# Persuade me not to buy a Londinium R



## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Hello!

I used to frequent these grounds, but dropped off of heavy interest after years of not having my machine available. I've been running my old brewtus ii (2006 model) for the last couple of years and done a few repairs/servicing. However, I've not been that good to it and it's finally giving up the ghost.

It's time for a new machine, and for years I have dreamt of the Londinium I, then R. Since I'm thrust into a position of needing to do something soon, but have been out of the loop for some time, I'm being a bit lazy and asking if this is still a solid move many years on. I'm attracted to the Londinium for the simplicity - I don't want all the electronic gadgets (replaced the temperature controller on mine twice because it melted essentially). I only have a Vario grinder and I know that won't do the Londinium justice, but that upgrade will come later.

I'm looking for a machine that will last a good lifespan, be easy to maintain etc. I'm not all that experimental anymore, just order good coffee and enjoy. I want a simple life haha. I've had a quick look at the market and recent forum posts and can't see anything that would away me from Londinium, but I know people here will have had lots of discussion over new machines and experience. Since I very rarely allow myself to be so extravagant as to drop 2.5k on a new toy, I'd ask, are there any compelling arguments that this is not a good use of the money? Downsides I'm aware of include having to buy Volvic or Ashbeck (Ealing water is super hard).

Thanks for any advice!

Tom


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hello 

I think anyone with an L-R will say they are fantastic - they are, and I personally can't see any machine out there I'd rather have. If you've had a hankering for one then you'd likely feel cheated if you didn't go for it now.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Do it do it do it!

On a serious note it sounds like the R ticks all the boxes for you. The simplicity is what attracted me to it too. I cant imagine ever having to replace it due to reliability


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

if you can afford it then why not, its reputation is very solid, the aftersales support if you need it is pretty good as well.

As you say to get the best from it a new grinder is required.


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/39920-londinium-r-why-i-sold-it/?do=embed


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

A couple of further thoughts.....

The toggle switches are smoother on the newer machines imo.

The factory fitted PID and soon-to-be released App for control of this is a bonus.

Heat up time *can* be annoying if you arrive home mid afternoon and fancy a quick coffee. To solve this all you need is to have a La Pav alongside ?


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

I've been considering an L-R for some time myself and was pretty much on the verge of getting one, when a realisation hit home - more on that in a moment.

The L-R appears to be a well supported quality product that has so many things going for it. The support pages on the company website together with friendly user advice from this forum speak volumes for how well this machine is thought of in the home coffee making environment. I've found a wealth of information on the L Support pages and Reiss keeps on top of queries as they come in. He seems to have a lot of patience, believe me, I know, as I've asked some stupid questions all in the name of research. Owners genuinely seem bowled over by its performance and it's simplicity is a feature that really appeals to me.

Like you, I haven't changed my machine in over 10 years - but mine is still going strong. The thought of a new challenge and a final forever machine excites me, BUT the only thing that's holding me back from buying one is it's power consumption credentials. The boiler isn't lagged and to heat up the heavy group takes about an hour. Reiss recommends a timer switch so that it's warm by the time you get up. It seems a lot of energy use to knock out two doubles in the morning. The machine is rated at 2.4 kW. Don't get me wrong, I may still go for one, but Im trying to reconcile this issue with an eye to my impact on the environment and my coffee consumption habit.? It all boils down to choice in the end and what factors are important to you.

As you could be potentially buying directly from Londinium, the opportunity to see one in the flesh is a little limited, but understand Reiss is happy to Skype / FaceTime with a view to going through the machine with you - what a service!

I believe there is an App that is due to be released shortly that enables you to alter the pre-infusion parameters, another bonus particularly if you like to experiment with your roast levels on your coffee.

As mentioned in an earlier post within this thread, the expense will not stop at the machine - a quality grinder is also needed to get the best from the L-R. Reiss seems to favour the Monolith - good luck with trying to get one. Like the L-R, I guess they could be classed as a considered purchase.

Good luck with your deliberations.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

There is one for sale in the for sale section at the moment however I would consider it somewhat overpriced based on it seeming to lack the digital pre-infusion (£300 to add) and being around 2 years old. You might be able to haggle a bit though.

