# Speciality starter kit - brew weapons of choice?



## Ivanox (Jul 8, 2017)

I'm pulling together a coffee starter kit but curious to know what equipment got you into Speciality coffee and what you would like? Noob to Pro to Boss man level?


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

For transparency - Ivan is in touch regarding advertising packages


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hello Ivanox









Do you mean specifically, or generally such as cups, pitchers, thermometer, tamper, scales, cleaner, knock box, and so forth?

Edit to say, ignore me. I patently didn't read the title of the thread properly! Silly me!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

To get you into making your own coffee, equipment has to be easy to use & produce a decent cup in a realistic timeframe. But really, you need to emphasise that the person makes the cup, with the equipment...rather than the equipment making the cup.

Melitta cone (1 hole)

White filter papers

Scales that read to 0.1g & take a couple of kg.

Grinder.

If you're supplying the gear & the coffee it's not hard to suggest a repeatable recipe (not just a brew ratio) for both.


----------



## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

I reckon Ivan needs to get a pair of boots a shovel a pick, Hardhat and a torch, cause he has some mining to do


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MildredM said:


> Hello Ivanox
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Initial post did suggest brewed options, prior to editing. I think that, by the time you have decided to invest in a machine, & associated necessities, you're already 'into' coffee


----------



## Ivanox (Jul 8, 2017)

Should've probably been clearer, I'm pulling together home starter kits to get people into speciality coffee so I'm thinking of the best combination of equipment with brew methods available that would appeal to the masses. I got into speciality coffee with the humble cafetiere and a hand burr grinder, but I don't know if a clever/V60/Kalita etc makes for a more exciting kit? or even go more premium with an Aeropress and electric grinder? Noted on the Melitta and scales!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cafetiere - too much chance of silt in the brew, high st/supermarket recipes, that folk might get away with using commodity coffee, cannot result in a decent cup. A clear & effective recipe will help, but will sound like madness to anyone not into coffee already.

V60 - needs a pouring kettle.

Kalita Wave - Great, meets same ease of use as Melitta, but... you can't pick up filter papers at the supermarket.

Electric grinder is a great idea, but ~£100 starting price is, perhaps, a turn off?

Aeropress is a different brewer, easy clean up, but no more "premium" than anything else. No difference in grinder requirement.

Want to get people through the door & buying coffee, open to the possibilities, how about vac packed, pre-portioned, pre-ground supplied with a recipe (that you have already thoroughly tested) card?


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

as starter kit I'd look at CCD + porlex + scales + filters + beans + a booklet to explain everything, that would be cheap and very hard to screw up.

plenty of tasty to be had


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> as starter kit I'd look at CCD + porlex + scales + filters + beans + a booklet to explain everything, that would be cheap and very hard to screw up.
> 
> plenty of tasty to be had


How long did it take you to grind a dose (30g) for a full CCD with a Porlex?


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I started with Chemex..then the Gear Acquisition Syndrome kicked in


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> How long did it take you to grind a dose (30g) for a full CCD with a Porlex?


granted it's not quick but a 16g dose for a cup is fine, we're talking entry level stuff here...


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> granted it's not quick but a 16g dose for a cup is fine, we're talking entry level stuff here...


2mins of grinding for a single mug is the kind of thing we're already doing, because we are already hooked & have already had tasty (& suffered a good few cases of nasty along the way)...friends & family are happy to reap the benefits & share in the result of that labour, but I don't see it kick-starting a lot of interest.

If it's a starter kit, to ignite interest, then maybe it could be easier & make bigger, sharable brews?


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

yes that's a fair point, ease of use certainly a factor, the easier the more likely there is for reuse.

I guess it depends what angle you're coming at it from, there will be a segment of the market who will just want the "cheapest" entry point to give it a try.

ease of use is going to increase the cost.

maybe having a few options could be the answer.


----------



## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

I thinks an aeropress and hand grinder is a good idea, there's some different ways to brew with an aeropress so allows for some wiggle room with experimentation and provides a very clean cup of coffee.

Hand grinder just for ease of use and price, perhaps a porlex? A decent set of 0.1g scales and a good size cup is also important.

