# Upgrading Mara to MaraX - worth it?



## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Wondering if I'm overthinking this or not, I have the chance to sell my Mara and buy a MaraX for an uplift cost of around £200-250. If I'm correct, these are the benefits I'll get from doing so:



Brand new 2 year warranty (9 months left on my Mara)


No need to manage temps via flushes or fanning the group


More energy efficient - not sure by how much?


Quieter pump


Sharper looks (in my opinion)


Are there any glaring omissions from that list? I'm torn as to whether to twist from what I have and know or make the change based on the cost...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@pandabear:

Warranty... Yes. Bear in mind that, apparently, you will only benefit from the 2nd year of the warranty on new equipment (as of 1st April) if you take the machine to BB for service. Best to clarify with them for details.

Temperature management: Yes

Energy efficient... Negligible I'd say, if any. Not worth considering.

Quieter pump: Yes

BUT... Are you dead set on the MaraX? Could this be a good opportunity to maybe thing of something else, like, a Minima from BlackCatCoffee or even a Lelit Elizabeth? - Both dual boiler machines, appreciate they are slight more expensive though. Of course, it all depends on what you want.

Personally, I'd upgrade from a traditional HX machine to a DB or a MaraX any time. However, if you are considering the MaraX, please bear in mind some recent issues related to the temp management. Because it's an HX machine which tries to behave like a DB with clever programming and an extra temp probe, it's better if you work with the machine rather than against the machine. My understanding is that it has been some changes to the firmware since Dave's review according to some posts here, specially related to the boost after a shot. I know some people were having issues when steaming large amounts of milk.


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Pretty much my thoughts so far is what you posted above!

Interesting on the temp management - what do you mean by working with rather than against?

Further points to note to decipher decision better:



Max budget is £2-350 away from what I'm likely to get for selling my Mara, it would be my only upgrade in all likelihood (famous last words!)


It's only me that drinks coffee in the house, usually flat whites (circa 175ml milk steamed each time) and I make 1-2 cups a day


The machine is likely to be owned for 3-5 years before we potentially move and at that point it would be sold


Personally I don't think I'd benefit from a DB because it's only me drinking coffee. That plus cost.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> Pretty much my thoughts so far is what you posted above!
> 
> Interesting on the temp management - what do you mean by working with rather than against?
> 
> ...


 Very well. It's also only me drinking coffee in the house... And I have a dual boiler. 🙂 . I think that amount of milk should be OK with the MaraX. There's a thread here where some people were struggling steaming 250ml of cold milk, but some members don't have a problem. So something might have change at some point, or maybe not. It's not clear if there's been a change or an issue. All I know is that Bella Barista has been replacing the temp probes on some machines and it has fixed a lot of issues on some machines bought late last year.

With rather than against... So, after you make a coffee, you can wake the machine and the pressure will rise to 1.5 bar for steaming. But the machine will do so for a time and will start to wind down (in order to keep the group temp at bay). If you then try to steam more milk, or you try to steam a large amount of milk, you might still be steaming milk but the machine will be winding down, which is counter intuitive. From what you describe above though, you should be absolutely fine.


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Perhaps that wasn't a good analogy for not needing a dual boiler, but IIRC most of them fall outside of my budget which would still discount them either way? Also footprint is a big deal that I didn't mention - we have a small kitchen and the size of the Mara is about as large as I can afford.

Appreciate the points you made above, I too think I'd be fine. So overall worth the money in your opinion?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> So overall worth the money in your opinion?


 If you are unhappy with the traditional HX routine of cooling flushes, etc, etc, and also want a new machine, I'd say yes.

Just make sure you feed good water from the start to avoid having to descale.


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Right now I'm not using cooling flushes, I'm getting a desired brew temp by using a small fan to cool the group down to a target temp on the group thermometer and then pulling my shot after a small temperature rebound, as detailed by HowardSmith in his own thread (it works for me but it's a bit of a faff and requires a bit of micro-management in my workflow).

I've only had my Mara 3 months, bought it from the classifieds here. I think if I can upgrade for £200 then the additional warranty, subject to their new rules at BB as you say, plus the other upgrades is probably worth it if I'm planning to keep it for 2/3/4 years.

