# Americano dosages



## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

Just having a re think about my dosages for my Americano coffee.

Can anyone put me right on what size of coffee shot in oz and what amount of beans in gms should be used for a 12oz mug. I've been using 15g of beans and pulling a shot of around 2.5oz. It doesn't taste like the coffee shop Americano that I crave.

How much water and does it make a difference shot first in the mug and then water or vice versa?

Gaggia classic with porlex ground beans.

Craig.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Hmm..not sure there are any hard fast rules for americano..

Other than than espresso first (water poured over).

If you pour the espresso onto the water, its a 'long black' (crema remains intact).

Either way, just make the finest espresso you can muster..then add hot water to taste


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Strange how a long black looks better and seems to taste better too?! IMHO....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I thought an Americano had the espresso poured over the hot water to maintain crema?


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> I thought an Americano had the espresso poured over the hot water to maintain crema?


Nope, that's a long black


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

I thought a long black was where you have a coarse grind and pull a mug of water through the coffee. A lot of Americanos I've seen made pull the shot into the coffee.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Pulling water into the espresso can have a detrimental taste effect.

Where possible, try pulling the espresso into the desired amount of water.

A long black usually has less water (maybe an extra shot of water) than an Americano


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Lots of Americans are huge, so I suppose that a 12oz "americano" is quite small to them.....LOL


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

espressotechno said:


> Lots of Americans are huge, so I suppose that a 12oz "americano" is quite small to them.....LOL


haha, big gulp!


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I suppose there's no right and wrong with dosage and dilution. Maybe just slowly add water - tasting along the way - and stop when you reach a ratio you enjoy.

Americanos came into existence during the wars, when Americans in espresso prevalent Italy wanted something resembling a cup of filter coffee. So you could just replace your Gaggia with a drip machine


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

I add a double shot (60ml from a loaded double basket) to just over half a coffee mug of preboiled water and get good results. Sometimes I run the double long for some extra strength.

I've watched in Cafe Nero and they put 3 oversized singles into a large americano. Costa varies , I've seen espresso added to water and the entire cup run through the portafilta from start to finish.

Spence


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> I add a double shot (60ml from a loaded double basket) to just over half a coffee mug of preboiled water and get good results. Sometimes I run the double long for some extra strength.
> 
> I've watched in Cafe Nero and they put 3 oversized singles into a large americano. Costa varies , I've seen espresso added to water and the entire cup run through the portafilta from start to finish.
> 
> Spence


Yeah, I think an americano is probably seen by the majority as an espresso with hot water.

With my pedantic hat on, the Wiki entry for "Caffè Americano" is:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caff%C3%A8_Americano

This may or may not be historically accurate (but its fairly likely)

I think the original "americano" has been probably been bastardized over the years like everything else


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

aphelion said:


> Yeah, I think an americano is probably seen by the majority as an espresso with hot water.
> 
> With my pedantic hat on, the Wiki entry for "Caffè Americano" is:-
> 
> ...


Agreed, nice link, some good info there.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Americanos, almost more than lattes etc are such a thing of personal preference. My mate likes a double shot in about a 9-10oz cup. But in the same cup, my girlfriend can only take a single shot. Me, I just plain don't like americanos


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

shrink said:


> Americanos, almost more than lattes etc are such a thing of personal preference. My mate likes a double shot in about a 9-10oz cup. But in the same cup, my girlfriend can only take a single shot. Me, I just plain don't like americanos


Yeah, me neither

Wiki - "The drink consists of a single or double-shot of espresso combined with between 1 and 16 fluid ounces (30 - 470ml) of hot water."

Wow, that's an enormous variable!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Yeah. It's like British telecoms engineers. There sometime between 8 and 6


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

shrink said:


> Yeah. It's like British telecoms engineers. There sometime between 8 and 6


Yeah, don't get me started on that...


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

Well this has prompted some great discussion. Thanks to you all.

The wiki link was fantastic too. Many thanks indeed.

