector on top of the OPV? Every other picture I have seen of the innards just shows the normal hose pushed on the OPV?


----------



## Cino

Getting my Mara X later next week  I'm having a slightly mixed feelings right now. I didn't realize until now that there is a revisited model coming that might have some potential annoyances fixed (like the excessive discharge to the drip tray and flimsy feet), but in the end I got a good deal and will hopefully be enjoying great coffee later this week. Who knows what the wait time or cost would have been with the newer version...

Anyway, I have question about this mod. Is it possible to do this with two T-connectors instead of T- + Y-connectors or would it affect the water flow? In my country it seems to be hard to find these connectors that are meant/safe to use with consumed items. I found some 6 mm T-connectors from an online shop that sells beer brewing equipment.

Ordering from UK would be a hassle, because even really cheap items needs to go through customs and it causes extra fees + tax.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cino said:


> I found some 6 mm T-connectors from an online shop that sells beer brewing equipment.


 Welcome to the forum. I don't think it matters whether you use T or Y connectors.

Also, I'm not sure about brewing stuff, if they are not made of brass. If they are, then go for it.

If they are made of a polymer of some kind, I would worry about them getting hot, subject to vibration from the pump, and, eventually, crack. Personally, I'd use brass connectors.


----------



## Doram

Cino said:


> Anyway, I have question about this mod. Is it possible to do this with two T-connectors instead of T- + Y-connectors or would it affect the water flow?


 As @MediumRoastSteam said - the shape of the connector won't matter. They are both 3-way, only water passes through and the tubes they connect to are flexible so will connect find to either shape.

You could also go for the option that does the mode with the connectors that are already available in the machine - no new connectors needed. With this option you swap the blue plastic Y 3-way connector with the Brass X 4-way connector. The end result is exactly the same as with replacing the 4-way connector with two 3-way connectors. If you scroll back through this thread you will find illustrations for the connections for both these options.


----------



## AFM

woodbar said:


> Luckily I am assuming my MaraX, bought from BB a month or so ago, obviously has the OPV mod because I have not had any excess water being dropped in the drip tray whilst brewing or back-flushing.


@woodbar Does your machine have the red Lelit logo or the new black painted logo as shown on Lelit website? (see image below)

I'm planning to buy a MaraX and would prefer to get a newer one with this OPV return tube mod. I'm wondering if some units with the red logo have this mod or if I should be looking for a machine with the new logo.


----------



## woodbar

AFM said:


> Does your machine have the red Lelit logo or the new black painted logo as shown on Lelit website?


 Mine has the red logo and definitely does not discharge OPV excess into the drip tray.

Whether this update was done ex-factory or by the dealer (BB) I do not know.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

woodbar said:


> Whether this update was done ex-factory or by the dealer (BB) I do not know.


 Did you open the machine to see if the update was done? It could be that your OPV is simply not opening - or very little - and the pressure is set too high.


----------



## woodbar

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Did you open the machine to see if the update was done? It could be that your OPV is simply not opening - or very little - and the pressure is set too high.


 Thanks for the input.

No, I have only taken the top panel off so could not definitely follow the plumbing arrangement in the depths of the machine.

However the brew pressure was running at about 10.5 bar when I received the machine and I adjusted this down to 9 bar. At both settings I could see some movement of air pockets in the OPV overflow tube and no water appearing in the tray which would suggest the OPV is operating normally and excess water is going somewhere other than the drip tray or countertop!


----------



## DavecUK

Lelit did mention some time ago to me that they were going to make it standard as they have fixes the filter more tightly to avoid it lifting off (why they did it the other way in the first place). It would be entirely consistent for machines with the red Logo to have this mod by now (unless they are stock that's been hanging around, unlikely as they sell really well).


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

woodbar said:


> Thanks for the input.
> 
> No, I have only taken the top panel off so could not definitely follow the plumbing arrangement in the depths of the machine.
> 
> However the brew pressure was running at about 10.5 bar when I received the machine and I adjusted this down to 9 bar. At both settings I could see some movement of air pockets in the OPV overflow tube and no water appearing in the tray which would suggest the OPV is operating normally and excess water is going somewhere other than the drip tray or countertop!


 This is great news!


----------



## MisterH1337

Hey, the pictures in the guide are no longer available.

Is there an up-to-date versrion of this guide with the pics / or a video ? I would be glad to receive ^^


----------



## Doram

MisterH1337 said:


> Hey, the pictures in the guide are no longer available.
> 
> Is there an up-to-date versrion of this guide with the pics / or a video ? I would be glad to receive ^^


 Here are the original photos again (at the bottom of this post).

