# Same bean different roasters different tasting notes



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Casa espresso and curve coffee both have the Columbia san Agustin decaf in - same decaf at source process and same location etc (Huila).

So I'm assuming these are from same source and therefore the same bean.

Casa notes are nectarine and caramel

Curve notes are velvety, dark chocolate, nuts, raisins

I can understand how different roasting profile can make the notes different - but this much?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> I can understand how different roasting profile can make the notes different - but this much?


It's a good question and some things to think about?


Colombians are usually a fully washed coffee washed coffees tend to have certain characteristics

Is it the profile or depth of roast, because the profile is unlikely to make those specific differences

If it's depth of roast, then perhaps one is roasting dark and one is roasting much lighter to get the Nectarine (if it's there?)

Colombians can take a medium roast and a dark roast, unusual for them to be good light roasted, they tend to end up a bit "nutty", not in a good way.

Was one set of taste notes from the cupping table (which wouldn't be a drinking roast) and for the end roast after resting

It's also a decaf so an even bigger mystery (do we know the type of decaf process, were they the same for each bean), decaf tends to kill subtle flavour notes.

Were they different crops, or processed differently (very unlikely but possible)


It's a bit of a minefield really and unless you know the derivation of the tasting notes, depth of roast and profile, it's very difficult to say....it's great marketing though and I guess it's become an expectation of roasters by their customers. If you cant taste them as different, or even taste the flavours, it might be down to you. It might set an expectation for what you think you will taste (suggestion is very powerful). *Personally I always take the tasting notes with a pinch of salt and prefer to discover them myself rather than have them suggested to me.*



*
*P.S I stopped roasting Colombians a while ago, have done the odd batch, but I tended to find them a bit meh, *unless you spent a lot of money in the green*. I almost certainly wouldn't buy a Colombian decaf for roasting as for my personal taste it would probably be even more meh..


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks Dave, lots of good learning for me here e.g. didn't know roast profile was different to roast depth.

Your comments have given me more things to read about e.g. washed, Columbian etc.

Is part of a continual quest to find a good decaf allrounder - dark chocolate but not too heavy and not roasty, balanced acidity along with it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> Is part of a continual quest to find a good decaf allrounder - dark chocolate but not too heavy and not roasty, balanced acidity along with it.


See if you can find a Brazilian decaf.


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## nufc1 (May 11, 2015)

Here's one I got for Christmas (pricy for a regular purchase) from Colonna with same origin, decaff process etc too.

https://colonnacoffee.com/products/beans-decaf

The red wine/plum is a tad farfetched in my opinion (there's a touch of acidity) whether brewed or used for espresso but it's probably the bean with the most honey-flavoured after taste ive ever had!


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Yeah same again eh - and more differing notes.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

kennyboy993 said:


> Yeah same again eh - and more differing notes.


Well, different roasters will maybe focus on different aspects that they want to highlight with their roast. Go for the one that appeals to you most. If they all roasted the same way, there would be little point in setting up their own roasteries.

Plum & honey aren't that far removed from nectarine & caramel.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Makes sense.

I basically need to keep experimenting and also choosing stuff out of my comfort zone...... it's just quite an expensive mistake when you get 250g of something you really don't like which I find is much easier with decaf


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I read this the other day - some of it is quite detailed, but there's some interesting bits on how certain stages of the roast can affect the sweetness and acidity: https://dailycoffeenews.com/2017/11/22/the-relationship-between-water-activity-and-the-maillard-reaction-in-roasting/


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I try and tune to achieve tasting notes. I think it takes a bit of imagination really. There is some info about coffee tasting about such as

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_cupping

There is more on the "official" site that mentions more aspects.

http://www.scaa.org/?page=resources&d=cupping-protocols

Despite some photo's I feel that it generally involves tasting weak coffee. Easy to try cupping if some one feels like it. Just need hot water, right sized cup and grinder setting plus a tablespoon.

I think it's a bit like crisps. Buy a packet with some flavour or the other on it and then ask yourself if it really tastes like that. Cheese and onion for instance. I used to work with some one that obtained lots of packets of unmarked crisps from time to time. They are produced for tasting sessions to see what people think they taste like. Following that they get binned or given a name.

