# Basket sticking?



## Drusy

I'm still patiently waiting on grinder, so using pre-ground illy coffee in my lovely new sage DB, but about a quarter of the time the basket sticks to the group head and no amount of gentle wiggling the portafilter releases it - I have to get out a big wrench to break it free. I'm not compressing the coffee at all with the tamper, just barely filling the basket - below the silly "sage razor" gage level. This is really a hassle! Will this go away once I'm using fresh ground coffee? The videos all say to compress at 30lbs pressure?

and what are the two little lights on the front just below the manometer gage for? Warning lights? pressure, water level?

Thanks again for advice.


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## DoubleShot

Other Sage owners have mentioned and experienced this. @garydyke1 however doesn't so perhaps he's the man to speak to?


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## garydyke1

Drusy said:


> I I'm not compressing the coffee at all with the tamper, just barely filling the basket - below the silly "sage razor" gage level. This is really a hassle!


Why are you doing this?


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## hotmetal

My guess is that untamped grounds are being forced somewhere they shouldn't be and are causing it to get stuck. I wouldn't worry about 30lb but definitely do level them and compress the puck before extracting. Then again I don't know this machine so take my help with a pinch of salt.


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## urbanbumpkin

I still get intermittent puck stick.


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## Daren

urbanbumpkin said:


> I still get intermittent puck stick.


Sounds both rude and painful


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## urbanbumpkin

Or is it a stuck pick


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## Dallah

Pucks do have a tendency to stick especially with the stock Sage baskets. They designed them so pucks were easy to knock out but this has the unintended effect of making it easy for the vacuum at the end of the shot to suck the puck up out of the basket onto the screen. Experiment with your dosing and grind. You will need to find the sweetspot where you have just the right headspace so that you get a good extraction as well as the puck staying in the basket, or at least being stuck lightly enough that a wiggle of the portafilter will drop it back into the basket.

I now never get a puck sticking to the shower screen. Simple solution. I switched to ridged VST baskets. After tamping, the top of the puck should be level with the ridge line. Of course you will have to balance that with dosage, fineness of grind, extraction time etc ... to produce coffee and not just a neat puck in a portafiilter.


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## MediumRoastSteam

I've been experiencing exactly that on my new Profitec 700, VST 15g and bottomless porta filter. Reading on other forums, it is likely this is related to coffee blend and associated with lower doses and a finer grind when the pressure goes suddenly from 9bar to 0, via a 3way solenoid or the E61 exhaust valve. This does not happen, for me, with the stock basket. Just google "Espresso puck stuck on shower screen". Just "bleep" the pump to dislodge the puck. Nothing to worry about, just annoying.


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## hotmetal

Hang on guys, are you talking about the coffee puck sticking to the shower screen? The OP says he needs a big wrench to dislodge the *basket* from the group, not just the puck coming out of the basket (unless I'm reading it wrong?)


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## Drusy

yes, @hotmetal is right, its not just the coffee puck that is sticking, it's the basket and I am using the pressurised "double wall" ones recommended for pre-ground coffee, which is ridged.

I'll keep tinkering, and will try to compress more...

Thanks for advice.


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## urbanbumpkin

Sorry mate didn't read it properly. I've never used the pressurised one.


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## jlarkin

Have you tried putting less coffee in? Are you weighing the coffee or just filling to the line?

If not with this you'll definitely want scales to grind your own coffee - especially if you ask any questions on here .


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## Drusy

I just fill to below the "sage razor line" but I'll try weighing it, just to see how it compares. But until my free grinder arrives from Sage, I'm limited to pre-ground coffee.


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## Fevmeister

try tamping?


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## DoubleShot

Weighing your dose of coffee grounds is the way to go. None of this...Sage razor line malarkey, lol! You'll read plenty of talk consisting of dose in and dose out, measured in grams. Hard for anyone else to know where you're at without these measurements if trying to make suggestions etc.


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## Fevmeister

DoubleShot said:


> Weighing your dose of coffee grounds is the way to go. None of this...Sage razor line malarkey, lol! You'll read plenty of talk consisting of dose in and dose out, measured in grams. Hard for anyone else to know where you're at without these measurements if trying to make suggestions etc.


Its not because of that

if he's dosing inline with the provided razor into the pressurized basket he shouldn't have to be removing the basket from the group head with a spanner!!


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## DoubleShot

Drusy = she 

Should have included in above post...this is not the solution to your basket sticking problem but you'd do well to weigh your dose in and out, going forward.


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## MediumRoastSteam

I don't have a Sage DB, but this may be a silly question: How is the basket secured to the porafilter? Doesn't it have a PF spring? I suppose the suction happens at the end of the shot ad it is sucking the puck up, together with the basket. It happens to me if I take the spring off the portafilter (No, I don't need a wrench to remove it, I just wiggle the PF a bit and it drops), but that never happened if the spring is in place.


