# LaSpaziale Mini Vivaldi 2



## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Well for better or worse - I was unable to resist this afternoon and have just purchased (on fleabay) the above mentioned - supposedly in immaculate condition.

I haven't had a chance to pick it up yet, but if anyone has any tips on what to look out for would be greatful if you could let me know.

Many thanks Philip


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Excellent choice. Hope it turns out to be a good example of its kind.

This would probably be my first choice if I ever decide to replace my Sage DB (not that I see that happening anytime soon).

I seem to remember someone selling one a while back that had gone rusty underneath the water tank, despite being well looked after. Might be worth looking for signs of respray, but it is unlikely to affect its performance. Some evidence the seller knows what they are doing and has descaled on a regular basis, assuming water in the area requires it. Get them to make you a coffee to show that pressure is up on both boilers.

You can always have it serviced if you are worried.

Have fun with it. (Got a good grinder to match it with?)


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Hi Nick

I have a Mazzer SJ - hopefully that will do the trick..


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## aodstratford (Sep 18, 2012)

I have a vivaldi and have to say it does the job really well. It warms up pretty quickly behaves predictably and is easy to use - after a short time you will take it for granted. I am always looking at other grinders and cups etc - but never think about changing the vivaldi. If only it was a little prettier to look at ! I got a better shower screen and portafilter basket on one of the group buys some time ago - that took my coffee up a notch or three and I would recommend them (IMS I think they are called). Hope you enjoy your new machine !


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Good machine, check the steam boiler, it's very thin steel and the element is part of the boiler, so any problems with the element means a complete boiler replacement....other than that a reasonable machine with nothing too unusual to go wrong. The only expensive parts seem to be the control electronics, other parts are pretty standard.

Descaling is an issue with these machines, especially the steam boiler. It's extremely difficult to descale them properly, so most people don't. From memory when i tested them (and yours is probably a similar age), there is no way of actually draining the steam boiler. No drain plug (as it's a very thin pressed steel boiler) and with the power on the boiler keeps refilling as you draw water from it. this makes it VERY difficult (time consuming) to get all the descaler out and eliminate the acid taste. They use an electric solenoid valve, you can't open the water valve with the machine switched off. I suppose it might be possible with the pump disconnected (I never bothered trying), but as the water is taken from the top of the boiler using a tube that does not go all the way to the bottom, you're still going to be left with a fair bit of descaler in there and quite a lot of flushing to do.

The best way to descale is to remove a fitting and suck the descaler out, replace, allow to refill and repeat. Hence most people don't bother descaling them properly, which of course can lead to heating element failure.

One thing to note, it will rarely if ever show an overshoot on temperature, because they programmed it not to. So you may think it's really stable when in fact it's overshooting a lot. so be aware of this for your routine when pulling shots back to back. It's an extremely small brew boiler and the only way it recovers so fast is to pump loads of heat into it....with it doing that of course it's a physical impossibility for it not to overshoot....you just don't get told about it. I'm specifically talking here about earlier ones with no PID and the red led lights showing temperature. They "might" have fixed this in later models.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Thanks for all the info - guys..supposedly only had a few years useage - we will see...hopefully picking it up tonight. Will report back - did read something about it being hard to descaled - have seen a few articles online about it.

Thanks Philip


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Dam, blast and dam again - drove 1 1/2 to pick up the machine. Got it back to my work and noticed the manometer had rust in it , so definately not immaculate then. Fired her up today, got steam, got water through group head (after I cleaned it out). Manometer filled with water and not working properly. Also no water from the hot water outlet.

Arrgh....am going to have to return it - which will cost me another half a day and 18 quid in diesel.

Am gutted really - it's exactly what I was looking for - very quiet vibe pump quality bit of kit really - am torn - whether I should take it on as a project - but I have not idea much it's going to end up costing me...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Looking at Dave c post . I'd say return it . It's not what the seller said it was . Who knows £s and time it will take up


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

What a shame!







I agree though, return it ASAP. Probably a whole heap of trouble.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob666 said:


> What a shame!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't understand how people can sell something that isn't right,sometimes for sure it's because they don't know enough. If that's the case then it should be a red flag that it's been used with hard water, not maintained and has problems the they don't know about. In some cases minor problems can cause other more serious problems.

For the La Spaz,

1. The dual manometer is cheap enough to buy and easy to fit (probably £20-30).

2. No hot water could be solenoid blocked with limescale, just needs taking apart and cleaning. Or solenoid failed (£35). Or problem with main board (very expensive), or problem with button that operates solenoid.

Either way the machine has not been maintained well and may have other problems you have yet to find! For an immaculate machine, you would expect to get a 9-12 months use without any problems, assuming you use decent water. you certainly shouldn't have to clean the group, because that's like me trying to sell a used car without even bothering to wash it!

