# Having crema with the non-pressurized filter on gaggia baby class!



## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

I'm new in the forum so my first thing to do it's say a big hello to everyone!

I'm starting this discussion because I own a gaggia baby class and I use it with the pressurized crema perfetta filter. Well this filter creates a lot of crema which is well know to be "fake crema" expeccialy when it's used in combination with the very tiny cofee ground.

Well I would now buy a standard filter ( the non pressurized one ) but I don't want my cofee to be "aqueous" without crema, so I would like to know how crema can be done with the standard filter!


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Using freshly ground coffee and getting the tamp an distribution should provide a good start to getting good crema. Note some coffees have lots and some not at all.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't be fooled by the crema test. Junk the pressurised basket and use a stock one. As Gangstarrrr says, use fresh coffee freshly ground and be guided by how it smells and tastes.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Generally, if you use fresh coffee, you will have crema.


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## spinningwoman (Sep 25, 2013)

Also, just to be clear, 'fresh' means freshly roasted (within the last 2-3 weeks, say) as well as freshly ground to an espresso fineness. In my experience, the more basic your setup the more important freshness of bean and grind become to produce a good result. (Not that they aren't just as important with a great setup of course!)

I started with an old Krups pump espresso machine from a charity shop and supermarket or Whittards beans produced something more like a French cafe creme or a filter coffee. I added a cheap burr grinder, but even the finest setting didn't make much difference. Then I started using Hasbean coffee, roasted that week or the week before, and I was getting real espresso with crema - not the best in the world but far better than 90% of coffee shops I'd ever been in back then.


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

Thank you for your advices I'll buy the filter as soon as I can, anyway sadly I do not have a grinder at the moment so I have to buy already grinded coffee


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

Anyway one a friends of mine lend me one of this non-pressurized filter and I remember that the coffee was very very liquid. This is why I have never bought one.

P.S. Sorry for the double post.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Pre ground coffee bought from supermarkets is always too coarse for espresso machines.A decent grinder is the optimum way to go and grind the beans as required.

Without a grinder you would get a better cup of coffee buying small quantities of coffee from a roaster and having it ground suitable for espresso, keeping it in small airtight containers.

Look for a local roaster as postage pushes up the cost of the coffee.


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> Pre ground coffee bought from supermarkets is always too coarse for espresso machines.A decent grinder is the optimum way to go and grind the beans as required.
> 
> Without a grinder you would get a better cup of coffee buying small quantities of coffee from a roaster and having it ground suitable for espresso, keeping it in small airtight containers.
> 
> Look for a local roaster as postage pushes up the cost of the coffee.


Well I have bought the non-pressurized filter and some coffee from the same seller as it has high quality coffee in beans and a professional big grinder so it manage to grind it in real time, I have used them with the mono-dose non-pressurized filter and the result has been a very liquid coffee with no crema at all, preatty disappointed from that...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

light87 said:


> Well I have bought the non-pressurized filter and some coffee from the same seller as it has high quality coffee in beans and a professional big grinder so it manage to grind it in real time, I have used them with the mono-dose non-pressurized filter and the result has been a very liquid coffee with no crema at all, preatty disappointed from that...


Few questions please, then may able to help . What is the coffee ? Where is the coffee from,how old is it ? Have you ground it yourself or has the roaster it supplier done it for you?


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

If I remember well the coffee should be called "Caffe De medici" ( this one http://www.caffedemedici.it/ ) also l think that it was a mixture of pure italian expresso and a little part of arabica. The coffee beans have been grinded in front of me and the grinder was good, a professional one.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

light87 said:


> If I remember well the coffee should be called "Caffe De medici" ( this one http://www.caffedemedici.it/ ) also l think that it was a mixture of pure italian expresso and a little part of arabica. The coffee beans have been grinded in front of me and the grinder was good, a professional one.


Ok you need a grinder to effectively make great espresso in an espresso machine . I have no doubt that the grinder used is a professional Grinder, but the person won't know when he's grinding it , what dose ( amount of coffee you are using ) . How much pressure you tamp with , and at what temperature you are making it at.

There is no one grind fits all for espresso , each bean ( and at what age it is ) , dose , machine , requires a specific grind for the variables involved.

Simply put you need a grinder capable of grinding for espresso .

Plus if the coffee isn't fresh ( anymore than 4 weeks past roast day say ) , then it isn't going to make a crema no matter what you do .

