# Bezzera Strega new owner questions



## Lord Fluff

Yes, mine since Wednesday...and while I wait for my HG One to arrive I am pondering a few things, mostly the notable differences from an E61 machine. Owners, what think you....?

- I've read 12 mins from cold to fully heated up. Is this true?

- If so, how do you know exactly when it's ready?

- Since that is such a short period of time, do you tend to leave it on in the daytime, or on 24/7, or just turn it on and off as needed?

- Steam power is amazing but very wet for quite a while, is this normal?

- Boiler seems to fire up, albeit briefly, literally every two minutes. Again, normal?

- Finally, any top tips for great results? Aside from "mind you don't get an uppercut"









Thanks all


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## Mrboots2u

It has a group heater , so may well be up to temp quick, but use a timer .

When the group is way to hot to hold your had on ,its ready.

Buy a wemo and run it off a timer would be my advise ( as above )

Steam wise - does it have a no burn steam arm. Purge of any wet steam .

Boiler firing up is normal

Get a grinder and good coffee and enjoy ( plus scales and use decent water )


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## coffeechap

To be honest there are very few owners here, the best place will be HB where you got your advice to buy it from. many more folk there and of course the legendary Jim shulman to help out.


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> To be honest there are very few owners here, the best place will be HB where you got your advice to buy it from. many more folk there and of course the legendary Jim shulman to help out.


echo the above.The yanks think this machine is magnificent and cannot be beaten....I had one, it lasted 2 months. I hope you enjoy yours a lot more than I did. My trouble was the machine I had before was an L1 and the two are not even in the same year group to compare.

The Strega can make a reasonable shot, as can any lever but as CC says, probably better off reading HB or coffee snobs if you want positive garglings


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## Mrboots2u

Enjoy your new machine . HB ( as your know already fluff ) will be an invaluable resource for this machine. Im sure I'm the right hands it will make a great espresso . @Soll and @Geordieboy have had or have this machine on here also and will give you their more long term experiences with it....

Have fun


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## Lord Fluff

dfk41 said:


> echo the above.The yanks think this machine is magnificent and cannot be beaten....I had one, it lasted 2 months.


Before it broke or you moved on?

Considered the L1 but the 600 quid extra to get a machine that had seemingly less potential for experimentation didn't appeal.


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## 4085

Lord Fluff said:


> Before it broke or you moved on?
> 
> Considered the L1 but the 600 quid extra to get a machine that had seemingly less potential for experimentation didn't appeal.


Lets hope for sake it did not break in 2 months! I moved it on,because it annoyed me. With the chamber being so much bigger it takes forever for the water to extract out after you have finished the shot, meaning you are sitting waiting for 30 seconds plus. If you only pull one shot at a time then that is not an issue but at the time I owned it, I pulled multiple shots regularly.

I agree you can do everything from a pump assisted shot, to various degrees of guessed at shots. I say guessed at as all you are doing is guessing how much water you are taking into the chamber before the spring takes over.

Are you going to get a box to stand on and remember to flex at the knee?

I hope you enjoy your machine. Machines are intensely personal things so as long as you enjoy it, then to hell with what anyone else thinks. My only worry is that for me, I would never buy anything on the recommendation of a forum, an overseas forum and certainly not one over the pond.


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## Lord Fluff

dfk41 said:


> My only worry is that for me, I would never buy anything on the recommendation of a forum, an overseas forum and certainly not one over the pond.


Thanks for the reply - I agree it's a personal thing since for many, me included, using the gear is part of the fun.

But how else DO you choose a machine, if not from the recommendations of others? It's not like you can even see most of them in the flesh in the UK, let alone try them.

Even the "sort of British" Londinium isn't in a showroom anywhere in the UK. I did get to try a quickmill veloce, but again the Strega to me offered more.

And no box or knee bends required thanks


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## jlarkin

On warm up time I always leave it about half an hour. I just make sure I either set the time or set it warning before using it. I leave it on for as long as I think I'll "need" espresso based drinks that day.

I haven't tried it sooner to know how warm it is.

I haven't found steam excessively wet but haven't tried a lot of other machines. I do find a pretty decent purge to start helps it.

I haven't played much with the pump side or slowing the lever after letting it up but really like it.

Definitely avoid letting go of the lever before it's ready, it has a hell of a kick .

