# ALL Coffee beans "old, stale and dead" 1 week after roasting? HELP



## DPH (Oct 15, 2014)

Hi all,

I've just watched this TED talk video on youtube:






Do you agree with what this guy is saying that any coffee used after 7 days from when it was roasted is "old, stale and dead?"

I checked the bag of "fresh" coffee beans I bought yesterday from my local speciality coffee shop and the beans were roasted on the 24th Sep (15th October today).

So is this coffee not worth drinking? This guy seems pretty convinced that no matter what kind of "space age method" you use to store your coffee, after 7 days the beans are DEAD.

Thoughts on this would be appreciated. I'm into my coffee and enjoy making it (just purchased an aeropress, very happy with it) but ideally I don't want to feel like I need to start roasting my own beans!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

He is a fool, ignore him.


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## DPH (Oct 15, 2014)

Appreciate your response but it's hard to dismiss one persons opinion in favour of another persons opinion. Would like to know if his assertions are based on any facts or evidence, or similarly if there's any facts or evidence which disagree with what he's saying.

Thanks again.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You would have to ask him what he bases that on.

Me, i base it on the fact i drink beans from day 3 to day 14 after roasting, i roast at home.

You can tell when a bean is dead, usually at the grinding stage, but almost defiantly at the pouring stage and beans i roast grind, pour and taste just fine at 2 weeks.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

They should be OK but are nearing the end of their best period. Whether you continue yo buy there is personal choice. Personally I wouldn't . That roster may rotate stock our after 4 weeks he may not. I prefer to buy from roasters who provide fresher beans as I like to use for brewed as well as espresso . Brewed needs no rest period for example.

Ask the roaster , it may be a genuine mistake on their part.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> You would have to ask him what he bases that on.
> 
> Me, i base it on the fact i drink beans from day 3 to day 14 after roasting, i roast at home.
> 
> You can tell when a bean is dead, usually at the grinding stage, but almost defiantly at the pouring stage and beans i roast grind, pour and taste just fine at 2 weeks.


It may take the op three - four weeks to drink from purchase. Beans are already 3 weeks old before opening.

They are then drinking 7-8weeks old beans. Still fresh ?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> It may take the op three - four weeks to drink from purchase. Beans are already 3 weeks old before opening.
> 
> They are then drinking 7-8weeks old beans. Still fresh ?


But that's not what the OP asked...

'Do you agree with what this guy is saying that any coffee used after 7 days from when it was roasted is "old, stale and dead?"'

So we must bin all beans that are at day 8 after roasting??? No.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> But that's not what the OP asked...
> 
> 'Do you agree with what this guy is saying that any coffee used after 7 days from when it was roasted is "old, stale and dead?"'
> 
> So we must bin all beans that are at day 8 after roasting??? No.


I agree you don't bin them at 7 days. These aren't 7 days old tho n, they are 3 weeks. I still wouldn't bin them.

I also am uncomfortable buying beans 3 weeks past roast date , for the reasons I have stated ...


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You, Me and most of us know better, 3 days max after roasting is as much as we want to go.


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## DPH (Oct 15, 2014)

Realisitically then, (assuming I am ruling out roasting my own beans) do coffee shops/roasters sell beans which are roasted 'on the day' or within that 3-7 day window? Or are they usually always older than this by the time they are "on the shelf". As i'm new I don't know whether my 3 week old coffee beans are rare or common. Would be good to know.

Thanks again.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

A good roaster will roast to order, then ship to you same day/next day.

Have a look at the roaster section here.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?1656-UK-Based-Roasters


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Some retail outlets or cafes will stock a roasters beans ( not roast on site ). They then rotate the stock as they see fit...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

DPH said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've just watched this TED talk video on youtube:
> 
> ...



