# V60 or Kalita Wave - much difference?



## NickdeBug

Evening all

I am on a mission to improve the quality of my workplace beverage.

Recent job change has denied me the fun of having my old Classic to make coffee whenever, and the official offering is now in the form of a Kenco dispenser.

So basically I have drunk tea for the last 4 months!

Tried French press, but not keen on the muddy output which just seems to lack in any great complexity. I have to admit that I have been grinding at home (daily) and keeping in a Coffee Compass vacuum container, but planning to buy a hand grinder soon.

my question is, what is the simplest method, with minimal mess, to produce a tasty coffee at my desk. Limited by no electrical devices allowed and water is supplied by one of those constant on demand things. No idea of actual temp but can check.

So far looking at V60 straight into mug or Kalita Wave. Is there much to choose between the two?

Aeropress is out. Can't be bothered with the clean up. Filter and grounds straight into bin sounds good to me.

Any suggestions?


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## Neill

I find the Kalita more forgiving of sloppy technique and it's become my go to brewer. Main difference is the flat bottom. Keep the coffee bed flat and all the grains submerged. It partially control flow with having 3 small holes in the base. You can therefor grind a bit coarser that the v60. Works for me anyway.


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## Xpenno

I use Kalita (cup top, metal, 155 size)

I think it's a cleaner cup thank V60. It took me a while to get to grips with it but I enjoy the resulting beverages now. My only gripe is that the papers can be a PITA to work with (if anyone has any tips then I'm all ears).

I would say that with regards to clarity then you are looking at Chemex, Wave, v60 then French Press. Chemex being the cleanest.


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## Phil104

These lot went for the Kalita, although as they say it was subjective:

http://www.baltzersens.co.uk/pour-over-comparisons-v60-kalita-baltzersens-roast-coffee-research/


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## Neill

Xpenno said:


> I use Kalita (cup top, metal, 155 size)
> 
> I think it's a cleaner cup thank V60. It took me a while to get to grips with it but I enjoy the resulting beverages now. My only gripe is that the papers can be a PITA to work with (if anyone has any tips then I'm all ears).
> 
> I would say that with regards to clarity then you are looking at Chemex, Wave, v60 then French Press. Chemex being the cleanest.


Stick the filters inside a cup to keep them in a tighter fold. Then when you pull them out they don't unfold as much. When rinsing only pour straight on to the base and avoid the sides.


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## NickdeBug

Many thanks guys.

I've watched a few youtube videos for both methods. I have a decent set of brew scales, but is it possible to get away without using the gooseneck pourer?

I'm thinking I might see if I can get away with using a pre-warmed 500ml ss milk jug.

Trying to keep the paraphernalia to a minimum if possible.


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## GCGlasgow

Might be easier looking for a new job


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## johnealey

For an out of left field suggestion for minimal faff at desk, have you considered a clever dripper dispensing straight into a cup?

No issues of pouring kettles or anything else liable to promote the great unwashed ( or intant drinkers as they are referred to in this house) to brandish coffee snob comments.

Just a thought.

John


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## NickdeBug

Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind!


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## jeebsy

Sowden all the way for no faff at work


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## NickdeBug

johnealey said:


> For an out of left field suggestion for minimal faff at desk, have you considered a clever dripper dispensing straight into a cup?
> 
> No issues of pouring kettles or anything else liable to promote the great unwashed ( or intant drinkers as they are referred to in this house) to brandish coffee snob comments.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> John


Thanks John. I will look into it. Am I right in thinking that it is an imersion system rather than true pour over?

I'm working in Evesham at the moment. Any recommendations for decent coffee?


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## MWJB

Xpenno said:


> My only gripe is that the papers can be a PITA to work with (if anyone has any tips then I'm all ears).


I don't pre wet them, preheat the brewer then put in the dry paper & grounds.

@NickdeBug: Not a vote for the Aeropress, but I can't think of an easier brewer to clean up? Pop out the grinds & wipe it down. You can also use a cone & filter to clean up, or filter (Chemex, Filtropa papers in a cheapy cone), your French press (the simplest method). You shouldn't be getting a muddy output unfiltered though, hazy, with a little dust, that's all.


