# Your definition of a Flat White



## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

*Your definition of a Flat White*​
Same as a latte but in a cup not a glass24.65%1oz shot, 6oz cup00.00%1 oz shot, 8 or 10oz cup00.00%Double shot, 6oz cup2660.47%Double shot, 8 or 10oz cup818.60%Something else (please explain)716.28%


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I'm sure this has been discussed on here before but the flat white continues to be the drink that confounds a single, consistent definition. How would you define it please (see poll)? I'm going to presume that there is always a thin head of microfoam... just enough to perform latte art and no more. If you disagree, please say


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## Sam__G (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm a double shot, 6oz kinda guy... To be honest, virtually every single drink seems to vary shop to shop.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Yep. The drink varies too much to give it a definition I think. I've had a flat white from three shops, Costa, The Store and Bewiched.

Costa's - triple ristretto in a small cup with thin, correctly steamed milk, no more than 5mm head on top. None of this bubbly messy "latte macchiato" milk.

The Store - Shots are standard in all drinks there, small cups always have 1 shot for capps or lattes, large two. A flat white is the appropriate shot, and milk steamed to the point it's literally flat, not one bit of froth.

Bewiched - Unsure of what shot was used, I need to investigate (Care to elaborate, Matt?







) but it was a sweet, microfoamed drink.

And if someone asked me for a flat white at home, I'd pull a single ristretto from an overdosed double basket, (instead of my normal double ristretto which I put in everything, hence the fact I'm up typing this at an unearthly hour of the morning ...) and top it with thickish, silkiest microfoamed milk possible.

My conclusion, who knows?!


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

My definition of a flat-white, is that it shares the overall volume of a cappuccino say 150-160ml, it also shares the espresso component being around 1/3, the foam however I don't belive has to be majorly thin, just anywhere less than 1/3 of the total volume and I am happy with the title flat-white, I usually aim for around 10 to 12millimetres in a 150ml drink.

I don't know whether a Flat-White purist would disagree or not but this is how I define it and enjoy it best. I also struggle to pour latte art with any less as I find when I have very thin microfoam to pour, the milk rolls up the far wall of the cup and warps the base end of the pattern, I try pouring more gently but it can be tricky then to drive it through very thick crema.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Well what do you know mike, we are for once, not the only two fools still on here at 2am!


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Oh, by the way, I lost my first prized d'Ancap 150ml cup to the travertine floor today, I have been guarding them like my babies since I got them, warning everyone I present a coffee to in one that they are my very special cups so please take care not to leave them lying around where they could get broken and when finished to leave them on my bar for me to wash up, today after my brother had finished his flat-white and put it on the bar, i washed it and was on my way back to the bar drying it, whoops... SMASH!!

On a brighter note, my brother has actually asked me to teach him about coffee!


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I lived in Sydney for a few months last year, and flat whites varied there in the amount of foam, but were almost invariably double shot in 6oz.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Having lived in Oz for 17yrs, working for a Kiwi it was probably the closest I got to the birthplace of the flat white (land of the long white cloud)








Flat whites there can be single or double (very often single) shots, with steamed milk and no more than 5mm of foam on top. Any more foam and it was a piccolo latte.

Served with shortcake teddy or biscotti and iced water - mmmmmmmm


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

I've been going to Milk Bar in Soho recently as it's close to work and their flat white seems to be pretty much spot on the 6oz cup with a double shot and a small amount of foam. I'm not 100% about the double shot but it tastes quite strong so I'd guess that's what it is.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Double shot, 6oz.

Though whether i end up with a cappuccino or flat white can be somewhat down to chance lol.


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

A flat white for me is usually a failed latte!







Still can't get the hang of this milk thing! Haha


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## wastedhours (Jan 2, 2012)

Basically, if I put the milk in and the top's still brown, it's a flat white


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## onemac (Dec 15, 2011)

As I practice daily for that elusive shot of espresso I end up steaming some milk and dumping everything into one cup (well, usually a mug). How many shots actually go into the 'flat white' depends on how close I get with the espresso but I usually end up with two vessels - one containing very dark brown liquid and the other loses its bubbles very quickly when I stir them in.....










Al


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

for me, the size doesn't matter. A flat white means very little microfoam - maybe a few mm. Enough to do a small heart, but not enough for big latte art. Whilst I personally prefer 6oz drinks, that's not in my definition - simply - little foam: flat white, moderate foam: latte, lots of foam: cappucino. So whether I make someone a flat white in a 6oz cup or a 10oz cup doesn't matter - they're both flat whites. Small drinks (close to 1:1 espresso:milk ratio) are the exception - cortado or macchiatto depending upon amount of foam. But it's all totally arbitrary - just make sure you're consistent with yourself and can tell the person drinking it what your definition is.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

At home I do them in slightly larger sized cup than our cappas, maybe slightly less foam - though most of the time I dont bother to differ the approach to steaming, cant be arsed.

When out and about I would expect 6oz, double , 5mm foam


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

There seems to be one fairly clear preference so far. Cheers.


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

For me it's a brewed mug of coffee with about 25% hot milk added although I normally micro foam it.


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

marbeaux said:


> For me it's a brewed mug of coffee with about 25% hot milk added although I normally micro foam it.