The crema you that appears with a pressurised basket , isn't a crema at all , it just coffee forced through a widget , to give it the appearance of crema .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

In the absense of you having a grinder , you do need a few things. Fresh roasted beans ( where you buy them from should be able to tell you their roast date ) . If they can't don't buy from them.

Also do you have some scales . So you know how much coffee you are dosing in the basket?

Do you have a tamper to level and press the coffee with ?

Do you know how much coffee is coming out for the machine and over how long ?

What does it taste like ?

If you have and all know all this already , then I apologise for being patronising . If not then let us know and we can try and help some more .

Cheers


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

well actually I can't manage to buy a grinder right now maybe in the future. Regarding the rest, for dosing I'm using the tamper and the doser that came with the gaggia baby class, so I put exactly one dose in the mono-dose filter. Regarding the time needed for filling an espresso bar cup with this non-pressurized filter it take 20/25 seconds while with the pressurized filter it take less time ( 8-10 seconds ).


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

You could try increasing the dose or tamping harder to see if you can slow down the shot that way. Might be worth a go?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

light87 said:


> well actually I can't manage to buy a grinder right now maybe in the future. Regarding the rest, for dosing I'm using the tamper and the doser that came with the gaggia baby class, so I put exactly one dose in the mono-dose filter. Regarding the time needed for filling an espresso bar cup with this non-pressurized filter it take 20/25 seconds while with the pressurized filter it take less time ( 8-10 seconds ).


There are hand grinders that will suffice for £30-40 , they need some elbow grease tho. Scales will help keep a consistent dose. ? It is the double basket your using ? Again is beans aren't fresh you won't get a crema ( either not fresh when ground ) or gone stale are grinding . I suppose the main question is how does it taste really.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> You could try increasing the dose or tamping harder to see if you can slow down the shot that way. Might be worth a go?


If the beans are stale to start it's not going to get a crema . Scales form eBay for £4-5 ( that got to at least 0.1 gram) will help you see if you can up the dose as urban suggested.


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

well maybe tomorrow if I have time I'll make a video. Regarding the taste well it's not bad, it's just very very liquid! Something that we don't like that much in Italy!!



urbanbumpkin said:


> You could try increasing the dose or tamping harder to see if you can slow down the shot that way. Might be worth a go?


I have also tried that, I have gained less liquid coffee but preatty much it's the same!


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

Hi guys, I have some new questions for you!

1) What about this grinder http://www.redcoon.it/B227050-Nemox-Lux-Plus_Macinacaff%C3%A9 ?? It doesn't cost too and it seems good but I have red this http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/13895-nemox-lux-disassembly-adjusting-finer-grind.html

2) I have installed the rancilio silvia steam wand V2 on my gaggia baby and I'm kind of disappointed with it, it does indeed make micro crema but it produce a very few quantity of it. The pannarello wand produce a lot more crema even if it was with bigger bubble. So I really don't know which one use. Is there a wand which produce micro crema in decent quantity and that can be installed on the gaggia baby??


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## bazschmaz (Sep 2, 2013)

From experience Lavazza Rosso or Creme e Gusta give good results for espresso on a Baby Gaggia. Both can be bought at the usual supermarkets.

Thats what I used when I started out. Ditch the pressurised basket as soon as you can.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Are you still using the pressurised basket or have you moved to a non pressurised one?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

light87 said:


> Hi guys, I have some new questions for you!
> 
> 2) I have installed the rancilio silvia steam wand V2 on my gaggia baby and I'm kind of disappointed with it, it does indeed make micro crema but it produce a very few quantity of it. The pannarello wand produce a lot more crema even if it was with bigger bubble. So I really don't know which one use. Is there a wand which produce micro crema in decent quantity and that can be installed on the gaggia baby??


You will be able to make plenty of foam with the silvia wand. First tip is to make sure you time when to start steaming correctly. You need to do it before the thermostat cuts the heating element so that it stays on. I'm not familiar with the baby but on a classic you need to try and do it before the light on the steaming button goes off. Second tip is that you need to create the bubbles at the start or stretch the milk. To do that put the wand in at an angle and open the steam knob. Then bring the tip to the surface until you get a ch ch sound. This will push air in to the milk. Once the jug feels warm to touch plunge the tip in to the milk to get it rolling and this will fold the bubbles in to the milk. There's a few vids in on here somewhere of people doing it on a classic. Worth watching.


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Are you still using the pressurised basket or have you moved to a non pressurised one?


