# Whats Next For Niche?



## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

We are already seeing some similar single dosers popping up on the market in the prosumer price bracket, so now 18 months or so down the track, the Zero does seem to have gained a bit of a following and has led the charge in its 'niche'. Its definitely a reliable bit of kit (from my own experience and from what I'm hearing from others) thanks to Martin and his teams engineering chops, and quite possibly it has been the 'game changer' that some called it back in the early days.

What do you think could/should/would be next from these guys? What would you like to see in a Zero V2 if there was one? What about accessories? What could they add to the line up that would make you happy?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Right now with my bean change all the time, my Clima pro is nearing it's exit sharpish to much waste. So something flat and single dose would be great.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Jony said:


> Right now with my bean change all the time, my Clima pro is nearing it's exit sharpish to much waste. So something flat and single dose would be great.


 I've read a bit on the conical vs flats debate. Depends on what day of the week the coin flips on that one. Subjective I guess. I can't see how it makes a difference myself. Possibly just size?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

This is not a debate, something flat off them 83 plus they have conical already. Not really a lot to choose from that don't cost a fortune


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

Jony said:


> Right now with my bean change all the time, my Clima pro is nearing it's exit sharpish to much waste. So something flat and single dose would be great.


 A Monolith alternative in a reasonable price bracket? Count me in.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

There just needs to be a well aligned single dose flat burr grinder on the market to mirror the Niche. Doesn't necessarily need to hit the same price point but currently (I may be wrong) there is nothing under about £1500 that is actually a proper single doser and not just an old model that a company has done some basic tweaking to make it SD.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Jony said:


> This is not a debate, something flat off them 83 plus they have conical already. Not really a lot to choose from that don't cost a fortune


 I wasn't suggesting this was a debate. I was just wanting to know why Flats are desirable or preferred by some.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Pablo El Beano said:


> I wasn't suggesting this was a debate. I was just wanting to know why Flats are desirable or preferred by some.


 Generally accepted to be better for light roasts and conics for medium/dark.

Probably not much in it but if you prefer light roasts then you probably want to highlight the characteristics of lighter roast beans and flats seem to do that more than conics.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

It would be cool to see 83mm+ vertical or 45 degree flat burrs to help with the single dosing.

Not sure if it would be too big though for their market, if the motor would have to be a lot more powerful to start loaded with beans?

Personally I think they should first do their cups in 49, 51 and 54mm sizes as accessories first so you can buy separately. They would sell loads of them.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Northern_Monkey said:


> Personally I think they should first do their cups in 49, 51 and 54mm sizes as accessories first so you can buy separately. They would sell loads of them.


 Funnily enough I emailed them yesterday about this and was told that they are in the pipeline but no date as of yet.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Northern_Monkey said:


> It would be cool to see 83mm+ vertical or 45 degree flat burrs to help with the single dosing.
> 
> Not sure if it would be too big though for their market, if the motor would have to be a lot more powerful to start loaded with beans?
> 
> Personally I think they should first do their cups in 49, 51 and 54mm sizes as accessories first so you can buy separately. They would sell loads of them.


 I was thinking similar. Big flat burrs at 45 degrees or vertical would be awesome, but I can't imagine it being possible at any kind of sensible price point!

And can't imagine it being in such a compact design.

That said, the Niche broke the rules a bit on what you can get at the price point, so maybe it's possible...

Come on Martin & James, I believe in you 😉


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Pablo El Beano said:


> We are already seeing some similar single dosers popping up on the market in the prosumer price bracket


 We are? Similar to Niche? Which ones? What price constitutes 'prosumer'? Niche £500 is budget, then it's what, the Ceado E5SD at £950? E37SD at £1700? There aren't many single dose specific below that are there?


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

CocoLoco said:


> We are? Similar to Niche? Which ones? What price constitutes 'prosumer'? Niche £500 is budget, then it's what, the Ceado E5SD at £950? E37SD at £1700? There aren't many single dose specific below that are there?


 This looks promising: https://www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Pablo El Beano said:


> This looks promising: https://www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64


 It does I agree, but that's not similar to Niche, that's a $1585 + shipping + duties grinder. That's a E37SD rival.

