# Will not sell to me



## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

*Won't sell to you because you are from the USA*​
I have no bias, here you go no problem622.22%No, I won't waste my time too much trouble1037.04%You are wasting your time being here13.70%I like cake1037.04%


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

Have tried on a couple of occasions to buy things (of considerable value) but have been denied.

Let me know if this is a continued waste of time.

Forum equipment usually is of better quality, but not if only to be told you won't sell to me because I'm in the USA. I buy from the UK & other countries all the time. DHL ships, also Royal Air mail, so what is the issue? Venders usually don't have one other than liquids, as they are restricted to (some).

Give me a reply, as another forum suspended my account recently as they did not believe me and thought that I was Trolling them. Until I pasted the reply they (chastized) the thought.

Here, I'll put up a poll to see if this is a waste of time.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

When something goes wrong with shipping within the UK, or there is a dispute, this can be worked out with relative ease.

When its the US if there is damage during shipping or a dispute return shipping and communications are much more difficult and much more expensive. There is also basically zero legal recourse.

Unless you explicitly accept all responsibility for any damage or further costs and remove any further risk the seller might experience there is simply no reason for the seller to sell to you when they can wait for the safer sale in the UK.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Surely most stuff needs to be 110v too vs 220/230v or whatever? Or do you mean smaller non electric bits?


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

Do don't have insurance there when shipped? Relatively cheap.

This is how you buy stuff usually, through the mail. Regardless the source. 1 mile or 3000 all the same for the box. Just need to pack it tight for either.


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

surely there is a massive coffee culture in the US with forums and such, can you not get what you want from your side of the water ? would seem to be the logical answer.


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

jonc said:


> Surely most stuff is 110v too vs 220/230v or whatever? Or do you mean smaller non electric bits?


Both

we have converters that don't cost much


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

US is generally cheaper for - well - everything too.

Personally I would have no issue selling to the states in theory but I would have no idea about customs forms and insurance and so on.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

After having quite few (5+ maybe?) parcels went missing within the EU (including one worth over 200 pounds which was tracked&insured, phew!), I would be quite reluctant to sell something expensive overseas. The problem, as Dylan said, it takes ages to process the dispute. The fact that you have to wait at least 25 working days (5 full weeks, i.e. 35 calendar days) to claim for the compensation, it would be a little bit stressful for both sides. You could potentially have to wait nearly two months past the purchase date to get your money back!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

insatiableOne said:


> Do don't have insurance there when shipped? Relatively cheap.
> 
> This is how you buy stuff usually, through the mail. Regardless the source. 1 mile or 3000 all the same for the box. Just need to pack it tight for either.


I'm not sure if you are being wilfully ignorant.

What if something goes wrong? What if the insurance company plays hard ball and finds faults in the sellers pre-packing photos or refuses to pay? What if they dispute your valuation of the machine? what about the extra 2800 miles increasing the risk of damage in transit? What of the fact you are not a trusted member here, and no one knows wether you will lie if the item gets to you and something has gone wrong? What if you drop it and break it and blame it on the courier?

2800 miles is a big difference when you want to sort out a dispute. Sales that have had problems in the past here have seen members personally visit the buyer to help sort out the problem... are you going to buy their plane ticket?

Selling within the UK carries less risk, its as simple as that.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I wouldnt ship to the states . It may be the same as shipping in the UK, only further, but there are far more touch points which give more opportunities for the kit to be damaged.

Re. option 3 of your poll. This tends to suggest that you see the forum as a place to buy equipment from and see little or no value in the information / advice on the forum.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Guys can we keep it not personal and on topic please?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

For the record my previous post is in no way meant to be personal, the same questions and risks would apply to anyone buying from abroad and not a regular member here.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for clarification!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ive ordered a bit off coffee from the USA all hassle free . I was talking to a local roaster today ,who realted that sending stuff to the USA certainly ws not proving as easy for him ... but there you go


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Beans are probably a great deal simpler than a big machine or grinder though.


