# New Elizabeth V3 owner



## Caffeinated_fiend

Hi everyone,

Big day for me today as I upgraded from a Sage Barista Pro to a Lelit Elizabeth V3, got it all setup and it really does heat up quick. The first time I haven't had to manually heat up a portafilter. One thing that is going to be a game changer for me is consistency with this machine as the sage was always a pain to keep warm due to the nature of how it works.

I am used to pre-infusion as I always pulled manual shots with the Sage with a 5 second pre-infusion and then would aim for a total brew time of around 30 seconds usually at a 1:2.5 ratio.

I had a few attempts with the Lelit using preset 2, which from factory is steam pressure for around 7 or so seconds before full power I believe. Should I be counting the steam pressure as well as the full shot time, or the start of the timer? I noticed when the shots I was doing went longer they had the typical tiger striping that wasn't there at the 28s mark shot I had as an Americano. The good news is it's the best shot I've ever made, I put 17.5 in the basket and pulled 35g out, the upgrade in quality of shot was night and day. The best part is I managed a decent shot with the plastic fantastic tamper as I haven't got one yet.

I normally place the portafilter on the counter top but the portafilter on the Elizabeth doesn't have a gap big enough so I was just tamping with the portafilter sat on the tamping mat.

Lastly should I be buying the Lelit tamper? I think I need the 58.5mm one? I also need to get a distribution tool as I've been making a mess once the grinds go in from the niche, I can't so far get them to go in flat. There is normally a slope of grounds that I then need to distribute.


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## DavecUK

@Caffeinated_fiend you have to do the macarana with the portafilter and inverted grind cup an with practice you will get it level all the time


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - Join the club! Do read Dave's review of the Elizabeth, twice over, and same for the videos. The best thing you can do is to use the settings on that review, rather than the factory settings.

The machine has a timer. That's how you count it: from the moment you press the button. Pre-infusion is part of the total time.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend - Join the club! Do read Dave's review of the Elizabeth, twice over, and same for the videos. The best thing you can do is to use the settings on that review, rather than the factory settings.
> 
> The machine has a timer. That's how you count it: from the moment you press the button. Pre-infusion is part of the total time.


 I will have another look it was @DavecUK review that made me go with it and I have watched the vids but I haven't yet absorbed all the info. It fact he's just rickrolled me as I thought ah maybe he's linked one of his videos, safe to say it wasn't 😂


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## Caffeinated_fiend

DavecUK said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend you have to do the macarana with the portafilter and inverted grind cup an with practice you will get it level all the time


 I was going to buy the Lelit distribution tool but might hold off then if it's possible to get it level with the grind cup alone.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - The distribution tool is the least of your worries. In my opinion, a self-levelling tamper is a more worthwhile investment.

Like this one:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/item/483-decent-tamper-v4-as-new-5845mm/?do=embed

There are others of lesser quality and cheaper value. I have a Bravo Tamper myself. The distribution tool is now in the drawer. 🙂


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend - The distribution tool is the least of your worries. In my opinion, a self-levelling tamper is a more worthwhile investment.
> 
> Like this one:
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/item/483-decent-tamper-v4-as-new-5845mm/?do=embed
> 
> There are others of lesser quality and cheaper value. I have a Bravo Tamper myself. The distribution tool is now in the drawer. 🙂


 Wowzers I have to save up some pennies again and get something like this, do you use the Lelit portafiler that came with the machine? Do you just sit it on a surface?

Also if I am using Tesco Ashbeck for the water do I need the resin filter?


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## MediumRoastSteam

I wouldn't bother with the resin filter @Caffeinated_fiend . But saying that, eventually, after a couple of years, you might need to do a descale. Would the filter help? I don't know. Probably. I never used mine.

I have a bottomless PF. Easier to keep it clean.

if you do want a distribution tool, you can get something off Amazon or eBay. I have an Scarlet Espresso branded and it does the trick, but I haven't used in a while. It's great to encourage level tamping, and keep things tidy, but it's not a requirement.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Hey @MediumRoastSteamwhat is your go to setting, I have been experimenting with a 10 second steam infusion so far but I'm waiting for some beans to degas that are only about 5 days old currently.

I have noticed on some shots that I have a darker line running down almost likes stripes, could this be channeling? The puck looks fine after, but it's not a solid colour change throughout?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Hey @MediumRoastSteamwhat is your go to setting, I have been experimenting with a 10 second steam infusion so far but I'm waiting for some beans to degas that are only about 5 days old currently.
> 
> I have noticed on some shots that I have a darker line running down almost likes stripes, could this be channeling? The puck looks fine after, but it's not a solid colour change throughout?


