# Lelit Elizabeth Rotary Pump!



## Chrism09

Hey guys, new here have been lurking for a wee while! I'm a former pro barista from years gone by now an engineer by trade but love my home setup, previously owned another Lelit dual boiler and two different HX machines. So absolutely love the Elizabeth, incredible temp stability and I'm getting shots as good as anything I used to pull on the commercial machines at work (bearing in mind this was 10 years ago so mainly PID LM's, E61 machines and one pressure profiler) the only thing I just really wanted a rotary pump machine for my new home setup as I'm sick of vibe pump noise. The elizabeth is good but still not that quiet really and I live in a noise sensitive household! I've acquired an awesome little DC Rotary pump barely used that should fit the bill nicely and it even fits inside the Elizabeth's case (although i may out board it to retain the tank) https://arbel-ltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/9036-mVPRO-Sell-Sheet-v3.pdf Does anyone know the specs on the existing Gicar box and if it will ok to run the DC supply from the existing Vibe pump terminals, the pump is only 60w rated so not a lot more than the vibe pump.

Cheers


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## MediumRoastSteam

Chrism09 said:


> Hey guys, new here have been lurking for a wee while! I'm a former pro barista from years gone by now an engineer by trade but love my home setup, previously owned another Lelit dual boiler and two different HX machines. So absolutely love the Elizabeth, incredible temp stability and I'm getting shots as good as anything I used to pull on the commercial machines at work (bearing in mind this was 10 years ago so mainly PID LM's, E61 machines and one pressure profiler) the only thing I just really wanted a rotary pump machine for my new home setup as I'm sick of vibe pump noise. The elizabeth is good but still not that quiet really and I live in a noise sensitive household! I've acquired an awesome little DC Rotary pump barely used that should fit the bill nicely and it even fits inside the Elizabeth's case (although i may out board it to retain the tank) https://arbel-ltd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/9036-mVPRO-Sell-Sheet-v3.pdf Does anyone know the specs on the existing Gicar box and if it will ok to run the DC supply from the existing Vibe pump terminals, the pump is only 60w rated so not a lot more than the vibe pump.
> 
> Cheers


 Welcome! This is really interesting. @DavecUK might know. Also pinging @Doram as the designated MaraX representative as wondering if this could even be suitable for the MaraX.

good luck with the mod if you go ahead.


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## Chrism09

Thanks bud, yes I thought @DaveCUK might be the man! I can always put a relay in but if there's no point....


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## MediumRoastSteam

Chrism09 said:


> Thanks bud, yes I thought @DaveCUK might be the man! I can always put a relay in but if there's no point....


 There are a few things which makes me wonder though:

- if a straight replacement is so simple, why manufacturers still use vibe pumps?

- why prosumer machines have much bigger rotary pumps?

Following this with excitement. 👍


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## Chrism09

@MediumRoastSteamyes mate, main reasons would be cost and product line distinction I would say! At the price these companies get vibration pumps for it would add a big increase to models like the PL92T that might blur the lines between this and more expensive models. Also 240v rotary pumps and motors are so widely used in the industry (we have these in our trade catalog at work) that the prices are extremely low compared to the more specialist DC motor rotary combinations. These pumps aren't cheap for sure. I'm hoping Lelit will make more of this incredible Saturated (Ring) compact brew group design and maybe bring out a pro version of the Elizabeth with rotary pump, more small commercial capability. The temperature seems to swing less than many of the E61 dual boilers I have seen and the heatup time is a huge plus, a great design for sure!


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## DavecUK

You "might" be able to draw enough power (including the transform loses to 24V DC) to run that pump. I don't know for sure. Depends on the Triacs or relays within the specific Gicar box. I think at 60W you're more likely to only get 6 bar pressure...of course you will be pushing the pump as hard as it can go, so it might well draw a lot more than that to its max static head of 7 bar!, or is it 12.5....bit confused by the rating sheet.

You will need to outboard it because there won't be room for the pump and 24V transformer required. Also check out the pump curves carefully those pumps will demand more and more power as the pressure rises, the one you're looking at could well draw 120W, which is my experience when that sort of pump tries to deliver 9 bar.

