# Siemens Surpresso Compact - doesn't taste the same as my local Starbucks.. help pls.



## drgekko

Hi folks.

I'm a newbie to these forums and was hoping to find the answer I was looking for. I've become addicted to the following drink of coffee from any Starbucks store:

Double shot of espresso (Dark Espresso Roast - these are the standard beans used) with hot water filled to 2/3 of a medium sized takeout cup.

(Essentially I order an "Americano" with water upto the 2/3 point of a grande takeaway cup).

I also buy these beans and have them ground at the store, to be used in a metal mesh filter at work - I use 3 heaped tablespoons of coffee (equivalent to 3 scoops) for an average mug sized cup of coffee - tastes perfect.

Here's the problem. I purchased this 18 months ago to try to replicate the same drink:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Siemens-TK58001GB-Surpresso-Compact-machine/dp/B001C6QPAU

I select the maximum strength on the hottest setting - then I select 2 shots of espresso and simply add water to fill my mug. Unfortunately the resulting drink tastes quite bitter and acidic, quite medicinal in fact. It's not smooth at all like the drink I order in the store nor enjoy at work. I'm so fed up with this that I'm seriously considering selling the machine and simply enjoying filter coffee at home. Saying that, if anyone wants an espresso or latte, it's fine. Just the diluting process is problematic.

Any tips please????

Thanks!


----------



## Glenn

Try adding the water first before extracting the espresso.

That may solve some of the bitterness.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Blimey, where to start?? There is no way a 'bean to cup' machine can replicate what a several thousand pound commercial espresso machine can produce which is why places like Starbucks spend so much dosh on their kit. Also, have you cleaned out your Siemens? I'm not familiar with it but it might be gunged up with coffee oils residue which can seriously taint the taste. Check the handbook and see what it says about cleaning. If you can, a backflush could be a good idea.


----------



## Yes Row

Welcome

If you lurke and learn you will get some great tips but beware you may get upgradeitus to discover alternative tastes and flavours. You are trying to replicate a brand if coffee that it not too highly thought if here, but a simple improvement could be to add the espresso to the hot water.

Good luck


----------



## drgekko

The Systemic Kid said:


> Blimey, where to start?? There is no way a 'bean to cup' machine can replicate what a several thousand pound commercial espresso machine can produce which is why places like Starbucks spend so much dosh on their kit. Also, have you cleaned out your Siemens? I'm not familiar with it but it might be gunged up with coffee oils residue which can seriously taint the taste. Check the handbook and see what it says about cleaning. If you can, a backflush could be a good idea.


I guess there was not much point buying it then!! :-(

The handbook mentions using cleaning tablets during a service mode every few months - and I've kept on top of this.

I shall do what a couple of you have suggested and add the espresso to the water (why would this help incidentally?)

And also, what's in the industrial kit? Is it a lot higher pressured to extract greater flavour from the bean? Or are the grinders really heavy duty? I As I said, it's likely I'll sell the machine and just enjoy filter coffee instead as I hardly drink espresso at home any more.


----------



## Glenn

Think about how you run a bath.

Do you;

A) Sit in the bath and have someone throw buckets of hot water at you? (and if so, what is your reaction?)

or

B) Run the bath and then when ready slip on in (feeling rather relaxed)

Espresso has feelings too and if you treat it like A then it will scream, break down, throw a tantrum and all you will get it bitterness and a very unhappy espresso

If you let it slip into the hot water (B) then all the oils remain intact and it doesn't complain, thereby treating you to a better taste experience.

Make of this what you will but try both and see the difference.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

drgekko said:


> And also, what's in the industrial kit? Is it a lot higher pressured to extract greater flavour from the bean? Or are the grinders really heavy duty? I As I said, it's likely I'll sell the machine and just enjoy filter coffee instead as I hardly drink espresso at home any more.


Commercial machines are designed to produce shot after shot of repeatable quality once they have been set up and dialled in. Water is kept to the set temp and the pressure is also carefully managed with the aim of getting the best out of the bean. Shame Starbucks use over-roasted ones. Grinders have to be heavy duty given they may be getting through upwards of four kilos a day. Have a look at the brewed coffee section on the forum - loads of useful info and advice if you like filter coffee. Have you tried any of the alternative brew methods?


