# Gaggia Evolution water not getting hot enough



## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

I've just won a Gaggia Evolution on ebay. I was really pleased, its the red version which should fit in perfectly with my kitchen and the machine has had very little use (a shot a week over 2/3 years) in a soft water area.

However, the vendor has just contacted me to say that they tested it before sending it to me and they think there's a problem with the water getting hot enough, even after 20mins.

They have already refunded my payment, but as this is the machine I really wanted, I've offered to pay the postage +£5 to take it off them on a spares/repairs basis.

Does this sound like something that can be fixed?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

May need a new thermal fuse, may be knackered. Hopefully someone who actually knows will be along shortly!


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Missy said:


> May need a new thermal fuse, may be knackered. Hopefully someone who actually knows will be along shortly!


Thanks for your response. Thermal fuse sounds quite easy to replace, but the threads I've read seem to suggest that if this was the problem, the water would not heat at all? Hopefully someone else can shed some more light on this.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

sorry duplicate post!


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Not a fuse, change the brewing thermostat and give it a good descale.

BR


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

L&R - That is a picture of the safety thermostat which cuts the power if the boiler overheats, so won't be the faulty part.

If it is just heating up a little bit then potential problems that come to mind are a failing element or a incorrectly set/faulty pressure stat.

The pressure stat cuts the power to the element once the boiler reaches a certain pressure, it has to reach boiling however to begin building this pressure so if the water is barely heating at all then this counts the pressure stat out.

So my guess is the element, if you know how to use a multimeter you can check that its getting the correct power. Elements are relatively easy to replace in most machines as they are typically just screwed into the boiler. You may need to buy a big spanner or plumbers grip. If you end up doing this then have a look in the boiler with a torch when the element is out. Of you see scale take the opportunity to soak the innards with descaler.

Edit: if testing power inside the machine use croc clips with the multimeter, clip it to the points you are testing and switch the machine on without going near the innards. You really don't want to get a mains jolt, they are very unpleasant and can kill if your unlucky.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Thanks, that also sounds like quite an easy fix. I'll get the machine delivered and give this a go!


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I've electrocuted myself on a boiler element, it was a bit of a shock (pardon the pun!) I guess the general consensus is yes buy it, get it home, get inside it and start troubleshooting


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

This is the safety thermostat 165 C, it has a reset button. For this purpose Gaggia has a thermal fuse.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Dylan said:


> L&R - That is a picture of the safety thermostat which cuts the power if the boiler overheats, so won't be the faulty part.
> 
> If it is just heating up a little bit then potential problems that come to mind are a failing element or a incorrectly set/faulty pressure stat.
> 
> ...


Is this the part I will need if its faulty:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GAGGIA-CLASSIC-BOILER-AND-HEATING-ELEMENT-120V-230V-EF0030-A/302276297161?epid=1804808974&hash=item46611241c9:g:JY4AAOSwl0tZpZpF

Can I get this cheaper from anywhere else?


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Or is it this:

https://www.gaggia-parts.co.uk/epages/es147467.sf/?Locale=en_GB&ObjectPath=/Shops/es147467/Products/11001002&ViewAction=ViewProductViaPortal&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIptr-wPvz2gIVdCjTCh1B1wMyEAYYASABEgKkE_D_BwE


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Couldn't be more descriptive than that


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

I thought it was more likely that it needs a new heating element rather than the brew thermostat?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

If the element is faulty, you won't get any heat from it. Dry heating elements are less likely to get faulty.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

L&R said:


> If the element is faulty, you won't get any heat from it. Dry heating elements are less likely to get faulty.


Sorry, not sure what you mean by "dry heating elements"? Just trying to work out what replacement parts I might need as the ones I linked to earlier are quite expensive.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I didn't realise the element was built into the boiler, best wait until you have it in hand before buying any parts. You are going to need a more accurate description of the fault before you can be sure what you need to replace, the sellers description could be inaccurate and sending you/us on a wild goose chase.

L&R - the brew thermostat typically is in line to the boiler element, it is normally closed and trips to normally open breaking the circuit - this would result in no heat whatsoever, if the sellers description is accurate it would not make sense for this to be the problem.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

nattyj said:


> Sorry, not sure what you mean by "dry heating elements"? Just trying to work out what replacement parts I might need as the ones I linked to earlier are quite expensive.


IIrc the evolution uses the same boiler as the classic (albeit with no 3 way solenoid) so parts should be relatively easy to get.

Mechanical thermostats do degrade over time cutting off at lower temps but without the machine infront of you it'll be difficult to dianose just from a 'doesn't heat up enough' comment. The espresso shop sells a competitively priced service kit for the classic. From the photos I've seen on this PID thread (another option though I'd take a MrShades PID over a more expensive auber), it look like the OPV comes off the stean valve so there may be a couple o-rings extra. They sell the thermostats seperately too.

