# Top of the range small footprint grinders?



## Waddy (Jun 10, 2013)

So, I can have a large commercial grinder, but something small would be preferred.

Are there any grinders that have the quality of say, a la cimbali magnum, but the footprint of a mazzer mini or a eureka mignon, or is that too much to ask?

Is it even possible to fit really big quality burrs in a small footprint machine with all the electronics and motors etc? I have in my head that it would be like buying a laptop rather than a desktop. You pay extra for the technology that goes into making everything more compact.

Basically I would feel a bit daft putting a double shot worth of beans in a hopper that can handle 2 kilos.

The obvious answer is probably a Pharos, which is a massive consideration.

Also lets just say money isn't an issue for now.

Thanks


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## Callum_T (Dec 23, 2012)

I reckon best of both worlds (grind quality/ consistency vs. size)is the Malhkonig K30 - the size is strange but very easy to deal with if that makes sense.

Grinders like the magnum and say the mythos are just huge really and quite hard to tame to not look like there taking over.

Bottom line if you could live with the size of a SJ you should be fine with the size of the K30 and you'll reap the benefits as the K30 is an awesome bit of kit.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To me it doesn't matter if your only putting in 150 -200 g into large grinder at a time , because of the quality and consistency of grind you will get from it, there are a fair few on here with mythos , k30, big mazzer s etc. there is a reason for that, what they do . . Having a small machine because you single dose isn't the correct logic if your going after quality, plus big burrs , big motors don't fit in small machines . Will you get something the size of a mignion producing quality of a 75 mm magnum? My answer would be no, I may be wrong, lets se what others say . If you could they would sell like hotcakes , if you want to single dose and you have the time and you want quality , then get a hg1 . It's pretty , it's smallish ( compared to say a robur lol ) , it will single dose. It's not quick, and you need the time to do it , it's expensive .

As the hg1 example illustrates , It's all about trade offs in the end , and what you value , can live with , and it important to you .

Perceived value for money

Quality of grind and espresso it makes

Space available , how it looks .

Ease of use for you (doser ,no doser , timer et. )

Earache from partner

What your happy with !


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Pharos is a good shout. 63mm conical burrs in a reasonably compact package. Think I'm going to get one myself now they're back in stock.


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

Versalab m3

Hg one

Pharos

Depends what your definition of big is really? I think big conicals all have large motors which pushes the size up.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

I agree, it's all about the footprint you want. I wouldn't call a HG-One small, it's dimensions are approx 30cm x 30cm x 50cm (w x d x h).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Geordie Boy said:


> I agree, it's all about the footprint you want. I wouldn't call a HG-One small, it's dimensions are approx 30cm x 30cm x 50cm (w x d x h).


It's all comparative


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

My hg1 analogy was to show that most suggestions will have plus and minus points ,


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Agreed and you do have to compromise somewhere. I have seen a pharos (and it's about as small as you'll get) however it just looked like a faff to use to me


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Geordie Boy said:


> Agreed and you do have to compromise somewhere. I have seen a pharos (and it's about as small as you'll get) however it just looked like a faff to use to me


Same with me and hg1 , great grind quality , looks lovely , don't want to use it At 7am when trying to get a coffee before catching the bus or when I need to make 4 drinks for mates


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## c_squared (Jun 26, 2013)

The OP has pretty much asked all the questions I've been pondering recently. I'm watching this with interest, although realistically speaking the pharos is the only one listed so far that might be in my budget. Shame really because the others listed are very appealing!!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How much is a Pharos now ?


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Same with me and hg1 , great grind quality , looks lovely , don't want to use it At 7am when trying to get a coffee before catching the bus or when I need to make 4 drinks for mates


I'm the opposite with the hg-one. I upgraded from an mc2 so from my perspective it's actually quicker to use than my previous grinder. Also I have a Strega which takes ages to stop pouring as it holds more water in the group, so you can grind the next beans before it's finished. Granted though that it's not for everyone.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> How much is a Pharos now ?


It's on the website for $245. No idea what additional you'll have to pay (i.e. postage, etc) as I can't find the link to buy. You might want to consider the VoodooDaddy mod to get the grinds easier.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I think the versalab is pretty much what OP described. And is money is no object....


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Bear in mind if your order from OE gets intercepted on the way over they'll send you a bill for VAT and a handling charge for the courier before they release it.


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## c_squared (Jun 26, 2013)

I checked on the oe site, the pharos delivered to the uk is about $310. Suddenly becomes less attractive when I know I would want to get the mods for it at some point and they don't come cheap either.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

aaronb said:


> Bear in mind if your order from OE gets intercepted on the way over they'll send you a bill for VAT and a handling charge for the courier before they release it.


I personally wouldn't ship it over. My sister lives there and is visiting next month so will get her to bring it over if she has space.

Sorry Mr Osborne! (I'm sure she'll declare it at customs!)


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Uk customs have really stepped up their game the last couple of years. Nearly everything i buy stateside gets tugged for duty


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I would expect to pay duty on any item from the States now. That makes the Versalab a huge investment, no matter how good. But if money really is no object, at the moment it is the best home grinder on the market. Not that the home grinder market is more than a handful of grinders!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

forzajuve said:


> I would expect to pay duty on any item from the States now. That makes the Versalab a huge investment, no matter how good. But if money really is no object, at the moment it is the best home grinder on the market. Not that the home grinder market is more than a handful of grinders!


