# Nespresso vs cheap manual machine and grinder?



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

"Nespresso?" Don't panic! I come in peace. I mainly drink Aeropress, sometimes V60, and occasionally syphon or stovetop. I grind my own, usually from local micro-roasters, looking forward to the summers of Ethiopians and winters of Brazilians, and try to convince myself that a lightly roasted natural does still taste enough like coffee to serve to a non-coffee-nerd friend.

The problems are two:

1. My espresso sucks. I've had a couple of cheap machines. I've modded my Delonghi disc burr grinder to go finer. It's still too inconsistent. I try riding the 'ready' light to get water at different temperatures to what the machines are calibrated to. I've reached the ceiling I think.

2. My wife loves milk drinks. I can spend ten minutes making a mess in the kitchen with frothing jugs and hand-held whizzers and get something lukewarm and less good than a Costa Express machine. And the beans I buy for filter don't work great for cappuccinos.

So I keep getting served Nespresso at people's houses - they're proud to serve me it as I'm their coffee guy. To me it tastes genuinely OK. I prefer the traditional espressos to the very bright and fruity ones anyway. And they're so quick and unmessy. And so I'm wondering a simple question, as I write my Christmas list:

Do I save up over the next year or so and spend nearly two hundred quid on a new Delonghi machine, and another similar amount on a much bigger and better grinder, or do I spend about one hundred on a basic Nespresso one with an Aeroccino and stop aspiring higher than I can ever justify spending on equipment? Is a £200 manual machine really any better than what I have? Or will I regret getting a convenience machine in six months time?

(I also have an expensive flat white habit in local indie shops but am still partial to a Costa from time to time. No accounting for taste.)

Please let me know if I'm going mad and sorry for sullying the good forum with this pod machine talk.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Think you've answered your own question. If you're into upmarket Nespresso pods, have a look at Colonna who are producing their own.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you are determined to see an improvement in your espresso, then that money may be better spent on a machine that you can draw comparisons with, when discussing with other users, maybe a 2nd hand Gaggia Classic, or Sage DTP?

My brother in law has a Nespresso, drinks are consistent, but smaller & perhaps weaker than typical espresso, you are limited to about 6.5 of coffee per shot, max. Of the large range they offer there are only a couple of pods that I'd go so far as to say I like. So you might be very limited with regards to choice. There are quality options available like the Colonna capsules now too.

Does the Nespresso taste OK enough to you that you would prefer to hit the ground running with OK & consistent coffee, or do you want to put in the work to get the best out of each bean through manual input...and perhaps be posting something similar in a year's time, with regards to upgrading (no shame in that, nor in wanting to drink good coffee without a time consuming pastime)?


----------



## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Go for a Gaggia Classic and a good grinder like a super jolly. Yes it is messier and more of a learning curve to get good results - but it is fun and when you crack it, it is worth all the effort (and expense!)


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

Jollybean said:


> Go for a Gaggia Classic and a good grinder like a super jolly. Yes it is messier and more of a learning curve to get good results - but it is fun and when you crack it, it is worth all the effort (and expense!)


Yikes! That looks like £600+ of gear. I couldn't do that I'm afraid. (I'm a musician and I'd probably rather have a new guitar or a few pedals!) I do enjoy the methodical process of getting better and have for a couple of years had a very reliable and tasty Aeropress method down, but I can't really go that far down the coffee rabbit hole financially.

That's why I'm wondering whether it's worth trying to squeeze the odd good shot out of the best examples of the sorts of machine you can buy anywhere (Delonghi or whatever) or whether to cash out and get a pod machine. I don't know how good the consumer-grade manual machines are.


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

MWJB said:


> If you are determined to see an improvement in your espresso, then that money may be better spent on a machine that you can draw comparisons with, when discussing with other users, maybe a 2nd hand Gaggia Classic, or Sage DTP?
> 
> My brother in law has a Nespresso, drinks are consistent, but smaller & perhaps weaker than typical espresso, you are limited to about 6.5 of coffee per shot, max. Of the large range they offer there are only a couple of pods that I'd go so far as to say I like. So you might be very limited with regards to choice. There are quality options available like the Colonna capsules now too.
> 
> Does the Nespresso taste OK enough to you that you would prefer to hit the ground running with OK & consistent coffee, or do you want to put in the work to get the best out of each bean through manual input...and perhaps be posting something similar in a year's time, with regards to upgrading (no shame in that, nor in wanting to drink good coffee without a time consuming pastime)?


Thanks. I find Aeropress (17g of coffee) is so strong that I don't want more than two per day, and often only one. Recently I've even started popping some supermarket ground in a cafetière or my cheap espresso machine to get a cheaper and weaker (but really not very nice) drink I can have after my morning shot in the arm.

I'd like my espresso to be better, definitely, but Aeropress has treated me to nearly best of the brewed/filtered world. I go to indie shops and don't find their equivalents to be enough better than mine to be a treat, but the espressos are (obviously) like night and day. That's why I'm wondering what the best way to give up trying is...


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

webnik said:


> Thanks. I find Aeropress (17g of coffee) is so strong that I don't want more than two per day, and often only one. Recently I've even started popping some supermarket ground in a cafetière or my cheap espresso machine to get a cheaper and weaker (but really not very nice) drink I can have after my morning shot in the arm.


Have you tried using a little less coffee in the aeropress? If you like espresso, it's maybe not the strength of the Aeropress that might be your issue, perhaps reducing the dose will make it more tolerable (even maybe reducing the coffee dose & water amount together)? You can make coffee almost as strong as the Aeropress in the cafetiere...but, I don't find singularly pursuing strength to bring out the best in a cafetiere. Probably best to aim a bit weaker, "nice" should be very accessible.


