# IMS competition shower screen on R58



## RobW

I thought I'd try an IMS competition shower screen on my R58. I found the stock screen really difficult to remove and so I thought an IMS 200 micron competition screen would save me having to remove it for cleaning so often.

With the stock screen I got some flow through on the preinfusion lever position (using water tank) but there is nothing from the IMS screen. It also seems to have increased the brew pressure to near 10 bar.

I'm curious if anybody else found this if you've used an IMS screen? I'm now wondering if I need to knock the pump pressure down a bit.

Quality of extractions and taste in the cup haven't improved, although that wasn't the object of the exercise.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Hi.

As far as I know, the R58 has a rotary pump, and the pressure is measured at the head of the pump, and not at the group. You'll notice they the pressure will read exactly the same regardless whether you have a a ports filter loaded with a blank disk or coffee, or weather the portafilter is there or not, or whether the shower screen is there or not. So I find that strange. Put the old screen back, check the pressure: It should not be different.

Re: pre-infusion without a machine plumbed in: the water in there will be the water from the loop. It will only wet the puck at the top. The water there is not under pressure so it will not pre-infuse.

To remove the stock screen or the IMS: use an upside down teaspoon and slot it on the groove of the screen, yank it against the group. Very simple, and there are videos on utube. You should really remove the screen at least once a week and clean the gasket, the screen and around the group thoroughly.


----------



## El carajillo

The reason you are not getting water through in pre-infusion as stated above it is not under pressure but also the fine gauze of the screen will increase the surface tension of the water and will hold more water in the mesh. If you had pressure pr-infusion it would come through as normal.

Ref the brew pressure, there will be a slight increase in resistance to water flow due to the reduced apertures caused by the gauze mesh.

Judge by the taste of your coffee, if you feel the need adjust the pressure. Is it only since you changed the screen OR had you not really noticed before ?


----------



## RobW

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi.
> 
> As far as I know, the R58 has a rotary pump, and the pressure is measured at the head of the pump, and not at the group. You'll notice they the pressure will read exactly the same regardless whether you have a a ports filter loaded with a blank disk or coffee, or weather the portafilter is there or not, or whether the shower screen is there or not. So I find that strange. Put the old screen back, check the pressure: It should not be different.
> 
> Re: pre-infusion without a machine plumbed in: the water in there will be the water from the loop. It will only wet the puck at the top. The water there is not under pressure so it will not pre-infuse.
> 
> To remove the stock screen or the IMS: use an upside down teaspoon and slot it on the groove of the screen, yank it against the group. Very simple, and there are videos on utube. You should really remove the screen at least once a week and clean the gasket, the screen and around the group thoroughly.


I'll switch back the screen and see if the pressure changes. I'm pretty sure it was previously closer to 9 bar. My problem with the removal is that I've already managed to mark the group due to the amount of force needed to lever the screen out. The brass is like butter. I'd rather not risk damaging it.


----------



## DavecUK

RobW said:


> I'll switch back the screen and see if the pressure changes. I'm pretty sure it was previously closer to 9 bar. My problem with the removal is that I've already managed to mark the group due to the amount of force needed to lever the screen out. The brass is like butter. I'd rather not risk damaging it.


I am surprised, but then people sell a pointed tool for gouging out group gaskets. In my personal experience, if they are removed every 2-3 days for cleaning it's never a problem. They only seem to stick in if not removed for months?

See the video below from 4m onwards and you will see just how easy it is (or should be).





 krPGvdNjVl0N09pAFwILyJ


----------



## RobW

Mine is definitely much stiffer than that. When I tried using a spoon the spoon just bent! It isn't a dirt thing, I've only had it a couple of weeks and there was no dirt behind the screen.


----------



## DavecUK

RobW said:


> Mine is definitely much stiffer than that. When I tried using a spoon the spoon just bent! It isn't a dirt thing, I've only had it a couple of weeks and there was no dirt behind the screen.


Could it be technique, I've not really had a problem with all 100+ different machines I have tested over the years. I always remove the group gaskets as part of the testing?


----------



## espressotechno

A broad stubby screwdriver with a good blade will supply the required leverage.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

RobW said:


> Mine is definitely much stiffer than that. When I tried using a spoon the spoon just bent! It isn't a dirt thing, I've only had it a couple of weeks and there was no dirt behind the screen.


You need better quality spoons...


----------



## DavecUK

espressotechno said:


> A broad stubby screwdriver with a good blade will supply the required leverage.


I'm with @MediumRoastSteam in the better quality spoons camp.

just a thought, they do often come out easier when cold or about 5 minutes after switching machine on.


----------



## richwade80

I managed to get mine out with a plastic baby spoon. It marked the spoon, but that was kind of the idea. Not to mark the group....


