# Does the barista pro's thermojet make dual boilers less relevant?



## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

It is much cheaper that the DB. Is there any point paying the premium or is the micro-foam just as good?


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

I haven't used this machine so not sure if the thermojet can match the power of a dual boiler. It would be an achievement if it could.

Beyond that the dual boiler will also be able to brew and steam at the same time.
It will have better temperature stability. The dual boiler also has a heated group head which is really good. Finally the grinders on the Sages are not highly regarded.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

M_H_S said:


> I haven't used this machine so not sure if the thermojet can match the power of a dual boiler. It would be an achievement if it could.
> 
> Beyond that the dual boiler will also be able to brew and steam at the same time.
> It will have better temperature stability. The dual boiler also has a heated group head which is really good. Finally the grinders on the Sages are not highly regarded.
> ...


 i See. if that is the case, I am better off buying a dual temp pro sans grinder in that case. I can't justify spending 4 times this amount for a second boiler.

Any suggestions for a good mid-priced grinder to go with the DTP?


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> i See. if that is the case, I am better off buying a dual temp pro sans grinder in that case. I can't justify spending 4 times this amount for a second boiler.
> 
> Any suggestions for a good mid-priced grinder to go with the DTP?


 What's your definition of mid priced? As you'll find the figure varies wildly from person to person


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Yeah I don't think DB and Barista Pro are comparable. The former has a 58mm portafilter (more accessories/baskets available), heated group and hopefully a bit quieter than a thermocoil.

DTP will most likely yield similar results in the cup to be honest. You can grab them quite cheap if you get a second hand/refurbished one. That leaves a ton of cash for a grinder and some accessories (scales, knock box, nicer tamper, etc).

In terms of grinders, you won't go wrong with Eureka or Ceado range. It really depends on what's mid-budget!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How many people actually steam and pull a shot at the same time I wonder ?

DB used to have some flexibility on how long you could pre infuse for and altering pump pressure through some menus.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

PPapa said:


> Yeah I don't think DB and Barista Pro are comparable. The former has a 58mm portafilter (more accessories/baskets available), heated group and hopefully a bit quieter than a thermocoil.
> 
> DTP will most likely yield similar results in the cup to be honest. You can grab them quite cheap if you get a second hand/refurbished one. That leaves a ton of cash for a grinder and some accessories (scales, knock box, nicer tamper, etc).
> 
> In terms of grinders, you won't go wrong with Eureka or Ceado range. It really depends on what's mid-budget!


 Thanks for that. Which Eureka or Ceado are you thinking about? And are they materially better that the Sage Grinder Pro?

Niche looks like a nice piece of overpriced kit in my view... but I like the nonsensical approach to grinding.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Thanks for that. Which Eureka or Ceado are you thinking about? And are they materially better that the Sage Grinder Pro?
> 
> Niche looks like a nice piece of overpriced kit in my view... but I like the nonsensical approach to grinding.


 niche is more expensivrle but good quality the burrs on this are way superior than a sage or entry eurkea , suggest more research required here on this as unsure what your opinion is based on.

sage pro bottom end of grinders.

better grinder , better coffee


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> niche is more expensivrle but good quality the burrs on this are way superior than a sage or entry eurkea , suggest more research required here on this as unsure what your opinion is based on.
> 
> sage pro bottom end of grinders.
> 
> better grinder , better coffee


 Got you. Yes I am at the beginning of the journey here. Only consensus I am finding so far is on the DTP and am hoping that the milk frothing is up to par.

I was originally tempted by the BE and possibly the pro if it were to drop in price on black Friday, but many are advising for a non-sage grinder instead.

How shall I choose? is Eureka Mignon the way to go?


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

The grinder is the most important bit of kit you need to focus on. Everything depends on your budget.

You can get a used Sage Dual Boiler in eBay for £400 to £500.

Used Sage DTP - £170

Used Eureka Mignon - £220

Used medium to large high quality commercial grinder - £150 to £250

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

I have the DTP. It's a good started but for steaming multiple drinks can be a drag. 2 at a time is ok. If you can stretch to DB I would.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Thanks for that. Which Eureka or Ceado are you thinking about? And are they materially better that the Sage Grinder Pro?
> Niche looks like a nice piece of overpriced kit in my view... but I like the nonsensical approach to grinding.


Eureka Mignon, Atom, 65E, 75E...
Ceado E37, E37s...

Depends on your budget and needs. There's really no such grinder that's an overkill for a given machine.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

M_H_S said:


> The grinder is the most important bit of kit you need to focus on. Everything depends on your budget.
> 
> You can get a used Sage Dual Boiler in eBay for £400 to £500.
> 
> ...


 Yes OK. Happy to pay 200 for a new DTP (AO drops the price every now and then).

Where can I find used mignons besides ebay? Are they reliable when bought used? Is the Niche much better than the Eureka?


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

PPapa said:


> Eureka Mignon, Atom, 65E, 75E...
> Ceado E37, E37s...
> 
> Depends on your budget and needs. There's really no such grinder that's an overkill for a given machine.


 Got you. Time to choose. Is their an optimal price point for a grinder abovr which improvements become less noticiable? Say the infliction point of the grind performance curve....


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

M_H_S said:


> I have the DTP. It's a good started but for steaming multiple drinks can be a drag. 2 at a time is ok. If you can stretch to DB I would.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


 I am the only coffee drinker in the household.... How does thr DTP frothing wand perform?


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> How many people actually steam and pull a shot at the same time I wonder ?
> 
> DB used to have some flexibility on how long you could pre infuse for and altering pump pressure through some menus.


 Its more the time you have to wait between brewing, steaming and back again. Its not particularly long but it does become a bit of a faff when doing several drinks. Plus whilst the DTP can steam 2 drinks worth of milk at a time, but it'll struggle with a bigger jug. Thinking about it, I suspect a DB wouldn't actually be much quicker given the time to grind the beans and get more milk, but it feels frustrating and that's a good enough excuse to look at new toys


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I am the only coffee drinker in the household.... How does thr DTP frothing wand perform?


 Its spot on for a single drink's worth of milk, and the supplied jug is nice too.

If you can manage a DTP and a Niche you could be set for a good while... and the Niche will be good enough if (when) you fancy a bigger and better machine. John Lewis stock Sage gear and do a 5 year warranty on it (I think) or Lakeland do 3 years. I think both will price match. I'm sure you'll get better coffee with a DTP and Niche than with a Dual Boiler and Sage/Mignon type grinder.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Got you. Time to choose. Is their an optimal price point for a grinder abovr which improvements become less noticiable? Say the infliction point of the grind performance curve....


