# Extraction help required plz



## Thecatlinux

Been throwing a lot down the sink, I am losing heart to be honest.

up and down the grinder till I got to what I thought would be a level ground

16g in 25.5g out at 25 seconds , but I am still feeling like its under extracted getting not a harsh sourness but a little bit at the beginning , it's not unpleasant and is drinkable but still no depth or mouth feel to the shot . If I go finer it takes a lot longer to come through 55seconds for 1:1 ratio and the results are really quite bitter.

Mazzer super jolly are the notches a big step moving one notch at a time?

How much will my tamping affect the outcome i have been trying to be consitant and the pucks all look good so no signs of channelling ?

are the beans too close to roast date smokey barn Brazil fazenda Passeio RD 7april

really have been trying a consistent technique.

in need of a lift guys as I am losing heart, milky drinks are fine but really would like a decent espresso,

I know the classic is a well respected machine by others on this forum but I have lot a bit of confidence in its stability , I am aware the weakest link in the chain is probably me but with so many variables i need to try master and rule out as much as possible.

hopefully its something obvious, but any ideas would help.


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## Mrboots2u

Ok beans are ok in terms of roast date. How are you storing them ?

Are you using a naked pf ? Why i ask because A lot of times "chasing " grind can be due to channeling or dead spots in extraction , which will effect taste.

Can you put a clip up of an extraction and prep?

Distribution will be effect extraction and taste more so than tamp pressure..

Are all your drinks " disappointing " or is it just this bean recently?


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## Glenn

Temperature may be your enemy

Are you temp surfing?

Are you flushing?

Are you pulling shots first before steaming? (or the other way around)


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## xiuxiuejar

Which machine are you using? Is it a Classic? If it's a classic get to that point where you were pulling 25 second shots (with a firm but not over eager tamp) and before pulling the shot, flush the machine for 4 or 5 seconds. Then as soon as the light comes on, pull your shot. The biggest problems you could have are tamping too tightly or heat.


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## xiuxiuejar

Glenn beat me to it!!!!


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## Daren

What tamper are you using and how do you tamp? If you can master this area of your prep it makes a massive effect on your consistency.

You have to get this nailed and from there you can tweek the other variables


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## coffeechops

It's probably a bit hard to judge from just one shot. Can you make the same drink - grounds in weight, espresso out weight, time - every time? If you can, then you can start changing parameters to make it taste better (to your liking), and if it then fails to taste good you will know the machine or some other piece of kit is letting you down. If you can't get absolutely repeatable results, then, well, it's probably you 

That said, for me it was a PID that eventually brought it together. I spent a couple of years temp surfing, getting exactly the same extractions but with differing taste. The PID fixed that.

Bottomless portafilter also made a massive difference to my ability too - I could see how inconsistent I'd been in prep immediately. A buddy called it a 'training handle'...


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## Daren

What machine are you using? How do you ensure correct temp each time?


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## xiuxiuejar

Also, depending on the roaster, Brazil Fazenda can be very acid and 'harsh' - so temperature is all important. Without wishing to start a war, if it is from Has Bean, your coffee will always be 'lively'. If you wish a deeper taste, try a chocolatey coffee from a roaster such as Coffee Real or Rave. And just persevere till you discover the types of coffee and technique best for you.


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## Thecatlinux

Not surfing the temperature , always flushing through and keeping everything nice and clean not really eyeing many clumps but I have tried stiring up with a toothpick prior to tamping , but to be honest not making much difference

I went form naked back to spouted portafilter because I thought that be the difference , screen is clean basket is clean leaving the machine on for long period to get nice and warmed up tried 16 grams tried 18grams

beans kept airtight in thier bag sealed up when not in use, dosed gind every time .

posting up a clip would be a nice option but need to account sorted first, have some of the naked and everything looks ok (quite good if I say so myself)

the spouted starts fine nice and thick but the streams thins quite quickly around 10-12 seconds


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## Thecatlinux

Daren said:


> What machine are you using? How do you ensure correct temp each time?


 Sorry its a classic i flush the group through the portafilter nearly half a cup or till runs clean prep shot put handle back in about tens second and then hit go . Red light on.


