# What milk do you use?



## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi all, just wanted to say hi and to ask what milk you are using if at all.

I've been getting best results from Cravendale Semi or Full fat, but have just discovered Tesco Pure range which seem really good if not better than the Cravendale.

What say you?


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

I can notice a difference between poorer quality milk and higher quality/ organic stuff. It's quite noticeable once steamed.


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## profspudhed (Mar 18, 2011)

full fat, and for some reason i find the country life stuff sold at paper shops seems to steam better than supermarket milks


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

I've never really been able to pin down why it is some milks steam better than others. I know the fat content makes little difference as it's the protein levels that have the major impact but aside from that it's all a bit grey to me. thanks for your input people.


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## profspudhed (Mar 18, 2011)

just to add the country life stuff sold at corner shops around here is usually £1.10 for 4pts, at tesco 4pts is about £1.50 and doesnt steam as well or last as long (not that long life is a concern to me, i get through at least 4pts of milk a day, but im a veggie so i need it) after that its all a bit odd to me too, it also amazes me (in a good way) that a corner shop is selling something cheaper than a supermarket for a change


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes, I can also purchase milk cheaper at my local shop but they don't sell any triple filtered milks. This i guess is their way of competing with the big guns.

I can also get through 4 pints a day no problems at all and I'm not a vegetarian. I just drink a shed load of coffee. Ha ha


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## Clement VIII (May 13, 2011)

I don't use any milk personally.

My mother however is on a diet and likes coffee made with milk, I find the Cravendale skimmed works surprisingly well (visually). Not sure how it tastes though.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I'll use skimmed (0.1%) for the missus and whole (4%) for me. I've only started drinking whole again lately and found that it just tastes like milk used to when I was a kid... i.e. great! Skimmed is just pish.

But as far as steaming goes, I can't say I notice any difference between how they all steam. As long as I get the stretching done quickly then move onto churning the milk back over itself in the jug, I seem to get decent results. BTW, with the Gaggia Classic I've stopped trying to keep it spinning laterally (i.e. clockwise or anti-clockwise) as there's just not enough steam pressure. For me it works better to get the milk moving in a kind of vertical circle, where the steam pushed the milk downwards at one side of the jug and it rises up at the other side then kind of folds back over onto where it started. Microfoam quality and latte art has improved a lot since I started doing this. I'll see if I can get a wee video of it uploaded.


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## Zouche (Jan 16, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> BTW, with the Gaggia Classic I've stopped trying to keep it spinning laterally (i.e. clockwise or anti-clockwise) as there's just not enough steam pressure. For me it works better to get the milk moving in a kind of vertical circle, where the steam pushed the milk downwards at one side of the jug and it rises up at the other side then kind of folds back over onto where it started. Microfoam quality and latte art has improved a lot since I started doing this. I'll see if I can get a wee video of it uploaded.


That would be great if you could - I too am having difficulty getting a lateral spin on the milk, instead it is just churning around in all directions. Haven't managed to get the perfect microfoam yet... still trying. I use Tesco triple-filtered semi-skimmed by the way. I used to use full fat, but then someone in a shop advised me that it wasn't the best milk for achieving microfoam??


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Here it is. Typical, the one time I'm recording it I do a crap bit of art.


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

Excellent work Mike thanks for that. good to put a face to the name also.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

No worries. I was in a complete rush to get out of the house so Jan was being a bit a pain, hence the bollixed pour and slightly surly attitude!! But the milk was lovely and shiny in the jug, and well integrated, and that was skimmed milk. Speed of pour and also distance from the cup make such a huge difference to whether my latte art works or not.


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## Zouche (Jan 16, 2011)

The video was an interesting watch Mike, it has shown me a couple of things - firstly that i HAVE to get a steam-wand mod for my Classic, using it as-is without the panerello part is not nearly as effective, and secondly that your machine (and a couple of others that I have seen on YouTube) seem to have greater pressure than mine. They also make a slightly different noise when in use - kind of a pulsing-type noise which mine doesn't seem to do... A full strip and clean of mine required perhaps?


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

The steam wand mod is a good idea, the stock wand is limiting not only because it's just not long enough but because the panerello IMO is useless.