Anything under £150 (new) won't be good for espresso, the changes will be noticeable until you hit the higher end of big flat burrs (Ceado E37s, Eureka 75E...) and then you've got some titan class grinders.

Hard to tell to be honest, as improvements can be measured in the cup, workflow, noise, size, etc... some won't like the noise or messiness of EK43 (hard to work around 1300W motor), some might not like workflow of Mythos, some might want RPM adjustments and the looks of a Kafatek...

Starting out with a used grinder is probably the way to go as you can then sell it for similar price and keep upgrading until you're happy. That way you don't lose much money and it lets you try out different grinders.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

M_H_S said:


> I have the DTP. It's a good started but for steaming multiple drinks can be a drag. 2 at a time is ok. If you can stretch to DB I would.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Only if it doesn't sacrifice a choice of grinder...

Steaming on DTP is fine, just slow.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

pgarrish said:


> Its more the time you have to wait between brewing, steaming and back again. Its not particularly long but it does become a bit of a faff when doing several drinks. Plus whilst the DTP can steam 2 drinks worth of milk at a time, but it'll struggle with a bigger jug. Thinking about it, I suspect a DB wouldn't actually be much quicker given the time to grind the beans and get more milk, but it feels frustrating and that's a good enough excuse to look at new toys


 Got you but i still don't get the DB appeal. If I want a second boiler, I could add this next to a DTP:

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/dualit-cino-milk-steamer/cn452?vatToggle=incvat&gclid=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfvsBRD7ARIsAKuDvMNlWo_6Ws7ODrCosj1jFqNs2Wb-Bk-TA7SnM5nmnb4VkrvUjzWVCwEaAhrGEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PLA-_-1665274984-_-63901011506-_-CN452&cm_mmca1=go_1665274984_63901011506_321523756444_pla-599979232705_c_


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Got you but i still don't get the DB appeal. If I want a second boiler, I could add this next to a DTP:
> 
> https://www.nisbets.co.uk/dualit-cino-milk-steamer/cn452?vatToggle=incvat&gclid=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfvsBRD7ARIsAKuDvMNlWo_6Ws7ODrCosj1jFqNs2Wb-Bk-TA7SnM5nmnb4VkrvUjzWVCwEaAhrGEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PLA-_-1665274984-_-63901011506-_-CN452&cm_mmca1=go_1665274984_63901011506_321523756444_pla-599979232705_c_





pgarrish said:


> Its spot on for a single drink's worth of milk, and the supplied jug is nice too.
> 
> If you can manage a DTP and a Niche you could be set for a good while... and the Niche will be good enough if (when) you fancy a bigger and better machine. John Lewis stock Sage gear and do a 5 year warranty on it (I think) or Lakeland do 3 years. I think both will price match. I'm sure you'll get better coffee with a DTP and Niche than with a Dual Boiler and Sage/Mignon type grinder.


 Got you but i still don't get the DB appeal. If I want a second boiler, I could add this next to a DTP:

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/dualit-cino-milk-steamer/cn452?vatToggle=incvat&gclid=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrfvsBRD7ARIsAKuDvMNlWo_6Ws7ODrCosj1jFqNs2Wb-Bk-TA7SnM5nmnb4VkrvUjzWVCwEaAhrGEALw_wcB&cm_mmc=PLA-_-1665274984-_-63901011506-_-CN452&cm_mmca1=go_1665274984_63901011506_321523756444_pla-599979232705_c_


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

PPapa said:


> Only if it doesn't sacrifice a choice of grinder...
> 
> Steaming on DTP is fine, just slow.





PPapa said:


> Anything under £150 (new) won't be good for espresso, the changes will be noticeable until you hit the higher end of big flat burrs (Ceado E37s, Eureka 75E...) and then you've got some titan class grinders.
> 
> Hard to tell to be honest, as improvements can be measured in the cup, workflow, noise, size, etc... some won't like the noise or messiness of EK43 (hard to work around 1300W motor), some might not like workflow of Mythos, some might want RPM adjustments and the looks of a Kafatek...
> 
> Starting out with a used grinder is probably the way to go as you can then sell it for similar price and keep upgrading until you're happy. That way you don't lose much money and it lets you try out different grinders.


 Great advice. Where would the Niche or Baratza Forte sit on the curve, compared to the Eureak 75E?

And where to buy a used grinder from?


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

pgarrish said:


> Its spot on for a single drink's worth of milk, and the supplied jug is nice too.
> 
> If you can manage a DTP and a Niche you could be set for a good while... and the Niche will be good enough if (when) you fancy a bigger and better machine. John Lewis stock Sage gear and do a 5 year warranty on it (I think) or Lakeland do 3 years. I think both will price match. I'm sure you'll get better coffee with a DTP and Niche than with a Dual Boiler and Sage/Mignon type grinder.


 I think I am with you on this. DTP can be had new for £200 it seems. Does the Niche drop in price at all?


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

I have a BE and the milk is perfectly good once you get the technique.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

-Mac said:


> I have a BE and the milk is perfectly good once you get the technique.


 Are you happy with the built in grinder?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I think I am with you on this. DTP can be had new for £200 it seems. Does the Niche drop in price at all?


 only second hand ones .

look work out of single dosing work flow is important or not then be guided on where to go grinder wise. . pleny of second hand grinders out there will deliver great coffee , if you have the space and dont mind running with a clump of beans in the hopper.

if you want true single dosing and a grinder capable of brew methods also the niche is a good shout.

espresso onky, no space limitations etc , there are others to throw in the mix.


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

It's ok but I'm getting a Niche as soon as I can.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> only second hand ones .
> 
> look work out of single dosing work flow is important or not then be guided on where to go grinder wise. . pleny of second hand grinders out there will deliver great coffee , if you have the space and dont mind running with a clump of beans in the hopper.
> 
> ...


 No space limitations in the utility room.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

-Mac said:


> It's ok but I'm getting a Niche as soon as I can.


 have you considered the Baratza Forte?


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> have you considered the Baratza Forte?


 No, I'm sold on the Niche.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

-Mac said:


> No, I'm sold on the Niche.


 I am always wary when something has a cult following


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I am always wary when something has a cult following


 That's your prerogative. I went off reading many, many reviews.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I think I am with you on this. DTP can be had new for £200 it seems. Does the Niche drop in price at all?


