# Sowden Oscar Softbrew



## MWJB

I'm really enjoying this brewer. It has a couple of quirks - despite the stylish, home friendly looks, it's not a brewer you could easily use in a dinner party scenario...or anywhere where drips would stain. Every time you pour, the spout drips - I tend to use mine over the draining board, or lay down some kitchen roll on a work surface. Despite the superfine filter you get a fair bit of sediment (more than an Espro press), but to be honest it mostly manifests itself as a fine haze, rather than the "sandy" texture you often get from a regular French press. I'm grinding fairly coarse, I'd usually use 2 to 2.25 turns on the Lido for FP, currently at 2.5 turns.

But it does make delicious coffee and seems to impart a unique mouthfeel, fluffy? A work colleague described it as "creamy". Very soft on the mouth. Feels very different to a FP brew. At the moment regular 60g/l seems to be working just fine, unlike a French press the residual coffee isn't trapped around the grinds so there's less of a case for updosing. Initially I was preheating, but brewing from a cold start with water a minute off the boil seems to temper the acidity some.

Brew times are around 15-20mins at this coarse grind, at slightly finer grinds (2 turns - Lido recommended starting point for French Press) we're still talking 10mins+, even with a couple of stirs. Suits brewing up in the office perfectly, can be left unattended, fairly big window time-wise in the good extraction zone, stays hot & a nice quick clean up.

Apparently, it can be left to "develop"...but I've not been able to leave any coffee long enough to try that. I'll probably buy another for home, in due course, for lazy Sunday morning brews...even if they're on a Saturday...or Wednesday...


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## garydyke1

http://www.rpad.tv/2010/11/16/coffee-wars-chemex-vs-oskar-sowden-softbrew/

For anyone not familiar


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## MWJB

Finding the Sowden giving better results by dosing down slightly to 55-57g/l, coarse grind & ~30min steep.


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## tribs

Yay!!

30 min steep FTW.


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## MWJB

The first 30 min steep was an accident, but a happy one! You can get the brew time down with copious stirring, but I'm really enjoying this relaxed approach.


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## garydyke1

MWJB said:


> , but I'm really enjoying this relaxed approach.


Are you feeling OK?


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## MWJB

Ha ha, don't worry ...I have plenty of other outlets for the more fastidious side of coffee making, the Sowden is just liberating in the respect that I can start brewing, go back to my desk, take calls & e-mails, casually wander back to the kitchen 20-30minutes later to a great cup...with whole minutes, perhaps tens of minutes, of a window of opportunity to kill the brew, rather than tens of seconds. I don't know what it would take to over-extract a cup (beyond constant agitation), but I'm not there yet.


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## jeebsy

A leaflet for Sowden just fell out my latest copy of Caffeine magazine...they look pretty cool and a bit more inconspicuous than Aeropress for the office. Seem quite expensive though.


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## MWJB

About similar price to an Espro press (both this & Sowden give better clarity than regular French presses)? Far cheaper than a decent drip machine & the most consistent manual brewer I have tried (if you have patience & can manage a medium coarse/coarse, consistent grind). Bigger is better. Easy clean up.

After nearly a year since my last post on this thread, I'm finding I can grind finer & steep longer (Lido at 1.6-1.7 turns out, 45-60mins steep, add water to the pot first, then the grinds & fold in to wet).


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## CrazyH

I like the look of this - so simple, not too dissimilar in concept to the Eva solo, but this appeals to me more.

There does appear to be a "2 cup" version, can't seem to find it easily on the web, though.


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## jeebsy

http://sowdenshop.com/index.php?id_category=3&controller=category



CrazyH said:


> I like the look of this - so simple, not too dissimilar in concept to the Eva solo, but this appeals to me more.
> 
> There does appear to be a "2 cup" version, can't seem to find it easily on the web, though.


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## CrazyH

jeebsy said:


> http://sowdenshop.com/index.php?id_category=3&controller=category


Thanks, not sure how I missed that, liking the colours!

