# Gaggia Classic tripping



## John of York

Hi,

I get the feeling this is going to make me look daft!

I have just dismantled my Gaggia Classic and stripped it down. I soaked the boiler and Group Body in a solution of Sodium Hydroxide to clean it. It has come up beautiful. I also cleaned the bottom of the boiler to a nice smooth finish. I replaced the O ring and then reassembled. I took photos before I took it to pieces so I'm pretty sure all the wiring is in the right place. Happy to supply photos if anyone willing to help.

Once all back together I switched it on and instantly the power tripped as soon as i flicked the power with (the left hand rocker) the red light came on for a milisecond and then it tripped.

I am no engineer but i guess that it is the elements that are tripping as they are the first thing to power up?

Have I damaged the element/connectors using the Sodium Hydroxide? I didn't clock until too late that the elements where on the outside (don't please).

Is it a new boiler situation?

Many thanks for any expertise and/or advice.

John


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## El carajillo

Did you submerge the complete boiler in cleaner ? including the terminals ??


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## John of York

Hi,

Thank you. Yes I'm afraid i did

Not all the time but the terminals did go under for a while.

John


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## El carajillo

I think you should prepare yourself for a new boiler. The elements inside are surrounded by an insulating material similar to chalk, if you get this wet it soaks up moisture like a sponge, the moisture then short circuits the elements to the boiler body tripping the circuit breaker.

The only way you "MAY" be able to recover it is to place it in a warm oven for several hours, this may be sufficient to drive out the moisture

Before you do this remove the thermostats and any other attachments or you will destroy them.

If you do require a new boiler contact Mark== gaggiamanualserve on the forum. He will be able to help you.


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## Chockymonster

There is a much easier way than sticking it in the oven. The only reason it trips is because there is a connection to earth.

Whip the top off and unplug the machine

If you remove the Earth connection at the rear plug and then plug the machine back in. You'll find it'll turn back on and heat up the boiler, drying out the insulation. As long as you don't put your hands in the machine or touch the sides it's perfectly safe. Just be sensible!

I had the same issue and this resolved it.


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## urbanbumpkin

How long did it take to dry out before you could reconnect the earth?

Unearthed machine scares me slightly, but I'm a chicken.


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## marcuswar

urbanbumpkin said:


> How long did it take to dry out before you could reconnect the earth?
> 
> Unearthed machine scares me slightly, *but I'm a chicken.*


Funny.. your avatar looks more like a dog ?


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## marcuswar

Just to scare you a little more, think about this scenario.

If the house earth is faulty (so not grounded) and you have a single appliance that develops a fault that causes it to short to earth, then ALL appliance in your house suddenly become LIVE (via the earth wire).


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## hotmetal

Strewth! I'd never thought of that. How many earthing points would a house normally have? I was under the impression that there are several earth straps to the water pipes, and they provide the earth where they come out of the ground. Or is that earthing the water supply to one big metal spike in the ground? I don't know much about house electrics.


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## marcuswar

Well thecatlinux is probably better qualified to answer this, but my understanding is normally the earth is connected to the supply earth and only in special circumstances (off grid ?) is it via a metal spike in the ground. The use of water pipes for grounding is quite common BUT with advent of modern plastic push fit connectors it's not uncommon for these connections to be compromised.


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## Chockymonster

urbanbumpkin said:


> How long did it take to dry out before you could reconnect the earth?
> 
> Unearthed machine scares me slightly, but I'm a chicken.


About 15 minutes. I just stayed well away from it whilst it was on and used the wall switch to turn it off.

Reconnected the earth, tried again, all good.

The problem happens when moisture gets between the heater element and the boiler case, causing the elements to short to earth and trip. Hence disconnecting the earth stops that, the boiler heats up, dries out the moisture and all is good.


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## John of York

Hi All,

Thank you all very much for helpful advice. The diagnosis was spot on. I tried the un -earthing option first as it was easiest! Machine fired up and as predicted the element terminals fizzed and frothed as water was expelled. I ran some water through and leftit for ten minutes to really dry out. Switched on again this morning to make an espresso and all works perfectly.

Thank you problem soved.

John


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## Chockymonster

Nice to hear it worked for you too!


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## marcuswar

Good to hear it's fixed. At least your pain has taught the rest of us what not to do and how to fix it if we do


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## DIY

urbanbumpkin said:


> How long did it take to dry out before you could reconnect the earth?
> 
> Unearthed machine scares me slightly, but I'm a chicken.


Morning all.. I did as ChockyMonster and MrShades suggested and it worked a treat...

