# DTP Owners Club



## joey24dirt

I've noticed that there's a bit of a DB owners club going on so thought a DTP club could be useful. Maybe use this as a place to share hints and tips. I know it's a fairly basic machine but they all still have little quirks. I'll start by posting a pic of my set up. Chrome DTP with dose control pro grinder. Please excuse my horrible kitchen walls. This is the last room left to renovate


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## Rakesh

Heres my DTP setup, coupled with the SJ this thing is seriously impressive!


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## joey24dirt

Looks great @Rakesh I've been looking at possibly replacing my grinder but money is a little tight at the moment


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## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> Looks great @Rakesh I've been looking at possibly replacing my grinder but money is a little tight at the moment


Yeah, I bought a similar grinder but very quickly upgraded and was very shocked at the difference it can make. The DTP is a very good espresso machine albeit due to the lack of info on them out there compared to the classic or silvia can be quite daunting for anyone considering a first machine. Hopefully this thread can offer more insight into what this machine can do!


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## Slates71

Great thread.. I'm new to the scene and have ordered a DTP and smart grinder pro so should find this thread very useful.... @Rakesh ..... Love the coffee cups!


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## joey24dirt

Little bit of action with the naked pf last night. I took a video also so might upload that in a bit.


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## Rakesh

Looks quality that joey, where did you get that little dosing funnel from in your set up pic.


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## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Looks quality that joey, where did you get that little dosing funnel from in your set up pic.


Tesco!! It's on old pot of mixed spice haha. I just cut it down to fit. I warmed up the edge of it with a lighter and pushed it into the basket so it formed to the shape and is a perfect fit. Thrifty over here


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## Beth71

DTP and Mignon for me. Still lots to learn, but enjoying the journey







Still coveting your naked PF Joey


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## Rakesh

@JimBean1 @filthynines care to share your DTP setup?


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## joey24dirt

Beth71 said:


> DTP and Mignon for me. Still lots to learn, but enjoying the journey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still coveting your naked PF Joey


Aw man I'm getting pretty desperate for a mignon now. Have you gone from a sage grinder to the mignon?

Ah yes the naked pf. Might have opened up a gap in the market. Shame I couldn't get hold of a load at cost price to mod for everyone.


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## Beth71

joey24dirt said:


> Aw man I'm getting pretty desperate for a mignon now. Have you gone from a sage grinder to the mignon?


I have, yeah. I kept the Sage as I drink quite a lot of brewed coffee too, so I still use it for that.


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## joey24dirt

So would you say it's definitely made a difference using the mignon with the DTP @Beth71 ?


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## Beth71

I've only had the Mignon a couple of weeks so still properly getting to grips with dialling it in and getting used to the differences between it and the Sage, but, on the basis of the short time I've had it, yep, I think so. Shots definitely seem a bit more consistent and just generally 'better'. It's also just a lot more solid than the Sage. I found the Sage struggled a bit with some decaf beans I had when grinding for espresso and some lighter roasts - so far, no such qualms about the Mignon.


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## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> Little bit of action with the naked pf last night. I took a video also so might upload that in a bit.


Wow look at that lovely golden goodness!


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## joey24dirt

That's great thanks @Beth71 I'll have to keep my eyes open for a good deal on one


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## joey24dirt

JimBean1 said:


> Wow look at that lovely golden goodness!


Looks nice doesn't it. Still having a few little spurts where I'm not fully distributed so still need to work on that.


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## JimBean1

Rakesh said:


> @JimBean1 @filthynines care to share your DTP setup?


Sure









And the results can be something like this...


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## joey24dirt

I still can't do Rosetta's @JimBean1


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## Rakesh

JimBean1 said:


> Sure
> 
> View attachment 28007
> 
> 
> And the results can be something like this...
> 
> View attachment 28008


Looks brilliant mate


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## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> I still can't do Rosetta's @JimBean1


Good coz I can't do tulips


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## filthynines

Will certainly look to put up a pic in due course!


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## Rakesh

Anyone want to share their work flow and any techniques or anything that people have found help the DTP to reach its full potential? I find its much harder to get an even distribution before tamping on the 54mm basket, puck grooming seems to be generally a bad idea and WDT or shaking/tapping the pf horizontally seems to do more harm than good. I find after dosing just a few firm taps vertically against the table top seems to work the best or if I have any mounds of excess coffee (typically on the left hand side of the basket) I just use a straight finger against the basket to brush these grounds into areas of least coffee to allow me to follow up with a better tamp.


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## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Anyone want to share their work flow and any techniques or anything that people have found help the DTP to reach its full potential? I find its much harder to get an even distribution before tamping on the 54mm basket, puck grooming seems to be generally a bad idea and WDT or shaking/tapping the pf horizontally seems to do more harm than good. I find after dosing just a few firm taps vertically against the table top seems to work the best or if I have any mounds of excess coffee (typically on the left hand side of the basket) I just use a straight finger against the basket to brush these grounds into areas of least coffee to allow me to follow up with a better tamp.


I'll try make a video later although my editing skills aren't up to much haha


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## lelykins

Might as well show mine


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## joey24dirt

@lelykins what scales are those? I think mine are starting to give up so may need to order new soon


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## lelykins

They're a bit of a faf really. Actually bought them for weighing air rifle pellets (I know, sad) in grains. They only weigh up to 100g. So probably not that suitable.


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## Kyle T

@joey24dirt how did you get the bottomless portafilter? Is this something you did yourself? If so are you interested in charging for people to send their portafilters to you to be made bottomless?


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## joey24dirt

lelykins said:


> They're a bit of a faf really. Actually bought them for weighing air rifle pellets (I know, sad) in grains. They only weigh up to 100g. So probably not that suitable.


Ok cool I have an old BSA meteor that I restored up in the gun safe


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## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> @joey24dirt how did you get the bottomless portafilter? Is this something you did yourself? If so are you interested in charging for people to send their portafilters to you to be made bottomless?


Hi yes I had the machined out at work. I just bought a spare from sage then used my old one to convert. I did think about maybe offering some sort of service but not too sure. Mine certainly isn't perfect so I would hate for people to be unhappy.

I do however have some contacts at machining firms locally that we used for more detailed work. They've just converted a 58mm OCD knock off distributor to 53.5 for me so I might be able to work something out. I'd maybe need a decent amount to do in one hit. I even thought about buying a load and converting but don't have that much spare cash lol


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## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> Hi yes I had the machined out at work. I just bought a spare from sage then used my old one to convert. I did think about maybe offering some sort of service but not too sure. Mine certainly isn't perfect so I would hate for people to be unhappy.
> 
> I do however have some contacts at machining firms locally that we used for more detailed work. They've just converted a 58mm OCD knock off distributor to 53.5 for me so I might be able to work something out. I'd maybe need a decent amount to do in one hit. I even thought about buying a load and converting but don't have that much spare cash lol


Well if you ever do decided to start you have a customer!


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## Kyle T

My DTP setup


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## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> Well if you ever do decided to start you have a customer!


I'll have a look into it. We have just had the lathe spruced up a little bit at work so I've been waiting for that to be finished. It's also a strange place my work. We are meant to have training modules on certain equipment. As I haven't got the "official" work module I'm not supposed to use it. Of course there aren't any gaffers in on a weekend though 

I'll keep you posted though


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## joey24dirt

@Rakesh this is how my funnel started life


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## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> My DTP setup
> 
> View attachment 28021


Nice coffee bar


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## urbanbumpkin

joey24dirt said:


> Ok cool I have an old BSA meteor that I restored up in the gun safe


BSA Meteor! Aaah!! I restored one when I was about 10. I think it's still at my Mums house.


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## Beth71

Kyle T said:


> Well if you ever do decided to start you have a customer!


+1 for that


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## joey24dirt

I don't know if I mentioned before but to buy them from sagethey cost £37-£38 delivered. With an additional double basket it's just over £40. It's a shame they won't be able to offer bulk discount on a load of them.


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## joey24dirt

I've just made my best espresso to date . So I ground up 18g of this delicious Rwanda in the pf. Piled towards the centre then give the OCD knock-off a few spins. Good solid tamp and away we go. 1:2 and bang on 30 seconds. I don't usually pay too much attention to the time if I'm honest, as long as it's not getting ridiculous. Very tasty although I'm still rubbish at picking out the different notes. Thought I had a hint of citrus but who knows


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## kennyboy993

Nice one Joey - great making progress isn't it.


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## joey24dirt

kennyboy993 said:


> Nice one Joey - great making progress isn't it.


Thank you  it really is. I think I'll stick at these beans for a while just so I can't get to know them and hopefully start to pick up a few more lessons along the way. We'll see


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## kennyboy993

joey24dirt said:


> Thank you  it really is. I think I'll stick at these beans for a while just so I can't get to know them and hopefully start to pick up a few more lessons along the way. We'll see


That's what I do now, fill the hopper half full with the same bean - it's a better way to learn isn't it ;-)


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## joey24dirt

kennyboy993 said:


> That's what I do now, fill the hopper half full with the same bean - it's a better way to learn isn't it ;-)


Well I started weighing beans in so I knew what I had, then I got lazy and would let the auto function just give me whatever but yeah I'm probably best sticking to weighing them.

I was considering modding my grinder so I could have integrated scales lol


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## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> I've just made my best espresso to date . So I ground up 18g of this delicious Rwanda in the pf. Piled towards the centre then give the OCD knock-off a few spins. Good solid tamp and away we go. 1:2 and bang on 30 seconds. I don't usually pay too much attention to the time if I'm honest, as long as it's not getting ridiculous. Very tasty although I'm still rubbish at picking out the different notes. Thought I had a hint of citrus but who knows


whre did you get the knock OCD from? Didn't realise they made them in 54mm.


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## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> whre did you get the knock OCD from? Didn't realise they made them in 54mm.


I bought a cheap OCD copy that was 58mm and had it machined down to 53.5mm to fit the Sage baskets


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## joey24dirt

Money shot right there. Possibly ran it too long, even though it was a 1:2 ratio.

Not really sure. Thoughts please from the experts


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## Apatche64

Looks good joey










have you you found a big difference in taste with the naked portafilter?

ive got a DTP with a eureka mignon.

looking at calebrated tampers ATM, does everyone think they are worth the money? Not sure how hard to tamp


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## igm45

Apatche64 said:


> Looks good joey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have you you found a big difference in taste with the naked portafilter?
> 
> ive got a DTP with a eureka mignon.
> 
> looking at calebrated tampers ATM, does everyone think they are worth the money? Not sure how hard to tamp


I've found that too much emphasis is put on tamping. Distribution is often overlooked.

Provided your distribution is good tamp level, vertical pressure, until you feel the puck is firm and 'pushes back'.


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## igm45

joey24dirt said:


>


Looks good mate, most importantly how did it taste?


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## joey24dirt

igm45 said:


> Looks good mate, most importantly how did it taste?


It tasted good yeah. I've had a few not so good ones since so technique issues I think haha. Keep trying.....


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## Rakesh

Apatche64 said:


> Looks good joey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> have you you found a big difference in taste with the naked portafilter?
> 
> ive got a DTP with a eureka mignon.
> 
> looking at calebrated tampers ATM, does everyone think they are worth the money? Not sure how hard to tamp


I agree with igm, there's alot of emphasis on tamping and I find once distributed the grounds evenly a level and firm tamp is all that is needed, no nutating or multiple tamps.

In terms of tamping force I find to just tamp as firm as comfortably possible until you feel the ground 'push back' is sufficient and I tamp like this every time. In my experience there's no such thing as tamping too hard as once the puck approaches maximum density there is no real change and tamping any harder is just going to damage your wrist.


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## joey24dirt

igm45 said:


> I've found that too much emphasis is put on tamping. Distribution is often overlooked.
> 
> Provided your distribution is good tamp level, vertical pressure, until you feel the puck is firm and 'pushes back'.


Took the words out of my mouth. I'm still a novice but have definitely found it's not so much how much pressure but as long as is consistent you'll be right.


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## joey24dirt

I definitely feel like I want to try using a mignon now though to see the difference. Shame nowhere can rent me one for a week lol


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## igm45

joey24dirt said:


> It tasted good yeah. I've had a few not so good ones since so technique issues I think haha. Keep trying.....


Mate,

We have all been there. Make a perfect shot, think 'right I've cracked it!!'.

Then, nope, nope nope... (Especially with certain beans)

It'll send you a little mad for a while.

Don't be afraid to go back to spouted pf for a break, to stop stressing. I did, back to naked now and getting it right more often than not.


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## joey24dirt

Thanks @igm45. It does get a bit stress. Especially as I can only play on a night and I'm frightened I wake the babies haha


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## joey24dirt

Nice little comparison shot. On the left is pre-modification at 58mm and on the right is post-modification at 53.5mm

I'm thinking of the possibility of supplying some of these to whoever may be interested. The black one shown belongs to @lake_m just need to get it finished up and sent off.

Also considering the naked portafilters. If I get firm interest then I'll go for it and get some ordered up. Could offer a pf and distributor kit maybe?


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## filthynines

I'd certainly be interested in a bottomless PF, but likely not the distributor tool.


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## joey24dirt

filthynines said:


> I'd certainly be interested in a bottomless PF, but likely not the distributor tool.


Ok that's great. Shall I gather up the prices and get back to you? Would you want a double basket with it also?


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## filthynines

joey24dirt said:


> Ok that's great. Shall I gather up the prices and get back to you? Would you want a double basket with it also?


Sure thing, thanks. I don't think the double basket would be necessary - am I right? I have the usual double that comes with the machine.


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## joey24dirt

filthynines said:


> Sure thing, thanks. I don't think the double basket would be necessary - am I right? I have the usual double that comes with the machine.


Yeah it was just incase you wanted a spare. I got one with mine but it makes no difference really


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## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> Nice little comparison shot. On the left is pre-modification at 58mm and on the right is post-modification at 53.5mm
> 
> I'm thinking of the possibility of supplying some of these to whoever may be interested. The black one shown belongs to @lake_m just need to get it finished up and sent off.
> 
> Also considering the naked portafilters. If I get firm interest then I'll go for it and get some ordered up. Could offer a pf and distributor kit maybe?


Definitely interested in both!


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## joey24dirt

Just been through my emails and found the invoice from sage. That was for a portafilter and a double basket.

The distributors are £18.99 off eBay and they have a few different colours (I'll have to check)










Postage would be approx £5 which would be insured and require a signature.

I'm not particularly fussed on earning anything from this just as long as I can get them machined for free.

It will take at least a week to deliver from sage so that's a consideration when ordering.

It's likely to be a few weeks to get the bits in and modified. The more I have the easier it will be to get them all done at once.

I would need the money up front to buy the parts in as it will likely get expensive haha 

So yeah stick your names down with what you want and we will go from there


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## joey24dirt

Ok so for transparency I've been discussing with @Kyle T the price for a modified distribution tool and portafilter set. The parts including postage came to £61.02 (random number I know) so he agreed to pay £70 in total for both items. The little extra will cover packaging materials and any other stuff that may crop up. Hopefully that sounds ok.

Obviously for individual items the price would alter.

The postage includes a signature requirement and insurance up to £80.


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## joey24dirt

In addition to previous post I've been speaking to @Rakesh about ordering just a distribution tool on its own. We agreed on a price that was fair and in line with what I had quoted for both the tool and pf.

So prices are as follows.

Naked portafilter and distribution tool set £70










Naked portafilter £46.50

53.5mm distribution tool £28.50

All prices include insured delivery via myhermes and a small portion to go towards packaging materials.

Pictured are the colours available for the tool.



















I hope you guys agree that these are fair prices. I figured that there's only going to be a limited amount of people who want these so I don't mind doing this. If you feel inclined to, maybe give a donation to the forum as a means of a thank you.

If you're interested just drop me a PM and we can arrange it all

Cheers


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## joey24dirt

You may notice that the individual prices add up to more than the combined price. This is due to the fixed price of the postage. Up to 2kgs is one price. 2-5kgs another and so on....


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## joey24dirt

@filthynines @Beth71 are you guys still interested as I'm going to place an order with sage. I've added a list of costings so check that out if you want one  would be loads easier getting them all done at the same time.


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## Beth71

@joey24dirt PM sent


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## lake_m

Hi @joey24dirt - just been looking at the photo of the two side by side.

I noticed you didn't skim the shims as well as the main bit. Does the tool sit in the basket only as far as the 1st shim disc or am I seeing it worng?

Was just wondering whether that would stop you extending the reach of the tool further down into the basket, i.e. it would only go as far as the lip at the 1st shim. (Hope that makes sense).


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## joey24dirt

Yeah that's correct @lake_m it will only go as far as that 45 degree chamfer. That's depth is 10mm so goes far enough for the sage baskets before you reach the taper. Do you need yours altering? Or will it work still at that?


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## lake_m

I think it will be OK. Just toying with the idea of using as a tamper (your suggestion







) which I quite like the sound of. By adding extra shims you could go deeper in theory, but would only work with a straight basket. Better leave it 'as is'.


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## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> I think it will be OK. Just toying with the idea of using as a tamper (your suggestion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) which I quite like the sound of. By adding extra shims you could go deeper in theory, but would only work with a straight basket. Better leave it 'as is'.


I tried it and it didn't work. I could potentially make a tamper out of one though


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## filthynines

I'm in for a portafilter! Thanks very much for arranging!


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## joey24dirt

filthynines said:


> I'm in for a portafilter! Thanks very much for arranging!


Perfect! They are getting ordered up tomorrow. DM me when you get chance


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## joey24dirt

How much are we dosing then guys? The double basket is rated between 15-18g but I can easily get more in. I'm about to run 18.5g through to see what that does. I just seem to have a lot of headspace with an 18g dose.


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## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> How much are we dosing then guys? The double basket is rated between 15-18g but I can easily get more in. I'm about to run 18.5g through to see what that does. I just seem to have a lot of headspace with an 18g dose.


I dose pretty consistently at 18g, only thing I change is grind. I aim for 1:2 brew ratio however it seems 18>30 works better for slightly lighter roasts. Always aim for around 30s, however I find crema to always be a touch too thin on this machine, just my experience or anyone else finding the same?


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## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> I dose pretty consistently at 18g, only thing I change is grind. I aim for 1:2 brew ratio however it seems 18>30 works better for slightly lighter roasts. Always aim for around 30s, however I find crema to always be a touch too thin on this machine, just my experience or anyone else finding the same?


Yeah I've been stuck on 18g for a while. I'm convincing myself that this grinder isn't really up to much so I may need to swap it out lol. Ideal opportunity as it's my birthday in a month 

I got your DM by the way about the dist tool. Your mailbox is full though so it wouldn't accept my reply lol


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## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah I've been stuck on 18g for a while. I'm convincing myself that this grinder isn't really up to much so I may need to swap it out lol. Ideal opportunity as it's my birthday in a month
> 
> I got your DM by the way about the dist tool. Your mailbox is full though so it wouldn't accept my reply lol


I'll clear it out now, try to resend it.


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## joey24dirt

joey24dirt said:


> @Rakesh this is how my funnel started life


 @Apatche64


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## Beth71

Rakesh said:


> I dose pretty consistently at 18g, only thing I change is grind. I aim for 1:2 brew ratio however it seems 18>30 works better for slightly lighter roasts. Always aim for around 30s, however I find crema to always be a touch too thin on this machine, just my experience or anyone else finding the same?


I find the crema varies with the beans. Coffee Compass' Sweet Bourbon, for example, produces v thick crema for me.


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## joey24dirt

Beth71 said:


> I find the crema varies with the beans. Coffee Compass' Sweet Bourbon, for example, produces v thick crema for me.


Are those beans available online? I try to stay loyal to my local spot for beans but then hear of all these other types that sound so good it's hard not to want them


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## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> Are those beans available online? I try to stay loyal to my local spot for beans but then hear of all these other types that sound so good it's hard not to want them


 @joey24dirt - where abouts is your local roaster in Redcar? Might drop in next time I'm through with pooch.


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## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> @joey24dirt - where abouts is your local roaster in Redcar? Might drop in next time I'm through with pooch.


Yeah it's Relish cafe on the high street. I've never actually sat in and had a drink there so not sure what the talent is like but the cakes are really nice


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## stereoket

Really keen on a Naked Portafilter for my DTP if you are going to place an order.


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## stereoket

I've had my DTP since last December and within 2-3 months the oring on the steam wand spout tore and sheared. I've been in contact with Sage support, and they've basically told me its a spare part and not covered under warranty. So although its not much £2.95 + another £2.50 in postage, i'm more inclined to just buy some o-rings and have a bunch as spare in case. I'm pretty sure the o-ring should not have broke so soon, considering I barely used the machine in the first few months.

Does anyone have any measurements of the o-ring width / diameter, so I could potentially source some generic food grade o-rings?


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## joey24dirt

stereoket said:


> I've had my DTP since last December and within 2-3 months the oring on the steam wand spout tore and sheared. I've been in contact with Sage support, and they've basically told me its a spare part and not covered under warranty. So although its not much £2.95 + another £2.50 in postage, i'm more inclined to just buy some o-rings and have a bunch as spare in case. I'm pretty sure the o-ring should not have broke so soon, considering I barely used the machine in the first few months.
> 
> Does anyone have any measurements of the o-ring width / diameter, so I could potentially source some generic food grade o-rings?
> 
> View attachment 28132


I can measure up later if that's any good to you? Just replying to your DM also


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## stereoket

joey24dirt said:


> I can measure up later if that's any good to you? Just replying to your DM also


That would be great, cheers


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## stereoket

I sometimes pull single shots for 2 of us and use these glass walled cups - to save time, then i'll steam one jug for flat whites, although i'm not quite able to get the texture consistent. We only use oat/soy or almond milk, so its a little more difficult. I've loved using he DTP, made such a difference in the taste of coffee.


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## joey24dirt

stereoket said:


> I sometimes pull single shots for 2 of us and use these glass walled cups - to save time, then i'll steam one jug for flat whites, although i'm not quite able to get the texture consistent. We only use oat/soy or almond milk, so its a little more difficult. I've loved using he DTP, made such a difference in the taste of coffee.
> 
> View attachment 28133


Ah yes I occasionally do oat milk for the wife. Loads of stretch time to get it anywhere near for art lol.


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## stereoket

joey24dirt said:


> Ah yes I occasionally do oat milk for the wife. Loads of stretch time to get it anywhere near for art lol.


As far as art goes, if I use oatly foamable, I can get some results, not all the time. But I'm still getting my head around the basic technique as it is. They always come out different ! AS far as beans goe, I work my way through the Has Bean secret stash, so new beans/roasts each month. That and i mess around with beans and make my own blends from Campbell and Symme beans (North London)


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## stereoket

Has anyone found good heavy tamps that fit the 53mm DTP PF baskets snugly, the magnetic one with the machine, although nice to gently push the grounds down, doesn't have a good weight, I have a really nice heavy 51mm tamp, but not ideal.


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## Beth71

53mm Motta tamper. I think you'll find quite a few DTP owners use this tamper.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-tamper-brown-wooden-handle.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxsTa26ik1QIVkqntCh24qwpgEAQYAiABEgLCsvD_BwE


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## Rakesh

The motta tamper is a must have for DTP owners.


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## joey24dirt

Beth71 said:


> 53mm Motta tamper. I think you'll find quite a few DTP owners use this tamper.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-tamper-brown-wooden-handle.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxsTa26ik1QIVkqntCh24qwpgEAQYAiABEgLCsvD_BwE


I didn't realise the price of them new!!


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## Kyle T

I bought this tamper

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B017OYKT4G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Though it was £18 and 53mm when I bought it lol


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## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> I bought this tamper
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B017OYKT4G/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> Though it was £18 and 53mm when I bought it lol


Was that link right? £75??


----------



## joey24dirt

Do you guys know of any second hand mignons available? Or partial swap for my sage dose pro. I definitely feel I'm not reaching the full potential due to the grind


----------



## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> Was that link right? £75??


Yeah its the right link, thats my exact tamper but it must of been from a different seller, they might even be from the US but mine cost £18.


----------



## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> Yeah its the right link, thats my exact tamper but it must of been from a different seller, they might even be from the US but mine cost £18.


Lucky then. So what are you going to do with it? Send it back?


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> Do you guys know of any second hand mignons available? Or partial swap for my sage dose pro. I definitely feel I'm not reaching the full potential due to the grind


Have you thought of getting a Mazzer super jolly or mini instead, bigger burrs and better grind consistency, also sell more frequently and coupled with the DTP is really quite a match. In my own personal opinion, I think that the super jolly is better than a Mignon after playing around with one at a friends and comparing it to my own sj. It all depends on space, the Mazzer is quite a big beast however lacks many of the problems the Mignon suffers (clumping, spraying etc). The retention on the mazzers can be cut to around 0.1g-0.05g with some very easy mods (cardboard sweepers, lens hood). Definitely not trying to knock the Mignon, they are excellent grinders in themselves. Although I am biased as the sj is my new beast, after all, you know what they say about bigger burrs...


----------



## joey24dirt

@Rakesh big burrs big....... 

I haven't done much research into the SJ. From what I've seen though they do have quite the footprint. I need something that is similar in stature to my current sage which I think the mignon is (need to actually do a comparison) I just wish that somewhere had a little hire service so you could try them out first. I'll definitely have a look at the SJ though so thanks for the input


----------



## stereoket

I have a Baratza Virtuoso and I get a really great consistent grind, although the fine setting needs to be changed when i move from different bean/roast - on the whole I get a great result, not just for my DTP but also V60, Cold Brew and Press.


----------



## Beth71

joey24dirt said:


> @Rakesh big burrs big.......
> 
> I haven't done much research into the SJ. From what I've seen though they do have quite the footprint. I need something that is similar in stature to my current sage which I think the mignon is (need to actually do a comparison) I just wish that somewhere had a little hire service so you could try them out first. I'll definitely have a look at the SJ though so thanks for the input


 @joey24dirt The Mignon takes up a bit less space than the Sage. I'll post a pic of them side by side later if I can, so you can see for yourself. The Mignon is very compact.


----------



## joey24dirt

Just had the ok from the wife for a grinder upgrade. So do I go for new mignon or possible a used SJ. There's a 2008 SJ available on here?


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> Just had the ok from the wife for a grinder upgrade. So do I go for new mignon or possible a used SJ. There's a 2008 SJ available on here?


There's always a few SJs on here, the age isn't really too much of a big deal with these machines as they are built like tanks. Just go for whatever one is in the best condition and you won't be disappointed.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> There's always a few SJs on here, the age isn't really too much of a big deal with these machines as they are built like tanks. Just go for whatever one is in the best condition and you won't be disappointed.


The one I have seen is likely give it a little overhaul anyway so yeah I'm not sure. It's the size of them that concerns me though.


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> The one I have seen is likely give it a little overhaul anyway so yeah I'm not sure. It's the size of them that concerns me though.


They are big machines but not the biggest grinder I've seen, with a micro hopper they are just taller than the DTP.


----------



## JimBean1

@joey24dirt if it helps at all I love my mignon as you know already but I am also quite taken by the dosorless Mazzer Mini Auto, it has a smaller footprint than the SJ. Basically it seems that like everything there is always something better


----------



## Beth71

Size comparison for you @joey24dirt


----------



## Rakesh

There are other great grinders out there, have a look at the Compak k6 or fiorenzato f5.


----------



## joey24dirt

Thanks guys. I do have the room for an SJ in my eyes but whether the wife agrees is another thing lol. I'm just happy that I can't get one without too much grief.


----------



## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> Lucky then. So what are you going to do with it? Send it back?


No this is the tamper i've had since i bought my DTP (around 14months ago).


----------



## Rakesh

My 60 second take on the @joey24dirt Tesco spice funnel, didn't need much height, just something to stop the grinds from spilling as I stir with a toothpick. Hope no one wonders where all the baking powder went lol.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> My 60 second take on the @joey24dirt Tesco spice funnel, didn't need much height, just something to stop the grinds from spilling as I stir with a toothpick. Hope no one wonders where all the baking powder went lol.


Ah yes good work. Luckily the spices in my pot were well out of date otherwise I would've been in trouble


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> Thanks guys. I do have the room for an SJ in my eyes but whether the wife agrees is another thing lol. I'm just happy that I can't get one without too much grief.


 @joey24dirt - Great though the Mignon is, following the general theory that bigger burrs offer better speed, grind quality, and ultimately taste in the cup, the 64mm SJ should offer a decent improvement over the 50mm Mignon. When I upgraded from the 50mm Rocky to the 63mm Quamar, it was very noticeable. So unless space is really tight, I would go for the bigger burrs. If you want to know what a 63mm tastes like, I could lend you the Quamar for a few days. General consensus is it's equivalent to a SJ taste-wise.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> @joey24dirt - Great though the Mignon is, following the general theory that bigger burrs offer better speed, grind quality, and ultimately taste in the cup, the 64mm SJ should offer a decent improvement over the 50mm Mignon. When I upgraded from the 50mm Rocky to the 63mm Quamar, it was very noticeable. So unless space is really tight, I would go for the bigger burrs. If you want to know what a 63mm tastes like, I could lend you the Quamar for a few days. General consensus is it's equivalent to a SJ taste-wise.


That's very kind of you thanks. There's no need for it now though as I've just sealed the deal with an SJ from the forum 

Thanks for the info it's made me feel like I've made a good choice.

Anyone want to buy a sage grinder


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> That's very kind of you thanks. There's no need for it now though as I've just sealed the deal with an SJ from the forum
> 
> Thanks for the info it's made me feel like I've made a good choice.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a sage grinder


What's it like for filter?


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> What's it like for filter?


I have no idea to be honest I've only used it for espresso


----------



## lake_m

Rakesh said:


> What's it like for filter?


I think it shares the same 40mm conical burrs as the Smart Grinder pro. In which case, it's great for filter (I use the SG pro for filter)


----------



## joey24dirt

To everyone who has ordered either a portafilter or distributor or both. I'll be placing the order on Monday then once I have them get everything down to the machine shop and hit them all in one session.

For the guys who have ordered the pf's..... the metalwork on them comes as standard stainless steel. With mine I changed it to brushed stainless. If this is something you would like doing just let me know. There's something really therapeutic in metal work so I hope some of you say yes haha.


----------



## Apatche64

joey24dirt said:


> That's very kind of you thanks. There's no need for it now though as I've just sealed the deal with an SJ from the forum
> 
> Thanks for the info it's made me feel like I've made a good choice.
> 
> Anyone want to buy a sage grinder


id be interested in the grinder I think, depending on the price of course


----------



## joey24dirt

I'll see where I'm at once I've received/restored the SJ


----------



## Apatche64

Cool, let me know, after it for my aeropress


----------



## joey24dirt

Sounds good. I'm hoping to have the SJ sent out Friday so I'm guessing next week. Did you get sorted with a motta tamper? That was you wasn't it?


----------



## Apatche64

Yeah, was me, not sorted yet


----------



## joey24dirt

Might have one up for grabs soon lol.


----------



## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> To everyone who has ordered either a portafilter or distributor or both. I'll be placing the order on Monday then once I have them get everything down to the machine shop and hit them all in one session.
> 
> For the guys who have ordered the pf's..... the metalwork on them comes as standard stainless steel. With mine I changed it to brushed stainless. If this is something you would like doing just let me know. There's something really therapeutic in metal work so I hope some of you say yes haha.


Hey @joey24dirt I don't know enough about metal to know what the difference is? Is it just that one is matt and one is glossy?


----------



## joey24dirt

JimBean1 said:


> Hey @joey24dirt I don't know enough about metal to know what the difference is? Is it just that one is matt and one is glossy?


Yeah that's it Jim. The casing on the DTP is brushed stainless


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Heres my DTP setup, coupled with the SJ this thing is seriously impressive!


What hopper are you using? Are there smaller ones available than the massive one that is coming with mine?


----------



## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah that's it Jim. The casing on the DTP is brushed stainless


Great, I'm happy with either to be honest, brushed would be pretty cool but only if it's not a pain. Can't wait to try it out, that image of perfect espresso flowing from a bottomless pf is the thing that first triggered my little espresso obsession so be nice to nail it and close the circle


----------



## filthynines

+1 on what JimBean1 said. If you fancy giving yourself a little more work and you feel it's worth your while to do it then crack on!


----------



## joey24dirt

Yeah it's no bother and it's an enjoyable process so why not.


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> What hopper are you using? Are there smaller ones available than the massive one that is coming with mine?


You can buy a Mazzer mini hopper or what I have which is just a rubber camera lens hood, explanation here


----------



## joey24dirt

So work today has been awesome. I work for the water board and we do stuff for the community every now and then. Today was working with the EA on a beach clean. Whilst on with it I dipped into a cafe. Right in front of me I saw 4 super jollies. How strange after just buying one. The owner said he has had them for 11 years and were "bomb-proof" can't have a better endorsement than that lol


----------



## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> To everyone who has ordered either a portafilter or distributor or both. I'll be placing the order on Monday then once I have them get everything down to the machine shop and hit them all in one session.
> 
> For the guys who have ordered the pf's..... the metalwork on them comes as standard stainless steel. With mine I changed it to brushed stainless. If this is something you would like doing just let me know. There's something really therapeutic in metal work so I hope some of you say yes haha.


By all means if you want to do the brushed stainless on mine feel free 

Btw, i noticed you've just bought an SJ. Myself and quite a few others have refurbed old SJ's so if you need any advice check out our threads on here.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?35158-My-Mazzer-SJ-refurb


----------



## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> By all means if you want to do the brushed stainless on mine feel free
> 
> Btw, i noticed you've just bought an SJ. Myself and quite a few others have refurbed old SJ's so if you need any advice check out our threads on here.
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?35158-My-Mazzer-SJ-refurb


That's brilliant thank you. I had planned on doing a refurb thread anyway so you guys can dip in and out at the different stages to guide me along the way


----------



## joey24dirt

So when cleaning the machine which basket are we all using? I've previously used the single non pressurised and the disk, but today I tried the double pressurised in the hope to get a better clean. No idea if it helped but I also learned not to use the naked pf when cleaning  spray everywhere!


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> So when cleaning the machine which basket are we all using? I've previously used the single non pressurised and the disk, but today I tried the double pressurised in the hope to get a better clean. No idea if it helped but I also learned not to use the naked pf when cleaning  spray everywhere!


I use the single pressurised disc when back flushing in the hopes more water is back flushed than comes out the pf spouts.


----------



## JimBean1

Rakesh said:


> I use the single pressurised disc when back flushing in the hopes more water is back flushed than comes out the pf spouts.


Me too.


----------



## colb16

May I ask where you got the mat and how have you found it? Debating getting one but not sure if it is entirely needed, any excuse to get something extra for my set up! Thanks

Above is directed at Kyle T and his tamping mat- forgot to include post.


----------



## joey24dirt

I've just got this rhinowares one from amazing. I think it was £12


----------



## Slates71

Received A DTP yesterday and have a concern if anyone can help.... Once the basket is fitted into the portafilter,very tight fit I feel, but when I position it into the group head and begin to turn the portafilter into lock position I hear a grinding noise,doesn't feel a smooth movement. Without the basket fitted it's fine... Then when I try and remove the basket it's almost impossible to take out..it's stuck in place. Is this typical of the DTP or do I have a genuine problem?


----------



## joey24dirt

Slates71 said:


> Received A DTP yesterday and have a concern if anyone can help.... Once the basket is fitted into the portafilter,very tight fit I feel, but when I position it into the group head and begin to turn the portafilter into lock position I hear a grinding noise,doesn't feel a smooth movement. Without the basket fitted it's fine... Then when I try and remove the basket it's almost impossible to take out..it's stuck in place. Is this typical of the DTP or do I have a genuine problem?


The noise is the basket turning inside the portafilter as you twist it into the group head. If it's a brand new machine or nearly new it will do this until everything has worn in. Give it a week or so and it should settle down.

To be precise it's the edge of the spring clip rubbing on the basket. You'll start to notice a groove wear into the basket after a while.

I had the same with mine and it was fine given time.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rang sage to order the portafilters and was told they had none in stock. So they took my phone number and email and will let me know when they have them in. Good news is the distributors arrived for those who ordered them. Still need to mod them though but need the pf's so I can have it all in one go. Sorry for the delay


----------



## joey24dirt

Come on Lea let us have them!!!


----------



## filthynines

No, you may not ask. It's a consumer product: either sell it on or don't! Would they really be that bothered if you were buying them, selling them on at a mark-up and pocketing the difference? If so, why?!

Tell him/her that you're machining a part for some people who love the DTP but can't fathom why the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to produce the part.


----------



## joey24dirt

filthynines said:


> No, you may not ask. It's a consumer product: either sell it on or don't! Would they really be that bothered if you were buying them, selling them on at a mark-up and pocketing the difference? If so, why?!
> 
> Tell him/her that you're machining a part for some people who love the DTP but can't fathom why the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to produce the part.


That's exactly what I've told them. Well similar. Explained it's a forum group who want these items, it's a non profit thing blah blah. I'm waiting for a reply but no doubt it will be tomorrow. If I have to do it one at at time then so be it. Sucks though.


----------



## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> That's exactly what I've told them. Well similar. Explained it's a forum group who want these items, it's a non profit thing blah blah. I'm waiting for a reply but no doubt it will be tomorrow. If I have to do it one at at time then so be it. Sucks though.


Hi Joe, thanks for the efforts but please don't let this become a pain for you it's not fair if they're going to make it difficult. I still hold out hope!


----------



## Beth71

filthynines said:


> No, you may not ask. It's a consumer product: either sell it on or don't! Would they really be that bothered if you were buying them, selling them on at a mark-up and pocketing the difference? If so, why?!
> 
> Tell him/her that you're machining a part for some people who love the DTP but can't fathom why the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to produce the part.


Spot on.


----------



## joey24dirt

Aw no it will be fine. I'm made of strong stuff so don't like taking no as an answer. As mentioned by @filthynines why have them for sale if they aren't for sale??!!

We will see what tomorrow brings. I do have a new one at home in the box still if we get desperate  buy four from sage and I'll sell my spare one lol.


----------



## joey24dirt

Update!! At least we're allowed to buy them haha.

The distribution tools have gone into the machine shop and should be sorted by the end of the week. We will get there


----------



## supertom44

Hey, just thought I'd drop by as I am now a happy owner of a DTP, used it a few times now and really enjoying it.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Hey, just thought I'd drop by as I am now a happy owner of a DTP, used it a few times now and really enjoying it.


Hi there. Welcome. Hopefully we can help out with any problems you might come across. Post a pic of your set up if you get chance. We always like a nosey haha


----------



## Rakesh

supertom44 said:


> Hey, just thought I'd drop by as I am now a happy owner of a DTP, used it a few times now and really enjoying it.


Welcome to the club


----------



## joey24dirt

Quick update.


----------



## supertom44

Many thanks, I'll post a picture tonight when I get back.

Im interested to see how you get on with the distribution tool as with my current method I end up making a bit of a mess if I'm not careful.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Many thanks, I'll post a picture tonight when I get back.
> 
> Im interested to see how you get on with the distribution tool as with my current method I end up making a bit of a mess if I'm not careful.


I've been using mine for a while now and it seems to be ok


----------



## supertom44

My set up.


----------



## joey24dirt

You don't steam with the machine there do you surely  you'll be knocking elbows off the wall and alsorts lol


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> You don't steam with the machine there do you surely  you'll be knocking elbows off the wall and alsorts lol


Haha yeah we have to slide the machine out to the side in order to steam the milk


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Haha yeah we have to slide the machine out to the side in order to steam the milk


I bet you soon get sick of doing that. I'm just waiting to move my fish tank(it's on a perfect coffee bar type thing) so I can move the coffee machine onto there. Sounds easy but there's lots of T&Cs involved from the wife


----------



## stereoket

Don't think i ever posted my setup







Nice to see another Baratza grinder in the group


----------



## stereoket

joey24dirt said:


> Quick update.


When they do come through, as you asked earlier, a brushed metal finish on mine would be fab.


----------



## joey24dirt

stereoket said:


> When they do come through, as you asked earlier, a brushed metal finish on mine would be fab.


No problem at all.


----------



## joey24dirt

Ey up everyone. The distributors are done so just waiting on the portafilters to come in. I do have one ready to be honest, however it didn't quite go to plan so there's a few knock and scrapes on it where it escaped from the vice when cutting lol





































So it's up to you guys. If one of you wants this one then I'll send it out. It doesn't affect it when using so it's purely aesthetics.

Discuss amongst yourselves maybe if a few of you want it or if there's no clear winner then I could refer to whoever ordered first.

Cheers guys hope you all see this message so it's a fair crack for everyone.


----------



## JimBean1

@joey24dirt I don't mind having the slightly gnarled one


----------



## mctrials23

Hey @joey24dirt, I have gone back through this thread but I might have missed something. Are you selling naked PFs for the DTP? If so I am really interested in one.


----------



## joey24dirt

JimBean1 said:


> @joey24dirt I don't mind having the slightly gnarled one


Do you mind if we wait a little longer to see if anyone else wants it? Just to try and be fair to everyone


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Hey @joey24dirt, I have gone back through this thread but I might have missed something. Are you selling naked PFs for the DTP? If so I am really interested in one.


Hi mate thanks for the interest. I'm ordering them from sage, making them naked, then sending them out to folk. Did you catch the prices I had listed? Cheers


----------



## mctrials23

Sorry, I didn't see them but I only went back about 10 pages and I'm not massively observant! I'll either keep looking or if you have them to hand would you mind sticking them up.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Sorry, I didn't see them but I only went back about 10 pages and I'm not massively observant! I'll either keep looking or if you have them to hand would you mind sticking them up.












There you go. Just need to mention that sage don't have any portafilters in until the end of the month that's all.


----------



## fatboyslim

supertom44 said:


> My set up.


Hope you're looking after my old Preciso. That thing is a trooper! Looks good next to the DTP


----------



## supertom44

fatboyslim said:


> Hope you're looking after my old Preciso. That thing is a trooper! Looks good next to the DTP


Haha I'm looking after it don't worry, it's serving me well for both brewed and espresso at the moment.


----------



## Tonyp

Hi joey I would like a naked portafilter if there is one available


----------



## joey24dirt

Tonyp said:


> Hi joey I would like a naked portafilter if there is one available


Ok that's great. I'll need to check with sage that they will allow me to buy so many in one go. They seemed to be a bit funny when I asked for 5 lol


----------



## joey24dirt

I could maybe modify your original portafilters but it would mean being without for about a week. I know I couldn't cope with that haha


----------



## joey24dirt

Updated set up photo  totally in love with every part of this kit (well maybe not my cheapo scales)


----------



## filthynines

Nice! How are you finding the new grinder? Updated signature needed!


----------



## joey24dirt

filthynines said:


> Nice! How are you finding the new grinder? Updated signature needed!


Oh yeah forgot about that. Yeah it's great and has definitely improved my coffee although I'm still not sure if I'm in the money or not. Time will tell I suppose, I'm happy I made the jump though


----------



## fatboyslim

joey24dirt said:


> Oh yeah forgot about that. Yeah it's great and has definitely improved my coffee although I'm still not sure if I'm in the money or not. Time will tell I suppose, I'm happy I made the jump though


Very eye-catching setup. Do you leave the PF locked in when not in use? This can wear down the gaskets prematurely just in case you weren't aware.


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Very eye-catching setup. Do you leave the PF locked in when not in use? This can wear down the gaskets prematurely just in case you weren't aware.


Ah good point. I'm a bit half and half. I like to let it air dry sometimes but never thought of gasket wear. I shall be leaving it off now. Thanks for the tip


----------



## joey24dirt

Managed to get another knock off made today but with a tamping face.










Fingers crossed it makes my tamping more consistent. It will be interesting to see if it does actually work.


----------



## Lilybell2

fatboyslim said:


> Very eye-catching setup. Do you leave the PF locked in when not in use? This can wear down the gaskets prematurely just in case you weren't aware.


There are varying opinions on the matter of leaving the portafilter in the group or removing it when not in use. For example, Rocket Espresso Milano's 2017 user manual, page 28 item 3 states:



> It is important to leave the portafilter installed in the group head when not in use. The portafilter must remain heated for a successful brew process. It will also prevent the head seal inside the group head from drying out prematurely.


I always clean and return the portafilter to the group when finished, turning it just enough to keep it securely in place.


----------



## joey24dirt

Lilybell2 said:


> There are varying opinions on the matter of leaving the portafilter in the group or removing it when not in use. For example, Rocket Espresso Milano's 2017 user manual, page 28 item 3 states:
> 
> I always clean and return the portafilter to the group when finished, turning it just enough to keep it securely in place.


I always have it in when heating up but vary when finished sometimes leaving out off. Who knows what's best really, not me lol


----------



## khampal

Lilybell2 said:


> There are varying opinions on the matter of leaving the portafilter in the group or removing it when not in use. For example, Rocket Espresso Milano's 2017 user manual, page 28 item 3 states:
> 
> I always clean and return the portafilter to the group when finished, turning it just enough to keep it securely in place.


I don't really think that's applicable in the case of the DTP, because the group head barely heats up when the machine is powered on.


----------



## joey24dirt

I'm wondering if there's a way of retro fitting a 3-way valve onto the DTP? I sort of managed with my old delonghi lol


----------



## joey24dirt

I'm wondering if there's a way of retro fitting a 3-way valve onto the DTP? I sort of managed with my old delonghi lol


----------



## Lilybell2

joey24dirt said:


> I'm wondering if there's a way of retro fitting a 3-way valve onto the DTP? I sort of managed with my old delonghi lol


Let's face it, you're a born tinkerer.


----------



## joey24dirt

I definitely am! I always like to strip things down for a look and most of the time they go back together haha


----------



## Lilybell2

Well, it's folk like you who in the end make things easier for those of us who are not tinkerers, so thank you.


----------



## joey24dirt

Ok so my phone went bang and I had everyone's orders on there so when you guys see this please can you just remind me what you wanted. I think there's only two of you who ordered both. I know @Kyle T has ordered both and I think @Beth71. The rest is a mystery lol


----------



## Beth71

Yep, it was both for me, @joey24dirt. Hope your phone didn't actually go bang


----------



## joey24dirt

Beth71 said:


> Yep, it was both for me, @joey24dirt. Hope your phone didn't actually go bang


Luckily it didn't actually blow up but it's just gave up. I've had it for at least 6 years and kept fixing it so it definitely served me well. New one will arrive today. Finger crossed I can just back it up and the notes will be saved still! In the mean time I'll stick your names down in the chalk board


----------



## jimbocz

I'm down for just the portafilter. No preference on finish.


----------



## joey24dirt

I should be able to confirm everything soon when my new phone arrives


----------



## Matius84

I've just found this thread & if possible I'd happily take both the naked pf and the distribution tool?!


----------



## PPapa

Am I allowed to the club?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Am I allowed to the club?


I'm not sure you'll fit through the door with that huge thing haha 

What grinder is that?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> I'm not sure you'll fit through the door with that huge thing haha
> 
> What grinder is that?


Santos no 4 with stepless mod.

Not sure of results yet - 3 shots pulled so far and the third one is drinkable. Not many people tried it for espresso, but works quite well for brewed.

Haven't touched an espresso machine for some time (had SJ and 2 group Fracino at work), so I know some basics.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Santos no 4 with stepless mod.
> 
> Not sure of results yet - 3 shots pulled so far and the third one is drinkable. Not many people tried it for espresso, but works quite well for brewed.
> 
> Haven't touched an espresso machine for some time (had SJ and 2 group Fracino at work), so I know some basics.


Ah so you have just picked up the DTP?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Ah so you have just picked up the DTP?


Yeah, had Santos for a while. DTP arrived few hours ago.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Yeah, had Santos for a while. DTP arrived few hours ago.


Great little machines


----------



## PPapa

By the way, they seem to be popping up on eBay fairly frequently these days.

I snatched mine (refurbished) for £132 delivered with 12 month warranty.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> By the way, they seem to be popping up on eBay fairly frequently these days.
> 
> I snatched mine (refurbished) for £132 delivered with 12 month warranty.


I wish I'd waited, I paid full whack for mine lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Nicely tucked in ready for its return journey  @khampal


----------



## khampal

Looks awesome! Can't wait to use it.









Thanks a lot @joey24dirt


----------



## JimBean1

@joey24dirt First shot with new portafilter - love it!!


----------



## joey24dirt

JimBean1 said:


> @joey24dirt First shot with new portafilter - love it!!


Nicely done. Good to see it's not just me who abandons the kids to make coffee haha


----------



## PPapa

Pretty stocked with the results so far since I got the DTP on Thursday.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Pretty stocked with the results so far since I got the DTP on Thursday.


Great work. Do you steam your milk first or pull the shot?

I used to do the milk first but I've just switched it around to see if it makes any difference.


----------



## PPapa

I'm struggling with espresso more right now, so that goes first. Still getting 22s 18g->36g shots. Haven't had a chance on Thursday or Friday to play about too much, so today I'm hoping to get a more than a decent espresso as well.

Edit: lol just posted this before pulling another shot. 31s, 18g->36g. Didn't think I'll go that tight on Santos. I know the dial is rubbish (markings 1-23) and "espresso" range is at 7-10, "fine" range is 3-6, but got a good shot at 2. Note taken.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I'm struggling with espresso more right now, so that goes first. Still getting 22s 18g->36g shots. Haven't had a chance on Thursday or Friday to play about too much, so today I'm hoping to get a more than a decent espresso as well.
> 
> Edit: lol just posted this before pulling another shot. 31s, 18g->36g. Didn't think I'll go that tight on Santos. I know the dial is rubbish (markings 1-23) and "espresso" range is at 7-10, "fine" range is 3-6, but got a good shot at 2. Note taken.


How was it? Not that I'm any good at the tasting side of things yet


----------



## GCGlasgow

PPapa said:


> By the way, they seem to be popping up on eBay fairly frequently these days.
> 
> I snatched mine (refurbished) for £132 delivered with 12 month warranty.


That's a good deal...so you finally succumbed to espresso?


----------



## PPapa

GCGlasgow said:


> That's a good deal...so you finally succumbed to espresso?


Yeah, realised I can give it a go and see where I get to.



joey24dirt said:


> How was it? Not that I'm any good at the tasting side of things yet


Let's say there's lots of improvements that could be made


----------



## PPapa

I might have missed out on this thread, but what do you guys use as a dosing funnel? The only available option I found was Orphan Espresso funnel, and I would rather not have business with them again due to previous experience. I'm currently using the AeroPress funnel, but it's still a bit messy business as it's narrower than the basket.

Also, is Motta 53mm tamper the best you can get?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I might have missed out on this thread, but what do you guys use as a dosing funnel? The only available option I found was Orphan Espresso funnel, and I would rather not have business with them again due to previous experience. I'm currently using the AeroPress funnel, but it's still a bit messy business as it's narrower than the basket.
> 
> Also, is Motta 53mm tamper the best you can get?


A spice pot from Tesco is what I'm using lol. It's a perfect fit for the sage baskets.

With regards to a tamper, yes the motta 53mm is pretty much on the money. I'm debating whether or not to sell the one I have


----------



## Rakesh

PPapa said:


> I might have missed out on this thread, but what do you guys use as a dosing funnel? The only available option I found was Orphan Espresso funnel, and I would rather not have business with them again due to previous experience. I'm currently using the AeroPress funnel, but it's still a bit messy business as it's narrower than the basket.
> 
> Also, is Motta 53mm tamper the best you can get?


I'm sure there's a forum member who makes aluminum pf funnels of any size and height, I believe the thread is in the sales section.


----------



## stereoket

joey24dirt said:


> Ok so my phone went bang and I had everyone's orders on there so when you guys see this please can you just remind me what you wanted. I think there's only two of you who ordered both. I know @Kyle T has ordered both and I think @Beth71. The rest is a mystery lol


I had myself down for just the portafilter but am considering both now - lol. Am way from home so I'm just on Aeropress coffee at least I have a semi decent grinder here.


----------



## joey24dirt

stereoket said:


> I had myself down for just the portafilter but am considering both now - lol. Am way from home so I'm just on Aeropress coffee at least I have a semi decent grinder here.


Just let me know if you want a distributor and I'll get one ordered up


----------



## PPapa

Rakesh said:


> I'm sure there's a forum member who makes aluminum pf funnels of any size and height, I believe the thread is in the sales section.


Thanks. Google search never found that since it's under FS section and doesn't get indexed. Should just rely on CFUK search for these things!


----------



## Rakesh

I cant help but feel that the DTP needs a bigger drip tray, one that goes deeper into the storage compartment area and beyond, I know there's loads of room in there. Does anyone else feel as though this is needed, After about 2 flat whites it needs emptying which is just a PITA. Anyone have any idea how this could be done? Potentially 3D printing of an entirely new drip tray or finding someway to alter and extend the original?


----------



## supertom44

Been trying to dial in my espresso over the past few days and most of my attempts have been around the 30 second mark with 16g in and 32 out. However they have all been pretty sour so today I decided to grind finer. Apparently too fine, after the auto stop of 60 seconda I had only 26 out with 16 in. Strange thing is it tasted way better than any of the others.

So not really sure what direction to go in from here.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> I cant help but feel that the DTP needs a bigger drip tray, one that goes deeper into the storage compartment area and beyond, I know there's loads of room in there. Does anyone else feel as though this is needed, After about 2 flat whites it needs emptying which is just a PITA. Anyone have any idea how this could be done? Potentially 3D printing of an entirely new drip tray or finding someway to alter and extend the original?


I was thinking of just bolting the two tray together and drilling holes to let the expelled liquid into the next bit. Best I can come up with I'm afraid lol


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Been trying to dial in my espresso over the past few days and most of my attempts have been around the 30 second mark with 16g in and 32 out. However they have all been pretty sour so today I decided to grind finer. Apparently too fine, after the auto stop of 60 seconda I had only 26 out with 16 in. Strange thing is it tasted way better than any of the others.
> 
> So not really sure what direction to go in from here.


What grinder are you using?


----------



## supertom44

I'm using a virtuoso preciso, I've only been using the macro (larger) adjustments at the moment, so I can try and tweak it more accurately using the micro adjustment.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> I'm using a virtuoso preciso, I've only been using the macro (larger) adjustments at the moment, so I can try and tweak it more accurately using the micro adjustment.


I was just thinking similar. Sounds like you need small tweaks now


----------



## Rakesh

supertom44 said:


> Been trying to dial in my espresso over the past few days and most of my attempts have been around the 30 second mark with 16g in and 32 out. However they have all been pretty sour so today I decided to grind finer. Apparently too fine, after the auto stop of 60 seconda I had only 26 out with 16 in. Strange thing is it tasted way better than any of the others.
> 
> So not really sure what direction to go in from here.


Your adjustments are too large, you are choking the machine. Loosen the grind up, you should see the flow start around 10 seconds in, if it starts longer than 15 then loosen the grind up a very small amount, longer than 20 and it's choking.


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> I was thinking of just bolting the two tray together and drilling holes to let the expelled liquid into the next bit. Best I can come up with I'm afraid lol


That would work, and a smart idea too. I think I may actually do this very soon.

Anyone else got any ideas? I know someone has 3D printed a slim gaggia classic tray, suppose a larger sage one wouldnt be much harder. I would rather it slide in and click nice like the sage one does though as it really fits together satisfyingly.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> That would work, and a smart idea too. I think I may actually do this very soon.
> 
> Anyone else got any ideas? I know someone has 3D printed a slim gaggia classic tray, suppose a larger sage one wouldnt be much harder. I would rather it slide in and click nice like the sage one does though as it really fits together satisfyingly.


We need someone with a 3D printer  it's a definite bug bear the small tray.

Take photos please if you do tackle the drop tray it'll be great to see a solution.


----------



## Steady

joey24dirt said:


> I was thinking of just bolting the two tray together and drilling holes to let the expelled liquid into the next bit. Best I can come up with I'm afraid lol


My simple answer is to just use a small metal jug for most flushing or drips to cut down the liquid in the tray and I tend to do milk in the nespresso machine so no purging









The indicator is way too late to show you need to empty without dropping everything so I empty regularly as well.


----------



## joey24dirt

Steady said:


> My simple answer is to just use a small metal jug for most flushing or drips to cut down the liquid in the tray and I tend to do milk in the nespresso machine so no purging
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The indicator is way too late to show you need to empty without dropping everything so I empty regularly as well.


If you see the indicator it's way too late haha. I try to purge into a cup anyway to pre heat but still always end up full after a couple of bevvys


----------



## PPapa

Does the drip tray not coincide with the tank refill? I haven't had the DTP for long enough, but it feels like that.

I guess you could plumb out if you had access as well?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Does the drip tray not coincide with the tank refill? I haven't had the DTP for long enough, but it feels like that.
> 
> I guess you could plumb out if you had access as well?


Draining straight out to somewhere would be cool then you would never need worry.


----------



## DaveP

> Draining straight out to somewhere would be cool


Brilliant.. you've found a use for the rest of the 6mm tube


----------



## joey24dirt

DaveP said:


> Brilliant.. you've found a use for the rest of the 6mm tube


Haha yes. Just have a 5 litre bucket sat in the cupboard maybe 

I'm sure the wife would love that


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Haha yes. Just have a 5 litre bucket sat in the cupboard maybe
> 
> I'm sure the wife would love that


And another one of clean water to plumb in maybe?


----------



## jimbocz

I've thought about a bigger drip tray as well. I think if it were extended and enlarged to replace the hidden accessories drawer , it would be too unwieldy to empty without spillage. It's hard enough to empty as it is.

The real improvement I am waiting for is a high quality tamper that fits in the tamper holder like the stock one. I'm sure that would sell if someone made it.


----------



## joey24dirt

jimbocz said:


> I've thought about a bigger drip tray as well. I think if it were extended and enlarged to replace the hidden accessories drawer , it would be too unwieldy to empty without spillage. It's hard enough to empty as it is.
> 
> The real improvement I am waiting for is a high quality tamper that fits in the tamper holder like the stock one. I'm sure that would sell if someone made it.


Yeah lots of sloshing about trying to get to the sink haha.

The tamper would be awesome. The problem is you still wouldn't have much of a handle if it was to fit in the mag holder. The tamping gave wouldn't be too bad to change I don't think. Might look into that one


----------



## PPapa

Any chance this would work?

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-flat-tamper.html


----------



## Rakesh

PPapa said:


> Any chance this would work?
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-flat-tamper.html


Looks too wide at the top of the handle, do you reckon the motta wooden handle could be shaved down and a magnet placed in the top so it would click into place?


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Looks too wide at the top of the handle, do you reckon the motta wooden handle could be shaved down and a magnet placed in the top so it would click into place?


Yeah most things could be made to fit. It's just the small surface area into your palm that may not be that comfortable. I'll see if I can borrow my mates wood lathe and have a practice with some off cuts


----------



## PPapa

Rakesh said:


> Looks too wide at the top of the handle, do you reckon the motta wooden handle could be shaved down and a magnet placed in the top so it would click into place?


I thought the magnet was on the machine? I'll try to poke the tamper to the metal surface again when I'm back home.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I thought the magnet was on the machine? I'll try to poke the tamper to the metal surface again when I'm back home.


Yeah the magnet is on the machine


----------



## joey24dirt

Took this picture last night


----------



## khampal

I would've thought the magnet would not be powerful enough to hold something as heavy as the motta (even with the wooden handle shaved down). I'm only speculating though.


----------



## Rakesh

khampal said:


> I would've thought the magnet would not be powerful enough to hold something as heavy as the motta (even with the wooden handle shaved down). I'm only speculating though.


Good point.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Good point.


It might be ok. Could potentially make some jig like say a long bolt with various nuts for different weights as a test. I'm going to have to try it now lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Could work!! I've made the test weight slightly lighter to take into consideration less material on the motta handle when machines to fit.

As long as you have a metal plate similar to the stock tamper it will get a good hold of it.


----------



## DaveP

Nice nuts joey... nice nuts.


----------



## khampal

Oh very nice, happy that I'm wrong







Hopefully this leads the way for custom tampers that fit. Do I spy a new business opportunity for @joey24dirt?


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Oh very nice, happy that I'm wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this leads the way for custom tampers that fit. Do I spy a new business opportunity for @joey24dirt?


Hehe we will see. I'm definitely up for giving it a go especially with an old chunk of wood as a practice piece.

I'm loving this thread by the way. Loads of ideas coming together from everyone to get the most from the DTP


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> Hehe we will see. I'm definitely up for giving it a go especially with an old chunk of wood as a practice piece.
> 
> I'm loving this thread by the way. Loads of ideas coming together from everyone to get the most from the DTP


I agree, feels like we are the first to venture into some unknown territory with this machine, all the modifications seem shrouded in mistery with such a lack of information out there.


----------



## ATZ

Great thread guys! Read it all.

Question for all you DTP owners. This machine was originally on my radar for my birthday, but I potentially have the budget to stretch to the dual boiler with the sage pro grinder.

Is the dual boiler worth the extra or am I better spending more on a better grinder and sticking with the DTP. In fairness I'm a espresso, lungo and Americano drinker predominantly so wondering if the DB would be wasted on me, milk based drinks are a once or twice per week affair at best.


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Great thread guys! Read it all.
> 
> Question for all you DTP owners. This machine was originally on my radar for my birthday, but I potentially have the budget to stretch to the dual boiler with the sage pro grinder.
> 
> Is the dual boiler worth the extra or am I better spending more on a better grinder and sticking with the DTP. In fairness I'm a espresso, lungo and Americano drinker predominantly so wondering if the DB would be wasted on me, milk based drinks are a once or twice per week affair at best.


I think it depends how much you want to play about with things. I don't know much about the DB but I know you can tinker with loads of settings. The DTP is fixed temp with its PID so no movement there should you want to do that.

The DTP is a great machine though and I think overlooked a lot because they haven't been around as long as the likes of Silvia and classic. But for the price of them especially refurb/second hand they would be worth the punt. Spend big on the grinder I'd say and go with DTP


----------



## Rakesh

ATZ said:


> Great thread guys! Read it all.
> 
> Question for all you DTP owners. This machine was originally on my radar for my birthday, but I potentially have the budget to stretch to the dual boiler with the sage pro grinder.
> 
> Is the dual boiler worth the extra or am I better spending more on a better grinder and sticking with the DTP. In fairness I'm a espresso, lungo and Americano drinker predominantly so wondering if the DB would be wasted on me, milk based drinks are a once or twice per week affair at best.


You will not get far with the sage grinder, stick to spending more on a better grinder.


----------



## ATZ

Rakesh said:


> You will not get far with the sage grinder, stick to spending more on a better grinder.


Any recommendations? I can probably stretch to 2-300 with the DTP.


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Any recommendations? I can probably stretch to 2-300 with the DTP.


I think most of us have either a super jolly or the mignon. You can pick either up for your budget on the second hand market or even go for new with a mignon


----------



## Rakesh

ATZ said:


> Any recommendations? I can probably stretch to 2-300 with the DTP.


You could probably get a second hand major for that price


----------



## ATZ

Rakesh said:


> You could probably get a second hand major for that price


Clear your PMs @Rakesh


----------



## filthynines

Have to disagree with Rakesh re not getting far with a Sage grinder. Yes, it's not optimal, but it does a decent job. I've made coffees I enjoy for a year with the DTP + Smart Grinder combo. It's definitely not the end-game, though.


