# Call for volunteer for new RO + mineral water system - Sküma Water



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi everyone,

We are a London based company that has developed an RO + mineralisation system (Sküma) for coffee brewers. We have designed the system to reduce waste as much as possible and to add a specific amount of minerals back into the purified water. Our Sküma water allows you to maximise your home brews and maintain a consistent brew each time.

Our plan is to gift a volunteer (hopefully one of you guys) a pre-production sample in exchange for critical feedback. We are not yet exactly sure when we can get the unit to you but it should be sometime in October. TBC

Either way, any questions don't hesitate to reach out.

Alex


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I have a question about this: Does the remineralisation happen automatically? I know you supply a bottle of concentrate but it's not clear that it is added automatically to the water by the machine or if you have to measure it out and add it. If the machine adds it automatically, can the amount it adds be modified, and presumably you'd be able to use it with custom concentrates e.g. a sodium bicarb concentrate to target a certain alkalinity while minimising everything else?

It seems geared towards brew methods like filter/immersion rather than for use in an espresso machine based on the mineral compositions you quote so maybe @MWJBwould be interested in testing it.


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## shaunlawler (Feb 7, 2014)

I would be happy to test and provide feedback.

I have an Osmio Zero and I am based in London.

Can I ask how this product would differ?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

shaunlawler said:


> I have an Osmio Zero and I am based in London.
> 
> Can I ask how this product would differ?


 If you go to their website you can see how it differs https://www.skumawater.com/landing-page

The Osmio Zero attempts to achieve high purity through RO with the remineralisation filter designed to make the resulting drinking water taste good. This doesn't result in the best water for brewing coffee (though this is subjective) and it certainly seems to be a good water treatment option to avoid scaling in espresso machines even if it requires further remineralisation to increase alkalinity etc if desired. The Skuma is designed with water treatment for tea/coffee in mind, aiming for a supposedly ideal TDS, hardness/alkalinity for that use, though it doesn't appear to be boiler safe (not scaling) based on the info on their website.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have an Osmio Zero. I use it for protecting my machine primarily, then I drink about 2 to 3 litres a day, I use it for brewed coffee 2 or 3 times a week and also cooking. Taste is subjective but the water up here in Northumberland is fairly soft and tasty but in brewed coffee is quite noticeable. As many others will do, I will chuck my name into the hat for triallists


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Hi Alex

I'd also like to volunteer - I currently do not have an RO machine but would love to try one

Neil


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

If you can use your own remineralisation concentrate with the machine (it dispenses a set amount consistently) I'd love to try one too. Actually it could be very useful for cupping, so I could end up putting one through heavy use anyway.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> I have a question about this: Does the remineralisation happen automatically? I know you supply a bottle of concentrate but it's not clear that it is added automatically to the water by the machine or if you have to measure it out and add it. If the machine adds it automatically, can the amount it adds be modified, and presumably you'd be able to use it with custom concentrates e.g. a sodium bicarb concentrate to target a certain alkalinity while minimising everything else?
> 
> It seems geared towards brew methods like filter/immersion rather than for use in an espresso machine based on the mineral compositions you quote so maybe @MWJBwould be interested in testing it.


 Hi Rob,

So basically the minerals are added automatically to the mix using a peristaltic pump and yes you could personalise it with your own concentrate if you wish (however can pose some concerns if your mix is not sterile).


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

shaunlawler said:


> I would be happy to test and provide feedback.
> 
> I have an Osmio Zero and I am based in London.
> 
> Can I ask how this product would differ?


 Rob already explained it pretty well.

With Sküma you can decide to dispensed either pure RO water (for your coffee machines) or mineralised RO water (for your french press or pour-over). Our system allows you to fairly and consistently recreate the same brew water over and over again without the need of mixing your own minerals with demin water (store bought or home made). Since our system uses a liquid based remineralisation, it simply makes everything much more accurate (TDS, magnesium hardness etc.).
As a value added, mineralised water has great hydration properties that pure RO water doesn't.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

dfk41 said:


> I have an Osmio Zero. I use it for protecting my machine primarily, then I drink about 2 to 3 litres a day, I use it for brewed coffee 2 or 3 times a week and also cooking. Taste is subjective but the water up here in Northumberland is fairly soft and tasty but in brewed coffee is quite noticeable. As many others will do, I will chuck my name into the hat for triallists


 Great, that sounds good. Our main objective with this trial is the following: changes to the design are relatively easy to make at our stage of development. Collecting feedback from coffee experts like you guys can make the difference between innovation (which we want) and novelty (which we don't want to fall into).


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Uncletits said:


> Hi Alex
> 
> I'd also like to volunteer - I currently do not have an RO machine but would love to try one
> 
> Neil


 Hi Neil, excellent. Once we get all the names down, we will announce who will be receiving it.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> If you can use your own remineralisation concentrate with the machine (it dispenses a set amount consistently) I'd love to try one too. Actually it could be very useful for cupping, so I could end up putting one through heavy use anyway.


 Exactly Rob, that was our idea. We are still debating which concentrate people would love the most. The most feasible one at the moment is the mineral concentrate extracted from the Great Salt Lake in Utah (but a bit pricey with about $16 USD per bottle of 180mL - which means we would need to sell it at least at $25). We have contacted third wave water as well to see if they can supply their formulation into a liquid concentrate but no answers yet. 
How would you make your own concentrate? Mixing and matching (Epsom salt etc.) with distilled water?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@SkumaWater User error causes so many issues! yep, there will be some folks who have the skill sets to mix up a cocktail and there will be many others who do not! For me, I prefer to use what is supplied then I know all parties will be happy. Remember, in this game, taste is King and if the difference is not discernible to the many (super tasters are actually few and far between) then whether $25 or $2.50, you are not going to get a whole load of sales. People get used to the idea of buying cartridges .....would it be impossible to build the concentrate into tablet form so the water extracts as it passes over?


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@dfk41I get your point. We have done a fair amount of blind water taste tests and the results are promising. It would be interesting to do the same for coffee. The good thing is we can always alter the formulation until we get it right. 
With regards to the tablet form, we have done some tests and the result is pretty messy with a very low "reproducibility" factor from one cup to another. I am not saying it's not possible but there comes the problem of R&D. We have limited funds at our disposal and we would rather spend that on perfecting the device and use "off the shelf" concentrates. Hopefully in the near future we can develop our own.
Quick question, have you tried Third Wave Water?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> Exactly Rob, that was our idea. We are still debating which concentrate people would love the most. The most feasible one at the moment is the mineral concentrate extracted from the Great Salt Lake in Utah (but a bit pricey with about $16 USD per bottle of 180mL - which means we would need to sell it at least at $25). We have contacted third wave water as well to see if they can supply their formulation into a liquid concentrate but no answers yet.
> How would you make your own concentrate? Mixing and matching (Epsom salt etc.) with distilled water?


 The third wave water formula originally was no secret. They have since expanded their line to included different varieties and I'm not sure what the formulation is for those, though it shouldn't be difficult to figure out.

They originally used Calcium citrate, sodium chloride and magnesium sulphate to bring distilled water up to SCA specs (so about 40mg/l alkalinity from citrates which means it can't form scale and a total hardness of about 50mg/l Calcium/Magnesium (presumably)). It's easy to calculate the quantities of each based on that. I believe a problem with citrates (and I don't know if TWW got around it somehow) is they can promote bacterial growth, or at least people who add citrates to water report the water smelling a bit off quite quickly. It's never something I've seriously looked into. Other than that the problem with TWW for me is high chloride and sulphate concentrations, and it would be a concern too with the Utah water too.

I make my own concentrate with sodium bicarbonate and magnesium bicarbonate added to distilled water. In the past I used epsom salts and calcium chloride and didn't like the taste until I dropped chloride and sulphate to under 20mg/l, at which point I was getting so little hardness there was no point in bothering. So I didn't. I used potassium bicarbonate (sodium bicarb alone would put sodium around 20mg/l) alone for a long time and it was perfectly fine until I eventually got around to making a magnesium bicarb concentrate and found it increased perception of body and sweetness. I don't believe hardness affects extraction, only how you perceive flavours by altering mouth feel. I then ditched the Potassium for Sodium and limited Sodium to 10mg/l with the rest of the alkalinity coming from the Magnesium bicarb concentrate.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@SkumaWater I have not tried Third Wave water, mainly because my own water is more or less problem free from a boiler maintenance angle. I bought the Zero as insurance to save having engineer bills annually. I used to be very friendly with a barista from Malta who had a coffee shop nearby and water was his passion. We used to spend hours sampling bottles that the had made up by the addition of various minerals. I once heard a quotation that stayed with me........the fax machine was a brilliant invention, but totally redundant until someone else bought one.......the problems you face will be magnifies within the London area, and perhaps not so much in other parts of the country. That said, coffee enthusiasts like their kit


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## ronan08 (Dec 21, 2019)

Hmm I'm currently using reverse osmosis tap water and would be interested how constancy and taste would differ between methods I'd love to try a unit if available thanks


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@Rob1 I understand. When you say concentrate, how many drops or mL do you use of your concentrate when mixed with RO/demin water? I assume it cannot be too concentrated or else it makes dilution hard (might need to heat up the RO water when adding the sodium & magnesium bicarbonate). One of the advantages with Utah's Great Salt Lake concentrate is that it is an "extremely" concentrated liquid. Currently we use 14 drops (0.7mL) of their formulation per 1L of RO water - and gives us TDS about 110-165, magnesium hardness 56 ppm, calcium hardness 10-20 ppm and alkalinity 10-30 ppm (depending on your tap water).


