# Fracino Piccino Review



## hashluck

Had some time today to set up and play with this machine and review it here (keep in mind newbie so not an experienced user of this type of kit).

As with my Eureka Mignon Grinder there was a lot of trial and error and wasted coffee but the results were worth it in the end.

PACKAGING - came in a sturdy enough box but internally the packaging was not that great. Just blocks of polystyrene. Would have been fine if you could rely on shippers to keep the right way up at all times. This is never going to happen and clearly the machine had been upside down at points which meant that the water tank lid, Brita filter, drip tray and drip tray cover (basically anything loose) had come adrift in transist resulting in some marks to the drip tray and cover, nothing serious but easily avoidable had they been lighlty taped in place and a protective film used. Ironically the User Guide says to remove all protective coverings before use, but there is no protective covering! Also water from inside the machine had also come out and marked the external surfaces in transit. Again no big deal and at least showed the machine had been tested.

BUILD QUALITY - first impressions pretty good. A heavy sturdy machine. The water tank and water tank lid are a bit naff but these cannot really be seen. The water tank lid though does not quite cover the white plastic of the tank and also 'pinches' the (overflow(?) tube running into the tank but this is being picky. The Drip Tray, as others have remarked, is a strange/tight fit but once you realise how it works it makes sense in operation. The Brew Switch on my machine is slightly skew which is annoying.

SET UP - Fracino recommend and supply a coffee machine specific Brita Filter for use in the water tank. The Brita instructions say the filter should 'click' into place in the 'filter holder' in the coffee machine water tank. There is no such 'holder' in the Fracino tank so it just floats around in the water not really inspiring confidence. This does not seem right to me but there is nothing in the Fracino instructions to indicate what one should do with the filter or how to 'install' it other than just leaving it in the tank as I have done. Fracino also say the water tank is removable for ease of filling. This is true but re-fitting the tank is not that easy or confidence inspiring that you have it in place correctly (and you have to route the aforementioned plastic (overflow?) pipe). This is easy with the tank empty but really not easy when the tank is full of water. Best probably to leave the tank in situ and fill from a jug (Brita Jug in my case).

FIRST TURN ON - turn on the machine with the On/Off Switch and a blue light on the switch turns on. A water filling light underneath also comes on to indicate the boilers are filling. Nice but I am not sure strictly necessary (the light that is). As instructed for first turn on (and I assume each time the tank is re-filled?) I operated the Brew Switch until water appeared from the group which it did pretty much straight away - a good start. Once the boilers are full the water starts to heat (water heating light comes on).

VENT STEAM - not me, the machine. During heat up you are advised to open the steam valve until steam vents from the tube (2-3 minutes). This is to stop milk being sucked up into the boiler on first use. Venting is fine but they do not warn you that (a small amount of) water will exit the tube before steam to leave a jug under the tube! Once vented, close the valve and wait for pressure (on guage) to come to 1.0 to 1.2 Bar. Advised to allow group and filter holder 15 minutes to warm up (with filter holder in group). Noted when fitting the empty filter holder that it was easy to rotate it beyond 90 degrees. Not sure if this might cause damage if repeated regularly, it is probably not good for the filter seal. This is not so easy with the filter holder dosed with coffee though (see later).

MAKING COFFEE - the machine comes with filter holder, double, single and blank baskets and (useless) tamper and measure. The baskets clip in easily and the filter holder seems of reasonable quality. My grinder has been set to pretty coarse (for espresso) to accommodate an old Krups machine and I did not adjust this for the first practise. First problem was none of my tampers (53mm, 58mm and Fracino supplied) are a good fit for the Fracino filter holder. The 58mm will not quite fit, the 53 and Fracino are too small with the result that coffee rides up the edges of the filter holder. It was very difficult to get an even tamp. Fracino advise tamping coffee to 5mm from the top of the filter......

