# MrShades Gaggia Classic PID Kit



## MrShades

A bit of an update on my PID kit that I've recently been working on.

Whilst I'm keeping the current kit alive and kicking, and the full details of it are still here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27931-MrShades-Gaggia-Classic-PID-Kit-Complete-PID-kit-with-full-guide-%A389

I've also been working on a kit that uses a PID controller that looks almost identical to the Auber one. It's 1/32DIN (rather than 1/16DIN for the Rex C100) and therefore half the size. It's half the size as it only has one display (rather than the two displays on the 1/16DIN Rex C100).

It's obviously much smaller, and this kit comes with a new aluminium box - that is also a two-part box (Auber seem to use an extruded single piece box, which you can't simply assemble around the controller once you've wired it up). As with the other kit, there's a cut-out in the front (around 44mm x 22mm) and a rubber grommeted hole in the rear.

As with the normal kit, all the SSRs and wires and everything else come with it - and they're all the same as the original kit.

Hence there's now two options:

1. The original 1/16 DIN kit, with dual display - being a larger unit, with larger enclosure

2. This new 1/32 DIN kit, with single (dual purpose) display - being a smaller unit, with smaller enclosure

As with everything, when it's smaller it's also more expensive (which is true for the PID controller and the aluminium enclosure) so this 1/32 DIN version is £5 more than the 1/16 DIN version - so it's £94 shipped to the UK.

Any questions, please just ask - and I have these in stock now and if you'd like one then please just PM me.

Some pics of the kit and controller:

(It was cold in the workshop, and hadn't warmed up - so it's showing 14C. Obviously normally it would show the brew temp at around 93C)




























A couple of pics to allow you to see the difference between the 1/16 DIN (larger, dual display) and 1/32 DIN (this one, smaller and single display) versions:










(Other than the fact that it doesn't say "Auber" on the front, if you can see any difference between this PID and the Auber one then let me know!)










For the avoidance of doubt, and to prevent any questions - Whilst this 1/32DIN controller LOOKS like the Auber one, and many (if not all) the menu options are the same - it does NOT have the hidden Auber menus, and it does NOT provide preinfusion or any of the fancy Auber only functions. It provides materially the same functionality as the Rex C100 and controls brew and steam temp.

I hope you like it!

Many thanks,

MrShades


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## coffeechap

that looks ripe for a modded drip tray mount


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## GCGlasgow

Or would it fit inside now?


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## MrShades

coffeechap said:


> that looks ripe for a modded drip tray mount


It's pretty small, and I've been toying with the idea of cutting it into the left side of the black plastic filler funnel thingy also. I reckon it may well fit, and could probably be done (at a push) so that the lid/cover still fits over the top.


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## MrShades

GCGlasgow said:


> Or would it fit inside now?


Yes, possibly... though I have a dislike of "destructive" mods. Everything I normally do can be 100% reversed..... though I do have a spare filler funnel somewhere... ;-)


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## aaroncornish

Hey MrShades, are you making this one for the Silvia too?

Me and some guys in the office are thinking of clubbing together and getting a Silvia for the office


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## DanG

I intend buying your PID kit but noticed that you've just released this 1/32 DIN version. To help make my mind up between the two versions could you please clarify the following:

What does the 2nd display on the 1/16 version normally display?

NB: I understand that the functionality is otherwise then same. Just want to know what info we're actually losing from the larger display in return for the smaller size/neatness of this new 1/32 version. I guess the info of primary importance is the current temperature which I assume must be displayed on both versions anyway.

Hope the above makes sense! I look forward to your response...


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## MrShades

The larger PID with dual display always shows both the current boiler temp and the temp that you have the brew temp set to.

On the smaller single display PID, normally the current boiler temp is shown - but if you press the up/down buttons to change the temp then the display changes to show the temp it's set to - and then a few seconds after you've changed the set temp, the display will revert back to show the current boiler temp.

Hope this explains it.


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## DanG

That does confirm what I'd suspected. In that case I'll get this new smaller unit as having the set temp permanently displayed has no real benefit for me. Thanks for your prompt response...


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## MrShades

aaroncornish said:


> Hey MrShades, are you making this one for the Silvia too?
> 
> Me and some guys in the office are thinking of clubbing together and getting a Silvia for the office


The components would all (depending on the age of the Silvia - and if it's the newer versions then I have a sensor for that too) be good for the Silvia, it's just the wiring (and instructions) that would differ. If I could get my hands on a Silvia then it would be a reasonably quick job to translate the Classic kit across to the Silvia - but short of buying one purely to do this, I can't see it happening any time soon.

So - short answer is no, unless I can find a Silvia somewhere!


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## aaroncornish

Change of Plan Shades! We are getting a classic









Once it arrives I will put an order in for PID


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## aaroncornish

Hey Shades.

I take it this system does not support timer like the Auber version?

Aaron


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## MrShades

As I said, whilst it looks like (and has many menus that are identical to) the Auber PID, it doesn't have the custom firmware or mods that their PID does that is capable of doing the other "clever" stuff (such as preinfusion - for what it's worth - which is what includes the "timer").

All my PID does is control the brew and steam temperature.... you'll still need your stopwatch!


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## gmac

Is that the best place to mount it, looks a bit awkward?


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## MrShades

You can mount it wherever you want really! Typically they're mounted to the left or right of the machine, but there's no reason why it couldn't be just stuck to the back of the machine and completely out of sight (as it's a bit of a "set and forget" device anyway).

With a Classic, it's not easy to mount it on the top (it's hot, not that flat, and the lid has to open).... and either side of the group head there's insufficient room and the tank wouldn't remove - so you're pretty much left with sticking it on one side or other of the machine.

As we discussed earlier in this thread, there may be other more "inventive" ways to mount it - either internally or otherwise - but I can't state categorically that it'd fit anywhere else, and it'd be a tricky task to boot.


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## Jumbo Ratty

Liking the newer smaller version

When it's fitted do the internal parts get in the way of removing the solenoid ?

If so is it a case of just removing a few more spade connectors than usual or more of a rigmarole ?

Would it be possible to see the internals of a classic with it in situation ? But please dont go to any lengths, just if you already have one.


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## MrShades

Nothing really gets in the way of the solenoid valve, no. It's still as easy (or as difficult) to remove as ever!

There are two SSRs bolted to the rear of the case, one either side of the power socket - but that shouldnt make much (if any) difference.

Then there are a few wires running around the boiler (sensor in the thermostat location, and then wires connected to the wires that were connected to that thermostat), but nothing that would impact removal of the solenoid valve.

I don't have a pic of the finished internals - and if I took a pic of the inside of my Classic then it'd be slightly misleading as I have lots of other wires, pipes and "stuff" all over the place!

Perhaps some other kind soul, who has previously fitted the kit, has a finished internal pic?


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## GerryM

@MrShades I'm hoping to add a PID to my fracino piccino, and Norvin has been kind enough to provide me with details of how they added theirs, I wonder if your kit would be suitable please or would i need to buy something else?

Norvins instructions to me are;

I used the standard Rex-C100 with a fotek SSR-40DA relay. PIDing the Piccino is just as easy as with a Classic, you use the same parts.

I picked up the switched live feed (1 on PID) by piggybacking the connection on the control box from the on/off switch (connection F1 red, from my notes), neutral (2 on PID) was taken from somewhere behind the steam boiler, the other two (12v) connections 4 and 5 on PID to 3 and 4 on relay, 1 and 2 on relay wired to the the two connections taken from the removed brew thermostat (make sure that you remove the right one, it has 92 degrees marked on it from memory), which is in turn replaced by the K type thermostat (connections 9 and 10 on the PID unit). The thread on the boiler for the thermostat is a 4mm metric thread, the same as on the Gaggias.

Many thanks for your help.

Gerry


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## MrShades

Hi @GerryM,

I could probably do something special for you - that just had the single SSR (for brew, normally my kit has 2 x SSRs - one for brew, and another for steam). Otherwise, the parts will probably all be the same - yes - including most (if not all) of the wires / connectors. I can happily make up a kit that has 50% longer wires for you, as it'd probably be better to have wire spare inside the machine than short wires (and the connections to the PID are all 'bare' ended anyway, so you could shorten any that you wanted to).

But certainly the PID itself, the Pt100 sensor (don't use a K type TC, they're not really accurate enough), the aluminium enclosure, the SSR-40DA, most (if not all) of the wires, the ancillary bits/bobs (paste, cable ties, nuts/bolts etc.) would all be good for you - yes.

So - longer wires and only one SSR - I'll do for £5 less than usual (either the 1/32DIN kit or the 1/16DIN kit) - but I can include the wires for the 2nd SSR and if you want to add it later (and can work out how to, for steam) then they're available for about £5 on eBay etc. anyway. I'll include the Classic fitting instructions, and it may well help you fit to the Piccino - but obviously you'll need to use your own skills and ingenuity along with Norvins instructions to properly fit it and get it to work (but I'm happy to help).

Drop me a PM if I can help further.

Adrian


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## vwjones

Cheers Adrian.....


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## MrShades

Great job George!

I'm liking the mounting position - very smart - and the black front of the case as well.

Modding a mod... Nice!


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## Missy

It looks like ET...


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## vwjones

It does kind of look like ET. Cheers Adrian, I want to spray the whole enclosure black when I get a chance. It looks ok as it is for now though.


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## MrShades

Out of interest - did you just get a piece of metal (steel, aluminium whatever) and stick it to the rear with the tape - and then stick the PID enclosure to the top with tape... or is it bolted / screwed etc?

If you've gone to the trouble (and quickly!) to paint the fascia of the case, then I'm guessing that it's bolted / screwed etc.

Cummon - let's see a "rear shot"...


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## vwjones

I did find a nice machined 90° section of black anodised aluminium to that I could use but then dug out some stainless steel and cut and bent it to size as the machine is stainless. For now it's as you say above Adrian - stuck to the side and then stuck to the PID with the tape, I wanted to see how annoying it would be to remove the water tank lid and casing lid if needs be before I bolted it on.

It works pretty well where it is though so I may do that this weekend. I'll post a photo later on today


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## vwjones




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## Wuyang

Hello there........this will have been answered I'm sure on one of the threads, but I don't have the time to search through it all so could you answer me the following.

1, How will this improve my coffee?

2, Will this improve the steaming power.....as in getting a better whirlpool going and sustaining it?

At present my classic will get a whirlpool at the start for a good few seconds then dies off, it then regains its umph and starts to whirlpool again nearer the end of steaming.

thanks for your help.


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## MrShades

Wuyang said:


> Hello there........this will have been answered I'm sure on one of the threads, but I don't have the time to search through it all so could you answer me the following.
> 
> 1, How will this improve my coffee?
> 
> 2, Will this improve the steaming power.....as in getting a better whirlpool going and sustaining it?
> 
> At present my classic will get a whirlpool at the start for a good few seconds then dies off, it then regains its umph and starts to whirlpool again nearer the end of steaming.
> 
> thanks for your help.


More than happy to give you some further insight...

*1. How will it improve your coffee???*

Well, when making espresso we're (most of the time, and allowing for most of the expense!) trying to remove variables. We want water to be precisely at a specific temperature, we want an exact dose of ground coffee, and we want that ground coffee to be as uniformly ground as we can possibly get it. Then, if we load the coffee into a portafilter, and tamp it (with an exactly sized tamper, with an exact amount of pressure [perhaps]), and then extract the coffee for an exact amount of time.... we MAY get something drinkable in return. If we do, then that's great... but without being able to replicate all of those "exact" settings again, we probably won't get the same result and will probably get something that tastes different (in a good or bad way, but just different) the next time.

With a Classic, the temperature of the boiler is controlled by a very crude bimetallic strip thermostat. This turns the heating elements on when it's below about 107C and then turns them off above it. In theory. In practice, given the way a thermostat works, the brew water in the boiler fluctuates by around 8C-10C as the thermostat cycles on and off again. Some Classic "wizards" have mastered the art of temperature 'surfing' - which means that you know (based on the 'ready' light on the brew switch) exactly when to hit the button in the cycle in order to get something approaching the temperature of water that you desire. However, it's a black art and still pretty imprecise.

So - some bright spark invented the PID controller - which, when combined with an RTD temperature sensor (which replaces the thermostat) allows the PID controller to monitor the boiler temp to within 0.1C and accurately control the power being applied to the heating elements to keep the boiler within a pretty close range of a user defined "set" temperature. SO - you can set the water temperature to whatever you want..... 92C, 94C, 93.5C, etc. - and the PID will keep the boiler at that temp (and therefore the water within it). The water will still reduce in temp slightly as you pour a shot (as cold water is being pumped into the boiler) but the PID reacts to it reasonably quickly (quicker than the thermostat) and gets the heat on again.

Bottom line is, the brew water temp is adjustable to whatever you want - and will reasonably consistently stay at that temperature. This almost certainly improves the coffee you're getting out of the machine.

*2. Will this improve the steaming power?*

Again, what you're experiencing on the standard machine is the STEAM thermostat (set at about 140C) turning on and off as you try to steam. The machine is hot, and then as you steam the pressure/temp drops and the thermostat takes a while to "wake up" and get the heat back on, and when it does you find that the steam comes back again.

With the PID controlled machine, you can set the temperature that you steam at (and as temperature is directly proportional to pressure, the pressure of the steam being produced). Although the PID algorithm is not used to control the steam temp (it's a more crude off/on above and below the set steam temp), it's much better controlled than with the thermostat - and if you want more pressure then you just increase the steam temperature (within reason and/or the limits of the thermal safety fuse!). So - you should have MUCH better steam power available with a PID controlled machine (search YouTube, there are videos on there with Classics just sat there pouring steam out constantly).

Hope the above helps, but please feel free to ask further questions at any time.


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## Wuyang

Many thanks MrShades for taking the time to write and explain that so well.....appreciate it.

I will be saving my money and buying one from you........I will just have to be patient, now need to decide which which to buy.


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## rdmn

Just installed the kit. The assembly was pretty frustrating but it works like a charm!! Thanks MrShades!!

And thanks @vwjones for the idea with the mount. I think my Classic now looks like Number 5 from Short Circuit


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## TomD

Hi All.

Would just like to endorse MrShades as I purchased a PID case and PT100 sensor from him through eBay. Fantastic quality items and a really helpful guy.

Thanks very much.


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## MrShades

TomD said:


> Hi All.
> 
> Would just like to endorse MrShades as I purchased a PID case and PT100 sensor from him through eBay. Fantastic quality items and a really helpful guy.
> 
> Thanks very much.


Many thanks Tom - I hope your coffee has improved with your PID - and I also hope you hang around on here, we're a pretty good bunch and always eager to discuss any aspect of coffee.

Cheers!


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## TomD

MrShades said:


> More than happy to give you some further insight...
> 
> *1. How will it improve your coffee???*
> 
> Well, when making espresso we're (most of the time, and allowing for most of the expense!) trying to remove variables. We want water to be precisely at a specific temperature, we want an exact dose of ground coffee, and we want that ground coffee to be as uniformly ground as we can possibly get it. Then, if we load the coffee into a portafilter, and tamp it (with an exactly sized tamper, with an exact amount of pressure [perhaps]), and then extract the coffee for an exact amount of time.... we MAY get something drinkable in return. If we do, then that's great... but without being able to replicate all of those "exact" settings again, we probably won't get the same result and will probably get something that tastes different (in a good or bad way, but just different) the next time.
> 
> With a Classic, the temperature of the boiler is controlled by a very crude bimetallic strip thermostat. This turns the heating elements on when it's below about 107C and then turns them off above it. In theory. In practice, given the way a thermostat works, the brew water in the boiler fluctuates by around 8C-10C as the thermostat cycles on and off again. Some Classic "wizards" have mastered the art of temperature 'surfing' - which means that you know (based on the 'ready' light on the brew switch) exactly when to hit the button in the cycle in order to get something approaching the temperature of water that you desire. However, it's a black art and still pretty imprecise.
> 
> So - some bright spark invented the PID controller - which, when combined with an RTD temperature sensor (which replaces the thermostat) allows the PID controller to monitor the boiler temp to within 0.1C and accurately control the power being applied to the heating elements to keep the boiler within a pretty close range of a user defined "set" temperature. SO - you can set the water temperature to whatever you want..... 92C, 94C, 93.5C, etc. - and the PID will keep the boiler at that temp (and therefore the water within it). The water will still reduce in temp slightly as you pour a shot (as cold water is being pumped into the boiler) but the PID reacts to it reasonably quickly (quicker than the thermostat) and gets the heat on again.
> 
> Bottom line is, the brew water temp is adjustable to whatever you want - and will reasonably consistently stay at that temperature. This almost certainly improves the coffee you're getting out of the machine.
> 
> *2. Will this improve the steaming power?*
> 
> Again, what you're experiencing on the standard machine is the STEAM thermostat (set at about 140C) turning on and off as you try to steam. The machine is hot, and then as you steam the pressure/temp drops and the thermostat takes a while to "wake up" and get the heat back on, and when it does you find that the steam comes back again.
> 
> With the PID controlled machine, you can set the temperature that you steam at (and as temperature is directly proportional to pressure, the pressure of the steam being produced). Although the PID algorithm is not used to control the steam temp (it's a more crude off/on above and below the set steam temp), it's much better controlled than with the thermostat - and if you want more pressure then you just increase the steam temperature (within reason and/or the limits of the thermal safety fuse!). So - you should have MUCH better steam power available with a PID controlled machine (search YouTube, there are videos on there with Classics just sat there pouring steam out constantly).
> 
> Hope the above helps, but please feel free to ask further questions at any time.


MrShades I hope you don't mind me adding to this but something I've found in relation to steaming power with a PID is that due to the boiler temperature being displayed it allows to temp surf really easily so without any modifI cation of steam circuit control just by watching the temperature of the boiler I can start steaming when the boiler reaches 120 degrees then the heater stays on constantly while steaming any amount of milk giving a pretty constant steam flow.


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## MrShades

Yup - you're right, it does make it easier - and watching the temp display is half the fun of a PID!

If you use the PID to control the steam temp as well, then you can increase the temp above standard (and hence pressure) and have even more power and fun with your milk.


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## Z3ro

Just waiting for my salary to arrive and going to order your PID straight away. I own my gaggia classic for about 3 months now and have already carried out Silvia steam wand mod, OPV mod @9 bar, brass dispersion plate, IMS shower screen and replaced former 107C thermostat for a 100C one. The results are better with the lower temp thermostat but still it's not enough - temp surfing all the time and waiting waiting waiting for the temperature with less than desirable results. I have found your PID kit on ebay and it really impressed me. Can't wait to buy and install it to my gaggia


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## Z3ro

Just completed my order on eBay  can't wait!


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## MrShades

Z3ro said:


> Just completed my order on eBay  can't wait!


And I've just posted it - so it's on its way!

Thanks for ordering, any problems then please just pm me on here, or contact me via email or eBay


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## Z3ro

MrShades said:


> And I've just posted it - so it's on its way!
> 
> Thanks for ordering, any problems then please just pm me on here, or contact me via email or eBay


Great news! The manual is printed and included in the package or do I have to download it somewhere? Sorry for such a stupid question.


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## MrShades

Z3ro said:


> Great news! The manual is printed and included in the package or do I have to download it somewhere? Sorry for such a stupid question.


There's a link to it, which is included with the kit - but I'll PM it to you also so that you can start reading.


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## GCGlasgow

Best mod you'll do to a classic...i'd advise reading through the manual before starting to fit unless you know what your doing.


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## Z3ro

Yeah went quickly through the manual in my spare time today and I'm kind of scared of the installation.. I hope that I'll be able to do it once it arrives.


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## GCGlasgow

I was able to do it and not got a clue about things like this, just follow the instructions...take pics as you go along also for putting back together.


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## Z3ro

Taking pictures is a good idea, better safe than sorry! Thanks for the tip GCG


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## Fischermann

Hi MrShades,

I'm from Germany and i am really interested in your PID for the Gaggia Classic with the single display.

How difficult is the installation of the PID into the Gaggia?

How much is the PID with the single display with shipping to Germany?

Best wishes

Tom


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## grumpydaddy

If you enter the ebay number 122097079449 on ebay.de I think you will see a postage cost of £15...... but best let the man himself confirm that I don't have it all wrong.


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## MrShades

Fischermann said:


> Hi MrShades,
> 
> I'm from Germany and i am really interested in your PID for the Gaggia Classic with the single display.
> 
> How difficult is the installation of the PID into the Gaggia?
> 
> How much is the PID with the single display with shipping to Germany?
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Tom


Hi Tom

Thanks for your interest - it's better buying it through the Forum than on eBay, and looking at everything I could shop to Germany for an extra £10 - so £104 for the 1/32DIN kit.

There are plenty of people from this forum who have bought my kit and have claimed to have very little knowledge of anything electrical or technical - and all have succeeded so far. Hopefully with the aid of my 65 page fitting manual, and the instructions and photos that it contains, it should be reasonable simple. Probably best to listen to others in that respect though and looking back through this thread may well give you a few insights.

I'm on holiday at the moment and won't be home to ship anything until Friday, so you have plenty of time to decide what to do and to order one.

If you drop me a PM if/when you'd like one then I can send you payment info.

Many thanks

Adrian


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## Z3ro

PID arrived today! Spent some time with the manual and the installation was pretty straight forward. I have to highly recommend this kit! Gonna enjoy much better coffe now, thanks to Adrian!

PS: I am a very non-tech guy but I did this easily thanks to Adrian's awesome manual. And if I was able to do it.. everyone is then 

Cheers


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## 322

Would this kit fit to an old model gaggia cubika?


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## banjobill

Just placed my order now...I love new shiny things!!!!!


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## banjobill

The PID arrived yesterday, and I waited approx 12 minutes from walking through my door before getting all the tools together and get to work fitting it.

I thought I would upload a couple of photo's.

So here's the during...organised chaos, and I was feeling brave and just loosened the boiler rather than removed it.









And here is the finished product just about at temperature!!!









With the brilliant guide, and everything being labelled, it took around 3 hours including a break in between to make dinner.

Made my first coffee this morning with it, and I admit I was rather sceptical over the improvement people have been quoted...everything said is COMPLETELY TRUE!!!!

Thanks Mr Shades, you sir, are a gent and a scholar.


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## Asgross

Mr shades

I've managed to pull this "U" shaped connecter out from the inside of my classic, from your pid kit









Any idea where I need to reconnect it to ?

Thanks

Alan


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## MrShades

That's an easy one @Asgross - it's the yellow cable which is simply an earth for the PID case. It just needs to connect to any part of the metal case inside the Classic, normally I'd recommend putting it between one of the SSRs and the case using the SSR mounting screw (if that makes sense).


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## Asgross

Thanks for your help


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## Asgross

Hi mr shades,

Another request!

I've changed phones and the instruction pid PDF has not clouded over to my new phone

My old link to you Ntl PDF does not seem to work either

Is it possible for me to download another copy of you pid instructions manual

Thanks Alan


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## MrShades

@Asgross Have PMd it to you Alan!


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## Asgross

Thanks again


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## Jollybean

Hi Mr Shades. Thanks for your help with my PID issue. Much appreciated


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## heppy9979

Hi Mr Shades, would it be possible to just purchase a manual from you? Thanks in advance


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## MrShades

heppy9979 said:


> Hi Mr Shades, would it be possible to just purchase a manual from you? Thanks in advance


I'm sorry, the manual is only available as part of the kit.

Much of the information is already available either on here or other Gaggia specific forums and it's not too tricky to find - but it took a great deal of effort and time to put the complete manual together, and to protect the "investment" that both I and others who have bought the full kit have made, I don't plan to make the manual available to anyone without buying the full kit.


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## heppy9979

MrShades said:


> I'm sorry, the manual is only available as part of the kit.
> 
> Much of the information is already available either on here or other Gaggia specific forums and it's not too tricky to find - but it took a great deal of effort and time to put the complete manual together, and to protect the "investment" that both I and others who have bought the full kit have made, I don't plan to make the manual available to anyone without buying the full kit.


No problem. I understand


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## Macca

Go on then Mr Shades, count me in for one.

Time to pimp Ma Gaggia!


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## MrShades

Macca said:


> Go on then Mr Shades, count me in for one.
> 
> Time to pimp Ma Gaggia!


Thanks - will drop you a PM


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## greymda

can you sell only the cables?


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## MrShades

greymda said:


> can you sell only the cables?


Sorry, the kit is the complete kit - and (as with the manual) it's either everything or nothing. If I start letting "part kits" go out, then I'll end up picking up the pieces and solving installation and use problems for people when I have no idea what the component parts are or whether they're suitable or correct - so to make life easier for everyone concerned (OK, mainly me) - I'm only selling the complete kit.

I sell the aluminium enclosures and the Pt100 sensor separately, but that's it.


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## greymda

understood and i got the idea you stand for









one more question, if i may. XMT7100 when used with PT100 - does it show decimals (as REX-C100) and is quicker in algorithm or it's just a waste of money (PT100 vs K sensor)? sorry if this thread is not the very appropriate place for such discussion, but you are the most informed person i know on this matter, so... thanks


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## MrShades

K type TC will give 1c temp resolution, Pt100 will give 0.1c resolution.


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## dougy1968

how do i purchase on of your kits ?


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## Macca

Just applied the final cable tie before popping the lid back on and finishing the install. Smugly thought, "lets tidy it up and snip that cable tie down a bit"...

*snip*

Cable tie cut back... and straight through 2 wires whilst at it!!

F***

@MrShades- how do I order a replacement wire?


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## MrShades

Macca said:


> Just applied the final cable tie before popping the lid back on and finishing the install. Smugly thought, "lets tidy it up and snip that cable tie down a bit"...
> 
> *snip*
> 
> Cable tie cut back... and straight through 2 wires whilst at it!!
> 
> F***
> 
> @MrShades- how do I order a replacement wire?


LOL - muppet ;-)

Drop me a PM and tell me which ones you need - and I'll sort you out for the price of the postage (just tell me if you want 1st class or 2nd class post)


----------



## Macca

MrShades said:


> LOL - muppet ;-)
> 
> Drop me a PM and tell me which ones you need - and I'll sort you out for the price of the postage (just tell me if you want 1st class or 2nd class post)


You're a bloody hero!


----------



## MrShades

Macca said:


> You're a bloody hero!


I try... you're a bloody plonker ;-)


----------



## MrShades

dougy1968 said:


> how do i purchase on of your kits ?


I'll drop you a PM with the details


----------



## Jollybean

Mr Shades - thanks so much for your skill and patience in helping getting my classic working again with one of your bespoke RTDs. Great bit of kit and top man. Never has a flat white tasted so sweet!


----------



## MrShades

Thanks for your kind words @Jollybean - working great by the looks of things and I'm glad my custom made (just for you!) M5 sensor has brought your machine back to life. Great stuff!

We won't talk about what that flat white cost now will we.... ;-)


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

@MrShades if you don't mind me asking (and completely understand if you'd rather keep it close to your chest, as part of the kit's added value), where did you source the rather natty 1/32 controllers?


----------



## MrShades

Quetzalcoatsy said:


> @MrShades if you don't mind me asking (and completely understand if you'd rather keep it close to your chest, as part of the kit's added value), where did you source the rather natty 1/32 controllers?


China ;-)


----------



## Quetzalcoatsy

Ah indeed, and possibly a bulk order discount







I shall continue looking...


----------



## dougy1968

Mr Shades - Just want to say thank you for your help with my PID kit, you took time answering my texts whilst watching fireworks ! Cant believe the difference in the steam pressure. Still rubbish at Latte Art mind ! Thanks one again Mr Shades !


----------



## greymda

hi again, and - again - sorry for a bit of hijacking the thread, but maybe you can help me out.

i've connected for a test the pid with a pt100 sensor and in ice water it shows 20.4C...

  

have you encounter such problems? regards from Moldova!


----------



## MrShades

greymda said:


> hi again, and - again - sorry for a bit of hijacking the thread, but maybe you can help me out.
> 
> i've connected for a test the pid with a pt100 sensor and in ice water it shows 20.4C...
> 
> 
> 
> have you encounter such problems? regards from Moldova!


No - not if it's configured correctly.

Suggest you ask whoever you bought your pid and pt100 from to help you if you have problems configuring it.


----------



## banjobill

I've hit an issue yesterday morning that almost brought me to tears* (*this may be a lie).

When I'd made my espresso yesyerday morning with delight, hit the switch to get the temperature up for the milk steaming...then disaster...the temperature didn't budge, sat there at 93C, off/on again did nothing.

Eventually I manually increased the temperature on the PID to hit a steaming temp and steamed the milk.

Is there something which has gone wonky and can be easily fixed? It's not happened in several months of use since installing it.


----------



## MrShades

I'll PM you and help


----------



## Nammy57

Hello

how do I purchase a Gaggia Classic PID from you

Best Wishes

Mark N


----------



## Glenn

Hi Mark

Once you reach 5 (meaningful) posts you will be able to use the Private Messaging features on the forum

Pop over to the Introductions section and start engaging - you'll soon be at 5 posts

Glenn


----------



## banjobill

Well after 4 days and countless messages, I'm up and running again with the steamed milk!!

For anyone who is debating getting one of these, I've said earlier that it's a brilliant mod, fairly simple to fit and the help and support that Adrian gives puts **insert company with **good customer service** to shame.

Thanks again MrShades, you've gone out of your way to help me on this one.


----------



## greymda

can i ask what temperature value set you guys have on your PID?


----------



## maths15

greymda said:


> can i ask what temperature value set you guys have on your PID?


93 for the water, 135 for steam


----------



## greymda

maths15 said:


> 93 for the water, 135 for steam


93 is set on the pid display? hmm.


----------



## maths15

Yes


----------



## greymda

last question, what is the offset set to?


----------



## Asgross

Isn't this posting / topic referring to mr shades kits ?

If it's a Diy or another's kits

Maybe start a new topic??


----------



## greymda

well, this is the place where PIDers of GC are mostly. but, well, if a moderator can delete my messages - please do.


----------



## EbenTian

Hi everyone....i am a new user here. I want to know what info we're actually losing from the larger display in return for the smaller size/neatness of this new 1/32 version. I guess the info of primary importance is the current temperature which I assume must be displayed on both versions anyway.

printed circuit board assembly china


----------



## GCGlasgow

The larger version has the set temperature as well as current temp


----------



## luke

I think I might have to look at a PID purchase after Christmas, this sounds great!


----------



## virodri

Hello everyone,

i installed MrShades PID Kit and it work really good.

My question: Is it normal that during the shot the PID loose 5 degrees till the PID begins to increase the Temperatur back to set temperature?

I run the Autotune cycle twice during the machine was heated for at least 30min.

My parameters of the PID are at the moment:

P = 0.52

I = 0132

d = 034

Is there a way to optimize the control reaction?


----------



## johnealey

EbenTian said:


> Hi everyone....i am a new user here. I want to know what info we're actually losing from the larger display in return for the smaller size/neatness of this new 1/32 version. I guess the info of primary importance is the current temperature which I assume must be displayed on both versions anyway.


See post no 8 on the first page if that helps

John


----------



## Jack-Jones

I've just fitted one of MrShades single line display (1/32DIN) PID kits and thought I'd share my experience with a few photos.

Firstly, a big thank you to MrShades for supplying this excellent kit and for all his help and support. Although the install was straightforward and the instructions take you through it in simple stages, I had a slight problem (caused by my own stupidity) that MrShades helped me through, getting me back up and running in no time at all.

The Kit arrives in three small bags and two boxes. Basically, one box contains the PID, the other, the aluminium PID housing, while the bags contain the steam SSR and wiring, the Brew SSR and wiring and another with the thermostat and a few necessary bits and pieces. The instructions are already provided after you send payment via an online link to a PDF download.

MrShades recommends reading the instructions a couple of times before attempting to install the kit and I can't stress how important that is, as it will prevent you having to go back and remove/adjust things wasting time in the process. All in all, my install took bang on four hours, but I reckon that can easily be cut by an hour, as I was having a good old look around the inside of the Gaggia along the way.

After getting into the case, just remove the boiler! Playing around trying to get the new thermostat fitted with the boiler in situ doesn't work and can damage the Thermostat.









Fitting the Brew and Steam SSR's is straightforward. Just make sure you connect the wiring up to the back of the PID during each stage, as it will be a nightmare tracing it all back later on, with a high possibility of wrong connections.









Likewise, make sure you mark/label everything you remove. It'll save you a lot of time! There are three connectors that won't be reconnected. I left them in place, as I know I'd lose them if I took them out, so I labelled them for future reference, a nice fine Sharpie pen works fine!









The amount of cabling might look daunting, but, the instructions take you through it in stages, so everything is connected before you move onto the next stage. Although I mounted my PID to the side of my Gaggia, others have mounted them across the back or even mounted it on a bracket over the filler cap. You are only limited by the length of cabling and there is plenty of it.









And the final finished job.









Was it worth it? Definitely! Even though I've only poured a few shots since finishing the upgrade.

I've never had a problem with producing good crema, yet now there is more of it and thicker. I was slightly disappointed with my last batch of beans, as there was a definite lack of sweetness with this batch (I thought). However this has helped to improve things a little, but, by far the biggest improvement for me is when producing steam. There is just lots more of it. Previously I'd get the steam up to temperature and pretty much waste it getting rid of the excess water through the wand, then wait for the temp light to go out, as I knew there now wouldn't be enough steam, then have to get it back up to temperature where it would then be fine (never could get the hang of temp surfing).

Now, with the PID fitted, (using the recommended settings) I'm getting more than enough steam from the outset, seemingly at greater pressure too, as just a slight cracking of the steam valve is now enough to instantly purge any water through the wand. Thanks MrShades.


----------



## MrShades

Thanks @Jack-Jones - that's a brilliant and very helpful write up Paul. It's excellent and very helpful lto get a good honest review from a user along with some fine photographs.

I hope you enjoy your newly improved Classic and that it continues to give you years of reliable service and very drinkable coffee!


