# ACS Minima (Production machine)



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I thought it worth starting a thread for the production machine as I think any more posts on the old beta thread is not hugely helpful. I am trying to complete the review and update the beta user guide to a final version as quickly as possible. I will try in the review to list many of the changed areas...or as many as is relevant and that I can remember. I think it's great that Bella Barista are carrying the machine and it seems to be proving popular already even though they were not sure about it's looks. Personally i think it's nice not to have the usual rectangular steel box.

Here is the first video of a shot from the production Minima.


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## Pliers (Feb 1, 2019)

I'm very much in a steep but enjoyable learning curve with my recently acquired Minima. One aspect which I'm finding challenging is steaming milk. After reading a number of posts I understand practice makes perfect but one thing which I think may help is a two hole steam tip, my machine only came with a three hole. Can any one point me in the right direction to purchase the correct fitting tip. I would also like to get a bottomless portafilter and again advice on compatible brands would be much appreciated.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I am also interested in one hole steaming tip for vesuvius if they are similar.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Pliers said:


> I'm very much in a steep but enjoyable learning curve with my recently acquired Minima. One aspect which I'm finding challenging is steaming milk. After reading a number of posts I understand practice makes perfect but one thing which I think may help is a two hole steam tip, my machine only came with a three hole. Can any one point me in the right direction to purchase the correct fitting tip. I would also like to get a bottomless portafilter and again advice on compatible brands would be much appreciated.


I'll try to remember to have a look at this and perhaps see what I can find.


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

Glad I didn't hold off until Minima to get a nice machine -- that took longer than I'd thought! That said, looks like a hell of a machine for the price. I like it.


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## Vollbart (Jan 27, 2019)

I'm also interested in how to acquire a two hole steaming tip and a compatible bottomless portafilter. I'm minded to just take a punt on an eBay portafilter, but they give the impression of fitting specific machines and don't advertise the wing measurements. Even if they did, I'm not entirely sure how to measure them.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Pliers said:


> I'm very much in a steep but enjoyable learning curve with my recently acquired Minima. One aspect which I'm finding challenging is steaming milk. After reading a number of posts I understand practice makes perfect but one thing which I think may help is a two hole steam tip, my machine only came with a three hole. Can any one point me in the right direction to purchase the correct fitting tip. I would also like to get a bottomless portafilter and again advice on compatible brands would be much appreciated.


With a 3-hole tip I would probably go as vertical as I can into the centre of the milk just under the surface and count then gently lower a little. This is the approach that I find best with the Vesuvius (Minima has more power as I understand it so as a starting reference 200ml in the V is 8 secs initial gentle surf then gentle plunge for another 10 to 12 secs)


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## Pliers (Feb 1, 2019)

Thanks for the tip PaulL, I'll give it a try.

With regard to ebay sellers I contacted Edesia for advice but the reply was that it depends on the thickness of the lugs with no further advice so not much help really.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I think you're better off learning how to use a three hole tip. I went from a single hole expobar to the three hole minima and instantly got better microfoam. I only steam about 200ml at a time if that. Trick is to incorporate air from the very start and get the milk swirling straight away, when it is about body temperature you'll want to be just mixing. I start very slightly off centre and on an angle so the spout is touching the wand (it's repeatable this way), with the tip half submerged I turn the tap quickly (be confident and get it going) and after a few seconds of hissing/tearing/kissing it gets to body temp and I submerge a little deeper and leave the milk spinning until about 15 seconds it's getting too hot to touch and it's done.

Coming from the one hole tip the biggest thing to learn is when to start turning the tap off because it isn't instant and a couple of extra seconds will burn the milk!


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## Pliers (Feb 1, 2019)

PaulL and Rob1, could I ask what size of milk pitcher you use.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

I have 5 or 6 jugs to be honest, accumulated through the years in conventional shape and also torroidal but my favourite is an Ilsa about 10 years old maybe more. I just checked the capacity and it's 0.5L, I can't see it out there on the web but it looks like the 0.75L one in this link https://edobarista.com/en/product/250-anniversario-milk-pitcher-750ml


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

350ml Motta Europa. Fairly certain the capacity is measured to the brim rather than the ideal quantity of milk (I guess that changes).


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

25cl motta europa for flatties & 35cl motta europe for cappalattes. Tried the 35cl for flatties before but find it's too little milk to get good microfoam with.


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

Is the power cord hardwired on the Minima? I live in Switzerland and there's only one online shop which sells the machine totally overpriced. So I'm considering ordering from Bella Barista, but I'm not a fan of clumsy adapters and I would prefer if I could just replace the power cord.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

No it's not hardwired, it plugs into the rear, STD connector.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

mvogler said:


> Is the power cord hardwired on the Minima? I live in Switzerland and there's only one online shop which sells the machine totally overpriced. So I'm considering ordering from Bella Barista, but I'm not a fan of clumsy adapters and I would prefer if I could just replace the power cord.


Why not just replace the plug? It's easy enough to do so.


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Why not just replace the plug? It's easy enough to do so.


In most cases that I know of you loose the warranty


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

mvogler said:


> In most cases that I know of you loose the warranty


Not with Bella Barista. I've done this myself (and checked with them before hand) on three occasions.


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not with Bella Barista. I've done this myself (and checked with them before hand) on three occasions.


Good to know, thanks!


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## Vollbart (Jan 27, 2019)

Bella Barista are now stocking two hole steam tips.

Making progress with the 3 but with the small quantities of milk in using I'll give the 2 a try.

Now just to find a suitable bottomless portafilter


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I bought a tiamo handleless pitcher that holds 300ml to the brim. I've been using it to steam 115-120ml of full cream milk with the 4 hole tip and get good microfoam. I placed the shot stand under the steam wand (there's only one position you can lock it into the drip tray with the little lugs so this should be repeatable) and put the jug onto it, then pushed the wand as low as it would go so it was facing back towards the machine with the tip partially submerged just slightly off centre and opened the valve. After a couple of seconds of aeration the milk was spinning and rising. Within about 15 seconds it was done to my taste but could be heated longer if you want it a bit hotter (I finished at about 50-55c).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm just posting this to give me a reminder to post the link to the final review in this thread. However for those who took part in the beta, a list of changes is available on the my review site..

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/04/10/acs-minima-beta-to-final-machine-changes/


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

There's a steam temp firmware bug? I'd be interested in reducing pump noise with better mounting, is this just something like silicone padding?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> There's a steam temp firmware bug? I'd be interested in reducing pump noise with better mounting, is this just something like silicone padding?


yeah, you need to watch the beta review vids and stuff more carefully (plus I posted about it) about the display bug. If I remember rightly, set the offset at +3C for the service boiler, then whatever temp you put in on the PID will be the real temp it reaches, but it will show you a temp 3C lower, or something like that. This means you can put in 130C on the PID and although it might say 127 it will actually reach 130. You can check the temp you're really getting here. The Gicar has a hard coded firmware limit of a real 130C, so with the offset, you can't make it even bigger and get above 130C. it also has a programmed limit which prevents you setting a value of more than 130 in the PID, so to overcome that you use an offset....watch the vids

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/boiler-pressure-and-water-temperature

I think all of the Betas had the bug

They actually changed the pump mounts and moved the pump slightly, because remember the new machine has no dual gauge in side the case. It might be the pump is touching the case, so you could try a bit of padding?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I remembered about that after I posted but I thought I'd seen it listed as things fixed for the betas. Will have to check, I can just look at the boiler pressure anyway. I'd be interested in seeing this new expansion valve, the one in the betas seems beefy! Definitely bigger than the one in the expobar.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> I remembered about that after I posted but I thought I'd seen it listed as things fixed for the betas. Will have to check, I can just look at the boiler pressure anyway. I'd be interested in seeing this new expansion valve, the one in the betas seems beefy! Definitely bigger than the one in the expobar.


It definitely is a nice beefy valve. The temp display bug is fixed in the production machines, and a few other things. I actually have a firmware flasher for the Minima and the flash file with the software. So the betas can be reflashed to fix the bug and to upgrade their LSP to the same LSP as used on the Vesuvius.....That said it would be better to wait and not bother with the reflash just yet, because there might be a few things in the pipeline.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

OK, the reviews are public....there is a short review for people in a hurry and a long review for those that want to really learn something about the machine. Theres a bit in there that's going to upset some retailers...but what the hell.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

Hi Dave - did ACS drop the 2-hole steam tip from supplied accessories (as mentioned early in your review), however listed as an optional accessory at end of review?


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## Vollbart (Jan 27, 2019)

They dropped it from mine, in fact I didn't get any felt pads either, just the grippy ones.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Vollbart said:


> They dropped it from mine, in fact I didn't get any felt pads either, just the grippy ones.


They kicked an arse in the factory. Luckily they are cheap in the £1 bucket in Tesco's. You would be amazed at how many I have gone through fitting them on review machines for years


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Amazingly affordable replacement boiler prices quoted there. Well done ACS.


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

My minima operates at 12bar from the factory. Has anyone adjusted their machine to 9bar as mentioned in the review? Are there instructions on how to do it?

Thanks


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

yep davec as a video of how to do it. Not to difficult to find @Hindsight


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

joe said:


> Amazingly affordable replacement boiler prices quoted there. Well done ACS.


That's why the retailers will hate me...I did everything I could to make sure they stick to MSRP or ACS will sell em direct. I can't do much about USA, but I suspect Jim (1st Line) will probably play ball. There is no profit in those boilers....but then they don't expect to have them fail (so profit wasn't really an issue)....The choice of boiler allowed them to give the customer a boiler that was way superior to the run of the mill stuff and any copper boiler allowing Incolloy 800 elements and surgical steel.

Backflushed mine with cleaner today...nice just to be able to do it and not worry about stripping down to lubricate anything









P.S. Apparently the Minima is proving popular, this pleases me because things are tough for the smaller guys in Italy and this needs/deserves to sell well.


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

I just talked to a shop owner here in Switzerland who has a beta machine and is from the area where they build the machines. He told me that they have orders for about 100 machines pending and I would have to wait several months to get one. Seems to be popular indeed!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I don't know, I will talk to Paolo and see...sounds a lot? Perhaps I'm a tad suspicious.


