# RR55-OD and RR45 Burr update



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi guys sorry this has taken so long, my supplier has finally found an alternative burr to the oem RR55 ones , as they are no longer available, the ones intended for the dosered versions would have fit but not offered the same performance but they assure me that although a different burr pattern these will give the same performance as they are the same as the Titanium version. The burrs for the doser versions have 12 larger bean breaking teeth, whereas this substitute for the OD versions has 16 of these bean breaking surfaces. The good news about these is that they are also replacing the RR45 burrs originally sent with these too which should offer an improvement in performance.

The burrs should be with me sometime next week and I will get them posted out to you all as soon as I am able, it may not be next week for them all as recent life events have meant that some bills are costing me double the amount budgeted for.

Once again sorry for the long long wait, but at least now we know we have a long term source for burrs, they have replaced the details for the oem version of the OD burrs in their catalogues worldwide now, and it was the search for an alternative and the testing which has taken the time, although it does seem like elephants mating in that it is done at high level with a great deal of grunting and groaning and takes almost 2 years to produce results.

Charlie


----------



## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

Thanks for a massive effort on your part to source these, particularly when you have had much more pressing things to deal with. Much appreciated, Charlie


----------



## robti (Mar 27, 2013)

Really appreciate all you have done with this Charlie, especially with everything that is happening in your life in the recent months, all the goodness will all come back round to you in the future.

Robert


----------



## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

Thanks Charlie. is the original amount paid still enough?


----------



## rmcgandara (Feb 12, 2013)

Thanks mate, appreciated.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Yes the original amount is still enough as they have waived any further delivery charge and the wrong burrs were sent back at their cost.


----------



## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

Hi Charlie,

Any news on these yet?


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I've got the burrs but I'm skint until around Friday so won't be able to post them out until then.


----------



## robti (Mar 27, 2013)

Charliej said:


> I've got the burrs but I'm skint until around Friday so won't be able to post them out until then.










Thanks for the honest reply, all I can say is I don't think anyone is not without a working machine at the moment so can only appreciate the trouble you have been through with these

robert


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Hey Charlie, I managed to get myself a nice Christmas present over the festive period. A Brasilia RR55OD for £180 second hand off eBay... the wife even offered to buy it me as a Christmas present







Only issue is that I think the burrs need replacing even after cleaning the burrs its grinding very slowly. Even a 12 second grind isn't filling even a single basket. The display says its done 40377 shots.

So my question is; did the burr buy actually happen and did they end up being the "correct" curved blade design ? If so is it still possible to order a set ?

Marcus


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi Marcus,

The original curved burrs are currently like rocking horse shit to get hold of . The only places I could find them were in Australia and the USA and the prices were rather high and then shipping on top and more than likely customs wanting there tonne of flesh too. My Italy based supplier had the burrs they supplied me tested and tell me that the performance is as good as the OEM burrs. It is impractical to order a single set of burrs due to their minimum order amount and flat rate £9.90 carriage fee. I will be putting together a group buy for some Gaggia Classic upgrade parts in the near future so could order you some then.

When you say you have cleaned it how far did you strip it down? there are also another couple of mods to make the grinds flow faster, also how much coffee are you keeping in it as it needs a weight of beans in the throat to function properly it will not work well at all if you are trying to single dose either. Whereabouts in Manchester are you? you would be welcome to come over and fetch the grinder to compare with mine.

Regarding getting everyone's burrs posted out, with the forum being down I haven't been able to get at your addresses as they are in my inbox, plus I've been seriously ill with a chest infection over Xmas and the New Year as well, hoepfully will get them all sent out in the next week.

Charlie.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi Charlie,

Sorry to hear you've been unwell over the Christmas period and hope you are on the mend now and that 2014 will be better year for you. Thanks for the offer of a personal consultation session I may well take you up on that one







. I'll PM you later.

Regarding the cleaning of the RR55OD I simply unscrewed the top burr set and brushed both burrs clean of old stale grinds etc. I did note that the burrs must have been replaced at some point since they are straight cut not curved









At the moment I've still got the hopper attached so I just dumped about (guess) 80g of beans in there.. just enough to fill the throat and have about an inch of beans visible in the hopper. I will be ordering a camera hood from eBay to replace the hopper later.

I just tried grinding coarser and (as expected) it did grind much faster but of course the shot then just poured out like a dirty brown waterfall. Someone has already removed the plastic gubbins in the funnel and the flap on mine is a green plastic tab not metal. I wonder if this is why I'm suffering from the grinds just sticking to the funnel sides rather than sliding straight out (static?). I think I'll try cutting up a Pepsi can and making my own extended flap.

