# November LSOL - Workshop Coffee Co.



## NickdeBug

Evening all

I am delighted to say that this month's submission will be from Workshop Coffee.

Due to an imminent premises move roasting is likely to be w/c 23rd November. Workshop have a superb reputation and I am sure you will all agree that it will be worth the wait to get your hands on these beans.

There will be guest slots available. Final number to be confirmed (depending on level of interest).

Apologies for the delay. Boots suggested giving you all plenty of notice so that you can always top up if running low.

More to follow...


----------



## Mrboots2u

@NickdeBug do you want us to express guest spit interest here

If so I am in


----------



## NickdeBug

Why not.

Form a queue behind Martin for the guest spit


----------



## drude

I'm interested in a guest slot too, please


----------



## Mrboots2u

Guest spots - price tbc 500g

Copy and paste

1.mrboots2u


----------



## Blackstone

Me too please


----------



## frandavi99

Yes please

1. MrBoots2u

2. Frandavi99


----------



## Blackstone

1.mrboots2u

2.Frandavi99

3. Blackstone


----------



## frandavi99

Lol this thread is going to need some tidying up. I knew the interest would be high but that's some speedy posting!


----------



## drude

1.mrboots2

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude


----------



## Mrboots2u

1.mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude


----------



## jeebsy

Great work on this one, Nick


----------



## Blackstone

drude said:


> 1.mrboots2
> 
> 2. Blackstone
> 
> 3. frandavi99
> 
> 4. drude


Cheers. Phone too slow and i cocked this up


----------



## risky

Guest Slots - Price TBC - 500g

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5. risky

Amazing work @NickdeBug Workshop are top tier roasters!


----------



## NickdeBug

Okay - for clarity, there are likely to be 10 guest spots.

If interest is really high then I can see if this can be extended, but assume that anyone adding their name beyond 10 is on a reserve list.


----------



## Mrboots2u

1.mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky


----------



## Heligan

1.mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan


----------



## 4515

Sounds like we're in for a good coffee - I must've known the beans may be delayed as I ordered some extra beans last night - worth the wait


----------



## paul whu

1.mrboots2

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5. paul whu


----------



## GlennV

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV


----------



## Mrboots2u

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu


----------



## paul whu

1.mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7 paul whu


----------



## Mrboots2u

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu


----------



## JGF

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5. risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

Fantastic Nick - very excited about these


----------



## paul whu

bllx. damn technology,,,,,

i only want 1 slot..... sorry


----------



## Rhys

Looking forward to these.. Don't suppose there are any hints of tasting notes?


----------



## Mrboots2u

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF


----------



## Wobin19

Can some one add me to the guest slot slot list please?


----------



## Mrboots2u

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.


----------



## fluffles

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2.

3.

4.

5.


----------



## fluffles

Damn and blast tapatalk!

Edit - ah, I fixed it. Carry on!


----------



## Jon

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3.

4.

5.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4.

5.


----------



## risky

These guys have got a brand new Probat P25 too. Good times.


----------



## Gerrard Burrard

I really enjoy Workshop's beans but sometimes baulk at their prices. A kilo for £20 is fantastic. Nice work @NickdeBug


----------



## CamV6

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4. CamV6

5.


----------



## Phil104

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4. CamV6

5.Phil104

Blast work that means I can't spend hours on the Forum


----------



## simontc

Dang.... Too late to gets me name in


----------



## jlarkin

simontc said:


> Dang.... Too late to gets me name in


There wasn't a limit on the reserve list, might be worth adding yourself as you never know?


----------



## simontc

Tapatalk = poo poo. Reserve list me please someone?


----------



## Mrboots2u

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4. CamV6

5.Phil104

6. simontc


----------



## reneb

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4. CamV6

5.Phil104

6. simontc

7. reneb


----------



## paul whu

Will I transfer £12 to anyone or shall I wait to be asked?


----------



## Mrboots2u

paul whu said:


> Will I transfer £12 to anyone or shall I wait to be asked?


Wait to be asked please as price had not been confirmed yet ; see post 5


----------



## Dunk

Love workshop. Used to be my local!

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4. CamV6

5.Phil104

6. simontc

7. reneb

8. Dunk


----------



## Mrboots2u

Payment details have gone out to the first 10 guest slots today

Just waiting to hear back from the roasters as to how many reserve slots can be filled also - when i know ill send out payment details to those people also

Last word from Nick was that there are looking to roast and dispatch next week

Cheers


----------



## hotmetal

When does the next 'quarter' (or whatever) start up again Nick/Martin? I won't try to jump in now but might sign up for the next full round of LSOL having done DSOL earlier.


----------



## Drewster

Mrboots2u said:


> .......looking to roast and dispatch next week ......


Oooooooooooooooooooo [Rubs hands]


----------



## Daren

Can someone bung me on the reserve list please (not that I've got much chance







)

How did I miss this thread?


----------



## NickdeBug

Quick update,

There are currently 16 guest slots confirmed.

I will try and extend this up to 20 but no promises.

Roasting next week folks and Rich tells me it's going to be good!


----------



## Daren

1. mrboots2u

2. Blackstone

3. frandavi99

4. drude

5.risky

6. Heligan

7. GlennV

8. Paul whu

9. JGF

10. Wobin19

Reserve guest list below now please

1.fluffles

2. jonc

3. hairy_hogg

4. CamV6

5.Phil104

6. simontc

7. reneb

8. Dunk

9. Daren


----------



## 4515

NickdeBug said:


> Quick update,
> 
> There are currently 16 guest slots confirmed.
> 
> I will try and extend this up to 20 but no promises.
> 
> Roasting next week folks and Rich tells me it's going to be good!


great timing for me

I have enough beans to last me another three weeks or so

Havent tried workshop beans before but seen good things said about them


----------



## Jp19810

Daren said:


> 1. mrboots2u
> 
> 2. Blackstone
> 
> 3. frandavi99
> 
> 4. drude
> 
> 5.risky
> 
> 6. Heligan
> 
> 7. GlennV
> 
> 8. Paul whu
> 
> 9. JGF
> 
> 10. Wobin19
> 
> Reserve guest list below now please
> 
> 1.fluffles
> 
> 2. jonc
> 
> 3. hairy_hogg
> 
> 4. CamV6
> 
> 5.Phil104
> 
> 6. simontc
> 
> 7. reneb
> 
> 8. Dunk
> 
> 9. Daren
> 
> 10. JP19810


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Just paid


----------



## Phil104

I'm pleased to be guest slotted - have enjoyed every Workshop coffee that I have had.


----------



## Mrboots2u

For clarity first 6 on the reserve list have been secured . Waiting to hear from the roaster if they can accommodate the last 4


----------



## fluffles

payment sent - thanks for organising!


