# Any tips on removing a stuck group seal?



## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Just hoping someone might have a tip or 2 to help. I'm trying to replace the group seal on my Gaggia Classic. Unfortunately I've not been able to clean it properly for a while and the rubber seal has gone hard in places but not brittle enough to snap. I've tried every tool I can think of to get it out but have only managed to gouge out bits of rubber and hurt my arm. This is just making it harder as there's even less to try and grip. I can't remember how I did it last time but it wasn't this hard. I just can't seem to access it at all and nothing I've tried is doing more than scraping away small bits of rubber. I'm getting rattler by the minute due to caffeine withdrawl. Really hoping someone can suggest something really simple that I've not thought of to try and prise it out? I don't have much strength or dexterity so that's not helping and don't have a vast array of tools to choose from.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

2 wood screw will do the job.

BR


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

If you can, put a screw into it, in the middle of the seal not the edge. As you screw it in it should force the seal out. Ideally a brass one as it will not be so hard as to damage the surface of the metal.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I can't get a screw in. Don't know whether it's me or just that I can't reach anything properly. It's too hard to get a screw in (at least for me to get a screw in). I think I've probably made it worse by trying as I've now got nothing to get a hold of having gouged out bits in the hope that enough would break off. I've been at it for 2 hours now and have to get back to work although sadly without coffee. Don't think I'm going to be able to do this by myself.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

get a small thin screwdriver, turn the machine upside down then press and twist the screwdriver into the seal until you make a small hole, then lever out the seal and shout

"TAKE THAT YOU MUTHA****ER"


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> get a small thin screwdriver, turn the machine upside down then press and twist the screwdriver into the seal until you make a small hole, then lever out the seal and shout
> 
> "TAKE THAT YOU MUTHA****ER"


that's my approach as well.

When I get machines on my workbench that haven't seen too much love for a while 

What I mean to say... if a group gasket is hard and baked into its recess (and no e61 shower screen that interlocks with gasket) someone should've exchanged it sooner.

Two options now: 1.21 gigawatts or brute force


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

jimbojohn55 said:


> get a small thin screwdriver, turn the machine upside down then press and twist the screwdriver into the seal until you make a small hole, then lever out the seal and shout
> 
> "TAKE THAT YOU MUTHA****ER"


 I'm nervous about turning it upside down. Completely upside down? Not on its back? Is it ok to do that?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Yep if you have taken the water out of the tank

the main thing is to swear at the same time - it makes all the difference

here is Brian blessed for inspiration


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Yep if you have taken the water out of the tank


 Would be a bit messy if water in the tank. Will give that a go later. At least easier access. Thanks.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Will make sure to swear. A lot.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Yep if you have taken the water out of the tank
> 
> the main thing is to swear at the same time - it makes all the difference
> 
> here is Brian blessed for inspiration


now go on and forking repeat that to my mother!



...sorry...


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hammer and chisel job. And don't forget we like a video here ?


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

MildredM said:


> Hammer and chisel job. And don't forget we like a video here ?


 How many hands do you think I have? ?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Kitkat said:


> How many hands do you think I have?


one to grab chisel, one to swing hammer, and erm... one to hold up the phone!

You might wanna ask somebody to hit record button for you, though...


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

I drilled a pilot hole with a dremel then screwed in one of the dremel posts that the felt polishing pad goes on. Gave enough purchase to pull it off with a pair of pliers.


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

I have a set of something like these Picking tools ⛏ which have been used for de-O-ringing and removing stones from tyres and a dozen other things i never thought i needed them for.

The L shaped one you can get under, or hook into the gasket and tear bits off.

There is a certain nice revenge feeling you get when it comes out, and snapping it into tiny little pieces - that is also when the epiphany moment that silicone ones, don't seem so expensive. :good:


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

We have success :classic_biggrin: . It pretty much came down to chisel and hammer in the end. That and a nail, a screw, 5 screwdrivers, a teaspoon and a curtain hook. Brian Blessed was a huge inspiration. It has now been replaced with a silicone one. guess who's going to be having coffee at 10pm.

I think this Friday evening was marginally more entertaining than last week's which was spent with a severely constipated cat and contemplating whether an emergency vet visit was needed. Tough call though.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Too hasty. We have a problem. It's nit warming up. Brew light is on but after more than half an hour it's only slightly warm to the touch. Brew light doesn't seem to be going out so guess it's just getting colder and colder. I got some hot water out by using steam switch.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Kitkat said:


> Too hasty. We have a problem. It's nit warming up. Brew light is on but after more than half an hour it's only slightly warm to the touch. Brew light doesn't seem to be going out so guess it's just getting colder and colder. I got some hot water out by using steam switch.


 Oh, I was about to say make sure to heat it up, as the seal gets more elastic and easier to remove, but as I read it wouldn't heat up. Good job you could get it out.

Once you disconnected from mains and let it cool down (check the group head by hand touch) unscrew and remove the top cover and check the boiler and stat connections.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

FairRecycler said:


> Oh, I was about to say make sure to heat it up, as the seal gets more elastic and easier to remove, but as I read it wouldn't heat up. Good job you could get it out.
> 
> Once you disconnected from mains and let it cool down (check the group head by hand touch) unscrew and remove the top cover and check the boiler and stat connections.


