# ECM grinders?



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

Hi all, It's taken me a few months more than I had planned but I have finally got the extra pennies together to get my Synchronika. I was going to go for an ECM HX machine, but just as I was going to pull the trigger I realised that as I might well be using bottled water the waste, the hassle of frequently emptying the drip tray and a hope to prevent future upgradeitis pushed me up to the DB.

But I'm having trouble choosing my grinder. The obvious choice would be the matching grinder for the coffee machine, but I havent been impressed with the reviews and forums reports on the S-Automatik 64. It's just not quite there yet.

So if I stay with ECM as a brand that would mean the Titan V-64. I love the looks, the solidity, the funnel, the sealing ring to the grind chamber, the ability to clean the grind chamber without redialling the machine, and, of course, the fact that I can leave the task of changing the burrs to my grandchildren. The YouTube video review from Whole Latte Love was excellent and inspiring... but there isn't a lot more information out there really. Even the ECM website is unGermanically sparse.

Anybody using the Titan here? I'd love your views, please.

The other grinder I like is the Compak E5. It looks great, the electronic panel has been thought out for design and function, and it has avoided the error of an expensive bit of precision technology being turned into a 1950s Russian radio by sticking terrible screen displays and dated controls on the thing.

There is lots to love about the proven and well-known Compak. But to clean the grinding chamber does the grinder have to be dialled in again like the Mazzer? Are the screw threads sealed from grind spray with an O ring?

I know there is a price difference, but getting the right grinder is the most important thing. I've definitely decided against the Eureka range, btw, although I know they do some cracking-performance grinders at this price point.

Any advice would be gratefully received, thanks.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@CardinalBiggles

I had the Profitec T64 grinder for 1.5 years. I've sold the grinder to a forum member a couple of weeks back. The only reason I sold it was because I now have a Kinu M68 which suits my needs better, and I don't have the space to have two grinders. I really miss the T64. The workflow is very clean, the dosing is consistent, the grinder is compact and fast. It is also easy to clean and relatively easy to park it back on the same spot where you left.

The ECM Titan is the same as this grinder, but without all the refinement that goes with ECM equipment.

it's a lovely grinder, and I am sad in a way I had to part with it. BB had one of the ECM Titan grinders for sale in their clearance, the caveat is that you need to physically go there and buy the grinder. You can always give them a ring and find out more.

I must say those grinders are not very popular here in this forum. I mainly resorted to the Australian CoffeeSnobs forum to exchange ideas about the grinder and do an specific mod with the anti-static screen which the distributors over there do.

BB was kindly enough to send me a new anti-static grid so I could perform the mod on and still keep the original one if the mod did not work. Finds out the mod works a treat and when I sold it, the buyer asked me to install that particular version on.


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

Thats really interesting. Like yourself I've found a bit more info on the Oz forum. There is also quite a bit on http://www.kaffee-netz.de. You need to speak a bit of German, or be patient with the cryptic nature of Google translate.

Today on that forum, for example I read about all the teething problems with the S-Automatik 64, and the free mods that ECM did to improve the machine. And the likelihood that on the inside the S64 is an Anfim kt....

I guess the fact that I am spending so much effort looking at the V-Titan, even down to struggling through pages of German forum slang, shows that really I want the Titan!

You were right about it bei g developed from the Profitec btw, with the funnel into the PF etc.

Thanks for the reply.


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

Update:

I've researched this ECM Titan V-64 to death. It's a superb machine. It looks good, built like a Tiger tank, and has all the details one needs to make life easy. I almost rushed to BB with my cash burning in my hot little hand.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), the advice from Claudette has halted me in my tracks. She could have just unloaded her clearance Titan on me, but she really is much better than that, and I believe that she gave me impartial advice about their experience with the Titan.

In summary it really is an excellent machine, but it is a commercial machine. The grind retention is huge, so unless you are pushing volume through it the coffee waste is eye-watering.

So I consider myself lucky not to have dropped a grand on one.

If you are reading this Claudette, you are definitely on my Christmas card list.


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

CardinalBiggles said:


> Update:
> 
> I've researched this ECM Titan V-64 to death. It's a superb machine. It looks good..


Are you still searching for a grinder?

