# Probs: New Mignon for Silvia



## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

New Eureka Mignon arrived. I'd decided on that one over a Vario, but wasn't sure.

After a morning of pushing & a'shovin, and dancing around the machine with 3 bags of beans, singing incantations, I'm just a confused wreck  The clumps I'm getting even on what seems too coarse a shot are like mountain boulders.

I've decided I know nothing about coffee. My brain has become confused & mushed - which isn't good when combined with excess caffeine. I need someone to remind me of some basic parameters for setting up a shot.

I'm filling double porta & tamping so puck reaches groove. I'm using 2 Hasbeans shot glasses - it is meant to be roughly 25 sec for 1oz, in both glasses, yes? Or one glass? Does it matter?

I'm passing water through head til red light, then waiting for it to go off. Should I do water through wand first too to help temp? Any advice from non PID Silvia owners would be a help.

Please help the dazed & mentally challenged... 


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## Ian_G (Nov 10, 2011)

Hi Shuttergirl Sounds like you've had quite a morning. First, don't worry about the clumps coming out of the Mignon. In my experience they make sod all difference whether you break them up or tamp them directly.

I don't know your machine, but if it works in a similar way to mine here's what to do. Wait for the light to come on - on my machine this signifies the water in the boiler is heating up. Then wait for the light to go off. Immediately it's off, run about half a cup of water out of it. This water should be spitting and spluttering as it's at boiling point and therefore too hot. You should see a fair bit of steam too. And it sounds different to the non boiling water. So once you've done this, attach your portafilter and start the pump. In theory what happens is that you've run off the boiling water and what's left is at the right temperature to ease your frazzled mind.

As a footnote, the amount of water you run off affects the temperature of the water left in the boiler, because what happens is that as hot/boiling water comes out, cool water from the reservoir goes in and cools what's left. The more water you run of the more cool water enters the boiler, so you control your brew temperature in this way.

Of course your machine may not work like mine at all in which case all this advice is useless.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I don't own a Silvia but almost got one so I've done a fair amount of research on them. What you're trying to do by drawing water through the group is called temperature surfing. When you draw (hot) water through the group, the boiler get refilled with (cold) water from the reservoir. Eventually, this cools the boiler enough that the element switches on to heat the water in the boiler up (red light comes on). Drawing this water through the group ensures everything is up to heat. There's no reason to draw water through the steam wand. When the red light switches off, the water in the boiler is too hot. So you wait 30 seconds for it to cool down slightly then pull your shot.

A double basket should produce enough espresso to fill 2 1 oz shot glasses. This should take 25-30 seconds.

You can break up the clumps with a paper clip. It's a bit of a faff doing so. I'd do it for now until you get everything running smoothly. Then try not bothering and see if you pull noticeable worse/ less consistent shots.

It sounds to me like Ian_G has an hx machine and that his advice isn't appropriate to your machine.


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Well, after a few hours stand off between me & the Mignon...during which it stared defiantly & smugly at me... I resumed hostilities....

After 3 bags of slightly older HasBeans (3-4 weeks not keen on beans) I attempted my favourite Monsoon Malibar.

Approx reference grind point I thought I'd found on Mignon was useless & I swear the number sticker arrow on the dial is now backwards, as when I think I'm going finer the shot speeds up.

The house DIY hammers have been hidden safely while the caffeine wears off...


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## Ian_G (Nov 10, 2011)

Different beans require different grinds. The darker the bean the coarser you need to grind. This is n't rocket science. Use your current beans to get a 25 second pull and then taste.

AlIam, yes I have an hx machine. Sorry to cause confusion.

Shuttergirl - you're nearly there. Don't worry the Mignon is your friend.


