# First weeks with my Fracino Piccino



## thjxw05 (Feb 6, 2012)

Well, it arrived! 3 weeks ago.

Cannot fault the service from espresso underground or Francino.

Delivery was more than a little odd as it came via palletways - I think they are more akin to delivery to the likes of Tesco than a side street in Bracknell!







All credit to the artic driver though how managed to get the lorry backwards down my road and passed the parked cars!









As been said the machine come very well packed - not commercial but a big brown box and inside my shinny new coffee.

Start up instruction are simple to follow, place filter in machine, fill with water and plug in, draw a little water through the group head and steam wand and your away.

Overall results on my fist shot - deadfall! The machine takes a little getting used to but 3 weeks in I can pull a decent shot of coffee and steam milk to a reasonable standard.

So 1st thought are - well built machine, that feels very solid, dual boilers are quick to heat up and it will produce more steam than you will ever need!Very pleased

Only a could of negatives to mention - the steam wand has a "lip" at the bottom making it impossible to clean, the Brita filters for the water tank are hard to find and decaling the machine according to the instructions means returning the machine to Francino....

If you're looking for a great machine I would recommended this one with our any doubt.


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## Fracino (May 16, 2012)

Hi thjxw05,

Glad you're enjoying your new Piccino! You can purchase replacement Brita water filters for the tank directly through our website if you click the link.

If you change your water filter regularly you will never need to send your machine back to us for a descale!

I hope your Piccino continues to please!

All the best,

Fracino


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Good to see manufacturers getting involved with the forum, I'm sure that information will be valuable to a lot of Piccino owners.


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

Yep, couldn't agree more!


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## Fracino (May 16, 2012)

We are here and happy to answer any questions or queries you may have.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

re the steam wand - you can unscrew the tip easily to clean it more thoroughly.


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## thjxw05 (Feb 6, 2012)

Unscrew the steam wand? It looks like its welded on.....

Re the filter, the deliver cost of £10.00 on something so small seems very steep!


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I don't remove the whole wand but do occasionally unscrew the tip from the wand. I only do it up finger tight so it's simple to remove next time it wants a clean. It's simple to clean both parts thoroughly then.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I was going to give similar feedback on the postage cost of the Brita filters. I believe its due to the fact that the website doesn't do the weight postage calculation. I called fracino and ordered over the phone for a better rate, however it would be nice to order online for ease. In fact, there are many improvements that could be made on the retail site. That said, i gather its not Fracino's primary market.

Aside from that, I've found all staff at Fracino remarkably helpful when buying and replacing bits, seeking advice etc. First class customer service.


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## Fracino (May 16, 2012)

Thank you for your kind comments Monkey_Devil. You are right in saying that it is a £10 fixed price for postage on the Fracino4U website, we are currently looking at ways to improve this. In the meantime it would be best to call or email our spares department, who would charge you around £6 postage for the filter.








[email protected]








0121 328 5757


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Do you think the filter would be unnecessary in a soft water area like Yorkshire, no limescale ever.

Ian


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Gah, me and another forum member would like to be able to join this discussion no doubt but we've both been waiting for our machines to be built for the past few weeks


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I am also waiting but hoping next week is the magic week.

I heard its to do with faulty LEDs or similar on the Piccino.

Can't wait to get my Cherub!


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## thjxw05 (Feb 6, 2012)

£6 is better than £10 I guess but the true cost of the posting cannot be more the 2-3 pounds add in a jiffy bag and thats quite a profit on the posting!

That said its a bit of a hobsons choice so I will have to order!

If your waiting for your machine - I'm sorry but they are worth the wait! - I too waited a few weeks for mine but good things take time.

Re this steam wand - I still cannot see it unscews short of taking a wrench to it:bad:..


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

before










after


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## thjxw05 (Feb 6, 2012)

Bingo, thanks done it now that will make life easier many thanks, will unwind once a week with my back flushing.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Does anyone know how much its cost to keep a Piccino running. Have mine on order and should be getting it next week.


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## CoffeeMate (Jun 8, 2012)

Hello all,

I am a newbie here having just joined the forum last week. This looks like a great place to learn and share all the ins and outs of coffee making.

My Fracino Picinno arrived yesterday and I hope it will not be long before I can get the results I am happy with.

