# Syphon Coffee



## The Systemic Kid

Syphon coffee brewing doesn't seem to get the same attention afforded to other methods possibly because it appears complicated, expensive or a faff. And yet syphon is none of these. Syphon brewing makes superb clean tasting coffee getting the very best out of the bean.

So here's a thread where members can share their experiences and knowledge and ask questions if you're thinking about giving it a go.

Would be good if we had some videos uploaded too.


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## Phil104

Thank you for starting this systemic kid. I've started assembling my kit - the syphon arrived on Saturday (superfast delivery), I hope to get the burner tomorrow but I'm undecided about going down the glass rod route or the paper filter route. I certainly look forward to sharing experiences and moving pictures.


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## The Systemic Kid

Forum member, siphonist will upload some tests he's been doing using different techniques - sounds really interesting.

My method is:

- 1:17 dose ratio - 30grms - 500grms water preheated water. Coffee is coarse sand consistency - am using the paper as opposed to the cloth filter.

- Heat the lower chamber until it starts bubbling then lock upper chamber into place

- As the water begins to rise, back off the heat but not too much. Once all the water is in the upper chamber, check the temp. Aiming for around 95c. If it's too high, I stir vigorously to get some air in - this will bring the temp down a degree or so.

- Load the coffee and stir to make sure the grinds are saturated. After 30 secs, stir again to make sure grinds aren't trapped in the crema.

- At 60 secs, cut the heat altogether. Wait until the draw down begins, then very gently stir the grinds - but not too much.

- Total time is a round 2min 30sec - 2min 45sec.


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## Neill

I'll have to crack out the siphon this week then. Haven't used it in a long time. I've the cloth filters. Time to use a fresh one.


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## FullBloomCoffee

Ive got all of my Syphon kit ready from deliveries over the last week, although my mini butane burner nearly touches the glass so until I can somehow raise the syphon i can't use it


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## malling

> Syphon coffee brewing doesn't seem to get the same attention afforded to other methods possibly because it appears complicated


Syphon brew did get some attention 4-5 years ago, and that attention draw me too it, back then. but I haven't used it for the last couple of years, as it where a bit more complicated and time consuming then other brewing methods (Aeropress, V60)

I used to fill the lower part with preheated water, as that cut down the waiting time. And I more or less followed the same procedure as you described above.

I got the paper filters for it, as I forgot to keep the cloth wet.


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## benanderson18

I have only just seen this method last week and very interested in it. The full kit isn't to expensive either. Whats the taste like that you get out of it. Will I see a difference from aeropress and this method. Im not one for picking the difference chocolate/peach/apricot etc etc tastes out of coffee though


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## The Systemic Kid

Of all the pour over methods, V60, Chemex, etc, syphon is the cleanest tasting and quite different to immersion techniques like Aeropress.


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## Siphonist

Hi there and thanks to The Systemic Kid for starting this thread! I hope the following comparison is of interest to you, it was really fun and educating for me .

To say a bit of the background, I introduced myself to this forum not so long ago and early on had a discussion concerning siphon preparation methods. It turned out that the one I'm used to is quite different to what The Systemic Kid described above in this thread. My method can be summarised as follows:

- Grind fairly fine, almost approaching espresso

- Dosing 1:20, I typically use 20 gr coffee and 400 gr water

- Load the grinds on the filter

- Bring the water to boil

- Close the top chamber to the bottom bowl, let the hot water rise through the grinds to the top

- Stir gently but quickly when the water permeates the grinds to wet them completely

- Turn the heat so low that there is only a small simmering in the upper chamber, let brew for 90 sec

- After this time, turn off the heat

- Stir the coffee with a circular motion (I use a bamboo spoon) until the vacuum starts to suck the coffee back to the bottom bowl. When you achieve a steady rotation a nice cone of grinds will form on the filter.

- Total time is on the same ballpark as in The Systemic Kid's method, about 2min 30 sec (with a metal filter).

What I set out to do is a small comparison between these methods and to see how the similarities and differences relate to the resulting coffee. I only have thus far made one true comparison with simultaneous brewing and blind tasting using two siphons, but plan to extend this to include more coffee varieties. (As it takes about a litre of coffee each time around and I'm the sole coffee drinker in the household, you probably can imagine that I can't perform the duplicates and tweaks on a very fast schedule, though .)

