# Gloopy ?



## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

So, you want to make a coffee and you want the poor to be "Gloopy".

What are the key things to make that happen?

I have reached the point where I can get a slow pour (18g in 36g out in 35s inc pre) but watching the bottom of the portafilter I am still getting a thin(ish), fairly central stream only..... not seeing flow from all across the bottom.

Ok with milk but really a sink shot.

Using the L1 now by the way


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

grumpydaddy said:


> So, you want to make a coffee and you want the poor to be "Gloopy".
> 
> What are the key things to make that happen?
> 
> ...


Hi

Just so I'm clear ,

Are you unhappy with the way the shots taste currently or how they look like they are extracting or how they feel in the mouth = mouthfeel ?

this is to give the shot more mouthfeel ? Gloppy = thicker shot = bigger mouthfeel = more strength ...

Or is because you are unhappy with the way the shots look ?

Or you want it to cut through milk more ?

This may be at the expense of clarity of taste and may result in a shot that stronger than your used to.

You looking to pull a ristretto type shot , but to some degree how the extraction looks will be dependent on the coffee your using also. Just bear that in mind ...A darker roasted bean may give a more pleasing gloopy shot appearance than a lighter one ...Doesnt mean either is better , just worth bearing in mind in what your trying to achieve...

So try 18g in 20-24g out in 25-35 ish ( time is nominal when talking about ristretto ) to get you in the ristretto ball park , which should look more gloopy, it will be stronger.....tighten the grind accordingly

This brew ratio might look good in terms of naked pf, it might not taste good though ....again depends on the palate and the bean ...

Extraction not all across the basket will be to the distribution of coffee in the basket being uneven somewhere...


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Im a bit confused, a central stream is what you want from a bottomless PF. Or are you saying it isnt evenly extracting?

What beans are you using? To get something gloopier extract less, try 18g in to 22g out or so. You may want a darker roast rather than a lighter roast.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

I watch the vids of bottomless pours and see all the little holes contributing to a central seemingly quite viscous flow.

I have re-distributed in the portafilter with a cocktail stick, am grinding fine enough to just use finger pressure tamp and together this seems to have resolved the spritzing. I have extended the pre infusion to ten seconds or released at just 4 but I still see only the center 1p or 2p sized flow which is "thin" to look at.

The pucks come out cleanly and when broken in two seem to be equally coloured which leads me to think that all the coffee has been equally wet...... I am starting to wonder if I need to change the convex tamper..... or maybe you guys can suggest something.

http://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/espresso-coffee/products/nicaragua-finca-el-bosque-micro-lot beans by the way... will be ordering more varieties today.

I am a mechanically minded sort who likes to understand the process but I am missing something here.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Are you unhappy with the taste thats in the cup ....or that body ?

If not then dont worry would be my suggestions ....

Trying to emulate pretty naked extractions in itself can be a fruitless rabbit hole ( ???? )

Your not using the same coffee , roast level , dose as those you tube clips..

Example your coffee is a light medium roast...

Did you drop the brew ratio as suggested btw?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Video?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Not happy, not getting the sweetness I was expecting nor the strawberries not even in milk. it is not bitter.... sharp perhaps. certainly the initial "half" of the pour is acidic the latter half bland. crema is thin and dissipates quickly.

Loaned the grinder to unoll for the rest of today.... He is thinking of buying one. so I will try dropping the brew ratio tomorrow.

...and I will see what the phone can do for a video then try to upload .....oddly enough that is not something I have done before.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

grumpydaddy said:


> Not happy, not getting the sweetness I was expecting nor the strawberries not even in milk. it is not bitter.... sharp perhaps. certainly the initial "half" of the pour is acidic the latter half bland. crema is thin and dissipates quickly.
> 
> Loaned the grinder to unoll for the rest of today.... He is thinking of buying one. so I will try dropping the brew ratio tomorrow.
> 
> ...and I will see what the phone can do for a video then try to upload .....oddly enough that is not something I have done before.


Crema going quickly isn't a sign of a bad shot or bean in itself ....In fact lots of crema isn't the sign of a good shot either...

this next bit is pocket science in action ...an opinion not fact

for me Lighter roasted fruity tasting beans tend, to me , to taste better at a longer brew ratio 18g>32-36g , but this will be at the expense of mouthfeel or gloopyness . This is where a recipe for something like the Foundry LSOL shone with sweetness fruit and strawberries ...but is doesnt mean it will translate into this bean .....

You can increase the mouthfeel by decreasing the brew ratio and making the shot look gloopier this could well be at the expense of clarity of taste and sweetness..

Now to your specific bean and machine ...

Ive not used that bean on the lever , pretty sure some will have though to help you with a specific recipe ( Coffeechap ) and it may be that in their experience changing the brew ratio will help it ...

Im sure your doing this but ill say it anyway - I would more than anything concentrate on the taste in the cup , rather than mouthfeel and how the extraction looks ( thin not gloopy etc )

This may be a roast and bean combination that isnt a gloopy pour or has crema for days and bug mouthfeel at any extractions .

