# Finished with home espresso!



## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Thats it from now on I'm not making (or attempting to make...) another espresso shot at home!

Everytime I turn on the machine, let it warm up, and then start the dialing in before I know it about 5 shots are in the bin & its still no where nearer where it should be!

Gary's spent time with me, the R58 is perfect the grinder is perfect, Pergtamp VST baskets all the gear no idea!!!

So sitting here drinking a beautiful french press which took 4 minutes to make (no warming up time required!)

The R58 can sit there looking pretty & redundant & if I ever see a nice piece of glass in to sit in its place it'll be on the classifieds here.

Sure the 75e on order will make beautiful grinds for the french press so that can stay!

I'll leave the great long blacks to my local barista who makes it all look so easy!

never has the phrase 'the climbs not worth the view' been more apt...


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## herc182 (May 13, 2015)

I sympathise. I seem to get varied results from the same set up all the time. Irritating !!!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Is this a call for help ?

i guess if you happy with your brewed that's good , it can seem an upward struggle to get to the top of the hill but it surely shouldn't be an arduous journey.

can I ask what coffee you have been using ?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Where are you based?

Home barista training will usually fix the common issues.

I see you've already been down that path though.

The dialling in each time shouldn't be required unless you are changing the bag each shot.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Seriously? I'd have a breather and then look again taking it one step at a time, would be a waste of a machine just to look at it.

I'd swap you my classic for it but it's just not as pretty lol

Have another crack man, I've had some right head fits but then when something nice comes out, you sip and know it was all worth it.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Thecatlinux said:


> Is this a call for help ?
> 
> can I ask what coffee you have been using ?


Nope! just the realisation that I'm actually no further forward than I was about 2 years ago with a Sylvia & Rocky! *though a significant amount of time & effort not to mention £££'s seems to have been in vain...

I've used Workshop beans / the Hasbean Gary bought & 'Roast&Post' Italian espresso blend which is my favourite in the press











Glenn said:


> Where are you based?
> 
> Home barista training will usually fix the common issues.
> 
> ...


Based in Birmingham & Gary was great he taught me a LOT I feel I do know what to do it just aint happening in the shot!

The only thing I seem to achieve with any consistency at the moment is making a mess in the kitchen!!!


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

This may seem like a silly question - but do you have scales?

Take it right back to basics and build from there

Set temp at 93c

Weigh dose at the level for your basket (eg 18g for 18g VST or 15g for 15g VST)

Play with extraction until you are happy (start at 1:2 then move towards 1:1.6 ratio) - eg 18g in 36g out in about 27 seconds

Stay with the time and grind setting the same and adjust the dose accordingly

Once you have this nailed then adjust the temp up/down by .5c and see if that improves it

Once dialled in you shouldn't need to fiddle too much and each shot will be close to the last one

The more variables you change the harder it is to correct, and harder to get back to a good point


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

When Gary was with you, were you happy with the shots he was able to produce on your equipment?

Do you like espresso when you go to a good coffee shop?


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

Would it be worth getting Gary to come back and assess your technique, see if he can help tweak things to get a good cup? Seems such a shame to just give up.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Where you based?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Glenn said:


> This may seem like a silly question - but do you have scales?
> 
> Take it right back to basics and build from there
> 
> ...


Thankyou Glenn - very much appreciated everyone taking the time to help me here









I do have two set of scales one for the basket & one under the portafilter, baskets 18.5g into a 18g VST, "play with the extraction till you are happy"... after about 40 minute I give up & reach for the French Press!

I'll leave everything be and maybe in a few months turn it all back on again!


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Dylan said:


> When Gary was with you, were you happy with the shots he was able to produce on your equipment?
> 
> Do you like espresso when you go to a good coffee shop?


Yep Gary makes it look easy!

I go to my local 'indi' espresso bar daily, twice daily often! probably because its got a great vibe in there & enjoy the banter as much as the superb coffee!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

And Gary wasn't unable to offer any pointers on where you might be going wrong? What exactly was wrong with the 'taste' of the shots you were getting?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I feel for yiu and it makes me sad on your behalf to read this.

Can you try to explain what's wrong with the flavour of your shots, for you?

Can I suggest trying an IMS basket. They really do make a difference to the flavour. Much softer and gentler on the palate.

