# Use the underside of a 1 cup basket to tamp



## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

To mimic a conical shape tamper.

With basket for 7-9g it allows me to be sure the center of the puck is well pressed.

I first used the basket for backflush, because of its rounded underside but testing with s fingetthe centre was not dense enough.

So I used the underside of another basket, once the centre is dense, I use the rounded basket and push with my standard tamper on it.

The puck hold its conical shape (with 7-8g grind) a good sign. With flat tamping more grind is necessary and I think it is not optimal

Better extraction.the first part is giving more taste to the whole 24g in 23 sec it flows a little fast, but I like it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Er what's wrong with a tamper


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Er what's wrong with a tamper


 Or a spice jar ?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

it's called French press ?

Latest coffee sciene says you should use a perfectly flat tamper that comes as close as possible to basket side walls. With a level puck you'll then extract optimally (given your grind settings and puck prep have been ideal beforehand)

What you did there was leaving out lateral parts of the puck - pretty sure not much had been extracted from there, resulting in a weaker beverage. Depending on what you did before, it might have produced a more palatable cup, but meant a certain percentage of waste.

Don't get me wrong here, I love an experiment! And it's truly great to read about folk trying out different ideas!! Keep it coming mate and let us know ???


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Come on. Be fair Olek likes trying different things - fair enough really.  I've already told him that he wont be tempting me with them but on the other hand it's better than always doing the same old thing.

John

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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

Than



Hasi said:


> it's called French press ?
> 
> Latest coffee sciene says you should use a perfectly flat tamper that comes as close as possible to basket side walls. With a level puck you'll then extract optimally (given your grind settings and puck prep have been ideal beforehand)
> 
> ...


 Thank you, the lateral parts also tamped. Make sence to me that a flat surface is better, the problem is to have a good tamping of that conical shape. I would agree that the middle participate less if the puck is conical, not the outer, but may be I got it wrong.

after using a distribution .tool, the outer part is dense and cannot be tamped. But the center is too soft. I had not so much succes using different baskets, to provide a "tamper profile" ,not that it does not tamp correctly the center, but it disturb the outer part of the puck and it is not easy to be sure the edges will not open/crack (may be with the distribution toll as last move ?)

But seeing a puck that did keep its original shape with that cone in the middle, I think I can try to use 2 smaller tampers, then the large one.

Indeed that does not provide a flat surface, but I did see tampers sold for the use of 8g, with a conical band at their outer part.

Remeber the goal is to use 7 grams . (my usual quantity is more 8.5 to 11gr, or 16 for 2 cups) A bartender told me it is no problem if the puck turns to mud as long no early blonding. I have no fresh coffee at hand for tests, also.

Ideally, may be use a similar basket as the one used, to provide the shape, then when the middle and begin of the outer part is pressed, add some grind (to fuilfill the center) and tamp flat. This may give a more homogenous result .(?)


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

Critics are of course welcome, Thank you, way better than ignore , this is also the goal of those experiments. I cannot be sure to understand all interactions.

I am not that bad to understand processes elements, and steps, but have not so long experience. And changing one single parameter is changing so much the final result ... 

May be my eyes did cheat me I thought I did see a conical band on the underside of one tamper , the first one.

THose rounded shapes are for the ones that fulfill their baskets ?

Mon my Mazzer, the tamper is really small, it may only compress the middle of the puck. Probably used in bars however.










Best regards . Isaac


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

I find a good process for my basket

A small tamper is mandatory (or a basket)

Put about - 6 gr in the basket

Tamp the center with small tamper.










Use the distribution tool

Add half a coffe spoon of grind or a little more, to close the "hole"

AGain distribution tool

Tamping normally

Good extraction 1g sec 20g in 20 sec


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

If I'm using my 7g LM Strada basket, I just use my 41mm tamper (with Nicknak single dosing/stepdown ring) & jobs a goodun.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Someone is taking ajohn's crown for long posts. 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

Good to hear that. It also confirm why Mazzer SJ have a small 50mm tamper

I use that one, coming from an expresso machine with small baskets I think

I asked VST and MSI what do they say ...


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

the goal is to have the puck top high enough to avoid too much water motion above it.(I think) and of course the center compressed.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

That's me triggered then ?


