# Which one is the best?



## Natosha Jacobs (Jan 24, 2021)

Firstly I tried to choose coffee machine. All ok, until I found out that in case you want a good cup of coffee you actually want to grind it so you have it fresh. If you do not grind it, the coffee is not fresh and loses its aroma and taste. So I had to decide to buy a coffee grinder. Now choosing to buy a coffee grinder is hard. There were a lot of different factors you need to consider. I will be mainly grinding espresso. So far I am deciding between Breville smart grinder PRO and Baratza Virtuoso. I found good reviews of both grinders. Now I would need some opinions of fellow baristas here. Coffee grinder world site says that durability of smart grinder might not be as good as of Virtuoso. Has anyone tried that out? Would need to find out if that is true so if anyone can verify it, that would help me with my decision.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@Natosha Jacobs Hi and welcome to the forum, i hope you enjoy your stay and have fun....sorry i can't help you but there are plenty of good folks on here that will give you your answer that you seek :classic_smile:


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## Natosha Jacobs (Jan 24, 2021)

It's ok. And Thanks @Rumpelstiltskin


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

I've gone from a that particular Breville (sage) grinder to a Barratza (Sette) mainly because I wasn't confident of the lifespan of the Breville.

Interesting decision considering the Sette has reliability issues!

I've read good things about Baratzas other grinders though and they appear to be very repairable.

Welcome!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Natosha Jacobs said:


> Firstly I tried to choose coffee machine. All ok, until I found out that in case you want a good cup of coffee you actually want to grind it so you have it fresh. If you do not grind it, the coffee is not fresh and loses its aroma and taste. So I had to decide to buy a coffee grinder. Now choosing to buy a coffee grinder is hard. There were a lot of different factors you need to consider. I will be mainly grinding espresso. So far I am deciding between Breville smart grinder PRO and Baratza Virtuoso. I found good reviews of both grinders. Now I would need some opinions of fellow baristas here. Coffee grinder world site says that durability of smart grinder might not be as good as of Virtuoso. Has anyone tried that out? Would need to find out if that is true so if anyone can verify it, that would help me with my decision.


 I would imagine that most posts that will follow will focus on two things:

- neither of the above is suited for espresso

- top range hand grinders would be a better match

You might have read it, but I had a similar budget and similar needs (I think I even mentioned the Virtuoso, which I was advised against), and this is how it ended for me. You can have a look, it might save you time:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57457-help-me-decide-my-first-espresso-setup-the-grinder-machine/?do=embed


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Both those grinders are at the bottom end of prices ranges . 
if you prefer to drink darker roasted Costa , Nero , type drinks you might get away with them in the virtuoso If you want to explore anything perhaps a little different in flavour , lighter roasted , then it will struggle. 
Brevile is a better bet in terms of it actually doing espresso , after some shimming. Again it's limiter will be if you want to explore different tastes and roast levels of coffee.


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## Stox (Jul 19, 2020)

I spent a bit of time using a Sage SGP as my first grinder (I still have it - need to put it on ebay) and it cheerfully crunched through whatever beans I threw at it. Not sure what 'shimming' @Mrboots2u is proposing; my one can grind fine enough to choke a Gaggia Classic out of the box, without re-calibrating the upper burr, and that's feeding it with high-altitude light roast beans - I don't do the darker roasts.

It has a number of whizzy features which, as I realised that single-dosing was the way to go for me, just got in the way and I fairly quickly moved onto something better. It's really a case of what you're wanting and expecting from a grinder and if, like me, you're starting out in the field of freshly ground coffee you probably won't work that bit out until you've got some kit and tried working with it.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@Natosha Jacobs this forum is just brilliant...see how quickly the good folk responded 😎


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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

A couple of things you need to think about .... :-

- how fixed is your budget?

- is this ONLY for espresso? Or will you be grinding for filter, aeropress, etc?

- how often are you going to be changing beans?

The first issue is that you tend to get what you pay for, at least, up to a point.The way you grind will vary for different types of coffee brewing. For example, finer for espresso than for filter. If you only do one type of coffee, your best bet is a grinder that does that very well, but if you wantmultiple tpes of coffee, you'll wanta grinder that does only does different types well, but that can be adjusted easily, AND can be put back on the previous setting accurately.