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## xiuxiuejar

Where are you getting the coffee?


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## urbanbumpkin

It is frustrating but stay with it. Sounds like it could be potential channelling. Difficult to tell without seeing it. Is it possible to post a video of you shots including shot prep with the naked PF.

If anything it just to rule out some of the variables.


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## Mrboots2u

I find it hard to tell what's going on from a puck after extraction, I'm not sure there it's as much use as looking at how the extraction pours from a naked PF ( channeling dead spots etc ) .


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## xiuxiuejar

I'm with Mrboots - having read his technique it's likely to be the coffee. I'd recommend starting with some darker, less acid roasts - or even something like a Columbian which is not the best for espresso but is very even. The Fazenda is very acid anyway and hard to balance.


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## Thecatlinux

xiuxiuejar said:


> I'm with Mrboots - having read his technique it's likely to be the coffee. I'd recommend starting with some darker, less acid roasts - or even something like a Columbian which is not the best for espresso but is very even. The Fazenda is very acid anyway and hard to balance.


I was was thinking Rave Italian job ????


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## urbanbumpkin

Thecatlinux said:


> Sorry its a classic i flush the group through the portafilter nearly half a cup or till runs clean prep shot put handle back in about tens second and then hit go . Red light on.


That sounds identical to how I use mine, that should be fairly consistent on the temp for every shot.


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## xiuxiuejar

For my money Rave are great. I love the medium dark roasts. I've tried all the espresso blends and they are all correct - perfect for balanced espresso but for my taste they lack 'personality'. The problem with personality is that it is quite often in the form of acidity. I think the Italian job is a good place to start and the go from there.


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## garydyke1

xiuxiuejar said:


> Also, depending on the roaster, Brazil Fazenda can be very acid and 'harsh' - so temperature is all important. Without wishing to start a war, if it is from Has Bean, your coffee will always be 'lively'. If you wish a deeper taste, try a chocolatey coffee from a roaster such as Coffee Real or Rave. And just persevere till you discover the types of coffee and technique best for you.


Fazenda = farm

Your comment about Has Bean isnt accurate at all


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## xiuxiuejar

garydyke1 said:


> Fazenda = farm
> 
> Your comment about Has Bean isnt accurate at all


I was making the point that for me the Brazils were often acid especially when light roasted. I too buy some coffee from Has Bean but I know from experience and from reading other people's views on here that people find their lighter roasts very 'lively'. I also had a Classic and I found it even more difficult when using the lighter roasts to get a deeper, balanced espresso. It's all about tastes and in my opinion Thecatlinux will enjoy his coffee more if he tries a deeper roast.


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## garydyke1

Thecatlinux will enjoy his coffee more if its properly extracted.

Brazils are often very low in acidity, full of sweet chocolate and very forgiving. Lets make the roast darker is a cop-out and avoiding tackling the issue


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## xiuxiuejar

garydyke1 said:


> Thecatlinux will enjoy his coffee more if its properly extracted.
> 
> Brazils are often very low in acidity, full of sweet chocolate and very forgiving. Lets make the roast darker is a cop-out and avoiding tackling the issue


I think we should just agree to disagree. In the end everyone has their own tastes and ways of doing things. Most Brazil coffee has chocolate, you are right but most are 6-8 on the acidity scale too and they can be very acidic. I'm not being critical of anybody, not you, not Has Bean I am just offering my opinion and don't want to cause offence in any way.


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## garydyke1

I think it's pretty crazy to go from 25 seconds to 55 seconds in shot time (is a notch a big grind setting change) and then decided all Brazils are sour and only certain roasters fit peoples tastes .

Am I alone here banging my head on the table ?


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## Xpenno

As a former Classic owner I would be checking/doing the following.

Running the shot a little longer (up to 30 seconds) - to try and achieve higher extraction (not going to help much if temps are not right)

Not running as much water through the group for the flush - The classic had quite a small brew boiler from memory and if you are half filling it with cold water then you are going to run into issues. If you want to clean the group then you can flush a second of water and wipe with a cloth.

Try forcing the machine into a boiler re-heat cycle and pull the shot right at the end of the cycle.

