# My first Chemex!



## Outlaw333

Sorry guys, yet another post based on the fact that, Guess what... I'm excited about something!! HaHa, Makes a change!

Anyway, so after being blown away by Daves Wahana Estate Chemex brew at the weekend(this time I actually have others to vouch for me on how good it was!) I haven't been able to get it out of my mind! So naturally I was forced to buy a Chemex which should be arriving tomorrow!

Of course I also have an Übercosy sat on the bar(yet more thanks to Mike and the Übergrannies on that one!) with no pouring kettle to wrap in its warm embrace. Now this is the part that showcases my fickle side, I have been suffering internal turmoil as to whether to get the Buono or the Homeloo, first I was set on the Buono, then the Homeloo, then the Buono again, then the Übercosy arrived and I was set once more on the Homeloo simply to remove any risk of the UC not fitting. Guess what I bought.. Of course the Buono! I have been caressing my Übercosy and mulling it over and I decided that it WILL fit! I also thought the larger capacity will be very usefull for the Chemex

The funny thing is, probably the best cup of brewed coffee I have ever had, Dave brewed in the most unscientific and slightly unusual way! First the Ditting was set to a course French Press grind and then Dave said as he poured over from a large milk pitcher that he couldn't stand the pouring kettle as he liked to more or less chuck it over which his Buono doesn't allow. The most amusing thing was when the Chemex was lifted off, the scales read 666! As said though the resultant brew was fantastic!

I had to share my latest Coffee Excitement anyway! Oh and Gary, have you ordered your Chemex yet?

Ciaobella mozzarellas!


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## Earlepap

The best success I've had with chemex so far has been using this method -






I have a 6-8 cup, and use 500ml of water. Any grind finer than French press seems to leave the water moving too slow, though at the 60g/L ratio I find it too weak so I upped it to 45g for 500ml. I don't have a pouring kettle so I've tried using a normal jug to pour steadily but that usually results in losing a lot of heat. However the method I linked advocates an aggressive, fast pour to agitate the grounds - adhering to the much revered Scott Rao - so using a pouring kettle seems entirely pointless.

How did the Extract guy do it?


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## lookseehear

Dave's Wahana Estate chemex brew was undeniably stunning! The filters are quite thick and he was brewing a litre of coffee at a time which probably accounts for the coarse grind. He used the technique of filling the filter cone up and slowly pouring in the centre keeping the level off the coffee bed right at the rim of the chemex.

It makes you wonder how important the ditting's grind is to how it tastes.


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## Filthy_rich85

Outlaw - Where did you order your chemex from? Somebody (sorry I can't remember who) mentioned an online store which was cheaper than hasbean.... I'm very keen to replace mine (drunken accident left it in pieces on the floor) for the same reason, I was astounded by the quality of Daves brew.


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## RolandG

One of the things I like about chemex is you have several variables to play with - grind, dose, amount of water, how high the water level stays, pour location... Once you get the hang of the impact of these and get a method that works for you, you can alter the water pouring (for example) to accomodate different doses grinds etc. quite easily. As with many things, once you've done it lots of times it can look quite haphazard but still get good results


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## garydyke1

Outlaw333 said:


> Sorry guys, yet another post based on the fact that, Guess what... I'm excited about something!! HaHa, Makes a change!
> 
> Anyway, so after being blown away by Daves Wahana Estate Chemex brew at the weekend(this time I actually have others to vouch for me on how good it was!) I haven't been able to get it out of my mind! So naturally I was forced to buy a Chemex which should be arriving tomorrow!
> 
> Of course I also have an Übercosy sat on the bar(yet more thanks to Mike and the Übergrannies on that one!) with no pouring kettle to wrap in its warm embrace. Now this is the part that showcases my fickle side, I have been suffering internal turmoil as to whether to get the Buono or the Homeloo, first I was set on the Buono, then the Homeloo, then the Buono again, then the Übercosy arrived and I was set once more on the Homeloo simply to remove any risk of the UC not fitting. Guess what I bought.. Of course the Buono! I have been caressing my Übercosy and mulling it over and I decided that it WILL fit! I also thought the larger capacity will be very usefull for the Chemex
> 
> The funny thing is, probably the best cup of brewed coffee I have ever had, Dave brewed in the most unscientific and slightly unusual way! First the Ditting was set to a course French Press grind and then Dave said as he poured over from a large milk pitcher that he couldn't stand the pouring kettle as he liked to more or less chuck it over which his Buono doesn't allow. The most amusing thing was when the Chemex was lifted off, the scales read 666! As said though the resultant brew was fantastic!
> 
> I had to share my latest Coffee Excitement anyway! Oh and Gary, have you ordered your Chemex yet?
> 
> Ciaobella mozzarellas!


I need that link dude, want to order one!

Id forgotten the 666 reading! Devilishly good brew wasnt it.

Brewing on a large scale will maintain higher temperature for longer, allow a courser grind + Ditting grind quality will be far superior to anything a ''Portex'' (sic) can produce........


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## jimbow

I must admit I got my first Chemex at the weekend and have been playing about with it
















I have found the water level particularly interesting. As the filter effectively creates a seal with the glass wall of the brewer, unlike the V60 and other brewers with ridges, the water will not exit the sides of the filter. This creates all sorts of interesting possibilities regarding the water level like the Kalita Wave (which achieves a similar effect with vertical sides). Of course, higher water levels can lead to grounds left high and dry up the sides of the filter unless one stirs the slurry.

So, I am interested, do people keep the water level low by pouring slowly or let the water level rise up and if the later, do you stir?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## MikeHag

I tend to do a pre-wet followed by an initial good coating of the grinds, and then a slow, constant pour in the middle, keeping it low. Usually 4 mins or so.


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## MikeHag

And if you can stand the wanky DJ bits, this vid is ok. http://t.co/fFWYYpUD


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## lookseehear

Scott Rao would have you believe that you have to keep the water level low with drip coffee but I wonder whether that applies more to brew methods like v60 where (as Jimbow said) the water can exit the sides of the filter. Dave's technique was very different from this but the brew was really great. I'm taking my Maestro and chemex back to my parent's house this weekend to have a proper play!


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## Earlepap

MikeHag said:


> And if you can stand the wanky DJ bits, this vid is ok. http://t.co/fFWYYpUD


At what point are you supposed to do the 2x stir with this?


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## Outlaw333

Has anybody used the intelligensia app? I was thinking that might be a good starting place?


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## MikeHag

Earlepap said:


> At what point are you supposed to do the 2x stir with this?


Right at the end, just before the fonal drawdown, to prevent grinds being left high n dry (underextracted according to Rao). I used to do that, and it has merit, but if your grind is right and you dont overfill then there's no need. It can also make it difficult to repeat a particular extraction.


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## JamesG

David Walsh did some interesting research on the effect of stirring on various pour-overs and whether high n dry grinds were actually underextracted: http://theotherblackstuff.ie/thoughts/at-odds-with-unevenness/


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## MikeHag

Interesting read. Never seen that post before. I've done some tests of my own over the months (eg this vid





). Basically stirring does produce a more even extraction, but I found it almost impossible to achieve repeatability if I stirred. One brew would be too weak and the next one too strong. Since reducing my use of stirring I've begun hitting my extraction target much more consistently (after dialing in). And the extraction is also even due to the slurry level being kept low. Pros and cons with all approaches though, as ever.


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## Outlaw333

News in this afternoon.. The Ubercosy fits the Hario kettle!





































Today has been a fun day playing with the Chemex and the Kettle, I am so pleased I took the risk and got the Hario Bouno, its really nice to use and with the Ubercosy i'm barely losing any heat from start to finish of the brew. I have yet to get a perfect brew on the Chemex but i'm getting close and already way better than any brew ive done up 'till this point!

I am currently playing about with times but sticking to a 33.5 gram dose for 500g of water as a starting point, adjusting grind only to alter brew time, the best yet was after 5minutes15 including bloom period. Tomorrow i will pick up where i left off and get that down to 5minutes, If thats still not quite right, i'll start lowering the dose.

I can really see where a refractometer would come into its own here to help achive a ball park figure to then work from and then when the magic recipe it hit upon, to help recreate it!


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## lookseehear

I made a chemex this morning of hasbean oporapa. Took far too long (~6 mins) and tasted pretty bad! Going to keep the grind the same tomorrow and reduce dose and brew weight.


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## Earlepap

The thickness of chemex filter paper requires a pretty coarse grind for a 3-4min extraction.


