# 1st shot runs fast second runs fine



## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

I'm noticing after leaving my cherub to warm up. I get round to grinding and my technique is the same quite consistent. But my 1st shot seems to be running fast sometimes 6-9seconds fast. So after I throw it out and go through the exact same procedure my second shot run bang on.

Does anyone have any idea why this might be as I'm starting to notice my coffee going down quicker then it should be.

Also I have been wondering if I needed to do a cooling flush or not because even after I have left the machine on and idle for a long time up to 2hrs I don't ever seem to get flash boiling water out the group, it always seems like normal heat water. I have seen people talking about over heated water and needing to do a cooling flush on there cherub until the over heated water stops. I did used to experience this on my old gaggia classic but never on my cherub is this something I need to pay more attention to and turn the pstat up slightly although the pressure sits at the low end 0.9 and the high end possibly 1.1 - 1.2 bar

Let me know if there's anymore info you require etc.

Thanks for reading and for any advice/feedback


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Is your grinder run from a hopper and do you purge before that first shot?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Most likely scenario is retention in the grinder, try purging a bit before your first shot.

If not could be that the machine is not fully up to temperature so run some water through the grouphead before making your first one. But as @mctrials23 ; has eluded to its most likely retention.

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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

So I normally keep the plastic been gate closed and only grind what I need and allow everything to fully grind clear. But I will try doing a purge and seeing if there's much of anything being retained.

As for not being up to temperature I'm almost 100% that its most definitely not this.

But thanks for the info I really appreciate this forum it's a wealth of knowledge and full off helpful people. 

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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Sam_d said:


> So I normally keep the plastic been gate closed and only grind what I need and allow everything to fully grind clear. But I will try doing a purge and seeing if there's much of anything being retained.
> 
> As for not being up to temperature I'm almost 100% that its most definitely not this.
> 
> ...


What grinder is it?

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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

KTD said:


> What grinder is it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've got a Macap M4 and a fracino model T (rebadged cunill)

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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Ok they will have a fair amount of retention. Even though it will be overkill I would suggest you grind and throw away a whole dose just so you can be certain first time that it is stale coffee causing it to pour fast. Then work back until you don't notice a change between first and second shot.

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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

Well I have given purging a try and so far I think I can say that this has sorted out the fast 1st shot. 
I thought because I was making sure I was he grinding clear the grinder I would have avoided most of the retention but this seems to have been the novice in me hoping I wouldn't need to purge much if at all but always learning to be done lol
Thanks

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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

KTD said:


> Ok they will have a fair amount of retention. Even though it will be overkill I would suggest you grind and throw away a whole dose just so you can be certain first time that it is stale coffee causing it to pour fast. Then work back until you don't notice a change between first and second shot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry what do you mean to work backwards until there's no noticeable difference between shot 1 and 2? 
Might be me being thick but I don't quite understand what you mean

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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Sorry I just mean if you purge say 15g this time to make sure it was definitely that, next time try 10g, then 5g until you notice it coming through quicker that way you can purge the absolute minimum each morning to make sure you're not wasting too much coffee.


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

Yeh I get you food idea I wouldn't really of thought about doing that. Thanks for helping out mate

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