 I have a 10s steam pre-infusion as my go to setting.

it's hard to tell from a description. Also, shots can look different on a naked portafilter. Darker beans tend to look amazing; try the same with lighter roasts and it just looks very wrong. However, it doesn't means it's wrong. It's just how it is.

So, if it tastes good, then don't worry about it.

if you shoot a video, maybe we can give you better feedback.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have a 10s steam pre-infusion as my go to setting.
> 
> it's hard to tell from a description. Also, shots can look different on a naked portafilter. Darker beans tend to look amazing; try the same with lighter roasts and it just looks very wrong. However, it doesn't means it's wrong. It's just how it is.
> 
> So, if it tastes good, then don't worry about it.
> 
> if you shoot a video, maybe we can give you better feedback.


 Once my beans are ready I will do, I have the Niche Macarena down now so the grounds are much better distributed than on my first day with the machine. I know it depends but what sort of all in extraction times do you aim for with the 10 second preinfusion? Also dose? I got some Milk buster with the machine from Bella Barista and put 18g in but the basket wasn't full at that amount by any means.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Once my beans are ready I will do, I have the Niche Macarena down now so the grounds are much better distributed than on my first day with the machine. I know it depends but what sort of all in extraction times do you aim for with the 10 second preinfusion? Also dose? I got some Milk buster with the machine from Bella Barista and put 18g in but the basket wasn't full at that amount by any means.


 I use a VST 18g. So, 18g in, 36g out in approx. 35s total. For the stock basket, start with 18g and go from there. If it's not quite full (remembering needs some clearance, mine you) then try 19g. I think Lelit has since changed the baskets, and are now made by IMS I think.

milk buster is a medium/darkish bean, should be easy to extract.

And as for the Niche Macarena Dance @DavecUK should coin this term)&#8230; for those who are young or old enough to remember this back in the day&#8230;


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## Caffeinated_fiend

@MediumRoastSteamThat video has the perfect frame rate and tinnyness that would have played perfectly on my 333mhz pentium machine via some nasty sound blaster speakers. Many a Spanish holiday with my parents and having to suffer through the Macarena 😩

I haven't played with the temp yet so it is still at the default 95c, the Lelit baskets do say on the side that they are by IMS. A couple of test shots with the Milk buster looked good but it's only 5 days old I was just impatient to have a play with the machine. I made a flat white with horrific looking latte art.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

I tried an 18g Milk Buster today as an Americano but I wasn't too impressed, it wasn't bitter at all but I might turn down the brew temp as it had a strong but bland taste as an Americano. I prefer stronger roasts to have the Italian style taste but still without bitterness.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Have you keyed in all Dave's settings and are you waiting for the machine to stabilise after heating up?


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Have you keyed in all Dave's settings and are you waiting for the machine to stabilise after heating up?


 Hi, yes I'm giving the machine a good 30 minutes to warm up, I haven't changed any of the advanced LCC settings as of yet no.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Hi, yes I'm giving the machine a good 30 minutes to warm up, I haven't changed any of the advanced LCC settings as of yet no.


 OK. 30 minutes is long enough. Decrease the temp and see how it goes. But those default parameters on the LCC are very wild and aggressive.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> OK. 30 minutes is long enough. Decrease the temp and see how it goes. But those default parameters on the LCC are very wild and aggressive.


 I will have another look at the document and see what I need to do.

Its been fun today, I have so much more extraction power it would seem, the barista pro used to do well with darker roasts so I used one of my go to decafs on the Lelit today, the first shot was 33 seconds at 95c at it was one of those throat scratcher astringent cups. I lowered the temp to 92c and waiting using the + icon to see when the boiler was actually at 92c. This time the astringency was gone but it was still bitter.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> 92c and waiting using the + icon to see when the boiler was actually at 92c. This time the astringency was gone but it was still bitter.


 Try without pre-infusion, see how it goes.

If not, try lowering to 89 and see how it goes.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Try without pre-infusion, see how it goes.
> 
> If not, try lowering to 89 and see how it goes.


 Will do and thanks for the help 🙏


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## Caffeinated_fiend

@MediumRoastSteam Have you ever had Coffee Compass Sweet Bourbon? That is what I have currently resting, sat at 7 days right now. Just wondered if you'd ever had these beans before and if so could offer a starting setting for the Lelit. I drink black Americanos, on the Sage I always ran a ratio of 1:2.5 but have mainly been using 1:2 so far on the Lelit.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - I had them. But that was a few years ago. My tastebuds changed since... I much prefer lighter roasts.

