# Is to worth trying to repair a Sage dual boiler?



## chris.gid (Apr 19, 2020)

I don't know why but every time I try to fix my SDB it's at the start of a bank holiday weekend and I end up needing parts and it seems a very long and frustrating wait to call suppliers to see if I can get parts......

I purchased the machine about 18 months ago 2nd hand and I'm having to repair it for a 2nd time.....

1st repair was to address what I think was a failed Triac board issue where the steam boiler was on all the time, and after doing a rescale the thermal fuse blew. Ended up repairing the fuse but leaving the board and just turning it on and off at the socket.

Attempted a repair yesterday for a steam leak and found a crack in the steam boiler to brew boiler hose

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/59333-sage-dual-boiler-steam-pipe-to-brew-boiler-part/?do=embed

So after having a good look at the machine I think the following needs repairing:

- Triac board

- Steam boiler to brew boiler hose

- steam boiler vacuum valve

- solenoid valve

If I repair these do you reckon I'm over the repair hump or should I just sell it on eBay and put the money towards a new machine, looking at the Crem One 2B? I'm happy with the machine and really like the way it heats up quickly, so I'd want any new are machine to do that as well (I don't always have coffee at the same time of day so the timer functions are not much use to me).


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

chris.gid said:


> Triac board


 I'd replace the triac and if it was actually something that drives this that part as well. Snip the leads where possible, unsolder what's left and fit a replacement. A photo I have seen shows a paxo pcb. May have changed to fibreglass as few use paxo any more.  I wont bore you as to why. That type of board can have problems with dry joints. Certain brands of car often had problems with that on all sorts of electronic parts. Simple re soldering could fix them not even adding any more solder. In an espresso machine it may pay to bake them at some suitable temperature for a while to get rid of any moisture.



chris.gid said:


> Steam boiler to brew boiler hose


 You bought a machine that some one had botched. Sounds like it's the circuit where the O rings fail. There is a lot of info on these machines on homebarista. It seems that they generally fail 3 years plus. Quality O rings only cost a few quid for way too many.



chris.gid said:


> steam boiler vacuum valve


 Main difference on Sage with this is almost bound to be stainless. Dismantle and clean if possible or replace with one that fits. Like solenoids it will be a bought in part.



chris.gid said:


> solenoid valve


 Rattles are down to sludge internally. Very easy to take apart and clean - I wiped it off with my thumb and put it back together again. I do blame the machine for this. It doesn't prompt for a back flush often enough. None of their machines do IMHO. I use larger sized tablets and crush them when I use them. It can pay to do this before descaling as well. Not a good time to get rattles.

@DavecUK Maybe you could post your recommendation on internal inspection and back flushing.  As a favour.

This page tells you how to find out how many shots the machine has done

https://outwestcoffee.com.au/index.php/2018/12/01/how-to-access-the-breville-bes-920-fault-log-and-what-do-the-codes-mean/

be interesting to know. Mines nearing 2,500, the one shown in the link 9,000. I should replace the O rings and clean the level sensors on mine. I've had the rattles twice once during descale. The descale one was cured with a thorough back flush. I may switch to Puly powder wet and mixed up on the rubber disk. I'm not a fan of back flushing and know I haven't been doing it often enough.

Scale can be interesting. Mine is an XcessSystems or what ever they call themselves refurb. These come with a short term guarantee. The ones they sell as used differ. I can assume they descaled it before sending it and I did as well when I received it. Later I descaled it twice on the trot with maybe 1/2 hr in between. It changed how the steam boiler heats. Boiling noises petered out to near nothing rather than just stopping. The previous descales hadn't removed all of it. I may have flakes of the stuff and sludge in the boilers.  I'll have a look with a snake camera some day.

Why do I own one. 2 reasons really from a usage point of view. Heats up in 3min and can be descaled easily and I use soft tap water. Temperature control according to a youtube video is spectacular. They appear to modulate heat in 2 parts to do that plus preheat in the steam boiler. Those are the O rings that usually fail. I don't think it's easy to completely get rid of the need to descale other than via re hardened quality RO water. Yonks ago when few could afford machines people used distilled at home.

 The other reason is use of stainless - I drink hot water that comes out of it.

Other machines - find one that doesn't get fault reports at some point. Sane thing for me would be a new one and looking after it. One query I have is on the machines descale indication - is it good enough. Things didn't get any worse when I set one grade harder than the test strip indicated and it took a long time to pop up.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@ajohn I don't know about internal inspection of these, but as a solenoid operated machine, it's important it doesn't gel clocked...hence backflushing weekly or 2 weekly depending on use would be a good idea.