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

joe said:


> Amazingly affordable replacement boiler prices quoted there. Well done ACS.


where are boiler spares quoted? LOL - only receiving my Minima tomorrow and already looking at spares!!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

In the full review. 80 euro for brew, 100 for service.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

..


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

By running at 9bar, instead of the factory presett, have folk noticed an improvement in coffee taste, or this more to put less strain on components?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Hindsight said:


> By running at 9bar, instead of the factory presett, have folk noticed an improvement in coffee taste, or this more to put less strain on components?


It's for taste, I run at around 9 bar, you can run at that, or some people like 8 bar, others between 8 and 9 or even 7 bar. The expansion valve is a good quality one that's very adjustable. Some of the cheaper expansion valves won't allow for pressures lower than 9 bar, as they can either leak or simply can't divert enough water to get the pressure any lower. The article below covers things and the Minima Expansion valve is the large one on the right in the photo.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/opv-over-pressure-valve



mvogler said:


> I just talked to a shop owner here in Switzerland who has a beta machine and is from the area where they build the machines. He told me that they have orders for about 100 machines pending and I would have to wait several months to get one. Seems to be popular indeed!


Paolo thought this was a bit odd as I did for 2 reasons. Firstly he wasn't aware of any shop owners having a Beta Machine, the beta was only to 5 members of this forum (plus I had alphas and betas) and one machine went to the USA. No other beta machines were sent anywhere. The second reason is that although orders have been made and are fulfilled, he is not aware of 100 back orders and of course he would be..My suspicion is that the shop owner is saying, you will have a long wait for one of these, why not get "this other machine" instead. Fortunately for you (if you are actually interested in getting a Minima), Bella Barista have stock or will have imminently and can probably ship a machine out to you


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

Ok, maybe some of it was just sales bogus. But the beta machine was standing there in his shop (with the pressure gauge still on the side). He even offered me the machine at a decent price. But if I get one I want the final production machine with all the improvements.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mvogler said:


> Ok, maybe some of it was just sales bogus. But the beta machine was standing there in his shop (with the pressure gauge still on the side). He even offered me the machine at a decent price. But if I get one I want the final production machine with all the improvements.


Odd, it wasn't sold to any retailers, perhaps someone sold their beta machine to them, or perhaps one of the beta people was either posing as a normal user, or started a business?...the beta program wasn't designed for retailers, it was designed to get feedback from real people.


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks Dave, you're always so helpful! I will take a look at video too!

Whilst you are on, I think the manual suggests 18g coffee and 40g out in 35-45 secs. Is that still 'the best' with the lower pressure? Also presume the timing is as per minima's own timer rather than from when espresso first appears in the cup (about 10 secs after you flick the brew switch on mine)

Thanks again


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Hindsight said:


> Thanks Dave, you're always so helpful! I will take a look at video too!
> 
> Whilst you are on, I think the manual suggests 18g coffee and 40g out in 35-45 secs. Is that still 'the best' with the lower pressure? Also presume the timing is as per minima's own timer rather than from when espresso first appears in the cup (about 10 secs after you flick the brew switch on mine)
> 
> Thanks again


Yes that's absolutely right, just use the machines built in shot timer, this way you're always being consistent. Actually I should update the manual, because I find with the standard double basket supplied for many coffees 17g is actually a better amount. I don't use the very much single, so can't really say for that.

I probably do 1:2 as a starting ratio, then you can go more or lest as the coffee/taste dictates, hopefully that's in the manual, if not I may well have to correct it. So for 17g in start at 34g out and then either go for less or more depending on you and your preference for that coffee.


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## buderim (Feb 7, 2019)

Hi Dave , I saw on your blog review you use a wifi switch to turn the machine on and off , I have always wondered how many kw it uses having a small espresso machine on all day , does your wifi app give you daily totals ?

Thanks.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

buderim said:


> Hi Dave , I saw on your blog review you use a wifi switch to turn the machine on and off , I have always wondered how many kw it uses having a small espresso machine on all day , does your wifi app give you daily totals ?
> 
> Thanks.


It uses an average of 70W per hour Mine is on 17 hours per day (and 15 hours per day at weekends) with an average daily consumption of 1.4 kWh. It would cost you less than 20p per day at UK electric prices. If you have the steam boiler on all the time, a little more. Not quite double, but probably 70% more....personally I recommend turning the steam boiler on only when you need to on all dual boilers. You will find that advice in the user guides of most of them.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Not sure if this deserves its own thread so I thought I would stick it in here. I descaled my beta minima over the weekend and since then the group head doesn't heat up. The boilers come up to temp but the group head is still cold after 30 minutes. Hot water comes out but it's obviously lost a fair bit of heat to the metal as it comes through.

Any ideas anyone?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

How did you descale it exactly....perhaps you have a lot of air in the boiler, but that depends on the method you used?

There are diagnostics you can do, but for now...let's get a bit more info.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

mctrials23 said:


> Not sure if this deserves its own thread so I thought I would stick it in here. I descaled my beta minima over the weekend and since then the group head doesn't heat up. The boilers come up to temp but the group head is still cold after 30 minutes. Hot water comes out but it's obviously lost a fair bit of heat to the metal as it comes through.
> 
> Any ideas anyone?


Out of curiosity,

Was there a need for descaling or just "routine"? Is your water really hard?

Did you use the draining valves on the boilers? How did you descale it? Did you try priming the circuit to remove any air?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I descaled as per the instructions in the manual for both the brew and service boiler. For the brew boiler I used the more long winded but simple version (not taking the sensor out and manually draining/siphoning).

And I did it more as a precaution and on the basis that getting rid of light scale frequently is easier than a heavier descale less regularly.


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## Pflunz (Apr 15, 2019)

Hi, just a little question since I think about buying an ACS Minima, a Profitec Pro 300 or a Lelit PL92t Elizabeth. I like the Minima a lot, but I am afraid that the heating of the E61 group takes too long. What is the minimum time I should wait for the first espresso? I read that the boilers are in less than 10 minutes on target temperature, but I think the E61 was originally designed to prevent overheating of a two-circuit espresso mashine (don't know if this is the right term), so it acts as kind of heat-sink (but also as heat buffer due to the mass).

I am sorry for this question, but I couldn't find the answer anywere.

Thanks

Gerald


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

Pflunz said:


> Hi, just a little question since I think about buying an ACS Minima, a Profitec Pro 300 or a Lelit PL92t Elizabeth. I like the Minima a lot, but I am afraid that the heating of the E61 group takes too long. What is the minimum time I should wait for the first espresso? I read that the boilers are in less than 10 minutes on target temperature, but I think the E61 was originally designed to prevent overheating of a two-circuit espresso mashine (don't know if this is the right term), so it acts as kind of heat-sink (but also as heat buffer due to the mass).
> 
> I am sorry for this question, but I couldn't find the answer anywere.
> 
> ...


About 35-40 minutes, nothing serious if you are using a progamable switch.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> I descaled as per the instructions in the manual for both the brew and service boiler. For the brew boiler I used the more long winded but simple version (not taking the sensor out and manually draining/siphoning).
> 
> And I did it more as a precaution and on the basis that getting rid of light scale frequently is easier than a heavier descale less regularly.


If you did it the way mentioned in the manual (long winded brew boiler version), then the cause shouldn't be air in the system. Unless your water is really hard, I wouldn't have thought you have owned it long enough for scale to have broken off and clogged a pipe. So even though you didn't introduce air into the system, it sounds like air must be in there. It is possible the descaler foamed and dragged air into the thermosyphon (that air being in there because it's a very new machine)?

The brew boiler has a very specific feed that I asked for where the top pipe goes into a special fitting with a 3cm pipe brazed to the bottom of it. This ensures that small (well actually quite large) drops in water level won't stall the thermosyphon. Other vertical boiler machines don't have this, they either shut their eyes put their fingers in their ears and ignore the problem.....or have a tall thin boiler that they have to incline, but it doesn't work that well. Depending on how old the machine is, air can be trapped right in the top of the boiler during manufacture...this air gradually gets absorbed with use (hot water/pressure effect on trapped air in boiler). it's possible you were on the limit and tyhe air would have been gradually absorbed, then descaler produced enough gas to allow the water level to drop slightly in a cold boiler. Cold water shrinks. Then when it warms up as the water expands again some air is forced into the thermosyphon tube.

The thin inclined boiler, Rocket or Lelit will give a tiny bit of resilience to water level drops, but will actually be quite susceptible to a large amount of trapped air allowing some air into the thermosyphon as the water level drops

You don't say this, but I'm going to guess that once you run water through the E61 the thermosyphon probably starts working and this is an initial heat up phenomenon?

You can do one of 2 things...if you wait the air should absorb into the water over time. Or *with a cold machine*, undo the top panel (6 screws). Then carefully loosen the electronic thermostat on the brew boiler (it uses PTFE). Turn off the heating elements (R H Button press and hold) and with a blind filter in the group run the pump and listen for air coming out or water coming out.....effectively bleeding the system. Then retighten gently (It's PTFE). If you feel you have to turn it too much to get it to bleed air or water, stop because you don't want it shooting out. Switch machine off, remove it completely, fill boiler with water to brim, use syringe if you have to....then replace it after putting 5 turns or so of PTFE on it (PTFE tape goes on anticlockwise as you view from top). you don't have to get it really tight, just gently nip up, it's the PTFE that does the sealing, not how hard you screw it in.

P.S. If it's cable tied to the wiring loom, you nay have to cut it free and retie the loom...leave it free of the loom. I asked them not to cable ties the thermostats to the loom, but they probably forgot. This way you don't over twist the wires when removing.

Bored can't write any more, but of you have more information to give like age of machine, hardness of water, whether it only happens on initial warm up, does low water detection work properly, check the supply hose for splits above the water line etc.. etc.. then I'll be happy to guess some more. *Lots of guessing in the absence of information*, so you might do well to give as much info as possible. Oh putting your location in your profile would be super handy (for you), for all I know, you might be 2 miles from me?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Thanks very much for the reply Dave, I bought the machine from you at the start of December and I am based in Tunbridge Wells these days.

