# Am I making a big mistake?



## EMEC (Dec 18, 2016)

I 'm on the verge of buying this: https://www.gumtree.com/p/restaurant-catering-equipment/fracino-stainles-steel-coffe-machine-produce-up-to-240-cappuccinos-400-espressos-per-hour/1229392752

The blurb says it's a Fracino FCX. Does that mean it's a classic or a different model? It's four years old and should cost me £220.

We're about to start running a B&B and offering afternoon teas and I will cause myself an early death if I try and produce more than two cappuccini in less than ten minutes on my [beloved] Gaggia classic so I've been looking for anything with two groups and the possibility of making a shot and frothing milk before the coffee's gone cold and / or potential customer has gone elsewhere - and all for about £200. This seems to fit the bill but I have no idea what I'm doing really - does anyone have any thoughts?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Hard water down there so may well need a full descale and service so best to look up the cost of this before buying anything. It doesn't look in bad condition so hopefully has been looked after well, I would expect a lot worse from a pub!

Assume you are going to go and see it before making a purchasing decision?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

looks pretty well used judging from the pictures 4kw - will need more than a 13amp socket - have a look at the rating plate it probably says 16amp


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

If you are not using it close to its full potential it could prove quite expensive to run (14 lit to heat up and maintain) just for a few coffees ?

This in addition to possibly having a socket wired for it and any parts required / servicing. In addition you would need it pressure tested.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

EMEC said:


> I 'm on the verge of buying this: https://www.gumtree.com/p/restaurant-catering-equipment/fracino-stainles-steel-coffe-machine-produce-up-to-240-cappuccinos-400-espressos-per-hour/1229392752
> 
> The blurb says it's a Fracino FCX. Does that mean it's a classic or a different model? It's four years old and should cost me £220.
> 
> We're about to start running a B&B and offering afternoon teas and I will cause myself an early death if I try and produce more than two cappuccini in less than ten minutes on my [beloved] Gaggia classic so I've been looking for anything with two groups and the possibility of making a shot and frothing milk before the coffee's gone cold and / or potential customer has gone elsewhere - and all for about £200. This seems to fit the bill but I have no idea what I'm doing really - does anyone have any thoughts?


I suppose you need to ask yourself the following questions

1. Does £200 seems too cheap for a 2 group machine, that's going to reliably produce coffee for your business?

2. It's located in a very hard water area and has no doubt produced LOTs of hot water, bearing in mind the price, do you think it has been lovingly maintained?

3. Where is the 2nd portafilter holder (these often get lost when only 1 group is in use, because the other one failed)?

4. How do you know it's 4 years old (have you seen the recpt.), or does he mean *he has had it for only 4 years?*

*
*5. Do you know enough to properly check this machine over?

6. Do you really need a 2 group machine for a B&B?

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/buying-a-used-commercial-machine

Good luck whatever you decide to do.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

That is not a 4 year old machine. I'll bet you.

I swear that Fracino moved away from that long wand thing about a decade ago!


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## EMEC (Dec 18, 2016)

Thanks very much for all input, duly noted. Could I ask what you would suggest? It's not just for the B&B, it's for the cream teas / coffees by the river .... so I'm thinking reliable and fairly quick.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

a newer version of that sort of thing, but, have you factored in servicing? it might be wise to find a local engineer and see what he has to offer......


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## EMEC (Dec 18, 2016)

To be honest I hadn't thought much beyond 'shiny machine....ooo lovely'. Hmm, perhaps I should do some research rather than leaping on eBay.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

EMEC said:


> To be honest I hadn't thought much beyond 'shiny machine....ooo lovely'. Hmm, perhaps I should do some research rather than leaping on eBay.


Sounds like a good idea!


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi EMEC

With that budget and the cream tea target might be worth investing in some French presses which will then generate some income to pay for the more likely expensive / newer / serviced 2 group machine should you feel this is still what required?

If not cafetieres them maybe a batch brewer and some decent coffee pots? will also be quicker to serve than anything coming out of a 2 group unless you have someone dedicated to manning it

Am just thinking back and don't recall ever having the chance to have a flat white or cappo with a cream tea (although no reason you can't be the first later







)

All the best for the venture, weather just about getting nice enough to sit outside as well!

John


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

That's a good idea, @johnealey A cafetière will look just as elegant as a pot of tea on an afternoon tea table. You could offer a selection of single origin coffees plus a blend, and hot milk or cream to accompany it.

This is my view . . . Unless you want to be a specialist coffee shop then I'd keep a lovely, shiny machine for your own use. The GBP (great British public, and I use that term loosely, I can't think of a better term!) mostly want a big cup of coffee (so you can keep your flat whites), Cappuccino with washing-up style foam topped with plenty of chocolate sprinkles, a tall glass of latte (like Horlicks). Why do you think the free coffee at Waitrose is popular? It's like drinking a pint of milky, pudding-y, viscous something-or-other, that to me isn't really coffee - but people love it! Even at 'up market' afternoon tea establishments you still get served populist style drinks.

Maybe some kind of Bean to Cup machine such as Waitrose use wouldn't be a bad idea, actually!


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Or offer a "cafe misto" type thing of half foamed milk half filter coffee. Then when people ask for a latte offer this and say "it's a more delicate flavour with less of a strong coffee taste" target market delight.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

400 espressos an hour not possible even if you find the other portafilter


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

400 espressos an hour. That's 6.6 epressos per minute... I think at that rate they might be slightly under-extracted and you will need a few baristas to do the appropriate division of labour! What a lot of nonsense...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> 400 espressos an hour. That's 6.6 epressos per minute... I think at that rate they might be slightly under-extracted and you will need a few baristas to do the appropriate division of labour! What a lot of nonsense...


Well if you use 2 portafilters with double spouts, that's 2 espresso every 25 seconds + 15 s to, knock out fill and tamp from dosered grinder....total 40s, so theoretically 6 per minute is possible as an average, but not higher. and as you say 2 baristas will be required. A more realistic figure is 200-240 per hour. However, people love to believe marketing shite.

For their B&B a small 1 group with a Kettle will do fine and produce 2 espressos per minute.....I cannot see a B&B being that busy or people not wanting to wait a few minutes for their coffee....Even if there are 10 adults staying the longest wait for coffee will be around 5 minutes. Assuming they all order simultaneously.


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## EMEC (Dec 18, 2016)

thank you very much to all contributors - not that I want to deter any other comments on the nonsense of marketing hype, the horrible crap that gets served as coffee nor indeed the foolishness of buying a big machine based on a very small photo backed up by zero knowledge / experience / research..... but I didn't buy it and definitely have to agree that French Press is a much more sensible idea. Having said all that though would you really wish a waitrose-stylee machine on me? Please, no!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

EMEC said:


> Having said all that though would you really wish a waitrose-stylee machine on me? Please, no!


Hehe! No! But the queue for the machine at Waitrose today made me look twice! It MUST be because it's fee


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

MildredM said:


> Hehe! No! But the queue for the machine at Waitrose today made me look twice! It MUST be because it's fee


That can only be the reason, the







coffee is bloody awful.


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