Had a espro in a cafe yesterday and it was lovely, about the same price for the small one, this is cuter but the espro stayed hot for ages. I'd lean to the smaller espro for single, but the snowden for larger quantities.


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## yvv

How does it compare with the Espro? I struggle to get anything half-decent from my Espro. The taste is always weak for my palate even after a long infusion (75g/l,medium grind on the Pharos, 30min). I drink double ristretto 90% of the time so probably FP it's not my thing. Yet I see the appeal in the method with all these coffee oils and aromas. I just want it to be more concentrated. Should I try the Softbrew?


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## MWJB

yvv said:


> How does it compare with the Espro? I struggle to get anything half-decent from my Espro. The taste is always weak for my palate even after a long infusion (75g/l,medium grind on the Pharos, 30min). I drink double ristretto 90% of the time so probably FP it's not my thing. Yet I see the appeal in the method with all these coffee oils and aromas. I just want it to be more concentrated. Should I try the Softbrew?


The more concentrated you go, the higher the TDS but you may not get into the sweetest zone (flavour tracks yield more than concentration). So I'd aim lower on the brew ratio to push extraction further. I brew at 56-57g/l in the Sowden, (50-60mins for the sweetest ones). You only get significant silt right at the bottom of the pot (adjust grind to suit) & it's quite easy to avoid with careful pouring, otherwise just a light dusting in the cup, similar to an Espro on that score.

If you want very concentrated brewed coffee, you're really looking at pulse poured drip, fine grind, high brew ratio.


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## yvv

MWJB said:


> If you want very concentrated brewed coffee, you're really looking at pulse poured drip, fine grind, high brew ratio.


Thank you. What is the best device for this method?


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## MWJB

V60 will do it, try grinding fine, a little coarser than espresso, 20g dose, pour in 4x45-55g pulses...see what you get at 140g to 180g out? You should be looking at moka pot type concentration (oh yeah...moka pots too) at the lower beverage weight....then you can coarsen up if required, to bring the concentration down.

You could even try it at 80-100g out, there won't be much acidity, or varietal character.


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## unoll

Just bought the 4 cup one of these. Tried the first batch today with a pourover grind using Rave decaff (need to get to sleep tonight). Think I used about 30ish grams fresh ground coffee, 475ml (ish again) filtered just boiled water and left it for about 8mins. I let it bloom for 30 seconds then poured the rest in and stired it. It tasted ok but not amazing, think I need to experiment more with times, go with a none decaf next time and think I might try an espresso grind. Any advice/guidance?

MWJB: How hot are you finding the coffee after 30 mins steep time? Are you reheating or just happy to have it at whatever temperature its at after 30 mins?


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## jeebsy

I'm very interested in these. Seem quite faff free for the office.


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## MWJB

unoll said:


> Just bought the 4 cup one of these. Tried the first batch today with a pourover grind using Rave decaff (need to get to sleep tonight). Think I used about 30ish grams fresh ground coffee, 475ml (ish again) filtered just boiled water and left it for about 8mins. I let it bloom for 30 seconds then poured the rest in and stired it. It tasted ok but not amazing, think I need to experiment more with times, go with a none decaf next time and think I might try an espresso grind. Any advice/guidance?
> 
> MWJB: How hot are you finding the coffee after 30 mins steep time? Are you reheating or just happy to have it at whatever temperature its at after 30 mins?


Espresso grind might be a bit too fine, but may depend on the grinder - if it clods up badly when you add the coffee that doesn't help & you'll get silt at the end, perhaps a flattening off of sweetness. I have gradually gone finer & fine, right down from French press grind & now brew with a "fine drip" grind...just coarser than espresso range (0.75-ish on the Lido).

With the smaller pot, pre heat the pot. Use that pre-heat water to establish water weight to the fill line. Add brew water first, dunk/fold in grinds gently but quickly until you just have light tan foam at the surface, put the lid on & don't stir (maybe a few gentle swirls if you get impatient). Pour off the first 1/4 cup or so at the end of steep, you get a oily, khaki layer at the very top (with French press too).

