# KINU M47 and M68 grinder



## doru

New kid on the block ??

KINU M47


----------



## doru

KINU M68


----------



## The Systemic Kid

More detail on Home Barista  *here*


----------



## doru

They look awesome


----------



## Phobic

Hand grinder looks great, the one on the stand looks a bit flimsy though however the price is pretty impressive.


----------



## doru

Trying to get more info on them since they'r new on the market


----------



## Grahamg

I'm very interested in the larger one - gearing for the grind sounds like a crucial improvement over the HG1 if what I've read of users' experience.


----------



## 7493

I like the look of the conical...


----------



## Kahweol

Excellent, another entry into the market!

I was waiting for the mahlgut to go back into stock but might be tempted by the M68 instead. The perpendicular handle is a treat at its price point, and thank god someone has finally introduced gearing. It was so obvious!!

I'm not that keen on the aesthetics though...


----------



## doru

I think there's a electric version in the works as well,if it will ever come o life we can only wait and see


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Just got in touch with Christian from Kinu via FB. Has anyone pre-ordered the M68 (for delivery by end of January) or had any experience with a pre-production model here? Looks like a great alternative to a Pharos or HG one, and it's made in the EU.


----------



## Mrb2020

I'm tempted by the M68 and have a Pharos, liking the idea of the geared drive and vertical handle. I've sent them a message via FB so will see what they say.


----------



## Mrb2020

They got back to me and it's 668 Euros, not sure I fancy coughing up that much yet.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mrb2020 said:


> I'm tempted by the M68 and have a Pharos, liking the idea of the geared drive and vertical handle. I've sent them a message via FB so will see what they say.


Two of us. I've been in contact with them and they are brilliant in replying via FB. I have also been looking at the reviews on Kaffee Nets (German Forum), the Dutch Forum (can't remember the name now) and the Romanian Forum (Espressoman).

The feedback so far is good, but it is not without any issues. From what I can see however, it seems to be a step up from the Pharos, but also costing twice as much.

Good luck, and keep us posted.


----------



## Mrb2020

I spoke with Christian who I think is the designer/ owner. Really interesting and explained more about the grinder to me. I like that it has the reduction gears (2:4:1) and a positive that there isn't any plastic in the internals.


----------



## mirceat

A recent article from the Daily Coffee News reveals the Kinu grinders are produced by a small, family-run company:

"Dr. Eduard Biernatek, a dentist by profession, founded Graef GmbH 25 years ago for the design and manufacture of dentistry tools and instruments. Shortly thereafter the company expanded into spice mill and coffee grinder design and manufacture for branding and sale by other companies."

His son Christian is "an engineer and sales manager for Graef GmbH, the parent company of Kinu Grinders."


----------



## the_partisan

I have got a M47 now as well, as I was looking for a replacement to my Feldgrind which is no longer usable.

First impressions: really solid construction, it does feel quite heavy (about 1kg I think) and nothing really moves or wiggles. It should last forever.

No burr rub whatsoever at any setting, but then it does stop just before the burrs would get locked in. I found it easier to grind it with then the Feldgrind effort wise since it fits my hand better, and has a thumb rest. I also like that the handle is screwed in, so it won't come off during grinding. I plan to use it for Turkish coffee, and potentially espresso. Also communication with the company has been quite quick (unlike MBK..) and pleasant.

Will be happy to answer any questions.


----------



## doolallysquiff

the_partisan said:


> I have got a M47 now as well, as I was looking for a replacement to my Feldgrind which is no longer usable.
> 
> First impressions: really solid construction, it does feel quite heavy (about 1kg I think) and nothing really moves or wiggles. It should last forever.
> 
> No burr rub whatsoever at any setting, but then it does stop just before the burrs would get locked in. I found it easier to grind it with then the Feldgrind effort wise since it fits my hand better, and has a thumb rest. I also like that the handle is screwed in, so it won't come off during grinding. I plan to use it for Turkish coffee, and potentially espresso. Also communication with the company has been quite quick (unlike MBK..) and pleasant.
> 
> Will be happy to answer any questions.


I would like to say the same about communication, but I have found it lacking. I sent a couple of emails which took over a week to get a reply. Once I did get a response, it didn't totally answer my questions. I sent another email requesting further information including the price of the product: still waiting!

Google the company and you get their Facebook page. Click the link to their website: http://www.kinugrinders.com and you don't get a great deal. It may be a very good product, however, if I'm unable to obtain a price for the grinder and a timely response, I'm reluctant to place an order at this time.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

doolallysquiff said:


> I would like to say the same about communication, but I have found it lacking. I sent a couple of emails which took over a week to get a reply. Once I did get a response, it didn't totally answer my questions. I sent another email requesting further information including the price of the product: still waiting!
> 
> Google the company and you get their Facebook page. Click the link to their website: http://www.kinugrinders.com and you don't get a great deal. It may be a very good product, however, if I'm unable to obtain a price for the grinder and a timely response, I'm reluctant to place an order at this time.


That has not been my experience. I have been in contact with Christian since the new year, and, on a Sunday night, we were talking Coffee over the FB chat.

