# Beans. Number of levels of flavour



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've noticed that over the last couple years that different beans and roasts/roasters will have a different number of flavours in them.

For example Italian Job will taste generally dark chocolatey / roasty and that will be it. Many of the Dark, dark roasts will be the same.i.e. Full on one flavour, usually dark chocolate but that's about it. Perfectly fine if you're into that sort of thing but a bit one dimensional IMO.

Others will have a main upfront flavour (e.g. chocolate) and will then finish with something else (e.g. Berries, orange, lime....).

I've found that there are others that have 3 levels of flavour an upfront taste, something in the middle that (usually has some mouthfeel associated with it) and there'll also be a finishing taste too.

I noticed this particularly when switching between Smokey Barn beans and Hasbeans. Smokey Barn tended to be 2 levels, HB was 3. Both roasters I really liked.

This of course could just be to my cr*p palate and a load of nonsense. But I suppose my question are does anyone else find this?

What creates the number of different flavours? Is it the bean choice or is it in the roaster/roast style?


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Yes, I get where you are coming from .... Definately the lighter roast gives more flavours .... And reckon it's the type if bean that determines what those flavours are .. But never having roasted anything, I would like a roasters opinion on it.

totally agree about lighter roasts having more flavours though ,.... Probably why lsof is the trend these days


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

Obviously each to their own, and the world would be boring if we all liked the same thing etc. but this is one of the reasons I don't enjoy dark roasts.

I am also very confused when there are tasting notes that I personally cannot believe are actually present in the coffee at that level of roast development. i.e 'Delicate peach acidity' when the coffee is incredibly dark roasted.


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Depends on the method for me .... Espresso and I favour dark roasts ... Pourover/ drip etc ... Then light roasts


----------



## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I struggle to get any "notes". The only bean that really came at me was a Yira I got ages ago, I really could taste strawberries.

I still cannot drink espresso and enjoy it so lose lots of the beans elements in the milk.

Using Casa Espresso Samaria Nicaraguan bean just now, for me very similar to last months LSOL bean, not unpleasant but a little mellow and weak for milk drinks.

I need to stick with darker roasts I feel.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Do you get more of the notes supplied with darker roasts?


----------



## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Yeah, I don't pay much attention to specific tasting notes to be honest. Generally I use a pretty crude measure, which is that coffee either tastes fruity, or it tastes chocolately/nutty.

I know I prefer lighter roasts, because of the general taste profile of light roasts, but this is because I enjoy the acidity and the fruitiness rather than liking coffee with notes of strawberry/peaches/blueberries/apples/oranges...

I once made a thread asking whether it was worth experimenting with darker roasts for brewed, general consensus seemed to be not to bother; in my experience I've never really gotten any pleasant chocolate/nutty notes from brewing dark beans... As espresso I'm not totally against something a little darker. One notable exception would be Rave's signature blend, which I really quite enjoyed as Chemex, little bitterness, despite it being darker than I'd normally go for. I'm rambling so I'll stop...


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Descriptors are often not outright 'flavours' but instead the type of acidity felt - citric (orange) , malic (apple) , tartaric (grape) etc


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Did a cupping at Cup North, with Square Mile Kilimanjaro washed 3 different ways (inc natural) and there was a big difference between fully washed and natural. Never done a cupping before and it certainly was interesting (cascara was delightful if you can include this as a 4th?)


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Sounds good Rhys. I like that kind of experimentation. I suppose I could try it at home but I rather like the idea of doing it while guided by people who know what they are doing! That was one of the things I liked about DSOL, everyone on the same bean all sharing thoughts. I'll probably sign up for LSOL soon, as now I can make decent shots without getting too much acidity, I am also moving away from dark roasts and looking for the extra dimension that Clive refers to. When I was new and using the Classic/MC2 I couldn't get on with anything lighter than med-dark. Have been moving lighter gradually ever since.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd probably echo that hotmetal. I haven't ruled out dark roasts, just the Dark dark ones. I've had some great shots from Med-dark and dark roasts. DSOL and LSOL are a great learning curve.

Med to Med-light is where I'm getting best results at the moment. Light-light I struggle with. However I'm even coming round to more naturals (which have been a bit hit and miss for me in the past).

