# Anyone taken their Mythos part?



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have two for me and my son. On the front control buttons, if you take the whole panel out then remove the circuit board, you are left with the plastic cowling with 5 buttons in it. Obviously you press the buttons which then make contact with a microswitch. Having taken both circuit boards off and swopped them over and then tried them on my machine, everything worked on both sets.

Get it back home and none of the buttons work on his machine. The next move will be to swop his complete assembly with mine. I forecast that his will work on mine and mine will not work on his. Initially the buttons on his were sticky so we presumed they were greaser dirty. If my panel does not work on his then presumably it would suggest one of the power supplies to the board?

Any thoughts


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Just out of curiosity what were you trying to achieve from swapping your circuit board with his?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, if my board worked in my machine and his did not, it would isolate the problem.

Next is if my complete housing does or does not work in his I think


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Well, if my board worked in my machine and his did not, it would isolate the problem.
> 
> Next is if my complete housing does or does not work in his I think


In my experience it will be Something on the board that's fried, could a power rail, could be loads of things tbh, I would google Mac repairs & look for someone kitted out for micro soldering, if their rates are cheaper than the boards, that is.


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

Sorry, just re read your post, thought you meant buttons by "sets" initially


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

oursus said:


> In my experience it will be Something on the board that's fried, could a power rail, could be loads of things tbh, I would google Mac repairs & look for someone kitted out for micro soldering, if their rates are cheaper than the boards, that is.


agreed, but, let me be quite clear. We have a board with micro switches sitting in a housing with buttons. Mine works fine in my machine. His will not work in his machine. He brought his housing and board to mine and we put his board into my housing and vice versa and they both worked. We then put his board back into his housing but on my machine and it worked. He then puts it back into his machine, nothing. Power is there but no button functionality. So, if I put my working set pinto his, then the only thing I can think of is the ribbon cable


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> agreed, but, let me be quite clear. We have a board with micro switches sitting in a housing with buttons. Mine works fine in my machine. His will not work in his machine. He brought his housing and board to mine and we put his board into my housing and vice versa and they both worked. We then put his board back into his housing but on my machine and it worked. He then puts it back into his machine, nothing. Power is there but no button functionality. So, if I put my working set pinto his, then the only thing I can think of is the ribbon cable


Eliminate that, certainly, it's easy to damage them, when working. Are they a pin connection, or something more sophisticated?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I will photo it tomorrow. The board has a 3 pin plug that slides in I think


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

just check the other end of daniels ribbon cable


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I will photo it tomorrow. The board has a 3 pin plug that slides in I think


If they are edge of board connectors, the jaw like contacts get bent fairly easily, pair of tweezers and a gentle touch can sort them (tbh eBay will find a replacement easily enough)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> just check the other end of daniels ribbon cable


I have asked him to do that but I think he has taken it to bits too many times today!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

More help needed! Taking the display panel to pieces but leaving it powered up. It behaves perfectly normally however, there are 5 function buttons which depress onto microswitches. The first 3 are the timer buttons, the second two, function. None of the buttons work when you directly press the microswitches. Now, my electronic knowledge stopped two sentences ago!

Any ideas?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

How does it behave perfectly normally but also not work? You say there are 5 function buttons but only 2 are function and 3 timer, when do they behave and when do they not work?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> How does it behave perfectly normally but also not work? You say there are 5 function buttons but only 2 are function and 3 timer, when do they behave and when do they not work?


sorry, recap, the display shows the time set for button one and the grinder grinds to that figure but when you press any of the buttons the display does not alter


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It may just be me but I am finding it very difficult to understand the problem from your descriptions.

So far I understand that when the electronics from your sons Mythos are plugged into yours, they work without issue, so you know they work at least.

Do your last few posts refer to using your sons electronics in his machine?

How many buttons are there in total? Can you step by step go through them and what works and what doesn't.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

when you press any microswitch, nothing happens!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

But if you plug this unit into your grinder, then it works?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is plugged in in the pic. The buttons do not respond when pressed


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

video if this works!

http://vid1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/dfk41/EBA80467-D5E8-4205-AE18-7F4037640FC2_zpssabbzve4.mp4


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I can see the buttons not working, but I didn't know if that was yours or your sons machine.