Lets see what some Rave users can suggest....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok spoken to the coffee chap

Here is a recommended recipe from him hope this helps

Go fine grind ....

Try 15 g into 28g over 30 seconds ish ( include 6 seconds pre infusion in this )

It isn't going to be a gloppy , Guinness Crema shot its a medium light roast ....


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Try cutting out the redistribution with cocktail stick, coffee in basket and tamp.


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I have this problem with my L1 too. Maybe for real gloopiness you need a pump?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'd have thought the proper gloopy ristretto type shot would be prime lever territory


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I think the lowish peak pressure may have something to do with it. (for a single spring its around 6.5 bar). I really miss gloopy espresso.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I'd wind the grind finer than you thought possible and aim for about 30 out of 18-20 over about 27.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

NickR said:


> I think the lowish peak pressure may have something to do with it. (for a single spring its around 6.5 bar). I really miss gloopy espresso.


Some beans and roasts wont make a gloopy shot.....

Ive had gloopy shots form a lever , just tends to be more medium plus roasts


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

NickR said:


> I have this problem with my L1 too. Maybe for real gloopiness you need a pump?


absolutely not, gloopy shots just wont come from lighter roasts, which the el bosque is leaning towards, if you go darker you can get gloopy all day long, it might not suit the bean though!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

NickR said:


> I think the lowish peak pressure may have something to do with it. (for a single spring its around 6.5 bar). I really miss gloopy espresso.


where did you get that figure from? I had a scace on the londinium group and peak pressure at the start was 9.2 bar, the double spring variant is 11 bar. I can also get glooy shots from the gs3 at straight 6 bar shots as well.


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I got the 6.5 bar from here

https://comingsooncoffee.wordpress.com/tag/bosco-spring-lever-espresso-machine/






Great video by Frans

The effect of pressure on the espresso I think I got from a comment of Reisses (could be wrong here) where it was said that putting two springs on an L1 made the espresso taste like that produced by a pump machine, and likend it to keg beer - I don't like keg beer but I do like a good thick solid crema and gloopy espresso. The crema I've had from my L1 has been thin, and short lived. The espresso is very noticably thinner. Nice, full of flavours I never noticed with my pump machine, but also slightly disappointing on the viscosity and crema front.

This is using the same home roasted beans as I used on my Andreja.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

There are only certain beans that you will be able to group. As stated, the lighter roasts will not cut the mustard. I can group all day long with most of the darker beans I buy from coffee compass. The secret is, as others have said, to tighten the grind, possibly give a slightly longer pre infusion of 9 to 10 seconds (but you do not want any drips before releasing the lever), forget brew ratios for output as you are effectively pulling a short shot. It will not gloup from start to finish, so capture the middle part which will.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

perhaps try changing the beans then, I know that say java jampit (just an example) will produce fantastic short gloopy shots of coffee with exceptional body and plenty of thick crema.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Skip to one minute twenty

old school l1 k30 clip...

bit crema there...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Franz favours big gloopy ristrettos too on the l1. Mostly home roasts too. I would lean to it being the beans your using ( roast profile and or origin ) as opposed to the lever and pump differences.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> where did you get that figure from? I had a scace on the londinium group and peak pressure at the start was 9.2 bar, the double spring variant is 11 bar. I can also get glooy shots from the gs3 at straight 6 bar shots as well.


I dont think its the bar pressure than does or doesnt get to gloopy to be honest .

Here is a scace clip i made before the 11 went

Ive talked to reiss a bit about this . His view is that the scace cant read true pressure in the group ....

I did a similar exercise with a faema commercial 2 group , came out the same...


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

I'd like to take a moment and say thanks to all that contributed Ideas on this....

Ended up at around 16.5g of fine enough for a slightly heavy finger weight tamp, a 10 sec pre-infusion plus ~26 secs to get 26g and finally got something that looked right to me. The point here is that I got the even distribution on the naked and thus an even cone which is immensely encouraging as I was starting to despair ever getting it

These beans are past their best now and the result was quite acidic but I am beginning to get the picture so I can further experiment with new beans, this time using tastebuds as a guide.

Back on track Thanks to your help folks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Was just thinking if you had any success or not earlier

Did you try increasing the brew ratio , 16 in 30 , to see if it tamed the acidity ( which i hope it would )

Might help improve whats in the cup too.









Also did you try as the beans as brewed to see how they are without barista , temp , tamp as dose effecting them ?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm not sure this is allowed







but what I actually did was slide a second cup under to catch the continuing flow and guesstimated when to switch that one out too. adding the second cup to the first gave 32g and yes it did tame the acidity quite a lot.....enough to work ok with milk (for my tastebuds anyway).

Repeating the same dose and letting it run to 40g made for a woody taste without any acidity.

The only other method I have is one of those commercial drip makers just now....Filter with not so hot water..... Hadn't thought to use it. I guess I could filter into a cup using a kettle or some such.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yeah 40 g would be pushing the ratio too far with your grinder...


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