# Alternative to Versalab m3



## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi don't panic I am not dissatisfied with my m3 - I love it and i'm not selling it on. I was chatting to a friend and they wanted to know what are the other high end grinders to consider for someone who wants to:

1. Single dose at home only

2. Have a grinder small enough for wife to be happy

I didn't know so I thought I'd ask? Obviously the m3 delivers on both but it hassle ringer from USA and is nearly £2000

Thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

And is electric?

Errrr

Hg1 ( you have to get that from the states too )

Whats does his wife consider to be small and how much has he got to spend


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Considering footprint, looks & very effective single dosing you will struggle to find a grinder that equals the Versalab.

Yes the EK43 & the large grinders of similar ilk will do the job, maybe faster, but they are not home kitchen or wife friendly.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks both... I'll open it up. Let's just say what are they main contenders/alternatives to the m3. Money and size no object but something suitable for single dosing and home use:

1. HG one


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Maybe a ZR71 , but I have no idea of the size , as like a yeti,the Loch Ness monster and fairys , I have never seen one .

oh the cost is probably much much more too.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

\ said:


> Maybe a ZR71 ' date=' but I have no idea of the size , as like a yeti,the Loch Ness monster and fairys , I have never seen one . oh the cost is probably much much more too.[/quote']
> 
> Ah.. This is terranovas new machine? I agree it is going to be amazing but unlikely to be cheaper than m3...!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

No DSC's

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?10753-ZR-71-grinder-project&highlight=Zr71


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

ahh yes i had forgotten about this... not an alternative at the moment but perhaps soon...


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Another vote for HG1

For single dosing, zero retention, great looks with small foot print, echo friendly, quick to clean.

Price might be an issue for some and is perfect for 1/3 shots per day or more if your arm is strong enough. If you can get your head around manual grinding it cannot be beaten on bang for buck flavour in the cup!


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

If include my contribution, that would make it:

*The Present*

1. HG one

2. HG one

3. HG one

*The Future*

1. ZR71 (with or without voice activation)


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Mmm, this may be a bit controversial, having never owned a m3, but it only has super jolly sizes burrs I believe, so notentirely convinced it will be that much better, especially a un modded "bad" one,

So get a feeling there's plenty of better grinders out there, and most flat burrs can be modded for single dosing,

conical is a different ball game

but the e92 seems to be shaping up nicely

(see coffee chaps thread)


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Yep, modded E92 or for less dosh you can get a Compak E10 and by use of an orphan espresso short stack hopper and a lens hood with a lid to puff out the grinds you can single dose quite effectively with no need for modifications, using the manual switch. Indeed the latter is a better choice out of the two IMO (although I must Declare I've never had use of an E92) as it has the forks to hold the pf for you and should you want to fill a hopper and use timed doses you can very easily which of course you can still do with the E92 but it seems to me the E10 is easier to use and less expensive

Of course I say this will all due deference and respect to E92 owners and I'm really not saying one is better than the other, this is just my musing on the subject


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

How about a Hario hand grinder and a butler?

The butler would be very wife friendly (would have to be careful he wasn't too friendly







) as he could bring her gin'n'tonics in the afternoon.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

So with Orangertange, CamV6 and Rhys's contributions:

The Present

1. HG one

2. HG one

3. HG one

4. e92

5. E10

6. Hario hand grinder and a butler

*
*

The Future

1. ZR71 (with or without voice activation)



*
*


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Orangertange said:


> Mmm, this may be a bit controversial, having never owned a m3, but it only has super jolly sizes burrs I believe, so notentirely convinced it will be that much better, especially a un modded "bad" one,
> 
> So get a feeling there's plenty of better grinders out there, and most flat burrs can be modded for single dosing,
> 
> ...


Are the flat burrs not only pre breakers though followed by conicals. I haven't tried one either but I can't see people forking out for them unless they're a bit better than a super jolly!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I need to stop reading this thread before I already cast one eye on a HG One before my felgrind even materialises for brewed duties!


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> I need to stop reading this thread before I already cast one eye on a HG One before my felgrind even materialises for brewed duties!


Do it, you won't regret it. I'm developing a real thing for hand grinders. Just added a feldgrind to the hg one and hausgrind combo. Hg for espresso and hausgrind for brewed.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Neill said:


> Do it, you won't regret it. I'm developing a real thing for hand grinders. Just added a feldgrind to the hg one and hausgrind combo. Hg for espresso and hausgrind for brewed.


 If you could like a post more than once, I would have.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

i do not really think there is anything any better than the M3 or HG for your specs. They have been designed to single dose and all of the other serious contenders have not, and have to be modded. This then makes the act of preparing a shot a ritual where you have to do all sorts of things to grind a shot. That is not today that these things are difficult and the end product is not superb, but, if you friend is anything like me then I find it much easier to accept foibles of a large conical that I press a switch and it completes the task. I find the whole topic of single dosing a pain in the arse. Who the hell is really bothered about a bit of wasteage and unless there is a noticeable difference in the cup, then it is not adding anything to the process, except perhaps going part way to help those ocd users.

With that in mind, then either M3/HG will do. The HG is far cheaper coming in at a round £700 plus shipping and tax and having owned 2 from new, the importing is a doddle. The importing is a doddle on the M3 as well, but, if money is no object, then he can buy the modded M£ from Slas who I am sure will haggle a bit and he will have everything he could possibly desire


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

So Neill and dfk make it:

The Present

1. HG one

2. HG one

3. HG one

4. e92

5. E10

6. Hario hand grinder and a butler

7. HG one and hausgrind/feldgrind combo

8. M3 (accepting 1-7, there isn't an alternative)

*
*The Future

1. ZR71 (with or without voice activation)

2. err, that's it for the future, so far

*
*

*
*

*
*


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> I need to stop reading this thread before I already cast one eye on a HG One before my felgrind even materialises for brewed duties!


