# Niche Zero espresso grind setting



## Clifford (Dec 7, 2017)

So I upgraded from a Sage DTP to a Niche Zero - I couldn't resist the lure of a discount through the Indiegogo campaign. Generally, I love the design, quietness and functionality of the Niche, but I'm struggling to find the ideal grind setting for good espresso. The adjustment ring on the Niche has espresso marked as a grind setting in the range


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Check calibration of your Niche, there is video on that. I use mine in 9-12 region for espresso only.

BR


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

If it's choking the machine then just keep going coarser 1 marking at a time till you get a shot you're happy with. The markings are just there as a general guideline.

Also it might be worth watching @DaveC's video on how to make sure your adjustment ring is properly calibrated.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Several people have found that the pour starts later than other grinders. For instance my flow started 7 to 8 secs after a button press. That changed to 10 and as the machine was set for 10 sec pre infusion at a lower pressure the pump sometimes stalled. Curiously the output didn't shift more than it usually does with this grinder. I use a fixed 30sec shot so flow rates when it does start must be higher than they were as I am still using the same nominal ratio. I do get more variation in output but some of that may be down to the burs needing to condition.

John

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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

My guess Clifford is that you have calibrated your Niche (or the current position if you haven't touched it) lightly so that your numbers are higher (seemingly coarser on the scale) than perhaps other people. It makes sense to calibrate to the same tightness as other people for easier reference but it doesn't matter as long as you get to know what numbers work for your grinder.

As a prractical exmaple for the past few weeks I was typically 9 for Costa Rican and 11 Ethiopian/Brazilian. I cleaned my Niche on Sunday and re-calibrated but must have done so more gently than before because my Ethiopian is now right at 21 (DC pointed out to me I probably tightened too much before). So I mentally adjust to 21 straight away and will start Costa Rican at 19 and Brazilian at 21, and so on for other coffees. If you know the number of adjustment for one coffee relative to another this makes life easier and through the years you get to know how Monsoon Malabar grinds relative to Java Blawan to Colombian to Brazilian to Kenyan and so on.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

What's your dosage?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Hasi said:


> What's your dosage?


I love meaningful, direct, incisive and sensible clarification questions before advice is offered. Yours is the first question that should have been asked.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Is that video showing the correct way to calibrate? All she does, is move the ring with the dot to calibrate. I thought the right way, was to close the burrs until they touch, then move the ring with the dot to catch the calibrate mark, then wind the burrs back placing the dot at the desired place......or am I wrong again?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As above , is your grinder calibrated?

The next thing that effects flow is dose , the higher the dose the more resistance (at same grind setting )

Lastly roast level impacts how coarse or fine you have to grind.

If you calibrate correctly then I wouldn't fuss over the range you are on the dial as long as it's in normalish parameters ( not in filter range )


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Is @Hasi post invisible or something...I could read it just fine?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

I'll try again, then











Hasi said:


> What's your dosage?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Is that video showing the correct way to calibrate? All she does, is move the ring with the dot to calibrate. I thought the right way, was to close the burrs until they touch, then move the ring with the dot to catch the calibrate mark, then wind the burrs back placing the dot at the desired place......or am I wrong again?


Shows it as much too simple. - Davec's method is much easier to follow.

Don't know about anyone else but the black ring on mine is a swine to move independantly of the funnel.

Maybe a good thing...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Is that video showing the correct way to calibrate? All she does, is move the ring with the dot to calibrate. I thought the right way, was to close the burrs until they touch, then move the ring with the dot to catch the calibrate mark, then wind the burrs back placing the dot at the desired place......or am I wrong again?


Yes 100% correct and use reasonable pressure and clean burs.

What dose ? Also what output is needed or ratio if you like, grams in to grams out.

John

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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Gotta laugh at Hasi and DC's posts, spot on of course. I had made the assumption the OP isn't standing on the tamper to squeeze a huge amount into the basket and wrenching the portafilter round choking the poor shower screen.

for a long time I used around 13g give or take into my single basket until DC casually pointed out one day that a gentle turn of the portafilter (which I was doing) was still leaving a shower screen impression on the puck. Cue scales and attention to a reduced basket fill consistently 11.5g these days. Whilst I know bean density can have an affect my usual roasting (ending just before 2nd arrives) has a consistent level between coffees. So, I'll hang mny head in shame with others for not asking the obvious question.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I love meaningful, direct, incisive and sensible clarification questions before advice is offered. Yours is the first question that should have been asked.