If it's still tastes sour then at the end of the brew boiler re-heat cycle stick the steam heater on for 10-20 seconds just to give it a boost.

How old's the machine? Did you own it from new? Could it have a faulty thermostat? Try and find someone with the kit to measure water temperature at the group.

Ensure shower screen is clean and you've been back flushing regularly - could result in bad tastes.

Good luck! You should be able to make great tasting espresso with those beans, certainly not sour or acid in my experiences.

Spence


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## xiuxiuejar

I didn't say that exactly. I was giving my opinion on his situation. I like acidity in my coffee and often buy Brazilian coffee. I also love the very acidic Kalossi Toraja and I even like Kenyan as espresso where many roasters that say it is unsuitable. It's all about personal taste. I would bet that he will pull - for his tastes - a much better shot with Rave's Italian Job, which I find lacks personality but which is loved by many many people as a stock espresso.


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## Marian

I have to say that I totally agree with xuxujar. I have often found Brazilian coffee quite sour and I must say that Has Bean is not for me. I am not saying they are bad or intolerable, however, I do not think that lighter roasted coffee beans offer the classic espresso flavours. I also think that coffee is about enjoyment and not reputation and I believe that each of us must go the way of our tastes and that there is enough choice out there for everybody to be happy. You should not be jumping on somebody just because they say something you do not agree with.


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## El carajillo

Having tried Has Beans offerings on two separate occasions I have found them to be too lightly roasted and much too acidic, this is also evidenced by other forum members opinions.


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## Thecatlinux

Whoa guys didn't want to start a row, was just looking for some pointers to put me on track.

To keep the record straight and for clarity they are not has bean offering but as mentioned in my first post smokey barn.

I am quite confidant about the beans I have , I just think I am not getting the best out of them.

don't know if I am not grinding right or extracting correctly (temperature maybe )

i am sure i am missing something , you have given me something to think about, but I am lost will give it another go tmz


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## Thecatlinux

garydyke1 said:


> Thecatlinux will enjoy his coffee more if its properly extracted.


 Do you think I need to concentrate my efforts on extraction ?


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## xiuxiuejar

Firstly, You can never be wrong in trying to improve your technique. Without seeing your technique it's hard to say really but you have said you weigh your dose, you timed an extraction to 25-28 seconds and you flushed the machine. The biggest weakness of the Gaggia (and I loved my Gaggia) is temperature and certain bean profiles need certain temperatures for extraction - with my machine, I find that even a degree makes a huge difference to some coffees, especially those with acidity of 5+ on the cupping notes, or those that lack a mid-range flavour. If temperature is your real problem with these beans, then you may find it difficult to rectify with the Gaggia. Another thing I would say is that with the mazzers, you have to adjust very very slightly. What Gardyke said about going from 25 seconds to 50 is very true. I think you were in the right ball park technique and grind wise with the 25 second pour, maybe you needed to decrease temperature a little or the tamp slightly but if you did not actually like the coffee, you may just need a different coffee.


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## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> Do you think I need to concentrate my efforts on extraction ?


Short answer Yes , it will stand you in good stead for whatever roast of bean you want to try then ,and allow you to to try a variety of roasters confident you can pull the best flavours from.

Pucks won't tell you a lot , a naked pf will., and are pretty to watch









If you had one I'd ask you to show a clip of your extraction and prep and we can see IF any channeling or dead spots are contributing to the extraction times and tastes of your shots.

From there we could go to changing the extraction to see if we can make it sweeter etc depending on times and doses .

Are you finding same dose , same tamp is pulling different extractions one after the other .

If so it's more likely the distribution in the basket ( than say the tamp pressure ).

Perhaps a classic owner will lend you one on here .


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## DavecUK

If you are using a lightly roasted Brazilian coffee, your best bet is probably to try an extraction at the hotter end of the scale and extract a little more...the lightly roasted brazil is going to be very bright as a tight Ristretto. More heat and a bit more length to the shot should help.


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## Thecatlinux

I can get consistent amount out within 25secs I will try something a bit cooler tmz to see if it makes a difference.

