# 4 months with my Sage Barista Express



## MatthewBw

Firstly thanks to this forum for great support and help even though I was probably repeating questions answered a hundred times. This forum is superb!

So after upgrading from a bean to cup I've now had this for 4 months. What are my thoughts on the machine as a newbie. I paid 465 in a price match at John Lewis. Also received a free knock box, although I had to contact sage to remind them to send it out as they never contacted me as promised.

Overall it makes a good shot when using fresh coffee but it does seem a little inconsistent. I did initially put it down to user error/tamping on my part but trying different roasts, weighing the coffee and tamp pressure suggests otherwise.

Sometimes it will over or under extract with the exact same amount of coffee, at same grind settings and tamped the same which I can only assume is to do with grind not being consistent?

Foaming is ok but takes a long time to warm up and purge. Ironically I find it harder to get a good micro foam with this than my bean to cup with fixed wand. The steam seems a lot wetter than the former.

Pros

Looks good and is a good size for a small kitchen like mine.

Built in grinder with removable hopper to re-store beans

Warms up fast

Auto grinder is usually useful (see below).

Single and dual wall filters included.

Pressure gauge good for judging if extracted correctly.

Easy and cheap to clean/descale

Tank not huge but enough for 5 or 6 coffees and milk.

Coffee is dry after extraction and easy to knock out.

Cons

The steam wand takes quite a long time to warm up and can take a long time to steam. This means your shots can be waiting for a few minutes whilst you foam. If I foam the milk first I seem to find the shots will draw differently.

Grinder is messy and inconsistent, throws coffee all over the place and also fills the puck unevenly. May contribute to inconsistency?

Removal of hopper leaves a lot of coffee still in the machine you can't remove. Only choice is to grind and throw it.

Must be turned off between uses or the grinder/hopper gets hot. Usually I make 2 coffees so it's not a problem.

Conclusion:

Not a cheap machine and certainly not a top end one. I feel it's adequate but I still find it a little unpredictable which is frustrating and the steam wand can be frustratingly slow to get going.


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## NickdeBug

good review and some useful advice for potential owners

Unless you are short on space a separate machine and grinder is usually going to be the better option


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## MatthewBw

If I had the space I'd definitely go for a better grinder. When you're learning anything inconsistent seems to make it harder as a newbie to work out what you've done wrong.

I do think if I was buying again I'd maybe buy separates. The interest free from John Lewis was too tempting ;-)


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## jimbojohn55

If the grinder is heating up when the machine is left on , I would be tempted to return it for a refund and go down the separates route







£315 for the sage then spend £150 elsewhere on an MC2 £136 at happydonkey or if you wanted better long term second hand value a rancilo Silva £355, - I'm thinking of similar options myself


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## MarkT

@MatthewBw

I also have the Barista Express for now into 3 months. Bought Sage DTP and Ended up with the Express by warehouse dispatch error from Go Electrical. Paid £400 for it. Due to lack of space and my wife likes the machine so we kept it.

I do agree with you on every part of the review. Grinder is inconsistent and the grinds are sometimes not fine enough for espresso. I have to adjust the setting everytime I change beans.

Yes you do waste some coffee grinds falling off the hopper also. I placed a plastic lid (icecream tub cover) underneath to catch the grinds and put it back in the portafilter. I do end up over filing the portafilter and getting over extracted at times. I found out that if I don't use the provided dose trimmer, it ended up over extracting.

I do not find the heating up bit an issue for getting the coffee as I get the machine on a few minutes before hand. Probably about only 5 mins ish. I only use the auto extractions and double shots.

Steaming milk does take between 2-3 mins also depending on the amount of mild too. So to compensate for that I have the cups warmed up with hot water. Espresso shot on top of the machine where the cup warmer is. Once I got the milk steamed. I empty the cup with hot water and add the espresso and milk ontop. It seems to help abit.

I do drink mostly milk based drinks. Occasionally an Americano.

Overall it is an OK machine for entry level machine, makes good enough coffee with built in grinder. It's good for people like us with limited space on kitchen worktops. It does have the functions for fully automatic shots or manual.

