# What about this one- Mahlkonig Vario



## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Have been still looking around at grinders and this one appears to be highly rated as well. Looked at the spec and it has 54mm ceramic plates, has either a container or portafilter option. Also various other little handy little things and the adjustment settings seem plentiful. It also ejects more of the grounds than some others which leave quite a bit left to go stale. My original choice (Rocky Doserless) is something of a nightmare from what I can gather, so I think that one is off the list. Ideally I really do want a new grinder rather than a reconditioned, pre owned one. I have read the blurb and with it being a relatively newly developed grinder as well. Also with it being German made I am assuming that it will be bombproof build quality. A bit more than I originally wanted to pay, but it appears to be another one to add to the list. Has anyone else had experience of it?????

Thanks.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

At what price? New ? Used? Which model forte?


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I have seen it here, new http://www.coffeeomega.co.uk/Mahlkonig%20Vario Price is alot cheaper than I have seen anywhere else.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Has a Vario - tidy little grinder with small footprint. Does a decent job - had mine set up as a pour over grinder (fitted with steel burrs) and was pleased with the results. Have a look on the Bella Barista website. There's a review of several grinders. Mignon came out on top in its class.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

m4lcs67 said:


> I have seen it here, new http://www.coffeeomega.co.uk/Mahlkonig%20Vario Price is alot cheaper than I have seen anywhere else.


Bear in mind that price is excluding VAT, so your looking at £360

I haven't used one for espresso. Glenn has a Vario variant not sure which one as does Aaron i think? Systemic Kid had a variant also for espresso for a while . Im really not sure if they are the same models you are looking at there.

Im sure people with some experience of using them and having owned one will pop up and let you know how they got on .

I really wouldn't shy away from a good pre owned grinder. A lot of us have them, and something like a good reconditioned Mazzer is bomb proof and will last for years.


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I have seen it here, new http://www.myespresso.co.uk/product.php/529/mahlkonig-vario-home.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

m4lcs67 said:


> I have seen it here, new http://www.coffeeomega.co.uk/Mahlkonig%20Vario Price is alot cheaper than I have seen anywhere else.


That's EX vat.

I paid £350 for mine (inc vat) a couple of years ago. It's a tidy little grinder with a small footprint. Retention is minimal. Adjustment is easy. It tends to clump a little bit on darker roasts, but as I like light roasts it isn't an issue for me generally. Never mad much of a static issue. I do feel I could get a bit more out of the coffee, but that would require an EK43 or an HGONE.

As TSK says consider the Mignon too.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

m4lcs67 said:


> I have seen it here, new http://www.myespresso.co.uk/product.php/529/mahlkonig-vario-home.


That's a good price.

There is actually a new model out now, with a fully touchscreen display which might be why the older model is slightly cheaper.

Also note it's the same grinder as the Baratza Vario in USA. I'm not sure if it's produced by Mahlkönig under license here or just rebadged.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The newer forte model is coming in at like £800-900 ish , not such great value


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> The newer forte model is coming in at like £800-900 ish , not such great value


Is that the touchscreen one?

Assuming the burr's and build are the same as the Vario, ouch. Far to much for what it is.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

You'd be so much better off with a used commercial grinder for less price! The difference in the cup will be night and day.


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## Atilla (Mar 31, 2014)

I've extensively used the Vario and I have to say that it is top notch. Grind continuity is great, there are tons and tons of adjustments, pre-programmable, the blades are Mahlkonig (duh) and you can pick them up for way less than £150 these days.

The only real downside I have with them is that unless you are constantly watching whilst it grinds, you can end up with grounds spilling all over the place, making one hell of a mess.

For home use, I'd be quite happy with one if it was all available. That said, there are other, better grinders out there, but will *you* really notice the difference at home?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ask yourself one question. If you had to be hit over the head with a Vario or aMignon, which one would you choose? The Vario is made of plastic and everyone has always said how will it cope in the long run? The Mignon will be around for years and as far as I know has never had any factory or design issues unlike the Vario.

If I was in the market I can be totally honest and say I would not be buying a Vario. Yes, I have had several of them and several Mignons and loads of other things so my bias is built on experience


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## Atilla (Mar 31, 2014)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be getting another one, but for £150 (ish),the Vario isn't bad. The Mignon is a great little grinder which definitely trumps the Mahl, but for £250+ it is a bit ugly, you have to admit.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Atilla said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be getting another one, but for £150 (ish),the Vario isn't bad. The Mignon is a great little grinder which definitely trumps the Mahl, but for £250+ it is a bit ugly, you have to admit.


