# Question about prices



## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

Hello,

First of all, very nice forum! Has a wealth of information and really glad i found it.

Now to my question. Coffee is being treated as a commodity on the stock exchange, with a set global price. Much like gold. Yet, gold i can buy as a bullion at prices very close to the stock exchange price. Raw coffee beans are being traded at around $3.7/kg. But with extensive search i have found absolutely no place to buy it for a price even close to that, not even in bulk.

Thing is, if the demand was so great to justify the insanely expensive price wholemarket sales have then the commodity price would increase along it. This is not true.

Does anyone know of any plantations that sell raw coffee beans for reasonable prices close to trade price?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

you're looking at the price of commodity coffee on the stock market and not the specialty coffee that's of more interest to us nerds.

if you want to by commodity coffee at wholesale prices you're going to have to buy wholesale volumes.

you can buy cheaper commodity coffee from sellers in the uk, but to be honest don't bother, it's not great.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

At the op, try telling coffee producers and farmers that the price they are getting is " insanely expensive " . Some perspective on quality and price differences between commodity v specialty coffee is required here .


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I guess I could buy gold bullion "cheaply" but for a handcrafted goldsmith made necklace I'd be paying significantly more "per gram"


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

All coffee farmers sell their processed but unroasted beans and many sell directly to a roaster, who frequently works hard to develop a constructive and productive relationship with the farmer, not least to ensure that the farmer can make a living. A lot of speciality UK roasters travel out to farms and blog about their experiences. Try Steve Leighton at Has Bean for starters. Another answer to your question is to wonder how far you are prepared to travel to buy beans from the farm gate? I'm sure that if you turned up a farmer would be willing to sell you some beans - assuming that you were there at the right time of year.


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

Thanks for the answers

>>Mrboots & missy

I suppose a crafted necklace would be equivalent to roasted coffee beans. I am not interested in that, i want raw green coffee beans to roast myself. The commodity price is set by demand and supply, so technically if someone tries to sell green coffee beans for prices twice the commodity price its fair to call it overpriced.

>>Phobic

I am looking for wholesale volumes at a fair price. But obviously not from UK but rather from some firm in the export countries. The coffee is supposed to be unroasted so i can agree its probably not very great.

>>Phil

I suppose you are right. The best way is to travel to plantations and buy straight off them. But i think its strange that plantations have not commercialized it yet on internet. I am able to find pretty much any other commodity at reasonable price, even pure cotton. But coffee, no.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Caffeine said:


> Thanks for the answers...
> 
> I suppose you are right. The best way is to travel to plantations and buy straight off them..


And you'd have a lot of fun, too. If you search for 'Cuba' on the forum you should unearth a post from Glenn about his visit to a farm as part of a holiday in Cuba.

You could try emailing a farm direct and ask them.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

@Caffeine that's not the case. The small crop single origin farmers whose quality of stuff makes it into the small scale quality roaster is also high quality crop.

I'd second Phil104 and say go and buy some direct! What a fun and fascinating holiday!

Heard an interesting thing on Radio4 that in the energy futures market less than 3% of trades actually involve actual energy being bought and sold. Mostly it's people gambling on what it may or may not be worth, and has no relevance to actual stuff.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

This bloke is selling for £5 per kilo if you buy 60kg.

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Green-Coffee-Beans-RAW-India-Cherry-DIY-Home-Roasting-10kg-30kg-60kg-ROBUSTA-UK-/371599519384?var=640610702176&hash=item56850eae98%3Am%3AmzeHWRqf1-IyWJKn_yxWVAA&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac94411a5-f99a-11e6-aafd-74dbd18017fd%257Cparentrq%253A69e6579f15a0a60cca28e1d8ffef6864%257Ciid%253A7&varId=640610702179

If you take your market price, add shipping, vat, duty, eBay fees and a small profit for the seller then it seems about right.

So, or either looking in the wrong place or at the wrong type of coffee.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

There's an awful lot of coffee in the world . . . .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> There's an awful lot of coffee in the world . . . .


Your right there , but there is alot that i wouldn't want to drink


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Your right there , but there is alot that i wouldn't want to drink


Indeed. Ok . . . There's a lot of awful coffee in the world . . . !


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Caffeine said:


> Does anyone know of any plantations that sell raw coffee beans for reasonable prices close to trade price?


Commodity coffee is produced to a price not quality and is controlled by big international companies keeping farmers at subsistence level - check out the film Black Gold. Profit is made at the 'added value level' further down the line. Germany is a coffee giant making a lot out of coffee without growing a single bean.

