# Cry for Help : (



## garydyke1

About three weeks ago I sent my Classic back for repair, it had issues with steam valve, dripping wand etc etc.

I got a call back from the repair place in Stoke last week advising that the machine was to be delivered back to me on the Friday. So I waited in all day, it didnt show. Yodel tracking system showed a variety of issues which neither they or the repair place could explain, I had to make 4 phone calls to get someone to assist me, they advised because it was bank holiday weekend they wouldnt try and deliver until the Tuesday. So I waited in all day , it didnt show. Same on Wednesday, it didnt show, no card left or a phone call or anything......... So 20, yes 20 phone calls & 4 hours on the phone to Yodel and the repair place, finally they promised it would arrive on Thursday. Check the comedy of errors :-

Delivered (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 2nd Jun 2011 17:06

Out for delivery (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 2nd Jun 2011 09:48

No One To Receive Card Left (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 1st Jun 2011 19:55

Passed to courier for delivery. (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 1st Jun 2011 18:52

Parcel returned to delivery depot (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 1st Jun 2011 18:08

Unable to gain timely access (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 1st Jun 2011 16:25

Out for delivery (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 1st Jun 2011 11:40

Consignee Cannot Be Reached (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 31st May 2011 21:00

Passed to courier for delivery. (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 31st May 2011 20:46

Out for delivery (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 31st May 2011 09:33

Passed to courier for delivery. (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 27th May 2011 11:59

Possible delay, incomplete address (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 27th May 2011 07:09

Re-routed to another courier (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 27th May 2011 00:51

Arrived At Depot (SANDWELL SERVICE CENTRE) 27th May 2011 00:47

Departed Depot (HAMS HALL) 26th May 2011 20:33

Arrived At Depot (HAMS HALL) 26th May 2011 20:32

Departed Depot (ASHTON SERVICE CENTRE) 26th May 2011 17:56

Parcel Picked Up (ASHTON SERVICE CENTRE) 26th May 2011 15:36

Then yesterday evening the machine was delivered back,( horrah I thought)....until I opened the box. The machine was smashed

View attachment 573


I have lodged a complaint with the repair place and am awaiting a call back again! Im almost past caring and am tempted to cut my losses and just buy another machine and put this down to experience......Possibly the worst set events I have had to endure with a product I have purchased.

Anyone got any advice!?


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## Glenn

I'd be expecting full and immediate compensation for a new machine from Yodel

Their insurance should cover it.


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## MonkeyHarris

Glenn's right. If you claim for loss of earnings and mental torture you might be able to swing a Duetto out them


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## AndyL

Oh dude, how frustrating. Well this will be a customer service test for sure.


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## garydyke1

Tried Yodel directly, no luck they wont talk to me as I didnt pay them for the delivery.

Have emailed NESN with pictures, proof of purchase yadda yadda.

If I dont get any luck then I might try contacting Phillips.

Now its a waiting game : (


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## BanishInstant

It sounds like you have been really unlucky. Hope you can still enjoy a coffee using your extensive brewing collection.


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## Andy Blyth

I'm sorry to hear of your experience. This seems to be a common thing for Yodel. They are the same company as Home Delivery Network, who also get an appalling write up from many of their customers. It would appear that you are not alone in receiving terrible service from this courier company. BBC Watchdog done a programme about them not so long ago. Looks like not much has changed.

That said, many of the large retailers still insist on using them to transport goods. Amazon, Argos............. I don't for the life of me understand why. It is these companies who should stand up against service like this and force them to change or go out of business.

Just for info, the law says that your contract is with Phillips and that is who you should take up your compensation claim with. It is up to Phillips to take the matter up with Yodel should they decide to do so. Phillips are responsible for your machine until it arrives at your door.

Good luck getting this horrible situation resolved satisfactorily. Let us know how you get on.


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## pendragoncs

Sorry to hear about your bad luck Gary, they sure made a right mess of your machine. Hopefully Phillips/gaggia will step up and fix or offer a new machine.

Fingers crossed.


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## sandykt

Gary, this is terrible. I hope things turn out good for you.


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## 20Eyes

Horrendous, and I really feel for you, but please do ensure that you hold the company who sent the machine back to you responsible for this mess. Personally, I would accept nothing less than a brand new replacement machine. Even if they cobble your one back together, by the looks of it I wouldn't trust it to operate correctly, it's clearly been dropped/kicked around (more than once).

