# Coffee grounds in cup



## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Hey everyone.

Not long ago I got used Gaggia Classic from this forum, and since then I've been trying to get perfect extraction - without success. So I am using stock portafilter with bigger basket, grinding it in Iberitial MC2 dosing 18g of RAVE coffee and tamping it (at least in my opinion) evenly. Yet I cannot achieve long enough extraction time. That's my last result: 18g grounds, 36g of espresso and just 16s, tastes acceptable but I'm looking for something better.










What can be wrong?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

When you say bigger basket ? can you take a pic ? Presumably this is a stock double basket

What tamper are you suing

Plus - roast date of the coffee ?

First thing to do though is to grind finer , i think the worm adjustment on the MC2 means you need to turn it quite a bit to have any real effect .....

The grinds that are in the cup look a little coarse but am wondering how they are getting in there ...


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

That's how it looks.

Of course I can make it finer but this result in even more grounds in a cup. Should it be like that?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

And that's the tamper. Coffee was roasted three days ago, but I got grounds in a cup no matter what coffee I use.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Is the a 57 or 58 mm tamper .. did you get any info when you bought it ?

Again grind finer if yu can to get to a point where you are getting more sweetness and a linger extraction time .

Are you on the finest setting for your grinder r do you have room to adjust ?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I got this tamper with my Gaggia from @gaggiamanualservice, maybe he can provide a bit more information about it.

My tamping procedure looking like this:

I'm getting my grounds in a basket then tamping very lightly, gently knocking the portafilter on a sides to get grounds off the sides of basket. Then I'm tamping hard it the middle and repeating this on NSWE as tamper doesn't fit perfectly.

I think I can still adjust grind as I stopped doing that just because I was scared that I will break the burrs, since I thought it's so fine that I'm getting grounds in my cup.

Anyway I'm gonna adjust it as soon as I will get back home, probably tomorrow afternoon and keep you updated.

Thanks!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok stop the knocking of the portafilter .

Your getting the coffee level then making un level inside by tapping the Pf

So make your tamping more simple get the coffee in the basket as even as you can before tamping , tap and shake in the the pf to achieve this . Then a simple press down tamp , polish if yu feel the need , but with no pressure . again getting it as level as you can . Force wise , try and do the same each time . I used to tamp until i could feel no more resistance in the coffee , if that makes sense .

Make what you do easy and repeatable prep wise

At three days post roast your coffee nay be a little fresh which can cause the extractions to be a little variable but you should still be abel to get a decent tasty cup and an extraction time of more than 20 seconds .

Are the scales you are using to 0.1g btw


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Sure, I will work on my technique. And the scales are just normal kitchen ones, with accuracy to 1g.


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## profondoblu (May 8, 2014)

Perhaps post a pic of the coffee puck after the shot. I struggle to fit 18g in my stock gaggia basket, more like 16-17g


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Sure, I will work on my technique. And the scales are just normal kitchen ones, with accuracy to 1g.


1g in dose variance is a fair bit , be worth picking up some scales that go to 0.1g for dose .

Your are weighing to coffee in the basket or pf ?


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

I'm putting it on a scale in portafilter.


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## Riz (Oct 19, 2015)

Interesting topic. I've been experiencing a similar issue with fines. I normally drink espresso at a ratio of 1:2ish extracted over 25-40sec depending on bean. I always find that I'm unable to drink the last drop of espresso as I can guarantee that there will be fines hidden in there. Below is a pic. Any ideas?

Edit: I use a basket which fits 18g or thereabouts. Normally tend to stick with 18g in, 36 or so out.


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

I agree with above. 18g is too much especially if it could be 19g and your grind is on the coarse side as it will take up too much room in the basket. I've had grinds in the cup before from over filling the basket.

Try using max 16g coffee. You just need the cheapo pocket scales of the bay for £5.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Regarding the grounds in the cup, I'd guess that someone has tried cleaning or unblocking the basket holes with a pin.

Try a new basket.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Okay guys, I'm getting new basket and scale off the eBay, wish me luck.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

The basket looks like it has a few dents round the rim.

Does it form a good seal with the gasket?

You're not getting dribbles down the side of the portafilter when pulling a shot? Just trying to understand how the grinds are getting in the cup

Also id be grinding finer to slow the shot down.

