# Recommendations for a machine or brewing set up



## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie so please bear with me .

We bought a gaggia classic on eBay last week, and long story short, it's pulling shots way too fast and the seller thinks the solenoid valve for damaged in transit.

We're now in a situation where he'll get it fixed or give us a refund.

We're weekend latte drinkers mostly and want to move up a level.

Our previous machine was Delonghi,uk version of the 155 I think.

I found the temperature swings and process of the gaggia more long-winded, and likely it's too much for our needs in the end given rare usage. But I do want to use ground beans.

Should I get a Delonghi dedica for example for ease of use ,plus a grinder? I've seen some burr grinders for £40ish which wouldn't break the bank when we get the £150 refund if that's what we choose.

Or should we brew with a cafetiere or aeropress , and buy a frother for example ? I loved Costa lattes but now have been drinking Small Batch coffee in Brighton for a few years, so want to get closer to that from home.

Any recommendations much appreciated.


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

What is your total budget? Basically depending on budget there are a few ways to go. For £200ish you should be able to get another Delonghi plus a cheap burr grinder. This would produce something close to espresso, but as Delonghi machines operate with pressurised filter baskets to compensate for preground supermarket coffee or coffee ground with a cheap grinder, the taste would not be as good as the alternative below. I would say for £300ish you could persevere with a Classic and get a second hand semi commercial grinder such as a Mazzer Mini or Super Jolly, which would produce much better coffee. As you say, yet another (and much cheaper option) would be to use a cafetiere and milk frother, maybe while you have a think about what to do long term. Although you have said you want to use ground beans, it may also be worth looking at a nespresso compatible pod machine, as some independent roasters (Colonna is one I know of) now make pods to fit these machines and the quality is much much better. I suggest this last option as making decent espresso is a very long winded process, and if you're not so taken with the process but more the end result then this option is maybe worth considering!


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Dumnorix said:


> What is your total budget? Basically depending on budget there are a few ways to go. For £200ish you should be able to get another Delonghi plus a cheap burr grinder. This would produce something close to espresso, but as Delonghi machines operate with pressurised filter baskets to compensate for preground supermarket coffee or coffee ground with a cheap grinder, the taste would not be as good as the alternative below. I would say for £300ish you could persevere with a Classic and get a second hand semi commercial grinder such as a Mazzer Mini or Super Jolly, which would produce much better coffee. As you say, yet another (and much cheaper option) would be to use a cafetiere and milk frother, maybe while you have a think about what to do long term. Although you have said you want to use ground beans, it may also be worth looking at a nespresso compatible pod machine, as some independent roasters (Colonna is one I know of) now make pods to fit these machines and the quality is much much better. I suggest this last option as making decent espresso is a very long winded process, and if you're not so taken with the process but more the end result then this option is maybe worth considering!


Thank you for your reply ,I was starting to think no one could see my thread.

I'm happy to spend this £150,either by keeping the Classic once repaired and figuring out all the maintenance and quirks we'd need to learn, or buying a new machine that was easier to operate. I've enjoyed using it and learning to some extent so far. Shame we haven't had a proper expresso from it so far though as it keeps filling the shot within around 9 seconds, it's crazy. He thinks it got damaged in transit.

I just don't know what to do, I do enjoy the process and have taught myself alot these last few weeks I feel, hence taking the leap last week on eBay. But it's dented my confidence I think, worrying it might be a step too far...

He could repair it, then I'd just need to learn about maintenance and routines, could sell my old Delonghi and put that towards a grinder. The other thing is, as we'd prob only have 2 or 3 coffees each on a weekend, whether the beans would go off? I'll check prices for the mazzer mini and super Jolie thank you .

Does anyone here who has a Classic only have a few coffees a week is what I'm wondering. ..


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

eagerlearner said:


> We bought a gaggia classic on eBay last week, and long story short, it's pulling shots way too fast and the seller thinks the solenoid valve for damaged in transit.


I don't think that solenoid valve is connected with the speed of the shots you pull, more likely your coffee is ground too coarse.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

L&R said:


> I don't think that solenoid valve is connected with the speed of the shots you pull, more likely your coffee is ground too coarse.


Thank you ,the seller did a video call with me to see what could be wrong, firstly the machine drips lots of water whilst warming up,then the shots are almost always fast. I have the aeropress grinder on 9 which is the lowest it'll go to. He said he'd been using 10 for fresh roasted beans with no issues. Suspects damage in transport.

I just don't know now whether it's a good set up given we have so little coffee each week and how the temperature varies etc. I'm willing to do it though as everyone seems to say this is a great machine to upgrade to.

Or do I budget the £150 to go to a sage grinder pro for now, would that be best?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

I should add that it's a gaggia classic 2009,recently serviced and he sent me descaler with it etc, still it's 9 years old.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

eagerlearner said:


> firstly the machine drips lots of water whilst warming up


 Here is strongly solenoid involved, but it can be removed and thoroughly cleaned, this valve easily gets blocked by limescale especially when you descale the machine once a year instead doing this regularly. 2009 Classics are good and probably your machine is Italy made. If I were you, I would get a partial refund, open the machine and give it a good cleaning. Most probably you will need a set of new gaskets only.

PS I don't believe the solenoid valve can be damaged in transit though.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

L&R said:


> Here is strongly solenoid involved, but it can be removed and thoroughly cleaned, this valve easily gets blocked by limescale especially when you descale the machine once a year instead doing this regularly. 2009 Classics are good and probably your machine is Italy made. If I were you, I would get a partial refund, open the machine and give it a good cleaning. Most probably you will need a set of new gaskets only.
> 
> PS I don't believe the solenoid valve can be damaged in transit though.


thank you ,it was serviced recently and everything was OK, this is why he thinks something happened. I don't think he's lying. I know nothing about the inner workings of the machine nor does my husband, so we'd probably need to take it somewhere local, adding to the expense. The seller descaled it every month and even sent me pulycaf for the future.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Persevere with the classic I think, it really is a great little machine. I probably only make a couple of coffees a day and paired with the sage grinder pro i'm making some really great tasting stuff (in my opinion anyway!)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Where do the drips come from ? They would need studying carefully to be sure of where they are coming from. A machine might develop an internal leak during transit. A solenoid is less likely. Too fast a flow could be down to the setting of an internal valve that limits the brew pressure or a fault in that area. The usual cause though is grinds that are too coarse.

A grinder that is suitable for the filter baskets that probably came with the machine is a bit of a problem. A cheap burr grinder is unlikely to be satisfactory. It should be better with pressurised baskets and those are available for Gaggia machines but must come with a small plastic part that fits into the portafilter or that has to be bought separately. By mentioning Sage you have very probably mentioned the cheapest option that will at least do a reasonable job with the usual unpressurised baskets. Cheap hand grinders are a mixed bunch - believe it or not a "good" one may cost as much as a Sage grinder or not that far short of it.

There are a lot of happy Classic owners about. I can't comment on the made in Italy aspect but would wonder about any upgrades that have happened since.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

ajohn said:


> Where do the drips come from ? They would need studying carefully to be sure of where they are coming from. A machine might develop an internal leak during transit. A solenoid is less likely. Too fast a flow could be down to the setting of an internal valve that limits the brew pressure or a fault in that area. The usual cause though is grinds that are too coarse.
> 
> A grinder that is suitable for the filter baskets that probably came with the machine is a bit of a problem. A cheap burr grinder is unlikely to be satisfactory. It should be better with pressurised baskets and those are available for Gaggia machines but must come with a small plastic part that fits into the portafilter or that has to be bought separately. By mentioning Sage you have very probably mentioned the cheapest option that will at least do a reasonable job with the usual unpressurised baskets. Cheap hand grinders are a mixed bunch - believe it or not a "good" one may cost as much as a Sage grinder or not that far short of it.
> 
> ...


