# Levers like Conicals?



## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

I've heard it said a few times that lever machines are complemented particularly well by conical grinders.

Why is this?

Why does the specific use of a lever machine make a difference to the 'flat vs conical' debate, compared with using a pump machine?

Is it the resultant pour characteristics? Does the declining pressure profile swing it in favor of a conical's grind type? Or, is it simply down to taste preference?

Comments from L1 owners are particularly welcome!


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Not for me, didn't enjoy the hg1 with the L1. Flats all the way


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Not so much to do with the machine being a lever of not. Conical vs flat is more to do with bean roast preference with conical working better with medium plus roasts and flats with lighter roast profiles.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I would say that its personal preference

I'm more than happy with my pairing of Mythos One and L1


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I concur with Patrick if you want the best out of lighter roasts I would lean towards a flat burr grinder, comics work really well with darker roasts,


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I concur with Patrick if you want the best out of lighter roasts I would lean towards a flat burr grinder, comics work really well with darker roasts,


especially the Beano









that probably explains why I like my flat burrs as I'm more medium to light roasts


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## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

Thanks for your inputs my learned lever friends.

Sounds like the consensus isn't much changed by the specific use of levers i.e. flat burrs for lighter roasts seems a reasonably well accepted recommendation.

Reading previous threads, I thought that there just might be something to do with a lever's pour that might change that general conclusion. But, maybe not it seems....

I like lighter roasts, so perhaps I need to stop lusting after that E10 in the For Sale section! Lol.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

There's an EK43 in the for sale section - 98mm flat burrs.


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## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

The Systemic Kid said:


> There's an EK43 in the for sale section


Thank you. I'd spotted that.

However, part of me is interested in a conical grinder simply because I have a flat burr grinder at the moment (Olympus 75E) , and I'd interested to get a feel for the difference it made.

Also, I had a quick play with an E10 at Foundry Coffee a while ago, and I thought it was awesome. I think Lee might have been going through a conical phase, because I remember him saying how "its hard to pull a bad shot with one". Which sounds like a definite plus!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Even harder on the EK. The margin for error (i.e shot time) on the EK if your prep is good is huge.

But thats the caveat... good prep


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

E10'is a stonkingly great grinder


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## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

gman147 said:


> The margin for error (i.e shot time) on the EK if your prep is good is huge.


That's interesting. I'd always thought that the EK would be finicky as hell. I've never used an EK, so I guess I'm influenced by the whole Perger + nutation malarkey, just to try and control the shot speed. I thought: I don't like the look of that; it seems really hit or miss!!


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## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

Thecatlinux said:


> E10'is a stonkingly great grinder


Yes! Now that's what I wanted to hear!!









(Confirmation bias is so seductive! LOL)<confirmation bias="" is="" so="" seductive.="" lol=""></confirmation>


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

R120 works fine with both light and darker roasts with the L II. If I recall correctly Lee brought a conic to the Rave forum and the output to me was very nice just not sure it was markedly any better or any different than the R120 on the Conti or L I-P with the beans being used on the day (rocko mountain and a Nicaraguan from foundry?)

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Split Shot said:


> That's interesting. I'd always thought that the EK would be finicky as hell. I've never used an EK, so I guess I'm influenced by the whole Perger + nutation malarkey, just to try and control the shot speed. I thought: I don't like the look of that; it seems really hit or miss!!


 @cambosheff may be able to offer up a comment as having gone from an EK to a R120 recently

John


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## cambosheff (Jan 1, 2016)

I'd have to echo what John's mentioned. Due to the recent Black Friday sales I've been a wash with beans from both ends of the spectrum and all between and the R120/L1-P has handle them all in its stride. It's possible it was down to my technique/ability level, but I found the faff in prep and more importantly shot repeat-ability issues I had with the EK just aren't there on the R120, its grind, level, tamp. I also (and I can only attest to this on two lots of beans I had at the time) couldn't taste any remarkable difference that the EK had to the R120. Again this may have been down to me not pushing on extractions with the EK and being a coffee nub, but there wasn't always the room to grind finer as you were at times at the zero point already.

Was the EK good? When prep was spot on, when I'd messed about with restricting the flow on the machine and if the wind was blowing in the right direction, yes. Is the R120 good? 9/10 with little effort.

*Please note this does not mean I wont list the R120 in the next 10 minutes if something shiney catches my eye


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## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

@cambosheff

Great post. Thank you.


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## Split Shot (Sep 24, 2016)

fluffles said:


> Not for me, didn't enjoy the hg1 with the L1. Flats all the way


What didn't you like about the HG1, if I can ask?

What kind of shot were you aiming to pull that the HG1 didn't deliver for you?


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Split Shot said:


> What didn't you like about the HG1, if I can ask?
> 
> What kind of shot were you aiming to pull that the HG1 didn't deliver for you?


I appeared to get a lot of channelling despite trying all the distribution techniques under the sun. Good shots just didn't taste that good on the lighter roasts that I prefer.

Basically, if I got a good shot it felt like it was in spite of the grinder rather than because of it.

Seem to be plenty of happy owners though!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

hg1 is not as good as a decent motorised conic, they have all kinds of channelling issues that the big motorised conics just don't have


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

I have an E10 and previously K10 and always use lighter roast beans, never had any problem with getting lovely tasting shots. Saying that I've never done a side by side test with a high end flat burr, my reference point is my old SJ


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