# Sage remote turn on



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

One thing I miss about a conventional coffee machine, is the ability to sit in my armchair and flick the Wemo on. Is there any clever boffin can suggest a way of doing this with a Sage DB? I do not hold much belief that it can be done, easily anyway but I live in hope!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> One thing I miss about a conventional coffee machine, is the ability to sit in my armchair and flick the Wemo on. Is there any clever boffin can suggest a way of doing this with a Sage DB? I do not hold much belief that it can be done, easily anyway but I live in hope!


One of these ugly gadgets might work. Sure there's a more aesthetically pleasing alternative though.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

If anyone can think of a way, @joey24dirt can


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> If anyone can think of a way, @joey24dirt can


You would have to covert the push on switch to something that would stay on. It could be done but would be fiddly and possibly have to drill the machine  I wonder if that would override the auto off function.

Simple test would be to hold the on button down for a period longer than the timed shutdown. I'll let someone else try that though haha


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> One of these ugly gadgets might work. Sure there's a more aesthetically pleasing alternative though.


interesting!......but seems to be under developed currently


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> interesting!......but seems to be under developed currently


That's odd. It was saying 1 left in stock for me. There's a 2nd generation one that's showing as instock too.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> That's odd. It was saying 1 left in stock for me. There's a 2nd generation one that's showing as instock too.


I just rad the feedback left wroth 1 and 2 stars and they all said the same thing.....the software was poor but I will have another closer look!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

joey24dirt said:


> You would have to covert the push on switch to something that would stay on. It could be done but would be fiddly and possibly have to drill the machine  I wonder if that would override the auto off function.
> 
> Simple test would be to hold the on button down for a period longer than the timed shutdown. I'll let someone else try that though haha


Does such a thing as a momentary 240v relay exist? So you could hook it up to the mains and then the switch to turn it on.


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## kdr152 (Dec 27, 2017)

Would be great. Override the switch in order that the machine is on constantly; WiFi plug and hey presto - hey Siri, turn the coffee machine on. Think I mentioned this in a post a while ago asking if anyone could override.

Asked around some of the engineers in the lab at work and will see if anyone ever came up with an idea next week.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

All this to bypass a 10 minute warm up Dave?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am just sitting and watching! Others are coming up with ideas!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Dylan said:


> Does such a thing as a momentary 240v relay exist? So you could hook it up to the mains and then the switch to turn it on.


I would have to ask google lol. I've just realised this post is for a DB and not DTP. Do they have the same start up button and auto shut down?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I am just sitting and watching! Others are coming up with ideas!


Ha ha good ideas they are too


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## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I would have to ask google lol. I've just realised this post is for a DB and not DTP. Do they have the same start up button and auto shut down?


looks like it. one of the cheeky buggery things that wont turn on unless its pressed. ie cannot be turned on just by lighting up the socket


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

craigsalisbury said:


> looks like it. one of the cheeky buggery things that wont turn on unless its pressed. ie cannot be turned on just by lighting up the socket


You could mimic it being on permanently though by holding that button in and see what it does. Might fry the boards though lol


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## burmanm (Dec 14, 2017)

kdr152 said:


> Would be great. Override the switch in order that the machine is on constantly; WiFi plug and hey presto - hey Siri, turn the coffee machine on. Think I mentioned this in a post a while ago asking if anyone could override.
> 
> Asked around some of the engineers in the lab at work and will see if anyone ever came up with an idea next week.


You can probably do this with a bit of soldering and using a programmable relay such as Sonoff (I didn't check the electronic diagram of Sage, but I assume this should be enough). Of course the Chinese could then start your machine remotely, but if that's acceptable.. (just kidding, most people reflash their Sonoff equiptment to prevent cloud access).

Or then just program Sage to start automatically at certain time - no need to lift the cellphone, it's heavy.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You'll have to take it apart but something like this would do it

http://www.audon.co.uk/wifi_daq/XW-210-I.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr-fZko392AIV7bztCh1s8gTEEAAYASAAEgI63fD_BwE

There are probably cheaper and simpler alternatives. I found it by searching wifi relay. Some probably can come with a phone application.








Or take up arduino as a hobby. That could probably do it reliably for under £10 and allow the control of more switches. The usual problem then is an application to do the hand held end on a phone but that could be another arduino with a touch screen.

Want a touch espresso machine - arduino. Want PID - arduino but might need 2 to do that and provide controls as well.

In many areas what are sometimes called $1 microcontollers are used for all sorts of things. Costs actually for simple tasks can be well under $1. It's made a saying popular in what could be called the trade. "It's only software". In real terms doesn't cost much to write it and total costs can be lower than other approaches. It all depends on what the thing has to do. Often tasks that are common to many areas where they are used can be found already written and fully developed. For free too.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have given up on this idea now and am resigned to just having to sit and twiddle my thumbs for the 3.30 seconds it takes to heat up, followed by drawing a little water through the group. Thanks all for your input


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I heard it's 3.2 - is yours faulty David?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

kennyboy993 said:


> I heard it's 3.2 - is yours faulty David?


