# Classic pump got noisy after descale



## ItalianBrew (Feb 15, 2016)

Did a descale yesterday and after running it all through then a run with a tank of clean water the pump is now a lot noisier than it was before and is not working so well.

I'm loathe to do it again as I only stripped the pump down not so long ago but would stripping it down and having a poke around be of any help, I'm a bit worried the pump is on its way out so quite keen to learn if any one knows what might be causing the pump to be so much noisier now and for it not to be working properly in that it is taking quite a while to get the water to come through the head and when it comes its really slow, works fine out the steam wand which made me wonder!


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

It makes me immediately think of a partially blocked solenoid valve.... plenty of threads about it when searching for fixes.

The extra noise from the pump could be an air lock, or it could be on the way out, but you indicated the flow out the steam wand was good.


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## ItalianBrew (Feb 15, 2016)

That solenoid is a royal pain in the rump, right so, strip down the pump again then, I have taken the solenoid off and apart 4 times already, no debris and pin goes right through the two holes no problem, must be yet more scale in the pump.


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

The pump doesn't normally have issues with scale. The lack of heat means it shouldn't build up there, but maybe dirt in the reservoir gets sucked upinstead.

The solenoid hole is tiny. I would still soak the bottom piece it in citric acid for a few hours.


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## ItalianBrew (Feb 15, 2016)

I just ordered some citric acid and will give that a try when it arrives, thanks for the suggestion.


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

Top tip: The little hole can have an airlock in it when you drop it in, I use a syringe to squirt the solution through and ensure a good clean.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

ItalianBrew said:


> That solenoid is a royal pain in the rump, right so, strip down the pump again then, I have taken the solenoid off and apart 4 times already, no debris and pin goes right through the two holes no problem, must be yet more scale in the pump.


What water are you using in your classic and what period do you leave it between descaling and what is the approx number of cups you make per day?

Also, when you descale do you let water come out of the group head ? or just the wand?

I read somewhere you werent meant to let the descaler out of the brew head, only the wand

Would bet money on it being your solenoid. Doubt its the pump.

Doesnt cost a penny to take it off and stick a pin in it and I think you have the free time.

You mention sticking a pin in the 2 holes. You do go in from the top smallest hole? (not the holes with the little rubber gasket)


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## ItalianBrew (Feb 15, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> What water are you using in your classic and what period do you leave it between descaling and what is the approx number of cups you make per day?
> 
> Also, when you descale do you let water come out of the group head ? or just the wand?
> 
> ...


I stripped the machine down again today, took the boiler apart, checked every single hole I could find and yes I inserted the pin in the hole inside the solenoid thingy, I even turned the needle around so the eye literally just fitted inside the hole and twisted it around just to be sure, there was nothing in there.

Before I put it all back together again I ensure 'absolutely' there was no scale what so ever inside the machine anywhere, all the tubes were cleared, the solenoid was clean as a shiny whistle, the boiler was perfectly clear, I seriously didn't miss a thing, there was literally no funk in the machine any where and after putting it back together I prepped the pump, ground some beans, got the portafilter on then fired up the coffee machine hoping to get a nice coffee and the exact same problem persisted, the water was bare dribbling through the head.

Yup, the head was removed and thoroughly cleaned, I seriously didn't miss a thing, I gutted the whole interior of the machine and took everything apart and checked it all, there was no way anything was in there except for water.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

PM sent


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## ItalianBrew (Feb 15, 2016)

Ratty, you are a genius my friend, okay so the problem wasn't with any debris in the system, like I said the whole system was cleared but what you said on the phone made me think about that hole more closely, it is very small isn't it, so small in fact it gives cause to wonder how water gets through it fast enough. After taking the solenoid off again and as I was poking a needle into the hole I gave the needle a little jiggle, would you Adam n Eve it, the darn thing moved ever so slightly from side to side, off I goes to me sewing box and I grabbed a slightly larger needle, this one only just didn't fit into the hole, I held the needle with pliers and slowly twisted the solenoid whilst exerting a modicum of downward pressure. My heart faltered for a moment as I heard a tiny weird noise, I've broken it I thinks but the needle just suddenly went through, the eye of the needle absolutely chock a block with limescale powder. The hole was not blocked by a bit of scale, it was scaled up entirely on the walls of the hole, the hole was just wide enough for some water to get through but not enough.

Feeling a new lease of confidence I put the solenoid back on, did that little trick you taught me then got on with making a coffee, *BINGO* mate, my Classic is working perfectly now, it actually works better than ever, bold strong and solid'ish Crema and the coffee tastes sublime, you're a star mate, thank you for being so patient with me and getting me to look at the problem more closely.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Im just glad I could help









Super pleased for you, and your coffee sounds great now


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

Fantastic! Its always that little hole that catches everyone out


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

So pleased you got it fixed. JumboRatty needs renaming "mighty Lord of the solenoid broddling" or some such.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

ItalianBrew said:


> Ratty, you are a genius my friend,what you said on the phone made me think





Missy said:


> So pleased you got it fixed. JumboRatty needs renaming "mighty Lord of the solenoid broddling" or some such.


