# Don't send a machine by courier



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

I advertised my Gaggia classic as collection only but agreed to post to @Rakesh.

Courier suggested by Rakesh was DPD and I insured the item for full sale price of £110

Gaggia picked up today and group head plate now detached from the rest of the chassis. I videoed the unit working before I sent it and Rakesh has sent me a video of it in its dismal state.

i have refunded the purchase price by reversing the PayPal transaction. I haven't charged for the postage yet that was agreed to be paid

So, please learn from my mistake, DO NOT post a machine........


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Good grief, what an absolute disaster. That really is so irritating - for both of you.

Are you able to make a claim?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

God only knows what goes on in the distribution centres......

...but this may give you some idea....


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Should be able to claim - paid extra to insure for the full value and it was well packed.


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## mcrmfc (Sep 17, 2016)

What's been damaged, I have some limited spares around my garage, e.g. a whole new outer case if you want?


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

lake_m said:


> God only knows what goes on in the distribution centres......
> 
> ...but this may give you some idea....


LOL.... it does make you wonder....


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

That's strange, I've sent miss silvia and mignon via courier to UK and it also came with a detached shower screen and dispersion plate and the water tank was cracked..makes you wonder, they probably tie these behind the van and drag them all the way across dirt roads..fortunately it works


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Unfortunately this was the case, i've usually arranged all my machines to be transported via courier and never had this happen. On Pauls part he has been really kind in refunding the money. I've not been the luckiest with my machines so far.


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

mcrmfc said:


> What's been damaged, I have some limited spares around my garage, e.g. a whole new outer case if you want?


The plate that the group attaches to is totally detached. Thank you for the kind offer - I will let you know once I receive it back and if DPD agree to refund. Where are you based (should I risk it being posted!) and how much would you want for it?


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## mcrmfc (Sep 17, 2016)

PHB1969 said:


> The plate that the group attaches to is totally detached. Thank you for the kind offer - I will let you know once I receive it back and if DPD agree to refund. Where are you based (should I risk it being posted!) and how much would you want for it?


You can have it for free just reimburse postage. I am in South London.


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

mcrmfc said:


> You can have it for free just reimburse postage. I am in South London.


Thank you, that is very kind. I will drop you a pm probably tomorrow....cheers Paul


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I once had a grinder delivered to me via a courier (can't remember which one tbh) and it arrived broken. It was a mix of being packaged badly (most of it was cushioned, apart from the base as it was sat on the bottom of the cardboard box..)

I don't post stuff now and only pick up larger stuff in person.


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

After a very recent bitter experience with Hermes smashing the cr*p out of a machine, it transpires that even though they accepted the additional premium for insurance, the list of excluded items is very very long and its my fault for not reading it in advance, lol

I will only now use Parcelforce as their 'list' of exclusions is ok


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

DPD exclusions:

4. *GOODS NOT ACCEPTED FOR CARRIAGE OR STORAGE*

(a) The Company shall not accept certain goods for carriage or storage, including, but not limited to, any of the following goods:

i. Dangerous Goods, hazardous goods, flammable goods; or

ii. firearms, tobacco products, works of art, jewellery (including watches), cash, glass or any articles (or part of them) that are made up of glass, porcelain, earthenware or other similar materials, documents which can be exchanged for cash or goods (for example cheques, vouchers with a face value), precious metals (including gold or silver items), antiques, furs or any other valuables, alcohol including wines, beers and spirits, liquids of any kind, televisions or monitors with screens larger than 37", body parts or human remains, living or dead animals, fish or birds, or any living organism of any type (including trees and plants) and frozen or perishable food, non excepted batteries; or

iii. any goods prohibited by the law or regulation of any government or public or local authority of any country where the goods are carried; or

iv. any goods which require temperature controlled transport;

unless an Executive Director of the Company has notified the Customer in writing that they are accepted and, unless such notice has been given in writing, the Company shall have no liability whatsoever, including losses arising from negligent acts of the Company, in respect of them.

(b) The Company may impose additional restrictions depending upon destination of delivery and the service being provided. The Customer acknowledges that regulatory and custom clearances may be required for certain goods, which may extend the transit time and may delay delivery.

