# new fracino drip tray



## shrink

As some of you may know, i had some woes with the drip tray re-design being quite unsuitable.

The response from Fracino is that they are re-cutting a new design for the metal cover on the drip tray, as its misaligned. This will feature on all new machines.

They will send me one directly to fix the issue.

I'll give them this, their customer service is top notch.


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## fatboyslim

Glad to hear it shrink. That was one of the key factors for me when choosing the Cherub.

UK based company with excellent customer service and cheap spare parts.

How are the espressos coming along?


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## shrink

averagely lol... i think its hard to know really, i dont taste espresso quite so much as i drink latte's etc. I try to taste shots before using them, but to me most espresso's taste dark and bitter regardless. I got a few (using jailbreak) that just tastes massively acidic, like i'd sucked on a lemon. It was pleasant after the first few mouthfulls, and i guess is perhaps what people criticize about hasbean blends.

When i was first starting i got very sour shots, then i tightened up the grind and got a few bitter shots, then backed off and think i got something that works. It made a nice tasting latte for sure.

the other issue is that my milk frothing isnt quite there, so i'm ending up with quite watery latte's lol.

Practice makes perfect huh! and at least i'm pretty confident now that its me, and not the machine


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## tribs

That's great news. Top marks, Fracino


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## shrink

yep... it wont massively fix the fact that the drip tray is a bit too short, but it'll at least cause less mess!

overall for the cash paid, im happy with it. Its a good solid machine. There will always be quibbles i guess, but unless i want to spend £1500+ on something like a rocket giotto premium plus, I think i should keep my mouth shut









the cherub is a good looking bargain for what it is.


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## 4085

shrink, we always used to practice on a pitcher of cold water with a single drop of washing up liquid in. You will find it mimics milk in almost every single way, and is cheaper!


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## shrink

yeah i tried that.. and i can get nice wet paint looking stuff with the water and squeezy.... but when it comes to milk, it doesnt end up being quite the same!!

i end up with too much foam on top, and too much wateriness below haha. I guess i need to work on my incorporation. I may go to the two hole tip, as theres just too much going on, too quickly, to get good microfoam on the 4 hole tip.

Its brutally fast, which is awesome. But it doesnt make for nice silky milk


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## seeq

What milk are you using? On orders from SWMBO we use skimmed and I have the same issue, very easy to make foam, but very hard to combine it. When I do use full fat it's so much easier.


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## shrink

i use semi skimmed... could never go all the way to the hell that is skimmed water (i mean milk)

if i wanted slightly white looking liquid, i could always spit in my coffee, i think it would have more flavour than skimmed milk hehe


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## Southpaw

Great news that they're sorting. It amazes me just how many products seems to slip through the shall we use it before we sell it test. Somebody making a coffee would have noticed the problems this causes.


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## coffeebean

You will find the 2 hole tip a lot more forgiving!!



shrink said:


> yeah i tried that.. and i can get nice wet paint looking stuff with the water and squeezy.... but when it comes to milk, it doesnt end up being quite the same!!
> 
> i end up with too much foam on top, and too much wateriness below haha. I guess i need to work on my incorporation. I may go to the two hole tip, as theres just too much going on, too quickly, to get good microfoam on the 4 hole tip.
> 
> Its brutally fast, which is awesome. But it doesnt make for nice silky milk


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## shrink

you would have thought that they'd notice it before they shipped the machines? but sometimes deadlines must be met i guess

if the new drip tray cover is cut a bit more usefully, then it'll be just fine









the cherub has otherwise been spot on.

there is one oddity though (or rather simply a design exentricity) if the boiler gets low on water, you get an alert to say so. But because the HX is fed directly from the tank, and not from the boiler, you can run out of brew water, before the boiler warns you.

i thought i was choking my machine, because nothing was coming out. Turns out that there was no water in the tank, but the steam boiler was still full!!

just one to watch out for.


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## RoloD

shrink said:


> there is one oddity though (or rather simply a design exentricity) if the boiler gets low on water, you get an alert to say so. But because the HX is fed directly from the tank, and not from the boiler, you can run out of brew water, before the boiler warns you.
> 
> i thought i was choking my machine, because nothing was coming out. Turns out that there was no water in the tank, but the steam boiler was still full!!


