# My first good shot



## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

This may seem like a daft title - well it's subjective at least. (I could equally have titled it - My first 'good' shot.) But I've been looking for a 'baseline' bean to start my journey with for a few months. Baseline - well I suppose I mean uncomplicated and tastes of 'coffee', rather than those more subtle flavours that my inexperienced palate is struggling to identify or describe at this stage in my journey. So, cutting to the chase, the bean is Coffee Compass: Hill & Valley. "The style of roast is fast and aggressive, which brings out a caramel and molasses quality &#8230;"

I've tried several beans so far, none of which I have any complaints about, and I'll probably return to them to re-experience them. But I've been searching for something simpler and closer to what I've been expecting based on high street espressos. I know we're all aspiring to better than this, but as a beginner I need something 'simple', for want of a better term, before I start experimenting with more complex flavours.

Anyway, after starting using it at day 6, it's now day 15 since roasting date. Over the last few days I've continued to get my best shots after several months experimenting. The numbers have been generally around: 16g in 36g out (i.e. aiming for approximately 1:2) in 34 - 40 seconds (including pre-infusion) with my Sage DTP and Mazzer Super Jolly. I then dilute this around 1:3 with hot water.

Interestingly (for me as a beginner), this bean has required a significantly coarser grind than my last bean, Foundry Finca - San Francisco (my first true light roast). Iniitially, using the same grind setting as the Finca, my Hill & Valley shot (i.e. not yet properly dialled in) took about 20 seconds to pre-infuse and around 2 minutes to finish! Is that generally true of darker roasts (i.e. coarser grind required)?

I would be interested to hear of other opinions on 'beginner' beans, and also anyone who likes Hill & Valley with suggestions for similar beans.


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

As a noob, this is something I've considered - is there's a bean that is more forgiving? I nearly ordered some Hill & Valley last week but went for Mahogany Roast Jampit Hit instead. I'm sure there's a lot to be said with sticking to one bean whilst learning, but it's so tempting to try different stuff - there's so much tempting sounding stuff out there. Interesting that the Hill & Valley may need a coarser grind - there's so much to learn about this bean business!


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Something like Raves Chatswood, or fudge? A blend is more likely to give you that high street feel. I'm guessing you mean chocolatey nutty and smooth?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

DavTee said:


> As a noob, this is something I've considered - is there's a bean that is more forgiving? I nearly ordered some Hill & Valley last week but went for Mahogany Roast Jampit Hit instead. I'm sure there's a lot to be said with sticking to one bean whilst learning, but it's so tempting to try different stuff - there's so much tempting sounding stuff out there. Interesting that the Hill & Valley may need a coarser grind - there's so much to learn about this bean business!


Coffee compass Brighton lanes is pretty forgiving and easy to extract well with.


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## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Good post, Banjoman, exactly where I am at the moment - honestly i haven't got a clue what most people are talking about in terms of taste here so I need a stable starting point too. I was advised by Reiss at Londinium to find a bean and stick to it, buy kilos to practice with and just refine taste and technique and I think that's great input much appreciated. The question is which bean? And does it matter?

Moved on to a Beanshot blend sampler the last couple of days and have been playing around with that and for the first time ever I took a mouthful this morning and finally understood what the term 'fruit' means in the context of a coffee







I got it, I really did


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

Thanks Rakesh, I'll give that a go when I next order











Rakesh said:


> Coffee compass Brighton lanes is pretty forgiving and easy to extract well with.


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Missy said:


> Something like Raves Chatswood, or fudge? A blend is more likely to give you that high street feel. I'm guessing you mean chocolatey nutty and smooth?


Yes I think you're right, particularly chocolatey! I've tried a few blends and a couple of single origin. I agree that blends feel more likely to deliver what I want at the moment. I've tried Chatswood and will try it again; not tried Fudge yet, as it's recommended for milky drinks and I'm more into my Americanos - though I know it can be tried without milk too.

My current success with Hill & Valley I think is partly due to dark roast quality of the bean, and it's all subjective of course and what taste you're looking for, and partly due to my skills at the moment, and that I'm just beginning to get it all together! I would add that for Sage DTP owners, my experience is that it's well worth spending a few minutes ensuring the water for the espresso shot is up to temperature. I now don't just rely on the machine's light indicating it's up to temperature, I also run a good cupful of hot water through the head and portafilter before running the shot.

And thank you to the other contributors to the thread too.


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## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Banjoman said:


> <snip>I would add that for Sage DTP owners, my experience is that it's well worth spending a few minutes ensuring the water for the espresso shot is up to temperature. I now don't just rely on the machine's light indicating it's up to temperature, I also run a good cupful of hot water through the head and portafilter before running the shot.
> 
> </snip>


I do this on the Sage DB too. Am exploring all the hidden options, I've bumped the water temp up to 94 just for a laugh and I'm about to up the steam temp too, not sure if you can do this on the DTP?


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Greydad said:


> I do this on the Sage DB too. Am exploring all the hidden options, I've bumped the water temp up to 94 just for a laugh and I'm about to up the steam temp too, not sure if you can do this on the DTP?


Unfortunately not, there's no temperature adjustment on the DTP, but it does produce a good shot without adjustment provided you ensure the brew temp is sufficient.


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## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Maybe I should stop tinkering and concentrate on tamp(er)ing


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

I get what your saying. Im a newbie myself and have joined the D&H sub. These are mainly light roasts I think and I just dont get it. A massive fruity, citrusy sour burst with maybe aftertastes of 'coffee' chocolate etc. But that kick in the teeth citrus sourness doesn't do it for me. Perhaps my palate at the moment is for the darker side. Adding milk helps, but then anything with milk added is passable fro me.

Anyway, back to subject, like you, I think I'll stick to one bean fro a while and will try a few suggestions here. I tried *Rave Mocha Java* a while back and that was coffee tasting and forgiving according to my spreadsheet notes ( I should write more!!) I liked *Unions revelation* as well, which I bought from a local supermarket as an emergency and was surprised at how good it was.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

MalcolmH said:


> I get what your saying. Im a newbie myself and have joined the D&H sub. These are mainly light roasts I think and I just dont get it. A massive fruity, citrusy sour burst with maybe aftertastes of 'coffee' chocolate etc. But that kick in the teeth citrus sourness doesn't do it for me. Perhaps my palate at the moment is for the darker side. .


May well be you prefer darker coffee, but... I find darker roasts more forgiving of a poor prep.

Fruity and citrus yes but sour no. Eg this month's dear green Burundi says grapefruit, and should be citrus, but not mouth puckering. Think grapefruit jelly sweets rather than a tin of...

If it's really sour then it's not right.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

MalcolmH said:


> I get what your saying. Im a newbie myself and have joined the D&H sub. These are mainly light roasts I think and I just dont get it. A massive fruity, citrusy sour burst with maybe aftertastes of 'coffee' chocolate etc. But that kick in the teeth citrus sourness doesn't do it for me. Perhaps my palate at the moment is for the darker side. Adding milk helps, but then anything with milk added is passable fro me.
> 
> Anyway, back to subject, like you, I think I'll stick to one bean fro a while and will try a few suggestions here. I tried *Rave Mocha Java* a while back and that was coffee tasting and forgiving according to my spreadsheet notes ( I should write more!!) I liked *Unions revelation* as well, which I bought from a local supermarket as an emergency and was surprised at how good it was.


I completely understand what your saying, I like both but there is a point when It crosses the line, try the mystery 8 from coffeecompass


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