Also remember what's nice as a brewed isn't alwys so well suited to espresso for some tastes


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

The VST baskets may be your problem as these are just ridiculously fussy. Try IMS baskets as Cam suggests or equally EP HQ baskets are very easy to get even extractions out of.

I struggle sometimes with my 15g VST basket on my Cherub for no apparent reason. It is demoralising and I too am also preferring to make brewed coffee instead of espresso currently.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

CamV6 said:


> Can you try to explain what's wrong with the flavour of your shots, for you?


Thanks Cam! I don't even get as far as tasting the shots! They either gush out or stall the machine or fall somewhere between the two! & repeat next time I turn the machine on...

I must have pulled 6 shots last night and none were even between 25-35 seconds didn't even bother to taste any of them, so whilst my enjoyment of coffee has not changed the way I'll be making it in foreseeable future has, I simply don't have the patience anymore - or at the present time - to devote to home espresso.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The basket is not the problem.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Sorry to hear of your woes Simon. Nothing more frustrating than spending all that time (and money) without anything to show for it in the cup.

From what you are saying, you are still a fan of espresso but struggle to consistently match the coffee shop experience at home. Have you thought of trying a different combo to make life easier?

the R58 and the Zenith are both great bits of kit and more than capable of producing good results, but there are easier options. Something like the Sage Oracle takes a lot of the variation out of the process and is well regarded by several on here whose opinions are backed up by considerable experience. It may not be as shiny as the Rocket but you might find that you get more pleasure from it.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

mrsimba said:


> I don't even get as far as tasting the shots! They either gush out or stall the machine or fall somewhere between the two!


So since you said you are using scales and measuring at regular intervals we can presume the dose is consistent?

So is the problem the grind consistency or the tamp?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks Nick - I have actually just been looking at the Sage DB this may be a future way forward!

*Please note at no point in this thread have I blamed the tools! defiantly the workman at fault here!!!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Are you keeping you grinder topped up with a decent amount of beans?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

mrsimba said:


> Everytime I turn on the machine, let it warm up, and then start the dialing in before I know it about 5 shots are in the bin & its still no where nearer where it should be!


I'm not familiar with the particulars of the grinder, but I don't think it should require that much adjustment on a daily basis.



jeebsy said:


> Are you keeping you grinder topped up with a decent amount of beans?


^


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Are you still using the same grinder as before ? Even I had trouble getting consistency from that

If you make 3 shots back-to-back do you get the same results?


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## Jedi oh (Mar 17, 2015)

I feel your pain. Going through a similar experience with my set up, and find I'm getting much more enjoyable coffee from my syphon maker.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, hopefully the good advice here will help.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If it's the case a first shot is a gusher and that's leading to you adjusting,could it be you're not purging the stale grounds for the first of the day?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I found the grinder needed purging LOADS more than claimed between changes


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I bet if you had a Sage DB and a K30 for a few hours you'd find your mojo again


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> The basket is not the problem.


agreed

sounds to me like you might be making too wide an adjustment between grinds in search of the right point. I suggest clear an hour where you have no distractions. Keep the dose and weight of tamp constant and simply adjust the grind just a tiny bit each time until you get to the right point. if you are filling the hopper as opposed to single dosing, remember to purge a few g of grind each time after adjusting and before grinding for the next shot


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## Zephyr (Apr 19, 2015)

Glenn said:


> This may seem like a silly question - but do you have scales?
> 
> Take it right back to basics and build from there
> 
> ...


I agree with this! I still don't see the actual problem, whats wrong with the espresso you making ? I've had my R58 for a month and half now and only last week i started getting some consistent results with both espresso and milk. I tried pretty much every local roaster i could find, to find the coffee i like and stick with it for a while just to get it right every time. Getting the grind took me about 1kg of coffee beans may be even more, and still i dial up or down a notch here and there. But milk was totally different problem, i buy semi skimmed green bottle, it was just a habit and could never get proper result, always too runny for latte art, so i started to buy full fat blue bottle, and straight away could get it right every time. One more problem was the basket that was supplied with rocket bottomless PF, not very good one so i went got myself IMS precision basket 18-20g, and i see better results during extraction. Get scales if you don't have them already, it will help for consistency.

