# PID for Rancilio Sylvia with pre infusion



## MonkeyHarris

Just wondered if anyone has one?

I've been debating getting one for a while and I know they're pretty popular the other side of the pond. I am fairly happy temp surfing but I would like to speed the whole process up a bit and remove another variable. The main reason though is I understand they control the pressure better? I'm often getting channeling in the middle of my puck and can only put this down to the abrubt high pressure as I've tried everything to rectify it.

Any info appreciated.


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## DonRJ

That`s weird that you are having such a problem with channelling, we both have very similar equipment and I have no channelling problems at all. Have you checked it for pressure as it might need the OPV adjusted, a simple tweak if done carefully.

My understanding of the pre-infusion PID is that it does not control the pressure, rather it runs the pump for a short time, pauses, then carries on with the extraction, so would not necessarily resolve your problem. You could simulate the effect to find out by doing the same thing manually and see what happens though.

Don


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks Don. I was thinking about adjusting the OPV a little. Have you done this? Is it hard/expensive to work out the pressure? It's most likely me doing something wrong. I wasn't even aware till I started using a bottomless PF and noticed tiny jets spraying out half way through the shot, then looking at the puck afterwards there's always 1 and occasionally 2 pencil lead sized channels near the middle of the puck. I've tried dosing and tamping in a variety of different ways but nothing seems to have much effect (I never get side channeling). I have a curved RB but I'm sure this wouldn't be causing it. This isn't the only reason I'm pondering the idea of a PID but I hoped it might help.

May I ask which method of dosing/tamping you use? I'll go with the same and practice. Also roughly how much you're dosing? Thanks.

I did see a trick mentioned once about opening the steam valve a touch before brewing to release pressure but cannot find the details anywhere so will have a play around.


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## DonRJ

OK, I will run through my shot procedure.

Usual machine preheat (half hour at least) with PF gently locked in, I am using the standard Rancilio basket rather than the Synesso at the moment, load the PF so the coffee is slightly mounded then level it off with my spatula run across the top of the basket at 90 degrees, lose a bit of coffee doing this but it gives me consistency. Firm tamp, gentle knock to drop the loose grinds into the PF then a firmer tamp and polish ( I tend to be around 25lb ). Get the Silvia to cycle, lock the PF in and monitor temp on £5 thermometer (Ebay) and start brewing when it hits about 103 celcius aiming to extract around 90mls in 25 secs (or thereabouts). I prefer a slightly restricted (ristretto) shot as a rule.

My tamper is also curved (eurocurve), the only variable is the occasional tweak on the grinder setting when I change beans, Have not weighed my dose for a while but will check and feedback.


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks Don. Everything you've said is virtually identical to what I do except for a couple of things. I'm using the Synesso double with about 16.5g and the coffee comes to the top when ground but with no excess. I usually break up any clumps with a paper clip and give it a light shake till it looks level (I suspect this is where I'm going wrong) I haven't really been using the original Sylvia basket and to be honest I'm not sure if I get the issue with that. 16.5g in the Sylvia basket allows me to do a normal NSEW distribution with a pallet knife as there is just enough excess. I only use the Silvia basket when doing 2 milk based drinks so use it with the original PF and therefore I have not noticed any water jets. I temp surf for 30 seconds after a cycle and then pour 60ml in around 25secs (did you mean 90ml or was that a typo?) At the very least I must do the thermometer mod you have done for some consistency. Do you have a link with basic instructions on this? Sorry to be a pain. I'll try the original Sylvia basket in my bottomless PF tomorrow to see if it rectifies the problem.

I'd just like to say I hugely appreciate all the help you and the others on here have given me recently. If ever you have any computer issues (my field) just drop me a line









EDIT: Don't worry I've found your original instructions.


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## Glenn

Try to avoid tapping the portafilter with either the tamper or your hands as this may be part of the problem

After tamping, tip the portafilter upside down and any loose grounds should fall out (0.1 of a gram or less in most occasions)

Check the base of your tamper to see if there are any grounds stuck to it (even a few) and if the surface of the puck has a mirror finish to it

Any little holes at the start of the extraction or loose grounds that become dislodged with the water pressure will create larger holes as the coffee swells and moves

I'm hoping Don meant 60mls or less too...