Was a bit colder this morning.....


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

@dfk41

Just how long does the DB take to heat up including the grouphead? That getting much too hot to touch so the touch needs to be rather brief. In the past I have seen various figures even needing the use of the built in switch on timer that I think it has.

The BE and I assume the DTP get some metal bits hot very quickly as the thermoblock is mounted directly onto the shower head and that is metal. Heat transfer to the shower screen which uses very little metal isn't effective nor is any transferred to the portafilter really but flushing can fix both especially through an empty pressurised basket. That just takes as long as it takes to run a shot.








Bean dependent but I sometimes use my wife's shot to preheat but have the impression that it's not as effective as an empty pressurised basket. Probably as that remains full of hot water after the shot has been pulled. It takes 3 or more shots with coffee in to get to roughly the same temperature.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, about 3 1/2 minutes for the pid display to hit 93. If you feel the group at that point, it is warm but not hot. I run 30 seconds of water through at which point it is hotter. It will never reach the temp that a traditional machine does because it is not classed as a prosumer machine. this means under EE law it has to turn off after 20 minutes. Now, this has got me wondering how important the group being too hot too touch actually is in the shot making process. i understand repeatability and stability but these machines are not meant to be left on. The shots I have pulled do not seem to be any the worse for the group being touchable....anyone else like to chip in?



ajohn said:


> @dfk41
> 
> Just how long does the DB take to heat up including the grouphead? That getting much too hot to touch so the touch needs to be rather brief. In the past I have seen various figures even needing the use of the built in switch on timer that I think it has.
> 
> ...


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Exactly - it's thermal stability is not determined by a big hunk of brass at brew or greater temp..... it's got a specifically heated element inside the group in the water path - making exterior group head temp largely irrelevant?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I started preheating with a pressurised basket not long after running 3 shots on the trot. Something I do fairly regularly. I decided to taste each one. They were different so started flushing through an ordinary basket and later switched to the pressurised. What I found when I used that was that the portafilter was notionally as hot as it gets on my Piccino in a fraction of the time that takes. It's steam boiler heats up in 3 mins. The brew is probably quicker as temp is lower and it's insulated. On the other hand the boiler is directly mounted onto the grouphead so heat loss there may slow it down. It seems to benefit with a flush as well.

The main difference in taste was strength. There may be nuances as well but pass on that aspect. So left with 2 choices - keep it cool / warm all of the time or get it as hot as it can get.

The area around the grouphead on a BE gets warm when shots are pulled as well. It sounds like the DB is similar. The shower head as they call it is metal and is the part that things are bolted to. On the BE the thermoblock is mounted directly on it. It looks like the DB uses something similar with a heater in it as the boiler is remote. On the BE the portafilter doesn't get hot because it's supported by plastic so there is next to no heat transfer. None gets in from the top due to the seal. There is just a metal trim around the plastic. Maybe the DB uses the same arrangement. It's easy to tell via touch as metal and plastic have an entirely different feel to them. It probably is plastic otherwise the heater would heat that up as well. Initially I thought that the BE was all plastic. Then I touched the shower head when the shower screen was off - ouch.








Maybe I have found people a good use for their pressurised baskets. It doesn't take long to do. I wanted to try that on my Piccino but made a mistake and bought a Gaggia pressurised basket. The little hole is directly over the portafilter outlet and they need a little plastic bit to intercept the high pressure jet it to stop it shooting all over the place. Sage being cute offset the hole so I should have bought one of theirs as it probably would fit.

John

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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I think [email protected] cracked it DFK - to save you time - just set something similar to this up with the start close to your chair and the end when it runs down the blue "slide" it drops onto the Sage?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jlarkin said:


> I think [email protected] cracked it DFK - to save you time - just set something similar to this up with the start close to your chair and the end when it runs down the blue "slide" it drops onto the Sage?


That would work once but can you imagine what my man servant would say when I ask him to re set it?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Maybe you should roast coffee instead






John

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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

With reference to adding brass to a sage machine, I've made this for my DTP....










Basically just a shower screen replacement made out of brass, and to incorporate the IMS screen.

I too just run around 30s of hot water into a cup before brewing, I definitely feel like the brass is helping keep the drink slightly hotter.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Dave have you bought another Sage DB....again?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Dave have you bought another Sage DB....again?


Yep, he says through gritted teeth.....it was the most appropriate thing for my current circumstances.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Yep, he says through gritted teeth.....it was the most appropriate thing for my current circumstances.


LOL welcome to the club


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> Exactly - it's thermal stability is not determined by a big hunk of brass at brew or greater temp..... it's got a specifically heated element inside the group in the water path - making exterior group head temp largely irrelevant?


I concur with this, it's up to temp scarily quick. I generally let mine warm up for about five mins then do a 5 sec flush just to clear the screen. 30 sec flush is too long IMO.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> LOL welcome to the club


again!.......many thanks Clive.....I still secretly like to chop and change my gear, even though I promised myself I would settle don, but this time I am downsizing so it is justified


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Not so secretly....


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