# Mazzer Royal vs Niche Zero



## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

I've been using a Mazzer Royal the past couple of years with great results. The thing is, I need more countertop space and am considering moving the espresso setup to a small IKEA cart/island. The Bezzera and the Mazzer would barely fit with 2-3cm between the two so I'm starting to consider swapping the latter with a Niche Zero. Should I expect a significant drop in the quality in the cup? I live on the LSOL mostly.. I can't seem to source one locally to do a head-to-head test unfortunately so I need to rely on reviews and anecdotal evidence from you guys.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

bronc said:


> I've been using a Mazzer Royal the past couple of years with great results. The thing is, I need more countertop space and am considering moving the espresso setup to a small IKEA cart/island. The Bezzera and the Mazzer would barely fit with 2-3cm between the two so I'm starting to consider swapping the latter with a Niche Zero. Should I expect a significant drop in the quality in the cup? I live on the LSOL mostly.. I can't seem to source one locally to do a head-to-head test unfortunately so I need to rely on reviews and anecdotal evidence from you guys.


Where do you live?

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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

M_H_S said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


Bulgaria

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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I used to have 2 NZ, Royal and Ceado E37S, so speaking from experience, going from NZ to Royal is definitely downgrade. Yet if you don't have space and want to spare 1k euro, Hedone Honne is a good option.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

So you'd be going from 83mm flats to 63mm conical for mainly LSOL? Consider sticking with large flats but in a smaller package - I mean, the Royal is just bloody huge!!!


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

L&R said:


> going from NZ to Royal is definitely downgrade.


 Would you please tell me why is it a downgrade?


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## Mr Binks (Mar 21, 2019)

webdoc said:


> Would you please tell me why is it a downgrade?


 The short answer is it's not and anyone that tells you that going from a commercial grade grinder like the Mazzer Royal to a home appliance like a Niche Zero is possibly a bit of a Niche fan boy. There is no denying that the Niche is capable and it may fit OPs needs perfectly but it is not in the same league as a commercial grinder, if it was then you would see nothing but Niche grinders in coffee shops.


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## Uriel4953 (Dec 1, 2019)

Mr Binks said:


> The short answer is it's not and anyone that tells you that going from a commercial grade grinder like the Mazzer Royal to a home appliance like a Niche Zero is possibly a bit of a Niche fan boy. There is no denying that the Niche is capable and it may fit OPs needs perfectly but it is not in the same league as a commercial grinder, if it was then you would see nothing but Niche grinders in coffee shops.


 The niche is completely unsuited to use in coffee shops, so no you wouldn't see them in loads of coffee shops. That doesn't make it worse than every commercial grinder available. It doesn't make it better than them either.


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## Mr Binks (Mar 21, 2019)

Uriel4953 said:


> The niche is completely unsuited to use in coffee shops, so no you wouldn't see them in loads of coffee shops. That doesn't make it worse than every commercial grinder available. It doesn't make it better than them either.


 Mmhmm, and claiming that a Niche Zero is an upgrade from a Mazzer Royal?


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## Uriel4953 (Dec 1, 2019)

Mr Binks said:


> Mmhmm, and claiming that a Niche Zero is an upgrade from a Mazzer Royal?


 I don't own both so couldn't claim to know. But it's like saying an audi is worst than a mercedes van, because you will never see people people delivering packages in an audi. Different requirements and priorities.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Why not let the man speak first


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

NZ v Royal depends on how you ensure it. The Mazzer is an out and out commercial grinder. Unless it has been modded will retain a lot, plus it has flat burrs and is not really best suited to single dosing. Te Niche is designed to single dose but is certainly not a commercial grinder, plus the burrs are conical so the flavour profile will be totally different. General rule of thumb is flats more suited to lighter roasts but it really is a personal thing. I love my Niche but I rarely use it for espresso over the Mythos unless I am experimenting. Some beans do taste better through the Niche but I like to click the pf against the button too much


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mr Binks said:


> Mmhmm, and claiming that a Niche Zero is an upgrade from a Mazzer Royal?