Thank you both, I can't see a way to simply add a response to the thread, only reply with quote.

We talked about it last night, ultimately we're too nervous to keep this machine I think, given how little we'll use it and how much extra work and servicing it might need. I think I'll bring my Delonghi back out from the cupboard, give it a good descale and maybe upgrade the steaming wand t, which I believe is the Rancillo Silvia one? Then we'd look at investing in a good grinder. When the Delonghi eventually goes, I'll relook at machines.

I know what you mean re the grind being too coarse, it was the first thing I asked the seller on the call, as the grinder was set to 10, and won't go lower than 9, he said he didnt know this as always used 10 with fresh beans with great results. Might be a fib but can't see why.

The classic drips lots of water when warming up, this comes from around the head, not just from the head area. If not the solenoid then something happened in transit .


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Also though I like the look of the sage pro, is the hdo 866 iberital mc2 grinder a better option long term? Slightly cheaper, seems resilient? This is based on us using our Delonghi for now, I've found out it is an EC152.CD.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

You'll get good coffee from a fully working Gaggia Classic. Not the new model - you can tell the older models by the thin chrome pipe coming down to the drip tray on the left, plus the middle black switch is wider. On the new model they're the same width.

£150 should get you a Mazzer Super Jolly grinder. Always plenty about on eBay or here. You won't need to upgrade that for a while unless you get geeky and want a Mazzer Major. That and a Classic are a very safe combination in terms of quality in the cup. There's a learning curve, but loads of tutorials on YT since the models are so common. Parts galore as well.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

les24preludes said:


> You'll get good coffee from a fully working Gaggia Classic. Not the new model - you can tell the older models by the thin chrome pipe coming down to the drip tray on the left, plus the middle black switch is wider. On the new model they're the same width.
> 
> £150 should get you a Mazzer Super Jolly grinder. Always plenty about on eBay or here. You won't need to upgrade that for a while unless you get geeky and want a Mazzer Major. That and a Classic are a very safe combination in terms of quality in the cup. There's a learning curve, but loads of tutorials on YT since the models are so common. Parts galore as well.


Hi thank you ,not sure if you saw my original thread but I currently have a classic gaggia as you describe.

Thing is, it's not working and looking quite involved as we need to ship it back to eBay seller who's going to then ship somewhere to see what's wrong etc. I'm thinking I jumped the gun anyway, for 2 or 3 coffees a week each and it'll sit idle on weekdays. ..If we return it point blank we'll get a refund and can then buy a proper grinder and start to enjoy ground coffee, miles better than the Lidl ground we've been having. I bought some beans from Hasbean which we enjoyed with the grinder the eBay seller had included, and it was amazing. We'll lose the grinder when returning the whole shebang tomorrow... I'm more upset about that at the moment ?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Is £79 a good price for second hand Iberital mc2 grinder?

I think new ones are 130ish, seems smaller than the Mazzer Super Jolie and less expensive ? Given that we only have a couple of coffees we don't want something huge ideally...


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well once it's gone back, have you looked in the for sale area. Are you in the UK?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Jony said:


> Well once it's gone back, have you looked in the for sale area. Are you in the UK?


hi I haven't yet, think I can when I have made a few more posts. I was looking on eBay, things like Delonghi kg89 etc too, very affordable and likely we'd be able to do decent fresh ground with it for our pressurised portafilter in the existing Delonghi.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

You only need 5 posts. Are you in the UK?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Jony said:


> You only need 5 posts. Are you in the UK?


Hi sorry yes I am, I couldn't see it earlier when I looked, will check again, I'm sure it's better to look here than eBay, feel a bit nervy from the eBay experience with the gaggia. Haven't had a reply back from him as of yet, hopeful he will soon


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Yes the for sale here is better than ebay by far. Because it works.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

People do use the Iberital you mentioned. It allows very fine adjustment but I have no idea how well it grinds. I think there is a review on the HappyDonkey site and a google search will probably bring up views on several coffee forums.

When looking at new items Ebay sometimes isn't the best place. It's not unusual to find amazon and various retailers that are cheaper and Ebay items that are actually over priced.

If you are having problems with your Ebay seller don't take too long to start a dispute. The leaks are their problem not yours and they will be responsible for the return costs but that can't be enforced if it was won on an auction. There aren't many people on ebay that just string things along until disputes can't be started but believe me there have been some. Same with paypal. Your problem with the machine could be easy to fix but that is besides the point.

John

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## tommyp215 (Apr 2, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> Thank you ,the seller did a video call with me to see what could be wrong, firstly the machine drips lots of water whilst warming up,then the shots are almost always fast. I have the aeropress grinder on 9 which is the lowest it'll go to. He said he'd been using 10 for fresh roasted beans with no issues. Suspects damage in transport.
> 
> I just don't know now whether it's a good set up given we have so little coffee each week and how the temperature varies etc. I'm willing to do it though as everyone seems to say this is a great machine to upgrade to.
> 
> Or do I budget the £150 to go to a sage grinder pro for now, would that be best?


Is the outer body damaged in anyway? I cant see how the internals could be if not. In terms shots pulling too fast, as you are grinding at finest setting on your grinder, your only option is to dose more (add more coffee) per shot. Are you weighing how much coffee you put it? Trying putting as much as you can in and see what happens. You could also try tamping harder. Do you have a metal tamper or plastic one that came with it?

If you have decided against keeping it, there are some fully serviced working ones for only £15 or so more on here in the for sale section and they will work. I used to have delonghi and switched to a classic and it really is a whole different world of coffee I would persist whether with this machine or another.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Jony said:


> Yes the for sale here is better than ebay by far. Because it works.


Thanks, are you referring to a grinder, if so which one and I'll take a look?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks Tommy, no the casing isn't damaged at all. It leaks water when warming up, both from the head and around it too, certainly enough to be annoying. I was on Skype with the seller and he said he uses grind setting 10 with great results, it's never gushed out so fast. I tried adding more coffee, less coffee, tamping hard etc and I never ever got longer than 11 seconds or so. The seller said something def is not right, as he saw everything I did on screen and said that it wasn't me.

I know I'll be a heathen for saying this, but I just don't know that the difference when using fresh beans between the final product in my Delonghi, Vs the Classic would be so great in my 2 coffees a week that it'd warrant the extra servicing, taking ages to warm up , temperature fluctuations etc etc. Does that make any sense. ..I was so excited about it and researched to the enth degree, but hubby loves the fresh beans in the Delonghi now, and I'm inclined to agree. We definitely need fresh beans from now on!

I'm going to raise a case on eBay tomorrow just to follow process I think. I did a buy it now, rather than auction, paid immediately etc and he's in full agreement when we videoed Saturday eve that he'll either fix or refund and he'd said he'd talk to his servicing company today.

Any final thoughts?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

PS it was a metal tamper he'd supplied with it, as well as the aerolatte burr grinder. I tried over filling, over tamping etc, tamping losely, still pretty much gushed every time. Sometimes it'd at least have crema, other times just flat brown coffee. I was allowing it lots of time to warm up etc. Losing the will to live with it as watched so many videos on what it should look like...


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Just found this on the Gaggia wiki area for faults and fixes, which seems to tie in with what the seller said re solenoid :

*Drippy group-head*

This is model specific. The fix is different depending on whether the machine has a solenoid valve. How do I know if I have a slolenoid valve?

If you have a valve then this is causing the leak. It's either because the nucleous seals have perished or that the valve is being prevented from closing fully due to a build up of scale. (the latter usually being the case). Firsty run a descale. If this solves the problem your done! If not then a new valve is in order. Valves cost between £15-£30 GBP. A "How to replace the solenoid valve" article will be crated soon!

I guess if the solenoid is faulty, maybe this affects how fast the coffee has been coming out?


