# Dalian Power Mod



## Dartmoor Coffee

Afternoon All,

I was wondering how many who has the Dalian roaster has done the power modification setup? I'm just getting a high wattage (2700+Watts), so wanting to reduce the watts to help slow the roast of the beans since FC is happening at 8/9 mins. I also understand from reading about roasting that power should be gradually eased to the roaster over the course of the roast especially after FC ends. I have already reduced the presets to 191 (BT) and 232 (AT) trying to reduce the max temps the beans get to.

For people who has done the mod have you had any issues with the roaster - has it worked ok?

Spoken to support at BB and they obviously would not give any advice and state it would void all warranty's, etc.

Grateful for any advice.

Thanks

Phil.


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## Rob1

The warranty is only for 180 days isn't it?

I thought an idea to control the temp through and after first crack would be to have the element switch off entirely at a set point (depending on how quickly you want the beans to get through first and the final temp you want) so the momentum and residual heat provides a naturally declining ROR? I could see why reducing the power to the heating element prior to this point over time would be ideal to get a more even roast going into first. Continuing to apply heat after FC in a 1kg drum roaster seems odd unless you're going for a dark roast, but I'm just guessing at that.


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## Batian

I find the on/off switch works quite well.

I also have my PIDs set a lot lower than most----after advice from an old hand! I go for [email protected], AT @ 220. I can expect 1C any time after 175C

I also find that after the first 2 kilos, BT and AT are pretty much level pegging.

I also do something that may be peculiar to my set up and environment. I aim to get 1C in the 10 to 11 minute bracket. If the ROR is spanking along and 160C is reached before 6 minutes, I turn the heat off for, (depending on ambient and ROR) say 5 to 20 seconds and consider the SD setting. I now rarely have to go wider than 4cm on SD. 10 to 11 minute 1C doesn't always work out, but that is the target!

The PID often turns off the heat during 1C. I then consider how much 1st is left plus AT plus SD setting and whether it needs closing a tad.

So when you asked for info from folk who have done the mod, when I plainly haven't why have I replied?

Mainly to suggest before doing the mod, you do more roasts with the machine 'as is' to get a real 'seat of the pants' feel to it. Those controls can be very sensitive especially with our temperate climate.

Good luck with your venture!


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## Beeroclock

Just can't understand why a £3000 machine does not have the ability to control heat.


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## BlackCatCoffee

This isn't a direct answer to your question but I found it relatively easy to modulate the ror using the air dampers on the machine.

Why do you feel FC at 8/9 minutes is a bad thing just out of curiosity? What do you feel is wrong with the coffee you are producing?


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Hi All,

Many thanks for your inputs - much appreciated.

@Rob1 - yes 180 days. Just checked my 180 days is up next Saturday although they've gave me a couple of extra weeks due to covid-19 and not being able to use it. 180 days has gone quickly. Turning off heat is possible, but you need to turn off at the correct moment to prevent a crash or rise, but I also read you should reduce heat before FC as well.

@Batian - yes I will try turning down my presets even further. Will take it to 185 / 220 for testing. Fair comment about doing more testing. With only a few days left on warranty it can wait. I have bought the voltage regulator but not expensive and it can wait.

@Beeroclock - £3500. Yes expensive piece of equipment or perhaps provide as an option. You pay extra for the mod pre-done.

@BlackCatCoffee - I'm trying cupping after my roasts and the taste is not brilliant. Bit bland / earthy. Not bad, but when compared to other coffee (bought some Rave), you can taste the difference. It may be my coffee since I purchased older coffee for testing. Regarding FC times I totally agree and it has been my thoughts. Reading books and looking online a lot of them have FC times of 8/9 minutes so thought OK. Just other people using Dalian have FC of 10 mins + so makes me think am I baking mine too fast?

I am planning, but RobotShop is out of stock, in getting connected to Artisan so I can see what exactly is happening during the roasts. Once done I can share the results. I'm also reading Scott Rao's latest book "coffee roasting - best practices", which must say is a very interesting read, and he mentions about the need to continually reduce the temperature throughout the roast (even before FC) even for electric roasters. So seeing how best to get the best possible roast.

Many thanks all again.

Phil.


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## BlackCatCoffee

8 or 9 minutes is not too long as such. Plenty of people out there are completing roasts in that time. It is all about if you are happy with the coffee in the cup. If you feel it is not developed enough for example then yes perhaps you need think about your profile. I am making the assumption this is a business venture here btw?

As for old coffee - if you put poor coffee in then you will get poor coffee out. It does not matter who is roasting or on what.

Why not order something decent and see how you get on. Or if you feel you want to use Rave as a benchmark then go and get the same coffee from them in both roasted and green and so how your efforts compare.

Good luck with it.

