# EK43 - hype or hip?



## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> So @Heligan how are you finding your L1/Niche combo?


I love the workflow of the Niche and the ability to switch beans so easily. I do find that the Niche adds some earthier tones and seems to take out the "top notes" of lighter roasts compared with my Mythos - I get less of the fruity/floral elements. However the results are still very good and I am finding myself using the Niche rather than the Mythos because it's so easy. The Niche also gets used for Rave's decaf, which is what my husband drinks. For that I don't perceive any benefit with the Mythos.

I've got my L1 up for sale currently because I'm interested in what an LR can do with lighter roasts, but then I'm also looking at getting an EK43 to pair with it. I'll keep the Niche though, for the decaf and the occasional medium roast beans.

Not sure if that covers what you want to know - please ask if not!


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Heligan said:


> but then I'm also looking at getting an EK43 to pair with it.


Please test it out first, it might not be the best option for espresso, most of the coffee shops I have been to use it for alternative methods, not for espresso.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Heligan said:


> I love the workflow of the Niche and the ability to switch beans so easily. I do find that the Niche adds some earthier tones and seems to take out the "top notes" of lighter roasts compared with my Mythos - I get less of the fruity/floral elements. However the results are still very good and I am finding myself using the Niche rather than the Mythos because it's so easy. The Niche also gets used for Rave's decaf, which is what my husband drinks. For that I don't perceive any benefit with the Mythos.
> 
> I've got my L1 up for sale currently because I'm interested in what an LR can do with lighter roasts, but then I'm also looking at getting an EK43 to pair with it. I'll keep the Niche though, for the decaf and the occasional medium roast beans.
> 
> Not sure if that covers what you want to know - please ask if not!


Thank you, just glad to hear the results are good for you.

I think an LR and an EK would pretty much be my dream set up, I'll be excited just to see the pictures!









Thanks again, lots to think about!


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## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

webdoc said:


> Please test it out first, it might not be the best option for espresso, most of the coffee shops I have been to use it for alternative methods, not for espresso.


I've used the EK and L1/LR at previous Forum days at Rave, and there's a coffee shop near me which uses theirs for single origin decaf espresso, so I'm not going into this blind, but I do take your point, thank you.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Heligan said:


> I've used the EK and L1/LR at previous Forum days at Rave, and there's a coffee shop near me which uses theirs for single origin decaf espresso, so I'm not going into this blind, but I do take your point, thank you.


Great! I just hate us spending so much money testing these overly expensive machines and not liking them.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Heligan said:


> I've used the EK and L1/LR at previous Forum days at Rave, and there's a coffee shop near me which uses theirs for single origin decaf espresso, so I'm not going into this blind, but I do take your point, thank you.


Only for decaf.... sad face times


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Grinders have an influence on taste, in terms of small, but very specific changes. But more often that not, it's the round hole of our arbitrary definitions that makes a lot of grinders an apparent square peg.
> 
> A tasty, representative cup is achievable with a £150 hand grinder.


Not sure the small statement is entirely true I can think of quite a few grinders that have made big differences in the cup using the same equipment!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

webdoc said:


> Please test it out first, it might not be the best option for espresso, most of the coffee shops I have been to use it for alternative methods, not for espresso.


Lots of folk on here have got ek43s at home with their machines, it would help if you spoke from experience as pretty much all the folk that have the ek at home love them. No real caution needed here, if you want the very best from espresso and the flexibility to do other brew methods and have single dosing with zero retention, there is really not a lot else that comes close I terms of exceptional.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Not sure the small statement is entirely true I can think of quite a few grinders that have made big differences in the cup using the same equipment!


Probably best to start a thread on this subject, but it's worth considering that equipment, or the recipe (both of these are decided by the barista, not the grinder itself) may be limiting the extraction is some way. We'd really need some data to make an apples to apples comparison.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Probably best to start a thread on this subject, but it's worth considering that equipment, or the recipe (both of these are decided by the barista, not the grinder itself) may be limiting the extraction is some way. We'd really need some data to make an apples to apples comparison.


I agree, or how about folk who give advice to actually have experience of a broad spectrum of grinders at all levels.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> I agree, or how about folk who give advice to actually have experience of a broad spectrum of grinders at all levels.


Or both.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

coffeechap said:


> Lots of folk on here have got ek43s at home with their machines, it would help if you spoke from experience as pretty much all the folk that have the ek at home love them. No real caution needed here, if you want the very best from espresso and the flexibility to do other brew methods and have single dosing with zero retention, there is really not a lot else that comes close I terms of exceptional.


