# Just how good is this stuff ?



## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

So I haven't bought a machine yet, still in the research phase (but probably Classic/ MC2), but I'm wondering just how good this is going to be.

I like coffee, and I want a machine at home to try and recreate what I get in Coffee shops that I frequent, the favourite currently being Cafe Nero, then maybe Costa.

At the same time, people are telling me that my coffee (black americano/espresso) will be loads better than that - (supposing I get it right of course) better than starbucks, costa et al cos they are actually poor and don't do it properly, although I find that hard to believe.

Is the high street really full of rubbish coffee that we are all being ripped of for, should this really be where I'm setting my sights?

Or am I going to be wowed off my feet by my own amazingness and never want to set foot in these places ever again?

I'm just trying to get an idea of how much better it is going to be - as I currently produce worse coffee than Nero and Costa...


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I started my journey the same as you Andy, but having owned a classic for about 1 year I've upgraded, but even the classic outshone the so called coffee emporiums

I never go into them now. I give them a wide berth.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

+1 on that. Within a few weeks (trying one or two shots a day) I surprised myself at the quality of coffee was able to make. It was (and still is thankfully) comparable to the speciality coffee shops and WAY better than the high street chainers. They get away with murder. I can not bring myself to drink these inferior brews any more. I just wait til I get home. There really is that much difference...


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## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

andyt23 said:


> I'm just trying to get an idea of how much better it is going to be - as I currently produce worse coffee than Nero and Costa...


It's hard to describe accurately, you'll often hear machines spoken about as if they can cure cancer but the classic can do a good job it's just a lot more hard work than a more expensive machine. The cost reduction comes from the smaller size of everything, a tiny plastic drip tray, a crappy steam wand (which you can and should replace), a tiny boiler, a tiny tank, only being able to do a small number of drinks and then having to wait while it reaches steam temp to be able to steam milk etc.

I'm not saying the Classic is bad, it's just a question of if the compromises are right for your needs. Having been using one not too long ago I had no complaints about the quality of the drinks it produced, I was happily making drinks I enjoyed a lot more than anything I ever got out of Costa/Nero/Starbucks but the limitations of having to take out the stupid drip tray (which always results in a mess you have to clean up), waiting for steam etc pushed me to upgrading.

I should also mention the grinder is at least as important as the espresso machine, they're far less interesting devices and often quite ugly but they'll have a bigger impact on your coffee than the difference between similar espresso machines (imho).


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## Lighty (May 31, 2013)

I've not been a member here long but would echo the above ...

one of the key issues is the grind

once ground you need to use the ground beans instantly ... Wait until your Kitchen smells of freshly ground coffee, as the aroma & oils released need to be captured very quickly in the liquid

look in the doser of the grinder the next time you're in the high street and guess how long the grinds you are being served have been sat there .....

i joined here when my classic died and have only just bought a replacement

it cost more, but as I drink milk based predominantly, the steaming ability was an issue with the classic for me

it will cost a few hundred pounds to start up but the results are worth it

you won't believe how bitter the high street stuff tastes compared to making your own drinks at home!

i must admit now that if the craving strikes I will find an m&s as the other big 2 just don't cut it for me, and it is the best of a bad bunch in my town ... And we don't have a cracking independent :-(

now there's an idea ....


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## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

Like many, I started with that combo, still have the Classic, but have upgraded my grinder.

I got fantastic results with that setup and I would say you don't need any more to get you going.

What really key is to have really great quality beans to brew with - any of the site sponsors should sort you out. I use Coffee Compass and love the stuff I get.

I'd go for that setup, grab a selection of beans from a selection of roasters, and experiment! It's a fantastic journey that'll never end


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Eveb within the first few days of having my classic and mc2 I was doing as good shots as Costa (so bad!) But even then my americanos tasted better than I had ever had.

Now my shots when they are good they are better then anything on the high street by a mile

Just be aware it takes time and effort but to most on here it is a hobby so thats not a issue


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## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

Go into a recommended independent coffee shop and try your regular drink from them. If you can notice the difference then this is on a par with what you can produce at home.Only downside is unless there is nowhere else and you need coffee desperately, you will not drink in the chains again!!!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Haven't been to a chain since getting my Classic in May. Well, I had one Nero as it was the only cafe after security in St Pancras and it just reminded me why I stopped going to chains.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Excellent! So what you're saying is it's a huge cost-saving exercise that I can use to justify all this to my wife (currently spend a tenner a week in starbucks because it's near the train station) it's paid for itself in six short months AND she gets awesome unlimited free coffee for ever cos I'll buy the beans and become a bit of a coffee hero. I may even start doing some washing up whilst I'm waiting for the machine to heat up... this is all really for HER!

sorted.

thanks for the replies everyone, this is a great place to find out so much stuff in so short a time


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Andy - buy it for her for Christmas and tell her you was only thinking of her


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Daren said:


> Andy - buy it for her for Christmas and tell her you was only thinking of her


A '*Personal Barista*' for Christmas. I like it.