In terms of sound, I always aim for as quiet as possible. In other words if it's screaming at you it's probably too deep in the milk, aim to have the tip of the wand just under the surface. you will get a slight ripping sound as the wand draws air and creates bubbles. As the foam increases you can begin to lower the wand into the milk but keep that whirlpool effect going.

Once you've hit the sweet spot a few times you'll know what I'm talking about. The noise will show you the way.


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## Zouche (Jan 16, 2011)

Yep, gonna have to get that steam wand changed. The panarello is indeed useless, i get a much better (although still not great) result from just using the little black tip part of the assembly on its own. I think the problem is a single hole, pointing straight downwards - not ideal!

The noise I meant was from the pump/boiler of the actual machine... It just sounds different to others I have seen on the internet. I have never actually seen another Gaggia Classic working 'in the flesh' as it were, and bought mine (my first machine) second-hand, so it's hard to know if it is working ok or not!


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

The pump shouldn't be on when your steaming.


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## Zouche (Jan 16, 2011)

Yes, I was thinking more about when I'm pulling through a shot. Just had the shower plate off and it was caked in crud, warming up the machine now to give it a trial run along with my new milk jug... Every little step brings me closer to coffee nirvana!!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Probably my fault, I think I said pump on the video when i was referring to having the steam switch on.

Just a few thoughts:

1. When I got mine it had the old wand on. Despite some reviews saying you can get good steam with it, I found it poor.

2. After changing to the rancilio wand I didn't get immediate fantastic results. The main benefit to me was just that it was longer so it could reach down into the jug better.

3. I soon realised that two things were preventing me getting good steamed milk. The machine's age (5 years old and 2nd hand), and my technique. So...

4. As the wand had a very minor drip, I figured I must be losing some steam pressure. I replaced the steam valve (£30). WOW. Big increase in pressure and the milk was now actually moving around in the jug. Immediate improvement.

5. With other limitations removed I started trying steaming with different sized jugs filled to different levels with different milks and with the jug at different places/angles in the jug.

As for the sound, its funny. The machine went quieter after changing the steam valve, but now it's a little rattly again whilst the brew button is on. My thoughts are that noises are probably made worse by old gaskets that prevent good connections between parts. So in due course I'll probably replace the boiler (and new boiler gasket) and pump (probably a gasket there somewhere too).

Main thing is, each machine is different so I think you need to identify your machines strengths and weaknesses and work with them.

Really glad the vid helped!! (Still gutted about the rosetta blob







)


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## Zouche (Jan 16, 2011)

Well, after that quick road test things were definitely improved. I think the cleaning of the screen has reduced bitterness, and the new jug (differently shaped, better spout shape) made quite a difference to the quality of the milk. Much better microfoam and the milk constantly churned around in the jug. I think basically that the next step is a stripdown, de-scale and really good clean. Then its the new wand. I 'think' then that I might be done (for now!). I have no idea of the machines age, but a full service is no doubt required. I was encouraged by the fact that the screen and the plate underneath came off very easily, so fingers crossed for when I finally get around to disassembly!

The vid really did help. Maybe I should get around to doing a vid of my efforts so that I can get a critique of my method/results.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

I would echo that I use both Cravendale and Tesco Pure milk.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Sorry it's not strictly on topic, but on the subject of cleaning... a few weeks ago I filled a bowl with water and puly caff cleaner, and left these things to soak for about 18 hours, then scrubbed them with a green scourer:

- Shower screen

- Shower plate

- Basket (detached from portafilter)

- Portafilter spring (detached from portafilter)

- Portafilter (keeping the handle out of the water)

- Spare basket that I use for measuring beans

- Scoop

- Drip tray grill

Basically anything metal and detachable, especially if it touches the beans or espresso at any point. I was really very surprised how clean everything looked afterwards, especially since I didn't think they looked dirty before hand. Especially the portafilter, underneath the basket, where oils collect and go rancid quickly. The colour of the metal lifted several shades!

I know some people do this cleaning ritually every week. Sounds like a good idea if you have the discipline. I'm aiming for about every month at the moment.