If the elements turn out to be faulty you'll need a new boiler like you linked to in post 10. I wouldn't expect it to heat up at all if that was the case.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Thanks everyone for your advice so far, I really wouldn't have a clue where to start on my my own!

The machine should be with me later this week, I'll report back once its arrived.

Re degradation, if the vendor is being straight up, then it's only been used for 150 shots or so in a soft water area, so I wouldn't have though that there would be much wear & tear on the components. It's been in storage for a while though, so not sure if that would affect it in anyway?


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

The machine will be delivered today.

What do you recommend as the first course of action? Should I fill with water, turn on and see if it heats up, or should I do something else before this?

Would the fact that its been in storage for some time have any affect on the components?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Yes I would just turn it on and keep an eye on it, check if the water comes through easily when you press the brew switch.

Scale can build up when left in storage for a long time, if the water is infact soft where it came from then it may be fine. You will want to flush it all through once you get it working but no biggie.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Dylan said:


> Yes I would just turn it on and keep an eye on it, check if the water comes through easily when you press the brew switch.
> 
> Scale can build up when left in storage for a long time, if the water is infact soft where it came from then it may be fine. You will want to flush it all through once you get it working but no biggie.


Thanks. I've received the machine and had a little play with it.

The water certainly gets hot. The first time I fired it up I ran a couple of tanks through to clean it. It was hot, more than luke warm but not scolding hot, but maybe not high enough temperature for espresso. I think the steam button had been left on. When I did a second test, the water came out a lot hotter, close to boiling, there was a fair bit of steam coming from the machine.

I did a trial shot, it produced a drinkable espresso, as a good to my limited palate as my old Briel machine, but there a no crema whatsoever. This could be down to other factors, the "prefect crema" device was missing and also the tamper, so I had to do my best to level off the coffee. Not sure how much difference this would make? The milk frother seems to work ok.

Can you also confirm that the machine is ready for making coffee when the green light comes on? It only mentioned the green light in relation to the milk frother in the instructions.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Read my first post in this thread again. BR


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

L&R said:


> Read my first post in this thread again. BR


"Not a fuse, change the brewing thermostat and give it a good descale."

I'll give it a descale over the weekend.

You think there's a problem with the thermostat as well?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Provided water is not hot enough, yes. I would descale and change the 107C thermostat.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

L&R said:


> Provided water is not hot enough, yes. I would descale and change the 107C thermostat.


I'm not sure that there is a problem with water temp anymore. What temperature should it be coming out of the brewhead at? I'll see if I can get hold of a thermometer to test.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

It costs so little to change the thermostat, I'd do it as routine maintenance to be honest.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I was mistaken to say the termostat does not control temperature on the Classic - I had higher end machines in mind which use this part purely as a safety trip out and use a Pressurestat to control temperature. As far as I can see the Classic does indeed use the thermostat to control its brew temp.

The Classic never really puts out scalding water - when I had one a few years back I also worried it was too cold but it was just that the brew water cools immediately on leaving the group. As above it cant hurt too much (so long as you unplug the machine) to change the thermostat to be sure.

The Classic has a large temperature swing of 15 or so degC - learning how to 'temperature surf' can help you make coffee at a relatively consistent temperature. If you get a bit further down the espresso rabbit hole then you can eventually look in to PID control to keep the temperature within a degree or two.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

I'll try descaling first, see if that makes any difference, then look at changing the thermostat.

I'm concerned about the lack of crema. The instructions describe the the prefect crema device as "optional", so perhaps its not something that is usually included with this model? Should I expect at least some crema without it though?


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

The crema will depend on a whole host of things which may be independent of the temperature issue; bean type, age, etc etc. I'd focus on making sure you're getting the machine humming along nicely.

The perfect crema device (pressurised basket) is not something that most users here would routinely use or even consider using. Various reasons, many threads elsewhere. Yes, generally produces crema, but the result is perhaps fairly described as somewhat false.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

spoxehub said:


> The crema will depend on a whole host of things which may be independent of the temperature issue; bean type, age, etc etc. I'd focus on making sure you're getting the machine humming along nicely.
> 
> The perfect crema device (pressurised basket) is not something that most users here would routinely use or even consider using. Various reasons, many threads elsewhere. Yes, generally produces crema, but the result is perhaps fairly described as somewhat false.


Not ideal I know, but I'm using pre ground supermarket coffee. Grinder is the next thing to explore. However, my old Briel produces a crema with this coffee so I wouldn't put it down to that entirely.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

nattyj said:


> Not ideal I know, but I'm using pre ground supermarket coffee. Grinder is the next thing to explore. However, my old Briel produces a crema with this coffee so I wouldn't put it down to that entirely.


Noticed my original post said "would" where I meant "wouldn't" but you got the idea anyway! I blame lazy fingers on my keyboard.

Well, ideal or not, you got to work with what you have eh! Dark art, this coffee business, very dark art.....