NO OVERDOSE - I have always erred on the side of overdosing my measures. This is not necessary OR POSSIBLE with the Fracino. If you dose over the 5mm line then you simply cannot fit the filter holder. If you try to force it the group flexes (noted by other early users) but you do not get that far as it really is not possible to even insert the filter holder in most cases and it can cake to the shower head. Result you have to dig some coffee out of the filter holder and/or tamp harder. Messy and tamping in general is not easy in this filter holder as previously noted. Whilst one could say all of the above is 'user error' it is a very fine line to get the dose and tamp right in the Fracino and would be my biggest criticism of the machine. What I did realise as the testing went on though was the filter holder holds a lot more coffee than it looks like as I was getting through a lot more beans per 'dose' with this machine so overdosing is simply not required and I in fact need to err on the side of underdosing.

FIRST TASTE - not really fair as I had not adjust the grind but I ran a single espresso cup out anyway. First problem (which turned out later not to be a problem) was lots of splashing and the coffee runnning out really fast (coarse grind remember) and missing the single espresso cup both sides! In any case what did make it into the cup had no crema but actually tasted pretty good! I adjusted slightly finer a couple of times with some improvement before realising it was probably easier to start from the other end.....

GRIND FINER - clearly this machine could take a much finer grid so I dialled the Eureka down as fine as it would go. First try machine choked. So adjust slightly coarser (though still MUCH finer than before) and now we were getting somewhere. Coffee ran out smoothly into the single cup, with a lovely crema and in that 18-30 second window. I was getting clumping from my grinder which was new to me and indicating I was indeed much finer than before but the clumping was not an issue.

SECOND TASTE - Just great. Really good crema, consistency of a nice pint of Guinness and lovely tasting coffee. A Eureka moment without too much trouble and proving yet again how much is in the grind and tamp but also clearly that this machine is capable of making really good espresso even in the hands of a complete beginner. I am sure more time and trouble adjusting the grind would be rewarded. The only trouble for me was getting consistency of dose and tamp. I need to find the perfect tamper for this machine. I was finding still a tendency to overdose and then tamp harder to compensate and knocking out the coffee afterwards was not easy suggesting the tamp was too hard. The pucks were nice and dry but I had rather rammed the coffee in there to get the filter holder to fit!

I also deliberately ran the machine out of water to see what happened. There is a warning buzzer but it is REALLY QUIET.

After turning the machine off I also vented the steam again until the pressure returned to 0. Not sure if you are supposed to do this or not but seemed sensible. I had one go at steaming milk with the machine on, which was rubbish, I just heated the milk. I will play with this tomorrow when I have some more milk to potentially waste. I am not really a milk drink maker and I was hoping that I would be able to run the Fracino wth just the brew boiler on for espresso only days but it seems not to be possible.

Tomorrow I will try running through the back flush cleaning routine. Looks straightforward and I will have a lot of coffee in the group head due to all my overdosing!

All in all a good first day with the machine. More to come I am sure.


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## hashluck

Coffee corner


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## sandykt

Looking good, an excellent and very informative review, looking forward to further updates


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## Eyedee

Thank you for a superb piece of writing.

Ian


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## coffeebean

Thanks for the write up John! Really useful feedback!

cheers

Andy


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## hashluck

OK I can report after today that dosing and tamping into the double basket is MUCH easier than into the single basket and the machine pours two singles evenly. That said I will nearly always be pouring one single so I need to persevere with the single basket. Taste seems the same it is just harder with the single basket to get right.

I can also report that backflushing is a doddle.

No time to play with steaming yet (I keep putting it off as I am enjoying my success so far before I fail at the milk)


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## DonRJ

Thanks for the review hashluck, re: the flexing issue if you overdose the PF and try and force it into the group - does the whole group assembly flex upwards into the machine body and from your observations does it appear to be its mounting assembly that is flexing. If so, perhaps Fracino could be made aware and consider increasing the thickness of the steel to resolve the problem. Just had visions of groupheads disappearing into the machines at the hands of insensitive / inexperienced users. Not including you in that statement of course, you diagnosed the issue and resolved it.

Keep persevering with the milk frothing, its very satisfying when you get the knack and present guests with a lovely frothy cappa. They sometimes seem more impressed with the froth than the coffee itself.