Well I honestly believed it was the machine at first, going from Gaggia Classic to Rocket R58 i didnt see much of a difference in my coffee or my skills. It takes time to master it, for some longer than others. Stick with it and keep practicing and you will see good results.


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## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

The 65E is the only grinder I've ever had so I don't have anything to compare to. I can still see what the money would get me with a more expensive grinder. However, I manage to get pretty decent consistency from it. It's almost bob on 18g every time and even without purging I get pretty consistent shots. I'm currently using the much recommended Foundry Rocko Mountain and find it exceptionally easy to use on the 65E. Could be as simple as finding a forgiving bean to use as a platform. I rarely touch the dial once I'm dialled in, which is normally 1-3 shots. I would normally make a couple of adjustments throughout a 1kg bag. If your shots are that wildly out, maybe consider the humidity the beans in the hopper are subject to? Near a radiator? In line of the steam blast? Next to oven/hob? Near rear of fridge/freezer? By a window? In sunlight? How and where are you storing the beans?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Are you still using the same grinder as before ? Even I had trouble getting consistency from that
> 
> If you make 3 shots back-to-back do you get the same results?


thanks Gary yep still the 65e!

to be honest the 75e is already purchased & awaiting delivery I probably could cancel it but won't I'm sure curiosity at some point will get the better of me & I'll see how it compares!

As said the fault I'm sure is somewhere between me not using the machine daily and my lack of patience!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Feel your frustration/irritation matey.

Some good advice above.

For my happeth' I'll suggest getting some Coffee Compass Brighton Lanes. It is the most tolerant coffee I've ever used. It doesn't punish bad distribution and has a very wide grind window too. Might get you a couple of drinks you don't want to sink. You can rebuild from there.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Forgive my ignorance but why are people so quick to write off the vst baskets as being the cause? Anyone going from stock baskets to vst can have a terrible time due to how fussy they are in terms of distribution and dose. Maybe 65E just negates these problems?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

fatboyslim said:


> Forgive my ignorance but why are people so quick to write off the vst baskets as being the cause? Anyone going from stock baskets to vst can have a terrible time due to how fussy they are in terms of distribution and dose. Maybe 65E just negates these problems?


Maybe if that was the only thing the OP had changed recently then it could be a factor. While they might be a bit more demanding in terms of distribution, OP has an OD grinder and machine that should be more than capable of getting a good pour.

A basket doesn't make one pour choke then the next one gush. It's something else.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I've been in the exact same spot a few years back and only now decided to give espresso another shot and I still only drink americano's (mind you this is after spending loads of cash / time on a DIY grinder). Main question I have is do you need espresso at all? I'm sure pretty much everyone will agree this is one of the hardest methods to make coffee and is super finicky when it comes to pretty much everything. If brewed works for you and makes you happy why not stick with it?

T.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I would think rocket is going to fairly consistant , teh coffee and the grinder is always going to play a big part in proceedings .

making espresso at home is never going to be easy and I can sympathise with the op to have invested so much time and effort and let's not forget money and then not to be rewarded with a cup of coffee.

i would be the first to agree that the VST baskets take a little bit of getting used too , but I would say they just amplify any poor distribution or tamping IMO they aren't the cause of things going haywire .

for me haywire extractions always start with me frustrating with the grind settings and too eager to adjust them ( when will I learn)


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Not familiar with the grinder but sounds like a case of chasing the grind. Espresso can be frustrating and sometimes particular coffees just won't seem to play ball.

Just make small incremental changes and repeat each change at least once before moving on to eliminate other variables. This should help eliminate some jumpin around between gushers and chokers.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Good advice from forzajuve, when you change the grind setting it won't fully take effect on the next grind as there will be some grinds from the previous setting still in the burrs an burr chamber. You should therefore always grind a few grams of coffee and discard it after changing the setting.


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

Too many variables to give you accurate advice. We'd have to know your exact routine. But buying new equipment won't necessarily make your espresso better - when you currently have equipment that is capable of fantastic espresso.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Taylor The Latte Boy said:


> Too many variables to give you accurate advice. We'd have to know your exact routine. But buying new equipment won't necessarily make your espresso better - when you currently have equipment that is capable of fantastic espresso.


Agreed! 100%!!!

For the amount of coffee I drink at home and having a fantastic indi just over the road who I can visit, the amount of time & effort I've spent to trying to 'master' the art of espresso myself it is just no longer something I'm going to be trying to pursue.

