# Still can't pull a shot!



## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

First post on here so sorry about the long post, bit of back ground in here!

So I'm relatively new to making espresso at home. I've been appreciating good espresso for a while but cannot find a cafe locally that can produce a really good shot so I've bought into a home setup and am now hooked!

I bought a Gaggia Classic in January and can make a milk based coffee that's OK, ditched the plastic part of the Panarello wand immediately but will upgrade the wand to a v2 or v3 Silvia style.

However, I'm still really struggling to get a drinkable espresso shot. I have a manual ceramic burr grinder and I do have quality beans which are fresh. The machine came with a pressurised basket and the shots made me shudder. So acidic, un drinkable but a good extraction time and crema. I couldn't tamp with any force at all, I was just essentially levelling the puck.

I've just received a VST 18g ridge less basket today, nice bit of craftsmanship. I need to get a tamper to fit but I've tightened the grind a touch and tamping a little harder.

Shots are much more drinkable but I have almost no crema what so ever and not a lot of depth in flavour, any advice?? Really struggling.

Portafilter and cup pre heated, dose weighed at 18g.

Current planned upgrades are wand, brass group head, screen, Torr 58.4, grinder (when I can afford something decent enough to be worth it over the Hario manual).

Really appreciate any advice.


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## Quetzalcoatsy (Feb 20, 2016)

Possibly not what you want to hear, but it might be your grinder that's holding you back. Between breaking my Bodum Bistro in a failed mod attempt and taking delivery of my Lido E, I relied on my work Skerton to see me through.

Unfortunately (and this would depend on your beans) the perfect shot seemed to exist between two notches, where one would choke the machine and the other flowed too fast with only a little bit of very pale crema.

It could be something else, but it sounds a lot like grinder to me :/


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

I figured it might be. It's pretty frustrating too as it's not the fastest.

I nearly took a punt on a used Super Jolly tonight but I think they're just too big for my kitchen and the mini is out of my price bracket even second hand. Rocky or Mignonette also out of budget at the moment really.

Current options are Iberital MC2 or Sage Smart Pro. Not seen much on the sage really other than maybe it doesn't quite go fine enough for some machines. Watched a few vids on the MC2, seems to clump a fair bit. This is why I've stuck with the Hario so far.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

iMO the Sage grinds fine enough for espresso, certainly seems to work ok on my Silvia. It's an ok grinder for a newbie but I can see myself upgrading!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

B-Roadie said:


> I figured it might be. It's pretty frustrating too as it's not the fastest.
> 
> I nearly took a punt on a used Super Jolly tonight but I think they're just too big for my kitchen and the mini is out of my price bracket even second hand. Rocky or Mignonette also out of budget at the moment really.
> 
> Current options are Iberital MC2 or Sage Smart Pro. Not seen much on the sage really other than maybe it doesn't quite go fine enough for some machines. Watched a few vids on the MC2, seems to clump a fair bit. This is why I've stuck with the Hario so far.


Are you sure a superjolly is too big, a common mistake newbies make is thinking they need to keep the hopper. The Sj is not much larger than a Gaggia Classic with a 'lens hood' hopper.

Here is is next to a Classic and the MC2 you are considering (which does need to have the hopper in place, making it roughly the same height as the SJ)


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks for that Dylan, really useful. I had read that you don't have to use a hopper but couldn't find dimensions for it without.

Is it possible to modify the SJ to remove the doser and add a chute of some kind? Would just prefer to only grind what I need without too much mucking about.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

@whiteyj does this: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?29254-Mazzer-Super-Jolly-OD-Chute-3D-printed

Or you can modify with a 'fudge funnel' like so: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17913-Mazzer-SJ-doserless-mod&highlight=fudge+funnel

This is my heavily modified SJ: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?29479-Polished-Auberd-doserless-Mazzer-SJ

A doser does have its advantages however in breaking up and distributing the ground coffee.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

B-Roadie said:


> I bought a Gaggia Classic in January and can make a milk based coffee that's OK, ditched the plastic part of the Panarello wand immediately but will upgrade the wand to a v2 or v3 Silvia style.
> 
> I have a manual ceramic burr grinder and I do have quality beans which are fresh. The machine came with a pressurised basket and the shots made me shudder. So acidic, un drinkable but a good extraction time and crema. I couldn't tamp with any force at all, I was just essentially levelling the puck.
> 
> ...


