# Sage Barista Touch Help!!!



## dragonguy1216 (May 12, 2021)

I hate to be that person, but I am. I'm asking the questions that have already been asked. But I just can't get a great coffee from my Sage Barista Touch. I have read the sticky/saved notes, I've spent today and yesterday going through this forum, tried a good few tweaks, but I'm still not pleased.

I'm currently using the Pendo coffee beans from Baileys coffee in Belfast. My local coffee shop uses this and their coffee is exquisite. But my espresso shots are always always always quite sour and bitter, and when I add the steamed milk to make a latte, it's always so so bland and not at all as flavorsome as the lattes from my local coffee shop.

I've experimented with my machine a lot! I got it in February. I usually have the grind setting between 8-10, grind for about 20-22seconds, which normally gives me 18g of grounds. I then brew this for 25-30seconds and normally get an espresso shot weighing 35-40g. But it's always so bitter (and luke warm). In saying that, I've never actually had an espresso shot before, so I'm not 100% sure how they should taste. But I don't think they should be as bitter as mine are? But I'm mostly a latte drinker, so I'd love help on making a rich, flavorsome latte and not the bland ones I've been getting. Thanks


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@dragonguy1216 Welcome to the forum....I think on that machine it might help to warm things up first by pulling a blank shot....but we have members with those machine who will no doubt offer better help than me.


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## dragonguy1216 (May 12, 2021)

Thanks DavecUK. I probably should have went into more detail, but thought I was already getting too longwinded. I normally do pull a blank shot of just hot water first to heat the machine up and clean any residue that might be there. I've also bought a calibrated tamper to help with that. But still not great espressos.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

I run a few shots to get my BE water to heat up properly, 3/4. That was probably the single biggest influence on my shot taste. Next I changed the burr setting to allow me to grind finer, that way the coffee came out slower and was thicker, more like honey.

I'm assuming your beans are rested for 10+ days? Also, experiment with 18.5g, 19g.

You're running a 'manual shot' right? Not just pressing button and waiting for it to do it's thing?

Tamping is hard to get right initially, I just could not do it evenly with the Sage one. I got a Motta and things improved massively.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Best way to get a BE up to temperature is to run blank shot through an empty pressurised basket - bit of a pain but it works. Alternatively select steam, pump thumps deselect and pull a shot as soon as the machine allows - or steam milk first as some do.

Flushing is unlikely to get water up to brewing temperature because the flow rate will be higher than when pulling a shot. It will get some heat into the machine. This is why it's pointless measuring the temperature of the water that flows out during a flush. The best way of finding out if there is a problem is 2 shots on the trot and taste them. If milk based try doing milk first. Don't flush - do that before doing the milk. On the other hand read this

www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/jcxubl/temperature_issues_breville_barista_touch_updated/

You'll need to add https:// yourself. If I do the first part of the post pops up. There are some informed comments. Make 2 drinks and see but if prep is varied too much taste will too.

Tamping firmly helps get around grinds prep problems. Think in terms of 12kg. The Sage tamper is like marmite, some like some don't. It's actually ideal for the technique Dave suggests and it most people have no problem applying 10kg or so. It's important that there is an even heap before the tamper is used, so called distribution tools don't help with that. They can be used to help keep the main tamp level. Stirring grinds can be really bad news even too much of it. Don't assume it has to be done.

The usual comment about reducing bitterness is to reduce the grind setting. 2 choices then, keep the time the same or extend it to get the same out. There is no option other than to taste it. Ratio may need to go to over 4 but I've only found that using commercial beans. Not surprising really, commercial basket for a double is 14g and a double weighs 60g. A light double basket holds 12g. In practice in cafe's it could be any amount going into the final drink.  The shot size Costa use on motorways is interesting. There isn't a short cut to sorting this aspect out - no magic formulae. There are even beans where you might brew for a ratio of 3 in 30sec and find that if the time is cut to 20 the drink sweetens.

Having used a thermocoil BE I do think these machines favour longer shot times. Middling 30's or so. Some people use 40sec on others even DB's etc and when profiling pressure and doing things like that even longer.

The programmed buttons can work to with in a couple of grams out but only if prep is pretty consistent. I found shot time could vary by up to around 5~6sec at times but often only a couple. Same as some one would hope to achieve weighing out.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

🤣 As I drink americano I forgot espresso drinkers. Try watering them down to open the flavours out. Mine always are but subtle tastes from say light roasts need weaker drinks to be made. Some beans are so strong it's not even possible to detect the various tastes that may be mentioned in the tasting notes and using some in milk based drinks can alter the taste considerably.