However, If you have patience to look through the thread, some people uploaded pictures and videos with the back plate off and they show things in a clearer way. For example:









If you don't have the extra connectors yet, you could do the mode without anything extra, by re-arranging the tubes with the connectors already available in the machine. This would save you from buying anything and will give you the outcome that is apparently how Lelit is shipping the machine now (The outcome of both options, with or without the extra connectors, is essentially the same). To do the mode without any extra parts, you can follow option 3 in the illustrations on this thread:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/58312-mara-x-opv-re-route-mod-3-alternatives-with-illustrations?do=embed

As promises above, here are the original photos:

























@DavecUK - any idea what happened to the pictures in the opening post? Is there a way to get them back there?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Doram There are some images in the Elizabeth thread which are no longer there either.. I noticed this a while back.


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Doram There are some images in the Elizabeth thread which are no longer there either.. I noticed this a while back.


 Many of my images across the forum are also missing


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@DavecUK - retention policy maybe? Or just data loss?


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @DavecUK - retention policy maybe? Or just data loss?


 Retention policy...pff. Nah, data loss, I suspect someone fecked something up.


----------



## MisterH1337

Doram said:


> Here are the original photos again (at the bottom of this post).
> 
> However, If you have patience to look through the thread, some people uploaded pictures and videos with the back plate off and they show things in a clearer way. For example:
> 
> 
> View attachment 61173
> 
> 
> If you don't have the extra connectors yet, you could do the mode without anything extra, by re-arranging the tubes with the connectors already available in the machine. This would save you from buying anything and will give you the outcome that is apparently how Lelit is shipping the machine now (The outcome of both options, with or without the extra connectors, is essentially the same). To do the mode without any extra parts, you can follow option 3 in the illustrations on this thread:
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/58312-mara-x-opv-re-route-mod-3-alternatives-with-illustrations?do=embed
> 
> As promises above, here are the original photos:
> 
> 
> View attachment 61171
> 
> 
> View attachment 61167
> 
> 
> View attachment 61169
> 
> 
> @DavecUK - any idea what happened to the pictures in the opening post? Is there a way to get them back there?


 Thank you for the extensive information @Doram!

I don't have good hands and I'm afraid to mess up my machine (I tried to detach the tube when adjusting the OPV pressure and gave up and dit it with the tube attached because I felt like i would twist/tair apart)

What variation of the mod you would recommend for me if I already have 1 T splitter? The original post is for 2 splitters 😅

I also prefer to leave everything completely reversible


----------



## DavecUK

DavecUK said:


> Retention policy...pff. Nah, data loss, I suspect someone fecked something up.


 Apparently the images will gradually repopulate...fingers crossed. Presumably due to a server move.


----------



## Doram

MisterH1337 said:


> What variation of the mod you would recommend for me if I already have 1 T splitter? The original post is for 2 splitters 😅


 Both variations that direct the OPV discharge to the pump end up exactly the same: All the tubes that led to the tray before the mod still end in the tray, except for the OPV that previously led to the tray and now leads to the pump. So basically, both versions do exactly the same thing.

I think if I were to do the mod on a machine now, I would probably do the version that re-uses the original connectors, because: 1) This is what Lelit is doing so I would know (and can tell a prospective buyer [not that I have any plans of selling my machine, but still], that it's the same as what comes now from Lelit's factory); 2) Because I wouldn't need to buy the extra connectors (but this isn't relevant for you, as you already have them).

There are also tiny advantages to the original version using the extra connectors, and they are: 1) There are less tubes to disconnect and re-connect (because you can leave some of the tubes connected as they are, whereas with the other version you basically need to disconnect and re-connect all of the tubes). So the version with extra connectors is a fraction easier to do (the difference is negligible though, so no problem if you want to do the version with no extra connections); 2) Assuming you bought the brass connectors, you will be using stronger connectors than plastic, which are even less likely to fail. Again this advantage is very minor - Lelit is using a plastic connector so they must know it's strong enough + the original mod doesn't remove the plastic connector from the machine anyway. You could also do the version that re-uses the original connectors, and then use the brass 3-way connector you bought to replace the blue plastic 3-way connector that's already in the machine; then you will have all brass connectors...

So to sum up, I would probably do the version with no extra connectors, but you can do the one with extra connectors because there are slightly less tubes to disconnect and re-connect. Either will work and basically be the same thing.



