# Not sure about Has Bean so far - beginner.



## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Hi guys,

So I finally got into the coffee world at home on a budget with an Aeropress and burr grinder. I bought the metal filter for the Aeropress as well and on the recommendation of these forum bought the espresso starter back from Has Bean. I was so excited to get it in the post and start grinding my fresh beans at home!

So I started with Jailbreak on my first use of the Aeropress and at first I thought it was really nice, although very "bright" for my tastes. Having made it again this morning, I'm not sure I like it at all. Its very bright, lemony, quite acidic id say, sweet. For me its missing all the bits of coffee I like the darkness, the kick, the bottom end. Its very rich, but in mostly the wrong ways for me, I find it almost nauseating. So I also tried Kicker and a the limencello single bean which I think is in the Jailbreak. Both of which had a stronger flavour, but again, almost too rich in places which made it difficult to enjoy and a little sickly again.

If I was to describe my tastes before this id say I always liked strong coffee. I never have a milky drink, id always have a double espresso or a black Americano, I wouldn't even really be interested in a flat white. In my experience I've enjoy Italian roasts. Ive had my favourite coffee in Italy and my favourite one ever in Sicily in a small cafe, for me it was perfect. In this country I've struggled to get anything near and I live in an area with no decent coffee shops just the chains. Without knowing what it was I found myself enjoy a black coffee the most in my large local Italian restaurant. It was Illy. I still maintain that restaurant has the best local coffee, they go through A LOT of coffee so Id imagine the beans are pretty fresh for Illy and they have fantastic equipment and good baristas. Elsewhere in the city I can't enjoy anything from Starbucks (again, I find nearly everything they do, even a black Americano sickly, not to mention I don't want things served in soup sized containers!) Costa I'm not a fan off, and if I have to do chains it would be Nero which I've had a lot better coffees than the other two local by me.

I'll shock you all now though by saying at home, in the morning I had the Starbucks VIA Italian Roast and I found it very enjoyable for one of the instant micro ground coffees. Id say I enjoy it more than the Has Bean blends I've tried so far! Granted it can't match up the freshness but the general balance is more to my taste. My regular drinker, shock horror again, to most here, was Kenco Millicano's Decaff. YES, a micro-ground instant DECAF. I have to be careful not to stock up on too much caffeine but a love a coffee taste so I drink this black a lot. For me it just goes down easy. Again these are both imitations of Italian coffees and coupled with Illy maybe this the road I should be trying to emulate as i'm not sure if the Has Bean blends would appeal to me?

I still have Jabber Wocky and Blake to try out and I guess I still need to perfect my Aeropress skills, maybe I need to steep for a bit longer or try some other methods. Maybe Ive just got weird tastebuds that don't match anyone else's on this forum! I can tell the Aeropress makes a good brew though, I mean I've tried cafetieres in the past and theres nothing worse when that goes wrong and you get a stale water coffee, urghh now that is disgusting. Maybe I should go and buy some Illy beans and compare them to what I know in the Aeropress? I know their freshness is going to be very questionable but then maybe that can be tested with me too - and perhaps I'll like Blake considering everyone else seems to hate it around here!

Thoughts -? On perhaps the fact I prefer a dark Italian roast?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It's ok not to like a particular roasters beans and a particular taste. The hasbean stuff you tried ,would not necessarily be to the palate of someone who enjoys a darker roast. There are Plenty of us on here who do like a darker roast , it's nothing to be ashamed off, same. Liking a lighter roast doesn't make you a wuss









Re trying other stuff , you could buy illy ,but there are so many other great roasters out there ,who will give you fresh beans that it would be a crying shame not to try them out . Please , please do . Most online roasters will have tasting notes and brew method against their beans ,I think you need to look for darker tasting beans and blends .

My two penny worth - Rave wouldn't be a bad place to start out , they do a Italian roast blend and a signature blend ,both of which would better suit your tastes .

Union roasters do a revelation blend which is on the darker side .

The only caveat to my suggestions is that I don't use aeropress ,so unsure of how they taste or brew In that ,but am sure others can help there .

Plus I can't help you get the best for the hasbean , in an aeropress either , as I haven't tried . Gary D might have some suggestions to tame the taste tho .


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> The only caveat to my suggestions is that I don't use aeropress ,so unsure of how they taste or brew In that ,but am sure others can help there .
> 
> Plus I can't help you get the best for the hasbean , in an aeropress either , as I haven't tried . Gary D might have some suggestions to tame the taste tho .