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

I descale my machine every two weeks and it's shocking how much scale accumulates in such a short time, and I'm not even in a particularly hard water area. I guess the thing is you only need a very small amount of lime scale to block valves and steam wands. I have a Gaggia Coffee Delux so no 3 way solenoid, instead it has a small valve in the group head and this can get blocked very easily. I clean my PF every day. I fully dismantle it and remove the oils with a green scourer and a little soapy water, rinse and dry.

My double basket however has many blocked holes and I've been unable to unblock them other than using a pin which I've read you're not supposed to do. I think I'm just going to order a new one.


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## dancing james (Nov 29, 2015)

Thought I'd bump this thread as it's something I have been thinking about.

We tend to use filtered milk (cravendale or tesco) and either full fat or semi skimmed at home. It seems more reliable and better able to produce microfoam than normal milk.

I used to work on the retail side at Rapha when it first opened, and we had a Romanian barista as a consultant for the first 6 months in the cafe called Paul Bonner. He spent ages finding a farmer who could supply fresh pasteurised organic milk which was amazing, though it was not available in shops and I can't remember its name.

What are others using for milk?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I use Yeo - the full fat stuff - i love it's sweet creamyness ....I wish i could get the milk that Atkinson's ( local cafe ) use though - the co op producers were at Cup North the milk was delish


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## FullBloomCoffee (Mar 19, 2015)

I use milk from my local dairy, I tried around 9 different types from supermarkets and local shops before settling on this stuff, its a bit more expensive, but well worth it.


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## MarkT (Nov 21, 2015)

I'm currently using cravendale milk as its on offer 2 for £3. It's full fat. Used the tesco full fat before didn't seem to get creamy as cravendale. It could be psychological. Lol


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Cravendale is easy to work with but I find the 'superclean' taste distracting (though not unpleasant ). I generally use Tesco whole milk, but only cos I live next door to a Tesco, not cos it's the greatest. Kinda went off the filtered stuff for taste reasons.


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## MarkT (Nov 21, 2015)

I'll try the tesco milk again after Christmas if Santa has brought me a Gaggia classic. Ot

not new year it will have to be to get one. Lol


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## blightyed (Sep 13, 2015)

I've been using Watson's and Sainsbury's, but looking for something else.. Just sampled some Muller Wiseman. So far of the three, Sainsbury's own is the best.. It seems to have a nicer creaminess and body to it.

Have been looking for a supplier for a while and it's a tough task. Anyone got any tips out there??


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## FullBloomCoffee (Mar 19, 2015)

Yeo Valley is good stuff.

I also hear good things about Ivy House Farm which Monmouth swear by.

would be interested to see what this stuff is like though...

http://www.rachelsorganic.co.uk/range/milk-cream-and-butter/whole-milk


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I just get Tescos own full fat. We usually get a couple of semi 6 pintas and a 2 pint full fat for me when we go shopping. It goes creamy enough for me (not tried anything else tbh).


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

My absolute favourite is Grahams Smooth Gold. It's full fat milk from a Jersey (breed not location) herd. It is homogenised which breaks up all those lovely globules of rich golden fat throughout the milk. It somehow adds a vanilla-like taste to a milky drink. I gave one unprompted to Mrs R and she asked me if I had put vanilla syrup in. Besmirching my character was uncalled for but does prove it wasn't just me. It's available in Morrisons and Sainsburys in the NW. Actually 25p cheaper at Sainsbury's. £1 a litre. Not sure about national availability.

Onto other milks. All filtered longer life refrigerated milks come from Arla, regardless of branding. Organic milks. Check the jugs and you will see that most are supplied by Yeo. They have a series of ridges on the handles as it bends plus they are metric sized for the larger jugs.

I'm looking to try a local raw milk. It's a faff to buy as the law limits raw milk sales to direct sales from the farmer. I've had raw milk at my friend's dairy farm in Canada. It's just a totally different thing to pssteurised. Not sure how it will steam as it will be unhomogenised. My attempts with gold top were underwhelming.