In some cases other aspects creep into tastes. Cuban beans having a tobacco taste and Indian Monsooned having spicy note. The "taste" relates to the country. I've played with that one a lot and much depends on how it's brewed and the roast level. I usually use 9.3g of an oily dark roast - spicy, not even a hint. A lighter but still dark roast yes but too weak at that weight and OTT in a Sage double. I've bought a medium roast. 14g basket not much joy. The double with 19.5g in it more like it but a bit too strong and not much if any spice. In an odd sort of way there are similarities to my 9.3g brews. That could just be imagination. The ratio in that case was a bit over 1 to 2. With 9.3 of the oily the actual shot size I use was more or less the same. The other terms that get used on Monsooned is earthy and smokey. Earthy defeats me completely, didn't on Old Java. Smokey, I wonder what was burning. Various fruits that come up on some sites - tongue in cheek I'd suggest people compare the real thing with the coffee. I'm inclined to feel it's an odd form of marketing rather than fact. Fruity notes maybe but specific ones I have my doubts that they will be anything like the real thing really.

John

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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Raves colombian Suarez tasted exactly like strawberry milk shake in hot milk. And casa espresso did a Kenyan that absolutely tasted of tomatoes. But yes much of it is conjecture- though I can see different ways of roasting would produce different tastes.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

As well as caffeine, trigonneline & melanoidins, coffee contains a bunch of acids. Some of these are also found in fruit, like citrus fruits, apples, pears, grapes, peaches & dried fruit like prunes. So it's not surprising that the acidity in coffee can be reminiscent of certain fruit. Naturals can also pick up fruity flavours (strawberry, blueberry are common) from the flesh of the cherry during processing.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> As well as caffeine, trigonneline & melanoidins, coffee contains a bunch of acids. Some of these are also found in fruit, like citrus fruits, apples, pears, grapes, peaches & dried fruit like prunes. So it's not surprising that the acidity in coffee can be *reminiscent* of certain fruit. Naturals can also pick up fruity flavours (strawberry, blueberry are common) from the flesh of the cherry during processing.


:good:I like your choice of words MW. On the other hand I feel it's rather like wine tasting. At very experienced levels it takes a lot of training.

Coffee beans are certainly odd things. My current roast of monsooned turns out to show it's characteristics at 1 to 3 in 25 BE secs. Struggling to say that though as the after taste is too strong.







I'll be moaning about basket sizes again. Puck's dry and very loose with 19.3g in it. I'll try 20 secs next but past experience says that wont do it. I'm inclined to envy people who can use VST baskets and can work in the weight range they offer.

Personally when choosing a bean I like to see information like this. It can be just numbers.










I think it along with the tasting notes make a lot more sense. It's possible to find out what the terms mean in practice on the web. It is worth doing that. Then tune to my interpretation of that lot and if needed do anything to make a drink that I like. I haven't thrown many beans away but have tried a couple that I wont use again. One thing that has surprised me is that it's possible to get an idea of taste from origin beans that come in packages and aren't fresh roasted. Some one bought a rather expensive coffee bean advent calender. There was clearly a monsooned in it, A Cuban bean matched some fresh I have bought. Also a Kenyan that was very similar to Lidl Kenya Masla - I've binned that. Unusual taste that I just didn't like. There was also a sweet Kenya bean. I've earmarked a few of the beans that were in it. There was also some Kopi Luwak. Pleasant and rather diistinctive but I probably wont buy that fresh roasted. The Cuba bean seems to have such a strong particular flavour that I probably wont buy that again.








I suspect I will stick with the full dark oily roast monsooned in the end.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> :good:I like your choice of words MW. On the other hand I feel it's rather like wine tasting. At very experienced levels it takes a lot of training.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I dunno about the training, sometimes coffee has quite pronounced attributes...if you need training to spot them, I'd wonder whether they were there (I've not had any formal training in that respect).

A work colleague has had wine tasting training and finds coffee tricky to characterise. But sometimes things like grapefruit, pear, cranberry seem pretty clear.