Would suggest Ravecoffee too. I have tried a couple of their beans in the aeropress and they do have a much darker taste than anything I have tried from Hasbean.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi realdannys,

I would recommend trying some single origin beans in the Aeropress.

Blends are generally profiled for espresso, often SO's better suit filter style coffee.

Not always, but mostly..

If you like Medium/Dark roasts, then yer Rave, Union, Extract etc. will fit the brief

Alternatively, Dave Coffeechap does a DSOL subscription thingy, which might suit..

p.s. I found the metal filter really 'bright' for lighter roasts - might be worth comparing the paper ones

Also, try lowering the water temperature (80-85C)

Regards


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Three possibilities:

1) You just naturally prefer a darker roast style, some do, nothing wrong with that.

2) You aren't used to properly roasted coffee and the different flavours that can be extracted when roasted with care.

3) You aren't getting the best out of your aeropress and are under/over extracting.

Solutions:

1) Try a darker roasted profile from a roastary such as Rave and see if that floats your boat.

2) Try explaining why you like the Starbucks. Strength and flavour are separate, do not confuse the two. If you try and pinpoint flavour within the Starbucks I bet you struggle beyond coffee? Think of beer, you have strong and weak which you can tell when you drink but says nothing of the flavour. Part of enjoying coffee roasted well is that it also develops your palette as you explore different origins/varietals/processes.

3) Search the forum brewed coffee section for tips and experiment with brew ratios to dial in your methods and also personal preferences. If you share your method you can get some feedback for improvement.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It sounds like :

1. Not the best choice of coffee for filter methods (although Jailbreak isnt a bad cup if brewed properly)

2. Youre under-extracting.

However ''In my experience I've enjoy Italian roasts. Ive had my favourite coffee in Italy ''

Forget Has Bean & SQM - they wont have much you will like


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I had read after I ordered that Has Bean have quite a light roasting profile and was worried straight away - although Illy are actually described as a medium roast - and I know they do a dark roast which I think I find a bit too far, so its a tough one. But then I guess theres a difference between what id call light, then an Italian medium and then an Italian Dark Roast.

I'll pop some of the suggestions on my list, although I've got a barrage of fresh coffee to get through now!

@aphelion - thanks for the suggestion RE single origin, I thought this too. I only have one single origin in my start up pack and I have noted a few mentioning they weren't too fond of Has Beans blends on here as I've been reading up. I will try the paper filters too, always worth a shot. I need to grab a thermometer for the water temperature too.

@forzajuve - re the Starbucks Italian Roast, you're probably right it is hard to describe it. Though I would say its dark, with a strong low end (where as Id describe Jailbreak has having a big mid-range/top end) Sorry - I'm originally from the music industry and strangley I find it easy to think of coffee in frequency bands for sound and I can see where the lows and highs are in my head! It say that its quite crisp though and punchy. Ironically this micro-ground instance, to me, is 10x better than any Starbucks espresso based drink I've had!

As for my technique. At the moment i'm basing it on some of the inverted methods. With Jailbreak Ive inverted the Aeropress, put about 19g of ground beans in on my finest espresso setting (its only a Delonghi grinder so thats no where near what a top grinder would achieve) I'm using Evian mineral water in the kettle and preheating my mug. Pouring over the water about half way for 14 seconds then stirring for ten, then pouring the rest of the water near to the top of the Aeropress and letting it step until the total time as been 1 minute 30, then I flip over and plunge slowly. I also tried pouring the water in all the way without the slight pre-infuse and allowing a minute of brew time but the results were negligible to be honest.

The single origin I have is "Nicaragua Finca Limoncillo Washed Cattura" It is described as a complex cup, and I would say that I can find that complexity slightly nauseating - it was definitely stronger than Jailbreak but it had a bit of a strong after taste too, which might be the "green apple acidity" described. This makes me fear for Jabberwocky which describes all the things I don't like the sound of (you watch it go and be my favourite now!)

So yes, maybe I want something a little more minimalistic and not complex for my everyday drinker which emphasises some of the Sicilian flavourers I like with a darker roast -with less richness.

(P.S. the beer analogies are lost on me, I don't drink! haha)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

realdannys said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys. I had read after I ordered that Has Bean have quite a light roasting profile and was worried straight away - although Illy are actually described as a medium roast - and I know they do a dark roast which I think I find a bit too far, so its a tough one. But then I guess theres a difference between what id call light, then an Italian medium and then an Italian Dark Roast.
> 
> I'll pop some of the suggestions on my list, although I've got a barrage of fresh coffee to get through now!
> 
> ...