I do not regret buying it as my budget was limited and also space issues too. Wouldn't mind getting a Mazzer SJ and a dual boiler in the future though. lol.


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## MatthewBw

A year of ownership now and I have grown to love the machine. I feel it was the right machine for my learning/journey.

Sadly almost exactly a year after buying it started making a horrendous sound upon extraction. Sage seem to be good about it and there was instant agreement to repair just from listening to it over the phone.

I will let people know how it goes.


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## MatthewBw

Chap called Josh came today from Coffee Classics Ltd, very knowledgable and well prepared, I enjoyed the chat too. Gave the machine a deeper de-scale before replacing a part.

He did advise that sages recommendation for vinegar for descaling wasn't entirely sufficient for the hard water in a lot of the uk. He reckoned some limescale probably got dislodged whilst descaling and caused the damage. I'm obviously keen to avoid a repeat of the fault. He recommended some products he uses at home and even gave me a bag of coffee to try in my stovetop.

Very pleased with the experience overall and to get my machine working. Sage had no quibbles sending him out so they are easy to deal with and I enjoyed chatting as he fixed the machine. Now to try that coffee


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## Dave M

I've just bought this machine about 10 minutes ago then saw this thread. Hope I've not made a mistake? YouTube videos look good.


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## MarkT

Hi Dave, I've got one last Christmas and its a decent machine to use. I got it as I didn't have the space for the grinder. For a beginner fresh coffee drinker like me it's a very good machine.


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## urbanbumpkin

MatthewBw said:


> He recommended some products he uses at home and even gave me a bag of coffee to try in my stovetop.
> 
> Very pleased with the experience overall and to get my machine working. Sage had no quibbles sending him out so they are easy to deal with and I enjoyed chatting as he fixed the machine. Now to try that coffee


What did he recommend?

They also very kindly send me a bag of decaf when they returned my machine.


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## Dave M

MarkT said:


> Hi Dave, I've got one last Christmas and its a decent machine to use. I got it as I didn't have the space for the grinder. For a beginner fresh coffee drinker like me it's a very good machine.


Thanks. I've had a second hand Gaggia Classic I bought a few months ago. Also a Baratza Encore grinder. I just wanted something new and this seems perfect. I wouldn't want to spend more then this (bought off Amazon for £490). One thing I like about the Sage is the way it'll grind the right amount for you and the right amount of coffee for your drink I go the cup.

The only negative thing I can see is that the steaming wand doesn't seem too powerful?


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## MarkT

Hi Dave,

Yes you are right it's not very powerful. It does take a while to get the milk going. I have a 600 ml jug and it takes about 4-5 mins for a full jug. Lol however it's better then my last machine, which takes forever to make the steamed milk and unpredictable espressos.

I went for the Sage DTP and got sent the barista express. Gave me a discount so ended up keeping for £400.









Although I do fine that you have to adjust the grind settings when you change beans darker/lighter. I also use feldgrind on the side too.


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## MarkT

Correction 3 mins 10 seconds for a full jug up to 63' C of steam milk. Lol


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## Dave M

Took delivery of my new Sage (Breville) "Barista Express" this afternoon and I am absolutely delighted with it. First off, it looks amazing. I spent a good 40 minutes preparing the machine, cleaning the water tank, protafilter and baskets and milk jug (a nice addition to include) and then "conditioned" the water filter. Then on to flushing the machine. Dried everything off, popped in some beans and off we go&#8230;.

First attempt. I used some illy medium roast beans that I had in the fridge (am awaiting delivery of fresh beans) and set the grinder to the recommended start setting of 8. I chose to use the pressurised large filter basket to start off with and selected the double shot button. (This, for me, is great as I could never correctly measure the amount of coffee. I know, I should of bought a measuring cup) The machine comes with a fitter tamper and a little trimming tool that allows you to measure the correct amount of grinds in the basket. The result was near perfect! A nice double shot with lovely crema on top. It was far better than I ever got with my Gaggia. Don't get me wrong, I think this first attempt was more to do with by lucky chance than anything but it was very pleasing. The milk frother is not half as powerful as the Gaggia but this also seemed to help (me) produce a nice creamy milk. The end result was a near perfect latte, I'd say 9 out of 10. I did, a couple of hours later try to replicate this but made the drink a little too strong. The machine allows you to adjust the amount of beans ground so a little tweaking is in order. Also, I have probably accidentally found the correct grind for the beans I was using and this will have to be adjusted with the different beans I will use in the future.