I have had the machine on for about 45 minutes and the mushroom was cold still but I just run water through it for 5 seconds and 5 minutes later the mushroom is very hot so I assume that trapped air stopping the thermosyphon is the issue.

If I can avoid having to mess around in the internals I would like to for now. How long is it likely to take for that excess air to be absorbed into the water naturally? Weeks or months most likely?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Thanks very much for the reply Dave, I bought the machine from you at the start of December and I am based in Tunbridge Wells these days.
> 
> I have had the machine on for about 45 minutes and the mushroom was cold still but I just run water through it for 5 seconds and 5 minutes later the mushroom is very hot so I assume that trapped air stopping the thermosyphon is the issue.
> 
> If I can avoid having to mess around in the internals I would like to for now. How long is it likely to take for that excess air to be absorbed into the water naturally? Weeks or months most likely?


Most likely weeks yes. As it's the beta 1 machine I had, then it works well and must be trapped air. One thing that might help speed the process up, is when the machine is completely cold in the morning. Run the pump.....Repeat this for a few mornings. Doing might help get a little trapped air out. I used the machine for a long time and didn't have any problems.

Just in case the trolls get the wrong Idea. You *collected* the Beta 1 machine from me and *paid* ACS for the unit together with a years warranty from ACS. Otherwise people will think you purchased the machine from me....which is not correct. I just needed the space and to see ACS pay to return it, then break it up for parts sort of annoyed me.









I believe you got this incredibly good Minima deal...

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?47176&p=639403#post639403


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Lovely, thanks again Dave. I'll try your suggestion about running the pump cold and see if it disappears in a few weeks. If not I will open her up.

And yes, this is a beta 1 machine I collected from Dave who was kind enough to spend a few hours chatting to me and explaining how it worked and giving me a demo. Paolo at ACS received all the money for the machine,


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I have created a version of the latest userguide 1.6 to be viewable in a web browser on a mobile phone. Would appreciate it if the beta testers have a look and see what they think of it. Obviously view the link in your mobile browser.

https://sway.office.com/xofz72xFBgYyiWqi?ref=Link&loc=play

I thought it would be handy to simply have your phone with you beside the machine, rather than a printed guide (especially if there are later updates).


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Looks good to me.


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## gus6464 (Jan 29, 2019)

Sadly in the US 1-st line decided to not only price the machine out if it's intended range but they are bringing it branded as caffeum perfectus which is the cheap home appliance brand. Complete disservice to ACS and what they were trying to achieve with the Minima.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

gus6464 said:


> Sadly in the US 1-st line decided to not only price the machine out if it's intended range but they are bringing it branded as caffeum perfectus which is the cheap home appliance brand. Complete disservice to ACS and what they were trying to achieve with the Minima.


Clearly they don't want it interfering with the machines they make a lot of money on!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The interest I have in the Minima was as a disruptor to the overpriced market for espresso machines and trying to deliver something good for HX money, or close too... without being the clusters,@#k of design of the old expobar DB.


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## gus6464 (Jan 29, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> The interest I have in the Minima was as a disruptor to the overpriced market for espresso machines and trying to deliver something good for HX money, or close too... without being the clusters,@#k of design of the old expobar DB.


Exactly and 1-st line went ahead and priced it more than an expobar plus giving it branding that equates to cheaper, appliance type equipment. All they push now is Lelit Bianca so I guess they were afraid of the Minima disrupting the sales of that.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> The interest I have in the Minima was as a disruptor to the overpriced market for espresso machines and trying to deliver something good for HX money, or close too... without being the clusters,@#k of design of the old expobar DB.


is the old expobar db of cluster @#k design by any chance the same expobar machine given a glowing review by the Bella Barista reviewer. How is this contradiction to be understood?

https://bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/ExpobarBrewtusIIcloserlookv6.pdf


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Nikko said:


> is the old expobar db of cluster @#k design by any chance the same expobar machine given a glowing review by the Bella Barista reviewer. How is this contradiction to be understood?
> 
> https://bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/ExpobarBrewtusIIcloserlookv6.pdf


Times change.

The review is about 13 years old. Home espresso machines have improved, offer more features, and the standards are generally higher. The Brewtus 2 doesn't even have a proper PID, it uses a fridge thermostat, of course the Brewtus 3 and 4 fixed that and added the ability to turn brew and steam boilers on and off independently....seriously Nikko, it baffles me that this stuff need to be explained to you.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> Times change.
> 
> The review is about 13 years old. Home espresso machines have improved, offer more features, and the standards are generally higher. The Brewtus 2 doesn't even have a proper PID, it uses a fridge thermostat.


I was going to say the same about the age of the review, but couldn't find a date on the pdf document itself.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I was going to say the same about the age of the review, but couldn't find a date on the pdf document itself.


I just went off the machine build date photographed on the second page.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Rob1 said:


> Times change.
> 
> The review is about 13 years old. Home espresso machines have improved, offer more features, and the standards are generally higher. The Brewtus 2 doesn't even have a proper PID, it uses a fridge thermostat, of course the Brewtus 3 and 4 fixed that and added the ability to turn brew and steam boilers on and off independently....seriously Nikko, it baffles me that this stuff need to be explained to you.


in terms of concept design, there is no difference between the Minima and the Expobar db of many years ago. You say that the latest version of the expobar also has a 3 term temperature controller, so no huge difference there. In fact, the expobar, unlike the minima, preheats brew water so is a more advanced design. The "innovations" of the minima concern performance and construction compromises (no mechanical preinfusion and inability to replace heater elements) to get cost down to the expobar level. Some progress!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Nikko said:


> in terms of concept design, there is no difference between the Minima and the Expobar db of many years ago. You say that the latest version of the expobar also has a 3 term temperature controller, so no huge difference there. In fact, the expobar, unlike the minima, preheats brew water so is a more advanced design. The "innovations" of the minima concern performance and construction compromises (no mechanical preinfusion and inability to replace heater elements) to get cost down to the expobar level. Some progress!


You're talking to someone who owns both currently and has owned and used the Expobar for about 4/5 years. It's clear to me you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The preheating of brew water is not a more advanced design at all, in any way, and the fact that you think it does is hilarious because if anything its one of the bad things about the design. Just to provide me with some comedy can you tell me why you think it's a good thing?

As for your other points they have already been addressed but you seem incapable of accepting it for some reason.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Rob1 said:


> You're talking to someone who owns both currently and has owned and used the Expobar for about 4/5 years. It's clear to me you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The preheating of brew water is not a more advanced design at all, in any way, and the fact that you think it does is hilarious because if anything its one of the bad things about the design. Just to provide me with some comedy can you tell me why you think it's a good thing?
> 
> As for your other points they have already been addressed but you seem incapable of accepting it for some reason.




Here is some comedy you asked for. This is what Davec wrote about the Expobar db brew water preheat:

"They ingeniously pass the cold water from the tank, through a small *Heat Exchanger *in the steam boiler, to warm it up before it goes into the brew boiler water. This is clever because it prevents the brew water temperature dropping when making coffee, unlike some other machines."

If you are right and the design is no good, then what is written above is another example of hyped up bollocks to push a machine, just like the Minima.
​


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## gus6464 (Jan 29, 2019)

Nikko said:


> Here is some comedy you asked for. This is what Davec wrote about the Expobar db brew water preheat:
> 
> "They ingeniously pass the cold water from the tank, through a small *Heat Exchanger *in the steam boiler, to warm it up before it goes into the brew boiler water. This is clever because it prevents the brew water temperature dropping when making coffee, unlike some other machines."
> 
> ...


The only "hype" of the Minima is that ACS wanted to make a DB machine and sell it at HX pricing, that's it. They pretty much succeeded with that in the UK at least as BB is selling it at the target price. So I fail to see what's misleading about the Minima.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Nikko said:


> Here is some comedy you asked for. This is what Davec wrote about the Expobar db brew water preheat:
> 
> "They ingeniously pass the cold water from the tank, through a small *Heat Exchanger *in the steam boiler, to warm it up before it goes into the brew boiler water. This is clever because it prevents the brew water temperature dropping when making coffee, unlike some other machines."
> 
> ...


I asked why you think it's a good thing today, not why Dave thought it was a good thing over a decade ago with the Brewtus 2.


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## ncrc51 (Mar 14, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I have created a version of the latest userguide 1.6 to be viewable in a web browser on a mobile phone. Would appreciate it if the beta testers have a look and see what they think of it. Obviously view the link in your mobile browser.
> 
> https://sway.office.com/xofz72xFBgYyiWqi?ref=Link&loc=play
> 
> I thought it would be handy to simply have your phone with you beside the machine, rather than a printed guide (especially if there are later updates).


Looks great. Easy to read and follow on the phone. Thanks.


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

It's a rare thing when an item is cheaper in the UK than in the U.S.. £1,200 is about US$1,600, yet 1st Line is selling them for $1,900. Luckily they say they price match, so I'll just point them to the Bella Barista site.









https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/brands/acs-minima-dual-boiler-espresso-machine.html


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Can't see them price matching a foreign website.....you could always try to buy direct by contacting Paolo on the forum just be aware of the cost of importing and any tax you'll have to pay.


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Rob1 I agree with you, I was kinda taking the piss.









As for importing I don't think there is an import charge, but the air freight might hurt a little, plus then who does warranty work? That's the issue.

Why did they re-brand it though and why is Paolo and ACS ok with that?


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

@Rob1 would you be good enough to give your honest comparison between the Minima & Expobar. I ask as I have an Expobar, but am considering the Minima so an opinion from someone with both machines would be an advantage with the decision making. Just after a brief overview of the good & not so good points of both if you'd be so kind.

Thanks in advance

***


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

No idea...ask them?

The warranty is parts only. Something goes wrong you get the parts shipped and fit them yourself, if you aren't up to that you can probably just employ someone to do the work for you locally buy you'll have to cover the cost. Of course if the machine arrives damaged it would be replaced.