Reduce the dose to 12-13g and allow a much longer steep. Try 4-5 minutes. Evian isnt a good water for brewing coffee


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi Realdannys,

"Strong" coffee is typically people's perception of darker roasted coffee, bitter coffee, or coffee with a high beans to water ratio.

As Gary points out it sounds like you are underextracting. This strikes me as very common with Aeropress steeps.

Before you give up on the beans, try using the AP like a drip brewer. Keep it the right way up, grind 14-16g like sand/caster sugar, bloom with twice the weight of coffee for 30-45 seconds, then gently but quickly fill up to 65-70g/l total. At first the coffee will drain out quite quickly, then after a while it will stall...you can either continue to let it drip (may take several minutes), or use the plunger to get the last bit out. Rinsing the grinds out, rather than steeping, will potentially allow you to wash more of the soluble solids out of the coffee (greater level of extraction).

Towards the end, lift the Aeropress off the cup & taste the drips coming out, if still fruity & acidic, leave it to drain (grind finer next time). If it's watery, bland & just a little bitter then you are about done. If it's darkly, smokey, bitter then whip it of the cup, give the cup a good stir & taste again (grind a little coarser next time). Focus on the flavour, not getting a predetermined volume of coffee out...you can adjust for that when you get the flavour right.

It's fine to simply not like beans from a certain roaster, but it's better to ensure that you are getting the best out of the beans in the first place, so that when you switch roasters you're not just masking the problem...and getting a preferable cup, but maybe not a "representative" cup. Though, as long as you make it how you like it, that's what is most important.

I have had great coffees from roasters frequently mentioned here...but if you extract it well, even old, over-roasted supermarket coffee tastes "good"! :-o...Not that this is easy to always do in an Aeropress steep.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Regarding Evian @ 357 mg/l you'll struggle to extract the coffee.

Something like Tesco Ashbeck or Volvic is better suited.


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Regarding Evian @ 357 mg/l you'll struggle to extract the coffee.
> 
> Something like Tesco Ashbeck or Volvic is better suited.


Ah ha, ok, thats a great help, I'll try a different water, I thought I was doing good with the Evian.

I will try a longer steep, although I haven't found any Aeropress steeps that are longer than a couple of minutes and I've watched just about every Youtube video I could find and I downloaded an Aeropress app for my phone which shows a bunch of brewing methods from various people.

But i'll try for longer, with a paper filter. The beans do smell nice although so rich its almost nauseating, like when you eat too much chocolate! As opposed to the darker small of a cafe which is gorgeous.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Well at work my aeropress steeps are 4 mins with low TDS water and 7-8-9 mins for high TDS.

Its not unknown for a +25min steep to be used in our household for the Clever coffee dripper. I thank MWJB for that ; )

Dont forget the importance of grind quality for brewed coffee, your finest espresso setting might not be the most uniform


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Excuse my ignorance, what does TDS stand for?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I have steeped for 50 minutes plus in the Aeropress...you won't overextract, you'll just have cold coffee after that kind of time.

People like the Aeropress because you can get a reasonable level of extraction quickly...but in many cases "reasonable" will = "bright/zingy"...you sound like you want to go further than that. You also don't really know what the designers of these recipes are aiming for, they might be hitting their preference bang on, but it might not be your preference.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

realdannys said:


> Excuse my ignorance, what does TDS stand for?


Total dissolved solids.

The less solids in the water the more efficient a solvent it is (well its more complex than that but...).

You want about 80-150 TDS water to brew with. Volvic is probably the best you can aim for


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I always aim for 14g of course-ish ground coffee with a 2 min inverted steep but this does indeed produce a pretty bright acidic cup, best to steep for a lot longer, I guess.


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Well, here's a curve ball which makes me feel like a philistine. I just decided to try a paper filter and some pre-ground Illy had a left. The pre-ground is like two weeks old so its no where near fresh. I just used tap water, I probably had the water too hot and allowed 1 min 30 to steep. I expect it to be stale and burnt tasting and I was just doing it, with most things wrong, just as a way of getting rid of the end of that rubbish that was left.

Low and behold I like it more than the Jailbreak. Sure its a touch stale, but its dark, its warm, its roasty, its italian! It was very strong coming out of the Aeropress so I watered it down slightly (though not too much). Put it this way, this stale, pre ground coffee, is going much towards what I like. Now I'm sure I can improve on the freshness and quality further too. I guess I quite like a touch of the bitterness, but its still smooth. Its not Starbucks headache inducing raw caffeine bitterness in a water down jug...