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## jimbow

JamesG said:


> David Walsh did some interesting research on the effect of stirring on various pour-overs and whether high n dry grinds were actually underextracted: http://theotherblackstuff.ie/thoughts/at-odds-with-unevenness/


That is a very interesting read indeed and I would love to read about further experimentation in this area. The main limitation I see to the experiment in this article is that it conflates too many concerns. For example, the article includes graphs comparing unstirred and stirred but in reality this graph is comparing fast, centre pour without stirring and slow/pulse, distributed pour with stirring. This makes it very difficult to draw conclusions (especially relating to aspects of the brewing process) other than a direct, relative comparison of the two overall techniques.


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## Earlepap

I made a very nice Chemex brew this morning following this guide - http://stumptowncoffee.com/guide/chemex/

As a method it avoids any high and dry grinds but doesn't bother with stirring. I was left with a flat bed and no grinds up the side. Only thing I did different from the guide was give the bloom a bit of a swirl, and just poured straight from a normal kettle.

I used 35g coffee to about 550ml on a pretty coarse grind - slightly smaller particles than this:


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## Outlaw333

I have decided I need a Baratza Vario with the metal brew only burrs! Where do I find a second hand Baratza?


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## garydyke1

Ditting ditting ditting


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## Outlaw333

As much as I would love a Ditting, Mrs Strangebean would banish me if i brought one home!! supposedly the Brew burrs on the Baratza Vario make for a grind as good as a Ditting. While I find that hard to belive and it would never compete on speed I think the Vario would be a good alternative.


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## garydyke1

Outlaw333 said:


> As much as I would love a Ditting, Mrs Strangebean would banish me if i brought one home!! supposedly the Brew burrs on the Baratza Vario make for a grind as good as a Ditting. While I find that hard to belive and it would never compete on speed I think the Vario would be a good alternative.


find out how much the burrs are and let us all know


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## Outlaw333

$60 in America, so around £40 delivered would be my guess


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## Outlaw333

They do look the Shizzle from what I've read though!


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## omega

My Chemex arrived yesterday from Has Bean getting good results already.


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## garydyke1

My brother got me a Chemex 6 cup for crimbo...I cant wait to get cracking. Will need to scale up my brewing work-flow which is giving me pleasure with 8g & 130g water in the v60-01! Will need to play with grind settings.

Thinking of starting with 20g coffee & 333g water


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## lookseehear

Congrats! I love my Chemex - I'd use it every day but I think it's better suited to larger brew volumes (I think mine is 6-8 cup?!) so I don't tend to make less than 500-600ml. For a 600ml brew I use pretty much a French press grind.


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## jimbow

If I remember correctly a 'cup' is around 150ml for a Chemex - the Chemex website says a cup equates to 5 Fl. Oz. By extension, the 3-6 cup Chemex should be good for brewing between 450 and 900ml.


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## tribs

I got the 10 cup and its mahoosive! Even upscaling to 500ml brews it doesn't even look a quarter full.

The quality of the brew is exceptional, though. I don't know whether its the upscale and the resulting coarser grind, the filter papers or the shape of the thing but the brews I've had out of this have been consistently better than other methods. Also, the shape seems to funnel the aromas perfectly. Looks great too. Timeless design.


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## funinacup

Chemex is probably my favourite pourover brew method! Off to make one now...


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## garydyke1

I have to admit the brews from the chemex are outshining the v60 by quite a margin. Much more forgiving and less reliant on technique. aromatics , clean , fruit driven , balanced acidity, perhaps even on sweetness.

500g water and 30g coffee. 3.30 total time with 30 sec bloom. Grind setting 17-19 on the maestro. will go finer and see what 4mins is like.


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## jimbow

I especially agree about the sweetness.

I usually brew 250g water with 15g coffee in a 1-3 cup Chemex with a 30-45 second bloom and between 4 and 5 minutes total time depending upon the coffee.


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## garydyke1

So I just tried 4min total time with 30 sec bloom. Grind setting 15 on the maestro. The smell of the brew was inviting.

Now the brew looked like it had stalled midway through & this is the first time I encountered a touch of bitterness and the balance has shifted to bovrily notes (way way better after cooling actually acidity coming on quite strong) ..perhaps I need to change my technique to stretch out the brew maintaining the much coarser grind setting . alternatively I might be bang on the middle of the ''double hump'' (see http://www.jimseven.com/2010/11/08/the-double-hump/)...if so then actually a degree finer and I should come out the other side.

My technique is :

-preheat homeloo and rinse chemex/filter with 500ml boiling water.

-fresh water in homeloo straight off boil (start pour temp approx 96/97)

-add 30g coffee in uniform pile and make an indent in the middle

-steady pour of 60g water starting in middle working outwards in spiral

-wait 30 seconds (super fresh coffee might need 45-60 seconds)

-pour starting in centre and working outwards, even saturation of grinds achieving quite a low 'tide' midway up the chemex.

-when all saturated keep a slow stead pour in centre maintaining 'tide' level until 350g water added.

-allow water to drain slightly below 'tide' and then add remaining 150g water from the outside inwards ensure all coffee inc 'tide' washed back into slurry

-allow to drain. Finishes with level but quite lumpy bed


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## garydyke1

Some of the best chemex coffee I have tried has been here






Note they use a 'sand' textured grind and complete in sub 3 mins, filling the chemex all the way to the top with the 440ml.

Interesting. I might keep the grind setting at 15 and repeat using their simple approch


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## jimbow

I seem to remember either LookSeeHear or Earlepap describing a pour method for the Chemex that created conditions similar to those achieved during immersion brewing. Essentially they used a fast, filling pour to create a high water level (near the top of the Chemex). Following this approach the grounds were in contact with the same brew water for an extended period of time although due to the weight of the extra water, the draw down happened much faster and the total brew time was shorter. This pour method works with the Chemex because the filter paper creates a seal with the sides of the carafe unlike v60 and other brewers.


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## garydyke1

My pre-folded chemex papers do not seem to create a complete seal around the full 360 degrees, you kind of have to pick a side you want to cling to the wall of the chemex and the other there is slight gap. Maybe I should unfold the pre-fold and try myself


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## tribs

I follow the same method as the quite famous James Hoffman Chemex Video

I too use prefolded and place the 3 fold thick side over the spout. I don't think there is a complete seal, but I'm not concerned about it.

I use 94-5C water and pulse pour in approx 100ml bursts returning the kettle to the hob in between to maintain temp.

After the bloom, I keep the pour quite central almost exactly like in the Hoffman video changing direction with each pulse. I use just under FP grind on the Lido 1+3/4 turns aiming for at least 4 mins excluding the bloom. I find if I stray towards 3:30 then I end up a bit under-extracted but still tasty. I had a brew with 4 week old Jirmiwachu beans the other day that took 4:30 - 5mins excluding bloom and it was absolutely stunning.


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## garydyke1

I just completed a chemex brew using the Square Mile guide & grind setting 15. It finished final drips at 2mins 45 lol

The taste was more akin to my previous pour-style using setting 19. Pretty tasty, although the high and dry grinds & cone shaped bed at the end were telling me it shouldnt have been! I now know finishing with a lumpy flat bed equals over extraction with setting 15 but not so with setting 19.


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## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> The taste was more akin to my previous pour-style using setting 19. Pretty tasty, although the high and dry grinds & cone shaped bed at the end were telling me it shouldnt have been!


I know what you mean. I was thinking the same thing. I seem to recall Mr Hoffman suggesting that a flat bed slows down the pour too much and that leads to over-extraction.


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## jimbow

I seem to recall watching another video online a while back where the presenter argued against pouring towards the edges (especially on the filter paper itself). He asserted that doing so washed the high and dry grounds (and fines that had migrated towards the edges of the cone) back into the centre of the slurry and end up clogging the filter towards the end.


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## Outlaw333

jimbow said:


> I seem to remember either LookSeeHear or Earlepap describing a pour method for the Chemex that created conditions similar to those achieved during immersion brewing. Essentially they used a fast, filling pour to create a high water level (near the top of the Chemex). Following this approach the grounds were in contact with the same brew water for an extended period of time although due to the weight of the extra water, the draw down happened much faster and the total brew time was shorter. This pour method works with the Chemex because the filter paper creates a seal with the sides of the carafe unlike v60 and other brewers.


That is my technique I developed for the brewers cup. I have a couple of youtube videos if you wanted to try it out.


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## Earlepap

Outlaw333 said:


> That is my technique I developed for the brewers cup. I have a couple of youtube videos if you wanted to try it out.


Welcome back. Sounds an interesting chemex technique, upload the vid! Noticed in another thread you missed a brewer's cup spot, bad luck dude. I was thinking about applying myself but dithered for too long - maybe next year.

