# Shade grown coffee - low acidity



## dmreeceuk (Apr 18, 2018)

I used to get really bad acid reflux and traced it down to coffee I was drinking. I went to decaff and instantly no more indigestion or acid. So realised coffee was the culprit. Was I doomed to a life of weak, lacking in flavour decaff? While in Seattle I was introduced to shade grown coffee as a low acidity, lower caffeine coffee and a solution to people who get reflux from coffee and it worked. I could have a cup or more without getting any heartburn https://camanoislandcoffee.com/3-benefits-of-shade-grown-coffee-superpowers/

Managed to track some down in the UK and it seems to do the trick and is great tasting low yield coffee. Anyone tried this company? https://www.sanfranciscobaycoffee.co.uk their coffee also seems substantially cheaper (by half!!) than most roasters mentioned on here.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Pleased to hear that you have found coffee that doesn't give you reflux.

I think there is much confusion over "low acid" coffee though. If you analysed a cup of coffee it is full of acid compounds. Decaf will by definition have less caffeic acid but still Chlorogenic acids etc...

It sounds like you are sensitive to caffeic acid so it makes sense to cut it out or reduce.

Laurina is a coffee varietal that naturally has less than half the caffeine content of the more usual arabica varietals and might be worth looking out for. HasBean certainly have it now and then.

You link doesn't specify the coffee cultivar. At best I'd say that some of the info on that site is dubious. Shade grown coffee of lots of different varietals are grown worldwide from Ethiopia to Brazil. AFAIK none are touted as being low in caffeine. Possibly Australian coffee might be an exception? Not sure it's shade grown though.

Some coffees have lower acidity (which is something we perceive by taste when drinking) .Coffees with naturally higher acidity (by taste) can be altered by some extent by roasting. A darker roast might remove it whereas a lighter roast will not.

Coffee regardless of the perceived acidity is still full of acids (even decaf - it has no or minimal caffeic acid).


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## dmreeceuk (Apr 18, 2018)

Shade grown coffee is big in the US and there is hardly any mention over here. Seattle is a coffee drinkers heaven its really not just starbucks there are lots of roasters and independent shops and drive through huts and shade grown seems to be a thing over there. If you search some of the US sites for shade grown it states its about half the caffeine of the mass-produced cultivated fields of beans. There seems to be some evidence of the lower Caffeic acid but higher Chlorogenic acid perhaps because its slower grown.https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/jsfa.5568

I visited the roaster in Seattle I linked and spent an hour discussing his process and beans and the farms he works with and visits regularly. He ships all over the US and has multiple roasting locations and 200 organic coffee shops. All the beans from Camino Island and tthe UK San Francisco company are Arabica according to their website. Seem the SanFrancisco coffee company are part of a much bigger US company called Rogers Family. I guess the lower caffeine of the shade grown helps the acid reflux. Surprised it not even mentioned in the UK. I suspect as with many things we are playing catch up. There seems to be ecological benefits, especially for birds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shade-grown_coffee in fact the RSPB appear to be promoting it.

To be honest given the quality of the coffee I had in the US and the latest beans I found I am sticking with shade grown coffee. I hope some of the UK roasters start stating if their beans are grown in a forest canopy or an open field.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

dmreeceuk said:


> S. I hope some of the UK roasters start stating if their beans are grown in a forest canopy or an open field.


Many of them do state this if you read through the publicity note that they put in the advertising. Well, they usually say if it is grown with shade trees, but perhaps they do not say if it is not!

So perhaps with UK roasters adverts, assume unless stated otherwise, it will be coffee grown without shade.

A further clue is where the coffee was grown. If the coffee is produced by subsistence farmers then shade trees are essential for ---shade , and to provide more income and food for the family. If the coffee is grown by large estates in regions that are only just good enough climate and soil wise, then moisture sapping shade trees may not be necessary or desirable.

Unfortunately the growing of shade trees may be under pressure in one area of Kenya.

My 'person in the know' tells me that subsistence farmers have been told by the major buyers to cut down the shade trees to increase production and standardise quality (read flavours) . The result would be a larger amount of poorer quality coffee that attracts a lower price. These shade trees also provide food for the farmers family and the excess can be sold locally.

Last season washing stations/'factories' refused to accept cherry from farmers who refused to cut down the shade trees, because the coffee was not grown in accordance with the buyers instructions.

It happened to 'my person in the knows'' parents.

The matter was presented to the relevant authorities who who claimed no knowledge and were just as horrified as to the possible consequences.

Note. A Kenyan subsistence farmer gets paid Ksh 70 /kg of cherry. By the time that gets to eBay UK it is Ksh 28000.


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## dmreeceuk (Apr 18, 2018)

Batian said:


> Many of them do state this if you read through the publicity note that they put in the advertising. Well, they usually say if it is grown
> 
> Note. A Kenyan subsistence farmer gets paid Ksh 70 /kg of cherry. By the time that gets to eBay UK it is Ksh 28000.


Well I also guess thats because we in the UK are being ripped off for our roasted coffee. I always buy when on my travels I cant belive how much some of the online UK roasters charge. Over £15Kg is creaming off a massive profit. Probably many are lifestyle businesses who don't want to sell lots of coffee but maintain a good lifestyle on a small shipping volume. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43742686


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Bit of a generalisation there, as without knowing the trading arrangements ( direct trade, fair gate price, quality , rarity etc) you run the risk of blaming the roaster when the biggest mark ups have been made prior to this.

There's no doubt the grower gets the poorest deal in most (but not all) cases however take a look at HasBean / Rave as roasters (there are lots more) or Falcon specialty as an importer to see some positive examples of a fairer approach.

