# Help getting right flavour?



## RossAberdeen (Jul 12, 2014)

Hi there

I am new to the forums and quite new to coffee appreciation, and I signed up looking for some advice on how to get a particular flavour from my home coffee.

Now, the beans in question are ... Starbucks! I know, Booo







I just really like the taste that you get in store, it has a flavour that I haven't tasted anywhere else. Its that sort of caramelly edge that their coffee has and which you can smell before you take a sip. I bought some of their beans (Dark Espresso Roast), and checked to make sure they were the ones they use in store. The first cups I brewed had THAT taste. I was really happy! However, thereafter I have been completely unable to get that flavour again and I cannot see what I am doing differently. This is my process:

1. I ground the beans at home the night before needing the coffee with a Krups Expert GVX231 Burr Coffee Grinder, which I can set the coarseness on. The dial is about in the middle. I keep the rest of the bean pack in an air tight container and put it in the fridge for safe keeping, and the ground stuff in another tupperware container, also in the fridge.

2. My coffee machine is a Delonghi EC152 Portafilter type machine, which always provides the same temperature more or less. The only thing I can really control is how long I pour for.

3. I have experimented with half filling and 3/4 filling the portafilter with grounds. I fill using a teaspoon, then tap the portafilter on the work surface a couple of times to get the coffee evenly distributed.

4. I have a metal tamper and use what I consider to be fairly light pressure. If this is any kind of measure, the coffee is usually fairly easy to tip out after brewing and I don't get a solid "puck" in the portafilter unless I push a fair bit harder.

5. Because the machine is physically quite small, I have to pull each shot into a (pre-heated) 3oz cup. I put a fresh dose of grounds in and then pull another shot, as I like to have 2 shots per cup. I have experimented with pulling the shot shorter and longer to see if it makes a difference, which doesn't seem to be the case.

6. I pour hot water into a separate mug, about 3oz, and then add the two, 2-3oz shots to the mug. I add a splash of milk. Its worth noting that often as I transfer the shot, much of the crema gets left behind in the shot cup.

Can anyone please advise what I might do differently to get that nice caramelly flavour out?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Once you grind a bean, it lasts about one hour, if that, before becoming stale. If you have a grinder, then grind the bean as you need it. Do not change anything else and see how that goes


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Ross

Welcome to Coffee Forums UK

A few things you can try;

1 Grind fresh, just before you need to use the beans. They start to go stale immediately once ground and even after 30 seconds - 2 minutes you can lose a lot of the aroma

2 Extraction time is what most people need to focus on - no disadvantage here

3 Try and weigh each amount placed into the portafilter. IS this between 14 and 16 grams coffee when full to the rim? Do not tap the portafilter on the bench - this can cause hard layers that can crack under pressure

4 Tip the portafilter upside down. If it falls out then the tamp is too light. If it stays in the portafilter then you have enough downward pressure. Tweak this later

5 No disadvantage here. Try putting your cups on an angle

6 Is the milk hot or cold?

Flavour is most likely degraded because you have ground and left for so long


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## RossAberdeen (Jul 12, 2014)

Hi guys

Thanks for your quick responses! I ran some experiments based on your advice. To dfk41 and Glenn, I freshly ground some coffee, and did everything the same: No effect unfortunately.

To answer your further questions Glenn:

I have a little digital scale and my portafilter when full takes 8g. I am assuming there is no difference between US and UK grams and grammes, so perhaps I have quite a small portafilter? This pic might help: http://uk-pic1.ciao.com/uk/140095956.jpg Though of course, its still the same one I used when I managed to get the flavour I wanted.

I tried a bit of angling









I avoided tapping, and tried both my normal tamp pressure (I checked as per your suggestion and it doesn't fall out) and a harder one. The harder tamp seemed to make a more bitter shot, but still sadly no caramelly tones. I tried adding a bit of milk, still nothing. In answer to your question I am adding milk from the fridge, though on my successful runs this was the same.

Still coming up as a fairly average espresso to be honest, which is no bad thing. I have run out of beans now so will head to store tomorrow to pick more up. Is it time to start experimenting with grind?

