# Profitec Pro 800



## ATZ

Anyone here using one? Or much experience with them?


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## 4085

I guess the answer will be no, on here and for a good reason. Same price more or less as an LR.....the Londinium range are pretty much undisputed at the top end of the lever market. there are always alternates but are they as good? I think the profitec 800 is basically a dipper which means it draws its water straight from the boiler, so a bit like an HX you have to learn to control that element. Apart from that, it probably comes down to brand loyalty. I know BB had one on demo, and still do so that probably tells you something. On the plus side it is reduced to £2099 with warranty

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/profitec-800-hand-lever-machine-with-pid-control.html


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## ATZ

@dfk41 is there an idiots guide to dipper vs HX in a lever? What does the Londinium run?

It is similar price to the LR, granted. But 400 quid is a fair amount of coffee and it does have some nice engineering, an insulated boiler and a PID. I'm unsure of the utility of the latter on a lever mind.


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## 4085

My lever knowledge has not kept up to date with the new LR I am afraid. On the old L1, the boiler ran a thermosyphon loop through the group and back to the boiler which meant that water constantly circulated in it. This did away with the need for a cooling shot, in fact, quite the reverse as on occasion, the syphon stalled meaning a short pull was needed to increase the water temp.

The new LR works totally differently I think and am sure others will explain. The LR system does not need a pid though and really am not sure what purpose it fulfils on the 800. Go to BB if you can and have a play and if you declare the area in which you live I am sure a Londinium owner would only be too happy to show you their gear. There is no right or wrong in all of this. the only place that opinion matters in is a court of law!


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## Stanic

There is lot of info over at the home barista forum, also few videos on YouTube (





 is nice) , also there is the parts diagram available.

It is a traditional dipper with PID control.

I've had a chance to use it twice at a barista training centre for several hours, making around 50 drinks both times, with frothing milk. It worked like a charm, looks great and when plumbed in, its completely silent.

The coffee it made was great.


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## Thecatlinux

Here is an explanation how the l1 works https://londiniumespresso.com/news/schematic-diagram-for-londinium-i


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## ATZ

So thanks to the helpful @PPapa I'm actually picking one of these up in a few weeks.

Low usage from a small tea room with 6months of BB warranty remaining.

Has anyone any tips on operation? Any other pro 800 owners on here?


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## PPapa

Is it the same group as L-R? You might want to pick up 35um IMS shower screen.


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## ATZ

PPapa said:


> Is it the same group as L-R? You might want to pick up 35um IMS shower screen.


Same group I believe? Or very very similar.


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## 4085

https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/profitec-pro-800-review-t44660.html


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## ATZ

dfk41 said:


> https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/profitec-pro-800-review-t44660.html


So it's a Bosco Group, is this what a Londinium uses?


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## 4085

Yep, same group as the Bosco but a different approach to the Londinium 1 (originals) that controlled water temp via a thermosyphon


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## ATZ

dfk41 said:


> Yep, same group as the Bosco but a different approach to the Londinium 1 (originals) that controlled water temp via a thermosyphon


So because it's a straight dipper you would not want to run a cooling shot. Quite the opposite as the group provides some cooling due to its mass?


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## 4085

When I had a Bosco, I am fairly sure a cooling shot was needed. Does the water not just sit in the group as opposed to returning in a loop to the boiler. I am afraid I cannot remember but I am sure there are plenty who know more than me on this topic and will put me right


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## ATZ

dfk41 said:


> When I had a Bosco, I am fairly sure a cooling shot was needed. Does the water not just sit in the group as opposed to returning in a loop to the boiler. I am afraid I cannot remember but I am sure there are plenty who know more than me on this topic and will put me right


The Bosco has a little reservoir behind the group head prior to the boiler, where as the Pro 800 the boiler is connected direct to the group via the neck.

Learnt this via that HB link you put up and some sub links based off that.

Concerns seems to be it need a warming shot after significant time idlelling.


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## ATZ

Would there be anyway to prevent or to pipe this water from the expansion valve away?


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## Nicknak

Not sure if interchangeable but on the Profitec 700 it is directed to the drip tray ..

Not sure why they didn't do it on the 800


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## MediumRoastSteam

That's annoying.... I used to own a P700 and, even though it was channel to just above the drip tray, the water would spray on the body instead. The paranoid me forged a little ptfe ornament to channel it into the drip tray so no water on the body.


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## ashcroc

ATZ said:


> Would there be anyway to prevent or to pipe this water from the expansion valve away?


