# Foolproof alternative to pourover wanted - a fruitier cup from a Clever Dripper?



## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

I'm enjoying experimenting with the V60 and Kalita Wave, but it's a frustrating business at times. I might have to save the practice for the weekends. Weekdays, at work, i want something a bit more foolproof.

I've got a small Clever Coffee Deeper and i haven't made any terrible cups with it yet. It's all fine, but none of the wow factor when it all clicks into place with a V60 pour. But is there a way to push the style of coffee with the CCD more towards the V60. By that i mean a lighter drink, almost tea-like, with a vibrant, crisp acidity. So far with the CCD, i can get a pleasant cup, with some pleasant generic acidity, but the individual fruit flavours i can pick out with the V60 go missing. So I'd like to boost the fruity acidity and minimise the caramelly notes.

I've tried more or less agitation but, aside from a stronger tasting cup, i haven't really managed to boost the crisp fruitiness. Going less than 3 minutes of immersion gave me unpleasant saltiness, rather than crisp acidity.

I've considered simple immersion brewing in a Cafetiere jug and then pouring the resulting brew through a V60 filter, to lighten the body. The results were similar to my previous efforts with the CCD.

I just want to be able to make a decent, 8/10, cup reliably without fuss. Any ideas?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Fill n'drain is pretty reliable.

Bloom coffee as normal then fill to target volume. Place over cup and drain. Use a finer grind than standard for your CCD


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tdfg7583 said:


> I've considered simple immersion brewing in a Cafetiere jug and then pouring the resulting brew through a V60 filter, to lighten the body. The results were similar to my previous efforts with the CCD.
> 
> I just want to be able to make a decent, 8/10, cup reliably without fuss. Any ideas?


For cafetiere I'd probably not try and secondary filter, best to not kick up silt to start with (James Hoffmann no plunge method, but with no break) &/or sift out the fines (with CCD immersions too) ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dexam-Flour-Sifter-Stainless-Steel/dp/B01EZBCPU2/ref=sr_1_25?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1492180571&sr=1-25&keywords=flour+sifter

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Flour-White-Round-Strainer/dp/B008LTY9RC/ref=sr_1_26?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1492180705&sr=1-26&keywords=flour+sifter

...before putting the grounds in the pot (takes 1-2 min & can be done whilst a kettle boils without increasing prep time).

3 min seems too short to get a high extraction as immersion, with a declining temperature. I'd be looking at more like ten times that.

But, if you have access to scales, a pouring kettle at work, I'd probably stick with the V60, for the same inputs within each method (time, coffee, water, grind) immersions aren't going to be more consistent & your cups will be cooler at serving.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Try a much longer steep 40 mins with a CCD but with no agitation.

Try water in first then add the grinds (gently pushing them under).

I've also tried just adding the grinds and just pouring water over, I don't think it makes a huge difference to me but see what you think.


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

Excellent, thanks all. It had certainly never occurred to me to steep for that long! I assumed I'd end up with something a long way from the light, acidic brew i was aiming for by extracting more, but I'll be happy to give it a go


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm really liking the syphon at the minute, nice clear coffee and a good taste.


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

Ah, syphon brewing looks really interesting. And just kinda cool aesthetically too! I've wanted to give that a try at some point. Good to know it can produce the sort of flavour I'm interested in. Probably too much of a spectacle for the office, but I'd fancy picking up a siphon to add to my weekend projects.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

I've tried a few long brews in the CCD recently. I've been pleasantly surprised how clean and sweet they came out. It's been handy as I can leave it while doing other things but at work I must be vigilant against the pesky students


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Elcee said:


> I've tried a few long brews in the CCD recently. I've been pleasantly surprised how clean and sweet they came out. It's been handy as I can leave it while doing other things but at work I must be vigilant against the pesky students


I do the same for work too. Not much faff, I just have to make it in advance and set a timer on my watch. Longer brews are much sweeter. I've got the larger CCD as I make coffee for my colleague too.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

urbanbum86917 said:


> I do the same for work too. Not much faff, I just have to make it in advance and set a timer on my watch. Longer brews are much sweeter. I've got the larger CCD as I make coffee for my colleague too.


Long steeps can be sweet. Short brews can also be very sweet and IME give a higher strike rate.

If there was a foolproof method for making coffee we'd all be using it.

Once you open a bag of coffee it's a moving target as it loses volatile components. You can do the exact same thing on successive days and always end up with something slightly different , sometimes better, sometimes worse. Some coffees seem to do better using different techniques. Keeps us all on our toes and scratching our heads....


