# Brewed coffee - I don't get it



## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

Brewed (as opposed to espresso) coffee is the in thing I believe and I just don't see why. An espresso just seems so much richer, creamier and more rounded to me. What virtues does brewed coffee have that I'm just not getting? It's not that I dislike it, it just always tastes meh compared with espresso to me.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

You get much more of it for a start









A big mug of brewed coffee can last you 5-10 mins whereas a double espresso will last a couple of mouthfuls if that.

What brew method are you talking about anyway? I love my AeroPress coffee and have about 3 a day after my morning espresso. You can taste lots of the subtleties of the coffee in a well made cup.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Yep, good point there Allam as I think that's what a lot of the UK public would say about 'black coffee'. I believe that there are two factors at play here:

1. In all likelyhood people who haven't found the joy in brewed coffee have probably just never had a good one, properly extracted. It's actually not as easy to get it right as some of the video tutorials make out, and if everyone was able to measure their extraction I'd expect that only maybe 20% of brewed coffees would hit their target extraction. So what people get is either too weak, or too strong, or under-extracted, or over-extracted. This happens all over the place, in lots of good coffee shops too. When I first started using a TDS Meter and recording my extractions, I was amazed by how difficult it was to get the extraction right.

2. I believe that as a nation we brits (taking aside people who understand coffee) are still under the mass impression that espresso is a new and improved version of coffee. It's only in the past 10 years that it has really made its mark and started surplanting freeze-dried granules, and most homes still use those granules. As such, having just got used to espresso, we aren't ready to be told "wait... there's something even more new and improved!"

So there's a psychological barrier to getting beyond espresso and into brewed coffee.

In my view there's only one way to overcome this as a nation... get more baristas trained in brewing properly, so they can start getting people tasting the coffee as it should taste... and at that point they will taste the difference (the richness, the creaminess, the complexity, the lingering aftertaste) and start drinking more brewed coffee.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Brewed coffee can be very hard to get right, ill be honest I only enjoy approx 50% of what I produce through V60(variable results) , Aeropress (fairly consistant results) , Kantan (only tried one beginners luck maybe) , Press-pot (fairly reliable). On reflection Espresso is easier to get right .

Just when you think you have the right ratio, temperature, grind etc - all nice and tasty. switch beans and suddenly things change and I cant produce a decent brew, bitterness or just 'meh' !

When I first got my Mazzer my results improved ..as it got seasoned & used more and more my brewed coffee got worse and worse....I switched to Porlex and boom all was tasty again. Grind profile obviously effects the result in the cup...

IMO Brewed coffee benefits from VERY fresh beans , more so than espresso.

All in all, a well brewed cup of coffee (via Aeropress for example) is absolutely delicious, more so than espresso for my taste.


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## Dahtac (Oct 18, 2011)

I enjoy both and on a regular basis as well.

Filter and espresso are two completely different different ways of brewing coffee. Extraction wise, the TDS of espresso is miles above that of what you get in a filter brew. Closest analogy I can think of would be wine vs. cognac, although that breaks down in terms of how you imbibe coffee.

Filter coffee is lighter in body as a result of TDS, less intense and obviously bigger in terms of beverage size. As for direct comparison though in terms of flavour and profile, this is almost impossible. Both can be big (in terms of mouthfeel), have intense flavours, huge complexity, acidity, sweetness and so on, but to directly compare these doesn't fit quite right. They operate under slightly different conceptions of what these terms mean.

As a firm believer in enjoying coffee, in whatever form appeals to you, it really is up to you whether you like it or not. Taste is highly subjective after all.

For the home brewer as well, filter is far cheaper to get right. For about 70 quid and a bag of beans, a little bit of practice can have you producing cups that wouldn't feel out of place in the best speciality shops.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm an espresso based drink addict, I'll drink brewed over instant ANY day but I just can't enjoy it as a day to day thing like espresso, not to mention how much I love being behind an espresso machine, so much fun! Most mornings I don't have time to set up the Ponte Vecchio, grind and what not and I'll probably throw some grinds in the French press and drink it just as a cup of coffee and not notice any of it's characteristics, drink and forget.

So really I feel the same AlIam, brewed coffee is just meh ... (And makes me think of Americans and their drip coffee's that sit for hours in that jug!) Espresso drinks got me hooked, I've developed my pallet for it, and enjoy it more than anything. I also feel you can do more with it. Brewed coffee I just think milk/no milk and sugar or no sugar!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Have to say, when I get a nice manual brew correct I just can't imagine milk or sugar with it. It would be like putting milk in red wine.


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## drk (Nov 22, 2011)

I am developing a taste for both. At home i'll carefully make espresso in my pavoni using decent beans....I love the process!

At work i'll just use bog standard pre-ground in my French press (hoping for an aeropress for my Xmas tho) and at my fav cafe i'll savour a v60.

Even 2 months ago, I found v60 a bit watery but as I've drank it more, I've started to taste more !


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## buzzbuzzbuzz (Sep 1, 2011)

AlIam,

I find that I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum to you. For the life of me, I can't understand what all the fuss over espresso is!

I've been reading alot about espresso on this site and others and TBH it seems more hassle than it's worth.

First, there's the fuss over what espresso machine to buy... (Gaggia or Silvia? Single or double boiler?)

Then it's a case of having to buy all the extras... (bottomless porterfilter, tamper, milk jug, shotglasses, etc.)

Then there's the question of any modifications that may be wanted/ needed/ desired... (PID? steamwand?)