That's quite an easy bean to dial in, and it should look amazing with a naked portafilter 

I'm not a fan of Americanos, coffee wise. For me, it's either a straight espresso or a flat white.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Had a mess around again with the decaf and put the machine at 90c and turned off the steam preinfusion, took about 8-9 seconds for coffee to start and looked very nice. 36g out in 33 seconds. This was fine as an Americano, no bitterness or astringency and I got about as much as you can from this decaf.

One thing that have noticed since pressing the + to see the actual temp is that say if I make a coffee at 90c then go to make another I will be waiting for the temp to cool down as it seems to spike up to 97c and it takes a fair while to come back down. Is this what you were talking about earlier @MediumRoastSteam?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> it seems to spike up to 97c and it takes a fair while to come back down. Is this what you were talking about earlier @MediumRoastSteam?


 Well, I'll say again&#8230; 😉

key in @DavecUK's settings&#8230; 😉


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Well, I'll say again&#8230; 😉
> 
> key in @DavecUK's settings&#8230; 😉


 How long do you tend to have to wait between shots for your temperature to stabilise back to the number you have it set to?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> How long do you tend to have to wait between shots for your temperature to stabilise back to the number you have it set to?


 There you go:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=810985&embedComment=810985&embedDo=findComment


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Well @MediumRoastSteamI tried to get into the advanced settings and although I read that both buttons needed to be pressed one must have popped back as it said preset done and factory reset I think.

I switched it back on and it poured water through the group head for a while, for some reason now though the pump doesn't generate pressure anymore when brewing 😵


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Well @MediumRoastSteamI tried to get into the advanced settings and although I read that both buttons needed to be pressed one must have popped back as it said preset done and factory reset I think.
> 
> I switched it back on and it poured water through the group head for a while, for some reason now though the pump doesn't generate pressure anymore when brewing 😵


 purging water through the group is normal. It's written in the manual. And welcome to the club, we all did it when getting into advanced settings. You'll likely only do it once.

Now, you saying the pump not generating pressure when brewing... What does that mean?


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> purging water through the group is normal. It's written in the manual. And welcome to the club, we all did it when getting into advanced settings. You'll likely only do it once.
> 
> Now, you saying the pump not generating pressure when brewing... What does that mean?


 Apologies, after the reset I tried to make a coffee using the same settings as before but it choked, so I went coaser, choked, coaser choked and looking at the manometer there is no pressure being generated in the puck. After about 30 seconds I stopped the shots and I was getting drips. On removing the puck it had dry parts.

So I went for a 6 seconds pre-infusion but again no pressure being generated in the portafilter.


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## MediumRoastSteam

hang on. Something is not right. Resetting the machine should not influence on how coarse or fine you grind. When the machine was dumping water through the group after reset, did you let it finish the whole cycle?

Do this:

- Put the blind basket on your portafilter;
- *Switch off pre-infusion on button 1;*
- Hit button 1;
- Does the manometer needle move? It should start moving after 3-4 seconds and get up to 9-10 bar after 6 seconds or so.
- Let it do that for approx. 20s
- Hit button 1 again to stop.

A video would be great.

Please report back.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> hang on. Something is not right. Resetting the machine should not influence on how coarse or fine you grind. When the machine was dumping water through the group after reset, did you let it finish the whole cycle?
> 
> Do this:
> 
> - Put the blind basket on your portafilter;
> - *Switch off pre-infusion on button 1;*
> - Hit button 1;
> - Does the manometer needle move? It should start moving after 3-4 seconds and get up to 9-10 bar after 6 seconds or so.
> - Let it do that for approx. 20s
> - Hit button 1 again to stop.
> 
> A video would be great.
> 
> Please report back.


 So, I think that I have figured it out.

When I refilled the water tank I think that the tubing must have kinked or something along those lines, I do now have the filter attached to the machine. I took the tubes out, topped up the tank and then everything is working again. Last shot was pulling just over 9 to a little under, water was dispersing before so I assumed it was ok. That's the only thing I can think it could be.


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## MediumRoastSteam

yeah - that would make sense.

All good then! And remember: + / - buttons must be pressed together and you MUST wait until you see the first advanced setting (kCp I think). 🙂


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## DavecUK

@Caffeinated_fiend This link may be useful as well, it has all the settings and the various links are to MS Sway, so smartphone viewable.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/lelit-elizabeth/


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## Caffeinated_fiend

I will be looking to give @DavecUKsettings a go tomorrow as I ran out of time today due to "hosegate" I need to get a funnel of some kind as it is a pain pulling out the tank every time.

I did manage to get into the advanced settings without factory resetting which was nice.

It was strange to see the pump on time for steam set to 1 and for bloom 2.

