# Hottop B vs Gene Cafe CBR-101



## stevet

Hi all

I'm new on the forums and new to home roasting. I've been reading around and narrowed a choice down to the Hottop B or Gene Cafe CBR-101. I'm reading some fairly bad reviews about the Gene Cafe being unreliable, hard to hear the crack, melting/going on fire, and so on. But it is available in the UK and seems to be sold by a few mainstream retailers.

The Hottop B looks decent and I've read good things about it but I don't know if/where I could get a 240V UK appliance from.

Can anyone advise?

Thanks!

Steve


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## johnealey

Not heard of any Gene catching fire in recent memory and I can attest to no issues with mine and I roast far more than the average would.

Not also aware of any members having issues at least since 2014 when I joined so this may be historic, relating people using 230v heaters on 240v supply with no modifications. As long as you clean them out as you should and make sure you check the dust filter (underneath) every now and again should be fine. Modifications also available which improve the roast capability from what was not bad to pretty darn good. As a learner machine its pretty good the downside for me is it's not a kilo roaster for 250-300g money 

Gene is currently available from a few UK sources, Bella Barista being one which has a cast iron warranty and a good reputation

There are a number of Hottop owners on here that may be able to give you advice on sourcing one for the UK but aren't they a bit more expensive than the Gene?

Welcome to the forum by the way, plenty of good people on here willing to help out with advice etc.

John


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## MrShades

Hottop is certainly MUCH more expensive than the Gene Cafe - and that may swing it for you.

I've never owned a Gene Cafe, but wanted to "buy once" and hence went for something that I wouldnt want to upgrade from quickly - and bought a new Hottop B a few years ago.

I simply contacted Shelly at Hottop in Taiwan (email [email protected]), paid via BACS transfer to a UK Lloyds TSB back account - and then it was shipped from a UK based agent in London. All quite quick and easy.

The Hottop is a great roaster - and works very well - though comes at a price. When I bought mine it was upwards of £800 delivered.


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## stevet

Thanks for the fast replies and advice/info, much appreciated!

Cost is a concern but it's outweighed by the view I have that you get what you pay for and that I'm after a "buy once" investment, too. One concern I do have over the Hottop B is sourcing replacement filters: I've heard that can be difficult. The Gene Cafe is all round the 'easiest' purchase from the sounds of it but I'm just a little worried that it's plastic and there have been reported issues (probably with the chaff collector part?). It's really reassuring to hear that there haven't been any issues reported by members here, though! Also, is the Hottop B better than the Hottop P?

I can check with Shelly at Hottop about costs, and then I'd at least have that to factor in. Any Gene Cafe CBR-101 owners that can offer me advice/info though, would be much appreciated too


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## DavecUK

stevet said:


> I'm reading some fairly bad reviews about the Gene Cafe being unreliable, hard to hear the crack, melting/going on fire, and so on. But it is available in the UK and seems to be sold by a few mainstream retailers.
> 
> Can anyone advise?
> 
> Steve


Well Steve UK Gene Cafe roasters all have 240V element, unless you specifically ask for a 230V because you intend to do the power control mod...which doesn't affect your warranty. There does appear to have been the odd problem in the states, but I suspect the retailers there have not gone through the process of sorting out the standard Gene offering with Korea..I have even known some seriously abused UK ones and they have not melted or caught fire, even when used for commercial roasting:rolleyes: I heard of one back to back roasting for many many kilos each day and the heating element was failing about every 3 months which was at least 250+ kg of coffee. I didn't know this at the time I was asked why the heating elements was failing so often by the retailer who was replacing under warranty. No believe it or not I was puzzled, because it was ONLY 360Kg of coffee and the heating elements should last longer than that (over 1000 hours use!!), because I know how long Korea lifed them for. it turned out each roast was ended using emergency stop and then the beans cooled outside the Gene whilst another batch was immediately started. This is something that should never be done. Did it melt..no and it had been used like this for the better part of 9 months.

So as far as the UK Gene goes (and I mean bought from a reseller who gets the right version in the UK), it's been well sorted for 7 years now and enjoys a surprisingly good reliability considering it's construction. Many forum members on here have them, but they represent only a tiny fraction of the total that have been sold in the UK. I remember doing a demo of the CBR 1200 and some people came into a workshops with me to get our beans and there was a pile of about 80 Gene Cafes, they said wow, do they sell all those in a year, I said of "course not the pile was originally double that size and they order every 3 months or so".

So don't let reliability be an issue, it's not...really it's about the type of roaster you want and you're budget..

Although if you keep your eyes peeled on the for sale section, depending on how the test of another 1kg roaster I'm doing goes, I may sell on my VERY lightly used (e.g. hardly used) Quest M3 roaster.


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## ronsil

I've been using Hottops for the past 10 years. Had a Genecafe & a Behmor.

The GC was good although I never did the DavecUK modification. This mod makes all the difference to the machine.