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## Xpenno

Neill said:


> Stick the filters inside a cup to keep them in a tighter fold. Then when you pull them out they don't unfold as much. When rinsing only pour straight on to the base and avoid the sides.


I do the last one but the keeping them in a cup I will certainly try, cheers


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## johnealey

Decent coffee in Evesham....hmmm. Not anything with any level of consistency or of a decent enough quality that, just by the very nature of subscribing to this forum, you would be impressed with. Tricky, couple of independants in town or to avoid the costabucks, halfway decent flat white served at the M&S food place out on the worcester rd.

+1 on the aeropress front as well, quick wipe and good to go again.

Where you working in Evesham or is it more campden way?

Immersion yes and slight hint of a pourover / filter. Can be used as a pourover by just popping it straight on the cup or for a bit of immersion, on its coaster, which stops the mechanism at the bottom pouring it all out, if that makes sense.

John


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## NickdeBug

Just off Cheltenham Road. Big agchem company. Would mention the name but walls have ears


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## johnealey

Know exactly where you mean. Top of the road my parents live on and walk the dog the other side of the small river at the bottom ( hampton side) when working from home.

There is a newish italian independant up Bridge street that yet to go into (left side as you go up slope) where costabucks on right that is actually owned by italians and reported by parents as being one of the better ones. "Flavours " right hand side of high street as you head towards the station just past the thai emerald does a passable flat white on a commercial rancilio / Mazzer combo with the added benefits of lots of differerent home made ice creams / food.

Wider afield the place scotford used to work at in Stratford pretty good ( not as good as when he was there, of course) and there is a halfway decent place in worcester out from the centre on the kidderminster road that does quality brewed V60 / chemex as well as espresso etc.

Very rarely drink coffee out these days unless someone on here raved about as get just plain disappointed, ending up drinking tea ( I probably drink more tea since started drinking coffee seriously, than I did when just had a french press and some Taylors!)

John


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## Geordie Boy

jeebsy said:


> Sowden all the way for no faff at work


Having tried all 3 methods at work I just use the Sowden now as it's the most faff free method to make coffee . Only thing is that you need to start the brewing an hour before you're going to have a drink. For a Kalita or V60 you'd still need something to pour the water into the top as it neither hold a full mug full


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## DoubleShot

Impress cup...about as simple as you can get, surely?

http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/uk/catalog/productdetail.jsp?id=5530240830001&parentid=SALE-KITCHEN-EU


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## urpert

I've just ordered an Espro Press with exactly this question in mind. It has the advantage of looking like a 'normal' cafetière so as to avoid unwelcome attention every time you get it out in the kitchen!


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## malling

If I had to brew coffee at work I would find something that weren't to demanding and required to much equipment.

I might prefer the coffee from Wave and V60 and just love the process involving brewing with them, but at work I would choose something more simple like the Aeropress, or one of the "Frenchpress" to go solutions.


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## chipbutty

As others have said the Kalita is more forgiving of technique than the V60. You could be original and get the NotNeutral Gino dripper which uses the same filters as the Kalita Wave. Though I wouldn't say either are that suitable for work but I suppose it depends on your work environment.

Something like the Impress as discussed here would be ideal.


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## MWJB

I've just set the daily Sowden brewing....


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## jeebsy

MWJB said:


> I've just set the daily Sowden brewing....


I put the first of the day on just after arriving at 9am - will be tucking in in about 15 minutes.


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## NickdeBug

Blimey.

I looks like I have been seriously underestimating how long these things take to brew. I have been given the little French press about 5 mins before crash dive.

Maybe I need a bit more patience, or is the Sowden considerably longer?


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## chipbutty

Those metal filters aren't very fine in a French Press forcing you to grind courser and brew longer. Nice thing about the Impress or something like an Espro Press is the filter is pretty fine allowing a finer grind and a three minute steep.

The Sowden looks nice. Very fine filter. Wouldn't mind one.



