# Steaming/frothing...one cup at a time? Or two in the same pitcher?



## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

As per the title. I just bought one of the 350ml etched jugs (the one with a scale on the side) as was recommended. No problem with the jug as such....but I steam 6ozs (180ml) in the jug per one large (12oz) cappo cup and find that it's right at the top of the jug by the end...almost spilling over the top. Hence no chance to swirl it round a bit. An alternative is to use, say, my 700ml jug (the one with no spout) and steam/froth two at the same time. That works OK but blokes here seem to agree it's better to do one at a time and, obviously enough, by doing two at a time it's necessary to have the prepared coffee in the two cups ready to pour....and one of them is starting to go cold as it's been there a while. Maybe that's of no matter? Certainly it's warmed up by the hot and frother milk, so perhaps that's not an issue?

Plan B might be to get the 600ml etched version...but that might also be too small...it stands to reason it will. Or get a 75cl Motta pitcher for around £21 from Cream Supplies...surely that woukld accommodate my 12ozs of milk and allow a bit of headroom?

Not exactly an earth shattering dilemma...but thoughts would be welcome please.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Easiest solution? A smaller cup.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What machine are you using ?


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

I'm guessing the smaller cup solution is tongue in cheek...I'd worked out that a smaller cup would solve the problem. Except I don't want to use smaller cup.

My machine is in my signature.


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## Tewdric (Apr 20, 2014)

No, really, use a smaller cup.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Not really. Since I've started using decent coffee I've switched to 6oz cups (and drink twice as many!)

Your signature doesn't show on Tapatalk


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

if its any help to you.

I make 2 8oz lattes at the same time.

I need a jug that can hold 18oz for that, and that starts of half filled (approx) with milk which allows enough room for expansion and for when the swirl gets going.

Any smaller than 18oz and the milk would go over the side for me


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Drink milkshakes instead ?

How much coffee is in the 12oz cup


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Drink milkshakes instead ?
> 
> How much coffee is in the 12oz cup


Don't be elitist now...


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Drink milkshakes instead ?
> 
> How much coffee is in the 12oz cup


12oz? ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Scotford said:


> Don't be elitist now...


Not being elitist being sizeist.

How many 12 oz cups do you serve a day btw .....


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

Tewdric said:


> No, really, use a smaller cup.


No, really, I don't want to use a smaller cup. If I'd wanted to use a smaller cup I'd have said so.

I thought my question was reasonable and straightforward... I'd said I want to use a large cup and fill up with stuff that I happen to enjoy. Not difficult. I wasn't rude or trying to be clever or amusing...it was a straightforward question. However, I shan't pursue the matter and will leave you gents to carry on doing whatever you were doing before I troubled you.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Anyway I'm in tapatalk so I still don't know what machine your using . If your gonna steam milk for two lots of drinks then I'd familiarise yourself with splitting milk technique .






Smaller boiler machines will as you know struggle to cope with larger amounts ...

I steam by the cup but it only takes 10-15 seconds to do 4 -5oz milk anyway .


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't think anyone is trying to have a go @DevonStan

The answer is to get a jug that you can fill to a capacity and frothiness that suits you. ..

If you want velvety silky milk you will be hampered by a too large jug.

If you want frothy cappuccino milk you should be able to do that in a massive huge ginormous jug pretty easily.

I still use my big mug for hot chocolate.

But baring in mind that costa use 4 shots for a cappuccino in those big mugs, you'll likely need at least a 21g basket to even make a dent in that volume of milk, and probably 2 x a 42g output.

It's worth trying a smaller cup "just to see"

I was equally sceptical but it allows the milk to bring out the unique flavours in the coffee, rather than it tasting of "coffee"


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

Thanks. I'll look at that as soon as I finished typing.

ECM Mechanika Profi from BB. Eureka Olympus High Speed 75


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Oh and I'm not a gent...


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to ask. The answer is pretty simple, smaller cup or bigger jug.

If you're asking about leaving the coffee while you steam the smaller jug twice then in a milk drink you're hardly going to notice the drop in temp of the coffee. You can mitigate it by making sure the cup is warm and leaving the shot on the cup warmer.

