# Push a like



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Many thanks @coffeechap

Really surprised by the weight of this thing.

Will be trying it later when I get home


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## MSM (Mar 12, 2015)

Looks really good!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Looks good, is it Chinese or another brand?


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Think it's a Chinese one.

Really good weight to it. Wasn't expecting it to be like that.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Looks like it'll do a good job

do you know the exact diameter of the tamper ?

does it have a grub screw to hold it in position once you have set the depth ?

Can you say how much it was ?


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Will check the diameter tonight and also doesn't need a grub screw as you set the depth with the bottom black bit then screw the top down to tighten it up.










Excuse the dirt as working on site now and just took it out to photograph.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It's 58.5, it's 500 ish grams, they do a decent job although i prefer a more tradition esq tamper so sold it to Jason


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Jason1wood said:


> Will check the diameter tonight and also doesn't need a grub screw as you set the depth with the bottom black bit then screw the top down to tighten it up.


I like the look of that locking mechanism more than the grub screw.

Are you prohibited from mentioning the price of these


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I bought direct from coffeechap was his so you'll have to ask him haha


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> It's 58.5, it's 500 ish grams, they do a decent job although i prefer a more tradition esq tamper so sold it to Jason


Yeah won't know how it'll feel in the hand once I'm using it. At least it'll give a nice even Tamp.

Will update this later this evening


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

More of a Mahlgut-a-like i guess with that locking mech and weight. But i guess you call the Mahlgut a push-a-like too!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I like the look of that locking mechanism more than the grub screw.
> 
> Are you prohibited from mentioning the price of these


They come in around £35 but all depends on how many you order and the exchange rate at the time I guess


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> It's 58.5, it's 500 ish grams, they do a decent job





coffeechap said:


> They come in around £35 but all depends on how many you order and the exchange rate at the time I guess


Is that 58.5 a good fit for a VST basket ?

Appreciate the openness about the price


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Is that 58.5 a good fit for a VST basket ?
> 
> Appreciate the openness about the price


Just tried it in my VST ridged basket and doesn't fit, fits the IMS ones though.

Don't have a ridgeless VST.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I've just ordered a few from China - both push tamper copies and the OCD distribution tool copy - and will probably have a few left to sell on here.

Exchange rate has taken quite a hit, and it depends on whether I get stung for VAT/duty on the shipment as well - but I'm hoping that the OCD tool will probably be going at around £40 + UK shipping and the push tamper about £35 + UK shipping. They're over 500g each, so shipping (both from China and within the UK) isn't particularly cheap.

PM me if you're interested in either and I'll update you when I have any, hopefully in the next week or two, and can be more specific on price, spec, colours, etc.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Jason1wood said:


> Just tried it in my VST ridged basket and doesn't fit, fits the IMS ones though.
> 
> Don't have a ridgeless VST.


OH NO ! what a PITA @Mrboots2u


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Going to order a few ridgeless ones. See how I get one with those


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Jason1wood said:


> Going to order a few ridgeless ones. See how I get one with those


Just FYI, I use ridgeless VSTs and have just measured my Mahlgut Palm (which fits the VST almost perfectly) at 58.55mm


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

Mine did fit my VST ridgeless. (Very snugly)


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

the tolerances here are a bit tight.

0.05 of a mm. Thats minuscule, and just the other side of that it wont fit









the basket might not be exactly cylindrical after a while of use either.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Should these copies be sold openly like this on the forum? Mods?


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Heard differing reports to different vsts, some fit, some don't. Just think that the basket holes have been precision made but the diameter seems to differ from basket to basket


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

Aye. Presuming there's the possibility of it stretching the basket over time too.


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## UncleJake (Mar 20, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Should these copies be sold openly like this on the forum? Mods?


Are they illegal copies?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Should these copies be sold openly like this on the forum? Mods?


 @Glenn I don't thing Glenn had a problem with this


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

These items can be obtained easily from a growing number of sources on the web.

As always its a case of buyer beware.

Any item that is not original should be identified as a 'likeness to' and not passed off as the original product.

In most cases the replica items will not have the finesse of the originals and are often adapted for use in local markets.

They may not last as long and there is often no buyer recourse.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

dfk41 said:


> Should these copies be sold openly like this on the forum? Mods?


