# New member with a dead La Pavoni EPL



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Hello forum,

We have a 14 yr old La Pavoni EPL (see photo) that has recently packed in.

Issue is (I think) with the switches on the front which I think have shorted out.

I can replace these myself for about a tenner, or send it off for a service for about £60 or so, but I was wondering whether it was time to get a new machine, and was thinking of getting a Rancilio Silvia...

The reality of it is that for the £390 I might be about to spend on the Silvia, I could get the old La Pavoni fixed, and maybe buy a grinder instead, because in researching this on here and other forums I see that using the Tesco Lavazza is NOT GOOD.

So should we retire the La Pavoni and start afresh, or is it worth saving? I should note that we have never treated it well, it is rarely cleaned out and has only been serviced once, in 2011.

Robert


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

(I'm wondering if I've maybe posted this in the wrong part of the forum?)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Thread moved.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

I am not one for usually advocating on machinery...but if you can fix the machine for a tenner, and source the 'service items' for a reasonable amount, then I would say do that. Spend the savings on a grinder (Mignon maybe?) and from there consider your future route on coffee machine. If you fixed it up good there will probably be some interest in it in the future for resale, giving you a leg up. That said I know nothing about your La Pavoni EPL - but it looks very much like a Gaggia Classic in a different casing.

Am sure others here will be prepared to proffer advice too.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Thanks, I'm thinking we'll probably end up with a grinder by and by, whichever machine we end up with. From what I've been able to find out about the EPL it's part of their "eurobar" range, and was possibly made by Saeco, but that's based on thin evidence.

I was wondering what the life expectancy of these kind of machines is. Is fourteen years a good innings, or should it keep going for another twenty?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I reckon it's done quite well considering its basically just been used and not really serviced or descaled regularly to be fair. But then there are some fairly old Gaggia Classics around that have had new solenoid valves, gaskets and seals etc that run and run after a service or refurb. If you can fix it for a tenner, £380 will get you a very respectable grinder off the for sale section of this forum. That's used Eureka Zenith 65E, Mazzer Major kind of territory.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

I'd probably send it for repair/service, would run to about £70+/- maybe?


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Reading up on the Silvia I'm a bit concerned that it seems to take a long time to be ready? My partner makes herself a coffee every morning and I'm guessing if she needs to be taking more than ten minutes over it that's not going to be acceptable...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

rdpx said:


> Reading up on the Silvia I'm a bit concerned that it seems to take a long time to be ready? My partner makes herself a coffee every morning and I'm guessing if she needs to be taking more than ten minutes over it that's not going to be acceptable...


Most machines take 20-30 minutes for the group to get up to temp . Unless your looking at one of the sage machines which have a different group .

Some machines you can put on a timer plug but the Silvia doesn't auto refill this this might not be a great option


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

The "ready" light on the (broken) La Pavoni we use comes on pretty fast. Now whilst I am happy to wait half an hour with a new Silvia, my partner needs coffee fairly quickly in her morning routine and I don't think she'd react well to being told she needs to add twenty minutes to it!

I'm guessing that we haven't been using the current machine to it's best ability, but she's happy with what she's been drinking from it, and she is the main user really.

I actually put in an order for a Silvia this afternoon, maybe I need to put a hold on it before it gets posted out so I can weigh it up a bit more carefully...


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

(Current thinking is I should maybe just repair the old LP and get a tamper and a grinder, which should drastically improve things, but now I need to go sleep on it!)


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Question:

If I turn on the Silvia, and pull a coffee after just ten minutes, will it be awful, or just not the best it can be?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

rdpx said:


> Question:
> 
> If I turn on the Silvia, and pull a coffee after just ten minutes, will it be awful, or just not the best it can be?


In my experience it won't be good . The group will nit be up to temp- low temp- sour coffee .