MisterH1337 said:


> I don't have good hands and I'm afraid to mess up my machine (I tried to detach the tube when adjusting the OPV pressure and gave up and dit it with the tube attached because I felt like i would twist/tair apart)


 To disconnect the tubes, you want to apply pressure to both sides of the tube at the same time. If you take the end of a nose pliers and put it on the connector beyond the tube and wiggle it a bit, you can push the tube off the connectors quite easily. Those tubes are strong and I don't think you will break them easily (and even if you did, you can just cut the end off and re-connect it, so don't worry about it too much).

To re-connect the tubes to the connectors, take a cup with boiling water and dip the end of the tube in for 30-40. The heat will soften the tube and make it much easier to push onto the connector.


----------



## MisterH1337

Doram said:


> Both variations that direct the OPV discharge to the pump end up exactly the same: All the tubes that led to the tray before the mod still end in the tray, except for the OPV that previously led to the tray and now leads to the pump. So basically, both versions do exactly the same thing.
> 
> I think if I were to do the mod on a machine now, I would probably do the version that re-uses the original connectors, because: 1) This is what Lelit is doing so I would know (and can tell a prospective buyer [not that I have any plans of selling my machine, but still], that it's the same as what comes now from Lelit's factory); 2) Because I wouldn't need to buy the extra connectors (but this isn't relevant for you, as you already have them).
> 
> There are also tiny advantages to the original version using the extra connectors, and they are: 1) There are less tubes to disconnect and re-connect (because you can leave some of the tubes connected as they are, whereas with the other version you basically need to disconnect and re-connect all of the tubes). So the version with extra connectors is a fraction easier to do (the difference is negligible though, so no problem if you want to do the version with no extra connections); 2) Assuming you bought the brass connectors, you will be using stronger connectors than plastic, which are even less likely to fail. Again this advantage is very minor - Lelit is using a plastic connector so they must know it's strong enough + the original mod doesn't remove the plastic connector from the machine anyway. You could also do the version that re-uses the original connectors, and then use the brass 3-way connector you bought to replace the blue plastic 3-way connector that's already in the machine; then you will have all brass connectors...
> 
> So to sum up, I would probably do the version with no extra connectors, but you can do the one with extra connectors because there are slightly less tubes to disconnect and re-connect. Either will work and basically be the same thing.
> 
> To disconnect the tubes, you want to apply pressure to both sides of the tube at the same time. If you take the end of a nose pliers and put it on the connector beyond the tube and wiggle it a bit, you can push the tube off the connectors quite easily. Those tubes are strong and I don't think you will break them easily (and even if you did, you can just cut the end off and re-connect it, so don't worry about it too much).
> 
> To re-connect the tubes to the connectors, take a cup with boiling water and dip the end of the tube in for 30-40. The heat will soften the tube and make it much easier to push onto the connector.


 Thank you @Doram, I can't thank you enough 😊

Just to make sure, I can still pull off the mod with just a single brass T splitter and now extra tubing? Or do I have to order another connector and tube?


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## Doram

MisterH1337 said:


> Thank you @Doram, I can't thank you enough 😊
> 
> Just to make sure, I can still pull off the mod with just a single brass T splitter and now extra tubing? Or do I have to order another connector and tube?


 You can do the mod without any extra parts if you want. No new tubing is necessary. You don't need to use your extra connectors if you want to do version 3 in the illustrations, but you can use them if you want to do the original version of the mod, or if you want to do version 3 but replace the plastic blue connector with the brass one you have. It doesn't really matter which one you do - they are in essence exactly the same thing.

I think once you have the cover off it will be easy to understand what's going on and what you need to do. It's not rocket science - it's a clear tube that leads water from the OPV to point A (the tray) and you want to change it so it leads the water to point B (the pump). C'est tout.


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## Cino

I asked previously about this mod, and finally received my Mara X today.

The machine is manufactured 9/2021 and it is the new revision, with a new logo in the front panel and won't then require this mod 👍


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## MisterH1337

Doram said:


> You can do the mod without any extra parts if you want. No new tubing is necessary. You don't need to use your extra connectors if you want to do version 3 in the illustrations, but you can use them if you want to do the original version of the mod, or if you want to do version 3 but replace the plastic blue connector with the brass one you have. It doesn't really matter which one you do - they are in essence exactly the same thing.
> 
> I think once you have the cover off it will be easy to understand what's going on and what you need to do. It's not rocket science - it's a clear tube that leads water from the OPV to point A (the tray) and you want to change it so it leads the water to point B (the pump). C'est tout.


