# 64mm: The bread and butter grinder of the smaller outlet. (discussion)



## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

All those different makes and models from a new Mazzer E for ~£600 all the way down to a sub £100 model that is re-badged and being sold on ebay.... The actual grind performance is surely the same isn't it?

Well I guess there are better or worse implementations of grind adjustment to consider but with a mod here and a mod there don't they perform the same?

Oh yeah, those ex coffee shop ones are mostly doser models aren't they. Is that such a big deal?

I answered a post expecting others to chip in: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?20909-used-electric-grinder-for-%A3100-%A3150&p=246834#post246834 now I find I am 2nd guessing myself.

Given that any secondhand purchase could be a pup and that a certain degree of ability to use a screwdriver etc to strip and clean such a purchase and maybe fit new burrs is in order......

When a beginner is setting up for the first time......Can one of these fit the bill?

Even someone who bought a nice new shiny machine Should consider this class of grinder shouldn't they?

We would all love to be able to support our suppliers every time we buy but the reality is Some will buy new some can't afford new.... does it really matter?

I am quite new at this and as such have built up an opinion through reading lots of info and posts. I may well be completely wrong so...

I want to open a discussion on the capabilities, the pro's and con's of this class of grinder, and the potential downside of purchasing secondhand, in order that everyone, particularly the beginner, understands the aim of the game, then maybe the pertinent points might be gathered for placement in a beginners guide.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

grumpydaddy said:


> The actual grind performance is surely the same isn't it?


Grind performance varies greatly



grumpydaddy said:


> ... with a mod here and a mod there don't they perform the same?


Speed / torque / heat / burr sizes all have influences on the grind quality and the resulting taste



grumpydaddy said:


> ... ex coffee shop ones are mostly doser models aren't they. Is that such a big deal?


Not at all. There is nothing wrong with having a doser grinder in the home

They can actually resolve some issues that doserless models can have (eg clumping)



grumpydaddy said:


> ... some can't afford new.... does it really matter?


No, a good second hand commercial grinder is likely to outlast the user


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

" in order that everyone, particularly the beginner, understands the aim of the game, then maybe the pertinent points might be gathered for placement in a beginners guide"

Im not criticising in any way but if it was that easy to have a definitive grinder guide for absolutely everyone it would have been done way before i joined ...

CC s what you get for your money thread is the best resource I've seen on here ....

Aim of the game will be different for different people , here are some of the different aims people may set out with ( or a combination of )New or Old

Single dose or Least faff to use

Use for Espresso and or other brew methods ...

Amount of Space and partner acceptance ?

Absolute best in the cup , all other considerations mean nothing ....

A match of the level of machine they have to bring the best out of it ...

Whats your aim ? Coz we may be able to answer your aim but not someone else ...

Personally if I had an L1 coming id want something better in the cup ( subjective ) than a 64mm SJ.. But thats me , my aim is best in cup ...that doesn't make my opinion right in any way or one that other people should adopt...

This is why is can be difficult to have a absolute guide that fits every person , as people have different aims and needs...

Its why when people want to buy something they put up a new thread as ask, and in general the forum in its generous and good nature answer each time , even though a lot of the info exists on other threads ...


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Glenn said:


> *Grind performance varies greatly*
> 
> Considering just 64mm burr sets ....Do you think this is solely a function of the burr design?
> 
> ...


So, fix it up and clean it up and it will last as long as the user?.....For a high miler like me that is a given









Thanks Glenn, the mists are clearing.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Considering grinders are built for years of shop use (eg 500 times on/off per day) and the average home user is 2-3 times per day then the motor run time is minimal

Change the burrs, give is a good clean and you should get many years hassle-free grinding from a well looked after ex-commercial grinder


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

MrBoots, I hear you.

The point here is to perhaps clarify the technical merits of something like the SJ and note the downside, if any, of selecting another similar sized grinder.

The SJ seems to have a great following but there are so many other choices at this size one wonders what the sj can do that they cannot.

I consider this size, rightly or wrongly, to satisfy the basic needs of anyone at HX level and below. Of course a higher spec of grinder is desirable but with prices often being seen below £100 in the secondhand market, I am hoping to put forth the premise that a total spend of £300-£400 for machine and grinder could be not just OK but a desirable and achievable goal for a beginner to start at a higher level. (Yes I admit, there might be an ulterior motive here)

As for my situation... Yes I have plans for a grinder upgrade..... It will likely need saving for but I feel that a secondhand Mythos or an F83E will have to do for the foreseeable future. Two BIG (for me) money purchases together is not likely.

I wonder if I am the only one that looks in their wallet towards the end of the month and thinks.... Should have tried harder at school.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

@Grumpydaddy

Your points are completely valid, some time ago I pointed out the vitues of commercial grinders when the consensus was an MC2 and I pointed out that on the whole 65mm grinders all did a similar job, some slightly better than others, but essetially you dont have to spend MAzzer money (£250 upward) for a really good second hand commercial grinder. They can be had on ebay for less than £100 if you are lucky, or purchased second hand on the forum for around £150-£200. The differences will be whether they are stepless like the mazzers or fiorenzatos and also the power rating of the motors. some are more ugly than others but will still do a great job at grinding, but generally most commercial grinders will be better than the smaller home focussed grinders that often cost a lot more to buy.


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## alanm (Dec 25, 2014)

Great thread all

Especially when looking for a grinder myself to start my coffee journey ,,i have indeed looked on ebay and seen several differnt commercial machines with a varying price range all 64mm

the build looks simlar to a mazzer also the design but several different brands ! should these cheaper or not so well known brands be discounted ?

always learning alanm


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

if you are referring to the fiorenzato f5 grinders that seem to pop up quite frequently then no do not discount them a s they are as good as a mazzer in the cup....


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## alanm (Dec 25, 2014)

coffeechap

there are some expobar units and fiorenzanto f46e aswell as f5s all look good quality built units but hows there grind ?


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## simonp (Nov 18, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> if you are referring to the fiorenzato f5 grinders that seem to pop up quite frequently then no do not discount them a s they are as good as a mazzer in the cup....


My recent F5 purchase (fitted with new Super Jolly burrs) is massively outstripping my Mini (58mm) in the cup so I'm pretty happy with that purchase at quite a bit less than an SJ in a similar condition would have cost me, so definitely don't discount them.


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