I have both of them and I use both. The non-pressurized filter is preatty useless without a grinder as with supermarket already-grinded coffee it makes a very very liquid espresso with no crema at all.

It need a grinder to grind the beans on the fly to have crema with the non-pressurized filter...



> You will be able to make plenty of foam with the silvia wand. First tip is to make sure you time when to start steaming correctly. You need to do it before the thermostat cuts the heating element so that it stays on. I'm not familiar with the baby but on a classic you need to try and do it before the light on the steaming button goes off. Second tip is that you need to create the bubbles at the start or stretch the milk. To do that put the wand in at an angle and open the steam knob. Then bring the tip to the surface until you get a ch ch sound. This will push air in to the milk. Once the jug feels warm to touch plunge the tip in to the milk to get it rolling and this will fold the bubbles in to the milk. There's a few vids in on here somewhere of people doing it on a classic. Worth watching.


I'll take a look, never tried this: " To do that put the wand in at an angle and open the steam knob " ... anyway the silvia steam wand it much more difficoult to use than the pannarello one.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

light87 said:


> I have both of them and I use both. The non-pressurized filter is preatty useless without a grinder as with supermarket already-grinded coffee it makes a very very liquid espresso with no crema at all.
> 
> It need a grinder to grind the beans on the fly to have crema with the non-pressurized filter...
> 
> I'll take a look, never tried this: " To do that put the wand in at an angle and open the steam knob " ... anyway the silvia steam wand it much more difficoult to use than the pannarello one.


The panarello is designed to push plenty of air in easily but will not get nice fine microfoam. Once you've mastered it there's no going back.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Check this thread out by one of the other members. http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12108


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Check the vid in this thread by Dave Wilton, demonstrates the technique well.https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?12108-Gaggia-classic-steaming-and-latte-art

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?12108-Gaggia-classic-steaming-and-latte-art


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I've tried to post a link to a thread that would help but keeps getting sent for moderation. If you look for Dave Wilton's thread in the video section.


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

Neill said:


> I've tried to post a link to a thread that would help but keeps getting sent for moderation. If you look for Dave Wilton's thread in the video section.


I have seen the video..it's the same situation that I gain, the crema it's just on surface, the vast majority of the milk is just hot. ANyway for this I think it's just about personal taste.

I'm italian, so I'm used to have a lot more crema than that! If you go in a bar the cappuccino is a bit different! Much more milk crema!!


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

If it's microfoam you're referring to (crema is the oily foam on to of the coffee) then it isn't just on top, it is combined throughout the jug or at least a lot of it. It you add a lot of air at the start you can get plenty of drier foam if you want. It's all about the technique.


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## koi1957 (Nov 26, 2013)

where can i get non-pressurized filter for a baby gaggia


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## koi1957 (Nov 26, 2013)

where can i buy a non-pressurized filter for gaggia baby


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## koi1957 (Nov 26, 2013)

is it just the basket


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It is just the Basket. Happy Donkey do the standards 58mm non pressurised baskets


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

Hi guys!

I was thinking about buying a grinder with conical mills ( don't know how it should be written in english..sorry ). I have seen those models but I don't know which one is a better choice for having a crema espresso with the NON-pressurized basket:

- Rancilio rocky ( actually I have red not that good comment about this )

- Nemox Lux

- La Pavoni Jolly Lusso

- La Pavoni kube mill http://www.lapavoni.it/model.asp?id=609


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The rocky is flat burr stepped grinder , not conical....

I have not idea about the others, coffeechap?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Nemox Lux is I think an MC2 in a party frock, The Rocky is a known quantity not sure about the others but they never seem to get mentioned on here very much either from people looking to buy one or people who own one, so take from that what you will.


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

what do you mean with "is, I think, an MC2 in a party frock" ? A rebrand ?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

light87 said:


> what do you mean with "is, I think, an MC2 in a party frock" ? A rebrand ?


Kind of a rebadge, there are quite a few grinders that use that same burr set and configuration but are constructed by different companies, Ascaso make one and the same grinder is also available branded as a Fracino as an example. The MC2 in a party frock is a reference to the fact that the Iberital MC2 whilst being a fairly capable little grinder is pretty ugly, whereas the Ascaso/Fracino version is available in a a variety of finishes


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

how this seems to you http://www.lapavoni.it/model.asp?id=609 ??


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## light87 (Oct 4, 2013)

no one can help on this??


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