# New Pavoni owner in dire need of help



## omglolmax (Oct 31, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I just got a brand new Europiccola and am having major difficulties using it. I spent hours reading forums and watching Youtube videos before I got it and since I got it, but I still can't make anything acceptable with it.

I was wondering if there were any experienced users on this forum that live around the North of England and would be willing to do a little learning session with me?? I am in Leeds, but would be willing to travel a bit if it means I can learn how to use my new toy!! You would also be more than welcome to come to my house if you prefer.... and would profit from good karma









Here's a bit about what I've done so far...

I'm using a Rancilio Rocky grinder and coffee that was roasted 1-2 days before use.

I started using 14-14.5 grams of coffee with the double basket. But I want to make normal espresso, not ristretto. I want to eliminate doing double strokes with the lever for now, so I'm starting to try 7 grams in the single basket.

Problems I have been having:


The coffee always has very little crema

**I think** it is sour, which would indicate that the pressure or the temperature is too low. I have tried a lot of things to get the machine hotter, but it hasn't resulted in good espresso. I have tried flushing water through the group before the pull, letting steam out of the wand to release any pressure, pumping the lever a bit at the beginning to heat up the group, and preinfusing longer

When I was doing two strokes with the lever for a doppio, I could feel the puck getting sucked up into the group, which led to it being massively damaged and water channeling. I tried raising the lever for the second stroke at various points in the pull, but it always ended up cracked

Even without doing two strokes, the puck always seems to crack or get damaged. I bought a relatively cheap tamper off of Amazon and I think this might be an issue. It was supposed to be 51mm but I measured it and read 49-50. I will be replacing it ASAP

I don't know how to "feel" when I have the right amount of pressure in the lever, which makes dialing in the grind difficult, because I don't know what I'm looking for


Thanks a lot for listening to my ramblings!!

I would really appreciate anyone willing to help me out


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi & Welcome.

What's the tamper made of? If it's plastic then that's a huge issue.

Also, 1-2 days post roast is still very fresh, some roasts wont be at their peak until 7-14 days post roast. Your beans will be giving out loads of gas and can lead to inconsistent extractions, especially on something finicky like a manual lever.

Are you using a lighter or darker roast?

I wouldn't bother with a 7g basket at all, and revert back to 14. Weigh your coffee in and weigh the coffee out and time the length of the shot. Aim for something like 1:1.5 in ~30 secs to start with (so 21g out), then you can try longer shots once you master that.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi here's the routine I use...provided by rhys,

I grind 15g, slightly finer than for the Classic. Don't need to tamp hard, just enough.

When the machine is up to temp, purge the steam wand and the boiler will start up again. Run a bit of water through in to your cup to warm it up (heats the grouphead up as well). Insert portafilter loosely, lift the lever just before it's open and tighten the pf. Lift fully, leave for approx 10 seconds (pre-infusion) and then pull down. Should be quite firm to start with, but gets easier. Aim for a consistent pour by using less pressure. You can lift the lever initially, then press down slightly and lift again. You can hear more water enter the chamber, then wait 10 secs for pre-infusion. Too course a gind and it'll start to pour on pre-infuse from boiler pressure only. Too fine and you will struggle (found if you rasie the lever again quickly, you may be able to crack the puck to release pressure - better than having a sneezing fit).

As aaron said the coffee is maybe a bit fresh, I don't get a lot of crema with the pavoni either but nice coffee. I put machine on for about 10-15 mins with the portafilter loosely in before pulling a shot and temp is ok. Still learning myself.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sourness is more likely too coarse a grind, or not enough water pushed through the puck. There's no "right pressure", use pressure to keep coffee & water in contact for the desired time.


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## omglolmax (Oct 31, 2015)

GCGlasgow said:


> Hi here's the routine I use...provided by rhys,
> 
> I grind 15g, slightly finer than for the Classic. Don't need to tamp hard, just enough.
> 
> ...


Hmm, never thought about it being too fresh. Too late to wait and see now I've burned through all of it. I will let it rest a bit next time then.

I have tried all of the stuff in the rest of your post and am still not making good coffee.... It's so frustrating


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## omglolmax (Oct 31, 2015)

aaronb said:


> Hi & Welcome.
> 
> What's the tamper made of? If it's plastic then that's a huge issue.
> 
> ...


The tamper is made out of metal... it's also extremely heavy, more than others I've used.... more than 500 grams

Thanks for the tip, next time I will wait a bit to use freshly roasted coffee


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Where about in Leeds are you? I'm just outside Selby. Either you can drop by mine, or I can come over one evening if you aren't too far?


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## omglolmax (Oct 31, 2015)

Rhys said:


> Where about in Leeds are you? I'm just outside Selby. Either you can drop by mine, or I can come over one evening if you aren't too far?


Yaaaaay









I live in South Leeds (Beeston), right off the M621.

What ever works best for you! I work in Normanton, so I could also come after work one day. Just let me know


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

omglolmax said:


> Yaaaaay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More than welcome to come over, though depends on where I'm working as well. Bring the beans and tamper though.


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## omglolmax (Oct 31, 2015)

Rhys said:


> More than welcome to come over, though depends on where I'm working as well. Bring the beans and tamper though.


nice, sent you a PM


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Can you choke the machine with your grinder and beans ?? ... to me it sounds like you need to grind finer .... I grind very fine and tamp light for best results on mine ..... fine line between choking and gloopy espresso though my way ..... also get a few sneezes doing it that way


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

Wow, someone actually going to show you!!

That should knock the learning curve off a bunch. Remember that a lever...does not get timed like a pump machine, as they are two completely different animals.

Over time my technique has changed quite a bit.

I started out on my own, took a long, long..long long time to figure it out. A lever is anything but easy right off the bat. But, they can produce high quality shots after a top of the range grinder & some experience.


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

Talking about the Palavoni, In my opinion, I would not follow the common extraction rules

If I find that it taste good, I will go for it. My extraction time is always longer when compare to the common rules. If you have bottomless pf , it will help you a lot when you observe it

About the sourness, Just a point to consider: I had sourness problem with some of HB coffee beans. No matter what I tried to do, it ( the sourness) was still there. Later, in my opinion, I found out that it was the nature of the bean.

All I think you will have to need more time to try and error with Palavoni.

And just another point to remember: read and learn as much as you can, then do not follow exactly any rules, tips... ( I mean I have to adjust a bit for every rule, tip which you has just learnt) , go for the one that makes your coffee taste good.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I go by taste, not by time. I also tend to pull by pour (i.e. a consistent steady mouse tail) and you'll find that you need less and less force to maintain a steady stream as you pull.

First shot I did on the La Pavoni wasn't right, but was better than I'd managed on the Classic.


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