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## dragonguy1216 (May 12, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> I run a few shots to get my BE water to heat up properly, 3/4. That was probably the single biggest influence on my shot taste. Next I changed the burr setting to allow me to grind finer, that way the coffee came out slower and was thicker, more like honey.
> 
> I'm assuming your beans are rested for 10+ days? Also, experiment with 18.5g, 19g.
> 
> ...


 Yeah I've started running blank shots to heat it up - like I just run the water through the portafilter as if I was making a shot.

Is the burr simply the grind size dial?

What do you mean by letting the beans rest? I buy them online and usually use them once they arrive lol

I also don't know what you mean by manual shot? It's the barista touch I have, so I grind the beans with the built in grinder, tamp them, attach the portafilter and press the button to brew (normally 25 seconds)

What i keep thinking about is I also have a Bosch Tassimo machine. You put a pod in and it makes the coffee. It has a much stronger 'coffee' taste when I make a latte compared to a latte from my barista touch?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

dragonguy1216 said:


> Yeah I've started running blank shots to heat it up - like I just run the water through the portafilter as if I was making a shot.
> 
> Is the burr simply the grind size dial?
> 
> ...


 Couple of things you're doing wrong here. You have to let the beans rest, that's non-negoatiable. They need to 'de-gas', they emit CO2 and aren't ready for use for...well it varies but rule of thumb is at least 7 days. Some say 14 days, I do about 10 days but it varies by bean, best to ask the roaster. Square Mile to a very popular bean that they say should be left for at least 3 weeks and it's best at 4 weeks. Point is if you are using them right off the bat you will never get the proper flavour out of them.

Manual shot means you choose how long the infusion is and you choose how long the rest of the shot is. Atm you are letting the machine choose which means output varies. Look in the manual but for my Barista Express it's a long press of the 2 cup button for the infusion time (let's say 7/8 seconds for that), then stop pressing button and the shot will run. Then press again to stop the shot. For instance, 29/30 seconds for the shot *after infusion*, depending on what I've determined is the best for the bean. Maybe longer.

'Is the burr simply the grind size dial?' - No, I mean the burr inside the grinder. You can remove it and adjust it from the factory settings. it is very easy and is designed to let you do this. This video show you how:






'What i keep thinking about is I also have a Bosch Tassimo machine. You put a pod in and it makes the coffee. It has a much stronger 'coffee' taste when I make a latte compared to a latte from my barista touch?'

I'd say that's a combination of the beans you are using - roast level? what are tasting notes? origin? and the fact you are not extracting the flavours properly atm. I can make extremely strong 'coffee flavour' coffee now but I couldn't at the start.


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## dragonguy1216 (May 12, 2021)

> 1 hour ago, CocoLoco said:
> 
> Couple of things you're doing wrong here. You have to let the beans rest, that's non-negoatiable. They need to 'de-gas', they emit CO2 and aren't ready for use for...well it varies but rule of thumb is at least 7 days. Some say 14 days, I do about 10 days but it varies by bean, best to ask the roaster. Square Mile to a very popular bean that they say should be left for at least 3 weeks and it's best at 4 weeks. Point is if you are using them right off the bat you will never get the proper flavour out of them.
> 
> ...


 Thank you! I have used the beans over the course of 2 weeks and never noticed a difference in flavour, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong more than just that.

I will have a play about with the burr setting - what do you recommend I do to it?

I'm using Bailey's Pendo blend - my local coffee shop use it and its delicious! I'm not sure if it's a light blend or not (it doesn't seem to say?) but it has notes of almond, forest fruit and chocolate. It's 50% Brazilian, 40% Columbian and 10% Ethiopian.

Really appreciate you taking the time to help me out!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

CocoLoco said:


> 'Is the burr simply the grind size dial?' - No, I mean the burr inside the grinder. You can remove it and adjust it from the factory settings. it is very easy and is designed to let you do this. This video show you how:


 Brilliant. If some one does that willy nilly and comes across beans that just wont grind which can happen they may well grind with the burrs rubbing and wreck them. That can even burn the motor out.

The best way to find how beans age is to try them over a period of time and see if they change. It varies enormously. There may be some mileage in keeping them for some time where grinder changes as they age isn't needed but it doesn't apply to all beans. Taste may change significantly as they are aged. I'm using one at the moment. The main thing was it needed a couple of days in a bean can. Some other beans are said to take a couple of weeks.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

ajohn said:


> willy nilly


 What? It's designed to change settings. There's numbers, arrows and writing on it to help you do that. Who's talking about 'beans that won't grind'? You mean beans so old and hard that it'll break the grinder? Who would use those? They'd break any grinder.

