# New (2nd hand) Classic owner - initial queries



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

A couple of weeks ago my Krups Novo 2300 died on me. I know its not the machine of choice, but when I got it 18 years ago I was very happy with it as a huge step up from just having a cafetiere and who fanatasied about being able to have a tasty espresso at home!

After a very short period of research, a 2nd hand Gaggic Classic seemed a decent bet, and when one turned up on Ebay in my locality and including a MM grinder too I was keen to buy and now have it sitting in my kitchen. I've been using it for a week or so and (for me) am perfectly happy with what I'm getting out of it at the moment, though I will admit I'm just relying on pre-ground Lavazza stuff at the moment for convenience. I'm hopeful that I can get the MM to provide me with some passable fresh grinds, though I am well aware of its limitations and have relatively little cash-appetite for spending any more money on coffee at the moment! But I do have some queries in the meanwhile.

The model I have is an August 2006 one, "made in Italy" on the label and quoted as 1300W. I've honestly no idea of how / if it's been serviced over the years, but it's lived in a soft water area.

Cleaning materials - I've seen videos with PulyCaff online, I presume there's unlikely to be anything in my kitchen already that could replace the branded cleaning materials?

Backflushing - there was no backflushing disc with the machine, are the silicone inserts that you can pick up from Ebay broadly as effective as the full on backflushing metal disk? They are a lot cheaper...

Tamper - the plastic one that comes with the machine is a few MM short on the diameter, I presume the more expensive ones fit the PF basket accurately?

Volume of grinds to use - I'm mostly using the double basket, but I've found if I fill that right up to the top and then tamp down I sometimes struggle to get the PF into the machine, and can see the screw head imprinted on the grinds. I'm guessing that implies I'm using too much or not tamping hard enough? Also it comes with a tapered single basket, but I'm conscious that apparently there are different types around. How would I go about identifying the basket that I've got? It seems a looser fit than the double (it has a tendency to come out of the PF when I'm emptying the puck) and I struggle even more to get what I would expect to be a sensible amount of grinds into that one and still have it fit into the machine.

Temp lights - without getting too technical about temp surfing and other stuff that I've read a little about, am I right in thinking that providing the machine has had a decent warm up period, the light on the switch which starts to pull the espresso isn't a binary "do use" or "do not use"? On the Krups that I'm used to (which I suspect had a very small boiler, if it had one at all) the instructions were to only pull the espresso when the light was on. So it doesn't matter hugely whether the light is on or off?

I'm sure I will have missed some questions here, hopefully you can help me with some useful answers! I have been trawling through the forum a little, but if I'm missed an obvious place that answers all these, please feel free to point me in the right direction - I won't be offended!!


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Oops, just realised this may well be in completely the wrong place - if mods want to move it to the Gaggia specific forum, I think that would be helpful? Thanks!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I think this is likely the best start for you: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22879&p=279071#post279071


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The above is much more in depth, but as a quick answer to your questions:

- You need coffee specific cleaning chemicals, puly caff is fine - it is more economical to buy a big pot of Cafitza however.

- The backflushing discs are fine, they only need to provide some backpressure to get the cleaning solution into the group, which they do.

- The plastic tamper is a piece of junk. Ask on the wanted forum for a tamper, many of the members here may well have old ones lying around which which will be cheap for you.

-The double basket is probably 18g as a guide, however there is a 'coin test' for headroom in the basket. Place a penny or similar on the dry puck, lock it in and remove it. There should be barely any indentation from the penny if its pressed into the puck you have too much coffee in there - you also need scales to make good coffee that isn't guess work. You dont need expensive ones, there are a fair few threads here about the best cheap Amazon scales.

- If I remember correctly the light means 'element on/heating' temp surfing is basically waiting for the light to go off, counting to 'X' and then hitting go - this gives you a broadly similar starting point each time. Long story short, when the light has just turned on the boiler is probably to cold, when it has just turned off it is probably too hot.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Much appreciated Dylan, thanks!

Just curious, what is it about the plastic one which is "junk"? Is it that it doesn't fit, or is it that you just can't get enough pressure etc.

Thanks for the tip about the coin. Can't quite see me going down the scales route at the moment, but you never know. Perhaps I need to develop my sensitivity for what tastes good / better / worse first of all.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It's too small so doesn't apply pressure across the surface evenly, difficult to tamp flat, curved edges so pressure concentrated on the center, not properly flat due to being plastic.