This combination allows people to play around with brew times and such without giving them much room for error if they did completely mess up. A recipe booklet sounds good, maybe some instructions on different brew methods (regular aeropress, inverted) as well as some general time guides. A thermometer could be a good idea too.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rakesh said:


> I thinks an aeropress and hand grinder is a good idea, there's some different ways to brew with an aeropress so allows for some wiggle room with experimentation and provides a very clean cup of coffee.
> 
> Hand grinder just for ease of use and price, perhaps a porlex? A decent set of 0.1g scales and a good size cup is also important.
> 
> This combination allows people to play around with brew times and such without giving them much room for error if they did completely mess up. A recipe booklet sounds good, maybe some instructions on different brew methods (regular aeropress, inverted) as well as some general time guides. A thermometer could be a good idea too.


Different ways to brew & playing around with brew times seems to increase room for error?


----------



## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Different ways to brew & playing around with brew times seems to increase room for error?


Yeah I understand I just meant that if they do want to experiment there's a smaller chance they'll be undrinkable cups than with a machine. Just an idea though.


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I would go for a brewer which maximises the chance of producing something good regardless of how much variance there is in your technique.

better to have something that allows larger margins of error when you're learning


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> I would go for a brewer which maximises the chance of producing something good regardless of how much variance there is in your technique.
> 
> better to have something that allows larger margins of error when you're learning


Indeed, but what would that brewer be & why? If you're selling it as a starter kit, the method should be simple & few enough steps to just leave a couple of % variance in weights as the margins.

When you are making coffee, the variability in the result is very closely related to the variability in the inputs (coffee & water weights).


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

This looks like it might have potential, will be getting one next week & trying it out...

https://www.oxo.com/products/beverage/tea-coffee/pour-over-coffee-maker-with-water-tank


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> This looks like it might have potential, will be getting one next week & trying it out...
> 
> https://www.oxo.com/products/beverage/tea-coffee/pour-over-coffee-maker-with-water-tank


that looks very interesting, think I'll have to order 1 as well. I've been playing around with trying to make a distributor for the V60 but it's a bit painful.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg (Jul 23, 2015)

MWJB said:


> This looks like it might have potential, will be getting one next week & trying it out...
> 
> https://www.oxo.com/products/beverage/tea-coffee/pour-over-coffee-maker-with-water-tank


Where from? $15.99 makes that an affordable experiment...


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Where from? $15.99 makes that an affordable experiment...


£20 including postage from Lakeland

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/72443/OXO-Good-Grips-Pour-Over-Drip-Filter-Coffee-Maker-11180100UK


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I could only find it on lakeland

edit: oops too slow


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> £20 including postage from Lakeland
> 
> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/72443/OXO-Good-Grips-Pour-Over-Drip-Filter-Coffee-Maker-11180100UK


 @MWJB mine just arrived, going to go and have a few test runs with it, looking at the flow rate without coffee are you grinding similar to V60s?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> @MWJB mine just arrived, going to go and have a few test runs with it, looking at the flow rate without coffee are you grinding similar to V60s?


Haven't get mine yet.

Flow rate without coffee? Won't it be a tad weak?  What I intended to do was weigh the water into the tank (rather than use the markings), then watch until it all drained from the tank, lift the tank off & time until the liquid disappeared from above the bed (~3min with a 30s bloom for 13.5 to 225g), leave another 40sec.


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Flow rate without coffee? Won't it be a tad weak?


yes it will!









you'll see what I mean when you get it, the holes in both the tank and bottom of the brewer constrain flow rate, just checked and 255g takes about 2m20s without a filter. The flow rate naturally slows as the tank empties however the brew never empties even as this happens.



MWJB said:


> What I intended to do was weigh the water into the tank (rather than use the markings), then watch until it all drained from the tank, lift the tank off & time until the liquid disappeared from above the bed (~3min with a 30s bloom for 13.5 to 225g), leave another 40sec.


I did just this for my 1st try, the bed was pitted, I think I might try to bloom without the tank 1st, then add it on for the remainder.

also think I'll try to cut down some CCD filters and use those, the supplied filters seem to have a very wide weave, no doubt that's needed given the flow rate but will be interested to see what the difference is like.

V60 grind is almost right, maybe a tad coarser


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> yes it will!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aha, I see, thanks 

I was hoping blooming via the tank would be viable, just to cut out a stage & keeping to use of a regular kettle.