I changed the LCC to show actual temperature which was nice, I noticed after pulling a shot at 93c the pump overshoots to 103c and takes some time to get back down. However a quick flush which is what I would always do anyway soon had the temperature back down to 93c. It's strange after the flush it goes back down to 93c and then drops to 92c so the boiler comes on and it goes back up to 96c and the cycle repeats. It didn't stay on 93c for a huge amount of time.

One other thing I forgot is that even when the machine is cold it takes Jedi master like skills to clean the machine without leaving the smear style marks. I'm wetting it with a soft cloth and cleaning with a micro fibre.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - you won't see the bonkers overshoot if you use Dave's settings. 😉

You can use a microfibre cloth moisten with distilled water (like, condensed steam) followed by a dry cloth. Best done when the machine is cold.

if you want to make it super sparkly, 75% alcohol gel also does he trick very nicely. I use that sometimes. In fact, in Brazil, 96% alcohol is a box standard household cleaning product. Every household has it. Works wonders on many things. Bleach is hardly ever used, apart from toilets.

glass cleaner also works, from Halfords, not sure about the cheap nonsense from supermarkets.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

@MediumRoastSteamthank you I will grab some.

Last night I changed my settings to the ones recommended by @DavecUKand this morning the temperature was so much more stable and the recovery rate is insane compared to the Lelit factory settings I was amazed.

First shot of the morning


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Just out of interest, when it comes to pressure on the manometer what influences this, is it just grind size? Would a tighter grind push more pressure through the portafilter?

At the moment I am using Coffee Compass Sweet Bourbon 🥃 18g in 36g out in about 30-33s, no preinfusion. When the pump kicks in the manometer will go to a touch over nine and then towards the end maybe go just under. I noticed on some YouTube videos that the pressure was more around 11 or so and wondered why?

One thing I also noticed is that on my Niche I am lower than I used to be with the Barista Pro, for this Sweet Boubon I am at just around 20 and I very recently cleaned out the Niche so I'm pretty sure it's right on with the calibration.

I also may end up taking out the filter as I think it is making a little noise when the pump is in use which wasn't happening before.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - the pressure will decrease approx. 0.5bar throughout the shot. It's normal.

The pressure is regulated by the expansion valve, which, in your case, is set to a "touch over nine" (same as mine).

You can adjust it to whatever you want.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Morning, does a ridged 18g VST basket fit in the standard Lelit portafilter? I don't need a bottomless for that? Is it only the 20-22g that require that?

I have been messing around with dose on the included IMS, I have tried 16-18g so far but when looking in the manual it states 14g for the included basket.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Morning, does a ridged 18g VST basket fit in the standard Lelit portafilter? I don't need a bottomless for that? Is it only the 20-22g that require that?
> 
> I have been messing around with dose on the included IMS, I have tried 16-18g so far but when looking in the manual it states 14g for the included basket.


 So: VST Ridged or Ridgeless...Will fit. VST 20g will fit too (I think this was discussed before). VST 22g.... I don't think so.

Ignore the manual. Believe in what you see. If you can put 18g of coffee and the compressed coffee is roughly below the ridge, you are good.

Alternatively, do the 10p coin test.:

- Grind, dose, tamp; put a 10p coin on top of the puck. Lock the PF. Remove the PF. Remove the coin carefully. Is there a deep indent? If so, decrease your dose. If a light indent, that's perfect. If no indent, increase your dose.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So: VST Ridged or Ridgeless...Will fit. VST 20g will fit too (I think this was discussed before). VST 22g.... I don't think so.
> 
> Ignore the manual. Believe in what you see. If you can put 18g of coffee and the compressed coffee is roughly below the ridge, you are good.
> 
> Alternatively, do the 10p coin test.:
> 
> - Grind, dose, tamp; put a 10p coin on top of the puck. Lock the PF. Remove the PF. Remove the coin carefully. Is there a deep indent? If so, decrease your dose. If a light indent, that's perfect. If no indent, increase your dose.


 Thank you again @MediumRoastSteamI have ordered a ridged 18 VST to have a play with.

I used the steam wand 3-4 times this morning and whilst the missus was in the kitchen she noticed the steam wand was dripping, there was a fair bit of water on the counter top. I tightened the plastic now but it felt like I had closed it properly?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> a ridged


 Why ridged? Usually, for home, ridgeless is best, as you pop-in/pop-out very easily.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> I used the steam wand 3-4 times this morning and whilst the missus was in the kitchen she noticed the steam wand was dripping, there was a fair bit of water on the counter top. I tightened the plastic now but it felt like I had closed it properly?


 It is good you say this. Because, the exact same happens to me. I always, ever, closed very gently. So, I keep doing the same, and after a few minutes, the steam wand starts spluttering a bit. I then close it very gently again, almost as if after closing it, the force of the steam pushed it open. Once I do the second time, it then remains shut.