David


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## Dartmoor Coffee

BlackCatCoffee said:


> 8 or 9 minutes is not too long as such. Plenty of people out there are completing roasts in that time. It is all about if you are happy with the coffee in the cup. If you feel it is not developed enough for example then yes perhaps you need think about your profile. I am making the assumption this is a business venture here btw?
> 
> As for old coffee - if you put poor coffee in then you will get poor coffee out. It does not matter who is roasting or on what.
> 
> Why not order something decent and see how you get on. Or if you feel you want to use Rave as a benchmark then go and get the same coffee from them in both roasted and green and so how your efforts compare.
> 
> Good luck with it.
> 
> David


 Hi David,

Thanks looking at potential business in long run. Currently part-time since working full-time, but am looking at it to see if I can make a go of it.

Yes I understand about old coffee and know I won't get the flavours or be blown away by it, but still think I should be able to test a nice coffee roast? From my experience by giving to family and friends that I've done so far that the average joe coffee sensors are not used to tasting the flavours in coffee so they've not minded it. I do have some 2017 coffee as well, and BB gave 5KG of 2019 Brazilian coffee with the roaster. Guess I wanting to get my profiling software working so I don't waste the good stuff so practicing on the older stuff.

Will order some newer beans when I can see the profile.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Phil.


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## Rob1

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Yes I understand about old coffee and know I won't get the flavours or be blown away by it, but still think I should be able to test a nice coffee roast?


 How are you judging the roast if taste isn't part of it? Just wholebean colour vs ground? The profile?

You're better off buying 30kg-60kg of good coffee to roast. Get a sample for cupping and then see what you can do to with it.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Rob1 said:


> How are you judging the roast if taste isn't part of it? Just wholebean colour vs ground? The profile?
> 
> You're better off buying 30kg-60kg of good coffee to roast. Get a sample for cupping and then see what you can do to with it.


 Hi, Thank you for your response. Since this is a new venture and understood (maybe wrongly) I'd be throwing away 40/50 kg of testing I thought I was being safe with money and not purchase 60kg of new coffee so went for end of stock slightly older coffee for testing. By sound of things that might have been a bad choice. I'm testing on colour, shape of bean (scorching), and also taste. Yes I know the taste will be affected by the age, but was hoping since not really selling yet it was a happy medium between the 2.

Yes might need to get some more coffee. Was hoping to get a big batch through somebody like Falcon when ready, but think they have a min order of bags.

Cupping I'm finding an interesting challenge. I have signed up to do Square Mile Coffee virtual cupping session, which hopefully I will find that useful.

If think I really need to get Artisan working and use the old coffee for testing and achieving the declining ROR correctly. Once done I think I'd be in a better place to purchase new coffee beans.

Does that sound like a plan or more a Baldrick plan 😆.

Thanks

Phil.


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## CJV8

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Was hoping to get a big batch through somebody like Falcon when ready, but think they have a min order of bags.


 Minimum order from Falcon is one bag, but the postage rate is flat for 1 to 6 bags so if you can, it makes sense to order more. If there's a roaster not too far away that sources from Falcon maybe see if you could hijack one of their orders to cut down on postage until you're ready to order more.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

CJV8 said:


> Minimum order from Falcon is one bag, but the postage rate is flat for 1 to 6 bags so if you can, it makes sense to order more. If there's a roaster not too far away that sources from Falcon maybe see if you could hijack one of their orders to cut down on postage until you're ready to order more.


 Hi @CJV8,

Just looking and it was DRWakefield that there is a minimum order of 5 bags.

Phil.


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## johnealey

Small batch roasting may be your best bet whilst getting up and running, if you not already using them  old beans that may be past their best may not teach you anything more than how to roast old beans, if that makes sense

You can also enter figures in for bean and air temp manually into artisan: config>device>et/bt>meter, pick none then tick boxes for et and bt curves (LCD's also if you like).

All dalians will behave slightly differently due to changes in voltage etc so take these as what I use, that may not work for you: PID settings, BT 180c, AT 220c with 1C, like @Batian ,occurring between 175 and 179c. I drop at 180 on both PIDS once heated up on a non power controlled machine pulling approx 2500 watts with cooling damper at 3,sd closed for first 3 mins then opened to 3 till just before 1C, dependant on temp rise, then 5>7 etc. on drop open up the cooling damper and reduce sd to 1. My voltage is high here, hovering around the 250v mark

If you not comfortable with cupping, leave for 7 days in whatever method you bag in to exclude air and try as you would normally, using this as your guide. Previous post above of buying some roasted and green beans is a good idea as can tell you how close or not you are, coffeecompass do 2kg green of their 500g roasted.

