# Single Cup Microfoaming



## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

This may sound a silly question ... But to make a single flat white how much milk do people add to their milk jug?

To put this in perspective I've recently upgraded to a rocket. I've previously succeeded (to an extent) with my latte art with both a mod'd gaggia and a pavoni - but I'm really struggling with the Rocket. I might as well just be putting my milk in the micro... The power increase is I think causing issues. I'm using a 2 hole tip.

So I have some beautiful acme cups - both flat white (150ml) and cap (200ml). I have a rattleware 300ml jug and an unfortunate resistance to wastage. With about 30ml of black gold, simple maths suggest 120-170ml of milk - ignoring bubble volume-- so the jug about half full ish. Problem I run into is the milk heats very very quickly (my thermometer now appears to lag so much it's redundant) and it's hard to get a swirl going with the steam not seemingly having sufficient milk depth to not be screaming against the jug bottom.

so how do people do it?

should I ?

a) open the valve less

b) get a bigger or smaller jug

c) take the pain of adding more milk to dispose of soon after (ahh the pennies)

d) stop whinging and just practice more

e) buy an aerocinno (!)


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Get a smaller jug Delfi. I have an L1 and it steams very well, it has 4 x 1mm holes on the steam tip.My jug came from Cream Supplies and it is made by Motta... At the halfway mark (where the profile changes) I have just weighed water in it and it holds 150mls/gms. If you practice perhaps by opening the tap a little less and then gradually you will have no problem on full power.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I've got the rattleware 340ml jug and surprised you get much wasteage, although I only use milk if friends / family want it so not proficient.

You're only filling to the very beginning of the spout right?

Try a different steam tip if you can, I use a 2 hole and it seems about right.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

350ml jug - filled half way between base and beginning of spout. Have a hunch there is a minimum amount of milk needed for effective foaming no matter how small the jug. Foaming a bit more than you actually need seems to make texturing easier.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

A. Always have the steam on fully. No exceptions.

B. More practice with the jug you have.

C. Steam a bit more milk than you need.

D. Absolutely, but heed point C.

E. ... I am dumbfounded with this suggestion.


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## Johnny Vertex (Jul 9, 2014)

I use one of these....

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/barista-tools-accessories/utensils/pitchers/espro-toroid-pitcher-12oz.html

Fully open steam valve on me Rocket... I fill mine up to the bottom of the word Toroid, it does have marker lines inside...works a treat for 1...


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Johnny Vertex said:


> I use one of these....
> 
> http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/barista-tools-accessories/utensils/pitchers/espro-toroid-pitcher-12oz.html
> 
> Fully open steam valve on me Rocket... I fill mine up to the bottom of the word Toroid, it does have marker lines inside...works a treat for 1...


Hi Johnny,

What does 12 oz mean? Does it mean to the top of the jug, or the beginning of the spout (or just over halfway)? My Motta holds just enough steamed milk for a single 190ml/6oz Ancap cup, which represents an almost extreme parsimony with the measure...

I later discovered that it is much easier to stretch milk in bigger jugs too, having started with such a small one.

ooh er missus!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I've always assumed (hoped) that having a really good machine would help with the steaming. I've only got a Classic and while I've been making what looks like good milk with it, somehow I can't get a decent pour and I've thought that if I got a swanky machine like a Rocket it would all be easier. Seems like even so there's another learning curve to overcome.

If you start with a small one, bigger jugs will stretch it Mr Gimlet. Fnarr fnarr!

Sorry, just came over all Viz-like. As you were.


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Block one of the holes with a toothpick to slow down the steaming, when you've got used to steaming with one hole remove the piece of toothpick

and try with 2 holes again.


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## Johnny Vertex (Jul 9, 2014)

12 fluid oz is about 340 ml... I think it means to the top of the jug... possibly.. I will measure it tomorrow...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That's the total capacity. On the Motta and the milky pitch enough milk for a flat white comes maybe 1-2cm up past the base of the spout


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## gingerneil (Aug 21, 2014)

what was your approach with the Classic ? I seem to run out of steam before I can get a decent swirl going...


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Personally, I've found the 20oz Toroid makes it a piece of cake to make lovely silky milk with the Classic. Trying the much smaller rattleware jug I bought, half filled, I really struggled to make it nice and silky - however I found by angling the jug a little and being really careful with the (silvia) wand placement I get almost as good microfoam but it has taken a lot of practise! I'm guessing that a bigger volume of milk makes it easier because the power is distributed? Ergo, a much more powerful steam wand a-la your Rocket will make things more difficult - so I suppose it's practise practise practise. Or get a bigger jug, and make sure you always have company when you're making drinks! No waste and more social!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Steaming small amounts of work on powerful machines requires good technique and you to work quickly


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Just keep practising.

I only steam 3-4oz of milk on my machine with a four hole tip. Its fast ( 10-15 seconds til temp ) but it is eminently doable to make nice silky microfoam with a small jug and small qty of milk. Practise and take advantage of your machines boiler size....


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

its just practice you need... with a machine that powerful and a jug that small you need to work very very quickly.

I have a 12oz rattleware pitcher, and i only ever make flat whites for myself.

I fill it about 1cm below the start of the spout, as I don't see the point in wasting milk. I open up the steam all the way, quickly get the positioning right so that i get some air chirps and start getting a little expansion on milk volume, and then within a few seconds, i drop the tip into the milk a little more and get the swirl going to incorporate the air into the milk.