Not going to lie, if I had the money spare I would have one of these. I love the look of them and I haven't heard many bad things said about them.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

mctrials23 said:


> There is one for sale in the for sale section at the moment however I would consider it somewhat overpriced based on it seeming to lack the digital pre-infusion (£300 to add) and being around 2 years old. You might be able to haggle a bit though.
> 
> Not going to lie, if I had the money spare I would have one of these. I love the look of them and I haven't heard many bad things said about them.


It's only overpriced if you can get another one for cheaper. These machines have been working fine without digital pre-infusion for years so while it may be nice to have, it certaimly isn't a necessity.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Marocchino said:


> Reiss recommends a timer switch so that it's warm by the time you get up. It seems a lot of energy use to knock out two doubles in the morning. The machine is rated at 2.4 kW. Don't get me wrong, I may still go for one, but Im trying to reconcile this issue with an eye to my impact on the environment and my coffee consumption habit.


The heat element is not constantly on once it reaches the temperature. I take these measurements from the smart switch with a pinch of salt, but here you are... 
It's turned on daily for 2 hours with an exception of 3 days where it's on from early morning to late afternoon when I'm at home. 









It's surely more than a kettle for brewed coffee, but it's not crazy amount. My bill was bumped by few pounds now, but I also got an electric clothes drier plus few other things.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Thanks @PPapa for providing the useful information. I fully realise that the energy consumption will depend upon the time it takes for the stat to come up to temperature and cycle. This cycle rate will amongst other things depend upon the ambient temperature of the room that the group is shedding heat to.

I too use the in built power consumption app within my wifi switch for my E61 machine.

As a point of interestI've been following threads on L-R boiler lagging and also there's this older one;

https://londiniumespresso.com/news/energy-consumption-londinium-i

The link gives a real world consumption figure from Reiss for a larger 2850W element and I thought it fair to infer from it a ball park indication of potential energy consumption for the L-R. Your energy consumption figure in relation, isn't that wide of the mark...... tempting! ?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> It's only overpriced if you can get another one for cheaper. These machines have been working fine without digital pre-infusion for years so while it may be nice to have, it certaimly isn't a necessity.


 The fact that there are quite a lot of people who would love a Londinium R and it hasn't sold suggests that it might be overpriced but this is obviously an entirely subjective matter.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I haven't ever tried this, but keep meaning to try a folded towel over the machine and cups to help heat up time. That plus has already been said, a few flushes of the group once the boiler is up to temp would reduce waiting time. I quite often leave a coffee bar towel across my cups on top and they heat up far more than without, in fact they are usually too hot to hold while I pour the milk.

Once it is up to temp the stat to keep it up there only kicks in now and then. I'd be guessing but the red light was on for about 10 seconds just now and hadn't been on for possibly 10 minutes before that.

I suppose quite a few machines are going to seem extravagant for just a couple of cups a couple of times per day but that is a different consideration.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I narrowed it down to two machines L.R or the Vesusvius I picked the Vesuvius, If I was to get another machine it would be the L.R. Like it was said if you can afford it buy it or you will kick yourself.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MildredM said:


> all you need is to have a La Pav alongside


 that... ?

I'd go as far as to say that all you need is a LaPav. period. ?


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## Sparkyx (Oct 23, 2017)

I'm sad to see a few of you refer my L-R as being overpriced. I priced it accordingly from what previous L-R's have sold for, and as stated in my sales thread, has over £200 worth of extras. I would like to say that offers are considered, but was unable to edit my post shortly after the post was made.

Also, if some/all of the additional accessories are not wanted then please let me know as I will be happy to sell them separately.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I thought it was a very fair price personally @Sparkyx


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Hasi said:


> that... ?
> 
> I'd go as far as to say that all you need is a LaPav. period. ?


 So have you taken the LR off your wish list ?.. What machine are you selling first ???


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

MildredM said:


> I thought it was a very fair price personally @Sparkyx


 Especially with that bespoke tamping station ?


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

MildredM said:


> I thought it was a very fair price personally @Sparkyx


 Yeah I also thought it wasn't badly priced considering the extra bits

Regarding energy consumption I haven't found any increase in my monthly bills so the use must be minimal. Unfortunately my smart plug doesn't read energy consumption, but for reference my machine has averaged just shy of 6 hours per day


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

There's been few LRs for cheaper that lingered for a long time, it's just timing. Holiday season, long after bonus periods, people who want a Londinium will get one and hold on for their lifetime (or so it seems), etc...

