# Sage Barista Express - Reliability



## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Hi looking at pulling the trigger on a sage barista express, just had some concerns over the reliability of the unit. some people on here like it, other have complains. i just wondered if their is anyone one here that has had one long term and can tell me if the regret it or not. Thanks! first post by the way!!!! Dave


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Not had one long term, only just got the dtp but it's a quality product, buy from Lakeland for the 3 year warranty?

I thought about the barista pro pro but decided I'd get better coffee out of the duo temp pro and a eureka mignon.


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## MikeBookham (Sep 3, 2016)

I've had my Sage Barista Express about 3 months and I also had similar concerns regards reliability when I decided to buy it. However I decided that I'd probably consider a machine upgrade before the warranty expires (Sage is 2yrs, Lakeland 3yrs) so won't ahead with the purchase.


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## Wes78 (Apr 18, 2017)

MikeBookham said:


> I've had my Sage Barista Express about 3 months and I also had similar concerns regards reliability when I decided to buy it. However I decided that I'd probably consider a machine upgrade before the warranty expires (Sage is 2yrs, Lakeland 3yrs) so won't ahead with the purchase.


My thinking too with the oracle unless upgraditis strikes


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Well I have ordered the barista express now. Should be arriving tomorrow. ? See how things go.


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## Wes78 (Apr 18, 2017)

dave.stephenson90 said:


> Well I have ordered the barista express now. Should be arriving tomorrow.  See how things go.


Bet you cant wait Dave. Keep us posted how you get on with it.

not to try and encourage you to spend more money but have you get some nice fresh coffee beans to run through it ?


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Not yet. Booths round the corner has a few different fresh roast coffee that have roast date of about 7 days ago. They will have to do for tomorrow. Any recommendations for an easy bean to dial in? Thanks


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## Wes78 (Apr 18, 2017)

I have tended to stick to the same bean/type of roast since I got my machine. That way it's a variable I don't have to worry about whilst I familiarise myself with the process.

their are many good roasters online. Coffee compass is one, a discount code is available via pm for members I believe.

ive heard good things about the jampit they sell.

Personally I have been buying from Dave at Crankhouse coffee who has a discount code running for the duration of the Tour de France. His CH7 is very tasty as an espresso, with milk, americano.

I get it by the kilo as the oracle doses high and I like to play around. I would get at least 500g, maybe even a kilo of something if I were you, especially at the beginning when your trying the machine out.

have a look at the websites, try and match your taste preferences to the bean and don't hesitate to contact them, I've found them very helpful.

another thing from Crankhouse with the Ch7 blend is that it's generally 7 days post roast when I get it so I don't have to be as organised!

oh and don't get too hung up on things, make sure to enjoy the coffee, priority number one imo.


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks mate. Hows the oracle?


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## Wes78 (Apr 18, 2017)

dave.stephenson90 said:


> Thanks mate. Hows the oracle?


Very good thanks, I particularly like the choice between automatic/manual, allowing me the convenience if i want it.

If your interested I have a thread dedicated to my experiences over on the sage forum 'my oracle adventure'


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

Is this your first machine Dave?


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

If I'm not wrong it's a single boiler with s grinder?


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Yes this will be my first machine. It is a single boiler with grinder. How about you?


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

Sorry for late reply, I'm sure you will love it, has it arrived yet? Do you make many coffees at a time? Anymore than two and it starts to become a chore with the single boiler, that's how I felt anyway.


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## Slates71 (Jul 9, 2017)

Guys... Looking at either the Sage Batista or Sage DTP with separate grinder.now I do like Americano and the Express has a water spout but the DTP you have to use the wand? Could be messy /awkward?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Slates71 said:


> Guys... Looking at either the Sage Batista or Sage DTP with separate grinder.now I do like Americano and the Express has a water spout but the DTP you have to use the wand? Could be messy /awkward?


Using the water spout isn't too bad to be honest. As long as you aim it right and try control the swirl. I've used mine to make Americanos when I've ran out of milk


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## Slates71 (Jul 9, 2017)

Thank you for your help. I think with that in mind I'll go for the Barista all in one., cheers


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

Slates71 said:


> Thank you for your help. I think with that in mind I'll go for the Barista all in one., cheers


Second hand heat exchanger, stop you from upgrading quicker lol.


