# First grinder



## Mark92 (Mar 30, 2020)

Hello,

I'm currently subscribed to a online coffee subscription which I get pre ground espresso coffee delivered. I'm now looking at getting a espresso grinder to use alongside my delonghi espresso machine (pressurised baskets). Im happy purchase second hand or look at hand grinders as I normally only make a couple of cups a day. Any options or recommendations would be great my budget would be upto £100.

This would be the first up purchase then in the next few months I'm hoping to get a second hand Gaggia Classic.

Thanks in advance.

Mark


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

£100 is very tight for an espresso grinder. Unless you find a used bargain.

For the Delonghi, any cheap burr grinder is enough, but for the Gaggia, you need something much better. The only new buy grinder anywhere near that price is the Iberital MC2, which is around the £130-150 range when in stock.


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## Mark92 (Mar 30, 2020)

Great thanks for your help. I think I will save up abit and go for something around the £200 price point as after doing some research I dont want to be upgrading again to quickly. I like the look of the Eureka Mignons, are there any others worth looking out for?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mark92 said:


> Great thanks for your help. I think I will save up abit and go for something around the £200 price point as after doing some research I dont want to be upgrading again to quickly. I like the look of the Eureka Mignons, are there any others worth looking out for?


As an entry level grinder, the Mignon is great. It will last forever and will give you many years of happiness. And then you can sell it on if you ever want to upgrade to something else in the future.

Avoid the mc2. The price might be attractive, but its shortcomings will quickly show and will set you on the upgrade path quicker than expected (and you'll lose money in the process).

Second hand is also a great option if you are on a tight budget.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Check the for sale thread in this forum.

You can get a second hand mazzer grinders, but they are quite big compared to the Mignon.

Or a second hand Mignon. Or manual grinders like the Feldgrind if that's your thing. Both of those will last you a lifetime and have good resale value.

Had a debate about entry level grinders here last night. Always buy the best you can afford, avoid unplanned upgrades.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/50938-sage-bambino-plus-only-drops-of-coffee-coming-through/?tab=comments#comment-730693

Good luck.


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## Mark92 (Mar 30, 2020)

Just read it and some very valid points unfortunatley if you want quality you have to pay for it if not understand the limitations of the equipment. I will keep and eye out and wait for a Eureka Mignon to come up thanks for your help.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mark92 said:


> Just read it and some very valid points unfortunatley if you want quality you have to pay for it if not understand the limitations of the equipment. I will keep and eye out and wait for a Eureka Mignon to come up thanks for your help.


Just to make it clear: there are better grinders than the Mignon. As I said, it's a great entry level grinder, will keep you happy for years, it's a doddle to adjust, dial in and clean, and will last forever.

On thing I learnt: it's always best to use your grinder as intended. Modifying it for single dose often does not work and you'll always be chasing the impossible.

Some people do have success modifying Mazzer Royal and Super Jolly (s) to be single dose. Using them as intended in an usual home environment is not sustainable. They are built like a tank, will last forever and can be bought second hand at very reasonable prices.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just to make it clear: there are better grinders than the Mignon. As I said, it's a great entry level grinder, will keep you happy for years, it's a doddle to adjust, dial in and clean, and will last forever.
> 
> On thing I learnt: it's always best to use your grinder as intended. Modifying it for single dose often does not work and you'll always be chasing the impossible.
> 
> Some people do have success modifying Mazzer Royal and Super Jolly (s) to be single dose. Using them as intended in an usual home environment is not sustainable. They are built like a tank, will last forever and can be bought second hand at very reasonable prices.


 'Modifying it for single dose' - Can I ask what that means when talking about a Mignon Manuale or Silenzio grinder? I get there's a hopper to fill up, but that's a choice right? Measuring 18g and putting that in each time...that's single dosing isn't it? Are you saying Eurekas don't like that?


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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

You should be able to buy a secondhand feldgrind2 or similar hand grinder. That is what i did. Make about 4 coffees a day, mainly filter but also espresso on my sage duo temp.