Hope of help and best of luck

John


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Hi @johnealey, Thank you for your suggestion. Had a message from another member whose suggested about joining his bag sharing so looking at that avenue especially till I need to purchase full bags myself.

Regarding Artisan I do manually enter figures at the moment, after the roast, although the ROR line doesn't appear correctly as per our screenshots. It is something I need to investigate. Got a roast to add to Artisan so will look later. When I do another roast I was going to look at @Batian suggestion and reduce the presets to 185c / 220c to see how that helps. Maybe reduce CD to 3 as well (currently it is at 5).

Thanks

Phil.


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## johnealey

Hi @Dartmoor Coffee

you could have artisan going live and enter temps (event button) every 30 seconds which will graph in real time for you, is what I do as well as keep a paper copy going. Is a bit hairy the first time you do it this way bit soon get into a rhythm, works for me nearing 400 roasts since started doing this.

RoR curve used to appear live in previous versions not sure it still does in current versions (am still using 1.5.0 which is fine for me) if you right clicked on the graph (when entering data live) and picked event, it seemed to update the RoR and "show" itself.

Remember that the cooling / smoke dampers are co-dependant in that when you close down the cooling more air is available to the Smoke damper and vice versa.

If you weren't aware, you can also have a "background" roast in Artisan to follow: Roast> Background>Config tab> Load and then navigate to where a previous roast was then use that to fine tune your live roast.

Hope of help

John


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## johnealey

? Just out of curiosity, what batch sizes are you roasting?

John


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Hi @johnealey,,

Currently roasting 1kg batches. You must have 4 arms to have Artisan going live with entering every 30 secs, entering manually on paper, and then checking tryer, etc. as well 😀. I will check ROR settings later tonight.

Thanks about the background image - was wondering about that, but hadn't looked since wasn't in the place needing it yet.

Phil.


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## Johnny Ess

Hello all,

Can anyone please advise on the power mod? Hoping @DavecUKwill chime in!

If I follow this cable that goes into the back of the drum into the heating element (right hand side because its away from the belt).

https://ibb.co/CzK2MTP

It will appear as the cable on the left (not the right) behind the control panel. Which is not as the finger is pointing at in the guide.

https://ibb.co/yQ0SQsX

So I need to know which cable of the two I should be hacking into. One of these cables goes into the main roaster power switch (circular red and yellow switch on the front panel)

and the other goes into some kind of transformer/coiled cable component behind the control panel (Pictured just to left of Daves index finger).

Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers


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## Rob1

Is the little box a relay to turn the element on/off when it reaches temperature?

I don't think I've read the guide but if it's the same as the famous Gene dimmer mod, you want to just wire the dimmer into the circuit placed between the heating element and terminal block so power passes through the controller to get to the heating element and from there things are unchanged. Trace the wire from the heating element to the terminal block, remove from terminal block and connect to your SCR module, wire other end of SCR to the terminal block in place of the wire you just removed with appropriately rated wire to carry mains voltage.

In case I'm wrong, thoroughly read the guide again and pay attention to the little details of what connects where.

A little disclaimer In case you don't know what you're doing: Proceed at your own risk. Make sure the roaster is unplugged. Don't touch any capacitors. Make sure your connections are good and won't work loose.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

From my memory that was the same as mine. Unscrew in the junction block and pulled the cable through. I personally didn't snip the original cable so that i could remove and set as per original if ever required.

Phil.


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## Johnny Ess

Thanks @Rob1 and @Dartmoor Coffee 👍

The problem I have though, is that if I follow the instructions in the guide and follow the cable into the junction block, my cable is the one the left (not the cable on right that the finger is pointing at).

This tells me only one thing. That when my Amazon was built, they used a different slot in the terminal block. So the guide didn't take this into consideration. I suppose it was fair to assume that all the roasters would have been wired in exactly the same way. I guess my roaster has the exact same circuit.. only uses different slots in the terminal block for these two cables.

So before doing the mod I think its safer to get clarification on which cable it is in the circuit, to make absolutely sure I'm placing the SCR in the correct place. Rather than just a pointer to the terminal block, I'll need confirmation on where the cables are actually coming from to make sure I don't mess it up! 😅


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## DavecUK

Why don't you put your own photos of the wiring behind the panel up instead of mine if it's different?

Apologies if you have already done so and I've missed them...


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## Johnny Ess

Awesome thanks @DavecUK

Recycling one of your pics just to label the heating element cables.

And here is behind the control panel with the two heating element cables labeled showing where they lead to.

I was wondering if the heating element is bipolar so theres a chance it could have been wired in either way..or maybe both those cables are sending power to the element(s)?

Much appreciated

John


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## DavecUK

OK, well you can either disconnect 1 or 2. On mine I disconnected 2 from behind the front panel and pulled it through.

