# Starbucks launches specialized cafe



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

http://dailycoffeenews.com/2014/09/05/starbucks-unveils-new-dont-call-it-third-wave-concept-plans-seattle-roastery-opening/


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## TonyW (Jul 17, 2012)

Interesting. At the risk of revealing myself to be the coffee numpty that I was, I got this email from Costa yesterday:

"We're sorry we haven't seen you for a little while, but we have something exciting that's definitely worth popping back for - a new taste in coffee.*

It's named Old Paradise Street Limited Roast No. 3 after our London roastery and it's the first in a series of limited edition coffees born from our 43 years of coffee expertise.

It's a first for us, so we'd love to know what you think. The rest of the nation will have to wait for another week to try it, but if you ask your barista for any coffee made with Old Paradise Street this week, they'll give you a sneak preview. It's 20p more because it's a special limited edition, but we hope you'll agree it's worth it."


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I wonder if there will be a queue.........possibly of disgruntled Lavazza owners, scared that at last a coffee might replace them at the bottom of the list


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Chortle........!


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## Kman10 (Sep 3, 2014)

I tried it yesterday, was a nice coffee


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Kman10 said:


> I tried it yesterday, was a nice coffee


Get out.

I kid, obviously, to be honest if any of the big chains actually invested money is proper baristas who were able to dial in the coffee and pull a decent shot then there is no reason they couldn't make a nice cuppa. The problem is that almost invariably, and especially over time, the corporate structure of cost cutting and top-down management don't allow for the development of true skill, something required for great coffee.


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## julesee (Aug 12, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> Get out.
> 
> I kid, obviously, to be honest if any of the big chains actually invested money is proper baristas who were able to dial in the coffee and pull a decent shot then there is no reason they couldn't make a nice cuppa. The problem is that almost invariably, and especially over time, the corporate structure of cost cutting and top-down management don't allow for the development of true skill, something required for great coffee.


Its pretty amazing that great coffee has been available in niche cafes in the world's biggest cities for many years now and yet the likes of Starbucks and Costa havent progressed (at least so far). Suspect the main constraint is trained barristas... Takes too long to perfect the coffee making process and would think there is high turnover behind the counters of the big chains. Plus i would also think they do not want to pay up according to people's coffee making skills. Having said that i find the flavour of starbucks coffee dreadful in the UK so perhaps it's the beans too (which is unforgiveable really).

Anyway we will see - perfectly possible that Starbucks and Costa have realised there is a big market out there for top notch coffee.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

There's a big market out there for coffee at least. That's why they exist. 'Second most popular drink after water.'

The majority of their profits are generated from all the other junk they put in with the coffee and any leaning towards towards coffee buzzwords like 'single origin' etc is all just marketing to make them appear 'on trend'.

Has anyone tasted a Starbuck's single origin espresso? Is it any better than the regular offering?


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

Milanski said:


> Has anyone tasted a Starbuck's single origin espresso? Is it any better than the regular offering?


That's the biggie for me, and to be perfectly honest I really can't be bothered to go on a quest to find out! Not saying I'll never go in one if that's the way the day pans out, but I'm more likely to keep looking at those among the independents where they seem to care about each cup they serve. Oh, that and they pay their taxes!

I'm afraid Starbucks still ranks No.1 in my 'Worst Ever Cup Of Coffee' list. :-/


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I think you should say you'll never go in one!

If you don't like the fact that they don't pay their taxes and they rank as 'Worst Ever Cup of Coffee' then why would you possibly give them one more pound of your hard-earned?

If you appreciate the fact that independents care about each cup and you care that they pay their taxes then speak with your feet.

Every cup sold makes a difference, so if everyone with similar experiences also never went into a Starbuck's again then we'd have better coffee globally (and more fairly paid farmers/pickers).

...I'm just sayin'


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

Milanski said:


> I think you should say you'll never go in one!
> 
> If you don't like the fact that they don't pay their taxes and they rank as 'Worst Ever Cup of Coffee' then why would you possibly give them one more pound of your hard-earned?
> 
> ...


Yup, can't disagree with that!