I read on another thread that you said the minimum order is £60 + vat + postage. If worst came to worst I'd probably be prepared to order 3 or 4 sets to meet the minimum order value and hold them as stock. Given their rarity I'm sure they'd sell on eBay or even here on the forum in the future







Is your suppliers domestic postage rate any cheaper? I only ask as I will probably be going to Italy (Soriano nel Cimino) for a holiday soon and could bring them back in with me.

Regarding the Gaggia BB I might be interested in jumping ion on that one to as a I have my old Gaggia Classic stored away as a backup machine and the dispersion plate on that is aluminium and pretty grubby. Leaving the Gaggia 20mins to warm up before pulling a shot definitely improved my drinks so I'm sure a brass dispersion plate would make an improvement.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Once I'm back to a healthy state and have got all the burrs for everyone posted out I'll start a thread for the Gaggia dispersion block group buy and then I can stick some burrs for you on that order, I have a set of burrs CoffeeChap gave me a while ago, which whilst not the curved original part are Brasilia/Rossi OEM ones so I'll pass those on to you when you come over. It sounds very much like the plastic tab could be your problem here plus it may need its zero point resetting. It's also worth removing the burrs and the bottom burr carrier for a thorough cleaning of the grind chamber as quite a lot of coffee can end up encrusted underneath the bottom carrier. You need a 17mm socket to remove the bottom burr carrier and it's a reverse thread. I found myself removing the numbered grind adjustment collar to reset my zero point as well.

You may also want to try having a few more beans in the hopper, you must have the grinder somewhere without any over head cupboards as they are so damn tall with the hopper attached lol.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi Charlie,

When I put the top burr carrier back in I simply screwed it in until it touched the bottom burr set and then backed it off fractionally. I'm not entirely sure how you then get the "point 0" on the adjustment ring to align correctly as it will only screw back at set rotations i.e. 3 screws fix it in position so can only be aligned every 120 degrees.



Charliej said:


> ...I have a set of burrs CoffeeChap gave me a while ago, which whilst not the curved original part are Brasilia/Rossi OEM ones so I'll pass those on to you when you come over.


Wow.. very generous.. and very much appreciated. I'll pm you.



Charliej said:


> ...you must have the grinder somewhere without any over head cupboards as they are so damn tall with the hopper attached lol.


Yeah.. fortunately we have a small section of the worktop next to the cooker that has no over head cupboards

















View attachment 4885


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The burrs are all packed and ready to go, so will be posted either Friday or Saturday. Padder please see your pm I need your address.


----------



## robti (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks mate they came this morning all good, hope you are keeping better this week and once again thanks for taking the time to do this for us

robert


----------



## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Charlie, they arrived this morning

Much appreciated, thanks


----------



## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Nice setup Marcus


----------



## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

Just got home to find a packet of burrs awaiting me. Many thanks for all the effort you put into this, Charlie.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

glevum said:


> Nice setup Marcus


Thanks glevum. It must look pretty nice as we have a fairly limited amount of kitchen workspace but the wife hasn't really moaned about me taking over 1/3rd of it with my Coffee stuff.. and she's predominately a tea drinker!









At the moment I'm back on the MDF grinder as after stripping down the Brasilia to clean the burr chamber (with charliej) the nut that hold the bottom burrs onto the drive shaft has stripped its threads. I'm not 100% if its the nut that's stripped or worse the shaft.. I've a nasty suspicion its the shaft (gulp). To be fair to both me and charliej I'm sure it wasn't us that did it. I think the previous owner had misthreaded it previously as it we had a devil of a job getting it off having to gently jack up the lower burrs as we unscrewed it to get the nut to raise rather than spin.

I've ordered a new M10 1.25 fine pitch left-hand nut so hopefully later in the week I'll know either way.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Marcus, I've been wondering, as the nut holding the bottom carrier to the shaft didn't seem to be an original one, if a previous owner had actually somehow managed to force a right hand thread nut on and wrecked the threads in the process.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Marcus, I've been wondering, as the nut holding the bottom carrier to the shaft didn't seem to be an original one, if a previous owner had actually somehow managed to force a right hand thread nut on and wrecked the threads in the process.


I don't think it was a right hand nut as when we did actually get it off by jacking up the burrs to put positive pressure on the nuts threads, I'm sure I used a clockwise turn i.e. left hand, however, I do wonder if they used an M10 1.5 pitch bolt rather than a 1.25 ?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Call me a pessimist but I'm usually right... the L/H nut arrived and as predicted it won't fit. I removed the funnel off the front, removed the burrs and took a close up photo through the coffee chute and it confirmed my worst fears. The top threads are stripped/crushed horribly...









Looking for a silver lining, at least there are a few good threads at the base so assuming I can do something to get the nut down to them there should be enough to hold the burr carrier in place.

At the moment I'm investigating the option of having it rethreaded by using a split die wrapped around the base and then drawn up the thread to recut the thread. Failing that I could try using a thread file (possibly through the coffee chute or stripping the motor/shaft out completely and having it reduced to 8mm and threaded.

