# Water for coffee



## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

The water where I live is quite soft so I would like to start making my own water for coffee. I've read @Xpenno 's latest blog post but I would first like to test my tap water. Can you recommend any tests/tools I can purchase off Amazon which measure the content of the various minerals?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

tds-3 - cheap and basic but will give you total dissolved solids reading - just not what they are


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

bronc said:


> The water where I live is quite soft so I would like to start making my own water for coffee. I've read @Xpenno 's latest blog post but I would first like to test my tap water. Can you recommend any tests/tools I can purchase off Amazon which measure the content of the various minerals?


By a small portable electric water distillation unit, then distill3.5 to 4 litres of water. Smell and examine what remains in the bottom of the distillation unit. If you added it back to the water you distilled would you be happy to drink the rediluted solution, if yes, then your waters fine. In summer of course things get a lot worse and it might surprise you to see some of the stuff left after distilling! The water companies of course make no mention of any of this. Or you can take the blue pill.

Chlorine content won't be obvious from this test, because the distillation process will lose it, but you should smell it if a lot is there before you start the distillation process.

https://www.makewaterpure.co.uk/?gclid=CIfIgtXL1ssCFc0y0wod4AcKSw

P.S TDS gives you the total dissolved solids that affect electrical conductivity, not all suspensions, colloids, chlorine particulate matter, organophosphates etc..


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

I should've mentioned that I'm looking for something cheap. If that's not available I'll go straight to making water though.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

bronc said:


> I should've mentioned that I'm looking for something cheap. If that's not available I'll go straight to making water though.


Can you get any info from your local water authority? They don't always list everything, but you're mainly interested in dry residue (TDS), magnesium, calcium, PH.


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## Mad Wally (Feb 24, 2016)

A TDS tester should do fine. A local aquarium shop will also have test kits or perform the test for you for a small fee.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Good idea. What I was able to find is pH 7.2, calcium http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/conductivity/tds-engels.htm this conductivity translates to 37.9 ppm tds. Does this make any sense?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Can you get any info from your local water authority? They don't always list everything, but you're mainly interested in dry residue (TDS), magnesium, calcium, PH.


oops, forgot bicarbonate too..


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

I found something more detailed:

pH: 7.40

Hardness: 0.83meq/l

Ca: 10.6 mg/l

Mg: 2.15 mg/l

Total organic carbon: 2.16mg/l (not sure if this is relevant to bicarbonate)

Conductivity: 97.3 microS/cm


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## Mad Wally (Feb 24, 2016)

bronc said:


> Good idea. What I was able to find is pH 7.2, calcium http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/conductivity/tds-engels.htm this conductivity translates to 37.9 ppm tds. Does this make any sense?


Straight from the tap? Then No. Conductivity should be in the range from 200 (really soft) to 1000 (really hard) microS/cm


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

bronc said:


> I found something more detailed:
> 
> pH: 7.40
> 
> ...


Looks very soft.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

bronc said:


> I found something more detailed:
> 
> pH: 7.40
> 
> ...


Looks like a good base, I'm jealous.

Hardness is 35-40 (in mg/l as CaCO3), depending on whether you believe the meq/l or Ca/Mg numbers more, and alkalinity probably about the same going by the pH and conductivity. You can check this using, for example, the API GH/KH test kit widely available on ebay. If you can stretch to it, the Salifert alkalinity test kit is more accurate (for the alkalinity only). You could experiment with adding some more hardness, e.g. an extra 75 (mg/l as CaCO3) would require 1.5 meq/l or 0.75 mmol/l of Ca or Mg. Epsom salt has a molar mass of 246.5, so 246*0.75 = 185 mg/l of that would do the trick. This is similar to the water I'm using at the moment, which I find works well, although I get it by adding calcium carbonate and epsom salt to RO water.

Note, if you look back through the threads you might see that some of us briefly tried much larger quantities of Epsom salt, but without great results.

This though was prompted by an error in the "Water for Coffee" book, the authors were actually meaning to recommend water of much the same makeup as I describe here.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm thinking of going this way but the SodaStream is rather expensive at the moment: http://grindscience.com/2015/08/making-water-for-coffee-sodastream-method-best-recipe-so-far/


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

GlennV said:


> This though was prompted by an error in the "Water for Coffee" book, the authors were actually meaning to recommend water of much the same makeup as I describe here.


 @GlennV what are the targets they now recommend?