 I rarely post these days, but I am afraid your post needs answered. A 1975 LAda Niva has 4 wheels, seats and an engine but cannot be compared to a 2019 car, the same with coffee machines. Whether you are using a 5k set up, or a £400 set up, without the basic skills sets required, you will produce nothing that is consistently drinkable, unless you are lucky. There is a reason why a Sage DB is 4 to 5 times the price of the lesser model you mention, At one time on here, the Sage DB was the darling of the forum as it actually can be a serious coffee machine, but the downside is or was reliability and the fact that they are simply not made to last. If you want to see one in 10 years time, visit a museum.

If you buy a basic machine buy a used Gaga Classic. Readily available, last forever and lots of modifications you can do if you search on here. Pair it with a Eureka Mignon that again, you can usually source on here. They last forever. They have small burrs but if you are on a budget needs be.

Others may howl, but I would not buy an entry level Sage grinder or coffee machine regardless of how much the relevant promotion will pay you to take one away


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I am always wary when something has a cult following


 youll get plenty of positive feedback as there are plenty of happy owners.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> I rarely post these days, but I am afraid your post needs answered. A 1975 LAda Niva has 4 wheels, seats and an engine but cannot be compared to a 2019 car, the same with coffee machines. Whether you are using a 5k set up, or a £400 set up, without the basic skills sets required, you will produce nothing that is consistently drinkable, unless you are lucky. There is a reason why a Sage DB is 4 to 5 times the price of the lesser model you mention, At one time on here, the Sage DB was the darling of the forum as it actually can be a serious coffee machine, but the downside is or was reliability and the fact that they are simply not made to last. If you want to see one in 10 years time, visit a museum.
> 
> If you buy a basic machine buy a used Gaga Classic. Readily available, last forever and lots of modifications you can do if you search on here. Pair it with a Eureka Mignon that again, you can usually source on here. They last forever. They have small burrs but if you are on a budget needs be.
> 
> Others may howl, but I would not buy an entry level Sage grinder or coffee machine regardless of how much the relevant promotion will pay you to take one away


 I used to own a lada niva. What a piece of shit that was. Replaced it with a wrangler.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> I rarely post these days, but I am afraid your post needs answered. A 1975 LAda Niva has 4 wheels, seats and an engine but cannot be compared to a 2019 car, the same with coffee machines. Whether you are using a 5k set up, or a £400 set up, without the basic skills sets required, you will produce nothing that is consistently drinkable, unless you are lucky. There is a reason why a Sage DB is 4 to 5 times the price of the lesser model you mention, At one time on here, the Sage DB was the darling of the forum as it actually can be a serious coffee machine, but the downside is or was reliability and the fact that they are simply not made to last. If you want to see one in 10 years time, visit a museum.
> 
> If you buy a basic machine buy a used Gaga Classic. Readily available, last forever and lots of modifications you can do if you search on here. Pair it with a Eureka Mignon that again, you can usually source on here. They last forever. They have small burrs but if you are on a budget needs be.
> 
> Others may howl, but I would not buy an entry level Sage grinder or coffee machine regardless of how much the relevant promotion will pay you to take one away


 Something like that?

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48107-gaggia-classic-eureka-mignon-combo/?do=embed


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

This combi is offered at a discount to DTP + Niche:

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/4512/s/ex-demo-lelit-glenda-pl41-and-pl71-grinder-package/category/521/

Any good?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> This combi is offered at a discount to DTP + Niche:
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/4512/s/ex-demo-lelit-glenda-pl41-and-pl71-grinder-package/category/521/
> 
> Any good?


 50mm grinder is bottom of the food chain , and again is unlikely to be same quality as niche ...

This is fine , just so you are aware as you mentioned niche as comparable.

I guess what I am saying is that it's cheaper than a niche and dtp, discounted or not, as the grinder is not comparable in burr size or workflow ( same as any other £500 grinder at new or second hand price )

Establish budget, establish workflow required ( single dose etc ) , space you have, aesthetic you require and what if espresso only or not for grinder, then we can make recommendation rather than saying yes or no to various combo's you are picking up.

Nothing wrong in wanting not to spend huge amounts of cash, but trying to find something as good as the niche with same functionality that's new, for half the price is a fools errand. Second hand grinders yes you will have options in the £300 to 500 range .

I know you think the Niche is over priced, that doesnt mean everything alot cheaper can be expected to be the same .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Re Lelit machine , I have not come across that one before, so cant't comment , can't say Ive seen any members profess to having one.

I have a Lelit Bianca and it's a well made machine but an utterly different kettle of fish to the one linked.

Glenda - I would want to understand how it regulated temperature as I can only see "boiler thermometer" this doesn't tell you much, silvia has a single boiler and a poor temp management system ( dont in the name of god buy a new silvia ) which can be 5c either way.

Im guessing but The description of boiler thermometer would leave me to think the glenda may suffer from similar temp problems but I am happy to be corrected.

Lastly I know the package is discounted by I woudl struggle to justify the RRP of 450 - 500 pounds for that grinder ( Amazon ) given its specs- 50mm and stepped grinder.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

What do you guys think of this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sage-By-Heston-Blumenthal-The-Dual-Boiler-Cranberry-brand-new/283635036070?hash=item4209f72fa6:g:jv0AAOSwuuVdmfS6&autorefresh=true


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> What do you guys think of this?
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sage-By-Heston-Blumenthal-The-Dual-Boiler-Cranberry-brand-new/283635036070?hash=item4209f72fa6:g:jv0AAOSwuuVdmfS6&autorefresh=true


 Listing has ended , its a sage db , if new and unopened its a keen price, but i would want to know what the guarantee/warrnaty is buying from these people, as the ebay seller has little sales history and looks like he sells grey market or other items. given this i'd pass from him .


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LOL Back on topic. Some what of a surmise based on some reports on the thermojet machines and experience of the BE which is a DTP+++ on certain features. Not just the grinder.

The DB has more steaming power. Not something I do often but watching my son it's very noticeably faster. The speed took me by surprise so need to learn again.

The hot water outlet on the BE was cooler than I would like. Reports on the thermojet models have indicated the same but may be faulty machines. The DB is perhaps a little hotter than I would ideally like. I tend to let my coffee cool to get at the real taste anyway. I switched to borosilicate mugs to get an acceptable temperature out of the BE. Of interest to me as I mostly drink americano and use the machine for hot water. Partly because I want a reasonable turn over of the water in the tank also convenience. Even with the turn over used this way I still need to clean the tank periodically. I don't think I would fancy trying to get hot water out of the steam wand on a DTP. Might work out but have my doubts. It might be hotter.