What a spherical pain...


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Wow that's nasty, I'm wondering if someone had tried to jam a rh thread nut on it given that the one on it wasn't the oem part anyway. From the photo it does look like there is enough material there to recut the thread, but currently that's worse than we even imagined on Saturday.


----------



## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

Unless you've flipped it somehow, that picture shows a standard right hand thread by the way.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Glenn the whole point here is that it should be a left hand thread M10 1.25 pitch.


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Charlie I agree they are usually L/H threads but as Glenn said the undamaged part is showing standard R/H thread. Below the taper appears to be another threaded section,Is that some sort of adaptor for the motor ? Has Dave (C/C ) any info ?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Glenn the whole point here is that it should be a left hand thread M10 1.25 pitch.


Just checked again and I think Glennv is correct... it certainly looks like a R/H thread ! Although from what I can measure it is a 1.25 pitch thread. I have to say that I now think "we" did knacker it Charlie ! It seems strange as according to your online catalogues it should be a left hand thread ?

..and to make matters worse I've just noticed that all that thread that's left at the bottom is actually below the level of the bottom burr carrier when its institute.

As it stands I think I'm going to have strip the motor shaft out and have it milled down to 8mm and rethreaded.

Feeling quite depressed


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

It's very very odd because mine is definitely a left hand thread. the bizarre thing is we tried both ways and the only way it would unscrew was left hand. If I remember correctly when fully tightened that remaining thread actually is above the burr carrier.


----------



## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

It's worth having a go with a thread file to see if you can get a nut on there. It just needs to be nipped up to lock the burr carrier onto that conical seat, I wouldn't imagine it requires massive force - there might be just enough left of those damaged threads. The most important thing is to ensure that the conical seat and the interior mating surface on the lower burr carrier are absolutely clean - no dust.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> Charlie I agree they are usually L/H threads but as Glenn said the undamaged part is showing standard R/H thread. Below the taper appears to be another threaded section,Is that some sort of adaptor for the motor ? Has Dave (C/C ) any info ?


Well spotted El carajillo, I hadn't noticed before, I was too aghast at the mangled thread. There does indeed look to be two threads showing at the bottom of the taper...although they could just be concentric grooves its difficult to be sure. I think I'm going to take the bottom off the grinder and try removing the whole motor to get a better look.

Charlie... did you say you had difficulty getting it back together when you removed that circlip (which I assume needs to be removed for the motor to come out) ?


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Marcus obtain a standard nut/correct thread and run a saw cut through it,open the split with a S/driver or chisel until you can get it down onto the lower threads.Squeeze back together and fit a tight socket over and unscrew the nut. May need several applications to dress the thread but worth a try. If you try to open a die it will snap also you have nothing to grip.

Marcus the" threads" below may just be where they withdraw the cutting tool from the taper, have a close look any way.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

GlennV said:


> It's worth having a go with a thread file to see if you can get a nut on there. It just needs to be nipped up to lock the burr carrier onto that conical seat, I wouldn't imagine it requires massive force - there might be just enough left of those damaged threads. The most important thing is to ensure that the conical seat and the interior mating surface on the lower burr carrier are absolutely clean - no dust.


I thought about using a thread file but they are fairly expensive (£25-35) and I wasn't sure if they would actually recover such a badly crushed thread. They seem to be used just to clean up rusted or slightly flattened threads.



El carajillo said:


> Marcus obtain a standard nut/correct thread and run a saw cut through it open the split with a S/driver or chisel until you can get it down onto the lower threads. Squeeze back together and fit a tight socket over and unscrew the nut. May need several applications to dress the thread but worth a try. If you try to open a die it will snap also you have nothing to grip.
> 
> Marcus the" threads" below may just be where they withdraw the cutting tool from the taper, have a close look any way.


I may give this a try. I was trying to find a rethreading die (i.e. one that is hexagonal in shape and split in two) but they all seem to be at least 11mm deep which is too deep to fit around the lower thread only. Your idea of just using a nut might work better as a half nut is only about 4mm thick.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

*Success !*

Following *El carajillo* advice I ordered some stainless steel M10 1.25 pitch RIGHT HAND half nuts (from fleabay) , cut through one side and opened it up (with brute force and a screwdriver) and managed to get it down onto the bottom thread. I then used a G Clamp to squeeze the nut closed crimping it onto the thread, and then wound it back up. After a few up, down, G clamp sessions, it didn't look any different to the naked eye but it seems to have done enough that if I'm VERY careful I can get a nut to screw onto it ! I've now successfully got the lower burrs back in the grinder and its grinding coffee again









I took some pictures as I went along...







