# The other way round...



## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Hi all - first post. Been reading a fair bit and got the point that the grinder is more important than the machine in many ways. Unfortunately I have a combined budget of around £250 for machine and grinder - what combo would people recommend?

Or alternatively, say I was going to buy a De Longhi KG79 grinder - what machine would be "suited" to a very basic grinder? The De Longhi EC 250.B is just £65, with the KG79 at £32 - a cheap set up that I should be able to get a half decent strong Americano / Latte from?

Just struggling a little as most of the grinders on here are out of my price league, so thought I need to take a step back and lower my (initial) expectations and maybe upgrade in 12-18 months if I want.

I'm starting out so don't want to spend too much, but want a nice strong black coffee!

Cheers!

TheBoy


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You might want to wait and see on here as I think Charlie might be moving on a complete setup very soon.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Is a nice strong black coffee an double espresso, or do you want a bigger drink?

If the answer is a bigger drink, I would advise you to look at buying a decent hand grinder, an aeropress and/or a Hario v60. That will come in at well under £250 allowing you to buy some decent coffee from one of the roasters listed under the beans subforum, and you can make some delicious coffee with that setup. For the hand grinder the madebyknock hausgrind is getting excellent reviews, but if you want to save money the Porlex will suffice.

The delonghi grinder isn't really suitable for any form of espresso. The machines are also rubbish, I owned one for a while and have seen a few others and they arent worth the money or hassle. If you want the espresso route then you can look at a Gaggia Classic and a second hand grinder (see classifieds here) or a new Ibertial MC2 will put you slightly over budget.

If you want a larger drink though, then you are just adding the double espresso to hot water to make a larger drink - which makes the first option preferable IMO.


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

TheBoy said:


> Hi all - first post. Been reading a fair bit and got the point that the grinder is more important than the machine in many ways. Unfortunately I have a combined budget of around £250 for machine and grinder - what combo would people recommend?
> 
> Or alternatively, say I was going to buy a De Longhi KG79 grinder - what machine would be "suited" to a very basic grinder? The De Longhi EC 250.B is just £65, with the KG79 at £32 - a cheap set up that I should be able to get a half decent strong Americano / Latte from?
> 
> ...


The classic second hand combo as you can see from the stickie in the newbie section is a Gaggia Classic, £90 - £100, and an Iberital MC2 £70 - £80 and a tamper, say £15 so its possible to start up for well under £200. I paid £165 for this combination (bought separately from this forum) last August. Have since upgraded grinder to Eureka Mignon, but that was more a case of upgradeitis than necessity. If you keep the kit carefully and clean (use filtered water in the Gaggia, descale and backflush regularly)you can sell on later with very little loss. If you want new kit for espresso then there isn't a solution under £250, would have to be the aeropress route.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

As Coffeechap has said I'll be moving on a complete setup very shortly it will be my Pre-Phillips Classic which has had a new group gasket and shower screen last October and will be backflushed and descaled before it goes, I live in a soft water area and have been feeding it Brita filtered anyway. Included will be Made by Knock 58mm Heft Tamper, Grindenstein knock box, 2 normal portafilters, 1 bottomless portafilter, 2 standard double and 1 single basket, LM Strada/ VST 17g basket, LM (unscanned Strada) 21g basket,tamping mat, 2 shot glasses, a milk pitcher with temptag on it, a 100g/0.1g set of jewellers scales and the as brand new Sage Smart Grinder I had for review, which has seen hardly any use- has had 1kg max of coffee through it. Also will be 4 x flat white.cappa cups and saucers if the Acme cups deal happens soon. It will appear in the sales forum with pictures very soon.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Moving on to Tea Charlie ?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Take off the listed gear from my signature and see what's left lol


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Thank you all for taking the time to reply here, much appreciated. I'll reply individually if thats ok, as it seems that the second hand route may be the way forward and i need 5 posts i think to look at the classifieds!

Aaronb, thank you for your detailed response, sorry i wasn't so clear - i guess because in reality i don't know! i used to always used a bodum for my coffee, but last year i bought a nespresso machine for the convenience. I do like the coffee, although its not amazing it provides a quick drinkable espresso shot with minimal fuss. I've recently started working from home and i need 3-4 pods in the morning for a decent coffee which is expensive and still only average quality. Hence here i am looking to get more serious and learn the trade!