You originally said everything worked when plugged into your machine, what's changed?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

His panel in the video clip works on my machine but not on his. Must be the ribbon cable?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So in the clip it's attached to his machine?

Ribbon cable is the next thing to test, but where does the ribbon cable go? What is it attached to? An electronic part is much much more likely to fail than a cable that has barely been moved (unless rust/corrosion/oxidisation is playing a part)

Does you panel work in his machine?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Does the board work on the other mythos or is it faulty in both machines ?

From my days fixing printers there were two common issues with these problems. If the switch logic is a matrix, having one switch permanently closed could cause strange things to happen. More commonly it was one of the IC's controlling the switch logic that had failed. Things have moved on a bit since then and I'd imagine that the switches are linked to a dedicated chip.

Looking at the pcb, it all looks to be surface mount stuff so not really home repairable if a chip has failed.

My only help would be to meter the switches and see if they go open / closed when you press them


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

questions answered above

sounds strange that the board doesnt work on one of the machines.

I would expect the display to change if power is applied (which it is)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am going to bring both grinders to mine tomorrow night. Last tim we did this, using my machine as the test machine, when his parts were fitted toby machine they worked,but when taken back to his the buttons on them do not work. You press the switch but the display does not change. Put in my machine, all is well


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Right, finally managed to get both grinders together. the upshot is, both complete panels work in my grinder, neither work when in his. The only possible answer is the ribbon cable. We took the bottom off and cleaned the plugs at both ends but still nothing. So, will order the cable and wait for Italy to ship.

Many thanks to all


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

what type of cable is it David ? You may be able to get one away from mythos


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Just watched the video and its a 10 way IDC connector

Ebay have them - not sure on the length you need

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-54mm-Pitch-10Pin-10-Wire-F-F-IDC-Connector-Motherboard-Flat-Ribbon-Cable-48cm-/121659358861?hash=item1c53767e8d:g:dfoAAOSwN81WEmu0


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

So... Did you try plugging in your complete control panel including the ribbon cable into his machine? If that still doesn't work then it's not going to be the cable but something further down the line...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

working dog said:


> Just watched the video and its a 10 way IDC connector
> 
> Ebay have them - not sure on the length you need
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-54mm-Pitch-10Pin-10-Wire-F-F-IDC-Connector-Motherboard-Flat-Ribbon-Cable-48cm-/121659358861?hash=item1c53767e8d:g:dfoAAOSwN81WEmu0


Andrew, that is spot on!!! Thank you so much. Eureka were not willing to send one over on its own and Jaguar did not stock it. Will nip and measure it now but that is going to be about right at 48 cm.

cheers again


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

stevenh said:


> So... Did you try plugging in your complete control panel including the ribbon cable into his machine? If that still doesn't work then it's not going to be the cable but something further down the line...


No...I just swopped control panels around. Since neither work in the second machine and both work in the first machine, the only thing it can be is there cable as there is nothing else left!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just to finish this off, a shop 2 miles away will give me cable in whatever length I want plus the ends and he assures me that all I need is put it into a small vice and crimp....off to look for some crimps now!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Buy a few inches more than you need to take into account the cable returning over the connector for the strain relief


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> No...I just swopped control panels around. Since neither work in the second machine and both work in the first machine, the only thing it can be is there cable as there is nothing else left!


What is the cable attached to on the other end?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> What is the cable attached to on the other end?


I think it goes straight onto the motor but will have another look tonight.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> I think it goes straight onto the motor but will have another look tonight.


I think thats unlikely, a ribbon cable usually carries multiple signals (a motor is on, off) and is too thin to carry the current a large motor requires. I could well be wrong as I only have a passing knowledge of electronics, but I would guess it goes to some type of controller box, and if so this could be the source of the fault.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

makes sense, so fingers crossed it is not that! it goes to a power supply box. i will check on that now to see if it is available


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

By taking the board and ribbon out of yours, and testing it in your sons, you should be pretty close to eliminating all the possibilities.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> By taking the board and ribbon out of yours, and testing it in your sons, you should be pretty close to eliminating all the possibilities.


