# Tips for level tamping



## kennyboy993

Thanks to help on here I've learned that any uneven extraction problems I have are usually down to unlevelled tamping.

I pick up the pf with tamper still in after I've tamped and can see it's not level. Not sure if there's a pattern yet as only just really started to look for this.

I place naked pf on to tamping mat completely flat and tamp that way.

Any tips for how I might address this? Maybe people have had success with using a pf holder or similar. I tried the angled technique I saw an expert barista do on a vlog though made things worse.

I've got motta 58.4 competition tamper


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## rob177palmer

I have been taught hip into counter (right hip as I am right handed), elbow up vertically and 90 degrees bend push slowly and firmly until the counter "pushes back"


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## kennyboy993

Elbow up so arm completely straight Rob?


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## igm45

kennyboy993 said:


> Elbow up so arm completely straight Rob?


Kenny think you've probably seen this already. If not:


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## MildredM

Try and visualise in your mind pushing directly down straight. And yes, the correct stance makes a difference.

Edit: pushing . . . I meant PUSHING!!!!!


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## kennyboy993

Cheers guys I'll try both


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## Chap-a-chino

MildredM said:


> Try and visualise in your mind pishing directly down straight. And yes, the correct stance makes a difference.


I'd pay good money to see you do that Mildred!!!


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## Mrboots2u

there are a number of tampers that allow for even tamping , push ones, chinese ones, easy tamps etc etc ...personally i used to use my fingers around the rim to feel it it was level as i tamped


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## kennyboy993

Yeah I want to be able to do that


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## igm45

@kennyboy993 please let me know what you find works for you.

I keep thinking I've cracked it, then the next cup it's off. Frustrating, as its often nearly there, today I had a small spurt start at 25 seconds ?

Pretty sure its practice, practice, practice but open to ways to improve.


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## kennyboy993

igm45 said:


> @kennyboy993 please let me know what you find works for you.
> 
> I keep thinking I've cracked it, then the next cup it's off. Frustrating, as its often nearly there, today I had a small spurt start at 25 seconds
> 
> Pretty sure its practice, practice, practice but open to ways to improve.


Me too, one is great - next is way off.

I'll keep u up to date with any improvements. Or maybe I'll just blame my tools and get a new tamper and pretend it's fixed it!


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## igm45

kennyboy993 said:


> Me too, one is great - next is way off.
> 
> I'll keep u up to date with any improvements. Or maybe I'll just blame my tools and get a new tamper and pretend it's fixed it!


Yes,

I still have the stock basket and tamper so obviously that is it.

Once I've:

- Got a Torr Goldfinger tamper

- Vst basket

- New grinder (costing more than my first 3 cars, combined)

- New kitchen lights, its the ambience I say

- oh and a bionic arm with micrometric adjustment facility.

Then I'll have it nailed

Or, it *could* be that I just need to have some patience.


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## MildredM

igm45 said:


> Yes,
> 
> I still have the stock basket and tamper so obviously that is it.
> 
> Once I've:
> 
> - Got a Torr Goldfinger tamper
> 
> - Vst basket
> 
> - New grinder (costing more than my first 3 cars, combined)
> 
> - New kitchen lights, its the ambience I say
> 
> - oh and a bionic arm with micrometric adjustment facility.
> 
> Then I'll have it nailed
> 
> Or, it *could* be that I just need to have some patience.


New kitchen lights really make a difference. At least I can see where I'm going wrong now!


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## kennyboy993

Ha ha its not optional - we have to have them!


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## MildredM

kennyboy993 said:


> Ha ha its not optional - we have to have them!


Yes! And there's light at the end of the tamper yet!


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## igm45

Kenny,

Out of interest how is your channeling presenting itself? I found that for it to spurt is rare these days, instead I have the start one side issue and a range of between 5-8 seconds off preferred extraxtion time.


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## kennyboy993

Not so much spurting now - more like start one side and also 2 mouse tails


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## kennyboy993

Very different depending on the bean


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## igm45

Yes, same as me forgot to mention 2 mouse tails.



kennyboy993 said:


> Very different depending on the bean


Look forward to this then, I have only been using Rave signature since I started getting it right (occasionally).

Shame that you are up north, with the similar issues it would've been great to get together and see if we could crack it between us.


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## kennyboy993

igm45 said:


> Yes, same as me forgot to mention 2 mouse tails.
> 
> Look forward to this then, I have only been using Rave signature since I started getting it right (occasionally).
> 
> Shame that you are up north, with the similar issues it would've been great to get together and see if we could crack it between us.


Yeah would have been good ;-)

Must try some rave signature


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## kennyboy993

Damn those naked portafilters eh? I wonder why you don't see many cafe baristas using them..... or perhaps I'm visiting the wrong places


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## Phobic

As boots said, use your fingers around the rim and twist to make sure it's level 1st before pushing down - this is effectively what a distribution tool does.

alternate solution (which I've become much more fond of lately) is to use a distribution tool to flatten the bed off, then tamp as normal. it removes all the variance and makes it much faster.