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

Well, there are dealers - not just in coffee - who can't be bothered going through the formalities, even for the EU, but they usually state "UK only" or even "UK Mainland only" which cuts out poor old Norn Iron. Other's'll do it but put in customs forms for the Isle of Wight. I don't think it's a matter of prejudice, just cost-cutting. I can remember wanting a bike saddle from a UK dealer and he wanted £10 extra to cover the faff at the post office.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I think op is discussing forum members isn't he/she?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Personally, I would consider purchasing from a company in the US, but probably wouldn't sell to a buyer in the US.

This is purely to avoid all the hassle of packaging for international freight, insurance etc etc and dealing with things when they go wrong/get mislaid.

Many sellers on here specify collection rather than shipping within the UK for the same reasons.

Maybe we could come to arrangement....

We will agree to ship items to the US if you agree not to ship Donald Trump over here.

Deal?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

NickdeBug said:


> Many sellers on here specify collection rather than shipping within the UK for the same reasons.


That's actually a really good point. I don't trust couriers to handle anything valuable from my front door to their van - let alone further afield.

Bless 'em.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

my 'other' hobby is tobacco pipes - some quite expensive

i have sold/shipped to fellow member on DGCForum in US

UK Tracking usually stops at airport of departure - after that 'good luck'

one pipe took 25days in transit

sorry IOne - never again....


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I have my Quest M3 for sale, if a US seller asked me to buy it, these thoughts go through my mind

1. I dislike shipping anything. I only sell it if it's near perfect and perfectly working and I always want the buyer to see it and be sure it's what they want.

2. Used Items in the states are usually cheaper, because they simply never had 20% VAT slapped on them (and many many online new sales in the states use methods to avoid sales tax)

3. It's a very long way for something to travel and breakable items electronics etc.. can either be damaged or go missing in transit

4. Customs declarations have to be done

5. insurance is a PITA to arrange

6. I would have to charge more to make up for the cost of converting Dollars to GBP, it's not just the exchange rate but merchant charges for doing this e.g. Paypal

7. If something goes wrong shortly after the sale, the person is a long way away, I can't help them.

8. paypal and many other payment methods except for moneygram type stuff can be reversed, huge risk for seller and no buyers in their right mind would use Moneygram type services.

All for an item I can sell (or not) easily in the UK....where the most of the money will probably end up going to charity (as did all the Christmas presents I didn't get again this year)....why would I want to go through all the hassle.


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

yardbent said:


> my 'other' hobby is tobacco pipes - some quite expensive
> 
> i have sold/shipped to fellow member on DGCForum in US
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying, every so often it gets stuck in customs..other times flys right through.

That is odd, my tracking experience has been, three days in customs (on average) then shows the entire trip. Perhaps there is some sort of disconnect between the two?


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

If it's a machine I'd be worried that there may be some water left inside that could cause problems when it freezes during air freight. Also americans tend to think that if they pay £500 to me for a product and postage/insurance that's the final bill but ( correct me if I'm mistaken ) technically speaking isn't your customs supposed to add tax on the value when it arrives in the US?

As others have said I wouldn't ideally want to post anything over here domestically as I deal with returns at work and can't believe the state some stuff that's been refused comes back to us in. Add in air freight and from what I've read another country's woeful delivery network and I'd lose the will to live I think.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

I have 3 magic beans I am willing to sell you.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes Row said:


> I have 3 magic beans I am willing to sell you.


Is this legal?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

I'm confused. Are you referring to trying to buy things on this forum? Or from UK sellers in general?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

jonc said:


> Is this legal?


yes, but you need a phytosanitary certificate to export/import


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

As an individual, i would have no problem selling to US provided it was adequately insured.

But I suspect that some commercial vendors will not sell to the US because of their fondness for litigation and some crazy case law.

Remember the lady who succesfully sued McDonalds after scalding herself with a takaway coffee?


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

NickdeBug said:


> yes, but you need a phytosanitary certificate to export/import


No you don't, they are magic!


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

risky said:


> I'm confused. Are you referring to trying to buy things on this forum? Or from UK sellers in general?


Buying on this forum, yes.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

insatiableOne said:


> Buying on this forum, yes.


