# What am I doing wrong?



## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Until recently I had my espressos nailed. I haven't changed anything - I've become quite anal (largely thanks to this forum) about making coffee. Everything is the same each and every time. But for the last month or so I've been getting a disappointing crema - it's there, but it's thin and doesn't hold for long. I've also noticed the cake that I tip out is now quite wet and leaves quite a lot of crumbs whereas before it was pretty dry and solid and tipped out clean. I really don't want to start tampering with grinder settings if I can avoid it as I'm using a hand grinder and it took me a long time to find the setting I was happy with. There are no markings so if I start adjusting I may never get back to one I'm happy with!

I buy really nice beans and the only thing I can think of is freshness - the last couple of times the roasting date has been over a week past when I bought the beans - is this likely to make a significant difference?? And if not, what could be the issue? I'm sure we've all poured a disappointing coffee before, but it's become a regular thing now, and it's the wet cake that confuses me more than anything.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

you should be waiting at least a week (10+days for some beans) after the roasting date anyway to allow the beans to degas.

in some instances have you been using the beans just days after roasting?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi there . Bit more info is possible . What machine and grinder are you using ? How much coffee has gone through the grinder .

Is there a massive difference in taste bitter or sour .

Re beans freshness , something a week past roast date should be fine . Different beans / blends will last longer past roast date . For example londinium and rave response best at 10-14 days past roast some other SO. Will have a shorter window in taste.

Plus humidity and age of beans will mean the grind needs changing to get the same extractions.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

When was the last time you descaled?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Milanski said:


> When was the last time you descaled?


Good call descale and backflush ( depending on machine )


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Sorry but every coffee will usually need a different grind setting, albeit small it will make a huge difference in shot success. Coffees have differing density and will sit / higher lower in the basket for a given weight (probably why sloppy puck - denser coffee)


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> you should be waiting at least a week (10+days for some beans) after the roasting date anyway to allow the beans to degas.
> 
> in some instances have you been using the beans just days after roasting?


It seems quite the opposite actually - the super fresh beans seemed to give the best coffee. I assumed 7 day old beans wouldn't have such a negative impact, but since it's the only difference I'm aware of I thought I'd ask.


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Sorry but every coffee will usually need a different grind setting, albeit small it will make a huge difference in shot success. Coffees have differing density and will sit / higher lower in the basket for a given weight (probably why sloppy puck - denser coffee)


I'm using the same beans I always use - Janszoon from Artisan Roast in Glasgow. I tried a lot of different beans when I first got the machine and settled for these as (at that time) they were perfect!


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Milanski said:


> When was the last time you descaled?


I never have! My wife won't let me buy anything to descale as she claims we don't need it in Glasgow









Will that actually cause these symptoms?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

The descaling and backflushing is an important consideration.

I had the same problem a couple of months after I started, couldn't figure it out until someone told me to descale and hey presto! Flavour and everything else back to normal.


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Thanks for the responses btw.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

...it's not just about scale if you are in a soft water area. Deposits of stale coffee and oils build up on the shower screen and block behind it and go rancid.

You are then pouring fresh coffee through rancid gunk.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

...at least remove the shower screen and disperson block and give them a good clean. See if that makes any difference.

If not, you've at least removed one possibility and narrowed the problem down.


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Milanski said:


> ...it's not just about scale if you are in a soft water area. Deposits of stale coffee and oils build up on the shower screen and block behind it and go rancid.
> 
> You are then pouring fresh coffee through rancid gunk.


I'll tell my wife!

Although I do regularly dismantle and clean everything.


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

I used unfiltered water mostly for 8years in Glasgow when I had my Classic and never had problem re scale so wouldn't worry about it here. Backflushing though, yes!

Definitely unscrew and give the shower screen a scrub or a soak in Puly Caff or similar.

What amount of coffee in what size basket? The odd time my wife tries making her own and puts in what she thinks is enough (but clearly isn't!) I see the same as you describe...


