# Help me decide my first Espresso setup!: The Grinder & Machine



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Hi guys,

I have spent the last couple weeks going down the rabbit hole, watched half of YouTube, read forums, Reddit.. I like to do my research (a lot, before any kind of purchase..), so in a sense I feel like I'm past the newbie stage, but as a matter of fact I've never really owned anything other than a super-basic machine and used cheap supermarket ground coffee, so my practical experience is basically nil.

I don't just want to give you a budget. Not all grinders were created equal. Some are manual (and I would really like to avoid, but I can be convinced with the right reasoning). and some are electric. Some of the latter will be better/worse at specific things (eg changing the grind size can be more or less easy, doing single dosing can be challenging, etc). However, I hope that with all of the information below you can direct me to the right one!

Budget: I really would like to keep it within £600 for machine (but this thread will be all about the grinder) and grinder. Whether this means I should spend £150 or £300 on the grinder, well, it depends on many things (which type of grinder, which type of machine, used or new, etc). So I can't tell you how much of this budget will be allocated to the grinder. However, I've created this thread ahead of the one related to the machine, so that the grinder will take precedence and the machine will follow.

How I see coffee as a new hobby and passion, what would I like to do..

- I would like to make espresso (for sure), and if I feel like it, possibly espresso-based drinks (americano, cappuccino, latte, cortado, etc). I have very little interest for other types of coffee techniques (mostly because I'm Italian I guess), so for me a normal day would be 1 milky drink (white americano, or cappuccino/latte if I feel like getting frothy) in the morning, and 1 espresso mid-morning and/or after lunch. It's me and my girlfriend, but she doesn't drink espresso (yet!), only "longer" drinks.

- I want to learn new things to a certain extent. I am moderately geeky, to the point where I want to make sure the variables are ok (temperature, pressure, dose) but probably after the honeymoon phase, 30-50% of the time I'll just like to "wing it", without worrying whether my output was 32g or 36g and I poured the perfect shot (especially if it's going to be a milky drink).

- Along the same lines, I accept and welcome that there will be some effort required, but the level of faffing should not exceed a certain threshold. For example, I can be open to a manual grinder, but I would not pair it with a Flair (to be honest, I would not get the Flair at all as it seems like a huge faff on its own). Disclaimer: I respect all of those who see this as a ritual, but for me it would quickly become a chore.

- I am not handy *at all* and modding the grinder or machine would be daunting and challenging. And in general I can be bad with cleaning and maintenance (with my other passion, cycling, I have partly solved this by befriending the local bike shop and paying little for when I need a hand..).

- As mentioned above I would probably want to do espresso all the time. However, especially at the beginning I do think I'll want to try different beans at the same time, which means I'd probably be making the grind slightly finer or coarser according to how light or dark the roast is. And in general, it might mean that retention can be an issue and that I could want to do single dosing (but hell do I know, I'm a newbie!). If this makes things difficult (and if it's the main reason why you'll want to suggest a hand grinder) then I can probably force myself to try one type of beans at a time, which will make this point pretty moot, even though I'll be as excited as a child to try many things at once (and invariably ending up failing at dialling in any of the beans).

To sum it up you have here a moderately geeky, very curious but also lazy person, who wants to enjoy good espresso and take it from there, seeing whether the passion will flourish or if he'll be "happy enough" with a decent cup and not wanting more.

I am so afraid you'll suggest a hand grinder. So afraid. How can I block any future replies that contain the word "Comandante"? I feel like I need to. For my own good.


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

I've just picked up a Eureka Mignon Specialita and its superb. Coming from a Sage Grinder and an Iberital MC2 it's transformed my shots. Understand that would be a big chunk of the budget, however, pair with a used Gaggia Classic and it's a hell of a combination to start with


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## Stu Beck (May 31, 2020)

simplyme said:


> Eureka Mignon Specialita


 Seen a few of these come up in the for sale section recently for under £300...you could possibly get a used Classic or similar with the leftover budget? Might be a stretch with accessories, but it's not impossible 🤞

Or try a hand grinder and see how you get on? You won't lose much if you decide to sell on. I have a 1zpresso JX pro (about £150 direct from their website) and it's very capable and easy to use. Finer adjustment than the commandante too 😉

Once you have 5 or more posts you can access the for sale / wanted section 👌

Good luck with your search 👍


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Spend £400 on a niche. Or £300 on a decent mignon. Then spend the rest of your budget on a used la pav... Ultra low faff with lots of scope for faffing if your u want.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

simplyme said:


> I've just picked up a Eureka Mignon Specialita and its superb. Coming from a Sage Grinder and an Iberital MC2 it's transformed my shots. Understand that would be a big chunk of the budget, however, pair with a used Gaggia Classic and it's a hell of a combination to start with


 Thanks. A few questions if you don't mind. When you say "transformed your shots", could you elaborate on this?

On the Gaggia I have a few doubts but I'll discuss those when I'll open a thread on the machine. 



Stu Beck said:


> Seen a few of these come up in the for sale section recently for under £300...you could possibly get a used Classic or similar with the leftover budget? Might be a stretch with accessories, but it's not impossible 🤞
> 
> Or try a hand grinder and see how you get on? You won't lose much if you decide to sell on. I have a 1zpresso JX pro (about £150 direct from their website) and it's very capable and easy to use. Finer adjustment than the commandante too 😉
> 
> ...


 I am open with trying the hand grinder. In terms of what I look for in a grinder (which I outlined in my first post), would you say that the 1zpresso JX pro would give me something more/less than the Specialita (or comparable electric)? If yes, what? (Other than the faff of using my tiny arms)



Missy said:


> Spend £400 on a niche. Or £300 on a decent mignon. Then spend the rest of your budget on a used la pav... Ultra low faff with lots of scope for faffing if your u want.


