# Expobar Dual Leva



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

So the Heavenly is off to a new owner, and i'm looking for a dual boiler machine to replace her with -

I'm poised to pull the trigger on a new expo dual leva - couple of questions for you dual boiler peeps (i'm looking at you Gary!







)

1) would the additional £500-£600 get me a much better machine (vetrano, R58, duetto)?

2) Is there another equal machine for the money?

3) Having owned a dual boiler, do you feel it justifies the extra expense over an HX?

4) Would a high end HX machine (e.g. Rocket Evoluzione V2) offer me more?

Just interested in your thoughts anyway..

Probably stuff that has come up before, but I looking for confidence in my next purchase

Cheers


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hopefully I wont get shot down. Disclaimer - this is my opinion & not hard fact.

1) I wont answer this as i havent spent enough time on those machines. I shall say a shot of espresso has never been presented which would temp me to spend the extra.

2) No

3) Yes, 100%

4) define 'more'

Come and play on my machine any time you like.

The new quickmill looks to be a very impressive machine, ive not played on one , it would be my choice if it were a little bit cheaper. I would prefer if my machine were plumbed in and rotary pumped - this is from a practical point of view not one of result in the cup!

...other than that I wouldnt change it at all

(Oh I added handles to the lid for access to the tank)

(better portafilter spouts, the ones supplied are the same as a gaggia classic!)


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

I realise it's a long trip but have you considered a visit to Bella Barista - at least you could try some of these machines side-by-side. Expo DB is only proper espresso machine I've owned or used (aside from one a shot on coffeechap's old Bosco) so can't really comment on comparisons. Very happy with mine though and only machine I'd consider switching for would be an L1 (and I'm not sure I'd even switch then...)


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You already know my opinion Andy, but for what it's worth I think at its price point there is not a better machine than the expobar dual boiler, temp control, versatility, reliability, you would have to jump up to the Verona to do better. Agree with gary, a rotary pump would be the improvement.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Hopefully I wont get shot down. Disclaimer - this is my opinion & not hard fact.
> 
> 1) I wont answer this as i havent spent enough time on those machines. I shall say a shot of espresso has never been presented which would temp me to spend the extra.
> 
> ...


Thanks Gary,

I appreciate you own one, but your opinion is very welcome

I'm looking at the option for a rotary pump, but not sure they are available in the UK.

I suppose these additional costs would puts it nearer a Rocket HX machine, so I was just interested if the build quality/internals etc made them

a superior machine over the expo (in a straight espresso fight).

Its a difficult question to answer without a direct comparison I guess...(maybe not a fair comparison either).

The new QM and Duetto are the only other machines that interest me really, but the cost is just too high.

Cheers


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Nimble Motionists said:


> I realise it's a long trip but have you considered a visit to Bella Barista - at least you could try some of these machines side-by-side. Expo DB is only proper espresso machine I've owned or used (aside from one a shot on coffeechap's old Bosco) so can't really comment on comparisons. Very happy with mine though and only machine I'd consider switching for would be an L1 (and I'm not sure I'd even switch then...)


Thanks mate,

Was just thinking about a visit to BB, but its just too far at the minute.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> You already know my opinion Andy, but for what it's worth I think at its price point there is not a better machine than the expobar dual boiler, temp control, versatility, reliability, you would have to jump up to the Verona to do better. Agree with gary, a rotary pump would be the improvement.


Thanks chap - will have to make do with a silly lever for now anyways!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I owned an Expobar Dual leva. I had the Bb test model for nearly four years and only got rid to move to a lever. I am never convinced that if the class of machine is equal, ie all HX or dual boiler, then machine a is going to be much better than machine b. I know some say a Rotary delivers a smoother cup but I do not know why. The Leva is capable. The only thing against it is it has been around for 5 years or so now. time to iron out the problems but hs it fallen behnd newer machines.....I do not know, but at that price point, they are well made and I enjoyed owning mine.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Well if its any reassurance - My Expo hasnt missed a beat and I would guestimate over 5000 or so shots (50-60 of which have been >50 second ristrettos). The pump isnt tired and im on the original group seal and shower screen!!!!


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I will start by saying I have not owned a Brewtus but have had a go on one a few times. While I would state that the overall finish and design is not up to a Rocket for example (personal view) these machines really cant be beaten at that price point. Just look at the specs to see why these are such a bargain, ok you dont get a rotary but is that such an issue? Nothing compared to grinder noise!

These machines are well loved and I would have no concerns about build quality. Bare in mind that a Classic should easily give 10 years service, 20+ if you look after it properly and replace the necessary components. Lets face it, there will be something more shiny and with more whistles on it that you move onto long before it dies!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You can get a rotary variant of the brewtus, but it is plumb in only, actually considering getting one myself just to play with temp profiles.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> You can get a rotary variant of the brewtus, but it is plumb in only, actually considering getting one myself just to play with temp profiles.