I'm not sure what, if any, down side there is to using a distribution tool?


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## kennyboy993

Thanks - I've not tried the twist technique, will try


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## MildredM

I agree with Phobic. Once the bed of grinds is distributed and level is is easier to keep the tamp action level.


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## Bulls6000

I have got the levy tamper not only does it look great but it also gives some great results for level tamping and channeling.


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## Dylan

Just by a level locked tamper and never worry about it again.


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## Stanic

I would really like to get the Levtamp by Kafatek..looks like an ideal solution to me..oh well, maybe xmas?









I have to say that the Barista Hustle tamper ̷P̷e̷r̷g̷t̷a̷m̷p̷ with its short handle works fine, with a pinch hold I can easily feel the basket rim with my fingertips and make sure I tamp level..of course the basic thing is to place the portafilter level on the working surface.


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## kennyboy993

Wow both of these solutions look perfect for me - anyone got experience of both the puck style fixed depth tampers and the kafatek solution?

Kafatek looks to be claiming to solve the problem of different beans, doses etc with theirs


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## kennyboy993

Then again the kafatek solution doesn't do distribution does it that would be useful to me


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## MildredM

You could get one of those cheaper copies of the OCD to see if you think it would help. A few people have mentioned them, and benefited from them.


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## kennyboy993

Thanks Mildred - so the OCD does distribution and level tamp? Do you use one?


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## MildredM

kennyboy993 said:


> Thanks Mildred - so the OCD does distribution and level tamp? Do you use one?


It distributes and levels the bed ready to tamp. When I tamp now I can feel how flat and level the grounds are, and as I push down I can feel it compressing evenly (not very well explained, sorry).


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## kennyboy993

Cheers - and does it ensure level tamp? Apologies I know I should go and read though I'm doing the 3 boys breakfast - feeding time at the zoo ;-)


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## kennyboy993

Ah so it's not a tamper? I see now


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## kennyboy993

I was hoping to use an all in one


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## MildredM

No, it just distributes and levels. If I knew we were going to be away for a couple of days I would postbit to you to test!


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## Stanic

I had a chance to play with the OCD distr. tool at a barista training - it is okay to level the coffee but then I realised it only works with the top layers..I prefer to give the coffee a good stir with the little whisk and then tamp


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## kennyboy993

MildredM said:


> No, it just distributes and levels. If I knew we were going to be away for a couple of days I would postbit to you to test!


Thanks Mildred - no worries looks like I've found a reason for me to get some new coffee kit!

If I had to choose - I'm looking for a level tamping solution, my distribution is 'ok' now thanks to help from you guys. Though the one Dylan mentioned seems to do both which is interesting.

I'm leaning towards the kafatek I think - better do some reading


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## igm45

I have perservered with the wdt technique and I am now getting pretty consistent drinks.

Of my last 8 drinks there has been only 1 which started even but was slowish to form a singular stream. Even then the shot was only 2 seconds faster than the rest.

I use a cocktail stick to mix bed, downward tap on tamping mat to get rid of any air pockets. Hip to counter, then tamp until the puck offers resistance.


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## kennyboy993

Stanic said:


> I would really like to get the Levtamp by Kafatek..looks like an ideal solution to me..oh well, maybe xmas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that the Barista Hustle tamper ̷P̷e̷r̷g̷t̷a̷m̷p̷ with its short handle works fine, with a pinch hold I can easily feel the basket rim with my fingertips and make sure I tamp level..of course the basic thing is to place the portafilter level on the working surface.


Ok I've done some reading. So I'm now dangerous and not just ignorant 

Most reading of the likes of PUSH, mahglut etc say they are great but you really need to have an exact dose each time - i move around between 18 and 19g depending on the bean.

So I'm really interested in the kafatek that claims to address this. Though I can't see from the design how it ensures a level tamp as it looks the same as a standard tamper with palm handle etc.

Anyone know a bit more?


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## MildredM

The vid on this page is helpful.

https://www.kafatek.com/index.php/levtamp-auto-leveling-espresso-tamper/


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## kennyboy993

Ah thanks Mildred - looks like the top collar sits on top of the basket rim then as the lower disc does the tamping


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## Dylan

Re: distribution

Just use something to stir then shake the bed level, dead easy.


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## kennyboy993

No problems with distribution cheers - just tamping ;-)


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## Phobic

in part why people keep talking about distribution here is that if you're managing to get a level distribution then you should be able to just rest your tamper on top and press down evenly to get a perfect tamp.

having a good fitting tamper will help, other than that it's tamp/hand/arm positioning.

you can find gadets to help, but ultimately it's down to practice.

grind some bean, fill your PF, tamp - then empty the grinds out, fluff them up and do it again. keep repeating until you're confident you can get it level.

once you are stick it in the machine and see if your problems with channeling etc are reduced.

hope that help


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## igm45

Personally (I am just a noob though),

As @Phobic said I've found distribution to be the key link.