BB have an order in with Eureka and the cut off point for adding to it is tomorrow lunch. I will go and buy a cable this afternoon and as you say, that pretty much will tell whats what...blinking grinders!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Something sounds strange with this

The button function logic will, more than likely, all be housed on the PCB with the buttons and display

The only reasons I can think of for something away from the board causing the buttons to stop functioning are a missing voltage or the buttons not working if an interlock switch isnt closed / open

As the display is working, there is a voltage applied although it may require another voltage (say 5 and 12V)

I suppose that the switches may take their ground from another pin on the ribbon cable but I would imagine that they use the same ground

Will be interesting to hear the outcome of this problem


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

working dog said:


> Something sounds strange with this
> 
> The button function logic will, more than likely, all be housed on the PCB with the buttons and display
> 
> ...


Working backwards as I have, then if it is not the cable (unlikely) then there a few other things it can be. My sons board, as a whole enclosure the fitted to mine, has full functionality. When fitted to his, you switch it on and receive the usual MAcdiscs screen, then reverts to the time set for buttoning, without the need to press anything. No other buttons do anything (but work on mine)








The cable attaches to the part in the second image which bolts onto the bottom lid, part number 4110.0002


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

As I said in an earlier post, I would consider it much more likely to be a failure of one of those components than a failure of the wire, there just isn't much to go wrong with a wire unless it is in a position where it is constantly stressed or can suffer from corrosion. It is however one of the easiest components to test, I just wouldn't get my hopes up.

Hopefully, that part the wire plugs into is not what has failed, as a quick google gives it a price of 157EUR.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

If you have both Mythii in bits it will be easy to isolate the problem. Plug the known good cable into the power supply of the problem machine. If the display works, its the power supply, if it doesnt, chances are its the cable


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

It could also be simply that the cable is loose connecting to the other box which could result in a loose or shorting connection so I'd check that first.

That box will contain some control logic and the relays for switching the motors.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Have a cable now. Just have to make it up. The Mythos is pretty easy to take pieces so I am certain by tonight we will have isolated the issue. I hope it is the cable/connection though that is too simple! Will let you know what happens


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, as thought, replacing the cable did no good at all.....this is what is in the parts list as the power supply to the display board

  

and this is the only other thing which seems unconnected which is a capacitor. Should I order one of those whilst I am on?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Has the display ever worked ? And have you tried the good power supply in the bad machine ? Would imagine that the cap is for the motor side of things rather than the display


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

working dog said:


> Has the display ever worked ? And have you tried the good power supply in the bad machine ? Would imagine that the cap is for the motor side of things rather than the display


The display works perfectly when slotted into my machine. When fitted to the duff machine, the display lights up as it should then displays 4.5 seconds which is the corresponding time for button one. That display never changes no matter what buttons you press (but works absolutely fine when in my machine). Does not make sense!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

It does but I would expect the display to function fine if the power was good and the screen powered up. Before I bought a power supply I'd try the good power supply in the bad machine


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

working dog said:


> It does but I would expect the display to function fine if the power was good and the screen powered up. Before I bought a power supply I'd try the good power supply in the bad machine


I have just tried to switch power supplies but unfortunately one of the feet screws has a damaged head and is rusted in so I cannot take the base off mine!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Is it a raised head? A pair of needle pliers may get it out if so.

If not you may be able to test the other part with a multimeter, but there is one of those in my mazzer without a control panel, so I can't see how it would be stopping the buttons working... Then again not can I see how a power supply would be...

It's a risky movie to buy that power supply without knowing its at fault as it's expensive, I would try to get that screw out one way or another to test with.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

On second thoughts so you need to remove the power supply box in order to test in the other machine? Can you

It just place the whole plate near enough to the other machine to plug in the control panel to it?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Googling that Cubic Ricerca box shows that they also make boxes that are alternatives to the Gicar box in an espresso machine. As I understand it that box is essentially the control box that is programmed to run the machine....