It will get sold as it's more than decent price considering extras, it's just people want a Rolex for a price of a Casio.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm similar in terms of wanting low maintenance, not much experimenting with different beans etc. I love my L1 (the ease of maintenacne/cleaning just isn't lauded enough in folks' reviews IMO!) and the LR doesn't appeal to me in the slightest as I know for my bean preference the enhanced pre-infusion would not likely be noticed by my taste buds. Save yourself a grand or more and get a pre-loved L1.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

To save on Ashbeck/Volvic etc. Get a water filter and go plumbed in. Once you plumb a machine in you won't look back.

I thought about getting a Londinium once, but then I had to buy the Speedster to save a few marriages :classic_laugh: I also have a La pavoni so I've sort of got it covered in that respect.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks for all the input guys. Must say, it doesn't sound like there is much of a compelling reason for me to not go ahead....

I have another outgoing to take care of soon, but should be able to order in a month or two! How exciting. Regards to plumbing in, I cannot do that due to location of the machine. Regards to heat up time, I always have mine on a digital timer socket anyway, so it comes on nice and early in the morning.

I hope that by the time I order, the wireless module is already installed etc


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Jony said:


> I narrowed it down to two machines L.R or the Vesusvius I picked the Vesuvius, If I was to get another machine it would be the L.R. Like it was said if you can afford it buy it or you will kick yourself.


 It is exactly the same for me.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

tohenk2 said:


> It is exactly the same for me.


 the buying or the kicking part?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Monkey_Devil said:


> Thanks for all the input guys. Must say, it doesn't sound like there is much of a compelling reason for me to not go ahead....
> I have another outgoing to take care of soon, but should be able to order in a month or two! How exciting. Regards to plumbing in, I cannot do that due to location of the machine. Regards to heat up time, I always have mine on a digital timer socket anyway, so it comes on nice and early in the morning.
> I hope that by the time I order, the wireless module is already installed etc


Where are you based. If you're near to me you can come and have a go if you want.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks Planter! Right in London myself though  To be honest having hobbled by with a Brewtus that has been trying to die for a long time, I'm sure a LR will blow me away anyway 

Niche grinder is a new name on the market though and I will eventually need an upgrade to the Vario, so I might pick your brains over how that's working out for you at some point


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Monkey_Devil said:


> Thanks Planter! Right in London myself though  To be honest having hobbled by with a Brewtus that has been trying to die for a long time, I'm sure a LR will blow me away anyway
> Niche grinder is a new name on the market though and I will eventually need an upgrade to the Vario, so I might pick your brains over how that's working out for you at some point


Not a problem at all. I think the Niche is a very good grinder at the price. It hits a good share of the market until you start looking into titan territory.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Perhaps I posted my first post to CFUK in the wrong category? I put it under "levers", thinking it qualified. I will repeat it here, and hope it is not an annoyance to do so.

I am new to owning an espresso machine (although I have used the Pavoni with good success). I prefer the more "Italian" style espresso, which seems increasingly difficult to find. I specifically want to avoid future machine upgrades, so my question is, do I go for a used Londinium 1 (I am considering one I saw that was advertised as a "first run Londinium 1"... what exactly does "first run" indicate?) or do I forget the used L1 I saw and instead save up to buy a new Londinium? Thank you for any insight you can pro﻿vide.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Deidre said:


> Perhaps I posted my first post to CFUK in the wrong category? I put it under "levers", thinking it qualified. I will repeat it here, and hope it is not an annoyance to do so.
> 
> I am new to owning an espresso machine (although I have used the Pavoni with good success). I prefer the more "Italian" style espresso, which seems increasingly difficult to find. I specifically want to avoid future machine upgrades, so my question is, do I go for a used Londinium 1 (I am considering one I saw that was advertised as a "first run Londinium 1"... what exactly does "first run" indicate?) or do I forget the used L1 I saw and instead save up to buy a new Londinium? Thank you for any insight you can pro﻿vide.


 If you prefer a darker italian roast the the older L1 will do you fine, you are not going to get a huge advantage from the new Londiniums with the adjustable pre infusion .