You may cringe but my fave Americano is a costa one with a dash of milk. I make it with water first and esspresso on top so it seems its actually a long black. I've tried maybe 5 or 6 different beans but can't get the same taste. I've just received some italia mocha beans so I'm gonna give them a thorough try with different shot/water sizes.


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## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

xtrashot7 said:


> Just having a re think about my dosages for my Americano coffee.
> 
> Can anyone put me right on what size of coffee shot in oz and what amount of beans in gms should be used for a 12oz mug. I've been using 15g of beans and pulling a shot of around 2.5oz. It doesn't taste like the coffee shop Americano that I crave.


I don't know what your coffee shop Americano tastes like, but here is a mathematical way of looking at your question:

Say you want 10.5 oz of beverage in your 12 oz mug. A comfortable strength for that coffee might be 1.4% (that's simply based on average preferred strength for brewed coffee). 10.5 oz times 1.4% is 0.147 oz. So you want 0.147 oz of dissolved coffee solids in your Americano. Converting ounces to grams, 0.147 oz times 28.3g/ounce is ~4.2 grams. Since a nicely balanced shot generally extracts about 19% of the dry grounds into the espresso, 4.2g of solids would require 4.2/0.19= ~22g of dry coffee.

Sounds to me like you are dosing too low. If you pulled a well balanced shot using a 22g dose, then added water to end up with 10.5 oz total, you might get something really good. Obviously you may prefer your Americano stronger or weaker than 1.4%, so you'd want to adjust to taste.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

AndyS said:


> Say you want 10.5 oz of beverage in your 12 oz mug. A comfortable strength for that coffee might be 1.4% (that's simply based on average preferred strength for brewed coffee). 10.5 oz times 1.4% is 0.147 oz. So you want 0.147 oz of dissolved coffee solids in your Americano. Converting ounces to grams, 0.147 oz times 28.3g/ounce is ~4.2 grams. Since a nicely balanced shot generally extracts about 19% of the dry grounds into the espresso, 4.2g of solids would require 4.2/0.19= ~22g of dry coffee.


Whoa!


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

AndyS said:


> I don't know what your coffee shop Americano tastes like, but here is a mathematical way of looking at your question:
> 
> Say you want 10.5 oz of beverage in your 12 oz mug. A comfortable strength for that coffee might be 1.4% (that's simply based on average preferred strength for brewed coffee). 10.5 oz times 1.4% is 0.147 oz. So you want 0.147 oz of dissolved coffee solids in your Americano. Converting ounces to grams, 0.147 oz times 28.3g/ounce is ~4.2 grams. Since a nicely balanced shot generally extracts about 19% of the dry grounds into the espresso, 4.2g of solids would require 4.2/0.19= ~22g of dry coffee.
> 
> Sounds to me like you are dosing too low. If you pulled a well balanced shot using a 22g dose, then added water to end up with 10.5 oz total, you might get something really good. Obviously you may prefer your Americano stronger or weaker than 1.4%, so you'd want to adjust to taste.










:good:wowzers. I'm off to try a heavier dose.


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

AndyS said:


> I don't know what your coffee shop Americano tastes like, but here is a mathematical way of looking at your question:
> 
> Say you want 10.5 oz of beverage in your 12 oz mug. A comfortable strength for that coffee might be 1.4% (that's simply based on average preferred strength for brewed coffee). 10.5 oz times 1.4% is 0.147 oz. So you want 0.147 oz of dissolved coffee solids in your Americano. Converting ounces to grams, 0.147 oz times 28.3g/ounce is ~4.2 grams. Since a nicely balanced shot generally extracts about 19% of the dry grounds into the espresso, 4.2g of solids would require 4.2/0.19= ~22g of dry coffee.
> 
> Sounds to me like you are dosing too low. If you pulled a well balanced shot using a 22g dose, then added water to end up with 10.5 oz total, you might get something really good. Obviously you may prefer your Americano stronger or weaker than 1.4%, so you'd want to adjust to taste.


I've upped to 20g dose and clearly better.


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## PaulN (Mar 10, 2011)

I Extract a triple (22g) into a mug of hot water previously ran from my machine. It works perfectly for me, Primes and warms the machine and gives great Americanos. I found 2 shots wasnt enough for a hefty mug.