These companies will only ever learn to use decent courier companies if incidents such as this are highlighted to them and they're forced to do the correct (and only legal) thing and replace your destroyed property.


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## garydyke1

Thanks you all for your words of support . Im still waiting for a response from NESN.

Agreed I dont want the damaged machine, even if fixed and cleared for use Ill never trust it again.

Shall keep you all posted.


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## garydyke1

Quick update. New packaging is being sent to me today. I need to place the machine inside and then contact Yodel again to arrange collection...then the whole repair process will begin again!

I have stated im not happy and shall demand a refund or new machine. I suspect many many more phone calls will be needed to resolve this.

If anyone has issue with their Gaggia in warranty I beg you for your own sake get it repaired at your own cost, it isnt worth the months of hastle!


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## MikeHag

If you get no joy, maybe look into filing an online small claim with the courts. Google 'Money Claim Online'. Although it's all online, the actual legal claim goes through Nottingham County Court.

Bad news, Gary. I hope you can get it resolved quickly.


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## garydyke1

Well after being with my machine for what feels like a decade, Philips are finally doing the decent thing and sending me a refund as a cheque through the post! I have also asked for a gesture of goodwill / compensation for the many many hours of chasing this, phone calls, emails, waiting at home etc etc.

So what now....buy a Gaggia Classic again, OPV it, PID it....or.....find the extra 800-odd quid and go for the Expobar .....?


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## MikeHag

I'd love to say go for the upgrade but not sure it's necessary to spend a lot when the Classic can do such a good job. I'd say it comes down to whether you think the shortfalls of the Classic are a pain. I'd stick with it versus £800 more, personally. But if I was regularly making three or four drinks at the same time I'd upgrade.

With so many interesting aspects to coffee, no need to spend it all at once. You could spend some of that money on a roaster, for example.


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## garydyke1

another update. Philips gave me a 50 quid voucher to use on their online webshop, so long as I spend 50 quid. Better than a kick in the teeth.

To be honest Mike home-roasting doesnt interest me so much. Roasters like Hasbean, drop Coffee etc do such a great job with new coffees coming and going at such a rate. I just want a tool now to get the very best out of each bean, consistantly, reliably with some level of adjustablity (non of which the Classic offered me, although ill never know IF it ever worked properly!).

I think the Expobar fits that brief very well. No surfing required, no worries about pressure, great milk every time. Ive heard it pulls shots just as well as an S1 Mini Vivaldi & It looks pretty darn special, albiet not exactly subtle!.

Yes its pricey, but as my girlfriend said only today ''if you buy the same mcahine again you will crave an upgrade in 6 months time & when something else goes wrong and you have to go through this hell again, buy something to last 3/4 years & something that leaves no cravings for anything better''

Its her rationale which makes me want the Mazzer mini E along with it hehe : )


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## AndyL

I like your girlfriend, she seems extremely reasonable and logical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vintagecigarman

garydyke1 said:


> Its her rationale which makes me want the Mazzer mini E along with it hehe : )


...mmm. I own a Mini-e and I'd urge a little bit of caution - particularly if you are changing the beans on a regular basis. The timer needs a screwdriver to adjust it, and of course, once you adjust the coarseness of the grind, you need to adjust the timer again to throw the same dose. As a result I now dose a weighed quantity of beans direct into the throat and run until it is exhausted. The outcome is that I've spent a lot of money on an electronic timer that I don't use. My next step if an Anfim Super Caimano - but a roaster upgrade has got to come first!


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## garydyke1

Currently with my MC2 I only place each dose of beans into the hopper and run till empty anyway, never used the timer for set doses, other than to roughly get it full after 2 button presses....

With the mazzer I would probably just press manual until porta filled to desired level or run till desired dose expelled. It was a toss up between that and the Mazzer Super Jolly and smaller hopper (ive seen it the same price as the Mazzer Mini non-E with the smaller burr set)


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## vintagecigarman

That's exactly the issue that I have about the Mini-e - you end up paying a fortune for electronics that you don't use! Time over again, I'd probably go for the SJ.

I now have real doubts about doserless grinders. The fluffiness of grinds dispensed from a good doser far out weighs the inconvenience of having to clean out the doser.


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## chimpsinties

On the postage front. I don't know if you saw my other posts. I had terrible trouble with Royal mail. The Gaggia Classic I bought from EBay got lost in the postal system for a week after being sent 1st class packet at the whopping cost of £18.50. No tracking, no insurance.