The Behmor. well it was a Behmor. Only ever managed to roast a max of 300 grams really successfully. Its very inconsistent with its output but it does roast OK if you are not looking for a lot of consistency. Very easy to use with very little smoke. I believe the newer model works better than the original.

I had two HTs one I purchased as a 'P' model originally but found it very frustrating in use. Although it offers profiles you can set with up to 8 sections in each profile it was very difficult in use. Repeatability being the biggest worry.

That was until I modded it to become completely computer controlled from my Macbook using 'RoastLogger' which is an excellent piece of software available for free. About 5 years ago I purchased another HT this time the 'B' model. Out of the box, although cheaper, it is so much more controllable than the 'P'.  I very soon modded that one as well so that my two Hottops are both now fully computer controlled.

Up to about 18 months ago I did alternate roasts with the two Machines usually about 2-3 kgs per week. Never a problem with repeatability or roast quality. Latterly I passed on one of my Machines to a Family member because I wished to take advantage of some of the super dark roasts now being offered by top class roasters. I now only roast & produce about 2-3 x 250 g packs per week.

I use these mostly to produce blends I like & cannot easily buy in.

Contact Shelly at the address above who will give you the latest prices. Over the past couple of years they have been keeping a small stock of HTs in London which avoids the perils of import duty & high postage. I still have a small amount of various spare parts including one or two permanent rear filters.

Hottop also now produce a fully computer controlled model themselves.

I'm now out of touch with the current prices but Shelley is a very helpful lady & will give you all the info you may need.


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## NickR

The Hottop control system has improved since I wrote this, however smoke will always be a problem.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/hottop-analogue-vs-gene-a-blow-by-blow-account


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## MrShades

Regarding the filters for the Hottop - I have about 4 or 5 of them... but have no intention of using anything other than the one that came with the machine.

Why?

Well, it was probably Ron who pointed me in the right direction - but a standard permanent steel-mesh PC fan filter (from eBay) combined with a single piece of kitchen-towel (conveniently, the filter is exactly 1/4 the size of a piece of kitchen towel) is all I ever use. You disassemble the filter that comes with the machine, and just use the plastic carcass of it to hold the mesh/paper filter combo. Actually, as the filters tend to discolour towards the upper top, I tend to use a single mesh filter/kitchen-towel for four consecutive roasts (simply removing the mesh/paper filter and rotating it 90 degrees between roasts). After four roasts I throw the paper away and wash the steel mesh filter in PulyCaff - and reload with a fresh piece of paper ready for next time.

So - when a single piece of kitchen towel produces four paper filters - and each paper filter will allow me to roast about 1kg of beans (4 x 250g batches) - then you can't really complain about the availability or price of the Hottop filters.

Simples...


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## stevet

These replies are fantastic; thank you everyone for the information - it's extremely helpful!

In terms of the GC, are the roasts repeatable? I'm leaning to that at the moment. I got in touch with Shelly - she quoted £850 for the HT B model. I'm not opposed to spending that much but only if it's worth it if that makes sense. I plan on roasting approx. 1kg per week maximum at this stage and would like to be able to have relatively good consistency. The filters aren't a worry for the HT now, thanks to MrShades







So, it's down to the other factors.

I'll check out the sales section too: I hadn't realised there was one until you pointed it out!


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## froggystyle

Where are you based Steve?


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## stevet

I'm based on the Wirral, squashed between Liverpool and Chester


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## 4085

One of the biggest factors to affect a home roaster, is the peak and troughs of your electricity supply. this figure is ballpark, but if you roasted then the voltage was below about 237 it had a serious effect. This was why Davec came up with the idea of popping a 230 volt element in, and altering the wiring slightly, and controlling the wattage, not voltage using an electrical dimmer switch. You can read it here

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/gene-cafe-dimmer-control-modification

I guess it always boils down to personal taste, but do you want to be a member of an exclusive club, or one with thousands of members? To get the best from your HT, you really have to spend a few hundred quid more to change boards and things over, then it becomes a good machine


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## stevet

Another quick question: how many roasts per week would you think would be a sensible amount at 200g per roast, in the GC, without burning it out? The reason I ask is that I'm hearing that a lot of people who did/have had problems with it were blasting the thing and overdoing it, so I would want to make sure I wasn't.


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## DavecUK

stevet said:


> Another quick question: how many roasts per week would you think would be a sensible amount at 200g per roast, in the GC, without burning it out? The reason I ask is that I'm hearing that a lot of people who did/have had problems with it were blasting the thing and overdoing it, so I would want to make sure I wasn't.


Always roast 250g not less (less beans works contrary to how you would think), sometimes I would roast 275g. You should be able to roast as much/more as your capable of drinking in a week without any problems. Personally I think limiting back to back roasts to 3 at a time might give the for longest life (this is a guess) although I know people who regularly do 5 roasts back to back..


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## Mouse

Steve, where are you planning on roasting? You're able to vent the Gene so that 100% of the smoke is vented outside. I roast in our kitchen with the Gene vented out of the window. I'd be stuck outside or in the garage with a Hottop... I stick to a max of 3 roasts on the trot

Where abouts on the Wirral are you? I'm in Bebington.

