# Gaggia Classic vs Ascaso Uno PID, which one to keep?



## J_H (Sep 30, 2019)

So my latest trip to Italy forced me to ditch my modded Delonghi and get a real espresso capable grinder and machine. Against the original plans I actually ended up having two second hand machines because they were so cheap, and now I'm stuck..

Gaggia classic pre 2015 or Ascaso Steel Uno Prof PID (v2 with a brass boiler). I can't decide which one to go with or sell..

My issue is that I'm able to quite consistently pull a great shot with the Gaggia, but the Ascaso (which should be on the next level because of the PID) feels VERY sensitive and it's truly hard to get anything smooth out of it. I would definitely like to keep the Ascaso on the paper as it has more potential, but the Gaggia still seems to make better coffee every time! I'm confused..

Turns out that channeling is most likely the main problem with the Ascaso and I can't get rid of it no matter what magics I try. At the same time the Gaggia doesn't seem to care much about the technique and always gives at least way smoother and less bitter result, with minor or almost zero channeling.

So I tried to study the problem by using the Gaggia filter basket with the Ascaso and it clearly made the machine more forgiving, resulting a smoother shot with more body. But the channeling and bitterness was still there, even though the shot is way more enjoyable that way compared to the Ascaso oem basket which I can't handle at all. They clearly have some very different hole pattern and surface area which probably affects the flow quite drastically. Also seems that the machines have different diameter shower screens, Gaggia having wider than the Ascaso.

Some additional information:

Only double baskets used.

Tamper: Motta 58mm (fits Ascaso 100%, a tad too small for the Gaggia basket which seemingly has no negative effect)

Coffee: 10 days old 100% arabica from the local roaster. Tried with some other beans as well without success.

Grinder: Brand new Lelit PL43, conical burrs, stepless adjuster. At least Gaggia likes it.

The tricks I've tried: Different tamping, grind setting, dosing (I don't have a scale yet), distribution techniques, brew temperatures... Nothing seems to help with the Ascaso. The machine is also very clean and scale is usually not an issue here in Finland. I took the group head apart and everything was nice and clean there.

Brew pressure: both machines should have the factory settings, which probably means that Gaggia has higher (too high) pressure by default. The difference can be seen when brewing.

Both machines produce very nice colorful crema with "tiger spots". However the taste and smell of the shot is very different. I can't believe that the Ascaso would be that bad really and quite sure I just have to learn the sweet spot for it. Would be definitely interesting to hear some opinions or experiences about these two compared to each other, and if it's normal for the Ascaso to be that sensitive or is there something wrong with my machine.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

It's a fact the basket used changes the flavour of the coffee. I've been mucking around with a traditional Italian coffee bean just for poops and giggles, and it tastes horrid through a precision basket. However a cheap non precision basket 'rounds' off the rough edges whereas the precision highlights any flaws.

All I can think of with your Ascaso is that the temperature or pressure is off in someway. Have you checked them? I don't know if the Ascaso has an OPV and is it adjustable? The chances are your Gaggia has been set up to 9 bar. If the Ascaso does not have this facility or it's set higher then this could explain the bitterness. Does it have a pressure gauge?


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## J_H (Sep 30, 2019)

This is the old PID model so it doesn't have a boiler pressure gauge. I'll probably install one at some point though.

But you are right, the pressure was WAY off by default.. I built a tester and measured both machines from the portafilters. Too bad the gauge I was able to find reads only maximum 11 bar but the pointer actually moved way over the numbers before hitting the limiters, so I still got some clue about the amount of overpressure. It was likely more than 14bar on the Ascaso before the pointer hit the limit and I had to stop, and a bit less on the Gaggia which makes sense.. Now I actually found a thread where the same problem was discussed too so it's quite obvious that my Ascaso had way too tight OPV.

Luckily it is an adjustable OPV (with a very awkward plastic piston), however the adjustment didn't allow enough range so I had to shorten the spring to get it close to 10bar on the gauge. But man what a difference it made.. It's like a different machine now and I can actually pull some really creamy shots using the Ascaso basket! Also bought a scale at the same time so that probably added some improvement too, but clearly the pressure was the biggest issue.

The gaggia didn't seem to improve that much, but I think it's because of the Gaggia oem basket that softens the error as said.

I think I'm going to keep the both machines for awhile to learn more about their characteristics. Why not since the Gaggia cost only 60€! What a beautiful machines.


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