I got my MyHermes to pick the next one I bought up at the guys office and deliver it to me with a fully insured (£250) and signed for service for the princely sum of £10. I've used them before a few times and they've always been really good.


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## vintagecigarman

I know it's off-topic - but there's also a thumbs-up from me on MyHermes. I've used them a lot and their service has always been impeccable. Only issue is that their maximum insurance level is £250, and max weight 15kg - that rules out a lot of coffee equipment!


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## PaulN

Sorry Gary, i sent the info about the classic pressure gauge not having seen your classic was a write off? Last time i looked it was being dleivered.

PaulN


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## garydyke1

Paul - thats ok mate. You never know I might become sensible and go Gaggia again so might need to borrow it at some stage in future!

vintagecigarman - The debates over doserless versus doser are well documented and there nothing conclusive either way, I guess it comes down to choice .

Is the Mini-E really that clumpy? I assumed from what ive read and seen on youtube etc that it is one of the neatest, consistant grinders (without spending a whole heap more). My MC2 is clump city!


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## vintagecigarman

garydyke1 said:


> Is the Mini-E really that clumpy?


In a word - yes. It actually depends on the bean to some extent - but it certainly isn't clump free, and this is one of the main criticisms that you'll see levelled against it. It does dispense very neatly, though, and it's great to be able to leave the portafilter in the support and do other things whilst it grinds. It's also easy to strip and clean (except for the dosing funnel and the grind pathway into it, which is a real pain). It's only when you actually use one that you'll be able to determine if it's OK for you. I did loads of research - even talking to some baristas using it when I was in the Veneto last year. Don't get me wrong - in many ways it's a great grinder, and will obviously last a lifetime - but mine certainly won't be spending a lifetime with me!


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## pendragoncs

garydyke1 said:


> Paul - thats ok mate. You never know I might become sensible and go Gaggia again so might need to borrow it at some stage in future!


Seems a pity to dismiss the Classic because of a dodgy courier and some crap CS as I think the consensus is it's a great machine.

I know for a lot more money you will get an all singing and dancing machine but to me part of the appeal was that to get great shots from a classic involves the user more so allowing me to hopefully gain a better understanding of the process and variables and it's not as if there's no work around to the common shot issues.

Would a good comp be to get a good second hand machine? That way you can mod to your hearts content do some of your own maintenance and not have to deal with Phillips CS?


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## garydyke1

I may have just spent £1499.

I think im in shock........


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## lookseehear

So what did you go for


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## ChiarasDad

No fair keeping us in suspense!


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## MikeHag

Yoweeeeeeeeee!! No escaping doing a video now


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## 20Eyes

garydyke1 said:


> I may have just spent £1499.
> 
> I think im in shock........


"And in breaking news, the UK economy saw an unexpected increase in retail activity toward the end of the second quarter...."

Good lad! Will be keeping an eye out to see what you've gone for.


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## garydyke1

I went for the Expobar & Mini E combo. 1499 for the two isnt bad I guess....... I got 2kg of beans for free too.

DEEP BREATH


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## vintagecigarman

Great combo there Gary. Will it arrive tomorrow? Bet you can't wait after being without a machine for so long.

Gary: you said in an earlier post that you's found SJ's for about the same price as a non-e Mini. Would you mind giving me the heads up where you found the best price, please?


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## garydyke1

http://www.a1coffee.co.uk/gbu0-catshow/grinders.html

Try here mate


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## garydyke1

The Mazzer is soooo quiet! An amazing piece of kit...feels like it would last forever, very solid. So neat at dispensing into the portafilter. not played with the dosing buttons too much, just getting a feel for the grind. I cant tell you the grind quality is leagues ahead of my MC2...very uniform. Clumping appears minimal and limited to darker roasted beans. I think we are going to get on well : )

As for the Expobar. Its huge and heavy. I need to play with the temperature as its currently on 96c, I fell a tad hot. I havent made a great shot yet but then again im using rubbish beans just to get a feel and 'season the machine'....., the e61 allows a lot less coffee than the gaggia, 14-15g rather than 17-18-19. First attempt at steaming milk - leagues ahead of the gaggia, lovely stuff.

Another 3-4 hours I recon Ill have some suberb shots coming out.


