# seeking a silicon 8mm Group gasket



## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

when i bought my Classic - i replaced the group gasket with a *72x56x8.5mm*

it's VERY hard rubber and the PF handle only just locks in at 7o'clock

I've just ordered a replacement - same size - but made of a ''softer EPDM compound'

and another - same size - a blue Cafelat made of 'silicon'

all in an attempt to ''bed'' the PF more

...........................................................................

I also found ones at 8mm which I may try too, but...

has anybody found/link to the 8.0mm size in silicon..??.......thanks


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

The blue Cafelat ones are the nicest. I use one in my Classic. I don't think they do an 8mm.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Google is your friend

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/cafelat-silicone-e61-group-head-gasket-8mm.html

Well if it's the right one!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Are you sure it will fit a classic Yes Row? Should do in theory but classic isn't e61 of course.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

timmyjj21 said:


> The* blue *Cafelat ones are the nicest. I use one in my Classic. I don't think they do an 8mm.


thanks -- ordered -- will try before buying an 8mm....


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Yes Row said:


> Google is your friend
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/cafelat-silicone-e61-group-head-gasket-8mm.html [RED]
> 
> Well if it's the right one!


always Google first...









i sent email to Cafelat - who replied..............

On 23/11/2015, 19:45, john wrote:

sent a message about Cafelat Coffee Machine Commercial Group Seal *8.5mm* *BLUE* - Gaggia Classic #131658127752

Yes they fit, we fit them to all the gaggia classics that come in for service / descale.

The E61 reference is for people who own a commercial or semi commercial coffee machine with the E61 head such as fiorenzato, faema .........

so BLUE ordered...


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

timmyjj21 said:


> The blue Cafelat ones are the nicest. I use one in my Classic. I don't think they do an 8mm.


blue 8.5mm Cafelet received and installed

looks quality - but PF still just locks at 7pm

so will try a black rubber 8mm


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

That's weird. What's the rim of your basket like? The Cafelat group seals have been perfect when I've used them on different machines.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

timmyjj21 said:


> That's weird. What's the rim of your basket like? ....................


new item


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Just get the official Gaggia seal and be done with it


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Yes get the OEM Gaggia gasket


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Incase you cant find the link I posted for the genuine gaggia seal before

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaggia-NG01-001-8mm-Rubber-Seal-Gasket-/252056990000?hash=item3aafc47130:g:MsUAAOSw0JpV4FSK


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Just get the official Gaggia seal and be done with it


true - and my final choice

but - i saw a silicon one at 8.5 and wondered if there was an 8mm available

Looks not - so a Gaggia 8mm IS NOW ORDERED.....................


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Incase you cant find the link I posted for the genuine gaggia seal before
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaggia-NG01-001-8mm-Rubber-Seal-Gasket-/252056990000?hash=item3aafc47130:g:MsUAAOSw0JpV4FSK


ordered and arrived today

the previous blue Cafelat is marked 'Cafelat' and '8.5'

these marks are to face upwards towards the group

also the upper edge has a 45deg bevel

the 'genuine' from eBay has..........

NO markings

NO size

NO bevelled edge

and is 8.5mm

now - my calipers aint the best but measureing the 2 side-by-side should eliminated calibration errors

can you see/feel 0.5mm when they are laid edge-to-edge.....?..........cos I canna....









  

it will be RETURNED asap

EDIT

DAMN................ i left +ve feedback so unable to return


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

I have a sneaking suspicion that the normal gasket is 8.5mm...


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

timmyjj21 said:


> I have a sneaking suspicion that the normal gasket is 8.5mm...


i think you are correct

*part #21 NG01/001 GUARNIZIONE SOTTOCOPPA (8,5)*

eBay advert says

''..Gaggia NG01/001 *8mm* Rubber Seal Gasket - - GENUINE GAGGIA PART. BEWARE OF FAKES..''

then send me 8.5...









I've already given away 2 x black 8.5mm.....and now a 3rd..!

I'll just use the *blue Cafelat 8.5mm* - seems the best so far.