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

PaulN said:


> I Extract a triple (22g) into a mug of hot water previously ran from my machine. It works perfectly for me, Primes and warms the machine and gives great Americanos. I found 2 shots wasnt enough for a hefty mug.


How do you fit that amount of coffee in the PF without not being able to twist it shut? When I've ground 20g in the past its mega tight. Then it chokes it for about 30 secs before taking an hour to drip through.

Has anyone else that loves the Americano styles found a particular bean that they're happy with? I've just started on Italia beans and found a stronger brew.

Would be interested to know what beans you all use.


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## hopsyturvy (Jan 7, 2013)

Changing the dose will change your extraction as well as your final dissolved solids in the cup. I'd say find the extraction that you like best as a double espresso, then dilute to taste as others have said, rather than targeting a solids concentration with the dose. Personally, I'd put a double into 6oz of water, but see what works for you.

All that said, 15g is pretty low for a double anyway...


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

hopsyturvy said:


> Changing the dose will change your extraction as well as your final dissolved solids in the cup. I'd say find the extraction that you like best as a double espresso, then dilute to taste as others have said, rather than targeting a solids concentration with the dose. Personally, I'd put a double into 6oz of water, but see what works for you.
> 
> All that said, 15g is pretty low for a double anyway...


The 15g dose has been retired. I'm pulling 20's.


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## peterphelan (Feb 17, 2013)

Glad I found this thread! ... I am new to home coffee making and, having just bought a Delonghi EC710 (and having also found this forum, discovered the limitations of the machine!) been trying all kinds of variations in an effort to get an Americano such as that which I have ordered in Costa and the like. 14 gms into my single cup now tastes a bit more like it!

I wondered where the name originated from. I must have American past life residue in me;







....







... since I too have always found the "Micky Mouse" little espresso cups served abroad frustrating.

Peter


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

peterphelan said:


> Glad I found this thread! ... I am new to home coffee making and, having just bought a Delonghi EC710 (and having also found this forum, discovered the limitations of the machine!) been trying all kinds of variations in an effort to get an Americano such as that which I have ordered in Costa and the like. 14 gms into my single cup now tastes a bit more like it!
> 
> I wondered where the name originated from. I must have American past life residue in me;
> 
> ...


Hi Peter

Thought it was just me with a costa Americano fetish.

Hope this helps.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffè_Americano#section_

Craig.


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## peterphelan (Feb 17, 2013)

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the link; I feel a bit better knowing the preparation is open to interpretation and individual taste. I like mine quite strong. And came to the Americano years ago, after complaining to the owner of my regular haunt "The Rendezvous" about the poor quality of coffee I was served in some other restautants and could not understand how British people could even drink this instant stuff! All of which it seemed to me, only added to the dreadful reputation we Brits have amongst "foreigners" for our lousy food etc.

His tip was to ask for "an Americano" saying that this would enure my drink was freshly made and not come from a large coffee pot that had been sitting on a hob for hours.

Now, having found this forum and seen me spend literally hours "pouring" over all the interesting threads, digesting the vaulable info here and seeing various boxes containing hand roasted coffee, SS milk jug, knock box, tamping mat etc. arrive my wife thinks I am nuts! And measuring the diameter of my basket and saying it was an odd 51mm wide and needed a Google search to source this size of tamper today, only confirmed her suspicions!

She is enjoying the Cappaccinos I am serving her now, but I am not mentioning the subject of burr grinders at the moment!









Peter


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## xtrashot7 (Oct 4, 2012)

peterphelan said:


> Hi Craig,
> 
> Thanks for the link; I feel a bit better knowing the preparation is open to interpretation and individual taste. I like mine quite strong. And came to the Americano years ago, after complaining to the owner of my regular haunt "The Rendezvous" about the poor quality of coffee I was served in some other restautants and could not understand how British people could even drink this instant stuff! All of which it seemed to me, only added to the dreadful reputation we Brits have amongst "foreigners" for our lousy food etc.
> 
> ...