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@dfk41 the quote is spot on. Do you use your Osmio to only feed water into your coffee machine, or do you use it as well if you make French Press or PO? Also do you drink Osmio water or you prefer tap water? 
(I feel like an investigator on a quest to find the holy grail of water)


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@ronan08 great, I have added you to the list. Do you use your RO just for your coffee machine or also for drinking, FPress, POver? Is it the Osmio?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@SkumaWater Ask away matey! The Osmio feeds my espresso machine. I do not have an electric kettle nowadays with the ability to produce 'hot' water. The machine I have is a twin boiler so if I have it switched on I can take hot water from there. I also have a Hario kettle that works on the halogen so I can and have used that on occasion. But, having owned the Osmio for some time now, even I can tell when I have used it. The first few cups of tea from it were absolutely spot on. I also use the Osmio for water for cooking provided it is in reasonably small amounts. Sometimes if I need 1 to 1.5 litres I have to use the tap. When making a FP or Clever or BoilBrew I now always draw the water from the Osmio. Am I convinced the cup is cleaner.....probably and you know the old monicker.......Whether you think you can, or whether you think you cannot, you are probably right anyway!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@dfk41 got it! For you personally, does the precise addition of minerals alone make our product worth it for you as an Osmio customer to change your system? (Don't hesitate to be honest).
It is also important to mention that our waste water is collected in a separate container (at the back of the device) and we encourage its use with house plants (they tend to love moderately hard water). This gives your filter a longer lifespan and you do not need to remember to empty your refill tank each time.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@SkumaWater Righty ho.....having thought about this for a bit. When I bought the Osmio it was my first delve into RO water. Due to being impressed by the system, and special offers they gave for forum members, I have 3 or 4 sets of filters which although reduced, still cost a bit. So, I doubt just yet, if I could justify buying a different system to do much the same thing. I use those words carefully, as I would never convince my non coffee drinking wife of any benefits for me. What I normally do when this happens, is just buy one anyway and tell her it is on test or something else (I can hear all the groans from non approvers, but I work on the basis if you want something done, then get on and do it!!).

I do not drink enough brewed coffee to justify it but if the taste is apparent then Santa comes once a year. I like the idea of being able to add back in to suit taste however, in fairness to yourselves, I would have to be able to see the whole package including price, on the table in front of me before I could make a call on swopping over.....hope that kind of lets you understand me!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@dfk41 that is a fair and understandable response. I'm sure we can workout some sort of special offer as well for the forum members. Maybe even propose a special exchange deal - "give us your Osmio and we give you a Sküma". Obviously need to run this by our more "finances oriented" team members who tend to disapprove my Oprah-like "gift one to everyone" approach.


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## 28267 (Dec 8, 2020)

@SkumaWater It looks very interesting, like @dfk41 and a few others we are Osmio zero users here but would be interesting in seeing how it compares and if it resolves some of the issues with the Osmio.

I got the Osmio partly to protect our expensive twin boiler expresso machine, but also as I hate the chemical taste and smell of our tap water. Being up in Yorkshire the water is fairly soft water collected from the local hills so is soft and was reasonably ok for not corroding the machine. The main thing Yorkshire Water have to do is filter/treat it to remove peat and reach the required turbidity. The issue for me is they seem to add a lot of chlorine.

We use Osmio for tea, coffee and drinking water probably about 5-6l per day. It works well for us and others have said we got a good deal on a pack with extra filters so set for a while.

Areas of interest and where you may improve on what we have. Splashing, the adjustable cup shelf could help here. We also have to use a jug to fill the bottle kept in the fridge as it doesn't fit under.

How the remineralisation works with liquid vs cartridge on current machine is of interest and maybe more consistent dosing and controllable?

Hot water - the first bit is cold, do you have the same issues? Seems variable how much comes out before thermoblock has got it to temperature.

Water usage and refill. How efficient is it with the separate tank? We use the 1-1.5l per 5l of waste water for plants etc here. How do you fill it? Our unit is under a cupboard so I have to pull it out to remove the tank so a pain. As you have to fill full each time I have to do it as my wife finds moving the machine and the 5kg weight too much.

Good luck with the machine it looks interesting but with the Osmio working it would need to be big step up to move and I suspect your trade in deal would have to be good to get past my Yorkshire wife!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> @Rob1 I understand. When you say concentrate, how many drops or mL do you use of your concentrate when mixed with RO/demin water? I assume it cannot be too concentrated or else it makes dilution hard (might need to heat up the RO water when adding the sodium & magnesium bicarbonate). One of the advantages with Utah's Great Salt Lake concentrate is that it is an "extremely" concentrated liquid. Currently we use 14 drops (0.7mL) of their formulation per 1L of RO water - and gives us TDS about 110-165, magnesium hardness 56 ppm, calcium hardness 10-20 ppm and alkalinity 10-30 ppm (depending on your tap water).


 They are liquid concentrates so no need to dissolve anything. Heating wouldn't help anyway, the small amount of sodium bicarb is easily soluble and Magnesium bicarbonate only exists in liquid form. If I were using Magnesium carbonate I would have to carbonate the water to get it to dissolve, heating would just make solubility worse. I use 5ml of the Sodium bicarb solution and 15ml of the Magnesium bicarb solution in 3 litres of water. I use a 5ml graduated pipette accurate to 0.05ml to measure the concentrates and ordinary kitchen scales to measure the 3 litres (well 2980ml) water.

I have used mixed concentrates before but they were too concentrated using 5ml in 3litres and sediment started to form in the concentrates over time as Calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate started to react and I ended up with the less soluble Calcium sulphate dissipating out of the solution which meant the composition of my brewing water was altered over time, not good when the entire point is consistency and control.

I've looked up the composition of the great salt lake and can't understand how you get those numbers unless they're just using the water to manufacture salts and then adding them in various amounts to pure water.... https://geology.utah.gov/popular/general-geology/great-salt-lake/commonly-asked-questions-about-utahs-great-salt-lake-lake-bonneville/#toggle-id-13. The water should just be really high with sodium chloride and have higher magnesium than usual. I also don't understand how you would get around the same problem I had above if there are such high concentrations of magnesium and calcium from sulphate and chloride sources, as you should see calcium sulphate sediment form over time too. I assume your Magnesium hardness is 56mg/l as CaCO3 not 56mg/l Magnesium itself...That would be about 14mg/l Magnesium and 6mg/l Calcium. The great salt lake water has 3.3mg/l Magnesium and 0.2mg/l Calcium. Ordinary tap water has very little Magnesium and almost all hardness should be removed by RO anyway. If the ratios of the chemical constituents have changed (going off Magnesium and Calcium) the "concentration of the lake water" is more accurately described as the use of lake water to manufacture various salts which are then used to remineralise water...as the ratios are completely different to the lake water.

To be honest I don't see the appeal of the Utah concentrate at all. It's expensive and you can easily source exactly the same chemicals that are in the water and simply add them to purified water in whatever quantity you wish. Doing this yourself would be cheap but might require a lab setting and lab analysis of the final concentrate for contamination before you could sell it, if I were you I'd be contacting a chemical manufacturer and asking them if they could manufacture water to a specific spec closer to home rather than use a 'natural source' on the other side of the world. That way you might avoid chloride and sulphate salts too.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Reading all this and thinking about it....one USP appears to be the ability to use a small peristaltic pump to add a concentration of highly enriched mineral water to the RO water on a consistent basis.. This gives some opportunities and some risks. let's get the risk out of the way first...