PS - now fitted the brass dispersion plate - with an IMS screen

water stream not the 'best'


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Incase you cant find the link I posted for the genuine gaggia seal before...............


JR - hi................thanks for the info......and you too @timmyjj21

just so there's no misunderstanding....









i recently posted a 'rant' about 'advice feedback'...it was nothing to do with your advice

but rather about 76 posts 2 weeks ago - then silence from the OP a week ago despite being onsite....









then i thought ''why bother' and deleted the thread................


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

yardbent said:


> now fitted the brass dispersion plate - with an IMS screen
> 
> water stream not the 'best'


Sorry to read the 8.5 mm seal was infact an 8mm, very disappointing.

Whats not so good about the water stream now that you have both the brass plate fitted along with the IMS shower screen?

Im assuming you thought it was OK with just the shower screen added and it is the brass dispersion plate you are not so impressed by


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Sorry to read the 8.5 mm seal was infact an 8mm, very disappointing.
> 
> Whats not so good about the water stream now that you have both the brass plate fitted along with the IMS shower screen?
> 
> Im assuming you thought it was OK with just the shower screen added and it is the brass dispersion plate you are not so impressed by


no - wanted an 8mm - got another 8.5......now in 'Pay-it-forward'.......









videos i see of the IMS screen show beads of water all over the surface






which is what i acheived before the brass dispersion plate

now all i get is 3 or 4 streams

sorry - no iphone thingy camera - luddite..









'considering' drilling out the 4 brass holes to same diam as larger alloy original to reduce (maybe) the initial pressure jet through the holes

the water in the basket will still be at 9BAR


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Whats not so good about the water stream now that you have both the brass plate fitted along with the IMS shower screen?...............


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

Yeah, I have a similar opinion. The screen still has streams instead of drips on my Classic. I feel that the water volume/output is higher than all the YouTube videos of higher end machines?

The brass dispersion plate does have smaller outlet holes, and I think it may cause jetting through the shower screen, depending on how the screen is put on, eg if there is a screen hole cluster right under one of the dispersion plate outlets. I have considered drilling in the brass dispersion plate too...but just haven't had the guts to do it yet!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I dont have a brass dispersion plate, but if i did i think i would be more inclined to drill a series of extra small holes dotted around the plate rather than bore out the four holes until they are larger.My thinking behind this is that it must surely aid better dispersion?

The water does come out of only 1 single hole before the dispersion plate divides it into 4 separate streams IIRC.

I would try to increase the area the holes occupy to that of the alloy one. Not sure if i can explain it well enough, but if you think the alloy one has 92% solid area and 8% holes I would try to replicate that.

I think a 3mm drill bit is what I would use.

but i take no responsibility if you do decide to go with my suggestion as it is unfounded. There must be 4 holes for a reason


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Whats not so good about the water stream now that you have both the brass plate fitted along with the IMS shower screen?..............





timmyjj21 said:


> .... The screen still has streams instead of drips on my Classic. ......


'morning - *maybe solved* ...points to consider.!

A.. the screens are different

- the Gaggia has a deeper convex profile and is fairly rigid

- the IMS is flatter and quite flexible

B.. the face of the BRASS dispersion plate is different

- the threaded hole for the small fixing screw is countersunk

- IMO -

the Gaggia screen sits on its plate with a (relatively) large space between them

this allows a volume of water to fill the gap before squeezing through the tiny holes = multiple droplets

the IMS plate - being very flexible - can be deformed by the fixing screw being* tight*

this effect is INCREASED cos the IMS screw hole shoulder ( tech term) can be squeezed into the countersunk plate

this combination compresses the already shallow convex profile

IMO the gap between IMS screen and brass plate is thus drastically reduced - hence less volume of water above the screen before droplets form

so I ONLY tightened the fixing screw 'just' enough to nip the IMS screen - it ain't going nowhere.!

SORTED....lotsa beads formed before water discharges.................









all done at 3AM - so maybe rubbish....


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)




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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

the 4 holes are quite a bit smaller.