This is before you even get to the grinder! (Stepped or stepless? With or without a doser? Flat or conical burrs?)

And finally, you have to make the darn thing... (Is the machine at right temperature? Is the grind fine enough? Is the shot taking too long to pour? Is it too fast? Is it blonding? Is it gushing? Is it choking?)

...Is it any wonder that I prefer to drink coffee made in a cafetiere?!









You and I may never understand eachother but as long as we are both enjoying what we drink i.e. fresh, flavourful coffee - does it really matter?

Buzz


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I think both espresso and brewed coffee have a place. I love espresso and find the espresso making process both rewarding and frustrating in equal measures. The espresso making process imparts certain unique characteristics to the final drink - espresso is more than just strong coffee (as demonstrated by the Aeropress ;-) ) I find these characteristics present in Espresso very enjoyable but they often make it harder to appreciate some of the underlying characteristics in the coffee itself. In fact some coffees simply do not suit espresso for this very reason.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

Actually making a (half-decent) espresso is no bother at all really but yeah there's a whole bunch of hassle and expenditure involved in being able to make an espresso effortlessly. It took me a few months research before I even felt confident enough to buy an espresso machine! During which time I was drinking pre-ground then freshly ground coffee brewed in a french press or moka pot. I owned a Gaggia Titanium (bean to cup) previously and figured I may as well get a proper espresso machine this time because it'd make much better espressos (true), be more reliable (probably true - we'll see), and save me a bunch of money (LOL @ me). I tried hard to make good coffee with the cafetiere but always missed the bad espressos my dying titanium produced. To me there's just something missing in a brewed coffee.

I think jimbow's probably nailed it; espresso tastes different to strong brewed coffee - richer & creamier but less subtle & refined. Maybe appreciating brewed coffee is more of an esoteric experience and some of us more value an espresso's in-your-faceness.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I mentioned wine earlier, and there are a lot of other parallels.

For example, espresso is cheddar cheese - the ever popular choice. Sometimes people put things like chilli in it to mix it up a bit but it always comes back to cheddar.

Whereas brewed coffee offers you a cheese trolley... a creamy blue roquefort, a nutty tomme de savoie, a fresh parmisan (parmigiano if you like), or a gruyere melted over toast.

Espresso is X Factor on a Saturday night. Brewed coffee is Have I Got News For You.

Espresso is a jacuzzi. Brewed coffee is geothermal hot springs.

Not that it's better, but it's more sensory (IMHO). You just need to sharpen your senses to fully appreciate it.

Anyone else have some?

Espresso = ?

Brewed coffee = ?


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

Espresso = Big Mac, Brewed = Haute Cuisine

Espresso = Crack Cocaine, Brewed = Coffee


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

AlIam said:


> Espresso = Big Mac, Brewed = Haute Cuisine


That's an interesting one, Allam. Haute cuisine is of a higher quality and more expensive than a big mac, whereas Espresso and Brewed are the same quality and price... just a different type of coffee. But if there's a perception that brewed is somehow a 'higher grade' of coffee for the same price as espresso then that's important, and something that coffee shops should bring to customers' attention to increase take-up of brewed coffees.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I was more thinking that what a big mac & espresso have in common is big unsubtle flavours and push some kind of primal addictive YES trigger. Brewed / Haute cuisine are a more cerebral discriminatory experience.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Americano = orange squash

Brewed coffee = freshly squeezed orange juice

Espresso = Orange cordial pre-dilution (?)

Brewed coffee = fine wine

espresso = a fine port

All coffee's have their time & place...and variety is the spice of life afterall.

I love just how different a coffee can taste through a variety of brew methods, even brew techniques using the same methods....mind blowing really once you can taste the subtle nuances


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting. I would offer Brewed = steak; Espresso = steak hache.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

You should have stuck with the whiskey metaphor.

Espresso = Whiskey - Complex, mature, strong

Brewed coffee = Whiskey with a splash of water - Complex, subtle, easier to drink

Remember the intense espresso flavours aren't for everyone just like drinking neat whiskey isn't for everyone. Sometimes you've just got to water it down a bit so everyone can enjoy it


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Yes, I thought better of it at the last moment 

I suppose what I was trying to get across is that I view brewed as the pure, unadulterated expression of the coffee i.e. nothing added (I think Mike said earlier he would never add any milk or sugar to a well made brewed coffee and I agree). The espresso making process adds certain other characteristics to the drink and this is why espresso is not simply a concentrated version of the same drink. Yes, we can taste lots of the characteristics of the coffee that were present in the brewed drink but we can also taste other characteristics uniquely imparted by the preparation process. Whilst these characteristics are usually desirable and enjoyable they can sometimes mask some of the characteristics of the underlying coffee. This is not necessarily a bad thing - just different.

Oh and Happy Birthday!


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## adamfahn (Aug 8, 2008)

Once you have put your milk and sugar in and pured boiling water on a spoon of coffee granules you are set.

...TAXI!!


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Please, Never.. Ever.. refurr to espresso as 'X-Factor or Big-Mac'!! HaHa! It is all just a matter of preferance, A perfectly brewed coffee, and a perfectly extracted espresso can be equally refined, complex and yeilding, it just depends on what kind of person you are and what you feel like at the time, there is no shame in enjoying whatever you enjoy, I am a lover of great coffee, the form in which i enjoy it just depends on what i fancy at the time, I have no more or less shame drinking flat white, plain espresso, french press, drip or whatever. It is easier though to control variables of a brewed coffee and in doing so, easing the process of finding the intricacies of a bean.

Enjoy coffee as you will!


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