----------



## Blackstone

paid


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok sorry to disappoint roaster could only provide enough for 16 guest slots

So he last four @reneb @daren @dunk @Jp19810 will not have coffee this time . @simontc @glennv @jonc can you check your pm I need info form you


----------



## Jon

Thanks Martin.


----------



## simontc

@Mrboots2u ... Will pay when I get home later this evening (cant delete pm's from crapatalk to reply) . Also, same address as dsol


----------



## NickdeBug

Okay - great news for the previously unlucky four, Rich has confirmed that there is enough to cover all 20 guest slots! @Mrboots2u will send through payment details but please respond with addresses and payment *as soon as you can*.

This is being roasted tomorrow for shipment at Thurs/Fri so need to know where to send them!

@reneb @Daren @Dunk @Jp19810


----------



## reneb

excellent news, big fan of workshop so really looking forward to this.

just paid and pm'd my address to martin.

thanks to nick and martin for sorting this.


----------



## Jon

Yeah thanks for arranging.


----------



## Daren

Woo hoo!!!! All paid up. Thanks for doing what you do


----------



## Mrboots2u

@simontc @Dunk

Please check your pm's .


----------



## Mrboots2u

simontc said:


> @Mrboots2u ... Will pay when I get home later this evening (cant delete pm's from crapatalk to reply) . Also, same address as dsol


Just seen this , get the address across to me tonight please if possible


----------



## simontc

Pm me your email @Mrboots2u


----------



## Dunk

Payment sent.

Thanks


----------



## risky

Oh man I have so much coffee already but looking forward to this!


----------



## Jp19810

All paid and address sent.

Thanks for arranging, really looking forward to this.

Jon


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok we are all go

Roaster Paid

Addresses sent

thanks to the last 4 @Dunk @daren @JP19810 @reneb for sorting at such short notice tonight


----------



## risky

Woooohoooo


----------



## Rhys

Better clear another shelf in my cupboard!


----------



## simontc

Excite


----------



## NickdeBug

Before anyone asks: resting info, recommended recipes, tasting notes, will all be included in the pack thanks to the uber-efficient guys at Workshop.

But they will be sent out with no bean info for blind tasting!

I know that Rich is checking in on this thread from time to time (and will hopefully find the opportunity to comment), so I just wanted to say a big thanks for all his help and participation in this month's roast.

Hope that you all enjoy!


----------



## aaroncornish

Thanks for sorting guys! Looking forward to these beans


----------



## simontc

No tasting notes is what I wanna hear!


----------



## NickdeBug

You don't have to read them!









By the way, Workshop are not believers of omni-roasting and think that a roast profile should be based on how it will be used.

After extensive research it was concluded that the majority of members go for espresso and therefore it has been roasted with this in mind. Obviously this does not prevent anyone having it as brewed, and I am sure that it will still be extremely tasty.


----------



## simontc

... We'll see about their lack of omni roasting. Muahahahaha.


----------



## fluffles

NickdeBug said:


> By the way, Workshop are not believers of omni-roasting and think that a roast profile should be based on how it will be used.


Boo hiss... let's hope it stands up to filter all the same (many "filter" profile coffees make decent espresso)


----------



## Jon

fluffles said:


> Boo hiss... let's hope it stands up to filter all the same (many "filter" profile coffees make decent espresso)


I bet you'll make better filter with it than I do espresso!


----------



## NickdeBug

I will see if Rich can offer some input on the whys and wherefores behind their decision making. Obviously an interesting area for discussion.

Whatever they do, they seem to do it pretty well so I am happy to trust what I am told.


----------



## Mrboots2u

fluffles said:


> Boo hiss... let's hope it stands up to filter all the same (many "filter" profile coffees make decent espresso)


In sure it will make great coffee way.


----------



## fluffles

Bear in mind this is lsol so I think we can expect a fairly light roast


----------



## NickdeBug

Workshop are fully aware of the brief and were given total freedom to come up with something tasty to meet it.

let's see what it tastes like on arrival and continue the debate from there.


----------



## risky

I've split the majority of the roast profile posts into another thread here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27992-Espresso-Filter-Roast-Profile-vs-Omni-roasting

Obviously we can discuss our opinions of this particular roast profile in this thread and use the other one for more general discussion.


----------



## NickdeBug

Update from Workshop:

Beans went in the post today, so should be with you tomorrow or possibly Saturday. Royal Mail will be the heroes or villians in that particular play.

You lucky people will be the recipients of an exclusive!

The first beans offered to the public from Workshop's new Probat P25 in their new roastery space!

Rich will check in on the thread next week to see if there are any questions and to offer his thoughts on roasting profiles for different brew methods.

Thanks to Rich and all at Workshop for sorting this out for us.

Enjoy


----------



## Mrboots2u

Super cool Nick, real coup


----------



## Daren

Super excited now


----------



## Wobin19

I can't wait!


----------



## Phil104

And presumably it will be in the new look bags.


----------



## jkb89

Any room for sign ups? =)


----------



## Mrboots2u

jkb89 said:


> Any room for sign ups? =)


Nope not for this one , its full


----------



## Daren

jkb89 said:


> Any room for sign ups? =)


That boat has sailed unfortunately


----------



## risky

NickdeBug said:


> The first beans offered to the public from Workshop's new Probat P25 in their new roastery space!


This is amazing. I followed this closely and wondered if we would be the first folks to get beans from the new roaster. Amazing that it has happened.


----------



## Drewster

jkb89 said:


> Any room for sign ups? =)


Gotta love a trier!!


----------



## MSM

They have arrived!


----------



## NickdeBug

MSM said:


> They have arrived!


nice!









a photo for us poor wage-slaves at work?


----------



## JGF

Some seriously classy packaging from WS:

























Thanks again to Nick & Boots for organising!


----------



## aaroncornish

Mine have arrived too


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Same here, 7-9 day rest started...

Thanks for letting me have a guest spot and for organising this.


----------



## Jon

Mine too; cheers


----------



## fluffles

Do you think it's ok to cup before the resting period is up?


----------



## Beanosaurus

*Obligatory post about missing out on this*


----------



## risky

Nice touch!


----------



## risky

And I love the bit under the brew recipe. "Based on our results, with our equipment and water. Don't take it as gospel"


----------



## jtldurnall

Really looking forward to tucking into these!


----------



## Dallah

Mine have arrived but in different packaging. Mine was a brown cardboard box. All the branding was there as well as the inserts. Wonder why that is? Anyway it sounds good. I've stock in so I can rest it the suggested days.

Shall I spoil the Region and Country mystery? The variety BM139 makes it quite simple to solve even with a cursory Google.

Actually I may have been too smug. I'm sure I have country but undecided now about region.


----------



## johnealey

Mine arrived too and packaging different for 1Kilo and 500g lots, (mine brown cardboard, had a postcard in the top too which may provide a "hint" as to origin)

Wonderful smells ( seem to having an olfactory week this week!)