I would never sell anyone a machine that I wasn't certain about.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

To be honest Dave - I was sold on the description of Immaculate - fingers burned lesson learned. I think the machine has been sitting on a shelf for some time unused. It's a 2010 model. Lady said it had only had 1 yrs use since new - so


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Only discovered age today when cleaning it - wonder what it's been doing for the other 4 yrs? Am totally pissed of to be honest. Lady had over 500 rating 100 % feedback - so thought it would be a safe ish bet - live and learn..


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh bugger, thats a shame. Hope you get it sorted.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Beeroclock said:


> Only discovered age today when cleaning it - wonder what it's been doing for the other 4 yrs? Am totally pissed of to be honest. Lady had over 500 rating 100 % feedback - so thought it would be a safe ish bet - live and learn..


Just some stuff which is "shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted", but for next time...perhaps

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/blap24-blaps-ebay-bargain-humour (many a true word said in jest).

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/that-great-commercial-find-on-ebay (many a true word said in jest)

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/buying-a-used-commercial-machine (but some of it applies to domestic as well).


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

Was it the red one? That looked like ok from the picture on eBay.

Wow, just seen another went for £75 - I'd take a chance at that price.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Yep mine was the red one - though not the one from Salisbury, I can't see it in the completed - probably because I have opened a return. Seller has agreed to take it back or get a quote for repair. Am having it picked up by Mark Bloom of Coffeemend next week who has said he will take a look at it.

So who knows this could be the start of a journey. Funny thing is I really like the look of it, I know it's not everyone's taste...pulled a half decent shot out of it today. The hot water button definately not working - can't adjust the brew temp. - it's set on 95.

Keeping my finger crossed, but also being realistic, it's a gamble I know - but can't afford to spend the going rate for a new one...


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

For what it's worth the Vivaldi has a drainplug (basically a sealed screw in the bottom of the boiler) on the steamboiler, this where added on the latest model. if it's an older model, you could remove the primitive vacuum breaker and pour some citric acids solution in that way, vacuum it out and fill with fresh water a few times, and put the vacuum breaker in place (just need a new gasket/sealing tape)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

malling said:


> For what it's worth the Vivaldi has a drainplug (basically a sealed screw in the bottom of the boiler) on the steamboiler, this where added on the latest model. if it's an older model, you could remove the primitive vacuum breaker and pour some citric acids solution in that way, vacuum it out and fill with fresh water a few times, and put the vacuum breaker in place (just need a new gasket/sealing tape)


That's good news about the drainplug on the Mini Vivaldi?, if so, it only took them 10 years to add it!!!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Did I hear somewhere that the heating element is no longer an integral part of the hw/steam tank on the Mini.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ronsil said:


> Did I hear somewhere that the heating element is no longer an integral part of the hw/steam tank on the Mini.


If so that only took em another 10 years!

I moaned a lot about both things, plus other issues with their machines....they saw fit to ignore me.


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> If so that only took em another 10 years!I moaned a lot about both things, plus other issues with their machines....they saw fit to ignore me.


Well the ones I have seen with the drainplug, the heating elements where still an integrated part of the boiler, so if the heating elements, of some reason or another, needed to be replaced, you would need to replace the whole boiler. The tank design where and is still badly designed, and I have heard that a few vendors should have requested for a stronger spring, and replacing the chromed part that sticks out in the tank, with something more durable and long lasting. But I guess this have yet to come to fruition.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

malling said:


> Well the ones I have seen with the drainplug, the heating elements where still an integrated part of the boiler, so if the heating elements, of some reason or another, needed to be replaced, you would need to replace the whole boiler. The tank design where and is still badly designed, and I have heard that a few vendors should have requested for a stronger spring, and replacing the chromed part that sticks out in the tank, with something more durable and long lasting. But I guess this have yet to come to fruition.


Well i am afraid La Spaziale are right up their own arseholes when it comes to listening to their domestic customers. I tried with various issues on their machines, Vivaldi and Mini Vivaldi, they simply denied there was a problem for some, ignored others and promised to fix, but never did for the rest.

I am afraid a lot of manufacturers (too many) don't react as you think/expect them to when they know there are problems with a machine/s. it also really fecks me off when I see rave reviews about a product not even mentioning problems I know exist....I get especially annoyed when someone then calls me biased for mentioning certain problems etc.. sometimes.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Happy days!! the Vivaldi lives - new manometer, contacts cleaned around switch and solenoid cleaned checked, partial blockage from water feed addressed - picked up and delivered - for under a ton. Ebay seller has agreed to cover the costs







Machine deemed to be in good nick.

Am really happy now as I had already got quite attached to her - she's just the right size for work not too deep - pulled pretty good shot this morning - straight off the bat. Will post pictures later.

Cheers Philip


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Installed and pulling shots nicely - makes quite a change from my Silvia


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