It's not much before the pressure seals the valve but it would annoy me a bit too. Maybe fabricate a metal dish to catch it with a removable lid resting on top (to direct the spits but also so you can check the valves operation easily) would work? The heat from the boiler would evaporate it off.


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## ATZ

3 weeks until I pick one of these up. Is there anything you lever heads can recommend I need moving from a pump machine?


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## ATZ

Ok, so I'm picking this up on Saturday and yes, I'm excited.

Question for you the forum. As I understand it, the point of the group head on lever dipper machine like the Pro 800 is to act as a heat sink to reduce the temperature of the water that arrives directly from the boiler but too hot to brew without the group heat shedding. Therefore it follows on that the longer the water spends in the group head pre infusing, the more heat it will shed.

On that latter point am I right in thinking I'd want to keep pre-infusion time relatively short for lighter roasts to prevent heat loss? I guess you can also crank up the PID on these to ensure incoming water is as hot as possible.


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## ajohn

dfk41 said:


> https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/profitec-pro-800-review-t44660.html


Thanks. That explains it well. Same arrangement as the Fracino Retro. Surprised by the suggested heat up time as the group looks to be directly bolted to the boiler.

John

-


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## ATZ

ajohn said:


> Thanks. That explains it well. Same arrangement as the Fracino Retro. Surprised by the suggested heat up time as the group looks to be directly bolted to the boiler.
> 
> John
> 
> -


It is, but the group weighs nearly 8kg so it's a lot of mass to warm up and it warms by conduction rather than a thermosyphon.


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## filthynines

Sorry for lumping in far too late on what is now a completely ancillary issue, but won't the remaining BB warranty be voided since the machine was used in a commercial setting? Hopefully you never have to use it, but I like to point it out.

Beyond that, congrats on the new machine and I'll watch your learning curve with interest!


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## ATZ

filthynines said:


> Sorry for lumping in far too late on what is now a completely ancillary issue, but won't the remaining BB warranty be voided since the machine was used in a commercial setting? Hopefully you never have to use it, but I like to point it out.
> 
> Beyond that, congrats on the new machine and I'll watch your learning curve with interest!


Oh thanks!

Should I need to call in the warranty I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.


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## ATZ

ATZ said:


> Ok, so I'm picking this up on Saturday and yes, I'm excited.
> 
> Question for you the forum. As I understand it, the point of the group head on lever dipper machine like the Pro 800 is to act as a heat sink to reduce the temperature of the water that arrives directly from the boiler but too hot to brew without the group heat shedding. Therefore it follows on that the longer the water spends in the group head pre infusing, the more heat it will shed.
> 
> On that latter point am I right in thinking I'd want to keep pre-infusion time relatively short for lighter roasts to prevent heat loss? I guess you can also crank up the PID on these to ensure incoming water is as hot as possible.


 @coffeechap any thoughts on my line of reasoning here?


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## PPapa

What's the expected loss of temperature in a fairly heavy and warm group? It's going to be similar to losing heat in the basket too, isn't it? Smaller area, of course...

If you read long enough, you'll find someone suggesting that declining pressure and temperature profile is what you want. Is it true? I'd rather sleep at night than think about it!


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## NickR

One of the issues with an original L1 is the tiny shot volumes - about 40g absolute max. This is due to the low pre infusion pressure. It will be interesting to see if the Profitec suffers from the same draw back.


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## ATZ

NickR said:


> One of the issues with an original L1 is the tiny shot volumes - about 40g absolute max. This is due to the low pre infusion pressure. It will be interesting to see if the Profitec suffers from the same draw back.


I wouldn't call 40g "a tiny shot" but I've read people getting up to 60g out. With the PID you can up boiler pressure quite easily on the Pro 800.


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## ATZ

NickR said:


> One of the issues with an original L1 is the tiny shot volumes - about 40g absolute max. This is due to the low pre infusion pressure. It will be interesting to see if the Profitec suffers from the same draw back.


Just as an update on this I can get 60g out of my Pro 800 no problem, running the boiler at 1.1 bar or 121c on the PID


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## NickR

ATZ said:


> Just as an update on this I can get 60g out of my Pro 800 no problem, running the boiler at 1.1 bar or 121c on the PID


Thanks ATZ, very interesting. There is no way an L1 could achieve that, particularly at that boiler pressure. I can't explain it, but I suspect that its because the Pro is a dipper and the L1 a thermosyphon.