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## Glenn

Don't forget to update your signature with your new purchases









Enjoy an espresso-filled evening


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## funinacup

I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of your new setup









Congratulations on the new purchase, awesome feeling!


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## lookseehear

[No message]


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## vintagecigarman

garydyke1 said:


> the e61 allows a lot less coffee than the gaggia, 14-15g rather than 17-18-19.


Really glad to hear that your new kit has arrived and that you are so pleased with it. Best wishes for a long and happy relationship with a really great outfit!

I'm surprised by what you have to say about dosing though. I routinely dose my E-61 with 16g for a new bean, and adjust the dose/grind to amend the caramel/sugar flavour profile - though it's largely the dose rather than the grind - and I can comfortably go up to 18g when necessary, and this clears the shower plate. Are you grinding fine enough?


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## lookseehear

I guess you might also need a larger basket? I remember when I was thinking about getting the expobar that there's a video on youtube somewhere of someone making a triple shot with 21g - could be a different portafilter though I guess.


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## garydyke1

Woohoo, this morning Ive got it nailed, the grind that is.... Even without paying any attention to distribution or levelling this machine now refuses to make a bad shot, clumps dont seem to cause any channeling...just lovely mouse-tail & perfect dry puck every time...e61 FTW : ) ...even with the cheapo generic 'italian creme' beans. Must get me a naked filter. the PID temp does swing a fair bit say from 94 to 98 but this can all be programmed and tuned, long with the offset which is currently 9 deg.

Steaming milk takes only slightly longer than the 25-30 seconds for the shot, so start steaming, then start shot, finish shot, turn off steam...convenience to die for. My routine will be 1/2 the time it was before...no caked on burned milk on the wand either.

Im dizzy now , must stop ranting, and must resist opening my La Ilusion 2010-2011 which was roasted on 17th June. I think my tastebuds are going to get a shock, ie I didnt know what a great shot tasted like until this moment.

Question : is there any variance between e61 fittings? will any e61 naked portafilter fit?


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## lookseehear

Sounds amazing! Get some pics up to make us all even more jealous.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk


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## garydyke1

View attachment 578
View attachment 579


hopefully these come out ok


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## MikeHag

Beauty! I want one.


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## AndyL

that's awesome Gary, happy days

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## garydyke1

View attachment 580


Wish I video'd this . My third ever Flat white on the new machine. Yummy


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## MonkeyHarris

Blimey when I went on my hols last week you was in mourning at the state of your Gaggia Classic and I come back to see you've crushed this feeling of sadness with a monumental self indulgent treat.....GOOD WORK! U lucky git! I'm going to show this thread to my wife so she can see this kind of outlay is quite normal


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## garydyke1

Tell her if youre happy then shes happy : )

At first I wasnt sure if I had done the right thing - its a lot of cash to splash, the machine I had made my mind up on however I was in two minds about the grinder - clumping potential with doserless (Mini E) versus mess maintainance and size with the doser (SJ).

Machine wise - I dont regret it now. Less of my time is worrying if the temperature, or pressure, was right for the extraction & I can focus on how to tweek the recipe to get the very best out of each coffee with zero fuss. Steam on demand is just superb. I think the pleasure will be magnified even more once I get a naked filter. Id say 9 out of 10 shots are down right delicious (I was getting 5-6 out of 10 on the Gaggia) and I havent done any tweaking as such yet.

Grinder wise - I still dont know 100% if it was the right choice. VintageCigarman placed a seed of doubt in my mind which didnt fully recover. Particularly the clumping issue. The Mini E does clump, only at the very finest setting and only with darker or more oily roasts. Whether the clumping affects the extraction is yet to be seen (que Naked filter), but taste wise the shots are better than ever & nice mouse-tails look good to me. I never employed WDT before and I dont think clumping has driven it but I now appear to be completely obsessed with 100% 'perfection' ...whereas before I was obsessed with making a 'decent' drink!

At the end of the day I can absorb costs and batter the overtime at work for 2-3 months and the bank balance should sort itself out!

Go on your worth it : )


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## vintagecigarman

garydyke1 said:


> T
> 
> Grinder wise - I still dont know 100% if it was the right choice. VintageCigarman placed a seed of doubt in my mind which didnt fully recover. Particularly the clumping issue. The Mini E does clump, only at the very finest setting and only with darker or more oily roasts.


Sorry about that!

Like you say, the clumping is only really an issue with very dark roasts - and I tend to go for fairly light roasts in any case. But I certainly don't think it warrants the WDT!

