# 1200/1300/1425w Gaggia Classic Boiler Myth?



## Zatogato (Feb 27, 2021)

Along the way with trying to get to my ultimate Gaggia Classic build, I often found wattage to be one of the issues why people prefer the older units (back when they were 1425w.) I understand other aspects like thicker casing/larger solenoid but this one seems to be a misunderstanding.

These 1425w boilers are rumoured to be more powerful/heat up faster but between my 2013 (1200w) and 2003 (1425w) I have had a PID on both units and if anything the 2013 1200w one heats up faster!

Having tinkered with both units in a variety of configurations with both boilers descaled, I noticed this and then had a look at the heating elements. Both units are specified at 680w at 120v. Going by that I don't see any reason a 1200w unit would heat up any slower than a 1425w unit. I guess logically that would make it a 1360w setup at 240v (680x2) across the 2 elements and all of the aluminium Gaggia boilers exactly the same in terms of real world performance.

I would attribute my slightly faster heating 1200w boiler to it being 10 years newer if anything but other than that it seems to perform nearly identically.

If I have missed something here, could anyone tell me why '1425w' units are preferred and explain why/where this rating comes from?

This is the '1200w' 2013 boiler. Interestingly it is stamped at 570w at 110v and 680w at 120v.







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This is the '1425w' 2003. Same 680w rating per element at at 120v but weirdly 535w at 110v which is 35w lower despite this supposedly being the higher wattage boiler.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

It's not the boilers that are rated at 1425w, the 1425w relates to the total power consumption of the machine. If your 1200w machine has the same boilers as the 1425w machine then surely the machine has been incorrectly rated?, as you point out 2x 680 = 1360w


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## Zatogato (Feb 27, 2021)

Nightrider_1uk said:


> It's not the boilers that are rated at 1425w, the 1425w relates to the total power consumption of the machine. If your 1200w machine has the same boilers as the 1425w machine then surely the machine has been incorrectly rated?, as you point out 2x 680 = 1360w


 What else in the machine consumes power to operate aside from the boiler though? I figured that the boiler is the only thing unless you count the switch lights but that would be a trivial amount. Seems that the 1425w rating is wrong too.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

Pump, Solenoid,


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## Zatogato (Feb 27, 2021)

Nightrider_1uk said:


> Pump, Solenoid,


 Haha oops, was having a brain-fail when I replied that. Yes you're absolutely right!

The main myth I wanted to dispel with this thread is that 1425w units 'heat up faster' or have more powerful boilers. This doesn't seem to be the case at all.

If you add the 65w Invensys pump to the calculation you get 1360w from the boiler and 65w from the pump which does make the 1425w rating. If you factor in the solenoid and indicator lights (albeit negligible) then it wouldn't be an accurate rating. Perhaps still 'close enough'.

The 1200w rating is just baffling. That's 1360w and the 48w ULKA pumps that are more standard with these units would make it 1408w - again needing adjustment when factoring in the solenoid/lights.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

Perhaps someone with far more Gaggia Classic knowledge can explain that one.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

My knowledge of electrics / electronics is pretty slim; is it possible that the 1200w stickered unit has some modifications to the inputs to the boiler so that although the elements are rated higher, they can't actually draw more than (say) 550w?


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Perhaps it's something to do with the two elements being wired in series on the 230v versions, and in parallel on the 110v versions


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Is that the case? I'm thinking back to my school physics lessons with bulbs and cables etc, wouldn't that mean that the parallel wired boiler would see a lower temp reached on one side of the boiler? I could be talking out of my backside here...


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## Zatogato (Feb 27, 2021)

larkim said:


> My knowledge of electrics / electronics is pretty slim; is it possible that the 1200w stickered unit has some modifications to the inputs to the boiler so that although the elements are rated higher, they can't actually draw more than (say) 550w?


 My knowledge is also limited - but I have stripped out all the electronics while rebuilding yet again and there is no modification or difference in components that I can see in that regard between a 2003 and 2013. I also cross referenced this against the wiring diagram.



