# Make me see sense!! Please



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

*What shall I do?*​
Keep the Classic414.81%Buy a Cherub (£650)311.11%Buy a Brewtus (£1100)2074.07%


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Right I would appreciate any feedback/comment on my current predicament.

I currently have a gaggia classic and have recently upgraded my MC2 to a MSJ and it has made such a difference to my shots.

Now the reality is I have still not fully mastered the basics and have only been using the gaggia for a couple of month and will probably suit my requirements for sometime however!! Christmas is almost upon us and I need to for something and if I dont upgrade now the likely hood is I may not be able to till this time next year so as I see it three options

1. Stay with the Gaggia and master it

2. Get a Cherub as are great value and will give me tons of steam to keep Mrs Kikapu in milky drinks to soften the blow!

3. Get a Brewtus because thats it game over itch scratched for good

The sensible option is 1 but who want to be sensible!!?? Now I can just about at a pinch go for the vibe Brewtus but it is like £550 more than a cherub which is not small change. So my head say cherub??

I am sure someone will suggest options 4, 5 & 6

Lastly Mrs Kikapu may Vito this anyway when she realises how much bigger than the classic they are plus am sure she said something at the weekend about not getting any more coffee stuff but cant be sure as I wasnt listening?


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

First world problems!!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

3- buy what you really want , I suspect it will cure all your itches, for a long time ,think of money on the machine as spread out over 2-5 years . I gurantee if you buy a cherub you will read posts and look at the brewtus or a machine of similar functionality and upgrade again. Why because you really want the brewtus . Admit it ........

With a machine like that you can concentrate on your technique , knowing that you have a temp table , temp alterable , extraction , and if it sucks . It's your grind or your distribution or you .....

If you want other suggestions what's you absolute max budget ...but alot of people in the pump world say best bang for you buck is the brewt ....


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Buy cheap , buy twice


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Buy cheap , buy twice


Slightly more eloquently put and succinct than me , but yes ......


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You will be at coffee nirvana quicker on the better machine .


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Buy cheap , buy twice


But in this case its buyer cheaper, buy twice!









If I buy a cherub I am sure I will upgrade at a later date but certainly eaiser to convince the wife that I should spend 650 after just a couple of months on the classic


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kikapu said:


> But in this case its buyer cheaper, buy twice!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you buy the cherub new, you will dump value on it when you resell it , how much depends on how long you keep it for .

Stop debating by the brewtus ....


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Cherubs have their fanbase


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Simply put as Gary and Martin have said, you know what you really want and it's a Brewtus so even if you bought a Cherub this will niggle away at you until you sell the Cherub losing money in the process and buy a Brewtus so in the long run it's actually cheaper to just go straight to Brewtus, do not pass Go, do not lose the £200 or so on a Cherub etc. A Brewtus will finally silence that itch until you get a new one that starts whispering better grinder and L1 to you.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Cheers guys wasn't expecting it to be quite so one sided! Where are all the cherub owners when you need them!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It's not that I think the cherubs are bad , it's just I think you know what you really want , and it's a stepping stone to a brewtus or DB machine for you .


----------



## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Well I have a Cherub and upgraded from a Classic like you have. I'd had the classic for 8 years but hadn't really bothered with the temp surfing etc as wasn't as clued up at the time from reading here.

It was a massive step up for me and the main reason I upgraded was to have better overall steaming capacity. I also upgraded the grinder from a Dualit Burr (no mods) to a Quamar M80E.

I like the idea of the Brewtus and given the money I would go for it but in all honesty as a)primarily a flat white drinker and b)not having the most developed palate I'm not sure I could justify the additional expense to have a stable set temp for the espresso brewing as I'm not 100% convinced I could tell the difference in a blind taste test of espressos at different temps.

Maybe the forum day will enlighten me and I'll discover it's just my crap technique that makes most espressos roughly the same chez moi but depends on your personal views.

Best bet is to find someone local to try both out and see what you think seeing them in action f possible.


----------



## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

agree with boots and gary.

no point buying something that you dont 100% want only to lose money further down the line when you eventually buy what you really wanted in the first place!

