# Moccamaster almost overflowing, should I return



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

My Moccamaster almost overflows even with coarse grind and 1L. It will be quite high up even after 1/2L. Today I used a fairly coarse grind, its obviously worse with a finer grind, where I have had to turn it off before it did overflow. I stir after around 20 seconds. Should I send this one back to Amazon? It was a warehouse deal. I will time now how long it takes to pump the 1.25L, times from first drop leaving showerhead, taken as the meniscus crosses the etched mark at 8,6,4,2 and the last spurt. If the timings are within normal range I will keep, I predict it goes too fast, if not I need to change other things.

cup level mark / (volume pumped) / Time since last mark (s) / Time since start (mm:ss)

8 (0.25L) 53.62 53.62

6 (0.50L) 57.88 1:51.50

4 (0.75L) 56.78 2:48.28

2 (1.00L) 56.79 3:45.07

Total Time (1.25L) 4:44.84


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

How much coffee in weight are you putting in for how water i.e. 50 or 60g per litre as the bottom shot looks like quite a bit more ?

Also what brand of filters and are you purging any espresso level grinds before then grinding coarser (at what number on the Rocky Scale) ?

John


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Hi johnealey. I have been using 15g per 250ml, so 60/L or 75g in this case for 1.25L. That image this morning was using a grind from the roasters specific for filter coffee. I only recently got a grinder,







it is quite coarse I try to repeat on rocky around 40ish. It has also happened using 65g for 1L (Rocky 30).

As for filter paper, 3 white papers came with the machine I assume are rocky, and I have unbranded brown papers.

Based on the numbers I gave would you say the machine is normal? 4min45 for 1.25L? At least I can rule that out if so and not worry about sending it back. If that is normal for a Moccamaster it must be what I am doing with grind and or filter paper. It does look like a lot, but its also a big conical impression from the centre and coffee rising to the edges of the paper. I stirred in this case at 20s. I haven't been folding the papers would that explain anything?

As for purging I haven't but also have been going down from 42 over the last week so no need, I notice the rocky gives quite a bit of smaller grind along with the coarse (its not very uniform) but in this case I was using the shop ground stuff (looks uniform) so I don't think that explains everything.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

when you say folding do you mean not folding along the sealed bottom and edge?

try dropping to 53g per litre with a smaller brew of say max 1L taste and report back.

The moccamaster own filter are a little taller than the no name / supermarket ones. For bigger brews have found I need to grind a little coarser irrespective of filter make otherwise it can get close to the top and I have on occasion stopped the flow of water (pulling jug away from switch) to let it go down a bit. The Melitta No4 filters are possibly the best for larger brews as have 3 different sized holes in the filter which do seem to help flow , but they are not cheap.

Have also found any espresso grinds getting into the bottom of the filter will choke the flow especially if not folding over bottom then side of filter on seam, so purge a second or so to get rid of fine stuff.

Rocky 30 should be about right from memory although all grinders have different zero points so will be only ball park.

John

p.s. I tend to make 3/4L or 1L brews in the main with 38 or 53g respectively if that helps with the math


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

you may also want to check the drip valve is open fully (can't tell from picture if you have the vacuum flask version or the glass jug on a hotplate) as there may be an issue here that is slowing the flow down. If you feel under the filter holder you will feel the release lever, opposite side to handle, fill filter holder with water and check the flow then compare to what coming out when brewing if that makes sense.

Forgot to answer you main question: I don't think there anything intrinsically wrong with the machine more a grind / filter type issue.

John


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Try using 750g water/45g coffee or even 500g/30g. I don't think the Moccamaster cone is suitable for 1L+ brews unless you have a grinder which produces very little fines. I think Rocky may not be the best for this as it will produce a lot of fines being an espresso grinder. Your grind in the slurry pic looks very fine for a 1L brew, is this as coarse as the grinder will go?

You can also try putting cold water into the tank, that might slow down the pour a little.


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Hi, I tried this morning with rocky at (45) very coarse, using 60g and 1L. Again it got very high, left large conical impression. The brew was too weak so poured away. It got as high as the picture I have already sent. Here is picture of grinds with aa battery.









I have just done another brew using 45g/750ml rocky (30). I decided to let it steep by removing the caraffe at 20s for about 20s, then replaced caraffe and switched machine back on. This time it didn't get as high.









I tried testing the valve under the grind basket. It emptied the basket very fast (

Even though it fills up a lot on 750 ml, (is that normal?) the coffee tastes good. There's much less bitterness than my last brewer and I can comfortably drink it without milk which is unusual for me. Look forwards to experimenting with the grind settings around 30.

Here's the grinds from my rocky at 30, does it look OK? I noticed it makes clumps even at this level but not many, they rolled to the bottom of the pile, you can see them in the picture.









Its a relief to know it isn't the machine and I don't have to send it back. Thank-you all for your help so far.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Your grind still looks very fine to me. Here's what I used with my Vario with Steel burrs:

And this was on a 27g/500g brew I believe.


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Oh wow, thats a lot coarser than mine at 45. I can take it to 55 and see how coarse I get. I would have to use more than 30g I think to get a decent strength at 500ml but I will give that coarseness a try. What filter papers do you use? Thanks for your help!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Choronzon said:


> Oh wow, thats a lot coarser than mine at 45. I can take it to 55 and see how coarse I get. I would have to use more than 30g I think to get a decent strength at 500ml but I will give that coarseness a try. What filter papers do you use? Thanks for your help!