----------



## DaveP

> You will not get far with the sage grinder, stick to spending more on a better grinder.


+1 in defense of the humble Sage Smart Grinder Pro.

There are pros and cons in everything but..

Cons = Its not a commercial grade machine.

Pros = It can be purchased for a great price and is way way way more than adequate for a domestic situation


----------



## joey24dirt

Wheels may be in motion for a custom tamper. Just trying to figure out some bits with my mate and his wood lathe.... 

By the looks of things if it's just swapping the handle over from the motta to one the correct shape it should be easy.


----------



## Rakesh

If you've noticed, when the original tamper is in place, it has some wiggle room in its slot, perhaps if the motta one was cut slighter larger it would result in a smoother fit and would hold in place better if it doesn't work good you can always get it made smaller whereas if it is too small i assume it would be harder to make it larger


----------



## khampal

Thought it was about time I shared my DTP setup with you guys.

















Sorry about the lighting ... and the nespresso machine (it's my flatmates!).


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Thought it was about time I shared my DTP setup with you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 28583
> 
> 
> Sorry about the lighting ... and the nespresso machine (it's my flatmates!).


I like the shelf it's on. Great idea for extra storage


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> I like the shelf it's on. Great idea for extra storage


Thanks! It's actually some cheapo side table I bought from argos for my bedroom. Decided it was a bit small and I didn't like it that much, so I took it off it's base and stuck it under my DTP.







Useful for storing my milk pitchers/kalita wave/coffee tools/chocolate sprinkler. Also raises the DTP to a more comfortable height to work with.


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Thanks! It's actually some cheapo side table I bought from argos for my bedroom. Decided it was a bit small and I didn't like it that much, so I took it off it's base and stuck it under my DTP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Useful for storing my milk pitchers/kalita wave/coffee tools/chocolate sprinkler. Also raises the DTP to a more comfortable height to work with.


It's a great idea especially when space is tight. Building upwards for the win


----------



## Kyle T

Weekly clean done!


----------



## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> View attachment 28589
> 
> 
> Weekly clean done!


Won't be long and you'll have another pf to clean


----------



## Rakesh

Has anyone ever thought of using this basket on the DTP? https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/IMS-Double-Shot-Competition-Filter-Basket-1218g-Spaziale/m-2007.aspx it's an IMS basket designed for the La Spaziale which I believe is a basket size of 53.5mm, although the basket on the DTP is supposed to be 54mm, it just doesn't appear to be with 54mm tampers being too big and 53mm tampers although fitting, being not too snug. The basket would probably be better than the Sage one.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Has anyone ever thought of using this basket on the DTP? https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/IMS-Double-Shot-Competition-Filter-Basket-1218g-Spaziale/m-2007.aspx it's an IMS basket designed for the La Spaziale which I believe is a basket size of 53.5mm, although the basket on the DTP is supposed to be 54mm, it just doesn't appear to be with 54mm being too big and 53mm tampers although fitting, its not too snug. The basket would probably be better than the Sage one.


I've been wanting to try a different basket. I might get one  if they don't work I'll hopefully just advertise it on here


----------



## Rakesh

Kyle T said:


> Weekly clean done!


Reminded me to do mine! The machines are looking better for it now.


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> I've been wanting to try a different basket. I might get one  if they don't work I'll hopefully just advertise it on here


May be a silly question but what how much difference can a basket make?


----------



## joey24dirt

Probably none haha. I'm really not sure but it sounds like a good thing to try. It's likely to be a more precise basket leading to a better extraction. I could be wrong though


----------



## DaveP

supertom44 said:


> May be a silly question but what how much difference can a basket make?


Depends on the 'case'


----------



## joey24dirt

DaveP said:


> Depends on the 'case'


Oh Dave haha. I had a plan in place for tonight to get my soldering done but then the sparky from work rang and said a pumping station had gone down so that's screwed me up


----------



## DaveP

Hey ho.... its a living, lol


----------



## joey24dirt

DaveP said:


> Hey ho.... its a living, lol


I know just bad timing with getting kids to bed and stuff


----------



## khampal

Rakesh said:


> Has anyone ever thought of using this basket on the DTP? https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/IMS-Double-Shot-Competition-Filter-Basket-1218g-Spaziale/m-2007.aspx it's an IMS basket designed for the La Spaziale which I believe is a basket size of 53.5mm, although the basket on the DTP is supposed to be 54mm, it just doesn't appear to be with 54mm tampers being too big and 53mm tampers although fitting, being not too snug. The basket would probably be better than the Sage one.


The 65mm border is quite a bit larger than the one on the Sage's stock baskets, by at least 3mm. Could that be an issue?


----------



## Rakesh

khampal said:


> The 65mm border is quite a bit larger than the one on the Sage's stock baskets, by at least 3mm. Could that be an issue?


Perhaps, but with it being just the border I doubt @joey24dirt would have a problem with his as he could get it turned down slightly.


----------



## khampal

Rakesh said:


> Perhaps, but with it being just the border I doubt @joey24dirt would have a problem with his as he could get it turned down slightly.


The list grows larger @joey24dirt


----------



## joey24dirt

What do they mean by border? The diameter?


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> What do they mean by border? The diameter?


Yeah









Seems to be referred to as the border


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Yeah
> 
> View attachment 28600
> 
> 
> Seems to be referred to as the border


Ah ok. Did you say you had measured the basket in the sage?


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> Ah ok. Did you say you had measured the basket in the sage?


Yes seems to be 62mm, though probably best if somebody double checks that


----------



## joey24dirt

I'll get out my measuring stick once the kids are in bed


----------



## joey24dirt

If the group head hole is big enough they could work though  it's only another 1.5mm either side


----------



## joey24dirt

It could work if you can shave off the edge of the basket or.... shave off some of the plastic insert on the grouphead. Either way something's getting shaved haha


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> It could work if you can shave off the edge of the basket or.... shave off some of the plastic insert on the grouphead. Either way something's getting shaved haha


That gets me thinking, could the plastic insert be replaced so the machine accepts standard 53mm portafilters instead? Then we would have a wider range of portafilters, baskets etc to choose from.


----------



## Rakesh

khampal said:


> That gets me thinking, could the plastic insert be replaced so the machine accepts standard 53mm portafilters instead? Then we would have a wider range of portafilters, baskets etc to choose from.


I suspect you mean 58mm baskets? If so that would be possible it would open up a world of possibilities for the DTP.


----------



## khampal

Rakesh said:


> I suspect you mean 58mm baskets? If that would be possible it would open up a world of possibilities for the DTP.


I think both 58mm and 53mm are both standard sizes, 58mm being more common. But 53mm is probably going to be easier.


----------



## Rakesh

khampal said:


> I think both 58mm and 53mm are both standard sizes, 58mm being more common. But 53mm is probably going to be easier.


I agree, makes all the La spaz gear usable on the DTP then.


----------



## Lilybell2

supertom44 said:


> May be a silly question but what how much difference can a basket make?


A basket can indeed make a difference: (Note that the VST baskets mentioned in the following linked topics are quite similar to IMS baskets)

http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/04-29-2011

https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/how-filter-baskets-affect-espresso-taste-and-barista-technique-t18743.html


----------



## khampal

Rakesh said:


> I agree, makes all the La spaz gear usable on the DTP then.


Exactly


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> I think both 58mm and 53mm are both standard sizes, 58mm being more common. But 53mm is probably going to be easier.


I'm not sure if that would work. I dare say the internals would be totally different and certain the 58mm handle only has two lugs whereas we have three on the dtp


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> I'm not sure if that would work. I dare say the internals would be totally different and certain the 58mm handle only has two lugs whereas we have three on the dtp


Yeah that's what I mean by modifying/replacing the plastic part (the collar insert) to work with the 2 lugs of a standard 53mm portafilter. Of course, there could be other complications, like ensuring a tight fit with gasket and so on.


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Yeah that's what I mean by modifying/replacing the plastic part (the collar insert) to work with the 2 lugs of a standard 53mm portafilter. Of course, there could be other complications, like ensuring a tight fit with gasket and so on.


Different sized gasket also. I'll take the hit with one of these baskets though I think. Never know it might be an easy mod like just rolling the edges over a little bit more. Fingers crossed


----------



## lake_m

Lilybell2 said:


> A basket can indeed make a difference: (Note that the VST baskets mentioned in the following linked topics are quite similar to IMS baskets)
> 
> http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/04-29-2011
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/how-filter-baskets-affect-espresso-taste-and-barista-technique-t18743.html


I don't know about the quality of the Sage baskets, but the standard La Spaziale ones were shocking. The IMS baskets made a significant difference in pour evenness and reduced channelling.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> I don't know about the quality of the Sage baskets, but the standard La Spaziale ones were shocking. The IMS baskets made a significant difference in pour evenness and reduced channelling.


Do you have the basket we are talking about mate? I'm just after some better pictures of one if possible


----------



## Rakesh

After doing some basket research it seems that the sage baskets actually are very good standard basket with a high ratio of open to closed area which I believe can make a difference in the shot.


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> Do you have the basket we are talking about mate? I'm just after some better pictures of one if possible


Yes I've got the 18g double and 21g tripple. I'm off out now but will do it when I get back.


----------



## lake_m

OK here you go guys......

65mm dia

5mm lip

26mm depth (18g double)


----------



## DaveP

Looks more like a 'treble' to me (21g 'ish)


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> OK here you go guys......
> 
> 65mm dia
> 
> 5mm lip
> 
> 26mm depth (18g double)
> 
> View attachment 28614
> 
> 
> View attachment 28615
> 
> 
> View attachment 28616


Legend thanks mate .


----------



## ATZ

So I have a DTP on the way from a forum member, will post pics of the set up once received - excited to be getting back into manual espresso!

@joey24dirt are you still doing the naked DTP portafilters?


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> So I have a DTP on the way from a forum member, will post pics of the set up once received - excited to be getting back into manual espresso!
> 
> @joey24dirt are you still doing the naked DTP portafilters?


I'll be ringing sage on Friday to see how many I can order. They have been a bit of a nightmare to be honest lol. I can see about getting one for you if you like?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> I'll be ringing sage on Friday to see how many I can order. They have been a bit of a nightmare to be honest lol. I can see about getting one for you if you like?


I was thinking on suggesting to ask them for a discount, but they sounds like a nightmare already!

I might piggyback the request as well if you don't mind


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I was thinking on suggesting to ask them for a discount, but they sounds like a nightmare already!
> 
> I might piggyback the request as well if you don't mind


I'll see what they say on Friday I'm hoping to get 10 but they are pretty much spoken for lol. You can always buy your own though and I'll happily modify it for you.


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> I'll be ringing sage on Friday to see how many I can order. They have been a bit of a nightmare to be honest lol. I can see about getting one for you if you like?


If you could that'd be awesome!


----------



## joey24dirt

@ATZ @PPapa you guys would make the pf order up to ten if you want in. I'll sacrifice the one I wanted to order for myself until another time lol


----------



## PPapa

I'm not in a rush, so if you need one, I'll wait


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I'm not in a rush, so if you need one, I'll wait


Don't need one either really lol. It was just so I had spouted as an option, but I never really used it to make two drinks at once so probably pointless haha


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> @ATZ @PPapa you guys would make the pf order up to ten if you want in. I'll sacrifice the one I wanted to order for myself until another time lol


 @joey24dirt I'll definitely take one if it's not too much trouble.


----------



## joey24dirt

I'll order Friday hopefully like mentioned. I'll need the payment up front though if that's ok with you guys? That's what the other members have done.


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> I'll order Friday hopefully like mentioned. I'll need the payment up front though if that's ok with you guys? That's what the other members have done.


Sure, let me know your details.


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> I'll order Friday hopefully like mentioned. I'll need the payment up front though if that's ok with you guys? That's what the other members have done.


Sure, PM payment details please @joey24dirt


----------



## Rakesh

@joey24dirt Delete some of your PM's mate, wont let me reply cos your inbox is full.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> @joey24dirt Delete some of your PM's mate, wont let me reply cos your inbox is full.


Thanks mate


----------



## Rakesh

Weird, usually when flushing through my dtp i notice the majority of the water is flowing from the right side of the shower screen. I pay this no attention as my shots come out fine with even extraction and I assumed that it was just a dtp quirk.

Then today I decided to clean behind my shower screen as usual, unscrewed the centre bolt, removed the screen with a little wiggle, brushed between where the fins slot in to the group, I then for some reason flushed through the group without the shower screen in place. The water flowed out the right side of the group out of a tiny hole, I thought this is why more water must come out of the right side with the shower screen in place. I then replaced the shower screen and pulled a shot, the pre infusion sounded quieter (Strange) and the ramp up to full pressure louder. The shot poured normally, nice thick flow of Brighton Lanes goodness into my cup. Then when flushing after the shot I noticed the water flowed evenly throughout the whole shower screen (Good thing I presume). Just thought this was strange as I clean behind the screen more than I backflush and have never experienced this before, anyone else found this before?


----------



## joey24dirt

I did notice the single hole though when it was in pieces the other night. Good idea to flush that on its own with no screen in place


----------



## ATZ

Do people time their shots or go for weight on the DTP? And if it's the latter what scales do you use peeps?


----------



## PPapa

ATZ said:


> Do people time their shots or go for weight on the DTP? And if it's the latter what scales do you use peeps?


Both. Acaia Pearl.


----------



## DaveP

ATZ said:


> Do people time their shots or go for weight on the DTP? And if it's the latter what scales do you use peeps?


All of the above and scales are cheap ones from Banggood


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Do people time their shots or go for weight on the DTP? And if it's the latter what scales do you use peeps?


Mainly weight with time as a bit of a reference point.

While I'm on I've just rang sage. I was told that the portafilters still aren't in stock due to them coming by boat now and not by air  sorry guys we will get there eventually.


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> Mainly weight with time as a bit of a reference point.


What scales do you use @joey24dirt ??



joey24dirt said:


> While I'm on I've just rang sage. I was told that the portafilters still aren't in stock due to them coming by boat now and not by air  sorry guys we will get there eventually.


That's ok, not your fault. Did they have an ETA?


----------



## ATZ

Double post


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Double post


Scales.... I just use some of the cheap ones from amazon.....

Amir Digital Scales, (500g/ 0.01g) High-precision Pocket Food Scales, Jewelry Scales, Multifunctional Pro Scales with Back-Lit LCD Display, Tare and PCS Features, Stainless Steel for Easter, Batteries Included https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01JKX4QAC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_uKbOzbGKFK8RT

The on button is sometimes a little bit funny but seem ok and for the money they are great. You can balance the pf on them too!

Yeah sage couldn't give an eta but they have made notes to contact me once they know. Such a nightmare but it will be worth it haha.


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> Scales.... I just use some of the cheap ones from amazon.....
> 
> Amir Digital Scales, (500g/ 0.01g) High-precision Pocket Food Scales, Jewelry Scales, Multifunctional Pro Scales with Back-Lit LCD Display, Tare and PCS Features, Stainless Steel for Easter, Batteries Included https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01JKX4QAC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_uKbOzbGKFK8RT


Ordered.

Do they sit on the drip tray as you're pulling the shot?


----------



## DaveP

ATZ said:


> Ordered.


By strange coincidence (spooky)... they are the same as mine

BUT... I got mine from china and paid a bit more, lol


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Ordered.
> 
> Do they sit on the drip tray as you're pulling the shot?


Yup. They come in two clear plastic covers. I sit the scales in the plastic when on the drip tray to stop the vented steam from getting into them


----------



## khampal

Got this beauty today, let's see if it improves my DTP shots.


----------



## ATZ

Set up inherited from @Beanbag It arrived and I set it up this evening:


----------



## ATZ

Took me about 7 shots to dial it, still don't think it's quite right, any feedback on these pics below of grind size, shot and the resultant puck? Which given the machine doesn't have a 3 way solenoid valve I was very impressed with!


----------



## Rakesh

@ATZ Be careful with the mazzer adjustment collar, it only takes a mm turn to fine tune, if you're adjusting by whole notches then every shot is going to be different.


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Took me about 7 shots to dial it, still don't think it's quite right, any feedback on these pics below of grind size, shot and the resultant puck? Which given the machine doesn't have a 3 way solenoid valve I was very impressed with!
> 
> View attachment 28744
> View attachment 28746
> View attachment 28742


Same set up as me  erm it's hard to say without any figures to go off. Really need to know weight going in and out.

You ordered those scales didn't you?

The grind looks a little bit coarse but again it's hard to tell without weights lol


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> Same set up as me  erm it's hard to say without any figures to go off. Really need to know weight going in and out.
> 
> You ordered those scales didn't you?
> 
> The grind looks a little bit coarse but again it's hard to tell without weights lol


Scales should be here in the morning.

On my inaccurate (+/- 1g) kitchen ones it was 18g going in and about 38g coming out in 30 secs. Didn't taste quite right though.


----------



## ATZ

Rakesh said:


> @ATZ Be careful with the mazzer adjustment collar, it only takes a mm turn to fine tune, if you're adjusting by whole notches then every shot is going to be different.


Does this mean I'm going to have to dial it in for every different type of bean I use?


----------



## Rakesh

ATZ said:


> Scales should be here in the morning.
> 
> On my inaccurate (+/- 1g) kitchen ones it was 18g going in and about 38g coming out in 30 secs. Didn't taste quite right though.


Dont adjust according to time, adjust according to taste. Aim to hit 18:38 if that's your ratio and if it tastes over extracted then loosen grind, under extracted then tighten the grind.


----------



## DaveP

> Does this mean I'm going to have to dial it in for every different type of bean I use?


Some times .. no

Other times ... yes


----------



## ATZ

Rakesh said:


> Dont adjust according to time, adjust according to taste. Aim to hit 18:38 if that's your ratio and if it tastes over extracted then loosen grind, under extracted then tighten the grind.


Sour for under extracted and too bitter for over extracted? It's so difficult to know at this point! Lol


----------



## ATZ

@Rakesh I also definitely think there's a right hand side bias to this machine. I managed to choke it twice with some overly find grinding and over zealous tamping too.


----------



## Rakesh

ATZ said:


> Sour for under extracted and too bitter for over extracted? It's so difficult to know at this point! Lol


In general yeah, but under/over extraction on some beans may taste different to others. The more beans you try the better you will get at dialling in.

Try not to go on a full 10+ shot dial in session, we've all been there and being wired for the rest of the day isn't really pleasant, just aim to get in a good ball park and drink your shots as normal, making slight adjustments after each shot to make the next shot better.

Dialling in is really a continuous process and you will be adjusting grind nearly every day as the beans age and inevitably approach staleness.


----------



## Rakesh

ATZ said:


> and over zealous tamping too.


If having tamp pressure trouble refer to https://baristahustle.com/blogs/barista-hustle/how-hard-should-you-tamp


----------



## ATZ

Rakesh said:


> If having tamp pressure trouble refer to https://baristahustle.com/blogs/barista-hustle/how-hard-should-you-tamp


Good read that and understood


----------



## CardinalBiggles

I see you have a three slope distribution Tamper there too.... how are you getting on with it? I'm thinking of getting one......


----------



## joey24dirt

CardinalBiggles said:


> I see you have a three slope distribution Tamper there too.... how are you getting on with it? I'm thinking of getting one......


It's not bad to be honest. I have a flat one also for a final tamp. It does get the puck pretty much perfect and very rare do I see channelling.

Those were just cheap 58mm distributors off eBay that I had machined to suit


----------



## ATZ

@joey24dirt any update on the naked portafilters? Or still waiting on Sage?


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> @joey24dirt any update on the naked portafilters? Or still waiting on Sage?


I spoke to the girl last week and she says they are imminent. I'm waiting for them to email me so I can order them up. It's been a bit of a nightmare so apologies for the long wait. Hopefully it won't be much longer


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> I spoke to the girl last week and she says they are imminent. I'm waiting for them to email me so I can order them up. It's been a bit of a nightmare so apologies for the long wait. Hopefully it won't be much longer


Hey, ultimately it's not your fault and I really do appreciate you doing this on behalf of forum members.

How did you find the NPF improved your shots?


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Hey, ultimately it's not your fault and I really do appreciate you doing this on behalf of forum members.
> 
> How did you find the NPF improved your shots?


It's ok I like to try help where possible.

The naked pf allows you to identify flaws that you may or may not have. So an uneven tamp might extract from left to right which is my main issue haha. So you can adjust tamp.

Or it will show channelling/spurting which would be poor distribution.... I think haha.

Plus it's great to see the "money shot" when you get a perfect extraction haha


----------



## DaveP

And also allows the use of a deeper basket when needed for well..... a larger shot.


----------



## joey24dirt

DaveP said:


> And also allows a deeper basket for well..... a larger shot.


Do we know if there are baskets available to fit the sage yet? I was going to take a punt on one but can't remember what it was lol


----------



## DaveP

This says compatible with 53mm (but I don't have a sage portafilter to hand, lol)

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/IMS-Precision-Filter-Basket-21g-Spaziale---B652TM32M/m-2024.aspx


----------



## joey24dirt

DaveP said:


> This says compatible with 53mm (but I don't have a sage portafilter to hand, lol)
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/IMS-Precision-Filter-Basket-21g-Spaziale---B652TM32M/m-2024.aspx


Ah yes that's the one. I think I measured it up and it would need some trimming to fit the machine. May just go for it and see.

I've noticed with my current basket that even though it's clear and free from debris, I still get a few spots that takes ages to get coffee flowing through.


----------



## khampal

ATZ said:


> Hey, ultimately it's not your fault and I really do appreciate you doing this on behalf of forum members.
> 
> How did you find the NPF improved your shots?


I think switching to the NPF improved my shots massively. Obviously just switching to the NPF isn't going to magically make things better, but on the first few tries my shots went all over me! After improving my tamping and distribution techniques, I can get espresso porn nearly all the time now and my shots taste much better because of that.


----------



## ATZ

khampal said:


> I think switching to the NPF improved my shots massively. Obviously just switching to the NPF isn't going to magically make things better, but on the first few tries my shots went all over me! After improving my tamping and distribution techniques, I can get espresso porn nearly all the time now and my shots taste much better because of that.


This is what I'm hoping! That it helps with problem solving


----------



## joey24dirt

Pushing my luck maybe?


----------



## DaveP

> Pushing my luck maybe?


Not yet... theres still room for another grinder


----------



## joey24dirt

DaveP said:


> Not yet... theres still room for another grinder


Ahh forgot to put it on there. It's on the table behind them


----------



## M3Tz

Hey guys, just wanted to say hi..

just made the switch from a blade type grinder to a sage pro, and from a delonghi dedica(great little machine but it only has pressurised baskets) to a Sage DTP

I've managed to dial in some decaf I have from crankhouse, 18g in and 36g out using my kitchen scales, not sure if this is right but I start the timer from when the coffee starts to come out of the basket, which 36g is around 22seconds plus a few drips










I have noticed sometimes the coffee gets stuck to the screen? do you guys find that?

My settings are grind setting 9 for 14.6 secconds which gives me 18g

I feel the amount of liquid isn't quite as much as if I ordered a double from a coffee shop? what do you guys think?

Thanks


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> Pushing my luck maybe?


How do you find the Gaggia Classic vs the DTP? I remember debating whether to get the Gaggia or Sage when I first decided to get an espresso machine, before (obviously) settling on the DTP. Did I make the right choice?


----------



## joey24dirt

M3Tz said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to say hi..
> 
> just made the switch from a blade type grinder to a sage pro, and from a delonghi dedica(great little machine but it only has pressurised baskets) to a Sage DTP
> 
> I've managed to dial in some decaf I have from crankhouse, 18g in and 36g out using my kitchen scales, not sure if this is right but I start the timer from when the coffee starts to come out of the basket, which 36g is around 22seconds plus a few drips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have noticed sometimes the coffee gets stuck to the screen? do you guys find that?
> 
> My settings are grind setting 9 for 14.6 secconds which gives me 18g
> 
> I feel the amount of liquid isn't quite as much as if I ordered a double from a coffee shop? what do you guys think?
> 
> Thanks


Hi welcome to the group.

I tend to use a rough 1:2 ratio in about 30 seconds from when I turn the pump on, and not from when I see coffee coming out. It's a more accurate way to time.

Do you mean the whole puck sticks to the screen? I used to find that happened to me and I can't remember if it was down to not having enough in the basket to begin with or if there was too much. I've never used decaf so can't really judge on that one.

Is the sage grinder the one with the digital screen or the one with just the dial and button? I'm just wondering what setting your burrs are on.


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> How do you find the Gaggia Classic vs the DTP? I remember debating whether to get the Gaggia or Sage when I first decided to get an espresso machine, before (obviously) settling on the DTP. Did I make the right choice?


I've only made one drink with it so far and it was pretty good considering I don't have a proper tamper yet. I think with the sage you can't go wrong so I wouldn't worry too much about the choice you made.

You'll know in due course which one I favour as there can be only one stood next to the mazzer haha.


----------



## khampal

M3Tz said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to say hi..
> 
> just made the switch from a blade type grinder to a sage pro, and from a delonghi dedica(great little machine but it only has pressurised baskets) to a Sage DTP
> 
> I've managed to dial in some decaf I have from crankhouse, 18g in and 36g out using my kitchen scales, not sure if this is right but I start the timer from when the coffee starts to come out of the basket, which 36g is around 22seconds plus a few drips
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have noticed sometimes the coffee gets stuck to the screen? do you guys find that?
> 
> My settings are grind setting 9 for 14.6 secconds which gives me 18g
> 
> I feel the amount of liquid isn't quite as much as if I ordered a double from a coffee shop? what do you guys think?
> 
> Thanks


Yeah the puck sometimes sticks to the screen. If that happens, I just nudge it off and back into the portafilter.

By sage pro, do you mean dose control pro or the smart grinder pro?

Edit: didn't see joey24dirt already said the same thing lol


----------



## M3Tz

Hi,

Thanks for the replies...

its the smart grinder pro, the one with the digital display.

I'm glad you guys get the same issue.. I was wondering if it was something I was doing wrong.

Whats the max grams dose the basket would take? to increase the amount I get in the cup should I try to increase the dose but keep the same ratio?


----------



## Rakesh

M3Tz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the replies...
> 
> its the smart grinder pro, the one with the digital display.
> 
> I'm glad you guys get the same issue.. I was wondering if it was something I was doing wrong.
> 
> Whats the max grams dose the basket would take? to increase the amount I get in the cup should I try to increase the dose but keep the same ratio?


Ratio doesn't determine how much you get in the cup, it just determines the strength. However if you increase dose you will get more in the cup, albeit not much as the max the basket will hold is about 19-20g. If you want bigger drink try an americano.


----------



## khampal

M3Tz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the replies...
> 
> its the smart grinder pro, the one with the digital display.
> 
> I'm glad you guys get the same issue.. I was wondering if it was something I was doing wrong.
> 
> Whats the max grams dose the basket would take? to increase the amount I get in the cup should I try to increase the dose but keep the same ratio?


Setting 9 seems about right, when I used my SGP for espresso I was usually in the 5-14 range depending on the lightness of the roast etc.

I think the unpressurised double basket (I'm assuming you're using this) is designed for 16.5g +- 1.5g doses. I tend to go for the 18g doses myself, you could try upping the dose but may have sub optimal results. I'm not sure.

You can of course pull the shot for longer if you wish, after all a traditional double espresso is 60ml (with lungos being double this and caffe cremas being double this again). It all depends on your tastes.


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Setting 9 seems about right, when I used my SGP for espresso I was usually in the 5-14 range depending on the lightness of the roast etc.
> 
> I think the unpressurised double basket (I'm assuming you're using this) is designed for 16.5g +- 1.5g doses. I tend to go for the 18g doses myself, you could try upping the dose but may have sub optimal results. I'm not sure.
> 
> You can of course pull the shot for longer if you wish, after all a traditional double espresso is 60ml (with lungos being double this and caffe cremas being double this again). It all depends on your tastes.


Can you alter the burrs on that model?


----------



## khampal

joey24dirt said:


> Can you alter the burrs on that model?


Yeah you can adjust the upper burrs. I ended up leaving mine on the default setting because they're massive hassle to use them like a microadjustment.


----------



## joey24dirt

khampal said:


> Yeah you can adjust the upper burrs. I ended up leaving mine on the default setting because they're massive hassle to use them like a microadjustment.


On my basic dose control model I think I ended up shifting down to the finest it would go and then about number 5-6 on the adjustment dial. Didn't leave a lot of room to move but that's where I got the best grind I found.


----------



## joey24dirt

Little tip. Extend the drip tray float by a couple of mm with some bright tape. It's like an early warning system hah!


----------



## mctrials23

So I was reading that the tamp pressure doesn't make any difference to shot once you have compacted the coffee as far as it will go which is apparently quite a small amount of pressure. This doesn't sound right to me. I was getting a lot of variance in shot quality until I decreased the fineness of my grind and tamped with more pressure. I'm also pretty sure that I can tamp hard enough with even a relatively coarse grind so that the machine gets blocked.

What are peoples thoughts on this?

I'm still struggling after 3 months with my DTP and DCP to get decent espresso. Any milk based drink is very forgiving on the shot I find but pure espresso is really hard to do well as far as I can tell. When I go to a good cafe and get a good espresso its a country mile better than anything I am managing.

Once I get a bottomless PF and distributor I hope that I will be able to diagnose my issue a bit better but I can't seem to get an espresso shot that isn't either slightly bitter or sour.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> So I was reading that the tamp pressure doesn't make any difference to shot once you have compacted the coffee as far as it will go which is apparently quite a small amount of pressure. This doesn't sound right to me. I was getting a lot of variance in shot quality until I decreased the fineness of my grind and tamped with more pressure. I'm also pretty sure that I can tamp hard enough with even a relatively coarse grind so that the machine gets blocked.
> 
> What are peoples thoughts on this?
> 
> I'm still struggling after 3 months with my DTP and DCP to get decent espresso. Any milk based drink is very forgiving on the shot I find but pure espresso is really hard to do well as far as I can tell. When I go to a good cafe and get a good espresso its a country mile better than anything I am managing.
> 
> Once I get a bottomless PF and distributor I hope that I will be able to diagnose my issue a bit better but I can't seem to get an espresso shot that isn't either slightly bitter or sour.


What settings do you have your grinder at? I had mine adjusted as fine as possible on the burrs and then about 5-7 on the dial depending on the beans


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> What settings do you have your grinder at? I had mine adjusted as fine as possible on the burrs and then about 5-7 on the dial depending on the beans


I was on 3 on the burrs and 8-10 on the dial before but for a week or so I have been running it at 3 on the burrs and 16 on the dial and just tamping really hard which seems to produce a better shot overall but still not amazing. When I was on a finer setting I was tamping much more lightly.


----------



## joey24dirt

You shouldn't need to tamp hard if you have the coffee fine enough. Go to as fine as you can on burrs and see how you get on.

I literally just give a soft tamp with a little lean on the tamper and a quick spin (don't know why I do that)

If you're having to really tamp hard is must be that you're too coarse.


----------



## mctrials23

Ive just tried 2 shots at 1 on the burrs and 7 and 10 on the dial and both clogged the machine even with a light tamp. Lots of clumping as well.


----------



## joey24dirt

Don't worry about the clumping too much. Knock the clumps away with a cocktail stick. Now repeat but move your dial a few steps coarser and see what happens. Sorry if you end up going through some beans.


----------



## mctrials23

I've knocked it up to 1 on the burr and 15 on the dial and its still clogging but coffee eventually comes through. After 90s or so I had 36g.

Funny thing is that it actually tastes kind of OK. At least as good as I was getting before, probably better. Thats with a very light tamp as well

Don't worry about the beans by the way! I would rather waste a kilo of beans and figure out how to get great espresso than waste none and continue for years with rubbish espresso.

edit:

Tried again with 1 on burrs 18 on dial and a very light tamp and that seems nice actually. Took a bit longer than I expected to start coming through but I did 18g in 36g out and its a nice shot (I think, I might have drunk too much coffee to be objective at this point).

Can you explain the idea of tamping so lightly? I have seen a number of shops tamp really lightly especially when I have been in france. They seem to barely tamp at all at the coffee shop I usually go to in fontainebleau yet their coffee is great. Whenever I watch a video on youtube however almost every single person tamps quite hard.


----------



## DaveP

> Can you explain the idea of tamping so lightly?


No.. but

Its all about finding a sweet spot (and being able to repeat it (with the same bean that is))

So remembering that tamping is just one step in the operation, and providing its a 'constant' then adjust the other steps to suite.

There is a belief the x lbs (or kg) pressure on the tamp is the only way, but as there are a few different school of thoughts on how many then you could think that a constant is more important.

Soooooooooooo get the tamp pressure you want and then adjust grind size to suit the common extraction time, which of course can depend on the machine peak water pressure, pre infusion and so on times

There are videos of some champions whos tamp pressure is a simple flick of the wrist, but as above .. we don't know how their machine is set up


----------



## joey24dirt

What @DaveP said. Yeah just make sure you're consistently consistent lol. See what sort of times they are coming through at. I know the 'standard' 30 seconds is always mentioned but just use that as a rough gauge, that's all I do. Hopefully we have managed to help


----------



## mctrials23

You've both been really helpful, I really appreciate the advice. I was kind of resigned to producing average espresso with my setup but you have given me renewed hope of getting something much better from it. I have 1kg of beans coming tomorrow and I will take a bit of time mucking about with the grind size and tamp pressure within the rough bounds of where I ended today on.

I have pre-ordered one of those niche grinders on indiegogo so hopefully when that arrives it will be a much better grinder than the DCP. Thats still 6-9 months away though so until then I will do my best.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> I have pre-ordered one of those niche grinders


They look really good so it will be nice to see what you think about it when it shows up.

Hopefully these portafilters will be in stock soon too so you can really get into shot examination


----------



## mctrials23

I'm expecting good things from it based on the review by dave (i think...) and yeah, I'm expecting to see a horror show when I get my hands on the bottomless PF.


----------



## lake_m

mctrials23 said:


> I have pre-ordered one of those niche grinders on indiegogo so hopefully when that arrives it will be a much better grinder than the DCP. Thats still 6-9 months away though so until then I will do my best.


It will be 'night and day'. Long wait though


----------



## joey24dirt

Screw it. Worth a punt to see if it will fit. Early birthday present for me if the wife questions it


----------



## Rakesh

mctrials23 said:


> So I was reading that the tamp pressure doesn't make any difference to shot once you have compacted the coffee as far as it will go which is apparently quite a small amount of pressure. This doesn't sound right to me. I was getting a lot of variance in shot quality until I decreased the fineness of my grind and tamped with more pressure. I'm also pretty sure that I can tamp hard enough with even a relatively coarse grind so that the machine gets blocked.
> 
> What are peoples thoughts on this?


Keep tamp firm and consistent, id be surprised if you could choke a machine with a hard tamp on a coarse grind. You are correct in reading tamp pressure makes little difference to the shot after maximum density is achieved, ie tamping until the grounds stop compressing.

You can never over do tamping pressure, the hulk couldn't over do it. There is a lot of myths and bullspit about tamping, I always think the barista hustle article on tamping pressure is the best place to read up on how much pressure to use. Hope I could help.


----------



## joey24dirt

Nice little flat white knocked out of the DTP. Such an amazing little machine 










Edit (for my own reference)

this was 17.5grams in and 30 ish out. Not sure about the time but seemed around 35-40 seconds.


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> Screw it. Worth a punt to see if it will fit. Early birthday present for me if the wife questions it


Just make it fit Joey!


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> Just make it fit Joey!


I honestly don't think it's far off. Maybe fold the edges a little bit more. We will see


----------



## ATZ

Getting there with the flat white and latte art, any tips? Getting the milk consistency right seems to be my issue.


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Getting there with the flat white and latte art, any tips? Getting the milk consistency right seems to be my issue.
> 
> View attachment 28959


Looks great. Have you tried just pouring a simple heart? I think it was @JimBean1 who mentioned this, and since then I occasionally just do a heart. This seems to help me almost for the next few pours.


----------



## supertom44

Random question, when pulling a shot, how long after turning off the pump do you allow the portafilter to drip into your shot before removing the shot from underneath.

I normally remove the shot as soon as I turn the pump off, just wondering if that's the best way.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Random question, when pulling a shot, how long after turning off the pump do you allow the portafilter to drip into your shot before removing the shot from underneath.
> 
> I normally remove the shot as soon as I turn the pump off, just wondering if that's the best way.


Are you weighing the shot when you do that? I would do something similar, look to hit my target weight and then removed so I don't go over that.

With that mod I did on my machine though once you hit the button it stops any further flow  it's only really any benefit though if weighing what you are getting out. Hope that makes sense..... it's early.... kids are screaming.... etc lol


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> Are you weighing the shot when you do that? I would do something similar, look to hit my target weight and then removed so I don't go over that.
> 
> With that mod I did on my machine though once you hit the button it stops any further flow  it's only really any benefit though if weighing what you are getting out. Hope that makes sense..... it's early.... kids are screaming.... etc lol


Haha yeah that makes sense, reading about your mod was what triggered this question.

I do weigh my shots and normally when I get close to my target weight I'll kill the pump, let the flow slow to drips, hopefully judging it well enough to top it up to my target weight then remove the shot.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Haha yeah that makes sense, reading about your mod was what triggered this question.
> 
> I do weigh my shots and normally when I get close to my target weight I'll kill the pump, let the flow slow to drips, hopefully judging it well enough to top it up to my target weight then remove the shot.


That's the way I think most people do it. You definitely get used to it don't you and normally aren't too far away


----------



## joey24dirt

Guys guys guys.&#8230;&#8230;.......










Portafilters have been ordered!! You have no idea how happy I am haha. Thank you all for being so patient. Once they have arrived I'll do the necessary mods and then get them shipped out asap.

@Matius84 @mctrials23 @Moor if you guys are still interested can you PM me please to sort out the details. Thanks guys. Exciting times


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> Portafilters have been ordered!! You have no idea how happy I am haha. Thank you all for being so patient. Once they have arrived I'll do the necessary mods and then get them shipped out asap.


Excellent news @joey24dirt !!!


----------



## PPapa

I wonder how long it will take for Sage to realise there's a demand on naked portafilters...

Glad to have Joe around who's tinkering with the machine. I have once disassembled a running PC and shortened the PSU (no idea how did I survive, that was over a decade ago now), so I don't touch electronics due to being a muppet. Even though I've done some electronic engineering at uni as well...


----------



## Beth71

joey24dirt said:


> Guys guys guys.&#8230;&#8230;.......


Woohoo


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I wonder how long it will take for Sage to realise there's a demand on naked portafilters...
> 
> Glad to have Joe around who's tinkering with the machine. I have once disassembled a running PC and shortened the PSU (no idea how did I survive, that was over a decade ago now), so I don't touch electronics due to being a muppet. Even though I've done some electronic engineering at uni as well...


I was once doing some PAT electrical testing. Condemned an extension lead so cut the plug off. Forgot I'd left it plugged in and switched on. Big Bang


----------



## Matius84

Im definitely still interested ��


----------



## joey24dirt

The ims basket has arrived. It fits in the pf ok (bit tight going past the spring) and looks like it's only going to need the lip folding back a little bit. Shouldn't be too much of an issue doing that.


----------



## DaveP

Next time... ridgeless


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> The ims basket has arrived. It fits in the pf ok (bit tight going past the spring) and looks like it's only going to need the lip folding back a little bit. Shouldn't be too much of an issue doing that.


You can take the spring out or loosen it a bit?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> You can take the spring out or loosen it a bit?


It will be ok to be honest. Once it's in it's in if you get me


----------



## mctrials23

Whats the idea of getting a different basket joey?


----------



## joey24dirt

This is the ims basket. Very close fit but if you pop it in the pf then bend it to the shape of the pf it will go.

You could shave some off the brew head assembly to give more space if you can be bothered to go for a full strip. Or even a dremel up into it to get to that black composite plastic. Loads of mess involved there though.

Only made one drink with it and that wasn't for me so I've no idea what it was like. Looked like a good pour though. Bags of room in the basket also if you wanted to squeeze more grounds in there.


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> Very close fit but if you pop it in the pf then bend it to the shape of the pf it will go.
> 
> You could shave some off the brew head assembly to give more space if you can be bothered to go for a full strip. Or even a dremel up into it to get to that black composite plastic. Loads of mess involved there though.
> 
> Only made one drink with it and that wasn't for me so I've no idea what it was like. Looked like a good pour though. Bags of room in the basket also if you wanted to squeeze more grounds in there.


When you say it will go, what do you mean? Does it work? It looks good and i'd love to have an IMS for the dtp.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> When you say it will go, what do you mean? Does it work? It looks good and i'd love to have an IMS for the dtp.


So the black plastic that you lock the pf in place with, the diameter of the ims basket is about 1.5mm bigger than that opening. So just fold the edges of the ims over more with some pliers (with diy soft jaws to minimise marking the basket) so that it fits. If you're confident with pliers then go for it I'd say. Only get a double basket though as without the pf being naked the triple wouldn't fit 

I can take some more pictures later if you need me to. It's bedtime now for the nippers so I'm distracted lol


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> So the black plastic that you lock the pf in place with, the diameter of the ims basket is about 1.5mm bigger than that opening. So just fold the edges of the ims over more with some pliers (with diy soft jaws to minimise marking the basket) so that it fits. If you're confident with pliers then go for it I'd say. Only get a double basket though as without the pf being naked the triple wouldn't fit
> 
> I can take some more pictures later if you need me to. It's bedtime now for the nippers so I'm distracted lol


Thanks mate, will most probably get the double and will no doubt consult you when I manage to f it up.


----------



## Lilybell2

DaveP said:


> Next time... ridgeless


Ridgeless would be great, if available. I only use ridgeless baskets.


----------



## lake_m

Lilybell2 said:


> Ridgeless would be great, if available. I only use ridgeless baskets.


I actually saw an IMS ridged double basket converted to ridgeless on the S1 forum by someone using an automotive panel beaters hammer and dolly on a vice. You wouldn't know it had be ridged it was that good. Might do it myself one day.


----------



## PPapa

Does the 53mm IMS basket open up any opportunities for tampers?


----------



## lake_m

PPapa said:


> Does the 53mm IMS basket open up any opportunities for tampers?


I got a Torr 53.6mm sharp edge. He'll make any size you want - go through CoffeeChap to get a price. I think I would go for a 53.5mm or 53.4mm next time it's a bit tight near the bottom of the basket (tapered) but still works brilliantly.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> I actually saw an IMS ridged double basket converted to ridgeless on the S1 forum by someone using an automotive panel beaters hammer and dolly on a vice. You wouldn't know it had be ridged it was that good. Might do it myself one day.


That's extreme!! Haha. The edge of my vice with a little hammer would be my go to. I'm going to have a bit more of a tweak with the pliers now that the rest of the fam have gone to bed


----------



## Rakesh

Got some stick on spotlights from Ikea at £1.70 a piece and I'm loving them.


----------



## joey24dirt

Rakesh said:


> Got some stick on spotlights from Ikea at £1.70 a piece and I'm loving them.


This is great. Love it. Would they fit under the DTP? As in where the pf fits so it lights up the drip tray area? That would look cool


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> This is great. Love it. Would they fit under the DTP? As in where the pf fits so it lights up the drip tray area? That would look cool


They are quite chunky things and are hidden under the cupboards, seen some really thin sleek ones there though that may get the job done as that would look very cool.


----------



## ATZ

@joey24dirt what's an IMS basket bring to the table?


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> @joey24dirt what's an IMS basket bring to the table?


Bugger all so far haha. It's too deep for my distribution tool so I'm having to distribute differently. Also I'm still getting used to these new beans I've switched to so that has put me back a step or two.

I did make a video of a shot using the basket but it just shows how poor my distribution was. It did however show the effect of that valve I fit. The drips stop almost straight away


----------



## Lilybell2

lake_m said:


> I actually saw an IMS ridged double basket converted to ridgeless on the S1 forum by someone using an automotive panel beaters hammer and dolly on a vice. You wouldn't know it had be ridged it was that good. Might do it myself one day.


Wow! I'm impressed that it could even be done.


----------



## joey24dirt

Not the best extraction but that's the IMS basket. Notice the drips stop at the end due to the valve opening when the button is pressed


----------



## PPapa

By the way, people were talking about making it ridgeless.

There are some already available, it seems.

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/MobileModels.aspx?ModelID=2024

Edit: And a screen, for a good measure. Any reason that wouldn't fit? I'll get my callipers oot.

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/MobileModels.aspx?ModelID=2022


----------



## lake_m

PPapa said:


> By the way, people were talking about making it ridgeless.
> 
> There are some already available, it seems.
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/MobileModels.aspx?ModelID=2024
> 
> Edit: And a screen, for a good measure. Any reason that wouldn't fit? I'll get my callipers oot.
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/MobileModels.aspx?ModelID=2022


Yes sorry, forgot to mention the 21g tripple basket is ridgeless. I've only used mine once and it was a bit of a disaster







. Went back to the double, because I didn't want to waste any more coffee mucking about.


----------



## joey24dirt

You would definitely need to grind the edge off that to make it fit. With the ridged at least you can just squeeze it in a little.

@lake_m what's up with the triple?


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> You would definitely need to grind the edge off that to make it fit. With the ridged at least you can just squeeze it in a little.
> 
> @lake_m what's up with the triple?


Probably nothing.

But I'd had it sitting in the drawer and one day I thought I'd give it a go. The bottomless portafilter came with a triple, but it's a 'noddy-no-name'. Switched it for the IMS triple.

Didn't adjust the grind which I should have. So it was a gusher with added spritzers for good measure. So I thought, sod it. I'm very happy with the double so I'll come back to it another time when I have more patience. I am still interested in getting it to work because in theory I will get a bigger cup of coffee instead of the tiddly flat white cup I'm currently using.


----------



## joey24dirt

@lake_m yeah a bigger cup would be great. I'm chuffed I can easily fit 20g in this basket now. Don't suppose it matters it's only rated to 18g?


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> @lake_m yeah a bigger cup would be great. I'm chuffed I can easily fit 20g in this basket now. Don't suppose it matters it's only rated to 18g?


 @joey24dirt Blimey you're doing well to get 20g in there! I can only get 18g absolute max (it's described as a 12g-18g basket). But the dispersion screen may be lower on the La Spaz.

Sounds like you don't need the triple


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> @joey24dirt Blimey you're doing well to get 20g in there! I can only get 18g absolute max (it's described as a 12g-18g basket). But the dispersion screen may be lower on the La Spaz.
> 
> Sounds like you don't need the triple


That's what I thought. The screen my be sat lower. To be honest I could get way more in. It tamps just below the ridge line inside the basket


----------



## PPapa

Got the screen shower off - needed a bit of a clean anyway







.

My measurements are:

Outer Diameter: 53.46mm

Inner Diameter: 51mm

Height: 2.02mm

Center: no idea. The area that does not contain any holes is around 10mm, but the bolt is 4mm.

Compared to:

External Diameter: 51.7 mm

Internal Diameter: 50.7 mm

Wall height: 3.8 mm

Central hole: 10 mm

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/gb/IMS-Spaziale-Integrated-Shower-Screen-484mm---SP200IM/m-2022.aspx

Sounds a bit too different? Especially the height.


----------



## joey24dirt

Does the shower screen touch the seal? I mean I suppose if the ID is as close at what you have measured then as long as it goes over the plastic outlet port it might work? Would open up a load of cool mods. I took the hit with the basket....who is going to order the screen hahaha


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Does the shower screen touch the seal? I mean I suppose if the ID is as close at what you have measured then as long as it goes over the plastic outlet port it might work? Would open up a load of cool mods. I took the hit with the basket....who is going to order the screen hahaha


Sorry, I didn't mean suggesting you!

I might pass for now since the tamper, dosing funnel, basket (which I am very tempted to), another jug, naked portafilter and few extras must have exceeded the price I paid for the machine already. That, and there's a Fujifilm X100F awaiting to be delivered in next few days...


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean suggesting you!
> 
> I might pass for now since the tamper, dosing funnel, basket (which I am very tempted to), another jug, naked portafilter and few extras must have exceeded the price I paid for the machine already. That, and there's a Fujifilm X100F awaiting to be delivered in next few days...


Haha I was just kidding. I might just go for it. As long as I can visualise it in my head I'll be happy to order it. Once the kids are in bed I'll take a look. Great suggestion though


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean suggesting you!
> 
> I might pass for now since the tamper, dosing funnel, basket (which I am very tempted to), another jug, naked portafilter and few extras must have exceeded the price I paid for the machine already. That, and there's a Fujifilm X100F awaiting to be delivered in next few days...


Haha I was just kidding. I might just go for it. As long as I can visualise it in my head I'll be happy to order it. Once the kids are in bed I'll take a look. Great suggestion though


----------



## ATZ

@joey24dirt just wanted to say the spice pot hack works a charm


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> @joey24dirt just wanted to say the spice pot hack works a charm


Ah brilliant! yes it was a pretty good stroke of luck that one. A friend of mine 3D printed a funnel for me that fits the basket and I also updated my spice pot and made one from stainless steel.


----------



## joey24dirt

@PPapa that screen might just work. Do you sandwich the two screens together?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> @PPapa that screen might just work. Do you sandwich the two screens together?


I believe so. I was looking at the water dispersion mechanism (whatever you call it) and there seems to be a single hole for the water to come out, but then there's a maze-like grooves that should distribute the water somewhat evenly. I don't know if the IMS screen would fit and be tight enough so those groves are doing any work.

Saying that, I noticed that there's more water coming out on the right hand side with no portafilter in. I take that's just because there's no resistance at all.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I believe so. I was looking at the water dispersion mechanism (whatever you call it) and there seems to be a single hole for the water to come out, but then there's a maze-like grooves that should distribute the water somewhat evenly. I don't know if the IMS screen would fit and be tight enough so those groves are doing any work.
> 
> Saying that, I noticed that there's more water coming out on the right hand side with no portafilter in. I take that's just because there's no resistance at all.


Yeah more than likely due to it not having coffee to push through. I think the biggest factor would be the depth of it. It's a shame amazon don't sell them. You could order and try it easy then just send it back if it doesn't work. Not sure what the returns are like from the espresso shop


----------



## PPapa

I looked on Google if anyone tried anything like that on a Breville/Sage and I couldn't find any information. There's a nice video of it:






The original Spaziale shower screen looks a bit shallower?

Coffee Hit does them as well, might shoot them an email tomorrow and see if they have any idea how suitable that's going to be.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I looked on Google if anyone tried anything like that on a Breville/Sage and I couldn't find any information. There's a nice video of it:


Oh that would be cool. Let me know what they say......

Also just ordering some LEDs because they look flipping awesome!


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> @PPapa that screen might just work. Do you sandwich the two screens together?


Yes the bigger one goes on first, then the smaller one over that. They are really good and make a nice shower effect. Need cleaning quite a bit because the grinds get stuck between the two.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> Yes the bigger one goes on first, then the smaller one over that. They are really good and make a nice shower effect. Need cleaning quite a bit because the grinds get stuck between the two.


Shall I just order one lol? I can always send it back. Did yours arrive in a sealed package or was it just a box like the baskets come in? Obviously to return something it's best the packaging isn't toast!


----------



## joey24dirt

Do you still have your old screen @lake_m ?


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> Do you still have your old screen @lake_m ?


Yes I still have it. The machine came with two. You can borrow it to check size if you want.

The IMS screens just came in the same type box as the baskets.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> Yes I still have it. The machine came with two. You can borrow it to check size if you want.
> 
> The IMS screens just came in the same type box as the baskets.


That would be awesome. I know your local ish but I doubt I'll be able to collect. I'll send some money over on PayPal for postage if that's ok with you


----------



## supertom44

After reading rakesh' post about his DTP dying I got a little concerned about my machine.

When I flush the group head without the portafilter in place, the stream of water is not in the centre, it's on the right hand side.

Is this normal?

I'll try and get a video tonight if i can.


----------



## khampal

supertom44 said:


> After reading rakesh' post about his DTP dying I got a little concerned about my machine.
> 
> When I flush the group head without the portafilter in place, the stream of water is not in the centre, it's on the right hand side.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> I'll try and get a video tonight if i can.


Yes, that's normal behaviour. The water can sometimes come through one side of the screen because the hole the water comes through on the head is not in the centre either. That said, you might wish to take off your shower screen and give it a clean. Additionally, give the group head a flush with the screen removed.


----------



## joey24dirt

Yeah totally normal. The hole that lets the water is to the right. If you pop the shower screen off you will see


----------



## mctrials23

There will probably be quite a bit of crap in the screen as well so its worth popping it off and cleaning it reasonably regularly.


----------



## Rakesh

supertom44 said:


> After reading rakesh' post about his DTP dying I got a little concerned about my machine.
> 
> When I flush the group head without the portafilter in place, the stream of water is not in the centre, it's on the right hand side.
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> I'll try and get a video tonight if i can.


Don't worry, the stream should be somewhat on the right hand side. My group was emitting water in a single stream out the right hand side, as if the shower screen was not even there as well as a harsh crackling of water and steam.


----------



## joey24dirt

I can't believe my eyes!! How long did they take to get ordered and arrive lol....










Unfortunately I'm off work until next week so can't start the mod until then.


----------



## Beth71

joey24dirt said:


> I can't believe my eyes!! How long did they take to get ordered and arrive lol....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I'm off work until next week so can't start the mod until then.


Is it a mirage?! Great news that they're here


----------



## donblacc

joey24dirt said:


> I can't believe my eyes!! How long did they take to get ordered and arrive lol....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately I'm off work until next week so can't start the mod until then.


 @joey24dirt Are these all claimed already? i would be forever grateful to get my hands on a naked for the DTP!


----------



## joey24dirt

donblacc said:


> @joey24dirt Are these all claimed already? i would be forever grateful to get my hands on a naked for the DTP!


9 out of 10 are  I'm waiting on a response from the last guy. I need to check his profile and see what the score is with him. I'll get back to you


----------



## donblacc

joey24dirt said:


> 9 out of 10 are  I'm waiting on a response from the last guy. I need to check his profile and see what the score is with him. I'll get back to you


Amazing, thanks @joey24dirt

it would be a dream if I could take it from ya, do let me know!


----------



## joey24dirt

@lake_m was kind enough to loan me his shower screen as a test to see if it's worth moving onto an IMS screen from a La Spaziale. I definitely think there's potential for it so work ok.

Knocked up a quick spro with it...










Definitely can't see any reason why it won't work. The screen doesn't quite reach the group gasket so doesn't have a perfect seal but water will always take the easiest route so for the most part you get flow through the screen 

Thanks mate, I'll send it back now haha.


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> @lake_m was kind enough to loan me his shower screen as a test to see if it's worth moving onto an IMS screen from a La Spaziale. I definitely think there's potential for it so work ok.
> 
> Knocked up a quick spro with it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely can't see any reason why it won't work. The screen doesn't quite reach the group gasket so doesn't have a perfect seal but water will always take the easiest route so for the most part you get flow through the screen
> 
> Thanks mate, I'll send it back now haha.


Spot on. Doesn't look

too different to the La Spaz.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> Spot on. Doesn't look
> 
> too different to the La Spaz.


Yeah you're right. I'll maybe need a different bolt but that's about it. I wish I could get them on amazon prime so I didn't have to wait haha


----------



## lake_m

I changed the bolt and ground the head right down to give more headroom above the puck.


----------



## joey24dirt

donblacc said:


> Amazing, thanks @joey24dirt
> 
> it would be a dream if I could take it from ya, do let me know!


Guess what........

.....you're in luck


----------



## joey24dirt

Here's a daft one for all you DTP fans .....






I might add another two LEDs at the front. I might not. Either way it's late and I need sleep


----------



## DaveP

If ever an led could be considered sexy.. then this is it, lol


----------



## donblacc

joey24dirt said:


> Guess what........
> 
> .....you're in luck


Just the news to brighten my Friday! thanks @joey24dirt Much appreciated! Just let me know what ya need from me in PM, and consider it done


----------



## M3Tz

Hey guys,

I noticed something odd with my DTP yesterday, I've noticed that if I run the water through the screen without the porter filter attached I get a steady stream of water flow on the right hand side and fast drips on the left hand side. I have rubbed the screen but still the same.

Is this normal?


----------



## joey24dirt

M3Tz said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I noticed something odd with my DTP yesterday, I've noticed that if I run the water through the screen without the porter filter attached I get a steady stream of water flow on the right hand side and fast drips on the left hand side. I have rubbed the screen but still the same.
> 
> Is this normal?


It is yes. If you remove your shower screen you will see the water outlet on the right hand side of the machine


----------



## joey24dirt

Got them all cut today (got caught on the second to last haha) so I just need to tidy them up and get them packaged/shipped off


----------



## mctrials23

Sweet!!! Great work!


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


>


Awesome, thanks again for doing this Joe.


----------



## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


>


Awesome news, looking forward to using them.


----------



## joey24dirt

@mctrials23 this shows how I do my milk sort of lol. Not really close enough.






Hopefully that helps


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> @mctrials23 this shows how I do my milk sort of lol. Not really close enough.


Cheers Joey, you make it look so simple! You don't seem to steam the milk for that long either. I'll keep plugging away and perhaps in a few years I will get a beautifully textured cup of coffee.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Cheers Joey, you make it look so simple! You don't seem to steam the milk for that long either. I'll keep plugging away and perhaps in a few years I will get a beautifully textured cup of coffee.


It won't take you that long. Ok so step by step....

1. Purge steam wand then switch off

2. Insert wand below surface and switch on

3. Get milk rotating after a few seconds and bring wand to surface.

4. Stretch milk until jug feels slightly warm keeping the milk rotating (you can almost here the noise change also)

5. Sink wand back into milk up to the line where the tip screws onto the wand

6. Keep milk rotating while you heat and feel the temp of the jug getting hotter. When it's too hot to touch turn steam off leaving tip sunken until steam has stopped.

7. Set jug to one side while purging steam wand again and cleaning tip.

8. Swirl the milk to incorporate it all together. Knock out all large bubbles

9. Then pour!

Hope this helps


----------



## mctrials23

Cheers Joey, I'll try it again in a minute. I made one this morning following your positioning in the video and it did seem better. I think I just didn't heat the milk enough after texturing it. I think I had the wand a bit too vertical in the past but now that I have the wand sitting in the funnel I can get a bit of a shallower angle on the milk and it seems to work a bit better.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Cheers Joey, I'll try it again in a minute. I made one this morning following your positioning in the video and it did seem better. I think I just didn't heat the milk enough after texturing it. I think I had the wand a bit too vertical in the past but now that I have the wand sitting in the funnel I can get a bit of a shallower angle on the milk and it seems to work a bit better.


That's great. You'll have it cracked in no time at all


----------



## joey24dirt

@Kyle t @Beth71 @Filthynines @jimbocz @stereoket @ATZ @PPapa @Mctrials @Matius84

Could you all send me a PM with your delivery addresses please


----------



## joey24dirt

Apart from two that have been arranged for a later date, the rest of these have been shipped. Should be with you in a couple of days I hope.

Cheers guys


----------



## Beth71

joey24dirt said:


> Apart from two that have been arranged for a later date, the rest of these have been shipped. Should be with you in a couple of days I hope.
> 
> Cheers guys


Hey - PM sent


----------



## mctrials23

Cheers Joey, really appreciate you doing these so quickly! I will be blaming you when the mrs disowns me for ruining our carpet.


----------



## supertom44

Just saw joey's thread about selling a spare custom tamper for the sage and got me thinking, is it worth upgrading to a motta (or other recommendations) tamper, the supplied one with the sage doesn't seem the best fit.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Just saw joey's thread about selling a spare custom tamper for the sage and got me thinking, is it worth upgrading to a motta (or other recommendations) tamper, the supplied one with the sage doesn't seem the best fit.


Yeah the motta would be an excellent upgrade. Or if you like the look of the one I've just sold just say the word


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Cheers Joey, really appreciate you doing these so quickly! I will be blaming you when the mrs disowns me for ruining our carpet.


Haha nothing to do with me  I'm sure you'll be fine


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah the motta would be an excellent upgrade. Or if you like the look of the one I've just sold just say the word


If you're still making them and it's not too much trouble I'd definitely be up for buying one from you, they look nice.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> If you're still making them and it's not too much trouble I'd definitely be up for buying one from you, they look nice.


Yeah that's fine. If you're happy enough with the price I'll get one ordered up and then do my thaaanng!


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah that's fine. If you're happy enough with the price I'll get one ordered up and then do my thaaanng!


Sounds good, I'll PM you for details.


----------



## donblacc

supertom44 said:


> If you're still making them and it's not too much trouble I'd definitely be up for buying one from you, they look nice.


 @supertom44 if you'd like one sooner (the PFs tend to take a while to arrive) you could take the one Joe was kind enough to sort for me! I'm leaving the country in november, and a change of plans means i may be away much longer than expected. Therefore i might reluctantly move my DTP on before i leave.

..that's if you don't mind the extra few quid for postage to you


----------



## supertom44

donblacc said:


> @supertom44 if you'd like one sooner (the PFs tend to take a while to arrive) you could take the one Joe was kind enough to sort for me! I'm leaving the country in november, and a change of plans means i may be away much longer than expected. Therefore i might reluctantly move my DTP on before i leave.
> 
> ..that's if you don't mind the extra few quid for postage to you


Sorry are you talking about a portafilter or tamper?


----------



## donblacc

supertom44 said:


> Sorry are you talking about a portafilter or tamper?


My bad, I just realised you're after the distributor. yes I'm talking about a naked portafilter ..doh!


----------



## supertom44

donblacc said:


> My bad, I just realised you're after the distributor. yes I'm talking about a naked portafilter ..doh!
> 
> Well, the offer's out there. Otherwise i'll just sell it along with the DTP next month


I was, but now you mention it, if you're not going to get much use out of yours and to ur happy to let it go, I'd definitely be interested. Let me know what price you're thinking and I'll get back to you.


----------



## donblacc

supertom44 said:


> I was, but now you mention it, if you're not going to get much use out of yours and to ur happy to let it go, I'd definitely be interested. Let me know what price you're thinking and I'll get back to you.


Sure! Once it arrives i'll get a quote for postage and let you know, can't imagine it will be more than £50 all up


----------



## joey24dirt

donblacc said:


> Sure! Once it arrives i'll get a quote for postage and let you know, can't imagine it will be more than £50 all up


Any idea what you would want for your machine? Was it the black one?


----------



## donblacc

joey24dirt said:


> Any idea what you would want for your machine? Was it the black one?


Not black, stainless steel! She's literally just a few weeks old so I'll be looking for about 280 (with a nice Motta tamper)


----------



## joey24dirt

donblacc said:


> Not black, stainless steel! She's literally just a few weeks old so I'll be looking for about 280 (with a nice Motta tamper)


I could have sworn you had a black on haha. Well I'll mention it at work as a few lads may be interested


----------



## donblacc

joey24dirt said:


> I could have sworn you had a black on haha. Well I'll mention it at work as a few lads may be interested


I had a black La Pav not too long ago, perhaps you're getting mixed up. Great, cheers Joe appreciate ya putting the word out!