£150-ish for a Vario where on earth are you finding them at that price, there is an Indonesian website that appears to be a scam site that may advertise them cheaply but thats about it, expect to pay around £360 for a new one. Given the issues with grind consistency and levers slipping which are well documented both here and on Home Barista I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole. An ex commercial grinder or even a new Mazzer Mini doser which one forum sponsor was offering for £385 I think would be far far better.

Your question of will you notice the difference at home, well the answer is hell yeah. I went from a Gaggia Classic plus MC2 to a Brasilia RR55-OD 64mm burr ex commercial grinder and it made a world of difference in the cup, and did a fine job with the Sage DB too and I paid under £200 for it from Gumtree, it needed a good going over and a deep clean but had pulled around 3.2k shots only by the time it went last week and I upgraded to a Eureka Mythos, with 75mm titanium burrs, which has once again lifted the standard of my coffee and opened up new flavour profiles I have never even found at home before now.

Commercial grinders are designed to hammer out shot after shot day after fay in a cafe or coffee shop, so once refurbed and serviced, and possibly a new set of burrs they will last you, assuming typical home use of maybe 3-4 doubles per day and more at the weekend, until you decide to upgrade and even then will have more life left in them than you could manage in many many years at home. You only need to look to that fact that Mazzers in particular last for years in a commercial environment, rather than some lump of plastic german made or not and I'm not even sure if the Home Vario is made in Germany even. At the end of the day particularly at the starter end of the market the better the grinder the better your coffee will be and the easier to use as well, in fact at that level the grinder is far more important than the machine.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Any Vario for sub £150 will be in poor shape.

New cost is £350 delivered inc VAT, nobody would take a £200 loss selling it on!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

That's a cheap price .......( 13 )


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I have been reading more about the different grinders that are out there and while I was initially sold on the Vario I have been reading more about the inconsistent grinding issues that come with it.

I had also considered the Mignon and while I initially slated it because of it's looks, it is actually beginning to grow on me. Also from what people have said it knocks spots of the Vario from a grinding point of view and that is ultimately what matters. The Vario could be the prettiest grinder in the world, but if it has issues with the quality of it's grind then it isn't doing what it should and therefore isn't really fit for purpose. Does the Mignon have ceramic burrs? I have watched a couple of Youtube videos about it and it is beginning to grow on me.

I haven't finally made a decision one way or another, but reading all the different comments and opinions all bets are off right now. Hell. I even broke the news to my wife yesterday that I wanted to spend £320 on a coffee grinder. I bet you can gather her response. I did my best, we need to get a good grinder sales pitch to her. It is still a work in progress. I'll keep on at her. If I bug her enough she will hopefully concede. I think she was thinking that you can get a crappy £20 blade grinder from Argos and to get great results with it. Just got to look at prices of the Mignon and also colours. If I go for it I would want a stainless steel one to go with my Gaggia Classic.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I personally wouldn't buy a Vario, having used a Mignon, Vario, Mazzer Mini, Mazzer Mini E, Rossi RR45, Mazor Major, Fiorenzato thing....etc..

The vario in my opinion is over priced, doesn't grind that well and not long lasting. I am amazed that people still buy it....if you look on coffee geek there's 100s and 100s of posts about how good they are with their customer service and sending out spares and fixing problems. How even the plastic gears stripping and the tooth belt being nadgered if it hits something hard is a benefit (even though it requires grinder disassembly). Funny enough I think they may have designed out that "benefit". Go look and see how good Mazzers customer service is, or the customer service for the Eureka....you won't find anything, because in the main these grinders simply don't go wrong.

I reviewed the Vario along with a number of other grinders (check on the BB site), many of the things I was concerned about on the Vario) in the review came to pass. The things the vario does do, it's really quiet, very neat and grinds well into the portafilter....but for me that's it.


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## EWCC (Mar 27, 2014)

Hi DavecUK, how do you rate the Mazzer Mini E? I understand it has the same blade size as the SJ, and is on demand. Would you pick it over the Mini or SJ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The mini e is a static beast, the mini doser is a beer grinder even though it has smaller burrs and the sj doser is better still, you have to go up to major in the mazer grinders to get great delivery from the od grinders


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh ps I have owned and tested most of the grinders out there


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

Any thoughts on the Bezzerra BB05 as a compact option? http://casabarista.com/espresso-equipment/coffee-grinders/bezzera-bb005/


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## EWCC (Mar 27, 2014)

Of course, Coffeechap. Many thanks for the info


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

EWCC said:


> Hi DavecUK, how do you rate the Mazzer Mini E? I understand it has the same blade size as the SJ, and is on demand. Would you pick it over the Mini or SJ?


