# Rocket Evo V2 or Alex Duetto iV



## Homie80

Hi All,

I am upgrading my aging Rancilio Silvia (purchased back in 2008) to either the Rocket Evo Cellini V2 or Alex Duetto IV.

As my coffee output is roughly 4 cups of Latte/flat white, is it worth spending the extra on the Duetto IV?

The espresso that is brewed must be pretty similar between the 2 I presume?

Any help would be most thankful as I am entering a whole new world of machine!

Thanks.


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## Obnic

That's a nice conundrum to have


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## MrShades

The Rocket looks like a nice machine at a good price - but it's an HX, so you need to be OK with the shot-pulling routine including the requisite cooling flush.

I faced a similar predicament when I bought my Duetto, and the things that swung it for me included: dual boiler (so no cooling flush and better temp stability) and PID (better temp stability and easy to change brew/steam temperature).

I don't drink many milk based drinks at all, only really when I have guests, so the ability to run purely with the brew boiler on - and steam boiler off - was a good point for me.

Ultimately I just wanted a dual boiler with a PID - as I couldn't be bothered with cooling flushes and wanted the best level of temp stability available. Without a PID I'd always be wishing I had one.

Obviously they are both tank/plumbed switchable and both are rotary pumps. Both have E61 group heads and the steam/water wands and controls look very similar.

I'd go dual boiler if I were you - but the price difference is quite significant and would bag you a great grinder (what are you grinding with now?)


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## Homie80

MrShades said:


> The Rocket looks like a nice machine at a good price - but it's an HX, so you need to be OK with the shot-pulling routine including the requisite cooling flush.
> 
> I faced a similar predicament when I bought my Duetto, and the things that swung it for me included: dual boiler (so no cooling flush and better temp stability) and PID (better temp stability and easy to change brew/steam temperature).
> 
> I don't drink many milk based drinks at all, only really when I have guests, so the ability to run purely with the brew boiler on - and steam boiler off - was a good point for me.
> 
> Ultimately I just wanted a dual boiler with a PID - as I couldn't be bothered with cooling flushes and wanted the best level of temp stability available. Without a PID I'd always be wishing I had one.
> 
> Obviously they are both tank/plumbed switchable and both are rotary pumps. Both have E61 group heads and the steam/water wands and controls look very similar.
> 
> I'd go dual boiler if I were you - but the price difference is quite significant and would bag you a great grinder (what are you grinding with now?)


Thanks for the advice!

I am currently getting my grind from my local deli who grind up their expresso beans to order -

I know not ideal for freshness etc.


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## DavecUK

Lemme just throw another machine into the mix...consider the Verono DB over the Duetto...Verona is the better of the 2 dual boilers.



> I am currently getting my grind from my local deli who grind up their expresso beans to order -
> 
> I know not ideal for freshness etc.


not it's not.....get a decent grinder and proper fresh espresso beans....otherwise, you will just have a really good machine for turning shite, into shite...it's that old formula P20T=S

Dave


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## Homie80

DavecUK said:


> Lemme just throw another machine into the mix...consider the Verono DB over the Duetto...Verona is the better of the 2 dual boilers.
> 
> not it's not.....get a decent grinder and proper fresh espresso beans....otherwise, you will just have a really good machine for turning shite, into shite...it's that old formula P20T=S
> 
> Dave


Ok great, lot's of extra choice.

Next up, longevity of these higher spec espresso machines - My current Silva has now rusted nicely on the steel frame (common I know) since 2008, can I expect a similar or better lifespan? I'm pretty religious about keeping things in great nick and a water filter would always be used.


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## coffeechap

If properly looked after these machines will last a long time, if the frame on the silvia was rusting it wasnt kept dry, which is done after you have pulled your shots. Getting into the habit of a routine with cleaning and maintenance will stand you better in the long term.


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## Mrboots2u

Please build the grinder into your budget this is absolutely essential ....