Your Redber radar chart has fruity at 9 & acidity at 8. Fruit acids can be very identifiable (malic, citrus especially) even if the fruit itself might be more vague (e.g. the chart says chocolate, but Galaxy doesn't taste like cooking chocolate, which doesn't taste like 100% dark, yet it would be hard to confuse these). I'd wager that if we all tried the same drinks made from the same bean, we'd generally hone in on families of fruit/associated acidity. One man's nectarine might taste like sour plum to another, redcurrant to one might be cranberry to another, a strong note of grapefruit might be easier to detect, but level of extraction affects perceived acidity v sweetness too. E.g. the Drop LSOL we had end of last year tasted more sweet, peachy to me at high extractions, the acidity was more prominent at lower extractions and more grape-like.

To me "fruity" isn't a taste characterisation I could work with. Could mean rhubarb, or gooseberry, could mean peach/apricot, could mean tomato. I wouldn't be in the market for the sour ones, if I couldn't shake it (extracting more) or balance it with a gentler flavour I'd be out. I like chocolate but not all chocolate, I like some fruit, when it's ripe. I like other fruit when it is dried. I can tell the difference between citrus & bananas, I'd expect to be able to differentiate coffees with these notes too.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Acidity as I understand it relates to after taste not the drink. Balance is tricky. Cupping seems to be a little like wine tasting - main aim is to wet the tongue plus smell. This is the same for what so far has bean my favourite bean.










Picked mainly on 2 aspects body and acidity. plus the tasting notes. Another site I use lists numbers for similar aspects. Another site reckons that monsooned is bitter. I'd have wonder about what roast and how it was brewed. Another one says that there is nothing else like this bean and roast levels just make it stronger. Now I've used medium roast I'd dispute that depending on how much is used.








As the saying goes - what works for me may not work for others but is has resulted in a low reject rate in my case. I also read the reviews if there are any. Sometimes some of these do include taste comments of a more general nature.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You can taste the acidity whilst drinking.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Acidity is taste, not after taste ?

Cupping is to taste the coffee using a process so you are setting the same parameters for each time you do it.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

ajohn said:


> -


Acidity is a taste in my book.

Ironically isn't the diagram similar to what spiders build when they've been given acid.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It's a pity I didn't keep a link that I found that explained what the terms are supposed to mean. Google didn't bring many up. It now looks like all sorts have got into the act now. The term slurp is still about as against drink even explaining why after a fashion.

One higher acidity bean is Sumatra Mandeling yet it doesn't taste bitter. Redber's notes on that one are pretty good. Even my wife likes it. It does however leave a bit of a tang in the mouth. One bean that to me summarises balance is Jamaican Blue Mountain. It' weak and is mostly after taste. Also reckoned to be the most well balanced bean available. Not one to get from a super market going on some from Bettys that some one bought me. They were grind any old way beans. I've tried that bean from a number of sources in the past and beyond a doubt fresh roasted was way better than any I had used before. It seems to me to work well in an espresso machine too. I have tried it in other ways but not fresh roasted.

John

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Acidity is a taste in my book.
> 
> Ironically isn't the diagram similar to what spiders build when they've been given acid.


It's closer to what they build on Chloral Hydrate. Interestingly, low levels of LSD got them to weave tighter webs.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> One higher acidity bean is Sumatra Mandeling yet it doesn't taste bitter. Redber's notes on that one are pretty good. Even my wife likes it. It does however leave a bit of a tang in the mouth.
> 
> John
> 
> -


That's interesting because Sumatrans are noted for pronounced low acidity, often with a touch of earthiness.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I think you are confusing acidity with bitter/sour.

Acidity is the brightness or "zing" associated with the type of fruit flavour in the coffee. (IMO).

So take an Ethiopian Yirg which can often have lemon or other citric notes - high acidity. Then maybe a Central american coffee with more tropical fruit. It doesn't quite have the same zing on the palate.

Eat a variety of fruits and you will see. Citrus then berries tend to be very bright in the mouth, then malics like apples/pears less so, grapes, tropical fruits, melons less so again. This is reflected in coffee.

Of course if the coffee doesn't have sweetness then the citrus will come across as sour. There tends to be an association that light roasts will have sour acidity but a good light roast is sweet - I've had some very sweet lemon flavours in coffee.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> That's interesting because Sumatrans are noted for pronounced low acidity, often with a touch of earthiness.


Depends on how they are roasted. Very rarely are they roasted light. I've had one recently which has pronounced orange acidity (not sour) with notes of sweet tobacco and spices.