 I thought the Niche was going for 499, or you meant a used one? Also, could you please elaborate on why it's low faff compared to other setups? I don't want to focus much on the La Pavoni as it's more of machine talk, even though I'm intrigued. Now it's all about the grinder.


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## Stu Beck (May 31, 2020)

Baffo said:


> would you say that the 1zpresso JX pro would give me something more/less than the Specialita (or comparable electric)? If yes, what? (Other than the faff of using my tiny arms)


 The hand grinder will have close to zero retention and is inherently designed for single dosing, but obvs more faff. Some folks rate the grind quality higher too, but I have not direct experience to comment on that...


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@Baffo Hi and welcome to the forum, i hope you enjoy your stay and have fun....did you copy and paste your wording from Office/Word/text-editor/other as for a second when i clicked onto this thread i thought i'd picked up the wrong glasses for a moment lol (tiny font caught me out) 😋


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> @Baffo Hi and welcome to the forum, i hope you enjoy your stay and have fun....did you copy and paste your wording from Office/Word/text-editor/other as for a second when i clicked onto this thread i thought i'd picked up the wrong glasses for a moment lol (tiny font caught me out) 😋


 Ha, yes! I had to write in Word. I didn't even notice - I'll edit it so that I don't make people blind in return for helping me. (edit: well, turns out I can't edit the post anymore.. So, blindness it is I'm afraid!)


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Stu Beck said:


> Seen a few of these come up in the for sale section recently for under £300...you could possibly get a used Classic or similar with the leftover budget? Might be a stretch with accessories, but it's not impossible
> Or try a hand grinder and see how you get on? You won't lose much if you decide to sell on. I have a 1zpresso JX pro (about £150 direct from their website) and it's very capable and easy to use. Finer adjustment than the commandante too
> Once you have 5 or more posts you can access the for sale / wanted section
> Good luck with your search


I'm in the same boat as the Op but have been looking at hand grinders and am leaning towards the jx pro over machine grinders such as the Mignons mentioned. Is buying direct from 1zpresso ok since brexit? Main concern is being hit by import duties on delivery and paying the same as Bella Barista etc


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

To me, it depends how you want to grind your coffee. If you want to measure beans each time, and single dose, then the Niche is the perfect answer. If you prefer the idea of pushing a button to get a roughly right dose in your portafilter, then a Mignon Specialita is the way to go.

Yes, you can single dose with any grinder, but it becomes complicated and annoying when the mechanism isn't designed around it.


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## LukeC (Jan 9, 2021)

Just to muddy the waters a bit further; I recently got the 1zpresso Jx Pro and can't stop banging on about how great it is! It's the only espresso capable grinder I've used (other than a brief try of an Aergrind hand grinder which I found to be a chore) but it's an absolute doddle to use, and if you ever decided to branch further into filter coffee for you or your partner you could easily use it for that as well.

So I can't say enough good things about it really: Easy to clean, easy to change between beans, takes up very little room, built beautifully and great grind quality....

Then again I'm making espresso with it on a Flair so maybe my advice is less relevant


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Thanks. A few questions if you don't mind. When you say "transformed your shots", could you elaborate on this?
> 
> On the Gaggia I have a few doubts but I'll discuss those when I'll open a thread on the machine.


 Consistency! Which is the key to it all. The Sage just never seemed to give the same result 2 grinds in a row, clumpy sometimes, etc.. The Mignon is consistent and grinds fine and any clumps literally just shake straight out.


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## Stu Beck (May 31, 2020)

Slim5hady said:


> Is buying direct from 1zpresso ok since brexit? Main concern is being hit by import duties on delivery


 It shouldn't have changed dramatically for a supplier outside of the EU, but I can't say with absolute certainty! I paid around £130 for mine, so even with 20% Vat on top of delivery fees it's still cheaper... exchange rates will play a part too. I paid £22 in duty and fees to FedEx. @BobbyAxelrod did you order that JXpro?

Could also look at the Feld 47 from Made by Knock, built in Scotland 👍


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I guess because you weigh the beans chuck them in get them out and can chop and change bags, they're small too. I don't have one btw, so it's not "from experience" Hand grinder is a little more effort but produces excellent results at a fraction of the price (I have an MBK aergrind) it's more faff to use, less faff to clean than my superjolly. Swings and roundabouts. Niche is the best of both of those. But yes you're right it's £500 not £400. 🤣


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

allikat said:


> To me, it depends how you want to grind your coffee. If you want to measure beans each time, and single dose, then the Niche is the perfect answer. If you prefer the idea of pushing a button to get a roughly right dose in your portafilter, then a Mignon Specialita is the way to go.
> 
> Yes, you can single dose with any grinder, but it becomes complicated and annoying when the mechanism isn't designed around it.


 Thanks allikat. It's a good question. I do feel like I can feel like measuring my input each time (whether it's beans on a zero retention grinder, or ground beans in the PF if the grinder has some retention). Would I need to weigh twice with the Niche (ie beans in + output in the pf)? That maybe would be a bit much for me, not that it's hard work, but definitely I don't think I could do it every time.

The way I see myself doing it is to go full geek when dialling in, and then once the dialling in is done and dusted and has gone into a trusty notebook or spreadsheet, I would still measure the inputs and make sure I'm as consistent as possible (eg tamping) but possibly I would not be bothering every time with measuring the grams in output (surely if everything else is kept more or less consistent in terms of temp, grind, dose, I will kinda know at what level in the cup I'm getting eg 32-34gr and I would still enjoy a decent cup? But maybe I'm a naive newbie!)