The fact that concentrate earns a little money..although this can still be sold


Sterilisation and remaining sterile for months and months


*Now on to the benefits/ideas.*



A system by which the user can make up their own concentrates is very desirable (and using the bottle provided


RO water can be boiled and made sterile and the dosing bottle can be sterilised


If the speed of the peristatlic pump can be altered, the solution doesn't have to stay sterile for 4 months or more (this then means you can't sell your own concentrate, unless the user can choose hi vs low speed)


Skuma can give people formulations to try and people can source their own additives


Eventually, Skuma might sell sachets


In this way, you can perhaps move to satisfy most people


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

You might have to use a UV light in the concentrate compartment. Another problem would be corrosion. My concentrates have etched the glass bottles they're stored in.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

AdG said:


> Areas of interest and where you may improve on what we have. Splashing, the adjustable cup shelf could help here. We also have to use a jug to fill the bottle kept in the fridge as it doesn't fit under.


 Great comprehensive description @AdG!
Quick question because I think I misunderstood something. You dispense your RO water in a jug that then dispenses in a bottle that goes in the fridge? Why not put the jug directly in the fridge. How tall is your bottle?



AdG said:


> How the remineralisation works with liquid vs cartridge on current machine is of interest and maybe more consistent dosing and controllable?


 The dosing is definitely much more consistent since the peristaltic pump controls how many drops go into the final water. That said, the system is not currently controllable since if it's a specific dosing issue, the concentrate can be altered to get closer to the desired composition.



AdG said:


> Water usage and refill. How efficient is it with the separate tank? We use the 1-1.5l per 5l of waste water for plants etc here. How do you fill it? Our unit is under a cupboard so I have to pull it out to remove the tank so a pain. As you have to fill full each time I have to do it as my wife finds moving the machine and the 5kg weight too much.


 With an incoming water of about 200-300 TDS you get a bit over two cycles without emptying the plant water tank 🌱. That is about 3.6L of purified water for 800mL of waste water = 1.1L of waste for 5L of purified water. If your TDS is lower, this will obviously increase the efficiency of the system.
All our movable tanks have been designed to be accessible from the front without the need of moving the device. The lid of the refill tank can also be used as a cup to refill your tank.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I drink around 2 to 3 litres a day and I like it as cold as I can get. I make my own ice cubes with RO water and store 2 x 1 litre glass bottles in the fridge. I am not sure if the fact the Osmio does not give a storage solution is a good or bad thing!


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

As an Osmio Zero user, there are a few things which could be improved upon, including a better way to handle low usage and short business trips (having to empty the system when away for a week or more is getting old quickly, as is dumping the first glass of water after a day without using the machine) and the ability to program the volume of water dispensed (The Osmio machine delivers too much water for most of the glasses I use). Some feedback on actual water temperature (event if it's a light to confirm that the water dispensed has reached the desired temperature) would also be a plus... although a temperature display would be even better.

I presume Osmio could also upgrade the firmwire on their machines to address these niggles, but competition may result in better products for us.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> They are liquid concentrates so no need to dissolve anything. Heating wouldn't help anyway, the small amount of sodium bicarb is easily soluble and Magnesium bicarbonate only exists in liquid form. If I were using Magnesium carbonate I would have to carbonate the water to get it to dissolve, heating would just make solubility worse. I use 5ml of the Sodium bicarb solution and 15ml of the Magnesium bicarb solution in 3 litres of water. I use a 5ml graduated pipette accurate to 0.05ml to measure the concentrates and ordinary kitchen scales to measure the 3 litres (well 2980ml) water.
> 
> I have used mixed concentrates before but they were too concentrated using 5ml in 3litres and sediment started to form in the concentrates over time as Calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate started to react and I ended up with the less soluble Calcium sulphate dissipating out of the solution which meant the composition of my brewing water was altered over time, not good when the entire point is consistency and control.
> 
> ...


 To be honest Rob, these are all fair points. We had attempted to get the formulation done by a couple UK based labs but their quote was always too high £20,000+ for something we see are relatively simple. This is why we decided to go with the easiest approach. However, I will follow your advice and we will try again reaching out to some labs.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@SkumaWater All you need is some access to horrible water, a chemist and a super taster!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> Reading all this and thinking about it....one USP appears to be the ability to use a small peristaltic pump to add a concentration of highly enriched mineral water to the RO water on a consistent basis.. This gives some opportunities and some risks. let's get the risk out of the way first...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Really great summary Dave. I like the idea of allowing users to try their own formulation. And this could be for coffee as well as water in general. The customisation is a really important part we want to focus on more - especially even playing around with vitamins and minerals for deficiencies. 
We need to have a think about altering the speed of the peristaltic pump. This might not be available for version 1 of the device though since I still don't have a clear idea as to how to go forward with it.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> You might have to use a UV light in the concentrate compartment. Another problem would be corrosion. My concentrates have etched the glass bottles they're stored in.


 The great salt lake concentrate contains antibacterial/microbial properties which allows it to have a shelf life of up to 10 years (unopened and according to the manufacturers of course). A UVC LED can be a relatively simple addition that we could make.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm not sure if I am your ideal tester, but I'd put myself down 🙂 - My usage would be as follows:

- Water for the espresso machine - (Ideally I would just draw pure RO water and remineralise it myself with Sodium Bicarbonate or Potassium Bicarbonate, as it's boiler friendly and will never scale);
- Drinking water (Fully remineralised by the unit);
- Tea (Fully remineralised by the unit);
- Occasional Americano (So this would be an espresso from the coffee machine topped up with remineralised water from the unit);
- Water for the steam generator iron (Same as the water from the coffee machine);

Sounds like a great product you are developing. I wish you all the best in coming to market with it! 👍


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## ronan08 (Dec 21, 2019)

I use an Irish company "gulp" it's a pump and filtration system which gets serviced annual by a technician it takes up a good bit of space under the sink but the tap is convenient water is used for everything kettle coffee machine French press drinking etc


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@SkumaWater I won't bother putting my name! 😂 You already have too many experts and legends on your trial list - @DavecUK, @dfk41, @Rob1, @Cuprajake, @MediumRoastSteam, @The Systemic Kid to name a few.

I think, someone already mentioned Mark @MWJB. If you want your unit tested extensively for brews, Mark is our go to person.

You are spoiled with too many choices. I recommend that you consider making 3 units available for testing - espresso, brew and water alone.

If you were to ask why water alone, we have got some experts with extensive knowledge of water! 😊

For the record, we have Osmio Zero at home used for espresso, brews, drinking, cooking, &#8230;.

Good luck and best wishes! 😊


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> - Water for the espresso machine - (Ideally I would just draw pure RO water and remineralise it myself with Sodium Bicarbonate or Potassium Bicarbonate, as it's boiler friendly and will never scale);
> - Drinking water (Fully remineralised by the unit);
> - Tea (Fully remineralised by the unit);
> - Occasional Americano (So this would be an espresso from the coffee machine topped up with remineralised water from the unit);
> - Water for the steam generator iron (Same as the water from the coffee machine);


 Great, thanks for that. I have added you to the list and will update you all with the final decision. We are now looking at a better mineral formulation to hopefully remove the need for having two different concentrates: for drinking water & for brewing.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> @SkumaWater I won't bother putting my name! 😂 You already have too many experts and legends on your trial list - @DavecUK, @dfk41, @Rob1, @Cuprajake, @MediumRoastSteam, @The Systemic Kid to name a few.
> 
> I think, someone already mentioned Mark @MWJB. If you want your unit tested extensively for brews, Mark is our go to person.
> 
> ...


 Excellent! Love hearing that, and I regret not having shared with all you guys earlier. Well I guess better late than never &#8230; We are currently planning on making a total of 5 pre-production units but not yet sure exactly how we will distribute them. 
Thanks for the lovely wishes!


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

SkumaWater said:


> Well I guess better late than never


 We have seen a lot of a large-scale production in Technology for our clients undergoing a design change after an MVP. That's why agile is a norm these days. The intent is do it once and properly. 😊


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## 28267 (Dec 8, 2020)

SkumaWater said:


> Great comprehensive description @AdG!
> Quick question because I think I misunderstood something. You dispense your RO water in a jug that then dispenses in a bottle that goes in the fridge? Why not put the jug directly in the fridge. How tall is your bottle?


 Was down to what we were using, my wife had a glass bottle with lid she likes for the water, so that gets filled from a measuring jug. Prefers glass to plastic for storage and we've not got a glass jug that fits. The bottle is around the same height as a 4pt Milk bottle.



SkumaWater said:


> With an incoming water of about 200-300 TDS you get a bit over two cycles without emptying the plant water tank 🌱. That is about 3.6L of purified water for 800mL of waste water = 1.1L of waste for 5L of purified water. If your TDS is lower, this will obviously increase the efficiency of the system.
> All our movable tanks have been designed to be accessible from the front without the need of moving the device. The lid of the refill tank can also be used as a cup to refill your tank.