----------



## MWJB

drgekko said:


> I select the maximum strength on the hottest setting - then I select 2 shots of espresso and simply add water to fill my mug. Unfortunately the resulting drink tastes quite bitter and acidic, quite medicinal in fact. It's not smooth at all like the drink I order in the store nor enjoy at work. I'm so fed up with this that I'm seriously considering selling the machine and simply enjoying filter coffee at home. Saying that, if anyone wants an espresso or latte, it's fine. Just the diluting process is problematic.
> 
> Any tips please????
> 
> Thanks!


Have you tried reducing the strength/temp settings? Do you taste the double shot before adding the hot water, to see if it is acidic before dilution?


----------



## drgekko

Hi folks.

I tried all the above advice and I hate the coffee I'm drinking - my £10 Asda filter machine at work produces better results for my taste buds.

So I'm selling the machine (sold in fact, just waiting for payment).

I'll still continue purchasing my favourite beans (Starbucks Dark Espresso Bold - what they use in their machines) and having them ground at the store. Now I need to know what to purchase.... an espresso machine (like Gaggia Classic) or a decent filter machine (I'm reading the name "Aeropress" on these forums frequently).

EDIT - just checked out the videos on Aeropress site - looks like a chemistry experiement!! I'm NOT willing to make coffee like that at home. I don't like the of it, I'm sorry if that offends some. Unless someone can convince me otherwise.

Mods - please move this post to the appropriate forum.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Gaggia Classic is a great way to begin - had two for over ten years - one at home - one at work. Never let me down. You can pick them up pretty cheap second hand - around £60-£70 - plenty about but, if you are thinking about getting one, read up first. Buying second hand makes sense as, if you decide to upgrade, you can sell it on for more or less what you paid for it. If you buy via the forum, the machine will have been cherished. As for Aeropress, it may look a bit of a faff but it's really straightforward and makes stonking coffee. If that not your cup of tea, sorry, coffee!! - have a look at a clever coffee dripper. Only costs £12.00 and can make excellent coffee.


----------



## drgekko

The Systemic Kid said:


> Gaggia Classic is a great way to begin - had two for over ten years - one at home - one at work. Never let me down. You can pick them up pretty cheap second hand - around £60-£70 - plenty about but, if you are thinking about getting one, read up first. Buying second hand makes sense as, if you decide to upgrade, you can sell it on for more or less what you paid for it. If you buy via the forum, the machine will have been cherished. As for Aeropress, it may look a bit of a faff but it's really straightforward and makes stonking coffee. If that not your cup of tea, sorry, coffee!! - have a look at a clever coffee dripper. Only costs £12.00 and can make excellent coffee.


Thanks for your advice... I just don't get it though. If I can make great coffee with aparatus for as little as £12, why on earth would I even consider the Gaggia Classic?? Is it a looks/engineering thing? ie. any car can get you from A to B but driving in a 911 compared to a Polo is rather different and attracts the price tag?

EDIT

Ok, just read the intro sticky and about the various machines and variation in technology - very interesting, now making sense. Just watched the video for the Londinium I... wow!!!! Looks awesome!!! I would just love to taste an espresso made with that!!! Anyone in the West Midlands who has one of these beautiful devices???


----------



## Glenn

Completely different brewing methods.

Gaggia Classic produces espresso

Clever Coffee Dripper is immersion brewing


----------



## drgekko

Glenn said:


> Completely different brewing methods.
> 
> Gaggia Classic produces espresso
> 
> Clever Coffee Dripper is immersion brewing


I understand about espresso but if I enjoy having a morning filter coffee, what would you recommend? A separate filter coffee machine, aeropress or clever coffee dripper? (And what differences in taste should I expect?)


----------



## Glenn

I like the simplicity of the Aeropress. It is a good way to enjoy filter coffee. Pair it with an Able Disk and you will have years of fuss free coffee making at your fingertips.


----------



## drgekko

Glenn said:


> I like the simplicity of the Aeropress. It is a good way to enjoy filter coffee. Pair it with an Able Disk and you will have years of fuss free coffee making at your fingertips.


I'm slowly warming to this idea - any recommendations from where to order these? (amazon perhaps?)


----------



## Gangstarrrrr

drgekko said:


> I'm slowly warming to this idea - any recommendations from where to order these? (amazon perhaps?)