Well I've always liked the Mini E and I prefer it to the SJ and the Mini, having owned a mini and used a SJ. You have to be very careful with Mazzers though as they don't grind as well without genuine Mazzer burrs in the. Aftermarket burrs do not work as well. SJ burrs in a mini E don't work well either, they are both 64mm, but the bean feed speed is much faster through the SJ burrs and the smaller motor of the Mini E would not appreciate this. My personal belief, is that a SJ don't grind quite as well as a Mini E, it's faster sure, but I don't think the coffee tastes as good. i am sure others will disagree.

The mini E with short hopper also looks sensible in a home kitchen. Equally though, for a lot less money, the Eureka gives you almost the same grind quality. It's not as robust as a Mazzer perhaps, the grind adjustment mechanism is different...but it still represents excellent value for money, especially at the prices I've seen here on the forum.

That said a good used Mini, SJ or Eureka etc.. all with genuine new burrs will represent fantastic value as well....it doesn't have to be new.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

So what about the static on the Mini w?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

This is very interesting as I gave found the grind quality of the sj better than the mini e! Agree that if you are buying new I would opt for the eureka much more grinder for your money but £300 will get you a used mini e if look hard enough and a pristine dosered Mini


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I think everyone is aware of my feelings on the Mini-e. I still shudder at the thought


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> So what about the static on the Mini w?


I presume you mean the Mini?

I don't have a problem with it....removed the stupid grid years ago, didn't seem to do any harm and eliminates the grind retention. I use a portafilter ring, sits above the counter on the windows sill, almost no mess at all.

As for you feelings on the SJ...I can't comment either way, it's your perception....it's like Aftermarket vs Genuine burrs for Mazzers, a lot of people don't agree, I think they're wrong and too many places sell aftermarket burrs. My opinion and unfortunately i think a lot of people with used grinder end up unknowingly buying aftermarket rather than genuine burrs.

I never get too hung up about grind. There's shite and then there's decent grinders, then there's esoterica. how much more you get out of the esoterica, I don't really know, I have not been able to taste a level of difference that would make me part with the money. It's like the HG1 thing, liked the idea, saw a video of one being used, bolted to counter, slow, water misting the beans etc.. and though, what a faff and immediately lost any desire I might have felt to even try one.

However, I don't sell them, I don't design them, I don't repair them and I have only owned about 6 different grinders, used plenty though....so my opinion might be worthless!


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

So genuine burrs are better than aftermarket? Is this a purely quality/sharpness reason or more complimicated?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I find this very interesting as your reviews of machines and their pitfalls, plus the quality that a machine gives in the cup are compelling reading, yet you are poo pooing the value of a top end grinder, I have found the difference in top end grind quality over mediocre grind quality ( Mazzer mini level) quite amazing in the cup, the better the grind consistency and quality the better the end result, however it is a world if diminishing returns. It is like comparing a rancilio silvia to the quick mill Verona!

I am in total agreement of genuine burrs, the Mazzer burrs produce a better grind quality than the aftermarket ones as do genuine mahlkonig burrs.


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

The mazzer mini is mediocre grind quality? I thought it was a good 'un?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

frasermade said:


> The mazzer mini is mediocre grind quality? I thought it was a good 'un?


In comparison to a high end grinder like a K10 or a Mythos or even at more affordable price a Cimbali Magnum with 75mm burrs then yes it's mediocre, in comparison with a Mignon, or a Vario it's good.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's all relative. The Mini is a solid grinder, will perform well domestically and is good value for money second hand. Remember when people talk about mediocre there's a bunch of people on here who have dropped (or are about to drop) £1800 on EK43s...


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mini is fab grind quality in its price range, as davec will attest to as he has done a comprehensive evaluation of the mini vs mignon, vs vario and two ascaso grinders, in which it faired very well indeed. Putting it into perspective, I say mediocre when I compare it to my ek43 or versalab, both at the £2000 end of the market,


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> . Remember when people talk about mediocre there's a bunch of people on here who have dropped (or are about to drop) £1800 on EK43s...


Crazy fools..........


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The Mini-e isnt cheap! A 2nd hand grinder for the price can get you something amazing


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> It's all relative. T Remember when people talk about mediocre there's a bunch of people on here who have dropped (or are about to drop) £1800 on EK43s...


Which idiots are you talking about then?


