# What's the difference?



## MikeRo (Oct 24, 2020)

Hi All
I'm a new member looking to purchase a Sage Oracle Touch and there are 2 models I'm interested in:

SES990BSS: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-SES990BSS-Automatic-Espresso-Machine/dp/B079QFVWPR/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=SES990BSS&qid=1603537585&s=kitchen&sr=1-1

SES990BTR: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-SES990BTR-Oracle-Touch-Truffle/dp/B07Q5YQF7G/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=SES990BSS&qid=1603537181&s=kitchen&sr=1-6#HLCXComparisonWidget_feature_div

Would someone be able to tell me the difference pleas and what you get for the extra couple of hundred quid the SES990BTR costs.

Many Thanks in advance.


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## damo6925 (Jul 26, 2020)

Nothing. I believe btr on the serial number means black truffle which is the colour and bss is brushed stainless steel.

If you are buying one I would look on ao.com and get a discount code online... I think my stainless steel one was about £800 all in....

Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk


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## MikeRo (Oct 24, 2020)

That's great. Thank You. I think as you say the letters of the model are the only difference then. TR for Truffle and SS for Stainless Steel

I'd looked over all the other details and couldn't see anything else. 300 quid for a colour change! Trouble is... Wife prefers the black truffle. I'll check out ao.com.

Thanks again


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Buy something else.


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## MikeRo (Oct 24, 2020)

Hi Tom
Trouble is, I wouldn't know what. As James Hoffmann says, "Do you want another hobby?" and we don't really. We just want a machine that does all the work for us at the touch of a button and produces acceptable coffee at the end of it. Certainly open to suggestions though. I think the main attraction for us with this machine is that we can be lazy!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MikeRo said:


> Hi Tom
> Trouble is, I wouldn't know what. As James Hoffmann says, "Do you want another hobby?" and we don't really. We just want a machine that does all the work for us at the touch of a button and produces acceptable coffee at the end of it. Certainly open to suggestions though. I think the main attraction for us with this machine is that we can be lazy!


 Fair enough , just be aware you are trading off user input for potential quality of coffee .

if you like milky drinks from big chains with a darker roasted coffee , then you are likely to get comparable coffee to these from a decent bean to cup .

If you aspire to getting decent coffee from somewhere lime square mile to use , I think you may be disappointed with the results.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I don't believe in this "hobby" stuff.

Where is this 'hobby'? I just grind, dose, tamp and pull the shot. It's no more a hobby than making my breakfast.

Let's look at the 'learning curve'.

Learning to distribute properly.
Learning to tamp level.
Learning when to stop the shot.

The first two are easily taken care of. Scales will make doses consistent and tools like the Bravo tamper and distributor will provide a consistently level tamp. With a good grinder the smallest amount of redistribution is necessary.

Will a BTC machine distribute and tamp properly? No. Will it dose consistently? Not precisely. Is the grinder good? No.

So you cut out all of the learning with a BTC machine but you may as well just do it all badly and be equal to it, even surpass it with a better grinder.

What's the other part to the hobby? Learning when to stop the shot. Which requires you to learn which coffees you like and which ratios to use for whatever coffee you're using. This is not something you can cut out with a BTC machine, if anything it makes it harder due to dosing inconsistency.


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## MikeRo (Oct 24, 2020)

Thanks guys. Very much appreciate your feedback.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Just to add a counter-point; I've had my Oracle Touch for about 3 years now and once you get used to the limitations and accept it for what it is, it makes a good cup of coffee and most importantly if you "just" want a cup of coffee then it does that as well. MrsToby, the kids (10 and 8yo) can all make a good enough to drink coffee for me. Is it as good as the finest shot, pulled by the most experienced barista with all the latte art? No. Is it perfectly drinkable and better than most shots you will get from other machines? Yes (or at least its better than my Gaggia and others I've had).