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Getting the hang of it!


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

Looking nice! Enjoy


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## Wes78 (Apr 18, 2017)

Looks very nice mate.

Let us know how you get on


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

How long after beans are roasted should I wait to use them. My hasbean starter pack has arrived they were roasted on 11th.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

dave.stephenson90 said:


> How long after beans are roasted should I wait to use them. My hasbean starter pack has arrived they were roasted on 11th.


General rule of thumb is let them rest for atleast a week.


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## dave.stephenson90 (Jul 5, 2017)

Thanks


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Just to share some info on reliability and although I had a fault some reassurance.

I've had mine for almost 2 years now and love it. I did have a warranty repair after almost a year of ownership, this was actually due to (I think anyway) a solenoid failing due to scale build up. The machine was making a shrill sound when extracting and sounded very wrong. Sage literally listened to my machine on the phone and had an engineer out within a few days no qualms or issues.

I then had an independent engineer visit the house, repair it there and then and show me the inside of the machine. He advised that Sage's descaling instructions were woefully inadequate for the UK (states white vinegar which I had done regularly) especially in my very hard water area and gave me some puly to be getting on with. He made test coffees with latte art I can only dream of, plus he chucked me a free bag of coffee to try from his companies roastery. It was the most enjoyable repair I ever had, I learnt a lot.









He said he mostly repaired the more commercial stuff and hadn't repaired many sages, he reassured me the parts inside were both simple and serviceable (he pointed inside and showed me bits but I didnt really understand lol) and there was nothing that wasn't replaceable. I also talked about the hopper warming up and he showed me the heat shielding and location of parts in the machine and said he didn't think it should be as big a problem as reports would have us believe, he suspect it was just warm from grinding. Overall having a fault weirdly gave me more confidence in Sage not less.

So yup I did have a fault but I've been descaling with puly ever since, loving the machine, still working a charm and no issues since then.


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## Digger (Oct 22, 2017)

Good to hear re reliability. Trying to decide duo temp or BE.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Digger said:


> Good to hear re reliability. Trying to decide duo temp or BE.


Beauty of a DTP is the ability to chose a different grinder if you wanted to.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MatthewBw said:


> Just to share some info on reliability and although I had a fault some reassurance.
> 
> I've had mine for almost 2 years now and love it. I did have a warranty repair after almost a year of ownership, this was actually due to (I think anyway) a solenoid failing due to scale build up. The machine was making a shrill sound when extracting and sounded very wrong. Sage literally listened to my machine on the phone and had an engineer out within a few days no qualms or issues.
> 
> ...


White vinegar? The machines come with a sachet of descaling powder and a couple of back wash pills. Puly is for back washing not descaling. The sachets of descaling powder are pretty big and get dissolved in 1Lof warm water and then used as directed. I think that the manuals for the machines can be downloaded from their web site. Worth reading if a machine comes without one.

The sachets have 25g of some powder in them. What pass. Probably mostly acetic acid but I'd suspect that dissolved in 1L of water you'd find it a bit strong on your fish and chips. It's also a fact that it may contain other substances such as sulphamic acid.

Wish I'd weighed the packet that came with the machine - I think it was bigger than the ones they sell in a box. There is lots of spare room for more in the box too. Shrinkflation maybe.

Puly is ok. I've use it to on one machine but it contains a proportion of some nasty stuff. There's still a need to remove the shower screen now and again and clean that even when a machine is back flushed. The same is likely to apply what ever is used.

John

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## Ninelives999 (Oct 24, 2017)

I've had a barista express for 3 years now. Like someone mentioned above, I had an issue after 1 year. I can't Remember what it was now. Since then i've had no problem. Given the cost of the product, I would expect it expect it to last up to 10 years if well looked after. Remember your consumer rights (act 2015). You have up to 6 years from time of purchase to take issue up with the seller. Just because they only guarantee it for 2 years, it doesn't mean that they aren't still liable. You would have to point this out to them though because most don't know the act properly.

On another note, does anyone know if the grinder burrs in the Be are the same as the ones in the 820 pro grinder? First post, so hi to everyone.


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Mine certainly had no tablets or descaling powder in the box sadly, I had to buy them separately.