My previous machine for the past three years was a Gaggia Classic and I was quite fond of it as I was able to get good results although not as consistent as I would like, hence the upgrade.

I have made eight double shots or so and can't seem to get it right, starting with the grind setting on my iberital Mc2 grinder I had used with the Gaggia Classic. I will have to play with the grind and the weight of the beans as well as the tamp pressure and try and get it right.

The Picinno is a great looking machine and I decided to get it instead of the Cherub due to size limitations. It is larger than the Gaggia but still fits perfectly on a tray which makes it easier for me to pull it forward when topping it up with water.

I have followed the directions that came with it and installed the water filter although I live in the North East where the water is soft. I hope I will not have to continue to use it.

The handle of the portafilter when making a shot is not pointing straight out as it says it should in the manual. I have had to turn it more to the right in order for it to fit properly. I do not know if this is an issue. I was told shims were available to correct this.

Frothing and steaming is tricky. Because the steam comes out at an angle it is hard for me to find the sweet spot quickly and because it can steam the milk so quickly my attempts so far have not been great. I have a lot to learn.

It is great to find a thread about this machine.

I am looking forward to pulling some great shots. Just hope I don't have to wait too long.


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

Welcome to the Forum CoffeeMate - glad to see another North Easterner on here, there's a few of us kicking about! Nice purchase with the Piccino and I'm sure that some time spent getting to know the machine will produce some great results! Enjoy


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## thomss (May 9, 2011)

Got me thinking about this machine now! currently have a Classic with Silvia wand and looking for something that can make espresso and steam milk at the same time or very close together!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Welcome coffemate, the milk steaming after using a gaggia is a problem others have reported on. The manual suggests that you should listen for the 'sweet-spot' where the tone in the noise the steam wand makes changes. Read the milk steaming part of the Piccino manual carefully and follow its advice, I know that has worked for another forum member on here.

Goof luck, once you have it sorted you will be making great coffee I'm sure


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Eyedee said:


> Do you think the filter would be unnecessary in a soft water area like Yorkshire, no limescale ever.
> 
> Ian


Hi Ian, I would take a 'better safe than sorry approach' as even a tiny amount of limescale can build up. However if you are confident there is zero limescale and you don't feel the water tastes better after being filtered then the 'need' may be almost nil.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Just got my Piccino today. In the instructions is says the pressure gauge should be 1.0 - 1.2 bar. Mine is 2 increments below this. Is this ok?


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Mine sits between that range.

Although I've got leakage coming from the showerhead














Which way does the steam wand unscrew lads?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Can you screw the portafilter in any further?

Also make sure group gasket is clean of any dirt.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

@petrebos the wand tip undoes as if you're removing a screw


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Could have over filled the portafilter or a knackered gasket IMHO

Ian



petebetros said:


> Mine sits between that range.
> 
> Although I've got leakage coming from the showerhead
> 
> ...


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## BongoSteve (Apr 10, 2012)

Pete I think I had the same problem as you when I first started playing with the machine this week. I even emailed about it, and was offered a few suggestions of things to try. As it turned out I was grinding too fine for the machine, and hence the leak when I tried to pull a shot - there were quite a lot of clumps to be fair. I ground a bit coarser and I've not had a problem since. I was concerned for the first couple of days though! I think it's also quite sensitive to weight. The only time I've had any leaking since was tonight when I got a bit lazy and didn't bother weighing, and tried to judge by eye. I've now settled at about 15-16g into the double basket which seems to work for me.

Hope its nothing too serious mate, after all the waiting!


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## CoffeeMate (Jun 8, 2012)

I am having the same issue with my new Picinno. it does not happen all the time, in fact I thought i had solved the problem when I found using 17g in the double basket at grind setting that allowed me to pull a shot in 25 seconds worked a treat.

Tonight using the same method I had leaking during the last half of pulling both double shots.

I made sure the shower screen and gasket were clean each time as well as the portafiler basket before putting it into the machine.

I really would like to know if this leaking is human error as I think it might be or if it is a fault.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

hope you get the leakage problem sorted! So its not worth contacting them about the slightly low pressure for the steam?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

This is interesting as I've had a few leaks from My cherub which has a different group design but I imagine probably dispersion screen and basket are the same.

It can be attributed to human error based on the design of the group head/dispersion screen and the height of coffee in the basket.

