# Updosing light roast beans



## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm currently on a bag of Rave Guatemala La Florida. It's quite a light roast judging by the colour of the beans and how hard it is to grind in my hausgrind. My normal espresso brew of 15g -> 28g was resulting in a shot with a really light/blond crema that looked all wrong (didn't taste all that bad though).

I've gradually increased the dose and have now reached 19g -> 35g. The crema colour has gradually got darker and more like I'm used to seeing. The taste has also improved.

Why is this happening? I've often heard people say that light roast beans need a higher dose, but the brew ratio isn't that different. Can anyone explain why this is the case?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You used the same basket for the 15g and 19g doses, right?

The 19g dose will offer greater resistance


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Also what is the shot time for the two shots...


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

The reason why your usual brew ratio may not be working for these beans is due to them being of a lighter roast.

Lighter roasts are less soluble than medium and darker roasts and often require a greater brew yield to reach their optimum extraction,

you could extract more by increasing temperature, grinding finer, or increasing brew ratio.

I had some Ethiopian Yirgacheffe G1 Dumerso from Rave a while back and my usual brew ratio at the time was 50% (18g >36g), the shots were sour and yucky so I e-mailed Rave enquiring a suggested brew recipe -

Brooke got back to me and suggested 18g > 40g, upon trying it out at the same level of grind as before the sweetness opened up and the tasting notes were spot on!

Try 15g >33-35 and see how it tastes, I'd also be inclined to grind your beans on the Fiorenzato instead of the Hausgrind for the sake of tighter particle distribution (83mm flats vs 38mm conic), which should allow you to push the extraction further without it being muddy or bitter.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Beanosaurus said:


> The reason why your usual brew ratio may not be working for these beans is due to them being of a lighter roast.
> 
> Lighter roasts are less soluble than medium and darker roasts and often require a greater brew yield to reach their optimum extraction,
> 
> ...


Sounds right. While dialling in the CC lsol I tried 16>40 after going 18>40. Actually came out 16>44 iirc and was lovely.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> You used the same basket for the 15g and 19g doses, right?
> 
> The 19g dose will offer greater resistance


No, I used different sized IMS baskets. Think I tried 15 -> 16.5g in one basket then moved on to 17g -> 19g in the larger basket.



Mrboots2u said:


> Also what is the shot time for the two shots...


About the same, I've always been trying to keep between 25 and 30 seconds.



Beanosaurus said:


> Try 15g >33-35 and see how it tastes, I'd also be inclined to grind your beans on the Fiorenzato instead of the Hausgrind


Sorry, I did use the F5. But I have ground in the hausgrind for aeropress brews.

The lower dose shots were also quite thin, so I would think that increasing the amount of water would only make this worse?


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

More water = more extraction of soluble material. - This should be perceivable as a denser mouthfeel.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

fluffles said:


> About the same, I've always been trying to keep between 25 and 30 seconds.
> 
> The lower dose shots were also quite thin, so I would think that increasing the amount of water would only make this worse?


Try grinding finer & not worrying if the shot goes over 30s.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Beanosaurus said:


> More water = more extraction of soluble material. - This should be perceivable as a denser mouthfeel.


That doesn't seem right? I pull my cup from under the stream when it hits my target amount. If I catch what comes out after with another cup it is very watery and thin (with any bean, not just this one).


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Try grinding finer & not worrying if the shot goes over 30s.


Thanks that's worth a try. I've never tried long shot times with any bean (haven't needed to), but in this case it could be worth a go.


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

fluffles said:


> That doesn't seem right? I pull my cup from under the stream when it hits my target amount. If I catch what comes out after with another cup it is very watery and thin (with any bean, not just this one).


Well as MWJB says above, you can try grinding finer if its a gloopier shot you're after and aim for a smaller beverage yield to achieve a relative extraction.

At the given grind setting you've used things may seem "watery and thin" because of the overall beverage mass, so instead of pulling for example 15g >35g in 35s, try grinding finer and aim for 15g > 30g in 35s.

Hope this helps.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

fluffles said:


> That doesn't seem right? I pull my cup from under the stream when it hits my target amount. If I catch what comes out after with another cup it is very watery and thin (with any bean, not just this one).


A shot starts off very concentrated, easy to extract stuff comes out in spades...as the shout runs the concentration drops rapidly and the last drips may be bland & watery...this is common to pretty much all coffees, if you kill the shot whilst you are still getting thick, syrupy output, then your shot will be under-extracted. However, you might want to sacrifice a higher extraction in favour of mouthfeel (I prefer to aim for sweeteness over gloopiness, but it's a choice/preference), if this mouthfeel is important to you, also try pulling shorter, this can bump up strength & mouthfeel, at the expense of complexity, but doesn't always taste 'bad'.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

MWJB said:


> A shot starts off very concentrated, easy to extract stuff comes out in spades...as the shout runs the concentration drops rapidly and the last drips may be bland & watery...this is common to pretty much all coffees, if you kill the shot whilst you are still getting thick, syrupy output, then your shot will be under-extracted. However, you might want to sacrifice a higher extraction in favour of mouthfeel (I prefer to aim for sweeteness over gloopiness, but it's a choice/preference), if this mouthfeel is important to you, also try pulling shorter, this can bump up strength & mouthfeel, at the expense of complexity, but doesn't always taste 'bad'.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Vvvvvvvvvvvdvvwvvvvvvvvvdvvvvvvddddvvxddd svv vvvvw sw 2vvvv(vv(z s. as. xx. X x svvw_svvwwz_svvvsvvsvv( sxxccvcvzsxw xxx.


Is that the name of the new Aphex track?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I've no clue what's happened there


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

....and a consonant please Rachel...


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