# Fracino Piccino



## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Here is the content of an Email from John Cook at Fracino, I have contacted Glenn about following it up and sorting out making the pictures and brochure available on the forum.

Hello Don

Thank you for your email.

We at Fracino are very excited by the Piccino as this is our first foray into the Home market for our coffee machines.

For your information I attach a brochure for the Piccino together with some pdfs of the machine and the grinders and knockout drawers that we also supply as accompanyments.We are also supplying a full range of barista items and currently building a new web site http://www.fracino4u.com where the consumer will be able to purchase everything.

I would be interested to know how many members you have and how you can disseminate information as we are very keen for reviews of the Piccino to be posted on the web. This will be the only British made Home coffee machine and of a high quality.

The retail price for the standard model in black is 510 plus inc VAT plus 20 delivery(plus VAT. The coloured versions are 20 extra plus VAT but we will match any colour for the customer as long as they can give us an RAL or Pantone reference. There will also be a number of colours on our website for customers to chose from as well.

I hope the above is informative and look forward to your comments.

Best regards

John Cook

Sales and marketing Executive

Fracino


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

My initial reply to John at Fracino

Hi John

Thanks very much for your reply, I am in process of arranging for our

forum lead, Glenn to get in contact directly with you about our forum

and its membership.

He should also be making the information you sent me available directly

on the forum. A number of us are somewhat excited about the prospect of

a UK sourced espresso machine aimed at the domestic market, particularly

with the benefit of two proper boilers. there is talk of perhaps

arranging for some of us to come to the factory for some hands on

experience with the Piccino, assuming this would be a viable prospect.

This, I am sure would lead to those involved generating reviews of their

experiences with the machine on the forum and consequently for

yourselves at fracino.

Don Ross-Johnson


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

*Fracino Piccino Product Page*


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Nice one Don. Look forward to seeing how this develops. I should imagine this site could be an invaluable form of promotion for them in way of some independent reviews. Apart from the number of members I've noticed there is always a high level of guests on here and anyone parting with that amount of cash for something so specific will be browsing forums looking for info.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks to both Don and Glenn in advance, looking forward to seeing how this one goes.

No answer on a competition prize I'm guessing?!


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Nice try Sandy









However, you never know!


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

OK, more feedback from John Cook at Fracino and it looks like he would be up for a factory visit by the forum for a tour and an opportunity to test drive the Piccino.

I think we should give Glenn time to liaise with John and get his feedback, then consider who is up for it and what number of forumistas would be comfortable for the guys at Fracino to contend with on the day. After that we can get on with setting a date and all the other details necessary.

Hey, looks like we could have a UK Coffee Forum roadtrip


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Hehehe! I can just see a couple of hundred Coffeeforum members descending on Fracino armed to the teeth with fresh beans and tampers.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I'll call John on Monday







It's in the diary


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I'd shift virtually any arrangement that I've got for chance to have a look around the factory and talk to the manufacturers.

Birmingham's a bit of a drag to go there and back in a day from here - anyone up for an overnight to sample the coffee and culinary delights of Brum?


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Hopefully not hundreds of enthusiasts clamouring to visit and then rampaging around the factory in a caffeine fuelled frenzy, we would have to draw cyberstraws to select the chosen few LOL.


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## Filthy_rich85 (Jan 20, 2011)

I would love to hear your reviews after the visit, it looks like a very well built and thoughtfully designed machine. If the reviews are positive I think I will be saving my money to get 1. Would live to join the visit but with my inferior knowledge I will leave it to the professionals, like you said too many enthusiasts could be an interesting day


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Great news, can't wait to see how this goes.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I had a great chat with John - Sales Manager at Fracino - and he is very receptive to having a number of Coffee Forums UK members visit the factory for a tour of the assembly line and also a hands-on with some of their machines, including the new Fracino Piccino

Tue/Wed/Thu are the best days - between 0900 and 1500

A maximum of 10 people at once can be hosted

Therefore, if we can arrange between ourselves, a date that suits 'most' people we can get this signed off and in the diary

So, I'll leave it up to those who may wish to attend to suggest a date in this thread and then we can nail down some times and put them to John

March 15/16 are probably out due to the catering exhibitions in London but anytime after that could work

I look forward to seeing date suggestions


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

I would like to come and as it happens Thurs March 17th works well but I can be generally available.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Sounds great. As much as I'd love to I'll not be able to put my hat in the ring for this one. I live in Essex so would have to take a day off of work which is pretty difficult as I run my own company and work 7 days a week. Plus in all honesty I'm still very much a newbie so I'd rather someone with more experience and knowledge went.

I look forward to your reviews.

