# Gaggia Classic + PID



## fatboyslim

So finally got round to installing the Auber PID on the Classic.

Took much longer than 30 minutes as Auber suggest but it pays to take everything slowly.

Pretty straight forward as long as you read and re-read the instructions.

I shall be drinking many many shots as I've been without a working machine for 2 weeks


















More pictures to follow and installation write up if anyone is interested and considering getting one themselves?


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## funinacup

Congratulations! Bet you're over the moon to have a machine again!

I have been considering getting a PID for my classic on and off for a while. I would be interested in a write up and more pics and how you find it on a day to day basis etc


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## MartinB

Looking good Mark, definitely interested in a write-up!


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## fatboyslim

So, thoughts after a few days.

The temperature stability guide that Auber provide is very very useful and *has* to be used in conjunction with the PID.

If you leave the machine for the recommended 30 minutes warm up time you can see as little as a 2-3 degree drop in boiler/brew water temperature.

Shots have definitely been consistent and increasing temperature on the PID by even 1 or 2 degrees had a noticeable effect (on Has Bean Machcamarca).

Initially steam control didn't work but this is because the cable had come out of the terminal so I just screwed it in tighter.

Steam temp is at 154 which is what Auber recommend. Steam power is drastically improved. Serious power and turbulence in the frothing jug.

Only one word for the pre-infusion....AWESOME! Set the pulse time, soak time and brew time then just press one button and you're away.

I set the brew time for only 20 seconds and manually override using the brew switch on the Classic to stop the shot when I want to.

Absolutely loving it so far!

Installation instructions, pictures and more usage info to follow.


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## truecksuk

good stuff! I was always intrigued as to what the PID is supposed to do?

I look forward to seeing the instructions and pics!


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## ChiarasDad

Congratulations! I think I spent something like 80 minutes installing mine. I took it all very slow, checking everything over and over - with mains current running all over, I did not want to get electrocuted even once.


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## truecksuk

how much does it cost to install one of these? It seems really expensive.. But then there are some really cheap PIDs on ebay? could these work on a coffee machine?


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## fatboyslim

It is possible to buy all the components individually but you need some experience of electronic engineering to be able to configure a PID yourself.

What Auber do is provide the best possible components all perfectly suited especially for the purpose of controlling temperature on a Gaggia. All the components have already been setup for you.

The kit I went for also has steam control (I still can't believe the increase in steam power this has brought) and pre-infusion (great fun and have got great results so far). This was $210 plus about $20 postage.

Not cheap but I would make the choice again in an instant. The overall improvement in brew temperature for espresso and steam power has pushed the humble Gaggia Classic far beyond an entry level machine in my opinion.

It would be like adding variable boost control and twin turbos to a humble ford fiesta. Its no longer a ford fiesta, its some sort of hyperspace time machine.

I would now describe my gaggia as a hyperspace time machine similarly.

Also today I made 3 flat whites in under 5 minutes all very consistent shots and decent microfoam.

I don't believe this would be possible with the standard theromstats.


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## Pedro083

Don't agree with the engineering experience to configure a PID they have a Auto tune function on even the cheap ones that would make more than most people happy with how fast it recovered temp. Really the auburn ones must just be using a similar auto tune would be interesting to see the difference between the two.


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## fatboyslim

The Auber one uses fuzzy logic to recover extremely fast between readings.

Having a glance through the PID controller instruction manual I noticed this (highlighted in red).










This particular model is not easy to set up from scratch, this is what I was saying.

On a controller specifically designed for espresso machine use, clearly setting up the P, I and D values requires too much user configuration for any autotune.

Simpler models may have autotune features but may vary around the set point by too large a degree.


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## Pedro083

You do know fuzzy logic is really the same as auto tune when we are talking about for this function. A auto tune will heat up the boiler let it cool calculate the time taken to cool and to re-heat. Work out when to turn off heater so temp does not overshoot and at what intervals to turn heater off and on to maintain a set temperature. I am really intrigued to how the pre infusion works on the PID though does it pulse the pump on and off to reduce pressure or does it limit the voltage to the pump


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## fatboyslim

Explanation of pre-infusion. It definitely makes more even pours and the resulting pucks, after pulling a shot, certainly look even.