Agree with the mods and the customs , it becomes less value for money for me versus some of the other options that bring more convenience .


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## Waddy (Jun 10, 2013)

Thanks for all the comments guys. It's what I figured really.

So how does the Pharos compare to the HG one?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

HG 1 is a better grinder but the consistency of grind is pretty similar, just much more of a faff on the Pharos


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ask coffeechap who has had both. Ronsil has a Versalab and he swears by it but I am not so sure. That and the HG One are well designed. I had an HG and binned it after a week as I just could not live with it, no matter how good the grind may be. The Pharos is great allegedly but a real faff, especially if you change beans.

Do not compromise......ge tthe biggest grinder you can! Importing from the States is a pain in the butt! My Hg cost $160 dollars for the Courier and a further £117 import duty!


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## Waddy (Jun 10, 2013)

The Versalabs looks great and exactly what i'd be looking for, but I was banking on getting one for a lot cheaper second hand. It looks like those things hold their value like crazy. Probably out of the question then. Would like to keep it under £400 really.

Btw what ever I get will be coupled with a La Pavoni Pro that i'll be getting from coffeechap


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

No choice then get the Pharos, or a really good commercial grinder.


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

I've had a Pharos for three weeks and am loving it. Wasted about 150g dialing in the first time but have had no problems switching between beans (30g max waste and often just 15g). In the last six months I've gone from a Vario to a Caimano to the Pharos. I regretted the first switch as despite the grinds feeling cooler and looking fluffier I saw no discernible improvement in the cup between the Vario and the Caimano but with extra hassle of a grind shoot to clear. Very different story with the Pharos, I've noticed that I'm able to distinguish between flavours in a way that I wasn't able to with the other two grinders - the aroma when grinding is also much stronger. I was a little worried about getting grinds out but the newer models have a modification which means that in reality it's very easy to remove all the grinds. It's also a pretty quick grinder - I can do 15g in 25 seconds. Only things I'd switch it for would be a Versalab or HGone but at the price difference I'm very happy to stick with the Pharos and probably will do for a long time!


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## Waddy (Jun 10, 2013)

Nimble Motionists said:


> I've had a Pharos for three weeks and am loving it. Wasted about 150g dialing in the first time but have had no problems switching between beans (30g max waste and often just 15g). In the last six months I've gone from a Vario to a Caimano to the Pharos. I regretted the first switch as despite the grinds feeling cooler and looking fluffier I saw no discernible improvement in the cup between the Vario and the Caimano but with extra hassle of a grind shoot to clear. Very different story with the Pharos, I've noticed that I'm able to distinguish between flavours in a way that I wasn't able to with the other two grinders - the aroma when grinding is also much stronger. I was a little worried about getting grinds out but the newer models have a modification which means that in reality it's very easy to remove all the grinds. It's also a pretty quick grinder - I can do 15g in 25 seconds. Only things I'd switch it for would be a Versalab or HGone but at the price difference I'm very happy to stick with the Pharos and probably will do for a long time!


Thanks this really helps. I'm bad for changing my mind constantly so I want to be sure

Pharos it is still then

All I need to do now is get my hands on one without paying ridiculous tax. The bench clamps they come with would be a bonus too, but should be able to conjure something up if I can't get my hands on some

Also, anyone got a link to a good site that sells pavoni accessories? Would like a bottomless PF, a top quality 49mm tamper and other bits and bobs that might take my fancy.


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## c_squared (Jun 26, 2013)

Nimble Motionists said:


> I've had a Pharos for three weeks and am loving it. Wasted about 150g dialing in the first time but have had no problems switching between beans (30g max waste and often just 15g). In the last six months I've gone from a Vario to a Caimano to the Pharos. I regretted the first switch as despite the grinds feeling cooler and looking fluffier I saw no discernible improvement in the cup between the Vario and the Caimano but with extra hassle of a grind shoot to clear. Very different story with the Pharos, I've noticed that I'm able to distinguish between flavours in a way that I wasn't able to with the other two grinders - the aroma when grinding is also much stronger. I was a little worried about getting grinds out but the newer models have a modification which means that in reality it's very easy to remove all the grinds. It's also a pretty quick grinder - I can do 15g in 25 seconds. Only things I'd switch it for would be a Versalab or HGone but at the price difference I'm very happy to stick with the Pharos and probably will do for a long time!


Just out of interest, did you get it second hand or new from the states? If new, did you get stung on duty and if so how much. I keep swinging from thinking the pharos is for me to looking at alternatives. There don't seem to be many around second hand which is a shame because that would probably give me the push needed to buy one!

You say it isn't so bad for removing the grinds, any chance of a video?


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

I got mine second-hand from coffeechap. Will try to post a video later.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Just ordered mine. I'll provide some feedback in a month or so!


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

Sorry, tried videoing this afternoon but the results are only good for comic relief. Turns out that the biggest flaw of this grinder is that unless you have a tripod it's very hard to film yourself using it as it's definitely a two-hand grinder!!


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## c_squared (Jun 26, 2013)

Nimble Motionists said:


> Sorry, tried videoing this afternoon but the results are only good for comic relief. Turns out that the biggest flaw of this grinder is that unless you have a tripod it's very hard to film yourself using it as it's definitely a two-hand grinder!!


Haha, no worries


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