# Fracino Classico - Couple Questions



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Hi All

I have taken delivery of a new Fracino Classico and am excited to get myself acquainted with it, having moved on from a Rancilio Silvia machine.

I wondered to those who have some knowledge about this machine, where there are some adjustable options on this machine for pressure and temperature?

I'm battling to get a good espresso draw, having ground my beans from fresh and used the tamper as needed. But noticed the water temp out the middle spout where the espresso is made, is only around 40 degr C. I can literally put my fingers in the water and it's luke warm. I imagine that's affecting the quality and crema a lot.

Should I be priming it more or letting it heat up for longer ? Or does this require an adjustment somewhere else?

The left water dispenser spout and the steam wand are piping hot when I extract water or steam from them.

Thanks
Bernard


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

How long donyou leave it to heat up?


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Hi there

I probably wait 5 to 7 min. Have tried again this evening and draw some water through the centre dispenser about 4 times to have the element kick in and heat up. When measuring the water temps, it got to about 68 degr C. I suppose still not really where it's meant to be?


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Takes around 30 mins on their bigger machines - I'd expect about 20 on that one.

You can alter temperature slightly but give it a chance to see what its like first. Expect around 87-93c.

The boiler water needs to achieve temperature to heat the water in the thermosiphon circuit. Then the thermo cycles the water through the head.

If you can touch the head for more than 2/3 secs - its not hot enough.

👍


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Thanks a lot for that guidance. That is very helpful indeed. I may try that and just switch it on earlier and really let it warm up properly in that case. I'll try this and then measure the water and see how it has made a difference and report back here.

Would you mind me asking another question as I am *battling a bit with the Frother.* Is there a trick to the Fracino Classico frother which I know has a 4 hole wand?

It seems to heat the milk, starts frothing it or what looks like powerful foam being generated. Once I withdraw and pour it into the shot, it's flat and not foamy at all. Merely piping hot milk. Like a coffee crema type of look.

Am I using too little milk or my technique is not right? Thanks for any advice there


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

To be fair - I wouldnt even measure the temperature. To increase the temperature you have to increase the steam pressure which also increases the hot water valve water.....

Pressure gauge should read 1-1.1bar.

As for the frothing - can you take a vidio of how you are doing it?

Around half the jug is normal - just to the bottom of the spout. Wand to one side and tilted so it forces to spin the milk in the jug. Tip just in the milk. Around half the tip. Listen for high 'ticking sound' while frothing and adjust tip height to keep the sound. Once the right level of froth is there - push the tip deeper but still on a angle so milk is spinning in the jug.

So the frothing for me is 2 stage - 1st if creating the foam - 2nd is heating the milk more while mixing the milk/foam together.

Thats roughly how I do it anyways. Someone will be along to explain a lot better. Its one of those things that its better to show than explain.

They do do a 2 hole tip and pretty sure there are brands out there that do single tip that will also fit.

Hope this helps


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Wow, thanks for your kind support here. This is really helpful and I have also been reading up and looking at the technique in getting the frothing right.
I literally got it to a T on my older Rancilio Silvia. But this is obviously a more powerful and modern machine, so I am finding myself getting used to this process again.

I will certainly make a video of a shot draw and making the froth and would be delighted on any comments and guidance on perhaps where I am missing a beat.

Thanks once again


----------



## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

RancilioBru said:


> I will certainly *make a video* of a shot draw and making the froth and would be delighted on any comments and guidance on *perhaps where I am missing a beat*...


 Video's are the way to go....and you might not necessarily be missing a beat; you may have hit the nail on the head so to speak...i wish you well :classic_smile:


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Hi Guys

Attached is a pic of the draw of coffee shots I made after having it warmed up for about 15 to 20min. It was coming out very slow, so my grind may have been a bit too fine, I suppose explaining the more lack of crema ?


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Freshly ground?

What gram dose went in the basket? What dose in the cup? How long did it take for said dose?


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Here is a Video of a milk frothing. Any comments would be welcome. It came out ok but not entirely the way I hoped. This machine heats milk super fast and I think one has to think quick on getting the jug etc positioned properly. Am wondering if I experiment with a 2 or 3 hole wand tip too. Currently have the default 4 hole tip.