Not sure how easy thats going to be with the classic but will give it a go


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## xiuxiuejar

DavecUK said:


> If you are using a lightly roasted Brazilian coffee, your best bet is probably to try an extraction at the hotter end of the scale and extract a little more...the lightly roasted brazil is going to be very bright as a tight Ristretto. More heat and a bit more length to the shot should help.


This is the classic response to acidic coffees, more heat, finer grind, firmer tamp but it may just give you more extraction difficulties with the Classic. Worth a try though as Dave is completely right technically. May be worth going against all the Gaggia wisdom and not flush before. See if that extra heat helps.


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## garydyke1

El carajillo said:


> Having tried Has Beans offerings on two separate occasions I have found them to be too lightly roasted and much too acidic, this is also evidenced by other forum members opinions.


I know! They should have gone out of business years ago with only several National and International competition winning coffees in their history.


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## Thecatlinux

Will try and post clips up , I will start back using the naked and go for longer extraction time .

Thanks for all your help and advice folks , it has lifted me back up and ready to go again .


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## urbanbumpkin

Agree with Boots, if you have a clip of shot prep and shot it would be worth having a look to see if there's anything obvious in there.

Just out if interest what basket and dose are you tending to be using. Apologies if you already said earlier.


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## xiuxiuejar

garydyke1 said:


> I know! They should have gone out of business years ago with only several National and International competition winning coffees in their history.


Come on Garydyke1 - there's more than one way to skin a cat.


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## garydyke1

Indeed and there are many many ways to ruin a filet steak before running to the butcher to claim theres something wrong with the quality of the meat. Wheres MWJB when you need a hug


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## xiuxiuejar

haha. Don't take everything so personally, Maybe you've had a little too much caffeine today!


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Indeed and there are many many ways to ruin a filet steak before running to the butcher to claim theres something wrong with the quality of the meat. Wheres MWJB when you need a hug


Hug...........

Not the same is it though









I could do a hug to satisfaction chart though would that help


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Hug...........
> 
> Not the same is it though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> I could do a hug to satisfaction chart though would that help


Does it involve a horse?


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Does it involve a horse?


Good memory ....

Not all my diagrams involve horses or lemons .

Gonna get my etcha sketch .....


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Good memory ....
> 
> Not all my diagrams involve horses or lemons .
> 
> Gonna get my etcha sketch .....


Weak lemon drink! aka Third wave coffee


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## xiuxiuejar

garydyke1 said:


> Weak lemon drink! aka Third wave coffee


hahahahaha - that's a classic!


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## Xpenno

For me lighter roasts took me a lot longer to get working in the cup. I found them are harder to extract, they were be more temperamental in the basket and they require more care in the prep stages to fix these issues. With some time and effort spent I think you should be able to get them working for you (provided the classic is up at 94c) and I think you will enjoy what you taste when you get there. Having said that, you may not like it when you get there and that's all the fun of the fair!


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## Charliej

As a *FORMER* member of the Has Bean knockers club I have found that having a machine and grinder that can do the coffee proper justice makes a hell of a difference. I've recently been drinking some far far lighter roasts as espresso and in milk and by carefully picking the coffee have found that it isn't all a case of light roast = acidic. Last week I went through a bag of Costa Rica Don Jose from The Barn roastery in Berlin, they roast in a Nordic style i.e. shower the coffee in factor 50 suncream before roasting:


__
https://flic.kr/p/13931694672

It was an absolute pig to dial in, but I eventually got it sorted and it was sweet with the flavour of raw sugar cane almost to the point where it could have almost had sugar in it taste wise, there were hints of acidity but not to the extent where it tasted anything even close to those foul Haribo sour sweets.


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## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Indeed and there are many many ways to ruin a filet steak before running to the butcher to claim theres something wrong with the quality of the meat. Wheres MWJB when you need a hug


I've had a couple bags of beans from Hasbean when I first started out and I didn't get on well with them. I'm also a massive fan of Rave Coffee.

However I have subsequently had a couple of Hasbeans Jail Break espresso's at 6/8 Kafe which I thought were excellent. So I'm willing to give them another chance and give the lighter roast a decent try.

Gary....any bean recommendations to save someone from pure dark side would be greatly appreciated.