 Isn't it a bit dangerous to connect it to the water-pump + tank like in option 3?

What if it builds pressure in the pump?


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## Doram

MisterH1337 said:


> Isn't it a bit dangerous to connect it to the water-pump + tank like in option 3?


 The end result for options 2 (original mod) and 3 (same mod, but no new connectors needed) are the same: The OPV discharge goes to the pump. Option 1 is the simple re-direction of the OPV discharge to the tank.



MisterH1337 said:


> What if it builds pressure in the pump?


 There is no pressure build up to the tank inlet. The OPV only discharges water when the pump is working. When it does, most of the water goes to the group, and only water above the pressure the OPV is set to (~9-10 bar) is discharged. This water is sucked in by the pump, so there is no pressure buildup.

My machine, and many others that I believe have the mod, are running like that for a long time without any issues that I am aware of. Furthermore, this is apparently how Lelit is shipping new machines in the past few months, so for me this is enough to put my mind at rest that it's not a problem. You do have to make this call for yourself though, as no one else will take responsibility... 🙂

P.S. there were reports here that machines sold in Australia have also had this mod done for quite a long time now.


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## espressovendetta

Hi

This is my first post. Thanks for all the fascinating insights so

Another question about option 3 if someone would be so kind to explain. I will need to take it very slowly

unmodded the machine has a tube from the tank to the pump?

option 3 is expecting you to slot in a 3 way connector to insert the opv tube?

if it is one piece of tube how do you fit the connector?

I hope I have made myself clear.


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## Doram

espressovendetta said:


> unmodded the machine has a tube from the tank to the pump?


 Yes, this is correct. The pump draws water from the tank, then pushes it to the group.



espressovendetta said:


> option 3 is expecting you to slot in a 3 way connector to insert the opv tube?
> 
> if it is one piece of tube how do you fit the connector?


 Correct again. Both option 2 and option 3 need to connect the tube from the OPV to the tube that leads to the pump. To do this, you cut the tube a few cm from the entry to the pump. You then use a 3-way connector to connect the cut tube back (using two of the three connectors' ports). You then use the third port to connect the tube from the OPV. In other words - you use a 3-way connector to create a junction, and use that to connect the OPV discharge to that junction. The end result is that instead of having one source of water going to the pump (the tank), you now have two sources (the tank and the OPV).

Welcome to the forum. 🙂


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## espressovendetta

That's great thank you so much. Im a bit nervous as I am pretty guff on the DIY front. A final question. Is it necessary to remove the back panel for option 3 or is it just an easier job if you take it off


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## Doram

espressovendetta said:


> A final question. Is it necessary to remove the back panel for option 3 or is it just an easier job if you take it off


 I think it's not absolutely necessary to remove the back panel. (I didn't remove it, but I did version 3 so can't confirm 100%). Without the back panel you have far better access to the inside of the machine, so you can more easily see, connect and disconnect tubes (and for option 3 you will need to disconnect and re-connect a bit more).

You can remove the top and side panel, have a look and feel with your hands, then decide - if it's too tight for you to get in there and do the connections - then you can always remove the back panel.


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## emenel

Hi all.

I'm planning to do this mod soon, but have a lingering question -- Will backflushing with detergent be a problem after doing this? Could I end up with detergent in the pump somehow?

Excuse my lack of plumbing understanding here, I feel like I can follow these directions but don't totally have an understanding of how where the water actually flows in different situations.

Thanks again for all the amazing work.


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## Tim95

emenel said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I'm planning to do this mod soon, but have a lingering question -- Will backflushing with detergent be a problem after doing this? Could I end up with detergent in the pump somehow?
> 
> Excuse my lack of plumbing understanding here, I feel like I can follow these directions but don't totally have an understanding of how where the water actually flows in different situations.
> 
> Thanks again for all the amazing work.


 I've wondered this since doing the mod, as less pulycafe seems to come out the machine than I put in...


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## Doram

emenel said:


> I'm planning to do this mod soon, but have a lingering question -- Will backflushing with detergent be a problem after doing this? Could I end up with detergent in the pump somehow?


 No. Water from backflushing is discharged from the vent at the bottom of the group to the tray. It doesn't go back into the machine.



Tim95 said:


> I've wondered this since doing the mod, as less pulycafe seems to come out the machine than I put in.