 Is less questionable than your logic. A NZ used in a coffee shop would be inefficient and unsuitable as it doesn't have commercial parts aside from the burrs.

NZ vs Royal is basically large flat vs large conic. The difference is one is designed for single dosing and one not. Well aside from the obvious fact that one is designed for commercial use and one not but that's not really relevant in this case.

If I were single dosing my Ceado E8 (83mm flat) I'd come to the simple conclusion that the NZ was an upgrade based on taste and grind quality. When using a short hopper and weight things change but then I have pretty high retention (well by NZ standards) requiring about a 3-5g purge to get rid of all grinds in the chamber and partially broken beans around the burrs. The taste is different with a large flat but I wouldn't say 'better'. I wouldn't say the NZ was an upgrade or downgrade on the E8 regarding taste but it is easier to use for sure, E8 having a doser and lacking a timer...


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Not a single soul talked about using it in a shop, some of you talk nosense.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> The difference is one is designed for single dosing and one not.


 Don't jump de gun yet


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Actually some commercial end people are using Niche where it is suitable. Demo type work. Some facts.

Is a Niche designed to grind 100kg or more beans with little chance of problems - no and it never was. The Royal is and smaller commercial grinders that are solidly made also are.

Is it easier to dial in with Niche and also go back and forth between different bean settings - yes it is. Where I am using it with a setting under 10 it needs some rather small adjustments but at least they are pretty easy to make. Unusual for just about any stepless grinder. This is definitely not one of Mazzer's strong points and worm wheel adjusted types aren't much better.

Is weighing in a complete bowl of roses on any grinder - no. Most people accept that it screws up taste to some extent. Is Niche a bowl of roses in this respect I'd say no but does have advantage in that area and considering other aspects it's a better option.

Another fact - brand new grinders. It's not really possible to get any idea of performance or taste until several Kg have been run through them. I find kg's at espresso levels are needed as well really. I personally feel Niche needs more of this than new flats I have used.. This mostly relates to rather early after I found that I needed to drop my dose of beans by 1/2g on Niche. Big increase in taste but I thought that fines had lot to do with that. This period stopped pretty quickly. Then there's static. None initially, then some then later none worth bothering about.

There is one "bad" aspect to them really. Currently no real idea what parts will fail first or how long they will last in practice. There is also the taste question but what is tuning for? Any time I change anything even a machine I have to go through that again. I have run a couple of slightly fruity beans through and haven't had much of a problem getting what I expected.  I'm on the lookout for more of a tongue curler. I have used one dark roast bean for years. No problem getting the same taste range out of it and it does seem to produce more taste for slightly less coffee. It's a bean that some consider bitter especially as I drink it. It can also be sweet or earthy/smokey type of thing  or some combination of the 3, not so easy to do. Most of the beans I buy to try / for a change are medium roast.

I use fixed timed shots and did get more variation with it. That mostly related to the need to find a way to deal with the grinds. I'm not a fan of grinding into a cup for this very reason but have managed.

John

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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Hmm... The Royal is bloody huge and a bit overkill for home use. Especially if you don't have the counterspace or SWMBO is making suggestive noises that something smaller would be better etc.

If you only grind LSOL then a Niche might not be the answer. They much prefer medium to darker roasts being a conical. You lose the flavour definition of a larger flat and tend to muddy the output. Maybe muddy is the wrong word.. Rounded maybe.

I put my Niche against the EK and Versalab. Granted it's not a fair comparison so I didn't really post my views. All were used with an LOSL at the time and the Niche produced some nice shots but there wasn't the clarity that a large flat burr grinder would give. The EK gave a thinner, lighter shot, the M3 gave a well balanced shot with good clarity of flavours and the Niche gave a more rounded shot. Could say they were bass, middle and treble (Niche, M3, EK)

I wouldn't say the Niche is a downgrade either. it's a great grinder in it's own right and if you hadn't used anything else I think you'd be very happy with one. But coming from a Royal and after reading people's thoughts, I think you'd be looking for faults.