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## MrShades

My Duetto Mk2, around 4 years old, is used every day -powered up and hot for at least 7hrs every day (and double that at the weekend). It still looks as good as new and works perfectly in every way. I'm not expecting to need to replace it for many years. (Needing and Wanting being two different things!).

The Classic that I owned previously wasn't nearly as solid - these >£1K machines are in another league.

As boots says, build at least £250 into your budget for a good used commercial grinder. Significantly more if you want 'new'.


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## Thecatlinux

RE : Rocket HX cooling flush, if that's all that bothers you don't worry about it as it's not that big of an issue.

iMO Giotto rocket rather than Cellini .

Like others have said don't overlook the Grinder , many people on here can hook you up.


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## 4085

When the man who designed the Duetto, tells you that the Verona (that is also his baby) is the better machine, then why consider anything else? You would not know this of course, but, DavecUK is that man!


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## Jason1wood

I agree with a Verona, I got advice of DavecUK and his knowledge of machines is second to non.

Here a little bit of espresso porn


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## Homie80

Thecatlinux said:


> RE : Rocket HX cooling flush, if that's all that bothers you don't worry about it as it's not that big of an issue.
> 
> iMO Giotto rocket rather than Cellini .
> 
> Like others have said don't overlook the Grinder , many people on here can hook you up.


Each to their own! I prefer the clean straight lines of the Cellini though, kitchen is minimalist so not too much jutting out here and there.


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## Homie80

Jason1wood said:


> I agree with a Verona, I got advice of DavecUK and his knowledge of machines is second to non.
> 
> Here a little bit of espresso porn
> View attachment 6777


Nice setup Jason1wood.


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## Jason1wood

Will be changing at the weekend, in place of the Super Jolly, there'll be a RR55 grinder


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## MrShades

Just out of interest, any reason why you're swapping to the RR55? I assume it's the OD version and you want an OD grinder - cus just about everything else about it is similar to the SJ.

(Not that I've ever used an RR55, but have owned an SJ for a few years).


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## Xpenno

I played with the Duetto and the Verona side by side and walked away with the Verona. I also played on a Rocket a couple of weeks back and wasn't impressed with the build quality, it felt cheap compared to both the Duetto and the Verona, I'm glad I didn't get one when I was in the same boat as you.

If you can get to Bella Barista then they usually have plenty of machines out to have a look at. It's amazing how your opinion can change when you see them in the flesh and even more so when you get a pull some shots on one.

Where are you in the country?


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## Thecatlinux

I love the look of the Alex but the price is not far off an L1


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## Jason1wood

MrShades said:


> Just out of interest, any reason why you're swapping to the RR55? I assume it's the OD version and you want an OD grinder - cus just about everything else about it is similar to the SJ.
> 
> (Not that I've ever used an RR55, but have owned an SJ for a few years).


I've owned the SJ for about a month and wanted to compare against the RR55 plus I've never owned an OD grinder and the opportunity arose to buy one on Saturday, so one will be going at the end of the trial.


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## MrShades

Interested to see how you get on with that comparison and which one goes. Have fun!


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## 4085

There is nothing to compare. An SJ is miles behind an RR55 in every single way, and that will be apparent from the first shot ground!


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## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> There is nothing to compare. An SJ is miles behind an RR55 in every single way, and that will be apparent from the first shot ground!


Interesting, on paper they seem quite similar. Wonder was makes the rr55 produce better espresso, can't find much info on it.


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## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> Interesting, on paper they seem quite similar. Wonder was makes the rr55 produce better espresso, can't find much info on it.


Better design of the exit chute from the burrs for starters, but tbh it has to be down to the burrs. When I was talking to CC about OD candidates for my grinder upgrade and asking about a K30 and he said that I wouldn't see much of a difference in grind quality and consistency for the price difference so read into that what you will, but he also is of the opinion the RR55 is better than the SJ. I do know that my RR55 did a very good job for me whilst I owned it.