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## tommyp215 (Apr 2, 2016)

Sounds like you have tried everything. Sounds like it is the solenoid then. I'd return it I'm not convinced by his damaged in transit story.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I have read through your thread and just wanted to add that i feel it would be a shame if you stuck with the Delonghi.

I started on a delonghi and £40 burr grinder before upgrading to a classic; the difference in the quality of the coffee produced is huge. I have since used a friend's delonghi and it highlighted how much better the Classic is.

The eBay machine will be fixable cheaply and people on here know how and will help you - the forum is a wealth of information always eager to help. Pretty much any problem on the Classic is fixable with basic tools and a budget of no more than £50.

If you only make 2-3 coffees a week - I say you deserve to enjoy them as much as possible!

You mentioned the wide temperature swing on the Classic - there is also the same problem on the delonghi - it's just nobody highlights it as few users would notice or care!

If you return that Classic I implore you to buy a good used one off this forum, and pick up a grinder also. You can then start to properly experience the amazing quality of coffees that it is possible to enjoy at home.

Once you have a Classic (or a Sage Duo Temp Pro maybe??) you need £100-£150 on a high quality used grinder - that will make the flavours come alive in the coffee. It is not possible to make anything approaching espresso with anything less.

With a budget of £250-£300 and a good few hours spare to delve into this forum, you will be making coffee that is unrecognisable from where you are now.

We all hope you decide to involved!


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> thank you ,it was serviced recently and everything was OK, this is why he thinks something happened. I don't think he's lying. I know nothing about the inner workings of the machine nor does my husband, so we'd probably need to take it somewhere local, adding to the expense. The seller descaled it every month and even sent me pulycaf for the future.


L&R is right. Little (if anything) could have happened to the solenoid during transit. Whilst I am not questioning the fact the the previous owner descaled the machine as he told you I do not believe that he went to such a length to open and descale the solenoids. They are quite tricky parts but TLC usually does the miracle.

Having said that it seems that your ground cafe might be on the coarse side and this is why the fast pass through the filter. The speed limiting step is in the filter, i.e. size of ground and tampering effort.

Good luck!


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

rob177palmer said:


> I have read through your thread and just wanted to add that i feel it would be a shame if you stuck with the Delonghi.
> 
> I started on a delonghi and £40 burr grinder before upgrading to a classic; the difference in the quality of the coffee produced is huge. I have since used a friend's delonghi and it highlighted how much better the Classic is.
> 
> ...


Thank you Rob and Tommy for your answers and kind help.

Thinking about it now, we'd noticed the far right red light flickered on occasion, I wonder if that's anything to do with it. Certainly doesn't inspire confidence when you connect it with everything else like fast flow and dripping.

Yes I think once I have returned this and had a week or so hopefully I'll feel like I can delve back in to research. I wanted a machine that would firstly improve the taste then last a long time ,hence the used Classic came up again and again as a great option. I got an excellent package on the eBay used deal with a recent service having been done, plus lots of items included like a lovely tamper, burr grinder, jugs, cups, descaler, the knock box etc, so at least I have been exposed to them. For £150 Inc delivery I really thought I'd gotten such a good deal.

I definitely need to get a decent grinder, so I think for now my focus will be there then save up a few months to get a better machine. Who knows, maybe sooner if the For Sale section tempts me 

Must chase the seller again today and box everything back up.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thank you John also, and yes I'm sure a finer grind would help anyway, don't know if I believe his story that he's 'never tried' anything less than the 10 setting on it and so 'didn't know ' it was stuck at 9. Surely as a coffee geek you would fiddle and tinker to experiment. Trying a finer grind was the very first thing I wanted to do when I saw the coffee coming out so fast.

Surely if he'd had a recent service before selling then the dripping issue would have been brought up?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

John Yossarian said:


> L&R is right. Little (if anything) could have happened to the solenoid during transit. Whilst I am not questioning the fact the the previous owner descaled the machine as he told you I do not believe that he went to such a length to open and descale the solenoids. They are quite tricky parts but TLC usually does the miracle.
> 
> Having said that it seems that your ground cafe might be on the coarse side and this is why the fast pass through the filter. The speed limiting step is in the filter, i.e. size of ground and tampering effort.
> 
> Good luck!


The descale itself could have dislodged a tiny bit of scale that's got to the solenoid causing it to not close fully.

Personally I'm wondering why the grinder doesn't go below number 9. It seems mighty odd a manufacturer wouldn't start at 1.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Ashcroc is right - his descale has caused this - it is very common and a relatively simple process to fix. If he descaled before selling that is why he wasn't aware of the problem and assumed damage in transit.

The flickering light is completely normal.

I linked you to a thread for a machine being sold by one of the regular refurbishers. I bought one from him as a gift for a friend and I wanted it to be as close to new as possible - you probably need something like that from him to put your mind at rest that everything is present and correct.

@joey24dirt has a lovely mazer Jolly grinder for sale - every upgrade you would want and a great price - yes it is slightly orange but is a superb price.

First step is buy a grinder like Joey's and an Unpressurised filter basket for your Delonghi - one will cost you £5 and will start to allow you to make better coffee on the delonghi if you have a decent tamper for it.

Maybe once you have maximised the delonghi then maybe you can better appreciate what I Classic would bring to the table?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> The descale itself could have dislodged a tiny bit of scale that's got to the solenoid causing it to not close fully.
> 
> Personally I'm wondering why the grinder doesn't go below number 9. It seems mighty odd a manufacturer wouldn't start at 1.


This makes sense re descale yes, and re grinder yes it starts at 1, but it's jammed at 9 it seems, neither hubby or I could get it lower than 9. I'm confident the seller knew his grinder didn't go back to 1. It effectively works from 9 upwards only.


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> The descale itself could have dislodged a tiny bit of scale that's got to the solenoid causing it to not close fully.
> 
> Personally I'm wondering why the grinder doesn't go below number 9. It seems mighty odd a manufacturer wouldn't start at 1.


I do remember once I had to disassemble all solenoids and clean/descale them individually.

As it was mentioned sometimes a bit of silicon grease (food grade) could help after descale.

It is difficult, next to impossible to judge from a distance but there are a few things that could be done and set the machine/grinder to produce the coffee the OP deserves.

Cheers


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

thank you Ashcroc and Rob, this sounds right and I'll mention to the seller.

I can't see the link you mentioned Rob?

I'll have a look at the Mazzer grinder, where would I get an unpressurised Delonghi basket please? I'd need to get a tamper to go with .

Absolutely, we'd learn as we go I think, unless I'm persuaded otherwise in the interim


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> This makes sense re descale yes, and re grinder yes it starts at 1, but it's jammed at 9 it seems, neither hubby or I could get it lower than 9. I'm confident the seller knew his grinder didn't go back to 1. It effectively works from 9 upwards only.


Are you running the grinder while adjusting finer?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

thanks Rob looks like the grinder is sold now ,I see what you mean re the orange


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi Ashcroc yes I wanted to ensure it didn't get beans stuck whilst off, so I had it grinding whilst trying to adjust.

It simply won't go lower than 9, very odd. Anyway it'll go back in the box with the rest today or tomorrow.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

It's a lovely shade of orange haha. And yes unfortunately it's now sold.

My duo temp pro is still for sale if interested? Personally, having owned both a classic and dtp side by side, I rate the dtp as a better, more stable machine.

I would say that though


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Ha joey yes slightly biased eh 

I'll certainly take a look, very nervous about buying anything right now I'll admit...

Plus, budget.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

@joey24dirt looks good, it does seem wide compared to the Delonghi or Classic is the only thing, not a massive issue just a consideration .If you want to pm me we could chat there. I need to figure out where messages are etc!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> @joey24dirt looks good, it does seem wide compared to the Delonghi or Classic is the only thing, not a massive issue just a consideration .If you want to pm me we could chat there. I need to figure out where messages are etc!


