# End Game Kit



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

All of us have a different perspective of "end game equipment" and for different reasons. It's one of the things that drives the diversity in equipment available to us. Otherwise, there would only be one grinder and one machine that could be categorised as "end game" many of you may already own your end game machine and grinder. Whatever your level of experience...whatever your budget.

*What currently do you see as your end game equipment and even more importantly....why?*


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## spasypaddy (Apr 11, 2016)

i wish i had the money to spend £1500 on a machine, but i just dont ever see that happening. So sadly i think until my Silvia stops working it may well be my end game equipment matched with a eureka specialita.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

spasypaddy said:


> i wish i had the money to spend £1500 on a machine, but i just dont ever see that happening. So sadly i think until my Silvia stops working it may well be my end game equipment matched with a eureka specialita.


 Nothing wrong in that...but what would you buy if you had that £1500, or even more...it's about whatever you would feel comfortable spending one day and what you would want to spend it on..not necessarily "skys the limit" money.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Well, i've no clue because i am only just beginning but, i imagine, as in most wormholes like this one, that most aficionados end up going full circle.

I've seen it with many hobbies where the enthusiast gets to the summit and realises that the view is actually better in the valleys.

So, where is that with espresso? I dunno. A Pavoni and be done?


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## spasypaddy (Apr 11, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Nothing wrong in that...but what would you buy if you had that £1500, or even more...it's about whatever you would feel comfortable spending one day and what you would want to spend it on..not necessarily "skys the limit" money.


 i know there are better value for money machines out there but i love the look of the rocket range but i think thats because as a cyclist i follow a lot of cyclists on social media so have been brainwashed into them ha

id probably come here and ask for recommendations at a price point if i was buying and then buy something sexy.

Money (and space) no object a slayer


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@DavecUK - Pretty much end gamed on my side for the foreseeable future unless I get a much larger kitchen and a car first! 😂

Hit the diminishing returns point on coffee machines for cost vs. size after I could do flow profiling on my Mara with a Bianca paddle and kitted our my Pav with the CS bits.

If/when they break irreparably it might be a DB or a spring lever but not anything planned and I'm happy with my set up.

- Grinder - EK43S Turkish and Niche, big flat and nice conical so all bases covered including V60

- Flow/pressure profiling machines - Lelit Mara PL62 with paddle and La Pav Europiccola millennium with full brew and steam pressure kit


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Reached my end game on the machine - Lelit Bianca.

My upgraditus might kick in on the grinder, but I'd have to do some serious testing to prove to myself that a big flat suits my tastes better than a Niche. I've never had a serious look at what options there are in the high-end large flat market, but off the top of my head, and as someone who only ever single doses, possibly a Ceado E37Z Hero or a Monolith Flat Max.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

On the horizon, I can see the Profitec 800, but slowly it is getting a company - the DE machine.

Would love to have a plumbed-in Bosco group dipper, because I have hands on experience with the 800 and it is a great machine, makes excellent coffee and frothing was a pleasure. Completely silent when plumbed in. Slightly bigger than I would like though, lot of time and energy for heating up.

The Decent looks like a hell of a machine, especially the last version with manual controls on the grouphead. It is also very small. The pump noise is what I don't like, but could live with it if the coffee is great, which it apparently is.

As for the grinder?

Probably the Monolith Max, idk

I also like the Lagom 64, nice design


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

For machine, I am already there - LR.

For grinder - I am very happy with etzMax, but if I had unlimited budget, I would like to have one more grinder: Monolith Max with SSP burrs.

And IKawa Pro for home roasting.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stanic said:


> On the horizon, I can see the Profitec 800, but slowly it is getting a company - the DE machine.
> 
> Would love to have a plumbed-in Bosco group dipper, because I have hands on experience with the 800 and it is a great machine, makes excellent coffee and frothing was a pleasure. Completely silent when plumbed in. Slightly bigger than I would like though, lot of time and energy for heating up.


 Proftec do make a nice looking lever don't they, one would think it would have the same sort of quality as other ECM/Profitec built stuff. I would imagine they could do even more with the development of that lever, if they thought there was a bigger market for 1 group lever machines.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Proftec do make a nice looking lever don't they, one would think it would have the same sort of quality as other ECM/Profitec built stuff. I would imagine they could do even more with the development of that lever, if they thought there was a bigger market for 1 group lever machines.


 That's the point - I don't think there is a huge market in this area. Also with their simplicity and lower maintenance needs, once you have a lever, you're done for a couple of years apparently 🙂

Can't remember reading about issues with the Profitec 800 on any of the forums.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stanic said:


> Can't remember reading about issues with the Profitec 800 on any of the forums.


 Perhaps not many have them, certainly they are hardly mentioned on this forum....