I think I'd be making double / triple espressos and adding hot water to be honest, as I find this better than the french press. I live in Thailand and have a good contact direct with a coffee grower up in the far North who can send me very fresh coffee at very reasonable rates. My parents will come out next month and are (reluctantly...) willing to bring over a machine but need to keep the total weight of everything to around 14kg!

If I went for a new Gaggia Classic, would the hand grinder that you mentioned suffice for espresso, either the porlex or the hausgrind? Or are these only really suitable for the aeropress?


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Chris - thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I can see that the second hand route would make sense,I'm just slightly concerned over the reliability as I'm living overseas and so it is more difficult to get these things repaired if they play up! i'll have a close look at the classifieds though as new will be out of my budget unfortunately.

It seems like the Gaggia and MC2 is the way to go...


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Charlie, interesting set up, I look forward to seeing your advert when you are ready, hopefully I'll have the required posts to view it by then ;-)

Any idea of the combined weight of the machine and grinder?


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Ahh, I mis read that I need 10 for the classifieds, yikes! Maybe I should join Charlie with the tea?!


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Spend that £250 on a grinder and I'll sell you a De'longhi fo £30.....


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Secondly, if you are only in it for the caffeine and don't have any particular allegiance to espresso, then something like pour-over can initially be much cheaper and is pretty easy to make.

The proportion of caffeine between the two is roughly the same, but brewed can often be much larger with higher gram doses and often can taste better - as its easier to prepare.

If you just want quality coffee for now, why not try your hand at pour over or something?

French press is the easiest way to make coffee ever, you just grind, then leave it, anywhere upto an hour and it will taste pretty good.

Finally, for pure caffeine content, go with a light roast.

Caffeine is one of the more volatile components of coffee, first to extract (hence why brewed and espresso have the same proportion of caffeine per gram dose) and some of it can be burnt off when going darker.

So darker roasts are often less caffeine-full than lighter ones.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yep, as Kyle548 says and as I said earlier I think you should go the brewed route really. Look at an aeropress + porlex combo. Cheap, small, easy to use (lots of guides on the internet). Maybe get the metal filter disk too so you don't have to worry about paper ones.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I saw in another thread a user has a Chemex he doesn't seem to want.

I'm drinking Chemex now.

Brewed is a little stronger than recommended I think, coming in at almost 6 mins with a Has Bean Bolivian and its great.

Strong taste and a nice mouth-feel.

It's a little like overly concentrated black-current concentrate, but the taste is more nutty I guess?

Chemex is like the easy man's pour-over as it's pretty self contained, even though you will still need a pour-over kettle (or an oil kettle, if your cheap), scales and filters.

The other cones tend to work better if you have a carafe too.


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Hi Kyle

Many thanks for your replies and sharing your thoughts. I will research more in to this Chemex now and see if I can find the other thread you refer to. Brewed does seem a lot easier and lighter. Perhaps it is all I need and the machine grinder is more for the hobby / fun element!

How would you compare the coffee that you drink now in your Chemex to a French Press, all else being equal?

TheBoy


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

Hi Aaronb

Yes - back to the brewed idea indeed! Just watched a guy on YouTube make a coffee with your recommended aeropress and porlex. He seemed to have to grind it quite a lot - I'm figuring maybe 5 min of grinding if I am making coffee for 2?

This approach seems to pretty much make espresso shots from what I saw - the guy in the video made 2 shots in one time, and then added about 50% more hot water for a long drink. Am I right in thinking that you could make a decent Latte using this approach, where as the French Press / Chemex would be less suited for a Latte?

Many thanks once again!

TheBoy


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

You can make strong coffee with an aeropress but if is not espresso, it doesn't have crema and you can't make a latte with it. A latte requires an espresso machine. Unless you're a prior members great grandma who apparently invented the drink with a microwave and a jam jar. Stuff of legends.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah the aeropress doesn't make espresso. It makes a strong clean brewed coffee. You don't have to dilute it, I prefer it just being used to make one cup, otherwise it can be too watery and bordering on underextraction.

If you want a real latte you need an espresso machine, as you need a steam wand.


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## TheBoy (Jan 28, 2014)

LOL - Ive been called some things in life but never a prior members great grandma!!









I must say - I think AeroPress would be fine for my morning coffee, but I want to learn how to pour shots and learn the trade!

Charlie - any idea when you might be posting your stuff, if you are still selling it?


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## aodstratford (Sep 18, 2012)

Spend all that money on the grinder! I didn't listen to advice and had a frustrating time with mediocre coffee. Good grinder changed everything!


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