I even went to the trouble of removing the steam tap and inspecting it - it's a very simple thing to do. It's as good as new.

So, I don't know... Maybe I am too gentle when closing it? And, if that's the case, I'd rather keep doing as such, as it's better safer than sorry. There are a few cases here of tap over tightening, so, it might be that Lelit should invest on a better tap valve? 🙂

related:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/page/32/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=795164&embedComment=795164&embedDo=findComment#comment-795164

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/61595-lelit-elizabeth-steam-wand-not-fully-closing/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=856465&embedComment=856465&embedDo=findComment#comment-856465


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Why ridged? Usually, for home, ridgeless is best, as you pop-in/pop-out very easily.


 I meant ridgeless 😵



MediumRoastSteam said:


> It is good you say this. Because, the exact same happens to me. I always, ever, closed very gently. So, I keep doing the same, and after a few minutes, the steam wand starts spluttering a bit. I then close it very gently again, almost as if after closing it, the force of the steam pushed it open. Once I do the second time, it then remains shut.
> 
> I even went to the trouble of removing the steam tap and inspecting it - it's a very simple thing to do. It's as good as new.
> 
> So, I don't know... Maybe I am too gentle when closing it? And, if that's the case, I'd rather keep doing as such, as it's better safer than sorry. There are a few cases here of tap over tightening, so, it might be that Lelit should invest on a better tap valve? 🙂


 Right well I will keep closing it gently and put it over the drip tray, wife said the boiler made a spluttering noise and the wand was dripping. I haven't thought about it before when closing.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> wife said the boiler made a spluttering noise and the wand was dripping.


 Yep. I know exactly what you mean.


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## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It is good you say this. Because, the exact same happens to me. I always, ever, closed very gently. So, I keep doing the same, and after a few minutes, the steam wand starts spluttering a bit. I then close it very gently again, almost as if after closing it, the force of the steam pushed it open. Once I do the second time, it then remains shut.
> 
> I even went to the trouble of removing the steam tap and inspecting it - it's a very simple thing to do. It's as good as new.
> 
> So, I don't know... Maybe I am too gentle when closing it? And, if that's the case, I'd rather keep doing as such, as it's better safer than sorry. There are a few cases here of tap over tightening, so, it might be that Lelit should invest on a better tap valve? 🙂


 With that type of positive pressure valve, I do the same as you so the seat will last 10+ years or more. Most people close them tightly, which is bad. The reason it needs a little tighten if you close it very gently (as you should).... after a few minutes is the metal contracts as it cools and the valve opens slightly. Just close with the same gentle pressure, and it won't leak again.

This is why in the "olden days", Baristas always put a milk jug under the wand...then they would see it dripping later and do a second gentle closing of the valve

With more and more "no-compression" valves in use, the old ways and reasons have been forgotten.


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## MediumRoastSteam

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I then close it very gently again, almost as if after closing it, the force of the steam pushed it open. Once I do the second time, it then remains shut.





DavecUK said:


> The reason it needs a little tighten if you close it very gently (as you should).... after a few minutes is the metal contracts as it cools and the valve opens slightly. Just close with the same gentle pressure, and it won't leak again.


 For the best part of a year I've been thinking I was going insane. "Surely it can just push itself open???" - I would ask myself. To the point that I thought about making an alignment mark to see if it moved!

@DavecUK - Once again, many thanks for explaining the rationale behind it all. Much appreciated!


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Surely it can just push itself open???" - I would ask myself. To the point that I thought about making an alignment mark to see if it moved!


 Hope you weren't thinking of an invisible hand!








????


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## Caffeinated_fiend

So @MediumRoastSteamI got the ridgeless 18g today and I wondered if my experiences correlated with yours.

Flow rate through the coffee is way faster on the VST, I had to go a full dot and a little on the Niche to slow down the shot.

My pressure on the manometer is less with the VST, starts at 8 and 3/4 and drops to a little over 8 towards the end of the shot. Definitely more pressure with the standard basket.

I have been using no preinfusion but thought I would compare that as well. Using a 10s steam preinfusion with the VST, nothing coming out of the spout until around 12s but then it would be around 2.5-3gs a second and would still give me about 36g in 30 seconds. Again way faster than the standard basket.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - all good. I never used the stock basket. It's in the box. Your experience seems similar to mine. The flow is faster as the VST has straight walls and more holes at the bottom. And, what does it all matter anyway? Does it taste better? Does it work for you?


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend - all good. I never used the stock basket. It's in the box. Your experience seems similar to mine. The flow is faster as the VST has straight walls and more holes at the bottom. And, what does it all matter anyway? Does it taste better? Does it work for you?


