# My review of the Minima



## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

I have had my new Minima for around 3 weeks now. For context, prior to buying a Minima, I have owned:


Gaggia Classic

Bezzera Mitica Top

Rocket Giotto Evolution

ECM Mechanika Profi

NS Oscar II

Sage Dual Boiler

Sage Oracle


As you can see, I started out with HX machines and often spent the extra on things like build and a Rotary pump. The Oscar was me wanting to see what a lower budget would get, and the Sage machines were my first foray into Dual boiler setups. I really liked the Sage machines for the quick startup times and ease of use, but I always felt that I wanted to get a more traditional machine, made of metal and with an E61. This was for a number of reasons:


Ease of maintenance

Availability of parts

Repeatability

It just looked nicer


I held off buying a machine for a few months after selling the Oracle. I looked at the Lelit Mara and Bianca. I looked at a Vesuvius. What I decided after lots of help and debate was that there wasn't much point buying a HX mara when for not much more I could get the Dual Boiler Minima. I decided that while I would enjoy the Bianca paddle and playing with that, I didn't feel that I would personally benefit from the extra £650 spent on the machine. I felt that the Minima would tick all the boxes for me and it would save me some money.

It arrived and I have to see it looks much better in the flesh than on photos. It is well built, and the user manual by Dave C makes it very easy to set up the machine when it arrives. It slots in nicely in the corner of the worktop and looks really smart.

It comes with pads for the feet (nice touch) and a stand for the drip tray along with a couple of portafilters and spare group gaskets (nice touch again).

I adjusted the offset on the PID to 17 per Dave Cs instructions and set the Brew boiler to 93. Mine arrived with the Service boiler at 110 for some reason and also no offset set, and it caused some confusion with steaming until I realised it needed to be set to 125. I should have read the manual but I also sent a note to BB as I feel they should have made sure it was set up when they bench tested.

The vibe pump is pretty quiet in my view, and I can make drinks and not disturb anyone.

The slow ramp up in pressure produces wonderfully sweet shots of espresso and I have been finding that following my routine produces great shots:


5 second flush to warm group

18g in 36g out in 32 seconds


I found that my technique needs to be improved as the bottomless portafilter I am using is showing channelling and that's something where I know it can only get better!

I am using a Mignon specialita and also a Niche Zero. The Niche has been getting the most use as I love the workflow and lack of mess, and the grind quality is very good.

Milk steaming is exceptional. Its fast, so you need to adjust if you have been used to a slower time to stretch and swirl, but with this its just a few seconds stretching the milk and the rest of the time swirling. Great milk, every time. I like the milk extra hot which has been easy to achieve on this machine.

All in all, I would say that for £1200 this cant be beaten. In fact, looking at the market right now, for £1500 this couldn't be beaten for value/features. The next logical purchase from a retailer would be a Bianca, and then beyond that a Vesuvius but that would not be from BB.

I would say if you are on the fence, I would go for it. I haven't looked back since I got it and I wouldn't get anything else. I honestly feel that my time experimenting is over and that I am going to be very happy with the great shots the Niche and the Minima produce, and just work on my consistency.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

+1 for Minima, Niche and above routine (18/36g in 30-35s)

And thanks for sharing your story mate!

Great stuff and welcome to the Minima Owners Club  (when do we get our own sub space? )


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just a little tip...my view of the stock basket is that for many coffees they bulk up so much when ground that 17g rather than 18g could be a better weight and I have been trialling that for a few days now. Of course certain light roast coffees and varietals won't bulk up as much as others when ground...but give 17g a go and see how you find it. I might well post up a shot of the same coffee i9n the same time using 17g instead of 18g.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

What is the ramp up time on your machine? The videos posted by Davec showed that it is quite fast at 3 secs which is 2 or 3 secs faster than a standard e61 with PI. A fast ramp up does not help with channeling.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Oh just as an aside....retailers hate the Minima for it's looks







but don't seem to realise that consumers are getting smarter and specification wise and really want performance as well (hopefully partly down to me, but I suspect not). Quite a few now have sold far more than they expected and been caught short on stock! They also fail to look beyond the end of their noses, because of course they don't actually USE the machines. Once someone uses the Minima....after a few days or weeks they realise it just makes sense. It's shape makes sense, the lack of faff makes sense, it's simplicity makes sense and it does produce a very very good shot....