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> No idea...ask them?
> 
> The warranty is parts only. Something goes wrong you get the parts shipped and fit them yourself, if you aren't up to that you can probably just employ someone to do the work for you locally buy you'll have to cover the cost. Of course if the machine arrives damaged it would be replaced.


Rob I may be misreading it, but the 1st Line site says '2 years parts and labour'.


Warranty limited to manufacturer's defectChoose an option2 year parts & labor



With instructions or a Youtube video I can generally muddle through anything.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

********** said:


> @Rob1 would you be good enough to give your honest comparison between the Minima & Expobar. I ask as I have an Expobar, but am considering the Minima so an opinion from someone with both machines would be an advantage with the decision making. Just after a brief overview of the good & not so good points of both if you'd be so kind.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> ***


I'd see the Minima as an incremental upgrade to the Expobar generally. There are some really nice things about the Minima but if you've bought a new Expobar I wouldn't say sell it for a loss and buy a new Minima. If I were in the position of selling the Expobar and getting a new machine at full RRP I'd go for the Bianca or V. If you bought it second hand and face losing about £100 or nothing selling it then paying a bit more for the Minima then I'd recommend it.

Design/Build:

- The steel boilers are a definite upgrade offering greater corrosion resistance and they don't impart a taste to the water as copper/brass boilers do.

- Just from touching the machine around the group it seems the group is better insulated from the case than the Expobar, logically this should make it more temperature stable and energy efficient (though without measuring I can't say how significant this is).

- The OPV/expansion valve is accessible through the drip tray on the Expobar, on the Minima you need to remove the cup warmer. This is technically a point against the minima, however I found the OPV on the Expobar susceptible to leaks when adjusting whereas I haven't seen that on the Minima's commercial larger OPV. You could upgrade the OPV on the expobar but then it wouldn't be accessible through the case...

- General accessibility to the boilers, OPV, pump etc is MUCH better on the Minima. The Expobar requires partial disassembly just to get at the top of the boilers and if you want to run the pump while you're there you need to faff about with the reservoir carrier balanced off to the side somewhere while you have the reservoir balanced somewhere close to it. With the Minima you just remove a few hex screws and you're in (2 at the back across the top and I think 3 on top on the cup warmer).

- The Expobar DB uses the same boiler that it uses in its HX as a service boiler meaning it has a thermosyphon running through it to feed the brew boiler. The Minima has entirely independent boilers which is better for maintenance and functionality. If you make a milk drink in the morning and then switch the service boiler off with the Expobar the water left in the service boiler (and the HX inside it) will contract triggering the auto refill -- either the HX empties at this point as water is redirected through to the service boiler OR the water in the HX simply contracts enough to allow air into the brew boiler OR lower the level in the brew boiler enough to interrupt the action of the thermosyphon....in any case when you come to use the machine later you'll find the group is cold and when you run the pump it'll take a few seconds longer than usual until water leaves the group. This doesn't happen with the Minima and even if air gets into the brew boiler it won't happen because of the position of the thermosyphon take off....for me this was enough to make me upgrade to the Minima alone. There was nothing more frustrating to me than having an E61 dual boiler that would, by design, cause the group to cool if the service boiler cooled after use -- yes you can work around it...you can just let off some water from the hot water tap after using the service boiler, triggering the refill manually and then running a bit of water through the group but it shouldn't be an issue in the first place. I suspect with the older Brewtus models the inability to operate both boilers independently meant this wasn't an issue.

- PID control of the service boiler is a nice thing to have on the Minima.

Use:

- Backflushing on a regular basis is quick an easy with the Minima with no disassembly and lubrication required of parts afterwards.

- There's more space for cups under the group

- There's more useable space around the machine over the drip tray -- it's easy to have a jug on there steaming milk and pulling an espresso hand free at the same time. With the Expobar you couldn't really do that without balancing the jug over the edge. Even the lever operation of the group could make using two cups at the same time a bit awkward.

So good Vs not so good....

Minima:

Good:

-Thermosyphon won't stall.

-PID control of steam boiler.

-Easy to clean without having to disassemble and lubricate cams.

-Commercial adjustable OPV that won't leak.

-Steel boilers that won't impart taste and are more corrosion resistant than brass.

-Replacement boilers and heating elements in one very well priced unit.

-Lots of space on the drip tray and under the group.

-Uses less water than a full E61....with the same usage the tiny drip tray of the Minima needs to be emptied just about as often as the massive drip tray of the Expobar. This is very nice to think about when you're using bottled water or remineralising your own distilled or RO water and is something to consider not just through normal use but with the weekly backflush too.

- Steaming is fast, easy, and consistent. Though I have to note it could be down to the 3 hole tip and burn wand Vs the 1 hole tip and insulated wand on the Expobar (things you can easily change) rather than the extra power as I only steam a small quantity of milk typically.

Not so good:

Err......the shape of the drip tray is a bit odd and the plastic part is a bit flimsy but I haven't spit anything yet.

The service boiler is massive so when you flush it out to fill it with fresh water (to stop minerals building up) you'll have to have a spare 2 litres of water ready...

If the heating elements somehow go you'll have to replace the boiler as well BUT compared to the Expobar you aren't looking at much more expense and you get a new boiler out of it too...

Expobar

The good:

It's a dual boiler E61 with PID.

Built like a tank.

Will intimidate your other kitchen appliances should they ever gain consciousness.

The not so good:

- Thermosyphon can easily stall under normal use conditions.

- Uses a lot of water to backflush and requires disassembly and lubrication of the cam after backflushing.

- Machine needs to be partially disassembled just to descale it properly...and then you need to faff about with a balancing act when you're checking for leaks before putting it all back together again.

- The service boiler operates on a thermostat that requires you to half disassemble the machine to adjust.

- The OPV leaks when adjusting it and I'm fairly certain it leaks continuously at low pressure settings like 6 or 7 bar.

- Reservoir is completely open (I covered the top with tinfoil easily enough).

- HX - brew boiler system means that you can end up with scale in the HX but not the brew boiler due to the different temperatures and you can't descale one without descaling the other. Meaning you have to run the pump to get descaler into the HX...and in doing so you get descaler into the brew boiler. This wasn't a problem for me as I used good water and descaled the whole thing when it just started to build up before running on Volvic and later remineralising my own DI water but if I were just running it on filtered tap water not only would the HX cause the thermosyphon to stall it would also mess up the water chemistry and eventually scale up.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Superluminal said:


> Rob I may be misreading it, but the 1st Line site says '2 years parts and labour'.
> 
> 
> Warranty limited to manufacturer's defectChoose an option2 year parts & labor
> ...


Yeah from first line it's parts and labour. Buy it direct from ACS (if it's even an option) and it'll be parts only.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

A good summary, the Minima also has a few software features lacking in the Expobar

Last Shot protection

Full dual loop PID no shared parameters

Shot timer

The potential for additional programming.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

How did I forget about LSP...

When you say potential for additional programming is that the gicar controller?

I've been doing a bit of research into wiring arduinos up with mosfets and bridge rectifiers to control AC pulse width. Was thinking of wiring one of these at the pump switch so boiler refill isn't affected and it only comes into play during a shot. The pump switch is nice and accessible so once it's all put together and tested externally it should be easy to connect to the machine and test functionally with the pump.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Yes there's a bit more code that can go into the "autofill" box. I put it in quotes because it's not a cheapie STD RL30 type unit, but one that's a lot more sophisticated. I also have a flash unit so I can flash the unit and test new firmware.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> I'd see the Minima as an incremental upgrade to the Expobar generally. There are some really nice things about the Minima but if you've bought a new Expobar I wouldn't say sell it for a loss and buy a new Minima. If I were in the position of selling the Expobar and getting a new machine at full RRP I'd go for the Bianca or V. If you bought it second hand and face losing about £100 or nothing selling it then paying a bit more for the Minima then I'd recommend it.
> 
> Design/Build:
> 
> ...


That's a brief overview!!! Honestly that's fabulous, thank you for taking the time, need time to read it through several time's and digest before making a final decision. Not worried re moving on the Expobar as I brought it from eBay, will be thinking hard for a while, as B.B. are out of stock at the moment that gives time to digest your excellent write up.

Many many thanks

***


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## Vollbart (Jan 27, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> The service boiler is massive so when you flush it out to fill it with fresh water (to stop minerals building up) you'll have to have a spare 2 litres of water ready...


Hey Rob, how often do you do this?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Vollbart said:


> Hey Rob, how often do you do this?


Depends how much steaming I've done. I draw a bit off and test with a TDS meter every now and again and will flush when it reads double what's going in, but my water only has potassium bicarb in it. If you use water with carbonates and you don't want it to scale, or you have chlorides and sulphates or things like chlorine and nitrates in the water and you're worried about corrosion you need to find out at what point your water is becoming saturated with them above a certain point and flush it whenever it's appropriate. Without a TDS meter you might find out when the refill is triggered by letting the hot water tap trickle into a jug. If the refill kicks in at 250ml for example you know that after 8 refills the water in the boiler is roughly twice as concentrated as the water going in (in a 2 litre boiler) assuming consistency.

With bicarbonates I might not have to worry for quite some time about corrosion, though I wouldn't want to be making Americanos with the water.

Surprisingly to me potassium bicarb has been shown to react with 316 steel whereas sodium bicarb hasn't, but the concentrations used in testing are probably so high it won't be an issue.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> Without a TDS meter you might find out when the refill is triggered by letting the hot water tap trickle into a jug. If the refill kicks in at 250ml for example you know that after 8 refills the water in the boiler is roughly twice as concentrated as the water going in (in a 2 litre boiler).


That's very interesting. I never thought of that. Out of curiosity, what's the relationship between concentration of minerals and the amount of water dispensed before the refil kicks in?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The steel is 316L not 316 and there is no relationship between TDS and when the autofill kicks in.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's very interesting. I never thought of that. Out of curiosity, what's the relationship between concentration of minerals and the amount of water dispensed before the refil kicks in?


Well if you just steam obviously everything in the water is left behind in the boiler. So if it contains 20mg/l carbonates and over time the boiler uses up all of the water producing steam and is completely refilled then the concentration in there will be 40mg/l, then eventually 60, 80 and so on.