Don


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## Glenn

Don, that's what is happening and Fracino are adding a strengthening panel to prevent this

On the machine I used this was barely noticeable even with a lot of force

Seems to vary by machine


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## hashluck

The whole assembly flexes and yes it sems some strengthening to the panel would address this. The group head itself is not going anywhere (as far as I can tell) it is just disconcerting and at worst I guess the panel could buckle slightly in use.


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## coffeebean

Hi John,

I can get them to fix the flexing problem on your machine if you like - up to you, give me a shout if you want me to sort it for you


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## hashluck

Thanks Andy, I will be in touch!


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## bill.h

Hashluck

Thanks for a very informative and interesting post. I have been scouring the forums for weeks now as I have been on the very of buying a Piccino. So having ordered one last week, I was pleased to see your review (and it was also very helpful as I navigated the instructions / setup etc). To be honest my experience was almost identical to the observations you reported. I also had a couple of questions on which I went back to Fracino (Peter there was extremely helpful - even called me back on a Saturday to help sort things out, you can't ask more than that!).

One thing you might be interested to know - Peter advised me that the Brita filter DOES actually locate within the water tank. If you look at the bottom of the filter itself you will see a circular aperture. This locates directly over the black valve at the very base of the water tank. This way all the water passing from the tank into the machine itself then needs to pass through the filter (kind of obvious when you think about it I guess). Anyway - if you've still got your Brita filter floating in the tank, try pressing it onto/over the black valve at the base.

One thing I'm personally still struggling with is creating microfoam! I had this down to a tee with my old Gaggia Baby Class. The main difference here is that the Piccino wand has two holes drilled into the end of the steam arm, which fire 180 degrees apart (the Gaggia had a single downward-pointing hole). This means that it's very difficult to get the 'whirlpool' effect going since whilst one steam jet is pushing the milk around, the other feels like it's stopping it. I'm sure there's a technique to make this work (maybe positioning the arm differently, or rotating it so the jet holes are in a different position) - but so far I'm not finding it. I practised today with some soapy water, and that improved things a little. But much more difficult than I had anticipated. Still we all know that you can't expect instant results with this kind of equipment and it takes time to get to know it. What I do know is that at the moment I have not yet been able to achieve latte art quality foam without it being very grainy (I'm not a complete newbie and I have been able to do this for the last year or so with my old Gaggia machine).

If you have any insights based on your own experience - I would be very pleased to hear them.

One other thing that may be of interest - I asked Peter at Fracino whether I could use a timer to turn the machine on in the morning (I like to have it warmed up by the time I get up, so not sat around waiting etc). My particular concern was the issue of purging the steam arm on startup. Peter confirmed that it would be ok to use the timer (YES!







as long as I purged the steam arm prior to doing the first lot of steaming. So good result there (although of course the first time I forgot, and bad tasting steam/milk for half a day!!!)

Hope that helps, and grateful for any further thoughts. For anyone else considering an upgrade to the Piccino - it's a beautiful machine, unbelievably heavy and obviously very well made. And I can also attest to the helpfulness and attention of the Fracino staff - I think we all know how important that is with a purchase of this value

Kind regards, Bill


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## Glenn

Very informative first post Bill.

Welcome to Coffee Forums UK

I look forward to hearing more about your experiences with this machine


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## bill.h

Thanks Glenn - kind of you to say. I'm desperately keen to know if anyone else is getting to grips with the Piccino and can offer any words of advice re the microfoam. Also wondering whether it's possible to switch the steam arm for e.g Rancilio Silvia which seems very popular.....

Cheers, Bill


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## Glenn

There are a number of standard steam tips that you could try.

Replacing the steam wand on a brand new machine seems a pretty drastic step.

Not sure which steam tip the The Coffee Machine team had on display at the London Coffee Festival but that worked really well and I was able to create lovely textured milk.

Jon should be able to advise

With a powerful steam wand you may need to plunge earlier in the process than you are used to as well.


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## hashluck

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your post and thanks for the tip on the Brita Filter. What you described is how I thought it should work but I could not locate the filter on the hole. Now I know it is supposed to be that way I will try again.

