# Have a Gaggia Classic - Help!



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi,

My older brother is giving me his Gaggia classic (comes with the original tamp as well) along with his Krups GVX2 grinder. I have no idea how much he uses his gaggia, whether he's descaled it and so forth.

After trawling through the internet, I have discovered that the grinder that he has given me isn't the best for espresso. But according to a few, it should be enough.

*Please note - I have absolutely no experience with making an espresso shot - I am just getting started*. Therefore, I have no other espresso-making equipment, i.e. weighing scales, thermometer/temp probe, etc.

So here's my story on what has gone wrong - imo, which is everything.

I went down to the local supermarket to grab a bag of random cheap beans so that I could 'dial-in' my grinder to a reasonable level before using some of the better beans in my local coffee shop (artisan roast in Glasgow).

That is basically as far as I have progressed.

After spending most of last night making and throwing away shots of 'coffee' (not espresso) - I still have not managed to get a decent shot out of crappy beans.

Shots I have done so far


So what I've tried so far was grinding at the half way point on the grinder and a moderately strong tamp (i don't have a weighing scale). That was too watery and the *double *shot finished in about 11 seconds. That isn't good.

Clicked it down so it was nearly at its finest grind with the lightest of tamps, i.e. 1 finger on the tamp - and I choked the machine, which proves the point that the grinder can grind fine enough - or so i think.

so i tried the half way mark between the first and the 2nd shot = choked it again

slightly coarser grind - coffee came out at about 3 seconds in - but it was still far too watery and had a burnt/bitter taste

same grind but a harder tamp - no difference in appearance or taste


Shot 4 and 5 had a 'coffee' shot that came out far too watery, with not very black looking body and a thin layer of 'crema' if you could call it that.

So i thought it might be problems with my beans - went and bought a small bag from the local coffee shop, came back, and the crema had an interesting looking layer of oil on it - that tasted really sour.

And I don't think the portafilter looks right as well. According to Dr. Google, its missing a black thing between the sprouts and maybe a rubber gasket - pictures to come.

I haven't had time to play around with it much more, so some help would be appreciated!!

Reece


----------



## chewy (Jan 16, 2013)

Hi, have a look into "temperature surfing" i.e. the point when the temperature light goes from being unlit to lit. Basically without the portafilter attached you let small amounts of hot boiler run through the head which will cause the light to go out. Then insert the portafilter and run for 20 seconds ish.

Also have you let the machine heat up enough?


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Ditch the baskets and buy some of these.

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0183-gaggia-double-filter-basket.html

Ditch the plastic tamper and buy one of these (58mm).

http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0823-57-58mm-wooden-tamper.html

Your grinder has burrs so thats a start, take it down as fine as you can.

You need to weigh coffee in and coffee out.

Lots of pointers on here, but the most important is to ditch the baskets and pick up a set of new ones, tamper, scales, timer will be handy also.

Welocme to the forum by the way!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi and welcome

the most important thing you need is ......

fresh beans , the beans from the supermarket will be stale and tasteless , you are " dialling in stale beans " not fresh ones, the grind for fresh beans will not be the same.

But it may also be your krups grinder may not be capable of making a grind fine enough for espresso , I am not familiar with it per se, but grinders of the ilk tend not be suitable for an espresso grind

hopefully someone with experience of one , may be able to say if this is the case of not ...


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi chewy

I have just discovered temp. surfing with the helpful video in one of the forums.

And yes the machine is hot enough. Usually I let it heat up for about 5-10 minutes or so so that everything is nice warm - but I haven't thought about temp surfing, which is a great point - will try to do an espresso tonight when the light just switches on for the *2nd* time.

But somehow I don't see temperature affecting how watery the shot is, that should just affect the flavour of the shot - unless I am wrong which I probably am!

Reece


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Stale beans in a pressured basket , ground with the krups grinder = equals watery tasteless shot

change beans , change basket , possibly change grinder







.


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Read this lot also, helped me understand a few things about the classic.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3858-So-you've-just-bought-your-Gaggia-Classic


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Welcome Reece,from your explanation it sounds as if there could be several reasons for your problems, nothing insurmountable but more information is needed, particularly some pictures.

1 .A good clean would be a good first step (with a cleaner Puly Caffe OR Cafiza) you will need a blind basket for this (one without holes in OR a rubber disc to fit in your existing basket.

2. Does your basket have a small plastic plug in the bottom? (this would be a pressurized basket NOT GOOD you need a standard basket.

3. Can you show photo ofwher you think something is missing.

That should give you some Ideas, put those photos up for more info.


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

Hi,

Thanks all so far for replying.

Elcarajillo, the plastic thing i'm talking about is this 'http://www.wholelattelove.com/ItemImages/6874/8559XLarge.gif' its called the 'Plastic 2 Way Pin for Pressurized Filter Basket'. I don't know when my brother got the machine, but it looks quite well used to me. The bottom of the portafilter (where the basket meets the pf) looks quite well used - colour is quite uneven!

and the pictures of the portafilters and the baskets I have at the moment

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B4Rq-iEwX2U/U07U9z4Qj5I/AAAAAAAAYYo/4k0CuMKmxlw/w1111-h822-no/IMG_20140416_200708.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mZvyD60vexs/U07Wq5DEqWI/AAAAAAAAYZM/1GS2IdOB2SQ/w1096-h822-no/1397675394552.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0TvRIAOlJk0/U07XdYzOCaI/AAAAAAAAYZc/2ZkbqrdVggw/w1111-h822-no/IMG_20140416_200746.jpg

And up till now, the best espresso shot I've made is this one:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4zhmHD8VUrE/U0Oqq7vOaHI/AAAAAAAAXjo/WSyRjn_OGkU/w617-h822-no/2014-04-08

Mrboots

I did end up trying to use some freshly roasted beans from my local coffee shop, and i described my shot as being the same 'coffee' shot (with a slightly different taste) and a layer of oil on top which caused the shot to taste very sour!