Anyway, it was a great start with the new machine. Yes, I know I used a pressurised basket and yes, it's a smaller basket (54mm I think) and yes the machine probably had a lot to do with my first attempt but, so what? I'm happy with it so far and can't wait to try some really fresh beans.

One thing I have decided to do, and I'm not sure if this has been covered, but to use mineral water? The water tank does have a filter but I bought a 5 litre bottle for £1 ($1.22). Is this what you who have espresso machine use?


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## MarkT

Hi Dave glad you're enjoying the machine. I use volvic and Waitrose essential half and half for the machine. Yorkshire water is hard and it's easy on the machine using bottled water plus it taste nicer. Especially in espresso and brews.

My default setting for the machine is grind setting 4 and front dial between 2-3 o'clock position. Currently I'm into brews at the moment as I'm on Curve's LSOL.

Good luck and have fun with the machine.


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## Dave M

Just home and back from Crosby Coffee where Sam showed me around the small premises. He showed me the industrial sized roasting machine and the different beans they have being prepared. I decided to buy their "Trio blend" that consists of Colombian, Ethiopian and Brazilian beans, hand roasted yesterday.


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## Dave M

MarkT said:


> Hi Dave glad you're enjoying the machine. I use volvic and Waitrose essential half and half for the machine. Yorkshire water is hard and it's easy on the machine using bottled water plus it taste nicer. Especially in espresso and brews.
> 
> My default setting for the machine is grind setting 4 and front dial between 2-3 o'clock position. Currently I'm into brews at the moment as I'm on Curve's LSOL.
> 
> Good luck and have fun with the machine.


Tried my new beans with your settings of 4 on the grinder. Measured 18.5 grams of beans and used the double non pressurised basket. Great result. Extraction time was 25 seconds and am. Ow enjoying a lovely strong latte.


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## MarkT

I do find that as I change beans i.e. Medium to light or dark the grind settings have to be adjusted. Also as the beans get stale I have to go down to 1 sometimes. Have a play with and see how it is.


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## MatthewBw

urbanbumpkin said:


> What did he recommend?
> 
> They also very kindly send me a bag of decaf when they returned my machine.


He recommended Puly descaler comes in orange packaging.


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## MatthewBw

Dave M said:


> I've just bought this machine about 10 minutes ago then saw this thread. Hope I've not made a mistake? YouTube videos look good.


I've grown to love the machine and realise with hindsight most of my issues were just inexperience. I also took heart that the engineer said the machine was easily serviceable and good parts. He also showed me the innards and heat shield and assured me the warm grinder was more likely from grinding than from elsewhere.

I'm very happy with my BE.


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## MatthewBw

MarkT said:


> I do find that as I change beans i.e. Medium to light or dark the grind settings have to be adjusted. Also as the beans get stale I have to go down to 1 sometimes. Have a play with and see how it is.


Yes I found exactly the same, i have a few favourite roasts so stick to those and record the settings which really makes it easy. Current fav is Coffee harry from Northern edge.


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## Dave M

Any recommendations of beans and where to buy will be greatly appreciated.


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## MarkT

Dave M said:


> Any recommendations of beans and where to buy will be greatly appreciated.


