# Can't seem to figure out grinder setting on Mazzer



## foges (Apr 22, 2018)

Hey! I hope this is the right place to post.

I recently "upgraded" from a Baratza Encore to a used Mazzer Major, to use with my Fracino Cherub. The Encore made alright espresso (19g seemed about right), but not very consistent. Since switching to the Major on the other hand I haven't been able to make a single good shot of espresso. They all come out way too fast, and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Here is what I've done so far. I've set the grind coarseness between 1-2 notches from the point where the burrs touch (when the grinder is on), experimented with different amounts of beans, and different tamp pressures.

This is what the grinds look like at 1 notch, and here is a photo of 17g of beans looks like in the portafilter (non-compacted).

Here is a video of 14g of beans going through the Cherub. As you can see it comes out very quickly (30g in around 12 seconds from the time I turn on the machine).

Here is a similar video of 17g beans. It also comes out very quickly, and sprays all over the place very thin streams (hard to see in video).

And a video of 19g of beans. Same story, but less crema.

Based on my research, it seems like there are a couple of options:


Increase the amount of beans. I've done this and if I push it above 20g then it slows down, but I lose most of the crema. 20g also seems like a lot, or am I wrong?

Make grinds even finer. I feel like if I make it even finer I'll just end up with powder, and it also feels like I'd be cutting it awfully close.

Make the grinds coarser. This seems non-intuitive.

Tamp more or less. I've tried this, but maybe I did too much or too little?


Really hoping that someone here can help. Thank you!!!

Cheers,

Chris


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Did you remove the burr adjustment ring, open the burr chamber and look at the top and bottom burr

Did you clean it and the threads on the adjuster

How do you know the burrs were touching

What and where is the coffee from

the grind looks quite coarse, but it's hard to tell


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

How fresh / old is the coffee ? how has it been stored ? Hot weather ?


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## foges (Apr 22, 2018)

Thanks for the super quick replies. Answers to the questions:

Q: Did you remove the burr adjustment ring, open the burr chamber and look at the top and bottom burr

A: Yes, I took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly when I first got it. Here are some pictures of the burrs now.

Q: Did you clean it and the threads on the adjuster

A: Yes. The threads had quite a bit of some lubricant on them that I removed and instead added some other oil (although now it's a bit too hard to turn the adjuster)

Q: How do you know the burrs were touching

A: By the sound of it when the machine is turned on. It makes a pretty big difference when you turn too far.

Q: What and where is the coffee from

A: It's a Northern Italian Espresso Blend from Zombie Runner in Palo Alto, CA, imported to London. One of my favorite coffee shops. I'd say it's a pretty dark roast.

Q: How fresh / old is the coffee ? how has it been stored ? Hot weather ?

A: It was roasted on the 5th of July, then left in a suitcase (almost always indoors), brought back to the UK on the 15th of July, and put in the freezer and left there since then. I took it out of the freezer this morning (photos and videos from this afternoon). It hasn't been exposed to hot weather.

Based on the observation that "the grind looks quite coarse, but it's hard to tell" I tried making it even finer (around 1/3 a notch from the point when burrs touch). This time it came out partly in clumps (photo of 16.4g), but this time it came out much slower, with an extraction time of 1min40sec (video). I guess I just need to really fine tune it between 1/3 - 1 notch







. Does that seem likely?

PS: How many grams of coffee should I be aiming for? Some sources seem to say 14g, and others closer to 18g.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Have you been successful with those beans before?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

foges said:


> Thanks for the super quick replies. Answers to the questions:
> 
> Q: Did you remove the burr adjustment ring, open the burr chamber and look at the top and bottom burr
> 
> ...


Fine adjustment between full notches is quite common when dialing in. It's also worth pulling 2 or 3 shots before changing so grinds from the previous adjustment aren't giving you a mixed dose.

Dose depends on the basket you're using. Since you had decent results using 19g with your old grinder I'd start there. Try to only adjust one variable (dose, grind, tamp pressure) at a time.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

They can make a noise of sorts pumping air when the burrs are close. I check the zero by hand - not possible to rotate the lower burr via the nut.Pass on a Major but on a Mini the setting is several notches coarser than that.