Back on topic. For fill-and-leave chemex brewing the CCD lid perfectly fits the top to retain some heat while the water's dripping.


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## Outlaw333

Hi Earle!

I think you have seen them, it's just that 'dual stage immersion' technique I use for 750ml brews with a very course grind. I honed it over a year and find it incredibly consistent and really maximises the fruit, acidity and clarity I'm almost obsessively seeking in my coffee. I don't use a lid, only because with such a steady temp from the Ubercosied Buono, the technique calls for almost as course a grind as possible with Burrtha to avoid overextraction.

Yeah I'm bummed out about the Brewers Cup but I'm looking at the positive, it means I can observe this year and hopefully that might better prepare me for next time, I didn't make last years and I do need to check it out in person.


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## jimbow

Sorry Outlaw333, I read about your technique with interest at the time but could not remember who had written it







Sorry to hear about the brewer's cup!

I think there is a dedicated lid for the Chemex which fits some of the larger models. It is supposed to really help conserve heat in the slurry during the draw down.


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## tribs

I've not had time to make a chemex for a few days, but managed to do so today.

Another outstanding Jirmiwachu brew. 5 weeks from roast and it is still awesome. Lost a bit of funk, but still fruity as hell. I'd say it is better now than the first couple weeks from roast.

I screwed it up a bit so not quite as sweet as previous, but so so aromatic. My temp probe had slipped out of the water in the kettle at some point so was a few degrees hotter than planned and the pour was very messy. I need to restrict the flow on the buono somehow.


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## garydyke1

With the initial pour are any of you stirring the grinds with the flow of water ? Ive been playing about with the amount of agitation and anything more than a brief & even covering results in a little initial bitterness. Lots of agitation (or otherwise) i'm always getting a consistant finish time at any one grind setting.


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## tribs

I rinse the high and dry's gently with the bloom water only. Then its straight down the middle with narrow spirals. Which means a lot of the grinds are being infused only. Getting some nice cone shaped beds and these seem to coincide with the better brews. Straying too close to the sides seems to lead to slight over-extraction.


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## garydyke1

My findings too. Its such a forgiving brew method compared to the v60. A bad brew in the v60 is horrid, in the chemex its still fairly nice


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## garydyke1

Just made my best Chemex to date. Sweet, harmonious acidity, lemony fruit...so so moorish!

It finished bang on 3 minutes. Am I bad coffee person with a poor palate, do i like underextraction?


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## fatboyslim

Was that 3 minutes including bloom?

Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD


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## garydyke1

fatboyslim said:


> Was that 3 minutes including bloom?
> 
> Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk HD


Timer started as soon as initial 45g water added


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## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> Just made my best Chemex to date. Sweet, harmonious acidity, lemony fruit...so so moorish!
> 
> It finished bang on 3 minutes. Am I bad coffee person with a poor palate, do i like underextraction?


If it does not taste underextracted, irrespective of % yield, then it's not underextracted...it's just technically underextracted. It's entirely possible for a cup a shade underextracted to taste better than the same cup taken into the technically correct zone...even then you have a 4% margin of yield (20% margin of acceptable range), people are supposed to be able to detect fractions of a percent of yield.

Out of interest, what are the dosing & brew water weights described in the Chemex literature? Most filter cones originating from the far East (if not most brewers, period) weren't made in conjuction with the SCAA/SCAE/NCA objectives and seem designed to produce a strong, underextracted cup. We seem to be "banging square pegs into round holes" to some degree, to get the numbers to add up.

EDIT: Found the answer to my own question - "One rounded tablespoon per 5oz cup", an American tablespoon tends to be smaller than traditional UK, say 10g of grinds (?) per 150ml cup, or 67g/l "cup" ratio, or 59g/l starting brew ratio.


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## Earlepap

I rarely stray from 60g/L with the chemex and am usually happy with the results. Anywhere between three and four minutes seems to be ok brewing with 500ml of water.


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## tribs

I had Has Bean's Yirg Wote Natural this morning in the chemex. To blatantly plagurise Earlepap, it was a "basket of fruit" in a cup with fantastic sweetness. Truly spectacular. When it cooled it was essence of cocoa.

Why can't I make brews like this with any other method?


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## jimbow

I have been drinking this for the last couple of weeks - lovely coffee. Since smashing my Chemex last week I have fallen back to v60 and been getting good results with these beans. More pronounced floral notes and citrus fruit but less sweet and funky than the Chemex brew.


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## Earlepap

Just came across this - http://sprudge.com/video-the-most-practical-chemex-tip-ever.html

The rinsing procedure of the Chemex is my biggest gripe with it - this makes it a lot easier.


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## garydyke1

tribs said:


> I had Has Bean's Yirg Wote Natural this morning in the chemex. To blatantly plagurise Earlepap, it was a "basket of fruit" in a cup with fantastic sweetness. Truly spectacular. When it cooled it was essence of cocoa.


My first brew of it finished on 3mins 10. Not overly sweet but my God the aroma!

Its about as blueberry as you'll find in a coffee, I found as it cooled slightly there was an element of 'rubbing a ripe peaches skin' thing going on. I see what you mean about the cocoa, definately on the exhale and aftertaste its there.

Anyone tried this under 9BAR?


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## bronc

jimbow said:


> I have been drinking this for the last couple of weeks - lovely coffee. Since smashing my Chemex last week I have fallen back to v60 and been getting good results with these beans. More pronounced floral notes and citrus fruit but less sweet and funky than the Chemex brew.


I don't understand how can you be getting different results with the v60 and the Chemex. Isn't it basically the same concept?


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## MWJB

Different filter paper.


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## bronc

Hm, I didn't know that they were used with different paper filters but that might be the reason.


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## jimbow

As MMJB said the filter papers are different with the Chemex papers being considerably thicker and so requiring a coarser grind. Also, the Chemex filter makes direct contact with the wall of the carafe, almost creating a seal, where as the V60 has ridges allowing liquid to exit the sides of the filter. Some people use this fact to create a higher water level in the Chemex filter cone during brewing recreating some of the conditions in immersion brewing.


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## garydyke1

My Chemex brews are now consistantly coming in at 3min-3.30, regardless of coffee used. The grind im using isnt as coarse as others (appear to be using), however the lack of fines from the Maestro is brilliant & is reflected in the relatively quick draw-down. Maybe I can afford to go finer


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## jimbow

Some people like to keep the slurry low in the Chemex (as with the v60). This is the technique advocated by Scott Rao and sparked off a massive debate when he criticised James Hoffman's Chemex technique for leaving grounds high and dry. This pouring technique requires a coarser grind and might explain the differences you are seeing Gary.


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## garydyke1

That was indeed a big debate and I can see the argument on both sides. Id love an extract mojo to measure what I class as a good brew


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## MWJB

I'm not sure that an Extract Mojo would give any meaningful figures in the low water/high & dry debate, assuming a comparable level of extraction, and grind adjustment to suit each method. If you got a 19% extraction in both cases the mojo would just confirm that, not identify what that extraction specifically consisted of.

Rao's method seems driven by evenly extracting all the grinds. A fast fill with fine grinds, that work with the low water method, could lead to greater degree of extraction of the bed & some bypassing around the top of the cone, fine grinds getting water logged & not rising to coat the filter paper evenly. Conversely, the low water method may suffer with a coarser than ideal grind, in that the grounds stay buoyant for longer, not extracting so evenly. The greater surface area of the coarse grounds may influence flavour profile too?


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## garydyke1

I tried 2 clicks finer on the maestro (visibly finer than I have ever seen anyone else do with a chemex) . Brew time was only 10 seconds longer. I focused on as little agitation as possible once the fast fill had occured.

The result was a nice brew, not a vastly different profile to yesterday, perhaps sweeter, rounder, perhaps slightly less aromatic. A nice acidity. No bitterness at all!

Tomorrow, 2 clicks finer!


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## garydyke1

I think I have finally settled on a technique which is repeatable and coincides with some of the better brews I have had from the chemex.

30g coffee

input of 500g of water

1. boil kettle with 600g tap water

2. Add boiled water to pouring kettle

3. boil kettle with 600g blended bottled water

4. whilst boiling add filter to chemex & then rinse filter till chemex full and pouring kettle empty

5. add boiled water immediately to now empty but still hot pouring kettle - wrap ubercosy up tight

6. start grinder whilst emptying chemex of paper-flushing water

7. place empty chemex onto scales, add ground coffee in even mound , tare scales

8. make a divot into the coffee mound

9. add 45g water for bloom

10. start timer

11. after 40 seconds start a heavy and deliberate pour , starting in centre working outwards, stirring grinds evenly

12. the coffee tideline needs to be raised at a rate which means 350g total water added on the 2 min mark

13. slowly add remaining 150g water in and around the centre of the coffee bed but not letting tide mark drop, circa 2min 40 mark.