To answer your question I fired the Classic up for all of 20 seconds - long enough to hear the water start to steam and bubble. I then allowed it to cool off an re connected the earth, all was sorted and it is running as it should.....(As discussed elsewhere I am sure the thermostat will kick in to prevent overheating.)

FYI my quest for sorting my tripping issue also derived from my replacing the steam valve and whilst I was about it I too submerged my boiler in a suspension of descaler etc....

Many thanks one and all for enabling me to sort my Classic in a speedy and timely fashion and not having to "bake" it at 300 degrees in this heat and possibly incurring my wife's wrath in the process...!


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## Schmy

After a clean of my GC it sounds like I have exactly the same problem as the OP.

I'm going to try the method described above but can someone tell me exactly what to do with the earth wire at the back? I am rubbish at DIY and frankly shouldn't be allowed near electrics so the thought of a metal box and unearthing it scares the bejesus out of me.

So the plug at the back has 3 wires and if I unplug the earth what should I do with the wire itself? Just leave it dangling in there? Wrap it up?

What about the lid? Does that go back on or do you leave that hanging off the side? And what about the earth wire attached to it? I presume since the earth from the plug is off it's not "doing" anything?

TIA


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## MrShades

Just leave the earth dangling - as its connected to everything out metal that you can see in there!

Same goes for the lid and you can leave it off or drop it back on - earth wire can be on or hanging

Have fun!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Schmy

MrShades said:


> Just leave the earth dangling - *as its connected to everything out metal that you can see in there!*


Can you clarify this please? I don't understand what it means


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## MrShades

Sorry - typo - everything ELSE metal...

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## Schmy

Sorry to be a pain but should the sentence read "Just leave the earth dangling - as long as it's not connected to anything else metal you can see in there!"?

Imagine for a second you're trying to explain this to your nan and you'll get some understanding on my abilities and understanding of electrics and DIY.


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## MrShades

The earth wire is electrically connected to everything that's made of metal inside (and outside) the machine - so just disconnect the earth wire as it makes no difference what it touches inside the machine. Hope this makes sense.

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## Schmy

OK ta makes sense now


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## jpaul__

Another forum thread had suggested putting hot melt glue on delicate threads, element connections

before acid baths to protect from erosion/moisture, a gun is relatively cheap £10.

Is this a good idea but how do you remove glue afterwards , or is there an alternative (almost want a

candle wax type material)


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## batkovan

I have signed in just to thank Chockymonster and El carajillo. I have struggled with the exact same problem and browsed through a lot of internet content regarding 'gaggia classic tripping the electricity' issue. Thank goodness I stumbled upon this thread. Thank you again for the spot on diagnosis and the easy solution!


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## Caff_Ian

Bit of an old thread but just wanted to thank Chocymonster and others for their advice to disconnect earth to dry out element after a rebuilt descaled gc boiler project. Gave it a few mins wnd watched the element sizzle as it burned off a litttl moisture (all this with mind hands safely away from the casing) After that, turned off machine reconnected earth and the machine no longer trips when turned on. I'll just add that I primed the boiler with the element terminals disconnected prior to all previous steps so not to overheat/damage dry boiler. Thanks


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## GrowlingDog

Wow, old threads are great. Having stripped and descaled my Gaggia I was having a similar issue.

Very nearly bought a new Rancilio.

Gaggia is working again, well it will be once I've stripped down the solenoid again.


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## espressotechno

Safer to wrap some insulating tape around the end of any loose electrical lead.

It's surprising how mobile such loose leads can become !


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## Bilgerat

Just a 'Thank-you' for the advice in this thread. Had exactly the same issue after a stripdown and thorough descale, and wouldn't have 'twigged' the cause without this. (knew it was the element shorted with a few kohms to earth, but didn't realise they were unsealed). All good now.


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## pev

Im perplexed reading this thread - are you guys lifting the earth from your machines on a permanent basis? That's a move that potentially results in a Darwin Award...

As for the earlier comment about copper pipes being used for earthing - they shouldn't ever be used for an earth. However, they have to be earth *bonded* as a safety precaution in order that if a piece of faulty electrical equipment in contact with the pipework became live, the RCD would protect you rather than a massive piece of copper in your house / building becoming live!


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## ashcroc

pev said:


> Im perplexed reading this thread - are you guys lifting the earth from your machines on a permanent basis? That's a move that potentially results in a Darwin Award...
> 
> As for the earlier comment about copper pipes being used for earthing - they shouldn't ever be used for an earth. However, they have to be earth *bonded* as a safety precaution in order that if a piece of faulty electrical equipment in contact with the pipework became live, the RCD would protect you rather than a massive piece of copper in your house / building becoming live!