I'm also glad the slow ramp has been appreciated, having lost count of the rotary pumped machines I have used with mechanical E61 groups, the infusion rate is way lower in the Minima. No one can know what the future holds for Minima, but the market *needs* the pressure of machines like this to rein in prices a little, it's really getting out of control. My objective/interest was to help them with the design of a dual boiler for the price of an HX. Achieved was a dual boiler for the price of some HXs, the Mara is still cheaper, but not by mutch.

Oh I see a certain person has posted....probably telling you an owner about your machine.....


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Nikko said:


> What is the ramp up time on your machine? The videos posted by Davec showed that it is quite fast at 3 secs which is 2 or 3 secs faster than a standard e61 with PI. A fast ramp up does not help with channeling.


It's around 7-8 seconds on mine, usually.

On my Rocket Evo 2 it's at 4-5 usually.

Maybe you should get one and try it  it's really cool!


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hasi said:


> It's around 7-8 seconds on mine, usually.
> 
> On my Rocket Evo 2 it's at 4-5 usually.
> 
> Maybe you should get one and try it  it's really cool!


Mine is the same as Hasi, really nice and slow. The channelling is my technique as usually i used a double spout and didnt pay much attention, but now I am using a bottomless PF I can see what to work on.


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Just a little tip...my view of the stock basket is that for many coffees they bulk up so much when ground that 17g rather than 18g could be a better weight and I have been trialling that for a few days now. Of course certain light roast coffees and varietals won't bulk up as much as others when ground...but give 17g a go and see how you find it. I might well post up a shot of the same coffee i9n the same time using 17g instead of 18g.


I used an IMS basket I picked up so havent used the stock one. But I do still have it one other PF so may give 17g a go. I love the fact everything is so simple on this Minima I can play around with variables like this.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Just a little tip...my view of the stock basket is that for many coffees they bulk up so much when ground that 17g rather than 18g could be a better weight and I have been trialling that for a few days now. Of course certain light roast coffees and varietals won't bulk up as much as others when ground...but give 17g a go and see how you find it. I might well post up a shot of the same coffee i9n the same time using 17g instead of 18g.




I have one variety requiring only 16g, so there's plenty room to play around!

But I also switched standard baskets with my Rocket as the one that came with the Minima extracts one or two seconds faster. Couldn't really see a difference, but holes perhaps are just a few microns bigger...


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Hasi said:


> It's around 7-8 seconds on mine, usually.
> 
> On my Rocket Evo 2 it's at 4-5 usually.
> 
> Maybe you should get one and try it  it's really cool!


The video in post 32 on the "ACS minima dual boiler or alternatives" thread clearly shows the ramp up time to be 3 seconds. How do you measure yours?

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?49011-ACS-Minima-dual-boiler-machine-or-alternatives/page4


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Nikko said:


> The video in post 32 on the "ACS minima dual boiler or alternatives" thread clearly shows the ramp up time to be 3 seconds. How do you measure yours?
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?49011-ACS-Minima-dual-boiler-machine-or-alternatives/page4


I count to 7


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Hasi said:


> I count to 7


Video with a timer and pressure gauge installed in the head and the test repeated several times shows 3 secs. What are you actually counting?

Why would the Minima have a slow ramp up as there is nothing in it to slow it down. Vibe pump is not the answer.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Nikko said:


> Video with a timer and pressure gauge installed in the head and the test repeated several times shows 3 secs. What are you actually counting?
> 
> Why would the Minima have a slow ramp up as there is nothing in it to slow it down. Vibe pump is not the answer.


I'm counting seconds


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I think the explanation in the video you mention is at about 6.10 mins ....


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nicknak said:


> I think the explanation in the video you mention is at about 6.10 mins ....


It is, but somehow that seems to have been missed?


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Having watched the video again, with the blind filter full of water the Minima ramp up is actually a lot less than 3 seconds, perhaps 2 or even less. In a similar situation an e61 with PI takes 2 to 3 second longer to ramp up. In the video after 6.10 mins, the system is full of air so you are compressing air. All it shows is that air is compressible so not a valid demonstration of ramp up.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Nikko said:


> Having watched the video again, with the blind filter full of water the Minima ramp up is actually a lot less than 3 seconds, perhaps 2 or even less. In a similar situation an e61 with PI takes 2 to 3 second longer to ramp up. In the video after 6.10 mins, the system is full of air so you are compressing air. All it shows is that air is compressible so not a valid demonstration of ramp up.


