# Apologies. Dosing, VST with WDT



## Edlockwood

Happy New Year everyone.

Firstly I would like to apologise to you all for my ranting and raving about MyEspresso, my machine hasn't missed a beat since it was returned to me. I think I got a little carried away with some of the posts I read on the forums plus the brusque manner with which I was treated and assumed that I was being given short shrift. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the machine.

That out of the way, I got 2 lovely pressies for Christmas. A naked pf and an 18g VST ridgeless basket.

I've read all the posts below but couldn't find an answer to my problem so....

With the old portafilter and stock basket, I got to the stage that dosing 18g with the WDT yielded excellent consistent results but as is the nature of this hobby, I was curious about possible improvements. I asked for and got the aforementioned toys and had a go. The first shot (new pf plus VST) went through in about 13s and tasted awful. When I got it out, the grounds were very soggy and the was no imprint on the coffee even from the screw.

After that I tried dosing more than 18g and went as far as filling the basket, levelling it and then tamping. This was much better but I am wondering if I do in fact own a 20g basket which is what it weighed in the end. I know its all slightly irrelevant and all I need to do is find something that works but my questions are..

What do you good people typically dose into the stock rancillio basket ? If its 18g then I definitely need to dose more because my VST is noticeably larger which makes me wonder if its the correct one

The other question is do you bother with WDT (I have a Rocky) because that seems to enable me to tamper down further the thus moving away from the screen. WDT seems to lead to a but pulled shot in terms of dead spots etc but I will need to compensate.

I hope that makes sense.

Ed


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## Mrboots2u

You need to grind finer with a vst basket than the stock one ( this is normal and due to the amount size and design of the wholes ) ...The vst basket probably has more headroom with 18 g in it then your stock basket ( this isnt a bad thing )

The vst basket will expose any flaws in your basket distribution but once mastered i find give a better taste in the cup to other baskets ( this is a totally subjective opinion on my part though )

I have no experience with the Rocky, but if it has a doser then that should remove clumps as required ....


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## johnealey

Hi Ed

I still wdt with all the VST baskets as when I don't, spritzerville!

I did find with the 18g VST that it required a change of grind to our usual 22g VST requiring a little finer grind, this being on a 65e not a rocky though.

Would suggest going no more than +/- 1g of 18g when dosing the basket as VST literature states this is their tolerance level to avoid bitter or sour shots.

As to the size of the VST it will be "printed" on the side and on the rim:

View attachment 11052
View attachment 11053


Hope of help

John


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## Edlockwood

Thanks. It is indeed an 18g basket. I will play around with the grind. I do seem to be running out of space at the lower end though so presumably I need to tamp harder too ?


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## johnealey

On the Rocky, I found that the burrs drop off really quickly ( in coffee terms..) from sharp to just about holding their own so if your burrs are getting on the "mature" side of life you probably started in the 10's and now down in the 3-4 range? If this is the case then could be time for new set.

If not the case and you could try this in the meantime anyway, yes tamping a little harder may help especially if only lightly tamping to start with (lots of schools of thought on this but if not already done try tamping onto a set of batromm scales to see what you currently "tamp at" and come back and let us know)

If anyone finds a more reasonable price for a set of rocky burrs than that advertised on Myespresso am sure myself and OP would be happy bunnies ( when have replaced the burrs on mine will go up for sale as can't justify keeping it just as a pour over grinder especially when tend to use the 65e for this as well)

Hope of help

John


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## Edlockwood

The burrs are less than a year old so I would hope that that is not the case. I'll see what happens in 10 mins when it heats up again. Thanks chaps


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## Edlockwood

Nice even pour but still too fast. I'm on 4 at the moment. Tamped hard I felt


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## johnealey

Have seen some comments on the burrs wearing considerably at about the 25-30kg mark upwards so would be dependant on how heavy your use is?

Might also want to double check your Zero point is actually not miles above touching as this could also lead you think you getting real close ( if not done this already post again and sure we can offer up some advice or point in the right direction)

What beans are you using though, as a bit of an afterthought, as older / different beans also tend to require a much finer grind to avoid gushers?

John


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## Edlockwood

I did give the whole thing a clean and might well have put it back together incorrectly.

I'll check again.


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## Edlock

Yup. It's miles out. In fact I am struggling to get the two plates to meet due to coffee in the grooves. Damp cloth then leave to air ?


