# Coffee strength and how it's perceived



## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Lately, I've been intrigued by people's comments regarding the strength of coffee that they prefer. They don't always mean what we think they mean. I added a blog post on the subject but thought the discussion would be better done in the forum.

I am aware of the technical definition, but am more interested in what the "man-in-the-street" means when they say they prefer their coffee strong. Do they really mean bitterness?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Nice blog post, Ron.

Talking about coffee strength reminds me of that scene in Father Ted where Ted and Father Dougal are in a caravan in a field... Ted holds up two toy cows and says "OK, one last time... these are small, but the ones out there are far away... aach forget it!"

I honestly think that when people say they prefer strong coffee, it's a minority who prefer it bitter. The ones who want it bitter probably add two sugars anyway... they just expect it to pack some sort of punch in comparison with the lightness of tea (unless it's builder's tea!). I think that if you give someone a coffee that is brewed to be in the top right corner of the brew control chart, high TDS and high extraction yield, most will get that punch they are looking for. It looks very dark due to the high solids content, and that alone gives it the perception of strength even before tasting it. And if they still think it's weak after a mouthful then I'd say they don't actually want coffee, keep a bottle of Bitrex under the counter and slip in a capful


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

I like the Bitrex idea









It is funny that when you look at the results of your own marketing exercise, you may not completely understand what the sample were actually trying to tell you. That's the beauty of the English language







We can all have our own way of describing something very commonplace. I suspect that a darker roast will satisfy the strong coffee addicts, one normally roasted for espresso perhaps.

Now, if I could only converse in Gaelic...


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I think I can understand what you're trying to do: How to communicate the aspects of different coffees to customers in a language they will understand (rather than geek-speak), so they can (a) not feel intimidated, and (b) order something that they are more likely to enjoy.

If this is what you're doing then that's brilliant. I'm planning to do just that as a barista, and if there are roasters doing the same then it will help the growth of speciality coffee in the UK.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

The man-in-the-street means 3 teaspoons of Maxwell House which is pretty much what it means to me. :/

Supermarket packets of ground coffee have a strength rating (from 1 to 5 I believe but I don't recall ever seeing a 1 or a 2) which I don't really understand. To my mind an espresso is a stronger coffee than an Americano. A more concentrated coffee is what it means to me.


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## Stevenp6 (May 17, 2011)

The typical man in the street has no taste anyway. Drinks instant coffee with sugar eats pot noodles and watches X-factor.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

The X Factor thing is actually a good way to look at it, I think. And Dancing On Ice. And Pop Star To Opera Star. People aren't watching for the dancing. They're watching to see John Sargeant or Anne Widdecombe looking foolish because it entertains them - but the beautiful byproduct is that the viewers do see dancing/hear opera and some go on to try the real thing because their interest has been raised.

Speciality Coffee could learn a thing or two from Simon Cowell.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> The X Factor ...


Wassat


















MikeHag said:


> ...but the beautiful byproduct is that the viewers do see dancing/hear opera and some go on to try the real thing because their interest has been raised.


Inspiration!



MikeHag said:


> ...Speciality Coffee could learn a thing or two from Simon Cowell.


Take your coffee on TV to be ridiculed by thousands of viewers who haven't a clue what talent is? Or are you alluding to the marketing guru?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Take what you want from my comments Ron.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

No, I'll stick my neck out and elaborate. Clearly I don't mean that a micro-roaster could capture the 7pm saturday night TV slot. But if you can suspend disbelief for a moment, UK TV has been undergoing booming interest in something for the past 10 years or so. Food. Why? Not because of food. Because TV production companies have made boring stuff interesting to joe public. Masterchef. Great British Menu. Ramsays kitchen nightmares. They've all convinced the public that being interested in food is OK. Many of us are proud to be 'foodies' now whereas previously only the French were so obsessive about food quality.

My point about Simon Cowell and the X Factor was that I believe we can, as an industry, make the same cross-over as food has done. We can interest people in what we do, and as a byproduct we can sell more

coffee. Counter-intuitive perhaps, but if we focus less on selling and more on customer-enjoyment then maybe we'll sell more.