It has its weak points but it also has its strengths - give it some good beans that are fresh and dialled in correctly and you will be happy. If you want to fiddle and obsess then its not the machine for you. For reference I use HasBeen subscriptions, 22g and 65-70g (depending on bean) out over 30 sec


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> I don't believe in this "hobby" stuff.
> 
> Where is this 'hobby'? I just grind, dose, tamp and pull the shot. It's no more a hobby than making my breakfast.
> 
> ...


 I'd agree with this. There's not that much to it once you get your head around the workflow and process. Plus there's a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself.


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## MikeRo (Oct 24, 2020)

TobyAnscombe said:


> Just to add a counter-point; I've had my Oracle Touch for about 3 years now and once you get used to the limitations and accept it for what it is, it makes a good cup of coffee and most importantly if you "just" want a cup of coffee then it does that as well. MrsToby, the kids (10 and 8yo) can all make a good enough to drink coffee for me. Is it as good as the finest shot, pulled by the most experienced barista with all the latte art? No. Is it perfectly drinkable and better than most shots you will get from other machines? Yes (or at least its better than my Gaggia and others I've had).
> 
> It has its weak points but it also has its strengths - give it some good beans that are fresh and dialled in correctly and you will be happy. If you want to fiddle and obsess then its not the machine for you. For reference I use HasBeen subscriptions, 22g and 65-70g (depending on bean) out over 30 sec


 Thanks Toby, that's useful info. May I ask what bean you consider has given the best result/most satisfaction?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> I don't believe in this "hobby" stuff.
> 
> Where is this 'hobby'? I just grind, dose, tamp and pull the shot. It's no more a hobby than making my breakfast.
> 
> ...


 Agree with this in principle but there's a lot of hindsight here. It's absolutely a hobby for the first couple of months. Once you know what you're doing, yes, you just spend the few minutes to make your coffee and it's nice, but getting to that position takes a bit of time and effort.



MikeRo said:


> We just want a machine that does all the work for us at the touch of a button


 If you're brand new to coffee don't think you'll get an Oracle and day one, press a button and you'll get a nice coffee out of it. It takes a decent amount of time and reading to get to a consistent nice drink.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It's down to what the end user of the machine wants. My mum likes coffee (she went off tea)...but not instant, she has some cognitive function issues as she has got older and even though she is 85 I have to be watchful and keep a safe environment for her. Fortunately I had a Melitta Varianza knocking around that I'd put though it paces quite thoroughly during a 3 month review period and I wondered if she could use that. A "proper" coffee machine was out of the question.

I showed her how to turn it on, which button to push and how to empty and clean the drip tray and puck knockout box. She loves the coffee she gets and I don't have to carry one to the annex any more. She can have coffee any time *she* likes, in safety, all I have to do is keep her supplied with beans.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

MikeRo said:


> Thanks Toby, that's useful info. May I ask what bean you consider has given the best result/most satisfaction?


 Pretty much anything off my current subscription; different bean each week/fortnight depending on your frequency. normally takes about a shot, maybe two to dial in a new bean and then for the rest of the week it works fine. I've a range of about 4 "dial points" as the Oracle fixes most of the variables (and that tends to be what annoys other people). Your dose is pretty much set to 21-22g but I tend to find it consistent once set. The tamp is nine times out of ten good enough and the odd occasion I will manually tamp to get it back to where it needs to be. The shot time is the variable that its easiest to play with: 30 sec seems to work for me with my settings and gives a pretty constant 3:1 output which I find suits the drinks that I like.

Feed it fresh beans and try to get enough that will last you a week and it's a good machine. Its crappy value for money as it is expensive for what it is but I don't have the space in the kitchen for a separate grinder+machine so as they say - you pays yer money and makes a choice!


