# Java jampit - help dialling it in



## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Hi all,

I could probably use some advice to check how I'm dialling the coffee in, particularly after yesterday's mahogany roast jampit hit didn't go so well.

I'm doing straight black espresso with my la pavoni europiccola

shot 1

G0 (grind setting 0)

Dose 12.5g

Tamp low

result: 24g in 20 seconds

good looking crema, watery mouthfeel, bland taste, a little dry/bitter & tannin. Hints of spicy rounded sweetness.

Thoughts : increase dose to boost flavours. Grind finer to boost sweetness.

next test in about 10 min.

im thinking of trying

g1/2, d 12.5, t low

So, if you can tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or can give me some advice that would be great, thanks!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Grind finer


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## Kman10 (Sep 3, 2014)

What grinder are you using?


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Cheers

@kmon - It's the mignon now.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

as others have said, grind really fine and tamp really light. This is best as a shot that is pulled short on a LP.....ie go for a thick glory pour and forget about weighing in and out (howls of derision!) use you natural senses on this one. if the pour is not thick and glory, grind a little finer. You will get there in the end!


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Thanks dfk, I'll give it a shot.

but what do you mean by pulled short? Don't pull all the way down & go by colour starting to pale?

i did my second shot.

g 3/4

d 12.5

tamp low

result: 24g in 40 seconds

the crema looked good.

there was more to the flavours. More of that subtle rounded sweetness. But still no mouthfeel. Still on the bland and watery side - but not to the extent that it's indicative of channelling.

Thoughts: ignore time, g1, d 13.5, t low. This should enable me to see if I can actually get a boost to the flavours.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

how many days past roasting are the beans? Ignore the pulled short bit. I am forgetting you are on a la pa. On my lever, I would discard th first 5 seconds of the flow, capture the next 15 or so and discard the rest. that is a short shot where I am capturing the sweet spot, if all other parameters are right!


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Roast date 26/1/2015

so 11 days now. Should be well rested.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> Thoughts: ignore time, g1, d 13.5, t low. This should enable me to see if I can actually get a boost to the flavours.


If you updose you will continue to underextract & if you stick to the same output this has the effect of boosting the brew ratio. Vicious circle....

Boosting the brew ratio will push up strength but not extraction (sounds like you need to up the extraction to get out of bland watery territory).

Stick with same dose & output, go finer. If you boost up the brew ratio you will have to go finer still...save that for fine tuning once you are in the ball park.

If it's bland & watery why are you seeming to want to go coarser?


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Apologies for the confusion.

I'm not going coarser, I guess its just my notation - fractions for grind and decimals for dose.

So I went from 0 (coarse) to 3/4 (0.75 = finer). I will change here to all decimal if it helps with clarity.

Grind settings on the mignon go from 0-5 then back to 0.

So from 0, if I rotated anticlockwise to grind coarser I'd go back to 5

I tend to find water pours through a puck at 5 (back from 0 point) and jams the pavoni at 1

ok so you want me to try going finer, same dose, same output, to hell with the time.

ill try G 1.25, d 12.5, t low


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ignore the grind settings on the Mignon! Just simply note your adjustments as very small, i.e. 1 to 2 mm at a time and forget the numbers. If you pull a shot and need to adjust, make the adjustment so it is ready for the next shot


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok so I did

G1.25, d 12.5, t low

result = 24g in 1min 15sec

black liquid started coming out after 15 seconds, barely a semblance of a broken 0.1mm crema over the top. Starting to get coffee grinds in glass. Not much flavour. Ashy aftertaste. Not pleasant.

What point have I reached and where do I go from here?

I'd go back to the best of my previous shots and see how adjusting another variable would affect things.

So I'd try a G 0.75 with an increased dose of 13g

But I don't know and I'd value your advice!

I've refilled la pavoni and she'll be ready in about 30 min for another round!

Thanks

p.s. I ended up with only a 100g pack which will give me about 7 shots to try and dial it in to see what this bean is like.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

"Ashy" sounds like over. Go coarser.

