# upgrade time (cafelat robot + bellman steamer vs la pavoni vs E61 machine)



## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

Title says it all, currently own a sage duo temp + niche zero grinder. Looking for an espresso machine upgrade. I normally do espresso but would reach for the steamer for a flat white every 2-3 drinks.

I normally make my coffee in the morning before heading out as well, which leaves me limited time to wait for heating up of the machine, especially a big E61 machine, although I have heard of people getting round it with a smart timer socket extension.

The robot does appeal to me as I would like to learn to use a lever machine as some point, and I find the hands on manual approach quite interesting. I already have a routine for v60, and I feel the routine for the robot is not that much more time consuming at all. the robot and bellman steamer combine comes just under a la pavoni machine in terms of price.

I was considering getting a E61 machine at some point but am now rethinking my options, as better models are considerably more expensive and I would need to save up for it, was previously looking at machines that would cost 1.2k-1.9k brand new.

I am also well aware that if i get a robot or la pavoni now, I may be itching to get a new machine later down the line anyway (hopefully 5 years later, instead of only 2 years like my sage DTP).

So any suggestions or advise are welcome.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

When you say every 2-3 drinks.... per day? Per week?


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> When you say every 2-3 drinks.... per day? Per week?


 Oh, I meant every 2-3 espressos, one would be with milk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TheHToad said:


> Oh, I meant every 2-3 espressos, one would be with milk


Let me ask differently....

How many espressos do you drink per day? You say "every 2 or 3" but you don't say how many coffees you make per day or per session (I.e: in a row).

For example, if you make 1 espresso per day, and drink s flat white every 3rd day, it's very different than if you make 15 espressos per day. Frequency is different from quantity!


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

Normally have 3-5 cups a day, but that also includes pour-overs

if espresso only, ranges from at least 1/day to 3/day on my own

different story if I have friends over


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

So, I have a La Pavoni, which I downgraded from an e61 machine.

The grinder is a Niche.

I would not recommend the Pavoni if you make multiple drinks in a row (e.g: friends, family). The Pavoni is great if you are the sole drinker in the house (ok, 2 max) and want to turn on, wait 10-15 minutes and make one or a couple of drinks. When my parents were around, I found using the Pavoni a chore rather than a pleasure. Saying that, some people have multiple baskets so they can pre-prepare them in advance and pull shot after shot. Of course, in the Europiccola, a maximum of 4 drinks can be made with a full tank, 8 with the Pro.

It was a different story with the dual boiler. It was a o,easier to make drinks in a row for friends and family, but, what I did not like was the size (I didn't mind, my wife didn't like the fact it took a big chunk of the kitchen), heat up time and maintenance. Apart from that, it was great.

As for the Robot + Bellman, great idea. But again, maybe for 1 person for the occasional drink. I'm the only drinker in the house, and I was thinking of a Robot just for the fun of it. Covid-19 got in the way though. :-(

If you enjoy a milk drink now and again, you alway get a dual boiler and only fire up the service boiler when you want.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So, I have a La Pavoni, which I downgraded from an e61 machine.
> 
> The grinder is a Niche.
> 
> ...


 I guess it comes down to how often I make it for other people then. From what you said, I guess both pavoni and robot would be great if I mostly make it for myself. It's a shame you didnt get your hands on the robot as well, otherwise I would've been able to steal all your insight to which to pick.

Assuming I want to go for a big machine, any recommendations? Which e61 machine were you on previously?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TheHToad said:


> I guess it comes down to how often I make it for other people then. From what you said, I guess both pavoni and robot would be great if I mostly make it for myself. It's a shame you didnt get your hands on the robot as well, otherwise I would've been able to steal all your insight to which to pick.
> 
> Assuming I want to go for a big machine, any recommendations? Which e61 machine were you on previously?


I had a Profitec Pro 700, a great machine.

If you are inclined to go big, do you research, and make sure you understand the machine architectures: Dual Boiler vs Heat Exchanger, how the E61 group works, it's maintenance, etc, etc. Watch videos, review, routines.

If lever is your thing, the Londinium machines are highly regarded here, and a few members here have L1 and LR machines, so plenty of advice.

A great problem to have for sure. Have you thought of the grinder? Don't overlook it!

Edit: just checked OP, you have a Niche Zero. All good then.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

I have a robot, and have had a DB E61 (Duetto)

The robot can make shots as good and even better than the E61 BUT I persoannly have (over 4 months) really struggled with consistency / repeatability (especially medium to lighter beans)

Sometimes the robot makes a shot better than anything I have tasted in years. I try to repeat it (scales, thermapen, Mazzer Mini with SJ burrs) and the next 10 shots are not-great to average - I'm getting a little frustrated, although I have learned a lot more about puck prep

I'm thinking about a Londinium or a DE1+ to try and get the great shots more often


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## mikeycoffee (Oct 1, 2020)

Hello,

I am interested in the Robot, but a lack of consistency would frustrate me too. Have you managed to improve this at all, and how did you go about it?


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