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

I think "dark" would be darker than I go. I am in the medium-dark camp, I suppose.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Medium-dark camp is considered dark round these folks ?

Maybe someone who has had both and used a variety of grinders and beans can give you more insight, but based on what I was told when I asked the same question, it comes down whether you prefer medium or darker(L1 is perfectly fine) or if you like light to medium then the LR is the better option. myself and systemic kid tested out the L1 against the LR with a Niche and 2 different light roasted beans and they were pretty close!

You would need to tell everyone which grinder you currently have?

Have a read through the thread I posted up.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/45082-londinium-1-vs-r/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=651320&embedComment=651320&embedDo=findComment#comment-651320


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

I have a Kinu grinder.

I read the link you provided, and thank you for that relevant post. I didn't see the results of the side by side testing, or did I miss it in my haste? I'll look again.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Fez said:


> myself and﻿﻿﻿ systemic kid tested out the L1 against the LR with a Niche and 2 different light roasted beans and they were pretty close!﻿


 Those were the results. Not exactly scientific but we just went off taste.

You will definitely need a better grinder. So unless you've already budgeted for that seperately then you should definitely do so.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Fez said:


> Those were the results. Not exactly scientific but we just went off taste.
> 
> You will definitely need a better grinder. So unless you've already budgeted for that seperately then you should definitely do so.


 Good to hear the taste results. (The grinder is also in the air as I work through this decision.) Thank you.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Fez said:


> Those were the results. Not exactly scientific but we just went off taste.
> 
> You will definitely need a better grinder. So unless you've already budgeted for that seperately then you should definitely do so.


 I don't see much mention of the Kinu hand grinders here, and the above comment indicates it isn't a match for the Londinium? This surprises me a bit, as it seems to have excellent reviews for use on the Slayer and other well-regarded espresso machines. I realize there are those who enjoy using a good hand grinder and those who do not, but apart from that issue, are there any thoughts from this group?


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

I don't have any experience with the Kinu, so maybe someone else can comment. But if I were going for a hand grinder I'd be looking more at something like a HG-1


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

I have an M47 - great hand grinder. Capable of grinding fine enough for espresso but would not recommend pairing it with a Londinium if you want to get the best out of the lever.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> I have an M47 - great hand grinder. Capable of grinding fine enough for espresso but would not recommend pairing it with a Londinium if you want to get the best out of the lever.


 I see. It is good to have this feedback on the Kinu (with the Londinium). If I didn't go the HG-1 manual route, what would you suggest as a step up or an equivalent in electric grinder options, when paired with Londinium?


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

What's your budget?


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Fez said:


> What's your budget?


 Up to or in the vicinity of £1000, but willing to spend enough to gain the benefits of the Londinium; no point in having the Londinium otherwise, right? (I will also be searching used.)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Few months back, paired a Niche alongside my EK43s against a Londinium Mk II and a Londinium R. The Niche produced good shots but was, understandably, not able to hit the notes the EK could. Point to note, the beans used were a lighter roast. Above, you mention your tastes are towards medium dark. So you might want to think about a conical grinder. With a budget of £1k, you should be able to get a really top class grinder that will get the best out of a Londinium - especially if you are willing to consider used.

A word of caution - advice is just that. If you can, try and find some hands on experience - especially regarding a decision to go for a conical vs flat burr grinder using beans roast profile you enjoy.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Few months back, paired a Niche alongside my EK43s against a Londinium Mk II and a Londinium R. The Niche produced good shots but was, understandably, not able to hit the notes the EK could. Point to note, the beans used were a lighter roast. Above, you mention your tastes are towards medium dark. So you might want to think about a conical grinder. With a budget of £1k, you should be able to get a really top class grinder that will get the best out of a Londinium - especially if you are willing to consider used.
> 
> A word of caution - advice is just that. If you can, try and find some hands on experience - especially regarding a decision to go for a conical vs flat burr grinder using beans roast profile you enjoy.