I found the best price when I got mine was eBay.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

drgekko said:


> I'm slowly warming to this idea - any recommendations from where to order these? (amazon perhaps?)


Got my Aeropress from Cream Supplies - very good price too - delivery reasonable and quick. They also sell the Able steel disks which do away with the paper filters and give a brighter taste to the coffee. If you do go for the Able filter - go for the fine one. Don't worry about the blurb saying its more delicate (which is true) - it's still very robust.

Worth considering other brew methods too - provides different taste characteristics. I use a syphon which is a gas to use - bit like a school chemistry experiment and produces wonderful soft subtle coffee - great with lighter roasts.


----------



## drgekko

Just placed an order for the following from Cream Supplies:

Aeropress: http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1203

Tote Bag: http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1612

Stainless steel fine filter: http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=6002

Looking forward to conducting some lab experiements at home! Lol.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Nice one - give the forum some feedback on the Aeropress/Able filter combo.


----------



## drgekko

Sure will. I've also purchased a Gaggia Classic from one of our forum members over on classifieds for £80 delivered - now need to get some accessories for dealing with the mess that's about to ensue! Lol. Mats for splash etc?

I've watched the Londinium video at least 5 times now... it just looks stunning... and the CEO's eyes and passion in his voice are so compelling! My sights are set... One Day Megatron! One day! Lol.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

drgekko said:


> Sure will. I've also purchased a Gaggia Classic from one of our forum members over on classifieds for £80 delivered - now need to get some accessories for dealing with the mess that's about to ensue! Lol. Mats for splash etc?.


Excellent - shows why the forum is the place to pick up cherished kit as well as advice and guidance. Pair of scales, tamper and mat - have a look at Made by Knock for tamper and mat combo - very good quality and reasonable price too. Suggest some descaler - e.g. Puly descaler and some backflushing cleaner too - Puly Caff. Have you got a grinder?? Enjoy your set up.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

drgekko said:


> I've watched the Londinium video at least 5 times now... it just looks stunning... .


Looks even better in the flesh!!


----------



## series530

To take up on the point of cheap or expensive kit ....

I just want to add, in this discussion, that many of us treat coffee as a hobby and not just a drink. In the same way that a rusty Lada will get a driver from A to B, a Ferrari will take a car enthusiast from A to B while giving the sensation of enjoyment and a once in a life time experience. It's just the same with coffee - and this is coming from somebody who only ever took ground coffee from a tin six months ago thinking that it was a perfectly acceptable drink. Six months later and that coffee from a tin tastes awful and, sorry to say it, so does Starbucks coffee.... in my humble opinion.

I started out with a classic and have moved through to a half decent grinder and now a more respectable coffee machine. It's been a ride, it's been frustrating at times, its depleted my retirement fund but, boy oh boy, its been worth it: I can now appreciate a really good coffee, I can now tell a drink which isn't fit for the compost heap and a thousand variations in between. Reading, practising, learning from others, tasting, trying different roasts... all of these things open us up to what coffee can be and what it so often isn't.

So yes, why spend money on a decent machine when a cheap one makes coffee as well ? ..... simple..... once you taste and appreciate really nice coffee which is made properly, the question answers itself.

.... well, that's my two pence worth anyway!


----------



## drgekko

The Systemic Kid said:


> ...Pair of scales, tamper and mat - have a look at Made by Knock for tamper and mat combo - very good quality and reasonable price too. Suggest some descaler - e.g. Puly descaler and some backflushing cleaner too - Puly Caff. Have you got a grinder?? Enjoy your set up.


Oh boy! Now my wife's gonna go mad at me!! Scales, tamper, mat...My brain's hurting now... descaler? Backflush cleaner? I just wanted to make some espresso next week! Lol. Will check out the site and build up gradually.



series530 said:


