# Gurgling from the sage DB?



## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Hello fellows

It's been 3 days since I've bought a sage DB - been really happy with a machine, quick warm up, fast steaming and stable temp.

By using this machine, a few questions have come up in mind:

1) I've just noticed that when the machine is turned on from cold, it initially makes a gurgling sound as if water is being filled into the boiler.

2) also, when pulling the shot, there is gurgling sound again for the first 2-3 seconds then it disappears. Is this normal at all? From what I can see from youtube videos of other users, I can't really see this.

3) boiler reaches 93C within a few mins from cold, but how long does it take for the grouphead to reach this temp too?

Thanks for any help in advance.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

jonny11 said:


> Hello fellows
> 
> 2) also, when pulling the shot, there is gurgling sound again for the first 2-3 seconds then it disappears. Is this normal at all? From what I can see from youtube videos of other users, I can't really see this.


Mine did this. I sent it back and got a replacement after people here said they hadn't observed this. The replacement behaved identically. I think it's the superheated water, sat in the pre-heat heat exchanger in the steam boiler, flash boiling when the solenoid opens and the pressure drops. I don't think it matters.


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

GlennV said:


> Mine did this. I sent it back and got a replacement after people here said they hadn't observed this. The replacement behaved identically. I think it's the superheated water, sat in the pre-heat heat exchanger in the steam boiler, flash boiling when the solenoid opens and the pressure drops. I don't think it matters.


So now all the DBs doing this? I know it doesnt really affect the function but I wasnt sure if this was normal lol

these 2 girgitating sounds from the initial start up and just before pulling the shots arent too pleasant


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

No gurgling here. Just a fairly quiet boiling water sound as it heats up.

Portafilter heat up time - more or less for ever. The grouphead is part plastic and part metal. The metal part is behind the rear shower screen and is heated separately. I don't think there is any need to wait for that to heat up. It will be by the time the boilers are up to temperature.

From habit I do flush mine via a pressurised basket before pulling a shot. Their other machines have the metal plate but no heater on it. I still use a pressurised basket for that as it also gets the portafilter hot. It also gives the machine a bit of a clean water back flush each time it's turned on.

John

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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ajohn said:


> No gurgling here. Just a fairly quiet boiling water sound as it heats up.
> 
> Portafilter heat up time - more or less for ever. The grouphead is part plastic and part metal. The metal part is behind the rear shower screen and is heated separately. I don't think there is any need to wait for that to heat up. It will be by the time the boilers are up to temperature.
> 
> ...


Thanks John

Quite strange some people have it some people don't.

I will see if I can video it and post it up later here.

Thanks for your advice btw regarding the portafilter


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LOL I pulled one shot without the pressurised basket flush and it came out stronger. All sorts of bean and basket fill problems though so probably a fluke. On the other hand it might be worth trying both approaches. I think that what happened on the BE if I didn't preheat the lot like this was down to the metal plate and no extra heater. Without it 3 drinks on the trot had different tastes - last one strongest -







Mine of course but one day I thought I should try all.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Strength is a function of the amount of coffee to water ratio. Flushing or not wouldn't impact this.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The temp of the water and of May have impacted on your extraction yield and taste.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> The temp of the water and of May have impacted on your extraction yield and taste.


Yes it does and as I mentioned "BE if I didn't preheat the lot like this was down to the metal plate and no extra heater" which the water passes through. That is an oddity on the BE so the effect may be down to pipe work.

It also passes through the shower screen and on the DB what is behind. Sage also mention flushing before pulling a shot. If the portafilter doesn't take heat away from the flow it's rather strange that it warms up if not preheated.

John

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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I use my Sage DB for shots pretty much as soon as it gets to 93c. I do a flush just to clear out the group and it's a habit from e61 days.

If I'm using the steam wand I give it 10 mins to get to full power.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I don't use steam much or at all at the moment but it will steam as soon as 93C is reached. I give it a puff every now and again to keep it clean even though I don't use it. My normal practice is -

When it states 93C fit a single pressurised basket and flush for 15 sec.

Run hot water into my mug, part way through that remove the basket and fit the one I intend to use.

Grind beans, water will finish part way through so turn off - the temp usually flashes after hot water is run.







Grinding takes a while weighing in, brushes etc. I've added a 58mm lens hood as portafilter funnel so a bit quicker now as I needn't settle the grinds part way through. Also gets round the way the mini throws out grinds some of which will miss the basket without it.

Tamp and pull the shot. The temp is stable by then.

Using the pressurised basket the pressure goes up to about 8 bar and it's full of water - net effect a bit of a clean water back wash each time the machine is used.

Going back to the BE and said drinks I had noticed that even if the portafilter and basket are flushed as Sage suggest it didn't really add any heat. When a shot is pulled just the top gets hotter. By the time 3 are pulled it's all hot. They have a teflon insert in the base of the BE portafter which would help stop it from taking heat out of the shot. Net effect - the only way I could find of getting the portafilter near to what a metal grouphead does if left in while heating up was to use a flush with a pressurised basket. The DB seems to be much the same.

John

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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

I must admit I tend to leave my DB on for at least 15 mins before pulling a shot- that way everything seems pretty hot.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I stopped preheating with pressurised basket for a while to lock the taste into my head. Then went back to preheating it. Definite difference, pretty marked too.








I've noticed my hot water is cooler than it was - guess my workflow has speeded up so maybe it should be left a few more min that when the machines says ok. So have gone back to using the flush to warm my mug a bit.

I've also noticed that the manual states short flush without the portafilter to stabilise the temperature and clear any grounds on the shower screen. I have seen mention of a HX style feed through the steam boiler to the brew boiler. When I remember must try it to see if there is any difference.







I'm sometimes on autopilot when I pull a shot.

John

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