A 12oz drink is big. A latte is typically 1 part espresso to 5 parts milk. So a double shot would need 10oz milk with a small layer of foam. A Cappa is 1 part espresso, 1 part milk and 1part foam. Therefore a 12oz cup would need two double shots of espresso each. As you are steaming 6oz of milk then you are making an in between kind of drink. No issue with that if it's what you enjoy., but I'd suggest when you steam the milk then stretch it less and get a nice micro foam. Would make a decent 8oz drink (smaller cup) and would easily be doable in the jug you have.


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

OK. I'll say thanks for the replies and apologise if my question wasn't clearly worded and if it was an unnecessary question to ask in the first place...which is what seems to be the case.

Following acquisition of the new machine I've just about worked out that a 16 or 16.5 gram basketful of, fairly dark, strongish, beans that I've been using for the past six yrs just about gives me a strong enough base for a cappuccino in a cup that holds 11 or 12 ozs 300 ml (to the very top). I currently use 6 ozs (180ml) of milk which expands to the top of the new 350ml jug.

Because the 350ml jug only just accommodates the frothed milk I wondered if If should use, say, a 600 or 700ml jug and do two at once. I was asking what others, who might be in a similar situation might do. It seems my cup is bigger than most here use. Although it's a similar size to what they use in local places where I have a large cappo. The Costa medio (medium?) brims at 420ml (I bought two of them from a local Costa cafe but they are just a bit too big admittedly). The bigger Costa cup (the one with two handles) holds approximately three gallons...or so it seems.

But - there are points made above that I shall go a dwell upon. Thank you.

And I'm sorry about the gender generalisation, Missy. That was an error which I'll not make again.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

@DevonStan

Sometimes I sit on the sidelines and watch threads build and go seemingly off topic. It happens here and probably more so on computer forums. The gist seems to be:

How do I do or which is better ......?"

to which the reply is often presented in political fashion ie. no reply at all or sometimes it becomes:

"Why on earth would you want to do that?"

I have never really understood what it is that makes folks do this but it still happens.

Firstly, the guys here are good guys so don't take offence and then maybe pose the question in a different manner.

I have posted poor questions myself so now I try where possible to make it an either/or answer.

My view on your question is: make both coffees, steam milk for both in the larger jug, consider pouring with the second smaller jug having transferred just the right amount for each drink individually.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Missy said:


> Oh and I'm not a gent...


Well only at the weekend


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

Right you are, grumps...that's finalised it. Thanks. I'll stop pondering on getting the job done in the 350ml jug, nice as it is - and I can always do as you say and use it for the purpose you outlined.

Half the reason I got into this pickle was the fact that the etched (the ones with a scale) jugs are handy for me to pour exactly the right quantity of milk. And they come in 350 and 600 and 900 sizes. The 350 we've discussed, the 600 might be enough for my two drinks in one go and the 900 seems too big. And the other option I outlined was to get a Motta 750 which I know would comfortably take the two together without being too big nor too small but isn't etched hence I'd carry on using a Pyrex jug to measure the correct amount. Hardly a real problem, I admit.

I'm absolutely sure everyone else does it differently and can't see my whys and wherefors, and maybe my procedure will morph into what others do....give me time and we'll see where it goes 

Thanks.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

DevonStan said:


> And they come in 350 and 600 and 900 sizes. The 350 we've discussed, the 600 might be enough for my two drinks in one go and the 900 seems too big. And the other option I outlined was to get a Motta 750 which I know would comfortably take the two together without being too big nor too small but isn't etched hence I'd carry on using a Pyrex jug to measure the correct amount. Hardly a real problem, I admit.


What machine are you using? On a heavenly (and certainly the old classic with Silvia wand) I found a 600ml jug about the limit. Anything bigger and the steam wand won't reach the milk and allow me to tilt the jug properly. I would imagine that's the case for most domestic machines that don't have an extra long wand.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

ECM Mechanika Profi is in his sig so a 2.1L boiler with 1200w element


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

I've just ordered the Rhinowares 600ml etched, the Motta 75cl Europa (not etched) and three little plastic 250ml beakers: two of which to use (sitting on a weigh scale) for dispensing the coffee straight into from the grinder. So all angles will, for now at least, be covered insofar as I now have the 350ml Rhinowares etched, the incoming 600ml version of the same, plus the incoming 75cl Motta plus the 100cl Motta bought six yrs ago (that was always too big for man or beast) plus the spoutless anonymous 70cl stainless jug that I've used for the last six yrs. The oddly shaped Gaggia jug that came with the Gaggia Classic never saw action...a strange looking thing that has no spout and shaped like an exaggerated vase for use with roses or chrysanthemums.

