# Bad Technique or Faulty Machine?



## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi,

Having recently been on a home barista course I decided to take the plunge and bought myself a new Gaggia Baby Class machine.

I've been using it for a month or so now and have used different coffee (all pre-ground) but the espresso seems to come out quite watery and light in colour. Even the first drops of liquid that come out are quite light in colour not dark brown and thick. At first I thought I was just being paranoid but having recently used another machine which gave me more the results I was expecting (although the beans were freshly ground), I am thinking that something else is wrong.

I have experimented with different doses and differing times but always get the same results.

Is there something I'm missing or is the machine not performing properly?

Appreciate any help.

Thanks,

Adam


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

If you read back through your post the answer is very clear!!!! Get a grinder dude


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

No grinder = sad espresso


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

I did wonder but does it really make that much difference?

I couldn't justify getting both at the same time (the wife would have killed me).


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, it makes all the difference, pre ground is the work of the devil....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

adds58 said:


> I did wonder but does it really make that much difference?
> 
> I couldn't justify getting both at the same time (the wife would have killed me).


You cant ( ok lets say its very hard to ) make decent espresso without a grinder. Or more accuratley make comparable espresso to that made with a machine and a grinder

The Coffee isnt fresh or more importantly the correct particle size for the dose ( amount ) of coffee you are using...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To answer the next question

About £200 for a decent second hand mignon. £ 5 for scales . ££20 for a tamper. .. £ 10 new basket

So

Machine, grinder, fresh roasted coffee, tamper, scales, non pressurised basket , time , patience bit of reading and research


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

adds58 said:


> I did wonder but does it really make that much difference?


Yes. Yes it does.

Amazon.de has Graef grinders for 80 quid just now.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

What pre ground coffee are you using?

Is it the right grind for an espresso machine?

I sometimes use pre ground for espresso and it isnt how you describe at all.

Once I ran out and used pre ground that wasnt for espresso and it was how you describe it.


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

I have scales and a decent tamper. Do I need a new basket?

Im not sure I can justify £200 on a grinder at the moment. Are the Dualit Burr Coffee Grinders any good?


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm using the House Roast Espresso from UE Coffee Roasters (http://www.uecoffeeroasters.com/shop-wood-roasted-coffee-online/colombia-villa-esperanza-huila)

My friend recommended it and got it for me. He uses the same one and gets good espresso from it.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

adds58 said:


> Are the Dualit Burr Coffee Grinders any good?


No. False economy. Jeebsy has already pointed out an £80 grinder that is useable.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

adds58 said:


> I'm using the House Roast Espresso from UE Coffee Roasters (http://www.uecoffeeroasters.com/shop-wood-roasted-coffee-online/colombia-villa-esperanza-huila)
> 
> My friend recommended it and got it for me. He uses the same one and gets good espresso from it.


Just had a look,, cant see why you should get watery espresso using their preground,,, unless they ground it to the wrong setting, say for cafetiere


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

adds58 said:


> I have scales and a decent tamper. Do I need a new basket?
> 
> Im not sure I can justify £200 on a grinder at the moment. Are the Dualit Burr Coffee Grinders any good?


What tamper. .....

Dualitt = no


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Just had a look,, cant see why you should get watery espresso using their preground,,, unless they ground it to the wrong setting, say for cafetiere


Really


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Really


yes, really


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> What tamper. .....
> 
> Dualitt = no


This tamper - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HUASVZE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> yes, really


So its pre ground for what dose? What basket ? what pressure ? What extractions.......


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

adds58 said:


> This tamper - http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00HUASVZE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00


Its metal that's good ....58 mm would be a better fit .....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

adds58 said:


> I have scales and a decent tamper. Do I need a new basket?
> 
> Im not sure I can justify £200 on a grinder at the moment. Are the Dualit Burr Coffee Grinders any good?


http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_6/277-1810863-1870819?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=graef+kaffeem%C3%BChle&sprefix=graef+%2Caps%2C1225


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Preground has a set grind, you can work around it by dialling in by dose .

i.e. once the dose gives you a good flow rate you then note the dose and fix the yield based on that. Best start with 15g and work up in 0.5g increments until you get something useable.

The window of opportunity is small perhaps 3-4 days , the coffee stales very very quickly.

p.s BUY A GRINDER


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Sometimes you get lucky with Pre ground, but ultimately it is going stale a lot faster and you cannot really fine tune the espresso just get a semi decent grinder as mentioned above and you will be on the path to better espresso


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

The grind is how you control what comes out (along with dose)

You are pissing in the wind trying to make something drinkable with preground.

False economy, not getting a grinder


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

Ok. Thanks everyone for the advice.

I will work on the wife and try and convince her that I need a grinder which isn't easy as she's a tea drinker!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

adds58 said:


> Ok. Thanks everyone for the advice.
> 
> I will work on the wife and try and convince her that I need a grinder which isn't easy as she's a tea drinker!


