# Why do they do it.....?!



## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

New cafe opened in my small town, already awash with chains and independents, the majority of which don't know what coffee is. Recently opened place is in a main street in the centre with a busy and successful Greek run café six doors down. New place all sparkling clean and newly decorated, but the counter is the only thing on the ground floor with the actual seating area upstairs, so you can't see anything really from the outside. Advertises good coffee and teas and quality food. Coffee menu lists flat white, which most places here don't do. Curious, I went in and ordered a flat white and waited upstairs, I was the only customer at 11.15 on a Tuesday! Said flat white was brought in a wide mouth 10oz cup full of scalding milk with half an inch of hard dry big bubbly foam sitting on top (Matey bubble bath style! ). Having taken a sip gingerly I took it back downstairs, paid my £2.45 (YES!) and said I couldn't drink it as it wasn't what I expected. They said that this was what the trainer had shown them. No point in taking it further so I left.

Why do such clueless folk invest time and money in something they patently know nothing about? No wonder so many cafes fail every year. How is it that commercial coffee machine lease companies can survive training people so ineptly? No wonder the average Joe thinks S***bucks is coffee.

Sorry, rant over, but why oh why???

I think I'll start my own Formula 1 racing team, since I know f*** all about it!!

Outside big cities and towns there's a long, long way to go sadly.

Good night and time for4 my tablet! ;-)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Probably, won't last six months, Ian. Should have asked for a refund too.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

That's a real shame as you have a decent roaster on the doorstep too.

Were they being supplied by a UK roaster or buying in cheap beans from abroad?


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Well they offered me a refund but I felt that they had served what I thought I'd ordered, and I did criticise what they served! But still. ?..


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I ordered a Flat White from a new place close to work recently.

I know the roaster, and also that they trained a number of staff - hence I was willing to try the coffee. New machine, nicely roasted beans, all the right signs were there.

Ordered a Flat White and then got distracted with my phone until I was asked "would you like hot or cold milk with that?"

Gobsmacked, I asked the barista what she was making and if she was speaking to me (the only customer in the shop)

Turns out she was making me an Americano as she didn't know how to make a Flat White.

I took the refund and advised the roaster immediately so that they can follow up right away.

Some of my work colleagues have had similar experiences.

I have no doubt they have lost a large number of customers as a result of their attitude.

Such a shame as they are across the road from a busy coffeeshop and if they had a decent offering would easily take a large chunk of their trade.


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## wmoore (Dec 19, 2012)

It seems that a number of cafe's can't make a flat white correctly. It should be no bigger than a 6oz cup. And milk at the correct temperature please.

Maybe some places should just call their coffee, Black or milky coffee small medium and large.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Isn't Costa's something like 12oz? I remember someone going in once and ordering a 'large (Massimo) Flat White'. The guy served her one without comment*.

* The guy was one of hose that knew exactly how to make coffee properly so I don't blame him for serving one, at the end of the day, in chains, the attitude is going to be that 'the customer is always right'


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## dogday38 (Feb 15, 2012)

I have to agree Ian, I recently discovered a new coffee shop in a village close to me, a place where they had obviously spent a lot on industrial chic and decent machinery. Where I live decent coffee is very hard to find so semi optimistic ordered what turned out to be a scorching hot tasteless cup of something parading as a flat white. Chatting to the folk it turns out they even go to the trouble of roasting there own beans, but despite not being open long the people serving were not the owners and had left their mates to run the place for the weekend. I don't have a problem with that but it might have been an idea to show them how to make coffee before they did, if indeed they know how to do it themselves. Ill never know because I can't bring myself to go back which is why I think it is such a shame. When a huge investment is made financially and I imagine psychologically it can crumble if you take your eyes of the prize. Im sure there are enough buggies in this village to for the shop to survive without my custom but I think most of my frustration comes from desperately wanting to get something off the ground myself, and the prize for me (naively I know) would not be profit centred but delivering something I could be proud of.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Why.....?The vast majority of people's expectations of what a coffee, flat white or latte is and tastes like is very different to forum members.... Most people associated value for money with big . Quantity not quality ....


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Glenn said:


> That's a real shame as you have a decent roaster on the doorstep too.
> 
> Were they being supplied by a UK roaster or buying in cheap beans from abroad?


Didn't stay long enough to find out! Didn't want a slap.... but a smart new 2 group commercial machine and a SJ type of grinder. Could barely taste the coffee which was lost in the scalding milk. A real shame in a town with its own award winning roaster. Apart from a couple of pubs with B2C machines, he only has two outlets here in town, only one of which knows what it's doing.....as it keeps its staff regularly up to speed with ongoing training.

In a small town like this which is growing, with the right demographic and social profile, there are ever more eateries and cafés, many of which are virtually empty early on in the week. Can they all survive on busy times Thursday to Sunday?

Clearly this place doesn't stand a chance.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

The reason why milk is boiling hot is quite often because that's what people want ! madness I know, but if you serve it at the right temps, it's pretty much ready to drink straight away, that's of course not good enough as it spoils the long conversation you're just about to have with your girlmates about what shopping you did on the weekend and how like great like the kardashians were last night









Regards,

T.


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

You are indeed correct @dsc! I have heard of places where they serve flat whites at the correct temperature and refuse to overheat it. If a customer complains that it's not hot enough, they take it back and run the cup handle under the hot water wand, and meet with approval when they give the customer the same coffee back!

It's all psychological!


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

As Mrboots said before, it's also about quantity not quality. I've heard numerous stories from people who'd been to Italy and complained that the coffees are so tiny, yet expensive (true if you sit down). Just shows that people want a lot for not a lot and don't really care about what's in the cup.

Regards,

T.


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## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

I work with SME's and it's amazing how many people start or are running businesses yet pay little of no attention to how well they deliver their product and service. It's not just coffee shops. I'm sure we've had bad experiences with may different businesses.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

IanP said:


> New cafe opened in my small town, already awash with chains and independents, the majority of which don't know what coffee is. Recently opened place is in a main street in the centre with a busy and successful Greek run café six doors down. New place all sparkling clean and newly decorated, but the counter is the only thing on the ground floor with the actual seating area upstairs, so you can't see anything really from the outside. Advertises good coffee and teas and quality food. Coffee menu lists flat white, which most places here don't do. Curious, I went in and ordered a flat white and waited upstairs, I was the only customer at 11.15 on a Tuesday! Said flat white was brought in a wide mouth 10oz cup full of scalding milk with half an inch of hard dry big bubbly foam sitting on top (Matey bubble bath style! ). Having taken a sip gingerly I took it back downstairs, paid my £2.45 (YES!) and said I couldn't drink it as it wasn't what I expected. They said that this was what the trainer had shown them. No point in taking it further so I left.
> 
> Why do such clueless folk invest time and money in something they patently know nothing about? No wonder so many cafes fail every year. How is it that commercial coffee machine lease companies can survive training people so ineptly? No wonder the average Joe thinks S***bucks is coffee.
> 
> ...


This is exactly the sort of situation I was talking about in another thread yesterday. It really hacks me off because people who leave a chain to go to a place like this then assume that all independent coffee shops are that bad and won't give the really good one's a whirl.

It just doesn't make sense from the proprietor's point of view either. To take a chance on trying to succeed with your own business of any sort takes so much bottle and requires so much investment that it's madness to then not get something as basic as serving the correct drinks at the correct temp's right.

This is something all of us on this forum can make a decent stab at, on domestic equipment with no formal training. It's completely bonkers.


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