# Upgrading from Gaggia Espresso



## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

After 17 years, my Gaggia Espresso has finally given up the ghost! Not bad for a reconditioned machine! I'm looking for something to replace it. Probably not another Gaggia because of the aluminium boilers, would prefer brass because I live in hard water area and have to filter the water. Currently considering a Rancilio Silvia or possibly a Fracino Piccino. Rancilio is cheaper, but also a single boiler, so temp surfing required. The Fracino is a double boiler, has a insert for water filter and is made in the UK so perhaps easier access to parts. I make mixture of espressos, lattes and cappuccinos. Any thoughts, recommendations, suggestions?

Rob


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi, I can do you a Piccino for £650 delivered if you are interested let me know! Andy


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Id have to consider the Nouva Simonelli Oscar 2

https://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=nuova-simonelli-oscar-2-coffee-machine&gclid=Cj0KEQjw-YO7BRDwi6Stp7T296ABEiQAD6iWMfrczKnKqldX1q7KK6MuD-KwbHEicMD34m5LTN5iHcAaAjBo8P8HAQ

And people seem very satisfied with their Sage Duo Temp Pro

http://www.johnlewis.com/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-duo-temp-pro-espresso-coffee-machine/p1749201?sku=234032367&kpid=234032367&s_kenid=26e3ab6e-2a68-ade9-63a9-000057918f19&s_kwcid=402x351730&tmad=c&tmcampid=73


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

I've just moved to a double boiler, [expobar office leva] and found it's quite a learning curve from the Classic, but an enjoyable one.

Steaming is vastly superior... in fact it's almost too powerful for a single 'white' drink.

The other thing that really surprised, even when I've pulled a 'bad' espresso... it's still drinkable... wasn't always the case with the Classic.

What's your budget... it will have to be more than a 17 year old Gadge


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

It'll definitely be more, I only paid £99 for the Gaggia as a reconditioned model! They don't make 'em like that anymore as evidenced by the comments about the 2015 classic. Don't want to overboard as I'm on the process of being made redundant after 14 years loyal service! Fracino looks nice but £650 is a lot more than a even a new Rancilio which seems to start at £350. I've considered 2nd hand, but the only Fracino I could see on eBay is £540, not a great reduction. The secondhand Rancho Silvias are all several generations back, in fact some nearly new ones are more expensive than new! I would love to move up to a double boiler, but even the Silvia should be a huge leap forward. The state of the inside of the old Gaggia boiler was quite gross, and i have worked hard over the years to try and keep it in good condition.


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## R6GYY (Nov 22, 2015)

If temp surfing is an issue for you on a single boiler - you might want to take a look at the Sage Duo Temp Pro (I know it is mentioned earlier). This has an auto-purge system which takes the boiler back down to espresso temp after steaming milk. It was one of the selling points for me. Can be got for around £300 these days I think. £350 rrp. The only 'downside' I have found so far is the proprietary 54mm portafilter with 3 lugs rather than the usual 2 - it does limit replacement opportunities and there is no bottomless equivalent available if that kind of thing is important to you.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

The Silvia is not a step up from a classic. It's a step sideways.

Sage Duo Temp Pro if that's what the budget allows for.


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

Surely a Silvia is a step up from a 2015 Classic? Also it means brass boiler vs aluminium - an improvement?

Love the avatar, Risky! A classic!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

id say the silvia is a better machine,, its better made using better parts and users seem to keep them for longer, so i deduce they are happier for longer


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yeah the thermostat is tons better .....

More gaggia owners on here by far tho


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

do you want to see the brew temp comparison chart again Boots?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

If it's a thermostat issue then wouldn't fitting a PID "fix" the gaggia and put it back on level footing, for a lot less than a new machine?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

2cvhound said:


> I'm looking for something to replace it. Probably not another Gaggia because of the aluminium boilers, would prefer brass
> 
> Rob





Missy said:


> If it's a thermostat issue then wouldn't fitting a PID "fix" the gaggia and put it back on level footing, for a lot less than a new machine?


Think 2cvhound wants to move away from aluminium boiler


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> do you want to see the brew temp comparison chart again Boots?


Nope I have had and used a Silvia and sold it . It was not a terribly pleasurable experience . No chart can convince me otherwise


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

Keen to move away from aluminium boiler because it does add a taste to the water. Replacing a traditional octagonal stove top espresso when camping with a huge stainless steel Bialetti made me realise how strong aluminium can flavour water.

I can see that the Sage is technically good, but it is SO ugly and modern and I dislike anything which is endorsed by celebrities.

Leaning towards the Silvia. Can anyone explain the point of the bottomless portafilter that are so popular?


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

The bottomless portafilter let's you see if there is any channelling helping you adjust your tamping/distribution. It's also nice to watch


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Happy with my Duo Temp Pro, can recommend it (subject to your dislike of the look!)


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

Thanks, that makes sense. Doesn't nice to watch also mean messy if you don't have the cup below in the perfect position?!!


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Not so much the cup but it can spray a bit so gets kinda messy. They're also easier to clean.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/La-spaziale-S1-Vivaldi-Mk-11-/252422400837?hash=item3ac58c2b45:gJwAAOSwepJXXVEn

is an ebay DB machine you might consider. La spaziale S1 Vivaldi Mk 11 with a "free" Mazzer thrown in (needs a few parts)

and a write up:

https://bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/Laspaziales1vivaldiMKIIcloserlookv4.pdf

If you can deal with plumbing in, with filtration too perhaps, I don't think you will be disappointed at a price under £500 for a £1200 machine

Edit: Have requested info on his comment "needs a service"


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Bottomless also allows you to get a taller/bigger cup on some scales under the base and still see what going on. Silvia is less prevalent on the forum due to its higher initial price than a gaggia, thus also tend to be more expensive second hand. Benefits over a classic are probably restricted to boiler made of brass, looks (personal thing) etc. PID'ing either would sort temp surfing for not a lot of money but you would still have a single boiler dual use machine w for steam etc

Hope of help

John


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

Thanks for both the links grumpy daddy! Ditto Johnealey for the advice.


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

I have gone with the sensible option, a Rancilio Silvia, because if I'm honest I don't really have a great deal of space for one of the DB machines and having used a single boiler for the last 17 years, it has rarely been a problem waiting to heat up / cool down for different procedures. If feeling adventurous I might look to PID in the future, but first and foremost I need to brush up on Barista skills. I found a very instructive video review of the machine by Seattle Coffee, but obviously need to improve technique to include getting the grinder fixed and possibly weighing the coffee which is something I had never even considered - I just fill up the portafilter to the right level when tamped. Huge thanks for all the support and advice! The forum is a whole new world!

I have ordered from Bella Barista as the forum feedback helps with making an informed decision on suppliers as well as hardware. I e-mailed Claudette yesterday and had a helpful reply almost immediately!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

A good decision,, im sure you will be happy for a good few years with the slivia.

I see your in Ipswich,, so am I


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## 2cvhound (May 2, 2016)

Have you found a good local supplier of coffee, or do you shop further afield?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

The only "local" suppliers I know of are Butterworth and Son in bury st edmunds and theres also Frank and Earnest which is in bury st edmunds as well

I get my beans delivered fromRave, I pretty much exclusively use them. They have plenty of single origins to try and for now they are my supplier of choice.

https://butterworthandson.co.uk/

http://frankandearnest.coffee/


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