Thanks all for organising

John


----------



## MSM

Yes also different packaging...


----------



## Dallah

Oh I see. Didn't realise some had only taken 500g. That explains it.

I had Zeebo the Wonder Dog check the package first. You can't be too careful these days.

View attachment 18011


----------



## simontc

Me oh my- what lovely packaging! Definitely sets a 'tone' in line with the workshop brand. Good work thus far!


----------



## Daren

risky said:


> Nice touch!


Not sure I like being sandwiched between Cam and Drude









Can't wait to get home from work now!!


----------



## Gerrard Burrard

I'm not sure when I became Gerard Butler, although I'm often told there's a strong likeness


----------



## frandavi99

Mine arrived at work today. Think my co-workers were a little disturbed by how excited I got; easily the happiest I was all day.

No way I'll be able to hold out for another 7 days and let it rest but I'll make sure I don't drink it all before then.


----------



## drude

This is seriously classy. Well, except for being next to Daren.

A great surprise to come home to today - Workshop have raised the bar


----------



## Wobin19

And mine arrived too thank you Workshop and Boots. Currently smashing my way through some other rather lovely Workshop beans - Githiga AB Kenyan.


----------



## Rhys

Got mine as well, nicely packaged - very compact in comparison to the other delivery I had (the box from which has tidied my cupboard space up..)

I think I've got enough coffee now for a few days..


















And my now tidy cupboard shelf..










Had to open a packet and have a good sniff.. Mmmm..

So 7 days for espro, how many for pourover or is that the same waiting time?


----------



## Greenpotterer

No problem letting mine rest for at least another day.It's at the Post office again









Gaz


----------



## paul whu

Nice packaging indeed. Another week resting for espresso about right?


----------



## Phil104

Mine arrived as well - black box, black bags, light mood - many thank Nick and MrBoots - a treat.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Mines here ... Lovely presentation ... Now to wait


----------



## Rdl81

..


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok roasted 24th-25th-26th-27th-28th today is 29th . So nearly 6 days . I need to open a bag to split for some people on the Facebook group anyway - so after lunch I'm going in


----------



## frandavi99

Being a rebel I've opened mine and had my first brew; V60. 18g to 300g all in after 30sec bloom and done in just over 3 minutes; really tasty. I'm gonna go for plums but I'm not good at descriptors and don't eat many plums. Promising first go. Anyone else?


----------



## Gerrard Burrard

I couldn't resist either. Chemex: 30g to 500ml. 4 mins 45 secs (think I'll slacken the grind a wee bit next time). Stewed red fruits (possibly plums), medium body. Very nice indeed.


----------



## NickdeBug

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok roasted 24th-25th-26th-27th-28th today is 29th . So nearly 6 days . I need to open a bag to split for some people on the Facebook group anyway - so after lunch I'm going in


What's the first impression Mr Boots?


----------



## Mrboots2u

NickdeBug said:


> What's the first impression Mr Boots?


Needs more rest ...

Shot ran too quick - as grind wasn't right . I'd still say it needs a couple of days .

This is a great case in point though . I think this is going to deliver tasty fruits and balance on the cup .

Is it " light roast " not especially ( I'm not saying it's dark either don't worry ) look at the pics . Is this a bad thing - not at all ... Just can show how describing stuff by colour isn't always helpful


----------



## Rhys

Tempted to do a pourover now. Then see how it develops over the resting time.


----------



## risky

Yeah some of that Barn gear was similar in colour. Gives you a bit of a fright to begin with but then you realise the colour is virtually meaningless.

Reckon I'll Aeropress this in the morning.


----------



## Rhys

What recipe for pourover is recommended? Just done 15/350 30g/30s bloom and all in for 1m30s finishing on 5m30s

Gettiing fruitiness the more it cools.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Rhys said:


> What recipe for pourover is recommended? Just done 15/350 30g/30s bloom and all in for 1m30s finishing on 5m30s
> 
> Gettiing fruitiness the more it cools.


Do your normal pourover and adjust the grind to find a balance int he cup


----------



## risky

Mrboots2u said:


> Do your normal pourover and adjust the grind to find a balance int he cup


BOO common sense and hard work







We demand easy answers!


----------



## simontc

Having approached my dsol today I am going to give lsol a go on the morrow...


----------



## Nod

Mine arrived yesturday. Everyone was right this is a really lovely package to receive. beautiful packaging and put together with a huge amount of care and attention. Beans smell amazing and I can't wait to get into these.


----------



## fluffles

I've just put it through Kalita Wave. Ground on Lido3 and brewed 15g/[email protected] in 2:45. I measured the EY at 18.83%, so a bit on the low side.

Whilst hot I was getting cocoa and the odd whisp of spice. As it cools it has a sort of buttery aroma and the mouth feel is really silky smooth. A fruity acidity does start to come through but it isn't super bright by any means.

Everything is quite restrained but well balanced. I will push the EY next time and see if has more to give.


----------



## simontc

That buttery nose seems like a bang on in speo too... I had a flat with it this morning. 18-> 33s -> 36. I felt a lemony nose to the beans, orange in the milk with a grapefruit end.... I have a raging cold though (and a distinct case of internal isolation from senses following a loud gig yesterday) so could be skewed. Will continue to play


----------



## Mrboots2u

Anyone else making shots with it yet


----------



## Phil104

No&#8230;. I'm having a very quiet coffee week with full-on days and not working at home until Friday so it's going to be the weekend before it gets the lever treatment.


----------



## Jon

I'm having a go. Will report tomorrow!


----------



## simontc

Heading to the post office now and will dive bomb some spro when back home. Snottiness abating so may be able to pick up a bit more. Im looking forward to brewing it... Night shifts this weekend, perfect aeropressing hours.


----------



## johnealey

Just tried this in the Behmor brazen: 58g/L at both 500g and 1000g of waitrose essential, 93C with a 30 second bloom, 7 and a smidge out from closed on Lido 3. Sweet as cools a bit and really seems to "bloosom" as gets around the 50C mark all the way down to about 40C, no milk. Fruity yes, just can't pick anything out yet

No refrac but getting a slight acidic feeling so may be under extracting? very nice thought and will wait a couple more days before going espresso with it.

John


----------



## Jon

Had a lovely couple of espresso based drinks today...

Don't ask me to describe flavours, but was good!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Espresso getting mix of citrus with a balanced a grapefruit like finish ( this was at nominal high extraction levels )

Again it's not sours or overly acidic there is sweetness balancing it out

It's a delicate one . Enjoying but finding it hard to pin down exact notes too

In milk > butterscotch and hints at citrus ?????