As for single dosing with a large Mazzer, I have a Major that I modified and have had no problems single dosing it. It offered very little exchange.

Probably the best thing is to ask someone who has used both for their opinions. @coffeechap has had a Royal (maybe still has it I don't know) and may have had/has a Niche. he may even be able to offer an idea for a suitable replacement for the Royal as well.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I had them both, decided to keep Royal and another grinder with DRM burrs like Versalab, Niche is cool, but according to my taste preference I will stick with flat burrs.


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Thanks guys. I'll give it some thought and see what other alternatives are out there that would fit the requirements. Or maybe I'll get a NZ and sell it if I don't like the results as they tend to keep their value well.

P.S. Pretty sure L&R meant that going from the Royal to the NZ is a downgrade and not the other way around









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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Made a mistake in the first post, sorry.

I meant Royal has better output.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

On @Rhys muddy comment I meant the same when I mentioned fines - too many of them. That passed mostly due to use I think but I was also changing what I did to the grinds. Latest on what to do with the grinds in my case is a he man tamp. That seems to lead to better clarity and no drop off in strength in terms of taste. I'd discounted stirring the grinds so now want to add some of that. I found too much of that lead to obvious unequal extraction in the puck. That might just be down to the beans I use clumping when that's done. What comes out of Niche is relatively clump free, nothing worth worrying about and very very little of it anyway.

 I don't post much about this sort of aspect and the changes that can be expected as it might put some off. Another aspect of it is convenience. I don't need to grind, use a brush, spin up again and use the brush again and no need to add stuff to make it possible to weigh beans in. Also I like the taste of what comes out. Haven't tried larger burrs but will get round to that.

Just ordered some Myanmar Greenland Estate. light medium roast.  I'll try anything at least once

John

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## The Asgard (Aug 1, 2017)

Just to address the single use.

With a couple simple mods it as minimal retention if any. Lens hood and a modified egg timer is all you need. Great grinder and built like a tank.


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## blazarov (Jul 17, 2018)

I have a Niche for almost an year now and got myself a bargain 150GBP Royal from the forum recently.

3 days of usage of the Royal and i don't like my Niche at all anymore!

The plan was to use the Royal as on-demand in my office (due to huge size), but now with the quarantine i am work from home and use it here.

I have no specific SD tools, however with just a brush and a tamper i have close to zero retention and the whole grinding process takes comparable time and effort to the Niche.

I haven't event changed the burrs of the Royal yet, however shots are much much sweeter and cleaner!

Also i have no problem with slow 40-50s shots (my favorite ones!) without the bitter and muddy taste that comes with the Niche when doing that.

Someone wants to buy a Niche?



































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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Put it in the for sale then.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

@blazarov sounds like you got the chance to move on your Niche to @bronc without ever it needing to leave Bulgaria 

John


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## blazarov (Jul 17, 2018)

I just told him that changing the Royal for a Niche would be a big mistake, so i dont think so







Bad marketing on my side









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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

blazarov said:


> I have a Niche for almost an year now and got myself a bargain 150GBP Royal from the forum recently.
> 
> 3 days of usage of the Royal and i don't like my Niche at all anymore!
> 
> ...


Not a surprise IMHO, most of the praise for Niche comes from people who either drink darker roasts or haven't had big flats.









If you have space and can afford a big flat burr grinder, it's a no brainer.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

PPapa said:


> Not a surprise IMHO, most of the praise for Niche comes from people who either drink darker roasts or haven't had big flats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thats odd......I have a Clima Pro that I have not switched on for a month now in favour of my Niche. I agree to a certain extent on the lighter v medium plus roasts but there are plenty of people who use a Niche with lighter roasts and are quite happy, so I do not think you can generalise in that way. Taste is one thing then, but what else does the MAzzer have over the Niche. Looks, size, retention.....