----------



## Jack-Jones

Thanks Adrian, It's a great upgrade thanks to your kit. Just a couple of minor things to fit (brass shower screen holder along with better screen) and I think I'm done for a few years.


----------



## rey_one

Just installed the kit!

Took some time but in the end everything worked, despite getting interrupted every few minutes by our little daughter

















This shows the original packaging in which the whole kit was shipped, it served as temporary installation-platform..









Now testing around with some temperatures..

Thanks for setting me up with this kit MrShades!

Cheers,

Rey


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

Hi all,

my name is Thomas and a thread in the German Kaffee-Netz forums has been attracting my attention to this discussion here.

All this sounds very interesting to me and seems to make a powerhouse for steaming and brewing out of my Gaggia CC.

Could you, Adrian, be so kind to send me a pm to discuss the purchase conditions.

To all others, I apologize for not contributing to the CoffeeForums.uk although from what I see this is a nice place to be















.

Thanks for your understanding and

kind regards from Germany,

Thomas


----------



## slipperydippery

virodri said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> i installed MrShades PID Kit and it work really good.
> 
> My question: Is it normal that during the shot the PID loose 5 degrees till the PID begins to increase the Temperatur back to set temperature?
> 
> I run the Autotune cycle twice during the machine was heated for at least 30min.
> 
> My parameters of the PID are at the moment:
> 
> P = 0.52
> 
> I = 0132
> 
> d = 034
> 
> Is there a way to optimize the control reaction?


I'm also really happy with the kit, and am also wondering about the other settings. How do I go about optimizing the settings?


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

After having read this thread there's still one thing that isn't clear for me: if my understanding is right one can set 2 target temperatures, i.e. one for the boiler temperature for brewing and a second for steaming (provided you got the 2nd SSR installed). Right? If so, do I guess right by assuming that the PID automatically switches from one target temp to the other depending on the position of the Gaggia CC steaming switch (middle switch)?

Thanks in advance for enlightment.


----------



## Jack-Jones

OnlyLatteorwhat? said:


> After having read this thread there's still one thing that isn't clear for me: if my understanding is right one can set 2 target temperatures, i.e. one for the boiler temperature for brewing and a second for steaming (provided you got the 2nd SSR installed). Right? If so, do I guess right by assuming that the PID automatically switches from one target temp to the other depending on the position of the Gaggia CC steaming switch (middle switch)?
> 
> Thanks in advance for enlightment.


You'd be correct @OnlyLatteorwhat?

If you're finished brewing, flick the steam switch and the boiler starts heating to the upper steam temp (recommended 137°c) that you set after installation. There is also a lower temp (recommended 136.9°c) where, once triggered, the boiler will kick in again.


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

@Jack-Jones: thanks for your explanations.

Just can't wait to order the PID set and to enjoy my Gaggia's hidden power...


----------



## MrShades

OnlyLatteorwhat? said:


> Hi all,
> 
> my name is Thomas and a thread in the German Kaffee-Netz forums has been attracting my attention to this discussion here.
> 
> All this sounds very interesting to me and seems to make a powerhouse for steaming and brewing out of my Gaggia CC.
> 
> Could you, Adrian, be so kind to send me a pm to discuss the purchase conditions.
> 
> To all others, I apologize for not contributing to the CoffeeForums.uk although from what I see this is a nice place to be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Thanks for your understanding and
> 
> kind regards from Germany,
> 
> Thomas


Thanks for your post - and I'll send you a PM with more information.

Please note, however, that due to a small delay with my manufacturer I'm currently out-of-stock of the aluminium boxes for the 1/32DIN kit - and don't expect to have more here for around 10 days.


----------



## MrShades

Just a quick update to the above - more cases will be here on Tuesday, so I'll be shipping kits again (hopefully) from Wednesday onwards.


----------



## MrP

Very interested in this.

I have one concern, how does this affect the longevity of the machine and it's parts? Does this put extra strain on the components etc?


----------



## gros_ibou

Hello Mr Shades,

I was in contact with before about buying a PID set, but the forum does not let me post PMs anymore.

Can you send me a PM saying how I can reach you?

Thanks

gros_ibou


----------



## MrShades

MrP said:


> Very interested in this.
> 
> I have one concern, how does this affect the longevity of the machine and it's parts? Does this put extra strain on the components etc?


Hi @MrP

As far as the PID being used to control the brew temperature goes, I don't believe that it will change the longevity of the machine negatively. There's a good chance that the Pt100 sensor and PID controller would last longer than the standard thermostats do, as they occasionally fail or are problematic, so it may actually change the longevity of the machine positively. As you can set the brew and steam temperatures to whatever you like, if you decide to massively increase the steam temperature from standard - and used the steam facility a great deal - then you may find that the wider thermal cycling and higher temperatures that you push the elements and boiler to COULD negatively impact on longevity... but I'd suggest that this would only be the case if you decided to significantly increase the steam temperature ie from 137c [which is often standard] to 150/160+c [which would be stupidly high]... (you can't really massively increase the brew temp and still make reasonable coffee!)

There's "longevity" as in, how long the machine will last before it fails (or fails beyond economical repair - as Classics are usually relatively cheap to repair even when they do have issues) - and there's "longevity" as in, how long will you be happy to keep it before upgrading to a better machine....

...and taking this latter definition, then it massively extends the life of your Classic ownership and may mean that you don't need to upgrade or don't want to for some considerable time.


----------



## MrShades

For the avoidance of doubt - I now have plenty of stock of cases for this kit and have been shipping again this week.


----------



## B-Roadie

Hello @MrShades,

I'm trying to keep my fettling twitch in check but it seems I am seriously limited in what I can mod on my 2015 (week 16 if it makes any odds). Will one of your PID kits fit a 2015 machine?

I finally got around to order a Rancilio wand tonight but I can't fit a brass dispersion plate and IMS screen as I wished ☹️


----------



## jkuehl

Just wanted to confirm that my kit arrived - i ordered on sunday, Adrian sent it out on monday, and on wednesday (yesterday) it already arrived here in Sweden! Looking forward to a great weekend upgrading my gaggia! Thanks for sending it out so fast!


----------



## jkuehl

Hey i got it installed last evening and its working on the first try ;-)

But i have one question left regarding brew water temperature:

I have set SV to 93.0 degrees C and everything to the parameters suggested. The display displays 93.0 once stable. It is suggested to adjust the "Psb" value to -08.0 to account for the difference in boiler and brew water temperature. What is the exact mechanism here? Is it only a display offset or also automatically increases the brew water temperature? Of should i set SV to 101 degrees when using Psb -08.0?

Some tipps for everyone installing the kit:

- mark all the connections you are unplugging

- the plastic counterpart of the steamvalve may fall off when you demontage the boiler. No problem, but i did not see it and had to remove the boiler once more to get it on again ;-)

- make sure to put all the cables through the hole in the back of the aluminum box and ALSO through the rectangular hole of the aluminum cover for the pid. The cover can only be fit from the back onto the pid.

- take your time, read everything, check if everything is there and then calmly start building. Took me only about 2 hours including reading everything (and having to demontage the boiler once more and unscrewing all cables again to fit them through the cover)


----------



## OnlyLatteorwhat?

Jack-Jones said:


> You'd be correct @OnlyLatteorwhat?
> 
> There is also a lower temp (recommended 136.9°c) where, once triggered, the boiler will kick in again.


I've finished the whole process (1/16 version) and confirm that the installation manual as well as the support provided by Adrian himself is absolutely fantastic. Anyway I'll post a more detailed feedback soon here but right now there's one question that intrigues. Which parameter in which configuration menu allows me to configure the lower threshold i.e. the lower temperature that triggers the heating for brewing respectively steaming? Can anyone help?

Thx in advance.


----------



## MrShades

OnlyLatteorwhat? said:


> I've finished the whole process (1/16 version) and confirm that the installation manual as well as the support provided by Adrian himself is absolutely fantastic. Anyway I'll post a more detailed feedback soon here but right now there's one question that intrigues. Which parameter in which configuration menu allows me to configure the lower threshold i.e. the lower temperature that triggers the heating for brewing respectively steaming? Can anyone help?
> 
> Thx in advance.


Thanks for the positive feedback - glad it's all working well!

The 1/32DIN controller has two alarm settings - an upper and lower one. The 1/16DIN Rex C100 doesn't - it just uses the single AL1 value - it heats when below this and stops heating when above it.


----------



## MrShades

jkuehl said:


> Hey i got it installed last evening and its working on the first try ;-)
> 
> But i have one question left regarding brew water temperature:
> 
> I have set SV to 93.0 degrees C and everything to the parameters suggested. The display displays 93.0 once stable. It is suggested to adjust the "Psb" value to -08.0 to account for the difference in boiler and brew water temperature. What is the exact mechanism here? Is it only a display offset or also automatically increases the brew water temperature? Of should i set SV to 101 degrees when using Psb -08.0?
> 
> Some tipps for everyone installing the kit:
> 
> - mark all the connections you are unplugging
> 
> - the plastic counterpart of the steamvalve may fall off when you demontage the boiler. No problem, but i did not see it and had to remove the boiler once more to get it on again ;-)
> 
> - make sure to put all the cables through the hole in the back of the aluminum box and ALSO through the rectangular hole of the aluminum cover for the pid. The cover can only be fit from the back onto the pid.
> 
> - take your time, read everything, check if everything is there and then calmly start building. Took me only about 2 hours including reading everything (and having to demontage the boiler once more and unscrewing all cables again to fit them through the cover)


Thanks for the great feedback!

Regarding the offset - it adjusts what the controller reads from the sensor (and uses or displays).

So with -8c and 93.0sv : the controller will be reading 101.0c and applying -8.0c before doing anything else... so your display temp will show 93.0 and your SV will be 93.0 - but the real temp being sensed by the pt100 is 101.0c


----------



## MrShades

B-Roadie said:


> Hello @MrShades,
> 
> I'm trying to keep my fettling twitch in check but it seems I am seriously limited in what I can mod on my 2015 (week 16 if it makes any odds). Will one of your PID kits fit a 2015 machine?
> 
> I finally got around to order a Rancilio wand tonight but I can't fit a brass dispersion plate and IMS screen as I wished ☹️


Sorry, only just seen this so apologies for the late reply... no my kit isn't designed for the 2015 and onwards machines, sorry.

If it has a 'depressurisation' tube - the chrome tube that runs vertically into the drip tray above the back left of the drip tray - then it's a pre-2015 machine (that has a solenoid valve) and the kit will be fine. If it's not got one then it won't.


----------



## pavo

Thinking of doing this mod and putting the PID where the filler funnel is. Non-destructive as I'll be making a new top cover / cup tray. It should be easy to have a sheet laser-cut to the right shape. Then the PID will be mounted face-up in a cutout in that sheet. Anybody tried this? If it works, I'll post pictures and will share the drawing for the laser cutter.


----------



## gk36

Hi MrShades. Can you shed some light onto the operational functionality of the PID - have never encountered one before.

My classic's ready light doesn't work and I sense an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Does the PID still use the original ready light to communicate being at it's new brew temp? Or does it have it's own indicator on the display?


----------



## MrShades

gk36 said:


> Hi MrShades. Can you shed some light onto the operational functionality of the PID - have never encountered one before.
> 
> My classic's ready light doesn't work and I sense an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Does the PID still use the original ready light to communicate being at it's new brew temp? Or does it have it's own indicator on the display?


Good question - but let me try and help.

The Classic has a "ready" light on the brew switch, but this is simply showing the opposite of when power is applied to the heating elements. Hence when the elements have power, the light is off, and when the elements don't have power the light is on.

In a standard Classic then this light reacts with the standard thermostat - so they tell you that it will come on when it's ready - but in fact all it's doing is coming on when the thermostat first turns the heating elements off after initial heating cycle.

When you PID a Classic the same thing happens - but the PID controls the heating elements in a much more precise and incremental fashion - which means that the "ready" light normally flicks on and off periodically and doesn't really tell you anything about the machine being at a stable temp and ready for use.

HOWEVER, on the PID there is a digital display - which tells you precisely what the temperature of the boiler is. The whole idea of a PID is that you can then set a desired temperature (eg 93.0c) and leave the PID controller to turn the elements on and off to allow the machine to heat the boiler to 93.0c - and stabilise at that temperature. You can see that it's at 93.0c because the display shows exactly that.

Hence on a PID controlled machine you have a much better indication of brew temperature, and the ready light is largely redundant. There's a small "OUT" light on the PID display panel that shows when power is being applied to the elements, and this also would be the inverse of your "ready" light (so OUT comes on and the "ready" light would go off, etc.).

So - short answer - yes, it'll help solve your "ready" light issue, and you won't really need it to work if you have a PID.


----------



## gk36

MrShades said:


> Good question - but let me try and help.
> 
> The Classic has a "ready" light on the brew switch, but this is simply showing the opposite of when power is applied to the heating elements. Hence when the elements have power, the light is off, and when the elements don't have power the light is on.
> 
> In a standard Classic then this light reacts with the standard thermostat - so they tell you that it will come on when it's ready - but in fact all it's doing is coming on when the thermostat first turns the heating elements off after initial heating cycle.
> 
> When you PID a Classic the same thing happens - but the PID controls the heating elements in a much more precise and incremental fashion - which means that the "ready" light normally flicks on and off periodically and doesn't really tell you anything about the machine being at a stable temp and ready for use.
> 
> HOWEVER, on the PID there is a digital display - which tells you precisely what the temperature of the boiler is. The whole idea of a PID is that you can then set a desired temperature (eg 93.0c) and leave the PID controller to turn the elements on and off to allow the machine to heat the boiler to 93.0c - and stabilise at that temperature. You can see that it's at 93.0c because the display shows exactly that.
> 
> Hence on a PID controlled machine you have a much better indication of brew temperature, and the ready light is largely redundant. There's a small "OUT" light on the PID display panel that shows when power is being applied to the elements, and this also would be the inverse of your "ready" light (so OUT comes on and the "ready" light would go off, etc.).
> 
> So - short answer - yes, it'll help solve your "ready" light issue, and you won't really need it to work if you have a PID.


This is as hoped! Perfect - expect an order soon!


----------



## Groke

Hi MrShades. This sounds awesome so very tempted to place an order. I couldn't see details of how to do so in the thread so if you could msg me that would be great! Thanks


----------



## MrShades

Groke said:


> Hi MrShades. This sounds awesome so very tempted to place an order. I couldn't see details of how to do so in the thread so if you could msg me that would be great! Thanks


More than happy to help - just please drop me a PM on here once you're able to do so and I'll send you all the details.

As I've mentioned before, I try to keep the sale of my kits on here to forum contributors / active members (as opposed to people who register purely to buy a kit or obtain anything else from this forum without being an active part of it). The only qualification criteria I can easily use is by only responding to PMs - as you need a handful of posts in order to send them.

I hope I've explained my reasoning and you don't find it unreasonable.


----------



## nomilknosugar

A quick query, apologies if it was discussed before, but I searched the forum and couldn't find it.

I'm about to embark into a spot of PID modding. @MrShades writes in the manual that the temperature offset is about -8C. My inner geek would like to measure the temperature difference between boiler temp and brew temp in more detail, to see if it's really 8 degrees in my machine.

Does anyone have a tip where and how best to measure the brew temperature? Take off portafilter and "shoot" 50 mL into a pre-warmed container? Or what have you tried?

Thanks, folks.


----------



## MrShades

nomilknosugar said:


> A quick query, apologies if it was discussed before, but I searched the forum and couldn't find it.
> 
> I'm about to embark into a spot of PID modding. @MrShades writes in the manual that the temperature offset is about -8C. My inner geek would like to measure the temperature difference between boiler temp and brew temp in more detail, to see if it's really 8 degrees in my machine.
> 
> Does anyone have a tip where and how best to measure the brew temperature? Take off portafilter and "shoot" 50 mL into a pre-warmed container? Or what have you tried?
> 
> Thanks, folks.


Question 1: How much are you prepared to spend in order to "accurately" measure this temp?

Question 2: How much "faffing" around and construction / gluing / drilling are you prepared to do in order to do so?

The easy way is to purchase a Scace device - though unfortuantely it's by far the most expensive and you'll probably need to import from the US : https://www.espressoparts.com/search?q=scace

The next option is to make a DIY scace device - with digital thermometers, drilling baskets, gluing thermocouples in, etc. - lots of faffing and some expense, but not huge. (There's a few threads on here and elsewhere concerning DIY Scace's : https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?19509-DIY-thermofilter-build-ideas )

Cheapest option is the "styrofoam cup" method: http://www.home-barista.com/tips/seeking-low-tech-way-to-measure-brew-temperature-t898.html

You'll probably find that the above methods are listed in decreasing cost, but also in decreasing accuracy. You pays your money, etc.

...or you can just accept that the -8C is a good guess and reasonably typical of most Classics, and that the PID temp display is a reference point and not a true and accurate temp reading. It's a point that enables you can adjust the brew temp up or down by a few degrees... so 93c becomes 95c - which is definitely 2 degrees hotter than it was, but not necessarily exactly a 93c to 95c change.

Have fun!


----------



## nomilknosugar

Crikey, thanks for the comprehensive reply! Styrofoam and/or trust in MrShades is definitely the way to go!


----------



## zoglet

Many thanks to Mr Shades for an excellent kit. Arrived super quick, even though I'm in Germany and brilliantly put together and packaged.

I took my time reading the manual, printed it out too. Definitely recommend having a hard copy of pages covering the parts reference guide or at least the cable descriptions to avoid going forwards and backwards later. One thing I found handy was taking a fine magic marker and pre labelling all the connectors and taking photos inside. I also labelled up the connectors in the switchbank from 1 through 12 (1-4 row one (there is no 3) and then 5-8 and 9-12 on following rows) to make it easier to identify the connectors if I removed them.

Installation took about three hours, although I took things really slow. I recommend leaving yourself a day so you go at your own pace, and take your time to read and cross reference the manual. I ask one question (Is the ground pin on the PID supposed to remain unconnected, answer is yes) and Mr Shades answered the same day, so again, thanks for such a prompt response.

Once everything was installed, the PID setup was also pretty straightforward, although there were a couple of places where, being a noob, I would have preferred simple "just use this value" statements rather than being given a choice, especially as at the end you learn that once initially set, the PID can be set to autotune anyway. All in all, pre/re-reading each section as you go along is worthwhile.

I'm not sure if it's just luck or placebo effect but I'm sure my first test shots tasted way better. Either way, I'm very happy to be able to see exactly what's going on in the boiler now and see that the temperature is actively being monitored and adjusted to the right settings, rather than just hoping for the best / temperature surfing.

A top kit, much appreciated Mr Shades. Thank you again!


----------



## zoglet

MrShades said:


> I've been toying with the idea of cutting it into the left side of the black plastic filler funnel thingy also. I reckon it may well fit, and could probably be done (at a push) so that the lid/cover still fits over the top.


Might be worth having a chat with tcw, who I got a great 3D printed shallow drip tray from. I wonder what 3D printed magnificent housing solutions could be produced with a bit of collaborative thinking. I'd definitely be on the list to buy one!


----------



## pavo

This has been in the works since I installed my PID last month, but other projects meant I finally had time today to install this...

...I present to you the all-metal top tray (a test tomorrow will confirm whether I can call it a cup-warming tray) with mounted PID.

As I rarely used the filler funnel, I decided to do away with it. What do you think?


----------



## crmdgnly

Not sure if this has been covered earlier in this thread (or the other PID Thread) but can this be (or has this been) installed in any other models?

I have a Gaggia Paros that I would like to install it in so I'd like to know about that. Also, I use a Gaggia Baby (an older Ivory one) and wondered about one for that but it's in storage in Australia at the moment, I was wondering if it was worth taking one back to fit in it there.

I'm holding out for a guage to do the OPV mod first, but reading everyone's views (and suspecting the 15+ year old temp switched might be past their best) I though it seemed a sensible direction to take.

Thanks


----------



## MrShades

crmdgnly said:


> Not sure if this has been covered earlier in this thread (or the other PID Thread) but can this be (or has this been) installed in any other models?
> 
> I have a Gaggia Paros that I would like to install it in so I'd like to know about that. Also, I use a Gaggia Baby (an older Ivory one) and wondered about one for that but it's in storage in Australia at the moment, I was wondering if it was worth taking one back to fit in it there.
> 
> I'm holding out for a guage to do the OPV mod first, but reading everyone's views (and suspecting the 15+ year old temp switched might be past their best) I though it seemed a sensible direction to take.
> 
> Thanks


I've had quite a few people fit this kit (or the other one) to a Gaggia Baby. Only real issue with the Baby is the plastic case, and hence not having ready made holes in the back for the routing of cables and the mounting of the SSRs.

Paros is very similar to a Baby, as far as the espresso machine part is concerned, so I don't see an issue there either. I've not known of anyone fit my kit to a Paros, but again the only unusual part would be finding mounting locations for the controller, the two SSRs and routing the necessary wires.

The core components (ie the boiler) is identical to a Classic in both cases, and the Baby and Paros both have physical push buttons to control it (rather then fancy electronics and PCBs in some other models!) so I don't see an issue with either of them.


----------



## crmdgnly

Thanks, There appears to be lots of room in the Paros so I am quietly confident. I'll await my OPV mod (one the list for a gauge elsewhere on the forum) and then be in touch. Having read about your very helpful support I'm happy that the bit that worries me most (wiring from the switches etc) will be easily within your scope of expertise.


----------



## cavem01

crmdgnly said:


> Not sure if this has been covered earlier in this thread (or the other PID Thread) but can this be (or has this been) installed in any other models?
> 
> I have a Gaggia Paros that I would like to install it in so I'd like to know about that. Also, I use a Gaggia Baby (an older Ivory one) and wondered about one for that but it's in storage in Australia at the moment, I was wondering if it was worth taking one back to fit in it there.
> 
> I'm holding out for a guage to do the OPV mod first, but reading everyone's views (and suspecting the 15+ year old temp switched might be past their best) I though it seemed a sensible direction to take.
> 
> Thanks


With a bit of modding it can be used for a Silvia


----------



## _shakeyjake_

pavo said:


> This has been in the works since I installed my PID last month, but other projects meant I finally had time today to install this...
> 
> ...I present to you the all-metal top tray (a test tomorrow will confirm whether I can call it a cup-warming tray) with mounted PID.
> 
> As I rarely used the filler funnel, I decided to do away with it. What do you think?
> 
> View attachment 28182


That's pretty tidy, I was thinking of doing the same thing the other day. Very rarely use the filler at the top as I like to use fresh water rather than top up. Looks much tidier than the case.

Order my kit and received it today! Very excited to get it all working!


----------



## Si macc

Another happy customer here. Really enjoyed the install, especially with such a well written and detailed manual. Highly recommended and Adrian is very swift in replying to any questions/concerns. Looking forward to playing with another variable in espresso making! Although going to master the others before attempting to play around with temp, one step at a time! Better coffee and much better steaming so very happy with my purchase!


----------



## Rakesh

Ill take one of these Adrian, ill PM you now.


----------



## vwjones

rdmn said:


> Just installed the kit. The assembly was pretty frustrating but it works like a charm!! Thanks MrShades!!
> 
> And thanks @vwjones for the idea with the mount. I think my Classic now looks like Number 5 from Short Circuit


Number Five is alive!


----------



## jpj001

Fitted my kit over the weekend and it's all working perfectly. As other users have commented I also enjoyed the process and found the instructions very comprehensive.


----------



## Dickie26

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I'm interestedly in purchasing the 1/32 din pid kit for my Gaggia classic, however I'm unable to pm mr shades directly as I have not yet done 5 posts. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Richard.


----------



## MrShades

Dickie26 said:


> Hi, I'm new to this forum. I'm interestedly in purchasing the 1/32 din pid kit for my Gaggia classic, however I'm unable to pm mr shades directly as I have not yet done 5 posts. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Richard.


Hi Richard,

As I've mentioned on here previously, when you have your five posts then please PM me and I'll be glad to help.

I use this "pm contact" process on here to limit the availability of the kit to active users. I hope you understand.

Adrian


----------



## donbastiano

Hi Adrian,

sorry, my English is verry bad, so I cant´t write so much









Is your kit working with the old gaggia classic (Year 2000)?

What is the Price for the single Display model with shipping to Germany?

Tnanks!

Sebastian


----------



## MrShades

donbastiano said:


> Hi Adrian,
> 
> sorry, my English is verry bad, so I cant´t write so much
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is your kit working with the old gaggia classic (Year 2000)?
> 
> What is the Price for the single Display model with shipping to Germany?
> 
> Tnanks!
> 
> Sebastian


Hi Sebastian,

The kit certainly works with year 2000 Classics, no problem - and shipping to Germany is easy and not too expensive.

As per my messages above - when you have 5 posts, please PM me and I'll be very glad to help further.

Adrian


----------



## donbastiano

Hi Adrian,

o.k., thanks for the quick Information!

Sebastian


----------



## Dickie26

Hi Adrian,

Thanks for getting back to me, hope to be in touch soon.

Richard


----------



## Paul CS

Hello everyone,

My very first post.

Over the years I have gone from a Nespresso (don't shoot me) to AeroPress with pre ground coffee, then hand ground (Hario) and most recently got a 2003 Gaggia Classic. That was after stumbling across the Monsoon Coffee guys in Warwick on Saturday afternoon.

I'm still learning about the technique to make a great espresso and the millions of variables such as the grind, tamping force, temperature etc.

This evening I was surfing looking for a coffee grinder because the Hario can take a while and I find needs constant adjustment. I then came across this forum and the PID. I'm still learning about this but I think I need it. I'd have no problem fitting it because I have a technical background.

In parallel I need to chose a grinder. The Eureka Mignon MK2 seem one to go for.

Anyway, help and advice gratefully received.

Best.

Paul


----------



## Gaz|

If I pull the trigger on a classic today or tomorrow I may well have one of these kits if still available! Cheers


----------



## MrShades

Gaz| said:


> If I pull the trigger on a classic today or tomorrow I may well have one of these kits if still available! Cheers


Still available, yes indeed.

Ordering is via PM so just send me a PM and I can sort you out.

There has been a delay in shipping recently, but I'm hoping that this will be resolved this week - so should be shipping within the next week.


----------



## abraxas69

Just wanted to say many thanks to Mr Shades for your recent help - a fantastic bit of kit, and always a pleasure conversing with you!

Cheers

Ian


----------



## MrShades

abraxas69 said:


> Just wanted to say many thanks to Mr Shades for your recent help - a fantastic bit of kit, and always a pleasure conversing with you!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ian


Many thanks Ian - and it's always my pleasure. Glad you and your Classic are now all good!

Adrian


----------



## bramblesummer

So far so good from Mr Shades. Kit turned up no issues, just need to find a quiet evening to drop it into the machine. Really impressed with the responsiveness through the sales process. I did buy through eBay then later decided to join into the forums.


----------



## John James

Another thanks to Mr Shades for putting up with my, in hindsight, daft questions. My advice is to follow the manual to the letter and it is easy to set up. I found I was overthinking some things, especially setting up the PID values, just follow it step by step and it all works out.

It took me probably 4 hours in total, it would have been quicker had I followed my own advice above!

I did take the boiler out, it seemed so much easier than trying to bend fingers in directions they are not designed to go, and to try and see what you are doing all at the same time.

I would add a long nosed pliers to the list of tools, just to hold the nut and washer in place when bolting on the SSR's to the back of the case. I had the head of the bolt to the outside and the nut and washer to the inside.

Two shots so far and both tasted marvellous, I might risk another one which probably means I won't get any sleep tonight.


----------



## bramblesummer

I can indeed confirm that it took 2 hours with no issues at all. Step by step follow the guide (I'd actually say it's almost too full of information, took longer to read some bits than actually do it) and you'll be fine.

Some time fiddling with the PID is going to be needed as I'm not convinced it's stable at the first bash. I'll try an auto tune availability then some of the suggested parameters in the book. Saying that, it's only been through 1 heating cycle so far, so really early days in my learning curve.


----------



## maumaumau

Hey Adrian, I would like to purchase your kit. Would you be so kind and contact me via pm?









Greetings from Germany

mau


----------



## MrShades

maumaumau said:


> Hey Adrian, I would like to purchase your kit. Would you be so kind and contact me via pm?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings from Germany
> 
> mau


Thanks for your post - but as I've mentioned a few times previously on this thread, once you can PM me then please do so and I'll be glad to help.


----------



## M4xime

Kit received this week and to be installed this weekend, exciting times!


----------



## MrShades

M4xime said:


> Kit received this week and to be installed this weekend, exciting times!


Great - good luck, and if you have any problems, questions or issues at all then please just PM me.


----------



## J_Fo

Hey Mr Shades, I'd like one of these please, I'll PM you


----------



## maumaumau

It took me (and my girlfriend who helped me) quite a while, but we did it!

I'm still experimenting with the pid values, but it is not too bad for now.

Shipment was quick and I got answers almost immediately.

Thanks Adrian!

Greetings

mau


----------



## J_Fo

Really can't recommend this kit enough, as long as you read the instructions it's very easy to fit and Mr Shades will answer any questions very promptly!

Only made a couple of cups since installing but the difference is clear.


----------



## jarm

Hi mrshades, just wondering if I install the pid on a classic, would it be hard to transplant onto a Silvia in the future? Ta


----------



## johnealey

@jarm if you use the @ before a correctly spelt user name it may get them quicker ( dependant on how they got their notifications set up) @MrShades

John


----------



## MrShades

Thanks for your post @jarm and then tag @johnealey.

If it's a Silvia with a screw in thermostat, with M4 mount, like the Classic - then all parts would be directly reusable. However you'd probably find that some of the wires weren't the right lengths or are incorrectly terminated - so you'd need to make up some new connecting wires here and there.

A Classic to Silvia move is more of a sideways shift than a true upgrade - so it might be worth keeping the Classic and saving up for something better anyway - IMHO


----------



## cahal74

Hi

might there be enough interest in a 2015 classic PID to put one together now. there must be a lot of us out there now interested in one.

C.


----------



## jkanalog

cahal74 said:


> Hi
> 
> might there be enough interest in a 2015 classic PID to put one together now. there must be a lot of us out there now interested in one.
> 
> C.


Hi all,

first thing first - I'm new to this forum as well new to Gaggia Classic family / moderate coffee addict and VERY keen to PID my Gaggia RI9403/11. This forum is really great! Many interesting stuff.

SO, before start digging in your posts I was about to order Auber kit from US, but I would prefer to buy solution within EU and from a member ( @MrShades ).

I do hope that would be possible to arrange PID setup for new model!

All best from Slovenia,

Jure.


----------



## M4xime

Hey guys,

I've been struggling with the mod (All down to me, @MrShades has been brilliant at helping) and was wondering if someone in London would potentially be able to help me get it sorted? It's starting to be quite frustrating for both myself and MrShades and I'm edging towards buying a brand new Rocket machine!


----------



## cahal74

Just out of curiousty cos dont think i could be much help, but is the problem selecting/installing hardware or setting PID. or both.

C.


----------



## MrShades

It's neither of those really. Currently the wiring (ie normal Classic wiring) inside Max's machine is ... shall we say... "somewhat confused".

I'm working with him to diagnose what's incorrectly wired and where (and have already rectified quite a few issues) but it's taking time via PM and photos. Max is right on suggesting that someone who knows the inside of a Classic well could easily help if they can get their hands/eyes on the actual machine.

I'd gladly do it - but I'm more than an hours drive away.

I'm not one to shy away from a challenge - so I'm still working to rewire and diagnose the issues - but happy to challenge anyone else to try and beat me to a final resolution!!


----------



## ashcroc

MrShades said:


> It's neither of those really. Currently the wiring (ie normal Classic wiring) inside Max's machine is ... shall we say... "somewhat confused".
> 
> I'm working with him to diagnose what's incorrectly wired and where (and have already rectified quite a few issues) but it's taking time via PM and photos. Max is right on suggesting that someone who knows the inside of a Classic well could easily help if they can get their hands/eyes on the actual machine.
> 
> I'd gladly do it - but I'm more than an hours drive away.
> 
> I'm not one to shy away from a challenge - so I'm still working to rewire and diagnose the issues - but happy to challenge anyone else to try and beat me to a final resolution!!


Where abouts in London are you @M4xime? If you're close enough I may be able to help.


----------



## MrShades

I'm closing in fast... reckon I'm nearly there (live connection to solenoid earth not currently helping!)


----------



## M4xime

ashcroc said:


> Where abouts in London are you @M4xime? If you're close enough I may be able to help.


SE - West Norwood. Happy to come to you with the machine if that's easier though.


----------



## MrShades

If I were anyone getting close to this machine I think I'd want Holy water and a good priest on speed dial...


----------



## ashcroc

M4xime said:


> SE - West Norwood. Happy to come to you with the machine if that's easier though.


Haven't got much space so probably easier if I come to you. Can pop over either tomorrow or Sunday if you still need help.


----------



## MrShades

ashcroc said:


> Haven't got much space so probably easier if I come to you. Can pop over either tomorrow or Sunday if you still need help.


Knowledge of standard Classic wiring - and the ability to read the Classic schematic (in the back of my PID manual) would be a big help.

I'm still quietly confident...


----------



## ashcroc

MrShades said:


> Knowledge of standard Classic wiring - and the ability to read the Classic schematic (in the back of my PID manual) would be a big help.
> 
> I'm still quietly confident...


Played with my tebe & used to repair domestic appliances. Compared to a washing machine a classic schematic is a cakewalk to follow.


----------



## MrShades

ashcroc said:


> Played with my tebe & used to repair domestic appliances. Compared to a washing machine a classic schematic is a cakewalk to follow.


Ah - great - to you and me it's simple... ;-)


----------



## M4xime

Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU to both @MrShades and @ashcroc for rescuing me and my Gaggia Classic! They've both been super patient and super helpful whenever I was about to give up and if it wasn't for them I probably would have bought another machine by now ...

