# Problem with HasBean CostaRica Finca de Licho



## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Hi

i has problem with CostaRica Finca de Licho

no matter what I tried the result is so sour

I think I am going to send it back to HasBean for them to examine

Bean roasted: 29 May 2015


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Can you tell us what you have tried (weights in/out & grind settings)?

This was an IMM recently, obviously a different batch but the IMM wasn't obviously under developed.

Got a French press? Are you in a soft water area?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Have you spoken to HB about your issue prior to posting on the forum ([email protected]) ?

The picture of bag and not the beans doesn't really reveal much.

How are you brewing it?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I remember having this last year and not really being into it.

My advice would be to contact HB about brewing methods - for the most part they know their stuff and can give good advice.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Have you spoken to HB about your issue prior to posting on the forum ([email protected]) ?
> 
> The picture of bag and not the beans doesn't really reveal much.
> 
> How are you brewing it?


Badly?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Badly?


It can be pretty hard to predict how one HB bean will extract based on how another did....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I get my JKs mixed up on here, are you doing this on the EK? In/out/times?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> It can be pretty hard to predict how one HB bean will extract based on how another did....


Eh?


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

La Pavoni pre-Millenium

basket : Elektra double ( equal to triple LaPavoni or eslwhere)

The bean is so heavy that 17.5g- 18g still not filling full the basket

Brewing:

what ever I tried: 16g, 16.5g, 17g, 18g

- short pull ( 32second), long pull 69second

-Tighten the grinder a bit more, pull very hard, very long time= still sour

-Flush the group head, the group head temp reach to 99.3C = still sour

- Fine grind, light tamp ( some very fine grind , still be stroked)

- croaser a bit , more tamp

- waiting for 3-5 days after 29May, now 10days after roasting ( still sour)

...........

whatever I tried, I Nearly finish the 250g bag. Now only 63g left

whoever want to try, I could send the left to you


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Try a long PI and multiple pumps.

You need to measure your output as well as your input - what are you getting in the cup?

The LP generally pulls on the ristretto side, so one pull might not be enough.

I'm not sure about ultra light roasts, but with medium I usually get 1:1 with a single pull on my post 2000.

The piston chamber is the same size, just the basket is bigger.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aaah...it's difficult to run through all the permutations of your changes & build a picture of what's going on.

Going for bigger basket & doses with a limited brew water supply, may be working against you (you don't mention output g).

Grab a French press, brew at 52-56g/l, fill 1 min of boil (or preheat an insulted press), NSEW stir once at fill & skim & start tasting when it gets to 55-60C. Enjoy what's left, at least, in a drink of some sort.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I would say precision extraction on a LP is not going to happen and you need a bean that will extract quite willingly.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyle548 said:


> I'm not sure about ultra light roasts,


This is a medium roast


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

JK009 said:


> whoever want to try, I could send the left to you


Send it back to the roastery. We will refund you and cup it.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

The base of that puck looks like there is uneven extraction based on the different patches of colour. This is likely the cause of the sourness


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Send it back to the roastery. We will refund you and cup it.


Never realised you were with HB.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> This is a medium roast


It's firmly medium too


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

About La Pavoni technique :

Trying a lot method:

- Familiar with mode: 2 switch mode( 1978), pressure-stat ( 1999)

- Basic : fresh bean, temp surf, tamp, dose, grind

- a bit more research: pre-infusion, long pull-short pull, squishy pull, timing, Fellini move, false pressure, spongy pull problem, second shot, multi shots, single, double basket, ramekin of cold water, cooling group head, thermometer probe adding, John Dalton's law about temp partial pressure....

- raising the handle until steam and a bit of water was emitted, lowered it just enough to stop the flow, put on the portafilter with the loaded basket. - run enough hot water thru the group to fill my cup

- wait between three and four minutes after the pressurestat light goes out after making the bleed through the steam wand and the group bleed by raising the handle. For a long time now I also put the filter basket in the portafilter, raised the group handle until a bit of water and steam come out, lowered it just enough to stop, put on the portafilter and pulled the shot

I gave up HasBean Finca de Licho


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> I would say precision extraction on a LP is not going to happen and you need a bean that will extract quite willingly.


I think it is extracting willingly to precisely the wrong extraction?


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Send it back to the roastery. We will refund you and cup it.


