# Flat Whites



## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

anyone make them at home and what results are you getting,looking for a home machine that can produce micro foam as good as Costa,anyone know of such a machine,guess budget is the cheapest machine that will produce the right result,I've done searches on this and never seem to come up with any suggestion,cheers I really need a machine fast as it's too expensive to buy at Costa more then the odd treat and it is also hit and miss whether they can be bothered to make good microfoam! more oftern than not I end up with a latta instead of the flat white I ordered.


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## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

When used correctly there are lots of machines which will create microfoam which is at least as good as Costa (although Costa tend to vary A LOT). Mostly it comes down to how many drinks you are wanting to create in a short space of time and how willing you are to fail whilst learning! I can produce very good microfoam on the Silvia (although I can't do Latte art to save my life) and most times I can create fairly nice microfoam on a stock Gaggia Classic. I know a lot of people here use Classics modified with the Silvia steam wand though.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

just the one drink at a time,so when you say fairly good micro foam on a Gaggia Classic is that along the lines of a good Costa? or is the Silvia better? I don't mind if I have to learn to get the correct microfoam as long as it's possible,I just dont want to spend the money on a home machine and still end up enjoying a Costa flat white more than I could produce myself,I undersand I would need a machine costing in the thousands to be able to product microfoam with no effort or skill.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

You will find with the smaller boiler, the gaggia's steam power will diminish faster the the silvia, not to say that you can't produce good microfoam on it, the Rancilio Silvia is a more expensive but(dare i say it, sorry gaggia fans!) much more capable and versatile from stock and has true commercial hardware.

The machine is only as good as the barista using it though and one can for sure produce sublime results from either machine.

Either the Rancilio or the Gaggia will definately be your best options and you won't be disappointed with either.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Don't forget though to weigh in the price of a decent grinder, which is just as important as the espresso machine.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

With that setup and some decent beans fresh from a good roastery, you will very quickly learn that you can produce coffee so many miles better than any Costa's. Word of warning though, you will never enjoy costa coffee or coffee from anywhere other than the very best coffee houses ever again! This world that you are stepping into will also become an obsession, a very exciting journey and hopefully like most of us on here, a lifelong passion..


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

cheers was looking for a straight answer and got one:good: yeah I understand the grinder is important,I have a peugeot hand grinder and whilst I'm not saying it's the best,I have found it produces better espresso/crema than when I've used pre ground coffee.Just glad tho I have a name of a machine I can now go out and buy to get flat whites on tap! cheers again.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Outlaw333 said:


> With that setup and some decent beans fresh from a good roastery, you will very quickly learn that you can produce coffee so many miles better than any Costa's. Word of warning though, you will never enjoy costa coffee or coffee from anywhere other than the very best coffee houses ever again! This world that you are stepping into will also become an obsession, a very exciting journey and hopefully like most of us on here, a lifelong passion..


yeah I realise the Costa thing might come across wrong,I have tasted good coffee before and know Costo is not the place to go for it but was just using them as a quality measure for their microfoam as I would be happy with that level of foam.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Oh don't worry, I wasn't judging atall, I'm very ashamed to say this but 4 years ago or so it was starbucks mocha that inspired me to buy my first espresso machine! It was then only about a month before I left the starbucks thing well behind and found myself in the glorious world of high quality coffee!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Sorry to say I don't know any home espresso machines that can make a flat white as bad as costa


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

MikeHag said:


> Sorry to say I don't know any home espresso machines that can make a flat white as bad as costa










really,you can't be saying the microfoam is bad though?

I'm getting really excited now if the Rancilio Silvia is as good as this thread is having me believe


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## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

It's a steep learning curve, but there is a lot of information out there to help you along. It is important to learn how the machines temperature works and you will find a routine that helps you to get the best from the machine. I don't have my list of 'helpful' links here, but they are mostly buried in threads on the forum anyway. There are tons of good videos on youtube as well. If you are considering going down the Silvia route then you should take a look at this: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?5495-Rancilio-Silvia-with-PID-for-sale (usual disclaimer - I know nothing about it) as it will stop you hankering after a PID upgrade!!

Do bear in mind that the one major downfall of the Silvia is the ability to run the boiler dry, so it is important to prime it properly each time and ensure that you refill once you have finished steaming. It's one of the potential problems when buying second-hand in that you don't necessarily know how it has been looked after. Having said that - I bought my Silvia second-hand and I've had no issues with it at all.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

snegger said:


> really,you can't be saying the microfoam is bad though?
> 
> I'm getting really excited now if the Rancilio Silvia is as good as this thread is having me believe


Depends on the barista. The machines are INCREDIBLY powerful, they really do have one heck of a kick behind the steam arms. Not so much as a La Marzocco FB80 (How I loved playing on that!) but it's still very impressive. Most people whack it on full straight away though, leading to it being a bit too bubbly.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

I use an FB80 at work, amazing machine. I always whack the power to full.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Yeah I had no issues with the FB80 on full, it has different tips to the CMA Marisa/Lisa machines. If I start off on full, it just ends up a mess. If I start off slow and increase it to full and plunge at 80-100f, it works best.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

I wouldn't of thought different tips or machines make a difference to results by turning the steam to full power.

I have used a few different machines, the FB80, Synesso Cyncra (Boy that has some kick!), Sanremo Roma and a Dalla Corte.

I was also trained to always turn the power on full.

Chris


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I always have it on full to roll the milk in, but when introducing air it just makes a bubbly mess with our machines, especially if you slip. They're 5 hole tips. But other machines (FB80, Francino 2 Group, Ponte Vecchio Lusso) I've had no troubles with it on full.

I'll see if I can work my technique with it on full on the Marisa.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

I would imagine with practice you should be able to do it in no time


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

cjbailey1 said:


> It's a steep learning curve, but there is a lot of information out there to help you along. It is important to learn how the machines temperature works and you will find a routine that helps you to get the best from the machine. I don't have my list of 'helpful' links here, but they are mostly buried in threads on the forum anyway. There are tons of good videos on youtube as well. If you are considering going down the Silvia route then you should take a look at this: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?5495-Rancilio-Silvia-with-PID-for-sale (usual disclaimer - I know nothing about it) as it will stop you hankering after a PID upgrade!!
> 
> cheers for that,I only have one or two coffees a day so don't mind if the machine needs a little TLC to produce good coffee/microfoam as long as it is capable of good results
> 
> Do bear in mind that the one major downfall of the Silvia is the ability to run the boiler dry, so it is important to prime it properly each time and ensure that you refill once you have finished steaming. It's one of the potential problems when buying second-hand in that you don't necessarily know how it has been looked after. Having said that - I bought my Silvia second-hand and I've had no issues with it at all.


cheers for that,I only have one or two coffees a day so don't mind if the machine needs a little TLC to produce good coffee/microfoam as long as it is capable of good results


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