I just have it on a normal height counter and have not felt the need to develop any bizarre knee bending techniques


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## 4085

There are one or two retailers have plenty of machines ( but not levers). I bet someone with an L1 lives within 25 miles of you with about 50 owners on the forum. There are 3 or 4 Strega owners and half a dozen Veloce who all would have helped you. I suspect there is a reason why the Strega has not caught on in the way it has in the States! At the end of the day, lever owners tend to be purists and view the Strega as a hybrid. If you think it makes wonderful coffee then that is what counts!


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## Lord Fluff

I suspect you're right - the very thing that for me makes the Strega a 'better' machine than Veloce or L1 is going to put others off - though if you were to cut the pump the instant it went quiet you'd be dealing with almost a pure lever machine.

Ultimately the overwhelming positivity over on HB, combined with a much lower price (I effectively got my HG One for free, compared to buying a L1 instead of the Strega) and the somewhat clumsy aesthetics and chequered past of the Veloce (not to mention it being 400 more too), meant that the Strega won a one-horse race.

Time will tell if it's a keeper, but I suspect so, especially when I start to faff about with "playing it like an instrument" as per Jim Schulman's methods.


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## Lord Fluff

jlarkin said:


> I haven't found steam excessively wet but haven't tried a lot of other machines. I do find a pretty decent purge to start helps it.


My Expobar produced water for about 2 seconds, then dry steam from then on. My Strega needs at least 10s of producing very wet steam before we get to the good stuff.



jlarkin said:


> Definitely avoid letting go of the lever before it's ready, it has a hell of a kick .
> 
> I just have it on a normal height counter and have not felt the need to develop any bizarre knee bending techniques


Yeah, I was doing a cooling flush with slightly wet hands and the lever flew out of my hands - that was memorable.....











​


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## coffeechap

Lord Fluff said:


> I suspect you're right - the very thing that for me makes the Strega a 'better' machine than Veloce or L1 is going to put others off.


The important thing here is the YOU statement as the Strega is not in the same class as either of the other two machines you considered, both in build quality and the end result in the cup. I did a mini review of the Strega and was not impressed but I don't want to go into all the ins and outs of that. It does seem to be well liked in the states, probably down to the endorsement of Mr shulman. I hope you enjoy it and I hope you get some great coffee from it.


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## Lord Fluff

Thanks. Do you have a link to your mini review - I'm interested to read your opinions. I'd previously read the veloce build was distinctly iffy, though I know it's an evolving thing.

How long ago did you test the Strega? Mine seems better out of the box than older reviews would suggest (ie no issues with PF, leaks etc)


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## 4085

Lord Fluff said:


> Thanks. Do you have a link to your mini review - I'm interested to read your opinions. I'd previously read the veloce build was distinctly iffy, though I know it's an evolving thing.
> 
> How long ago did you test the Strega? Mine seems better out of the box than older reviews would suggest (ie no issues with PF, leaks etc)


The Veloce build is not at all iffy....LOL Whoever told you that is talking pants! The problem was that between the prototype and the first run of machines, some bright spark decided to increase the boiler from 2.1 to 3.0 litres. The end result was that the symmetry of the thermosyphon design was interfered with and as a result, the syphon did not work properly and continually stalled.

It did not take QM long to find the fault and then retro fit the few machines they had sold.I know of only one other problem regarding these machines but it is only present in one persons machine which would suggest it is isolated and possibly not even a machine problem.

And for the usual protagonists, that is not me being defensive, it is me telling the plain truth


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## jlarkin

Lord Fluff said:


> Thanks. Do you have a link to your mini review - I'm interested to read your opinions.


It's pretty easy to find: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=10341


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## Lord Fluff

coffeechap said:


> The important thing here is the YOU statement as the Strega is not in the same class as either of the other two machines you considered, both in build quality and the end result in the cup.


I don't doubt the L1 wins the build quality shootout (for 700 quid more it certainly damn well should), but the 'in the cup' quality seems entirely open to debate, given the differential in opinion here vs elsewhere. My point was actually to do with the Strega being 'better' due to the ability to play around with how the 9 BAR pump is deployed within a given shot, which is not possible on the more 'purist' machines.


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## 4085

so when you employ the pump and start to experiment, are you shooting in the dark, guessing, or able to replicate the shot time after time?I think you will have an uphill struggle to convince the 50 plus L1 and Veloce owners on this forum that they all have the wrong machine.......but, god loves a trier!