The communication is superb from my experience. Yes, they don't have a website yet, and the stuff on FB is not brilliant I know. However, he has clarified and went through all my questions in a timely manner.

The best way is the FB to reach out to him is the FB chat.

I've just ordered a M68 myself, and can't wait to get my hands on it. The next batch is set to be distributed on the 17th of March. That will be my first manual non-small conical burr grinder.


----------



## Syenitic

I am curious here. I dont have much interest in the smaller machine, I think this may just be another quality grinder facing of with the Lido's, Hausgrind and maybe the Feldgrind. But the bigger beast; did anyone notice in the video that the arm grinding using the 68 was clad in very different clothing to the demonstrator pulling the shot from its output?. Gearing to speed up output is a great idea, but Newton himself told us you don't get anything for free. I wonder when this grinder is faced up to a light roast (unless you have arms like Arnie) how free the mechanism turns? I have noticed serious differences on ease of grinding between the feldgrind and the hausgrind, both of which have 1:1 gearing, but the hausgrind has a longer handle and so a lever advantage. (the feldgrind can stall in my puny hands).

Happy to be told my concerns are a load of bull, I like the concise appearance of that bigger grinder.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Syenitic said:


> I am curious here. I dont have much interest in the smaller machine, I think this may just be another quality grinder facing of with the Lido's, Hausgrind and maybe the Feldgrind. But the bigger beast; did anyone notice in the video that the arm grinding using the 68 was clad in very different clothing to the demonstrator pulling the shot from its output?. Gearing to speed up output is a great idea, but Newton himself told us you don't get anything for free. I wonder when this grinder is faced up to a light roast (unless you have arms like Arnie) how free the mechanism turns? I have noticed serious differences on ease of grinding between the feldgrind and the hausgrind, both of which have 1:1 gearing, but the hausgrind has a longer handle and so a lever advantage. (the feldgrind can stall in my puny hands).
> 
> Happy to be told my concerns are a load of bull, I like the concise appearance of that bigger grinder.


 A ha! Well spotted! That's definitely a man's arm/hand grinding there!


----------



## the_partisan

He has also been responsive to my inquiries on FB and Email (usually in a few hours at most). Regarding the ease of grinding, I found it quite a bit easier than Feldgrind with lighter beans, there is more leverage due to bigger handle and overall less vertical movement since the handle is screwed in.

I paid for this end of Dec, so I don't know when the next batch will be available.

These were the launch prices



> M38 - 149 Euro
> 
> M47 - 209 Euro
> 
> M68 - 599 Euro


and the prices afterwards being:



> M38 = 179 Euro
> 
> M47 = 249 Euro
> 
> M68 = 668 Euro


----------



## Dan430

It be great if someone would post a review video on the KINU grinders.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Dan430 said:


> It be great if someone would post a review video on the KINU grinders.


There is a lot of info on kaffee-netz, the German forum.

There was a review there view video made by a member, but the videos have been removed since.


----------



## Dan430

pessutojr said:


> There is a lot of info on kaffee-netz, the German forum.
> 
> There was a review there view video made by a member, but the videos have been removed since.


Yup i've seen some but as you said its german. but would love an honest review and not marketing review.


----------



## Stanic

I saw the brushed one over at kaffee netz and contacted them on FB, they are very helpful, ended up with pre-ordering it

















image: Henning S.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> I saw the brushed one over at kaffee netz and contacted them on FB, they are very helpful, ended up with pre-ordering it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 25029
> 
> 
> image: Henning S.


Yep, likewise. Should arrive by mid March. Can't wait.


----------



## Stanic

pessutojr said:



> Yep, likewise. Should arrive by mid March. Can't wait.


good that February is so short


----------



## Stanic

bit more info from the german forum:

the Kinu M68 weights good 5 kg and is 21 cm high. The diameter of the base plate is 18 cm and the diameter of the mill body is about 11 cm.


----------



## Dylan

Syenitic said:


> I am curious here. I dont have much interest in the smaller machine, I think this may just be another quality grinder facing of with the Lido's, Hausgrind and maybe the Feldgrind. But the bigger beast; did anyone notice in the video that the arm grinding using the 68 was clad in very different clothing to the demonstrator pulling the shot from its output?. Gearing to speed up output is a great idea, but Newton himself told us you don't get anything for free. I wonder when this grinder is faced up to a light roast (unless you have arms like Arnie) how free the mechanism turns? I have noticed serious differences on ease of grinding between the feldgrind and the hausgrind, both of which have 1:1 gearing, but the hausgrind has a longer handle and so a lever advantage. (the feldgrind can stall in my puny hands).
> 
> Happy to be told my concerns are a load of bull, I like the concise appearance of that bigger grinder.


I think it's the other way around isn't it? The gears are there to make grinding easier (and slower), not faster.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

PS: There are people on the german forums saying they use the M68 with really "bright" beans (Thanks google translate) and have no issues with the M68 grinder.

Also Christian from Kinu was saying that some parents have their child grinding their beans for them. So yeah, it has a reduction gear of 2.4:1. I am no engineer here, but my understanding is that it is 2.4 turns of the handle for 1 revolution of the burr. Please correct if I am wrong.