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> It's all relative. The Mini is a solid grinder, will perform well domestically and is good value for money second hand. Remember when people talk about mediocre there's a bunch of people on here who have dropped (or are about to drop) £1800 on EK43s...





ronsil said:


> Which idiots are you talking about then?


Who said anything about idiots?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Couldn't possibly say, cough cough


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Mini is fab grind quality in its price range, as davec will attest to as he has done a comprehensive evaluation of the mini vs mignon, vs vario and two ascaso grinders, in which it faired very well indeed. Putting it into perspective, I say mediocre when I compare it to my ek43 or versalab, both at the £2000 end of the market,


Are you all getting these £2k grinders for home use?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Of course wouldn't want to sully these beautiful grinders in a commercial environment


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I find this very interesting as your reviews of machines and their pitfalls, plus the quality that a machine gives in the cup are compelling reading, yet you are poo pooing the value of a top end grinder, I have found the difference in top end grind quality over mediocre grind quality ( Mazzer mini level) quite amazing in the cup, the better the grind consistency and quality the better the end result, however it is a world if diminishing returns. It is like comparing a rancilio silvia to the quick mill Verona!
> 
> I am in total agreement of genuine burrs, the Mazzer burrs produce a better grind quality than the aftermarket ones as do genuine mahlkonig burrs.


I don't believe I have ever been "poo pooing the value of a top end grinder" on this forum. I have only spoken about my own personal requirements and what I would spend for what I can taste. I write reviews for stuff I have directly tested. I did a grinder review with blind taste testing, plus the mechanicals. However that review is only valid for those grinders I tested and similar grinders that use the same internals. The sad fact of it is, I would have to taste a lot of difference in the cup to want to shell out the funds to change, as I said before, I have not tasted the sort of difference that would make me personally want to part with the cash, this doesn't mean to say other people won't or certain machines won't require it.

The Vesuvius I'm currently using has pressure profiling.....I'm still experimenting with pump profiles and want to experiment with pump acceleration parameters as well. It's temperature stability and dual boiler configuration are nothing remarkable, same as a Duetto or a Verona, but the pressure profiling is adding another dimension, one I'm still exploring and it's uniquely different to that of a GS3 with the Strada EP mod..and is more akin to the proper La Strada EP. Pressure profiling is a bigger step up than HX to Dual boiler or cheap DB to expensive DB.

Now at some point, I *might *run into grinder limitations, but I won't be aware of them, because I don't have a much more expensive grinder to find out....the reason I'm thinking like this is specifically because of pressure profiling.:

I can run a pressure profile that allows for 2 bar to be applied for 8 seconds and a proper 2 bar, not some flow restricted through a needle valve full pump pressure 2 bar, but a real dynamic 2 bar. fortuitously at a flow rate that is right (I suspect serendipity not the design of the FG300 pump system). Then I can ramp the pressure to 9 bar (I want to experiment next with the speed of the ramp), and then down to 8, then 7 then 5 bar to finish. I'm finding that I can grind at a level that would choke the machine if I hit it with 9 bar straight away....also rather than try to channel puck, integrity is maintained, and by lowering the pressure through the shot, the extraction profile is way different, because it doesn't start to get all the undesirables later on in the extraction and it hangs together better. now some of these ideas I got from watching some work done on the Full La Strada EP (which uses essentially the same system, but costs 14K).

Possible a more expensive grinder will bring even more out of the coffee and the Vesuvius, so if forum member wants to lend me one over a period of weeks I would be happy to report back to the forum as to whether I noticed any improvement or not, both in quality or consistency.

The Mini E is in the reasonable price range of most people and all my machine tests are against this sort of mid reference grinder for a very good reason. I think if i did my machine tests using an £1800 grinder, the results *might* not be as representative as those of the majority of potential owners will be able to achieve. Always remember when looking at my reviews, they are written for the consumers benefit, not the retailer, they are copy protected and the retailer can't change them, they only choose whether to publish or not....I choose whether I review something or not!

It seems like grinders are an emotive issue....