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## maxscan

Hi Mark

I'm new here, found my way to the forum as I'm considering a PID upgrade for my Gaggia after a few issues with temperature inconsistency recently. Just wanted to ask - where did you get the Auber kit? Did you order direct from the US? If so did you have to pay customs charges?

Thanks in advance,

Max

Ps - notice you went for the blue led - very cool ;-)


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## fatboyslim

I ordered mine directly from Auber Instruments who have fantastic customer service. Click here.

The packages they offer really are completely tailored for the gaggia machine.

Love the improvement it made and couldn't see myself using a classic without a PID (but also considering an upgrade as the small boiler size is still a limiting factor).

Well worth the money however but don't get pre-infusion.


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## Outlaw333

fatboyslim said:


> I ordered mine directly from Auber Instruments who have fantastic customer service. Click here.
> 
> The packages they offer really are completely tailored for the gaggia machine.
> 
> Love the improvement it made and couldn't see myself using a classic without a PID (but also considering an upgrade as the small boiler size is still a limiting factor).
> 
> Well worth the money however but don't get pre-infusion.


Batman, have you fallen out of love with the PI? or was that a typo?


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## fatboyslim

Outlaw333 said:


> Batman, have you fallen out of love with the PI? or was that a typo?


No typo, just getting better pours without it. I actually find using maarten's technique (on the Classic) of opening the steam valve a bit to reduce brew water pressure, activating pump, then closing valve after a few seconds actually works better as a pre-infusion.

Just think its not worth the extra money. Steam control however is greatly recommended.


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## maxscan

Thanks for the heads up - I'd never come across the concept of pre-infusion - I tend to favour a fairly hard tamp so I don't think I'm experiencing any channelling - do you think there's still a benefit from the steam valve technique you mentioned even with a harder tamp?

Interesting about the boiler size too - I've wondered about where to go next - obviously a PID is a lot cheaper than a new machine... I tend to drink a couple of espressos a day but that's about it, except on weekends when the missus likes a coffee too or we have friends round - does a bigger boiler help with single / double shots or is it mainly capacity when you're making a lot of drinks consecutively?


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## fatboyslim

This is long overdue and is also the last chance since I'm off loading my PID to maxscan.

Here are some pictures of my own installation. Note the great condition of my internals









This is the RTD Sensor that connects to the bottom of the boiler instead of the brew thermometer. This connects straight into the back of the PID controller










Next up is the steam control connectors which totally replace the originals.










This is the Solid State Relay as well as the power connector piggyback.


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## fatboyslim

Finally an overview of the wonderful mess of wires inside my machine.










Sorry this isn't a much insightful write up but the Auber instructions really are sufficient for even the complete novice electrical engineer.

I also have caught a severe dose of upgraditis and so my thoughts are focused on other things. Would still recommend the PID though as a good bridge between buying a new machine and using the stock thermostat.

Thermal stability does improve, as does brew water temperature consistency. It also looks super cool in blue


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## truecksuk

Heya Fatboyslim, I remember reading an article on this quite some time ago on how to fit a PID on the cheap.

Take a look- I wonder whether this system is as good as yours?

Gaggia PID fitting Guide


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## lookseehear

Wow! A pid for around £35 is amazing, maybe I'll look into this more when my exams are over.


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## fatboyslim

Most of the components look the similar and I too read that article, concluding that he'd bought most if not the whole lot from Auber (thus not doing it cheaply).

It is possible to make a PID cheaply but results/effectiveness aren't guaranteed.

The Auber one comes specially calibrated for the Gaggia. Admittedly if you knew what you were doing you could buy a stock PID controller from Auber and set it you yourself and save £££££.


