# L1 owners who have upgraded from a prior machine: why and did you get what you hoped?



## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

Having had the gaggia classic for about 6 months I'm making some pretty decent coffee and still very much enjoying the process. As I'm due an annual bonus son this year I am considering upgrading the classic to a better machine which steams a bit faster, is more consistent and generally nicer to use.

The obvious plan originally was to spend around £1k on something like the second hand Giotto on the fs forum but I have a nagging doubt about if this is actually just putting off the inevitable.

So as a question for the many L1 owners here who previously have had a good machine at around the 1k mark previously, what was it that led you to say that you wanted to upgrade again ( to the L1), what did you hope to gain by doing so and how much do you look back on your decision and feel it's paid dividends.

I'm trying to work out if I should really hold on and buy once but forever or if actually something like the Giotto will be all I'd want and need.

Usage is generally 2 cups at a time whenever used, espresso and milky drinks with 6-10 at weekends, I'd also like something which could do a good run of 4-5 in short order for guests.

TIA


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Out of interest, what's made you specifically mention the L1? Just sounds to me like it's a machine you ultimately want to have?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There is (,IMHO) a difference in shots between a lever and a pump machine. So try out if you can and see if you reach the same opinion or not and go from there.

Be more useful than listening to all of us. Plus there is a joy to be had fronm using a lever that needs to be experienced rather than read about


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

I upgraded (if that is the word) to the L1 because I wanted a more "hands-on" experience. I love the silence using a lever machine. I also liked the L1 from the aesthetic point of view and I wanted to support a small British (albeit run by a Kiwi) company.

I do not regret having made the change and do not really have a next step in mind ... I think I will just stick with what I've got now ... nowhere else to "upgrade" to ... although I am sure that some members may take issue with me on that!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Drc said:


> Usage is generally 2 cups at a time whenever used, espresso and milky drinks with 6-10 at weekends, I'd also like something which could do a good run of 4-5 in short order for guests.
> 
> TIA


Both The giotto and L1 would be able to cope with this with very little effort, don't forget you are going to want a fairly decent grinder to get the best from these two machines.


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

I upgraded from a Silvia to an L1 for a few reasons:

-I found the Silvia a pain due to temp surfing - my kids (baby & toddler at the time) would often interrupt at the wrong moment which meant I had to restart the process

-I wanted to be able to make shots as nice as the Bosco shot Dave Coffeechap pulled for me at the grindoff at Rave last year

-I wanted a machine that would make exceptional espresso, as I don't drink milk in coffee

-I wanted a machine I wouldn't get the urge to upgrade from.

I've never regretted it for a second.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Change bosco to l1 Coffeechap to Patrick and my story is pretty much identical ton drude's


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I upgraded from an Expobar Leva dual boiler to an L1 after reading the review posted December 2012 by Glenn. I have never looked back since and thoroughly enjoy lever world! That said, I have recently sold my L1 and am waiting for the new Veloce from BellaBarista as I suspect this will bring some much needed competition at this end of the market. So, perhaps thee might be a viable alternate to the L1 coming in July.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

If I had a bigger kitchen I would have an L1 and my Alex Duetto on the bench

They produce very different shots.

Some beans are better with the L1 extraction profile, others with a pump driven extraction.

Levers are fun, but I love the ability to easily manipulate temperature and pressure (steam) with my DB.

If I had both I'd probably use them in equal measure.


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Glenn, I'm with you. If I had the space (and you know how tiny my kitchen is!) then I'd buy an HX machine as well. Perhaps I should just take the oven and hob out and make the space!!!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I have owned A LOT of machines from single boiler to hx to double boiler and a hell of a lot if lever machines, including a bosco and two group commercial lever machines and I can honestly say the l1 is my go to machine, super stable, amazing consistency and just the most pleasurable experience in making coffee


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## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks for the view so far, keep them coming









If terms of saying an l1 is the machine I really want is possibly true to an extent but is more a reflection of what I've seen happen to people far more skilled than I on this forum. Rightly or wrongly my perception is it's the machine many / most seem to gravitate of I if they are in a position to pay that much at some point.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The thing is, the L1 has absolutely no competition in the lever market. It was designed as bringing a true commercial lever experience to the home, and to that extent, it has been very successful. That said, those who have the current machine have to remember all the problems the early adopters went through in order for the later owners to enjoy! As competition comes in, and certainly at a cheaper price point, it will be interesting to see if it keeps its deserved crown.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The thing is, the L1 has absolutely no competition in the lever market. It was designed as bringing a true commercial lever experience to the home, and to that extent, it has been very successful. That said, those who have the current machine have to remember all the problems the early adopters went through in order for the later owners to enjoy! As competition comes in, and certainly at a cheaper price point, it will be interesting to see if it keeps its deserved crown.