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

All you need to know about the Silvia, temp surfing cleaning etc can be found on the very good video's from Gail and Kat at http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com they cover just about everything you need to know on the Silvia well worth watching


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Somewhere on here is my review of the Mignon which is a great machine which will take you through my dialling in experience. As I recall wind it as fine as it goes until it will not actually grind then back it off until it will actually grind something. i.e grind as fine as you can. Do not worry about clumps. Your machine will likely choke on the finest grind so then back off some more on the Mignon until you get a rat's tail type pour. Stick with it, I was buzzing like a buzzy thing on my first day with the Mignon


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I say this ^ I set it until it wouldn't grind and then went up. The result was a highly caffeinated me and the house smelling of that lush coffee. The clumps are very common for me, I was warned about it. Meanwhile, my machine is warming up and the Mignon is geared up ready to brew some more


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

I've developed a new formula.

Am now using clump size to judge. If the porta is filled with rabbit dropping cylinder shaped clumps, it's more or less 25 sec.

If they start going Lego/brick shape it's too fine. Round boulders n it's too coarse.

Simples. 

Thanks for the advice on temp surfing. I did find a YouTube vid that helped a bit. Quick hot water flashes until red light comes on after an attempt. Boiler recycling. Wait for red light off. Then brief hot water/steam flush.

Maybe somewhere there is a company that has a PID fitting service. Couldn't do it myself & would love to cut out this temp lottery. How much do you have to spend on a decent machine to get a temp gauge built in???


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Update: have found a useable reference point & have tamed the Mignon a little.

So far, I havent changed my preference of bean from when using the Dualit - it's still Has Beans Monsoon Malabar. But I am admittedly getting a better break down/separation of bean nuances & flavours with the Mignon.

One thing that would help my life (other than a change of man in my life who can fit a bleedin PID lol) is a separate evening hopper for decaf. Not sure where to buy extra Mignon hoppers.


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Not sure where you got the Mignon from, but I would try asking Claudette at Bella Barista, always found to be very helpful

Mike100


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

can you take the hopper off without all the beans in it spilling out?


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Yes, there's a handy metal lip thing that you open & close in the neck of the hopper.










You still get beans left in the top of the grinder, but easy to tip them out.


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## jimrobo (Aug 5, 2011)

Shuttergirl said:


> Update: have found a useable reference point & have tamed the Mignon a little.
> 
> So far, I havent changed my preference of bean from when using the Dualit - it's still Has Beans Monsoon Malabar. But I am admittedly getting a better break down/separation of bean nuances & flavours with the Mignon.
> 
> One thing that would help my life (other than a change of man in my life who can fit a bleedin PID lol) is a separate evening hopper for decaf. Not sure where to buy extra Mignon hoppers.


I found my mignon seems to struggle a little with my monsoon malabar. It must be slightly denser than a normal coffee bean. It still grinds it ok but it literally spits it out everywhere. It seems to get stuck in the doser then all of it come out at once. Only seems to happen with malabar though


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

I've found I had to go finer with the HasBeans Malabar than their other beans. No idea why, especially as they seem darker & oilier than their other beans - I thought that usually meant coarser...??


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

Seems it doesnt. I have been trying some sample beans from Cafe Society and they are really oily compared to Square Miles Red Brick i have been using and i have had to go finer.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi Shuttergirl. Glad you're making progress. It seriously takes a good month or so to get the hang of a new grinder. Don't expect god shots in the first week, especially as you've not owned a grinder of this quality before. I'll just add a few points from my experience. The Silvia is a very tricky machine to work with but once you've got the hang of it, it can produce shots of exceptional quality. It needs in my opinion at least an hour to warm up. I temp surf my Silvia with very consistent results. I flush the group head and wait for the light to come on, then start the shot exactly 30 seconds after that light goes out. If your machine is well warmed through this is pretty consistent. Remember your shot is timed from the moment you hit the brew switch, not the moment you see coffee appearing. Clumping is normal. I get it worse with some beans and less with others. I can now tell if the grind is too fine or coarse just by watching the speed and clump size as the grinds come out. You will get some beans that are a lot harder to dial in than others so prepare to be frustrated sometimes. You will also get an element of grind retention that will end up in your next shot so if your last shot came out too fast and you grind finer the next shot will not be entirely finer as there will be residual grinds left over from the previous shot. To get around this I always chuck a few beans in and run them through on the new setting before starting again. But above all don't panic you'll soon get the hang of it..... and if you find somewhere that does PID's in the UK let me know as I want one but don't want to chance import tax from Canada


