# Will Opening Void Warranty?



## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

Will the warranty be void on a Expobar Brewtus IV if I take the case off to see if I have a leak? I am a bit worried that as I took the casing off to take some photos I inadvertently voided the warranty.

I received the machine 2 weeks ago and used it a few times (weekends), and twice now I have noticed a little bit of water under the machine at the back.

After the first time, I emailed Crem and they said it could be leak or something else but they couldn't say anything more from the photo I sent them of under the machine. When it happened again I immediately took the case off and noticed that there was some water inside and drops forming on the pipes going in/out to one of the boilers.

*Photos - *


http://imgur.com/eYUSc


As this is my first prosumer machine I am not sure if this is normal or not...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Definitely NOT normal, looks like you have more than one leak. It need to go back to supplier for them to attend to the problems.

@Dave c uk ??


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

Thanks for the input! I reached out to the manufacturer (Crem) with the inside photos and I will be waiting for them to see what they come back with.

I also sent out to the distributor/seller the first photo when it first happened before I opened it up, who promptly informed me with "I think the drops water are from the vacuum valve and it's normal."

Hence my confusion and sanity check requirement...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I think you will find the warranty resides with the seller not the manufacturer.

See other posts Bought out warranty (on the forum)


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

To check out the anti-vac valve:

* Switch off machine & let it cool down.

* Remove lid & wipe down any water drops etc. visible

* With lid off, switch machine on & watch the anti-vac valve (and elsewhere) for water "leaks".

* If it's just the valve spluttering before closing, then that's OK. (This water can be contained by fitting a small plastic/rubber "cup" around the valve base, to catch the splutters. The boiler heat then evaporates the water in the cup.)


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

Some background:


I only use the machine in the weekend (Saturday & Sunday) for only 2 lattes in the morning and 2-3 espressos in the afternoon, after which it is turned off

For the second time, I noticed water under the machine on Sunday late afternoon - albeit this time was just a few drops
Machine was turned on all day from 8AM until 5PM

Steam boiler was turned on between 8AM and 1PM, after which I turned it off



I am not sure if the water is related to the steam boiler being turned off.

@espressotechno I shall try that ASAP and report back. Thanks!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> Definitely NOT normal, looks like you have more than one leak. It need to go back to supplier for them to attend to the problems.
> 
> @Dave c uk ??


I looked at the photos and unless you spilled water filling it or something it's not the vacuum breaker, far too much water and it looks to be leaking from a fitting/s etc... It will only get worse. You really don't want to be buggering around with harrd to reach fittings at the bottom of the machine (most likely) and joints done up with threadlocker. *Ask the retailer to take it back and fix it for you, any good retailer will not have a problem with that.*





*
*P.S. Unless you purchased it from Crem directly, they won't give a rats ass about your problems and will refer you back to the reseller. I'm just hoping you didn't use a well known box shifter or company not based in the UK.


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

Thank you very much for the input. For what is worth Crem international support have been great with offering advice and troubleshooting so I cannot fault them there. I asked the supplier to collect it and repair it. Fingers crossed!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I know it doesn't apply in this case but on the general issue of warranties and opening machines:

Bella Barista seem to be comfortable with telephone support as you open one of their machines to diagnose / fix. They still honour their warranty.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

foreigner said:


> Thank you very much for the input. For what is worth Crem international support have been great with offering advice and troubleshooting so I cannot fault them there. I asked the supplier to collect it and repair it. Fingers crossed!


Sure they will be great on the phone up to a point, but they will never fix it and their advice.. you got the best/correct advice from me, not them or the retailer..I did notice you didn't thank me for my advice though.

Crem have no responsibility for your machine, but I will give them this...there used to be a customer contact manager that was terrible (to retailers and customers alike) years ago and that person left (thank god), since then they have been improving..


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Sure they will be great on the phone up to a point, but they will never fix it and their advice.. you got the best/correct advice from me, not them or the retailer..*I did notice you didn't thank me for my advice though.*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


Was my generic "Thank you very much for the input" not good/specific enough for your liking?







Anyhow, thanks all for your advice.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Crem technical are fine. They respond better to a northern accent though(!)


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

It bears repeating: the course of action for *any* repair/replacement is to go to the retailer within the first six months. If bought in the UK they are duty bound (Consumer Rights Act 2015) to replace or refund within the first 30 days, and outside the first 30 (and within six months) there is a statutory obligation to either repair or replace at your option, and if that fails then they have to refund.