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## 7877 (Aug 14, 2014)

The thing that bothers me most about this is that it's the big corporate machine trying to squash the little guys again.

i've been in th US recently and Starbucks seemed to sit somewhere in the middle of the street vendors and the independent coffee shop/roasters.....in general both of those were doing their best to find a niche and serve a quality cup of coffee at a reasonable price and in my opinion had a way better product. I think Starbucks realise that and are therefore trying to encroach on both spaces. Personally whether they do a good job of it or not is irrelevant to me, I just can't bring myself to support "the man" in this instance. Not saying I never drink Starbucks, but given a choice I won't.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Sibling Chris said:


> The thing that bothers me most about this is that it's the big corporate machine trying to squash the little guys again.
> 
> i've been in th US recently and Starbucks seemed to sit somewhere in the middle of the street vendors and the independent coffee shop/roasters.....in general both of those were doing their best to find a niche and serve a quality cup of coffee at a reasonable price and in my opinion had a way better product. I think Starbucks realise that and are therefore trying to encroach on both spaces. Personally whether they do a good job of it or not is irrelevant to me, I just can't bring myself to support "the man" in this instance. Not saying I never drink Starbucks, but given a choice I won't.


I don't think they are, people who used to go to starbucks/costa will continue to go there, people who either seek out a decent speciality coffeeshop or already have one as their regular will continue going to them. I doubt starbucks is fooling anyone who usually goes independent by saying they do single origin now









I notice more and more now people who drink in the local independents here will ask for recommendations if they're going to another city / country now as well rather than just accept the nearest chain for coffee.

It really is 2 different markets.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Sibling Chris said:


> ...Not saying I never drink Starbucks, but given a choice I won't.


I think you should say you don't drink Starbucks!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

aaronb said:


> I doubt starbucks is fooling anyone who usually goes independent by saying they do single origin now


No, but by using the buzzwords they are basically preventing the zombie consumer from trying 'proper' single origin because in their minds they have tried it (and it still tastes like shit!).



aaronb said:


> It really is 2 different markets.


There will always be people that like cream, syrups and plenty of gumpf in their coffee that's true. Maybe I'm an idealist, but I also think (and I use myself as an example here) that if people are exposed to 'proper coffee' they would love it and never go back.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Milanski said:


> ..., if people are exposed to 'proper coffee' they would love it and never go back.


I keep trying to 'turn' people when they visit me, starting with a great flat white and edging them to a sweet espresso. You get done terrific compliments but they all go back to Costa the next day. Assuming they now know good coffee is possible, I don't think they know where to get it from. Dare I say it, they 'trust' Costa more than an independent.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

In this day of the internet I can only describe this behaviour as lazy, or stupid... or both!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Sorry Obnic, I realise I've just potentially called your friends/family both stupid and lazy! :exit:Not my intention to offend.

I hope you understand that I was generalising...


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Milanski said:


> Sorry Obnic, I realise I've just potentially called your friends/family both stupid and lazy!.


I've called them worse.

I posted because I'm frustrated. They see Costa as a good enough drink that they like/don't dislike. It's not that they don't know coffee can be better. It's that they view Costa as a non-risk venture, where an independent might incur some risk.

There's something here about independents not differentiating themselves.

How many independents are glorified sandwich shops serving under-extracted coffee* rather than true quality coffee ventures? The latter are still rare in my experience so 'not costa' is a risk even if you know a decent espresso.

*my worst ever experience was a place that had obviously been sold every variety of bean by their roaster but had no understanding of freshness or extraction technique. They served a Monsooned Malabar with great pride. The ancient beans were ground to order in a blade grinder, and the resulting extraction filled a teacup. Bleugh!


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Out of all the big chains, if I was pushed I would choose Costa over anyone else, however there is a great independent in my town and given the choice I would go there every time. I know them personally and they know me. I also get beans from them occasionally for use with my own set-up. It amazes me that the large chains haven't raised their game as most people are becoming more discerning these days and won't put up with the rubbish coffee anymore.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

m4lcs67 said:


> Out of all the big chains, if I was pushed I would choose Costa over anyone else, however there is a great independent in my town and given the choice I would go there every time. I know them personally and they know me. I also get beans from them occasionally for use with my own set-up. *It amazes me that the large chains haven't raised their game as most people are becoming more discerning these days and won't put up with the rubbish coffee anymore*.


I think you are wrong....

MOST people aren't becoming more discerning... Obviously quite a few are but I would guess a tiny minority.

and many, many people will put up with any old sh*te...