He phoned me, I shouted *"**ITS YOUR SOLENOID" *and hung up


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> He phoned me, I shouted *"**ITS YOUR SOLENOID" *and hung up


Occam's razor. It's always the solenoid. You can see why gaggia ditched it on classics. Sure the coffee isn't as good, but I bet it caused them no end of headaches!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I think the coffee actually tastes the same from both solenoid and non solenoid versions.

But after speaking to someone from Gaggia UK on the phone about it do believe most failures where down to a blocked solenoid so they may have changed it because of that reason. Most people want to believe it was down to cost.

   *Jumbo Ratty*








Solenoid Guru


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

But you can't back flush? So how do you keep it sparkly clean?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I guess you'd physically remove the shower screen and dispersion plate and get scrubbing


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I guess you'd physically remove the shower screen and dispersion plate and get scrubbing


Do I not need to do both?!?


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## Melvo (May 17, 2018)

Sorry for opening up an old thread but I have a very similar problem and just wanted to ask for some advice on what else could be a solution as it doesn't seem to be the solenoid for me.

The problem I've had is the water seems to get extremely hot, with large amounts of steam coming out of the grouphead - this can happen even after just one minute of heating. Once in a while I have the same isssue mentioned above where the (I guess) the pump makes a loud rattle. I took a look after one occurence and saw that the OPV pipe's water from my tank seemed had (hot) water going back and forth in it even with the machine turned off. I took the solenoid out to look for anything clogged but to be honest it seems totally fine. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Cheers.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

We need more information. How old is the machine ? Do you live in a hard water area ? Have you d-scaled it ? How did the problem start ? Did you take the solenoid COMPLETELY apart ? Do you clean the machine regularly ? Have you removed the shower screen AN D the distribution block behind (2 allen screws ).


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## Melvo (May 17, 2018)

Thanks for getting back to me. Yes I live in a hard water area (Berlin), though I've switched to bottled water a few months ago. I've not been the most consistent descaler but have done it every three/four months or so, but it could certainly be an underlying issue.

I took off the shower screen and block behind and cleaned those in case those were issues but didn't seem to make a difference. I didn't take the solenoid completely apart as while I got it off the machine to examine the external holes, I did not get as far as isolating the internal spring. The problem started randomly a little while ago but was sporadic, now it seems to constantly be an issue. Would a more aggressive descaling (like two or three in a row) help?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

As the ports in the solenoid are very small it only takes a tiny flake / speck of scale to block them. Several D-scales MAY dissolve / remove the scale (if it is scale / blocked)

but I would remove the sol/ valve and dismantle/ clean. You can hold in a vice (if you have one ) or screw the sol/ v to apiece of wood to hold while you unscrew the 19 mm nut

to the innards. (don't lose the "O" rings). If there is much scale floating about in the boiler ,you may have to clear the s/valve several times..

From your statement ref instant heat up , it does sound as if there is little water in the boiler. If you keep switching it on you MAY burn out the elements


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## Melvo (May 17, 2018)

Thanks I'll try attach it to some wood, I didn't think about that as an option.


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## Melvo (May 17, 2018)

Update for any interested readers. I disassembled the solenoid and it really seemed fine but I cleaned it anyway. I wasn't able to get into the actual boiler itself as the screws were ridiculously tight.

Did another descale and the flow through the grouphead seemed fine; the original problem of steaming coming out of the grouphead and water going back down the OPV still persists if I don't run some cold water immediately after turning on; but otherwise if I do that it runs fine. Thanks El carajillo for the advice; it's enough to give me espresso for quarantine


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Are you refilling the boiler after brewing coffee / steaming ?? (allowing water to flow from steam wand ) If not the boiler will not be filled and could be part of the problem.

Have you checked the seal and seat &spring in the OPV. It is only when pressure goes above OPV pressure setting that the water should flow back to tank.


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## Melvo (May 17, 2018)

Yes I do, but probably not enough before given the minor blockage that seems to still exist - I have to currently waste a lot to get everything running and even with that, it's still not perfect.

The water is currently only going back in the tank when the boiler wasn't filling/steaming by the looks of it - occasionally it was having a loud spasm like the OP mentioned. When examining it I did notice the water wasn't going down the exit pipe nozzle which I assume is because the spring was set to close it off; but the OPV looked fine and was descaled too just in case.


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## Hippıcrat (Dec 3, 2020)

Hi everyone. This forum helped me a lot with my problem with Breville BES 870XL. Actually I had the same issue; after a descale with %50 white vinegar %50 water, the machine started to make an awful buzzing sound when either of the single/double espresso buttons were pressed. The pressure and water amount is mostly decreased. I tried to descale it many times with many agents, did the backflush and lastly I was able to dismantle the solenoid valve (for 3 times) and poked a needle to the holes, checked everything inside but nothing has changed so far. I believe that it is related to the descale process as it started to happen right after it. I would be very happy if Italian Brew and Jumbo Ratty help me with it. Replacing the solenoid assembly would be my last choice but I believe I can solve it with your help. I also would like to hear about your suggestions with the descale solution and backflush tablets. What do you use for them? Many thanks...


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