 Wise & solid words of advice, I will heed.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Few months back, paired a Niche alongside my EK43s against a Londinium Mk II and a Londinium R. The Niche produced good shots but was, understandably, not able to hit the notes the EK could. Point to note, the beans used were a lighter roast. Above, you mention your tastes are towards medium dark. So you might want to think about a conical grinder. With a budget of £1k, you should be able to get a really top class grinder that will get the best out of a Londinium - especially if you are willing to consider used.
> A word of caution - advice is just that. If you can, try and find some hands on experience - especially regarding a decision to go for a conical vs flat burr grinder using beans roast profile you enjoy.


Couldn't agree more. I'll just add that it's night and day between those two on light roasts.

Everyone fancies a fancy espresso machine, but you really need to make sure you're using a decent grinder with it.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

The advice given by the systemic kid is spot on. The Niche has filled a big gap in the market and most are pleased with it if they have it. Doesn't mean it the best grinder for you. But more than likely will do the job well and save you some of your budgeted fund.

FYI I currently run a new LR with the Niche and am happy.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

For its price I don't think there's anything else that comes close to the niche (new Vs new).

 I also have the new LR with a niche(for now) and although the niche has been up to the task I feel like there is a bit more to be had. I just have big flat burrs calling me


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Planter said:


> The advice given by the systemic kid is spot on. The Niche has filled a big gap in the market and most are pleased with it if they have it. Doesn't mean it the best grinder for you. But more than likely will do the job well and save you some of your budgeted fund.
> 
> FYI I currently run a new LR with the Niche and am happy.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 The Niche seems to be the popular grinder, no doubt about it.

(I noticed in your signature you use the Puqpress, a device that intrigued me when I saw it recently. How do you like it?)


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

I will try to sample an espresso from a flat burr and from a conical, to see which I prefer. Since I favour medium to dark roast, I had assumed conical would be the better match, but I may be missing full potential.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Would an HG-1 give me any better results than a Niche?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Having owned a HG1 - yes.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Deidre said:


> Would an HG-1 give me any better results than a Niche?


 Not had both on the bench but there question is depends on the price.

HG1, new ,at this change rate , for me massively over priced $1000 before shipping and taxes. It's potentially 2.5 times the price .

If you have access to, a better priced second hand hg1 and you like hand grinding espresso, then it's a question worth asking. Probably only a few people had one side by side at the same time though.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Deidre said:


> The Niche seems to be the popular grinder, no doubt about it.
> (I noticed in your signature you use the Puqpress, a device that intrigued me when I saw it recently. How do you like it?)


Hg1 is a nice big burr hand grinder and would be better than the Niche imo. However they are very different so make sure it's what you want as the Hg1 is not cheap in comparison. And rarely come up second hand.

As for a puqpress. It's lazy but works flawlessly. Would I pay full price for one. No. Would I pay a discount to have one, yes, why not. And that's what I did.

As for a grinder I will likely get a large flat at some point as very rarely drink anything beyond a medium roast with preference for lights.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Deidre said:


> The Niche seems to﻿﻿﻿ be the po﻿pular grinder, no doubt about it.


 Because you are seeing positive comments all the time. As soon as anyone says they were less impressed it starts unwanted discussions/arguments re price/taste/versatility and whatever else. And there is only so much time you can give to typing away on a keyboard - all of which would take 2 minutes to discuss verbally.

There have been people who bought them and were less impressed. It's such a personal thing though.

At one time I'm pretty sure people didn't think about single dosing at home, they stated with a grinder with a hopper. The last time I talked to what's-his-name at North Star they were selling the Sette (a grinder c£300) alongside the LMLM. They hadn't even heard about the Niche (when it was already in circulation).

I am not sure about this but as you get 'into' it you start to think nothing less than this (expensive/pricey) grinder and that (ditto) machine are the way to go. I am fairly sure we didn't all start out with £2k set-ups though and while in the long run it may be prudent to spend as much as that to save money changing in future it seems ridiculous. I didn't buy a car 10 years ago thinking 'that's it for life'!

My friend loves her coffee. It's from Nespresso pods! If she wanted to go up a level she would think it was bonkers if I suggested spending a couple of grand, as though that was what you'd need to d to produce a half decent cup of coffee. She would probably be happy with a mid range Sage.

Why don't we see the Eureka mid priced grinders mentioned these days, or the Compak (at one time Reiss at Londo was happy to suggest a mid range Compak, if I remember correctly).