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

michaelg said:


> I used unfiltered water mostly for 8years in Glasgow when I had my Classic and never had problem re scale so wouldn't worry about it here. Backflushing though, yes!
> 
> Definitely unscrew and give the shower screen a scrub or a soak in Puly Caff or similar.
> 
> What amount of coffee in what size basket? The odd time my wife tries making her own and puts in what she thinks is enough (but clearly isn't!) I see the same as you describe...


12g of coffee in (I believe) 58mm basket. The coffee still drips through nicely - I don't see any difference there.

I'll try descaling and backflushing for now. If that doesn't help I guess I'll have to start experimenting again!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

12g isn't enough in a double l would be well weak !


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> 12g isn't enough in a double l would be well weak !


It's actually not. I'm pouring 30 ml of coffee or so - what would you suggest? (bearing in mind I've tried a zillion combinations of grind and quantity to come up with something that until recently gave me my perfect espresso)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Al Kent said:


> It's actually not. I'm pouring 30 ml of coffee or so - what would you suggest? (bearing in mind I've tried a zillion combinations of grind and quantity to come up with something that until recently gave me my perfect espresso)


Sorry apologies ,for my taste buds it would be week. Dosing and taste are all about preference but I would suggest that a double basket would suit better a dose of 16 g aiming for an extraction in weight of 24-26g . I don't measure by volume sorry. In all honesty with a bean dialled in I pull the shot by when it blondes and then adjust by taste. I start the dialling in by extraction and weights though


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Suprised you ever had a dry puck with only 12g in a double basket!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Yep agreed, increase the dose to 14-16g. Let us know how you get on


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Al Kent said:


> I'm using the same beans I always use - Janszoon from Artisan Roast in Glasgow. I tried a lot of different beans when I first got the machine and settled for these as (at that time) they were perfect!


Blends rarely stay the same beans , especially if year round . The greens age throughout the year also


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Al Kent said:


> I'm using the same beans I always use - Janszoon from Artisan Roast in Glasgow. I tried a lot of different beans when I first got the machine and settled for these as (at that time) they were perfect!


Are you Al Kent the DJ?


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Are you Al Kent the DJ?


Yes, that's me..


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Right, I'm up to 15g, but loosened the grinder off a little as the initial reason for 12g was because I was finding the water couldn't get through any more than that. I need to find the right setting again though because the water came through way too fast this time. Surprisingly, the crema was better though.

The problem with the hand grinder is there's no settings as such, just a wee dooda that turns freely so requires a lot of trial and error. Trying to convince my wife that a coffee grinder is essential is quite difficult though when a jar of nescafe is about 3 quid


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Al Kent said:


> Yes, that's me..


Got any mixes online? Always used to see the mdd posters when lived in Glasgow but never made it along. Think you had a night in the big joint around the last time I did something there too (2007)


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Got any mixes online? Always used to see the mdd posters when lived in Glasgow but never made it along. Think you had a night in the big joint around the last time I did something there too (2007)


Sorry I didn't get back on over the weekend, tried to reply on Friday but the site was obviously under attack. Check alkent.co.uk and soundcloud.com/milliondollardisco.com

Yeah, used to do nights in the big joint. Had some great parties but it was becoming too hit & miss out there in the suburbs!

Back to the coffee - I upped it to 16g which I thought was packing too much in, tightened the grinder slightly too. Was better, but the force needed to get the portafilter seated is going to end up breaking the handle off. So I'm back down to 15g with another little tighten on the grinder. I'd say it's there now.

Thanks for all the comments and advice!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The scales you are using to measure do they go to 0.1g or nearest whole gram only? And your measuring the weight of coffee ground into bakset? As opposed to put into grinder?


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## Al Kent (Aug 23, 2012)

Nearest gram.. I'm not that anal yet! And yes, ground coffee, not beans.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok get skne cheap jewellery scales that go to the nearest 0.1 g. Dosing within 1gram tolerances isnt accurate enough.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Your 16 gram does could be 16.4 or 15.6, and that's if the scales are rounding things up and down logically .

This could choke or not choke your machine, will Changes the time of your extraction and how it tastes also and the ability to lock or block your portafilter into the group .

Consistent dosing really is key .


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