# ZOE Sanremo Group 2 - info on how to sell.



## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

Hi all,

I purchased a ZOE Sanremo Group 2 for my business that unfortuntely fell through.

I am looking to sell it along with equipment and an auto-grinder however i have am unsure how much to sell for. My lease still has £4000 outstanding.

Any ideas? If you have any info on places to sell equipment please do let me know.

Best!

Zoe


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Are you legally allowed if still owing lease?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Zoe, we have an active sales section but you need a certain amount of qualifying posts. You could start off by listing the equipment on this thread with a clear indication of model and age, then build up your posts so you can place an ad


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Are you legally allowed if still owing lease?


This ....if your leasing it and not paid not off , then it's not yours to sell .

If you stop payments , then new buyer could have the gear taken off them or have to pay the outstanding lease owed @Glenn can you clarify as I wouldn't want anyone caught out like this


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

A distinction between shop lease and equipment lease needs to be made.

If the items are leased they should be returned to the person they are being leased from (not on sold)

However, if owned items are being sold to cover a shortfall in the lease for the building then this is not an issue.

This is common when businesses fail.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ZoeB245 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I purchased a ZOE Sanremo Group 2 for my business that unfortuntely fell through.
> 
> ...


4K Sounds like the lease on the machine and grinder. As others have said, it's not yours to legally sell. Even if you paid off the lease, the equipment would only be worth a fraction of that lease amount....were talking around 1.3K ish for the machine (assuming it's unused) and between 100-250 for the grinder depending on what it is. This particular machine never really gets sold as a normal sale, it's always packaged in a lease/repair/maintenance and often beans plan. So it's really hard to come up with a value as anything quoted is artificial and all websites will say something like POA (which is a pretty crappy way to sell anything), I never buy anything that says POA on principle.

Is this the same package that was on Gumtree in September?

*Might be cheaper if you simply find out how much you would have left to pay if they simply took the machine and grinder back, they may agree to take it all back unused, if you simply make a payment of a few hundred pounds more and they simply end the lease. As unused they can still probably re-lease it and if they think you might as a LTD company go bankrupt, they could end up with less!*


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

Hi guys,

Thanks for getting back to me.

The finance company have told me i can sell it on or alternatively hand over the lease.

I cannot send the machine back to them as it is owned by me.

DaveCUK thanks giving me an idea of the amount i may be able to advertise for.

When agreeing to the lease they obviously never give you full details on how much the equipment is worth and obviously as a first time business owner i was very foolish!.

Zoe


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

I thought i would add a few photos FYI.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I like that, quite cool/retro styled, ripe for a powder coating


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@ZoeB245 so is there Anthing outstanding on the lease of the machine ? If you sell it - how will any outstanding lease £s be cleared ? Dependent on you paying it off ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

SED or SAP model? What's the power rating?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ZoeB245 said:


> The finance company have told me i can sell it on or alternatively hand over the lease.
> 
> I cannot send the machine back to them as it is owned by me.
> 
> ...


You need to check the small print in the finance agreement. *If you stop paying the lease.....what happens is your fundamental question* and something any prospective purchaser would ask. A lack of clarity on this makes the worth of the machine close to 0. I realise they say it's owned by you, but there is "owned" and "owned".

Perhaps an important lesson for prospective new business ventures...don't lease your kit, if at all possible buy it. Get the machine you want the grinder you want and the beans from wherever you want. Plenty of companies who do maintenance as well as independent techs.


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## Emmodd (Sep 23, 2015)

As above. If it is leased how do you own it?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Emmodd said:


> As above. If it is leased how do you own it?


Often with these products they don't actually lease per se, the Company providing the services, washes the debt through a finance company. This way if the new business goes bad, as so many do, then they are not left holding the bag with kit they have no use for. So they arrange a finance deal for the debt. The contract is now with the finance company, who may, or may not have some hold on the equipment depending on the financial agreement purchased.

Sometimes this finance not only covers just the equipment, but also forward payment for all the years of so called leased services, including beans etc..and you always end up paying full RRP on everything.

e.g. machine grinder cost 2K, 3 years maintenance with "AN Other LTD" £1200 +cost of agreement £1000= £4200. The finance arrangement they make for you might be for 3K and you are also hold a contract with AN Other LTD, on a monthly basis. Or AN Other gets paid their entire contract amount and full payment for the kit in which case they get their £3200 paid in full. You then have paid full RRP on everything 3 years forward maintenance and the full additional cost of the finance agreement. One you didn't make yourself, but AN other and the finance company cooked up for you....and it's that finance agreement which matters. The finance company may use the "ownership" term quite loosely, in other words, you "own" it unless you don't finish paying for it...

It couldn't possibly be a worse deal and it's always better if you simply get a loan, then buy the Kit and maintenance yourself. Most people only realise this once burned.


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## Emmodd (Sep 23, 2015)

Sounds messy


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

I currently pay £188 a month. If i sell it i would put the money i get plus my own to cover off the remaining £3800.


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

*DavecUK*

This is where i get confused and financial leases get tricky!

When signed the agreement i believed i could hand the machine back for a fee if my business failed.

The finance company are now saying it is mine and i can see it on or reassign the lease, i cannot send it back. If i sold the machine i would put that money towards paying off the financial lease then it would be solely the new owners.

The grinder is my own.


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

I wish i had found this forum before signing the contract, but as an excited new business owner i was very naive!

Yes i have been 'burned'.


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

*Mrboots2u*

I currently pay £188 a month. If i sell it i would put the money i get plus my own to cover off the remaining £3800.


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> SED or SAP model? What's the power rating?


Does this help?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Zoe, I don't know if they can help or you've already tried but it might be worth talking to citizens advice bureau or somebody like that? Sounds like you've got a pretty rough deal.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Even speaking to a solicitor may be of benefit, first hour free and all that!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It looks like an SED and it would (just) run off a plug. I'm potentially interested, providing it's yours to sell and depending on what you value it at.


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

Jlarkin - Yes, i have spoken to a debt advicer who said financial agreements are known for being awkard to get out of but i will be popping in to CAB to discusss.

Froggysyle - not a bad idea about the solictior, hopefully they wont tie me into paying though!

Jeebsy - it is mine to sell, that i have in writing. I am in the process of figuring out how much it is worth and hopefully finding a way out of the financial agreement.

Cheers guys!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Maybe you should not sell it till you see if you can get out the agreement?


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

froggystyle said:


> Maybe you should not sell it till you see if you can get out the agreement?


Yes i am going to go see a solitor toay. However if i cannot get out i don't really want to be paying monthly for another 3 years for a machine that's just sitting there loosing value...

Hopefully i will sort it out!


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## ZoeB245 (Dec 30, 2015)

Hi all,

Just to let everyone know the lease issue is now resolved (paid off in the end) and I have put the machine and grinder up for sale separately.

Best,

Z

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?29722-FOR-SALE-Sanremo-SR70-On-demand-Grinder-amp-Knock-out-tray-with-accessories


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