This all takes place in about 10-15 seconds, so you need to work and think quickly. It gets easier, just keep at it


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

Hoffmonkey said:


> Personally, I've found the 20oz Toroid makes it a piece of cake to make lovely silky milk with the Classic. Trying the much smaller rattleware jug I bought, half filled, I really struggled to make it nice and silky


On the Classic I've found that it's much easier to steam milk with a larger jug like 16oz and produce perfect microfoam than I could with a 12oz.

Not to say that I couldn't get decent microfoam with the 12oz jug its just that the results would be inconsistent - I went for a time producing over-aerated milk and then a period of under-aerated milk.

A potential problem with the Classic and a small pitcher is that the steam is hot and with the Silvia wand being single-tipped is it doesn't allow you to spend much time getting little sips of air in before the milk reaches temperature, also I'd find that if I'd introduced too much air at the start and caused a lot of turbulence most definitely would I end up with a cloud in the pitcher!

I've never been on a Rocket but my experiences with a powerful commercial machine have been this:

Have the tip submerged halfway under the surface of the milk > Full power steam with a momentary snort > submerge deeper then get straight into the spin with tip aimed at 3 o'clock/ 9 o'clock.

Steaming milk to perfection is an art in itself, nevermind the latté squiggles!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I literally mix air for about the first 2-3 seconds, which is almost more the result of putting that much steam power in a small space, then i get straight on with the swirl.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Steaming small amounts of work on powerful machines requires good technique and you to work quickly


As jeebsy said, practice on a powerful machine is the best way to learn to work quickly. I can steam 5oz milk in about 6/7 seconds and I still prefer to use a tiny bit more just so I am guaranteed to get the consistent quality I want. An extra second or so really does help.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Just put the three hole tip on my Brewtus and steamed a wee jug. Total disaster. Think I"ll stick with the single.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Jeebsy I use the two hole tip. At first I thought it was too much, but after getting used to the one hole tip, I wanted more. Now the two hole tip is ideal and I can nail my milk every time. I can recommend the two hole tip highly.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I've got a one or a three! No two. The one is great but slow. If i was doing milk for more than one drink at a time i'd practice with the three but no point


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I find the two hole ideal for single drinks. The one hole just felt too slow after I'd gotten used to it

Get yourself a hold of one







they are pretty cheap. I'm sure you'd be able to move the three hole on easily enough


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## gingerneil (Aug 21, 2014)

I did some experimenting last night, and found that I really needed to do the milk in two stages on my classic. Frothing first, then allowing the steam light to come back on again and the swirling. Without waiting for the steam light, I was running out of steam and wasn't getting enough swirl. Maybe I'm still frothing for too long...


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## dougie todd (Feb 4, 2014)

shrink said:


> Jeebsy I use the two hole tip. At first I thought it was too much, but after getting used to the one hole tip, I wanted more. Now the two hole tip is ideal and I can nail my milk every time. I can recommend the two hole tip highly.


I bought the 2 hole for when I get better with the single, I gave at whirl early on to see what it was like and my skilz did not allow for it! To practice over a couple of days I bought a big jug of milk when I was home last and it helped a good bit just, well worth the £1.50 investment. My daughter did end up drinking a lot of warmed semi foamed milk for a couple of nights and me and the missus had some great hot chocolate which they both loved







haha


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## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

Very informative post- thanks to all responders.

Adding more milk certainly improved things. The other thing I'm noticing is that with my previous machines I could get to good silky milk by simultaneously stretching and swirling right the way through the process (ie with the wand on the edge of the jug, angled to create the milk flow rotation). With the rocket- this is not so. Stretching happens uber quick with wand stuffed vertically at the mid point - and to my surprise no stretch occurs when I tried to flow the old process with wand at the side... In fairness this is largely how I've always seen the process described in clips etc but always differed empirically when I've used a gaggia and Europiccola.

As an aside .... I do wonder what a microfoamed hot chocolate is like....(or tea)!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Delfi said:


> I do wonder what a microfoamed hot chocolate is like....(or tea)!


Chocolate - Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Tea - Errrr just why? Although to be fair I did recently have some tea ice-cream and it was actually quite nice (despite my initial thoughts)


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

How would you even go about microfoaming tea?


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

I've had the exact same issue Delfi. I've mastered my classic and can get lovely microfoam no probs. recently purchased a fracino to use at the gym I've opened (having a small coffee shop in there).

Steaming milk with a 'proper' machine has got me stumped. A 1-2min process on my classic has now got to be crammed into 10secs. Absolute nightmare. Just starting from scratch and practicing as much as possible. Dare I say, I prefer my Classic ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What tip is on the fracino ( and which machine ) . I know for example some cherub owners swapped out one of the tips to help and there potentially a few to choose from....


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

It's a heavenly Boots. It's been banished to the garage while we finish renovations in the gym ready for it to be installed. From memory, I think it's a 4 hole tip, but I could be completely wrong. I spent a couple of weeks trying to master it, but have had to move it in to storage.

I've seen a few conflicting tutorial vids from people using commercial machines. Some getting a blast of air in for a couple of seconds and then plunging the tip down to spin the milk. Others who keep the tip at the surface throughout. Both appear to produce perfect milk.

When I was trying, I just couldn't get away from the old 'foam sat on liquid' chestnut. Can't work out if I need to put less air in and spend more time folding it in or what!?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Change the tip ...put up a thread asking what tips fracino users have for their machines ( there are a few to choose from ) ...


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