----------



## simontc

Ok... Spro im getting a bit of a red fruitiness that disappears when cools. Theres a malty smell and taste too. As we cool orange becomes more pronounced, with that grapefruit finish. Malt still there and an astringency that reminds me of the gentle dryness of plums or cherries or blackberries- not the flavour of these, but the way it affects the mouth (boots picked that up to I think). Maybe a bit hoppy, but that might just be me. Buttery still too. Milk mellows it, really brings out the orange. Malt still there. Yum.


----------



## simontc

Butterscotch is a good 'un boots! That maltiness that im picking up is that.

In truth im thinking the flavours are pretty prominent- hard London water saving the day?


----------



## jlarkin

Behmohr Brazen brewed 42g coffee, 630ish water (was knackered and forgot exactly how much before brew finished). It's not setting my world on fire but it's pretty good. I think it's tasting a bit like stewed fruit, nothing to clear coming through and a hint of acidity. Looking forward to trying as espresso probably tomorrow


----------



## Wobin19

I tried this a couple of days ago and found it was a little too subtle. Not unpleasant, just a bit underwhelming to my tastes. Today I gave it another go. I went 19.5g in, 32 out in 30. Its a completely different coffee now and i had to check I had used the right bag! Really like this. Some stewed fruit, slight lemony finish, but well balanced with a creamy mouthfeel. This is the first time I have noticed such a change in a short time, I reckon this may still have more to give and will be interesting over the next few days.


----------



## risky

I'm getting a lemon kind of acidity fading into grapefruit. Very interesting this one, for a minute I think it's going to taste sour but then it levels out and is really balanced. This is in v60 and Aeropress.

Not tried spro yet.


----------



## simontc

Off to the old nightshift grindstone- aeropress and beans in the bag and ready....


----------



## simontc

So, first press of the evening. I now see what you guys have said about lack of flavour. 20 min steep, 13.5 g, 6 clicks down from my spro setting.

Might fine up a bit- I am getting a lemonadey type feeling with it having cooled; if I can push this I'll be chuffed


----------



## Mrboots2u

Anyone else into this yet ?


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Phil104 said:


> No&#8230;. I'm having a very quiet coffee week with full-on days and not working at home until Friday so it's going to be the weekend before it gets the lever treatment.


Same here, been away all week so will be V60ing it in the morning then will try an espresso after I have taken my son to football.


----------



## johnealey

Went to 30g and 500g waitrose / volvic mix in the brazen @93c and 30 sec infusion, much more body and fruity without the excess acid at 28g, who'd have thought!

Still not espresso'd yet might save for later.

John


----------



## simontc

Anymore notes @Mrboots2u ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

simontc said:


> Anymore notes @Mrboots2u ?


C#


----------



## Phil104

Still not there yet&#8230; looking like Sunday to prise it open.


----------



## simontc

Mrboots2u said:


> C#


Oh you....


----------



## simontc

14g- 240mls. Finer grind (by two clicks) and shorter brew time (10 mins). Increased grapefruit flavour; definitely got a puckering acidity to it. Maybe blood orange too? In fact, some of the hoppiness i picked up in spro in there with this cup. Quite warm in flavour; thickness to the taste. That stewed fruit comment someone made definitely springs to mind.

Good, but i think I want something a big more 'sparkling' from this bean in the aeropress. Let me reduce dose to 13g to see what's we get. I'll keep ten mins as steep time.


----------



## jlarkin

Espresso, 18, 40 in 29s. Tasted very acidic, was really evocative of grapefruit to me. Not much fruit coming through.

Aeropress, 12.7 (last I'm planning to brew so didn't add more), 200g water and 5 min steep. Still good acidity, seemed pretty thin on flavours but was OK shame I didn't get my stewed fruits back, think that would have been great


----------



## paul whu

Metallic saffron and lemon acidity up front giving way to a chalky praline smoothness. Lingering aftertaste. Interesting and quite delicious. Only tried it as espresso at 1>2 ratio in 32 seconds. Had to significantly tighten the grind to dial these in. My visiting brother in law who has the odd espresso from the High Street and has no geeky leanings toward coffee couldn't cope with the acidity at all. I guess it is an acquired taste thing. Big thumbs up from me. Later I will try a Sowden and see what occurs.


----------



## simontc

Scales stopped working so didn't get to try out the next step... Bloody things So temperamental atm!


----------



## jeebsy

simontc said:


> Anymore notes @Mrboots2u ?


"Apples, washing up liquid, milk"


----------



## Mrboots2u

Was getting a rhubarb like juicy note to the end of the espresso this morning ( put a bit more water through the shot by accident )


----------



## NickdeBug

Okay - just cracked into these today.

As espresso -

18g in 32g out in 34 seconds using Waitrose Essential @ 94C, 8 second pre-infusion.

Lovely almond/marzipan sweetness on the nose.

Big hit of stone fruitiness at the front of the palate with some really juicy citrus/gooseberry acidity. Nice mouthfeel.

Acidity is slightly out of balance with the sweetness, but I think that might come when I dial these in a bit better.

I wouldn't describe these as overly delicate as espresso. Will give them a try as Aeropress and see what they come out like.


----------



## simontc

jeebsy said:


> "Apples, washing up liquid, milk"


I likes Dem notes jeebsy!

Just sproed; grapefruit is extremely prominent now. Definitely agree its acidity is unbalanced- in a good way though


----------



## fluffles

I did my first spro with these today. I went 14.5g > 33g > 5s pre-infusion 38 sec extraction (I don't usually go much beyond a 1:2 ratio and this ran perhaps for longer than ideal).

I still get a sweet buttery aroma as I did in brewed, something approaching a werther's original. I also get the same silky smooth mouthfeel. I got a hint of some sweet fruits initially but it quickly goes and in comes a big astringent sort of acidity that is definitely grapefruit-like... it's similar to that quinine element of tonic water and beer hops, and has a similarly drying effect. On one of my sips I thought I got a bit of almond/marzipan but I didn't detect it again. Overall I thought it lacked a lot of sweetness that I like in a good espresso. In the long aftertaste (like 15mins+ later), I thought there was a little orange which reminded me a bit of marmalade. Whilst I like grapefruit as a flavour I found it really dominant and not balanced by anything else.

My instincts are telling me to extract a bit more as the acidity was pretty high and it didn't seem to me to be over-extracted, but it is not usual for me to go to a higher ratio and the suggested recipe from Workshop is for a shorter ratio. But I'll go with my instinct as I think it's the only way, so next time I'll be going coarser on the grind to bring the time down a bit and looking to push a bit more water through.


----------



## simontc

Anyone honing in on origin yet?


----------



## risky

simontc said:


> Anyone honing in on origin yet?


They gave it away a bit with the postcard in the pack...

And putting the varietal on the pack...

But I wouldn't have been able to guess otherwise. Not that I am any good at deducing these things anyway.