But, enough of the rambling and on to the test. I tried the methods with a similar dose of 20gr coffee, 400gr water for both. Filters were new cloth filters by Hario. I used a Hario Skerton grinder, for the method by The Systemic Kid (I abbreviate this TSK method later on) the grind setting was 4 notches coarser than for mine (later on MP method). For TSK method the initial brew temperature was 96 degC.

TSK method was tested using Hario SCA-5 siphon and butane burner, MP method with a Hario TCA-5 and ethanol burner. Overall, the testing went surprisingly smoothly considering there were two different processes to take care of simultaneously . The total brew time for TSK method was 156 sec, for MP 190 sec. I'm guessing that the cloth filter makes the brew time a bit longer than the metal filter I normally use.

Well, what's in the cup then? Both methods produced to my palate a balanced brew without excess acidity or bitterness. The coffee I used was from Sidamo (Yrgalem, see pics on the next post), a fairly mellow, medium roasted washed SO with nonetheless observable citrus/acidic notes.

Taste and scent-wise the methods provided both similar and different notes in the cup. The TSK method produced a bit more delicate cup with more separated acids and bitters. The MP method showed the same taste characteristics but a more pronounced, even espresso-ish body in between. Also the scent with MP was somewhat stronger and more condensed. (On a side note I have used the same coffee with my Riviera lever as a straight espresso, and I'm quite convinced that the same flavours are there as well, albeit in a yet much more condensed form.)

The difference in mouthfeel and scent between the siphon methods can perhaps be attributed to TDS, which I determined gravimetrically (and somewhat crudely) afterwards. TSK method showed a TDS of about 20 %, MP method about 25 % (both values +- 2%). However, this determination lacked a detailed knowledge of the initial moisture content of the grinds and the numbers should be taken to represent maximum values.

All in all, I hope this post demonstrates something of the great versatility of siphon brewing. We may have fairly greatly differing modus operandi for the brewing, but nonetheless the resulting coffee seems to catch the same essential taste and scent features of the roasted beans in a balanced, pleasant, (but technique-specific) form.

For some reason I'm not able to upload pics of the test to this thread. I'll make a reply and try again . Thanks to all to bearing up with this long description, more is certain to follow as the testing proceeds... I just ordered 2 kg of various Ethiopian natural coffees from HasBean, so it should keep me busy and caffeinated .

Cheers,

Marko


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## Siphonist

Ok, here's another try on the pics:

1. Equipment ready for the action










2. Coffee and the grinds, TSK on the left, MP on the right



















3. My "boys" at work. (For the record, the more feminine attributes related to coffee in the house are reserved for the espresso machines )










4. Blind tasting (my wife kindly did the honours of pouring and presenting)

- can you guess based on TDS, which is which?


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## Neill

Sounds good Marko, thanks for the detailed write up.

The only thing I do find with siphon is that it's very hot when first made and takes some time to cool.


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## Neill

That sommelier syphon looks awesome.


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## Mrboots2u

Siphonist said:


> Ok, here's another try on the pics:
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> 1. Equipment ready for the action
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> 2. Coffee and the grinds, TSK on the left, MP on the right
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> 3. My "boys" at work. (For the record, the more feminine attributes related to coffee in the house are reserved for the espresso machines )
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> 4. Blind tasting (my wife kindly did the honours of pouring and presenting)
> 
> - can you guess based on TDS, which is which?


Are you mixing up tds with extraction yield ? ( 20 % ?

How are you measuring the TDS?


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## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> Sounds good Marko, thanks for the detailed write up.
> 
> The only thing I do find with siphon is that it's very hot when first made and takes some time to cool.


Agree with that Neil. I decant it into an empty Chemex to speed up cooling.


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Agree with that Neil. I decant it into an empty Chemex to speed up cooling.


I might try decanting it in to a hario decanter. It has thin walls, should cool pretty quicker.


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## Siphonist

Hi Mrboots, thanks for the question! The TDS (or at least what I presume to be that... ) was measured gravimetrically from the grinds. Basically I weighed the grinds first before brewing, then oven-dried the spent pucks at low heat (150 degC) for about an hour and weighed them again. If one supposes that the residual moisture is evaporated during the heat treatment and no compounds from the grinds go along with it (and that the initial moisture content is more or less known), the weight ratio should give the amount of solids dissolved into the coffee. Error analyses were made taking into account the scale accuracy 0.05 gr and a 2% fluctuation in moisture content. Had to think a bit about that, it's been a few years since I last time used the error propagation formula .