Brewed coffee... controversial

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

lucky13 said:


> Brewed coffee... controversial
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk


Why, may I ask?

That's how I like my coffee and answers the last question in the poll as requested.









Of course I now know from searching that the Ozzies say they invented it using one shot of coffee but in my opinion my cuppa tastes better:cool:


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## wastedhours (Jan 2, 2012)

Isn't the lack of crema a bit difficult?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Really interesting that out of 20 responses so far nobody has voted for the single shot options. So the flat white is associated with being a strong drink...


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## wastedhours (Jan 2, 2012)

That for me is the only really consistent thing I've found with the flat white: that it's a strong, micro-foamy drink.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

In my opinion it is a drink that is intended to be good on the move or if you want to have a few without feeling too bloated or caffeinated! Stronger than a latte and doesn't leave you feeling heavy as it has less milk, and weaker than a macchiato/cortado.

Tinderbox for example, describe it as a short, sharp drink, and use a double ristretto in a 5-6oz glass.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Costa's flat white has enough caffeine to keep you up for the next week I've discovered!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

How much ?


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm not sure how much exactly, but whenever I drink one, the buzz is quite a bit ... There was some research done a while ago, I think it was something like 157mg of caffeine in "a cup of coffee". So it's certainly a lot. Especially if that grind is slow!


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

What size of cup do you serve a flat white in James? The last time I got one in Costa (which was around a year ago I reckon) it looked to be at least 10oz and it was very weak and very foamy. That doesn't sound like what you're describing so maybe I just got a bum deal.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

My idea of a flat white is a double ristretto, topped up with milk, just enough foam that you could perform latte art (my flat whites generally have a blob which I guess could be described as modern art!) served in a 6oz cup.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I'm reminded of this clip:

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/watch?v=kLFSGiX_A_U


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

marbeaux said:


> Why, may I ask?
> 
> That's how I like my coffee and answers the last question in the poll as requested.
> 
> ...


Controversial because the one thing people seem to agree on is that it's made with espresso rather than brewed coffee. But as long as you love it who gives a damn!

My definition of a flat white is STRONG, with a little bit of milk. 3oz of espresso 3 oz of milk, something like that. A drink of that deffinition has the taste of espresso but lasts a little longer, makes it ideal for social drinks... stops me drinking 4 doubles and spending the afternoon bouncing of the walls and talking garbage!


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## valkjr (Feb 17, 2012)

Being a Wellington girl, I am still looking for the perfect flat white in London. It should be a double shot in a 6oz (it makes me cringe when I get asked if I would like a regular or large) with minimal foam on the top.


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## golden1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Double shot (or Triple ristreto), 6oz of correctly foamed milk.

in this case correctly foamed meaning ALL microfoam, no macrofoam, no unfoamed milk.

The idea being that you end up with a "thick" consistency coffee. or atleast one that stays as "coffee flavored microfoam" unitl after it's in your mouth.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

The common trait in the best flat whites I have made and consumed elsewhere as well is that they have well blended microfoam. There are no dry bubbles like you see in cappuccinos, and often when you get to the end of the drink the latte art is still visible (if you have poured it that is... Latte Art alone does not make a drink a flat white!)

Flat whites are more dense drinks than cappuccinos but lighter than a latte when weighed.

Double shot in a 6oz cup is pretty standard.

It's not uncommon to be served a double ristretto as the base


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Flat whites are more dense drinks than cappuccinos but lighter than a latte when weighed.


Thanks Glenn. Follow-up clarification questions! I understand 'more dense than cappuccino' because the flat white has less air, but when you say lighter than latte do you mean purely because it's a smaller drink?


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi all, I know this is an old post but I really wanted to put my 10 pence worth in and I've been away a while so here goes.

A double shot of espresso with creamy full fat micro foamed milk in a 6 oz cup.

The drink they serve in Costa is most definitely not a flat white in fact it could hardly called coffee at all.

Hope you are all well.

Andy

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

1 vote for Something else = I may be alone on this one, but a flat white to me is 30% espresso 70% steamed milk (Triple in an 10oz mug







 ) with the bare minimum foam/froth of any description, i love the flat clean taste of the milk and coffee and if just right has a lovely creamy but powerful flavour, the foam never infuses with the espresso enough not to make it a slight distraction form the main event.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Let's keep this Zombie going!









For me a flat white is a stronger drink than a latte. Can be cappuccino strength but with microfoam rather than thick foam. Double shot in 6oz works for me. Although my version is usually a double shot minus a few slurps







in 5oz


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

tribs said:


> Let's keep this Zombie going!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1

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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

I like a flat white to be exatly that - flat - completely flat. Not even microfoam on top.

My Aeropress flat white is half a cup of coffee and half a cup of hot milk.

I prefer to heat the milk in the microwave (not letting it boil or burn of course) and aeropress my coffee in. The result is a pretty heavy, but creamy cup of coffee without any foam of bubbles. I think the lack of texture in the milk allows the coffee flavours and taste to be better appreciated in milk.

Most coffee shops' "latte" to me is really just half way between a flat white and a capa. Both of which I now find the microfoam texture dulls the taste experience for me now. I don't use the steamer on my espresso machine ever now.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

tend to agree with Milesey:

By definition, a Flat White should be just that: Hot milk without any foam / bubble / etc + espresso (single, double, whatever)

QED


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