Speaking for myself (and I don't give a dot if people disagree with my opinion) I didn't rate the Niche. Before you ask, apart from other reasons (and don't ask me to start listing them off) the taste in the cup was lacking anything I'd produced with my E8 (a grinder which you could possibly find for not much more than the N), or the HG-1 (yes, more expensive). Was it better than a Sette? A Mignon? I don't know.

I think I am trying to say there ARE other grinders out there you may wish to consider. I don't think one person can tell you what to buy, we all prefer the grinder/s we own probably.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Because you are seeing positive comments all the time. As soon as anyone says they were less impressed it starts unwanted discussions/arguments re price/taste/versatility and whatever else. And there is only so much time you can give to typing away on a keyboard - all of which would take 2 minutes to discuss verbally.
> There have been people who bought them and were less impressed. It's such a personal thing though.
> At one time I'm pretty sure people didn't think about single dosing at home, they stated with a grinder with a hopper. The last time I talked to what's-his-name at North Star they were selling the Sette (a grinder c£300) alongside the LMLM. They hadn't even heard about the Niche (when it was already in circulation).
> I am not sure about this but as you get 'into' it you start to think nothing less than this (expensive/pricey) grinder and that (ditto) machine are the way to go. I am fairly sure we didn't all start out with £2k set-ups though and while in the long run it may be prudent to spend as much as that to save money changing in future it seems ridiculous. I didn't buy a car 10 years ago thinking 'that's it for life'!
> ...


I totally agree with M on this.

I dont class the Niche as the be all and end all. Does it fit a lot of people's needs.... Yes.

Are there better grinders out there.... Yes.

But for a price point it does a good job. And is better than the mignon I had previously. That doesn't mean the mignon isnt good and that some wouldn't prefer the mignon to the Niche.

Horses for courses. As with everything there are probably better options. But it does for a good price point IMO.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Choosing any product is a matter of taste and that usually involves balancing the perceived pros against the inevitable cons. These variables are all subjective and are therefore perceived differently by each individual.

There will always be the temptation to go with the herd as far as choosing a particular piece of kit is concerned, whether it's a coffee grinder, smartphone or any other consumer product. I guess for a grinder choice it boils down to what sort of drinks you enjoy, if they're milk based, are you really going to be able to tell the difference between a grinder with a specialist burr set and a Eureka entry level grinder? I pose the question because with age our taste buds don't get keener. Though I'm led to believe tastebuds can be educated, perhaps I'm at an age where that's a lost cause.

Nothing beats trying a grinder before you buy it and seeing what suits your taste. Bella Barista I'm sure will be more than happy to accommodate you in that quest. Enjoy the journey!


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## Chap-a-chino (Mar 31, 2017)

Marocchino said:


> I﻿ guess for a grinder choice it boils down to what sort of drinks you enjoy, if they're milk based, are you really ﻿going﻿ to b﻿e able ﻿﻿t﻿o ﻿t﻿el﻿l th﻿e diff﻿erence b﻿etw﻿een a grinder with a specialist burr set and a Eureka entry level grind﻿er﻿?﻿


 Yes. If you can't, stick to Nescafé.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Chap-a-chino said:


> Marocchino said:
> 
> 
> > I﻿ guess for a grinder choice it boils down to what sort of drinks you enjoy, if they're milk based, are you really ﻿going﻿ to b﻿e able﻿ ﻿﻿t﻿o ﻿t﻿el﻿l th﻿e diff﻿erence b﻿etw﻿een a grinder with a specialist burr set and a Eureka entry level grind﻿er﻿?﻿
> ...


 Even my knackered taste buds are not that keen on the thin taste of Nescafé - I graduated from Nescafé to stove top and gave that up about 25 years ago - perhaps it'll end up going full circle one day - hope not.

The grinder analogy was a poor example to illustrate a point, flooding coffee with milk can by and large mask many of the subtler flavours supposedly gained by a high end grinder.

I guess It really depends on the style of coffee you drink, choose the grinder that compliments that style.

If you like Nescafé, that's fine too.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Marocchino said:


> Even my knackered taste buds are not that keen on the thin taste of Nescafé - I graduated from Nescafé to stove top and gave that up about 25 years ago - perhaps it'll end up going full circle one day - hope not.
> The grinder analogy was a poor example to illustrate a point, flooding coffee with milk can by and large mask many of the subtler flavours supposedly gained by a high end grinder.
> I guess It really depends on the style of coffee you drink, choose the grinder that compliments that style.
> If you like Nescafé, that's fine too.