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## tribs

I have been looking into the DIY PID for a while, before I got my Classic even. I found a source for the parts and I am going to be working on it soon. Will let you know the details.


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## truecksuk

Tribs. Look forward to it. Fatboy would you say that this pid would not fit the bill for a classic.if not then how would we configure it to do so?


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## fatboyslim

truecksuk said:


> Tribs. Look forward to it. Fatboy would you say that this pid would not fit the bill for a classic.if not then how would we configure it to do so?


In the end its just a pretty simple piece of electronic kit. I would say the key points are that the thermocouple is the right size to get deep enough into the thermostat recess in order to give more accurate readings, and that the PID is calibrated properly.


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## ronipoon

I recently retrofit a PID to my Gaggia Twin which has the same boiler as the classic, however my modification went a bit further by installing a waterproof thermocouple inside the boiler and reading the water temperature directly. I noticed a drop of 6 degree c in temperature OF THE WATER WITHIN THE BOILER during a 25 seconds 60ml shot. One thing i cannot measure with my current setup is that i cannot measure the water temp coming from the grouphead, but a falling temperature profile is most definately guaranteed. I am still fiddling with the setup and may come up with a flatter temperature profile n share with u guys. All I can say is that whichever brand PID controller you r using, u will at least have a falling temperature profile which is due to the heating element of the boiler not heating the incoming cold water from the water tank quick enough to the brewing temperature.


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## lookseehear

I just ordered one of these for my classic - not sure how good it will be but a bit of fun anyway!


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## tribs

That's the kit I have ordered, but from Hong Kong so its on the slow boat.

ronipoon, the PID is never going to compensate for that rush of cold water, it would need to have fired the elements several seconds BEFORE the pump. It doesn't know when the pump is going to start. You could give it a helping hand by hitting the steam switch for several seconds before you start the shot.

Personally, I'd treat it more like a heat exchanger. I'd use the standard t-stat position for the thermocouple so its trying to keep the boiler at a stable temp (rather than the water in it). I would keep the temperature of the boiler so that when stable the water inside would be much too hot for a shot. Then before I pull a shot I would flush to cool the water in the boiler. Then the thermal mass of the boiler will keep the temp up as you pull the shot.


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## lookseehear

Has yours arrived yet tribs? I 'installed' mine tonight. I'm not sure its quite right at the moment though! Thanks to Rhys who sent me the PDF installation guide. More specifically for the Auber but was definitely a big help.

It powers on when I turn the machine on and is at least working (can navigate menus fine etc). One problem is that when I first switched it on it was reading the temp as over 100 degrees. If I switch the steam switch on it shows the temp go up - when the boiler switches off the pid reads 205!

I've left it for tonight but I'm pleased I haven't blown anything up yet and that it seems to be functional. I'm impressed with the quality for £35! I need to double check the wiring on the pid/ssd but I'm optimistic I'll get it working without too much stress.


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## Jez W

It looks like the temperature is being measured in Fahrenheit rather than Celsius which explain the high numbers. Does anyone know how easy it is to programme these pid to do pre-infusion?


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## lookseehear

That was my first thought but there doesn't seem to be a setting to change it! You can't preinfuse with this pid - you would need an auber.


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## lookseehear

It's working!










I had mis read the wiring diagram on the pid and shorted two pins that didn't need to be. Taking that wire out meant that the pid is now reading the temp properly from the thermocouple.

I let it do the tuning thing for a while (at which point it went up to 130 degrees for a bit!) then restarting it and setting to 95 and flushing some water through and it seemed quite happy between 94.5 and 95.5.

Now that I know it works I'm going to buy some better connectors and some thicker wire for the connection between the ssr and the boiler.

Haven't pulled a shot yet as it isn't reassembled properly yet but looking forwards to it!


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## tribs

Fantastic!

Did the stock thermocouple fit the old t-stat thread?

Mine is due any time but off on hols tomorrow.


