# disappointing crema.?



## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

hmmmm....









HasBean Jabberwocky beans

17.2g in

37.3g output

20secs

a bit bitter/sour - thought there would be more crema

  

its a Krups GVX2 grinder - and before you say buy a £250 upgrade - well it aint gonna happen for a while on a State Pension

so any ideas..?

the grinder is on fine #2 so could be lower = increase time.?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I find crema is generally disappointing .

20 seconds for an espresso = a little bit on the quick side ?!

What is the roast date on these? I would aim for 30 seconds minimum


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> I find crema is generally disappointing .
> 
> 20 seconds for an espresso = a little bit on the quick side ?!


do you mean with the Jabberwocky.?

ok tomorrow i'll try a finer grind / longer time

thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Grind finer, see if you have headroom to increase dose.

You don't know what the correct time will be, neither do I, so focus on the taste & ratio. Pretty much ignore the crema.

Also try pulling shorter.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Grind finer, see if you have headroom to increase dose. yes 17g is about 5mm below rim
> 
> You don't know what the correct time will be, neither do I, so focus on the taste & ratio......OK
> 
> ...


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> .......What is the roast date on these? I would aim for 30 seconds minimum


ahha 1st October .......have i been too eager..?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Pull shorter means go for less yield/output.

I agree with Gary on the crema side. I don't find the taste enjoyable at all.



yardbent said:


> a bit bitter/sour


Has Bean tasting notes:



> This is a fruity, challenging, bright citrus acidity based blend with a sweet kick at the end.


Gary will be able to advise better but I think a beginner may struggle with something like this to know what it should taste like (in terms of sourness that is a result of incorrect extraction and perceived 'sourness' that is actually the acidity of the coffee?)


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

No, pulling shorter as in less extraction weight as opposed to an even shorter time.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

less than 1:2 then - which i thought was a good median starting point

may depend on the beans ...? sheesh so much to learn.

actually i prefer Cappuccino ....


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> No, pulling shorter as in less extraction weight as opposed to an even shorter time.


so - feeling my way here......

grind finer with 17 or 18g

so 20 sec

will give less yield/output weight


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

yardbent said:


> less than 1:2 then - which i thought was a good median starting point
> 
> may depend on the beans ...? sheesh so much to learn.
> 
> actually i prefer Cappuccino ....


Every bean needs a different recipe









1:2 is a good starting point, as Gary pointed out the time was a bit short though.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Grind finer should increase the extraction time as it will take longer for the water to pass through. This in turn should get more of the oils/flavours out of the coffee. Which will, I'm sure, contribute to a better tasting espresso and usually better/more crema.

As MWJB suggested you could try pulling shorter (lowering the ration from 1:2 to say 1.6) or keep the ratio but increase the extraction time to 25-30 secs. Try both. See which you prefer.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

risky said:


> Every bean needs a different recipe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so - to increase time - decrease size of grind

i'll try the Krups tomorrow on the next lower level

---------------------------------------------------------------

@DoubleShot

this is all a 'cunning plan' to get me to upgrade the grinder methinks.........


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

No one here has suggested upgrading your grinder...yet!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

yardbent said:


> so - to increase time - decrease size of grind
> 
> i'll try the Krups tomorrow on the next lower level
> 
> ...


Correct, grind a bit finer, aim for the same output and see how the taste compares.



DoubleShot said:


> No one here has suggested upgrading your grinder...yet!


Because it goes without saying that the solution is to buy a Mythos One Clima Pro.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

yardbent said:


> so - feeling my way here......
> 
> grind finer with 17 or 18g
> 
> ...


At 20 secs you will have less out but don't stop at 20 secs, keep going until you have 34-36 out. Hopefully that will take around 30 seconds.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Grind finer should increase the extraction time as it will take longer for the water to pass through. This in turn should get *more* of the oils/flavours out of the coffee. .................


ahha -- that's a point I'd overlooked - thanks - but see my next post below

just got an IMS screen too


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

got a malware hit last week which - although my AV found/deleted 1 Trojan - it has wreaked my system and Firefox - some things like email still work [and on IE11 now] but canna download any updates to my Antivirus nor Anti-Malware/Spyware

so time for a clean Window 7 install next week whilst I'm away

so I'm off the forum from Wednesday for a while

thanks to all for the advice above - I'll spend next few days practice - and post when I get back from London

Jabberwocky beans maybe too young 01/10/15 whereas RAVE Fudge 21/09/15 is excellent


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Good choice on the IMS shower screen imo.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> No one here has suggested upgrading your grinder...yet!










the biggest cause for upgradeitis. LOL


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi John

Issues of time vs weight of output aside, the jabberwocky I sent you a while back was 3 weeks past roast when I sent it up to you so would extract differently to the fresher one you have in at the moment, so as you say, may be a little young yet.

Me personally, when dialling in a new bean I start at what output I want to acieve i.e. 1:2 so 17g in>34g out adjusting the grind finer / courser until i get somewhere in the 25 to 30s time, crucially tasting each shot until i either get close to the tasting notes or what my own taste buds like. Appreciating this may not be so simple with your Krups grinder.

The above is probably a distillation of good advice on here and from places like Barista hustle / internet at large, definately not my own work, but it does work. If you like the taste of what you producing keep a little book / piece of paper / spreadsheet, of name of bean, date of roast, date of first use, weight in / weight out of best shot and grind settings. If you have any changes during use as you go down the bag note these changes and when you come back to the same bean it will assist you in getting in the ball park as to grinder settings ( blends change as do beans from year to year etc so not an absolute, will only help to get you in the right "area" and cut down on wastage in the future)

Hope of help and sorry to hear of your computer woes, good antivirus is worth investing in and often comes with tools that can be launched before the operating system loads to disinfect troubled equipment ( am sure others on here can offer a better explanation)

John


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

johnealey said:


> Hi John
> 
> ............. computer woes, good antivirus is worth investing in and often comes with tools that can be launched before the operating system loads to disinfect troubled equipment.................John


thanks for the tasting advice

I was using AVAST but recently switched to 360 Total Security which is a highly recommended 'free' AV

it caught 1 Trojan but the system was already compromised

oh well - had the desktop some years so prob lotsa crap and fragmentation - so a clean install is scheduled

the RAVE Fudge you sent is yummy...


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