Right - question on plumbing, can you chuck the line-in into a large temporary water bottle or make shift container?


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

aphelion said:


> Right - question on plumbing, can you chuck the line-in into a large temporary water bottle or make shift container?


Not having done this but I believe this is fine if you have a pump drawing the water through. Not ok with levers that take the line pressure from the water mains.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

aphelion said:


> Right - question on plumbing, can you chuck the line-in into a large temporary water bottle or make shift container?


Yep, you just need to fit a non-return valve on the end of the intake hose.

To get the full benefit of pre infusion (if you like to do it manually) though you're best to plumb in.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Remember the water tank and drip tray on the Expobars is HUGE. Not sure which would be more of a problem - having to empty the tray daily or carrying 3 litres of black water to the sink once a week.

Still plumbing in is the way to go......of course so long as the mains water is of good enough quality and filtered adequately.....then theres the descaling.....thats another conversation


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah, would definitely not hook up the drain line, just the intake hose (but if there is no pre-infusion, then perhaps i'll be losing out...)

Might just opt for a vibe and tank version in this case (can't see me plumbing in for a couple of years).

Presumably pre-infusion is fine with the tank?

Cheers


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yes the very nature of e61 and vibe pump combo creates an extended pre-infusion of 6-12 seconds grind dependant.

You wont have true line-pressure BUT near end of the shot you can kill the pump in the mid-lever position and the flow continues with declining momentum of pressure...kind of like a poor mans Strada : )


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok, so am I right in saying that if I had either:-

1) a rotary pump - intake in a bucket

or

2) a vibe pump - intake in a tank

The pre-infusion abilities would be the same?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Definitely. There is also a model offering a vibe pump with both plumb and tank options if you wish to plumb later.

Rotary pump version is plumb only though.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You can rig a small 3 bar pump that comes on when you turn the brew lever on to a tank under a counter or larger water bottle say 10 litre, what this does is emulates the natural line pressure from a mains feed, rotary pulps don't really like to push and pull which is what you would demand if you just had a tank , they really require a lone pressure over 2 Bar to work effeciently.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice guys, will be joining the brewtus clan very soon methinks!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brewtus clan has a foreboding ring to it


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Once again - if you want a play prior to splashing the cash, i'm approx 2 hrs 25 mins away ; )


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Cheers Gary, may well take you up on that


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Gary have you convinced TOH on your up grade and kitchen re arrange or is it still work in progress ????


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It didnt happen. I missed out on the machine and am kind of glad I did. Too much going on outside of the world of coffee right now


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Gary, what is your current maintenance routine for Mr brewtus?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Detergent back-flush every time I switch coffee, varies between 7-14 days. At the same time Ill remove the showerscreen and group seal giving everything (portafilter / baskets/showerscreen) a soak for a few hours/overnight in the drip-tray.

The watertank gets oxyclean'd then Starsan'd every month or so.

I used bottled water with a moderate TDS so I only check the e61 mushroom for signs of scale every 6 months. Although Ill usually descale the steam boiler with citric acid anyway as its no hastle, also removing the steamwand and hotwater tips to also soak in citric acid.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

I've had mine (lastest model MKIV) since May and I have to say, I absolutely love it. The versatility of having a sexual PID is what makes the machine top notch for me and with a HX, it's always going to be guesswork. I can't fault it! Awesome machine and looks real nice too.


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

poona said:


> I absolutely love it. The versatility of having a sexual PID is what makes the machine top notch for me


Err...you clearly love your machine more than I do mine


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Haha







.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Mmm sexual PID!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

My next upgrade is going to be a Brewtus, but hopefully that won't be for a while yet


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Should be getting mine in October, but the wait is killing me...

Thankfully, Coffeechap stopped by yesterday and dropped off a sweet Gaggia Achille as a loan!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Should be getting mine in October, but the wait is killing me...
> 
> Thankfully, Coffeechap stopped by yesterday and dropped off a sweet Gaggia Achille as a loan!


Cool , by all accounts that makes some nice coffee !


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Cool , by all accounts that makes some nice coffee !


Yeah, its pretty different to what I'm used to, but makes a great shot when you know how (I'm still learning the dark art of levers, and currently I suck!)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You not tempted by the Quickmill then?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> You not tempted by the Quickmill then?


Nah, the Verona looks good, but if i was spending that sort of money i'd take a Duetto

The expo is sensible money!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Quickmill got that cracking review which I think will turn a few heads towards it in future . Wonder if there will be one at the BB day ,along with the new ECM .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Nah, the Verona looks good, but if i was spending that sort of money i'd take a Duetto
> 
> The expo is sensible money!