Thank you!!


----------



## Missy

M4xime said:


> Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU to both @MrShades and @ashcroc for rescuing me and my Gaggia Classic! They've both been super patient and super helpful whenever I was about to give up and if it wasn't for them I probably would have bought another machine by now ...
> 
> Thank you!!


So does this mean it's been successfully exorcised? Great news if so!


----------



## MrShades

Missy said:


> So does this mean it's been successfully exorcised? Great news if so!


Yup - all working!!!


----------



## ashcroc

M4xime said:


> Just wanted to say a huge THANK YOU to both @MrShades and @ashcroc for rescuing me and my Gaggia Classic! They've both been super patient and super helpful whenever I was about to give up and if it wasn't for them I probably would have bought another machine by now ...
> 
> Thank you!!


Glad we finally got it sorted & couldn't have done it without @MrShades knowledge of the machine & it's internals.

Having seen the PID in action I'm now more sure than ever I need one for my tebe!

Was nice meeting you & Gizmo.


----------



## cahal74

Well done guys. So does this mean there'll be a kit available to buy.


----------



## ashcroc

cahal74 said:


> Well done guys. So does this mean there'll be a kit available to buy.


Just PM @MrShades if you want to order one.


----------



## cahal74

Ok thanks again


----------



## cahal74

cahal74 said:


> Hi
> 
> might there be enough interest in a 2015 classic PID to put one together now. there must be a lot of us out there now interested in one.
> 
> C.





jkanalog said:


> Hi all,
> 
> first thing first - I'm new to this forum as well new to Gaggia Classic family / moderate coffee addict and VERY keen to PID my Gaggia RI9403/11. This forum is really great! Many interesting stuff.
> 
> SO, before start digging in your posts I was about to order Auber kit from US, but I would prefer to buy solution within EU and from a member ( @MrShades ).
> 
> I do hope that would be possible to arrange PID setup for new model!
> 
> All best from Slovenia,
> 
> Jure.


@MrShades i misread this, after the 2 posts above i thought/hoped that @M4xime was trying to mod the 2015 classic. So is there no hope for us classic 2015 owners except ordering from the US.


----------



## MrShades

Sorry- still no plans for a 2015 kit for various reasons.

I may start some initial thoughts this year though - and you never know... next year may be better!

(There are some challenges with the new design that id like to overcome properly - especially in the temp sensor department - and that's stopping me right now)


----------



## cahal74

no probs hopefully next year so

Cheers


----------



## mg512

Just wanted to give a big Thank You! to @MrShades for making this.

I just got the RTD sensor (via ebay) and put together an Arduino based PID controller for my Gaggia - works amazingly well, coffee seems much more consistent now judging from initial impressions. And I can turn on my machine from my phone now! No more getting out of bed in the morning just to switch it on and let it heat up.









And the sensor was so easy to install - can't imagine how much of a hassle it would have been to try to fit an off-the-shelf RTD to the boiler somehow. The instructions say to take out the entire innards of the machine, but I haven't even found that necessary by the way. Just disconnecting the wires from the boiler and front switch panel and unscrewing the boiler allowed me to lift the boiler out of the machine far enough to easily reach the brew thermostat and replace it with the RTD. No need to disconnect the pump from the housing, nor the tube going from the solenoid to the drainage outlet. Those are a bit hard to reach I think, so it's much easier to leave them in place I think.


----------



## les24preludes

I haven't read all the posts yet, but I'm wondering if there's a PID that can be fitted in the base of one of the Gaggia Baby models. There's empty space there and dials have been fitted in the past.


----------



## MrShades

Fitting a dial and fitting a PID are two very different things - I have a pressure gauge in the front of my Classic, but there's no room for a PID.

If you don't want a drip tray, and want to risk having water falling onto a PID powered by 240V then mounting it at the front of the machine is a (dangerous!) option.

I've always felt that a PID install should be reversible if necessary (or transportable to another machine) - and hence my kit doesn't involve any damage to the original machine at all and everything can be put back to standard if required.

Obviously if you want to look at alternative mounting locations then go for it - but in a Classic it's not easy at all - and I'd assume the same for the Baby.


----------



## les24preludes

Yes - I see that 240v needs careful location, good point. I'm looking into fitting some kind of thermocouple as a start and that could be non-invasive, e.g. linking up to an external multimeter or something equivalent. That would certainly be better than nothing!


----------



## J_Fo

les24preludes said:


> Yes - I see that 240v needs careful location, good point. I'm looking into fitting some kind of thermocouple as a start and that could be non-invasive, e.g. linking up to an external multimeter or something equivalent. That would certainly be better than nothing!


I'd suggest just fitting a PID, it's the best solution for temp stability


----------



## ashcroc

les24preludes said:


> Yes - I see that 240v needs careful location, good point. I'm looking into fitting some kind of thermocouple as a start and that could be non-invasive, e.g. linking up to an external multimeter or something equivalent. That would certainly be better than nothing!


All a thermocouple would show is the current temperature of the boiler. It won't remove the need to temp surf & the boiler will still be kicking in at the same huge drop in temp as before.


----------



## Badgerman

I will take one of these please. Will PM you @MrShades


----------



## jarm

Another happy customer, thanks Adrian!


----------



## MrShades

jarm said:


> Another happy customer, thanks Adrian!


I'm very glad to have another happy customer - especially one from the opposite side of the planet!

Thanks.


----------



## mg512

les24preludes said:


> I haven't read all the posts yet, but I'm wondering if there's a PID that can be fitted in the base of one of the Gaggia Baby models. There's empty space there and dials have been fitted in the past.


A commercial PID won't fit, but an Arduino or similar can very easily fit inside a Classic, and I imagine most other machines as well. If all you want is temperature control, it's very simple to use two SSRs as drop-in replacements for the brew and steam thermostats; I had that up and running in an afternoon. I have an Arduino sketch that works with an ESP32 (Arduino-compatible, but much more powerful). It's not quite done yet, but I would be happy to share the current version if you want to give this a serious go. Temperature control including PID Autotuning are working perfectly at this stage, along with a few other things, and the setup is entirely invisible from the outside. There's a few other projects along similar lines as well, if you google something like "Arduino Espresso PID" etc.


----------



## Badgerman

Thanks so much @MrShades. All set up and working. A lot easier if you take the boiler out to fit the temperature sensor.

Does everyone use the standard settings of the PID? Any other recommendations?

What temperature do you set the Pv. I use that standard 80c with -8c offset. Is this correct?

Thanks!


----------



## MrShades

Badgerman said:


> Thanks so much @MrShades. All set up and working. A lot easier if you take the boiler out to fit the temperature sensor.
> 
> Does everyone use the standard settings of the PID? Any other recommendations?
> 
> What temperature do you set the Pv. I use that standard 80c with -8c offset. Is this correct?
> 
> Thanks!


Try some of the PID settings that I provide as useful ones in the manual - and try "autotune" and see which behaviour / results you prefer.

For temp (and I've just had another query about exactly the same thing) - 80c is way too low... go with 93 or 94 (with -8c offset) and see what you think, and then experiment +/- a few degrees around there and see what you prefer.

Glad you're enjoying it - but hopefully you'll enjoy it more with some hotter brew water!


----------



## Badgerman

MrShades said:


> Try some of the PID settings that I provide as useful ones in the manual - and try "autotune" and see which behaviour / results you prefer.
> 
> For temp (and I've just had another query about exactly the same thing) - 80c is way too low... go with 93 or 94 (with -8c offset) and see what you think, and then experiment +/- a few degrees around there and see what you prefer.
> 
> Glad you're enjoying it - but hopefully you'll enjoy it more with some hotter brew water!


Perfect thanks! Will increase pv and do an auto tune. Been using series 1 for PID.

Any tips for doing microfoam (with Rancilio wand)? Should I wait until reaches 137c and stabilises give it a blast to get rid of water then steam rather than the old way of switching on steam, blasting and then steaming within 10 seconds so boiler heating?

Thanks!


----------



## MrShades

Go with your first suggestion - wait for it to hit the desired steam temp (it won't stabilise, it'll fluctuate around the steam temp) - blast water out and then start steaming. You shouldn't run out of steam unless the boiler runs dry!!


----------



## Badgerman

Badgerman said:


> Perfect thanks! Will increase pv and do an auto tune. Been using series 1 for PID.
> 
> Any tips for doing microfoam (with Rancilio wand)? Should I wait until reaches 137c and stabilises give it a blast to get rid of water then steam rather than the old way of switching on steam, blasting and then steaming within 10 seconds so boiler heating?
> 
> Thanks!


Also is 137c for the top steam temp the best?


----------



## J_Fo

Badgerman said:


> Also is 137c for the top steam temp the best?


Not sure if there's a best temp as such but I have mine set to 137 and have had good results.

And I usually have my PID set to 94 or 95 (as a general rule I believe it's good to have slightly higher temps for lighter roasts).


----------



## DavTee

Just finished fitting mine too - thanks @MrShades! I must say, the instructions are spot on but the one thing that they don't say is that you need to change the brew temperature, the instructions say to leave the factory settings, which is where the 80c comes from. It doesn't take much working out but unless you knew to change it to 94ish you wouldn't bother. My brew light on the front panel flashes off randomly since I fitted the PID - is that normal or an issue?


----------



## MrShades

DavTee said:


> Just finished fitting mine too - thanks @MrShades! I must say, the instructions are spot on but the one thing that they don't say is that you need to change the brew temperature, the instructions say to leave the factory settings, which is where the 80c comes from. It doesn't take much working out but unless you knew to change it to 94ish you wouldn't bother. My brew light on the front panel flashes off randomly since I fitted the PID - is that normal or an issue?


Yes, I think that's something that I should add to the next revision of the manual - and probably quite quickly... good spot all!

The flashing on/off is completely normal - as the brew light is the reverse of what the heating elements are doing (so light is on when the elements are off, etc.). As the PID flickers the heating elements on and off to maintain a stable temp, then the brew light flickers in the same way.


----------



## Stu

At some point in the future I'll be grabbing this excellent kit.

I have a question that i haven't seen answered before; with the PID control, is it still essential or best practice to allow 30 mins or more for warmup or is the boiler stabilised much quicker? I'm guessing the grouphead and portafilter still need the time to get warm.


----------



## J_Fo

Stu said:


> At some point in the future I'll be grabbing this excellent kit.
> 
> I have a question that i haven't seen answered before; with the PID control, is it still essential or best practice to allow 30 mins or more for warmup or is the boiler stabilised much quicker? I'm guessing the grouphead and portafilter still need the time to get warm.


Yeah, still need to preheat/stabilise, I give mine at least half an hour.


----------



## salty

I'm very tempted to take the PID plunge and I've gone through all the many threads on the forum to pick up as much as I can about what's required and judging by the overwhelmingly positive feedback and experience of so many people, including quite a few who don't claim to be natural born engineers or electricians, I'm pretty sure this is a project for me.

Just a quick question if I may - what's the general method for attaching the unit to the outside case? Is it a permanent i.e. drilled solution or do you suggest an alternative method?

Thanks

Tim


----------



## ashcroc

salty said:


> I'm very tempted to take the PID plunge and I've gone through all the many threads on the forum to pick up as much as I can about what's required and judging by the overwhelmingly positive feedback and experience of so many people, including quite a few who don't claim to be natural born engineers or electricians, I'm pretty sure this is a project for me.
> 
> Just a quick question if I may - what's the general method for attaching the unit to the outside case? Is it a permanent i.e. drilled solution or do you suggest an alternative method?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tim


It's usually just stuck on with a bit of 3m tape to be 100% removable without leaving a trace.

I should really get one for my tebe too but would need to plan mounting carefully as the top (the otherwise obvious place to stixk the PID) is completely removable. Could probably fabricate a nice bracket for it though.


----------



## salty

ashcroc said:


> It's usually just stuck on with a bit of 3m tape to be 100% removable without leaving a trace.
> 
> I should really get one for my tebe too but would need to plan mounting carefully as the top (the otherwise obvious place to stixk the PID) is completely removable. Could probably fabricate a nice bracket for it though.


That's good to know - thanks. I wondered if it would be tape or even Velcro patches but wondered if there was a problem with heat affecting the adhesive. Good to hear it's a simple solution!


----------



## John James

salty said:


> I'm very tempted to take the PID plunge and I've gone through all the many threads on the forum to pick up as much as I can about what's required and judging by the overwhelmingly positive feedback and experience of so many people, including quite a few who don't claim to be natural born engineers or electricians, I'm pretty sure this is a project for me.
> 
> Just a quick question if I may - what's the general method for attaching the unit to the outside case? Is it a permanent i.e. drilled solution or do you suggest an alternative method?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Tim


MrShades kit includes some double sided sticky sponge, but be warned, once you stick it on it isn't coming off! I pondered over where to place the box and eventually stuck it on the side, and vertical rather than horizontal so the base is stuck to the side of the machine. I can now read sideways but it looks a bit neater.

I am a complete numskull when it comes to wires, electricity and so on and over thought what I was doing and got very confused, when I followed the instructions without trying to understand them everything fell into place perfectly.


----------



## fenix

Fitted my one over the weekend, over the moon with it. Instructions are easy to follow with very good photos.


----------



## salty

I'm going to take the PID plunge - pm on its way @MrShades


----------



## salty

Superb bit of parcel action arrived for me yday - super exciting. Sod's law that I started a new job this week so can't get to work on it until the weekend


----------



## russe11

salty said:


> Superb bit of parcel action arrived for me yday - super exciting. Sod's law that I started a new job this week so can't get to work on it until the weekend


Bubble wrap and photocopies! You've been done ole son!!


----------



## salty

russe11 said:


> Bubble wrap and photocopies! You've been done ole son!!


Haha. I thought it was less complex than I was expecting


----------



## ashcroc

salty said:


> Superb bit of parcel action arrived for me yday - super exciting. Sod's law that I started a new job this week so can't get to work on it until the weekend


Look on the bright side. At least that gives you almost enough time to read the copious instructions!


----------



## drmarc

This thread is a great resource. Really interesting to see the difference that a PID makes to the trusty Classic. I'll definitely be in contact with @MrShades to get one for myself when I've saved up!


----------



## salty

@MrShades - I've just finished my PID installation.

OMG - what an amazing product you've put together. I really enjoyed the whole project from start to finish and I've just made myself a crankhouse decaf flat white and it was delicious and I'm pretty sure better than ever - and no guess work/temp surfing. I'm looking forward to more experimenting and tweaking over the coming days.

I did the installation with the boiler in place, although I loosened off the 4 retaining bolts and took off the steam knob - so had a bit of leeway. I also numbered the connectors on the switchbank, drew a plan and took them off - which meant that I had more room to work - all of which you describe in the instructions. Getting the brew stat out was simple enough - just needed cracking with a 17mm spanner and then screwing out by hand once the 2 connectors had been removed. Likewise, screwing in the temperature sensor was easy enough with a bit of jiggling and using the method set out in the instructions.

A couple of top tips from me:

watch a couple of the YouTube videos that detail taking a boiler out of the Gaggia before you start this. Even if you end up not removing the boiler it'll help you to familiarise yourself with the internals. And don't be afraid of taking the boiler out - there's nothing to it, if that's what you decide to do.

print off the detailed instructions that Adrian has prepared and read them through a couple of times. The attention to detail is astonishing and it'll help avoid doing things out of sequence, or incorrectly, and then having to go back to sort out later. it was great following the printed instructions and switching betwen different sections - all of which could be done viewing a PDF on a laptop or ipad but for me having it on paper was easier.

remember that every wire that comes out of the back of the machine and into the pid needs to go through the rubber grommet on the way to the PID and make sure that if you number the connectors and draw a plan of the switchbank you do it from the same viewpoint as shown in the instructions. I did my plan with the switch bank pushed out of the front of the machine - which is fine, except the instructions show the configuration from the inside of the machine looking forward.

if you want to improve your coffee with the Classic and you've done all the other mods (and even if you haven't) - order the kit. With a few simple tools that most people will have in their homes you can do a great upgrade, get better coffee, learn loads about your machine and have a lot of fun at the same time.

Thanks Adrian - awesome job!

Tim


----------



## ashcroc

salty said:


> @MrShades - I've just finished my PID installation.
> 
> OMG - what an amazing product you've put together. I really enjoyed the whole project from start to finish and I've just made myself a crankhouse decaf flat white and it was delicious and I'm pretty sure better than ever - and no guess work/temp surfing. I'm looking forward to more experimenting and tweaking over the coming days.
> 
> I did the installation with the boiler in place, although I loosened off the 4 retaining bolts and took off the steam knob - so had a bit of leeway. I also numbered the connectors on the switchbank, drew a plan and took them off - which meant that I had more room to work - all of which you describe in the instructions. Getting the brew stat out was simple enough - just needed cracking with a 17mm spanner and then screwing out by hand once the 2 connectors had been removed. Likewise, screwing in the temperature sensor was easy enough with a bit of jiggling and using the method set out in the instructions.
> 
> A couple of top tips from me:
> 
> watch a couple of the YouTube videos that detail taking a boiler out of the Gaggia before you start this. Even if you end up not removing the boiler it'll help you to familiarise yourself with the internals. And don't be afraid of taking the boiler out - there's nothing to it, if that's what you decide to do.
> 
> print off the detailed instructions that Adrian has prepared and read them through a couple of times. The attention to detail is astonishing and it'll help avoid doing things out of sequence, or incorrectly, and then having to go back to sort out later. it was great following the printed instructions and switching betwen different sections - all of which could be done viewing a PDF on a laptop or ipad but for me having it on paper was easier.
> 
> remember that every wire that comes out of the back of the machine and into the pid needs to go through the rubber grommet on the way to the PID and make sure that if you number the connectors and draw a plan of the switchbank you do it from the same viewpoint as shown in the instructions. I quite reasonably did the my plan with the switch bank pushed out of the front of the machine - which is fine, except the instructions show the configuration from the inside of the machine looking forward.
> 
> if you want to improve your coffee with the Classic and you've done all the other mods (and even if you haven't) - order the kit. With a few simple tools that most people will have in their homes you can do a great upgrade, get better coffee, learn loads about your machine and have a lot of fun at the same time.
> 
> Thanks Adrian - awesome job!
> 
> Tim


Don't forget to up the steam temp to 155°(assuming you set that side up too). The safety stat can handle it & you'll find the extra preasure a godsend.


----------



## salty

ashcroc said:


> Don't forget to up the steam temp to 155°(assuming you set that side up too). The safety stat can handle it & you'll find the extra preasure a godsend.


I set it to 137c and it was definitely better than before but I'll tweak further upwards - cheers


----------



## ashcroc

salty said:


> I set it to 137c and it was definitely better than before but I'll tweak further upwards - cheers


Ah forgot about the offset so will be less than 155°. Can't remwmber what it is offhand but it'll be in the instructions somewhere.


----------



## J_Fo

Congrats @salty !

I've got mine at 137 as well (think @MrShades mentions that as a starting point in the instructions), let me know where yours is set if you get a sec @ashcroc !

One thing I've noticed is that after pulling a shot the brew stat takes a while to come back to the right temp (tends to settle a degree higher then slowly drops back down), I'm sure I can adjust this by tweaking the variables on the PID but just wondering if others have experienced similar? Any thoughts or advice very welcome. I love my PID


----------



## ashcroc

Jon_Foster said:


> Congrats @salty !
> 
> I've got mine at 137 as well (think @MrShades mentions that as a starting point in the instructions), let me know where yours is set if you get a sec @ashcroc !
> 
> One thing I've noticed is that after pulling a shot the brew stat takes a while to come back to the right temp (tends to settle a degree higher then slowly drops back down), I'm sure I can adjust this by tweaking the variables on the PID but just wondering if others have experienced similar? Any thoughts or advice very welcome. I love my PID


Will do once I've had a chance to swap it to the tebe & have a play with it. Turns out only the pt100 sensor was bought fron MrShades but all other bits are the same. I just have no idea if the offset has been set to show brewgroup temp or ledt at boiler temp.


----------



## J_Fo

ashcroc said:


> Will do once I've had a chance to swap it to the tebe & have a play with it. Turns out only the pt100 sensor was bought fron MrShades but all other bits are the same. I just have no idea if the offset has been set to show brewgroup temp or ledt at boiler temp.


Don't know if your PID controller is the same as mine but if it is you can see what the offset is set to in the Psb section of the 0089 menu.

Mine is set to -8.


----------



## Badgerman

I have mine with a -8c offset and have the steamer set to 137c. Is that the best?


----------



## ashcroc

Badgerman said:


> I have mine with a -8c offset and have the steamer set to 137c. Is that the best?


137+8=145° so that's the same temp as the standard steam thermostat (albeit turning back on much earlier). Since you can uprate the steam thermostat to 155°, 147 on the PID should be fine & below the thermal fuse cutout.


----------



## Badgerman

ashcroc said:


> 137+8=145° so that's the same temp as the standard steam thermostat (albeit turning back on much earlier). Sunce you can uprate the steam thermostat to 155°, 147 on the PID should be fine & below the thermal fuse cutout.


Oh wow. That's great. Thanks will change it to 147 for the off and 146.9 for the on.


----------



## drmarc

My @MrShades PID kit arrived in the post today! Looking forward to installing it over the weekend.


----------



## drmarc

Well I couldn't wait until the weekend...

Installation went pretty smoothly. I also went for the top mount option.









Going to be drinking a lot of coffees this weekend and playing with the settings. Already massively impressed with the improved steaming power.

Thanks @MrShades. It's a great piece of kit.


----------



## jj-x-ray

I have a stupid question. Is the alu case necessary? Could you fit all the components within the classic, but loose?

Is it about protecting the components from heat and water?


----------



## MrShades

jj-x-ray said:


> I have a stupid question. Is the alu case necessary? Could you fit all the components within the classic, but loose?
> 
> Is it about protecting the components from heat and water?


Well - I'd say that the case is a necessary part of a safe and long-lasting installation, yes.

You COULD just throw all of the kit inside the Classic case - but it probably won't work for very long at all, would potentially be a fire/electrical shock hazard and generally wouldn't be recommended at all.

In the same way, you COULD try to make a complete espresso machine by throwing all of the parts into a wooden box - not fixing anything and just letting it all hang around inside the box - but that also may work initially, but isn't going to last very long!

If you buy my kit then it obviously comes with a case - but if you decide to go along a DIY route and not use a case at all, then it's obviously your machine, your kit and your life that you're risking so it's entirely up to you how and where you fit it.


----------



## Trev S-J

Just a quick thank you for the PID kit which I eventually installed ."Eventually " being the word having succumbed to such a rotten bout of flu and subsequent chest infection that I could not stomach coffee for just under two months.........not nice !!!!.

I found the instructions very clear ,concise and the photos invaluable.It took me a couple of afternoons to complete just because my attention span is easily distracted now that I`m retired and will decide to have a read, listen to some music etc.

When it came to setting up the PID I did give it the respect and attention it deserved and found that understandable after a few re reads.Only one problem was the original temp setting of brew head was coming up at 84 deg but a quick look on this forum put me straight and I was immediately getting a brewed cup that was more stable from one cup to the next.I have done a couple of auto tunes and that has seemed to improve recovery temp for next cup but will have a little play with the settings when I feel brave enough!!.

Mean while the coffee I am getting is quite an improvement from the old Machine and would recommend this kit to anyone who has the original type of classic ( pre 2015 I think ? ).

Now where is that new bag of coffee beans!!!!

Thankyou MRShades cracking bit of kit!!!.

Regards Trev S-J


----------



## jdenver

Does the PID kit do pre-infusion and steam temperature or is it just temperature of the brew? thanks.


----------



## MrShades

jdenver said:


> Does the PID kit do pre-infusion and steam temperature or is it just temperature of the brew? thanks.


It does steam and brew - but not preinfusion. However you can replicate the Auber preinfusion (which is very basic) by simply switching the brew switch off and then on again!

For better preinfusion you really want to fit a dimmer switch on the pump alone, which will allow a proper low press preinfuse and won't also disengage the solenoid valve.


----------



## jdenver

PID arrived this afternoon, just brewed my first cup with it installed with the default setting as per your .pdf Adrian - brilliant, will run the auto tune in the morning and do a second test. Thanks again, all works well.


----------



## ChiangMaiKevin

I am interested in gettin a PID... But I really don't like the look of the box glued to the side like a Borg appendage... Can a few people post pic of their less obtrusive installations?... Thanks in Advance...


----------



## cloughy

I think to the right hand side looks fairly neat but then I'm biased


----------



## MrShades

You can very easily just mount it on the rear of the machine - so it's not even visible.

Once set up you don't really need to fiddle with it very often at all. Some people like to have the temp display visible, but during normal use you don't need to be able to see or touch the PID controller itself - so mounting it discretely on the back is a very good option.


----------



## ZappyAd

I have mine unattached so I can put it out of the way most of the time and then bring it out to make an adjustment.


----------



## salty

Mine is stuck to an L bracket using the supplied tape and the bracket is attached to the casing at the back using the ventilation slots and a nut and bolt. Not my idea, saw it somewhere on this thread, but works well for me.










Once cups or glasses on top you don't really notice the bracket.










Just in case anyone reading this thread is undecided about fitting a PID - just do it! It's the best mod you can do for a classic and the mr shades kit is fantastic with superb detailed instructions with a ton of pics. It's fun to fit and anyone can tackle it with a few tools - just taking it step by step. Real sense of accomplishment when it's all put back together and noticeably better, more consistent coffee.


----------



## aidodo

Hi @MrShades , cant send PM at the moment due to low post count. How much to ship to Ireland ?


----------



## MrShades

aidodo said:


> Hi @MrShades , cant send PM at the moment due to low post count. How much to ship to Ireland ?


As per my previous responses to posts like this - please PM me once you have your post count up and I'd be very glad to help.

Adrian


----------



## Choronzon

Hi @MrShades . I wondered about buying just the temp sensor? I have a sestos D1S PID setup but the temp sensor is just a wire with no mounting method aside from sugru, but that makes it awkward to open the boiler. Do you happen to sell the temperature sensor separate and could you send to Manchester? Many thanks!


----------



## MrShades

Choronzon said:


> Hi @MrShades . I wondered about buying just the temp sensor? I have a sestos D1S PID setup but the temp sensor is just a wire with no mounting method aside from sugru, but that makes it awkward to open the boiler. Do you happen to sell the temperature sensor separate and could you send to Manchester? Many thanks!


Sure - take a look on here and search for Pt100 RTD sensor and you should find the thread quite quickly.

PM if you want one.

Manchester (or just about anywhere else on the planet) isn't a problem - I've sent them to most continents!


----------



## Eperes

@MrShades I'm temp surfing like crazy to get that temp just right, your PiD is well talk about, now , do you also offer pre-infusion as well ?


----------



## Lawman

Thanks @MrShades install complete.










Still wondering where to mount it, but need to clean the machine first. It's a bit late for coffee, but looking forward to tomorrow.

Great set of instructions.


----------



## ashcroc

Lawman said:


> Thanks @MrShades install complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still wondering where to mount it, but need to clean the machine first. It's a bit late for coffee, but looking forward to tomorrow.
> 
> Great set of instructions.


Might be too late for coffee (although currently have one on the go myself ?) but that just makes it the perfect time to run an auto tune.

Switches are looking mighty nice.


----------



## MrShades

Eperes said:


> @MrShades I'm temp surfing like crazy to get that temp just right, your PiD is well talk about, now , do you also offer pre-infusion as well ?


I've mentioned this a few times - but no, I don't have a pre-infusion function. However, the Auber implementation of it is basic to say the least - and is equivalent to turning the brew switch off and on again - so you can just do it manually and have completely flexible pre-infusion!

I prefer to have pre-infusion done by modding the pump with a dimmer switch - so that preinfuse can be (a) low pressure, and (b) done without the dis-engaging of the 3-port solenoid valve. Doing it via the PID is a gimmick, and in my opinion not even a particularly good or useful one.

So - if you want to pre-infuse do it either by flicking the brew switch off and then on again, or fit a dimmer switch to the pump (ideally with a pressure gauge too).


----------



## gk36

Mine arrived, and was fitted today! Haven't attached to machine yet - might try and do something with a hinge over the water inlet tray - going to have a play with a few configurations before I attach - then will photo accordingly!


----------



## gk36

In an attempt to attach mine without signigicant increase of any dimension of my machine's footprint, I went with a butt hinge along the side of the water inlet in the end.









One side of the hinge slides between the steel case and the plastic tray, and the other side was taped to the aluminium PID case, so it is still entirely reversable.

I used sugru to make a couple of silicon feet for the case so that it sat level in it's "closed" position, but still allows access to fill the machine.

















Very pleased with myself.


----------



## MrShades

I like that... a very clever idea, and it only needs a hinge. Good work Sir!


----------



## gk36

Thanks! I had toyed with the idea of 3d printing a different drip tray, with room for the PID at the bottom right - but this turned out more elegantly than I could have hoped - especially for being totally non-destructive. My one reccomendation from installation (instructions were fantastically clear, for the record) would be that if you're going to remove the thermostat and install the new one with the boiler in situ, as I did, to do these steps before popping the front switches out of the case. I ended up popping mine back in, as it gave a little bit more leeway to keep the existing wiring out of the way in the case.


----------



## Fuchsiflo

Hey Mr Shades, I'd like one of these PID's. Do you have any in stock?

Best regards from Austria

Florian


----------



## MrShades

Fuchsiflo said:


> Hey Mr Shades, I'd like one of these PID's. Do you have any in stock?
> 
> Best regards from Austria
> 
> Florian


Drop me a PM and I'll be glad to help.


----------



## Fuchsiflo

Thank you MrShades!


----------



## ChiangMaiKevin

Gk36.. I would add some Velcro to the bottom of the PID to adhere it to the water lid... Then when you flip the PID up the lid lifts up too ;-)


----------



## patrickf

I'd like to say a massive thanks to @MrShades. Great kit, well organised, and the documentation is pretty darn good. Definitely read it twice though.

The install went well although the fused wire caused some intermittent issues that appear to now be sorted. Absolutely excellent response by email and I cannot fault the support at all.

It's amazing what you learn when you start down this road of PID modding your machine.

I'll have to wait until the weekend to try my first brew though.


----------



## christimson

Very interested. Read this thread a couple of years ago when first needed new thermostat. Need new one when I rediscovered this thread.


----------



## christimson

I'm thinking the 107C brewing stat has died as it's blowing steam out of the group head intermittently. Never use the steam switch or wand, just do pure espressos in this household!


----------



## christimson

Kit arrived yesterday and installed this morning. Probably took 3 hours including cleaning and descaling inside. Outside needs a polish still ;-)

Delighted with how it operates and pulled a couple of good shots already!

Highly recommended, machine is transformed!

Chris


----------



## Inspector

Hi @MrShades

I have sent you pm regarding buying one set of these. Have you received it.

Cheers


----------



## MrShades

Inspector said:


> Hi @MrShades
> 
> I have sent you pm regarding buying one set of these. Have you received it.
> 
> Cheers


Yes, will reply as soon as I get the chance - hopefully this afternoon.


----------



## Lati

I guess I have to pull the trigger and get one of these. I'm not very technically inclined though so we'll see what happens







Sent pm.


----------



## Inspector

I fully recommend this kit to be installed to your gaggia. I thought i was drinking good coffee before









No more sourness or bitterness. No more temp surfing. Recovery time is also good if you do settings right.

Thumbs up for communication from MrShades as well.


----------



## grumpyjag

Hi MrShades,

I was wondering if your PID uses a single temp sensor and if so if both the bimetallic sensors are removed. Also do you know if the temp is stable enough across the height of he boiler that it doesn't matter which hole you use?

Thanks


----------



## ashcroc

grumpyjag said:


> Hi MrShades,
> 
> I was wondering if your PID uses a single temp sensor and if so if both the bimetallic sensors are removed. Also do you know if the temp is stable enough across the height of he boiler that it doesn't matter which hole you use?
> 
> Thanks


I can answer most of that for you. 

The sensor replaces the brew stat (the one on the side). You can choose to either keep running the steam via the steam stat or through the PID if you prefer. No need to remove to steam stat, it just gets disconnected.


----------



## grumpyjag

ashcroc said:


> I can answer most of that for you.
> 
> The sensor replaces the brew stat (the one on the side). You can choose to either keep running the steam via the steam stat or through the PID if you prefer. No need to remove to steam stat, it just gets disconnected.


Thanks very much. do you know if you could replace the steam stat and remove the brew one instead? I'm planning on wrapping in copper pipe and that would make things slightly easier I think.


----------



## ashcroc

grumpyjag said:


> Thanks very much. do you know if you could replace the steam stat and remove the brew one instead? I'm planning on wrapping in copper pipe and that would make things slightly easier I think.


You could as both stats have the same mounting but I've no idea how accurate it'd be. The brew stat is at the height of the water whereas the steam stat is above. The PT100 sensor MrShades supplies isn't that large though so I wouldn't think it'd get in the way too much if fitting a preheat coil and/or insulation.


----------



## mr-bean

Post edited: INCORRECT INFO


----------



## jesseosmer

I just purchased a Gaggia Classic 2015 (stainless steel boiler, etc.) and am wondering if your pid mod works for this machine as well.

Thanks,

Jesse


----------



## MrShades

jesseosmer said:


> I just purchased a Gaggia Classic 2015 (stainless steel boiler, etc.) and am wondering if your pid mod works for this machine as well.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jesse


Sorry, no it doesn't


----------



## jesseosmer

MrShades said:


> Sorry, no it doesn't


Ok, too bad. Thanks for the quick answer. Is it because of the change in boiler? If that is the case, then I assume the pid mod would work on the new 2018/19 model that goes back to the aluminum cast boiler?