Get some cheapo scales,,will help with consistancy going forward


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

The portafilter seals perfectly, I haven't even noticed these dents before, they are so small in real life. I will be back home around noon today, will try grinding finer and keep you updated.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

I had the same issue with fines in the cup using the same grinder and basket as you. Unfortunately it was just a case of the grinder producing the fines and the basket having too large holes.

When I changed to a competition Strada/IMS basket it improved things and when I changed to a better grinder it improved even more.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Okey that's how it looks like:































I got 30s extraction, now I'm gonna wait for basket to arrive.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How did it taste


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

How old is your group gasket? Or even better, how clean is it? From the last picture, it looks like there is coffee on the basket lip, and that is either coming out during extraction (damaged basket or gasket) or the gasket is really dirty that the basket is not sealing properly against it.

With a mignon and a standard basket I used to get some fines ending up in the cup, which got reduced with a VST basket as it has small wholes. However, it was not as much as your pictures show. I'd try changing the basket - it looks like it had a really "hard knock life" - and ensure that the area around the group - gasket, dispersion plate and the group itself is nice and clean.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Also, make sure that by the time you lock the portafilter, there is no coffee on the lips and on the inner wall of the basket above the puck.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Sure, will do. how to get rid off this coffee on the sides of basket?

It tasted more balanced than before, more sweetness came in to the cup.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Sure, will do. how to get rid off this coffee on the sides of basket?
> 
> It tasted more balanced than before, more sweetness came in to the cup.


Just gently use your finger, or a tooth pick or something. Just be careful not to damage the puck.

As I have a VST basket, that pretty much disappeared after I bought a 58.5mm tamper which fits the basket much better.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Okay, I got VST basket and it's much better, I'm getting less than 1/4 grounds in a cup then before. I'm just not sure about tamping, when I'm gonna get rid of coffee on sides of basket should I tamp again or leave them loose?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Ideally buy a tamper to fit the basket, in the mean time try the North / S / E /W,tamping to push down the stray grounds. Loose grounds will float up into the dispersion screen.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Get a Made By Knock 585 which is made to fit VST baskets.


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Okay, with new basket and scale it got better. There is just one more thing that bothers me. When I'm pulling the shot it takes around 20s to get anything coming out of portafilter, then it starts dripping and then it slowly gains speed. Should it be like that? Extraction time is around 30s


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> Okay, with new basket and scale it got better. There is just one more thing that bothers me. When I'm pulling the shot it takes around 20s to get anything coming out of portafilter, then it starts dripping and then it slowly gains speed. Should it be like that? Extraction time is around 30s


20 seconds seems on the long side . When you say extraction time is 30 s are you timing this from when you switch on the pump ( this is how you should be timing it )

Ultimately be guided by taste , not a pre set time it takes to extract the shot. If it tastes good and balanced then that the main thing . I've had tasty shots form 20- 50 seconds before As you have not got naked portafilter then it's hard to tell what's going on up there .


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

30s of coffee dripping and 20s of waiting for it. On internet videos it seem more like 5s wait and 30s extraction but it comes way more consistent. Not starting slow and than speeding up.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Your timer should start the instant you hit the button to start the pump. 50 seconds (20s wait + 30s coffee) sounds very long but as Boots says, you should be guided by taste.

Having said that, I always start at 30 seconds and experiment from there.

Loosen your grind a bit.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

marcin.mielniczu said:


> 30s of coffee dripping and 20s of waiting for it. On internet videos it seem more like 5s wait and 30s extraction but it comes way more consistent. Not starting slow and than speeding up.


Coarsen the grind and let taste be the judge , not time, not you tube .

Always time from the moment you hit the button .


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## Sconner (Dec 10, 2016)

Okay it's been some time, I got a scale and a naked portafilter and that how it's look like:


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

From what I can see:

- Distribution is way off. There are lots of dead spots. Try using WDT;

- If you have a normal grinder and are single dosing, try having beans in the hopper instead.

- Coffee is coming out 2-3 seconds after you hit the pump. Should take, on a naked extraction, about 5 seconds or so;

- What's the pressure on the machine?

Bottom line is, you now have the tools to evaluate your extraction. Experiment until you are happy with the results.

Enjoy the coffee!


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