If you want a machine ready in ten minutes this one ain't the one for you . Look at the sage machines


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Silvia isn't a plug and play machine even when up to

To temp it needs " temp surfing "

To get it right . Honestly look at other machines the Silvia is over priced for its features . I don't know want the attraction of it is nowadays ( yes I previously owned one )


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Hmm. Food for thought indeed. So if that's what we've been doing with the EPL, does that mean we're not doing it right with that machine either?

I really appreciate the help, by the way.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Honestly without a tamper and a grinders can't really comment on the coffee

Your making .


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Honestly without a tamper and a grinders can't really comment on the coffee
> 
> Your making .


Which is why I am thinking I should fix the machine I've got, and learn to use it properly before trading up?

A new machine is still tempting though!


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

For fast coffee when I don't want to wait for the Alex to warm up, if it's off for routine cleaning routine or maybe those occasions if I'm up during the night I use my moka pot. Handy for travelling too but you do need a gas hob and in some cases a trivet.

I'm full of admiration for my Ikea Radig which is stable, doesn't spit everywhere, pours well and good quality stainless steel so can take dishwasher too without a superficial chrome finish unlike some. I'm amazed by how good it is.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Problem solved.

I cancelled the Rancilio order.

The EPL is off to Glasgow to be serviced.

When its all back and happy we are going to get a decent grinder - probably a Mignon.

I have realised today the EPL uses pressurised portafilters, but it seems I can source a non-pressurised Saeco replacement for about £50 from an eBay seller in Cyprus, of all places.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

£50 seems excessive for a basket. Is it an unusual or unique fitment? Just asking as it may well be. But a "bog standard" basket that fits a Gaggia or E61 portafilter handle only costs about £5 and you can get a VST for 20-ish. You may only need a basket, not the whole portafilter handle, but that depends on the fitment. For example before I got a classic, I had a Delonghi machine with pressurised baskets but realised that my previous crap Krups thing had unpressurised baskets that fitted straight in.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

I agree £50 is an expensive sounding basket, I still think this might be some variant of the Gaggia Classic (especially since the name Saeco crept in somewhere). I have some Classic baskets that I will happily send you to prove that the £5 figure above is reasonable. Lovely as Cyprus might be you have solutions closer to your doorstep I think.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Thanks to both of you, but the baskets are normal (except 53mm) and the pressurised bit is built into the portafilter handle itself. It's part of the La Pavoni "Eurobar" series of machines, here is a link to the entire replacement portafilter where it mentions it is made by Saeco:

http://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/gb/La-Pavoni-Eurobar-Pressurised-Filter-Handle-with-Double-Filter-Basket/m-2326.aspx

I opened it all up and cleaned it out today. It was truly filthy with five years of oozing slime. For anyone interested here is a video of a man opening one up to show the pressure mech inside [starts at 5:30]:











Seems a company in Seattle had some non-p ones made up, and I wonder if the guy in Cyprus is selling these?

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/non-pressurized-portafilter-upgrade-for-saeco-and-starbucks-espresso-machines

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Non-Pressurized-Portafilter-Upgrade-for-Saeco-and-Starbucks-Espresso-Machines-/191924621234?hash=item2caf994fb2:g:gW0AAOSwbsBXi0CS

Also found this one which I imagine will also fit, and is cheaper (though bottomless)

http://www.machina-espresso.co.uk/products/53mm-bottomless-naked-portafilter-la-spaziale


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Cheers for the video. I can see what you mean - very complicated PF handle! Mr Parts Guru is good at explaining and he's obviously a big fan of pressurised baskets for home use. But of course that's cos he's not using time and weights to inform grind and suchlike - the average user won't have a suitable grinder and probably just wants an easy coffee with whatever ground coffee they've bought. He's right - our way is a faff and the kit expensive, but it tastes much better. So even the loose unpressurised handle and standard basket is £50. Yeah, no surprise really but it does explain why you have to pay so much - the whole handle is needed.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

The Espresso Shop in Glasgow who are going to service the machine also sell a La Spaziale 53mm bottomless PF (only £25) so I'll ask them to see if it fits when they have it.

