# Naked PF channeling



## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hi Sage Users

I have been trying to get my naked PF working however I am experiencing lots of channeling in my pours, I am currently on the factory settings, 7 secs preinfusion @ 60%. Has anyone tried anything different with better results, using a superjolly to grind.

Thanks

Tom


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

The channelling is going to be down to your preparation in the pf rather than the machine.

Super jolly should take care of any clumping, so it is probably the distribution in the pf and/or how level you are tamping.

maybe try using a Tala flour sifter, one of whiteyj's pf funnels and a soft brush.

1) thwack into a small pot of some kind

2) attach pf funnel to pf and sit tala on top of it (it should be a good fit)

3) tip ground coffee into Tala and sift into Pf

4) you should be left with a nice mound of coffee that readily levels out with a couple of little shimmys

5) use soft brush to get as level a distribution as possible (pretty quick and easy with a bit of practice)

6) tamp - making sure you retain a level surface.

- make sure shower screen is clean and water is running fairly evenly across it without the pf in place.

Nothing wrong with the settings that you are using, although you could try using a long low-pressure pour (e.g. set pre-infusion to 60s @ 68% - aiming for ~600kPa). This can give a more controlled pour.

I call the above "the Gary **** method" 'cos it was him what showed it to me!

Sounds like a lot of faff - but actually pretty quick, and if you have to make lots of drinks at a time then you can always skip some steps for those that won't notice anyway or are drowning it in milk.

Good luck


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It will more than likely be the way the coffee sits in the basket. A vid of prep and extraction would help .

Also what basket? What tamper ? Fresh coffee ?


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Thanks guys I'll do a vid, yeah fresh Rave beans, I'll try the steps above before I do the vid.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hi guys,

Let me know what you think of the prep vid and channeling vid. Comments much appreciated.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

That's a doughnut. This is caused by one of two things:

- More coffee in the basket centre than at the edges when you tamp or

- too much coffee so your puck hits your shower screen when it expands

Check the second point but I'm betting it's the first.

It looks like the coffeecatcha gadget requires you to tilt your PF when you take it out from the grinder, and that this is shunting the coffee to one side of the basket. Then you're doing a lot of tapping and rapping to move it about a bit, plus a bit of poking to break up clumps. I suspect the repeated taps to the side of the basket, and the raps are compressing the coffee unevenly.

I'd lose the catcha gadget and just hold the PF to get a pile in the centre of the basket. Then a couple (two only) of gentle taps to the side of the PF to start to level the pile, then a stockfleth manouevre (or something like a lolly stick horizontally across the basket) to move the coffee around to make sure it's leveled right up to the basket edge. Then, if you must, a single rap on the bench before tamping but this can cause cracks.

If this doesn't work then use the WDT (straightened paperclip on a lolly stick) to stir the grounds to make sure they are an even depth and density right across the basket. Try this without any tapping.

The key with doughnuts is getting the coffee the same depth and density right up to the edge of the basket, then being gentle enough to get a good seal to the basket sides.

Let us know how you get on.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Obnic said:


> That's a doughnut. This is caused by one of two things:
> 
> - More coffee in the basket centre than at the edges when you tamp or
> 
> ...


Some good tips there thanks, will have a go this weekend.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

That's quite a lot of tapping. Each time you do that the coffee will compress on the far side (bit like concussion). If you do it all around the you end up with a compressed ring of coffee, so when you add water under pressure the easiest route is between the coffee and the side of the basket, hence the doughnut effect.

Try not to tap but just shimmy.

I couldn't quite tell as your arm was blocking the view, but it looked like you tapped the pf with the tamper after the first tamp. Not a good idea as it can break the seal between coffee and basket.

I think the Tala mini might help your prep. Nice fluffy mound in the middle of the pf that collapses very easily. Then just a matter of getting a nice level surface.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

NickdeBug said:


> That's quite a lot of tapping. Each time you do that the coffee will compress on the far side (bit like concussion). If you do it all around the you end up with a compressed ring of coffee, so when you add water under pressure the easiest route is between the coffee and the side of the basket, hence the doughnut effect.
> 
> Try not to tap but just shimmy.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the hints, is this the kind of thing you're suggesting?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/301977082311?lpid=122&chn=ps&adgroupid=36165537022&rlsatarget=pla-278516763309&adtype=pla&poi=&googleloc=1006912&device=m&campaignid=738474636&crdt=0&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1673%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D172733225676_563391%2526itemid%253D301977082311%2526targetid%253D278516763309%2526device%253Dm%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253a%25252f%25252fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252fitm%25252flike%25252f301977082311%25253flpid%25253d122%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D1006912%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D738474636%2526adgroupid%253D36165537022%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-278516763309%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQiA_KvEBRCtzNil4-KR-LIBEiQAmgekFxUrNVF1salWFvWhIf8wp4n3AuYhw9eP3jW-2GGL7r8aAhfD8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1159578774658


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

This: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Sifters/Tala-Originals-Mini-Stainless-Steel-Mesh-Cream/B00K0LZM6G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1485544408&sr=8-3&keywords=mini+flour+sifter


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## destiny (Jun 4, 2015)

How good of a fit is you tamper to the basket? I have a bit of clearance and found that have to move about towards the edges to get good even extraction, as otherwise I get similar type of pour.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

destiny said:


> How good of a fit is you tamper to the basket? I have a bit of clearance and found that have to move about towards the edges to get good even extraction, as otherwise I get similar type of pour.