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## DDoe (May 25, 2019)

I started with a Mara and Specialta in May last year and, as long as I can keep it going, I think it's my end game. I'm no spring chicken so it should last me out.

I don't see coffee as a hobby, I just want to make a flat white/cappuccino as best I can without investing too much of myself in the process. Most of the time I'm happy with the drinks I make and have no desire to take it further. Any higher spec. machinery would be a waste of money for me I think.

I did add a Macap mechanical tamper to the coffee corner earlier this year which has made my shots much more consistant. I was struggling with tamping and, rather than faff about improving my technique, I took an easy way out. In my defence I do have a dodgy wrist and I needed to come up with something for a birthday present 😉👍.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

:classic_laugh:


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Something beautiful that has been restored and customised with lots of boiler polishing, glass panels and hand turned wood. Definitely a lever machine.

I am probably not who you are aiming this question at though! 😁


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I am probably not who you are aiming this question at though! 😁


 Why would you say that....it's not really "aimed at anyone" apart from people who love coffee. It might be their endgame is a V60 and a porlex..... or a Nespresso machine.


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## ooglewoogle (Oct 2, 2018)

Some days I think it would be hard to justify beyond our Synchronika/Mythos combo...but there is so much sexy stuff out there....it's hard to never say never.

The gravemetrics of the Mythos 2 are very attractive to me and I hope this is tech that finds it's way into other high-end grinders.

I think auto flow-profiling would be fun.....but I waste enough coffee buggering about with dial-in just now....I can only imagine the bean-budget I would need. Maybe one day.

I like the idea of a nice vintage lever....fond memories of Danny and his old Gaggia Visacrem.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

End game for me is probably less, not more. The "more" I get, the more I recognise I enjoy making and drinking a simple filter coffee. I like making espresso at home, I also like milk drinks and appreciate the machinery involved in espresso. Right now I work flexibly and have the time not to rush it all in the morning. I also like the bravado of all the gear, there's a reason these machines take such prominence in our kitchens after all....

But do I enjoy this in the same way I do making and drinking a V60? No.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Probably a Decent with a monolith max... Or some sexy Titus EK.

Decent for me seems like it'll do everything you could possibly want, but you can also just pick a profile and hit 'go' if you don't want to go full nerd.

Other option would be a really decent lever machine with selectable temperature etc. I'd love a lever.

They're totally different ends of the spectrum, but I kind of want both...


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Coming from the world of bikes and triathlon there is definitely no 'end game kit' this may not be true for coffee mind you!

There is the kit you *think* is end game, you gradually upgrade (or go to a shop with your credit card and spaff a few months wages on a bling setup)
But there is always more stuff, there is always something better or different.

When you get the end-game carbon superlight bike (e.g. Decent espresso) you love it for a while and then you decide you fancy something steel framed that feels more traditional (La Pavoni) but then you try the steel and you realise why they make carbon bikes and you want something which has traditional elements that feel more *real* and won't fall apart so you get titanium (I dunno, Londinium?). This feels like the end game, and for many it is.

Maybe you change your mind and lust after something Italian like the Pinerello (Marzocco), but then you get it and you realise it's all style over substance and the latest model (mini) is just barn door ugly as f*ck.

Then you decide this is all pointless, sell the lot, have a mid-life crisis, buy a boat and live on it with an aeropress and a hand grinder


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It is really interesting to see how many folk through the years have actually binned the espresso gear and hone to a simple brewed set up, perhaps that is the end game, enjoying getting the finesse from coffee.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> It is really interesting to see how many folk through the years have actually binned the espresso gear and hone to a simple brewed set up, perhaps that is the end game, enjoying getting the finesse from coffee.


 I have to say there is a lot of truth in what you're saying , easily the most proficient use of good coffee.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Dunno... Seriously I have no idea.

I enjoy my La Pavoni Europicola and Niche combo which @Blue_Cafe mentions when going full circle.

I've had a Speedster, now got a Slayer so I guess an 'End Game' machine would be a totally customised Slayer with external pump, mixed water outlet.. Basically one of Frank's creations. I miss the quietness of an external pump that can be put in a cupboard instead of the comparatively loud pump of what I have now.

I think the only thing left as an 'End Game' piece of kit would be a different grinder.

Maybe a Titus, a Monolith Max, EG-1.. Although I have no idea. Have already got a Versalab (love/hate relationship tbh), Mazzer Major, Niche. Have had an EK43 with Turkish burrs, although an EK43s with some specialist burrs, or maybe a Nautilus (if money no object).

Thing is if I sold the M3 I'd probably end up missing it.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> It is really interesting to see how many folk through the years have actually binned the espresso gear and hone to a simple brewed set up, perhaps that is the end game, enjoying getting the finesse from coffee.