I was doing some research on the titan too. A few weeks ago, it was a serious contender, until I got the same advice from BB. Currently the pro t 64 is my likely candidate .

Since I assumed also that the titan and t64 are similar in design, do you think profitec also suffers from huge grounds retention?

I don't mind filling the hopper or single dosing. Either way is fine, but what I do mind is wasting valuable beans in purging before every use

Anyway, just curious as to what you have your eyes on now..


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

Sorry I haven't replied before now, but for some reason Ive only just seen your post in my feed.

The bottom line after weeks, if not months of looking into these sodding grinders:

Profitec and Titan. I read a German magazine review of the Titan. Very detailed. Nobody does data like the Germans do. The Titan was indistinguishable from the S64 Automatik. Not in the cup, not in the grind, not in the retention (which was poor). Obviously it was quicker, but their view was unless you like the retro style buy the far cheaper ECM.

Profitec tried very hard with the T64. The Mazzer style cone, the new anti static grid.... and if you modify the grid (YouTube shows you how) you can reduce retention. But imho it's still high at 7gm after doing the mod. You will still see clumping on fine grinds too (also on YouTube). You will need some sort of distribution tool/effort if you go for one. I thought for £700 there was better out there. But at least you can now get a S/steel collar to upgrade the plastic one....

I ended up liking the Eureka 64E, the Rocket Fausto, and the Compak E5.

The Fausto is the love child of a 65E and a Mazzer mini..... I discounted it as the motor was very modest.

The 65E is excellent value. I love lots of things about this grinder. The adjustable chute, LED illumination of the PF, easy top burr removal and replacement, one hand grind adjustment. Big burrs too. On the debit side I thought the LCD display looked awful. Very 80s. And there were only 2 buttons for dosing choices. Reliabilty by reputation was average. Retention was quite good.

The Compak E5 with 300gm hopper inches ahead. It's definitely better built, has a super PF holder with built in dosing ring, three programmable dosing buttons - very useful - a nice display, is made from top materials throughout, has a powerful motor to ensure very low retention. It has the disadvantage of having to redial the grinder after cleaning the chamber, which is a pain. But I have been told by owners that using Grindz every month or so means you only have to remove the top burr twice a year.

The Eureka has 64mm burrs, compared to E5's 58. But every taste test I have read has the E5 coming out on top every time. Finally, nobody has a bad word to say about tgem One chap even sold his Compak E5 for an upgrade, then a month later sold his upgrade and bought another Compak E5.

If you spec it btw, you can have LED lights on the Compak.

So that will be my choice, in Gloss Black with the small hopper. But it was close. I think either of the two would be fine. But seeing that slightly old fashioned case and the awful display glowing at me next to my gorgrous Synchronika would just make my stomach turn.

BTW Compak do a range they called "Fresh". It had a lot in common with the 65E, and it was on my short list too. Worth a look, but in the end I went for the newer design of the E5.

Mazzer mini, btw, got discounted quite early in the research - older design, over priced, terrible grindjng chamber design, and again the clumping. Those who own them like them, but Grinder technology has moved on imho. The Quamar I quite liked, but not with those touch pad controls for precise grinding times. The Fiorenzato 64E is excellent value atm (£660 incl) , and compares very favourably with the Mazzer mini, if you like a "Classic" grinder with a Mazzer-like screw adjustment and really good grind without the trendy gizmos, then worth a look. They do a nice Red one, too.

I think that sums up where I am. Choosing a grinder is really bloody difficult. The marketing is totally amateurish compared to, say, a PC of the same value. Just getting information from the manufacturer is like pulling teeth, never mind finding an agent or service centre. Im still waiting for a reply from Fiorenzato about their dealers/distributors in the UK. I only wrote to them in April.... Their web site does list all the dealers in the Arab emirates though. Nowhere else. Just Arabia. D'oh!


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

CardinalBiggles said:


> Sorry I haven't replied before now, but for some reason Ive only just seen your post in my feed.
> 
> The bottom line after weeks, if not months of looking into these sodding grinders:
> 
> ...


Hehe... Uncanny how we shared the same path thought-wise until the last step!

Thanks for the lengthy reply!

I pulled the trigger on profitec.

It seems every forum has their favorites. On this forum, ECM and profitec are rare in mention. I based most of my decisions from German and Australian forums.