I actually hadn't read that you were using preground. The penny trick won't really work properly with pre ground as you also have to be able to adjust grind fineness to allow adequate back pressure and shot timing.

I understand being on a budget, we were all there once. However without a grinder it's very difficult to use classic espresso machine as without the ability to create back pressure the water will not spend adequate time extracting the coffee as it passes through. Indeed, without a grinder scales will not bring much benefit.

At the low end of capable grinders you will be looking at around £100 for a second hand Sage Smart grinder pro or the like.

The hard advice to hear is that without the right equipment to make espresso you are better off getting a hand grinder and an Aeropress and making brewed coffee. It will be much nicer than an espresso made with pre ground coffee.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Dylan said:


> The above is much more in depth, but as a quick answer to your questions:
> 
> - You need coffee specific cleaning chemicals, puly caff is fine - it is more economical to buy a big pot of Cafitza however.
> 
> ...


If it's the original gaggia double basket it'll only be 14g. Make sure you have multiple holes on the underside of the basket. If it only has one in the middle it's the pressurised one (to be used with a little rubber widget) for preground coffee. Standard 58mm VST & IMS baskets (amoungst others) will fit but you'll definately need a proper tamper for them.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

It's the "proper" mesh double basket. Agree about the comments ref grinder, and I do have an MM grinder now too but for the time being I've just stocked up on a few different flavours of lavazza to tide me over. Though there is a bag of beans I do have to hand and will be experimenting next weekend. As much as I love espresso, I can't handle it in the evenings *and* manage to get any sleep, and in the mornings at the moment I'll be waking the household if I use the MM first thing. But I will be experimenting!!

(Again, I know the MM isn't a great grinder, but on a limited experience last weekend I did have nice tasting output, and that's what counts! I don't trust an aeropress to make the coffee sufficiently bitter for me, from the reviews I've read it sounds like I'd lose the very essence of the coffee that I actually like. But happy to learn / play. I've got a stove-top too which I enjoy, but that's different).


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Probably a bit of a off topic but when I started this journey I read all threads in the Gaggia forum.

It took me several days though.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MM grinder?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Dylan said:


> MM grinder?


I think MM denotes Mazzer Mini in this instance.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Ah, well the Mini is a more than capable grinder.

If you have that grinder then buying pre-ground makes no sense at all, even if you want to avoid waking up your other half you would be better off grinding the day/night before than using pre-ground.

You should also buy scales, if you have a grinder then there is no such thing as 'not being at that point yet' - buy some fresh whole beans, buy some scales, learn how to make espresso by time and weight. Its not complicated and it will make owning your machine worth it.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Sadly, no it doesn't. It's the Gaggia MM grinder - http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/grinders/gaggia_mm/yoconman

Better than nothing, but not a patch on the stuff you guys and gals have!


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

*Taken from the link that you posted - *



*
*




 *Negative Product Points*




 Can not grind for espresso. The finest setting is just too coarse and shots are pulled though a Gaggia Classic at Starbucks speeds. There also isn't a wide range of settings and it's fairly loud.




Looks as though I may be no use with the classic then. You may get away with using it with a pressurised basket though, just don't tamp too hard


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

I don't know much of the MM but it may be possible to convert to stepless similar to the MDF. It'll certainly be possible to set i2r with the burrs closer to touching than standard.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Yep, already had it apart with a view to getting a better range of finer grinds. Apart from the review I linked to, I've read elsewhere that satisfactory results can be obtained with a little free modifying. The grinder came "free" with the Classic so I'm give it a go.

I've got a cheap hand grinder but a) it's too much effort and b) doesn't grind finely.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Make sure you have a look at the burrs in the grinder, I have seen an MDF with burrs smoother than a baby's bum.


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## Hexagram (Jan 3, 2018)

I have just taken the leap and bought a Gaggia Classic as well. I'm also relatively new when it comes to pulling my own shots of espresso, but I was already brewing my own coffee using either v60 or aeropress so I do happen to have a half decent manual grinder, namely a Feldgrind, which is doing a decent job for me at the moment as far as I can tell - I'm sure there will be plenty willing to shoot me down on that one!