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi Monkey

Yes, I let Silvia warm up

for 45 mins before I go anywhere near. I haven't found a def temp surf method yet that I'd stick with. If anything, as long as she's warmed up, the less I do the better... lol but practice will help I'm sure.

It may be that 6 months down the line I upgrade to a different machine with an inbuilt thermometer, but its certainly fun experimenting.

I've found using the retainer box from the Dualit with the Mignon is stopping most of the clumping, as it declumps from the drop height. Not sure if thats ok for the distribution etc - maybe buying the doser would be better. I don't know if other Mignon owners use a recepticle rather than straight into the basket...


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Clumping is a fairly common problem with doserless grinders - dosers help to break up the clumps. You could try using the Weiss Distribution Technique to break up the clumps after dosing.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

The best distribution I've ever had was using a variation on WDT where I filled the basket one third, stirred until level and declumped, then repeated for the next two thirds until fill. Then just tamp without any more touching. Bottomless portafilter showed a lovely brown central flow. (However, I've stopped using WDT now and haven't noticed any problems. Can't explain why!)


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## Ian_G (Nov 10, 2011)

I don't know if other Mignon owners use a recepticle rather than straight into the basket...

I dose straight into the pf basket. I tried various techniques with the clumps e.g. tapping the basket on the work surface to break them up; using a needle to stir them around; shaking the basket as it's being dosed. Then I tried the can't be arsed method and could not tell the difference. I even bought a bottomless pf to check. First time I used it was perfect; second time not so good, but still tasted fine to me. So I have n't used the bottomless pf since.

However, if you really need to know which is best between breaking up the clumps or just leaving them, then a bottomless pf would be the way to go.


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

I use both methods depending on my mood but usually I use a recepticle and I do not break up clumps though I do a quick tamp with the basket two thirds full and then a proper tamp when full


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Ian_G said:


> I tried the can't be arsed method


I'm also a big fan of this method. Depends if it's a Sunday morning or Monday morning.


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Where do ppl get their bottomless Silvia portafilters from? the only ones I've seen have been out of stock etc.

I have got an old spare Gaggia classic portafilter somewhere - maybe someone could torch the bottom out 


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

My Espresso do them for £29.50 with a 21gm basket, Happy Donkey and Coffee Hit do them but are out of stock

Coffee Italia say they do but best avoid this supplier

Mike 100


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

Can I ask if you are weighing the quantity of coffee that is in your PF? Different grinders can mean different weights even if the volume appears to look the same. I would suggest weighing the ground coffee to ensure that particular variable is fixed. Trying something like 16 or 18g for a double.


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Hi

I always used to weigh the beans pre-grind. At the moment I'm using the Mignon on its timer setting - find 2 presses of the button gives just enough for a filled heap in a 14g basket. I then distribute and discard so basket is filled flat to rim, then tamper.


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## bobbytoad (Aug 12, 2011)

Is the Mignon a re-badged one of these? Nuova Simonelli MCI - http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Nuova-Simonelli-MCI-p/scg15016.htm


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## jimrobo (Aug 5, 2011)

Looks exactly the same as my mignon


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Looks exactly the same to me.


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## bobbytoad (Aug 12, 2011)

Makes it sound like an even bigger bargain - nice to see the Americans paying more for something $700 (£440-ish) for the same/re-badged grinder WOW!!

Makes me want one even more









Ps. did you make any progress trying to get a second hopper?


