# Help needed - Lelit Elizabeth



## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Guys, i picked up the Northampton (classifieds) Lizzie this morning - cancelled my original Amazon DE order when i saw the ad - and already have a problem! When pulling my first shot (with steam preinfusion) the RCD tripped shortly after the (10sec) preinfusion. Also, the machine pump sounded rather nosiy! I have a video, which i will try to edit and post, but this is all rather worrying. Any ideas? @MediumRoastSteam@DavecUK


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> Guys, i picked up the Northampton (classifieds) Lizzie this morning - cancelled my original Amazon DE order when i saw the ad - and already have a problem! When pulling my first shot (with steam preinfusion) the RCD tripped shortly after the (10sec) preinfusion. Also, the machine pump sounded rather nosiy! I have a video, which i will try to edit and post, but this is all rather worrying. Any ideas? @MediumRoastSteam@DavecUK


 Did you buy the machine which was in the classifieds here? If so, most likely it was bought from Bella Barista, and, if that's the case, it's under warranty.

was the machine sold as in a working machine?

best way to upload a video is via YouTube, unlisted, ad you just link the video here.

does it trip the RCD if you don't use pre-infusion?

usually when that happens is because something got wet inside the machine.

Maybe a hose disconnected in transit? Did you open the top of the machine to check for leaks?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Did anything get wet when it was in transport?


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Thanks, guys. Not very good with videos...just trying to sort that now.

@Cuprajake, it was raining, but i got in the car very quickly. So i doubt that's it. I was also extremely careful with the transport.

@MediumRoastSteam, yes i bought the one on here. It is in warranty, but i'm just really surprised by this as the seller didn't indicate any problems (and i have no reason to doubt him).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Pop the vid up to YouTube as unlisted, then post the link here. If both boilers were on when RCD tripped, not likely to be heating element... possibly some water got somwhere during transport.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

The video i had didn't really show much, so i've been trying to do a new one. Seemed to be fine without preinfusion...then ran a flush with the blind basket and again it tripped the RCD when pump reached about 10 bar. Now, it trips *immediately* when i press button 1 or 2. However, hot water button is fine.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@europa first (and before anything else)...was the machine originally supplied by Bella Barista?


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)




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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @europa first (and before anything else)...was the machine originally supplied by Bella Barista?


 yes, and the seller provided the invoice.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Id put money on something being wet from transport.

Un plug the machine and have a look inside, for anything obvious.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Leave the machine overnight in a warm place and if you still have problems, contact them first for advice.... especially before doing anything like removing the case.

Logically the seller would have invoked the warranty rather than sell it with a known fault.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Yeah. I bet something is leaking inside. @europa , just making sure, it only trips when you turn the pump on, but nothing happens during warm up?

And, after it trips, if you switch back on, does it stay on?


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

no sign of water anywhere inside.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yeah. I bet something is leaking inside. @europa , just making sure, it only trips when you turn the pump on, but nothing happens during warm up?
> 
> And, after it trips, if you switch back on, does it stay on?


 yes, during warm up its absolutely fine. and, yes, it stays on.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Look again


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> Leave the machine overnight in a warm place and if you still have problems, contact them first for advice.... especially before doing anything like removing the case.
> 
> Logically the seller would have invoked the warranty rather than sell it with a known fault.


 I had already taken off the top to photograph the inside, but will do as you suggest. Doesn't the seller have to transfer the warranty first?


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> Look again
> 
> View attachment 60564


 how you spotted that I will never know! thank you.

So, obv. q. is what do i do now?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@europa



> how you spotted that I will never know! thank you.







Obviously I will kill the problem....

Push it back on?.......let the machine dry...then enjoy


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Thank god for that - i feared it was serious! Will do as you suggest, keep my fingers x and post back tomorrow.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> Thank god for that - i feared it was serious! Will do as you suggest, keep my fingers x and post back tomorrow.


 My pet hate of that machine. The X connector. Drips right on top of the group solenoid. 🤦‍♂️

from experience here, pushing it back in is not good enough. It will disconnect again. Trust me, been there, done that.

Get yourself some cable ties from B and Q and tighten the hose against the fitting. It is not braided, so if you leave it alone, it will pop out again.

Do that on all hoses joining that fitting.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> yes, during warm up its absolutely fine. and, yes, it stays on.


 In essence as soon as the machine built up pressure, the OPV opened, and water would go towards the X fitting. A hose is disconnected, drips on top of an electric connection, short-circuits it and he RCD trips.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Right, just tested it and it no longer trips the RCD. Haven't tested a shot yet, but sth appears to still not be right: have a look at this video of a backflush. Shouldn't the pressure gauge go up to about 10 bar?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Can you run a normal shot.

Not sure if theres a hard reset for these but might be worth a try


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

> 19 minutes ago, europa said:
> 
> Right, just tested it and it no longer trips the RCD. Haven't tested a shot yet, but sth appears to still not be right: have a look at this video of a backflush. Shouldn't the pressure gauge go up to about 10 bar?


 Not when the portafilter doesn't have the time to fill properly. Just run a normal shot against the blind filter...it will go up to 9 or 10 bar, no problem. I think you can set that 2 button time to be longer than the 4 sec, have a look at my review and all the documentation links I did, as I forget now.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Just ran a normal shot... works fine! 😄


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

europa said:


> Just ran a normal shot... works fine! 😄


 and with the blind filter it's going to 11.5 bar.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> I think you can set that 2 button time to be longer than the 4 sec, have a look at my review and all the documentation links I did, as I forget now.