What the market really needs is someone like Eureka to bring out a SD specific grinder at the £300ish mark, maybe Specialita price. Not sure if you are familiar with mobile phones, but companies concentrate on the high end, the flagship devices. They pay little attention to mid and budget in the West. Until now. OnePlus have just bought out a high spec, mid range phone and it's exploded. In the SD grinder market we start with a £500 Niche or force a Specialita, which isn't really designed for it. Then we go to £950.

Given the massive increase in coffee interest over the last decade I'm surprised the big companies with finance behind them have not brought one to market. Certainly now with Covid having a lasting effect on society and the changes in the economy, I would have thought cheaper home coffee would be an exploitable market.

Having said all that, 'proper coffee' starts at the Gaggia Classic + grinder or Sage market at £500ish, your next jump is the £1500 MaraX/Minima + grinder market (new this is, I get there's a second hand market to tinker with). There isn't all these incremental steps, maybe grinders reflect that too.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@CocoLoco - We haven't heard much about the E5SD on the forum really, seems like a lot of money for SJ sized burrs.

Do you know if anyone has done a write up on it? I'm yet to be convinced about it representing a value for money...


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @CocoLoco - We haven't heard much about the E5SD on the forum really, seems like a lot of money for SJ sized burrs.
> 
> Do you know if anyone has done a write up on it? I'm yet to be convinced about it representing a value for money...


 No I haven't outside Whole Latte Love (who seem to love Ceado) and a few Youtube videos, none of which I would say are authoritative. That the guys with more expensive set ups on this forum don't talk about the E5SD might tell us something. Tbh I'm not experienced enough to know about that end of market, I'm still at the beginner stage. I'm looking at a Specialita but coming from single dosing so I am interested in the Niche and it's rivals, just there aren't any at the price point!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

You need a good motor for big flats. I suppose engineering to mount such motor also isn't as easy.

I wish there was a big flat grinder that's still compact and has reasonable price tag. This would definitely open up opportunities for most who want to experience what the big flats are about. Not everyone can afford Monoliths - well, I can't.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

PPapa said:


> You need a good motor for big flats. I suppose engineering to mount such motor also isn't as easy.
> 
> I wish there was a big flat grinder that's still compact and has reasonable price tag. This would definitely open up opportunities for most who want to experience what the big flats are about. Not everyone can afford Monoliths - well, I can't.


 Not a big flat per see, but shame no one has a Lagom O , to offer an user opinion on.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Not a big flat per see, but shame no one has a Lagom O , to offer an user opinion on.


Give me a couple weeks

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Planter said:


> Give me a couple weeks
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 Couldn't help yourself😜


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Planter said:


> Give me a couple weeks
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


Detailed review, same day as delivery....... chop chop

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Planter said:


> Give me a couple weeks
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 Last time I share with you 🤣😜


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Jony said:


> Last time I share with you


You know I'm rarely on here these days

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Your not missing anything let me tell you. I have a Moccamaster now🤪


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Jony said:


> Your not missing anything let me tell you. I have a Moccamaster now🤪


 WhT happened to the two group Vostok ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Sat on the floor from when I dumped it, far to busy!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Planter said:


> Give me a couple weeks
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 Oooooh this sounds exciting 😁


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Oooooh this sounds exciting


I decided on a change  as wasn't enjoying the current setup. 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Planter said:


> Give me a couple weeks
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 How you getting on with it Panter?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

@Planter


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

Agree with much of the above.

A large, flat, SD grinder that's, most importantly, built properly out of the box. Customers having to align burrs in what is fundamentally a very basic piece of kit that costs anything up to £2500 is a joke. The industry needs a kick in the pants.

For me, I'd like to grind directly into the pf (with a funnel is ok), but I may be in the minority there.

Be nice if there were options at point of purchase on burr spec too, that'd keep the pricing down but also give those who want higher specs the option of Ti (Or other) burrs without having to shell out on standard burrs too. Bit like getting your single and double portafilter handles with most E61 machines 🙄


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

B-Roadie said:


> Agree with much of the above.
> 
> A large, flat, SD grinder that's, most importantly, built properly out of the box. Customers having to align burrs in what is fundamentally a very basic piece of kit that costs anything up to £2500 is a joke. The industry needs a kick in the pants.
> 
> ...


 Sounds like a Lagom is the best bet for you. And it's a snip at $1500


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## Mrb2020 (Mar 6, 2016)

Maybe what's next for Niche is to sell like a proper business and stop masquerading as a start up.