Depends on what you like really. I.e fruity, sweet, citrus? Go for light to medium roasts. Darker ones are more tobacco and earthy, chocolate, smokey, nutty and bitter. I like the lighter to medium ones as they are great in Espresso's and brews. This is my personal experience really. (I'm not a professional) lol

Lots of good roasters out there. The one I like are Hasbean, Rave Coffee 20% off on first order and free postage on over £25 spend. Jollybeans coffee are also good. They give you forum discount can't remember exactly but I think it's 10-15%! Square mile, foundry also have 15% forum discount and free postage £30 +. Too many to remember. Lol

There is a coffee festival in Manchester 5-6 November used to be called Cup North. If you could make it there you could talk to all the coffee roasters and experts on coffee and taste stuff. I would really recommend it.










The above is the discount code for the ticket.

Also I'm on Cfuk LSOL (Light Side of Life). At the moment on guest slots, trying to get in the regular one. It's very popular and the coffees recently have been very very good. £13 for 500 g on guest slot. As you're buying bulk you get the beans at a discounted price too.

Hope this helps. Sorry it's long winded. Lol


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## David N

After 6 months my machine stopped showing sufficient pressure on the gauge. Sage say this isn't the machine it is because the beans aren't fresh and advised me to use the dual wall filter for pre-packed beans although the instructions only say use the dual wall filter for ready ground coffee. I have used the single filter for the last six months with no issues.


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## ajohn

I have mine for a month and a bit now. I've found it better and better as I have learned to use it. I had some help recently in another thread on here but I don't think tasting espresso's directly helped in my case as I drink americano's that have now turned into long blacks as I can run the water while tamping the coffee. Reading some comments.

I timed the steam coming on - 10 secs. A dual boiler etc would cut that but what about the boiler heat up times. We have a drink when we want one and having to wait anything like 10 to 30mins depending on model just isn't on. Personally I don't care about a couple of ml of water getting into the milk anyway. I also steam semi skimmed. There is a trick to getting a sensible amount of foam and hot milk. The noise for foam is often mentioned but not getting the swirl on the opposite side of the jug from the nozzle when the main thing that is needed is heat isn't usually mentioned. My wife drinks capachino.

I've found the grinder surprisingly accurate, 9.3gm over 10 shots. As soon as I mention that the next puck was mostly dry but had a very slight film of water on the top. So next time I run one the scales will come out again to find out why. As I push the portafilter in and leave it there I find that it tends to fill towards the back. It is all in the filter basket though and can easily be part flattened with a finger or thump. I do find a bit often gets onto the portafilter when I tamp it. I just knock it off. It's just a few grains. I'm using monsooned malabar and it has to be ground fairly finely and it pretty light weight and fluffy. Even that only needs a setting of 5 to get the infusion correct. I also tried some blue mountain before I had really sorted out what needed to be done.That needed 4 but in practice probably finer.

I always preheat the portahead unless it's just ran another one. Sage suggest doing that with the basket in. I don't so preheat the head and the mug for the coffee by running a shot through it. I then put the basket in and shove it into the grinder. My single shot basket weighs 19.1gm so if setting the machine up I pop it out again and weigh it with the coffee in. I found that trying to weigh it in the portafilter a bit hit and miss. Sage could have made it easier to get the filter baskets out. I found a certain knife does it easily.

The infusion is the time it takes coffee to flow out of the portafilter. If too short the coffee needs to be ground finer which will upset the weight that comes out. If too long it needs to be ground coarser which again means getting the weight back again via the grinder timer. Initially I thought more coffee in meant more taste out. It's true to some extent but with my current beans 10gm for instance makes it harder to get the portafilter on as the shower screen is trying to compress the coffee. Dropping to 9gm may alter the taste because the infusion time could change. On the other hand leaving some room for expansion seems to be a good idea. I can see marks from the sprinkler in the puck that show the coffee has expanded and if the fixing screw shows too much in it then I've probably added a bit too much. Initially I just used this to set dosing and the drinks were ok. Now I have added setting up the infusion time they are stronger and there is some control of the taste. The pressure guage is always in the higher region as I have it set up but it shows a range and all of that can produce a decent drink even with virtually no infusion time. It depends on the bean and what people want to drink. Most of this is in the manual that comes with the machine. I just tamp as some one suggested - make sure that it's fully compressed.