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## PPapa

I can pull 1:3 shots with 18g VST on LR, which totals into 54g volume.

It's close to the max volume, but there's probably 5 or so grams left. I can give it a go, I guess!


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## ATZ

PPapa said:


> I can pull 1:3 shots with 18g VST on LR, which totals into 54g volume.
> 
> It's close to the max volume, but there's probably 5 or so grams left. I can give it a go, I guess!


Out of interest is there any benefit to pulling longer ratio shots? I was under the impression the coffee woukd blonde.


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## coffeechap

Sometimes the best extraction ratios are longer it all depends on the coffee and the grinder


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## NickR

Accidental repeat post


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## ATZ

So I gave the piston a first full service since picking this up. As you can see it was pretty cruddy and over lubed, don't think the previous owner had looked at it but it does explain the excess of lubricant that was on the shower screen when I got it.

I also took the opportunity to replace the stock rubber seals and shower screen with the Cafelat versions. Very impressed with the speed these were shipped from HK. The cafelat screen should, in theory, give a better distribution of water as the E61 deadspot has been taken out.

Cleaning up was the messy bit, very easy to install otherwise.


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## PPapa

How's the portafilter gasket, if you got one?


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## ATZ

PPapa said:


> How's the portafilter gasket, if you got one?


It's a lot tighter, I'm sure there'll be some more give over time.


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## PPapa

Thanks Aled. Might just order a set.

Interesting to see the double spring as well!


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## ATZ

PPapa said:


> Thanks Aled. Might just order a set.
> 
> Interesting to see the double spring as well!


Service was really good from Cafelat, would recommend.

I've seen videos of people removing the double spring on these as apparently peak pressure is closer to 11-12bar rather than the 9 you get on single sprung Londinium.


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## PPapa

ATZ, did your portafilter gasket wear in after a while? Mine feels supper grabby - from zero grip at 7:30 o'clock to fully locked at 7 o'clock!

It just feels kind of weird to have so little play. It's been on only for two days and I can't exactly remember how the original gasket progressed.


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## bigsav

I've seen a secondhand pro 800 for sale at around £1k. Two years old - seems to have been well looked after.

Anything I should look out for? Is this a good price? I don't often see machines of this quality for sale nearby and I doubt I'd ever buy at full price so I'm really tempted!

Is this is as well-built as it lasts? It looks bomb-proof!

The sheer size and warm-up time put me off slightly but would love to hear thoughts from anyone who has experience with this machine.

Sorry for all the questions - just trying to make my own mind up before I begin trying to convince my wife!

Sav


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## ATZ

bigsav said:


> I've seen a secondhand pro 800 for sale at around £1k. Two years old - seems to have been well looked after.
> 
> Anything I should look out for? Is this a good price? I don't often see machines of this quality for sale nearby and I doubt I'd ever buy at full price so I'm really tempted!
> 
> Is this is as well-built as it lasts? It looks bomb-proof!
> 
> The sheer size and warm-up time put me off slightly but would love to hear thoughts from anyone who has experience with this machine.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions - just trying to make my own mind up before I begin trying to convince my wife!
> 
> Sav


Most Lever machines of this quality go for around that money, there's a lot of engineering and quality components that have gone into them.

Less than half price at only 2 years old is pretty decent value if you think about it.

I can confirm I'm really impressed by the build. Mine is now approaching 2 years old and doesn't miss a beat. Key things are regular weekly cleaning and to clean/lub the piston around 12monthly. You might want to ask about this on the machine you're interested in.

My missus wasn't keen on the size either (there's a first haha!) But warm up times are easy to combat with a smart/wifi plug. I have mine set to come on at 5am pre morning shots and 4pm pre tea time coffee. Weekends it stays on all day.

Feel free to ask anything else @bigsav


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## bigsav

ATZ said:


> Most Lever machines of this quality go for around that money, there's a lot of engineering and quality components that have gone into them.
> 
> Less than half price at only 2 years old is pretty decent value if you think about it.
> 
> I can confirm I'm really impressed by the build. Mine is now approaching 2 years old and doesn't miss a beat. Key things are regular weekly cleaning and to clean/lub the piston around 12monthly. You might want to ask about this on the machine you're interested in.
> 
> My missus wasn't keen on the size either (there's a first haha!) But warm up times are easy to combat with a smart/wifi plug. I have mine set to come on at 5am pre morning shots and 4pm pre tea time coffee. Weekends it stays on all day.
> 
> Feel free to ask anything else @bigsav


Thanks ATZ, that's good info!

