# Moka pot differences from brew to brew



## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I usually make a pot with 215g water in the chamber (up to the valve) and 18g of coffee. I don't tamp, but even the heap flat with a finger.

What I don't understand is that some days the pot starts sputtering very early in the brew, while other times there is an even flow of coffee until it starts sputtering at the end. I tried pulling it off when it starts sputtering early, pour out the coffe and put it back on. It keeps brewing, but sputtering at the same time.

What can be causing this and is it a problem?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Zephyp said:


> I usually make a pot with 215g water in the chamber (up to the valve) and 18g of coffee. I don't tamp, but even the heap flat with a finger.
> What I don't understand is that some days the pot starts sputtering very early in the brew, while other times there is an even flow of coffee until it starts sputtering at the end. I tried pulling it off when it starts sputtering early, pour out the coffe and put it back on. It keeps brewing, but sputtering at the same time.
> What can be causing this and is it a problem?


From my experience, a lot is to do with the seal between the basket and the brewing chamber / filter. Make sure it's in good condition, clean and it's forming a good seal, with no coffee residual around.

I have a Bialetti Venus and I need to tighten it really hard to form a good seal. It's been the case since new.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> From my experience, a lot is to do with the seal between the basket and the brewing chamber / filter. Make sure it's in good condition, clean and it's forming a good seal, with no coffee residual around.
> 
> I have a Bialetti Venus and I need to tighten it really hard to form a good seal. It's been the case since new.


 That might be it. I'm heating up the water first in the chamber, so I need a towel when attaching the top part. That might make the fit a bit different from time to time. Maybe I'll try starting with cold water, or preheat in a kettle and pour it over, if it doesn't heat up the chamber too fast before I can attach it.

Thanks.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Zephyp said:


> That might be it. I'm heating up the water first in the chamber, so I need a towel when attaching the top part. That might make the fit a bit different from time to time. Maybe I'll try starting with cold water, or preheat in a kettle and pour it over, if it doesn't heat up the chamber too fast before I can attach it.
> Thanks.


Silicone oven gloves - that's the only thing that worked for me, as they can grip into the cylindrical shape of my Moka Pot (not hexagonal like traditional Bialettis).


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I got a Venus too, so I usually have to hold on to the valve. I haven't even heard of silicone oven gloves, but it sounds like something I should have in life.


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## Kahweol (Apr 26, 2016)

The Bialetti Brika is an interesting alternative you could try. It builds up the pressure and releases the coffee mostly all at once.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Zephyp said:


> I got a Venus too, so I usually have to hold on to the valve. I haven't even heard of silicone oven gloves, but it sounds like something I should have in life.


That's the one I have:

https://www.lakeland.co.uk/14017/Lakeland-Silicone-Double-Oven-Glove


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Aren't you supposed to brew from cold water?

The idea being that the air in the lower chamber has to expand to push water through to the upper chamber. If it's hot, it won't expand as much.

I tried using hot water once and it was a mess. I could imagine you could get inconsistent results if the air in the lower chamber is hot, but likely quite variable.

I have the Venus as well. From cold it's always been consistent though I haven't used it much recently.

Also if anyone has a guide Niche setting for it, that would be great!

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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

richwade80 said:


> Aren't you supposed to brew from cold water?
> 
> The idea being that the air in the lower chamber has to expand to push water through to the upper chamber. If it's hot, it won't expand as much.
> 
> ...


 Use cold water for Brikka, but hot water for ordinary Moka pot. Despite their apparent similarities they brew & behave differently. I can give you an approximation for the Niche setting with the *Brikka* but it won't necessarily hold true for your Niche or beans... but it's something, I suppose... try # 25. I grind finer than many, (using a 2 cup *Brikka* pot, 16 grams, medium dark beans, 70 ml water) so also keep that in mind.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Slowpress said:


> Use cold water for Brikka, but hot water for ordinary Moka pot. Despite their apparent similarities they brew & behave differently. I can give you an approximation for the Niche setting with the *Brikka* but it won't necessarily hold true for your Niche or beans... but it's something, I suppose... try # 25. I grind finer than many, (using a 2 cup pot, 16 grams, medium dark beans, 70 ml water) so also keep that in mind.


Well I never!

I think I better dust it off and have a go then. How hot is the water supposed to be before adding the upper chamber? Off the boil?

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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

richwade80 said:


> Aren't you supposed to brew from cold water?
> 
> The idea being that the air in the lower chamber has to expand to push water through to the upper chamber. If it's hot, it won't expand as much.
> 
> ...