Norvin said:


> Perhaps it's something to do with the two elements being wired in series on the 230v versions, and in parallel on the 110v versions


 Hmmm, if we take the 570w figure from the 2013 boiler at 110v we get 1140w and then adding the 48w pump we arrive at 1188w which is approaching the right figure. However given that EU units would be running at 230v could they just have used the US number as arbitrary?

I'm not sure what the indicator lights and solenoid would be rated at so it's hard to say but this is the only way the maths makes sense and would still mean there is no reason to believe a 1200w European Gaggia Classic would heat any slower than a 1425w one!



larkim said:


> Is that the case? I'm thinking back to my school physics lessons with bulbs and cables etc, wouldn't that mean that the parallel wired boiler would see a lower temp reached on one side of the boiler? I could be talking out of my backside here...


 I figured @Norvin meant between the EU and US versions. I guess the boiler is the same but wired differently for their lower mains voltage - but that wouldn't make that a different between boilers but rather configuration for country mains rating. I'm going GCSE physics on this one too - increasing the number of elements in series would lower the heat but it would still be higher because of the more powerful mains supply. In parallel both would get their 110v of juice but the total would still be lower. That's consistent with the fact that electric kettles are pretty unpopular in the US due to the less powerful supply. Presumably a Gaggia there takes a lot longer to come up to temp.

Perhaps someone who understands electronics would be able to clarify on these points - this is just speculation and rudimentary understanding on my part!


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

As I understand it, a UK socket can deliver 240v x 13a = 3,120w of power. So 3kw fast boil kettle etc, and more than enough to supply the gaggia. If I put a powermeter in on my kettle socket I can see it drawing all 3kw when it is heating up.

US sockets are 120v x 15a (typically) = 1,800w of power, hence the problems with kettles boiling slowly, but still more than enough for the gaggia.

It's all about the resistance in the heating circuit which puts the "limit" on how much power is drawn (I think the amps vary, whilst the voltage stays constant). How that works in practice for the same component which can be plugged into either a UK mains supply or a US mains supply, I don't know; presumably there is some manufacturing approach which matches resistance to voltage so that a different voltage creates a different level of resistance. That might be nonsense though!


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

I think that a few years ago (maybe a couple of decades as time flies) there was a change in law that allowed the UK power industry to supply at a lower EMF (Voltage) than the previous rules, it didn't mean that they started supplying lower, just that they could. I thought perhaps the old power rating was for 240v but equates to the lower when at 230v but 1425x230x230 /(240x240) comes out at c1300W not 1200.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

From the excitingly titled "The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002" https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/regulation/27/made



> (2) Unless otherwise agreed in writing between the distributor, the supplier and the consumer (and if necessary between the distributor and any other distributor likely to be affected) the frequency declared pursuant to paragraph (1) shall be 50 hertz and the voltage declared in respect of a low voltage supply shall be 230 volts between the phase and neutral conductors at the supply terminals.
> 
> (3) For the purposes of this regulation, unless otherwise agreed in writing by those persons specified in paragraph (2), the permitted variations are-
> 
> ...


 So indeed, 230v. I don't quite follow the squaring you've done with the voltages in that calc, but as I've pointed out this isn't my strong point!! I am interested and keen to learn though!!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

larkim said:


> From the excitingly titled "The Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regulations 2002" https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2665/regulation/27/made
> 
> So indeed, 230v. I don't quite follow the squaring you've done with the voltages in that calc, but as I've pointed out this isn't my strong point!! I am interested and keen to learn though!!


 Of course in the UK nothing actually changed, our supply is still 240V at 50Hz. Not a single transformer on the grid was changed and the new ones being put in are the same as the old. 240V at 50Hz. The only thing they did to make us a 230V country was change the permissible limits of high and low voltage...and bingo, overnight our official voltage was 230V.

Don't you love it when scientists, Politicians and businessmen get together. 😁

So when you do your Ohms law calculations, all our appliances use more than rated if they have a power consumption at 230V. It's a pity that we started on 50hz 240V and the USA on 120V 60Hz...when 240V 60Hz, would have been so much better...as well as fitting into a minute 🤣


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