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## Jason1wood

I'm quite new to the 'Titan' grinders, if you can class them as that.

My previous grinders were a Gaggia MDF & Rancilio Rocky, so love the SJ but by saying, compare, I really am comparing them to what I've previously used. Never owned an OD, so looking forward to giving it a go.

I'll just have to keep the 'K class' grinders out of eye shot. Haha


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## Homie80

Xpenno said:


> I played with the Duetto and the Verona side by side and walked away with the Verona. I also played on a Rocket a couple of weeks back and wasn't impressed with the build quality, it felt cheap compared to both the Duetto and the Verona, I'm glad I didn't get one when I was in the same boat as you.
> 
> If you can get to Bella Barista then they usually have plenty of machines out to have a look at. It's amazing how your opinion can change when you see them in the flesh and even more so when you get a pull some shots on one.
> 
> Where are you in the country?


Based in London.

I do personally prefer the styling of the Duetto over the Verona though - it is best to see all these machines together before dropping a few big £££.


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## Gangstarrrrr

Jason1wood said:


> I'm quite new to the 'Titan' grinders, if you can class them as that.
> 
> My previous grinders were a Gaggia MDF & Rancilio Rocky, so love the SJ but by saying, compare, I really am comparing them to what I've previously used. Never owned an OD, so looking forward to giving it a go.
> 
> I'll just have to keep the 'K class' grinders out of eye shot. Haha


Don't think the SJ/RR55 is classed as a Titan grinder in the traditional sense.


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## Jason1wood

I know, but they're Titan to what I've previously had. That wasn't the desired effect of the post, that's why I put Titan on inverted commas.


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## coffeechap

83 mm and above!!!!!!


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## Xpenno

Homie80 said:


> Based in London.
> 
> I do personally prefer the styling of the Duetto over the Verona though - it is best to see all these machines together before dropping a few big £££.


Exactly mate, it would be pretty boring if everyone's tastes were the same! I'd advise getting to see all options if at all possible.


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## jeebsy

The ladies love 83 mm burrs


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## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> Better design of the exit chute from the burrs for starters, but tbh it has to be down to the burrs. When I was talking to CC about OD candidates for my grinder upgrade and asking about a K30 and he said that I wouldn't see much of a difference in grind quality and consistency for the price difference so read into that what you will, but he also is of the opinion the RR55 is better than the SJ. I do know that my RR55 did a very good job for me whilst I owned it.


Thanks Charlie. Wonder if the RR burrs would fit in an SJ? Grind path aside it might be a possible upgrade as RR55's seem a bit harder to come across than SJs. Anyhow, this is well off topic so I'll let the guys get back to discussing the cream of home espresso


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## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> The ladies love 83 mm burrs


The problem is that my Mrs tried out the 98mm burrs and now 83mm just doesn't do it for her.

Back on topic now, promise


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## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> The problem is that my Mrs tried out the 98mm burrs and now 83mm just doesn't do it for her.
> 
> Back on topic now, promise


Dont tell her about the 120mm beast


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## jeebsy

Ron Jeremy has 120mm burrs


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## Homie80

Hey coffeechap, I noticed you sold the Giotto version, how did you find this machine and can I ask why you sold it after 1 month?

Thanks.


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## Daren

Homie80 said:


> Hey coffeechap, I noticed you sold the Giotto version, how did you find this machine and can I ask why you sold it after 1 month?
> 
> Thanks.


That's quite a long time for CC! He changes machines more often than his underwear (With the exception of the L1.... and I'm not convinced the one he has now is the one he started with?)


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## Thecatlinux

Homie80 said:


> Hey coffeechap, I noticed you sold the Giotto version, how did you find this machine and can I ask why you sold it after 1 month?
> 
> Thanks.


 It's gone to good home


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## jeebsy

Have you got it yet?


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## coffeechap

it has gone to a good home, i had the opportunity to have a play with it but pump machines are just not my thing. very observant daren you are


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## Homie80

Thecatlinux said:


> It's gone to good home


How do you find it? What did it replace?