Didnt Dave c put away his duetto for the quickmill ? Or perhaps I got it mixed up.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yep, I doubt there is much between them though


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Yep, I doubt there is much between them though


Didnt Dave c have a hand in the early design of the duetto , or was it another machine ?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Didnt Dave c have a hand in the early design of the duetto , or was it another machine ?


I know he swapped his prototype duetto for a Verona, so he probably was closely involved somewhere...

He certainly thinks the Verona is a superior machine, I just don't really like it personally.

But I don't like the duetto enough to splash £1800 either lol


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

have you considered a mini Vivaldi 2. price inbetween the Brewtus and the R58


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

glevum said:


> have you considered a mini Vivaldi 2. price inbetween the Brewtus and the R58


Yep, I like it, but the small baskets put me off (its the little things lol







)


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Yep, I like it, but the small baskets put me off (its the little things lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a good point if you have all your nice tampers. That DB really appeals to me though.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

glevum said:


> That's a good point if you have all your nice tampers. That DB really appeals to me though.


Yeah, I think they offer something a bit different from the norm..the yanks seem to love em too!


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## Machina Espresso (Aug 14, 2013)

Hi Andy,

Seems like most points have been well covered. But just to add, there is usually always stock in the UK of the rotary pump version if you opt to go down that route.

I have owned the dual boiler version (dual connection / vibe pump) myself, and think it's an outstanding machine. Amazing quality shots day in day out. For the money, it kicks well above it's weight when compared with many other machines in it's class.

We either have stock of, or can get - any of the non standard configurations of the Office Leva range. Feel free to give us a call if you need any help at all...

Cheers

Machina


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Machina Espresso said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> Seems like most points have been well covered. But just to add, there is usually always stock in the UK of the rotary pump version if you opt to go down that route.
> 
> ...


Great, will be sure to look at your website tonight then

Just out of interest (DB versus HX aside) how do you rate the Rocket Evoluzione V2 machines alongside the Expo DB?

Cheers

Andy


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Yes he did quite emphatically.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

El carajillo said:


> Yes he did quite emphatically.


I suppose i've got stuck in the age old HX/DB question again..

Midrange DB versus high end HX??


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Dude you know that you want a pid so there really is only one option at the price point, the expo is a great machine, highly recommended that will do everything you want of it, no brainer man


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Just do it! You wont regret it


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## Machina Espresso (Aug 14, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Great, will be sure to look at your website tonight then
> 
> Just out of interest (DB versus HX aside) how do you rate the Rocket Evoluzione V2 machines alongside the Expo DB?
> 
> ...


Hi Andy,

Both great machines. It completely depends on you're use. The key questions are - Do you change beans lots, do you like to experiment with temperature a lot and how important are 'looks'.

People traditionally go for DB's as they want more accurate control over brewing variables, alongside the 'no cooling flush' argument.

We always ask people if they 'really' need a dual boiler, or are they just buying one cause they think they need one. In many cases, people downsize to a good HX, as they realise they don't actually have the need for a dual boiler.

The best advice I can give you about the Rocket Evoluzione is that they deliver excellent temp stability for an HX and their shot quality is seriously good. They are also beautiful machines. The Office Leva DB is a workhorse that gives you greater temp control, but you forego some style in the process...

The only question is - rotary or vibe?? 

We're here if you need any advice at all...

Machina


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

By the time you've chosen you'll have enough saved to get a GS3


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> By the time you've chosen you'll have enough saved to get a GS3


Or perhaps a slayer


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Haha, in my dreams









Choice is down to 2 machines basically..

1) Rocket Cellini Evoluzione V2

2) Expobar Dual Leva (Vibe - Tank Only)

So its either a shiny Rocket or Functional Expo

Hmm compromises...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hey the Expo is shiny enough! You dont look at the fireplace whilst stoking the fire anyway : )


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Hey the Expo is shiny enough! You dont look at the fireplace whilst stoking the fire anyway : )


What can I say dude, i'm a sucker for the shiny Italian stuff!









I love the rotary dual feed on the Rocket too..

damn this sucks!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Rocket rocket rocket. I let you know what the rotary brewtus is like


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Rocket rocket rocket. I let you know what the rotary brewtus is like


Cheers dude, it's a close call


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I have a Leva dual boiler and am very happy with it. In fact mine is a mk2 2006 model with the digital thermostat instead of PID. I picked it up for a bargain 300 quid and it blows the socks off the fracino piccino I had before in terms of temperature control and stability. I had to replace the pump after it started misfiring and upgraded the OPV to a later model. And eventually the thermostat wore out bwcause of the heat (not an issue in later PID models) but that was simple to replace. Other than that nothing has had to be replaced and it serves me well. I wouldn't bother upgrading to things like the duetto since I don't think it's justified. Now an L1 maybe...