 Well it's too early to say but it was fun having a go with it, it's much easier in general with the Lelit to get a much more repeatable shot which was something I found much harder work on the sage I had previously.

One other question I have, as my machine is so new the portafilter with the standard basket is only now comfortable to close to the lock position. With the VST I'm back to not being able to as yet get to the lock position. If I used the VST for say 6 months and then switched back to the standard would that create an issue with the portafilter seal later down the line? Or is this of no concern?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> If I used the VST for say 6 months and then switched back to the standard would that create an issue with the portafilter seal later down the line? Or is this of no concern?


 The gasket has to be replaced every year or so, less frequent if you use a silicone one.

I wouldn't worry about the lock position, as long as it is locked. You should not need to lock too hard. If you are, something is not quite right. There was a thread about this, on an Elizabeth. The shower screen was too tight against the gasket, causing premature wearing out.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - found the thread and posts. Have a read:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53045-new-upgraded-lelit-on-the-block-elizabeth/?do=embed&comment=857209&embedComment=857209&embedDo=findComment


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Evening @MediumRoastSteamDoes the cafelot 8mm red gasket have a better fit with a VST basket? Easier to lock in?


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend Nope. I found pretty much the same. The difference is thet rubber gaskets go hard and bake on the group, as they are made of rubber. The silicone ones are softer and retain their shape and softness for a lot longer.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Nope. I found pretty much the same. The difference is thet rubber gaskets go hard and bake on the group, as they are made of rubber. The silicone ones are softer and retain their shape and softness for a lot longer.


 Right ok I will grab one to have on standby then, do you lock in at around 5 o'clock with the VST then also, doesn't loosen over time?


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - mine locks just roughly at 6:30 with a bottomless PF and the VST. It doesn't mean yours should be the same. As long as it's locked in, you are good. Saying that, if yours lock at 5 o clock, you are likely over tightening it.

I'm very particular with my equipment. Usually, when things change, I tend to notice. I have not noticed any changes with the silicone gasket yet. I've been using them for years. I never noticed any loosening.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend - mine locks just roughly at 6:30 with a bottomless PF and the VST. It doesn't mean yours should be the same. As long as it's locked in, you are good. Saying that, if yours lock at 5 o clock, you are likely over tightening it.
> 
> I'm very particular with my equipment. Usually, when things change, I tend to notice. I have not noticed any changes with the silicone gasket yet. I've been using them for years. I never noticed any loosening.


 Thank you, half 6 sounds about right, I put 5 but I meant 7. Mine hasn't been past the padlock yet on any of the baskets. I'm blaming the amount of coffee I drank yesterday 😂


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Random question of the day,

How stable should the pressure be on the Manometer? I have noticed what seems to be a gradual decline since owning the machine.

If I'm putting 18g in each time will there be much play between coffees? I know that the pressure declines through the shot but my starting pressure seems to have declined over time.

Does using the blank basket give you the pressure that the OPV is set to? I wonder if having the filter onto the tubing has any effect.

On the plus side I had a nice latte with the Milk Buster beans this morning. Certainly busy through the milk, puts hairs on your chest in a latte.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Random question of the day,
> 
> How stable should the pressure be on the Manometer? I have noticed what seems to be a gradual decline since owning the machine.
> 
> If I'm putting 18g in each time will there be much play between coffees? I know that the pressure declines through the shot but my starting pressure seems to have declined over time.
> 
> Does using the blank basket give you the pressure that the OPV is set to? I wonder if having the filter onto the tubing has any effect.
> 
> On the plus side I had a nice latte with the Milk Buster beans this morning. Certainly busy through the milk, puts hairs on your chest in a latte.


 Gradual decline when brewing coffee is normal. After all, it's pressure, and, if the puck is giving way to resistance gradually - so the coffee can flow through the basket - a gentle decline in pressure is absolutely normal.

when you have the blank disk when backflushing, all he pressure goes through the expansion valve, as the other outlet - the group - has been blanked off. So that's your benchmark. If you want to complicate things, water expands when hot, so if you set the OPV with a cold machine you'll get a lower reading compared to a fully warmed up machine.

for the same reason you don't see any pressure build up if there's no resistance on the group, through ground coffee or blank disk. The water simply has no resistance, and free flows.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Cleaned the shower screen today and thought while I have it I will install the silicone gasket.

The other picture shows where the portafilter fits into the group when the VST basket is being used.

I pulled a 28 second shot with 18g in the basket, pressure went up to just below 9 on the manometer and by the end of the shot was barely in 8. I'm assuming that is just the VST basket as the IMS generates that bit of extra pressure due to the shape of it.