Hand grinder is smaller than a machine obviously so no loss of countertop and you can put everything away to keep tidy. No electricity usage or cost.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Finding ones the hard bit though ?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CocoLoco said:


> 'Modifying it for single dose' - Can I ask what that means when talking about a Mignon Manuale or Silenzio grinder? I get there's a hopper to fill up, but that's a choice right? Measuring 18g and putting that in each time...that's single dosing isn't it? Are you saying Eurekas don't like that?


I'm saying that you can do it, but it won't behave as you'd wished it did. Why? Hopper fed grinders have a chute, and grinds get compacted in the chute, to avoid static and to ensure an accurate-ish dose based on the timer.

Can't remember from memory, but I think the Mignon retains between 2g and 4g in the chute. This means that, on a dose of 18g ending up in your basket, without any purging, 4g (or 2g or whatever it is) will be from the previous grind.

In comparison the Niche, designed as single dose from the ground up, retains 0.2g or something like that.

Hence why I say it's best to use the grinder as designed by the manufacturer.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm saying that you can do it, but it won't behave as you'd wished it did. Why? Hopper fed grinders have a chute, and grinds get compacted in the chute, to avoid static and to ensure an accurate-ish dose based on the timer.
> 
> Can't remember from memory, but I think the Mignon retains between 2g and 4g in the chute. This means that, on a dose of 18g ending up in your basket, without any purging, 4g (or 2g or whatever it is) will be from the previous grind.
> 
> ...


 Aah I see. So that's OK if you're making several coffees quickly with a load of beans in hopper, but one/two a day singularly, and you're getting old grinds. If you just put 18g in, you're not getting 18g fresh out.

So that's why you pick the tool for job. Got it, thank you.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CocoLoco said:


> Aah I see. So that's OK if you're making several coffees quickly with a load of beans in hopper, but one/two a day singularly, and you're getting old grinds. If you just put 18g in, you're not getting 18g fresh out.
> So that's why you pick the tool for job. Got it, thank you.


Yes. Also, with a single dose grinder, it's easier to adjust for different beans. For instance, you can have a few beans in the go, and, as long as you remember the grind setting for that bean, it's easier to adjust it, also easier for change settings between brew methods - and no need to purge.

I do like the convenience of on demand grinders, but the low retention is one of the reasons I like the Niche.

The Baratza Sette is another option for hopper fed grinder with amazingly low retention. However, it's downfall is it's reliability track record.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yes. Also, with a single dose grinder, it's easier to adjust for different beans. For instance, you can have a few beans in the go, and, as long as you remember the grind setting for that bean, it's easier to adjust it, also easier for change settings between brew methods - and no need to purge.
> 
> I do like the convenience of on demand grinders, but the low retention is one of the reasons I like the Niche.
> 
> The Baratza Sette is another option for hopper fed grinder with amazingly low retention. However, it's downfall is it's reliability track record.


 I saw the Sette grinder on Whole Latte Love, they really liked it, but have also seen others on this forum say the same thing. It seems like I have 2 options, second hand to not 'risk' too much money, or just wait and get a Niche when ready. Is there any other single doser people on here like apart from the Niche (at a low price point?) My reasoning behind a Niche (apart from that it seems to suit how I make coffee) would that it would do me for the next machine next year too (probably Christmas 2021). It's good enough to be paired with a Minima or something like that. (That's even if I did upgrade, I may find a Niche and Sage BE are just fine).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yes. Also, with a single dose grinder, it's easier to adjust for different beans. For instance, you can have a few beans in the go, and, as long as you remember the grind setting for that bean, it's easier to adjust it, also easier for change settings between brew methods - and no need to purge.
> 
> I do like the convenience of on demand grinders, but the low retention is one of the reasons I like the Niche.
> 
> The Baratza Sette is another option for hopper fed grinder with amazingly low retention. However, it's downfall is it's reliability track record.


Unless you go hand grinder route, like a Feldgrind, you'll not find anything cheaper then the Niche for single dosing. Or you get a second hand Mazzer Royal or Super Jolly and adapt it for single dosing. But they are huge!


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Unless you go hand grinder route, like a Feldgrind, you'll not find anything cheaper then the Niche for single dosing. Or you get a second hand Mazzer Royal or Super Jolly and adapt it for single dosing. But they are huge!


