# Pharos hand grinder



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Hi.

Has anybody got experience of this grinder? I can find a lot of info on the US forums but there doesn't seem to be much chatter about it in the UK.

General consensus over the pond is that it's a little bit fiddly and temperamental but great value at $250. Does this still hold true at the higher UK price of £250?

How does it compare with something like a second hand super jolly in the grind department?

I nearly bought a Mazzer major from sales corner the other week but with it being so close to Christmas and above budget at £350 I reluctantly had to pass on it but since then I've decided spending so much on a grinder and then modding it with bits of sellotape and cardboard isn't the way I want to go anyway.

I'm looking for something I can single dose with without any hassle but can't seem to find anything electric that fits the bill in my budget.

To be honest I'd rather not have another hand grinder but I'll get one and put up with it if people on here agree with general feelings in the US.

I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. I'm upgrading from an MC2 so anything that's a big improvement on that, either new or second hand and in budget would be great.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Have you seen relatively new Lido E? It might fit your needs too.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

No I haven't but I'll definitely check it out. Thanks


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

My understanding is that it gives a fantastic result for single dosing but is an absolute ball ache to use.

Personnally I would rather sacrifice the zero retention for convenience, but I am a lazy bugger.

Lido E looks good for the price, or Hausgrind if you can find one.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I have been very happy with the lido E .... I use it alongside my main grinder so I can run 2 beans at the same time


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

If you go with the Lido E then probably easier to buy it from Coffee Hit rather than direct from US.

Lurk on their site for a few minutes and a £5 off code will pop up.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I have a couple of Pharos. One stock and one with VoodooDaddy mods. They are both very good hand grinders, if you can be bothered with the exercise. The modded one is more convenient but they both do the same job. I also have a Eureka 65e, which is a lot more convenient. The results in the cup are, I think, better from the Pharos. If you don't mind a bit of faff an excellent choice.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Lido E looks a great price but I'm not sure if it's going to be much of an upgrade from the MC2. I think I'd have to wait until it's been reviewed a few times before I can judge.

I'm torn because it looks like the OE hand grinders offer a lot of bang for your buck but something at the back of my mind says Ill get fed up of hand grinding.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The burrs in the Lido E are probably a lot more stable than the MC2. The consistency from an MC2 is crap. The Lidos are known to have a good particle distribution. You don't need to wait for the E to be reviewed as it's the same as the other lidos, it just has a finer adjustment thread and improved burr stability due to an extra bearing. The new Pharos has an anti static hopper and apparently you just need to roll the grinds around when you're done to remove the static and they drop out a lot easier. If space is at a premium and you want electric you'll find my Mignon in the sale section.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

The pharos is mostly about delivering the highest quality in the cup for those on a budget. I used to own one, and it lives up to this, when propperly alligned. But it's a pity to use especially with harder light roasted coffees - and is both annoying to grind with and to empty but if you don't mind the hard work and the continiously need for disasembly it's a okay choise although and there is also a german copy of the grinder, but supposely of highere bouild quality


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

malling said:


> The pharos is mostly about delivering the highest quality in the cup for those on a budget. I used to own one, and it lives up to this, when propperly alligned. But it's a pity to use especially with harder light roasted coffees - and is both annoying to grind with and to empty but if you don't mind the hard work and the continiously need for disasembly it's a okay choise although and there is also a german copy of the grinder, but supposely of highere bouild quality


The German grinder on question is considerably more expensive

700 euros ?

Mahlgut grinder


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Yes it i in the same ballpark as the hg-one


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Lido vs MC2; not in the same league grind wise. Brother has a MC2 and took the lido 3 round at the weekend and left him to tell me which was better on three seperate occasions; each time he chose the lido.

Now, mine is a lido 3 but the Lido E has the same burrset just set up for finer grinds in the espresso range ( see comments on page 1 of this thread) and very easy to empty grinds from. If price is an issue the only other contenders are as have already been mentioned adn you could always buy lots of beans with the change 

Hope of help

John


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

So is it worth paying the premium for the pharos or would the lido e be the way to go for espresso?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Pharos would be better for espresso. Bigger burrs.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

The MC2, the original Lido and Haus/Feldgrind all use the same burr set, and should produce similar results. I have an MC2 and a Feldgrind. The MC2 currently produces a better grind (for brewed), but I expect the difference to decrease as the Feldgrind burrs wear in. Later versions of the Lido use different burrs, but I don't think anyone, including OE, claims they produce a better grind; the changes have been for usability and ease of manufacture (see here). The burrs in the Pharos are in a completely different league.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

GlennV said:


> The MC2, the original Lido and Haus/Feldgrind all use the same burr set, and should produce similar results. I have an MC2 and a Feldgrind. The MC2 currently produces a better grind (for brewed), but I expect the difference to decrease as the Feldgrind burrs wear in. Later versions of the Lido use different burrs, but I don't think anyone, including OE, claims they produce a better grind; the changes have been for usability and ease of manufacture (see here). The burrs in the Pharos are in a completely different league.


That's interesting because I plan to keep the MC2 for brewed.