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## Glenn

With decent distribution you will not need to WDT

Assume you're weighing your shots and have a good fitting tamper (58.35mm or greater)

A well distributed puck, fine grind and firm (not hard) tamp should see spritzing as a thing of the past

The less you can play with the puck the better


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## Edlock

Yup. I weigh the grounds and then the shot and use a 58mm motta tamper. I think I may have discovered the root cause though in the grinder. It's stuck open so currently all bets are off.

I'll try and get rid of the last few bits of fine coffee from the threads using a cocktail stick or possibly a clean damp sponge.


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## Yes Row

VST baskets are Snake Oil and I subscribe!

I can honestly say I can not tell the difference between mine and the stock baskets, taste wise. I tend to stick with the VST as my grinder is dialled into them.

yMMV


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## Edlockwood

So.......

I thoroughly cleaned out the grinder and followed a "hilarious" Kat and Gale video to put it back together again.

I found that the blades never touch when I screw it in as far as poss and was wondering if this is normal. I can't see any stray coffee I the threads now and it feels like its home as far as it will go. They both span as one when I screwed it in.

I put it on around 3 and had another go. Much better but the distribution was a bit shyte. Was all certainly slower and the result tasted better too. Less tang and was darker in colour.

Any thoughts ?


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## Edlock

One last question on this subject if I may.

I checked the grinder again and worked out that although the burrs look like they are apart they do in fact touch.

I've tried again and the results are getting better but distribution is tricky because the pile of coffee is so far down the basket. Ill post a snap in the near future.

This also makes me wonder about the amount oh headroom above the puck when pulling shots. The aftermath is still much soggier than I got with the original basket.


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## Glenn

What size basket are you using and how many grams are you dosing into it?


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## Edlockwood

Hi Glenn. 18g VST 18g of Caravan - Market blend.

I am giving it a good stir to break u the clumps a la WDT but that shouldn't make too big a difference right ?


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## Glenn

Try another .5 or 1g

It may make a big difference

Also give it 1 tap on the counter (which will help break the clumps). Seems to work for VST's


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## johnealey

+1 on the above also have been corrected by SWMBO, that I was having a bit of a "yet another TLA" moment when i typed earlier in this thread that I still WDT, I don't, what I do is nutate gently after a gentle tap on the mat pre applying pressure.

I don't know who was more surprised, me for hearing it or my wife for having said it as clearly my witterings have sunk in despite her preferring me to make the coffees! 

In retrospect, I did use to WDT when using the rocky then moved onto nutating when in the basket after started grinding into a small tupperware style pot to break up the clumps / distribute better than grinding straight into the basket. I also used to use a 58mm convex Motta tamper, having also had a flat 58mm Motta, before going to current Torr Titanium

Nutating did make a noticeable improvement though when still using the rocky with the silvia.

Hope of help

John


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## Dylan

I get some pretty bad shots with my Mazzer if I dont really mix up the grinds, likely down to mis-aligned burrs, but thats an aside.

The best distribution and pour I achieve by far is to dose into a second milk jug (dry ofc) and then really shake up the grounds, then pop in the PF and tamp very lightly, enough to settle and level but not much more. Nutating for me produces a dead spot in the centre of the pour, but it helps others, so keep experimenting. I used to nutate as it consistently seemed to help, but now it never does... could be a change in beans or grind or brew pressure or shower screen or.... who knows.


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## Edlockwood

added an extra gram and TBH popped it down a notch on the grinder and it came through in approx. 28s

The puck was much drier than before so seemingly problem solved. Thanks to all

Forgive my ignorance but what is nutating ?


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## Mrboots2u

Edlockwood said:


> added an extra gram and TBH popped it down a notch on the grinder and it came through in approx. 28s
> 
> The puck was much drier than before so seemingly problem solved. Thanks to all
> 
> Forgive my ignorance but what is nutating ?


Rolling motion in this clip


__
https://flic.kr/p/4175453850


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## Edlockwood

great. I'll give that a go.

So 19g, no WDT. Light rap on the counter followed by a bit of nutating ? Will give all of that a try.

Thank you for your knowledge and this wonderful resource.


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## Mrboots2u

Edlockwood said:



> great. I'll give that a go.
> 
> So 19g, no WDT. Light rap on the counter followed by a bit of nutating ? Will give all of that a try.
> 
> Thank you for your knowledge and this wonderful resource.


if your 28 second shot was balanced and tasty i wouldn't change anything , stick with what works and is simple


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