# Rancilio Silvia



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

Hi after many years of cappuccino making on Gaggia 'Coffee Deluxe' machines, I admitted that the results were not very good. I bought a new Gaggia 'Classic' with the solenoid valve and added the Rancilio wand together with a proper coffee filter, but this was much the same. Milk foaming was still very hit and miss. Fortunately it developed a fault and I was able to return it. A bit of extra cash for the Rancilio machine and wow! great foam first time. I have not perfected it yet as my foam still tastes a bit chalky and wonder if I should I use semi-skimmed milk?

I am still a bit confused about the machine. I understand it is possible to burn out the element if you don't keep the boiler primed. This seems like a design fault in an otherwise wonderful machine which I am prepared to tolerate if I understand it a bit better. Can it only happen after exhausting the boiler from multiple steamings? and how much steaming would you have to do to reach the critical point? This morning I prepared one cup of cappuccino and then ran some hot water through the wand. After this, I tried to run some hot water through the group head to clean it, and nothing came out. I panicked thinking that I had done the bad thing, but it was ok once I ran out a bit more hot water through the wand.

I am also a bit confused about brewing temperature as it would appear from the videos I have watched that water is too hot when the light is on requiring temperature 'surfing'. Another design flaw? Also I was told by the vender always to brew first but many videos show it the other way round. This morning after I brewed, and then switched on the steam switch for the milk. The light stayed on and I didn't have to wait for the steam at all. It seemed to work ok. Also, it is reputed to take a long time to reach working temperature. although the light goes out fairly quickly after it is first switched on from cold.

There are a few questions in there but I am a bit confused (and delighted with the machine). Can any of you seasoned baristas out there help me as I know this is a great machine which requires a bit of knowledge for best results.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok here goes... illl try and answer a few as an ex silvia owner.

Re temperature , its not a design fault, its a function of the price of the machine and the technology in it as a result . The light is worked by a basic thermostat i think , this means it can have a swing around 10 degrees either side of an optimum temperature, due to small boiler size and not so accurate measuring .

To help with this people use a technique called temp surfing , there are different ways of doing it here is one .

this will explain how






I would recommend brewing and then steaming , also , as I feel outs better to raise the temp from brewing to steaming than the other way round . Plus the milk doesn't separate etc, while you wait to brew.

The Silvia is a good machine with robust parts, it has a bigger boiler than a Classic and more steam power , it suffers from the same foibles and as any other single boiler unit ( like a classic) , so in that respect is seen by many as a sideways step from a classic, as it has largely the same functionality.

What grinder do you have paired with it ?


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks for that. I watched the video and that seems simple enough. I have it paired with a KitchenAid 'Artisan' burr grinder and find that the second finest setting gives me a 60ml shot in 35 seconds which seems about right. I am still confused about the burning out of the element and why sometimes I have to wait a minute or so for stream after brewing, and sometimes not at all.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

When you've steamed milk, run the brew pump to replenish the boiler. It doesn't auto-fill during steaming. It will splutter a bit which is normal. When it settles down, it's OK to switch off. Doing this will look after the boiler heating element. You can't run the brew pump with the steam switch on. You should be able to steam enough for two large caps without stressing the boiler. If you are concerned, just switch off the steam switch, and replenish the boiler via the brew switch.

Advise getting a milk frothing thermometer or some Temp Tags (see Machina Espresso - advertiser on this forum). Obviously, choice of milk is personal preference but suggest you home your skills on whole milk first. Proper microfoamed milk should look shiny and velvety. If it's dullish - it's overfoamed.

The heat sensor on the Silvia, like all machines, operates over a range of temps, that is, the water temp, when it cuts in and cuts out will be in the range of a few degrees 1-3c-ish. Temp surfing is a way of optimising the temp at which you chose to pull the shot. Plenty of suggestions on how to do that on YouTube.


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

That explains why I couldn't get any water. I must have had the steam switch on. I have an 'Andrew James' thermometer but don't know how accurate it is although I've calibrated it at 100c. I'm looking at temperature tags. Thanks.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There are plenty of guides on the Seattle coffee gear youtube channel about descaling and back flushing and looking after a silvia .