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Thats odd......I have a Clima Pro that I have not switched on for a month now in favour of my Niche. I agree to a certain extent on the lighter v medium plus roasts but there are plenty of people who use a Niche with lighter roasts and are quite happy, so I do not think you can generalise in that way. Taste is one thing then, but what else does the MAzzer have over the Niche. Looks, size, retention.....


I don't recall you drinking light roasts? I don't mean Nordic style, something at least lighter than, let's say, Square Mile?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

The biggest problem with Niche is plenty of fines in ground coffee. Mazzer with Daniel Wong kit has close to zero retention, Niche is cool but tastewise is far behind from big flats or DRM burrs.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

PPapa said:


> Not a surprise IMHO, most of the praise for Niche comes from people who either drink darker roasts or haven't had big flats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I went from a big flat ex commercial to the Niche and I don't notice a huge difference. The Niche is easier to dial in and probably more consistent. I should probably pull the Cimbali out of the garage and do another side by side especially as I've just fitted the NFC disk today.

If budget is tight and you have the space than I agree a big flat ex commercial is a no brainer.


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## blazarov (Jul 17, 2018)

My aim is not to start a forum flame war, but either i have surprisingly good tastebuds (i doubt it) or the difference in my case is very significant.

I haven't tried any blind side by side comparisons, but i feel like i can successfully distinguish between the two 100 out of the 100 times - and not only that, but i would prefer the shot from the Royal in all 100 cases.
Maybe its just a subjective feeing I convinced myself after reading too much coffee forums








Also i really prefer the taste and body of the shots in the 40-50 and sometimes over second range. I feel this is the place where the difference is the biggest between the Royal and the Niche. The more "standard" around the 2:1 ~30sec mark shot it is, the lesser the difference.
Nevertheless, my experience is not sufficient for any flat vs conical generalizations, so i am only comparing my particular Niche and Royal.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Have you fitted NFC disk on yours?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

This is just about personal preference for the style of bean you prefer, linked to a grinder. it is not scientific, just an opinion and the nice thing about opinions is that in our own way, we can all be right


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## blazarov (Jul 17, 2018)

Inspector said:


> Have you fitted NFC disk on yours?


Yes. Even though it definitely required change in grind setting i never found any discernible taste difference.

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

blazarov said:


> Yes. Even though it definitely required change in grind setting i never found any discernible taste difference.


 That surprises me greatly!


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

Anyone else got experiences of niche and a royal. Thinking of saving some space from my fudge funnel modded Royal with new Ti burrs. Is that a downgrade for a ~£200 difference in price?

Lelit Mara X, Mazzer Royal, Osmio Zero, Torr with Joey handle


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

What type of beans do you use in term of roasting?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Badgerman said:


> Anyone else got experiences of niche and a royal. Thinking of saving some space from my fudge funnel modded Royal with new Ti burrs. Is that a downgrade for a ~£200 difference in price?
> 
> Lelit Mara X, Mazzer Royal, Osmio Zero, Torr with Joey handle


 The best thing you can do is try it. Then if you don't like it, move it on, you won't lose much. It's the only way to know. You can try it with or without the disk..I think it's better with the disk. You might well find that the quality to you is same, better, or worse but the thing that swings it might be size and workflow. You really have to try it to know.


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> What type of beans do you use in term of roasting?


Rave signature blend mainly. So darker roasts.

Lelit Mara X, Mazzer Royal, Osmio Zero, Torr with Joey handle


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

For dark roasts Niche is perfect.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Suppose it all depends on if you have the room for a Royal.. If you only use one bean then shove a hopper on if it's an on demand and enjoy it. I've still got my Major, but haven't used it in a long while..


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