----------



## ronsil

Please keep all sales posts in the 'For Sale' section & follow the Forum rules.

Have PMd you with the request.


----------



## joey24dirt

ronsil said:


> Please keep all sales posts in the 'For Sale' section & follow the Forum rules.
> 
> Have PMd you with the request.


Apologies. This wasn't an offer just general discussion.


----------



## PPapa

First shot with the naked portafilter/push style tamper. Quite pleased with results. Thanks Joe!


----------



## mctrials23

Bottomless PF just arrived Joey and you've done a great job on it so thank you very much.

Pulled my first shot on it earlier and it wasn't a pretty sight. Quite a lot of the basket wasn't coming through so it looks like I need to try and figure out whats going wrong. On the plus side, the beans I'm using are really tasty so even a bad shot is drinkable.

My milk texturing is also getting much better so thank you again Joey.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Bottomless PF just arrived Joey and you've done a great job on it so thank you very much.
> 
> Pulled my first shot on it earlier and it wasn't a pretty sight. Quite a lot of the basket wasn't coming through so it looks like I need to try and figure out whats going wrong. On the plus side, the beans I'm using are really tasty so even a bad shot is drinkable.
> 
> My milk texturing is also getting much better so thank you again Joey.


I'm so pleased you guys are happy with them. Makes all that effort worthwhile 

You'll have to make a video


----------



## mctrials23

When its not a horror show I will stick up a video for some critique and to get some advice on how to perfect my shots. At least its not pissing out all over the place like I have seen in a few videos.


----------



## joey24dirt

Just to throw another spanner in the works......










Motta tamper handles. Just waiting for my mate to drop them off then I'll give them a go. Plan is to try make some the same shape as the sage and see if we can get that to work


----------



## Kyle T

Great little surprise to come home to tonight. Thanks again @joey24dirt


----------



## joey24dirt

Custom motta tamper for the DTP. Made from reclaimed skateboards. This was a first attempt but not bad. At least the wood didn't explode. Can't fully take credit as my mate made this handle but it was technically made on my lathe haha.


----------



## Rakesh

Kyle T said:


> Great little surprise to come home to tonight. Thanks again @joey24dirt
> 
> View attachment 29270


That worktop looks familiar...

Custom gaggia pf courtesy of joey.


----------



## Lilybell2

That's an absolutely beautiful tamper handle, Joey.


----------



## jimbocz

joey24dirt said:


> Just to throw another spanner in the works......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Motta tamper handles. Just waiting for my mate to drop them off then I'll give them a go. Plan is to try make some the same shape as the sage and see if we can get that to work


Please take my money! If you make a decent tamper with a nice looking handle like that that fits the hole in my DTP, I am first in line please.

BTW, the naked PF looks great. Thanks!


----------



## joey24dirt

jimbocz said:


> Please take my money! If you make a decent tamper with a nice looking handle like that that fits the hole in my DTP, I am first in line please.
> 
> BTW, the naked PF looks great. Thanks!


I'm on with the prototype as we speak lol. I'll let you know once I'm happy with the outcome. Might even start a new thread


----------



## ATZ

@joey24dirt Naked PF has arrived! Excited to give it a whirl later!


----------



## joey24dirt

Super pleased with myself!! 53.4mm custom made tamper for the Sage DTP & BE. Can't wait to get home and give it a try.

I'll be testing the magnetic holder later with another handle I have.

That's enough guvvy work for the day haha


----------



## PPapa

How did you get on with the IMS basket and shower screen?

I'm tempted to order them both. The problem is that if I need to mod the screen by any way, I wouldn't be able to.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> How did you get on with the IMS basket and shower screen?
> 
> I'm tempted to order them both. The problem is that if I need to mod the screen by any way, I wouldn't be able to.


The screen will go straight on and the basket will need altering slightly. I've had a few blank spots recently when pulling a shot so I need to try some different beans to see if that cures the issue. I'm hoping that's all it is lol


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> The screen will go straight on and the basket will need altering slightly. I've had a few blank spots recently when pulling a shot so I need to try some different beans to see if that cures the issue. I'm hoping that's all it is lol


 @joey24dirt have you noticed any improvement with these?


----------



## ATZ

Got home an excitedly pulled some shots on the naked PF @joey24dirt has kindly knocked up for us.

I think for a first go it was a success!

Bit splattery but produced a good shot and definitely has me preparing the basket and tamping better already.


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> @joey24dirt have you noticed any improvement with these?


As in a better shot? I can't really tell yet. It does disperse the water more evenly I think from the shower screen and the basket does a good job. Like I've mentioned I'm having a few issues with dead spots when extracting so I'm trying to figure out what is causing this. Any ideas lol?!


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> As in a better shot? I can't really tell yet. It does disperse the water more evenly I think from the shower screen and the basket does a good job. Like I've mentioned I'm having a few issues with dead spots when extracting so I'm trying to figure out what is causing this. Any ideas lol?!


It could be less forgiving than the OEM basket?

I have ordered the gasket/screen/basket, will let you all know how I get on







.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> It could be less forgiving than the OEM basket?
> 
> I have ordered the gasket/screen/basket, will let you all know how I get on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Haha no messing about. Which gasket did you order? That's the only bit I didn't order.


----------



## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> Super pleased with myself!! 53.4mm custom made tamper for the Sage DTP & BE. Can't wait to get home and give it a try.
> 
> I'll be testing the magnetic holder later with another handle I have.
> 
> That's enough guvvy work for the day haha


you should defo be selling these and making yaself a few bob. As much as it pains my wallet i would buy one.....because......yano......coffee stuff.


----------



## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> you should defo be selling these and making yaself a few bob. As much as it pains my wallet i would buy one.....because......yano......coffee stuff.


What do you think would be best? Normal tamper or one that will replace the stock DTP tamper?

I definitely want to give them a go. Very labour intensive though with the skateboard prep but they just look too good not to.

As far as I can tell there's a few guys who import them from America and Germany but not much in the U.K.

Don't know if you guys have noticed anyone over here making them?


----------



## Kyle T

A normal tamper would be fine, i think most DTP users ditch the stock tamper pretty quickly and forget the magnet holder is even there. Never seen them anywhere else before.


----------



## joey24dirt

Kyle T said:


> A normal tamper would be fine, i think most DTP users ditch the stock tamper pretty quickly and forget the magnet holder is even there. Never seen them anywhere else before.


Ok cool so maybe I'll knock up a few more "motta" style tampers that are a similar shape but that will fit the baskets better. I'll have to do one for the magnetic holder anyway though just to say I have haha.


----------



## lake_m

joey24dirt said:


> Ok cool so maybe I'll knock up a few more "motta" style tampers that are a similar shape but that will fit the baskets better. I'll have to do one for the magnetic holder anyway though just to say I have haha.


Hey Joe, chalk me down for one of those cool 53.4mm striped dudes if you decide to go into production. They're as cool as hell!!


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> Hey Joe, chalk me down for one of those cool 53.4mm striped dudes if you decide to go into production. They're as cool as hell!!


Definitely. I've just made a thread in valuations as I have no idea what they would go for lol.


----------



## mctrials23

Is there a reason why baskets are tapered at the sides? If the walls of the basket were vertical you could make a tamper the exact width to never have to worry about an off angle tamp as the tamper simply would not go into the basket. As it is, you always need a little play to account for the taper.


----------



## lake_m

mctrials23 said:


> Is there a reason why baskets are tapered at the sides? If the walls of the basket were vertical you could make a tamper the exact width to never have to worry about an off angle tamp as the tamper simply would not go into the basket. As it is, you always need a little play to account for the taper.


This is true, but I've found it to be a non-issue if you use Joeys distribution tool first. With such a level bed to tamp onto, it's near impossible to cock it up.


----------



## joey24dirt

lake_m said:


> This is true, but I've found it to be a non-issue if you use Joeys distribution tool first. With such a level bed to tamp onto, it's near impossible to cock it up.


Superb endorsement right there haha. Thanks mate it's true though... a quick spin and you're set to go.


----------



## Kyle T

The distribution tool is superb. I never expected it to work as well as it does and its extremely easy too. Great addition to the coffee setup.


----------



## joey24dirt

@supertom44


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> @supertom44


Awesome, they look great! Good job.


----------



## Gary5709

Kyle T said:


> you should defo be selling these and making yaself a few bob. As much as it pains my wallet i would buy one.....because......yano......coffee stuff.


As a skateboarder of over 25 years who is still going strong and a DTP owner who loves his Motta tamper this is a work of art! May I be first in line if you decide to make more! Some guys I know make stuff from old boards but not seen anyone do a tamper yet so I'd be keen to own one of those beauties! Also interested in a naked portafilter if you'll be doing anymore as haven't been on here for a while so not had a chance to grab one.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gary5709 said:


> As a skateboarder of over 25 years who is still going strong and a DTP owner who loves his Motta tamper this is a work of art! May I be first in line if you decide to make more! Some guys I know make stuff from old boards but not seen anyone do a tamper yet so I'd be keen to own one of those beauties! Also interested in a naked portafilter if you'll be doing anymore as haven't been on here for a while so not had a chance to grab one.


Best thing to do with the naked pf is order your own and send it over to me for the mod. It was too stressful last time I sorted all the others out haha.

With regards to the tamper. Would you be looking for one to replace the stock DTP tamper (it would fit in the original tamper dock) or a complete new tamper. Both options would be machined to be a snug fit at 53.5mm.


----------



## Gary5709

That would be fine. How much would you want to do that? Just checked on Sage website and they don't seem to be on there, will have to email them.

Tamper wise I love my 53mm Motta that I use at the moment so I'd want it to have it the same as that. Not fussed about having a magnetic one as ditched mine ages ago. Having a 53.5mm would be good though as that would be a little better fit than the Motta but 53mm would still be fine as it still tamps perfectly ok.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gary5709 said:


> That would be fine. How much would you want to do that? Just checked on Sage website and they don't seem to be on there, will have to email them.
> 
> Tamper wise I love my 53mm Motta that I use at the moment so I'd want it to have it the same as that. Not fussed about having a magnetic one as ditched mine ages ago. Having a 53.5mm would be good though as that would be a little better fit than the Motta but 53mm would still be fine as it still tamps perfectly ok.


With sage you have to just ring them up and organise over the phone. They are around £38 for a new pf


----------



## PPapa

So... got some stuff







.










The shower screen went fine and I didn't try the gasket.

However, I didn't get on well with the basket. Firstly, I made a bit of a mess trying to bend the lip:



















I made it fit into the group head with a bit of noise, but... I don't think it sits level in the portafilter. Also, I dosed 21g of this month's LSOL in and the puck was so low that the push style tamper didn't reach much.

I am a bit disappointed with my inability to do such a simple thing, but oh well.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> So... got some stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shower screen went fine and I didn't try the gasket.
> 
> However, I didn't get on well with the basket. Firstly, I made a bit of a mess trying to bend the lip:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I made it fit into the group head with a bit of noise, but... I don't think it sits level in the portafilter. Also, I dosed 21g of this month's LSOL in and the puck was so low that the push style tamper didn't reach much.
> 
> I am a bit disappointed with my inability to do such a simple thing, but oh well.


It will wear in over time. Mine is just like when I had the sage baskets in now. With ref to the tamper, let me try a mod on mine first then if it works I'll sort yours out for you if you want it doing foc 

Oh and how come you didn't try the gasket? I was interested in seeing if it was worth getting also


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> It will wear in over time. Mine is just like when I had the sage baskets in now. With ref to the tamper, let me try a mod on mine first then if it works I'll sort yours out for you if you want it doing foc
> 
> Oh and how come you didn't try the gasket? I was interested in seeing if it was worth getting also


Well, there are few dents inside as well, so I am not sure I'll be using it to be honest. Made a mess out of it, apparently I'm not good with pliers!

While I've been happy with the stock basket, I wanted something a bit larger.

In regards to gasket... I'll probably try it out when I clean the shower screen next time. I can't remember what size it is, but I'll see if it fits. I bought it since it was few quid and realised I would need to replace the gasket at some point.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Well, there are few dents inside as well, so I am not sure I'll be using it to be honest. Made a mess out of it, apparently I'm not good with pliers!
> 
> While I've been happy with the stock basket, I wanted something a bit larger.
> 
> In regards to gasket... I'll probably try it out when I clean the shower screen next time. I can't remember what size it is, but I'll see if it fits. I bought it since it was few quid and realised I would need to replace the gasket at some point.


Ah did you get the triple basket?


----------



## PPapa

Yeah I went for the triple. It seems like it fits the standard portafilter as well.


----------



## joey24dirt

Had the urge to destroy again....





































So once you chop off the composite plastic and free off the stub you can add a 14x2 thread to said stub and install a chopped off hammer shaft!!

Obviously I'll not be leaving it like this. That would be wrong. I'm waiting for my new reclaimed skateboard handle to be made then I'll get that whacked on.

This isn't for the faint hearted. I nearly snapped the stub off when adding the thread so once that's gone it's probably game over haha.


----------



## Aharries

Hi everybody. Just upgraded from the ROK to the DTP and really enjoying the results so far.

Loving the mods people are getting up to and finding the tips very helpful.

Have been surprised at not having to adjust my grind size much in the switch but am definitely getting more consistent shots. Attached a pic of my setup for your enjoyment (It's quite sage heavy...)


----------



## joey24dirt

Aharries said:


> Hi everybody. Just upgraded from the ROK to the DTP and really enjoying the results so far.
> 
> Loving the mods people are getting up to and finding the tips very helpful.
> 
> Have been surprised at not having to adjust my grind size much in the switch but am definitely getting more consistent shots. Attached a pic of my setup for your enjoyment (It's quite sage heavy...)


I always think I should've got a black one, but at the time I could only get my hands on the silver. Looks great, and it's nice to have another DTP owner on board


----------



## Rakesh

joey24dirt said:


> I always think I should've got a black one, but at the time I could only get my hands on the silver. Looks great, and it's nice to have another DTP owner on board


I agree, the black ones do really look the part. I find all the sage gear to be so aesthetically pleasing, one of the things I do miss about my sage.


----------



## Gary5709

joey24dirt said:


> With sage you have to just ring them up and organise over the phone. They are around £38 for a new pf


They emailed and said for me to do that so its cool. How much do you charge for modifying? Any idea when you might be able to do any of the skateboard tampers? Really keen to get one in the 53.4mm size.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gary5709 said:


> They emailed and said for me to do that so its cool. How much do you charge for modifying? Any idea when you might be able to do any of the skateboard tampers? Really keen to get one in the 53.4mm size.


PM sent


----------



## joey24dirt

Skateboard handle MK1. Horrible to drill and tap as it just wants to split the wood again. It's just a shame there isn't more meat on the pf head to add more than three threads


----------



## Kyle T

joey24dirt said:


> Skateboard handle MK1. Horrible to drill and tap as it just wants to split the wood again. It's just a shame there isn't more meat on the pf head to add more than three threads


Very nice indeed!


----------



## kennyboy993

Really nice


----------



## MildredM

Wow! They look absolutely stunning


----------



## donblacc

Fellow Sageys, i have a question for you all! I'm packing up a DTP to send to another member here, and just wondered whether it would be ok to leave the filter in or dispose of it?

Just unsure if they should dry out and then be reused, bearing in mind it should reach them in 24 hours.

any advice appreciated, thanks!


----------



## joey24dirt

donblacc said:


> Fellow Sageys, i have a question for you all! I'm packing up a DTP to send to another member here, and just wondered whether it would be ok to leave the filter in or dispose of it?
> 
> Just unsure if they should dry out and then be reused, bearing in mind it should reach them in 24 hours.
> 
> any advice appreciated, thanks!


If it dries out the buyer could just follow the process of soaking it again as per the manual. It's only carbon I think so should be ok.

That's my take on it anyway


----------



## Mr Kirk

Haha that would be my dtp on the way.

I'd planned on checking when it arrived and stocking up on filters/cleaning/descaling products.


----------



## joey24dirt

Mr Kirk said:


> Haha that would be my dtp on the way.
> 
> I'd planned on checking when it arrived and stocking up on filters/cleaning/descaling products.


Ha yes! For the price of the filters you may as well buy new. I think the last lot I bought came from amazon


----------



## mctrials23

Ive managed to strip the screw that holds the show head in somehow and I was looking at replacing it. Looking on the sage site you can get a replacement screen for £3 but does anyone know if it comes with the screw? The picture suggests it does but I just want to make sure.

My next question is whether there is a better shower screen that I can fit to the DTP?


----------



## PPapa

mctrials23 said:


> Ive managed to strip the screw that holds the show head in somehow and I was looking at replacing it. Looking on the sage site you can get a replacement screen for £3 but does anyone know if it comes with the screw? The picture suggests it does but I just want to make sure.
> 
> My next question is whether there is a better shower screen that I can fit to the DTP?


The IMS La Spaz shower screen fits as well (no screw included). A bit pricier, though.


----------



## joey24dirt

Yeah the la spaz goes on easy. As for the screw I dare say a la spaz would fit also. Actually thinking about it I have a spare to fit the sage screen if you want it? Have you managed to get the old one out ok?

How do you like the la spaz gear then @PPapa ?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah the la spaz goes on easy. As for the screw I dare say a la spaz would fit also. Actually thinking about it I have a spare to fit the sage screen if you want it? Have you managed to get the old one out ok?
> 
> How do you like the la spaz gear then @PPapa ?


I mangled up the basket enough that I don't dare to use it anymore. It's a bit pricey piece to practice my plier skills lol.

Shower wise, I've seen a dip on the right hand side of the puck if I get a sink shot (either massive channeling or too fast pour). It looks as if the puck was damaged/broken. If the shot is good, however, the puck looks alright as well.

I can't say it improved the shot by any means, apart from the fact that it looks a bit more even when looking at the shower screen without the portafilter in.


----------



## Mr Kirk

@donblacc I've received the dtp. It was perfectly packaged and appears brand new!

Ran a shot through it just because I had to. Forgot I used the single basket though and pulled a double.

Looked ok. Tasted not so.

I've got to pick up the other parts tomorrow for the post office.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I mangled up the basket enough that I don't dare to use it anymore. It's a bit pricey piece to practice my plier skills lol.
> 
> Shower wise, I've seen a dip on the right hand side of the puck if I get a sink shot (either massive channeling or too fast pour). It looks as if the puck was damaged/broken. If the shot is good, however, the puck looks alright as well.
> 
> I can't say it improved the shot by any means, apart from the fact that it looks a bit more even when looking at the shower screen without the portafilter in.


Send your basket over if you like I'll try and save it and return it


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah the la spaz goes on easy. As for the screw I dare say a la spaz would fit also. Actually thinking about it I have a spare to fit the sage screen if you want it? Have you managed to get the old one out ok?
> 
> How do you like the la spaz gear then @PPapa ?


Cheers Joey, The screw comes in and out alright, I assume the screw is a softer metal but its getting more damaged every time I remove the screen to clean it so I thought it might be an idea to replace it. What screen is it exactly? The 48.4mm?

Edit: Just found your review on a site for it Joey!



PPapa said:


> The IMS La Spaz shower screen fits as well (no screw included). A bit pricier, though.


Do you guys reckon it is worth the upgrade or doesn't it really make any difference.


----------



## PPapa

See my post above. I can't claim it does as I couldn't notice the difference in the cup. Doing tests side by side is fairly tough.


----------



## joey24dirt

I agree it's hard to tell. It's like the placebo effect... it looks cool so it must make a nicer coffee


----------



## Mr Kirk

Are there any larger baskets available for the dtp?


----------



## PPapa

Mr Kirk said:


> Are there any larger baskets available for the dtp?


IMS do 21g baskets for La Spaziale, but it's not straightforward to make it fit in the portafilter.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> IMS do 21g baskets for La Spaziale, but it's not straightforward to make it fit in the portafilter.


On top of this I think it might have to be a naked pf also due to the depth. I had a play about with the one you sent up. Pretty much sorted


----------



## Mr Kirk

joey24dirt said:


> On top of this I think it might have to be a naked pf also due to the depth. I had a play about with the one you sent up. Pretty much sorted


I've just ordered a spare pf from sage. I'm going to investigate drilling it out myself. I've got a vice and a drill....


----------



## joey24dirt

Mr Kirk said:


> I've just ordered a spare pf from sage. I'm going to investigate drilling it out myself. I've got a vice and a drill....


52mm hole cutter will do the job. I made a jig to use with a pedestal drill so it kept me lined up.


----------



## Somafunk

Hello all, new forum user but long time coffee geek.

I've recently bought a sage grinder to replace a Kitchenaid artisan burr grinder as the motor burnt out and replacement motors are not available from kitchenaid, also have a kitchenaid artisan espresso machine but there is a problem with the steam boiler and temp regulation so rather than spend £150 on a possible repair (for now anyway) i decided to buy a sage DTP, I managed to find a manufacturer refurbished model for £200 with full guarantee and all original parts - doesn't look like it has been used at all as everything was new. (old + new machines below).

On using the sage DTP i have found that the machine will not extract unless i use a grind setting of 24 on the sage grinder which gives a 14second grind into a double basket, that gives me an extraction of 28seconds into my double espresso cup with a light tamp and it does taste quite good, it also makes a very creamy/caramel cappuccino which i'm quite chuffed with - I'm using fresh beans from Dark Woods coffee : under milk wood. If i attempt to use a finer grind then the machine just makes a noise and gives zero extraction, surely the dtp should be able to cope with a finer grind setting than 24? - is my refurbished dtp machine faulty?

Unfortunately my scales ended up in the sink so until i order a new set i cannot weigh the grind.


----------



## joey24dirt

Somafunk said:


> Hello all, new forum user but long time coffee geek.
> 
> I've recently bought a sage grinder to replace a Kitchenaid artisan burr grinder as the motor burnt out and replacement motors are not available from kitchenaid, also have a kitchenaid artisan espresso machine but there is a problem with the steam boiler and temp regulation so rather than spend £150 on a possible repair (for now anyway) i decided to buy a sage DTP, I managed to find a manufacturer refurbished model for £200 with full guarantee and all original parts - doesn't look like it has been used at all as everything was new. (old + new machines below).
> 
> On using the sage DTP i have found that the machine will not extract unless i use a grind setting of 24 on the sage grinder which gives a 14second grind into a double basket, that gives me an extraction of 28seconds into my double espresso cup with a light tamp and it does taste quite good, it also makes a very creamy/caramel cappuccino which i'm quite chuffed with - I'm using fresh beans from Dark Woods coffee : under milk wood. If i attempt to use a finer grind then the machine just makes a noise and gives zero extraction, surely the dip should be able to cope with a finer grind setting than 24? - is my refurbished dtp machine faulty?
> 
> Unfortunately my scales ended up in the sink so until i order a new set i cannot weigh the grind.
> 
> View attachment 29734


Ideally you do need some scales so we can give accurate advice. It just sounds like it's choking up though.


----------



## Somafunk

Cheers joey, i'll have to get a new set of scales but my old kitchenaid machine despite being a bit temperamental managed to extract from a grind setting of 10 so i was naturally concerned about the sage dtp choking up on anything under a grind of 24. I'll try and borrow a set of scales later and try it out again.


----------



## JimL

The DTP comes with 2 portafilter baskets; one is pressurised, the other not. Are you sure you're using the correct one?


----------



## Somafunk

Yeah, double basket non pressurised. I've been fiddling with a set of borrowed scales so after many attempts i'm now loading 16g in the portafilter with a 30 second extraction time for a 55g shot, on the sage grinder this translates to using a 12 second grind and a grind setting of 25. The espresso tastes quite bitter so it needs more fiddling but that will have to wait till tomorrow as i now feel kinda sick n' queasy with the 10 odd tasting shots


----------



## joey24dirt

Somafunk said:


> Yeah, double basket non pressurised. I've been fiddling with a set of borrowed scales so after many attempts i'm now loading 16g in the portafilter with a 30 second extraction time for a 55g shot, on the sage grinder this translates to using a 12 second grind and a grind setting of 25. The espresso tastes quite bitter so it needs more fiddling but that will have to wait till tomorrow as i now feel kinda sick n' queasy with the 10 odd tasting shots


A standard ratio people will aim for is a 1:2 so 16g in would equate to 32g out, within the 25-30 seconds range. See if you can get nearer to that and see how things taste


----------



## Somafunk

Will do







, I'm now heading out on the bike to burn off some of this caffeine fuelled mania..........


----------



## joey24dirt

Somafunk said:


> Will do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I'm now heading out on the bike to burn off some of this caffeine fuelled mania..........


Ooh what bike? Pedal bike?


----------



## Somafunk

This, a Scott E-Genius e-bike (which is either the work of the devil or brilliant fun depending on your viewpoint), Been racing mtb's since the very early 90's but I can't ride a normal bike anymore due to MS totally destroying my leg power so i'm firmly in the brilliant fun viewpoint.


----------



## joey24dirt

Somafunk said:


> This, a Scott E-Genius e-bike (which is either the work of the devil or brilliant fun depending on your viewpoint), Been racing mtb's since the very early 90's but I can't ride a normal bike anymore due to MS totally destroying my leg power so i'm firmly in the brilliant fun viewpoint.
> 
> View attachment 29738


Wow that looks loads of fun. I've got a Giant anthem x3 29er and road bike, used to do a lot of DH until the boys came along. Once they are bigger I'll get out more with them.


----------



## joey24dirt

It's been a little while since I've posted on here. Just want to pick people's brains.

Do you guys run a flush of water before pulling a shot?

I have been trying different methods recently and have just tried flushing the shower screen up to the pressure ramp, insert pf with prepped coffee and pull the shot from there. Gave a lovely looking pour and the shot tasted better I think.

I'll try again for the next few days and see what the results are like.

Just wondering if anyone else does something similar


----------



## urbanbumpkin

joey24dirt said:


> It's been a little while since I've posted on here. Just want to pick people's brains.
> 
> Do you guys run a flush of water before pulling a shot?
> 
> I have been trying different methods recently and have just tried flushing the shower screen up to the pressure ramp, insert pf with prepped coffee and pull the shot from there. Gave a lovely looking pour and the shot tasted better I think.
> 
> I'll try again for the next few days and see what the results are like.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone else does something similar


I do on the Sage DB.


----------



## joey24dirt

urbanbumpkin said:


> I do on the Sage DB.


Does the DB have a heated grouphead?

As much as I love the DTP, the DB is never far from my thoughts  I need to tell myself daily that I don't need one.......yet


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Does the DB have a heated grouphead?
> 
> As much as I love the DTP, the DB is never far from my thoughts  I need to tell myself daily that I don't need one.......yet


It does. It's actually a heat element rather than circulating water from the boiler, like E61 and the likes.

I started backflushing before pulling a first shot and then flush again. A bit of a faff, but heats up nicely.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> It does. It's actually a heat element rather than circulating water from the boiler, like E61 and the likes.
> 
> I started backflushing before pulling a first shot and then flush again. A bit of a faff, but heats up nicely.


I always initially run hot water into my cup to heat that also.

So do you just drop the cleaning disk in to trap the hot water in the pf?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> I always initially run hot water into my cup to heat that also.
> 
> So do you just drop the cleaning disk in to trap the hot water in the pf?


Yeah, it holds up the water for a bit longer.

A bit of a mess with a naked portafilter, though.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Yeah, it holds up the water for a bit longer.
> 
> A bit of a mess with a naked portafilter, though.


Haha yes I bet. Oh also your package is on it's way


----------



## mctrials23

How many of you guys drink espresso from your DTPs? I am happy with my milk based drinks but I still can't quite get espresso to my liking. I might be expecting too much from the machine but I have been out at restaurants and had fantastic espresso so its not that I don't like it or don't appreciate it.


----------



## Mr Kirk

Yes, I do.

I'm still trying to train myself to notice the difference between sour and bitter and then how to correct it.

However the shots I've had so far are ok. Maybe a bit bitter. But seem sweeter once the shot has cooled slightly.

Also I want to do a few shots in a row, extracting various weights and then taste testing to see what's what.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> How many of you guys drink espresso from your DTPs? I am happy with my milk based drinks but I still can't quite get espresso to my liking. I might be expecting too much from the machine but I have been out at restaurants and had fantastic espresso so its not that I don't like it or don't appreciate it.


Yes I really enjoy them from the DTP also. Once you're on it, it does really well.


----------



## filthynines

I recommend getting Colombian Suarez (Rave is selling it at the moment) as a good practice bean. After 10 days of resting the DTP puts out some very good shots consistently.


----------



## PPapa

mctrials23 said:


> How many of you guys drink espresso from your DTPs? I am happy with my milk based drinks but I still can't quite get espresso to my liking. I might be expecting too much from the machine but I have been out at restaurants and had fantastic espresso so its not that I don't like it or don't appreciate it.


I do drink espresso, pretty much daily.

What's your espresso recipe? Weight in, weight out, shot time?


----------



## Beth71

mctrials23 said:


> How many of you guys drink espresso from your DTPs? I am happy with my milk based drinks but I still can't quite get espresso to my liking. I might be expecting too much from the machine but I have been out at restaurants and had fantastic espresso so its not that I don't like it or don't appreciate it.


Yep I do. Have had some great shots and some not so great shots - user error







Still learning all the time. Are you weighing your coffee in and out and timing your shots?


----------



## mctrials23

Cheers for the replies folks. I'm generally putting 18g in for 36 out but I have tried a 1:3 ratio as well. General time of shot is ~30s from start of pre-infusion.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Cheers for the replies folks. I'm generally putting 18g in for 36 out but I have tried a 1:3 ratio as well. General time of shot is ~30s from start of pre-infusion.


Trying dosing 17g>30g out. I've had my tastiest shots cutting them before the 1:2 ratio. Obviously depends on the beans but worth a go


----------



## Mr Kirk

Just done a couple of shots at 17g > 33g. About 25 seconds. I think that's a sweet spot for me. Also getting better with the milk.


----------



## joey24dirt

Mr Kirk said:


> Just done a couple of shots at 17g > 33g. About 25 seconds. I think that's a sweet spot for me. Also getting better with the milk.


Did you try it as an espresso?


----------



## radam87

Mr Kirk said:


> Just done a couple of shots at 17g > 33g. About 25 seconds. I think that's a sweet spot for me. Also getting better with the milk.


Nice - where did you pick up the milk skills - I'm still pretty green in this area.


----------



## Mr Kirk

joey24dirt said:


> Did you try it as an espresso?


Yes, had a sip before putting the milk in. I do most of the time to see how I'm getting on.



radam87 said:


> Nice - where did you pick up the milk skills - I'm still pretty green in this area.


YouTube, tips on here, and trial and error! I did two in a row earlier for me and the missus. So I made a mental note of what I did and will repeat next time


----------



## colb16

Evening All, in the last two weeks I've noticed that my DTP isn't using as much water as it used to. Having to refill the tank less frequently. Must actually measure how many i get from full tank when I refill again. Haven't noticed any difference in my coffee's. Anyone else have this happen at any stage?. Cheers


----------



## Mr Kirk

Have you been more efficient with your steaming?

As an update, I'm getting used to my grinders and dtp. With a bit of practice my latte art is improving.



















Noticed I held my jug slightly twisted, hence the art slightly to the side, so I will try and correct that.


----------



## joey24dirt

colb16 said:


> Evening All, in the last two weeks I've noticed that my DTP isn't using as much water as it used to. Having to refill the tank less frequently. Must actually measure how many i get from full tank when I refill again. Haven't noticed any difference in my coffee's. Anyone else have this happen at any stage?. Cheers


I can't say I've ever noticed.

Do you weigh your shots?


----------



## colb16

joey24dirt said:


> I can't say I've ever noticed.
> 
> Do you weigh your shots?


Yes weigh my shots each time, haven't been doing anything different that I can think of. Will see how I go over next couple of water tank refills, maybe it was an anomaly.


----------



## joey24dirt

colb16 said:


> Yes weigh my shots each time, haven't been doing anything different that I can think of. Will see how I go over next couple of water tank refills, maybe it was an anomaly.


Have you changed the size of the milk pitcher to a smaller one? As mentioned earlier could be down to steaming. Interesting to find out though if you get to the bottom of it.


----------



## PPapa

Show off your toolkit, folk!

I'll start - just before weekly sinking into Cafiza.


----------



## joey24dirt

Most of my kit. Obviously I have cups and milk pitchers.... oh and two tamping mats. One for the edge and one fits perfectly on top of the DTP.


----------



## PPapa

What's that whisk tool?!

By the way, how are you getting on with IMS basket? I wanted to throw as far away as I can since it's less forgiving than the Sage one, but now I'm back to nice pours


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> What's that whisk tool?!
> 
> By the way, how are you getting on with IMS basket? I wanted to throw as far away as I can since it's less forgiving than the Sage one, but now I'm back to nice pours


I'm really liking the IMS kit. The Cherry Cherry I'm on at the moment is coming out beautifully, textbook god shots nearly every time......

It's just a normal whisk chopped down but I've left the arms straight. Seems to work loads better than when I had the ends curled around. I copied those new pin cushion push tamper things that are starting to pop up on instagram.


----------



## PPapa

Simply brilliant! Didn't think of it, at all.

I've been using a T5 screwdriver which I had lying around with no purpose (came with the Ridge wallet), but will need to get a whisk I can chop off now.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Simply brilliant! Didn't think of it, at all.
> 
> I've been using a T5 screwdriver which I had lying around with no purpose (came with the Ridge wallet), but will need to get a whisk I can chop off now.


Just a small cheap one from Ebay. Some cutters and done. Makes a huge difference along with the distributor tool. Need to think of a short name for those lol


----------



## Mr Kirk

Can someone post a link for the shower screen, please?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Simply brilliant! Didn't think of it, at all.
> 
> I've been using a T5 screwdriver which I had lying around with no purpose (came with the Ridge wallet), but will need to get a whisk I can chop off now.


Just a small cheap one from Ebay. Some cutters and done. Makes a huge difference along with the distributor tool. Need to think of a short name for those lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Mr Kirk said:


> Can someone post a link for the shower screen, please?


https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/en/IMS-Spaziale-Integrated-Shower-Screen-484mm---SP200IM/m-m-2022.aspx


----------



## Aharries

I've recently purchased the IMS kit. Love the look of it. The shower screen fits lovely but I have to say has made no difference to the coffee, it is also even worse than the stock screen for flow being right dominant. This has to have an effect on even extraction so I'm tempted to go back. The basket however is fantastic! Shots have more depth and creamer without any other changes. Also finding it easier to dial in and distribute. I think the extra space is key.

Will post a pic of my kit soon, about to do a clean.


----------



## Aharries

*creamier (they do have a better crema too, but that's less important to me)


----------



## 9719

'The shower screen fits lovely but I have to say has made no difference to the coffee, it is also even worse than the stock screen for flow being right dominant.'

Check out the following link, might be the answer to the right side flow, then again maybe not, my work surface was way of level, causing lop sided flows when checked. Hope it helps.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/levelling-the-coffee-machine


----------



## Mr Kirk

Which basket are people using worth the naked portafilter?


----------



## joey24dirt

Mr Kirk said:


> Which basket are people using worth the naked portafilter?


I bought the double IMS for mine and before that just the double sage


----------



## mctrials23

Just using the standard double basket with the naked PF. Seems to work well.


----------



## fatboyslim

Just bought a DTP from Lakeland price-matched from Amazon for £295 with 3 year warranty.

Please can I join the club?


----------



## PPapa

fatboyslim said:


> Just bought a DTP from Lakeland price-matched from Amazon for £295 with 3 year warranty.
> 
> Please can I join the club?


Only if you go naked!

Oh wait, that doesn't sound right.

Welcome to the club


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Just bought a DTP from Lakeland price-matched from Amazon for £295 with 3 year warranty.
> 
> Please can I join the club?


There's a bit of an initiation that you'll need to go through 

I still can't sit down properly after mine!


----------



## jimbocz

joey24dirt said:


> There's a bit of an initiation that you'll need to go through
> 
> I still can't sit down properly after mine!


I'm still finding coffee grinds in strange places.


----------



## fatboyslim

joey24dirt said:


> There's a bit of an initiation that you'll need to go through
> 
> I still can't sit down properly after mine!


Oh gosh what have I got myself into!

So are there any essential mods? Naked PF would be cool but it would require drilling out a standard PF?

I might try to persuade my friend to make me a nice walnut handle on his lathe.


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Oh gosh what have I got myself into!
> 
> So are there any essential mods? Naked PF would be cool but it would require drilling out a standard PF?
> 
> I might try to persuade my friend to make me a nice walnut handle on his lathe.


The handle are a bit of a chew to change. Some sort of composite moulded onto a stub. I've changed one to a skateboard handle but it wasn't as simple as screwing it off lol.

The naked pf is a good one to have and the distributor tools are also great.

I actually have an extra pf that I was going to mod and sell if interested? Just drop me a PM if you like


----------



## joey24dirt

Made this little beauty today (the base) I forgot to measure it though as I was just trying it in a basket as I trimmed it down.

Really snug fit for the IMS baskets, going to give it a go in the next half hour to see what it's like


----------



## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> Made this little beauty today (the base) I forgot to measure it though as I was just trying it in a basket as I trimmed it down.
> 
> Really snug fit for the IMS baskets, going to give it a go in the next half hour to see what it's like


Wow that is a very nice bit of kit! How would I go about persuading you to make me one? I've got a really crap lightweight tamper at the moment and it sucks!


----------



## joey24dirt

JimBean1 said:


> Wow that is a very nice bit of kit! How would I go about persuading you to make me one? I've got a really crap lightweight tamper at the moment and it sucks!


Just ask lol. I have a few handles ready made so just need bases to go with. If you want just send a PM and we can sort something out


----------



## fatboyslim

First time making coffee for guests. 18g split pour into 2 flat white cups. Steamed enough milk. All done and served in no time at all.

Really loving this little machine. It's certainly very capable. My only issue is the basket is sticking to the gasket so the PF is coming out basket-less after pulling a shot. Going to invest in the IMS basket for lower doses.


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> First time making coffee for guests. 18g split pour into 2 flat white cups. Steamed enough milk. All done and served in no time at all.
> 
> Really loving this little machine. It's certainly very capable. My only issue is the basket is sticking to the gasket so the PF is coming out basket-less after pulling a shot. Going to invest in the IMS basket for lower doses.


Aw yeah it's quite annoying when the puck sticks, although thinking about it since swapping to IMS it's not an issue now 

Glad you're enjoying it


----------



## PPapa

I get the basket sticking only if I remove the spring. Might be worth tightening the spring if you get it stuck too often?


----------



## Slates71

joey24dirt said:


> Most of my kit. Obviously I have cups and milk pitchers.... oh and two tamping mats. One for the edge and one fits perfectly on top of the DTP.


Hi,

Just noticed your portafilter doesn't have the black plastic disc in the bottom that the filter sits on,mine does,do you recommend removing this?something I've always thought was crucial to have?

Thank you

Paul


----------



## joey24dirt

Slates71 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just noticed your portafilter doesn't have the black plastic disc in the bottom that the filter sits on,mine does,do you recommend removing this?something I've always thought was crucial to have?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Paul


Erm it's up to you really. I think it's to do with temperature control at first start up.

I can't say I've noticed a difference either way


----------



## JimBean1

joey24dirt said:


> Erm it's up to you really. I think it's to do with temperature control at first start up.
> 
> I can't say I've noticed a difference either way


 @Slates71 Because the DTP is ready to brew so quickly it doesn't properly warm everything up so your initially extracting through cold metal so they added a plastic disc to negate this - however i also removed mine and simply run a couple of cups of water through and a do a steam cycle then everything is nice and hot.


----------



## Mr Kirk

Had to log on to say I've just pulled a shot which was like drinking a packet of opal fruits. Wow it was nice. Can't remember the bean as I've thrown the packet. It was whatever the has bean sub was for October. (Been in the freezer.

I was struggling with it tasting over extracted but it was pulling too quickly. Half a notch finer on the zenith and it's sorted.


----------



## mctrials23

I'm sure the answer to this is no but is there any way to change the pre-infusion time on the DTP?


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> I'm sure the answer to this is no but is there any way to change the pre-infusion time on the DTP?


That's right. The answer is no unfortunately.

However I've just had a little discussion with @fatboyslim over the possibility of modding this, so maybe in the future we can figure out a hack for this


----------



## roaringboy

joey24dirt said:


> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/en/IMS-Spaziale-Integrated-Shower-Screen-484mm---SP200IM/m-m-2022.aspx


Is that just a straight swap for the standard one?


----------



## PPapa

roaringboy said:


> Is that just a straight swap for the standard one?


That's correct.


----------



## roaringboy

Latte (flat white) art is getting better... still not as good as I was with the classic but definitely improving


----------



## ssd

First time poster here - I found this thread a few weeks ago and read all 64 pages!!! Great to find this resource.

I got in touch with Joe as really wanted a bottomless portafilter. I ended up getting the distribution tool too - Joe is an absolute pleasure to deal with and I love my purchases! Thanks mate!

Obsevations: i) the pf is so much lighter ii) it's much easier to tamp with a flat bottom to the pf iii) I genuinely think I'm pulling a better shot for this mod iv) the distribution tool is a better addition than I thought it would be.


----------



## joey24dirt

ssd said:


> First time poster here - I found this thread a few weeks ago and read all 64 pages!!! Great to find this resource.
> 
> I got in touch with Joe as really wanted a bottomless portafilter. I ended up getting the distribution tool too - Joe is an absolute pleasure to deal with and I love my purchases! Thanks mate!
> 
> Obsevations: i) the pf is so much lighter ii) it's much easier to tamp with a flat bottom to the pf iii) I genuinely think I'm pulling a better shot for this mod iv) the distribution tool is a better addition than I thought it would be.
> 
> View attachment 30656


Nothing better than hearing you guys are happy with the work I do


----------



## roaringboy

joey24dirt said:


> Nothing better than hearing you guys are happy with the work I do


*waits in anticipation*


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> *waits in anticipation*


Haha I know. Back on it Monday hopefully


----------



## PPapa

roaringboy said:


> *waits in anticipation*


Haha, keeping Joey busy


----------



## mctrials23

To be fair, the main reason I love the bottomless PF is just watching the shot come out of it. Its sad but I think I have watched nearly every shot from underneath the machine since I got it.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> To be fair, the main reason I love the bottomless PF is just watching the shot come out of it. Its sad but I think I have watched nearly every shot from underneath the machine since I got it.


I'm the same!! I can't help but bend down to watch. Even the kids come over and watch haha


----------



## adz313

joey24dirt said:


> Haha I know. Back on it Monday hopefully


Joey - are you still making these?

To save reading through the bits of the thread I've missed - how much?


----------



## joey24dirt

adz313 said:


> Joey - are you still making these?
> 
> To save reading through the bits of the thread I've missed - how much?


The tampers? Yeah but slowly haha. Send me a pm if you like with what you need


----------



## fatboyslim

Here is a simple video showing making an espresso on DTP...in 4K









The tamping stage got cut off unfortunately...use your imagination.


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Here is a simple video showing making an espresso on DTP...in 4K
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tamping stage got cut off unfortunately...use your imagination.


Nice edit!

How are you finding it so far?


----------



## fatboyslim

joey24dirt said:


> Nice edit!
> 
> How are you finding it so far?


Still think its a great machine. The only bad point is that it likes to turn itself off before I'm totally convinced everything has warmed up. Yes you can purge a little water but it would be nice if it stayed on a little longer.

It also seems to drink more volvic than water comes out of the group...a mystery!

Distribution, dose weight and tamp are factors I'm playing with while keeping the grind the same. 17.5g in the IMS basket with a fairly hard tamp seems to work. Or 18g with a lighter tamp.

I'm not sure which gives the better extractions.

(Video was my first edit using Premiere! So much to learn)


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Still think its a great machine. The only bad point is that it likes to turn itself off before I'm totally convinced everything has warmed up. Yes you can purge a little water but it would be nice if it stayed on a little longer.
> 
> It also seems to drink more volvic than water comes out of the group...a mystery!
> 
> Distribution, dose weight and tamp are factors I'm playing with while keeping the grind the same. 17.5g in the IMS basket with a fairly hard tamp seems to work. Or 18g with a lighter tamp.
> 
> I'm not sure which gives the better extractions.
> 
> (Video was my first edit using Premiere! So much to learn)


Ah yes the auto shut off is a little annoying. We need to figure out how to bypass that I think.

With regards to it liking a drink.... I think as it's sat idling the machine will slowly dribble water into the drip tray. I've noticed this a few times and it's not good considering the tray isn't that big to begin with.

In other DTP news. I'm set to order a voltage regulator to see if this basic pressure profile thing will work. It should do. I'll be shopping for gauges tomorrow also so hopefully I can find something to suit from my local spot


----------



## mctrials23

@fatboyslim, where did you get the little metal collar for the portafilter from?

I tried to make one from plastic but its crap and not heavy enough.

You should get yourself a bottomless PF as well!


----------



## fatboyslim

mctrials23 said:


> @fatboyslim, where did you get the little metal collar for the portafilter from?
> 
> I tried to make one from plastic but its crap and not heavy enough.
> 
> You should get yourself a bottomless PF as well!


Our very own @Norvin makes them. See his thread here https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?36715-Aluminium-Portafilter-hopper/page17

You need a 53.5mm one for the DTP. They are excellent!


----------



## PPapa

I threw it into the cafiza solution once and the chrome finish came off. The grounds stick to the walls now. So don't do that.


----------



## ajohn

More or less the same machine as the BE in terms of heat up time. When the lights come on to tell you it's ready it is. I assume the DTP does the same. However a few things aren't heated up. Maybe a bit of tube in the machine, the shower screen and the portafilter. Easy to get round.

One way is run a double through the portafilter with an empty basket in it. Dry it and add your grounds - pull the shot.

That doesn't get the portafilter very hot though but is a big improvement and 2 shots on the trot should taste the same. Removing the plastic bit at the bottom might help heating the portafilter up but from where I am sitting that is there to prevent the portafilter from taking too much heat out of the shot. Shouldn't matter if flushing does heat it up. Open bottom ones don't have that problem.

However if some one wants the same heat in the portafilter as a boiler machine with a heated group head gives after a long wait flush through one of the pressurised baskets first. That gets it really hot. Stays hot as several shots are pulled as well. It needs something to get the pressurised basket out - it'll all be too hot to touch. Considering a boiler machine can take 20min or even longer in many cases to heat the lot up it's a small penalty to pay.

An open bottom might take less heat out. Haven't got one so pass but if it's cold it will take some away. Flushing through an ordinary filter basket does tend to heat the top of the normal portafilter up so that might still be the best way to go and very probably is for other reasons.

Out of interest neither the grinder in the BE or the SGP clump grinds. I want to make a collar for grinding on the BE as when beans and grind cause a huge heap some always falls out. Not sure how much space there is though. Probably not enough. On the SGP I grind into the part of a hand grinder that gets the grinds. It fits nicely into a sage filter basket. Good use for it rather than throwing the hand grinder away.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Gauge location.... high or low??


----------



## PPapa

Low!


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Low!


Definitely easier to see


----------



## Mr Kirk

But maybe not quite that low. Half an inch higher.


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Definitely easier to see


Just hope you don't get spraying... gonna be painful to clean!


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Just hope you don't get spraying... gonna be painful to clean!


That a good point. Hopefully it will be ok and clean up easy. I don't think it will last long anyway due to the rated temperature of it. Probably kill off the seals

@Mr Kirk yes you're right... a little higher should be fine. I just need to be brave now and drill a hole through my machine


----------



## roaringboy

One bottomless portafilter created by my own fair hands!

51mm hole cutter and some needle files done the trick nicely.


----------



## MildredM

joey24dirt said:


> That a good point. Hopefully it will be ok and clean up easy. I don't think it will last long anyway due to the rated temperature of it. Probably kill off the seals
> 
> @Mr Kirk yes you're right... a little higher should be fine. I just need to be brave now and drill a hole through my machine


Is there are way to do it so you don't have to drill?


----------



## Gaz|

Be bending down to see it if it was too high Joey, is either go middle or low. Interesting to see it finished, will be taking notes!


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> One bottomless portafilter created by my own fair hands!
> 
> 51mm hole cutter and some needle files done the trick nicely.


It's great leaving the lip on the bottom for when you clean with a tablet. I just pop that bit of plastic back in otherwise you get a big mess haha. Great work


----------



## joey24dirt

MildredM said:


> Is there are way to do it so you don't have to drill?


Possibly but you might see the additional pipework. I did consider having it piped through where the magnetic tamper docks but changed my mind.

My warranty is void now anyway with the other stuff I've done so at least I don't have to worry about that. I suppose worse case scenario is I don't like it and have to put a rubber grommet in the hole 

Fortune favours the brave and all that (should add that to the favourite sayings thread hehe)


----------



## Gaz|

Joey, would there be no way in installing it outside of the case for test purposes? Just to save drilling before testing?

Edit: just seen your reply.. is there no way to come from the side and make a block with a hole in it for the gauge, so it is stuck to the side like a magnetic temp reader..?


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Joey, would there be no way in installing it outside of the case for test purposes? Just to save drilling before testing?
> 
> Edit: just seen your reply.. is there no way to come from the side and make a block with a hole in it for the gauge, so it is stuck to the side like a magnetic temp reader..?


Yeah testing before drilling will be the way I think. The aim is to try and measure the pump pressure (I think) then I have a adjustable voltage regulator to then mess about with that pressure.

Hopefully it won't just blow up in my face. I'm sure it will be fine. If not it's all down to @fatboyslim for sowing the seeds in my brain haha


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah testing before drilling will be the way I think. The aim is to try and measure the pump pressure (I think) then I have a adjustable voltage regulator to then mess about with that pressure.
> 
> Hopefully it won't just blow up in my face. I'm sure it will be fine. If not it's all down to @fatboyslim for sowing the seeds in my brain haha


I assume this is a pressure gauge ? I find them useful - keeping in tune if I'm not using a fully full basket and tuning - I know if I don't see any pre infusion pressure I probably wont like it. I've started to try and get that as high as possible. Keeping in tune always seems to mean grinding time adjustment on the BE. It doesn't take much of a change in that to see a bit of a drop in peak pressure. Only problem is that inconsistent tamping can shift that either way. In my case grinder output mostly drops off but does increase at times. The impression of the hex socket in the screw holding the shower screw in place in the puck is a much better way of maintaining the tune if the basket is optimally filled to the max. I reckon it's possible to hold to about 0.1g of grounds in the single using that. The idea is to see a partial impression of it.







If I like the taste when things are like that I actually then tune to the impression and keep it like that.

I'm guessing but think that they control pump "pressure" by pulsing the pump some how much like they do on steam but not so obvious. That would slow down the rate the water goes into the grounds so it's more of a case of the pressure building up slowly which it does and then suddenly switches to flat out where the needle goes up like a rocket.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> I'm guessing but think that they control pump "pressure" by pulsing the pump some how much like they do on steam but not so obvious. That would slow down the rate the water goes into the grounds so it's more of a case of the pressure building up slowly which it does and then suddenly switches to flat out where the needle goes up like a rocket.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I suspect that it's some kind of timer that's part of the board. It runs pre for 10 seconds then ramps up. Once the wife is in bed I'm going to test the voltage at the pump with a multimeter. I'm expecting to see a lower voltage of around 100v say, then hopefully watch it build up to full 230v. I'll be amazed if those figures are right haha


----------



## joey24dirt

So I took a short video. I'll start a new thread for the mod and upload it to there. Basically wen you switch to brew the voltage drops to 189v for 10 seconds and then after that returns to 230v. Very promising as it means the voltage regulator should work as a form or basic pressure profiling 

Edit:

Forgot to mention that this can be almost calibrated again the gauge so you know where you would be in terms of voltage and pressure.... for example the 189v may equate to 6bar and 230v 9bar.


----------



## joey24dirt

After a play around with the first gauge I've found that yes it will work where I'm trying to fit it, however it needs to be glycerine filled to control the needle. My local suppliers only have glycerine in 63mm (originally wanted 40mm). I had one from a previous job to try....










Replace mag tamper with a gauge perhaps? Only trouble is it's upside down lol.


----------



## fatboyslim

Very promising results. Is there any indication where the programmed voltage drop for pre-infusion comes from? I.e. a fancy control board? Would need to potentially bypass it?


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Very promising results. Is there any indication where the programmed voltage drop for pre-infusion comes from? I.e. a fancy control board? Would need to potentially bypass it?


I didn't go that far into it tonight but there is a few plastic housings with circuitry inside. I think it will be ok as it is and just mess with the voltage as it goes.

Also inside, these have an adjustable OPV. I know the classic users would normally mod this so it will be interesting to investigate further. They have a toothed adjustment ring so it should be easy to move in small increments and if not happy you can get back to original settings. It's been a good night of investigating


----------



## ajohn

No I don't think it will calibrate pressure. The pump pushes less water through during infusion so pressure builds more slowly and at some point the water can pass through the coffee. The peak infusion pressure is set by the grind and fill etc. The BE gauge doesn'r show actual bars just an espresso range. From what I can gather that is something like 7 to 11 bars. I've just tried grinding my monsooned one BE knotch finer. Net result peak infusion pressure is about twice what it was and it takes a lot longer before anything flows out of the portafilter. Peak pressure 11 bars, more or less the same as it was, just a bit higher. Stronger drink with the same taste, damp top to the puck though but it still pop out via 2 knocks just leaving a few grounds. The damp is down to the finer grind.

I'd suspect your voltage readings are down to what you used to read them and it's pulsed at 240v really. Also on the BE the gauge still shows a reading when the pump stalls so full scale is probably over 15 bar. No OPV valve but given that there is a range of pressures that can be used for espresso those in some ways don't make much sense. In a nut shell the grind and fill set the pressure that will be reached. What will happen if an OPV valve is fitted is that the shot flow rate will drop off or stop increasing as soon as it activates. My Piccino seems to have one and returns the water to the tank when it activates. On a Sage it would need adding before the thermoblock.







Thermoblock as they used to use one that wasn't a coil and apparently it wasn't very good. Thermoblock doesn't suggest any shape.

You probably need an oscilloscope to see what's really going on at the pump. As to control I'd expect to see a microprocessor as this sort of thing and timing is an ideal thing for them to do. Probably has none volatile memory in it as well so that settings can be saved. I should have used the word microcontroller really, same thing as a processor but timers, a/d and all sorts of odds and sods can be in them. Cheap too.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> No I don't think it will calibrate pressure. The pump pushes less water through during infusion so pressure builds more slowly and at some point the water can pass through the coffee. The peak infusion pressure is set by the grind and fill etc. The BE gauge doesn'r show actual bars just an espresso range. From what I can gather that is something like 7 to 11 bars. I've just tried grinding my monsooned one BE knotch finer. Net result peak infusion pressure is about twice what it was and it takes a lot longer before anything flows out of the portafilter. Peak pressure 11 bars, more or less the same as it was, just a bit higher. Stronger drink with the same taste, damp top to the puck though but it still pop out via 2 knocks just leaving a few grounds. The damp is down to the finer grind.
> 
> I'd suspect your voltage readings are down to what you used to read them and it's pulsed at 240v really. Also on the BE the gauge still shows a reading when the pump stalls so full scale is probably over 15 bar. No OPV valve but given that there is a range of pressures that can be used for espresso those in some ways don't make much sense. In a nut shell the grind and fill set the pressure that will be reached. What will happen if an OPV valve is fitted is that the shot flow rate will drop off or stop increasing as soon as it activates. My Piccino seems to have one and returns the water to the tank when it activates. On a Sage it would need adding before the thermoblock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thermoblock as they used to use one that wasn't a coil and apparently it wasn't very good. Thermoblock doesn't suggest any shape.
> 
> You probably need an oscilloscope to see what's really going on at the pump. As to control I'd expect to see a microprocessor as this sort of thing and timing is an ideal thing for them to do. Probably has none volatile memory in it as well so that settings can be saved. I should have used the word microcontroller really, same thing as a processor but timers, a/d and all sorts of odds and sods can be in them. Cheap too.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Cheers for the info. I'll have to upload the video I took of the multimeter so you can see what it was doing. Should be interesting to see what these voltage regulators can do once here.

There's definitely an OPV fitted though. I actually first noticed it in a post about a breville BE, so I then thought I'd check mine and sure enough it's there. White plastic valve between the pump and thermoblock, with a drain back to drip tray. Hopefully with a gauge fitted I can see what this is set to, or will I need to fit the gauge to the pf for accuracy?

Anyway it's too much for me to think about now. It's late and I still need to make lunch for my boys haha. Resume tomorrow


----------



## Teejay

Been reading this whole thread with interest. Lots of modification out there to be made, love the naked porta filter. I'm still in deciding mode 'narrowed' down to a few. I won't be making any mods but love reading about what others tinkering


----------



## ajohn

OPV interesting. It would explain why our drip tray seems to fill more quickly of late. I can't tune with a 40g pack of beans split for 3 people so just use a grind which is sure to get a fair amount of extraction = high pressures. I had to coarsen the grind a touch because at times most of the shot dripped out on some of the beans. I'd assume that means that the OPV had opened. It would also explain why the pressure gauge only goes so far what ever I do - some way past the espresso range shown on it. When I have mentioned stalling the machine what I probably mean is that the OPV pressure just can't force water through the grinds. Only happened a couple of times and I kill the shot immediately so wouldn't notice that the pump is still running.







The noise the BE pump makes is disgusting - sounds like it's mounted on a tin can - unlike the Piccino.








My immediate thought on OPV output going to the drip tray is what would happen if it went back to the feed from the tank. That might just mean that the pressure needed to open it would go up by 300mm water gauge or so if the tank was full. That's 0.0245 bar. Maybe there is some complication, hard to see one though but the Piccino seems to use a separate pipe that makes it harder to get the tank out. Maybe the heat from the pump would warm up the water as it'll probably recirculate through it.

Baskets are still annoying me. Not my cup of tea but say some one wanted to make 2 milk based at the same time. The machines have plenty of mug height so these could be large drinks. 2 of our 400mm can be used with the dual output on the portafilter. Many use the double basket for singles - says it all. If some one tried 2 large milk based they are likely to have to use the same sort of guppy blends Starbucks etc use.

The la spaz pod filter basket holds 13.4g of a rather fine grind when trimmed with the razor tool so can probably hold a bit more. Unlike that grind in the Sage single the puck was bone dry. I can't help wondering if that is down to the design of the Sage single - steep taper where generally all the others mostly use depth and the perforation area as the control. Maybe they should have had IMS design them for them rather than who knows and made in China. It seems IMS make for many of the espresso machine manufacturers - are they expensive - no, unless they get a super polish and a bit of engraving so some barista judge can see all are using the same basket.

;-( circa 13.4 is one hell of a jump from 9.x though but does fit in. It over extracted monsooned and was too strong to taste properly really anyway. Probably a very handy capacity to have. Shame that the rim diameter needs reducing some how. The metal seems to be a bit thicker than Sage or the other la spaz fit baskets I have so it is a bit tighter fit. The 14g version of these may be an answer for people who want a triple. I'd waste too many beans trying to find out what that will hold effectively. They are on Amazon. The pod basket is on ebay - no ridge so a bit easier to get in and out.

The only place to get a sensible constant pressure reading of the water flow is between the pump and top of the grinds. Sticking it after the thermoblock would do but the heat wouldn't be a good idea.

I believe that the infusion can be tuned on the dual boiler. Now that would be an interesting thing to add to the touch barista. No pressure gauge though. Higher end stuff elsewhere with touch often use a rotary encoder to change numbers rather than peoples fingers on the screen.








Maybe the best idea is to take all of the bits out of either of these machines and transfer them to an E61 machine. That looses all of the money Sage or who ever spent making the tooling to produce the general chassis and bits an pieces such as the water tank. It'd also result in a cold group head.







I start wondering what Fracino would charge for a Gem chassis and it's sticking out coffee related bits. No I don't think so.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Tamper dock or...










Towards the back?


----------



## PPapa

Is the gauge upside down? 

Can you take the portafilter out if it's on the left? If so, then that'd be my vote.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Is the gauge upside down?
> 
> Can you take the portafilter out if it's on the left? If so, then that'd be my vote.


Yeah it's upside down lol. Won't matter much when I'm used to it. I can just get it out with the there plus I don't need to cut anything or drill that side.


----------



## roaringboy

Does anyone actually use the tamper holder? I just find the tamper gets wet from the steam.


----------



## PPapa

roaringboy said:


> Does anyone actually use the tamper holder? I just find the tamper gets wet from the steam.


Does anyone use the stock tamper?


----------



## fatboyslim

PPapa said:


> Does anyone use the stock tamper?


Yes and yes. I love the stock tamper and it's integrated-ness!


----------



## roaringboy

PPapa said:


> Does anyone use the stock tamper?


Only until @joey24dirt pulls his finger out ?


----------



## joey24dirt

Pressure gauge all plumbed in and working. First couple of shots had pre infusion of around 2bar and then ramped up to 6bar. I think in the future I'll change that gauge from 63mm to 50mm. Looks a bit big.

16g > 34g in around 40seconds.

Tasted ok as espresso but as a flat white it was really nice.

Tonight's task will be messing around with the OPV but I'm guessing I'll need a blind basket for that? I could try using the cleaning disk and pressurised basket I suppose to see what the incremental adjustments give me.


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Tonight's task will be messing around with the OPV but I'm guessing I'll need a blind basket for that? I could try using the cleaning disk and pressurised basket I suppose to see what the incremental adjustments give me.


Well done Joey.

Could you not grind too fine to a level where you choke the machine? Not the best idea, but I have a feeling cleaning disk won't get the right numbers.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Well done Joey.
> 
> Could you not grind too fine to a level where you choke the machine? Not the best idea, but I have a feeling cleaning disk won't get the right numbers.


Yeah that's what I was thinking also. Too many areas for pressure to leak. I wonder if la Spaziale do a blind basket. Or I wonder if I could just mod a sage one? I could do a little spot weld over the single hole on a pressurised basket


----------



## PPapa

@joey24dirt yeah there are some:

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blind-Filter-La-Spaziale-Basket-Blank-Blanking-Backflushing-Backflush-Disc-Disk-/401312696307

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/en/Spaziale-53mm-Stainless-Steel-Blanking-Disc---00647/m-m-2348.aspx

Though I don't know how useful that is for a daily use without a 3 way solenoid valve? I don't want an explosion lol!


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> @joey24dirt yeah there are some:
> 
> https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blind-Filter-La-Spaziale-Basket-Blank-Blanking-Backflushing-Backflush-Disc-Disk-/401312696307
> 
> https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/en/Spaziale-53mm-Stainless-Steel-Blanking-Disc---00647/m-m-2348.aspx
> 
> Though I don't know how useful that is for a daily use without a 3 way solenoid valve? I don't want an explosion lol!


I have my solenoid valve I fit so it should be ok. It should also just vent through that OPV once it's reached it's set point but I get what you mean. Better safe than sorry


----------



## mctrials23

Great work as always Joey!

Its a shame that in the UK we only get the DTP instead of the foreign version which has the pressure dial built in. Breville infuser is it?


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Great work as always Joey!
> 
> Its a shame that in the UK we only get the DTP instead of the foreign version which has the pressure dial built in. Breville infuser is it?