© The Company reserves the right to reject Consignments for reasons of security or safety.

so.....an electric coffee maker should be ok....nothing living in it, no body parts or human remains.....!!! The mind boggles!!!


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Rhys said:


> I once had a grinder delivered to me via a courier (can't remember which one tbh) and it arrived broken. It was a mix of being packaged badly (most of it was cushioned, apart from the base as it was sat on the bottom of the cardboard box..)
> 
> I don't post stuff now and only pick up larger stuff in person.


The base was all "snarks" (polystyrene s shapes) the sides were foam blocks and the top was foam sheets and bubble wrap...I was pleased with how well it was packed.


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Further checking with DPD on their list of exclusions (which isn't listed in their terms & conditions).

https://www.dpdlocal-online.co.uk/prohibited-items?utm_source=Transactional&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Transcational&utm_content=OrderConfirmation

coffee machines are listed as an exclusion so highly unlikely I will get a refund......so I'm likely to be out of pocket.......

with any luck and thanks to mcrmfc I should be able to rebody.....there is some light at the end of the tunnel and proof that trying to do someone a favour doesn't always backfire!!

im trying not to be too hacked off about this....!!


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## koi (Oct 12, 2014)

So they let you pay for insurance even though it wouldn't be covered? Nice money maker for them.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PHB1969 said:


> Further checking with DPD on their list of exclusions (which isn't listed in their terms & conditions).
> 
> https://www.dpdlocal-online.co.uk/prohibited-items?utm_source=Transactional&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Transcational&utm_content=OrderConfirmation
> 
> ...


I'd contact citizens advice if I were you. It could be argued that you shouldn't be expected to hunt for a list of exclusions if you've already read one which points towards you being covered.

Hope it's a relatively simple repair.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

Hermes smashed a hopper I posted with a grinder. They refunded without hassle. Although trying to make a claim was a whole different matter.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

Make a claim, see what happens.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

I've used Parcelforce in the past via parcel monkey. Absolute nightmare. Grinder got smashed & it took 3 months for them to pay out, even though I'd opted for the extra insurance. Apparently I should have taken photos of the type of packing materials used before sealing to prove it was packed correctly! Never again & I now always insist on collection only


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## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

That's a real shame mate. At least you're doing the right thing sorting the buyer out.

I worked for a delivery firm many years ago and saw some of the stuff that went down in the warehouse...yeah, not surprised stuff gets trashed in transit.

It sounds like a similar thing that happened to my ebay Classic, group head panel welds had broken apparently due to impact during transit.

I put rivets through the holes in the chassis as advised in this thread, so it all worked out fine. I'm sure your classic will live again!

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27696-Gaggia-Classic-Outer-Shell-Panel-Question

The seller ended up getting a full refund by Parcel Force (which I was NOT expecting due to totally inadequate packaging), but it did take 3-4 months for the claim to go through.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

My farther sent me his Pavoni Euro a few weeks ago in France. He wrapped it well and the machine me is pretty much all metal. They must have dropped it off a cliff as they managed to bend the back of the tank where the steam arm attaches.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

That's horrid too, Nopapercup. grrrrr some more.

We sent a small oak table we sold on eBay (about as big as a sewing machine box) a couple of years ago. Packed with almost a full roll of bubble wrap and into a strong box it went.

When it arrived it had turned into a tray. It looked like the fork lift prongs had banged down on top of it. We managed to claim half the selling price but that wasn't the point.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Well ive bought two gaggia classic over the internet and thy both survived transit.

One had to be sent back twice to gaggia for repaiars under warrantee and was intact after those transits too.

They were all in the box they come in. I keep all my boxes and packing for things ive bought, my loft is insulated with them.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

What's even better in France, when I went to the post office to complain they shrugged their shoulders and said it was my fault for posting something valuable.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

The number of stories you hear about this kind of thing is unbelievable. The couriers literally could not care less, they ignore "fragile" and literally kick boxes off the back of vans. T&Cs exclude almost everything, and they have a ridiculously short time window to claim to catch anything else. I now wouldn't ship anything that was breakable or worth more than I'm prepared to lose. Having had my Mazzer Mini go missing in transit I collected my 65E and R58 in person, and would not ship either. This is the only reason I've still got the 65E - I refuse to ship. My E37s was shipped from Portugal with DPD and that went very well though in fairness. I have a friend who hand builds expensive valve-based audio amps, and the number of those that land in the US in pieces, even though they ship in expensive custom made flight cases, it's enough to make him think about closing the business as most of his customers are export.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

PHB1969 sorry to hear your troubles..

