# Which Descaler For DTP Thermocoil?



## radam87 (Sep 27, 2017)

Just checked out Puly descaler sachets on amazon which the description states isn't suitable for thermocoil/block machines. Just single and dual boilers.

Any idea what descaler is suitable? Excluding the overpriced sachets sold by Sage

Many thanks


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

radam87 said:


> Just checked out Puly descaler sachets on amazon which the description states isn't suitable for thermocoil/block machines. Just single and dual boilers.
> 
> Any idea what descaler is suitable? Excluding the overpriced sachets sold by Sage
> 
> Many thanks


Does it happen to mention why it's not suitable? I can't think what I used last time I descaled. Might have been a delonghi mix that I had laying about. Probably killed my

Machine now!


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Citric acid will do fine.

(If the thermoblock has a s/steel coil, then Puly Descaler will be OK. I use the equivalent descaler on Jura B2C machines.)


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## radam87 (Sep 27, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Does it happen to mention why it's not suitable? I can't think what I used last time I descaled. Might have been a delonghi mix that I had laying about. Probably killed my
> 
> Machine now!


" Puly Caff Baby Descaler 10 Sachets Powder are the best choice for decalcifying Espresso Machines. Suitable for brass, copper, stainless steel boilers and parts. Not suitable for Aluminium Thermoblocks or Boilers."


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## radam87 (Sep 27, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Does it happen to mention why it's not suitable? I can't think what I used last time I descaled. Might have been a delonghi mix that I had laying about. Probably killed my
> 
> Machine now!


Panic over - water path is all stainless steel so should be all good!


Heating System:
1700W Thermocoil - Integrated stainless steel water path accurately controls water temperature.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Following advice on here as to when to descale I did the kettle. Very little in it, just a light film in a few places after several years of use. After doing the BE with the free Sage powder I tipped what came out into the kettle but it didn't touch it really. I bought some Astonish descaler. It removed the lot in under 2hr. It also mentions ideal for coffee machines - 500ml of water and 100ml of the descaler. It's citrus fruit acid based. £1 for 750ml from Savers. I might be tempted to use it on a coffee / espresso machine but not sure.

John

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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

> It's citrus fruit acid based


That would be citric acid then ?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It could be a blend of several of that types of acid or more likely some chemical concoction of citric acid. The instructions on coffee machines are get it in the machine and leave for an hour then boil followed by the usually fresh water to clean it out. 500ml wouldn't fill many machines that use boilers so an expensive option. The other descaler I noticed was this one

https://www.happydonkey.co.uk/machine-cleaning/commercial-coffee-machine-descaler/

Maybe for use now and again but I've no idea if it might come across materials in a machine that didn't like it. I'd be interested in views.

John

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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

> I'd be interested in views.


My main view, is that a lot of pretty packaged, fancy named propriety descalers are way overpriced, lol


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Calcinet is commercial descaler. I use it a lot for general descaling, group head backflushing, etc.

It's actually sulphamic acld crystals....as sold by Bravilor, Melitta, etc.

I use something else for heavy duty & bulk descaling.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The wiki suggests that it might be a mixture of some sort



> Cleaning agentSulfamic acid is used as an acidic cleaning agent, sometimes pure or as a component of proprietary mixtures, typically for metals and ceramics. It is frequently used for removing rust and limescale, replacing the more volatile and irritating hydrochloric acid, which is however cheaper. It is often a component of household descaling agents, for example, Lime-A-Way Thick Gel contains up to 8% sulfamic acid and pH 2-2.2,[12] or detergents used for removal of limescale. When compared to most of the common strong mineral acids, sulfamic acid has desirable water descaling properties, low volatility, and low toxicity. It forms water-soluble salts of calcium and ferric iron.
> 
> Sulfamic acid is preferable to hydrochloric acid in household use, due to its intrinsic safety. If erroneously mixed with hypochlorite based products such as bleach, it does not form chlorine gas, whereas the most common acids would; the reaction (neutralization) with NH3, produces a salt, as depicted in the section above.
> 
> It also finds applications in the industrial cleaning of dairy and brew-house equipment. Although it is considered less corrosive than hydrochloric acid, corrosion inhibitors are often added to the commercial cleansers of which it is a component. It can be used for descaling home coffee and espresso machines and in denture cleaners.


John

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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Nope, Calcinet is pure sulphamic acid crystals (note english spelling !).

NB Do not have anything to do with hydrochloric acid, it's nasty stuff.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Going back to the OP's topic when I descaled my BE I used Sage's descaler. The one that came with the machine and then bought some more off them. There price includes postage and now they even have a web page where it and other bits and pieces can be ordered. As I put the stuff that came out of the BE into our kettle I'd say it's not as powerful as some citric acid descalers.

Water is pretty soft here so I don't think it will need doing very often. Converting from degrees it comes out at 15mg/l so for each l of water for steam that's circa what will finish up in the machine. No hissing etc when hot water is run off. Plenty after a shot is pulled but that's just a residue of water so less on that circuit.

Volvic comes out at 10 or 11mg/l depending one where the info comes from. TDS though is 110mg/l. Seven Trent don't provide that figure. That could go either way but as tap water isn't mineral water it could be lower.

Thermoblocks are probably more tolerant of scale than boilers. It seems that they consist of a spiral tube surrounded by a block off aluminium that contains the heating element. Hard to be sure about that though without actually looking at one. As things hiss etc after a shot is pulled it looks like Sage might be controlling the actual water temperature on the BE not the temperature of the "block". That's the important thing to control really all things considered.

John

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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

The s/steel small bore coil inside a themoblock is more susceptible to scaling up than a larger boiler.

The Jura B2C thermoblocks have Omega sensors attached to control either hot water or steam temperatures.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Sage's price includes postage if enough is spent. I've decider to stick with their backflush tablets as I have some. The clean me light on the BE takes some time to come on so they aren't used that often really. I might switch to some one else's tablets after they have gone but that's some time away.

Descaler I am not so sure. One of my foibles - not too keen on boxes that could contain many more so have already bought a box of Puly Baby. When it came it was marked Puly Cleaner. That box comes nice and full and is cheaper. All I can't make my mind about is how often to descale. Some count of clean me cycles. Probably 3. It's suitable for bean to cup where the fluid is just run through the machine so should be good for thermoblocks. It's just citric and tartaric acid.

The filters are more difficult. A read of amazon reviews suggests that the cheap ones that are available don't fit properly. Maybe some one didn't soak them long enough or maybe they don't fit correctly.

John

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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Sage's price includes postage if enough is spent. I've decider to stick with their backflush tablets as I have some. The clean me light on the BE takes some time to come on so they aren't used that often really. I might switch to some one else's tablets after they have gone but that's some time away.
> 
> Descaler I am not so sure. One of my foibles - not too keen on boxes that could contain many more so have already bought a box of Puly Baby. When it came it was marked Puly Cleaner. That box comes nice and full and is cheaper. All I can't make my mind about is how often to descale. Some count of clean me cycles. Probably 3. It's suitable for bean to cup where the fluid is just run through the machine so should be good for thermoblocks. It's just citric and tartaric acid.
> 
> ...


I've had the filters from amazon and they seem ok, possibly slightly bigger so it's a squeeze but still fit all the same


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

@joey I can't use the kettle as a guide to descaling now. Bought a hot water dispenser. It boils what ever amount is needed. It seems that will come up with descale me at some point. Might use that as an indication. It actually boils the water so should scale up quicker than an espresso machine.

John

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