Not sure why you bothered replying to that, you're right in the point you made. It's not cut and dry but I wouldn't be looking at anything above say an atom if all I and guests drank was lattes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Thanks for the response @KTD, I was dragged up to be polite so I responded politely. Not sure why discourse heads in this direction when there's a disagreement. ?


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

I will add that I am one of those rare creatures who finds milk does not always make a less than stellar espresso better, nor hide shortcomings. For me, it can make a drinkable espresso less so, and bring out undesirable flavours. (I have both tastebuds & a sense of smell that are too acute for my own good, much of the time, but on occasion they can be very rewarding. Such is life.)


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

MildredM said:


> Because you are seeing positive comments all the time. As soon as anyone says they were less impressed it starts unwanted discussions/arguments re price/taste/versatility and whatever else. And there is only so much time you can give to typing away on a keyboard - all of which would take 2 minutes to discuss verbally.
> 
> There have been people who bought them and were less impressed. It's such a personal thing though.
> 
> ...


 You are very much hitting the mark. I recall a couple of years ago, everyone raved about the Sette 270, and it became the chosen one. And now the Niche has taken that spot.

I have a suspicion it may be hard to match a good quality hand grinder (in the cup) with an electric grinder that would fall in an affordable price range, but I am a mere layman. (Those more informed will likely challenge my suspicion.)

Our tastebuds are unique, not transferable, which makes the choice of grinders all the more challenging. I fear I may end up with more grinders than I had anticipated by the time this journey reaches its end.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Deidre said:


> . I fear I may end up with more grinders than I had anticipated by the time this journey reaches its end.


Great! Isn't it?

Our journey ends six grinders deep. Approximately.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

It's well known the optimum number of grinders is n+1 where n= the number of grinders you currently own.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

A perfectly extracted shot of espresso will taste better in a milk based drink be it macchiato, corticosteroids, flat white etc than a bad shot of espresso, so the grinder will influence the final drink however subtly that may be


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

I run a L1 with an HG-1 and a Niche. I prefer the HG-1 both for taste and for the interaction with the grinder. However the difference in taste is not night and day. The niche performs very well and if I am making several coffees in a row I use it for convenience (several shots in a row can be a bit of a work out on the HG-1). Still makes great tasting coffee ?

The L1 itself is always a joy to use. Makes great coffee, consistently with no fuss and is easy to maintain (with fantastic support from Reiss).


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Jollybean said:


> I run a L1 with an HG-1 and a Niche. I prefer the HG-1 both for taste and for the interaction with the grinder. However the difference in taste is not night and day. The niche performs very well and if I am making several coffees in a row I use it for convenience (several shots in a row can be a bit of a work out on the HG-1). Still makes great tasting coffee ?
> 
> The L1 itself is always a joy to use. Makes great coffee, consistently with no fuss and is easy to maintain (with fantastic support from Reiss).


 Very helpful to know. I have just bought the L1 (which amazes me!) and the grinder will be my next decision.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Deidre said:


> Very helpful to know. I have just bought the L1 (which amazes me!) and the grinder will be my next decision.


Good decision. Where did you get your L1 from?

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Just seen on the other thread 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Congratulations on your new machine. Great choice. I am sure you will love it


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Planter said:


> Good decision. Where did you get your L1 from?
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 It was the result of a sad loss, but I will appreciate it all the more knowing I am receiving it under bittersweet circumstances.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Well, I thought I had a chance at a used HG-1, but I missed out. (Not twice lucky, it would appear.) There is a used Compak e5 for about £100 less than a new Niche. Question is, is the flavour better from one than the other grinder, with the L1? @MildredM mentioned good flavour from an e8 when contrasted to Niche; is the e8 comparable to the e5 in this specific regard? (I realize taste is subjective, but just trying to get a sense of differences in the cup.)


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Posts such as mine are no doubt annoying to the group, as we new users struggle to complete an espresso package. Forgive us, please.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

It's fine you need to make the right choice, better than buying it then asking.


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