# Step up from Gaggia Classic under £1k?



## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Looking to step up from my 1999 Gaggia Classic

I've looked into it on the forum, you tube and then seen the prices of machines and they are mostly £1k plus which is out of my budget.

Is there anything worthwhile upgrading to given my budget?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Spend a tiny bit more and you're into Elizabeth and minima money.

If you have to stay below a grand go for a marax


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Cuprajake said:


> Spend a tiny bit more and you're into Elizabeth and minima money.
> 
> If you have to stay below a grand go for a marax


 Totally agree 😎


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Thanks for your replies.

Oh no maybe I have made a mistake with the under £1k title!

Anything 600-800? Just doesn't seem much in this bracket that will prove a big difference from the classic. (although i haven't put a PID in it)


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Pre loved there are loads of options, brand new you could side step towards lever (I'd argue it's an upgrade, others may not) seems to be really fashionable to tell everyone to spend a fortune on new kit or only higher end stuff and a suggestion that nothing beyond a dual boiler or flash HX is worth it.


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Pavoni professional


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## 2cups (May 6, 2019)

MartinB said:


> Pavoni professional


 Is that a step up though, really? Don't get me wrong, love the Pavoni, but I'd suggest probably a sideways step.

Elizabeth and Minima seem like the go to's in this price bracket. 2nd hand prices and demand high atm though, so a PID upgrade could be an idea if you are open to modifying the internals of your machine (not for everyone).


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Demand being high means on eBay that classic would go for about £250

Then you can buy a minima


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Thanks for your time.

Considering I got my classic as a refurb, not totally against used. However that was from gaggiamanualrepair who had a great rep and not much of a risk investment wise.

I have considered the PID upgrade many times but reluctant to actually do it.

Maybe I will have to wait for prices to drop.

The price point of the la Pavoni does interest me, so will seek more advice on this route.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@ST30B wow thats a name from the past, he was over in tod was he not?

Sadly pavoni have shot up in price now too and a used is £100 less than new 😭


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

ST30B said:


> Thanks for your replies.
> 
> Oh no maybe I have made a mistake with the under £1k title!
> 
> Anything 600-800? Just doesn't seem much in this bracket that will prove a big difference from the classic. (although i haven't put a PID in it)


 I won't comment on manual machines, but for £600 you are unlikely to find something new that is leaps and bounds ahead of your Gaggia if you fit a PID and mod the OPV.

Then again, what do you even mean when you say "a big difference"? What's unsatisfactory for you at the moment? Is it the quality of the espresso, is it the steaming, is it the small boiler?


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Have you sorted the important bits - grinder, water, etc?


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Just want better tasting espresso, better steam capabilities and the time between making drinks reduced. Its got the Silvia wand and I know the PID would be the MOD upgrade but it's doing it. So just felt like I've been at a crossroads for years now..


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

I use Brita filtered water and have MC2.


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> @ST30B wow thats a name from the past, he was over in tod was he not?
> 
> Sadly pavoni have shot up in price now too and a used is £100 less than new 😭


 I believe so. He sold me a really nice looking gunmetal chrome gaggia from 99/00 back in 2016.

His website still available as far as I know


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

ST30B said:


> Just want better tasting espresso, better steam capabilities and the time between making drinks reduced. Its got the Silvia wand and I know the PID would be the MOD upgrade but it's doing it. So just felt like I've been at a crossroads for years now..


 That's a lot of "just" for the budget 🤣

In all seriousness, I don't know if there is a new machine within the budget that can give you much of an improvement on all of those fronts. Perhaps the Lelit Grace (or was it Anna? Or Glenda..) at around £500 comes with PID and has most likely better steam capacity on grounds of a larger boiler. Difficult to say whether it will be night and day compared to your machine, or whether it is money well spent. I for sure won't speculate as I'm just judging them by the specs sheet.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

ST30B said:


> Just want better tasting espresso, better steam capabilities and the time between making drinks reduced. Its got the Silvia wand and I know the PID would be the MOD upgrade but it's doing it. So just felt like I've been at a crossroads for years now..