 Sounds good, our TDS is a lot lower than that here, so sounds like it would be as efficient or possibly more so than our current system and filling/emptying from the front sounds useful, might even mean that I'd not have to fill/empty it all the time.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

ill be of no use,

i dont have any measuring equipment, lol


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> ill be of no use,
> 
> i dont have any measuring equipment, lol










????


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

No, i dip my finger in, say yep thats bout right...


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## jamesdoescoffee (May 7, 2021)

Morning Alex

If be very happy to take part. Our house has adults and toddlers that all drink hot and cold drinks of various types. Based in Cambs.

All the best.

James


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Good morning
@jamesdoescoffee,

Excellent I have added you to the list. Hopefully we can manage to get a couple more pre-production samples sent to you guys!


----------



## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Can you put my name in the hat too please? - message sent with my credentials

Thanks Philip


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@Beeroclock sure, added you to it!


----------



## Bradders172 (Dec 8, 2016)

I'm currently looking into using remineralised RO water for my new dual boiler machine amongst other things and having a RO system that remineralises the water specifically for coffee for me rather than me doing it manually is something I would be very interested in.

As has already been mentioned you have a strong list of forum experts to trial your pre production machines but if you are in need of any more testers I would be more than happy to trial one.


----------



## freemanator (Jul 13, 2021)

Just found your website while looking to solve my water issues for coffee, and while it may well be too late, and I won't bring as much to the table as others I'd like to throw my hat in the ring if it isn't too late.

Maybe I can fill a niche of being less obsessed and knowledgeable, and therefore hit more of the middleground where I imagine you'll be hoping to draw more of your business from.

Based in SW London, and currently drink a lot of Cafitierre coffee, with some espresso. Looking to add more filter into the rotation soon.


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@Bradders172 thanks for reaching out to the post regardless. We are currently still focused on actually making the samples and I have added you to the list. When we are done making them and testing them, we will decide who gets them and you will be considered as well. Will keep you updated!


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@freemanator Great, i have added you to the list and thanks for visiting our page. I will send you guys some photos and videos when the samples are ready and then choose who to send the devices to. I think having a mixture between "coffee experts" and more "casual" user would be really interesting. In the meantime don't hesitate to DM me if you have any questions about the product!


----------



## freemanator (Jul 13, 2021)

@SkumaWater Great, thanks very much.

Excited to see how this turns out, and keen to hear the feedback from everyone too


----------



## goodcoffeemadcity (Jun 22, 2015)

Hi @SkumaWaterI've been looking at changing my water solution for espresso recently, I currently use Brita filtered water for espresso (and tea/drinking water), I was looking at other filter options for coffee like peak water, BWT etc, but in the search for consistency, and keeping your coffee machine as scale free as possible, domestic filter jugs aren't ideal. I've considered an Osmio before but always ended up thinking bottled water is a more cost effective and fairly consistent solution as I really only drink one or two coffees a day, but I can't make peace with the amount of plastic bottles I'd use so stick with filters. Plus the Osmio would take a fair bit of counter space, which is at a premium, the Skuma does look smaller?

Anyway I'd be keen to test the Skuma and provide feedback and would like to add my name to the list, but I'll add that there are definitely people in this thread that volunteered who are more active forum members than myself and therefore should probably be ahead of me in line, my feedback would be on usability, taste/extraction results with coffee, and replacing a filter jug/kettle solution with an RO/remineralising solution for drinking water, coffee, tea etc. Either way, good luck with bringing the Skuma to market!


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @goodcoffeemadcity and thanks for reaching out, i have added your name to the hat 🎩 
I get you - bottled water is usually the most straightforward way of getting pure & consistent water but the obvious drawbacks are self explanatory. In terms of size, Sküma is more compact: with Osmio you are looking at a 47x20x45cm system while Sküma is 20x35x40cm. Which, to be honest is not a huge different. What is a huge difference though is in terms of user friendliness - with Sküma everything is accessible from the front, you do not need to constantly move the device on the kitchen counter to access the water tank. Both systems are also pretty similar in terms of efficiency however Osmio recirculates the waste water into the tap water tank which results in a inconsistent water composition (TDS) and shorter membrane life. 
I can already anticipate a question about price at the back of your mind. As a member of this group and if you decide to back us on crowdfunding you will have access to a 40% discount aka £179 + free UK shipping.

I will now stop rambling and let you on with your day - thanks for your interest, means a lot!


----------



## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

I'd also like to throw my hat into the ring if it's not too late? There are way more experenced folk here that would be better qualified than I, but I do have some experience of water quality and using RO water for other hobbies in the past (tropical/marine aquariums etc).

I have an espresso machine that I'd like to keep limescale free, living in a moderately hard water area. We drink a lot of coffee, tea and water through a Britta filter, but it's not ideal. I'm currently weighing up using an RO system over filtered (not adequate) and bottled water (huge plastic waste), so I may be able to offer an unbiased opinion. Really looking forward to seeing what you can offer as an alternative to the other systems, in particular with regards to remineralisation.

Thanks!


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @CrashEd, i have added your name to the list. It would actually be really interesting to get your feedback - because from what I get you are our ideal target customer (dissatisfied with what's on the market in terms of filters and looking into Reverse Osmosis). Let's see where this takes us - we still have not decided where the units are going. There has been some delays on the production side of things (as expected) and some elements are not functioning properly (also as expected). Once we get all that sorted, we will keep all of you updated.

Cheers,


----------



## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @CrashEd, i have added your name to the list. It would actually be really interesting to get your feedback - because from what I get you are our ideal target customer (dissatisfied with what's on the market in terms of filters and looking into Reverse Osmosis). Let's see where this takes us - we still have not decided where the units are going. There has been some delays on the production side of things (as expected) and some elements are not functioning properly (also as expected). Once we get all that sorted, we will keep all of you updated.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> View attachment 59864


 Thanks for adding me to the list. Happy to help out wherever I can. Great to see the units in production.


----------



## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

hi, i'm not looking to be added to the list as i'm pretty clueless on water but was hoping you could help with a few questions.

My water is very hard and i was looking at either using bottled water or the osmio. it seems there is a bottled water shortage now and my fiancé can't get it cheap from work. 

Will the Skuma soften the water?

Also why is it important to remineralise the water?

thank you


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @Resseh, sure - more than happy to answer any question you might have.

1. Sküma uses reverse osmosis to purify the water, which basically means that anything that is bigger than a molecule of water will (theoretically) be filtered out. It is one of the best technologies for softening water to a TDS of almost 0 mg/L. If you live in a hard water region, odds are that your water has a TDS above 250 mg/L. Sküma will bring that down to about 19-25 TDS. The bottled water you are used to drinking in the UK generally has a TDS of 80-150.

2. Humans are not really made for drinking pure water (0TDS) - you cannot find it nature (except if you collect rain water and drink it directly). Studies indicate than consuming only pure water is not beneficial for your health since it drains the minerals already present in your body. That being said, many people only drink pure water. Sküma remineralises to achieve a perfect balance just like bottled water - the mineral composition obtained is precise and similar to the label at the back of a water bottle (which makes it interesting for brewing coffee).

I could go on and on explaining why Sküma is better than any other water filtration system out there but I already feel like I am rambling 🙃. You can always DM me to learn more.

Cheers,

Alex


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SkumaWater said:


> The bottled water you are used to drinking in the UK generally has a TDS of 80-150.


 There's no relationship between bottled water & TDS, the bottled water I'm drinking now is 1100mg/l.

Average is more around 200-230mg/L.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@MWJB I have to disagree, there is - the higher the TDS, the "harder" the water becomes, the worse the flavour/taste is. If you look closely, the wide majority of bottled water has a TDS below 250 ppm for that exact reason

Highland Springs: 136 ppm/Volvic: 109/ Fiji: 132 etc.

What brand are you drinking with 1100?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@SkumaWater - Think @MWJB means that just saying "Bottled Water" doesn't mean the TDS or hardness will be lower than your tap water, as you demonstrated in your example, it can be anything.

For example, I could say "I really look after my coffee machine. I only use bottled water". That in itself means nothing. If I were using Evian or Buxton, my machine will be calcified in a matter of months. But if I used Tesco's Ashbeck or Waitrose Lockhills for instance, that won't be the case. All examples of bottled water.

In your chart, you say that "tap water" is 71ppm. (last line). My tap water is a lot more than that, I can assure you - more like 280ppm, depending on the time of the year. So, similar to bottled water, unless specifics are stated, there's really no correlation with TDS, in my opinion.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@MediumRoastSteam in that case I take back my comment. I thought @MWJB was mentioning that generally speaking bottled water does not have a relatively low TDS count. My statement was that generally speaking bottled water has a "lower" TDS than tap water in the UK. But then again, it depends on which area you live in and what bottled water is being referred to.

