# Some Sage Advice



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I have just been informed that I am wrong and it's a failure to properly follow manufacturer instructions. As I don't own a Sage I figured it might be best to edit my post (to remove the inaccuracies), I don't want to give poor/incorrect advice on the forum, especially where it might develop into a discussion intended help owners keep their machines in good shape for longer based on an erroneous starting premise. In this case it would achieve the opposite effect and would not be something I want.

Thanks to @Blue_Cafe for posting the info


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

I don't really believe most of the issues arising with these devices (as I have read) is as much to do with poor appliance or water quality as much as just not reading or following manufacturer instructions.

A symptom of the iPhone generation I'm afraid.


----------



## Mpbradford (Jan 28, 2020)

Thanks for the advice. So is the summary that if you want your machine to last, use bottled water, with a known mg profile of all elements - else expect your machine to deteriorate in quality? Sage is far more sensitive than all other brands, so extra care should be taken?

Is there any general guidance on consequences of not following the advice? I use tap water and make 6 espresso shots per day - how long can I expect my sage machine to work without vast deterioration?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mpbradford said:


> Thanks for the advice. So is the summary that if you want your machine to last, use bottled water, with a known mg profile of all elements - else expect your machine to deteriorate in quality? Sage is far more sensitive than all other brands, so extra care should be taken?
> 
> Is there any general guidance on consequences of not following the advice? I use tap water and make 6 espresso shots per day - how long can I expect my sage machine to work without vast deterioration?


 No, that wasn't my advice and your summary is not at all what I said. I've edited my post🙂 to remove any incorrect advice.

Enjoy your machine..


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mpbradford said:


> Is there any general guidance on consequences of not following the advice? I use tap water and make 6 espresso shots per day - how long can I expect my sage machine to work without vast deterioration?


 There are a number of water quality threads on the forum to help you answer that question. Jim Schulman's water FAQ is quite thorough. http://users.rcn.com/erics/Water Quality/Water FAQ.pdf

You need to know the rate at which your water will produce scale. There is a table in the FAQ telling you how much scale will form per litre of use. So you just need to know the composition of the water and how much water you put through the different thermocoils/boilers per week. You then need to calculate the surface area of these pipes/boilers. Using the density of CaCO3 and MgCO3, together with the rate of deposit, and the surface area of boilers/thermocoils, you might be able to calculate and estimate for how long it will take for a deposit of a certain thickness to form in pipes/boilers. This will give you some idea of how quickly you can expect pipes to get blocked up.

Alternatively you can just make sure you are using water that will not form scale at your operating temperatures.


----------



## Mpbradford (Jan 28, 2020)

@Rob1

Thanks, I like that last sentence and will look into using better quality water. Good to have the qualifying references and data to support the sentence as well, thanks again.


----------



## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

I don't have first hand knowledge, but have done a bit of research here and elsewhere and in the end have gone, eyes wide open, for a Sage BD as a first machine. In essence, what I think I have learned from reading is that, intuitively DaveC's advice about using good water must make sense. Sage devices have quite small boilers (or Thermojets In some machines) and a fair amount of gadgetry that can scale up and eventually fail. As pointed out, a defective part in a Sage is often harder to get hold of/replace than a standard machine. That doesn't necessarily mean they need much more care than other machines, but the experts on here really do take care of their machines. So maybe the same amount of care as a 'serious' owner will help prolong life.


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

earthflattener said:


> I don't have first hand knowledge, but have done a bit of research here and elsewhere and in the end have gone, eyes wide open, for a Sage BD as a first machine. In essence, what I think I have learned from reading is that, intuitively DaveC's advice about using good water must make sense. Sage devices have quite small boilers (or Thermojets In some machines) and a fair amount of gadgetry that can scale up and eventually fail. As pointed out, a defective part in a Sage is often harder to get hold of/replace than a standard machine. That doesn't necessarily mean they need much more care than other machines, but the experts on here really do take care of their machines. So maybe the same amount of care as a 'serious' owner will help prolong life.


 Errr.

I'm getting serious déjà vu from this. Have you posted this before somewhere else?


----------



## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

No... I have posted that I just got a DB (very proud...like a new dad!!), but none of the rest of it


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

When I talk to machine manufacturers, they all seem to think we use water from Rivendell with it's magical healing properties..Even though many areas the machines are built in have water as hard as Vinnie Jones. ????


----------



## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> .. many areas the machines are built in have water as hard as Vinnie Jones. 🤣


 My kettle within a month looks a cement mixer if i use tap water.


----------