LukeC said:


> Just to muddy the waters a bit further; I recently got the 1zpresso Jx Pro and can't stop banging on about how great it is! It's the only espresso capable grinder I've used (other than a brief try of an Aergrind hand grinder which I found to be a chore) but it's an absolute doddle to use, and if you ever decided to branch further into filter coffee for you or your partner you could easily use it for that as well.
> 
> So I can't say enough good things about it really: Easy to clean, easy to change between beans, takes up very little room, built beautifully and great grind quality....
> 
> Then again I'm making espresso with it on a Flair so maybe my advice is less relevant


 Thanks Luke. I admire your patience and dedication. For me, the convoluted process of pre-heating (and cleaning all the components of!) the Flair was a deal breaker as soon as I saw YouTubers doing it. At least grinding can be sort of meditative, hence why I can be open to it!



Stu Beck said:


> It shouldn't have changed dramatically for a supplier outside of the EU, but I can't say with absolute certainty! I paid around £130 for mine, so even with 20% Vat on top of delivery fees it's still cheaper... exchange rates will play a part too. I paid £22 in duty and fees to FedEx. @BobbyAxelrod did you order that JXpro?
> 
> Could also look at the Feld 47 from Made by Knock, built in Scotland 👍


 Thanks! Is the Feld as capable as the JX Pro for espresso? I live in Glasgow so I'm keen to buy local provided that I get a good tool.

Also, I feel like I need to ask another question to the general audience. I don't have much experience of buying espresso in the UK, but whenever I do, even at very highly rated coffee shops that. feature in local guides, I am extremely disappointed, as it tastes like a "brown watery lemonade". As mentioned I am Italian and I love the espresso I get there.

1) is it me or is it the shops in the UK? Can I say that I like espresso? Who am I?

2) can I realistically expect to make coffee that is not as sour as those I can purchase in many coffee shops in the UK?


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Missy said:


> I guess because you weigh the beans chuck them in get them out and can chop and change bags, they're small too. I don't have one btw, so it's not "from experience" Hand grinder is a little more effort but produces excellent results at a fraction of the price (I have an MBK aergrind) it's more faff to use, less faff to clean than my superjolly. Swings and roundabouts. Niche is the best of both of those. But yes you're right it's £500 not £400. 🤣


 Thanks Missy. To be honest I'm sort of leaning towards a manual grinder (who would have thought?!) to start with, and then if and when I can't be asked, I will take the plunge and go for something like the Niche. It does seem to be a nice piece of kit (not to mention the aesthetics. The Mignons might be great but jeez if they're ugly.) but it's honestly an unjustifiable expense at this moment. The good thing is that I am privileged (well, hard working) enough to have disposable income, but definitely want to dip my toes gradually.


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## LukeC (Jan 9, 2021)

I've only had a few espressos from a cafe/restauraunt, just to try them, and found them all pretty disgusting. I only realised I liked espresso when I tried one out of my uncle's Sage bean to cup machine while housesitting. I can make very tasty shots with my Flair even as a complete beginner that are miles nicer than the few i've had in a shop.

I would love to try espresso somewhere like Italy to see what i've been missing!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

LukeC said:


> I've only had a few espressos from a cafe/restauraunt, just to try them, and found them all pretty disgusting. I only realised I liked espresso when I tried one out of my uncle's Sage bean to cup machine while housesitting. I can make very tasty shots with my Flair even as a complete beginner that are miles nicer than the few i've had in a shop.
> 
> I would love to try espresso somewhere like Italy to see what i've been missing!


 You know what the weird thing is Luke? In Italy (and I am from near Naples, pretty much the place where people are most obsessed with coffee) you don't ever see anybody measuring anything, not even when they train you as a barista (and to be frank this would be hardly possible, you're serving many more people at a time). That had me thinking that making espresso was an art; after two weeks of reading and watching YouTube, I realise this cannot be more misleading - there might be some hints of art in it, but it's far more science-y than I thought.

How do they manage in Italy to make perfectly delicious coffee, this I do not know. Darker, more forgiving roasts perhaps? Surely some expert gurus here will have been to Italy and could shed some light.


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## LukeC (Jan 9, 2021)

Baffo said:


> You know what the weird thing is Luke? In Italy (and I am from near Naples, pretty much the place where people are most obsessed with coffee) you don't ever see anybody measuring anything, not even when they train you as a barista (and to be frank this would be hardly possible, you're serving many more people at a time). That had me thinking that making espresso was an art; after two weeks of reading and watching YouTube, I realise this cannot be more misleading - there might be some hints of art in it, but it's far more science-y than I thought.
> 
> How do they manage in Italy to make perfectly delicious coffee, this I do not know. Darker, more forgiving roasts perhaps? Surely some expert gurus here will have been to Italy and could shed some light.


 I think like in many things, there are more than one ways to skin a cat! When I cook, it's all about weight and timers and precision but some of the best home cooks I know never weigh anything or use timers. In another context; I have a lot of tattoos and know quite a few artists (tattooists and traditional painters) and there seems to be similar groups, some using very precise and scientific methods with reference material and sketching things out in advance while some artists can just paint something from memory/imagination and nail it.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

To be honest it's as much art as science.

First off, the traditional Italian blend is quite dark roasted, which is a more forgiving roast to get right. This is also my preferred blend too.

