# La Pavoni or save up for a long time?



## shuikit

Hi

I'm a long time lurker looking for a bit of help...

Currently I have a Gaggia Classic and an Ibertial mc2 which I've had for just over a year and after some faffing have been really happy with the results until, recently when I went on a latte art course at Limini where I then discovered just how frustrating steaming milk is on the Gaggia, in that it takes ages to warm up the steam wand and the pressure isn't great. Also I had a play on a lever machine that they had there after which I knew I just had to have one.....

So I started looking for a lever machine that will also be able to stream milk quickly but the HX machines seem to be well north of £1k, which though not completely out of the question, it would take a LONG time to save enough to afford one.

Then there's the Le Pavoni machines.

I understand that there's a learning curve and that it has its quirks, but then so does the Gaggia. Also that the grinder could probably do with an upgrade, which was I think always on the cards at some point&#8230;.

Will the Pavoni fulfil my need for a lever machine as well as make steaming milk easier?

I guess it won't be as powerful as the La Spaziale that I was using on the latte art course but will it be a quicker and/or better than the Gaggia? I can get decent milk on the Gaggia but it takes a long time and I'm not very consistent at getting good milk - yet.

TIA


----------



## CamV6

My advice would be start saving and skip the la Pav step. Every fiver here or there, and try to put aside a few quid each month too, and keep your eyes peeled. You never know what will come up.

You don't have to go to the extent of a Strega or L1,

You could look out for a Ponte Vecchio which is a really nice machine and can be picked up in good second hand condition for sub £500 I believe If memory serves me correctly


----------



## Kyle548

I have a LP and think it's a great machine.

It produces brew water in the same way that a mocapot does- so as long as it's on, you have steam.

There's no waiting around.

The pressure is good, but the boiler is only a couple of hundred mil, so the volume won't be the same as a la spaz; maybe about double the classic- depending on how much water you fill.

When it comes to espresso- the espresso is better than my HX too.

The problem is that it's not consistently better and would be considerably worse with just an MC2.

Choice of bean and grind are more important.

Or should I say - evident.

My HX will pretty much just pump water though whatever you give it - if you get it wrong on the LP, your left with a half cocked lever and a nasty portafilter sneeze.

Also, you cap out at about 3 shots with it before you need to cool it and refill the boiler.

So-

In my opinion the LP is much better than a classic in terms of the coffee and the brewing BUT it's a lot of effort.

Which is really what you pay for when you buy a bigger machine - less effort.

Also, your grinder won't really cut it with anything else but the classic.

Many people here use a grinder at least as expensive as the machine they are using it with.

I pair my LP with a compak k3 - which is a pretty beautiful pairing.


----------



## Kyle548

CamV6 said:


> You could look out for a Ponte Vecchio which is a really nice machine and can be picked up in good second hand condition for sub £500 I believe If memory serves me correctly


A little more at 800 is a microcasa which is a very pretty machine.


----------



## Rhys

Kyle548 said:


> A little more at 800 is a microcasa which is a very pretty machine.


Surprised no one has added to that by saying, push the boat out a bit more and get an L1









I've got my La Pavoni paired with a Mazzer Major and can't fault it. I only have two shots at any one time (or three if dialling a new bean in). If you're worried about emptying it quickly then get a Professional with the larger boiler (and pressure gauge). As for overheating, yes it does after a few shots but I've seen tips on how to overcome this, like cooling the portafilter in cold water and I've watched one video where the grouphead had cooling fins attached (as opposed to draping a cold, damp cloth over it). La Pavoni has recently brought out a new version (which looks beautiful!)










or there's the plain silver version.

Easy to descale as well. As for grinding too fine and being unable to pull a shot, then having to have a sneeze all over the place, I did managed to fracture the puck by quickly pulling up after pressing down so far. Enough to push the water through anyway.


----------



## Kyle548

Rhys said:


> Surprised no one has added to that by saying, push the boat out a bit more and get an L1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got my La Pavoni paired with a Mazzer Major and can't fault it. I only have two shots at any one time (or three if dialling a new bean in). If you're worried about emptying it quickly then get a Professional with the larger boiler (and pressure gauge). As for overheating, yes it does after a few shots but I've seen tips on how to overcome this, like cooling the portafilter in cold water and I've watched one video where the grouphead had cooling fins attached (as opposed to draping a cold, damp cloth over it). La Pavoni has recently brought out a new version (which looks beautiful!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or there's the plain silver version.
> 
> Easy to descale as well. As for grinding too fine and being unable to pull a shot, then having to have a sneeze all over the place, I did managed to fracture the puck by quickly pulling up after pressing down so far. Enough to push the water through anyway.


If you really wanted to be a lever purist, a cremina would be the way to go.


----------



## Lord Fluff

I loved my Europiccola. It burns you, produces a great cup then a stinker, overheats, sneezes everywhere...great fun


----------



## Thecatlinux

Start saving as londinium have rumoured to bring out at a smaller entry level machine , but don't ask me when it's going to turn up .


----------



## CamV6

next year, and it will be a rotary not a lever


----------



## The Systemic Kid

CamV6 said:


> next year, and it will be a rotary not a lever


Don't let Reiss hear you saying that!

L1-S is a lever - Reiss is trying to make it with a rotary rather than vibe pump.


----------



## 4085

The Systemic Kid said:


> Don't let Reiss hear you saying that!
> 
> L1-S is a lever - Reiss is trying to make it with a rotary rather than vibe pump.


and failed by all accounts as there is not the space for a rotary. His blog suggests they are trying out Flowjet pumps sourced locally


----------



## shuikit

Thanks for the replies, I will look into the Ponte Vecchio, do you mean the Lusso or the Export model? Neither seems to be very widely available though..