I added a new cable to where 2 was connected on the front panel and pulled one end through.

inside the roaster I now have 2 cables connected to nothing, (2) to the roaster heating element and (2) to the front panel connector. I place the correct type of power controller in line...e.g. connect a cable end to each connector of the power controller.

Obviously power should be off and roaster unplugged, be super careful, if you are not absolutely sure what you are doing, go find someone who is.


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## Johnny Ess

Thanks for clarifying Dave 👍

Much appreciated!


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## Dartmoor Coffee

I was wondering for the people who have implemented the Dalian dimmer who:

1) Uses the dimmer to set the watts at a set rate for each roast and then makes no other changes except through dampers.

2) Continually reduces the watts during the roast as you would for a gas roaster?

Thanks

Phil.


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## Johnny Ess

Just using airflow at a minimum for steam, smoke and chaff removal. SD1 @ 2-3 mins. Then SD2 @ 6mins. need to review if the SD2 is necessary though.

Not sure how using purely airflow for temperature control affects the flavour. I installed the dimmer mod and probes (artisan) at the same time so moved straight on to using the dimmer as its most similar to gas roasting.

Scott Rao Instagram post


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## DavecUK

@Johnny Ess do you have the cooling damper open fully unless absolutely necessary to close it.


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## Johnny Ess

DavecUK said:


> @Johnny Ess do you have the cooling damper open fully unless absolutely necessary to close it.


 Open to 5cm. Was thinking to open CD fully from now on, and continue with the above SD changes...in order to have just the minimum necessary airflow through the drum.


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## DavecUK

Johnny Ess said:


> Open to 5cm. Was thinking to open CD fully from now on, and continue with the above SD changes...in order to have just the minimum necessary airflow through the drum.


 That would be best and the only close CD is SD is fully open and you need even more airflow.

Having the cooling damper half closed means that when you open the smoke damper even a little bit, you get more forceful air through a slit, and more swirl around the roasting chamber which is something you really don't want


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## Johnny Ess

Interesting, thanks. I'll definitely do that from now on. I sometimes get chaff swirling around after dumping the beans. Have to play around a bit before they either get sucked out (SD) or tumble out the front hatch. Wonder if that has something do with it also.


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## DavecUK

the clear chuff, and bring the temperature down at the end of a roast, I'll often close the cooling damper completely, and open the smoke damper fully.

sometimes, for a really traffic coffee during the roast when the chat is coming off, I will actually close the cooling damper and open the smoke damper fully very briefly to just clear out the chaff. It doesn't actually have an impact on been temperature that you think it would. The environmental temperature also recovers in seconds.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Interesting. By just playing with SD and when you run it through Artisan does it stop any significant crash. I find by gradually setting CD to 4 / 5, that it allows during FC to open it up again and help prevents a crash.

@DavecUK - do you use your dimmer mod purely for setting a set wattage or do you alter it during the roast?


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## DavecUK

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> @DavecUK - do you use your dimmer mod purely for setting a set wattage or do you alter it during the roast?


 I don't use artisan. When I use the dimmer mod I can use it both ways sometimes I run a set wattage because I want a particular power level and sometimes depending on the benign might alter the dimmer down towards the end of the roast if I don't want to pull too much air.

when starting out it's probably advisable to run at a set power level and only alter power level during the roast once you get much more experience.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Thanks - When I next do some roasting I shall take a look.


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## CJV8

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> I was wondering for the people who have implemented the Dalian dimmer who:
> 
> 1) Uses the dimmer to set the watts at a set rate for each roast and then makes no other changes except through dampers.
> 
> 2) Continually reduces the watts during the roast as you would for a gas roaster?


 I'm using the dimmer to adjust the wattage during the roast.


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## Johnny Ess

DavecUK said:


> sometimes, for a really traffic coffee during the roast when the chat is coming off, I will actually close the cooling damper and open the smoke damper fully very briefly to just clear out the chaff. It doesn't actually have an impact on been temperature that you think it would. The environmental temperature also recovers in seconds.


 I'll have to try this out.

I have a problem recently at the end of each roast, I'm getting smoking chaff in the tray which burns all the other chaff in the tray. All I know is that it is happening at the end of the roast, because the chaff at the top is black and the chaff underneath is light brown and not burnt at all. Have no idea why it's happening all of a sudden 🤔

One thing i noticed when cleaning the fan is that there is no balancing weight on the fan blades, and it does have a slight oscillation, so not sure if that is normal.


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## DavecUK

Johnny Ess said:


> I'll have to try this out.
> 
> I have a problem recently at the end of each roast, I'm getting smoking chaff in the tray which burns all the other chaff in the tray. All I know is that it is happening at the end of the roast, because the chaff at the top is black and the chaff underneath is light brown and not burnt at all. Have no idea why it's happening all of a sudden 🤔
> 
> One thing i noticed when cleaning the fan is that there is no balancing weight on the fan blades, and it does have a slight oscillation, so not sure if that is normal.