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## Mrboots2u

You bought a machine, enjoy the coffee it makes would be my advice , not the endless debate of whats best ......


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## 4515

In any hobby, you ask what is the best equipment and invariably the answer you get will be the kit that the respondent owns or would like to own.

Youve spent your hard earned on your machine - enjoy it for what it is. If you decide it isnt what you were after, change it.

I bought my machine after sampling the coffee produced by the machine, speaking to some well respected forum members and after playing with the machine at a forum day at Bella Barista (ironic that it isnt a machine that they sell). When I'm spending big bucks on anything, I like to satisfy myself that it is right before it lands on my doorstep.

If youre not looking for your next machine after a few months (DFK excepted) then youve bought the right machine.


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## 4515

Mrboots2u said:


> You bought a machine, enjoy the coffee it makes would be my advice , not the endless debate of whats best ......


Seems you precied my ramblings while I was typing


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## Hide

After reading good and bad comments on the strega i'm never more confused with the Lever (or hybrids as some says) machines. I have now choices on Bezzera (Strega vs Mitica/Magica E61 vs BZ13 proprietary) and other major brands E61s which are significantly more expensive than what Bezzera can offer.

The strega is around 3-400GBP equivalent more expensive than the E61s, is the Strega worth that much more than the E61's? In this forum i'm almost poisoned by every thread talking about the Londinium, but its almost doubled (given the shipping cost to my country) the cost vs Strega. So does the Strega worth what is it being at such price point?


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## Lord Fluff

Hide said:


> So does the Strega worth what is it being at such price point?


Depends on who you ask.....

Over at Home Barista you will hear a lot from people who love their Strega - over here clearly not so much.

I had a nice E61 machine for a few years but always missed the involvement of a lever. The option to play around with hybrid pump/lever shots really appealed to me, (here it seems to be seen as a negative) so I actually chose the Strega regardless (sort of) of the price.

Am I getting shots now that are $$$ better than I got with the E61 machine? Debatable. But the pleasure of using the machine, and the potential to play with pressure profiling means it's worth it TO ME.


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## Lord Fluff

dfk41 said:


> so when you employ the pump and start to experiment, are you shooting in the dark, guessing, or able to replicate the shot time after time?


I'm playing around with an SO from Papua New Guinea and a combo of medium pressure PI, then full pump pressure to complete the fill, then immediately cutting the pump and letting the lever 'play out' has generated some lovely shots.

BTW, not trying to win a 'who has the best machine' war!


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## Mrboots2u

Hide said:


> After reading good and bad comments on the strega i'm never more confused with the Lever (or hybrids as some says) machines. I have now choices on Bezzera (Strega vs Mitica/Magica E61 vs BZ13 proprietary) and other major brands E61s which are significantly more expensive than what Bezzera can offer.
> 
> The strega is around 3-400GBP equivalent more expensive than the E61s, is the Strega worth that much more than the E61's? In this forum i'm almost poisoned by every thread talking about the Londinium, but its almost doubled (given the shipping cost to my country) the cost vs Strega. So does the Strega worth what is it being at such price point?


Ill simplfy it if i can

Different machines ( e61 , strega, l1 ) do different things , made by different people

If you can try at some retailers , or post up where you are and see if there is a strega / l1 owner near you

Its really hard to quantify if you will find the value of an l1 v its price

There is also the l1 forum where people can ask questions pre buying be worth a shot , or see if there is an L1 near you to try

The strega and the l1 really are different beasts , built in different places , with different bits ( the group on the l1 costs as much as it weighs )

On any forum USA , Uk , Aussie , you will tend to get people who favour the machine they have .....


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## 4515

Hide said:


> After reading good and bad comments on the strega i'm never more confused with the Lever (or hybrids as some says) machines. I have now choices on Bezzera (Strega vs Mitica/Magica E61 vs BZ13 proprietary) and other major brands E61s which are significantly more expensive than what Bezzera can offer.
> 
> The strega is around 3-400GBP equivalent more expensive than the E61s, is the Strega worth that much more than the E61's? In this forum i'm almost poisoned by every thread talking about the Londinium, but its almost doubled (given the shipping cost to my country) the cost vs Strega. So does the Strega worth what is it being at such price point?


Have a read at the thread mentioned earlier in this thread for one view on the machine.

If you can, it would be worth testing the machines that you are interested in. For me, if you want a pump, buy a pump. If you want a lever, buy a lever. If you want to play with pressure profiles, buy a machine that offers this ability in a controlled manner.