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## lookseehear

No it doesn't unfortunately. I decided to go full throttle and drilled/tapped a new thread in the hole to accommodate the thermocouple. Give me a shout if you need a hand when it arrives. I felt like I was shooting in the dark a little but very pleased with it in the end.


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## fatboyslim

Good job Luke, DIY PIDing is beyond me. You will recall I told you it was fun to install, I trust this has all been fun?


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## lookseehear

It was sort of fun - mainly when I realised that it was going to work and I hadn't made a big mess of anything!

Once I realised that I had got the connections right I went out and bought some better connectors, cable ties etc to make it permanent and tidy it up. I'm really pleased with the result:



















I then let the temp stabilise and upped it one degree at a time until it heard it start to splutter a bit and worked out that the offset for me was -5. Now set to 94 waiting for my shot in the morning!


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## Pedro083

I have done the same to my gaggia, though I chose to drill through a 4mm bolt and solder the thermocouple together again( I Know it should be welded) I found it makes a big difference and even with out steam control my steam is a lot better as I worked out the best temp to start steaming at that means the steam heater will stay on nearly through any sized pitcher.


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## lookseehear

My thermocouple was already mounted in a bolt which was far too big for the thermostat hole. I did think about cutting the end ofd and drilling through a new bolt but I dont have access to any soldering equipment so decided to make the boiler fit the bolt! I'm pretty happy with how secure everything is so I don't anticipate needing to go back to a thermostat at any point soon.

I still don't have a Silvia wand for my classic (wanted to fit a v3 wand so ordered from the US but it took 2 months with USPS then was returned to sender without attempting delivery!) so I'm using my gaggia factory to steam milk at the moment, but I can imagine that having the temp displayed would really help you know when to steam to 'ride the wave' while the heater is on.


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## sekiller

I'm planning to do the PID installation myself, already bought all components, I'm just waiting for the project box to fit it in.

One question though: do you guys use thermal paste for the bolt or just leave it as it is?

I'm still to find out whether the thermocouple will fit the t-stat hole or whether I'll need to do some drilling.


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## lookseehear

I put a healthy amount of thermal paste in the hole before I screwed the thermocouple in, not sure how much difference it makes but can't be a bad thing! My sticky Velcro 3m pad didn't stand up to the heat so I need a new way of mounting the pid!


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## sekiller

One more thing that's been puzzling me: does the hole go all the way through the hull of the boiler? If so, I'd need to look for food grade paste, otherwise regular computer thermal paste should work.


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## Pedro083

It's a heat sink so does not actually go into the water just the wall of the boiler, I filled it up with paste as the paste is to conduct the heat to the thermocouple as far as I believe


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## lookseehear

sekiller said:


> One more thing that's been puzzling me: does the hole go all the way through the hull of the boiler? If so, I'd need to look for food grade paste, otherwise regular computer thermal paste should work.


As Pedro said it doesn't go all the way through. I had some arctic silver knocking about so used that.


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## tribs

The PID has arrived! I just need to get the cables. I think I'll probably use a wire type thermocouple as I don't fancy tapping the boiler.

What results have you been getting since you installed the PID?


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## lookseehear

I'm really pleased with my results using the PID. It isn't about having the water a really precise temperature, more just having a consistent, repeatable starting temperature. You'll never get a flat or near flat temp profile with a little boiler like on the classic but I think it makes a huge difference when dialling in a coffee.


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## Outlaw333

What I have observed on my Silvia since having the PID installed is once the temperature has fully stabilised after around 40-45 minutes and I begin pulling shots, I am seeing a 1-2 degree temperature loss for a moment about 5 seconds into extraction but very quickly the PID is reading full target temperature again. The RTD is of course is positioned on top of the boiler, so while I haven't done any testing at the group yet, I would wager that she is pretty darn stable on output even when displaying that mid-way temperature fluctuation.

Anyway the point of what I was saying was, even on the Classic, i would expect the output to be a bit more stable than the reading you are getting on the PID. What I wouldn't do for a Scace 2! I would of course share it with all you guys!