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

bronc said:


> I'm thinking of going this way but the SodaStream is rather expensive at the moment: http://grindscience.com/2015/08/making-water-for-coffee-sodastream-method-best-recipe-so-far/


But why? The water coming out of your tap looks like it's pretty much the same as what I get when I add CaCO3 using the sodastream (note I use a little less than half the amount of CaCO3 as Xpenno does in that article).


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

GlennV said:


> But why? The water coming out of your tap looks like it's pretty much the same as what I get when I add CaCO3 using the sodastream (note I use a little less than half the amount of CaCO3 as Xpenno does in that article).


The measurements I found are a year or two old and I'm not sure if they can be relied upon. I think it will be more consistent if I start with RO water. Plus Xpenno's method has a recipe which makes things easier







Still, it won't hurt to try using my tap water. Let me see if I got this right - I should add 185mg/L epsom salt per liter of brewing water which takes care of the magnesium, right? What about the calcium?


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

MWJB said:


> @GlennV what are the targets they now recommend?


No idea tbh

The point is that the recommendations in the book, which are presented "as ion" by weight (as are all the calculations in the book) should in fact be interpreted "as CaCO3". This is because the water used for their tests was calibrated using drop tests reading "as CaCO3", not "as ion" as they thought. Hendon has described the mistakes that were made on the water channel of the barista hustle slack. The result of all this that 100/50 water (GH/KH as CaCO3), as recommended in Jim Schulman's insanely long water faq, sits right in the middle of the recommended zone in the book.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

GlennV said:


> No idea tbh
> 
> The point is that the recommendations in the book, which are presented "as ion" by weight (as are all the calculations in the book) should in fact be interpreted "as CaCO3". This is because the water used for their tests was calibrated using drop tests reading "as CaCO3", not "as ion" as they thought. Hendon has described the mistakes that were made on the water channel of the barista hustle slack. The result of all this that 100/50 water (GH/KH as CaCO3), as recommended in Jim Schulman's insanely long water faq, sits right in the middle of the recommended zone in the book.


That's odd, in the corrigendum 10.10.15 they state that "as CaCO3" is not what they want & that values reported as CaCO3 result in values (such as SCAA recommendations, which is close to Jim Schulman's 100/50), is farther from their ideal zone than originally specified?

I'm not saying that I think there is anything wrong with the SCAA/Jim Shulman ranges (far from it), just ever more confused with every subsequent update on the matter.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

MWJB said:


> That's odd, in the corrigendum 10.10.15 they state that "as CaCO3" is not what they want & that values reported as CaCO3 result in values (such as SCAA recommendations, which is close to Jim Schulman's 100/50), is farther from their ideal zone than originally specified?
> 
> I'm not saying that I think there is anything wrong with the SCAA/Jim Shulman ranges (far from it), just ever more confused with every subsequent update on the matter.


The correction I refer to was subsequent to the publication of the corrigendum. I've just looked, though, and it's actually fallen off the Slack (which doesn't appear to keep messages for ever). They have promised a second corrigendum, but it's not an ideal state of affairs in the meantime.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

bronc said:


> The measurements I found are a year or two old and I'm not sure if they can be relied upon. I think it will be more consistent if I start with RO water. Plus Xpenno's method has a recipe which makes things easier
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 @GlennV I'll be going to the chemist to buy some supplies after work. Do I need both Calcium Carbonate and Epsom salt?


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

bronc said:


> @GlennV I'll be going to the chemist to buy some supplies after work. Do I need both Calcium Carbonate and Epsom salt?


You'd need a sodastream to dissolve the calcium carbonate - I'd just try the Epsom salts first. What water do you normally use? I know @Xpenno prefers chloride, so if your chemist has some magnesium chloride you could try that instead - I was suggesting the sulphate as it's easy to find, is non corrosive and I don't think I can tell the difference myself between sulphate and chloride at these low levels (although I've not done careful side by side tests keeping everything else constant).


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

GlennV said:


> You'd need a sodastream to dissolve the calcium carbonate - I'd just try the Epsom salts first. What water do you normally use? I know @Xpenno prefers chloride, so if your chemist has some magnesium chloride you could try that instead - I was suggesting the sulphate as it's easy to find, is non corrosive and I don't think I can tell the difference myself between sulphate and chloride at these low levels (although I've not done careful side by side tests keeping everything else constant).