Yeah keep on dreaming!!


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## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

In my opinion out of the grinders iv'e owned including the hg one nothing is as good for home use as a modded m3

the hg one was the grinder i owned just before buying the m3

i didn't expect to be much difference

but from the first cup it was big jump in taste profile to me

tell your friend to buy my modded versalab


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Let's not forget the VL can be used with its hopper and its special dose system and this is kind of using an electric on demand grinder with zero retention - I have not tried it but supposedly the hopper system is very accurate.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

slas111 said:


> In my opinion out of the grinders iv'e owned including the hg one nothing is as good for home use as a modded m3


Says the person trying to sell one


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## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

Lol

I'm sure dfk will back me up on my comments before i decided to sell i emailed dave of my delight of the m3


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Nod said:


> Ah.. This is terranovas new machine? I agree it is going to be amazing but unlikely to be cheaper than m3...!


Franks's (Terranova) grinder is out and can be seen here:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?23606-My-new-game-centre&highlight=slayer

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/custom-hybrid-terranova-grinder-t34677-30.html


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

slas111 said:


> In my opinion out of the grinders iv'e owned including the hg one nothing is as good for home use as a modded m3
> 
> the hg one was the grinder i owned just before buying the m3
> 
> ...


Yours is x4 the pricenof a hg1 though


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

That machine just doesn't do it for me, way too much faff and the big hole in the grinds when done... over a minute to get a shot.

It looks cool though.


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## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yoursnis x4 the pricenof a hg1 though


sushhhhhhh


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## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> That machine just doesn't do it for me, way too much faff and the big hole in the grinds when done... over a minute to get a shot.
> 
> It looks cool though.


mine has the hopper so one pull

zero retention 30secs including the finger swipe for perfection


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

slas111 said:


> mine has the hopper so one pull
> 
> zero retention 30secs including the finger swipe for perfection


Sorry was talking about the Terranova one.


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## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> Sorry was talking about the Terranova one.


I can see me owning one later in the year


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

charris said:


> I think he uses big conical burrs but I am not sure. i also remember that can also adjust the rpm of the motor.


Why would he do that big burrs are useless!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

slas111 said:


> I can see me owning one later in the year


At what £3-4 k your welcome to one

Would be a good match for the sage oracle...


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> Sorry was talking about the Terranova one.


Probably there is a custom designed hopper mechanism for that grinder also, similar to the VL one.


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## slas111 (Mar 25, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> At what £3-4 k your welcome to one
> 
> Would be a good match for the sage oracle...


do you really think i will still have the oracle by the end of the year!!









im actually looking at the Linea Mini now


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

thanks all... i have been out all day so not been able to post. I have enjoyed all of your comments, advice and chat. I am not very expert but the magnificence of the M3 is not in doubt for me... it is so consistent, sensitive and easy to use. It can be hard to distribute due to the hole you get which, if the dose is not big enough, can lead to channeling - i am going to post a new thread on this... - but even accounting for this it is awesome. Slas - your grinder is amazing and i will forward your post to my friend - it will all depend on price i suspect. I think he should go HG1 which is a nice step up to an M3 where i think he should eventually land.... ill do some reserach on the other suggestions.... so no one thinks k30, mythos etc.. are any good? i assume it is the single dosing issue that rules these kinds of beast out? too much retention and faff? thanks again for all the replies


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

i wouldn't say a mythos is wife friendly


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Have you asked one?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> i wouldn't say a mythos is wife friendly


My wife allows mine - and it's low faff too (the grinder)


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Hiya Paul, I have thought long and hard about this. The way I see it, you own an M3. I accept and appreciate that it has virtually no run off on the shaft, but if I asked what difference that makes to the grind process, could anyone answer? All of the other changes are cosmetic and whilst this is a fantastic looking and superbly constructed bit of kit, is it actually any better than a bog standard M3?


An M3 with a run off on the shaft does not grind properly. The grind size spectrum is too wide. And you end up with too coarse grinds and too fine grinds and a cup that tastes so bad. Also it often generates too much torque (you need grind very fine to pull shots) and slippery belt problems may appear.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

For the ordinary mere mortal the Versalab as currently delivered from the Factory works excellently.

If you wish to create a monument of the Machine so be it. To each his own:time-out:


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Not my experience, Ronsil. My M3 from the factory was horrible. Frank's quest for parallelism is not just a whim.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

We will probably never agree but my seven years of wonderful coffee from the factory fresh standard Versalab does it for me.

With the truly beautiful mods that can be carried out the circa £1500+ extra cost is really hard to justify.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Maybe a ZR71 , but I have no idea of the size , as like a yeti,the Loch Ness monster and fairys , I have never seen one .
> 
> oh the cost is probably much much more too.


Don't think 45cm x 30cm x 20cm and 20-25kg falls under wife friendly

T.


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

ronsil said:


> We will probably never agree but my seven years of wonderful coffee from the factory fresh standard Versalab does it for me.
> 
> With the truly beautiful mods that can be carried out the circa £1500+ extra cost is really hard to justify.


No need to agree. I trust you when you say that your M3 works well. Problem is that buying from Versalab is like play to lottery. You can get a nice grinder or you can get a lemon.


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