The thing about a commercial operation is that they'll often use a doser based grinder that dumps its grounds into a doser. They'll set it up so two pulls on the doser's lever will dispense roughly 14g of coffee, the Italian standard for a double. The only time you measure coffee is when checking the settings on the doser. As someone who currently uses a doser grinder at home, this is NOT the way to go for a home setup, it's a pain in the neck to keep clean and very easily leads to stale coffee smells.

They will also often use espresso machines that have a single push button to do a shot... anything for speed. Now if you go to a place with a more traditional espresso machine, they'll eyeball it. The barista will know by sight when to stop the shot. These guys and gals are doing shot after shot every day, and will know their equipment backwards, and are often using the same blend of coffee for every shot. With such a consistent setup, it's easy to learn to do it the same every time.

Other places will use an on demand grinder with a push button to dispense their chosen dose. The Specialita I mentioned is a home sized on demand grinder with a timer. If you're somewhat lazy, you'll set up up so it produces roughly the right dose every time you push the go button. Sure, you will measure the dose now and again to check it's still about right, and adjust if needed.

The glory of the Niche is that if you preweigh your beans, you only really need to do weighing at that point, as what comes out will be within a 1/10th of a gram almost every time. The other thing is, that it comes with a dosing cup, so you tare on that, pop in your beans, check the weight, and then grind into the dosing cup again so you don't need to tare the scale again. As the cup is the same on, you can just pop it back on the scale to confirm the output.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Thanks all for your very valuable input. I think I'm 99% set on getting a Jx Pro (or a comparable manual grinder) and then, in due course, possibly upgrading to the Niche. I'll sleep on it and decide tomorrow. (and then it's time to create a thread about the machine!)

Now, what's the cheapest way to get my grubby little hands on a Jx Pro? (UK based)


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## Stu Beck (May 31, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Is the Feld as capable as the JX Pro for espresso?


 Yes, it's capable and plenty of forum members would recommend them. As with so much coffee gear right now demand is outstripping supply so you'll need to keep checking the website for stock updates - https://www.madebyknock.com/store/p48/feld47travel.html



Baffo said:


> Now, what's the cheapest way to get my grubby little hands on a Jx Pro? (UK based)


 Might be pre-owned ones out there, especially as niche deliveries drop...post a wanted ad?

Bella barista is the UK distributor for 1zpresso and is a trustworthy operation.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Stu Beck said:


> Yes, it's capable and plenty of forum members would recommend them. As with so much coffee gear right now demand is outstripping supply so you'll need to keep checking the website for stock updates - https://www.madebyknock.com/store/p48/feld47travel.html
> 
> Might be pre-owned ones out there, especially as niche deliveries drop...post a wanted ad?
> 
> Bella barista is the UK distributor for 1zpresso and is a trustworthy operation.


 Turns out I'm a baby who can't wait and upon some quick search I saw that ordering a JX Pro via their website is relatively quick delivery-wise, it was only ca. £125 pending customs, and it was in stock. Well, it's done now. I doubt I'd lose much money upon future resale.

Thanks to everybody for their help! And, stay tuned for the upcoming thread, "Help me decide my first Espresso setup! Part 2: The Machine". That one is NOT going to be as smooth as this one!


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## Enea (Jun 7, 2020)

I had the same dilemma and solved it by getting a Kinu M47 Phoenix and a 9barista. Only effort is grinding and that's done in 40s. All in all it's below £600!


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Baffo said:


> Turns out I'm a baby who can't wait and upon some quick search I saw that ordering a JX Pro via their website is relatively quick delivery-wise, it was only ca. £125 pending customs, and it was in stock. Well, it's done now. I doubt I'd lose much money upon future resale.
> 
> Thanks to everybody for their help! And, stay tuned for the upcoming thread, "Help me decide my first Espresso setup! Part 2: The Machine". That one is NOT going to be as smooth as this one!


 I know I'm late to the party but I think you've made a great choice with the grinder. Hand grinders give you so much more quality in the cup compared with similarly-priced electric grinders. Nice move.

Looking forward to hearing about your machine choice! So your budget now is around £350? Do you have a tamper already? I'd get something like this from forum sponsor Black Cat Espresso. They do great beans too.

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/tampers/products/copy-of-hario-skerton-plus-ceramic-hand-grinder

That link looks weird but should take you to the Motta 58mm tamper, which will fit 'standard' 58mm portafilters. Obviously if you get a machine with a different size basket you'll need a different size...

After that you'll have enough to get a nearly new Gaggia Classic. Worth keeping an eye on the for sale section in case anything comes up.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

_HH_ said:


> I know I'm late to the party but I think you've made a great choice with the grinder. Hand grinders give you so much more quality in the cup compared with similarly-priced electric grinders. Nice move.
> 
> Looking forward to hearing about your machine choice! So your budget now is around £350? Do you have a tamper already? I'd get something like this from forum sponsor Black Cat Espresso. They do great beans too.
> 
> ...


 Thanks man! It's great to hear. Thanks for the tamper suggestion - I really like the dark wood finish and it seems reasonably priced. I will definitely keep it in mind once I decide on the machine.

speaking of which, @DavecUK - now that the grinder is sorter, can/should I create another discussion about the machine or shall I continue here? If the latter is preferable, any chance I could have the title edited in "Help me decide my first Espresso setup! Part 2: The Machine" ? Thanks


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

In case you're carrying on here, I just checked over on Bella Barista for you and they have the Lelit Anna in stock for £349

EDIT - just realised this has a 57mm portafilter! It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but it will be more of a pain to buy tampers, extra baskets etc


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Baffo said:


> speaking of which, @DavecUK - now that the grinder is sorter, can/should I create another discussion about the machine or shall I continue here? If the latter is preferable, any chance I could have the title edited in "Help me decide my first Espresso setup! Part 2: The Machine" ? Thanks


 Continue here, I've changed the title...I shouldn't really our owner gets quite upset when his SEO is affected, but I'm cool with a few effects, simply because this thread is quite new.


