# Problem with Sylvia with Auber PID



## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Hi all,

I have a bit of a weird problem that at very least I could do with some help rubber ducking.

Basically, a couple of weeks back I left the coffee machine on, and was off around the house doing stuff, came back to it making very odd noises.

The temperature of the boiler (according to the PID had gone up to 140 and the water in the boiler was (as a result) boiling.

It took very little time after dumping the steam and letting it cool down to realise that although the output light on the PID was correctly pulsing, when the output light on the PID was OFF, the boiler light was flickering, and the boiler still appeared to be coming on (hence the rather swift over temperature problem).

Now, I presumed there was some kind of a lose connection somewhere, and thus took off the lid and the front panel for a look. No major problems were obvious, and after moving wires around a little bit, the problem went away, so being short on time, I let it ride, thinking I would change a cable over when I found out which one (I had my suspicions, as one was a bit tight).

Fast forward a couple of weeks, and the problem comes back, this time with a vengeance. The boiler is now basically on all the time.

So: To recap.

PID is measuring temperatures correctly by the looks of things, and the output light looks to be behaving correctly.

Mechanically the sylvia seems to be operating correctly, but the boiler is basically always on.

(This is the auber PID with steam and everything btw)

It was at this point that I twigged that something was rather odd here - I could understand the boiler intermittently *not* coming on, but being on all the time? This presumably means that the line to the heating element is live when it should not be. This is not, therefore a lose connection, as the power has to come from somewhere.

This could, therefore only really mean that two wires are basically touching, which given the lack of damaged cables I have seen, is rather odd. It could obviously mean the PID has packed up, but I find it odd that the output light is still 'correct' if that has happened - its just a lamp inline with the output after all, it would be *very* odd for something to have gone wrong with it but somehow the lamp still operates ok, right?

So far I have only had the top panel off and the front panel, as I don't believe any of the connections between the pid and the heating element go down to underneath the tank (although I am happy to be corrected on this front). I'm guessing I have to now scrape the pid off its sticky pads and have a look in the back to see if anything untoward has happened there, as this is now my number one suspicion (only place with bare wire exposed that I can think of).

Posting here in the vain hope that this has happened to someone else here at some point, and so I can talk to someone about it, 'cos its driving me mad (and aeropress does not really make up for the lack of machine). I did the mods myself, but I'm not entirely sure on my ability to fault find the problem - I also need to dig out the auber wiring diagrams, seeing as they for some reason chose not to make them public, and given this was 5 years ago, I remember *nothing*.

Please help! Old fool slightly out of depth, and not entirely sure he has enough money to replace the venerable Sylvia...

P.


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## Mad Wally (Feb 24, 2016)

The Controller does not switch the current directly it uses a solid state relay to handle the large current. Possibly it has shorted out and is conducting constantly even without a signal from the controller.

Only do this if you know your (electrical) stuff!


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Aww crap, I was wondering about this, certainly it was a suspicion from the beginning, thanks for this.

Would this be the relay that was added along with the PID? (vague memories of 5 years ago) or the original one, do you know? The original relay is used between the brew switch and the heating element presumably - is this a common source of failure?

Also, how would I identify a reasonable replacement. My electrical knowledge is so-so - certainly enough to not kill myself, but not expert level. I know one end of a soldering iron from another, put it that way, but I am obviously wary of mains voltage, for good reason.


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## Mad Wally (Feb 24, 2016)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> Aww crap, I was wondering about this, certainly it was a suspicion from the beginning, thanks for this.
> 
> Would this be the relay that was added along with the PID? (vague memories of 5 years ago) or the original one, do you know? The original relay is used between the brew switch and the heating element presumably - is this a common source of failure?


Yes it would. It happens. Sometimes they go quietly and sometimes spectacularly with a lot of smoke.



UbiquitousPhoton said:


> Also, how would I identify a reasonable replacement. My electrical knowledge is so-so - certainly enough to not kill myself, but not expert level. I know one end of a soldering iron from another, put it that way, but I am obviously wary of mains voltage, for good reason.


It is quite a standard part. Auber sells the 25 amp for 10 dollars but your local electronics shop will also have them. I buy them cheap in China but always get the 40 amp version as the internals are rated 25 amp!


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Heh, so mine appears to be a dual SSR, just to add fun and frolics. I'm in touch with Auber and they sent some handy fault finding tips (I forgot there is a LED on the relay) so will report back when I have these.

Not entirely sure whether replacing with a dual SSR is going to be feasible or whether its going to need two singles going forwards. Wish I could find some with spades on as well, as that would make life a LOT easier.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Aaaaand its definitely the SSR - auber are offering me a replacement ($25 + shipping) which seems pretty cheap given the price of an equivalent dual SSR over here. Would mean waiting slightly longer, however I could see if the other side of the dual SSR is still working (for now).

Thanks again for pointing me to the SSR.


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## Mad Wally (Feb 24, 2016)

Interesting, I've never come across a dual ssr before and I can't find them on the Auber site. You could consider replacing only the broken one by a single if you have the space as they are just two in the same housing to save space. Good luck!


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

They have sent me a replacement, but obviously this is coming from the US. Annoyingly my cunning plan if switching sides on the SSR was defeated when I attempted to do so and the SSR literally fell apart in my hands (well, the heatsink fell off). That would be a no on that front then.

It does rather look, however that this has been caused by water - the SSR is bolted to the bottom of the frame next to the pump, and the design of the Silvia is such that basically if you spill any water onto the top (for example when filling the tank) then this water runs onto a shield and then onto the bottom of the frame. This water over time looks to have corroded the SSR, unfortunately.

At least this is what I hope has happened, I can obviously do a leak test when I get the new SSR and can run the pump etc and see if anything is obvious. I think the new SSR is going to get mounted on the vertical, so that this kind of thing cannot happen again. I just blindly followed the mod instructions really, thinking they must know what they are talking about, but I think mounting an SSR on the base like that is hella dodgy.

Hindsight eh? Wonderful thing.


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