# Steam wand steam at attachment nut - can’t seem to fix



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

My ecm mechanika has started to leak steam from where it attaches to the horizontal arm - see pic.

It started after I loosened and then re tightened to fix loose steam wand.

But now I can get it to stop bubbling steaming water just above where the thin locking nut attached to the thread.

I've tried tightening to the long nut so much I'm worried I'll damage the machine if I tighten any more.

Any tips? It's driving me mad.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Not familiar with that particular fitting but suspect there is an "O" ring or seal damaged near the ball or damage / score on the ball. Dismantle and check. If all appears OK whilst off, wind several turns of PTFE tape around the spigot (threaded section), fit wand, adjust to required movement then tighten locknut.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Not familiar with that particular fitting but suspect there is an "O" ring or seal damaged near the ball or damage / score on the ball. Dismantle and check. If all appears OK whilst off, wind several turns of PTFE tape around the spigot (threaded section), fit wand, adjust to required movement then tighten locknut.


Steam leak is at the top of that pic carajillo where the short nut sits on top of the long one - not at the wand ball


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I appreciate that ,BUT the water / steam is escaping from around the ball joint and working up the spigot thread to escape at the locknut.

Is there a teflon washer / seal missing from between main nut and locknut ?


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Sometimes threads are sealed at the factory with a setting sealing compound, once disturbed it doesn't seal.

I would use a few turns of PTFE tape too. If for some reason that didn't work, you could try a Dowty washer.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> I appreciate that ,BUT the water / steam is escaping from around the ball joint and working up the spigot thread to escape at the locknut.
> 
> Is there a teflon washer / seal missing from between main nut and locknut ?


Right I see what you're saying

There is a white washer between main nut and locknut


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

If the ptfe soliton works isn't that hiding a problem with a leak at the ball joint then?

The wand has started to not stay in position lately which is why I wanted to try and fix it.

Moving the locknut and the main nut further up that thread has solved the moving wand issue - that's ok isn't it, it doesn't need to be a certain distance?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Right I see what you're saying
> 
> There is a white washer between main nut and locknut


Can you take a photo with it removed?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I can do joey - before that I want to let it all cool down and see if I can tighten locking and main nut a bit more and see if that fixes it


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

Hi Kenny, I am very sorry to hear about your troubles. I will give you my take on the situation but please consider it with more than a pinch of salt







.

I would undo the long and short nut, would use some food grade silicone grease to cover the o-ring nesting with the ball joint. Then I will use PTFE tape to make a few turns as advised already. Tighten the lock up so the wand sits in an (is erected the right word here?) position and see what happens.

I very much hope this could resolve the issue. After all the nozzles should not have high resistance against the steam coming out of the boiler to have steam leaking out at the top of the wand. Have you checked the nozzles too (I suspect everything is not blocked but I am just stating the obvious).

Good luck!

Cheers


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Everything seems ok? Machine is just under a year old.

Worth stretching the spring a little before I put it back together?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

John Yossarian said:


> Hi Kenny, I am very sorry to hear about your troubles. I will give you my take on the situation but please consider it with more than a pinch of salt
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you sure about the silicone grease John - won't that make the wand movement even looser?


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

If I remember correctly, aren't/weren't you scheduled to take it into BB for annual maintenance? Is it yet to go there, or did it come back already?

Since the hot water wand on the other side should be of identical build inside, maybe have a glancing comparison? Is your lock nut there also that low?


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Just saw the photos.. Looks like you might be missing a part? Where's the rubber ring that stops metal joints connecting directly with each other?


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Comparing your original post picture and this stock photo... There's clearly a gap on yours that shouldn't be there.

Is there a chance the thread could be cross threaded?

If not, when screwing in for reassembly, I know it can be tough, but are you pushing back against the tension of the spring while you screw it back in? All the way? Up to the top..


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Well I've applied ptfe and that's sorted the leak - thanks guys.

I've also threaded it further and that's sorted the loose wand - though it's now threaded further than the water wand..... not an issue? See photos - steam is first pic then water


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

As you can see I've damaged the nuts as part of this. If anyone knows where to source proper rubber capped spanners I'd be so grateful - masking tape on the end isn't really working well


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> As you can see I've damaged the nuts as part of this. If anyone knows where to source proper rubber capped spanners I'd be so grateful - masking tape on the end isn't really working well


I used to hate going anywhere near the Rocket with a spanner. We tried plastic capped adjustables but in the end resorted to rubber gloves. It's grippy, for one thing. I remember it was important to get the adjustment spot on


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks Mildred - that's got to be better than what I'm currently doing


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Good to see it's back to normal.