Cheers,

Jesse


----------



## MrShades

jesseosmer said:


> Ok, too bad. Thanks for the quick answer. Is it because of the change in boiler? If that is the case, then I assume the pid mod would work on the new 2018/19 model that goes back to the aluminum cast boiler?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jesse


It SHOULD be much better suited to the new 2018 version, yes - mainly due to the boiler.

If you can get a pre 2015 or 2018 model then you're probably in a better place anyway!


----------



## jesseosmer

MrShades said:


> It SHOULD be much better suited to the new 2018 version, yes - mainly due to the boiler.
> 
> If you can get a pre 2015 or 2018 model then you're probably in a better place anyway!


My 1993 Jura Rio Profi died a couple days ago because I was cleaning it improperly and I needed a cheap and quick solution. The 2015 model was reduced to £160 including next day shipping. Now that I have been doing more research, the earlier or later model seem like a better choice, but not for twice the price. I'd really like to move up to a larger Rocket machine at some point but am not ready lay out that much cash yet.

Thanks for the quick replies,

Jesse


----------



## Fez

MrShades said:


> Sorry, no it doesn't


Ah, just when I learned about this mod and was thinking of getting one


----------



## Lati

Finally found the time to pid the machine. Instructions were very step-by-step and well written including practical tips. Took me probably 5 hours altogether with cleaning and descaling boiler, solenoid valve and group head, eating, drinking beer and surfing the internet at the same time. Zero problems and I think that I actually managed to learn something: maybe I could pid my next machine with lesser instructions. But I'm glad I didn't try this one by myself! Thank you to MrShades


----------



## jaifennessy

Hello all,

Had my Gaggia classic for about 4 years now but had no extra money to MOD it so was just surfing with the thermostat.

Also was using a moddded Delonghi grinder that has now died, so time to upgrade.


----------



## jaifennessy

So I've ordered a Gaggia MDF grinder and after much research have decided that MCshades PID is the one for me.


----------



## jaifennessy

So once I get enough replys done so that I can send him a PM I would like to get it ordered.


----------



## jaifennessy

So I'm an expat living in France and originally from Newquay in Cornwall......great town.


----------



## jaifennessy

I read in a recent post that you charge 10 pounds for post to Europe could you just confirm that please.


----------



## Hasi

Welcome!

You got enough posts done yet?


----------



## MrShades

jaifennessy said:


> I read in a recent post that you charge 10 pounds for post to Europe could you just confirm that please.


You must've hit that post count by now... LOL - just PM me!


----------



## Orabas

Hi all,

I recently purchased and installed this PID and wanted to share my experience and of course share my thanks to MrShades.

The purchase process was fantastic and the level of support from MrShades was second to none. The manual provided is thorough, dont be put off by the complexity of this task as its really not that bad! I enjoyed it









Regarding the improvements, consistency is the word that springs to mind. I've been able to refine my extraction to a level not possible before and finally moved away from the very sour shots I used to pull! Still early days but very positive results so far.

Steaming as already mentioned numerous times above is vastly improved. The power is amazing - takes a bit of time getting used to it!

I'd highly recommend this upgrade if you can afford it. I was considering upgrading my classic but I dont see a need to for a while yet...i'll spend that cash on a better grinder for now









Thanks again MrShades - cracking work and contribution to this forum.


----------



## Orabas

Latest / best extraction so far for anyone interested. Any pointers or observations welcome at the same time


----------



## jh297

Hi all! Entered into this world and have my gaggia classic coming tomorrow to pair with my super jolly auto (got both for £250). Just waiting to get my post count up so I can buy this!!


----------



## CasperGasper

Also just got this working -- as the Gaggia was new (to me) and I combined it with the OPV mod I can't say how much better it is now, but can confirm it's not hard at all. Managed to completely break the switch panel though putting it back, not sure if that's common as I didn't think I was using much force. Anyway, replaced now and all back and working. Thanks MrShades


----------



## catpuccino

Really excellent kit, bought through eBay - took a couple of hours to install and now just tweaking the PID config.

Anyone find their steam valve is not performing particularly well after installing the PID? Performs as normal (some drips/bleps) while heating up but when bringing it up to temperature for steaming and when I close the valve after steaming it really just streams steam. Brand new valve so can pretty much rule wear out.


----------



## EastBayCoffee

MrShades - I think I still need a few more posts, but was curious what is the cost with shipping for the entire kit to the States? The postal code is Oakland, CA, 94608

Cheers and I posted a similar query in your other post for the larger PID


----------



## Pants001

Ive done the OPV reduction on my classic, ordered a Silvia steam wand (yet to arrive) and now looking at a PID

From reading this thread it appears this is the easiest option with the best support going around.

Ill PM you for details MrShades and hopefully you can post to Australia?


----------



## MrShades

EastBayCoffee said:


> MrShades - I think I still need a few more posts, but was curious what is the cost with shipping for the entire kit to the States? The postal code is Oakland, CA, 94608
> 
> Cheers and I posted a similar query in your other post for the larger PID


It depends on what the Post Office are charging at the time, but right now it's an extra £15 for USA / Australia and most far-flung places.... so £94+£15 = £109

PM me when your post count has improved slightly ;-)


----------



## MrShades

catpuccino said:


> Really excellent kit, bought through eBay - took a couple of hours to install and now just tweaking the PID config.
> 
> Anyone find their steam valve is not performing particularly well after installing the PID? Performs as normal (some drips/bleps) while heating up but when bringing it up to temperature for steaming and when I close the valve after steaming it really just streams steam. Brand new valve so can pretty much rule wear out.


Can you explain what you mean a little further? When you close the steam valve after steaming, the steam wand continues to pour steam even though the valve is supposed to be closed?

If so, it can only really be scale or other particles stuck in the valve seat of the steam valve (which are notoriously poor at sealing properly).


----------



## mikestatic

Just wanted to report in with my Mrshades PID. Install wasn't too bad, it took me a solid day to get it installed. Instructions are great, easy to read but definitely read them before the install, I got brave and skimmed through it initially and had to backtrack a few times.

I ran into a problem with the thermal fuse blowing and Adrian graciously helped me troubleshoot over PM on a Saturday to get my machine running. Couldn't ask for better support.

Still working out the PID settings but my first shot was good, I need to work on my tamping and distribution but it's great seeing the brew temperature while pulling a shot. No more temp surfing! Tested the steam, it works great but can't figure out how to set it up on Fahrenheit? I was getting crazy temps on the pid when I switched to Fahrenheit and the steam SSR wouldn't turn on. Very happy so far though, thanks again to Adrian for a well thought out kit!


----------



## Pants001

Nice setup, ive got the same. Was thinking of putting the PID on the right as to not hinder the Sette but looks like theres enough room


----------



## mikestatic

Pants001 said:


> Nice setup, ive got the same. Was thinking of putting the PID on the right as to not hinder the Sette but looks like theres enough room


Clears it good on the left if you put it high enough, looks like you are better on space then I am though lol. Really happy with this setup now with the pid!


----------



## Senese

Hi MrShades,

I own a Gaggia Classic RI9303/01 - 23/2011, and I want to buy the PID for this machine.

I think the PID 1/32DIN is the right choice?

Since I have newly registered in the forum, you could contact me please. If you need an email, I could post it here too. What is the total cost to Germany?

Best regards Sanese


----------



## Egglet

Count me in! Excited to take my gaggia to the next level!

I've PM-ed you already @MrShades

Egglet


----------



## MrShades

Senese said:


> Hi MrShades,
> 
> I own a Gaggia Classic RI9303/01 - 23/2011, and I want to buy the PID for this machine.
> 
> I think the PID 1/32DIN is the right choice?
> 
> Since I have newly registered in the forum, you could contact me please. If you need an email, I could post it here too. What is the total cost to Germany?
> 
> Best regards Sanese


When you can send me a PM, please do so...


----------



## Pants001

Thank you good sir,

Looking forward to this

Edit: Giddyup, installed today and now in the club.

Excellent kit


----------



## Pants001

After using the PID for a week now i can make the comment that if your thinking of PID'ing your machine, it should be a no brainer.

MrShades has done all the hard work for you in sourcing the correct parts, making up the correct cables and providing a truly awesome manual.

Yes, it may take a few hours to install, but its actually an enjoyable time and very satisfying once you've finished the work and can now see what the machines up to.

I tried temp surfing for a while (Waiting until machine warmed up then pulling a shot as soon as the ready light came on) but this is way more consistent.

I find that i turn the machine on around 10 mins before more making a coffee......you can see the temp rise fairly rapidly to the set temp. With the machine being from cold, it seems to overshoot and waiver around by 2 or 3 degreess.

Once warmed up, its almost dead on the set temp (within 0.1 degrees) so very accurate.

Very happy with this setup now and cant thank MrShades enough.


----------



## zombie

As i've got to replace my boiler gasket, I assume this would be a good time to fit one of these too?


----------



## ashcroc

zombie said:


> As i've got to replace my boiler gasket, I assume this would be a good time to fit one of these too?


It certainly wouldn't be a bad time as it's easier to fit the PT100 sensor with the boiler out of the machine.


----------



## Varg86

Hello,

I'd like to Upgrade my Gaggia Paros with this pid kit.

Is it still available?

Regards


----------



## Pants001

Been using this PID for a couple months now. One thing ive noticed is the amount of time between shots for the machine to stabilise again.

Ill pull one shot for the wife, then i'll leave the machine for 5 to 10 mins to do its thing before doing my shot

(machine getting back up to the set temp and stabilise)

Really goes to show that without the PID and display you don't know what coffee you would get.

Loving the consistency.


----------



## timmy

Hi, I installed my PID yesterday. Just wanted to thank @MrShades for doing such an excellent job of creating the kit and the instructions. The quality of the kit and instructions are first class, installation took several hours but worked first time. Everything about the kit and instructions is about as professional and polished as your going to get.

Only had a few brews, the first with the stock PID settings was excellent. Also the steam seemed better, with a more stable flow and less water, more steamey !


----------



## Gavin

Just wanted to give a shout out to @MrShadesfor the cracking PID kit. Great fun and seriously improves consistency.

Also a shout to @gk36. I used his butt hinge idea. Bloody brilliant.


----------



## Pants001

Gavin said:


> Just wanted to give a shout out to @MrShadesfor the cracking PID kit.


 The Classic is such a sweet setup with the PID, Cant imagine going back to not having one.


----------



## Pablo El Beano

Save one for me Adrian. I'll PM you soon mate... ?


----------



## ashcroc

Pablo El Beano said:


> Save one for me Adrian. I'll PM you soon mate...


Good luck. Not sure he's got it sorted for the 2019 version yet.


----------



## Pablo El Beano

ashcroc said:


> Pablo El Beano said:
> 
> 
> 
> Save one for me Adrian. I'll PM you soon mate...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good luck. Not sure he's got it sorted for the 2019 version yet.
Click to expand...

 He has apparently! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/123785548900?ViewItem=&item=123785548900

Thought id do the right thing though and deal direct, hence joining CFUK...


----------



## ashcroc

Pablo El Beano said:


> He has apparently! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/123785548900?ViewItem=&item=123785548900
> Thought id do the right thing though and deal direct, hence joining CFUK...


He kept that quiet! Wonder if he sorted out an override for the automatic standby mode too.


----------



## Pablo El Beano

ashcroc said:


> Pablo El Beano said:
> 
> 
> 
> He has apparently! https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/123785548900?ViewItem=&item=123785548900
> Thought id do the right thing though and deal direct, hence joining CFUK...
> 
> 
> 
> He kept that quiet! Wonder if he sorted out an override for the automatic standby mode too.
Click to expand...

 Now that would probably be against the new EU regs wouldn't it? ? I don't think that regulation applies here in Australia. I had my GC shipped in from the UK as we won't get the new one here until next year. Would be great to override it though so I could put it on a plug timer to wake up to in the morning...


----------



## ashcroc

Pablo El Beano said:


> Now that would probably be against the new EU regs wouldn't it?  I don't think that regulation applies here in Australia. I had my GC shipped in from the UK as we won't get the new one here until next year. Would be great to override it though so I could put it on a plug timer to wake up to in the morning...


There's nothing in the regs to say the user can't switch the power saving mode off. Unfortunately Gaggia never gave the option though so it'll take some electrickery inside the machine to do. IIrc, someone managed it on a 2015 machine by swapping a couple of switches over which may be an option depending how it's been implemented.


----------



## MrShades

Yes - I've had a 2018+ version for a while - not explicitly mentioned on here by available at the same price.

Wiring is slightly different but otherwise it's very similar.

I've not managed to find a quick and easy way to bypass the 20min timer - which is a pain. If I were Gaggia I'd implement the timer in such a way that it satisfies the EU regulations but was very simple to bypass if an end-user chose to do so after purchase. Alas, it doesn't seem that simple - at least with some brief investigation.


----------



## dorren

PM sent.

Time to get my Classic up and running after years of rest


----------



## Kamtsa

Sorry to add thread noise - trying to get @MrShades attention.
[I had PM'd you a few days ago, but unsure if you got that, or if I got greyed for violating forum rules].


----------



## CLW62

Pretty keen on getting a MrShades PID kit here in Nelson NZ can i get a price please ?

Thanks Craig


----------



## RobbieTheTruth

I bought one of these and sent it directly to an ebay seller to install on a refurb.

It's a brilliant piece of kit and I'm delighted with it. I'm completely new to espresso so it's really helped me understand the machine and how the boiler switches from coffee to steam temperature.

Out of interest, what's the expected lifespan for something like this?


----------



## MrShades

RobbieTheTruth said:


> I bought one of these and sent it directly to an ebay seller to install on a refurb.
> It's a brilliant piece of kit and I'm delighted with it. I'm completely new to espresso so it's really helped me understand the machine and how the boiler switches from coffee to steam temperature.
> Out of interest, what's the expected lifespan for something like this?


It should last for years - just like any normal electronics they either fail early (after a few days/weeks) or after years. I don't get many early failures at all.... and whilst some may fail earlier due to the heat inside the machine, though typically everything works for quite a long time (obviously very difficult to be specific). The part that is most prone to failure is the steam SSR as it switches and is switched by "dirty" mains AC - but even failure of these (a) isn't common, and (b) is easily and cheaply rectified.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Agentb

MrShades said:


> ...The part that is most prone to failure is the steam SSR as it switches and is switched by "dirty" mains AC - but even failure of these (a) isn't common, and (b) is easily and cheaply rectified.


 When the SSRs fail - do they normally fail to close (stay on), or do they fail to close (stay off) - or something else?


----------



## MrShades

Agentb said:


> When the SSRs fail - do they normally fail to close (stay on), or do they fail to close (stay off) - or something else?


Usually fail open - so typically your steam function stops working

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pablo El Beano

Can anyone help with PID setting on @MrShades PID for the new GC. All is well, except it does seem to hover quite a bit around set temp. Only a 2-4º fluctuation, but enough for me to be waiting around for the swing to get where I need it, especially after the first shot. From what i've read on shades very detailed instructions:

*P - lowering the P value typically makes recovery between shots quicker, but too
low a value can also cause temperature fluctuation around the set point.
I - Changing the I value may improve recovery time and stability, but too big a
value will slow recovery time and too small a value may introduce fluctuation.
D - Typically the "D" value is set to a quarter of the I value (as in the Sets above).*

I've ran the Autotune a few times and at the moment its at this:

*SouF - 0.2*

*P - 05.2*

*I - 0111*

*D - 027*

What would you suggest to try and tame the temp swing ?

Muchos Thankos. Pablo...


----------



## Pants001

Pablo El Beano said:


> What would you suggest to try and tame the temp swing ?


 Ill check later what mine are, my temp is rock solid at 94.3 degrees


----------



## Pablo El Beano

Pants001 said:


> Ill check later what mine are, my temp is rock solid at 94.3 degrees


 Mine seems to always overshoot on heat up and take its time getting back to where it should be.


----------



## MrShades

It probably will do - that's the best way to have it set, so it reheats relatively quickly both during and between shots.

When the Classic is cold, the poor elements are heating up MUCH more than just the water in the boiler. Once it's all up to temp (about 20mins) it should be quite stable.

If you had it set so that it didn't overshoot from cold then you'd be pretty disappointed in the recovery time between shots.

The PID isn't magic - it has one set of parameters and it's a compromise between cold startup, temp stability when idle and temp recovery between shots. There's no single set of paratmeters that are perfect for all 3 scenarios - what's good for one is usually detrimental to another.

Don't judge it on cold startup stability - leave it for 20mins once warm and see what it's like.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MrShades

.... and yes, that's one of the main problems with the turn-off timer on the post 2015 models! Why turn a machine off just when it's warmed up. Madness.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pablo El Beano

MrShades said:


> .... and yes, that's one of the main problems with the turn-off timer on the post 2015 models! Why turn a machine off just when it's warmed up. Madness.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 What is the component that sets the time in the new GC? Is it possible to adjust or bypass?


----------



## MrShades

Pablo El Beano said:


> What is the component that sets the time in the new GC? Is it possible to adjust or bypass?


Would be nice wouldn't it?

Unfortunately they route a huge number of key cables via a sealed black box that resides near the pump - and there's something in there controlling the timer.

As I've said before, if I were Gaggia I'd engineer it so that the timer worked as designed - but could be very easily bypassed if the end user wanted to do so (conscious of warranty compromise etc).

One day I'll rip it all apart and find a way to do it - but that day is some way off!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Pants001

Pablo El Beano said:


> What would you suggest to try and tame the temp swing ?


 Here are my settings, Temp swing after warm up period is minimal, I'm set to 94.2 currently and only see it waiver to 94.1 or 94.3

P: 4.8

I: 102

D: 25

(these are from Auto-Tune)


----------



## Pablo El Beano

Pants001 said:


> Here are my settings, Temp swing after warm up period is minimal, I'm set to 94.2 currently and only see it waiver to 94.1 or 94.3
> 
> P: 4.8
> 
> I: 102
> 
> ? 25
> 
> (these are from Auto-Tune)


 Im starting to recognise the pattern more now. On start up, I'll leave it for 15-20 mins. Flush a bit out to help with warming up the group. then it settles pretty quick to my set temp. After the first pull it will obviously drop, then climb back up within a minute or two, but then overshoot by about 5 or 6º then take quite a while to creep back down. 5 or more minutes.

How does yours roll after pulling your shot?

I might give these settings a bash and see how it goes tomoz.


----------



## Pants001

Pablo El Beano said:


> How does yours roll after pulling your shot? ﻿


 Your spot on, youll get some over shoot when cold by 5 or 6 degrees. After 15 or so mins you should be very stable. Recovery is prob 5 mins to dead stable again.

Something like that.

btw, i dont flush any water pre-shot, youll open yourself up to more jumping around with cold water coming in.


----------



## Robbie

@MrShades I'm planning on knocking one of these together myself using an arduino, I have plenty experience setting up PID loops with microcontrollers but I've never used an SSR as the output before. I wonder if you could give me a few bits of info to help me write the loop:

What is the switchable frequency of the SSR? I understand that it can only be switched at zero crossing so max 100Hz - what do you see in practice?

Where do you mount the temp probe?

Is there a danger wioth a large overshoot - i guess its safe to go over 100, but by how much?

Any advice you can offer is appreciated!

Cheers


----------



## MrShades

Robbie said:


> @MrShades I'm planning on knocking one of these together myself using an arduino, I have plenty experience setting up PID loops with microcontrollers but I've never used an SSR as the output before. I wonder if you could give me a few bits of info to help me write the loop:
> 
> What is the switchable frequency of the SSR? I understand that it can only be switched at zero crossing so max 100Hz - what do you see in practice?
> 
> Where do you mount the temp probe?
> 
> Is there a danger wioth a large overshoot - i guess its safe to go over 100, but by how much?
> 
> Any advice you can offer is appreciated!
> 
> Cheers


 I can give you some small amounts of assistance...

SSR switching frequency when used with a PID is typically no more than 2Hz. No idea why you'd want to go much higher... though using PWM control from the Arduino ISN'T the way to do it!

Temp probe replaces the standard brew thermostat

Large oveshoot - no issue at all.... unless you're overshooting by 80+c, as the thermal fuse will then blow


----------



## Robbie

MrShades said:


> I can give you some small amounts of assistance...
> 
> SSR switching frequency when used with a PID is typically no more than 2Hz. No idea why you'd want to go much higher... though using PWM control from the Arduino ISN'T the way to do it!
> 
> Temp probe replaces the standard brew thermostat
> 
> Large oveshoot - no issue at all.... unless you're overshooting by 80+c, as the thermal fuse will then blow


 Yep, i was thinking PWM doesnt marry well with mains frequency! But 2Hz is plenty fast since i suppose its quite a muted response from the system. I'll play with a cycle time in the range of 2-4s at first and see how I get on!

That makes sense...so the SSR will replace it in the circuit and the temp probe replaces it physically...poor little guy ?

Ok fantastic, I dont see 80c coming up as ill put in an override, such as if temp>120 kill the power no matter what!

How big is the disparity between whats measured at the probe and the temp of the water in the group? is it 94 im aiming for in the group? because i note the brew thermostat switches at 107

Thanks for your help! It's appreciated  I'm also messing around with having the cup on some scales, feeding the arduino the dose mass and having it control the pump to achieve a set brew ratio as well. and perhaps even 'dim' the pump to ~1 or 2 bar to pre infuse before the shot...so many possibilities...


----------



## MrShades

Robbie said:


> Yep, i was thinking PWM doesnt marry well with mains frequency! But 2Hz is plenty fast since i suppose its quite a muted response from the system. I'll play with a cycle time in the range of 2-4s at first and see how I get on!
> 
> That makes sense...so the SSR will replace it in the circuit and the temp probe replaces it physically...poor little guy ?
> 
> Ok fantastic, I dont see 80c coming up as ill put in an override, such as if temp>120 kill the power no matter what!
> 
> How big is the disparity between whats measured at the probe and the temp of the water in the group? is it 94 im aiming for in the group? because i note the brew thermostat switches at 107
> 
> Thanks for your help! It's appreciated  I'm also messing around with having the cup on some scales, feeding the arduino the dose mass and having it control the pump to achieve a set brew ratio as well. and perhaps even 'dim' the pump to ~1 or 2 bar to pre infuse before the shot...so many possibilities...


 Disparity - well, you've almost answered your own question: 107-94=? it's that sort of order.... however, when PID controlled (more tightly) and in a properly warmed up machine, I think it's more like -8c or -10c, than the -13c that the thermostat would indicate.

I've also got a cupboard full of Arduino gear, with Pt100 sensors hooked up and running PID code - it's great fun (though my wife thought I was crazy a few months ago, when I got very excited because I had an OLED display showing the sensor temp and an LED going on/off simulating the SSR output)! Actually, one of my long term aims is to do something with an Arduino and 3 x SSRs - one for elements, one for pump and one for solenoid valve, and with those three you could do anything/everything - endless possibilities!

Good luck!

Meanwhile for mere mortals - there's my much simpler PID kit ?


----------



## Robbie

Okay doke ill start with 10c and go from there. At least some consistancy will be better and i can knock it up if its too slow 

Haha - fantastic! it is fun once your imagination gets going. Can i suggest (if you use web-enabled boards such as the wemos D1) that you check out 'Blynk', it is a dead easy (and free) way to have your projects hooked up to the web with nice indications and controls on a customisable panel on your phone! (A slight tangent but here is an example I made to control/ monitor my chameleon enclosure).



MrShades said:


> Meanwhile for mere mortals - there's my much simpler PID kit ?


 It's a very neat solution and a nice niche you found yourself...good job!

Thanks again for your help


----------



## CLW62

Just finished my PID install c/o MrShades, fantastic bit of kit, easy to read instructions ..went like clock work..
Thank you MrShades

Cheers Craig in NZ


----------



## MrShades

CLW62 said:


> Just finished my PID install c/o MrShades, fantastic bit of kit, easy to read instructions ..went like clock work..
> Thank you MrShades
> Cheers Craig in NZ


Great stuff - well done Craig, nice work!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 2cups

Another happy customer! The kit is excellent, with all required materials provided and excellent instructions. The aforementioned advice to print and read beforehand is reccomended!

I fitted the temperature probe with the boiler in situ, the brave/lazy choice, but not too challenging.

Had a very minor issue with one of the wires, but MrShades resolved the issue immediately.

I've gone with the butt hinge install too, as my setup is a little cramped. I used the adhesive strip provided as a pad on the bottom of the pid enclosure. Think it looks pretty pro, even though I say so myself ?

As for the coffee in the cup, I noticed a immediate improvement. Glad I didn't hold off on doing this.


----------



## MartinJ

Thanks to MrShades for his excellent PID kit. Installing it was straightforward thanks to his excellent instructions.

I've fixed the PID box to the back of the machine to keep it looking as normal without any odd protuberance. After all, I don't need to track the temperature the whole time.

But the temperature is clearly visible when needed.

Another satisfied customer. ?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

MartinJ, that's a neat idea and I'm thinking that it will pass the wife test! On the basis it her machine of 10 years (which I bought for her when we were dating as a demonstration of my affection - ironically it was me who brought it into use circa 12 months ago), I cannot start modding it without her approval! Our machine similarly sits under a kitchen cupboard (next to the Sage grinder) - I assume you have a reflective surface on the underside of the kitchen cupboard?


----------



## rhysduk

Hi @MrShades,

Am i right in thinking that your PID kit doesn't include a shot time / pre soak feature?

Also, how much would delivery be to the UK?

Thanks
Rhys


----------



## MrShades

rhysduk said:


> Hi @MrShades,
> Am i right in thinking that your PID kit doesn't include a shot time / pre soak feature?
> Also, how much would delivery be to the UK?
> Thanks
> Rhys


There is only one Gaggia kit that I know of that includes a shot timer and preinfusion as options...

The shot timer is what it is - as good as any watch - but no, my PID doesn't include any shot timer functionality

The preinfusion function is identical to flicking the brew switch off, waiting a few seconds and then flicking it on again - it's that basic. In my opinion a dimmer switch on the pump to provide a low pressure and variable preinfusion, without disengaging and engaging the solenoid valve, is a MUCH better preinfusion function/method. So yes, you're also correct in that my PID doesn't include any preinfusion function - but IMHO it's largely worthless (and if you want it then just flick the switch off/on - or do it properly with a dimmer switch / pressure gauge mod.... which does much much more!

Price of the kit is in the thread title - which includes shipped to the UK.

As always, contact me via PM on here if you'd like to know more or would like to order one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rhysduk

Brill thanks - will be in touch for a kit. Just need to source a pressure gauge for my (non original) portafilter!


----------



## MartinJ

Paper Lawyer said:


> MartinJ, that's a neat idea and I'm thinking that it will pass the wife test! On the basis it her machine of 10 years (which I bought for her when we were dating as a demonstration of my affection - ironically it was me who brought it into use circa 12 months ago), I cannot start modding it without her approval! Our machine similarly sits under a kitchen cupboard (next to the Sage grinder) - I assume you have a reflective surface on the underside of the kitchen cupboard?


 Yes, a strategically placed mirror - £6 from Boots. It works very well.


----------



## catpuccino

MartinJ said:


> Yes, a strategically placed mirror - £6 from Boots. It works very well.
> 
> View attachment 31724


 Love it.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Thanks for posting the clever solution - the underside of our kitchen cabinet is neither as clean or as uncluttered (fluorescent light underneath) but that is definitely a possible approach.


----------



## MartinJ

I'm glad you like it. I know I'm in danger of collecting the nerdish idea of the week award, but I like the way the double reflection is the right way round and the red 93.0 magically appears between the cups.


----------



## hazzeruk

Hey @MrShades, ive had this pid for a while however im currently having some issues with it and not sure where to start, when i first turn on the machine it overshoots to 98 degrees basically boiling, this means i have to flush it after a while to get rid of the steam and wait for the temp to stabilise. and the other issue is after pulling a shot and steaming then cooling down to 93, it heats up to 93 and then keeps creeping up by 0.1 degrees a few seconds. Any idea how to fix these issues. TIA harry  (USING A CLASSIC PRO 2019)


----------



## MrShades

hazzeruk said:


> Hey @MrShades, ive had this pid for a while however im currently having some issues with it and not sure where to start, when i first turn on the machine it overshoots to 98 degrees basically boiling, this means i have to flush it after a while to get rid of the steam and wait for the temp to stabilise. and the other issue is after pulling a shot and steaming then cooling down to 93, it heats up to 93 and then keeps creeping up by 0.1 degrees a few seconds. Any idea how to fix these issues. TIA harry  (USING A CLASSIC PRO 2019)


I'm not too sure what you're saying - but I'll make a few assumptions...

The machine will always overshoot in initial warm-up, if you're using PID parameters that will be good for nornal use (once it's warmed up)... so overshooting to 98 isn't an issue if it's within the first few minutes of turning it on. You don't want to be using ANY Classic within 2 or 3 minutes of first powering it on as half the machine will be boiling hot and half of it will be freezing cold.

You should be leaving a Classic for about 15mins initially, for it to properly heat up and stabilise all of the metal and the water at your set temperature (93c or whatever).

If it's not stabilising to 93 after 15mins then let me know.

Regarding the 0.1c - I'm not sure what you're experiencing, but if it's just changing from 93.0'to 93.1 or 93.2 when idle then that's also fine.

If it's going from 93.0 to 93.1. .2, .3, .4,.5,.6,.7,.8 then that's not what should typically happen - it should be stable when idle to within a few tenths of a degree.

If you have any doubts concerning the stability then use one of the sets of P, I and D values that I provide in the manual - all of them should be pretty stable when idle.

Hope this helps - let me know or drop me a PM if you want more help

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hazzeruk

MrShades said:


> I'm not too sure what you're saying - but I'll make a few assumptions...
> 
> The machine will always overshoot in initial warm-up, if you're using PID parameters that will be good for nornal use (once it's warmed up)... so overshooting to 98 isn't an issue if it's within the first few minutes of turning it on. You don't want to be using ANY Classic within 2 or 3 minutes of first powering it on as half the machine will be boiling hot and half of it will be freezing cold.
> 
> You should be leaving a Classic for about 15mins initially, for it to properly heat up and stabilise all of the metal and the water at your set temperature (93c or whatever).
> 
> If it's not stabilising to 93 after 15mins then let me know.
> 
> Regarding the 0.1c - I'm not sure what you're experiencing, but if it's just changing from 93.0'to 93.1 or 93.2 when idle then that's also fine.
> 
> If it's going from 93.0 to 93.1. .2, .3, .4,.5,.6,.7,.8 then that's not what should typically happen - it should be stable when idle to within a few tenths of a degree.
> 
> If you have any doubts concerning the stability then use one of the sets of P, I and D values that I provide in the manual - all of them should be pretty stable when idle.
> 
> Hope this helps - let me know or drop me a PM if you want more help
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 it goes 93.0 .1 .2. .3. .4 .5 up to like 95 and back down, also the offest of -8 is correct for the gaggia classic pro


----------



## MrShades

hazzeruk said:


> it goes 93.0 .1 .2. .3. .4 .5 up to like 95 and back down, also the offest of -8 is correct for the gaggia classic pro


What P, I and D values are you using?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrHamster

Hi all,

Just wondering how you guys managed to attach the 1/32 DIN smaller model to the side of the gaggia? If its a sticky pad, doesn't the adhesive come apart with the heat?


----------



## MrShades

MrHamster said:


> Hi all,
> Just wondering how you guys managed to attach the 1/32 DIN smaller model to the side of the gaggia? If its a sticky pad, doesn't the adhesive come apart with the heat?


It's sticky pads in the kit.... far from them coming off, after the adhesive has had some time to stick it's far from easy to remove the case (though possible, with the aid of a flat bladed screw driver or similar)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Inspector

I used two rectangular neodymium magnets on mine. You can either use toffee tape or a drop or two super glue to stick magnets to the case.


----------



## MrShades

Inspector said:


> I used two rectangular neodymium magnets on mine. You can either use toffee tape or a drop or two super glue to stick magnets to the case.


Just test your Classic case first - some are magnetic steel and some aren't. Don't just assume that magnets will stick to your stainless steel case without testing first.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrHamster

My Gaggia Classic (probably over 10 years old) vibrates so much when extracting that I think that needs solving first , before mounting with adhesive. Probably the pump is rattling against the case.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Having adjusted the OPV, installed the Rancilio Silvia steam wand and acquired a bottomless portafilter and ice hockey puck to tamp more consistently; a PID controller is the outstanding mod for my Gaggia Classic. PM sent


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## nvommeren

Just signed up to the forums after reading about this PID kit and testing water temp at the group head of my classic. Turns out water temp is way low on my now 3.5 year old (North American market) Gaggia. That probably explains why I'm getting significantly better espresso out of a Silvia I just spent 3 hours cleaning.

Also - How many posts do I need before I'll be able to send a PM?


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## Gavin

nvommeren said:


> Just signed up to the forums after reading about this PID kit and testing water temp at the group head of my classic. Turns out water temp is way low on my now 3.5 year old (North American market) Gaggia. That probably explains why I'm getting significantly better espresso out of a Silvia I just spent 3 hours cleaning.
> 
> Also - How many posts do I need before I'll be able to send a PM?


 10 I think.


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## ashcroc

Gavin said:


> 10 I think.


Pretty sure it's 5 the same as access to the for sale section.


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## Paper Lawyer

Last night I fitted MrShades' PID kit - superb instructions and I even dug out my labelling machine to label up the cables as I went (as well as a few additional cable ties to neaten the cable runs within the coffee machine). It took a few hours but I was taking my time to not make any mistakes (other than ignoring the instruction to run each cable through the mounting box grommet - I blame the late hour of my attempt!). The initial temp overrun (post PID config) freaked me out for a few seconds before I quickly switched it off and decided to go to bed (and I dreamt of possible problems) but it quickly stabilised when I fired it up again this morning (reminding myself that an initial overrun was likely) and I have run the auto tune function this morning.
Biggest (yet minor) issue is my wife's annoyance that the box is not in matching stainless steel (!) and so I suspect a rear mount with the ability to read the display on the side may be implemented (she wasn't sold on the ingenious mirror set up).