And the users/owners are experiencing the same slow ramp up in real life .. Perhaps it's magic ...


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

It must be magic. May be the video showing the actual ramp up is magic too.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Nikko said:


> It must be magic. May be the video showing the actual ramp up is magic too.


Genuine question. I don't follow your logic. In what way is the video where the PF has presumably been engaged for the first time - at 6.10 - and then the machine run not valid? Why would it be more valid that it has been run several times already with the PF in place, thereby having a situation which you wouldn't actually have in making a coffee?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nicknak said:


> And the users/owners are experiencing the same slow ramp up in real life .. Perhaps it's magic ...


The sharp eyed will also have noticed that the flow actually starts before full pressure is achieved, indicating a perfusion of the coffee puck during the ramp phase. I love magic though...it's more fun than science, or even factual proof.










@jlarkin, he is neglecting the fact that against a totally static load a pump with a ramp rate 5 10 or 1000x greater will show the same rise of the needle, that's how the physics works. The water is not compressible (essentially) and because of this will quickly rise to the pumps max pressure delivery capability regardless of flow/pressure curves....no matter what they are. introduce a non static load and things become very different and there the water debit of a rotary pump has a huge effect...hence the expansion valve to try and help. In realist the expansion valves give a VERY tiny hesitation with rotary pumped machines. Unfortunately with a mind that's already made up, there is no logical reasoning.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Found an image of the actual ramp up.

Nikko was right, it's indeed very steep.










Next to it we can see Dave, trying to lean sideways in an attempt to confuse the viewer's perspective and giving the impression of a flat ramp.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

jlarkin said:


> Genuine question. I don't follow your logic. In what way is the video where the PF has presumably been engaged for the first time - at 6.10 - and then the machine run not valid? Why would it be more valid that it has been run several times already with the PF in place, thereby having a situation which you wouldn't actually have in making a coffee?


Apples should be compared with apples. A complete e61 with a PI chamber slows the ramp up by opening and filling this chamber at around 2 or 3 bars which slows the ramp up by 2 or 3 seconds y. The Minima does not have this facility. The claimed "slow" ramp up is due to air being compressed and you will see it on any machine.

If the Minima can genuinly achieve a slowing in ramp up time compared to other similar machines, then there must be a mechanism to do so. May be somebody can explain what it is and how it works. Or do we believe in magic?


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> The sharp eyed will also have noticed that the flow actually starts before full pressure is achieved, indicating a perfusion of the coffee puck during the ramp phase. I love magic though...it's more fun than science, or even factual proof.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This does not make any sense. The only bit I agree is that water is not compressible. In what way is the Minima different to other similar machines to slow down the ramp up.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Anyway @np123

Loved your Mini review, hope you guys do get a forum area for the Minima. No offence meant, but I'm actually going to put the whole thread on ignore, that way i won't get any alerts or see any posts at all. so I won't be posting on here again.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Anyway @np123
> 
> Loved your Mini review, hope you guys do get a forum area for the Minima. No offence meant, but I'm actually going to put the whole thread on ignore, that way i won't get any alerts or see any posts at all. so I won't be posting on here again.


the person who initiated the claim and who should know how it works if genuine runs away. Tells you all you need to know.


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Nikko said:


> the person who initiated the claim and who should know how it works if genuine runs away. Tells you all you need to know.


Nothing against you personally Nikko, but I dislike that you are posting in the way you are and especially targeting what Dave C is saying and I am sure i am not the only one. If people have experience of using machines then its fair play to add input but you havent used a Minima and just seem to try WUM your way through things. Those of us that have, love it, so either we are all wrong or perhaps you are. Dave is a great source of input and info to many on here and the fact he is even having to mute threads because of you is not on. I'd suggest if you dont want to be part of this community then dont, but its getting a bit boring either way now.


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Nikko said:


> the person who initiated the claim and who should know how it works if genuine runs away. Tells you all you need to know.


Actually.. it tells me all I need to know about you. Or maybe that is what you meant?