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Different solution: You could try brewing with ashbeck water, that seems to add extra acidity that doesn't come through as much with other waters that I typically use.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Step21 said:


> Once you open a bag of coffee it's a moving target as it loses volatile components. You can do the exact same thing on successive days and always end up with something slightly different , sometimes better, sometimes worse. Some coffees seem to do better using different techniques. Keeps us all on our toes and scratching our heads....


Very true I'm afraid. I've done some belting brews, which I've repeated the same technique the following day and it's not quite the same. It's all in the hands of the coffee gods.....still chasing the rainbow though.


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

I've been using the kalita for a while now. But find myself using my first step into coffee, the aeropress, more and more. It's just so repeatable and you can keep every variable the same. The kalita can sometimes set my OCD off about pour times, agitation from the pour etc. So aeropress has been winning a lot lately


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Very true I'm afraid. I've done some belting brews, which I've repeated the same technique the following day and it's not quite the same. It's all in the hands of the coffee gods.....still chasing the rainbow though.


Sure important to remember we're brewing by the cup or two, there will be some natural variation even amongst brews with the same beans, but also across differing beans. "8/10" brews might be a good average to shoot for, but some will drop a little below & some above. As a minimum standard it's probably optimistic, coffees themselves will vary more than this. Hitting the same brew again & again might be elusive but hitting the same basic character/a coffee's USP (just sometimes a touch brighter/sweeter/drier) is realistic.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

James811 said:


> I've been using the kalita for a while now. But find myself using my first step into coffee, the aeropress, more and more. It's just so repeatable and you can keep every variable the same. The kalita can sometimes set my OCD off about pour times, agitation from the pour etc. So aeropress has been winning a lot lately


Kalita is drip, so you have to manage flow. I think that notion of holding immersion brews for a given time gives the impression of being more controllable (psychologically less fretting), but it's really not my experience that this relates to any more consistency in the cup.


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## tdfg7583 (Nov 16, 2016)

MWJB said:


> 3 min seems too short to get a high extraction as immersion, with a declining temperature. I'd be looking at more like ten times that.


With such a long immersion, would you stir (or gently agitate) periodically? Or just trust that the water would move through any clumped or settled grounds well enough on its own for even extraction over 30 minutes?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tdfg7583 said:


> With such a long immersion, would you stir (or gently agitate) periodically? Or just trust that the water would move through any clumped or settled grounds well enough on its own for even extraction over 30 minutes?


Don't stir immersions once the steep has started. Make sure the grounds are wet (no clumps or clods, but don't sink everything) at fill, within 20-30seconds. Once all is wet it'll sink of its own accord over the steep time.

Immersions tend to make for even extractions in terms of evenness of the liquid strength. In terms of evenness of the extraction of the dose, certainly adequate as long as you are fine enough overall.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm finding the syphon is a clean taste and has no sediment at all. There is a bit of clean-up afterwards though so not particularly good in an office. The V60/Chemex will be a better bet in this respect as it's just a case of dump the filter in the bin and rinse out the V60. I've found my AeroPress leaks a bit and can be messy as a result.

I've also got a Bodum filter thingy with the metal filter (although I put a filter paper in this as well). At least with the carafe style ones like this, you could have it sat on your desk and top up your mug etc.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Rhys said:


> I'm finding the syphon is a clean taste and has no sediment at all. There is a bit of clean-up afterwards though so not particularly good in an office. ....
> 
> .


Oh double damn....

Both now you, and my daughter tells me, Roasting Party used a siphon at LCF.

My first ever taste of 'real coffee' was from a Cona siphon using pre-ground 'Brasiian' Lyons coffee in a (green) tin with plastic lid when I was ....er back in the seventies (and as a child) at the end of Xmas dinner. Everyone has a starting point I guess. Never forgot the major up from instant as it was in those days.

So tonight, with a few birthday vouchers, bought into one of those Cona devices to try and relive the experience...justifying on the basis I don't anymore do a proper immersion style brew anymore...looking forward to see if the modern roaster can live up to Lyons 'Braslian'.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Syenitic said:


> Oh double damn....
> 
> Both now you, and my daughter tells me, Roasting Party used a siphon at LCF.
> 
> ...


Hi @Syenitic

Are a couple of useful links on an introduction thread here that may help with your Cona journey









p.s. I also had my first real coffee experience in the 70's as a child with a Cona, "operated" by my grandmother who got her coffee ground at a delicatessen within walking distance on the morning she used it on a huge red Hobart grinder. Used to love to go with her to smell it being ground and have been hooked since. When Sarah got my Cona for me a couple of Christmas's back the first brew brought memories flooding back.

John


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