14. allow to drain, finishing anywhere between 3 min 10 and 3min 30.

15. swirl , admire the aroma and serve after 3-4 mins of cooling


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## tribs

Nice one Gary. will give it a go.


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## garydyke1

I should add that the grind is pretty fine on the maestro, probably medium-drip rather than french press


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## tribs

Tried it with Loayza.

Everything seemed to go great except right at the end, where it didn't drain (fully) until nearly 6mins and a fairly flat bed with a few high and drys. Do you allow the final drips? Even so we'd be looking at 5 mins plus. I probably need to go coarser. I went for dead in the middle of the drip range on the Lido (1 1/8 turns).

It's a nice cup, but everything is a little muted compared to my usual method which is not a lot different, except for a much coarser grind. This method seems better extracted, whereas mine usually tends towards under, but I find I get more of the aromatics and more delicate flavours. The differences could all be down to the grind, however. Perhaps I should try again with my usual grind setting (1 5/8 turns). BTW, I have the 10 cup with the FC-100 filters.


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## garydyke1

Im using the 6 cup & a modified homeloo kettle + its really hard to define grind size.

If done correctly you end up with a perfect cone lining the inside of the filter, so i would say your grind is too fine by quite a degree


----------



## fatboyslim

How did you modify homeloo kettle?


----------



## garydyke1

fatboyslim said:


> How did you modify homeloo kettle?


20mm long piece of aquarium tubing inserted into the base of the spout with needle-nose pliers

reduces the flow rate by about 50%


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> . Do you allow the final drips?


The final drips would be 4 mins absolute max


----------



## tribs

fatboyslim said:


> How did you modify homeloo kettle?


Try my Aeropress filter restrictor, if you have one. Works a charm.


----------



## Pablo

I'm looking to get a 6 cup Chemex when they come back in stock.

Are these FC-100 the filter papers of choice?

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/chemex-coffee-filter-papers-for-6-8-cup-100/p680#tdesc_6

Also are any filters included with the Chemex?


----------



## Sam__G

No filters included with the Chemex but yep, those are the right filters.

Atkinsons in Lancaster appears to have the 6 cup and filters in stock:

http://www.thecoffeehopper.com/product/87/6-cup-chemex.htm

http://www.thecoffeehopper.com/product/89/6-cup-filter-papers-chemex.htm


----------



## Pablo

Excellent! Thanks Sam


----------



## garydyke1

Excitement for the week

Incorporated stiring the bloom for 15 seconds with a wooden paddle and adjusting the grind 2 notches coarser.

Absolutely no change in completion time, but a slightly better cup - for a reason I cant quite put my finger on


----------



## garydyke1

For a while its been bugging me that the lastest pack of prefolded chemex filters dont quite fit perfectly in the 6 cup Chemex . There is always a little gap but seems much worse. Once wetted the papers are hard to adjust as 90% is clinging to the glass.....its the 10% which isnt clinging which bothers me.

I noted a couple of days ago that the tide level of coffee grounds wasnt even round the filter paper and where it had deviated matched the location of the 10%. Repeating today exactly the same thing occured - closer inspection revealed water has been channelling out the paper through this 10% !


----------



## Sam__G

Squares or circles Gary? I've found the same thing with my current squares in the 6 cup...


----------



## garydyke1

Circles. With a bit of refolding I can make a better fit but its a faff


----------



## dsc

Right, I'll bump this, I've noticed the top 10% sticking out as well, haven't really paid too much attention to channelling though.

Must ask this: which method do you normally go for? bloom + fill to the top and leave to drain, or do you simply add water in stages as the thing trickles down?

The last three times in Aroma (Lincoln) I was served a lovely cup of Chemex, probably the best I've had in a long time, but the last cup was rather bad. Not sure what went wrong, but from my experience it doesn't take a lot to wreck a brew.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Wouldn't worry about the percentage of paper not adhering to the glass. What's more important is technique. I make Chemex every morning and measure the TDS - doesn't vary more than 0.05% either side if I keep everything else constant - dose, grind etc so the non-adhering paper isn't causing any problems.

As for method - use the Scott Rao technique - works equally well for V60 and Chemex. Important thing is to make sure all the grinds stay in the brew area and that none get left high and dry so I pour in a circular pattern towards the edge making sure any grinds there get washed into the brew. Rao favours a stir north/south east/west prior to bloom. He also advocates stirring the brew once last kettle water is added to ensure a slightly convex bed - if it comes out too convex, you've stirred too hard! Using this approach will ensure the most efficient extraction.


----------



## dsc

Cheers Patrick, I'm using the ZR with the Chemex, curious if it's better to have a more uniform grind or whether you need some fines to slow things down?

I'll give it a go today with 500ml and 30g of whatever I have lying around (got a box from HB Steve recently, I can pick and choose). Might even make a short vid.

Regards,

T.


----------



## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Wouldn't worry about the percentage of paper not adhering to the glass. What's more important is technique. I make Chemex every morning and measure the TDS - doesn't vary more than 0.05% either side if I keep everything else constant - dose, grind etc so the non-adhering paper isn't causing any problems.
> 
> As for method - use the Scott Rao technique - works equally well for V60 and Chemex. Important thing is to make sure all the grinds stay in the brew area and that none get left high and dry so I pour in a circular pattern towards the edge making sure any grinds there get washed into the brew. Rao favours a stir north/south east/west prior to bloom. He also advocates stirring the brew once last kettle water is added to ensure a slightly convex bed - if it comes out too convex, you've stirred too hard! Using this approach will ensure the most efficient extraction.


Does this require sieving or at least a very course grind. I find the brew time very long if I go for a stir or aim for a flattish bed.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> Does this require sieving or at least a very course grind. I find the brew time very long if I go for a stir or aim for a flattish bed.


With the larger Chemex, brew time can easily exceed 6 minutes which is nothing to worry about. With my previous pour over grinder (Vario with steel burrs), found the optimum grind was pretty coarse (using around 33.5grm dose) and sieving the dose to remove the dust (won't call it fines as the sieve used was a simple kitchen flour sieve). Found this gave good flavour clarity with a TDS of around 1.25% so body wasn't pronounced but, to my taste, not too weak. Tried adding a proportion of the sieved dust up to two grms (keeping the dose weight at 33.5grms) which increased the TDS score along with the body/mouthfeel at the expense of flavour clarity. Now I'm using the EK, I've dropped the dose to 31grms and ground a bit finer taking the brew time up from around 5mins to over six and the TDS score is hitting 1.5% plus which should suggest the delicate flavour clarity is lost....but it isn't. I can only assume the grind is much more consistent which is delivering a much more even extraction. But what do I know


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Cheers Patrick, I'm using the ZR with the Chemex, curious if it's better to have a more uniform grind or whether you need some fines to slow things down?
> 
> I'll give it a go today with 500ml and 30g of whatever I have lying around (got a box from HB Steve recently, I can pick and choose). Might even make a short vid.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Please do, Tom - would really like to see that.


----------



## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> With the larger Chemex, brew time can easily exceed 6 minutes which is nothing to worry about. With my previous pour over grinder (Vario with steel burrs), found the optimum grind was pretty coarse (using around 33.5grm dose) and sieving the dose to remove the dust (won't call it fines as the sieve used was a simple kitchen flour sieve). Found this gave good flavour clarity with a TDS of around 1.25% so body wasn't pronounced but, to my taste, not too weak. Tried adding a proportion of the sieved dust up to two grms (keeping the dose weight at 33.5grms) which increased the TDS score along with the body/mouthfeel at the expense of flavour clarity. Now I'm using the EK, I've dropped the dose to 31grms and ground a bit finer taking the brew time up from around 5mins to over six and the TDS score is hitting 1.5% plus which should suggest the delicate flavour clarity is lost....but it isn't. I can only assume the grind is much more consistent which is delivering a much more even extraction. But what do I know


Thanks. I'll experiment next time I take out the chemex. Just got a Kalita wave so will be playing with that for a while. What tds meter do you use or have you a refractometer?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> Thanks. I'll experiment next time I take out the chemex. Just got a Kalita wave so will be playing with that for a while. What tds meter do you use or have you a refractometer?


It's a VST refractometer. Best tip for getting V60/Chemex brew technique right is to practise using beans that have fruity/citrussy notes. If your brews can pull these out whilst maintaining an acceptable body/mouthfeel level, you're doing OK. So perhaps best to brew coarse being very disciplined with your technique (i.e. not changing anything - pour method, bloom time etc) and then tighten up the grind for subsequent brews if you find the resultant brew too lacking in body.