When I got my head round spending this sort of money, saving a few hundred pounds became secondary to buying the right machine for me.


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## Hide

Thanks all for the comments! I'm living in Singapore, and funny thing here is the range of machines everyone have here are either lower(Bezzera being the cheapest semi-pro machines here) or the higher ends (LM GS3 etc.), tried the strega and yes it is difficult to pull (but not sure if it is just from a culture shock of an ex-e61 owner). Would definitely love to try a L1 but not that i'm aware if anyone shipped it here, from the spec sheet and videos I can tell the difference in the quality of the build (the poison is real).

I'm aware of the different forum followings, I've been in aussie and read the forums, there are more backing for the Izzo Leva and the Creminas and the L1 over here.

The Strega attracts me with the pricing, I think i'm more afraid of missing out in either end of the price spectrum.

I've read the reviews posted here, but I'm still not quite sure (aside from mechanical/build quality), does the Lever on the Strega have any advantage over E61s? Love to see individual comments as i know everyone have their preferences and this is why i like forum discussions!


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## coffeechap

Although the Strega has its fans over the pond, let me say this, the l1 is much more consistent in the cup, is better made, does not feel like it might tip over, does require tge ridiculous shulman squat to use it. It makes better coffee and I belive Reiss will shop to singapore


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## jlarkin

I love the fact everybody here seems to think that people can't repeatably do a task. I don't do any playing with trying to affect the pressure on the Strega but given the feats that even inexperienced people can repeatably do with instruments, hand eye coordination etc, I really think it's feasible that you could make more or less the same shot time after time even if it were with a pause midway or whatever.

I don't understand the collective agreement that seems to write this idea off.


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## Lord Fluff

coffeechap said:


> ...L1...does not feel like it might tip over,


I have to disagree about the tipping over thing - mine has never felt like it was going to tip over. All you need to do in any case if you're at all concerned is place your left hand on the unit as you pull the lever down - it's really not difficult and squatting is not required, and thinking about it I'll often use two hands on the lever when there is no pressure against the lever (so it could fly up) and still, the Strega has never shown the least sign of tipping.

And I do wish that you wouldn't say the L1 "makes better coffee" likes it's a fact.


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## Lord Fluff

jlarkin said:


> I love the fact everybody here seems to think that people can't repeatably do a task.


Exactly. And isn't the whole reason a lot of us love levers is that it gives a more personal, manual experience rather than just essentially pressing a button on an E61?


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## Mrboots2u

Any of this only matters once you have decent coffee and a small appreciation of how to actually extract the best from it. Spend more time honing you taste buds , less time arguing over a button, lever, metal, plastic or rubber machine is better


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## 4085

jlarkin said:


> I love the fact everybody here seems to think that people can't repeatably do a task. I don't do any playing with trying to affect the pressure on the Strega but given the feats that even inexperienced people can repeatably do with instruments, hand eye coordination etc, I really think it's feasible that you could make more or less the same shot time after time even if it were with a pause midway or whatever.
> 
> I don't understand the collective agreement that seems to write this idea off.


the way to alter shots, is to vary the amount of water taken into the group. Since there isn way of accurately gauging that, then is it fair assume that a bit of guesswork is involved.

I know one swallow does not make a summer, but one forum member has switched from a Strega to a Veloce and in his own words found a significant increase in the quality of shots produced.


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## jlarkin

Mrboots2u said:


> Any of this only matters once you have decent coffee and a small appreciation of how to actually extract the best from it. Spend more time honing you taste buds , less time arguing over a button, lever, metal, plastic or rubber machine is better


Or when somebody is looking to buy a machine like the person that posted a few posts back?


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## Mrboots2u

jlarkin said:


> Or when somebody is looking to buy a machine like the person that posted a few posts back?


Both - all will make good coffee


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## jlarkin

dfk41 said:


> the way to alter shots, is to vary the amount of water taken into the group. Since there isn way of accurately gauging that, then is it fair assume that a bit of guesswork is involved.
> 
> I know one swallow does not make a summer, but one forum member has switched from a Strega to a Veloce.


I've always assumed it'll deliver a consistent amount of water in a consistent amount of time?