Thanks also to Neill for the kind comment on the Sommelier. Since purchasing it about a year ago it's been my standard siphon and designated go-to brewer for weekend coffee. I think compared to the Technika the design is a bit more forgiving in terms of actual use, and it looks very nice on top of that . The price wasn't so bad either, if I remember right I got mine for about 150 Eur.


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## malling

Neill said:


> Sounds good Marko, thanks for the detailed write up.
> 
> The only thing I do find with siphon is that it's very hot when first made and takes some time to cool.


you could try swirling the coffee it brings the temperature down, faster then you might think.


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## Neill

Siphonist said:


> Thanks also to Neill for the kind comment on the Sommelier. Since purchasing it about a year ago it's been my standard siphon and designated go-to brewer for weekend coffee. I think compared to the Technika the design is a bit more forgiving in terms of actual use, and it looks very nice on top of that . The price wasn't so bad either, if I remember right I got mine for about 150 Eur.


That's a good price. I think it's £200 in the UK. I like the look of the hario next as well.


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## Neill

I gave the TSK technique a go this morning. I have a 3 cup hario so 22g in 360ml. Went 2 full turns out on the hausgrind, on reflection this was too much as I would normally use this for 30g in a 500ml chemex. It finished drawing down at 1.45, well short of your times TSK but it still tastes pretty good although could be a little under extracted. I'd forgotten the clarity. It's actually quite similar to the Kalita wave I had been using for this coffee. I think my problem is the cloth filters which do start to taint the flavour. I might pick up the paper setup.


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## Steve7

My hausgrind is fixed on about one and a half turns. Same as my clever grind. Seems very tolerant of grind, and the only issue is going too fine and slowing it all down.

I brew for 2.5 mins then draw down to maybe 3.5 finish. Cups are consistently great. I rarely worry about the exact timings, and tend to stick to the usual ratio of coffee to water (the Yama syphon has some lines on it but I tend to add by weight for the water as it is more easy to get right).


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## MWJB

Siphonist said:


> Hi Mrboots, thanks for the question! The TDS (or at least what I presume to be that... ) was measured gravimetrically from the grinds. Basically I weighed the grinds first before brewing, then oven-dried the spent pucks at low heat (150 degC) for about an hour and weighed them again. If one supposes that the residual moisture is evaporated during the heat treatment and no compounds from the grinds go along with it (and that the initial moisture content is more or less known), the weight ratio should give the amount of solids dissolved into the coffee. Error analyses were made taking into account the scale accuracy 0.05 gr and a 2% fluctuation in moisture content. Had to think a bit about that, it's been a few years since I last time used the error propagation formula .


That won't quite work, it will only give you total brew solids, as it can't differentiate between dissolved solids (the basis used for extraction yield) and non-dissolved solids. Carry on, by all means if you find it useful to you, but your calculations aren't going to be comparable to extraction yield.


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## Beanosaurus

Today I used TSKs method and went for 21g of Rave Nicaragua Bosque with 350g of water.

Time was 2:00 and I think a fair bit underextracted.

Brew tasted okay though I forgot about the silt!


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## Neill

Beanosaurus said:


> Today I used TSKs method and went for 21g of Rave Nicaragua Bosque with 350g of water.
> 
> Time was 2:00 and I think a fair bit underextracted.
> 
> Brew tasted okay though I forgot about the silt!


What filters are you using. I don't get any silt with the cloth filters.


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## Phil104

Following Systemic Kid's recommendation, just been to buy a butane burner from Espresso Products, having realised that they are about 15 minutes away. What great little family, set-up, very friendly and helpful.

http://www.espresso-products.co.uk/coffee-brewing/coffee-syphons-syphon-spares/butane-syphon-burner


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## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> What filters are you using. I don't get any silt with the cloth filters.


No silt with the paper filters.


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## Siphonist

With a metal filter I do get a small amount of deposits (especially with my method of rather fine grind), but the design of the Sommelier makes it easy to leave them in the carafe when pouring. I actually like the slightly thicker mouthfeel I get using the metal filter compared to the cloth one .


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## Beanosaurus

Neill said:


> What filters are you using. I don't get any silt with the cloth filters.