Hope this link helps which I had filmed:


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Hi NewBoy UK
I haven't measured the grams and used the does for a double shot. Once tampered, it was about 2/3 full if that helps


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Here are some pics of the dose size


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Your dropping the steam arm too soon into the milk so theres barely any froth created.

Keep at the top for longer before you drop it deeper. Keep the wand to one side to try and create a whirlpool effect.

Regarding doses/times - it seems to be usual to weigh the coffee grinds that you put into the handle and also the shot weight that comes out. Also the time from switching the pump on to off.

This way you get the same results every time and comparisons can be made to other people who use the same coffee and have a sound base for tweaking the shot


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

RancilioBru said:


> Hi NewBoy UK
> I haven't measured the grams and used the does for a double shot. Once tampered, it was about 2/3 full if that helps


 Once tamped its close to the line on the basket. Also when you wait a min to take the handle out then look at the top of the puck - you see the screw mark from the screw that holds the shower plate in.

Thats a ball park method anyway


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Try this 

Watch it all or skip to 6.30 for the technique 👍


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

You're a Gem and I highly appreciate the pointers here. makes sense and i may be going in too deep to start with, you're right. Was checking the video link too which is super helpful. I'll practice a couple of rounds and report back. This is really helpful and thanks once again for your guidance here. I'll also find a way to get a consistent measure on my grind and have it near the line, so that one can see the screw mark once taken off, as funnily enough I was watching this guide yesterday. So another tip I need to consider.

If I have a grinder without a dosier that disposes the right measure, is there an easy way to get the right measure of grind or weight of coffee grind for the basket?


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

RancilioBru said:


> If I have a grinder without a dosier that disposes the right measure, is there an easy way to get the right measure of grind or weight of coffee grind for the basket?


 Scales is the best way for accuracy

One way I may get shot down for - and quick and dirty way - get a very small plastic container. Maybe one that you get dips in from curry house.

Put the correct dose in shake flat and then draw that line. Then cut along the line.

Then every time you grind - as long as you fill it and level off the top - thats kinda the correct dose.

Its only 'correct' in volume doing it that way and not weight but if you get the grind/dose/etc spot on first then make this little 'cup' it may not be miles off.

Maybe a better way - grind till its a big mound - tap the filter in the worktop etc - then use your finger to slide over the top (without pressing down) so its flat ontop of the basket. Then tamp.

Many ways to skin a cat - but consistency is key. a gram over and it pours slower and maybe effects the taste etc etc and you will be chasing yourself for a non existent problem due to poor measures

Or just get a grinder that doses 👍


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Brilliant tips to follow there indeed. I'll definitely try that and as you say, makes sense to have the right measure in to have that consistency. I'll give it a go. thanks a ton for this info !!!


----------



## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Another re the screw mark

Tamp and place a 5p ontop. Put handle in and take out again. Take the 5p off.

If its left a mark - not a huge dent - then thats good.

Regarding issues with frothing and doses etc - it may be more prudent to post in one of the other sections of the site where theres more footfall and title it with the issue. You will get more people answering that way with different ideas and methods etc so try them all and see whats good for you 👍


----------



## RancilioBru (Nov 2, 2017)

Sure, makes sense. I was actually going to list the frothing part under another section but as you were on a roll with your expertise here, I thought to try my luck here and ask anyway. I think you have certainly given sound advice here and it will be similar from others. But no harm getting some other opinions too I suppose. But your pointers align with several other comments and videos I have been watching so I am quite confident you have steered me onto the right path 😎


----------



## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

NewboyUK said:


> ...Tamp and place a 5p ontop. Put handle in and take out again. Take the 5p off. ...If its left a mark - not a huge dent - then thats good...


 My level is fine but that's still a cool tip 😎


----------



## Caffeine fan (May 14, 2019)

I leave my Classico on for 35-45 minutes before pulling a shot in order to get a decent temperature in the cup. If you get yourself a wifi plug you can set it to come on without having to get out of bed too early for your first shot! I use the TP Link HS100 with the Kasa app which works well.


----------



## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Like @Caffeine fan I leave mine on for 30-45 mins before pulling a shot. A simple 13A smart plug will be your best friend (I think I use the Tp-Link HS100 - never trips or has failed me in 18 months or so), and attached to a home assistant makes it even better to turn on/off when needed (Voice activation is great when you're not near the machine... or use your mobile when you're not at home to start the warming process... you'll see!).

