# Microfoam Woes!!!



## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

I am having some 'issues' with getting decent/consistent Microfoam with Brewtus. It has the 1 hole tip.

I am following instructions and putting it in just below and raising it so I get the tsch tsch sound till about 40 degress and then sink it further and get it swirling until about 65 (Using a thermometer) it seems to look ok but it basically hot milk and a dense top layer which sort of flops out.

I did change to Semi from Full fat Cravendale and it has got worse. I was getting some success with full fat but with the 4 pints of semi skimmed I got absolutely bugger all.....

Any suggestions? Does Milk vary? Worth trying supermarket own brand? Organic? What sort of pressure should Brewtus be running at steam wise as I believe I can change this?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

The steam pressure should be fine where it's currently set.

Sounds like you're doing the right motions, could you pop up a video? Is the milk still spinning when you're introducing air? It needs to be so that the air is mixed through.

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Will leave the pressure alone.

Yep the milk is still spinning when I am doing the initial stage. I will sort a video out tonight and pop it up.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?7925-Milk-steaming-slowed-down-a-bit

I use Waitrose Organic unhom'd semi-skimmed


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Cheers will have a watch and take a video later. We have a waitrose just down the road will grab some milk as I need some anyway


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I get good results from Tesco Full fat Organic. I couldn't get the Plain Semi to pour right. I could get microfoam, but not dense enough to pour, like cream.

Try one of the milk's suggested and also don't be afraid to stretch (introduce air) for longer. Start with stretching to just below target temp and work backwards as neccesary. I find it is easier to work backwards from a point of too much microfoam than the other way round, IMHO.

Also, it is absoultely essential to swirl sufficiently after knocking to integrate the foam and milk to get a creamy texture.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You could try starting the milk off from luke warm, stick it in the microwave for 30secs-1min, this often helps on my machine which lacks a powerful steam


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

I have picked up some Morrisons Organic and will grab some Waitrose as well to try.

With regards to warming the milk, surely this is counter productive and gives less time to stretch? Steam power is certainly not the issue. I am using an Expobar Dual Boiler Brewtus so have no excuse blaming equipment.

I always make sure as soon as I am done I give it a good swirl for a while as well.

On a side note my VST basket and Knock tamp arrived today


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## jimrobo (Aug 5, 2011)

if its too thick when you pour it then you've stretched it too much. stretch it less and try and again


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Get practising with cold water and a drop of fairy liquid! It's great for honing technique.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

twistywizard said:


> I am following instructions and putting it in just below and raising it so I get the tsch tsch sound till about 40 degress and then sink it further and get it swirling until about 65 (Using a thermometer) it seems to look ok but it basically hot milk and a dense top layer which sort of flops out.


- The waitrose is the most consistant i've used , as well as the best tasting. Make you get the unhom'd variety.

- You are stretching too much by the sounds of it & too aggressively.. a lot will depend what pressure you have set, it might be too high for someone new ot the machine/tip.

- As soon as the bottom of the jug becomes 'not cold' to the touch its time to start raising the jug, the movement is very subtle , maybe 3-4mm.

- Start with milk which has been the freezer for 15 mins, this extra time to combine the milk with the macrofoam , is great for learning and nailing the microfoam


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

twistywizard said:


> With regards to warming the milk, surely this is counter productive and gives less time to stretch? Steam power is certainly not the issue. I am using an Expobar Dual Boiler Brewtus so have no excuse blaming equipment.


Then really you are right, there is no pre-warming needed in the microwave. But you want to stretch the milk (certainly in my experience) toward the end of the process. So you do want to keep the steam head fully submerged until the jug is hotting up, then gently withdraw the head until you getting a good whirl to the milk, there is also a distinct 'tone' to the sound that the steam head will make which is how I know im at the right spot, like tuning a guitar sting and listening for the sweet spot. Dont be surprised if you dont 'see' the foam develop, it should be so fine it looks like the milk below it, draw the head up as the milk expands and make sure you dont overheat.