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

I also did find an easy method, but one may have a distribution tool. Mine have 3 lips, I dont know with others but that mean if I turn it counter clockwise it mix the grind a little dip, but more important, it moves some grind toward the centre of the basket.

SO I had very good result with a weighted dose (I think 8.5 or 9g) I turn the distribution tool counteclockwise first then the normal direction.


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

Did some ever tried to use counterclockwise the distribution tool, so to have a deeper mix of the grind ? The tool is compressing the grind more or as much as it moves it , when turned in it's normal direction. so it do not guarantee a good deep distribution.

I find that shaking the basket (small fast motions up and down) make a good start, and the distribution tool works better in that open grind.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Olek said:


> Did some ever tried to use counterclockwise the distribution tool, so to have a deeper mix of the grind ? The tool is compressing the grind more or as much as it moves it , when turned in it's normal direction. so it do not guarantee a good deep distribution.
> I find that shaking the basket (small fast motions up and down) make a good start, and the distribution tool works better in that open grind.


I tried clockwise only, anti- clockwise only & both directions (ridge-wise first, I forget which way that is). In the end, I found I got more consistent results just mixing & leveling with my fruit fork so the tool just acts as a (naked) portafilter stand these days.


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

Repartition is more important than the tamping, the tool do not much repartition , it creates a small thickness that is pressed.

Some grind is moved but really not far, with the normal use. way more in reverse.

I have used it without any prior repartition, but in the anticlockwise direction, and it work somehow (normal direction is necessary to finish)

But I take no risk and use a finger to spread the grind before that.

But I had to make my ( cheapest, about 13€) tool less large in diameter, so it pass the ridges without getting stuck in it


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Olek said:


> Repartition is more important than the tamping, the tool do not much repartition , it creates a small thickness that is pressed.
> Some grind is moved but really not far, with the normal use. way more in reverse.
> I have used it without any prior repartition, but in the anticlockwise direction, and it work somehow (normal direction is necessary to finish)
> But I take no risk and use a finger to spread the grind before that.
> ...


Mine's slightly undersized which doesn't help & changing beans regularly meant near constant height adjustments to get the best out of it.. I always gave it a stir before anyway so the distribution tool quickly became just another step for no noticeable benefit.


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

Personally I find it to be the first tool giving me good 1 cup extractions with my Ascaso basket and 8.5g

BUt I suppose that the shaking of the basket with the grind in it is yet helping to have homogenous grind in the bottom

WIthout the tool I had to use more grind to have a result. Regulation of deepness indeed, with basket changes or beans, but I did get used to that


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I tend to work to the same fill height so bean changes don't mean that levellers need resetting. Just switched from monsooned dark to saludos in medium roast. 13.5g monsooned and 14.5g of the saludos gives a slight lower fill height. 13.5 of it was too low for the basket. Probably try 14.8 next which will also change taste.

Olek is right about the levellers. Put one on an uneven heap and the higher parts get tamped more and the angles also tamp. I decided to try a 3 wing motta as the wings are deeper than some and oddly instead of my usual straight into a central pour or 2 going to one I have had several shots that start with 3, spatter about a little and then go to one. I usually use the chisel type and angle that to "mow" down the high side by putting it on at an angle to do that. If set over deep they will really tamp. I stuck 18g in the above 14g basket and it actually tamped it down enough for the portafilter went on. 15kg wouldn't do that.  Done it before - not noticed what basket was in so I know normal tamping wont get it low enough. Anyway I currently feel that the chisel type are best. 2 slopes in other words with a central ridge.

 I have a feeling that a bed of nails type leveller might just distribute them. Ideally it would need variable depth so can't see myself ever trying one.

The 14g basket is actually a 12g Fracino but used on an SDB.