....in 12 moths time I'm going to be saying "dark is the way forward......." and blame it on some coffee journey.  hey ho!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

risky said:


> Obviously each to their own, and the world would be boring if we all liked the same thing etc. but this is one of the reasons I don't enjoy dark roasts.
> 
> I am also very confused when there are tasting notes that I personally cannot believe are actually present in the coffee at that level of roast development. i.e 'Delicate peach acidity' when the coffee is incredibly dark roasted.





h1udd said:


> Depends on the method for me .... Espresso and I favour dark roasts ... Pourover/ drip etc ... Then light roasts


It's such a difficult area...colour is such a poor indicator of what to expect with a coffee....I'm not talking about obviously very light and very dark beans. It's very much about how you roast as well.

One of my roast sharers came over for some coffee, I said to him I have an Ethiopian Harrar roasted 2 ways, fast (12m) and one slow (15m:30s), both were exactly the same colour, but they didn't taste the same. The fast one had oils coming to the surface as spotting after around 3 weeks, the other was dry. The fast one had some blueberry, but some funk, the oher was pure blueberry pie. We even tried the slow one as espresso and long drink, fabulous....the fast one, not so good....but they were both the same colour.

I have 2 Brazilians on test...because with this 1kg Dalian roaster I can push the roasts along really fast (It go even faster than roast 2 below if desired).


Roast 1 hit 1st at 9m 30s and the roast finished at 12m 40s, no second crack heard....but as almost as dark as you can go before second starts.

Roast 2 hit 1st at 8m 40s and the roast finished at 11m 20s, no second crack heard....same level of roast as above.


Now both these Brazilians went reasonably dark, the faster roast (roast2) was drinkable, but edgy as espresso or Americano. Roast 1 was hugely better and a broader flavour with hints of almond that were absent in the first roast. if I was roasting this Brazilian again I would probably look to have times a minute or so faster than roast 1 to see if it improves further.


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Ah, now speed is something I had not even considered. Does go a long way to explain why some beans are oily and some dry ...

I really should try roasting .. No way would I ever be able to do as well as the produce from accomplished roasters, but I would learn a lot more about drinking coffee than just drinking and reading about it. Think I would appreciate the process and profiles a lot more as well.

goes off to google cheap roasters


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

h1udd said:


> I really should try roasting .. No way would I ever be able to do as well as the produce from accomplished roasters, but I would learn a lot more about drinking coffee than just drinking and reading about it. Think I would appreciate the process and profiles a lot more as well.
> 
> goes off to google cheap roasters


You might surprise yourself, although it does depend on which roaster you get!


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

It would probably Gr the gene cafe .. Gong on price point and bella barista sell it


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Factor in no more than £50 on top for a spangly project box / voltage measuring plug / power controller mod and you will have a very accomplished small roaster for not a lot of money with repeatable results. As Dave sais above definately can surprise yourself in what you can accidently / on purpose achieve and the differences in the roasts ( it does however open up a whole new world of variables and things to learn)

If buying from BB it does come with a cracking book written by Dave with some profiles to follow and sporadically Steve @BB get roast information onto the website via Marko for their bulk buys as a pointer which can be quite helpful as well.

It does mean of course if you run out of rested beans you have only yourself to blame 

John


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Project box ? Measuring plugs ? ... Hmmm looks like I have a bit of reading to do


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

johnealey said:


> Factor in no more than £50 on top for a spangly project box / voltage measuring plug / power controller mod and you will have a very accomplished small roaster for not a lot of money with repeatable results. As Dave sais above definately can surprise yourself in what you can accidently / on purpose achieve and the differences in the roasts ( it does however open up a whole new world of variables and things to learn)
> 
> If buying from BB it does come with a cracking book written by Dave with some profiles to follow and sporadically Steve @BB get roast information onto the website via Marko for their bulk buys as a pointer which can be quite helpful as well.
> 
> ...


There are some very nice power controllers about now...at the time I had to use a varilight dimmer (which worked/works very well), but there are 4000W units available on ebay now for very cheap money. The one problem with e-bay units might be controllability as you need quite fine power control, but a lower ohm value variable pot can always be substituted on these cheaper Chinese units. I have actually ordered one as a plaything from china, to see how they are.


----------

