# Mini Vivaldi II



## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

This is the start, just the machine for now, hand grinder on the way.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Looks great. But I'm biased.









Did the seller set up the temperature differential for you? If not, you'll need to do it yourself.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

Very nice machine you have there bob


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

These are good reliable machines.

However, i'd highly recommend getting a grinder that's better than a hand grinder as soon as possible to allow you to get the best out of the machine


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

Awesome machine, I'd so love to try one. I'm sure I'll own one at some point for sure.


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

lake_m said:


> Looks great. But I'm biased.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


their engineer tested the machine, so i have assumed so. Good point though, i will check, have a thermometer and will see what i find.


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## Talk_Coffee (Sep 2, 2017)

They're a great little machine and we sold them here in Oz for a while.

The only frustration of note is that in the ones I saw, the steam boiler element was integral to the boiler so a dead element leads to expensive boiler replacement.

My advice would be watch water quality to minimise the need for descaling. This will help prolong element life.

Enjoy your new machine!


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

Talk_Coffee said:


> They're a great little machine and we sold them here in Oz for a while.
> 
> The only frustration of note is that in the ones I saw, the steam boiler element was integral to the boiler so a dead element leads to expensive boiler replacement.
> 
> ...


Should be ok on the water quality front, less than 3.5 grains of hardness up in the Lake District, I threw in the ion exchange bag for good measure too.


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

Got a problem with this machine and may well need to get it back to bean heroes for them to resolve. The pump pressure is woefully low, less than 2 bar, when pulling a shot. as I don't have a grinder yet i thought it might be the beans I had ground for me. Got some more done at two shops and another at a well renowned cooffee supplier/roaster. all ground to the same size as they use in their commercial espresso machines. The latter gave the best results at 2 bar(roasted 6 days ago), the others were worse.

Popped in the blanking disc and ran the pump, straight up to 9 bar so pretty sure this isn't a pump issue. Looks like a flow issue of some description. Not seeing the warning lights for a faulty flow meter.

Real shame if i have to take it back for this.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

There's probably nothing wrong with the machine.

Pre-ground doesn't work very well. You need to grind fresh.

By the time you get the coffee home it will be as dead as a door nail (and that's if they ground it fine enough in the first place)


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

it was only half an hour from grind to my machine, i would expect the machine to reach operating pressure, or very near it. Sure, if they had been ground weeks ago and left to desiccate then i could understand.

The coffee had ground at the coffee roasters should be bang on the money for grind size, the fella knows his stuff. However, just to check, I'll borrow my mates grinder tomorrow and set it to "dust" and work my way up from there, will see how that pans out.

looking on t'net there are a few potential candidates for low flow that could be the cause.


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## Talk_Coffee (Sep 2, 2017)

BobC said:


> it was only half an hour from grind to my machine, i would expect the machine to reach operating pressure, or very near it. Sure, if they had been ground weeks ago and left to desiccate then i could understand.
> 
> The coffee had ground at the coffee roasters should be bang on the money for grind size, the fella knows his stuff. However, just to check, I'll borrow my mates grinder tomorrow and set it to "dust" and work my way up from there, will see how that pans out.
> 
> looking on t'net there are a few potential candidates for low flow that could be the cause.


There lies the potential gotcha Bob,

If the system (pump) pump pressure is circa 9 bar with a blind filter, it's coffee or technique. If it's not, it's the machine.

Regardless of how well he knows his coffee grind "stuff", he can but have a guess and hope for the best as you have different gear to what he might be using and you are also unable to necessarily replicate his dose and technique perfectly.

I wish you good luck, but recommend that you get a decent grinder ASAP so you're in full control...


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

Talk_Coffee said:


> There lies the potential gotcha Bob,
> 
> If the system (pump) pump pressure is circa 9 bar with a blind filter, it's coffee or technique. If it's not, it's the machine.
> 
> ...


I have a grinder on order, just waiting for the bugger to show up. I'll fetch my mate's one over tomorrow and try that. If that doesn't work the cause will lay somewhere in the pump feed, a blockage, leak or somesuch. With the blanking disc in there is no flow, without the blanking disc and just a coffee puck the pump has to keep the pressure on and cope with flow, so if it is partially starved on the inlet side then pressure will be well down.

Will report back tomorrow when I have tried his grinder out. Keeping my fingers crossed that it is that simple.


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## Talk_Coffee (Sep 2, 2017)

What system pressure do you see with the blind filter in place?


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

Talk_Coffee said:


> What system pressure do you see with the blind filter in place?


9 bar


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Does water come out of the group head at a good rate with no coffee in the basket?

Measure how much comes out over 20 seconds and I'll compare it to my machine.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Does the water gush out way too fast when pulling a shot?

If it does that it is almost certainly the grind.


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

OK, bit of an update. Have tried the machine with grinds from very fine to coarse, the range of pressures achieved were between next to zero and 2 bar. When I say fine I mean it had the consistency of flour, far finer than anything I would have thought necessary.

Without the porta filter on and with the machine up to temp i got 150gms in twenty seconds.