The steam is very powerful on this machine, you've got a big boiler - and four holes! Try mastering this, and I think you could work any other variant. It heats the milk up VERY fast (I use about 110ml and its done in about 15 sec or so?), so make sure you have a damp microfibre cloth ready to wipe the wand (milk scum can adhere very fast and make brown cruddy deposits on it). And don't forget to purge before (clear out water), and afterwards, so nothing travels back up the wand and into your boiler- thats a whole other thread on 'stinky water/steam'.

Routine (get all your bits ready) and process (Cant stress enough on measurement, and dialling in your grinder with consistently roasted beans to follow) with lots of practise... it takes a while to get it where you'd like - and then you'll be pulling your shots better than the local shops.

I've just recently taken to pulling single shots (8.75g +/- .25g) on a naked filter, with a 41mm basket. Singles are better for me, as I only roast small amounts at home, and it stretches my stocks further! (And its more difficult to get that consistent than a full size, trust me!) - but also try using a naked filter, as it uncovers all you preparation faults... Grind size, levelling, density, water pressure etc - you want to see it coming out pretty evenly across the perforations, then start to drip/pour at a favourable flow, in order to get the best out of your grinds, but ultimately - it's what makes you happy and what you like to drink...

Oh, a nice pressure gauge takes seconds to fit on the group head (only a few pounds), and I use a cheap wired thermometer attached to the group head - to give me a basic idea on temp (not essential, but fun).

AND, if you ever need to dismantle, I've placed some images somewhere on here when I took mine apart for a massive (acidic) clean up. Before/After pics inside the unit with components incl boiler/element/all pipes etc...

Good luck.

Welcome to the never ending hole of despair....! lol


----------



## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

By way of a belated response to the, helpful, reply by Achrys I'd say what a pity the OP hasn't acknowledged it and, indeed, hasn't been seen since Feb. 8th - 18 days ago.

I saw mention of talk that, for some obscure resaon, people were joining the forum and using/abusing the knowledge of established members for their own, pointless purposes.

Whether this is an example I don't know but 18 days is long enough to come back here to, at the very least, acknowledge the information given in good faith.

The title of the thread caught my eye insofar as I'd wondered if there would come a time when I might look more seriously at the Classico. My current machine did need some professional attention and is back up and running but, for a while, I was wondering if I might need to look at alternatives - and I'm not especially inclined to spontaneously follow current fashion and default to an ACS Minima or a Lelit Elizabeth. And Fracino was an alternative. In fact I'm slightly starting to wonder about the trend to look to ACS and Lelit as a recommended answer to most questions. It seems that the "in-vogue" machines and grinders of 5 years ago have given way to a new wave of alternatives - but that's neither here nor there as, speaking only for myself, I'll stick with what I have until forced to change.


----------



## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

DevonStan said:


> people were joining the forum and using/abusing the knowledge of established members for their own, pointless purposes.
> 
> Whether this is an example I don't know but 18 days is long enough to come back here to, at the very least, acknowledge the information given in good faith.


 Mmmm i don't see it like that (YMMV)....forums are an online Library (database) for the good of all (public), regardless of how often you pop in/out to read the books (info).

Information (books) need to be read; forums give the public access to said (books) information....it's a symbiotic relationship i.e. they both need each other.

Now a newbie just joining to sell on their equipment and then never to be seen/heard from again is a different matter in my eyes. That IMO is rude; but each to their own.



DevonStan said:


> It seems that the "in-vogue" machines and grinders of 5 years ago have given way to a new wave of alternatives -


 Progress is a good thing no ?


----------



## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

All received, thanks.

I maintain that, ordinarily, it takes just a moment to acknowledge a post, especially one as informative as the one in question - however, I shouldn't be unduly concerned as I've seen the same thing happen enought times elsewhere that I ought not be surprised. And maybe something happened to prevent a reply being made.

In fact I would politely ask (and I'm not speaking in connection with this particular thread) if there's a reason why members who receive a ban don't get the word "Banned" attached to their identification box that we all see - several other forums I've visited have that facility and that way everyone knows they shouldn't be expecting any further contributions from that particular member (or ex-member, as the case may be).

Re. the second aspect of the topic, yes, you're right. Call me old fashioned 😀


----------