I had a different set of troubles with FedEx, but should be thankful that nothing got broken in transit. My problem cost me not in damages, but a return flight ticket to Hong Kong, where I flew to in order to pick up the machines that I was told were awaiting collection, when in reality it was still stuck in the uk!

Never believe those automated delivery status emails!


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

rippolaris said:


> That's a real shame mate. At least you're doing the right thing sorting the buyer out.
> 
> I worked for a delivery firm many years ago and saw some of the stuff that went down in the warehouse...yeah, not surprised stuff gets trashed in transit.
> 
> ...


thank you. I need a quote for the claim - got all the pictures.....just need that then should be done.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

PHB1969 said:


> I advertised my Gaggia classic as collection only but agreed to post to @Rakesh.
> 
> Courier suggested by Rakesh was DPD and I insured the item for full sale price of £110
> 
> ...


Second this. I have a broken Piccino. Carried by a man and Van not even a mass courier.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Just look at this











If a box with a heavy espresso machine falls like that, I'm not surprised


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Likewise: one of my Kinu went missing with DHL. The other one survived transit. Christian from Kinu has shared with me some photos of the state some of the Kinus arrived in the USA... not good. :-( and they are packaged really well and secured in their own carrying frame! Curriers are totally careless it seems.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

@Stanic that video . . . I'm beyond words (well, ones I can print, anyway).


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

a nightmare that is going on probably everywhere and every day

after seeing that video, I understand how the water tank of miss silvia got cracked..but how did they manage to unscrew the shower screen is a mystery to me


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

....and they seem proud of their behaviour...nice!

i was out yesterday and there was a DPD van delivering, only noticed it because there was a loud bang as he dropped a parcel onto a sack trolley....must have been heavy (and probably broken too!!)


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

I seriously thought about doing what this chap did (when I had to fly my Synchronika)

In the end I rolled the dice and checked it in at the airport. Short flight, but upon arrival I could definitely see the outer box had deteriorated to the point where it is now useless. Now I know why Bella Barista put the already a big box into another bigger box!

The case is expensive and heavy, but if the machine is expensive enough, at some point it becomes a worth while investment.

Those of you with a super high-end espresso machines (thousands of quid) wanting to take it with you to your summer holiday house in Southern France should look at this 

(hold on.. If you are rich enough to have a villa, don't bother with a case.. Just buy another machine and leave it there!)


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## Grimley (Jan 18, 2015)

Well my faith in UPS as a courier was well & truly (crushed) today. My order from the post office shop (2 items) both boxes were damaged, they looked as though both had been trod on. Also, Said post office shop didn't wrap them sufficiently for transit either. 1 box was refused & I'm now awaiting a refund. The contents of the other item was OK but that's beside the point. So I've ordered the item that was refused from Amazon instead, at least they wrap a lot of their items sufficiently even though it wasn't the cheapest. Needless to say it's left a bad taste in my mouth & I won't be ordering from the Post Office shop Again. I've also sent & received plenty of Items via UPS, this is the first time this has happened to me.


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

All claim information has been supplied to DPD. Awaiting a response. @Rakesh - waiting for confirmation from you that the item has been posted back, insured and waiting for tracking information. Not sure why it should take so long - my despatch to you was extremely prompt.....


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

PHB1969 said:


> All claim information has been supplied to DPD. Awaiting a response. @Rakesh - waiting for confirmation from you that the item has been posted back, insured and waiting for tracking information. Not sure why it should take so long - my despatch to you was extremely prompt.....


So sorry mate, just had a bit of a crazy busy past couple of days. Packing tape is bought and machine is all packaged up ready to be shipped today, soon as all is posted I will send you tracking details via WhatsApp.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Hope you can fix the machine.

If you photos / details of what's wrong with it on here I'm sure there's folk on here that will help out.

Let us know how you get on


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Machine posted via parcelforce 48hr and tracking number provided, best of luck fixing the machine.