I used paper, but I'm very new to brewing Syphon - wouldn't even say I've made more than half a dozen of them.

If there's a sure fire way to eliminate sediment then I'm all ears.


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## The Systemic Kid

Beano - are you getting silt in your syphon brews?


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## Beanosaurus

The Systemic Kid said:


> Beano - are you getting silt in your syphon brews?


Yes, not a great deal but it is prevalent.

From what I can see there is a considerable amount of turbulence at the filter holder, its just bopping around like its at the Hacienda - I'm using a butane burner by the way.


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## The Systemic Kid

How fine are you grinding? Can you expand on the turbulence bit.


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## Neill

Make sure the filter is pulled completely flat to the base bean. Once the water is in the top chamber if it's moving up and down and letting large bubbles through on one side then use the stirrer to push it across a bit until it's completely flat.


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## Jedi oh

Great thread, thanks. My syphon maker arrived today so will be watching this with interest.


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## Beanosaurus

The Systemic Kid said:


> How fine are you grinding? Can you expand on the turbulence bit.


My intent was for a medium-coarse filter grind but came out towards the coarser side of things. (Using Vario w/Steel Burrs).

I'll try and get that filter flat, probs should back off on the gas when it comes up to temp as well.

Looks like a bloody turbo lava lamp, can't be good.


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## Neill

Beanosaurus said:


> My intent was for a medium-coarse filter grind but came out towards the coarser side of things. (Using Vario w/Steel Burrs).
> 
> I'll try and get that filter flat, probs should back off on the gas when it comes up to temp as well.
> 
> Looks like a bloody turbo lava lamp, can't be good.


Yeah, drop the heat when full so there's nice even bubbles coming up.

Here's an old video I took a few years back. Sorry about the screaming child in the background.


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## Beanosaurus

My burner seems to be turbo, may have to experiment with the openness of the valve to find the sweet spot.


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## The Systemic Kid

Another syphon video


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Another syphon video


Excellent, much better than my old shaky one.


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## Steve7

Silt?

never had a drop, ever. Not a trace.

And that's with a glass rod.


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## Siphonist

MWJB said:


> That won't quite work, it will only give you total brew solids, as it can't differentiate between dissolved solids (the basis used for extraction yield) and non-dissolved solids. Carry on, by all means if you find it useful to you, but your calculations aren't going to be comparable to extraction yield.


Talking about extraction yield, total brew vs. dissolved solids and what makes up the flavor and mouthfeel of coffee (and hence should be determined) reminds me of a couple of threads from some time ago over at H-B (http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/drying-coffee-pucks-in-oven-t28828.html, http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/coffee-extraction-yield-total-brew-solids-vs-total-dissolved-solids-t29089.html). In my posting, I was only trying to demonstrate the difference in what happens to the grinds in our methods and whether I saw something that could correlate to the difference I noted especially in mouthfeel. I was wrong in calling the percentage of mass removed from the grinds as TDS, a mistake which for the record annoys the life out of the ex-researcher in me :-/.

The matter over TDS and TBS and extraction yield is a slightly controversial one with some differing (and even heated) opinions, but it's not my intention to start a new conversation on that. Let's just be happy and remain content with the fact that there are many ways of looking into the fascinating process of coffee extraction .

Back to the original idea of my post, namely method testing. Would any of you be willing to try out my method for comparison and to see what comes out? It would be truly valuable to me to also know your fresh impressions, since palates are different and to some extent influenced by prior experiences and preferences.


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## MWJB

Siphonist said:


> Talking about extraction yield, total brew vs. dissolved solids and what makes up the flavor and mouthfeel of coffee (and hence should be determined) reminds me of a couple of threads from some time ago over at H-B (http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/drying-coffee-pucks-in-oven-t28828.html, http://www.home-barista.com/knockbox/coffee-extraction-yield-total-brew-solids-vs-total-dissolved-solids-t29089.html). In my posting, I was only trying to demonstrate the difference in what happens to the grinds in our methods and whether I saw something that could correlate to the difference I noted especially in mouthfeel. I was wrong in calling the percentage of mass removed from the grinds as TDS, a mistake which for the record annoys the life out of the ex-researcher in me :-/.
> 
> The matter over TDS and TBS and extraction yield is a slightly controversial one with some differing (and even heated) opinions, but it's not my intention to start a new conversation on that. Let's just be happy and remain content with the fact that there are many ways of looking into the fascinating process of coffee extraction .
> 
> Back to the original idea of my post, namely method testing. Would any of you be willing to try out my method for comparison and to see what comes out? It would be truly valuable to me to also know your fresh impressions, since palates are different and to some extent influenced by prior experiences and preferences.