If your best shots are 13g dose why are you using 12.5g?

Just change one variable at a time. Don't keep changing dose & grind.


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

MWJB said:


> "Ashy" sounds like over. Go coarser.
> 
> If your best shots are 13g dose why are you using 12.5g?
> 
> Just change one variable at a time. Don't keep changing dose & grind.


I have only used a dose of 12.5g so far.

I have just been changing the grind setting. Gradually getting finer and finer until the last shot with coffee granules coming through.

I was suggesting going back to my nicest tasting grind level and trying to change another variable. In this case try increasing the dose from 12.5 to 13g

So it looks like my thoughts on what to do next do actually mirror your suggestions...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> p.s. I ended up with only a 100g pack which will give me about 7 shots to try and dial it in to see what this bean is like.


100/7 = 14g...with retention & purging, ~5 shots might be more realistic?

When you get to 20g or less it might be cafetiere time?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> Ok so I did
> 
> G1.25, d 12.5, t low
> 
> ...


Way too fine a grind


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Between each different bean, I dismantle the grinder and use hoover and toothbrush.

Between each fineness setting, I give the grinder a good shoogle and push the toothbrush up the spout. This dislodges about 2.5-3g. The next shot needs about that extra added to get enough out.

So hopefully I'm covering retention and cross contamination to a reasonable degree.

I have just ran 3 more tests.

Based on my previous nicest grind setting I wanted to see the effect of adjusting the dose.

test 4 G= 0.75, D = 13g (+0.5), T = Light

result = 25g in 30sec

very bitter.

Conclusion: Too hot

Test 5: repeat test 4 parameters, G = 0.75, D = 13g, T = Light

result 22g in 32 sec

good crema, sweet notes, quite strong, but not a nice drink for me. On the bitter and bland side.

Test 6: Try the other way with the dose. G0.75, D= 12g, T=Light

result: 20g in 25 sec (I may have ran out of water in the tank!

good crema, sweeter, livelier, caramel. But lingering bitter aftertaste which I found unpleasant.

So, I may have enough for one more shots worth. Care to suggest a wildcard?

But I'm not sure I can really make such a significant difference that I will come to like this.

Maybe its simply not to my taste?

But it would be handy if any of you lot lived in Edinburgh and could show me what you think a good shot of this should taste like!









Sounds like a good reason to explore local roasters with a coffee shop!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> Between each different bean, I dismantle the grinder and use hoover and toothbrush.
> 
> Between each fineness setting, I give the grinder a good shoogle and push the toothbrush up the spout. This dislodges about 2.5-3g. The next shot needs about that extra added to get enough out.
> 
> ...


Cafetiere time. Best really to do this first.You're taking snapshots of various stages of extraction, possibly tasting more of the inconsistancies, than of the bean.

You changed dose & ratio on the last shot..naughty! 

You like coffee, right? Most folk like coffee generally if it is in a reasonable range of extraction...you must have read the description before you bought it, so why think the coffee (barring any tangible defects) won't be to your liking?

How are you keeping your records of shots? How are you able to reference it?

May be me being pedantic, but how come your shots all land bang on the gram...I can't do this.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Scales to the nearest gram only ?


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Ok I'll answer your points in turn...

cafetiere... I hate coffee that way as I've said before, but what the hell...

dose and ratio on the last shot... I meant to change the dose just. Ratio because I ran out of water in the Pavoni! Oops!

Why won't I like it? I'm in the process of trying to learn what I like. This was a selection chosen for me by the roasters with the warning that I would likely find coffees I don't like but the range of 11 different single origin beans/blends/roast levels would help me identify what my tastes are and what I would like.

How do I keep records? The first few days on my pavoni were on my iPad. Then I used a notepad and pen and have recorded every shot pulled with details similar to or typically more expansive than the tasting notes given above. for example I start of every day recording the bean, the roast date and the days past roast date. This way, for one bean that I was able to dial in I could tell that by day 14 it was losing its flavour and I needed to invest in a better container than the supplied bag rolled up with a bit of tape.