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## lookseehear

Group buy? ;-)

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## truecksuk

one of you guys could make one?

Im glad you decided to buy one of these guys. I think I put that link up a few weeks ago. Anyhoo, I was wondering what both numbers mean, ie. What does the top number stand for on the PID and bottm???


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## sekiller

finally I have all components at home, I'm little unsure about the whole wiring. Anyone has a wiring diagram of ideally detailed pictures of the whole installation.

It's high voltage after all, I'm not sure sure when it comes to wiring.


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## tribs

Below is a link to the Auber instructions. Just follow them. It evens lists the wires and connectors to use.

http://up.picr.de/3043530.pdf

I wired mine up over the weekend. I have to say I am very pleased with it. One thing I did differently though is not to use the supplied thermocouple. I used one of these wiretype thermocouples. It reacts far quicker because it is so small. I also found that the standard thermostat housing was too close to one of the heating elements. The temp would go up quickly as soon as the element was fired and drop equally fast as soon as the element was switched off. This might not be as noticeable with a slower reacting thermocouple. Basically, it was measuring the temperature of the element so I moved the thermocouple to the rear of the boiler and stuck it on at the bottom where it meets the group which is as far as you can get from the heating elements. I'm getting great results from this position.


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## lookseehear

How did you attach it to the boiler? I might call past maplin and pick one of those up too.

Also - did you see what the ambient temperature of your pid was - mine didn't seem right. With the offset sorted it doesn't really matter but I'd be interested to know if yours is the same.


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## tribs

Blu tack:exit:

I have my offset set at +6 but I didn't calibrate it directly. I just adjusted to match the brew water temp (as best I can measure it) and it was +3 and then I fine tuned to taste, but I might adjust again.

I measure my brew water temp by sticking another probe (in this case the one that came with the PID) inside the stock portafilter. I have to remove the spout with this probe. The clever part though is to use a pressurised basket to reduce the flow rate to that more resembling pulling a shot. Still I reckon there could be a couple of degrees lost so I fine tuned by taste from there. BTW I calibrated the brew temp probe with boiling water.

The Classic actually appears to do quite a good job of maintaining a stable temp during a shot, judging by measuring the brew temp in this way, although the pressurised basket still flows quite a bit quicker than most of us pull our shots, I reckon.


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## lookseehear

Ooh I'd be careful with the blu-tac. I used it to stick a probe to the group head of my lever machine and after a week or so it fell off. I would imagine if the probe falls off your boiler then it could burn out the boiler.

I might do a bit more calibration with mine although I'm quite happy with it at the moment.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## tribs

I'll keep an eye on it, but its been on there a couple of months already (without the PID, just monitoring boiler temps for surfing). There is a lip at the bottom that it rests on so it doesn't have the force of gravity dragging it off.

That's part of the reason I didn't use the original thermostat location. I could see immediately that where I had the TC positioned pre-PID was a much, much better location. There is far too much interference from the heating elements in the thermostat housing. Get a wire TC, some blu-tac







and have a play around. I think you'll find a huge improvement. If you can think of a better way of attaching the TC, let me know.


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## sekiller

I also have K-type thermoclouple, that I'd like to use. I'm finding that getting it into the thermostat hole might be a bit tricky, as the therocouple came in wrong size thread.

I'm not sure if I can get Blu tack here in slovakia. So what qualities should I look for when searching for good tape to use?


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## chrisalmond

Hi all,

I am really looking into installing a PID into my classic, and all the info in this forums is great. Looking on ebay PIDs are now available from china for as low as £15. The big problem I see is coupling the thermostat for the PID, is there a way of using the thermostat that is already in the machine, or does anybody know the tread type, i presume it is metric but am not sure what size.

Another question, I am not that keen on mounting my PID on the outside of my machine, so do you think there in enough space to mount it in the case???

