# Turns out I’m pretty bad at making an espresso...



## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Hi,

So I've owned a Gaggia Cubika for about a month now and have given it a full strip down and service. The boiler was leaking at the o-ring due to the build up of scale being that bad!

So cut to the chase. I've got a 14g double basket (single wall). I get 30ml out in about 9 seconds... a fairly firm tamp and a very fine grind. Using a Baratza Virtuoso purchased from a kind forum member last week. Is my grind too fine? I'd have thought that would choke the machine but it doesn't seem to be struggling.

Im very new to this and my understanding is highly basic so please have patience with me.

Thanks,

Pete


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Should be clear that my hope here is to slow the extraction down to the more universally accepted 25-30 seconds... not sure where I'm going wrong.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The grind is too coarse.

I'm assuming your dose is weighed and beans have been properly stored.

If you can't grinder and aren't single dosing the only option really is to updose which you may or may not be able to do depending on density. You need to make sure you can lock the portafilter in without disturbing the puck.


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

I'm only relatively new to this but to increase the extraction time either grind finer or increase the dose. I usually use 18g to get 36 ish


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Thanks both. So the grind is pretty fine. The virtuoso is able to grind fine enough I think and I'm on setting 3. Can try the finest though. Coffee is roasted about 14 days ago and I'm single dosing and weighing in to portafilter as well. I may be disturbing the puck fitting it as you suggest. I do try to be gentle though. I can't see any channeling in the puck afterwards but could be around the edges. Will take onboard the advice and try the finest as I'd expect it to choke the machine if it were too fine.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

some coffees require a much finer grind than others...so using coffees that need a coarser grind may help e.g. Brazilians.

When tamping don't go over hard and make sure the edges are sealed. Hopefully these 2 videos will help a bit.


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> some coffees require a much finer grind than others...so using coffees that need a coarser grind may help e.g. Brazilians.
> 
> When tamping don't go over hard and make sure the edges are sealed. Hopefully these 2 videos will help a bit.


 Thanks for this. I'm very much a learn from observation kind of person so will check these out this evening.

Greatly appreciate the feedback from everyone. My machine isn't the best by a long shot I know but hope to be able to squeeze something reasonably tasty out of it!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Pete4eyes said:


> Thanks for this. I'm very much a learn from observation kind of person so will check these out this evening.
> 
> Greatly appreciate the feedback from everyone. My machine isn't the best by a long shot I know but hope to be able to squeeze something reasonably tasty out of it!


 Of course you can get something tasty, although the limitations of the equipment may mean medium to medium dark roasts and certain coffees work best with it. If/as you spend more, then you can start pushing the envelope with varietals, roast levels etc..but that's down the rabbit hole of cost and upgrades 😉


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> Of course you can get something tasty, although the limitations of the equipment may mean medium to medium dark roasts and certain coffees work best with it. If/as you spend more, then you can start pushing the envelope with varietals, roast levels etc..but that's down the rabbit hole of cost and upgrades 😉


 Thanks for confirmation there! Haha. I ended up watching the videos now, thanks for the links. I'm currently using a coffee from Ecuador so 'medium' from your video. Wondering if I'm grinding too fine with a small dose and it's lifting the puck slightly? Might try upping the dose and a slightly coarser grind. When I start the pump i don't get water through immediately but then it comes through pretty fast and from first drop it's about 9 seconds all in for a reasonable volume. So might keep experimenting to see how much coffee I can waste! I'm not disheartened at least... and I'm in no delusion that the espresso my equipment can produce will be limited. I'd like to improve what I can make with something like this before upgrading. The future may have a Gaggia Classic in it as a minor upgrade from the Cubika.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pete4eyes said:


> Should be clear that my hope here is to slow the extraction down to the more universally accepted 25-30 seconds... not sure where I'm going wrong.


