# What else should I buy?



## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

I've bought my Sage DTP and a Sage Grinder. I see on some posts, people using tiny scales..should I buy some? If so which one. Is there anything else I should get kitted out with please?

TIA Suex


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Scales are a good idea for weighing your beans going in and then your shot coming out. @Mrboots2u has a really useful link explaining this process. You can pick these up online for about £10.

It depends how far you want to go with it. A good upgrade is a tamper. You can get a motta 53mm tamper for around £20 from the usual online shopping sites.

There's loads of other bits and bobs you could potentially do but I'd say start with scales and get used to the machine first.

Hope this helps


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

A dosing cylinder to put on top of your basket and maybe a little whisk to give the ground coffee a stir before tamping, to improve distribution in the basket


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

No idea what clearance is like on the dtp but maybe a couple of shot glasses could help. Rhinowares make some nice ones.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

These are excellent little shot glasses with handles. And the writing doesn't appear to rub off easily.

Caution - be sure to weigh your output & dose.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Scales and then read the following which should be made compulsory

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22879

Made a huge difference when I started out as I'm sure it has for many others. Enjoy the journey.


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## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

im still to buy the machine, but plan to get one in a day or 2. I have a grinder, ordered a scales, knock box, milk thermometer, beans from rave (no point buying crap beans even to learn)


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Daft question but do you have coffee cups. Depending on your preferred drink, flat white, cappuccino etc then they all work best if you have the correct sized cup!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've used the stock tamper all of the time, nothing wrong with it really and a nice tidy place to keep it. Learning to use it consistently is another matter - what ever you use apart from maybe a calibrated one. For some reason 53mm versions of those tend to be rather expensive.

The Sage knock box is on the small size of being perfect really but is well made and tidy.

Scales for weighing grinds in and shot out are pretty essential but initially you can get a good idea of the correct fill height for the filter basket with the razor tool. The baskets will usually hold a bit more but for a decent shot the grinds do need room to expand.

John

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## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

ajohn said:


> I've used the stock tamper all of the time, nothing wrong with it really and a nice tidy place to keep it. Learning to use it consistently is another matter - what ever you use apart from maybe a calibrated one. For some reason 53mm versions of those tend to be rather expensive.
> 
> The Sage knock box is on the small size of being perfect really but is well made and tidy.
> 
> ...


Sorry if I sound a bit thick..just learning. I understand about weighing your beans to put on hopper but weighing shot, presume you put shot into a pre weighed glass to get shot weight?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

sues1958 said:


> Sorry if I sound a bit thick..just learning. I understand about weighing your beans to put on hopper but weighing shot, presume you put shot into a pre weighed glass to get shot weight?


You put the glass on your scales under the portafilter & stop the shot by weight (usually twice that of the coffee though can be longer or shorter ) instead of volume.

If you look at the What's in your cup thread you'll quite often see something like 18/36/30 which is bean weight, shot weight, time from pump start.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

sues1958 said:


> Sorry if I sound a bit thick..just learning. I understand about weighing your beans to put on hopper but weighing shot, presume you put shot into a pre weighed glass to get shot weight?


Usually people are looking at a certain quantity of beans being extracted in a certain time to a certain volume. As 1ml weighs rather close to 1g people tend to use scales to check that aspect.

Once things are set up and satisfactory people might extract for a fixed volume or extract for a fixed time. I think the latter is more common but the volume produced will vary a bit.

The other aspect that gets mentioned is ratio's. That's grams of coffee in and ml of coffee out. This is the actual shot that might be drunk as is as an espresso or mixed with milk or water. The ratio is bean dependent as some beans are stronger than others. If you were drinking espresso then a fixed volume might make more sense. That would be 30ml for a single and 60ml for a double. If milk or water based drinks some variation in the 30 or 60ml wont show so much. I drink long blacks for instance that are about 370ml before I add a bit of milk so use timed shots. I run the shot into the water. Americano's are usually run the other way. Milk is usually added last on milk based drinks.

The thing to remember though is that it's your mouth on the end and that's what counts. The theory helps you get there but isn't cast in stone.