I'm sure I actually got better results with my old Sylvia & Mignon maybe that was the 'sweet spot' for me where my abilities were greater than the equipments, the balance sure seems reversed right now!!!

Maybe in a few months or so I'll look at it all again but brewed coffee is where its at for myself at home right now!

I really genuinely do appreciate all the help & advice offered both on this thread & via PM though, this really is a fabulous forum


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

I was once in a very very similar situation (ready to chuck it all in), what I read from your posts is exactly the same issue I had. One shot choked the machine, the next was a 14 second shot and both on the same grind setting, so I really understand how you feel.

If you are enjoying brewed just carry on with that for a while then when you are ready, in a month, 2 months when you feel like it, fire up the rocket and give it another go... Or you might get the inspiration when your new grinder arrives.

Keep the faith,

MrO


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Probably should have a look back at Mr O's thread when he was giving it all up (then I think went on a coffee equipment buying spree)...think most of us feel the same at some point, just look on it as a blip. You'll get there again when your loving making espresso's.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Mr O said:


> what I read from your posts is exactly the same issue I had. One shot choked the machine, the next was a 14 second shot and both on the same grind setting, so I really understand how you feel.


The very same! though despite my toys being well & truly thrown across the floor today I'm not going to cancel the 75e & I know Claudette would not have a problem with me doing so if I called her tomorrow so sure at some point I'll do exactly as you say & give it all another go!


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

GCGlasgow said:


> Probably should have a look back at Mr O's thread when he was giving it all up (then I think went on a coffee equipment buying spree)...think most of us feel the same at some point, just look on it as a blip. You'll get there again when your loving making espresso's.


I'll go & look it out now! - Thankyou


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Making coffee, is like layers on a cake. Each one is integral to the overall effect and if one layer is wrong, then the result will not be good. SO, the start is choosing a bean that is lets say fresh. Then weighing out, and grinding (pitfalls plenty if you try single dosing and have not adjusted your technique), then distributing the grinds into the pf and tamping. Even understanding how much coffee to have in the pf. Weighing out and how much to extract and over how long.

Get all of the right and the rest will follow. Like any fault finding process, go back to the start


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Obnic said:


> Feel your frustration/irritation matey.
> 
> Some good advice above.
> 
> For my happeth' I'll suggest getting some Coffee Compass Brighton Lanes. It is the most tolerant coffee I've ever used. It doesn't punish bad distribution and has a very wide grind window too. Might get you a couple of drinks you don't want to sink. You can rebuild from there.


I'd second that advie on Brighton lanes


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

CamV6 said:


> I'd second that advie on Brighton lanes


I'll third it. As a professional coffee mangler it is the most forgiving coffee I have used. I managed to pull a 80 second extraction once after messing with the grinder and it was still drinkable!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The coffee is probably the most stable variable here .


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

mrsimba said:


> Thats it from now on I'm not making (or attempting to make...) another espresso shot at home!
> 
> Everytime I turn on the machine, let it warm up, and then start the dialing in before I know it about 5 shots are in the bin & its still no where nearer where it should be!
> 
> ...


You've got the shanks mate... Stress, overthinking, vicious circle. If the cafetière is looking attractive, you aren't at home with your new kit yet. To get past the shanks in any form, I have to take the pressure off, stop trying. So at the risk of flying in the face of advice from people with much more experience with your kit, this is what I would do:

Go to Costco, buy 2 kilos of shite beans for £12. Come home, put the stopwatch and scales in the cupboard for now. Fill your hopper with something you are never going to drink - clearing the chute after every dose, set it to produce something that feels like fine salt between your fingers.

Dose the basket by eye, tamp as you normally would, if you are getting a mouse tail, you are within a hair of it, carry on playing, bin all the shots, get into a rhythm, you are not wasting coffee, you are investing 12 quid in getting to know kit you spent loads on.

Don't get the precision tools out until you have used at least a kilo of the beans, (personally I would leave them in the cupboard until I absolutely needed more accuracy ie when I was getting consistent shots, but couldn't refine them any further by eye)

When you've finished for the day, drink a double of the stale robusta, your sink shots will taste like nectar in comparison! (Seriously, it will remind you of how far you have come, not how far you have to go before the WBC)

My machine is on a time-switch, The group and handle is warm by the time I swing my legs out of bed, pull my first double before I get in the shower, the dog gets an ounce or 2 of warm milk with his breakfast... At 6:30 on a winter morning, they are all God-shots


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> The coffee is probably the most stable variable here .