I'm not comparing Strega with anything else 1


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## CamV6

At the risk of sounding like I'm offering admonishment to anyone here, it seems unfortunate to me that a chap happily and excitedly posts up about his new machine, receives a response that if it were me, would really take the gloss off that pleasure and joy


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## Lord Fluff

dfk41 said:


> the way to alter shots, is to vary the amount of water taken into the group.


No, that's only part of the story. You can vary the involvement of the pump to give pre infusion, full pressure etc. So, as mentioned, I've been playing with a half full pre infusion, full pressure to begin then lever finish. On this particular SO it's working a treat.

As CamV6 says though, I started a thread to swap tips with other Strega owners, only to have various others chip on with, effectively, you've bought the wrong machine, and get back to HB.....I'm a little disappointed it's true.


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## jlarkin

Lord Fluff said:


> No, that's only part of the story. You can vary the involvement of the pump to give pre infusion, full pressure etc. So, as mentioned, I've been playing with a half full pre infusion, full pressure to begin then lever finish. On this particular SO it's working a treat.
> 
> As CamV6 says though, I started a thread to swap tips with other Strega owners, only to have various others chip on with, effectively, you've bought the wrong machine, and get back to HB.....I'm a little disappointed it's true.


What do you mean by a half full pre-infusion? How's that achieved?


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## Lord Fluff

I'm just attempting to use JimS's method whereby you run the pump for a number of seconds, cut it and don't let the lever stroke commence, then kicking the pump back in, as per one of his videos


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## 4515

Just watched the video. The action of the lever seems quite vicious.

I then compared the position of the pivot point of the lever and the length of the lever arm in photos of both the Sterga and the L1 in googled images. Both look very similar.

Question to those who have owned / used both .... are the positioning / dimensions of the lever similar ? And why does the Sterga seem to want to punch you in the chin when you pull the lever ?

Is this just how the machine is operated in the video or is this normal ?

Please dont see this as knocking the machine, just the engineer in me wanting to get out


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## 4085

I think the length of the lever is a bit longer on the Sterga (from memory)


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## coffeechap

Lord Fluff said:


> As CamV6 says though, I started a thread to swap tips with other Strega owners, only to have various others chip on with, effectively, you've bought the wrong machine, and get back to HB.....I'm a little disappointed it's true.


I don't think you have bought the wrong machine, you have bought the combination that met your requirements and from your posts here and on HB on I am sure you will enjoy your purchase. I prefer the simplicity of levers, you prefer to play with different variables, I sincerely hope that you enjoy your lever journey.


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## 4085

Sorry you are disappointed. In truth, this is a forum and you are going to receive comments/feedback contrary to what you want, as well as stuff you do want. Personally, I am not knocking the Strega. I had one. But, if you compare the Strega to other machines then all you are going to get is a list of shortcomings for both machines.

Londinium, whether you like it or not have a firm grip on the global lever market and they have achieved this in a short space of time, and without the likes of Schulman, a professional coffee reviewer. By professional I suppose I mean paid to blog. I am not for 2 seconds suggesting that he is not straight as a die but he has plugged Stregas up to the hilt, resulting in popular belief that it is up there with the best of them. He failed to get as excited about the M3 to the point of open warfare.

You have made your choice, so it would seem based on views about machine that is beloved on the US coffee forums. As long as you are happy with your choice then what we thing does not matter.

I, after several years as a lever lover and owner and current owner, have just switched back to an E61 pimp machines and have had my fair share on leg pulling. Just stick to your guns and beliefs and you will be ok.

There are only a couple of active Strega owners on here unfortunately. So, the suggestion to chatter on Oz and US forums is not harsh, just sensible


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## 4515

dfk41 said:


> I think the length of the lever is a bit longer on the Sterga (from memory)


Thanks David

Does the lever want to give you an uppercut or is it just how it looks in the video on this thread ?


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Any of this only matters once you have decent coffee and a small appreciation of how to actually extract the best from it. Spend more time honing you taste buds , less time arguing over a button, lever, metal, plastic or rubber machine is better


+1


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## Hide

working dog said:


> Thanks David
> 
> Does the lever want to give you an uppercut or is it just how it looks in the video on this thread ?







I think this reviewer have shown with no restrain and pressure, how much the the lever will kick-back. Its near the end of the video.


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## Thecatlinux

Crikey a cup smashing kitchen trebuchet.


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## Lord Fluff

working dog said:


> And why does the Sterga seem to want to punch you in the chin when you pull the lever ?