Worth checking out.

Plus this thread also

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?10188-What-to-do-when-you-receive-a-2nd-hand-Silvia


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

I'll check that out. It's actually the complexity of the machine that attracted me to it. I don't fancy the 'bean to cup' philosophy. Thanks again.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Just checking you do have a grinder also ? or have i missed where you mentioned this ?

Edit post yes you mentioned it ....

What beans you using >


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

Yes I have the KitchenAid Artisan grinder which I use on the second finest setting. This gives me a 60ml shot in 25 secs. I have read that this is not the best grinder for serious coffee people.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kedo said:


> Yes I have the KitchenAid Artisan grinder which I use on the second finest setting. This gives me a 60ml shot in 25 secs. I have read that this is not the best grinder for serious coffee people.


There are better , its main draw back it that it is stepped ( has gaps between settings ).

Will do an espresso grind though. You will just have to alter the other variables ( dose and tamp ) if the extraction falls between two of the steps.

Where are other grinders you will be able to adjust to the smallest degree . Whats the beans


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

I use 'Carraro Crema Espresso'. Any suggestions? One more confusion that you can help me with the machine. The variable time between brewing and steaming. Sometimes the light doesn't go off after brewing and I can steam right away. Also my crema is thick to start with but diminishes fairly quickly.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Crema will diminish as it settles , normal , think of it like guiness settling effect. Don't know that bean , where it from a roaster , online, a shop? Is it fresh ?

Read the link if you can i sent you will help.


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

One more confusion that you can help me with the machine. The variable time between brewing and steaming. Sometimes the light doesn't go off after brewing and I can steam right away. Also my crema is thick to start with but diminishes fairly quickly although it doesn't disappear. Also the Silvia seems to have more control with the steam knob. when do I use a blast of steam as opposed to a steady low stream?


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

It comes from a local coffee shop in a sealed bag but I'm looking for something better.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Crema is actually carbon dioxide which is released during extraction. Fresher beans have more CO2 than old stale beans. Crema is not an indicator of coffee excellence though.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

kedo said:


> It comes from a local coffee shop in a sealed bag but I'm looking for something better.


Try some of the roasters advertising on the forum. They are well geared up to internet sales and you are guaranteed top quality freshly roasted beans.


----------



## kedo (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks for that. I'll give them a try.


----------



## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

kedo said:


> I am still a bit confused about the machine. I understand it is possible to burn out the element if you don't keep the boiler primed. This seems like a design fault in an otherwise wonderful machine which I am prepared to tolerate if I understand it a bit better. Can it only happen after exhausting the boiler from multiple steamings? and how much steaming would you have to do to reach the critical point? This morning I prepared one cup of cappuccino and then ran some hot water through the wand. After this, I tried to run some hot water through the group head to clean it, and nothing came out. I panicked thinking that I had done the bad thing, but it was ok once I ran out a bit more hot water through the wand.
> 
> I am also a bit confused about brewing temperature as it would appear from the videos I have watched that water is too hot when the light is on requiring temperature 'surfing'. Another design flaw? Also I was told by the vender always to brew first but many videos show it the other way round. This morning after I brewed, and then switched on the steam switch for the milk. The light stayed on and I didn't have to wait for the steam at all. It seemed to work ok. Also, it is reputed to take a long time to reach working temperature. although the light goes out fairly quickly after it is first switched on from cold.


To answer your question,

the danger of burning out the element is real, if you continue making steam without (ever) activating the steam pump switch.

There is NO auto fill.

*The brew switch* will activate pump, fill boiler and overflow the water to PF...(but it will fill the boiler).

*The steam switch* will fill the boiler without spilling water, and (once tank is full) water will be diverted back to main water tank, thanks to 3 way valve.

Good thing is, that water in/out, is at the top, so if you leave your machine on, water can't leak out, only evaporate out...

I never steam, so I never worry.

I got my Silvia plugged in to wall auto on/off. On @6:30 off @17:00, works like a charm.

I consider the thermostat a design flaw in 2014. Temp surfing with a 500 euro machine? LoL. That's why many install PID.

A more accurate thermostat would solve the problem. 110 C is too hot!!!


----------

