# Classic ain't pushing shots



## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Evening all. After a bit of searching and a bit of considering, I think I know the answer here but.......

My 2003 classic, unmodified apart from Rancilio wand, regularly descaled and cleaned etc etc has suddenly stopped pushing shots in a decent time. One day, ~30g in 30 seconds, next day we're talking a minute plus for a shot. Pump sounds ok, water flow seems alright if a little light with no group in place from the block, steam pressure fine.

Personally I think the pump, which lets be honest is 15 years old now, might have shit itself. However, your thoughts most welcome, learned colleagues.

Hope the new year is treating you all well!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Hard to say without being there. Could be a failing pump, could be something caught in the solenoid.

It's pretty easy to test. You'll want to disconnect the water pipe coming from the pump, put it in a container and then run the pump for 20 seconds. I cant remember off hand how much the pump should put out over 20 seconds but anyone else with a classic can let you know what they get out of the group over 20 secs with no PF as a benchmark.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Yeah, figured it could be the solenoid also, will run the test and see how I go. Forget the figures too but will search. Have ordered a new pump and a bunch of parts anyway; this machine is all original and 15 years old so hasn't done bad!


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## JojoS (Oct 1, 2014)

Do you backflush?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

After 15 years the pump is bound to be "tired" it is possible / probable that the main spring has broken which allows the pump to work but not very well.

For the cost of a pump ,replace it and it's supporting rubber collar:good:


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

While it's unrelated to your problem, I'd be surprised if your thermostats haven't degraded too. For the price it'd be well worth replacing them while you have the machine open. You could even upgrade the steam thermostat to 155° (from 145°) to give better steam pressure while you're at it.


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

600ml in 60 seconds approximately for an optimal working classic


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

JojoS said:


> Do you backflush?


Only after a heavy night out.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I'll swap out the suggested parts and see how I go. I'm sure it's not much to sort it out.

It's doing 500ml in 60 seconds. One thing I did notice is that when the pressure from a shot releases through the tube from the solenoid, there's much less water than there used to be.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Here's some shots of the internals so far.













































That gasket is knackered then....


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Sounds like the pump to me, if its putting out a reasonable flow (which it is, a little under) but cant build pressure up then its likely the pump. Good idea to give it a strip down whilst you can tho!


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Well, by way of update, still not fixed. But this is due to me being an idiot, rather than a continuing problem. Short version, had to get back into the machine to alter something after the fix/upgrades and ended up breaking the main switch.

So a new main switch is on order...... But when it did fire up, new pump was much quieter and measured the 600ml in 49 seconds unrestricted, much better than the old pump. I've replaced a bunch of gaskets, upgraded the steam thermostat and cleaned everything up nice, so it should be good to go now. Annoyingly, I took delivery of some lovely new beans from Foundry the other day, and can't try them yet!!!!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

spoxehub said:


> Well, by way of update, still not fixed. But this is due to me being an idiot, rather than a continuing problem. Short version, had to get back into the machine to alter something after the fix/upgrades and ended up breaking the main switch.
> 
> So a new main switch is on order...... But when it did fire up, new pump was much quieter and measured the 600ml in 49 seconds unrestricted, much better than the old pump. I've replaced a bunch of gaskets, upgraded the steam thermostat and cleaned everything up nice, so it should be good to go now. Annoyingly, I took delivery of some lovely new beans from Foundry the other day, and can't try them yet!!!!


I'm assuming the main switch is the one that turns the machine on? If so, for the short term you could just remove it from the circuit & switch on/off at the wall.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

ashcroc said:


> I'm assuming the main switch is the one that turns the machine on? If so, for the short term you could just remove it from the circuit & switch on/off at the wall.


That's the one, yes. But it's also the switch that operates the pump and switches it onto steam mode. The switch mechanism has, for want of a better word, exploded, and so even if I bypass, I have no control of the pump or steam.

In summary - what a bastard.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

spoxehub said:


> That's the one, yes. But it's also the switch that operates the pump and switches it onto steam mode. The switch mechanism has, for want of a better word, exploded, and so even if I bypass, I have no control of the pump or steam.
> 
> In summary - what a bastard.


Ah gotcha. I keep forgetting the classic has them as a single complete unit. On the tebe they're separate so can be changed independently. Hope the postie is timely in his delivery.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

ashcroc said:


> Ah gotcha. I keep forgetting the classic has them as a single complete unit. On the tebe they're separate so can be changed independently. Hope the postie is timely in his delivery.


Thanks mate.

Its my own fault. Slipped with a spanner, knocked the switch back and the front cracked letting all the guts spring out. Gutted....


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

By way of close out, the machine is alive again. New switch, new pump, new thermostats and a few gaskets, etc. as I mentioned.

Much improved steam pressure and milk steaming now thanks to the thermostat upgrade. Unfortunately the improved machine performance has shown me how poor my technique is, inconsistent shots and so on which is more my grind, tamping and patience I'm sure.

Always a school day isn't it! Thanks everyone for the help.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Glad you've got it up and running - must be like new, or Trigger's broom at least! I'm sure it won't take you long to adjust to the new increased performance and at least you now know the thing inside out. That's got to be satisfying and a confidence booster in itself.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> Glad you've got it up and running - must be like new, or Trigger's broom at least! I'm sure it won't take you long to adjust to the new increased performance and at least you now know the thing inside out. That's got to be satisfying and a confidence booster in itself.


Yep, thanks! Got to say it's been a good learning curve - pretty sure I might still have an issue with the solenoid so going to pull that and give it a good look over. Useful practice, since I picked up a non-working Nuova Simonelli Personal 1 off ebay cheap to do up as a project!


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## John James (Jun 7, 2014)

MartinB said:


> 600ml in 60 seconds approximately for an optimal working classic


I have been a bit concerned about my pump for a while as it seemed to be taking longer to pull a shot. I checked the pressure and that is still 9 bar but I have just timed the flow and after 60 seconds there was 450 ml of water pumped out, clearly much less than 600 ml. I assume I need a new pump.

Where is the best place to buy one? The existing pump is ULKA Model E Type EP5.


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