----------



## Neill

Excellent. Lots of experimenting to do.


----------



## AliC

Apologies for hijacking the thread but I'd appreciate a spot of Chemex advice.

I'd really like to get a Chemex and ideally one big enough to make coffee for six - aiming for a bit of dinner party theatre with the hausgrind. God help me with technique though as I'll probably be quite sloshed by the end of the evening.

But most of the time I'll be brewing coffee for two/three.

So I'm wondering if it's better to get a ten-cupper for the admitted rare occasion when making coffee for lots, and it will look pretty swish, but then only use 40-50% of its capacity the majority of the time. Or would a 6 to 8 cupper cover most of the bases and just have it a lot fuller when feeding the five thousand?

Buying two is not an option, but recognise there is not much of a price difference between the two.

Cheers


----------



## The Systemic Kid

6-8 cup Chemex is good for 500ml brewed coffee - might stretch to 600ml. When feeding the five thousand - just give them less and tell them less is more


----------



## dsc

Got a cup brewed a few minutes ago, not stunning but definitely better than in the past. It's underextracted, TDS measured was 1.10%, so I need to grind finer on this one. Time was 3min, I did the following:

- 500ml brew water, 30g coffee

- water temp 96degC

- bloom with 50ml, wait 30s

- stir slurry to mix everything

- add rest of water pretty quickly to agitate

- at a certain level, slow down to maintain that level, until 500ml was reached on the scales

- stir around the edges

- leave to drain

As it's 500ml, it's plenty to keep me going, so I'll brew another batch tomorros.

Regards,

T.


----------



## dsc

Did another quick test this morning, used Red Brick as I had nothing else laying around and it was too late to start going through the freezer in the morning. Same dose / water ratio, temp was 92degC, same technique. Tightened the grind from 186 to 161, so down by 25, which effectively means having the burrs 0.25mm closer together. Brew time was 3:30min this time, didn't measure TDS as I was rushing, but overall the brew was decent and quite tasty. More tests to be done later today with a fresh batch of something fruity from HB.

It is possible that the water temp is too low, so I might try using water pretty much off the boil to see what difference it makes. Using 92degC means probably brewing at around 80degC for the majority of the brew which is a bit low.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

It's impossible with Chemex to exceed upper temp limit when brewing due to the glass leaching away heat and the large surface area. I use water five secs off boiling for the bloom and keep the kettle on the hob in between top ups. Even then, I'm lucky to hit 90c in the slurry.


----------



## dsc

I know Patrick, even with an insulated FP it's hard to get anything close to 90degC. I'll use off-boil next time to compare.

Regards,

T.


----------



## dsc

Decided to take it further yesterday and went 25 clicks finer, which is another 0.25mm closer on the burrs. Used the same ratio, although this time forgot to mix the slurry when all of the water was added, which caused the grinds to stick to the filter as the water went down. This resulted in a concaved bed of coffee when all the water drained, the whole filter was evenly coated in a 5mm thick layer of coffee grinds:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s152/sh/0aa8f3dd-2316-4948-8f66-cb7a70316666/c36a65838f94b3e3545b4e3a49d215c2

to compare, here's a brew made with stirring the slurry before letting the water drain:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s152/sh/7f2778c5-d6b4-4ddc-be19-9962e26b008d/2e488136665e90a1fe80bc595691242e

As you can see on the first photo, the grind was pretty fine, yet the TDS was only 1.17%, taste wise it was pretty bad, mostly smokey flavours, dark choc, burnt. I did use water which was a minute off-boil.

Will give this a go again, same grind setting, but stir the slurry.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Reason TDS was lowish in first pic Tom, is that there is a high percentage of grinds around the filter which won't have extracted properly due to insufficient contact with the brew water. In your second you've got a perfect draw down convex bed so I would expect extraction yield to be higher than the other pic. Stirring the brew after last drop of water is added is the best way to get a good draw down and flat/convex bed. Stir should be quite gentle or the bed will end up too convex. For 500grms brew water with 29-30grm dose, brew time will be 5mins plus with a brew weight of around 380-390grms.


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> For 500grms brew water with 29-30grm dose, brew time will be 5mins plus with a brew weight of around 380-390grms.


Hi Patrick, are you pulling the filter & grinds at 5:00, or letting the bed drain through?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> Hi Patrick, are you pulling the filter & grinds at 5:00, or letting the bed drain through?


Hi Mark - letting the bed drain through.


----------



## dsc

The Systemic Kid said:


> Reason TDS was lowish in first pic Tom, is that there is a high percentage of grinds around the filter which won't have extracted properly due to insufficient contact with the brew water. In your second you've got a perfect draw down convex bed so I would expect extraction yield to be higher than the other pic. Stirring the brew after last drop of water is added is the best way to get a good draw down and flat/convex bed. Stir should be quite gentle or the bed will end up too convex. For 500grms brew water with 29-30grm dose, brew time will be 5mins plus with a brew weight of around 380-390grms.


Exactly my thoughts Patrick, I'm not used to stirring at the end and so missed it this time. As I said, I will repeat the brew with added stirring this time.

I got 5min last time, so I'm guessing with a stir it might be even longer as grinds will settle rather than stick to the filter and out of the way.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Bet you the overall brew time doesn't increase much with the stir, Tom


----------



## dsc

I'll report back after work today









Regards,

T.


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> Hi Mark - letting the bed drain through.


Seems like a lot of brew water being eaten up somewhere?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> Seems like a lot of brew water being eaten up somewhere?


Chemex paper is very thick - be interesting to see how much it retains all by itself - will check that with tomorrow morning's brew. With doses from 33grms down to 29grms, I don't get more than 390grms out - can be as low as 380grms - the paper plus the grinds soak up an awful lot


----------



## dsc

Ok, just brewed this:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s152/sh/d224dee9-b446-40c6-b4d0-62d4d23a7400/bbec844c4f56486f1a40f2e97218cd69

Mixed at the end, drained a bit quickly not sure why, barely got to 4min, it was dripping at 3:30min, water temp was 96degC this time. Weight was 440g, so more than figures quoted by Patrick, TDS measured was 1.27% as guessed earlier, much higher. Taste wise it's not great though and that's not something I understand all that well. Smell wise the brew was much better, I normally know how the brew will taste just by smelling it before I taste, this was promising, but a let down on the actual testing. A lot of bitterness, better than yesterday, but I think still underextracted, it's like it was going in the right direction, but went tits up due to something. Earthy, smokey, ashy, it's slightly better cooled, but that bitter note is still there, I'm guessing if I can get rid of it, it will taste right. Question is: how?

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Think the brew time is too fast for 500gms in, Tom. What coffee are you using, apols if you've already mentioned this - is it citrusy or more caramel laden? Bit of a faf, but it might be an idea, once you've tightened up the grind to lengthen the brew time, to sift the grind with a tea strainer or flour sieve but keep the final dose weight the same and use the resultant brew as a reference point for bitterness. TDS% is in the right ball park.


----------



## dsc

I thought so, was actually surprised how fast it was, compared to no stirring









I've tried sifting before on the Guat, I might give it a go on the ZR which I'm guessing produces loads of fines.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> Seems like a lot of brew water being eaten up somewhere?


Checked paper filter water retention - all of 14.5grms prior to this morning's Chemex. Brew yield from 29grm dose was 390gms out. Allowing for a couple of grams evaporation, grinds absorbed 93.5grms of the 500gm in.


----------



## MWJB

Why is the speed relevant if you are breaching 19% yield? If you're adding the brew water in one big hit, rather than the Rao/Perger method, there will be more water (flowing faster through the bed) whilst the grinds are hydrophobic. It strikes me that this will cause a faster brew time...which in itself can be pretty arbitrary?

With the Rao/Perger method, you're essentially doing a couple of prewets & a stir, then adding remaining brew water hopefully as the bed has pretty much settled, so the water has to pass through it, rather than running around buoyant grinds.

Tom, your beverage weight looks more typical. If you have a wider grind size distribution, you may be looking at dropping target TDS/Yield (1.20-1.22%TDS) to prevent overextraction...or, sieving as Patrick suggests.


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> Checked paper filter water retention - all of 14.5grms prior to this morning's Chemex. Brew yield from 29grm dose was 390gms out. Allowing for a couple of grams evaporation, grinds absorbed 93.5grms of the 500gm in.


