# ECM Synchronika, Profitec 700 or Profitec 800 Lever Machine...Your thoughts please!



## pedg (Apr 11, 2017)

Good Evening All

This is my very first post on this site, so I will keep it brief. At present I have a Sage Duo Temp pro, which I have very quickly grown out of, and am looking to upgrade in the near future to one of the machines mentioned in the title.

My first choice is the ECM Synchronika, closely followed by the Profitec 700. I know they are exactly the same internally but need to see both in person to decide either way.

I am also rather keen on the Profitec 800 sprung lever machine. It looks good, something different, and a lot of people say they make absolutely stunning espresso (which I am struggling to make on the Sage. I can do it, but its not easy!). I've also heard that they are very unforgiving of mistakes? But am certainly very keen on the lever, and really love the idea of manual control. Annoys me though that a machine at this price has a vibration pump, if someone knows of a specific reason for this I'm all ears.

I was also looking at the Quick Mill Verona, but there are lots of reports of problems on here with leaky boilers and the like, and the inside of the machine is extremely messy (compared to the ECM/Profitec) which is putting me off the QM.

I grind with a Mazzer Mini E (64mm Flat Burrs from the Super Jolly), and will be using a bottomless portafilter and VST 18g or 22g basket in the new machine. I also use freshly roasted, high quality coffee and bottled water (as the water where I live is horrible).

Any pointers/opinions on these machines would be very much appreciated, many thanks in advance.

GP


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ecm synchronika

I have a mechanika and I'd only upgrade for one of these.

Beautifully made machines, a real delightful ownership proposition.

Have you seen the gushing reviews of it?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Are you sure the 700 and synchro and exactly the same inside? I heard lots of shared internals but wasn't aware they are same machine with different cabinets/controls


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## Essewissa (Jan 27, 2017)

Izzo Allex Duetto IV or ECM Synchronika.


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

I have an ECM Synchronika. It wasnt planned, one became available on here and Id liked what Id seen looking at utube etc. I have no regrets. Its a superb piece of kit. It was sixteen months old when I picked it up and still looks brand new.

There was small issue where the nut holding the steam valve to the case had to be tightened which meant taking the external cover off. What I saw inside bought a smile to my face, absolutely spotless and solid. Its belt and braces.

There are Whole Latte Love videos that compare the Synchronica with the 700 (I think), showing the inside and everything. They seem to have a preference for ECM but that may be commission etc, who knows.

I have no previous experience with other prosumer machines so dont know how the ECM compares to others but I think the ECM is a good choice.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

With this sort of post you'll always get responses favouring the machine that a person has or the machine a person wants.

If youre shelling out this sort of money, test the machines in the flesh if possible and see which you prefer - especially when your thoughts are not made up between lever or pump machine.


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

working dog said:


> With this sort of post you'll always get responses favouring the machine that a person has or the machine a person wants.
> 
> If youre shelling out this sort of money, test the machines in the flesh if possible and see which you prefer - especially when your thoughts are not made up between lever or pump machine.


Thats why I made the point of saying I have no experience with other prosumer m/c's. But am pleased with what I have . Before I bought my machine I went to BB to have a good look round.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hello pedg, and welcome









It really helps to see the machines in the flesh, everything becomes much easier then. Bella Barista is fairly central, Northampton, and they are a great retailer and fantastic at helping people choose what is right for them! If you are not near enough maybe there is somewhere else you could see them, I even had offers on here from forum members inviting me round when I couldn't decide on my grinder upgrade!


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## pedg (Apr 11, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Are you sure the 700 and synchro and exactly the same inside? I heard lots of shared internals but wasn't aware they are same machine with different cabinets/controls


Yes, definitely 100% the same internals with different case and controls as you say, and a £350 price difference.

working dog It was meant to be a lever versus pump question, as the two pump machines quoted work almost the same. I would be interested to hear from someone who's used a lever and a pump, and which they prefer and why.

It would be interesting to hear from DaveCUK.

Thanks everyone...keep the responses coming.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Pro 800 has not really caught on much over here. Why? Because the Londinium one group is better at a similar price point. If I am right, the 800 is a dipper which means the group draws water straight from the boiler meaning you have to flush whereas the Londinium have a thermosyphon which continually circulates water from the boiler through the group.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

pedg said:


> I would be interested to hear from someone who's used a lever and a pump, and which they prefer and why.


Ive had both and, whilst my pump machine wasn't in the same financial league (Fracino Cherub) as my L1, I prefer the L1. I like the looks and the operation of the lever but, more importantly, I like what it delivers in the cup. There are many who will prefer a pump machine and it is very much what you prefer, hence my previous comments.

Best bet is a full wallet, an open mind and a trip to Bella Barista.

Good luck with the quest for your new machine


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## pedg (Apr 11, 2017)

working dog said:


> Ive had both and, whilst my pump machine wasn't in the same financial league (Fracino Cherub) as my L1, I prefer the L1. I like the looks and the operation of the lever but, more importantly, I like what it delivers in the cup. There are many who will prefer a pump machine and it is very much what you prefer, hence my previous comments.
> 
> Best bet is a full wallet, an open mind and a trip to Bella Barista.
> 
> Good luck with the quest for your new machine


Cheers @working dog. I hadn't really looked at the Londinium, but I just had a look at the LR and L1. Is the L1 plumbed only? That would be no good for me as my mains water is drinkable and perfectly safe but horrible, and for drinks (Tea and Coffee) I use Volvic bottled water and will be doing with my next machine as long as I live where I am living now.

The L1 is a bit (well, quite a lot) out of my price range at £3100, whereas the LR comes in at £2280, which is the same price as the Pro800, and although a little over budget, I would stretch to it if it was 'the one' (excuse the pun!). The differences I can see are that the L1 is plumbed with a 7l boiler and the LR is tank fed with a 2.3L boiler. Will 2.3L be enough for home use, and would you recommend the LR over the Pro800?

Do you think the LR (or A-N other lever operated machine) generally delivers a better balanced, more pleasing cup than the equivalently priced pump machine? Im into Ristrettos as well, if that makes any difference. I would say not?

Cheers

GP


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

pedg,

Londinium have recently done some model renaming which is perhaps a little confusing.

The original L-1 was the predecessor of the current L-R. The revamped design now features a rotary pump as opposed to the original vibe pump. Also a secondary pressure switch allows you to vary the pre-infusion pressure which previously was at boiler pressure on the L-1. ( Do have to remove the top to access that p-stat so not an easy external adjustment) The L-1 used to be plumbable with a retro kit. Not impossible to plumb the L-R but it is really designed just to be tank fed.

The old single group commercial the L1-P is now named the L1 to bring out into line with the L2 and L3, the commercial 2 and 3 groups. Hence the confusion. Working dog is referring to his pre 2017 L1 !!!

Down the line I have been fortunate to have owned a Sylvia, Rocket Giotto, QM Verona, 2006 L1 and now the new L-R.

All can produce good coffee but I believe there is a progression of ultimate quality, consistency, ease of use etc. I consider each to have been a worthwhile upgrade over the previous.

I have stated elsewhere .... There is a certain 'je ne sais quoi' about the Londinium. (maybe with other levers also?) It looks elegant, it's quiet and easy to use, easy to maintain, no backflushshing etc as there is with E61 group, and makes great coffee. And you get to pull that lever! Bags of steam and I much prefer the toggle lever taps over the rotary taps that feature on most machines.

If I had to give up the L-R I would have the old L1 back in a heartbeat.

Not sure where you are based but Foundry Coffee Roasters - Sheffield are UK agents, where you can get to see one in the flesh.


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