So was it just the case of the nut not being screwed on deep enough was the reason for the leak? Or you think Teflon tape is still playing the part?

Anyway, I've heard nothing but discouraging things about those rubber tipped spanners. If I recall correctly, they are prone to slipping off, being a bit squishy and all, and the out of control wrench head banging into more delicate parts and creating potentially bigger damages..

The best advice I received was to file off and smoothen the sharp edges from your tools as necessary.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I think the tape has helped.

I'd still like some advice on whether it's wound too far up the thread now. Jordan at BB is getting back to me.

To be fair it came back like this after a service though Jordan is helping me sort it.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> As you can see I've damaged the nuts as part of this. If anyone knows where to source proper rubber capped spanners I'd be so grateful - masking tape on the end isn't really working well


Apply a few turns of electric tape to your spanner, ensuring no uncovered part touches the chrome finishing of the machine. In fact, my spanner used for machine maintenance were permanently covered in electrical tape.

I do have the spanner with plastic jaw covers. If you can use that, use that, but it can slip easily if you don't have an extremely tight fit!


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

kennyboy993 said:


> Are you sure about the silicone grease John - won't that make the wand movement even looser?


I did believe that there was a o-ring involved but it seems they have solved it by fitting the copper part and the ball joint. No need in this case. I am glad you sorted it out.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

If it were me and my machine, as far as the position of the nuts are concerned, I'm comfortable with that. Granted, I wouldn't know how they were positioned when you got the machine new, but simply judging against the stock picture, they seem fine to me.

What I wouldn't be so alright about is if it came back like that from being serviced, leaking and all..

I'm only speculating because I don't know what your service maintenance should have covered or addressed. I'm not sure if any queries about the wand was made at the time of check in. But to check a machine is in working order upon return to owner is not being demanding by any measure of standard. More so if the specific issue was addressed and made aware beforehand.

Nice and helpful as they are, complaints and criticisms given constructively to those who take pride in quality of work and service, hopefully won't go unnoticed.

As a business owner, I'm always happy to hear the true stories from my customers.

When, if and how you address the issue with them is for you to balance , but always better sooner than later. And again, if it were me, I'd be on a higher state of alert and be more vigilant about anything related to the machine for the next few days. Look under the machine for water leaks a lot more frequently than usual, for example. Listening out for odd noises.. If after a week, all seems good, back to peaceful times ☺(without trying to be an alarmist, if one part was loose, who knows what else might be..)


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

No damage problem if you're using good quality spanners (CRV: Britool, Teng, Bahco, MAC, etc).


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Glad you got sorted. While you're on get some pictures of the knobs and how they attach please


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

have a look at how they are constructed






and

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/no-burn-wands-and-steam-tips

It might just be the brass cup the ball nestles in needing some lubrication (or the little brass cup is displaced. Perhaps the white Teflon washer is missing. Also the main reason they won't tighten is the bottom washer is damaged or split...this is the washer at the bottom of the ball towards the steam tip end. The ball actually seals against this when the nut is done up and it adds the friction usually required to keep the wand in place as well as seal it.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks Dave and other guys.

I can't tell if the washer that touches the ball damaged - it looks ok but is hard to see properly.

It's behaving as it should now though I had to move both nuts further up the main thread in order to compress the spring further - this created the friction required - hope this is ok.

Is this is the right fix then I assume the spring has just lost some force over time and/or the ball has worn - this not unusual?


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

The spring will lose some tension over time.

The ball joint remain wear-free in a domestic environment: Even commercial ball joints wear very slowly - it's the rubber o-ring inside the joint that can wear quickly.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

espressotechno said:


> No damage problem if you're using good quality spanners (CRV: Britool, Teng, Bahco, MAC, etc).


Thanks for the tip - if I pop on to amazon or diy.com to get a set which of those 4 you think I should try to get?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Love the bahco stuff. That's my brand of choice. I used to always buy snap-on.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

joey24dirt said:


> Love the bahco stuff. That's my brand of choice. I used to always buy snap-on.