Well, you have the figures there in black & white...still strikes me as a little counter intuitive. If you're wetting the paper when rinsing prior to brewing then I wonder why it would hold much more water? I'd expect, with fewer fines/sieving, to have less retention (


----------



## dsc

At this point I'm not 100% sure how overextracted vs underextracted compare tastes wise, all I can say is that the last brew was bitter and that was destroying all the other flavours. I was aiming for 4-5min to make sure it's not underextracted, but still judge it by tasting at the end (not assume 4-5min is the correct time). Thinking about it, it makes sense for it to drain faster, especially since I get it a pretty long stir , so the grinds were floating, swirling around for at least 50% of the brew period, before settling and slowing down the flow.

I add around 2/3 of the water in one go and then slow down, adding water to maintain a certain level (at 60-70% of the filter height).

Btw I'm also surprised with the pretty high retention on Patrick's brews.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Setting the EK at eight (3 clicks off coarsest), brew came out at 1.30%TDS with an extraction yield of 18.21%. Body/mouthfeel were in no way thin. Clearly, the EK is a very competent grinder for pour over in terms of keep the percentage of fines in check.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Thinking about it, it makes sense for it to drain faster, especially since I get it a pretty long stir , so the grinds were floating, swirling around for at least 50% of the brew period, before settling and slowing down the flow.


Wonder if the long stir your refer to, Tom, may be relevant. Rao's method, which I follow assiduously, calls for a gentle stir when around 100grms of water have been first added. I use a north/south, east/west motion once in each direction to make sure the slurry is evenly saturated. Then pour the remaining water in three to four goes in a spiral motion (sometimes centre to periphery sometimes periphery to centre) keeping the level approx half way up the side and ensuring no grinds are left high and dry. Then, once the final drops of water have been added, I stir in one rotation quite slowly - just enough to get the remnants of the bloom to begin to turn with the momentum.


----------



## garydyke1

Out came the 250 micron screen today.

19.9g pre fine removal (used a finer grind than usual - 3 clicks on maestro+)

17.6g post fine removal

Chemex made with Vilca Washed (choc and walnut city usually)

Used my normal technique but added a light stir for the final draw down. Total of 295g water added

Total time approx 3.5-4 mins

Lacked any of the sweetness I had been getting before in other brew methods - ended up with a very plain brew

Think I would need to go much finer if removing


----------



## jeebsy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Setting the EK at eight (3 clicks off coarsest), brew came out at 1.30%TDS with an extraction yield of 18.21%. Body/mouthfeel were in no way thin. Clearly, the EK is a very competent grinder for pour over in terms of keep the percentage of fines in check.


Did you still sieve?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Did you still sieve?


Found this unnecessary with the EK, jeesby - going to try a click finer tomorrow and drop the dose a gram to see what happens. One bonus is I'm saving around 5grms a brew. Calculated the EK will have paid for itself in 30 years - result!


----------



## Neill

Posted in error.


----------



## jeebsy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Found this unnecessary with the EK, jeesby - going to try a click finer tomorrow and drop the dose a gram to see what happens. One bonus is I'm saving around 5grms a brew. Calculated the EK will have paid for itself in 30 years - result!


Fantastic news......less faffing the better.


----------



## dsc

Tried it again, same parameters, slightly different technique, after adding 100ml for the bloom, I've mixed the slurry with a bamboo paddle (the one from SQM) and added the rest pretty fast to 300ml, slow down at that point and levelled it off till 500ml. Afterwards I did a single stir around the edge to make sure nothing stuck. Took 4min to drain, TDS for this was 1.37% so pretty high and much higher than before, way to much in the taste dept for me, less bitter though.

Got the Everything but Espresso today, looked up the manual drip section, curious why Rao says to not use more than 16oz of water? I'm guessing it's for non-Chemex brewers, like a V60? I will give his top-up approach a go.

Regards,

T.


----------



## MWJB

Remember to go coarser.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Got the Everything but Espresso today, looked up the manual drip section, curious why Rao says to not use more than 16oz of water? I'm guessing it's for non-Chemex brewers, like a V60? I will give his top-up approach a go.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Chemex is fine with 500+grm input. What are the beans' tasting notes, Tom? I get loads of depth from Chemex which is why I really like it. Can you provide the extraction yield value for reference and dose weight. IMO, 4 mins brew time for Chemex is quick - I've not been able to get it down below 5mins using doses as low as 29grms with 500grm in.


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> 4 mins brew time for Chemex is quick - I've not been able to get it down below 5mins using doses as low as 29grms with 500grm in.


The time isn't so much relevant to the gross weights specifically, it's as much driven by the weight of each addition of brew water vs grind. For example the George Howell method for 25-28g:390g (in 3 equal portions) aims for 3:30-4:00. If you add water in smaller pulses then there is less brew water weight acting on the bed, slower flow through the bed (more aggressive extraction), a coarser grind to offset overextraction.

Pulsed pours make for a more uniform rate of dilution vs extraction. High fill levels & letting large volumes drain tend to be more diluted in the earlier stages but finish stronger at the end, as the water level drops & flow slows...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Knocked dose down a gram to 28grms and tightened up the EK half a notch to 7.5. Been holding back a bag of HB Costa Rica Carlos Arrieta Catura which was awarded HB's highest cupping score so a pretty good test for the EK. Brew came in at 1.33%TDS with an extraction yield of 19.54%. Hugely complex flavour - balanced body and a long lingering sweet aftertaste. Just been down to the kitchen half an hour later -placed is filled with a sweet heady aroma.


----------



## garydyke1

Some pics from 250micron removal . 4 clicks finer than yesterday . Removed 0.9g from 20g. Pour time was no slower .

Result was more aromatics , quite hoppy and citrus and (phew) some of the choc and walnut missing yesterday . There still could be way more sweetness . Finer still tomorrow !


----------



## kikapu

garydyke1 said:


> Some pics from 250micron removal . 4 clicks finer than yesterday . Removed 0.9g from 20g. Pour time was no slower .
> 
> Result was more aromatics , quite hoppy and citrus and (phew) some of the choc and walnut missing yesterday . There still could be way more sweetness . Finer still tomorrow !


Where did you purchase your 250 micron screen??


----------



## garydyke1

One of the guys on the forum sorted it 2 years ago (?) ...cant remember who : (

It was aquarium supplies from memory.

All I can say it this....I cant wait to get an EK : )


----------



## kikapu

garydyke1 said:


> One of the guys on the forum sorted it 2 years ago (?) ...cant remember who : (
> 
> It was aquarium supplies from memory.
> 
> All I can say it this....I cant wait to get an EK : )


Yeah no worries had a look at my local aquarium supplies place the other week and they didnt have anything.

You want an EK!!??? You kept that to yourself


----------



## Neill

garydyke1 said:


> One of the guys on the forum sorted it 2 years ago (?) ...cant remember who : (
> 
> It was aquarium supplies from memory.
> 
> All I can say it this....I cant wait to get an EK : )


Had a quick look on eBay. There seem to be plenty of aquarium ones for sale.


----------



## garydyke1

OMG - Allowed this to cool and its pure, clear, 100% Vilca nectar with zero roast, zero bitterness, sweet, juicy, walnut, choc, pear acidity, even a touch of the red berries Steve mentioned for this years crop. Chemex of the year : )


----------



## garydyke1

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250-MICRON-ZOOPLANKTON-STACKABLE-SIEVE-ROTIFERS-BRINE-SHRIMP-COPEPODS-MARINE-/321105750387


----------



## kikapu

garydyke1 said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250-MICRON-ZOOPLANKTON-STACKABLE-SIEVE-ROTIFERS-BRINE-SHRIMP-COPEPODS-MARINE-/321105750387


Thanks was just going to post that link!!







just the job


----------



## dsc

Story continues...

I went back 25 ticks, used the same method (ie. single 500ml water drop rather than adding in stages) and it was under extracted, so I went 10 ticks finer and...used a different method this time I've used Rao's way of brewing and it came out at 1.47% TDS, pretty heavy, it took 6min to drain and I could sense it was too fine a grind as the smell during brewing was changing towards overextracted. Will go coarser tomorrow and give this new stage thing another go.

Regards,

T.


----------



## dsc

More...

Brewed some this morning, 10 ticks coarser, Rao's method, in with around 80ml, mix, wait 30s, add water up to around 250ml, stir, let it drain half way through, add water (around 100ml) to the same level as before, stir, let it drain, add water etc. Got 1.35%, but it felt a bit too much, so I went 10 more ticks coarser, same method, used warmer water this time (around 98degC to start with). Got the following:

TDS: 1.28%

brew: 420ml

coffee: 30g

water: 500ml

total brew time: 5min

This gives almost 19% ext. yield, almost bang on with parameters according to Mojo software, just a bit low on the brew weight. Taste wise it's damn sweet, very well balanced and probably the best Chemex so far









Regards,

T.