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

id say some good old yorkshire tap water is what every machine craves!


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Fevmeister said:


> id say some good old yorkshire tap water is what every machine craves!


Haha! Well the water is pretty harsh road here and to be fair, I don't drink it on its own as it has too strong of a taste. Maybe I should try my has been in it though!


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

I tell you what this Illy reminds me of now its cooled off, a place with a bad barista and a dirty machine haha. Its like its imitating the flavours I like, more so than the Has Bean but with the staleness that spoils it. Its like most chain coffees that can different radically from one store to the other dependant on management and staff - though theres nothing worse than going to that fancy hotel that sells Illy or Lavazza by someone who doesn't care, to about 5 people a day and from a machine which hasn't been cleaned through for about two years....urghhh.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I think even a well extracted brew of any of the Has Bean coffees isnt going to match your expectations


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

I think you could be right, damn...theres a lot beans to get through! ha


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Maybe try offering a swap through the forum for something darker.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Possibly you're craving something with a little bit of 'robusta' (heaven forbid!)

Italians certainly prefer that additional kick that it offers...

Rave Italian Job might be just the ticket!


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Maybe, although Illy is 100% Arabica and considered medium roast by Italian standards, so...

Ive just tried Blake, which ive heard someone in these forums describe as "tasting like horse shit" haha. I can see where they're coming from and the earthyness is different but its got a nice boldness to it i like. It was initially too strong so i put about 1/4 water in and thats a bit too watery for me now, but i think i prefer it overall to Jailbreak.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I really like the Has Bean Single Origin's, and I really don't like the Has Bean blends. They've just never struck me the same way. FWIW everyone seems to buy the Espresso Starter Kit with the Aeropress, but an aeropress is not an espresso maker. It's more of a brewed coffee device. General concession seems to be that the paper filters make a better cup than the metal disc too.

I agree with others though, you won't like any of Has Bean's offerings if you want a darker Italian roast. Try and swap some beans with somebody for some darker ones, or just gift them off too friends and accept that you've learnt something about coffee and your tastes! Try and get some beans from the next DSOL if there are extra going, and see if you enjoy them more.

I've always heard Volvic is the best water to choose, but can't back that up with scientific fact.


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Tried the single origin again today, with tap water! and the paper filter and a slightly longer brew and a very slightly courser grind - I preferred it. It was rather nice actually. I think i'd still like to reel in the high notes/citrus/brightness a touch though. Really do want to try Rave's Italian blend now.


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Another tap water and paper filter experiment. I really like Taylor of Harrogates Lazy Sunday blend. Problem is i doubt you can buy those beans freshly roasted any where. Anyone tried this and perhaps recommend similar? Again like the Illy, its only considered a medium roast strength 3.


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

realdannys said:


> Another tap water and paper filter experiment. I really like Taylor of Harrogates Lazy Sunday blend. Problem is i doubt you can buy those beans freshly roasted any where. Anyone tried this and perhaps recommend similar? Again like the Illy, its only considered a medium roast strength 3.


That was the coffee I bought as a student a few years back, repeatedly. Trying to think of the most similar thing I've drunk, IIRC it's mostly latin/south american with a bit of african roasted fairly light. I reckon you want a medium roast filter blend from somewhere.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

realdannys said:


> Another tap water and paper filter experiment. I really like Taylor of Harrogates Lazy Sunday blend. Problem is i doubt you can buy those beans freshly roasted any where. Anyone tried this and perhaps recommend similar? Again like the Illy, its only considered a medium roast strength 3.


Pic a roaster ,drop them a line or call them. Let them know your taste preference and how you brew . Any of the good ones will recommended you a bean for your brewing method . I have no idea what Taylor's Tate like I would think there aren't many of here that do .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Pic a roaster ,drop them a line or call them. Let them know your taste preference and how you brew . Any of the good ones will recommended you a bean for your brewing method . I have no idea what Taylor's Tate like I would think there aren't many of here that do .


I have drunk Taylors twice in the last month, sounds like you want to avoid the Kenya Nyeri (bright, citric), Rich Italian works well in a steep (not tried either in an Aeropress though).


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Thanks, I think you're right, avoiding bright and citric could be right. I might grab some of the Taylors beans anyway, just to play around and naturally the Rich Italian name rings well with me! I am liking the single origin from Has Bean more and certainly Blake has something about it, although a very acquired distinctive taste I would suggest.

