# Morning Drink - improvements?



## JPChess (Feb 15, 2019)

Morning All

Just recorded my process this morning and the outcome.

Can you please review and see if there could be improvements.

Process:

15 grams of fresh ground coffee from the new mazzer super jolly.

Ground into container and mixed with fine tool.

Poured into a bottomless portafilter (photo)

Using the motta distribution tool level the puck (photo)

Tamper using light force with motta tamp (photo)

Into the trusty PID gaggia classic with brew temp at 96.

Run for 28 seconds resulting in 52 grams out. (Video)

Should have maybe ground finer or stopped the machine a little sooner.

Resulting shot looks good (photo)

Poor attempt at latte art but hey ho!

Any comments would be great.

Cheers

JP

























View attachment 20200425_080325_576x324.mp4


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Sure looks good, but why 15gr in and 52gr out?

Your basket looks like it can accommodate another 2-3gr, and at 52gr out you are over-extracting the coffee and probably getting bitter notes.

If you watch your video, at about 15sec in, the extraction turns completely "blonde", almost white; that's where you might want to stop it. Alternatively, if you really want to go for 25+ secs, grind finer.


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## JPChess (Feb 15, 2019)

@ArisP Great question, simple answer I don't know. Haha i got watching then forgot to turn it off.

I was aiming for about 35-40 grams of espresso.

The basket is a 15 gram VST, so I'm going to try keep it around 15.

I will try grinding a little finer in the next couple of days.

Thanks for the feedback!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

What he said. That line on the inside of the basket is giving you an idea of where it should be filled to after tamping.

It doesn't matter what it looked like, how did it taste?


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

JPChess said:


> @ArisP Great question, simple answer I don't know. Haha i got watching then forgot to turn it off.
> 
> I was aiming for about 35-40 grams of espresso.
> 
> ...


 No worries, as Tom asked, how did it taste?


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## JPChess (Feb 15, 2019)

It tasted good, slightly bitter maybe.

I have not tasted enough if I'm honest so my perception is going to differ 

in the right direction I think.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

From looking alone I'd say the coffee comes out very fast compared to mine, even in my 15gVST. Could be too coarse.

Also I noticed the level of coffee doesn't go down after the tamp? If that's a before and after. Mine drops at least 2mm. Your tamp might be a bit light, or you're effectively doing a tamp with the leveling tool instead? Mine comes out too fast when I do that


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Good routine I would say.

Only thing I would say is the grind could be a touch finer to slow things down (although if you do up your dose, as suggested below, this will also slow things down) and the ratio you are using.

Traditionally we think of espresso as 1:2 ratio.

So with your 15 g in I would aim for 30g out.

You ratio is more like 1:3.5 which could explain the bitter flavour you are experiencing,

I would advocate 18g as a good starting point to dose for a double.

Try 18g in to 36g out over about 30 seconds or so and I think you will see an improvement.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

No ratio is bitter, or sour...you adjust the flavour balance by dialling in grind to suit.

Ratio determines a fairly narrow range of concentration at a tasty extraction.

I often brew ~1:5 without bitterness.

Sure, try shorter ratios...if you can't shake sourness with any grind setting, go a bit longer on the ratio.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

It's always difficult to say from one shot. You could extract more, push past the bitterness and get more flavour, or you could extract more and make things worse. Extracting less isn't necessarily the way to go. If you enjoyed the concentration/dilution (1:3.5) and don't want more concentrated flavours then grind finer to slow the shot down and see if you get past the bitterneess and get more flavour, if you don't you can grind coarser and extract to the same ratio which will hopefully avoid the bitter notes. If you want a more concentrated shot then aim for a lower ratio i.e 1:2, 1:2.5 and grind finer to increase extraction -- if you don't grind finer you'll get a more concentrated but lower extraction which might well remove bitterness but then you might be able to get past the bitterness by extracting more.

The following is a work in progress and I could be very wrong: with a dark roast, or any roast for that matter, grinding finer increases fines which potentially increases silt in the cup. With a dark roast that silt might impact more negatively than a lighter roast. So with darker roasts you might find a coarser grind and longer ratio is at least easier to get a good shot.


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

MWJB said:


> No ratio is bitter, or sour...you adjust the flavour balance by dialling in grind to suit.
> 
> Ratio determines a fairly narrow range of concentration at a tasty extraction.
> 
> ...


 What's the best way to find the right ratio? Salami shot?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

-Mac said:


> What's the best way to find the right ratio? Salami shot?


 I don't see the point of a salami shot, it doesn't tell you anything a whole shot doesn't.

Really, it's just a case of finding a preference in concentration that suits you & the kind of drinks you make. E.g. If you use a shot as a base for a large milk drink, you might want it to be very concentrated, to stand up against a quantity of milk.

If you most often make Americanos/long blacks, you're going to dilute anyway, so there's no real need to make a very concentrated shot.

I don't care for sour shots & I don't mind espresso on the weaker side, so I'm happy enough pulling longer shots. Though, if I go out for a coffee and I'm served shorter shots that are balanced & clean, I like these too. It's more a case of what allows me to hit my preference, most often, with rapidly rotating coffees, at home.

If a certain ratio is mostly sour, maybe consider going longer, as long as it doesn't become too thin for you to enjoy.


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