I'm still confused then. Because as far as I can see, you've never expressed any interest in purchasing an item in your 8 posts in the For Sale section?


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

Have tried the Instant Message route, hope that is acceptable?


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## Jedi oh (Mar 17, 2015)

Surely it's a matter of choice for the seller. Personally, I wouldn't ship to the U.S. For the simple reason that I want things to be as easy as possible, and as previously mentioned by others there is potential grief with shipping abroad, and I like to avoid grief as much as possible. I do sympathise with you though, it must be frustrating to see good items here and know that you're unlikely to ever own any of them. But that's a small part of the forum and I would guess there's no shortage of good stuff available to you closer to home.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

insatiableOne said:


> Have tried the Instant Message route, hope that is acceptable?


If you mean Private Messages then I'd prefer all dealing was done in public in the thread, in line with the forum rules.

As for your original question, I think it has now been answered. Most people don't want to ship items at all, especially heavy and fragile coffee equipment. Your best bet is always items that are local to you. This is also where the best bargains are to be had 99% of the time as collection only massively narrows the pool of potential buyers.


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

risky said:


> If you mean Private Messages then I'd prefer all dealing was done in public in the thread, in line with the forum rules.


Understood.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I wouldnt even contemplate selling to someone outside of britain let alone the USA

Way too much handling of the parcel after it leaves intact. Id consider it just not worth the hassle.

Nothing personal.

This is about coffee equipment, if it was for a scarf or some other knitwear than it couldnt get smashed and I might consider selling you some socks


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Have had a bit of think about my answer to the above as for me, personally and dependant on what it is, the issue of location / shipping is secondary to the getting / retaining payment over any distance.

I work for a rather large global carrier and as such the issue is not of traceability, however cost may / could be prohibitive to the buyer even with staff rates as unlikely to offer to send at the same price as to the UK.

Having had dealings not so long back with paypal would look for a cast iron intermediary to hold cash ensuring no one person in possession of both goods and monies which as DaveC said above not really beneficial to either party.

On balance would prefer collection / delivery in person to the UK or some means of being the easiest to deal with, I guess faff is what makes people less inclined to send goods abroad. Have had it in reverse, used to buy some Kona direct from a grower, kona purple mountain, but it used to take ages to fill out the international paperwork at the local post office compared to sending to US addresses, so became a bit of a burden eventually ending the supply :-(

I do use "MyUS" for some items is there not something similar the other way round?

John

p.s. I like cake it just doesn't like me


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

My past and present hobbies have involved lots of gear going to and fro over the pond,but this is stuff that there's a compelling reason for doing so, chiefly price and/or availability being an issue in one or other country. Amplifiers, speaker cabinets, effects pedals, guitars, cycling stuff (curse you specialized for refusing to open up your full range of products to European distributors!), all worked out fine for me but I'd be reluctant with espresso machine or grinder even mostly because of the cost of a decent shipping service is off-putting, and once a machine is used and original packing gone it can genuinely be very high risk posting stuff that just isn't designed to be moved around much.

You guys in the US are so used to s shipping stuff that it's never worried about, but here you can drive half the length of the country for a collection if motivated enough to buy so few need to offer shipping. I have to say, I've had many, many refusals to ship outside the US too in the past when the only extra work is a customs slip, I suspect it's the 'what if's' that drive it more than practical experience.

I'd suggest that you stick by the forum rules and post in the thread itself as I'd be far less receptive to a pm given that should only be used once sale agreed in principle, and don't take offence at all - my impression from a newbie perspective is that the vast majority of people selling via this forum really want a happy buyer, there is a lot of goodwill backed up by tight rules that are well formulated to avoid the trials and tribulations that many forum ad sections become. This, in combination with the many issues already mentioned, means a face to face transaction is the natural preference.

It may be worth keeping an eye on the ads and keeping asking, but if there's anything that you really, really want then perhaps offer a premium or get creative with friends or family if that's an option, even exchange of favours with someone you don't know.... but that's all much easier as a forum regular rather than a classified lurker, just one of those modern day hard to quantify online community things.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

P.s. shame I've never anything to sell, between a close friend in Dallas and my mum being an ex US resident that maintains a wells Fargo account, I'd probably be able to sort something to overcome the payment grief.