So Gary, do you think the grinder is the weakest link?

In that you need to purge grinds after adjusting (and this is causing the issue?

Rather than basket, technique or machine?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Id rule out the machine.

Coffee isn't the issue unless it's too fresh or super old.

VST baskets do not produce inconsistencies. Pretty much standard now in the shops we train.

I didn't get on with grinder , very random results . It was all over the place compared to what I'm used to.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Cheers Gary.

MrSimba, you're lucky to have a good Independent over the road from you. Where abouts in Brum are you?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Sutton Coldfield









http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24774-Under-Pressure-Espresso-Sutton-Coldfield


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Underpressure make great coffee, I reckon I'd have given up ages ago if I lived over the road from a decent shop









Seriously though I've had many days where I've felt exactly the same as you. The next day I come downstairs and go right back to basics and I usually manage to get back on the horse. It's a tough one for sure.

Have you tried wdt? If the distribution is crappy then that could help. VSTs can be funny with inconsistemcies but worth the effort in my opinion.

Other thoughts

Do you flush?

What water are you using?

How much coffee do you purge in between grind adjustments?

What's the boiler offset on your pid set to?


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Even understanding how much coffee to have in the pf.


This one is a biggie imho, some (most?) machines like a certain level of coffee in the PF. Pack em too high and you get disasters, pack em too low and you struggle as well, also some baskets work better with certain groups as well, but of course to know this you need to know your machine pretty well or have to do a lot of testing (which imho is simply time consuming and quite often hard, especially if your taste buds are shot after two espressos). I'd still do a hard comparison between espresso and brewed and why you want which, most people go for espresso because a) they like very short shots (ie. not brewed) b) they like milk drinks for which espresso is most often the base. If you tick none of those boxes, you might as well save yourself the hassle, time and monies (unless of course you want something like an EK43) and go with brewed.

T.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Spencer makes a good point and one that leads me to consider that actually it's a lot easier to balls it up than get it right.

I think it fair to say we all (or at least many of us) struggled to begin with. I was making aweful coffee and thinking it was good for many years before I came on here and realised the sad truth!

You have on one hand the benefit of knowing what you are doing isn't right, but on the other hand you are swamped with a plethora of variables and are struggling to put them together.

At the risk of coining a terrible cliche it is rather like riding a bike. You will wobble and fall off but eventually it will start to come together. Don't expect or even aim for perfection straight off. It's ok to make not so good coffee, its not a sin. A teaspoon or two of sugar to make it more palatable isn't such a bad thing as you learn

I for one struggled badly with tamping for a long time and it was causing me such inconsistency and I had to use a calibrated or dynametric tamper for a long time (the equivalent of using stabilisers on a bike to extend my cliche further)

Even now I and I'm sure many others have our off days - and it usually comes when trying to impress someone and thus trying too hard!

The more you try and the more worked up you get the harder it is. I'm trying to master latte art these days. It seems the harder I try the worse it gets. If I relax and take it easy and stay basic the better it is. Give yourself permission to get it wrong. It's ok. We learn from mistakes.

I guess what we are all saying is, we feel your pain, we've all been there, but please please just don't give up.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> The coffee is probably the most stable variable here .


Yup. Sounds like it's the grinder from your hands on experience.

Only thinking that Brighton Lanes will likely produce something drinkable even if the grinder is little better than two grindstones in a windmill. At least MrSimba will get a drink until the new grinder arrives.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Only if he likes Brighton Lanes


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Only if he likes Brighton Lanes


 yup. I'm not advancing it as excellence in the cup either, just very easy to do business with. Unlike some of your stuff which takes a little more discipline but yields a bigger reward  as I'm finding out right now.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

didn't read whole post


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

mrsimba - can really sense your frustration here !



oursus said:


> Go to Costco, buy 2 kilos of shite beans for £12. Come home, put the stopwatch and scales in the cupboard for now. Fill your hopper with something you are never going to drink - clearing the chute after every dose, set it to produce something that feels like fine salt between your fingers.
> 
> Dose the basket by eye, tamp as you normally would, if you are getting a mouse tail, you are within a hair of it, carry on playing, bin all the shots, get into a rhythm, you are not wasting coffee, you are investing 12 quid in getting to know kit you spent loads on.


