# Clever Dripper - solution for stalled drawdowns



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

One of the things that has put me off the Clever is the way drawdown can stall.

James Hoffman demonstrates here a useful way of avoiding this by putting in all the water first and then adding and stirring the coffee. Will be giving the Clever a go and see how it goes. James credits the hack coming from Workshop Coffee.


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> One of the things that has put me off the Clever is the way drawdown can stall.
> James Hoffman demonstrates here a useful way of avoiding this by putting in all the water first and then adding and stirring the coffee. Will be giving the Clever a go and see how it goes. James credits the hack coming from Workshop Coffee.


Been doing it like that for quite a while now and I prefer it by far. It makes timings far more consistent.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Also been doing it this way for years, saw it on the Demitasse youtube brew guide from over 6 years ago.

Not that slow draw downs bother me, I expect immersions to take longer than drip & am more concerned with flavour than time trials


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

Just wondering. Technically it's similar to AP, right? Immersion then filtering, albeit with some marginal pressure when using AP.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zeak said:


> Just wondering. Technically it's similar to AP, right? Immersion then filtering, albeit with some marginal pressure when using AP.


 Yes, exactly. A little better filtration than AP.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I like James Hoffman, although in the video clip he says that he doesn't believe that leaving the CCD to brew for longer improves the result. I've had some great 35-40 min steeps from the ccd.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## mcrmfc (Sep 17, 2016)

I have been making 3 clever's a day, 5 days a week for some years....

Have only just tried this - wow it literally takes a minute out.

First try - is a bit more diluted but possibly more clarity - interesting to now tweak some other params.


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

mcrmfc said:


> I have been making 3 clever's a day, 5 days a week for some years....
> Have only just tried this - wow it literally takes a minute out.
> First try - is a bit more diluted but possibly more clarity - interesting to now tweak some other params.


Do you add the grinds in one hit?

I sprinkle the grinds in 4-5 layers gently sinking/stirring each layer. It takes around 30-40 seconds to add the grinds using this method. I figure you'll get better extraction from all the grinds than adding them in one go and risking some grinds getting to the bottom without much if any real contact with the water.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Jason11 said:


> I sprinkle the grinds in 4-5 layers gently sinking/stirring each layer. It takes around 30-40 seconds to add the grinds using this method. I figure you'll get better extraction from all the grinds than adding them in one go and risking some grinds getting to the bottom without much if any real contact with the water.


 Try adding all the dose in one go as Hoffman does and use the back of a spoon to make sure all grinds are saturated with no clumps.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

> On 21/12/2020 at 17:05, MWJB said:
> 
> A coarse grind won't extract in a Clever, however, I am toying with the idea of filter grind, updose & very quick steep to see if I can get a quick (fill add water & coffee, wait 30s, sink crust & drain), simple tasting but enjoyable brew, but not tried yet.


 Crankhouse, Yenni Esperanza Bermudez, Finca El Paraiso thermal shock Castillo
20g ground at 29 on Wilfa flat, 225g water in first (was aiming 220g), add coffee start timer, wet the coffee. At 0:45 stir surface to sink crust, 1:00 place on cup. Today's draw down was 37s (though, other than speed, I attribute nothing to draw down in terms of brew quality). Very tasty, short steep brew. Low extraction (1.55%TDS) but tasty nevertheless.


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## iwobobul (Dec 6, 2020)

I have just recently purchased the Clever and have been enjoying it quite some. I found that on my grinder (delonghi dedica) I have to grind much finer then I do for a v60, is that expected for immersion brews?

For the V60 I have to use setting 11 usually (from total 18) while for the Clever I need to go to 7, which is quite significantly finer. I did two side-by-sides recently (one with ethiopia, one with kenya) and had the cups switched and did the blind testing. I did not prefer either, both were great, but there was this quality to the V60 cup that I am struggling to put into words. It's like some additional complexity was added to the flavor, sort of acidity, but not really (I am planning to take a pallet training course at my local coffee center to be able to understand things like this). I think this might be what people refer to as texture? Because the clever was certainly a 'cleaner' cup in this regard.

I have gotten clever recently at the same time as I got a pouring kettle, and find myself too lazy to brew v60s, now that Clever takes su mych less effort. It is less fun though


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

iwobobul said:


> I have just recently purchased the Clever and have been enjoying it quite some. I found that on my grinder (delonghi dedica) I have to grind much finer then I do for a v60, is that expected for immersion brews?


 Yes, it is expected, if you are looking for similar results from the same coffee. Immersion (declining heat) is much slower to wash out the solubles, so you have to grind finer than V60 &/or steep the Clever longer. It's easier to hit higher extraction with the V60, but also easier to flush silt into the cup.

Time doesn't brew coffee, the amount of water you flush through the coffee does. A v60 gets fresh, clean water hitting the bed throughout the pour, starts out strong & gets weaker towards the end. The Clever coffee just sits in the same water and gradually raises the concentration of (pretty much) all the water.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

This may be the issue I'm having with the clever which I'm not enjoying anywhere near as much as the V60. I'd been using a similar grind to the v60 but maybe finer is the way to go.

Today I tried steeping for 20 minutes and it was very flat, didn't seem to improve much.

I personally don't like the water first method as I find it lacks body.

I'm currently using a similar ratio to the v60 as well. 14g water, 210g water. Maybe I need more coffee to?