Extraction yield & dissolved solids vs total brew solids is in no way controversial, the methodology is 60+ years old, long predating that thread on H-B & internet forums. Mouthfeel is more down to TBS as TDS is probably unidentifiable in brewed coffee, by mouthfeel. But it's TDS that carries the flavour.


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## lgreenscbeans

It is great to hear about Syphon Coffee experiences here.

I think the same as in the fact that not a lot is made of, in terms of Syphon coffee, so me and my sister decided to use that for our afternoon coffee experience that we are starting in the next few weeks.

We are opening a new coffee tea shop in Archway, London and we will be offering special afternoon coffee experiences based on Syphon Coffee.

Will let you all know when we open and when people start noticing it but cannot wait to advocate the use of Syphon and its own character and taste


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## Jedi oh

I've just made my very first coffee using my new syphon maker. I had watched videos here and on YouTube that were very helpful but it was a bit of trial and error. Overall, I'm very pleased. This cup is a but strong but I'll get the ratio right soon I'm sure. I was quite exciting making my first coffee, so much more so than my bean to cup machine.


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## Jedi oh

Second cup much better. Very pleased.


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## Steve7

Follow the hasbean guide. Simples.

very Tolerant of grind too.


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## simontc

Feature on syphon in newest caffeine mag. As such I expect to see it everywhere soon


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## Phil104

Finally a bit of space to try out the syphon. Unpacked everything, fired up the butane burner, opened up the Rungeto Cooperative Kenyan from Foundry&#8230;. away I went. Ultimately the grind was a bit too coarse, I think I had a bit too much water per ground weight, played around trying to get the temperature right - followed a combination of TSK's guidance and the Has Bean guide, and didn't do justice to either the kit or the beans - although did get a nice floral hit. Need to practise more but mightily encouraged. One of the challenges is that I have a strong memory of what Tomoya Ueno produced last Saturday - something to aspire to.


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## Rob1

Does anybody have experience of using the old style metal filters (two metal discs with holes cut in different places and grooved to fit together)? They are supposed to provide a brew with sediment comparable to paper but without the consumables. I'm having difficulty even getting water to stay in the upper chamber. The filter pops up and downs as the water goes up but it's a slow process. Maybe the spring needs changing for a new one? I'll post a pic later.


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## The Systemic Kid

What make of syphon is it?


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## Kyle548

Rob1 said:


> Does anybody have experience of using the old style metal filters (two metal discs with holes cut in different places and grooved to fit together)? They are supposed to provide a brew with sediment comparable to paper but without the consumables. I'm having difficulty even getting water to stay in the upper chamber. The filter pops up and downs as the water goes up but it's a slow process. Maybe the spring needs changing for a new one? I'll post a pic later.


Metal filters are dirtier.

You get more oils because there is no paper to absorb them.

Tend to get a little more sediment- but I always find you do with siphon anyway.


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## Geordie Boy

I didn't realise you could get a metal filter for one. Learn something new every day


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## The Systemic Kid

Hario Sommelier comes with cloth and fine mesh metal filter.


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## Rob1

I use either a Jiale 2 cup or a 'coffee master' 5 cup. They both came with cloth filters.

The filter I'm trying to use is the Nicro Metal Filter (Non mesh) pictured at the bottom of this http://coffeegeek.com/guides/siphoncoffee page.


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## Phil104

Incidentally, I am using a glass rod filter although managed to get some silt but I'm sure that it is related to technique.


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## The Systemic Kid

You will get silt using a glass rod but it will settle at the bottom - good reason to let the brew rest for a few minutes as well as to bring the temp down as it is hot as hell when just brewed. Decanting into another container will help avoid silt getting into the cup.


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## Steve7

Yama. Glass rod (cory). No silt.

1.7 on the hausgrind. Ish.

Two and a half mins then back off and let it draw.