Thanks to programmes like Coffee of Excellence begun in 1999 by Susie Spindler and others, farmers were encouraged to invest more effort in growing, cultivating and processing their coffees and being paid a premium price. There are sellers on this forum who have developed direct relationships with growers to encourage them raise quality and be rewarded, price-wise, for so doing. It's a drop in the ocean but it's a start.

If you're drinking coffee using cheap beans - quality will be naff and someone else, i.e. the farmer, will be paying for your to drink it.


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

Xpenno said:


> This bloke is selling for £5 per kilo if you buy 60kg.
> 
> http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Green-Coffee-Beans-RAW-India-Cherry-DIY-Home-Roasting-10kg-30kg-60kg-ROBUSTA-UK-/371599519384?var=640610702176&hash=item56850eae98%3Am%3AmzeHWRqf1-IyWJKn_yxWVAA&_trkparms=pageci%253Ac94411a5-f99a-11e6-aafd-74dbd18017fd%257Cparentrq%253A69e6579f15a0a60cca28e1d8ffef6864%257Ciid%253A7&varId=640610702179
> 
> ...


Nice find, i avoided ebay due to several reasons. But you proved me that its possible to get coffee for a reasonable price so i i'll continue looking.

If he is able to profit off of £5 per kg then his purchase price must have been near market price.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Caffeine said:


> Nice find, i avoided ebay due to several reasons. But you proved me that its possible to get coffee for a reasonable price so i i'll continue looking.
> 
> If he is able to profit off of £5 per kg then his purchase price must have been near market price.


Are you bothered what it taste's like at all? It's Robusta he is selling


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Commodity coffee is produced to a price not quality and is controlled by big international companies keeping farmers at subsistence level - check out the film Black Gold. Profit is made at the 'added value level' further down the line. Germany is a coffee giant making a lot out of coffee without growing a single bean.
> 
> Thanks to programmes like Coffee of Excellence begun in 1999 by Susie Spindler and others, farmers were encouraged to invest more effort in growing, cultivating and processing their coffees and being paid a premium price. There are sellers on this forum who have developed direct relationships with growers to encourage them raise quality and be rewarded, price-wise, for so doing. It's a drop in the ocean but it's a start.
> 
> If you're drinking coffee using cheap beans - quality will be naff and someone else, i.e. the farmer, will be paying for your to drink it.


Its an unfair world but i didnt make the rules. I wouldnt mind paying 50% more than market price per kg for better quality, in fact i prefer it. But i want to avoid the middleman at all costs, and it is exactly those middlemen that i have come across while researching.

On the other hand i have dealt with chinese for years and i know that even sources barter to increase the price for the same low quality you can get elsewhere cheaper. Its all about knowing what you are buying and its value.


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you bothered what it taste's like at all? It's Robusta he is selling


Of course taste is very important. I have experience with "cheap" brands sold at wholesale stores. I doubt what he is selling is worse than what they are selling. And they are selling it for £20 per kg


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Caffeine said:


> Of course taste is very important. I have experience with "cheap" brands sold at wholesale stores. I doubt what he is selling is worse than what they are selling. And they are selling it for £20 per kg


Have you tried Robusta on it's own.... if you had you might not be making that statement . Or you have no taste buds at all.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There is already enough poor quality coffee in the world being passed of as hand roasted etc. Please do't add to it. If you do please don't sell it on here.

I am a coffee snob, yes , guilty. If i can't be one on this forum where can i be?


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have you tried Robusta on it's own.... if you had you might not be making that statement . Or you have no taste buds at all.


I have, middle roast, meant for filter coffee. Some pure robusta brands are popular. What is your point? Are you implying all robusta beans are bad?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Caffeine said:


> Are you implying all robusta beans are bad?


Ive cupped some of the very highest grade robusta (i.e. grown, processed and roasted with care) I don't have any desire to repeat the experience


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Caffeine said:


> I have, middle roast, meant for filter coffee. Some pure robusta brands are popular. What is your point? Are you implying all robusta beans are bad?


For me yes , undrinkable . I have had high quality robusta , roasted by pro's . It was awful.

Macdoanalds are popular doesn't mean they are quality or the best ....


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

Well i can safetly assume i am way out of my league if i am to speak about high quality coffee here









I love coffee but my experiences only take me as far. To me the supermarket coffee is the standard benchmark. So its all relative i guess. Personally i dont mind pure robusta at all. But i will take your opinions into consideration and aim for raw arabica then


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

How much are you looking to buy?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Like most things in life there's a market for cheap terrible coffee. But you're in the wrong place entirely!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Caffeine said:


> I have, middle roast, meant for filter coffee. Some pure robusta brands are popular. What is your point? Are you implying all robusta beans are bad?