 The weight can be a very slim clip on, you might not easily see it. Check the capacitor looks normal and is not swollen, that can cause rough running or lack of power. it's in the little square box near the fan that the power cable leads into.

It would be handy to know the age of the roaster, how much coffee has been through it and what maintenance you have done.


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## Johnny Ess

used it for 7 months and done about 300+ roasts. 1kg of green each roast.

always used the same airflow settings & never had a problem until now.t

will check the capacitor tomorrow. I've cleaned the fan a few times. Removed twice, brushed and hoovered. Also cleaned vent ducting couple of times.

recently greased rear and front bearings. I put a little too much grease on the front bearing as some was leaking out (dark patch underneath front bearing cover). So removed the front cover and cleaned all the area (including inside the drum where the shaft goes through the front plate). So there was traces of grease around the area (inside and outside) which have now been cleaned. Done 4 roasts since then and doesn't seem to be any change with the burnt chaff at the end of the roast.


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## Johnny Ess

Here is the fan, looks a little out of balance -

https://filebin.net/yinrmyksys3e7b2w


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## DavecUK

Johnny Ess said:


> Here is the fan, looks a little out of balance -
> 
> https://filebin.net/yinrmyksys3e7b2w


 That's not the fan, it's the speed governor....the fan is in the top of the cyclone...3 screws and pull it out...check out my videos on the Dalian. I think it would do you good to watch all of this video. 16m of your life you will never get back, but it's worth it.


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## Johnny Ess

Cheers Dave 👍

I double checked the fan and seems to be pulling air well enough, although can't see any balancing weight of the sorts on the cage section of the fan 🤔


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## DavecUK

It's a small thing, can be very easily missed....

You might just want to pull more air though the roast chamber at the time the chaff is coming off....however there are some very chaffy coffees that can burn. One of the many causes of fires in Roasteries is the chaff box...some of them are large and have slightly oily very flammable chaff boxes. A few embers can go through and set it off.

When you have finished roasting a good habit to get into is ALWAYS empty the chaff box, never shut down and leave it. If you are roasting a very chaffy coffee, just use the chaff removal switch and keep the chaff draw empty. Even if it does smoulder, it's not going to impact the taste of the coffee. The other thing you can do is use a spray bottle of water on the chaff in the draw when roasting a really chaffy coffee....to keep it from igniting. Just make sure the draw is dry at the end of the day.

This is of course on the assumption that the roaster has not done a few 1000 kg and is need of maintenance.


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## Johnny Ess

Thanks Dave, Ive tried drawing more air through the roaster and managed to avoid the burning in the tray. Will experiment with different airflow settings and make sure its enough. Not sure why it happened all of sudden or if it had something to do with the excess grease on the front bearing. Seem to have it under control today anyway. Cheers!


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## Johnny Ess

Can anyone using the power mod share examples of your airflow settings?


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## DavecUK

@Johnny Ess the front bearing lube should be sparingly applied and food safe


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Johnny Ess said:


> Can anyone using the power mod share examples of your airflow settings?


 @Johnny Ess Take a look at this profile I did a few weeks back. Not sure how good it is. I find air flow settings around FC interesting since I tend to open CD during FC to help reduce the air flow out of roaster through thr SD to help keep heat in and prevent the crash. Not sure if this is correct and an area I am still working on.

Hope it helps.

Phil.


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## Johnny Ess

Thanks @Dartmoor Coffee

Hope it tasted as good as the graph looks!


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## Johnny Ess

So you're leaving the burner on for about 30-45 seconds after FC to avoid the ROR crash?


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## DavecUK

Johnny Ess said:


> So you're leaving the burner on for about 30-45 seconds after FC to avoid the ROR crash?


 I usually roast with the Cooling Tray damper open fully, and use the SD to control the roast ROR. This avoids swirls of air in the roast chamber affecting readings....I like to pull minimum air, enough to clear chaff when needed and would rather set the power a little lower for the roast than pull lots of air through the roast chamber.

I get a feeling of Deep joy, especially with dry process and pulped natural, if I can cut off the burners 20s or so before it enters first and goes like a train. Especially if there is a continual rise, albeit flattened out as it should be. If it enters first with the burners on, I feel I've lost 

During first I'll pull the air required to control the maximum temperature I want to reach, by more SD and if that's not enough closing the CA


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## Rob1

Johnny Ess said:


> So you're leaving the burner on for about 30-45 seconds after FC to avoid the ROR crash?


