# How Did I Manage That?



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

First double shot this morning. 18g in and 32g out. Total time was 21 sec. Somehow it was bitter and not under extracted. How in flip did I manage that?

I won't mention the beans as its not down to the beans (have had some lovely coffee from these). It is definitely operator error.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I'm not doubting it, just interested what makes you say it was bitter and not under extracted?


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

If it's bitter and not sour it's a bit of a strange one...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Chaneling so the coffee that was in contact with the water got overextracted?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Isn't sour espresso down to under extracting and bitter is from over extracting?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sourness is most usually underextraction, bitterness can have all sorts of causes, including various stages of underextraction.

18:32 in 21sec...if I were a betting man I'd put money on under.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If its a dark roast then a fast shot will be bitter


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

The next shot was 28 secs and tasted good. I suspect it might have been channeling as it was early, I was tired and probably not being as methodical as I should.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

And definitely bitter and not sour.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ridland said:


> And definitely bitter and not sour.


Sourness/tartness/sharpness tend to point to under-extraction so can be a reasonable diagnostic.

Bitterness is commonly associated with over-extraction, but if you try hard enough you can make any coffee bitter 

Jeebsy's example above is a good one, say you had channelling, the small proportion of grounds that the water had access to could be stripped of all their solubles (over), but the majority of the puck could be more wet than extracted...overall, the cup is under-extracted, but the overriding perception could be down to the few who spoil it for the rest.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

ridland said:


> And definitely bitter and not sour.


Out of interest, when we talk about bitter and sour can anyone give examples of tastes associated with it? I'm trying to develop the palate and I'm unsure if what I can taste is bitterness or sourness?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> Out of interest, when we talk about bitter and sour can anyone give examples of tastes associated with it? I'm trying to develop the palate and I'm unsure if what I can taste is bitterness or sourness?


Earwax is very very bitter (disgusting idea to taste it I know)

Lime juice is sour


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Earwax is very very bitter (disgusting idea to taste it I know)
> 
> Lime juice is sour


Wonders if anyone will be cleaning their ears for taste comparisons. I daren't ask how you know earwax is bitter!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> Earwax is very very bitter (disgusting idea to taste it I know)
> 
> Lime juice is sour


Fantastic. Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sour: Gooseberries, rhubarb, unsweetened lemon/grapefruit juice, acidic, sharp, tart flavours, that make your mouth pucker up. Can also be slightly tangy, metallic flavours in darker roasts.

Bitter: Bitter beer, chicory, unsweetened cocoa, quinine (bitter taste in tonic water), olives, citrus peel. Overextracted coffee can be bitter, smokey, ashy, drying on the palate.


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