I did buy another mini, said to be new and properly boxed etc and it wouldn't behave. The burrs were seriously out of square. No idea what that would do to a shot as it never got that far with me. I noticed because the zero point as I checked it varied a fair amount in mazzer terms according to the rotation of the burr.

John

-


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

One vote for a pair on new burrs.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The Zero point to espresso range on my major is approx 11-12 notches. If that help


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

foges said:


> Q: Did you remove the burr adjustment ring, open the burr chamber and look at the top and bottom burr
> 
> A: Yes, I took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly when I first got it. Here are some pictures of the burrs now.


It's clean when there's no coffee grounds anywhere. 

Always completely disassemble: take out the burrs and clean underneath, screws, recesses, everything!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

With the grinder unplugged &completely cleared of beans and grounds, wind down collar until burrs just kiss when rotated by hand / socket.

Do the burrs touch in one place then miss for a large part of rotation ? If this is happening it could be that a previous owner has levered off the lower carrier (instead of pulling evenly) and bent the lower carrier. IF this is the case you will require a new lower carrier.

A slight touch and miss could be just the burrs require shimming.

As stated above ideally completely strip and clean. Also check the collar threads in the grinder, very often grounds get buit up and jam in the lower thread roots and prevent easy adjustment at lower settings.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> With the grinder unplugged &completely cleared of beans and grounds, wind down collar until burrs just kiss when rotated by hand / socket.
> 
> Do the burrs touch in one place then miss for a large part of rotation ? If this is happening it could be that a previous owner has levered off the lower carrier (instead of pulling evenly) and bent the lower carrier. IF this is the case you will require a new lower carrier.
> 
> ...


Good shout Frank


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## foges (Apr 22, 2018)

@ashcroc: Thanks for the suggestion. I've definitely found that the retention is higher than what I was hoping. I've ended up blowing a fair bit of air through the burrs to try to get as much as possible out (I'm usually within around 0.2g of what I put in). I'll spend some time playing with different quantities of beans and coarsness in the range 1/3 to 1.

@ajohn: I can go nearly a full notch further when the machine is off before the burr gets completely stuck. It definitely sounds like it's not as bad as the mini you're describing.

@L&R: How can you tell? How often should the burrs be replaced?

@urbanbumpkin: 11-12 notches sounds like a lot. That's more than one full turn. I'm surprised that the manufacturing variance is so high. Have you done anything special to your machine?

@Hasi: Haha, yes I did take everything apart and clean every last corner when I bought the machine, same way as you've depicted. Since then I've probably put two bags of coffee through it. There are a lot of places where the coffee powder gets stuck it would seem.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I pulled another shot this morning with the adjuster set to around 2/3 notch from zero and it came out a bit too slow, and tasted a bit too bitter. That was with 17g. My next step was going to be to decrease the amount of coffee a bit. This thread suggests 16g for blander coffees and 12g for powerful coffees. I would guess that my portafilter is the 14g version by Fracino, so experimenting a bit in that range seems like a good idea. Does that seem reasonable?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Absolutely.

If the original specification of the basket is 14g then this is where you start.

You might be able to overfill to a certain extent, but never squeeze in.

Grind coarseness somewhere near table salt will also give you at least a straw to grasp at









And again, one setting at a time.

Extraction should be in the ballpark of 1:2 grams input : grams output within a timeframe of around 30s. No absolute figures given there are too many variables (including personal preference/nerdiness) having an influence.


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## tobyjrn6 (Dec 22, 2016)

Grind looks way too coarse from what i can see, id say use the dose that the basket is rated for and work outwards (coarser) from burrs touching when turned manually as others have said, if that wont choke out your shot then you know something else is the problem. Incidentally I usually hear a change in sound before the burrs actually touch on my major when its running.

I highly doubt this is as complicated as its being made


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

When I have problem with fine grinding while burs almost touch one another they are worn in my personal experience and this is just a suggestion. You need to open and check them.

BR


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

I think notches from urbanbumpkin refers to the number of vertical ridges around the circumference of the adjustment wheel rather than numbered markings on the horizontal surface


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Jollybean said:


> I think notches from urbanbumpkin refers to the number of vertical ridges around the circumference of the adjustment wheel rather than numbered markings on the horizontal surface


Yes that's what I'm referring to, the big numbers are just for show


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Yes that's what I'm referring to, the big numbers are just for show


Never understood the intention behind those numbers, anyways...


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