Yeah that's the one. I think my machine may be up to that spec now haha.

The gauge will come good when these voltage regulators arrive. Definitely excited to try it. If the worst happens, then there's a bare DTP available on Ebay for £100


----------



## roaringboy

I always find it strange that companies manufacture espresso machines to operate at 15 bar when espresso by definition should be extracted at 9. I assume it's to be more forgiving with crap pre-ground coffee.


----------



## fatboyslim

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah that's what I was thinking also. Too many areas for pressure to leak. I wonder if la Spaziale do a blind basket. Or I wonder if I could just mod a sage one? I could do a little spot weld over the single hole on a pressurised basket


Assuming you'll never use the pressurised baskets, it would be pretty easy to mod one of them to be a blank basket?


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> Assuming you'll never use the pressurised baskets, it would be pretty easy to mod one of them to be a blank basket?


That's what I was thinking. Just bung up the little hole with something


----------



## ajohn

One of the ideas of the Sage rubber back flush disk is that people get to clean a basket and the portafilter as well. I have a feeling that they don't work correctly unless there is a tablet on them.

Think I have seen a post where some one left a ridge at the bottom of an open bottomed portafilter for the back flush disk - it should just be dropped in a filter basket and pushed down a bit.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Small update on the recent OPV discovery. I made a blind basket to check what pressure the OPV was stalling out at. This was 7bar. Going off what the classic owners have been doing I aimed for 9bar before the OPV kicks in.










To adjust, just pop those two little clips off on either side of the valve. I then turned it in 1.5 turns to get to 9bar or as close as I could.

**please isolate machine from the mains before attempting this**

Obviously doing this without a gauge isn't advisable also as you won't know exactly where your are at with the pressure.

I can't wait until morning now to give it a go


----------



## PPapa

Is that the thermocoil at the top left? I imagined it's going to be at least half the height of the machine, but it's tiny!


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Is that the thermocoil at the top left? I imagined it's going to be at least half the height of the machine, but it's tiny!


Yeah that's it haha. Not much to them is there


----------



## roaringboy

Have you fitted that opv or is it standard equipment you've been fiddling with?


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> Have you fitted that opv or is it standard equipment you've been fiddling with?


It's standard with the kit  not really sure if it has helped. The shot this morning tasted cack but I think it's the beans. Don't really like them haha


----------



## MildredM

joey24dirt said:


> That's what I was thinking. Just bung up the little hole with something


Do you know, that's what I think everytime I drill a hole in my Londinium


----------



## joey24dirt

MildredM said:


> Do you know, that's what I think everytime I drill a hole in my Londinium


----------



## ajohn

Are you sure about the 7 bar joey? They haven't put bar readings on the BE which is a bit sad just an arc labelled espresso range. I've been assuming that this is 6 to say 10 or 11 bar.

This is the gauge on the BE -







Should have cleaned it









If I stick a pressurised basket in the needle goes classical - dead vertical and also shows a bit of a pressure increase during pre infusion. There are suggestions about that the infusion range is 1 to 3 bar and vertical should be about 8 to 9 bar or a touch less. Those based on the dual boiler.






The OPV clearly opens on mine right at the end of the scale. some where at the end of the area where the espresso range greys out. So if the ticks shown around the scale are bars it's just about impossible to get up to the theoretical ideal 9 bar on the machine. If they are 1 bar ticks it also explains your 7 bar.

John

-


----------



## ajohn

@joey24dirt

There is proper gauge on the thermoblock machine shown clearly part way down this page

http://www.ascaso.com/div-espresso-coffee-machines-grinders/steel-3pid.html








The reviews on that one are interesting. The temperature it shows goes up after a shot is pulled. It's bound to on any thermoblock machine with PID if it's kept the water flow temperature constant during the shot. LOL they made a mistake showing it where as Sage don't. Smaller boiler machines may be the same but less of a temperature change.

I suspect that the OPV should be set at something like 11bar so that the grind etc can set the brew pressure not the machine. Be interested to know how you get on if you put it up where it should be.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

Had some spare time at work so decided to try make something useful for the DTP.. Here is MK1 of a hopper/tamper idea I had.

i thought about making a hopper for the sage grinder, whilst also doing something about tamping vertical.. So I decided to turn some 6081 aluminium with an inner lip to sit over the outside of the sage baskets OD and turn the inside diameter to the OD of the sage tamper, +- 0.1 so the tamper slides down the inside and anto the baskets keeping it vertical to the outside diameter of the tamper.

worked pretty well, all I've got to do now is make it smaller (overall height too tall, not as much lead in was needed as I thought) and also make the outside diameter of the hopper tapered probably to get rid of unnecessary material and also to fit under the Smart grinder pro a bit easier.

below are some quick image I took of the MK1.

ive also turned some more Ally whilst making this, ready for some milling next week. With the intention of making a tamping stand, but locating off the three lips around the outside of the PF for orientation and also flatness as the ones I've seen online are mainly sheet material pressed into shape and cost a small fortune.


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> @joey24dirt
> 
> There is proper gauge on the thermoblock machine shown clearly part way down this page
> 
> http://www.ascaso.com/div-espresso-coffee-machines-grinders/steel-3pid.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reviews on that one are interesting. The temperature it shows goes up after a shot is pulled. It's bound to on any thermoblock machine with PID if it's kept the water flow temperature constant during the shot. LOL they made a mistake showing it where as Sage don't. Smaller boiler machines may be the same but less of a temperature change.
> 
> I suspect that the OPV should be set at something like 11bar so that the grind etc can set the brew pressure not the machine. Be interested to know how you get on if you put it up where it should be.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Hi John, yes it was definitely around 7bar. Blank pf basket (filled a spare with resin to completely block the flow) then ran the machine, the gauge peaked at 7bar (100psi was a more accurate reading). I then increased the spring tension in the valve so that it released at 9bar. As of yet I don't know if it had made any difference, I haven't liked any shot of espresso recently but I think it's down to the beans I'm using. I write down settings for beans and I looked back at these ones and found I didn't like them the first time round either .

So that ascaso machine, it seems to be a similar thing to the machines we have. I've never seen that model before. I think it was the Dream I nearly bought before getting the DTP.


----------



## Gaz|

Oh, I forgot my failed attempt at some latte art after pulling probably my best shot with that perfectly tamped basket lol. I did also receive my new tamping mat and new 0.1g scales which helped me get 17.9g in and 36.2G out with a decent crema.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Had some spare time at work so decided to try make something useful for the DTP.. Here is MK1 of a hopper/tamper idea I had.
> 
> i thought about making a hopper for the sage grinder, whilst also doing something about tamping vertical.. So I decided to turn some 6081 aluminium with an inner lip to sit over the outside of the sage baskets OD and turn the inside diameter to the OD of the sage tamper, +- 0.1 so the tamper slides down the inside and anto the baskets keeping it vertical to the outside diameter of the tamper.
> 
> worked pretty well, all I've got to do now is make it smaller (overall height too tall, not as much lead in was needed as I thought) and also make the outside diameter of the hopper tapered probably to get rid of unnecessary material and also to fit under the Smart grinder pro a bit easier.
> 
> below are some quick image I took of the MK1.
> 
> ive also turned some more Ally whilst making this ready for some milling next week, with the intention of making a tamping stand, but locating off the three lips around the outside of the PF for roientation and also flatness as the ones I've seen online are mainly sheet material pressed into shape and cost a small fortune.


Like it!!


----------



## Gaz|

Cheers Joey, I was going to make a distribution tool like yours at first, as I've seen a lot of people use them, and looks a hell of a lot easier to tamp afterwards. Then I decided I might buy one and modify it like you did to fit, rather than milling a whole one from scratch lol.

Ill find a decent one to try any buy tonight.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Cheers Joey, I was going to make a distribution tool like yours at first, as I've seen a lot of people use them, and looks a hell of a lot easier to tamp afterwards. Then I decided I might buy one and modify it like you did to fit, rather than milling a whole one from scratch lol.
> 
> Ill find a decent one to try any buy tonight.


Best bet is the popular auction site. Around £19 is about average for them. Definitely worth having in my eyes, although I am actually without one at the moment. Maybe why my shots are off haha.


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> Best bet is the popular auction site. Around £19 is about average for them. Definitely worth having in my eyes, although I am actually without one at the moment. Maybe why my shots are off haha.


agh yes, I am looking through them now.. I'm trying to get a gauge as to the depths of the blades on them, as I've read some are quite shallow, although I'm sure turning a bigger step into the side may overcome this to allow it to go deeper. Will look now and see if I can get it done before Christmas!

haha yes, I've been trying to dial in the grinder and DTP to give a better espresso taste.. Just had some beans turn up from rave as well so fingers crossed lol.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> agh yes, I am looking through them now.. I'm trying to get a gauge as to the depths of the blades on them, as I've read some are quite shallow, although I'm sure turning a bigger step into the side may overcome this to allow it to go deeper. Will look now and see if I can get it done before Christmas!
> 
> haha yes, I've been trying to dial in the grinder and DTP to give a better espresso taste.. Just had some beans turn up from rave as well so fingers crossed lol.


The distributors I used had a step of about 4mm. Then obviously just take the OD down until it fits 

I have tried rave in the past but I couldn't get away with it. These beans I'm on now are from my local spot. I always try to support local business but if I'm not fully enjoying the product then it's definitely hard to stay completely loyal.


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Hi John, yes it was definitely around 7bar. Blank pf basket (filled a spare with resin to completely block the flow) then ran the machine, the gauge peaked at 7bar (100psi was a more accurate reading). I then increased the spring tension in the valve so that it released at 9bar. As of yet I don't know if it had made any difference, I haven't liked any shot of espresso recently but I think it's down to the beans I'm using. I write down settings for beans and I looked back at these ones and found I didn't like them the first time round either .
> 
> So that ascaso machine, it seems to be a similar thing to the machines we have. I've never seen that model before. I think it was the Dream I nearly bought before getting the DTP.


It's an interesting machine but not sure if it's dual thermoblock or boiler and thermoblock for steam. Seems pricey though at £1200 plus in the UK and still well over £1000 in euro. Full sized portafilter though and what ever the brew heater it may be mounted directly on it. Also timed shots and pre infusion that can be set in some way. The youtube crew review on it is interesting - they mention the over temperature aspect that must happen with PID control 'cause it can't take heat away. it'll happen on small boilers too. They do seem to produce thermoblock pro machines.

The DB video is a good example of how the pressure gauge needs to behave. LOL one person on here followed my advice about forgetting the BE manual and going for higher pressures and lo they obtained better drinks as it went up. If the BE is circa 7 bar it explains a problem I have - get some pre infusion pressure and the machine is near choking out, it doesn't take much to cause that to happen - what could really be happening is that the OPV is limiting the pressure. If that's the case ???????????? Going on the DB video I reckon it needs to be set to about 11bar to give a bit of leeway. It's the coffee that should limit the pressure not the machine.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> It's an interesting machine but not sure if it's dual thermoblock or boiler and thermoblock for steam. Seems pricey though at £1200 plus in the UK and still well over £1000 in euro. Full sized portafilter though and what ever the brew heater it may be mounted directly on it. Also timed shots and pre infusion that can be set in some way. The youtube crew review on it is interesting - they mention the over temperature aspect that must happen with PID control 'cause it can't take heat away. it'll happen on small boilers too. They do seem to produce thermoblock pro machines.
> 
> The DB video is a good example of how the pressure gauge needs to behave. LOL one person on here followed my advice about forgetting the BE manual and going for higher pressures and lo they obtained better drinks as it went up. If the BE is circa 7 bar it explains a problem I have - get some pre infusion pressure and the machine is near choking out, it doesn't take much to cause that to happen - what could really be happening is that the OPV is limiting the pressure. If that's the case ???????????? Going on the DB video I reckon it needs to be set to about 11bar to give a bit of leeway. It's the coffee that should limit the pressure not the machine.
> 
> John
> 
> -


It could be the case indeed. Topping out at 7 bar.

One thing I noticed though when adjusting is that I don't have much thread left before it's fully adjusted. I suppose a get around would be a spring spacer to give more tension.

Could you get access to a gauge to screw into your pf? I'm trying to find out what the threads are on it so an adapter can be made for other owners. I have some spouts in my work bag ready to go find out on Monday.

Definitely would be interesting to see what you're thoughts would be if you got in and tweaked yours.


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> It's an interesting machine but not sure if it's dual thermoblock or boiler and thermoblock for steam. Seems pricey though at £1200 plus in the UK and still well over £1000 in euro. Full sized portafilter though and what ever the brew heater it may be mounted directly on it. Also timed shots and pre infusion that can be set in some way. The youtube crew review on it is interesting - they mention the over temperature aspect that must happen with PID control 'cause it can't take heat away. it'll happen on small boilers too. They do seem to produce thermoblock pro machines.
> 
> The DB video is a good example of how the pressure gauge needs to behave. LOL one person on here followed my advice about forgetting the BE manual and going for higher pressures and lo they obtained better drinks as it went up. If the BE is circa 7 bar it explains a problem I have - get some pre infusion pressure and the machine is near choking out, it doesn't take much to cause that to happen - what could really be happening is that the OPV is limiting the pressure. If that's the case ???????????? Going on the DB video I reckon it needs to be set to about 11bar to give a bit of leeway. It's the coffee that should limit the pressure not the machine.
> 
> John
> 
> -


It could be the case indeed. Topping out at 7 bar.

One thing I noticed though when adjusting is that I don't have much thread left before it's fully adjusted. I suppose a get around would be a spring spacer to give more tension.

Could you get access to a gauge to screw into your pf? I'm trying to find out what the threads are on it so an adapter can be made for other owners. I have some spouts in my work bag ready to go find out on Monday.

Definitely would be interesting to see what you're thoughts would be if you got in and tweaked yours.


----------



## ajohn

The thread should be 3/8 bsp but it seems a bit undersized. I'll see if I can get at my thread gauges later, could be tomorrow and see if it's 19tpi.







How Italy came to use BSP though pass.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

Are you guys going to be Tee'ing the pressure gauges aswell? With a needle valve or something to simulate flow?


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> The thread should be 3/8 bsp but it seems a bit undersized. I'll see if I can get at my thread gauges later, could be tomorrow and see if it's 19tpi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How Italy came to use BSP though pass.
> 
> John
> 
> -


It looks quite fine so wasn't sure if it would be a metric fine. I have some bsp taps in the van I can try.


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Are you guys going to be Tee'ing the pressure gauges aswell? With a needle valve or something to simulate flow?


I think you can just bung a gauge on. Then it will build pressure until the OPV opens and allows to to vent that way.


----------



## Gaz|

Yes definitely, I was just wondering if you were trying to find out your actual flow rate pressure? As this would be lower than a closed system pressure check, probably close +- 0.5 bar.. Just would be interesting to see the difference..

would this his then not show pre-infusion and flow rate pressures?


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Yes definitely, I was just wondering if you were trying to find out your actual flow rate pressure? As this would be lower than a closed system pressure check, probably close +- 0.5 bar.. Just would be interesting to see the difference..
> 
> would this his then not show pre-infusion and flow rate pressures?


Ah ok I see. I think the flow rate will always vary depending on how fine you grind/how hard you tamp.

I'm almost through a bottle of red so not likely to start making sense soon


----------



## ajohn

They seem to have chosen a wonderful thread. There is a metric LL series 16mm o/d by 1mm pitch. I make the diameter on the portafilter 15.6mm with a 1mm pitch. It's intended for 12mm pipe but the normal metric pipe size that would use a 16mm o/d thread has a pitch of 1.5mm for either 10mm or 8mm o/d pipe. I assume LL stands for light light - in other words low pressure. I'd suspect it might be hard to get an adapter to go to BSP etc. I don't have any clear idea of where various metric pipe threads are used. BSP and NPT are much simpler.

Pressure is pressure. If blocking the outlet it should show the pressure the opv valve lets through. When brewing it will show what ever the pressure is needed to cause water to flow through the grounds. If what that needs is greater than the opv setting it will show that. Higher flow rates through the valve would need a larger opening so assuming it's just a disk with a spring the pressure needed would increase with flow rate - I would have thought nothing like 1/2 bar though.

I ground up some Bolivian beans tonight. They showed pre infusion pressure and the max was within the espresso range shown on the BE's dial. My latest monsooned malabar roast needs a much higher max pressure though and I suspect that the opv is limiting it. Have to find some way to check. I've used 2/3 of 500g of it without any problems but it seems to have got a lot oilier some how and is even sticking to the tamper at times.







I asked for a roast with the minimum oil burnt off. It seems to be oozing out now and that is causing pressure problems. Despite going a lot coarser the peak pressure is still way too high according to the gauge. It's making me wonder if the BE grinder is bust as I was set up so that the peak was just in the espresso range.

Not sure what could be done to raise the pressure it opens at if needed and the adjustment screw wont do it. It's probably just a spring against some sort of disk so a stronger spring or a spacer may be suitable. Springs shouldn't change too much in length when compressed so that may complicate things. It all depends on what's in the valve really if plenty of length left when it is compressed a bit of a spacer shouldn't hurt. I have a vague recollection of some sort of rule based on the diameter of the wire used and the spacing when compressed. Can't remember any details but there may be something about on the web. It was probably an add hoc rule.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

So the next challenge is to find out the type of thread used on the pf, hopefully then you can get an adapter together and test what the valve is set to. I'll help where I can. My local hydraulic suppliers have rakes of fittings on the shelves and I'm usually left to just grab what I need, so hopefully they have something to fit in stock.


----------



## 9719

I haven't liked any shot of espresso recently but I think it's down to the beans I'm using. I write down settings for beans and I looked back at these ones and found I didn't like them the first time round either .

Thanks for that Joey, has made my day and it ain't 7-30am yet, magical, just stick with the cherry cherry in future and all will be at peace in espresso land


----------



## joey24dirt

mines_abeer said:


> I haven't liked any shot of espresso recently but I think it's down to the beans I'm using. I write down settings for beans and I looked back at these ones and found I didn't like them the first time round either .
> 
> Thanks for that Joey, has made my day and it ain't 7-30am yet, magical, just stick with the cherry cherry in future and all will be at peace in espresso land


Haha any time mate


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> So the next challenge is to find out the type of thread used on the pf, hopefully then you can get an adapter together and test what the valve is set to. I'll help where I can. My local hydraulic suppliers have rakes of fittings on the shelves and I'm usually left to just grab what I need, so hopefully they have something to fit in stock.


Probably cross posted but it seems to be an LL metric fitting for 12mm pipe. That has a 1mm pitch thread. The usual metric fittings with the same thread outside diameter use a 1.5mm pitch thread. Those would either be L or S fittings.

I was going to see if I could get a portafilter pressure gauge on monday but that definitely comes with the usual 3/8 bsp fitting - at least I believe it's what's usually used as have seen it mentioned in

relationship to spouts as well.








I think my BE grinder is bust.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

ajohn said:


> Probably cross posted but it seems to be an LL metric fitting for 12mm pipe. That has a 1mm pitch thread. The usual metric fittings with the same thread outside diameter use a 1.5mm pitch thread. Those would either be L or S fittings.
> 
> I was going to see if I could get a portafilter pressure gauge on monday but that definitely comes with the usual 3/8 bsp fitting - at least I believe it's what's usually used as have seen it mentioned in
> 
> relationship to spouts as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think my BE grinder is bust.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Sounds interesting.. I was going to take my PF into work on Monday and drill it out for a naked PF.. but if needed I could always turn an adapter to suit the internal thread with a 3/8th BSP internal thread and get it in the post to one of you to carry on your tests. Just let me know it's no bother.


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> Probably cross posted but it seems to be an LL metric fitting for 12mm pipe. That has a 1mm pitch thread. The usual metric fittings with the same thread outside diameter use a 1.5mm pitch thread. Those would either be L or S fittings.
> 
> I was going to see if I could get a portafilter pressure gauge on monday but that definitely comes with the usual 3/8 bsp fitting - at least I believe it's what's usually used as have seen it mentioned in
> 
> relationship to spouts as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think my BE grinder is bust.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I'm liking for the info, not that your grinder is bust. What's the plan? Fix or replace?


----------



## ICharger

I'll be picking up my Dtp today. Feeling very excited as this will be my first ever machine


----------



## joey24dirt

ICharger said:


> I'll be picking up my Dtp today. Feeling very excited as this will be my first ever machine


Excellent news. If you need anything just ask. Loads of people willing to help


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> I'm liking for the info, not that your grinder is bust. What's the plan? Fix or replace?


Fix as explained in the post and *NEVER *clean it like that again.







That wont go down well with some people but same beans no problems, clean, 1/2hr later same beans and coarser setting problems. It's even clumping at the moment. It's never done that before. Out of interest the centre burr could be cleaned with just a vac. Probably 'cause the finish is so good. They make the burrs in another grinder I have but can't currently use look like a load of tat.

I have a massive fittings catalogue given to me when I sorted out some fittings for a compressor. I could find 12 L fittings but no 12 LL. The 12 L is much bigger and uses a 1.5mm pitch. They could have used the thread for 10 L fitting. That's 16mm o/d but with a 1.5mm pitch. I'd guess that maybe some one thought that's coarser than BSP at the same sort of size so used 12L. Annoying. I'd like to stick a portafilter pressure gauge on it and changing the one in the BE isn't just a case of taking the lid off the machine. The potafilter gauges can be bought for about £17 with free postage on amazon but for 3/8 bsp.

Oh - if it doesn't fix it itself - send it back for another.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Got this lined up for next year


----------



## ajohn

LOL - what will happen when you upgrade to a BE ? Or what ever.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

Just checked my PF and can confirm that mine is M16x 1.. I'm going to see if I can have a look at an adapter today maybe.


----------



## mctrials23

Joey is DTP for life!


----------



## ajohn

Gaz| said:


> Just checked my PF and can confirm that mine is M16x 1.. I'm going to see if I can have a look at an adapter today maybe.


You'll have no problem finding an M16x1 tap to make your own but an off the shelf adapter to get to BSP is likely to be difficult. It's a problem that crops up elsewhere with threads - some managed with BSP and NTP plus tapered versions. Metric for some reason introduced more. Simple nut and bolt fixings were as bad but ISO have rationalised many of the thread pitches that were used away as there is no need for them.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

So I was right with metric fine?  or is that something else haha.


----------



## PPapa

ajohn said:


> LOL - what will happen when you upgrade to a BE ? Or what ever.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I wouldn't consider BE to be much of an upgrade from DTP.

I'm sure his next plates are gonna be SL4Y3R.


----------



## joey24dirt

So I was right with metric fine?  or is that something else haha.


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> So I was right with metric fine?  or is that something else haha.


LOL I suspect you'll find that M16 fine is 1.5mm pitch. More than suspect really. The thread on the portafilter appears to be a metric 12 L pipe thread. 12mm refers to the pipe as per 3/8 bsp etc. The L probably relates to the thickness of the pipe wall - not enough wall thickness for a deeper thread so the more usual 1.5mm pitch can't be used. Or maybe Sage etc just decided to use 16x1, can't see why though. There are plenty of 16x1 taps on ebay, cheap too for a tap that large. As to why they are there pass.







They wouldn't be cheap if ownership was desirable.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

ajohn said:


> LOL I suspect you'll find that M16 fine is 1.5mm pitch. More than suspect really. The thread on the portafilter appears to be a metric 12 L pipe thread. 12mm refers to the pipe as per 3/8 bsp etc. The L probably relates to the thickness of the pipe wall - not enough wall thickness for a deeper thread so the more usual 1.5mm pitch can't be used. Or maybe Sage etc just decided to use 16x1, can't see why though. There are plenty of 16x1 taps on ebay, cheap too for a tap that large. As to why they are there pass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They wouldn't be cheap if ownership was desirable.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I have got some hex bar.. drilled a through coolant hole.. tapped 1 end M16 x 1 and the other side drilled and tapped 3/8 BSP for the gauge..

Yes with size company M16 x 1 comes up a lot Joey


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> I have got some hex bar.. drilled a through coolant hole.. tapped 1 end M16 x 1 and the other side drilled and tapped 3/8 BSP for the gauge..
> 
> Yes with size company M16 x 1 comes up a lot Joey


Have you got a gauge to try? I want to see if you guys get different results at the pf compared to me being slightly further down the line


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> Have you got a gauge to try? I want to see if you guys get different results at the pf compared to me being slightly further down the line


Haha no that's the only thing I'm missing lol.. I could however try this on my PF tonight and if it fits I can chuck it in the mail to one of you to test whilst I order a gauge if you want


----------



## Gaz|

Here are the pics of the adapter.. the only thing now is height lol.. I guessed thread depth of the pressure gauge.. I have included a picture of the sage milk jug under the adapter to see if there's roughly enough room under for the gauge (remember minus the thread as that would be internal)


----------



## ajohn

If my workshop was up and running I might make a rather short adapter to take one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portafilter-Pressure-Espresso-Machines-ESPRESS/dp/B00ONTGKNA/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1513618888&sr=1-4&keywords=pressure+gauge

I'd hope that has the sort of gauge that doesn't mind getting wet inside. Some gauges are intended for compressed air, many are ok with water. Gauges usually have a 1/4 or 1/8 bsp thread sticking out. The small 40mm ones are usually 1/8 bsp. PTFE tape could be used to get them pointing the right way. The 1/8 bsp on them needs something like a 5/8" fully tapped depth.







There are also some metric ones around - pass on sizes.

The cheapest and shortest option would be an adapter to take a gauge directly so if I could that's what I'd do. I may not have a 1/8 bsp tap though. A major supplier would sell a 40mm 15 bar gauges for about £10. Fleabay probably cheaper. The portafilter end doesn't need much depth at all but would probably need a nice shiny small 45 degree entry to allow the O ring on them to work.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Haha no that's the only thing I'm missing lol.. I could however try this on my PF tonight and if it fits I can chuck it in the mail to one of you to test whilst I order a gauge if you want


That's very kind of you. I don't have a spouted pf at the moment, I keep modding them and selling them on haha.

Can you get a gauge? If you can't I'll see if I can grab one from work


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Here are the pics of the adapter.. the only thing now is height lol.. I guessed thread depth of the pressure gauge.. I have included a picture of the sage milk jug under the adapter to see if there's roughly enough room under for the gauge (remember minus the thread as that would be internal)
> View attachment 30769
> View attachment 30770
> View attachment 30771
> View attachment 30772


It should be ok. You can get a 50mm glycerine filled gauge to go with that no bother


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> If my workshop was up and running I might make a rather short adapter to take one of these
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portafilter-Pressure-Espresso-Machines-ESPRESS/dp/B00ONTGKNA/ref=sr_1_4?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1513618888&sr=1-4&keywords=pressure+gauge
> 
> I'd hope that has the sort of gauge that doesn't mind getting wet inside. Some gauges are intended for compressed air, many are ok with water. Gauges usually have a 1/4 or 1/8 bsp thread sticking out. The small 40mm ones are usually 1/8 bsp. PTFE tape could be used to get them pointing the right way. The 1/8 bsp on them needs something like a 5/8" fully tapped depth.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are also some metric ones around - pass on sizes.
> 
> The cheapest and shortest option would be an adapter to take a gauge directly so if I could that's what I'd do. I may not have a 1/8 bsp tap though. A major supplier would sell a 40mm 15 bar gauges for about £10. Fleabay probably cheaper. The portafilter end doesn't need much depth at all but would probably need a nice shiny small 45 degree entry to allow the O ring on them to work.
> 
> John
> 
> -


The place I use have loads of gauges in stock, glycerine filled and will cope with water at temperature. 1/4" thread on the 50mm. I found with the smaller 40mm the needle went nuts as it was just a dry gauge.


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> The place I use have loads of gauges in stock, glycerine filled and will cope with water at temperature. 1/4" thread on the 50mm. I found with the smaller 40mm the needle went nuts as it was just a dry gauge.


LOL that could be a good point. The only glycerine ones I could get easily are 63mm and 1/4 bsp. More expensive than the lot from amazon too.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> LOL that could be a good point. The only glycerine ones I could get easily are 63mm and 1/4 bsp. More expensive than the lot from amazon too.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I think I got charged about £30 for mine but I can't remember exactly. I can check their website to see


----------



## Gaz|

If you could link me to any guage with 3/8 BSP fitting to go in my adapter I'll happily purchase one for further investigations! Lol


----------



## ajohn

Gaz| said:


> I you could link me to any with 3/8 BSP fitting I'll happily purchase one for further investigations! Lol


You need 3/8 bsp male sticking out of the adapter to use the usual portafilter pressure gauges.. One idea might be to use a gauge off an espresso machine. Usually rear entry and small with a . 1/8 bsp fitting - I think.

You should be able to find 100mm gauges with a 3/8 bsp thread sticking out and glycerine filled - don't think you will like the price though and probably not enough room on the machine to use them. Price probably not much short of £100.

There is 3/8bsp standard portafilter gauge on ebay, damped etc for around £15. Suspect it will be hard to beat that even if just the gauge is removed and used.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

ajohn said:


> You need 3/8 bsp male sticking out of the adapter to use the usual portafilter pressure gauges.. One idea might be to use a gauge off an espresso machine. Usually rear entry and small with a . 1/8 bsp fitting - I think.
> 
> You should be able to find 100mm gauges with a 3/8 bsp thread sticking out and glycerine filled - don't think you will like the price though and probably not enough room on the machine to use them. Price probably not much short of £100.
> 
> There is 3/8bsp standard portafilter gauge on ebay, damped etc for around £15. Suspect it will be hard to beat that even if just the gauge is removed and used.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Ok, so i could get the 3/8 portafilter gauge and then get a 3/8 male to male adapter and use the hex adapter I made today? Or could just make another adapter tomorrow m16 x 1 internal thread with a 3/8 BSP external thread the other end to fit?

EDIT: this would do? Although it's only up to 10 bar

https://www.bes.co.uk/water-air-pressure-gauge-0-to-10-bar-3-8-bottom-12152?ref=gs&gclid=CjwKCAiA693RBRAwEiwALCc3u3aMDfFn5lLrGDj-OOiaA1lsjyGyElLakG9WcQslmP9ELXdJ4LHNfhoCAdIQAvD_BwE


----------



## joey24dirt

Just make a straight like you have but a female 1/4bsp so the gauge will screw in. Otherwise I think it may end up a bit long

Or.... make a 90deg bend to send it sideways lol


----------



## Gaz|

I can make what Evers easiest, I thought 3/8 was lol.. I can do a 1/4 if that's easier.. What gauge should I buy for it?


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> I can make what Evers easiest, I thought 3/8 was lol.. I can do a 1/4 if that's easier.. What gauge should I buy for it?


I'd get a 0-20bar 50mm bottom entry (so many jokes, not enough time) glycerine filled ideally to smooth out the pulsing.

There's a few online places you can grab one but I'd have to find a link for you.


----------



## MildredM

I sometimes wonder what forum I'm on, I really do


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> I'd get a 0-20bar 50mm bottom entry (so many jokes, not enough time) glycerine filled ideally to smooth out the pulsing.
> 
> There's a few online places you can grab one but I'd have to find a link for you.


Cheers buddy.. you find it I'll make it fit lol


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Liking this thread....I don't even have a DTP


----------



## PPapa

I feel like DTP is becoming a new Gaggia Classic.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I feel like DTP is becoming a new Gaggia Classic.


As long as parts start to become more and more available then yeah why not.

It's great that everyone is throwing ideas out there to try also.


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> It's great that everyone is throwing ideas out there to try also.


Remember, my ingenious and secret tube project is not public yet! 

Will post it when I get the parts...


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Remember, my ingenious and secret tube project is not public yet!
> 
> Will post it when I get the parts...


Secrets safe. Get the patents sorted first lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Cheers buddy.. you find it I'll make it fit lol


Morning mate. I had a look at my local spot. They only do glycerine in 63mm. I'll look at my workshops in the next hour and see what's on the shelves.


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> Morning mate. I had a look at my local spot. They only do glycerine in 63mm. I'll look at my workshops in the next hour and see what's on the shelves.


Morning Buddy, that's no problem.. thanks for looking.. I will make a M16 x 1 into a 1/4 BSP adapter today in case I can find a gauge online to fit lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Erm I think this may be a bit big haha

Make a nice 90degree bend. M16 female to 1/4bsp male. That would be ace


----------



## Gaz|

Lol it is a tad lol what's the OD of it? I could make a right angle


----------



## joey24dirt

I think it's 100mm but it's a 1/2bsp on the bottom I think. Way tooo big.

The 63mm from my spot are about £25


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> I think it's 100mm but it's a 1/2bsp on the bottom I think. Way tooo big.
> 
> The 63mm from my spot are about £25


Ok bud, and will the 63mm be Ok? What would I need to make to get it working? I can make it today and send you the money for the gauge and shipping


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Ok bud, and will the 63mm be Ok? What would I need to make to get it working? I can make it today and send you the money for the gauge and shipping


63mm is the one that I have pictured. So it's not overly massive. You would need some PTFE tape but I can send some through. I'll see if they have a random 50mm though.

Are you just wanting to add a gauge to the pf or actually fit one to the machine like I have?


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> 63mm is the one that I have pictured. So it's not overly massive. You would need some PTFE tape but I can send some through. I'll see if they have a random 50mm though.
> 
> Are you just wanting to add a gauge to the pf or actually fit one to the machine like I have?


I don't mind buddy.. PF would be easiest as I can adapt it.. I can make what ever adapter to suit what I can get.. even if I order one online.. just wanna make sure it's the correct type lol


----------



## ajohn

The real machines appear to use a capillary tube to connect up the pressure gauge. I bought some bits to modify my Piccino. Not sure if the tube is for steam or brew though. The BE just uses plastic tube. Low dia but not capillary.

I kept my eye open on ebay for a gauge. A 45mm 15bar one turned up. Rear connection and that's 1/8" bsp. It's the Gaggia high pressure one from this listing

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coffee-Machine-Pressure-Gauge-Manometer-La-Pavoni-Gaggia-Cimbali-Faema-etc/272953522128?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3D9dcbec9dedf14ef8984c9fd00b304260%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D272898853697&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850








Bar become kg for some reason. The scale says bar. The 40mm looks to apply to the glass. It seems to be the same gauge as the ebay portafilter pressure gauge. Can't at the moment but an extension to fit the pf, decent O ring to help seal to the portafilter and a 1/8 bsp hole coming in from the side for the gauge. The O ring should allow the hole to be pointed the right way as long as it doesn't mean compressing it too much. The same thing could be done with a larger bottom fitting gauge. Me thinks trying to use the Sage O ring to seal to the pf wont work out. Too thin. Ptfe tape - not much length of thread there.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> The real machines appear to use a capillary tube to connect up the pressure gauge. I bought some bits to modify my Piccino. Not sure if the tube is for steam or brew though. The BE just uses plastic tube. Low dia but not capillary.
> 
> I kept my eye open on ebay for a gauge. A 45mm 15bar one turned up. Rear connection and that's 1/8" bsp. It's the Gaggia high pressure one from this listing
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Coffee-Machine-Pressure-Gauge-Manometer-La-Pavoni-Gaggia-Cimbali-Faema-etc/272953522128?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D49138%26meid%3D9dcbec9dedf14ef8984c9fd00b304260%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D272898853697&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bar become kg for some reason. The scale says bar. The 40mm looks to apply to the glass. It seems to be the same gauge as the ebay portafilter pressure gauge. Can't at the moment but an extension to fit the pf, decent O ring to help seal to the portafilter and a 1/8 bsp hole coming in from the side for the gauge. The O ring should allow the hole to be pointed the right way as long as it doesn't mean compressing it too much. The same thing could be done with a larger bottom fitting gauge. Me thinks trying to use the Sage O ring to seal to the pf wont work out. Too thin. Ptfe tape - not much length of thread there.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Dowty washer should work.

I did wonder about capillary tube and if it would even the needle out more. Could potentially diy one?


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Dowty washer should work.
> 
> I did wonder about capillary tube and if it would even the needle out more. Could potentially diy one?


I wondered as well but the BE doesn't use one.

Just thought an O ring was more suitable. They make a much better job of sealing than flat rubber washers. The Dowty look like O rings in a metal washer to control the amount the ring is compressed. The sealing pressure on O rings builds up pretty quickly as they are compressed so have a metal washer to restrict it might cause problems - pass. Have to be tried.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

I've used dowtys for a lot of years in hydraulic systems that run at 250-300bar. They are a good option when sometimes an o ring doesn't cut it.

@ajohn On your gauge do you get any flickering of the needle or is it steady? My gauge still has a little bit of a 'wibble' when pulling the shot.


----------



## ashcroc

joey24dirt said:


> Dowty washer should work.
> 
> I did wonder about capillary tube and if it would even the needle out more. Could potentially diy one?


That's exactly what the capillary tube is for. It effectively does the same job as glycerin if using a dry guage.


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> I've used dowtys for a lot of years in hydraulic systems that run at 250-300bar. They are a good option when sometimes an o ring doesn't cut it.
> 
> @ajohn On your gauge do you get any flickering of the needle or is it steady? My gauge still has a little bit of a 'wibble' when pulling the shot.


The one on the BE is steady and builds smoothly during infusion. The tube I have was described as a capillary tube. Soft copper, coiled pig tail style with soldered connectors on each end. I'd say that more a case of easier to adjust to length. The BE uses what looks to be a short length of plastic tube, circa 4mm or so dia with a very noticeable bore.

I think you can expect some wobble when the OPV opens and closes as most things like that tend to have some hysteresis. Maybe The BE uses a restricter of some sort or maybe the gauges is damped some other way. I had wondered about changing it for the 15bar one I have but not at all easy to get at and there is the warrantee problem as well.







No one is going to say you took the lid off to clean the grinder etc but a different gauge is another matter. It's not that easy to get at either.

The grinder assembly inside was interesting. Sturdy, well controlled play in the burrs etc. Better than a certain flat burr model I have.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Not the best art I've ever done, but these two were more a test to see how fast I could make two flat whites.

Pulled two doubles (one after another) and then steamed about 200ml of milk for both drinks.

I think it took me around 8 minutes but I would need to time it properly. I was distracted by both boys who were starting to wake up in their beds (watching on the cameras)

Has anyone else had much experience doing this? I'd like to have another pf ready to go for the next test to speed it up further.


----------



## Gaz|

Looks good.. I always do 2 drinks at a time.. one for me one for the better half..

My routine is kind of; scale out beans for into grinder.. put milk into jug, pour boiling water into 2 cups for warm up (DTP cup warmer nothing to brag about..).. then grind into PF.. pull first shot.. take out PF whilst rinsing out in sink I put an old cup under without PF in it and run a shot to clean SS.. move it away grind into PF (after giving a dry quickly).. whilst grinding I'll whipe the SS then repeat..

Steam milk and keep cups on the tray so steam below keeps them hot.. then split the milk into 2 jugs and pour..

Kinda took a few attempts to get it down.. but now with pre heating cups with boiled water (got an instant dispenser I don't use machine to do it) and cleaning PF whilst rinsing SS through kind no waited time and the drinks are still hot enough to drink.. I also use a thermometer to make sure milk is about 60degrees which helps also.


----------



## MildredM

Two pf's here, prep both then pull shot/steam milk for the first one, once steamed and poured the lever has come to the end, whip the handle out and pop the second one in, steam milk, and while the shot finishes empty first basket. Pour second lot of milk, empty that basket. Sit and have a Rest!

Then be cheeky and hijack the DTP thread


----------



## ajohn

Depends on how long it took to steam milk. I don't but my son has. I'd guess maybe 600ml in a larger jug than Sage provide. Our usual 400ml mugs so I'd say it would have to be over 450ml. I guess under 3mins but would need to do it myself to be sure. The BE uses 1850w though not 1700w but wouldn't have thought 150w would make much difference.

He was trying to brew 2 using the dual spouts - obvious strength problems for me anyway.








Time to refill the portafilter depends on how dry the puck is. Can't swill it .'cause my preheated portafilter would cool down.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

MildredM said:


> Two pf's here, prep both then pull shot/steam milk for the first one, once steamed and poured the lever has come to the end, whip the handle out and pop the second one in, steam milk, and while the shot finishes empty first basket. Pour second lot of milk, empty that basket. Sit and have a Rest!
> 
> Then be cheeky and hijack the DTP thread


You're always welcome


----------



## joey24dirt

Best I could do tonight haha. Messed my dose up so had to faff about. Definitely going to make it my business to get under 8 mins


----------



## MildredM

joey24dirt said:


> Best I could do tonight haha. Messed my dose up so had to faff about. Definitely going to make it my business to get under 8 mins


It's a rum business when men are timing their shots









Have you ordered a second handle etc.


----------



## PPapa

MildredM said:


> It's a rum business when men are timing their shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ordered a second handle etc.


That's the reason he's keeping my portafilter as a hostage! I don't mind, let it become a racing portafilter.


----------



## joey24dirt

MildredM said:


> It's a rum business when men are timing their shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ordered a second handle etc.


Ha I was just interested to see how long it took. It's so I can give accurate times for guests lol.

I haven't ordered one yet, I'll do that in the new year maybe and also buy a skateboard to chop up and make into a handle


----------



## joey24dirt

Finally sage are starting to get some parts on their website. Promising times


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Finally sage are starting to get some parts on their website. Promising times


Haha, you and I are the reason they don't have enough.

I bought two gaskets as well as "they won't have them again soon, better get two".


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Haha, you and I are the reason they don't have enough.
> 
> I bought two gaskets as well as "they won't have them again soon, better get two".


The portafilters are slightly cheaper than when I got the first batch in. Very strange, prices normally go up not down


----------



## PPapa

That's true. The gaskets are surprisingly cheap, though.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> That's true. The gaskets are surprisingly cheap, though.


Yeah good value really. Do you still have that IMS gasket? Did you use it?


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Yeah good value really. Do you still have that IMS gasket? Did you use it?


I have it around, but it doesn't fit. I think it was a non-brand La Spaz gasket, but it doesn't even stay in place - just falls off immediately.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> I have it around, but it doesn't fit. I think it was a non-brand La Spaz gasket, but it doesn't even stay in place - just falls off immediately.


Ah ok so the internal diameter doesn't grip the plastic bit in the sage? I had wondered if that would work with the replacement screen idea.


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Ah ok so the internal diameter doesn't grip the plastic bit in the sage? I had wondered if that would work with the replacement screen idea.


The OD is fairly similar, but the ID is obviously different.

I was about to get the callipers out, but I think it's fairly obvious in the picture!










Saying that, the quality of the Sage gasket is just awesome anyway.


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> The OD is fairly similar, but the ID is obviously different.
> 
> I was about to get the callipers out, but I think it's fairly obvious in the picture!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saying that, the quality of the Sage gasket is just awesome anyway.


Woah big difference! Yeah I'll just work with what the sage comes with then haha


----------



## PPapa

joey24dirt said:


> Woah big difference! Yeah I'll just work with what the sage comes with then haha


The La Spaz one is 64x52x6.3mm.

Sage is 66x48x10mm.

I can send you the La Spaz gasket, but I have no idea where would you use it.


----------



## Gaz|

Woah think I will be ordering new PF and gasket now then if there's any stock left after Joey! Lol

Also do you recommend the IMS SS as an upgrade worth doing Joey? Cheers.

EDIT: just ordered both of them.. also a quick question.. I ordered the 54mm cleaning disc the other day as seemed to have misplaced mine.. and it arrived yesterday and it doesn't seem to have a hole in it? So when I put the tablet in and ran it water gushed out the top of the PF lol.. obviously instantly stopped it.. but was wondering WTF? Lol


----------



## ajohn

I bought a La Spaz sealing ring a couple of weeks ago and due to size difference didn't even try to fit it. Main reason is because the Sage ones go soft over time and the portafilter can be twisted too far so more care needed to get the fill height in the basket correct. I bought 2 new seals from Sage to save on postage costs when I want another. Need to spend over £20 to get free postage.

I've been using the La Spaz 7.5g basket every night with Adeventskalender beans in it. 15 to 16g of beans. Around 16 times now with beans all from different countries in it and a couple of blends. Initially I had some rather wet pucks but coarsening up the grind a bit cured that. So all dry but a bit of a problem. When I get to the knock box the first whack just gets a portion of the centre of the puck out. The 2nd one gets most out but still leaves a troublesome amount behind. I think it's down to the basket being filled a lot higher than it should be - even past the ridge - that will tend to hold the puck in place and does.

The Ebay La Spaz pod basket holds 14g when trimmed with the razor tool. It's ridgeless which helps get it in and out but seems to be a fair bit deeper than the IMS La Spaz pod basket. It's about 21mm rather than 16mm. Maybe the Ebay one is a double pod. For some reason it sits a bit higher than the other La Spaz baskets I have. Not enough to cause a serious problem. I think that the rad on the top of the rim is a bit flatter. I haven't used it yet. It holds way too much for the roast of monsooned I am using at the moment. It might make a good 12-14g as 2g less wont change the fill height that much. My usual 9.3g to fill the Sage single is too low in it.







The 9.3 might be a bit more. Don't know, I've tuned to the look of the puck.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Woah think I will be ordering new PF and gasket now then if there's any stock left after Joey! Lol
> 
> Also do you recommend the IMS SS as an upgrade worth doing Joey? Cheers.
> 
> EDIT: just ordered both of them.. also a quick question.. I ordered the 54mm cleaning disc the other day as seemed to have misplaced mine.. and it arrived yesterday and it doesn't seem to have a hole in it? So when I put the tablet in and ran it water gushed out the top of the PF lol.. obviously instantly stopped it.. but was wondering WTF? Lol


I wonder if the DTP and BE disk are different. The BE has a three way so it can vent through that way. Maybe just pop a little hole in it. So you have a picture?


----------



## ajohn

The rubber disk that came with my BE does have a hole in it. Think the manual mentions will also clean your portafilter and the basket you use - or seen it some where or the other. I've wondered if the tablet blocks the hole initially. Mean to check but some one else did the last one.

I had some Guatemalan beans left over from last night so ground then and loaded them into the pod basket, tamped and razored it off followed by another tamp and polish. Results were interesting. I used 15.9g in the La Spaz 7.5g last night and would describe the taste as vaguely Starbucks but smoother. Better extraction with the pod filter and a much richer taste. Might be a bit too much for some. The shot size was about Forgot to weigh the dose after razoring but it's very likely to be as per the one I weighed. Puck dry and popped out easily and next to none left behind.








70ml? well 14g is supposed to be a double - depends on the beans though








160ml in the drip tray after pulling the shot.

John

-


----------



## mctrials23

Started having a bit of a strange issue with my DTP. The steam pressure seems to have suddenly dropped. Its still chucking out steam but its nowhere near full power. You can tell audibly that its not full power and it doesn't event get the milk spinning in the jug.

After leaving it on for perhaps a minute it seems to increase the pressure to something approaching max but its not right. Its also making a strange sound when I flick it back to the middle position after steaming. It used to make a quite loud tssssst sound like a valve was releasing the steam pressure. Now it makes the same sound but coupled with a watery gargling.

Anyone experienced this or have any ideas what this might be. I clean and descale the machine perhaps once ever 1-2 months and its been fine up until now. Hoping that she isn't on the way out.

OK so I back-flushed it and took the tip off the steam wand and had a look inside there and there was a tiny chip of limescale that might have been causing some of the issues. I won't know until I try to steam some more milk but that might explain why the hot water was coming out like steam and the steam was underpowered. I had poked the steam want tip with the tool they give you but I assume that didn't do anything other than dislodge it and as soon as anything came down the wand it just re-seated the bit of limescale.


----------



## Gaz|

How is it you guys go about descaling? Just a matter of mixing it in with the tank water and running it through plus more fresh water through?


----------



## ajohn

Gaz| said:


> How is it you guys go about descaling? Just a matter of mixing it in with the tank water and running it through plus more fresh water through?


Yes. There should be instructions in the manual that comes with the machine which can be downloaded from Sages web site

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1998/4025/files/BES810UK_UK_IB.pdf?3785180973604001408

Looking at them I'd have thought they meant switch to water not steam and run through etc. Or at least some like that.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Preliminary tests show that........

...IT WORKS!!










Only gone and got myself a pressure profiled DTP (albeit basic)

Thanks @fatboyslim for planting the seed. Just need to decide on location now.

New thread to follow once I've completed the mod. I'll do my best to make it fully reversible


----------



## Gaz|

That's great Joey, can't wait for the read and to be able to give it a go myself Lol!


----------



## 140CC

Have you how cheap these are at the moment.....£105 from Debanhams!!


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> That's great Joey, can't wait for the read and to be able to give it a go myself Lol!


Hopefully it will work out. I've found a location for it but I'll have to drill a 6mm hole in the side of it lol. I'll take one for the team haha


----------



## joey24dirt

140CC said:


> Have you how cheap these are at the moment.....£105 from Debanhams!!


Whaaatt! That's crazy. I might buy a spare!


----------



## roaringboy

joey24dirt said:


> Whaaatt! That's crazy. I might buy a spare!


They're out of stock or I would have bought one for work!!!


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> They're out of stock or I would have bought one for work!!!


I can't even find them on the site so I'm guessing they have took them off now lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Something like this for the adjuster shouldn't be too offensive


----------



## Gaz|

joey24dirt said:


> Something like this for the adjuster shouldn't be too offensive


Looks good, maybe a SS brushed finish to match the machine.. and I take it that is where you can adjust pressure? You gotta be careful Joey, I'd get some patents on it when your done otherwise you'll see the next line of Sage machine with this On! Lol


----------



## joey24dirt

Gaz| said:


> Looks good, maybe a SS brushed finish to match the machine.. and I take it that is where you can adjust pressure? You gotta be careful Joey, I'd get some patents on it when your done otherwise you'll see the next line of Sage machine with this On! Lol


Ah yes good shout. I'll have to see if I can get a knob to match.m the machine.

Yeah this will let me adjust the pressure hopefully. Not really sure how it's going to work in the long run but we will see


----------



## fatboyslim

@joey24dirt excellent work. Show us a video of how to works.

Something like adjust knob to lowest voltage, then turn the front switch to the left then full control via side knob?


----------



## joey24dirt

fatboyslim said:


> @joey24dirt excellent work. Show us a video of how to works.
> 
> Something like adjust knob to lowest voltage, then turn the front switch to the left then full control via side knob?


Yeah something like that. I didn't know whether to let it go through its pre-infusion stage, then ramp up as normal, and then lower it towards the end like you suggested before. Suppose the world is my lobster now 

Once it's set up I can just have a play around and see how it does 

Thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## PPapa

Looking cool! Unfortunately, I have no idea what profiles people are using.

@Mrboots2u?


----------



## Mrboots2u

PPapa said:


> Looking cool! Unfortunately, I have no idea what profiles people are using.
> 
> @Mrboots2u?


When i made espresso at home , i cycled through endless profiles and came to the conclusion that only two really had any kind of significant impact .

Flat pressure of your choice 4-6 bars .

Long slow pre infusion but this requires a slow water debit ( i am not sure you can achieve this on a sage tbh , i lowered pump values on the Vesuvius and installed a smaller gigliceur ) you also and a grinder capable of going fine really consistently . And again you need a machine that can keep the temp stable over long extractions .

This is with the proviso that you are using coffee that will require this effort to extract ( lighter roasted , specialty where you are constantly striving to balance the acidity and the sweetness )

Ultimately i think its icing on the cake , if you don't have a shit hot grinder , great coffee, understand how to dial in , then it's not going to be a magic bullett.


----------



## joey24dirt

Mrboots2u said:


> When i made espresso at home , i cycled through endless profiles and came to the conclusion that only two really had any kind of significant impact .
> 
> Flat pressure of your choice 4-6 bars .
> 
> Long slow pre infusion but this requires a slow water debit ( i am not sure you can achieve this on a sage tbh , i lowered pump values on the Vesuvius and installed a smaller gigliceur ) you also and a grinder capable of going fine really consistently . And again you need a machine that can keep the temp stable over long extractions .
> 
> This is with the proviso that you are using coffee that will require this effort to extract ( lighter roasted , specialty where you are constantly striving to balance the acidity and the sweetness )
> 
> Ultimately i think its icing on the cake , if you don't have a shit hot grinder , great coffee, understand how to dial in , then it's not going to be a magic bullett.


Thanks for the info. I'm really not sure what to expect from this mod but if anything it's been fun tinkering.

I tend to sway towards lighter roasts, so hopefully the super jolly will be man enough to cope with that.


----------



## fatboyslim

joey24dirt said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm really not sure what to expect from this mod but if anything it's been fun tinkering.
> 
> I tend to sway towards lighter roasts, so hopefully the super jolly will be man enough to cope with that.


I've not owned a profile machine but given my experience of the DTP I would definitely want to ramp down the pressure towards the end of the shot.


----------



## Mrboots2u

joey24dirt said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm really not sure what to expect from this mod but if anything it's been fun tinkering.
> 
> I tend to sway towards lighter roasts, so hopefully the super jolly will be man enough to cope with that.


Yep lighter roasts is a good starting point . Id start by trying to find a nice flat pressure profile say 6 bars and dialling in via BR and taste til you can see if it's making any difference . Be prepared to be flexile in timings and ratio .


----------



## joey24dirt

Mrboots2u said:


> Yep lighter roasts is a good starting point . Id start by trying to find a nice flat pressure profile say 6 bars and dialling in via BR and taste til you can see if it's making any difference . Be prepared to be flexile in timings and ratio .


Thank you I'll give it a whirl


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Ah yes good shout. I'll have to see if I can get a knob to match.m the machine.
> 
> Yeah this will let me adjust the pressure hopefully. Not really sure how it's going to work in the long run but we will see


Interesting. The machines should profile the pressure as they come - pre infusion. It's easy to see that with a brew gauge fitted. One thing I didn't notice until I started using a pressurised basket to preheat the portafilter is that these show the effect rather well especially when a double shot is run through one when it's empty. Not sure about the DTP as no timed shots. It's also pretty obvious when a single shot is run through one. The DTP does pre infuse. The numbers can be changed on the DB. Ours are fixed.








Getting a bean to produce the same result as one tiny hole in the pressurised basket is proving rather elusive though. I need to time the pre infusion period to see if it extends as the shot time is increased. I think it does but .............. might be imagination or wishful thinking.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

Yes I think our machines are fixed at 10 seconds pre @ajohn.

I'm hoping to allow it to perform as normal to begin with then adjust maybe half way through to see what it does.

With my gauge I'm still getting some flicker so I need to find/make a pressure snubber so I can get accurate reading.

I may get it finished tonight just as santa is turning up


----------



## ajohn

I've bought the ebay portafilter gauge. It's tiny and made as I suggested . Closed off "tube" 3/8 bsp hole in one end and 1/8 bsp from the side. Metal mesh inside to prevent grinds getting into the guage and a "rubber bung" in the 3/8 bsp to create a seal.

I might risk life and limb making a small adapter for it shortly if I can get at what I need.







A 3/8 bsp die may prove too difficult to get at. One end of the lathe - maybe. I suspect I may find that the ticks on the BE gauge are bar so don't get anywhere near 10. I manage anyway though.

John

-


----------



## Gaz|

ajohn said:


> I've bought the ebay portafilter gauge. It's tiny and made as I suggested . Closed off "tube" 3/8 bsp hole in one end and 1/8 bsp from the side. Metal mesh inside to prevent grinds getting into the guage and a "rubber bung" in the 3/8 bsp to create a seal.
> 
> I might risk life and limb making a small adapter for it shortly if I can get at what I need.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A 3/8 bsp die may prove too difficult to get at. One end of the lathe - maybe. I suspect I may find that the ticks on the BE gauge are bar so don't get anywhere near 10. I manage anyway though.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Sound cool John! If you need anything I can get my hands on/make for you at work by all means let me know. I'm more than willing to help the cause!

Also Merry Christmas to All!


----------



## joey24dirt

Well it's done!



















Had a few bevies when the family went to bed and got the drill out 

I'll do a full write up later on tonight but after a few shots it definitely has made an impact.


----------



## PPapa

What's that mat at the top? Looks like a perfect fit! Though I'd be surprised you didn't cut it


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> What's that mat at the top? Looks like a perfect fit! Though I'd be surprised you didn't cut it


Just a cheap one from amazon I think it was. Perfect fit


----------



## roaringboy

Thanks @joey24dirt for machining down my old 58.4mm torr to 53.5mm to fit the DTP baskets! Cracking job and works a treat. So much better than that piece of crap they provide with the machine. I've had the torr for so long now that I'd forgot just how good it was as I'd just grown accustomed to it. God I've missed it for the last couple of weeks.


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> Thanks @joey24dirt for machining down my old 58.4mm torr to 53.5mm to fit the DTP baskets! Cracking job and works a treat. So much better than that piece of crap they provide with the machine. I've had the torr for so long now that I'd forgot just how good it was as I'd just grown accustomed to it. God I've missed it for the last couple of weeks.


Looks spot on that


----------



## mctrials23

Still having issues with the steam wand. Its not at full power and it seems to fluctuate in power when in use. I've taken the case off the machine but getting at the pipes properly will take a bit more work. Is it worth pulling all the pipes off to see if there is an obvious problem? Any ideas what else it might be?


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Still having issues with the steam wand. Its not at full power and it seems to fluctuate in power when in use.


Can you make a video from when you first turn the dial? Inside the machine there is an online filter. I only notice this last week. Could be possible that it's blocked up slightly.


----------



## Stom

New DTP owner here! Moving from Nespresso/drip filter to the new machine has been a big step up. No decent grinder yet as IÂ'm making do with my old blade grinder until I settle on what I want. This thread has been a great resource! The picture is my 4th attempt at a latte.


----------



## joey24dirt

Stom said:


> View attachment 30953
> New DTP owner here! Moving from Nespresso/drip filter to the new machine has been a big step up. No decent grinder yet as IÂ'm making do with my old blade grinder until I settle on what I want. This thread has been a great resource! The picture is my 4th attempt at a latte.


Hello and welcome  there are a few good options for grinders to match a DTP. When you're ready for one, maybe start a thread and we can all advise from there


----------



## Stom

joey24dirt said:


> Hello and welcome  there are a few good options for grinders to match a DTP. When you're ready for one, maybe start a thread and we can all advise from there


Thanks, I'll do that now! Can you tell me how you have been modding the portafilters, i.e have you been using a lathe or can they be cut out by other means?


----------



## joey24dirt

Stom said:



> Thanks, I'll do that now! Can you tell me how you have been modding the portafilters, i.e have you been using a lathe or can they be cut out by other means?


Very first one was done on a lathe but it was a disaster. The guy who did it didn't have a clue and it's awkward to chuck due to the handle. After that I just used a hole cutter. 52mm seems to be best.


----------



## Stom

joey24dirt said:


> Very first one was done on a lathe but it was a disaster. The guy who did it didn't have a clue and it's awkward to chuck due to the handle. After that I just used a hole cutter. 52mm seems to be best.


Given that it's stainless you must have a pretty high quality cutter, I've used Starrett cutters before when I made my brewery from stainless steel vessels. I found the cheap cutters just workhardened the steel and then you are left with a mess that you can't cut by normal methods....


----------



## joey24dirt

Stom said:


> Given that it's stainless you must have a pretty high quality cutter, I've used Starrett cutters before when I made my brewery from stainless steel vessels. I found the cheap cutters just workhardened the steel and then you are left with a mess that you can't cut by normal methods....


Nothing flash really but ran at about 80rpm, slow and steady lol. Obviously in a pedestal drill so it's all locked down.


----------



## JoshW

Just purchased a DTP used for £150. Seemed a pretty good price when stacked against Gaggia Classic's, hopefully it remains a reliable machine to learn on. Just need to get a decent grinder now!


----------



## joey24dirt

JoshW said:


> Just purchased a DTP used for £150. Seemed a pretty good price when stacked against Gaggia Classic's, hopefully it remains a reliable machine to learn on. Just need to get a decent grinder now!


Great buy at that price. What sort of age is it? Do you have a grinder in mind?


----------



## JoshW

joey24dirt said:


> Great buy at that price. What sort of age is it? Do you have a grinder in mind?


Not too sure on age, it's barely been used - I will try and find out how old it is.

I've read the Mazzer Super Jolly is a solid entry for beginners so I'm currently keeping an eye out, but I am open to suggestions - they seem quite an old machine so maybe there is a newer grinder on the block which can produce as good results? The Pharos seems to be very highly rated in grind quality but I can't seem to find any being sold in the UK, seem to be much more scarce on European territory.

I do have one question that I could really use some help on - I've read the tamper with the Sage DTP is garbage - what size is recommended for these, and is there a recommended brand of tamper? Are there any other upgrades I should invest in also for the DTP?

Many Thanks,

Josh


----------



## joey24dirt

JoshW said:


> Not too sure on age, it's barely been used - I will try and find out how old it is.
> 
> I've read the Mazzer Super Jolly is a solid entry for beginners so I'm currently keeping an eye out, but I am open to suggestions - they seem quite an old machine so maybe there is a newer grinder on the block which can produce as good results? The Pharos seems to be very highly rated in grind quality but I can't seem to find any being sold in the UK, seem to be much more scarce on European territory.
> 
> I do have one question that I could really use some help on - I've read the tamper with the Sage DTP is garbage - what size is recommended for these, and is there a recommended brand of tamper? Are there any other upgrades I should invest in also for the DTP?
> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Josh


You could look at a mignon to go with or there's a new grinder due out by niche I think, that looks a good piece of kit. The mazzers are bomb proof though. Very basic and easily repaired if you're into that sort of thing.

The DTP tamper is like marmite. Some like it and some don't. I upgraded to a 53mm motta, but then started to make my own. I made a naked portafilter and then upgraded to some of the kit available for a la Spaziale as they are closely matched. With a bit of fettling with pliers they can be made to fit.

It depends how far into it you would want to go.

Do you have a grinder at the moment?


----------



## JoshW

joey24dirt said:


> You could look at a mignon to go with or there's a new grinder due out by niche I think, that looks a good piece of kit. The mazzers are bomb proof though. Very basic and easily repaired if you're into that sort of thing.
> 
> The DTP tamper is like marmite. Some like it and some don't. I upgraded to a 53mm motta, but then started to make my own. I made a naked portafilter and then upgraded to some of the kit available for a la Spaziale as they are closely matched. With a bit of fettling with pliers they can be made to fit.
> 
> It depends how far into it you would want to go.
> 
> Do you have a grinder at the moment?


Ah I hadn't heard of the Mignon - I shall do some reading on these. I've been reading on the Niche grinder, certainly looks very interesting for those who have backed and will receive in July. Currently I have no grinder - I'm coming from a bean to cup Delonghi Magnifica...very interested to be getting into proper coffee - I was pleasantly suprised at the difference when I visited Italy. Good fun reading and learning on certain things that I had no idea about before...supermarket coffee beans being one!

I shall endeavor to upgrade the tamper, along with purchasing a decent grinder...the eBay market for Mazzer grinders appears to be a little slow at the moment.