1100 over 5 years is only 60p a day anyway







and im sure there will be some residual value on a 5 yr old heavily used brewtus!


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

I think Mrs Kikapu is gonna give me a kicking!!??


----------



## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

surprise her..... im sure she will love it


----------



## bazschmaz (Sep 2, 2013)

I'll buck the trend. Keep the classic.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

bazschmaz said:


> I'll buck the trend. Keep the classic.


Ah it's Christmas , everyone need a good pressie at Christmas , if he doesn't get a new machine it will be socks and a jumper.....


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ah it's Christmas , everyone need a good pressie at Christmas , if he doesn't get a new machine it will be socks and a jumper.....


I need socks and a jumper though!!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kikapu said:


> I need socks and a jumper though!!


You may NEED socks a a jumper , but you WANT a new machine,


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I went from a Classic to an Oscar and it just made the itch worse really, going to get a Brewtus as a Christmas present to myself next month.


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I asked a similar question which was not machine specific and was advised that the improvements in shots up the price scale would be a diminishing return and the only real difference would be seen in a £2000+ machine when compared to something like a Cherub

I tried a number of pump machines at the BB day and, styling excepted, there wasnt a deal to choose between them.

I own a Cherub currently so can speak objectively about the machine. It does everything that I need - more steam than you'll ever need and it will pull shots all day long. It isnt the prettiest of machines so if styling is important, spend the extra money. It was a big step up from my original Francis Francis X1

As you suggest I would go with option 4 - buy a Cherub, sell the SJ and change the grinder. Now this is rich coming from someone who said they wouldnt change their grinder again but I've gone from bitter / flat flavour profile (MC2) to no harshness / lots of flavours (Quamar) to coffee heaven (mythos)

And heres the real contradiction. At some point I know that I'll be selling the Cherub and buying something lever based (currently an L1). Why ? Currently not for taste. On the whole, not for aesthetics. Mainly because it appeals to the engineer in me


----------



## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

4 ; take the wife and let her choose .I did exactly that .


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

My wife would choose the classic for sure!!

Andrew I am not changing my grinder!! I only got it Saturday!! I would get lynched more for that than getting the Brewtus! But I do appreciate the feedback on the Cherub


----------



## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

get an r58????


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Was only messing with that one really

I had a bit of explaining / stretching of the truth to get the mythos in but I've had the Quamar longer than a week !

This is the issue / challenge for any hobby for someone who is even mildly obsessive. The upgrades just keep on coming

Arrgghhhh !! Contradiction number two coming up

I think I now agree with the buy cheap, buy twice statement


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> get an r58????


Youve just increased my budget by £600!


----------



## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

I must be lucky, my wife wanted the Brewtus made a difference seeing it alongside large 2 group machines.


----------



## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

If you can go to Bella Barista and look at a number of different machines and try them before you buy. You will get excellent service and advice but will almost certainly spend more money than you expect. I ended up with a Duetto!

Paul


----------



## Shady (Jan 1, 2013)

Lever lever lever. Itch well and truly scratched ?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## Shady (Jan 1, 2013)

I went from a Sylvia to a rocket to an izzo pompei 2 group lever in the space of 7 or so months - never looked back. I love to quietness of the lever and the feeling of literally pulling my own shots.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


----------



## skenno (Oct 14, 2012)

I waited til I could get a Rocket, and I'm glad I did. Also, I wouldn't worry about mastering the classic before moving on. I think the techniques are very different between that and a more powerful machine. I'd finally mastered getting good microform on the classic and still haven't been able to consistently replicate it on my Rocket, despite having had it for longer now!


----------



## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

If you want the Brewtus buy It, because if you don't buy It this time, you'll get It next time.

Spend a bit more to save some money in the long term.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Basically buy once, cry once.


----------



## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

Get the Brewtus. I bought the L1 to avoid getting something I'd consider intermediate and want to upgrade again. If you are putting the Brewtus at the top of your list and can afford it, then do. I personally wouldn't bother buying anything between the Brewtus and the L1, as the Brewtus offers so much for a totally reasonable price.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Well I am not sure I would ever want an L1 (give it a few more weeks! ) and certainly can justify the cost at this point. Thinking it has to be yhe brewtus or the classic


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It's a tricky one.