 There won't necessarily be one. You can have enough energy put into the roast before first crack with enough residual heat in the roaster to carry it through. I've tried operating the roaster with CA fully closed to fully open and the more CA is closed the hotter the environment gets (outside the roaster) the hotter everything gets including the ducting and cyclone. For me airflow is far in excess of what I want at this point but pumping CA open and closed can help blow off chaff early in the roast as the beans expand.


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## RDC8

@Rob1 -If I understand you correctly, you are turning off the power prior to first and then coasting all the way to the end? Does this work well for a range of beans (origin/process/varietal)? How far after FC do you (typically) roast? My worry would be stalling the roast at some stage so I would be keen to know more about your relative ET and BT measures at the point where you turn the power off. I am struggling with a Honey Process bean at the moment; it looks good all the way through to FC and then suddenly chars like you wouldn't believe! This might be an avenue to explore next time I roast. Have you done the power mod?


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Thanks everyone. Interesting thoughts, but how do you control the ROR? If CA is fully open and during FC you open SD (if I'm reading correctly) are you not causing a crash since you are allowing too much heat to escape? The thinking of opening CA during FC is that it draws more air through the cooling tray and so stops heat loss in the chamber.

Since at present I am adjusting the power through the dimmer by the time it hits FC I have reduced it to around 1100/1300W. I can try some experimenting keeping power at 2400/2500W all the way through to FC and turn off just be FC, but would need to be careful not to hit the flick just before FC due to too much momentum.

As RDC8 mentions how far past FC do you generally go before dropping?


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## DavecUK

I keep reading about flicks and crashes and ROR..It might be good to put all that stuff away for a bit and really observe the roast with ears, eyes and nose










I strongly recommend people don't confuse themselves with computers and too much complication when learning, because it's easy to miss the basics.



With the power mod, I came up with the idea, not so people could twiddle it around during the roast (I rarely do), but to set the power for different conditions (winter summer) and beans (size and density). I rarely change it during the roast from the power level I wanted, unless I fecked up....or voltage is varying so much I want to keep it constant.


With the power setting, always give yourself a bit of headroom if you can, so if the voltage drops, you can increase the power


If you still have heat on during 1st that's not good...with a full kg in the roaster, you shouldn't need it, you fecked up


If first is going off like it's November the 5th on steroids...you fecked up


If you force first...you fecked up


if the temperature gets too high in 1st....you fecked up


Don't try and force some funny idea of a best ROR, some beans go faster than others and some don't like being forced


Pull only the air you need to pull


Apart from a bump open close of the CA to get rid off chaff sometimes...keep it fully open (why wouldn't you). The only time to close it is if you can't control the temp rise during first with SD fully open. Then you might close it 33%, 66% or completely.


Closing CA, stops the cyclone working well, robs heat from the roasting chamber, heats up the tube chaff collector and clogs the fan. It also means when you open the SD a little, you get jets of air and swirls within the roast chamber that affect the roast and the probe.


If you want to roast really light....if you roast as normal and drop it 30s or so into first....you fecked up. That's not properly roasting light.


Don't have some fixed idea of roasting times....for some beans 15m 30s is fine., for others the whole roast might take 13m. Whatever you do ignore the times in the world roasting competition.


No more free advice...but stop using the computer for a bit....start watching what's going on....really watching and take notes.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

So @DavecUK what you are trying to say is stop fecking 😄. Well good timing as my neighbour has moved her clothes inside so good time for some testing. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks


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## Rob1

RDC8 said:


> @Rob1 -If I understand you correctly, you are turning off the power prior to first and then coasting all the way to the end? Does this work well for a range of beans (origin/process/varietal)? How far after FC do you (typically) roast? My worry would be stalling the roast at some stage so I would be keen to know more about your relative ET and BT measures at the point where you turn the power off. I am struggling with a Honey Process bean at the moment; it looks good all the way through to FC and then suddenly chars like you wouldn't believe! This might be an avenue to explore next time I roast. Have you done the power mod?


 Yeah, the setting on the controller automatically turns the heating element off at a certain temperature set below the point first crack will occur. If charge temperature determines time to first crack, heating element cut off temp determines development time or to put it another way, time to the finish temp. If you turn the element off too early the roast doesn't get to the finish temp, which is another way of saying the ROR crashes. A low charge temp and longer roast would mean less momentum going into first so you have to balance when the element switches off with this momentum. If the charge temp gives you a faster roast than you'd want you can try to slow the roast down by reducing power or by increasing airflow later on, and maybe you'll want to do this to give the beans enough energy early in the roast to progress through first crack without the heating element being on if you find high temperatures late in the roast leads to defects.

I haven't roasted many different coffees in it but I don't see why the settings wouldn't just be adapted to something appropriate. Alter batch size of the same bean and you obviously need different settings and switching beans would be no different.