Shots landing on the gram. Well spotted. I've always recorded everything to the 0.1g - apart from today where I missed it on the extracted shot only. Everywhere else, I had time to be precise. I imagine I would have rounded to the nearest 0.5 of a gram, certainly not the whole gram. Too much rushing between work, pulling a shot and writing here as it happened. Something had to give!


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Scales to the nearest gram only ?


No, 0.1g.

See my last point.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cafetiere - This is a bit troubling. Cafetiere coffee is less concentrated, no crema, but if you followed my earlier instructions (another thread) you will most likely hit a ball park extraction, the lower concentration will allow you to taste more subtle flavours, giving you an idea of how the coffee itself tastes prior to making espresso. If you hate coffee made like this, why would you like coffee made 10x stronger?

Do you score the shots (say 1-9, 5 being neither like/dislike), how do you sort by preference?


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

Why do I like coffee 10 times stronger?

I just do.

Thats the way my tastes have evolved.

I started off on coffee made with a briki when I was at primary school. At high school I moved over to cafetiere. When I was living in the south of england I couldn't stand the way the water made coffee taste so I gave up and moved to tea. When I returned to Scotland I rediscovered coffee made with a bialetti and have loved that for the last decade. Until I discovered freshly roasted coffee and realised there was something missing.

Of the 2 'god shots' I have pulled I discovered that I do not need milk and sugar and the velvety creaminess when coupled with a sweet, rich, smooth glow..... is just sublime.

Those 2 coffees I have had in local coffee shops and roasters and I was able to pull them better. For my tastes at least!

How do I score the shots?

I directly compare to previous shots. I number each of the days shots, typically between 4-8 per day.

I rate the condition and quality of the crema first

I slurp and move the liquid around my mouth and write about how it tastes, smells and feels.

I then directly relate each parameter to each previous shot.

e.g. shot 3 was sweeter than my previous best of shot 2. There were also high notes of sweet spice starting to come out. It tastes like Captain Morgans spiced rum!!! This is really nice. But there are lower notes of a horrible bitter tang I can't get rid of. Not a high acid tang. Its like a tannin.

Those are the sort of notes I made with yesterdays attempt to dial in Mahogany Roast Jampit

Loved the top notes, but hated the lows unfortunately.

**

Addition.

I should point out that when a taste test goes over multiple days I make the first shot a copy of the best of those before to act as a fresh frame of reference for that days testing.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Its odd to love espresso but 'hate' brewed coffee. Maybe you've never had a great one


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

ok, I have to admit that I'm very black and white in the way I express myself about anything in life. 'Hate' is strong. Like dishwater, generally bland with little bits of flavour and without any depth is probably closer!







lol

But its very true, I certainly may not have had a good one.

I'll tell you what... next time I'm at Steampunk or Machina Espresso, I'll look into one of their brewed coffees. Lets try it as it should be and then I can have an accurate and current opinion of where my personal tastes lie.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> Lets try it as it should be and then I can have an accurate and current opinion of where my personal tastes lie.


Brewed coffee, especially steeped, is more like riding on a train, waiting for it to pull into a station...leaves on the track? Well, the coffee has no other pressing appointments, give it a taste, see how things pan out. If certain basic parameters are met it should turn out right eventually.

Espresso, more like parachuting on to a moving train as it passes through the station, you're landing on the train, sometimes short of the destination, sometimes a little past it...things happen more quickly, more precision is required, more variables...but either method can make coffee as it should be.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> But its very true, I certainly may not have had a good one.
> 
> I'll tell you what... next time I'm at Steampunk or Machina Espresso,.


I would suggest contacting funinacup and pay for some basic training to help your skills and perhaps help develop your taste buds. Cheaper than blowing money on bag after bag of coffee


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness (Dec 14, 2014)

@boots

Yes. I've been thinking along those sorts of lines


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