Many thanks

Chris


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## rodabod

ronipoon said:


> I recently retrofit a PID to my Gaggia Twin which has the same boiler as the classic, however my modification went a bit further by installing a waterproof thermocouple inside the boiler and reading the water temperature directly. I noticed a drop of 6 degree c in temperature OF THE WATER WITHIN THE BOILER during a 25 seconds 60ml shot. One thing i cannot measure with my current setup is that i cannot measure the water temp coming from the grouphead, but a falling temperature profile is most definately guaranteed. I am still fiddling with the setup and may come up with a flatter temperature profile n share with u guys. All I can say is that whichever brand PID controller you r using, u will at least have a falling temperature profile which is due to the heating element of the boiler not heating the incoming cold water from the water tank quick enough to the brewing temperature.


This is probably the main reason for me not fitting a PID, which is that it's hard to get it to measure the water temperature directly, rather than the boiler tank.

At the moment I'm still brewing at around ten seconds after the "brew ready" light has lit, though I wonder if I'd get better results if I used a PID which kicked the boiler into action during the shot.


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## Achronite

Does anyone know if the PID/SSR combo mentioned earlier in this thread (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320869323753) can also be used for steam control?

I found some instructions using the alarm function on the Auber SYL-1512 PID (http://www.skenedesign.com/Silvia/ &


http://imgur.com/G48oU

) to do this (I have a Gaggia Classic).


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## tribs

Achronite said:


> Does anyone know if the PID/SSR combo mentioned earlier in this thread (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320869323753) can also be used for steam control?
> 
> I found some instructions using the alarm function on the Auber SYL-1512 PID (http://www.skenedesign.com/Silvia/ &
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/G48oU
> 
> ) to do this (I have a Gaggia Classic).


The PID has an alarm function, so yes. You just need to step down the power from the steam switch, run it through the alarm circuit on the PID to the SSR with a couple of diodes. It's not worth doing though, IMO. I rarely have the steam thermostat cut the elements, unless I screw up. The PID temp display makes it a doddle to steam surf. Switch steam, wait for temp to hit 100C, purge wand and start steaming.

If your steam thermostat ran too cool though, and you had the bits already, then why not, I suppose.


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## bronc

Well, I just ordered the Sestos PID + 25A SSR, the K-type wire thermocouple, a crimping tool kit and a pack of Sugru which I'll use to attach the thermocouple to the lower lip of the boiler. It will probably take a week or two until they get to Bulgaria but I'll keep you posted!


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## Savo

bronc said:


> Well, I just ordered the Sestos PID + 25A SSR, the K-type wire thermocouple, a crimping tool kit and a pack of Sugru which I'll use to attach the thermocouple to the lower lip of the boiler. It will probably take a week or two until they get to Bulgaria but I'll keep you posted!


How did you get on then? id love to have a go at this myself.

Would this work at only £12.99?


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## bronc

I will be installing it after a couple of months as I'm away from home. The PID which I'll be using is this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Shipping-Digital-PID-temperature-controler-SSR-K-Sensor-thermostats-/320869323753?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item4ab54d53e9 Not sure if the one which you've linked will work.


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## Chipstix

Interesting to read this thread - just registered so I can see the pictures! Am considering the Auber system for my classic. Bizarrely the missus suggested it (not normally known for promoting the spending of money) but I think she recognises it could take our trusty Classic to the next level (already have OPV mod done, plus Silvio wand retrofit).

Chipstix


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## fatboyslim

Oops! I linked the pics from Dropbox but have deleted them from the folder. I can post them again if you need.


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## bronc

Please do.


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## fatboyslim

As requested, now attached pictures to this thread so they won't disappear.









































Not the greatest photography work but hopefully this shows enough. The instructions from Auber were pretty darn good. I also labelled each wire and connector so I didn't reconnect the front panel incorrectly.


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## c_squared

bronc said:


> I will be installing it after a couple of months as I'm away from home. The PID which I'll be using is this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-Shipping-Digital-PID-temperature-controler-SSR-K-Sensor-thermostats-/320869323753?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item4ab54d53e9 Not sure if the one which you've linked will work.