Is the machine new or second hand ?

I have a VST 15g ridgeless and started out weighing 15g into it, I now put in 17g and can put 17.5g in without overfilling it.

Perhaps try upping the dose to 19g, see if that makes a difference, if not put more in. I know they're meant to have a tolerance of +\- 1g but ive found my 15g easily accepts 17.5.

Go even finer with the grinder, you say you've tightened the grind, , is it now at its finest setting?

Maybe it is your grinder, but id try upping the dose first just to rule that out.


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

It is a new machine with the steel boiler. Doesn't have the pressure release pipe.

One thing I have noticed and is still present with the VST is the pucks tend to be very wet on top of not all the way through. Very rarely have any form in the knock box.

I need to improve my levelling but there is easily more room in the basket before I get too close to the head. I do need to sort a tamper out as well but really struggling to find a good coffee shop near me to go an look at all this type of stuff. I live between Buckingham and Milton Keynes but can't find a local coffee hardware shop, only cafes that sell beans.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Are you still using the plastic tamper?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

B-Roadie said:


> It is a new machine with the steel boiler. Doesn't have the pressure release pipe.
> 
> One thing I have noticed and is still present with the VST is the pucks tend to be very wet on top of not all the way through. Very rarely have any form in the knock box.
> 
> I need to improve my levelling but there is easily more room in the basket before I get too close to the head.


Right, with the 2015 model you may well find the puck is wet after pulling a shot due to there being no solenoid valve : this doesnt impact on the taste of the shot. i always seemed to get sloppy pucks with my 2015 classic, something you have to live with

I think you should put more g's into the VST as ive mentioned especially as you are saying how much room there is left. This may also help reduce the sloppyness of the puck.

The plastic tamper, whilst not being ideal and some ridicule its use is still an instrument that you can tamp with.

Im sure you can adapt a technique that works for you until you can get a better one.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> The plastic tamper, whilst not being ideal and some ridicule its use is still an instrument that you can tamp with.


One would need to do some tests to be sure, but a tamper that loosely fits the basket and has a curved edge is going to do a very poor job of creating an even bed.

Your thumbs are 'an instrument you can tamp with' if you so wished, it doesn't make them suitable for the job.


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## thriftwood (Jan 13, 2016)

Depending on where you are between Buckingham and MK - you're probably only 30-40 minutes drive from Wellingborough and the good folks at Bella Barista - They'll have more tampers etc. than you can shake a stick at - they'll also (based on my experience) be happy to offer sensible advice. Just don't take too much money with you or it could be an expensive visit.


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks fir the tips guys. Still on the lookout for a new grinder. Would love a Mini but way out if my bracket. Will look out for a second hand Mignon maybe.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm also a new 2015 Gaggia Classic owner, and I have an Ascaso i-1 grinder which I bought for £60 from Heal's (ex-display). I'm still learning but I've managed to pull a few nice tasting shots. The most important thing has been to get the grind fineness right. Spending a lot of time on distribution the grinds evenly didn't seem to make much difference for me. The best tasting shots I have had been with 16g dose in 14g gaggia non-pressurized basket to 28-30g of brewed coffee in 25-30s. I can't stress the importance of the brew ratio! Weighing and timing everything has been a big help.

I also found this quite useful: https://www.chefsteps.com/classes/espresso

If your espresso tastes bad, usually it's extracting too quickly and your output weight is too high as a result. Ignore things like blonding for now and focus on time + weight.

I found it helpful to note my grind setting, dose, output time and weight with every shot, along with some additional notes.


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