How is my statement different than yours?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> I agree, or how about folk who give advice to actually have experience of a broad spectrum of grinders at all levels.


Yes! Please!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

webdoc said:


> Please test it out first, it might not be the best option for espresso, most of the coffee shops I have been to use it for alternative methods, not for espresso.


Is this from experience?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

webdoc said:


> How is my statement different than yours?


You advised caution based on what you have seen in a coffee shop, you seem to tout that you have a vast knowledge of all things coffee related, or at least that's what you imply. What equipment do you have at home, how much experience have you got have using top end equipment?

What I would like you to know is that in terms of espresso I have pretty much owned or used ALL of the top grinder and have an LR and gs3 mp at home. I have stripped and rebuilt most grinders, have even had a go on the niche which is the topic of this thread. Why don't you start a thread about your experiences with equipment?


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

MildredM said:


> Is this from experience?


Having to drink from it, yes, having it on my bench, no.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

coffeechap said:


> You advised caution based on what you have seen in a coffee shop, you seem to tout that you have a vast knowledge of all things coffee related, or at least that's what you imply. What equipment do you have at home, how much experience have you got have using top end equipment?
> 
> What I would like you to know is that in terms of espresso I have pretty much owned or used ALL of the top grinder and have an LR and gs3 mp at home. I have stripped and rebuilt most grinders, have even had a go on the niche which is the topic of this thread. Why don't you start a thread about your experiences with equipment?


I know Chap, i have and had high end hardware myself, this is not a flexing topic nor an on topic subject to discuss here. All I wanted to do is to give a reasonable advice IMO, to test anything one buys before spending so much for it, as my impression of the EK is that is the top grinder suitable for brew and a decent one for espresso. Overall I agree its the best all around for its price, except if its used only for espresso, at home!


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## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Only for decaf.... sad face times


And for V60, but they have two Mythos for regular espresso. I've chatted to one of the owners at length, he's decided that using the EK for all espresso just wouldn't suit their workflow. The way I look at it, if I go there in the afternoon I have to drink decaf or I won't sleep, so I get a really tasty espresso


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

webdoc said:


> Overall I agree its the best all around for its price, except if its used only for espresso, at home!


Good I am glad you agree and clearly you have not had an ek at home otherwise you would not have made the statement about espresso, the ek is excellent at espresso, perhaps you don't know how to get the best out of one or perhaps you are much more akin to traditional type espresso shots. Anyway enjoy the drink you make!


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

webdoc said:


> I know Chap, i have and had high end hardware myself, this is not a flexing topic nor an on topic subject to discuss here. All I wanted to do is to give a reasonable advice IMO, to test anything one buys before spending so much for it, as my impression of the EK is that is the top grinder suitable for brew and a decent one for espresso. Overall I agree its the best all around for its price, except if its used only for espresso, at home!


Most new EKs come poorly aligned and with the wrong burr set. How does testing a new one help?

The whole point of an EK is to align it and find a burr set that suits your bean preference. After that it's arguably the best espresso grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> Is this from experience?


To be fair, you don't see many decent volume shops using an ek for espresso.

It's a balls for workflow and isn't to everyone's taste for. Milk drinks.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

It's actually pretty easy with a dosing attachment. The point was that nobody should buy an EK43 based on it's stock performance.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

webdoc said:


> EK...... Overall I agree its the best all around for its price, except if its used only for espresso, at home!


Based on what evidence?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> Most new EKs come poorly aligned and with the wrong burr set.


So you have actual statistics to back this generalisation? Matt Perger came second in the WBC using a stock unaligned original EK43 in 2013 using first generation coffee burrs (AKA wrong burr set).



dev said:


> The whole point of an EK is to align it and find a burr set that suits your bean preference. After that it's arguably the best espresso grinder.


No it isn't. The old saying, 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it' doesn't seem to hold with some purists (or is that obsessives) endlessly pursuing the Holy Grail. For many the journey is all - they don't really want to arrive.

Sure, some professional/amateurs have measured, shimmed, sanded their EKs to ensure greater micron alignment. But, I haven't found any controlled blind tasting trials that show any taste differences in the cup from a 'poorly aligned' EK and one that is bob on. What there is out there are unsubstantiated anecdotal remarks which get repeated without scrutiny or question and adopted as truths.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Rao has some opinions:

https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2019/1/5/baratza-forte-vs-ek43-which-is-better

Not saying he's unbiased or anything but still...

I know people who sent their EK43s back because they couldn't be bothered aligning/changing burrs and eventually bought Compaks or Dittings.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> Rao has some opinions:
> 
> https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2019/1/5/baratza-forte-vs-ek43-which-is-better
> 
> ...


