# Beware! Astonish Descaler



## davewuff (Oct 26, 2012)

Hi, I had a quick search of the forum but got no hits, so I thought it best to warn members.

I bought some Astonish Descaler recently, it says it is suitable for espresso machines. But when I used it as directed for my Gaggia Baby it started to MELT the white plastic filter in the water tank!! You could see 'strings' of white plastic rising from the filter in the tank! Horrified I immediately removed and rinsed and flushed through and thankfully it seems to have done no lasting damage but if I had not seen it as quickly as I did who knows what it might have done to the internals!

Beware of ASTONISH descaler, do not use it!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Sounds horrific.

Just use Citric acid , simples


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Where possible use the manufacturers recommended product. Many household descalers will use Tartaric acid which can damage some boilers


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## davewuff (Oct 26, 2012)

You're right of course. Just didn't want anyone else to make the same mistake.

Hmm...to be honest I don't even know why I bother descaling. I live in west yorkshire and am blessed with the softest water in the world. I think I do it 'cos it's been drummed into me. I recently threw out a ten yr old kettle which had absolutely NO SCALE in it at all. It was still shiny chrome inside.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

garydyke1 said:


> Sounds horrific.
> 
> Just use Citric acid , simples


I'm not sure you can in aluminium boilers?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Gaggia do tell you only to use one certain type in their blurb. I think it is Citric but dont quote me!


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

dfk41 said:


> Gaggia do tell you only to use one certain type in their blurb. I think it is Citric but dont quote me!


I really don't think you just put citric acid in their machines, at least the ones with alu boilers.


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

I use puly in my classic. I believe it's what they recommend.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I used puly in mine... Thought I'd done some harm when the water came out cloudy for ages.. But turned out just to be micro bubbles from the new shower head. They cleared up. Machine has been perfect since.

Happydonkey mentions that puly is ok, as long as you don't let it sit in the boiler, so unlike normal when you'd fill he boiler and leave it to work for 20 mms or so, just pull the puly solution straight through with no sitting. It works well enough.


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

Yes agreed I don't let it sit around at all. A few mins max. I believe Gaggia also say this if you go looking.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ingredients: citric acid, malic acid & sodium citrate


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

Is that the ingredients for the puly? I'm in the US for the mo so can't check easily.

I'm surprised as Gaggia specifically mention not to use citric so I would think if its in the puly it must just be a-covering from Gaggia or to do with concentrations or similar. My recollection is that citric causes corrosion of aluminum and you end up with a whitish sticky substance. Any members open up an old boiler and take pics?


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

origmarm said:


> Is that the ingredients for the puly? I'm in the US for the mo so can't check easily.
> 
> I'm surprised as Gaggia specifically mention not to use citric so I would think if its in the puly it must just be a-covering from Gaggia or to do with concentrations or similar. My recollection is that citric causes corrosion of aluminum and you end up with a whitish sticky substance. Any members open up an old boiler and take pics?


It's not that it contains citric acid, it is that it *only* contains citric acid without a buffer. There are some other posts I think a while ago about it.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Puly is sulphamic acid....as used for commercial brewers (Bravilor, Technivorm, etc)

I've found it quite safe to use on all metals ie steel, copper, brass. With aluminum just don't leave the solution to soak - run it through then flush with lots of water.

PS Sulphamic acid is NOT sulphuric acid !


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## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

So to clarify, are you folks using Puly Caff to descale or the 'Baby' sachets?

I've been maintaining my Classic with citric acid for some time but like to give it more of a deeper clean every now and again.


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

I use this one: http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0588-puly-baby.html. The baby


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## spune (Oct 3, 2011)

Thanks a lot.

Have you ever used the Puly Grinder cleaner?


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

Yes used it in the past. To be honest I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes for the volumes I grind but I do it every now and again as the folks in the know say I should.


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## davewuff (Oct 26, 2012)

Thankyou for all your feedback, there's obviously still a lot of confusion over what to use, but before I close, with water as soft as it is here in West Yorkshire, do I really *need* to descale at all????

Common sense says I'm just doing it because everyone does. As I say, a ten yr old kettle had NO DEPOSITS at all and was never descaled in it's life. I still backflush with puly anyway, shouldn't that be enough?


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Well being in edinburgh, my need to descale is pretty slight. When I had the beans to cup machine which used to keep track of such things, it only asked once in a whole year to be descaled


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

I would guess that's a timed thing, maybe dependant on use? As opposed to it actually knowing it needs descaled.

If you don't have scale in the water then I would put a sachet through twice a year to keep things clean and reduce any build up of crud. As long as you backflush regularly then you should be ok!

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

If you have no scale buildup in the kettle (assuming you use it regularly) you are not going to have any in the coffee machine either. By the way I severely corroded a Gaggia alu boiler with Puly baby over a period of just over a year. I was letting it sit in the boiler for a good 10 minutes with the boiler on!!! Lesson learned.


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