I have done a power mod but my method was different. I'll try a soak method tomorrow I think, power down to maybe 30% to start and at TP back on but I don't know, might not work.


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## RDC8

This may be a little off-topic, but as we are talking about damper settings, control of heating, and airflow, I thought I would share an interesting video which I came across this week. This is Rob Hoos talking about airflow and it's impact on the roasting process.






Not sure how much is directly translatable to the Dalian, but there are some pretty interesting concepts which he covers in quite some detail.


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## Rob1

Interesting stuff about the airflow in air roasters towards the end.

I did the profiles today but haven't saved them as images so can't access them now.....they're not great. First one was a 250g batch at a charge temp of 190c that was ok but a little fast, heating element was barely on for that one. SD was set to 2 after 1:30 and then 3-4 later on, CA open through the roast. I then tried another 250g batch with lower charge temp and lower heat setting and it failed to get to first crack. I think the charge temp was fine but I probably lowered heat power to the element too soon. Third roast was 1.2kg and it was the first time I'd roasted the bean and got to first crack later than expected (at a higher temp). Charge temp was 220c and the 30% soak until just after TP didn't appear to have any negative effect on the roast and certainly there were no issues with it being too slow, the element was never on over 85% and not for long at that. Would have been a good roast had I not thought first crack was going to occur about 10c earlier than it did.


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## RDC8

So I experimented yesterday with switching the power off completely just before FC and coasting the rest of the way. Artisan graph below. (This is a honey-process pacamara from El Salvador and is causing me sleepless nights). Power went off around 30 seconds before FC (it's the purple line). Overall I was happy with the time to dry end as I wanted a longer drying time on account of the varietal and the processing method. I was also happy that the ET probe showed the air temp in the drum starting to level-off prior to FC. Not happy to see the BT readings go into free-fall once FC began! It was also interesting to see the BT probe measure another small rise in temp near the end, despite the elements being off for 3 minutes and with a moderate airflow. However, the lower ending heat seems to have reduced the visible charring on the beans and the Roast Vision reading of 18 (Medium) is the lightest I have managed so far on this bean.

Next time I try this approach I will reduce airflow a little more aggressively just as FC starts so as to try and reduce the heat loss. Will cup tomorrow and see how it tastes. Overall, I didn't quite get the result I was after as there is still some visible charring in the seams of the beans; but I'm certainly not calling it a failure 

Any thoughts, observations, or suggestions will be gratefully received.


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## Beeroclock

Hi Rodney

after a crash like that the flick is inevitable. The crash most likely came because of the flat ROR before FC.

This bean is one of the most challenging ones I've had so far, being a Pacamara - it's huge!! and the honey process lets it charr easily. I include 2 profiles one a quicker roast - with higher end temp the second a larger batch (1kg) where I slowed everything down (for me). The aim is to extend the maillard phase and to get enough development in the bean without burning the sugars. The latter roast is very promising - though I will give it a little less soak and slightly longer post FC time next.

The 1kg batch measured 26 on my Roast Vision.

















Alternatively - you could just use "The Force" 

Cheers Phil


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Sorry for the delay in posting - just been a touch busy. I tried 4 roasts where I set the power to a consistent 2400W and kept CA at a consistent 9. All I did was adjust the SD. Must admit I didn't close the SD during FC. Tried turning power off before FC, but maybe not long enough before, Had rise, crash and flick. If I had closed SD that might have helped during FC, but I'm not sure how much it would have helped. Know people will disagree with this, but In those 4 roasts must admit didn't feel like I was have a great control over the roast and the I can make changes mid-roast. I might change my mind if I try more times, but you are only changing the SD so from the original starting point I feel you are limited on what you can quickly adjust.

@RDC8 - thanks for video link I will take a look at all. Still ploughing through his "Modulating the flavour of coffee".

@Rob1 - Sorry don't know, but what roaster do you use?


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Regarding an El Salvador I've attached a roast profile I did on Tuesday for the farmers market next week. Not sure if it's the same as yours "El Salvador - Finca El Diamante" from the Pacas and Pacamara variety. Hope it helps.

Is it me or from my limited experience the El Salvador is the most chaffy coffee I've roasted. I could not believe the amount of chaff that came off - thought Brazil was bad. Cupped it today and tasted good.


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## Rob1

@Dartmoor Coffeethe amazon.


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## RDC8

@Dartmoor Coffee - yeah, the chaff on this bean is pretty bad (Honey Process). I end up having to use the vacuum cleaner to clear the drum before the next roast goes in!

Thanks for sharing the profile.

Did you get a Roast Vision reading for how dark/light this roast went?