As Dave said there's no relationship between tds and the refill trigger... And you can't actually read the concentration of what's in the water with a TDS meter, you need to know what the meter reads in the reservoir, and whatever it tells you will be wrong but it will be consistent.

250ml was just an example for illustration not an actual measurement.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just in case one is really interested, please note the very high concentrations of some of the acids in relation to what might be used for descaling!:

https://marketing.industrialspec.com/acton/attachment/30397/f-003a/1/-/-/-/-/316l-stainless-steel-chemical-compatibility-from-ism.pdf


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Just in case one is really interested, please note the very high concentrations of some of the acids in relation to what might be used for descaling!:
> 
> https://marketing.industrialspec.com/acton/attachment/30397/f-003a/1/-/-/-/-/316l-stainless-steel-chemical-compatibility-from-ism.pdf


Sure corrosion is extremely unlikely. The comparability chart shows Calcium chloride as a 'B' which is satisfactory to 48c and presumably not when temperatures go higher...though concentrations are just the salt on the metal? So yes, very unlikely to be an issue even when concentrations go two or three or four or 10 or 20 times higher than what you're putting into the machine.

Eventually with enough use the water will become so saturated you'll get precipitation just because of the solubility of the different things in the water. You'll end up with things forming that aren't very water soluble like calcium sulphate if your water contains calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate. You probably wouldn't be too happy to drink this water...of course a solution is to just use a kettle.

For anyone running bottled water that "doesn't scale" you will have to descale your service boiler.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> Well if you just steam obviously everything in the water is left behind in the boiler. So if it contains 20mg/l carbonates and over time the boiler uses up all of the water producing steam and is completely refilled then the concentration in there will be 40mg/l, then eventually 60, 80 and so on.
> 
> As Dave said there's no relationship between tds and the refill trigger... And you can't actually read the concentration of what's in the water with a TDS meter, you need to know what the meter reads in the reservoir, and whatever it tells you will be wrong but it will be consistent.
> 
> 250ml was just an example for illustration not an actual measurement.


Thank you Rob1, I understand it now.


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

Hi Rob

This has got me thinking. So my understanding of what you are saying is the concentration of dissolved solids in the service boiler will increase as water is used for steam, and once the water becomes saturated some solids will be deposited. So you conclude that descaling will be required, however, if you refresh the water in the service boiler on a regular basis, say once a week, then the concentration of solids is less likely to reach a point where there are deposits, thus minimising the need to descale.

So as a bottled water user I should refresh the water in the service boiler regularly. Does that make sense or am i missing something?

Thanks Tony


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> Hi Rob
> 
> This has got me thinking. So my understanding of what you are saying is the concentration of dissolved solids in the service boiler will increase as water is used for steam, and once the water becomes saturated some solids will be deposited. So you conclude that descaling will be required, however, if you refresh the water in the service boiler on a regular basis, say once a week, then the concentration of solids is less likely to reach a point where there are deposits, thus minimising the need to descale.
> 
> ...


Yes I think so. I've never really thought about scale in this way. I was remineralising my water with calcium chloride and magnesium sulphate with the Expobar which has brass/copper boiler so was concerned with chlorides especially rising prompting me to flush the boilers. With surgical steel that's much less of a concern -- maybe not even a concern at all -- but yes I should think logically the water will become supersaturated at some point and you'll get scale. How quickly this happens depends on how much you steam and the composition of water. I remember reading the langelier saturation index isn't the best thing to use to calculate scaling potential as it can't be used above 79c but I can't remember what was recommended in its place...


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## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

We all know that the ]Profitec E61 Flow Control Device already availability for purchase.

any idea if this will work on Minima? Thank you


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## gus6464 (Jan 29, 2019)

I wish ACS would comment on here on why they are letting 1st line rebrand the machine and sell it at a non-starter price in the US.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

@‎Paolo_Cortese


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

gus6464 said:


> I wish ACS would comment on here on why they are letting 1st line rebrand the machine and sell it at a non-starter price in the US.


+1


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## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

Much cheaper than Europe price. Ahahaha


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

KopiO said:


> Much cheaper than Europe price. Ahahaha


No it's not it's much more expensive


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## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> No it's not it's much more expensive


you were correct. I was wrong in calculations and blame my apps


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## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

1400Euro to my country. Just waiting someone to confirm me if this minima can be install a Profitec E61 Flow Control Device??


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## Mik3 (May 2, 2019)

Does anyone know when the Minima is likely to be re-stocked? I'm reading about a factory move which I guess is the cause of BB showing out of stock?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mik3 said:


> Does anyone know when the Minima is likely to be re-stocked? I'm reading about a factory move which I guess is the cause of BB showing out of stock?


I think the best people to ask are BB themselves.


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Still no stock at 1st Line either.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just thought I would give a little more information, I think it's always good to know what's really inside a machine and where I think a more of the money should go.

Two dual boiler machine brain boxes....one is from the Duetto, the other is from the ACS Minima.



















The minima has better PID functionality, proper dual loop, last shot protection plus a few other nice features. One box is cheap....the other is not. If you had not guessed the far more expensive box on the left is in the Minima. The problem is looking at the outside, you would never know!


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

What does "better PID functionality" mean?


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

No pictures showing on my screen just a "no entry sign", is this something I've missed on the new forum??

Ian


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Eyedee said:


> No pictures showing on my screen just a "no entry sign", is this something I've missed on the new forum??
> 
> Ian


 I'll check, might have done the links wrong...although I double checked with another browser one that was not logged into google photos or any other account. I could see the images fine on that in this thread, *can anyone else see the images I posted?*


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@tait please can you change the edit time to either 0 to disable it, or something a lot longer than 5 minutes. I have asked for this a few times. Either you think 5 minutes is fine and don't want to change it, don't know how, are too busy....Which is it, because if you tell me you won't, then I can stop wasting my time asking.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

@Tait ^^^


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I'll check, might have done the links wrong...although I double checked with another browser one that was not logged into google photos or any other account. I could see the images fine on that in this thread, *can anyone else see the images I posted?*


 As i see it, if you click on the photo in your post you can scroll right using [>] to see the next two photos. :good:

edit: meow


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Thanks Dave

Ian


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

Hi Dave,

Any chance you could shed a light on a potential problem with my Minima. Being using it for 4-5weeks. Today, when doing a back flush, I heard a quite audible noise, like a resonating high pitched whine, like rotating metal on metal. I immediately stopped the back flush. Then tried backflush again after a few seconds, similar noise, but much quieter. I left the machine idle, switched on for last few hours, now seems to be working as normal, no noise during backflush.

Any idea what part may have caused the noise, and should I be concerned?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

poolfan said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Any chance you could shed a light on a potential problem with my Minima. Being using it for 4-5weeks. Today, when doing a back flush, I heard a quite audible noise, like a resonating high pitched whine, like rotating metal on metal. I immediately stopped the back flush. Then tried backflush again after a few seconds, similar noise, but much quieter. I left the machine idle, switched on for last few hours, now seems to be working as normal, no noise during backflush.
> 
> Any idea what part may have caused the noise, and should I be concerned?


 I don't think it's a problem, it's quite common for expansion valves in vibe pump machines to vibrate like a reed in a wind instrument. Often these sounds can be cured by changing the pressure a little e.g. from 9 bar to 9.1 bar or 8.9 bar. It's a combination of things that can cause it to come and go. The expansion valve is allowing a flow to maintain a set pressure in the group, the pad and spring that does this can sometimes resonate and cause a sound. You might do this pressure adjustment if it's happening during all your shots, but if it's only happening when you backflush and at that particular flow rate through the valve....I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If you are really worried, the next time it does it, post a video of the sound and I can tell you immediately if it's the expansion valve or not. and whether you need to worry about it. I have been heavily using the Minima I have for months and months, it's on 17 hours per day and it seems a pretty bulletproof piece of kit....even the temperatures near all the electronics which are mounted low down are not high.


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I don't think it's a problem, it's quite common for expansion valves in vibe pump machines to vibrate like a reed in a wind instrument. Often these sounds can be cured by changing the pressure a little e.g. from 9 bar to 9.1 bar or 8.9 bar. It's a combination of things that can cause it to come and go. The expansion valve is allowing a flow to maintain a set pressure in the group, the pad and spring that does this can sometimes resonate and cause a sound. You might do this pressure adjustment if it's happening during all your shots, but if it's only happening when you backflush and at that particular flow rate through the valve....I wouldn't worry about it at all.
> 
> If you are really worried, the next time it does it, post a video of the sound and I can tell you immediately if it's the expansion valve or not. and whether you need to worry about it. I have been heavily using the Minima I have for months and months, it's on 17 hours per day and it seems a pretty bulletproof piece of kit....even the temperatures near all the electronics which are mounted low down are not high.


 Thanks Dave, relieved that it's likely nothing. I'll continue to monitor anyway.


----------



## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Hey all,

Is the Minima in stock anywhere? Still nada at 1st Line in the U.S.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Superluminal said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Is the Minima in stock anywhere? Still nada at 1st Line in the U.S.


 I think they may be the only supplier in the US, but I'm not sure.


----------



## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

I think so too. Is there a lack of supply in UK/Europe also?


----------



## stickyz (May 28, 2019)

Superluminal said:


> I think so too. Is there a lack of supply in UK/Europe also?


 the only German store that had it for a normal price (1399) does not have it in stock anymore.


----------



## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

FYI: Minima is now in stock at 1st-Line in the U.S...I ordered, wish me luck.

Cost was US$1900 which seems a tad higher vs what the MSRP is supposed to be? It's a pity ACS is not mandating price point, plus 1-st Line or ACS (?) changed the brand to Caffeum Perfectus in the U.S. Again...odd.

https://www.1st-line.com/buy/minima-dual-boiler-espresso-machine/


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I just realised I'm not always seeing new posts, I see a lot of them but somehow don't see around 20% of them?? Only just saw this on a random check of something else?