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Monkey_Devil said:


> I have a Leva dual boiler and am very happy with it. In fact mine is a mk2 2006 model with the digital thermostat instead of PID. I picked it up for a bargain 300 quid and it blows the socks off the fracino piccino I had before in terms of temperature control and stability. I had to replace the pump after it started misfiring and upgraded the OPV to a later model. And eventually the thermostat wore out bwcause of the heat (not an issue in later PID models) but that was simple to replace. Other than that nothing has had to be replaced and it serves me well. I wouldn't bother upgrading to things like the duetto since I don't think it's justified. Now an L1 maybe...


Cheers mate, i'm close to pulling the trigger!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Im free on friday or Saturday if you want to come and play coffee


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You are free and not coming to the forum day, tut tut gary!!!!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Alas house sitting on Saturday night!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Decision made brewtus clan!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

ooooooooooohhhhhh


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

very exciting, can't wait!









couple of questions gary:-

1) which portafilters will fit? (bottomless/spouted)

2) how long do you warm up?

3) anything you'd change out of the box? (settings and equipment)

Cheers


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

1) standard e61. HIGHLY recommend the ceramic green spouts from Jens at Torr - the ones that come with the Expo are rubbish.

2) Depends if the steam boiler is on or not. I tend to allow 25-30 mins minimum but you can get a decent emergency shot if needed in 15.

3) spouts as per 1) check the offset . ie flashing to steam at 99C. Stick boiler pressure at 1.3BAR. Get handles for access to the tank. Calibrate brew pressure with an e61 manometer (the gauge should be accurate enough however)


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Sweet thx gary, will get the ceramic spouts off dave


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> 1) standard e61. HIGHLY recommend the ceramic green spouts from Jens at Torr - the ones that come with the Expo are rubbish.
> 
> 2) Depends if the steam boiler is on or not. I tend to allow 25-30 mins minimum but you can get a decent emergency shot if needed in 15.
> 
> 3) spouts as per 1) check the offset . ie flashing to steam at 99C. Stick boiler pressure at 1.3BAR. Get handles for access to the tank. Calibrate brew pressure with an e61 manometer (the gauge should be accurate enough however)


Which spouts do you mean?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

These http://cafe-kultur.de/products/portafilter-cg-e61-standard


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

They are the Teflon coated spouts for the portafilters that torr make.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> They are the Teflon coated spouts for the portafilters that torr make.


Ah ok do you have a website link to them?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Ah ok do you have a website link to them?


Dave 'Coffeechap' is the best person to source these mate









He gets them from Jens at Cafe Kultur in Germany (along with the Torr tampers etc)

The Cafe Kultur website shows the different items he makes (handles, knock-boxes, spouts)

I can vouch that the items are all fantastic quality (they are german after all!)

http://cafe-kultur.de/

Regards


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> These http://cafe-kultur.de/products/portafilter-cg-e61-standard


Cheers, somehow missed your post. So these are worth getting to replace the standard portafilter that was bundled with my isomac tea?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Cheers, somehow missed your post. So these are worth getting to replace the standard portafilter that was bundled with my isomac tea?


depends what your standard spouts are like. The Expo's are the same as the Gaggia Classic!!

i think the green spouts I have are the Cimbali ones but they fit on the e61 portafilter and look amazing


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> depends what your standard spouts are like. The Expo's are the same as the Gaggia Classic!!
> 
> i think the green spouts I have are the Cimbali ones but they fit on the e61 portafilter and look amazing


How much did you pay for them? My spouts are like these http://www.ladolcevitaitaliana.com/images/isomac%20tea%20(2).jpg


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Walter Sobchak said:


> How much did you pay for them? My spouts are like these http://www.ladolcevitaitaliana.com/images/isomac%20tea%20(2).jpg


Yours look decent to be fair . They were 15 quid from memory but never need cleaning only rinsing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Yours look decent to be fair . They were 15 quid from memory but never need cleaning only rinsing
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


Not a bad price then.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

They were £15 unfortunately I can only offer the 20 percent discount from the prices on the web site, had to pay the extra myself for the ones I sold at the grind off!!!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

What where??? Who??

Did somebody mention decent spouts for the Expo?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Yep check them out


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

The green spouts are cool. I have a double spout for an old style LM group handle

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wa89myek83zpn1/1.jpg


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Love those older LM spouts. Infact the older Lineas are cool


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

"the brewt" will arrive on the 8th October..sweet!!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

~Good choice Andy. I f'kin love my Brewtus!! The shot quality compared to my Fracino is night and day. And the beauty with the PID is that you get perfect consistency every time with no guesswork needed!