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## Dallah

Drusy said:


> yes, @hotmetal is right, its not just the coffee puck that is sticking, it's the basket and I am using the pressurised "double wall" ones recommended for pre-ground coffee, which is ridged.
> 
> I'll keep tinkering, and will try to compress more...
> 
> Thanks for advice.


I guess i "man read" the OP and saw what I had a solution to as opposed to the actual issue.

Hope you get it sorted.


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## Beanosaurus

The SDB can sometimes vacuum pucks (and even baskets by the sounds of it), I suffered with this problem for ages and thought it was to do with my shower screen.

It wasn't, so I ended up up dosing my VST baskets +1.5g and that seemed to relieve things but I felt I was using too much coffee in some instances.

Then one day I decided to momentarily press the brew button to release the puck - voila!

Problem solved, now I can dose at the recommended VST basket ranges without the puck sticking.

...I dare same the solution will apply to the sticking basket.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Beanosaurus said:


> Problem solved, now I can dose at the recommended VST basket ranges without the puck sticking.
> 
> ...I dare same the solution will apply to the sticking basket.


For the past few days I managed to mitigate the sticking puck business. On my machine, it only happened with my VST/Strada basket. The problem on my case was that I am using a 58mm tamper. After some observation I found that the edges of the basket were not tamped, supposedly leaving lose coffee grinds around the edges, thus making easier for the puck to dislodge when the suction happens when you stop the shot. I cured it by doing a NSEW (also known as "Staub") tamp.


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## Beanosaurus

Though I am sure this has worked for you, I don't believe the problem lies in the size of the tamper or the style of tamp used.

If there's a sufficient gap between the surface of the puck and the shower screen it will give more scope for the puck to aggressively suck upwards when the OPV system cuts water flow to the puck.


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## hotmetal

I'm still not convinced. If the OP says they need to use unreasonable force to remove the basket (sans PF) from the group, it must be more than vacuum. If it were vacuum (can I call it pucktion, pleeease!), then the basket would just release from the puck, surely? Hard to imagine a puck sticking in a basket hard enough to maintain a vacuum even when being pulled at with tools.


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## Fevmeister

This thread is persistently going off topic

This is not pucktion, this is a whole basket sticking And needed considerable force to shift it!!!


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## Beanosaurus

The OP is using the pressurised double basket which has a single hole - this I reckon gives more scope for a vacuum to occur especially when there is coffee in the basket.

I genuinely believe 'pucktion' is involved as well as laxity of the grip that the basket has with the portafilter spring,

swap out to a non-pressurised,and even ridged basket and I'd imagine it'd no longer be an issue.


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## 7877

How tight are you gettng the PF on insertion? I take it to 6 o'clock and no further but it will turn quite a way further if pushed. Could this cause the basket to get jammed in?

The puck I have had stick to the shower screen on occasion, usually if I have overloaded the basket. I don't generally use the pressurised baskets, but did try them for a laugh with some tesco pre-ground....eugh!







.....and they seemed a tighter fit admittedly but maybe just because they were new.

I use an 18g VST and the fit is certainly a bit different to the stock non-pressurised baskets, but I have had neither get stuck.


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## Drusy

I got the Smart Grinder (woo-hoo!) and it is TOTALLY different using fresh ground vs my tinned pre-ground beans. I don't have to use the double walled baskets anymore and I've not had the single wall one stick once. So sorted, I think.

How often should I do the backwash routine? Every day or once a week???


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## Fevmeister

Drusy said:


> I got the Smart Grinder (woo-hoo!) and it is TOTALLY different using fresh ground vs my tinned pre-ground beans. I don't have to use the double walled baskets anymore and I've not had the single wall one stick once. So sorted, I think.
> 
> How often should I do the backwash routine? Every day or once a week???


Once a week should be fine for back flushing

glad to hear you're sorted now!


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## jlarkin

ECM - different machine/manufacturer but perhaps still somewhat interesting suggested a backflush every 150 drinks...so about once a day :-D.


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## jlarkin

Drusy said:


> I got the Smart Grinder (woo-hoo!) and it is TOTALLY different using fresh ground vs my tinned pre-ground beans. I don't have to use the double walled baskets anymore and I've not had the single wall one stick once. So sorted, I think.
> 
> How often should I do the backwash routine? Every day or once a week???


Having now bought the dual boiler from Fevmeister - I think the Sage recommendation is for a backflush, with chemicals, every 200 shots and the machine should remind you by coming up with a "clean me" message. You could backflush more often with just water and it shouldn't cause an issue.

I've been getting a lot of puck stick today, I'm going to try over-dosing and probably move down to the 15g VST from an 18g one that I have been using...