I have checked out every YouTube there is on of course the profitec, but also compak e5, rocket Fausto, 65e and atom.

The only thing that made me uncomfortable about profitec, it seemed was cured by the mesh mod video I saw. In the end, I wanted a nice physical mechanical button to push, not a touch screen or on screen buttons like on Fausto.


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

And... I had originally chosen zenith, but BB had just sold out (probably because of the discount they are giving at the moment) so I went with the =1st choice of profitec!

The new niche zero was too far away for it to be a viable candidate. Let's see how that turns out.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

u2jewel said:


> .
> 
> The only thing that made me uncomfortable about profitec, it seemed was cured by the mesh mod video I saw. In the end, I wanted a nice physical mechanical button to push, not a touch screen or on screen buttons like on Fausto.


You don't need to do the mesh mod straight away. See how it feels after a few months, and then do it if you need it. It takes no time at all.

Those videos you saw - where they in slow motion? - were authored by me most likely. It definitely improves it, and it was my understanding the Australian distributors were doing that mod in their workshop before they shipped to their customers.

It's a lovely grinder. Enjoy!


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You don't need to do the mesh mod straight away. See how it feels after a few months, and then do it if you need it. It takes no time at all.
> 
> Those videos you saw - where they in slow motion? - were authored by me most likely. It definitely improves it, and it was my understanding the Australian distributors were doing that mod in their workshop before they shipped to their customers.
> 
> It's a lovely grinder. Enjoy!


Yes!

Your videos and opinions played a big confirmational role in my decision making.

Thanks ☺


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

Great to hearu2jewel. I was inches away from a Profitec T64 and 700! Great value combination. I just didn't find the lurv you found on the German sites. Perhaps they were still a bit neg after the early issues with the S-Automatik? Although they do get incredible deals on Eureka from an Italian supplier, which must make the ECM family look dear by comparison. Or maybe my forum was just a different one to yours?

There are 2 or 3 grid design mods for them that I came across. You could get a few grids and play Jenga with the grid bars!

I just didn't want the hassle and faffing about modifying the grid and ramming a brush up it's chute (oooh! Matron) after every grind when I'm spending £700 or so on a grinder. And I'm really mean when I see decent coffee or bottled water getting wasted.....

I only got here at all because I saw the Appartemento was available for a Grand. I thought for £1,500 I'd be fully set up...... then six months and £3000 later.....And I'm still looking at accessories!

The cone on the front of the Profitec is a definite advantage over the S-Automatik, and I agree totally about the physical buttons. The Sinclair ZX81 "buttons" on the Quamar (and Atom?) were a definite no no. And the micro adjustment worm on the Profitec is brilliant.

Do let us see the setup when it's all going, and, of course, let us hear how it's working out.

Great to hear about your journey. I hope and trust that you're going to get some great coffees down your neck!


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

CardinalBiggles said:


> Great to hearu2jewel. I was inches away from a Profitec T64 and 700! Great value combination. I just didn't find the lurv you found on the German sites. Perhaps they were still a bit neg after the early issues with the S-Automatik? Although they do get incredible deals on Eureka from an Italian supplier, which must make the ECM family look dear by comparison. Or maybe my forum was just a different one to yours?
> 
> There are 2 or 3 grid design mods for them that I came across. You could get a few grids and play Jenga with the grid bars! ��
> 
> ...


I'm going to collect my set up this weekend! Gonna be shipped tomorrow, can't wait!

Yes, I will be modding my T64.

I've yet to get my hands on the grinder, so cannot yet determine what's necessary.

My first plan is to attach a Silicone dome on top of the hopper, to see if pushing the dome down and into the hopper after the grind will cause the air to travel and be pushed through the hopper, grind chamber and then down the chute, expelling the coffee.

If this simple solution won't work, then not so much with cutting the mesh, but by creating a swinging flap attached to the mesh, want to create a sweeping arm to pull out the grind behind the mesh. I'll get my local metal guy to make one. If and when I do make it, of course I'll up a photo.

I will probably make a new portafilter holder, Fausto style for complete hands-free grinding with a portafilter funnel. With the current design, even though it's my preferred looks, the hook will get in the way.