 With all respect, from what I gather here, MC2 is unlikely to fit your espresso requirement. Folks here would suggest Eureka Mignon Manuale as an entry level espresso grinder - if you can afford of course.

Re-water, I do not know if Britta won't scale your new machine - considering you are planning to buy a new machine. I haven't used this in the past. With my espresso machine packed recently, I won't use anything other osmio zero, which we have at home, when I buy a new espresso machine.

I think we have people here using various methods to feed filtered water into the machine. This is a different topic altogether. You will find a lot of posts, which you may want to read before asking. It's a very friendly helpful forum. They will readily help and offer their expert opinions to help you take an informed decision suiting your circumstances including financial.

You also need to think of accessories, which may require an additional £100.

So, you are now aware that this forum - for obvious reasons - has a knack of pushing the budget north. 😊


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> With all respect, from what I gather here, MC2 is unlikely to fit your espresso requirement. Folks here would suggest Eureka Mignon Manuale as an entry level espresso grinder - if you can afford of course.
> 
> Re-water, I do not know if Britta won't scale your new machine - considering you are planning to buy a new machine. I haven't used this in the past. With my espresso machine packed recently, I won't use anything other osmio zero, which we have at home, when I buy a new espresso machine.
> 
> ...


 Thanks will look into the water.

The grinder is part of the next step and the Eureka mignon was the one I had identified but nothing matched my polished chrome gaggia bar perhaps the chrome which is allot more money and hard to find.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

ST30B said:


> Thanks will look into the water.
> 
> The grinder is part of the next step and the Eureka mignon was the one I had identified but nothing matched my polished chrome gaggia bar perhaps the chrome which is allot more money and hard to find.


 This isn't a constraint as you plan to replace the espresso machine.


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## Rudester (Feb 22, 2021)

There's a Marax just gone up for sale in the classified section at £850. I guess witha little negotiation it may fall within your price range.


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Thanks. I wouldn't feel comfortable spending that much money with no warranty.

Seems like new will be the way to go especially considering used prices.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

ST30B said:


> Thanks. I wouldn't feel comfortable spending that much money with no warranty.
> 
> Seems like new will be the way to go especially considering used prices.


 warranty from BB is transferrable.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

ST30B said:


> Just want better tasting espresso, better steam capabilities and the time between making drinks reduced. Its got the Silvia wand and I know the PID would be the MOD upgrade but it's doing it. So just felt like I've been at a crossroads for years now..


 PID will help with steam and temp control for one shot/drink, back to back not so much. I did the PID and was still unhappy because I start the day making 2 milk drinks so went dual boiler (Elizabeth). I also have more control over straight espresso thanks to programmable preinfusion.


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Kjk said:


> PID will help with steam and temp control for one shot/drink, back to back not so much. I did the PID and was still unhappy because I start the day making 2 milk drinks so went dual boiler (Elizabeth). I also have more control over straight espresso thanks to programmable preinfusion.


 How did you find the gaggia after the PID? Significant bump up?

Happy with the Elizabeth?


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

ST30B said:


> How did you find the gaggia after the PID? Significant bump up?
> 
> Happy with the Elizabeth?


 *GCP post PID*: it was nice to have better control over brew boiler temperature and not have to deal with temperature surfing. Steam pressure was greatly improved. It was better but the workflow was still clunky - it is still a SBDU with a tiny boiler that takes time to recover between shots and toggling between brew/steam. If you pull shots in quick succession why compromise and have to wait...

*Elizabeth*: it's great to have steam on demand. The programmable preinfusion is excellent and I feel like I'm getting more out of my coffee. With the GCP I would rarely drink shots by themselves but I've taken to drinking espresso from the Liz. The only thing really holding me back is the grinder as I'd like the flexibility to single dose. This wasn't a concern with the GCP as I was more worried about getting a good shot but you can play around with the parameters of extraction on the Liz, which allows you to more flexibly deal with different types of bean. Waiting for the April Niche delivery!