Can also vouch for the green ceramic spouts, I use them.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Yeh congrats dude and I get my lovely gaggia back, I think it has missed my loving hands


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

poona said:


> ~Good choice Andy. I f'kin love my Brewtus!! The shot quality compared to my Fracino is night and day. And the beauty with the PID is that you get perfect consistency every time with no guesswork needed!
> 
> Can also vouch for the green ceramic spouts, I use them.


Cheers dude, very exciting!







gonna unleash the Kony on that bad boy!!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Yeh congrats dude and I get my lovely gaggia back, I think it has missed my loving hands


Thanks man, I thought I heard it crying last night..Jesuz!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

aphelion said:


> Cheers dude, very exciting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats going to be a sick combo. Congrats


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

aphelion said:


> Cheers dude, very exciting!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Blimey! I'm getting incredible shots and I'm only using a SJ. You're gonna have a taste-gasm when you pair it with that Kony!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Taste-gasm haha.

You know the first test is to pick your favourite coffee and brew 2 shots ..one at 90 and one at 96 (with 15 mins recovery time in between) see if you like the difference


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Taste-gasm haha.
> 
> You know the first test is to pick your favourite coffee and brew 2 shots ..one at 90 and one at 96 (with 15 mins recovery time in between) see if you like the difference


Haha yep, gonna finish up this 750g of Jampit on day 1









First thing i'll do is get that offset adjusted properly Gary..

Will crank up to 99C and see if she splutters!!

Hopefully will get those Ceramic spouts/portafilter etc

Dave is already taunting me with his "rotary" expo...


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

mmmmmm rotary pumps rule.......


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> mmmmmm rotary pumps rule.......


haha [email protected]!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Ok, my expo has lovely dark wood handles on it.

If out of sheer boredom I was to get the casing (the big u-shaped bit of steel) powder coated or sprayed, what colour would be best?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> Ok, my expo has lovely dark wood handles on it.
> 
> If out of sheer boredom I was to get the casing (the big u-shaped bit of steel) powder coated or sprayed, what colour would be best?


I assume you mean the spouts or the portafilter? (not the portafilter handle)

Might want to have a word with coffeechap, he mentioned some kind of teflon coating his bloke could dip them in...

In terms of colour though, I think black looks nice


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I think he is in about the outer casing


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Right ok..my bad!

A teflon coated outer casing would be completely sh1t!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Picking up the Brewt on monday! (+ stopping by Dave's for a nice green portafilter







)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Good times.

Any regrets or ''should have gone for the Alex/Rocket/GS3/Slayer'' thoughts?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Good times.
> 
> Any regrets or ''should have gone for the Alex/Rocket/GS3/Slayer'' thoughts?


I think the next logical step would be a GS3..but that is a long way off!

No regrets on Duetto or Verona, though both are lovely, can't see a big difference.

Spose the only alternative would be an L1/Bosco or equivalent, but i'm not sold on levers (yet!)


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I am still looking at all my options as I really want a new 1000+ machine. I bought a La Pavoni because of the recommendations of the forum and I haven't regretted it. But the La Pav was 300€ and a 1000+ is a different ball game. From what I have seen / read / heard so far, I am becoming more and more sold on the Expobar. I'd actually have to pay 800€ more for an equivalent machine by another make. It has a PID and dual boiler and seems to be extremely versatile. Some people talk about the looks but I think it looks nice too. A lot of the "better looking" machines are far more expensive but inferior in tech specs. I would be up to paying for the R58 but I am not really convinced by how "superior" they shot would be so paying £600 more is just not a sensible option for me. But I certainly won't be going for one of the more expensive heat exchanger machines.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

One thing I did find interesting at the BB members day was that there was an R58, 2 Duettos and the Quickmill Verona out for us to play with but not an Expo Dual Boiler, although is or was Claudette's own personal choice for her home machine.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

I'm guessing it made business sense to 'hide' the capabilities of the Expo on that day as people would've seen how equal it was to the machines on demo that are £800+ more expensive.

I could be wrong ;-)


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

poona said:


> I'm guessing it made business sense to 'hide' the capabilities of the Expo on that day as people would've seen how equal it was to the machines on demo that are £800+ more expensive.
> 
> I could be wrong ;-)


Haha, i'm not sure its quite in the same league as those..its gotta be pretty close though..

Would be interested to hear the differences in the cup!


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

How did the quickmill Verona stack up on the forum day?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

aphelion said:


> Haha, i'm not sure its quite in the same league as those..its gotta be pretty close though..
> 
> Would be interested to hear the differences in the cup!