You make it sound like it happened for the first time on this forum.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

PPapa said:


> You make it sound like it happened for the first time on this forum.


And that made my day!!


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## Clifford (Dec 7, 2017)

Hasi said:


> What's your dosage?


I usually use 18g of coffee


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Clifford said:


> I usually use 18g of coffee


In what basket


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I use a 20gms VST basket & grind 20 gms into it.

I only enjoy darker roasts & currently using Baytown Boggle Hole.

So for me its 20gms in with 42gms out in finished espresso at 89C. after 40 secs

At this Niche marking:-


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

40sec seems like an awfully long time. I was always told to try for 18 in 36ish out and in 28sec. I was taught that after that the extraction gets more and more sour.

They are the numbers that I am always trying to dial my grinder and machine to...am I doing wrong?


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## Clifford (Dec 7, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> In what basket


The standard double espresso one that comes with the Cherub.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

He numbers are guidelines and cannot, unless they are all calibrated at the same "zero", be translated to someone else's grinder.

Ignore the numbers. Dial in as usual.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

joe said:


> 40sec seems like an awfully long time. I was always told to try for 18 in 36ish out and in 28sec. I was taught that after that the extraction gets more and more sour.
> 
> They are the numbers that I am always trying to dial my grinder and machine to...am I doing wrong?


Doing wrong - no.

But with espresso extraction of sour notes is high at the beginning and tapers off, extraction of bitters starts slow and gets higher with time.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

With the Beans I use I don't find the time particularly relevant. Also remember that total time includes 10 secs pre infusion.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tohenk2 said:


> Doing wrong - no.
> 
> But with espresso extraction of sour notes is high at the beginning and tapers off, extraction of bitters starts slow and gets higher with time.


At the same grind setting, bitterness increases with output in the cup. A short 50s shot can be sour. A long 30s shot can be bitter.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

MWJB said:


> At the same grind setting, bitterness increases with output in the cup. A short 50s shot can be sour. A long 30s shot can be bitter.


off course

For espresso this means either flow/pressure profiling or dose adjustment. (Since grind setting is the same and time differs)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tohenk2 said:


> off course
> 
> For espresso this means either flow/pressure profiling or dose adjustment. (Since grind setting is the same and time differs)


Flow/pressure profiling isn't really relevant. Grinder & bean differences will mean a difference in shot time for the same result in terms of extraction.

Best to go by grinder setting & weight in cup, because time has a larger variation than extraction.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Did I read 18g in the standard Fracino 14g double by the OP and then some one jumping in with similar in a 20g VST?

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Did I read 18g in the standard Fracino 14g double by the OP and then some one jumping in with similar in a 20g VST?
> 
> John
> 
> -


Whatever a standard double cherub basket is , doubt its 14g though .


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Whatever a standard double cherub basket is , doubt its 14g though .


I'm pretty sure it is as I have a standard 14g Fracino basket. Next one up is an after market triple.

I'd suggest a 5p or 1p coin test - no impression.

John

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## Clifford (Dec 7, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Did I read 18g in the standard Fracino 14g double by the OP and then some one jumping in with similar in a 20g VST?
> 
> John
> 
> -


You're right - didn't occur to me that I've been overloading the basket (I'm revealing my noob stupidity with every post).

I've only gone with 18g on the basis of the recommendation on a coffee 101 website... time to dial back that dose.


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

Dialed in a 9 on the Niche on 14.3g of beans for the Pavoti, after my first few days of ownership resulted in experimenting on it without a lot of luck!

First time I got the crema to show more than a surface film, and a fairly drinkable espresso appeared.

I was using Horsham Coffee Roasters Brazil Recanto (Acaia) that was roasted on 07/10/19.

Tried it on a small french press jobbie too! Moved the Niche to the 50 mark using 17g of beans. Let it bloom on 50g water for 30 secs with a bit of a surface stir, then filled up to around the 220g mark, then let it stand for just over 3 mins. It tasted great!

Will keep a closer eye on weight and timings in the morning and get this hopefully more tied down.


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