And I've ordered some Puly Caffe and some citric acid powder - hoping they'll arrive before the end of the week (being hopeful!).

I'm was hoping that I wouldn't need to invest too much into this, but if I must, I will!

sorry about the links, it doesn't let me upload pictures probably because i'm too new!

Reece


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok what are you dosing gram weight wise, are u using the single or double basket

is your grinder on its finest setting for these extractions ?


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

I tend to use the double basket, because even after i sweep the ground coffee flush to the top of the single basket then tamp, the puck reaches the group head.

For a double shot, I tend to use the same technique as I do for the single basket - I do see a lot of people doing that, just sweeping the top of the basket flush with ground coffee then tamping it.

I don't have a small electronic scale, so I can't tell you what my dosage is.

As for the grinder, I can't go too fine on the grinder or else it will choke the gaggia. I got some espresso-ground coffee powder from the local coffee shop today, made a shot without using my grinder - hopefully eliminating the grinding errors? The shot came out too watery as well - using the technique i use for tamping and dosing. But at least this time there wasn't a burnt taste to it.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The stuff ground for the shop won't be dialled into your machine or dose you are using

extraction are effected by variables , if you change one the extraction time changes and the taste

( not going into temp and taste effect at moment ) . Just shot time and how much coffee comes out

so.....

grind size - coarser dose faster , finer dose slower

How much you dose- even 0.3 g either way can make difference . More coffee slows extractions , less speeds it up

level distribution in basket and tamp

the grind from the coffee shop will be for their machine , set for their dose and their machine not your

plus it will start to stale after 10 minutes from grind meaning it will extract quicker the staler it gets .

You could be choking the classic with your grinder as you are changing dose each time on the same setting .

Plus stick with the double basket

did we get an answer on the pressurised basket or not ,as is kind of irrelevant if you are using a pressurised basket or pf ...


----------



## craftygeek (Feb 19, 2014)

Do the baskets have the same number of holes on the bottom as the top?

As someone that has recently gone through the Gaggia Classic learning curve (i'm still on it now), weighing the beans is important as is being able to tamp consistently.

Using a metal tamper, i've found its easier to be consistent with a relatively light tamp - I can feel the grinds compress into the basket, then stop.

If the weight of the beans going in & the tamp are both consistent, then you can play with the grind setting as the remaining variable to get it all spot on.

It does take time & you will make more crappy shots - but it'll suddenly click.

I also found it helpful to keep notes of weights & grind settings to use as a reference when experimenting.

Get some scales from ebay that can measure down to at least 0.1g resolution - you can get them for about £4.

I use 16g of coffee as a starting point - but have had different coffees that I dose at 14g and some at 17g...it does depend on the beans!


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

MrBoots

All your points there make sense, though I do try to limit the variance in dosage size within the pf by sweeping the ground coffee flat on the basket - though as you said there will be differences in each basket. But imo, i don't think the difference is large enough to make the shot come out from 6 seconds to 30 seconds.

More shots will be pulled. not now, it is a bit late. Tomorrow









Craftygeek

Yes, both baskets have the same number of holes both sides. I have ordered a couple things for the machine today - including a metal tamper and a weighing scale.

I am prepared to make lots of crappy shots, and references are a good idea too!

Do you know roughly how much beans are required for a single and double shot? is it something around the 9g and 18g range?

Reece


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yes Half a gram dose difference cam make a difference in extractions times. Worth bearing in mind .

This is based on weighing doses I have done rather than levelling a basket and doing a lot of them .

Have fun let us know how you get on ...

try say a dose 17g double . Please stick to the double don't go back and forth between it and the single , you are asking for trouble.

you can't half the dose and stick it in a single basket , it won't extract in the same way .


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

cool, will keep that in mind. And i'll let you know how it goes early next week when the stuff arrives, or earlier depending on the post.

and no, i've stuck to the double since i tried a single basket for the first shot i made.

I'll start with a 17g and see how things turn out









Can't wait!

Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated!









Reece


----------



## craftygeek (Feb 19, 2014)

Your baskets are the right type - so you don't have an issue there.

I only make double shots - I haven't even tried making a single. Everything that i've read says that its much harder to nail a single shot than a double.


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

So all my stuff came last night, decided to make a coffee at 17g. The timing of the shot was nearly right, first sprouted ~5s, but overall time is still to fast + watery.

Still tastes burnt though that probably because of the grind.

will play with more settingsss first.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Burnt could also reflect too high an extraction temperature....


----------



## craftygeek (Feb 19, 2014)

If its a dark coffee, it could also be that the dose is too high for your palate. I've found with my Classic that my personal preference for darker roasts is to dose around 14g which allows more chocolate to come through & less of the dark smokey roast flavor.

Try to only change one parameter at a time - you'll get there in the end.


----------



## Egglet (Apr 16, 2014)

Yeah, I'll try changing things bit by bit. Hopefully i'll get there soon!


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Egglet said:


> Yeah, I'll try changing things bit by bit. Hopefully i'll get there soon!


 That's the spirit, stick with it and you will soon be rewarded with a lovely coffee.


----------