I dont think blind tasting you'd annouce ''wow this shot is clearly from a machine costing 800 quid more''


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah I think it'd be more about the build quality, rotary pump etc..I'm happy I chose the brewtus, can't wait to fire it up!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Oooooo mine is fired up


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Oooooo mine is fired up


Nice, i'll be looking forward to breakfast then!


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

is it the version 4 brewtus that comes with switchable steam?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

GS11 said:


> is it the version 4 brewtus that comes with switchable steam?


Indeed it is..i went for the tank only vibe option, very happy with it so far


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

come on man get the photo up on show us your set up......


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Where's the cheapest place to get one of these in the UK? And Coffeechap, I'm still waiting for an opinion on the coffee it produces!!!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

surely you can get them in spain as they are made there! It is early days for me playing with the brewtus and difficult to focus purely on it when the L1 is sat next to it, however I am really impressed with the shots I am getting from it, the rotary pump is quiet and controlled, the build quality is really good and feels robust, the steam wand is great loads of control and super smooth micro foam

I have only put Rave signature from a K30 through it thus far, the cappacino I had showed similar characteristics to when I pull them on the L1 however I appreciate the shot is masked by the milk. Will get to pulling some side by side stuff with jampit once it has rested, will also do some side by side shots with the DSOL bean when I get back from Italy.

Bottom line, IMHO there is no better machine at £1200 point blank.........


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

OK - don't laugh. They are made in Valencia and I'm quite prepared to drive the 6 hours to the factory. However, they only work with their wholesalers and the price ... 2500 euros. Yes, you read it correctly. I have sourced a second hand model for 990 and can probably get him down a bit but for such a small difference in price, I would probably go new.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

wow, that is a mark up, there are a cuple of good reatialers on the forum, michael at machina espresso has good deals as well as bella barista


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I know, already been in touch with them a month or so ago! I think it's to do with the way the coffee business is here. These a suppliers to catering companies and restaurants. I tell you, coffee culture here is not that great so machines get sold in small quantities by small suppliers and that pushes the price up. But I have seen these machines in the Netherlands, UK and Germany for around the 1000 pound mark so I'm waiting it out, trying to find an acceptable offer at the right moment. If the model I wanted had been available I would have bought it 6 weeks ago but it was out of stock. It's just a question of doing the rounds again!


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

I wonder if a group buy would have any benefit if other members were interested?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I can probably get a good deal on these if there is interest, or at least give it a good go..


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> come on man get the photo up on show us your set up......


Right, so i've had the Expo at home for a couple of days, some initial thoughts..

The machine comes well packed from BB (they obviously do the usual bench testing etc.) a very nice bunch of peeps!

I went to pick it up on monday, and they had it set up on the bench + were able to walk me through some of the features/factory adjustments etc.

I was firstly taken back by the small size of the machine. I've upgraded from a Fracino Heavenly, which has quite a large footprint/case.

The expo is surprisingly compact, even compared to the other dual boiler machines (Duetto, Verona, R58).

It is also really nicely put together (i'm picky as hell about these things), and quite the looker!

This was a good surprise, because i'd heard alot about "it isn't an italian machine", "they've kept the costs down" bla bla etc.

Bottom line, its really nice! (don't let this put you off)

So far, i've pulled about 20 shots, which have all been consistent.

BB provide 1kg of their own beans, which are "ok"

I switched over to Rave JJ last night, and the difference really was massive..

The pours are just fantastic - I have to say, a big improvement over my fracino.

Flows like butter, tastes like...err butter??

Its still early days, but for anyone thinking of purchasing one, consider this an endorsement.

Will update later with pictures and further comments, but here are some early findings:-

Pros

- Consistent pressure (adjustable group/boiler)

- Stable temperature and PID

- Nice looking machine!

- Excellent value

- Easy setup and adjustment

- Big tank/drip tray

- Compact!

Cons

- Dials were wonky out of the box (really no excuse for this, BB re-aligned them for me)

- Vibe pump is loud (possibly slightly louder than my Fracino) - i'm picky, but if you have the option/plumbing get a rotary!

- Portafilter does not lock in at 90 degrees (smaller gasket needed - weird how their standard PF doesn't fit??)

It really is amazing how they squeezed all that gear into the case, but so far its a joy to use









Thanks to Gary/Coffeechap etc. for recommendations etc. winning!

Regards


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## shaun1 (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks andy.

Getting more and more tempted by the Expobar.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

You're all making it very difficult for me to keep my money in my pocket!


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

I too am tempted!


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## Machina Espresso (Aug 14, 2013)

If a few members wanted to buy Expobars, whether Dual Boiler or HX, we would be able to offer a competitive price. We'll look into it and maybe start a thread to see if there's interest in a group buy, or reply here / PM us in the mean time.