The VST also speeds up in the second half of the shot, reminds me of my Sage machine, whereas the IMS seems to hold the same flow rate through the shot. Also my puck always sticks to the shower screen with the VST


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Also my puck always sticks to the shower screen with the VST


 Check:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56781-are-you-getting-stickystuck-pucks-please-give-me-your-feedback/?do=embed



Caffeinated_fiend said:


> The other picture shows where the portafilter fits into the group when the VST basket is being used.


 That's strange. I just checked mine. With the VST 18g and the OEM portafilter that came with the machine, it locks at 6 o'clock. With my ECM bottomless, it locks at 6:30. Are you sure you have:
- dried up and cleaned all up before fitting the new gasket;
- pushed it all the way up. Use your fingers to start with, and then lock the portafilter in, with a basket, all the way as far as it will go past 6 o'clock. This ensures the gasket is fastened and snug fit properly against the group.
- the shower screen is not tightened to the point that the dispersion plate squashes the gasket. The retention screw should only be fastened as far as the shower screen no longer spins on the dispersion plate. This is literally finger tight with a 1/4 turn to nip up.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Check:
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56781-are-you-getting-stickystuck-pucks-please-give-me-your-feedback/?do=embed
> 
> That's strange. I just checked mine. With the VST 18g and the OEM portafilter that came with the machine, it locks at 6 o'clock. With my ECM bottomless, it locks at 6:30. Are you sure you have:
> - dried up and cleaned all up before fitting the new gasket;
> - pushed it all the way up. Use your fingers to start with, and then lock the portafilter in, with a basket, all the way as far as it will go past 6 o'clock. This ensures the gasket is fastened and snug fit properly against the group.
> - the shower screen is not tightened to the point that the dispersion plate squashes the gasket. The retention screw should only be fastened as far as the shower screen no longer spins on the dispersion plate. This is literally finger tight with a 1/4 turn to nip up.


 The machine really was clean as a whistle when I changed the gasket, in fact the fit is exactly the same as with the OEM gasket. I can get the portafilter to 6 with the OEM basket as you can see in the video, however the VST most likely wouldn't go to 6 even with a lot of pressure.

The dispersion plate is tightened as you suggested.

http://caffinatedfiend.quickconnect.to/mo/sharing/ru9cZhhPy

The coffees a little old but it's all I have left at the minute.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> http://caffinatedfiend.quickconnect.to/mo/sharing/ru9cZhhPy


 Is that with the new gasket and VST basket?

Looks all good to me. One day, eventually, when you open the machine up, you may wish to increase the pressure a little. Personally, I'd just leave as is. That's very similar to what I have (maybe mine is 0.5 bar higher, if that).


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Is that with the new gasket and VST basket?
> 
> Looks all good to me. One day, eventually, when you open the machine up, you may wish to increase the pressure a little. Personally, I'd just leave as is. That's very similar to what I have (maybe mine is 0.5 bar higher, if that).


 That was with the OEM basket and new gasket, pressure is lower with VST, starts under 9 and stays just within 8 with the VST. I will have to try removing the filter as it was a little higher before I put that in. I wonder if that has any effect, I am using Tesco Ashbeck water but I put the Lelit filter in as well, you can probably hear it in the video as it wobbles about in the tank I think.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> pressure is lower with VST


 grind finer. But ultimately, don't worry about it.



Caffeinated_fiend said:


> I am using Tesco Ashbeck water but I put the Lelit filter in as wel


 I doubt the filter has any benefit in that case.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

I pulled a shot without the filter and it made no difference to pressure. Just thought I would try it, it's just strange that it was higher to begin with, maybe I'm just misremembering and it was like this from the start.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

I need to get a bottomless portafilter as my next purchase, I have noticed on my pucks that with the OEM I always seem to have a little dot in the middle that I'm guessing is channeling that isn't there with the VST.

I'm distributing from the niche, tapping it level and giving it a tap on the tamping mat to get rid of any air pockets. Next I'm using a distribution tool to get a level surface and then tamping.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Dose 18g of coffee into the VST and you'll be fine. Remember, when the shot finishes, the puck is sucked back up and will collide with the shower screen. If it tastes good, then happy days. But yes, a bottomless is handy for diagnostics and to keep things clean afterwards.



Caffeinated_fiend said:


> I pulled a shot without the filter


 I have no idea what this means (presumably without the shower screen?). And, as I said many times before, ignore the pressure for the moment and focus on what matters. You are chasing unicorns. Different flows = different pressures. The pressure will go as high as the OPV with a blind basket. When there's flow of coffee, pressure will start declining. It's just natural, as explained before.