P.S. I strongly suspect that with say a Sylvia or other cheap machines or even relatively expensive HX machines...a Mazzer Mini E vs a £1800 grinder your going to notice no major difference in the cup at all. The differences probably become more noticeable once you eliminate many other variables e.g. Move to Dual boiler machines.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I have tried out this theory and the difference in the cup using a gaggia classic and three grinders was very noticeable, I used a Mazzer Mini, a Mazzer royal and a k10 fresh all on the same entry level machine and all with different flavour profiles, the Miji did a great job, but the royal with original burrs, brought outing more from the beans and finally another depth was achieved with the k10, all different grinders but all producing different results. Perhaps you can come up to the grind off 2 when I finally run it and evaluate these yourself (blind). I would challenge most people jot to notice the difference between an entry level grinder and a £1000 grinder in the cup.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I have tried out this theory and the difference in the cup using a gaggia classic and three grinders was very noticeable, I used a Mazzer Mini, a Mazzer royal and a k10 fresh all on the same entry level machine and all with different flavour profiles, the Miji did a great job, but the royal with original burrs, brought outing more from the beans and finally another depth was achieved with the k10, all different grinders but all producing different results. Perhaps you can come up to the grind off 2 when I finally run it and evaluate these yourself (blind). I would challenge most people jot to notice the difference between an entry level grinder and a £1000 grinder in the cup.


I do find that remarkable considering how inconsistent a Gaggia Classic is and I could never advise anyone with a Gaggia Classic to buy a £1000 grinder...never. However if people can clearly taste significant improvements in the drink between the grinders you mention when pulled on a Gaggia Classic then I am happy to stand corrected. I don't know how they can, but if they can on a consistent basis under a proper controlled test....then I can't dispute it.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Its quite simple - different grinders produce different grind quality - that's measurable differences

http://mattperger.com/The-EK43-Part-Two/.UzxZ8ahdU0M


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I did a similar test on a hx and a dual boiler, heavenly and expobar, and found similar results. The play on the classic wre pulled at the same point each time when temp surfing, which I agree is not ideal but the differences were there, I also would not advise someone buying a £1000 grinder for the classic, but then I couldn't be bothered with pidding one either.

I have noticed vast differences from cheaper grinders on the L1 compared to top end grinders though.

And are grinders an emotive subject? Just depends whose buttons you push! Most subjects are both subjective and I motive on here.....


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I use a Classic on holiday & away from home. I keep a simple Gaggia Grinder to travel with it.

Last September after returning from using the Gaggia combo for 3 weeks, just to see what happens,I used the Classic for a few days grinding on the Versalab.

I got some results as good as on the La Spaz, very different to using the Gaggia grinder. The problem comes with lack of control & repeatability on the Classic.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I have tried out this theory and the difference in the cup using a gaggia classic and three grinders was very noticeable, I used a Mazzer Mini, a Mazzer royal and a k10 fresh all on the same entry level machine and all with different flavour profiles, the Miji did a great job, but the royal with original burrs, brought outing more from the beans and finally another depth was achieved with the k10, all different grinders but all producing different results. Perhaps you can come up to the grind off 2 when I finally run it and evaluate these yourself (blind). I would challenge most people jot to notice the difference between an entry level grinder and a £1000 grinder in the cup.


OK, I'm bloody negotiating for a K10 fresh...dammit. I don't even know where in the Kitchen I'm going to put it, but at least I will see if I can get even more out of the pressure profiling Vesuvius I have on test.

Damm you coffeechap....you are the evil one....I was all happy with my Mazzer, which I will still have to keep for testing machines and the fact it was a present, so holds sentimental value.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Be carefull of the k10 as it retains quite a lot of coffee IRO 20grams, the versalab is zero retention, the ek43 is also zero retention the mythos is 1 gram of retention, hope this helps, oh and of course the faff that is the hg1 is zero retention


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

I can vouch for the Mythos, decided on using it at the shop where the benefits of OD dosing is far better used in a working environment paired with the Cherub! Still looking for an OD at home to if one comes along ? Coffeechap ! Got anything to tempt me with ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Soll said:


> I can vouch for the Mythos, decided on using it at the shop where the benefits of OD dosing is far better used in a working environment paired with the Cherub! Still looking for an OD at home to if one comes along ? Coffeechap ! Got anything to tempt me with ?


How about a k30!!!


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> OK, I'm bloody negotiating for a K10 fresh...dammit. I don't even know where in the Kitchen I'm going to put it, but at least I will see if I can get even more out of the pressure profiling Vesuvius I have on test.
> 
> Damm you coffeechap....you are the evil one....I was all happy with my Mazzer, which I will still have to keep for testing machines and the fact it was a present, so holds sentimental value.


Dave,

Shouldn't you consider also the EK43 since it is similarly priced?


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Hmm ! Don't like the look of them to be honest! If a used Kony or Robur comes along


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Just get another Mythos Soll


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Just get another Mythos Soll


I think that's staying at work for good ! Well, according to my wife anyway, the kitchen does look better without it though. Which ever grinder I choose it will be OD


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