I have had the panels off and checked for leaks, none found. I removed the inlet filter in the tank and checked that the flap valve on the tank feed operated OK. Checked the pump feed spigot was properly located. No faults obvious to the naked eye.

I think I shall leave it alone and enjoy the rest of my weekend, for the sake of my sanity.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It's very odd that flour like grind produces 2 bar, but the blank produces 9 as they are effectively the same thing... not sure what element of the machine could cause such a variation.

I would double check the blanking disk again to make sure that wasn't an anomaly, but otherwise it does look like its time to take it back to the engineer who originally set it up.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

What you haven't mentioned unless I missed it is how much coffee you putting in the basket, what type / size of basket (just in case it comes with a pressurised or basket designed for coffee bagged "things") and how hard are you tamping / what with.

Just trying to rule out a few things

John


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

BobC said:


> Without the porta filter on and with the machine up to temp i got 150gms in twenty seconds.


That's a good flow - nothing wrong with the pump. And the fact that you can get 9 bar pressure with the blanking disc seems odd. How long to reach 9 bars with the blanking disc in? Should be 4 to 6 seconds. With a grind 'like flour' the machine will choke, and the gauge should read 9 bars or whatever the OPV is set to. It is really easy to check the OPV. Take the front two screws out and lift off the cover. Down at the right of the gauge you'll see the OPV, which you can turn with your fingers to set up extraction pressure. It's factory set to 9 bars. With the blanking disc in, start the pump and you'll see the gauge go to 9 bars and then water passing through the OPV outlet clear pipe. You can alter it 'on the fly' to check it's working OK.


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

Have tried both the double and single basket with both 7 and 8 gms in the single and double that in the double. Tamp is a stainless flat bottomed one designed for these baskets (53mm) and have tried forces from 30 to 50 Kg ( SWMBO wondered what the bathroom scales were doing in the kitchen







)

French press is back in service for the now.

I'll update in here once I have had their engineer take a peek, even if it reveals I have been pressing a wrong button or something. Thanks for the avice and questions, it all helps get to the truth of the matter.


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

I need to serve up some humble pie, custard or cream Sirs?

I persevered with the grind (with the tool I have to hand)and am now managing 5 bar, nearly there. What I thought was dust, forget it, this is much finer than previous. Previous was like sugar, this is finer than castor sugar, what a difference. Crema has appeared and the taste, god, it already knocks socks off what i had been buying elsewhere.

Can't wait for the proper grinder to show up!

Thanks all for the advice. Am off to the shed to make a knock box, SWMBO isn't best pleased about the state of her baking tray, oooops.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So did you never actually try and pull a shot with a flour like grind? Or are you saying it wasn't really that fine?

Also a double basket is not usually exactly double - it's probably 18-20g, not 16g, will probably be in the manual for the machine.


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## BobC (Aug 30, 2017)

Dylan said:


> So did you never actually try and pull a shot with a flour like grind? Or are you saying it wasn't really that fine?
> 
> Also a double basket is not usually exactly double - it's probably 18-20g, not 16g, will probably be in the manual for the machine.


it wasn't as fine as i thought. Now that I am grinding finer I am able to get more in the basket, which helps. Just got to 7 bar. Time for a gentleman's afternoon nap, i shall continue this evening


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Glad to hear you're getting there. Grinder should make a big difference too.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You probably will hit 9 bar when pulling a 2:1 ratio shot over a standard 25ish seconds, but if everything else is right including the taste then don't fret about it now you are seeing reasonable pressures.


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

I've got one of these. I use an instant comp basket and it says it's for 14-18g. I've discovered that the results seem best with about 15g in the basket. I set my water time (without portafilter) to 11 seconds and adjust the extraction time by grinding finer or courser.

I quickly hot used to mine and absolutely love it. My favourite machine to date.

There is a special Vivaldi forum in the USA which is easy to Google. I got a few tips from there.

I'm no engineer but if you want any tips on how to get the best from the machine feel free to PM me and I can send you my number.


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

I've got one of these. I use an IMS comp basket and shower screen. The basket says it's for 14-18g. I've discovered that the results seem best with about 15g in the basket. I set my water time (without portafilter) to 11 seconds and adjust the extraction time by grinding finer or courser.

I quickly got used to mine and absolutely love it. My favourite machine to date.

There is a special Vivaldi forum in the USA which is easy to Google. I got a few tips from there.

I'm no engineer but if you want any tips on how to get the best from the machine feel free to PM me and I can send you my number.


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

I've got one of these. I use an IMS comp basket and shower screen. The basket says it's for 14-18g. I've discovered that the results seem best with about 15g in the basket. I set my water time (without portafilter) to 11 seconds and adjust the extraction time by grinding finer or courser.

I quickly got used to mine and absolutely love it. My favourite machine to date.

There is a special Vivaldi forum in the USA which is easy to Google. I got a few tips from there.

I'm no engineer but if you want any tips on how to get the best from the machine feel free to PM me and I can send you my number.


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

Ffs.... Can a mod please sort my multiple posts out... Sorry


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