Tastes great. Easy. Maybe could do better but it would take a bit to top what I get. I drink it black and love the clean cup. Always gets a comment if a visitor has some and doesn't know what it is or how I made it. And what's more it cost nothing in kit.


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## Jedi oh

I've just enjoyed some very nice Syphon coffee, and I have noticed that the lower bowl is difficult to keep clean. It has dried water rings.

What is the best way to keep it clean and avoid this?

cheers

Chris


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## froggystyle

keep water in it?


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## Jedi oh

froggystyle said:


> keep water in it?


Hadn't thought of that. My only worry is that it would still leave a ring and maybe go stale?

does anyone else do this?

Cheers


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## froggystyle

err was joking...


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## Thecatlinux

Could you use a bottle brush and then when it comes to drying just place it over the burner to evaporate any moisture left in the glass.


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## Neill

I've tried opening the clamp, turning the bowl upside down and letting it dry that way. Seemed to help a little.


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## The Systemic Kid

Jedi oh said:


> I've just enjoyed some very nice Syphon coffee, and I have noticed that the lower bowl is difficult to keep clean. It has dried water rings.
> 
> What is the best way to keep it clean and avoid this?
> 
> cheers
> 
> Chris


What water are you using? If it's hard - you will get precipitation. Try using something like Waitrose Essential. I don't get any rings with that. It's a good idea to use a weak solution of Cafiza or Puly Caf to remove oils' build up. Leave for a few hours and rinse well.


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## Jedi oh

froggystyle said:


> err was joking...


I did wonder!


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## Jedi oh

The Systemic Kid said:


> What water are you using? If it's hard - you will get precipitation. Try using something like Waitrose Essential. I don't get any rings with that. It's a good idea to use a weak solution of Cafiza or Puly Caf to remove oils' build up. Leave for a few hours and rinse well.


yes, water here is quite hard. I'll try the waitrose essential.

Thanks.


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## Drewster

The Systemic Kid said:


> So here's a thread where members can share their experiences and knowledge and ask questions if you're thinking about giving it a go.


1) Should I?........ Give it a go that is...

2) How much of a faff is is it?

3) What do I need to burn in the little pot? Turps? White spirit? Meths? Tea Tree Oil?

I have acquired a little kit (Vacuum Coffee Master- SY-5) and fancy giving it a go.... as long as it isn't going to be too painful!

The only thing that worries me is what I can/should burn in the little pot.... without burning the house down or stinking it up with fumes...

If I like the coffee enough I would probably invest in one of the posh burners but until I know I don't want to shell out too much.....

All advice welcome!


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## Jedi oh

Yes, you should give it a go.

Like you, I was concerned about how much faff it would be but having used it for a few months now it's not much faff. I'm fact it's feally good fun and makes coffee making an event.

I took mine to work the other day and had a group of people looking on in fascination. They all enjoyed the coffee and some were online there and then looking to buy a syphon maker.

On recommendations here i upgraded the burner and it's great, totally safe (so long as you remember it's a naked flame). No smells, and it's butane so quite cheap.

Of of all the coffee making I do, this is my favourite and I really think you should give it a go.


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## Drewster

Jedi oh said:


> Yes, you should give it a go.
> 
> Like you, I was concerned about how much faff it would be but having used it for a few months now it's not much faff. I'm fact it's feally good fun and makes coffee making an event.
> 
> I took mine to work the other day and had a group of people looking on in fascination. They all enjoyed the coffee and some were online there and then looking to buy a syphon maker.
> 
> On recommendations here i upgraded the burner and it's great, totally safe (so long as you remember it's a naked flame). No smells, and it's butane so quite cheap.
> 
> Of of all the coffee making I do, this is my favourite and I really think you should give it a go.


Thanks for that - but I don't want to shell out (or wait) for a butane burner yet... I just want to give it a go with the spirit burner first off....

If I like the coffee it makes then the butane burner makes sense... but if I hate it then I'll not bother with a butane burner... catch 22 really as I am sure the butane burner will be (even) less faff....

What oil/spirit can I use just to give it a go?


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## Jedi oh

Mine suggests using methylated spirit. But I've never used it so not sure what's best.

Good luck and let's us know how you get on. I think you'll enjoy it.


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## Drewster

Jedi oh said:


> Mine suggests using methylated spirit. But I've never used it so not sure what's best.
> 
> Good luck and let's us know how you get on. I think you'll enjoy it.