When I first bought my espresso machine and grinder I had a couple of bags of Costco beans that I'd been using in a moka-pot. I tried using them in my espresso machine and no matter what I did I couldn't get anything that worked. Dribbles, zero crema, gushing out, all sorts of mess. I went through the lot and was beginning to panic that I'd bought a grinder/machine that was impossible to use until I loaded the grinder with my first bag of freshly roasted beans (from Coffee-Compass) and straight away the coffee looked (and behaved!) like I knew it should *phew*

I always knew that old beans weren't to be used but I was surprised just how difficult these Costco beans were to use so I was surprised to see them being recommended here as something to practice on?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

calc said:


> I was surprised to see them being recommended here as something to practice on?


You'll never cease to be surprised at some of the recommendations on here


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

All take a deep breath . There is a mechanical problem here preventing repeatable results . Simon has a palate he enjoys tasty well made coffee in a shop that works with lighter/medium roasts , not supermarket drivel or charcoal. He has the skill to produce tasty drinks , I've seen it and tasted it.

Wait till the new grinder arrives and watch the turn around ; )


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

All roasts & beans need dialling in, changing beans isn't solving the problem it's just a new problem


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

calc said:


> mrsimba - can really sense your frustration here !
> 
> When I first bought my espresso machine and grinder I had a couple of bags of Costco beans that I'd been using in a moka-pot. I tried using them in my espresso machine and no matter what I did I couldn't get anything that worked. Dribbles, zero crema, gushing out, all sorts of mess. I went through the lot and was beginning to panic that I'd bought a grinder/machine that was impossible to use until I loaded the grinder with my first bag of freshly roasted beans (from Coffee-Compass) and straight away the coffee looked (and behaved!) like I knew it should *phew*
> 
> I always knew that old beans weren't to be used but I was surprised just how difficult these Costco beans were to use so I was surprised to see them being recommended here as something to practice on?





calc said:


> mrsimba - can really sense your frustration here !
> 
> When I first bought my espresso machine and grinder I had a couple of bags of Costco beans that I'd been using in a moka-pot. I tried using them in my espresso machine and no matter what I did I couldn't get anything that worked. Dribbles, zero crema, gushing out, all sorts of mess. I went through the lot and was beginning to panic that I'd bought a grinder/machine that was impossible to use until I loaded the grinder with my first bag of freshly roasted beans (from Coffee-Compass) and straight away the coffee looked (and behaved!) like I knew it should *phew*
> 
> I always knew that old beans weren't to be used but I was surprised just how difficult these Costco beans were to use so I was surprised to see them being recommended here as something to practice on?


Like I said "at the risk of flying in the face..."

Costco do a few beans (at least 3 in every store I have personally been in), have to confess, I was probably thinking of the Lavazza Qualita Rosso at that price...(they were 5-6 quid a kilo last time I bought some, but that was a few years ago now) not exactly a bean of choice, but also never had a problem pulling a shot, on something so mass produced, it tends to be uniform. I would have suggested country range or whiteheads, - also not to my taste, but tends to be very cheap & again, never had an issue with pulling a shot, as long as it hasn't been sitting open in a cupboard for weeks on end.

On the assumption that all his Kit was ok,I reckoned Mr Simba probably just needed to get some practice in & not be stressed by every shot that was going sinkways... whatever he had been doing up til now, obviously wasn't working, so practice on a homogenous volume, at a price point that wasn't going to stress him (and that he wasn't going to blow his palate out tasting)

On the assumption that all his kit was ok...

With a bit of luck Mr Simba, you should feel like the weight of the world is off your shoulders, when your new grinder arrives! I''m not sure how your machine would take to being on a timeswitch (I'm sure someone could help you there) but I would find having to wait for a machine to warm up in the AM, would definitely increase my "investment" in the process, before touching an implement! (& make me much more likely to start chucking portafilters up the garden, should things not work out) as it is, my first involvement with coffee is warming my hands on the machine in the morning - so I already have a smile on my face!


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