Today's brew was 55mins in the 1200g pot, 66g dose, HB Br. Passeio IMM...pretty darned perfect extraction. Coffee is hot enough to enjoy, 60-70C? And you have time to boil another kettle to preheat cups/server. Maybe taste after 40mins or so with the smaller pot? I don't reheat.

Of course, if you taste as you go, you might hit a preference spot earlier? This method gives me a cup that stays sweet until cold....if it lasts that long. ;-)


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## unoll

Yeah it seems pretty no nonsense although maybe a bit more fiddly to clean out than chucking a filter away. Colleagues were starting to give me grief about my pourover routine so this could be a good way to go if it can match the flavours I'm currently getting plus I can make enough coffee to share with them which should settle them down a bit


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## jeebsy

I'm thinking you could get this brewing in the kitchen, come back to your desk with it and pour like a fairly normal person. No pissing about flipping Aeropresses upside down and dripping everywhere.


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## unoll

MWJB said:


> Espresso grind might be a bit too fine, but may depend on the grinder - if it clods up badly when you add the coffee that doesn't help & you'll get silt at the end, perhaps a flattening off of sweetness. I have gradually gone finer & fine, right down from French press grind & now brew with a "fine drip" grind...just coarser than espresso range (0.75-ish on the Lido).
> 
> With the smaller pot, pre heat the pot. Use that pre-heat water to establish water weight to the fill line. Add brew water first, dunk/fold in grinds gently but quickly until you just have light tan foam at the surface, put the lid on & don't stir (maybe a few gentle swirls if you get impatient). Pour off the first 1/4 cup or so at the end of steep, you get a oily, khaki layer at the very top (with French press too).
> 
> Today's brew was 55mins in the 1200g pot, 66g dose, HB Br. Passeio IMM...pretty darned perfect extraction. Coffee is hot enough to enjoy, 60-70C? And you have time to boil another kettle to preheat cups/server. Maybe taste after 40mins or so with the smaller pot? I don't reheat.
> 
> Of course, if you taste as you go, you might hit a preference spot earlier? This method gives me a cup that stays sweet until cold....if it lasts that long. ;-)


Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll stick with my current pourover grind for now, up the steep time and put water in first then the filter with coffee in it. 60-70°c coffee sounds good to me so ill just have to try and be patient while the pots sat there begging to be tasted









Have you tried doing cold brews with it? If so is it a similar technique only using cold water and (much) longer steep times?


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## MWJB

No never tried cold brew of any kind. I have often left hot brew to cool, or chilled it down in the summer. It's one of those things I keep meaning to try though...

Cleaning the Sowden, knock out the bulk grinds into a bin, then put the filter with whatever is left in in it flat on the floor of the sink, flush with water from the tap and it will hold a few cm of water before it leaks out, 2 or three flushes & tips down the plughole and it should be empty?


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## unoll

MWJB said:


> Cleaning the Sowden, knock out the bulk grinds into a bin, then put the filter with whatever is left in in it flat on the floor of the sink, flush with water from the tap and it will hold a few cm of water before it leaks out, 2 or three flushes & tips down the plughole and it should be empty?


Cheers, that's pretty much what I'm doing, its just a bit more effort than chucking a filter (not alot mind), I'm trying to avoid getting grinds in the sink but if I can get the bulk in the bin it shouldn't be a problem.

I'm going to give a cold brew a go at the weekend so I'll let you know how I get on.


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## unoll

Just did a brew following your advice MWJB and its tasting much better, thanks! 5 heaped scoops (using provided scoop), water to max line, brew time of about 45 minutes. Definately getting more sweetness coming through and it's plenty hot enough. With a bit of experimentation and pushing of the steep times I'm sure this thing's a winner.


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## jeebsy

Just pulled the trigger on one of these. Hoping it'll replace the eternally disappointing Aeropress as the work brewer.