I'll run the grinder standard for a week or so, and wait for inspirations for improvement and usability to arise.

I start a new thread to document this


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

u2jewel said:


> I'm going to collect my set up this weekend! Gonna be shipped tomorrow, can't wait!
> 
> Yes, I will be modding my T64.
> 
> ...


Just to let you know, the whole point of the grid at the chute exit is to compact the grinds, thus eliminating static. Then they clump together, fall into the funnel and end up in the PF nice and fluffy.

By expelling the grinds from the chute/chamber, you will therefore inhibit that process, and the grinds will just fly out of the grind and be quite staticky. You will therefore need to grind much finer to have the extraction at a reasonable time and weight in the cup.

If you want to do as such, you might as well just remove the grid - it is held by two Allen screws, very simple) and just clean the chute / chamber.

Like I said many times before, grinders seem to be most suited to be used as per their design. If you do change it, then you will notice that the grinder doesn't dose consistently, etc, etc, etc.

Keep us posted & have fun.


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just to let you know, the whole point of the grid at the chute exit is to compact the grinds, thus eliminating static. Then they clump together, fall into the funnel and end up in the PF nice and fluffy.
> 
> By expelling the grinds from the chute/chamber, you will therefore inhibit that process, and the grinds will just fly out of the grind and be quite staticky. You will therefore need to grind much finer to have the extraction at a reasonable time and weight in the cup.
> 
> ...


Cheers ☺

I appreciate your kind words and friendly advice.

Yup, I will never remove it because it's no appendix and it's there for a reason 

Kinda hard to describe, and this device only exists in my head so have no idea about real life usability, but it's gonna be an 'L' shaped piece of metal, of which one part of it would be the grid.

So in normal mode, grid would be there, in its intended place.

If I were to suppose it to a chair with no legs, with grid being where you'd sit, and a clap where you would lean on.

Post grind, I'll flip the grid up, (hinged at the top, L shape upside down, with the non grid section going into the chute, but tucked up in the tunnel) which will bring the other straight section sweeping down to 'shovel out' the retention.

Make sense?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

u2jewel said:


> Make sense?


Not really! 

What I am trying to say is that the grid is there to compact the grinds. Therefore, every time you grind, the grinds coming out into the funnel will be compacted and will be broken on descent.

If you clean the chute, then you will no longer have a compacted column of grounds. What will happen will be a big spray of grinds until they compact again. I used to block the grid with my thumb and press the button and feel the back-pressure mounting when I cleaned the grinder for example, in order not to waste anything.

Therefore, if after every time you clean all up, you might as well just not bother with the grid in there.

If you have more people in your household which will want a coffee at the same time, this grinder is excellent if used as intended: Compact, mess-free & consistent.

If it's only you, then you may find yourself purging 6g of coffee from the chute every time you want a drink. You'll need to do the same with other grinders mind you. Some will retain less, some will retain more, depending on the chute and chamber design. Take the Ceado E37s for example: It can retain between 4g and 7g behind the Anti-Static flap.


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not really!
> 
> What I am trying to say is that the grid is there to compact the grinds. Therefore, every time you grind, the grinds coming out into the funnel will be compacted and will be broken on descent.
> 
> ...


Hehe

Now I get what the core of your message was.

I kinda assumed this will be the case, thus the plan (mentioned earlier) to adapt my portafilter holder and go clipless, allowing me to use a dosing funnel.

But how profusely it sprays when empty, you experienced it, I have yet to see it in real life..

If I judge that a dosing funnel is something that would tame the spray, then I'm gonna try it. Let's see 

My plan is to program #1 button for the equivalent time of what the retention amount is (whatever that may be in seconds for the beans I will use)

Let's say it's 6 grams for this example.

Then the #2 button would be programed for 12 grams.

Since I require 18g per shot, this would be my work flow. And I always make 2 doubles per session.

Starting empty, clean(ish) grinder

Press #1 (nothing comes out but loads the grinder)

Press #1 and #2 (6g+12g)

Pull shot

Round 2

Press #2 (12g)

Keeping portafilter in the holder

Open up the funnel, and pull my contraption, releasing the stuck 6 grams. (again 18g total)

.. And a clean grinder!