I used to have a Rocky, 45 wasn't very coarse, more medium drip range.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

It's a noname supermarket filter, nothing special. They're made in Holland. Why would need to use more than 30g to get decent strength at 500ml?

Seems your grinder is producing a lot of fines even at coarse settings, so it makes timely drawndown a bit difficult. This can be quite typical with some espresso grinders.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

So basically, as with every coffee-related "problem", the answer is to buy a better grinder??!


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Haha







When I researched them I couldnt find one that went from esspresso to cold brew around the price of the rocky. But I expect to be wrong. It is causing lots of fines at the coarsest settings.

I have experimented over the last few days. You people opened my eyes to what you mean by coarse. My grinder actually goes up to 85 or so. I have been using 60 and having better results. Still not quite there for a 1L brew.

Today I did 54g (rest of a batch) and 1L and its actually OK, still issues with drainage. Coffee tastes nice. I thought I would have to use more than 15:250 initially as at the finer settings (45) that produced a weaker brew I had to pour away. I assumed as grind sized increased the extraction would decrease due to surface area. But hasnt been the case. Unless I used a different coffee for that batch.

What grinder would you recommend? My plan here was to have the rocky as all purpose, then when/if I get into espresso get a specialised espresso grinder. So I would be OK having a grinder for espresso and one for everything else. Price point would be around the Rocky say £350. Would probably need to be stepped or at least quickly adjustable depending on how I plan to brew.

Better question may be: should I look for a better grinder. Or be happy with the rocky. (please tell me to be happy!)


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I used to be very happy with my Rocky...then I joined this forum to research something wrong with my old Gaggia Classic









In truth, others will have better advice on brewed grinders. I use a conical hand grinder but have heard that the Sage is a good option for this sort of stuff.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Great news that this is getting better though. I have been experimenting with brewed and was also shocked at the "boulders" people brew from, but as usual it's the consistency which seems important so it extracts evenly and flows properly.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Choronzon said:


> What grinder would you recommend? My plan here was to have the rocky as all purpose, then when/if I get into espresso get a specialised espresso grinder. So I would be OK having a grinder for espresso and one for everything else. Price point would be around the Rocky say £350. Would probably need to be stepped or at least quickly adjustable depending on how I plan to brew.
> 
> Better question may be: should I look for a better grinder. Or be happy with the rocky. (please tell me to be happy!)


Try sticking to a consistent brew size with the Rocky & Moccamaster. It should do fine once dialled in.

Whatever you finally end up with, a separate grinder for espresso would be best so that you are not constantly changing your settings over a wide range (e.g. from espresso, to drip & back).


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Thanks everyone for your help with this. It is going much better now. Tried at 65 today for 60g/1L and worked fine, seems better with some beans than others, It also seems to work better after a steep at the start, but I would never have thought to grind so coarse if it wasn't for the pictures you sent. Coffee tastes good, now to learn to use my Gaggia Classic.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

With the Rocky, remember to purge a second or so of grounds after changing from Espresso to Filter level of grind to get rid of the really fine grinds that will be left in the grinding chamber. If you don't you will notice a "mud like sludge" on the top of the grinds at the end of the brew which may contribute to a bitter edge to the coffee as these finer grinds will have massively over extracted compared to the filter sized grounds, this being one of the reasons for keeping 1 grinder for espresso and 1 for filter etc. Even with the R120 I will sacrifice a few beans to ensure what am getting out is just what am expecting and this is a grinder designed for multi grind levels or "back and forth"

The Rocky being stepped at least allows you to get back to where you were each time consistently and if do the above you may find this is fine for yourself and needs, if not, get another grinder







(last bit a little bit tongue in cheek)

John


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## malkyvich (Jan 25, 2019)

How you getting on with the moccamaster?


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Good, I like it for large batches. Since getting niche zero had no problems with the overflowing. That must have been due to small fines from the rocky grinder.

Wish I had bought metal carafe version, now I use proper coffee can tell if it has been on hotplate.

Wish I had got a version that lets you steep for a while. If I do it on mine it makes a mess.

I like it though. Typical do 30 or 45g with 500 or 750ml water. Put some straight into mug and rest in a thermos.


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

@johnealey didn't take me long to upgrade. Glad I got into coffee making just in time for the first niche zero batch


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## malkyvich (Jan 25, 2019)

Just bloom without the jug being underneath and when you do put it under look beneath from the side and you can direct the flow. I too wouldve preferred the older model with the shut off switch.

Im gonna upgrade grinder too. Ive been using a Bodum burr grinder which is good for a finer grind but when you go coarser its not so uniform. Looking at the Wilfa which is great at £100 UK.


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Yeah when I do that it overflows and gets coffee all over. I was thinking of cutting a hole into the lid, so I could just rotate the jug to turn off and on the flow. Would be better than putting jug back in as it just gets everywhere for me.

Niche is amazing, you can just switch between espresso and filter. But yeah expensive, I like to just get what I will eventually want rather than doing too many upgrades and spending 3x as much, and niche is very good price for quality afaik. so next step up would be >£1200 and I probably will never spend that money. It is a completely different world to rocky, whereas another upgrade would probably be marginal gains.


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