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

I think this might be a helpful video to watch - it gives you a good overview of the Lelit Anna, as well as the Gaggia, together with some other machines you're likely to come across in your search


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

_HH_ said:


> In case you're carrying on here, I just checked over on Bella Barista for you and they have the Lelit Anna in stock for £349


 Thanks. Sell it to me though, I told you guys, I won't be easy! What does it have that would set it apart from say a Gaggia? 

I see that it has a boiler, which is a plus. I don't mind much about it being single boiler as I won't be frothing a lot. However, I presume that I would need to mod it (PID, OPV and all that kind of stuff..) or have somebody do it, in order for the machine to work consistently at acceptable temperature and pressure?

(on the plus side, it does look better than the Gaggia. It's no Bianca, but still..)

Edit: I did watch that JH video, I had forgotten it had the Lelit though. Worth a rewatch!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Ahem.

Random question. If I happen to grab a Gaggia with an EU plug, would it work fine with a normal EU to UK plug adapter? I'm assuming yes, but thought I'd ask. Only asking as I might browse other ebay sites and/or local second hand sale websites.


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## Aaronsheehan (Jan 25, 2021)

I'm just starting on the same journey & using this thread as Inspiration!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Aaronsheehan Welcome to the forum


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Aaronsheehan said:


> I'm just starting on the same journey & using this thread as Inspiration!


 You should only use it as inspiration if you're as lazy as me. Otherwise I'm not that good of a role model eh!


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## Aaronsheehan (Jan 25, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @Aaronsheehan Welcome to the forum


 Thanks!


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## Aaronsheehan (Jan 25, 2021)

Baffo said:


> You should only use it as inspiration if you're as lazy as me. Otherwise I'm not that good of a role model eh!


 Well, I think I might be more lazy... 2 days ago I nearly pushed buy on a sage express which I think is quite lazy seeing all the recommendations on here!


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Ahem.
> 
> Random question. If I happen to grab a Gaggia with an EU plug, would it work fine with a normal EU to UK plug adapter? I'm assuming yes, but thought I'd ask. Only asking as I might browse other ebay sites and/or local second hand sale websites.


Have you pulled the trigger yet..?! Keen to see where this ends..!

I went hand grinder route after a lot of deliberating versus machine (JX Pro from 1zpresso direct) and am now thinking of just importing a new Gaggia Classic Pro and coughing up on import duties. UK pricing is just too high.

Spent a lot of time watching reviews of all similar range models and machines and the cheap upgrades and easy maintenance seem to give it the edge for me at least. If it doesn't work out, should be able to sell on for similar value too.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Slim5hady said:


> Have you pulled the trigger yet..?! Keen to see where this ends..!
> 
> I went hand grinder route after a lot of deliberating versus machine (JX Pro from 1zpresso direct) and am now thinking of just importing a new Gaggia Classic Pro and coughing up on import duties. UK pricing is just too high.
> 
> Spent a lot of time watching reviews of all similar range models and machines and the cheap upgrades and easy maintenance seem to give it the edge for me at least. If it doesn't work out, should be able to sell on for similar value too.


 Well sort of! An Italian website has it for 176€ and available in 2-4 weeks. They don't ship abroad but luckily they allow for cash payment to the courier (it's a thing in Italy. Weird, I know) so I feel comfortable enough to order, I'll have a family member in Italy receive it, then inspect and possibly ship it here.

To be honest I have nearly zero confidence that this will turn out to be a successful move, but let's see..


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Well sort of! An Italian website has it for 176€ and available in 2-4 weeks. They don't ship abroad but luckily they allow for cash payment to the courier (it's a thing in Italy. Weird, I know) so I feel comfortable enough to order, I'll have a family member in Italy receive it, then inspect and possibly ship it here.
> To be honest I have nearly zero confidence that this will turn out to be a successful move, but let's see..


Definitely interesting...! If you've got local links then could be worth a punt although sounds very cheap if brand new...?!

I was more thinking EU Amazon sites or others that have received good reviews on this forum in terms of reliability. Always caveats of course with overseas purchase but could be viable.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Slim5hady said:


> Definitely interesting...! If you've got local links then could be worth a punt although sounds very cheap if brand new...?!
> 
> I was more thinking EU Amazon sites or others that have received good reviews on this forum in terms of reliability. Always caveats of course with overseas purchase but could be viable.


 Oh no the website has horrible reviews to be honest - I will be behaving as if I hadn't ordered it, cause I just don't see this happening.

To be honest I find it extremely annoying that today we have to pay 3-400 for a Gaggia that a few years ago would have gone for half that.. But there's really no decent alternative on the market at a similar price point. Not that I could see at least.


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Oh no the website has horrible reviews to be honest - I will be behaving as if I hadn't ordered it, cause I just don't see this happening.
> 
> To be honest I find it extremely annoying that today we have to pay 3-400 for a Gaggia that a few years ago would have gone for half that.. But there's really no decent alternative on the market at a similar price point. Not that I could see at least.


Yep, the price of everything coffee related has gone through the roof since first lockdown in March. EU imports, even with import tax added, can still save £90-100 of UK pricing so I think it's worth a punt.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Slim5hady said:


> Yep, the price of everything coffee related has gone through the roof since first lockdown in March. EU imports, even with import tax added, can still save £90-100 of UK pricing so I think it's worth a punt.