----------



## Stanic

well, although they were very nice on FB, I didn't receive a confirmation or any reaction at all to my pre-order email in 5 working days..cancelled after I found one M68 used for sale, on the romanian forum


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> well, although they were very nice on FB, I didn't receive a confirmation or any reaction at all to my pre-order email in 5 working days..cancelled after I found one M68 used for sale, on the romanian forum


Well, I am sorry and happy for you at the same time. 

It would be great if you could report back how you get on.


----------



## Stanic

pessutojr said:


> Well, I am sorry and happy for you at the same time.
> 
> It would be great if you could report back how you get on.


thanks







I will be pleased to do


----------



## mikemaddux

Stanic said:


> well, although they were very nice on FB, I didn't receive a confirmation or any reaction at all to my pre-order email in 5 working days..cancelled after I found one M68 used for sale, on the romanian forum


Is there something about making high end manual coffee grinders that makes you unable to provide basic customer service? (reference Made By Knock)


----------



## MWJB

mikemaddux said:


> Is there something about making high end manual coffee grinders that makes you unable to provide basic customer service? (reference Made By Knock)


Do you post here for any other reason to knock Knock? Remember you are dealing with relatively small manufacturers in a niche market, you want mass market, one click ordering, go to Amazon & buy something else.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

mikemaddux said:


> Is there something about making high end manual coffee grinders that makes you unable to provide basic customer service? (reference Made By Knock)


That's very harsh. Besides, out of curiosity, have you ever tried to communicate with Kinu through the provided channels (Facebook/Email) or are you just having a dig?

I bought the M68 grinder from Kinu and my pre-delivery experience was superb. It should be delivered in mid March.

Christian (from Kinu) seems to be a busy man overseeing the production of the grinders and running the business (I've talked to him at length).

It's a small family business and most of the "marketing" so far is word of mouth.

Once I send my order form to him, He came back to me within 3 days when he discussed the grinder, delivery estimates and shipping with me, invoiced me and I promptly paid for it.

So far can't complain.


----------



## Dylan

MWJB said:


> Do you post here for any other reason to knock Knock? Remember you are dealing with relatively small manufacturers in a niche market, you want mass market, one click ordering, go to Amazon & buy something else.


Not quite the same, everyone understands small manufacturers taking time to fulfill orders but taking money and then refusing to even answer emails from your customers is something else all together.

MBK have no one but themselves to thank for the sour attitude many have toward their customer service.


----------



## Stanic

few more pics of the M68 from the romanian forum, credit Lyvyoo


----------



## the_partisan

MWJB said:


> Do you post here for any other reason to knock Knock? Remember you are dealing with relatively small manufacturers in a niche market, you want mass market, one click ordering, go to Amazon & buy something else.


I had to deal with Peter from MBK. He first asked me to send my Feldgrind to him, but then never picked up the package, and after not replying to my mails for a while, he replied after a while then rescheduled it for redelivery and the package was not picked up again. He completely stopped responding after that and the package was returned to me. I think he has some communication issues - so it's really hard to deal with him personally. He would do very well to hire some custom service/support staff.


----------



## the_partisan

Regarding Kinu, their order process is a bit clunky, you have to fill out of a form and then they send you an invoice, after which you wire the money and the shipment is made. They never left any mail unanswered for me though, you can try [email protected] or [email protected].


----------



## MWJB

the_partisan said:


> I had to deal with Peter from MBK. He first asked me to send my Feldgrind to him, but then never picked up the package, and after not replying to my mails for a while, he replied after a while then rescheduled it for redelivery and the package was not picked up again. He completely stopped responding after that and the package was returned to me. I think he has some communication issues - so it's really hard to deal with him personally. He would do very well to hire some custom service/support staff.


Indeed, I bought my Feld from a reseller, so if I had the same issue as you I can't be sure whether the outcome would have been different...I would have expected the reseller to provide replacement or part. My point was that this thread is about Kinu grinders, not Knock...it's unfair to make assumptions that poor communication & late delivery is something that plagues hand grinder manufacturers. I have been in the position of building stuff in the past & had suppliers simply tell me they have discontinued an essential & unique part...this can be something that can take months to rectify.

I'll wait a day or two for a grinder from Amazon, I have waited several months for small production run grinders from the manufacturer and been very pleased with the outcome. I can understand @Stanic & his keenness to get his hands on the product, but in the big picture, a 5 day wait doesn't seem unreasonable?

Maybe this thread can remain pertinent to Kinu & not descent into yet another platform for airing grievances with a completely unrelated manufacturer?


----------



## tcw

I really like the idea of this grinder (M38 or M47), but the weight is putting me off a little given I'd want to use either for travelling.


----------



## Stanic

MWJB said:


> @Stanic & his keenness to get his hands on the product, but in the big picture, a 5 day wait doesn't seem unreasonable??