The machine continues to make great espresso. Dosing and tamping into the single PF continues to be a challenge (for me at least) and overdosing really exposes the flexing issue and makes thing very messy. I am not talking about a major overdose here, you can have slightly to much coffee in the PF and all bets are off. Rather than try and scrape coffee out (difficult once tamped) one tries tamping harder which is also not an easy option. There is a tamping sweet spot but only if you get the dose spot on. In any case the machine is quite forgiving taste wise of whatever you throw at it.

Now microfoaming. I have still only tried a couple of times with zero success. I just heat the milk (very quickly). The 180 degree holes also seemed strange to me. Also my machine spits out a small amount of water before steam, not sure if that is normal? So in a way it is good to hear that some one more experienced than me is also struggling with this. No doubt there is an art to it with this particular set up. Sounds like you willl be practising more than me so I will be interested to know how you get on.


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## bill.h

Evening All

I'm sitting here on Friday evening with my belly full of the most delicious decaf vanilla flat-white.....and I just feel duty-bound to write again and share more experiences of my new Fracino Piccino.

I have had the machine for a couple of weeks now and as you may notice from the earlier posts, I was driving myself crazy with my inability to create anything that resembled foam with this machine. In the earlier post I wrote "Still we all know that you can't expect instant results with this kind of equipment and it takes time to get to know it". Well I should have taken that as a bit of self-coaching and not wasted your time with my questions!!

I guess part of the appeal of coffee-making is that whilst the machines appear easy to operate, we all know that there are a myriad of variables that can creep in, all of which profoudly affect the end result. And therefore each foray into the kitchen represents the next opportunity to try out that latest theory that has been percolating around your head for the last few hours. There is much trial and error - but when you do suddenly produce something spectacular, it's immensely satisfying.

Anyway - I digress!! So I set about trying to figure out what was going wrong. To be honest...the answers were right there in front of me in the manual. "listen for the change in tone, don't let the milk boil". I didn't think I could, as I always use a thermometer. However the Piccino steams milk more quickly that I had been used to with the Gaggia, and so I was letting the milk boil. Hence flat (and v hot) milk. Error #1 eliminated. Peter from Fracino also advised me to use Cravendale milk. I got some - no discernible difference. I then realised it wasn't that cold coming out of the fridge, and I tried turning the fridge down a couple of degrees. Instantly MUCH better.

I then tried blocking one of the holes with a wooden toothpick from the inside, and steaming just with a single hole as I had been used to. Got a good result, but it took far too long on a pint pitcher of milk. I then removed the pick, and steamed EXACTLY as depicted in the manual. I positioned the wand as straight down as possible, put it right next to the spout, turned on full and brought it up just under the surface. Then I surfed the surface (ch ch ch) as it magically started to rise....and kept surfing until I hit 100 degrees on the thermometer. Then I pushed it further down and let it heat up to full temperature (i.e no more air). I didn't worry about whirlpooling as I had with the Gaggia - it just didn't matter. All exactly as described in the manual.

The result? Thick, creamy, gloopy, glossy, magical microfoam. I quickly pulled a couple of espresso shots into larger cups, and proceeded to pour some of the best latte art I have yet achieved









So - I take back everything I said before about the steam arm etc etc - it's absolutely spot on and I'm COMPLETELY happy with this machine. It's a keeper and I'm sure it will be good for a decade or more.

One comment re dosing: Any kind of plastic scoop is a nightmare for me - it picks up static and makes a huge mess as I try to collect coffee from the grinder. I bought a (I think 7 oz) stainless steel scoop which is perfect. One level scoop of coffee (filled up directly from the grinder) for a single, two for a double. Takes all the guesswork out - and I think part of the secret of this game is consistency.

Many thanks for all your help and advice guys - greatly appreciated, and you've helped one very happy wannabe Barista here









Let me know how you get on with your machine Hashluck









Cheers, Bill H


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## BanishInstant

Thanks for the comprehensive update Bill.


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## sandykt

Great posts and a brilliant review, thanks Bill


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## AndyL

Awesome, very well done. it's so satisfying when it all comes together.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bill.h

Thanks guys, very kind of you to say.

