# Soggy pucks with new Alex Duetto...



## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

I would be grateful for any comments, observations, reassurances or whatever please.

Since I got the Alex a couple of weeks ago I have noticed that the pucks are often wet and disintegrate in the knock box or come out whole but soggy/sloppy.

I am doing exactly the same as I had for ages with the Silvia. 18g in a VST 17 basket, quick WDT, tamping to the same pressure using the click mat, and getting good to great shots within the 26-28 second zone. OK so I may be grinding a notch or two finer on the Vario with Alex? Using this method with Silvia the pucks came out as firm dry "cakes".

If the taste is just as good or better, should I be concerned.....?

Grateful for any suggestions...... Thanks in advance.

Ian


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Head space is probably different machine v machine ,and, compounded by finer grinding which leave a dose which is deeper in the basket.

Does the coffee taste good?

I find with my Expobar e61 and 18g VST - once dialled in then 9 coffees out of 10 pucks come out in one


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

IanP said:


> If the taste is just as good or better, should I be concerned.....?
> 
> Grateful for any suggestions...... Thanks in advance. Ian


Hi Ian - if it tastes good, don't worry. Wet pucks are linked to grind, dose and tamp issues usually. Age of beans can be a factor but if you are getting a consistent good shot in 27secs and the taste is good, that's what matters.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

It isn't something that happens to me with my Duetto very often (1 in 10 ish). What beans/grinder are you using? Maybe try 17g and see if it makes a difference.

I agree it doesn't matter really if the coffee taste good but if its messy it can be annoying.


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

lookseehear said:


> It isn't something that happens to me with my Duetto very often (1 in 10 ish). What beans/grinder are you using? Maybe try 17g and see if it makes a difference.
> 
> I agree it doesn't matter really if the coffee taste good but if its messy it can be annoying.


Thanks all and Luke, I am using the Vario and local roasters Winter Blend which I have been hooked on for months...... a sort of mahogany roast with little surface oils. I will experiment with going down to 17 and up to 19 and report back. Great to have such helpful and speedy responses on this great forum!

Ian


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

IanP said:


> Thanks all and Luke, I am using the Vario and local roasters Winter Blend which I have been hooked on for months...... a sort of mahogany roast with little surface oils. I will experiment with going down to 17 and up to 19 and report back. Great to have such helpful and speedy responses on this great forum!
> 
> Ian


Your coffee sounds interesting.... What is the name of the company??


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Gangstarrrrr said:


> Your coffee sounds interesting.... What is the name of the company??


Hi,

Winter Blend is 50 % Sumatra Wahana, 25 % java Jampit and 25% Cuba Serrano.

http://www.butterworthandson.co.uk/demo/index.php?nav=tea&cat=504

Plenty of great coffee here. Peru Tunki is amazing as is Raul Mamanis winning Peru. Need to try the Pinabety cup of excellence and Guatemala next, as I haven't got to these yet. Rob Butterworth is a real enthusiast, helpful and will often make me an espresso of what's new when I go there to buy. He does mail order too via the website.

Happy hunting!

Ian


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

The pucks from my Vivi were mostly on the soggy side, but great tasting coffee.


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## JonR10 (Apr 6, 2013)

If the coffee tastes good then that is what's most important to me.

Generally speaking, the headspace comment above is inline with my experience...meaning that more headspace can lead to more liquid left on top of the puck at the end of the shot. As an experiment, you might try going just a little more coarse on the grind while increacing the dose and see if that produces a more solid puck. Also note how this changes the flavor and texture of the shot


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

At the moment i am using a complimentary bag of beans from BB (could be their house blend)

These beans need to be ground coarser, bigger dosage and about 40lb worth of pressure to get a good flavour from them, in fact i really like them, though the pucks are really dry and tight they take some knocking out with a thump/

i have never really worried about dry/ wet pucks, just about getting the full flavour from that particular bean to my likening IMO


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Having experimented for a few days, some interesting results, hardly conclusive, but maybe worth noting?

Having read around that this could be due to under dosing, overdosing, grinding too fine, over tamping..... You name it!

Using the 17g VST, tried 16g then incrementally in gs up to 19. Tamp consistent but grind needed adjustment. Still soggy pucks whichever way. No really poor shots but none remarkable. Now with 15g VST and having tried 15 and 16g in, still soggy but flavoursome shots. Today put 18 in the 15 basket, still plenty of headroom, got stonking flavours, consistency over three shots, and........ A dry cake for a puck!!

Will continue on this line and see how it goes.

Does this prove anything or not, I ask myself, or can any experts on here shed light on what I should have been doing with the 17 basket?

Maybe I should just enjoy having the 'problem' solved and drink tasty shots.....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

IanP said:


> Today put 18 in the 15 basket, still plenty of headroom, got stonking flavours, consistency over three shots, and........ A dry cake for a puck!!


That *is *interesting, Ian. Just goes to show that, in the end, go your own way. Been using 18grms in the 17grm VST and am going to experiment with the 15grm VST to test out the theory that less doseage opens out the flavour profile where upping it produces stronger more concentrated flavour.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Why do soggy pucks matter? I was reading about this at the weekend I often get very wet pucks. On coffee geek forums, the overwhelming consensus was that it does not really mater, although it might be one clue if your shots are bad. In all honesty, its something that I'm really not sure about and want to investigate more.


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## Sticky (Jan 10, 2013)

I've had the same issue on occasion and have come to the opinion that it is mostly down to dosing.

I now no longer really care once I've got my beans dialled in, but I don't weigh my shots every time, so I have assumed it is due to under dosing.

I will be interested to hear if someone tracks down the cause as certain beans seem to do it more than others.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Sticky said:


> I've had the same issue on occasion and have come to the opinion that it is mostly down to dosing.
> 
> I now no longer really care once I've got my beans dialled in, but I don't weigh my shots every time, so I have assumed it is due to under dosing.
> 
> I will be interested to hear if someone tracks down the cause as certain beans seem to do it more than others.


The only thing that leaves me with drier, but not completely dry like the commercial machine I used to use, is a courser grind with harder tamp. As if the post-extraction 'drainage' is greater. But is it all a red herring anyway?


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