Easy...no. Possible...yes. Needs an entrepreneurial spirit...definitely.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> Take what you want from my comments Ron.


So it's not worth my while auditioning as a comedian on X Factor -







tic

Personally, and without the sarcasm, I think TV could do a great deal to encourage a huge coffee culture in UK and perhaps demystify various aspects of it. A short series that starts in the coffee growing areas via buying, roasting, retailing and culture would be a good start. Just showing the care and dedication to quality that goes into providing the paying public's cup of coffee would open some people's eyes.


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## 20Eyes (Mar 16, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> My point about Simon Cowell and the X Factor was that I believe we can, as an industry, make the same cross-over as food has done. We can interest people in what we do, and as a byproduct we can sell more
> 
> coffee. Counter-intuitive perhaps, but if we focus less on selling and more on customer-enjoyment then maybe we'll sell more.
> 
> Easy...no. Possible...yes. Needs an entrepreneurial spirit...definitely.


Mike, I think I know what you're getting at here. Basically, Simon Cowell has no interest whatsoever in trading on the indefinable quality of 'cool' or 'trendy'. He is after mass market saturation with whatever will be most popular and will do whatever is necessary to ensure the most widely acceptable product is put in front of as many people as possible.

Starbucks essentially did that with coffee for the masses, but most of the speciality coffee roasters and coffee shops positively revel in their 'underground chic'. They use the fact that only certain people know about them as their marketing, they crave the exclusivity. All well and good for them, as long as they're paying the bills, but it doesn't move the overall sector forward.

I'm involved in putting on live band events in a certain scene and it reminds me very much of that: if you promote it too much your market often thinks you're just 'in it for the money' and it's not 'cool' enough, as they're so intolerant of anything they perceive as mainstream, and yet they get to a show and there's not many people there they moan that it's not promoted well enough. Conversely, if it's too busy they start whinging that 'everyone' now goes to the shows so they're less hardcore. Basically, you can't win so you may as well just do what works best as you see it.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Forget X-Factor - Someone needs to go onto Dragons den !


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Watching Jonathon Ross and having ideas. Imagine...

- Stephen Fry's World Of Coffee.

The guy can make anything interesting.

I'm not suggesting it should be a real show, but if he could theoretically hold the interest of, say, 3 million viewers on the topic of coffee then baristas and coffee shop owners should be able to interest a few customers.

It bugs me when people in the coffee industry say that theatre has no place in coffee shops, as if their coffee is so good it transcends the need for customer interest. So is there no theatre in Michelin star restaurants?

I'm just saying... products are only part of the equation.

I should probably stop posting after so much wine


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## 20Eyes (Mar 16, 2011)

The two best coffee shops I've ever been in (Stumptown Annex and Heart Coffee Roasters both very much incorporate a degree of theatre and other aspects to the buying/drinking process that go way beyond just shifting bags of beans.

It doesn't seem to put off, or intimidate, casual buyers and definitely adds a whole new dimension for those with a deeper interest.


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## coffeeone (Dec 11, 2011)

It has to incorporate abit of theatre. Coffee can be expensive to buy. if one place is half the price most will go where it is cheaper there has to be a trade off.

There has to be a selling point, you will argue the taste is that, but that comes after you have spent the money. what makes you go in there in the first place and makes you want to go back even if you did not get that god shot?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I can recall introducing a number of people to fresh, well-made coffee and they were all surprised at the taste. They are surprised firstly that it does not need added sugar to make it palatable. I then also hear it being likened to christmas pudding or treacle. Why does the taste of good coffee come as such a surprise to people?


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## Christo (Mar 18, 2016)

Hi Coffee Magic. I'm new to this site. Love this thread but can't find your 'blog post' which I am most interested to read. When I press on the link it takes me to all forum posts :-( Can you tell me how I might get straight to your blog? In anticipation of your help.


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