# Marax VS Bezzera Unica PID MN vs ECM Classika II PID



## rahilb (Jan 10, 2015)

Hi all,

I'd like to upgrade from my Sage Duo Temp pro and I have narrowed it down to a few options. The reason i'm upgrading is I can't get a good shot out of the DTP anymore, and it's quite annoying to not be able to steam and pull a shot at the same time, the steam is also very weak now (it was never that great to begin with, taking around a minute to do a small milk jug).

I'm planning to keep my current grinder (Sage Smart Grinder Pro).

I have narrowed it down to one of:

- Lelit Marax

- Bezzera Unica PID MN

- ECM Classika II PID

I usually have one or two milk based drinks and an americano/filter coffee a day, so not doing super high volume.

I've never bothered with weight/time based extraction and calibration/tinkering doesn't really interest me, I just eyeball it and adjust based on taste and look.

I guess the question is given that usage which of those machines would you go for? The Bezzera machines have the joystick steam controls which look really nice to use and the wood hardware looks good, I just think they are very large? They also don't seem to get talked about too much here.

I'm also not sure if I should care about the pid or not; I think adjusting just the tamp and dose has been OK for me so far, i'm not sure I would ever change the pid settings or program anything.

Thanks for reading.


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

rahilb said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'd like to upgrade from my Sage Duo Temp pro and I have narrowed it down to a few options. The reason i'm upgrading is I can't get a good shot out of the DTP anymore, and it's quite annoying to not be able to steam and pull a shot at the same time, the steam is also very weak now (it was never that great to begin with, taking around a minute to do a small milk jug).
> 
> ...


 You say you're annoyed at not being able to steam and pull at the same time, in which case, of your list of three, only the Mara X would satisfy you.


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## prezes (Apr 17, 2018)

Chriss29 said:


> You say you're annoyed at not being able to steam and pull at the same time, in which case, of your list of three, only the Mara X would satisfy you.


 To top this off you can't really steam and pull a shot at the same time with MaraX if using the X mode properly. Obviously you can run it in standard HX mode but what's the point in getting the MaraX in this instance ?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

prezes said:


> To top this off you can't really steam and pull a shot at the same time with MaraX if using the X mode properly. Obviously you can run it in standard HX mode but what's the point in getting the MaraX in this instance ?


 Some say you cannot do that on a Profitec 700 / synchronika either because of the "brew priority" now baked in, meaning both elements no longer can run simultaneously. I'm not sure about the Bianca, but if it's like the Elizabeth the LLC gets clever and somehow drip feeds both.

if you want to do that, for a similar price to the MaraX, get the ACS Minima, as it runs both elements in parallel. Or just steam immediately after brewing. 😉


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

rahilb said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'd like to upgrade from my Sage Duo Temp pro and I have narrowed it down to a few options. The reason i'm upgrading is I can't get a good shot out of the DTP anymore, and it's quite annoying to not be able to steam and pull a shot at the same time, the steam is also very weak now (it was never that great to begin with, taking around a minute to do a small milk jug).
> 
> ...


 The MaraX is a completely different machine to the other machines you listed. Do you understand the difference between a SBDU and an HX machine? The MaraX is the latter, whereas the other two are the former.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

We are the authorised UK reseller for Bezzera.

The Unica is a superb machine and is not particularly big but as others have pointed out but it will not satisfy the need for steaming and brewing at the same time so if that is a priority then perhaps look elsewhere. If you are happy with that however IMO it is the best single boiler machine on the market.

The other machine to consider is the Magica PID. It is an HX machine with PID control so you get nice stable boiler temps and you can steam and brew at the same time. You'll get your toggle valves on that one too!


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## rahilb (Jan 10, 2015)

Chriss29 said:


> You say you're annoyed at not being able to steam and pull at the same time, in which case, of your list of three, only the Mara X would satisfy you.


 I guess the most annoying part for me right now is not that I can't to both simultaneously but the fact that with the DTP when I switch from brew to steam there is about 10 seconds where water comes from the steam wand and 20 seconds where the steam is too weak to do anything.

I guess what you are saying is that all single boiler machines have that behaviour as the boiler temp must increase for steam?