I bought Dave C's modded Gene off him. If you want to see it in action then you're more than welcome to pop in.


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## stevet

I'd be roasting in my kitchen as well and plan on using ducting to vent out of the kitchen window. Do you have to place the GC on something to avoid burning the worktop?

I'm based in West Kirby so not far from you at all! Small world!


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## ronsil

Just confirming - unless you have a method for exhausting the smoke you cannot roast indoors with a Hottop (unless you want coffee coloured walls)

I roast under my gated carport.


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## Mouse

No worries on burning the worktop - I have mine sat on the windowsill with no problems

I'll take a pic later on today


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## stevet

Thank you all, again









I'm thinking the GC is definitely the way to go then for what I'll be needing: volume/frequency, capacity, smoke ventilation through window, counter-top, cost etc.


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## Mouse

Quick pic









I've cut out a thin piece of ply that fits within the window once open - The ducting is fed through the hole and pops up/exits up over the garage roof

I haven't put the ducting on for the pic but you get the idea. The ply stops the ducting from touching any of the plastic and it also stops any smoke getting back into the house.

You'll be really happy with the Gene - Enjoy your roasting


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## iroko

I've been roasting on a GC for about 4 years now with no problems with the roaster, keep It clean and you shouldn't have any issues, and remember to

empty the chaff collector.


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## stevet

Great stuff - thanks for the pic as well. It gives me a really good idea of how to set things up. I'd have it on the counter top which is right below the same sort of window (transom window). Would you recommend the ply then? I hadn't thought about the ducting touching the UPVC frame or blowing smoke back in...good points. I can do the same no problem if it's advised.

The advice/information has definitely swung it for the GC







Thanks all, I really appreciate it. Once I've got the roaster I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions but in the meantime I'll carry on with my research. I've already decided on starting with Monsoon Malabar as I've read it's an easy first bean to begin roasting with. Now to find out where to source them from...!


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## DavecUK

stevet said:


> The advice/information has definitely swung it for the GC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks all, I really appreciate it. Once I've got the roaster I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions but in the meantime I'll carry on with my research. I've already decided on starting with Monsoon Malabar as I've read it's an easy first bean to begin roasting with. Now to find out where to source them from...!


Monsooned Malabar is probably the most difficult bean to learn with and weight for weight it has a higher volume than other coffees, which changes the roasting dynamics completely in something like a Gene, batch sizes having to be reduced a little to take account of this extra volume. Just get a good Brazilian and try with that.


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## ronsil

If you've had MM before you probably know what degree of roast you prefer.

Its readily available from Rave - Coffee Compass - Monsoon Estates & many others. When you start its sometimes good to purchase some ready roasted that you like & see how close you can get with your own roast. Gives you a target to work with.

Very true a Brazilian is much easier to start with unless you know what you are looking for with an MM


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## johnealey

You can get green coffee's from Coffee Compass, usually in 2kg bags, choosing the green bean options in the drop down if you not wanting to buy huge quantities to start with and you can always order a 500g of roasted as well to see what you aiming for.

There are other sources of course , offer up the above as Richard a good guy, sponsors the forum and they in stock at the moment  ( he also has a 3kg bargain greens offer for £20 if you want to try something else as a starter / not too expensive offering.

Rave and Bella Barista also do green bean offerings of their roasted (both also forum advertisers / supporters). if you buying your Gene from Bella then can pick some beans up at the same time either by kilo or bulk buy but no current Monsooned Malabar. Sumatra Aceh also another bean that gives a good crack indication / colouring as does old brown Java so may all be similar processing / storing methods(?)

I roast between a kilo and a kilo and half average weeks sometimes in one session or two, most done in one session was 7 x250g green weight and still working fine. If you do end up getting one from Bella does come with a cracking handbook written by DaveC that will get you well on the way to reasonable results until the urge to tinker with power modifications hits you....

Hope of some help

John

Edit: +1 (+2 ?) on the brasillian, comment above based on your request for MM ( your initial roasts with MM may not taste fantastic till you get in the ball park but will look like you expect them to. MM not for me personally unless blending post roast, but each to thier own as all tastes different, is what makes this forum different)


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## stevet

Again, wow, I'm amazed at how fast the replies come in and how helpful everyone is! Thank you!

Ok, some really, really, useful tips and pointers there! I'll check out those suppliers and will have a go with something Brazilian first before I attempt the MM


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## Mouse

stevet said:


> Great stuff - thanks for the pic as well. It gives me a really good idea of how to set things up. I'd have it on the counter top which is right below the same sort of window (transom window). Would you recommend the ply then? I hadn't thought about the ducting touching the UPVC frame or blowing smoke back in...good points. I can do the same no problem if it's advised.


The ducting will get REALLY hot so you'll definitely want to keep it away from your frame/window. I'd originally used a couple of chocks of wood but I'm a bit of a stickler for aesthetics.... The ply was easy enough to knock up and works great for me.


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