(PS: my tap water is 320 here in East London, the chart I've attached was just what I found when googling "TDS bottled water")


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@SkumaWater - Thanks for the clarification above. One of the reasons I'm very interested in your product. Knowing that even my shower gets clogged up periodically, I cannot bear what would happen inside the coffee machine.

I'm following this with a lot of interest. 👍


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

High tds doesn't mean the water will taste bad at all, and it's not correlated to calcium hardness. I prefer Evian to Ashbeck...and distilled water is technically tasteless but if you drink it you end up tasting your own mouth so it's not exactly pleasant.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@MediumRoastSteam thanks for that, the support in this forum has been insane and any feedback is positive feedback in my opinion!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@Rob1 interesting, I think my opinion comes from talking to people in general. I think ultimately with taste it comes to personal preference. Lower overall TDS has always been synonymous with better tasting water. Can we correlate "high" calcium/magnesium hardness to bad tasting water?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> High tds doesn't mean the water will taste bad at all, and it's not correlated to calcium hardness.


 Exactly. I can have distilled water, add a teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate to 1 litre of water. It will have an insanely high TDS, but no calcium hardness what so ever.


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## JohanR (May 8, 2021)

I would even go as far as saying that water that is considered "fine", such as Perrier, San Pellegrino and Ramlösa (my local one), typically has a high TDS (500-1000 mg/l).


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> @Rob1 interesting, I think my opinion comes from talking to people in general. I think ultimately with taste it comes to personal preference. Lower overall TDS has always been synonymous with better tasting water. Can we correlate "high" calcium/magnesium hardness to bad tasting water?


 Not likely imo. Not within any normal range anyway. Bad taste will probably come from a number of other things like dissolved gases, chlorine, high levels of nitrates, sodium chloride and sulphate, etc, maybe even things like iron and copper. Give somebody water high in calcium hardness and they'll probably think it tastes smooth/even creamy, Magnesium supposedly make it taste sweeter and that's my experience no idea why.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@Rob1 got it thank!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

SkumaWater said:


> What brand are you drinking with 1100?


 Badoit (tastes great to me), but I don't make coffee with it. Abroad I was drinking 3000ppm water (a bit salty).

For coffee I use softer water, alkalinity from 20-70ish mg/L (mostly around 50mg/L) as CaCO3.

Are your figures from a conductive meter, or dry residue (what the labels usually state)? I suspect conductive meters, whilst most practical, read lower. Plus there's a lot of waters out there not on your chart, like Strathmore, Buxton, Harrogate, Chase Spring, supermarket Caledonian/Perthshire, Vittel, Nestle Pure Life, Brecon Carreg.


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

We should start a contest to find the water with the highest TDS... starting with the famous Borjomi (TDS just above 3900), as follows...

Even it it weren't slightly sparkling, this water has a taste which would be noticeable when making coffee 🤣

*Composition in mg/litre*

CALCIUM 60

MAGNESIUM 50

POTASSIUM 30

SODIUM 1550

HYDROCARBONATES 3900

CHLORIDES 380

SULFATES <50

BARIUM <1.0

pH = 6.5

TDS 3,905


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

@Eiffel Waw &#8230; do they sell Borjomi in the UK? If so where, I would be curious to try it out (the Sodium content is a little scary not going to lie)

I once stuck my TDS meter in sea water (Mediterranean) and got something like 15k TDS, I think that blows all your bottled water brands out of the water (pun intended!).


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

I've seen Borjomi water in some Russian (or, better, Georgian) ethnic stores in London. Borjomi was, I understand, a premium brand in the former Soviet Union, and is thus a somewhat popular import in the diaspora... Georgia also has a reputation for interesting (but somewhat unusual for Westerners) food and especially wine... well worth a try, BTW 😉


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## goodcoffeemadcity (Jun 22, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @goodcoffeemadcity and thanks for reaching out, i have added your name to the hat 🎩
> I get you - bottled water is usually the most straightforward way of getting pure & consistent water but the obvious drawbacks are self explanatory. In terms of size, Sküma is more compact: with Osmio you are looking at a 47x20x45cm system while Sküma is 20x35x40cm. Which, to be honest is not a huge different. What is a huge difference though is in terms of user friendliness - with Sküma everything is accessible from the front, you do not need to constantly move the device on the kitchen counter to access the water tank. Both systems are also pretty similar in terms of efficiency however Osmio recirculates the waste water into the tap water tank which results in a inconsistent water composition (TDS) and shorter membrane life.
> I can already anticipate a question about price at the back of your mind. As a member of this group and if you decide to back us on crowdfunding you will have access to a 40% discount aka £179 + free UK shipping.
> 
> I will now stop rambling and let you on with your day - thanks for your interest, means a lot!


 Thanks for the info @SkumaWater, I'm curious about a few things, two questions spring to mind initially, I'm not clued up on how RO systems work but I assume some parts have to stay hygienic or be cleaned intermittently to make sure bacteria doesn't accumulate and the water the machine outputs is always safe and healthy to drink, how it this achieved with Skuma? Also given that Skuma is a new company/device, it's always difficult to know what relevant credentials, experience or background the people designing the product have, if that will translate into making a good product and why someone should take a bit of a risk and choose them against a proven company/product in the market already, in this case Osmio. I guess relating to both of these questions, does the product have to have any type of external validation or checks before you can bring it to market? Not trying to interrogate you just generally interested if you could give a bit more info on this.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @goodcoffeemadcity those are all really excellent questions to be honest. 
For your first question referring to intermediary cleaning: Sküma actually has a purging mechanism built in the device which can be used with Milton tablets (which we will supply). It is user-initiated by pressing the volume, temperature and dispensing button all at the same time. We recommend to purge the system at least once a year, but depending on your tap water quality, it can be more often. You can find more information about the logic in the image below.

And now about why trusting us over another more established company. That is the exact question we asked ourselves when we started developing Sküma back in 2019. To ensure we could bring something like Sküma to the market, we had to find a partner that has already done this before. Fortunately last year, we partnered up with Hong-Kong's largest manufacturer and supplier of reverse osmosis systems (https://www.osmosis.com.hk). Tony Ho (the company's CEO) has joined our team as an investors as well as a co-founder and his experience in developing, manufacturing, and selling reverse osmosis devices over the part 10 years is what I believe the best reason to trust us in this space.

We are not here just to make a water purifier and then start designing and selling toasters or dishwashers. Our goal is much bigger than Sküma - but to reach it, we first need to establish a strong customer base, start manufacturing and delivering as soon as possible. 📦

Hope this helps, if you have any more questions don't hesitate.

Alex


----------



## WillB (Sep 1, 2021)

Hey Alex,

Interested if Beta testing is still available - will PM you some more details.

Best,

Will


----------



## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

WillB said:


> Hey Alex,
> 
> Interested if Beta testing is still available - will PM you some more details.
> 
> ...


 Hi Alex,

I'm also still interested if you require additional beta testers. I've been playing around with different bottled water mixes recently (I'm a novice though!) and it would be interesting to see how it compares.

I also saw that the Kickstarter will be open soon?

Cheers, 
Ed


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @CrashEd, excellent I have added you to the list! 
I would actually love to hear more about your findings - we are currently thinking of developing a more "coffee" focused mineral concentrate to see how it performs against more traditional brewing waters (bottled mineral, thrid wave water etc.) in terms of flavour. We have also received many requests about a custom formulation to be used with espresso machines. So much work, yet so little time (Kickstarter launching on the 19th of Oct - 2 weeks from today!)
I will keep you updated.
Cheers to you too,

Alex


----------



## goodcoffeemadcity (Jun 22, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @goodcoffeemadcity those are all really excellent questions to be honest.
> For your first question referring to intermediary cleaning: Sküma actually has a purging mechanism built in the device which can be used with Milton tablets (which we will supply). It is user-initiated by pressing the volume, temperature and dispensing button all at the same time. We recommend to purge the system at least once a year, but depending on your tap water quality, it can be more often. You can find more information about the logic in the image below.
> 
> And now about why trusting us over another more established company. That is the exact question we asked ourselves when we started developing Sküma back in 2019. To ensure we could bring something like Sküma to the market, we had to find a partner that has already done this before. Fortunately last year, we partnered up with Hong-Kong's largest manufacturer and supplier of reverse osmosis systems (https://www.osmosis.com.hk). Tony Ho (the company's CEO) has joined our team as an investors as well as a co-founder and his experience in developing, manufacturing, and selling reverse osmosis devices over the part 10 years is what I believe the best reason to trust us in this space.
> ...