----------



## Jollybean

I protect the group head with some insulation tape to help reduce the likelihood of damaging the chrome


----------



## RobW

OK, so I swapped back to the original screen and I was wrong about the pressure, still 9.5 bar so the screen was not impacting that.

I wrapped a spoon in insulating tape as suggested by @Jollybean to do it and that does avoid marks on the group. Still takes several minutes and a reasonable amount of force to get the thing out. Hopefully I'll develop a knack for it. Anybody apply a lubricant to the group to help make it easier?

I also think you can get silicone gaskets - are those easier?


----------



## DavecUK

Rob having read this thread through again, don't put the different screen in just for the reason of not cleaning it so often, loadsa money spent........ clean the screen and behind the screen/dispersion disk every 2-3 days, really helps the taste. once you start removing it regularly it will come off easy.

For pump pressure just dial it down a tad to 9 bar, it only takes a few minutes to do.


----------



## RobW

DavecUK said:


> Rob having read this thread through again, don't put the different screen in just for the reason of not cleaning it so often, loadsa money spent........ clean the screen and behind the screen/dispersion disk every 2-3 days, really helps the taste. once you start removing it regularly it will come off easy.
> 
> For pump pressure just dial it down a tad to 9 bar, it only takes a few minutes to do.


I've dialled down the pump pressure, now 9 bar through the majority of the extraction. Not a huge difference but I think it has improved the quality of the extractions - they certainly look good with the naked portafilter!

I'm now using a metal bike tyre lever wrapped in electrical insulating tape to remove the screen which is a bit easier to use. I *think* it is getting a bit easier.

The next fun bit will be removing the dispersion disk. The factory have put that in pretty tight as well and I need a fatter screwdriver to avoid damaging it.


----------



## El carajillo

File the curve off a washer to suit the length of slot. If desperately tight you can hold the washer in pliers / adjustable spanner.


----------



## Jason1wood

Just ordered one of these screens for the Verona. Would lije your thoughts, seems better at distributing the water rather than the centre streams I'm having with the stock screen.


----------



## RobW

Jason1wood said:


> Just ordered one of these screens for the Verona. Would lije your thoughts, seems better at distributing the water rather than the centre streams I'm having with the stock screen.


The IMS screen does provide a more even distribution. Not sure there is a noticeable difference in taste, but I think it does stop coffee particles going back through the group head. I replaced the rubber gasket with a Cafelat silicone one and it is much easier to get in and out. I still remove it to clean every couple of days, but hopefully it will keep the E61 internals from getting gunk in. I backflush clean every month but I don't get much if any residue coming out of the exhaust.


----------



## Jason1wood

Ordered a standard 8mm gasket but realised I need a 8.5mm and quite fancy the cafelat silicone one, but kept reading conflicting reviews on them.

May give I a go.


----------



## 9719

Jason1wood said:


> Ordered a standard 8mm gasket but realised I need a 8.5mm and quite fancy the cafelat silicone one, but kept reading conflicting reviews on them.
> 
> May give I a go.


+1 for the cafelat they are worth it in the correct size that is...


----------



## lee1980

RobW said:


> I've dialled down the pump pressure, now 9 bar through the majority of the extraction. Not a huge difference but I think it has improved the quality of the extractions - they certainly look good with the naked portafilter!
> 
> I'm now using a metal bike tyre lever wrapped in electrical insulating tape to remove the screen which is a bit easier to use. I *think* it is getting a bit easier.
> 
> The next fun bit will be removing the dispersion disk. The factory have put that in pretty tight as well and I need a fatter screwdriver to avoid damaging it.


Yeah largest flat blade you got and remove all the drip tray etc to get in nice and square, after Dave's advice before I do mine weekly or more, the screen and this disc thing, it all builds up like an oily film quite quickly.

For the screen and gasket I find using a smaller flat blade screw driver up in the 2 slots where group head tangs go means its comes out easy.


----------



## hotmetal

Jason1wood said:


> Ordered a standard 8mm gasket but realised I need a 8.5mm and quite fancy the cafelat silicone one, but kept reading conflicting reviews on them.
> 
> May give I a go.


+1 for the blue Cafelat gasket on R58. Lovely and soft, once properly seated, the PF seals against it with the lightest of twists but it's soft enough to absorb further turns. (My spouted and naked PFs used to lock in at slightly different angles, but the Cafelat allows both to lock in at "6 o'clock).

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## lee1980

I just ordered from BB the blue gasket and IMS competition screen was 24.95 said on sale but not sure if thats a good price or not!

My R58 is coming up to 2 years old and not really done much to it apart from cleaning or had any issues so far, so thought treat it, how long do the gaskets last usually?