In the big picture it definitely doesn't matter at all, in my small universe I was told that I'll receive a pre-order confirmation on next day..when I inquired two days later I was told that I'll get it on Monday and that the guy is sick..ok no problem, waiting for the email, while at the same time other guys seem to get their pre-orders confirmed..after I found another option I don't care about them any longer, if they don't care about me


----------



## dlight

Wow, you have a chip on your shoulder


----------



## the_partisan

M47 weighs exactly 1kg.

The settings I used so far have been:

2.0-2.4 Kalita Wave

~1.4 Aeropress

~0.8-0.9 Espresso

Does anyone else have setting numbers to share as guidelines?


----------



## Stanic

dlight said:


> Wow, you have a chip on your shoulder


Me?  well if I don't respond to someone ordering services from me, they usually don't ask twice


----------



## doru

No issues with my order for the M47.Like someone said earlier the ordering process is a bit clunky,maybe that will change once they'r website is up but in regards with communications all I can say is thumbs up so all in all since it arrived I've been munching through beens day in day out with no issues.

@the_partisan 0,7 to 0.9 are also roughly the settings I use for espresso myself


----------



## mirceat

tcw said:


> I really like the idea of this grinder (M38 or M47), but the weight is putting me off a little given I'd want to use either for travelling.


There were some rumours about a low cost M38 Light, which could be lighter and a better option for travelling. Some pics on the Romanian forum http://www.espressoman.ro/forum/Thread-Kinu-M38-Light

It was supposed to be launched on the first months of 2017.


----------



## mikemaddux

Dylan said:


> Not quite the same, everyone understands small manufacturers taking time to fulfill orders but taking money and then refusing to even answer emails from your customers is something else all together.
> 
> MBK have no one but themselves to thank for the sour attitude many have toward their customer service.


I was unfair to Kinu in even mentioning them in the same breath as MBK. I am in fact a likely future customer. They seem to have an excellent product and do seem to care about their customers. My apologies.


----------



## Stanic

I'll post more later, here is a phone shot of the M68 next to the Portaspresso Rossa.

It is very solid


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> I'll post more later, here is a phone shot of the M68 next to the Portaspresso Rossa.
> 
> It is very solid
> 
> View attachment 25277


I wait eagerly for someone to post a video of their routine from grind to brew.

Nice one, enjoy!


----------



## Stanic

pessutojr said:


> I wait eagerly for someone to post a video of their routine from grind to brew.
> 
> Nice one, enjoy!


Thanks, I'll try tomorrow ;-)


----------



## Stanic

Some quick observations till I process the video..there is some work to be done before.

The grinder is really solid, heavy and inspires confidence, the settings are sort of clicking but it feels stepless, the clicks are sort of just for guidance. Grinding does require some effort and you need to hold the top with the left hand. It grinds much faster than Feldgrind, probably twice as fast, I've measured it in the video. There is some static, I'll probably try grounding the output chute to see any effect. Grinds are very fluffy thanks to the direct, unobstructed output part. I've dialed in the Portaspresso grinding five 14g doses of dark roasted beans, it was much less tiring compared to Feldgrind, I also ground one 25g dose of medium roast for drip and it went very fast as well.

I'm really happy with it.


----------



## Zephyp

Could this thread include M38, the smaller version of the M47? And does anyone have the M38?

I'm looking for a new grinder and the M47 is on the board, but then I noticed the M38, which also looks interesting.


----------



## the_partisan

Zephyp said:


> Could this thread include M38, the smaller version of the M47? And does anyone have the M38?
> 
> I'm looking for a new grinder and the M47 is on the board, but then I noticed the M38, which also looks interesting.


I think it's fairly similar to M47, but smaller burrs. I guess it'll be less effort per turn, but more times you have turn the handle? But yes it would be good to get an opinion from somebody who has used both.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> There is some static, I'll probably try grounding the output chute to see any effect.


Hi Stanic, thank you so much for your feedback. On static, did you try RDT, which is to add a few droplets of water before you grind? Some people use a atomiser/spray to mist the grinds for better area coverage.


----------



## Stanic

here is a comparison video of grinding at espresso setting, with the Kinu M68 and Feldgrind


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> here is a comparison video of grinding at espresso setting, with the Kinu M68 and Feldgrind


Very good. There seems to be a lot of static on that cup!

Did you try RDT?


----------



## Stanic

pessutojr said:


> Very good. There seems to be a lot of static on that cup!
> 
> Did you try RDT?


I'll look for an atomizer tomorrow


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Cool! I don't know if you remember, but there was a video on the German Forum at some point, but he took it out. He sprayed a few times and the output was pretty good. Same goes for the HG-1, spray a few times and static is tamed quite a bit.

Can't wait until I get mine, will do the same. Once again, thank you!

PS: I bought an atomiser already in "readiness' for the Kinu arrival. I paid £0.75 from a chemist / drug store.


----------



## Stanic

here is a video of my workflow with the Portaspresso and Kinu, a prime example of the Guy-who-didn't-screw-the-portafilter-in-properly


----------



## Dylan

How are you getting on with controlling the pressure ramp up with the Rossa? It's really easy to overshoot.