 Yes those are like tanks, not sure I would get those unless the deal was crazy! Thanks for all your advice, I'm much clearer on the grinder market I was looking at now.


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## Skizz (Feb 10, 2020)

For what its worth, with your budget and longer term aspirations I think a hand grinder - C40 with RedClix mod, Feld 47 or 1Zpresso - would be your best starting point, with the Feld being possibly a bit easier to set the same each time due to the marked graduations as opposed to the C40 where you have to count the clicks.

They're more than capable of accurate and repeatable espresso grinds with different beans and roasts but will still be a useful tool to keep for pour over or Aeropress brews at home or away, even with a powered grinder on the worktop.


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## Mark92 (Mar 30, 2020)

With that in mind are there any other hand grinders worth considering as realistically I am only making a few cups of coffee a day so the hand grinder route may work well for me. Also apart from the manual aspect are there many other draw backs of a hand grinder such as quality of the grind?

Thanks for all the advice upto now as the comment above grinders make much more sense now especially regarding grind retention.


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## Mark92 (Mar 30, 2020)

Skizz said:


> For what its worth, with your budget and longer term aspirations I think a hand grinder - C40 with RedClix mod, Feld 47 or 1Zpresso - would be your best starting point, with the Feld being possibly a bit easier to set the same each time due to the marked graduations as opposed to the C40 where you have to count the clicks.
> 
> They're more than capable of accurate and repeatable espresso grinds with different beans and roasts but will still be a useful tool to keep for pour over or Aeropress brews at home or away, even with a powered grinder on the worktop.


 Sorry I posted a reply at the same time. I will look into the grinders listed thanks.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mark92 said:


> Sorry I posted a reply at the same time. I will look into the grinders listed thanks.


Kinu m47 a great grinder too.


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## vct (Apr 13, 2020)

Just wanted to add thanks for this info as I'm going through a similar thought process at the moment. Looks like a hand grinder is the way to go on a budget for single dosing. Thanks!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well that's depends. What hand grinder Kinu is around £220 I think


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## vct (Apr 13, 2020)

Sorry to hijack - in terms of the best value hand grinders for espresso is the Feld the better option given its stepless? The Kinu is out of my price range and the Comandante appears to need the red clix mod which adds another ~£40?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

The kinu is crazy money,

Ive just bought a 1zspresso jx pro

Great review here

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/11/21/1zpresso-jx-and-jx-pro-hand-grinders/

And here






I looked at loads the kinu is mega money, the made by knock same price and mainly out of stock,

So will see what its like when it turns up


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Got a Feld 2 never looked back. When was in Miami cough, was going to get a Kinu, I have two Rhino hand grinders one for Salt one for Pepper?


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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

> 13 minutes ago, Cuprajake said:
> 
> The kinu is crazy money,
> 
> ...


 Whilst looks of interest i would nearly always choose a UK developed and produced product over one from China. Supporting UK businesses, co2 footprint and so on.

Especially during these times also.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

He did he ordered from BB, I ordered mine from Taiwan The Q2 I got coming just to see what's it's like. Just like all the Lelit and Rockets and ACS stuff


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Your coffee uk grown ??

All for supporting uk business but when theres no stock, and its a potential inferior product, then its one of those.

They get rave reviews,


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## grumble (Mar 16, 2020)

But you can't buy a functionally almost identical product to coffee except made in the UK.

I get the point about stock but they do have some intermittently if you keep an eye out. Coming from HK right now does seem like an awful lot of extra CO2 and potential extra possibility of spreading infections.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well at least your not ordering anything. So all is well then.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

The only feld47 i found was over in germany at £189, made by knock had no stock, i did keep checking.

The kinu is us and €320

I bought mine as uk stock, from bella barista.

It does have bigger burr set than the made by knock, and i was really put off the handle on the feld


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

grumble said:


> But you can't buy a functionally almost identical product to coffee except made in the UK.
> 
> I get the point about stock but they do have some intermittently if you keep an eye out. Coming from HK right now does seem like an awful lot of extra CO2 and potential extra possibility of spreading infections.