That means my money in on that box being the culprit.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> On second thoughts so you need to remove the power supply box in order to test in the other machine? Can you
> 
> It just place the whole plate near enough to the other machine to plug in the control panel to it?


Unfortunately not.....the 4 feet have to come off for the base plate to be lifted out. I think I will just put this on the back burner and take my time. I have to place the order tomorrow to receive it in 3 or 4 weeks and it is quite possible that the part, which will be £100 or so does not fix the issue anyway.

I have a fall back grinder but have to go and pick it up. If I do that, then can just take our time. I have no idea how to use aMultimeter either!


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

So did you use the new cable or the cable from your machine?

Do you have a circuit diagram for the Mythos?

Do you need to remove the base to get access to your power supply? Depending on how the base is constructed, you might be able to remove all other screws then rotate the base to free the rusted screw...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> Googling that Cubic Ricerca box shows that they also make boxes that are alternatives to the Gicar box in an espresso machine. As I understand it that box is essentially the control box that is programmed to run the machine....
> 
> That means my money in on that box being the culprit.


Yep, that part on the parts diagram is called the display power source but it is probably lost in translation a bit! I cannot see it being anything other than that part. I will sleep on it!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I agree, I can't see how it is anything else.

If the box is removable from your sons machine, then can you remove it and place it next to the box on your machine and swap the wires over?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> I agree, I can't see how it is anything else.
> 
> If the box is removable from your sons machine, then can you remove it and place it next to the box on your machine and swap the wires over?


You have to remove the base in order to access the power supply!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

stevenh said:


> So did you use the new cable or the cable from your machine?
> 
> Do you have a circuit diagram for the Mythos?
> 
> Do you need to remove the base to get access to your power supply? Depending on how the base is constructed, you might be able to remove all other screws then rotate the base to free the rusted screw...


Will try this suggestion now.....many thanks


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Ahh I see what you mean now.

Drilling a hole in the screw and then using a screw extractor is another option.

Or just drilling the head off


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you get fed up i'll take it off your hands


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Right, managed to get the bottom plate off, and switched the black boxes over and surprise surprise, when fired up, the buttons still do not work. I repeat though, if I take the whole unit out and put it into my Myths, it works fine, so that rules out the board for me. Think I will just put them back together and forget about it for a bit!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Wait, so if you put your working box into the non working machine, it doesn't make a difference?

So it's not the control panel, it's not the cable and its not the box?

Doesn't that just leave the white tubular thingamajig?


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Ok, so taking the complete unit (display, board, power supply, capacitor) from your sons machine to yours works fine? Taking the complete unit from your machine to your sons does not work?

What else have you not tried to change?

Can you take some pics of the various parts? I tried looking online can't get any diagrams for the Mythos...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That's the capacitor.


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

There are several cables plugging into that box, trace back to see where they all go...

Also double check that you have a good 'earth' connection, maybe loose in the plug or inside the case?

Are there any switch sensors that could be shorted or left in 'open' state which may be preventing the control board from proceeding?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I was thinking poor earth too but my money is on an interlock - don't know what the inputs are to the power supply and can't understand why there would be a switch that stopped the buttons working. SFQ time - is the hopper switch connected to the power supply ? Will try my buttons with the hopper removed and report back


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I will take all the photos you need, button tonight. The parts are too costly to buy willy nilly. Maybe a multimeter with someone who knows how to work it would help!


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Multimeter is very useful, especially since you have another machine to compare against you can measure the voltage and resistance of the inputs to that box and compare... Just trace back the input to see what it is to select correct function of multimeter.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

stevenh said:


> I tried looking online can't get any diagrams for the Mythos...


Got a .pdf here which might help you out lad. Can't seem to get a working chrome browser link to work so here's a screengrab.










If it was a circuit board diagram you were after, sorry but don't have one of those?