Use hot water. Based on here:

https://www.stumptowncoffee.com/blog/brew-guides-moka-pot

And here:


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Those are both great video guides on Moka pots , particularly Gabor's ("Back to the Moka pot")!

And, there is also the "bed wetting" approach, for Moka pots:

www.home-barista.com/brewing/how-to-improve-your-moka-pot-coffee-t48638.html

See it in action here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRtF_CGY8GE

The key with Moka pots is to experiment (persistently, need be) to get the taste you seek. If at all possible, brew over a gas flame. Gas heat is just that much better than electric burners in this application. Ideally, it would be a micro-burner gas flame, one that keeps heat centred under the pot rather than up the sides.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I'm using induction and it might not be ideal. If I set it low, it keeps brewing i pulses. If I go too high, it brews too fast. I don't know if pulsing has a negative effect on the brew.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Zephyp said:


> I'm using induction and it might not be ideal. If I set it low, it keeps brewing i pulses. If I go too high, it brews too fast. I don't know if pulsing has a negative effect on the brew.


 I have used induction with a small stainless steel moka pot (magnetic), and it works; I just prefer the taste from my old-school aluminum Brikka, which cannot be used on induction (non-magnetic). That said, I've never encountered "pulsing" in either type of pot. With either induction or micro-burner gas flame I use a medium (to medium +) heat setting. Have you played with different grind settings, to see if that changes the behaviour?

Brew & taste, then repeat (many times ?) ... see if you are getting close to the flavour you want. Tasting each brew will tell you a lot, and guide you in your brewing adjustments.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

Slowpress said:


> I have used induction with a small stainless steel moka pot (magnetic), and it works; I just prefer the taste from my old-school aluminum Brikka, which cannot be used on induction (non-magnetic). That said, I've never encountered "pulsing" in either type of pot. With either induction or micro-burner gas flame I use a medium (to medium +) heat setting. Have you played with different grind settings, to see if that changes the behaviour?
> 
> Brew & taste, then repeat (many times ?) ... see if you are getting close to the flavour you want. Tasting each brew will tell you a lot, and guide you in your brewing adjustments.


 It's because the induction hob is turning on and off at an interval that fits the power level I've chosen. At 3/10, it give these short bursts that are audible. If I put it on 7/10, it stays on longer every time, but also turns on and off the same way. I guess it can only run at full power, so it has to regulate output by turning on and off.

In the pot, I see some coffee dribble out, then there's a small pause, then it flows again. I can record a video of it one day.

Yeah, I guess experimentation is always the solution.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I have also thought the sputtering started earlier when I used a finer grind. I took it off when that happened, resulting in less beverage.

May that also have to do with pot assembly or could I get less output with finer grind? I'm not talking about a few grams, but enough to make it visibly noticeable in the pot.

The final beverage weight may end up the same if I just let it sit there and sputter until there's nothing but steam coming out.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> The final beverage weight may end up the same if I just let it sit there and sputter until there's nothing but steam coming out.


 If you pass steam through the bed, it's going to cause off flavours.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

MWJB said:


> If you pass steam through the bed, it's going to cause off flavours.


 Yeah, that's what I've learned. Which is why I've pulled the pot off the heat once it starts sputtering, but it starts at different levels, giving different BEV from brew to brew. What I don't know is if there's steam being pushed through when the sputtering first starts. There's still coffee coming out and will do for some time until it's out.

I wonder if the induction hob can have something to do with it. That the pulsing behavior cause it to pull in some air through the output-pipe, which then is pushed back up again.

This isn't my main brewing method. It's primarily my GF for breakfast and usually with milk, so it's probably not something I'll spend too much time on. I also grind with an electric Wilfa WSCG, which doesn't produce the best grind. Would be nice if I could make a consistently decent brew though.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I've been trying some more recently, using the C40, and starting to get the hang of things.

I'll add more at a later time.

One thing is the applied heat. I've always been keeping it on the stove for the entire brew, but I've read more about removing it 5-15s after it starts brewing, and it is promising. It brewed for longer, but no sputtering. Don't know how this affects temperature in the water passing the puck.

Another is ratio. I've been brewing ~150g with 19g dose, but I see many brewing for ratios of 1:2-1:4. The cup today with 19g dose had 100g output and very interesting. Better than the 160g output. I drank some clean and some with milk. I'll probably try brews all the way down to 1:2.