Jumping off soapbox now







No offence intended and hope you sort your stomach issues.

John


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

i wonder if sanfranciscobaycoffee roasts per order or you get coffeebeans with best before date only. It is really cheap, 908gr for £13.94 delivered


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

johnhealey is right. The bulk of the massive mark up happens in the country of origin, with many people at the trough of plenty. Rules and regulations create a massive admin structure, and they all take a cut.

And that is without the organised price fixing at auction, 'withdrawn' lots under the auctioneer and numerous other methods of milking the cash cow and stiffing the farmer.

Having had my finger on the pulse with UK greens prices for the last couple of years, I think most of the UK roasters (who are complying with all the laws and regs etc) are making reasonable charges for their services.

Post and packaging costs really hit the price hard. Those nice zip lock one way valve bags put £0.40p (at least) on 250gms of coffee.

Perhaps roasters could research and then market coffee volumes to be more cost effective to the customer and less profitable to packaging manufacturers and Royal Mail!

I know of one small roaster in Cambridge that did just that.

Of more concern to me personally is the expensive but slapdash courier services for the greens and protectionism 'on the quiet' of the greens market.

However, I see a couple wholesalers not being so restrictive of late. Perhaps the surge in the coffee market and popularity of small batch roasters has meant (rather like real ale brewing a few years ago) that the wholesalers are making sure they do not miss a trick?

I accept that I am probably going to have to 'waste' one day waiting for an expensive 'next day' delivery, but when the delivery does not happen and I 'waste' two days, as has happened twice in the last 3 weeks, I get peeved. And if I was selling at profit, that would have to be accounted for. The couriers are well known and used to be reliable. They just said 'see our t and c's'. Short version is, "we can charge you a large amount for a service but if we do not deliver, tough.''

The greens seller made a lot of sympathetic noises, but I no real solution.

But back to the OP's concerns.

I suggest if a roaster is not declaring the growing history of the coffee, and/or, cannot or will not tell you, there are many others that do. Several are advertisers on this forum.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

With regard to the San Francisco coffee co link they are not exactly giving much detail on the coffee other than at species level. Robusta has more caffeine than Arabica. Well that's not exactly earth shattering news is it? We use 100% Arabica but no info on the varietals.

A great example is HasBean. Detailed information on every aspect of the coffee from source to cup.

Some other roasters provide decent info but usually it is a summary of what the importer tells them e.g. Falcon Specialty. So the more information the importer provides the better. Can't really blame the roaster for this.

Some roasters provide almost zero information. I don't buy from them.


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## dmreeceuk (Apr 18, 2018)

Step21 said:


> With regard to the San Francisco coffee co link they are not exactly giving much detail on the coffee other than at species level. Robusta has more caffeine than Arabica. Well that's not exactly earth shattering news is it? We use 100% Arabica but no info on the varietals.
> 
> A great example is HasBean. Detailed information on every aspect of the coffee from source to cup.
> 
> ...


Yes but Hasbean is twice the price for the cheapest Coffee they do. To me there is just far too much choice on their website, I don't know where to start. I am discovering coffee is like wine and some people want to explore the exact grape and region and some just want a good house red. Whether in a blind taste test you could tell the difference between cheap and expensive is debatable. Certainly with wine price and grape often dont indicate quality as several blind wine tasting parties will confirm.  I do know my stomach can tell cheap Aldi beans from shade grown.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dmreeceuk said:


> I do know my stomach can tell cheap Aldi beans from shade grown.


I don't have your stomach, but I do as it happens have some Aldi beans in my hand, no mention of shade grown, or not. I'd be able to tell them from HasBean (who are generally not expensive, often about the same price as Illy).

Also, drinking some bright, fruity shade grown Rwandan too.

In a blind taste test you should be able to tell the difference between 2 different coffees, expensive or not. Blind cupping is how beans are often selected.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Aldi sells 200g of SO coffee for £1.99, this San Francisco coffee is 908g for £9.99. Doing some arithmetic thats more or less 1p per gram at Aldi and 1.1p per gram at San Francisco. There is very little pricewise between them.

At £2.75 per 250g the San Francisco is cheap. Given it is sourced from low yield planting that will most likely be more time consuming to harvest, one wonders how it is economic at those prices? Especially given the minimum price guarantee to the farmer and the community schemes alluded to on the website.


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## dmreeceuk (Apr 18, 2018)

Step21 said:


> Aldi sells 200g of SO coffee for £1.99, this San Francisco coffee is 908g for £9.99. Doing some arithmetic thats more or less 1p per gram at Aldi and 1.1p per gram at San Francisco. There is very little pricewise between them.
> 
> At £2.75 per 250g the San Francisco is cheap. Given it is sourced from low yield planting that will most likely be more time consuming to harvest, one wonders how it is economic at those prices? Especially given the minimum price guarantee to the farmer and the community schemes alluded to on the website.


It does seem remarkably cheap. They sell it in Costco and amazon so volumes must be high. They have a US parent company but the coffee is more expensive in the US at current exchange rates. I ordered two bags the regular roast and rainforest blend and messed up and ordered twice. Sent them an email asking to cancel one but they replied had already shipped both. They just gave me a refund and told me to keep it and gave me 20% of my next order. The Rainforest blend seems pretty good to me. Seemed a good service and came next day.

I shall have to try some Hasbean. Any recommendation on which one?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I couldn't really recommend a particular bean to you for fear of you getting reflux.

For shade grown you'd need to go through the small detail of each bean to find whether there currently are any available. I don't see any Laurina varietal at present.

Union usually have a rainforest/shade type offering. Might be worth a look.


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