As you'll probably appreciate, when you are fully loading the spring without a puck to resist the accumulated pressure, then let go, nothing is there to stop the lever returning to its normal position, at speed.

It's happened to me a couple of times and aside from the shock it induces, so long as you're operating it as intended (ie not standing directly in front), it's not an issue. But if you were daft enough to put your face in front of it then a trip to A&E would be a given I think.


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## 4085

same goes for any lever machine in fairness!


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## PuFFaH

Do you have to back flush the Strega?


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## AndyS

working dog said:


> Just watched the video. The action of the lever seems quite vicious.
> 
> I then compared the position of the pivot point of the lever and the length of the lever arm in photos of both the Sterga and the L1 in googled images. Both look very similar.
> 
> Question to those who have owned / used both .... are the positioning / dimensions of the lever similar ? And why does the Sterga seem to want to punch you in the chin when you pull the lever ?


I own both machines. Either one will punch you in the face if you're careless. Don't let a brand new user operate a spring lever without proper instruction.

The L1's deeper footprint allows a longer lever without the machine tipping over. The longer lever gives better mechanical advantage for an easier pull. When I measured the force required to cock the levers, I found the L1 needed about 10kg, while the Strega needed 50% more, approx 15kg. It is a very noticeable difference, although having either machine on a high counter makes it easier to exert the force required.

Comments on the L1:

It is far more pleasurable to operate (at least for me). Less force required, physically more stable, and relatively consistent in temperature as long as you do the quick group flush a minute or two after each shot. For me the only drawback is that preinfusion operates at only 1.3-1.4 bar, which means deeper pucks and/or finer grinds are slow to preinfuse. I assume the line pressure L1-P takes care of this issue.

Comments on the Strega:

Preinfuses better, more flexible in shot-pulling styles (are you musically inclined?) Warms up to temperature more quickly without extra flushes, etc.

Further comparison:

I believe a dedicated user will pull excellent shots with either. Of course the innovative Strega is a lot less expensive, and represents an excellent value. But for me using the L1 is so much smoother and easier that it makes the Strega seem toylike. Eric S, however, whose opinion I respect, commented that the Strega is very well built. So some of it comes down to details, and to personal taste.


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## Lord Fluff

PuFFaH said:


> Do you have to back flush the Strega?


Absolutely not - there would be nowhere for it to go!

Backflushing takes care of coffee oils that make their way into the grouphead - as such a lever doesn't really have a "head" in that sense, just a delivery chamber.


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## PuFFaH

Cheers...saved my having to ask how to fix my machine post back flush


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## 4085

Lord Fluff said:


> Absolutely not - there would be nowhere for it to go!
> 
> Backflushing takes care of coffee oils that make their way into the grouphead - as such a lever doesn't really have a "head" in that sense, just a delivery chamber.


It is not that. The lever does not have a 3 way solenoid so nothing is drawn back into the group. It still needs flushed though, but in a different way. Put a large bowl under the pf, loosen the pf, by that I mean undo it but do not remove it, leave it in situ. Then pull the handle down and waggle the pf for a few seconds.Return the lever and have a looking the bowl and see what you find! Remember though, with nothing in the puck there will be no resistance so be careful when returning the lever


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## Lord Fluff

dfk41 said:


> nothing is drawn back into the group.


....which was exactly my point.


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## 4085

Lord Fluff said:


> ....which was exactly my point.


It may be your point, but it is not what you said....perhaps yu can enlighten us all with the new information that a lever does not have a head, just a delivery chamber....I might learn something


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## Lord Fluff

What I said was that there was nowhere for a backflush to go.

Sorry if I was being free and easy with terms.


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## 4085

Lord Fluff said:


> What I said was that there was nowhere for a backflush to go.
> 
> Sorry if I was being free and easy with terms.


but, if you take off the pf, you have a shower screen. If you take that off you have a brass head. They all need cleaned. If you have not 'waggled' your pf as I described, I suggest you do it tomorrow and you maybe surprised at just how much coffee grinds miraculously appear!


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## Lord Fluff

Seems reasonable. Where are these grounds hiding then?

I'd still not call that a "backflush" mind you, but to each his own


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## Hide

Hmm.. does it means that no one should put a blind filter and pull for Lever machines to 'backflush' ?

I would expect basic maintenance would be removing shower screen and give the brass a good wipe. For lever machines, does it have the vacuum effect like E61's that will suck back some coffee while end of shots which thus requiring back flushes?