Hi

Thanks for your advice

Trying to find the receipt to see the return address. It must be some where in my shop

If you want to try it , please let me know, I will send it to you

If the result is sour, I will ask for another bean or a refund... Or whatever.

If your shooting result is good or acceptable, I will spend time learning more. That is quite fair for HasBean


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

JK009 said:


> About La Pavoni technique :
> 
> Trying a lot method:
> 
> ...


you're telling us about the things you have done, but not much about the results in the cup (weight & taste), I appreciate it is frustrating, but with such a scattergun approach it's hard for anyone to assess what's going on, let alone make suggestions. Try and stick to a dose, tamp & prep method and just vary the fewest things you can (grind & maybe brew ratio).

Keep a log of the parameters & taste assessments so you can always refer back to a last happy place.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

JK009 said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for your advice
> 
> ...


http://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/contact/

Send it for my attention


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

This bean isn't an ultra light roast


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Ok, noted that it's a medium.

Still- it's important that you check your output by weight.

Knowing input and output are probably the two most important things.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Also, I'm interested how you are measuring temp.

While not impossible 99 seems unlikely....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Totalmax 100): 94

Roasting Information

*Medium to medium dark*, from before second to just into it, nowhere else. This one needs to be treated very carefully.

"Quick Look" Guide

Raspberry, honey, melted chocolate, smooth, very clean.

Good filter?

Yes

Good espresso?

Yes


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Ok... I get it...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyle548 said:


> Ok... I get it...


That wasn't for your benefit but for everyone reading the forum , to put this coffee in context.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I really enjoyed this thread. :|


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Whatever I tried from 15g, 16,17,18g. Because of the sour I keep changing the set up : fine grind, croaser grind, tamp hard or lightly...long pull , short pull....

So the weight out variety from 19g , 20g, 28, 35, 39g...

The point is sometimes I let the temp be very hot ( I think it will burn the bean, but it is not) , it is still sour taste

I order 2 bean: Costa Rica Finca de Licho and Brazil Fazendas Cachoeira £5.50

the Brazil Fazendas was sour at first, but after changing the grind, tamp...pulling , the sour had gone

the bean has been sent back to Has Bean today in second class. Any information will be updated later


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Temp is one variable. You could pull a 18 into 20 shot at a high temp and still under extract ( sour )

Sorry if asked before. .....what grinder are you using

.


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Temp is one variable. You could pull a 18 into 20 shot at a high temp and still under extract ( sour )
> 
> Sorry if asked before. .....what grinder are you using
> 
> .


Hi

i have HG One ( first version)

I did struggle to grind that kind of medium roast bean in finer grind


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

JK009 said:


> Hi
> 
> i have HG One ( first version)
> 
> I did struggle to grind that kind of medium roast bean in finer grind


What is your normal preference of bean on roaster


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

It is dark roast

with Signature blend bean from Rave, I also struggle to grind


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

JK009 said:


> It is dark roast
> 
> with Signature blend bean from Rave, I also struggle to grind


Do you find Signature sour also .

Dark from ? algerian ? coffee compass?


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Having no trouble with Signature Rave coffee in Gaggia Classic

I will try Signature with La Pavoni


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

In the past , I had Waitrose Kenya AA bean


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

JK009 said:


> Hi
> 
> i have HG One ( first version)
> 
> I did struggle to grind that kind of medium roast bean in finer grind


Struggled using HG One with medium roasts to get shots that weren't overly acidic, i.e. sour.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

JK009 said:


> Whatever I tried from 15g, 16,17,18g. Because of the sour I keep changing the set up : fine grind, croaser grind, tamp hard or lightly...long pull , short pull....
> 
> So the weight out variety from 19g , 20g, 28, 35, 39g...
> 
> ...


Most HasBean coffee is sour to my palate. I don't like it.

But plenty do, and I think it is very probable that taste is highly subjective (sorry JJ prestige!). Some people like a nice hot curry, some people find it inedible. That means that what is good for one person is bad for another (yes, JJ, there are no aesthetic absolutes. I pissed on a masterpiece this morning, but that's because it looked like a urinal)

I find acidic coffee undrinkable. My brain tells me it is sour and nasty. It took me a trip to a '3rd wave,' style light roaster for me to have confirmation that my technique was fine....I just didn't like their coffee.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

As your hill and valley review will testify.