This isn't just in the field of Coffee.....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Who cares...it is unlikely I will be trying this new roast or visiting a Starbucks again or a Costa.

Starbucks profits drops. They need to come up with a credible " innovation " to convince their share holders and franchisees that they are cutting edge and tackling the competition. If it makes em money they ll stick with it, if it doesn't they won't.....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Am I missing something here? Article burbles about Starbucks' Seattle museum??? roastery. How are they going to supply the beans to outlets around the globe to be served within the beans' optimum quality window? Maybe in parts of America but the rest will get beans that are passed their best by date which kind of defeats the whole objective?


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

It could also be that most people see the little independent as just a typical British caff.. bog standard everything. Your big name American setup, however, now they KNOW how to make good coffee, don't they? That must be the taste.

Isn't marketing brilliant?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

hubrad said:


> Isn't marketing brilliant?


Devil's disciples - BURN THEM!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2014)

The devils of marketing in coffee's eyes....

The green mermaid!!!!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Obnic said:


> It's not that they don't know coffee can be better. It's that they view Costa as a non-risk venture, where an independent might incur some risk.


Risk vs predictability. Risk as a necessary 'evil' in order to hope for return. Fact as proven in the financial sector, I think this applies to food and drink too (in fact, I think with most things in life you only get out what you put in).

This is truly the root of 'zombie consumerism' to paraphrase another post in this thread. It is also the reason why MuckDonald's sells so many round pieces of cardboard between two pieces of bath sponge with a gherkin, square of yellow plastic and some ketchup. There is a staggeringly high proportion of people out there who really do not care what they put in their mouth as long as its A) predictable and B) quick. Price doesn't really even come into it as it is actually possible to get a perfectly decent beef burger in bread that doesn't evaporate when you bite it for not much more money. It really is a case of just wanting to get something you know exactly how it will taste without having to bother yourself seeking out a better-tasting alternative.

In slight defence of Costa, had it not been for the rise of this kind of coffee shop on the high street, I reckon there would still be loads of cafés whose idea of coffee was a spoonful of Notcafé and some hot water, splash of cold milk optional. That's what I grew up on out of sheer lack of choice/ignorance until the likes of Costa. In fact that's why I only ever drank tea for most of my life. But having experienced espresso and espresso-based drinks I then 'got' coffee and started with a french press, and ultimately ended up on here, making better espresso (IMO) than the aforementioned global chain coffee outlets.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Can't deny the likes of Starbucks et al bringing awareness of coffee to more people.

However, they have proven to be unethical, tax-dodging, slop-producing behemoths so let's all be a part of their downfall by not contributing to their coffers.


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

Milanski said:


> Can't deny the likes of Starbucks et al bringing awareness of coffee to more people.
> 
> However, they have proven to be unethical, tax-dodging, slop-producing behemoths so let's all be a part of their downfall by not contributing to their coffers.


I like your rhetorical style, Milanski!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

hubrad said:


> I like your rhetorical style, Milanski!


Sick blud innit!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Milanski said:


> Can't deny the likes of Starbucks et al bringing awareness of coffee to more people.
> 
> However, they have proven to be unethical, tax-dodging, slop-producing behemoths so let's all be a part of their downfall by not contributing to their coffers.


Yup. Especially now they're predictably trying to encroach upon (read: put out of business) the activities of the independents. I watched a film once called the Corporation (was ordered to watch it by my slightly revolutionary Japanese GF of the time). It convincingly drew a parallel between a true medical psychopath or sociopath and the activities of a corporation, which, being answerable pretty much only to its shareholders, acts in whatever way will benefit it financially the most, regardless of ethics, because by definition a corporation has no true conscience. Using loopholes to avoid tax is precisely the job of their legal department. "Corporate Social Responsibility" is just a stock phrase trotted out by such directors to disguise the evil they do. Having produced many Annual Reports for companies over the years, it's seen as a flavour-of-the-month 'must have' section but no-one quite knows what to write in it. Some I've seen have been so laughable if the true consequences for the less fortunate parties wasn't so sad. Although I'm talking about water companies deliberately limiting natural water supplies in South America to "organically grow their customer base".


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

So they are only just catching on to a ten year old ideology? Ffs.


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