 Really enjoying a simple V60 at the minute, so can understand how folks could easily go down that path.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Funny enough I quite liked the Idea of a Manument lever, really looked the dogs danglies when I played around with one. However the height of it means a dedicated space...which I tried hard to make...and failed.

https://manument.com/en/manument-leva-machine

Quite Liked the idea of a Lagom or a Bentwood...simply because so many people have a monolith, it's getting a bit commonplace...


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Does anyone on here have a Lagom? Did they even start shipping them?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

To say a little truth I drink more brewed than anything thing. I want a good grinder they are 3k. But there are a coue of other cheaper out there. Big and Flat.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Does anyone on here have a Lagom? Did they even start shipping them?


 They are definitely out in the wild now as I have seen a user on Facebook with one


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Why would you say that....it's not really "aimed at anyone" apart from people who love coffee. It might be their endgame is a V60 and a porlex..... or a Nespresso machine.


 Purely as I am thinking in terms of commercial. I just assumed you were after domestic. 😀


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

I must admit since selling my L1 last year I thought I'd miss it loads but not as much as I thought. The idea was finish my kitchen extension then treat myself to a shiny new leva that would be my end game set up but Covid-19 has delayed my build project until next spring so I've succumbed to joys of brewed coffee, and you know what ! I'm enjoying it. I will have a leva again but I'm in no real rush..

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Soll said:


> I must admit since selling my L1 last year I thought I'd miss it loads but not as much as I thought. The idea was finish my kitchen extension then treat myself to a shiny new leva that would be my end game set up but Covid-19 has delayed my build project until next spring so I've succumbed to joys of brewed coffee, and you know what ! I'm enjoying it. I will have a leva again but I'm in no real rush..


 The great thing is you will get a chance to try out the latest greatest Londinium, or perhaps an even better lever.....who knows?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Purely as I am thinking in terms of commercial. I just assumed you were after domestic. 😀


 For some people the end game used to be a commercial machine..back in the day and perhaps even still today.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> For some people the end game used to be a commercial machine..back in the day and perhaps even still today.


 Very true!


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

This looks like a nice leva


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I will always keep at least one of my Pavonis and maybe the Niche but a realistic end game that I hope to get at some stage is a Vesuvius and EK43 probably with Turkish burrs.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

coffeechap said:


> It is really interesting to see how many folk through the years have actually binned the espresso gear and hone to a simple brewed set up, perhaps that is the end game, enjoying getting the finesse from coffee.


 "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

Leonardo Da Vinci


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Nicknak said:


> This looks like a nice leva
> 
> View attachment 43594


 It has it paired to a lagom 64 as well as a niche


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

coffeechap said:


> It has it paired to a lagom 64 as well as a niche


 That would be a good match 🥴


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

I still can't forgive LM for making that thing, all the see through plastic parts look so cheap...

It's like the just threw their workshop odds and ends draw at it or released it on April the 1st and then decided to charge about £15k for it 😢


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

It's hideous!


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

I have no itch to replace my 2014 Londinium 1 or my early version Monolith Flat (with Mythos burrs). The combination is so reliable that my focus now is on coffees - single origins and blends - how to roast them and how to dial them in.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Northern_Monkey said:


> I still can't forgive LM for making that thing, all the see through plastic parts look so cheap...
> 
> It's like the just threw their workshop odds and ends draw at it or released it on April the 1st and then decided to charge about £15k for it 😢





mctrials23 said:


> It's hideous!


 That is what makes life interesting , we all like different things ..


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nicknak said:


> That is what makes life interesting , we all like different things ..


 Exactly what I said at the beginning...but isn't it interesting to see the very broad range of what's considered endgame, rather than the usual equipment people used to mention. I think it reflects just how diverse tastes and opinions have become.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Nicknak said:


> That is what makes life interesting , we all like different things ..


 Too true - I can see a custom Slayer somewhere in the future, while Ian is more than happy with our current set-up! I don't think it can possibly have anything to do with having to get half the kitchen re-vamped at great cost to accommodate a Slayer. No that can't be it al all 😂


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## siliconslave (Feb 18, 2020)

Being a bit of a techie i do like the idea of the Decent & the design of the EG-1 onyx but can't really justify the cost of either let alone both 

There is a part of me that would love one of the stupidly large bronze Elektra daleks, but not sure I could swing getting a chunk of the kitchen cut out to fit it


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

I can't see myself changing from the L1, Compak E8 and the Gene Cafe. I like the design and simplicity of the L1 and don't think that 'upgrading' to the LR with its electronics, or any other machine would be of any benefit to me. The limiting factor in the quality of espresso made is me, and effort and technique are the next steps. The law of diminishing returns certainly applies here and I am not sure that I could tell the difference in the cup should I ever upgrade. Never say never though.