Please take lots of pictures for us illiterates


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Well, not surprisingly I certainly would like to be part of the visiting group. After the 15/16th of March is fine except for the week commencing 4th of April as the NHS gods are educating me on some new assessment tools that week. Also before we get into June, I tend to be on hillsides far, far away.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

While I'm not considered an expert I would be prepared to make the journey if a place is available. Thursday the 17th would be ok as would the following week cos my boss just happens to be away in the sunshine.

Ian


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm not working and could shift most other commitments to make any day that suits others.

My only concern is that I'm definitely NOT in the market for a new machine, and would not like to take up the place of anyone who is seriously considering buying a Fracino.

I'll book up accommodation as soon as a date is firmed up.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I would be very interested in attending, but I am in the same situation as vintagecigarman in that I am currently not looking for a new machine. However I would be happy to write up my observations.

I would prefer a Friday since I am more likely to get the day off work. I am not available on Feb 25th or Mar 11th or April 1st though.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Mondays and Fridays are not available at this stage - due to prior commitments


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Any more on this? I am spending today playing with my new Eureka Mignon Grinder (more on that later) and my trusty Krups ProCrema has sprung leak! So I will be looking for a new machine sooner than expected. My (long) shortlist is Fracino Piccino, Expobar Leva Dual Boiler, Izzo Alex Duetto and VBM Double (though very mixed reviews on this one). Lots of info on the Expobar and Alex out there but little on the Fracino.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Still very much up for this but I`m out of the running until April unfortunately and also will only be able to go on a Thursday, NHS targets, waiting times etc grumble grumble grumble and just plain busy with it all.

Don


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I'll keep the suggestions open until 8th March then we willl see what the majority have chosen and request


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

hashluck said:


> Any more on this? I am spending today playing with my new Eureka Mignon Grinder (more on that later) and my trusty Krups ProCrema has sprung leak! So I will be looking for a new machine sooner than expected. My (long) shortlist is Fracino Piccino, Expobar Leva Dual Boiler, Izzo Alex Duetto and VBM Double (though very mixed reviews on this one). Lots of info on the Expobar and Alex out there but little on the Fracino.


How are finding the Mignon?


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

MonkeyHarris said:


> How are finding the Mignon?


http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3260-Eureka-Mignon-First-Impressions


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Hahaha just saw that


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## Mazza (Aug 11, 2010)

I`ve been away for a while and I`ve just come across this thread. Did the visit go ahead ? This factory is only a few miles away from me and its probably a good job I didn't know about them sooner else I`d have been tempted to save up the extra instead of buying my Gaggia Classic!


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Not as yet as no one has yet PM'd with preferred dates

The offer from Fracino still stands so feel free to contact me with dates towards the end of May if people are keen


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Thursday the 17th March had been suggested but obviously not picked up on .

Ian


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I take it this never happened? I'm contemplating a Fracino machine but am struggling to find much detailed info/reviews of them.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

What would you like to know? I've had one for 2 months now. No problems with it, except that there is a channel of water coming from above the shower screen, trickling down the side. It doesn't seem to be preventing me from pulling a decent shot though. Ample steam power for milk etc.

One limitation, which I'm worried will bite me in the arse soon, is that there is no info around on how to descale, and I'm bit technical minded enough to just "have a go". I live in London, so the water is very hard and will almost certainly cause issues. If I want it rescaled, I'm going to have to have it shipped to birmingham and pay for the service.

Otherwise it's all good. Here's a shot from this morning:


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

Might be worth taking off the external casing if you can Monkey... the condenser return pipe wasn't properly connect in mine when I purchased it... all it needed was the tube replaced onto the reciprocal surface and the circlip remounted to hold it in place... saying that, there was a fair amount of water coming out the bottom of mine when this was happening, luckily no rusting or damage as had only used it a couple of times...

Descaling wise, I will treat mine as every other machine to be honest... backflush with suitable rinse and descaling by flushing the boiler(s) with more than an adequate supply of water... this is following someone's post on here (can't remember name) who serviced machines finding the majority of problems arose from inadequate flushing after using descaler / cleaner...

with regards to reviews AlIam, a couple of member have Fracino machines on here... although I do not have a Piccino I have the Cherub and am happy with mine.. yes there are better and worse machines, but money wise for what you get they are very good value... the only downside I have found is not having a removable nut on the E61 'copy' group to insert a temperature probe, although I can live without this....


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Crispy, your first paragraph just flew over my head at about 500mph







I'm REALLY not good even it comes to fixing and playing equity things like this. The water isn't from outside the grouphead, just trickling down the shower screen, so still ending up in the right place. If it breaks, I'll send it back for fixing under warranty









I'm curious as to how you descale the steam boiler. Obviously the brew boiler it's simpler, just flushing descale solution into it, leaving it, then flushing it through a lot.