Did you fit this pid bronc? It strikes me as being very good value. If you did fit it, was it easy to fit and does it work?


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> Did you fit this pid bronc? It strikes me as being very good value. If you did fit it, was it easy to fit and does it work?


He bought an Auber by the look of it.

I bought a sestos pid though and I'll be fitting it along with a preheat coil within the month.

EDIT

My bad, I didn't realise bronc was not OP.

I bought the pid listed too though.


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## c_squared

I'd be interested in hearing how the fitting and performance is. Seems like a great price


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> I'd be interested in hearing how the fitting and performance is. Seems like a great price


I think it will be quite easy.

I bought a second SSD for alarm function steam.


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## c_squared

I've never attempted anything like this before so would be seriously lacking in confidence or even knowledge of where to start. I've only briefly looked into the pid that you've got but the steam alarm would be a useful function.


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> I've never attempted anything like this before so would be seriously lacking in confidence or even knowledge of where to start. I've only briefly looked into the pid that you've got but the steam alarm would be a useful function.


When I install it ill be sure to take photos of the whole operation.

Did you mod any other things?


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## c_squared

Just the steam wand but I've only had the classic for a couple of months. I got it second hand so had to replace the steam valve as well. It's the electrics and wiring that I would be clueless over. Photos would be great!

I'm planning on doing the opv mod as well, the pid would round it all off nicely.

What mods have you done?


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> Just the steam wand but I've only had the classic for a couple of months. I got it second hand so had to replace the steam valve as well. It's the electrics and wiring that I would be clueless over. Photos would be great!


Ok, will do.

I'm going to do the valve too.


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## c_squared

Kyle548 said:


> Ok, will do.
> 
> I'm going to do the valve too.


The valve was easy enough to change, it was a bit fiddly to get it out but not to bad. I got it off another forum member, gaggiamanualservice (mark). Couldn't have asked for a better service, the part came quickly and there were instructions printed on a label for easy reference. I thought that was a nice wee touch!


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> The valve was easy enough to change, it was a bit fiddly to get it out but not to bad. I got it off another forum member, gaggiamanualservice (mark). Couldn't have asked for a better service, the part came quickly and there were instructions printed on a label for easy reference. I thought that was a nice wee touch!


Yes, I know how to replace it.

The Classic is incredibly user friendly when it comes to user servicing.

How much was the valve? I didn't buy it yet, so if I can get a good price on it.....

Did the valve work?

No leaks?


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## c_squared

Kyle548 said:


> Yes, I know how to replace it.
> 
> The Classic is incredibly user friendly when it comes to user servicing.
> 
> How much was the valve? I didn't buy it yet, so if I can get a good price on it.....
> 
> Did the valve work?
> 
> No leaks?


From memory the valve was about £37 delivered and had the 'o ring' needed as part of this.

Before I changed the valve I was getting drips and spitting from the steam wand as the machine heated up. Also when I purged the wand ready for steaming there was a steady puffing of steam that got more vigorous as it reached steaming temp. The new unit fixed all those issues. No drips, leaks or any other associated problems.


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> From memory the valve was about £37 delivered and had the 'o ring' needed as part of this.
> 
> Before I changed the valve I was getting drips and spitting from the steam wand as the machine heated up. Also when I purged the wand ready for steaming there was a steady puffing of steam that got more vigorous as it reached steaming temp. The new unit fixed all those issues. No drips, leaks or any other associated problems.


You described my problem exactly.

Think ill go ahead and get a new unit v


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## c_squared

Kyle548 said:


> You described my problem exactly.
> 
> Think ill go ahead and get a new unit v


I figured it wasn't a major issue, I was just sitting a mug under the wand at all times, however I'm much happier now that it's fixed.

I look forward to hearing/seeing photos of the pid installation and seeing if its something I think I could achieve!


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> I figured it wasn't a major issue, I was just sitting a mug under the wand at all times, however I'm much happier now that it's fixed.


