# Bye, bye Sage Oracle.........



## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

I have had the Oracle for 15 months. It has mostly made acceptable-ish coffee but never "wow".

I was starting to get a little concerned regarding the reliability and especially the availability of spares and repairs in view of some of the stories on this and other forums.

However my main dislike is the lack of consistency in the shots - I generally only have 2 coffees a day, one before breakfast, my wake-up shot, with a second after breakfast and have been using the same bean for quite a while (Kenyan). The first shot is usually pretty good but the second one nearly always has a faster flow/shorter time and is obviously mediocre to say the least and sometimes is tipped away and I have another go which will usually produce a better shot but never as good as the first of the day?

On occasions I may brew another in the afternoon and that can be pot luck as to the result. I always keep the machine clean, back-flushed with and without Puly Caf and it has been descaled regularly along with regular grinder cleaning.

The last couple of weeks I have started to notice an increasing amount of grounds actually in the bottom of my cup and I can only assume that the grinder is producing a lot of "dust" particles of coffee which actually make it through the basket into the cup? I also noticed the centre shaft holding the lower bur seems to have quite a bit of side play in the bearing. Hmm, warranty repair looming it seems.

So, I did a bit of research and decided I would take advantage of Lakelands absolutely fantastic CS and warranty and return the unit for a refund.

2 days before they collected it I took delivery of a Lelit Mara X E61 machine plus a Baratza Sette 270Wi dose weighing grinder! A bit of a steep learning curve but the first thing I noted was that the shots are consistent!

The other advantage is that spares are readily available and some are even "industry standard" (e.g. the 58m portafilter has standard fittings so you are not obliged to purchase a replacement from the original manufacturer - unlike Sage, which uses a 58mm portafilter with their own fixing lug configuration so you cannot shop around). They are also fairly easy to work on if you have a modicum of technical ability - I have already adjusted the OPV valve on the Lelit as it was set a bit high ex factory.

Anyway, quite happy with my decision so far and although I now have 2 machines on the worktop the overall space taken up is actually a bit less than the Oracle was using partly due to the fact that both machines are less than 400mm high and can be freely located beneath the kitchen wall cupboards as well as the fact that the Lelit is very narrow and compact. I had to invest getting on for £200 extra on the £1300 refund for the Sage which was not too much of a shock and seems to be less than most are selling the Oracle at!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@woodbar One marvels at the way Lakeland manages to stay in business. 🤣


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Maybe it is BECAUSE they are known for their excellent 3 year warranty promise and that attracts repeat customers?

If they could have supplied my new kit I would have bought it from them in a heartbeat especially as they price-match.

Presumably not too high a percentage of purchasers actually invoke the refund option and I assume they just dump it back to Sage to refurb or whatever?

It does feel quite re-assuring to know that if the equipment does develop a fault and/or does not live up to expectations (hype) after a while then you can either get a replacement machine or opt out!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@woodbar pity they don't sell cars


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Yes, that's a thought. Now they would get a lot of takers with that!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> @woodbar One marvels at the way Lakeland manages to stay in business. 🤣


 Or Sage for that matter.....


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Well true I suppose although I think most of the Sage stuff looks very smart, and reasonably well built, in a domestic environment.

I think it is a great shame they sold off the Breville name in this part of the world as, from past experience, that now has connotations of cheap Chinese low quality products and rather taints the, rest of the world, Breville (Sage) products for me.

I know the "genuine" Breville/Sage products are also manufactured in China but they do seem to adopt a higher quality requirement than others.

The problem with Sage UK as I see it is they give you a 2 year warranty and generally replace the machine if it develops a major fault but after that they generally do not sell spares to Joe public and fob you off to a 3rd party repair company for service requirements who also won't supply spares. Ordering bits from Australia is not really an option!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@woodbar they do rather shaft the UK customers.....or dudded as the Aussies would say.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

woodbar said:


> Well true I suppose although I think most of the Sage stuff looks very smart, and reasonably well built, in a domestic environment.
> 
> I think it is a great shame they sold off the Breville name in this part of the world as, from past experience, that now has connotations of cheap Chinese low quality products and rather taints the, rest of the world, Breville (Sage) products for me.
> 
> ...


 But there will be no difference between a sage and a grevillea coffee machine though


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

I know, that was not my point.

If you buy a genuine Breville (Sage here) product in most of the rest of the world then it seems likely that you can expect far superior back up than you get with the UK distributors AKA Sage!

I won't get started on that one except to say, for example, Mazda and Hyundai UK both strip their cars of some options which are standard in other markets!

We are not known as "Treasure Island" for nothing!


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## Stox (Jul 19, 2020)

woodbar said:


> 2 days before they collected it I took delivery of a Lelit Mara X E61 machine plus a Baratza Sette 270Wi dose weighing grinder! A bit of a steep learning curve but the first thing I noted was that the shots are consistent!


 That Baratza grinder may turn out to have reliability issues as well. In other news Baratza were recently acquired by Breville.


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Yes, I was aware but decided to take a punt - only doing 2 or 3 max shots a day so it might last a while?

I wanted the dose by weight facility and this seemed the only option at a not to extortionate price as well as producing a good quality output - so far it's pretty good.

It does sound like you are cutting steel pipe with an angle grinder though BUT it is very quick


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## wayno (Dec 5, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> @woodbar they do rather shaft the UK customers.....or dudded as the Aussies would say.


 Sage? found them excellent ! still repaired the machine once out of warranty? or you mean price - like every other international co± Rip off Britain!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

wayno said:


> Sage? found them excellent ! still repaired the machine once out of warranty? or you mean price - like every other international co± Rip off Britain!


 No I mean right to repair....


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Exactly.

If I could rely on having a choice of repairers, possibly even locally, or being able to obtain spares for DIY repairs then I probably would still own the Sage Oracle - as I can't, I don't!

At the moment, I already know how to re-build my E61 group head, replace the pump, adjust the OPV valve (just done that again actually) along with a multitude of other possibilities along with where to obtain the spare parts I might need (hopefully not for a while!)


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