View attachment 5229


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

I've got the grinder back together and put some coffee beans through it and it seems to be working or at least its grinding the coffee beans, but I'm suffering terribly from static in the coffee grinds. So much so that the coffee just sticks to walls on the in inside of the funnel and I have to continually thwack it to get any coffee out. I think this is mainly down to the beans (Rave's Italian Job), but I'll try some other beans to be sure. I've tried adding a few drops of water to the beans before grinding and it did help for the first few seconds but then the grinds started to stick again.

I've noticed that when I zero the burrs i.e. screw down the top set until the touch and move the bottom set and then wind back a quarter turn, if I then turn the bottom set with via the nut on the centre spindle the burs seem scrape each other but only at one point in each revolution. I'm assuming this means the burrs aren't in parallel to each other ?


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Markus sounds as if there is a speck of something under one of the burrs. (was taper and burr carrier clean and free of any oil/grease).Remove burrs and clean carriers,re fit burrs tightening screws evenly and uniformly.

To re set burrs (motor off) wind down until they touch and you can just about turn them by hand/socket.

Wind back 17 notches and then forward 4 notches,this should be the position when delivered as new. (good starting point)


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

El carajillo said:


> Markus sounds as if there is a speck of something under one of the burrs. (was taper and burr carrier clean and free of any oil/grease).Remove burrs and clean carriers,re fit burrs tightening screws evenly and uniformly.
> 
> To re set burrs (motor off) wind down until they touch and you can just about turn them by hand/socket.
> 
> Wind back 17 notches and then forward 4 notches,this should be the position when delivered as new. (good starting point)


The bottom burr carrier was given a good clean while we had it out at my place and the burs replaced while it was out so it was easier to get the screws torqued down equally, the same way I do on my own RR55


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> Markus sounds as if there is a speck of something under one of the burrs. (was taper and burr carrier clean and free of any oil/grease).Remove burrs and clean carriers,re fit burrs tightening screws evenly and uniformly.
> 
> To re set burrs (motor off) wind down until they touch and you can just about turn them by hand/socket.
> 
> Wind back 17 notches and then forward 4 notches,this should be the position when delivered as new. (good starting point)


Thanks El carajillo ... why back 17 and then forward 4, why not just back 13 ?



Charliej said:


> The bottom burr carrier was given a good clean while we had it out at my place and the burs replaced while it was out so it was easier to get the screws torqued down equally, the same way I do on my own RR55


... well I guess it must be all down to me mounting them on the taper then







I did wipe them down and clean them before fitting though, so I;m reasonably sure there isn't any coffee or dust under there. I will try taking it apart again this weekend and refitting the burr carriers.

At the moment I'm more interested in reducing the static issue. As you know Charlie, my grinder came with a home made plastic flap covering the coffee chute and we thought that this may not be "earthing" things correctly. In fact you very kindly covered the flap in some aluminium stick on tape while I was over at your place. At the same time applying the mod to extend the flap on the right. Although this doesn't appear to have cured the problem I couldn't resist making a "proper" aluminium flap out of an old tin of beer while I had the grinder apart. The aluminium tin cut really easily with normal scissors and despite what you may think the edges are not sharp or likely to cut and don't require any filing. I'll post some pictures later.

I've ordered a cheap USB powered ionizer from eBay (£3.38) that I'm going to try mounting inside the doser funnel in an attempt to remove the static from the coffee grinds as they are produced. I'm not entirely sure this will work but it's worth a punt at that price.

BTW, did you ever find the other foot of my grinder? I checked the car and its not in there so it must be either at yours or lost in the street as I carried it to your house. Did you say LF sold spares ?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Here are some pictures of how I made the replacement aluminium flap to cover the exit chute.

View attachment 5250


Cut the top and bottom off an old "beer can" with some normal scissors and scrubbed it clean with a scouring pad. Make sure you scrub both sides as there will probably be a plastic coating on the inside surface of the tin.

View attachment 5251


Traced around the old flap I had as a template with the extended right hand side mod.

View attachment 5252


Cut out the new flap and punched two screw hole in with a small screwdriver.

View attachment 5253


Screwed the new flap to the grinder with the funnel removed (to allow more access) and creased it to bring it forward to allow coffee to exit freely.









Replaced funnel and refitted the new flap. Job done.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I found 1 foot but not the other, LF don#t seem to have them in the catalogue at the moment, may be worth dropping Coffeechap a note to see if he has a spare one.


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Charliej said:


> I found 1 foot but not the other, LF don#t seem to have them in the catalogue at the moment, may be worth dropping Coffeechap a note to see if he has a spare one.


Ohh well thanks for looking anyway... keep that one safe for me please Charlie , I'll drop Coffeechap a pm


----------



## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Just a quick question and maybe a real daft one at that.

Is there a difference in the burrs i.e a top one and a bottom one? If so how do you tell the difference?


----------



## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Tbe only daft question is the one you dont ask... so to answer your question , No both burrs are the same so either one can go on the top or the bottom.


----------



## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Cheers, thanks for clarifying


----------