----------



## simontc

I haven't looked at postcard


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

I am drinking my second V60 of this. Definitely a subtle hint of grapefruit at the beginning which slowly goes towards what I think is a subtle taste of prune as the drink cools. 18g 330g 2m 40s 2.5 on the feldgrind. Not tried is via the Gaggia yet although I made the wife a latte with it yesterday and she was not that impressed.


----------



## frandavi99

Been drinking this as long blacks; still get something a bit plummy at the start but it's pretty quickly overtaken by the acidity that increases as it cools up to those grapefruits people are talking about. It gets quite sour but I don't mind that. I love that in the cup it's all about that acidity but it is a bit overpowering and unbalanced. Usually put that down to my inability to hit the sweet spot though.

As a V60 I can't find the acidity, mainly because it goes in a zojirushi to take to work and that tends to take the edge off most things.

Overall really nice.


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Just had this in milk, espresso + 200 milk, and for me it is starting with the same kind of taste as the v60. Starts a little grapefruity then goes malty


----------



## Mrboots2u

Getting a jammy quality at the start - plummy , then grapefruit and rhubarb on the finish ..

Still balanced for me .. those that want to try something else , try dropping the extraction temp on the spro a little

If you cant then use a cool pf and a big unheated cup to extract into .

In milk - i am getting butterscotch - malty flavour - nice


----------



## Rhys

Mrboots2u said:


> Getting a jammy quality at the start - plummy , then grapefruit and rhubarb on the finish ..
> 
> Still balanced for me .. those that want to try something else , try dropping the extraction temp on the spro a little
> 
> If you cant then use a cool pf and a big unheated cup to extract into .
> 
> In milk - i am getting butterscotch - malty flavour - nice


Might try that, as not particularly fond of this one at the mo (and I like grapefruit..) I did think about (daftly maybe) adding a drop of cold water to the pf before inserting it.


----------



## fluffles

I've pulled a few shots today and my prior instinct was completely wrong, it was better at a shorter ratio. I did 14.5 into 36 and the grapefruit was really overpowering. At 14.5 into 27 it was a bit calmer and better for it. Still not massively keen if I'm honest, though I could try and go a couple of grams shorter


----------



## Mrboots2u

@fluffles try going a little bit finer - keep ratio same


----------



## fluffles

Mrboots2u said:


> @fluffles try going a little bit finer - keep ratio same


So effectively the same ratio in a longer time? As a matter of interest what's your theory here?


----------



## Mrboots2u

fluffles said:


> So effectively the same ratio in a longer time? As a matter of interest what's your theory here?


That it will taste different .

Increase the strength and body

Extraction yields increases

You may like it .

I went a bit finer and got little bit Moore jammy mouthfeel and perceived sweetness

But ultimately your mouth may feel different about it


----------



## simontc

Curveball- in some milk today I was getting a morph from grapefruit into dark choc and back in the after taste. Other stuff all still there too.


----------



## risky

What I originally declared as butterscotch I now think I am getting more of a tablet (so think condensed milk) vibe off this morning's aeropress after the fruityness had gone.


----------



## simontc

Ok. Aeropressed night shift special.

12 grams, 3 clicks down from my spro setting for this bean.inverted. 50g boiling water, bloom 20 secs (5 secs turbulent wiggle). Top up with same kettle of water (so just off boil by this point) to 240 g water in. 2 secs wiggle. Cap on. Left for 16 mins. Tufned and left for 3 to settle grinds. 1 min slow plunge.

Melted butter mouth feel, sensual and embracing. Dark fruits, redcurrants and plums. Sparkling lemon and grapefruit as cools. Picking up a sliver of dark choc too.

Long lasting grapefruit finish, though acidity really tamed by fineness of grind/slightly lowered dose.

Couple mins after finish im picking up the butterscotch/malty taste again along with the grapefruit. Cascade hops in here.

A good, mega balanced, cup. Very lascivious; a sultry sip, exciting and soothing. Real depth of flavour and massively noticeable changes throughout cooling, sipping and finish

Yum.


----------



## 4515

Just finished my last bean so dropping a bag of LSOL in today. Will report back


----------



## frandavi99

Mrboots2u said:


> Still balanced for me .. those that want to try something else , try dropping the extraction temp on the spro a little
> 
> If you cant then use a cool pf and a big unheated cup to extract into .


Tried this today; first time I've played with the temp on my Silvia (with PID). Kept the plums for longer, muted acidity revealed a real boozy finish.

Really interesting to see the difference a couple of degrees makes but turns out I prefer the off balance acidity. Cranked it back up for tomorrow.


----------



## fluffles

Mrboots2u said:


> That it will taste different .
> 
> Increase the strength and body
> 
> Extraction yields increases
> 
> You may like it .
> 
> I went a bit finer and got little bit Moore jammy mouthfeel and perceived sweetness
> 
> But ultimately your mouth may feel different about it


Thanks boots I will definitely try this.

At the risk of going off-topic, I just want to try and understand something here: Going finer will increase TDS and EY. When I put more water through this will be increasing EY and reducing TDS. What you're suggesting implies that the TDS is the important factor here as a simple increase in EY of the longer shot didn't improve things for me. Is that a fair comment? Or is there some other effect I'm not thinking of?


----------



## 4515

First try at this bean. I left the grind in the same position as the previous bean (a darker roasted bean) and got a 27 sec pour

Tasted as espresso - got the grapefruit straight away and the malt with a clean dryness

Added water for a long black and the citrus is there in the forefront but not as in your face

Allowing it to cool and I'm getting more sweetness with the acidity - almost sherbet lemon

Not a hint of butterscotch in this cup as yet

Will try later with a slightly tighter grind


----------



## Phil104

Where does the time go? Full of cold at the moment so my in any event difficulties in detecting aroma and taste are even more blunted. That said, yesterday made six espressos (two for a friend) and two flat whites (for Julia), and today a Sowden with another Sowden to follow shortly. Usual 17g>34g although the time varied from 28 to 35 seconds as I played around with the grind (thankfully, not too much of an HG One work out with these), getting tighter. Smooth, balanced, a good cheery mouthfeel and mouthfull and an over-riding dark choc whoosh, dark plum not getting to prune... a chocolate coated dark plum. Brewed in the Sowden - 17.5g left for just over 10 minutes - restored the colour to my cheeks, the whistle to my lips, and the spring to my step. A refreshing hot chocolate without any of that milk glooping it up. So, I like it; Julia likes it; my friend likes it. Where's it from? Some where over the wide oceans, lovingly grown, harvested and roasted.


----------



## 4515

Tried Mrs WDs flat white

For me, the coffee is lost in milk but I'm not a huge fan of milk based drinks

Acidity is tamed down (still a hint of acidity on the tip of my tongue) and the malt comes to the fore


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

CCD'ing at work today. Started at 3 on the Feldgrind and a 4 min steep (18g - 350g) - Was OK but not as nice as the V60 from Saturday, really had to work hard to get the flavours. Going to tighten up the grind next and keep the other variables the same to see what that gives.