John

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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Suex

Put your scales onto drip tray, place cup onto the scale and tare the scale, then pull the shot, aim for a 1:2 ratio as a starting point, i.e. 18g of ground coffee in your portafilter basket to 36g in your cup. Taste, then try other ratios, for example, 1:1, 1:3, 1:4 and others in between and beyond if needs be, make a note of which YOU prefer and use that as your reference. What your aiming for is what is the tastiest drink for you. Some experimenting is needed but that's all part of the fun. Hope this makes some sense.


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## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

mines_abeer said:


> Suex
> 
> Put your scales onto drip tray, place cup onto the scale and tare the scale, then pull the shot, aim for a 1:2 ratio as a starting point, i.e. 18g of ground coffee in your portafilter basket to 36g in your cup. Taste, then try other ratios, for example, 1:1, 1:3, 1:4 and others in between and beyond if needs be, make a note of which YOU prefer and use that as your reference. What your aiming for is what is the tastiest drink for you. Some experimenting is needed but that's all part of the fun. Hope this makes some sense.


Ah, thank you. I will get some scales and as you all say it's trial and error but enjoy the ride xx


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## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

ajohn said:


> Usually people are looking at a certain quantity of beans being extracted in a certain time to a certain volume. As 1ml weighs rather close to 1g people tend to use scales to check that aspect.
> 
> Once things are set up and satisfactory people might extract for a fixed volume or extract for a fixed time. I think the latter is more common but the volume produced will vary a bit.
> 
> ...


Thanks John will get some scales and try it our xx


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## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> You put the glass on your scales under the portafilter & stop the shot by weight (usually twice that of the coffee though can be longer or shorter ) instead of volume.
> 
> If you look at the What's in your cup thread you'll quite often see something like 18/36/30 which is bean weight, shot weight, time from pump start.


What's on your cup.....5000+ pages!!

Got some reading to do lol


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Suex

Scale wise get ones which weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g, the following are popular on the forum because they can take the weight of the whole portafilter, and they are shallow enough to allow your cup to fit under the portafilter. Alternatively, you can grind into a stainless steel container then empty from that into the basket, this allows you to break down any clumps the grinder may have produced, helping to achieve a more even extraction of the coffee.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01M7R2DVN/ref=mp_s_a_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1513744983&sr=8-4&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=Amir+0.01+scales&dpPl=1&dpID=41QZcIegWFL&ref=plSrch

A couple of video links which may also help,


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

sues1958 said:


> Ah, thank you. I will get some scales and as you all say it's trial and error but enjoy the ride xx


Not to much 'error' I hope or we aren't doing our jobs properly


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You might want to think about a tamping mat. Grinds get spilt a bit and they tend to keep them in the same place so they can be shook off it and it can be washed now and again.

One problem I had with the tamper is not getting it level with the filter basket. With the Sage one it's easy to feel round it to check that it's level before pressing. I use my thumb to smooth out and lower the grounds first before tamping. Tamping pressure needs to be pretty consistent. I found it best to strain a little. Checking on scales it's about the right amount. We have some kitchen scales that go up to 35kg. They are handy if I sell heavy old boys toys on ebay. Some people test on bathroom scales.

Thinking back to my day 1 with a machine I suspect a certain approach will get you there more quickly. Rather than trying to get the grind correct and the duration weigh beans into the hopper and grind all of them. Sage grinders are pretty good at gobbling even a few grams up. So say you want 9g for the single basket put 9g of beans in and grind them. Initially less will come out but after a while what goes in will more or less be what comes out. Sage give weights for the baskets in the manual. I'd pick a number in the middle of them. Then tamp and check with the razor tool. Pull your shot etc. You'll find that baskets hold less as a coarser grind is set and more if set finer. When you have reached "perfection" that's the time to look at setting the grind timer to give the correct dose. It will save a lot of time rather than continuously setting both the grind timer and the grind setting. Some people always weigh bean in as this process is often called.







Actually it makes a lot of sense as the output from a timed grind will vary, slowly once the grinder has settled down to the beans being used.

When measuring the weight of a grind rather than use tare I weigh the empty baskets make a note and do the sum in my head. That way I just have to check the weight of a full basket rather than tare it empty first. The baskets can be removed after tamping an extractor (Amazon) helps but a knife or spoon etc will do. Some people cantilever the entire portafilter onto scales, use tar and weigh the grind that has been added that way. Hasn't worked out for me but maybe I need to make sure it always goes on in the same place and support the handle at the end.