I had been thinking about WiFi plugs to sort the long warm up time problem. Do you find leaving it on all day at the weekend is hard on electricity?

Could you measure the height with the lever in the up position? And if you had any photos of it in place it would be great to see how it fits in a kitchen!

Thanks,

Sav


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## ATZ

bigsav said:


> Thanks ATZ, that's good info!
> 
> I had been thinking about WiFi plugs to sort the long warm up time problem. Do you find leaving it on all day at the weekend is hard on electricity?
> 
> Could you measure the height with the lever in the up position? And if you had any photos of it in place it would be great to see how it fits in a kitchen!
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sav


Once up to temperature it doesn't really expend all that much energy, certainly nothing significant that has left me querying something on my electricity bill.

Height to the op of the lever is 730mm, so Ideally you want it away from overhead cupboards to prevent conflict there.

You can see what my set up looks like here. I have it sitting adjacent to our breakfast bar.


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## Stanic

I think you should get it it's a pretty good price for this great machine


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## bigsav

Stanic said:


> I think you should get it it's a pretty good price for this great machine


It's really tempting! However, the seller seems to have stopped communicating so I don't know if it's still available.

I also don't have a good enough grinder at the minute and buying this would prevent any further coffee purchase for a while! My Wilfa Svart just wouldn't cut it on the Profitec so it could be a long road before I would really start to enjoy it!

And it's enormous so Mrs Sav may have an issue or two about it dominating the kitchen!

If nothing comes of the Profitec, I may hold off until the Londinium C becomes a reality.

Or get a nice refurbed La Pavoni Europiccola?

Too many options!

Thanks for the replies!

Sav


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## bigsav

ATZ said:


> You can see what my set up looks like here. I have it sitting adjacent to our breakfast bar.


I'm hoping to go for the Niche at some point soon too! It looks well beside the Profitec!

Thanks for your help!

Sav


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## semicolon1

ATZ said:


> bigsav said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've seen a secondhand pro 800 for sale at around £1k. Two years old - seems to have been well looked after. Anything I should look out for? Is this a good price? I don't often see machines of this quality for sale nearby and I doubt I'd ever buy at full price so I'm really tempted! Is this is as well-built as it lasts? It looks bomb-proof! The sheer size and warm-up time put me off slightly but would love to hear thoughts from anyone who has experience with this machine. Sorry for all the questions - just trying to make my own mind up before I begin trying to convince my wife! Sav
> 
> 
> 
> Most Lever machines of this quality go for around that money, there's a lot of engineering and quality components that have gone into them. Less than half price at only 2 years old is pretty decent value if you think about it. I can confirm I'm really impressed by the build. Mine is now approaching 2 years old and doesn't miss a beat. Key things are regular weekly cleaning and to clean/lub the piston around 12monthly. You might want to ask about this on the machine you're interested in. My missus wasn't keen on the size either (there's a first haha!) But warm up times are easy to combat with a smart/wifi plug. I have mine set to come on at 5am pre morning shots and 4pm pre tea time coffee. Weekends it stays on all day. Feel free to ask anything else @bigsav
Click to expand...

 Had my Pro 800 for a year now. Love it. And the warm-up time (120 volts in the States) is about 20 minutes. Not bad compared to other machines I've had.


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## MediumRoastSteam

semicolon1 said:


> Had my Pro 800 for a year now. Love it. And the warm-up time (120 volts in the States) is about 20 minutes. Not bad compared to other machines I've had.


How long until the group gets to temperature? I doubt it's 20 minutes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## WelshMcSpicy

I just got my Pro 800 - big boy move from a Barista Express. I set the timer switch to come on an hour before I use it but I'm finding around 40 mins gets the pressure up to 1.3 bars or so, the PID up to 248F, and the group really bloody hot.

Using it for a few days now, haven't managed to dial it in yet. I'm starting off trying to reproduce my go-to from the Barista - 18g in, 18g out in around 30s for a great cappuccino that has great body and with a crema that holds up nicely for latte art.

However, I'm not there. It's coming out milky and lacking body. Not sure (yet) whether its the extraction or my inability to get decent micro foam yet. I'm going to reduce the variables next by pulling on the Profitec, but steaming milk on the Barista so I'm certain the milk is on point.

Anyone out there migrated similarly with similar challenges?

