# Grind it twice



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

From the pages of prufrock. Grind it, grind it again..who is gonna give it a try first

http://www.prufrockcoffee.com/re-hulling/

Should open up a gentle debate


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I tried this when I first started trying to do espresso with my Krupps Grinder.....failed!

Gut reaction to it #GetintheSea


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I tried this when I first started trying to do espresso with my Krupps Grinder.....failed!
> 
> Gut reaction to it #GetintheSea


Think the Krupp's may not be uniform enough for an experiment ....


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## Doozerless (Apr 3, 2015)

The new voodoo for dfk?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Think the Krupp's may not be uniform enough for an experiment ....


Not uniform for most things


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

So that's what the EKK43 is really for.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Ooooops apologies :embarrassed:


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

No one or really reading the article are they


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Like he was for using a french press for creating micro foam, 100% not possible









Anyway, I believe there is a definite improvement in the cup when removing silverskin . The past few weeks I have been making chemex brews without thwacking the thwacker on the EK. TDS is up noticeably and into the 23-24% EY, with no off flavours.

I extend this to EKpresso by tapping the thwacker with a brush handle , rather than thwacking. Chaff is left behind, never thought about fines, but it makes sense. .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Like he was for using a french press for creating micro foam, 100% not possible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was anthorn not the " other one " and it was a jam jar not a fresh press


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Like he was for using a french press for creating micro foam, 100% not possible
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Re grinding first time , I lost about 2g somewhere.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> That was anthorn not the " other one " and it was a jam jar not a fresh press


You've said the name. Don't you realise what you've done!?!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Re grinding first time , I lost about 2g somewhere.


26g in 26g out when thwacking.

27.5g in 26g out when doing nothing

27g in 26g out when hitting thwacker with brush handle.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

@Drewster Reminder: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24924-References-to-Noah


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> 26g in 26g out when thwacking.
> 
> 27.5g in 26g out when doing nothing
> 
> 27g in 26g out when hitting thwacker with brush handle.


I lost it on the second grind at target espresso level...guess some of it just didn't get past the burrs


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I lost it on the second grind at target espresso level...guess some of it just didn't get past the burrs


filled gaps which are normally too small for beans


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah, alright. I mean, I kinda do like coffee..............

But not THAT much.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Re grinding first time , I lost about 2g somewhere.


Due to the ek horizontal burrs it has a corkscrew that pulls the beans into the grind chamber. This screw doesn't reach the bottom of the input chute so you will lose some there for sure. The way the ek works it is not suited to this type of grinding IMHO.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Anyway, I believe there is a definite improvement in the cup when removing silverskin . The past few weeks I have been making chemex brews without thwacking the thwacker on the EK. TDS is up noticeably and into the 23-24% EY, with no off flavours.


Do this for brewed, esp on the baratza, luckily the static sorts the wheat from the chaff which is dead easy.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> No one or really reading the article are they


What!! And contaminate our comments with relevance?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Do you purge the chaff out the EK once you've got your good stuff out it?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I actually started grinding twice with a hario slim, which improved the consistency of the output quite a bit. But that was because of the unfixed burr allowing chunks through.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Do you purge the chaff out the EK once you've got your good stuff out it?


Perhaps with a Henry hoover - other hoovering devices are available.

General: I might give a double grind a go sometime. I found that article curiously difficult to read - I think it's some of the assumptions they make about peoples level of knowledge but I'm going to read it again later on because it could also be the fact that although not early it's technically still Monday morning.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Do you purge the chaff out the EK once you've got your good stuff out it?


I run 5g of the coffee i'm about to use through before grinding


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## robashton (May 9, 2015)

I can't be bothered grinding twice, but I do avoid over-using the thwacker and avoid chaff in both spro and filter, it definitely improved quality.

I purge before using a bean with a few grams, and I tend to do a big thwack before I do that, then whatever is retained tends to be the bean I'm currently using.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Xpenno said:


> Do this for brewed, esp on the baratza, luckily the static sorts the wheat from the chaff which is dead easy.


WHEAT?! Is this where I have been going wrong all these years?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> From the pages of prufrock. Grind it, grind it again..who is gonna give it a try first
> 
> http://www.prufrockcoffee.com/re-hulling/
> 
> Should open up a gentle debate


Thanks - interesting article.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I fully advocate grinding 3 times.....much better than grinding twice.


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## dr.chris (Nov 13, 2014)

Just read the article. What strikes me is that you look at a normal selection of beans before they go in the hopper and even if they are single origin there will be a good size variation. Now I suspect that when a big bean hits the blades they are going to absorb a lot more energy than small beans, especially when grinding fine.

Doing a very coarse pregrind does not stress the beans as much and leaves you with a consistent maximum size fraction in the feed that goes through the fine grind. You should get a more even sized product out of the fine grind, and one where the grounds will have gone through a more consistent set of stresses.


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## dr.chris (Nov 13, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I fully advocate grinding 3 times.....much better than grinding twice.


What you need is a grinding circuit of these

http://www.flsmidth.com/en-US/Industries/Categories/Products/Grinding/HPGR/HPGR


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

dr.chris said:


> What you need is a grinding circuit of these
> 
> http://www.flsmidth.com/en-US/Industries/Categories/Products/Grinding/HPGR/HPGR


Really like the guy in the bottom left with the high viz on for scale, could give the R120, Godzilla and Daleks a run for their money!

John


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## dr.chris (Nov 13, 2014)

That is very much the new technology for grinding ore. The older style SAG mills could be 10m in diameter

I wonder if anyone has tried using rollers to grind coffee


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Commercially, coffee is often ground with roller mills, often with multiple stages for pre-breaking & fine grinding. Tens of thousands a throw though.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Commercially, coffee is often ground with roller mills, often with multiple stages for pre-breaking & fine grinding. Tens of thousands a throw though.


Now to find space


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

johnealey said:


> Really like the guy in the bottom left with the high viz on for scale, could give the R120, Godzilla and Daleks a run for their money!
> 
> John


Whoa, I went all the way down to the bottom of the page, didn't see a bloke in a hi viz, checked page had fully loaded. Then spotted him


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dr.chris said:


> What you need is a grinding circuit of these
> 
> http://www.flsmidth.com/en-US/Industries/Categories/Products/Grinding/HPGR/HPGR


That'd do it (about 5 of them in a circle), you could insert your 1 Kg of coffee in the morning and within an hour get your 20g dose 1 hour later, having circulated the grinds 100 times or so. your going to lose a lot in the machine....but it's worth it. The only real problem I see is having to clear the stale grinds out between each dose. Checking the grind quality with your electron microscope and stopping the grinding process at the optimum level is time consuming, but well worth it.

You would have to split your double shot into 2 singles to have a large enough sample size to check for colour, acidity, refractometry, density, run it through a different chromatography columns....but as long as that's all OK (tests should only take 30m)...your good to go with your single espresso and know it's safe/good to drink.


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