The DB uses the brew boiler for hot water. Starts at 93 and finishes up in the high 70's when as much as I use is run off. I make 10oz / 300ml drinks. It recovers fairly quickly but might slow down super quick grind prep people when making drinks on the trot.

Thorough descaling of a BE is easier than thermo anything as the solution sits in the boiler for a lot longer. With the thermothingies the best option is to do it very regularly. The DB takes a lot longer to do but can be a less frequent.

Brewing is distinctly different between the machines but I'd say both can make good coffee. Taste is likely to differ but I wouldn't say that is an important consideration.

Brew and other temperatures are controlled on all Sage machines. Measuring it accurately needs rather specialised equipment and as far as I know no one has.  Perhaps it's too good on the DB. The thermothingies are likely to be changed by flow rates but should be pretty good and a lot better than boilers with mechanical thermostats on them. They use what seems to be a novel method of pre heating fresh water going into the brew boiler. They don't appear to add water when steaming. They look to use dual water level probes to do that.

One odd thing. The Bambino appears to be a stripped down Barista Express - same feature internally.

Their grinders get a lot of stick. Unfairly in my view. A favourite that cropped up recently is wont reach espresso levels. If some one has one that wont there is something wrong with it. That includes brewing at 15 bar. It also doesn't leave much in the line of fines in peoples cups/mugs. Sage leave a reasonable height for those. Mine are 110mm tall  can't remember fully as I have used bottomless for so long but they may have needed a slight tilt to get them under spouted portafilters.

 Op probably off Sage already. I haven't read all of the posts.

John

-


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Listing has ended , its a sage db , if new and unopened its a keen price, but i would want to know what the guarantee/warrnaty is buying from these people, as the ebay seller has little sales history and looks like he sells grey market or other items. given this i'd pass from him .


 I bought it from him (but have not paid yet). He says he bought it from Hasbean Coffee. I asked for a copy of the receipt.

He says it benefits from a 2 yr warranty from Sage. I emailed them asking to confirm.

I understand that Paypal is here to arbitrate in the case of a dispute as well. Anything else I should be worried about?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Something like that?
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48107-gaggia-classic-eureka-mignon-combo/?do=embed


 would've been spot on!


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Hasi said:


> spot on!


 Agreed to buying a brand new Sage DB on ebay for c.50% discount to RRP. Now doing my due diligence per the message above.

Will probably couple it with a Niche, maintaining that magical 50:50 spend ration between machine and grinder


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

ajohn said:


> LOL Back on topic. Some what of a surmise based on some reports on the thermojet machines and experience of the BE which is a DTP+++ on certain features. Not just the grinder.
> 
> The DB has more steaming power. Not something I do often but watching my son it's very noticeably faster. The speed took me by surprise so need to learn again.
> 
> ...


 Sorry John, yes - I am all over the place but have now zoomed in on a Sage dual boiler + niche combi. Any thoughts?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I bought it from him (but have not paid yet). He says he bought it from Hasbean Coffee. I asked for a copy of the receipt.
> 
> He says it benefits from a 2 yr warranty from Sage. I emailed them asking to confirm.
> 
> I understand that Paypal is here to arbitrate in the case of a dispute as well. Anything else I should be worried about?


 there are very few manufacturers that offer a transferable warranty. I would not take the sellers word for it. It's now on it's third owner, and sage do not know if it's box opened or not, so they would be well within their rights to say no.

Yes you have PayPal if it turns up as not described and if anything is not per listing ( which says not opened ) I would take the chance to send it back. You are less covered if the thing breaks after 2 months ( via PayPal ) 
If there is no warranty then I would not touch it with a barge pole .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Sorry John, yes - I am all over the place but have now zoomed in on a Sage dual boiler + niche combi. Any thoughts?


 I ran the equivalent of a sage db and niche for a while , it will make as good a coffee as you put in it.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> there are very few manufacturers that offer a transferable warranty. I would not take the sellers word for it. It's now on it's third owner, and sage do not know if it's box opened or not, so they would be well within their rights to say no.
> 
> Yes you have PayPal if it turns up as not described and if anything is not per listing ( which says not opened ) I would take the chance to send it back. You are less covered if the thing breaks after 2 months ( via PayPal )
> If there is no warranty then I would not touch it with a barge pole .


 Thanks again. Does the sage warranty need to be registered? This item is not opened, so I will be the first to register it.

You say third owner: I think Hasbean is a shop selling sage machines (There is a DTP for sale there) or am I wrong?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Thanks again. Does the sage warranty need to be registered? This item is not opened, so I will be the first to register it.
> 
> You say third owner: I think Hasbean is a shop selling sage machines (There is a DTP for sale there) or am I wrong?


 You need to ask Sage, as I do not know they will have " sold" it to Hasbean, hasbean have "sold it" to this ebay seller, after that it's unlikely they have a view of where it is. I don' t know how they work the warranty works in this case. Do you register it and have to say who you bought if from or not ?

If Sage agree to honour the warranty and id get that in writing then it's a bargain.


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## Endless River (Nov 12, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> there are very few manufacturers that offer a transferable warranty. I would not take the sellers word for it. It's now on it's third owner, and sage do not know if it's box opened or not, so they would be well within their rights to say no.
> 
> Yes you have PayPal if it turns up as not described and if anything is not per listing ( which says not opened ) I would take the chance to send it back. You are less covered if the thing breaks after 2 months ( via PayPal )
> If there is no warranty then I would not touch it with a barge pole .


 My pal tells me the cranberry ones are probably 2 to 3 years old as SAge withdrew them ages ago man. I would ask him for the serial number. My pal says you can google Sage and speak to them, giving them the serial number. Me thinks if you do that, they will tell you if it is actually covered or not.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Endless River said:


> My pal tells me the cranberry ones are probably 2 to 3 years old as SAge withdrew them ages ago man. I would ask him for the serial number. My pal says you can google Sage and speak to them, giving them the serial number. Me thinks if you do that, they will tell you if it is actually covered or not.


 I already have: 2-yr warranty kicks-in from receipt date. Now if your pal is right, this item is defo out of warranty already.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Sorry John, yes - I am all over the place but have now zoomed in on a Sage dual boiler + niche combi. Any thoughts?