It's not that, just I'm modding it, so may as well go the whole way.

I'm going to pid steam too, so it will be annoying if it p***** steam out all the time.


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## c_squared

Kyle548 said:


> It's not that, just I'm modding it, so may as well go the whole way.
> 
> I'm going to pid steam too, so it will be annoying if it p***** steam out all the time.


I agree, better to do the complete job than a half measure. Although, does that mean I should act up and install a PID to make sure I've rounded off the whole job?


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## Kyle548

c_squared said:


> I agree, better to do the complete job than a half measure. Although, does that mean I should act up and install a PID to make sure I've rounded off the whole job?


There is a difference between fixing and adding though.

In the case of fixing the machine, the objective is just to return to a state of working, the the case of addition, the objective is to add something.

That means it doesn't make sense to skip the fixing stage.

I mean, if you are going to do a job, especially with something you love, do it right.

As far as you fitting a pid, what would the harm be.









For me it's a fun little project, I'm doing it more for me than for coffee, although I expect repeatability to improve rather than shot quality.

When I do the whole mod, including steam, opv and preheat ill post a thread with pictures and a guide.

From there you can decide if you want to commit to any part of it.

The biggest problem is sourcing the correct parts and diagrams, but as I'll include them in my guide most of the work will be installing it.

It won't be for a month as my pid is on the slow boat though and due for September.

Cost for the pid and parts is about 40-50£, the preheat about the same again.


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## Neill

Kyle548 said:


> There is a difference between fixing and adding though.
> 
> In the case of fixing the machine, the objective is just to return to a state of working, the the case of addition, the objective is to add something.
> 
> That means it doesn't make sense to skip the fixing stage.
> 
> I mean, if you are going to do a job, especially with something you love, do it right.
> 
> As far as you fitting a pid, what would the harm be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me it's a fun little project, I'm doing it more for me than for coffee, although I expect repeatability to improve rather than shot quality.
> 
> When I do the whole mod, including steam, opv and preheat ill post a thread with pictures and a guide.
> 
> From there you can decide if you want to commit to any part of it.
> 
> The biggest problem is sourcing the correct parts and diagrams, but as I'll include them in my guide most of the work will be installing it.
> 
> It won't be for a month as my pid is on the slow boat though and due for September.
> 
> Cost for the pid and parts is about 40-50£, the preheat about the same again.


Interested in seeing the pre heat. Are you going for copper pipe wrapped around the boiler?


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## Kyle548

Neill said:


> Interested in seeing the pre heat. Are you going for copper pipe wrapped around the boiler?


Yes, as I can't machine anything and it just seams like a headache sealing a HX chamber. Pun intended.


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## bronc

c_squared said:


> Did you fit this pid bronc? It strikes me as being very good value. If you did fit it, was it easy to fit and does it work?


I'll be fitting it over the weekend. I'll try to take a couple of pictures but I'm not sure I'll have a camera to use.


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## bronc

Guys, is there a need to calibrate the thermocouple and if yes, how should I do this? Sorry for double-posting but I'll be installing the PID over the weekend and I won't have Internet access at my other place.


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## cruisecoffee

Couldn't see it


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## fg230

i thin i will doing this upgrade on my classic , very interesting post


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## majnu

Being new to this what is the difference between the Auber, Sestos, Chinese knock offs and osPIDs? I want to also install one of these to my Classic but haven't the foggiest what I should go for and why there is as much as £100 price difference in those pids mentioned.

I might as well go the whole hog but what do they offer besides temp control? I read about steam and pre infusion is that something that the cheaper Sestos includes?

Cheers


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## Beanben

fatboyslim said:


> No typo, just getting better pours without it. I actually find using maarten's technique (on the Classic) of opening the steam valve a bit to reduce brew water pressure, activating pump, then closing valve after a few seconds actually works better as a pre-infusion.
> 
> Just think its not worth the extra money. Steam control however is greatly recommended.


where can I find the post that explains martens technique??

Many thanks

ben


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