They dissolve in a litre of water, sounds like your description? The stuff I use it below. For the tablets I use Cafiza ones.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Puly-Cleaner-Descaler-Espresso-Machine/dp/B002EJ6EHS


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## Claude (Nov 10, 2012)

Hey all,

I had some issues with the Barista express - I've had it for about a year now. It's actually my second machine I had, got a replacement one from Amazon that just had a issue today. The issues I had were around the pump, the first one the machine could get enough pressure in the system, the second issue was that the steam would not kick off from the steam wand.

I have cleaned the machine as per the manufacturer instructions so I'm not sure if I'm unlucky or if there is a real issue with the product.

Hope it helps


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Have you ever back flushed or descaled it ?

John

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## Claude (Nov 10, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Have you ever back flushed or descaled it ?
> 
> John
> 
> -


Yes I did - the thing is the water/steam is not coming out either from the steam wand or the water dispenser.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I haven't had my machine as long as you but looking around prior to purchase I couldn't really find any reliability issues. I have had mine decide to pump water out of the steam wand and have no idea why it did this - twice now. I suspect it's a software bug and it decided it's a dual temperature pro for some reason. Running a shot cures it.

The machine tells people when to back flush via the clean me light but that doesn't do anything about scale. Changing the filter regularly might help with that but it's pretty small compared with those that can soften a lot of water.

Given no steam or water I'd suspect that something has bust if the pump doesn't run. If it does run and nothing comes out some solenoid somewhere may be acting up or not being driven correctly or the system may be blocked. Scale could do all of that and descaling after machine has problems wont help. I live in a soft water area. Many people don't. Some one on here looks for signs of scale in their kettle and descales his machine if he see signs in that because there will be more in his machine. I've decided to do it on the basis of clean me cycles. We no longer have a kettle but the build up in that over several years was slight and it was used many times each day.

So really it *boil*s down to did you descale before problems. With a thermoblock machine scale is a problem you don't want to have which means that they will require descaling more often than boiler types. The plus is that they heat up very very quickly. Boiler types don't.

No water through the portafilter - I have managed to stall my machine by grinding way too fine. The pump runs briefly and then stops when that happens. That's peobably what will happen if the water/steam is blocked or maybe if a solenoid isn't opening. A DTP it seems uses microswitches on the selector. I think I've read that these may need a bit of repositioning at times on DTP's. I don't know what happens in a BE as mine is under warrantee so wont be opening it up. Very tempted though.

John

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## Densven (Sep 10, 2013)

I've had a Barista Express now for almost a year after our delonghi magnifica decided it had done it's time. We use bottled water and as such have never had a problem on either machine with limescale. Its more expensive but better tasting than the tap water we get. When we first got the machine the coffee always had an astringent taste. Long story short, the filter it came with was the problem and now tastes fine with new carbon filters in.

To highlight some of the issues from previous posts, making coffee for 1-2 is fine but 4 coffees and milk for 6 hot choclates(on bonfire night) takes along time!! Also, if making an American I found it better to boil a kettle, 3/4 fill your cup and then extract your espresso into that. Overall I enjoy the skill needed to use the machine, my 'push a button' wife... not so much.

I do find the grinder on the machine does a good job.


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

It's quite a nice dilemma to have


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MatthewBw said:


> It's quite a nice dilemma to have


Note sure what the delemma is









If some one does manage to block it all up I suspect much could be done via a dismantle or if not happy about DIY get an engineer to do it - that isn't a cheap option. Some new bits might be needed such as a steam wand as that could be hard to clear. The pipes in the thermoblock aren't that small since they went to the newer design. Water runs through either plastic pipes or stainless so it might be possible to use a really aggressive descaler with a bit of thought. Going on a part Sage sent me by mistake down to the spares shown on their web pages all parts are very probably available. I suggested that they made parts listings and diagrams available but got the reply can't do that for obvious reasons. Leaves me a little perplexed as these can be obtained from just about any other espresso machine manufacturer on the planet.








What I should have asked the person with a problem BE is how much do you want for it. Mainly so that I can take one apart and see if any interesting things can be done to it.

John

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## moultram (Jan 18, 2017)

Wish I'd weighed the packet that came with the machine - I think it was bigger than the ones they sell in a box.