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## Lord Fluff

Indeed not which was what I was trying to say initially - a lever machine works on declining pressure such that when it reaches it's resting position at the end of shot there is no pressure at the puck, unlike an E61 which is at full pressure until you finish the shot, throwing the head contents back out the exhaust. Replace a puck with detergent and that gets pulled, or backflushed, through the system instead.

Which is not to say that no cleaning is ever needed, just not backflushing.


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## PuFFaH

That answered my question


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## 4085

Lord Fluff said:


> Indeed not which was what I was trying to say initially - a lever machine works on declining pressure such that when it reaches it's resting position at the end of shot there is no pressure at the puck, unlike an E61 which is at full pressure until you finish the shot, throwing the head contents back out the exhaust. Replace a puck with detergent and that gets pulled, or backflushed, through the system instead.
> 
> Which is not to say that no cleaning is ever needed, just not backflushing.


I agree, there is none to use chemicals in the way that you would on an E61, nor is there a need to use a blind pf. I cannot answer your question where do the grinds come from, but I can guarantee you that you are going to be very surprised when you perform the waggle move the first time. this ought to be done every 2 or 3 days. Please let us know what happens!


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## Lord Fluff

dfk41 said:


> I can guarantee you that you are going to be very surprised when you perform the waggle move the first time.


I'm sorry to disappoint you but I just did this and produced nothing but clean water into the bowl.

That said, I do pull water through after every shot, and clean the seal and screen with a brush - I'm guessing this is why there is no rubbish coming out when I do the 'waggle'.


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## PuFFaH

I just tried that also and just had clean water and pf and like Fluff I clean religiously after every brew.

I tried and over taped pf of coffee and noticed a lot of water coming out of the vent at the tray, is this a clue for flushing?


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## jlarkin

PuFFaH said:


> I just tried that also and just had clean water and pf and like Fluff I clean religiously after every brew.
> 
> I tried and over taped pf of coffee and noticed a lot of water coming out of the vent at the tray, is this a clue for flushing?


That valve letting water into the tray is the OPV - Over pressure valve - it's something like when the pressure in the machine (due to resistance from coffee in the PF and the water trying to go through) reaches a certain point, it'll vent into the tray rather than flowing back through the machine or exploding out somewhere in an uncontrolled way.


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## jlarkin

working dog said:


> Just watched the video. The action of the lever seems quite vicious.
> 
> I then compared the position of the pivot point of the lever and the length of the lever arm in photos of both the Sterga and the L1 in googled images. Both look very similar.
> 
> Question to those who have owned / used both .... are the positioning / dimensions of the lever similar ? And why does the Sterga seem to want to punch you in the chin when you pull the lever ?
> 
> Is this just how the machine is operated in the video or is this normal ?
> 
> Please dont see this as knocking the machine, just the engineer in me wanting to get out


Apart from length of lever - I don't know that - from what I read a while ago the Strega has two springs on it. I wondered if it has to be pretty forceful to counteract the amount of water it can bring into the group and the fact it has a pumped more water in than you can with other lever machines (as mentioned in the vid, it can hold more in the group chamber). Slightly more speculation than definitive but it seems to make sense to me?


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## Hide

jlarkin said:


> Apart from length of lever - I don't know that - from what I read a while ago the Strega has two springs on it. I wondered if it has to be pretty forceful to counteract the amount of water it can bring into the group and the fact it has a pumped more water in than you can with other lever machines (as mentioned in the vid, it can hold more in the group chamber). Slightly more speculation than definitive but it seems to make sense to me?


If we are to pull down the lever and immediately release it (without giving the pump much time to fill the chamber), would there be any extraction at all?

I wonder how fast does it take to fill the chamber by the pump, and whether this can vary the total volume of water that's being pulled depending on how long the pump actuates.


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## Lord Fluff

Hide said:


> If we are to pull down the lever and immediately release it (without giving the pump much time to fill the chamber), would there be any extraction at all?


Assuming you'd done the normal "pre-flush" then no.

It takes roughly 10 seconds to fill completely, so you can indeed vary total volume, or pre-infusion pressure, by timing how long the pump runs initially.


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## jlarkin

Hide said:


> If we are to pull down the lever and immediately release it (without giving the pump much time to fill the chamber), would there be any extraction at all?
> 
> I wonder how fast does it take to fill the chamber by the pump, and whether this can vary the total volume of water that's being pulled depending on how long the pump actuates.