 You think? Where would you buy from? EU pricing doesn't seem that much lower. Theoretically you should be buying ex Vat from EU countries right now, as it will be applied also by the HMRC.

From what I read, buying a new Gaggia Pro and then having to mod it is not quite the best value for money. However I've struggled to identify a cheaper, durable machine that brews at 9ish bars and has a PID.


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> You think? Where would you buy from? EU pricing doesn't seem that much lower. Theoretically you should be buying ex Vat from EU countries right now, as it will be applied also by the HMRC.
> From what I read, buying a new Gaggia Pro and then having to mod it is not quite the best value for money. However I've struggled to identify a cheaper, durable machine that brews at 9ish bars and has a PID.


One of the EU Amazon sites probably. Coffee desk (Poland) also have some good pricing on the GCP.

Re duty, yes I mean some put an import tax allowance / deposit into the cost upfront c£50. Haven't pulled the trigger yet but it will prob be route I go. Not sure I will do the PID upgrade, OPV mod definitely.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Received the 1Zpresso JX Pro. Gosh, this think is an absolute TANK. I think I can cancel my gym membership, no more need for bicep curls, lifting this thing will be enough!


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Received the 1Zpresso JX Pro. Gosh, this think is an absolute TANK. I think I can cancel my gym membership, no more need for bicep curls, lifting this thing will be enough!


Magic. Mine is due today. Did you get hit with any additional charges/duties?

Remember to share any calibration / dialling in tips 

Has the GCP turned up yet?


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Slim5hady said:


> Magic. Mine is due today. Did you get hit with any additional charges/duties?
> 
> Remember to share any calibration / dialling in tips
> 
> Has the GCP turned up yet?


 Nope, total was some £125 or so, no charges or duties. Which is weird. The parcel was in transit via France, so if not import duties from HK, I would have expected some duties due to import from EU. Neither happened. Can't complain! I will keep local for most other expenses, but this was too large a saving to pass up on.

Unfortunately I won't be using it for a couple days - I want to grab some cheap beans from Lidl just to understand how the grinder works and getting some practice.

Re: the GCP, the dodgy one turned out to be dodgy (duh), so now I'm trying to decide whether I want to risk buying used, or buy new from Poland as you said, or buy new from UK. What is for sure is that I will want both PID and OPV, one post that did it for me was this one, unsure if you've seen it:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57593-thought-for-discussion/?do=embed&comment=812418&embedComment=812418&embedDo=findComment


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

Slim5hady said:


> Magic. Mine is due today. Did you get hit with any additional charges/duties?
> 
> Remember to share any calibration / dialling in tips
> 
> Has the GCP turned up yet?


 I think when I got mine the declared value was lower than the actual price paid! And therefore no additional duties and charges were applied.

Enjoy it's a wonderful grinder and so versatile


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Mark70 said:


> I think when I got mine the declared value was lower than the actual price paid! And therefore no additional duties and charges were applied.
> 
> Enjoy it's a wonderful grinder and so versatile


Arrived and no additional charge  Opened but not unpacked properly yet (tomorrow!). V pleased with that service to be fair. Great saving. Need to sort the machine next!


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Today ordered a set of Yagua scales and the 58mm tamper that was suggested by @_HH_, both items from sir David @BlackCatCoffee . In case you want these scales, David mentioned that these are the last ones for a while, so grab one!

Things I still need:

- a machine! @Slim5hady what's your progress? I'm still undecided.

- a cheap yet pretty piece of furniture to host my coffee station. I think the kitchen would be ok initially but it's going to be a bit crammed, so lobbying the missus into using a corner of the living room. I suppose I could get something used.

- a tamping mat / PF base. I've seen a few but unsure whether it's wise to look for some specific quirks. Anybody, suggestions?

- a knock box. I've seen a few for £20 but ideally I'd like to try and skimp on this one.. Suggestions?

- a milk jug. Same as above really, also considering that milk frothing is really not my priority, I will probably try to skimp on this. Is there something decent that would contain milk for 2 drinks, that doesn't cost silly pounds?

- a PF funnel. Here I'm unsure. It's highly likely that I'll end up with a GC / GCP, so 58mm PF yet unsure which baskets. Can I already confidently choose a funnel that "will work"? If so, which one would you suggest?

- am I forgetting something?


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Today ordered a set of Yagua scales and the 58mm tamper that was suggested by @_HH_, both items from sir David @BlackCatCoffee . In case you want these scales, David mentioned that these are the last ones for a while, so grab one!
> 
> Things I still need:
> - a machine! @Slim5hady what's your progress? I'm still undecided.


Well I pulled the trigger on a bambino plus late last night simply due to fact grinder arrived yesterday & Lakeland had it listed for £299 (via an ad on gumtree of all places) and I am too impatient!

I'll get flak for that I know but my (rash) thinking is this: play with the grinder and get that dialled nicely for both espresso and V60. At same time I'll keep a look out for either a GCP or Lelit and see what comes up and should be able to sell the sage easily when it's time to switch.

@BlackCatCoffee ;is waiting for his stock of the Bezzera Hobby which I do like the look of and it's still an option that interests me but it's looking c£499 I believe so for now that takes me over budget and while I'm always usually keen to invest in the best kit early on in my other interests, I need to spend more time in this world first to see where it leads me...

The JX Pro is absolutely superb by the way, simply love it and probably haven't got it dialled correctly yet, so will only get better. Highly recommend a v60 if you haven't got, super cheap £6 and you'll easily brew a decent cup without any faff.

