# So conicals taste better. Do they?



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

A couple of great talks here regarding grinders. With real science / data


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

For those who saw the slides the other week this is the context. Thanks for finding this.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Following the "taste test" in the video where the "20 gauge" grounds seem to be almost universally regarded as the best taste...

Is there a conclusion here that consistency is the most important factor, rather than the type of burr?

If that is the case, are any forum users aware of which grinder (regardless of burr style) produces the most consistent grounds, or at least, the lowest number of fines and boulders?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Nice to see some science applied but a little frustrating as the presentations focused on filter method rather than espresso. It would be nice to see if the taste profiles that were evidenced between conical and flat burr sets are replicated with espresso grinds. Randy Pope's findings that small adjustments have big consequences on nature of the grind is intuitive but he also makes the important point, given the grinder process is working on very fine tolerances, that any wear or play in key components is going to have a significant impact on the consistency of the grind.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Basically you want as even a grind as possible at your desired range, brewed/espresso. This is common sense. I am yet to see any evidence to suggest that conicals do this any better than flats as a general rule of thumb. They are usually quicker, which opens up another debate as to whether this reduces heat within the grinds to a significant level to affect taste.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The key to conicals is grind temp, apart from the home use ones, they can spin slower by design and thus have bigger motors that facilitate this, therefore the coffee is subjected to less heat in the grinding process, I have had just about most of the top end flat grinders and not one is as consistent as the k10 or the kony that I had. But this is purely my opinion based on personal use


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What about putting the conical up against a flat 83 mm burr machine with a slow rpm motor .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

sjenner said:


> Following the "taste test" in the video where the "20 gauge" grounds seem to be almost universally regarded as the best taste...
> 
> Is there a conclusion here that consistency is the most important factor, rather than the type of burr?
> 
> If that is the case, are any forum users aware of which grinder (regardless of burr style) produces the most consistent grounds, or at least, the lowest number of fines and boulders?


20 gauge was presumably used for drip. But, yes consistency would apear to be key.

It is likely that many grinders can produce a consistent grind (relatively), more a matter of locating that range and changing the brew method to suit - this seems to be what Fransisca Listov-Saabye is inferring in the Q&A, when asked about the EK43.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

That ek43 is a beast, and is the go to grinder for brewed methods, would love to try it out espresso settings.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Nice to see some science applied but a little frustrating as the presentations focused on filter method rather than espresso. It would be nice to see if the taste profiles that were evidenced between conical and flat burr sets are replicated with espresso grinds.


To get a sample size large enough for robust data for espresso - compared to the Nice triangle test & 500 or so shots, tested for consistency - would be a nightmare & phenominally expensive. So conical & flat burr grinders are used for espresso...what do we use for brewed? The more diluted drink may also make it easier to detect subtle nuances. I think it's important to remember the research was intended to determine if burr alone made a detectable difference, rather than to make a cup of everyone's preferred coffee/roast/prep (seems to be the view of some of the enquiries from the audience).


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> What about putting the conical up against a flat 83 mm burr machine with a slow rpm motor .


Exactly, by what parameter to you normalise factors to get a meaningful comparison...if it's grinding speed (as in RPM) the flat burr needs to be so much bigger and a much higher torque motor to drive it. The research seems to have been conducted with a range of grinders, of each type.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> That ek43 is a beast, and is the go to grinder for brewed methods, would love to try it out espresso settings.


It also seems to have been used by Zoltan Kis the winner of the 2012 World Ibrik championship?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> What about putting the conical up against a flat 83 mm burr machine with a slow rpm motor .


The problem is the difference, the slowest spinning flat burr excluding the fittings and huge mahlkonigs is the royal and that spins at 900 rpm which is relatively slow, however the k10 spins at 350!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, I was going to put my Mythos up against the K10 today, then thought whats the point? I absolutely love the Mythos and am so sorry to see it go. The K10 is not quite dialled in properly yet, but almost there. It is producing a really nice taste using the current DSOl beans. My palate is not good, and whilst I can detect what I like I cannot put it into words. The K10 is probably better, but what I do not think it will convince me of, is that a Titan really belongs in the home. In a shop, it can buzz way all day. The Mythos is just a different grinder to the K10, and I hope its new owner enjoys it as much as I have!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> The problem is the difference, the slowest spinning flat burr excluding the fittings and huge mahlkonigs is the royal and that spins at 900 rpm which is relatively slow, however the k10 spins at 350!


Isn't there a mythos barista at 400 rpm ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

If you have one bring it along!!!!!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> If you have one bring it along!!!!!!


I've got a week , I'll make it out of bits and bobs ..........


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> What about putting the conical up against a flat 83 mm burr machine with a slow rpm motor .


Thats a Mazzer royal


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I think im more motivated to get a high-end grinder for brewed over espresso. Im totally happy with the result in the cup with my Royal BUT I dont think the Baratza Maestro is cutting it for brewed - the amount of fines is quite apparent*

* But its still way better than the Porlex


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Thats a Mazzer royal


Aren't they 900 rpm ?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Aren't they 900 rpm ?


Yes and that's very slow for a flat burr grinder .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

How do we find our grinder's sweet spot without a Ro-Tap or laser diffractor?

I have been using a magnifier, sheet of paper & running through the grind settings. Lo tech, but I reckon we can all tell the difference between big, small, smaller?


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