 Coffee to stale , grind not fine enough, dose to small , possibly all 3 ...
We have all been there at the beginning


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Coffee to stale , grind not fine enough, dose to small , possibly all 3 ...
> We have all been there at the beginning


 So around the subject of dose too small, I'm using a 14g basket but I guess if shower screens are at slightly different heights there could be more or less headroom here, so perhaps I need to up the dose and see where I start making contact with the shower screen and back it off slightly? Trial and error may warrant some cheaper coffee being purchased...!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pete4eyes said:


> So around the subject of dose too small, I'm using a 14g basket but I guess if shower screens are at slightly different heights there could be more or less headroom here, so perhaps I need to up the dose and see where I start making contact with the shower screen and back it off slightly? Trial and error may warrant some cheaper coffee being purchased...!


 It is a stock basket that came with the machine , if so that's closer to 16 g .

dose coffee , tamp , stick 5 p in pf, lock in pf, does coin leave imprint , yes no .

Don't buy cheaper supermarket coffee , it's stale and will cause you pain and teach you little .

what is your current coffee , what's its roast date


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> It is a stock basket that came with the machine , if so that's closer to 16 g .
> 
> dose coffee , tamp , stick 5 p in pf, lock in pf, does coin leave imprint , yes no .
> 
> ...


 Thanks for this advice also! I nipped out and purchased some coffee from a local roastery (Mancoco). Brazil origin and 5 days since roasting so maybe just right? I used the finest grind and upped the dose to 17g in the 14g basket and over extracted a very very very slow shot... but this tells me I'm able to grind fine enough at least. I know it's not that simple but I'm breaking it down a little... So I changed my coffee, the grind and the dose... Logic didn't prevail in changing just one thing at a time but now I know I'm able to extract something with pressure I can begin to dial it in at least...

So I was definitely under-dosing and probably grinding too coarse. Will try with the previous coffee tomorrow morning to see what 14 day old coffee produces.

Note aswell that the Mancoco was a darker roast than the DarkArts coffee previously used.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Was the dark arts Ecuador "devil looks after his own"? I'm using a medium espresso grind for that but could easily updose a few grams and still lock the basket in just fine.

For cheap coffee get some coffee compass mystery or rave blends.


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Was the dark arts Ecuador "devil looks after his own"? I'm using a medium espresso grind for that but could easily updose a few grams and still lock the basket in just fine.
> 
> For cheap coffee get some coffee compass mystery or rave blends.


 It is indeed. I've been exclusively using their coffee for about 6 months now and am enjoying the variety but until a month ago was using mostly South American beans with an aeropress. Purchased the "devil looks after his own" towards the start of the month.

The Mancoco I just picked up was not far off half the price of dark arts so are what I'd call a cheaper coffee without going as far as a brick of coffee from Tesco...


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

Pete4eyes said:


> It is indeed. I've been exclusively using their coffee for about 6 months now and am enjoying the variety but until a month ago was using mostly South American beans with an aeropress. Purchased the "devil looks after his own" towards the start of the month.
> 
> The Mancoco I just picked up was not far off half the price of dark arts so are what I'd call a cheaper coffee without going as far as a brick of coffee from Tesco...


 Mancoco is excellent. Try their espresso blend it's virtually my go to coffee

i would leave it at least 7 to 10 days though if you want single origin currently enjoying their Guatemala Finca Rabanales


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## Pete4eyes (Oct 10, 2020)

Mark70 said:


> Mancoco is excellent. Try their espresso blend it's virtually my go to coffee
> 
> i would leave it at least 7 to 10 days though if you want single origin currently enjoying their Guatemala Finca Rabanales


 Yeah sorry I didn't mean they were not as good, just that they are cheaper. Have had them in the past and my local cooperative stocks them along with a roaster from Salford but the dates on those were September/August!

going to try the DarkArts again tomorrow but at a finer grind and upping the dose to around 16/17g.

Really appreciate the advice from everyone! It's been a warm welcome to the forum and to the world of Espresso. Although the wife may make me defund the bike habit if the coffee habit grows...


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