When done give the jug a couple of taps to burst and big bubbles and a bit of a swill just to help the foam and milk combine and then pour.

Everyones mileage varies, but you should be able to get a good foam out of any milk with your machine, even a standard semi-skimmed, just keep practicing!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

D_Evans said:


> Then really you are right, there is no pre-warming needed in the microwave. *But you want to stretch the milk (certainly in my experience) toward the end of the process*. So you do want to keep the steam head fully submerged until the jug is hotting up, then gently withdraw the head until you getting a good whirl to the milk, there is also a distinct 'tone' to the sound that the steam head will make which is how I know im at the right spot, like tuning a guitar sting and listening for the sweet spot. Dont be surprised if you dont 'see' the foam develop, it should be so fine it looks like the milk below it, draw the head up as the milk expands and make sure you dont overheat.
> 
> When done give the jug a couple of taps to burst and big bubbles and a bit of a swill just to help the foam and milk combine and then pour.
> 
> Everyones mileage varies, but you should be able to get a good foam out of any milk with your machine, even a standard semi-skimmed, just keep practicing!


I beg to differ


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

You definitely want to stretch early in the process, if for no other reason than because it let's the milk spin towards the end and mixes all the bubbles through to make it creeeaaamy!

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Hmm, putting my experience on my home machine aside as it has a very poor steam power, I find that stretching the milk throughout the whole process creates milk that is more foam than milk.

It could well be my technique however, I have not spent a lot of time with a proper machine is a fairly long time.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Stretching the whole way through will create lots of foam. Stretching at the start for a few seconds then submerging the steam tip for the remaining duration of the process is the correct way to do it though.

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Sorry I didnt get chance to get a Video.

I got some Morrisons Organic unhom Semi. Did the same as I did with Cravendale and got half decent results. Did it again and similar half decent results.

Reading all the above I think perhaps I am stretching too much... I will spend less time stretching it and more time with the jug raised. What sort of sound am I looking for during stretching. I thought I wanted to avoid a slurping and have the occasional tschh tschhh...


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Reading what Gary said about the bottom of the jug being just warm, I think points to me perhaps over stretching the milk. As it is usually fairly hot by this point. I have ditched the thermometer and got some Temptags so I at least have an indicator when I have hit the overall temp.

So I am looking for a slightly warm feeling on the bottom of the jug?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

When the jug starts to feel warm that's roughly 100F, you should have stopped stretching a while before that. Once the milk starts spinning, begin to stretch for 3/4 seconds (depends how thick you like the milk) then raise the jug back to just below the surface (don't plunge to the bottom as the steam will bounce off the bottom of the jug and your milk will fold on itself.

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Thermometers are useful when you are starting off, so you don't overheat your milk, but they are not really needed.

Hold the jug in your hand and touch the bottom with your other hand.

Stretch until the jug feels neither hot or cold - around body temp.

Take your hand off and touch it every second or so

Spin until you cannot keep your hand on the jug for very long before its too hot.

Plunge the wand to the bottom and turn off the steam. Done

Then when you pour,

1. If the foam immediately floats on top of the crema, too much foam / not fine enough bubbles - stretch for less or if not the correct texture (too large bubbles) less aggressively.

2. If the milk sinks and there is just a tiny squiggle of foam at the end, not enough foam - stretch for longer.

3. If the milk sinks and then a huge blob of microfoam slides out at the end - stretch less, make sure you have swirled the jug enough before pouring. Try swirl and settle rather than constant swirling.

Out of interest, which of the above applies?


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Number 3, which as per other peoples postings it seems I am stretching way too much!!!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

twistywizard said:


> What sort of sound am I looking for during stretching. I thought I wanted to avoid a slurping and have the occasional tschh tschhh...


did you watch the video?


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I'd say that is the best of the scenarios as you have stretched the milk correctly (got the correct texture).

You just need to stop strecthing a little sooner and make sure you swirl the jug enough (after steaming) and don't let it separate out again before pouring. ie: pour immediately after swirling.


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