Thanks, Adrian!


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## Pants001

Paper Lawyer said:


> ﻿The initial temp o﻿verrun (post PID config) frea﻿ked me out fo﻿r a few seconds be﻿fore I quickly s﻿witched it of﻿﻿f﻿﻿


 yeah from memory this happened to me, maybe its prior to PID auto tune that the values are way off?


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## Paper Lawyer

Perhaps - from memory it peaked somewhere between 110 and 117 degrees C briefly, before dropping back down and stabilising at 93 degrees C. I will check what the initial peak is later this evening, post auto tune.


----------



## ashcroc

You can either have the PID running so the temp is accurate on warm up or once it's up to temp. So long as the overshoot on warm up doesn't blow the thermal fuse (& 117 is well below the steam temp so you're safe from that), it's nothing to worry about.


----------



## Paper Lawyer

ashcroc said:


> You can either have the PID running so the temp is accurate on warm up or once it's up to temp. So long as the overshoot on warm up doesn't blow the thermal fuse (& 117 is well below the steam temp so you're safe from that), it's nothing to worry about.


 That was my (nervous) thinking as I fired up the machine this morning, finger hovering to shutdown the machine if the temp was heading towards 150 degrees


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## ajohn

If some one wants to understand what the numbers do this may be of interest.










And this page explains what each term actually does fairly clearly.

https://www.elprocus.com/the-working-of-a-pid-controller/

Problem is all affect each other to some extent and then there is the response of the system it's controlling. The catch with a heater is that it's still hot when it's turned off so continues to provide heat. It has to be hotter than what it's trying to heat. How much in terms of temperature rise depends on the volume of the boiler and the mass and temperature difference of the element. The end result has to be some sort of compromise when looked at some level of accuracy.

John

-


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## MrShades

... and it's even further complicated by the fact that when starting up and idle it's a closed system - but when pulling a shot it's a dynamic system with cold water being pumped into the hot boiler, and hot water being pumped out.

Unfortunately finding a set of P, I and D values that work perfectly in all cases is essentially impossible - we just have to go with the best (for either static or dynamic or a compromise system)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ajohn

It's an interesting subject. I've never had to use it but have forced system responses to try and achieve critical damping. I had a nose around on the web to see if there was any better information available. Seems to be but I recollect talking to engineers a long time ago when software for this sort of thing was very novel. Often I'd here D finishing up as 0 and difficulty using it and essentially giving up. Maybe the maths then was different or maybe understanding was just lacking.

 If I ever have a go and I might some day I'll try the animated gif approach. It makes sense as P sets the bulk of the response time, I averages it around the set point and D stabilises it. It fundamentally can't be dead accurate. That may improve if the response time is reduced but with an espresso machine people wont want to wait for ever for it to heat up.

John

-


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## DavecUK

Missy said:


> It looks like ET...


 really?


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## Michael87

This looks really great and I love the hinge install. Just waiting for a few spare days to appear to give me time for this.

But is there a (freely available) list of tools needed to do the install? As I have almost no tools and may need to budget for that too.


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## MrShades

Michael87 said:


> This looks really great and I love the hinge install. Just waiting for a few spare days to appear to give me time for this.
> 
> But is there a (freely available) list of tools needed to do the install? As I have almost no tools and may need to budget for that too.


You only need really basic tools to fit the kit - from the manual:










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Michael87

Thank you, I do have most of this stuff already. I will be sending a PM in hopefully the not too distant future!


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## Pants001

To be honest, the classic should come standard with a PID.

Mr Shades Kit is the next best thing


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## ashcroc

Pants001 said:


> To be honest, the classic should come standard with a PID.
> 
> Mr Shades Kit is the next best thing


Totally agree. Especially when they're now calling it a pro version! Even a non adjustable one like the DTP has would be a huge upgrade on the mechanical stats.


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## Paper Lawyer

I love the PID and I don't think I could go back to my Gaggia's unmodified form. My brewing has become much more consistent.


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## ssaulsbu

Mr Shades, I just sent you an email. I have just finished connecting everything as stated in the manual on my 2018+ Gaggia Classic Pro but the PID display is not turning on. Need a little bit of help


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## MrShades

ssaulsbu said:


> Mr Shades, I just sent you an email. I have just finished connecting everything as stated in the manual on my 2018+ Gaggia Classic Pro but the PID display is not turning on. Need a little bit of help


Have replied to your email - will get you running ASAP I'm sure!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gee

Howdy everyone ?‍♂

I've had a Mr Shades PID kit fitted for several months now.

It's a game changer when it comes to getting the best out of your machine (and coffee). The Gaggia Classic is a great little machine and I've enjoyed some seriously good coffee using it!

Running the PID, I went with the factory settings and I've run a few autotune cycles and all I can say.............temperatures are always rock solid!

I always have the machine on for at least 20 minutes before use to ensure temperature stability. I use a wifi connected plug and the Tuya Smart app which puts Siri in full command of the Classic lol. It simply means I can have the Classic ready to go most of the time with no waiting about for preheating.

Just wanted to share how I went about mounting the PID for a clean look and maybe give someone additional ideas or options. I have also carried out some of the usual mods seen on the Classic with most of them functional and some cosmetic.

I remember reading Mr Shades saying, "A modded mod" which made me giggle and that's the line I have went down, modding his mod ?

I have a 3mm carbon fibre plate cut to fit the top of the Classic. My original steel piece was badly scored with a few dents in it. The machine is an Italian 2005 model.

I have the PID mounted to this plate with the wires entering the box through two holes drilled into the base of the box up through the CF plate. There is some heat proof matting on the underside of the plate and the PID box only ever gets luke warm at most. The PID box is finished using a Carbon fibre effect wrap with the two end plates powder coated black. It's a nice clean finish and you have full unhindered access to the filler spout lid. The PID is fitted to the CF plate using the double sided pads supplied and it is rock solid.

I've attached a few pics of my setup so hopefully that gives someone a few ideas with another approach to fitting the little belter ?


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## Pants001

Gee said:


> I use a wifi connected plug and the Tuya Smart app which puts Siri in full command of the Classic


 I need to do something like this. Start up the coffee machine before leaving bed.


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## Michael87

Looks great. Do you gave any instructions for the pressure valve mod?


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## Paper Lawyer

I also use a wifi plug - surely it is what they were designed for?


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## winz

Hi! I have a Gaggia Classic, bought in 2016. Likely a 9403/11 version. Is it worth the PID?

(understand that that pre-2015 ones are better for PID)


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## MrShades

winz said:


> Hi! I have a Gaggia Classic, bought in 2016. Likely a 9403/11 version. Is it worth the PID?
> 
> (understand that that pre-2015 ones are better for PID)


 Whilst it's probably worth fitting a PID to an RI9403/11 (2015-2018 model), due to the fact that Gaggia changed most of the internal components of the Classic for this model, my kit ISN'T suitable for this machine. Obviously you can still try and fit a PID to the machine yourself, but my kit, my pt100 sensor etc, are all designed to fit the older or more recent models (that use the same aluminium boiler/solenoid valve components).


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## Gee

Michael87 said:


> Looks great. Do you gave any instructions for the pressure valve mod?


 Thanks for the comment ?

If you mean setting the pressure to 9 bar at the OPV valve inside the machine, that's real easy. There is a load of posts on here covering that simple process. There's a couple of threads on the first page of this sub-forum (Gaggia Classic) covering it.

If it's fitting the gauge itself, that's is handy enough also. I bought the pressure gauge kit off ebay which has all the parts you need.

Tools wise, I used a 40mm sheet metal hole punch (pic attached) for cutting the gauge aperture. That's my biggest tip for cutting a clean hole . Use a hole punch (and some muscle ?). It is a quick and easy method and IMO a lot handier than using a hole saw.

You would also need a 14mm drill bit for the hole cutter bolt and a 12mm allen key for screwing in the hole punch.

Unfortunately I didn't document the install, sorry. I suppose I should have to help others out. Bad me ?

If I'm doing another one I will make a video and post it up.


----------



## Michael87

Thank you very much

I've just ordered the gauge and kit. Appeals because I can't get my head around plumbing connectors. Going back and forth on the punch as I can't find one cheaper than £18 whereas a hole saw plus arbor about £8.

Will try to document whenever I get around to fitting it. Boiler removal will be good practice for the eventual PID fitting.


----------



## winz

MrShades said:


> Whilst it's probably worth fitting a PID to an RI9403/11 (2015-2018 model), due to the fact that Gaggia changed most of the internal components of the Classic for this model, my kit ISN'T suitable for this machine. Obviously you can still try and fit a PID to the machine yourself, but my kit, my pt100 sensor etc, are all designed to fit the older or more recent models (that use the same aluminium boiler/solenoid valve components).


 ah damn! Just curious, how bad is the 2015-2018 model actually in terms of taste? haha worth to upgrade to the 2019?


----------



## MrShades

winz said:


> ah damn! Just curious, how bad is the 2015-2018 model actually in terms of taste? haha worth to upgrade to the 2019?


It'll make espresso... just arguably not as well as others Classics.

Well IMHO the latest 2018+ version is expensive and is crippled by the auto-shutoff timer still (as you have on the 2015), and hence an older (pre-2015) used Classic would be a better 'upgrade'.

The timer in both of the 2015 onwards versions is a major problem as it cuts in before the machine has properly warmed up!

So I would look for a great used machine from Pre-2015. Older Classics are great machines, and it's hard to damage or kill them (if properly looked after) and even if you find a non-working machine at a good price then they're often fixable easily or cheaply (I've bought "spares/repairs" Classics that just needed a damn good clean).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andori

Been debating getting the bits to try this myself prior to trying to do a big automation project with an Arduino, but being lazy I've decided I'll just got the kit.


----------



## Laney

Hello,

I received the PID-Kit 2 days ago. It was really easy to mount because of the perfect manual.

So far it works really great!

Thanks Adrian for your fast delivery! ?

Michael


----------



## FairRecycler

Hi,

I thought I'll share my version of mounting the PID. I know some of you has made similar positioning with a hinge. I thought I make it as simple as I can. So I just used the double sided tape provided in the kit to mount it to the lid, it is positioned slightly offset to ensure it sits stable on it's side to keep it open while I refill the water. The enclosure provides a miles better grip than the original holes (bearing in mind my sausage fingers  )

I also drilled a hole at the back for the wiring as I didn't like to use the went hole. There is no rubber wire protector due to I finished the hole super smooth with a needle file and I also fed in the spiral wire wrap in and locked in place inside with the cable tie.


----------



## svefn

Admittedly been hovering this forum for quite a while now and just took the plunge to sign up so I can get in touch with MrShades about purchasing a PID mod for my Gaggia Classic.

(pre-2015 1300W Made in Romania model RI8161/40).

I saw in a previous comment I need a minimum amount of posts to send a PM. Will MrShades be able to get in contact with me instead?

Would rather not buy via eBay due to the high sellers fees incurred.

Thanks!


----------



## MildredM

svefn said:


> Admittedly been hovering this forum for quite a while now and just took the plunge to sign up so I can get in touch with MrShades about purchasing a PID mod for my Gaggia Classic.
> 
> (pre-2015 1300W Made in Romania model RI8161/40).
> 
> I saw in a previous comment I need a minimum amount of posts to send a PM. Will MrShades be able to get in contact with me instead?
> 
> Would rather not buy via eBay due to the high sellers fees incurred.
> 
> Thanks!


 I don't think PMs work until you have a few posts under your belt. Share a few posts then you should be good to go!


----------



## svefn

MildredM said:


> I don't think PMs work until you have a few posts under your belt. Share a few posts then you should be good to go!


 Great! I'll be back soon!


----------



## svefn

Hi MrShades, sent you a PM ?


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## Andori

Got mine fitted last night ? Probably took me about 3 hours, taking it nice and steady following the well written comprehensive instructions. Only real hiccup was I dropped a nut for the SSR and lost it ?‍♀, but managed to find another one in the garage.

Not actually tried to make a drink with it yet as I was going to do the OPV mod first, but hit a snag. Fitted my gauge to a portafilter and turned on the pump, but it leaked like a sieve from the group seal ☔ so tonight's job is to replace that and probably do the shower block and screen at the same time. I probably should have done that while I had the boiler out (not pulled it apart to give it a good clean and replace all the seals yet, which is going to have to wait a few weeks, and really should have been done before fitting the PID). I did swap the steam wand as I had it off to remove the boiler.


----------



## ashcroc

Andori said:


> Got mine fitted last night  Probably took me about 3 hours, taking it nice and steady following the well written comprehensive instructions. Only real hiccup was I dropped a nut for the SSR and lost it , but managed to find another one in the garage.
> 
> Not actually tried to make a drink with it yet as I was going to do the OPV mod first, but hit a snag. Fitted my gauge to a portafilter and turned on the pump, but it leaked like a sieve from the group seal  so tonight's job is to replace that and probably do the shower block and screen at the same time. I probably should have done that while I had the boiler out (not pulled it apart to give it a good clean and replace all the seals yet, which is going to have to wait a few weeks, and really should have been done before fitting the PID). I did swap the steam wand as I had it off to remove the boiler.


Just checking you removed the basket from the portafilter when you did the pressure test.


----------



## Andori

ashcroc said:


> Just checking you removed the basket from the portafilter when you did the pressure test.


 ?‍♀ Rookie mistake. I thought I'd read to leave the basket in, but just checking the thread on adjusting the OPV I see I need to take it out. I also spotted a comment somewhere about pre-filling the portafilter with water to help damp out the vibrations on the needle. One good thing, I did take the top off the OPV (and then put it back) while I had the boiler on the bench.

I'll give a quick try before changing the seal first, but I will be changing it at some point. I hate to think what's under the shower screen and block. It's a 2008 machine and I don't think it was ever backflushed before I got it. I gave it a flush with puly caff the other week, and give it a quick flush once or twice each time I use it (and not had it leak then).


----------



## ashcroc

Andori said:


> Rookie mistake. I thought I'd read to leave the basket in, but just checking the thread on adjusting the OPV I see I need to take it out. I also spotted a comment somewhere about pre-filling the portafilter with water to help damp out the vibrations on the needle. One good thing, I did take the top off the OPV (and then put it back) while I had the boiler on the bench.
> 
> I'll give a quick try before changing the seal first, but I will be changing it at some point. I hate to think what's under the shower screen and block. It's a 2008 machine and I don't think it was ever backflushed before I got it. I gave it a flush with puly caff the other week, and give it a quick flush once or twice each time I use it (and not had it leak then).


Filling the portafilter with water isn't essential as the OPV will bleed the air out when it opens but it's quicker. If you leave the basket in, the water will escape between the basket & the portafilter where there's no seal.


----------



## Andori

ashcroc said:


> Filling the portafilter with water isn't essential as the OPV will bleed the air out when it opens but it's quicker. If you leave the basket in, the water will escape between the basket & the portafilter where there's no seal.


 Thanks for that, I hadn't thought of that being the leak path. Obvious when you know.


----------



## Tempest

Well, after the disaster that was rebuilding the machine last weekend can I just say fitting the PID was straight forward. The instructions are logical, clear and assume you don't know what you're doing, so it made perfect sense. Read it a time or two first and then read it step by step as you go and you'll be fine. It was quicker to fit having it so fresh in mind how the machine came apart but I don't think you have to have this knowledge first. I have hands small enough to do the sensor in situ but I didn't, as the instructions made me paranoid about harming the wiring in the case so I have to admit I took the boiler out. It isn't hard and just made sense to me.

I fit the PID with both brew and steam, fixed my steam wand, which started leaking at a joint this morning like mad - thankfully it was just the o ring between the silvia wand and the copper feed pipe had split and I had a spare - and did the OPV mod, in about three hours.

Just letting it all come up to temp before I think about maybe giving it a try at 9 bar. I don't normally drink coffee so late in the day but it kind of seems like it would be rude not to after all that! Next step run some auto tunes but I'll give it a go at the example values from the instructions first.

Thanks again @MrShades for the excellent service. It was first class all around.


----------



## MrHamster

A few questions:

-When and how often does one need to run the auto tuner? After changing the setpoint temp for example?

-Is it better to run the autotuner with the portafilter locked in place?

-The temp drops by 2C during the pour, then goes up again to the setpoint temp (95C), is this normal? ie is a 2C drop acceptable.

-After setting the offset to 8C as instructed in the manual, the actual difference between room temp (22C) and displayed temp (16C) was closer to 6C. Do I now set the offset to 6C?

Oh and big thumbs up to MrShades for his excellent PID kit  Highly recommended, coffee taste transformed


----------



## Pants001

-When and how often does one need to run the auto tuner? After changing the setpoint temp for example?

I did mine a few times to setup then have left it alone since, Changing by 1 or 2 degrees wont really change the behaviour so i wouldn't bother

-Is it better to run the autotuner with the portafilter locked in place?

Not sure that would make any difference, The PID is testing the power input versus changes to the boiler temp, portafilter comes after that point

-The temp drops by 2C during the pour, then goes up again to the setpoint temp (95C), is this normal? ie is a 2C drop acceptable.

Sounds ok, ive not taken too much notice of this

-After setting the offset to 8C as instructed in the manual, the actual difference between room temp (22C) and displayed temp (16C) was closer to 6C. Do I now set the offset to 6C?

Air temp may differ from metal boiler temp inside a sealed box. You would need to check the boiler not ambient. Having said that, you still need to play around with temp anyway depending on your beans. For example my normal beans im sitting on 94.3 and for a darker roast i drop it a little to 93.0. You'll need to experiment regardless.


----------



## Squidgyblack

Fitted my kit last night, took a little bit longer than expected, but I have to say the manual is absolutely foolproof and unbelievably comprehensive.

It took me a while to figure out why I couldn't dial in the PID settings. But then I slowed down and actually read the manual and realised that the exact steps I was looking for were in it.....

Biggest difference I've noticed so far after pulling a couple of shots is the steaming, it's much more consistent and the power doesn't die off almost immediately after adding in air and you start rolling.

Well worth it if anyone's contemplating it.


----------



## Mudlark13

Fantastic information available on this thread, thanks all - replaced the shower head holder and shower screen, the PID kit is definitely calling...


----------



## Buster

Silly question??

As a newbie with a new 2019 Classic how do I contact Mr Shades and order the PID kit?


----------



## ashcroc

Buster said:


> Silly question??
> As a newbie with a new 2019 Classic how do I contact Mr Shades and order the PID kit?


Tap on his name on one of his posts & send a PM ( may be an envelope icon).


----------



## Krasi

HI there!!!

I am from Bulgaria.How can I oreder the PID controller for my Gaggia Classic?What is the price and how can I pay?

Thank you so much!!!!!!!!


----------



## 9719

@MrShades


----------



## MrShades

Krasi said:


> HI there!!!
> 
> I am from Bulgaria.How can I oreder the PID controller for my Gaggia Classic?What is the price and how can I pay?
> 
> Thank you so much!!!!!!!!


 Have replied to your PM @Krasi - thanks @**********


----------



## Morningfuel

Had a thought - obviously the vibration pump has a fairly gradual pressure profile anyway, but is it possible to incorporate a PID and some form of crude preinfusion? Even if it was a mere 5 seconds or 10 seconds infuse, then proceed with the shot.

No idea how this could be accomplished, I suspect it would need a timer connected to the pump, one to cut the pump after a few seconds of water flow and one to restart it after a few more seconds...? But total noob. Just curious.


----------



## MrShades

Morningfuel said:


> Had a thought - obviously the vibration pump has a fairly gradual pressure profile anyway, but is it possible to incorporate a PID and some form of crude preinfusion? Even if it was a mere 5 seconds or 10 seconds infuse, then proceed with the shot.
> 
> No idea how this could be accomplished, I suspect it would need a timer connected to the pump, one to cut the pump after a few seconds of water flow and one to restart it after a few more seconds...? But total noob. Just curious.


 It's simple - you just flick the brew switch on, wait a second or two, flick it off again - and then wait for your preinfuse time - and then flick it back on again.

That's enough to emulate what the Auber preinfuse does anyway.


----------



## Morningfuel

MrShades said:


> It's simple - you just flick the brew switch on, wait a second or two, flick it off again - and then wait for your preinfuse time - and then flick it back on again.
> 
> That's enough to emulate what the Auber preinfuse does anyway.


 Awesome! I assumed that if I did it poorly the solenoid was suck all the water out but I suppose provided I don't let the pressure build much it'll be fine.

Thanks!


----------



## ashcroc

Morningfuel said:


> Awesome! I assumed that if I did it poorly the solenoid was suck all the water out but I suppose provided I don't let the pressure build much it'll be fine.
> 
> Thanks!


If you don't want to activate the solenoid, you'll need to fit a dimmer to the pump.


----------



## MrShades

ashcroc said:


> Morningfuel said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome! I assumed that if I did it poorly the solenoid was suck all the water out but I suppose provided I don't let the pressure build much it'll be fine.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> If you don't want to activate the solenoid, you'll need to fit a dimmer to the pump.
Click to expand...

 Indeed... Personally, I'd go with the "dimmer + pressure gauge" mod (dimmer is easy, pressure gauge is slightly trickier!) - but if all you want is simply preinfusion (like the Auber function) then flicking the brew switch off and on again does the same, and as pressure doesn't build then the fact that the solenoid engages/disengages shouldn't (in theory) make any or much difference.


----------



## Morningfuel

MrShades said:


> Indeed... Personally, I'd go with the "dimmer + pressure gauge" mod (dimmer is easy, pressure gauge is slightly trickier!) - but if all you want is simply preinfusion (like the Auber function) then flicking the brew switch off and on again does the same, and as pressure doesn't build then the fact that the solenoid engages/disengages shouldn't (in theory) make any or much difference.


 Dimmer looks easy - just an inline dial to control voltage to the pump by the looks of it?

Seems less worthwhile without a pressure gauge, but I live in a flat and can't imagine how I'd realistically drill out and clean up the mild steel case of a gaggia selecta deluxe! Something worth thinking about though. I could fit it for preinfusion only - dial it up for a few seconds to first drip, then whack back up to max (which should get the 9 bar from the opv) to pull the shot.

I'll be taking it apart at the weekend for a fix to the opv (hopefully...) and perhaps consider looking at fitting the dimmer. Was hoping to go for a PID first but would rather get the machine working before I try to fix the temperature!


----------



## Michael87

Can you elaborate how the dimmer would work once installed?

You switch the pump on, then turn up the inline dial, then switch the pump off?

Could the dial be mounted onto the body?

(Have sent a PM for the PID, now thinking of the next upgrade?).

Morningfuel, you can use a hole punch to make the hole in the gaggia without any drilling mess.


----------



## ashcroc

Michael87 said:


> Can you elaborate how the dimmer would work once installed? You switch the pump on, then turn up the inline dial, then switch the pump off?
> 
> Could the dial be mounted onto the body?
> 
> (Have sent a PM for the PID, now thinking of the next upgrade?).
> 
> Morningfuel, you can use a hole punch to make the hole in the gaggia without any drilling mess.


Basically you switch the machine on with the dimmer set low (2 bar maybe?) for pre-infusion then turn it up for the shot (possibly backing it off if you're attempting a psudo-lever profile.


----------



## Michael87

ashcroc said:


> Basically you switch the machine on with the dimmer set low (2 bar maybe?) for pre-infusion then turn it up for the shot (possibly backing it off if you're attempting a psudo-lever profile.


 Thanks that sounds quite simple. Had anyone tried mounting a lever or knob on the side to control it? Or are there any recommended kits for this?


----------



## TomHughes

Can this PID be used in the place of the gaggia thermostat? 
I have mangled my thermostat the a connection to the boiler is no longer possible, I.e the screw hole for the brew thermostat is unusable. Can I use this kit to attach and sense the boiler temp a different way?


----------



## catpuccino

TomHughes said:


> Can this PID be used in the place of the gaggia thermostat?
> I have mangled my thermostat the a connection to the boiler is no longer possible, I.e the screw hole for the brew thermostat is unusable. Can I use this kit to attach and sense the boiler temp a different way?


 No, the PID replaces the thermostat but uses the same connection points.


----------



## MrShades

TomHughes said:


> Can this PID be used in the place of the gaggia thermostat?
> I have mangled my thermostat the a connection to the boiler is no longer possible, I.e the screw hole for the brew thermostat is unusable. Can I use this kit to attach and sense the boiler temp a different way?


You can carefully tap the thermostat hole out to M5 (its M4 as standard) and I can provide an M5 sensor as a special order.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ashcroc

TomHughes said:


> Can this PID be used in the place of the gaggia thermostat?
> I have mangled my thermostat the a connection to the boiler is no longer possible, I.e the screw hole for the brew thermostat is unusable. Can I use this kit to attach and sense the boiler temp a different way?


The PT100 sensor replaces the brew stat on the side & mounts the same way. While it'd be possible to mount it where the steam stat is, I'm not sure how accurate it'd be.


----------



## TomHughes

MrShades said:


> You can carefully tap the thermostat hole out to M5 (its M4 as standard) and I can provide an M5 sensor as a special order.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I'm not sure that would be usable as it's quite a deep/wide hole! But it might depend on length of the bolt.

Do you know how it works? Could the sensor be stuck to the side of the boiler (not screwed in) and still sense the temperature? This seems to have worked for the gaggia sensor. 
i.e what is actually sensing the temp and where? Is it the screw in bit?


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## MrShades

Much like the standard thermostat, the sensor needs to be as firmly physically attached to the boiler as possible (and the screw obviously helps this hugely) - ideally at the level of the existing brew thermostat (as that's approximately the point / level at which the water is removed from the boiler to make espresso).

With the pt100, the actual sensing device is around a millimetre from the end of the screw thread. The working parts of the original thermostat are further away than that, but as it's all metallic and as the thermal conductivity is high so it doesn't matter too much.

The steam thermostat location is far from ideal for sensing the temperature of the brew water.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TomHughes

MrShades said:


> Much like the standard thermostat, the sensor needs to be as firmly physically attached to the boiler as possible (and the screw obviously helps this hugely) - ideally at the level of the existing brew thermostat (as that's approximately the point / level at which the water is removed from the boiler to make espresso).
> 
> With the pt100, the actual sensing device is around a millimetre from the end of the screw thread. The working parts of the original thermostat are further away than that, but as it's all metallic and as the thermal conductivity is high so it doesn't matter too much.
> 
> The steam thermostat location is far from ideal for sensing the temperature of the brew water.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Excellent thank you. 
I have purchased a tap set (although never done it before) so I will see how I get on and if I don't mangle it I'll be in touch


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## Michael87

Thank you again - received this yesterday and had it up and running 3 hours later. Instructions very clear although I had to pay close attention as there are lots of similar cables and some optional steps. I did it okay without removing the boiler, I don't think it's necessary and my hands are huge. The hardest part for me was mounting the SSRs as the nut is sunken and hard to hold still whilst screing the bolt and holding the SSR to the case. Thermal paste everywhere. But it was fun and very rewarding.

Pulled the first shots this morning and it's wonderful. Still having bean issues so taste not perfect (yet) but the workflow is so much more enjoyable as I don't have to wait and surf everything. Haven't mastered steaming yet. I previously had a 155 degC steam stat and got great steam pressure surfing which I'm not getting yet with the PID set to 136 degC, so I might just put the steam on 155 again.

Thanks MrShades for a great kit and very speedy response to help me.

Mike


----------



## Jason11

Michael87 said:


> Thank you again - received this yesterday and had it up and running 3 hours later. Instructions very clear although I had to pay close attention as there are lots of similar cables and some optional steps. I did it okay without removing the boiler, I don't think it's necessary and my hands are huge. The hardest part for me was mounting the SSRs as the nut is sunken and hard to hold still whilst screing the bolt and holding the SSR to the case. Thermal paste everywhere. But it was fun and very rewarding.
> Pulled the first shots this morning and it's wonderful. Still having bean issues so taste not perfect (yet) but the workflow is so much more enjoyable as I don't have to wait and surf everything. Haven't mastered steaming yet. I previously had a 155 degC steam stat and got great steam pressure surfing which I'm not getting yet with the PID set to 136 degC, so I might just put the steam on 155 again.
> Thanks MrShades for a great kit and very speedy response to help me.
> Mike


Hi Mike

I fitted my PID kit just over a week ago and also couldn't be happier.

With regards the milk steaming temperature the instructions say to be careful going higher than 150oC or you may blow the thermal fuse. It may be worth sending a quick message to Mr. Shades first 

I've found the steaming on mine to be greatly improved setting it at 137oC

Jason

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ashcroc

Michael87 said:


> Thank you again - received this yesterday and had it up and running 3 hours later. Instructions very clear although I had to pay close attention as there are lots of similar cables and some optional steps. I did it okay without removing the boiler, I don't think it's necessary and my hands are huge. The hardest part for me was mounting the SSRs as the nut is sunken and hard to hold still whilst screing the bolt and holding the SSR to the case. Thermal paste everywhere. But it was fun and very rewarding.
> Pulled the first shots this morning and it's wonderful. Still having bean issues so taste not perfect (yet) but the workflow is so much more enjoyable as I don't have to wait and surf everything. Haven't mastered steaming yet. I previously had a 155 degC steam stat and got great steam pressure surfing which I'm not getting yet with the PID set to 136 degC, so I might just put the steam on 155 again.
> Thanks MrShades for a great kit and very speedy response to help me.
> Mike


You should have the PID set with an 8° offset (so it shows the temp of the water at the group) so setting the steam to 147° will mimic a 155° stat.


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## MrShades

Well done@Michael87 - sounds like a success!

The trick to attaching the SSRs is to use a flat blade screwdriver on the nut - just ram it between the nut and SSR to prevent it rotating - and then use another Philips driver on the screw. Should be pretty easy if you do it that way.

Taking the steam to 150, 155 or 160 probably wont be an issue - but remember the 8c offset - so a 155c steam stat is best replicated by setting steam to 147c. Heading over 160 is dangerous - as the machine temp goes significantly beyond that when steaming - and you're getting close to the thermal fuse safety limit (which normally blows around 180-190c)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tempest

Michael87 said:


> Thank you again - received this yesterday and had it up and running 3 hours later. Instructions very clear although I had to pay close attention as there are lots of similar cables and some optional steps. I did it okay without removing the boiler, I don't think it's necessary and my hands are huge. The hardest part for me was mounting the SSRs as the nut is sunken and hard to hold still whilst screing the bolt and holding the SSR to the case. Thermal paste everywhere. But it was fun and very rewarding.
> 
> Pulled the first shots this morning and it's wonderful. Still having bean issues so taste not perfect (yet) but the workflow is so much more enjoyable as I don't have to wait and surf everything. Haven't mastered steaming yet. I previously had a 155 degC steam stat and got great steam pressure surfing which I'm not getting yet with the PID set to 136 degC, so I might just put the steam on 155 again.
> 
> Thanks MrShades for a great kit and very speedy response to help me.
> 
> Mike


 I set mine up as per the advice of Ashcroc just above in the thread - 8 degree ofset and steam set at 147. What I then find works best for my machine is bleed the water out of the arm around 115 on the PID and start steaming any time after the PID shows at least 120. It does enough milk for a fairly large latte for me then and still has loads of steam to purge the wand after. Before the PID it wouldn't always have had enough steam to finish the milk. Then I manually refill the boiler and run water through the wand til it comes out clear. Don't know if this works well for me over a quirk of my machine but as it works I'm not mad at it either way.


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## CoffeeGoGo

svefn said:


> Hi MrShades, sent you a PM ?


 Hi Svefn, did you manage to get @MrShades I think I was in the same boat with so few posts trying to pm?

Thanks


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## MrShades

CoffeeGoGo said:


> Hi Svefn, did you manage to get @MrShades I think I was in the same boat with so few posts trying to pm?
> 
> Thanks


 Have just PM'd you - sorry for the delay, was trying to take a bit of a break over the Christmas / New Year period ?


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## CoffeeGoGo

MrShades said:


> Have just PM'd you - sorry for the delay, was trying to take a bit of a break over the Christmas / New Year period ?


 Thanks for getting back, I appreciate the Christmas break is special time of the year. I will PM you back on it.


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## ThePeginator

IT LIVES!

You shall hence forth be known as, Notorious P.I.D










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## CoffeeGoGo

Haha a nice January project. Have an order in for one as well. Be interested in your experience with the stable boiler temps now! ?


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## ThePeginator

CoffeeGoGo said:


> Haha a nice January project. Have an order in for one as well. Be interested in your experience with the stable boiler temps now!


I've literally only done one test shot so far but I'm a bad guinea pig because I'm a crap "barista" 

I mostly did the upgrade because I was going to have the machine in pieces so descale it so decided to just do it all at once, and I like tinkering!

I also haven't run the auto-config on the pid yet so there's still a long way to go, but I'm confident it's way more stable than it was before already if the read-out is anything to go by.

One thing I do know is the steam is insane compared to before, steam for DAYS. I set my steam stat to 147 because I thought I'd read other people having good results with that, but I now remember it's 155 people are using but it displays 147 due to the -8 offset.

I'll leave it where it is for now and maybe up it in future.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CoffeeGoGo

ThePeginator said:


> I've literally only done one test shot so far but I'm a bad guinea pig because I'm a crap "barista"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mostly did the upgrade because I was going to have the machine in pieces so descale it so decided to just do it all at once, and I like tinkering!
> 
> I also haven't run the auto-config on the pid yet so there's still a long way to go, but I'm confident it's way more stable than it was before already if the read-out is anything to go by.
> 
> One thing I do know is the steam is insane compared to before, steam for DAYS. I set my steam stat to 147 because I thought I'd read other people having good results with that, but I now remember it's 155 people are using but it displays 147 due to the -8 offset.
> 
> I'll leave it where it is for now and maybe up it in future.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 There's potential in us all ☕, plus you are making good efforts in reducing the variables.

