# What Setup?



## Max (Jan 23, 2014)

Hey everyone!









I'm new to the forum, but have been sitting back and reading for about a week.

I currently spend every morning walking up to my local Harris + Hoole coffee shop. I'm a big fan of the H+H coffee and find it to be superior to Costa and Starbucks. I'm spending around £100 a month on coffee and I'm keen to hear some thoughts on quality if I'm to have my own setup.

I don't mind spending some money on something such as a Gaggia Classic, with any needed attachments and of course a good grinder.

*My first question is:* Will I ever produce a flat white as good in quality as somewhere such as H+H, using a Gaggia Classic?

*My second question is:* I'm looking for a reasonable setup that will give me a good quality espresso to use when making a flat white. Is the Gaggia Classic the best in its price range? and any recommendations for a reasonably priced grinder?

If I can make the outlay now on my own setup and tools I'll save a reasonable amount each month on my morning coffee.

Thanks a lot for reading this post!









Max


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

If you like milked drinks and making lots of them then the classic may not be for you. I have one and you can make fantastic shots with a bit of effort and can make really good microfoam if you replace the steam wand that comes on it but being a single boiler it is slow to recover during shots/steam in which holds it back a bit. But in the price range it's in its nearly impossible to beat.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi and welcome Forgive my ignorance , what or where is H+H , us northerners are a bit thick


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Welcome to the forum,

If your spending £100 a month that's £1200 pound a year, you could buy a decent s/h hx machine and grinder and as long as you use good fresh beans,

after a bit of practice you will be making better coffee than the chains.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes, you can! I haven't had coffee from H+H but I can guarantee you if you put some effort into researching and learning you can produce MUCH better coffee than Starbucks or Costa, and probably H+H.

You need a decent machine, a decent grinder, a decent tamper and some decent beans. There are many combinations of these though, so as others have said we need to know a bit more about your drinking habits and your budget!



Mrboots2u said:


> Hi and welcome Forgive my ignorance , what or where is H+H , us northerners are a bit thick


Coffee shop chain, part-owned by Tesco but actually producing some good quality coffee from what I've heard.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Thanks aaron so isn't the horse and hound as I originally thought .....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Started out independent I think and by all means made some good coffee, then Tesco invested and some people consider them to have got in to bed with Satan


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Started out independent I think and by all means made some good coffee, then Tesco invested and some people consider them to have got in to bed with Satan


Not far from the truth , I worked with tesco for a couple of supply companies , they treat suppliers very badly indeed in my experience ( compared to other supermarkets I dealt with )


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## Max (Jan 23, 2014)

Nice to meet you and thanks for the posts guys, very much appreciated!

Ok, I've ditched the idea of getting a Gaggia Classic. What would you guys say is the best espresso machine without going crazy in terms of budget? Likewise a good recommendation for a grinder would be helpful as well.

Is £400 total budget too small for both grinder and espresso machine? What price point would let me make great coffee?

I think Tesco were very shrewd with the investment in H+H (Harris + Hoole), good chance of them creeping into every high street.

Thanks again!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Started out independent I think and by all means made some good coffee, then Tesco invested and some people consider them to have got in to bed with Satan


Harris and Hoole is concept that the small Taylor St. Baristas chain came up with and H & H is a separate venture in which Tesco invested not an enlargement of the original Taylor St business. All that said if they are providing a better alternative to the mainstream chains then more power to them.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Max said:


> Nice to meet you and thanks for the posts guys, very much appreciated!
> 
> Ok, I've ditched the idea of getting a Gaggia Classic. What would you guys say is the best espresso machine without going crazy in terms of budget? Likewise a good recommendation for a grinder would be helpful as well.
> 
> ...


With a budget of £400 your only real choice if you want a grinder as well is a Gaggia Classic, plenty of people here have them and love them, when it comes to making a large number of drinks in one go they do suffer but if it's just a couple of drinks at a time including steamed milk then they are fine for what you want. A wisely bought used Classic from the forum will hold it's value and when it comes to upgrade time then you will lose very little or nothing at all. The grinder is where you should be spending the lions share of your budget and again something like a used ex commercial grinder will hold its value and make you better coffee than a cheap grinder with an expensive machine. When I bought my Brasilia grinder to use with my Classic I was blown away by the difference it made from the MC2 I had been using.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

if you can stretch your budget a little you can get hold of a good used HX and grinder, that way, loads of steam and a better quality shot in the cup.


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## Max (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks guys!

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what exactly is a HX? Are there any good write ups or articles I can read to give me a basic breakdown of machines and grinders?

Also what's your opinions on buying pre-ground coffee beans from somewhere such as Rave Coffee? I could always buy the machine, work with the pre-ground stuff and get a good grinder later down the line?

Thanks for your input guys, it's very helpful!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Without being over technical ,mainly because I can't







my limited understanding is as follows

HX = heat exchanger , a machine with a boiler system than allows you to brew and steam at the same time . These wil be more temperature stable than something like a classic which is a single boiler and a smaller boiler at that. HX will have bigger boilers allowing you to have more steam power and steam more milk at once and quicker.

Smaller boilers empty very fast and need time to recover between the different temperature needed to brew and steam .

If you brew at a temperature to hot or cold it will make you espresso bitter or sour .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/javajim/07-14-2003


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Oh and heat exchangers are more expensive .....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I dont recommend buying preground, a decent used commercial grinder can be had for £150 and a HX machine for around 300 - 400, the standard and quality of your coffee will be much better from freshly ground beans at home.


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Max and welcome!

I agree with what CoffeeChap says. Get a decent grinder and use freshly ground beans. It will make the most difference.

David


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Hi Max I'd also definitely recommend the used grinder route, you get a lot more grinder for your buck.


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## omegabri (Jan 7, 2014)

Hi

For what my input is worth - being pretty much new to all of this, I'd have to say that the Gaggia Classic along with the MC2 grinder produces remarkable results. More so, I'm able to replicate these results on a daily basis, which is fantastic.....

Further to more good advice on this forum I now use freshly roasted beans from RAVE, which also allows me to produce fantastic coffee !!. This was a major step-up in aroma and flavour from using supermarket bought beans that I initially threw through my grinder, and an even bigger leap from trying pre-ground coffee that I'd used whilst waiting for delivery of my grinder from Happy Donkey.

I to drink flat white coffee almost all of the time and I have to say that the Gaggia Classic has never faulted, nor can I imagine it struggling. If I were turning out 15 or 20 coffees every hour maybe that would effect it's performance, but for me alone (with the odd guest from time to time) it remains flawless in my opinion....

All of the above however , (having said it all ...) is just my opinion and I'm not saying either way whether it's right or not for you, but I hope it helps!

Right..........Time for a coffee!!!!!!

















Bri &#8230;


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## Max (Jan 23, 2014)

Thanks a lot everyone. Great input!

I'm going to stick to my Aeropress for a couple of months and try to put some money aside for your recommendations.

Thanks for the article Jeebsy!

No doubt I'll be learning a lot from the forum over the coming weeks and months. I'll update you on my search for a espresso machine and grinder.

Thanks everyone!


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