I'm very interested to hear about others' experiences with the Fracino Piccino. There seems to be so little written about this machine at the moment - and that in itself causes a challenge (I've seen more than one person understandably opine..."best to wait before buying so we can see what people are saying" etc). I'm sure there must be lots of people out there who have, like me, taken the plunge recently and bought one of these beauties, and if we are able to share out collective experiences, we will learn more quickly. I think we can also assist Fracino to get the word out and help others feel confident to put their hands in their pockets and stump up the readies









Cheers, Bill


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## hashluck

Hi Bill. I will hopefully get some time to play around with the milk again next weekend.


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## hashluck

After several weeks without using the machine at all (do not panic still been getting my espresso fix in Italy and with my old set up at work) I had a play again today. The espresso is still amazing even with old beans but my milk foaming is still a disaster. I am going to have to follow Bill's tips to the letter. From milk type (which I do not have to hand today, only low fat here - blame the wife), temperature and method. Better yet some barista training one of these days. For now, I will stick with the Italian 'only espresso after 11am' way and enjoy it. I really want to learn though espeically since I have all that machine there and I hate having 'all the gear and no idea'! Bought back from Italy the best Amaretti biscuits ever.


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## ObsidianSage

Hi

This is an old thread - I know, however, I'm the proud owner of a new Piccino and struggling slighty with single shots using the single basket.

Seems that I either overfill it, and that means that either the portafilter won't lock into place, or if I use less, I get a less than satisfactory tamp.

I wonder if anyone who's cracked this might offer me some advice, and even post a couple of photo's - before and after tamping??

Thanks


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## Dylan

Hey Sage,

I can't offer much help, as I am looking to buy in the future rather than owning this machine, and I am in fact following your other topic, but I have done a little reading and just wanted to ask if you have followed the following steps. -

I cant find the reference but I remember someone saying that in the Fracino manual it has a suggestion to how many mm the coffee should be tamped down from the edge.

Have you checked your tamp pressure with some bathroom scales?

Try putting your grounds into the basket and levelling off with the flat side of a teaspoon handle, or curved little finger until the grounds are even and level with the top of the basket. Then doing the usual light tamp, tap, full tamp, then brush off excess or 'bless'.

I am no expert on this part, but as far as I understand it, if you think all of the above is correct, but you are not getting a 'puk' after extraction then try playing with your grind setting, a little finer may produce the result you want.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes, and how you get on with milk frothing if thats your kinda thing, as people seem to have had trouble!

D


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## ObsidianSage

D, if I fill the single espresso basket to the top, I can't tamp it down enough to achieve the 0.5cm clearance Fracino recommend. This also means that the portafilter does not engage properly with the group head and if you try and force it, the coffee gets rammed up against the shower screen completely choking the machine.

There appears to be a fine line between choking the machine and achieving the perfect dose. I believe others have reported similar experiences elsewhere, but someone on here said they had cracked it, I just can't find the thread. Maybe I need to grind coarser and tamp harder, but my current grind does not look as fine as say, some shop bought pre-ground e.g. Lavazza.

I am thinking that I might move onto the double basket, which is said to be easier to work with, perfect that and then come back to the single basket.

All in all, I've had the new machine less than a week, so I shouldn't expect instant results. This is all good fun and I'm enjoying the learning experience.


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## Dylan

Dan, My initial reaction would be to grind finer, not coarser. This will allow the grind to compact more and perhaps provide the correct distance from the brim after tamp. My grind is a fair bit finer than the lavazza standard.

It may also be worth picking up some pocket scales, putting in what you know to be the right amount of grinds for the basket and then if you still cant fit it then its a matter of fiddling with grind and tamp pressure.

I just want to re-iterate that I am, much like you, just guessing here as I have not been doing this long enough to know









D


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## jimbow

Single baskets are very difficult to get right so I would definitely agree with your suggestion of learning on the double basket first. I never use my single basket now as it is difficult and I tend to prefer a double when on my own anyway.

The single basket is very particular about dose - this is partly because of the sloped sides which means too low a dose cannot be tamped effectively. The sloped sides also tend to make channelling more likely and can lead to early blonding. You may have seen videos of people dosing the ground coffee level with the rim of the basket, swiping off any excess and then tamping this down. Because of the quantities I find this does not work with a single basket - level with the rim is too much coffee. You need to use scales to measure the dose.