It's slightly wider than a delonghi. I'll throw in the naked pf I have for sale also if you decide to take it. I'll link the for sale post and pick it up from there if that's ok? No pressure though lol


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks @joey24dirt - I have pm'd you, finally figured it out...


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Thanks @joey24dirt - I have pm'd you, finally figured it out...


I've replied in the other thread. We can discuss there.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Ha joey yes slightly biased eh
> 
> I'll certainly take a look, very nervous about buying anything right now I'll admit...
> 
> Plus, budget.


I think you mentioned heat up time in respect to the Classic - I did wonder about mentioning the DTP but new is over your budget.. Heat up time on the DTP is about 30 sec or so. Personally I also take steps to get the portafilter really hot a well but many don't.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks @ajohn yes it was taking ages, might have been just this machine though.

Mark here from the thread, a Gaggia specialist, very kindly rang me to talk through the issues, seems mainly a seal issue possibly, plus scaling plus faulty light. I have raised the case with ebay, hoping for news today.

Assuming all goes through on the DTP, and ebay refund, hopefully things will get better now ;-) then need to find some cash for a grinder / research etc.

@joey24dirt your sig still shows orange Mazzer ;-)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

If you have some sort of burr grinder rather than a blade grinder you can probably get decent drinks via the pressurised baskets that come with the machine. Fresh roasted beans help a *lot* with that as well. That gives you more time to look at grinders. The Mazzer Jolly etc approach as some people use them may not appeal to all, weighing beans in and modifying them as well even when a doser is retained. Unfortunately most commercial grinders have similar problems. They also often come with rather large hoppers, people sometimes replace these with tubes. It's a pity there isn't a pinned and just to the point thread on grinder modifications but as far as I know there isn't. The information is scattered about. My Mazzer is currently fitted with a rubber lens hood to puff retained grinds out and I weigh the beans in. Later it will get a tube with a weight over the beans and I will try a timed grind.

If the manual that comes with the DTP is missing it can be downloaded from Sage's site. Much to some people disgust I often mention use of the razor tool for complete beginners or new users of Sage machines. It will get the dose in the basket to a sensible level. Past that people use actual weight of grounds in and weight of the fluid that comes out.

John

-


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks John - I need to look at grinders afterwards yes, saw a good comment on Mahlkonig 30 I think? No idea what the price is. I do not need anything super fancy, as my taste buds for now will not have a clue of the difference, having come from a delonghi with Lidl preground coffee.

The DTP will have pressurised and unpressurised, which allows me to use up what we have from Lidl, and research grinders. I see lots of burr grinders on Amazon for £40-£60 which is tempting...


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

I cannot afford Mahlkonig, ouch, need to look elsewhere ;-)


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> saw a good comment on Mahlkonig 30 I think? No idea what the price is.


Can I suggest you are sat down when you start researching that particular grinder?!



eagerlearner said:


> I see lots of burr grinders on Amazon for £40-£60 which is tempting...[/color]


You won't find anyone recommending you down that route for a very good reason - that would be a waste of your money.

Someone above has recommended a Sage smart grinder, also a minion, a high quality hand grinder, or a Mazzer. Secondhand if you can. Budget for £150 or £100 for a good quality hand grinder. These are all excellent options but spending insufficient money on a poor entry level grinder will get you nowhere.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks Rob - yeah I nearly fell over just now in fact, for a second hand one [gasp]. Need a coffee to recover ha.

I like the idea of the Sage one, might be OTT though and likely will look into hand grinders as we have so few coffees really. What would a quality hand grinder brand be please?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I still think you should get a Mazzer.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

^^ he is right - best bang per buck is Mazzer. Sage would be great and is smaller and more kitchen friendly.

I recently did a lot of research into and bought a hand grinder. The only answer for sensible money is Made By Knock Aergrind or Feld2. Less are a compromise and any better costs twice as much.

There quite honestly is no such thing as overkill. If you buy something that is popular and well regarded on here it will be worth the money or, if you don't like it for some reason, you can easily sell for negligible loss.

Everyone above is giving consistent advice on the same sort of machines if you read back - stick to buying one of those.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

rob177palmer said:


> ^^ he is right - best bang per buck is Mazzer.


I've had the Mazzer Mini, Super Jolly and now Major. Burr size goes up 58mm, 64mm, 83mm. You get a noticeable and worthwhile increase in taste with the bigger burrs as you go up. The Super Jolly is a good middle ground. The burr sets are cheap - I got new burrs for the Super Jolly from eBay at £10, and new burrs matter on used machines. Plus plenty of tutorials on converting to on demand. You can get a Super Jolly for £150. It's a professional grinder and coffee shop quality. I wouldn't be tempted by anything less, having tried these. Bigger burrs matter!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LOL You will probably be surprised by the price of a decent hand grinder.

Grinders are a bit sad really due to cost for what might be called pro level. It's possible to spend thousands and some do. One of the big problems for some one looking into them on forums is comments like 80 odd mm burr versions are much better. Maybe they are but even a well used one will be out of many peoples budget. The other aspect with commercial grinders is modifications for home use and accurate dosing. They are generally aimed at being fitted with a doser and most if not all of the cheaper ones will have one of these on. To see the difference google doserless and or on demand grinders. Many of those were really intended to be used with a doser on so retain more grinds than they need to due to shape and size of the casting that makes up the body also leaving space for gears and or a motor of sufficient size.

People add a clean sweep mod to dosers. That may help you find what that involves. Weighing in an adding a puffer finishes up looking like this.









It's a rubber camera lens hood. Normally people would make up a lid ot keep the beans and bits in when a dose of beans are being ground. I use a weight instead as it keeps the lot in place where they should be. So I grind until beans have gone. Remove weight and brush a few bits in trapped under the weight. Grind some more and place my hand over the lens hood and press down smartly while it's running which creates a puff of air which blows more bits into the burrs and also more or less clears them out. Then I lift the timer off and brush the grounds retained in the outlet out. Recently I pop a metal lens hood onto the portafilter so that all of the grinds finish up in the portafilter. It's surprising how much misses without it. I'm working this way mostly out of curiosity as a far few people use this method. Comment that I would make is that without the weight the beans bounce around too much spoiling the grind. The weight lessens that aspect. I can get doses that come out at more or less what went in, worst error is usually 0.2g, often less.

I like grinder timers so will be fitting a tube hopper. Just a length of tube to hold beans. A weight on top of them to simulate the larger hopper that is usually fitted. Timers are fun to set up for a specific dose but it can be done. The output does need checking now and again though. I've only really done that so far with a Sage grinder - several kg of beans. Using my rather oily beans and 3 to 5 shots a day it might need adjusting several time in the first week of using them after using another bean. Then maybe once a week. Sage grinders also need to grind some beans before the output can settle down from fully and completely clean - as new in other words. I'd say about 100g or so. The Mazzer mini fitted with a tube hopper should settle down more quickly.

So really as far as any grinder purchaser is concerned they do need to consider what they are prepared to do to the grinder they intend to purchase.

I have a grinder that in some ways is similar to the Iberital you mentioned but uses flat burrs. Different make but I think the burrs are driven the same way. On that basis due to grinds trapped in the outlet I'd say you would be better off with the Sage grinder especially for infrequent use. The grinds in those fall over a cliff when they are ground so grinds trapped in that fashion are negligible. They also take steps to get round the use of plastic - Iberital, pass. The Sage does have significant permanent retention but once that is established it's not a problem even when beans are changed - carry over from it will be gone by the time a few shots have been ground. At some point they do need a thorough clean but personally I would suggest only if they start acting up. That needs a spanner to remove the centre burr and a new felt washer.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

This is very helpful thanks everyone. Getting slightly nervous now my eBay seller hasn't said a peep, was meant to contact me yesterday after talking to his servicing chap. I messaged him yesterday and this morning, no news by lunch so started the case... Maybe he's at work or something but I need to get the old one picked up and refunded.