The BE factory set doesn't grind fine enough. I tried a good number of beans, it just gushes out. Sage themselves tell you to change that setting.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

dragonguy1216 said:


> I will have a play about with the burr setting - what do you recommend I do to it?
> 
> I'm using Bailey's Pendo blend - my local coffee shop use it and its delicious! I'm not sure if it's a light blend or not (it doesn't seem to say?) but it has notes of almond, forest fruit and chocolate. It's 50% Brazilian, 40% Columbian and 10% Ethiopian.


 I just moved it down one, see how that played out, I think I ended moving it down two in the end. Maybe ask @ajohn, he thinks this is a problem, he usually knows about these things. I don't see how, it's designed to do it, Sage tell you to do it. Move 1 notch at a time, test coffee. If you are worried, don't do it.

People say the Sage grinder doesn't do that well with lighter roasts, it's better with medium, med/dark and darker roasts. Not sure how true that is, I haven't actually put any light roasts in mine but something to bear in mind.


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## dragonguy1216 (May 12, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> I just moved it down one, see how that played out, I think I ended moving it down two in the end. Maybe ask @ajohn, he thinks this is a problem, he usually knows about these things. I don't see how, it's designed to do it, Sage tell you to do it. Move 1 notch at a time, test coffee. If you are worried, don't do it.
> 
> People say the Sage grinder doesn't do that well with lighter roasts, it's better with medium, med/dark and darker roasts. Not sure how true that is, I haven't actually put any light roasts in mine but something to bear in mind.


 Is there a medium/dark roast brand of beans you can recommend? I've also used curious roo and it didn't work great for me


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It's pretty simple to check it's not adjusted too far. Clean burrs, slowly adjust finer while it's running. Ideally the motor will slow down rather slightly at min setting. Stop immediately. No bean should ever need to be set that fine. With beans I have tried 2 just turn to dust and wont grind full stop. Never ever found a fresh roasted bean like that.

2 Sage grinders I have used. The BE had been calibrated perfectly. Rather glad I check the SGP - the burrs rubbed well over min setting - closer look- for some reason the burr wasn't at it's default setting - finer. Put it back to where it should have been and perfect again.

One setting coarser than where they just rub shouldn't slow the motor down at all. It runs a lot faster when it isn't grinding beans.

As the man in the video says - doesn't like fiddling with it. He mentions wear. Sage do too but reckon on rather a lot of beans.

Thanks to me I have seen a Sage engineer calibrate a BE grinder. I messed up the adjustment some how cleaning it. It needs to be in bits to do it as they do. The method means that some person in China may be having a bad day and calibrates them too coarse so there could be a need to adjust the burr. Earlier Sage grinders especially an old version of the SGP sometimes wouldn't adjust to espresso levels. That lead to loads of videos mentioning adjusting them what ever.

 I haven't check the engineers calibration on my BE but will before I sell it. For various reasons I haven't sold it yet. Unused for >18months.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

dragonguy1216 said:


> Is there a medium/dark roast brand of beans you can recommend?


 Crown and Canvas - First Light and Fazenda Zaroca.

LittleFin Roastery - El Fumo.

Altitude - Captain's Roast

These are some of my favourite coffees in the last six months, very easy to get right on my BE and taste great. They're also forum sponsors, you can use the forum discount code for C&C, LittleFin and Altitude (all found in the Discounts and Special Offers forum section) and it'll be cheaper for you.

My number one is probably George St Blend from Kiss The Hippo but that's more expensive. I'd say try the above first, see how you go, then treat yourself with Kiss The Hippo once you're more confident.

Read through @ajohn's post above about adjusting your top burr, you may not want to. It's possible I had a dodgy one, as he says it may have been set incorrectly. Sage told me needing to change it is a regular occurrence (which makes me wonder if they've set them wrong as a base line or lots get set incorrectly). It's also designed to be adjusted, it's got markings and writing on it for you to do so, so personally I think I'm right but ajohn knows a lot more about the technicalities of Sage machines, I'd listen to what he's saying. If in doubt go with him, you don't want to brick the machine.


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## dragonguy1216 (May 12, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> Crown and Canvas - First Light and Fazenda Zaroca.
> 
> LittleFin Roastery - El Fumo.
> 
> ...


 @CocoLocoGreat thank you! I'll give all this ago over the weekend and report back how I got on. Thanks for all the advice everyone


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## Jp55 (Aug 9, 2021)

dragonguy1216 said:


> Thanks DavecUK. I probably should have went into more detail, but thought I was already getting too longwinded. I normally do pull a blank shot of just hot water first to heat the machine up and clean any residue that might be there. I've also bought a calibrated tamper to help with that. But still not great espressos.


 I always heat the cup with hot water from the kettle, then pour away just before pressing brew


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