----------



## Stanic

I've had some really nice and controlled shots, ramping to 9 bar in 5 seconds, keep there for 10 sec. and gradually fall to 6 bar, or pre-infusion at 1,5 then ramp-up to 6 bar..of course my hands are not super-steady all the time

the master class part of the website by Ross is also very helpful


----------



## Stanic

Just a heads up.. There is another M68 for sale at the romanian forum


----------



## Stanic

people over at the german forum are posting pics of their new deliveries of the M68, seems like there are design upgrades like three legs instead of two, new rubber band on the bottom of the stand, plastic cover and a neat carrying system. Also the magnetic funnel is now made out of single piece..hope there will be option to get these as accessories later on









images credit j*rg









image credit adam23


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mine should be here next week! Can't wait!


----------



## Stanic

here is a short video of the Kinu M68, cleaning and retention after cleaning and after filling of the gaps:


----------



## Dantaito

After watching the video and counting are we looking at a grind time of 30 secs for 18g of beans? I have a Hario Slim and I seem to be grinding for at leat 4-5 mins!


----------



## Dylan

Dantaito said:


> After watching the video and counting are we looking at a grind time of 30 secs for 18g of beans? I have a Hario Slim and I seem to be grinding for at leat 4-5 mins!


The Hario Slim is barely acceptable for espresso - it does a decent enough job grinding for drip or french press but the burrs just dont pull the beans in effectively when set to grind particularly fine.

Any of the 'better' hand grinders like the MBK Feldgrind or doubtless the hand grinder from Kinu do a much better job but are still fairly slow. As soon as you are talking about burrs 4-5 times the size however like on the m68 grinding is going to be much, much faster.

The Kinu is geared I believe to make grinding easier but slower - other hand espresso grinders like the OE Pharos or Mahlgut Grist grind roughly 1g per full turn, so take 18-20 turns to grind a shot of espresso.


----------



## Dantaito

Thanks Dylan.


----------



## Stanic

Dantaito said:


> After watching the video and counting are we looking at a grind time of 30 secs for 18g of beans? I have a Hario Slim and I seem to be grinding for at leat 4-5 mins!


The Kinu M68 in one test took 24 seconds to grind 14 grams of city roast at espresso setting 0.95.

The latest version has a lighter gear so probably takes a bit longer.


----------



## Dylan

When it comes to hand grinders with big burrs, being geared and taking a bit longer is a positive thing. Grinders like the Pharos or Mahlgut Grist are a real struggle to grind light roasts with. So much so that if you are in to light roasts they are best avoided entirely unless you are able to bolt them to a surface (Neither are sold new now in any case)

I haven't actually seen any videos or comments on trying to grind light roasts with the Kinu - it would be interesting to see how it fared and how easy it is to control.


----------



## Stanic

Dylan said:


> I haven't actually seen any videos or comments on trying to grind light roasts with the Kinu - it would be interesting to see how it fared and how easy it is to control.


I used a rather light roast (roasted specifically for filter) in





. I prefer to use the cheap camp to hold the grinder down, it is not essential of course. Grinding is a little bit harder but easily manageable.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I also got a Kinu M68. It's the latest iteration and I like it a lot. Takes me around 30s to grind 18g of a medium/dark roast. I only had the grinder for a couple of weeks.

For you to have an idea, my 10 year old son is capable of grinding the coffee for me. It's a breeze.


----------



## thesmileyone

How much does M68 cost?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

thesmileyone said:


> How much does M68 cost?


Not sure, but its something like 700 EUR.


----------



## Stanic

In the range of from ~600 second hand to 750 new


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Kinu M68 stripped and cleaned, showing "retention" under 0.2g.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Very interesting observation with my Kinu M68, which I've been using for the past 3 months or so.

I noticed that, when making my morning coffee, the first shot always ran comparatively slower (10 seconds slower) than my second shot done 10 minutes afterwards. I thought it must be the fact that, in the evening, I was grinding decaf, which requires a finer grind, and, when returning to the setting for normal coffee, the grinder had to adjust itself or something (I know, it does sound pretty crazy for a grinder like the Kind). Even without grinding decaf the previously night and changing the setting, the issue still occurred.

So, recently, I kept going through my routine, and I manage to isolate the cause. The Kinu is put away when not in use, so, in the morning, I bring it to the counter next to the machine, boil the kettle, grind for the first shot (americano on my flask to take to work), brew it, purge the steam wand, prepare my americano. Then I go on about my second shot, which is a latte. The fact that the Kinu was right next to my machine made the difference. I know put it not so close to the machine & not so close to the kettle, and both shots are identical in terms of timing / brew ratio.

Happy days!


----------



## Dylan

I was going to guess humidity after the first half of your post, can change the grind quite significantly.


----------



## u2jewel

Very interesting.

So thermal expansion of grinding/mechanical parts is responsible for making your shot faster...

You hear baristas making adjustments as the Cafe gets busier and grinder runs hotter.. In their case, is it the same? (grinds get coarser? ). Do all grinders behave the same, i.e. When warmer, it gets coarser? Or is it layout /spec dependant?

Just curious, but not curious enough to run 1kg of beans through my grinder just to find out..