I don't feel the MC2 is a poor grinder but as I move more and more away from milk based drinks I'm getting annoyed with the inconsistent results in the cup. At first I blamed my skill but it's got to the point now where I can do two identical shots back to back after cooling and temp surfing and have a very different taste at the end with each. Although I'm sure my technique isn't perfect every time I'm also sure either the machine or grinder is playing a big part in my inconsistences. Until recently I thought it was probably the machine, now I think maybe the grinder is the culprit. Either way both are being replaced eventually but it's the grinder that's giving me the headache, I've already decided that I'm saving for a Fracino Ariete as the machine as it ticks all the boxes and is Uk made which is a big plus to me.

I think realistically the choices are either go with the Pharos and hope I love it so much I'll put up with the hand grinding or hold out for a second hand eureka 65e, although even second hand that may be a little over budget and you don't see many popping up for sale.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Have you considered modding a doser grinder with an auber timer and funnel from Ali express? You really pay a premium for on demand grinders.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

h1udd said:


> I have been very happy with the lido E .... I use it alongside my main grinder so I can run 2 beans at the same time


2 beans? = 0.2 gram.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Couldn't do that with a big conical grinder ... You would never get those 2 beans back for about a week however the retention of the lido is so small, that I can happily down dose and make drinks similar in taste to *bucks.


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Bought one ... tried it ... sold it ... end of!

I found it a total absolute pain in the arse to get the coffee out. A real fiddle with its lots of shaking and banging.

I have recently purchased Lido 3 and it grinds as well and is much less of a faff.

Personally, I would leave it alone.

David


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

h1udd said:


> Couldn't do that with a big conical grinder ... You would never get those 2 beans back for about a week however the retention of the lido is so small, that I can happily down dose and make drinks similar in taste to *bucks.


Oh dear, those big conicals do come in for some stick on this forum! Retention depends on the overall design of the grinder, and how you use it, not just the size and shape of the burrs. FWIW (zilch) my limited experience is that large flats retain more coffee (and are worse for single dosing) than large conicals.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

DavidBondy said:


> Bought one ... tried it ... sold it ... end of!
> 
> I found it a total absolute pain in the arse to get the coffee out. A real fiddle with its lots of shaking and banging.
> 
> ...


Did you get the new model or the older one?


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Why? Are the new ones less faff?


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Worth noting that, in many cases, the older Pharos' can be updated with parts from the newer version. Cheaper than VooDooDaddy mods.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

So is the new one less faff? I'm thinking of buying a brand new one from coffee hit.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

From what I've read and seen online it should be less faff than the original but still more than a Voodoodaddy modded one.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

New ones have an anti static grinds hopper and funnel.


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I've had a Pharos for about 4 years, its my main grinder. I can't understand why people think its a fiddle or hard to use. I have no problems with static or grind retention (unlike the Mazzer) but will admit that adjusting it is a pain, but then it seems to need far, far less adjustment than my Mazzer. The results in the cup are perceptably much, much improved over the Mazzer. For the same duration of pour, the grinds from the Pharos look coarser than those of the Mazzer. My interpretation of this is that those from the Pharos are precisley cut, wherease those from the Mazzer are irregular and contine alot of dust and smaller particles.

Your getting the performance of a £1000 PLUS, grinder for £250 - there is no greater bargin in the coffee world, and it will last forever. No electronics to go wrong, no plastic to crack.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I would agree with every word of that, except, there is plastic to crack. Easily replaceable if it should happen.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Except for one small detail electronic grinders in the £1000 range rarely fails. The vast majority will work for at years, after all these are designed to be used i cafes where people dosent treat the equipmeant very well

I bought a well beat up grinder put it back in working condition and it where like a brand new grinder.


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

My Pharos 1 has the VDD grind adjustment modification. As a result, I can change settings in an instant by just rotating the pointer to a precise point on the dial. I can also note the setting and return to it when I wish. The Pharos 2 has several welcome improvements but, unfortunately, retains the relatively clumsy split-shaft adjustment collar.

Matt


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

Granted, grinders rarely fail, but if they do you can bet its due to the electronics.

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/ceado-e37-electronics-bypass-t31809.html


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

mathof said:


> My Pharos 1 has the VDD grind adjustment modification. As a result, I can change settings in an instant by just rotating the pointer to a precise point on the dial. I can also note the setting and return to it when I wish. The Pharos 2 has several welcome improvements but, unfortunately, retains the relatively clumsy split-shaft adjustment collar.
> 
> Matt


Is it the main grinder you use with the Londinium? If so do you find it a weak link or up to the job? If it's up to the job that is high praise indeed.

Some of the American threads are so gushing I feel I should take them with a pinch of salt, but most of the bad reviews are either that it's a lot of faff or too time consuming. If you feel like this it's probably that hand grinders in general aren't going to be your thing. It's sort of like criticising a Robur for not being the same size as an MC2.