Tedious, yes, but I'll do anything for freshness and minimizing wastage 

Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.. Preserve the antistatic grid, yet modify it for single dosing!

Not many things go according to plan in life...


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

I'm wondering if we both saw the same mod....?

AFAIK, looking at the grinder head on, the grid flows well in the bottom right corner of the chute, but backs up on the top /middle left. The mod I saw cut 1 or 2 bars in the top left to free the blockages, but still retained the rest of the grid to help with the static. Here, though, is another pic from an american site. This is from a Mazzer, and they've done the opposite - I dont think it's worked x imho.....


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not really!
> 
> What I am trying to say is that the grid is there to compact the grinds. Therefore, every time you grind, the grinds coming out into the funnel will be compacted and will be broken on descent.
> 
> ...


This is good advice. At this price point 6gms retention is very typical, it seems.

Ive just spent a few hours tonight trawling through some German data on retention - those guys do love their data - and test results for dozens of grinder models were very disappointing compared to the manufacturer's specs (where specs are given). As an example the Ceado 37S demonstrated 8.8 gms retention, with clumping in evidence (but the cheaper Ceado E7 was half that!) . I don't know if the machine had the recent official mod installed in the chamber. The Compak K6 had 9.6 gms retention, and 2.2 gms of clumping in tge PF!

The Mazzer Super Jolly - just 3.3 gms. Mazzer Mini twice that.

Eureka 65E- 6.3 gms. The Mythos was 7.5 gms!

Retention: It's a fact of life.

Just give the first coffee of the day to somebody who wont notice!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CardinalBiggles said:


> This is good advice. At this price point 6gms retention is very typical, it seems.
> 
> Ive just spent a few hours tonight trawling through some German data on retention - those guys do love their data - and test results for dozens of grinder models were very disappointing compared to the manufacturer's specs (where specs are given). As an example the Ceado 37S demonstrated 8.8 gms retention, with clumping in evidence (but the cheaper Ceado E7 was half that!) . I don't know if the machine had the recent official mod installed in the chamber. The Compak K6 had 9.6 gms retention, and 2.2 gms of clumping in tge PF!
> 
> ...


I'm not discussing this anymore. It feels like you've contradicted yourself, which is not helpful at all for forum members.

on this thread:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?39922-ECM-Synchronika

Post #10

You keep going on and on about retention, saying that you've done quite a bit of research, and said that 7g is a lot compared to 1g or 2g on other grinders.

However, it seems by the post above that you are now saying exactly the opposite.


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

he has probably advanced in knowledge now...it would be interesting to know the overall retention after deep cleaning of @MildredM 's Mona


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

CardinalBiggles said:


> This is good advice. At this price point 6gms retention is very typical, it seems.
> 
> Ive just spent a few hours tonight trawling through some German data on retention - those guys do love their data - and test results for dozens of grinder models were very disappointing compared to the manufacturer's specs (where specs are given). As an example the Ceado 37S demonstrated 8.8 gms retention, with clumping in evidence (but the cheaper Ceado E7 was half that!) . I don't know if the machine had the recent official mod installed in the chamber. The Compak K6 had 9.6 gms retention, and 2.2 gms of clumping in tge PF!
> 
> ...


I will bet you anything you like, the Mythos does not have 7.5 gms retention, so whoever told you that is talking pure grade one bollocks


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I wish I had x ray eyes. Or a see through grinder just to see what (visually) is going on exactly.

I've just deep cleaned the E8 and weighed the results. 5g. But, to my mind, it doesn't exactly tell me anything really.


----------



## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm not discussing this anymore. It feels like you've contradicted yourself, which is not helpful at all for forum members.
> 
> on this thread:
> 
> ...


I'm telling you what I find. Ambiguous or ambivalent information is out there. You're old enough to understand that, and assess the various data. For this last stuff you will need to go through 16 pages of German, though. You've seen the 1-2 gms retention vids on YouTube, of course. And the discussions on the American forums?

Search for Truth, grasshopper. The Truth will set you free......

Meanwhile it looks like I'd better keep whatever I find out to myself.

Over and out.


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I wish I had x ray eyes. Or a see through grinder just to see what (visually) is going on exactly.
> 
> I've just deep cleaned the E8 and weighed the results. 5g. But, to my mind, it doesn't exactly tell me anything really.