I would rather have one with a double spout, as I think it might be easier, but £25 is a strong argument.

I'm having visions of coffee/water spraying everywhere out of a bottomless filter...


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## Zagato (Jul 24, 2016)

Please do update us when you get it back.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Zagato said:


> Please do update us when you get it back.


Well, it has arrived back and after full service and replacing the switches, it now doesn't work properly at all.

What used to happen was that you turned it on and when it was at temperature to make coffee the light on the "make coffee" switch came on. So you pressed the switch and made a coffee. The third switch below that was for steam, which you pressed to on if you wanted it to heat to steam.

Now when you switch it on the "make coffee" switch lights up at the same time and if you leave it for a few minutes the "steam" switch lights up and steam starts coming out of the group head.

I suppose that there is a perfect moment to pull a shot, but you have to guess where it is.

The shop has said that the new switches have four prongs as opposed to the old three prong switches, so it was hard to work out how to wire it up. They also claimed to have tested it and said that it made a fine espresso.

They have offered for me to send it back up to them in Glasgow for them to have another try, but I am not sure how much confidence I have in them now.

The guy also asked how old it was and when I said 14 years suggested that maybe it was time to retire it, which was kind of annoying seeing as when I first called them up it was to ask whether it was worth having a 14 year old machine fixed, and they said that it should run for years....

My partner seems to be happy with using it as it is, but I tried to make a couple of shots and they were not good so I don;t want to use it. Saying that it is she who uses it most of the time anyway, and I only started getting interested in making decent coffee after looking into replacing/fixing this one.

Not a particularly happy customer.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I would be tempted to send it back there are easy to find wiring diagrams of both the older and newer pavs on tinterweb for them to use to get it correct - other members will know if its a simple fix so hang on for a day or two


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

He said on the phone that there are no wiring diagrams for it...

I'm pretty sure it is a simple fix for anyone who knows how to wire these things up. Not sure how the 4 not 3 prong switches complicates matters though...


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Full refund and apologies.

Still no working coffee machine, but I am at least much happier with the shop.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

My apologies - there are no wiring diagrams online - however as the repairer is a authorised repairer you would think that pavon I would be able to supply the diagram and information.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> My apologies - there are no wiring diagrams online - however as the repairer is a authorised repairer you would think that pavon I would be able to supply the diagram and information.


Yep - it's a hard machine to find any info on.

I dug this up after a lot of searching. No wiring diagrams but it does say how it is supposed to operate, maybe this will be useful to anyone searching for info on this machine sometime.

I think they have wired it up so that only the steam thermostat is in the loop.

http://www.lapavoni.it/PDF/MAN_EspressoPlus.pdf


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

So what's the plan? Try and fix it up or aim for something either newer or more mainstream?


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Missy said:


> So what's the plan? Try and fix it up or aim for something either newer or more mainstream?


Well, there is a guy selling another one the same on eBay who is very close by, with no bids at £90. I have sent him a message to see if he would be willing to take a very low offer on it and then I would take the switches off it and make ours work, or maybe just put the new seals into that one. He has just come back to me saying he doesn't want to accept less than that and would rather give it to a friend, which is fair enough.

I have no idea what a fair price would be, but £90 is more than it is worth to me. I was thinking closer to £50, which is a lot considering I really only want the three switches!

Thing is that in researching it I have found it's actually not that great a machine - pressurised PFs etc. So we will probably get a "proper" one at some point in the future. Maybe a Europiccola or a Silvia? The plan had been to keep using this one for the time being and spend the money on a Mignon, but unless I can get it working properly there seems little point in that, and budget doesn't stretch to getting a grinder *and* a new coffee machine.

I'd currently jump all over that Europiccola for £120 if it hadn't sold in the FS section last week!

R


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

For around £300 you could get a classic and a super jolly from here...


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