----------



## hotmetal

I've had no need to do anything to mine apart from replacing the group gasket for a blue Cafelat (other than regular cleaning and lubing). The original gasket had gone a bit hard after a couple of years' use. I wasn't having issues with it, but I replaced it when I got the naked PF because every time I washed the shower screen I could tell it was too hard and due for replacement. I think the standard gaskets will generally need replacing every year or so, but silicone ones will probably last much longer.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## lee1980

Thanks, I have not used any cleaning stuff or pellets yet on it, last year got that silicone group head cleaner thingy for get what its called (espolizer lol).

I think are meant to put in some cleaning pellet things in blind basket and flush it through?


----------



## RobW

lee1980 said:


> Thanks, I have not used any cleaning stuff or pellets yet on it, last year got that silicone group head cleaner thingy for get what its called (espolizer lol).
> 
> I think are meant to put in some cleaning pellet things in blind basket and flush it through?


You should definitely use a cleaner in the blind basket regularly. I think once every month or two would be an OK schedule. If you have not done it for 2 years it is definitely overdue! Get some molykote 111 and relube after the cleaning as the cleaner strips the lube off and it might get stiff and wear the parts. DavecUK has posted instructions on how to do it and it really is quite easy to do - 10 minute job.


----------



## lee1980

Thanks Rob, yeah sure I seen something to before, its taking out the big nut on top of the group head and lubing it all. will do a search.


----------



## RobW

lee1980 said:


> Thanks Rob, yeah sure I seen something to before, its taking out the big nut on top of the group head and lubing it all. will do a search.


Here you go: http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication

No need to do the top nut. I bought a set of ring spanners to fit all the bolts, makes it easy and no risk of marking the chrome. I think from memory you need a 26mm for the nut in question for cleaning.


----------



## lee1980

Thanks will do, though a quick search and reading to it seems its best not to do to often certainly not monthly.


----------



## RobW

If you look at that article he says clean every 1-3 months, but that he backflushes every day with water which helps keep things clean. Definitely needs doing more than every 2 years


----------



## lee1980

RobW said:


> Here you go: http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication
> 
> No need to do the top nut. I bought a set of ring spanners to fit all the bolts, makes it easy and no risk of marking the chrome. I think from memory you need a 26mm for the nut in question for cleaning.


Thanks Rob, I maybe ok as I don't get any of the symptoms of worn pins at least, its stiffer when cold but not sure if that is always the case, but lever moves nicely when warm and doesn't move etc as described in this article.

I have ordered the moly 111 and poly puff cleaning stuff so will get on it this weekend, need to see if have big enough spanner to.

I have let things slip, I know i emailed BB when I got it and they said not chemical clean to often if not using a lot, and read on here to often means more lubing etc, so the months have gone by! hope not done to much damage etc.


----------



## lee1980

On weekend, i did this finally. I undid the larger nut but should I of also undone the smaller one? I guess to grease shaft of the lever rod the cam is on end? I managed to grease cam ends and the end of the shaft, took a while to get cam back in properly.

also i got the e61 blue cafelat seal 8.5mm it seems very very tight putting the portafilter now, it looked like it didn't matter what way it went up, other was tapered.


----------



## ashcroc

lee1980 said:


> On weekend, i did this finally. I undid the larger nut but should I of also undone the smaller one? I guess to grease shaft of the lever rod the cam is on end? I managed to grease cam ends and the end of the shaft, took a while to get cam back in properly.
> 
> also i got the e61 blue cafelat seal 8.5mm it seems very very tight putting the portafilter now, it looked like it didn't matter what way it went up, other was tapered.


Tapered edge goes against the grouphead.


----------



## El carajillo

Yes you should have undone both nuts, this allows you to remove the cam from the barrel and pull a rolled up piece of kitchen roll through to clean the barrel. You can also check the condition of the seals in the centre of the barrel. then relube seals and the cam shaft.


----------



## lee1980

ashcroc said:


> Tapered edge goes against the grouphead.


Thanks I removed it and turned over seems, better now but doesn't look tapered like stock black rubber one is.


----------



## lee1980

El carajillo said:


> Yes you should have undone both nuts, this allows you to remove the cam from the barrel and pull a rolled up piece of kitchen roll through to clean the barrel. You can also check the condition of the seals in the centre of the barrel. then relube seals and the cam shaft.


Ahh ok smaller one first, then larger one will do this next time doh!


----------



## RobW

lee1980 said:


> Thanks I removed it and turned over seems, better now but doesn't look tapered like stock black rubber one is.


My Cafelat blue one definitely has a taper on one side. This fits to the tapered edge of the screen just like the stock rubber one.


----------



## hotmetal

Cafelat blue 8.5mm on my R58 too. Chamfered edge with writing on goes up against the lip on the edge of the shower screen and up inside the group. The flat edge is what seals against the basket.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## lee1980

Yea i think first time had up wrong way and as its new its tighter than old one, its not so tight now correct way!

must lubricate the shaft to lever to this weekend!


----------