I have no excuses now.

Thank to those who offered helpful advice, which I appreciate.

PS. As a final addendum.... I'm using semi skimmed filtered from the Co-op but am also alternating with a 50/50 mix of red skimmed and blue full fat. Only because I read here that the 50/50 is preferable to plain old green semi. Can't say I've seen a difference...except to say if I use ALL full fat blue, then there IS a marked improvement in creamy taste and probably in texture too. But not everyone wants that creamy taste...including the Mrs. !


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

grumpydaddy said:


> ECM Mechanika Profi is in his sig so a 2.1L boiler with 1200w element


Thanks, sig doesn't come up using Tapatalk


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Lol.

Don't forget to swirl your milk thrice in the direction of the nearest maiden, or rising moon, prior to commencement of steaming.

And are you planning on some sort of art display with your jugs? (It's usually me who gets asked that- nice to be the one asking for a change!)


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

In some circles it's frowned upon for maidens to display their jugs Missy! 

DevonStan, I also have come up against a similar set of circumstances. I like a double shot in an Acme cappuccino cup (200ml). The Hotmetalette likes her latte in the Acme latte cup (300ml). I've got a 600 and a 350 jug. I just use the big one for hers and use the smaller one for mine. So I make her latte in its entirety, serve it, then do mine. Ok it takes a bit longer but I'm occupied making it and she's drinking hers so it's all good! Hope that is of some help!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

1 % is easy to steam , taste wise can't comment though


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Don't listen to him (hotmetal) Missy.... If you want to display your jugs it is your prerogative to do so. !!!


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

grumpydaddy said:


> Don't listen to him (hotmetal) Missy.... If you want to display your jugs it is your prerogative to do so. !!!


He was talking about maidens.... I don't think I fit that category. I reckon im ok to display them.... However My jugs are quite uneven... And I have three... But I can take some pictures tomorrow if you like?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Apropos nothing in particular - Eccentrica Gallumbits

That is all........


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

All the above noted and absorbed (as best my grey matter will allow).

At least I now have a jug for all seasons. If I can't get the right amount of milk in the right sized cup then I'll only have myself to blame.

None of this gear costs a fortune compared to power boat racing or amateur space travel...so it's not the end of the world if I've over-jugged a bit.

It's a bit of fun and a drink to start the day. (and another a few hours later). (and then another a bit later on). And, as I'll have said before, it keeps me off the streets mugging old ladies for their pension book.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

For me I don't worry too much about etched gradations etc. I am happy to judge it by eye. I know roughly how much milk to pour into the jug for each cup size; in any case, the volume of steamed milk will vary depending on how much air you slam in.

PS 'Amateur space travel' gave me a smile. The nearest I'll get is using my Rocket ;-)


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

A quick update. Given the assistance offered here it's only polite...

Arrived today, from Cream Supplies, was the 60cl Rhinowares etched pitcher, the 75cl Motta Europa pitcher (not etched) and a couple of little 250ml Tarsons plastic measuring jugs (to dispense coffee into from the grinder, on a weigh scale...at a rather cheap £1.39p each).

Excellent service from Cream Supplies...nice, helpful, girl on the phone and quick delivery in strong boxes...good prices too. Really pleased with them...thanks to those who recommended them.

Excellent results from the Rhinowares jug....12ozs into the jug using the scale for accuracy. Frothed up to the very top of the jug so no room for a vigorous swirl...but none was needed as it was a really nice result. The Tarsons plastic measuring jugs are handy to sit under the grinder shute on top of my weigh scale and dispense the grinds into. Super smooth inside so really easy to clean with one quick wipe.

Haven't used the Motta 75cl jug yet.

And haven't ordered the Decent etched jug as yet but haven't overlooked the recommendation for it.

The only thing I noticed is I can't get my hand in the Motta or the Rhinowares to wipe them dry due to the narrowere diameter...but not the end of the world....will just stuff the cloth in and twist round.