----------



## joey24dirt

JoshW said:


> Ah I hadn't heard of the Mignon - I shall do some reading on these. I've been reading on the Niche grinder, certainly looks very interesting for those who have backed and will receive in July. Currently I have no grinder - I'm coming from a bean to cup Delonghi Magnifica...very interested to be getting into proper coffee - I was pleasantly suprised at the difference when I visited Italy. Good fun reading and learning on certain things that I had no idea about before...supermarket coffee beans being one!
> 
> I shall endeavor to upgrade the tamper, along with purchasing a decent grinder...the eBay market for Mazzer grinders appears to be a little slow at the moment.


To be honest the sage grinder does a good job. That's what I had before the mazzer and still did have up until recently. I used it with a classic at work.


----------



## ajohn

I like Marmite and the sage tamper. I have another for my E61 machine with a huge knob on it and still tend to hold it in the same way when I use it. It's easy to check that the Sage tamper is level with the basket - I had a problem with that initially and still check. Can't with the other one which is pretty conventional and has the usual thick disk at the bottom. If I do something stupid with the dose size of grinds the Sage tamper tends to show that up rather well via touch - they have sort of built the razor tool into it as well. The E61 one is calibrated - spring built into the knob. It's even adjustable. £20 of amazon but the price of 53mm versions seems to rocket. This could be an advantage but I manage now.

Some one on here commented that the Mignon clumps. I mostly use the Sage grinder in a Barista Express. I've run well over 2kg of oily beans through it. No clumps and it always produced a nice mound of grinds piled so high that some fall off. Then well over 1kg of others without any problems at all. Then I stripped it completely and cleaned it very thoroughly. All hell broke loose even though I was still using the same batch of beans. I'm pretty sure that this was down to cleaning out the grinds chamber under the burrs. Looks like they need to grind some beans before they really settle down. I suspect that's best done at a coarser espresso setting.

My other grinder is the Smart Grinder Pro. Bought 'cause the price was right - less than their other one. Looks to be much the same. I mostly use it by weighing beans in and grinding the whole dose that way. It can do some things the others can't. If you manually grind the time is recorded so it's possible to grind onto scales manually note the time and program that into it. It will save several settings like that. Their other grinder is much like the one on the BE - a simple knob. I manage but it can take a few goes to get the output where I want it to be.

I feel that these grinders don't really deserve the bad press they get. They aren't unlike commercial ones designed to grind mega kg of beans but it'll take some time for a home user to drink that much coffee. To retain value commercial ones are best bought used otherwise there is a pretty big hit when sold. I find a grinder with a timer on it helps but it does need tweaking now and again to maintain a dose. Some people weigh the beans in to control the dose. I don't know but suspect that conical burrs are best for that. Personally I would avoid a commercial grinder with a doser on it like the plague. Some use them and some try to convert them.

John

-


----------



## Aharries

Joey - have you posted instructions for the led lights you put in somewhere? Also do you think it would be possible to put a smart switch in like this one

https://m.lightinthebox.com/sonoff-basic_p6293483.html?currency=GBP&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&sku=224_35243&country_code=uk&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&adword_mt=&adword_ct=229085941643&adword_kw=&adword_pos=1o1&adword_pl=&adword_net=g&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=3516490533_855201102_48195268055_pla-373455019376&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsqLSBRCmARIsAL4Pa9Q_XsPFEMW6hhvQB_DwwD_0TI66Omy2tsZy3hBzjvLgZsDfAo1YqlsaAhzREALw_wcB

So I could turn it on remotely... ask Alexa before i get in the shower in the morning to start it hearing up.

Really loving the pressure gauge and control mods.

Cheers


----------



## joey24dirt

Aharries said:


> Joey - have you posted instructions for the led lights you put in somewhere? Also do you think it would be possible to put a smart switch in like this one
> 
> https://m.lightinthebox.com/sonoff-basic_p6293483.html?currency=GBP&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&sku=224_35243&country_code=uk&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&adword_mt=&adword_ct=229085941643&adword_kw=&adword_pos=1o1&adword_pl=&adword_net=g&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=3516490533_855201102_48195268055_pla-373455019376&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsqLSBRCmARIsAL4Pa9Q_XsPFEMW6hhvQB_DwwD_0TI66Omy2tsZy3hBzjvLgZsDfAo1YqlsaAhzREALw_wcB
> 
> So I could turn it on remotely... ask Alexa before i get in the shower in the morning to start it hearing up.
> 
> Really loving the pressure gauge and control mods.
> 
> Cheers


I haven't yet but I'm planning on doing some more so I'll document as I go. I have some colour change leds but don't know if I want a disco every time I brew haha.

Smart switches might not work because you have to press the button to turn it on. Could maybe change that to a toggle type switch but I'd have to have a look at how it's set up. Also it's on a ten minute timer I think so will turn off after then. It only takes a couple of minutes to heat up anyway.

Have you just got one?


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> Can you make a video from when you first turn the dial? Inside the machine there is an online filter. I only notice this last week. Could be possible that it's blocked up slightly.







Not the best video but hope it helps.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Not the best video but hope it helps.


It looks fairly similar to mine to be honest lol. Did it seem better before and has performance gradually dropped?

When the kids are in bed I'll just run mine next to this video and see how it is compared to it.


----------



## kdr152

Finally finished reading 99% of posts! Now have ideas waiting as soon as I - A. Take delivery and B. Play with the DTP. Will then be looking at easy mods. Great thread!

Drip tray idea sounds interesting. Hole in base with some pipework and a tap or direct into a vessel/ container would be easiest if tray fills quickly? am sure thats being/ been done!

Like the comments about mods and the DTP being a new classic. Sage staff should be reading and discussing with forum members to gauge interest! If its a machine that would benefit from some retro-mods, its a marketing dream!









Happy New Year to one and all! Will be chasing Lakeland Tuesday for a confirmed delivery date! Can then ask questions that need answers!!


----------



## Aharries

Happy New year to you all.

I've put some colour changing strip lights above my machine and I only use the white setting. Nice to have the option of a coffee disco.

No I haven't bought one yet. I know I don't need to switch it on before I get downstairs but I also don't need my Christmas tree lights to be voice activated. I just want it...

I've been doing some reading and I think it may work. Be interested to know what you think.


----------



## roaringboy

Anyone else find the drip tray the worst designed piece of sh#t in history? Why on earth it is not full length? It needs emptying every couple of days and that stupid tool tray that is taking up the room is pointless and mine is always full of water! Not to mention there is always a puddle of water under the drip tray. Absolute cack.

Happy new year!


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> Anyone else find the drip tray the worst designed piece of sh#t in history? Why on earth it is not full length? It needs emptying every couple of days and that stupid tool tray that is taking up the room is pointless and mine is always full of water! Not to mention there is always a puddle of water under the drip tray. Absolute cack.
> 
> Happy new year!


Haha happy new year to you too.

The drips tray, yeah it's rubbish. You can either design new, plumb in a larger drain container or get into a habit of daily emptying. I had a hard time moving from my delonghi as the tray was huge on that, but it's second nature now


----------



## roaringboy

joey24dirt said:


> Haha happy new year to you too.
> 
> The drips tray, yeah it's rubbish. You can either design new, plumb in a larger drain container or get into a habit of daily emptying. I had a hard time moving from my delonghi as the tray was huge on that, but it's second nature now


It would probably be perfectly fine if it took up the entire cavity - i.e. if there were no tool tray! Who has a 3D printer???


----------



## ajohn

Aharries said:


> Joey - have you posted instructions for the led lights you put in somewhere? Also do you think it would be possible to put a smart switch in like this one
> 
> https://m.lightinthebox.com/sonoff-basic_p6293483.html?currency=GBP&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&sku=224_35243&country_code=uk&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&adword_mt=&adword_ct=229085941643&adword_kw=&adword_pos=1o1&adword_pl=&adword_net=g&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=3516490533_855201102_48195268055_pla-373455019376&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsqLSBRCmARIsAL4Pa9Q_XsPFEMW6hhvQB_DwwD_0TI66Omy2tsZy3hBzjvLgZsDfAo1YqlsaAhzREALw_wcB
> 
> So I could turn it on remotely... ask Alexa before i get in the shower in the morning to start it hearing up.
> 
> Really loving the pressure gauge and control mods.
> 
> Cheers


I assume the heat up time is the same as the BE or very similar. I timed it once and recollect 30 sec from cold. I pulled a shot 1/2hr ago and just timed it from part heated - 15 sec. We just turn it on when we want a drink. If left on it will turn itself off eventually.







You might have to have a pretty quick shower.

What some one might find totally different if they have used a boiler machine is group head and portafilter heat up time. Maybe the best way of putting that is that they don't. Pulling shots does heat these up but I found that from cold there was a very noticeable difference in taste between the first 2 and the 3rd may be even stronger. So we started flushing the machine through an empty basket before we made any number of drinks. It helps a lot.







Then I bought a boiler machine to play with, sort of ebay loan. I'll sell it eventually. That gets the lot very hot. I found that the same can be done on the BE by flushing through an empty pressurised (dual wall) filter basket so if the drink is for me alone that is what I do. Which ever way the output from flushing is used to preheat the mug a bit. Helps keep the shower screen clean and functional as well.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

roaringboy said:


> It would probably be perfectly fine if it took up the entire cavity - i.e. if there were no tool tray! Who has a 3D printer???


I know a guy but don't know if it would cope with something of that size. I was tempted to glue them together with bulk head connections to feed through lol


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> I know a guy but don't know if it would cope with something of that size. I was tempted to glue them together with bulk head connections to feed through lol


I know of a machine where people manage to warp the plastic part of the drip tray - running steam into it. Not sure how 3D printer plastics will cope with that. Personally apart from the empty me feature I feel the whole plastic parts are too complicated and just make it more difficult to clean out. Also since noticing Joey's comments about the OPV it doesn't fill as fast as it did and I expect will fill even more slowly when and if I adjust it. The BE comes with a gauge though so I do have an indication of when that's happening.







Currently I don't know what the actual pressure is though.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> I know of a machine where people manage to warp the plastic part of the drip tray - running steam into it. Not sure how 3D printer plastics will cope with that. Personally apart from the empty me feature I feel the whole plastic parts are too complicated and just make it more difficult to clean out. Also since noticing Joey's comments about the OPV it doesn't fill as fast as it did and I expect will fill even more slowly when and if I adjust it. The BE comes with a gauge though so I do have an indication of when that's happening.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently I don't know what the actual pressure is though.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Did you adjust yours?


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Did you adjust yours?


Not until I know what the pressure is. It's looks like i will be fun to get at too. The BE is bit cramped at the top.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> Not until I know what the pressure is. It's looks like i will be fun to get at too. The BE is bit cramped at the top.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I always take the back off also. Does it come off ok on the BE?


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> I always take the back off also. Does it come off ok on the BE?


I know that the top comes off pretty easily but have no idea what holds the back on - maybe it's the same as the DTP? Don't know how it's done on that either.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> I know that the top comes off pretty easily but have no idea what holds the back on - maybe it's the same as the DTP? Don't know how it's done on that either.
> 
> John
> 
> -


On the DTP when you take off the reservoir there's two screws on the top corners. Then removed both back feet and three screws that go between the feet. Then there's one final sneaky one just near the filler valve that the res sits on. It's under a little cover. That one hasn't been refit as it's a pita!


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> It looks fairly similar to mine to be honest lol. Did it seem better before and has performance gradually dropped?


Seemed to just suddenly go a bit wrong one day. Since then its not been quite right. It takes longer to get the steam going, isn't as powerful and seems to fluctuate in pressure while its on. I'm struggling to get a good micro foam before the milk heats up now. Thats even when I leave the pitcher in the fridge with the milk in it for a while before steaming.

I do wonder if the pump is dying. I'm probably being paranoid now but it doesn't feel like the water is coming through the showerhead as quickly anymore either. Could someone please do a simple test of running water through their grouphead for 30s or so and let me know how much water comes through. I don't know if you would be able to do that Joey as you have just modded the pressure profiling of yours haven't you?

[/QUOTE]


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Seemed to just suddenly go a bit wrong one day. Since then its not been quite right. It takes longer to get the steam going, isn't as powerful and seems to fluctuate in pressure while its on. I'm struggling to get a good micro foam before the milk heats up now. Thats even when I leave the pitcher in the fridge with the milk in it for a while before steaming.
> 
> I do wonder if the pump is dying. I'm probably being paranoid now but it doesn't feel like the water is coming through the showerhead as quickly anymore either. Could someone please do a simple test of running water through their grouphead for 30s or so and let me know how much water comes through. I don't know if you would be able to do that Joey as you have just modded the pressure profiling of yours haven't you?


I should be able to just do it at full speed as normal. I'll do this tonight for you.

I'm racking my brain to try and remember what is in there and how it's routed.

Did you say you had done a descale recently? What is the water like where you live? Does the pump sound different to what it did before?

First thoughts would be a small blockage before the thermocoil or inside it. That would slow down both services.

We need to check the water delivery first though. Hopefully everything will fall into place after that


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> I should be able to just do it at full speed as normal. I'll do this tonight for you.


cheers Joey, much appreciated



joey24dirt said:


> Did you say you had done a descale recently? What is the water like where you live? Does the pump sound different to what it did before?


Sounds the same to my ear but I have never paid it that much attention.



joey24dirt said:


> First thoughts would be a small blockage before the thermocoil or inside it. That would slow down both services.
> 
> We need to check the water delivery first though. Hopefully everything will fall into place after that


Hopefully, it would be a shame to have to replace it!


----------



## ajohn

Gaz| said:


> Sound cool John! If you need anything I can get my hands on/make for you at work by all means let me know. I'm more than willing to help the cause!
> 
> Also Merry Christmas to All!


I've got no chance of making and adapter for the ebay portafilter pressure gauge at the moment but have drawn one up.







Took longer to draw than it would to make. To get it reasonably to scale I had to draw it twice full size and then change the dimensioning. Not used the package much either. LibreCAD. It's better than most free stuff.









There is more 3/8 bsp length than the gauge needs but as it has flat rubber bung in it ptfe tape might be a better option. I've chamfered the end of the bsp a bit past the thread as that may help seal on the bung. The thread on the portafilter is only about 5mm long and I think I have shown a drill depth that would be ok with an M16x1 2nd tap. I only buy plug taps if I really need one. A standard section O ring that lightly clips M16 should be ok to seal to the portafilter - the chamfer at that end is to stop it spreading as it's tightened up. Something near 10 degrees is likely to be best.Drawn at 25mm - That's just what it came out at and for up to 15 bar a lot more than is needed really. It does need to be some what larger than the o/d of the o ring used with it.

And this should come out about full sized
















It'll probably be a month or two or more before I can make one.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

So then another adapter from the 3/8 male to 1/4 female for a gauge, or is this to fit a gauge you have?


----------



## pgarrish

I will be joining this club soon







. For info, Amazon have it back at £250 and in stock, Lakeland have it at £250 and apparently will have in stock later this week.

New burrs ordered for the mighty Santos, so I should be brewing like a pro (! ha!) this time next week....


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> So then another adapter from the 3/8 male to 1/4 female for a gauge, or is this to fit a gauge you have?


No it's for the ebay portafilter pressure gauge which expects the usual 3/8 bsp on the portafilter. This one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orman-Coffee-Portafilter-Pressure-Dial-Gauge-Tester-Espresso-Machine-Maker-Ex/162180713780?epid=1271531720&hash=item25c2b94d34:g:FssAAOSw5cNYlb9d








When people upgrade to a proper machine they will still have a suitable gauge this way. = Something more professional is sometimes mentioned. In my case the gauge will fit the Piccino.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> cheers Joey, much appreciated
> 
> Sounds the same to my ear but I have never paid it that much attention.
> 
> Hopefully, it would be a shame to have to replace it!


I did the test with a double, single walled empty basket...










So that's just over 60ml in 15 seconds

I then had a boo boo......










Back to using my iPhone then


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> No it's for the ebay portafilter pressure gauge which expects the usual 3/8 bsp on the portafilter. This one
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orman-Coffee-Portafilter-Pressure-Dial-Gauge-Tester-Espresso-Machine-Maker-Ex/162180713780?epid=1271531720&hash=item25c2b94d34:g:FssAAOSw5cNYlb9d
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people upgrade to a proper machine they will still have a suitable gauge this way. = Something more professional is sometimes mentioned. In my case the gauge will fit the Piccino.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Proper machine?


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Proper machine?










Of course everybody knows that sage don't make decent espresso machines and do make crap grinders.







People mustn't faff about with a single basket either.

John

-


----------



## Missy

ajohn said:


> Of course everybody knows that sage don't make decent espresso machines and do make crap grinders.  People mustn't faff about with a single basket either.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Oh dear. Making a hat hive? Because you've clearly got a bee in your bonnet. There is no criticism of the sage machines... Some of their suggested techniques are designed to appeal to the market that's used to brown soup production rather than creating excellent coffee (eg the razor) but the machines are sound...


----------



## mctrials23

joey24dirt said:


> I did the test with a double, single walled empty basket...
> 
> So that's just over 60ml in 15 seconds
> 
> I then had a boo boo......


Oh dear! I feel partially responsible for this!

Thanks for doing that Joey. I seem to get pretty much the same so I guess thats something.


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> Oh dear! I feel partially responsible for this!
> 
> Thanks for doing that Joey. I seem to get pretty much the same so I guess thats something.


Haha it's all your fault!! 

It will just spur me in to try and make an integrated timer now


----------



## ajohn

Missy said:


> Oh dear. Making a hat hive? Because you've clearly got a bee in your bonnet. There is no criticism of the sage machines... Some of their suggested techniques are designed to appeal to the market that's used to brown soup production rather than creating excellent coffee (eg the razor) but the machines are sound...


LOL Tongue in cheek comments. I get a bit cheesed off with telepathic coffee tasters that taste what I drink from afar - razor tool - I just made a more explanatory post as to why it can pay to use it.

I am a bit brassed of with certain aspects of Sage 53mm machines true. If I did upgrade it would very probably be to another make that offers similar features but in one respect it looks like it would be a step back for me so chances of changing are small. I'd be a bit brassed off with their 58mm machines too. Grinders - well; must spend more and more in that area often crops up. Currently I'm not a believer but have 2 others to clean up and try and find out if it's really worth it.

John

-


----------



## MWJB

ajohn said:


> I get a bit cheesed off with telepathic coffee tasters that taste what I drink from afar
> 
> -


Nobody can taste what you taste, from afar - this works 2 ways - you enjoy what you make & nobody can contradict that, also nobody else can taste what you make so can't be sure that your preferences align with anyone else's. Nobody has told you what you do is wrong, if you like it. Nobody has set rules for you to follow. In the same vein, nobody (other than you) really knows what you have done to make any cups, as you will not provide detail.

On the other hand, you seem to be on a mission to convince everyone that Sage have made the baskets in the wrong sizes (ajohn's rule #1?), that puckology is a guide to extraction (ajohn's rule #2?), shots are 30ml or 60ml (ajohn's rule #3?).

Don't get cheesed off. Take advice in the spirit is offered, well intentioned. Concentrate more on effective communication that others can follow & replicate (DTP has no pressure guage to watch, no '2 shot' button, etc.), rather than comments undermining conflicting views & those that have them.


----------



## PPapa

Did anyone complain about the drip tray being too small?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Did anyone complain about the drip tray being too small?


I wonder if a microswitch energised by the level arm would work?


----------



## haz_pro

How big is the tank on these machines? Maybe you could partition it and have a small section for the tube to pump into.


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> I wonder if a microswitch energised by the level arm would work?










You could add an overflow to the drip tray and mount the machine over the sink







something bigger. I suspect the other method might be best though - re route the output from the OPV back to the water tank.

People could try running their shot through an empty pressurised basket and compare what goes into the drip tray against the same for their normal shot. Probably find that a lot more comes out using the pressurised basket so it would be best to terminate it roughly to match their usual size of shot. The pressurised basket give this sort of brew pressure profile - needle dead vertical actually during high pressure. Go past the "ideal espresso range" and I think more comes out of the opv so the drip tray fills up more quickly and the tank also empties more quickly. The DTP lacks the gauge but the pressurised baskets should give the same behaviour without it. I've found that with some grinds and fills 4 or 5 times the shot can finish up in the drip tray. I use the single though. Maybe the double is different. Doubt it. When I try the pressurised basket about 50ml / 50g goes to the drip tray. I'd be interested to know what others get also with the shots they pull.









John

-


----------



## ajohn

ajohn said:


> I've got no chance of making and adapter for the ebay portafilter pressure gauge at the moment but have drawn one up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Took longer to draw than it would to make. To get it reasonably to scale I had to draw it twice full size and then change the dimensioning. Not used the package much either. LibreCAD. It's better than most free stuff.
> 
> View attachment 31044
> 
> 
> There is more 3/8 bsp length than the gauge needs but as it has flat rubber bung in it ptfe tape might be a better option. I've chamfered the end of the bsp a bit past the thread as that may help seal on the bung. The thread on the portafilter is only about 5mm long and I think I have shown a drill depth that would be ok with an M16x1 2nd tap. I only buy plug taps if I really need one. A standard section O ring that lightly clips M16 should be ok to seal to the portafilter - the chamfer at that end is to stop it spreading as it's tightened up. Something near 10 degrees is likely to be best.Drawn at 25mm - That's just what it came out at and for up to 15 bar a lot more than is needed really. It does need to be some what larger than the o/d of the o ring used with it.
> 
> And this should come out about full sized
> 
> View attachment 31045
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It'll probably be a month or two or more before I can make one.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Made the part. Found that I had a junk 3/8bsp die so it took ages to cut the thread.







Made a bit of a boob too. I thought i had a bit of suitable stainless around but couldn't find it. I did find a piece of higher tensile aluminium.







Gets hot in use, expands and deform the thread a bit so needed pump pliers to get it off.

The portafilter gauge uses a very numpty seal.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orman-Coffee-Portafilter-Pressure-Dial-Gauge-Tester-Espresso-Machine-Maker-Ex/162180713780?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

A rather hard rubber bung that more or less fills the threaded hole leaving no thread exposed and a piece of mesh at the bottom. Don't know how they expect to seal against mesh. Best discard both parts and replace with an O ring. There is a metric size that fits well. The holes in a basket are smaller than those in the mesh.







Not sure of the size of the O ring as my box of them seems to be filled with incorrect sizes so has to go back. Several sizes are actually all the same.

So fired it up. Bit of a drip from the seal to the portafilter but I'd left the Sage O ring on. Pressure went up to 15bar - full whack for the gauge. The Sage gauge









went to where I would expect it to - mid way in the greyed out ticks at the end of the scale on it. I suspect it goes a bit higher and then drops back a touch when the OPV opens.

I'm inclined to think that the ebay gauge is way out. Any thoughts?

Arggggggggggggggggg The grinder felt washers arrived this morning. One of them is torn. I'm pretty sure that didn't happen in the post. Distorted some what yes but not torn.

John

-


----------



## ajohn

@joey24dirt

Did you try using a portafilter pressure gauge or just use a gauge plugged into the machine? I think you tried plumbed in and a blocked filter basket which should do the same thing and wondered what happened on the gauge. I tried an over filled basket to get the pressure way too high with coffee. On max pressure it just dribbling out. The portafilter gauge blocks flow completely. Totally different amounts of water in the drip tray. Coffee too high pressure about 200ml, portafilter gauge about the same as a normal shot, about 50ml.

With the portafilter gauge infusion sent the BE needle vertical and the one on the portafiter the same showing 7.5 bar. After infusion BE to the usual OPV pressure if that's what it is. Portafilter off scale >15 bar. That seems to be gauge Gaggia use. Maybe it's like this to prevent owners blowing up their boiler. Or who knows. There is a small green bar at 7.5bar.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> @joey24dirt
> 
> Did you try using a portafilter pressure gauge or just use a gauge plugged into the machine? I think you tried plumbed in and a blocked filter basket which should do the same thing and wondered what happened on the gauge. I tried an over filled basket to get the pressure way too high with coffee. On max pressure it just dribbling out. The portafilter gauge blocks flow completely. Totally different amounts of water in the drip tray. Coffee too high pressure about 200ml, portafilter gauge about the same as a normal shot, about 50ml.
> 
> With the portafilter gauge infusion sent the BE needle vertical and the one on the portafiter the same showing 7.5 bar. After infusion BE to the usual OPV pressure if that's what it is. Portafilter off scale >15 bar. That seems to be gauge Gaggia use. Maybe it's like this to prevent owners blowing up their boiler. Or who knows. There is a small green bar at 7.5bar.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Yeah I just blocked up one of my filter baskets but it didn't make a perfect seal, so I should really try again. I might get a blind basket for testing.

I'm pretty sure it topped at 9 bar but I'd have to do it again to be sure.


----------



## ajohn

Confusion - the amount in the drip tray after emptying then doing a blocked shot then emptying again and doing the same with a run with stupid coffee load so that the pressure goes as high as it can. I had a very slight drip blocked via the portafilter gauge. Dribbles out of the coffee but only when it went to high pressure.







I may have produced a ratio of 1 to 0.5 - exaggeration but very very low. I have run like that before but not so extreme but still with the BE gauge where the OPV seems to put it. It seems odd that none seems to come out of the OPV with the flow blocked and more comes out of it with a pretty low flow rate through coffee. The 50ml figure for blocked is the same as any shot produces if the OPV pressure isn't reached. Then 200ml if flow through coffee at the OPV pressure and little coming out of the portafilter.

John

-


----------



## ashcroc

ajohn said:


> Confusion - the amount in the drip tray after emptying then doing a blocked shot then emptying again and doing the same with a run with stupid coffee load so that the pressure goes as high as it can. I had a very slight drip blocked via the portafilter gauge. Dribbles out of the coffee but only when it went to high pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may have produced a ratio of 1 to 0.5 - exaggeration but very very low. I have run like that before but not so extreme but still with the BE gauge where the OPV seems to put it. It seems odd that none seems to come out of the OPV with the flow blocked and more comes out of it with a pretty low flow rate through coffee. The 50ml figure for blocked is the same as any shot produces if the OPV pressure isn't reached. Then 200ml if flow through coffee at the OPV pressure and little coming out of the portafilter.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I'm a bit surprised the OPV dumps into the drip tray. On the tebe (& classic) it dumps to the tank to be reused. The 3 way solenoid dumps to the drip tray after the shot as that's dirty water coming from the brewhead/basket.


----------



## joey24dirt

ashcroc said:


> I'm a bit surprised the OPV dumps into the drip tray. On the tebe (& classic) it dumps to the tank to be reused. The 3 way solenoid dumps to the drip tray after the shot as that's dirty water coming from the brewhead/basket.


Yeah you're absolutely right. Just looked back at some photos I had taken and it does head back to the pump feed side


----------



## ajohn

ashcroc said:


> I'm a bit surprised the OPV dumps into the drip tray. On the tebe (& classic) it dumps to the tank to be reused. The 3 way solenoid dumps to the drip tray after the shot as that's dirty water coming from the brewhead/basket.


Yep. My piccino dumps the opv to the tank. It seems to be a pretty general thing even though on the Piccino for instance the tank itself plugs into the machine at the base much like Sage machines do. The return pipe goes in the top making getting the tank out awkward. It will also drip if pulled out. That's probably why Fracino don't even provide a handle on the tank and people I assume like me add water via a jug. Sage Breville and etc produce domestic consumer goods so just wouldn't do that sort of thing. The tank has a handle which also lifts up a separate attached tank cover when it's raised - all nice and neat. They could try plugging two none drip spouts into the machine from the tank but they might then have tolerancing problems. I have worked in the design plastic bits and pieces area and if some one asked me to do that I'd wonder if it would work. There would also be an on cost.

I started looking at this because the OPV limits how fine coffee can be ground. I wondered if it was set at 7.5 bar which I feel would be too low. I'm beginning to think it's 9 or 10 going on the gauge I used which is sold for use with some Gaggia machine or the other. Unlike the dual boiler the gauge on the BE doesn't have bar markings just indications of regions for infusion and peak shot pressures. It also has some tick marks. If those were bar then the opv would be opening at 7.5 bar which is what Gaggia seem to do on some machines.

I don't think that dumping it into the drip tray is a problem if the pressure is high enough before that happens. It's not always easy to see the gauge in cafe's etc but I seem to have got a figure of about 9 bar in my head. The dual boiler from a video looks to use 10. I use the single basket a lot and what I find is that in order to get pre infusion pressure the max pressure needs to be well up on the gauge far more so than Sage indicate in their manual. Due to that I have been known to brew with the OPV open but try to avoid it. If that does open at 7.5bar I obviously need to increase it.

The 3 way on the BE does dump into the drip tray. Also maybe some water for cooling hot bits that no longer have water running through them. I don't know if the DTP has a 3 way or not. Think Joey has fitted one himself. Not sure.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

> I don't know if the DTP has a 3 way or not. Think Joey has fitted one himself. Not sure.
> 
> John
> 
> -


They don't and yes I did, albeit a little bit crude haha


----------



## ajohn

I've ordered a glycerine filled gauge. Found a smaller one that has a 1/8 bsp rear fitting, 50mm dia. Both of those sizes seem to be unusual.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50mm-Glycerine-Pressure-Gauge-Back-Entry-0-150-PSI-10-Bar-Stainless-GC5010-02/253348619035?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

B grade is +/- 3%.







Just hope I don't find that I should have bought the 20 bar version.

One other possibility for an even smaller one is the types fitted to pressure washers. Not totally sure if they will work but assume they cope with pulses. Only one I could find was a rather silly price. Way too much.

John

-


----------



## pgarrish

It's been despatched


----------



## pgarrish

And guess what was hidden behind the bin?












Didn't take long to set up, tasted much stronger than from the delonghi and with more crema


----------



## pgarrish

Need some practice with the milk (no piccies yet!)

But it's a much stronger steamer than the delonghi


----------



## pgarrish

The coffee seems much stronger - too strong for my wife - so I'll try weighing out as well as weighing the beans - there wasn't room to get scales under the glasses on the delonghi, it will also lift the glasses nearer the portafilter, that said, I think thinner walked glasses would help so I can get them closer together - I split the brew into two singles as we both like single shot drinks

The steam wand is a beast though... and the jug is very nice too. The tamper may be light but it works well enough just now.


----------



## Missy

pgarrish said:


> The coffee seems much stronger - too strong for my wife - so I'll try weighing out as well as weighing the beans - there wasn't room to get scales under the glasses on the delonghi, it will also lift the glasses nearer the portafilter, that said, I think thinner walked glasses would help so I can get them closer together - I split the brew into two singles as we both like single shot drinks


Weighing in and out really is the only way to get repeatability, and to work out how to make it taste how you want it to!


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> The coffee seems much stronger - too strong for my wife - so I'll try weighing out as well as weighing the beans - there wasn't room to get scales under the glasses on the delonghi, it will also lift the glasses nearer the portafilter, that said, I think thinner walked glasses would help so I can get them closer together - I split the brew into two singles as we both like single shot drinks
> 
> The steam wand is a beast though... and the jug is very nice too. The tamper may be light but it works well enough just now.


Great to have another happy owner on board


----------



## pgarrish

Missy said:


> Weighing in and out really is the only way to get repeatability, and to work out how to make it taste how you want it to!


Yep, much more so with the sage by the looks of it


----------



## ajohn

ajohn said:


> I've ordered a glycerine filled gauge. Found a smaller one that has a 1/8 bsp rear fitting, 50mm dia. Both of those sizes seem to be unusual.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50mm-Glycerine-Pressure-Gauge-Back-Entry-0-150-PSI-10-Bar-Stainless-GC5010-02/253348619035?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
> 
> B grade is +/- 3%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just hope I don't find that I should have bought the 20 bar version.
> 
> One other possibility for an even smaller one is the types fitted to pressure washers. Not totally sure if they will work but assume they cope with pulses. Only one I could find was a rather silly price. Way too much.
> 
> John
> 
> -










20 bar wouldn't have been a bad idea but fortunately the needle will swing well past 10 so will probably take lot of use over 10 to damage it.







The needle more or less reaches the zero mark again.

I still get the same odd happening when it's on. Just 50ml into the drip tray. Coffee can put a lot more there if the pressure goes too high. All I can probably do is use the portafilter gauge to check what the markings are on the BE ones are in bar. Easiest way to do that would be to take a video with my finger on the shot button to keep the pump running at infusion rate.

There is no needle flicker with this gauge. None I could see anyway. There probably would be if the OPV actually opened due to the way they work.

John

-


----------



## Aharries

Finally got my portafilter chopped. Pleased with the results and lovely tasting coffee.











IMS basket and shower screen. Black bear blend coffee from coffee factory. 18.5 grams in 42 grams out. Video starts a few seconds into pre infusion. This is the second run with the new portafilter with similar results.

Have been using this coffee for a few days after swapping from their big red blend. Lovely flavour, nice and nutty.

Looking to mix it up and try some different roasters soon. Any suggestions (already tried pact and has been but may go back and try some different varieties.)

Good to see the DTP bug spreading.


----------



## PPapa

Really digging the new workflow, thanks again to @joey24dirt that made it possible (naked pf, distribution tool, clump free whisk & tamper). 










It just feels like it takes so much variance out of the equation that it becomes... too easy?


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> Really digging the new workflow, thanks again to @joey24dirt that made it possible (naked pf, distribution tool, clump free whisk & tamper).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just feels like it takes so much variance out of the equation that it becomes... too easy?


Looking good! Glad you're enjoying it. Hopefully have your next stash done at some point soon


----------



## Teejay

After weeks of toing and froing I'll be joined the club and expecting delivery tomorrow. Decided that since it's the first espresso machine, I would take the safe (sage) route. If it hadn't been £250 I would have gone for something E61 probably the Lelit Mara. This will hopefully get me on the road and I can figure out the pros and cons and what I consider important should I need to upgrade.

What accessories are best to get to either improve taste or work flow?

.. message ends ..


----------



## PPapa

Teejay said:


> After weeks of toing and froing I'll be joined the club and expecting delivery tomorrow. Decided that since it's the first espresso machine, I would take the safe (sage) route. If it hadn't been £250 I would have gone for something E61 probably the Lelit Mara. This will hopefully get me on the road and I can figure out the pros and cons and what I consider important should I need to upgrade.
> 
> What accessories are best to get to either improve taste or work flow?
> 
> .. message ends ..


Welcome!

Depends on what grinder you're using?

I'd rank accessories in this order:

Scales & Tamper are a must

Naked portafilter

Some sort of whisk

Milk jug

Portafilter funnel

Distribution tool

IMS shower screen

IMS basket(s) if you're not happy with the current one


----------



## MildredM

PPapa said:


> Welcome!
> 
> Depends on what grinder you're using?
> 
> I'd rank accessories in this order:
> 
> Scales & Tamper are a must
> 
> Naked portafilter
> 
> Some sort of whisk
> 
> Milk jug
> 
> Portafilter funnel
> 
> Distribution tool
> 
> IMS shower screen
> 
> IMS basket(s) if you're not happy with the current one


Err . . . Bar towel?!


----------



## ajohn

MildredM said:


> Err . . . Bar towel?!










I use man sized tissues as there are always some about but most of the time get pucks that come out rather well.

Might be best to point out that IMS La Spaz baskets need either a helpful man, pliers or a lathe to modify them to fit.

There is another basket that can be modified that I am finding is useful. It's a La Spaz pod basket off ebay which holds just up to 14g of coffee. Some beans might up that a bit and some others lessen it. It starts giving wetish pucks at around 12g. Modification with pliers may not work out on this one and if a lathe is used it's a slightly tight fit against the grouphead seal.

John

-


----------



## Teejay

It came, I unpacked, I ground, it choked, I ran out of coffee









Now I'm off in my camper for the weekend.

.. message ends..


----------



## Aharries

PPapa said:


> Welcome!
> 
> I'd rank accessories in this order:
> 
> Scales & Tamper are a must
> 
> Naked portafilter
> 
> Some sort of whisk
> 
> Milk jug
> 
> Portafilter funnel
> 
> Distribution tool
> 
> IMS shower screen
> 
> IMS basket(s) if you're not happy with the current one


It's very dependant on what drinks your making but it's a good list to get you started. Scales and tamper is on the top of my list too since its about consistently good coffee.

I think the ims basket should be higher on the list and the jury is still out on the shower screen.

Get a knock box for easy cleaning.

I don't use a whisk or distribution tool and I'm quite happy with the consistency I'm acheiving. But, I have never tried them so I may be missing out on something big. I have tried various distribution methods and found that a consistent number of horizontal and vertical taps is the least fussy and equally as effective.

I grind straight into my portafilter so don't use a funnel and the milk jug provided has suited me for the odd flat white and latte that I've made.

Get yourself some nice espresso cups.


----------



## pgarrish

Been struggling this week with new beans. Finally dialled in today after upping the dose to 18:36ish

Struggling with weighing out as we use two glasses and my scales are too small to hold them both but weighing afterwards is helping get my eye in

Inconsistent with the milk after trying the 2 stage technique from a different video instead of the chirping-whirlpool from the sage video. I'm going back to that though as it seems more reliable for me

Last couple of drinks have been nice with a bone dry puck

Tempted with joeys toys but want to get the new grinder burrs first before changing anything else (or spending any more...)


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> Been struggling this week with new beans. Finally dialled in today after upping the dose to 18:36ish
> 
> Struggling with weighing out as we use two glasses and my scales are too small to hold them both but weighing afterwards is helping get my eye in
> 
> Inconsistent with the milk after trying the 2 stage technique from a different video instead of the chirping-whirlpool from the sage video. I'm going back to that though as it seems more reliable for me
> 
> Last couple of drinks have been nice with a bone dry puck
> 
> Tempted with joeys toys but want to get the new grinder burrs first before changing anything else (or spending any more...)


Which toys were you thinking about? I'm likely to be ordering a few bits soon lol. Sage currently down have any portafilters in stock though


----------



## pgarrish

Naked pf would be very foolish (not to mention messy) but I like the tampers... and the LEDs (but not whilst I'm in warranty). I'll PM you if and when I'm ready


----------



## ashcroc

joey24dirt said:


> Which toys were you thinking about? I'm likely to be ordering a few bits soon lol. Sage currently down have any portafilters in stock though


They must really be wonderinf what you keep doing to them to need to order so many hehe


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> Naked pf would be very foolish (not to mention messy) but I like the tampers... and the LEDs (but not whilst I'm in warranty). I'll PM you if and when I'm ready


I had thought about doing a kit for the leds. I have everything here to make them. I just wasn't sure about interest.


----------



## joey24dirt

ashcroc said:


> They must really be wonderinf what you keep doing to them to need to order so many hehe


Haha I know. I ordered 10 last year and had to explain what they were for.


----------



## PPapa

pgarrish said:


> Naked pf would be very foolish (not to mention messy) but I like the tampers... and the LEDs (but not whilst I'm in warranty). I'll PM you if and when I'm ready


No one is going to deny the fact that it can get messy, but it's totally worth it.

Joey's tools are great work and the push-style tamper and distribution tools fit so much better than Sage/Motta tampers.


----------



## pgarrish

Burrs first

Then we'll see... SWMBO needs consulting before more spending


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> Burrs first
> 
> Then we'll see... SWMBO needs consulting before more spending


At the risk of sounding like an idiot......

SWMBO?


----------



## pgarrish

She who must be obeyed 

(The wife )


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> She who must be obeyed


Haha thanks. I've got me one of those also


----------



## kdr152

Pulled first ground coffee after dialling in the Mignon. Was very straightforward. Not sure I should have tasted as much. Now feel a bit ill!









DTP is so capable. So easy to drive and as per advice, pre-ground is good but the game is elevated when you grind the beans.

May need a few tweaks but it tastes great and am loving the machine and experience.


----------



## filthynines

My brother and I both have the DTP; his came used from a forum member. I used it for the first time yesterday (after testing it in situ when I collected it for him) and the pre-infusion [no portafilter] seemed to put far more water through than on mine. Trying to think of how to describe it to ask for comparisons with other members' machines, but can't manage it.

If anybody gets bored today and feels like taking a vid of the pre-infusion stage [again, without portafilter] then I'd be most grateful.


----------



## joey24dirt

I did something similar for another member a few posts back. I think I measured 60ml in 15 seconds or something to that effect.


----------



## filthynines

joey24dirt said:


> I did something similar for another member a few posts back. I think I measured 60ml in 15 seconds or something to that effect.


Thanks for that, Joey! Was the test you did just shutting off after 15 secs, or was it specifically for the pre-infusion time?


----------



## joey24dirt

I just cut it then because I had filled the cup nearly. I'll have a look back to see if I can find it


----------



## joey24dirt

filthynines said:


> Thanks for that, Joey! Was the test you did just shutting off after 15 secs, or was it specifically for the pre-infusion time?












This was no pf into a cup


----------



## filthynines

Thanks @joey24dirt - I only have a Pyrex that goes from 50ml to 100ml, but it looked like it was around 60ml after 15 secs.

Oddly my brother's DTP seems to have a strong flow immediately. I'll be interested to see what volume his pushes out after 15 secs.


----------



## Mr Kirk

Aharries said:


> Looking to mix it up and try some different roasters soon. Any suggestions (already tried pact and has been but may go back and try some different varieties.)
> 
> Good to see the DTP bug spreading.


Have a look for Dog and Hat on here, Facebook and their website.

Really, really great service. Got my delivery today.


----------



## DogandHat

Mr Kirk said:


> Have a look for Dog and Hat on here, Facebook and their website.
> 
> Really, really great service. Got my delivery today.


Aww, shucks, thanks @mr_kirk... and we're DTP owners too ;-)


----------



## Mr Kirk

DogandHat said:


> Aww, shucks, thanks @mr_kirk... and we're DTP owners too ;-)


The ratios should be perfect then!


----------



## Aharries

Just woken up for my night shift to find that same dog and hat box has been delivered this afternoon. Have just come to the end of a bag of Don Chico so already dialled in. The 18:36 ratio is perfect, it needs a finer grind than most of the coffees I've put through the machine. I've also found that a slightly longer extraction gets the best flavour ~35-40 seconds. That's when I've found you get that nuttiness.

Looking forward to trying a Chinese coffee too.

Nice to know they've been tried and tested on a DTP.


----------



## Andycoffee

Well and truly in the duo club now. First ever setup.

Having trouble getting 60ml in around 30 seconds at 16g in double basket. Not sure if its my tamp or grind. Any tips on how the grind should feel between fingers ??


----------



## joey24dirt

Andycoffee said:


> View attachment 31676
> 
> 
> Well and truly in the duo club now. First ever setup.
> 
> Having trouble getting 60ml in around 30 seconds at 16g in double basket. Not sure if its my tamp or grind. Any tips on how the grind should feel between fingers ??


What sort of drink are you trying to make? 60ml seems too much from 16g of coffee. Usual practice would be to start with a 1:2 ratio and work around that... so from 16g you'd be looking for 32g


----------



## Andycoffee

@joey24dirt im basically looking for a double ahot to use for latte as thats pretty much all i drink coffee wise.

Any help always welcome. Sadly had to use waitrose beans as a last minute dash. I have now ordered some Rave signature blend which will be a lot fresher. Im using 30lb pressure to tamp as ive measured it.

Just not sure what the grind should feel like either. Am i looking for like talc or with a bit of grit to it ??


----------



## Banjoman

FWIW see this youtube vid;





 - he discusses the feel of the grind.

I'm a beginner too, and well remember your situation a few months ago. But ... most people don't try to judge the grind size 'by feel'. It's much easier to get some electronic scales with a resolution to 0.1g or 0.01g (under a tenner on Amazon). Then weigh your coffee grinds in, say 16g. Then weigh your espresso shot as it comes out of the portafilter and stop the flow when when you have got double the weight out, i.e. 32g. The ratio of 1:2 of the weights isn't crucial but is a good starting point. Now, the way you know your grind is about right is that:

1. drips start to come out of the portafilter at around 10 - 12 seconds;

2. you get to target shot weight (e.g. 32g with my numbers) after a total of between 20 and 30 seconds - again, not crucial, it could be as much as 40 seconds or even more - but this is a good starting point.

Then, what is crucial is you taste it. If it's sour (and comes out too quickly), you need to grind finer; if it's bitter (and takes too long to come out) you've gone too fine and you need to grind coarser.

Hope that helps (and isn't stuff you already know). Let us know how you get on.


----------



## ashcroc

> FWIW see this youtube vid;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for dialing in a recipe.


----------



## joey24dirt

Andycoffee said:


> @joey24dirt im basically looking for a double ahot to use for latte as thats pretty much all i drink coffee wise.
> 
> Any help always welcome. Sadly had to use waitrose beans as a last minute dash. I have now ordered some Rave signature blend which will be a lot fresher. Im using 30lb pressure to tamp as ive measured it.
> 
> Just not sure what the grind should feel like either. Am i looking for like talc or with a bit of grit to it ??


Try not to worry too much about your tamp pressure, as long as you stay consistent with it you'll not need to keep checking how hard you're pressing. Keep things as level as you can though.

The fresh beans will change things again but if you follow the advice others have given then it will all start to fall into place.

Definitely a steep learning curve to begin with


----------



## 9719

Andycoffee said:


> View attachment 31676
> 
> 
> Well and truly in the duo club now. First ever setup.
> 
> Having trouble getting 60ml in around 30 seconds at 16g in double basket. Not sure if its my tamp or grind. Any tips on how the grind should feel between fingers ??


Andy

Read the following, it ought to be made compulsory, it will give you something to work from and explains the 'ins and outs' of grinds to dose in detail.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22879

Hope it helps.

Start from post #1


----------



## joey24dirt

I've been thinking about the brass shower plate you get on a gaggia classic and wondered if I could come up with something similar. It would also have to be integrated with the IMS shower screen I use.

So this is the mk1 version. Definitely a work in progress as it will need some tweaks.




























It's certainly not perfect but it will do for a trial. Hoping to combat the right hand biased water flow and to maintain a steady group head temperature with the brass.

Fingers crossed


----------



## pgarrish

You must be aiming to build your own machine later this year ?.......


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> You must be aiming to build your own machine later this year ?.......


I am considering a lego casing but need time and a donor machine lol


----------



## pgarrish

joey24dirt said:


> I am considering a lego casing but need time and a donor machine lol


Once you buy that 2nd DTP to check the tamper fits you'll be ready to go!

The DirtBox manualmatic semi autonomous coffee extraction machine will live! (Yes I like Wallace and Gromit)


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> Once you buy that 2nd DTP to check the tamper fits you'll be ready to go!
> 
> The DirtBox manualmatic semi autonomous coffee extraction machine will live! (Yes I like Wallace and Gromit)


Haha I'm going to steal that name. I reckon it will market well!

As for a second machine, I'll see how many DTP owners get upgraditus and maybe pick one up from there.

I do have some tamper handles made for the dock but they were a bit long and I never got around to altering them, so I can't remember exact dimensions.


----------



## Teejay

Is it just my machine or does everyone's DTP seem to drip water in the storage draw behind the drip tray. Not sure if its leaking or not. Also where is the allen key in the packaging, I seem to have missed it.


----------



## pgarrish

I get a bit of liquid in the tool tray - I suspect it's from purging the steam wand as it's usually in that side

I don't think I got an Allen key either....


----------



## joey24dirt

I don't think they come with and Allen key which is annoying really for what it would cost them.

Where the tray is there's obviously a lot of steam so yeah it's just off that.


----------



## Teejay

joey24dirt said:


> I don't think they come with and Allen key which is annoying really for what it would cost them.
> 
> Where the tray is there's obviously a lot of steam so yeah it's just off that.


Well I might launch a petition !  I only ask because if you look at the Sage site and Allen key is listed as an accessory.


----------



## ashcroc

Have you checked around all the packaging? It's not uncommon for something like an allen key (or grill handle for that matter) to be stuck in a recess on the outside of one of the included pieces of polystyrene.


----------



## Teejay

ashcroc said:


> Have you checked around all the packaging? It's not uncommon for something like an allen key (or grill handle for that matter) to be stuck in a recess on the outside of one of the included pieces of polystyrene.


I'll have a look when I get back. I'm away from the weekend.


----------



## PPapa

Mine (refurb) came with an Allen key, but it's fairly cheap one anyway.


----------



## Andycoffee

Mine came from lakland and does have the allen key.


----------



## pgarrish

Andycoffee said:


> Mine came from lakland and dies have the allen key.


Where did they hide it?


----------



## Andycoffee

pgarrish said:


> Where did they hide it?


In with the cleaning kit i think it was. Ill be honest got very excited and just ripped it all open lol


----------



## ATZ

Quite happy with the flat whites I'm now getting out of my trusty DTP.


----------



## khampal

Teejay said:


> Is it just my machine or does everyone's DTP seem to drip water in the storage draw behind the drip tray. Not sure if its leaking or not. Also where is the allen key in the packaging, I seem to have missed it.


Yup, get plenty of water in my storage tray here. I just ended up removing mine.


----------



## ajohn

khampal said:


> Yup, get plenty of water in my storage tray here. I just ended up removing mine.


I did on my BE initially and then realised that things can drip even after the machine has finished what ever it was doing and also for some time after that. I just keep baskets that I don't use and the supplied tools in the storage tray now. The cleaning tablets etc are kept some where else just in case.

John

-


----------



## pgarrish

next project for Joey?

[video=youtube;7A-L00q5a1o]


----------



## sues1958

Teejay said:


> Is it just my machine or does everyone's DTP seem to drip water in the storage draw behind the drip tray. Not sure if its leaking or not. Also where is the allen key in the packaging, I seem to have missed it.


I get water in the storage tray too. I read somewhere that that is normal. Sorry don't know anything about a key.


----------



## Teejay

Andycoffee said:


> Mine came from lakland and does have the allen key.


Looked through the packaging and definitely no Allen key.


----------



## filthynines

No allen key for me either. Found one amongst some tools.


----------



## ajohn

It's a sort of shortened allen key. I can't remember where mine was packed. I assume this is the same part - seems other than DB owners no one else might want one.

https://sageappliances.co.uk/collections/bes920uk-parts/products/allen-keys?variant=51393903364

It is a convenient size. M4 if some one needs to buy.

John

-


----------



## Lilybell2

My Barista Express (may it rest in peace) came with an allen key.

Never had water get into the storage drawer unless I made the mistake of removing the drip tray before the machine finished purging.


----------



## Teejay

I should maybe add this to the muppetry thread but I'll add it here. I wondered why there was water steeaming out of my machine tonight. Then I realised the cover for the drip tray was 180 degrees out! So the little "Empty" me sign had no where to go. Doh.


----------



## joey24dirt

Teejay said:


> I should maybe add this to the muppetry thread but I'll add it here. I wondered why there was water steeaming out of my machine tonight. Then I realised the cover for the drip tray was 180 degrees out! So the little "Empty" me sign had no where to go. Doh.


Haha I've done the same. It's my only gripe with this machine... the small drip tray!


----------



## ashcroc

Teejay said:


> I should maybe add this to the muppetry thread but I'll add it here. I wondered why there was water steeaming out of my machine tonight. Then I realised the cover for the drip tray was 180 degrees out! So the little "Empty" me sign had no where to go. Doh.


Count yourself lucky you have an 'empty me' sign. My tebe only has a puddle to warn me I've forgotten to empty.


----------



## Teejay

joey24dirt said:


> Haha I've done the same. It's my only gripe with this machine... the small drip tray!


Yeah that and it goes through so much water ! I seem to constantly refill the tank. You should try pulling shots with a Cusinart grinder. Difficult to the grind just right, the Niche cannot come quick enough. I do like the quick startup but still seem to have lukewarm drinks. Need some double walled cups or really think 'uns to retain some heat.


----------



## pgarrish

do you pre-warm all the cups?


----------



## Teejay

pgarrish said:


> do you pre-warm all the cups?


I do, boil the kettle, and the PF either by running a shot and/or plunging in the water filled up cup Its better now the milk is hotter, maybe my house is just cold


----------



## joey24dirt

@Teejay do you have anything to measure the temperature of the water if pulled straight into a cup?


----------



## Teejay

joey24dirt said:


> @Teejay do you have anything to measure the temperature of the water if pulled straight into a cup?


I have the normal kitchen aid one that I calibrated using ice water. I tried that last week but it's worth trying it again.

It does feel quite hot from the shower screen; but I'll check it out.

Could someone let me know what theirs comes out at ?


----------



## joey24dirt

Teejay said:


> I have the normal kitchen aid one that I calibrated using ice water. I tried that last week but it's worth trying it again.
> 
> It does feel quite hot from the shower screen; but I'll check it out.
> 
> Could someone let me know what theirs comes out at ?


First shot after switch on










Then another a few minutes later


----------



## joey24dirt

When I run my pump as a lower voltage I get increased temperature again. Maybe +5 degrees


----------



## Teejay

Just after power on:









After several minutes and almost a full cup:


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> Haha I've done the same. It's my only gripe with this machine... the small drip tray!


Mine needs emptying less often now. I try to avoid opening the BE's OPV. That results in 60ml going into the tray. That's 2 shots effectively as it includes a flush. Open the OPV and it can go up to over 250ml.

John

-


----------



## Banjoman

joey24dirt said:


> First shot after switch on
> 
> [thermometer pic1]
> 
> Then another a few minutes later
> 
> [thermometer pic2]


Very interesting (and pretty obvious I guess!). Temperature - I think this is the answer to my weaker than desired shots! I've been busy warming cups and putting a small amount of hot water through the head and pf before my espresso shot. I generally just have one shot at a time, rather than keeping the machine on for a while and having several shots. I think I'd been concentrating on every other variable except temperature, and wondering why my shot wasn't as strong or full of taste as I wanted. I'd got the grind right, not sour or bitter, good crema. I've been hung up on only being able to get 16g into the pf (could be the beans I suppose), just can't seem to get more than that at the moment; if I 'cram' more in I just end up with the puck stuck to the head, which is probably an indication that the pf is too full. But anyway ... decided today to fill up my pre-brewing flush cup with hot water from the head, rather than just quarter filling it. I think this has made the difference in warming the head up sufficiently. I had previously just assumed that once the DTP brew light stopped flashing and stayed on that it had reached sufficient temperature, but apparently not! Anyway, the result seemed to be good favour - result! I haven't got a refractometer (!) so can't objectively measure the strength - some day maybe but at £700 or so, quite an investment.

OK, I've got a thermometer, so now need to start measuring this variable for a while! Meanwhile that was my last bean of Rave Chatsworth blend. I'm out of beans until around next Monday, when yesterday's delivery of Foundry Finca - San Francisco will be 6 days old and ready to try - can't wait to try this much-plauded bean - thanks for the tip Joey.


----------



## ajohn

Teejay said:


> Just after power on:
> 
> After several minutes and almost a full cup:


I suspect the manual tells people to always flush the machine before pulling a shot, then dry the filter basket and add your grounds.








Who reads the manual though. I didn't completely and found that out for myself. It's a good idea anyway as helps keep the shower screen clean. If the fill happens to be too low it's surprising how much can get flushed out.

John

-


----------



## ajohn

joey24dirt said:


> When I run my pump as a lower voltage I get increased temperature again. Maybe +5 degrees


Your probably messing the PID constants up. If they do maintain a constant water temperature those are likely to change when a shot is run. Change the pump and they may need changing again but variable flow down to coffee fill and grind probably causes some variation anyway. Probably another reason for the usual comment about grouphead and portafilter thermal mass being desirable.







You had better put the bottom of the portafilter back in and the teflon insert - that most definitely will alter the flow temperature from a cold or just a bit warm portafilter.

I saw a review recently that suggested that the correct temperature in the cup is 72C. PID HX machine where people are expected to cool the boiler down for brewing.

John

-


----------



## joey24dirt

ajohn said:


> Your probably messing the PID constants up. If they do maintain a constant water temperature those are likely to change when a shot is run. Change the pump and they may need changing again but variable flow down to coffee fill and grind probably causes some variation anyway. Probably another reason for the usual comment about grouphead and portafilter thermal mass being desirable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You had better put the bottom of the portafilter back in and the teflon insert - that most definitely will alter the flow temperature from a cold or just a bit warm portafilter.
> 
> I saw a review recently that suggested that the correct temperature in the cup is 72C. PID HX machine where people are expected to cool the boiler down for brewing.
> 
> John
> 
> -


When I slow it down it makes for a better drink I'd say. Controls the shot a lot more with regards to spurting and channelling. I suppose it's just like one long preinfusion pull, with the added benefit of it being slightly hotter also.


----------



## joey24dirt

Bad DTP owner here!! First descale in s year I think haha. Used this puly stuff from amazon...










I had noticed the dial switch had been getting a bit tight, so thought I'd run some of this through. Worked a treat, machine feels brand new again


----------



## PPapa

How hard is the water in your area? Glasgow water doesn't seem to scale at all...


----------



## joey24dirt

PPapa said:


> How hard is the water in your area? Glasgow water doesn't seem to scale at all...


Medium I think. I found some scale particles when I cleaned my screen last so had a bit of a panic!


----------



## meg

joining the pack....or the club


----------



## pgarrish

It's a big box


----------



## Banjoman

Congratulations! Have you got a grinder? (I think it's a mob.)


----------



## meg

Yes, a Sage Smart Grinder Pro


----------



## sues1958

meg said:


> Yes, a Sage Smart Grinder Pro


I have exactly the same two pieces of kit. I'm well pleased with them x


----------



## bear102

Hello all.. I've just joined the DTP owners club and looking for some advice.

Before I got this I had a very forgiving entry level delonghi that turned out 'OK' coffee regularly and didn't need much thought about how I made the espresso.. now I've moved to the DTP I'm really struggling to get a 'great' espresso out of it. Don't get me wrong, the coffee tastes incredible, but that is mainly down to the beans rather than any skill I have.

The main problem I am seeing is that the coffee is flying out of the machine too quickly, I guess it means I'm under extracting but I can't work out why. I don't have a mega fancy grinder - I use this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00525XKPA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) on the finest setting and the grind is pretty fine. I tamp to the required level in the unpressurised filter basket and run the machine.. I'm finding that the coffee is coming through after around 6 seconds and in 14-15 I've got an 'espresso' I put it in quotations as there is no crema and it is not thick and honey-like as it should be. It looks like a very small americano!

Any help is appreciated and any more info you want I am happy to offer!


----------



## Missy

bear102 said:


> Hello all.. I've just joined the DTP owners club and looking for some advice.
> 
> Before I got this I had a very forgiving entry level delonghi that turned out 'OK' coffee regularly and didn't need much thought about how I made the espresso.. now I've moved to the DTP I'm really struggling to get a 'great' espresso out of it. Don't get me wrong, the coffee tastes incredible, but that is mainly down to the beans rather than any skill I have.
> 
> The main problem I am seeing is that the coffee is flying out of the machine too quickly, I guess it means I'm under extracting but I can't work out why. I don't have a mega fancy grinder - I use this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00525XKPA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) on the finest setting and the grind is pretty fine. I tamp to the required level in the unpressurised filter basket and run the machine.. I'm finding that the coffee is coming through after around 6 seconds and in 14-15 I've got an 'espresso' I put it in quotations as there is no crema and it is not thick and honey-like as it should be. It looks like a very small americano!
> 
> Any help is appreciated and any more info you want I am happy to offer!


It's the grinder. It's likely fine for a pressurised basket, but not for actual espresso.

You could look at a decent hand grinder, or at something like a mignon or superjolly second hand.

You could try overdosing the basket as a short term fix, how much are you weighing in and out?


----------



## Beth71

bear102 said:


> Hello all.. I've just joined the DTP owners club and looking for some advice.
> 
> Before I got this I had a very forgiving entry level delonghi that turned out 'OK' coffee regularly and didn't need much thought about how I made the espresso.. now I've moved to the DTP I'm really struggling to get a 'great' espresso out of it. Don't get me wrong, the coffee tastes incredible, but that is mainly down to the beans rather than any skill I have.
> 
> The main problem I am seeing is that the coffee is flying out of the machine too quickly, I guess it means I'm under extracting but I can't work out why. I don't have a mega fancy grinder - I use this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00525XKPA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) on the finest setting and the grind is pretty fine. I tamp to the required level in the unpressurised filter basket and run the machine.. I'm finding that the coffee is coming through after around 6 seconds and in 14-15 I've got an 'espresso' I put it in quotations as there is no crema and it is not thick and honey-like as it should be. It looks like a very small americano!
> 
> Any help is appreciated and any more info you want I am happy to offer!


Welcome to the club....

Here is what I would suggest.

1. Get a new grinder. A good grinder is as important if not more so than the machine when it comes to achieving drinkable results. I don't know what your budget for that might be, but a lot of people pair the DTP machine with a Mazzer SJ or a Mignon. If you keep an eye on the 'for sale' section on the forum, these regularly come up.

2. You say you tamp 'to the required level', but what you really need to be doing is weighing the amount of ground coffee you're using and how much coffee you're extracting and timing the shots. If you can tell us what you're working with, this would help. So, if you don't already have some, invest in some scales that measure in increments of 0.1g. Amazon is a good source for these and you should be able to pick some up for under a tenner.

3.What coffee beans are you using?

It may seem like a lot to take on board, but it should help you to get your coffee to where you want it to be







I'm sure others will be along with further help soon...


----------



## ksuddell

bear102 said:


> Hello all.. I've just joined the DTP owners club and looking for some advice.
> 
> Before I got this I had a very forgiving entry level delonghi that turned out 'OK' coffee regularly and didn't need much thought about how I made the espresso.. now I've moved to the DTP I'm really struggling to get a 'great' espresso out of it. Don't get me wrong, the coffee tastes incredible, but that is mainly down to the beans rather than any skill I have.
> 
> The main problem I am seeing is that the coffee is flying out of the machine too quickly, I guess it means I'm under extracting but I can't work out why. I don't have a mega fancy grinder - I use this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00525XKPA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) on the finest setting and the grind is pretty fine. I tamp to the required level in the unpressurised filter basket and run the machine.. I'm finding that the coffee is coming through after around 6 seconds and in 14-15 I've got an 'espresso' I put it in quotations as there is no crema and it is not thick and honey-like as it should be. It looks like a very small americano!
> 
> Any help is appreciated and any more info you want I am happy to offer!


Hi Bear,

I'm new to the forum but owned the DTP for almost 2 years now and have been visiting this forum for any help and advise for almost as long (the Sage forum has been a massive help). I just thought I'd chip in as I've been using the Bodum bistro grinder you have with the DTP and whilst I've been on the lookout for a new grinder (haven't had the chance to pick one up yet but will prob get the mignon when I do) the results with the Bodum grinder, I've found, to be perfectly acceptable. I'd lean towards the beans you are using as being the weak link. I use Rave beans and regularly get great crema with a 30sec pour using the double un-pressuried basket.

A new grinder is definitely going to be a positive but I wanted to let you know that I've been using the bodum grinder and found on the finest setting it does a good job and on a few rare occasions I have been able to choke the machine with select beans!

So I'd look at trying new beans first before you jump to a new grinder.


----------



## bear102

Interesting answers guys, I had thought the grinder may be the issue but ksuddells response has made me question it more









I am currently using extract coffee and the taste is excellent and expect them to be of sufficient quality. I will try some different beans as I have a batch of beans I got from lidl as my 'back up' in case I run out









thanks again guys!


----------



## bear102

Ooops... sorry for not mentioning.. I use 16-18g coffee typically in the double basket.