Not permanently. It's just temorary while the insulation on the elements dry out if you've managed to get them wet during descaling.

So long as you don't touch the machine while the earth is disconnected,it won't injure you.

It's safer to just stick the boiler in a low oven for 15-30 min or even the whole machine in a airing cupboard for a few days but that's more labor intensive and/or more time consuming.


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## maps

I'm also chiming in to say thanks for the advice in this thread. I had the exact same issue and spent all afternoon pouring over the pictures i took prior to disassemble as well as circuit diagrams trying to work out where I'd messed up. ?☕


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## Kamtsa

Another heads-up that drying out the external heating elements if they got soaked in a strip down works perfectly. There are surprisingly many recommendations to "buy a new boiler" around, which for me at least spoils the fun of being able to repair almost all components of the rugged-design Classic, instead of ordering new parts.

The first time I got Gaggia heating elements wet it took me a while to realise the connection: fuse tripped <-- happened after water exposure <-- can heat with earth disconnected. But all that good info is already concentrated here in this thread, like temporarily disconnecting the heating elements connectors to give the pump a chance to fill the boiler, explaining the time difference reported above between seconds before elements fizzle/steam, and fifteen minutes before it got dry...


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## MartinJ

Thanks from me too. I had read this thread before I stripped down and descaled a boiler and so took care not to get the insulation wet. Of course it did get splashed and even though I wiped it dry immediately, the RCD in our consumer unit tripped as soon as I switched the machine on; very disconcerting.

But carefully removing the earth connection meant the boiler could heat up and dry out the insulator. There was no more tripping after I reconnected the earth; such a relief.


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## Zeak

I'd like to express my deepest respect to the person who suggested the method. Even after 2h in an oven and 3 days on the radiator it was still tripping the RCD. But a quick zap-zap and it's alive again! ?


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## Greasersgarage

Chockymonster said:


> There is a much easier way than sticking it in the oven. The only reason it trips is because there is a connection to earth.
> 
> Whip the top off and unplug the machine
> 
> If you remove the Earth connection at the rear plug and then plug the machine back in. You'll find it'll turn back on and heat up the boiler, drying out the insulation. As long as you don't put your hands in the machine or touch the sides it's perfectly safe. Just be sensible!
> 
> I had the same issue and this resolved it.


 I have just had the same issue, although I kept the water to a minimum around the thermostat while descaling, as soon as I tried your suggestion, there was a small hiss, a puff of steam from that area, and after waiting for approx 20 mins, I reconnected the earth back up and hey I'm brewing again, thank you so much for posting, glad I have joined this amazing group now.


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## Lee Griffiths

Old thread but just to leave everyone know this method worked .. Within 10 sec of disconnecting the earth a sizzling noise could be heard . I left it for 5 mins and now works perfectly .. I was on the verge of throwing the machine out .. Thanks all AMAZING


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## Jcoffee

I have sadly hit this same issue. After feeling super happy with myself for descaling a really neglected machine after plugging in... smoke... quickly turned it off.

However I'm using a step up transformer to use my uk bought gaggia in the us and the idea of removing the earth connection is a little too frightening to me.

Are there any safer techniques I can use when I have the luxury of time? Can I just leave it to dry out for a while or maybe deploy a hairdryer?


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## ChilledMatt

Jcoffee said:


> I have sadly hit this same issue. After feeling super happy with myself for descaling a really neglected machine after plugging in... smoke... quickly turned it off.
> However I'm using a step up transformer to use my uk bought gaggia in the us and the idea of removing the earth connection is a little too frightening to me.
> Are there any safer techniques I can use when I have the luxury of time? Can I just leave it to dry out for a while or maybe deploy a hairdryer?


You could remove the boiler and put it in the oven. Will probably take a fair amount of time though.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## El carajillo

Jcoffee said:


> I have sadly hit this same issue. After feeling super happy with myself for descaling a really neglected machine after plugging in... smoke... quickly turned it off.
> 
> However I'm using a step up transformer to use my uk bought gaggia in the us and the idea of removing the earth connection is a little too frightening to me.
> 
> Are there any safer techniques I can use when I have the luxury of time? Can I just leave it to dry out for a while or maybe deploy a hairdryer?


 When you say d-scale, do you mean in-situ using the water tank filled with descaling solution ? OR did you strip the machine down and fully immerse the boiler in d/scaling solution ?

If the former method, providing you did not get the terminals wet, you have a different problem.

If the latter it will need thorough drying out. As you are using a step-up transformer your supply to the machine will equate to approx UK voltage = the same danger.

YOU MUST NOT TOUCH ANY OF THE METAL WORK IF YOU DO THIS.