Can't get excited so now and again I just weigh a basket to see if the output from the grinder has drifted.

Most people insist on using fresh roasted beans. There are a huge variety available and all do differ making choice tricky. Initially I don't see any problem using supermarket beans but once opened they don't keep as well. On that score maybe Tesco Original or their Sumatra Mandheling. Fresh roasted - find a site that has reviews and read them. I've ground beans to brew with several other methods other than espresso machines so had a fair idea what I wanted. The reviews can help.

John

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## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

mines_abeer said:


> Not to much 'error' I hope or we aren't doing our jobs properly


Haha, I hope I don't make too many errors x


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## sues1958 (Oct 14, 2016)

mines_abeer said:


> Suex
> 
> Scale wise get ones which weigh to an accuracy of 0.1g, the following are popular on the forum because they can take the weight of the whole portafilter, and they are shallow enough to allow your cup to fit under the portafilter. Alternatively, you can grind into a stainless steel container then empty from that into the basket, this allows you to break down any clumps the grinder may have produced, helping to achieve a more even extraction of the coffee.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help, I've watched the videos and ordered those scales...thank you


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

ajohn said:


> Most people insist on using fresh roasted beans. There are a huge variety available and all do differ making choice tricky. Initially I don't see any problem using supermarket beans but once opened they don't keep as well. On that score maybe Tesco Original or their Sumatra Mandheling. Fresh roasted - find a site that has reviews and read them. I've ground beans to brew with several other methods other than espresso machines so had a fair idea what I wanted. The reviews can help.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I'd very much advise against this. It will set you back, and you'll spend ages wondering why you can't get it right. Go with a well known roaster like foundry, rave, coffee compass etc to name a few.

There's lots of advice, and you could do it bye eye but weighing is the best method. It can be a bit tricky with a spouted portafilter to weigh the grounds but grinding into a little pot might help. As folks have said, you can pick up a set of scales for about a fiver, essential bit of kit


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

mmmatron said:


> I'd very much advise against this. It will set you back, and you'll spend ages wondering why you can't get it right. Go with a well known roaster like foundry, rave, coffee compass etc to name a few.
> 
> There's lots of advice, and you could do it bye eye but weighing is the best method. It can be a bit tricky with a spouted portafilter to weigh the grounds but grinding into a little pot might help. As folks have said, you can pick up a set of scales for about a fiver, essential bit of kit


I've tried a couple of packs of supermarket beans out of curiosity and haven't had any problem getting a decent drink out of them. Also I am currently producing 3 drinks from small 40g packs of beans just using what I would call a general purpose grinder setting as there no chance of tuning properly. 12 so far and all but one was ok. That one was a bit weak. In fact I'd go as far to say that they can be easier to use than fresh roasted beans but the principles are the same. The catch really with fresh roasted is which one to buy. I've bought some that I wouldn't like what ever I did with them.

General purpose setting - one which is very likely to be a bit too fine for any bean but I do know my grinder well.







It's Sage and they are likely to vary a bit.

Another option is Starbucks beans - providing some one likes that sort of taste. They are exactly the same as the ones they use. I suggested Tesco because they do sell beans at a rate that means they are unlikely to be too old. Some one I know always uses them. Looks like there has been a name change though or maybe it's still Tesco Standard.

John

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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

No, no, no, these are cheap commodity beans, you've no idea where they're from or even what the bag contains, usually c‰#p, no roast dates, only best before, therefore you have no idea of when they were roasted. Fresh roasted is a must, need to rest them for 5 to 10 days after there roasting date, which a reputable supplier will put on the bag, to allow the beans to degas, then they're ready to go. You've bought yourself some decent equipment, now do yourself the favour of using decent beans, this has been echoed many times before and as the old saying goes c‰#p in c‰#p out.

As @mmmatron said buy yourself some beans from a reputable supplier, start with those suggested, try different roasts i.e. light, medium and dark and pick tasting notes that appeal to you, no point going for grapefruit if you can't stand the stuff for example. It might take a while to find what your preferences are but again it's all part of the fun.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Just used a bag of Aldi Italian Blend beans as an emergency buy: Good taste, nice bouquet, good crema but too light for me.....LOL


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