The coffee I'm using in it is the same as the v60, half Brazilian half Costa Rican.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The coffee you use matters least in terms of the method. It matters a lot for taste, but less for the mechanics.

There shouldn't be a big difference in water first/water 2nd in body. The finer you grind the more mouthfeel you get, but this can flatten acidity & reduce clarity.

For a long steep (20min would be minimum, you'll need to go bigger in brew to steep significantly longer), your grind should be at the coarser end of espresso, way too fine to make a V60. So I'd guess that you are brewing too coarse and your extractions are on the low side of normal. For example, I make V60s with my Feldgrind at 2 turns plus 2 to 2 turns plus 6. For long Clever steep I'm around 1 turn plus 10 (3/4 of V60 from zero).

There are 2 options to move forward:

#1 Bigger, finer brews as just mentioned...25-35min steep & preheat cup. High extraction, limiting factor is fineness of grind making for silty cups. Balanced with highest clarity, but tricky if you lose concentration & it cools too much. I prefer to pour 2/3 water, add coffee & use remaining water to combine the coffee into the slurry.

#2 Stick at 210g water use 19g of coffee at V60 grind, or a little coarser. Water in first, wet coffee at surface. 0:45 gently sink anything that floats, draw down at 1:00. This aims for a very low, but still tasty extraction. Only downside is 50% more coffee for a fixed amount of brew water. No risk of cold cups.

Middling extractions are flat, with more bitterness, generic.

In both cases I'd stick with water in 1st , if your kettle holds a small amount and can boil 214g of cold water at minimum, weigh the water into the kettle so you're not dawdling with the pour whilst the water cools. Don't overstir & be mindful of jiggling & clunking the brewer on the cup/server at end of brew. Over-extraction is not the biggest danger, silty cups is.

Here's a video for method #2 - video would look the same for method #1 just different coffee weight, covered during steep, finer grind and another 30min run time


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Thanks Mark, 
Tried a few things this morning and definite improvement. Bumped the coffee to 16g and knocked the fineness down to somewhere between espresso and V60. 
So on the JX my espresso range is 
1 full turn plus 3-5
V60 is 
2full turns plus 3-5

Clever I tried just 2 full turns.

Tasted much better!


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## Soniclife (Mar 6, 2018)

MWJB said:


> For a long steep (20min would be minimum, you'll need to go bigger in brew to steep significantly longer), your grind should be at the coarser end of espresso, way too fine to make a V60. So I'd guess that you are brewing too coarse and your extractions are on the low side of normal. For example, I make V60s with my Feldgrind at 2 turns plus 2 to 2 turns plus 6. For long Clever steep I'm around 1 turn plus 10 (3/4 of V60 from zero).
> 
> There are 2 options to move forward:
> 
> #1 Bigger, finer brews as just mentioned...25-35min steep & preheat cup. High extraction, limiting factor is fineness of grind making for silty cups. Balanced with highest clarity, but tricky if you lose concentration & it cools too much. I prefer to pour 2/3 water, add coffee & use remaining water to combine the coffee into the slurry.


 I've just tried this for the first time, I was interested because the occasional time I've effectively done this by accident has not resulted in the bitter mess I expected. I'm not 100% sold on the result, I think I ground too fine, will tweak and try again later, but it does have a very complex taste, well worth more experimentation.

Is there any mileage in using something like a double walled cafetiere for the steep, and then pouring through a normal filter cone? It should hold the temperature much better, and will work better than trying to rig up something to insulate the odd shape of the clever.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Soniclife said:


> I've just tried this for the first time, I was interested because the occasional time I've effectively done this by accident has not resulted in the bitter mess I expected. I'm not 100% sold on the result, I think I ground too fine, will tweak and try again later, but it does have a very complex taste, well worth more experimentation.
> 
> Is there any mileage in using something like a double walled cafetiere for the steep, and then pouring through a normal filter cone? It should hold the temperature much better, and will work better than trying to rig up something to insulate the odd shape of the clever.


 Why do you think you ground too fine?

No, I think it best to just make a cafetiere. If you use Hoffmann's 'no plunge' technique it should be plenty clean enough to not need paper filtering. An insulated cafetiere allows you to use a fairly coarse grind (med-coarse V60 grind) and step longer (60min+) to keep the extraction up. Bear in mind that when you use a paper filter to 'polish' an immersion, the filter doesn't work so well because the coffee bed itself works as part of the filter in a typical drip/Clever brew. Plus the paper filter will clog and it can take 10min or more to get the beverage through (tried this many times years ago and gave up on it).


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

When away, rely on V60 which gives good results. At the last minute, also chucked in the Clever Dripper as well. Never really cracked using the Clever Dripper for short pour overs so it tends to sit at the back of the cupboard, unloved and neglected.

Just finished a long brew (35mins) 32grms Kenyan to 500grms water which produced the best pour over I've had out of my travel kit to date. Half an hour after drinking the coffee, can still taste bright lemony acidity. Use the water in first technique which provides a really quick drawdown.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Thanks to Mark @MWJB, the Clever is my favourite for brews, although we have an Indian filter and also an AP.

Paper filter, SwissGold, 225g water first : 20g of espresso fine grind, quick stir, brew for 30 mins, get the black on a pre-heated cup and enjoy.

It never missed a beat!


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