> To take up on the point of cheap or expensive kit ....
> 
> I just want to add, in this discussion, that many of us treat coffee as a hobby and not just a drink. In the same way that a rusty Lada will get a driver from A to B, a Ferrari will take a car enthusiast from A to B while giving the sensation of enjoyment and a once in a life time experience. It's just the same with coffee - and this is coming from somebody who only ever took ground coffee from a tin six months ago thinking that it was a perfectly acceptable drink. Six months later and that coffee from a tin tastes awful and, sorry to say it, so does Starbucks coffee.... in my humble opinion.
> 
> I started out with a classic and have moved through to a half decent grinder and now a more respectable coffee machine. It's been a ride, it's been frustrating at times, its depleted my retirement fund but, boy oh boy, its been worth it: I can now appreciate a really good coffee, I can now tell a drink which isn't fit for the compost heap and a thousand variations in between. Reading, practising, learning from others, tasting, trying different roasts... all of these things open us up to what coffee can be and what it so often isn't.
> 
> So yes, why spend money on a decent machine when a cheap one makes coffee as well ? ..... simple..... once you taste and appreciate really nice coffee which is made properly, the question answers itself.
> 
> .... well, that's my two pence worth anyway!


I do understand, I've learnt much more in the last few days and totally get it from the motoring point of view. I'm really keen to find some tasting sessions at a specialist coffee shop and see a real Barista at work - is there such a place in the West Mildlands folks???


----------



## Yes Row

Yes Row said:


> Welcome
> 
> If you lurke and learn you will get some great tips but beware you may get upgradeitus to discover alternative tastes and flavours. You are trying to replicate a brand if coffee that it not too highly thought if here, but a simple improvement could be to add the espresso to the hot water.
> 
> Good luck


I warned you!!!! Upgradeitus strikes again

Enjoy your new toys, you are going to have fun


----------



## drgekko

The Systemic Kid said:


> Excellent - shows why the forum is the place to pick up cherished kit as well as advice and guidance. Pair of scales, tamper and mat - have a look at Made by Knock for tamper and mat combo - very good quality and reasonable price too. Suggest some descaler - e.g. Puly descaler and some backflushing cleaner too - Puly Caff. Have you got a grinder?? Enjoy your set up.


http://www.madebyknock.com/buy.html - combination tamper, mat & pot looks good - which tamper size though?

Are there alternatives to this? Would prefer a brass tamper rather than wood but hey, what do I know??!

I like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/50mm-Tamper-Knock-stainless-beech/dp/B0069ZWURG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369341100&sr=8-1&keywords=tamper+knock

and this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Knocktop-Home-Barista-Set-Knockout/dp/B0068DIUS2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1369341100&sr=8-7&keywords=tamper+knock

Shall I order them?

Just need a pair of scales now - any recommendations? (Not expensive please!!)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Classic uses standard 58mm tamper for stock portafilter baskets.


----------



## drgekko

The Systemic Kid said:


> Classic uses standard 58mm tamper for stock portafilter baskets.


Cool - see edited post above - I love the stainless steel tamper with black handle! Yeah baby! Going to get those from amazon as I got some vouchers. I've ordered the Puly stuff. Any sets of scales you'd recommend please?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Have a look on Ebay for digital jewellers scales. Cost about £5.00-£7.00. Get one with a decent wide weighing plate so you can put a small cup on it if you want to weigh shot output.


----------



## drgekko

Right - within the last 3 days, I've purchased....

Aeropress with fine stainless steel filter (£32)

Gaggia Classic (£80)

Knock Ltd. Tamper, Mat & Knocktop Set (£33)

Puly Descaler & Caff (£18)

Digital Scale (£8)

The sale of my Siemens Surpresso should cover all the above.... so here's looking forward to playing next week and letting you all know how I get on.


----------



## Glenn

That's a solid setup which will allow you to explore a range of coffees easily.

Game on!


----------



## MarkyP

what a great result... from a lay-man to convert in a matter of days!

Guys, you should be proud!!!


----------



## Anthony

The water refill light is permanently on stopping me using it.. Help no coffee for 3 days now


----------



## Dia

Anthony said:


> The water refill light is permanently on stopping me using it.. Help no coffee for 3 days now


----------



## Rob1

I used to go to Starbucks all the time but haven't set foot in there for years. Last I had was a double shot about 5 years ago one morning out of sheer despearation, bloody awful. Greggs is capable of producing far worse though so as far as high street coffee goes you can do a lot worse. I am still always tempted by their ridiculous syrup laden drinks though, especially eggnog lattes and black forest mocha. But you know, they're more milkshakes than coffees. When you get more and more into coffee it's easy to turn your nose up at the things you used to like on principal rather than taste. I'm probably one step away from buying syrups and the cheapest decent beans I can find.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Thread resurrection alert....


----------