I suppose internal inspection would be like any other machine, open it, have a look round for anything that looks burnt, broken or not right (e.g. cracking) and evidence of leaking. Then plug in and switch on allowing it to warm up...again observing for leaks..Once warm, i would backflush it with water, looking for issues, draw steam and hot water. If it all looks alright internally...that would be it.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I think I remember every 6month for a look. Backflush on Sage seems to be 200 odd shots - too many IMHO on all of them. And what happens if the machine gets several days of no use?

Lid off instructions are on youtube. I'd suggest a length of cane to use as a bonnet prop rather than dangling it over the back ( youtube again ).  I'd tell you the ideal length but some one stirred paint with it and threw it away.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> @ajohn I don't know about internal inspection of these, but as a solenoid operated machine, it's important it doesn't gel clocked...hence backflushing weekly or 2 weekly depending on use would be a good idea.
> 
> I suppose internal inspection would be like any other machine, open it, have a look round for anything that looks burnt, broken or not right (e.g. cracking) and evidence of leaking. Then plug in and switch on allowing it to warm up...again observing for leaks..Once warm, i would backflush it with water, looking for issues, draw steam and hot water. If it all looks alright internally...that would be it.


 LOL With Sage that might be a good idea a couple of months before the warrantee is up. However things may be lurking which can cause problems any time later including sludge in various places.


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## chris.gid (Apr 19, 2020)

Thanks for responses. There is a place in Aus (big warehouse spares) that sells all the spare parts, comes to about £160 Inc shipping for the bits I need, hopefully coffee classics can just supply the parts.

On the Triac I did think of soldering on some new triacs, but it's £30 for a new board (from big warehouse spares) Vs £6 each for a Triac. Frustratingly the Triac seems to be a part nowhere sells in UK except on eBay.

I may have a go tomorrow at removing and descaling the vacuum valve, seems to be on pretty tight so may just remove the hose and take it off with a socket rather than adjustable spanner.

Is it worth trying to disassemble the solenoid and clean it or just get a new one?

Interesting the frequency you backflush yorurs, I just wait for the machine to say clean me, I can only recall doing it a few times in the time I've had it, so when I get it repaired will try and do it more often. It get used for about 4 shots most days (and milk steaming)

Scale is something I can't really avoid living near London. We have a water softener (salt one) but until a few months ago I never used it for coffee. However in the past few months I've started using water from the softener as it tastes a bit better. I figure the water is being heated enough to kill off anything nasty in the softener so can't see why using it should be a problem (im still alive). I descaled the machine a few months ago buy just putting killrock in the water and running a load of water through the head and water spout, the thermal fuse is in such and awkward place I'm very loathed to actually use the descale function again.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I think Dave would suggest weekly for 4 a day.

Triac - I'd find the data sheet and find an equivalent. Maybe RS Components but these days one sometimes means buying several. The current rating and package are the main thing and a higher voltage rating wont hurt. Turning them on tends to be very similar who ever makes them.

Solenoid cleaning is easy enough. The electrical connectors latch on. Machine unplugged, feel the insulation, bit of a bump, squeeze - fingers or pliers and it will come off easily. Remove. Undo nut at top. Remove coil and unscrew the part left from the base. If it's permanently on probably a triac problem.  I didn't try undoing the coil retaining nut and leaving it attached to the wires and then taking the rest out. I just found sludge in mine. Wiped off with my thumb. It doesn't take much. Then a swill of the bits. Some people change them, some clean them.

They seem to have used different solenoids at times. One early one used a gasket. Mine uses 2 ptfe disks with small pieces of tube in them - metering for the 3 way, I think but might just be to keep flow away from aluminium. The other machines use solenoids that can be bought with various aperture sizes to meter the 3 way action.

I've heard that the thermal fuse is hard to get at. Up to you really. They do seem to prevent the heating element from burning out. I think that means a new boiler. There does seem to have been a version that could turn the element on when the boiler was empty but that was some time ago. The dreaded valve error signifies that the boilers haven't drained. Either they haven't, sludge is fooling the machine or the level probes need cleaning. Not a good idea to power the machine up normally if this error crops up during a descale as it will assume the boilers have water in them. Time for a manual rescale directly into the boiler - old youtube video.

I only use puly descaler. Safer than alternatives due to the aluminium used in places even though it generally coated. It's cheap too. Sage engineers use it too.

I suspect my brew boiler and drain pipe needs a good cleaning. Problem - curiosity tempts me to just carry on until something serious happens. When I do the O rings though I may look at the lot including fitting a different make of solenoid.


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