I've cured this hundred percent of the time by dosing less and tamping a bit harder (I was probably tamping unnecessarily light before).

This means the puck sits lower in the basket and so leaves more space between puck and dispersion screen. No problems at all now.

Hopefully this works for Piccino too.

Edit: also make sure you are locking the portafilter in all the way, past 6 o'clock if necessary.


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## CoffeeMate (Jun 8, 2012)

I have had to turn the portafilter so that the handle is acutally to my right to get it to tighten and fit the way it should. When I tried my bottomless portafilter I used with my Gaggia it did not have to be turned so far. Could this be due to the filter basket itself?

I will try dosing at a lower weight as suggested to try and solve the leaking problem.

The low water alarm has sounded a few times now when the water tank has been quite full. I have tried moving the water tank around a bit and the alarm eventually stops but I am not sure why it has sounded and what I did to stop it if anything.

Has anyone else had a problem with the alarm?

I find it a bit tricky getting the water tank out of the machine and trying to move it when full (because of the alarm) is almost impossible.

I hope removing the water tank gets easier as I get used to it.


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

Would have to say that I've not experienced any leaks from around the portafilter or group head of the piccino. Overfilling/adjusting the grind to something coarser should be ruled out and then look for mechanical defects. I dose 18g into the double basket, and it works fine - about 32 g of liquid in 25 seconds.

The low water alarm went off for the first time this weekend, when the water was actually very low. If yours is going off randomly then check the water tank is correctly in place. I never remove mine, I always take the water to the machine and pour in from a jug or kettle.

Dan

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Is anyone getting water leaking when Backflushing? I count to around 7 seconds and water starts spilling over? Have also noticed grounds of coffee in the water tank?


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

Maybe the portafilter need securing more firmly than other machines - I don't have a prior machine to compare with? I use a fair amount of force because I got leaking (mostly when backflushing) occasionally. It's been a long time since it last happened.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Tried even more force, around 93 degrees and seems fine. can get up to 30 seconds now. But at 90 degrees (facing me) it leaks. Do you think this is a fault or that you just have to put more force into it when back flushing. I'm waiting for my grinder, so can't test it.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

No it's not a fault. The manual is poorly worded - having the portafilter at 90 degrees doesn't matter. I couldn't get my portafilter to 90 degrees & Fracino said the actual angle varies a bit and isn't important.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

ah ok..Thanks for that. 90 degrees does not seem tight! I guess its the same with the pressure Im about two increments down from 1 bar. Also, I noticed a few bits of coffee bits floating in the water tank?


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

0.8 sounds a bit low to me. I believe all this means that frothing milk will take a bit longer (which may not be a bad thing if you're a noob and generally foam small volumes). Mine's factory set at 1.2.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

IS it something that they have to set? It gets up to 1 then slowly goes back down.


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

AlIam said:


> I couldn't get my portafilter to 90 degrees & Fracino said the actual angle varies a bit and isn't important.


Are you guys allowing the machine to warm up properly? Once it's warm (1/2 hr), the portafilter will travel round a few more degrees (without excessive force) and theoretically your seal against the group head should be a better one.

Dan

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Think I may give them a ring about the steam pressure being a bit low


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I didn't realise a warm machine got a better seal but am aware that it makes tastier coffee. My machine's on a timer so it's already hot when I wake up. How much force ought I be using to seal the portafilter? If I do it up one handed, I won't get a seal - I need to apply gentle pressure against the machine to stop it sliding to get it tight enough.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Rang Fracino and spoke to a engineer. They are sending me a 8 1/2 new rubber seal as the standard is 8. So that should fix it.


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

A couple of us early owners had a replacement brass fitting under the shower screeen to cure a leak to the edge of the shower screen. Also check the shower screen is tightened! Also the advice to fill the basket less with coffee is sound. Should be able to tamp as normal if the dose is correct (to the line in the PF basket). Over-dosing just leads to trouble all round.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

How do I check if there shower screen is tightened? What and where should I look!


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

AlIam said:


> I didn't realise a warm machine got a better seal but am aware that it makes tastier coffee. My machine's on a timer so it's already hot when I wake up. How much force ought I be using to seal the portafilter? If I do it up one handed, I won't get a seal - I need to apply gentle pressure against the machine to stop it sliding to get it tight enough.