----------



## simontc

I love thats theres so much space to play with variables with this bean- not even a case of finding the best flavour as its pretty tasty no matter what you're trying to bring out!


----------



## fluffles

simontc said:


> I love thats theres so much space to play with variables with this bean- not even a case of finding the best flavour as its pretty tasty no matter what you're trying to bring out!


I'm certainly having to work harder with this one to get something balanced. Does anyone else find that the dry aroma of the beans is distinctly vegetal? Potatoey?


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Hairy_Hogg said:


> CCD'ing at work today. Started at 3 on the Feldgrind and a 4 min steep (18g - 350g) - Was OK but not as nice as the V60 from Saturday, really had to work hard to get the flavours. Going to tighten up the grind next and keep the other variables the same to see what that gives.


Tightening the grind did not significantly change the taste for me, so going to try longer (30min) steep tomorrow. V60 has been best for me on this so far.


----------



## 4515

fluffles said:


> I'm certainly having to work harder with this one to get something balanced.


This one reminds me of HB's Kicker blend for the Citrus hit. Those beans can be tricky to get right. I wonder if there are any similarities between the two (different roasters, I realise)


----------



## simontc

Maybe its a water thing; I have hard as nails London water and am finding it easy to bring all kinds of diff things out.


----------



## simontc

Maybe its a water thing; I have hard as nails London water and am finding it easy to bring all kinds of diff things out.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Another day ,,, another shot .

Espresso > red fruits > jammy > juicy with grapefruit and rhubarb like finish

Milk > enough acidity to push through a small milk drink and make it interesting , with some creamy butter scotchness to it .


----------



## NickdeBug

Has anyone tried this in a Sowden yet?

Limited space in office at the moment (hot-desking) so I thought that I would give it a go in something simple.

Any recipe advice gratefully received.


----------



## simontc

Spro and flat so far. The acidity is diminishing daily with this bean! Its becoming really quite an unctuous little beast.


----------



## 4515

gone a bit finer today and theres a huge difference

Less acidity, chocolate

The first flavour was brown / caramelised (maybe) sugar with prunes

Mouthfeel is a lot smoother

Tastes like a different coffee - much more gutsy than yesterdays version


----------



## WorkshopCoffee

*Kivu Belt #120*

*Coffee Info:*

Country: Rwanda

Producer: Kivu Belt Group

Region: Nyamashake, Mahembe

Harvest: Feb - May 2015

Lot: #120

Process: 8 days dry fermentation, fully washed

Variety: Red Bourbon, Bourbon BM139

Altitude: 1440-1780m

Arrival into UK: Oct 2015

*Roast Info:*

Profile: Kivu Espresso

Machine: Probat P25

Worker: Richard

Duration: 10:49

Start Weight: 22kg

End Weight: 19.106 kg

Change of Weight: -13.155%

Ambient Temperature: 30.156°C

Charge Temperature: 203.4°C

End Temperature: 208.8°C

Roast Value: 53.44 Colortrack

Roast Area Index: 102,935.6°C

Development Time: 118s

Development Time Ratio: 18.2 %


----------



## fluffles

WorkshopCoffee said:


> *Kivu Belt #120*
> 
> *Coffee Info:*
> 
> Country: Rwanda
> 
> Producer: Kivu Belt Group
> 
> Region: Nyamashake, Mahembe
> 
> Harvest: Feb - May 2015
> 
> Lot: #120
> 
> Process: 8 days dry fermentation, fully washed
> 
> Variety: Red Bourbon, Bourbon BM139
> 
> Altitude: 1440-1780m
> 
> Arrival into UK: Oct 2015
> 
> *Roast Info:*
> 
> Profile: Kivu Espresso
> 
> Machine: Probat P25
> 
> Worker: Richard
> 
> Duration: 10:49
> 
> Start Weight: 22kg
> 
> End Weight: 19.106 kg
> 
> Change of Weight: -13.155%
> 
> Ambient Temperature: 30.156°C
> 
> Charge Temperature: 203.4°C
> 
> End Temperature: 208.8°C
> 
> Roast Value: 53.44 Colortrack
> 
> Roast Area Index: 102,935.6°C
> 
> Development Time: 118s
> 
> Development Time Ratio: 18.2 %


All is revealed. Would like to hear your flavour notes too, or is that against the rules of LSOL?


----------



## simontc

This is a mystical bean, to be sure!

@WorkshopCoffee ... What's your taste impression of this badboi?


----------



## WorkshopCoffee

Roast Explanation:

Best results will always be achieved when brewing espresso with Kivu #120. We at Workshop have never considered ourselves omni-roasters, however we admit there is always scope to tweak a brew recipe and get tasty results using filter coffee methods from this and other espresso roast profiles we sell. Generally speaking though it doesn't work the other way round; using a filter roast to brew espresso will simply lead to increased salinity, sour acidity, raspy mouthfeel, etc.

Our reasoning behind not omni-roasting is simple; espresso and filter coffee are vastly different beasts, in both recipes and preparations when brewing. This means we approach the plotting of a roasting curve with differing sets of goals when the coffee is to be brewed as espresso or as a filter.

Compared to filter coffee, espresso brewing utilises less solvent (water), lower brewing temperatures, a higher TDS, a vastly reduced clarification due to the metal filter baskets, whilst also needing to be balanced when drunk black or having large volumes of milk added. When roasting for espresso therefore we always aim to achieve the following:

- Increased solubility (to account for reduction in solvent and brew temperature).

- Greater intensity of aroma.

- Fractionally darker colour due to greater caramelisation of sugars.

- Mellower acidity to avoid overly intense and puckering acidity in the cup.

- Increased body to help cut through milk and give the mouthfeel we desire (generally thick and syrupy).

As the industry has progressed and more science is applied to brewing, a lot of baristas and coffee enthusiasts now have a greater understanding of extraction theory coupled with refractometry equipment and information becoming much more accessible. There has also been a moving of the goalposts in how espresso is prepared, adopting much weaker brew ratios, unimodal grind distributions, and reduced pressures at the grouphead. The result has led to roasters adopting a single roast curve intended to produce a roast that will extract fully via filter methods or espresso.

The fixation on achieving a particular extraction yield, rather than balancing taste, texture and aroma in each unique beverage style, leads to an under-appreciation of espresso as being a textural and intense beverage. Yes, pulling an espresso longer will push your extraction percentages up more, but at the expense of texture and TDS.

At some point a coffee stops being an espresso and just becomes a coffee brewed on an espresso machine. We want something more substantial when drinking espresso. The resulting flavours from the roast are able to 'stack up' on top of each other in a more concentrated beverage without becoming unbalanced.