But yes, if I were to mark up my tastes that I like id be certainly saying medium to medium-dark roasts, Italian, Illy, Taylors Lazy Sunday (which they say is central american and south american) and Id like to try their Rich Italian beans too. I think I wouldn't mind trying Costa's beans too if I can get hold of them really fresh and not from the supermarket, I know there are a few on this forum that really like that blend and perhaps it would also suit me.

But looking at Rave they have three things like to try, their Fudge blend, the Italian blend and their Swiss Water Decaf because unfortunately I do have to be a little careful with caffeine in take, but I want to drink a lot more coffee than my intake levels allow, so a good decaf is next to be lined up - Londonium's is recommended but at £10.50 per 250g is a touch out of my price range really for a daily drinker.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If you like darker type tastes them I not sure the fudge is for you, I have tried this as espresso milk based drinks,whilst lovely . It is not a darker . . The Italian and the signature blend, yes .again tho I have no experience of these In aeropress.

The Sumatran jajong would be worth looking at ( single origin ) .

I will be surprised if you find fresh costa beans, but search on the forum , there was someone offering them for sale a while ago .


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

I wasn't sure if my tastes count as 'darker' now or not, considering Lazy Sunday is considered medium roast, strength 3, Illy is considered medium roast and pretty light for Italian coffee.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

No worries , again I love the fudge blend ,but it isn't in the same ball park as say a costa bean etc.


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Yeah - I'll be honest I've never really liked a Costa coffee in store, but I thought it worth trying as I experiment at home. Would they be considered a dark roast?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

realdannys said:


> Yeah - I'll be honest I've never really liked a Costa coffee in store, but I thought it worth trying as I experiment at home. Would they be considered a dark roast?


There are so many great roasters , blends and beans that you could experiment with before using costa beans . In general the chain stores beans are roasted darker to allow the espresso to cut through the buckets of milk they add to their drinks . If you dont to Iike it from them instore , don't buy it for home .....


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

I wish you could buy 50g samples from the suppliers! That would be great.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

realdannys said:


> I wish you could buy 50g samples from the suppliers! That would be great.


Depends on the brewing method , for espresso you might only get two - three shots of of it , with dialling in the bean you might not get any decent ones at all., 50 grams would not be worth it . For some grinder they need more than 50 g in them to give a consistent grind .

Talk to a roaster , check their tasting notes and brewing suggestions . Dive in !


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

I used to live near these guys https://twodaycoffee.co.uk/our-coffees

They sell in smaller quantities, if you want. Should have gone there more.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Is someone actually going to stop the troll from posting or Not? Clearly it is someone who has been on before and I really think enough is enough


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> Bottom Line: It's pretty much unfair to compare the great, long established coffee houses with independent roasters. All of the great coffee brands known and endorsed the world over excel in their blends but some excel more than others. Lavazza coffee has that extra-special smoothness not found in any other coffee brands. Illy excel in their roasts and packaging: Open an Illy can and you have beans as fresh as the day they were roasted. The great coffee houses know that the bean, the roast and the grind has to be matched faultlessly to the brewing method. Independent roasters cannot compete with that simply because they don't have the experience and dedication. You know, we can't take a single origin bean, throw it into a roaster and call it great; Where is the greatness in that? Independent roasters are an entertaining novelty and a worthwhile experience in sampling single origin beans but nothing more than that!


What a twat...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Please don't , I'd rather he just shut up


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Well, back on OP topic. Danny if youre ever in Birmingham you can come and see what Has Bean tastes like when its brewed fairly optimally, least you'll know if technique or palate is driving your preference.


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Sounds like a good offer thanks Gary. Not sure what I've caused here!

I will add that I naughtily picked up some Taylors Lazy Sunday and Rich Italian beans last night, made a cup each and I do really like them. I'm sure id love Rave's Italian too. Now to find a swiss water decaff that isn't "under roasted" for me...


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

The single origin from Has Bean is really growing on me though.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Palates evolve over time


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## realdannys (Nov 5, 2013)

Well i would describe any of the beans as "horrible" just not quite hitting the spot for me. I certainly prefer Taylors Rich Italian and Lazy Sunday over Jailbreak, the freshness in roast doesn't make up for the fundamental flavour. A friend is sending me some fresh roasts over from independent roasters in Berlin, interested to see how they compare.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If they are from the Barn in Berlin then good times, although they might be a little light for you


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