# Different roast - different grind?



## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Is there a rule of thumb for adjusting grind to roast levels? I think I read somewhere that lighter roast requires coarser grind, or is it the other way round? (Assuming of course that all other parameters are kept the same.)


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

I absolutely grind differently for different roasts. (And for different coffees, different bags of the same coffee, and the same bag on different days.)

In general I feel out the coffee by grinding a shot and seeing which way I want to go rather than trying to guess from the roast colour, but in general I would grind a darker roast finer to get the same shot time. However 'same shot time' might not yield the shot that's optimimum for that coffee, so (for my tastes anyway) it can go either way.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

I wouldn't guess from the colour but have until now been using high roast or medium high, and there wasn't much difference between grinds - only minute adjustments. Tried a medium roast today and it dribbled out. Was completely sour.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm not sure about a general rule, since different beans have different characteristics even if you ignore the roast. I'm with ChiarasDad in that I start from a central point with the grinder and then tune into the appropriate grind. I'm always trying new beans so I have no hard and fast rules.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Would I expect a much lighter crema from a medium roast (assuming it's with normal extraction times / measurements)?


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Osh said:


> Would I expect a much lighter crema from a medium roast (assuming it's with normal extraction times / measurements)?


No.

Roast degree is only relevant when actually roasting the coffee.

Different coffee + million and one other factors= different grind, of which roast colour is completely and utterly irrelevant.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

To add to that, crema I don't think should generally be flat and a single colour, but this seems to depend on the amount of oils in the bean.

Take something like a brazil fazenda espirito santo, it has very little oils in the bean, generally a flatter crema in the cup with some flecks and I find the pucks generally extract without being at all dark, being mainly dry and extract nicely in one large lump. Medium roast/Medium Dark.

However, compare this to a monsooned malabar which has been freshly roasted, it has a huge amount of oil in the bean, the crema is marbled, from dark to light. The pucks don't generally come out in one piece, are dark, shatter and usually soppy. Taken to oils showing (i.e past second crack, so verging on dark roast).

Then compare this to a guatemalan tecuamburro decaff I'm drinking, it has something inbetween the oils of the two, crema is between the two, pucks come out soppy and dark but generally in one piece. This is taken just past first crack, i.e light->medium.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Now I'm confused. Surely the longer the bean is roasted, more of the oils come out? Wouldn't that have an effect on the crema colour?


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Osh said:


> Now I'm confused. Surely the longer the bean is roasted, more of the oils come out? Wouldn't that have an effect on the crema colour?


The oils vary greatly depending on the variety, even when you push monsooned malabar until the oils are showing and a helluva lot of oil is burnt off, it still has a vast amount of oil in the bean.

Whereas in the brazilian variety I mentioned, there's very little oil in the first place to actually lose.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

If you really want to get a feel for how the roast profile should match the bean, I seriously recommend home roasting, it's good fun too, until you set off a smoke alarm.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Read here also:

http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.php


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

I mean, hell, to add to this, different coffees imo need different extraction times. Something light like the bolivian machacamarca should keep fairly close to the 30-35 second shot time. However, I find nothing better than overextracting guatemalan finca la tecuamburro with a hugely slow pour and ending up with almost a ristretto shot after 45 seconds.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Bet you wish you hadn't asked now







But no, there are no hard and fast rules and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

I'd be interested to know the varietals you've mentioned. IMHO very few coffees should be taken to approaching dark roasts.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Thumbs up to the home roasting, though I've yet to set off my smoke alarm!

But I can understand anyone getting confused in this game, and the more research you do, the more confusing it gets. Try reading Schomer's 'Espresso Coffee; Professional Techniques - he even gets into the adjustment of grind to compensate for changing relative humidity! My brain hurts.....


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

vintagecigarman said:


> Thumbs up to the home roasting, though I've yet to set off my smoke alarm!
> 
> But I can understand anyone getting confused in this game, and the more research you do, the more confusing it gets. Try reading Schomer's 'Espresso Coffee; Professional Techniques - he even gets into the adjustment of grind to compensate for changing relative humidity! My brain hurts.....


To be fair, it was my first time and I was roasting monsooned malabar, without a fan, indoors, with just a small window open. Needless to say, when it hit second crack, it was a little smoky indoors.

Kinda like this tbh:


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I just love the shelves above the roaster in this video.

At last...someone whose carpentry skills match mine. ;>)))


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Different roast profiles, humidity levels, type of bean, drink type, date past roast = all reasons to adjust the grind

There are no hard and fast rules, but where possible use the beans that are roasted for the brewing method you are using.

Beans roasted for espresso and beans roasted for filter coffee have different roast profiles and will taste different when brewed using methods that they were not roasted for.

You can brew with beans roasted to a different profile, but the resulting beverage is not usually as pleasant as one where the intended brewing method was used


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Glenn said:


> Different roast profiles, humidity levels, type of bean, drink type, date past roast = all reasons to adjust the grind
> 
> There are no hard and fast rules, but where possible use the beans that are roasted for the brewing method you are using.
> 
> ...


I still respectfully disagree with roasting to a brew method, IMHO you can only roast a bean the way it was supposed to be roasted if you want to use it for anything. Like, roasting the narino consaca well into second crack would totally kill any flavour it had and leave you with a nice burnt taste, whereas the monsooned malabar would have no taste whatsoever before second crack.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> Bet you wish you hadn't asked now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it's a case of TMI! Looks like I opened a can of worms. But I think I get the point.

And about the home roasting, my new hyper-sensitive fire alarm (all three of them) goes off when I roast peppers - don't think I will try coffee.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I think this is a great discussion, and has enlightened me on the topic (RisingPower - looking at the gaps between posts your brain was continuously thinking about beans







)


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

BanishInstant said:


> I think this is a great discussion, and has enlightened me on the topic (RisingPower - looking at the gaps between posts your brain was continuously thinking about beans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what happens when you have a bottomless triple of monsooned malabar.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Must be the weather, I have been suffering acute cravings for some monsooned malaber this week, better get some ordered ready roasted of coure. This being due to a lifetime ban on ever getting into the roasting malarky from she who must be obeyed on account of her knowing my OCD tendencies.

Don


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Hey Don: There is absolutely no link between us Home Roasters and OCD!

Hey Don: There is absolutely no link between us Home Roasters and OCD!

Hey Don: There is absolutely no link between us Home Roasters and OCD!

Hey Don: There is absolutely no link between us Home Roasters and OCD!

Hey Don: There is absolutely no link between us Home Roasters and OCD!

Hey Don: There is absolutely no link between us Home Roasters and OCD!


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

vintagecigarman said:


> Try reading Schomer's 'Espresso Coffee; Professional Techniques - he even gets into the adjustment of grind to compensate for changing relative humidity! My brain hurts.....


David was at the Caffe Culture show in London this week, pulling shots on the new La Marzocco Strada. I won't bore you with the technical details, but its fair to say an above average level of training is required to operate this machine and use the pressure profiling to its full potential.


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