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## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> As a *FORMER* member of the Has Bean knockers club I have found that having a machine and grinder that can do the coffee proper justice makes a hell of a difference. I've recently been drinking some far far lighter roasts as espresso and in milk and by carefully picking the coffee have found that it isn't all a case of light roast = acidic. Last week I went through a bag of Costa Rica Don Jose from The Barn roastery in Berlin, they roast in a Nordic style i.e. shower the coffee in factor 50 suncream before roasting:
> 
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/13931694672
> 
> It was an absolute pig to dial in, but I eventually got it sorted and it was sweet with the flavour of raw sugar cane almost to the point where it could have almost had sugar in it taste wise, there were hints of acidity but not to the extent where it tasted anything even close to those foul Haribo sour sweets.


Good call Charlie, I do wonder if I would get on with the same coffee that I do now if I still had my classic/rocky combo.


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## Thecatlinux

Now if I go for a darker roast what you have all tried and found easy to use .............


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## Thecatlinux

It was going to be a kilo of rave Italian job


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## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> It was going to be a kilo of rave Italian job


Try something medium , in the middle and keep everyone happy









Extract original


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## garydyke1

No one said it was ever going to be easy on cheap equipment .


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Try something medium , in the middle and keep everyone happy
> 
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> Extract original


Quality blend for the middle of the road . And a good discount code right now too !


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## garydyke1

urbanbumpkin said:


> I've had a couple bags of beans from Hasbean when I first started out and I didn't get on well with them. I'm also a massive fan of Rave Coffee.
> 
> However I have subsequently had a couple of Hasbeans Jail Break espresso's at 6/8 Kafe which I thought were excellent. So I'm willing to give them another chance and give the lighter roast a decent try.
> 
> Gary....any bean recommendations to save someone from pure dark side would be greatly appreciated.


Extracts El Salvador. cup of excellence, Bello Horizonte espresso is a cracker .

Has Bean David Vilca washed amazing .

John Gordons Square Mile espresso UKBC coffee , if the filter one is anything to go by , will be insanely good !


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## Thecatlinux

garydyke1 said:


> No one said it was ever going to be easy on cheap equipment .


 Thanks for your honesty


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## Mrboots2u

Plus one on the the extract cup of excellence ,it's lovley,plummy and bonkers good .

Even Daren liked it /)


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## Thecatlinux

Does anyone know When you order 1kg from rave is that in one bag or 4x250g ?


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## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Extracts El Salvador. cup of excellence, Bello Horizonte espresso is a cracker .
> 
> Has Bean David Vilca washed amazing .
> 
> John Gordons Square Mile espresso UKBC coffee , if the filter one is anything to go by , will be insanely good !


I can vouch for the first two, superb coffee.

I'm guessing the last is a big hint to get get it open and get round to play on the EK?


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## urbanbumpkin

Thecatlinux said:


> Now if I go for a darker roast what you have all tried and found easy to use .............


Italian Job is great value, I like the Rwanda Gisuma Red Bourbon. Had some great shots with it using the Classic. Jagong Village and the Cuban Serrano I liked too.


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## Xpenno

Thecatlinux said:


> Does anyone know When you order 1kg from rave is that in one bag or 4x250g ?


I ordered some a while back and it was 1 x 1KG bag.


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## Geordie Boy

Xpenno said:


> I ordered some a while back and it was 1 x 1KG bag.


That's ultimately how they help keep their 1kg prices low


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## urbanbumpkin

Thecatlinux said:


> Does anyone know When you order 1kg from rave is that in one bag or 4x250g ?


I think they tend to be 1x kilo bag from memory.


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## Thecatlinux

Tomorrow is a bank holiday , 20years ago everyone headed to the coast on a bank holiday , when you're all heading to the coast tomorrow feel free to drop in and show me where I am going wrong with the classic , I have various beans but if you wanna bring your own feel free .

HAPPY EASTER FOLKS


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## Mrboots2u

Happy Easter back at ya!!!


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## Xpenno

I love a happy ending!

Happy Easter all.