 Hi Alex, thanks for your reply and the info, interesting stuff. Regarding the self cleaning function, I assume that cleans internal pipework etc, what parts would need to be cleaned by the user, just the water tank?

The other thing I wondered was does the machine have to be certified or tested in any way by an external body to make sure it does what it says it does and that it's producing safe to drink water?

Also wondering how often will the Sküma filters need changing (obviously usage and water hardness dependant) and how much will the filters cost? Apologies if I've missed this info in the thread already. *edit : found this on your website, around 12 months and £35*


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

.Good morning@goodcoffeemadcity,

So the user would only need to clean the refill tank (where you add the tap water) as well as the plant water tank (where waste water is created) and finally the mineral tank. All tanks should be washing machine friendly but we still need to make sure to avoid any surprises. 
In terms of certification for the UK and Europe, the same directives must be followed for UKCA and CE certification. Some of these directives like the Low Voltage Directive must be assessed by a third body (if I am not mistaken). Jake at CeMarkingAssociation is here to help us on that - this is scheduled to take place early 2022 straight after tooling with the pre-production samples. In general the certification should not be an issue for us since the vast majority of the components we use are already CE certified.

You are correct about the filter. We are thinking of changing our communication strategy on that and instead of months, mention in terms of litres. You should get a good 350-500 litres out of the filter assuming 300 TDS London tap water. The good thing with RO (as I am sure you know) is that the longer you use the membrane for the better it will purify. The only annoying part is that more waste water will be produced.

Cheers,
Alex


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

Hi Alex @SkumaWater,

How are things progressing and did the crowdfunding start?

Cheers,

Ed


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @CrashEd, we have actually delayed our launch by 2 weeks as things were not on point to launch on the 19th (this partially explains my lack on interaction on this forum). I will share updates on this thread as well as the forum's main page when we get closer to launch day.

Will keep you in the loop.

Cheers,

Alex


----------



## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @CrashEd, we have actually delayed our launch by 2 weeks as things were not on point to launch on the 19th (this partially explains my lack on interaction on this forum). I will share updates on this thread as well as the forum's main page when we get closer to launch day.
> 
> Will keep you in the loop.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the update Alex.

Sorry to hear about the delay, but better to get things right rather than rush it.

Cheers, Ed


----------



## Omid (Oct 16, 2021)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @goodcoffeemadcity and thanks for reaching out, i have added your name to the hat 🎩
> I get you - bottled water is usually the most straightforward way of getting pure & consistent water but the obvious drawbacks are self explanatory. In terms of size, Sküma is more compact: with Osmio you are looking at a 47x20x45cm system while Sküma is 20x35x40cm. Which, to be honest is not a huge different. What is a huge difference though is in terms of user friendliness - with Sküma everything is accessible from the front, you do not need to constantly move the device on the kitchen counter to access the water tank. Both systems are also pretty similar in terms of efficiency however Osmio recirculates the waste water into the tap water tank which results in a inconsistent water composition (TDS) and shorter membrane life.
> I can already anticipate a question about price at the back of your mind. As a member of this group and if you decide to back us on crowdfunding you will have access to a 40% discount aka £179 + free UK shipping.
> 
> I will now stop rambling and let you on with your day - thanks for your interest, means a lot!


 Hi Alex. Is it possible to get pure water out of the Skuma ( skipping the remineralization process ) ?

Also do you have any update for your product lunch date ?

Thanks


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Omid said:


> Hi Alex. Is it possible to get pure water out of the Skuma ( skipping the remineralization process ) ?
> 
> Also do you have any update for your product lunch date ?
> 
> Thanks


 Hi @Omid, yes just keep your finger pressed on the dispensing button for 2 seconds and pure RO water will be dispensed!

We are actually announcing our launch date today or early tomorrow: We will launch on Tuesday 2nd of November- exactly 1 week from today.
If you have any questions please don't hesitate.

Oh and before I forget, I will be at this year's Manchester Coffee festival on November 6th if you or anyone on this group is interested in checking out the prototype and/or getting some free tickets (I still have 5 available).

Cheers,

Alex


----------



## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @Omid, yes just keep your finger pressed on the dispensing button for 2 seconds and pure RO water will be dispensed!
> 
> We are actually announcing our launch date today or early tomorrow: We will launch on Tuesday 2nd of November- exactly 1 week from today.
> If you have any questions please don't hesitate.
> ...


 Hi Alex, @SkumaWater

That's great news regarding the launch. It's a shame I'm not closer or Manchester around the 6th - I'd love to see one of the units in the flesh.

No you have a feel for when you might announce who the test/prototype units will go out to?

Many thanks,

Ed


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

CrashEd said:


> Hi Alex, @SkumaWater
> 
> That's great news regarding the launch. It's a shame I'm not closer or Manchester around the 6th - I'd love to see one of the units in the flesh.
> 
> ...


 Hi @CrashEd,
Yes I agree with your point - having it closer would have been ideal but some people are getting impatient (specially given we had initially scheduled to launch in Sep). 
Regarding the test units (prototypes) I will update you guys very soon (just after we launch) 🚀
Cheers,

Alex


----------



## Omid (Oct 16, 2021)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @Omid, yes just keep your finger pressed on the dispensing button for 2 seconds and pure RO water will be dispensed!
> 
> We are actually announcing our launch date today or early tomorrow: We will launch on Tuesday 2nd of November- exactly 1 week from today.
> If you have any questions please don't hesitate.
> ...


 Seems Skuma has good features . Thanks for the offer but unfortunately I'm not close to Manchester . Good luck with the lunch though .


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

SkumaWater said:


> Regarding the test units (prototypes) I will update you guys very soon (just after we launch) 🚀
> Cheers,
> 
> Alex


 Alex @SkumaWater

Ok great!


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## Jomo04 (Mar 25, 2019)

Hi Alex @SkumaWater

Apologies if you've covered this elsewhere.

I'm just wondering how consistently the remineralising solution is dosed into the RO water, and if it would it be possible to use a home made mineral concentrate in the Skuma, in place of the one supplied?


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## freemanator (Jul 13, 2021)

Excited that things are getting closer. Crossing my fingers for getting a review unit, as I am really keen to get my water sorted, so I can expand my coffee selection and making repertoire and noticeably benefit from it.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

I posted my interest on 9th August and ever since that day reading posts here I can't stop thinking of the Young Ones from 1983 or 1984 and the letter to the Bank Manager

*Rick:*
Oh, come off it, Neil! If you're going to be that sycophantic, why don't you go there now and stick your tongue straight down the back of his trousers?


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

Uncletits said:


> I'd also like to volunteer - I currently do not have an RO machine but would *love *to try one
> 
> Neil


 And if I recall you were a bit lovey-dovey at the time too 😜

Guess (almost) everyone is excited for the launch.


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Fair shout @CrashEd it was a while ago when I went over the edge though

I just hope they work as I might buy one!


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

Uncletits said:


> I just hope they work as I might buy one!


 Yeah, same. It looks like it will offer some good advantages over other options.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Jomo04 said:


> Hi Alex @SkumaWater
> 
> Apologies if you've covered this elsewhere.
> 
> I'm just wondering how consistently the remineralising solution is dosed into the RO water, and if it would it be possible to use a home made mineral concentrate in the Skuma, in place of the one supplied?


 Hi Jomo,

Yes its a great question. Basically we want for you guys to be able to experiment with your own custom formulations. Only problem is that currently the device doses 3mL of concentrate per Litre of pure water (and it is not currently adjustable). With the guys over at the Water Table Discord channel we came up with a formulation similar to the BH#4 but adapted for Sküma, which I have shared below.
It's definitely not perfect but I think its a good place to start.

In summary - yes please feel free to explore and experiment.

Cheers,

Alex


----------



## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

freemanator said:


> Excited that things are getting closer. Crossing my fingers for getting a review unit, as I am really keen to get my water sorted, so I can expand my coffee selection and making repertoire and noticeably benefit from it.


 @freemanator thanks for the support, it really means a lot to have you guys interested in what we are building. I will keep you updated with the review units!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Uncletits said:


> Fair shout @CrashEd it was a while ago when I went over the edge though
> 
> I just hope they work as I might buy one!


 We will make sure the device exceeds all your expectation! @Uncletits 
Our priority is to get something out there as soon as possible.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> Only problem is that currently the device doses 3mL of concentrate per Litre of pure water


 I don't see this as a problem, honestly. If it can be guaranteed that 3ml of concentrate is dispensed exactly (rather than a configurable amount which is not always precise, or a fixed amount which is not precise) per litre of pure water, and that you could offer different concentrate pouches of different concentrates mixes, then I think you are on the winning path, personally, and a I wouldn't hesitate to buy one providing it meets my expectations, of course.