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

I'd have no problems selling but would only accept a wire transfer for payment.

Unfortunately, as may have been said already (didn't bother reading every post), near all other methods of payment protect the buyer, especially if paying by credit card.

If the buyer used paypal for example, received the item, said it arrived broken (fraudulently in this example), told this to the credit card company or paypal, then it's the sellers responsibility to collect the item and refund the buyer. Due to the amount of fraud its very risky for the seller.

Ebay has just demanded sellers guarantee sales using their bank accounts/cards as they have lost too much to this type of fraud (likely others scams too) already.

So put the money in my bank. Once it's cleared I'll post an item.

It's still not 100% safe as you as the buyer can pay the bank extra at the outset to guarantee the money so if something goes wrong, they can return it and again the seller looses out.

If this did happen in the UK, I would simply drive to the delivery address (and inform the police) and try and get my money back. That's not so easy when the buyer is in the states.


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jedi oh;385479..................... said:


> nail on head hit....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

Having time to sleep on it.

Most if not all good coffee stuff is not made here, only the outrageously expensive commercial equipment. Many times I buy directly from the buyer. Sometimes from second party individuals. Quit a bit of gear is made somewhere in the EU, or of recent the orient are producing some great little custom roasters. Try to source one here... Not very likely. Never heard of Londinium until visiting this forum, don't know or heard of anyone having one.

It it is not even remotely feasible for me to drive across my state, little less across the US. The fuel cost would be astronomical, let alone the time in days to do such. Not to mention wear and tear on my vehicle greatly hurts the value.

It is just a simple fact that a vast majority of Americans buy online. We have a great efficient currier services. Buying something made overseas is not supporting my economy here. It is just making a second party individual I have to go through rich. Better to source my own wares instead.

If if I can buy an item for half price, say a German grinder for instance. You wanting half price of that originally paid. That item may cost me $100 to have it shipped minus insurance. That is laughable at best for me, I just save hundreds if it cost more here. There is no sales tax, or VAT... The seller already paid that upon initial purchase. Also no customs forms the carrier service does all their paperwork.

If if you have your original packaging (I always keep mine in the attic) it was made to ship and arrive intact or no one would buy at any given leanghth, just toss it in another box & charge a bit more for currier fees.

I do not feel the need to go into this any further.


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## AL1968 (May 3, 2015)

Late entry to this but I've bought and sold on line in USA, mostly shaving gear,with no problems. Some of this can be quite expensive, some old Gillette's and straight razors are over £500 pounds. The worst place to ship for me is Italy (sorry Italy!). Things go missing frequently,my worst experience being a set of 7 day straight razor valued at over £1000, sent to Italy which got damaged, fortunately I'd taken insurance. Obviously any imports would be liable for customs duty (although some get through without!!)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Power might be a bigger issue than you anticipate.

Also, dry your eyes.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

I know it is confidential but it fits here; found this in My inbox.

*K30 *

Looks like it may have had a hard life? trying to figure out how old, did you buy it new? Just wanting to know what I'm getting into.

Want a Ek43 just can't justify the cost yet.

Play Stupid Games?..Win Stupid Prizes.

My Answer;

Re: K30

You are in the USA?

I do not send to the USA! To many restrictions, to much trouble! Sorry

Regards, Adriaan

The answer from . . .

Re: K30

Wow, sorry


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

America as awash with K30s.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

If someone from the US offered to buy an item from me, pay bank transfer and arrange the courier themselves plus agree that after taking photos and video of the machine in working condition that any damage in transit or problems down the line was their responsibility to deal with exclusively then I would sell to them.

If the responsibility for risk was shared in any way, like it is when I sell in the UK, I wouldn't consider it.

Why are you not a member of Home Barista? They buy, sell and discuss specialist coffee equipment, including the Londinium.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> America as awash with K30s.


or

America is awash with K30s. ?


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