I have to say asking a few questions here and reading plenty of others previous experiences/tips really is invaluable as you know. We could have all bought an automatic and be done with it but a little research and learning is surely worth it?.

Post back when you get a few more shots dialed in.


----------



## ternary

Want that MrShades PT100! Getting my post count up to PM him about it...


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## Michael87

Have been using this for a week now.

It has shown me the difference that 1 degree makes in brewing. I don't have a refined taste, and even struggle to distinguish bitter from sour sometimes, but I turned the temp from 93 to 92 and it makes a WORLD of difference (way more sour). And then up to 94, again, completely different shot (quite bitter). A single degree.

I am sure this machine, without a PID, is varying over at least 5 degrees. So I conclude that this is clearly necessary (though not sufficient) to get consistent tasting coffee.

Even a good temp surfing regime could be off by 0.5 - 1 deg, as the PID shows temperature changing very quickly (especially when the element is on). So you would need to be very consistent in timings to get close to this.

Really amazing.

And now, after opening this can of worms, I will stop fiddling with temp. I will set it to 93 and work on everything else!


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## ThePeginator

CoffeeGoGo said:


> There's potential in us all , plus you are making good efforts in reducing the variables.
> I have to say asking a few questions here and reading plenty of others previous experiences/tips really is invaluable as you know. We could have all bought an automatic and be done with it but a little research and learning is surely worth it.
> Post back when you get a few more shots dialed in.


Yeh it's a pretty steep learning curve, but I do feel like I'm getting somewhere now. I'm able to pull something that's not garbage! Just need to work on refinement and repeatability.

I'm still running one of the stock settings on the PID at the moment, haven't had much of a chance to play with it but next week I'll run the auto config and see what that does.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pants001

Dont stress about the PID Settings. This just controls how fast in gets up to speed, how much it over shoots when getting to the set temp and how quickly it recovers after a shot.

Once you have the machine on for 20 mins and its up to temp the settings will have limited / no effect.


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## MrShades

Pants001 said:


> Dont stress about the PID Settings. This just controls how fast in gets up to speed, how much it over shoots when getting to the set temp and how quickly it recovers after a shot.
> Once you have the machine on for 20 mins and its up to temp the settings will have limited / no effect.


The PID parameters are quite important - they certainly do have significant effects if you are actually using it to make coffee (whether you've just turned the machine on or have had it warmed up for 20 mins) and you can't simply set them to anything! Hence your post is pretty inaccurate and I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to believe it.

The wrong PID parameters could see the machine temp fluctuating wildly rather than idling at a stable set point, it could be very slow to recover from pulling a shot, very slow to heat up or very slow to recover etc

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ThePeginator

Might have to see what my PID has set itself to now I've run the auto config, see if the settings sound sensible or way out there.

One thing I have noticed is that when it re-heats the boiler after a shot it will overshoot (that bit is normal), then begin to come back down but shoot back up again before it can stabilise. Kind of like it's trying to land a hot air ballon - if you catch my drift - but every time it 'comes into land', rather that giving it just enough juice to equalise the temperature, it freaks out and gives it the beans and the temp shoots up again, eventually it coasts back down and stabilises but I feel like it could be a lot quicker if it behaved a bit differently.

Maybe worth running the auto config again? I'll make a note of the settings before I do this time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ashcroc

ThePeginator said:


> Might have to see what my PID has set itself to now I've run the auto config, see if the settings sound sensible or way out there.
> 
> One thing I have noticed is that when it re-heats the boiler after a shot it will overshoot (that bit is normal), then begin to come back down but shoot back up again before it can stabilise. Kind of like it's trying to land a hot air ballon - if you catch my drift - but every time it 'comes into land', rather that giving it just enough juice to equalise the temperature, it freaks out and gives it the beans and the temp shoots up again, eventually it coasts back down and stabilises but I feel like it could be a lot quicker if it behaved a bit differently.
> 
> Maybe worth running the auto config again? I'll make a note of the settings before I do this time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Did you run the auto config from cold or when the machine had already got up to temp?


----------



## ThePeginator

ashcroc said:


> Did you run the auto config from cold or when the machine had already got up to temp?


Twice, both times at the end of being on for a full day. I should have made a note of the settings the first time. I'll try and remember to do so later and then run it again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pants001

MrShades said:


> The wrong PID parameters could see the machine temp fluctuating wildly rather than idling at a stable set point


 Sorry yes your right. Even after 20 mins it may not settle on set temp.


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## ThePeginator

So I made a note of my current settings (4.5, 101, 25) today..

Then ran the auto config again, at the end of the day after the machine had been on for hours.

Came out pretty similar at 4.8, 108, 27. Interesting that everything went up, although presumably it was just in the ballpark as it hasn't changed much. I'll try this out for a few days and may play with the 'souf' after that and see if there's much difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lolvut

Hello MrShades, do you stil sell your PID kit? I would like to purchase it and have sent you a PM a few days ago but no reply.


----------



## Zeak

Props to Mr Shades for this legendary mod. Took me around 3h (looks like the avg here) and just had my first drink. All working great!

Also thanks to @gk36 for the hinge idea.


----------



## Wilko327

How do I go about ordering one of these?


----------



## Brent

Hi all,

I am newer to this forum and have owned a GC for several years now. I have done the brass plate, IMS shower screen with basket, OPV mod to 9bar and have a bottomless portafilter on the way. I have been experimenting with temp surfing and just can't seem to get it consistent. So I am considering Mr Shades PID for my GC. I have also seen a lot of information regarding the dimmer mod on this forum. Thanks to all the comments on this thread as it is helping me make the decision to pull the trigger on Mr Shades PID kit.

Happy espresso making.


----------



## Brent

Brent said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am newer to this forum and have owned a GC for several years now. I have done the brass plate, IMS shower screen with basket, OPV mod to 9bar and have a bottomless portafilter on the way. I have been experimenting with temp surfing and just can't seem to get it consistent. So I am considering Mr Shades PID for my GC. I have also seen a lot of information regarding the dimmer mod on this forum. Thanks to all the comments on this thread as it is helping me make the decision to pull the trigger on Mr Shades PID kit.
> 
> Happy espresso making.


 I forgot to include the Rancilio steam wand upgrade.


----------



## jschenk

Great mod! Did anyone else choose to mount it vertically? Didn't want it to stick out too much.


----------



## majomista

Hi there

I'm interested in buying this kit but can't find an easy way to purchase on eBay or via google. Could you help me out please so I can give you some money?

Bw

Jim


----------



## MrShades

majomista said:


> Hi there
> I'm interested in buying this kit but can't find an easy way to purchase on eBay or via google. Could you help me out please so I can give you some money?
> Bw
> Jim


Have discussed with Jim over PM - but unfortunately he has a Classic 2015 and my kits aren't suitable for them - though for anyone else looking, Auber do sell a 2015 kit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skizz

Thanks Mr Shades. My kit arrived today, superbly packed and with a link to one of the most accessible and thorough installation guides I've ever read. Will post a pic when installed, along with all the other mods I've got planned.


----------



## Bagpu55

Thanks MrShades, kit arrived quickly and really well put together. Must say I really did take my time with it and installed the Brew and Steam elements. Probably took me about 5 hours though as electrics are not my thing and was extra careful. Pulled the boiler out but even still is quite a nimble operation with all the cables. First run with the PID settings went quite well but a bit of overshooting initially, ran autotunex2 now and you can see the fine tuning but still needs a little tweak. More importantly my brews have been much better and not so varied, with new flavours. Strangely I think my machine is much safer than it was before. People mention much more steam pressure but mine was the opposite. Previously the boiler roared abit when the steam was on, and it was really hard to control frothing milk due to the power it was coming out (I greatly suspect something was not right and it was overheating++). Now with it set to 137 I can actually control what I am do so much easier and my texture of milk is better. The instructions do require reading a few times especially if your installing both elements, there is almost a little too much info (if you want just a brew control do this, if you want both do that-if you see what I mean). I was on the fence initially about getting this but so glad I did now. Thanks.


----------



## Draganime

Hi MrShades, tried to message you but couldnt find the button. Ive got a gaggia classic 2008 and I wanna buy a PID kit, could you let me know how?


----------



## Skizz

Very happy with my freshly PID'd 2004 vintage Classic. Top notch support from Mr Shades and a genuinely fun installation process.

I'd guess that others' estimates of circa 3 hours is about right for fitting but couldn't say for sure as I was completely stripping and refurbishing my machine in whatever chunks of time I could grab over the last couple of weeks. The post-installation PID initialisation/setup was also straight forward, again with guidance from Mr Shade's excellent setup guide.

I took my cue from a number of other PID users and mounted mine on a stainless 75mm butt-hinge (£1.50 for two, Toolstation) and made a bumper/levelling pad from three small squares of bike inner-tube stuck together with double-sided tape.

Thanks again to Mr Shades for his brilliant guidance (and moral support) and to all the other forum users who offered hints and tips. If you've got or are looking at a pre-2014 Classic and are thinking about fitting a PID, I'd say go for it.

Here's a pic of the first vaguely drinkable shot after installation.

Cheers.


----------



## Tomdubs1

Out of interest, what PID settings have you settled on since installing? I've recently fitted a rexc100 (good-y) clone and ran the auto tune a few times once the machine was up to temp.

It seems stable at 96°c after 5-10 mins warm up but drops to around 93 or even as low as 89 during the shot before the pid reacts and the temp starts climbing again.

My settings are:

P - 31
I - 16
D - 04
Ar - 01
R - 20
Sc - -08

Cheers,

Tom.


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## Pants001

On the weekend i had to make about 6 coffees for relatives and its a slow process

(Usually its just me making a coffee so no dramas, or me and wife if i'm feeling nice)

but my back to back process went like this.....Machine warmed up for 20 or so mins prior......grind and brew a double shot, turn steam on, empty the grinds and clean the basket, froth the milk, turn the steam off, make the coffee, release excess steam, expunge some hot water. ( This drops it down pretty close to the 94 for my next double) and repeat.

Having the PID is invaluable for seeing when the machine is ready again

Is this others experience or do people have a different system for back to back?


----------



## AJSK66

Tomdubs1 said:


> Out of interest, what PID settings have you settled on since installing? I've recently fitted a rexc100 (good-y) clone and ran the auto tune a few times once the machine was up to temp.
> It seems stable at 96°c after 5-10 mins warm up but drops to around 93 or even as low as 89 during the shot before the pid reacts and the temp starts climbing again.
> My settings are:
> P - 31
> I - 16
> D - 04
> Ar - 01
> R - 20
> Sc - -08
> 
> Cheers,
> Tom.


Don't have the settings to compare but I have a similar drop during the shot. I assumed it's pretty normal, but I did find it quite a significant drop when I first noticed.


----------



## Tomdubs1

I did read a blog post recently by someone who had fitted a PID to the new 2019 Classic which i believe has a similar sized aluminum boiler as the original?

Anyway, the PID settings used were completely different to mine and had been programmed to use the PID more like a HX by using an aggressive overshoot. I'm yet to try the settings but was intrigued as to whether this would minimize the temp drop during the shot.


----------



## JTBeans

Ahoi C.F.U.K. !

As you can see I am new to the group and for many reasons all having to do with every day coffee quality at home.

I have an old Italian made Classic Coffee Gaggia. This needs a new pump because the old pump tested out as faulty at the repair shop. So now would be the time to make at least a few upgrades if items are made for this particular machine.

I look for Mr.Shades PID kit. A proper quality Silvia steam wand. And the knowledge or parts to drop the pressure(BAR) down in order to tune the brew. If there is an improved tank other than the original I would not mind swapping the original one out. If not a proper tank clean and flat surface treatment will do. I've heard about other tricks with the basket and basket seal(bushing?), the shower, etc. Surely I would try these modifications out if they are harmless enough to the machine, improve quality and durability.

The machine I have is made in mid 2001. Model: Classic Coffee. European Voltage. 1425Watts.

I am ready to get my hands dirty and do the right thing in order to start my day, every day, with a quality pull of espresso. The beans, grinder, and water are all waiting in line for this to happen. When this is done I will move on to other projects of interest that also have to do with brewing quality coffee.

I do look online for tutorials, videos, etc. Now that I've signed in to this group I will look for solid confirmations and recommendations.

Regards,

JTBeans


----------



## IceQubed

I'm another happy customer! The guide was pretty easy to follow and was a good 'afternoon in' activity. It was clear that he's thought of everything and the multiple revisions mean that pretty much every issue someone could come up with has been accounted for.

I'm still dialling in the PID, the auto calibration routine seems to select a high 'I' around 100 for some reason, which I think is making it a bit slow to heat up.

Decided to mount with the 'standard' side mount method although may switch to the hinge when I can get my hands on one.

I also took the opportunity to upgrade my gasket to one of those blue Cafelat ones as the gasket that had been installed previously was a bit too large/stiff leading to it locking in at a 7 o'clock position. I've also got a nice wooden handled bottomless portafilter on the way, and am trying to decide whether or not a VST filter is a worthwhile upgrade.

One thing I may mention to @MrShades is that the crimped on 'ring' connector on part Q (meant to be screwed in to one of the SSRs to chassis) was too small to fit onto the supplied SSR bolt. I ended up snipping off the edge of the ring and splaying the resulting 'open circle' out into a makeshift fork connector. I managed to screw this down relatively securely but may swap it out for a new crimped on connector of the right size.

EDIT: I'm an idiot and put it in the wrong way round. Small ring goes on the PID controller housing, fork goes on the Gaggia.


----------



## MrShades

Thanks for your post@IceQubed - and well done on a quick and successful install!

Concerning your minor issue with the earth wire (part Q), you've got it round the wrong way.... the ring connector goes inside the PID case (you'd find it much easier to fit securely with the ring) and the fork (that I assume you have inside the case now) is for the SSR mounting screw. If you fit it that way then both screws (small case screw for the ring connector and larger SSR screw for the fork) fit fine. You don't need to cut it or adjust anything - and needing to do so should have been an alarm bell, and you should have just pinged me a quick PM and I could have helped. No harm done though - it'll still all work well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IceQubed

Thanks, that makes much more sense! ? Must be my lack of sleep... I'll edit my post above to clarify!

It was a fun build!


----------



## jh297

Do I still need to reach X amount of posts to be able to PM you MrShades? Wanting to purchase this asap!


----------



## ispasov

My setup. I find the vertical position much more practical.


----------



## Kinanoman

Hi @MrShades, I just purchased a Gaggia Classic (2010). I'd love one of these PID kits. How do I go about ordering one?

Thanks,

Brian


----------



## B33FSQU4TCH

Looking forward to getting one of these as well.. What is the cost with shipping to the states?


----------



## Peng

@MrShades, I sent you a PM about shipping to the US. Pretty stoked.


----------



## MrShades

B33FSQU4TCH said:


> Looking forward to getting one of these as well.. What is the cost with shipping to the states?


 PM me for details


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## GianlucaBrisi

Skizz said:


> Very happy with my freshly PID'd 2004 vintage Classic. Top notch support from Mr Shades and a genuinely fun installation process.
> 
> I'd guess that others' estimates of circa 3 hours is about right for fitting but couldn't say for sure as I was completely stripping and refurbishing my machine in whatever chunks of time I could grab over the last couple of weeks. The post-installation PID initialisation/setup was also straight forward, again with guidance from Mr Shade's excellent setup guide.
> 
> I took my cue from a number of other PID users and mounted mine on a stainless 75mm butt-hinge (£1.50 for two, Toolstation) and made a bumper/levelling pad from three small squares of bike inner-tube stuck together with double-sided tape.
> 
> Thanks again to Mr Shades for his brilliant guidance (and moral support) and to all the other forum users who offered hints and tips. If you've got or are looking at a pre-2014 Classic and are thinking about fitting a PID, I'd say go for it.
> 
> Here's a pic of the first vaguely drinkable shot after installation.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> View attachment 36966
> 
> 
> View attachment 36967
> 
> 
> View attachment 36968
> 
> 
> View attachment 36969


 Lovely setup! Love the idea of setting the PID on the butt-hinge. Looks great.


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## MadcoffeeMan

Hi - first post woo. I would like to order one of these! Have you posted to NZ before?

Thanks


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## MrShades

MadcoffeeMan said:


> Hi - first post woo. I would like to order one of these! Have you posted to NZ before?
> 
> Thanks


I've probably posted to most countries that have electricity and access to coffee beans!

PM me when you're able to and I can help.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MadcoffeeMan

MrShades said:


> I've probably posted to most countries that have electricity and access to coffee beans!
> 
> PM me when you're able to and I can help.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Good news is we have access to coffee beans here and i'm pretty good at pedaling on my bike to keep the electricity coming. Which is ironically why I need the coffee...

I'm joking of course. My dog does the pedaling. Will send you a PM thanks


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## Simmo1969

Hi,

I have had this machine (Gaggia 2014) for a few years, but stopped using it as I felt the aeropress produced better coffee. Just came across this group.

Should I sell the Gaggia or can anyone recommend what mods would improve performance/taste of coffee. Do the mods really make much difference? If so what is the cost?

Thanks,


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## Simmo1969

Hi, do you still sell the Gaggia upgrade kit? Anyone in Notts do the fitting (but happy to try myself)


----------



## MrShades

Simmo1969 said:


> Hi, do you still sell the Gaggia upgrade kit? Anyone in Notts do the fitting (but happy to try myself)


Drop me a PM and I can let you know how to buy - thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Simmo1969

have sent a pm. Thanks


----------



## Fat_Ed

Also PM'ed. Excited for this!


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## Simmo1969

Does anyone have an old Gaggia for sale (pre 2015)-with or without modifications


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## smatty

Got mine very quickly and it's all up and running. Instructions really good and I particularly liked that there's a few spare screws for the box as first thing I did was drop a few on the floor when opening the kit! Some vendors could learn a lot from that!

First brew was really good, espresso came out nicely and the milk frothing seemed to work better too with more consistent temperatures. Nice to see exactly what's going on in the machine, I reckon a pressure gauge mod might not be far off. Going to run the auto-tune now.

Thank you very much MrShades, that's a great bit of kit you've put together!


----------



## Michael87

What steam temp is everyone using? I've been increasing mine up to 160degC to try and get drier steam and more power although it does peak at about 170 and that's probably not fantastic for the boiler.


----------



## Agentb

Michael87 said:


> What steam temp is everyone using?


 I have mine at 149 / 150 - it will over shoot that by a few degrees as the heat energy conducts it's way towards the sensor.

I usually start the steaming when it approaches 140.

You need to be mindful that the thermal fuse is 184 iirc and if that goes, you will know about it and need to solder in a replacement 🔥

If you forget and leave the steam on, after making coffee expect things to be very hot, the boiler probably dry and things generally unpleasant. I usually pump some water (steam) after steaming to get the temp back down, flushes the screen and PF etc ready for the next one.... 😺


----------



## Michael87

Someone told me not to flush the group at steam temp but that would save me a load of time after I've made my coffee if I could do that. I'm not sure if there's anything in there that wouldn't like steam going through- solenoid valve?


----------



## MrShades

Michael87 said:


> Someone told me not to flush the group at steam temp but that would save me a load of time after I've made my coffee if I could do that. I'm not sure if there's anything in there that wouldn't like steam going through- solenoid valve?


Flush away - I don't see any issue at all with it (it's what I do) - other than being careful of the steam that flies out of the group!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Inspector

I always turn the machine off and release the excess steam from wand, after I have steamed milk.

When steam stops, I turn the machine back on ( not necessarily immediately) flick steam and brew button at same time let water run from wand, this fills the boiler. Then flick the steam button off and keeping brew button on only. When water comes from group and wand at the same time I turn the steam knob off and only let water run from group head. That's it.


----------



## Agentb

MrShades said:


> Flush away - I don't see any issue at all with it (it's what I do) - other than being careful of the steam that flies out of the group!


 Obviously you need to knock out the puck and clean the PF.

If i have any plastic bottles from milk, water, fruit juice etc, i use the steam to shrink them down and squash them. Reduces the size of the waste.

Then flush and that cleans the shower screen and the group (a bit) - if you have a clean PF locked in in you might even see some fines which were behind the screen. 👍


----------



## Dayks

Very pleased with the kit, set mine up yesterday and today pulled my first shots out of this classic for a couple of years, had forgotten how much better the steam is compared to the Sage DTP (also surprised how much finer I had to grind).









Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## worzel

All installed! 
I started the installation at 11pm (optimistic I know) and finally got to bed at 4.30am. By that time I was so tired that I had to read some of the instructions 3 or 4 times (the Belgium beer didn't help either), but to my surprise it worked first time!

I'm still considering how to mount it on the machine - I kinda prefer it on top rather than sticking out the side but I recognise I will need access to the water tank from the top. Ideas very welcomed.

Thank you Mr Shades for stellar service!










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ashcroc

worzel said:


> All installed!
> I started the installation at 11pm (optimistic I know) and finally got to bed at 4.30am. By that time I was so tired that I had to read some of the instructions 3 or 4 times (the Belgium beer didn't help either), but to my surprise it worked first time!
> 
> I'm still considering how to mount it on the machine - I kinda prefer it on top rather than sticking out the side but I recognise I will need access to the water tank from the top. Ideas very welcomed.
> 
> Thank you Mr Shades for stellar service!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


People have mounted on a hinge before so they can access the water fill.


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## Dayks

worzel said:


> All installed!
> I started the installation at 11pm (optimistic I know) and finally got to bed at 4.30am. By that time I was so tired that I had to read some of the instructions 3 or 4 times (the Belgium beer didn't help either), but to my surprise it worked first time!
> 
> I'm still considering how to mount it on the machine - I kinda prefer it on top rather than sticking out the side but I recognise I will need access to the water tank from the top. Ideas very welcomed.
> 
> Thank you Mr Shades for stellar service!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Yeah, it took me about 4 or 5 hours to do too.

Something like https://www.amazon.co.uk/Command-Damage-Free-Picture-Hanging-17201-ES/dp/B07R8W6FGJ/ might work, you would be able to pop the PID off when refilling, although the hinge does look good.


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## MrShades

worzel said:


> All installed!
> I started the installation at 11pm (optimistic I know) and finally got to bed at 4.30am. By that time I was so tired that I had to read some of the instructions 3 or 4 times (the Belgium beer didn't help either), but to my surprise it worked first time!
> 
> I'm still considering how to mount it on the machine - I kinda prefer it on top rather than sticking out the side but I recognise I will need access to the water tank from the top. Ideas very welcomed.
> 
> Thank you Mr Shades for stellar service!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 You STARTED at 11pm????..... you're bonkers! I bet you were shattered by the time you finished - that's really quite amusing... but dedication to the espresso cause if ever I saw it. Well done!

Yes, as has been said, a few people have used a stainless butt hinge to allow the PID to be lifted up so that you can access the water funnel cover - seems like a good idea if you want the PID on top.

Anyway - enjoy your new espresso machine!


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## PeterJG57

And another satisfied customer!

Mine posted Thursday, arrived Friday. Commenced fitting Saturday afternoon and 'finished' after about 4 hours at 19:30ish.

Got up at 7am Sunday to double-check wiring to PID controller before the 'big switch on'. No blue sparks, but stable temperature and 'super steam'. 'Other Half' suitably impressed with coffee output.....

Takes me back to the days of assembling 'big' Airfix kits and figuring out where everything went!

Thanks Mr Shades.....


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## Simmo1969

Looks good and I'm excited to get mine shortly, although not sure about the length of time 

I'm looking for the post about the pressure gauge I could borrow. Does anyone have one to send. I'll pay for postage and resend back in a couple of weeks once the work is done!


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## worzel

MrShades said:


> You STARTED at 11pm????..... you're bonkers! I bet you were shattered by the time you finished - that's really quite amusing... but dedication to the espresso cause if ever I saw it. Well done!
> 
> Yes, as has been said, a few people have used a stainless butt hinge to allow the PID to be lifted up so that you can access the water funnel cover - seems like a good idea if you want the PID on top.
> 
> Anyway - enjoy your new espresso machine!


 Haha! Well, sadly it's the only way I can't get uninterrupted time away from the family. Tiredness and a Belgium beer are nothing when you have screaming children around and you are trying to read dense information and connect electrics.

I guess I was also going to bed at 2am anyway...so it's only 2 hours late to bed 

viva la espresso!


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## John_s

worzel said:


> Haha! Well, sadly it's the only way I can't get uninterrupted time away from the family. Tiredness and a Belgium beer are nothing when you have screaming children around and you are trying to read dense information and connect electrics.
> I guess I was also going to bed at 2am anyway...so it's only 2 hours late to bed
> viva la espresso!


Haha bad news you couldn't drink an espresso either to keep you wake. Well done!


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## Dayks

Really liking the PID, thought the accurate temperature would be the best bit but was really nice yesterday to be able to increase the temperature on an underextracted shot and taste the difference it made.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Zeak

worzel said:


> All installed!
> I started the installation at 11pm (optimistic I know) and finally got to bed at 4.30am. By that time I was so tired that I had to read some of the instructions 3 or 4 times (the Belgium beer didn't help either), but to my surprise it worked first time!
> 
> I'm still considering how to mount it on the machine - I kinda prefer it on top rather than sticking out the side but I recognise I will need access to the water tank from the top. Ideas very welcomed.
> 
> Thank you Mr Shades for stellar service!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Almost did the same but since many of us here mentioned it takes roughly 3hr decided to postpone (glad I did) .) I'm using a butt hinge too. Don't even flip it fully when refilling the tank (don't want to twist the wires), just lift it slightly and take the lid from underneath it. Easiest solution IMO.


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## zombie

Hey Mr Shades

It took me a year to get round to fitting your kit, but I finally did it on Monday this week, took 2 hrs but I have had practice getting the boiler in and out before.

I am stunned by the difference and it's so much better not having to wait so long for the machine to warm up before surfing around...

Steam is amazing now too, it's like I've upgraded a hosepipe to a jet wash.

Thanks for developing this kit, much appreciated.


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## HaroldP

@MrShades could you drop me a DM. After one of the kits


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## Backler84

@MrShades Are you still selling these? Found this post via a google search and is exactly what I'm after.

Cheers

Mark


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## MrShades

Backler84 said:


> @MrShades Are you still selling these? Found this post via a google search and is exactly what I'm after.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark


 PM me - or watch this space over the next week or so.... 😉


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## Oli986

Hi, I'm curious about how the pid works when dialing in and pulling say 2 or 3 shots consecutively. If the themostat is only measuring the boiler temperature when you pull fresh water into the machine say for the 2nd shot, when will you know the water temp is correct as the boiler will heat up quicker?


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## MrShades

Oli986 said:


> Hi, I'm curious about how the pid works when dialing in and pulling say 2 or 3 shots consecutively. If the themostat is only measuring the boiler temperature when you pull fresh water into the machine say for the 2nd shot, when will you know the water temp is correct as the boiler will heat up quicker?


I'm not really understanding your question or concern... perhaps you can explain further?

I don't get your "if the thermostat.." comment - as the PID and the pt100 sensor (which i assume is what you mean rather than the original thermostat) are always working together to sense the boiler temperature and turn the heating elements on in order to get the boiler back to whatever your set temperature needs to be.

If the machine is static and doing nothing then heat is just blipped into then water every now and again - to counter heat loss and keep the temp stable.

If you pull a shot then cold water is pumped in to the boiler and the sensor sees a bigger and more sudden drop in boiler temp so reacts more aggressively by turning the heating elements on for longer to try to counter the more dramatic cooling affect of a shot being pulled.

After you have pulled a shot, the temp of the boiler could well be a few degrees C below your set temperature - but usually, by the time you have knocked out one puck, ground and prepared the next one, and loaded the portafilter back into the machine it should have recovered back to your ideal temp.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oli986

Yeah I'm with you, makes sense really 😅 the controller is there to do exactly that job and stabilise everything. Thanks for explaining


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## Agentb

Don't forget the sensor is measuring the temperature of the boiler casing at the bottom of the boiler a good spot (but it is not in the water flow), so when the temperature drops (from cooling water added) or heated by the elements on the outside the PID, it takes time for the system to detect and the PID react and everything settle to a steady state. I find the best clue is not exactly the temperature at X but is it moving up and down by more than a few tenths. If you steam milk between shots getting it cooled down takes a little more time, helped by running water in / flushing steam out.👍


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## AlastairB

Are there alternative PID controllers available or supported with the kit (and the parameters) ? I like prefer the slim rectangle looking items.


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## MrShades

AlastairB said:


> Are there alternative PID controllers available or supported with the kit (and the parameters) ? I like prefer the slim rectangle looking items.


I only do the slim / rectangular one these days (1/32DIN single display) as 95% of users felt the same. It's a nicer unit, more reliable and better engineered as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Benreade

Just trying to clarify in my mind the primary purpose. Is it to regulate a consistent 'right' temperature between pulling shots or between water and steaming temperature switches?

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## MrShades

Benreade said:


> Just trying to clarify in my mind the primary purpose. Is it to regulate a consistent 'right' temperature between pulling shots or between water and steaming temperature switches?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, it's the former - a standard Classic uses thermostatic control which causes a sine wave of temperature with swings of around +/- 5c, and centred on a fixed temperature. Hence one shot can be 10c different to another.

A PID allows you to both change the fixed temperature of the boiler, and then it regulates power to the boiler in such a way that boiler/brew temperature can be accurate (in an idle machine) to within 0.1 degrees constantly.

A byproduct of my PID kit is that you can also adjust the steam temperature - which therefore affects the steam pressure, giving better steaming power.

You set all of this up once - when installing - and then just use your machine as you would normally.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Agentb

Benreade said:


> Just trying to clarify in my mind the primary purpose. Is it to regulate a consistent 'right' temperature between pulling shots or between water and steaming temperature switches?


 Just to add to MrShades answer - another function is displaying the temperature. Without a PID all you know is, it was at certain (approximate) temperate a few seconds ago if you noticed it changing, for example after steaming the Classic is about 145C and you need to get that down. You end up clock watching and counting.

Without a PID you are a bit lost, you will see light on - but that doesn't tell you where its at right now, just that the temperature is probably falling (from too hot) and the light will go off when the power goes back on (too cold).

Warming up to steam temp is a bit the same - although accurate steam temp is not such a big deal as you get to know it takes about 30-40 seconds - while you mess about with cold milk and jugs. 👍


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## Michael87

8 didn't want to make a new thread to ask this, do you know what gauge the copper wire is for this PID/classic in general? I've accidentally bought steel wire that seems far too think.


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## MrShades

Michael87 said:


> 8 didn't want to make a new thread to ask this, do you know what gauge the copper wire is for this PID/classic in general? I've accidentally bought steel wire that seems far too think.


Depends what you're doing with it and what current you're expecting it to carry - but you want something that is high temp silicone insulated and between 0.5mm2 and 1.5mm2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ecomonic

It took me 5 hours total to assemble everything and calibrate the PID, but it's awesome. Better brewing, better steaming ... I'm super happy 🙂


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## Shahyaan

ecomonic said:


> It took me 5 hours total to assemble everything and calibrate the PID, but it's awesome. Better brewing, better steaming ... I'm super happy
> 
> <img alt="gaggia_pid.thumb.jpg.f3e46411ab55060cd59171f93b422d88.jpg" data-fileid="40496" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_06/gaggia_pid.thumb.jpg.f3e46411ab55060cd59171f93b422d88.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


I love this set up. I'm just waiting on my Gaggia Classic now. How many clicks from fully closed did you start with on the ROK grinder?

Can't wait for MrShades to start selling again. First purchase will be the PID, then probably the spring mod.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Michael87

Really clean setup, love the handle and is that a v3 steam wand?


----------



## ZYXMAXYZ

Shahyaan said:


> I love this set up. I'm just waiting on my Gaggia Classic now. How many clicks from fully closed did you start with on the ROK grinder?
> 
> Can't wait for MrShades to start selling again. First purchase will be the PID, then probably the spring mod.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Second that!


----------



## jazzersi

Michael87 said:


> is that a v3 steam wand?


 I think it is the wand that comes on the newest model Classic (Classic Pro)


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## Adamg8504

I got my PID installed today and all seems to be working well! I had one question though and I don't think I've seen it asked anywhere (probably because it's a dumb question)...

If you set your PID for degrees Fahrenheit, I assume you need to set all your set points and limits in degrees F, also, right?


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## MrShades

Adamg8504 said:


> I got my PID installed today and all seems to be working well! I had one question though and I don't think I've seen it asked anywhere (probably because it's a dumb question)...
> If you set your PID for degrees Fahrenheit, I assume you need to set all your set points and limits in degrees F, also, right?


Yes, correct.

Where I mention C temperatures in the manual I also give the F temp value that you should use.... and I think I do this for all cases, but let me know if you think I've missed any!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mistle

Thanks MrShades, PID arrived in Australia very quickly and I installed it this afternoon with your incredible guide, which is worth the cost alone.

All is working well and knowing I'll never have to temp surf again for brewing or steaming is such a good feeling. The 8°C offset was perfect too, checked with a styrofoam cup and thermometer and a 93 SV was 93 in the cup!

 One question though..

Using the suggested PID values in the manual (specially set 1) seemed to cause it to overshoot 5-10°. So I ran the autotune, and now it seems to hover 5°c or so below SV, and very slowly crawl up to correct temp over several minutes. I ran the auto tune a few times and same thing occured.

I'll try the other two suggested setting also but any idea why this might be the case? Am I wrong in thinking that it should be a somewhat steady climb up to my SV and then essentially lock onto it? Was hoping that I could pull a shot, and by the time I prep my next shot it'd be just about ready to go again.

Thanks!


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## MrShades

There's no "perfect" setting for PID control - changes in idle temp stability are normally reflected in time to recover and cold warm up time. It's a fine balance - and normally you'll find that the best setting is one which provides a quick recovery but overshoots slightly, settling back to your SV within a minute or two. No overshoot normally means that recovery is slower.

Try different values and see how you get on. Autotune may sometimes be preferred and sometimes not.