For your own sanity, I will not comment on your "pressure" questions anymore 🙂 - Happy to help with everything else 👍


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Dose 18g of coffee into the VST and you'll be fine. Remember, when the shot finishes, the puck is sucked back up and will collide with the shower screen. If it tastes good, then happy days. But yes, a bottomless is handy for diagnostics and to keep things clean afterwards.
> 
> I have no idea what this means (presumably without the shower screen?). And, as I said many times before, ignore the pressure for the moment and focus on what matters. You are chasing unicorns. Different flows = different pressures. The pressure will go as high as the OPV with a blind basket. When there's flow of coffee, pressure will start declining. It's just natural, as explained before.
> 
> For your own sanity, I will not comment on your "pressure" questions anymore 🙂 - Happy to help with everything else 👍


 What I meant is that I removed the Lelit Filter from inside the tank and put back the little filter back on. If you remember I lost almost all pressure when I installed it and I think it was due to a kink in the tube despite not seeing one.

I have ordered the walnut bottomless so that will be interesting and potentially messy.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Had a play around with some preinfusion this morning on the VST using a light roast, set the Elizabeth to 95c and pulled the first one without pre-infusion and it came out at 26 seconds for about 38g in the cup. Had this as an Americano and it was good, orange and walnut tasting notes and it was big orange flavour in the cup.

Second drink I tested with a 7 second pre-infusion, 3 at the pump 4s steam. Same 18g dose and same grind to get a ballpark for the speed, 20s for my target weight of 36g. I went two dots finer on the niche and got my 38g out in 29s.

Its a whole different look using the VST baskets, they really do speed up especially when you add pre-infusion into the mix. Once the pump kicked its it was trickling out and then it was up to around 2gs coming out. I made this into a latte which I don't normally have but the steamer is so much fun on this machine and I can make some incredible milk compared to my barista pro. The drink also tasted good, the light roast couldn't really put a dent into the traditional latte sweet milk taste however.

Also as Dave pointed out in his review, he thought that 16g was a good dose for the OEM basket and when I dosed that this morning on some older grounds to practise my distribution I had no pin holes in the coffee, just a little shower screen indentation.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Good morning, does this look underdosed? I have some Rave fudge blend that I am using at the moment, I am dosing around 16.1 into the Niche using the standard Lelit basket, I was going to use the VST but I worried it would be very easy to over-extract with that.

Amazon lost my Bottomless portafilter and to be honest using that will hopefully be a good indicator of if it is channeling. It tasted ok but I'm at a reduced tasting ability as the kids going back to school has given us all tonsillitis from the same cold. Kids who'd av em.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - That doesn't look good. Feels to me you have too little coffee in the basket.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend - That doesn't look good. Feels to me you have too little coffee in the basket.


 Is there a good rule of thumb with regards to dose between roast types? What's the optimum way to assess dose in the basket?

Is it just the basket in that it has a wider tolerance compared to a VST which is 1g either way.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Is there a good rule of thumb with regards to dose between roast types? What's the optimum way to assess dose in the basket?
> 
> Is it just the basket in that it has a wider tolerance compared to a VST which is 1g either way.


 https://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-correct-dose-for-my-basket-t20855.html


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## Caffeinated_fiend

MediumRoastSteam said:


> https://www.home-barista.com/tips/what-correct-dose-for-my-basket-t20855.html


 I will give this a read now with a coffee, thanks @MediumRoastSteam I have just made two back to back lattes at 18g and they already look much better.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Finally got the Lelit Walnut Bottomless delivered, Amazon "lost" the first one that was sent so I thought I would post the obligatory bottomless shot. This was 18g in a VST basket of Raves fudge blend with exactly 36g coming out in 32s. A little long but was fine in a latte.

Select Original on the video as High is messed up a bit

http://Caffinatedfiend.quickconnect.to/mo/sharing/piViEBWK7

I also added the finished latte but I put a little too much air into the milk which didn't help with the heart.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Afternoon, just wondered if @DavecUKor @MediumRoastSteamhad a go to mat for the top of the espresso machine. I have been looking on Amazon but I'm worried that they might stick to the top of the machine or generate a smell when they get warm type of thing. Not exactly sure what I'm looking for.

On a side note I have been using the draper spouted jug to fill the reservoir and that has been so much easier than taking the tank out so thanks @DavecUKfor that one 🙏🏻


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - for the top of he machine in the past I've used some anti-slip nonsense from IKEA. Some use some anti slip car boot liner.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Caffeinated_fiend - I even had a look through some posts and found my own post from a while back...

(You need to search the forum more 🙂 👍)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48398-mara-x/?do=embed&comment=781903&embedComment=781903&embedDo=findComment


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