----------



## dsc

And more...

This morning I did another brew, but I had a feeling it was a bit underextracted, so I went 10 clicks finer and brewed a batch again, this time using 480ml (ran out of water), 30g of coffee, similar method, although tried to keep it at 100ml per portion of water added at a time. Result was:

TDS: 1.43%

brew: 420ml

coffee: 30g

water: 480ml

total brew time: 5min

% Ext: 21%

After checking the numbers and having a sniff, I though it would be too strong for me, but it was delish! sweetness all the way. I'm seriously surprised how good the brews are when using a conical.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Good to hear Tom. Which did you prefer more - the 19% or 21% yield?


----------



## dsc

Cheers Patrick, I'd say the 21% yield was better and more balanced.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Cheers Patrick, I'd say the 21% yield was better and more balanced.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Interesting. Trying to get my yields on some HB Costa Rican down to 19% as I can't pick out the pineapple notes at 20-21%.


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## dsc

It's definitely less fruity at around 21%, I mean you get fruity smells from the brew, but generally other 'heavier' tastes cover up the lighter notes.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Managed to get the morning's Chemex down to 19.2% extraction (TDS1.36) after backing off the grind almost fully on the EK. More evidence of the elusive pineapple notes today but still not as much as I would like. Got enough for a couple more brews so will try and take it below 19% to see what happens. Noticing that the EK holds up the body/mouthfeel when extraction yield is deliberately dropped - interesting.


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## dsc

I've changed beans, using Nicaragua Finca Limoncillo now, pretty big beans and as it turns out quite a lot of fine particles are produced during grinding, the draw down almost stops at the end. Using the same setting as for the previous coffee I got a 17min brew, went 10 ticks coarser, got 10min today, TDS was 1.3%, brew weight 425g, 19.3% ext, taste wise it's good, but not very fruity and maybe a bid muddy due to the long drain. Might have to sift this to get anything reasonable.

Regards,

T.


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## dsc

Back again, used the Guatemala to brew another batch, as the draw time on the ZR-71 is too long and I can't go any coarser, as the TDS drops pretty quickly (I'm already at 1.3%).

Guatemala brewed in 3min less than the ZR-71, total of 7min and gave a TDS of 1.41% / 20.64% ext., I should be able to back off a bit more to get closer to 1.3% and go back to normal brew times. Should be interesting from a taste point of view, this 1.41% seems a bit too strong for me.

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

Or pull the filter when you get say 400g in the carafe? If the last g draining through the bed are really slow, your %TDS could even be going up in the final drips?


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## dsc

Well on the ZR the brews I was getting at 1.30% seem under extracted which leads me to believe that as you say the last 3-4min of super slow drain is when the TDS goes high. I will give the fast pull a try next time.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Opened new bag of Ethopian Kebel Kercha Guji - four days from roast date. This bean is so forgiving. Today's brew was full of sweet heady aroma - blueberry muffin in the mouth and a wonderful toffee apple sweet/bitter finish. Bloom was predictably more lively due to higher % of CO2 not having degassed but no impact on coffee flavour/quality.

29grms

EK set to 8

500gm in

425grms out

5min 45sec

TDS 1.44

Extraction 22%

22% extraction, on previous grinder, body would have blocked out all the delicate flavour clarity - not so with the EK - plenty of body and flavour clarity - really impressed with the EK's grind consistency for pour over.


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## dsc

Here's a video I've made today:






TDS:1.32%, standard 425g of brewed coffee, so 19.5% ext. yield. Due to the super long brew (8min) it tastes muddy which is not great. I tried what Mark suggested above on a previous brew, took out the filter before it finished, got 355g in the carafe, whooping 1.55% TDS, so I guess the slow drip action dilutes the brew, rather than make it more concentrated.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Enjoyed the video Tom - a question though. What's the reasoning behind the stirs after each pour? Notice you give the dose a pretty hefty stirring prior to leaving it to bloom. Would wonder if this might be leading to hefty TDS percentages. Will try and put up a video of what I do with my Chemex regime to show how much I stir/agitate the brew. Eight minutes seems on the long side - when mine have gone beyond six minutes, I've lost all flavour clarity.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> Here's a video I've made today:


You can get a curve, dilutes heavily to start then might level out ...when flow through the bed is really slow it can start to climb up again - really depends on the flow rate...355g @ 1.55%TDS? Something else must have been different because your yields between the 2 brews are similar despite the difference in concentration. I'd maybe have topped up the 1.55% brew with hot water to 425g to get the concentration down to normal levels, without affecting yield?


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## MWJB

You're still adding water at 3:40...seems quite late in?


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## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> You're still adding water at 3:40...seems quite late in?


So, grind too fine then??


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## MWJB

Maybe, but a greater weight of water above the bed would drain quicker too. Be interesting to see what occurs if all the water is in by 2:00 to 2:30?


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## dsc

Cheers Gents, this is why I wanted to post a video, loads more to talk about.

I do agree that maybe I stir too much, got a bit paranoid about grinds high and dry If you look up Rao's book, his method suggests stirring the bloom and also stirring in between pours. I tried to top up to the same level, but what I can do is split the brew water into two top ups rather than three / four, it's just that then you cannot keep the level down as you basically add 200ml per top up which is 50-60% of the paper filter.

Regards,

T.


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## MWJB

Yeah it's balancing the size of the pours against grind, as Patrick suggests, going coarser may well help with the number of pours you did in the video, or as you say, fewer but bigger pours with the grind you have.


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## dsc

Here's the end shot of the filter:










Too much stirring as the bottom isn't flat, also, super muddy although the grind itself isn't too fine when dry.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Grind looks really fine compared to the level of grind I use. Will post a picture of tomorrow morning's Chemex for comparison.


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## dsc

You can compare what the dry stuff looks like at the beginning of the video. It's like night and day.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Here's this morning's bleary eyed effort!

View attachment 6080







Extraction time was 5min 45secs; TDS 1.36%; extraction yield 21%. Body/mouthfeel nice and balanced with flavour clarity coming through perfectly. Going to drop the extraction yield next time to just under 20% for comparison.


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## MWJB

It does sometimes happen, with pulsed pours, that the finer particles end up settled at the top of the finished bed, whereas with a fill & drain you tend to get the boulders at the top. Whether it is, in itself always a sign of a malfunction (rather than ideal)...I dunno, I guess it depends at what stage in the brew the first line of contact becomes the finer particles (thin layer of fine particles at the top, with slow moving water passing through it, doesn't strike me as great for evenness)? Maybe back off on agitating the bed after the intial wetting/degassing? Just stir the surface to get the spin?


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## dsc

Patrick this is similar to what I get, drain time is similar, grind size at the beginning is similar to what I use, the only difference is no major mixing after / during bloom and less mixing in the middle.

Regards,

T.


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## dsc

Switched beans today, brews drain much quicker, first one done today was 5:30min, 1.32%, pretty much bang on although not so clear as I'd like it to be.

Patrick can you post a photo of the brew post drain? I got served a filter at Bulldog, but it was really muddy and looked like a french press, althugh it had no sediment on the bottom of the serving carafe / cup.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Switched beans today, brews drain much quicker, first one done today was 5:30min, 1.32%, pretty much bang on although not so clear as I'd like it to be.
> 
> Patrick can you post a photo of the brew post drain? I got served a filter at Bulldog, but it was really muddy and looked like a french press, althugh it had no sediment on the bottom of the serving carafe / cup.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Will do but will have to wait a few days - otherwise engaged!


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## dsc

I've experimented a bit yesterday with slurry temps and found out there's no easy way to achieve anything above 90degC in the Chemex. I've warmed up the carafe and rinsed the filter, removed the water, dropped the grinds and started brewing straight away using off the boil water (95-96degC). I've measured the slurry temp straight away with a naked thermocouple and got 88degC, this was at the very start of the extraction and I'm sure the temps dropped further as I topped the Chemex up with water a few times, stirred etc.

Rao suggests keeping the slurry temp at 91-94degC throughout the extraction, surely that's rather hard to achieve in a Chemex? if so, I'm wondering how badly this affects the brews.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

As promised, Tom - here is a picture post brew. Backed off the grind from 9.5 to 10.0. TDS came in at 1.31% with extraction dead on 20.0% - down one percent to previous brew. Flavour clarity was outstanding - but perhaps being away for a week might have played a part. Excuse the steam haze on the second pic.