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

it is viable, I've just tried blooming seperately and didn't really stop the pitting so don't think much point.

works pretty well just dumping the entire 225g into the tank in 1 go, lovely clear brew, much better than my amatuer hands can manage with a v60


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

I think Workshop have already put some pretty good bundles together:

For one - aeropress, beans and porlex £70

For two - Wilfa Svart, scales, glass jug, V60 and beans - bargain £125

For more than two- Wilfa Svart, moccamaster, scales, beans - £240

Personally, I've done route one and two but not through buying bundles - just getting the different bits as I went along. I'd have saved money with the bundles and I think Workshop offer good deals and service

https://workshopcoffee.com/collections/hardware?filter=Brew%20Bundles


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> it is viable, I've just tried blooming seperately and didn't really stop the pitting so don't think much point.
> 
> works pretty well just dumping the entire 225g into the tank in 1 go, lovely clear brew, much better than my amatuer hands can manage with a v60


Had few brews, blooming via the tank for 90s then all (normal kettle) in seems to be working OK, I need to go quite a bit finer than for my V60 recipe, I'm about as fine as I can go for 13-15g brew. A pain that Filtropa papers don't fit, Melitta browns do, might get away with a Kalita 101 white paper, we'll see. Not yet seeing any big plus over the Brewista but more brews may show something.


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

only had chance to make a few brews with it so far, did try to bloom via tank which seemed fine, been away for the weekend, will get back to it next week, would be good to test more brews out to form an opinion.

need to take a look at the filter papers, would be nice to not have to have so many variations in the cupboard!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> only had chance to make a few brews with it so far, did try to bloom via tank which seemed fine, been away for the weekend, will get back to it next week, would be good to test more brews out to form an opinion.
> 
> need to take a look at the filter papers, would be nice to not have to have so many variations in the cupboard!


Had a couple of brew bloomed via the tank seriously drop in EY, so now blooming direct to the bed, with a stir & shaking the brewer after the last water drains from the tank (last brew was a good EY but tasted uneven)...seems to be defeating the point of having the extra components. Turning in to more input than a normal Melitta.


----------



## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Had few brews, blooming via the tank for 90s then all (normal kettle) in seems to be working OK, I need to go quite a bit finer than for my V60 recipe, I'm about as fine as I can go for 13-15g brew. A pain that Filtropa papers don't fit, Melitta browns do, might get away with a Kalita 101 white paper, we'll see. Not yet seeing any big plus over the Brewista but more brews may show something.


Why the 90 second bloom time? It seems longer than the typical recommendations.

Interesting discussion. thanks both!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Elcee said:


> Why the 90 second bloom time? It seems longer than the typical recommendations.
> 
> Interesting discussion. thanks both!


Because it works.  Typical bloom times seem more a question of habit than anything else, 60sec might be OK but never bothered to A/B so I stick with what I know works.

If I'm pouring in pulses (coarser grind), with a kettle & can direct the stream, then I might bloom for 20-40sec (to keep in line with pulse length so pours are more intuitive). With the OXO you seem to need to grind fine (leave longer to let the water permeate the bed), & all the water drops in a localised area, so I want the grounds to lose buoyancy ASAP after the brew water hits. I also tend to bloom longer for brews where I pour all the brew water straight in, so the grounds sink & settle quickly & aren't bypassed by brew water because they're still floating about.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Had a couple of brew bloomed via the tank seriously drop in EY, so now blooming direct to the bed, with a stir & shaking the brewer after the last water drains from the tank (last brew was a good EY but tasted uneven)...seems to be defeating the point of having the extra components. Turning in to more input than a normal Melitta.


Knocking the OXO on the head, it doesn't seem to offer any advantage with the extra bits, in fact they are more like labour inducing than labour saving & more likely to screw things up than assist.


----------



## donblacc (Jul 23, 2017)

A V60 always results in endless experimentation for me. So much possibility


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

donblacc said:


> A V60 always results in endless experimentation for me. So much possibility


For a starter kit, for someone who doesn't already know how to brew, it may be more satisfying for them to hit the ground brewing, rather than experimenting. V60 needs a pouring kettle, but with that it's very consistent...as long as you stick to papers from the same source (Holland/Japan).


----------