Tamper is a decent fit, torr goldfinger, probably just got into a bad habit with the tapping not realising what I was actually doing.


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## Essewissa (Jan 27, 2017)

Check opv settings in Gaggia Classic. If it is standard 14bar then you will have channeling no matter what you do. If it's possible set the opv on the 10bar

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3859-Adjusting-the-OPV-(over-Pressure-Valve)-Gaggia-Classic


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Single dosing . losing battle IMO


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## Essewissa (Jan 27, 2017)

garydyke1 said:


> Single dosing . losing battle IMO


yep, mission impossible,


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Single dosing . losing battle IMO


What's the alternative Gary?


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## Hal.E.Lujah (Aug 19, 2014)

Essewissa said:


> Check opv settings in Gaggia Classic. If it is standard 14bar then you will have channeling no matter what you do. If it's possible set the opv on the 10bar
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3859-Adjusting-the-OPV-(over-Pressure-Valve)-Gaggia-Classic


I'd advise against getting into changing settings like that (If it's possible on Sage, I wouldn't know) as from the look of the video it's not a channel from pressure blasting through the coffee, simply from bad distribution of the grind in the portafilter.

This is a problem that can usually be solved by dosing higher and grinding coarser.

It looked like you prepared it properly, so you shouldn't be getting this as often as you are. The only other thing worth checking is that your tamper is the correct size and reaches the edges? If it's even a bit too small it could be leaving the edges less dense than the rest.


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## Essewissa (Jan 27, 2017)

Make espresso with npf on 10bar and 14bar







, if this is standard Gaggia Classic then their is 14bar, this 14bar pressure and single basket means trouble . Good luck with distribution, wdt etc


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Despite OP's signature I think that he is running a Sage machine, not a Gaggia Classic (this is the Sage sub-forum!)


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd agree with what others have said already. I think you're hitting it too much / too hard (I used to do the same).

Try and get it into as much as a mound as possible, if it uneven give it a few taps to the lowest point.

As a sanity check to rule out the grinder or the machine it's worth trying WDT.


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Ran another few this morning using paper clip, less tapping and banging along with slightly reduced pressure. Was much better yet not perfect. Also had a larger basket with the same 18g dose. I like to look of the flour sifter ideal and will also try dosing up a gram or two see where that takes me. Thanks for the comments guys.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

I think the advice is down dose... i.e. In an 18gr basket then u only add 17gr of coffee... this then means there is loads of 'headroom' for the shot to expand when the water is added...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

smidster09 said:


> What's the alternative Gary?


Fill the hopper with beans and use the the grinder like its designed to be used.

You get a more consistent grind profile and less channelling


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

garydyke1 said:



> Fill the hopper with beans and use the the grinder like its designed to be used.
> 
> You get a more consistent grind profile and less channelling


Sounds far too simple to me


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

smidster09 said:


> Sounds far too simple to me


If you prefer a little complexity and fewer beans on show, there's always the option of fitting a borosilicate or acrylic tube in the grinder neck and using a 1kg weight on top of your beans.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=6813&share_tid=22228&share_pid=288553&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowpost%2Ephp%3Fp%3D288553&share_type=t


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

smidster09 said:


> Sounds far too simple to me


Not really . so long as there is a reasonable amount in the hopper you'll have one continuous consistent particle distribution , where now there is 1)take-up grind 2) middle portion 3) pop corning . Bet you any money you will have to grind coarser to maintain the same flow rate which means less clumps and a more evenly saturated bed of coffee.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Gary is completely right here, unfortunately we are obsessed with single dosing and wasting coffee. There are only a few grinder that single dose very very well and they are very very expensive. Pretty much all grinders work better with weight if beans, which will give a more consistent grind quality. Single dose if you will but it comes at a cost.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

My Experience of this :

Mazzer Mini E single dosing = espresso was a pain the ass

Royal single dosing = espresso was a pain in the ass but tasted quite a bit better

Royal with a full hopper = espresso tasted flipping amazing but there was a fair bit of wastage given my 2-3 drinks a day

EK single dosing (after a shaky start) = ahhhh thats more like it


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## smidster09 (Feb 19, 2014)

Hmmm interesting! I will certainly try and get hold of a tube hopper and go from there.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sadly I have to agree with Gary and Coffeechap. Bean weight does make a big difference.

However if you do single dose I have found that you can improve the consistency of your shot with something like an Dobboco / OCD distribution tool.


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