# Fiorenzato Bricoletta - used - what to look out for?



## brabzzz (Apr 14, 2017)

So...after a bottle of the 'ol vino i agreed to buy this used Bric on eBay, as per the details below.

By the seller's own admission, it's far from new - and though they claim to run a coffee business, those shots pouring out of it are cringe-worthy (hence i doubt they are forum members







!)

I'm not expecting it to be mint - far from it. Just functional and well used.

Is there anything i want to make sure of / check (as far as is possible remotely, before paying/sending) before pulling the trigger?

Can i expect anything to be proper f****d on a machine like 'this' (appearance, style of seller description')

It's rather like closing the door after the horse has bolted, but i'm curious as to what i've likely let myself in for. BIN accepted was £300.

The description was as follows:

Here we have our beautiful classic fiorenzato bricoletta, barista coffee machine, designed for professional quality home or low volume commercial use. It would also be Ideal for a hair dressers, gym or clothes shop...etc.

We have owned this machine for a number of years (it came to us through Chandlers restaurant when it closed) and it has not only served us well as a back up Machine for outside catering events, (we own a small commercial coffee company) but has also been used in our kitchen ( in two houses) and even on various camping trips! (13amp plug).

It has been serviced by Ben at Urban Espresso a couple of times over the years and is a fantastic pro-Sumer coffee machine. It is obviously a single group machine with multi directional steam wand and hot water spout, and comes with a double portafilter (handle!)... all of which can be seen working in the pictures. Over its life it has had a lot of use, but always been well looked after and despite a few marks and a weight added to the water pipe to keep it at the bottom of the tank, it is a very nice looking machine.

Being a classic machine, it's made in full stainless steel so weighs in at just over 20kg! This is no wannabe machine from a kitchen store and it uses a professional E61 grouphead! It has just (again) been checked over by Urban Espresso and has also had a new pressure switch fitted (at a cost of £60 alone) just to get it ready for sale.

Brand new it would cost you over £1000.

There's been a lot of interest in this machine so far and rather than answer questions individually, I'd like to cover some consistent questions.

1, It is a well used machine, having seen both light commercial and domestic use... it is far from 'new', but it has just been checked over by Urban Espresso, and is in very nice, fully working order.

2, I have no idea how old the machine is, I can only say that we have owned it for a number of years (3 ish) and it came to us already used so it could well be older.

3, This is not a plumbed in machine, it has an internal water tank and works off a 13amp plug so will go anywhere.

The dimensions are 12"w 16.5"d 16.5"h. The water tank holds around 1.5 litres.

Pics:


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## brabzzz (Apr 14, 2017)




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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What can you check at distance? I would have thought it was a tad on the high side price wise. Do you know what water it was run on or when it was last descaled? You could be buying a real bargain, or a pile of trouble. It looks pretty old to me. They are very vague with everything they say which makes me wonder just how truthful they are being. You really want to see the machine in the flesh and have a go before parting with any cash


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

I just bought this one and will update when I have tried it out.


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## brabzzz (Apr 14, 2017)

Chances are it's great kit and the bargain of the century. Normally works out that way for me!


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

I got this machine about a week ago. Looks really good. The portafilter handle was coming off when pulling a shot for more than 15 seconds so checked with the seller as to when gasket was last changed and it turns out it was about 2 years ago! So will need to address this first.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

Changed the gasket on it but it is working its way out and forcing the portafilter off. Any ideas?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

did you use an 8mm or 8.5mm gasket?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

When you say it is forcing the PF off, at what pint is it locking in i.e. 6 o'clock pointing straight out from the M/ch or not locking in that far e.g. 7 o/c

If the latter it could be you have the wrong thickness seal / gasket as DFK said. Is it the correct seal for a E 61 head ? all seals are not the same.

Is the seal in the correct way up, inner chamfer upwards to fit lip on basket. Is PF blocked ??


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

It is an 8.5 one I got from Happy Donkey.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> When you say it is forcing the PF off, at what pint is it locking in i.e. 6 o'clock pointing straight out from the M/ch or not locking in that far e.g. 7 o/c
> 
> If the latter it could be you have the wrong thickness seal / gasket as DFK said. Is it the correct seal for a E 61 head ? all seals are not the same.
> 
> Is the seal in the correct way up, inner chamfer upwards to fit lip on basket. Is PF blocked ??


It is more like 7 o'clock. It is the correct way up with the writing facing upwards. I tried 2 portafilters and both of them came off so don't think it's the portafilter.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

if its had a bit of a battering from someone who thinks that putting a portafilter in place requires Popeye muscles and half a can of organic spinach then I wonder if there is wear to the grouphead lugs/ portifilter lugs ? - not a massive issue but buying an 8 and 8.5 cafelat silicon seal to try may provide a better fit - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-parts/coffee-machine-parts/e61-group-head.html


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

As above the the silicone seals are softer but also check the thickness of the one you have 8 or 8.5 mm. ??