Cheers

Machina


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## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

Must be an awesome setup now. Bet it looks great next to that awesome grinder! You'll have to put up some pictures soon, well keen to see!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

spune said:


> Must be an awesome setup now. Bet it looks great next to that awesome grinder! You'll have to put up some pictures soon, well keen to see!


Its a killer setup dude..very pleased, no upgraditis (yet!)


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I just wish people would stop saying how good the L1 is, and I just wish my roaster hadn't just installed an L1 because I just know its going to be amazing when I get in there and try it.

Fuck.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Have you set the offset? It was quite a bit off from the BB settings on mine.

Also, it's very worth increasing to 1.3 BAR for the steam pressure. You get much better steaming power.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah, seems pretty close on 10 offset, pressure about 1.1 at the minute, might adjust


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> I just wish people would stop saying how good the L1 is, and I just wish my roaster hadn't just installed an L1 because I just know its going to be amazing when I get in there and try it.
> 
> Fuck.


I was in there pulling shots for customers on it today, they love it


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I was in there pulling shots for customers on it today, they love it


What grinder is the L1 paired with @ Rave?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It was paired with the super caimano I left there, but space is crucial so it is paired to the other two guest grin spiders, so a compak k10 and a mazzer sj, but these will both be gazzumped my two mazzer royals in a couple of weeks


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> I was in there pulling shots for customers on it today, they love it


Shutupshutupshutupshutupshutup

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> It was paired with the super caimano I left there, but space is crucial so it is paired to the other two guest grin spiders, so a compak k10 and a mazzer sj, but these will both be gazzumped my two mazzer royals in a couple of weeks


Getting good shot from the k10 in there then?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ha ha what is a grin spider, must be spell check for grinder, the best combo I have tried with the l1 so far is with a k10' the guy that had the peaberry from it said it was the best shot he has tasted all year! He must be going to some dodgy places for coffee....


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Right, so i've had the Expo at home for a couple of days, some initial thoughts..
> 
> The machine comes well packed from BB (they obviously do the usual bench testing etc.) a very nice bunch of peeps!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review...look forward to some pics of your set-up:good:


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I can probably get a good deal on these if there is interest, or at least give it a good go..





Machina Espresso said:


> If a few members wanted to buy Expobars, whether Dual Boiler or HX, we would be able to offer a competitive price. We'll look into it and maybe start a thread to see if there's interest in a group buy, or reply here / PM us in the mean time.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Machina


There seems a bit of interest on here for the brewtus and I would be interested in details of a group buy:coffee:


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

As good as the L1 may be, it is massive and 700 quid more expensive than an expobar. If I was buying a Rocket, then I'd go for the L1 but I think the Expobar offers just the right amount of value ... especially if you can find it a little cheaper ... to keep me interested in it. The great thing the L1 offers - being totally brutal - is that it is a lever machine, producing velvety syruppy coffee, but you can leave it on all day - it is temp stable and consistant due to the spring. I reckon that some people will get close to an L1 shot with a La Pav or Gaggia Factory but, once a day, after it has had its 14 minute warm up and you turn it off and pull the shot - that's your window.

The expobar is just packed full of features for a great price IMO. I just hope I love it as much when I get one!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I can honestly say I have never got close to the l1 shot from a la pavoni, and I have pulled fab shots from the lovely little lever, I don't think the L1 is massive either, if you discount the lever, it is really compact, check it out next to the expo on my bench and is it worth the extra £800 absolutely, bare in mind that you really have to go up to the Gs3 in pump terms to get where the L1 sits, the clarity of shot is amazing on the L1, however the point still remains that at its price point the expo absolutely cannot be beaten and if that is the limit of your funds then it is a no brainer....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

So quick update, after playing on the l1 at rave all afternoon I came back to the bench and cherished a little time on the expo.

What I love about the plumb in version a with the rotary pump is the soft pre-infusion that it is capable, basically raise the lever until just before the pump engages and essentially the shot extraction will begin at straight line pressure, so 3 seconds of per infuse, pause then engage the pump and I have found that I am getting a beautifully smooth even extraction, engage pump for 18 seconds then cut it to line and watch the pressure taper off to a soft finish to the shot at around the 27 second mark.

Haven't played with temp yet as am loving playing with the different pressure options at the mo, but notice that the shots have excellent clarity, not as pronounced as the L1 but getting all the same tasting notes, pulled a short jampit thick syrupy extraction and just savoured the rich dark fruit full bodied mouthfeel. Looking forward to dropping the temp!!!


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

More than saying the La Pav was close, it was just an example of how superior the L1 is. Reading about it, it has been designed to overcome all the consistancy and temp difficulties of the lever machines. However, when it comes to spending so much on the L1, I have no desire to part with so much money - not actually because of the cost but because of the perceived value.