I definitely would recommend doing away with the pre ground stuff and taking the time to grind fresh beans, the end result is so much more rewarding. I've found it hasn't taken me long at all to get to a point where I am pulling tasty shots with consistency. If you want, I have a tamper which I am more than happy to let you have for free if you PM your address.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Didn't get down to the burrs when I took bits apart the other day, but I do mean to have a look there at some point. Need to get through this pre-ground Lavazza stuff first though ;-)


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Hexagram said:


> I have just taken the leap and bought a Gaggia Classic as well. I'm also relatively new when it comes to pulling my own shots of espresso, but I was already brewing my own coffee using either v60 or aeropress so I do happen to have a half decent manual grinder, namely a Feldgrind, which is doing a decent job for me at the moment as far as I can tell - I'm sure there will be plenty willing to shoot me down on that one!
> 
> I definitely would recommend doing away with the pre ground stuff and taking the time to grind fresh beans, the end result is so much more rewarding. I've found it hasn't taken me long at all to get to a point where I am pulling tasty shots with consistency. If you want, I have a tamper which I am more than happy to let you have for free if you PM your address.


Nothing wong with a feld for 'spro if you can handle the exercise required.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

btw, how do I know if the tapered basket is a pressurised one or not?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

larkim said:


> btw, how do I know if the tapered basket is a pressurised one or not?


Look on the underside. Presurised gaggia baskets have a single hole in the centre (hence the need for the rubber widget to stop the jet spurting out the spout) whereas unpresurised baskets have all the holes visible.

EDIT: A pic is worth a thousand words. The pressurised basket is on the right.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

You're right to post a picture as the pressurised basket there has lots of holes, not just one (at least, when someone says "single hole in the centre" I was picturing something very different!)

So that is pressurised because it has a flat bottom but with far fewer holes in it. Am I right in that the tapered basket which probably has a similar number of holes to the one you've shown as presurised (broadly like this one https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Gaggia-7g-Standard-Single-Filter-Basket---NF08004/m-1983.aspx ) is therefore an unpressurised single basket?

Still keen to learn more!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

larkim said:


> Am I right in that the tapered basket which probably has a similar number of holes to the one you've shown as presurised (broadly like this one https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Gaggia-7g-Standard-Single-Filter-Basket---NF08004/m-1983.aspx ) is therefore an unpressurised single basket?


Yes it's description is correct - Gaggia Italia, non pressurised, Standard Single Filter Basket 7g

Beware if you want to use a single that very occasionally people report getting on well with them but the general advice on here is that it's much harder to work with a single basket, so it makes getting a good shot more difficult. I haven't ever really bothered trying a single myself because I prefer a larger amount of espresso.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Indeed, I like more espresso too - a single rarely feels enough! I'll take a snap tonight of the alternative basket that I've got just to confirm what type it is, even if I don't actually end up using it.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

larkim said:


> You're right to post a picture as the pressurised basket there has lots of holes, not just one (at least, when someone says "single hole in the centre" I was picturing something very different!)
> 
> So that is pressurised because it has a flat bottom but with far fewer holes in it. Am I right in that the tapered basket which probably has a similar number of holes to the one you've shown as presurised (broadly like this one https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Gaggia-7g-Standard-Single-Filter-Basket---NF08004/m-1983.aspx ) is therefore an unpressurised single basket?
> 
> Still keen to learn more!


There's actually only a single hole but there's a grid in the casting around it so it's difficult to photo. While they're double baskets (the unpressurised one is actually a IMS one but it's similar enough to a gaggia one) in the photo, the single pressurised has the same centre.

Unpressurised singles are available but they're notoriously difficult to tamp due to their shape. I use a LM strada one coupled with a 41mm tamper on the odd occasion I pour a single.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

If you hold the pressurised up to the light then you can see that it's all an illusion


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## ChiangMaiKevin (Dec 18, 2017)




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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Aha!!


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

I must have the non-pressurised baskets, model is from 2006, were they supplied then?

Anyway, some acceptable results with the MM grinder and supermarket quality beans, enough to keep me happy so far. No precision being applied by me just yet though. Did give it a good old backflush in Puly Caff and soaked the PF / shower head etc so they are nice and sparkly (they weren't too bad in the first place). I need to sort a knockbox and find out how to resolve the static from the MM grinder which propels grounds all over the place at the moment, so I think SWMBO is getting a little frustrated with my mess!

One hardware thing I've noticed is that I'm missing a bolt under the boiler. There are four allen key bolts surrounding the group head (?), one is missing. Anyone know the spec of the bolt so that I can get one from ebay (i.e. pitch, depth etc etc)?


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