The new QuietX pump, is not much louder than that pump you specced will be


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## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Also pinging @Doram as the designated MaraX representative


 😲



DavecUK said:


> The new QuietX pump, is not much louder than that pump you specced will be


 Coming from a 'normal' vibe pump, the X is so quite I can hardly hear it. If one is after completely quiet, maybe a lever is the way to go? Then you only have to build a sound proof box to put the grinder in. 😉


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## Chrism09

DavecUK said:


> You "might" be able to draw enough power (including the transform loses to 24V DC) to run that pump. I don't know for sure. Depends on the Triacs or relays within the specific Gicar box. I think at 60W you're more likely to only get 6 bar pressure...of course you will be pushing the pump as hard as it can go, so it might well draw a lot more than that to its max static head of 7 bar!, or is it 12.5....bit confused by the rating sheet.
> 
> You will need to outboard it because there won't be room for the pump and 24V transformer required. Also check out the pump curves carefully those pumps will demand more and more power as the pressure rises, the one you're looking at could well draw 120W, which is my experience when that sort of pump tries to deliver 9 bar.
> 
> The new QuietX pump, is not much louder than that pump you specced will be


 @DavecUK Thanks so much for the reply Dave really appreciate it. Yeah I'm going to see if I can get some more detailed specs for the motor, I wonder if Gicar has internal details on the box specs anywhere. I think it's static pressure is 7 bar but flow pressure is 12.5bar max so it should be grand. Believe it or not it does fit in there (it's really quite tiny compared to when you usually think 'rotary pump', I'll send a pic at some point when I start the mod, the 24v supply I have I'm intending to attach to up near where the water reservoir used to be (away from the pump) as I will be removing the water reservoir and running with an (elevated) small external 5l tank with BSP outlet, until I plumb the machine with the kitchen renovation in January.


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## Chrism09

DavecUK said:


> You "might" be able to draw enough power (including the transform loses to 24V DC) to run that pump. I don't know for sure. Depends on the Triacs or relays within the specific Gicar box. I think at 60W you're more likely to only get 6 bar pressure...of course you will be pushing the pump as hard as it can go, so it might well draw a lot more than that to its max static head of 7 bar!, or is it 12.5....bit confused by the rating sheet.
> 
> You will need to outboard it because there won't be room for the pump and 24V transformer required. Also check out the pump curves carefully those pumps will demand more and more power as the pressure rises, the one you're looking at could well draw 120W, which is my experience when that sort of pump tries to deliver 9 bar.
> 
> The new QuietX pump, is not much louder than that pump you specced will be


 @DavecUK I've asked Lelit through their support portal if they can tell me the Amperage on relay FA7. or some reason it's not printed on the box as it is with standard Gicar control boxes. Fingers crossed, I can't see it being less than 2-3A which would give me enough to run the 150W DC power supply.


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## Chrism09

@MediumRoastSteam@DavecUKJust an update guys I heard back from Lelit technical dept. The relay is 5A and they concur that there would be more than sufficient capacity for a 1.5A DC Supply in replacement for the vibration pump. I also passed on some recommendations for upcoming models based on the Elizabeth design which they have taken on board  Right pressure profiling rotary pump mod here we go!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Chrism09 said:


> @MediumRoastSteam@DavecUKJust an update guys I heard back from Lelit technical dept. The relay is 5A and they concur that there would be more than sufficient capacity for a 1.5A DC Supply in replacement for the vibration pump. I also passed on some recommendations for upcoming models based on the Elizabeth design which they have taken on board  Right pressure profiling rotary pump mod here we go!


 I've been in touch with Lelit support too for other reasons, mainly related to the group. They are brilliant. Looking forward to hearing from you!

EDIT: Where did you buy the pump from, out of curiosity?


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## Zunk

Chrism09 said:


> @MediumRoastSteam@DavecUKJust an update guys I heard back from Lelit technical dept. The relay is 5A and they concur that there would be more than sufficient capacity for a 1.5A DC Supply in replacement for the vibration pump. I also passed on some recommendations for upcoming models based on the Elizabeth design which they have taken on board  Right pressure profiling rotary pump mod here we go!


 Hey, just read this threat and am really curious if the modification did work as desired! Could you give an update on your project, @Chrism09?


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Chrism09 - just wondering if you had any luck with this project?


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## gaojinshi

Did lelit headquarters follow up? I also like this model of small machine with rotary pump. Quiet and stable pressure provide coffee making.


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