I know that I waste money on lots of things but when I buy them, they are bargains - that includes a stack of grinders that I pick up for next to nothing and the odd coffee machine too. However, despite all the purchases, I still use my Gaggia Classic and the La Pav I picked up for a bargain 200 euros because the Oscars, Iberitals and multitude of other machines I have been lucky enough to try just haven't been sufficiently better (if at all) than my Classic.

It is exactly that perceived value that you talk about in your last line that makes the Expobar so attractive to me. A small restaurant here in my town has the HX version and I have made some great espressos with it. I'll probably learn the hard and expensive way and end up upgrading again in six months but some of us just won't be told!!!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

As promised, some pics!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Nice dude conicals rule


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Its crying out for some dark wood handles from BB!!!!

The neat lines of the Expo suit the neat lines of your kitchen. Like it.


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## Machina Espresso (Aug 14, 2013)

That looks great! Awesome pairing with the Kony too.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Cheers y'all!

I have a nice dark wood handle from Dave, just needs fitting now


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Looking very nice aphelion..... well done:good:


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Looks great.... Nice fit under your cupboards as well.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Cheers guys, probably need to figure out a smaller hopper though!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Lens hood cover maybe?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Had the same problem. BB do a smaller one fr the Mazzer, but to be honest I weigh out each dose and just tip them into the hopper in a tiny Tupperware box.

Have you seen the BB wooden handle and knobs set? Two porta handles, steam and hot water knobs, and a wooden tip for the brew lever. They look great. I'll dig out a link to a vid of mine

Edit: here it is...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?7109-Seeing-as-how-we-are-all-doing-vids-now


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?7109-Seeing-as-how-we-are-all-doing-vids-now

There you go


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Daren said:


> Lens hood cover maybe?


Yep, looking at a few options like mazzer mini hopper etc.


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

I missed that video, just brilliant man.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

To be fair, I posted it over a year ago, but thanks for the compliment


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Expo's are the mutts nuts


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Haha, I love this video....


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Just want to say thank you to all those who 'guided' me towards the Brewtus. I have been playing with my Expobar and I have to say I'm in love! I really was dubious as to whether I would notice a great deal of difference but my first shot came out smooth as velvet! For any doubters, it is a proper espresso machine, made with proper parts and it makes proper coffee! Can't believe I'm saying that about something made in Spain but the truth is out! Again, thank you Coffee Forums UK!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

xiuxiuejar said:


> Just want to say thank you to all those who 'guided' me towards the Brewtus. I have been playing with my Expobar and I have to say I'm in love! I really was dubious as to whether I would notice a great deal of difference but my first shot came out smooth as velvet! For any doubters, it is a proper espresso machine, made with proper parts and it makes proper coffee! Can't believe I'm saying that about something made in Spain but the truth is out! Again, thank you Coffee Forums UK!


Proper ! Brilliant when advice leads to a happy purchase and ultimately a better coffee experience.!


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I can honestly say I am tight when it comes to parting with cash for certain things but I couldn't believe the quality of the unit while unpacking and the ease and controlability it gives. Not eye candy but not ugly, functional, featue packed but most important, wonderful espresso. Now gonna experiment with milk even though I've got nobody to give it to - hate milk! This is definitely the machine for me!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Aw man why did I click on this thread. Can feel money leaking away as I type


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Upgrade fever already!?


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Haha always a risk with me.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

geordie-barista said:


> Aw man why did I click on this thread. Can feel money leaking away as I type


Geordie no . You said at least 2 months with your machine, this time !!!!!!!!!!!. It's got disco light for god sake , disco lights! If that's not reason enough to keep it then what is ?


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Haha true. Disco lights rule.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

geordie-barista said:


> Haha true. Disco lights rule.


And it matches the mythos .....


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Wonder if I can pid it.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

xiuxiuejar said:


> Just want to say thank you to all those who 'guided' me towards the Brewtus. I have been playing with my Expobar and I have to say I'm in love! I really was dubious as to whether I would notice a great deal of difference but my first shot came out smooth as velvet! For any doubters, it is a proper espresso machine, made with proper parts and it makes proper coffee! Can't believe I'm saying that about something made in Spain but the truth is out! Again, thank you Coffee Forums UK!


Congrats on your new Brewtus xiuxiuejar:good: An E61 machine represents great choice as an upgrade on the classic, dual boiler more so, and like the classic the brewtus offers great bang for buck factor. Brewtus is also extremely well built.

Shame you are not into milk, but at least on the BrewtusIV you can turn off the steam boiler independently. I disagree on the looks department mind..I love the E61 retro chrome styling and analogue gauges etc.

Good luck getting one of your mazzers into the kitchen alongside the Brewtus....and look forward too some pics in due course.


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