I prefered the nickel finish of blue-point which is handy since they're snap-on's budget range 

Halfords professional tools are also well worth a look & quite often on sale. Like snap-on (& others) they're tooled to turn the nut on the flat not the corners.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

espressotechno said:


> The spring will lose some tension over time.
> 
> The ball joint remain wear-free in a domestic environment: Even commercial ball joints wear very slowly - it's the rubber o-ring inside the joint that can wear quickly.


Thanks buddy - good insight.

Even with my inexperience I got the sense everything was fine, just the spring getting weaker.

Shame I had to make a big deal of it, damage nuts, overtighten etc.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Would you get an adjustable boys or a set within the right size range?

The cheap adjustable I've been using has an awfully crude adjustment screw


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Would you get an adjustable boys or a set within the right size range?
> 
> The cheap adjustable I've been using has an awfully crude adjustment screw


I'd get the correct one for the nut. No chance of it slipping then. Plus adjustables can be a bit lumpy to get in tight spots.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Hmm can't find a decent set of either of those on amazon - think a visit to b&q is in order


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Hmm can't find a decent set of either of those on amazon - think a visit to b&q is in order


Halfords do a good range. I'll post you my trade card haha


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ha ha ah yes Halfords also


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

kennyboy993 said:


> Ha ha ah yes Halfords also


Can't go wrong with a lifetime guarantee.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

True story. I had a set of wobble head ratchet spanners for about 8 years. The ratchets failed on the 10mm and 13mm. Took them in with no receipt and got them swapped for brand new. Either they have an excellent guarantee promise or the bloke was about to quit his job!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> Love the bahco stuff. That's my brand of choice. I used to always buy snap-on.


Bahco make excellent tools, best adjustable's available. They make a small adjustable with wide jaw opening, very good adjustment/ positive.

It fits everything on a coffee machine except the 35 mm mushroom.

Considering what members spend on machines and "toys" a decent set of spanner's is a small outlay. They will also last a lifetime.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Bahco make excellent tools, best adjustable's available. They make a small adjustable with wide jaw opening, very good adjustment/ positive.
> 
> It fits everything on a coffee machine except the 35 mm mushroom.
> 
> Considering what members spend on machines and "toys" a decent set of spanner's is a small outlay. They will also last a lifetime.


I got the bahco one in the end, as u say looks to be able to fit everything on there.

Not cheap but looks a precision tool


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

I wouldn't use ANY adjustable spanner even on the rusty nuts on my car let alone my coffee machine !


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

emin-j said:


> I wouldn't use ANY adjustable spanner even on the rusty nuts on my car let alone my coffee machine !


What would u use on your coffee machine?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

emin-j said:


> I wouldn't use ANY adjustable spanner even on the rusty nuts on my car let alone my coffee machine !


To a degree I agree with you, where possible I use a "well / good " fitting O/E spanner or ring. BUT.

With the non precision size of many spanners and equally NON precision sizing of many nuts/ bolts the quality adjustable is a good option.

Even on the burr retaining nut on my Ceado 37S ( 2 flats) the size is different at opposing diameters.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

kennyboy993 said:


> What would u use on your coffee machine?


Six sided good quality sockets or ring spanner's (where access allows) and quality open ended spanners

with protective tape if otherwise.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

kennyboy993 said:


> What would u use on your coffee machine?


Gas axe and a hammer.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

spoxehub said:


> Gas axe and a hammer.












I use a Sapphire 3 cutting torch and a sledge hammer for fine tuning.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I'd just buy a new machine


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

MildredM said:


> I'd just buy a new machine


That is too easy. Where is your sense of adventure.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

El carajillo said:


> That is too easy. Where is your sense of adventure.


Yeah Mildred. Get yourself a wrecking ball and an Arthurian sword to effect repairs... It's what I do #thisgirlcan


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

As a first line of defence in not wanting to damage the nuts on the machines, PVC Leccy tape is great, but a more positive feel and still protect the finish is to use that aluminium tape on the jaws of a good open ended spanner where a ring spanner cannot be used. As to adjustable spanners, there's non better than a Bacho, you pay in this case for quality, any others fail to have parallel jaws when applying pressure and that's when the damage is done.

Jon.


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