View attachment 6197
View attachment 6198


I agree with your comments regarding Scott Rao. It's impossible to keep a Chemex above 91c unless you're applying a blow torch whilst brewing. I keep the pouring kettle on the hob in between pours keeping it on the boil and don't wait for it to cool at all when pouring on to the slurry as the slurry temp will cool it down appreciably - doing this keeps me in the 90c ball park.


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## dsc

Using an Ethiopia from HB, found I have to grind pretty fine to get the right brews. Out of curiosity, what's your Chemex setting on the EK Patrick? say compared to espresso, do you back off a lot?

Had probably the most balanced brew today, tightened the grind by 20 ticks (0.2mm), drank a whole cup in one go

I was checking some Chemex brew guides yesterday and I'm amazed how many simply say: add water to bloom, add the rest of the water, drain, drink. No stirring and super coarse grind. Can't see how that can generate anything other than crap brews.

Regards,

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> I was checking some Chemex brew guides yesterday and I'm amazed how many simply say: add water to bloom, add the rest of the water, drain, drink. No stirring and super coarse grind. Can't see how that can generate anything other than crap brews. Regards, T.


Couldn't agree more Tom. Am happy with Rao's method - works for me. Checking my notes, sad but I keep a record - best setting for Ethiopian Kebel on EK was one full stop from coarsest setting giving me 20% extraction. I've got an unopened bag too


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## markf1988

hey all just looking to buy my chemex. What size would you recommend, if any or just down to personal preference? Thanks


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## The Systemic Kid

1-3 cup gives 300ml in - good for one mug. Next size up is 500ml - good for two mugs.


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## Neill

Had a wee play with my chemex for the first time in a month. I was using workshop finca la esmerelda. Tasting notes say sweet pink grapefruit acidity balanced with a light caramel body. I've been brewing this in a Kalita the last few mornings and getting a caramel sweetness to begin with then a lovely citrus tang. I went with 1.10 out on the hausgrind. 30g of coffee. 60g water for bloom with a nsew stir finishing at 40s. Remaining water added in 2x220ml pours in a circular motion out towards the sides to wash any grinds down. Circular stir after the second addition. Draw down finished at 5.40 including the bloom time. Convex bed left behind. Still got a lovely caramel sweetness off the first mouthful then some of that citrus acidity, maybe not as pronounced as I was getting from the Kalita. Still tasted lovely but I've a slightly bitter aftertaste from it. 500mls is enough for now but I might try splitting the pour in 3 next time and keep everything else the same.


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## Geordie Boy

Also try loosening the grind a little as a 5:40 draw down time is quite long IMO and would make it more bitter. I generally look for 3:30 to 4:00 brew time after blooming so I think you're a minute long overall


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## Neill

Geordie Boy said:


> Also try loosening the grind a little as a 5:40 draw down time is quite long IMO and would make it more bitter. I generally look for 3:30 to 4:00 brew time after blooming so I think you're a minute long overall


I know, I usually aim for quicker and typically by not stirring and aiming for a cone shape on draw down but I was interested in the techniques mentioned by some above and a recent vid by tsk in his ek thread. It's been suggested that going to between 5 and 6 minutes is ok. The bitterness only came in as an aftertaste. Absent when drinking it.


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## The Systemic Kid

Don't know where the four minute rule comes from for Chemex.Going over four minutes is fine when brewing 500grms. Depending on the bean, I hit five and a half minutes with no negative impact on the coffee. The bitterness is down to the fines in your grind over extracting. Found using a general purpose kitchen flour sieve - not ultra fine - tea strainer grade - will remove the fines and make a noticeable difference to the coffee. This works with delicate fruit forward beans/roast - fines really block out the flavour clarity.


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Don't know where the four minute rule comes from for Chemex.Going over four minutes is fine when brewing 500grms. Depending on the bean, I hit five and a half minutes with no negative impact on the coffee. The bitterness is down to the fines in your grind over extracting. Found using a general purpose kitchen flour sieve - not ultra fine - tea strainer grade - will remove the fines and make a noticeable difference to the coffee. This works with delicate fruit forward beans/roast - fines really block out the flavour clarity.


I tried it with a sieve I had once, too course a sieve. All the coffee went through! I wonder did the 4 minute thing come from the hasbean brew guide. That's certainly where I heard it first.


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## The Systemic Kid

HasBean suggest brewing 500grms in two and a half to three minutes and abort if it goes over four. No way could I achieve that unless the grind was the size of house bricks


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## Geordie Boy

There's quite a few other places that recommend a 4 min brew time however I wouldn't be surprised if this gives the right mix of grind setting that reduces the number of fines. Remember that the majority of people don't sieve their ground coffee, therefore it stands to reason that a courser grind setting will produce less proportion of fines on a given grinder, and 3:30 to 4:00 might give the right balance between flavour and bitterness


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> HasBean suggest brewing 500grms in two and a half to three minutes and abort if it goes over four. No way could I achieve that unless the grind was the size of house bricks


Exactly. That's why I always thought I was doing something wrong! Especially at larger volumes.


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## garydyke1

I think the time factor with Chemex is largely down to grind quality. The difference between Maestro+ and EK is huge - can go finer and longer it only gets more and more aromatic and sweeter


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## Geordie Boy

I'd love to see a particle distribution graph for different grinders at different settings. Someone from Baratza posted a graph for the Virtuoso at 3 different settings on H-B a few years back, ultimately that tells you how even the grinder is

Edit

Forgot that they actually posted a comparison for the Baratza range at the time (i.e. Maestro, Virtuoso, Preciso & Vario) each at 3-4 different settings


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## The Systemic Kid

Just brewed a larger than usual Chemex: 48grms of Bolivian Bolinda- 750grms water - ground pretty coarse. Took six and a half minutes to complete.


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## garydyke1

The Korean barista champ posted something about 9.5 minute pour-overs and the EK43 , will try and dig it out


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## Neill

Have you tried any using the hausgrind tsk, would be interested in what settings if you have?


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## Neill

Ok, same setting on the hausgrind. Still 30g of coffee and total 500g of water added. 60g for bloom, 30s this time then 3 splits of the remaining water with the draw down ending at 5.25 including bloom. Still getting caramel and that lovely tang of grapefruit. We'll see if the bitter aftertaste is still there.


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## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> Have you tried any using the hausgrind tsk, would be interested in what settings if you have?


Going to do that this week Neil.


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Going to do that this week Neil.


Excellent, looking forward to hearing your thoughts.


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## The Systemic Kid

Don't keep us in suspense Neil Nice flat bed - Scott Rao would be impressed.


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## Neill

Ok, slightly more acidity, less mouthfeel but don't seem to have the bitterness today. Wonder am I underextracting slightly now. There's a slight central mound in that bed that's hard to see in the pic. Was overall pleased by this one.


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## Thecatlinux

Had a great read through this thread , most informative .







Followed a few links to pourover techniques and there are so many out there on the internet. Is it possible someone can share any links/video to a good technique for chemex noob ?


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## Mrboots2u

Try this one


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## The Systemic Kid

Recommend Matt Perger's approach






Although this is V60 - the technique is the same. Important to watch the pour technique and ensure grinds don't get left 'high and dry' on sides. If your technique is good, you will end up with a flat or slightly convex bed - if it's uneven, next time you brew give a very gentle stir after final water added. You will see from the clip, Matt achieves the 'Rao spin' which is what the stir will do if you don't achieve with your pour.

Temperature is critical with Chemex - it's impossible to overheat it - quite the opposite so keep your water on the boil between pours and wait a few secs before pouring to keep temp in the 90c ball park. Steve Leighton in the HasBean clip says the pour should be completed in four minutes. This is not always correct - depends on the bean and how much you are brewing, eg.g 500grms upwards. As for grind, go for a very coarse sand consistency to begin with and fine tune according to your brew times.

When you place the filter paper in the Chemex jug, make sure the three layer part is across the spout and pre-wet before brewing.


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## Thecatlinux

Thanks, TSK . ....Bugger ! Video not supported on ipad


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## The Systemic Kid

Thecatlinux said:


> Thanks, TSK . ....Bugger ! Video not supported on ipad


Just checked that on my iPad - weird! Works on the Mac.


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## The Systemic Kid

This morning's brew was Bolivian Finca David Honey Process. Been struggling to get the extraction yield under 20% - between 19-20% really brings out the flavour profile IMO. In espresso, this bean gives cherry/blackcurrant Tunes - mental.

Opened up the grind to one click off coarsest setting to lower the TDS%.

31grms in - 451grms out in around 4 minutes. Extraction yield bang on the money at 19.25% giving lovely sweet blackcurrant/cherry Tunes.


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