Keep me posted on your progress


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Slim5hady said:


> Well I pulled the trigger on a bambino plus late last night simply due to fact grinder arrived yesterday & Lakeland had it listed for £299 (via an ad on gumtree of all places) and I am too impatient!
> 
> I'll get flak for that I know but my (rash) thinking is this: play with the grinder and get that dialled nicely for both espresso and V60. At same time I'll keep a look out for either a GCP or Lelit and see what comes up and should be able to sell the sage easily when it's time to switch.
> 
> ...


 Yes I've seen the Bezzera but I don't know if I want to pay the hefty price. It's in that weird price point between a Gaggia and a "buy once cry once" machine (£900-1200). What's drawing you to it?

I'm sure the Bambino will be just fine to begin and at £299 should be great, I've seen it retail for £399, so you won't really lose much (if any) money on it.

Have you changed your mind regarding the Polish website you thought of buying from?

Good to hear on the JX Pro, haven't used it yet. If I get some time I'll go to Lidl to grab some beans just to see how the grinder works (it might sound silly, but having never used such an evil machine, I want to see how the grind size changes by turning the little thingy, etc)


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## Slim5hady (Dec 20, 2020)

Baffo said:


> Yes I've seen the Bezzera but I don't know if I want to pay the hefty price. It's in that weird price point between a Gaggia and a "buy once cry once" machine (£900-1200). What's drawing you to it?
> I'm sure the Bambino will be just fine to begin and at £299 should be great, I've seen it retail for £399, so you won't really lose much (if any) money on it.
> Have you changed your mind regarding the Polish website you thought of buying from?
> Good to hear on the JX Pro, haven't used it yet. If I get some time I'll go to Lidl to grab some beans just to see how the grinder works (it might sound silly, but having never used such an evil machine, I want to see how the grind size changes by turning the little thingy, etc)


Bezzera: I liked the comparison review on 'whole latte love's' YouTube channel, it looks solid and performs well in the test. The fact it's newer and a little different also appeals but the price is a bit of a sticking point. And if I'm dropping £500 on a machine then per your point it's going to be hard not just to bridge the gap into next bracket of machine instead ...

Have not changed mind re importing, providing it's a reputable retailer and there is still definitely something oddly appealing about the GCP... nostalgia, this forum... the simplicity... dunno!

JX Pro, tweaking and tuning caveat aside, I just loved how easy it was to grind, I'm at 1.5 which according to the chart is in espresso range and it was super easy to grind. Impressed with build quality etc


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Slim5hady said:


> Bezzera: I liked the comparison review on 'whole latte love's' YouTube channel, it looks solid and performs well in the test. The fact it's newer and a little different also appeals but the price is a bit of a sticking point. And if I'm dropping £500 on a machine then per your point it's going to be hard not just to bridge the gap into next bracket of machine instead ...
> 
> Have not changed mind re importing, providing it's a reputable retailer and there is still definitely something oddly appealing about the GCP... nostalgia, this forum... the simplicity... dunno!
> 
> JX Pro, tweaking and tuning caveat aside, I just loved how easy it was to grind, I'm at 1.5 which according to the chart is in espresso range and it was super easy to grind. Impressed with build quality etc


 Regarding the GCP from an EU retailer, desist from doing so from that specific website. As suggested an hour ago on this forum, they will charge you local VAT and then you will have to pay VAT again to Her Majesty..

If there was some EU website charging ex vat, and delivering to UK at little to no shipping costs, then the Gaggia could be attractive. Can you find one haha


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## BobbyAxelrod (Jan 12, 2021)

Stu Beck said:


> It shouldn't have changed dramatically for a supplier outside of the EU, but I can't say with absolute certainty! I paid around £130 for mine, so even with 20% Vat on top of delivery fees it's still cheaper... exchange rates will play a part too. I paid £22 in duty and fees to FedEx. @BobbyAxelrod did you order that JXpro?
> 
> Could also look at the Feld 47 from Made by Knock, built in Scotland 👍


 Hey @Stu Beck, sorry for the late reply 😅

Yes I did order the JX pro, thanks to the kind recommendations I got on the forum 😊

Surprisingly, I was not asked to pay anything at delivery. I am not sure if I should expect to pay something after, or if I will receive some import or FedEx invoice later. 🤷‍♂️

I was planning to use the grinder for maybe 1-3 months, and make a post to share my impressions (even if I am a coffee n00b 😄). So far I can say that the grinding (@ the middle of the French press range) is really smooth, and I absolutely look forward to grinding the next dose 🤩


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

BobbyAxelrod said:


> Hey @Stu Beck, sorry for the late reply 😅
> 
> Yes I did order the JX pro, thanks to the kind recommendations I got on the forum 😊
> 
> ...


 I can echo your feelings. For now I'm grinding sort of fine but surely above espresso range (until I get a machine, my basic De Longhi will choke on basically anything finer than supermarket ground coffee) and it's very fast and effortless, I think it takes me less than 30 seconds (I haven't counted really).

If in a few months I'm still doing this, I see myself going for a Niche, but this is definitely a handy piece of kit!


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## jquebc (Feb 3, 2021)

Hi, I'm fascinated with this thread as I'm in exactly the same position. 
My Delonghi Scultura broke a few weeks back (yeh, I know - my entry into this world) so I'm missing the daily espressos and just using an Aeropress to tide me over.

I've thought of jumping at anything reasonably cheap but better - then I've had a chat with myself (it's lockdown after all) about what I'd really want - a Silvia and electric grinder. It's definitely beyond my budget so I'd have to save or look at other options. I get good coffee and there's no way I'm making the most of it.