*Our Flavour Notes:*

*Sweetness: *Toffee, malt

*Mouthfeel: *Fat, creamy

*Acidity: *Blood orange

*Aromatics: *Baking spices, star anise, nutmeg, stewed black fruits

*Bitterness: *Black grape-skin, hops, cocoa nibs

Also, as an aside to a point raised by Fluffles regarding a vegetal/potato aroma, that is a defect relatively common to Rwanda and Burundi. If you encounter it in the dry aroma please just chuck that bit of the coffee away and start again. Luckily it is generally only ever one bean in a bag. It doesn't mean the whole bag is ruined, it just means that the portion of coffee the smell emanates from when ground is affected.

http://www.scaa.org/chronicle/2014/07/07/risk-responsibility-and-potatoes-a-rwandan-coffee-story/


----------



## fluffles

WorkshopCoffee said:


> Also, as an aside to a point raised by Fluffles regarding a vegetal/potato aroma, that is a defect relatively common to Rwanda and Burundi. If you encounter it in the dry aroma please just chuck that bit of the coffee away and start again. Luckily it is generally only ever one bean in a bag. It doesn't mean the whole bag is ruined, it just means that the portion of coffee the smell emanates from when ground is affected.
> 
> http://www.scaa.org/chronicle/2014/07/07/risk-responsibility-and-potatoes-a-rwandan-coffee-story/


Thanks for all this info, very interesting to hear your approach to roasting.

In terms of the potato aroma, I get this when smelling the entire bag so I guess there may be a rogue bean still lurking in there somewhere. I will pay attention to the aroma of each ground dose to see if I can identify it.


----------



## simontc

Well- go us, tasting notes pretty much bang on







chuffed to see malt, blood orange, hops, stewed black fruits and cocoa all in there!


----------



## WorkshopCoffee

fluffles said:


> Thanks for all this info, very interesting to hear your approach to roasting.
> 
> In terms of the potato aroma, I get this when smelling the entire bag so I guess there may be a rogue bean still lurking in there somewhere. I will pay attention to the aroma of each ground dose to see if I can identify it.


That is correct. It will be one defective bean however you will not know which one until it passes through the grinder and the smell of potato really comes out.


----------



## risky

Thanks @WorkshopCoffee for the very detailed explaining.

I take it you guys aren't a fan of "eKspresso" then? Which as I understand it favours higher extraction at the expense of mouthfeel?

What type of ratio would you typically be pulling this to?


----------



## Phil104

Thanks @WorkshopCoffee - it seems that there is some fantastic coffee coming out of Rwanda, and this is another example.


----------



## simontc

risky said:


> Thanks @WorkshopCoffee for the very detailed explaining.
> 
> I take it you guys aren't a fan of "eKspresso" then? Which as I understand it favours higher extraction at the expense of mouthfeel?
> 
> What type of ratio would you typically be pulling this to?


I could be wrong but... Im sure they use ek's in store for spro


----------



## Phil104

simontc said:


> I could be wrong but... Im sure they use ek's in store for spro


 For aeropress when I was in there&#8230;..


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Tried a 30 min steep in the CCD today 18g beans 320g water, grinds on top of water, 2.5 on the feldgrind. Totally different taste with the toffee and cocoa nibs really standing out. The toffee to me is like a dark treacle toffee more than a light fudgy toffee.

As I only have access to my CCD at work and no other brew methods I will be sticking with long steeps with this bean when here as it makes this bean much more enjoyable for me.

Back at home tomorrow so will be able to try more with the espresso machine.


----------



## simontc

Agreed that the 'toffee' is a dark taste- tis more malty to me.


----------



## WorkshopCoffee

Phil104 said:


> For aeropress when I was in there&#8230;..


Correct Phil. We do not use EK43s to brew espresso in our stores, only filter coffees, although we have pulled many EK shots using them so know what does and doesn't work for us.

For ourselves, we feel people are getting far too reliant on hitting the right brewing numbers rather than producing delicious coffee. EY and TDS are useful up to a point (we do test them daily in all our stores) but are only a small part of the story (for example, looking exclusively at TDS entirely disregards TUS - Total Undissolved Solids).

For us focus should be re-directed as follows:

Quality of Green Coffee > Quality of Roasting > Quality of Brewing

and

Tasting > Refractometry

If green coffee quality is no good then nothing tasty will follow suit. If the green coffee is good quality but the roasting is off, then brewing good coffee is a losing battle. You can't correct bad green or bad roasting with good brewing.

You need all three steps to line up to get tasty drinks and these are the main challenges we face as a roaster-retailer. Yes, we sometimes get it wrong, but we hope the majority of the time we pull it off and keep people happy through the purchasing of quality green coffee, roasting the coffee in a manner that suit its characteristics, and then the in-store brewing of a delicious beverage that is just plain tasty, be it as espresso, AeroPress or something through our Fecto batch brewers.


----------



## risky

WorkshopCoffee said:


> You can't correct bad green or bad roasting with good brewing.


Might steal this quote.


----------



## Rhys

I'm not hitting the sweetspot at the mo and so not liking it. Tried a daft thing by adding a drop of cold water to the top of the puck to reduce the temp a bit but ended up being sour, not doing that again lol (never know until you try...) Next one was a lot better and got a full extraction of 30.2 out of 15 (being getting an ave of 28 out of 15 just lately). better but not tasty. I quite like grapefruit acidity (used to eat hard gooseberries on our allotment, so I know what sour is..) I don't think this is my bag, but will persevere - if in doubt, throw milk on it lol


----------



## jeebsy

Can you pull more water through?


----------



## Phil104

I'm sorry it's not working for you, Rhys. I had another couple of espressos this morning and I am enjoying it. I have had to tighten the grind some more and I get a nice rich, creamy mouth feel and still a lot of chocolate, especially in a long, lingering after taste.


----------



## fluffles

for those that are having success, what ratios are you going for?


----------



## Mrboots2u

fluffles said:


> for those that are having success, what ratios are you going for?


If it's over riding grapefruit then go finer for your same ratio ....

There is acidity in the finish but jammy and sweetness at the front .

My recipe with my gear won't help you


----------



## 4515

Mrboots2u said:


> If it's over riding grapefruit then go finer for your same ratio ....
> 
> There is acidity in the finish but jammy and sweetness at the front .
> 
> My recipe with my gear won't help you


Finer calmed the acidity and increased mouthfeel for me too


----------



## simontc

Aye... I properly under extracted a spro this morn. Smack in the mouth with a thin feeling acid bath... Not often I under extract!


----------



## Mrboots2u

fluffles said:


> for those that are having success, what ratios are you going for?


try 1:2 ratio at 30 seconds plus


----------



## simontc

Just had a flat with this lil beast- still good! Long lasting cocoa finish now. Nom, as boots would say!


----------



## Jon

simontc said:


> Just had a flat with this lil beast- still good! Long lasting cocoa finish now. Nom, as boots would say!