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## Jcoffee

I unscrewed the filter cap, removed the group head using an allen key and a wrench because it was caked on and then immersed the two parts. I left the boiler alone. The only thing I can think of is that water or descaling solution got into the boiler area or I was too rough when prying off the group head (which was super rusty and in dire need of a clean). With a brush I cleaned the brass part of the grouphead. After drying them out I put it back together and turned it on.

Water flow was good. Ran the steam wand.. then started to smell electrical burning smell

I dont know much about electrics but turning it back on after smelling smoke of any kind seems like a bad idea to me.

I unscrewed the top afterwards and smell was coming from the unit above the grouphead (i guess that's the boiler?) Nothing looked suspect with the wiring. Lots of old coffee grains in there so definitely not tight.

Right now Im resigned to calling it dead but I'd love to understand what might have gone wrong with my cleanup operation for future. I got ten years out of it so it was a good run.


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## ChilledMatt

Jcoffee said:


> I unscrewed the filter cap, removed the group head using an allen key and a wrench because it was caked on and then immersed the two parts. I left the boiler alone. The only thing I can think of is that water or descaling solution got into the boiler area or I was too rough when prying off the group head (which was super rusty and in dire need of a clean). With a brush I cleaned the brass part of the grouphead. After drying them out I put it back together and turned it on.
> Water flow was good. Ran the steam wand.. then started to smell electrical burning smell
> I dont know much about electrics but turning it back on after smelling smoke of any kind seems like a bad idea to me.
> I unscrewed the top afterwards and smell was coming from the unit above the grouphead (i guess that's the boiler?) Nothing looked suspect with the wiring. Lots of old coffee grains in there so definitely not tight.
> Right now Im resigned to calling it dead but I'd love to understand what might have gone wrong with my cleanup operation for future. I got ten years out of it so it was a good run.


So you only removed the shower screen (small scew in centre) and the shower screen holder (2 4mm hex bolts)? This should not have done anything to the electrics or even allowed water to get near any. Maybe the rough treatment that was necessary to get the shower screen holder off has started a leak within the machine.

Where are you located? Perhaps someone can take a look for you.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## El carajillo

He is in the USA (using step up transformer)


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## El carajillo

As @ChilledMatt said possibly your rough handling has dislodged / released something. Did you turn it upside down to clean and work on it ?

If you were splashing liquid about it could have dripped / run onto electrics.

With the M/ch unplugged and top off. examine the inside for loose connections, terminals hanging free and also examine the 4 boiler terminals and their connections , are any of them bent over ?.

With M/ch UNPLUGGED and top off ,switch on the M/ch. THEN briefly plug in and switch on at socket, see where smoke is coming from SWITCH OFF AT WALl SOCKET AND UNPLUG.

A photo of inside M/ch with indication of where the smoke / steam is coming from.


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## Jcoffee

Sharing photos in case they are helpful and help someone understand what not to do.

I did turn it upside down and reviewing my photos probably assumed it was more water tight than it actually was.

ive found somewhere that does machine servicing but gaggia is not one of their listed brands so I'm not holding my breath.


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## DirkE

I had the same problem with tripping,so I followed the advice to disconnect the earth wires and turned the Gaggia on for 15 minutes to heat up then re connected the earth wires and everything worked perfectly.

About an hour later I switched on the Gaggia and it tripped the fuse.

I guess I must have a slight leak somewhere that is not obvious does anybody have any ideas please.


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## pev

DirkE said:


> I had the same problem with tripping,so I followed the advice to disconnect the earth wires and turned the Gaggia on for 15 minutes to heat up then re connected the earth wires and everything worked perfectly.
> 
> About an hour later I switched on the Gaggia and it tripped the fuse.
> 
> I guess I must have a slight leak somewhere that is not obvious does anybody have any ideas please.


 Rule 1 : if you're not a fan of death by electrocution, don't disconnect the earth. It's tripping for a reason, and that reason is to not accidentally kill you...

If you're lifting the earth, and asking how to fault find, please take my advice and speak to a proper sparky...!


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## tyzer007

This is a great forum and this post was exactly what I needed. As with the original poster, I submerged the entire boiler in an attempt to give it a proper clean (which worked) - and then had the fault from the heating elements. Drying things out worked exactly

EDIT :- Removed fatal advice that others may take as "the correct solution/fix"


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## Bhodgson

Before you do anythin, read, and Absorb this post.


pev said:


> Rule 1 : if you're not a fan of death by electrocution, don't disconnect the earth. It's tripping for a reason, and that reason is to not accidentally kill you...
> 
> If you're lifting the earth, and asking how to fault find, please take my advice and speak to a proper sparky...!


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