I'm looking to upgrade in the near future. I suppose depends on what coffee path you're treading and how far your looking go (a bit zen for a Thursday night).

Good advice on buying the machine you're after, as you'll always feel a bit short changed.

Although I suppose it also boils down to what you can afford. If it's a bit more then it might be worth saving for a few more months.

Trying out the machines you're after is a good option to see if it works for you and if you can taste / appreciate the difference.


----------



## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

I think either a Cherub or a Brewtus will be a significant upgrade from the Classic - the difference between the Classic and the either of those will be much greater than the difference between a Cherub and a Brewtus.

But, admit it, what you really want is an L1.


----------



## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Don't do what I have done on occasions too numerous to mention and follow your head.

But what you really want then you won't have any of those "if only" moments!

DB

(Currently struggling with the new car spec'ed as I really want it coming out at over £45k!!)


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just tell her after you have done it...the bad mood can only last so long. Then lie about the cost like i usually do. Tell her you won it in a raffle.

This sounds to me, more like your uncertainty mate. I am sure your wife will go along with you as long as you justify it. Why not sit her down, and explain you have the bug. you are upgrading your coffee machine, but what would she do under the circumstances. Accept a halfway house in the Cherub, or go full distance. Do not mention the cost to nher, and when she says please yourself, get the rotary pump expobar and be done with it!


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Tell her you won it in a raffle.


That would never happen !


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

working dog said:


> That would never happen !


You might think that, but I could not possibly comment

Francis Urqhuart, House of cards!


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Well I think I do need to upgrade as finding it a pain with steaming the milk after a shot having to wait 30 seconds to start steaming then steaming for 20-30 second, faff around with milk then pour . so its about 2 minutes from the shot has finished to being able to serve up a milky drink which I think is an issue.

I am sure either a cherub, or Brewtus will be a massive step up and yes if I get a Brewtus I may be satisfied but it is still £500 more which is making my head think that might be a bit too selfish given I have just bought a grinder too!

I said it yesterday but I realise this is well and truly a first world problem and I am in a lucky position to be in to even be having this discussion!!


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Just buy the Brewtus and have done with it, it's only money. I don't know your financial status but given that your considering the Brewtus at all suggests to me that it's within your budget to get one ? Go on now, just buy it! And I want to see loads of pics to.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kikapu said:


> Well I think I do need to upgrade as finding it a pain with steaming the milk after a shot having to wait 30 seconds to start steaming then steaming for 20-30 second, faff around with milk then pour . so its about 2 minutes from the shot has finished to being able to serve up a milky drink which I think is an issue.
> 
> I am sure either a cherub, or Brewtus will be a massive step up and yes if I get a Brewtus I may be satisfied but it is still £500 more which is making my head think that might be a bit too selfish given I have just bought a grinder too!
> 
> I said it yesterday but I realise this is well and truly a first world problem and I am in a lucky position to be in to even be having this discussion!!


I really suggest going to try the brewtus and cherub either at a supplier or a forum members place. Then at least you know what you get for your money and whether it is worth it you up .

This poll is always going to come out on top with the brewtus , as we ( forum members) mostly like to live vicariously through other people's shiny purchases and new machines people buy ......


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Well the Brewt will happily steam whilst you pull the shot , it will also bang out shot after shot after shot and recover quickly, temp staying solid and reliable.


----------



## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Just tell her after you have done it...the bad mood can only last so long. Then lie about the cost like i usually do. Tell her you won it in a raffle.
> 
> This sounds to me, more like your uncertainty mate. I am sure your wife will go along with you as long as you justify it. Why not sit her down, and explain you have the bug. you are upgrading your coffee machine, but what would she do under the circumstances. Accept a halfway house in the Cherub, or go full distance. Do not mention the cost to her, and when she says please yourself, get the rotary pump expobar and be done with it!