 Are you sure that is the case? I thought the Cherub was, strictly speaking, like the Londinium, a thermosiphon rather than an HX design and that the group is fed from the boiler.

Have I got it wrong?


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## sandykt

Shrink, great news on the drip tray.

Get yourself a 2 hole steam tip and that will slow down the milk frothing. I find that Cravendale milk is the best milk for frothing as well.


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## shrink

roloD i'm fairly sure the group is fed from the HX circuit and not the boiler for the steam. I could be wrong however. But as i ran out of water for brewing, but still had water left for steam/water tap, that suggests that brew water is coming directly from the HX.

a thermosyphon can pull water from an HX or a boiler directly, depending on the setup. In something like a rocket R58 or dual boiler duetto, it'll pull directly from the brew boiler. IN my setup, the water from the boiler would be far too hot. The water in a HX machine, will come from the HX


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## Shakey

Customer service like this is good to see. Fracino seem to be listening to customers - pretty rare these days. Well done for chasing it up Shrink.


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## RoloD

shrink said:


> roloD i'm fairly sure the group is fed from the HX circuit and not the boiler for the steam. I could be wrong however. But as i ran out of water for brewing, but still had water left for steam/water tap, that suggests that brew water is coming directly from the HX.


 Yes, that makes sense...

But looking at the Cherub parts diagram it looks remarkably like the Londinium where the thermosiphon runs directly from the boiler to the group and the mass of the group cools the water to brew temperature (the Londinium, being made by Fracino, has some parts in common).

But I could be completely wrong about this. Just curious...


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## jimbow

The thermosyphon on the Cherub is a separate sealed circuit that runs through the boiler, indirectly heating the brew water within the thermosyphon via heat exchange with the hotter water in the boiler. This is however actually really unclear in the exploded parts diagram - the diagram does not show the heat exchanger running through the boiler, just the entry and exit pipes.


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## RoloD

jimbow said:


> The thermosyphon on the Cherub is a separate sealed circuit that runs through the boiler, indirectly heating the brew water within the thermosyphon via heat exchange with the hotter water in the boiler. This is however actually really unclear in the exploded parts diagram - the diagram does not show the heat exchanger running through the boiler, just the entry and exit pipes.


Thanks.

That makes sense now.


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## jimbow

shrink said:


> yeah i tried that.. and i can get nice wet paint looking stuff with the water and squeezy.... but when it comes to milk, it doesnt end up being quite the same!!
> 
> i end up with too much foam on top, and too much wateriness below haha. I guess i need to work on my incorporation. I may go to the two hole tip, as theres just too much going on, too quickly, to get good microfoam on the 4 hole tip.
> 
> Its brutally fast, which is awesome. But it doesnt make for nice silky milk


Try using slightly more milk and chill the milk in the jug before steaming - this will buy a little more time for stretching. Only stretch the milk until the jug no longer feels cool to the touch i.e. as soon as the jug is at body temperature then stop stretching. At this point, lower the tip slightly to texture the milk, incorporating the foam. The actual difference between the two positions is surprisingly little - you only need to lower the tip in the milk by a few mm. I find positioning the tip towards the side of the jug helps here so that the milk swirls in the jug under the power of the steam.


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## Foz

One thing to check if you have the new type of filter and the old Piccino water tank is that the water is taken 1-2 cm above the bottom of the tank, hence the machine runs out of water before the alarm sounds. Fracino are waiting for new tanks that are designed so that the alarm works with the new filters. Perhaps the new Cherubs have the new tank already but I know that my Piccino manufactured late November / early December does not.


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## shrink

The only water alarm I have, is the boiler low water. Not the tank


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## Foz

OK, alarm on the Piccino is for the tank, my mistake.


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## Shakey

This is the view inside the new Cherub tank if it helps.


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## reneb

nice view


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## Shakey

View attachment 1899


This is the view inside the new Cherub tank if it helps.


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## Foz

This is the same as the Piccino tank for which the two metal contacts are the alarm for water level, the alarm does not work as the water never gets this low due to the new filter adapter. Shrink points out that on the Cherub the water alarm is on the boiler.


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