I promised a long time ago I'd never by her kitchen appliances as gifts... it's all about presentation


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Don't think of it as a kitchen appliance... It's a life changing luxury item that elevates your social status and improves your well-being.

(Is that the sort of presentation you were thinking of?)


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

...Absolutely.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Just how good is this stuff?

Chain coffee = shit

Home coffee = the shit


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It's ALWAYS for her haha.

Making more than one drink at a time on the Classic is slow, but you can use that as an excuse to upgrade in a year or so


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Sounds like a plan - I drink more than she does anyway, except for lazy weekend mornings when time ain't so crucial.

It might start to irritate me in a year or so though...


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

andyt23 said:


> Excellent! So what you're saying is it's a huge cost-saving exercise that I can use to justify all this to my wife


You can use that to justify to your wife but truth be told, its a hobby / obsession which will cost you money. Theres every chance that you will upgrade your original setup, given time.

That said, there are more expensive hobbies and you will be drinking great coffee !


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

working dog said:


> You can use that to justify to your wife but truth be told, its a hobby / obsession which will cost you money. Theres every chance that you will upgrade your original setup, given time.
> 
> That said, there are more expensive hobbies and you will be drinking great coffee !


It's a cost saving exercise that can and most probably will empty your bank account lol, but don't worry if that happens you are in very good company here. There always seems to be something else you want or that will help you make your best cup of coffee ever. I can't stress enough that the grinder is an absolutely crucial part of the equation and when buy an entry level machine you should be spending more than the machine on the grinder, as you get to the machines that cost £1k plus you should be spending at least half the cost of the machine on the grinder if buying new. Fortunately we have a thriving for sale forum here where members sell their "old" gear once they have upgraded and bargains can be had, with the benefit of knowing the item has been owned by an enthusiast and will have been properly looked after.

Beans can be a potential minefield, as well as different roasters who can polarise opinion with the way they roast their coffee so it's a very good idea to try and work out what sort of tastes and flavours you prefer from your coffee, I don't mean artificially flavoured beans or sweet syrups. In the beans forum there is a thread titled UK Roasters have a look at that and just check out a few of the different websites, two that are currently very popular around these parts are Rave and Hasbean. Rave tend to roast on the darker side, but not charcoal like the chains have, and probably are the best choice for a more "traditional" tasting coffee, whereas Hasbean tend to roast on the lighter side, sometimes resulting in very bright tasting acidic coffee, which is not for everyone.

The minimum entry level sat up that tends to be recommended here is the Gaggia Classic and Iberital MC2 Auto grinder, you will also need cups, a decent tamper, a milk frothing jug, the steam wand on a Classic isn't great so most people modify this by adding a Rancilio Silvia version 1 steam wand, an absolute essential is a set of 0.1g accurate scales (can be found on ebay for around £5) and as a starting point I would suggest a kg of Rave's Signature Blend or Italian Job.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Cheers Charlie - I can think of lots of questions already, but I'm sure they are covered in technique threads you'll have elsewhere so I'll have a fish around on them.

I haven't even started yet and had to double my budget from what I originally thought (...I need a grinder?!?!







)

I hope to get my hands on a machine soon - I've written row n the name of the coffee you recommend, I can feel plenty of mad experimentation coming on


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## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

as Charlie said the grinder and the beans are very important.You will find as you read into it more that not only have you to buy freshly roasted they also need to rest for about a week to ten days before use.This ensures getting the best out of them.We all started at the same place and moved along, upgrading as need and finances allow.Rave Italian Job is a very forgiving bean easy to pull good shots.

Norry.


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

I used to love going into Cafe Nero but once you start making your own you realise how bad they are.

As everyone else has said the grinder and fresh beans are just as important, enjoy your journey.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

bignorry said:


> not only have you to buy freshly roasted they also need to rest for about a week to ten days before use.
> 
> Norry.


So if I buy online, does it tell you when they were roasted so you know they are fresh, or is that a given on such sites? and what counts as fresh?

Should I be asking when beans were roasted when I go to my local emporium for example, or will they only have fresh beans in stock at their shop?

I'm sorry, I really do know nothing...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Decent online roasters will give you the roast date of beans normally somewhere on the pack. Yeah I'd ask you local roaster when the roast date was , if they can't tell you would be a little worrying . Roasters should be able to recommend you rest times ( period from when roasted ) before you use a bean. Rave seem to respond the longer rest times (10 days ) . Londinium will say 2 weeks. others will advise depending on the brew method and type.


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