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Not yet - put it on hold til the Xmas expense is over 

I'm getting some beautiful shots now tho. The fine tuning on the grinder is doing its job vv well


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

Shuttergirl, how much space is there between the front feet of the grinder? I'm looking at a photo and wondering whether I could squeeze a small digital scale in there, so that I could dose by weight easily by removing the portafilter fork and grinding into a small cup that would sit on the scale.

Example: this scale that HasBean sell, which is quoted as 6cm across. If the feet are far apart enough that a 58mm portafilter can easily sit between them, then a scale such as this ought to fit as well. But from the photo of the grinder, I can't really tell whether there's that amount of clearance between the feet or not.


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## jimrobo (Aug 5, 2011)

just had a look at this on mine. Doing it at the bottom is going to leave a large space for the coffee to fall and you will likely get a lot of wastage.

Looking at it I would say the best thing to do is unscrew the portafilter holder (it unscrews - just checked) and get a thin metal plate the same size as the scales from has beans and the lengh of a portafilter. Stick the plate on the portafilter holder and screw it back into place. As long as the scales are fairly slim the portafilter will rest perfect on the scales and you can still use the dispense button above the portafilter holder. Might even try this myself!


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

That approach should work well for dosing into a ridgeless basket, but I wonder how well it will work for a PF+basket combination. My bottomless PF + basket combination weighs about 320 grams -- but found it very hard to get a really precise weight while trying to hold the PF level at the same time. It may work for people more dexterous than I, but I can see that I won't get a reliably consistent weight if my hands are on the thing. Also this exceeds the 300g capacity of the particular scale I linked to (though others may have higher capacities).

For my own purposes I think I prefer the idea of dosing into a container that sits on a scale between the grinder's feet. I imagine it must be possible to obtain or fabricate a container that is tall enough and/or flared enough to catch all the coffee despite the extra inches it has to fall, and this seems surer to me than trying to get a precise weight while preventing a heavy-handled PF from tipping over.


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

The distance between the base legs/sides is abt 5.3 or .4cm... I'd say 5.2 max for the measurement of anything to fit in.


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

I know exactly what you mean - I dose into the old container from my Dualit. It's just a 0.1 or 0.2mm too wide to stand within the legs cleanly, but with a tilt it rests there.

The height of the Dualit container works perfectly, no wastage/overspill on the counter. (Just can't weigh on a tilt)

I'm always on the look out for a similar container that would sit neatly there. If one never turns up I guess I could get some clay & make n paint my own... 


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

Thank you! That's very helpful.


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## bobbytoad (Aug 12, 2011)

Spare hopper - http://www.espressoparts.com/S15800002

The mignon appears to be a re badged version of the more expensive Simonelli, or vica versa


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

I am really enjoying my new Mignon, by the way. Including that removable hopper. I can't always finish a whole bag of beans before it goes stale, so it's nice that it's so simple to close off the bottom of the hopper and just lift it off, instead of having to turn the whole grinder over to get the old beans out. (Lifting off the hopper leaves 10g - yes, I weighed - of beans in the throat, which can be dispensed with in a few seconds of grinding.)

As for grinding by weight, for the time being I've taken the simple way out and I just grind into a little plastic cup, and alternate between grinding for a second or two and weighing once I start getting close. It's actually proven to be a very satisfactory method.

By the way, my advice to prospective Mignon owners is to go ahead and get a shiny one. It's such a nice little grinder that it makes me want to hurry up and upgrade my espresso machine, and the upgraded ones all tend to be pretty and shiny, so really the Mignon ought to be dressed for the party as well. I got the 'silver' (matte-finish metal), but if I had it to do over again, I'd go chrome or gloss black.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

As luck would have it Londinium Espresso has a discount on the 'shiny' grinders

The @lespresso tweet states "£50 off the superb Eureka doserless grinder here http://t.co/yX4EdVPK . Just enter 'Eureka' as the promotion code at the checkout"


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