NickdeBug said:


> Blimey.
> 
> I looks like I have been seriously underestimating how long these things take to brew. I have been given the little French press about 5 mins before crash dive.
> 
> Maybe I need a bit more patience, or is the Sowden considerably longer?


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## jeebsy

NickdeBug said:


> Blimey.
> 
> I looks like I have been seriously underestimating how long these things take to brew. I have been given the little French press about 5 mins before crash dive.
> 
> Maybe I need a bit more patience, or is the Sowden considerably longer?


I think of it as foresight you need with the Sowden


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## MWJB

chipbutty said:


> Those metal filters aren't very fine in a French Press forcing you to grind courser and brew longer. Nice thing about the Impress or something like an Espro Press is the filter is pretty fine allowing a finer grind and a three minute steep.


You want as fine a grind as you can tolerate in an immersion, don't rely on the plunger mesh to do the filtering. The longer you steep, the more solids will sink out of the way.


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## fluffles

Xpenno said:


> I use Kalita (cup top, metal, 155 size)
> 
> I think it's a cleaner cup thank V60. It took me a while to get to grips with it but I enjoy the resulting beverages now. My only gripe is that the papers can be a PITA to work with (if anyone has any tips then I'm all ears).


I have similar issues with the filters. If I pre-wet them (even if I pour carefully onto the base avoiding the sides) I find the water soaks up the sides of the paper and the folds start to collapse. I don't bother rinsing anymore.


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## NickdeBug

Okay - such is the extent of my trust in the sage advice issued on this forum - I have just purchased a Sowden Softbrew!

Bought from somewhere called Home Institute for £35 delivered after a voucher deduction (at the expense of my SPAM box).

Looks the easiest method that I have seen (basically french press with much better filtration).

Jeebsy/MWJB - I would welcome any brewing advice from two experienced pros (how much coffee, how long to steep).

Still like the look of the pour over methods, but I will probably give these a try at home at some point to determine if worthwhile for workplace.

Thanks to all for your help.


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## jeebsy

What size brewer did you buy?


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## NickdeBug

A medium James - 0.7l I think


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## MWJB

I brew at 52-53g/l. Just coarse enough to negate excessive silt (still medium to fine grind). Pre-heat the brewer, drop in the filter, place on scales, fill to desired weight with water 20-30sec off boil. Gently but quickly fold in grinds to wet them, cover & steep until sweet & juicy (start off around 40min?).

Pour off the first 1/4 or 1/3 of a cup then decant into preheated cups.


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## NickdeBug

Perfect. Looking forward to giving it a try.


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## NickdeBug

Are you brewing then jeebsy?

Started at 9.30 this morning - will check progress at coffee break (10.15).

Definitely takes some forward planning for someone who's choice of espresso machine was based on the 10min start up time


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## jeebsy

Yep, got one on now. I'm a creature of habit so know what times I'll generally be after a cup - means having to wait isn't really an issue.


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## NickdeBug

Hmmmm, I turned the rad off in my office yesterday and it must be a bit colder today. Coffee best described as lukewarm after 45 mins. Still very tasty.


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## MWJB

Did you preheat brewer & cup? Sure, it won't be piping hot, but around 60C-ish? Good glugging temp


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## jeebsy

You want it a bit cooler anyway, tastes better


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## NickdeBug

MWJB said:


> Did you preheat brewer & cup? Sure, it won't be piping hot, but around 60C-ish? Good glugging temp


I did indeed. Doesn't help that the room thermostat is showing 15C.

maybe I will invest in a tea cosy


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## MWJB

NickdeBug said:


> I did indeed. Doesn't help that the room thermostat is showing 15C.
> 
> maybe I will invest in a tea cosy


Or try it a bit earlier, in 5 min increments, see where you get a balance between sweetness & hotness?


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## jeebsy

MWJB said:


> Or try it a bit earlier, in 5 min increments, see where you get a balance between sweetness & hotness?


Do you just spoon off the top when you're trying in this way? Or pour?


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## MWJB

jeebsy said:


> Do you just spoon off the top when you're trying in this way? Or pour?