Again that assumes they were misaligned to start with ( measured how? ) or misaligned to a degree that made good coffee not possible.

It's all ancedotal , i know people that have original coffee burrs in there Ek and are happy with them. Doesn't prove much ultimately.

Mahl may well have different qc tolerances than the people they are selling them too.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dev said:


> Rao has some opinions:
> 
> https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2019/1/5/baratza-forte-vs-ek43-which-is-better
> 
> ...


Can this not have it's own thread?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> Rao has some opinions:
> 
> Not saying he's unbiased or anything but still...
> 
> .


Expect to see EKs disappear from coffee shops and be replaced with Fortes.



dev said:


> I know people who sent their EK43s back because they couldn't be bothered aligning/changing burrs and eventually bought Compaks or Dittings.


Each to his own.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Expect to see EKs disappear from coffee shops and be replaced with Fortes.
> 
> Each to his own.


Can we move some of this over here , or another thread as its got nothing to do with the Niche

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?48791-Buying-a-stock-ek43


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dev said:


> Rao has some opinions:
> 
> https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2019/1/5/baratza-forte-vs-ek43-which-is-better
> 
> ...


 Get yourself a forte @dev and be happy


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Get yourself a forte @dev and be happy


I know someone who is pretty happy with his


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Get yourself a forte @dev and be happy


I'll probably end up getting an EKK43 simply because it's cheaper than a R100 and I don't mind the handy work.

I'm still a few months away before purchase and you'll never know what else might fit the bill.

A Forte BG might be an option in the beginning until I figure out what's the volume like for brew.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

EKK43? Home use or shop?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Shop.

Can't use electric stuff at home with a small kid in the next room. The wife would go into trained assassin mode.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Interesting thread in Ek's this has turned out to be.. So, no good for espresso? Utter drivel..


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Rhys said:


> Interesting thread in Ek's this has turned out to be.. So, no good for espresso? Utter drivel..


I'm happy to take yours for a removal fee. I don't charge much as I drive 59bhp 1.0L car anyway.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

PPapa said:


> I'm happy to take yours for a removal fee. I don't charge much as I drive 59bhp 1.0L car anyway.


Why? Mine's fantastic for espresso.. Funny comment IMHO. Also I'm quite happily getting nearly 50 mpg at legal motorway speeds in my car (..if that counts for anything







)

To be fair, it spritzed more than Roy Hattersley before it was aligned (..and still does on certain beans)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

PPapa said:


> I'm happy to take yours for a removal fee. I don't charge much as I drive 59bhp 1.0L car anyway.


Pretty sure the EK has more horsepower than that


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Rhys said:


> Why? Mine's fantastic for espresso.. Funny comment IMHO. Also I'm quite happily getting nearly 50 mpg at legal motorway speeds in my car (..if that counts for anything
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just kidding, it looks like a lot of people think it's a bag/spice grinder and it doesn't work for espresso. You tell me!

FWIW I don't get a lot of spritzing on an ek43s.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Pretty sure the EK has more horsepower than that


You'd need 30 EKs to match that!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Rhys said:


>


Mahlkonig should do an EK variant with the choice of having Hattersley's mugshot on it in place of Perger!

with 'you have been warned' underneath.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Mahlkonig should do an EK variant with the choice of having Hattersley's mugshot on it in place of Perger!


The Gary **** version i had was bad enough

Perger's isnt o it anymore is it?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> The Gary **** version i had was bad enough
> 
> Perger's isnt o it anymore is it?


Mine came with a WBC sticker instead of Matt.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> The Gary **** version i had was bad enough
> 
> Perger's isnt o it anymore is it?


No alas, Mahlkonig couldn't afford the royalties, apparently.

I feel cheated.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

PPapa said:


> Mine came with a WBC sticker instead of Matt.


Ah, yours was from the Mahlkonig parts bin then


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Now I know why my school maths teacher told my parents maths was my blindspot - ouch.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Now I know why my school maths teacher told my parents maths was my blindspot - ouch.


Bet they didn't say 'That doesn't add up..'


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

PPapa said:


> Just kidding, it looks like a lot of people think it's a bag/spice grinder and it doesn't work for espresso. You tell me!
> 
> FWIW I don't get a lot of spritzing on an ek43s.


I've got Turkish burrs. Gives it quite a good range for espresso.


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## schnee (Feb 25, 2019)

Got this one from a friend half a year ago, difference in taste was amazing, though the machines I used before were pretty basic so I guess it would have beeen the same with any upgrade


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