# Gaggia Classic pump tripping electrics



## Sheridan (Mar 17, 2016)

Hi All,

I'm new to the forums and looking for some assistance please









I have a gaggia classic and recently I've moved house. In the old place I had no issues with the machine at all. The machine was moved carefully and separately to our main move. Since setting the machine up in the new place the machine has been intermittently tripping the RCBO on the fuse board.

When first switched on and warming up the unit is fine and does not trip. When pulling a shot or flushing water through the unit, this will often trip the RCBO. It seems to be the operation of the pump rather than the heating elements causing the trip.

The trips have been anything from a couple of seconds into pump operation to 20 seconds, or sometimes no trip at all.

My searches of previous threads mainly talk about earth leakage due to damaged (or wet) elements but I don't think that's the problem here as the machine will happily sit keeping warm with the elements switching in and out.

Ive tried the machine on a different circuit with the same results. The kitchen sockets circuit has very little other load on it when I've been using the machine. Next on the list is to try in a different house to see if it's a machine fault or a quirk of the electrics in the new place. Can anyone offer any advice?

Thank you


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

There was another thread where a classic was tripping the electrics...i'll see if I can find it but look in gaggia forum


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17547-Gaggia-Classic-Electrics-Issue&highlight=gaggia+tripping

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28698-Gaggia-Classic-Tripping-the-Main-Fuse-Box&highlight=gaggia+tripping


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## Sheridan (Mar 17, 2016)

Hi, thanks for the pointers. I've had a look inside the machine as advised in the other threads and there's no sign of any water leaks or electrical shorts. I don't expect it's an issue with moisture in the elements either, as it runs just fine with the elements heating up, it's only when the pump is on that it trips. I wonder if anyone else can make any suggestions? Also going to seek some advice from a friend who's an electrician regarding the RCBO in question.

Thanks again


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Well - looking at it logically...

There are two components that are electrical that have power applied to them when the brew switch is thrown (that aren't powered when the machine is sat warming up).

1. Pump

2. Solenoid of 3 way valve.

I'm assuming that the mains is tripping because one of these is throwing 240V to earth.

You can run the pump without having the solenoid valve engaged (I think), by switching the steam switch on, and then opening the steam valve and then hitting the brew button. This is what you'd normally do in order to get hot water out of the steam wand. Give it a go, and pump for a while and see what happens.

If, in doing this, nothing at all happens (other than the machine working fine, and water being pumped out of the steam wand) then you may well be able to assume that it's the solenoid playing up. I guess there's a chance that if the coil is doing something odd, it could earth out - it's all metal bits anyway!

However if, in doing this, the mains still trips - then it's more likely to be the pump doing something odd. However, the pump is sat on rubber mounts and I'd struggle to see how it could zap 240V to earth.

Worth doing the above test and seeing what happens and then reporting back. Might help, might not. I'd be looking very closely for water leaks anywhere, and dodgy wires close to the case also.


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

This could be a problem with the switch or solenoid that is energised when you turn the pump on. Possibly moisture in the switch?

Heres the science....RCBO's detect the imbalance of current between live and neutral so for example, a voltage leakage before the load would give a higher current to live in respect to neutral. Your old house may not have had RCBO's as protection. Maybe just fuses. RCDs work in the same way but RCBO's also work as overload devices. (Its like having a RCD and MCB together)

The only way to check it would be to get your electrician mate to insulation test/ PAT test the machine. He should have the right test equipment to discover where the fault is.

PS, Im an ex RAF electrical engineer, not a domestic electrician so this is just my understanding. Hope this helps.


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## Andrewb (Mar 14, 2016)

I have repaired a number of Gaggia Classics. I have had two, that had a leak in the form of a very fine jet out of the elbow on the top of the pump. The only way I spotted it was running with the cover off (do at you own risk).

If your near Bromsgrove I have a spare pump you could try if you suspect it the pump itself.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

An RCBO works as an MCB (Minature Circuit Breaker). In this mode of operation it is designed to interrupt a current overload in a circuit.

It also works in a similar way to an RCD measuring the current on the live and neutral conductors. If they are not equal it suggests there is current leakage to earth, which could potentially be fatal if it is you that is connected.

The often seen additional functional earth wire seen on RCBO's is there to maintain the safe operating capability in the event of a neutral fault

What needs to be determined then is which function of the RCBO is causing it to trip?

From experience and by your use of the intermittent comment I find myself thinking that whatever the issue is the fault current is small enough to be borderline.

Dampness will obviously create a fault condition. Temperature too might have some effect although I would expect the tripping to decrease with greater temperature

My first advice though is to unplug and at both ends of the cable ensure that the connections are tight (at the plug if it is not the bonded on type and at the machine where the cable is terminated by either push connectors or into a terminal block)

I don't know the machine so please describe how the pump is mounted and what it is made of. if the mounts are rubber and the pipework connections are plastic it is hard to see how it can leak current to earth.


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## Sheridan (Mar 17, 2016)

Hi all, thought I'd do a quick update, I've managed to solve my problem. I tried MrShade's suggestion of operating the pump without engaging the solenoid I.e. dispensing hot water. Ran the pump several times like this and never any tripping. Took the solenoid out and it wasn't in the best condition, quite a bit of corrosion in the magnet. Decided to order a new solenoid, fitted it and no more tripping! Can only assume that there was some short circuiting or current jumping to earth in the solenoid. Thanks for all the suggestions, I appreciate the time you guys took to respond


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

What a great outcome.

Thank you to all who helped a new member


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Good stuff - glad my suggestion proved fruitful and you're back making good coffee!


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