What problems? Mines from the second run (Dec 12) and never missed a beat. Reiss states that the build is still exactly the same, although the pop-out panels are a nice addition.

Agree about the competition though, but guess Bella Barista's new lever will counter that.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Aaron, I am not going to throw any mud but many on here know what I am on about! If you want to go to pm I will explain


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## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

Another question I would have is if on reflection your enjoyment of the L1 may come from having experienced a hx or standard dual boiler first. Would going from a classic mean I actually miss realising some of the things that make the l1 such a well loved machine?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Drc said:


> Another question I would have is if on reflection your enjoyment of the L1 may come from having experienced a hx or standard dual boiler first. Would going from a classic mean I actually miss realising some of the things that make the l1 such a well loved machine?


No, I went from something similar to a classic (a La Pavoni pump machine) and I wanted a lever ,achine that was reliable and consistent, that's what I got. Quality improved dramatically. My useage is similar or maybe even lower than yours, so maybe overkill for our needs but worth it IMO.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The thing is, the L1 has absolutely no competition in the lever market. It was designed as bringing a true commercial lever experience to the home, and to that extent, it has been very successful. That said, those who have the current machine have to remember all the problems the early adopters went through in order for the later owners to enjoy! As competition comes in, and certainly at a cheaper price point, it will be interesting to see if it keeps its deserved crown.


I agree it will be interesting, however unless someone is prepared to do a ground up build on a new machine, I doubt ANY will be as stable as the L1


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

I went from aeropress to LI! Not a conventional route, and possibly suggesting I have more money than sense, my purchase of a machine coincided with a 50th birthday and I wanted to buy once and buy well

and in a sense if there have been problems suffered by early adopters I really don't need to remember them as they are not relevant to my continued daily enjoyment of the LI

just need a grinder to equal it now!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But the L1 is not a ground up build. It is exactly the same as the QM which is bits added into an existing machine


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Perhaps we can avoid a l1 versus quickmill debate. For the OPs sake at least plus Given that no one has a finished model yet and CC is the only one who has played with the prototype for any period of time most of it is based on conjecture .

I'll look forward to your opinion when you get your finished model dfk


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> But the L1 is not a ground up build. It is exactly the same as the QM which is bits added into an existing machine


No it is not, the quickmill is bolted onto the front of a Verona casing, the L1 has its own chassis that in the latest variant is exceptionally stable.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The L1 has its own chassis now.......it did not in the early days........and Bootsie, this is not a debate, or an argument. it is just supplying bits of info for the benefit of the op


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Have fun then , I thought the OP asked for people's experience of levers and high end pump machines , and why they chose them .


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## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks all - this is proving useful. Mainly in terms of seeing do I have a " ermm I want to buy a coffee machine for 1k" or a "eeeerrrrrrrrmmmm (remember that engagement ring I just bought you) I wanttobuyacoffeemachinefor2kbutitsbrillipromiseandifigetoneiwillnevereverneedtoupgradeit" conversation


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Where are you based then DRC ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The L1 has its own chassis now.......it did not in the early days........and Bootsie, this is not a debate, or an argument. it is just supplying bits of info for the benefit of the op


Actually sorry to correct you Dave but to keep the facts absolutely straight, the l1 has absolutely not shared its chassis at any point with another fracino machine, hence why I have stated it is a ground up machine, it shared back end components bug that is it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I stand corrected as usual! I just remember Cherub owners in the early days, laughing at us L1 owners and pointing out something along those lines........I am glad they are wrong and that the only shared part is the boiler! Makes me feel a lot better now.......LOL


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

what components does it share chap?