Have fun!

Adrian

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrShades

EXCITING UPDATE:

We've just launched a new website to make everything a little easier - check out www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk

Obviously you can still contact me on here - but ordering is now via the website and queries etc may be faster over there too, as we have web chat and email etc

Thanks!

Adrian / MrShades / Mr Shades of Coffee

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## gm031193

Its fantastic that you have set up a website! I just ordered a PID kit for my 2012 Classic through the website (I am the one with Cardiff postage address), website is easy to navigate through to checkout etc.

Really looking forward to having a stab at putting this together and will be eagerly reading through the acclaimed instruction manual whilst I wait for it to arrive! Being a relative youngster and bad at DIY I might have to fire a few questions over whilst I am installing, but we shall wait and see!

George


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## Naiko

I ordered a PID last night on MrShades shiny new website! The site looks really good! Nice visuals and very easy checkout. Great to see some other spare parts on there as well! 👏 👏 👏


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## Roast-ed

Just bought one - smart move getting the site setup!


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## Agentb

I noticed a new part - or maybe it was there all along.

"Test resistor for possible diagnostic use."


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## MrShades

Agentb said:


> I noticed a new part - or maybe it was there all along.
> "Test resistor for possible diagnostic use."


Yes, it's new - just a simple 100ohm resistor that can help in assuring users that it's actually the pt100 sensor that they've damaged during installation rather than the PID controller playing up. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nicob

Hi MrShades and all,

Do you still offer the kit for £94 posted? The total on your website seems to be £100.80.

Thanks a lot!


----------



## AndyDClements

MrShades said:


> EXCITING UPDATE:
> 
> We've just launched a new website to make everything a little easier - check out www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk
> 
> Obviously you can still contact me on here - but ordering is now via the website and queries etc may be faster over there too, as we have web chat and email etc
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Adrian / MrShades / Mr Shades of Coffee
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Hi.

Site looks good, although it don't seem to have the required cookie notice & controls. Hopefully they're just a selection available on the shop software. Some may be essential but things like those for chat & shop basket don't normally qualify as that.


----------



## MrShades

AndyDClements said:


> Hi.
> Site looks good, although it don't seem to have the required cookie notice & controls. Hopefully they're just a selection available on the shop software. Some may be essential but things like those for chat & shop basket don't normally qualify as that.


Yes, good points - I need to tick a few boxes and add to the privacy policy.

Due to how the shop basket and chat work and the purpose they're used for (anonymous support rather than any form of data collection and marketing), I'm not sure that consent is strictly required - but I may well add it anyway. Will take a good look at it all tomorrow.

Thanks for the advice - much appreciated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrShades

nicob said:


> Hi MrShades and all,
> Do you still offer the kit for £94 posted? The total on your website seems to be £100.80.
> Thanks a lot!


Previous price relied on the ability to use PayPal friends/family - which with the website isn't an option - but many people were preferring to pay a higher PayPal 'goods and services' price before and the new price is very similar to that.

So the new price is the price now - and seeing as its the first price increase of that kit ever, and it's relatively small - I still think it's great value.

If I put my prices up by the same percentage as my costs have increased recently then the new price would be much higher!


----------



## nicob

OK MrShades, makes sense but was just checking.


----------



## Adamg8504

MrShades said:


> Thanks for the great feedback!
> 
> Regarding the offset - it adjusts what the controller reads from the sensor (and uses or displays).
> 
> So with -8c and 93.0sv : the controller will be reading 101.0c and applying -8.0c before doing anything else... so your display temp will show 93.0 and your SV will be 93.0 - but the real temp being sensed by the pt100 is 101.0c


 Sorry, I'm trying to understand the PSB offset and what it does.

So, if your target brewing water temperature is 93C, that's what you set your SV to, correct? With a PSB of 0, your controller will read 93C, once properly warmed up.

With your description above, psb at -8c, SV at 93c, you're saying that the actual temp at the PT100 is 101c? If this is true, then setting your SV at 93c and psb at 0c would result in brewing water 8c too low?

The theory is that you lose heat between the point the temperature is taken and when the water meets your coffee, and if you want water temp at 93c when it contacts your coffee, you need a higher set point. I suppose I'm a bit confused because I keep thinking that I would set the set point, SV to 101c and use the offset to reduce the display temp by 8c. But that's apparently not how the PID works.

Sorry for what is probably a confusing post.


----------



## MrShades

Adamg8504 said:


> Sorry, I'm trying to understand the PSB offset and what it does.
> 
> So, if your target brewing water temperature is 93C, that's what you set your SV to, correct? With a PSB of 0, your controller will read 93C, once properly warmed up.
> 
> With your description above, psb at -8c, SV at 93c, you're saying that the actual temp at the PT100 is 101c? If this is true, then setting your SV at 93c and psb at 0c would result in brewing water 8c too low?
> 
> The theory is that you lose heat between the point the temperature is taken and when the water meets your coffee, and if you want water temp at 93c when it contacts your coffee, you need a higher set point. I suppose I'm a bit confused because I keep thinking that I would set the set point, SV to 101c and use the offset to reduce the display temp by 8c. But that's apparently not how the PID works.
> 
> Sorry for what is probably a confusing post.


 The PID first applies the PSB to the temperature reading at the sensor - before it does any processing or any displaying.

So it will read (eg 101c) but it will instantly apply the Psb of -8 resulting in 93c - you'll never see, be concerned with, or in any way be interested in the 101c value. It'll display this 93c value, and this is what you set your SV to - and/or your steam temp to, etc. etc.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Adamg8504

MrShades said:


> The PID first applies the PSB to the temperature reading at the sensor - before it does any processing or any displaying.
> 
> So it will read (eg 101c) but it will instantly apply the Psb of -8 resulting in 93c - you'll never see, be concerned with, or in any way be interested in the 101c value. It'll display this 93c value, and this is what you set your SV to - and/or your steam temp to, etc. etc.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 Understood. So to answer the other question, if you have PSB set to 0 and SV set to 93, your brewing water is going to be 8c too low? Assuming you want to brew with 93c water, correct?

Also, what is the upper limit for temperature in the boiler? I currently have my steam set at 136.7c but it will over shoot to 145c. If I have my PSB at -8c, that means the temp at the boiler when it overshoots will be 153c, right? This seems pretty hot!!


----------



## MrShades

First answer is correct, yes

Limit for steam is pretty high - a common upgrade is to fit a 155c steam stay, which in your case is like setting your steam temp to 148c (155-8)

The thermal fuse will blow if it goes over about 180c. To be safe I'd keep max steam temp down to 155 (still 8c higher than the updated one). However, you shouldn't need to go that high!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oli986

😫 See this is what happens when you delay 😂


----------



## phario

Oli986 said:


> 😫 See this is what happens when you delay 😂
> 
> View attachment 40946


 I was going to put in an order soon as well; @MrShades how's your stock/demand around this time?


----------



## MrShades

phario said:


> I was going to put in an order soon as well; @MrShades how's your stock/demand around this time?


 Sorry chaps - you snooze, you lose as they say! We're being careful about the amount of stock we put on the website in any week. We don't want to just "dump" large volumes of stock on there and not be able to have any time left to support the other aspects, including the quality service and support that we want to provide.

So we have plenty of stock - we just don't want to sell it in huge volumes, and will be adding more stock to the website every weekend (which is why it's a good idea to sign up for out-of-stock notifications if you find something not available).

We'll probably add more on Saturday or Sunday this week - so sign up for notifications and watch your email.

As it's launch week, we added quite a lot more stock for this week than we would normally - and it still went very quickly. They'll be quite a bit again next week but I have a good number of people on the stock notification list for PID kits and OPV kits already.

Thanks to everyone for your kind comments, support, and obviously custom on the new site - it's hopefully providing a great experience (except for having no stock left this week!)


----------



## gm031193

My PID kit arrived this morning and of course within 10 minutes I made a start in taking my Gaggia apart! Took me around 3 hours plus a bit extra to solve a few hiccups which @MrShades helped me resolve very quickly. Instruction manual is pretty foolproof, the hardest part was figuring out how to pop out the front switchboard with its old rusty hinges!!

Mid-progress pic below


----------



## Pants001

Mate lovely site. Also makes it very easy for us when people ask about a PID. We can just use your URL rather than trying to explain your name, forums, minimum posts etc.

Well done

Every Gaggia deserves a PID


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## MrShades

Pants001 said:


> Mate lovely site. Also makes it very easy for us when people ask about a PID. We can just use your URL rather than trying to explain your name, forums, minimum posts etc.
> Well done
> Every Gaggia deserves a PID


Many thanks - hopefully it'll make everything easier and better for everyone - because as you rightly say, every Gaggia deserves a PID.

First eeek has gone well... we sold out of the week 1 stock allocation (which was more than we would normally allocate) of PID kits by Monday evening, and we put a vast number of OPV kits on but these had all gone by Thursday morning.

We'll load more stock on at the weekend, so a little earlier than we'd planned.

Some more interesting stuff in the pipeline... which will obviously be shown on CFUK first, but then sold via the site.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## luke

Got my kit yesterday and fully set up and running. First few shots have been noticeably smoother thanks @MrShades for developing such a great kit!


----------



## NitJay

Mine arrived today... can't wait to get started tomorrow. So neatly packed 👍


----------



## MrShades

Great stuff!

Has anyone done anything with their "Shades of Coffee" stickers yet?










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## NitJay

Job done 💪(she's coming down from steam temp test)









One thing, post auto tune it doesn't sit at 93c anymore it sits at 92.3c is this something it's decided is best to do?

Also... Don't suppose anyone knows a way to refurbish the gaggia classic label. I much prefer the more recent models ones.

I'll find somewhere suitable for the sticker, didn't notice it until now!


----------



## timb

I have just ordered the kit and looking forward to getting it installed after many years thinking about it.
I was wondering if there was any recommended tasks that I should do whilst I am taking the machine apart?
I have already adjusted the OPV but as my machine is pretty old (but in soft water) - I was wondering if I should clean out the boiler?
Any seals that should be replaced? Also is it worth changing shower bock/screen?

Sorry if these have been asked before - its a long thread I might have missed it.


----------



## Oli986

NitJay said:


> Job done 💪(she's coming down from steam temp test)
> 
> View attachment 41114
> 
> 
> One thing, post auto tune it doesn't sit at 93c anymore it sits at 92.3c is this something it's decided is best to do?
> 
> Also... Don't suppose anyone knows a way to refurbish the gaggia classic label. I much prefer the more recent models ones.
> 
> I'll find somewhere suitable for the sticker, didn't notice it until now!


 Well I guess you could buy a new one here https://www.mrbean2cup.co.uk/gaggia-classic-badge


----------



## dnic

Adrian,

Thank you for your prompt reply and comments it is appreciated. I have placed an order for the PID for my 2006 Gaggia.

Regards

David

ps: remember not to, juggle the pans & cook the children!


----------



## LiquidLogic

PID & OPV mods fitted last night.
Instantly noticed the consistency in the cup: 2 shots today both almost the exact same. Something I'd struggled with before.
Steaming power is better as well, managed to keep the roll all the way through rather than it coming and going.

Overall the instructions were very clear although might be worth bringing the section about how to change the PID to Celcius to the start of that section?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## Naiko

I've just finished installing and testing the PID, thanks a lot MrShades!!

I have noticed that the front buttons get quite hot now, which didn't used to happen before. Has anyone else noticed that and is it something I should be worried about?

Thanks!


----------



## MrShades

Naiko said:


> I've just finished installing and testing the PID, thanks a lot MrShades!!
> I have noticed that the front buttons get quite hot now, which didn't used to happen before. Has anyone else noticed that and is it something I should be worried about?
> Thanks!


They shouldn't get any hotter than they did before - they're just switches, that switch mains AC voltages - and turn on the odd neon light. They still do all of that exactly the same as they did before.

None of it should really give off any heat - the neons should run cool and the switches are just switches... and may get hot if their resistance increases ( if they're dirty inside or the connectors are not firmly connected on the outside)

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## GianlucaBrisi

Thanks again @MrShades for the impeccable customer service, advice and reactivity throughout this process. Thoroughly recommend! 
I also took inspiration from @Skizz and those that came before him - by mounting the PID on a butt hinge. 
It's been working a treat and the consistency in flavour I'm getting is amazing


----------



## Naiko

MrShades said:


> They shouldn't get any hotter than they did before - they're just switches, that switch mains AC voltages - and turn on the odd neon light. They still do all of that exactly the same as they did before.
> 
> None of it should really give off any heat - the neons should run cool and the switches are just switches... and may get hot if their resistance increases ( if they're dirty inside or the connectors are not firmly connected on the outside)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 So I checked the inside, turns out one of connectors was not properly in. I also made sure that no wires were touching the boiler. It seems to be ok now! Thanks @MrShades!


----------



## phario

GianlucaBrisi said:


> Thanks again @MrShades for the impeccable customer service, advice and reactivity throughout this process. Thoroughly recommend!
> I also took inspiration from @Skizz and those that came before him - by mounting the PID on a butt hinge.
> It's been working a treat and the consistency in flavour I'm getting is amazing
> 
> View attachment 41306
> 
> 
> View attachment 41307


 Nice! Can we get an image close up of the hinge? Have you drilled through both PID casing and Gaggia case?


----------



## ashcroc

phario said:


> Nice! Can we get an image close up of the hinge? Have you drilled through both PID casing and Gaggia case?


Those 3m double sided sticky pads should be strong enough to hold the PID. No need to drill & screw/rivet.


----------



## GianlucaBrisi

phario said:


> Nice! Can we get an image close up of the hinge? Have you drilled through both PID casing and Gaggia case?


 Here you go @phario 
As @ashcroc just mentioned, and as was recommended to me by @Skizz use the provided double sided tape to attach to PID, and the other side just slide into the machine. No need for drilling  works a treat 👌🏼


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## PeterJG57

I didn't bother with the sticky tape from hinge to Classic body and simply manoeuvred the hinge in between the case and top. Just used the tape between the PID and hinge. Seems to work fine!


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## Michael87

Oh man. I've had the hinge mounted on the outside of the case this whole time. It looks so much better on the inside!


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## ashcroc

Michael87 said:


> Oh man. I've had the hinge mounted on the outside of the case this whole time. It looks so much better on the inside!
> <img alt="15924084637912367264252959383056.thumb.jpg.6fd038f52729352d8ada664fbec97e7c.jpg" data-fileid="41360" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_06/15924084637912367264252959383056.thumb.jpg.6fd038f52729352d8ada664fbec97e7c.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Fit the hinge to the base of the PID case instead of the side for a cleaner look too.


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## phario

@Michael87 @ashcroc @PeterJG57 @GianlucaBrisi These are all nice clean looks! Was this just a standard hinge purchased from any hardware shop or did some of you need to shop around?

By the way @Michael87 what is that black knob/device?


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## PeterJG57

Toolstation item no.23411 - pair of 75mm narrow butt hinges £1.50 - cribbed this from someone else's post when deciding to upgrade with PID a month or so ago. Apologies to the fellow forum member for not giving credit. Not deliberate, I promise!!


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## phario

Dear @MrShades

I was having a discussion with @Jurredb who I believe has a setup with a 1/32 Auger PID with one of your temperature sensors. Essentially, I was asking how easy it would be to buy your SSR 40AA relay and add a steam relay to use with the alarm function. I believe this is what your current PID kit offers. The PID setup uses a RS1A40D25 relay.

Do you have thoughts on this?

It was an interesting historical exercise to track down the original PID. I believe that @Jurredb inherited it in 2016 [1] from @The resurrection who bought it in 2015 [2] from @ahgee2. In fact, you commented in the 2015 thread! Apparently the temperature probe was broken in 2015. I'm not exactly sure what happened but in the years that elapsed, @Jurredb seems to have bought one of your temperature probes to replace it.

I am somewhat amazed how this forum works.

Anyways, how easy would it be to purchase your SSR 40AA and add the additional steam functionality in your kits and keep this historical Auger device going?

[1]

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/30695-sold-auber-brew-pid/?do=embed

[2]

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/25713-sold-gaggia-evolution-rancilio-steam-wand-and-accessories-%C2%A340/?do=embed


----------



## Michael87

phario said:


> @Michael87 @ashcroc @PeterJG57 @GianlucaBrisi These are all nice clean looks! Was this just a standard hinge purchased from any hardware shop or did some of you need to shop around?
> 
> By the way @Michael87 what is that black knob/device?


 That's my new dimmer for the pump. It's great fun!


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## Michael87

Thanks. That's much cleaner


----------



## Gforce

I just want to echo what everyone else says - Mr Shades' / Adrian's product and after service are second to none. I have tinkered with a few different mods / upgrades now and this definitely makes the biggest difference. Plus you've got a mini flux capacitor on your coffee machine!

Thought I'd share my mounting pics too, in case anyone else of thinking of doing it this way. Bit of a snug squeeze but it works perfectly, the supplied tape did the job also.

Thanks again!


----------



## Oli986

All set up and working! I took inspiration from the other guys and went for the blackout look.

Really well put together kit and instructions.

Thanks Mr Shades (Adrian)


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## MrShades

Looking great! This has finally convinced me to add black cases as an option on the kit - it does look good.... watch this space!

Hmmmm.... I wonder.... ;-)

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## wan

@MrShades will you do dimmer for popcorn maker or gene cafe for roasting machine? example : https://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-controlled-DIY-Coffee-Roaster/

posted by Phil:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51624-severin-popcorn-dimmer-etc/?do=embed

posted by christos_geo:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51163-pop-goes-the-green-bean-another-popcorn-popper-thread/?do=embed


----------



## phario

Oli986 said:


> All set up and working! I took inspiration from the other guys and went for the blackout look.
> 
> Really well put together kit and instructions.
> 
> Thanks Mr Shades (Adrian)
> 
> View attachment 41733
> 
> 
> View attachment 41734


 Is that stock black or spray painted?


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## Oli986

Its spray painted and set on a small piano hinge.


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## MrShades

wan said:


> @MrShades will you do dimmer for popcorn maker or gene cafe for roasting machine? example : https://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-controlled-DIY-Coffee-Roaster/
> posted by Phil:
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51624-severin-popcorn-dimmer-etc/?do=embed
> posted by christos_geo:
> [/URL]


I've got no plans to do mods for popcorn machines or Gene Café roasters I'm afraid - I'll continue to focus predominantly on mods for the Gaggia Classic.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kokkolis

phario said:


> Is that stock black or spray painted?


 Can I ask what spray did you use? Did it need any preparation (e.g. primer etc) or did you just sprayed it on directly and immediately?

Also, it would be nice to have the "gauge modification"...can I ask what did you use and how did you do it? I have got a gauge on a portafilter but this is so much better and useful..! Well done


----------



## Oli986

kokkolis said:


> Can I ask what spray did you use? Did it need any preparation (e.g. primer etc) or did you just sprayed it on directly and immediately?
> 
> Also, it would be nice to have the "gauge modification"...can I ask what did you use and how did you do it? I have got a gauge on a portafilter but this is so much better and useful..! Well done


 Yeah sure, I just used what I had in my van at the time some primer and black spray paint (both multi surface), but I'd use car paint if you can it's a better harder wearing finish. And make sure you key the surface and de-grease before painting to help the paint take.

The gauge was ordered on ebay along with a 42mm HSS hole cutter. It can be a tricky job (as I found out 😅) but if you take the time setting out and careful drilling then should be fine.

Theres a few posts on here about fitting


----------



## Paper Lawyer

Morning all, I am hoping someone can solve an issue which has come to a head today. I carefully followng the installation for Mr Shades' PID kit circa 10 months ago and and it has been great - so much so that my wife insists I always make the coffee.... The only issue that I have had since then is the occasional blowing of a fuse - the first time I put it down to a cheap smart plug. However, since then it has blow the fuse in the plug circa 6 times, twice this morning. It never did this before the PID installation but it is also very infrequent and so I don't believe it is an installation issue - I was very slow and methodical in my approach and I would expect issues on a weekly, if not daily, basis if I had fundamentally failed to follow instructions.

The fuse pops I have flipped the steam switch (this morning within a couple of minutes but usually I'd say 5-10 minutes i.e. I have become sidetracked from using the steam wand) and I suspect/hope that it relates in some way to the target temperature - perhaps the PID is peaking too high when chasing the target of 135C and blowing something? I recall a reference to a thermal fuse but I spotted a flash behind the machine when it went this morning and so I'm concerned it requires more than adjusting the PID to target 130C, for example.

Just to be clear, I think the kit is fantastic and I think/hope it is a small settings change to eliminate this occasional surprise!


----------



## MrShades

Paper Lawyer said:


> Morning all, I am hoping someone can solve an issue which has come to a head today. I carefully followng the installation for Mr Shades' PID kit circa 10 months ago and and it has been great - so much so that my wife insists I always make the coffee.... The only issue that I have had since then is the occasional blowing of a fuse - the first time I put it down to a cheap smart plug. However, since then it has blow the fuse in the plug circa 6 times, twice this morning. It never did this before the PID installation but it is also very infrequent and so I don't believe it is an installation issue - I was very slow and methodical in my approach and I would expect issues on a weekly, if not daily, basis if I had fundamentally failed to follow instructions.
> The fuse pops I have flipped the steam switch (this morning within a couple of minutes but usually I'd say 5-10 minutes i.e. I have become sidetracked from using the steam wand) and I suspect/hope that it relates in some way to the target temperature - perhaps the PID is peaking too high when chasing the target of 135C and blowing something? I recall a reference to a thermal fuse but I spotted a flash behind the machine when it went this morning and so I'm concerned it requires more than adjusting the PID to target 130C, for example.
> Just to be clear, I think the kit is fantastic and I think/hope it is a small settings change to eliminate this occasional surprise!


Interesting.... I don't think this is something that anyone else experiences so I can only imagine that it's something particular to the install in your machine.

The best place to start looking would be the wires exiting the rear cooling slot on the machine - with the machine off, examine all of them very carefully for any signs of physical damage caused by the sharp edges of the cooling slot.

These days I provide a rubber grommet to protect the wires as they exit the machine through the slot, as some were becoming damaged just due to the vibration and sharpness of the slot (and sometimes of the screw above the slot that holds the filler funnel / lid on).

So - have a REALLY good look at the wires in the rear slot and it may be a good idea (even if you can't see anything) to protect the wires within the slot itself with some PVC tape if you have some.

Drop me a PM if you need further help, and we can continue fault finding if this doesn't cure it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Paper Lawyer

Do I have PVC tape? My wife asked me why I had so many different colours of PVC tape when I cam back in from the garage to closely inspect the wiring!

I could not immediately see any wiring damage (see flash photo below) but I did feel a minor roughing up of one of the red wires (second photo) so I taped it up and then sought to tape up the bundle of wires. However, this appeared to cause more wire abrasions as I sought to then tease the taped up cables within the narrow single slot.

So I dismantled the PID, and one at a time, disconnected and reran each blue cable through a second slot (also taping the edges of the slots, as you can see in the final photo).

Hopefully the greater space afforded to the separate bunches of cables, combined with the taping of the slot edges, will eliminate that risk.

FIrst brew was trouble free, which is a good sign.

Thank you Mr Shades for responding so quickly - hopefully that wll be the last of the trouble!


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## MrShades

Nice job.... if you'd appreciate a rubber grommet (or even two) to put in the slots instead then just drop me a PM and I'll sort you out.

A 12mm wiring grommet squashes and squeezes nicely in those slots and you can usually get all wires through one slot within the grommet - which is how the current kit does it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Oli986

Atm I'm using the autotune feature and the deduced values are: P=4.1, I=90, D=22

I'm still new to using the unit and appreciate every machine is different but as these values differ somewhat from the set values stated in the manual I was wondering if mine seem strange at all or if there's any potential negative effects in how they're set?


----------



## Paper Lawyer

MrShades said:


> Nice job.... if you'd appreciate a rubber grommet (or even two) to put in the slots instead then just drop me a PM and I'll sort you out.
> 
> A 12mm wiring grommet squashes and squeezes nicely in those slots and you can usually get all wires through one slot within the grommet - which is how the current kit does it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 That's kind of you but I'm more than happy to source myself, should I have a go. I'm more familar with 20mm grommets for metal clad sockets and metal backboxes - did you mean 20mm or am I simply showing my ignorance?


----------



## MrShades

I use a 12mm, which squashes and fits nicely into the slots. Conveniently it's the same size as the one in the rear of the PID case. I doubt a 20mm will fit but you could always try if you have any lying around.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pants001

Must admit, one of the first things i did was use some silver cloth tape on each side of the wires coming out the back when i noticed how sharp the edges where.

Great idea with the grommet.


----------



## timb

I got my Shades of Coffee PID set up recently and still getting used to it.

Just wondering if it's normal to see a ~10s delay in temp drop when doing a flush?
I was not sure if this delay was due to me installing the temp sensor badly or maybe thats just how long it takes for the temperature of the boiler to drop from the surge of cool water.

Can take a video if it would help explain what I mean.

Awesome kit, thanks @MrShades


----------



## MrShades

timb said:


> I got my Shades of Coffee PID set up recently and still getting used to it.
> 
> Just wondering if it's normal to see a ~10s delay in temp drop when doing a flush?
> I was not sure if this delay was due to me installing the temp sensor badly or maybe thats just how long it takes for the temperature of the boiler to drop from the surge of cool water.
> 
> Can take a video if it would help explain what I mean.
> 
> Awesome kit, thanks @MrShades


 That's probably not unusual - the cold water enters at the bottom of the boiler, and the sensor is half way up it (at around the same level as where the hot water leaves the boiler).


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## barney321

@MrShades How do I go about buying your PID kit? Sorry if its super obvious somewhere...


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## Pants001

If you go back two or three pages you'll see Mr Shades' new webpage


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## barney321

@Pants001 Thanks for the assist


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## shaneg

Another successful installation here and some super responsive help from @MrShades to resolve a blown fuse issue which was no doubt caused by my tired eyes at 11 last night trying to finish the installation. Looking forward to continue improving my espresso making now I'm up and running!


----------



## Valkyrie88

Hi @MrShades

I recently picked up a GC with a blocked solenoid off the forum and have managed to give it a good service and am now getting a flow through the group. The machine came fitted with a 1/16 DIN and upon start up (following strip down) the top LCD is flashing with the below message. Have I messed something up?

There is only one probe going into the brew stat hole, which I can see connects back to your system. The original steam stat is still fitted to the top of the boiler and is connected via the original loom.

If I can work out whats gone wrong/how to operate it I would eventually like to use your system to control both brew and steam temp.

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

<img alt="image.png.e7afd035cbcd5ecd1a52062eb34738d4.png" data-ratio="116.18" width="272" data-fileid="42564" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/image.png.e7afd035cbcd5ecd1a52062eb34738d4.png" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


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## phario

Valkyrie88 said:


> Hi @MrShades
> 
> I recently picked up a GC with a blocked solenoid off the forum and have managed to give it a good service and am now getting a flow through the group. The machine came fitted with a 1/16 DIN and upon start up (following strip down) the top LCD is flashing with the below message. Have I messed something up?
> 
> There is only one probe going into the brew stat hole, which I can see connects back to your system. The original steam stat is still fitted to the top of the boiler and is connected via the original loom.
> 
> If I can work out whats gone wrong/how to operate it I would eventually like to use your system to control both brew and steam temp.
> 
> Your thoughts would be much appreciated.


 Have you tried to Google "Pid error message uuuu"? Quite a number of people ask the same question. Issue seems to be related to the temp probe (and possible SSR). Try for example https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/pid-rtd-sensor-issues.571081/

Check the connections on the various components and particularly the wiring on the probe?


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## MrShades

Valkyrie88 said:


> Hi @MrShades
> I recently picked up a GC with a blocked solenoid off the forum and have managed to give it a good service and am now getting a flow through the group. The machine came fitted with a 1/16 DIN and upon start up (following strip down) the top LCD is flashing with the below message. Have I messed something up?
> There is only one probe going into the brew stat hole, which I can see connects back to your system. The original steam stat is still fitted to the top of the boiler and is connected via the original loom.
> If I can work out whats gone wrong/how to operate it I would eventually like to use your system to control both brew and steam temp.
> Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
> <img alt="image.png.e7afd035cbcd5ecd1a52062eb34738d4.png" data-fileid="42564" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/image.png.e7afd035cbcd5ecd1a52062eb34738d4.png" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


uuuu normally indicates a sensor issue - measure the resistance across the white and each red wire on the sensor - it should be 100-120ohms. If not, or not a good solid resistance (ie up and down) then it's probably a damaged sensor and you'll need another one.

If the sensor is OK then it could well be a controller issue - as the rear connections are very unreliable.

I don't use these C100 controllers any more - as they were generally less reliable.

Hope this helps

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Valkyrie88

Cheers @phario @MrShades I will get on it with a multimeter later today.

Whilst I'm at it, would it be worth removing the thermal paste residue which is now very dry/crusty and reapplying some new paste on the probe/stat port? I have a stick of grey HY810 not sure if it matters or makes a huge diff:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Halnziye-HY810-2g-Tube-with-Spreader-Nano-Thermal-Grease-Paste-4-63-W-m-k/254210437754?epid=1540375252&hash=item3b301f727a:g:VBkAAOSwDNdVr~Qv


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## phario

Valkyrie88 said:


> Cheers @phario @MrShades I will get on it with a multimeter later today.
> 
> Whilst I'm at it, would it be worth removing the thermal paste residue which is now very dry/crusty and reapplying some new paste on the probe/stat port? I have a stick of grey HY810 not sure if it matters or makes a huge diff:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Halnziye-HY810-2g-Tube-with-Spreader-Nano-Thermal-Grease-Paste-4-63-W-m-k/254210437754?epid=1540375252&hash=item3b301f727a:g:VBkAAOSwDNdVr~Qv


 I'm not the expert here but the typical advice would be to just be cautious and buy some cheap thermal paste to redo. This ensures good contact and an accurate temperature.

I don't think anybody can really say to what extent this might affect your readings so most people will just give the cautious answer.

Thermal paste lasts several years in the tube, so a few quid for a syringe you can reuse is not bad.


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## MrShades

Valkyrie88 said:


> Cheers @phario @MrShades I will get on it with a multimeter later today.
> Whilst I'm at it, would it be worth removing the thermal paste residue which is now very dry/crusty and reapplying some new paste on the probe/stat port? I have a stick of grey HY810 not sure if it matters or makes a huge diff:
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Halnziye-HY810-2g-Tube-with-Spreader-Nano-Thermal-Grease-Paste-4-63-W-m-k/254210437754?epid=1540375252&hash=item3b301f727a:g:VBkAAOSwDNdVr~Qv


Possibly worth it - HY810 is good stuff... but it won't solve your problem. I'd address that first before worrying about the Nth degree of responsiveness from adding fresh paste.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrShades

kokkolis said:


> Can I ask what spray did you use? Did it need any preparation (e.g. primer etc) or did you just sprayed it on directly and immediately?
> 
> Also, it would be nice to have the "gauge modification"...can I ask what did you use and how did you do it? I have got a gauge on a portafilter but this is so much better and useful..! Well done


 Black cases are live as an option on the website today - some pictures will follow hopefully later or tomorrow - but they look great!


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## Valkyrie88

@phario @MrShades please dont laugh if Im doing it completely wrong!

RTD Sensor Wire test: https://streamable.com/5bbau3

Reference test: https://streamable.com/xl4pfj

Do I need a steam stat too? its bleeping at 0...darn it!


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## AnaDuarte

Hi, All. New to this group but have been lurking from the USA (on and off) for some time as I figured out PID possibilities--need, workings, and so on. [FYI, in my youth the Moka Pot was the only way we had of making espresso. It is only about 4 years ago that I became a Gaggia Classic owner and began learning how to pull a halfway decent shot. Saying this so y'all know I am a bit of a novice to jargon, pressures, temps, machine parts, and so forth. So please be kind! 🙂 ]

Back to the PID search: I had been looking at another brand and had seen MrShades referenced but could never find his page...until a couple of days ago. Got on there and the rest is history. I have ordered my PID kit AND had the good fortune to find the shorter drip tray, which is quite an elusive creature, indeed. Ordered that guy too and the items have already shipped! Can't wait to see them and continue my journey toward even better espresso!

A quick question, related but not specifically PID--I have seen a lot of discussion re OPV adjustment and wonder how beneficial this mod would be for me. I thought that it was a 15bar pump that in the end brewed at 9bar. So I see all these posts saying it's brewing at 14bar and so on. Can someone help me understand a) how that can be and b) how the OPV change/adjustment would influence? I thank you all so much for the assist! Oh, and if I need to take OPV convo elsewhere, just let me know. Thanks again!


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## AnaDuarte

MrShades said:


> Black cases are live as an option on the website today - some pictures will follow hopefully later or tomorrow - but they look great!


 Oh my, I am the lucky one! I just ordered my PID kit with the black case. Right hot off the presses!


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## Juancho

I am getting a black one right now....I am from Spain and hope to understand properly the instructions...


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## Abcan

@Juancho the instructions are excellent with loads of photo's. I'm sure if you get stuck @MrShades will be happy to help.


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## AnaDuarte

Juancho, I agree with what Abcan said. The instructions are absolutely the best, and MrShades is very responsive to questions. You should have received an email with a link to the instructions. I recommend you download them (PDF format) and begin to read so you can become familiar with the process in advance. Good luck!


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## MrShades

Juancho said:


> I am getting a black one right now....I am from Spain and hope to understand properly the instructions...


 Hopefully your English is better than my Spanish 😉

If required, and on demand, I can put my instructions through a langauge translator (like Google Translate) - and it may help....but it may not. The last time I did this was to translate into Bulgarian.... for a Bulgarian customer in the UK who spoke some English. In the end I'm pretty sure he used the English version!

If anyone ever has any problems, just reach me via PM on here or webchat on my website and I'll do my best to help as quickly and easily as possible.