----------



## ksuddell

Beans must be fresh as well, that makes a massive difference. If the beans are more than a month past the roasted date then the quality in the cup drop off is sharp. It will be very difficult to get decent crema and the shots are more likely to run fast. I'd say anywhere between a week and 3 weeks post roast date is the sweet spot and I'd (on the recommendation of many on here) keep my beans in the freezer to keep them fresher for longer.


----------



## bear102

ksuddell said:


> Beans must be fresh as well, that makes a massive difference. If the beans are more than a month past the roasted date then the quality in the cup drop off is sharp. It will be very difficult to get decent crema and the shots are more likely to run fast. I'd say anywhere between a week and 3 weeks post roast date is the sweet spot and I'd (on the recommendation of many on here) keep my beans in the freezer to keep them fresher for longer.


Thanks for the information and help...

So I've been travelling with work for a few days and just got back to have coffee in the DTP... changed the beans and there is certainly a difference in the overall extraction. It is definitely thicker and I got a good crema this time but I am certain the espresso is still coming out too quick, I even get splashback from the liquid in the cup?! Saying all that... the coffee I am turning out tastes fantastic.


----------



## ksuddell

Glad we're getting closer to what sounds a good shot. I'm sure a better grinder would allow you to have more control over the grind and slow the extraction further but didn't want you to rush out and buy a new grinder when, from my experience, you can obtain decent coffee from your setup. Maybe try tamping a little harder if possible?

If not, I'm sure people more experienced on here could help you with weights and times in and out but this is not something I currently do.

Good luck


----------



## ashcroc

bear102 said:


> Thanks for the information and help...
> 
> So I've been travelling with work for a few days and just got back to have coffee in the DTP... changed the beans and there is certainly a difference in the overall extraction. It is definitely thicker and I got a good crema this time but I am certain the espresso is still coming out too quick, I even get splashback from the liquid in the cup?! Saying all that... the coffee I am turning out tastes fantastic.


A quick google shows some have modded the bodum bistro to grind finer. A different grinder would be better but it might be worth a shot.


----------



## ksuddell

ashcroc said:


> A quick google shows some have modded the bodum bistro to grind finer. A different grinder would be better but it might be worth a shot.


Thanks ashcroc. Wouldn't have thought of making mods to the grinder but found this https://www.shapeways.com/product/GB9H9Y8GY/bodum-bistro-burr-holder-0-8mm-finer-grind

Might give it a go for a tenner!


----------



## bear102

Interesting... will have a look.

Another quick update... the problem might just be that I stupidly did not check the filter and basket etc close enough when I got it home... just had a look and the spout was actually turned 360deg so it was loose... just tightened it up and the change was significant!


----------



## ashcroc

ksuddell said:


> Thanks ashcroc. Wouldn't have thought of making mods to the grinder but found this https://www.shapeways.com/product/GB9H9Y8GY/bodum-bistro-burr-holder-0-8mm-finer-grind
> 
> Might give it a go for a tenner!


That looks alot better than the desructive method I saw. Reversable mods will always be prefered from a resale perspective.


----------



## joey24dirt

100 pages of the DTP club and nearly 1000 posts!! Thats mental. Lots of love for this little machine.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

A mate of mine has bought a DTP at Xmas and is still using the tamper that came with it.

He's using the stock basket. What's the best tamper for this? Is it a Motta 53mm?

Does Joey24 still do the custom ones?

If so will it fit the stock? and if he upgrades to an IMS basket will it also fit?

He's also looking for a dosing funnel which I think someone on here does one for a DTP. It's to go with a Mignon which I also bought for him.

(I think I might be a caffeine bully)

Question question questions....sorry

I'll send him links for and he can make a call on this.

All advice welcome.


----------



## MildredM

urbanbumpkin said:


> A mate of mine has bought a DTP at Xmas and is still using the tamper that came with it.
> 
> He's using the stock basket. What's the best tamper for this? Is it a Motta 53mm?
> 
> Does Joey24 still do the custom ones?
> 
> If so will it fit the stock? and if he upgrades to an IMS basket will it also fit?
> 
> He's also looking for a dosing funnel which I think someone on here does one for a DTP. It's to go with a Mignon which I also bought for him.
> 
> (I think I might be a caffeine bully)
> 
> Question question questions....sorry
> 
> I'll send him links for and he can make a call on this.
> 
> All advice welcome.


hehe! Get him on the forum. We will be gentle









Norvin does the funnels, Joey does the most amazing tampers!


----------



## PPapa

urbanbumpkin said:


> He's using the stock basket. What's the best tamper for this? Is it a Motta 53mm?
> 
> Does Joey24 still do the custom ones?
> 
> If so will it fit the stock? and if he upgrades to an IMS basket will it also fit?


Best looking and best fit...


----------



## urbanbumpkin

MildredM said:


> Joey does the most amazing tampers!


I know they are stunning.


----------



## joey24dirt

urbanbumpkin said:


> A mate of mine has bought a DTP at Xmas and is still using the tamper that came with it.
> 
> He's using the stock basket. What's the best tamper for this? Is it a Motta 53mm?
> 
> Does Joey24 still do the custom ones?
> 
> If so will it fit the stock? and if he upgrades to an IMS basket will it also fit?
> 
> He's also looking for a dosing funnel which I think someone on here does one for a DTP. It's to go with a Mignon which I also bought for him.
> 
> (I think I might be a caffeine bully)
> 
> Question question questions....sorry
> 
> I'll send him links for and he can make a call on this.
> 
> All advice welcome.


A "mate" 

I can help with all of the above if needed. The stock ones should be easy enough to make, I just haven't yet as I've not needed to.

I can send you a message later if you like when the boys have gone to bed


----------



## urbanbumpkin

MildredM said:


> hehe! Get him on the forum. We will be gentle


I don't think I can inflict the absurdity we go to on anyone although he was the person who originally got me into coffee. He does say about this "I think I've created a monster"


----------



## urbanbumpkin

So does he goes for a an off the shelf one does the Motta 53 fit or is there another option?


----------



## ksuddell

ksuddell said:


> Thanks ashcroc. Wouldn't have thought of making mods to the grinder but found this https://www.shapeways.com/product/GB9H9Y8GY/bodum-bistro-burr-holder-0-8mm-finer-grind
> 
> Might give it a go for a tenner!


I've given this mod for the Bodum Bistro grinder a go. Ordered yesterday so will update the improvements (or not!) once received.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

joey24dirt said:


> A "mate"
> 
> I can help with all of the above if needed. The stock ones should be easy enough to make, I just haven't yet as I've not needed to.
> 
> I can send you a message later if you like when the boys have gone to bed


Hi Joey

That would be great if you could.


----------



## g.smith310

Just got mine and happy to join the club! Now just need to find a grinder


----------



## mctrials23

How much do your DTPs drip after you finish a shot? If I leave it there I can easily get another 15-20% of the weight through post shot dripping. e.g. 18g in 36g out then if I leave it under the portafilter that can go up to 44g or more


----------



## PPapa

mctrials23 said:


> How much do your DTPs drip after you finish a shot? If I leave it there I can easily get another 15-20% of the weight through post shot dripping. e.g. 18g in 36g out then if I leave it under the portafilter that can go up to 44g or more


What scales are you using? They might be lagging by a bit and the weight you see when you kill the pump might not be exactly what's in the cup.

I just stop the pump 1g prior to reaching target weight and then pull both scales and cup.


----------



## joey24dirt

Yeah only 1-2 g usually. With the solenoid mod you get less.


----------



## filthynines

I haven't checked in on this thread for a while now. Thought I'd pop by after some trouble I've been having.

For some reason whatever bean I used, on whatever grind size, would result in a fair bit of spray from the naked PF. My tamping has never been *that* bad so I was a little worried. I think, though, that the problem is that I've never descaled the machine in the 18 months I've had it.

So, last night I put a 50/50 distilled vinegar solution through. The shower screen seems to be pushing water through in a much more regular fashion. Beforehand I was concerned that there were points on the shower screen where water was not flowing, thus giving poor saturation on the puck and possibly giving rise to all manner of problems. The de-scale seems to have given rise to much better water flow, and I hope that will give better shots as a result. I'll report back!


----------



## filthynines

filthynines said:


> I haven't checked in on this thread for a while now. Thought I'd pop by after some trouble I've been having.
> 
> For some reason whatever bean I used, on whatever grind size, would result in a fair bit of spray from the naked PF. My tamping has never been *that* bad so I was a little worried. I think, though, that the problem is that I've never descaled the machine in the 18 months I've had it.
> 
> So, last night I put a 50/50 distilled vinegar solution through. The shower screen seems to be pushing water through in a much more regular fashion. Beforehand I was concerned that there were points on the shower screen where water was not flowing, thus giving poor saturation on the puck and possibly giving rise to all manner of problems. The de-scale seems to have given rise to much better water flow, and I hope that will give better shots as a result. I'll report back!


Interestingly there remained some spray, but it was otherwise a very good shot. I'll persevere and see if it is technique that is causing it.


----------



## PPapa

You can take out the screen and give it a clean?

I soak it into the Cafiza weekly.


----------



## filthynines

I remove the screen and clean it regularly. At first it wasn't so regular - but the sight I saw when I first took the screen off has meant it's far more regular now!


----------



## Mr Kirk

This has reminded me I need to clean and descale mine. Hopefully over the Easter weekend.


----------



## joey24dirt

The puly sachets work a treat I've found


----------



## ATZ

Has anyone found that if you turn the steam on, then off, allow a short purge and then start steaming your milk that it is much more powerful?


----------



## ATZ

ATZ said:


> Has anyone found that if you turn the steam on, then off, allow a short purge and then start steaming your milk that it is much more powerful?


Just me then?


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Just me then?


I would usually do this to get the excess water out. Run steam until the water is gone, then knock off while putting wand into milk, then turn steam on again.


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> I would usually do this to get the excess water out. Run steam until the water is gone, then knock off while putting wand into milk, then turn steam on again.


Yeah that's standard routine. I mean if you do this verses if you let the steam purge from the boiler inbetween or not. The steam appears stronger if you allow a small purge first.


----------



## joey24dirt

ATZ said:


> Yeah that's standard routine. I mean if you do this verses if you let the steam purge from the boiler inbetween or not. The steam appears stronger if you allow a small purge first.


Oh cool I'll have to give it a try.

Have you tried the double pre infusion that FBS tried out?


----------



## ATZ

joey24dirt said:


> Oh cool I'll have to give it a try.
> 
> Have you tried the double pre infusion that FBS tried out?


I haven't no! Details!? Kill the shot after pre infusion and go again?


----------



## davelittlewood

Hello,

Bought a DTP after 5 years of not having an espresso machine (had a Gaggia Baby Dose).

I've managed to get a good consistent extraction with my Krups grinder but my only gripe is that the filter basket keeps sticking in the head unit.

I un-latch the portafilter only to find the basket is stuck in the head....

Small issue really just annoying...









Dave


----------



## joey24dirt

davelittlewood said:


> Hello,
> 
> Bought a DTP after 5 years of not having an espresso machine (had a Gaggia Baby Dose).
> 
> I've managed to get a good consistent extraction with my Krups grinder but my only gripe is that the filter basket keeps sticking in the head unit.
> 
> I un-latch the portafilter only to find the basket is stuck in the head....
> 
> Small issue really just annoying...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave


Hi Dave great machines and you can get a lot out of them. What's your dose? Try lowering by 1g to give yourself a bit more head space and see how it goes. I take it you're using the dual wall baskets? I've never used mine so not sure how much they differ from the single wall


----------



## ajohn

davelittlewood said:


> Hello,
> 
> Bought a DTP after 5 years of not having an espresso machine (had a Gaggia Baby Dose).
> 
> I've managed to get a good consistent extraction with my Krups grinder but my only gripe is that the filter basket keeps sticking in the head unit.
> 
> I un-latch the portafilter only to find the basket is stuck in the head....
> 
> Small issue really just annoying...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave


New one on me - puck sticking yes but not the filter basket. You should need a spoon etc or basket removing tool to get the basket out or break finger nails if you try to use those.

You should be able to see this part in a groove a short way into the portafilter

https://sageappliances.co.uk/collections/bes870uk-parts/products/54mm-portafilter-spring?variant=48127943876

If it's a grind level problem I usually suggest using the razor tool to check the level is reasonable but don't try and remove a lot of grounds with it, just a skim. If your checking the weight of grounds with scales that can give you a starting point. Some one had problems with the puck rotating when it's used. I haven't had that on either the single or the double basket. Maybe I tamp harder than them.

:act-up:No one seems to take the razor tool seriously. I mention it as it would have saved me a lot of faffing about when I started using the machine. It's not the end of the story but provides a good start. On BE's and DTP's anyway. Not so good on the dual boiler.

If just the puck is sticking and extra fraction of a gram can stop that. On another Sage machine I have recently found that serious under filling can also cause the same problem. Go even lower and the end result is usually a very soggy messy puck.

John

-


----------



## Quenteagle

Do you all clean the tool stray after using the steam wand? It looks like there is a fair bit of condensation that leads to water at the bottom of the tray. I was wondering whether there is any way to limit the amount of condensation. I have checked the plastic/silicon thingy that goes straight to the main stray and it looks like it is now aligned (while that was not the case when I first used the DTP) but that only led to a small improvement.


----------



## khampal

Quenteagle said:


> Do you all clean the tool stray after using the steam wand? It looks like there is a fair bit of condensation that leads to water at the bottom of the tray. I was wondering whether there is any way to limit the amount of condensation. I have checked the plastic/silicon thingy that goes straight to the main stray and it looks like it is now aligned (while that was not the case when I first used the DTP) but that only led to a small improvement.


I removed my tool tray ages it ago, it just filled up with water all the time.


----------



## jonnycooper29

New to the game too, loving my relatively basic setup which fortunately got most of in the sale!


----------



## supertom44

davelittlewood said:


> Hello,
> 
> Bought a DTP after 5 years of not having an espresso machine (had a Gaggia Baby Dose).
> 
> I've managed to get a good consistent extraction with my Krups grinder but my only gripe is that the filter basket keeps sticking in the head unit.
> 
> I un-latch the portafilter only to find the basket is stuck in the head....
> 
> Small issue really just annoying...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dave


I have the same issue with the basket sticking from time to time. Not sure what causes it, I'm running at a 16gram dose.


----------



## matei72

Hi all... just bought a DTP and a Eureka Mignon mk II grinder. Last espresso machine was a FrancisFrancis X1, ages ago. I learned the basics on that limited machine, would occasionally pull a good shot but most of the time it was mediocre.

Spent some time dialling in the grind on the Eureka, it is powder-like, with a bit of grit (not sure of the setting as the numbers bear no relation to anything). I had wound it down to the burrs chirping and then backed off.

My dilemma is that if I grind it too fine, the espresso just dribbles/splatters out - yet still fills the cup rather quickly. I've tried coarsening up the grind - same thing.

Today I tried weighing the shot - went with 18g for the double (non-pressurised) basket, and 9 for the single. Made sure I packed tightly. Not sure what I'm missing.

Over the past day and a half, quality has improved however, getting better tasting shots but still coming through rather fast.

Any suggestions?


----------



## joey24dirt

matei72 said:


> Hi all... just bought a DTP and a Eureka Mignon mk II grinder. Last espresso machine was a FrancisFrancis X1, ages ago. I learned the basics on that limited machine, would occasionally pull a good shot but most of the time it was mediocre.
> 
> Spent some time dialling in the grind on the Eureka, it is powder-like, with a bit of grit (not sure of the setting as the numbers bear no relation to anything). I had wound it down to the burrs chirping and then backed off.
> 
> My dilemma is that if I grind it too fine, the espresso just dribbles/splatters out - yet still fills the cup rather quickly. I've tried coarsening up the grind - same thing.
> 
> Today I tried weighing the shot - went with 18g for the double (non-pressurised) basket, and 9 for the single. Made sure I packed tightly. Not sure what I'm missing.
> 
> Over the past day and a half, quality has improved however, getting better tasting shots but still coming through rather fast.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Distribution. I swear by using a miniwhisk with the DTP just to knock out any little clumps that would cause channelling.

Are you weighing your output? And how fast is fast? Have you timed it?


----------



## matei72

From the second the dial is turned, about 15-18 seconds.

The clumps are present, I've tried tamping down with them present thinking they'd just get crushed, but perhaps that is part of the problem.

With a whisk, do you grind into a receptacle or directly into the PF?


----------



## joey24dirt

matei72 said:


> From the second the dial is turned, about 15-18 seconds.
> 
> The clumps are present, I've tried tamping down with them present thinking they'd just get crushed, but perhaps that is part of the problem.
> 
> With a whisk, do you grind into a receptacle or directly into the PF?


Either really. It's easier if you have a portafilter hopper. You can get one from off the forum or make one from a Tesco spice/curry powder pot. They are the perfect size to fit in the basket. Just needs the height trimming down. If you don't have a whisk just use a cocktail stick or similar


----------



## matei72

Thanks - I'll try that out and let you know how I get on.

The quality is pretty good so far... just needs a little bit to get me to where I want to be.


----------



## matei72

So, tried moving the ground coffee around with a variety of implements, somewhat better but still a bit too quick. I'll try weighing the output as well - something I didn't try yesterday.


----------



## Miss Coffee

Hi, new DTP owner, just picked it up from John Lewis this week and hopefully I could join your club here!







. They have a clearance sale £279. It works beautifully and even the first shot was great! I'm upgrading from a Mr Coffee Barista Express which only have double wall baskets, hence this is the first time I used single wall baskets. It worked like a charm My grinder is very good so this is probably why it worked so well. It even made it possible to get acceptable drinks from the old machine. I just ordered more coffee beans to experiment with.


----------



## Jony

Very nice and enjoy.


----------



## PPapa

Welcome to the club!


----------



## dmreeceuk

new owner here too. Quick question, do you froth first then pull the espresso or extract the coffee then froth the milk?

Also I am using the delonghi KG79 with this mod





 anyone use this grinder? Is it any good. Seems good to me but I have nothing to compare it with.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Hi all, I've just received my DTP and trying to get to grips with it but have a few questions.

I'm using the double basket but I can't seem to get more than 15g in. I'm grinding quite fine (powder like) and tamping quite hard but any more and the coffee sticks to the shower screen and makes a right mess.

On my first couple of pulls I was getting really watery coffee with no crema at all. I then ground finer and it's better now with a half decent crema but I still can't get any more than 15g in the double basket. I'm also now using the WDT which has helped.

my extraction time is a lot longer than ideal though. It's like 50sec + and nothing comes out for at least the first 10-15sec.

What am I doing wrong? I want to get a nice honey like texture but it's still quite watery?

Also, how do I get the black plastic part out of the portafilter??

Thanks.


----------



## joey24dirt

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Hi all, I've just received my DTP and trying to get to grips with it but have a few questions.
> 
> I'm using the double basket but I can't seem to get more than 15g in. I'm grinding quite fine (powder like) and tamping quite hard but any more and the coffee sticks to the shower screen and makes a right mess.
> 
> On my first couple of pulls I was getting really watery coffee with no crema at all. I then ground finer and it's better now with a half decent crema but I still can't get any more than 15g in the double basket. I'm also now using the WDT which has helped.
> 
> my extraction time is a lot longer than ideal though. It's like 50sec + and nothing comes out for at least the first 10-15sec.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? I want to get a nice honey like texture but it's still quite watery?
> 
> Also, how do I get the black plastic part out of the portafilter??
> 
> Thanks.


Small flat screwdriver (or similar) to get the plastic out.

What beans do you have and when were they roasted?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

joey24dirt said:


> Small flat screwdriver (or similar) to get the plastic out.
> 
> What beans do you have and when were they roasted?


I got a bag from Starbucks today that we're roasted on the 15th Feb. I only grabbed them as I wanted to have a play and didn't have anything else except what I was using with my previous De'Longhi.


----------



## joey24dirt

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I got a bag from Starbucks today that we're roasted on the 15th Feb. I only grabbed them as I wanted to have a play and didn't have anything else except what I was using with my previous De'Longhi.


Your fighting a losing battle with those beans and a non pressurised basket. Need to be roasted fresh ideally. Have you looked for beans online? Some excellent recommendations on here


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

joey24dirt said:


> Your fighting a losing battle with those beans and a non pressurised basket. Need to be roasted fresh ideally. Have you looked for beans online? Some excellent recommendations on here


Ah I see. I'm still new to all this so where do you recommend? Where about a on the site are the recommendations?

cheers btw


----------



## MildredM

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Ah I see. I'm still new to all this so where do you recommend? Where about a on the site are the recommendations?
> 
> cheers btw


Check out the advertisers top and bottom of the forum pages. Refresh your page to see different ones! I can recommend Foundry for starters - very special, top notch roasters!


----------



## joey24dirt

MildredM said:


> Check out the advertisers top and bottom of the forum pages. Refresh your page to see different ones! I can recommend Foundry for starters - very special, top notch roasters!


Yup totally agree with this.

I've found the cherry cherry blend that coffee compass do to be very nice also.

Do you get the plastic out ok? I forgot to mention that it's easiest to remove the spouts and do it from the bottom.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Yeah that's what I done. Removed the spouts and then pushed through from the bottom.

Any idea why I'm only getting a max of 15g in my double PF?

I've read that many get at least 18g and more in the 54mm PF.


----------



## joey24dirt

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Yeah that's what I done. Removed the spouts and then pushed through from the bottom.
> 
> Any idea why I'm only getting a max of 15g in my double PF?
> 
> I've read that many get at least 18g and more in the 54mm PF.


What scales are you using? Could be reading wrong maybe.


----------



## pgarrish

joey24dirt said:


> Yup totally agree with this.
> 
> I've found the cherry cherry blend that coffee compass do to be very nice also.
> 
> Do you get the plastic out ok? I forgot to mention that it's easiest to remove the spouts and do it from the bottom.


What does removing the plastic do?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

I've just ordered some 0.01g scales from Amazon but atm I'm using some 0.1g kitchen scales. These:

Salter Digital Kitchen Weighing Scales - As Seen on The Great British Bake Off, Stylish Slim Design Electronic Cooking Scale for Home + Kitchen, Weigh Food 5000g + Liquids in ml and fl. Oz. - Black https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000ZNM51O/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_aNo3AbK275X0Q

I was thinking it was maybe down to the freshness of the beans maybe. Stupid I suppose but I thought maybe fresher beans may be slightly more dense lol

If I try and put more in the level is higher after tamping and it gunks up the shower screen etc


----------



## dmreeceuk

pgarrish said:


> What does removing the plastic do?


I was wondering too.


----------



## Banjoman

With my DTP I would struggle to get more than 16.5g in the pf, so not far different from you. To an extent, I think it depends on the beans and maybe their moisture, and how they are ground. I know others get 18g in the same pf, but I don't!

In addition to the beans recommended above, I would suggest trying Rave: e.g. Italian Job, Signature Blend, Chatswood Blend; Coffee Compass: e.g. Hill & Valley. See their websites.

Good luck and keep on posting how you're getting on.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Thanks. I've just ordered some Cherry Cherry from Compass Coffee that Joey recommended. I'll let you know how I get on.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

pgarrish said:


> What does removing the plastic do?





dmreeceuk said:


> I was wondering too.


It's just there to help retain heat I think.

I just run the hot water through the group head and into the PF prior to pulling a shot and it's fine.


----------



## joey24dirt

Yeah the plastic was meant for aiding the fast heat up times, but I don't think it made a difference. It's easier to clean the portafilter without that in also.


----------



## PPapa

Or just go naked (not out in the street!) and don't worry about that


----------



## Quenteagle

dmreeceuk said:


> new owner here too. Quick question, do you froth first then pull the espresso or extract the coffee then froth the milk?


I always do it this way:

1. Run hot water through the PF and the group head for a few sec to warm it up

2. Dry PF, put coffee in, level, tamper, etc.

3. Run steam until I hear the "honk honk honk" of the pump, then let it flush

4. Pour my coffee

5. Froth milk

Reason for 3. is to have the right water temperature in the PF. Someone in the forum did a few tests, when DTP is cold you only get 85 degrees if you extract your coffee directly, running steam first allows you to get 93 degrees afterwards.


----------



## pgarrish

PPapa said:


> Or just go naked (not out in the street!) and don't worry about that


I suspect the outrage would be the same


----------



## joey24dirt

You could also upgrade to IMS baskets to get more coffee in. Straight walls give you a little bit more room


----------



## pgarrish

joey24dirt said:


> You could also upgrade to IMS baskets to get more coffee in. Straight walls give you a little bit more room


Do you get a more even tamp as well?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Is anyone else finding the basket impossible to remove from the PF?

I almost broke a nail trying to get the double out earlier lmao

Seriously though, I have to use a flat head screwdriver to push it out. Is it supposed to be like that or is it cause it's new?


----------



## ashcroc

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Is anyone else finding the basket impossible to remove from the PF?
> 
> I almost broke a nail trying to get the double out earlier lmao
> 
> Seriously though, I have to use a flat head screwdriver to push it out. Is it supposed to be like that or is it cause it's new?


They can be a touch tricky especially if it's a ridged basket which is why you can get special removal tools (if you don't want to use the back of a teaspoon). I just went to a naked basket to remove the problem.


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> Do you get a more even tamp as well?


No that's still down to the operator lol.


----------



## joey24dirt

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Is anyone else finding the basket impossible to remove from the PF?
> 
> I almost broke a nail trying to get the double out earlier lmao
> 
> Seriously though, I have to use a flat head screwdriver to push it out. Is it supposed to be like that or is it cause it's new?


It will wear in time and become easier. You probably have a scratching/scraping sound when locking in the pf also. That's the basket spring if you didn't know already


----------



## pgarrish

joey24dirt said:


> No that's still down to the operator lol.


Na that can't be right, I need shiny kit...


----------



## joey24dirt

pgarrish said:


> Na that can't be right, I need shiny kit...


If you do get one, don't forget they need modifying slightly


----------



## matei72

Hi all... thanks for the helpful advice re. shot preparation, whisking etc. I have finally achieved the standard of shot I've been trying for since I first started with a home machine over 10 years ago. The DTP is a super little home espresso machine, but as others have pointed out - you need a good grinder and fresh beans as well!

After getting a feel for the grinder using meh supermarket beans, I bought several varieties from Union. That made all the difference in the world. No comparison, gotta be fresh!

Weighing the shot was helpful as well. For convenience's sake, I have my Eureka set on a timer, so I get enough for a single shot. If I'm going to use the double basking, I just hit it twice. There is a variation of course depending on the beans, but I've found so far that I've only needed a slight adjustment on the grinder dial.

Another thing I found was that I had been letting the shot run too long, which resulted in watery espresso. Now that the grind is dialled in and I'm accustomed to tamping (was putting way too much pressure) I'm getting shots that flow with a honey-like consistency, and a wonderful taste as well - the most important part!


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Good to hear!

I'm trying to get the honey-like consistency and just waiting for some fresh beans to arrive so hoping for good things.

My weak link though is the grinder. Using a crappy spin grinder atm which is causing clumping which isn't ideal. Not to mention the inconsistency etc...


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Just realised, I didn't get a little plate for the PF with my machine for backwashing??

Do they come with one?


----------



## jonnycooper29

I certainly did, mine was rubber, not plastic!


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

jonnycooper29 said:


> I certainly did, mine was rubber, not plastic!


Found it! Mines rubber too


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Okay so since having my DTP, I've noticed that too many shots are being choked.

I tried 2 doubles this morning before leaving for work and both choked. All I got coming from the PF was drips and dribbles. When I then remove the PF from the group head, there is a puddle of water sitting above the puck of coffee.

When i'm grinding the coffee it's coming out a bit clumpy and also warm to touch. I usethe WDT method to try and break up ththe clumps and even it out.

Maybe I'm grinding too fine? I'm grinding it so it's like powder I suppose, is this too much. Also I'm finding I only tamp lightly, any harder and it definately chokes.


----------



## joey24dirt

Too fine for sure. Slacken off a teeny bit


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

joey24dirt said:


> Too fine for sure. Slacken off a teeny bit


Cheers Joey. I'll give it a go.


----------



## IZ2018

I would recommend running water through the group head after each shot to rinse out residue.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

IZ2018 said:


> I would recommend running water through the group head after each shot to rinse out residue.


Thanks for the advice. I actually run water through the group head prior to pulling a shot and after.

I pull a shot, remove the PF, knock it out, clean the PF, then go back and run water through the group head and then wipe it with a wet cloth or kitchen towel.


----------



## jonnycooper29

I'm using pact house espresso at the moment, 2 weeks post roast, and getting a very nicely balanced espresso!

17g in, 36g out at ~28s, not bitter, not sour, but quite sickly.. does anyone else get this?

Could it be that it's a bit strong for me and I need to do 1:2.5 or 1:3? It doesn't taste too strong, tastes very nice in fact!


----------



## bear102

So... I'm a few months into having the DTP now and I feel like I've got it down to as good as I can with the grinder I have (Bodum Bistro). After some comments around beans from my first brew I was up a notch straight away in quality of espresso.

The single biggest impact I've had over quality of espresso is... grinding directly into the PF rather than allowing the grind falling into the hopper. I am able to tamp it much much better when its straight in and the quality of coffee produced is miles better than before.

Can anyone explain why?!

Currently flitting between North star and Rave coffee... I've made four doubles this morning just because its so good


----------



## gfunk03

hi folks, I need help lol! Just bought a Sage DTP and Smart Grinder Pro and am having so much trouble getting anything good out of them. I have tried grind settings 5 right up to 14 and i am either getting no liquid out at all or drips after a wait of about 20 secs (sometimes from only one side). I am weighing 17/18g in and using Pact beans that were roasted 2 weeks ago. My pucks are very watery and quite often have a layer of water lying at the top of them.

What am I doing wrong? Tamping too hard or unevenly? I honestly don't know what to try next in terms of grind size, even with trying that range of settings I haven't got anything better than drips.

Any advice would be gratefully received!


----------



## joey24dirt

gfunk03 said:


> hi folks, I need help lol! Just bought a Sage DTP and Smart Grinder Pro and am having so much trouble getting anything good out of them. I have tried grind settings 5 right up to 14 and i am either getting no liquid out at all or drips after a wait of about 20 secs (sometimes from only one side). I am weighing 17/18g in and using Pact beans that were roasted 2 weeks ago. My pucks are very watery and quite often have a layer of water lying at the top of them.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Tamping too hard or unevenly? I honestly don't know what to try next in terms of grind size, even with trying that range of settings I haven't got anything better than drips.
> 
> Any advice would be gratefully received!


Do you know you can remove the hopper and adjust the burrs also? Maybe take that back a step and try again.


----------



## jonnycooper29

gfunk03 said:


> hi folks, I need help lol! Just bought a Sage DTP and Smart Grinder Pro and am having so much trouble getting anything good out of them. I have tried grind settings 5 right up to 14 and i am either getting no liquid out at all or drips after a wait of about 20 secs (sometimes from only one side). I am weighing 17/18g in and using Pact beans that were roasted 2 weeks ago. My pucks are very watery and quite often have a layer of water lying at the top of them.
> 
> What am I doing wrong? Tamping too hard or unevenly? I honestly don't know what to try next in terms of grind size, even with trying that range of settings I haven't got anything better than drips.
> 
> Any advice would be gratefully received!


I've just finished two bags of pact with this exact setup, and I found myself on grind 16/17. I appreciate the machine might be slightly different, but try going coarser still!

As well as this, I found distribution key to good shots, and as joey told me, try using a mini whisk- it really does help!


----------



## gfunk03

joey24dirt said:


> Do you know you can remove the hopper and adjust the burrs also? Maybe take that back a step and try again.


Oh I thought it was just the previous model where you could adjust the burrs? Cheers Joey, I'll give that a go


----------



## gfunk03

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've just finished two bags of pact with this exact setup, and I found myself on grind 16/17. I appreciate the machine might be slightly different, but try going coarser still!
> 
> As well as this, I found distribution key to good shots, and as joey told me, try using a mini whisk- it really does help!


Cheers Jonny, I had read about a few people having to take the grind on it back quite low but am starting to think thats not the case! I'll notch it up a bit. Do you whisk it in the portafilter? or grind into a container?


----------



## jonnycooper29

gfunk03 said:


> Cheers Jonny, I had read about a few people having to take the grind on it back quite low but am starting to think thats not the case! I'll notch it up a bit. Do you whisk it in the portafilter? or grind into a container?












I've gone with another tip by joey- the Tesco herb pot cut down to size to fit in the pf whilst in the SGP holder. It helps with mess when grinding and I whisk with it still on, a few taps on a rubber mat, take it off then tamp.

Yeah a lot of people suggest they have it on setting 4-8, but I've just started some rave beans and I'm still only as low as 14..


----------



## joey24dirt

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've gone with another tip by joey- the Tesco herb pot cut down to size to fit in the pf whilst in the SGP holder. It helps with mess when grinding and I whisk with it still on, a few taps on a rubber mat, take it off then tamp.
> 
> Yeah a lot of people suggest they have it on setting 4-8, but I've just started some rave beans and I'm still only as low as 14..


Haha brilliant! Good work.


----------



## gfunk03

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've gone with another tip by joey- the Tesco herb pot cut down to size to fit in the pf whilst in the SGP holder. It helps with mess when grinding and I whisk with it still on, a few taps on a rubber mat, take it off then tamp.
> 
> Yeah a lot of people suggest they have it on setting 4-8, but I've just started some rave beans and I'm still only as low as 14..


Brlll tip cheers! I'll take a look online for a mini whisk too, this coffee making process is a lot more complicated than I thought lol!


----------



## jonnycooper29

gfunk03 said:


> Brlll tip cheers! I'll take a look online for a mini whisk too, this coffee making process is a lot more complicated than I thought lol!


I'm sure tescos sell one for a couple of pounds! I know exactly how you feel- it can even get frustrating at the beginning if you're not producing drinkable shots after splashing out lots of money, but trust me, it's worth it when you finally start understanding how to produce decent espresso.

I've also got a feeling the ongoing expenditure isn't going to stop any time soon, there's always a new gadget that I want!


----------



## ashcroc

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've also got a feeling the ongoing expenditure isn't going to stop any time soon, there's always a new gadget that I want!


You're just saying that because you haven't 'upgraded' to a Norvin funnel yet.


----------



## gfunk03

jonnycooper29 said:


> I'm sure tescos sell one for a couple of pounds! I know exactly how you feel- it can even get frustrating at the beginning if you're not producing drinkable shots after splashing out lots of money, but trust me, it's worth it when you finally start understanding how to produce decent espresso.
> 
> I've also got a feeling the ongoing expenditure isn't going to stop any time soon, there's always a new gadget that I want!


lol yeah know what you mean, I will keep going and hopefully get a good one soon. Then it's time to practise milk frothing lol!


----------



## dmreeceuk

ashcroc said:


> You're just saying that because you haven't 'upgraded' to a Norvin funnel yet.


These fit perfectly. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173173346812


----------



## jonnycooper29

@joey24 do you think it would help cutting off the top of the mini whisk? Meaning it can reach the corners better, if you know what I mean?


----------



## joey24dirt

jonnycooper29 said:


> @joey24 do you think it would help cutting off the top of the mini whisk? Meaning it can reach the corners better, if you know what I mean?


Like this....


----------



## jonnycooper29

joey24dirt said:


> Like this....


Exactly! Is that heat shrink holding it together

Did you notice a difference with it like that?


----------



## joey24dirt

jonnycooper29 said:


> Exactly! Is that heat shrink holding it together
> 
> Did you notice a difference with it like that?


Yeah heat shrink. I think I added hot glue to the centre also. Yup it's great for getting into the edges


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Right! I've had enough of using this crappy blade grinder! Using it, I just can't seem to get anything decent out of my DTP and I'm wasting more than I'm drinking...

What grinder would you advise and is best out of a Eureka Mignon Mk2 or Sage Smart Grinder Pro??

Cheers.

Also, I was wondering... Does the Pre-Infusion on the DTP effect the 25-35 sec shot time that people suggest?


----------



## joey24dirt

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Right! I've had enough of using this crappy blade grinder! Using it, I just can't seem to get anything decent out of my DTP and I'm wasting more than I'm drinking...
> 
> What grinder would you advise and is best out of a Eureka Mignon Mk2 or Sage Smart Grinder Pro??
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Also, I was wondering... Does the Pre-Infusion on the DTP effect the 25-35 sec shot time that people suggest?


I've always timed from turning the dial.

Grinder... the Sage is a nice thing to use, but the mignon will have better adjustment. Sage is also cheaper, I think.


----------



## Jony

From what I have read, few posts. The new Mignon look pretty good.


----------



## jonnycooper29

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> What grinder would you advise and is best out of a Eureka Mignon Mk2 or Sage Smart Grinder Pro??
> 
> L


I'm very happy with the sage grinder for the price I paid, £150 at John Lewis. I can make great espresso with it and most importantly (my girlfriends priorities are obviously all wrong here) it matches in style to the DTP so isn't such an eye sore in the kitchen!!

The only down side for me is that I can 100% see myself upgrading at some point in the next couple of years, due to it being good and not fantastic.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

It would be a 2nd hand Mk2, not the new Specialita models.

A used Mk2 is roughly the same price as a Sage SGP.

There is a used Mignon for sale in the classifieds atm...


----------



## joey24dirt

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> It would be a 2nd hand Mk2, not the new Specialita models.
> 
> A used Mk2 is roughly the same price as a Sage SGP.
> 
> There is a used Mignon for sale in the classifieds atm...


Do it


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

joey24dirt said:


> Do it


Done!


----------



## dmreeceuk

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> A used Mk2 is roughly the same price as a Sage SGP.
> 
> ..


I see this comment often, yet the Mk2s seem to go for £200+ and that one in fact went for £200 plus postage. The SGP is £150 which is substiantially cheaper. People say the SGP is good but not great. What does that mean? Is the coffee not as good. Does it not grind fine enough? Yet I see posts about people grinding too fine and backing off to get proper flow in the SGP. I have a KG79 modded to go finer. Seems to do the job to me apart from the timer doesn't go short enough so I just use a stopwatch. Would either give me better tasting coffee? Is it just the fineness of the grind that's the issue? Surely all these grinders do the same job as long as the grains are fine enough. The other variables such as roast, beans, time, tamp pressure etc have a greater effect than one grinder to another. Or am I missing something. I am only starting out on this journey!


----------



## joey24dirt

dmreeceuk said:


> I see this comment often, yet the Mk2s seem to go for £200+ and that one in fact went for £200 plus postage. The SGP is £150 which is substiantially cheaper. People say the SGP is good but not great. What does that mean? Is the coffee not as good. Does it not grind fine enough? Yet I see posts about people grinding too fine and backing off to get proper flow in the SGP. I have a KG79 modded to go finer. Seems to do the job to me apart from the timer doesn't go short enough so I just use a stopwatch. Would either give me better tasting coffee? Is it just the fineness of the grind that's the issue? Surely all these grinders do the same job as long as the grains are fine enough. The other variables such as roast, beans, time, tamp pressure etc have a greater effect than one grinder to another. Or am I missing something. I am only starting out on this journey!


I think it's grind speed and the temperature of the burrs also. I'm not that clued up with grinders to be fair.


----------



## jonnycooper29

dmreeceuk said:


> I see this comment often, yet the Mk2s seem to go for £200+ and that one in fact went for £200 plus postage. The SGP is £150 which is substiantially cheaper. People say the SGP is good but not great. What does that mean? Is the coffee not as good. Does it not grind fine enough? Yet I see posts about people grinding too fine and backing off to get proper flow in the SGP. I have a KG79 modded to go finer. Seems to do the job to me apart from the timer doesn't go short enough so I just use a stopwatch. Would either give me better tasting coffee? Is it just the fineness of the grind that's the issue? Surely all these grinders do the same job as long as the grains are fine enough. The other variables such as roast, beans, time, tamp pressure etc have a greater effect than one grinder to another. Or am I missing something. I am only starting out on this journey!


I too am only starting out, but I'd say that a big difference by the sounds of it is build quality, the SGP doesn't feel particularly robust and with the lower cost, is no doubt using lower quality components!

Other than that, the size of the burrs, speed of he motor, consistency of grind etc


----------



## ashcroc

dmreeceuk said:


> I see this comment often, yet the Mk2s seem to go for £200+ and that one in fact went for £200 plus postage. The SGP is £150 which is substiantially cheaper. People say the SGP is good but not great. What does that mean? Is the coffee not as good. Does it not grind fine enough? Yet I see posts about people grinding too fine and backing off to get proper flow in the SGP. I have a KG79 modded to go finer. Seems to do the job to me apart from the timer doesn't go short enough so I just use a stopwatch. Would either give me better tasting coffee? Is it just the fineness of the grind that's the issue? Surely all these grinders do the same job as long as the grains are fine enough. The other variables such as roast, beans, time, tamp pressure etc have a greater effect than one grinder to another. Or am I missing something. I am only starting out on this journey!


Think sgp has dropped it's price fairly recently & is still about £200 from the likes of curries (unless they have a sale on) so I think that's where the comments of a 2nd hand mk2 mignon costing about the same come from.

The main difference grind quality wise is the sgp is stepped adjustment whereas the mignon is stepless. Both should be capable of grinding too fine but with an sgp you may find your perfect grind is between steps so you have no choice but to adjust dose or tamp pressure to compensate.


----------



## dmreeceuk

ashcroc said:


> Think sgp has dropped it's price fairly recently & is still about £200 from the likes of curries (unless they have a sale on) so I think that's where the comments of a 2nd hand mk2 mignon costing about the same come from.
> 
> The main difference grind quality wise is the sgp is stepped adjustment whereas the mignon is stepless. Both should be capable of grinding too fine but with an sgp you may find your perfect grind is between steps so you have no choice but to adjust dose or tamp pressure to compensate.


Just learning about this. Is it really that sensitive to differences in step size? The SGP has 30 settings purely for espresso. Given the particle size difference we must be talking microns difference between each one. It also has an internal adjustment to extend further. I am really struggling to work out why paying more for a grinder helps unless it's just going to last longer because it's better built. Can you really tell the difference in a blind taste test on what grinder was used if they both push out the same particle size distribution.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

I chose the Mignon Mk2 mainly out of build quality. Every review I've watched and read says it's built like a tank, albeit a kitchen friendly sized tank







Also that fact that it's consistent and step less.

The pricing that I referenced to was £200 for the black model of the Sage SGP. My DTP is black so I would obviously have to get the SGP in Black







, hence the price comparison.


----------



## joey24dirt

dmreeceuk said:


> Just learning about this. Is it really that sensitive to differences in step size? The SGP has 30 settings purely for espresso. Given the particle size difference we must be talking microns difference between each one. It also has an internal adjustment to extend further. I am really struggling to work out why paying more for a grinder helps unless it's just going to last longer because it's better built. Can you really tell the difference in a blind taste test on what grinder was used if they both push out the same particle size distribution.


I went from a sage up to a super jolly and, even with my limited tasting palette, I noticed an improvement.


----------



## dmreeceuk

Interesting. I wonder if there are other factors like heating the beans or squishing them rather than fracturing. It would be interesting to look in a microscope to see the actual difference to the grinds.


----------



## mctrials23

How wet should the steam from the wand be when it comes out. It seems mine is quite wet and from doing a bit of reading it shouldn't be. Is this just a symptom of a cheapish espresso machine or is something likely to be going wrong?


----------



## joey24dirt

mctrials23 said:


> How wet should the steam from the wand be when it comes out. It seems mine is quite wet and from doing a bit of reading it shouldn't be. Is this just a symptom of a cheapish espresso machine or is something likely to be going wrong?


Do you purge the steam wand before steaming the milk? I think they do run a little damp but it's nothing major


----------



## mctrials23

I turn the steam wand on until it comes up to 100% power and then very briefly turn it off to get the jug under and then it's back on again. I honestly have no reference point for how wet the steam should be but if you point it at the drip tray and hit the metal it's obviously wetting it.


----------



## pgarrish

mctrials23 said:


> I turn the steam wand on until it comes up to 100% power and then very briefly turn it off to get the jug under and then it's back on again. I honestly have no reference point for how wet the steam should be but if you point it at the drip tray and hit the metal it's obviously wetting it.


That's how the manual says to do it


----------



## prezes

Just wanted to say hi . Finished reading the whole thread which took around a week lol!

So helpful and a lot of info on the dtp.

I've recently upgraded from Delonghi dedica and got it paired with sgp. Happy with the results in general but still so much room for improvement !


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

prezes said:


> Just wanted to say hi . Finished reading the whole thread which took around a week lol!
> 
> So helpful and a lot of info on the dtp.
> 
> I've recently upgraded from Delonghi dedica and got it paired with sgp. Happy with the results in general but still so much room for improvement !


Welcome! I've only had mine for a few weeks now and I'm still learning myself with plenty of room for improvement also. It's all part of the fun though in my book!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Hi there, quick question if I may: Where can I buy compatible spare group gaskets for the DTP from?

I Googled but couldn't find much.


----------



## joey24dirt

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi there, quick question if I may: Where can I buy compatible spare group gaskets for the DTP from?
> 
> I Googled but couldn't find much.


As far as I know it's just sage who do them


----------



## jonnycooper29

Decided I'd give up on purely aiming for a 1:2 brew ratio for now whilst using the Italian job rave beans..

Started to aim for around 1:3, then adjusted grind on flavour, pulled 17g->48g at 34 seconds. Flavour was much more balanced and tasted much better! Now that I've got a good balanced shot that I'm able to replicate, im not sure if this bean is quite for me, so I'm going to order some various difference beans in the next week or so!

I'm even starting to get hang of the art side of things too!


----------



## eagerlearner

Just a bump as I'm relatively new ,just bought @joey24dirt SGP







I know he's upgraded but hoping to learn lots here on the thread.

I'm looking at buying a counter friendly size grinder that's good quality and will last a long time. I think the Mazzer Super Jolie is what comes up again and again. But. On Amazon etc I see others, as someone who only has lattes, surely one for sub £70 would do the trick?


----------



## jonnycooper29

eagerlearner said:


> Just a bump as I'm relatively new ,just bought @joey24dirt SGP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know he's upgraded but hoping to learn lots here on the thread.
> 
> I'm looking at buying a counter friendly size grinder that's good quality and will last a long time. I think the Mazzer Super Jolie is what comes up again and again. But. On Amazon etc I see others, as someone who only has lattes, surely one for sub £70 would do the trick?


Do you mean SGP or DTP? I know joey was selling his DTP.

Personally, I would go for the Mazzer! I bought a new DTP recently with a new SGP and I already know that I'll need to upgrade in the not too distant future.

I mainly drink espressos or flat whites, and although you drink lattes, the machine you've got makes espressos, so you need a grinder that will perform for espresso grind.

In terms of counter size, the SGP is great, it also looks great along side the DTP, and if you aren't the sort of person that likes to upgrade a lot, it'll probably do the job fine. But for a similar price you could grab yourself a far superior machine second hand on the forum!


----------



## eagerlearner

Thank you Jonny, I've got my eye on a mazzer fear not, just wondered if it won't be wasted on us... Yes I meant DTP! It's a lovely machine, much more automated than I'm used to that's for sure.

I'll see if get the mazzer, just need to know can I get any mazzer hopper to fit ,ie could have a very small one (from the mazzer mini) rather than 1.5l?

If I see an SGP for reasonable cost might get that.

Yeah I'm always going to be a latte drinker, prefer a long drink for sure.


----------



## gfunk03

Hi folks, I posted on here a few weeks back and got some great advice (Motta tamper, mini whisk, spice pot etc) and I think I'm finally getting somewhere with the DTP and Sage Grinder Pro. I am doing 17g in, 34g out in about 30 - 35 seconds, does this sound about right? I know it all depends on taste, and it does taste good to me but I wouldn't say I have the most refined palate yet when it comes to espresso lol!

This might be a really stupid question but when I'm aiming for 36g out does that mean I should turn the dial myself to stop the machine t get 36g (which is what I have been doing) or should I be aiming for 36g to be the point where the machine stops itself (hope that means sense!)


----------



## joey24dirt

gfunk03 said:


> Hi folks, I posted on here a few weeks back and got some great advice (Motta tamper, mini whisk, spice pot etc) and I think I'm finally getting somewhere with the DTP and Sage Grinder Pro. I am doing 17g in, 34g out in about 30 - 35 seconds, does this sound about right? I know it all depends on taste, and it does taste good to me but I wouldn't say I have the most refined palate yet when it comes to espresso lol!
> 
> This might be a really stupid question but when I'm aiming for 36g out does that mean I should turn the dial myself to stop the machine t get 36g (which is what I have been doing) or should I be aiming for 36g to be the point where the machine stops itself (hope that means sense!)


Keep doing what you are doing  the sage cuts out after a minute of shot pulling, so you need to cut it when you are. I personally concentrated on the weight like you have mentioned and I'd float between 30-40seconds.


----------



## gfunk03

joey24dirt said:


> Keep doing what you are doing  the sage cuts out after a minute of shot pulling, so you need to cut it when you are. I personally concentrated on the weight like you have mentioned and I'd float between 30-40seconds.


Cheers Joey, good to know I'm on the right lines lol! Now to try and master milk frothing, I was watching your video, it looks great.

Have you any bean recommendations? I've just been using Pact house espresso, it's ok but not amazing.


----------



## joey24dirt

I'd give coffee compass cherry cherry a blast or foundry arcangel if you can get hold of it.

DTPs are great for steaming although a little slow. Just takes practice


----------



## gfunk03

joey24dirt said:


> I'd give coffee compass cherry cherry a blast or foundry arcangel if you can get hold of it.
> 
> DTPs are great for steaming although a little slow. Just takes practice


Cheers Joey! I'll give it a go. I am enjoying the Sage Grinder Pro but I got a bit carried away and pre ordered a Niche last night! I am mostly single dosing so I think it would be perfect for me. The reviews so far look excellent too.

Do you ever use the single basket on your DTP? I haven't tried it yet and had read it wasn't great.


----------



## joey24dirt

gfunk03 said:


> Cheers Joey! I'll give it a go. I am enjoying the Sage Grinder Pro but I got a bit carried away and pre ordered a Niche last night! I am mostly single dosing so I think it would be perfect for me. The reviews so far look excellent too.
> 
> Do you ever use the single basket on your DTP? I haven't tried it yet and had read it wasn't great.


No I never bothered with it. Meant to be a chew on using them but may be slightly easier than a 58mm basket. Give it a try 

I don't have my DTP anymore so I feel like a fraud posting here now haha


----------



## gfunk03

joey24dirt said:


> No I never bothered with it. Meant to be a chew on using them but may be slightly easier than a 58mm basket. Give it a try
> 
> I don't have my DTP anymore so I feel like a fraud posting here now haha


lol Joey, what do you have now?


----------



## joey24dirt

gfunk03 said:


> lol Joey, what do you have now?


I got offered a nuova simonelli Oscar and couldn't turn it down


----------



## Banjoman

Nobody asked(!) but if any DTP users out there are looking for some darker roasts to try the DTP on ... (By the way the reason I'm exploring darker roasts with the DTP is that I find I just don't seem to be able to get the depth of flavour I'm looking for from lighter roasts. This could be for one or more of a few reasons: the DTP finds it easier to extract flavour from darker roasts (they are physically easier (I believe) to extract flavour from than lighter roasts); my espresso-brewing skills aren't up to scratch; I just actually prefer darker roasts.)

Anyway, back to those darker roasts - I tried Coffee Compass - Hill & Valley and found I got a rich coffee flavour that I hadn't yet experienced with the DTP. I almost ordered some more, but while on the Coffee Compass website noticed that their Mahogany Roast Jampit Hit was also a darker roast, so ordered that instead. Just tried it today (day 12 of the roast - I was away last week when it arrived so was unable t try it any sooner). It is so delicious. My palate isn't experienced enough to pick out all the flavour notes. I would just describe it as a bit chocolatey and very smooth. For the record, I used 17g in and 34g out. I'm not yet properly dialled in, I had it too fine with nearly a 2 minute brew(!) but it still tasted super smooth to me. I then diluted the espresso 1:2 with hot water from the DTP, for a long black.

Anyway, that's my recommendation fwiw, particularly to DTP users who may be struggling to get some depth to the flavour of your espressos.


----------



## Nevlol

First post!

I'm looking to upgrade to the DTP. Can I attach a magnetic timer like this to the front of the machine to help with timing shots or will it just fall off?


----------



## joey24dirt

Nevlol said:


> First post!
> 
> I'm looking to upgrade to the DTP. Can I attach a magnetic timer like this to the front of the machine to help with timing shots or will it just fall off?


Should be fine. I've had magnetic timers on mine and they stuck ok.


----------



## Nevlol

Thank you. Good to know!

I'm currently using a non-pressurised basket Delonghi Dedica with a Dose Control Pro hence the urge to upgrade.

How is the pairing of the DCP with DTP? Am I advised to wait and upgrade both or will the DTP + DCP still be a significant upgrade for me?


----------



## joey24dirt

Nevlol said:


> Thank you. Good to know!
> 
> I'm currently using a non-pressurised basket Delonghi Dedica with a Dose Control Pro hence the urge to upgrade.
> 
> How is the pairing of the DCP with DTP? Am I advised to wait and upgrade both or will the DTP + DCP still be a significant upgrade for me?


The DTP will give you better temp stability and it's just feels nicer to use. I used to have a delonghi and when I moved to the DTP it was a great choice. You can also get the milk perfect using the DTP if that's your thing.


----------



## Nevlol

joey24dirt said:


> The DTP will give you better temp stability and it's just feels nicer to use. I used to have a delonghi and when I moved to the DTP it was a great choice. You can also get the milk perfect using the DTP if that's your thing.


Thanks. So worth the upgrade even with a humble DCP?


----------



## Miss Coffee

I just realise my DTP came with a back flush disk. Can you really back flush this machine?


----------



## ashcroc

Miss Coffee said:


> I just realise my DTP came with a back flush disk. Can you really back flush this machine?


Kind of. There's a hole in the disc that the sage tablet covers until it dissolves. No idea how for into system it'll go without an OPV but it'll at least rinse off the shower screen & maybe the dispersion plate behind it.


----------



## mctrials23

I found that it didn't do much to clear the gunk behind the shower screen on the DTP whereas on the DB a blind disk flush clears pretty much everything out.


----------



## MC1

Hi all, new member and relatively new DTP owner here. Finding this thread and the whole forum in general very useful and informative.

Currently using a Hario Mini Mill Plus as it tends to be only myself that drinks coffee as my girlfriend hates the stuff! However, when I have guests round I find that the hand grinder is just too slow. For this reason I am looking for a used entry level electric grinder, most likely made by Sage. I understand that these are far inferior to Mazzer etc but my budget won't stretch that far. If anyone has one for sale, please let me know









Also, I thought I would share with you my tamper that is made out of a bicycle wheel hub! I am a keen mountain biker so this combines the two hobbies!

Cheers.


----------



## mctrials23

Firstly, that tamper is pretty awesome!

I will be selling a Sage SGP in the next month or so but grinders are likely to flood the classified in the next few months due to the shipping (hopefully) of the Niche grinder which I think probably at least 100 of the forum members have backed. This should give you a lot of options on second hand grinders of all makes and models. How much are you looking to spend?


----------



## MC1

mctrials23 said:


> Firstly, that tamper is pretty awesome!
> 
> I will be selling a Sage SGP in the next month or so but grinders are likely to flood the classified in the next few months due to the shipping (hopefully) of the Niche grinder which I think probably at least 100 of the forum members have backed. This should give you a lot of options on second hand grinders of all makes and models. How much are you looking to spend?


Thanks! I've actually since bought a SGP from a forum member. Got delivered today but typically it was in the hour or so I had to pop out for, will be picking it up from the post office later! Thanks for the reply though.


----------



## supertom44

Hey all,

Recently every shot I make when I release the portafilter there is a pop and some ground coffee/sludge spills over the portafilter and there are loads of grounds stuck to the showerscreen.

I'm only dosing 16 grams, the only thing I can think of is that the beans are quite fresh 5-day post roast.

Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Recently every shot I make when I release the portafilter there is a pop and some ground coffee/sludge spills over the portafilter and there are loads of grounds stuck to the showerscreen.
> 
> I'm only dosing 16 grams, the only thing I can think of is that the beans are quite fresh 5-day post roast.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue?


How soon after are you removing the portafilter? Straight away?


----------



## oceanrat88

Hey DTP folk,

Advice sought - I am getting a lot of channelling which is ruining my shots. My DTP is paired with a Eureka Specialita and I'm using the double shot single wall basket. I've watched countless youtube videos on dosing and tamping etc but I still can't exactly figure out why.

Some thoughts....

The channels do tend to be in the same place, there are normally two to three of them (with always one large channel), as if a jet of water has pushed straight down through the coffee puck. I have tried under dosing, so the distance between the shower screen and the puck is increased, and this doesn't seem to work. I don't consistently weigh the shots but typically would end up with about 12-14g, which when reading what other people put is way less than the 16g or so that some people seem to get in. If I try and put in 16g there is not enough space, and when I take off the portafilter there is coffee all over the shower head etc, suggesting that this was way too much! Both coarser and finer grinding also not helping.

I grind coffee, tamp and put it in the grouphead and then steam milk, but possibly if the pick is sat there whilst steaming, water may go in when the temp changes. Should I steam milk then grind?

If anyone can give me some advice to work on I'll be a very happy brewer!


----------



## PPapa

What's your puck preparation like? What is your output weight and brew time (from switching on the pump to killing it)?

The double basket (single wall) can easily hold 18g - might be a bit too coarse grind?


----------



## cloughy

oceanrat88 said:


> Hey DTP folk,
> 
> Advice sought - I am getting a lot of channelling which is ruining my shots. My DTP is paired with a Eureka Specialita and I'm using the double shot single wall basket. I've watched countless youtube videos on dosing and tamping etc but I still can't exactly figure out why.
> 
> Some thoughts....
> 
> The channels do tend to be in the same place, there are normally two to three of them (with always one large channel), as if a jet of water has pushed straight down through the coffee puck. I have tried under dosing, so the distance between the shower screen and the puck is increased, and this doesn't seem to work. I don't consistently weigh the shots but typically would end up with about 12-14g, which when reading what other people put is way less than the 16g or so that some people seem to get in. If I try and put in 16g there is not enough space, and when I take off the portafilter there is coffee all over the shower head etc, suggesting that this was way too much! Both coarser and finer grinding also not helping.
> 
> I grind coffee, tamp and put it in the grouphead and then steam milk, but possibly if the pick is sat there whilst steaming, water may go in when the temp changes. Should I steam milk then grind?
> 
> If anyone can give me some advice to work on I'll be a very happy brewer!


5p on top of the grind in the PF will help accurately work out the max amount you can get in the basket without touching the screen. Weighing everytime is a must to achieve consistency.

Also how are you distributing the grind in the PF? Distribution tools help with this, I simple toothpick for example will help break up clumps


----------



## oceanrat88

I've used a few things for distribution, chopsticks thermometers spoon handles and currently I'm using the skin between index and thumb (saw this on YT!) If a 5p is all the distance it needs possibly I am underdosing - I'll try bringing it right up. I'll weight that and let you know how much it comes to.

PPapa (I'm also in Glasgow, hi!), I've tried going all the way to the finest possible settings on the Eureka, where the grinds only come out very slowly, still that doesn't help. Puck prep as above (if that answers). Output I aim for 1:2 recipe to keep it simple, and the timing can be very inconsistent.


----------



## cloughy

also how old are your beans? inconsistencies can also be down to how old/new the beans are.

I've tried to reduce this by freezing 200g bags that have been rested 10 days then once I'm dialled in each bag is pretty consistent


----------



## supertom44

joey24dirt said:


> How soon after are you removing the portafilter? Straight away?


Hey Joey, thanks for the reply.

I left it for at least 30 seconds and this was the result on the shower screen.


----------



## Banjoman

^^^Not sure if this could cause the problem, but have you tried taking the shower screen off to clean it at all? (Just wondering if it's possible that a bunged up shower screen could cause a pressure build up somehow.)


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> Hey Joey, thanks for the reply.
> 
> I left it for at least 30 seconds and this was the result on the shower screen.
> View attachment 35645


Good call taking a photo. Have you switched to a darker, oily bean?


----------



## supertom44

I cleaned the shower screen at the weekend, part of my weekly cleaning schedule now.

I am trying new beans which are a darker roast than what I'd normally go for, should have said that in my first post sorry.


----------



## joey24dirt

supertom44 said:


> I cleaned the shower screen at the weekend, part of my weekly cleaning schedule now.
> 
> I am trying new beans which are a darker roast than what I'd normally go for, should have said that in my first post sorry.


No worries dude. That could be it. I have some 'darker than normal' beans and they make a right mess


----------



## supertom44

Ahhh, I didn't realise the darker roast could make such a difference.

Cheers.


----------



## Banjoman

^^^Just as a comparison, I was using darker roasts regularly in my DTP. I also used 16g (so quite similar so far







). I always used to wait until at least 7 days post roast date. I never got any problems like you're having. Perhaps it is the beans and maybe you just need to give them a few days, but I had no idea using them on the early side could have such a dramatic effect. See how they are after a few more days. If there's no improvement, it may not be the beans!


----------



## frothycoffeeman

Hi there.

Been a DTP owner since 2016. Took a year out of the whole coffee/espresso world due to work,but got back into it about a month ago. Still using the DTP/ SGP but looking into a new grinder machine at some point next year.

















Sideways photo ftw, but using my phone and it won't allow me to rotate correct ?.


----------



## adam85

MC1 said:


> Hi all, new member and relatively new DTP owner here. Finding this thread and the whole forum in general very useful and informative.
> 
> Currently using a Hario Mini Mill Plus as it tends to be only myself that drinks coffee as my girlfriend hates the stuff! However, when I have guests round I find that the hand grinder is just too slow. For this reason I am looking for a used entry level electric grinder, most likely made by Sage. I understand that these are far inferior to Mazzer etc but my budget won't stretch that far. If anyone has one for sale, please let me know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I thought I would share with you my tamper that is made out of a bicycle wheel hub! I am a keen mountain biker so this combines the two hobbies!
> 
> Cheers.


Hey MC1 -- just a quick question to you (or anyone, who may be able to help?)...

... I've been bought the same coffee grinder as you - Hario Mini Mill - but have very little experience / skill with it.

There are times that I think I must be grinding it too fine, as when I place it into the DTP it either doesn't drip out - or takes a crazily long time...

I know that you can amend the grinder's settings; so could I ask how 'fine' do you have it set at? I.e. how many clicks away from the maximum right hand turn?

Really struggling at the moment to have the DTP provide a 'honey drip' style expresso! #annoyed!

Thanks in advance for any advice!


----------



## MC1

adam85 said:


> Hey MC1 -- just a quick question to you (or anyone, who may be able to help?)...
> 
> ... I've been bought the same coffee grinder as you - Hario Mini Mill - but have very little experience / skill with it.
> 
> There are times that I think I must be grinding it too fine, as when I place it into the DTP it either doesn't drip out - or takes a crazily long time...
> 
> I know that you can amend the grinder's settings; so could I ask how 'fine' do you have it set at? I.e. how many clicks away from the maximum right hand turn?
> 
> Really struggling at the moment to have the DTP provide a 'honey drip' style expresso! #annoyed!
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice!