The drill kit would be out in my house,,id buzz another 4 3mm holes equally spaced inbetween the existing holes around the edge.

But making sure I didnt put one directly beneath the outlet hole in the group


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

@yardbent. Nice piece of 3am brilliance! I tighten my shower screen screw all the way, and I agree your theory looks solid. Will give it a go! Small holes and tight screen may be the issue here.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

im giving this too much consideration now.

what are the 4 dimples there for on the alloy one. Do they help create a vortex of water like the dimples on a golf ball do air ?

They cant be accidental, or just a side product of the manufacturing procedure surely ?


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> ................. or just a side product of the manufacturing procedure............... surely ?


I think so

Shirley of Scotland


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## MooMaa (Jul 29, 2013)

I have found,as also mentioned by @timmyjj21 that by just rotating the IMS plate 1mm at a time until the four holes in the dispersion plate do not line up with a hole cluster on the shower screen, I have eliminated the four gushing holes in my puck, and I now have perfectly flat bed.

However, at the same time as doing this, I also started using an aluminium weight in my grinder, so I don't know if that also had an effect?


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

My jet holes are back after cleaning the shower screen. I didn't align the shower screen like I did last time when putting it back. I believe it makes a difference!


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

So having a close look at the underside of my IMS screen, I can see 4 polished areas that match the jets from the brass dispersion plate, the surrounding hole clusters are also clean compared to the rest if the screen.

I think the brass dispersion plate needs modification. The existing holes also appear to be closer to the outer edge, so drilling them out may make it worse, as the water won't get into the centre very well.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

timmyjj21 said:


> ................, I can see 4 polished areas that match the jets from the brass dispersion plate, the surrounding hole clusters are also clean compared to the rest if the screen...................


did a flush/clean yesterday and found exactly the same pattern on the screen as above

how often do you clean the screen - seems a PITA to upend the machine just to position the screen holes away from the dispersion plate outlets

OK - @Jumbo Ratty ..... who will be the first to take a drill to their £19 brass plate.......









i beleive brass should be drilled at a slow speed..? - handdrill..?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

If i was to do the drilling I would use the shower screen as a template , first offering it up to the brass plate so the holes dont fall directly beneath the holes in the brass plate then mark the brass plate and get busy with the drill.

I would also try to make a mark on the shower screen so that it was at 6 o'clock to the machine to aid positioning of it when you take it off in the future.

id use a braddle \ pointed object and hammer a small dip so the drill bit didnt skim across the surface and start with a small drill bit, and go bigger incrementally until i was happy with the hole ratio.

Id use my cordless drill at medium speed,, but depends how sharp your drill bits are.


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

The problem is that any extra holes in the dispersion plate will be large enough to overlap a shower screen hole cluster, even the small holes currently present are too big. I was having issues even with the shower screen in the ideal spot, with solid metal underneath.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

timmyjj21 said:


> The problem is that any extra holes in the dispersion plate will be large enough to overlap a shower screen hole cluster, ........


CATCH 22 problem......

well before I drill out a perfectly good brass plate - I'm going to have a week with the original shower screen

wonder if I'll taste a difference...


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I reckon with a 3mm drill bit it wont coincide with the holes.

Id do them to fall inside a cluster of 4 holes, preferably inbetween the first and second circumference of holes going outwards from the center


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

So for better or worse...I drilled it.

I still kept the outer holes smaller than the aluminium version, as they are close to the edge, but added 2 new inner ones. The inner ones I made the same size, but then half drilled through the exit side so the outlet is larger for better dispersion (Maybe). I didn't calculate surface area of holes or anything fancy, but felt jetting would still be an issue with the 4 existing holes.

I'll start a new thread once I've given it a few days testing.


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## MooMaa (Jul 29, 2013)

Looking forward to hearing about the

results.


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## hippy_dude (Sep 22, 2015)

Any further results to this thread? was really hoping to hear something had worked.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Cafelat do an 8mm E61 seal in red.


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

All my dozen Gaggia Classic refurbs have had an 8.5 blue cafelat seal put in! I've never tried an 8mm...


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