Sneak it in under the radar - or try "it'll save a fortune in the long run on having to buy pre-ground"

It won't. But never mind.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

You need it.

You deserve it.

Go on.

Click 'buy'.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Save up and buy second hand (try the sales board here), you'll get so much more for your money.

Surely somebody has a Mignon going cheap??


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Just had a look,, cant see why you should get watery espresso using their preground,,, unless they ground it to the wrong setting, say for cafetiere


I can see a very obvious reason. It is because 'they' didn't grind it for the OPs machine, or indeed any specific machine.

Every time I stick a new bag of beans in the grinder I have to alter the grind. Every time

What does that tell you?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> I can see a very obvious reason. It is because 'they' didn't grind it for the OPs machine, or indeed any specific machine.
> 
> Every time I stick a new bag of beans in the grinder I have to alter the grind. Every time
> 
> What does that tell you?


The grinder fairy is messing with you in the night?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> Every time I stick a new bag of beans in the grinder I have to alter the grind. Every time
> 
> What does that tell you?


Coffee is a hard task master.


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## Guernsey (May 31, 2015)

The dualit will not grind fine enough for expresso, without modification, which is relatively difficult to do especially with the new model.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Ask for a refund on the home barista course and put it towards a grinder.


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

GCGlasgow said:


> Ask for a refund on the home barista course and put it towards a grinder.


To be fair, they told me to spend my money on a grinder first and use a cafetierre or stove top espresso maker until I could justify a proper espresso machine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

adds58 said:


> To be fair, they told me to spend my money on a grinder first and use a cafetierre or stove top espresso maker until I could justify a proper espresso machine.


That was good advice


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Espresso machine is practically useless without a grinder that can grind for espresso. That's why they advised you grinder first machine to follow. If it were hifi you have a record, some speakers, but no stylus. Probably.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm surprised that nobody has suggested buying a grinder yet


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

adds58 said:


> To be fair, they told me to spend my money on a grinder first and use a cafetierre or stove top espresso maker until I could justify a proper espresso machine.


It is pretty good advice.

My first grinder was a porlex hand grinder. You can use it for espresso but it's a swine to learn espresso making.....it's tough and you just end up spending loads of money getting through kilos of beans.

If I could do it again I'd go for a decent used grinder. Having said that Jeebsy's tip re German Amazon is pretty dam good.


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## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

In the interim can the op not achieve better results using a pressurised basket?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

No.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I have a Baratza Preciso returned from a customer who decided to buy big instead . They will go fine enough for espresso and do an amazing job for brewed/filter .

We sell them on the site for £300. You can have it for £210 delivered.

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/grinders/products/baratza-preciso


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Preciso is a great grinder! Mine is still going strong 4 years on!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> I have a Baratza Preciso returned from a customer who decided to buy big instead . They will go fine enough for espresso and do an amazing job for brewed/filter .
> 
> We sell them on the site for £300. You can have it for £210 delivered.
> 
> http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/grinders/products/baratza-preciso


How does it compare to something like a Mignon?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

urbanbumpkin said:


> How does it compare to something like a Mignon?


Very hard to compare as its not a dedicated espresso grinder ( you don't get quite the level of grind adjustment) but its way less clumpy!

The Mignon will suck as filter grind


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Very hard to compare as its not a dedicated espresso grinder ( you don't get quite the level of grind adjustment) but its way less clumpy!
> 
> The Mignon will suck as filter grind


Cheers Gary


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> I have a Baratza Preciso returned from a customer who decided to buy big instead . They will go fine enough for espresso and do an amazing job for brewed/filter .
> 
> We sell them on the site for £300. You can have it for £210 delivered.
> 
> http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/grinders/products/baratza-preciso


Hi Gary, any chance I could take you up on that offer if it's still available?

Joe


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jlarkin said:


> Hi Gary, any chance I could take you up on that offer if it's still available?
> 
> Joe


PM me your details buddy


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

@adds58 buy this:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24533-For-Sale-IberItal-Grinder


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> It is pretty good advice.


I don't doubt it. I was just too eager to start (trying) to make espresso!


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> I have a Baratza Preciso returned from a customer who decided to buy big instead . They will go fine enough for espresso and do an amazing job for brewed/filter .
> 
> We sell them on the site for £300. You can have it for £210 delivered.
> 
> http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/grinders/products/baratza-preciso


Thanks but I'll have to turn it down at this point. Not sure I can justify £200 at the moment and I haven't convinced the wife yet!


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## adds58 (Jun 9, 2015)

jonc said:


> @adds58 buy this:
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24533-For-Sale-IberItal-Grinder


Thanks for pointing this out but looks like I was too slow!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

No worries buddy.


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