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## MellowCat

how are the Sowden owners liking it after 6 months (or more)?

these long steep times sound strange (especially when impatient at work ;-) - comparing to other full immersion methods like french press, with corresponding brew times of 4 minutes no longer

thanks for any info

/K


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## MWJB

MellowCat said:


> how are the Sowden owners liking it after 6 months (or more)?
> 
> these long steep times sound strange (especially when impatient at work ;-) - comparing to other full immersion methods like french press, with corresponding brew times of 4 minutes no longer
> 
> thanks for any info
> 
> /K


Why no longer than 4 minutes? If you can hit your preference at 4 minutes great, but you can steep longer than that in a typical French press/steeped brewer with a declining heat profile. You can take longer than 4 minutes with a pour over and still not overextract in some instances, that's whilst rinsing the grinds with fresh, hot water...just letting the grinds infuse in still water makes it very difficult to reach comparable, maximum levels of extraction (though there are peaks & troughs, flavour-wise, between lower & highest good tasting extractions).

The Sowden also contains the grinds in a chamber within the brewer, unlike an Eva Solo/French press, this higher concentration gradient around the grinds might also slow things down a little?

Had a bit of a rush on this morning at work, didn't get back to the Sowden until 2 hours after starting the steep...just delicious.


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## Phil104

I have just got a two-cup version for the office and so still experimenting with it (also not there very often to practise) but so far have been working on the basis of 15gms in the filter, using an aeropress consistency grind and leaving it for 4-10 minutes depending on what I'm up to. I'm impressed - I like what it's producing (today with Rave's Costa Rica Alma Negra).

On time, one of the things that it says on the Sowden site is that once the water temperature drops below 80 odd degrees (from memory) in effect the extraction will stop so whether it's left for 5 minutes or 50 minutes isn't significant . From your post, Mark, it sounds like it's a bit more complicated than that.


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## MWJB

Hi Phil,

Extraction doesn't stop at a given temp in a steep...it may plateau/climb very slowly after a certain point, otherwise cold brewing wouldn't work. The level at which extraction plateaus is as much related to grind size, perhaps more so than temp? MIT did some experiments in the 50's, funded by the CBI and were successfully extracting coffee at temperatures lower than 80C...obviously it takes longer at a lower temp (practicality/serving temp/preference can be an issue).

Having said that, I can't be sure how much the time in itself drives gross extraction, specifically, or drives equalisation of the brew throughout the pot. There are certainly changes in flavour taking place after 5 minutes/


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## jeebsy

I find it tastes pretty good after 6-8 minutes, then goes a bit meh, and then gets better after half an hour or so. My brewed is generally pretty shit but the Sowden works pretty well.


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## Phil104

MWJB said:


> Hi Phil,
> 
> Extraction doesn't stop at a given temp in a steep...it may plateau/climb very slowly after a certain point, otherwise cold brewing wouldn't work. The level at which extraction plateaus is as much related to grind size, perhaps more so than temp? MIT did some experiments in the 50's, funded by the CBI and were successfully extracting coffee at temperatures lower than 80C...obviously it takes longer at a lower temp (practicality/serving temp/preference can be an issue).
> 
> Having said that, I can't be sure how much the time in itself drives gross extraction, specifically, or drives equalisation of the brew throughout the pot. There are certainly changes in flavour taking place after 5 minutes/
> 
> Thanks Mark - that's interesting and makes sense as you have set it out although, as you say, there is uncertainty about the effect of elapsed time and in all of this there is an interaction between the grind, time, water cooling and the vessel itself. A year ago I never thought I would find this fascinating (and it's not because I need to get out more). If science had been taught with coffee (and tea) as the subject matter when I was at school, I'd have paid a lot more attention (and might even have enjoyed it).


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## AliC

I love my 1.8 litre Sowden. I tend to use it most when making up a big flask for going out.

I can get a pretty good brew anywhere between 15 and 40 mins steep time.

Just whack on a big tea cosy and let it do its thing. Also I've noticed the longer I leave it the cleaner the cup as the fines have a chance to settle at the bottom of the pot.

Plus it


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## Yes Row

Really interested in one of these, anybody know of any offers anywhere. I will start a search but someone may know straight off?