You got a great deal!


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## Thecatlinux

Homie80 said:


> How do you find it? What did it replace?
> 
> You got a great deal!


I have just replaced my classic for this , all I can say is it hasn't disappointed me not one little bit, I have had loads of friends over to come and see it and I have been pulling shot after shot every night and it hasn't missed a beat.

I thought long and hard Between a dual boiler and a HX machine , but after to talking to a few people and looking into the possibility of buying one i took the plunge , No regrets what so ever .

I am not saying I wouldn't buy a dual boiler i really would , I can see that some of them are right at the top of the game for pump machines but they come with a £2k price tag. Coupled to that a decent grinder and you have made a big financial commitment . Which IMO i would only do that if I was going to keep the machine for a very long time.

And from what I have seen and learnt so far and if I was going to make a long term commitment to a machine for that kind of money it would be an L1 without any hesitation !

I don't know where you are but if you want to see the rocket in action I will quite happily make you some coffee with it .


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## Thecatlinux

jeebsy said:


> Have you got it yet?


Oh yeah !!!!!!!


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## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> Thanks Charlie. Wonder if the RR burrs would fit in an SJ? Grind path aside it might be a possible upgrade as RR55's seem a bit harder to come across than SJs. Anyhow, this is well off topic so I'll let the guys get back to discussing the cream of home espresso


They're left rotation rather than the right rotation that Mazzer use







I'll have a poke around and see if there is anything RH rotation that L or GEV do that looks a similar Burr to the RR55, they do have more breaking teeth and a smaller pitch between cutting edges than the standard RR45-65 dosered version burrs that offer SJ performance.


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## Homie80

Thecatlinux said:


> I have just replaced my classic for this , all I can say is it hasn't disappointed me not one little bit, I have had loads of friends over to come and see it and I have been pulling shot after shot every night and it hasn't missed a beat.
> 
> I thought long and hard Between a dual boiler and a HX machine , but after to talking to a few people and looking into the possibility of buying one i took the plunge , No regrets what so ever .
> 
> I am not saying I wouldn't buy a dual boiler i really would , I can see that some of them are right at the top of the game for pump machines but they come with a £2k price tag. Coupled to that a decent grinder and you have made a big financial commitment . Which IMO i would only do that if I was going to keep the machine for a very long time.
> 
> And from what I have seen and learnt so far and if I was going to make a long term commitment to a machine for that kind of money it would be an L1 without any hesitation !
> 
> I don't know where you are but if you want to see the rocket in action I will quite happily make you some coffee with it .


Thanks for the offer, I'm a bit too far for a test. I'll probably go up to Bella Barista and check out all 3 machines.


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## coffeechap

you wont check out the lever machine at bella barista and if you are going to spend nearly £2000 there really is only one choice at the moment in my lever blinkered eyes.


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## Jason1wood

Don't listen to CC, he's biased, completely blinkered isn't the word. Haha

Seriously though, we can all recommend machines we own or have used etc and CC has used most of them so he knows what he's talking about, but there's no substitute for having hands on experience yourself.

One mans treasure is another mans rubbish. Or something like that.


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## coffeechap

i have owned the rocket though


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## Thecatlinux

Homie80 said:


> Thanks for the offer, I'm a bit too far for a test. I'll probably go up to Bella Barista and check out all 3 machines.


I'm sure BB is a good place to go , but as said at least 100 times on this forum Dont forget to budget your grinder into the package , maybe worth asking for advice of which quality/standard of grinders are good pairing for each machine. Coffee chap is the probably the person to speak too about that one .


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## Thecatlinux

coffeechap said:


> i have owned the rocket though


 On the day though if I had the money I would have taken the L1 , although I have to say in the rockets defence it has far far exceeded my expectations my knock drawer and my latest coffee order would confirm this.