If outside the six month statutory period it doesn't mean that you have no recourse under statute, but at that point it will definitely be less contentious if you have a warranty to fall back on. I would still always go to the retailer: your contract is with them.


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## viveur (Oct 22, 2017)

Now I've actually experienced two "leaks", but those weren't from internal components. I hve one of the convertible tank/plumb-in models, which I was using in tank mode for a while, and eventually the drip-tray started leaking (the convertible model has a hole drilled in the bottom of the drip-tray, with a rubber plug in the hole - and that plug wasn't entirely effective, probably because I'd hit it too many times while cleaning the drip tray).

The other "leak" I've seen is from the hot-water wand: if I use it, then the wand will seemingly leak/expel some water the next time I heat up the machine - if I leave the wand sticking out to the side, I'll then see a puddle over my tamping mat... I rarely use the hot water wand, so I don't see this much. (I only use the wand for emptying the steam boiler of water actually, not to get hot water.) This puddle is still quite far forward, so it's also unlikely to be your issue.

Both of my leaks were pretty much external, unlike your internal one.


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

So I received the machine back and maybe is just me but it doesn't sound when first turned on and the pump is working.

I know that a vibration pump is loud and all compared to a rotary one, but surely I don't remember it being this bad?! When pulling a shot it sounds fine...










Is it also normal for the pressure adjustment valve to "move around" after a service - before (https://i.imgur.com/8dEMm3w.png) and after (https://i.imgur.com/CBAvn72.png)

...Though it could all just be me. I am just seeking second opinions before I go back to the supplier.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well they put a hole in the case, but it rarely if ever lines up with the expansion valve adjuster (so you can adjust it without removing the case). *Yes it's normal*, because they would have had to remove pipework and fittings under the machine to fix the problem, so more disassembly than you think was required. Just make sure the leak is fixed!

As for sound....they are made to a price and a little tinny, with less weight and damping to the machine and steel so it tends to make the vibe pump sound louder. Nothing wrong with it.


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

Hi @DavecUK thank you very much for the prompt reply and putting my mind at ease! My only experience so far with espresso machine has been with a Magimix L'Espresso & De'Longhi Dedica EC680 at home, then over the last 2 years a Vibiemme Mercury 2 at work so as you can imagine when moving to the prosumer market all of these things are new to me and not having a baseline for reference what is normal and what isn't, is difficult.

I do understand that the Crem do not have the best high quality finishing touches on their machines which is reflected in the price of course (compared to Rocket or Profitec etc.) but still, I am trying to understand some of the basics of what should be acceptable/normal/you get what you pay for kind of thing.

Thanks once again!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

foreigner said:


> I do understand that the Crem do not have the best high quality finishing touches on their machines which is reflected in the price of course (compared to Rocket or Profitec etc.) but still, I am trying to understand some of the basics of what should be acceptable/normal/you get what you pay for kind of thing.
> 
> Thanks once again!


Crem as you rightly say build the machine to a price, but you still have the dual boiler performance and stability at almost half the price of the top machines! This leaves you more money for a great grinder.


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## zeezaw (Nov 12, 2017)

Sounds normal until it starts stuttering about 35s into the video. Had you been running it for long periods before filming?

I believe these pumps need a minute of downtime after each minute of use. They may overheat if run for too long as they're not designed for that sort of duty cycle.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

zeezaw said:


> Sounds normal until it starts stuttering about 35s into the video. Had you been running it for long periods before filming?
> 
> I believe these pumps need a minute of downtime after each minute of use. They may overheat if run for too long as they're not designed for that sort of duty cycle.


I didn't listen that far in. IK reviewed the Vid again and yes not only does it sound a bit odd after 35s, notice the brew pressure gauge, seems to be no pressure and I'm assuming it's running against a blind filter?

Might well be a kinked or blocked inlet hose?


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## foreigner (Jan 22, 2018)

I sent this recording to the shop - 



 - (which is near the end) of the tank filling up the first time since getting back from them. I was told that as the machine was completely drained, the pump had to work extra hard to get water in the tanks as it had air in etc.

The video I posted in the previous post, that's after I filled the boiler, then emptied it, turned it back on and allowed it to fill up. Though it doesn't sound any weird when pulling shots or when the pump is running now that it has been filled. I guess that's the way it is!


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