----------



## Dylan

u2jewel said:


> Very interesting.
> 
> So thermal expansion of grinding/mechanical parts is responsible for making your shot faster...
> 
> You hear baristas making adjustments as the Cafe gets busier and grinder runs hotter.. In their case, is it the same? (grinds get coarser? ). Do all grinders behave the same, i.e. When warmer, it gets coarser? Or is it layout /spec dependant?
> 
> Just curious, but not curious enough to run 1kg of beans through my grinder just to find out..


I dont think it's thermal expansion, I think its moisture in the air produced by the kettle of coffee machine.

Machines in coffee shops get a lot hotter, friction is a bitch, and I think the grind needs tightening as this happens.


----------



## u2jewel

Dylan said:


> I dont think it's thermal expansion, I think its moisture in the air produced by the kettle of coffee machine.
> 
> Machines in coffee shops get a lot hotter, friction is a bitch, and I think the grind needs tightening as this happens.


That's right.. Now I remember. It needs tightening as it gets hotter.

When I do back to back grinds on my porlex mini, the grinding chamber gets surprisingly hot! Probably combo of heat from my gripping hand and burr friction.

I remember on an Aussie or U.S. forum (can't remember which) people talking about affect of humidity on grinds and pull time. In England rarely does it get that humid, compared to certain parts of their countries. I cannot remember what the consensus they reached was with regard to humidity..


----------



## MWJB

Heat in the grinding chamber is enough to make shots run faster.


----------



## Dylan

MWJB said:


> Heat in the grinding chamber is enough to make shots run faster.


Indeed, but is 10 mins in the vicinity of the kettle/machine enough to change the heat of the grind chamber enough to cause this? My guess would be no - but it is just a guess.


----------



## MWJB

Dylan said:


> Indeed, but is 10 mins in the vicinity of the kettle/machine enough to change the heat of the grind chamber enough to cause this? My guess would be no - but it is just a guess.


Agreed, I meant in relation to @u2jewel 's comment about grinders getting hot during use throughout the day.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

A bit more feedback on the M68: I find that one increment on the adjustment dial equates to around 4 seconds in shot timing. For instance, for example:

- Using a VST 18g;

- Dosing 18.5g;

- Brew ratio of 1:2

- On setting X, I end up with a 34s shot;

- If I increment or decrement by 1 step, I end up with a 38s or or a 30s shot.

@Stanic, do you experience the same?


----------



## Stanic

When I used it with miss Silvia and the 18g VST basket, it was basically the same. With Portaspresso, the situation is a bit different as now I always do pre-infusion and I've found that the system is, to a certain point, not so sensitive to grind adjustment compared to dosing or pressure profile applied, but I do go finer (0.9) with decaf and coarser with fresh, dark roasted coffee (0.95), as you can see I move between 0,9 and 0,9 and a half so that is my espresso range on Kinu M68 with the setup I've got - quite smallish


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Stanic said:


> When I used it with miss Silvia and the 18g VST basket, it was basically the same. With Portaspresso, the situation is a bit different as now I always do pre-infusion and I've found that the system is, to a certain point, not so sensitive to grind adjustment compared to dosing or pressure profile applied, but I do go finer (0.9) with decaf and coarser with fresh, dark roasted coffee (0.95), as you can see I move between 0,9 and 0,9 and a half so that is my espresso range on Kinu M68 with the setup I've got - quite smallish


Thanks, that's good to know. Likewise for me: Seems that my decaf and my usual normal beans give the same shot ratio when at setting 4.1 and 5 respectively (or thereabouts, depending on the coffee).


----------



## z4r9

Are M68 owners still happy with their purchase? I'm looking for a grinder for drip (and espresso in the near future). Also, where did you purchase? The Kinu Grinders website only appears to have the M47 listed. Thanks!


----------



## Stanic

Still happy, made a lovely espresso today









I've purchased it second hand at the romanian forum, as the producer was ignoring my emails then. It was also substantially cheaper.


----------



## Batian

Stanic said:


> Still happy, made a lovely espresso today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've purchased it second hand at the romanian forum, as the producer was ignoring my emails then. It was also substantially cheaper.


I have a 'detective' trying to trace where they are made in Romania with the limited clues available on the YouTube videos. Take a careful look and see if anything rings bells.

He reckons if he can find where, he can buy.....well it is Romania!


----------



## Stanic

Batian said:


> I have a 'detective' trying to trace where they are made in Romania with the limited clues available on the YouTube videos. Take a careful look and see if anything rings bells.
> 
> He reckons if he can find where, he can buy.....well it is Romania!


Yeah that was quite funny to read posts on the German forum when they found out that these are made in Romania









I sourced mine on this forum


----------



## z4r9

Stanic said:


> Still happy, made a lovely espresso today


Good to hear! From your sig it appears you have the setup I'd like to build. Do you think the M68 pairs well with the Rossa PG Air? I'd like to be able to make quality espresso at home for myself (one or two a day max) with a small footprint and low maintenance. I don't want to purchase a separate grinder for drip so something that I can reliably switch between different brew methods would be ideal.