All I want is for my espresso machine not to scale up, ever. If you then provide a concentrate which does exactly that (sodium bicarbonate, or potassium bicarbonate or a mixture of whatever doesn't scale but tastes good) and it dispenses 3ml of that to achieve a TDS of 65ppm or whatever the recommended number is to it acts as a buffer, then you've nailed it, for me at least.

if you could also change those concentrates depending on the water you want (e.g.: I could buy concentrate A, B and C) and use A usually, to drink, B to fill up my espresso machine every week and C for drinking tea, then his is perfect. But I don't know how feasible it is.

Anyway, I'm very excited to hear more about this product. So much potential.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't see this as a problem, honestly. If it can be guaranteed that 3ml of concentrate is dispensed exactly (rather than a configurable amount which is not always precise, or a fixed amount which is not precise) per litre of pure water, and that you could offer different concentrate pouches of different concentrates mixes, then I think you are on the winning path, personally, and a I wouldn't hesitate to buy one providing it meets my expectations, of course.
> 
> All I want is for my espresso machine not to scale up, ever. If you then provide a concentrate which does exactly that (sodium bicarbonate, or potassium bicarbonate or a mixture of whatever doesn't scale but tastes good) and it dispenses 3ml of that to achieve a TDS of 65ppm or whatever the recommended number is to it acts as a buffer, then you've nailed it, for me at least.
> 
> ...


 Those are all really good points! Thanks for that 🙌

Basically 3mL is equivalent to a total of 60 drops (0.05mL per drop). We manage to get the 60 drops spread equally over the dispensing period based on the volume you have selected - i.e you select 250mL then the 15 drops will be dispensed accordingly to the number of revolutions of the peristaltic pump (variable revolutions of the pump with fixed dispensing times). We still need to work on adjusting the numbers but we do deliver a very accurate result.

Yes, interchangeable concentrates is definitely the right way to go with this! Hopefully you guys can help us test out new concentrates and refine the formulations! 📝


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hey guys,
Just a quick update on our launch (I will also post this update on the promotions section of the forum).



Kickstarter page is done and we are waiting on their review ✅


Tentative launch date is the *2nd of November* - this Tuesday at 17:00 UK time.


This date is *not* yet 100% sure since we are waiting on Kickstarter to approve our project - they are being very slow.


The way Kickstarter works is that we cannot make a special hidden reward for you guys to get the 40% discount reward and is on a first come first served basis. So ideally all of you looking to back our project would need to be quick since we have only allocated a maximum of 50 rewards at that price.
In the case where some of you cannot make it on time, you can contact me directly (here/email/phone) and I can increase that amount to allow you all to benefit from that price.
Hope this helps and thank you for your support since the beginning.
Cheers,

Alex


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@SkumaWater - That's great news. What's your plan with the test units? Will you send those during the campaign? For me, the tests units (and the feedback from them from prospective users) are a critical step. It would give me confidence that I'm buying a product I really want and works as I want it, and been used by someone totally independent and with no bias.

The great example of this all was the Niche Zero. It was sent to Dave for review, Dave did his due diligence, explained the product in depth and great detail, and the rest is history.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @SkumaWater - That's great news. What's your plan with the test units? Will you send those during the campaign? For me, the tests units (and the feedback from them from prospective users) are a critical step. It would give me confidence that I'm buying a product I really want and works as I want it, and been used by someone totally independent and with no bias.
> 
> The great example of this all was the Niche Zero. It was sent to Dave for review, Dave did his due diligence, explained the product in depth and great detail, and the rest is history.


 Hello!
Yes that's a great point, we are currently really focused on the launch day but I have planned to have at least 1 units sent out to the volunteers from this group. 
I will definitely follow-up with this during the campaign so that you can all benefit from the feedback, which will hopefully be posted on this forum. 
Cheers,
Alex


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @SkumaWater - That's great news. What's your plan with the test units? Will you send those during the campaign? For me, the tests units (and the feedback from them from prospective users) are a critical step. It would give me confidence that I'm buying a product I really want and works as I want it, and been used by someone totally independent and with no bias.
> 
> The great example of this all was the Niche Zero. It was sent to Dave for review, Dave did his due diligence, explained the product in depth and great detail, and the rest is history.


 I'm in the same boat - would be good to know a bit more before committing.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

CrashEd said:


> I'm in the same boat - would be good to know a bit more before committing.


 Perfectly understandable Ed, will keep you all updated. 
Thanks,

Alex


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@SkumaWater so my mail arrived at 17.02 offering me access to my discount

Unfortunately those had all gone!

And I also had this message so thought I didn't need to worry

"Perfect Neil, I will personally remind you before launch to make sure you get the 40% discount offer. 🙌
Cheers,
AYM"

Unfortunately it was never sent!

So my money is going elsewhere 😎


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi Neil, @Uncletits
Really sorry for that but your place is reserved.
There is a secret perk for you guys here at the forum that grants you access to the £179 discount.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/2714426/x/27977327?secret_perk_token=65344180

I had so many people to remind and that is the reason why I forgot to send you a reminder. Please accept my apologies.
Either way, thanks for your interest.

Alex


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I got mine. Cheers Alex.

Looks like it's going well - congratulations


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

dutchy101 said:


> I got mine. Cheers Alex.
> 
> Looks like it's going well - congratulations


 Excellent, thank you for your support - it means a lot!


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@SkumaWaterJune shipping too?


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Uncletits said:


> @SkumaWaterJune shipping too?


 Yes it is!


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

SkumaWater said:


> Yes it is!


 Sorry I'm too old to wait until then for good water

Good luck though


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Uncletits said:


> Sorry I'm too old to wait until then for good water
> 
> Good luck though


 No problem, thanks you for your interest I appreciate it!
Have a good evening!


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## CafeColando (Apr 5, 2021)

I've got mine too. Thanks Alex. A great perk for the forum. Looks to be going well. Now the wait begins!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

CafeColando said:


> I've got mine too. Thanks Alex. A great perk for the forum. Looks to be going well. Now the wait begins!


 Thank you very much @CafeColando!
With this perk, we really wanted to thank you all for your contribution in our project. 
We will keep you all updated with everything going on with the project and you have my word that you will get your units!
Have a good evening,

Alex


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@SkumaWater did anyone ever get one to test? Interested to hear what they are like?


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi @Uncletits,
We have not yet proceeded to send the samples. Based on how the devices arrived to both Lance Hedrick (YouTuber) and Kyle Rowsell (also YouTuber) we actually decided not to send you guys our current prototypes - they arrive mostly smashed during shipping (as you can see from the green tape here

__
http://instagr.am/p/CWBTC3IDtTj/
). The best will be to send 2 or 3 pre-production samples once the tooling is done. This will be much closer to the final version (and will come in one piece). Your feedback will then be much more valuable than now. 
Have a good weekend everyone. 
Cheers,

Alex


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

SkumaWater said:


> Hi @Uncletits,
> We have not yet proceeded to send the samples. Based on how the devices arrived to both Lance Hedrick (YouTuber) and Kyle Rowsell (also YouTuber) we actually decided not to send you guys our current prototypes - they arrive mostly smashed during shipping (as you can see from the green tape here
> 
> __
> ...


 @SkumaWater were they able to do their reviews despite the damage?


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

CrashEd said:


> @SkumaWater were they able to do their reviews despite the damage?


 So I actually went on a zoom call for like 2h with Lance and we managed to fix the unit. He then called me and gave me his review (he also posted it on Kyle's instagram post). Kyle's review is on instagram and is on the link I sent in my previous comment. They are overall very positive, the main problems were obviously the fact that the system is 3D printed and very fragile. They also talked about the mineral composition we had sent with the system (our 001 formulation for hydration) and said that it did not work well with coffee - which is why we have made a special formulation only for coffee (our 002 formulation for coffee). We gave them as samples during the Manchester coffee festival and we got good feedback on them but obviously still needs some tweaking.
Is there anyone on this thread who has got distilled water laying around and would like to try our 002 concentrate? I have attached the formulation below for anyone who is curious.
Have a good Sunday!
Cheers,

Alex


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@MediumRoastSteam Distiller King


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@SkumaWater - I do have a distiller, and would be happy to try your formulation. All I'm not sure is the r magnesium sulphate and whether that's boiler friendly or not. If anyone can confirm this, I'd be happy to give it a go. I know @Rob1 also has a distiller.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @SkumaWater - I do have a distiller, and would be happy to try your formulation. All I'm not sure is the r magnesium sulphate and whether that's boiler friendly or not. If anyone can confirm this, I'd be happy to give it a go. I know @Rob1 also has a distiller.