Hi..

Thanks for posting your findings.

For me, I'm in no position to qualify 5g into some kind of meaning..

Whether it's good or bad, I'm not gonna speculate.

But what I would love to know is if the 5g retention you cleaned out was the kind of retention that would get pushed out in the next grind, or the type that would sit in grind chamber until your next clean out.

Both can be 5g, but different kinda 5g


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The normal retention would be pushed out in the next grind, hence waiting after changing grind as the next grind will contain some of the original grounds. Usually a couple of shots before it settles to new grind setting.

If single dosing without some form of "puff" = eg lens hood mod there will be a residue left.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

any space in the grind chamber will fill with coffee and you are quite right, that it will not necessarily mix in with fresh coffee as it is ground.....I am sure DavecUK covered this topic at some point


----------



## icom102 (Aug 7, 2017)

whats the ECM S-Automatik 64 like? im thinking of buying it to go along with my Synchronika


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

icom102 said:


> whats the ECM S-Automatik 64 like? im thinking of buying it to go along with my Synchronika


Someone here had and returned it the next day. Just search on this forum.


----------



## icom102 (Aug 7, 2017)

Rocket Espresso Macinatore FAUSTO would this be better?


----------



## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

I no longer purge my grinder in the morning as I honestly couldn't taste the difference when I did, can you all taste the difference?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Deansie26 said:


> I no longer purge my grinder in the morning as I honestly couldn't taste the difference when I did, can you all taste the difference?


Yes, I could. It tasted more bitter. Just put into a Latte and would be fine.


----------



## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

That's probably why mediumroast, I start the day with a flat white

Better than wasting it ☕


----------



## Mr Kirk (Oct 5, 2017)

Can the titanium grinders be retro fitted to the automatik64?


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Mr Kirk said:


> Can the titanium grinders be retro fitted to the automatik64?


Yes. Same item. Ti is just a coating on top.


----------



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

u2jewel said:


> Yes. Same item. Ti is just a coating on top.


Judging by the outer body shape it's not possible to retro fit the delivery chute from the Titan to the 64 Auto.

Jon-Willy


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

xpresso said:


> Judging by the outer body shape it's not possible to retro fit the delivery chute from the Titan to the 64 Auto.
> 
> Jon-Willy


Hehe.. If you did somehow, it would be identical internally to T64


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

u2jewel said:


> Hehe.. If you did somehow, it would be identical internally to T64


The motor of the ECM 64 Auto is not as good as the t64 or the Titan.

Basically the ECM Titan and the Pro T64 compare. The former being a much more refined version of the latter.

The ECM 64 auto... meh.


----------



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The motor of the ECM 64 Auto is not as good as the t64 or the Titan.
> 
> Basically the ECM Titan and the Pro T64 compare. The former being a much more refined version of the latter.
> 
> The ECM 64 auto... meh.


Unless the ECM Auto and the Titan were stripped and laid out in front of me, I'm convinced behind the cosmetics the heart of the machine is identical, the Titan appears to have a stainless fine adjustment gear whereas the Auto is plastic, plus the funnel delivery, hoppers are optional.

Jon-Willy


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

xpresso said:


> Unless the ECM Auto and the Titan were stripped and laid out in front of me, I'm convinced behind the cosmetics the heart of the machine is identical, the Titan appears to have a stainless fine adjustment gear whereas the Auto is plastic, plus the funnel delivery, hoppers are optional.
> 
> Jon-Willy


They have a different motor.


----------



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> They have a different motor.


Are they not rated the same ?. or are you confirming they are a totally different motor ?.

Jon.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

xpresso said:


> Are they not rated the same ?. or are you confirming they are a totally different motor ?.
> 
> Jon.


On the Bella Barista website, the ECM S64 automatik has a motor output of 400W, whereas the Titan has a 450W motor.

There is a member on this forum who bought the S-64 a while ago and returned the next day as it was incapable of grinding lighter roasted / harder beans.

I owned a Pro T64 for just under two years and it never missed a beat. It's s great grinder. The ECM Titan is the fancy version of it with titanium coated burrs and better finishing overall.

It may also be that the motor on the S has been upgraded, I don't know.


----------