Are the P/F's originals ? forum members have had problems with "pattern part P/F's " where the lugs are different lengths and more importantly different angles, try a visual check to see if the tapers / angles look the same on the P/F and in the E61 head.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Remove the seal and basket and check that there is not a paper washer stuck up inside the housing, these are used sometimes to pick down the seal.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> if its had a bit of a battering from someone who thinks that putting a portafilter in place requires Popeye muscles and half a can of organic spinach then I wonder if there is wear to the grouphead lugs/ portifilter lugs ? - not a massive issue but buying an 8 and 8.5 cafelat silicon seal to try may provide a better fit - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-parts/coffee-machine-parts/e61-group-head.html


Ok, will check it out when I get Home and order the silicone ones to see if it helps.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Remove the seal and basket and check that there is not a paper washer stuck up inside the housing, these are used sometimes to pick down the seal.


Will do.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> As above the the silicone seals are softer but also check the thickness of the one you have 8 or 8.5 mm. ??
> 
> Are the P/F's originals ? forum members have had problems with "pattern part P/F's " where the lugs are different lengths and more importantly different angles, try a visual check to see if the tapers / angles look the same on the P/F and in the E61 head.


Will take a look at lugs to see if ok. Will probably try the silicone gasket to see if this resolves issue.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

The lugs on the portafilter do look slightly worn. I can see the brass on them. I have ordered the silicone seals from BB. Will try them when they arrive. Any suggestions as to whether I should return this machine or stick with it? I bought it on eBay just under a month ago so have about 2 days left if wish to do this.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Do you have time to try the silicone seal ? If you can do so if not I think I would return it as it does not seem an easily remedied problem.

How full is the coffee basket when you have tamped it ? Are you leaving headroom for expansion ? How fine is the grind ?

Too fine a grind and overfilling could cause problems.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Do you have time to try the silicone seal ? If you can do so if not I think I would return it as it does not seem an easily remedied problem.
> 
> How full is the coffee basket when you have tamped it ? Are you leaving headroom for expansion ? How fine is the grind ?
> 
> Too fine a grind and overfilling could cause problems.


I ordered the silicone seal today so should arrive tomorrow. It is a standard basket and I have tried it with 14-16 grams. I have ground quite fine but when use a coarser grind the coffee looks like dishwater with little or no crema and comes out in 10-15 seconds. May open dispute on eBay and if silicone solves it will keep. Otherwise tempted to return. The machine looks the part but don't want to have to spend a huge amount to have it repaired. On another note, I haven't gotten good microfoam yet with the steam wand. It is a 4 hole one, whereas previously I was using the Gaggia Classic with Rancilio steam wand and had no problems with that one. Perhaps just a learning curve or need a tip with 2 holes?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

If you were getting good micro foam with the Rancillio on the Classic then you are doing OK. If you are trying to foam small volumes of milk with a 4 hole tip that can be awkward / difficult. Anyone you know nearby that has a coffee machine (E 61) that you could borrow a P/F to try ?


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> If you were getting good micro foam with the Rancillio on the Classic then you are doing OK. If you are trying to foam small volumes of milk with a 4 hole tip that can be awkward / difficult. Anyone you know nearby that has a coffee machine (E 61) that you could borrow a P/F to try ?


Don't know anyone else with an E61 P/F. Will try the silicone gaskets first. Happy to get a bottomless P/F for it if this original one is the issue.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Do you have time to try the silicone seal ? If you can do so if not I think I would return it as it does not seem an easily remedied problem.
> 
> How full is the coffee basket when you have tamped it ? Are you leaving headroom for expansion ? How fine is the grind ?
> 
> Too fine a grind and overfilling could cause problems.


I have tried the 8mm silicone seal now and it improves things. The PF goes almost to the 6 o clock position and I have made 3-4 coffees so far. The PF handle has worked its way loose on a few of them but on the last shot I managed to get a 2 oz shot in about 25 seconds. I will do a bit more work on it to ensure it is stable. Out of curiousity does anyone know a good place to get this machine serviced in London and roughly what would it cost?


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## Stevie-heathie (Jun 21, 2017)

Wonder how you're getting on with your new machine a fortnight later?


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

Stevie-heathie said:


> Wonder how you're getting on with your new machine a fortnight later?


Unfortunately haven't pulled a good shot with it yet. Attempting to resolve it with seller. If this fails will likely see if a professional service will handle it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Gmartin said:


> Unfortunately haven't pulled a good shot with it yet. Attempting to resolve it with seller. If this fails will likely see if a professional service will handle it.


A professional service is done 2 ways. Seals only or full descale where they would normally remove the boiler and do it properly. With time limits imposed by ebay then I suspect it will be down to you unless the seller is willing to play ball. I suspect that you may have it serviced and still have the problems. Do you know anyone who can try a different pf in with no wear


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> A professional service is done 2 ways. Seals only or full descale where they would normally remove the boiler and do it properly. With time limits imposed by ebay then I suspect it will be down to you unless the seller is willing to play ball. I suspect that you may have it serviced and still have the problems. Do you know anyone who can try a different pf in with no wear


I have a gaggia standard pf and also a naked one for the gaggia. I have tried the standard one and it fits but at a different position than the 6 o clock. However it still worked its way off. I will try the naked one tomorrow to see if this handles. Don't know anyone with a different pf, but may buy one to see if resolves.


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## Gmartin (Apr 24, 2017)

I have used a naked PF for Gaggia classic on it and seems ok. Coffee does spray a bit but that's not necessarily the fault of the machine.


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