# New Member - Espresso Kit Minefield



## HampshireMark (Nov 7, 2021)

Morning All

New member to the forum and yep I have been lurking for a while 😀

So&#8230;. I want to start my journey into espresso but where to start. I currently own a Nespresso machine and whilst convenient and ok for lattes cappuccinos etc it's damn awful for Espresso, very bitter and harsh. I'm sure this can be improved as well as milk based recipes by venturing into true home barista grade kit?

I have a healthy budget up to £1500 which would be for the machine and grinder also happy to buy second hand. What would be 3 solid recommendations on machines and grinders to start looking at please?

Thanks in advance

Mark


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## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

You can't go wrong with a niche for the grinder. Great workflow, solid, and unlikely that you'll need to upgrade in the future (unless you want to try flat burrs). https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-zero?variant=31208685174915 £499, so that leaves £1k for your espresso machine.

An espresso machine is a bit trickier. How many drinks do you make a day, what type, how many in a row etc. These will all affect the compromises that you need to balance.

I went for the rancilio silvia, which is a single boulder dual use machine ( i.e. one boiler that you have to heat up for streaming). I'm the only person in the house that drinks coffee though, and I only make one flat white a day. Based on this the slower workflow is fine for me, and it saves on energy as I'm only heating one lot of water (vs a double boiler machine). I also like tinkering, and this is perfect for that as it's easy to work on and all the parts are available. I've already added a pid and later in the year plan to add flow profiling. Plus I like looks. It's pretty slow though if you're doing multiple milk drinks in a row.

Lelit MaraX seems to get good reports if you want a heat exchanger machine (£999), or if you can stretch a bit the ACS minima is well regarded for a dual boiler £1279.

The key is to try identify what you want from a machine and then find what fits you. I don't think there's a perfect machine for everyone.

Good luck


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Dual boiler machine will be best for stability.

Usual recommendations

Mara x

Acs minima

Elizabeth

Used grinder for best bang for buck.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@HampshireMark Welcome to the forum Mark...I would suggest classifieds as a great place to start if searching for used equipment

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

HampshireMark said:


> Morning All
> 
> New member to the forum and yep I have been lurking for a while 😀
> 
> ...


 Hi Mark, welcome to the forum. We can definitely help you spending your money. One of the specialties of this forum. 😉

so there are a few things you have to consider, and understand the machine and grinder alone will not make you good coffee. In order to achieve this, you need some accessories, good water and good coffee. In reverse order of importance.

Accessories: you'll need a tamper and a milk jug. Some machines come with a good tamper.

coffee: consider spending at least £6 per 250g as a bare minimum. You get better prices with 500g or 1kg bags. Some roasters include postage "for free" after a certain amount spent. Also, consider buying freshly roasted coffee. Plenty of those in the Uk.

water: you don't want to spend your healthy budget and, after 6 months, your machine starts malfunctioning, just to find out it's completely scaled up. I'm assuming you live in Hampshire, so likely the water is very hard. You need to make sure the water you out inside your machine does not scale at such high temperatures inside the boilers, or at least avoid scale for a long time. I personally distil the water and remineralise without any scaling minerals. But this is not for everyone. Some use bottled water Tesco Ashbeck or Waitrose Lockhills, or Volvic - but it will scale eventually. Or buy an Osmio Zero, and your machine - and your finances - will thank you on the long run.

Coffee machines and grinder:

- are you considering second hand? Take a look at the classifieds.
- as for new machines: Lelit Elizabeth, the ACS Minima, the Lelit MaraX. 
- grinders: Niche Zero, Eureka Mignon.

the selection above might go over your budget. Personally, I would stay away from traditional HX machines. The MaraX is the only one I'd consider with that architecture.

take your time and peruse this: https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com

it has all the information with regards to helping you making a decision when choosing a machine.


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## HampshireMark (Nov 7, 2021)

Thanks all for the responses&#8230;. Super helpful. So some of my requirements would be as follows I don't know if this would change the recommendations

1. I will be making an espresso first thing, a cappuccino dinner time and a round of 4/6 milk based drinks in the evening for the family

2. I would like to control the frothing milk temperature independent of the brew temperature as I find with a Nespresso machine that the drinks are not very hot

3. stable pressure 9 bars not over like some machines I've seen reviewed

4. Quick start up time

5. simple to maintain, simple to use

6. don't need to mod to get great espresso

Thanks Again

Mark


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

Without getting a used machine, it will be difficult to stay within your budget and meet all your requirements, once including a suitable water treatment solution (such as the Osmio Zero).

Without any special deal, the water system will cost you £400+ and coffee grinder will cost you £400+ (Niche or Solo Grinder). Of course you could differ the first cost by buying suitable bottled water, but it will cost you more in the long run.

If you do quite a few milk drinks, a double boiler (or -in a pinch- a Mara X) will be best (no need to wait for steam to heat up, or cool down).

This leaves you with the Lelit Elizabeth, ACS Minima and Lelit Mara X, with the Breville/Sage double boiler as a possible alternative (knowing that it's built like a standard appliance rather than a traditional Italian coffee machine, but that it otherwise feature rich).