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Or just steam immediately after brewing. 😉


 It's not a real problem for me as long as there is not a long wait. From the video review of the Marax it seems like the recommended way is to steam after brewing anyway as you should always be in brew priority mode.



BlackCatCoffee said:


> We are the authorised UK reseller for Bezzera.
> 
> The Unica is a superb machine and is not particularly big but as others have pointed out but it will not satisfy the need for steaming and brewing at the same time so if that is a priority then perhaps look elsewhere. If you are happy with that however IMO it is the best single boiler machine on the market.
> 
> The other machine to consider is the Magica PID. It is an HX machine with PID control so you get nice stable boiler temps and you can steam and brew at the same time. You'll get your toggle valves on that one too!


 It was more the depth of the Bezzera machines that might not work for me, specifically the 4L tank models are too large unless I relocate the machine.

I guess at a super high level the options are

- expensive single boiler machine (bezzera unica/ecm)

- cheap dual boiler machine (Elizabeth/???)

- hx machine (marax/Magica)

And the trade offs are;

- heat up time (SB>HX>DB ?)

- time to steam after brewing (DB>HX>SB ?)

- temp stability/consistency (HX>DB>SB ?)

Non functional ones:

- small size (SB > HX > DB)

- aesthetics (subjective)

I'm leaning towards a HX, but I would like to understand why the SB machines exist in the same price range? As far as I can tell there is no reason to buy for example the ECM classika over the marax or Elizabeth?

apologies if these are dumb questions; I've been researching for a few of days now and it just seems like people tend to recommend the machine they have, or if it's a shop's video they recommend all the machines they sell. It is quite hard to find some clear cut comparisons, especially across entirely different machine categories. Another problem is I think any machine I buy in this price range is going to be light years ahead of my DTP, so any video review I see makes the machine look incredible.

There is also so much more choice! For my previous machine it was either the Gaggia Classic, Rancillo or the DTP... it was only 3 choices but I still made the wrong decision 

Thanks for the replies, I have a lot more parameters now to think about!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

rahilb said:


> I guess the most annoying part for me right now is not that I can't to both simultaneously but the fact that with the DTP when I switch from brew to steam there is about 10 seconds where water comes from the steam wand and 20 seconds where the steam is too weak to do anything.


 This will be the case with the Classika and the Unica. Both SBDU machines. (Single Boiler Dual Use).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@rahilb - What's your budget? I have the Elizabeth at the moment. Previously had Profitec 700, Gaggia Classic, La Pavoni, Rocket Cellini HX.

It all depends on what you want. Heat up time and maintenance... Elizabeth beats any in your shortlist hands down (this was one of my requirements). But as you say, it's a "cheap" dual boiler. But "cheap" is relative. You haven't mention a budget yet.

If I were you however, I'd also budget for a good grinder.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

rahilb said:


> I guess the most annoying part for me right now is not that I can't to both simultaneously but the fact that with the DTP when I switch from brew to steam there is about 10 seconds where water comes from the steam wand and 20 seconds where the steam is too weak to do anything.
> 
> I guess what you are saying is that all single boiler machines have that behaviour as the boiler temp must increase for steam?
> 
> ...


 There are no stupid questions and I appreciate on the face of it it does appear strange that something like the Unica or Classika is approaching the price or even more expensive than entry point HX machines. Those machines are aimed at people that mostly drink espresso and want a top build quality machine with great temp stability but will only rarely steam. They will offer better temp stability than an entry point Hx machine. If you are an espresso nut they are a great choice.

There is no one fits all machine and it is up to you as an individual to decide on what balance you wish to make between features/quality/performance/price etc.

We have a good range of machine on offer and I would be happy to have a chat to you about your personal wants and make a suggestion.

David


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## rahilb (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks folks; when I started the research my budget was about £1100, but now another week has passed I have increased it and I'm pretty sure I'm going for the ACS Minima in white... kind of a love at first sight thing I guess. I'm pretty sure this is as large as my budget will get for the machine, so let's call it £1400.

I better pull the trigger ASAP or soon I'll convince myself I want the Linea Mini 😅


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