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## jeebsy

If they're still on eBay you can submit an offer through there, a couple of people had them accepted below asking. I got mine new direct, sent a couple of emails implying they were a bit expensive and the guy sent me a 10% off voucher


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## Mrboots2u

Yes Row said:


> Really interested in one of these, anybody know of any offers anywhere. I will start a search but someone may know straight off?


Looks like the £20 ones have gone from eBay ( these were two cup )

This is a link for £38 including delivery , it's unclear how big this one is ,mad the picture is not for a two cup and it doesn't seem to say in the description .

Drop them a mail and ask, make them an offer

The 2 cup model holds 400ml of water

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141392671803


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## Yes Row

Thanks guys...they are pricey aren't they. May hold on for a bargain or just try a dripper in the mean time

Cheeky emails going off to suppliers though


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## Phil104

Yes Row, I got my two cup version off ebay for £8.00 plus postage (used but I couldn't tell it had been). Have you saved it as a search on the bay? Whittards are selling the 1litre (James) version at a reduced price (£38.50, incl p&P)

http://www.whittard.co.uk/outlet/all-outlet/james-8-cup-coffee-pot.htm


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## dsc

Hmm it's £49 for the 4 cup / 800ml, might pull the trigger, always wanted something like this, shame it's not stainless and insulated though. Volume should be good for a big breakfast cup, or two

Do you wrap yours when brewing or just leave for 30min cooling down?

T.

EDIT. scratch the above, pulled the trigger on the 1L from Whittards, that's £38.50 with free delivery and 6% through Quidco


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> Do you wrap yours when brewing or just leave for 30min cooling down?
> 
> T.


I just preheat the 800ml version, add coffee at 92-94C. Usually leave it a bit longer than 30min.


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## dsc

Ok will experiment, this should be good to just cover and forget, which is what I often do regardless of the method

T.


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## Yes Row

Could you make less than 1ltr of coffee in the 1ltr version. I am guessing yes but just checking


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## MWJB

Yes Row said:


> Could you make less than 1ltr of coffee in the 1ltr version. I am guessing yes but just checking


You looking at the James 1l? Probably not 1l of finished coffee, you might want to pour off the first half/quarter cup (oily), last half a cup might be silty, less the water absorbed by the grinds.

The white 1.2l holds 1244g of brew water at the line, gives me 4 clean regular mugs, plus half a mug, if I'm prepared to bare a little silt (usually just a bit pruney in flavour, not sandy/gritty in the cup). The 800ml holds 820g to the line, 3 good mugs. So I'd guess around 800g-ish out from a 1l?

I weighed the first few brews to give me an average brew water weight, then worked by eye from there.


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## Yes Row

Yes looking at the James version. Just opened an account with Quidco and am just working that out, then will go for it I think. So just for clarity, I could brew half a pot if I wanted?


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## MWJB

Guess so, never tried it, preheat it if you try it.


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## Southpaw

Been thinking of one of these as an easy work option. Read this thread and just ordered a 4 pot James for £37.50


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## Southpaw

Whittards are still doing the 1l for £38.50 with an extra 12.6% available via topcashback


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## Rdl81

Excuse my stupidity but people use these to brew coffee? How to they compare to Areopress and v60


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## MWJB

Rdl81 said:


> Excuse my stupidity but people use these to brew coffee? How to they compare to Areopress and v60


Closer to French press with less silt. Very repeatable if a little slow. Sweet brews, you're not balancing input & output & flow like with a V60, but V60 is a cleaner cup & faster, but less repeatable than Sowden...you basically fill it up, add coffee & wait.


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## coffeecinado

does the water temperature at the first contact affect noticeably the result in terms of bitterness or clearity?

any significant differences of extraction rates incorporating the time factor?


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## MWJB

coffeecinado said:


> does the water temperature at the first contact affect noticeably the result in terms of bitterness or clearity?
> 
> any significant differences of extraction rates incorporating the time factor?


Much under 90C when coffee & water are combined may lead to a bitter final result (unless you kill the brew around 19/20% yield). Hotter end (95C plus) may increase acidity at a comparable yield. I aim for 23% yield (immersion mode), it takes a while to get there with a declining temp brew & the grounds being in a compartment within the brew water.


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