So, in summary... yes, I'm using six ounces of milk (half red and half blue) along with 16 grams and using a 12 ounce cup...and all is well. I realise this is frowned upon, as per previous comments, but I'm happy with it.

Thanks for advice and tips etc.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

DevonStan said:


> So, in summary... yes, I'm using six ounces of milk (half red and half blue) along with 16 grams and using a 12 ounce cup...and all is well. I realise this is frowned upon, as per previous comments, but I'm happy with it.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

If you wanna do two 12oz drinks comfortably, I'd use a 1l jug to do both as that'll give you more headroom for texturing


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

Re. the last two posts ... thanks for both, as always replies are appreciated.

I have to say though that, having tried small, medium, large and super-duper large cappo cups I'm now settled with what I'm using i.e 12oz measured to the very top. I don't want smaller cups - primarily coz the two of us both like the amount of stuff in the cup now. It's strong enough to taste OK to us and there's enough of it to satisfy our preference.

Re. the size of the jugs i.e. one litre for two 12 oz's. That indeed has been what I was trying to get to the bottom of throughout the entire thread and I've outlined, above, my attempts with .... the 35cl Rhinowares (for making just one cup), the 600ml jug without a spout that I owned and used for ages and which did actually accommodate the milk well enough for both cappos, the one litre Motta jug that I've owned for years which seemed too big and had a load of space above the finished product...plus the recently acquired Motta 75cl and the 600cl Rhinowares etched jobbie which arrived today. The latter two do, both, accommodate the 12ozs quite well without excessive headroom above. However, I do still have the one litre Motta jug here at home and if, at some point, it seems I need to go back to it then I'll remember your advice, Scotford, and remain at pains to thank you once more for your thoughts.


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

Final update (I think)... Those who said a 35cl Rhinowares jug was too small to steam 6ozs were....well...almost right, insofar as it did (just) take 6ozs of frothed milk but it went right to the top unless I eased back on the microfoam....and I didn't want to do that...and left nil headroom for a quick swirl.

Ditto, the 60cl Rhinowares when I used it to steam two lots of 6 ounces at once it was just a bit too tight to get it all in when frothed.

Both were nicely made though and the etching was handy (for me).

So, they've been packed up and returned. But I retained the 70cl Motta pitcher as that is exactly the right size to do what I would like to do...it takes 12 ozs of milk and when frothed to the degree I like it frothed it still leaves a bit of space at the top to allow a quick swirl and a bit of a bang on the worktop. It has a decent spout and seems, at last, to be the tool for the job.

The little 25cl Tarson plastic measuring jugs are really handy, so they stayed.

I'll get a couple of different baskets (VST and IMS) to take 16 grams plus an IMS shower screen and see if they make any difference given how most people say there's an advantage to be had with those items.

Concerning the baskets, though, it seems that different folk have varying thoughts regarding which SIZE basket to choose as 16g falls between a couple of different choices... i.e. this ridgeless IMS 12/18 gram here https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/competition-ridgeless-double-filter-basket-by-ims-26-5h.html seems straightforward for use with 16 grams. But this (ridged) one also says it's OK for 16 grams https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/competition-double-filter-basket-by-ims-26-5h.html

When it comes to VST the 18g is too big if you believe you're only supposed to go under or over by a max one gram...but the 15 gram version sounds too small for the same reason.

Confused? Well, just a bit...


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Putting less coffee in a large basket is far easier than putting more coffee in a smaller basket .

i always seem to come back to 18g dose and a 20g VST suits this perfectly as I can go up and down a gram without too much faff (imho)

not trying to influence you in any way trying to be helpful ,but I confused just reading your post .


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## DevonStan (Sep 19, 2016)

> ]Putting less coffee in a large basket is far easier than putting more coffee in a smaller basket .
> 
> i always seem to come back to 18g dose and a 20g VST suits this perfectly as I can go up and down a gram without too much faff (imho)
> 
> not trying to influence you in any way trying to be helpfu[/color]l ,*but I confused just reading your post* .


Thanks, but now I'm not sure if I confused you and what I confused you with...let me know and I'll try to be clearer.... thanks again.

If I want to put 16g in, are you perhaps suggesting I go for the 18g VST?


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