I use Ashbeck water cut with a bit of other bottled water to create an "optimal" mineral water input as detailed by another member's mineral composition spreadsheet and mixing matrix!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> Right now I'm not using cooling flushes, I'm getting a desired brew temp by using a small fan to cool the group down to a target temp on the group thermometer and then pulling my shot after a small temperature rebound, as detailed by HowardSmith in his own thread (it works for me but it's a bit of a faff and requires a bit of micro-management in my workflow).
> 
> I've only had my Mara 3 months, bought it from the classifieds here. I think if I can upgrade for £200 then the additional warranty, subject to their new rules at BB as you say, plus the other upgrades is probably worth it if I'm planning to keep it for 2/3/4 years.
> 
> I use Ashbeck water cut with a bit of other bottled water to create an "optimal" mineral water input as detailed by another member's mineral composition spreadsheet and mixing matrix!


 Looks like you know exactly what you want and have done your home work then! 👍

The HX is a simple design, and I read the thread to cool down the group with fans with interest, thinking of doing something similar to a La Pavoni. But as you say... The Faff... So I just treated myself and bought an Elizabeth. Couldn't be happier... But upgraditus is always around the corner 🤣🙂 (Have you seen the Lelit Bianca, the V-Vostok? 😂 )


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Oh for sure, I would almost certainly consider making the jump to a higher machine than the MaraX if a. we weren't seriously considering moving out of the country in 3-5 years time and b. we had a lot more counterspace in the kitchen. I came from a Sage to the Mara and I did a lot of reading on what the Mara (HX) does and how it functions, but not a lot of reading on the other alternatives. I think the endgame would be an all-bells-and-whistles DB machine, or at least something less "antiquated" than the HX format, but right now I'm very happy with a HX having got to know it. It's been good trying something new and going out of my comfort zone with it, frustrating at times but ultimately more rewarding.

Those two machines you mentioned do look mega!


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

I would investigate other UK suppliers of Lelit products as well. Doing so you may discover that an Elizabeth is barely more expensive than a MaraX, and offers some advantages regarding temperature management of both boilers, pre-infusion, etc. while being fairly compact. It may not have the look of E61 machines, but this means warmup is faster and maintenance is easier... just a thought!


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Eiffel said:


> I would investigate other UK suppliers of Lelit products as well. Doing so you may discover that an Elizabeth is barely more expensive than a MaraX, and offers some advantages regarding temperature management of both boilers, pre-infusion, etc. while being fairly compact. It may not have the look of E61 machines, but this means warmup is faster and maintenance is easier... just a thought!


 The MaraX I found was £899 and the cheapest Elizabeth (and other other UK stockist that has stock) is from CoffeeUnderground at £1041. At £140 that's still nearly double the jump from my budget of £200-250 - it's within reach if I'm honest but unsure the benefits would make it a worthwhile purchase?

With E61 machines the maintenance is known to me now, and I understand they are fairly easily to fix if there is an issue. Is the same true about the Elizabeth?


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Interestingly I've just found an Elizabeth (and MaraX, similar price) here: https://30.coffee/lelit-elizabeth-pl92t-the-new-double-boiler-machine-of-the-vip-line

It works out at just over £900 after UK VAT (no import tax because of the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> Interestingly I've just found an Elizabeth (and MaraX, similar price) here: https://30.coffee/lelit-elizabeth-pl92t-the-new-double-boiler-machine-of-the-vip-line
> 
> It works out at just over £900 after UK VAT (no import tax because of the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement).


 If you are thinking of going towards that route, https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/home.html also offers the Elizabeth cheaper than the MaraX. 🙂 - And they are very good, with great feedback from them here and in other forums.

Just remember that... If you need to send your machine back for whichever reason, to be repaired or otherwise... It won't be a straight forward process anymore. 😞


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> If you are thinking of going towards that route, https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/home.html also offers the Elizabeth cheaper than the MaraX. 🙂 - And they are very good, with great feedback from them here and in other forums.


 €1100 = £1140 once UK VAT is added ☹


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> €1100 = £1140 once UK VAT is added ☹


 I *think* those prices are inclusive of the local VAT. You could always drop them an email. They are very responsive.


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Cheers, will contact them too. 30 Coffee came back already and answered all my questions, £900 seems a silly price for the machine.

Gosh, I'm going down a right rabble hole here!

I'm still erring on the side of a UK purchase with 2 year warranty, less unknown variables and potential issues.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> Gosh, I'm going down a right rabble hole here!