 If you bought the Gaggia you would be lusting after fitting it with PID if it isn't already fitted with it. The real problem may have been you though. Pass it's not a machine I would contemplate buying.

I reckon grinders for home use are always a bit of a compromise in some respect. As many finish up weighing beans in Niche is a very good one and has other advantages. There has been talk about conic versus flat taste so I am trying a blend I have never used before that should have a bit of a citrus twist. It also has the other taste notes. My Niche though is pretty well run in and that may make a difference. Its a bit of a bug bear on any new grinder. Things change a bit over kgs of beans. On Niche early on I noticed no static. Then static came but was pretty weak later it went. That was probably down to what little retention it has settling down. Good coffee then and since. Main aspect is a stronger tasting drink with slightly less grinds. I needed to reduce the dose from my previous grinder to achieve the stronger drink. Coffee is funny stuff. I also had to change things when I switched from a BE to the DB and when I used a mazzer mini instead of a Sage grinder.

Now after quite a few kg of beans certain happenings on a new bean indicate that I should probably clean it. I'd guess this is down to the bean I used most of the time and isn't something most will experience.  Thanks to @DavecUK I'll have to clean the burrs with IPA. Don't take much notice of that - it might make him laugh.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Endless River said:


> My pal tells me the cranberry ones are probably 2 to 3 years old as SAge withdrew them ages ago man. I would ask him for the serial number. My pal says you can google Sage and speak to them, giving them the serial number. Me thinks if you do that, they will tell you if it is actually covered or not.


 Excellent detective work and advice.

To the OP i would not take an item that has been unopened for 2-3 years with no warranty .


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## Endless River (Nov 12, 2014)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I already have: 2-yr warranty kicks-in from receipt date. Now if your pal is right, this item is defo out of warranty already.


 It may have been registered already man......if a previous owner did that I do not think you will be covered. I would presume the serial is on a sticker on the outside of the box so it is no big deal for them to give it to you. Me pal says watch out


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Excellent detective work and advice.
> To the OP i would not take an item that has been unopened for 2-3 years with no warranty .


The warranty should be from when Hasbean sold it. If they had it on a shelf for 2 years before selling it 6 months ago, it should still have 18 months left. No idea if they will transfer past the original owner though. Some companies do while others don't.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I already have: 2-yr warranty kicks-in from receipt date. Now if your pal is right, this item is defo out of warranty already.


 I'd just try registering it with Sage and seeing what happens. There is a can be rather hard to see number on the label on the bottom of the machine that tells them where it came from. If the box is unopened it's unlikely to be registered unless there are similar markings on the box. The warrantee should run from in use really as things can remain in stock for a long time. If some one has one for years and claims unused I would wonder but could be true. Paypal is usually the buyers friend in situations like that.

I couldn't read the number scrawled on the label of my BE.  Turned out it was already registered to me. How, why pass. I'd assume that the retailer told Sage that I had bought one. It could also be down to having a bit of a problem with it and discussing it rather firmly with the retailer who didn't want to know and pointed me at Sage. At the time they should have replaced it.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Mrboots2u said:
> 
> 
> > Excellent detective work and advice.
> ...


 Yep but they ( Has Bean ) didnt sell it to the Op and we do not know how long the Ebay seller has had it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Endless River said:


> It may have been registered already man......if a previous owner did that I do not think you will be covered. I would presume the serial is on a sticker on the outside of the box so it is no big deal for them to give it to you. Me pal says watch out


 Stuff is cheap for a reason


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

And my wife says online forums are a waste of time....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

As a total side issue, I bought one for my son in December 2016. It is the gloss black model. It is only used at weekends. Our tap water is soft enough to use without a filter, but that is irrelevant as the machine tells you if it wants a clean or descale cycle run. It is obviously the DB model. Comes exactly as a new one would with packaging etc. I paid £1049 for it. When we sell it very shortly, I want a fixed £500 for it.

If the cranberry one has no warranty, and I bet it does not (all sellers offer the standard 2 year consumer protection warranty, but that is what Sage give them. Only Coffee Compass are authorised by Sage to repair them.) then why pay £650? If they have lasted 3 years without issue and ours has not missed a beat, then with luck, it will go on for some time yet!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yep but they ( Has Bean ) didnt sell it to the Op and we do not know how long the Ebay seller has had it.


Not arguing with you. Just pointing out a machine from a production run 3 years ago could still be under warranty. Without knowing the purchase date or whether it's transferable, we're all just guessing.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> As a total side issue, I bought one for my son in December 2016. It is the gloss black model. It is only used at weekends. Our tap water is soft enough to use without a filter, but that is irrelevant as the machine tells you if it wants a clean or descale cycle run. It is obviously the DB model. Comes exactly as a new one would with packaging etc. I paid £1049 for it. When we sell it very shortly, I want a fixed £500 for it.
> 
> If the cranberry one has no warranty, and I bet it does not (all sellers offer the standard 2 year consumer protection warranty, but that is what Sage give them. Only Coffee Compass are authorised by Sage to repair them.) then why pay £650? If they have lasted 3 years without issue and ours has not missed a beat, then with luck, it will go on for some time yet!


 Thanks for your offer, will keep it on the back burner for now if that is OK?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Mrboots2u said:
> 
> 
> > Yep but they ( Has Bean ) didnt sell it to the Op and we do not know how long the Ebay seller has had it.
> ...


 Yeah I know, in general stuff is cheap for a reason, depends what the reasons are


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Excellent detective work and advice.
> 
> To the OP i would not take an item that has been unopened for 2-3 years with no warranty .


 Why do Sage ask people to register them then ? My registration is probably down to having a fault but hard to be sure.

Haven't people posted in the past that Sage warrantees can be transferred?

John

-


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yeah I know, in general stuff is cheap for a reason, depends what the reasons are


 Agreed


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> As a total side issue, I bought one for my son in December 2016. It is the gloss black model. It is only used at weekends. Our tap water is soft enough to use without a filter, but that is irrelevant as the machine tells you if it wants a clean or descale cycle run. It is obviously the DB model. Comes exactly as a new one would with packaging etc. I paid £1049 for it. When we sell it very shortly, I want a fixed £500 for it.
> 
> If the cranberry one has no warranty, and I bet it does not (all sellers offer the standard 2 year consumer protection warranty, but that is what Sage give them. Only Coffee Compass are authorised by Sage to repair them.) then why pay £650? If they have lasted 3 years without issue and ours has not missed a beat, then with luck, it will go on for some time yet!