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Machine received back.....missing a number of items. Pressure gauge, adaptor, non pressurised double basket, full seal kit, sachet of descaler. Have contacted the buyer (who got a full immediate refund) to ask for the return of the items.....


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

@PHB1969 Can I please clarify if the intention is to return the machine to @Rakesh once fixed?

If not, then Rakesh - please return all missing items to PHB1969


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Not returning to the buyer.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Glenn said:


> @PHB1969 Can I please clarify if the intention is to return the machine to @Rakesh once fixed?
> 
> If not, then Rakesh - please return all missing items to PHB1969


All items have been found and are packaged up ready to be sent off tomorrow, I apologise to @PHB1969 for any inconvenience, I didn't realise I still had some bits in my draw! Sachet of descaler is no where to be found and I don't recall even seeing descaler in the box but am willing to reimburse price of a sachet of descaler to settle any dispute.

Rakesh


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Have had a message from buyer saying items are ready to be returned. Happy for you send a payment for the missing sachet. Can you suggest an amount @Rakesh


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

PHB1969 said:


> Have had a message from buyer saying items are ready to be returned. Happy for you send a payment for the missing sachet. Can you suggest an amount @Rakesh


£5 posted on eBay for 5 sachets of puly descaler, so I'll send £1 over on PayPal now.


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Rakesh said:


> £5 posted on eBay for 5 sachets of puly descaler, so I'll send £1 over on PayPal now.


Thank you


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Buyer now suggesting that they send items back but not using first class delivery...despite the fact they hadn't returned them when they should....apparently all subject them having the right change. when suggesting they use a bank card they have "lost" it.

2nd class postage will not cover the replacement value of the items. I have requested first class posting and proof of postage


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Item has been posted via royal mail 2nd class, proof of postage has been provided


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

For transparency - Pic of receipt received. Had asked for first class with appropriate insurance as they would have been here now and would have been appropriately insured if returned with the original package. It's a shame really, given an immediate refund was processed, that the courtesy is not reciprocated........


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

There is no need to air this on the Forum, I am sure if the item had been properly packaged it would have more than likely got there intact in the first place. Jut saying


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## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> There is no need to air this on the Forum, I am sure if the item had been properly packaged it would have more than likely got there intact in the first place. Jut saying


That may well be the case and we all live and learn. Take a look at the video earlier in the thread - not much could survive the treatment some packages get.

my learning from this is don't post coffee machines and don't let anyone change your mind on that unless they are prepared to take 100% liability. Check all courier exemptions - not just T&Cs. Packaging may help but it's not 100% guaranteed (again other folk have mentioned that in this thread)

I had a quick look at the machine last night and have riveted the group head plate back into position using the 6 holes. Tightened the 4 Allen bolts holding the boiler assembly on as they were all loose. Tested in that condition last night and have hot water through the group head and steam through the steam wand. There appears to be an orphan earth floating around....I will check where that earths to and there should be life in the old machine yet.

with any luck it will be up for sale again, collection only and a contribution to the forum when sold.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is a lottery. I have sent many many machines and grinders and even when packaged properly, you do get the odd one being damaged. A couple of years ago I was sending a test machine back to BB. The courier arrived at 9am and he had made no drops. Where he thought he was going to put the machine you tell me. He eventually lifted the 25 kilos onto the very top of the packages, which were all higgledy-piggledy. I said do you really think that is good enough? The next stop when you open the curtains that will fall off. I rang BB to tell them and of course the machine was in bits when they received it back. £1700 worth.

A Classic ought to be fairly easy to pack. The secret, is to make sure that the machine cannot move within the packaging and is double boxed. If it cannot move then that stops a lot of damage but if it is dropped from a height, there is not much you can do. Plenty of couriers do insure coffee machines


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Can't help but wonder whether you'd get a better service from a Shipley.com driver. At least you can speak to the guy that will be picking it up and delivering it to discuss its weight, value and fragility.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Obnic said:


> Can't help but wonder whether you'd get a better service from a Shipley.com driver. At least you can speak to the guy that will be picking it up and delivering it to discuss its weight, value and fragility.


My Piccino was destroyed by an anyvan driver...


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