It just seems to me that the actual cost of the grinder is an enigma. OK, it gets a larger burr-set than the standard Mini, but to my mind the removal of the doser (presumably quite an expensive component set to make) and it's substitution with a funnel and (what is pretty useless for me) cheap electronic time, just doesn't seem to warrant the increase in price. That said, it's an elegant piece of kit that looks at home in a domestic environment and will last a lifetime.

My grinder research still continues. Got the chance to try out the big Mahlkonig grind-on-demand machine the other day - and that seemed to clump even worse than the Mini-e - though it was with a very dark roast.


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## MonkeyHarris

You're right I am worth it. Sadly SWMBO doesn't agree and wants me to finish building the pond in the garden so it'll have to wait









On the clumping issue I wouldn't worry too much I get clumping with the K3 with some beans and none with others. Like you say usually darker oily ones. I've always used the WDT technique. I mainly do it for distribution but it quickly breaks down any clumps. Adds about 10 seconds to making a shot and virtually eradicates channeling. It's not for everyone but it works for me.


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## garydyke1

vintagecigarman said:


> Sorry about that!
> 
> Like you say, the clumping is only really an issue with very dark roasts - and I tend to go for fairly light roasts in any case. But I certainly don't think it warrants the WDT!
> 
> It just seems to me that the actual cost of the grinder is an enigma. OK, it gets a larger burr-set than the standard Mini, but to my mind the removal of the doser (presumably quite an expensive component set to make) and it's substitution with a funnel and (what is pretty useless for me) cheap electronic time, just doesn't seem to warrant the increase in price. That said, it's an elegant piece of kit that looks at home in a domestic environment and will last a lifetime.
> 
> My grinder research still continues. Got the chance to try out the big Mahlkonig grind-on-demand machine the other day - and that seemed to clump even worse than the Mini-e - though it was with a very dark roast.


The MC2 didnt clump in quite the the same way, maybe due to the burrs being conical not flat & the mini-e having a playdough being squeezes through a tube effect. . I might place a small conical sieve inside the funnel and see how that reacts. Whisking the grinds through the funnel then a level off & tamp is going to be quicker than WDT. Not going to get a more even puck density than that! Ill let you know.


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## garydyke1

MonkeyHarris said:


> You're right I am worth it. Sadly SWMBO doesn't agree and wants me to finish building the pond in the garden so it'll have to wait
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the clumping issue I wouldn't worry too much I get clumping with the K3 with some beans and none with others. Like you say usually darker oily ones. I've always used the WDT technique. I mainly do it for distribution but it quickly breaks down any clumps. Adds about 10 seconds to making a shot and virtually eradicates channeling. It's not for everyone but it works for me.


Tell her you cant drink pond water ; ) (unless you frequent Starbucks)

what tool do you use for WDT? Ive witnessed clumps on other peoples grinders (e.g Macap doserless) which even after serious WDT'ing were still there and prevented basket being levelled off without causing pot-holes on the surface!


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## MonkeyHarris

I used to use a bent paper clip but unless I get major clumping now I use a piece of guitar string which seems to work very well.


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## garydyke1

View attachment 581


made this today using extremely thin wire


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## MonkeyHarris

That should do the job. I think the thinner the better. Just whisk the grinds about in circular and figure of 8 motions until it looks well distributed (usually about 5-10 seconds) then level off as normal. When you get your naked PF try your normal technique and then WDT. I noticed an instant improvement i.e. no channeling if done correctly.


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## vintagecigarman

Interesting to hear about the effects of WDT.

I wonder if it's beyond the wit of man to build doserless grinder for around 500 that doesn't need it?

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## garydyke1

If the mini-e had a blade/turbine spinning in front of the grid, prior to the funnel then clumping would all but vanish. I seem to remember someone modding theirs with such a device but it required a secondary power supply, now if only I could find the details....

Ill stick to the sieve idea. It arrived today, but the mini-whisk hasnt yet : )


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## garydyke1

made a 'scottie tool' its awesome for levelling and dosing. my shots improved even more
View attachment 582


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## MonkeyHarris

Hahaha! very nice.. I saw the scottie tools a while back and thought that it was a nice idea until I saw the price. .. Over £100 for a few pieces of plastic.

Be careful Gary you appear to be striving for perfection now... this is a dodgy place to be. It will render everyone else's coffee other than your own inadequate


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