With £10.5 million in sales it feels a bit odd to still be pledging money for the product. They claim the platform works for them, it's seems perfectly possible for most businesses to run an online shop, adhering to consumer protection laws.

Just my two pence, maybe someone can correct me.

(I write this as a long term owner)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrb2020 said:


> Maybe what's next for Niche is to sell like a proper business and stop masquerading as a start up.
> 
> With £10.5 million in sales it feels a bit odd to still be pledging money for the product. They claim the platform works for them, it's seems perfectly possible for most businesses to run an online shop, adhering to consumer protection laws.
> 
> ...


 Can I ask, what possible difference it makes to you? Are you losing out on something, or is it just a pretty poor excuse to come on and bitch about something which is without doubt, a truly successful British designed British owned company who have revolutionised the grinder industry.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

B-Roadie said:


> Agree with much of the above.
> 
> A large, flat, SD grinder that's, most importantly, built properly out of the box. Customers having to align burrs in what is fundamentally a very basic piece of kit that costs anything up to £2500 is a joke. The industry needs a kick in the pants.
> 
> ...


 If you want an production made super aligned grinder they will cost dollars more, if you want a boutique super aligned gridner they already cost way more.

I know people like numbers but at what point does alignment become simply a number to willly wave about for a grinder and charge more or delivers a result and one that make any qualitative difference to the experience in the cup for the user.

PS yes Ek43 are totally variable in production and I wouldn't buy one , i have no answers to above .


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## Mrb2020 (Mar 6, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Can I ask, what possible difference it makes to you? Are you losing out on something, or is it just a pretty poor excuse to come on and bitch about something which is without doubt, a truly successful British designed British owned company who have revolutionised the grinder industry.


 It makes absolutely no difference to me, I'm only aware of it as I have a friend that wants to buy one.

My comment isn't directed at the design in anyway, more their business practice.

For reference I think it's a great grinder and is unmatched for the price point.


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## EddieT (Oct 27, 2020)

Mrb2020 said:


> Maybe what's next for Niche is to sell like a proper business and stop masquerading as a start up.
> 
> With £10.5 million in sales it feels a bit odd to still be pledging money for the product. They claim the platform works for them, it's seems perfectly possible for most businesses to run an online shop, adhering to consumer protection laws.
> 
> ...


 I'd agree with this. They surely aren't doing it anymore due to a lack of funds - the initial reason for selling on a platform like that. Raise funds until you can afford to make the thing then ship it out. They're probably still doing it to manage production run capacity and to maintain the demand that comes from scarcity. However, as you say, that is all at the sacrifice of basic consumer rights you usually get buying something in the traditional way, whether online or not. I hear they are very good as a business. I certainly had a very smooth transaction with them and still love my Niche. I'm not aware they have ever failed to deliver and the customer service seems spot on. It does feel slightly odd therefore that they wouldn't setup a proper online store, act like a 'proper' retailer. I'm sure they could still retain the current batch production approach and cult like status whilst also offering buyers a bit more of a guarantee. Interesting discussion 😬


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

I also agree with @Mrb2020. I either started a thread or hijacked the Niche thread some time ago to make those exact points.

FWIW, my opinion then in my capacity as a lawyer - and it hasn't changed - is that there would be a good case to be made that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies to all Niche transactions despite the fact that they are being framed as crowdfunding. It's no longer taking a flyer on a potential future product; it's now pay money and receive in a month's time. That's not crowdfunding, that's just retail.

It's a moot point. There's hardly going to be a VW-style class action.

As I acknowledged at the time: the customer service seems great, the product is excellent. I did wonder at one point whether VAT was being paid since it wasn't on my invoice, but I think I received confirmation that they do pay VAT over to HMRC.

edit: Thinking about it: now they're having the restricted supply, there might be a benefit to having the "announcements" feature that seems to come with IG. Every couple of months I seem to get a notification from them that might be useful if I was in a queue.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I still make the point, exactly what difference does it make to anyone, how Niche decide to sell their product? As long as orders are met, problems are resolved, then so what? In Scotland, for a long time in order to arrest a person there was 2 criteria. Firstly, there had to be 2 police officers and secondly, they had to have their caps on (as far as I am aware this is not urban myth or correct these days). So again, what possible relevance might this have? Filthy, once again you are getting all hot under the collar about something that has not happened, but in theory, possibly could happen........I suggest, with the greatest or respect, that you take a cold shower......LOL


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

People were in a queue initially and some crowd funded 2,  you can guess why. Then it gets popular and the batches sell very quickly. Previously it related to how early price wise people contributed = more risk. I ordered mine late in the process of producing it so paid more than people who went in earlier.