 Pretty sure it's set to 6 secs (as per your recs).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@europa Well just shows I must be wrong, or I only set it up to flush the group and clean with a group brush?

So many machines so hard to remember....


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Mine is definitely set to 6 secs. Strange that isn't long enough to fill the basket. 🤔


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Wow..., I'd forgotten all that


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> Mine is definitely set to 6 secs. Strange that isn't long enough to fill the basket


 That's just normal. the blind basket is quite deep. If you do another one afterwards (i.e.: do the purge for 6 seconds, and do another one) , you'll see the pressure will build up.

Alternatively, pre-fill the basket with water, lock it in place and you'll see the pressure building up 🙂


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I was going to ask if a rubber backflush disk was being used in a double basket?...my blind filter is an old one I have lying about and is quite shallow.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@DavecUK - The one that comes with the Elizabeth is quite deep. In fact, as deep as the stock basket! 🙂


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @DavecUK - The one that comes with the Elizabeth is quite deep. In fact, as deep as the stock basket! 🙂


 That would explain why it worked fine for me, as you can see on my video....I usually make it a rule to use all manufacturer supplied kit..but I have an old portafilter with the blind basket already in and that's what I used.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

Yes, i was using a standard blind basket...i assume the original one.

So that leads me to another question - i'm starting to discover the rabbit hole lol: when cleaning (using the hybrid method), should i be running several manual purges @ full pressure before activating Lelit's automatic purge?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> Yes, i was using a standard blind basket...i assume the original one.
> 
> So that leads me to another question - i'm starting to discover the rabbit hole lol: when cleaning (using the hybrid method), should i be running several manual purges @ full pressure before activating Lelit's automatic purge?


 No. Follow the instructions from Dave and you'll be fine.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> Yes, i was using a standard blind basket...i assume the original one.
> 
> So that leads me to another question - i'm starting to discover the rabbit hole lol: when cleaning (using the hybrid method), should i be running several manual purges @ full pressure before activating Lelit's automatic purge?


 I actually backflushed my machine today and thought about this. I realised that, my routine is:

- add detergent to blank basket;
- *dilute and break it up, filling the blind basket with water and using a chopstick or something to break up and stir it.
- *perform the hybrid method.

so, in essence, I pre-fill the basket with water from the group or hot water tap first time, thus adding to the pressure build on the first purge.

So, going back and correcting myself, you can do this, or if you don't, you can just do 3 purges 2 minutes apart of so (whatever Dave says in the review) the first one is the one which will fill up the basket and not much will go through the vent solenoid.

Hope that helps!

edit: saying all of the above, and re-watching your video, even though the first purge pressure is little, you do seem to have some positive pressure. That's enough to send some solution down the vent pipe right where it matters. You can actually hear, in your video, water being vented out into the drip tray. Wooooshhhh! 😊


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I actually backflushed my machine today and thought about this. I realised that, my routine is:
> 
> - add detergent to blank basket;
> - *dilute and break it up, filling the blind basket with water and using a chopstick or something to break up and stir it.
> ...


 Out of interest, how much detergent powder do you use and how often do you back flush with detergent? In Daves video, he uses two scoops; however, that seems a fair bit more than the recommended 3-5g.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

europa said:


> Out of interest, how much detergent powder do you use and how often do you back flush with detergent? In Daves video, he uses two scoops; however, that seems a fair bit more than the recommended 3-5g.


 I use 2 level scoops out of the back of a Pallo coffee tool. That weighs about 2.79, if you heap them a little it's around 3.5g


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> Out of interest, how much detergent powder do you use and how often do you back flush with detergent? In Daves video, he uses two scoops; however, that seems a fair bit more than the recommended 3-5g.


 He means 2 scoops using a Palo brush. It amounts to approx. 5g last time I checked. I've been using 2 of those scoops every 2 weeks. But it's dependent on how often you use your machine. If you do 3-4 shots a day, then backflush every week. 5-6 a day and you might consider doing so every 3 days.

edit: didn't realise Dave replied already.


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## Capo29 (Oct 21, 2021)

Done my first backflush last night. 4g of pulycafe, run 3 manual purges about 1 minute apart each. Could see the soap in the tray after the second.

After that, I left it to run the auto cycle. At the end there was still a touch of detergent in the basket so I think I'll try the prefill and mix method next time.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Capo29 - If there's still detergent, you can:

- Dump the contents of the basket in to the drip tray;
- pre-fill the basket with clean water;
- do 1 or 2 manual purges.


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

Hey Europa,

Literally just seen this thread as I haven't been on. Glad it is working ok, it was 100% fine when I sold it otherwise I would have invoked the warranty process.

Glad you are sorted


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

simplyme said:


> Hey Europa,
> 
> Literally just seen this thread as I haven't been on. Glad it is working ok, it was 100% fine when I sold it otherwise I would have invoked the warranty process.
> 
> Glad you are sorted


 Yes, all good now - must have happened during transport! One of the great things about Lizzy is how resilient she is - even water on her electrical bits doesn't phase her! 😁


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