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## Pants001

AnaDuarte said:


> Oh my, I am the lucky one! I just ordered my PID kit with the black case. Right hot off the presses!


 Im now tempted to buy just the black shell to retro fit mine.

I'd love to see pictures when you're done.


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## AnaDuarte

Pants001 said:


> Im now tempted to buy just the black shell to retro fit mine.
> 
> I'd love to see pictures when you're done.


 Pants001, I sure will provide pix! I think I will be absolutely beside myself once this is completed. 😁 Always good to share successes--yep, affirming success in advance.


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## Juancho

MrShades said:


> Hopefully your English is better than my Spanish 😉
> 
> If required, and on demand, I can put my instructions through a langauge translator (like Google Translate) - and it may help....but it may not. The last time I did this was to translate into Bulgarian.... for a Bulgarian customer in the UK who spoke some English. In the end I'm pretty sure he used the English version!
> 
> If anyone ever has any problems, just reach me via PM on here or webchat on my website and I'll do my best to help as quickly and easily as possible.


 Thanks every body for your encouragement . Certainly I received 3 pdf: one for the PID, one for the OPV and one for the timer disable, as I bought the three of them.

I´ll start the reading just today I hoping not having any problems during the installation when everything arrives to Madrid.

Should I install the OPV before of after the PID, or it doesn't really matter?

Cheers


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## AnaDuarte

Juancho said:


> Thanks every body for your encouragement . Certainly I received 3 pdf: one for the PID, one for the OPV and one for the timer disable, as I bought the three of them.
> 
> I´ll start the reading just today I hoping not having any problems during the installation when everything arrives to Madrid.
> 
> Should I install the OPV before of after the PID, or it doesn't really matter?
> 
> Cheers


 Juancho, you will do great! If you review the documentation you will have a great base of knowledge as you begin.

Regarding your question about order of OPV vs PID, I'm thinking of doing an OPV adjustment on my 2016 Classic but will have to see if I can do myself with hex wrench or if I need to buy springs. I will not know this until I open it up to put in the PID. If I CAN make that adjustment I think I will do that inside change first, as it is the easier of the two. I am also getting a new stainless steel shower holder, an IMS screen, and a silicone gasket. I will install those three before I do anything internally because they are all external changes. Plus, before I even touch the machine for any mods, I will do a descale and overall clean so that everything I do will start with a machine that is clean and fresh as possible.

So, in order: 1. Descale/clean up; 2. change out group head stuff; 3. adjust OPV, if I can just use hex; 4. Install PID mod from MrShades. If I cannot adjust OPV with hex and need springs, I will order those from MrShades and install PID in the meantime. 🙂 Sorry for my long answer to your short question, Juancho!

BTW, if anyone has any suggestions for my plan above, feel free to provide comments. I value everyone's experience and expertise!


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## mwickett

Just dropping in to say thanks to @MrShades for the amazing experiencing purchasing and installing the PID and OPV kits. Really smooth installation and I'm really stoked with the results.


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## AnaDuarte

mwickett said:


> Just dropping in to say thanks to @MrShades for the amazing experiencing purchasing and installing the PID and OPV kits. Really smooth installation and I'm really stoked with the results.


 That is awesome to hear @mwickett! I have received all my parts but am so busy this week with work I cannot do my install until the weekend, earliest. WAAAAH!! I sit here working from my couch, looking at my box of @MrShades equipment, lamenting that I took days off last week and not this week!! Soon, though. Glad you are liking your set up and happy to hear it was a smooth process. I'll be back (relatively) soon with my success story!


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## MrShades

mwickett said:


> Just dropping in to say thanks to @MrShades for the amazing experiencing purchasing and installing the PID and OPV kits. Really smooth installation and I'm really stoked with the results.


 Many thanks for the kind comments Mike - we do our best to make sure that everyone is entirely happy, so it's great to hear that we hit the mark again!

Enjoyr your improved machine and hopefully improved espresso, You next @AnaDuarte - please let me know if you hit any questions 🙂


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## AnaDuarte

MrShades said:


> Many thanks for the kind comments Mike - we do our best to make sure that everyone is entirely happy, so it's great to hear that we hit the mark again!
> 
> Enjoyr your improved machine and hopefully improved espresso, You next @AnaDuarte - please let me know if you hit any questions 🙂


 @MrShades, I will definitely do so. Can't wait to get on this project!!


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## Juancho

So i installed the pid and opv yesterday and everything perfect and working like a charm. The installation was very fun and i had a great time doing it. 
Just one minor issue: the top of the machine dont fit properly any more because some of the space that it needs for fitting is now occupied by the SSR 40 DA.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0tjRNDEbq-9JQ9vi_a8x_RyAw

cheers


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## MrShades

Juancho said:


> So i installed the pid and opv yesterday and everything perfect and working like a charm. The installation was very fun and i had a great time doing it.
> Just one minor issue: the top of the machine dont fit properly any more because some of the space that it needs for fitting is now occupied by the SSR 40 DA.
> 
> https://share.icloud.com/photos/0tjRNDEbq-9JQ9vi_a8x_RyAw
> 
> cheers


Glad you enjoyed it and have it all working!

Is your machine a new a Classic Pro?

Gaggia seem to have changed the funnel design recently (it used to have a flat portion on the left and then a brief slope; now it seems to slope continuously from left to right - is yours like that?)

If it's one of the new ones then the fix is to move the SSR further to the left and mount it vertically rather than horizontally - but you may have to use a different vent slot for your wires ( which is a pain rerouting them)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Juancho

MrShades said:


> Glad you enjoyed it and have it all working!
> 
> Is your machine a new a Classic Pro?
> 
> Gaggia seem to have changed the funnel design recently (it used to have a flat portion on the left and then a brief slope; now it seems to slope continuously from left to right - is yours like that?)
> 
> If it's one of the new ones then the fix is to move the SSR further to the left and mount it vertically rather than horizontally - but you may have to use a different vent slot for your wires ( which is a pain rerouting them)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yes, is the new classic pro. You are right, they change the design. I wiil leave as it is. Is not a big deal


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## MrShades

Juancho said:


> Yes, is the new classic pro. You are right, they change the design. I wiil leave as it is. Is not a big deal


 You may well find that if you just turn the SSR vertical and move it slightly to the left - leaving the wires where they are - that you'll have space.


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## flyboy320

Did the PID and OPV mod a few weeks ago. Nice and easy to follow the great instructions, and for the PID, just a couple little differences in the front wiring panel on my Canadian model, but easy enough to sort out. I mounted it at the back so it's more out of the way since it's not something I need to see all the time. I also added a wifi switch inside the machine so it turns on and off at set times (or I can use Alexa to turn it on and off). Also just finished adding an Arduino with an LCD screen to time the shot. It hooks into the front brew switch to know when the pump is turned on, so it starts and stops whenever the brew switch is turned on/off.

Oh, and I wrapped the stainless in an automotive wrap since I prefer the white look!

Thanks MrShades for the mods


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## NJD1977

flyboy320 said:


> Did the PID and OPV mod a few weeks ago. Nice and easy to follow the great instructions, and for the PID, just a couple little differences in the front wiring panel on my Canadian model, but easy enough to sort out. I mounted it at the back so it's more out of the way since it's not something I need to see all the time. I also added a wifi switch inside the machine so it turns on and off at set times (or I can use Alexa to turn it on and off). Also just finished adding an Arduino with an LCD screen to time the shot. It hooks into the front brew switch to know when the pump is turned on, so it starts and stops whenever the brew switch is turned on/off.
> 
> Oh, and I wrapped the stainless in an automotive wrap since I prefer the white look!
> 
> Thanks MrShades for the mods
> <img alt="IMG_20200730_174626.thumb.jpg.2875e0c502c18040fb85dd7c42d862d6.jpg" data-fileid="43406" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/IMG_20200730_174626.thumb.jpg.2875e0c502c18040fb85dd7c42d862d6.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">
> <img alt="IMG_20200730_174725.thumb.jpg.92cc2fdb5959910c5378a2831efe6c2c.jpg" data-fileid="43407" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/IMG_20200730_174725.thumb.jpg.92cc2fdb5959910c5378a2831efe6c2c.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


That is such a sweet looking set up. It makes me want a classic again!


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## MrShades

flyboy320 said:


> Did the PID and OPV mod a few weeks ago. Nice and easy to follow the great instructions, and for the PID, just a couple little differences in the front wiring panel on my Canadian model, but easy enough to sort out. I mounted it at the back so it's more out of the way since it's not something I need to see all the time. I also added a wifi switch inside the machine so it turns on and off at set times (or I can use Alexa to turn it on and off). Also just finished adding an Arduino with an LCD screen to time the shot. It hooks into the front brew switch to know when the pump is turned on, so it starts and stops whenever the brew switch is turned on/off.
> 
> Oh, and I wrapped the stainless in an automotive wrap since I prefer the white look!
> 
> Thanks MrShades for the mods
> <img alt="IMG_20200730_174626.thumb.jpg.2875e0c502c18040fb85dd7c42d862d6.jpg" data-fileid="43406" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/IMG_20200730_174626.thumb.jpg.2875e0c502c18040fb85dd7c42d862d6.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">
> <img alt="IMG_20200730_174725.thumb.jpg.92cc2fdb5959910c5378a2831efe6c2c.jpg" data-fileid="43407" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/IMG_20200730_174725.thumb.jpg.92cc2fdb5959910c5378a2831efe6c2c.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


That looks great - and nice work on the Arduino timer... you can have Lori's if fun with Arduinos!

I'll tell you what ... a nice slim drip tray in white would look great with that setup ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## flyboy320

MrShades said:


> I'll tell you what ... a nice slim drip tray in white would look great with that setup 😉


 I know, if I was more patient I would have thought about it more and ordered everything at once (OPV PID and drip tray)!


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## ChilledMatt

flyboy320 said:


> Did the PID and OPV mod a few weeks ago. Nice and easy to follow the great instructions, and for the PID, just a couple little differences in the front wiring panel on my Canadian model, but easy enough to sort out. I mounted it at the back so it's more out of the way since it's not something I need to see all the time. I also added a wifi switch inside the machine so it turns on and off at set times (or I can use Alexa to turn it on and off). Also just finished adding an Arduino with an LCD screen to time the shot. It hooks into the front brew switch to know when the pump is turned on, so it starts and stops whenever the brew switch is turned on/off.
> 
> Oh, and I wrapped the stainless in an automotive wrap since I prefer the white look!
> 
> Thanks MrShades for the mods
> 
> <img alt="IMG_20200730_174626.thumb.jpg.2875e0c502c18040fb85dd7c42d862d6.jpg" data-fileid="43406" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/IMG_20200730_174626.thumb.jpg.2875e0c502c18040fb85dd7c42d862d6.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">
> 
> <img alt="IMG_20200730_174725.thumb.jpg.92cc2fdb5959910c5378a2831efe6c2c.jpg" data-fileid="43407" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/IMG_20200730_174725.thumb.jpg.92cc2fdb5959910c5378a2831efe6c2c.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


That looks great. I was thinking of spraying a slightly tatty classic. I hadn't considered automotive wrap. How easy was it to apply? Did you have previous experience with wrapping vehicles?

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## kokkolis

It really looks fab...if time allows, it would be great to see a post on how to wrap the stainless and how to hook the WiFi switch and the Arduino timer...really marvellous!


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## flyboy320

ChilledMatt said:


> That looks great. I was thinking of spraying a slightly tatty classic. I hadn't considered automotive wrap. How easy was it to apply? Did you have previous experience with wrapping vehicles?
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 It wasn't that bad to wrap, but it did take some time as I've never wrapped anything before. I watched this youtube video for some guidance. I used Avery's satin pearl white wrap I bought at a place not too far from me. Avery is supposed to be one of the easier wraps to use as a beginner, and I used one piece to cover the machine so there are no seams. The material has lots of stretch to it so it's easy to wrap around corners, you just have to take your time.


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## flyboy320

kokkolis said:


> It really looks fab...if time allows, it would be great to see a post on how to wrap the stainless and how to hook the WiFi switch and the Arduino timer...really marvellous!


 The WiFi switch idea came from MrShades and he wrote about it in this post. I used a slightly different WiFi switch which I got off Amazon (bought a bunch of them since they are great for use with other things like turning on/off plugged in house lights, etc.

The timer took some time to figure out, but once I did it's actually quite simple. I bought the Arduino Uno, the LCD, and battery holder with switch off Amazon. Now that I have it all running, I could probably use the smaller Arduino boards like the Mini and also a smaller screen like the smaller OLED ones. The trigger for the Arduino to start the timer is the brew switch itself. In my version of the GCP, the brew switch is a DPST type and only one set of contacts were being used, the other two were not connected to anything. So I used the unused side of the brew switch and wired that into the Arduino so it detects when this switch is in a closed position, which starts the timer. I have the Arduino powered by a battery holder with a 9 volt battery and just turn it on when I am using the machine. All this sits behind the machine out of the way, but if I like it I may in the future buy one of the smaller boards and place it inside and power it off the Gaggia's rear power outlet, but for now it works a treat!


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## Juancho

MrShades said:


> You may well find that if you just turn the SSR vertical and move it slightly to the left - leaving the wires where they are - that you'll have space.


 Wont fit vertical. No way. I tried. The best way that almost work perfect is to leave the ssr loose, without the nut grabbing


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## konrut123

Just ordered one of the new black kits on Thursday evening and it's already arrived today in the post. Fantastic service @MrShades

Looks daunting but I'll have a go on tomorrow, fingers crossed 🤞


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## MrShades

konrut123 said:


> Just ordered one of the new black kits on Thursday evening and it's already arrived today in the post. Fantastic service @MrShades
> 
> Looks daunting but I'll have a go on tomorrow, fingers crossed 🤞


 Excellent - thanks for letting me know; it's not daunting - just follow the instructions (but read it all through once beforehand).


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## ChilledMatt

Mine arrived today too. Thanks MrShades.









Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## AnaDuarte

@ChilledMatt, you are fast! I've had mine for a couple weeks but as yet time to do the work eludes me. That set-up looks very nice--it appears you used a hinge to swing the PID out of the way as needed. A quick question for you: which portafilter is that? Looks very pretty and sturdy too. I have the stock one and the handle is getting a little wiggly. Thanks, and congrats on your beautiful set up!


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## ChilledMatt

@AnaDuarte thanks. The install is quite enjoyable and the instructions are very clear and easy to follow. The bottomless portafilter came with a used Classic I bought, I think it is this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EQ2SJW8/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_0.LjFb5TVWTVS

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## AnaDuarte

That does appear to be the one, @ChilledMatt. Thank you much! Enjoy your new set-up!


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## Lawman

Hi I've been using mine for a couple of years now with no problem but this morning I switched the machine on as normal and after about 10 seconds the pid appears to switch itself off as the display becomes blank.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Scott


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## MrShades

Lawman said:


> Hi I've been using mine for a couple of years now with no problem but this morning I switched the machine on as normal and after about 10 seconds the pid appears to switch itself off as the display becomes blank.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Scott


 Take the top off and check the inline fuse holder within one of the red power cables - they can work loose over time.

Usually you can just tighten it up again and apply some tape and it'll be good - other times, as they become too loose, the resistance in the fuse holder becomes higher and the current increases causing the fuse to blow. Either way the fix should be pretty easy. We don't use use twist together fuse holders today as no matter what we did to try and stop it, the vibration of the Classic would always - eventually - cause this to happen now and again.

PM me if I can help further.


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## Lawman

Thanks MrShades. Loose fuse connection.

new tape applied and now impatiently awaiting coffee.

Thanks again.

Scott


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## AJefferys

Ordered the PID and Low profile drip tray today! Looking forward to this as have been reading for way too long!


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## colm1989

Out of curiosity, do you know if this will work with a gaggia coffee deluxe?


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## Vikili

Hallo, I am thinking of PID and OPV upgrade of my GC. My GC has 1200W. I read that others have 1300W and more. Is it a problem or it just take a little more time to heat up?


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## Vikili

Question about power consumption with PID: My GC has no saving mode and with PID would it be even unpossible. So is it better to turn it on and off 3-4 times a day or let it run all day long? I don't think about wasting time, just about money saving and eventually with the saving of the device.

Thank you for your answers.


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## Nightrider_1uk

Vikili said:


> Hallo, I am thinking of PID and OPV upgrade of my GC. My GC has 1200W. I read that others have 1300W and more. Is it a problem or it just take a little more time to heat up?
> 
> View attachment 46524


 Just take a bit longer to heat up.


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## Nightrider_1uk

Vikili said:


> Question about power consumption with PID: My GC has no saving mode and with PID would it be even unpossible. So is it better to turn it on and off 3-4 times a day or let it run all day long? I don't think about wasting time, just about money saving and eventually with the saving of the device.
> 
> Thank you for your answers.


 I use a timer plug with mine so it turns on and off twice a day. The PID remembers the settings so it's not a problem. I don't leave it on all the time to waste needles power keeping the machine up to brew temperatures.


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## Vikili

Nightrider_1uk said:


> I use a timer plug with mine so it turns on and off twice a day. The PID remembers the settings so it's not a problem. I don't leave it on all the time to waste needles power keeping the machine up to brew temperatures.


 Thanks for answer. I will try to write a message to MrShades to discuss what kind of upgrate could I buy from him.


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## MrShades

Vikili said:


> Thanks for answer. I will try to write a message to MrShades to discuss what kind of upgrate could I buy from him.


 Just check our website at https://www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk

Our "pre-2018" PID kit will work fine on your machine.

I doubt your machine has a suitable pump mounted OPV for the OPV spring mods - but open it up and check what the pump looks like and compare it to gallery photos on the OPV kit product page.


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## javatonic

Hey all,

Am enjoying my MrShades PID - together with the OPV mod I'm getting such an improvement in my espresso!

Before the changes, I could never get a balanced or nice tasting shot from one of my single O beans, in particular. It was always either sour or bitter. Now - beautifully balanced, with fruity flavours. Sweetness. A different result completely.

The only area I need more work on post-PID-install is my steam. While I drink black coffee, my wife prefers flat whites and lattes, so I want to get this right again. Also, I enjoy the pursuit of decent milk art 

Prior to the PID I was doing the 'steam hack' on my Gaggia. Starting steam around 30 seconds after flicking the switch - before the light came on. That gave me great steam pressure all the way through.

Now, I have the steam temp set to 137C, and the lower trigger to 136.9 - as per the manual.

What I'm finding is the steam temp heads up pretty quickly from the brew temp and, even if I start shortly after around 120C, the temp still rides up past 137 and overshoots and the element cuts out while I'm still steaming. Temp does start to fall again during the steaming but it's too late by then and pressure is reduced.

I've also tried allowing it to hit 137C before I start - doing a quick purge to release any condensation, and extra heat but, again, I lose steam power during the process.

So, I'm guessing I might need to change my PID variables - maybe the temp is racing up too quickly and overshooting to much to allow me to 'get ahead' of the temp increase.

Note, I'm presently using the second set of values in the manual, which I find terrific for brew temp stability.

Autotune didn't give me great results for brew.

What is everyone else who has a Mr Shades PID fitted doing to get great steam throughout start to finish of their milk?

Thank you!


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## MrShades

javatonic said:


> Hey all,
> Am enjoying my MrShades PID - together with the OPV mod I'm getting such an improvement in my espresso!
> Before the changes, I could never get a balanced or nice tasting shot from one of my single O beans, in particular. It was always either sour or bitter. Now - beautifully balanced, with fruity flavours. Sweetness. A different result completely.
> The only area I need more work on post-PID-install is my steam. While I drink black coffee, my wife prefers flat whites and lattes, so I want to get this right again. Also, I enjoy the pursuit of decent milk art
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prior to the PID I was doing the 'steam hack' on my Gaggia. Starting steam around 30 seconds after flicking the switch - before the light came on. That gave me great steam pressure all the way through.
> Now, I have the steam temp set to 137C, and the lower trigger to 136.9 - as per the manual.
> What I'm finding is the steam temp heads up pretty quickly from the brew temp and, even if I start shortly after around 120C, the temp still rides up past 137 and overshoots and the element cuts out while I'm still steaming. Temp does start to fall again during the steaming but it's too late by then and pressure is reduced.
> I've also tried allowing it to hit 137C before I start - doing a quick purge to release any condensation, and extra heat but, again, I lose steam power during the process.
> So, I'm guessing I might need to change my PID variables - maybe the temp is racing up too quickly and overshooting to much to allow me to 'get ahead' of the temp increase.
> Note, I'm presently using the second set of values in the manual, which I find terrific for brew temp stability.
> Autotune didn't give me great results for brew.
> What is everyone else who has a Mr Shades PID fitted doing to get great steam throughout start to finish of their milk?
> Thank you!


2nd set of PID values are my preferred ones too!

If you want to improve the steam further then just increase the steam temps - add 10c to both steam temps and see how that goes.

Glad you're enjoying it though - PID control does totally transform a Classic!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## javatonic

MrShades said:


> If you want to improve the steam further then just increase the steam temps - add 10c to both steam temps and see how that goes.


Is the -8degrees offset set for brew applicable to the steam alarm settings - or are those temps the actual temps the boiler goes to?

With those higher temp settings do you usually start steaming before that temp is reached or allow it to hit those highs and then purge and begin?

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrShades

Offset applies to everything - start steaming once the boiler gets to about 130

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bobd

I think I know the answer to this question but wanted to check before pulling the trigger. On the 2019 classics, are there any issues with using the pid kit given the auto-off timer?

I can see the slight inconvenience of it, just as things get warm and stable it turns off and needs to be turned back on. I don't mind that too much as I'll usually be in the kitchen anyway so can turn it back on.

What I'd like to know though is will the turning off reset anything about the pid's warm-up routine? I assume no because it'll react to the boiler's temperature which will probably not drop that much before I turn the machine back on but would be good to get confirmation from someone who understands the inner workings of it better than I do!

I also realise there are ways to disable the auto-off but I'd like to keep the modding to a minimum (opv + pid) and have the added peace of mind that I won't accidentally leave it on all day.


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## Loic

Hello,

I am thinking about upgrading my Gaggia Classic. How do I order your PID?

All the best,

Loïc

Edit: just found your website! 🙂


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## Flamingo

Sounds this will solve the problems I've been having with shot inconsistency - will be placing my order soon!


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## allikat

Just fitted it with the brew side only so far. Very impressed. The kit is clear and as close to idiot proof as is possible without the universe inventing a new improved idiot. My only issue is there wasn't enough of the wire tidy strip. I'll buy some extra locally.

I went with the hinge fitting too, and used the spare space in the grommet freed up by only using the brew side to use the AC side of the PID as a junction box and added some LED lighting as well.


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## javatonic

allikat said:


> Just fitted it with the brew side only so far.


Well done, mate. I do recommend doing the full mod to include the steam control, as it does improve steam pressure given you have control over its temp, too.

PS. Don't temp me to open it up again and install LED lighting...









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## allikat

javatonic said:


> Well done, mate. I do recommend doing the full mod to include the steam control, as it does improve steam pressure given you have control over its temp, too.
> 
> PS. Don't temp me to open it up again and install LED lighting...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I've steamed once in about 2 years of owning an espresso machine...

And Fleabay has water resistant LED drivers and waterproof LED strip, which is what I used for the job. We shall see how well they last inside the steam bath.


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## javatonic

allikat said:


> I've steamed once in about 2 years of owning an espresso machine...


Fair enough! I'm black coffee only, too, but my wife is a flat white girl.  I do enjoy pouring milk art.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chriss29

allikat said:


> I've steamed once in about 2 years of owning an espresso machine...
> And Fleabay has water resistant LED drivers and waterproof LED strip, which is what I used for the job. We shall see how well they last inside the steam bath.


I would love LEDs on my Baby Class, was it straightforward @allikat ; ? My spare machine is open at the moment so maybe a good time to have a go 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## allikat

With the aid of Mr. Shade's fine guide in where to pick up some mains inside the machine, and some soldering, yes it was. I just got a small waterproof driver, hooked that to the mains on the PID, ran some wire out a convenient gap in the case to some waterproof LED strip which I placed as far back on the underside of the brew area as I could.

I'm reasonably sure the LEDs won't last forever, waterproof strip has a lot of issues with heat, and stuck to a casing that'll hit 80c won't help, but at least it won't ever get much hotter than that. Reminds me of a little poem:

I burn my candle at both ends, it will not last the night. But oh my foes, and oh my friends, it gives a lovely light.


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## Chriss29

Thanks @allikat ;another reason for me to invest in Mr Shades PID then 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Deegee

Spent the afternoon fitting a @MrShades PID kit that Mrs Gee bought me as a Crimbo present, it's all in and done and I'm currently running the Autotune so I can caffeinate myself properly in the morning!

I'll be really interested to see the difference, as I'm 70% of the way through a kilo of Rave No4 that I was getting good results out of just temp surfing, has anyone used those beans and got a good temperature to set the PID at?

I'm hoping my upgraditis demon has been mollified for a while now.....


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## Chriss29

Deegee said:


> Spent the afternoon fitting a @MrShades PID kit that Mrs Gee bought me as a Crimbo present, it's all in and done and I'm currently running the Autotune so I can caffeinate myself properly in the morning!
> I'll be really interested to see the difference, as I'm 70% of the way through a kilo of Rave No4 that I was getting good results out of just temp surfing, has anyone used those beans and got a good temperature to set the PID at?
> I'm hoping my upgraditis demon has been mollified for a while now.....


In the same predicament as you @Deegee ;! Has Mr.Shades quenched your thirst for an upgrade?

Not pressed go on the pid kit yet myself but close!


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## Deegee

Not sure my thirst for an upgrade permanently slaked, but it's definitely been quenched for now! 😉

There's a peculiar satisfaction in looking at the boiler temp being accurately shown and not varying more than 0.1°C just waiting for you to come and make a coffee and not having to guess what the temp might be at any point in the process, tbh that knowledge alone is worth the entry price to someone like me with an unhealthy allocation of OCD.

I've got to play with the temperature a bit to find the sweet spot on my current beans, but after good results today, I'm experimenting with Ristrettos tomorrow morning, fingers crossed!


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## Chriss29

Deegee said:


> Not sure my thirst for an upgrade permanently slaked, but it's definitely been quenched for now!
> There's a peculiar satisfaction in looking at the boiler temp being accurately shown and not varying more than 0.1°C just waiting for you to come and make a coffee and not having to guess what the temp might be at any point in the process, tbh that knowledge alone is worth the entry price to someone like me with an unhealthy allocation of OCD.
> I've got to play with the temperature a bit to find the sweet spot on my current beans, but after good results today, I'm experimenting with Ristrettos tomorrow morning, fingers crossed!


Thanks for the update! I'll do more research first I think and in that time maybe a better machine overall will come up for sale on the forum


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## Deegee

I played around with the temp settings and pulled a series of ristrettos this morning, all very sweet and drinkable, 92°-94° at 0.5° steps, I'm now properly over-caffeinated, but found 92/92.5 were the sweetest and most syrupy I tried, that's using Rave no4 @ 20:22. Not sure if that helps anyone, but it's nice to have the facility to play with temperature after years of guessing.


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## MrShades

Just FYI, we're out of stock of the PID kits for about a week - but if anyone is waiting then please sign up for stock notifications on the PID product pages and we'll email you when we have plenty more available. Head here to start with MrShades PID kits

At least it gives me some breathing space, so that I can do some updates to the Classic Pro manual - so a new version of the manual will be out later this week, with particular focus on the changes required to accommodate the recent Gaggia change in filler funnel design... which was originally just for the US RI9380 model, but now also seems to be on the very new RI9480 UK/EU model also (it's shiny black rather than matt black). I've also put more info in the "Troubleshooting" section.


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## Richard UK

Oli986 said:


> All set up and working! I took inspiration from the other guys and went for the blackout look.
> Really well put together kit and instructions.
> Thanks Mr Shades (Adrian)
> <img alt="20200623_230031.thumb.jpg.df1c331da4a71c6d506e79d9b6ab8ee1.jpg" data-fileid="41733" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_06/20200623_230031.thumb.jpg.df1c331da4a71c6d506e79d9b6ab8ee1.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">
> <img alt="20200623_225942.thumb.jpg.6c8eb64ba945c855d20e5ef8a9e2670e.jpg" data-fileid="41734" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_06/20200623_225942.thumb.jpg.6c8eb64ba945c855d20e5ef8a9e2670e.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


This looks amazing! Would you mind telling me where you got the swivel bracket from please? I've just ordered the black PID kit from Mr Shades and I plan on mounting it exactly like you have done, it looks so good.


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## Argonaut

MrShades said:


> A bit of an update on my PID kit that I've recently been working on.
> 
> Whilst I'm keeping the current kit alive and kicking, and the full details of it are still here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27931-MrShades-Gaggia-Classic-PID-Kit-Complete-PID-kit-with-full-guide-%A389
> 
> I've also been working on a kit that uses a PID controller that looks almost identical to the Auber one. It's 1/32DIN (rather than 1/16DIN for the Rex C100) and therefore half the size. It's half the size as it only has one display (rather than the two displays on the 1/16DIN Rex C100).
> 
> It's obviously much smaller, and this kit comes with a new aluminium box - that is also a two-part box (Auber seem to use an extruded single piece box, which you can't simply assemble around the controller once you've wired it up). As with the other kit, there's a cut-out in the front (around 44mm x 22mm) and a rubber grommeted hole in the rear.
> 
> As with the normal kit, all the SSRs and wires and everything else come with it - and they're all the same as the original kit.
> 
> Hence there's now two options:
> 
> 1. The original 1/16 DIN kit, with dual display - being a larger unit, with larger enclosure
> 
> 2. This new 1/32 DIN kit, with single (dual purpose) display - being a smaller unit, with smaller enclosure
> 
> As with everything, when it's smaller it's also more expensive (which is true for the PID controller and the aluminium enclosure) so this 1/32 DIN version is £5 more than the 1/16 DIN version - so it's £94 shipped to the UK.
> 
> Any questions, please just ask - and I have these in stock now and if you'd like one then please just PM me.
> 
> Some pics of the kit and controller:
> 
> (It was cold in the workshop, and hadn't warmed up - so it's showing 14C. Obviously normally it would show the brew temp at around 93C)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A couple of pics to allow you to see the difference between the 1/16 DIN (larger, dual display) and 1/32 DIN (this one, smaller and single display) versions:
> 
> 
> 
> (Other than the fact that it doesn't say "Auber" on the front, if you can see any difference between this PID and the Auber one then let me know!)
> 
> 
> 
> For the avoidance of doubt, and to prevent any questions - Whilst this 1/32DIN controller LOOKS like the Auber one, and many (if not all) the menu options are the same - it does NOT have the hidden Auber menus, and it does NOT provide preinfusion or any of the fancy Auber only functions. It provides materially the same functionality as the Rex C100 and controls brew and steam temp.
> 
> I hope you like it!
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> MrShades


 Interested in this . Your post does not show any pictures. .... text says they should be there. Is thread broken, or do they not show on iPad


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## Zatogato

Argonaut said:


> Interested in this . Your post does not show any pictures. .... text says they should be there. Is thread broken, or do they not show on iPad


 I think the post you're quoting is from 2016 so possibly images are broken.

Check out the current products here: https://www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk/pid-kits


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## ting_tang

Hi!

How is the recommended offset was calculated?

I had an issue to dial in a medium blend (normally drink a light roast). I went down up to 90degrees (with -8C offset, so sensor in real was getting 98C), 16in 32 out in 24-25 seconds, and couldn't remove a burnt bitterness.

So I made some unsafe measurement (DISCLAIMER: I don't recommend this way. DO NOT DO THIS ON YOUR OWN, if you don't know what you are doing, it's dangerous. I have some electricity knowledge, and I have set all safety measurements). I removed the steam valve, set the PID to 80C (didn't want boiling water inside the boiler) and turned on machine, and put digital thermometer into the boiler. Gave it a plenty time to heat (20-30mins). I got difference 13-14C (PID showing 80-81C when thermometer had 94-95).So if we remove offset parameter, difference in temperature between the sensor and water was ~5 degrees C.

I finally was able to dial in coffee at 88C (-8C offset, 16in 32 out in 26-27seconds). So, if I set offset at 4C, I will have 92 on PID which looks like the 'recommended' temperature. AFAIK there is some difference in temperature of water boiling between closed system and open, I will borrow IR camera from my friend in a few days, to see the real temperature coming out from the grouphead, but doubt that it will help much, as during the water flow temperature drops quite fast. Just wondering at the moment is something wrong with an offset, or it's just beans.

Thank you!


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## ting_tang

Just an update. You need always follow how does it taste for you, but to be able to use some roasters recommendations as a starter point and to use offset functionality of the PID properly, I decided to calibrate my offset more accurate. My friend described cons of IR camera to measure the temperature of water stream(reflection coefficients etc), and recommended to use thermocouple with a multimeter. Below my measurements with my Gaggia 2014.

I putted the thermocouple into the one of the shower screen's hole, and fixed with the shower plate, to get the hottest temperature coming out before it cools down, tried with the same offset a multiple times and with different temperature. I recorded a video for the each tries, to get the max temperature from thermocouple before it goes down.

With -8.0C offset I got ~ +2.5C differences.









With 0 offset -3.6C.









I set the offset -4.5 as average and got this result. So for a medium roast I'm using 92ish degrees at the moment.


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## rontheotherhand

Hello

I was carrying out some maintenance on my Mr Shades pidded GC yesterday and, after putting the machine back together, I found the PID wouldn't turn on - it only works when the steam button is switched on.

Checked all the wires and I can't see anything out of the ordinary.

Has anyone experienced this before?

I swapped out the brew ssr for a new one with no luck so that can be ruled out. Its not the fuse switch as power is going to the PID when in steam mode.

Could this be a faulty switch bank or is this more likely to be cable issue?

Any suggestions or ideas would be appreciated as I've just finished a dimmer switch mod / gauge and am dying to test it out!


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