I will look around for a Sage or Mazzer, manual might be far too attractive for a 6year old to play with  ideally nothing too huge on the counter. Les24, didn't know that size matters on these burrs, I'll keep that in mind


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Sorry John just saw your post, oh wow I'll pretend some of that went in and stayed :exit:you're right on as to what to say on the Sage, likely it'd do the trick just fine. Plus my new machine is Sage, so my brain would like that ha.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

So seller has accepted my return and sent me a postage label etc.

I was reading over in the bean section of the forum (which then links to https://www.crafthousecoffee.co.uk/b...resting-coffee) you need to let fresh roasted beans rest, had no idea. So in testing my fresh beans 2 days after roasting, could this have caused the fast flow on the Gaggia or affected it? Leaking notwithstanding etc.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> So seller has accepted my return and sent me a postage label etc.
> 
> I was reading over in the bean section of the forum (which then links to https://www.crafthousecoffee.co.uk/b...resting-coffee) you need to let fresh roasted beans rest, had no idea. So in testing my fresh beans 2 days after roasting, could this have caused the fast flow on the Gaggia or affected it? Leaking notwithstanding etc.


You do definitely find differences shot to shot when too fresh for espresso - they tend to be overly difficult to dial in - which means one shot might work perfectly but the next with no change in grind, dose, distribution would run substantially quicker or slower. I would guess it is more likely to be the old grinder couldn't get fine enough to resist the flow properly


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

On an aside I remember how many of my own myths were busted in the early days of pouring through threads to learn as must as possible about how to master the machines - keep going - you'll learn an incredible amount


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thank you Rob, since being on this forum I already feel like I'm learning, ie I'd been drinking 'dead' coffee and have now taken the blue pill 

I've bought a documovie called Black Gold ,should be interesting to watch.

Separately, if the Gaggia was faulty, do I have to pay for the return shipping and arrange it, or does the seller?


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I would ask google on that one. I always understood assumptions were in favour of the buyer and costs / direct losses covered by seller


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Grinders are a bit sad really due to cost for what might be called pro level. It's possible to spend thousands and some do. One of the big problems for some one looking into them on forums is comments like 80 odd mm burr versions are much better. Maybe they are but even a well used one will be out of many peoples budget.
> 
> -


Well, I didn't say 83mm burrs were "much better". What I said, and what I found was a "noticeable" improvement in quality. Say going from 8/10 on a Super Jolly to 9/10 on a Major. That's noticeable in the cup.

What you say about off-the-shelf grinders is true of course - the on-demand doserless ones are hundreds more. But Mazzer Majors have gone on eBay during the last month or so for around £160, £175, £132, £200. I bought mine for £200 and very happy since it had sharp titanium burrs. Mazzers have been very good value on eBay recently. I'm happy to DIY a quick conversion to doserless, but many buyers aren't so your comments about buying the doserless versions apply. They're usually not cheap, as you say. But the dosers are, if you can cope with that. The replacement burrs are cheap, which makes them economical to maintain.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

If it's faulty etc the seller pays return costs. There is also some sort of cover under paypal for return costs. I also believe that some sellers get return cost off ebay at a very reduce price. The return has to be tracked but 2nd class signed for etc will do.

I ordered some plastic tube for my grinder mods that arrived broken last week. I started a return on ebay today but the seller had refunded me £3.50 from my initial purchase to cover postage costs so ebay reckons I will get refund reduced by that amount when the tube goes back. Not sure what will happen. It will be ok if the seller is honest but there is no way of being sure about that. Most are. Maybe I should have used not as described because in the past that has automatically started a dispute. However it's also possible settle things via paypal. The thing to use there is not as described. When things are sold used they are expected to work. Spare and repair would be the description to use when selling a machine with problems or in some ways if the seller has no idea if it does work.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

thanks everyone, I've started it on eBay as figure that's the starting point. Might send him a message re arranging pick up. I had already messaged him on this though, figure for £12-14 it'd be clear he should arrange but heyho. I just want it gone now.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Packaged up and ready to go, I was being daft and didn't notice until looking at the postage label that it's Royal Mail 24, ie pre-paid.

Shame I am carless otherwise would return it today, will have to be Saturday now which means no refund until at least mid week next week.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Right I am getting my shiny new machine in the next couple of days, so need to start planning the next purchase when the refund comes in...sounds like a used SGP is the one, small size, well regarded and crucially within budget...


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Right I am getting my shiny new machine in the next couple of days, so need to start planning the next purchase when the refund comes in...sounds like a used SGP is the one, small size, well regarded and crucially within budget...


No a Mazzer really.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Mmm it's a stretch price wise in comparison. I've seen one though so might see if it can be done.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Stretch is better than have to upgrade in 6 months. This will be good for at least 12 months


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> Mmm it's a stretch price wise in comparison. I've seen one though so might see if it can be done.


They can come up quite cheap on ebay & gumtree etc sometimes especially if you're willing to travel to collect.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks Ashcroc, I think a Mazzer Super could be achieved if I can find a deal. I've been offered a couple of other brands but the mazzer keeps coming up


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

@coffeechap has just been referred to as a Guru on my pm, so I'll be putting myself at his mercy too. Thanks everyone


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

GotmyDTPgotmyDTP







Friday is always coffee day so I'll be playing. First one for hubby was a 6 out of 10, I'll get there Ha.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Right, I have realised I can't really make decent coffee on the new machine 'cos with the non pressurised portafilter it likes freshly ground and not the stuff we have to use up. So somewhat sub-par not much crema shots for now, including de-rigeur splutters... Sooooo glad I bought lots of coffee when it was on offer


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## _shakeyjake_ (Dec 16, 2016)

If the mazzer's are out of your budget I would recommend the Ibertital MC2' auto. I've had one with my Classic for about 2 years now. It's by no means quiet but seems to give a good grind, once grind level set theres no change. It as a crude timer that is adjusted on the side, a little fiddly to get right, but again once you dial it in it give very consistent dosing when weighed. Pretty much zero clumping either and very little static (depending on beans).

They get a bit of stick for being entry level, which it is, but I've had zero complaints with mine and I end up with excellent tasting coffee in the end. As someone said, you can pick one up for around £70-£80 second hand usually.


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## parpat23 (Nov 27, 2014)

eagerlearner said:


> Right, I have realised I can't really make decent coffee on the new machine 'cos with the non pressurised portafilter it likes freshly ground and not the stuff we have to use up. So somewhat sub-par not much crema shots for now, including de-rigeur splutters... Sooooo glad I bought lots of coffee when it was on offer


Hi eagerlearner, I too am a newbie with the world of espresso, and having reads lots and lots from this very helpful forum, I purchased a set of scales to weigh the coffee. Key is to ensure the increments of the scale is 0.1g. I bought a cheap one from amazon (Amir scales) for 8.99. This single piece of kit has helped immensely in my learning journey. And you'll need them once get your Mazzer


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thank you both lots to think about. My scales only go in 1g increments... for now I am a stealthy learner then like you @parpat23 ha, with lots of Lidl coffee to get through ;-) hubby is loving all the nice coffee anyway, he drinks instant (I can't stand it)


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

@parpat23 was is the Pocket scale they do at £8.99 you got, or the slightly more expensive £11.59 one https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMIR-Weighing-Stainless-Ingredients-Batteries/dp/B01DGLFVS0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1526648312&sr=8-4&keywords=Amir+scales


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## _shakeyjake_ (Dec 16, 2016)

I've got a set of the ones you linked to. I think it's usually the ones most go for. They're pretty inexpensive tho after 2 years mine are on their way out. I think coffee and water spillages on them haven't helped!


