# tamping advice needed



## musicville (Jul 31, 2011)

Hi all,

i have a super jolly with the doser attached. I find that when i am using the double basket on my rancilio (and the triple using the naked portafilter) when i add the grinds they dont quite fill the basket before tamping (using 15g).

What is the general concencus or advice on how to distribute the coffee prior to tamping? i have tried knocking the portafilter to distribute the grinds better, but tend to find that i end up with clumps on the top or gaps on the side which means that the extracition is often uneven.

I know im new to this so there are loads of things to learn, but this seems like an obvious area to me that is not consistent.

So come on then what does everyone else do and what am i doing wrong?

Regards

Mike


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Hi mike. Do you get a pointed neat pointed mound of coffee in the PF?

What tamper are you using? Flat, convex, trapez ?

Is the dose in your basket definitely 15g?


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## musicville (Jul 31, 2011)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Hi mike. Do you get a pointed neat pointed mound of coffee in the PF?


Generally speaking yes. However as i pull the lever on the super jolly it just dumps it in (i now see the benefit in not having that). The issue I can see is that if the basket was overflowing i would use something to just level the coffee off, ie a ruler or somthing similar. However as it does not im struggling to achieve this.



urbanbumpkin said:


> Hi mike. Do you get a pointed neat pointed mound of coffee in the PF?
> 
> What tamper are you using? Flat, convex, trapez ?


Motta 58mm flat



urbanbumpkin said:


> Is the dose in your basket definitely 15g?


Yes it is, could be that i am grinding too fine? The shot times vary as my technique isnt consistant yet, however i am usually getting 26g over 26-30 seconds.

Thanks for the help


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't think you necessarily have a problem. 15g is a perfectly reasonable amount to dose, and 15>26 @26" is fine too I'd say. How does it taste?

A double basket will be able to handle 18-19g comfortably, and at that dose, the mound will be high enough to level off if you so wish. I usually dose 18 ±0.5 and aim for about 36-40 out. Some beans seem to be fluffier than others. Something I had recently was quite high at 18g and I literally just swept off the excess with a lolly stick and tamped. After tamping the top of the tamper flat sides were level with the top of the basket. Other coffees don't bulk out so much and the basket looks a fair way off "full", but it seems to tamp down roughly the same.

What I will say is that I don't believe it's necessary to level off the mound before you tamp. I'm no expert I freely admit, and I haven't done any 15g doses, but what I have found is, the more I poke and prod and level off, the more problems I seem to create! OK, not problems as such, but I have found that when I just grind into the basket, give it a little tap to make the mound less pointy, and tamp straight down with a quick polish, I usually get better results than when I pay too much attention to distribution. Not saying people shouldn't, but just that for me, less is more.

Have you got a naked PF? If so, are you seeing spritzers etc?

If you're getting nice results and the shot time is about right, I wouldn't worry.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15276

Do the grinds in the pf look like a bit like this?(see 3rd picture down in the link)

Do you have a small tapered modded funnel in the bottom of your doser that stops the grinds swinging to the left.(can't remember the name of it).?

I use a torr Trapez and tamp straight on the mound after a slight nutation. The trapez pushes the grinds to the side.

The general rule is not to nutate with a flat, but I've seem folk do a slight gentle single nutation to help level the grind in the Pf with a flat.

Any suggestion from flat users?


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## musicville (Jul 31, 2011)

hotmetal said:


> I don't think you necessarily have a problem. 15g is a perfectly reasonable amount to dose, and 15>26 @26" is fine too I'd say. How does it taste?
> 
> A double basket will be able to handle 18-19g comfortably, and at that dose, the mound will be high enough to level off if you so wish. I usually dose 18 ±0.5 and aim for about 36-40 out. Some beans seem to be fluffier than others. Something I had recently was quite high at 18g and I literally just swept off the excess with a lolly stick and tamped. After tamping the top of the tamper flat sides were level with the top of the basket. Other coffees don't bulk out so much and the basket looks a fair way off "full", but it seems to tamp down roughly the same.
> 
> ...


Thanks for replying, I guess there isnt anything wrong with the taste when i get it right, but i am finding the results are inconsistent. I do have a naked PF which has a triple basket and have had a few spritzers and shots that are running too fast/ not quick enough. I think its the OCD comig out i just want some consistancy i think and want a method that will achieve this as much as possible, i am a man not a machine, I keep telling the mrs this!


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## musicville (Jul 31, 2011)

urbanbumpkin said:


> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15276
> 
> Do the grinds in the pf look like a bit like this?(see 3rd picture down in the link)
> 
> ...


What a good mod!

I havnt modded anything with the SJ it is as stock. The grinds to look a bit like that but not as high and when leveled off they dont fully fill the basket - i will take some pics tommorow to show you what i mean.

Cheers chaps


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15276
> 
> Do you have a small tapered modded funnel in the bottom of your doser that stops the grinds swinging to the left.(can't remember the name of it).?
> 
> ...


I think the doser nozzle mods are variously known as the Elvinator and the Schnozzola. 2 different guys on US forums (IIRC) who both came up with similar ideas to the natural tendency of thwacked grounds coming out a bit left-handed.

I tried nutating with my flat tamper and the results were not good so I went back to a "straight onto a fluffy mound and a quick polish" (oo-er!) I tried the whole bathroom scales thing and the 30lb blah blah but now I kind of have a feeling for how hard to tamp without really knowing how hard it really is. I guess maybe 15lb? Main thing is to develop muscle memory which is a natural result of practice. That's where the consistency bit comes in. To paraphrase a guy from the motorbike forum I'm on: "Worry less, drink more"


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes the Schnozzola helps contain the grinds a bit. I'm sure there's a template you can print out from on another forum that you can cut a bit a plastic or paper to.


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## Rdl81 (Sep 8, 2014)

You can also stick a bit of plastic pipe up there that's what I have done not perfect but def improvement


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi Mike

Whilst waiting to complete the mods above you could also try the WDT distribution method example below, the yoghurt pot relly only to stop the grounds going over the edge and can apply the principles without if careful.






It does help to ditribute the grounds and spread out across the basket / break up any clumps and used to use this / combination of others when had the Rocky in daily use ( zenith distributes nicely so don't do this anymore)

An unbent paperclip or wooden cocktail stick also help.

Using your choice of basket try popping it in the naked portafilter, just don't get your face too close in case of spritszers.

Hope of some help

John


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

WDT is great for doser less grinders, but ones with dosers shouldn't need this.

I think it would however rule out any other potential issues for the short term.

It took me a while to get used to the SJ after previously using a Mignon.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

You could give nutating a whirl - it solved a lot of my problems when I had a SJ


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Home users fixate about things like tamping way too much! Just find a technique that works for you, then keep it consistent. Don't believe all the folklore about tamp pressure - like much of coffee folklore it has no empirical basis.

JP


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Sound advice.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jjprestidge said:


> Home users fixate about things like tamping way too much! Just find a technique that works for you, then keep it consistent. Don't believe all the folklore about tamp pressure - like much of coffee folklore it has no empirical basis.
> 
> JP


Agreed, the tamp pressure seems to impact the least out of everything else you do. As JP said getting something that works for you seems to be the main thing.

I try and limit the faff but usually end up removing one technique then replacing it with another.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Consistency = replicability.


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