Assuming you bought it from Lakeland, get it services just before the warranty runs out so they can replace all the o-rings & give it a once over for anything else which may be on the way out. That way it'll have the best chance of lasting as long as possible.

By the way, it's Coffee Classics that do the repair, Coffee Compass sell beans.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost to service these things out of warranty?

Can it be done DIY? And what are the major failures that could occur (and how much would they cost)?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Out of curiosity, how much does it cost to service these things out of warranty? Can it be done DIY? And what are the major failures that could occur (and how much would they cost)?


No idea on the cost as don't have a Sage but out of warranty you'll be charged for any parts they fit as well as their callout/labour charge.Getting parts for Sage to fit yourself can be tricky as we currently have no right to repair here & they want Coffee Classics to supply & fit most of them. People have been known to get parts they need from Australia in the past.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Endless River said:


> My pal tells me the cranberry ones are probably 2 to 3 years old as SAge withdrew them ages ago man. I would ask him for the serial number. My pal says you can google Sage and speak to them, giving them the serial number. Me thinks if you do that, they will tell you if it is actually covered or not.


 p.s. still for sale in the US:

https://www.amazon.com/Breville-BES920CBXL-Espresso-Machine-Cranberry/dp/B00ISQ6ZRK


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The bug bear with DB's is the O rings. There is plenty of info about on the Breville versions that these can be suspect after 3 years but that very probably also depends on the degree of use and how it's looked after. They aren't hard to replace providing some one is happy about opening a machine up etc.

The 3 way solenoid can also misbehave. I have had a bit of that. It turned out to be very very slight signs of fine sludge on the part that seals off when it's energised. They can need replacing for other reasons. I noticed that an Oz or maybe Nz dealer offers a none Sage replacement. Didn't keep a link I'm afraid.

Engineers sometimes replace a triac board. I plug mine into a surge protected extension socket. Might help.mTriac's are usually very reliable parts. If one failed my soldering iron would come out. Might be able to repair might not. I'd be interested to know what quality level of basic electronic components they use.

Getting an engineer to repair a Sage machine has to go through Coffee Classics. This may have to be via Sage. When engineers are used to repair I doubt if any are that cheap but I don't know. The rates mentioned to me by an engineer were pretty reasonable but recently saw a receipt where they were higher. Most of the bill was labour. It can be handled by post as repairs on their site should be cheaper than calling them out. Good idea to keep the packaging.

For the OP's interest mine is a refurb. 12 months warrantee the last 6months of would be a partial refund. First machine failed on power up so they found me another. It now shows 1710 shots most of which will be by me.  I worked it out 47p a shot using a lower shot count. If it ever recorded any faults they have been cleared and I have had none.

 Shot cost is of interest to me before I start doing things that might destroy it.

John

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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

On a separate note, what is the general consensus regarding units like the La Pavoni Professional EUROPICCOLA

compared to the fully electric stuff?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> On a separate note, what is the general consensus regarding units like the La Pavoni Professional EUROPICCOLA
> 
> compared to the fully electric stuff?


 good, but not for multiple drinks back to back


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

They look very cute so most of use might be tempted.

John

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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

I am now on the forum that Sage DBs can be very high maintenance and every round trip to the engineers costs £150. Boiler replacements, valves, PID sensors, etc...

Are they that unreliable?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I am now on the forum that Sage DBs can be very high maintenance and every round trip to the engineers costs £150. Boiler replacements, valves, PID sensors, etc...
> 
> Are they that unreliable?


 Depends who you ask, some people have had no issues with em since owning em, some haven't , worth bearing in mind they are sold to really wide audience and skill of people ( through john lewis etc ) this means they are more than likely, more sage machines out there than alot of others and being operated by people who might , just might not be feeding em good water and with good practice.

I had an oracle for what 5 years plus, and it i have never had a thing go wrong with it, Dfk offered you one that seems to have lasted well with no problems.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

What type of water shall does machines be "fed" with?

I am guessing from your reply that tap water with regular descaling is not enough...


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

One of the important things to consider is where you are in your coffee journey. Not sure if its clear from any of the posts above.

1. I'd say if you are starting out then there is consensus that you can get very tasty coffee from Sage DTP and Gaggia Classic. We can discuss their differences if you'd like.

2. As for grinder, will you be buying a bag of coffee and drinking that until it finishes or do you fancy buying several coffees and alternating between them. If it's the former then your choice of grinders with hoppers is quite vast. If you'd like to alternate then there is not much that competes with the Niche in workflow in its price bracket.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

M_H_S said:


> One of the important things to consider is where you are in your coffee journey. Not sure if its clear from any of the posts above.
> 
> 1. I'd say if you are starting out then there is consensus that you can get very tasty coffee from Sage DTP and Gaggia Classic. We can discuss their differences if you'd like.
> 
> ...


 1) Easy: I have never ever pulled a cup of coffee in my life - just pods.

Bought a Sage DB as first machine as not keen replacing the machine every couple of years.

2) Niche seems to be the consensus. They mailed me back today offering me the Zero for £510 delivered. I am hopping I could get it for less (possibly used) - not in a hurry. Happy to train with cheap Tesco ground coffee for a couple of months.

What about other necessary accessories? I have nothing really. I guess I need a scale of some sort or does the volumetric button in DB circumvent that? Tampers?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Tamper and scales are a must. You want to know how much coffee you're putting in anyway. I haven't owned DB, but the tamper that came with DTP wasn't great.

Then some cloths for steam wand and machine cleaning, some coffee cleaning solution (Cafiza)...

Sometime along the journey I'd suggest getting some WDT (distribution) tool, dosing funnel, VST basket, spare group gaskets, coffee leveller (made by Motta, OCD, Scarlet Espresso, etc), milk jug (if you don't like sage one), some nice mugs (Acme, Loveceramics, dAncap), group brush (Cafelat, Espazzola), shower screen... well, that's probably enough for you to go and research (and punch in the credit card numbers few times).

P.S. I wouldn't recommend buying preground until you get a grinder. It's a waste of time.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

PPapa said:


> Tamper and scales are a must. You want to know how much coffee you're putting in anyway. I haven't owned DB, but the tamper that came with DTP wasn't great.
> 
> Then some cloths for steam wand and machine cleaning, some coffee cleaning solution (Cafiza)...
> 
> ...