 That's beyond me. I'm going to have to pay someone to look at it. It needs a service anyway just a pain that I now need it in a hurry and dont' know where to take it. I guess a connection has come loose when I tipped it upside down? When I first switched it back on all seemed well. After a few minutes the brew light came on as it usually does but I always let it heat up for at least 20 minutes. After a good half hour or so I went to use it and found the portafilter didn't seem more than warm. I was able to touch the group and it was just lukewarm as was the water coming out. I was able to get the water a bit hotter by leaving the steam switch on for a while. Now, after being off for a couple of hours, I've just switched it on and the brew button lit up with the on switch right at the start. They come on and off together every time. What does this indicate?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Kitkat said:


> That's beyond me. I'm going to have to pay someone to look at it. It needs a service anyway just a pain that I now need it in a hurry and dont' know where to take it. I guess a connection has come loose when I tipped it upside down? When I first switched it back on all seemed well. After a few minutes the brew light came on as it usually does but I always let it heat up for at least 20 minutes. After a good half hour or so I went to use it and found the portafilter didn't seem more than warm. I was able to touch the group and it was just lukewarm as was the water coming out. I was able to get the water a bit hotter by leaving the steam switch on for a while. Now, after being off for a couple of hours, I've just switched it on and the brew button lit up with the on switch right at the start. They come on and off together every time. What does this indicate?


 That sounds like a dead thermostat to me. Was it working ok before?

I can do service as a some others here. Where are you based?


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

FairRecycler said:


> That sounds like a dead thermostat to me. Was it working ok before?
> 
> I can do service as a some others here. Where are you based?


 It was working fine this morning. Thought I'd cracked it when it seemed to work earlier this evening.

I'm in Manchester. If anyone in the north west could come and do a service that would be great as I don't fancy packing it up and taking it somewhere and definitely not happy to post it anywhere.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Kitkat said:


> It was working fine this morning. Thought I'd cracked it when it seemed to work earlier this evening.
> 
> I'm in Manchester. If anyone in the north west could come and do a service that would be great as I don't fancy packing it up and taking it somewhere and definitely not happy to post it anywhere.


 There must be someone, if not I do collection postage service. I send you out appropriate box including packaging materials and prepaid postage label, you just pack it and drop it off at local post office or myHermes point depends on your preference. However it comes with a price.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Once it's here I also do almost every possible upgrade (PID, pressure gauge, brass plate, WiFi switch, Rancilio Silvia V1-2 steam wand) if you plan any of these.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

FairRecycler said:


> Once it's here I also do almost every possible upgrade (PID, pressure gauge, brass plate, WiFi switch, Rancilio Silvia V1-2 steam wand) if you plan any of these.


 Thanks I'll bear that in mind if I can't find anyone nearer.

I'll take a quick look inside tomorrow and see if I can see any obvious wire come loose but might not be easy with the brew thermostat being in a bit of an inaccessible place.


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## christos_geo (Feb 9, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> Thanks I'll bear that in mind if I can't find anyone nearer.
> I'll take a quick look inside tomorrow and see if I can see any obvious wire come loose but might not be easy with the brew thermostat being in a bit of an inaccessible place.


Even if it is the thermostat don't stress! It's one of the easiest and cheapest things to replace. Can get them off eBay for next to nothing. That plus some thermal paste. 
However maybe just check that your boiler is full with water and there are no kinks in water feeding tube. Seem to remember that if you leave steam and valve open and activate both brew and steam switch you should get water through. If your water flow is normal but on the cool side, then ignore that last part









Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Can you just flush it properly?
maybe an air lock prevents heat transfer.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I'm Nero having a double macchiato. See what I've been reduced to?


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Well this is the state of play:

switch machine on and both on and brew lights come on. Machine does not heat up. Water comes out of group ok it's just cold. Flick the steam switch on and it heats up. Switch that off and I have hot water. Random temperature of course but I can then get hot water coming through the group and can make something that passes for coffee. That was the situation up to about 15 minutes ago.

So I switch the steam on to get hot water, switch it off when I think it's roughly right temperature and make a coffee. Then the brew light goes out. Then on again. As per normal.


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## christos_geo (Feb 9, 2016)

Def sounds like a broken thermostat or a loose wire to the thermostat perhaps. Did you check all your wires are dry and connected?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Sounds like a defective brew stat (one down R/H side) simple screw out and screw new one in (DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN JUST FINGER TIGHT plus a fraction of a turn with a .spanner


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I don't think it can be a coincidence that this has happened after I've been messing about with it and tipping it upside down. So hopefully it's just a loose wire. Especially if it seems to be working intermittently. Messing about with the insides of the machine is not really my forte (numb, arthritic fingers and wrists) but when I have time I will have a look and see whether I can see anything obvious that has come loose.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

It is working normally this morning. Guess that suggests a loose wire or something that is causing an intermittent problem. I'm really busy this weekend so will leave opening it up to have a look as long as it's working ok. I still could do with someone doing a service and OPV mod although not as urgent now. Does anyone know of someone in Manchester who would come to my house to do this? I could take it somewhere but it's heavy for me to carry. Posting it anywhere is last resort.


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