One thing I wonder about is the extraction and how it relates to the ratio. How does the TDS change going from 1:2 to 1:4? You obviously got more water in 1:4, but how much more is extracted from the beans? What's coming out is still brown, so there's still stuff being extracted. What I'm getting at here is that I don't want to add 19g of grounds and only extract a very small part of them to get a small output.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

@Zephyp if you have access to a small gas micro burner (like the Rekrow) or even a standard camping stove with gas flame, you might well find that helps a great deal in giving you more heat/flame control than induction burner. I always felt best brews were made over a small gas flame . Next best was electric coil burner. (Induction & radiant heat, not so great IMO.)

Persistence will pay off, in time?


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## Ladycoffeegeek (May 16, 2019)

This dude though


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Ladycoffeegeek said:


> This dude though


 Marvellous!?☺


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Use hot water. Based on here:
> 
> https://www.stumptowncoffee.com/blog/brew-guides-moka-pot
> 
> ...


So my espresso machine was out of action recently and I got the moka pot out to try this hot water witchcraft. 

What I found was that if the water is already very hot, then the brew takes a lot of heating and sputters from the start. 

If you use 'cooler' hot water it's okay...

To me this makes sense. The water only gets pushed up when the air expands. If the air in the chamber is already hot from the water below, then it surely expands less. 

Perhaps you can test this by blowing the hot air out of the chamber before putting the basket in. My issue could be that I filled the basket when it was on the base, happily all getting hot for several minutes. 

So why not use cold water to start anyway, wouldn't it encourage a more sensible brew temperature? It always seemed okay to me...

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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I've got one of those induction Moka Pots. I had to buy it when I was with my ex as she had an induction hob installed (then had to throw away most of her saucepans :classic_rolleyes: ). I'm now using it at my partner's house as I find it a lot quicker than using the La Pavoni. I've also taken to hers a Lavazza milk frother thingy. Only difference is she has gas and I use the smallest ring which is just perfect. I just get a nice steady slow stream from it when it's ready, and take turn off before it starts frothing,

I've also got a Bialetti Mukka Express electric cappuccino thing , which you add milk to the top part and when it's ready it makes you jump.. coffee and steam come out of a nozzle which heats and froths the milk (well, not so much froth in the end and it's probably a bit too hot tbh)

Anyone using Niche's, what setting do you use? I've got mine just into the drip setting. Also I think I'm going to start putting aeropress filters in again to stop crap from going into the base.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Someone recommended me to use 25, and it's seems good.

Also no idea why my previous post is all mukka'd up.... can't change it now.

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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Set mine to 25 and it works well.


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## Stekipho (Jan 15, 2020)

I've arrived at 25 as well after a lot of trying.

Do people grease the ring of their moka pots to make it seal better, or is that not a good idea? Haven't tried it myself yet, but I'm having some issues with a consistent seal as well.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Stekipho said:


> I've arrived at 25 as well after a lot of trying.
> Do people grease the ring of their moka pots to make it seal better, or is that not a good idea? Haven't tried it myself yet, but I'm having some issues with a consistent seal as well.


Same here. My Bialetti Venus is very hard to seal, and the cylindrical shape, as opposed to an hexagonal shape, does not help!


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

I have never greased the rings of my moka pots, and have used them daily for many, many years. (The newer manufactured pots may behave differently I suppose, now that they are no longer made in Italy?)

If you do have trouble with your seal, I'd look at the gasket & make sure it is not dry or cracked or compromised with stray coffee grains. Even a single grain of coffee grind can compromise the seal. Also, let all parts dry out separately (disassembled) between use.

Does the pot screw together easily without the gasket in place? If the aluminum or steel threads are not smooth when turning, due to manufacturing flaw, they might be helped with some type of lubrication, but that is not the norm. However, the threads do require a bit of care with the initial alignment though, as you engage the lower & upper chamber threads.... they behave just like a zipper on your coat, and need to be lined up "bang on" right at the start, or they'll misalign & snag.

As an aside, the quality & consistency of the brew from moka pots can be improved when the grinds are distributed well & with care in the basket... stirring well with a thin wire or needle & then forming a gentle pyramid (by drawing the sides of the coffee bed with the side of that wire or needle); the top chamber will provide the levelling and "tamping" of the grinds when it is carefully (level) placed on the lower chamber, and then screwed on. This takes more time than the quicker default moka/brikka pot approach, but along with weighing beans after grinding, you will find your brews are very consistent with this extra attention.?


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## slammy (Jul 17, 2020)

Great videos, making me think twice about rushing to get a machine, maybe I need to experiment more with my moka pot first... I do enjoy the process, I will make some adjustments and see if I can improve ☺


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