If you release the lever too early there won't be enough pressure to extract through the puck or at least not much. Certainly releasing the lever at different times will leave a different amount of water to extract. I've never played much with differing the release of the lever


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## Lord Fluff

I think it's worth playing with the lever as a means of giving a variable amount of pre-infusion pressure, as per JimS's method (run pump for less than 10 seconds, cut pump but don't engage lever, wait for desired amount of time, restart pump, switch to lever to pull shot).

Sounds more complicated than it is and I've found is a nice way to get, say 5 BAR pre infusion for 10 seconds before starting the actual extraction.


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## Geordie Boy

Sorry to go back to the original questions but here's my opinion as an owner:

- I've read 12 mins from cold to fully heated up. Is this true?

I generally give it 15mins minimum however I have used it after 12 when in a rush. I don't do any flushes either.

- If so, how do you know exactly when it's ready?

Time does it for me. 12-15mins wait isn't a big deal for me.

- Since that is such a short period of time, do you tend to leave it on in the daytime, or on 24/7, or just turn it on and off as needed?

I just turn it on-off as needed. I have a Wemo so can turn it on for when I get home.

- Steam power is amazing but very wet for quite a while, is this normal?

Yes. I get the water as well. I just purge the steam in the driptray at the start.

- Boiler seems to fire up, albeit briefly, literally every two minutes. Again, normal?

Every couple of mins ties up with what mine does.

- Finally, any top tips for great results? Aside from "mind you don't get an uppercut"









I never played round with pressure profiling to be honest however I do let the pump work for 6s or so (really I go by the noise of the pump changing as the time isn't constant) then release the handle so it springs up. The thing I find with the Strega is that there's lots of variables in it and the important thing is to keep the routine as consistent as possible. Sorry if that all sounds a bit vague but the more you use the machine the more you'll learn its ways (and I mean that in a good way).


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## Lord Fluff

Crikey, don't apologise for actually answering my questions!









Glad you raised the Wemo - I've read mixed things about them - does it work as intended for you?

Good to hear the wet steam / active boiler things are normal - I figured they probably were but nice to know.

I'd been fiddling around with trying to get a great* shot from some Workshop coffee, and some high dose, long pre-infusion combos were getting results I liked...then chucked in some Red Brick from Square Mile, back to basics, 14g and no pre infusion or lever 'playing' - boom, delicious from the first shot. A helpful reminder not to get too involved with options at times.

* - great to my taste that is, since I'm no fan of much of the current trend for sharp, sour, aggressive profiles


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## hotmetal

I tried a Wemo but I sent it back after less than a week because it kept losing the network and/or requiring firmware updates which made no difference. After coming to a cold machine 3 or 4 out of the 5 days I had it I lost patience. However others have had no problems so in fairness it could be my Plusnet router partly to blame but I wasn't going to lash out on a pro router to get a £30 gimmick from Amazon to work. Just my one-off experience though. If it had worked it would have been brilliant in combination with IFTTT.


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## Geordie Boy

With the Strega just taking 15mins or so to warm-up I only use the Wemo to turn the machine on-off remotely so haven't set-up any timers. To that end it works fine now they've updated the Android app (previously the only annoyance was that it might crash but would always work again when reloaded).

Glad to hear you're getting shots you're happy with


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## Lord Fluff

Very very happy I have to say. I changed grinder and machine at the same time though so a lot of it is down to the HG of course, but the Strega is such a nice machine to use for all sorts of reasons.


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## alexferdi

I would say give up on this machine and upgrade to a Brewtus. I know someone who may be able to hook you up ?


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## Lord Fluff

Is my old machine for sale already then? Vesuvius on order...?


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## alexferdi

No only joking. I love the Brewtus. It's a beast!


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## Lord Fluff

Yeah I remember thinking when I bought it - this should last forever....and why would I ever buy another machine....

And let's face it, your track record on grinder upgrading isn't great ;-)


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## PuFFaH

Has anyone else had problems with the tank magnets telling lies to the machine? Every time I fill the tank from half way mark up, I get the boiler light going out and have to resort to fiddling about in the tank to reactivate the connection. Very annoying!

Not sure if I found a cure by accident though, when I use a SS milk jug to empty the tank a bit so I can get my hand in, I noticed the jug creates a contact through the water to the magnets and resets the boiler safety switch.


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