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Outrageous Dave!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Superluminal said:


> Outrageous Dave!


 yeah 1900 usd, it's good to see you paying more than we do for stuff...makes a change


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

True. I'm sure Brexit will make it much better for you Dave


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Superluminal said:


> True. I'm sure Brexit will make it much better for you Dave


 Don't get me started. In fact, I think the price of espresso machines could go up (but I think it will only be temporary). For a number of reasons though we do need to actually get on with a clean Brexit. Even if there is some pain, it's like physio for the UK, unpleasant to do, but necessary if you want to heal a nation. There has been some mighty vested interests in remaining and a lot of distorted information from the media.

Will it be worse for us in the short term, not sure...possibly...but it's the medicine we need.


----------



## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

please don't start the Brexit thread again


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## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Dave I was justy kidding.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jimbojohn55 said:


> please don't start the Brexit thread again


 There was a Brexit thread?


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## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

stickyz said:


> the only German store that had it for a normal price (1399) does not have it in stock anymore.


For Europe you can also try here: https://www.fixpresso.be/en/product/elcor-minima-dual-boiler
(No connection with myself whatsoever)


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BB might well ship to Europe.


----------



## stickyz (May 28, 2019)

martinierius said:


> For Europe you can also try here: https://www.fixpresso.be/en/product/elcor-minima-dual-boiler
> (No connection with myself whatsoever)


 Awesome find ! thanks.


----------



## 1st-line (Jul 26, 2019)

Hi All,

Just a few notes here....

a) At 1st-line, we are starting to re-brand some manufacturers into our own line of equipment. The reason is that over the years, we have developed brand names of espresso machines only to have competitors with deep pocket investors sway manufacturers to sell to them and ride on our hard work. Then, over time, the brand name diminishes to nothing. There are numerous examples of this phenomena that occurs in the USA. By having our own brand name, competitors can not ride off our coattails of developing a manufacturers brand name. I assure you, there are more quality machines coming with the Caffeum Perfectus brand name. And for those who do not know Latin, Caffeum Perfectus means Perfect Coffee.

b) Pricing will start to get higher in the USA. For a few reasons.... 110 volt parts on 110 volt machines are starting to cost more which usually makes our costs higher. Shipping costs are going higher. Minimum liveable wage laws for employees are increasing costs across all businesses. Everyone at 1st-line makes more than the state minimum wage. However, our wage employees are seeing increased personal costs requiring them to make higher wages. All in all, many costs are driving up prices.

All the best!
Jim


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

1st-line said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just a few notes here....
> 
> ...


 Thanks for those very helpful "few notes". May I suggest requesting advertising rights with the admins before you just join the community and then spam?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well I posted in the postie section about a profiling kit I got in the post.

View attachment 31234


ACS owners can read more about it here and I will keep that thread updated as I go with Videos and other tests,

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vesuvius/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=276&p=2519#p2519


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Well I posted in the postie section about a profiling kit I got in the post.
> 
> 
> View attachment 31234
> ...


 Is this a Needle valve that is used in the Bianca for flow profiling? Very interested if so - have just been reading up a lot about the BDB and the slayer shots they can get from that with a needle valve. Looking forward to your videos/feedback!

Can you comment on the cost?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Cooffe said:


> Is this a Needle valve that is used in the Bianca for flow profiling? Very interested if so - have just been reading up a lot about the BDB and the slayer shots they can get from that with a needle valve. Looking forward to your videos/feedback!
> 
> Can you comment on the cost?


 No idea...never asked?


----------



## Superluminal (Feb 21, 2019)

Cooffe said:


> Thanks for those very helpful "few notes". May I suggest requesting advertising rights with the admins before you just join the community and then spam?


 I think you'll find Jim is replying to specific questions on this thread regarding why at 1st Line the Minima is more in the U.S. than it is in Europe and why they changed the name from ACS.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Can someone let me know why this thread is hidden in "Grinders, machines and accessories'.

It's not a grinder (oh! and there is already a grinder section!!) and it's not an accessory. It's a coffee machine and there's a section for Coffee machines.

A bit of a rant but I have to do a search to find it each time.

Why not stick it in with the Vesuvius and head it ACS, or is that too obvious?


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

nicholasj said:


> Can someone let me know why this thread is hidden in "Grinders, machines and accessories'. It's not a grinder (oh! and there is already a grinder section!!) and it's not an accessory. It's a coffee machine and there's a section for Coffee machines.
> 
> A bit of a rant but I have to do a search to find it each time.
> 
> Why not stick it in with the Vesuvius and head it ACS, or is that too obvious?


Don't think there was a Vesuvius section when this thread was created (I could be wrong, it's a bit chicken & egg in my memory) & besides, it's not a V.Good idea renaming that section to ACS though as the other machine sections aren't model specific.


----------



## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Don't think there was a Vesuvius section when this thread was created (I could be wrong, it's a bit chicken & egg in my memory) & besides, it's not a V.Good idea renaming that section to ACS though as the other machine sections aren't model specific.


 Cheers, just think it belongs in the "coffee machines" section somewhere and not in the scrap yard as it is now......Yes, I've got one! ??. But what on earth is it doing here?

Admin can decide, but where's the logic as it is now?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

@DavecUK how did your experiments go with the paddle on the V and the Minima?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> @DavecUK how did your experiments go with the paddle on the V and the Minima?


 I put everything on my review site + Vids and I am updating it as I test different machines. The link is in my signature (use a magnifying lass though). Your best bet is to keep an eye on my youtube channel and the review site.


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> @DavecUK how did your experiments go with the paddle on the V and the Minima?


 I tried asking Bella Barista if they stock the kit but to no avail. Never got a response  would love to get one though. Might ask Lelia direct and see if they would sell one to me.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Cooffe said:


> I tried asking Bella Barista if they stock the kit but to no avail. Never got a response  would love to get one though. Might ask Lelia direct and see if they would sell one to me.


 There was a few people interested when this and the Profitec one were mentioned .. An approach with a few to order direct might work .I would be interested


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Nicknak said:


> There was a few people interested when this and the Profitec one were mentioned .. An approach with a few to order direct might work .I would be interested


 Yeah I think we'd need at least 5 to make it viable though... might find a contact in Lelit and see if I can get in touch...


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nicknak said:


> There was a few people interested when this and the Profitec one were mentioned .. An approach with a few to order direct might work .I would be interested


 No it won't work, Lelit will be too busy to deal with individuals, they are a large enough company that they only deal with retailers and are not resourced to deal directly, plus the postage costs/hassle. I imagine they will refer you back to Bella Barista.* It's Bella Barista where you would do best to get together and ask them to service a bulk order. They can then order however many kits are required (if they are minded to do so).*

I realise I didn't get my kit from BB and got it direct but that was a special case and I also have absolutely no idea what the retail cost for such a kit would be. I wanted it to do some testing and experiments for fun on other machines. I explained that to Lelit. So although a kit is an orderable accessory item my interest was in how well it worked on other machines and types of machines, plus how to properly maintain it and any improvements to it.

In the same way for people with a Minima or other machines, who want to get the same matching wood kit as me (cos it matches the paddle), first they should go through BB and if BB don't want to sell it, then I *might *be persuaded to facilitate a bulk purchase from the Italian wholesaler via my contacts. It would depend on the ballache level to me to do such a thing. I also don't know if the little E61 lever knob is available in walnut from that supplier, I don't remember seeing it in the wholesale catalogue.

Or alternatively, get one of the little woodworker businesses on here to make you bits in the right shade of Walnut.


----------



## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> No it won't work, Lelit will be too busy to deal with individuals, they are a large enough company that they only deal with retailers and are not resourced to deal directly, plus the postage costs/hassle. I imagine they will refer you back to Bella Barista.* It's Bella Barista where you would do best to get together and ask them to service a bulk order. They can then order however many kits are required (if they are minded to do so).*
> 
> I realise I didn't get my kit from BB and got it direct but that was a special case and I also have absolutely no idea what the retail cost for such a kit would be. I wanted it to do some testing and experiments for fun on other machines. I explained that to Lelit. So although a kit is an orderable accessory item my interest was in how well it worked on other machines and types of machines, plus how to properly maintain it and any improvements to it.
> 
> ...


 That is very nice of you David . Could we just say we were going to group review them ?


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

@1st-line sorry to bring you into this thread but I can see that you supply the Bianca profiling kit. Would you be interested in shipping some out to the UK/getting us in touch with your supplier if we were to arrange a group buy?


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

As Dave said, I think BB is your best bet in the UK. 1st-line are pretty clear they don't do international shipments. Their CC system can't even take payments from outside of the US. https://www.1st-line.com/terms-warranty-policies/international-orders/

I tried to get hold of a Spaz part and I ended up getting a family member to order it and send it over (lives in the US)


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nicknak said:


> That is very nice of you David . Could we just say we were going to group review them ?


 What is very nice of me?

Group review what?

Are you considering a flow control valve?


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> What is very nice of me?
> 
> Group review what?
> 
> Are you considering a flow control valve?


 Yes it was in my post that you quoted ..


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> What is very nice of me?
> 
> Group review what?
> 
> Are you considering a flow control valve?


 I think NickNak was referring to your offer:

"then I might be persuaded to facilitate a bulk purchase from the Italian wholesaler via my contacts."

And then everyone who obtained the goods could review their findings?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nicknak said:


> Yes it was in my post that you quoted ..


 I'm completely not understanding what you mean..perhaps I am missing something...no matter.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I



DavecUK said:


> I'm completely not understanding what you mean..perhaps I am missing something...no matter.


 In your post 148 after my brief conversation with @Cooffe you quoted my post in which I said "I would be interested . The thank you was for the quote from the same post where you said I might be convinced to contact my supplier . @MildredM has your comment in full above . The group review again as Mildred supposed above that those that might be interested could review them on their machines . I am confused by your confusion ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Right, I guess it's because I am not concentrating on the forum as much as I once was and only skim at posts (when I notice anything interesting) at the moment, busy with other projects.


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

HELP! (Apologies if this isn't the best place to ask....)

I've had my minima for several months without any issues, however today a problem has occured.

In the middle of pouring a shot, about 20secs in, the flow stopped. The pump noise carried on but the pressure gauge had dropped to zero. The digital display isn't showing any faults.