I'd be very interested in a decent Gaggia Classic set up - is there no love for the Ascaso Dreams posted in another section of the forum?

Best to all. Reads as a lovely community here.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

jquebc said:


> Hi, I'm fascinated with this thread as I'm in exactly the same position.
> My Delonghi Scultura broke a few weeks back (yeh, I know - my entry into this world) so I'm missing the daily espressos and just using an Aeropress to tide me over.
> 
> I've thought of jumping at anything reasonably cheap but better - then I've had a chat with myself (it's lockdown after all) about what I'd really want - a Silvia and electric grinder. It's definitely beyond my budget so I'd have to save or look at other options. I get good coffee and there's no way I'm making the most of it.
> ...


 Hi there, I'm happy you found this discussion useful.

I can tell you that the Silvia did not seem to get much love (there's another discussion of mine in the "Grinders | Machines | Accessories" section, have a look, it's 7 pages!), not quite representing a decent enough upgrade to the Gaggia Classic considering the price gap.

It would be useful to detail what you want and what you need from a machine (eg what drinks you'll make, what do you consider a chore/faff and what you like in the brewing process, etc).

If you just make espresso, the single most important upgrade you can have is a PID to make sure the temperature is in the right range at all times. Any upgrades over that one are nice-to-have rather than a necessity for pulling great shots.

If you want to make milk drinks, there is usually some compromise to be made in terms of faffing required (with single boiler dual use machines, or SBDU for friends), or in terms of money to be paid (by going to dual boiler or heat exchange machines, DB and HX respectively, for friends. These start from around the £1k mark), or potentially reliability/repairability over time (by going to machines like the Sage Bambino or Sage Duo Temp).

Hopefully this is a good enough summary - I am not speaking based on my own experience, rather on the advice I've received on these pages.


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## Shorticus (Dec 10, 2020)

jquebc said:


> Hi, I'm fascinated with this thread as I'm in exactly the same position.
> My Delonghi Scultura broke a few weeks back (yeh, I know - my entry into this world) so I'm missing the daily espressos and just using an Aeropress to tide me over.
> I've thought of jumping at anything reasonably cheap but better - then I've had a chat with myself (it's lockdown after all) about what I'd really want - a Silvia and electric grinder. It's definitely beyond my budget so I'd have to save or look at other options. I get good coffee and there's no way I'm making the most of it.
> I'd be very interested in a decent Gaggia Classic set up - is there no love for the Ascaso Dreams posted in another section of the forum?
> Best to all. Reads as a lovely community here.


I think the Ascaso machines - the Dream and the Steel - are underrated. They've been around in various iterations for many years. As they appear to be less well known than the Gaggia or Silvia machines they don't attract as much interest second-hand. The styling can be a bit idiosyncratic, but then I think the Niche Zero is ugly, so what do I know!


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## jquebc (Feb 3, 2021)

Thanks for the replies. Bit of a shout out to the OP as I don't want to take over their thread - they just seemed very much where I am in terms of what I want from a machine now.

I'm usually a latte drinker but this is probably masking bad espressos. It'd be nice to make a decent espresso as a basic, milk frother next on the list - though I was a little put off with the Gaggia by its wand. Faff isn't much of an issue and I could get by with a single boiler.

I looked at the Bambinos but feel I'm heading down a road where I'm automating stuff and not getting the best out of the beans - would I get a grinder, or would I just go for a Barista Express. It's like a road of automation, if I'm expressing myself right, whereas I'd rather be on the more manual country path. It's been good lurking around this thread seeing people in a similar position.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@jquebc Well I am the OP haha, so you're very much ok to hijack this..

Re: the bean to cup machines, the general opinion is that the grinders are not consistent enough for espresso. If you're budget constrained, then a hand grinder (a good one) will be far better and still allow room for a good machine.

Bambinos come with a great host of both practical advantages but also limitations. There's a sticky thread in the Sage section which would probably be the most helpful. If you had to pick between a Bambino + grinder or a Barista Express, then you'd surely get better results with the former when coupled with a good grinder.

To be honest if you're a latte drinker, perhaps the advantages of the Bambino will outweigh its disadvantages, and the opposite for a Gaggia Classic which is perhaps better tailored for espresso (once properly modded) yet not so much for milk frothing.

As I've learned myself, here every single user will have their own point of view based on their preferences/needs/experience, and this may or may not align with what you want or need. Luckily, both machines are well covered on YT. I was linked this video about the Bambino just this morning, haven't watched it yet. You might find it useful.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

for the price you can buy a mignon manule/facile from £200ish id not consider a hand grinder, esp when you get lighter beans and there a harder to turn


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@jquebc since you were asking about Ascaso, I've received the following email today (I'd asked about their prices), it might help you decide.

Tbh had those been prices including Vat it would've been interesting to me as well, but they seem to be on the pricey side. Then again, I'm not familiar with them too much so I won't judge. And as you've seen from the fact that I'm the OP, I'm fairly new.

Dream zero all colours ( except Polished ) £500 + vat

Dream One all colours ( except polished ) £667.67 + vat

Dream PID all colours ( except polished ) £825.00 + vat

Prices include UK wiring and delivery mainland UK

For ascaso baby models there are two versions

Baby T Zero ( water tank only ) from £2458.33 + vat

Baby T Plus ( water tank or plumbed in option ) from £3041.67 + vat


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## ThePeginator (Dec 17, 2019)

2nd hand pre-2015 classic, get one with a PID if you can, you can fit one later if not. Why? Because they're great little machines, bulletproof, ubiquitous and you'll not lose any money if/when you sell it.

Paired with the best grinder you can afford. Grinder more important than machine at this point.


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