Stanic said:


> I've purchased it second hand at the romanian forum, as the producer was ignoring my emails then. It was also substantially cheaper.


That doesn't sound good. If they can't be bothered to answer pre-sales questions it makes me worried about support in the future in case I need replacement parts or repair.


----------



## Stanic

z4r9 said:


> Good to hear! From your sig it appears you have the setup I'd like to build. Do you think the M68 pairs well with the Rossa PG Air? I'd like to be able to make quality espresso at home for myself (one or two a day max) with a small footprint and low maintenance. I don't want to purchase a separate grinder for drip so something that I can reliably switch between different brew methods would be ideal.
> 
> That doesn't sound good. If they can't be bothered to answer pre-sales questions it makes me worried about support in the future in case I need replacement parts or repair.


Their issue is huge demand vs. two people run company as far as I'm aware. But seems like they actually read the forums and some people had good contact with them, email, phone.. Go figure

It is great for the Portaspresso and other methods too but honestly, if you only plan to do 1-2 coffees a day, you can easily manage with something like the M47, Aergrind or the like- such setup would provide mobility and you'll save money. The M68 weights over 5 kilos









I use the Kinu especially when we have guests or I'm in the mood for it, but I also use the Aergrind for espresso regularly - it is excellent too


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Got an M47 being delivered tomorrow. Ordered it Tuesday - impressive - unlike another manual hand grinder business


----------



## Stanic

The Systemic Kid said:


> Got an M47 being delivered tomorrow. Ordered it Tuesday - impressive - unlike another manual hand grinder business


Great!


----------



## z4r9

Stanic said:


> It is great for the Portaspresso and other methods too but honestly, if you only plan to do 1-2 coffees a day, you can easily manage with something like the M47, Aergrind or the like- such setup would provide mobility and you'll save money. The M68 weights over 5 kilos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use the Kinu especially when we have guests or I'm in the mood for it, but I also use the Aergrind for espresso regularly - it is excellent too


In terms of quality in the cup, you'd argue there isn't much difference between the M47, M68 and Aergrind? I'm looking to upgrade from a Eureka Mignon mk2, want a higher quality grind, preferably manual and easy to switch brewing methods. Got my sights set on the Portaspresso for espresso once I'm comfortable with the new grinder. Most of my friends either don't drink coffee or couldn't appreciate a quality cup so not worth the effort and expense of considering the extra capacity for the times I have guests, frankly. I just want a high quality, low maintenance setup for myself.



The Systemic Kid said:


> Got an M47 being delivered tomorrow. Ordered it Tuesday - impressive - unlike another manual hand grinder business


Did you order it directly from Kinu's website? Very interested to hear your impressions, especially versus other grinders. What brew methods will you be using it for?


----------



## Stanic

z4r9 said:


> In terms of quality in the cup, you'd argue there isn't much difference between the M47, M68 and Aergrind? I'm looking to upgrade from a Eureka Mignon mk2, want a higher quality grind, preferably manual and easy to switch brewing methods. Got my sights set on the Portaspresso for espresso once I'm comfortable with the new grinder. Most of my friends either don't drink coffee or couldn't appreciate a quality cup so not worth the effort and expense of considering the extra capacity for the times I have guests, frankly. I just want a high quality, low maintenance setup for myself.


basically, yes..my opinion is that a well aligned grinder with smaller burrs makes better espresso than misaligned with bigger burrs..I had Mignon which I aligned and it made very good espresso, of course you have to combat some clumping and it is slow to grind in comparison but still very capable, I also worked with one in a café side by side with a 64 mm Fiorenzato

surely an EK43 or Mythos with specially designed burrs are on different level but in case they are misaligned, the output particle size will still have huge variability

as for the Kinu vs. Aergrind or Feldgrind, the advantage of Kinu for me is convenience and faster grinding, taste wise there isn't really that much difference to me, but this could be also down to all the faff with pre-infusion, pressure profiling..I don't know

once you figure out your range of settings for different brew methods, any of the grinders mentioned is excellent for switching between methods/beans, virtually no retention, easy to go back to previous setting, easy to clean

be aware that until the burrs are seasoned, there might still be some migration of the settings (with the Aergrind I had to tighten it from 1.6 to 1.5 for example, with light roasts)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

z4r9 said:


> Did you order it directly from Kinu's website? Very interested to hear your impressions, especially versus other grinders. What brew methods will you be using it for?


Yes. Early reported problems regarding difficulty in placing orders seems to have been solved. They are now accepting PayPal which I used. As far as I can tell, only place you can order a Kinu is from their own website - no dealers signed up as yet.

Will be using the M47 for pour over mainly - Chemex, V60. Will give it a go with espresso via a Mypressi Twist to see what it's like at grinding fine.


----------



## z4r9

The Systemic Kid said:


> Got an M47 being delivered tomorrow. Ordered it Tuesday - impressive - unlike another manual hand grinder business





The Systemic Kid said:


> Will be using the M47 for pour over mainly - Chemex, V60. Will give it a go with espresso via a Mypressi Twist to see what it's like at grinding fine.