Hi John,

The packet that comes with the machine is 25 grams. I've still got mine.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Ninelives999 said:


> I've had a barista express for 3 years now. Like someone mentioned above, I had an issue after 1 year. I can't Remember what it was now. Since then i've had no problem. Given the cost of the product, I would expect it expect it to last up to 10 years if well looked after. Remember your consumer rights (act 2015). You have up to 6 years from time of purchase to take issue up with the seller. Just because they only guarantee it for 2 years, it doesn't mean that they aren't still liable. You would have to point this out to them though because most don't know the act properly.
> 
> On another note, does anyone know if the grinder burrs in the Be are the same as the ones in the 820 pro grinder? First post, so hi to everyone.


As far as I know all of the burrs in their machine range are the same built in or otherwise. Adjustment mechanisms vary. The one on the BE looks to be restricted to the espresso range but probably goes further than needed.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

moultram said:


> Wish I'd weighed the packet that came with the machine - I think it was bigger than the ones they sell in a box.
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> The packet that comes with the machine is 25 grams. I've still got mine.


The Sage packets contain sulphamic acid. The % they mention has rather a wide range though. The puly cafe descaler makes no mention of what's in it. Some descalers just use fruit acids. Given that descaling a Sage thermoblock machine is a bit odd in some ways sulphamic could be important.







Odd - if I descale a kettle or our hot water dispenser I fill it with water plus descaler, heat it up and leave for 1/2 hr or more. I would do the same with a boiler machine except limit the temperature to 80C or so by switching it off. Many makes of dual boiler then need the spanners to come out. HX machines are probably fun too.

I live in a very soft water area that would compete with bottled water. I seem to get the urge to descale about every 3 months Puly would have people descale every month.

Personally I feel that Sage charge too much for their cleaning products / don't supply enough. The price especially with postage is bound to cause a lot of people to buy other products. On the Bariista Touch they look to have shifted to a type of coffee machine filter. While that sounds great they do have their problems - don't allow them to dry out for instance. Some makers reckon water in a tank should be changed every couple of daye so if you go on holiday with one of these get who ever pops in to feed the cat to change the water too. They also have stated litre capabilities. These may not apply to some of the harder water areas in the UK. They state Claris but there is another similar looking filter about from places like espresso underground but it wouldn't surprise me if they were different.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> I live in a very soft water area that would compete with bottled water. I seem to get the urge to descale about every 3 months Puly would have people descale every month.
> 
> John
> 
> -


UK bottled water is generally hard, only a very few are soft (Stretton Hills, Speyside, Armarthwaite & Deeside).


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> UK bottled water is generally hard, only a very few are soft (Stretton Hills, Speyside, Armarthwaite & Deeside).


I'm not going to look up B'ham's water hardness again.







Maybe I should bottle it and sell it espresso machine owners.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Back on reliability it looks like the grinder in my BE is bust. The adjustment mechanism isn't working over most of it's range the problem being at the finer end. Net result high brew pressures at the coarse end probably down to a lot more fines. I had wondered what was going on as consistency went to pot on my favourite bean. Strength more or less the same, taste rather variable. Grinder 6 clicks coarser than where it would normally be. That is rather a lot - something of an understatement.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> . Net result high brew pressures at the coarse end probably down to a lot more fines. I had wondered what was going on as consistency went to pot on my favourite bean. Strength more or less the same, taste rather variable. Grinder 6 clicks coarser than where it would normally be. That is rather a lot - something of an understatement.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Does the grind not look like its changing > are you judging its effective by the gauge or by visual inspection or my a theory on fines ( which of course you cant see )


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Gauge initially and then by checking for movement of the burrs. I had also noticed a change in the feeling of the adjustment wheel much earlier.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Gauge initially and then by checking for movement of the burrs. I had also noticed a change in the feeling of the adjustment wheel much earlier.
> 
> John
> 
> -


What does the coffee look like ground , in very simple terms , from the coarser to the finer setting.

Is this the grinder you have previously had the top off ?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> What does the coffee look like ground , in very simple terms , from the coarser to the finer setting.
> 
> Is this the grinder you have previously had the top off ?