 Thank you for the exhaustive answer.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> What type of water shall does machines be "fed" with?
> 
> I am guessing from your reply that tap water with regular descaling is not enough...


 It depends one what comes out of your tap. People who live in harder water areas are better off using certain brands of bottled water. The DB comes with a test strip to check water hardness. I'd say from my experiences set the machine one grade harder. Think that the manual mentions best to use an alternative source if hardness is above some level. Read bottled for that.

They come with an efficient water filter fitted which isn't cheap. Using bottled works out significantly cheaper than replacing that. Personally I would still descale some point any way. Maybe set the machine one grade harder than the bottled water is.

The above in real terms applies to any espresso machine. The DB's plus is that unlike most it's easy to descale. Generally "spanners" are needed and even then it may not be easy.

The other aspect is back flushing with cleaning tablets. The DB indicates when to do this. I'd be inclined to do it more often.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I am now on the forum that Sage DBs can be very high maintenance and every round trip to the engineers costs £150. Boiler replacements, valves, PID sensors, etc...
> 
> Are they that unreliable?


 I saw one recently. Triac board replacement other bits and bobs sub £100 with £50 labour. A fair proportion of the parts that may need replacing at some point are pretty easy to get at.

I'd say look after it and treat it as it should be. At 3 years or sooner it would be wise to replace the O ring seals and clean the level probes. It pays to remember that there are a LOT of them about and the good news is seldom mentioned. Most info is available by searching Breville rather than Sage. How long things last is also likely to relate to shot counts / time on but poor maintenance will screw things up.

I don't think any machine repair done by an espresso machine engineer is going to be cheap. Far from it from the few I have seen and all are likely to need work at some point. That has to be balanced with what the DB offers at it's price. That's tricky but I'd be inclined to say £2000 or so from others and even then it might not have stainless boilers.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> 1) Easy: I have never ever pulled a cup of coffee in my life - just pods.
> 
> Bought a Sage DB as first machine as not keen replacing the machine every couple of years.
> 
> ...


 cheap coffee will train your to make poor coffee. pre ground will teach you not to use pre ground..

unless you see a second hand one , then the price will stay the price .

get some scales, do not rely on volumetrics....


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> cheap coffee will train your to make poor coffee. pre ground will teach you not to use pre ground..
> 
> unless you see a second hand one , then the price will stay the price .
> 
> get some scales, do not rely on volumetrics....


 Noted.

Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.

Are any of those good enough?


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Never in my experience.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Noted.
> 
> Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.
> 
> Are any of those good enough?


 imho no.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There is no harm in trying them but I wouldn't hold out your hopes. My bother uses one Tesco bean in an aeropress. It's ok that way but I find it very weak. Tried it in an espresso machine and it was crap. Also tried Lavaza beans that are fine for me in a french press - crap again, Curiously an espresso blend was the opposite way round and wasn't too bad but high caffeine so probably loads of robusta.

Go to commercial packs and things can be different but ones I have bought come in a 1kg pack and I would only recommend one of the two pure arabica I tried.

John

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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Noted.
> 
> Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.
> 
> Are any of those good enough?


 Depends on your taste


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Noted.
> 
> Was just at Tesco - they have multiple kinds of beans. Expiry dates between March and Au 2020. No roasting date on any of them. Price ranging from £3 to £7 per 227gm bag.
> 
> Are any of those good enough?


 £25 at CoffeeBeanShop will get you a selection of 4 or 5 bags of beans delivered to your door. Chuck all bar one or 2 bags in the freezer, leave the first bags for a few days or so and away you go. They deliver quickly too. If you want to spend more, of course you can, but they're pretty nice in my book.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Thank you all - we should probably rename this thread to the Tony's First Steps to Espresso Nirvana as we are covering plenty of angles.

SDB is being shipped and Niche will follow soon.

Now I can see that quality beans range from £20 to £50 per kg. I should perhaps stick to packs of 200gms since I only drink 2 cups per week. I equally understand that freezing is not recommended. Where could I find a source of reasonably priced, freshly roasted, espresso grade beans to start learning with?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> Thank you all - we should probably rename this thread to the Tony's First Steps to Espresso Nirvana as we are covering plenty of angle.
> SDB is being shipped and Niche will follow soon.
> Now I can see that quality beans range from £20 to £50kg. I should perhaps stick to packs of 200gms since I only drink 2 cups per week. I equally understand that freezing is not recommended. Where could I find a source of reasonably priced, freshly roasted, espresso grade beans to start learning with?


Coffee Compass do a mystery coffee for a very good price. It's sold by the kilo but that'll give you plenty enough to learn how to dial in & use the DB.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

ashcroc said:


> Coffee Fan Guy said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you all - we should probably rename this thread to the Tony's First Steps to Espresso Nirvana as we are covering plenty of angle.
> ...


 OK thanks. What is Mark 11? 11th edition or something?

How have the previous 10 been? Hopefully not cheap stuff repackaged at a premium. Are we getting single origin arabica beans here?

And last, how do I deal with th excess: Freezing, sous-viding (got one of those from Lidl) or else? 1 KG will take me a long time to drink...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I don't but my understanding is lots freeze beans.

If you want something cheaper that I doubt if anyone would object to and should still be usable up to circa 6 weeks these may suite

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFC0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Rather a lot but you may use a couple of hundred grams playing around. They behave in much the same way as fresh roasted do.

John

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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

ajohn said:


> I don't but my understanding is lots freeze beans.
> 
> If you want something cheaper that I doubt if anyone would object to and should still be usable up to circa 6 weeks these may suite
> 
> ...


 £14 per Kg again...interesting. Gteed arabica at least, but a blend by the looks of it.

What is the consensus on this: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/250349821

Lots of cafes in Italy use it...


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

And one more tangent: is roasting coffee at home a thing? Do you know any who do it or is it pushing the envelop too far?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> OK thanks. What is Mark 11? 11th edition or something?
> How have the previous 10 been? Hopefully not cheap stuff repackaged at a premium. Are we getting single origin arabica beans here?
> And last, how do I deal with th excess: Freezing, sous-viding (got one of those from Lidl) or else? 1 KG will take me a long time to drink...


It's the 11th mystery bean they've done. Don't worry about the quality, they'd charge more for it if they told us what it actually is.
Quite a few members will vac-pack (either the whole bag or split into more manageable quantities) & freeze for not much detriment. You can actually grind straight from frozen but if freezing in larger than single quantities, it's better to let them defrost fully before opening the bag so the moisture in the air doesn't condense on them.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> £14 per Kg again...interesting. Gteed arabica at least, but a blend by the looks of it.
> What is the consensus on this: https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/250349821
> Lots of cafes in Italy use it...