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

Kjk said:


> *GCP post PID*: it was nice to have better control over brew boiler temperature and not have to deal with temperature surfing. Steam pressure was greatly improved. It was better but the workflow was still clunky - it is still a SBDU with a tiny boiler that takes time to recover between shots and toggling between brew/steam. If you pull shots in quick succession why compromise and have to wait...
> 
> *Elizabeth*: it's great to have steam on demand. The programmable preinfusion is excellent and I feel like I'm getting more out of my coffee. With the GCP I would rarely drink shots by themselves but I've taken to drinking espresso from the Liz. The only thing really holding me back is the grinder as I'd like the flexibility to single dose. This wasn't a concern with the GCP as I was more worried about getting a good shot but you can play around with the parameters of extraction on the Liz, which allows you to more flexibly deal with different types of bean. Waiting for the April Niche delivery!


 Thanks. The more i look into the Elizabeth, the more it sounds like the upgrade i need but can't see me affording that sort of money this year.

Maybe I should consider the gaggia classic upgrade MOD. Does anyone do them on the forum? I was going to reach out to mark (gaggiamanualrepair if he's still operating) for a full service but don't think he would do the MOD.

It just might keep me happy maybe untill I can save up for a better upgrade in time.


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## vct (Apr 13, 2020)

ST30B said:


> Thanks. The more i look into the Elizabeth, the more it sounds like the upgrade i need but can't see me affording that sort of money this year.
> 
> Maybe I should consider the gaggia classic upgrade MOD. Does anyone do them on the forum? I was going to reach out to mark (gaggiamanualrepair if he's still operating) for a full service but don't think he would do the MOD.
> 
> It just might keep me happy maybe untill I can save up for a better upgrade in time.


 Curious to hear what you end up going for as I'm currently in a very similar situation. Debating the merits of self install of a PID vs save the money towards a new machine (not that saving ~£100 gets you much towards the cost of a significant improvement!)


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

I've decided for the time being to take a step back seeking an upgrade. (considering prices of both used and new of the recommendations kindly put forward)

I am going to treat the gaggia to a full service and will likely upgrade my grinder to a Eureka mignon, probably the crono at the prices.

Will take it from there with regards to going for the PID or not.

thanks for everyone taking the time to reply


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## byjoshuawilliams (Nov 25, 2020)

ST30B said:


> I've decided for the time being to take a step back seeking an upgrade. (considering prices of both used and new of the recommendations kindly put forward)
> 
> I am going to treat the gaggia to a full service and will likely upgrade my grinder to a Eureka mignon, probably the crono at the prices.
> 
> ...


 Definitely fit the PID from @mrshades. Makes a massive difference to the quality of the coffee and gives you a machine which can punch above its weight as it were. I'm moving on to dimmer and gauge mod next, which should give me something to suit my needs for a long time. I'm fortunate that atm a single boiler suits me well so can get the best out of my GC.


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## SupraMan (Mar 9, 2021)

I am wondering this too.
At the moment I have a classic with PIDs on brew and steam.

I'm struggling to see what I would actually get by upgrading to something like a Mara?

I can get the point of a DB so I can brew and steam. But what advantage would a HX have other a classic with a PID?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

SupraMan said:


> I am wondering this too.
> At the moment I have a classic with PIDs on brew and steam.
> 
> I'm struggling to see what I would actually get by upgrading to something like a Mara?
> ...


 You can brew and steam at the same time with a heat exchange machine too. You also get much more powerful steam, hot water outlet etc.

That said if you were just an espresso drinker then a Classic with a PID is a great option.


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## SupraMan (Mar 9, 2021)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> You can brew and steam at the same time with a heat exchange machine too. You also get much more powerful steam, hot water outlet etc.
> 
> That said if you were just an espresso drinker then a Classic with a PID is a great option.


 Thank you!
The steam power seems alright on the modded classic, especially with the Silvia wand and a PID. I only ever steam for one . So would I get much of a benefit from an upgrade? I get a really nice microfoam in about 100ml of milk in 30 secs-minute max.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

SupraMan said:


> Thank you!
> The steam power seems alright on the modded classic, especially with the Silvia wand and a PID. I only ever steam for one . So would I get much of a benefit from an upgrade? I get a really nice microfoam in about 100ml of milk in 30 secs-minute max.