He is not correct

How long coffee will keep can be reduced by how it is treated after roasting

Shock horror, some beans you buy are not fresh,

Sometimes coffee will be roasted, placed in large bags or clip top containers then opened then repacked perhaps days later (bad practice as coffee dies faster when repacked)

Badly roasted coffee might not keep as well


*If coffee is packed in a 1 way valve PET Foil valve bag (the only way, it may be papery on outside but should always have PET barrier), within a few hours of roasting, it is ready to drink from 3-6 days from roasting depending on coffee and level of roast. Usually peaks for a number of days around day 7 to 14 and slowly declines after that, but is still pretty good up to 4 weeks after roasting.* Theres really no ifs buts or maybes about this....trust your taste and if the coffee your buying tastes significantly worse at 3 weeks old...try another roaster.

P.S. Don't buy from open boxes, tins or anything else even if roast date is recent, as it's usually dying, will die faster when repacked even properly and often you get it in a cheap paper bag with no valve and just taped over.


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## DPH (Oct 15, 2014)

Ah good news then mines as mines is in a paper bag but it's foil on the inside and it does have a little valve thing on the back, so hopefully that's kept it somehwat fresh. Didn't cost me too much so will just ensure the beans I buy going forward have a roast date that is as recent as I can find.

Cheers everyone.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

If you order online expect 1-3 days old (1 for bigger operations like HasBean, 3 for smaller ones).

In a specialty coffee shop it varies a lot, I certainly have seen bags on the shelf 3 days post roast and I've seen a lot older. A GOOD speciality coffee shop shouldn't be selling beans older than about 2 weeks IMHO, unless they / the roaster know that it is still going to be good for a while yet.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ken is talking out of his arse, most beans need 7 days just to rest and then as has been said by Dave will have a good two week window of optimum taste.


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## gingerneil (Aug 21, 2014)

My 1kg of Sig Blend from Rave is sitting unopened in my cupboard - roasting date 10/10. I'll be opening them over the weekend as they'll have had a reasonable resting time. The bag came almost vacuum sealed - its since puffed right up as the CO2 is released from the beans as they approach their best state post roasting. They most certainly wont be dead,dull etc etc by Friday (7 days post roast)!

PS - Rave were excellent. Ordered lunchtime Friday, roasted in the batch that day and delivered Saturday morning. Almost too fresh as I've had to leave them to rest!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I give the bags a squeeze every day, just to release the gas...


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## gingerneil (Aug 21, 2014)

Is there a benefit to doing that, or just an excuse to inhale some coffee flavoured gas ?!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

ahhhh just watched the video on my phone...

I get now why he is saying this, he has built a roaster, that looks shocking and wants to get every cafe to buy one fearing the coffee they buy at the minute is old and bad...

Love a good sales pitch!


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I happily use beans that are months old, BUT I want to decide how fresh they are when I use them.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

gingerneil said:


> Is there a benefit to doing that, or just an excuse to inhale some coffee flavoured gas ?!


ha yeah i do like a good sniff!

Sure i read somewhere its best to get the gas away from beans if possible, maybe not, but it cant hurt.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

I remember watching this about a year ago. My initial response was 'wtf is he on about?'. Then I got to the bit where he's trying to sell home roasting machines and realised he had manipulated the truth to make the roaster seem more necessary/desirable.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

smokeybarn said:


> I remember watching this about a year ago. My initial response was 'wtf is he on about?'. Then I got to the bit where he's trying to sell home roasting machines and realised he had manipulated the truth to make the roaster seem more necessary/desirable.


I didn't watch the Video, but I went back and forced myself...I came to 3 conclusions.

1. Asher Yaron needs a big cup of STFU and he looks like one of those cheap sales people at markets selling towels or cutlery in a fake auction.

2. He doesn't know didley about roasting

3. I must ensure I go to the toilet before 9m 51s into the Video, because I shit myself laughing (I kid you not) when he did the reveal.

I could say more, but don't want to come across as harsh....even though I just lost nearly 11 minutes of my life I will never get back.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I don't know, i think the fella is misunderstood!

'Asher has perfected a system that serves both the wholesale and retail customer, uses coffee in his Cafe's that is *always *roasted within 24 hours, and has ZERO waste!'


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

That chap is seriously out of touch with the real world. I only start to use a bag at the shop after an absolute minimum of 8 days rest from roast date.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Didn't watch the vid but I want to ask this question.