Oh dear, I mean seriously OH DEAR, Have you any idea what good coffee tastes like?


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Who goes into wholesale green buying without talking to an importer first?


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## BrownBottleCoffee (Sep 28, 2016)

I've just joined here myself & can definitely say that all the member I have come across so far have been welcoming & extremely helpful.

To break it down really quickly and easily:

1. The coffee being sold on the stock exchange is commercial grade

2. Most if not everyone here are fans of speciality high grade coffee

3. With coffee beans you get what you pay for

4. The commodity market is completely separate to the speciality coffee market

5. To achieve the "best price" you would have to be importing large wholesale volume

In terms of working directly with a farmer/grower there will definitely be minimum order quantities if you're just after a few kilos (i say this because you didn't specify your quantity required) it will be difficult to get the "best deal".

This being said your target price of $3.7 is maybe a little keen for speciality coffee, perhaps a little more research about the speciality coffee market might help.

Good luck !!



Caffeine said:


> Hello,
> 
> First of all, very nice forum! Has a wealth of information and really glad i found it.
> 
> ...


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Jon said:


> Like most things in life there's a market for cheap terrible coffee. But you're in the wrong place entirely!


Does Glenn need to rename us to the elitist speciality coffee forum?

The guy seemed to have a legit question about sourcing some cheap green beans. Of course we can make recommendations but to make him unwelcome because of his preference is a bit much in my opinion.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

I'm with Xpenno. Some of the responses here were genuinely educational and informative. Some were just provocative and unhelpful.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Xpenno said:


> Does Glenn need to rename us to the elitist speciality coffee forum?
> 
> The guy seemed to have a legit question about sourcing some cheap green beans. Of course we can make recommendations but to make him unwelcome because of his preference is a bit much in my opinion.


I wasn't saying he was in the wrong place per se. Just in the wrong place to gain a positive opinion on the cheapest lowest quality commodity coffee.

Obviously everyone is welcome and I've always argued against elitism here BUT it's going to be hard to get an opinion on where to source the cheapest product when most active users are proponents of good quality coffee and fair sustainable pricing for the hard working coffee farmer.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I watched a really interesting documentary last night, which asked the fundamental question, are we letting PC take over to the detriment of free speech......


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

BrownBottleCoffee said:


> I've just joined here myself & can definitely say that all the member I have come across so far have been welcoming & extremely helpful.
> 
> To break it down really quickly and easily:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!

Yes it is commercial grade coffee im looking for. After all that is the quality that the majority of coffee drinkers drink, hence being commercial grade. I am aware (now, lol) that this is a forum for coffee enthusiasts that sample only the finest coffee. Regardless, its a good place to search for information.

To clarify, i am looking to stock quantities up to 100kg or more depending on price and relative quality. I am not looking for a few bags so i can spare a couple of bucks off supermarket price.



Scotford said:


> Who goes into wholesale green buying without talking to an importer first?


You think an importer dealing with coffee would tell the truth? I am literally a competitor. Made a similar mistake before.

[/QUOTE]


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

"100kg or more" is in the area that small micro roasters hold so you may find that you are not in fact a competitor but a smaller scale customer.

I offer this up not to be pithy or argumentative but so that you aware that you may be ruling out some free guidance / advice based on a lack of detailed knowledge of the coffee industry and wholesale / import within this field. Some importers will even have a minimum of a 5 sack order before they will even deal with you which given the average sack size is approx. 60kg dependant on where it comes from in the world is 300kg at a time, other importers are full sack and up. If you start to import directly 16+tonne at a time in a container then you may well then be classed as a competitor.

I am currently running down stocks for new season offerings ordinarily I would have somewhere in the region of 130-150kg ready to hand and if stock at the importer looking low would increase this to 210 or more, which is in the 3 sack region ( I am therefore very much in the micro roaster size as mentioned above)

You might want to do a search in the home roasters section for a thread call UK green bean importers which could be useful to you, bearing in mind most until you get to the commercial ones I have listed in there, will deal primarily in part bags but also concentrate on the more expensive (and better) Arabica varieties.

Hope of help

John


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## Caffeine (Feb 22, 2017)

johnealey said:


> "100kg or more" is in the area that small micro roasters hold so you may find that you are not in fact a competitor but a smaller scale customer.
> 
> I offer this up not to be pithy or argumentative but so that you aware that you may be ruling out some free guidance / advice based on a lack of detailed knowledge of the coffee industry and wholesale / import within this field. Some importers will even have a minimum of a 5 sack order before they will even deal with you which given the average sack size is approx. 60kg dependant on where it comes from in the world is 300kg at a time, other importers are full sack and up. If you start to import directly 16+tonne at a time in a container then you may well then be classed as a competitor.
> 
> ...