They are a business and I suppose there are reasons and advantages in working as they are. In real terms it's not a lot different to Monarch etc where people pay a large deposit before they are even made. Given prices those are unlikely to get more orders than they can cope with. Niche might. No idea what they do now but they were assembled here. It doesn't really matter where they are assembled or parts are made there will only be scope for some production rate. £10.5m apparent sales sounds great but without knowing costs this doesn't really mean much in terms of profit. High end toolmaking in China isn't as fantastically cheap as people might imagine. Niche bodies might even be sand cast. Much lower outlay than injection casting. Some parts may be cnc'd from solid rather than from castings.

I don't think they can easily do anything about people buying to sell. It goes on. They could take unlimited orders but just how many would be ordered and how long would they take to fulfil them. Say the queue was 2,000 long they could arrange as one off for a batch of that size to be made quickly. What to do after that? In practice they would come out at a similar rate to what they are at the moment as no one is going to put lots of money into something that wont last. Bits are probably made by companies that produce other bits for other things. If they switched their entire production to Niche what would their other customers do.  In other words I can't see any one creating a high volume Niche factory. Some grinder maker could produce something similar and copyright infringement would not stop them from doing just that. Trying to produce a clone might.  However a grinder maker may need to invest to produce similar levels of precision.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Some can express an opinion, others can ask why do you care, and others still can ask why do you care that they care? It all gets a bit circular at that point.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

To answer the actual question in the thread, I think it will have to be a flat otherwise there's little point in differentiating. Niche is so popular for one reason: it is the best single-dose conical grinder in its price bracket. The next step will be best single-dose flat in its price bracket. But for now they are making money hand over fist doing one thing very very well.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

They were asked about flat early on and the reply was an emphatic no. There could be a number of reason for that. They haven't saturated the market they have for the current ones. Not yet anyway.

My post was relating to the real world. I have no idea how big a batch they can cope with just pointing out that increasing it needn't be as simple as people think.


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## 2cups (May 6, 2019)

filthynines said:


> Some can express an opinion, others can ask why do you care, and others still can ask why do you care that they care? It all gets a bit circular at that point.


 Why do you care about having to buy a product through a channel which (on paper, at least), doesn't appear to guarantee one's normal legal rights as a purchaser? Because you won't need those rights, because nothing could possibly go wrong.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

2cups said:


> Why do you care about having to buy a product through a channel which (on paper, at least), doesn't appear to guarantee one's normal legal rights as a purchaser? Because you won't need those rights, because nothing could possibly go wrong.


I like you being so sure, how can you? I am curious . Would you have said in 2019 that something like Covid will happen? Just an example.


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## 2cups (May 6, 2019)

profesor_historia said:


> I like you being so sure, how can you? I am curious   . Would you have said in 2019 that something like Covid will happen? Just an example.


 Apologies, I was being facetious????


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## EddieT (Oct 27, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> I still make the point, exactly what difference does it make to anyone, how Niche decide to sell their product? As long as orders are met, problems are resolved, then so what? In Scotland, for a long time in order to arrest a person there was 2 criteria. Firstly, there had to be 2 police officers and secondly, they had to have their caps on (as far as I am aware this is not urban myth or correct these days). So again, what possible relevance might this have? Filthy, once again you are getting all hot under the collar about something that has not happened, but in theory, possibly could happen........I suggest, with the greatest or respect, that you take a cold shower......LOL


 For some people, me included, the thought of parting with £500 knowing there is a slight chance you may not get anything to show for it, is quite nerve wracking. I know that's the point of crowd funding, but the point is this company have gone way past this stage in their development now and could choose to operate as a 'normal' company and not put their prospective customers through that. They surely have the funding to do that now. Obviously I understand it's their choice to operate this way and as a consumer it's my choice whether to take that punt.


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## Robert Fox (Apr 6, 2021)

I am not sure what their target demographic is. It would appear they don't want it out there for general availability on the market. I'm relatively new to the home coffee thing. I've been an enthusiast for a long while now but for me, I had one of the best speciality coffee places in Dublin literally a 3 minute walk from the office. COVID definitely converted me to a home enthusiast/prosumer.