IF the beans are dead at 7 days can you explain this, tried Rave Sig blend at 7 days tasted just ok, after 10 days tasted great. If the beans were dead surely this maturing would not happen.

Ian


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Eyedee said:


> Didn't watch the vid but I want to ask this question.
> 
> IF the beans are dead at 7 days can you explain this, tried Rave Sig blend at 7 days tasted just ok, after 10 days tasted great. If the beans were dead surely this maturing would not happen.
> 
> Ian


Rigor mortis setting in


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

I've watched the vid and was really impressed. That machine looks awesome. Who's going to arrange the group deal? Anyone?


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

I actually had an argument with my bro-in-law about this at the time. I told him this presentation is a load of crap, to which he replied "But! -It must be true!... It's on Ted Talks!"


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

The key thing here is the little x after TED "x=independantly organised talks" and is shown at the start of the video, so not TED talks at all. Same manner as iEverything has been adopted from Apples iProducts.

Saw this last year and thought at the time WTF was he waffling on abouth and was gob smacked when the BBQ was rolled out, penny dropped and stopped watching.

I roast myself and would concur lousy for anything post 2 days, v60 just about on day 3 (4 better), Aeropress 4 and finally won't use it as espresso before 6-7 days and for the darker roasts (OBJ / MM / Aceh) at least 10 days. Once started in on a bag never last more than 2 days so can't comment on any degredation once opened, doesn't get a chance!

Interestingly took advantage of the Hasbean Cup of Excellence offer that tailed off at 21 days post roast with the seal broken the day before ( roasted beans are endangered in our house...)

Just my tuppence worth and nothing not said above by more learned members than me.

John


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## Big_Fat_Dan (Aug 21, 2014)

I'm a tight arse, I hate waste so I will drink coffee until the bag is finished, normally takes a month, yeah, it isn't at it's best but still tastes ok.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

These Ted have a big mouth and like the sound of his own voice, most of these words are ....

I roast on a Giesen w6 and roast slow and most of the time quite lite, just before the second crack in the cooler, these light roasts take around 10 days to develope optimal taste and hold this over a month, after this time the taste wil be stil good enough for the most people,exept for Ted ;-)

I do have a coffeetrailer and this is for me the way to roast and my public is appriciated my coffees very wel.

Adriaan from the Netherlands


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## mean_beanmachine (Aug 5, 2014)

Hi there.

I run a coffee company and have done for 5 years. It's all about oxidation , heat and light. If you irradicate those things as much as possible you can keep the coffee at a good quality for 1-2 weeks depending on blend and bean . For ground a matter of days as the surface area increases the oxidation will increase. So in short no heat or light. Use a bag with a one way valve so you can squeeze as much air out as possible then store in a cool dark place. The coffee gradually goes off after the 2 week point and I've noticed it to be directly proportional. So for every day after 2 weeks there is a slight taste change and reduction in cream if you make espresso. It is pretty gradual if you stick to the above. This guy is obviously an obsessed clown!


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## mean_beanmachine (Aug 5, 2014)

Crema bloody predictive text ??


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

C'mon, you all know you want one of those BBQ roasters.


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## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> He is a fool, ignore him.


He sounds really condescending, who is he?

The way he threw the cherries into the audience, i'd throw it back and aim for his eye.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> I give the bags a squeeze every day, just to release the gas...


Like farthing.


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## mean_beanmachine (Aug 5, 2014)

Jeebsy I agree with your comment. Strange thing is we get a lot of complaints from our coffee being too fresh in fact. We have had to reverse rotate on some of the stock to keep some customers happy ensuring that the coffee is aged slightly. If you try coffee closer to roasting the flavours are more lively. However in a coffee shop they are aiming for consistency not variance. Since this issue I have tried coffees at different time frames and to be honest some improve some do not variety is the spice of life as they say. I agree about the salesman comment too. I felt like I'd gone to my mother in laws and was being forced to watch QVC!