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## Homie80

coffeechap said:


> you wont check out the lever machine at bella barista and if you are going to spend nearly £2000 there really is only one choice at the moment in my lever blinkered eyes.


Interesting CC - I have looked at the l1 on the Londinium website, a very nice machine - do you know if there are any offers or group buys happening anytime soon??

Also, another reason for interest in the Rocket Evo 2 is the less lead parts in the boiler (according to marketing blurb).

Do the l1 and Duetto have similar less lead leaching components?

Thanks!


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## Charliej

Homie80 said:


> Interesting CC - I have looked at the l1 on the Londinium website, a very nice machine - do you know if there are any offers or group buys happening anytime soon??
> 
> Also, another reason for interest in the Rocket Evo 2 is the less lead parts in the boiler (according to marketing blurb).
> 
> Do the l1 and Duetto have similar less lead leaching components?
> 
> Thanks!


If you are really that worried about look for something with stainless steel brew and steam boilers.


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## Glenn

I wouldn't worry about the lead parts issue Homie. None of us have died from using these machines.

I own an Alex Duetto Mk IV and would happily recommend it. Top machine, faultless (after a year of constant use and abuse)


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## Mrboots2u

Homie80 said:


> Interesting CC - I have looked at the l1 on the Londinium website, a very nice machine - do you know if there are any offers or group buys happening anytime soon??
> 
> Also, another reason for interest in the Rocket Evo 2 is the less lead parts in the boiler (according to marketing blurb).
> 
> Do the l1 and Duetto have similar less lead leaching components?
> 
> Thanks!


As far as I know the price of the l1 is the price of the l1, there are no offers or discounts to be had or negotiated .


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## drude

The discount is that you won't lose money buying something and then selling it later to upgrade to the L1









To be serious, it's a machine that if properly looked after could last a lifetime, and it doesn't disappoint on any level


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## jeebsy

LOL @ L1 group buy


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## coffeechap

Homie80

If you want to buy the best compact machine for the home then unfortunately it comes at a premium that premium is £1950 and is worth every penny of that, from time to time they come up second hand, but get snapped up exceptionally quickly even at £1600 !!!. The quickmill might be an option for you but that is a little way off (mods being done to improve it). Based on your original post about what your expectations of coffee are, you will not get a better machine at delivering that expectation from a machine under £2000 than the Londinium 1. I really dont think you would get a group buy on it either as we would probably need at least 5 people to secure any discount but more likely 10.

I seriously think you should get some time on some quality machines and as I said before you are more then welcomr to make the effort to come over swindon way to try one out, or I believe Reiss has offered for you to go across to wimbledon to get a go on his.


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## Homie80

coffeechap said:


> Homie80
> 
> If you want to buy the best compact machine for the home then unfortunately it comes at a premium that premium is £1950 and is worth every penny of that, from time to time they come up second hand, but get snapped up exceptionally quickly even at £1600 !!!. The quickmill might be an option for you but that is a little way off (mods being done to improve it). Based on your original post about what your expectations of coffee are, you will not get a better machine at delivering that expectation from a machine under £2000 than the Londinium 1. I really dont think you would get a group buy on it either as we would probably need at least 5 people to secure any discount but more likely 10.
> 
> I seriously think you should get some time on some quality machines and as I said before you are more then welcomr to make the effort to come over swindon way to try one out, or I believe Reiss has offered for you to go across to wimbledon to get a go on his.


Thanks CC for broadening the horizon with the mention of the L1 previous posts!

I originally looked at the Elektra leva machines back in 2008 as loved the styling so the Londinium L1 is now in the selection process.

It is now convincing the budget conscious other half that it is the way to go with the 65e grinder.


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## Homie80

Glenn said:


> I wouldn't worry about the lead parts issue Homie. None of us have died from using these machines.
> 
> I own an Alex Duetto Mk IV and would happily recommend it. Top machine, faultless (after a year of constant use and abuse)


great, good to know!


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