Best advice here. I recently upgraded from a pidded Silvia to a Casadio Dafne hx machine and while I am really happy with the hx I would still like to upgrade to a dual boiler at some point. And same as dfk41 I always tell my wife after I made the purchase and never the actual price paid. Yes she will be grumpy for a few hours but it will go. And yes definitely upgrade from a Classic if you can afford it. I know it gets a lot of love here but I have owned a Classic and a Silvia and the difference from those to my new hx is just enormous, you will be blown away by the quality of your shots.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Cheers guy really helpful if not to my bank balance!! Looks like it has to be an upgrade will keep you guys informed with what happens!!


----------



## CoffeeDiva (May 9, 2013)

kikapu said:


> Cheers guy really helpful if not to my bank balance!!


PMSL now you knew that before you asked the question.







Dangerous on here to ask questions . . .


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CoffeeDiva said:


> PMSL now you knew that before you asked the question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah like we are a sensible adult group of people with rational spending patterns in this site ....


----------



## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

Voted Brewtus - buy what you want!


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Just a quick question any reason to get the r58 over the brewtus (budget creap) apart from rotary pump option to plumb (which I wont use for years if ever)??


----------



## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

detachable pid? more temp stability, i think bigger boilers and i personally think better aesthetics


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Detachable PID as a pro or con? PITA if you ask me.

R58

steam boiler 1.7 l

brew boiler 0.58L

1400w ELEMENTS

2.5 LITRE TANK

DRIP TRAY SMALL

BREWTUS

Steam boiler 1.5L

Brew Boiler 1.5L

1200w elements

3 litre tank

drip tray large

Brewtus can be obtained with Rotary plumbed in options


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Thanks guys I think the r58 looks slight ly better but not 600£ better


----------



## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

i would just go for it if you can, there will be the niggling doubt if you get a brewtus that you really want an r58!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Looking at Gary s spec match up , there doesn't seem to be on the surface £600 worth of difference. You are though paying for the slightly more designed look and the brand aspect of a rocket also . It's a big chunk of money difference wise . Think of the grinder you could get with a spare £600. You'd probably get more difference in the the cup spending the cash on a huge burr monster .....

Not having tried one against the other I don't know if there is a taste difference in the cup or not , part of me thinks there is an element to owning a rocket the look of them versus what some people consider the functional look of a brewtus . What do I know I have a cherub with a stick ....


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

taste difference between brewtus and r58 would be microscopic , I think the difference would be better invested in a grinder where taste differences can be more more easily identified


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

& lets face it, if you got an r58 you'd only wished you'd saved a little longer and got a GS3


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> & lets face it, if you got an r58 you'd only wished you'd saved a little longer and got a GS3


If you get the gs3 , you might as well get a one group slayer ....









Agree with you though on spending the cash on a grinder....


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Has to stop somewhere doesnt it. Diminishing return


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Yeah just wanted to make sure


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Its ordered!!


----------



## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

the r58???????????


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Nah the brewtus couldn't justify the extra cost of r58 and least means I can still afford to buy the wife a Christmas present


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kikapu said:


> Nah the brewtus couldn't justify the extra cost of r58 and least means I can still afford to buy the wife a Christmas present


Enjoy , will make your coffee experience easier and more pleasurable , and more importantly taste better. Few people on here for advice when you get it also ,


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

kikapu said:


> Nah the brewtus couldn't justify the extra cost of r58 and least means I can still afford to buy the wife a Christmas present


What grinder did you buy her for her xmas present with the left over £600 then


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Charliej said:


> What grinder did you buy her for her xmas present with the left over £600 then


I thought this year I might actually buy her something she wanted!!


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Enjoy , will make your coffee experience easier and more pleasurable , and more importantly taste better. Few people on here for advice when you get it also ,


Yeah looking forward to seeing the difference! Arriving Friday


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Friday, you lucky get. I've got another ten days or so to wait for mine.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Friday, you lucky get. I've got another ten days or so to wait for mine.


10 days will fly (not)


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Yours is special though


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

How come such a long wait for yours Jeebsy?


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

As Santa says, mine is special


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> As Santa says, mine is special


Aaah a bit of coffeechap magic dust!!??


----------