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## parpat23 (Nov 27, 2014)

eagerlearner said:


> @parpat23 was is the Pocket scale they do at £8.99 you got, or the slightly more expensive £11.59 one https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMIR-Weighing-Stainless-Ingredients-Batteries/dp/B01DGLFVS0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1526648312&sr=8-4&keywords=Amir+scales


I got the one you've linked to, but for 8.99 back in January. I think the pocket scale might be too small.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks both, will look into next month maybe


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> Thanks both, will look into next month maybe


They've been on prime deals quite often in the past. If you have the amazon ap on your phone & the scales in your wishlist you should get notified if they go on offer again.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Great yep added earlier so there they'll stay. I often find they discount things on your Wishlist if you leave them there long enough .

Would love to get your recommendations on knock boxes and a glass for the expresso to go in as usually we make lattes. For now I'm making do with a glass creme brulee cup


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

I currently use a cheap one much like this (Have 2 from when I was splitting shots). Wish I'd gone for the rhinowares one for the handle.

As for knockboxes, the small motta is very nice but the small geindenstein would work too. All depends on your the udget really.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Ah the rhino one was with the kit I just bought and sent back and the Geindenstein too I think


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

The medium grindenstein is small I have one, it does the job


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Got my refund, earlier than expected and without complications which is great.

From tomorrow I'll properly be looking for a good grinder. This morning my coffee was 14g going in but unsure of the weight out, used the naked portafilter and I'd say a 6 out of 10 again, the grind isn't fine enough.

Hubby is loving the experiments and extra coffee though ha.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Much better today using the NP, regular Lidl grind vs what I had left over from the fresh (Has Bean) grinds, the fresh def produced a better shot. I am finding it's better to add more, ie 16g, for flavour esp as we have lattes. I often let it overrun, so I get a fuller shot, rather than add water later. Should I do that or does it make it taste different?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> Much better today using the NP, regular Lidl grind vs what I had left over from the fresh (Has Bean) grinds, the fresh def produced a better shot. I am finding it's better to add more, ie 16g, for flavour esp as we have lattes. I often let it overrun, so I get a fuller shot, rather than add water later. Should I do that or does it make it taste different?


Nothing wrong with pulling a longer shot but changing the ratio will change the flavour. It could well be you prefer the taste to a 1:2 ratio. It's all part of dialing the bean in to gwt the result you're after. 




 goes into more detail.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thank you Ashcroc, I'll def be doing that soon as I get a grinder I can afford. I watched an e bay auction earlier, SGP but in the end it went for £105plus postage which I think is steep, I'd rather have new and the 3year lakeland warranty. . Let's see if something else crops up. I'm even starting to think the Bodum I looked at on Amazon would do for us.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Save up and buy one good grinder. Than you won't have to replace it anytime soon.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Got a Mazzer







the base of one anyway for £86 plus postage. Then need to get a hopper. Can I just get any size, ie the mini mazzer one?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Got a Mazzer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good work. I'd recommend doing the lens hood mod if you don't have a hopper anyway.

Got any photos?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi just trying to figure out how to add images as the 'insert image only has select file, not add file, iyswim...


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Ah looks like Chrome was just having a moment, and there is a basic vs more advanced uploader...


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

The usual recommendation for a lens hood is one which fits around the circumference of the top of the burr chamber. I disagree - these larger hoods are too floppy. I get best results with smaller and more sturdy lens hoods that fit into the top of the burr chamber with the metal ring still in them. Advantages:

1. You can get your whole palm over them and give them a good bash

2. They spring back so you can bop them again and again quickly

The exact circumference at the bottom of the rubber bit should correspond to the opening of the burr chamber. e.g. 60mm on a Super Jolly. I used a 49mm wide angle hood. I believe some 52mm will also fit. The trick is to get one which pushes in tight.

The lens hood blows out the residue of the grind, dramatically reducing retention.

I use 99% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning out the burr chamber and removing oils etc. Others may use different stuff. Best to keep solvents away from paintwork.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I use a lens hood less it's metal ring that fits around the top of the burr chamber. My hand is big enough to seal it off. I also hold it in place with a pipe clip. It should be possible to get one with a suitable size from a motor factors / halfords type outlet.

What I found is that without some sort of cover bits of bean come out and also coat the inside of the lens hood. Some people use a beer mat as a lid but anything will do. I use a bit of metal that I had lying about which is a loose fit in the bore of the top of the burr chamber. When the beans have been ground it sits low enough for the lens hood to be pressed down without removing it. This way all of the bits stop in the grind chamber and it reduces popcorning. As it takes up space it also improves the "puff". Opinions on the effect of popcorning on grind quality varies. I know what I think.

I find it's best to apply the puff with the grinder running. It leaves both the grind chamber and burrs relatively clear. More is blown out if the grill behind the doser over the grind chamber outlet is removed. It's a clip fit on mine. Grinds still get trapped there and will build up if they aren't brushed out after every shot even though they are only initially a small fraction of a gram.

On the newer 64mm mazzer min a length of 60mm outside diameter perspex tube could be used as a very cheap small hopper. It fits rather nicely but I may taper the end a touch to get more of it to go in. That could be done by hand. As the jolly uses the same size of burrs the same size of tube may be suitable. I intend to add a weight to that set up but when I used the large hopper that came with it I was surprised how low the beans could go before the burrs started started stirring and throwing them around. The went well into the neck of the hopper before there was obvious problems.

John

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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

ajohn said:


> I use a lens hood less it's metal ring that fits around the top of the burr chamber. My hand is big enough to seal it off. I also hold it in place with a pipe clip. It should be possible to get one with a suitable size from a motor factors / halfords type outlet.
> 
> -


That's the way that's usually recommended here - fit round the outside - and the bit I disagree with. My question is does the lens hood spring back every time you bop it? If it does, that's OK. If it doesn't that's a problem because I find it needs five or six quick bops to clear everything.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi everyone, sorry I'm really not following. .. Do I not just buy what's called a hopper on eBay?

Or are you saying no, save money and use tubing ? I am not mechanically inclined but do want to understand... I'll get the machine by tomorrow and was hoping today to just order the hopper bit but sounds like I'm best waiting until it arrives tomorrow and popping up a photo of the bit where the burrs are if this helps?


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

The link below is the one I bought for my SJ. It has a metal ring at the base and fits perfectly. As you can see in the photo it sits where the hopper does.

Neewer 58MM Collapsible Rubber Lens Hood for Canon with Microfiber Cleaning Cloth https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S636EQC?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thank you @cloughy, looks like out of stock, I like the look though as wouldn't be too huge then.

I found this under the 'customers also bought'

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phot-R-Professional-Collapsible-Universal-Multi-Lens/dp/B00IAP9IKA/ref=pd_sim_421_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00IAP9IKA&pd_rd_r=FZHREZG10MM23E7SDSFZ&pd_rd_w=9sswz&pd_rd_wg=CzAFH&psc=1&refRID=FZHREZG10MM23E7SDSFZ


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Yep that looks identical so will work just the same. Then just find a suitable lid to go on top and you're good to go


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thank you ,so I just need to measure the diameter of the grinder tomorrow to check it's 60mm then find another £14 of stuff to order from Amazon sounds like


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Hi everyone, sorry I'm really not following. .. Do I not just buy what's called a hopper on eBay?
> 
> Or are you saying no, save money and use tubing ? I am not mechanically inclined but do want to understand... I'll get the machine by tomorrow and was hoping today to just order the hopper bit but sounds like I'm best waiting until it arrives tomorrow and popping up a photo of the bit where the burrs are if this helps?