Commercially the norm is for medium/dark or darker roasts with Sumatrans as far as I can see.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I had a Sumtran that was roasted just past 1st crack as an experiment/accident, it was all the worst bits of coffee cliches

A sourness that was hard to shake in any form of brewing coupled with an earthy mud finish that made a sad face for days.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> That's interesting because Sumatrans are noted for pronounced low acidity, often with a touch of earthiness.


That ones odd if you look at the sweetness aspect. One balances the other -







Or so I assume. Earthyness is an odd one. I don't dig gardens seriously at times any more but freshly dug earth if it's ok does have a pleasant smell. My wife doesn't like motorway coffee even in milk drinks - except and odd little chef that decided to make more by offering double shots that the majority of people were paying for. Redber describe it as exotic - that to my mind means unusual taste. I'd agree with that. :0 Lidl Kenya Masai would get that tag for me as well. I tried Sumatra on the basis of a site that was discussing blending and mentioned it as a suitable base but not to use too much of it as it would over power the rest. How the stuff is brewed will make a difference anyway.

I was a bit dismayed by what google came up with when I searched tasting / cupping yesterday. The last time I looked it more concerned people who were one way or the other paid for tasting. Might be because fresh roasted could turn out to the the next thing everybody must have - I saw some comments recently that even Nescafe want a slice of the action. One site reckoned that that arabica has way more bad fat than robusta.








Anyway when I looker around for fresh roast supplier I found loosely speaking several types. At the extreme one might say blueberries, strawberries and marmalade and not even roast level or offer different levels. I decided to go for ones that give more information. More the better. Thanks etc but I'll stick to my understanding of the meanings of the terms. I even saw one tasting site that reckoned earthy was an undesirable aspect.







Another one mentioned "clean earth". There shouldn't be an need for clean and earthy might be a taste or a smell - who's going to take a spoonful out of the garden and taste it?

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> I was a bit dismayed by what google came up with when I searched tasting / cupping yesterday. The last time I looked it more concerned people who were one way or the other paid for tasting.


Cupping is a practical way of brewing & tasting lots of samples in a narrow timeframe. Anyone can do it, but it's often how roasters QC greens & roasts. So, yes, it is used a lot in the industry (where people are obviously paid to source & roast coffee) & has been for ~130years, but you don't need to be paid to do it, roasters & cafes often have open cupping sessions where customers can taste.



ajohn said:


> I even saw one tasting site that reckoned earthy was an undesirable aspect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you not think you are perhaps taking things a little too literally? I mean, I don't expect to find earthworms and Robin droppings in a cup of coffee that has earthy notes, in the same way I don't demand the newsagent serve me my roast beef flavour crisps rare, nor people to throw hard wooden balls at my crockery when I eat coconut flavoured ice cream.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

ajohn said:


> one mentioned "clean earth". There shouldn't be an need for clean and earthy might be a taste or a smell - who's going to take a spoonful out of the garden and taste it?


The very best ciders IMO smell earthy, in a thoroughly and gloriously unclean way... Usually described as farmyardy. So I can see that clean earth is a differential from that. In the same way that a grassy aroma is different from a fresh cut grass aroma.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Missy said:


> The very best ciders IMO smell earthy, in a thoroughly and gloriously unclean way... Usually described as farmyardy. So I can see that clean earth is a differential from that. In the same way that a grassy aroma is different from a fresh cut grass aroma.


Some naturals are more farmyardy and have that kinda dirty smell. I can imagine - though I haven't come across it that a washed or other process of coffee might still have a kind of earthy note and they're differentiating. It's hard to convey a sense of a mixture of flavours IMO and many roasters do a great job of conjuring up ideas of what you'll get in different ways.

Whilst all this tasting discussion is going on, I attended a talk from the SCAA team who were involved in the creation of the new flavour wheel at Square Mile a little while ago.

I found it all very interesting and just from memory now, it sounded like they followed fairly strict process to have independent tasters and all the flavours that are now in this wheel HAD to be corroborated by more than one person before they'd be included (I can't remember how many people had to agree). Anyway a little info on that is here: http://www.scanews.coffee/2016/01/19/reinventing-the-flavor-wheel-industry-collaborates-to-identify-coffee-flavor-attributes/ if that's of interest to somebody


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> I had a Sumtran that was roasted just past 1st crack as an experiment/accident, it was all the worst bits of coffee cliches
> 
> A sourness that was hard to shake in any form of brewing coupled with an earthy mud finish that made a sad face for days.