Right..... I think I might have some meths..... lets face it.... whats the worst that can happen!!??


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## Jedi oh

Drewster said:


> Right..... I think I might have some meths..... lets face it.... whats the worst that can happen!!??


You're coffee could be too hot!


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## hotmetal

Having seen Patrick demo this at the rave bash I've been totally captivated. It's like something from a mad professor's lab and looks great fun, would be brilliant if you have guests (as long as you can make enough coffee in one go). I don't have the space (or the patience to learn how to make it taste good ) but love the idea of it.


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## Drewster

hotmetal said:


> Having seen Patrick demo this at the rave bash I've been totally captivated. It's like something from a mad professor's lab and looks great fun, would be brilliant if you have guests (as long as you can make enough coffee in one go). I don't have the space (or the patience to learn how to make it taste good ) but love the idea of it.


tbh that's a bit like me - I love the mad professor part, with a bit of theatre thrown in!

As this one is basically a freebie (picked up at an auction with some other O&S - the O&S should sell for more than they cost me) it has prompted me to try it out...

If it doesn't work out I'll probably stick it in a cupboard...... or just move it on (I was debating selling it on here "as new" as it's still in the box. plastic bags etc with the bamboo stirrer and scoop but decided at the price I should give it a go)


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## johnealey

Hotmetal: If you looking for one that will do enough for guests then you possibly need at look at the cona D, dependant on how many guests etc.2 different versions, the stove top (cheaper) or the table top with stand etc(much more expensive), HasBean have them both.

I get about 900ml from our stove top but as am sure if not said on this thread might have been said during Patricks demo, a bit like moka pots you need to get a syphon to suit your required output. Ours makes cracking clean900ml but a really watery 400ml (only did once) as some water always remains in the bottom jug.

Had a really nice foundry tweega this afternoon using a recipe found on sweet marias following scaa guide of 53.7g coffee and 950ml of water, once cooled down a bit really sang! All took less than 5 minutes from starting to boil water in kettle to serving.

Hope of some help.

John


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## The Systemic Kid

Got round to brewing through a Hario Sommelier. Comes with cloth and metal mesh filters: decided to try the mesh. Normal grind setting for my syphon method is the same as Chemex which is between 15-17 on the EK: 17 is the coarsest setting. Figured I'd start with the setting on 12. One big difference between the Sommelier and conventional Hario syphon is water temp. With the burner on full, temp in the upper vessel didn't go above 92%. Normally, I have to turn the heat down once the water has risen up in the conventional syphon to guard against water temp getting too high.

Once water was fully risen in the Sommelier, dropped in the grinds and stirred same number of times I do with conventional syphon. Stirring is an integral part of syphon brewing and it appears everyone has their own preferred method. Agitation has a significant impact on levels of extraction so it's important to be consistent whatever stirring method used. If you watch the barista in Hario's hilarious tongue in cheek promo, you see he stirs like a bandit - link





 - as the water rises through the grinds and during drawdown - total brew time is 30 seconds.

My method is to allow the water to rise into the upper vessel first, then add grinds and stir slowly ten times and dab down the grinds in the crema at 30 secs. At 60 secs, heat is turned off. Drawdown is predictably quicker than using a paper filter - taking a further 30 secs.

Nicaraguan Finca Limoncillo

Dose - 27.5grms

Brew water - 500grms

TDS 1.02%

Extraction Yield 19.55%

Total brew time - 1 min 30 secs

Taste was very different to using a paper filter - more oils present in the brew. Made me think of Terry's chocolate orange - don't get this using paper filter. Exceptionally nice.

Inevitably with a mesh filter, fines make it into the carafe.









These aren't a problem as they settle to the bottom whilst you wait for the coffee to cool sufficiently. The carafe has very steep sides so when you tilt it to pour, the fines don't make it into the cup. Clever.


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## Jedi oh

Had friends over for coffee today and made syphon coffee for them. They were in awe and found it fascinating. And they enjoyed it with no milk and no sugar. Love the reactions I get to syphon coffee. Part of the fun of it.


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## Stanic

many thanks for this thread, helped me to improve my siphon coffee a lot

I use the Hario Technica 3 with cloth filter and put 250 ml of water in the lower vessel and 15 g of ground coffee in the upper chamber, when containing sufficiently hot water, measured at around 90-92 degrees Celsius, stirring three times - first immediately after the grounds are inserted, second time after cca 15 seconds and third time after around 30 seconds, then removing the heat source (spiritus burner) and leaving the suction to do its job, removing upper part shortly after the "bubble".