Good post. I checked that other thread you mentioned and your post. Smallbatchroasting has very acceptable prices


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Jon said:


> I wasn't saying he was in the wrong place per se. Just in the wrong place to gain a positive opinion on the cheapest lowest quality commodity coffee.
> 
> Obviously everyone is welcome and I've always argued against elitism here BUT it's going to be hard to get an opinion on where to source the cheapest product when most active users are proponents of good quality coffee and fair sustainable pricing for the hard working coffee farmer.


I agree with this but you never know what experiences people on here might have. I'm constantly surprised


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Caffeine said:


> ...I am looking to stock quantities up to 100kg or more ...
> 
> ...I am literally a competitor...


Oh lol. At those quantities you'd be more of a nano-roaster. Talk to an importer about setting up direct trade links.


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## JahLaza (Mar 18, 2021)

While I know this thread has been inactive a while I thought it was the most appropriate for my query regarding global coffee prices. Since spending a lot of money getting set up this year my family/mates have observed with a grin my new hobby (home espresso)! So lately I've received a couple of links to articles regarding the impending hike in coffee prices as a result of the frost in Brazil, civilian turmoil in Columbia, shipping price hikes as a result of covid and crop failures in Vietnam and other producing nations. Ultimately this will probably lead to a hike in coffee bean prices by the end of this year/early next year and on (according to the articles I've read) Has anyone any insight here into this? Are we set to be spending more on the beans or has it been somehow absorbed already?

https://www.fastcompany.com/90682550/why-coffee-prices-are-skyrocketing


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Yes, green coffee prices have increased significantly already. Unless roasters have large stocks already booked then they will already be paying these prices and I would expect it to be reflected already in some pricing. We have been sucking up price increases for coffee in our blends but it is not sustainable for us long term. We have not raised our prices on the like of Signature Blend and CPB since we started roasting a few years ago but we will have to soon.

By way of an example Brazil Fazenda Paraiso that we have had on in the past is now 40% more expensive than last time we purchased. The prices of Brazilian coffees have had a double whammy of course due to the frost but because they are such a large part of the coffee market they have a knock on effect elsewhere when they go up.

I'd estimate we are paying 20%+ across the board now and I do not expect prices to go down in 2022. Unfortunately I think people are going to have to get used to paying more.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> By way of an example Brazil Fazenda Paraiso that we have had on in the past is now 40% more expensive than last time we purchased. The prices of Brazilian coffees have had a double whammy of course due to the frost but because they are such a large part of the coffee market they have a knock on effect elsewhere when they go up.


 Also, worth noting the Brazilian Real (BRL) has significantly lost value against the US Dollar (USD) and the British Pound Sterling (GBP), by a tune of approx. 40% if compared to November 2019, therefore becoming a lot cheaper to Brazilian external markets. So, in terms of the Brazilian domestic value, not considering foreign exchange rates, the price of coffee has literally gone through the roof and skyrocketed afterwards, a lot more than what's perceived over here.

https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=BRL&view=2Y


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## Coffee by the Casuals (Sep 15, 2020)

I can echo what @BlackCatCoffeehas said.

We're in an unenviable position of starting a wholesale base from scratch, being told left and right that we're too expensive, but having costs (reasonably, in the main) pushed up.

I suspect this is going to be one of the factors that will start market consolidation of roasteries. It isn't an easy business to be in, and if cost becomes king then there will be many a micro-roaster that suffers.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

We get lots of offer lists on a Monday and just had one come through and the accompanying blurb mentions shipping costs for a single container have risen 6 fold on some routes from 2.5k to approx 15k.

Strap yourselves in for an expensive 2022 folks!


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## JahLaza (Mar 18, 2021)

AH NOOO! I didn't want to start a dedicated discussion to underpin rising costs, I came here to escape my mates jibes at the rising costs of coffee!! Give me some good news please 😊


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

JahLaza said:


> AH NOOO! I didn't want to start a dedicated discussion to underpin rising costs, I came here to escape my mates jibes at the rising costs of coffee!! Give me some good news please 😊


 Cost per cup for even a very expensive and rare single origin coffee that you make at home is still way below what you would pay for a cup of 'brown' at a petrol station forecourt in a paper cup.

That's the best I can do!


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## JahLaza (Mar 18, 2021)

No good, haven't thrown money away at those places in a few years😂😂 thanks for the effort tho!


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