A hopper will do nothing about retention - it just stores the beans. To minimise retention you need to blow air through the burr chamber and out through the chute where the grinds exit. This clears stale grinds out so your coffee stays fresh. The purpose of a lens hood is that when it collapses it blows air through the chamber. So it should be a tight fit inside or outside the top ring of the burr chamber, two ways of doing it. I recommend fitting a sturdy lens hood inside because as I was saying it springs back when you push it down, so you can puff five or six times quickly. Otherwise you have to keep pulling up the lens hood after each puff, which frankly is pants. Does this make it clearer?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Better option.. .https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F271395562751

Thanks Les ,until the photo Cloughy put up by had no understanding what everyone was talking about as I've only ever seen a few pics of the grinder with regular clear hopper on. I think I need to see the machine to understand about the blowing etc as I'm clueless as to what it'll need or not need until I've seen it in action. Sounds like what you mean is once I've bought a hood I need to collapse it down on occasion to blow grinds through?

Or do I need to buy 2 different things?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Better option.. .https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F271395562751
> 
> Thanks Les ,until the photo Cloughy put up by had no understanding what everyone was talking about as I've only ever seen a few pics of the grinder with regular clear hopper on. I think I need to see the machine to understand about the blowing etc as I'm clueless as to what it'll need or not need until I've seen it in action. Sounds like what you mean is once I've bought a hood I need to collapse it down on occasion to blow grinds through?
> 
> Or do I need to buy 2 different things?


You blow the grinds out every time you grind beans, not "on occasion". You need to choose between a lens hood and a rigid hopper or tube which does nothing about retention, but has the virtue of holding more beans. Lens hoods are really for single dosing, or maybe enough for 2 or 3 cups. So work out how much beans you want to grind each time, and whether you want to keep them in a jar etc or in the hopper itself. For single dosing you weigh the beans before you put them in, so for 18g in you get 18g ground coffee out to put in your portafilter. This includes the few grams you puff out with the lens hood. So virtually no retention - all the ground coffee that comes out is the fresh beans you just put in. The doser complicates the issue since that retains the ground coffee, but that's another subject.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> Better option.. .https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F271395562751
> 
> Thanks Les ,until the photo Cloughy put up by had no understanding what everyone was talking about as I've only ever seen a few pics of the grinder with regular clear hopper on. I think I need to see the machine to understand about the blowing etc as I'm clueless as to what it'll need or not need until I've seen it in action. Sounds like what you mean is once I've bought a hood I need to collapse it down on occasion to blow grinds through?
> 
> Or do I need to buy 2 different things?


It's the action of popping the lens hood down with your hand or a lid on top that blows the grinds through. It's very much a single doseing mod but it leaves the grinder at a more kitchen friendly height.

There are some decent photos of an SJ with lens hood on post 37 of this thread.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

thanks Les, we'll be grinding very little so I'm sure the lens hood will be fine. Will prob grind enough on a Friday to last couple days then store in an airtight container. Gottcha re blowing grinds out.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

thanks Ashcroc yes I understand now, a bit like when you pull a plunger on the toilet in that you need to create a vacuum I suppose.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

eagerlearner said:


> thanks Les, we'll be grinding very little so I'm sure the lens hood will be fine. Will prob grind enough on a Friday to last couple days then store in an airtight container. Gottcha re blowing grinds out.


Please just grind to order. The coffee will be so much fresher that way.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Better option.. .https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F271395562751
> 
> If you end up buying this one, a suitable lid can be found at Wilko. They sell a pack of three (!!) food pots with lids. These lids are a very snug fit and require a little effort in fitting over the lens hood. but they do provide a good seal to puff out the chamber. They were less than £2,


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Here's a photo of my lens hood for my SJ, which fits inside the burr chamber ring. It's a no-name 49mm wide-angle hood so I can't give you a link. The point is that it's a strong rubber hood and springs back each time you push it down. If you look closely I haven't pushed it right in, but it does fit in snugly and works perfectly.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks all, ah I knew I would get a telling off about pre-grinding ha. Ok I promise...

Great tip re Wilco there Batian, don't have one near me but will try to get something, never know we might have something usable at home. @les24preludes so ours is much less than the 58mm then at 49mm?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Thanks all, ah I knew I would get a telling off about pre-grinding ha. Ok I promise...
> 
> Great tip re Wilco there Batian, don't have one near me but will try to get something, never know we might have something usable at home. @les24preludes so ours is much less than the 58mm then at 49mm?


Yes - it pushes inside with the steel ring still in place. The bigger ones fit outside and you remove the steel ring. I wish I could recommend an exact model but mine is no-name. One I had which just happened to fit - pure luck. The important thing, as I keep saying, is that it springs back when you push it down.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

@eagerlearner this short video explaining the use of a rubber lens hood and lid may help you to visualise its use with a super jolly






hope you find it useful


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

That video looks familiar


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The lens hood on my Mazzer Mini is a 67mm one. With the metal ring in it removed it fits nicely. The diameter it fits on in the Mini is about 64 to 65mm. As shown in the photo I posted I also hold it in place with a pipe clip. It will slip down without it and reduce the puff. It also blocks off the hopper retaining screw hole. I bought the hood off amazon for £4.90 on prime. No point posting a link as they have upped the price to over £9.







The metal rings in them come out easily - often mentioned in reviews by people that buy them for photography.

My Mini is the latest version and they may have modified the part the hopper fits into. If the Jolly is the same and you look into it there will be a ledge just above the burrs with 3 protrusions on it. This is probably why the beans don't bounce about with the hopper on it unless they get really low - well into the neck. If you use a tube hopper there will be some retention. The usual answer to that to get rid of stale grinds when the grinder hasn't been used, say over night or longer, is to simply grind out about 10g and throw them away.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks everyone,great video there @coffeechap and nice to 'meet' you. Makes a lot more sense now.

Grinder will be here this afternoon and I can get measuring the top bit. Hopefully the cheap ebay one will do, at the end of the day this mod is still cheaper than the clear hopper, £25ish I think.

From Cofeechap vid, I am now left seeing that the large container where the coffee drops into will be overkill for us lightweights, it might as well come straight out of the shute direct to portafilter... or, we might just end up drinking more coffee ha.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi all,

machine has arrived and seems fine, 65mm opening so I will look on ebay for 67mm as imagine it needs to be wider.

Everyone on ebay seems to only mention the outer dimension not the lower one, also screw vs snap on versions?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi everyone, well it seems I'm the unluckiest person.. .This Mazzer grinds, but only at level 9. Anything lower than that and nothing comes out. Turning to lower is incredibly hard, and the noise changes at level 6. @coffeechap does this sound fixable or do I have another eBay return on my hands? Might be others can advise too...

The SDT is not happy with such a coarse grind, needless to say.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Unplug it and unscrew the top and get the burrs out. Need to have a look to check the condition really and also check the three springs are ok and keeping things level. Does it run ok if you have nothing in?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You need to clean all the threads and lightly lubricate them are the burrs getting to toauchingbpoint?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Unflavoured lip salve seems to be a popular lubricant. Smear on the thread and also on mating faces that rub. Mazzers tend to be stiff and jerky when adjusted - the adjustment lever helps.

The best way of finding out when the burrs touch for me has proved to be a socket set and rotate that way. Some listen for a chirp but I noticed that the noise changes as they get close and before they rub. Pumping air I suspect. Also on my Mini the stop screw is in the correct place to just prevent them touching. And I do mean just. Suggests Mazzer use CNC machining centres if all of their grinders are like that.

I've also marked one of the "wings" on the top burr carrier so that it can always be put back in the same place. I used an auto centre punch but did put the wing on something solid before using it - might snap it off without that.

The adjustment thread on all grinders I am aware of is left handed so turned clockwise viewed from above to get the carrier out.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The numbers on the "dial" are pretty meaningless. Mine for instance is near 6 where it's currently set, the stop screw would prevent me from getting to 5.

The setting as I and probably as others would see it is 3.3 notches on the rim away from one of the holes in the rim where the adjustment lever could be fitted.