That illy is £22 a kilo!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You might have so many problems roasting that you might never sort out using the espresso machine.

I suspect that many of the beans sold off supermarket shelves are processed in a way that make them more suitable for brewing with other methods.

John

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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

I am now looking for a good tamper to go with the SDB - so many options out there. Which size shall I go for? Rubber or not? palm? etc...

And any specific suggestions otherwise?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

rubber?

size 58.4 and above , flat base


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> rubber?
> 
> size 58.4 and above , flat base


 Rubber: whatever this guy is talking about:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/47661-sage-db-what-a-machine/?do=embed

58.4?

I thought the SDB hat a 58mm portafilter.

Flat base: noted.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> 58.4?
> 
> I thought the SDB hat a 58mm portafilter.


 That's true in general, they say it's a 58mm but it's actually a bit bigger. For a long time tampers weren't that accurate in size either, and they were smaller than the basket but it leaves a decent amount of untamped coffee then. 58.4mm is generally a good fit on most without getting stuck. If you fancy more reading, though obviously he was selling a product it does explain a bit more about what might be missed with a generic 58mm tamper - https://baristahustle.com/blog/pergtamp/


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

jlarkin said:


> That's true in general, they say it's a 58mm but it's actually a bit bigger. For a long time tampers weren't that accurate in size either, and they were smaller than the basket but it leaves a decent amount of untamped coffee then. 58.4mm is generally a good fit on most without getting stuck. If you fancy more reading, though obviously he was selling a product it does explain a bit more about what might be missed with a generic 58mm tamper - https://baristahustle.com/blog/pergtamp/


 Perfect - does the same sizing apply to funnels as well?

I am eyeing this one and wonder if it is big enough: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07MDYDJZ9/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A5G2P61BR9EV5&psc=1


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> rubber?
> 
> size 58.4 and above , flat base


 What about the Motta Competition 58.4?

Is is reasonably priced but wonder if good enough?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Usually funnels fit inside the portafilter basket= you cannot tamp through the funnel


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Usually funnels fit inside the portafilter basket= you cannot tamp through the funnel


 You can with the new 'Decent' type funnels. They fit on the outside of the basket.

Knock-off on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07PLBCSDL/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07PLBCSDL&pd_rd_w=s5Ktz&pf_rd_p=1055d8b2-c10c-4d7d-b50d-96300553e15d&pd_rd_wg=zOJAO&pf_rd_r=A9VWQRXWPX02Q7W8WB7G&pd_rd_r=29e9117d-c867-4143-8869-26bf5767aee5&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExNE9YSTg1OEYzQ1kxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODAxMzYxM1FTV0xNOUxQSkU3NSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDY4NjcwMTJZSVozR1Q4RTVFQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

lake_m said:


> You can with the new 'Decent' type funnels. They fit on the outside of the basket.
> 
> Knock-off on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07PLBCSDL/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07PLBCSDL&pd_rd_w=s5Ktz&pf_rd_p=1055d8b2-c10c-4d7d-b50d-96300553e15d&pd_rd_wg=zOJAO&pf_rd_r=A9VWQRXWPX02Q7W8WB7G&pd_rd_r=29e9117d-c867-4143-8869-26bf5767aee5&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExNE9YSTg1OEYzQ1kxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODAxMzYxM1FTV0xNOUxQSkU3NSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDY4NjcwMTJZSVozR1Q4RTVFQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
> 
> ...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> What about the Motta Competition 58.4?
> 
> Is is reasonably priced but wonder if good enough?


 I don't know , never used one .


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There is a well made 58.5mm wooden handled one on ebay listed for Gaggia

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Italian-Black-Handle-Tamper-58-5mm-for-Gaggia-Coffee-Machine-Maker/163523292745?hash=item2612bf6e49:g:UrQAAOSwajVUT6Do

He's a decent seller and gets thing sent pretty quickly. Prices are usually good too - as this one is.

My apologies on the link to the Lavazza beans. Copied it out of my purchase history and should have been this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Aroma-Espresso-Beans-Arabica/dp/B000SDMFHA/ref=pd_bxgy_325_3/262-8216763-2154146?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000SDMFHA&pd_rd_r=326d36d4-26ff-4dc7-9713-47ad90e2d429&pd_rd_w=huKzH&pd_rd_wg=teoSk&pf_rd_p=31fcc995-2418-43ae-a37c-f1ef453a46b3&pf_rd_r=MSM39T8XPBWG9BANBMWZ&psc=1&refRID=MSM39T8XPBWG9BANBMWZ

LOL Linked to the black handled tamper. This is the wooden one

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Italian-Walnut-Competition-Coffee-Tamper-58-5mm-Wood-Handle-/401464748388?hash=item5d7929e964

John

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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

ajohn said:


> There is a well made 58.5mm wooden handled one on ebay listed for Gaggia
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Italian-Black-Handle-Tamper-58-5mm-for-Gaggia-Coffee-Machine-Maker/163523292745?hash=item2612bf6e49:g:UrQAAOSwajVUT6Do
> 
> ...


 Cool thanks. I have recoeved 1kg of Tierra Selection from Amazon I'd need to drink first.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The 58.5mm tamper I use now is this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07DXJMTX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mine actually comes out at about 15kg

No tamping stand but I do use a mat. This one and was hard to find

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00UL8IRPG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Likely to lasts a lot longer than silicone and far easier to brush grinds off. They come coated with a bit of talc but nail brush and soap gets it off -  mostly anyway but can't be seen after a bit of use. Bought Jul 18 and still fine but my biggest moan about the silicone ones was brushing grinds off.

A 58.5mm 2 slope levelling tool seems to only be available from china or germany - ebay.

John

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> The 58.5mm tamper I use now is this one
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07DXJMTX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> Mine actually comes out at about 15kg
> No tamping stand but I do use a mat. This one and was hard to find
> ...


I just throw my silicon mat in the top draw of the dishwasher from time to time. No problem at all keeping it clean.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've had 3 silicone and got so fed up with them I bought the rubber one. Each to their own. Silicone is just a cheaper way of making them.

John

-


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

ajohn said:


> The 58.5mm tamper I use now is this one
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07DXJMTX7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 Thanks - ordered both


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