# insulating boilers?



## novex

hi all, new to this forum and just wondering about this.

i just received my new (bought at auction 2nd hand) San Marino 1group machine, after plumbing it into a water reservior (5l bottle, since its complete overkill machine for my home) and getting it all up to temperature and working nicely i notice that a LOT of heat is released out the top to the cupwarmer tray.

I'm aware this is intentional and makes perfect sense for a cafe where the machine is designed for, however for a home scenario the wasted energy seems a bit much.

i was thinking about getting some armaflex tape which is designed for insulating hot pipes (rated up to 120c) and wrapping the main 5L boiler with it. obviously not covering any pressure release valves etc.

can anyone forsee a problem with doing this? all the temperature and pressure sensors are internal so wont be affected, and hopefully it should reduce the amount of time the heating element is on inside the boiler, while also making a "greener" machine.

PS: any mod who feels this is in the wrong place please move it, i normally hate on people who say this but it does look like the most sensible location to post this question.

cheers, novex.


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## Glenn

It's welcome to stay in the this section, and good on you for looking to make your machine greener.

I'm sure one of the resident engineers will be able to point you in the right direction.


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## chrisweaver_barista

I will need some confirmation on this, however I think that you would need something rated to a higher temperature. When I used to use a PID'd La Spaziale, we had it set-up anywhere between 115 and 120, meaning the brass itself will be nearing that.

There are certainly a lot of people who have insulated their boilers however with higher rated insulation materials, so from a practical point of view, it is certainly viable and apparently a great way of both reducing energy usage not to mention preventing sweaty baristi in the summer!

Hope I could help a little









Chris


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## oldroaster

I would think that rockwool/glassfibre would do the trick. It will certainly stand 200-300C with no problem. Cover with good quality aluminium foil to hold the particles in and job done. Pretty sure that armaflex tape is rated less than 100C more like 85C.


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## oldman

I did notice http://www.pidsilvia.com/insulation.htm has pre-cut insulating material for the Rancillio Silvia, but I was unable to find anything similar for the Gaggia Classic


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## antdad

That stuff is expanded close cell silicone sponge sheeting...no idea of cost but maybe someone might be willing to organise a group buy.

http://www.premiumsilicone.co.uk/products-silicone-sponge-sheet


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## RobD

Hi Novex

i did my second hand Expobar about 2 weeks ago, if you follow this thread its got pic's & a link to the foam

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?6582-It-lives-)


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## espressotechno

To my knowledge, no commercial espresso machines have any insulation in them: Just lagging the side & back panels would (a) keep these panels cooler (b) save electricity £p © still have plenty of heat for the top tray / cup warmer.

In these days of sky-high electricity costs, it's a no-brainer to insulate an espresso machine for just a quid.


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## RobD

espressotechno said:


> To my knowledge, no commercial espresso machines have any insulation in them: Just lagging the side & back panels would (a) keep these panels cooler (b) save electricity £p © still have plenty of heat for the top tray / cup warmer.
> 
> In these days of sky-high electricity costs, it's a no-brainer to insulate an espresso machine for just a quid.


My issue with this method is that while it may well keep the side panels cool and the cup warmer warm, it will also keep the electronics, valves & just about everything else at a high saturation temp, if you can keep the heat where its needed in the boiler and HX pipes then yes your cups may not be quite as toasty but the system will be a lot more efficient.


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## rmat

I insulated my Isomac boiler last year using ironing board underlay fixed with cable ties and haven't had any problems. £6 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Minky-Deluxe-Felt-Pad-Ironing-Board-Cover-125cm-x-45cm-/230661438668


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## PolarBearDave

I ended up double insulating mine. Used the silicone kit from PID Silvia with a Radflek outer to reduce the radiative losses (was given some free by the council to put behind the radiators - this was obviously a better use for it!). However, I found that the inside of the case still got a bit warm when steaming for my Arduino controller, so I squeezed in lumps of loft insulation to make a barrier. Don't know what it's called but it's the modern alternative to fibreglass which doesn't shed the fibres. Tested it didn't melt with a 300C soldering iron so should be fine. All pretty cosy in there now!

















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## cjbailey1

I was wondering how insulating the boiler on a non-PID'd Silvia would affect temperature surfing. Has anyone done it? I would imagine that my technique will have to be re-thought if I insulated.


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## RobD

I have been doing a little tinkering with my temp via the pressure stat on the Expobar and the recovery times, and 2 things have become apparent, if i have the insulation off the recovery time is about 3 seconds and withe boiler at 1.2bar if i leave the steam on i can get it to drop to 0.5bar after a while, with the insulation back on, the recovery time was a s short as 15 seconds and was virtually impossible to get it to go below 0.9 bar even after nearly boiling a pint of water.

So replaced the insulation and wound the stat down to 0.8 bar and it has about the same temperature recovery times as uninsulated around 35 secs, maybe a tiny bit quicker 26, and the boiler will drop to around 0.6 bar but goes back up when the element comes on even with the steam tap full on some the is a lot more energy retained,

This does suggest that if you do heavily insulate your boiler they you may have to re work your temp surfing until you find a new sweet spot.

this was not a scientific test by any stretch, times where done with my wrist watch and temp with a very simple thermometer.


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