My biggest criticism of the machine is the filter baskets that come with it. There will be beans that need an under filled double shot basket for a single shot - that means the pucks will be wet and a bit messy. There really should offer one with a weight range in between the 2 they provide. Few manufacturers do though. Maybe straight espresso drinkers don't need it but a lot more people drink long coffee's these days. Unlike some larger sizes of portafilter there is nothing available for in between weight which is usually 12gm - or the triple baskets either but I doubt if I will ever need one of those.

2ndry criticism is the size of the water tank. 3 times bigger would be a lot better. The drip tray isn't too bad but best emptied before the float gets as high as it can.

John

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## ajohn

The water film seems to have been a fluke. Maybe because I had just added beans to the hopper. The weight had drifted up to 9.5gm. I could see that via the top of the used puck using Sage''s inbuilt indicator - the screw that holds the shower screen in place. The mark it leaves was a lot more pronounced but could be clearer if the filter basket was over filled. The pressure gauge on this shot also went right up to the top of the espresso range marked on it. Taste is fine so just knocked back the grinder timer a touch.

These machines are so fiddly to use it makes me wonder why people use them - good coffee. I now get a 400ml mug of coffee with the same level of taste as costa etc but with a much better and smoother taste. I even add a bit more milk than I do at costa - still very little but much more of a pour rather than a couple of splashes.

John

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## MatthewBw

Have to say after a few years now I echo the thoughts above. I don't regret getting the machine and it makes good coffee. Now I've got more experience I get more consistent results.

The learning curve is steep but going back to my previous bean to cup machine at my parents the difference is night and day. The coffee from this machine certainly beats it hands down.

I've even got it consistent enough with the auto settings that my partner can make a coffee when I'm not around.


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## ajohn

MarkT said:


> Correction 3 mins 10 seconds for a full jug up to 63' C of steam milk. Lol


That sounds about right, maybe a bit short for a jug larger than the Sage one with enough milk for 2 12oz milk based and it probably getting a bit hotter than that. My son made those. I used the Sage jug just for my wife and I do overheat the milk for her. Tooooo long for that and again a 12oz drink. I've not timed it but would say somewhat longer than 1 min and less than 2. Milk heat too hot for latte art. It makes it too stiff - well that's what I find. She likes hot drinks.








They both drink long blacks now.

John

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## shimceltic

When I use the double shot basket the pressure barely registers when making a coffee. Anyone else the same?


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## hotmetal

Doesn't sound right. Grinder too coarse? How does the coffee taste? If watery and sour, tighten up the grind. When I've used my mate's BE the dial points round to 12 o'clock or at least at where it says 'espresso range'. Unless the dial is broken but the coffee is nice?


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## shimceltic

The dial and pressure work fine on single basket and get a good shot. The double basket just gets barely any pressure and the water comes out quick


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## ajohn

It's a pity Sage don't mark the gauge in bars. This threw me until I measured the actual pressure.

I make rather large drinks, bit over 12oz / 360ml / 360g how ever you want to measure it.

The single will do this with strong beans with the pressure well up just about reaching the point where it can't go any higher due to the over pressure valve. That dumps excess pressure into the drip tray so if people want they can get some idea how much water is going there. The double shot button with it's standard setting may work well giving a ratio of about 1 to 3 or so. What's happening here is that the brew is being done at 15 bar. It takes careful setting of the grinder other wise loads of water can go into the drip tray. I'd reckon a decent setting might put twice the shot into it but there aren't any rules.

So set the grinder to do this remembering that each time the grinder setting is changed there will still be some at the previous setting left in the grinder so waste say 1/2 a single dose visually each time it's changed then grind the shot. There is a bit of a problem then - the rate the grinds come out will change each time the setting is changed. It's possible to get round that by using the razor tool. The basket capacity varies with the type of bean as some are less dense than others. When sorted weight can be varied a bit. More within limits is like using a finer grind setting and that can be useful when using a stepped grinder.

I had a lot of trouble with the double brewed the same way. Given the type of beans I tend to use everything was too strong. I didn't realise that I had been brewing at 15 bar. The gauge readings in the manual should be used with the double but there is no harm in allowing it to go higher or lower if needed.

