# What's going wrong?



## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

I've just got a second hand gaggia classic and a new baratza virtuoso grinder, I initially tried pre-ground costa coffee which was ok but tasted a bit bitter and very little crema, I was having to tamp very hard.

Since getting the grinder I've purchased some cheap sainsburys beans to practice with, I first tried setting 3 on the grinder and the result was ok but very little crema again.

I then tried setting 1, tamped hard and the results were worse, the ground coffee seemed to be very clumpy, almost like little cubes as they fell into the portafilter.

Can someone point me in the right direction!


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

Ok, I'm thinking it's over extracted? have a ground too fine and tamped too hard?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

This is your primary issue ''cheap sainsburys beans''.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Use them to get the grind right e.g a double shot from 14g in 21-25 seconds. Then when you get some decent grinds there should be little need for adjustment.


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

So I've probably gone from using better but pre-ground (costa) to cheap but freshly (Sainsburys) and ended up with similar results.

Is there a decent but not too expensive coffee that I can buy to use as a baseline to work from?

I know realise how bad Starbucks coffee is, even my poor efforts taste better!


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

"I now realise how bad Starbucks coffee is, even my poor efforts taste better!"

My local Starbucks make lovely coffee as I reported elsewhere:good:


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

Have look in the Beans section, especially the UK Based Roasters topic which will provide links to where you can order freshly roasted beans. It's also worth reading the other threads to see what people are currently drinking. You would not believe the variety that is out there to suit different palates.


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

I adjusted my grinder back to setting 3, dosed directly into the portafilter but this time I made sure I really filled the basket, and I stirred the coffee halfway through to remove clumps.

I also allowed the classic to warm-up for at least an hour and had the portafilter attached as well.

I made the espresso before frothing the milk as I had heard that the classic can struggle to maintain a good/high temperature (due to small boiler?).

If anything I was close to choking the machine and my shot was probably 5-10 seconds too long.

http://yfrog.com/n49kqz

http://twitpic.com/6fx0tq

Still using the cheap sainsburys beans at the moment.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

You're getting there, just keep going









BTW, just looked at your puck picture, above. See how it is darker around the perimeter? That might indicate that's where the water came through more (doughnutting). Common issue when the tamper doesnt quite fit the basket. Nothing to worry about, just an improvement for the future.


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

This morning I ran into all sorts of issues!

First of all I emptied the old water out of the tank, then ground the sainsburys beans at setting 3 directly into the portafilter, stirred with a cake tester to remove any clumps, scraped across the portafilter/basket to level off the coffee.

I then tamped, trying to use the same pressure as yesterday, locked in the portafilter and pressed the brew switch, a few dribbles came out of the portafilter after a few seconds and then nothing.

I was a bit confused and thought that I must have choked the machine, so cleaned up and tried again, but this time using setting 4 on the grinder but did everything else the same.

Still nothing, then I realised that the tube in the water tank wasn't in the water!

So I then repeated everything, but went back to setting 3 on the grinder, and this time all was ok, except that I didn't tamp hard enough and the shot pulled in about 15 seconds.

The shot looked ok but tasted strange, but by this time I was desperate for a coffee so drank it anyway!

With a better designed water tank and pick up tube this problem this wouldn't happen, why didn't Gaggia reduce the height of the rear of the water tank slightly and have a mechanism that pushed up the tube as the tank was pulled forward, and then allowed it to fall back down again when it was pushed back in.

I only have a couple of coffees a day and don't like the thought of stale water that's been sitting in the machine for 20hrs or so.


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

i found this page useful, although obviously I'm not there yet!

http://www.coffeegeek.com/opinions/edgabrielle/09-15-2002


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Just make sure you are also dosing the pf with enough coffee, as shown in your link. Too little may cause some channeling, fast pour and you will probably notice some blonding early in the extraction.


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## JohnnieWalker (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah I'm trying to make sure I fill the basket to the top.

I'm dosing direct into the PF until about half full, stirring with a cake tester, then dosing until full.

I then scrape of the excess by dragging across the top of the basket and to help level the coffee.

After that I just give it a hard tamp and lock it into the machine.

At least I've had a few half decent shots, so I know I'm getting there!


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

As CoffeeMagic mentioned you need to ensure you have the right amount of coffee and you are consistent. I always weigh my PF, grind, and re-weigh until I have around 18g for a double. I vary this depending on the bean. This is a personal preference since I am aware that 14g can be considered standard for a double. If you use scales then you can repeat your process consistently and adjust the other factors such as grind setting.


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