John

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> I tend to work to the same fill height so bean changes don't mean that levellers need resetting. Just switched from monsooned dark to saludos in medium roast. 13.5g monsooned and 14.5g of the saludos gives a slight lower fill height. 13.5 of it was too low for the basket. Probably try 14.8 next which will also change taste.
> Olek is right about the levellers. Put one on an uneven heap and the higher parts get tamped more and the angles also tamp. I decided to try a 3 wing motta as the wings are deeper than some and oddly instead of my usual straight into a central pour or 2 going to one I have had several shots that start with 3, spatter about a little and then go to one. I usually use the chisel type and angle that to "mow" down the high side by putting it on at an angle to do that. If set over deep they will really tamp. I stuck 18g in the above 14g basket and it actually tamped it down enough for the portafilter went on. 15kg wouldn't do that.  Done it before - not noticed what basket was in so I know normal tamping wont get it low enough. Anyway I currently feel that the chisel type are best. 2 slopes in other words with a central ridge.
> I have a feeling that a bed of nails type leveller might just distribute them. Ideally it would need variable depth so can't see myself ever trying one.
> The 14g basket is actually a 12g Fracino but used on an SDB.
> ...


We used to have a manual chopper much like this one that pushes the cutter down straight then twists them as the spring pulls the handle back up. I've often thought a similar action would work well for distributing grounds.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> We used to have a manual chopper much like this one that pushes the cutter down straight then twists them as the spring pulls the handle back up. I've often thought a similar action would work well for distributing grounds.


 I might give a mini whisk a go again. Main problem is that when I was set up with a mazzer mini I found they led to shot volume changes and could also clump grinds more than what came out of the grinder.

However by trying various things using Niche I am finishing up with much flatter grinds. Just a bit of a depression near the handle side due to reach when the grinds are going in. Have to tap the heap down a lot though.

John

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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

I do not believe the mini whisk may help, may be with nails soldered at the tip.

If you have a Niche you have the steel cup, you do not use it to shake the PF ? My Mazzer SJ with distributor gives good grind

I made a metal cone to send the grind mostly in one recipe of the doser. WIth that "mod" I can obtain 9g in 9g out (a pear is sending compressed air to push the grind out) Channels polished , small metal tube made for a small quantity of grind

The pump moves the last beans at the end of grinding, and clean the undersize (if not a lot of grind goes there and may give smell of old geand with time)










Mazzer people told me no static electricity with the dose r models, and I do not see the grind clugging (is it what static does ?)

I do not like to much the idea to mix witha fork or wooden picks (let's say, it is easier to shake when turning the PF down)










The idea was to make the grinder stop sooner, but I discovered it was easier to dose while the grind fills only one segment (3 turns and the dose fall)


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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

BTW, John, is the steel cup of the Niche laid on the ridge of the basket ? My cello cup I made tend to make a small opening all around I have to be sure getting rid of. I ordered a steel cup, to be cutted to diameter, but alas never received it !

Niche sells them 22 GBL plus the same for post, which is too much 

Open basket extraction "decent" with 8.5g ,,even less (7g ?) I think I made videos. ( I tried 6g for fun but nope  )

See I did not invent :


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I number of people on here use this method to generate a puff of air to blow the remaining grinds out









A rubber lens hood. Bit of work but I managed what went in came out measured with 0.1g scales. I also used a weight over the beans to prevent them bouncing about.

I have used the cup on Niche. Mixed feeling so have been working on using it straight into the portafilter. May go back to the cup or may stick with into the portafilter. I will be trying the cup again as the burs are a lot more run in now and that may make a difference. I have used a cup on a grinder before and ran into a bit of a problem so was bound to try the other way.

Odd thing about Niche was that I found I needed to use 1/2g less dose over the mini. It then gave more taste than the mini did. I have a feeling it's down to grinds compaction as they come out of the grinder. The heap from Niche is a lot higher than others I have used.

I don't think a mini whisk will help either but has I haven't used one with Niche will try it again.

John

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## Olek (Aug 21, 2019)

I had a sillicon foldable funnel, it made a perfect joint, the small cylinder is made with an aluminium foil.

Does not look very pretty but it is efficient  hermetic

You may had some static electricity if the grind get stuck. May be adding a ground to thebody of the grinder helps (? but there is a place to add a ground under the Mazzer, in fact to rely all electrical equipments of the bar)

grounding the PF at some point (?) just ideas. Good nite


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Olek said:


> I had a sillicon foldable funnel, it made a perfect joint, the small cylinder is made with an aluminium foil.
> 
> Does not look very pretty but it is efficient  hermetic
> 
> ...


Could just be a side effect of the oily beans he prefers.


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