That reminds me, did you ever sell your Mahlgut Push (or Palm or whatever it's called) on here David - or is it still available?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Nope, it is sitting gathering dust!


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

I'm not a lawyer, well not yet, but if anyone is a lawyer could they comment on the legality of selling an obvious copy of a device which has patents pending? Obviously once patents are in place copying is illegal but does having patents pending afford any protection to the supposed original designer? I'm just curious as I can see the logic to both possibilities in this situation.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Watch what happens with the 'new' Mahlgut Buzzer tamper and Mahlgut Dozer distribution device and you'll probably get your answer...


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

In theory, patent pending gives similar levels of protection to the patent (awarded) though I'm assuming any actual judgement would have to wait until the patent was actually awarded (as it may not be - sufficiently novel or new or whatever)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MrShades said:


> In theory, patent pending gives similar levels of protection to the patent (awarded) though I'm assuming any actual judgement would have to wait until the patent was actually awarded (as it may not be - sufficiently novel or new or whatever)


The Chinese product I have is not the same base defo as an OCD. There are examples of that base of the OCD design prior to the OCD - these may not be copyrighted tho


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Agreed - is four large wedges sufficiently different to three smaller wedges?

Is the push tamper sufficiently different in concept to The Great Leveller and a button tamper?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MrShades said:


> Agreed - is four large wedges sufficiently different to three smaller wedges?
> 
> Is the push tamper sufficiently different in concept to The Great Leveller and a button tamper?


What is the name of that depth adjustable, button tamper that existed before the Push again...? It's clearly different to the great leveller.

Without seeing the patent applications it's just speculation as to what the new/novel aspect might be.

Protection apart, it's not exactly gentlemanly to blatantly rip stuff off. Conversations about these products usually follow a pattern of, "Looks nice, but I bet it makes no difference & I'm not paying that for it....What, you say you know of a cheap knock-off? I'll take 3!" ;-)


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Have a read : https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/docservicepdf_pct/id00000032836237/PDOC/WO2016046207.pdf

It could be argued that the adjustment mech on the Mahlgut is simpler, easier and better than the Push - hence introducing sufficient novelty in the overall design. The Chinese have copied the Mahlgut design significantly more than the Push design.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

But the design & function of the tool is the essentially the same & new/novel. There's nothing to stop people contacting Clockwork & enquiring about a licensing deal...or innovating something new themselves.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

ONA coffee distribution tool does not have any patent, pending or otherwise so nothing stopping someone from completely lifting the design. I'm no going to comment on the PUSH vs the Chinese copies until I see them both. I expect my PUSH next week and will see how alike things are then.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Forgive me if I'm wrong here but I used to watch a lot of Dragons Den...

Isn't a patent 'application/pending' worth diddly squat? Unless it's granted they might not be considered to have a unique enough product to protect.

Ans patents are by-the-by when you have been copied by the Chinese anyway, unless you are a mega corp there is no way you will have any chance of stopping the sales.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

For the Chinese stuff it would probably be extremely difficult to pinpoint the exact manufacturer. Stuff passes through so many hands before it gets to a UK retailer that you may as well be playing pin the tail on the donkey. But the patent holder can certainly pursue retailers. Especially if they continue to sell once they know the goods are shady.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Realistically no one is ever going to be prosecuted for patent infringements on these devices. The market isn't big enough and the issues are too finely balanced. If it's something like a Workmate, which was a completely new concept, then maybe but these devices are really just developments of others.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Mr Shades better watch out then


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob666 said:


> Realistically no one is ever going to be prosecuted for patent infringements on these devices. The market isn't big enough and the issues are too finely balanced. If it's something like a Workmate, which was a completely new concept, then maybe but these devices are really just developments of others.


Patents cover developments to existing products, e.g. cross ply tyres & radial tyres.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I didn't say that patents didn't or couldn't apply to developments just that, in this case, the costs involved in pursuing such an action and the uncertainty of success make it unlikely to happen.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

The first shipment of the real deal PUSH tanpers from Clockwork Espresso happens on Monday.

Was speaking with Pete and he has the family helping to package the tampers. Apparently it was faults in the first shipment of packaging which caused the shipment date from July 4th to July 18th. He did tell me that there will be a surprise in the box of the first editions.

Personally I can't wait to compare the two in the flesh or more accurately in the steel/aluminium


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