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## Tear (Oct 23, 2014)

This is my first posting so forgive me if I've missed something! Anyway, out here in Vienna we really don't have so many independent coffee bean roasters any more as most have been swallowed by the big German producers. However, one of the oldest companies in this area is Santora who have existed since 1899 and they supply most of the top coffee houses and five star hotels. They pre-pack the coffee after roasting, as much as several tons of beans per week. It just so happens that the Chief Roaster (Yes, there is such a guy!) is my neighbour and I've had a conducted tour of the old facility in Vienna last year with a promise to visit the new premises in the new year. I've also asked him about storing coffee and the shelf life as such. He confirms that the one-way-valve is essential on the packet and when opened it should be resealed and placed in an air-tight container and should be kept in a cool place, or in a refrigerator. Hotels sometimes use a part of the wine coolers for this purpose.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Tear said:


> This is my first posting so forgive me if I've missed something! Anyway, out here in Vienna we really don't have so many independent coffee bean roasters any more as most have been swallowed by the big German producers. However, one of the oldest companies in this area is Santora who have existed since 1899 and they supply most of the top coffee houses and five star hotels. They pre-pack the coffee after roasting, as much as several tons of beans per week. It just so happens that the Chief Roaster (Yes, there is such a guy!) is my neighbour and I've had a conducted tour of the old facility in Vienna last year with a promise to visit the new premises in the new year. I've also asked him about storing coffee and the shelf life as such. He confirms that the one-way-valve is essential on the packet and when opened it should be resealed and placed in an air-tight container and should be kept in a cool place, or in a refrigerator. Hotels sometimes use a part of the wine coolers for this purpose.


Coffee should never be stored in a fridge, ever. In a cool dark dry place is fine, but not too cool.

I also disagree about the one way valve to some extent, if you buy small and regular so the coffee is used up within ~4 weeks of roasting as long as the bag is rolled down I don't think it makes that much difference. Some proper tests are needed on that one though, but certainly when I was buying from Caffenation in bags without a valve there was no noticeable deterioration in this timeframe.

It's just not true about independent roasters, there's more more than ever around the world. The difference is the commodity roasters like your neighbour are a lot more well known, whilst the speciality ones are smaller and lower profile.

Bonanza in Germany is a good example of a growing speciality roaster and well worth checking out, as are Caffenation in Belgium.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

There's loads of good wee roasters in Germany


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Anyone who attends these American style TV Presenter session is mad. They used to be very popular on Shopping Channels. An enthusiastic audience are roped in with the promise of possibly appearing on tv, receiving discount vouchers etc etc. Do you think if for example, they had used an audience of forum members, someone might not have challenged the bearded idiot? When you are selling, everything that is not yours to sell is rubbish whilst your product is the bees knees.


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## JCF (Nov 12, 2014)

I think that most of the Coffee Beans in Market are well over 7 days, in fact, almost all. The closer the time from Roasting to Grinding to Drinking obviously the Fresher the Coffee.


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## cappuccino crackers (Mar 12, 2014)

forgive me its been a while but if you have a bag of beans from a place and it has a use by date of 6 months from roast date then why is it that long if everyone saying it should be consumed within a couple of weeks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The bag in front of me says "Best within 4 weeks, but enjoy within 3 months".

I'm not sure who is saying to use within 2 weeks, unless that is your preference. As the coffee ages it degasses & this may affect how easy, or not, it is to extract. You may have a slightly wider practical window with immersion methods compared to drip & espresso. It can start tasting stale sooner than 4 weeks from opening the bag, a few days in some cases depending on the packaging & how long the coffee has been sat after roasting.

Freezing & nitrogen flushing can extend shelf life too.


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## cappuccino crackers (Mar 12, 2014)

wat if in foil bag with valve and unopened and squeezed regularly


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hard to say...if it's months from roasting, without any kind of preservation, may still be drinkable in a French press or similar...not sure the odds would be good for espresso. I might not get around to a bag 2 weeks or so from roast date & take a week to finish it, no worries there.

I'd always brew it up & see what it's like before throwing it out.


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