I'm with you 100%. My wife thinks I'm a coffee nut job too. I've started with an inexpensive porlex hand grinder for now which grinds what I need perfectly. It's a slow 3-4 minute pain in the butt event though.

I've earmarked an ibirital for the future but its not essential for this minute.

This will make you jealous tho- I have a costa coffee shop contact. Dare to say my home made coffees taste exactly like my costa counterparts. Must be the beans.


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## peterphelan (Feb 17, 2013)

>>my home made coffees taste exactly like my costa counterparts

Mmmmm .....Veeery "interestingk" .... yep; must be the beans eh!

Any grinder for me will have to wait; I read all the advice on the hand versions. And although I do not drink that many cups each day, I think I would quickly tire of having to hand grind for each session. But working the lever on the side of one of those grinders that dispense directly into the portafilter - as shown in Outlaw333's "Espresso prep a la Strangebean" video would be kind of "cool" ! Which model is this?

Peter


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## peterphelan (Feb 17, 2013)

Having found this on the wiki, it seems like I have been making a "Caffe Crema" at home rather than an Americano most of the time.

>>Swiss drink

The term "caffè crema" also refers to a long espresso drink, popular since the 1980s in southern Switzerland and northern Italy. It is generally served as the standard "café traditionnel" in Belgium. It is produced by running 180 ml-240 ml (6-8 oz) of water when brewing an espresso, primarily by using a coarser grind. It is similar to an americano or a long black, except that these latter are diluted espresso, and consist of making ("pulling") a normal (short) espresso shot and combining it with unbrewed hot water. By contrast, a caffè crema extracts differently, and thus has a different flavor profile.

As a long, brewed rather than diluted, espresso, caffè crema is the long end of the range ristretto, normale, lungo, caffè crema, and is significantly longer than a lungo, generally twice as long. Rough brewing ratios of ristretto, normale, lungo, and caffè crema are 1:2:3:6[3] - a doppio ristretto will be approximately 1 oz/30 ml (crema increases the volume), normale 2 oz/60 ml, lungo 3 oz/90 ml, and caffè crema 6 oz/180 ml. However, volumes of caffè crema can vary significantly, from 4-8 oz (120 ml-240 ml) for a double shot, depending on how it is brewed and taste, and there is no widely agreed standard measure in the Anglosphere. In terms of solubles concentration, a caffè crema is approximately midway between a lungo and non-pressure brewed coffee, such as drip or press.[3]

The motivation for the caffè crema is that it produces a traditional large cup of coffee, just as brewed coffee does: the small size of espresso is due to the original Gaggia lever espresso machine of 1948 requiring manual pressure, and thus a single (solo) espresso of 30 ml was the maximum that could practically be extracted. The development of pump-driven espresso in the 1961 Faema removed this restriction, but by then a taste had developed for the short espresso, and these continued to be produced on the new machines, long caffè crema only emerging in the 1980s.

The caffè crema is not a common drink in the Anglosphere, and is virtually never available in cafés due to the need to significantly change the grind compared to standard espresso. Cafés instead serve Americanos or long blacks. The caffè crema was briefly used in Australia in the 1980s, but was replaced by the long black.[2]

Brewing method

As the caffè crema is very uncommon in the Anglosphere, and not widely available outside of home brewing, there are few English-language resources on how to brew it, nor consistency in what precisely is understood by this. What is generally done is to coarsen the grind, but otherwise extract in much the same way as espresso, stopping the shot when it blonds, as is usual for espresso - the coarser grind resulting in greater volume, but the extraction taking approximately the same time (25-30 seconds).[2][3] Some variants include tamping less or extracting for slightly longer (35-40 seconds), and coarser grinds generally result is less mass of grinds fitting into a given filter basket, leading some to prefer using triple-shot baskets to allow sufficient coffee.

One can make a caffè crema in a commercial setting by using the existing filter grind, which is approximately correct, in the espresso machine and otherwise brewing normally, but this would be a very unusual request.

Still experimenting!









Peter


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