 If this was possible, you would have dirty water circulating in the machine. 🙂


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## emenel

Doram said:


> No. Water from backflushing is discharged from the vent at the bottom of the group to the tray. It doesn't go back into the machine.
> 
> If this was possible, you would have dirty water circulating in the machine. 🙂


 Right, of course  Thanks for assuaging my concerns and my lack of knowledge about water flow in the machine


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## MisterH1337

@Doram Just came to take off the panels and peek inside the machine, and found out it was already modified (🥳) from factory even though i don't have the black logo (manufacturer date 07/2021)

Can confirm the wiring is exactly like option 3, didn't bother replacing the blue splitter to my brass one.


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## Nabooh

Thanks a lot for this tutorial, did the mod the Original modding way ( with two 3 ways T connectors ). I was a bit worried at first, but it seems to be working perfectly fine!

I have a question though!

I'm interested about buying a flow control modification like this one:






Just to be sure, it will not mess with the modification I made right? It won't make the internal modification more prone to leaking?


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## Doram

Nabooh said:


> Just to be sure, it will not mess with the modification I made right? It won't make the internal modification more prone to leaking?


 I have the mod and the exact same flow control device from Coffee Sensor, and am not aware of any issues.


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## Coolby

MisterH1337 said:


> @Doram Just came to take off the panels and peek inside the machine, and found out it was already modified (🥳) from factory even though i don't have the black logo (manufacturer date 07/2021)
> 
> Can confirm the wiring is exactly like option 3, didn't bother replacing the blue splitter to my brass one.


 Can you share some pictures, where every detail is visible?


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## Doram

Coolby said:


> Can you share some pictures, where every detail is visible?


 Here is a short video that I hope will make it easy to understand:






Looking at the top of the machine with the cover off you can see 4 tubes. 3 of them are connected to the tube that goes to the tray (using a 4-way X connector). The forth tube connects to the tube that goes from the water tank to the pump (using a 3-way connector). This photo shows which tube goes where:


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## JP60606

I've got a MaraX coming on Saturday, also from BB, so will confirm if it discharges into the drip tray. BB have updated the stock photo of the MaraX on their product page which shows it displaying the new logo now too.


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## woodbar

JP60606 said:


> so will confirm if it discharges into the drip tray


 I would be surprised if it does


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## JP60606

JP60606 said:


> I've got a MaraX coming on Saturday, also from BB, so will confirm if it discharges into the drip tray. BB have updated the stock photo of the MaraX on their product page which shows it displaying the new logo now too.


 Can confirm it does not discharge into the drip tray! Great machine, really happy with it as an upgrade from a Barista Express.


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## MisterH1337

Does anyone have a video showcasing the MaraX discharging the OPV water into the drip tray?


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## Doram

*IMPORTANT MESSAGE: *

*The instructions for this mod have been re-written from scratch. They include new images and incorporate all the insights and tips that were picked up along the way. Find the new instructions here:*

*https://*********************.com/d/142-lelit-mara-x-opv-mod-improved-updated-version-2022*


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## holybean

Just completed the mod this morning. Thanks for the updated info.

I will only add that it was far easier for me to do the mod by removing the interior panel separating the reservoir and the guts. 3 tiny nuts later and that panel was easily set to the side - though there are still some connections - for full access.

I did the version (3?) that simply re-arranges what is already there - Lelit's current method.


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## BuzLight

Hi, I am running into a issue.
After I rerouted the tubing, I'm putting the water tank back in place and turning the machine on to check for any leak. At machine startup, the pump is running non stop, and I have no idea if this is normal. I guess not, I feel like air is preventing it to push water where it should&#8230;
I always wake up the machine with a wifi power outlet in the morning, I have no idea for how long it runned before to compare.

Thanks for helping&#8230;


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## Coolby

Hi,

I wondering if anyone having issues found out what it could be regarding this mod. I know that the new machines have this exact thing already in them so I do not know why I keep having problems.

I did this modification half a year ago once, but reverted it because of issues:
- noise change: bubbling sound when the OPV opens and water is starting to flow towards the pump, there is a definite increase in the sound of the machine which I did not like, it was more quite before
- occasionally the pressure gauge indicator started to bounce a little, while showing the pressure rising, it was moving back and forth

Now this year I installed a flow control device to play around. The amount of water in the drip tray become so much that the machine was not usable so I did the modification again. The sound came back as experienced before, but I thought I have to live with it. Now the bouncing of the indicator came back as well. First just rarely now more frequently, the pressure is significantly dropping while I am pulling a shot. I am still investigating the issue, what happens really, as if a bunch of air would be in the system. I am planning to take apart the machine and run it to check if I see anything in the tubing.

Here is a video about it:
Video on Youtube.


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