Example. Getting the best espresso means "dialling in" for that bean. It can take several attempts, and you waste about 18-20g of coffee each time. It's not funny if you use 80g or 100g of coffee to get the "right" setting, then someone comes along and resets the grinder to much coarser to do a filter brew UNLESS your grinder can be quickly and accurately returned to that dialled-in setting, or you end up wasting several more lots of 20g at a time, getting it right again.

So IF you do multiple types of brew, or if you fancy this particular bean today, and a different one tomorrow, even if both for espresso, you either need two grindets or one that can be quickly and accurately adjusted. Those with more accuracy tend to be worm-drives, with continuous adjustment, than than "stepped" but some worm drive grinderts might require dozens of rotations of the adjuster to get from espresso to filter. And dozens more to get back. That might be acceptable fgor a once-in-a-blue-moon change, but a couple of times a day is going to drive you utterly nuts.

And, yup, grinderts capable of doing both, and quick and accurate adjustments tend to be a bit more expensive than basic grinders. So it will pay you decide what your priorities are, and either buy a grinder that will do what you want, or at least to understand what it either won't do at all, or won't do without exceptional aggravation.

Buy right, buy once. Buy too quickly, and upgrade in three months. Also, budget for a wig, because you'll have pulled all your hair out by then, if you get this wrong. 

Hint - you'll see some grinders with a big bean hopper on top. Usually, they're designed for repeated grinding of the same bean. Others don't have a hopper. They're usually "dosing" grinders, meaning you measure out what beans you need for *this* brew, and this one only. Which means you need scales. Btand name coffee scales are anything from about £50 to a grand (yes, really) but you can get perfectly workable units for about £20 on Amazon, etc. You can also get right junk there at £20, so ask first.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

The only response that works is: Best for what purpose exactly?

If you want to do espresso at all, then that kicks the budget requirements up significantly. And if you want to single dose as well as doing multiple brew methods with one grinder, I can point you at some James Hoffman videos of grinders that start at £1500 and go up (and up) from there.

However, if it's an espresso grinder you want, and don't need to do other brew methods very often at all, then far more sensibly priced (but still not inexpensive) options start at £250 or so for a Mignon Manuale. Phil's advice above is pretty spot on. Worm gears are one way to get the precise adjustments needed for espresso, but they're not the only one.

To answer the question posed by @Stox , shimming is putting in thin layers (usually of plastic or metal, but sometimes paper) behind one or both burrs to adjust their position and tighten up the grind. Not all grinders are made the same as plastic moulds can wear over time and the precision present in early models goes away. You may need to shim your grinder if you can't go as fine as you need to, adding more adjustment at the fine end of the grinder's settings. Most good espresso grinders don't need this, as they have a mechanism that can be turned so the burrs actually touch, many consumer grinders are built to prevent that happening.


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## Natosha Jacobs (Jan 24, 2021)

Thank you soo much Guys. I really happy for your help. Your comments really helpful for my decision.


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## Stox (Jul 19, 2020)

allikat said:


> To answer the question posed by @Stox , shimming is putting in thin layers (usually of plastic or metal, but sometimes paper) behind one or both burrs to adjust their position and tighten up the grind. Not all grinders are made the same as plastic moulds can wear over time and the precision present in early models goes away. You may need to shim your grinder if you can't go as fine as you need to, adding more adjustment at the fine end of the grinder's settings. Most good espresso grinders don't need this, as they have a mechanism that can be turned so the burrs actually touch, many consumer grinders are built to prevent that happening.


 I understand the use of shims to adjust the burr alignment and clearance on a commercial grade grinder. A quick search suggests there was a kit available for older Sage grinders that allowed for a shim (essentially a washer) to be placed under the lower burr to make a finer grind range available. However I think this kit is no longer relevant because later models have an adjustable upper burr carrier. My 2020 vintage SGP not only goes fine enough to choke a Gaggia Classic but you can also hear the burrs touching well before you get to the finest setting. This is out of the box, before changing the grind range via the upper burr carrier.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Commercial grinders are often better built than home machines, so shimming or alignment can be required to get the best of them.

Glad yours doesn't need that.


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## Stox (Jul 19, 2020)

allikat said:


> Commercial grinders are often better built than home machines, so shimming or alignment can be required to get the best of them.
> 
> Glad yours doesn't need that.


 There were other reasons to move on to a better grinder, but the ability to grind fine enough for espresso was not one of them.


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