I grind finer than for chemex, using the Graef on setting "15".

Would love to get the original metal Hario filter, need to check the web 

Should be getting paper filter holder and filters from Santa though ;-)


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## mozbud

Thanks for the thread, very interesting. Does anyone have a recommended Feldgrind setting, I use the Hario TCA-5 with Diguo metal and Hario cloth filters. Has anyone tried the Diguo cloth filters, they are a bit cheaper than the hario's so thinking of giving them a try


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## PHB1969

I've got a tca3 and used the normal cloth and hario metal filter....only 4 times, much prefer the taste with the metal filter although still only practicing and will fully review the thread for tips


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## ashcroc

Impulsively landed a Corning Glass Works Pyrex number 27 with a Nicro metal filter for a stupidly low maiden bid (the postage was more!). Still very much getting to grips with it as can find virtually no info about it (including max capacity though 750ml seems about there). Burner needs cleaning out & wick replacing (thinking of upgrading to a gas burner if it'll fit) but thankfully it's flat bottom is just the right size to fit on my gas hob. 

Many thanks to everyone who's shared their expertise and on this thread. I'm sure I wouldn't be sitting here enjoying a gorgeous brew without it.


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## CONA Factory

Drewster said:


> Right..... I think I might have some meths..... lets face it.... whats the worst that can happen!!??


Methylated spirit is the only correct liquid fuel. It is also known as 'denatured alcohol', which explains why you get a blue flame that does not produce smoke or soot.


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## TheHToad

I know this is an old thread, but I'm looking to start playing around with siphon coffee anyone have any recommendations as to what size I should get? looking at either the hario tca 2 or 3 cup. Currently I brew v60 coffee with 20g beans and 300ml water, just for reference


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## The Systemic Kid

Hario make several different syphon makers starting around £80 and going up to £200. Amazon stock a non branded identical Hario 1-3 cup for £40.00. Recommend getting a butane burner to replace the spirit burner which costs around £40.00. Butane burner gives you instant heat control - vital to avoid overheating the coffee.


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## TheHToad

The Systemic Kid said:


> Hario make several different syphon makers starting around £80 and going up to £200. Amazon stock a non branded identical Hario 1-3 cup for £40.00. Recommend getting a butane burner to replace the spirit burner which costs around £40.00. Butane burner gives you instant heat control - vital to avoid overheating the coffee.


 Do you know what size it is in mL? and do you have a link to it? most of them i found are 5cup size, which is definitely too big for me


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## The Systemic Kid

Hario's syphon range starts with the Technica 2 which is 240ml, Technica 3 which is 360ml and the 5 which is 600ml. You can get non branded copies of the Technica 5 much cheaper than the Hario version. You can also brew less coffee in the 5 if you want to. But if you are brewing much smaller amounts, guess the 2 or 3 is possibly the one for you.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-TCA-2-Coffee-Syphon-Technica/dp/B000IKLQVY/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=hario+tca+2+syphon+coffee+maker&qid=1558793566&s=kitchen&sr=1-3


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## TheHToad

decided to settle for the 3cup, do you have a specific butane burner to recommend or are they more or less the same

Edit:
I went for the rekrow as it seems to be the one hario recommended as well

what sort of grind size do you normally use?


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## The Systemic Kid

@TheHToad the Rekrow one sold by CoffeeHit is the one I use. Works well.


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## TheHToad

mozbud said:


> Thanks for the thread, very interesting. Does anyone have a recommended Feldgrind setting, I use the Hario TCA-5 with Diguo metal and Hario cloth filters. Has anyone tried the Diguo cloth filters, they are a bit cheaper than the hario's so thinking of giving them a try


 Just wondering if you found the silicone of the diguo filter giving off a chemical smell? Mine arrived today and I'm kinda afraid to use it because of it


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## Jedi oh

Revisiting this thread.

Not had syphon for a while and will be enjoying some this week. Was worth reading through the thread again. 👍


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## Rob1

I haven't had syphon for a while but would recommend trying to get your hands on one of those metal filters. I think bodum made a good mesh one to go with a new brewers they made a few years ago.


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