Thanks! I bought a package of Epsom salts and will make some water this evening. Usually I use tap water for all my needs - drinking, coffee, cooking, etc. Off to read I go..

EDIT: @GlennV I checked the molar mass of Epsom salt and it varies with its different forms(?). The package doesn't say if it's heptahydrate (which I suppose you're refering to) or not - is there a way I can check? I bought it from a pharmacy and it is sold as a laxative.

120.366 g/mol (anhydrous)

138.38 g/mol (monohydrate)

174.41 g/mol (trihydrate)

210.44 g/mol (pentahydrate)

228.46 g/mol (hexahydrate)

246.47 g/mol (heptahydrate)

EDIT2: Nevermind, the info is available on the website of the company which produces the salt - it's heptahydrate


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

So this morning I had an espresso made with tap water and then another with tap water + 185mg/L Epsom salt. There was no blind A/B comparison, but I tried to keep all parameters the same. The Epsom salt espresso definitely has a more pronounced acidity and more clarity in the flavors. There is a lingering cocoa/chocolate sweetness in the aftertaste which I wasn't getting before. Of course, that might be due to me knowing which espresso was made with which water plus it's a relatively new bean to me







I'll try and do some cupping when I receive my order from Foundry to see if I can still taste a difference. Many thanks to all who helped.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

I purchased a cheap TDS meter today. My tap water has a TDS of 45-7 ppm and the water I made with 185mg/L Epsom salt is 125 ppm. I'll be looking for a cheap Soda Stream so I can experiment with different Ca/Mg combinations but so far I'm very happy with my new water. I am yet to do a blind cupping/tasting but I am pretty sure I taste the difference.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

I received my Tetra GH/KH test this morning and measured my water. I doubled the volume of the water sample to get more accurate readings (10ml instead of 5ml so every drop is 0.5° dH). The total hardness is 6° dH (107 ppm CaCO3?) while the carbonate hardness is 0° dH. Yes, 0.. The manual says that the water should turn from blue to yellow but mine was yellow from the first drop. If I recall correctly you need to have some carbonate hardness so what can I do to fix this?

EDIT: Can a mod merge this topic with the main Water for coffee thread?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Glad I clicked on this thread!

Great blog by Xpenno, thanks for including the link.

Soda stream on offer (in red only) at Argos right now.

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/4447322.htm

I make sole (pronounced "solay") salt solution as a health aid so after reading the blog I randomly put a few drops of this solution into my pouring kettle and made a V60 - which I've never nailed. To my surprise the resultant coffee was really nice and the best cup I've ever made! (I use remineralised RO water).

Now I'm going to have to go the whole hog and try this!

Maybe I won't need the Rafino I just bought...


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

@GlennV @Xpenno could you guys throw in some light on this?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

bronc said:


> @GlennV @Xpenno could you guys throw in some light on this?


You can use sodium bicarb to add KH.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

@Xpenno so if I want to get 50ppm carbonate hardness to have a 2:1 ratio of GH:KH and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) has a molar mass of 84 I need to add 0.5*84=42mg/L. Is this correct?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

bronc said:


> @Xpenno so if I want to get 50ppm carbonate hardness to have a 2:1 ratio of GH:KH and sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) has a molar mass of 84 I need to add 0.5*84=42mg/L. Is this correct?


Note quite, Carbonate Hardness is only added by the Bicarbonate Ion. Each gram you add to 1L of RO water adds 1000ppm TDS however only 72.6% of that is the Bicarbonate ion, the rest is Sodium which is a positive ion (this technically adds GH but can be discounted as it doesn't bond very strongly with compounds during coffee extraction). In this scenario you would have 726mg/L KH if you added 1g to 1L.

Are you working with Concentrates or adding directly? If you give me some more info then I can help you more specifically.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

OK, I kind of get it but I get confused with all the different measurement units.

Currently using tap water and adding 165mg/L Epsom salt to it. I've read about your RO SodaStream method but I can't find RO water Bulgaria, only distilled which is marked as "not meant for drinking" (probably because it hasn't been tested by the local authorities as safe or because it lacks any minerals and is not good for you). There are a few spring waters which have been passed through a RO filter and have been re-ionized. Unfortunately they don't have a label with hardness, calcium, magnesium, etc.