Moreover, good on you for wanting to solve your machine problem instead of throw away and start again. Personally, I find buggering about with stuff like this good fun. Good luck!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

nattyj said:


> Not ideal I know, but I'm using pre ground supermarket coffee. Grinder is the next thing to explore. However, my old Briel produces a crema with this coffee so I wouldn't put it down to that entirely.


You wont get Crema from this.

In order of importance, getting a good espresso goes a little like:

1. Fresh Beans

2. Freshly ground

3. Ground in a good grinder

4. Technique/experience (good technique can overcome machine limitations (i.e. temp surfing))

5. basket/prep

6. Quality of espresso machine

(not an authoritative list, and open to much interpretation)

Crema indicates freshness but it not synonymous with taste - a bean like Monsoon Malibar produces gobs of crema but it doesn't make the coffee taste better - crema itself is actually quite bitter and unpleasant - many light roasts will produce very limited crema. However, complete lack of crema is usually linked to old/stale beans.

Pressuriesd baskets are designed to take stale supermarket coffee with no specific grind setting and force pressure into the coffee - this produces a crema but doesn't improve the flavour of the coffee. When you grind your own coffee the fineness of the grind and the freshness of the coffee (and a quick tamp) produce back pressure, the machine forces the coffee through at the bar pressure it is set to (commonly 9 bar, higher in cheaper machines because it markets well "13 bar espresso!") there is therefore no need for a 'pressurised' basket.

Basically, you wont be getting coffee anywhere near independent coffee shop level, or even chain coffee shop level until you.

1 - buy fresh beans

2 - start grinding them yourself

3 - buy some scales and weigh your coffee that goes in to the basket and that comes out of the machine - loads of threads and advise on this, its called 'extraction ratio'.

after this you can learn things like temp surfing and refine your technique.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Crema device, hole, disk, etc produces *foam*, not crema.

BR


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

L&R said:


> Crema device, hole, disk, etc produces *foam*, not crema.
> 
> BR


Im not sure there is any technical difference between them, but pressurised basket crema is more foamy.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Dylan said:


> You wont get Crema from this.
> 
> In order of importance, getting a good espresso goes a little like:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your advice. I'm not at the level where I want to make a hobby out of it, I don't actually drink coffee that often! I might get a grinder at a later date and experiment with beans, but hopefully a decent machine like this will still help me get the best out of shop brought ground coffee? What I've made so far is certainly a lot better than a cafetiere.

I was confused as to why my Briel machine produces a crema with the same shop bought ground coffee, but think this also has a pressurized basket?


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

Yes, I had a Briel machine and they do have pressurised baskets. I think the key thing is if you like the taste of the coffee your machine produces, then all is good!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PM me your address if you want a couple pressurised baskets I'm never gonna use. You'll need to get a 'perfect crema' device (the little rubber widget that sits in the portafilter) as I never got one with the machine!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Take a look at some online roasters like Rave - their coffee isn't much more expensive than the supermarket and they will grind it for you and it will be much fresher.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> PM me your address if you want a couple pressurised baskets I'm never gonna use. You'll need to get a 'perfect crema' device (the little rubber widget that sits in the portafilter) as I never got one with the machine!


Thanks very much! I'll PM my address, let me know how much postage will be.


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## nattyj (Apr 15, 2017)

Dylan said:


> Take a look at some online roasters like Rave - their coffee isn't much more expensive than the supermarket and they will grind it for you and it will be much fresher.


How long will beans keep in prime condition? Will grinding my own beans give them a longer shelf life?

I think the problem with using fresh coffee for me is that I only have 2/3 cups a week, there will always be wastage if I only use them at optimum freshness.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

nattyj said:


> How long will beans keep in prime condition? Will grinding my own beans give them a longer shelf life?
> 
> I think the problem with using fresh coffee for me is that I only have 2/3 cups a week, there will always be wastage if I only use them at optimum freshness.


Others with more detailed knowledge will no doubt fill in the gaps, but so long as you know the roasted on date, expect 3-4 weeks out of your (whole) beans before you're not getting the best out of them. Grinding should only really be done immediately before making yer brew.

Noted re wasteage - I'm sure someone will suggest an effective solution.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

nattyj said:


> How long will beans keep in prime condition? Will grinding my own beans give them a longer shelf life?
> 
> I think the problem with using fresh coffee for me is that I only have 2/3 cups a week, there will always be wastage if I only use them at optimum freshness.


Yes, grinding your own beans will help immensely.

As per my little list earlier - fresh beans are your number one concern if you want a nice coffee. I only mentioned buying ground from Rave (or another roaster) as thats better than buying from the supermarket - supermarket beans are *months* from being fresh.

If you don't drink too much coffee then you will probably be fine with a hand grinder - but your still talking about £80-90 for a decent one (Made by Knock Aergrind(small) or Feldgrind(bigger but more solid)) - that kinda money would only get you a very basic second hand electric grinder or a not very good/not good enough new one.

You can also freeze beans, you can even pre portion them and then pop them in the freezer and grind from frozen - ideal for someone only drinking the odd cup.


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