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Spazbarista said:


> Most HasBean coffee is sour to my palate. I don't like it.
> 
> But plenty do, and I think it is very probable that taste is highly subjective (sorry JJ prestige!). Some people like a nice hot curry, some people find it inedible. That means that what is good for one person is bad for another (yes, JJ, there are no aesthetic absolutes. I pissed on a masterpiece this morning, but that's because it looked like a urinal)
> 
> I find acidic coffee undrinkable. My brain tells me it is sour and nasty. It took me a trip to a '3rd wave,' style light roaster for me to have confirmation that my technique was fine....I just didn't like their coffee.


Hi Spazbarista

Thanks for your post to let me know. It seems that the nature of the bean is sour no matter what I tried.

i ordered that bean basing on the suggestion from:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24272-Recommendations-please

MrBoots2u and Rmblack78 seem to have no sourness at all.

My espresso has no sugar , no milk.

I am not sure they drink their espresso with sugar or milk base???

I highly appreciate MrBoots2u OR anyone ,who has Costa Rica Finca de Licho at this moment, please try to make an espresso without sugar or milk base and let me know if there is any sourness

Thanks


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I finished my bag yesterday and it wasn't sour. It was good as espresso and delicious as brewed.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I drink my espresso without sugar. I make a single shot neat and a single shot in milk , each drink i make . So i drink 50/50 espresso.

What i taste , wont be the same as what you taste , even if we drink the same drink from the same cup , let alone a drink that is brewed on different machines and grinders .

The OP on that thread, you linked, has suggested he liked Foundry rocko for example so perhaps his palate was more used to or open to a fruiter coffee?

This isn't meat to sound rude but i wasn't recommending it for you , i don't know what coffee you like or liked....if you have a preference for coffee - coffee with little if no fruityness than i might have steered you in a different direction

When i cupped and drank the coffee as espresso i got the honey, sweet chocolate and some raspberry as per the tasting notes. When i under extracted it to start i got more fruit sourness than sweetness , i corrected the brew ratio and hit the notes i wanted - i don't know if you drank my shot whether you would get the same flavours or not . This wasn't to my mind a " third wave , light roasted coffee " it was a medium roast. But light / medium / dark colours can tell tell you little about the developement of the roast

I don't know if you are under extracting a shot to the point where there is too much sourness for you .... short shots can be strong and under extracted for example ...

This isn't aimed at you, per se , but in general it can be a combination two factors - you have bought something that isn't to your preference and it may also be under extracting it , making it an unpleasant experience for you ...

For example i am not a huge fan of Signature blend as espresso ( at nominal good extractions ) , Doesn't mean its a " defective roast " just i am not a huge fan of that blend

Gary will cup it and see if it meets the QC that the roaster would expect ...


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi JJ009,

I finished a bag of Licho last week, which was pretty enjoyable.

If anything, it was a bit too dark for my taste (I'm sure the roast was further developed than in previous years).

There is some acidity, but it definitely wasn't sour to my palate.


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> This isn't meat to sound rude but i wasn't recommending it for you , i don't know what coffee you like ..


Please accept my apology due to using English not correctly/ not properly or whatever

May I say : I copy a recommendation for rmblack78 ( the OP in the thread link)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

JK009 said:


> Please accept my apology due to using English not correctly/ not properly or whatever
> 
> May I say : I copy a recommendation for rmblack78 ( the OP in the thread link)


No apology needed....

I know that my preference for coffee isnt universal . I try and ask people what they currently like to get a picture of what they might like .....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Update : Sample of said coffee has arrived and will be cupped next to another production sample from a different days roast.

Steve is cupping this personally .


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ok, so Steve cupped the coffee along side another production roast .

He said the there was nothing wrong with it and that it cupped like a typical Costa Rican coffee roasted dark-medium.

I had a sneaky taste afterwards and yep its typical Licho. Honey and chocolate with pretty gentle raspberry acidity.

Anyway , we are happy to refund or send you something else , choice is yours.


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Ok, so Steve cupped the coffee along side another production roast .
> 
> He said the there was nothing wrong with it and that it cupped like a typical Costa Rican coffee roasted dark-medium.
> 
> ...


Hi Gary

Thank you very much for updated information

You do not have to refund or send anything

It could be my poor skills or my individual preference taste.

Thanks again and have a good day


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

You did start an interesting thread JK009, though, and overall it will help you work out what beans are for you and what aren't. From my point of view it helped me think about some of my subjective coffee experiences and how responsive roasters can be in their quest to do the right thing for a customer.

Have a good weekend,

Phil


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