Metal expands when heated, hence the portafilter will turn a few more degrees. You shouldn't have to force it, if you do you'll increase the rate of wear and tear on the machine. I would call Fracino and explain the issue to them. They may be able to help.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk 2


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## dobber (Jun 22, 2012)

Good to see manufacturers getting involved with the forum, I'm sure that information will be valuable to a lot of Piccino owners.

agreed also bit late, hay ho


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> How do I check if there shower screen is tightened? What and where should I look!


Just a single screw holding it in place


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> Think I may give them a ring about the steam pressure being a bit low


It sounds like the pressurestat is set to 1 bar which is about right. This means that the pressure will go up to 1 bar and then drop down to a lower point (usually 0.15-0.2 bar lower). The pressure will be maintained between these two points as the boiler is heated. This is called the dead-band.


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

BongoSteve said:


> Pete I think I had the same problem as you when I first started playing with the machine this week. I even emailed about it, and was offered a few suggestions of things to try. As it turned out I was grinding too fine for the machine, and hence the leak when I tried to pull a shot - there were quite a lot of clumps to be fair. I ground a bit coarser and I've not had a problem since. I was concerned for the first couple of days though! I think it's also quite sensitive to weight. The only time I've had any leaking since was tonight when I got a bit lazy and didn't bother weighing, and tried to judge by eye. I've now settled at about 15-16g into the double basket which seems to work for me.
> 
> Hope its nothing too serious mate, after all the waiting!


Cheers lads, I've been spending all afternoon messing with dosage, grind and tamp and didn't have any leakage problems until I reached a certain grind fineness and then it leaked out the showerhead. Annoyingly when I grind coarser I get a horrid espresso so I guess I still need to find the sweetspot between the two.

I too get leakage when backflushing on the second time though - first go through when the sound of the pump changes I switch off and it backflushes fine. Try again and water goes everywhere; on my Gaggia Classic I only needed to flick the switch for another few seconds and it'd backflush again.

How vital is it to tamp to the embossed rim in the basket guys? Again something I'm struggling with as weighing 18g and grinding course enough to equal the rim after tamping gives me a horrible coffee. Grinding finer and getting a better one brings the top of the puck quite a bit lower but then I get leakage.

I'm going to have to contact Fracino as the left LED doesn't work on mine.


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## BongoSteve (Apr 10, 2012)

What about reducing the dose, would that work? Don't think I've gone as high as 18g, I found it worked best for me around 15 or 16g. I'm definitely not an expert though, and this might be rubbish advice...


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I would second Bongosteve's suggestion of reducing the dose. There are three (well four if you include the inherent resistence of the basket itself) factors which affect the resistence to the brew water: the grind, the size of the dose and the tamp pressure. To increase extraction (reducing sour-ness) generally you should tighten the grind and/or decrease the dose.

The group gaskets are usually pretty good at creating a seal so if you are getting leaking I would suggest it is not sealing properly. This is most likely caused by debris on the gasket. Try giving the gasket a really good clean with a group cleaning brush. The cafelat ones are particularly good at getting rid of debris on the gasket.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## CoffeeMate (Jun 8, 2012)

This is interesting. I have just now been experimenting with the dose for my Piccino as well. I just had my best shot of the day using 16g of beans weighed before grinding. i am sure this might be different when using another type or brand (variety ) of bean. Maybe someone could clarify that.

I also tried swapping the basket that was in my Gaggia portafilter as it is the same size, thinking I could use that as well. It even seemed to tighten more quickly creating the seal. However the 16g poured through so quickly I decided to just use the filter basket basket supplied. I had been hoping to be able to use my naked portafilter from my Gaggia but I guess I will just have to wait and see.

I remember reading where someone had used 18g and got great results.

I think the key element that I don't have just right is the grinder setting on my MC2. This although simple in principle has been somewhat a mystery as I have tried in the past so many different grind settings and when I seem to just about get it right things will just change again. I do find it a struggle.

The 16g with my grinder setting as it is now gave me a double shot in 30 seconds. Whether I should make my grind a bit coarser or use more than 16g of beans is the question I have now. I have turned the grinder knob half a turn to try the next time but i am never really sure how to go about getting it right

Ah, I do enjoy the challenge but I may enjoy the latte art struggle more.