I missed the boat on the initial indiegogo run (as did a lot of others by the looks of it!). I just don't think the Niche guys are ready for whatever their next move is. In my opinion, they still haven't gotten this right. Here's my own post moaning about trying to order with todays drop:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/58386-the-next-drop/?do=embed&comment=835847&embedComment=835847&embedDo=findComment



Are they bothered in the slightest about tackling the scalpers/bots?


Are they cautious of the risk of manufacturing in bulk to suddenly have orders stop coming in? Is the *current* demand COVID based? (more at-home 'baristas' 😅)


Are they trying to maintain the exclusivity of the Niche Zero? Is the demand based on exclusivity?


Do they not want to take on the additional workload of running their own webshop/store/ordering/payment system?


I don't quite get it. From reading reviews all over the web and on this forum, it appears they have an amazing product on their hands. I believe in it enough to hopefully soon have one on it's way to me.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Has anyone seen the website recently? Not sure what this means..


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Has anyone seen the website recently? Not sure what this means..
> View attachment 56767


 Looks like direct sales and no more indiegogo....?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The buy now goes to this page on a browser now

https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/products/niche-zero?variant=31208685076611

Showing sold out.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Looks like they may have grown up and opened their own webshop and cut ties with IndieGoGo.


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## NikC (May 6, 2020)

Looks like a good development- removes the ambiguity about what a perk is when backing the Indiegogo campaign when you actually want to buy the grinder.


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> I wasn't suggesting this was a debate. I was just wanting to know why Flats are desirable or preferred by some.


 I once liked flats until I started using a few different types of quality conicals, now flats have no real purpose for me. Yes I do like medium-medium dark coffees that I roast and conicals really give me the heavy/muddied taste and texture that I prefer that no flats have matched yet. The modern 'cutting edge fad' of the costly flats seems like more of an approach to try getting something drinkable from the lighter (underdeveloped) coffees some tend to focus on. The extractions resulting from that tend to be more clear with flavor separation, but also quite thin and IMBHO that just won't cut it for what I think espresso should be. The extractions some like are becoming more like tea these days, but to each their own.

As far as a possible V2 of the Niche, my vote would be to make the thing look decent. The current design is much too weak and looks like it was thought up by a 10 year old for a school project. Only thing I appreciate with it is the quality burr set, but the rest of the grinder sorta lets that down.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

shadow745 said:


> The current design is much too weak and looks like it was thought up by a 10 year old for a school project. Only thing I appreciate with it is the quality burr set, but the rest of the grinder sorta lets that down.


 £11,000,000 plus in sales revenue so far, plus they can sell everyone they can produce! Maybe I am missing something!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> £11,000,000 plus in sales revenue so far, plus they can sell everyone they can produce! Maybe I am missing something!


 Also despite the number sold try finding a used one. It isn't that unusual for some ones brand new wonder grinder to get sold not all that long after it was bought. It's a rare item in the coffee world really - more or less catch free. It does what it should do and does it well.  If only they would do the same with a flat rather than cobbled up collections of standard grinder bits. Thought experiments aren't much good on grinders. It's not just a matter of leaning them over.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

shadow745 said:


> As far as a possible V2 of the Niche, my vote would be to make the thing look decent. The current design is much too weak and looks like it was thought up by a 10 year old for a school project. Only thing I appreciate with it is the quality burr set, but the rest of the grinder sorta lets that down.





dfk41 said:


> £11,000,000 plus in sales revenue so far, plus they can sell everyone they can produce! Maybe I am missing something!


 @dfk41Comment makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider the fact that they would be investing significant capital in changing the look of the grinder, for no increase in sales, considering they sell out almost in 40 minutes once they have stock. What possible incentive can they have to invest money in changing how it looks? If they were not selling out immediately, and they had loads of unsold grinders...then perhaps..but they don't.

The other aspect to consider, what may be unattractive to you may not be to other people, e.g. the non coffee nut influencers in the house, who may value the look of the kitchen and resent the space the coffee gear takes up. Sales figures to date would make me think they have this right also.