Hi Mate,

I've just checked and mine was set 4 clicks away from the maximum right hand turn. Although this varied maybe +/- 2 clicks depending on the bean, ambient temperature, things like that. The Mini Mill isn't the most consistent grinder but I found it good for when only 1 or 2 shots were going to be pulled such as when I was making a drink for myself. However, manufacturing tolerances may mean that your grinders optimum setting is different to mine.

Not sure how new you are to the coffee world so forgive me if this is stating the obvious but it's also worth paying attention to the amount of coffee you're putting into the single wall basket - too much and you'll choke the machine, too little and the espresso will come out like water.

Tamping also has an effect on the flow of espresso but the impact is much less than an incorrect grind. I'm lead to understand that 30lb of pressure (off the top of my head, might be wrong) is what most people go by but this is quite hard to achieve without a calibrated tamper so a good firm tamp until you feel the puck 'pushing back' is all that's needed. As long as you feel like you apply the same pressure (ish) every tamp, you'll stay consistent and can adjust grind etc accordingly.

Hope this helped at least a little!

Cheers.


----------



## MWJB

adam85 said:


> Really struggling at the moment to have the DTP provide a 'honey drip' style expresso! #annoyed!
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice!


Don't worry so much about this, focus on how the shot tastes & brew ratio.

Tasty pours can be pretty pours too, but they don't have to be pretty to be tasty.


----------



## adam85

MC1 said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> I've just checked and mine was set 4 clicks away from the maximum right hand turn. Although this varied maybe +/- 2 clicks depending on the bean, ambient temperature, things like that. The Mini Mill isn't the most consistent grinder but I found it good for when only 1 or 2 shots were going to be pulled such as when I was making a drink for myself. However, manufacturing tolerances may mean that your grinders optimum setting is different to mine.
> 
> Not sure how new you are to the coffee world so forgive me if this is stating the obvious but it's also worth paying attention to the amount of coffee you're putting into the single wall basket - too much and you'll choke the machine, too little and the espresso will come out like water.
> 
> Tamping also has an effect on the flow of espresso but the impact is much less than an incorrect grind. I'm lead to understand that 30lb of pressure (off the top of my head, might be wrong) is what most people go by but this is quite hard to achieve without a calibrated tamper so a good firm tamp until you feel the puck 'pushing back' is all that's needed. As long as you feel like you apply the same pressure (ish) every tamp, you'll stay consistent and can adjust grind etc accordingly.
> 
> Hope this helped at least a little!
> 
> Cheers.


Thank you.

TBH I kind of wish I was a 'newbie', but have had this machine since the start of the year!! That said, right or wrong, for ease I have always been using a pre ground Lavazza ... which has provided fairly okay coffee. Have been bought fresh beans from a local company, so now looking to make the most from them..

I've got a fairly good idea for weight - or can only assume so based on what I've read, how the Lavazza comes out... but now with the better coffee, and moving away from the dual layer filter, seem to have a few things wrong.

First attempt with the grind was probably too fine - as nothing came out of the machine and, once taken off, just had risen grind. Second was okay - but came out of the machine too quickly / thin, albeit it tasted okay and I could tell the tastes listed with the coffee.

I'll keep trying chaps - thanks for your help.


----------



## adam85

Will do - thank you.

I think I jumped on the honey drip style, from some of the videos I've seen! (and what I've seen at cafes.... which I should remember have machines 20x more expensive than this thing!!)


----------



## MC1

Fair enough, just keep messing around and experimenting, that's what I did, takes a while but you'll get there in the end. Once you get everything dialled in you'll find the honey drip pour will start to appear







you'll also find that the used puck comes out of the basket nice and easily.


----------



## FuzzyFeltDeath

Not sure if I've seen it posted, but Hughes have the machine on for £249 but they also have £15 off in voucher form. Lakeland price matched including the voucher Monday but on going to order today a different person has refused. Will update if I get clarification of if they will honour or not. Waiting to see if John Lewis will price match the discount price, if they do it's possible to buy another 2 years on top of the original 2 year warranty for £15 to better Lakeland.


----------



## DavecUK

FuzzyFeltDeath said:


> Not sure if I've seen it posted, but Hughes have the machine on for £249 but they also have £15 off in voucher form. Lakeland price matched including the voucher Monday but on going to order today a different person has refused. Will update if I get clarification of if they will honour or not. Waiting to see if John Lewis will price match the discount price, if they do it's possible to buy another 2 years on top of the original 2 year warranty for £15 to better Lakeland.


I can see you are the retailers friend.....


----------



## FuzzyFeltDeath

Complained to Lakeland, and they've just said it was a mistake and won't honour it, bit of a pain really.

John Lewis replied and they will indeed price match the £234, so went for that. Ended up adding the £15 for the 4 year warranty (2 extra yrs) as previous experiences with John Lewis have been very good, even difficult warranty issues have always been sorted with ease and with excellent results.


----------



## FuzzyFeltDeath

FuzzyFeltDeath said:


> Complained to Lakeland, and they've just said it was a mistake and won't honour it, bit of a pain really.
> 
> John Lewis replied and they will indeed price match the £234, so went for that. Ended up adding the £15 for the 4 year warranty (2 extra yrs) as previous experiences with John Lewis have been very good, even difficult warranty issues have always been sorted with ease and with excellent results.


Just to correct myself, the 2 year extra warranty doesn't stack, it's just a warranty with more coverage, not sure it's worth the £15 to be honest as most will have it on house insurance.

Question to everyone with this machine, is the extra years warranty via Lakeland worth the £15 more or are the machines that reliable it's worth not bothering?


----------



## cloughy

FuzzyFeltDeath said:


> Just to correct myself, the 2 year extra warranty doesn't stack, it's just a warranty with more coverage, not sure it's worth the £15 to be honest as most will have it on house insurance.
> 
> Question to everyone with this machine, is the extra years warranty via Lakeland worth the £15 more or are the machines that reliable it's worth not bothering?


I would say so, I've had pretty good experience with Lakeland and sage are notoriously difficult to repair so I would say extra year would be worth it


----------



## joey24dirt

I hardly ever descaled mine, I messed about with it loads and installed loads of mods, and it never skipped a beat once. I could've just been lucky of course


----------



## FuzzyFeltDeath

Just gave the Lakeland store a call and they'll price match with the £15 off with no issue, will pick that up today!


----------



## FuzzyFeltDeath

Guys, before the 'real' beans arrive tomorrow I'm going have some testing with cheap beans.

Am I right in thinking from what I've read it's the single walled basket that needs to be used and not the dual wall one?

Hand grinder for until Niche arrives in October.


----------



## MWJB

FuzzyFeltDeath said:


> Guys, before the 'real' beans arrive tomorrow I'm going have some testing with cheap beans.
> 
> Am I right in thinking from what I've read it's the single walled basket that needs to be used and not the dual wall one?
> 
> Hand grinder for until Niche arrives in October.


Yes, single walled basket.


----------



## Cdn_coffee_lover

Hello from Canada. So pleased to find this forum with a DTP owners club! I recently treated myself to a Breville Duo-Temp Pro and a Smart Grinder Pro. On the learning curve. Loving the nuggets I'm gleaning from this thread. Really appreciate people sharing their experience.


----------



## leodis

Add one to the DTP club. Just need to upgrade my grinder.


----------



## PPapa

leodis said:


> Add one to the DTP club. Just need to upgrade my grinder.


Welcome to the club! What grinder are you using?


----------



## leodis

PPapa said:


> Welcome to the club! What grinder are you using?


Encore. It either chokes it or makes it watery half the time. If I hit lucky I get a great pull.


----------



## PPapa

leodis said:


> Encore. It either chokes it or makes it watery half the time. If I hit lucky I get a great pull.


Yeah, I don't think that's an espresso grinder, unfortunately!

Try playing with the dose a bit more and see where you can get while waiting for a better grinder. This, unfortunately, is what I would recommend .


----------



## joey24dirt

Couple of Mignon's up for sale at the moment if you can access that yet


----------



## leodis

Yeah I'm already resigned to the fact I need a new grinder and on the lookout


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Can some kind soul clear something up for me please...

The baskets on the DTP are 54mm instead of the standard 58mm. So does it hold the same amount of coffee as the standard 58mm but just a deeper basket or not?

I'm only asking for timing and dosage purposes really.

I watch a lot of videos and they pull a double shot of 2oz (60g) around the 25 second mark.

On my DTP with 17g of coffee I aim for around 35g in 25 seconds using my double basket...

So can you only get these standard measures using using a 58mm standard basket and if so, how does this all convert to the DTP?

Just something that's always niggled me and I don't properly understand that's all as I often see videos where they pull about 60ml (g) of espresso from 18g of coffee.

Thanks for any help.

Tony


----------



## MWJB

The Sage double holds 18g. 17-18g in a 58mm PF is the same thing.

Concentrate on the weight out, 60ml out could be anything from 40-60g out depending on crema. But 18:45g (for example) is always 18:45g.

Italian espresso ratios are very varied, they're not always multiples of an ounce out, they don't even use ounces there. If you're pulling anything between say, 1:2 and 1:4 you're pulling normal espresso ratios. Where it tastes best will depend on how coarse/fine you grind & how strong/weak you prefer it.


----------



## ashcroc

Also, don't worry too much about time, (within reason) it has the least effect on taste after dose & brew ratio. You might find a longer pour preferable plus your machine has pre-infusion which will add a few seconds.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Thanks for the advice guys!


----------



## eslord

Hi all

Finally my DTP arrived and I can join the club









Have mignon v2 for over 2 yrs now an I love it

Belive I will be able to say same words about my new machine, after some time.


----------



## adam85

Evening All,

Just trying to get clarification on probably an easy question -- these distribution tools I see now and then on the forum; are they for the sole benefit of levelling out the grind, or can the tamp too?

Also, I've googled and can't seem to find one which fits the ports -- I'm guessing this is a modification on others that I've seen?

Thanks (BTW - would recommend trying some 'Blending Rooms' coffee if you haven't -- very very good!!)


----------



## Jony

Well for the people who grind pretty fine only certain machines. they could tamp with it but most do use for distribution. some are 58 and some 54 I think not sure


----------



## joey24dirt

I made a few. They need to be 53mm or somewhere near. I think I went for 53.4mm 

Mainly used to level off but after a while I stopped using it.

Get a good consistent tamp technique, stir the grinds with a mini whisk or something similar and you will have great results.


----------



## ashcroc

Think most of the ones used by dtp owners have been turned down from 58mm by @joey24dirt.

If you can find a tight fitting one then tamping afterwards isn't always neccessary depending on your grinder.


----------



## ashcroc

joey24dirt said:


> I made a few. They need to be 53mm or somewhere near. I think I went for 53.4mm
> 
> Mainly used to level off but after a while I stopped using it.
> 
> Get a good consistent tamp technique, stir the grinds with a mini whisk or something similar and you will have great results.


 Speak of the devil....


----------



## joey24dirt

ashcroc said:


> Speak of the devil....


? I've been banished since getting my other machines.


----------



## MC1

adam85 said:


> Evening All,
> 
> Just trying to get clarification on probably an easy question -- these distribution tools I see now and then on the forum; are they for the sole benefit of levelling out the grind, or can the tamp too?
> 
> Also, I've googled and can't seem to find one which fits the ports -- I'm guessing this is a modification on others that I've seen?
> 
> Thanks (BTW - would recommend trying some 'Blending Rooms' coffee if you haven't -- very very good!!)


I use the following (53mm), fits the DTP basket fine and at 25 odd quid, is a fraction of the price of an OCD one. Nice weight to it aswell and levels the grind a treat.

'Scarlet Speciale Espresso Distributor Coffee Tamper 58*mm 53*mm 51*mm 49*mm 47*mm 41*mm for Perfect Extraction in Portafilter Machines, Black, 53 mm https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079Y2TGLQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_8KTKBbWBFAYWF


----------



## adam85

joey24dirt said:


> I made a few. They need to be 53mm or somewhere near. I think I went for 53.4mm
> 
> Mainly used to level off but after a while I stopped using it.
> 
> Get a good consistent tamp technique, stir the grinds with a mini whisk or something similar and you will have great results.





ashcroc said:


> Think most of the ones used by dtp owners have been turned down from 58mm by @joey24dirt.
> 
> If you can find a tight fitting one then tamping afterwards isn't always neccessary depending on your grinder.


Thanks for the info chaps - I thought as much, that the ones I had seen were too big. I know someone was selling one recently, but think I've missed out there as I believe she's had a buyer. If not using yours Joey, don't suppose you would still have it to pass on (jk, I mean sell!)?

Saw the mini whisky chats - so may consider doing that I guess!



MC1 said:


> I use the following (53mm), fits the DTP basket fine and at 25 odd quid, is a fraction of the price of an OCD one. Nice weight to it aswell and levels the grind a treat.
> 
> 'Scarlet Speciale Espresso Distributor Coffee Tamper 58*mm 53*mm 51*mm 49*mm 47*mm 41*mm for Perfect Extraction in Portafilter Machines, Black, 53 mm https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079Y2TGLQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_8KTKBbWBFAYWF


Thanks again MC - I''ll check this out. On a side note, got the Hario grinder working much better now.


----------



## MC1

Nice one, what did you do to it to sort it?


----------



## joey24dirt

adam85 said:


> Thanks for the info chaps - I thought as much, that the ones I had seen were too big. I know someone was selling one recently, but think I've missed out there as I believe she's had a buyer. If not using yours Joey, don't suppose you would still have it to pass on (jk, I mean sell!)?
> 
> Saw the mini whisky chats - so may consider doing that I guess!
> 
> Thanks again MC - I''ll check this out. On a side note, got the Hario grinder working much better now.


Mine went a long time ago sorry dude. Looks like you should be able to grab a 53mm easy enough though so still an option. I'd definitely try a little whisk first or even a cocktail stick to move the grounds about, then get your tamp right


----------



## adam85

joey24dirt said:


> Mine went a long time ago sorry dude. Looks like you should be able to grab a 53mm easy enough though so still an option. I'd definitely try a little whisk first or even a cocktail stick to move the grounds about, then get your tamp right


Thanks Joe. Think I will whisk first, and if that doesn't help - grab one of those tools suggested (I've seen them in local coffee shops - hence me thinking they were needed).

Anyway, cheers chaps - very helpful. Off to a local coffee place now for some breakfast now! lol.


----------



## eslord

Hi

After a week with DTP Iam just wondering how much coffe you guys using to do double espresso ?

I was tweaking my mignon but 18g coffe is totally max I can pack in basket, and need to be grind little corser whats not giving me consistent results. Sometimes coffe is overextracted and taste sour.

Whats your tipical recipe for double shot ?


----------



## joey24dirt

@eslord when I had my DTP I was dosing 17g and stopping the shot at around 30g out. That was with lighter roasts.

What beans are you using?


----------



## eslord

Iam using rave signature. I think will switch to 17g more fine grind and less tamping pressure it gonna give more head space, and believe better extraction.


----------



## MWJB

eslord said:


> Hi
> 
> After a week with DTP Iam just wondering how much coffe you guys using to do double espresso ?
> 
> I was tweaking my mignon but 18g coffe is totally max I can pack in basket, and need to be grind little corser whats not giving me consistent results. Sometimes coffe is overextracted and taste sour.
> 
> Whats your tipical recipe for double shot ?


Sour is more usually under extracted. Maybe try grinding finer.

I usually do 18:72g in 20-30s.


----------



## eslord

I was doing 18g : 40 out in 35sec


----------



## MWJB

eslord said:


> I was doing 18g : 40 out in 35sec


Loosen off the grind a tad & try 45g out.

Are you grinding into the PF? If so, don't.


----------



## dmreeceuk

You could try grinding into the portafilter and a stir with a cocktail stick and level off with the metal blade so it's full to the top and level with the edge. Then tamp. I find this gives me the best most consistent results with the coffee beans I use and the minion. If it flows too slowly usually because it's too fine and the tamp doesn't squash the grinds much I back off the grind. I know this is not an accepted method but no messing with scales and easy and consistent based on volume not mass. 35s extraction time.


----------



## dmreeceuk

eslord said:


> Iam using rave signature. I think will switch to 17g more fine grind and less tamping pressure it gonna give more head space, and believe better extraction.


I found the Rave signature too light a roast and gave me not great and varied results. Flavour wasn't strong enough for me to get good enough Expresso and crema.


----------



## jen1979

I bought the Signature and Columbia Suarez from Rave. Am getting much better results with the Columbia.


----------



## eslord

dmreeceuk said:


> I found the Rave signature too light a roast and gave me not great and varied results. Flavour wasn't strong enough for me to get good enough Expresso and crema.


I have same experience flavour isnt strong at all,but had few shots which was super tasty.

Iam grinding into small cup first, then level it in portafilter with my finger and tamp.I've ordered fresh italian job and salvador los prineos for further test.

Iam thinking about it all day long and I might grinding to fine becouse coffe is driping for first few secunds and for first 20g Iam waiting about 25 sec.

thanks for all your advice









update;

a lot better results with italian job 54ml 30 sec


----------



## Benjijames28

Ok I am considering one of these.

I wanted a rocket but I don't have much space and to.be honest don't want to invest too much money in home coffee. I just want a machine that warms up fast and when combined with a decent grinder will produce some good coffee.

How often do these go on sale, right now cheapest I find is 319 from john Lewis


----------



## Amvantage

Have you thought about second hand? I've got one coming up for sale shortly for £130.


----------



## Benjijames28

Benjijames28 said:


> Ok I am considering one of these.
> 
> I wanted a rocket but I don't have much space and to.be honest don't want to invest too much money in home coffee. I just want a machine that warms up fast and when combined with a decent grinder will produce some good coffee.
> 
> How often do these go on sale, right now cheapest I find is 319 from john Lewis


I have. It does concern me not knowing the history of a machine. No point spending 130 quid on a machine that's had several years of hard use using plain tap water and no maintenance.

I am pretty sure they went on offer last year very cheap on Amazon etc..


----------



## lake_m

Benjijames28 said:


> I have. It does concern me not knowing the history of a machine. No point spending 130 quid on a machine that's had several years of hard use using plain tap water and no maintenance.
> 
> I am pretty sure they went on offer last year very cheap on Amazon etc..


For £130 it's worth a punt I think. Unlikely that the machine will have been abused by a member of this forum. £320 does seem a lot new. Do Lakeland still do them?


----------



## eslord

I've got mine from ecookshop for 249£ new. Great little machine.


----------



## Benjijames28

Got my machine today. It's a used machine and I've got some stupid questions before I start using it.

I've cleaned it all down and washed the outside of the machine etc... Next step I want to clean the internals. I've put a fresh water filter in already.

Now the seller kindly included some espresso machine cleaning tablets urnex, cafiza. What I attempted to do was follow the sage instructions of putting the rubber disc into my portafilter and basket, then running it on espresso setting in 20 second intervals until the tablet is dissolved.

I was expecting no liquid to come out of the portafilter but it did. Luckily I had a cup under it.

Did I do this right?

I've since washed my portafilter and ran a load of water through the machine on both espresso and steam setting to clear it out.

I wasn't going to attempt a descaler at this point in time.

Is there anything else I should do?


----------



## MC1

Benjijames28 said:


> Got my machine today. It's a used machine and I've got some stupid questions before I start using it.
> 
> I've cleaned it all down and washed the outside of the machine etc... Next step I want to clean the internals. I've put a fresh water filter in already.
> 
> Now the seller kindly included some espresso machine cleaning tablets urnex, cafiza. What I attempted to do was follow the sage instructions of putting the rubber disc into my portafilter and basket, then running it on espresso setting in 20 second intervals until the tablet is dissolved.
> 
> I was expecting no liquid to come out of the portafilter but it did. Luckily I had a cup under it.
> 
> Did I do this right?
> 
> I've since washed my portafilter and ran a load of water through the machine on both espresso and steam setting to clear it out.
> 
> I wasn't going to attempt a descaler at this point in time.
> 
> Is there anything else I should do?


Don't worry, water coming out the portafilter is normal. If you look closely at the silicon disc it has a small pinhole at the bottom.

Not sure if other people have noticed this but I find that it works better if you use the single shot basket rather than the double as the silicon disc sits better.


----------



## Benjijames28

MC1 said:


> Don't worry, water coming out the portafilter is normal. If you look closely at the silicon disc it has a small pinhole at the bottom.
> 
> Not sure if other people have noticed this but I find that it works better if you use the single shot basket rather than the double as the silicon disc sits better.


I will consider it cleaned and ready for use then.

Tomorrow should be exciting lol. I better have a read thru this thread for tips.


----------



## MC1

Benjijames28 said:


> I will consider it cleaned and ready for use then.
> 
> Tomorrow should be exciting lol. I better have a read thru this thread for tips.


Good luck, when I first got mine I read through the first 30 odd pages before giving up haha! A lot of useful info on here though.


----------



## Weymouth

I phoned Lakeland yesterday to talk about what would happen if they reduce it for black Friday and I bought it now. Well it went up £20 today!


----------



## Benjijames28

Had a play this morning trying to get my lido grinder into the right range to pull a good shot. It's hard work using a hand grinder.

Anyway in end I managed to get a shot that was ok, so quickly attempt some milk. It was a bit crap lol.

I've learnt that I'm gonna need a bottomless portafilter due to lack of space. It's near impossible to get a normal size cup on top of scales on the drip trap.

My machine also seems to be leaking a bit from underneath. It's supposed to purge into the drip tray but seems to be missing the drip tray somehow. I need to keep an eye on it. Suppose it was the risk of a used machine.


----------



## Weymouth

Well it's gone down £20 at John Lewis!


----------



## adam85

Benjijames28 said:


> Had a play this morning trying to get my lido grinder into the right range to pull a good shot. It's hard work using a hand grinder.
> 
> Anyway in end I managed to get a shot that was ok, so quickly attempt some milk. It was a bit crap lol.
> 
> I've learnt that I'm gonna need a bottomless portafilter due to lack of space. It's near impossible to get a normal size cup on top of scales on the drip trap.
> 
> My machine also seems to be leaking a bit from underneath. It's supposed to purge into the drip tray but seems to be missing the drip tray somehow. I need to keep an eye on it. Suppose it was the risk of a used machine.


Only just read this, and I am a total 'newbie' (not by time, but by practice / skill).. that said:

1) have you tried drawing your shot(s) into a glass? That might help fit in better. I don't always use it, but managed to find myself a Rhinowares one which I think a fair few people on this site have.

2) I would maybe gauge if your machine is level. I moved mine from one side of the kitchen, to the other, and found for some stupid reason the desktop wasn't 100% level. Pop a spirit level on top of the main head of the machine, and see. If it isn't level, that maybe why the water isn't dropping correctly into the tray?

Just a thought!


----------



## MC1

Benjijames28 said:


> Had a play this morning trying to get my lido grinder into the right range to pull a good shot. It's hard work using a hand grinder.
> 
> Anyway in end I managed to get a shot that was ok, so quickly attempt some milk. It was a bit crap lol.
> 
> I've learnt that I'm gonna need a bottomless portafilter due to lack of space. It's near impossible to get a normal size cup on top of scales on the drip trap.
> 
> My machine also seems to be leaking a bit from underneath. It's supposed to purge into the drip tray but seems to be missing the drip tray somehow. I need to keep an eye on it. Suppose it was the risk of a used machine.


My machine also gets wet in the gap where the drip tray sits. Not too much though, just enough for me to have to wipe it every tank or so. I just put it down to condensation and maybe a slight design fault.

Make sure you're emptying the drip tray before the 'Empty Me' indicator pops it's head up. I find that the indicator is way too late and by that time it's already overflowed or very close to (plus it's near impossible to carry to the sink without spilling any!). I tend to empty it after every couple shots just to be safe.


----------



## Weymouth

Now up to the full price of £379.95 at Lakeland but still £299 at John Lewis

Isn't there a rule that the higher price has to be there for 28 days in a row before you can quote it in a sale price? Black Friday 23rd November


----------



## adam85

Weymouth said:


> Now up to the full price of £379.95 at Lakeland but still £299 at John Lewis
> 
> Isn't there a rule that the higher price has to be there for 28 days in a row before you can quote it in a sale price? Black Friday 23rd November


Well, it's the 20th today, and there is 31 days in October, soooo....


----------



## jonf

As an upgrade to a Delonghi EC.680, I got my DTP a few months ago with a SGP because I thought a separate machine and grinder would be more reliable/flexible than the BE at work... (I'm not sure it was the correct choice as I don't think I'm getting the same flavours out of the beans. So, I splashed out on a Niche Zero to see if it helps... might arrive this side of Christmas. Anyhooo...)

Reading through the thread for different approaches I think I've got a decent workflow now for the single basket, and the most important thing I found early on was to ignore the Razor and set the basket depth manually.

Essentially, I grind 10g (plus a little for retention in the SGP) into a shot glass which fits the basket (similar to the Niche Zero cup). Use a distribution tool to spread round, tamp down, then attach the portafilter. I gently tighten it round to the right until it won't move any more, so the grinds are up against the shower head, then loosen back to the left about 10 degrees or so to give room for grinds expansion (easy to check it's correct as there will be slight bumps in the top of the puck, and the puck will knock out solid). Ignore 30 second extraction time and yield and instead watch for the colour change during extraction, stopping extraction as soon as the colour loses its richness.

What I've found with the beans I've used so far in the SGP is that adjusting coarseness to reach a grind rate of 1g per second is a good indication the grind is about right for a ~30 second extraction (which I know I may ignore, but still it's a good guideline).


----------



## tuk

I've only had the DTP for a few days and still getting dialled in, but I've noticed sometimes the steamer just randomly loses power.

I pull a shot, turn on the steamer, when steam is filling the tray I turn it off, put the jug under and submerge the nozzle in the milk, and then after 10-20 secs it just dies and goes quiet, I then have to turn the dial to centre and back to steam then go again.

It seems random and doesn't happen too often, but it means I'm steaming the milk in two stages, anyone else experienced this?


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Have one of these coming for Xmas that the wife bought me (independently in the black friday sale for 229) so having sold the Classic was looking to find out what the basket capacities are please?


----------



## MC1

tuk said:


> I've only had the DTP for a few days and still getting dialled in, but I've noticed sometimes the steamer just randomly loses power.
> 
> I pull a shot, turn on the steamer, when steam is filling the tray I turn it off, put the jug under and submerge the nozzle in the milk, and then after 10-20 secs it just dies and goes quiet, I then have to turn the dial to centre and back to steam then go again.
> 
> It seems random and doesn't happen too often, but it means I'm steaming the milk in two stages, anyone else experienced this?


That sounds strange, can you hear the pump thudding when the steam is on for that 20-30 seconds? The only thing I have had that is close to this is when I first turn on the steam, water comes out of the arm, stops, I wait a few seconds and the pump kicks in and steam starts appearing.

However, I always steam my milk before pulling a shot as the milk will stay warm for longer than the espresso - maybe try it this way round and see if that stops the problem? Worth a try


----------



## PPapa

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Have one of these coming for Xmas that the wife bought me (independently in the black friday sale for 229) so having sold the Classic was looking to find out what the basket capacities are please?


18g works quite well with the single wall double basket.


----------



## tuk

MC1 said:


> That sounds strange, can you hear the pump thudding when the steam is on for that 20-30 seconds? The only thing I have had that is close to this is when I first turn on the steam, water comes out of the arm, stops, I wait a few seconds and the pump kicks in and steam starts appearing.
> 
> However, I always steam my milk before pulling a shot as the milk will stay warm for longer than the espresso - maybe try it this way round and see if that stops the problem? Worth a try


I know what you mean about water coming out at the start, but this is like nothing happening at all, no noise or anything it just dies, but I've noticed when I get it started again it quirts out a jet of milk before the steam starts like its been sucking up milk.

I'll start paying more attention to what the pump is doing when steaming and if it becomes an issue I'll try steaming first.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

I have one more question. Apart from Tesco for spice pots is there anywhere a funnel could be ordered from please?


----------



## PPapa

Hairy_Hogg said:


> I have one more question. Apart from Tesco for spice pots is there anywhere a funnel could be ordered from please?


There's an option on eBay (£10) that are wide and light. @Norvin does them which are heavy and straight (column design), which are heftier and nicer to use.


----------



## ashcroc

Hairy_Hogg said:


> I have one more question. Apart from Tesco for spice pots is there anywhere a funnel could be ordered from please?


Quick cheap short-term option is a yogurt pot. Noticed quite by chance a Cadbury chocolate steam pudding pot is a near perfect fit for a 58mm pf though that'd obviously be too large for a dtp.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

> There's an option on eBay (£10) that are wide and light. @Norvin does them which are heavy and straight (column design), which are heftier and nicer to use.


@Norvin - Any chance of one of yours? @PPapa - Do you have the ebay link please


----------



## Norvin

[/quote @Norvin - Any chance of one of yours?

Yes, I have five blanks left. When they're gone they're gone.

pm sent.


----------



## randyr5

Norvin said:


> [/quote @Norvin - Any chance of one of yours?


Yes, I have five blanks left. When they're gone they're gone.

pm sent.

Hi, Do you ship to USA?


----------



## Norvin

randyr5 said:


> Yes, I have five blanks left. When they're gone they're gone.
> 
> pm sent.


Hi, Do you ship to USA?

pm sent


----------



## pgarrish

tuk said:


> I've only had the DTP for a few days and still getting dialled in, but I've noticed sometimes the steamer just randomly loses power.
> 
> I pull a shot, turn on the steamer, when steam is filling the tray I turn it off, put the jug under and submerge the nozzle in the milk, and then after 10-20 secs it just dies and goes quiet, I then have to turn the dial to centre and back to steam then go again.
> 
> It seems random and doesn't happen too often, but it means I'm steaming the milk in two stages, anyone else experienced this?


Have you just waited a bit? Mine does this sometimes - blasts a bit through the wand, then goes quiet then the thudding starts and it start steaming properly. Doesn't always follow the same pattern, I think it depends how long you run it and how hot the machine is. So without the jug, you turn the dial to the right to start the steam wand, wait for all the water to clear out and steam to start properly, then turn back to the middle, pop the jug under and then turn the dial to the right again to start steaming the milk. Sometimes it starts thumping almost instantly, sometimes it steams a bit then starts thumping, sometimes it stops and goes quiet, then it starts thumping. It always seems to get going after a second or two at most.


----------



## DH83

Hi all, I'm very new to the coffee scene and thinking of purchasing a Sage DTP along with the Sage Grinder Pro. I do really like the rawness of the Gaggia and they look fun to play with and modify but I'm not sure the Mrs would like the look of it on the counter top.

I realise the views in here will be relatively biased. Is the DTP suited to a beginner such as myself?

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Teejay

I'm a beginner and have had one for a few months, so I would say yes they are beginner friendly. I've just upgraded to a Lelit Bianca and wil be advertising here in the next day or so.


----------



## MC1

DH83 said:


> Hi all, I'm very new to the coffee scene and thinking of purchasing a Sage DTP along with the Sage Grinder Pro. I do really like the rawness of the Gaggia and they look fun to play with and modify but I'm not sure the Mrs would like the look of it on the counter top.
> 
> I realise the views in here will be relatively biased. Is the DTP suited to a beginner such as myself?
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


Definitely beginner friendly with the capability to progress with you as your skills improve. You could definitely do a lot worse for the price, I've been more than happy with mine. Very happy with my SGP too


----------



## DH83

Quick question if I may. I'm slowly getting together a list of kit equipment to start me on my journey into the world of decent coffee. I have my eye on the following:

Sage DTP

Sage SGP

Beans from Rave

Motta tamper 53mm

For a few hundred pounds I think the above would be a good start and get me on my way. I am a little confused as to what the distribution tool does though and whether it is necessary. Especially the ones that have been modded with the flat base. Does this not do the same job as the tamper or am I missing something here? Also, are the naked portafilters a good way to go?

Thanks for the help.


----------



## Nick1881

Hi all, newbie here. I have just made my first attempts at espresso making after using an Aeropress.

Yesterday I took delivery of

DTP

SGP

Sage knock box

Scales

I have on the way,

Another scale with timer

Tamping mat

Milk thermometer

Espresso shot glass

Loveramics Mug

Barista towel set - so I can at least look professional, even though I'm not.

Yesterday I made some very bad coffee, sour and bitter, all went down the sink. I was up till 1am reading about ratios and watching videos.

Second attempt this morning I finally pulled a drinkable shot, I used the double basket, 18g dose and over ran slightly for 42g output in 32 seconds, my scales are a bit slow.

I'm no coffee expert but it was as good as most coffees I've had in cafes. I'm sure I can improve it further but for now I'm just happy I made something drinkable.

I spent a lot of time reading here so I'd like to thank you guys.

Is there anything else I need?


----------



## PPapa

I think your next purchase should be a tamper since the stock one is quite a bad fit. Motta tamper will do and it's quite cheap. Joey's custom tampers are better fit. They look awesome too:

Joey's special oak/skateboard tamper and portafilter handles

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=6813&share_tid=43024&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D43024&share_type=t

Bottomless Portafilter will help with diagnosing your shot preparation and portafilter funnel, distribution tool or a modified whisk (or both) will help with that preparation. I wouldn't stress over it as you can get 80% (a complete finger in the air figure!) out of your setup and beans.

The god shots we all chase are great fun, but becomes an obsession with diminishing returns.


----------



## Nick1881

Thanks for the reply but I don't fully understand everything you said. What makes the stock tamper a bad fit, I see the Motta one is about £20, will it help a lot. The custom one by Joey looks cool but I haven't found where or how I buy one, think I also saw a bottomless portafilter he made.

Funnel, distribution tool or modified whisk - could you please but this into more simple words for a simpleton lol.

I'll try not to go too mad, though I am a bit of a perfectionist. Yesterday I got myself into a caffeine induced frenzy, I should have spat the bad coffee instead of keep drinking a bit of each one.


----------



## PPapa

I think there are few resources by Matt Perger who written up the importance of the size of the tamper if you want to look into it deeper. I'm not a coffee scientist, but you might still find the following text intimidating - it's okay... we've all been there, thinking "coffee, hot water, pressure - espresso done!"

Tampers... In a nutshell, you want something that compresses grounds evenly. If you had a 1mm edge on each side, then the water will take a path of least resistance and you will get an uneven water flow through the puck. Some will claim they can taste a difference, but I haven't deliberately tried it.

Motta or Joey's tampers are wider in diameter and provide a snug fit, leaving less of a gap (virtually no wiggle room). You can ping @joey24dirt as he's a forum member.

The funnel is an extension to the basket that makes coffee distribution (shot preparation) easier and mess free. You want to weigh the grounds and keep them in the basket, not on the counter!

Something like this... @Norvin used to sell them (the one on the left) and there's an option on eBay (right one).










Modified whisk is a tool to stir grinds in the basket. Helps with breaking any clumped grounds and even extraction. Not many available to buy, so people just chop a whisk.










Distribution tool is a grooming device for the top of the puck. Makes the level and even tamping easier.










My usual workflow:

Grind into a cup and shake the cup

Put a funnel on the portafilter, invert it

Stir the grounds and get it level-ish

Tap to settle the grounds

Groom with distribution tool

Light tamp

There are few good articles on diagnosing the issues by using bottomless portafilter, but in short, you want something that looks even in terms of flow and colour.

What I said and what I do is not the universal truth - happy to be corrected. It's just what I do and what I found works best for me (until I learn something new).

TL;DR: even extraction, even extraction, even extraction.


----------



## Nick1881

Thanks again for all the info.

I will get a whisk and cut it. I will also look at getting a tamper and a funnel.

I made another espresso this afternoon and it was also good. Then made my gf a Latte and she was impressed, though she's not a big coffee drinker.


----------



## Nick1881

I had a few more bits turn up today, shot glass, I was using a 1/3 pint beer tasting glass that was too tall. Also new scales with timer built in, makes things much easier.

Tomorrow my Motta tamper should come and I've just ordered the Motta tamping station as I keep getting coffee grounds on the floor and my worktop is a bit too rounded.

This has been a more expensive setup then I had planned for, but at least now my only outlay will be beans, water filters and descaling tablets.

Speaking of filters, where is the best place to buy replacements?


----------



## PPapa

Welcome to the forum then! You're a true member now. Just kidding... 

Some folk use a BWT water jug to refill the tank. My water is soft, but quite chlorinated, so I reuse the same jug for drinking water and refilling espresso machine. I think that's what Reiss from Londinium suggested, so I stole that idea.

It was under £20 for a 6 month supply of filters. You'll need a jug initially, too.


----------



## Nick1881

PPapa said:


> Welcome to the forum then! You're a true member now. Just kidding...
> 
> Some folk use a BWT water jug to refill the tank. My water is soft, but quite chlorinated, so I reuse the same jug for drinking water and refilling espresso machine. I think that's what Reiss from Londinium suggested, so I stole that idea.
> 
> It was under £20 for a 6 month supply of filters. You'll need a jug initially, too.


Thanks, I see the filters are expensive. I'm wondering if an inline filter would be better, I could fit one to my sink and it looks like they last a long time and work out cheaper.

Just trying to figure out if I can put it on my existing tap or I need to add an extra tap.

I noticed the water tank empties very quickly, wish I could run a feed and tap to the tank, then just turn a tap on to fill the tank.


----------



## ATZ

Nick1881 said:


> Thanks, I see the filters are expensive. I'm wondering if an inline filter would be better, I could fit one to my sink and it looks like they last a long time and work out cheaper.
> 
> Just trying to figure out if I can put it on my existing tap or I need to add an extra tap.
> 
> I noticed the water tank empties very quickly, wish I could run a feed and tap to the tank, then just turn a tap on to fill the tank.


Yeah one of the few drawbacks with this machine, once you've run a warming shot and a couple of drinks you can easily have used 1/4 to 1/2 a tank!


----------



## PPapa

I have a feeling the purging is that used up a lot of water. Nothing to back this up.

I just found that my L-R has a completely dry drip tray and i need to refill the water tank so less often. Not a reason for an upgrade, but nice to have...


----------



## Nick1881

I'll get a filtered tap next year, will also be good for drinking water. Water filter man near Birmingham seems very reasonable.

My Motta tamper arrived today, it is so much better, good call on that. Better fit and even the feel of it. I feel like my shots are pretty consistent already, to my taste buds at least.

Edit - What's an L-R?


----------



## ATZ

Nick1881 said:


> Edit - What's an L-R?


A mythical expensive unicorn!

In seriousness it's a spring lever coffee machine, a very good one, that also carries the price tag to match it's looks and performance.

https://londiniumespresso.com/store/londinium-r


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

I unwrapped my DTP on Christmas Day, pressie from wife purchased on Black Friday (£229 bargain).

Had already sorted from the forum a Joey adapted distributor and push style tamper as well as a Norvin funnel so was ready to go.

Paired it with my Minion from my old Gaggia classic and was pleasantly surprised that my second shot was pretty much on the money 18g to 36 in 34 seconds, Foundry Rio Magdelana beans as thought they would be an easy bean to dial in and would go well with milk for wifey who likes a latte. Had purchased the beans in advance so they were well rested and the espresso shot was bang on the tasting notes

Had a go with milk steaming yesterday, latte for wife, and again was impressed with the ease of steaming the milk. Perfect micro foam and a brownie points earning drink served up.

Must say, very impressed with the DTP compared to my old Classic. Was drinking much more pour over due to the challenge of getting a decent temp surfed shot out the classic but I think the ratio of espresso to V60 might change a little now.


----------



## horshamcoffee

Hi everyone,

I've just bought a Duo Temp Pro, managed to grab one from ecookshop for £229. Fairly impressed so far but I'm finding the steam wand to be very slow, took around 50 seconds to steam about 200ml of milk. Would you say this is fairly normal? I'm more accustomed to a La Marzocco FB80 so yes I know it will be slower but just wanted to compare with other forum members.

Also, any commercially available bottomless portafilters for these?

Bought this for both home use and also to get a good idea how our coffees taste through a sub £500 setup.

Thanks

Bradley


----------



## M_H_S

horshamcoffee said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I've just bought a Duo Temp Pro, managed to grab one from ecookshop for £229. Fairly impressed so far but I'm finding the steam wand to be very slow, took around 50 seconds to steam about 200ml of milk. Would you say this is fairly normal? I'm more accustomed to a La Marzocco FB80 so yes I know it will be slower but just wanted to compare with other forum members.
> 
> Also, any commercially available bottomless portafilters for these?
> 
> Bought this for both home use and also to get a good idea how our coffees taste through a sub £500 setup.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Bradley


Hi. As a DTP user yes that is how long it normally takes to steam milk and understandably you will feel it coming off steaming on a commercial business.

You may also notice the milk is a slightly watier due to the time it takes.

All bottomless pfs I have seen have been custom made. I have one modified by @joey24dirt

Also if you are testing the espresso and milk drinks on this machine from your beans, that's great as it will give & DTP and BE users more certainty about what outcome they would get with your beans if you shared your experiences and findings made some machine specific recommendations.

Also please do let us know what grinder you would be using so it matches what a number of forumites may have. I and many others currently have a Niche Zero.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

I received one of these from a well meaning relative for Xmas









Was going to put it in a cupboard ready for donating as a raffle prize at some point in the future when a thought struck me. The cocoa dusting pot looked just the right size for a catch cup. Removed the lid and it does indeed fit like a glove, dose into it and then put my Norvin funnel on top then the portafilter and invert.


----------



## Magicdude

Hi all,

Usual story, got a DTP for Christmas and have been playing around with limited success. I'm just using a modded kg79 at the minute, so I know my first step (of many) is a grinder. I have read as many of these posts as I can, I started eat the front and got about 35 in, then switched to the end and worked back, got to about 80 and decided to jump in. I'm not looking for any immediate tips as from what I've read from you good people I know the variables to experiment with to get what I'm looking forehand I'm enjoying the adventure.

One thing I will mention is my shots are starting fine but getting weak very quickly, which I think is poor quality beans?

Just one more thing, I have seen a Rancilio Rocky at a good price but have not seen one mentioned here, is it any good?

Thanks in advance for any help offered.


----------



## M_H_S

Looking for specific bean recommendations from DTP and Niche Zero owners so I can replicate the combo.

Also helpful would be:

1. How it's being drunk... I favor flat whites but am open to trying espresso if tasting one can convince me.

2. Coffee in/out/time for a shot i.e. 18g in 36g out in 45secs (whole time not from first drop).

Just trying to see the best the Niche can do on a DTP.

Thanks.


----------



## j0nathon

I've recently bought the DTP and my cleaning disc has no hole in it. I have ready many other posts while learning about this machine that say it should have a hole as the machine itsself has no true backflush.

Do I need to create a hole or will I risk damage to the machine/pump if I try and clean with it as it is as there is nowhere for the water to go?

While my machine is fairly new, I ask this question because I noticed the shower screen is uneven in terms of water release and wondered if it already needed a "clean".


----------



## longhardgrind

I clean my shower screen every week or two ( by removing it and giving it a wash) it always needs cleaning, sugest you try that. You might want to ring Sage about your cleaning disk, the pressure buld up without a hole could possible cause damage.


----------



## j0nathon

I spoke to Sage who said that all the new cleaning discs come without a hole and it will not cause any damage to the machine.

I am not sure on the physical reasons why, but I have it in writing at least!


----------



## rodduz

Wasted some beans today I will say that much!


----------



## dmreeceuk

j0nathon said:


> I spoke to Sage who said that all the new cleaning discs come without a hole and it will not cause any damage to the machine.
> 
> I am not sure on the physical reasons why, but I have it in writing at least!


Ohh no does that mean I need to block my hole!


----------



## DH83

Hi all,

Finally took delivery of my DTP at the weekend. I really like the design of the machine, it's fairly robust and so far has been easy to use.

I only have some Tesco grounds to play with but from the one double shot I've pulled so far on the DTP I must say the coffee was pretty good, at least to my tastes. I ran some water through it all first then warmed up the portafilter and dried everything. 17g into the double basket and away I went. I did try and eyeball when the texture changed as to when I ought to stop the water but the time was at or around 40 seconds. I'll start to take some notes on subsequent pulls. The coffee certainly wasn't bitter or sour.

I am now after a couple of items to improve the process. A proper tamper (the one supplied is a little bit ropey) and some scales so that I can measure output and time things. Oh and a grinder of course. Currently waiting for John Lewis to have a sale on so that we can spend some of our wedding vouchers.

Great thread. I will no doubt be back in here asking loads more daft questions.


----------



## joey24dirt

Hi guys. Glad this thread is still going strong. Has anyone tried to order a portafilter recently? Can't see them listed on the site.


----------



## DH83

joey24dirt said:


> Hi guys. Glad this thread is still going strong. Has anyone tried to order a portafilter recently? Can't see them listed on the site.


I haven't but I have sent you a pm







definitely interested but think I perhaps need a distribution tool and a tamper first.


----------



## M_H_S

Their stock list online is always unrepresentative. The truth is only discovered on the phone unfortunately. Hassle I know. And if out of stock they can normally let you know when they will be.



joey24dirt said:


> Hi guys. Glad this thread is still going strong. Has anyone tried to order a portafilter recently? Can't see them listed on the site.


----------



## joey24dirt

DH83 said:


> I haven't but I have sent you a pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> definitely interested but think I perhaps need a distribution tool and a tamper first.


Yes I've seen it. I'll reply shortly matey


----------



## joey24dirt

M_H_S said:


> Their stock list online is always unrepresentative. The truth is only discovered on the phone unfortunately. Hassle I know. And if out of stock they can normally let you know when they will be.


I have an email from the last batch I got so I might just ask the question. Would be a shame if they stopped doing them.


----------



## DH83

Had a bit of a fail last night. Pulled a shot into a glass that clearly wasn't meant for 93'C liquids. Glass and coffee everywhere. Ruined my scales too but these were old and a bit crap anyway. I did have a bit of fun chopping up a tube of bicarb soda which fits perfectly into the pf. Thanks for the tip.

I'm making my way back through this thread as I recall someone suggesting placing a 20p on top of the grounds once tamped. If it left an indent then this was a good indication of the amount of grounds and tamping pressure etc. Could someone perhaps clarify this?

Cheers


----------



## DH83

Quick question, how on earth do I go about removing the plastic disc in the pf? I almost punctured my hand attempting with a flat head screwdriver. Is it screwed in?

Cheers

David


----------



## jonnycooper29

DH83 said:


> Quick question, how on earth do I go about removing the plastic disc in the pf? I almost punctured my hand attempting with a flat head screwdriver. Is it screwed in?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David


I unscrewed the spout of the PF then poked it through from the bottom. I don't know if they are being put together differently now but it came out quite easily when I did it!


----------



## DH83

jonnycooper29 said:


> I unscrewed the spout of the PF then poked it through from the bottom. I don't know if they are being put together differently now but it came out quite easily when I did it!


That's what I've been trying. Will give it another go. Mrs is on standby in case of an accident.

In other news. Tried to split a double shot into two cups. 18g in, ended up with 68g total. Tasted really bitter and went in the sink. I then realised I hadn't warmed up the pf at all.

Many fails on many levels. Enjoying the learning curve though.

Cheers.


----------



## DH83

Sorted. Squeezed the clips in with a small screwdriver and out it popped.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## All_a_Mort

DH83 said:


> Pulled a shot into a glass that clearly wasn't meant for 93'C liquids.
> 
> I'm making my way back through this thread as I recall someone suggesting placing a 20p on top of the grounds once tamped. If it left an indent then this was a good indication of the amount of grounds and tamping pressure etc. Could someone perhaps clarify this?


Think it was a 5p that was suggested. Can't remember who said it, might be Joey24dirt, but I did just read through all 127 pages of this thread in one setting, so the advice was definitely in there somewhere.

On the glass front, reminds me of when I tried pouring the (hot) oil from my deep fat fryer back into the plastic bottle it came from, rather than wait hours for it cool. Wasn't a good idea.



DH83 said:


> That's what I've been trying. Will give it another go. Mrs is on standby in case of an accident.
> 
> In other news. Tried to split a double shot into two cups. 18g in, ended up with 68g total. Tasted really bitter and went in the sink. I then realised I hadn't warmed up the pf at all.


68g out? Did you time it? That sounds like way too coarse a grind. Temperature of the PF isn't going to make any difference if it's pouring out of the spouts like a raging torrent.


----------



## DH83

All_a_Mort said:


> [/color]
> 
> Think it was a 5p that was suggested. Can't remember who said it, might be Joey24dirt, but I did just read through all 127 pages of this thread in one setting, so the advice was definitely in there somewhere.
> 
> On the glass front, reminds me of when I tried pouring the (hot) oil from my deep fat fryer back into the plastic bottle it came from, rather than wait hours for it cool. Wasn't a good idea.
> 
> 68g out? Did you time it? That sounds like way too coarse a grind. Temperature of the PF isn't going to make any difference if it's pouring out of the spouts like a raging torrent.


I'm up to page 90 odd again. Decided to read things through a second time since actually receiving my DTP.

Regarding my last shot, I'm using a bag of pre ground which is probably going to mean things are hit and miss anyway. Using them mainly to just familiarise myself with the whole process and practice. Interestingly though my very first pull was, I think, somewhat decent. This last one was bloody awful.

Time out was around 23-25 seconds to 68g. Perhaps not a strong enough tamp? My motta tamper is arriving early next week so hoping that improves things.

Cheers


----------



## ashcroc

DH83 said:


> I'm up to page 90 odd again. Decided to read things through a second time since actually receiving my DTP.
> 
> Regarding my last shot, I'm using a bag of pre ground which is probably going to mean things are hit and miss anyway. Using them mainly to just familiarise myself with the whole process and practice. Interestingly though my very first pull was, I think, somewhat decent. This last one was bloody awful.
> 
> Time out was around 23-25 seconds to 68g. Perhaps not a strong enough tamp? My motta tamper is arriving early next week so hoping that improves things.
> 
> Cheers


Use the pressurised baskets for your preground. It's what they're there for.


----------



## DH83

ashcroc said:


> Use the pressurised baskets for your preground. It's what they're there for.


I was watching videos on YouTube last night and somebody suggested this. Will give it a go.

Cheers


----------



## DH83

Evening. So I switched to the double pressurised basket until I get a grinder involved. Once I had 18g of grounds in there I found it quite hard to get the pf into the group head. I really had to force it. It was as though it wasn't lined up properly. I've no issue when the pf is empty. Am I over filling perhaps?

Also, getting the puck out of the pressurised basket was a bit of a pain. After a few firm taps the basket came out with the grinds and into the sink. Am I doing something wrong here?

18g in and about 40 out for the first pull tonight. Didnt realise quite how much water still flowed out after stopping the shot.

2nd shot was better at around 38g. Tasted slightly sour though. To be honest I'm just happy I think I can tell the difference between what is sour and bitter!

Cheers


----------



## Tonino

Hi, 18g I think it's overloaded for dtp, I am doing with 14 to 16g max and I have a great results. Sometimes it's just better to leave all the numbers a side and change the variables one at a time just to suit your personal taste. Maybe you can try some other beans too.

Good luck.


----------



## hotmetal

Don't the sage machines all come with that razor tool thing to cut/ flatten the dose in the basket? That should help you to get the fill level right. Failing that, the coin trick will help (2p/5p/10p probably all good, £1 not so much).

Overfilling will make for a bad shot, difficulty in locking the PF in, and also explains why you had difficulty knocking out the compressed puck.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## DH83

Thanks for the replies. I guess because I read so much about 18g in I just took that as gospel really. I'll experiment with less.

The razor can help with the dose but I quite enjoy weighing it in at the moment, at least until I get a grinder.

I'm only having trouble knocking out the puck in the pressurised baskets. The puck comes straight out of the single wall ones.

Cheers

David


----------



## DH83

Tried 17g twice. The basket still came out when trying to knock the puck out. Was easier to get the pf locked in though.

Cant wait to get a grinder so I don't have to mess around with these grounds. Tis fun though.

Cheers.


----------



## ashcroc

DH83 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I guess because I read so much about 18g in I just took that as gospel really. I'll experiment with less.
> 
> The razor can help with the dose but I quite enjoy weighing it in at the moment, at least until I get a grinder.
> 
> I'm only having trouble knocking out the puck in the pressurised baskets. The puck comes straight out of the single wall ones.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> David


That's one of the drawbacks of using the pressurised basket. The puck will always be more on the soupy side due to the pressure restriction.

Are you using a knock box with a bar or just knocking into the sink,bin etc?


----------



## DH83

ashcroc said:


> That's one of the drawbacks of using the pressurised basket. The puck will always be more on the soupy side due to the pressure restriction.
> 
> Are you using a knock box with a bar or just knocking into the sink,bin etc?


Knocking into the sink/food recycler so probably not ideal.


----------



## ashcroc

DH83 said:


> Knocking into the sink/food recycler so probably not ideal.


I used to knock into a tuppaware pot until I got a small motta knock bin & found the bar improved things greatly. It just seems to work better knocking on the middle of the basket instead of the edge. The grindenstein ones are quite cheap & well thought of. Sage make one too if you wish to brand match.


----------



## DH83

Thank you for the suggestions.

Daft question ahoy. What part of the pf should I be knocking? I think I whack the arm nearer the head(?). Too afraid of doing the metal damage I think.


----------



## DH83

Afternoon all. Tried a long black from the DTP and although I'm only using pre ground the taste was far superior to that of instant coffee. I'm glad my taste buds work to at least some degree.

Quick question regarding killing the shot to achieve desired output weight (34g); am I flipping the switch back to neutral at say 33g and taking scales and cup away (often resulting in a complete mess) or should I turn off at say 26/27g and let the flow stop? Not sure how the pressure will affect flow rate and therefore taste?

Cheers.


----------



## Tonino

Hi, just turn it off whenever you have enough coffee in the cup and take the cup away immediately, if you leave the cup under the portafilter and let the coffee dripping in may make your shot taste worse. And remember, when using pre ground and pressurised baskets all measurements are different from when using a freshly ground beans, take it easy until you get yourself a grinder. Double wall espresso cups are also a good addition to the home set up. ☕

Have a nice day all ✌


----------



## Tlong

Does the lack of a pressure gauge make dialling in shots and grinder setting more difficult? (Coming from a complete newbie)


----------



## M_H_S

Yes it is very easy and possible without a gauge by measuring input and output weight as well as timing.

The guage on the Barista Express is a bit of a gimmick as it doesn't even have numbers and you could get great espresso with a pressure reading which appears high. It is useful though for observing gradually increasing pre infusion pressure.



Tlong said:


> Does the lack of a pressure gauge make dialling in shots and grinder setting more difficult? (Coming from a complete newbie)


----------



## Tlong

Ah okay, thank you very much


----------



## Method

Hi Folks

I am a newbie (but have been reading an awful lot). Im looking for some help/advice from you more experienced people please!

I have a Sage DTP and a Sage Dose Control Pro grinder. Ive just bought some beans from JollyBeanRoastery (they are on this forum) - got the Columbia Kaizen Natural. It arrived yesterday (Tue) and was roasted on Mon.

So with all that out of the way here are my two issues:

1) Still getting very little crema. Everyone in another thread told me once Im using freshly roasted beans i will have crema going everywhere. Nope! i get some. Like 2mm on top of the coffee. When I see pics online...its like 60% crema on top of 40% coffee. Im probably 90% coffee, 10% crema and thats being generous.

2) I am struggling to dial in this coffee. See below:

From some cheap beans I bought from Sainsburys I knew that to get a 1:2 extraction in approx 30 seconds i needed to be grinding at about 5 on the Dose Control Pro.

Im down to 2 on the grinder now and my 18g dose (well tamped and level as far as I can see) is hits 40g out at 20s. 10 of that is PI! Ive basically got nowhere to go on the grinder?

Am i doing something wrong here?

Inside the grinder there is further adjustment on the top burr. if anyone is familiar with Sage grinders please can you let me know if I should be messing with this? I dont want to make the burrs touch!

thanks in advance

I can take pics if that helps

Methy


----------



## M_H_S

Firstly crema is not a universal indicator of good coffee. Different beans produce different amounts. I've had really nice coffee with little crema and vice versa. It's more important to get the right flow rate. As such your extraction is far too quick and the fault is likely with the grind size. I have not used the Sage grinder except within the Barista Express.

Try to adjust it and see if you can get it to touch. A safe way to do this is by rotating the inner burr by hand. If it makes a noise or doesn't move then you'll know its zeroed.


----------



## matttan90

Method said:


> Hi Folks
> 
> I am a newbie (but have been reading an awful lot). Im looking for some help/advice from you more experienced people please!
> 
> I have a Sage DTP and a Sage Dose Control Pro grinder. Ive just bought some beans from JollyBeanRoastery (they are on this forum) - got the Columbia Kaizen Natural. It arrived yesterday (Tue) and was roasted on Mon.
> 
> So with all that out of the way here are my two issues:
> 
> 1) Still getting very little crema. Everyone in another thread told me once Im using freshly roasted beans i will have crema going everywhere. Nope! i get some. Like 2mm on top of the coffee. When I see pics online...its like 60% crema on top of 40% coffee. Im probably 90% coffee, 10% crema and thats being generous.
> 
> 2) I am struggling to dial in this coffee. See below:
> 
> From some cheap beans I bought from Sainsburys I knew that to get a 1:2 extraction in approx 30 seconds i needed to be grinding at about 5 on the Dose Control Pro.
> 
> Im down to 2 on the grinder now and my 18g dose (well tamped and level as far as I can see) is hits 40g out at 20s. 10 of that is PI! Ive basically got nowhere to go on the grinder?
> 
> Am i doing something wrong here?
> 
> Inside the grinder there is further adjustment on the top burr. if anyone is familiar with Sage grinders please can you let me know if I should be messing with this? I dont want to make the burrs touch!
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> I can take pics if that helps
> 
> Methy


Hey Methy,

Just wanna add; apart from the grind size, and tamp pressure which you're already aware of, perhaps investigate the distribution of grinds too?

I've learnt that even if the top surface of the grounds is rather flat (in the PF) prior to tamping, the sub-surface distribution of grinds could be non-uniform. So, there could be channeling going on somewhere there despite tamping. This could also lead to faster extraction.

I'm currently experimenting with the WDT (Weiss distribution technique) myself. Don't know if it would help your situation.

matt


----------



## Nick1881

Someone posted somewhere a stainless steel shot measure that would fit the Sage 53mm portafilter, anyone seen it? Been searching for a while and not found it again.

Otherwise I ordered the funnel that was linked on ebay, I may be able to invert the Niche cup into that.


----------



## Shortty

Hi

Just joined the club today with a DTP... Upgrade from a delonghi scultura that died.. Currently looking at grinders. Still deciding if its worth the expense, or whether a manual or a hacked delonghi kg79 would suffice for a while....?

Is the performance enough to justify the price..?

Thanks!


----------



## joey24dirt

Shortty said:


> Hi
> 
> Just joined the club today with a DTP... Upgrade from a delonghi scultura that died.. Currently looking at grinders. Still deciding if its worth the expense, or whether a manual or a hacked delonghi kg79 would suffice for a while....?
> 
> Is the performance enough to justify the price..?
> 
> Thanks!


With a good grinder, the DTP will pull a great shot. If you can gather up around £200 for your grinder you will do well to look for a Mazzer SJ or a Mignon.


----------



## Tonino

Sage own grinders are also good for espresso and if you are drinking one or two coffees a day SGP will suit you well, best user friendly grinder on a budget, wide range of settings too. With a good grinder and good beans even Delonghi or Krups or Saeco Poemia will pull a great shots. Smart Grinder Pro is a kind of a base from where you need to look upwards if you really want to get real espresso experience, anything less won't get you anywhere.


----------



## Shortty

joey24dirt said:


> With a good grinder, the DTP will pull a great shot. If you can gather up around £200 for your grinder you will do well to look for a Mazzer SJ or a Mignon.


Thanks, the mignon manuale looks pretty reasonable. That or look for a second hand one I think. Either e

Should be a pretty good improvement on the store bought pre ground stuff I'm using at the moment!


----------



## Shortty

Tonino said:


> Sage own grinders are also good for espresso and if you are drinking one or two coffees a day SGP will suit you well, best user friendly grinder on a budget, wide range of settings too. With a good grinder and good beans even Delonghi or Krups or Saeco Poemia will pull a great shots. Smart Grinder Pro is a kind of a base from where you need to look upwards if you really want to get real espresso experience, anything less won't get you anywhere.


Would you say the sage is good enough? I'm reading on here that people seem to prefer spending more to get a niche, eureka or mazzer..

Is it worth me spending the extra £100 for a new mignon manuale at this level..?


----------



## Tonino

The names you mentioned are machines and the Sage is a company that make appliances , that's the major difference but price is also different, right. I never looked to spend more than what I did for my set up, ( Sage duo temp pro and sgp), now more than a year I am so happy with them that I don't even think of changing them at all until they are dead. You can look at sgp on YouTube there are very informative videos, Whole latte love and Seattle coffee gear are both very good channels to watch. Sgp imo can grind perfectly fine for an espresso shot , I can't compare with higher level prosumer machines, but for a home barista on a budget it's a win win.


----------



## Shortty

Sorry, yes when I say Sage I'm referring to the SGP.

OK, I'm 90% convinced to get the SGP to go with my DTP.. Pity the 35% codes aren't working!


----------



## Shortty

Also, I presume it's not really worth getting a 2nd hand SGP, in the same way you would a Mazzer or Niche?


----------



## jgp

As another data point  I've paired a Baratza Sette 270 refurb from coffeehit with my DTP and I love the combination. Been rock solid for 9 months so far. Love the ease of adjustment to dial in beans, the speed, the fluffiness of the grinds.


----------



## TheHToad

Just wondering which IMS shower screen fits the DTP, I've read that people use the IMS﻿﻿ La ﻿Spaz﻿ shower﻿﻿ screen﻿﻿, but the size is 48.4. Am I missing something here?


----------



## 17845

Try to look past the decor (waiting for a council kitchen upgrade)

Sage equipment, Lavazza cups etc', Motta accessories and a Gaggia knock box from my last outfit.


----------



## oceanrat88

Need some advice....

I replaced the silicone seal a few weeks ago as the old one had a tear, and was old and stiff.

Now, almost every time when I take the portafilter out of the machine the basket comes out and is stuck on to the machine, which is quite annoying! I have tried refitting it and it seems to be in the right position so I can't work out what is going on. Any help appreciated!


----------



## ajohn

oceanrat88 said:


> Need some advice....
> 
> I replaced the silicone seal a few weeks ago as the old one had a tear, and was old and stiff.
> 
> Now, almost every time when I take the portafilter out of the machine the basket comes out and is stuck on to the machine, which is quite annoying! I have tried refitting it and it seems to be in the right position so I can't work out what is going on. Any help appreciated!


 The rings can be a bit sticky so try scrubbing with soap and water. You are likely to need this by the sound of it.

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/parts-accessories/parts/sp0020027.html

John

-


----------



## E404

So it looks like I'm almost certainly going to join the gang here after much deliberation, seems to be the value option and as I'm a first time espresso maker looks to have heat stability which will help me as a learner. I'm going to pair it with a Eureka Specialita.