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

I pour a smallish bit of unsweetened coconut milk in my espresso to cool it off. {tastes good cooled by itself}

Do not like it foamed or steamed. Just cold_


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Absolute favourite milk ever is from Northiam Dairy, very pricey (even at a trade price) though but well worth the money.

Currently use Yeo Valley and Freshways as they taste amazing with the current iteration of Market Blend and are very very similar to work with. Plus, I can get both from our supplier.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

ridland said:


> I'm looking to try a local raw milk. It's a faff to buy as the law limits raw milk sales to direct sales from the farmer. I've had raw milk at my friend's dairy farm in Canada. It's just a totally different thing to pssteurised. Not sure how it will steam as it will be unhomogenised. My attempts with gold top were underwhelming.


Non homogenised milks are fine to steam. Northiam is non-homogenised and a lot of the most respected specialty shops use that. I've used it on and off for quite a while too.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Scotford said:


> Non homogenised milks are fine to steam. Northiam is non-homogenised and a lot of the most respected specialty shops use that. I've used it on and off for quite a while too.


We only have non homogenised whole milk and I don't have any issues with steaming


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

We use Lactose Free semi skimmed due to my wives lactose intolerance. I have say I can't tell it from normal


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## Tewdric (Apr 20, 2014)

Whatever is in the fridge. A bad workman and all that!

having said that.... Waitrose Welsh full fat and, in particular, Yeo Valley Organic full fat are particularly good. Like Scotford said in one sense!


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

ARLA Biologic Organic whole milk €1,15 1 litre

It's for me and a lot of Dutch barista the absolute top, nice micro foamy milk and easy to pour, also very usable in figure pouring and the best thing is that the milksucres easely come to bloom and have great taste, I drink most of the time Cortado's and this bit of milk does just the trick to soften the taste.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Oh, I also found that Yeo took a while to get used to with big powerful steam machines. Especially so at Grind where I had one machine at almost 2 bar (to allow barista #2 to help #1 catch up at a rapid pace)


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## davidlam (Dec 27, 2015)

I;ve been using Cravendale full fat and its been producing lovely rich and very sweet milk with good microfoam.


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## FullBloomCoffee (Mar 19, 2015)

Im very interested to try this stuff, seems to be targeted specifically at the speciality coffee market.

will be seeing if i can order some shortly, so will report back

https://theestatedairy.com


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I wonder if this is the Noble Espresso gangs project with that Dutch (?) Barista that I keep hearing about.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

BeanAbout said:


> Im very interested to try this stuff, seems to be targeted specifically at the speciality coffee market.
> 
> will be seeing if i can order some shortly, so will report back
> 
> https://theestatedairy.com


 @foundrycoffeeroasters.com is this the one I saw you mention on Twitter?


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

risky said:


> @foundrycoffeeroasters.com is this the one I saw you mention on Twitter?


No, but they look really interesting. I did a roasting course with Morten Münchow a few years ago and he seemed like a really switched on fella. The problem with milk seems to be more about getting it delivered fresh, a few times per week. If anyone sees anything that looks super high quality and they'll deliver to Sheffield, please let me know!


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

Scotford said:


> I wonder if this is the Noble Espresso gangs project with that Dutch (?) Barista that I keep hearing about.


Can't remember where he is from, Scandinavian I think. Most of his scientific endeavours have been around milk but he's also done quite a bit of consulting around developing roast profiles etc with some of the Nordic roasters. He's a food scientist guy I guess.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Morten! That's the one. Had a really good chat with him when he popped into London Grind ages ago. Some of the science he's putting to use in his milk analysis is outstanding! Did a bit of looking into The Estate Dairy and he's been in on it since inception.


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## "coffee 4/1" (Sep 1, 2014)

gave yeo valley organic ago today as Scotford suggested,Wow! knock's the filtered milk for six, as well as keeping all the coffee flavours and smoother than silk in cortado's


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## Novisteel (Dec 20, 2015)

Hi, I use 2% skimmed from Morrison but am not averse to comparing others.


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## lotuseater (Dec 25, 2015)

Arla lactose free, as age has made me intolerant. Find the full fat foams better than the semi-skimmed. Not sure why as it is supposed to be about the proteins, is it not?


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