I've tried turning on and off and the fault remains. Pump noise comes on but no pressure builds and no water comes out... so no more coffee for now 

Any ideas or best to call ACS (bought direct)?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

More information to diagnose what is probably a simple problem. So not second guess what's in my mind when answering the questions...it's all diagnostics for quite a number of possible faults and will let me narrow it down to the problem. There is an ACS users forum, next time you might be better off posting there. It will benefits others who get the same problem. If the owners forum doesn't get used, then eventually it will cease to exist. While you are an owner, it benefits you personally for that forum to exist and you may wish to post about the problem and resolution there, to help others in the future. It also might be a source of parts, group buys, programming (reflashes/updates) and other things in the future. You can cut and paste from here if you want.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vesuvius/

1. Video with sound please (best quality you can and place it unlisted on youtube with a link for us here), film inside the water tank, specifically the return tube (shorter tube) when turning the brew switch on, then video the group. I want to hear the pump, I want to see what's coming out of the return tube...I want to see if anything at all is coming from the group.

2. Is the water level in the tank going down while the pump runs (I probably won't be able to tell from your video), you need to look as this is very important

3. What water do you use

4. Have you noticed dripping from under the machine when the pump runs


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks. I've taken a quick video and put in the right forum and will answer all those questions in a couple of hours. Thanks Dave!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Espresso underground now stock the paddle kit.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> Espresso underground now stock the paddle kit.


 Thanks for letting us know . May also be of interest to @Cooffe


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Probably not worth trying a group buy, though could be worth emailing to ask for a discount if they remove the group pressure gauge from the package to be sold separately.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> Probably not worth trying a group buy, though could be worth emailing to ask for a discount if they remove the group pressure gauge from the package to be sold separately.


 Yes .. the group buy was mainly when the thought was to get BB to order some , or a direct contact with Letit .. I would likely go with the gauge .. Thanks again .


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> There is an ACS users forum, next time you might be better off posting there. It will benefits others who get the same problem. If the owners forum doesn't get used, then eventually it will cease to exist. While you are an owner, it benefits you personally for that forum to exist and you may wish to post about the problem and resolution there, to help others in the future. It also might be a source of parts, group buys, programming (reflashes/updates) and other things in the future.


 Is it not possible to join outside if Tapatalk? I tried to join though Tapatalk and all it want me to do is buy gold points and subscribe. Cheers


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Well I ordered it and their checkout process is a bit of a pain. Under county you get options that aren't counties and you have to actually select the free shipping option if that's what you want otherwise the order won't go through with an error message about updated shipping prices.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> Is it not possible to join outside if Tapatalk? I tried to join though Tapatalk and all it want me to do is buy gold points and subscribe. Cheers


 Feck knows, just go to the forum and create an account? It's a free forum, no sub necessary, there is all this gold points crap that I can't turn off, but I don't want anyone buying anything, There is unwanted advertising on there (not my doing) so that should be more than enough for whoever provides the free platform. There are people who join all the time, no one has ever said they had to pay? It's a button says join top right. The forum is there free and for all....run out of the goodness of my heart. I use it because it's focussed, searchable and the information people will need is easily available.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Feck knows, just go to the forum and create an account? It's a free forum, no sub necessary, there is all this gold points crap that I can't turn off, but I don't want anyone buying anything, There is unwanted advertising on there (not my doing) so that should be more than enough for whoever provides the free platform. There are people who join all the time, no one has ever said they had to pay? It's a button says join top right. The forum is there free and for all....run out of the goodness of my heart. I use it because it's focussed, searchable and the information people will need is easily available.
> 
> View attachment 32367


 I think it's tapatalk that he's being asked to pay for not the forum. I deleted that app long ago.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Rob1 said:


> I think it's tapatalk that he's being asked to pay for not the forum. I deleted that app long ago.


Ah yeah. Tapatalk is great at asking if you want to upgrade to premium all the time while showing annoying ads in the feed.
I succumbed in the end when they had one of their cut price offers running (some offers are better value than others. Think I plumped for something like 90% off).


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

It is Tapatalk @DaveC I'm talking about, apologies if it appeared otherwise.

I'll have to see what I'm missing or not doing, as I have the app and signed into Tapatalk, I then see the ACS Owners and coffee lovers forum.......... but that's about it. I'll try again.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> It is Tapatalk @DaveC I'm talking about, apologies if it appeared otherwise.
> 
> I'll have to see what I'm missing or not doing, as I have the app and signed into Tapatalk, I then see the ACS Owners and coffee lovers forum.......... but that's about it. I'll try again.


 I have only one thing to say to Tapatalk...warning adults only.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

? @DaveC I've deleted Tapatalk.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

For anyone not wanting the full kit I linked to above you can also purchase it without the pressure gauge or paddle from here: https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/lelit.html

At the time of posting though you are unlikely to make any saving after postage and having a paddle made to fit.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> For anyone not wanting the full kit I linked to above you can also purchase it without the pressure gauge or paddle from here: https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/en/lelit.html
> 
> At the time of posting though you are unlikely to make any saving after postage and having a paddle made to fit.


 Have you got yours yet ?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Nicknak said:


> Have you got yours yet ?


 Not yet was posted on Wednesday so I'm hoping it'll arrive early this week.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I'm going to adjust my Minima pressure to 9 bar but for some odd reason I've got nothing that fits the six screws properly and I don't want to ruin the heads. Can anyone let me know the hex size or whatever to use so I can go to the hardware shop.

Also the spanner size for the pressure adjustment? I think 12mm, but not sure. Cheers.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

@nicholasj I think it's an 8mm Allen key screw - are you using Hex?


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

@Cooffe Ah! No, I just loosely tested hex. Didn't think it looked like Allen but in that case I should be okay as I have a set.

I'm going to adjust up from 8 bar to 9 bar.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Nope, just checked and I have a few small Allen keys but none fit!


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

nicholasj said:


> Nope, just checked and I have a few small Allen keys but none fit!


 Hmm I'll have a look when I'm home tonight - I have taken the 6 bolts off the top of mine before when I cleaned it and had a look at the internals. I swear I used my Allen key set...


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Tip get tools before hand! if your unsure ask the davec for what you actually need, making this a easier task to do.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

This video may also help:


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Hi, @DaveC, are you able to enlighten me please on required tools please? Cheers.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The few items below or similar will give you most of what you need for machine adjustments, maintenance repairs (and other stuff around the house). The Amtech wrenches all come with plastic jaw protectors and will do for the E61 group, steam fittings etc... The combination spanner set will fit most nuts and the kit gives you all the bits you will ever need for espresso machine maintenance and Niche grinder burr removal. Give yourself an early Christmas present treat. The only thing is a flexible drive shaft, you can probably get one on ebay for a few quid, can make some really difficult screws and nuts gettable.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-151-piece-Screwdriver-Durable-Sandblasted/dp/B01MD2GSUV/ref=pd_sbs_60_12?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01MD2GSUV&pd_rd_r=27cf81fc-ab81-449e-87cb-40ceab9a9efd&pd_rd_w=2JV9w&pd_rd_wg=5NHXd&pf_rd_p=cc188cba-1892-42b3-956f-6c67d0ab7a00&pf_rd_r=J53DC75F9JD6V5WC92R6&psc=1&refRID=J53DC75F9JD6V5WC92R6

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-K0400-Combination-Spanner-11-Piece/dp/B008G0HWX4/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=amtech+spanner+set&qid=1570815744&s=diy&sr=1-1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-Adjustable-Pipe-Wrench-Am-Tech/dp/B0186JUOA2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=amtech+adjustable+pipe+wrench&qid=1570815810&s=diy&sr=1-3









Note for full disclosure I do not own shares in or have any business interest or connection of any kind with the Amazon group of companies. Nor do I favour them over any other shitty purveyors of online goods. As always you buy on your own risk and should always ask other illuminati the forum for advice. Please ask Nikko who always has an opinion opposite to mine. The links are provided for your absolute convenience and are not affiliate links. Amazon is not a registered charity, although sometimes their tax arrangements make me wonder. Should the said items leak, rust or in any other way fail I have not tested or used said items and cannot vouch for their quality.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Wow! @DaveC, thank you for this.....I'll be onto online shopping tomorrow!

cheers indeed!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Ideal Xmas pressie for Prosumer machine owners ?


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

@nicholasj it is a 2.5mm Allen key


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Great @Cooffe. Thank you....get one tomorrow, with the other tools. Cheers


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

nicholasj said:


> Great @Cooffe. Thank you....get one tomorrow, with the other tools. Cheers


There'll be one in that bit set Dave posted a pic of.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Well I got the tool and adjusted the pressure to a tad over 9 bar. Now the question is.....will I notice the difference from when it was just under 8 bar? ?

I'll find out in the morning!!


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Not yet was posted on Wednesday so I'm hoping it'll arrive early this week.


 Any news yet on it's arrival? We're all eager here to see how it goes!


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

No. Turns out the shipping notification I received last week was some kind of error. I contacted Peter at espresso underground to ask for a tracking number as it was approaching the end of the expected delivery time and he told he me had ordered it from Lelit and was expecting it next week (hopefully early next week). I've waited the best part of a year to add a paddle to the group or do some other pressure/flow profiling mod so I can stand to wait another couple of weeks.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> No. Turns out the shipping notification I received last week was some kind of error. I contacted Peter at espresso underground to ask for a tracking number as it was approaching the end of the expected delivery time and he told he me had ordered it from Lelit and was expecting it next week (hopefully early next week). I've waited the best part of a year to add a paddle to the group or do some other pressure/flow profiling mod so I can stand to wait another couple of weeks.


 Fair enough. Unfortunate that it was a clerical error though as that would have been fairly quick turnaround time


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Should also update this to say Bella Barista now stock the profitec. I took a look at whole latte love's page and saw somebody fitted it to an expobar successfully so this probably fits multiple machines too.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> Should also update this to say Bella Barista now stock the profitec. I took a look at whole latte love's page and saw somebody fitted it to an expobar successfully so this probably fits multiple machines too.