Even the bad reviews seem to admit the actual grind is very good, even very, very good.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

cold war kid said:


> Is it the main grinder you use with the Londinium? If so do you find it a weak link or up to the job? If it's up to the job that is high praise indeed.
> 
> Some of the American threads are so gushing I feel I should take them with a pinch of salt, but most of the bad reviews are either that it's a lot of faff or too time consuming. If you feel like this it's probably that hand grinders in general aren't going to be your thing. It's sort of like criticising a Robur for not being the same size as an MC2.
> 
> Even the bad reviews seem to admit the actual grind is very good, even very, very good.


Exactly that! If the faff is too much then hand grinders are not for you. There are improvements in the margins but there is no getting away from the hard work and time involved with hand grinding. The shaking and banging to extract the last of the grind pale into insignificance compared with the effort involved. (And, if you're fit, that isn't a problem.)


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## lucasd (Feb 24, 2015)

mathof said:


> My Pharos 1 has the VDD grind adjustment modification. As a result, I can change settings in an instant by just rotating the pointer to a precise point on the dial. I can also note the setting and return to it when I wish. The Pharos 2 has several welcome improvements but, unfortunately, retains the relatively clumsy split-shaft adjustment collar.
> 
> Matt


Can you share it how it is look like?

In newest version they still did not update the regulation properly.

Also how can you contact mod originator?


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

cold war kid said:


> Is it the main grinder you use with the Londinium? If so do you find it a weak link or up to the job? If it's up to the job that is high praise indeed.
> 
> Some of the American threads are so gushing I feel I should take them with a pinch of salt, but most of the bad reviews are either that it's a lot of faff or too time consuming. If you feel like this it's probably that hand grinders in general aren't going to be your thing. It's sort of like criticising a Robur for not being the same size as an MC2.
> 
> Even the bad reviews seem to admit the actual grind is very good, even very, very good.


The Pharos is the only grinder I use with the Londinium, and that's for about four or five pulls a day. (I have a Rocky that I use for less demanding methods of preparation.) The grind gives me picture-perfect naked portafilter pulls time after time. I do however use a fine mist of water on the beans to cut static electricity and I stir the grinds in the basket, before tamping, with an archaeologist's needle tool. This is quite a bit of faff to describe, but as a routine it doesn't take very long.

As to taste, I can only say that it satisfies me. I'd have to do side-by-side testing with another grinder to give an informed opinion on how it compares.

Matt


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

lucasd said:


> Can you share it how it is look like?
> 
> In newest version they still did not update the regulation properly.
> 
> Also how can you contact mod originator?


Here is an image of the Voodoo Daddy (VDD) adjustment mechanism:









You can contact William, the mod originator and supplier, at

[email protected].

Matt


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

mathof said:


> The Pharos is the only grinder I use with the Londinium, and that's for about four or five pulls a day. (I have a Rocky that I use for less demanding methods of preparation.) The grind gives me picture-perfect naked portafilter pulls time after time. I do however use a fine mist of water on the beans to cut static electricity and I stir the grinds in the basket, before tamping, with an archaeologist's needle tool. This is quite a bit of faff to describe, but as a routine it doesn't take very long.
> 
> As to taste, I can only say that it satisfies me. I'd have to do side-by-side testing with another grinder to give an informed opinion on how it compares.
> 
> Matt


It was a well informed sound decision to have the Pharos


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Ok. So after reading a lot of reviews I bit the bullet and bought the Pharos and it arrived yesterday.

I should have just left it til today really because I'd been up since 4.30 for work and knew I needed to be up for 3.30 today and I'd had a really bad day but against better judgement I opened it anyway and the first thing I saw was a grind mark where one of the tools used in assembly had cut into the top plate. It was only a couple of mm deep but so glaringly obvious that they must have been staring straight at it while assembling and aligning it. Not a deal breaker but a sign of how quality can take a nose dive when you move to mass production in a far away country.

I moved the collar that adjusts the grind and tried my first shot. Masses of statically charged grounds clung all around the burr and refused to budge no matter what I did. This went on for the next four or five attempts until I gave up, made a cup of tea and went to bed feeling sorry for myself.

Today at work I decided when I got in I'd get a metal bowl and bang roll and shake it before even taking the bung out. This I did and within a few seconds I had almost all the grounds out and in the bowl. The two times I've used it since have been equally as easy to do. I can't offer an explanation as to the change in way the grinds are clinging to the inside, I suppose my attitude might have something to do with it but thing's are looking good.

As to the grind it's not bang on dialled in yet and I'm using the last of an inmymug roast that I've not been a huge fan of so can't really say yet so want to hold back judgement on the taste but the actual grinds themselves look nothing at all like the MC2's. The grind appears much finer but is still running a ittle fast so needs to go finer still and fluffy is a good descriptor. So much so that dosing to 17g I could now easily fit another gram of two into the portafilter whereas before there was no chance of that. As soon as you put the tamp on it compresses really easily.

I think we're going to get along fine once I get used to the routine so thanks for all your comments.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Report the damage to coffeehit. If it's got an obvious visible scratch on it you should be paying less as it's 'cosmetic seconds'. They just replaced the adjustment on one after the threads were stripped by a user and sold it on eBay for less than £210.


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