If you value start-up time, easy maintenance and ease of use out of the box, the Elizabeth is probably the most logical choice.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Eiffel said:


> Of course you could differ the first cost by buying suitable bottled water, but it will cost you more in the long run.


 Or you could distil. A distiller will cost you approx. £60.


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## HampshireMark (Nov 7, 2021)

Thanks again. I will check out those machines and grinders. And look at water

I am correct that an espresso machine will produce far better than a Nespresso machine&#8230;. Right?

Thanks

Mark


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

HampshireMark said:


> Quick start up time


 Elizabeth it is. Or Profitec-300, or Rancilio Silvia Pro, but can't recommend them as I never seen or used them.

or, use a smart plug to turn your machine on/off.



HampshireMark said:


> simple to maintain, simple to use


 Minima is easy to maintain, simple to use, but not a fast heat up time. The MaraX requires you to disassemble the cam lever every month or so and lube it.

Elizabeth I reckon will tick all of your boxes. It can certainly cope with multiple coffees and milk steamed in a row too. There was a member here who has one and made coffee for the whole family in the morning with the Elizabeth.

pits very easy to use too, and it's fully reviewed on the link I posted. And there's a massive long running thread on that machine here.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

HampshireMark said:


> Nespresso machine&#8230;. Right


 How dare you even asking the question! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yes. Providing the coffee you put in is not rubbish, as per my initial reply to you.


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## HampshireMark (Nov 7, 2021)

Apologies on using the N word&#8230;.. Noted 🤣


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

HampshireMark said:


> I am correct that an espresso machine will produce far better than a Nespresso machine&#8230;. Right?


 I think the answer to this question is yes, if...

For many people here coffee is a hobby. It requires continuous attention: having fresh beans (but not too fresh), dialling in properly, keeping the equipment clean to avoid off-tastes, keeping the water right to avoid scale and damage to the machine...

As you said it is important to you that the machine is easy to use and maintain, and doesn't need to be modded, and as you are coming from a current set up that is pop-in a capsule, press a button, drink and forget about it, I think you should ask yourself if you want a new hobby, or if you just expect to drop £1,500 and that the money alone will give you a significant upgrade over a Nespresso system.

If you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn and do all the things described above - then of course you can get far better result than Nespresso. We would all be rather stupid otherwise, lol.


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## HampshireMark (Nov 7, 2021)

Cheers Doram&#8230;.. Yes I am looking for a new hobby 😄 and appreciate it requires effort to achieve great results&#8230;. But isn't that the good part 😉


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

HampshireMark said:


> Cheers Doram&#8230;.. Yes I am looking for a new hobby 😄 and appreciate it requires effort to achieve great results&#8230;. But isn't that the good part 😉


 It is the good part......especially if, like me, you want to enjoy it as a hobby


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@MediumRoastSteam do you do anything else with it once it is distilled?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Uncletits said:


> @MediumRoastSteam do you do anything else with it once it is distilled?


 I do. Check my signature.  - these days I'm using 119mg of potassium bicarbonate per litre of distilled water.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Check my signature.


 Your signature might be due an update. 😉


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

@MediumRoastSteam have you documented your routine anywhere? - looking to do something better with my water and counter space is at a premium


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Uncletits said:


> @MediumRoastSteam have you documented your routine anywhere? - looking to do something better with my water and counter space is at a premium


 ??? Distill water + add whatever in the appropriate amount to hit the desired alkalinity and hardness or just alkalinity by using NaHCO3 or KHCO3, or a mix of the two to keep sodium down to around 10mg/l. Honestly you can use a glass or plastic (shudder) collection jug or do what I did and get a big 4 litre thick glass demijohn with a flip top lid...I can't remember why I did that when I could just get a glass 4 litre container to sit under the distiller but there you go. Horror stories on amazon probably put me off. The water calculator in the coffee lounge has a page on in it for calculating remineralisation.



HampshireMark said:


> Thanks again. I will check out those machines and grinders. And look at water
> 
> I am correct that an espresso machine will produce far better than a Nespresso machine&#8230;. Right?
> 
> ...


 It depends on the coffee you put into the machine and also whether or not you mess up along the way. There's a learning curve. I was impressed by the nespresso I had in a hotel once but it's incredibly expensive for what it is and it's not close to espresso, more like a foamed/whipped filter coffee. I'm surprised your experience of it is that it's bitter as I enjoyed the different capsules and was pleasantly surprised by how different the pods were from each other. Maybe your machine needs cleaning, or maybe you're just stopping the shot early trying to get espresso out of it and end up under extracting? The coffee I got out of was about 90ml as a minimum iirc. Or maybe there are some horrible 'espresso' pods out there that you're using?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Uncletits said:


> @MediumRoastSteam have you documented your routine anywhere? - looking to do something better with my water and counter space is at a premium


 I haven't, as there might be easier ways, and it's pretty straight forward sort of thing. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss distiller / distilled water! 👍👍👍👍


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