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## NikC (May 6, 2020)

I was one of those a bit 'meh' on the looks, and hummed and hawed over which colour to go for. Both hard to judge from a website. Chose black in the end and the look has grown on me in the six months I've had it- form follows function and the grinder functions so well I appreciate the form as part of that.


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> £11,000,000 plus in sales revenue so far, plus they can sell everyone they can produce! Maybe I am missing something!


 I will simply say I wouldn't want one if it was FREE, lmao. Yes it's quite popular for the single dose craze, which doesn't appeal to everybody, and I still don't see how anybody really appreciates the childish/weak design. Yes we all have varying opinions, but still... just call me unimpressed!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

shadow745 said:


> I will simply say I wouldn't want one if it was FREE, lmao. Yes it's quite popular for the single dose craze, which doesn't appeal to everybody, and I still don't see how anybody really appreciates the childish/weak design. Yes we all have varying opinions, but still... just call me unimpressed!


 Have you ever used one, or had coffee ground from one? Aesthetics are hugely subjective and personal. It doesn't influence what ends in the cup though!


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

i think it looks ace and i'm right.


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Have you ever used one, or had coffee ground from one? Aesthetics are hugely subjective and personal. It doesn't influence what ends in the cup though!


 Sure haven't and won't bother... yes aesthetics are subjective and I find it to look like a joke, so that's what matters to me. I have an awesome hand grinder that gives me the highest quality espresso in the demitasse I've ever had and it is my endgame grinder no doubt. Even my electric sits as a backup and hardly used these days. More power to those that have/like the Niche, but not all of us are impressed. Variety in grinders/machines these days is on par with coffees available as in a seemingly endless amount.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

The look, the feel and the taste are relative and personal. The stylish, the beautiful and the quality ones cost at least 3x more, if I am not wrong. The NZ does a very good job to a lot of experienced folks here at an attractive and an affordable price. The choice is fairly straightforward IMHO. Period.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@shadow745 So, aesthetics matter more to you than taste? Interesting. I bet your house is filled with design classics. So, tell us about this awesome hand grinder you own and use. A grinder is only a set of burrs at the end of the day, and the Niche uses the pretty well respected Mazzer Kony. burr set. Not the biggest nor the best but nonetheless, they cost roughly a third of the price the Niche sells for.

You seem vey keen to diss the Niche. We get that the grinder would not have a home in your kitchen, but an awful lot of folks would disagree with you. You too, must be a single dose chap unless a new hand grinder with hopper has come to the market that I have missed


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@shadow745 -

Your post above sums up.

You are happy with what you've got, it's your end game&#8230; for you. Other people may think whatever you've got is a joke (I have no idea what you have, so no disrespect). All I'm saying is that's all relative.

No one here is saying the Niche is the best grinder ever. But it's unrivalled as an electric single dose grinder within that price range, with a proven track record. As you say however, there are new ones coming to market now at a similar price range, which is a good thing.

I would however like to know what kit you have. I had two hand grinders before the Niche and I enjoyed them - I do prefer the convenience of an electric grinder. In fact, my Kinu M68 was replaced with the Niche. 😊


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> @shadow745 You seem vey keen to diss the Niche. We get that the grinder would not have a home in your kitchen, but an awful lot of folks would disagree with you. You too, must be a single dose chap unless a new hand grinder with hopper has come to the market that I have missed


 He is absolutely allowed to diss anything as much as he likes.....as we are, to disagree with his opinion. In a way, thank god we don't all like the same thing.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@DavecUK I have no problem wit him dissing the Niche, after all, thats his opinion, and we can all have opinions. I was just trying to scratch below the substance


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @shadow745 -
> 
> Your post above sums up.
> 
> ...


 The Helor 106/Flux as I finally found one recently as I had interest in it for a few years. Have always preferred hand grinding (for espresso of course) and it is spot on in every way for my use/expectations.

I won't dog others for whatever they choose to use, but the hype around a simple grinder is a bit much. People should stop reading into much of what is hyped on forums and realize there are plenty of fantastic grinders available. Just throwing my .02 out there on what a V2 Niche could/should be and the total opposite of what it currently is would likely be awesome, lmao.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

What Nz offered when they hit the market was a niche market opportunity at a quality and a competitive price. There wasn't much quality choice at these price range, if I were interested in an electric single doser.

Glad we have Solo and more in the pipeline.

This forum isn't a hype and I rather find it balanced and mindful of what one may be looking for.


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