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks Glenn. I never realised that the polish was so important but it makes sense. I'll take more care with that for certain. I did the old tip the portafilter upside trick the other week showing off to my wife and the whole lot fell into my drip tray. I thought I tamped very hard as well. I suspect I tamp about 60lbs of pressure and don't grind fine enough (hence I want a click tamp mat)


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## DonRJ

Erm yes, I got my calculation rather upside down there. it should be 45 mls, thats what comes from typing whilst watching a Martin Scorsese film. I had one and a half in my head as in the amounts my shot glasses are filled and then cheerfully multiplied a double shot amount by that rather than add one (30ml) and a half (15ml) together. Well it was a good film and as we know us men cannot multitask.

The portafilter tap thing I do is very gentle and Glenn I know it is not really the right thing to do but for me it has become part of the routine again after a spell of not doing it, I should follow your example and just turn the PF upside down.

The thermometer is a battery powered one with an attached thermocouple with a range of 0 to 120 celcius, a lot of the Ebay cheapies do not go above 70 so are no use and the seller I used doesn`t do them now.

I took the top off the Silvia, unplugged and cold of course, attached the thermocouple to a flat area on top of the boiler using a sticky pad then routed the cable so that it comes out at the right top side of the case near the front. Tied up the spare cable inside the machine out of the way and replaced the top panel so the thermostat display was dangling out of the case.I then secured the thermostat to the front right of the top panel with a bit of Blutack Easy to remove with no physical mod to the machine and I have a very handy temp display for a few quid


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## DonRJ

I have weighed my dose over four coffees this morning.

Bang on 15g consistently with the Rancilio double basket using my described technique with one change - no more tapping, I now invert. I reckon my relapse was due to the new tamper, there is a wee note to self on the doser "thou shalt not tap" as a reminder of my evil ways.


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## MonkeyHarris

Well I've pulled 3 shots this morning with some adjustments. I used my original Silvia basket in my bottomless PF with 16.5g although there was a little excess. I did a NSEW style distribution. I refrained from tapping as well (this was quite difficult







) and instead inverted over the sink. I also made sure I polished it correctly (something I've not always done). The result: No channels bar one which had some slight side channeling but I think I know where I went wrong on that one, nice imprint of the shower screen on the very dry puck and each shot a 9 out of 10. I'm going to stop using the Synesso for the time being until I need to dose upto 18 grams or more. Anyway I'm very very happy. My wife thinks I have OCD but I think you need a little OCD in this game. I'm now going to spend the day looking on ebay for a digital thermostat









Thanks Don and Glenn!


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## BanishInstant

MonkeyHarris said:


> My wife thinks I have OCD but I think you need a little OCD in this game.


Welcome to the club









Imagine like my wife, she doesn't refuse a drink.


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## MonkeyHarris

Too right she doesn't. She acts like she couldn't give a monkeys but as soon as she hears the grinder going it's "Oooh, are you doing me a latte?"


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## DonRJ

My wife Sadie usually has little to do with espresso making other than to advise me in the mornings that she has popped the Silvia on to warm up hint hint. She can actually make a decent coffee if necessary as in when I am away but prefers to loiter in bed of a non workday morning and await the arrival of a vanilla latte or even two on a lazy morning

Unfortunately she seems to be well able to monitor the benefits of my equipment purchases with the Silvia and Mazzer both being voted worthy upgrades but she is not inclined to support a move upwards machine wise, I fear she knows what I might want and the price and is making me wait til I retire next year.


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## BanishInstant

Ah, the Mazzer has been accepted - you've managed to disguise its lofty height using smoke and mirrors?


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## Eyedee

All this sounds rather familiar hahahahahaha.

Ian


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## DonRJ

BanishInstant said:


> Ah, the Mazzer has been accepted - you've managed to disguise its lofty height using smoke and mirrors?


I was fortunate with that one, it sits in a corner so doesn`t loom too menacingly into the kitchen and I was able to demonstrate rock solid shot consistency since the change in grinder. I found with the MC2 that the grind tweaking needed after a bean change could lead to a couple of sink shots which would lead to cries of "Is that coffee ready yet?". With the Mazzer, I still have to make very slight adjustment, though not often and the shots are still in the zone ie between 20 and 30 secs pre tweak rather than the occasional gusher or choker.


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