It's how the roasting profile got to 1st crack that will determine how much sweetness and flavour you are going to get. Could just be low quality beans though or a poor roast. But you'd expect the roaster to have brewed/cupped before sending it out.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

ajohn said:


> Anyway when I looker around for fresh roast supplier I found loosely speaking several types. At the extreme one might say blueberries, strawberries and marmalade and not even roast level or offer different levels. I decided to go for ones that give more information. More the better. Thanks etc but I'll stick to my understanding of the meanings of the terms.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I'd agree that more useful information like the tasting wheel, cupping notes etc.. helps to make a more informed choice if you understand what it is telling you. The terms are impartial. If you want to put alternative meanings to them fair enough...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Step21 said:


> I'd agree that more useful information like the tasting wheel, cupping notes etc.. helps to make a more informed choice if you understand what it is telling you. The terms are impartial. If you want to put alternative meanings to them fair enough...


I don't think my interpretation is any different to your really. Terminology maybe. My comment was down to the huge number of links that google now brings up.

It is an interesting subject all round though even the aspect that started the thread.







I've drunk a lot of monsooned. I've used 3 suppliers. The first one was Coffee Direct. The beans were dark and shiny down to oil. Several bags. They describe it as espresso roast. If I buy off them again I'll phone and ask if this means that the beans will be oily. I then switched and ordered full dark roast. What arrived was more like I would expect for an espresso roast - not oily and didn't oil up over time. That one had what I would call a bit of a bite. I'd be hard pushed to relate it to any fruit and it was slight and very much an aftertaste. Then more full dark roast. Oily again. I then wanted to order a bean that some one mentioned from another supplier noticed and they offered monsooned at a "special" roast so ordered that as well. Not oily and for me probably the worst I have tried.

I've tried other beans and can't help wondering if there will be variations down to precisely where they actually come from. Just stating some country isn't enough and it really needs named estates. Some estates such as Jampit seem to be impossible to obtain fresh roasted. So take all of the possible variations the same bean from different supplier may need different tasting notes what ever form they take. Roasting can clearly make a big difference. Brewing too. At the risk of annoying Missy I am playing with brewing pressure at times and more or less disregarding ratios. That does seem to influence bite as I refer to it. Strength of taste too but for the purpose of the exercise that doesn't matter.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Step21 said:


> It's how the roasting profile got to 1st crack that will determine how much sweetness and flavour you are going to get. Could just be low quality beans though or a poor roast. But you'd expect the roaster to have brewed/cupped before sending it out.


It was never sent out.. it was a " we had a bit of a power fault around first crack







try this is weird and horrid


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> I don't think my interpretation is any different to your really. Terminology maybe. My comment was down to the huge number of links that google now brings up.
> 
> It is an interesting subject all round though even the aspect that started the thread.
> 
> ...


Hi when you make nation of brewing with different pressures are you altering the set pressure the machine runs at , or just looking at the gauge on the from to the machine while it brews when the machine is set to 9 bar standard . These are quite different things .


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> It was never sent out.. it was a " we had a bit of a power fault around first crack
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With tasting notes like that, how could anybody refuse?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Given that I may have posted some links without reading them assuming that they were the ones I read might be best to post some others

http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/cupping.htm

Can't find the other one but this one is very similar and linked to from that

https://ineedcoffee.com/coffee-cupping-a-basic-introduction/

I still maintain for me though on the beans I have tried acidity is an after taste. Could be because I drink it but do often sip when it's cooled down a lot. Might also relate to liking full bodied dark roasts.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hi when you make nation of brewing with different pressures are you altering the set pressure the machine runs at , or just looking at the gauge on the from to the machine while it brews when the machine is set to 9 bar standard . These are quite different things .


The gauge. A BE from measurements with a gauge that does have bar on it allows a rather wide range.