You maybe seem to be thinking that I may have messed it up. Afraid not. It's a fact that the burrs aren't moving when they are adjusted. This has nothing to do with cleaning the burrs and chamber out or later fitting a new felt washer. You may have noticed me asking about burr movement during adjustment in another thread in part because I had used a dti to check that and the results didn't make much sense. What ever it is its much worse now.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> You maybe seem to be thinking that I may have messed it up. Afraid not. It's a fact that the burrs aren't moving when they are adjusted. This has nothing to do with cleaning the burrs and chamber out or later fitting a new felt washer. You may have noticed me asking about burr movement during adjustment in another thread in part because I had used a dti to check that and the results didn't make much sense. What ever it is its much worse now.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I was asking as if you have visible changed somehting it may cancel your warranty, also to ascertain if it was the same grinder.

s the coffee not visibly changing size when ground ?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The only part of the grinder associated with the lid is the hopper. It would take a lot more dismantling to get at any parts of the grinder other than the burrs.

Essentially the burrs aren't moving at all until I get to a setting of over 10. It seems to be stuck somewhere around that and brew pressure wise very similar to what I had been getting at 6 but with really serious taste variations. Previously I had used settings down to 4. I thought it was odd that the burrs didn't seem to move at all over my usual working range and that's via checking using a DTI. I wondered if I had it located that well enough.

It seems to use something akin to a screw to adjust the burrs. Not possible to get at or see but something seems to be amiss in that area. I can feel the burrs moving with a finger as they are adjusted at the coarse end.

I haven't a clear idea when this happened as I have been using the SGP since some time before Xmas until recently when I started looking to see how well it worked weighing beans in. Much the same as the SGP but I have noticed more severe clumping at times and thought that was down to it settling in again.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Might be worth mentioning warrantees. My son ordered the BE from John Lewis on the basis of highstreet retailer and no messing about if problems happen. He didn't read the small print. They offer a repair warrantee only so I need to contact Sage for a free repair. That means engineer comes out, checks fault, leaves a temp replacement until the repair is done. JL also sad that they will send out parts for diy repairs. I have my doubts about that but would I want to replace a major part of the grinder assembly? I could also drop it off at one of their shops. Same thing happens but no temp replacement.

LOL I had noticed the repair warrantee aspects before I ordered a DB but part of me had hoped to get a new replacement for obvious reasons. Also wouldn't want to sell it with a grinder that appear to be all ok.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I fancied a BE monsooned to compare with DB shots. Anyway set a grind that should blast the opv open and it didn't so I seem to have a grinder that is stuck in some fashion where the lower settings don't function correctly. In fact the brew pressure gauge stopped short of it opening which is where i have been using it recently. Settings of 10 or 12, setting 6 is now exactly the same.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> I fancied a BE monsooned to compare with DB shots. Anyway set a grind that should blast the opv open and it didn't so I seem to have a grinder that is stuck in some fashion where the lower settings don't function correctly. In fact the brew pressure gauge stopped short of it opening which is where i have been using it recently. Settings of 10 or 12, setting 6 is now exactly the same.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Why not check to see if the grinds are actually getting larger/smaller at the different settings, rather than assume based on pressure?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I have looked, difficult to call other than where I can feel that the burrs are moving right up at the coarse end. I've drunk loads of MM with the setting I tried that should open the OPV and fills the drip tray up more quickly than the usual 30ml going in on each shot.

I had a phone call from Coffee Classics yesterday. I had run out of MM so they will be phoning back in a couple of days. A new batch of MM arrived this morning so I can now double check that it can work as it did. It seems that the grinder uses the usual screw arrangement for adjustment so what I can feel with my finger on the burrs doesn't make much sense - no movement except right at the coarser end where there is very noticeable movement. The CC man mentioned that it was a good idea to have the grinder running when it's adjusted. Not an obvious thing to do on a BE. I did notice that going finer could be stiff early on and did pulse the grinder. It has worked as expected though since that period. The grinder remained at the fine setting I use for a long time.. I only noticed a change after working at the coarser end for a while to see if I could get an acceptable drink without the OPV opening. Ok on Sumatra NVG on MM

I suspect my best answer really is a DTI and compare the movement of the BE grinder and my SGP. The BE setting were progressive - not at all sure they are now. The best way to check that way would be to grind at various settings and check for movement after it's ground some or even while it's grinding them.

John

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