 Thanks that might suit my Pro 700 better ... cheers


----------



## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> Should also update this to say Bella Barista now stock the profitec. I took a look at whole latte love's page and saw somebody fitted it to an expobar successfully so this probably fits multiple machines too.


 Just ordered the Profitec one cheers Rob


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Hi @DaveC, I was just returning to further adjust the pressure as it was still below 9bar. Just wondering as when adjusted to 9bar the gauge rises to 9 and hovers there, but then if I leave the pump on for a few more second rises further to 11bar! 
The PID is off and I'm using a blind basket. What should I adjust to please?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> Hi @DaveC, I was just returning to further adjust the pressure as it was still below 9bar. Just wondering as when adjusted to 9bar the gauge rises to 9 and hovers there, but then if I leave the pump on for a few more second rises further to 11bar!
> The PID is off and I'm using a blind basket. What should I adjust to please?


 Is the boiler hot and you just turned the heating elements off, whacked in a blind filter and tested it?


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

@DaveC. The boiler has been off heating for about three or four hours. I took a brief video but still too large a file for here.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> @DaveC. The boiler has been off heating for about three or four hours. I took a brief video but still too large a file for here.


 Put on youtube.

Most water expansion occurs below 50 or 60 degrees, if the incoming water is colder than the brew boiler which might well have residual heat e.g. 50C after 3 or 4 hours, you will still get expansion. It's the only thing I can think is causing it. Otherwise don't know...seems to be counter to all known laws and reason has got me beat cos there are no preinfusion chambers? Perhaps the backflush disk leaks a bit and then seals and then you get full pressure, try with a metal blind filter??


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

@DaveC it's on YouTube under "Minima pressure adjustment " I can delete it after.

it seems to have occurred when the pressure was adjusted to about 9.5. When I reduced this to 9.0 it didn't go up. But it did happen a few times. Cheers


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

@DaveC


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

what was the temperature f the brew boiler?

what was in the portafilter, rubber disk or metal blind filter?


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> what was the temperature f the brew boiler?
> 
> what was in the portafilter, rubber disk or metal blind filter?


 It was a newly acquired metal blind filter. But I can't be sure of the brew boiler temp as I didn't look before turning off the PID. But it had probably been off for about two to two a half hours.
I can check again when it's been off for much longer. Did you think it odd? Cheers.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

As explained before, it depends what the temperature of the brew boiler was and whether OFF is showing in the PID display one you know the temperature? Best time to do it is first thing in the morning with a cold machine.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Okay thank you @DaveC, I'll go again when it's all at room temp. Cheers.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

@DaveC, tried it again when everything cold and stayed steady at 9bar. So, not sure what it was but seems okay now, cheers.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Received half my order today. No idea if I'm going to receive the other half or not yet as I've just sent an email off to Peter at Espresso Underground asking where the rest of my order is so hopefully I'll know more tomorrow.

The paddle, grub screw, and pressure gauge parts are all missing so I only have the needle valve itself and parts for that. The extras were listed on the website and are clearly listed on the invoice too. Hopefully it can be resolved without resorting to Paypal buyer protection.

EDIT:

Got an email back at 20:30 telling me the missing parts have been ordered (relating to paddle and grub screw, no mention of pressure gauge).


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I adjusted the pressure to 9 bar a month ago and it's been constant since. But this morning the pressure has settled back to where it previously was at 7.5 bar. I put in a blank metal back flush disc and it remains at 7.5 bar! Peculiar, not sure. 
I'll see what happens over the next few days.


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

Looking for some advice here as my Minima has developed a slight leak. It's occurring on steam line, immediately after the hex nut situated against the vertical face of machine (See pictures 0008 & 0009 attached, the chrome face has mirror finish so confusing seeing everythin in double - leak is at machine side of t-piece that contains steam wand). I can see it's green coloured, so from copper internal piping presumably. I found it as I noted damage to the chrome finish of drip tray underneath (picture 0007), then investigating. Seems leak only appears after cool down of machine, not there when hot, so took me longer to spot that it otherwise would. Machine has used only RO water from new, no other problems to date.

Can anyone please advise how to tighten this to eliminate leak. I'm based in Ireland, so want to avoid return to UK unless absolutely necessary due to courier costs so ideally a DIY fix if not too involved is preferred.

In relation to the drip tray, can the finish be restored or is it permanently damaged?

Thanks!!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Another fault for @DaveC unless @Hasi has also experienced this


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

I had issues where my steam wand wasn't properly tightened up, and showed itself as a few bubbles. My issue was whenever it was heated though, not when it was cooling down.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I had a similar problem almost from new, I took off the steam wand and removed the complete tap.

I taped the threads with plenty PTFE tape and rebuilt the whole thing. Sorted, make sure you use enough tape to ensure a seal.

Ian


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Looks like it just needs tightening or a bit of ptfe as above. Did you buy from Bella Barista? I would have thought they'd check for things like this...

On another matter, you just use pure RO water? Did you flush the boilers before use? There looks to be dry residue there. Again I thought BB flushed the boilers of their machines before sale but maybe I'm mistaken.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Drip tray is polished stainless steel, not chromed. Surprised at the tarnishing especially as it looks slightly green....RO doesn't normally leave any sign. Mineral content in a service boiler can rise if the water isn't partially exchanged every so often...but again if it's pure RO water, shouldn't be an issue. I am totally confused by the deposits. Unless the mineral content (slat content) got so concentrated and was left for a long time, it shouldn't have damaged the stainless. be careful when cleaning it not to scratch the finish, try a limescale removing cleaner first and let it sit for a minute or so before gently wiping with a sponge.

How old is the machine, how long has this been going on, it looks like it's been like this for some time?

As for the leak, good advice from above., don't forget the nut nearest the panel has to be turned anticlockwise against the valve to tighten the connection (try that first). Be careful when supporting the front of the valve body when tightening so you don't mark it. and then the nut behind the panel secures the valve to the front panel).


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

Rob1 said:


> Looks like it just needs tightening or a bit of ptfe as above. Did you buy from Bella Barista? I would have thought they'd check for things like this...
> 
> On another matter, you just use pure RO water? Did you flush the boilers before use? There looks to be dry residue there. Again I thought BB flushed the boilers of their machines before sale but maybe I'm mistaken.


 Hi, yes, purchased from BB, ~May, so 6montsh old.

I did flush out the boilers a good deal before 1st use and obviosuly turned over the boilers since, have drained the steam boiler a couple of time to completely refresh contents to avoids any residue build-up, even though unliekly as RO water being used.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'll ask a few more questions, hopefully you can answer my other questions. I do remember now that you purchased the machine mid April this year.

What RO system are you using, how old is it and do you mix RO with tap water or anything e.g. water formulation sachets etc..)...?

where in the country are you. That colour indicates that possibly not all is right with the RO system, ?

have you TDS tested the RO water?

The reason these questions matter is because if there is something going on with the water than you are unaware of (or something you have not mentioned), then you may get more problems. They are stainless steel waters, so anything green is not coming from them but from something dissolved in the water..


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Drip tray is polished stainless steel, not chromed. Surprised at the tarnishing especially as it looks slightly green....RO doesn't normally leave any sign. Mineral content in a service boiler can rise if the water isn't partially exchanged every so often...but again if it's pure RO water, shouldn't be an issue. I am totally confused by the deposits. Unless the mineral content (slat content) got so concentrated and was left for a long time, it shouldn't have damaged the stainless. be careful when cleaning it not to scratch the finish, try a limescale removing cleaner first and let it sit for a minute or so before gently wiping with a sponge.
> 
> How old is the machine, how long has this been going on, it looks like it's been like this for some time?
> 
> As for the leak, good advice from above., don't forget the nut nearest the panel has to be turned anticlockwise against the valve to tighten the connection (try that first). Be careful when supporting the front of the valve body when tightening so you don't mark it. and then the nut behind the panel secures the valve to the front panel).


 Hi, tks for tips on cleaning, will try. Machine 6montsh old, purchased from BB. Not sure how long being going on, as though the stain on tray was caused accidentally by someone cleaning up in vicinity, not machine related.

I'll try and tighten up tomorrow, tks!


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## poolfan (May 9, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I'll ask a few more questions, hopefully you can answer my other questions. I do remember now that you purchased the machine mid April this year.
> 
> What RO system are you using, how old is it and do you mix RO with tap water or anything e.g. water formulation sachets etc..)...?
> 
> ...


 I've a softener feeding house, spur feeding an Aquaphor RO unit. Pre-filters changed out in June, after ~2years, RO membranes unchanged. RO system is 2years old.

RO water unmixed to machine reservoir. I'm based in Meath, Ireland, local council water summary attached. I haven't ant TDS results on my water.

View attachment water-quality-summary-2019.pdf


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Recommend you test the TDS of the RO unit, tester is about £15 from ebay. RO unit TDS should be regularly tested.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

You can get cheapo TDS meters from amazon. I have the copy "TDS-3" which is a copy of the "HM TDS-3" which has two different listings on amazon, one about £16 and the other about £17 (no idea why). For my purposes the copy is good enough; I check distilled water to make sure it reads 0 and also use it to check for consistency of remineralised water so I don't care what the numbers are I just care that they are consistent. If I were to buy another though I'd get the real thing.


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Finally convinced myself to stump up the cash for a Minima to upgrade from a Piccino but Bellabarista say they may not be restocking it as the Mara X is taking over sales. Coffeeitalia say they have stock at £1250.... now to work out whether it's worth an extra £300 over the Mara X.....


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

You won't get any support from coffeeitalia, you may as well just buy straight from the factory.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Do not get from them, wait and buy from BB


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## Squidgyblack (Nov 18, 2019)

petebetros said:


> Finally convinced myself to stump up the cash for a Minima to upgrade from a Piccino but Bellabarista say they may not be restocking it as the Mara X is taking over sales. Coffeeitalia say they have stock at £1250.... now to work out whether it's worth an extra £300 over the Mara X.....


 It depends if you're willing to take on the risk that if anything goes wrong there'll be no support from them as they're just box shippers, whereas with the likes of BB they've got fairly decent customer service.

Personally on a purchase like that I'd be willing to pay the extra for the peace of mind but YMMV and all that....


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