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Have you tried using a little less coffee in the aeropress? If you like espresso, it's maybe not the strength of the Aeropress that might be your issue, perhaps reducing the dose will make it more tolerable (even maybe reducing the coffee dose & water amount together)? You can make coffee almost as strong as the Aeropress in the cafetiere...but, I don't find singularly pursuing strength to bring out the best in a cafetiere. Probably best to aim a bit weaker, "nice" should be very accessible.


You know, I'd never thought of that. I'm not aiming for strength, just the nicest tasting recipe I found used 17g and in a lightly roasted bean that's going to be a lot of caffeine.

I'll give this a go. If I can decant it into an espresso cup I could probably get a much nicer short black drink than from my existing cheap espresso machine. If you get one of those metal filters for Aeropress do you get to keep a little crema even?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

webnik said:


> You know, I'd never thought of that. I'm not aiming for strength, just the nicest tasting recipe I found used 17g and in a lightly roasted bean that's going to be a lot of caffeine.
> 
> I'll give this a go. If I can decant it into an espresso cup I could probably get a much nicer short black drink than from my existing cheap espresso machine. If you get one of those metal filters for Aeropress do you get to keep a little crema even?


No, you don't get crema. You sometimes get little light foam on immersion brews, but it's not crema.


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

I didn't know they were different.









I love the nice clean cup from Aeropress but a very clean, paper-filtered espresso substitute would look a little bit odd.


----------



## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Second hand Gaggia £150 and a Super Jolly for about £200 so still a lot of money but not quite as bad as £600.


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

And is that the general accepted outlay for getting a decent entry level setup? (Ignoring tampers and mats and all the other bits you end up acquiring)


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

webnik said:


> And is that the general accepted outlay for getting a decent entry level setup? (Ignoring tampers and mats and all the other bits you end up acquiring)


You could probably pick up a rr45 or something for £50 if you're patient and probably a Gaggia classic for £60-100.


----------



## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

webnik said:


> Yikes! That looks like £600+ of gear. I couldn't do that I'm afraid. (I'm a musician and I'd probably rather have a new guitar or a few pedals!) I do enjoy the methodical process of getting better and have for a couple of years had a very reliable and tasty Aeropress method down, but I can't really go that far down the coffee rabbit hole financially.
> 
> That's why I'm wondering whether it's worth trying to squeeze the odd good shot out of the best examples of the sorts of machine you can buy anywhere (Delonghi or whatever) or whether to cash out and get a pod machine. I don't know how good the consumer-grade manual machines are.


second hand you can be up and running for £200

i wanted to buy new, but saw the sense in s/w, after all, new stuff is s/h as soon as you use it


----------



## hun_kab (Oct 10, 2016)

Agreed!


----------



## mdizzle1 (Nov 13, 2016)

If you like convenience, you could try getting a pressurised espresso pump machine like the Delonghi Ec680 which can be picked up new for about £150 maybe less now.

The machine can take, freshly ground coffee, shop bought grounds or alternatively ESE pods (look like tea bags with coffee in). My set up produces very nice espresso plus the steam wand makes great frothy milk. The ESE pods are decent, definitely more coffee tasting than the like of nespresso. Pods can be found very cheap online (100 for £20).


----------



## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Personally I'd go for Nespresso, now with C&S offering their pods there's bound to be more companies doing similar things, so choice should be plenty. I do agree it's silly easy as well, and sometimes this is what I like myself (up to the point where I was seriously considering buying something on offer just for laughs and those lazy days).

T.


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

Thanks guys. I think convenience and an upgrade dead end may win out. I just had a week abroad and coped fine with a mokka pot and no-name Italian ground. Different stuff for different days I guess.

I'm lucky enough to have a number of friends who run 3rd wave shops and roasters in my corner of Yorkshire and get a lot of free drinks when new beans need dialling in, so I'm fully aware how far Nespresso falls short. I don't think for home purposes that the manual route sounds like it's for me - if what's really needed to start that is a Gaggia and a new grinder and a tonne of experimenting.

Sorry to everyone I'm letting down!







I'll still be one of you for Aeropress and V60 purposes...


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Yorkshire you say? Needing a gaggia classic to be "one of us"? There's an iberatal floating around for about £50 plus post and I know a lovely lady selling a classic, she's witty, beautiful...

If you change your mind and want a sub £200 set up its easily possible. (Check the for sale stuff)

Of course aeropress and v60 are lovely.... But....


----------



## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

You won't beat the convenience of a Nespresso with a semi manual setup. Sure you can beat it tastewise, but consider how much time and effort that usually takes.

T.


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

Missy said:


> Yorkshire you say? Needing a gaggia classic to be "one of us"? There's an iberatal floating around for about £50 plus post and I know a lovely lady selling a classic, she's witty, beautiful...
> 
> jkl;
> 
> ...


 Gah! I'll think. I'm about ten minutes from the foot of North Yorkshire on the very tip of Leeds, and my wife's family live on Teesside. It would be convenient if you could tell me you're still an hour or more out of my way so I don't have to make a decision.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Nope. Just outside catterick. With family in Leeds. So even if you go up the A19 I could meet you somewhere.

No rush. My new machine isn't anywhere near me yet!


----------



## webnik (Nov 13, 2013)

OK. I'll have a think.









(You live in a very nice part of the world!)


----------



## Digger (Oct 22, 2017)

Having the same conundrum (and need to up posts to see if I can afford even the most basic set up!)


----------