Thanks again guys

Ross


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Hi Ross and welcome









What's the roast date on your bean? Also do you u have a set amount of time that you let your machine heat up for?


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## RossAberdeen (Jul 12, 2014)

Tiny tamper said:


> Hi Ross and welcome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Tiny Tamper and thanks!









The "Prod Date" on the bag is 25/03/14, so not the freshest in the world. I will buy a new bag and see if the first brews taste right, then gradually tail off after opening!

Re heating, my machine has a little light that comes on to tell me when its "up to temperature" and I don't brew until it goes green. I can't find out what temperature it actually puts out though and don't own a thermometer


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Ok Sooooooooooo you got ur beans from the local museum lol, ideally 2 days old from a roaster but that's another story, your machine light does not tell a true story either, I also have a small machine the lights on in about 10 mins but the machine isn't Truely warm, give your machine 30 mins minimum, the best way I describe the difference in a cool machine and a warm machine is, if you have ever seen a picture that's heavily pixlated then becomes clear like someones face on question of sport is the difference it's crisper, Sharper, cleaner and warmer your not giving any coffee a chance with A. Old beans. B. Cool machine , so get as fresh as you can and heat that mofo up properly and you will be doing at least 2 of the multiple variables properly.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm going to be completely honest and advise you to consider buying a new grinder and machine.

You're not really going to get the best experience until at least the grinder is changed, and most likely the machine as well.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Glenn said:


> I'm going to be completely honest and advise you to consider buying a new grinder and machine.
> 
> You're not really going to get the best experience until at least the grinder is changed, and most likely the machine as well.


And the beans, I would guess that you haven't taken into account the fact that the beans will age even more rapidly once the pack is opened.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

"I keep the rest of the bean pack in an air tight container and put it in the fridge"

Think he has it covered charlie


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi Ross

Many moons ago, long before I joined this forum and probably about 6 machines back, I had an almost identical set up to yours with the same grinder, even using the same beans ( the shame..). Whilst echoing Glenn's comments above and we all have to start somewhere, you might try a good clean of the portafilter especially the base where from memory, if you turn it upside down, you will see a cross type affair in the section the coffee comes out of that you will struggle to find a way into as appears molded to the bottom of the portafilter.

This area builds up quite a bit of a nasty oily residue over time and could explain why your first ones were ok but then tailed off ( as does the shower screen above the portafilter when in place)

The only way to clean this area is to drop the portafilter into something like puly caff powder or similar, this being a slightly stronger "detergent" made into a solution. For your needs you will not need a lot and a polite ask of a coffee shop may source you a small quantity,10g's or so will do for first test (note: your machine is not backflushable so don't be tempted). Make up and pop the portafilter and coffee baskets into the solution for approx 30 minutes, give a good rinse with fresh water before popping all back together to try again. (A friend of mine uses a dishwashing tablet dissolved in a lite container of hot water but habve never tried that method myself)

If you really can't be drawn away from the beans you like currently, you can order off their website and they tend to be fresher stock than the stores which only "shift" when they have a promotion on. There are plenty of good roasters that will ship nationally if you struggling to find a local supply and part of the journey is learning what you like and don't like (Rave's Italian Job seems to be well discussed on here, as do others).

If the above doesn't work and assume you have tried the double basket then at least you will not have spent a lot to discover you do need a new machine / grinder, plenty of advice on here as to which way to go with whatever budget you have.

Hope this helps, John


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Tiny tamper said:


> "I keep the rest of the bean pack in an air tight container and put it in the fridge"
> 
> Think he has it covered charlie


Those pre packaged chain shop beans are already old when you buy them and seem to age disproportionately once opened. Remember the beans are 4 months old if the prod date actually means the roasting date not the packaging date.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Charliej said:


> Those pre packaged chain shop beans are already old when you buy them and seem to age disproportionately once opened. Remember the beans are 4 months old if the prod date actually means the roasting date not the packaging date.


Ahhhhhh I see now where your coming from, I didn't know that either thanks charlie


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