Yeah I'm getting that. There's something really nice about this. But I can't put my finger on it. Like a sort of maltiness or something.


----------



## simontc

Its a really enjoyable bean. I may be opening my mind to workshop again...


----------



## fluffles

Mrboots2u said:


> try 1:2 ratio at 30 seconds plus


I did 14.5 into 30 in 5 + 40s and it was a big improvement. Much sweeter with an orangeyness taking over some of that grapefruit


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## Rhys

Bit better..

Ground 14g instead of 15g with 31g output, slightly tighter grind. Grapefruit coming out and better than before.

Pulled another at 14g, ground slightly finer still and tamped with only tamp weight of 319g with a quarter turn nutate.

This gave an output of 32g (10s pre-infuse followed by a a firm starting pull, graduating off to finger pressure - maintaining a steady mouse tail). Result was a pour with very little crema and less acidity, more of that 'blood orange' coming through than grapefruit - but still on the sweeter side of grapefruit. Aftertaste is a lot less acidic than before. Takes me back to being a kid when I'd have half a grapefruit sprinkled with sugar.

I was about to give up on these, but they've just saved themselves..


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## simontc

No @Rhys you saved 'em ... Good work!


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## Rhys

simontc said:


> No @Rhys you saved 'em ... Good work!


Unchartered territory here, having to dose less, to be able to grind finer so as not to choke my machine. Contemplating trying 13g next and finer still.. Can't grind finer using 14g as I won't be able to pull a shot.

Was tempted to get the Classic out of hibernation, but that'd mean upping to 17g/18g and maybe 'pulling' a 40g shot as well as mucking about with grind again - so sticking to the lever.. (Also you can't 'pull' a shot on a pump machine, more of a 'click.. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz/--/zzzzzt.. click.. tsshhh..' Not the same really..







)


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## Rhys

Same 14g input, ground even finer..










Last shot was 1 indent to the left of centre on the Major. This new setting should choke the La Pavoni but tamped as light as I dare (tried with the lightest of tamps after whisking in the basket for distribution, and it poured out - too soft, like a sponge cake with a delve in the middle..) this time tamper with a very light fingertip pressure and 1/4 turn nutate.

Thought I'd choked it.. 6 seconds pre-infuse and started to pull - about 10 seconds later and it started to show, bit more pressure and a nice fine tail appeared, the pressure nicely running off.










Smack on 30g (from 14g in). I don't think I can push this one any further, sweeter than the last effort with acidity well under control (and becoming non-existent with aftertaste). Split this espro into a 6oz and got a lovely flat white..










Called for a simple design I felt, sweet with milk, almost lemony like drizzle cake but fainter. As Bootsy would say 'NOM!!' Will have try an recreate this tomorrow, but if I don't at least it was a good'un tonight!


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## frandavi99

Went finer today; 18g to 35g in 40secs. Lost a lot of acidity but kept the grapefruit finish. Love that you can switch the recipe a little bit and it's almost like drinking a different coffee.


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## simontc

Glad to see you gents have got aboard the vibe of this bean!!!


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## simontc

Last aeropress of this morn. 5 min in all. Beautiful acidity.

This one shall be missed


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## Phil104

Back to espressos of this today - and it absolutely delivers. Not so much grapefruit for me but plenty of other things going on in a satisfyingly complex way.


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## NickdeBug

Good to hear that folk are getting some great results with these beans.


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## 4515

NickdeBug said:


> Good to hear that folk are getting some great results with these beans.


Its a really good coffee but, in some cases, needs a bit more attention than other coffees may need. Once its dialled in, it works really well. I have some left and am looking forward to drinking it !


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## Rhys

I'm nearing the bottom of my first bag, have given one away (to my dad) and will be freezing a bag as I have other coffees on the go as well. Can't say I'm blown away but saying that I haven't tried this in an AeroPress as yet, and haven't really dialled it in for pour-over.


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## Gerrard Burrard

First time as an Aeropress at work today - 15g into 230g water (as much as I could get in). Two minute steep inverted. Two paper filters. Very nice mouth feel - better than with V60. Had less grapefruit acidity up front than with V60 and a mellower finish, particularly as it cooled. It's not exactly "wow" as a brew but I've enjoyed this bean.


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## Rhys

I'm going to have a guess at these.. Rwandan?

Going to try them through the Classic..


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## 4515

Rhys said:


> I'm going to have a guess at these.. Rwandan?
> 
> Going to try them through the Classic..


Check out page 21 of the thread

*Kivu Belt #120*





*
**Coffee Info:*

*
Country: Rwanda*

*
Producer: Kivu Belt Group*

*
Region: Nyamashake, Mahembe*

*
Harvest: Feb - May 2015*

*
Lot: #120*

*
Process: 8 days dry fermentation, fully washed*

*
Variety: Red Bourbon, Bourbon BM139*

*
Altitude: 1440-1780m*

*
Arrival into UK: Oct 2015*





*
**Roast Info:*

*
Profile: Kivu Espresso*

*
Machine: Probat P25*

*
Worker: Richard*



*
Duration: 10:49*

*
Start Weight: 22kg*

*
End Weight: 19.106 kg*

*
Change of Weight: -13.155%*

*
Ambient Temperature: 30.156°C*

*
Charge Temperature: 203.4°C*

*
End Temperature: 208.8°C*

*
Roast Value: 53.44 Colortrack*

*
Roast Area Index: 102,935.6°C*

*
Development Time: 118s*

*
Development Time Ratio: 18.2 %*


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## Rhys

Must've glossed over that one lol.

Got it right anyway


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## jlarkin

Haha, I thought it was a joke! The "guess" that is


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## Rhys

jlarkin said:


> Haha, I thought it was a joke! The "guess" that is


I was packing a couple of bags up to go in the deep freeze (fast freeze section) along with a couple of bags of DSOL. Had a look at the info sheet that came with them and guessed from there. Forgot that it's been posted already lol. D'oh!


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## Phil104

Interesting - two espressos this morning and for the first time a distinct grapefruit after taste. Yum.


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## frandavi99

Last one of this today. Perfect long black; stewed plums leading to grapefruit acidity. Really enjoyed this coffee so thanks @NickdeBug and Workshop. First time in a while I've gone through 500g, not got bored and been sad when it's finished.


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## Hairy_Hogg

I just cannot get the best out of this on my classic as an espresso but I am really enjoying it in the V60, just pulled the second bag out the freezer.


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## risky

Interesting as I struggled with it on brewed and am much preferring it on espresso as Workshop apparently intended it. I pulled the first spro shot of it this this morning (I know, but grinder was out of order) 18>38 and it was total amaretti biscuits.


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## simontc

Wish I still had some!


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## Dunk

Tried mine today. Really enjoyed the light fruityness in a flat white. Gotta play with the timings now to see what other flavours I can extract!


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