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## Geordie Boy

Thecatlinux said:


> Tomorrow is a bank holiday , 20years ago everyone headed to the coast on a bank holiday , when you're all heading to the coast tomorrow feel free to drop in and show me where I am going wrong with the classic


That's just reminded me that I live in one of the places furthest from a beach in the UK


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## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Extracts El Salvador. cup of excellence, Bello Horizonte espresso is a cracker .
> 
> Has Bean David Vilca washed amazing .
> 
> John Gordons Square Mile espresso UKBC coffee , if the filter one is anything to go by , will be insanely good !


Cheers Gary. Cup of Excellence sounds good, am willing to give it a try in a "Pepsi Challenge".

Happy Easter all!


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## Mrboots2u

urbanbumpkin said:


> Cheers Gary. Cup of Excellence sounds good, am willing to give it a try in a "Pepsi Challenge".
> 
> Happy Easter all!


Don't forget the extract banner for 20 pc of £20 up there somewhere .....


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## urbanbumpkin

Geordie Boy said:


> That's just reminded me that I live in one of the places furthest from a beach in the UK


I think I might beat you in the landlocked stakes by about 15 miles. Weston Super Mare mud flats is about the closest for me


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## Xpenno

urbanbumpkin said:


> Cheers Gary. Cup of Excellence sounds good, am willing to give it a try in a "Pepsi Challenge".
> 
> Happy Easter all!


I want to order some Extract beans but couldn't get up to £20 as I've got other beans in the pipeline. If you fancy putting in a bulk order then drop me a PM and we'll get it sorted.


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## urbanbumpkin

Xpenno said:


> I want to order some Extract beans but couldn't get up to £20 as I've got other beans in the pipeline. If you fancy putting in a bulk order then drop me a PM and we'll get it sorted.


Cheers Spencer, really decent of you.


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## Geordie Boy

urbanbumpkin said:


> I think I might beat you in the landlocked stakes by about 15 miles. Weston Super Mare mud flats is about the closest for me


Going by this site, I work out it's somewhere in the Coventry/Kenilworth/Meriden triangle at ~93 mile. Note the distance to a beach is different to the longest distance to the sea which is Church Flatts Farm near Ashby-de-la-Zouch


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## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> Ashby-de-la-Zouch


My home town!


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## Geordie Boy

Xpenno said:


> My home town!


Is it as posh as the name suggests?


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## garydyke1

Not if you pronounce it Azjboy dur lah zoooch allroight


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## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Not if you pronounce it Azjboy dur lah zoooch allroight


LOL....it's one of those places that I've always seen on maps, never been to and never known anyone that from there.

I along with Geordie Boy I thought it must be uber posh, the sort of place that Jane Asher would live.


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## Geordie Boy

garydyke1 said:


> Not if you pronounce it Azjboy dur lah zoooch allroight


LOL, confirms my suspicions with the large Tescos there also giving it away. If it was posh they'd have built a Waitrose by now!


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## Thecatlinux

Just take me outside and shoot me...

Heated the classic up this morning picked up what I think is a triple basket snapped it into the naked handle , threw 18g of the same beans as yesterday into the jolly, didn't time it didn't weigh the output but the shot was great, none of the sharpness of yesterday just deep thick yummy just what I was looking for coffee.

now to see if I can repeat it .

Now was it the beans or the basket ?


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## Mrboots2u

Or the temp or the distribution or length of shot









Or first shot of the day syndrome


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Or the temp or the distribution or length of shot
> 
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> Or first shot of the day syndrome


 Go away you!

I don't know whether to be chuffed or even more frustrated i dare not pull another one just yet as I am not sure I could repeat it .


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## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> Go away you!
> 
> I don't know whether to be chuffed or even more frustrated i dare not pull another one just yet as I am not sure I could repeat it .


Sorry wasn't taking the Michael , just saying lots of variables .to contend with in my usual dry unwitty way









At least you know the beans make a good tasting drink !


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## Thecatlinux

On a foot note one mistake i made this morning was when I weighed the bean the shot glass i weigh them in was damp and as a consequence the beans got a little damp, I was going to chuck them but as my sink has had more coffee than me as late i just went with it.

????