One BE user brewed to the manual and I suggested upping the pressure - their comment - the drink gets better and better. It's another way of controlling taste up or down from what sage suggest.

It's also worth knowing something about the fill height in the baskets. Too low and it will tend to produce rather wet and even soggy messy pucks in the extreme - NVG. Increase the fill height slowly and at some point the pucks will stick to the shower screen rather than remaining in the portafilter. Add surprisingly little and that stops happening. Add too much and strength goes down as the grounds can't expand. My favourite place to work was just past the point where the pucks stuck and it showed a very small pip caused by the socket in the screw that holds the shower screen in place. Then if the pip went smaller or more likely near disappeared slight tweak the grind timer for a little more grinds. If the pip gets larger / clearer do the opposite. They are really tiny tweaks. Doesn't work on all beans / grinder settings but well worth trying as it can save weighing grinds in.

The other aspect about the machine seems to be that it tries to produce volume based shots so if the buttons are used the shot time may vary. Can't be definite as I ungraded when I noticed that it appears to do this. I programmed a shot time with an empty basket in, silly thing to do maybe but it should have set a time. With grinds in the shot went on and on and on trying to get the same amount of water out.







So if anyone feels the need to do this probably better to use an empty pressurised basket.

I don't think it's wise to stick to recipes such as Xg in, Yg out in Zsecs time. I usually find that higher than 1 to 2 in to out ratios are best for most but not all beans. The best thing to do is make your drink and taste it not say oh shot volume out and tip it down the sink.








Upgrade - I'm sometimes tempted to go back to the BE.

John

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## dilwyn

Hi all - I know this post is quite old now, but I'm considering this machine as I currently only make drip coffee and want to start making espresso. I currently don't have an espresso machine and my grinder is a cheap one that doesn't grind fine enough for espresso. The breville (Sage) barista express is currently on offer here in the uk on amazon for £385 which really is my upper price limit so I'm wondering if I'm better off getting that or two separate machines for that money?

The other machine that keeps coming up on articles is the De'Longhi Dedica Style EC685M which I can get for £150 which effectively leaves me with £235 on a grinder before I spend what I would on the sage but then I'm not sure if I'd get the same value.

A fair few people on this thread saying they wish they'd get two machines instead so I'm curious what those would be and if it would mean spending more?

Thanks so much!


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## Robert pollock

Hi everyone. I just took delivery of the safe coffee machine today. I am happy with it however I can get get them pressure up when running the double espresso and it's not very crema. It's also not running an espresso over 20s as recommended (it's takes only about 10s!).

I am using Waitrose medium roast beans which I am thinking is the issue.

has anyone any advise and or coffee bean recommendations including settings to go with the beans?

many thanks.


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## MWJB

Robert pollock said:


> Hi everyone. I just took delivery of the safe coffee machine today. I am happy with it however I can get get them pressure up when running the double espresso and it's not very crema. It's also not running an espresso over 20s as recommended (it's takes only about 10s!).
> 
> I am using Waitrose medium roast beans which I am thinking is the issue.
> 
> has anyone any advise and or coffee bean recommendations including settings to go with the beans?
> 
> many thanks.


 Pull shots manually. into a cup on scales on the drip tray. Maybe start off aiming for 18g dose into 60g out?

Do not grind into the portafilter directly, grind into a cup/pot/jug then give it a shake, then transfer to the portafilter.

Check the weight of the ground coffee into the non-pressurised basket, use 11.0g in the single, use 18.0g in the double.

Waitrose sell Union, Illy & Roastworks beans which are as about as good as you will find on the High street. Buying beans roasted in the last 10-14 days would still be better, but specific recommendations are tricky without an idea of what you are looking for.

Why can you not currently grind finer?

At this point you are more concerned with the basic mechanics of pulling a shot, than finding a magic bean/beanstalk/golden goose  So focus on the above.


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## MarkoPolo

Hi @MatthewBw,

How are you finding the Sage BE now?


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