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Dosing 16g at espresso grind won't reach the embossed rim of the filter basket no? You boys not worrying about that then?

16g shot coming up after me dinner....


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

I tend to dose to the embossed rim and then the tamp takes it just below. I never weigh just measure by eye. PF fits fine with that. Over-dose and it all gets messy and the PF sometimes will not fit at all. Definitely err on under rather than over dosing with this machine. I find I can grind pretty fine but what is fine for me may not be for others I guess. Getting the grind and dose right was the key for me on this machine and it is incredibly consistent for espresso. I still struggle with milk foaming but that is me and I need a barista course I think.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

CoffeeMate said:


> This is interesting. I have just now been experimenting with the dose for my Piccino as well. I just had my best shot of the day using 16g of beans weighed before grinding. i am sure this might be different when using another type or brand (variety ) of bean. Maybe someone could clarify that.


Different doses will suit different coffees - generally I find denser and more acidic coffees (often those that are more lightly roasted or were grown at high altitudes) suit a lower dose and finer grind because they yield their solids less readily. Bear in mind that changing dose will require a change to the grind to maintain the same flow rate.



CoffeeMate said:


> I also tried swapping the basket that was in my Gaggia portafilter as it is the same size, thinking I could use that as well. It even seemed to tighten more quickly creating the seal. However the 16g poured through so quickly I decided to just use the filter basket basket supplied. I had been hoping to be able to use my naked portafilter from my Gaggia but I guess I will just have to wait and see.


Unfortunately I don't believe a Gaggia portafilter will fit the Piccino although I could be wrong. I believe the lugs are at different locations on the portafilter.



CoffeeMate said:


> I remember reading where someone had used 18g and got great results.
> 
> I think the key element that I don't have just right is the grinder setting on my MC2. This although simple in principle has been somewhat a mystery as I have tried in the past so many different grind settings and when I seem to just about get it right things will just change again. I do find it a struggle.
> 
> ...


What does the shot taste like at 16g in 30 seconds and what is the weight of the resulting espresso?

Here is a good summary of adjusting dose and grind:

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/espresso-101-how-to-adjust-dose-and-grind-setting-by-taste-t16968.html#wrap

You may also find that small changes to the grind and dose are needed on a day to day basis with the same beans in response to changes in the environment (humidity) and the aging of the beans.


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## BongoSteve (Apr 10, 2012)

petebetros said:


> Dosing 16g at espresso grind won't reach the embossed rim of the filter basket no? You boys not worrying about that then?
> 
> 16g shot coming up after me dinner....


I've not been bothering about the rim thing, to me it just turned out to be another complication that I didn't want to think about when there were already so many variables. Hope the 16g shot worked!


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Right, so worries about the embossed rim have gone out the window and dosing down to 16g and WDT'ing has led to a noticeable improvement in both leakage and taste. Still getting some trickles from the group but reckon the grind's still just a wee bit fine.

All good fun.....


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Excellent.

Most importantly, how does the espresso taste? I would not be afraid of using a finer grind if the espresso tastes sour or under developed.

It sounds like the rim of the filter basket is still not creating a good seal with the group gasket. This is most likely caused by some debris on the gasket. I would suggest giving the gasket a really good clean with a group brush.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Very nice most of the time









So - leakage issues sorted thanks to the comments made here, happy with the grind and tamp at the moment, getting the 'correct' amounts out within the window and am very happy with the taste and look. I'm adjusting my milk steaming technique from my previous Classic to get something resembling microfoam most of the time.

Next up - brewing and steaming at the same time! Did my first simultaneously last night and surprisingly got the best result yet from steaming milk.

All in all very happy I've made the upgrade as the dual boilers make things soooo much easier than faffing around temp surfing on the Classic. Given that I'm usually making two coffee's, one always with milk which then gets my little one hassling me for her 'frothy coffee' which is just milk and marshmallows. I've got her trained well, just turned 5 and she asked me last week 'daddy, can I have an apple on mine too' - it took us a few seconds to realise she was talking about latte art







Been meaning to try and do her her one on some hot chocolate....

Annoyingly Fracino haven't got back to me yet about my faulty LED and the drip tray cover is a right pain the arse as it doesn't fit tight so when you've finished your cleanup and are wiping the tray if you're not careful it moves and your cloth and hand end up in the drip tray water!


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