The hole I use is the first one going coarser away from the stop screw so I can always get back to that pretty easily. You may find there is a suitable hole for the stop screw - if it has one. Rather than find out some just remove them,








So basically 1 notch on the rim is a significant tuning step. Forget the numbers other than maybe as ref for notches - pretty poor one though

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks everyone, unfortunately this mechanical aspect is not my strongpoint, have sent this link to hubby to see if he will have a go over the weekend at dismantling to have a look. I feel really disappointed and frustrated it's been such a faff so far (aside from the Sage







), with luck though he'll be able to fix it or get some clarity at least. The ebayer is pushing me so that 'ebay can release payment'. I have not heard of this, maybe it is because he only has a few feedback. I will message him to say it is not working as expected and that we are going to take a closer look over the weekend.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

We've opened it up, lubricated the threads on the adjustment ring. The springs and burrs look fine. It will work but if you adjust it to when the burrs are touching it doesn't move at all. If you go halfway to the fine setting the burrs seem to touch basically. The only level that works is the 9 setting that's basically too coarse.

Inside everything seemed level.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Can you post some pictures of the burrs, specifically the grinding side


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> We've opened it up, lubricated the threads on the adjustment ring. The springs and burrs look fine. It will work but if you adjust it to when the burrs are touching it doesn't move at all. If you go halfway to the fine setting the burrs seem to touch basically. The only level that works is the 9 setting that's basically too coarse.
> 
> Inside everything seemed level.


Hope you noticed that I mentioned that the notches on the edge of the adjustment ring are tuning steps - in fact 1/2 of one of those or even less makes a difference. The numbers really don't mean anything at all unless some one has fitted it with a none standard scale.

From touching try going coarser by say 25 degrees of rotation. See what that does. Then go finer by 5 degree steps. The notches look to represent about 3 degrees of rotation to me.

There was a thread recently about checking grinders out. This included the noise they make when the bearings wear out. I can't find it. Some one else may have more luck.

John

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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

You might want to try shining a torch through the exit chute so you can see the burrs- Unplug -adjust the grinder till the burrs are almost touching then look through the exit chute while turning the lower burr by hand or with a socket - does the gap between the two burrs change at all - it shouldn't - if it does the lower burr carrier may be bent on its shaft - if everything seems ok next try aligning the burrs, whiteboard marker etc-

at the very least when you get a mazzer remove the burrs and clean under them and replace carefully - they may have been badly installed at some point


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi everyone, we told the ebayer there was a problem, he's refunded within a few moments of my request. Now unsure how it works as I arranged the pick up, I'd be out of pocket if I had to pay postage again.. . Anyway, hubby feels he checked everything he could and nothing seemed obvious, the burrs seem OK, he'd checked online as to what they should look like new.

He might have another try in the morning, but is genuinely stumped, he took a mechanics course and is training to be an electrician so he's technically minded.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Hi everyone, we told the ebayer there was a problem, he's refunded within a few moments of my request. Now unsure how it works as I arranged the pick up, I'd be out of pocket if I had to pay postage again.. . Anyway, hubby feels he checked everything he could and nothing seemed obvious, the burrs seem OK, he'd checked online as to what they should look like new.
> 
> He might have another try in the morning, but is genuinely stumped, he took a mechanics course and is training to be an electrician so he's technically minded.


So it's going back? I would've liked to see some photos? Such as burr condition and what the grounds looked like. Did you manage to get the burrs to touch at all?


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi Joey at the moment he's just refunded, and yes the burrs are touching when hubby got to around level 6 to give you an idea. When it's set to 6 it won't even pull beans through, hence nothing coming through shute. The grind is very coarse we can only get it to function at level 9 no lower, you can see chunky bits, OK for a cafetiere if we had one. I can post pics, hubby compared our burrs with pics of new ones online and said they looked the same. I'll snap some photos tomorrow so you can see if anything stands out as obvious. Would a video help? I was thinking we could post to YouTube.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The number spacings aren't far off the 25 degrees I mentioned as a starter going from touching to coarser. If that worked you would probably be at the coarser end of the espresso range and would probably find you need to go several notches finer in practice.

I can't see how worn burrs could do this - crap grind yes and probably more clumping. I understand you could check if they are mazzer burrs - remove one and you should see their name on the underside. My mini has an odd background so I removed one to check. If they aren't retained properly all sorts of things could happen.

I suspect these might give you a clue what the problem is, especially the first one and where most of the noise is coming from

[video=youtube;qED5-j9CAec]






My Mazzer Mini is more or less new. All I can here when it's turned off is a bearing running down in speed noise. Hard to describe. It sounds almost like some sort of brake is in action. My Robur has done more work so that has gone - it doesn't make any noticeable noise at all when it's slowing down after being turned off. When running neither sounds like the first video.







Hubby may know that the area noises are coming from can be detected by holding the handle of a screwdriver on the ear and the other end on the part being checked. It'll probably sound loudest when the end is nearest to the source.







Doesn't always work but often does.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)




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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)




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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Hi everyone,

We watched some videos online and were braver today - the lower burr was removed too, everything cleaned and hoovered - this time, we got to the point the burrs were touching, then went back slowly until grinds finally started coming through the chute. We now have it at that setting, ie the finest the machine will do. The Sage was much happier, and you can see the shot. We timed a shot and it was around 24 seconds. Using the naked PF there was a point where it jetted out in 2 streams for a little bit, and some showering outside of the shower head (1 thin spurt for around 5 seconds) - is this too fine? The machine is not choking though. The stream of coffee is much creamier/caramel looking and thicker than before so I know this is much better already.

Do you think everything looks as it should, ie should we contact the seller to say we will keep it?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

eagerlearner said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> We watched some videos online and were braver today - the lower burr was removed too, everything cleaned and hoovered - this time, we got to the point the burrs were touching, then went back slowly until grinds finally started coming through the chute. We now have it at that setting, ie the finest the machine will do. The Sage was much happier, and you can see the shot. We timed a shot and it was around 24 seconds. Using the naked PF there was a point where it jetted out in 2 streams for a little bit, and some showering outside of the shower head (1 thin spurt for around 5 seconds) - is this too fine? The machine is not choking though. The stream of coffee is much creamier/caramel looking and thicker than before so I know this is much better already.
> 
> Do you think everything looks as it should, ie should we contact the seller to say we will keep it?


Yeah keep it.


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks Joey and everyone for bearing with us - need to now figure out how to re-pay for the item as he refunded it so fast before we have even shipped it back to him.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LOL I thought the problem could be user related, thinking numbers were sensible setting changes but it seems that mentioning notches and angles for starting points didn't help.

I assume this is the beast

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZZER-SUPER-JOLLY-TIMER-SILVER-COFFEE-GRINDER-BEAN-GRINDER-/153020873034?epid=1275716849&hash=item23a0c1394a%3Ag%3A57QAAOSwC%7E1a-IrZ&nma=true&si=CLYetD%252B8faRp0sbxpLV1nGMgwIU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Missing the adjustment thingy. Some people just use a long screw that fits in the holes in the side of the adjustment ring - helps a lot for fine tuning as even a fraction of the notches on the ring makes a difference.

Personally I would still consider bearing noise before making a decision on keeping. It is cheap for a Jolly though.

John

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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks, yes it is,  it seems fine now and I'm sure a screw will do, though for our needs re lattes the current setting will be fine I'm sure. I've sent the guy a message and his cash back. EBay doesn't seem have any other setting to reverse things so I guess I'll leave feedback and hopefully that's the end of that and we can take a breather ha.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Have a well earned latte


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## eagerlearner (May 12, 2018)

Thanks @joey24dirt, I had 2 doubles, delicious but bad idea 

Makes me realise I've had some pretty bad 'lattes'in coffee shops, had one Thurs which i knew was just acidic compared to what we're making at home recently ,even with too coarse a grind.


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