My question is what accessories should I buy considering once I've purchased my DTP? As in upgrading the ones that will come with it and anything else I'll need on my journey.

Thanks.


----------



## ashcroc

E404 said:


> So it looks like I'm almost certainly going to join the gang here after much deliberation, seems to be the value option and as I'm a first time espresso maker looks to have heat stability which will help me as a learner. I'm going to pair it with a Eureka Specialita.
> My question is what accessories should I buy considering once I've purchased my DTP? As in upgrading the ones that will come with it and anything else I'll need on my journey.
> Thanks.


Off the top of my head you'll be wanting a set of 0.1g scales (I use this set so they needn't be expensive) for weighing your dose & shot. A milk pitcher (if it doesn't come with one) & a thermometer/temp strip for it. A knock box ( the grindenstein mini is quite cheap or sage do a nice one if you want to stay on brand). Maybe also a tamping mat/stand, portafilter dosing ring & a better tamper than the one that comes with the machine.


----------



## E404

Perfect, that's just the kind of check list I was looking for, I have the milk pitcher, the green one from coffeehit sales section and I have those exact scales, Knock box will be next and the thermometer I'd overlooked. I've seen some nice custom tampers on here maybe I'll grab one of those.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## MildredM

Suitable cups, sizes for the drinks you want to make


----------



## matted

I recently bought a DTP also.

Immediate list - nearly all came with the used machine i bought. Found the following most essential

Tamper

Jug - original that came with plus also bought a rhinowares one too from coffeehit

Beans ?

Not essential but have also been useful for me

Distribution / Levelling tool

Dosing ring

Happy brewing


----------



## MC1

Not 'equipment' as such but cloths to wipe the steam arm after use.

Easily forgotten but always needed. I just use the blue washing up cloths as they are very cheap.


----------



## ashcroc

MC1 said:


> Not 'equipment' as such but cloths to wipe the steam arm after use.
> Easily forgotten but always needed. I just use the blue washing up cloths as they are very cheap.


Oh yeah, forgot about that.
A separate cloth to dry the portafilter/basket after flushing is also handy.


----------



## E404

Made a couple of espresso drinks earlier with the supplied QC fail beans from BB, I've either been really lucky or my taste buds aren't up to much as the drinks were delicious with a bit of steamed milk added. Got some Method Roasters espresso blend to put in next.


----------



## Barthelemy

Hello, Full newbie here so apologize in advance for all the blasphemy I will let through my message !!! we had a very basic less than 100 bucks krups espresso machine (with portafiller) during the last 4 years, we have been happy with the coffee the machine made and then few days ago, the machine just died (fair enough, we never really took care of it properly). We have always used pre grounded Lavazza like coffee with it FYI.

After reading a lot on a good starter espresso machine, we ended up buying the Sage DTP + a Delonghi KG79 grinder + some presto beans. We received all this today at lunch, we followed all the instructions to start the Sage DTP properly and then we quickly made as a first test a coffee with our left over of pre-grounded Lavazza rossa, we used the one shot pre-grounded filter in the portafiller (you have choice of 4 : 1 cup or 2 cup fresh ground or 1 or 2 cup pre ground) and just had a quick small mug of it, nice and tasty, good start 

We got back home this evening, curious, we wanted to try the Presto beans and the grinder. We did grind 2 cup worth (by the way, the delonghi tend to grind more than 2 cup even if it is 2 cup that is selected - It is quite a cheap grinder so I guess it is not a precision tool - Do you keep the fresh ground coffee for the day after in general ? It would seem a waste to throw the left over in the bin !) and we used the fresh ground coffee filters for the portafiller. We were all excited to taste the result and big disapointment, we ended up with a watery coffee !!! Clearly, there is a taste of coffee, strong but clearly as well, the liquid coming out of the portafiller is not dark enough compare to the test of the lunch with the pre-ground coffee.

We did some more test with our freshly ground coffee and it improved by using the the pre-ground filter in the portafiller rather then the fresh ground filter, it did some more foam/mousse on top of our espresso, but still, it was watery, something is missing.

We do believe we have an issue maybe with the grinder, I think the fresh coffee we ground was not ground in a proper fashion and this is why the water goes through it too quickly in the portafiler and makes it watery.

I did clean at first the KG79 grinder as they were advising, I did clean the burr/grind mecanism, the piece you can take out and replaced it I think correctly, I tested it on 3/4 towards coarse and medium, the ground coffee looked fine to me but when I look at the portafiler after the espresso was made, it was not like a flat surface of wet coffee, more like a moon surface full of crater (mmh I'm exagerating but you get the idea ?).

Would you have any advice for us on what could be our problem ?

Cannot drink more coffee for tonight so will continue our test tomorrow, will retry the pregrounded LAvazza coffee

Thank you


----------



## Lilybell2

Is it possible to return the grinder? It's really not designed for espresso, so it's putting you at a real disadvantage.


----------



## Barthelemy

Lilybell2 said:


> Is it possible to return the grinder? It's really not designed for espresso, so it's putting you at a real disadvantage.


 Thanks much for the quick answer, yes, bought it with john lewis, pretty sure I can bring it back. Now, would have any preferably cheap option in mind ? I would prefer to not spend 100 pounds if I have the choice


----------



## Barthelemy

Now I read a bit more about grinder and it looks like I cannot escape the 100 pounds buy...I did not think that the grind was that important ! 

Does the sage would do the trick ?

https://www.johnlewis.com/sage-the-smart-grinder-pro-coffee-grinder/p1591194

Or any other cheaper options ?

I'm not looking for the perfection but at least a good espresso grind, not a watery one


----------



## KTD

Barthelemy said:


> Thanks much for the quick answer, yes, bought it with john lewis, pretty sure I can bring it back. Now, would have any preferably cheap option in mind ? I would prefer to not spend 100 pounds if I have the choice


Unfortunately the kg79 isn't an espresso grinder, the best priced new acceptable grinder is the sage grinder pro, £144 with John Lewis at the minute which is about as low as they have been.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Barthelemy

OK thank you guys for your help, looks like I will have to buy the sage grinder pro


----------



## Tonino

You can still use the delonghi grinder but make sure you are using it only with pressurised baskets, those with one hole on the back. Like that you won't get best of your DTP machine but can still drink a tasty espresso as long as your beans are fresh and freshly ground.


----------



## Gary5709

Hi, just wondered if anyone has any other good tips for descaling? I'm having quite a lot of trouble with mine at the moment. I use either distilled vinegar or puly powder but still having a lot of trouble with my steam wand. Either that or the machines losing pressure maybe?


----------



## ashcroc

Gary5709 said:


> Hi, just wondered if anyone has any other good tips for descaling? I'm having quite a lot of trouble with mine at the moment. I use either distilled vinegar or puly powder but still having a lot of trouble with my steam wand. Either that or the machines losing pressure maybe?


Don't bother with vinegar, it'll never be strong enough to descale properly. I assume you mean puly descaler & not puppy caff?


----------



## Gary5709

Yeah it's the descaler


----------



## ajohn

One of Sage's engineers told me that Sage did suggest that vinegar should be used for descaling but eventually produced their own. Actually vinegar is not that bad a descaler but has obvious problems.

John

-


----------



## Barthelemy

Tonino said:


> You can still use the delonghi grinder but make sure you are using it only with pressurised baskets, those with one hole on the back. Like that you won't get best of your DTP machine but can still drink a tasty espresso as long as your beans are fresh and freshly ground.


 Hey thanks for the tip but I ended up with the Sage Smart Grinder, John Lewis has nicely took back my Delonghi, I received the SGP yesterday and I'm on a testing mode since  Still, I'm curious, what is a pressurized basket ? I mean do you have a link ?

The SGP works very nicely, it looks like I almost found my Espresso grind with following parameters (but as you will read, outcome is not consistent) :

- Grind time : 18.4

- Shots : 2

- Grind level : 7

- I'm using the original portafiller of the DTP with 1 of the 4 original baskets provided with the DTP ( the one for 2 shots - Fresh grounded coffee)

Several points and issues I have :

- Inconsistency of the Espresso quality even with the same grind parameters : It looks like the tampering and also the way you lock the portafiller can have an important effect on the outcome, I do not have the impression to do something a lot different each time but the taste and the texture can be really different, any tip about the tampering and the lock of the portafiller ? I'm using the original Tamper coming withe the DTP and for the portafiller lock, shoud I go each time at max lock ?

- Also, linked to consistency, It is very difficult to know how long I wait before stopping the water to get down the portafiller. Sometimes, it will take sometimes for the Water to go through the portafiller and sometimes it will be a tiny quicker, is there a trick about looking at the crema starting to appear for example ? I do not think that relying on a clock is the solution ?

-The most important problem for me is the temperature of my Espresso, it is not very hot and Maybe it plays on the consistency of the outcome as well. I read on this forum that it was a general issue with the DTP and it looks like the best way is to wait few minutes for the machine to heat, then to run a drop of water withe the portafiller on without basket to make the portafiller warm enough. Doing this, I had 1 or 2 times an effective hot Es[resso but most of the other time, it was only warmish, sometimes even after 4 or 5 use in a row so I'm not fully sure about this heating consistency...Any tip on this matter ? IS my DTP could have an issue

- To finish, what I have noticed , when I grind on a thinner level (less than 5..) or if I tamper strongly with a thin grind (not too sure what is the cause, or the thinness of the grind, or the strenght I apply when I tamper), obviously the water/coffee takes ages to come through and when it comes through, it is drop by drop only on 1 beak and then after few seconds of running with the size of (not even) ristreto, the DTP stops to provide water and put it self in warming mode, this seems really strange to me as it should only stops once I turned off the the main button. Maybe there is a sensor that stops the water to come through if the portafiller gets too full of water for a certain time ?

Please remember I'm a newbie so what seems obvious to you is maybe not for me 

Thank you for any help !


----------



## Barthelemy

I have done some other tests with same parameters of grind stated above and something strange is happening.

I swtich on the DTP for 5 minutes without doing anything, to let the system heat properly, I make an empty run with portafiller and basket with the DTP, the idea is to warm the portafiller and basket before use with the warm water. I then fill up the portafiller and basket with my shot of freshly grounded coffee, I tamper the coffee, not too strongly, and I then lock the portafiller onto the DTP, locking it quite strongly.

I start the DTP, it takes at least 20 to 30 seconds for the first drops of coffee to fall down my cup, the slow dripping is continuing for 10 to 15 seconds filling up my cup with a rather small amount of coffee and not much cream, and then suddenly, the DTP puts itself in heating mode.

Is it normal that the DTP is switching itself to heating mode (the main power button is blinking) after maybe 40 seconds of run ?

And the coffee is not really hot, despite waiting 5 minutes, heating the portafiller basket and serving in a cup that is warm....

Thank you


----------



## matted

it sounds like the grind is too fine

first drops for me with my DTP and grind dialled in is about 6 to 10 seconds, with a full shot extraction about 25 to 30 seconds getting about 35g out.

have you read this guidance and advice?

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/21319-beginners-reading-weighing-espresso-brew-ratios/?do=embed

the DTP will time out a shot when left running with portafilter in.


----------



## Milanski

Heyup DTP experts! My neighbour is looking to buy one of these. How's everyone finding this machine? Does it have a small temp fluctuation window or is there an element of temp surfing involved? Any other limitations I should be aware of?
Thanks!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


----------



## ashcroc

Milanski said:


> Heyup DTP experts! My neighbour is looking to buy one of these. How's everyone finding this machine? Does it have a small temp fluctuation window or is there an element of temp surfing involved? Any other limitations I should be aware of?
> Thanks!
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


It has a (non adjustable) PID so temp stability is good.


----------



## Barthelemy

matted said:


> it sounds like the grind is too fine
> 
> first drops for me with my DTP and grind dialled in is about 6 to 10 seconds, with a full shot extraction about 25 to 30 seconds getting about 35g out.
> 
> have you read this guidance and advice?
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/21319-beginners-reading-weighing-espresso-brew-ratios/?do=embed
> 
> the DTP will time out a shot when left running with portafilter in.


 Thanks for the instructive reading, Scale ordered, lets go scientific


----------



## Border_all

Hope on Monday I will have a DTP then the fun can commence

Allan


----------



## Uriel4953

I have mine sitting in a box waiting for xmas morning.


----------



## Border_all

Uriel4953 said:


> I have mine sitting in a box waiting for xmas morning.


 Most excellent glad Santa will be on time this year.

Deep in thought as do i get a grinder, complicated business this coffee making

Enjoy


----------



## Uriel4953

Border_all said:


> Most excellent glad Santa will be on time this year.
> 
> Deep in thought as do i get a grinder, complicated business this coffee making
> 
> Enjoy


 Yeah i kinda took my budget out back and shot it, when it came to the grinder. But i don't really regret it. It won't lose me a lot if i hate it and end up selling it second hand although that is extremely doubtful.


----------



## Border_all

Uriel4953 said:


> Yeah i kinda took my budget out back and shot it, when it came to the grinder. But i don't really regret it. It won't lose me a lot if i hate it and end up selling it second hand although that is extremely doubtful.


 What grinder did you go for please?


----------



## Uriel4953

Niche Zero.


----------



## Border_all

That looks great hope the blown budget is well justified


----------



## dncarreira

*Temperature on DTP - how to improve*

Dear DTPers, I am a fan, but am desolated at the same time, because my DTP runs too cold... let me explain.

Like another user in another thread, my DTP runs water at 85ish ºC. Too low as we know. So I run some steam after letting the machine heat for 10min before it standbys. Measured it and it goes from 93ºC to 96ºC and then quickly drops to 81ºC. I guess I'm not alone in this by reading online but haven't seen really any measurement along time like I've done with a thermocouple stuck in the PF and filming.

This really discouraged me... because apart from dark roasts everything is sour... some more some less. I also have an old gaggia classic and I can compare.

I have been looking at other machines but the problem is all machines have difficulties and there's no guaranty it will work better. Even the sage bes875 has the same heating element so I would never risk it... lelit's run on a small boiler so the temp will also drop a lot. Unless of course you shell out a few thousands... I really love this machine - it's simple, elegant, smart, froths milk, it's cheap, what more can you want, right?

My question really is: are there any mods for higher temperature and stability? Any way to install a measuring kit? Or even better change the pid behavior? Any other tips to solve this? Are new machines better?

Thanks.


----------



## MWJB

You're measuring 85c in the basket, with appropriate resistance? It's just you said "PF". I'd expect liquid exiting the PF to be cooler than brew water temp.


----------



## dncarreira

Not with resistance, just in the PF without filter, running water through. Thermo inside the PF.


----------



## TomHughes

So I've think I've been having the same issues with my DTP. I've always noticed it was a bit on the cold side, but I thought through the warm up regime on the other thread I'd got it near temp.

But I've always liked dark roasts, and now I'm trying lighter and lighter roasts and getting just sourness from them.

I did some temp tests this morning, digital thermometer in heated cup directly under group without shower screen. So maybe a couple of degrees drop? 
anyway. 
Without W/U it was 79C! 
after making 1 coffee (impatient wife) it was 82C

Then let sit warming up for 5.

Then steam wand purge straight away into shot it was 83C

This is water directly out of group so I don't think it can have lost that much heat.

All in all a bit rubbish!

dncarreria when was it you got 92-96? Straight after purging steam?

Anyone else found a better way of getting to temp? I think if I can't I'm going to ditch this.

it has the Lakeland lifetime warranty, has anyone tried actually returning it under that?


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> So I've think I've been having the same issues with my DTP. I've always noticed it was a bit on the cold side, but I thought through the warm up regime on the other thread I'd got it near temp.
> 
> But I've always liked dark roasts, and now I'm trying lighter and lighter roasts and getting just sourness from them.
> 
> I did some temp tests this morning, digital thermometer in heated cup directly under group without shower screen. So maybe a couple of degrees drop?
> anyway.
> Without W/U it was 79C!
> after making 1 coffee (impatient wife) it was 82C
> 
> Then let sit warming up for 5.
> 
> Then steam wand purge straight away into shot it was 83C
> 
> This is water directly out of group so I don't think it can have lost that much heat.
> 
> All in all a bit rubbish!
> 
> dncarreria when was it you got 92-96? Straight after purging steam?
> 
> Anyone else found a better way of getting to temp? I think if I can't I'm going to ditch this.
> 
> it has the Lakeland lifetime warranty, has anyone tried actually returning it under that?


 How old is your machine. Thinking if almost new the lifetime you refer too may be not important I bought mine off Lakeland with a 3 year warranty but you still get what you are entitled under the law ie fit for purpose.

i have not got a thermometer so i can not run the test you have I know after pulling the espresso my machine takes perhaps 30 seconds for the steam to stabilise my understanding was the temperature was increasing. Once I switch off the steam mine drops hot water into the tray and I can run another shot.

Not a direct answer but you are I imagine entitled under the law for fit for purpose subject to duration you have owned the machine.


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> How old is your machine. Thinking if almost new the lifetime you refer too may be not important I bought mine off Lakeland with a 3 year warranty but you still get what you are entitled under the law ie fit for purpose.
> 
> i have not got a thermometer so i can not run the test you have I know after pulling the espresso my machine takes perhaps 30 seconds for the steam to stabilise my understanding was the temperature was increasing. Once I switch off the steam mine drops hot water into the tray and I can run another shot.
> 
> Not a direct answer but you are I imagine entitled under the law for fit for purpose subject to duration you have owned the machine.


 It's about 4 years old now.

just did a full clean and descale and only managed to get it up to 84 deg!


----------



## dncarreira

TomHughes to get it hotter I used the steam wand for a few seconds to let it heat. I'm going to try that again since I don't remember how much preheating time it rested nor how many flushes to heat the brew head I did... This time I want to measure the temp along more time.


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> It's about 4 years old now.
> 
> just did a full clean and descale and only managed to get it up to 84 deg!


 Sadly then other than organising a repair I doubt Lakeland could help. Did you have in mind something you would replace with if you failed in achieving the heat you required


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> Sadly then other than organising a repair I doubt Lakeland could help. Did you have in mind something you would replace with if you failed in achieving the heat you required


 When it was bought for me they offered a lifetime guarantee on it. 
Yes I'll be going back to the classic for now potentially with a PID mod


----------



## TomHughes

dncarreira said:


> TomHughes to get it hotter I used the steam wand for a few seconds to let it heat. I'm going to try that again since I don't remember how much preheating time it rested nor how many flushes to heat the brew head I did... This time I want to measure the temp along more time.


 Do you use the steam wand then let it purge?


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> When it was bought for me they offered a lifetime guarantee on it.
> Yes I'll be going back to the classic for now potentially with a PID mod


 That is interesting regarding lifetime warranty I would like that my receipt specifically shows 3 years. I hope you get it sorted ?


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> That is interesting regarding lifetime warranty I would like that my receipt specifically shows 3 years. I hope you get it sorted ?


 Yes I rang them just now and it seems they will replace it. 
Although I haven't told them about the DIY naked portafilter yet!

Not sure if I should have it replaced or get a refund/upgrade.


----------



## dncarreira

TomHughes said:


> Do you use the steam wand then let it purge?


 Yes. I tried not letting it purge after steaming and the portafilter practically exploded...


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Yes I rang them just now and it seems they will replace it.
> Although I haven't told them about the DIY naked portafilter yet!
> 
> Not sure if I should have it replaced or get a refund/upgrade.


 That is fantastic service pity if you had more time i have a sneaky feeling you could have had a swap for the portafilter

Perhaps the upgrade would be nice only issue in my local store they don't hold much stock


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> That is fantastic service pity if you had more time i have a sneaky feeling you could have had a swap for the portafilter
> 
> Perhaps the upgrade would be nice only issue in my local store they don't hold much stock


 If it becomes a sticking point we can swap if you like!


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> If it becomes a sticking point we can swap if you like!


 Cheers though if you have anything like the experience i had with a dud dualit machine you'll probably be fine. Barely looked at my return in and out in minutes though mine was less than 4 days old ?. Would have been faster but they needed to order stock in.


----------



## matted

This is depressing reading about temp stability. Will have to investigate mine when home if i can find a thermometer.

Are lakeland exchanging for a new one?


----------



## TomHughes

matted said:


> This is depressing reading about temp stability. Will have to investigate mine when home if i can find a thermometer.
> 
> Are lakeland exchanging for a new one?


 They are giving me a refund as I didn't want to have the same issue again. I know someone who has a BE and they had to put their PID up to reach 92. 
I think mine is just under-heating, compared to others. But I have been playing about with it and the best I can do in measuring the water in a super heated ceramic cup just below the group head (no shower screen) is 83C

So I think mine is abnormally low. The other thread someone said they measured at the same point and got to 93.


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> Cheers though if you have anything like the experience i had with a dud dualit machine you'll probably be fine. Barely looked at my return in and out in minutes though mine was less than 4 days old ?. Would have been faster but they needed to order stock in.


 Did you want this Naked PF before it goes back? 
If not does anyone else?


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Did you want this Naked PF before it goes back?
> If not does anyone else?


 Where are you based i am in Teesside?

cheers


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Did you want this Naked PF before it goes back?
> If not does anyone else?


 Bit hopeful do you have a picture please?


----------



## MWJB

TomHughes said:


> So I've think I've been having the same issues with my DTP. I've always noticed it was a bit on the cold side, but I thought through the warm up regime on the other thread I'd got it near temp.
> 
> But I've always liked dark roasts, and now I'm trying lighter and lighter roasts and getting just sourness from them.
> 
> I did some temp tests this morning, digital thermometer in heated cup directly under group without shower screen. So maybe a couple of degrees drop?
> anyway.
> Without W/U it was 79C!
> after making 1 coffee (impatient wife) it was 82C
> 
> Then let sit warming up for 5.
> 
> Then steam wand purge straight away into shot it was 83C
> 
> This is water directly out of group so I don't think it can have lost that much heat.
> 
> All in all a bit rubbish!
> 
> dncarreria when was it you got 92-96? Straight after purging steam?
> 
> Anyone else found a better way of getting to temp? I think if I can't I'm going to ditch this.
> 
> it has the Lakeland lifetime warranty, has anyone tried actually returning it under that?


 I just heated water to a rolling boil, heated a cup and then poured 60g in about 20s into the cup. I got 76c in the cup.

I'm not sure your test is realistic.


----------



## Border_all

MWJB said:


> I just heated water to a rolling boil, heated a cup and then poured 60g in about 20s into the cup. I got 76c in the cup.
> 
> I'm not sure your test is realistic.


 Please forgive my ignorance but do you mean that 60g of boiling water during a 20 second pour had dropped to 76c. If so that's really surprising really thinking here of kettle and making tea


----------



## MWJB

Border_all said:


> Please forgive my ignorance but do you mean that 60g of boiling water during a 20 second pour had dropped to 76c. If so that's really surprising really thinking here of kettle and making tea


 Yes, that's what I mean.

Even pouring boiling water into a cupping bowl (larger mass of water, faster pour rate) makes it hard to end up with a temp of over 90c in the cup.


----------



## Border_all

MWJB said:


> Yes, that's what I mean.
> 
> Even pouring boiling water into a cupping bowl (larger mass of water, faster pour rate) makes it hard to end up with a temp of over 90c in the cup.


 Thank you i found that fascinating would never have guessed. My reason for asking specifically was i am thinking of ordering a smart kettle so i could adjust the temperature for different tea types but it seems a waste if temperature drops so quickly. many thanks ?


----------



## TomHughes

MWJB said:


> I just heated water to a rolling boil, heated a cup and then poured 60g in about 20s into the cup. I got 76c in the cup.
> 
> I'm not sure your test is realistic.


 Thanks I just tested this with a kettle in the exact same way I did it with the sage (shower screen off) so full espresso cup much faster than 20s. 
I got 95 in the cup with a digital thermometer. This was a le crueset cup that holds temp very well. 
So with the sage barely getting to 84 I still think it's not quite hitting temp. 
maybe I'm wrong. Too late now really!


----------



## ashcroc

TomHughes said:


> Thanks I just tested this with a kettle in the exact same way I did it with the sage (shower screen off) so full espresso cup much faster than 20s.
> I got 95 in the cup with a digital thermometer. This was a le crueset cup that holds temp very well.
> So with the sage barely getting to 84 I still think it's not quite hitting temp.
> maybe I'm wrong. Too late now really!


Testing with a faster flow will give the thermocoil less time to heat the water passing through it.


----------



## TomHughes

ashcroc said:


> TomHughes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks I just tested this with a kettle in the exact same way I did it with the sage (shower screen off) so full espresso cup much faster than 20s.
> I got 95 in the cup with a digital thermometer. This was a le crueset cup that holds temp very well.
> So with the sage barely getting to 84 I still think it's not quite hitting temp.
> maybe I'm wrong. Too late now really!
> 
> 
> 
> Testing with a faster flow will give the thermocoil less time to heat the water passing through it.
Click to expand...

 Ah ok! Maybe it was up to temp then!


----------



## TomHughes

So after reading the above I decided to do some more measurements. Using a pre heated espresso cup and a thermometer with the sensor right at the very tip (most are 1-2cm up) I got readings of the water as it was exiting the group and as it was running

Without any warm up procedure the first temp was 79, dropping to 76 as it ran too fast though the thermocoil.

After the laborious warm up of running a full cup, then steam wand then wait, the first temp was 83C, this then dropped to 80 as it ran. Still rubbish!

So I tried to trick it slightly and put the steam wand on, and then flipped to run the shot before it could purge. big steam cloud and I hit 84!

All in all I still think it's under-heating.

The thing is now what do I replace it with? Lakeland have given me back the €315 it cost. I'm considering the barista pro, but I don't need the built in grinder.


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> So after reading the above I decided to do some more measurements. Using a pre heated espresso cup and a thermometer with the sensor right at the very tip (most are 1-2cm up) I got readings of the water as it was exiting the group and as it was running
> 
> Without any warm up procedure the first temp was 79, dropping to 76 as it ran too fast though the thermocoil.
> 
> After the laborious warm up of running a full cup, then steam wand then wait, the first temp was 83C, this then dropped to 80 as it ran. Still rubbish!
> 
> So I tried to trick it slightly and put the steam wand on, and then flipped to run the shot before it could purge. big steam cloud and I hit 84!
> 
> All in all I still think it's under-heating.
> 
> The thing is now what do I replace it with? Lakeland have given me back the €315 it cost. I'm considering the barista pro, but I don't need the built in grinder.


 Congratulations on getting your money back ?


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> Congratulations on getting your money back ?


 Yeh, they haven't got it back yet! 
Not sure you're going to want this PF, just damaged the rubber ring on it!


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Yeh, they haven't got it back yet!
> Not sure you're going to want this PF, just damaged the rubber ring on it!


 No worries just concentrate on getting your money back guessing you are in Ireland or such as your in Euro currency so posting back and forth is perhaps a bit of a faff


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> No worries just concentrate on getting your money back guessing you are in Ireland or such as your in Euro currency so posting back and forth is perhaps a bit of a faff


 Oh, I'm in the UK but have a Finnish keyboard and can never locate the pound sign (plus it's a symbol of my pro-remain stance!)


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Oh, I'm in the UK but have a Finnish keyboard and can never locate the pound sign (plus it's a symbol of my pro-remain stance!)


 Pro remain stance sounds good


----------



## ashcroc

TomHughes said:


> Oh, I'm in the UK but have a Finnish keyboard and can never locate the pound sign (plus it's a symbol of my pro-remain stance!)


Unicode £ is alt+0163 alt+L may also work if the Finnish keyboard is set the same as a US one.


----------



## dncarreira

ashcroc said:


> TomHughes said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks I just tested this with a kettle in the exact same way I did it with the sage (shower screen off) so full espresso cup much faster than 20s.
> I got 95 in the cup with a digital thermometer. This was a le crueset cup that holds temp very well.
> So with the sage barely getting to 84 I still think it's not quite hitting temp.
> maybe I'm wrong. Too late now really!
> 
> 
> 
> Testing with a faster flow will give the thermocoil less time to heat the water passing through it.
Click to expand...

 That's a really good point. I have a blind silicon disk that curiously has a small hole in the center. It also let's some water through the sides so I'm thinking that I can get the thermocouple in the hole and simulate a small flow quite nicely. I'll try to test temps like this though at this point I have little expectations. Has anyone measured good temps on a DTP?


----------



## TomHughes

Looks like a barista pro on its way as a replacement. I don't need the internal grinder but now I have a spare one for decaf!

Interestingly sage claims on their site that for the BP the optimal dose is 19-22g in the same 54mm (presumably not deeper) basket as the DTP. This seems very high! I tend to dose 18-18.5 depending on the bean.


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Looks like a barista pro on its way as a replacement. I don't need the internal grinder but now I have a spare one for decaf!
> 
> Interestingly sage claims on their site that for the BP the optimal dose is 19-22g in the same 54mm (presumably not deeper) basket as the DTP. This seems very high! I tend to dose 18-18.5 depending on the bean.


 Glad you decided on a course of action. If you can sort the rubber ring out you could probably use the PF you have now. Enjoy


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> Glad you decided on a course of action. If you can sort the rubber ring out you could probably use the PF you have now. Enjoy


 Yep that's the plan! send the new one back with the DTP.

I've been inspired by Joeys work on here so have a nice hammer handle that will be on the old PF soon!


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Yep that's the plan! send the new one back with the DTP.
> 
> I've been inspired by Joeys work on here so have a nice hammer handle that will be on the old PF soon!


 I may look at a pf naked mod after i get more organised got a few things i am looking at

calibrate new grinder

knock box

tamper calibrated would be nice but wow pricey

new cups

been storage got one but fancy more

get better at milk steamer lol

few things on the table for 2020

?


----------



## dncarreira

dncarreira said:


> That's a really good point. I have a blind silicon disk that curiously has a small hole in the center. It also let's some water through the sides so I'm thinking that I can get the thermocouple in the hole and simulate a small flow quite nicely. I'll try to test temps like this though at this point I have little expectations. Has anyone measured good temps on a DTP?


 I've done this and results are similar but much more stable. After a good heating period and a steam I even got to 99ºC. But with more time after the steaming I got a result where temps were between 96-93ºC.

This now begs the question: if not temps then why the sourness. I'm now going to try to overextract by grinding as fine as the dtp can handle even with longer brew times (dtp shuts the water at 60secs).


----------



## MWJB

dncarreira said:


> I've done this and results are similar but much more stable. After a good heating period and a steam I even got to 99ºC. But with more time after the steaming I got a result where temps were between 96-93ºC.
> 
> This now begs the question: if not temps then why the sourness. I'm now going to try to overextract by grinding as fine as the dtp can handle even with longer brew times (dtp shuts the water at 60secs).


 This may not give you over-extraction, it's quite easy to grind too fine & drop extraction.

If you want extraction to go up, the easiest way is to back off the grind to a typical But even at 1:5 or 1:6 you might be hitting the practical ceiling. You may however get the flavour to balance out better, if the drink is too weak - gradually go finer & shorter to bolster the strength, but without reintroducing sourness.


----------



## dncarreira

MWJB said:


> This may not give you over-extraction, it's quite easy to grind too fine & drop extraction.
> 
> If you want extraction to go up, the easiest way is to back off the grind to a typical But even at 1:5 or 1:6 you might be hitting the practical ceiling. You may however get the flavour to balance out better, if the drink is too weak - gradually go finer & shorter to bolster the strength, but without reintroducing sourness.


 Could you explain a bit better? I could not understand... Back off grinding and increase ratio to 1:3-1:6? Keep time 25-30s?


----------



## MWJB

dncarreira said:


> Could you explain a bit better? I could not understand... Back off grinding and increase ratio to 1:3-1:6? Keep time 25-30s?


 Basically yes.

If you grind very fine, the puck permeability drops, so at a given ratio, as you grind finer extraction will rise, then it will begin to drop again.

Shorter brew ratios can make it harder to hit high (non-sour) extractions because you're simply not putting enough water through the puck.

Even if you stretch out the brew ratio to 1:5 or 1:6 you're still likely to only hit your normal range of extraction, but it will be easier to do so. Then you can trim back on the ratio, grinding finer as necessary.

Time is too vague a parameter to nail down to a 5s window. It varies greatly from one coffee to the next & one grinder to the next. Your shots, even at a long brew ratio might be anywhere from 20-30s at a similar extraction. Record the time but don't put too much meaning on it. Concentrate on the grind setting, at a consistent ratio (so a few at 1:3, or at 1:6, not flitting between the two...adjust grind & ratio methodically in one direction only until you are happy) & how that affects the flavour balance.


----------



## dncarreira

ok, let me get my head around these concepts... 1st time I've heard of long ratios approach...

So, I do a set of grind settings for 1 ratio. Then repeat for another ratio. Choose the best tasting ratio.

Let's say it's 1:4 and it took 28s. How do I reduce it to 1:2? Thanks for your patience!!


----------



## MWJB

Start long & work shorter.

You're still looking at shot time as some kind of guide to quality. This is the case only in extremes, if 18:72g takes 15s then you probably need to grind finer. If it takes a minute, then you can very likely grind coarser & get a cleaner taste at a similar/normal extraction.

For 1:4 you dose 18.0g, pull 72g out (say +/-3g). Taste it & drink the whole shot. Was it sour? If so, try a finer grind. Also look out for dry woody/tree bark flavours. If so, again try a finer grind.

Was it charred, dirty, silty tasting? Grind a little coarser.

When you have a tasty shot with no obvious malfunctions (though it may be weaker/thinner than you are used to), & have pulled a few to show it is largely repeatable (may be little changes shot to shot) go to 1:3.5, or 18:63g. If the sourness is back, grind a little finer & try again, repeating the process that you used for 1:4....and so on, 1:3, 1:2.5, until you get to a ratio that always produces sour shots. When this happens go back to the last ratio that gave you balance for the majority of coffees you have on hand.


----------



## dncarreira

Yeah, I do look at time as a guide and I'm struggling to see how I can get a shot at any ratio without keeping time between some limits. But I get that it kind be just a loose guide.

I will definitely try this approach. If I can keep my dtp it'll be worth it. If not, I'll learn a lot in the process.

As soon as I get to it I'll post my findings. Can't wait really!


----------



## MWJB

dncarreira said:


> Yeah, I do look at time as a guide and I'm struggling to see how I can get a shot at any ratio without keeping time between some limits. But I get that it kind be just a loose guide.


 The flavour follows the grind setting much more closely than it follows the time (all else being the same, re. dose & output).

Good luck


----------



## Border_all

Good morning owners

A question please.... how many of you are changing the water filter every 2 months as Sage recommendation

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/parts-accessories/accessories/ses008wht0neu1.html

£84 pa is substantial amount


----------



## TomHughes

Never used it. Just used filtered/bottled water and descaled often


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Never used it. Just used filtered/bottled water and descaled often


 How often do you descale?

Cheers


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> How often do you descale?
> 
> Cheers


 Every other week, we have a lot of limescale in our area


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> Every other week, we have a lot of limescale in our area


 Cheers. I was thinking every couple of months


----------



## TomHughes

Border_all said:


> Cheers. I was thinking every couple of months


 It would depend on what water you're using with it. Ours scales the kettle in a week. I use a low dose of citric acid every 2 weeks to clean the kettle and the coffee machine


----------



## Border_all

TomHughes said:


> It would depend on what water you're using with it. Ours scales the kettle in a week. I use a low dose of citric acid every 2 weeks to clean the kettle and the coffee machine


 Thankful my water is nowhere near that kettle stays good for years ?


----------



## matted

TomHughes said:


> They are giving me a refund as I didn't want to have the same issue again. I know someone who has a BE and they had to put their PID up to reach 92.
> I think mine is just under-heating, compared to others. But I have been playing about with it and the best I can do in measuring the water in a super heated ceramic cup just below the group head (no shower screen) is 83C
> 
> So I think mine is abnormally low. The other thread someone said they measured at the same point and got to 93.


 bought a thermometer and had a look at my DTP

*unpressurised*

best i could get was 79 at the PF and group head

*pressurised*

managed 90 at the PF with the blanking disc in

edit: should have said this was soon after turn on, no steam prior or surfing.


----------



## Hellmooth

JimBean1 said:


> Sure
> 
> View attachment 19201
> 
> 
> And the results can be something like this...
> 
> View attachment 19202


 Wow, I know this was a while ago but just new! This is possible with a DTP? I can't seem to steal the milk to be able to do that need lots more practice! What beans are in this? Many thanks


----------



## Hellmooth

Hi guys,

Just new to this game so a lot to learn, I have a DTP and it seems really good for my limited experience! Few questions though........

1) Should water always come out the steamer or should it get to steam only? When I purge it gets rid of the main water but then shoots jets of water from then on, is this normal? Thought it might be watering down the milk too much s m struggling to get it really creamy?

2) With the dual wall this does a double espresso? Do I extract all in one go? I noticed the machine auto stops after about 60 seconds is this meant to happen and is it ok to work to this?

Many thanks in advance!


----------



## Border_all

Hi. Has anyone purchased a 54mm tamper and if so is it a good fit. The one i got is not very tight really. Thank you


----------



## -Tristan-

Border_all said:


> Hi. Has anyone purchased a 54mm tamper and if so is it a good fit. The one i got is not very tight really. Thank you


 Hi mate are you using the one which came with the machine?


----------



## Border_all

AvidBean said:


> Hi mate are you using the one which came with the machine?


 Yes. I fancied something a bit better I did find a post from years ago looks like 53mm is about it for the DTP ?


----------



## -Tristan-

Hellmooth said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Just new to this game so a lot to learn, I have a DTP and it seems really good for my limited experience! Few questions though........
> 
> 1) Should water always come out the steamer or should it get to steam only? When I purge it gets rid of the main water but then shoots jets of water from then on, is this normal? Thought it might be watering down the milk too much s m struggling to get it really creamy?
> 
> 2) With the dual wall this does a double espresso? Do I extract all in one go? I noticed the machine auto stops after about 60 seconds is this meant to happen and is it ok to work to this?
> 
> Many thanks in advance!


 How exciting! I have recently picked up the same machine. Great for my limited experience too haha.

*1) Should water always come out the steamer or should it get to steam only?*
Are you seeing a bit of water jet out when you purge before using the steam? If so that's normal.

The DTP produces steam on the fly, so you want to get any condensation out of there first. You'll hear the thumping and some water might come out yes.
After I've frothed my milk, wiped the wand and put it back down, I switch to hot water and squirt some water out to purge it.

Other than that, if you're asking whether it should be squirting hot water into your milk, the answer is no.

*2) With the dual wall this does a double espresso? Do I extract all in one go? I noticed the machine auto stops after about 60 seconds is this meant to happen and is it ok to work to this? *

Yes the dual wall does double espresso, but you should only be using that for pre-ground coffee.

If you're grinding your own beans, toss that dual wall to the side and get out your regular (single walled) basket.

The correct dose for double espresso is 14 - 18 grams. Play around and see what tickles your taste.

You're not going to want to brew anything for more than 30 seconds. It should be in one go, between 20-30 seconds depending on what you've got going on there. If it's too long or too short, revisit your grind, dose and tamp and adjust. You're going to waste coffee getting it right 

The above should have addressed your last question about the auto stop.


----------



## MWJB

-Tristan- said:


> You're not going to want to brew anything for more than 30 seconds. It should be in one go, between 20-30 seconds depending on what you've got going on there. If it's too long or too short, revisit your grind, dose and tamp and adjust. You're going to waste coffee getting it right
> 
> The above should have addressed your last question about the auto stop.


 Don't discard or retune for shots that take more than 30s.

Adjust the grind setting to change the flavour & strength (finer for stronger & to eliminate sourness, coarser if choking the machine and/or getting silty cups).

Aim for the same brew ratio (dose weight vs weight out in cup, for example 1:3 or 18:54g).

The grind setting steers the extraction, time within normal bounds (roughly 25-55s) has little effect.


----------



## -Tristan-

Border_all said:


> Thankful my water is nowhere near that kettle stays good for years ?


 Jealous. I have no filter on my water supply and I'm in London.

Any water incoming goes through my Brita Maxtra Plus before it gets into my glass, kettle, coffee water tank, pot etc.

If it didn't, my kettle for one would be disgusting. With the Brita I literally never have limescale in my kettle.

Not actually sure if I should be using the Brita filtered water in my Duo Temp Pro but hey ho.


----------



## Border_all

-Tristan- said:


> Jealous. I have no filter on my water supply and I'm in London.
> 
> Any water incoming goes through my Brita Maxtra Plus before it gets into my glass, kettle, coffee water tank, pot etc.
> 
> If it didn't, my kettle for one would be disgusting. With the Brita I literally never have limescale in my kettle.
> 
> Not actually sure if I should be using the Brita filtered water in my Duo Temp Pro but hey ho.


 Think i would use the Brita in your case in fact I am looking at that option i iwould love reverse osmosis as reviewed on here but space is an issue for me.


----------



## Border_all

-Tristan- said:


> Jealous. I have no filter on my water supply and I'm in London.
> 
> Any water incoming goes through my Brita Maxtra Plus before it gets into my glass, kettle, coffee water tank, pot etc.
> 
> If it didn't, my kettle for one would be disgusting. With the Brita I literally never have limescale in my kettle.
> 
> Not actually sure if I should be using the Brita filtered water in my Duo Temp Pro but hey ho.


 This is the review if you fancy a read but not cheap...

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/01/06/osmio-zero/


----------



## TomHughes

-Tristan- said:


> Jealous. I have no filter on my water supply and I'm in London.
> 
> Any water incoming goes through my Brita Maxtra Plus before it gets into my glass, kettle, coffee water tank, pot etc.
> 
> If it didn't, my kettle for one would be disgusting. With the Brita I literally never have limescale in my kettle.
> 
> Not actually sure if I should be using the Brita filtered water in my Duo Temp Pro but hey ho.


 Hasn't your water been filtered by like 7 people


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## -Tristan-

TomHughes said:


> Hasn't your water been filtered by like 7 people


 What do you mean mate?


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## TomHughes

-Tristan- said:


> What do you mean mate?


 'Twas a joke about Thames water


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## -Tristan-

TomHughes said:


> 'Twas a joke about Thames water


 Lmao I did think that's what you meant. Haha. God knows what Thames Water do to the water.


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## abs

Hi all,

I have dtp and find that the flow rate to be to fast. I have ground the beans as fine as my grinder will let me and after 14 secs I have 40g of coffee. I fit as much coffee that is physically possible which is about 14/16 g but still it extracts to fast. Any ideas on how to slow it down?


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## MWJB

abs said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have dtp and find that the flow rate to be to fast. I have ground the beans as fine as my grinder will let me and after 14 secs I have 40g of coffee. I fit as much coffee that is physically possible which is about 14/16 g but still it extracts to fast. Any ideas on how to slow it down?


 The basket will usually take more than 16g, try 18 or 19g and see how that goes?

Your double can be larger than 40g if it is still strong enough for you.

Are you saying that your grinder burrs are gnashing if you try & grind finer (otherwise I don't see why you can't grind finer)?


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## M_H_S

In order to get more than 16g it would be ideal to use a dosing funnel.

Which grinder do you have?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## matted

abs said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have dtp and find that the flow rate to be to fast. I have ground the beans as fine as my grinder will let me and after 14 secs I have 40g of coffee. I fit as much coffee that is physically possible which is about 14/16 g but still it extracts to fast. Any ideas on how to slow it down?


 Are you distributing and tamping too? What are you grinding with?

Heres a visual guide for grind types

https://www.homegrounds.co/coffee-grind-chart/


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## TomHughes

I can easily get 20g in my DTP basket. So sounds like your grinder is way off


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## abs

I have an ek43. Do you use a stock double basket that comes with the dtp or have you bought another ?


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## abs

what extras do you recommend for the dtp to help with shot prep and the extraction?


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## Uriel4953

I'm using 18g with everything stock, even tamper. I use a dosing funnel but only cause the cup for my niche is designed for 58mm portafilter.


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## TomHughes

abs said:


> I have an ek43. Do you use a stock double basket that comes with the dtp or have you bought another ?


 Yes stock double. As I say I can get max 21g in mine with a very fine grind with my la pavoni



abs said:


> what extras do you recommend for the dtp to help with shot prep and the extraction?


 I use a 53mm tamper (no stock)

I grind into a small jug, weigh to 19g then tip into heated and dried PF. I use a paper clip to break up then gently distribute with my fingers. Then tamp once, no polishing. 
carefully lock into group. Cup on scales. Weigh out the 38g shot with timer to check. Done


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## abs

How long does the shot take?


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## abs

I think I'm comparing it to my previous r58 which it will never match up to.

thanks for your help


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## Grae

Hi. Had my DTP for a couple of months now and slowly getting to grips with it. I have a basic delonghi burr grinder and had to take it apart and adjust it to get a finer grind for espresso (always made pour over before my DTP).

i went on one of the sage barista courses and quickly realised the milk wand is not the best compared to the higher end models but I think I've just about master it now.

thing is I just can't get a good crema still. I've got a good fine grind and 20g is pulling for about 30seconds but it still looks watery and 'splashy' to me and it's preventing getting a decent latte art.

is there anything else I should try to help improve it?


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## MWJB

Grae said:


> Hi. Had my DTP for a couple of months now and slowly getting to grips with it. I have a basic delonghi burr grinder and had to take it apart and adjust it to get a finer grind for espresso (always made pour over before my DTP).
> 
> thing is I just can't get a good crema still. I've got a good fine grind and 20g is pulling for about 30seconds but it still looks watery and 'splashy' to me and it's preventing getting a decent latte art.
> 
> is there anything else I should try to help improve it?


 It's likely that your grinder is the weak point. An Aergrind/Feldgrind might be an option or a second hand electric grinder.

Do you mean that your dose is 20g? What is the output in the cup in grams?


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## TomHughes

Grae said:


> Hi. Had my DTP for a couple of months now and slowly getting to grips with it. I have a basic delonghi burr grinder and had to take it apart and adjust it to get a finer grind for espresso (always made pour over before my DTP).
> 
> i went on one of the sage barista courses and quickly realised the milk wand is not the best compared to the higher end models but I think I've just about master it now.
> 
> thing is I just can't get a good crema still. I've got a good fine grind and 20g is pulling for about 30seconds but it still looks watery and 'splashy' to me and it's preventing getting a decent latte art.
> 
> is there anything else I should try to help improve it?


 What beans are you using?


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## Hellmooth

Grae said:


> Hi. Had my DTP for a couple of months now and slowly getting to grips with it. I have a basic delonghi burr grinder and had to take it apart and adjust it to get a finer grind for espresso (always made pour over before my DTP).
> 
> i went on one of the sage barista courses and quickly realised the milk wand is not the best compared to the higher end models but I think I've just about master it now.
> 
> thing is I just can't get a good crema still. I've got a good fine grind and 20g is pulling for about 30seconds but it still looks watery and 'splashy' to me and it's preventing getting a decent latte art.
> 
> is there anything else I should try to help improve it?


 I'm in the same boat will be following this! Cheers


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## Uriel4953

What beans are you both using and are they freshly roasted. Also 30 seconds always feels a bit short to me on my DTP I usually hit around 38-40 seconds for 20g in and 40g out using Rave signature blend.

Assume you are both using single walled basket ?


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## ajohn

Grae said:


> Hi. Had my DTP for a couple of months now and slowly getting to grips with it. I have a basic delonghi burr grinder and had to take it apart and adjust it to get a finer grind for espresso (always made pour over before my DTP).
> 
> i went on one of the sage barista courses and quickly realised the milk wand is not the best compared to the higher end models but I think I've just about master it now.
> 
> thing is I just can't get a good crema still. I've got a good fine grind and 20g is pulling for about 30seconds but it still looks watery and 'splashy' to me and it's preventing getting a decent latte art.
> 
> is there anything else I should try to help improve it?


 There are too many mentions of modifying grinders like the delonghi for espresso machine use. It might just get things into the start of the espresso range. I've actually done it. An "odd" aspect of many of these grinders is that the internal mechanisms are often the same or very similar.  The one I did was Swiss - they used glue on the mechanism, maybe to justify the extra cost but I bought it used.

What I would be inclined to say is that if some one can't get a decent shot out of a basket with grinds set via the razor tool they have some sort of problem that is unlikely to be down to the machine.

First one is beans. I haven't had any problems with super market beans but others have. Stale beans can be impossible to tune. I have only ever used these in an SGP and BE grinder.

If the grinder is causing problems as it wont grind fine enough increase the dose by 1/2g steps. This may help eventually. If it gets to the point where it interferes with fitting the portafilter stop. That's definitely too much. Also past the point *really *where the grinds are being disturbed when it's fitted. Take it out and look another 1/2g or so may be ok.

When loading the filter basket try and keep the heap even. It may be worth tapping them down as they are added. Stirring the grinds might help - cocktail stick diameter stirrer or maybe double that. I find bigger may clump grinds more but depends on the beans.  People use all sorts for stirring - something simple first.

Stay away from light tamping. Often mentioned but something to try later. Sage suggest 15 to 20kg - a safe range. Straining a little can help keep it consistent and it's also possible to lean on the tamper at the same time. Checking your tamp on bathroom scales or what ever isn't a bad idea. 10kg is reckoned to be a minimum.

These machines can benefit from a certain style of preheating. Machines should be flushed before every shot. A few seconds is sufficient. I did it a different way but flush, run steam until steam is coming out, fit the portafilter and pull the shot as soon as the machine allows. Steaming milk first is another option. I did it by running a shot through an empty pressurised basket, removing it with an amazon extraction tool and fitting the basket I intended to use. It didn't take me long to get the grinds in. Steam should achieve the same thing.

Steaming takes a lot of practice. The thermocoil machines aren't by any means slow.  Not that slow anyway. A jug larger than Sage's can be used and ok a machine with higher power could make a really noticeable difference but also need more careful control.

Don't forget that Sage effectively suggest a grinds in to grams of shot out of 3. Web says 2. Fact the best balance may be anywhere in that range or even outside it. Time 25 - 30sec is much the same. Ratio is the most effective way of controlling taste as time has a weaker effect. There is no need to follow that precisely either. All that matters is the taste that comes out. If some one wants exact 30 or 60 doubles tough it may not work out that way.

John

-


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## Grae

Thanks for the replies everyone.

im using some really fresh coffee from hasbean and heart and graft so didn't think the beans would be the problem.

The 20g I referred to is the dose in the basket, I've always gone by time for the extraction of 30secs measured by volume, but I will see what weight I am getting and push the time a bit longer maybe with a finer grind to see what this does.

ive been thinking of upgrading to the Sage Smart Grinder but I'm enjoying the diy nature of tweaking my delonghi one at the moment to learn about how to get the best dose.

Back to the lab!


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## pandabear

Evening all,

Just a quick one to say I have a for sale thread offering Pullman's Sage naked portafilter for the DTP (and other models) at their cost price, I'm in Australia at the moment and can bring a few back with me, just wanting to help out if people wanted one.

Cheers,

Alex


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## Zoltan

Hey,

I just would like to ask that do you know anyone in London who can modify a regular Sage portafilter? Or any good machinist/handyman in London?

I have a spare 54mm Sage DTP portafilter and I want to transform it to a bottomless one 

Thanks for the answers or ideas


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## colb16

Afternoon folks,

I've had a Sage DTP for 3 1/2 years and its worked perfectly up until today. But earlier this morning I noticed the steam power had decreased significantly to the point where there was just a dribble of water coming out. Did all the usual trouble shooting and then ran some descaler through. When I had finished, and switched off the machine, it was still making some noises which was quite concerning. Just turned it back on an hour or so later and there is nothing happening. It starts up within 30 seconds but there's no light flashing whilst the machine warms up as normal, and once I switch to espresso or steam no water comes out. Anyone any ideas or faced something similar? Would it be a pump issue? Cheers


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## TomHughes

colb16 said:


> Afternoon folks,
> 
> I've had a Sage DTP for 3 1/2 years and its worked perfectly up until today. But earlier this morning I noticed the steam power had decreased significantly to the point where there was just a dribble of water coming out. Did all the usual trouble shooting and then ran some descaler through. When I had finished, and switched off the machine, it was still making some noises which was quite concerning. Just turned it back on an hour or so later and there is nothing happening. It starts up within 30 seconds but there's no light flashing whilst the machine warms up as normal, and once I switch to espresso or steam no water comes out. Anyone any ideas or faced something similar? Would it be a pump issue? Cheers


 Potentially pump failure.

How hard is your water and how often did you descale? (And what did you use)


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## colb16

TomHughes said:


> Potentially pump failure.
> 
> How hard is your water and how often did you descale? (And what did you use)


 Thanks Tom, that was my initial thought as well, but I can here the pump go once the steamer starts but there's no water coming from the wand, nor the brew head. It seems like it's not able to pull the water through, from some further reading online someone mentioned that priming it might work, not sure how that works though.

Live in hard water area and descale every 4-6 weeks with puly descaler powder.


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## TomHughes

colb16 said:


> Thanks Tom, that was my initial thought as well, but I can here the pump go once the steamer starts but there's no water coming from the wand, nor the brew head. It seems like it's not able to pull the water through, from some further reading online someone mentioned that priming it might work, not sure how that works though.
> 
> Live in hard water area and descale every 4-6 weeks with puly descaler powder.


 Ok, it sound to me like it could be scale blockage. 
how hard are we talking and were you filtering it? 
Puly doesn't really work for sages as it's designed for standard boiler machines like a gaggia. It needs a bit of time to work but doesn't get it with the thermocoil system. 
To compound this some of the holes in the sage are quite small, so blockage can occur with very minimal scale. 
I moved to a hardish water area (280tds) and was using citric acid (similar to puly) and was finding my DTP was get a little funny, low temp, low steam pressure. 
Did a full descale with kilrock (lactic acid) and it worked like gang busters.


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## colb16

TomHughes said:


> Ok, it sound to me like it could be scale blockage.
> how hard are we talking and were you filtering it?
> Puly doesn't really work for sages as it's designed for standard boiler machines like a gaggia. It needs a bit of time to work but doesn't get it with the thermocoil system.
> To compound this some of the holes in the sage are quite small, so blockage can occur with very minimal scale.
> I moved to a hardish water area (280tds) and was using citric acid (similar to puly) and was finding my DTP was get a little funny, low temp, low steam pressure.
> Did a full descale with kilrock (lactic acid) and it worked like gang busters.


 Water hardness is 256 and yes I've been filtering it. Didn't realise that about Puly, thought I saw it mentioned on here before that it was ok to use. Good to know. I suspect it's too late to use Kilrock at this stage if the water is not flowing.

Edit - I've tried the Sage support team this morning and they gave me the details of Coffee Classics. When I spoke with them they said they don't can't help with Sage DTP any loner as they can't source any parts, and would be unable to send an engineer. At a loss at this stage as to what to do next.


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## TomHughes

colb16 said:


> Water hardness is 256 and yes I've been filtering it. Didn't realise that about Puly, thought I saw it mentioned on here before that it was ok to use. Good to know. I suspect it's too late to use Kilrock at this stage if the water is not flowing.
> 
> Edit - I've tried the Sage support team this morning and they gave me the details of Coffee Classics. When I spoke with them they said they don't can't help with Sage DTP any loner as they can't source any parts, and would be unable to send an engineer. At a loss at this stage as to what to do next.


 I'd blast it with kilrock or something with sulphamic acid in. See what happens. You don't have much to lose!


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## colb16

TomHughes said:


> I'd blast it with kilrock or something with sulphamic acid in. See what happens. You don't have much to lose!


 Just bought some on amazon so will give it a shot when it arrives.

After another call with Sage their position has changed, now stating that the Sage DTP is unrepairable and as it's out of warranty all they can do is offer a discount for a new machine. Why would anyone be interested in buying another one! Frustrating to say the least.


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## DavecUK

colb16 said:


> Just bought some on amazon so will give it a shot when it arrives.
> 
> After another call with Sage their position has changed, now stating that the Sage DTP is unrepairable and as it's out of warranty all they can do is offer a discount for a new machine. Why would anyone be interested in buying another one! Frustrating to say the least.


 Sage = the Apple of the coffee world


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## colb16

DavecUK said:


> Sage = the Apple of the coffee world


 I've often read some very positive comments for their customers service, which was reassuring, but unfortunately my experience has not been good. Nevertheless, the idea of upgrading in a year or so was on my mind, so now that decision has just been brought forward. Lots of research still to do but Lelit was topping my list, it certainly won't be Sage! Must have a look at your reviews again.


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## M_H_S

It is likely the machine can be fixed with a proper descale and a new pump. They cost 13 pounds and are generic. If not you haven't lost much.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

colb16 said:


> I've often read some very positive comments for their customers service, which was reassuring, but unfortunately my experience has not been good. Nevertheless, the idea of upgrading in a year or so was on my mind, so now that decision has just been brought forward. Lots of research still to do but Lelit was topping my list, it certainly won't be Sage! Must have a look at your reviews again.


 A dangerous rocky path too much expense...but enjoy. MaraX highly recommended if you can get one. Otherwsie it might be into DB territory...lots of choice, fun times ahead.


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## Tonino

Hi, yes Puly doesn't work with Sage dtp very well if at all. A good descaler I found that works great is Oust all purpose sachets, if the pump is dead you can replace it with new one, these are most popular pumps ULKA EP5, Ebay sellers got them for a good price. Only things that may worry me with sage are the electronics, if sage can't supply, only option is used one from broken for spares machine. Hopefully it's just a descaling issue. 
Good luck


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## lunarstablos

Hi, long time reader first time poster here. I wanted to comment on the topic of descaling a DTP as I'm currently looking to buy some more cleaning products, looking at the Urnex Dezcal and Cafiza partly due to them being miles better value than buying from Sage!

My question is which would be best for the DTP - the Dezcal powder, tablets or liquid? I live in the north west so the water here is pretty soft coming down from the Lake District.

Cheers!


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## Longmanh

Thought I'd just say hi here as I've recently joined and own a DTP.

Just bought a new grinder to hopefully get the most out of this machine so looking forward to learning lots.

Here's a photo of my setup with my existing grinder.


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## Tonino

Good coffee corner, well done. What grinder did you order? This on the picture is just fine for using it with double wall baskets but you get a lots of fake crema, but still better coffee than instant one. 
Regards


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## Marten

Just bought a Sage DTP so very much a newbie. My basket is very difficult to remove from the portafilter (I weigh the coffee in the basket removed from the portafilter on my scales is the only way I can accurately weigh the coffee). My question.....can I use the DTP without the spring there thus allowing my to remove basket, weigh and fill the basket each time a lot easier? Must the spring be present?

Thanks in advance! 
Marten


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## cuprajake

Ive recently got a dtp to replace a gaggia classic i bought, that i just couldn't get to grips with.

Heres my corner
View attachment 38755


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## Harvey

New user here, I already posted this image in the welcome section, but here is my setup. I've had this setup for nearly 2 years now and still really like it. I know by the number of posts on here that this is a very common setup, but this has got me through many a morning with two small toddlers waking at very unholy hours! And has produced some pretty good coffee.

I'll be honest though, I've just ordered a bulk of cleaning supplies for the machine from Coffee Hit as I've never cleaned or descaled it... I'm just hoping I haven't done too much damage, and that what I've ordered after reading above is going to work!


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## Harvey

Does anyone know if the IMS precision baskets fit the standard DTP portafilter? I have read some people have modified them to fit bottomless portafilters, but im not sure whats been 'modified', and if they would fit the standard one.

https://espresso-solutions.co.uk/filter-spaziale-p4y-wega-concept-h27-5/


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## Zoltan

Harvey said:


> Does anyone know if the IMS precision baskets fit the standard DTP portafilter? I have read some people have modified them to fit bottomless portafilters, but im not sure whats been 'modified', and if they would fit the standard one.
> 
> https://espresso-solutions.co.uk/filter-spaziale-p4y-wega-concept-h27-5/


 IMS Spaziale competition basket (B652TH27.5M) can work with DTP. We its border is too wide you need to modify it. Bend or file it. Otherwise it won't fit to the group head.

Left: modified IMS Spaziale

Right: original IMS Spaziale


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## cuprajake

Does it make a difference though


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## Zoltan

By the way, I'm just selling my IMS basket with a bottomless portafilter for DTP


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## Zoltan

Cuprajake said:


> Does it make a difference though


 Filing or the competition basket?

File: otherwise not possible to attach the portafilter to the group head

Basket: definitely. You can grind finer what gives you more taste notes and the extraction is more even.


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## Harvey

Zoltan said:


> By the way, I'm just selling my IMS basket with a bottomless portafilter for DTP


 @Zoltan I don't suppose you would sell just the basket on its own? 😁


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## Zoltan

Harvey said:


> @Zoltan I don't suppose you would sell just the basket on its own? 😁


 First I try to sell both together.

Anyway, the modification isn't a big issue. Find a metal works workshop and ask them if they are able to do it. This is how I did it  Cutting a hole in the portafilter and file the basket was £20. In London.


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## cuprajake

What grinder were you using along with you modded pf setup


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## Zoltan

Cuprajake said:


> What grinder were you using along with you modded pf setup


 I got a Sage Smart Grinder Pro. Ordered on January and I think it's an upgraded version as other Smart Grinder Pro owners were complaining and were not able to grind fine enough. Was a perfect match with DTP until I bought a new espresso machine.

It depends on the bean but let's say that I had to use setting 18-20-22 with the stock filter basket and I was able to go much finer (setting 12-14-16) with the IMS one. Big improvement in taste.


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## Harvey

Does a precision basket exist for the sage/Breville machine in the UK that doesn't need modifying? I know Pullman make one, but that will be extortionate! 😅

I can imagine trying to buy an IMS one now and getting it machined would be problematic.


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## Coffeedoper87

Hey everyone, Sage DTP owner just joined the forum today. Had my machine for around 3 years now and love it. It's my first home espresso machine, I've always wanted a machine at home as we have a larger machine in my studio/workshop I use everyday, I'd love to build my own machine one day with an E61 but have to start somewhere.

Very keen coffee enthusiast and carpenter by trade so up for giving modifications and servicing a go. I stumbled across the forum this weekend as my machine had been playing up and I narrowed it down to the pump or opv playing up.

After a bit of research I have replaced the pump this evening and the machine is working great again. So I joined the forum in the hope to learn more about machines in my journey to building or modifiying another machine.

so far I've changed group gasket & pump, machined my own naked portafilter & im keen to learn about the opv and if anyone's fitted a brass opv, lines and pressure gauge to their machine?


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## Dragonroad

Hi everybody! I'm new to the forum, been just stalking before 

I've had my DTP for a year now and it's coupled with Sage's Doze control pro. Like the machine and although I like my workplace's Barraza Encore a bit more the DCP is still good piece of equipment.

My general issue is too short brewtime. I'm getting 1:2 ration in 18-22s and with some beans it's good my generic bean is still a bit bitter and lacks crema.

I've been playing with coarsness (usually 10-12) and the amount (usually 16-18g) and depending on the bean it's very good or just decent/boarderline bad 

Any suggestions on adjustments with my setup? What's your dialing in process when changing to a new bean?

Thanks a bunch, sorry I didn't read all the 59 pages if there was a answer to my problem.


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