# Ristretto vs Normale vs Lungo



## Ricky (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi guys,

I understand that most people agree that the difference among ristretto / normale / lungo relates to the brewing ratio, being the range:

Ristretto: 1:1 ~ 1:2

Normale: 1:2 ~ 1:3

Lungo: 1:3 ~ 1:4

However, I couldn't find any info on extraction time. Let's say we agree on a 1:2 normale recipe using 25s extraction time. Then, using this recipe as the base how do I get a ristretto / lungo?

Ristretto:

- shorter extraction time (same grind size) or

- finer grind size (keeping the 25s time constant)?

Lungo:

- longer extraction time (same grind size) or

- coarser grind size (keeping the 25s time constant)?

Thanks!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ristretto & Lungo are both Espresso drinks, the one that fits between the extremes is a Normale. These terms are very subjective, one man's Normale is another's Lungo. Ratios are more universal.

Forget "25 seconds". Shorter shots may need either the same time, or a little more, than longer shots. Aim for your target output weight, adjust grind to steer the flavour, make a note of shot time, but kill the shot by weight.


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## Ricky (Apr 10, 2016)

Hi MWJB,

My bad (I edited it to Ristretto vs Normale vs Lungo on the subject and body text, not sure how to change the thread name)!

I used the 25 sec as an example, but it could well be 30s or 20s. What I meant is, let's say, I have a normale recipe for a particular bean that I like where I am using 18g:36g and the extraction time is 25 sec. If I want to pull a ristretto (or lungo) using the same beans, am I looking to ajust the grind size or the extration time?

Thanks!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Adjust the grind size. The time can vary over a range, it will be what it will be when the shot tastes good, but a 1:1.8 shot is always a 1:1.8 shot.

We grind finer when we want to push less water through the puck, we grind coarser when we want to push more water through the puck. Brew times for long & short shots will overlap (so, OK, I'm beating around the bush - time will be fairly constant) but shorter ristrettos, may need to take longer to hit an equivalent extraction. There's no reason why you couldn't also pull them in less time* if* you can find a flavour you like there, without sour under-extraction.


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## Ricky (Apr 10, 2016)

So ideally a coffee shop should have one grinder for each different espresso size it sells? Because I presume a barista won't change the grind settings of his grinder if I order a double ristretto, for instance.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Im no having a dig here but

Make drinks that taste good, call em Derek , Brian , Colin whatever , if you weigh in and out you will be able to repeat the taste

Honestly don't get hung up on time or names

A shorter brew ratio will taste different to a longer one .... but does it matter if it's called ristretto or Yvonne ( thought id use a ladies name for once )

I brewed an 85 second shot this morning , it was tasty as hell ... what was it , christ knows ....


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Forgive the basic question in what appears to be an advanced topic, but above it was mentioned to measure the shot by weight but assuming a 'standard double shot' espresso is 60ml and you are using approx. 18g of coffee, why would you measure the shot in grams instead of ml ?


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## Ricky (Apr 10, 2016)

Spy, volume depends on density. The density of the liquid part of an extraction is pretty close to 1, but definitely different for the crema. So if you have differences on crema size, you won't be able to access the output properly. Volume varies dependent on density, but weight is constant (to be precise, mass is constant, weight of course will change with altitude changes, but I am getting overly nerd here).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spy said:


> Forgive the basic question in what appears to be an advanced topic, but above it was mentioned to measure the shot by weight but assuming a 'standard double shot' espresso is 60ml and you are using approx. 18g of coffee, why would you measure the shot in grams instead of ml ?


Beginners Reading - Weighing Espresso - Brew Ratios

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D22879&share_tid=22879&share_fid=6813&share_type=t


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Ricky said:


> Hi MWJB,
> 
> My bad (I edited it to Ristretto vs Normale vs Lungo on the subject and body text, not sure how to change the thread name)!
> 
> ...


I've taken the liberty of editing the Thread title. Rob


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## Ricky (Apr 10, 2016)

Thank you Rob!


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Beginners Reading - Weighing Espresso - Brew Ratios
> 
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D22879&share_tid=22879&share_fid=6813&share_type=t


Thanks, just read it.

Great write up and very useful.

Consider me educated


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Im no having a dig here but
> 
> Make drinks that taste good, call em Derek , Brian , Colin whatever , if you weigh in and out you will be able to repeat the taste
> 
> ...


Now that's how you don't beat about the bush.









Go Boots


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Oh really give your head a wobble.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

June 4 2016 ==> Feb 26 2020

"Oh really give your head a wobble".......

Wow!!!
a) This weeks Lazarus Award
b) A lot of thought for that profound gem??


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Jony said:


> Oh really give your head a wobble.


 This thread is almost 4 years old. You been digging through the archives fella.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Drewster said:


> June 4 2016 ==> Feb 26 2020
> 
> "Oh really give your head a wobble".......
> 
> ...


 Thank you and guess what, yep that's right


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