 You would see faster steaming results and possibly nicer milk but only you can decide if you think the outlay is worth it for you. By the sounds of it you are happy with the performance of your classic.


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## SupraMan (Mar 9, 2021)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> You would see faster steaming results and possibly nicer milk but only you can decide if you think the outlay is worth it for you. By the sounds of it you are happy with the performance of your classic.


 My only issue with it is how fast them temp drops during the shot, even with a fast reaction on the PID it can't keep up.
Would this be improved with a HX?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

SupraMan said:


> My only issue with it is how fast them temp drops during the shot, even with a fast reaction on the PID it can't keep up.
> Would this be improved with a HX?


 Yes it would. You have a large thermal mass with a decent Hx machine.


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## vct (Apr 13, 2020)

Thank you for the super useful comments @BlackCatCoffee and @SupraMan, it's like you're also answering my inner dialogue at the moment. I realise there's a lot of folks in the same boat wondering what the merits are post Classic but really useful to see the arguments for/against different options to help weigh up the pros/cons for different use cases.


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## SupraMan (Mar 9, 2021)

vct said:


> Thank you for the super useful comments @BlackCatCoffee and @SupraMan, it's like you're also answering my inner dialogue at the moment. I realise there's a lot of folks in the same boat wondering what the merits are post Classic but really useful to see the arguments for/against different options to help weigh up the pros/cons for different use cases.


 I think we sometimes get drawn towards wanting bigger and better things but ignore the potential downsides.

So for instance, one of the major drawbacks of having a lot of thermal mass in a HX or similar is going to be long warm up time to heat it all up, otherwise that thermal mass will act against you to draw heat away.

My classic is good to go in minutes, accellerated with a few empty shots.

The other side is what you want to do with it.

I am not much of an espresso drinker, but I don't know if that is because I haven't been able to make a truly decent one. I.e. does the dropping temp of the gaggia mean that you get a substandard shot from a lighter roast? If you had better temp stability for say the last 10-20ml of a 60ml shot would it be sweeter?

My classic, with both steam and brew PID, upgraded wand and a pressure gauge has come in at less than £200, thanks to picking it up for a bargain many years ago.
I think I would have to move beyond a HX to something like a minima to get a true upgrade for my purposes.


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## Boomingfast (Jan 23, 2018)

Just thought I would chime in here, I used a Gaggia Classic for many years and was very happy with it. I did the silvia steam wand upgrade and the OPV mod and also added the Mr Shades PID.

The PID made a massive difference, I can't recommend fitting one enough. No more sour taste, which I assume was due to the temp'. It is straight forward to do and was a nice little project to keep me busy. I ended up taking the boiler out and refinishing the interface between the boiler and group and fitting new seals. For a year or so i was sorted...But I got the upgrade bug and ended up buying a Mara X and a Specialita.

IMHO the 2 machines both produce really good coffee, the Mara X is certainly not streets ahead of the Gaggia in terms of the Coffee it makes.

If I were to sum up the coffee taste (with milk, I rarely drink espresso) I would say there is a stronger, more intense flavour from the Mara X. Steaming is much better with the Mara X and if you want to you could do back to back shots which is not really possible with the Gaggia. One gripe I had with the Gaggia was by the time I had pulled a shot and waited for steam presssure and steamed the milk I ended up with a coffee that wasn't hot enough. The Mara X is quicker so I end up with a nice hot drink. Obviously the build quality of the Mara X is far superior to the Gaggia and for me it looks better too.

All that said, the Gaggia is still a great machine. If I had to stick with the Gaggia I would be OK with that. If the budget allows for a Gaggia classic with PID and with a good grinder I think the results are hard to beat.

Cheers

Jim


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## ST30B (Mar 4, 2021)

I've got my classic back full serviced from mark.

I am going to hang fire on a PID and see how the boost box develops.

I used to have the same problem with my drinks going cold but the double walled glasses resolved that out!


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