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## DoubleShot

Define puck stick please


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## frederickaj

Have you got another basket you can try ? There might be a problem with the lip of the basket !


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## jlarkin

DoubleShot said:


> Define puck stick please


At it's essence, it's a puck that's stuck. Seems to be a very common phenomenon with the Sage DB. So you remove the portafilter from the group and wonder where the flip the puck is and it's completely stuck to the shower screen, I've had pretty much every variation today of different amounts of the puck stuck to the shower screen.

The most common explanation for it from a very quick look around seems to have been that it's when you have too much headroom between the puck and the shower screen. Hence me trying an overdose to resolve it. I need to take a break anyway for a bit because even with sipping a bit I've had too much coffee without enough food, I'll come back to it in a bit.


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## DoubleShot

Have you tried dosing 19g in your 18g basket?


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## jlarkin

frederickaj said:


> Have you got another basket you can try ? There might be a problem with the lip of the basket !


I could try the Sage one, which is well thought of but I'd read a few comments saying it was more common with the Sage than with a VST basket. The basket and PF disengage fine for me - it's just the coffee that stays behind .


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## jlarkin

DoubleShot said:


> Have you tried dosing 19g in your 18g basket?





jlarkin said:


> I'm going to try over-dosing and probably move down to the 15g VST from an 18g one that I have been using...


it's my next move.


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## DoubleShot

Saw one of these in action for the first time last month and didn't see one puck stick in like a dozen or more goes. Believe it was a 18g VST basket being used and 18.5g or 19g doses?


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## jlarkin

Been reading back from few different forums and it looks like a lot of people have had a stuck puck with a lot of different machines and it's also pretty common on the sage. I've seen it mentioned by cafes, Karl Ramage at Mahlkonig mentioned having it with a GS3 in one place with quite a few different grinders and machines etc. some people seem to think upping the dose helps but I've had it with two shots that were 19g into the 18g VST. A few others have mentioned that it seems to be with certain beans, I'm using the Rocko mountain at the moment, so I'll be interested to see what happens when I start using a different bean. It's terribly frustrating because I'm making quite a mess but also sort of interesting . A quick blip of the brew button (manual or shots) tends to knock it off the screen and I'm mostly catching it in the basket.


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## DoubleShot

Rocko Mountain requires quite a bit of a finer grind than other beans. You may find when you switch to Rave Signature that the puck no longer sticks.

Keep us posted...


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## jlarkin

I will indeed, I have my own KG of Rocko that I opened yesterday though - so it'll take a while. . .


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## robashton

I can't be bothered reading all the other pages (points for honesty?)

But I found updosing solved this entirely for me - I have no idea why this would be,

18g in my 18g VST baskets = nearly always sticking

19g in my 18g VST baskets = never sticking

Points for anybody who can tell me why I'd experience this counter-intuitive behaviour


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## jlarkin

Seems like nobody is very sure on the exact reason apart from the end of the shot and the solenoid (I think it is?) closing kind of creates a bit of a vacuum. So one explanation I saw was that it's if you have too much headroom then the suction is that bit greater and causes the puck to stick. I've tried 19g into an 18g VST and it's still getting stuck. For the moment I'm blipping the button to get it to drop into the basket - with a spouted portafilter as well (waiting to see if the sage naked PF group buy does happen but will probably get bored and buy one) it's getting pretty messy but still pretty good results and hoping to keep improving them!


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## garydyke1

Updosing and coarser grind ends with with a dryer puck , less likely to get stuck?

Its rare I dose more than 18 in an 18, or 20 in a 20... maybe 5 in every 100 shots stick!


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## callumw

I'll grind 18-19 in a VST20 with the naked portafilter. I find it depends how long I leave it in the group head as to whether or not it sticks. The longer I leave it the more likely it is to stick It's easy to dislodge though. Just put the knock box under the group and tap the manual button on/off and the pulse of water drops the puck into the knock box. A quick 5 second flush into an old cup to dislodge anything remaining on the brew screen, wipe it dry and it's ready to go again


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## Beanosaurus

callumw said:


> I'll grind 18-19 in a VST20 with the naked portafilter. I find it depends how long I leave it in the group head as to whether or not it sticks. The longer I leave it the more likely it is to stick It's easy to dislodge though. Just put the knock box under the group and tap the manual button on/off and the pulse of water drops the puck into the knock box. A quick 5 second flush into an old cup to dislodge anything remaining on the brew screen, wipe it dry and it's ready to go again


My advice is to slightly loosen the portafilter after a shot and then do a quick on/off pulse on the manual button - The puck will fall straight back into the basket.

I spoke to an engineer recently about this issue and he said it was because the exhaust from the group is a lot further away than other machines and as such it creates a stronger vacuum.

In any case the above method is fail safe.


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