The Micro casa might look a bit to flashy for my tastes. Is there a big difference between this and the La Pavoni?

La Pavoni wise, I was generally looking at the professional for the bigger boiler.


----------



## CamV6

Yes sorry. Was a rushed reply and got info wrong on the new Londinuim developments.

Theres info on the Londinuim website I believe if you want to check it out


----------



## Blackstone

is there a price for L1-S yet?


----------



## coffeechap

Blackstone said:


> is there a price for L1-S yet?


Will be between the l1 and l1p in price, there is a Londinium manyal on the horizon but that may be some time away


----------



## coffeechap

The la Pavoni is a very capable machine, you have to understand the temperature on it, a good solution it a heat sink on the group which makes it much more temp stable.


----------



## jtldurnall

If you did go for a La Pav, I would recommend getting a single hole tip (imported mine from orphan espresso) for the steam wand. It made all the difference to my milk foaming ability, it's no trouble getting velvety milk for a flat white now.


----------



## Kyle548

Also, think about the difference between manual levers and spring levers.

Springs you have to cock, then the lever does all the work like a pump.

Some will allow you to exert extra pressure- but mostly the springs are calibrated and you won't need to do anything.

All you will control is the preinfusion.

Manual levers without springs - of which the La Pav is probably the only easily available, you have to do the infusion yourself too without assistance.

Off the top of my head, I can only think of the Cremina and the Caravel, besides from the LP which are manual.

The Cremina costs as much as an L1 new and the Caravel is hard to source in a good condition - but has a following - unfortunately it doesn't do steam as a lot of vintage Italian levers don't.

Does it make a difference?

Spring levers are easier and probably more consistent as springs don't tend to change calibration.

Manual levers have more freedom when it comes to making coffee but that includes the freedom to make something terrible.

Having said that - I ran out of beans and used supermarket beans for a couple of days - on my HX they would have been undrinkable- on my LP they made passable shots for about 2 days.

Fair enough the only note I was getting was "roasted", but a fix is a fix.


----------



## Rhys

Also worth noting, a manual lever (like the La Pavoni) won't smack you in the face if you let the lever go without a pf in


----------



## urbanbumpkin

coffeechap said:


> The la Pavoni is a very capable machine, you have to understand the temperature on it, a good solution it a heat sink on the group which makes it much more temp stable.


I've seen these. Where can you get the heat sinks from Dave?


----------



## Kyle548

Rhys said:


> Also worth noting, a manual lever (like the La Pavoni) won't smack you in the face if you let the lever go without a pf in


They do occasionally raid your fridge though.


----------



## coffeechap

There is a guy in Holland called tije who makes really good ones but you can a cheaper version from China On eBay


----------



## Taff

I've been lent a La Pav europiccola and had a brief play for the first time today. Was really impressed. Used the same grind from the royal as the Fracino was set on. Didnt let it warm up for long as didnt have long... no sneezes and was impressed with the first two shots which were drinkable and pretty tasty.. this could be the start of the dark side!!


----------



## coffeechap

Taff said:


> I've been lent a La Pav europiccola and had a brief play for the first time today. Was really impressed. Used the same grind from the royal as the Fracino was set on. Didnt let it warm up for long as didnt have long... no sneezes and was impressed with the first two shots which were drinkable and pretty tasty.. this could be the start of the dark side!!


ooooooooo welcome welcome


----------



## urbanbumpkin

I have to say it was great having a play with a La Pavoni. Great when you get it right.


----------



## Rhys

Used mine again this morning to finish off some Monsoon Malabar since there was only 14g left. Ground a little too course (was a guess) so dribbled on pre-infusion. Gentle, slow pull.. Result was sticky, sweet and boozy...










..it didn't last very long..

Go on... You know you want one... Here's one from someone without a clue..


----------



## mathof

A new LP Professional would answer your needs. New because the design of the group is more temperature stable than pre-2000 models and it has a warranty. Professional rather than Europiccola because the boiler is larger and the pressure gauge is handy. Either LP model, heats up quickly, provides plenty of steam for milk drinks, and most important makes excellent espresso. A quick google search brings up this one, at £490

http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=H-P

Matt


----------



## Kyle548

Where are you based?

If your in Manchester your welcome to try mine if you want.

It will help you to decide either way.


----------



## shuikit

Thanks for the offer kyle548, I'm about an hour drive away from Manchester so we might be able to arrange something.


----------



## nigelp

I've got an LP Pro. Absolutely love it. I bought it on eBay for £300, used but basically like new.

If you are thinking about upgrading in the future then buying a secondhand LP from eBay makes great sense. You can use it for a year or two then sell it for virtually what you bought it for. Also I suspect that the expensive machine you "think" you want now may not be the same one you would choose after owing a cheaper machine for a year.


----------



## h1udd

I bought a europiccola to bide my time whilst saving for an Elektra micro casa leva ... And have fallen in love with the pavoni. It gave me a love for taking machines apart, I have replaced plastic for brass Pistons, changed all the seals, replaced the pstat, bought wooden handles added a manometer ... It even makes me smile when it sneezes burning coffee over you. I love her

and I have recently found my micro casa Elektra ... Will I be selling the la pav ??? Not a Chance, it's an awesome manual lever and makes lovely espresso .. Keeping the Elektra though when it turns up, they are a thing of beauty and every one should have 2 Spring and one manual lever at least


----------