This video is worth a watch too:






It seems to conclude by saying, yes you can get reliable results without distribution tools. However, it will take time to develop these skills.I'm saving all my pennies for a e37s, so time it is for me then...

I do find occasionally I suffer one side to other issue, it was generally all starting from the same side so I knew where to start to address the problem.

It is very much a two steps forward one step back, once I've sorted one problem another seems to pop up.

I take videos of all my shots (tad sad I know) and use these to analyse where I can improve next shot.


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## eddie57

igm45 said:


> Personally (I am just a noob though),
> 
> As @Phobic said I've found distribution to be the key link.
> 
> This video is worth a watch too:


yea you and me both mate.. pulling my hair out at times and i haven't got much as it is


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## igm45

eddie57 said:


> yea you and me both mate.. pulling my hair out at times and i haven't got much as it is


Ditto

To make matters worse when videoing my efforts my shiny machine reflects, and stretches, my balding (and greying) noggin...


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## eddie57

igm45 said:


> Ditto
> 
> To make matters worse when videoing my efforts my shiny machine reflects, and stretches, my balding (and greying) noggin...


lol snap


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## unoll

I use a great leveller tamper. It gives a perfect, level tamp every time meaning you then just have to focus on distribution. There are other similar tampers out there such as the five star eazytamp etc. Coffeehit used to sell the great leveller but not any more. I have a spare if anyone wants to buy it, infact I'll put it on the for sale thread later.


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## igm45

@unoll I'm interested. Will pm you


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## Phobic

for any of your who are struggling or having problems with technique you can always post a video to get some tips.

a great way to learn


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## igm45

@kennyboy993 is this resolved now. Was the new tamper the silver bullet?


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## kennyboy993

Yes!

Levtamp and now with OCD v2 prep is so repeatable - and perfect even extraction every time.

So much so I may go back to spouted portafilter as these 2 little beauties have effectively made grind setting and yield my only variables now.

I feel a little bit of a cheat - but then again I'm looking for great extraction, not to be a professional barista.

It's not a small investment though i recommend this combination to anyone - they compliment each other perfectly in my workflow.

I'll get it recorded and posted on here after we're back from weekend away


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## igm45

kennyboy993 said:


> Yes!
> 
> Levtamp and now with OCD v2 prep is so repeatable - and perfect even extraction every time.
> 
> So much so I may go back to spouted portafilter as these 2 little beauties have effectively made grind setting and yield my only variables now.
> 
> I feel a little bit of a cheat - but then again I'm looking for great extraction, not to be a professional barista.
> 
> It's not a small investment though i recommend this combination to anyone - they compliment each other perfectly in my workflow.
> 
> I'll get it recorded and posted on here after we're back from weekend away


I didn't realise you'd invested in a OCD too. However I'm pleased it's worked so well for you and look forward to seeing the videos. There is something magical about watching a perfect extraction.

Enjoy your weekend away, anywhere nice?


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## kennyboy993

Thanks Ian - I'll deffo get the vid up.

Day on my own tomorrow so out and about - big deal to me!

Father's Day and charity run tomorrow ;-)

I'll be getting that motta and group head thermo advertised soon


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## Phobic

great to hear you got it sorted


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## Stanic

glad to hear you are happy and extracting the good stuff


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## eddie57

kennyboy993 said:


> Yes!
> 
> Levtamp and now with OCD v2 prep is so repeatable - and perfect even extraction every time.
> 
> So much so I may go back to spouted portafilter as these 2 little beauties have effectively made grind setting and yield my only variables now.
> 
> I feel a little bit of a cheat - but then again I'm looking for great extraction, not to be a professional barista.
> 
> It's not a small investment though i recommend this combination to anyone - they compliment each other perfectly in my workflow.
> 
> I'll get it recorded and posted on here after we're back from weekend away


nice one kenny,

still struggling at the moment have ordered a few things from elektros

on the advice of @stevenh thanks mate, iv ordered new burrs gigleurs shower screen naked pf etc

posted some photos a couple of weeks ago but didn't get a response on my clumping issues

it was someone else's thread think i'll try again and start my own see if that works out


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## kennyboy993

Good luck with the new kit Eddie - sounds like will make improvements.


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## igm45

eddie57 said:


> nice one kenny,
> 
> still struggling at the moment have ordered a few things from elektros
> 
> on the advice of @stevenh thanks mate, iv ordered new burrs gigleurs shower screen naked pf etc
> 
> posted some photos a couple of weeks ago but didn't get a response on my clumping issues
> 
> it was someone else's thread think i'll try again and start my own see if that works out


The naked pf will be your best (and worst) coffee purchase imho. It will cause much frustration but ultimately will result in a better cup and much better control, which leads to lots of experimentation and better opportunities to find where your tastes lie.

As you know I started a new thread and received heaps of help from the forum members.


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## Phobic

definitely make a new thread and get some advice, best to post a video of your technique, doesn't need to be great quality just use your phone and stick it on youtube


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