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

Nicknak said:


> This looks like a nice leva
> 
> <img alt="8FEDB0AD-8FBE-4551-8241-1F85F273B4BA.thumb.jpeg.b08e8022185a70b0332c3fbdc2f7653b.jpeg" data-fileid="43594" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_08/8FEDB0AD-8FBE-4551-8241-1F85F273B4BA.thumb.jpeg.b08e8022185a70b0332c3fbdc2f7653b.jpeg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Looks like an industrial circuit breaker...... When you throw it does someone somewhere get electrocuted

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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Exactly what I said at the beginning...but isn't it interesting to see the very broad range of what's considered endgame, rather than the usual equipment people used to mention. I think it reflects just how diverse tastes and opinions have become.


 Yes and we should celebrate those choices others make whether it is a Sage , Lelit , LM etc etc and not judge those choices


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

What never ceases to amaze me is that the market continues to support such a huge array of choice and diversity when it comes to equipment. Let us hope that this situation continues.

Regards,
John


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Ozzyjohn said:


> What never ceases to amaze me is that the market continues to support such a huge array of choice and diversity when it comes to equipment. Let us hope that this situation continues.
> 
> Regards,
> John


 It will as long as people keep buying stuff and the manufacturers continue to take the retail market seriously. Fortunately many good ones do, so we have some great choices in the prosumer space. It was very different even 17 years ago.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

My endgame daydreams vary according to mood. A Slayer or Speedster are high up the list as is a Bosco lever.
I'm pretty happy with my Niche grinder but do hanker after a Mythos.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I suppose this boils down to what is end game? I love the versatility and industry leading tech in the LR24, it is capable of amazing coffee and coupled to the ceado e37znaked was awesome, however I also truly enjoy the simplicity of a caravel paired with a decent hand grinder or a simple long steep french press.

So end game will certainly be different for everyone.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

Can't see me changing machine any time soon but I do have my eye on a levercraft ultra


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mmmatron said:


> Can't see me changing machine any time soon but I do have my eye on a levercraft ultra


 Looks ultra impressive is the large black box beside it the motor control unit?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Rob666 said:


> My endgame daydreams vary according to mood. A Slayer or Speedster are high up the list as is a Bosco lever.
> I'm pretty happy with my Niche grinder but do hanker after a Mythos.


 Mythos is great for one bean that's it, if like for me I have different ones don't bother.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I looked at the Lever craft, not sure yet.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Jony said:


> Mythos is great for one bean that's it, if like for me I have different ones don't bother.


 Not a problem for me. I go through a bag (500g or a kilo) then move on to the next.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Looks ultra impressive is the large black box beside it the motor control unit?


Yeah, it has variable RPM adjustment from 100-1500 

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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Speedster with modified panels, Titus in black, copper and some chrome, EK43s modified in black


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

charris said:


> Speedster with modified panels, Titus in black, copper and some chrome, EK43s modified in black


 Pretty much the setup I had, or very similar. Speedster, EK43 and Custom Versalab.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

However...you still *upgraded!  *


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## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

MildredM said:


> Too true - I can see a custom Slayer somewhere in the future, while Ian is more than happy with our current set-up! I don't think it can possibly have anything to do with having to get half the kitchen re-vamped at great cost to accommodate a Slayer. No that can't be it al all 😂


 Doing these calcs right now as you know thats where I'm heading... Currently running at 3.5k to sort water, water pressure (3-5bar input) and then suitable size set up and plumb in BEFORE I can deploy a Slayer!


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## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

@MildredMNot helping my sanity with the pictures Frank keeps sending me!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Chainlinephil said:


> @MildredMNot helping my sanity with the pictures Frank keeps sending me!


 I am keep my eyes tight shut 😑😅


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Chainlinephil said:


> @MildredMNot helping my sanity with the pictures Frank keeps sending me!


 Sounds so wrong this, he shown me a video tour not long ago😂and the Ek43 s been Franked


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## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

Jony said:


> Sounds so wrong this, he shown me a video tour not long ago😂and the Ek43 s been Franked


 yes its very dangerous🙈 so much shiny. I am also acutely aware the result doesn't make the coffee any better😉 It is all part of the experience for me I must confess.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

It sees Frank is releasing a new grinder called Nautilus. He said cost is. around 3k euro.

https://www.instagram.com/titusgrinding/?hl=en


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## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

charris said:


> It sees Frank is releasing a new grinder called Nautilus. He said cost is. around 3k euro.
> https://www.instagram.com/titusgrinding/?hl=en


I can neither confirm nor deny that this forms part of our discussions or that my wife is considering legal action

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## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

Currently wondering the impact of the end of transition on transactions and if this leads to an earlier decision..tariffs, vat treatment etc..

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