John

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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

ajohn said:


> Some estates such as Jampit seem to be impossible to obtain fresh roasted.... At the risk of annoying Missy
> 
> -


Annoy me? Nope. Amuse me? Definitely. I don't annoy easily.

http://www.coffeecompass.co.uk/shop/roasted-origin-coffee/java-jampit-estate-500g.html

No need to thank me.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

ajohn said:


> I've tried other beans and can't help wondering if there will be variations down to precisely where they actually come from. Just stating some country isn't enough and it really needs named estates. Some estates such as Jampit seem to be impossible to obtain fresh roasted. So take all of the possible variations the same bean from different supplier may need different tasting notes what ever form they take. Roasting can clearly make a big difference.
> 
> -


I'm no expert on Monsooned Malabar but isn't it stored in wooden boxes to allow extra moisture into the green beans which gives it a unique taste. During thie monsooning it loses acidity but can take on wild flavours. Apparently it's brittle and difficult to roast. So one batch could be different from the next whether it is from the same estate or not.

Whether something is espresso roast or not is also widely variable and can cover pretty much the whole roasting spectrum. Sounds like you want detailed roasting notes of "we took this x seconds past 2nd crack and reads y on the agtron scale".

Personally, I'd choose a roaster who can give the provenance of a coffee and preferably a cupping score of 84 or above.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Given that I may have posted some links without reading them assuming that they were the ones I read might be best to post some others
> 
> http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/cupping.htm
> 
> ...


Well, perhaps try some cupping (I think cupping is fairly well understood on the forum, it's very much like making a French press/cafetiere) & try a broader range of beans. Acidity may be subjective, but you'll find it more prominent in lighter roasts and less objectionably tart/sour in typical brewed coffee strengths, compared to espresso. If you stick to beans with low perceived acidity (I say 'perceived' because all coffee is acidic, pH ~5.0-5.5) then it will be difficult to equate the notes you see for other coffees, to the ones you are drinking.

For example, if all I drank was Guinness, it would be difficult for me to relate to apples & cloves flavours found in a Bavarian Weiss bier.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> The gauge. A BE from measurements with a gauge that does have bar on it allows a rather wide range.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Your more varying the grind, the pressure then changes accordingly & normally. Because you are not measuring the ratio, you cannot see the relationship between grind & extraction.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

1) I was aware that I am varying the grind to change the pressure - also fill level but not to much extent. Also long shot that probably wont work out. A filter basket with different flow characteristics.

2) The Jampit isn't from the Jampit estate - or at least it wasn't when a thread cropped up discussing that very bean.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Step21 said:


> I'm no expert on Monsooned Malabar but isn't it stored in wooden boxes to allow extra moisture into the green beans which gives it a unique taste. During thie monsooning it loses acidity but can take on wild flavours. Apparently it's brittle and difficult to roast. So one batch could be different from the next whether it is from the same estate or not.
> 
> Whether something is espresso roast or not is also widely variable and can cover pretty much the whole roasting spectrum. Sounds like you want detailed roasting notes of "we took this x seconds past 2nd crack and reads y on the agtron scale".
> 
> Personally, I'd choose a roaster who can give the provenance of a coffee and preferably a cupping score of 84 or above.


It seems it's racked, stirred about and exposed to damp monsoon winds. I did talk to one supplier about processing. He indicated that it's dry hulled. It's an attempt to recreate coffee as it could be in the very early days when coffee from India became available in the UK. It came in sailing ships and as a consequence did get damp.

I haven't found much info on roasting it other than a review from some one who did it themselves. He stressed the slow darkening and also not allowing too much oil to burn off when it starts to appear. I recently used up a roast that my note with the order may have influenced. I asked for minimum oil burn off. Net result was dark beans with a moderate % of oily ones. The lot were oily within week or so.







Might have been a bad roast though. I have seen comments that redber can be a bit variable at times. I've had pretty good experiences with them but would usually order 500g. 1kg once but it can take too long to use that up at times.

It seems to be a very popular bean going on review counts on sites that supply it. I did find another that offered all 3 roasts recently so may give them a try. I suspect the bite I noticed was down to roast and how I was brewing it at the time. All was drunk but a little on the weak side down to basket sizes I could use. I'm using a medium roast at the moment but have more changes to try. The 14g basket I now have wont make it for the size of drink I make and the double which in Sages case can hold up to maybe 20 so far brings in other problems. More of a 1 dominant flavour that can hang around for a long time after drinking it. Too strong in other words. The 14g should offer more possibilities on the oily roast. There's not much scope on Sages 10g single. I have a medium dark to try before using those again.

John

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