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Yeh was trying to work out where all the other cables to that box came from whether they were additional switches or sensors...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The way the electrics work is the whole display unit 4100.0012 sits on the front of the machine. This includes the housing and the circuit board. The board is the only electrical part. this is connected by the ribbon cable, 4110.0004 to the control box 4110.0002. This has 6 wires running off it that I presume are for the 5 buttons on the plastic control panel and the micro witch for the pf activation. The only other thing is the capacitor that sits next to the black control box, 1013.1400 but this does not seem to be part of it.

As stated, if I remove the whole cowling including the board from the duff machine and put it in mine, everything works. If I reverse that, nothing works. I have swopped the cable and the black box mentioned above.

Bugger, I have just noticed something obvious. 4110.0009 is called an LED support and it does have an electrical cable, but I always tuck it out of the way...report back


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

So from your diagram below on the left side of the black box is the ribbon cable which goes to your display board and on the right side there are 6 plug in cables, where do each of these go?



dfk41 said:


> Well, as thought, replacing the cable did no good at all.....this is what is in the parts list as the power supply to the display board
> 
> 
> 
> and this is the only other thing which seems unconnected which is a capacitor. Should I order one of those whilst I am on?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have not raced them (yet) I am pretty certain that the multimeter will show the fault....sometime tomorrow!


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

If one of the plugs are for a switch, you can disconnect on both machines and see if get same behaviour...

Double check earth connection is secure, it will probably be connected to a lug on the case somewhere...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

With a multi meter you can test the capacitor. One other point to check is where the mains cable enters the machine, release the pinch screw (holding the cable in the black block) pull the cable partially through or back and check where the screw has been. Feel for depressed area possibly indicating a broken / damaged L / N /or E.

Use the multi meter to check ends for good continuity ie no broken strands inside cable.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

It looks like the bottom 4 are mains in and power to the motor

6 & 7 are connected to some switch - is this the switch under the hopper (no hopper = no power to the motor / burrs?) or is it the switch that you press the pf onto ? Suspect its the latter

My money is now on the power supply


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Try disconnecting the top two from both machines and see if they exhibit same behaviour.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

stevenh said:


> Try disconnecting the top two from both machines and see if they exhibit same behaviour.


Ive just tried simulating the PF switch being constantly closed on my Mythos and the buttons still function fine - will be interesting to see if this is the issue with Davids


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Right, here we go! We started from scratch again. This is masons panel fitted to my machine

http://vid1290.photobucket.com/albums/b534/dfk41/297E0F34-E5A3-4919-B3B5-789EEC81907F_zpsaehzl07h.mp4

As you can see, everything works. My son took it to his friends who is a sparky. HE has tested everything and there is nothing that does not appear to work as it should. I have replaced the ribbon cable and swopped over the black box. This morning I swopped the other small circuit boards over and was still left with a part that worked in my machine, not working or making his machine work.

On Monday a friend is coming over and we will through tall again. The earths have been checked.....what next!


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Maybe try replacing parts on your sons machine with parts from yours piece by piece until his one starts working?

Guessing you will be able to replace everything apart from the motor relatively easily?


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Can you take a picture of all the parts in your sons machine? Maybe there's something else we can spot from the pics? Interested in all the electrical connections and where they go...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have done that. I have not fitted his parts onto mine but if my working parts do not make the display work correctly that won't help! I am going to leave it a couple of days!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, it is sorted and t was always going to be something simple. This morning we put the grinders side by side and started checking and swopping the components over. Nothing happened until I thought to check the microswitch for the pf. It had 3 connections and t ties. Compared against mine, one of his connectors was on the wrong pin. Swopped it over, normal service resumed!

Thanks to all who have contributed with their suggestions. It has been fun and I almost consider myself to be a Mythos expert now!


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

If only all such problems were so simple. Serious advantage there in having a second, working, machine.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Good to hear that its now working

Strange fault. I would expect the wrong connection would give the same symptoms as me switching on the mythos with the pf engaged on the switch. And even stranger that the display worked in the 'problem' grinder at one point

Suppose all that matters is that the grinder is now working


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