Did it arrive as expected? Any initial thoughts?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

z4r9 said:


> Did it arrive as expected? Any initial thoughts?


Arrived very quickly. Not had chance to check it out yet.


----------



## z4r9

I pulled the trigger on the M47 and it arrived very quickly (a few days to the UK). First impressions are good. The fit and finish are excellent, manufacturing tolerances are outstanding. No burr rub at 0. It is heavy (~1kg) and requires reasonable effort to grind light beans, which may be concerns if you plan to travel with it or have strength issues. The only area I'm not totally convinced about in the design is the grounds cup which attaches to the underside of the grinder magnetically. When grinding I can hear the cup slighly separating and reattaching with a sort of 'clopping' noise which makes me concerned it might fly off; am I being too vigorous with my technique? Adjustment is a breeze and offers a quick and easy way to reliably switch between brewing methods, which was a key feature in my decision to purchase. So far I have only ground for drip but have been impressed by the consistency and small amount of fines produced. Very happy with the Kinu so far!


----------



## Dylan

One of the main advantages of something held on by magnets is that it has a little 'flex', it can come away from whatever it is contacting but not come off as it is continuously re attracted, you have to really give it a knock so it leaves the area where the magnetism overcomes its own weight to make it come off.

I reckon you would be fine, perhaps some very thin foam tape applied to the mating surfaces would help reduce and 'clopping'


----------



## z4r9

Having had some more time with the grinder I'm happy to say the magnets are a non-issue. I was being a bit too vigorous in my method, although even then, as Dylan pointed out, I don't think the magnets would have allowed the grounds cup to separate from the main grinder body.

Loving the M47 for drip (currently no espresso setup to test with). It's a real joy to use and to look at, IMO. If you need something in this form factor and don't mind the heft definitely consider it as an option!


----------



## ScottAllyn

I've had my Kinu M47 for about 20 days and can safely say that it's my favorite hand grinder. I also own a Lido 2 and a Comandante C40 (that's a coworkers Hario in the photo).










The Kinu is an absolute tank and it chews through beans more easily than the other two. Speed-wise, it's quite a bit faster than the C40 and comparable to the Lido; I haven't actually used the Lido in a while so I can't say for certain whether it's a little faster or a little slower... seems about the same, from what I can recall.

Adjusting the grind is super easy as well as very precise and repeatable. It's not exactly stepless since there are 50 distinct steps per rotation of the adjustment knob. You can probably park it between the steps, but they're so close together, I really don't think you'd ever need to.

Grind retention in the burrs seems next-to-none; the catch-cup actually retains more grounds than the burrs.

I'm currently a bit paranoid about the magnetic cup. I was grinding a pretty large batch of a light roast a couple weeks ago and one of the beans caught between the burrs and caused a bit of a jarring kick-back. The cup was mostly full and the magnets weren't enough to hold it. It dropped straight out the bottom of the grinder, hit the kitchen floor at a slight angle and then cartwheeled up into the air, spewing grounds all over the kitchen floor. The whole thing played out in slow motion and was actually kinda comical, especially when the cat started trying to bury the grounds. It hasn't happened since, but every time that cup rattles during a grind, my heart skips a beat.







I think I'd prefer something other than magnets!

My only other gripe about the grinder also has to do with the catch cup; it's a pretty small gripe, bordering on being nit-picky. The inside bottom of the cup has very sharp corners that like to retain grounds, especially when doing espresso or turkish grinds. Smacking the cup at an angle against the counter a few times will sometimes knock them free, but not always.

*Edit*: This thing has no hint of burr rub at the *0* setting and it's not like they've created a fake *0* to make us think that the burrs are just that well aligned; try to grind some beans between 0 and 0.5 (the first 25 steps) and you'll get next to nothing after several minutes. At 0.6, you'll get a powder so fine, it's almost smoke. My turkish grind, which is fairly comparable to Kurukahveci Mehmet Efendi, is 0.76 on the dial.


----------



## Stanic

Burr size of the M68


----------



## sanadsaad

Just got my Kinu m47 and having a difficult time getting to grips with the ground adjustment. Is there an easy to follow video or pdf anywhere? I've seen people talk about 0.95 or one to two turns. There's nothing in the manual. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## Bolta

Assuming you are grinding for espresso, my setting is 1.6 to 1.7 turns from zero.


----------



## sanadsaad

So when you are saying 1.7 turns, you mean from 0 to 0 then 7, right? For some reason my zero isn't zero. It goes beyond it upto 1. Do I need to calibrate it? Tighten some screw?


----------



## Bolta

By zero I mean the adjustment wheel is fully tightened, mine goes past the zero to the 8. I then turn counterclockwise to the 0 then a full turn to the 0 plus 0.7 additional turns.


----------



## Stanic

Using the bench dogs from Orphan Espresso to secure the M68 to the worktop. These are designed for the Pharos grinder so obviously don't fit perfectly, I've used bits of a thick silicone tamping mat to get them to grip the grinder base. Finally I've got rid of that clamp


----------



## Stanic

Something tells me I'll be taking them to a workshop to be appropriately cut in near future


----------