I pour a little in a cup & swirl it to cool to my preferred temp (after pouring off & discarding the oily bit). I keep the lid on, so the pot doesn't keep cooling down every time I have a taste.


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## NickdeBug

Today's brew not as successful as hoped.

used 32g of coffee (same Foundry El Salvadorian), with water up to the line - approx 600ml. Medium grind, although my first attempt with Hario Slim and it looked like there was quite a range of particle sizes present.

Water from work Marco dispenser. Forced boil cycle during pot warming so brew temp was probably 30-45 secs off boil. Steeped for 45 mins.

Result was a bit thin on flavour and had a slight metallic aftertaste. No sweetness or richness at all.

I had bigged the Sowden up a bit at work and brewed some for a meeting with my boss. He thought that it was great and rushed off to order one for himself, but I was a bit disappointed.

I guess that I need to play around with grind and timings a bit. Harder to do when you are making a pot at a time when compared to espresso!

going to try some Rocko Mountain tomorrow which I love as espresso and flat white. If anyone has a recommended brew for this bean I am all ears


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## MWJB

You're an iron man if you're grinding 30g on a Hario slim, what sort of setting are you at?

Did you weigh the water?


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## NickdeBug

I weighed the water to the line the first time I used it (yesterday). To the line it was about 630g.

Not sure on how to tell setting on Hario. Like I said, this was the first use. I wound it in as fine as it would go and then went back about 4 clicks if that helps. It didn't take as long as I thought that it would, maybe 2.5 mins, so maybe it was a bit coarse.


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## MWJB

Was there much silt in the pot? Did you see many large chunks in the grind? Not sure how good the Hario will be at fine enough settings, before you start getting too many fines in the pot? Maybe err on the coarser side, to reduce fines & sieve out any big chunks?

4 clicks on my old Slim would have been very fine....would have taken a good 5 mins to grind.


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## NickdeBug

Not a huge amount of silt and yes to some gravelly bits. I will try and take a photo tomorrow when back in work and upload. It certainly wasn't fine. I had taken some in the previous day that I had ground at fine/medium at home. The output from Hario was definitely much coarser.

Yesterday when I washed out the pot (sans filter) the first fill looked distinctly coffee coloured. Today it looked more like water, so I guess far fewer fines making it through the filter.

Might take in some home ground and compare to Hario tomorrow. I'm assuming that coarse = longer steep time required


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## MWJB

NickdeBug said:


> I'm assuming that coarse = longer steep time required


Too coarse and you'll never get a decent extraction. Going fine isn't going to speed things up significantly, though you could updose & settle for a lower extraction? Still don't want to be super coarse though.


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## NickdeBug

Okay - here is a photo of grind size. Sorry, realised afterwards that I should have put something in the photo for comparison.

Left to right - Hario 4 clicks left from min (very uneven, with large chunks), Hario 2 clicks from left (like slight coarse salt, better distribution), Sage Pro setting 30 (fine sand, but not powdery).

I will try a brew with the latter in a minute to see how it goes. Hario doesn't seem to go that fine even at lowest setting.

View attachment 12733


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## MWJB

NickdeBug said:


> Okay - here is a photo of grind size. Sorry, realised afterwards that I should have put something in the photo for comparison.
> 
> Left to right - Hario 4 clicks left from min (very uneven, with large chunks), Hario 2 clicks from left (like slight coarse salt, better distribution), Sage Pro setting 30 (fine sand, but not powdery).
> 
> I will try a brew with the latter in a minute to see how it goes. Hario doesn't seem to go that fine even at lowest setting. From what you're posting it looks like the Hario might have an issue.


Farthest left is never going to work...might be worth taking out your Hario burrs and checking that the outer burr is seated so that it is tight against the grinder body with no visible play between the burrs at tightest setting? The burrs may move a bit together, that's normal.


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## NickdeBug

Found out the problem. I was being a bit too delicate with adjustment. Not wanting to force it I hadn't realised that there were two more clicks from what I thought was the finest point. Consequently 4 was actually 6.

Finest setting looks pretty powdery now.

Thanks for your help


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## jeebsy

You can shim the outer burr if necessary


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