# Murky espresso.. Causes and reasons? Wisdom required.



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Too many variables for me to figure out, so I thought I would throw this out to see if anyone can guess why.

For the last few days, my iced lungo has been a touch on the murky side. Not gritty grinds in the cup, but super fine particles suspension. Cannot figure out why. The drink tastes roughly the same.

I'm not sure if it's confirmation bias, but I think I see more fines in my grind distribution. Could this be the cause? The kind of fine powder which is beyond Turkish.

Can too many fine particles in the grind actually pass through the filter basket, making it murky?

This coincides with maybe when I started single dosing. Or maybe when I switched beans. Or maybe after I cleaned my grinder out. Or maybe when I removed the anti static clump buster.

Not sure what it could be. Any ideas? Can't really taste the difference.. But maybe i can say it's more mocha/chocolaty and less clear, more cloudy...

Not sure if it's because of hopperless operation.. I thought not enough beans weight = coarser grind?

Just opened second bag of different beans, still murky, hence this post.

Double and triple baskets, same results. (ecm)

Nothing else has changed recently apart from above stated factors. Same brew time (25-28 sec) and ratio (2:1) regardless of basket, and no channelling...

I currently have lots of micro-lots (150g each) of different beans in freezer all vac-packed. Can't do hopper for a while...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

This is before you add the ice?

Point of order ratio is coffee to water. So 1:2 I guess in your case.


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

> Can too many fine particles in the grind actually pass through the filter basket, making it murky?.


Yes..

Basket broke or grind a bit courser.

A little bit is acceptable or could even be considered 'normal'... but not enough to be murky



> Could this be the cause? The kind of fine powder which is beyond Turkish.


You may of worked it out, lol


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> This is before you add the ice?
> 
> Point of order ratio is coffee to water. So 1:2 I guess in your case.


No, after the shot is pulled, I pour it into a taller glass with ice, then let that melt over time. Starts as ice espresso, ends up like ice lungo.

Yes, 1 coffee, 2 water


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

DaveP said:


> Yes..
> 
> Basket broke or grind a bit courser.
> 
> ...


Hmm.. Never say never, but these baskets are brand new pretty much, new machine 2 weeks ago 

And, if I grind coarser, I am nudging gusher territory..


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

My habit is to pull a shot, go to the freezer, get some ice, pour it over then go to the balcony with it for a morning smoke. I see sunshine beaming into the glass, and hence noticed the difference the first time


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

> And, if I grind coarser, I am nudging gusher territory..


Then something is amiss

A Turkish grind is to fine, so a tad courser and more weight ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Unfiltered espresso has particles in it, it's normal. You could try a tad coarser, so long as extraction doesn't drop into less tasty area. The only way to reduce the incidence of small particles in your grind is to grind coarser.

If you only noticed it since holding it up to the light, drink it in the shade 

If it tastes OK, you don't have a problem.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

DaveP said:


> Then something is amiss
> 
> A Turkish grind is to fine, so a tad courser and more weight ?


For my naked portafilter, which came with a triple basket, I dose 20g. It requires a bit of careful tapping and redistributing not to spill, then tamp. If I go coarser, I won't be able to fit 20g without having to do it in 2 stages, because it will pile up so high in the basket..

But currently, with its current grinder setting, I get 40g yield in about 25 sec...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

How can you notice Turkish grind size by eye?


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

PPapa said:


> How can you notice Turkish grind size by eye?


By touch ☺

Ok, you got me! I've never been to Turkey, never had Turkish coffee..

But we're talking baby powder fine, and if it's the majority in my grind distribution, I know it would choke my ecm!

(that fine powder like dust you can find on tamping Mats, similar to that)


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Just spent good time reading on foreign forum across the pond. Long story short, it does seem single dosing is the reason according to some who have done extensive comparisons.

I didn't find a specific answer that addresses mine, and even though there are no scientific tests or data to collaborate, the consensus seems to be that grinds distribution does change, even though it might not necessarily affect brew time/yield.

People who have been doing it a lot longer than myself report that you need to tighten the grinder setting to get the same brew time/yield. However no one can definitively say why that is so.

It was an old thread back from 2009 so if anyone can point me in a direction of a more recent (less stale ) reading, I'd appreciate it. @michaelbenis (just in case you are a member here since you are from South UK or under a different alias) you out there?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Enjoy the coffee you are making, if you can't tell the difference in taste then spend your time on something else.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Enjoy the coffee you are making, if you can't tell the difference on taste then spend your time on something else.


Valid point 

I need to find something else to do.. I have too much time on my hands. My wife was so happy when I became a coffee junkie (for her it meant less analysis/criticism/experimentation of our food in the kitchen.. I was driving her mad!)


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