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

An early L1 prototype did look like the case was from a Heavenly (or old style Cherub), however remember that was a prototype! That might be where the comments came from

http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/londinium-i-prototype-the-first-image


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## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Where are you based then DRC ?


 Within spitting distance of orangetange based on a prior thread so might be trying to take him up on an earlier offer of a taster or two from the l1. Plus if the boss also likes it it could help the case, she is thus far not sold on the idea of a big lever in the kitchen.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Drc said:


> Within spitting distance of orangetange based on a prior thread so might be trying to take him up on an earlier offer of a taster or two from the l1. Plus if the boss also likes it it could help the case, she is thus far not sold on the idea of a big lever in the kitchen.


Have fun , I was lucky enough to be able to try out the lever at systemic kids house before I decided to buy it.

As I I said there is a satisfaction that can't be explained from using one , so trying will let you see if you enjoy using it and prefer the taste of a lever shot


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have fun , I was lucky enough to be able to try out the lever at systemic kids house before I decided to buy it.
> 
> As I I said there is a satisfaction that can't be explained from using one , so trying will let you see if you enjoy using it and prefer the taste of a lever shot


Cue the lines about hands on levers etc etc I guess now


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## EricC (Apr 25, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I was lucky enough to be able to try out the lever at systemic kids house.


So was I.









Do you think that he is on the payroll?


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

So Eric, from gs3 to l1? This is quite interesring...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

EricC said:


> So was I.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, my cover is blown


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

charris said:


> So Eric, from gs3 to l1? This is quite interesring...


There was another guy on the londinium forum went gs3 to londinium ...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> There was another guy on the londinium forum went gs3 to londinium ...


More than one according to Reiss.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

looks like this Geezer went Rocket > GS3 > L1 going by his Youtube videos


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Swapped his grinder on the way too, nice find great watching how others work thier machines


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Swapped his grinder on the way too, nice find great watching how others work thier machines


Yep his grind is way to fine or he's over dosed . He's forcing the lever at one point to get it to flow .....









I would suspect that will be a ristretto on the over extracted side as it like a 45 seconds extraction


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## EricC (Apr 25, 2011)

charris said:


> So Eric, from gs3 to l1? This is quite interesring...


It is a possibility however nothing is set in stone.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

There is an American guy who occasionally posts here (but more often on HB) that went GS/3 to L1, might be same guy referred to earlier.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aaronb said:


> There is an American guy who occasionally posts here (but more often on HB) that went GS/3 to L1, might be same guy referred to earlier.


Stephen Sweeney of naked portafilter building fame is the guy you are thinking off ...


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

glevum said:


> looks like this Geezer went Rocket > GS3 > L1 going by his Youtube videos


hows wd he managing to measure his dose, (and keep his kichen so clean with a doser)??


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Drc said:


> Within spitting distance of orangetange based on a prior thread so might be trying to take him up on an earlier offer of a taster or two from the l1. Plus if the boss also likes it it could help the case, she is thus far not sold on the idea of a big lever in the kitchen.


Anytime chap, but my setup doesn't exactly look small/ wag friendly


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Maybe, you could have my pavoni on lone, just to introduce her to lever in kitchen , plus think it should be compulsory own one before a l1, makes you appreciate it more


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## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

Orangertange said:


> Maybe, you could have my pavoni on lone, just to introduce her to lever in kitchen , plus think it should be compulsory own one before a l1, makes you appreciate it more


Sounds good, we've already got a pretty big grinder alongside the classic so in my mind there's not 'that' much difference but as you say, she might well see it differently


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

orangetange & drc you coming to the Norwich crawl?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Orangertange said:


> just to introduce her to lever in kitchen


ooohh eer

13 chara


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Orangertange said:


> hows wd he managing to measure his dose, (and keep his kichen so clean with a doser)??


45 second extraction! Bet that tasted nice....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> 45 second extraction! Bet that tasted nice....


45 seconds and the lever was forced up to get that


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

What I love about the L1 is that it feels like a "forever" machine, Unlike your typical HX/DB. It's simple, reliable but also repairable with simple tools. The inside is as beautiful ad the outside.


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## Drc (Jan 21, 2014)

aaronb said:


> orangetange & drc you coming to the Norwich crawl?


Ooh I've missed this as crazy busy at work so haven't been on the forums much. Will check to see if it fits around kids etc.


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