# Cherub Spraying Coffee from Bottomless PF



## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Hey all, I recently purchased a Cherub off the forum. Its in great condition and no issues with the machine itself.

It had an aftermarket Bottomless/naked PF with it which ive been using to gauge flow etc. The coffee when using this with either the 15g VST basket or Espresso parts HQ double basket seems to just spray coffee in multiple places, but at the same time I am also getting a nice flow which is centralised through the basket, just with some spraying dotted around the edges of the basket.

So........im quite confident that my process is pretty good, I use fresh beans, weigh in and weigh out, a distribution tool and a good firm tamp creating a nice (near perfect) level in the basket, and when pouring, the flow does centralise from the initial pour and creates a genuinely great shot with crema, however, the side and edge of the cup as well as the machine also get sprayed.

So, my question, is this the aftermarket PF not matching the baskets very well, or should I be looking at something else.

Thank you


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Does the tamper fit the basket ? If not try the NSEW tamp


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Does the tamper fit the basket ? If not try the NSEW tamp


Yep, tamper is more than adequate fit. To the point where ive tried 3 different sizes just to check it wasnt that. Currently using a 58.5mm Torr.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Sounds like a distribution problem although you are using a dis/tool, try agitating the grounds with skewer / needle / cocktail stick to break up any clumps or voids.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Sounds like a distribution problem although you are using a dis/tool, try agitating the grounds with skewer / needle / cocktail stick to break up any clumps or voids.


This is where im getting confused as I have been grinding into a pot, whisking, then putting into PF, knocking, levelling, distribution tool, then tamping. So have been using pretty much every step other than RDT which wont make a difference in this current issue.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Planter said:


> This is where im getting confused as I have been grinding into a pot, whisking, then putting into PF, knocking, levelling, distribution tool, then tamping. So have been using pretty much every step other than RDT which wont make a difference in this current issue.


Try gently patting surface flat with your finger then tamp, don't do anything else especially knocking. See if it improves


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Try the whisking in the P/F. As you tip it into the P/F you disturbing what you have whisked / broken up


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

KTD said:


> Try gently patting surface flat with your finger then tamp, don't do anything else especially knocking. See if it improves


Will be having a go shortly, so will see. Thank you.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Try the whisking in the P/F. As you tip it into the P/F you disturbing what you have whisked / broken up


Will do, cheers for the help


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## gwapenut (Nov 5, 2011)

My own tamper is a terrible fit.

Are there any good value recommend tampers for VSTs?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

gwapenut said:


> My own tamper is a terrible fit.
> 
> Are there any good value recommend tampers for VSTs?


I have a Motta one Flat it's fine 58.4 £24 ebay or Bella Barista


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Planter said:


> This is where im getting confused as I have been grinding into a pot, whisking, then putting into PF, knocking, levelling, distribution tool, then tamping. So have been using pretty much every step other than RDT which wont make a difference in this current issue.


I tried to simulate your work flow this morning as we have very similar machines and the same thing happened to me, lots of it never even made the cup and is all over the machine, I don't have an exact answer why but taking the mixing and knocking out results in the problem almost going completely for me. Doesn't happen with all beans but larger beans seem to be more susceptible to it than more dense smaller ones, could be the grinder quality and difference in grind sizes with smaller ones all moving to one area when mixed rather than being equally distributed


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

KTD said:


> I tried to simulate your work flow this morning as we have very similar machines and the same thing happened to me, lots of it never even made the cup and is all over the machine, I don't have an exact answer why but taking the mixing and knocking out results in the problem almost going completely for me. Doesn't happen with all beans but larger beans seem to be more susceptible to it than more dense smaller ones, could be the grinder quality and difference in grind sizes with smaller ones all moving to one area when mixed rather than being equally distributed


So this morning just wanted to rule out the need for a new group head seal, so changed basket over from the naked pf to the standard fracino dual spout. This eliminated the spray totally. So, this means the seal is ok, however, it means that the Naked PF ive been using that came with the machine, maybe isnt the best fit.

Im not sure what make/brand the naked is, but its not a Fracino. So may be on the look out for a new one to try.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Planter said:


> So this morning just wanted to rule out the need for a new group head seal, so changed basket over from the naked pf to the standard fracino dual spout. This eliminated the spray totally. So, this means the seal is ok, however, it means that the Naked PF ive been using that came with the machine, maybe isnt the best fit.
> 
> Im not sure what make/brand the naked is, but its not a Fracino. So may be on the look out for a new one to try.


Are you getting tiny sprays? I doubt It's the portafilter it will definitely be channeling you just won't notice when using the normal one


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

If the sprays are coming out of the holes and are coffee, rather than drips/spurts over the top of the portafilter then it's definitely a prep issue and nothing to do with your basket, portafilter or anything else.

Practice practice practice.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

I will see later if I can get a video set up with the naked and go from there. Ive just never really had issues with prep or channelling before. However, I am not saying I am perfect. Ill try again when im not so buzzing from caffeine.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Planter said:


> I will see later if I can get a video set up with the naked and go from there. Ive just never really had issues with prep or channelling before. However, I am not saying I am perfect. Ill try again when im not so buzzing from caffeine.


Have you used a naked portafilter before? If not then you may well not have known you had issues. They are very unforgiving... But very fun!


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Missy said:


> Have you used a naked portafilter before? If not then you may well not have known you had issues. They are very unforgiving... But very fun!


Yep, ive used them previously, just never on this machine. However, I will put it down to user error and persevere this time. Thanks for the tips.


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## christos_geo (Feb 9, 2016)

It may just be the beans, are they perhaps way past their roast date? When stale they can act like this. Equally when too fresh due to gas release you can have frothy, messy pours.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

christos_geo said:


> It may just be the beans, are they perhaps way past their roast date? When stale they can act like this. Equally when too fresh due to gas release you can have frothy, messy pours.


Nope, definitely not the beans. They were freshly roasted a couple weeks back, and have used these beans (James' Gourmet Coffee - Chapin) numerous times before so know they are good.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Providing you have a good clean group seal, the edges of the basket are not dinked or damaged and the P/F is not twisted the problem lies elsewhere.

Bean type / age may be a factor but most likely is shot prep.Poor shot prep can cause spraying at extreme angles, not giving the impression it is spraying from inside the basket. Try another basket, perhaps the perforations are miss formed ?


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