Thanks


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## MediumRoastSteam

WelshMcSpicy said:


> I just got my Pro 800 - big boy move from a Barista Express. I set the timer switch to come on an hour before I use it but I'm finding around 40 mins gets the pressure up to 1.3 bars or so, the PID up to 248F, and the group really bloody hot.
> 
> Using it for a few days now, haven't managed to dial it in yet. I'm starting off trying to reproduce my go-to from the Barista - 18g in, 18g out in around 30s for a great cappuccino that has great body and with a crema that holds up nicely for latte art.
> 
> However, I'm not there. It's coming out milky and lacking body. Not sure (yet) whether its the extraction or my inability to get decent micro foam yet. I'm going to reduce the variables next by pulling on the Profitec, but steaming milk on the Barista so I'm certain the milk is on point.
> 
> Anyone out there migrated similarly with similar challenges?
> 
> Thanks


 Which grinder? Which coffee? Pre-infuse (hold the lever down for 10 seconds or so) and then let it do it's job. Aim 35-40 seconds total time (from the moment the lever is all the way down) as a starting point, the ratio.


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## WelshMcSpicy

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which grinder? Which coffee? Pre-infuse (hold the lever down for 10 seconds or so) and then let it do it's job. Aim 35-40 seconds total time (from the moment the lever is all the way down) as a starting point, the ratio.


 Thanks for the reply.

I'm using a Baraza Sette 30 grinder. I roast my own beans and I'm currently using an El Salvador Finca La Siberia Bourbon that I roasted on the darker side to around City+.

I pre-infused for around 4 or 5 seconds. I should have been closer to 10 to try and keep the variables to a minimum comparing to the Barista - that has a pre-infusion of around 9s. But then yes - I let it do its job and pulled the shot at around 30s.

Thanks.


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## tripleshot

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which grinder? Which coffee? Pre-infuse (hold the lever down for 10 seconds or so) and then let it do it's job. Aim 35-40 seconds total time (from the moment the lever is all the way down) as a starting point, the ratio.


 I may have missed it in the thread but is this water tank or plumbed in? I have the Profitec Pro 700 which I'm using water tank mode but thought pre-infusion is pointless unless machine is plumbed in which is why I never bothered to look into it. Am I missing a trick?


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## WelshMcSpicy

tripleshot said:


> I may have missed it in the thread but is this water tank or plumbed in? I have the Profitec Pro 700 which I'm using water tank mode but thought pre-infusion is pointless unless machine is plumbed in which is why I never bothered to look into it. Am I missing a trick?


 I'm using the water tank. Perhaps what I'm doing is not true pre-infusion. When I pull the lever down all the way, I was keeping it there for X seconds. Perhaps that's not pre-infusion, just filling the chamber. The longer I leave it there, the more water flows into the chamber? If so, then I guess I'm not pre-infusing at all lol.


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## MediumRoastSteam

tripleshot said:


> I may have missed it in the thread but is this water tank or plumbed in? I have the Profitec Pro 700 which I'm using water tank mode but thought pre-infusion is pointless unless machine is plumbed in which is why I never bothered to look into it. Am I missing a trick?


 Yes you are. A very obvious one. 😉😊 - Google up Profitec 800. Then re-read your post.


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## MediumRoastSteam

WelshMcSpicy said:


> I'm using the water tank. Perhaps what I'm doing is not true pre-infusion


 You are doing pre-infusion at boiler pressure. You two are comparing apples and pears.😊👍

grinder wise... your new machine may me more picky than your previous one. You might need to upgrade your grinder. It feels to me you should grinder finer. In any case, why not post a video of your routine and let the lever enthusiasts here help you?


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## tripleshot

My bad, didn't realise how different the 800 is to the 700. As you were 😄


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## WelshMcSpicy

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You are doing pre-infusion at boiler pressure. You two are comparing apples and pears.😊👍
> 
> grinder wise... your new machine may me more picky than your previous one. You might need to upgrade your grinder. It feels to me you should grinder finer. In any case, why not post a video of your routine and let the lever enthusiasts here help you?


 Great idea. I'll try to rig that up. While I'm at the keyboard, my morning espresso was pretty much the same as when I last posted. I extended pre-infusion (left the lever down) for around 10s. Still lacking in body for sure, little crema. I also tried a finer grind. The extraction began slow - dripping. After about 15s I got a steady stream. 18g in, 18g out in about 65s. If I grind any finer, my guess is it would choke.

WTS I'll try to record the routine and refrain from guessing 

Thanks for the suggestions all.


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