This is my tap water before adding epsom salt to it:

pH: 7.40

Hardness: 0.83meq/l

Ca: 10.6 mg/l

Mg: 2.15 mg/l

Conductivity: 97.3 microS/cm

edit: that's from my local authority, my TDS meter gives me a reading of 15ppm before the Epsom salt and 100ppm after


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

bronc said:


> OK, I kind of get it but I get confused with all the different measurement units.
> 
> Currently using tap water and adding 165mg/L Epsom salt to it. I've read about your RO SodaStream method but I can't find RO water Bulgaria, only distilled which is marked as "not meant for drinking" (probably because it hasn't been tested by the local authorities as safe or because it lacks any minerals and is not good for you). There are a few spring waters which have been passed through a RO filter and have been re-ionized. Unfortunately they don't have a label with hardness, calcium, magnesium, etc.
> 
> ...


It's been a while but I think you'd need to add about 70mg of Sodium Bicarb to 1L to get 50mg/L KH.

Remember that this could also raise your pH a little.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Are you measuring hardness as mg/L ion or mg/L as CaCO3? What does your kit measure?


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> Are you measuring hardness as mg/L ion or mg/L as CaCO3? What does your kit measure?


The measurements are in dH. That's all it says on the instructions. If it's any help, it's the same principle as the API GH/KH test.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

bronc said:


> The measurements are in dH. That's all it says on the instructions. If it's any help, it's the same principle as the API GH/KH test.


Ok, give the 70mg/L a go and see what you end up with. Should be about right I think. You might need slightly more (85mg/L) if it's as CaCO3.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> Ok, give the 70mg/L a go and see what you end up with. Should be about right I think. You might need slightly more (85mg/L) if it's as CaCO3.


Thanks! With 70mg/L the carbonate hardness is 3-3.5dH which is between 53ppm and 62ppm. The result is a smoother (both as a taste and mouthfeel) and more balanced cup. The same espresso yesterday was a mix of sourness and bitterness. The past two years I've been figthing with astringent espresso and maybe the lack of bicarbonates has been the reason.

By the way, can I get a bottle of your RO water to see how it tastes? If I can taste the difference from my 'enhanced' tap water then it might be worth it to buy a SodaStream.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

bronc said:


> Thanks! With 70mg/L the carbonate hardness is 3-3.5dH which is between 53ppm and 62ppm. The result is a smoother (both as a taste and mouthfeel) and more balanced cup. The same espresso yesterday was a mix of sourness and bitterness. The past two years I've been figthing with astringent espresso and maybe the lack of bicarbonates has been the reason.
> 
> By the way, can I get a bottle of your RO water to see how it tastes? If I can taste the difference from my 'enhanced' tap water then it might be worth it to buy a SodaStream.


Glad it's working for you









You'd be much better off buying Distilled water locally or from Amazon or something. Otherwise for RO, if you have any nearby, then contact garden centres or aquatics centres as they usually sell RO.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> Glad it's working for you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant your post-SodaStream solution


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

bronc said:


> I meant your post-SodaStream solution


Ah I get you. Sorry, there are a few reasons why, but this is something that I've decided not to do I'm afraid. If you are happy with your results then you're all set


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> Ah I get you. Sorry, there are a few reasons why, but this is something that I've decided not to do I'm afraid. If you are happy with your results then you're all set


Sure, I respect that. Thanks for the help


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

x-posting from Brewed Coffee forum..

I reached out to Maxwell @ Colonna & Smalls , and he came back with the following:

With distilled water I would add the following mineral slats to 5litres.

- Calcium chloride - 1 gram

- Magnesium sulphate - 1.3 grams

- Sodium Bicarbonate( baking soda) - 0.25 grams

I tried to put together a calculator with these amounts, with the yellow ones being the amounts given by him:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pgj_wz4Zq13lYxq_VlVK5q_3VDvAoSF3yu4btyyWgV4/edit?usp=sharing

However I'm getting quite high General Hardness, or is my calculations off?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

the_partisan said:


> x-posting from Brewed Coffee forum..
> 
> I reached out to Maxwell @ Colonna & Smalls , and he came back with the following:
> 
> ...


The calcs look about right and it's at the top end of his suggested specs. I would have thought that there would be potential for scale to form so would only use for brewed only. I would also be looking at the ph which I'd guess would end up around 8 to 8.5 and I prefer slightly acidic water. It's all down to personal preference.

Is never had any luck simply adding minerals to pure water, it never tastes right. I also prefer less Magnesium and as low sulphate levels as possible.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Calcium chloride ftw


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