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## Dartmoor Coffee

@Rob1 - Ok an amazon. Must admit I've never tried such a small batch weight. Surely that would create a faster roast time. Do you use Artisan or are you reading direct from the Amazon unit? From personal experience I found that the unit displays is a good 20c below the actual reading from the 3mm probe I added. I've also not tried the soak method. Not sure if it would work on the Amazon due to the lagging in the heat elements. From what I read it needs that instant heat, which cannot exist with electric roasters.

@RDC8 - Not yet. I will do it since need to get ready for the market. Will let you know when I've done it. Will try this weekend.

Phil.


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## Rob1

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Ok an amazon. Must admit I've never tried such a small batch weight. Surely that would create a faster roast time. Do you use Artisan or are you reading direct from the Amazon unit? From personal experience I found that the unit displays is a good 20c below the actual reading from the 3mm probe I added. I've also not tried the soak method. Not sure if it would work on the Amazon due to the lagging in the heat elements. From what I read it needs that instant heat, which cannot exist with electric roasters.
> 
> Phil.


 I'm using artisan. The soak method is fine from what I can tell, I've only read one thing on it and decided to see what would happen. The article I read was from Rao and he said something about not recommending having the burners off completely. With an element that translates simply as having it heat up and then switch it off for some early part of the roast (I had it off for about 1:30-2:00) before switching back on. The elements are hot but not nearly as hot as they would be if they were on and turning them back on doesn't take long for them to be up to temp again, logically. I can't think of a reason you'd need instant heat or why a bit of lag would be negative in that stage.


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## Beeroclock

One of the main reasons for "the soak" is for consistent in between batch protocol. This is particularly important on big machines with double wall drums and large thermal mass.

It's questionable how effective it is in a smaller roaster - especially with a perforated drum.

My roaster is single walled and whilst there's a lot of metal (150kg) plus insulation- heat in the drum drops off fairly quickly with burner off.

So when soaking, I use low gas and minimal airflow. This helps me stabilise the machine for the next batch. I also find that this is good way to control the length of one's drying phase - yet still be able to apply sufficient energy into the roast to achieve a decent peak ROR in order to maintain a steadily declining profile.

I think this approach is particularly useful when roasting lower grown naturals, to get heat into the bean without scorching the exterior.

cheers Phil


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## Rob1

The mod for computer control:

The wiring to the control panel is the same as with a dimmer, that is the connection to the element is removed and replaced with a wire, and a dimmer is connected in line. Here though, because I use an LED driver to power the SSR with 10vdc I have to make sure I'm taking live. The LED driver takes live from the input of the SSR via an appropriately rated in line fuse. The controls for the SSR are on top there, two wires go to the Digital Out Phidget, one goes to the LED driver. Neutral for the LED driver is pictured on the terminal block.

Basically the wiring is as follows:

Live - SSR L1 ----- SSR L2 - Heating element
SSR L1 - Fuse - LED in+

LED Neutral - neutral on terminal block (everything is neutral aside from the one live pictured top far left (as far as I can tell).

LED Out +/- to SSR control. Phidget +/- to SSR control.

Allows control over watts drawn of the heating element via artisan sliders or buttons.

There are other phase control or burst fire SSRs you can use that don't require a power supply.


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## Dartmoor Coffee

Hi @Rob1 and @Beeroclock - just been looking at the soaking method. Think I might have mis-understood it or couldn't see how it worked with the roaster taking a long time to heat up so didn't bother. @Rob1 may I ask what is your charge temperature and is this on Artisan or Dalian? Currently charge 195/200 on Artisan (approx 170 on Dalian). I guess I was thinking having no power (or little just say 1000W), will badly affect my roast time. Even now my FC is around 10mins. Not having initial power will put the FC back quite I would suspect unless I have a higher charge temp. If anyone has any profile examples of soaking that would be great. Thanks


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## Dartmoor Coffee

@RDC8 - did 2 tests. One was 17 and the other 18. Medium seems to be my standard roast level,


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## Rob1

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Hi @Rob1 and @Beeroclock - just been looking at the soaking method. Think I might have mis-understood it or couldn't see how it worked with the roaster taking a long time to heat up so didn't bother. @Rob1 may I ask what is your charge temperature and is this on Artisan or Dalian? Currently charge 195/200 on Artisan (approx 170 on Dalian). I guess I was thinking having no power (or little just say 1000W), will badly affect my roast time. Even now my FC is around 10mins. Not having initial power will put the FC back quite I would suspect unless I have a higher charge temp. If anyone has any profile examples of soaking that would be great. Thanks


 I've been charging as high as 220c on the Dalian but it's better lower I think. I really was just messing about with the soak to see what it would do.


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## Beeroclock

https://christopherferan.com/2021/04/21/trains-teslas-and-coffee-roasting/

interesting reading..

cheers Phil


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