 I dont get the extra co2 thing, really dont.

Unless you live on a hill in a house with eind generators, drink stream water and ride a bike everhwhere.

But thats a whole other debate haha


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## vct (Apr 13, 2020)

Ha - great, thank you! Second hand Feld or go for the JX pro then! Cheers!


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## grumble (Mar 16, 2020)

Cuprajake said:


> I dont get the extra co2 thing, really dont.
> 
> Unless you live on a hill in a house with eind generators, drink stream water and ride a bike everhwhere.
> 
> But thats a whole other debate haha


 Ah so unless you can be totally perfect in all spheres of life you should just not bother at all - not really sure about that logic.

In a capitalist society purchasing is one of the main ways we can influence the kind of world we want to live in. I'm not trying to have a go and I'm far from perfect but I'm trying to be more aware and apply my values to things that I do/buy more often. We are all going to have to change our habits because the way we live now is not sustainable with 7 billion people on the planet.

I don't know for sure but I would hazard an educated guess that CO2 issues aside a product made in the UK will involve better pay, working conditions, environmental standards, etc etc also btw. Where the MBK stuff falls down is that it seems support is a bit lacking so that might hamper repairability etc

But yes we are getting off topic I suppose.


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## Mark92 (Mar 30, 2020)

Cheers everyone for your help and advice on this. Ended up going for the Kinu M47 Phoenix which arrived from Germany within 3days! Great service. Didn't want to go down the cheaper hand grinder route and end up upgrading within a year and also liked the idea I could take it camping etc. Bought some cheap beans to get an idea of settings as I will be using it for espresso and aergrind, let the fun begin.


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## GriffGraff_91 (May 10, 2020)

Enjoy! I just bought a hand grinder and I love it!


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## little_rob (Jun 3, 2020)

Thanks for all the chat in this thread, really useful for a first-time-budget-grinder-shopper like myself. Going to watch out for a second hand (always my preference anyway) hand grinder.


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## pd53 (May 21, 2020)

What are the thoughts on Rhinowares home coffee grinder? Looks to be considerably cheaper than the suggestions that were previously made here. Is it a lot of hard work, or will it be sufficient for a complete beginner?

https://established.coffee/collections/kit/products/rhino-tall-hand-grinder


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pd53 said:


> What are the thoughts on Rhinowares home coffee grinder? Looks to be considerably cheaper than the suggestions that were previously made here. Is it a lot of hard work, or will it be sufficient for a complete beginner?
> 
> https://established.coffee/collections/kit/products/rhino-tall-hand-grinder


 What brew method will you be using?

Any of the ceramic burr grinders take a long time (relatively speaking) to grind a dose, so better for coarser grinds like manual drip (<20g doses), or smaller doses (~12g) for finer grinds.

It's not as ergonomic as a lot of other grinders, but works fine.


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## pd53 (May 21, 2020)

Gaggia Classic espresso machine


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pd53 said:


> Gaggia Classic espresso machine


 That''ll be rather effortful & demoralising whilst you're learning. May not grind fine enough for shorter ratios either.


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## Neo (Jun 24, 2008)

Mignon is like £300 ish I think

I don't know if WIlfa is good enough for espresso at all, probably not


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## Xabi17 (Jun 1, 2020)

Neo said:


> I don't know if WIlfa is good enough for espresso at all, probably not


 Apparently not


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Xabi17 said:


> Apparently not


 The Wilfa is not good enough for Espresso. It's a grinder designed for drip/french press etc. But it is really very good for those brew methods.


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## pd53 (May 21, 2020)

pd53 said:


> What are the thoughts on Rhinowares home coffee grinder? Looks to be considerably cheaper than the suggestions that were previously made here. Is it a lot of hard work, or will it be sufficient for a complete beginner?
> 
> https://established.coffee/collections/kit/products/rhino-tall-hand-grinder


 Is there much difference between this and the Hario Mini Mill Slim coffee grinder?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pd53 said:


> Is there much difference between this and the Hario Mini Mill Slim coffee grinder?


 Not really, the Mini Slim is a bit more ergonomic.


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