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## Alex.Spamps (Jul 27, 2013)

Hi Mike,

The Oracle Touch is a fantastic bit of kit! The automatic grind and tamp does certainly eliminate a large number of variables that could add to bad shots. By far the biggest and most important variable will be buying fresh, quality, medium-medium dark roasted coffee. The Sage machines thrive with coffee within this range. Also since you can "dial in" your drinks to your specific liking e.g. milk texture, temperature, shot volume, temp you can get your drinks to a coffee shop quality level in no time, even with the automated steam wand. I don't say that lightly i'm a barista trainer and I have a love hate relationship with that wand, it breaks all of the rules and yet still manages to do top notch milk. It's a big investment but it will give you high end drinks for years to come.


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## MikeRo (Oct 24, 2020)

Thanks guys. That's great info. I agree it's a big investment but hey...I'm not gonna be spending it on a holiday at the moment😃

I must admit I was unaware of Hasbean and will be having a good look at what they have to offer. Won't be buying for a couple of weeks so time to do some research...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MikeRo said:


> Thanks guys. That's great info. I agree it's a big investment but hey...I'm not gonna be spending it on a holiday at the moment😃
> 
> I must admit I was unaware of Hasbean and will be having a good look at what they have to offer. Won't be buying for a couple of weeks so time to do some research...


 @MikeRoThe Oracle Touch is almost £2000. I would suggest that you have a good look around the forum. Using a prosumer machine and separate grinder really isn't hard...effectively the only real difference, is you will tamp yourself and decide when to stop steaming yourself. For that sort of budget you can get a really nice prosumer machine and grinder, something you will own for decades and is easily repairable.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> @MikeRoThe Oracle Touch is almost £2000. I would suggest that you have a good look around the forum. Using a prosumer machine and separate grinder really isn't hard...effectively the only real difference, is you will tamp yourself and decide when to stop steaming yourself. For that sort of budget you can get a really nice prosumer machine and grinder, something you will own for decades and is easily repairable.


 This is my point. 
The sages may be good value at the bottom end, the bambino, DTP and Barista express. But as you move up they become less and less good value.

The Oracle has the same standard grinder in it like the BE, at 4 times the price!

it does all the things you would want to do yourself, like weighing your dose and tamping.

And if you read the threads on this forum you will see it will probably break shortly after the warranty expires with pretty much no way of fixing it without sending it to the dodgy sage service people.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TomHughes said:


> This is my point.
> The sages may be good value at the bottom end, the bambino, DTP and Barista express. But as you move up they become less and less good value.
> 
> The Oracle has the same standard grinder in it like the BE, at 4 times the price!
> ...


 Dual boilers are good value IMHO but ...I dint think Oracle are , especially the touch version

But You have no way of knowing how many break and at what time versus warranty as most people who buy them dont come near this forum and those who continue to work aren't going to tell us.

Couple of other points , they dont weight the dose or the output , they use a flow meter and another process for dosing. The flow meter imho is not that accurate . The milk function is brill though .

The point is that sage machines in general are less repairable than other machines , you need the manufacturer for them, but if you into a bean to cup you are proabaly not gonna be one to fiddle with internals of coffee machines anyway

Lastly My oracle must be 6 years plus now and still alive and working .


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Dual boilers are good value IMHO but ...I dint think Oracle are , especially the touch version
> 
> *But You have no way of knowing how many break and at what time versus warranty as most people who buy them dont come near this forum and those who continue to work aren't going to tell us. *
> 
> ...


 Very true, there is a bad news bias of posting problems. 
I guess, like anything, if I knew it was possibly going to break I'd want to know that it was fixable for cost of parts and labour (or ideally by oneself) as opposed to the extortionate quotes I've heard which compare to buying a whole new machine!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TomHughes said:


> Very true, there is a bad news bias of posting problems.
> I guess, like anything, if I knew it was possibly going to break I'd want to know that it was fixable for cost of parts and labour (or ideally by oneself) as opposed to the extortionate quotes I've heard which compare to buying a whole new machine!


 Agree , i had more parts to replace on my L1, Vesusivius and Bianca then on my oracle and I targeted my oracle pretty poorly  I think i may be an outlier .


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