 Sulphate is really high, above the taste threshold iirc. If not, definitely above the 30mg/l limit recommended by LM for safety. I stopped using magnesium sulphate because I hated the taste. Not sure about stainless steel but fairly certain sulphate is a corrosion concern in brass/copper boilers due to some reaction involving bacteria and metabolites.... The main thing re taste is alkalinity is on the low side. Will be surprised if you don't see magnesium carbonate depositing at the bottom of the bottle of concentrate over time. Wouldn't use it in an espresso machine, maybe brewed but would much prefer sulphates to be removed and alkalinity to be around 40mg/l...but of course then you'd see scaling in your service boiler because of the hardness being what it is.


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## Capo29 (Oct 21, 2021)

So I had a Skuma early bird on indiegogo, but have just cancelled it. Reason being I got a zerowater jug and the tds meter shows 30 so I think reverse osmosis is overkill...

Am I wrong cancelling? Will to do anything the zero won't? I think with such a low reading at the moment the zero filters will last a long time.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

It's really not the same thing at all. The zero jug won't remineralise your water for you. Also I'm fairly certain it's supposed to be 0 TDS too. TDS isn't a good measure of water for coffee or determining if the water is boiler safe though.


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## Capo29 (Oct 21, 2021)

I've been adding 0.1g bicarbonate per litre to the water, it's mostly for espresso.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @SkumaWater - I do have a distiller, and would be happy to try your formulation.


 Given The advice with regards to magnesium sulphates, It's best if I don't try it as I exclusively drink espresso out of an espresso machine with two boilers.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> Sulphate is really high, above the taste threshold iirc. If not, definitely above the 30mg/l limit recommended by LM for safety. I stopped using magnesium sulphate because I hated the taste. Not sure about stainless steel but fairly certain sulphate is a corrosion concern in brass/copper boilers due to some reaction involving bacteria and metabolites.... The main thing re taste is alkalinity is on the low side. Will be surprised if you don't see magnesium carbonate depositing at the bottom of the bottle of concentrate over time. Wouldn't use it in an espresso machine, maybe brewed but would much prefer sulphates to be removed and alkalinity to be around 40mg/l...but of course then you'd see scaling in your service boiler because of the hardness being what it is.


 Great points @Rob1,
The reason for the slightly lower alkalinity is because RO will still leave your water with some slightly alkalinity after processing, we estimate it to be around 10ppm but we need to have some analysis done to the water to confirm this assumption.
For the Sulphate, yes I agree it is pretty high - another alternative would be to replace magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt) with magnesium chloride (I believe more similar to Third Wave Water's composition). Do you think it is a safer move?


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Capo29 said:


> So I had a Skuma early bird on indiegogo, but have just cancelled it. Reason being I got a zerowater jug and the tds meter shows 30 so I think reverse osmosis is overkill...
> 
> Am I wrong cancelling? Will to do anything the zero won't? I think with such a low reading at the moment the zero filters will last a long time.


 Hi @Capo29,
Thanks for your early support!
As Rob said, it is not the same thing but I would say it really depends on what you are looking for. If you are just looking to reduce the overall hardness of your water for general purpose then a Zero is just fine. It is important to keep in mind that although the Zero is great for reducing TDS, it will not purify your water no where near what an RO system can such as VOCs, bacteria, virus & FLUORIDE (which is a big one right now). And obviously that's not even talking about the remineralisation aspect of Sküma which give you control on the specific composition of your water.

TDS is actually a very poor measure of a water's quality for coffee - I experienced it first hand with Peter and Nico from Kaffeine London. Both the TDS of our water and theirs was fairly similar - but the results were night and day!

The results were the following:

- *Sküma Water composition:*
60ppm as GH (General hardness as Mg) & 30ppm as KH (Carbonate hardness) & overall TDS 122ppm

- *Kaffeine water composition:*
89ppm as GH (General hardness as Mg) & 52.4ppm as KH (Carbonate hardness) & overall TDS 95ppm as source but increases to about 110ppm after boiler.

- The overall TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) of both waters is pretty similar but the flavour profile was very different - highlighting once again the greater importance of the mineral composition of the water rather than the overall TDS count.

- Cup with Sküma Water was much more "*tangy*" and *sharp* in flavour than the cup with normal Kaffeine-made water.


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## Koli (Nov 21, 2020)

Hey Alex ,

Do you guys still have samples or potentially damaged units for testing? I would be happy to try and fix it haha.

Kind regards,
Kolin


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

Koli said:


> Hey Alex ,
> 
> Do you guys still have samples or potentially damaged units for testing? I would be happy to try and fix it haha.
> 
> ...


 Same here. I also have a good 3D printer too!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

CrashEd said:


> Same here. I also have a good 3D printer too!


 @CrashEd

@Koli

That's actually a good idea haha! Any of you is based in London or relatively near?


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## CrashEd (Oct 31, 2016)

SkumaWater said:


> @CrashEd
> 
> @Koli
> 
> That's actually a good idea haha! Any of you is based in London or relatively near?


 Sadly not - I'm in Derby, Midlands.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

SkumaWater said:


> Great points @Rob1,
> The reason for the slightly lower alkalinity is because RO will still leave your water with some slightly alkalinity after processing, we estimate it to be around 10ppm but we need to have some analysis done to the water to confirm this assumption.
> For the Sulphate, yes I agree it is pretty high - another alternative would be to replace magnesium sulphate (Epsom salt) with magnesium chloride (I believe more similar to Third Wave Water's composition). Do you think it is a safer move?


 ahhhh I forgot RO isn't totally pure. What is left behind will vary based on the water that is put into it too I guess so there wil be inconsistency there anyway. I don't think chlorides are safer at all, definitely not for the steel boilers that are becoming common.

You can use Magnesium carbonate or hydroxide and dissolve it in pure carbonated water. You'd need to balance the CO2 with the Magnesium hydroxide or carbonate or just let it go flat if there's an excess, that way you don't get anything you don't actually want in the water.


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## Koli (Nov 21, 2020)

SkumaWater said:


> @CrashEd
> 
> @Koli
> 
> That's actually a good idea haha! Any of you is based in London or relatively near?


 Edinburgh at the moment. Will be back to London this January


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Koli said:


> Edinburgh at the moment. Will be back to London this January


 Excellent, it would be great if you could reach out to me again once you are back.
Have a good weekend,

Alex


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Keep us up to date with this, will be interested in how it performs in the real world.


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hey everyone,
Just a quick update - we are closing the crowdfunding campaign in less than 24h now and I wanted to thank all of you for your support 🎉
If there is anyone that is interested in supporting our project but are on a budget, we have introduced an *instalment plan starting at £76* (3 payments) - https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/skuma-electrolyte-enhanced-water-from-home#/

Regarding the samples to be sent, we are wrapping up some modifications to the design and we should soon be ready! Will keep you all updated over here.
Take care,

Alex


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

@SkumaWater hey Alex, I've just backed the project on Indiegogo and have a couple of questions based off what I could read so far on thread:

Your comparison with the Kaffeine coffee shop's water - I don't appreciate tangy flavours in my coffee and wondered if/assumed you are changing the mineral composition to address this and have a smoother drink outcome?

How long will the machine take to dispense enough water for a near-full 2L espresso machine water tank refill?

Is the machine loud in operation? I guess a comparison to everyday household items would be useful if possible!

Does the machine idle at low power when not in active use?

Cheers!


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## SkumaWater (Aug 7, 2021)

Hi Pandabear,
First of all thank you for backing us! Here are the answers to your questions:



The Kaffeine coffee shop taste test was just a trial using their own speciality coffee and our comment on the "tangy" flavour I mentioned was mostly what I perceived but not everyone agreed for example Nico (barista there) and Peter (owner). Our formulation is very similar to the Barista Hustle #4 but just slightly reduced to take into account the RO process. We will obviously be doing some taste tests to make sure our formulation works with "almost" all coffees and brewing methods. I could send you a bottle for you to test if you are interested (just DM me your address).


The dispensing itself only takes a couple of seconds since it is dispensed directly from an intermediary 1.8L tank located inside the Sküma. This tank is automatically refilled each time water it taken from it. For your first utilisation, it will take about 6-10 minutes to refill the intermediary tank.


The sound generated when filtering is slightly louder than a fridge's hissing.


Sküma will automatically enter its rest mode after 2min of idle time, which only keeps its main LED on.


I hope these answers help you!
Cheers,

Alex


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