 Which grinder have you? 🙂



pandabear said:


> I'm still erring on the side of a UK purchase with 2 year warranty, less unknown variables and potential issues.


 I agree with you here. I'd do the same.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What about this in classifieds

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/item/57-lelit-elizabeth-v3/?do=embed

The other machine to consider is the Minima from Black cat coffee....


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

I've got a Mignon Silenzio with a single dosing mod (smaller hopper and bellows). Actually got the mod yesterday and very impressed with it so far.

@DavecUK A new Elizabeth can be had for £1040 so would go there rather than used. Nothing against used, usually buy that way in fact, just the price is so close.

Minima - again, price.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@pandabear You can always make an offer....it's still under warranty I believe.


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

Yeah, it's definitely an option.

I guess the question is if you could have a brand new MaraX with 2 year warranty or a used Elizabeth, with some scratches, with 1.5 year warranty for a similar price is there much between them?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

pandabear said:


> I've got a Mignon Silenzio with a single dosing mod (smaller hopper and bellows). Actually got the mod yesterday and very impressed with it so far.
> 
> @DavecUK A new Elizabeth can be had for £1040 so would go there rather than used. Nothing against used, usually buy that way in fact, just the price is so close.
> 
> Minima - again, price.


 Where can you get the Elizabeth for £1040?


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

@DavecUK https://www.espressounderground.co.uk/Lelit-PL92T-p/pl92t.htm

Read earlier in the topic and 30 Coffee in Poland, if you're okay with importing, have it for ~£900 after shipping and import duty/VAT.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pandabear said:


> @DavecUK https://www.espressounderground.co.uk/Lelit-PL92T-p/pl92t.htm
> 
> Read earlier in the topic and 30 Coffee in Poland, if you're okay with importing, have it for ~£900 after shipping and import duty/VAT.


 I never bought an espresso machine from them, but bought bits and bobs for my coffee machine. Peter (the owner) was very helpful, and got me sorted out pretty sharpish, with my items arriving first thing next day.

Happy to recommend on that basis, and I think @Doram bought his MaraX from theere too.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I never bought an espresso machine from them, but bought bits and bobs for my coffee machine. Peter (the owner) was very helpful, and got me sorted out pretty sharpish, with my items arriving first thing next day.
> 
> Happy to recommend on that basis, and I think @Doram bought his MaraX from theere too.


 Indeed I bought my Mara X from Espresso Underground and had no problem. I didn't have any issues with my machine, so I can't say how they would deal with problems, but after chatting with Peter I felt safe to buy from him - seems like a very nice and decent guy.

It's an old school type of business - he doesn't send confirmation emails, tracking numbers and this sort of thing, and sometimes he could miss an email, but where it matters - he delivered exactly what he promised. His website says the warranty is a 12 month back to base, but Peter confirmed (both on the phone and in writing) that actually it is for 2 years in the UK (12 months is for overseas sales) and that of course he would cover the costs of return if the machine is faulty and needed a warranty repair. He also said the warranty is transferable if sold to someone in the UK.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@pandabear i think unless they sell it ex vat you might have to pay vat and customs handling costs again, unless those issues have been resolved, or they sell to the UK ex vat


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## pandabear (Feb 12, 2014)

@DavecUK Yes it's sold ex-VAT, I emailed 30 Coffee and they confirmed that plus detailed a 1 year warranty (shipping required back to Poland, free return to UK from there).

Tempted but ultimately still feel the MaraX in the UK for the same price is the better option (I personally value an extra year of warranty at around 10% of a list price).

Comparing the MaraX and the Elizabeth is still a case of diminishing returns as far as the result in the cup is going to be (as someone who has only just recently learned that you should brew light/medium/dark roasts at different temperatures!), as could be moving from the Mara to either the X or the Elizabeth.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@pandabear I guess it's a tricky one, but finally the EU retailers seem to be perhaps getting their act together and devatting products to the UK, which to be honest they always should have! I personally would be a little nervous of shipping a single machine back to Poland....well anywhere to be honest but overseas is particularly tricky. When manufacturers ship me stuff it's always on pallets and the abuse of the machine is unbelievable..

They are both great machines...I guess it boils down to what you feel you want.....Elizabeth is a very smart machine though and has all those Smarts in the LCC...which is a little Oled Gicar device I really like...but probably appeals to a specific set of users.


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