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## ObsidianSage

Is there no such thing as a single basket without sloping sides?


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## jimbow

They are relatively rare but they tend to come in two forms:

- La Marzocco/VST style where the bottom is still narrower than the top but there is a step rather than slope so the sides are still technically straight.

- Straight sides and wide bottomed. I saw one once but cannot remember where







it is very shallow and looks basically like a similar shape to a 15g VST basket but just much shallower and with fewer/smaller holes on the bottom.


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## ObsidianSage

jimbow said:


> - La Marzocco/VST style where the bottom is still narrower than the top but there is a step rather than slope so the sides are still technically straight.


I'll try one of those, I think. meantime I'll concentrate on the double.


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## jimbow

Only problem with those LM/VST baskets is that they require a smaller tamper to tamp within the inner stepped part.


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## ObsidianSage

Had the LaMarzocco single basket for a couple of days now (about £5 from CoffeeHit) and thought I'd update this thread as to how I'm getting on with it.

First of all, I just filled it a little over the level of 'the ledge' and did the best I could with my standard 58mm tamper. You wouldn't exactly expect a brilliant shot from this, but the result was instantly better than the with the Fracino single basket. Good enough to make me think I would probably never use the Fracino basket again.

Since then, I've been refining things a little. Firstly the grind to something finer so it compacts a little tigther in the basket.

Second, I fashioned a homemade tamper for the inner basket from a tesco spice jar filled with baking beans:










Next I fill the basket in three stages, shaking slighlty so that the coffee.accumulates in the inner basket and tamping at each stage:















[IMG alt="" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk//coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG]


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## ObsidianSage

http://img.tapatalk.com/5f92a90b-532f-2720.jpg[/img]
















After final tamp I clean up the basket by sweeping away any loose grinds with my finger:


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## ObsidianSage

Produced this 1 oz shot in 25 secs.










Enjoyed as a latte with a lump of chocolate cake. Here's the Puck.










A little wet I think, but I think that'll be the largish gap between the shower screen and the top of the coffee which seems unavoidable with this basket.

Hope this is helpful to somebody. Would not hesitate to recommend the LM basket.

Dan

ps. I think some of these photos will be the wrong orientation.

Sent from my Galaxy S


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## Earlepap

Love your home made tamper.


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## xiuxiuejar

the single vst is often a little wet because of the way they force the water to filter through the basket. I don't think it's the tamp. If you manage to get dry pucks, please tell me as I never have with the single VST.


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## fatboyslim

How are you liking the Piccino?


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## ObsidianSage

Great machine. Been practising singles and doubles. Miles ahead.of.the old Krupp's machine it replaces.

Have done some milk frothing. Nothing up to latte art standards, but that's more likely to be down to my lack of experience than the machine

Anything particular you'd like me to comment on?

Dan

Sent from my Galaxy S smartphone.


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## Bruce Boogie

Hi

I've been checking out Coffee Forums and reading some of the Piccino reviews I decided to buy one - hope you still like it.

I couldn't justify the "big boy" machines for two Espressos a day, but this should do the trick. Thanks for your postings.

Bruce Boogie


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## Bruce Boogie

First day with my Piccino and matching grinder, so I've got a long way to go!

love the look of the machine and it is a dual boiler so I can get onto milk for some of our friends.

so far so good, well almost an hour for a half decent cup using DE beans until I get hang of things and then buy some Rave beans from down the road.

The grinder seems hard to set up, the dial needed lots of turning to get close - now I've got to start to get it right. I like the baby Fracino.


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## Bruce Boogie

I'm in need of a proper tamper as I knew!!

With the Fracino double basket (I don't think that will never be a single maker!!) is the real tamper the same size of my plastic toy tamper that came with it or do I fine tune the tamper to the basket?

I'm not buying from Edinburgh at the moment.


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## bengregz

thanks for the info, look forward to getting to grips with this machine next week.


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## Ashley8000

Great review!


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