# Londinium R vs ECM Synchronika, the big decision!



## pedg (Apr 11, 2017)

First of all, many thanks to all who replied to my last thread on here (https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?37373-ECM-Synchronika-Profitec-700-or-Profitec-800-Lever-Machine-Your-thoughts-please!), this was much appreciated, and particular thanks to @dfk41 and @Snakehips.

I've narrowed it down to the ECM Synchronika and the Londinium R, and am likely to take the plunge on one or the other in the near future. Both the best available at that price range but 2 very different machines. Can anyone point me in the direction of any good E61/DB vs Londinium threads and even better, has anyone had a lot of experience using both. Which one did you prefer and why?

I have heard that the Londinium is a 'game changer', and the quality of the coffee produced is over and above that of a pump-fed machine, but on the other hand, ECM/QM/Rocket/La Marzocco/San Remo etc seem to sell plenty of pump fed machines, and there aren't very many options for good quality lever machines, as they seem much less popular. There must be a reason for this, but I really don't know what it is, and from what i've been reading, it should be the other way round if some of the reviews of the Londinium are anything to go by, but it isn't. This is what is making me think twice about jumping in with 2 feet for a lever machine.

Is anyone able to shed any light on this? I'd be really interested to heard from someone who has owned both and used both in anger, and any specific reasons for choosing one over the other.

I've also heard that the Londinium can produce 'commercial quality espresso' at home. This for me is neither here nor there as I can produce better espresso than 90% of coffee shops can using my Sage Duo Temp Pro! It isn't too often I go into a coffee shop and am wowed by the quality of the coffee...One of the reasons I like to make it at home. The most recent exception was at a coffee house called https://espressonisten.de/ in Berlin. They use a Slayer, which was super but well out of my price range!

Many thanks again in advance for any replies.

Whichever I choose I'll be sure to post a review on here after I have used it for a while and gotten used to how it works. Either way, both will produce an espresso of a much higher quality than im used to with the Sage.

Cheers. GP


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

This is a difficult question to answer as I doubt any have had the machines side by side. I have had levers up against Profitec 700 and Orchestrale Nota which are both high end machines. It is subjective to say which is best as that is based on your own taste test etc. A pump machine forces water through a puck at a set pressure. A lever forces water into the group then when you release the spring, it is spring pressure that pulls the shot. This gives a much gentler extraction and falls away as the spring returns home, so you would really need to taste them. Personally I prefer the lever taste.

Interesting that a lot of Sage DB owners lower the pressure down to try and pull 6 bar shots.

Volumetrics are fine when they work but you are relying on the shot prep being right, the grinder producing uniformity and every time you change beans you change setting. In a commercial setting this is fine but it could mean you find it hard to produce the same shot with an hours gap!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

People who have levers . will tell you nothing touches em, and the lever crowd is a sizeable and vocal one on here .

Whether the new Londinium is a game changer who knows , slayer and Lm have all said something similar about their premium products at some point, are they all right









There is a joy to using and owning a lever that can be hard to understand unless you have used one .

So where are you based , pretty sure someone will be near you with a Lever . Id try one out if you can .


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am completely on the side of the levers, however as Mrboots2u says above it is a really sensible idea to have a go on one before buying, I personally have a gs3 mp and a Londinium-r I know which one I prefer and that's the Londinium, however I am not you and your preference could be different. If you are anywhere near Swindon, then you are welcome to come and try the L-R.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm guessing the poster is in the Hull area, if that helps?


----------



## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Hard to beat the joy of ownership of a londinium, and i say that despite just selling one. In terms of taste the best thing to do is have play with one


----------



## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Unless you have specific requirements like low pressure or massively long shots i think they're an excellent choice as a home machine


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

As was said on the last thread, and this thread. You need to try them both and decide which is best for you.

It would take a lot for me to change my L1 but I'm sure that a lot of pump machine users would say the same about their setup.

You are welcome to come and try my L1 if youre ever in the Sheffield area. Bear in mind that this is the old L1 so you would get a good idea of using a lever and the results it produces. If you went for the new version the results would be better (not sure how much better as I've not sampled the new model).

An alternative would be to pop in to Foundrys coffee shop in Sheffield where they have an L2 (or is it an L3 ?). Foundry sell the Londinuim range too.


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Foundry's café machine is an LIII

One of the reasons oft quoted as to why commercial establishments are more pump than lever is time taken as you do need to wait until the lever has returned to its resting place otherwise be prepared to be covered in hot coffee grounds.

A 2, 3 etc group pump machine will most often be set to dispense by a set time / volume / weight and once finished dispensing can have its portafilter reloaded and cycled again thus potentially quicker than a lever setup of the same number of groups.

Whilst speed may be of the essence in some commercial environments in the home the difference is moot (if you want to see someone rapidly producing espresso based drinks using Levers take a look





 at a Dritan Alsela you tube vid, thinking just about speed)

Echoing the above you really need to try the options yourself as no one has your tastebuds. Having said that through, levers for me all the way and yes do have a couple of pump machines, one small / one commercial rotary pump volumetric beast.

Would I go back to a pump as a main machine? no as I cannot see any benefit, personally, to do so. The LII is plumbed in / filtered so makes no discernable noise in operation with the exception of the sound of the extracted coffee hitting the bottom of the cup which is weirdly quite satisfying ( the Gaggia G105 is also silent-ish only the noise of the boiler and the operator pulling the lever down).

Horses for courses but given the amount of money involved could be an expensive error if not tried first (could well be someone near you that could offer to try theirs, pump or lever)

Best of luck on your journey, keep us posted









John


----------