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

I think on a dual boiler you can use the hot water tap, providing you have one... you would also need to flush through the steam wand but the hot water tap would allow a greater volume of water to be drained at a faster rate...

there is a fair amount of stufff about but came across this one... hope it helps...

http://www.thecoffeemachinelondon.co.uk/uploads/Descaling%20espresso%20Machines.pdf


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks guys. Those are the two Fracino machines I'm considering (Cherub & Piccino). They do seem to offer stellar value for money & living in the same city as the manufacturer is a major bonus. My Gaggia Titanium broke down repeatedly during its life and having to pay £50 postage on top of Gaggia's inflated repair costs and dealing with their godawful customer service inclines me to buy local. Fracino's customer service gets raved about.

I'm in contact with the sales manager at Fracino; hopefully he can guide me towards the machine more suited to my needs. Is the Cherub expensive to run? I like the idea of a big boiler but keeping all that water screeching hot sounds kind of wasteful/expensive unless the boiler's lagged.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Regarding bigger boiler vs smaller boiler - a larger one will usually (shape dependent) have a higher volume to surface area ratio. What this means is that it should hold temperature more efficiently. It will require more energy to heat up though. Coffee making put aside for a second (if that's possible!) - if you're planning to leave your machine on 24/7, a bigger boiler will likely be cheaper to run, but if you're just switching it on a couple of times a day, I'm sure a smaller boiler would be a lot cheaper.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I get that a larger volume to surface area ratio means something hold temperature more efficiently. That's why arctic animals tend to be large. But a larger surface area will still radiate more heat than a smaller one. i.e. the temperature of a small boiler will drop more quickly than that of a large boiler (everything else being equal) but it will have lost less energy despite the temperature having dropped more.

I anticipate the machine usually being on from around 6am til 5pm and off the rest of the time. I like the idea of a large boiler for making tea without waiting for a kettle to boil & for making half a dozen hot chocolates which I have to do fairly regularly when the kids' friends swarm round. Am I right in assuming domestic espresso machines are designed to be mostly left on? Or does being exposed to high temperatures and pressures age them making it preferable to leave them off? When I want a coffee, I want a coffee. I don't see myself ever thinking 'hmmm, I might like a coffee in half an hour, I'll go switch the machine on'.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

crispy said:


> I think on a dual boiler you can use the hot water tap, providing you have one... you would also need to flush through the steam wand but the hot water tap would allow a greater volume of water to be drained at a faster rate...
> 
> there is a fair amount of stufff about but came across this one... hope it helps...
> 
> http://www.thecoffeemachinelondon.co.uk/uploads/Descaling%20espresso%20Machines.pdf


Alas, I have no water tap







thanks for the link. I'll have a read later ok, but short on time right now.


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Monkey_Devil said:


> Crispy, your first paragraph just flew over my head at about 500mph
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the same thing with mine and the water trickling outside the shower screen. Maybe it is a 'feature'?


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

hashluck said:


> I have the same thing with mine and the water trickling outside the shower screen. Maybe it is a 'feature'?


hmm, that us curious. Maybe I'll email their maintenance and repairs in the morning and ask about why this is happening and whether there's an easy DIY fix. I haven't found that it impacts the shot, but I find it frustrating for cleaning because it can gush a bit.


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## heliuscc (Sep 11, 2011)

I have a fracino cherub. Customer service is excellent, they have sent me free gaskets and also the bit above the shower screen made of brass was badly machined on mine leading it to leak a touch while brewing. No problems since then, and the parts arrived next day! Has anyone sourced a bottomless or naked portafilter for their fraction, and if so where from?


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I bought the faema bottomless from happydonkey.co.uk and it fits the piccino fine









Might query about that badly machined bit because I have the same problem.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

heliuscc said:


> I have a fracino cherub. Customer service is excellent, they have sent me free gaskets and also the bit above the shower screen made of brass was badly machined on mine leading it to leak a touch while brewing. No problems since then, and the parts arrived next day! Has anyone sourced a bottomless or naked portafilter for their fraction, and if so where from?


Your first post, and you really helped me! Thank you!









I emailed john (sales) about the leaking problem and mentioned the "bit above the shower screen". I received a reply saying he was passing it to the relevant department. Next day, I receive a new lump if metal in the post







unscrew shower screen, let it all drop out, and this new part has a slight lip, which the older one didn't. Fitted the new part, screwed it all back in, took all of 2 minutes and it has fixed the problem







my shots are pouring more evenly now with better tiger striping. Used to get premature blonding on one side.

HASHLUCK! If your machine is in warranty, email them and explain the problem. If you want, say a guy called Tom North just made the same enquiry and that it was diagnosed correctly







wicked customer service!


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks, have emailed John


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