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Sorry wasn't taking the Michael , just saying lots of variables .to contend with in my usual dry unwitty way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> At least you know the beans make a good tasting drink !


Thats true at least i can rule out the beans


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## Thecatlinux

Thecatlinux said:


> Thats true at least i can rule out the beans


But added the factor of basket size


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## El carajillo

But did the "moisture" make the difference??


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## urbanbumpkin

You mentioned a triple basket. What sort of basket is Gaggia standard or a LM Strada type one? Or even better where did you get it from.

Apologies if this tips you over the edge.


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## Thecatlinux

View attachment 6411
View attachment 6412


Got loads of baskets with the machine which I bought off the forum , none of them have any writing on them so do not know their origin.


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## urbanbumpkin

The one on the left looks like it could be a triple. It might be worth dropping the seller a PM to see if they can confirm.

Anyone else any ideas on these?


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## Thecatlinux

Getting better results using the bigger basket (triple) and naked handle at least i have ruled out the beans from the equation .

may have something to do with better dispersion Between shower screen and puck ??


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## garydyke1

Thecatlinux said:


> Just take me outside and shoot me...
> 
> Heated the classic up this morning picked up what I think is a triple basket snapped it into the naked handle , threw 18g of the same beans as yesterday into the jolly, didn't time it didn't weigh the output but the shot was great, none of the sharpness of yesterday just deep thick yummy just what I was looking for coffee.
> 
> now to see if I can repeat it .
> 
> Now was it the beans or the basket ?


Without measuring output you cannot be certain this is simply a better extraction %, ie you ran a more appropriate amount of water through the coffee. The hole size and uniformity in the basket may have aided a better extraction?


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## Geordie Boy

Thecatlinux said:


> Got loads of baskets with the machine which I bought off the forum , none of them have any writing on them so do not know their origin.


The one on the left is a dead ringer for the triple basket you get with the Naked Portafilter from Happy Donkey. I'm assuming you have a naked portafilter with your classic?

It's about the same dimensions as a 20g VST but holds a little bit more


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## urbanbumpkin

Cheers Geordie.


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## Thecatlinux

Yes I got a naked with the machine and like you I should imagine it came from happy donkey


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## Thecatlinux

garydyke1 said:


> Without measuring output you cannot be certain this is simply a better extraction %, ie you ran a more appropriate amount of water through the coffee. The hole size and uniformity in the basket may have aided a better extraction?


I will try and replicate the shot later this afternoon

last one was 18g in and 41g out at 25 seconds

still a better tasting shot than yesterday , so obviously something i have done has changed it

difference(s) from yesterday

basket size and basket

naked handle

beans are a day older

as a foot note I have noticed the triple basket has straight sides and double is tapered at the bottom , I am using motta 58mm convex tamper ( not sure all this makes a difference but thought I would say )


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## garydyke1

Thecatlinux said:


> last one was 18g in and 41g out at 25 seconds


Thats a 2.3 ratio, perhaps that particular coffee is happier pulled longer. At least youre enjoying the coffee more : )


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## Thecatlinux

Yeah all is not lost , finding it a steep learning curve with so many variables but need to cut my teeth first before giving into the upgradeitis bug . (So tempting at the moment with a few machines up for sale in the sale section).


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## Mrboots2u

Good machines on sale. Easier to make coffee on better machines as takes away the temp variable.


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Good machines on sale. Easier to make coffee on better machines as takes away the temp variable.


ME THINKS : You are playing devils advocate .


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## Charliej

To Thecatlinux,

Just so you know it's not just you we all struggle from time to time on some coffee beans, particularly if we have recently upgraded parts of our setup, I had a bag of rather expensive German roasted coffee recently that I really really struggled with, it was particularly annoying because I only had the 1 250g bag and around 6 shots or so were anything but great, but it was an amazing coffee once I got everything dialled in.


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## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> ME THINKS : You are playing devils advocate .










fact , to quote one the the uk's biggest coffee geeks

" espresso is hard "

Removing the variable nature of temperature on extraction from a classic , leaves one less thing to worry about ....

Temp stable machine Needs to be part of a the whole package though.

Good fresh beans

Good barista

Good grinder

Good machine

In that order


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