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

np123 said:


> Nothing against you personally Nikko, but I dislike that you are posting in the way you are and especially targeting what Dave C is saying and I am sure i am not the only one. If people have experience of using machines then its fair play to add input but you havent used a Minima and just seem to try WUM your way through things. Those of us that have, love it, so either we are all wrong or perhaps you are. Dave is a great source of input and info to many on here and the fact he is even having to mute threads because of you is not on. I'd suggest if you dont want to be part of this community then dont, but its getting a bit boring either way now.


i am sorry you dislike my posts. This forum is to share information and some people may appreciate to know that the Minima does not have magic properties. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Nikko said:


> i am sorry you dislike my posts. This forum is to share information and some people may appreciate to know that the Minima does not have magic properties. I'd be happy to be proved wrong.


It isn't the way you attempt to share information, constructive or otherwise (usually the latter), it's your downright sarcastic attitude and accusations that are enough to make many of us set certain threads to 'ignore'.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

MildredM said:


> It isn't the way you attempt to share information, constructive or otherwise (usually the latter), it's your downright sarcastic attitude and accusations that are enough to make many of us set certain threads to 'ignore'.


i thought I was constructive, referring to evidence in DaveC videos. Sarcasm? You must be a very sensitive soul. Anyway, why do you think it is not being clarified when it would be so easy to do. Why do people talk about me instead of the issues I raise?


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@Nikko I have only been a member for less than a year ... In my recollection most if not all of your have been in retaliation to a post by DaveC and many are of a personal nature. To the point that anything you say gets lost in " oh no it's him again " . I do not know either of you but it seems you have a personal vendetta against him .

I don't recollect you joining in with any other thread in a constructive way ..

You have hijacked this thread where a member was telling us about the joy he had in his new machine ..

Perhaps you could open a thread and fully explain any expertise you have and possibly fully explain your reasons for suggesting what you mean..


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

I am sorry you think I hijacked this thread. I recall I was responding to the chanelling problems of the Minima which the op experiences.


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Nikko said:


> I am sorry you think I hijacked this thread. I recall I was responding to the chanelling problems of the Minima which the op experiences.


No problems other than the user. I never used a naked PF before so it's exposed where I need to get distribution right. It would have happened on any machine, so isn't relevant. I only mentioned it in the context of the absolute pleasure I am getting in learning and enjoying along the way.


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

np123 said:


> No problems other than the user. I never used a naked PF before so it's exposed where I need to get distribution right. It would have happened on any machine, so isn't relevant. I only mentioned it in the context of the absolute pleasure I am getting in learning and enjoying along the way.


 @Nikko

Take it on the chin and start tomorrow anew and you'll make some good acquaintances on here. It's a great place and you clearly want to contribute, but do it right and you'll get more out of it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can anyone tell me if the 2 boilers have drain plugs on them?


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the 2 boilers have drain plugs on them?


I don't think they do as they are sealed units.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Can anyone tell me if the 2 boilers have drain plugs on them?


Don't recall seeing any when looking for an electrical problem on my Beta unit.

They're stainless steel afaik, so a regular descale wouldn't hurt them or make it necessary to drain and rinse.

Or was your question referring to magical properties by any chance?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I just wondered how easy it would be to rescale without drain plugs. It is one of the reasons I run an HX


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I just wondered how easy it would be to rescale without drain plugs. It is one of the reasons I run an HX


Flush a lot!

I run some 8-10l fresh water through my Rocket single boiler after putting in a descaling agent.

It's about time on the Minima now, so will consult the manual anytime soon...


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Easy if you siphon descaler in and out via the top of the boilers and then the same with fresh water until the taste goes. The service boiler can be done easily through the hot water tap but I'd be tempted to siphon in and out with that too just because the boiler is so large and it's probably better for the heating element. The manual states which fixture is best to remove to get in via the top.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I seem to remember when I had a Profitec 700, both boilers had taps on and I am just slightly surprised that such a well thought through machine as the Minima does not follow suit. This is why I like my Nota, even though I admire the Minima and have thought about getting one, but with the HX, once a year I put in some descale solution then simply flush it thorough with large amounts of clean water. Not everyone wants to take panels off and open inspection hatches etc......but I also appreciate, that many do enjoy that as well


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Fair enough. You do just need to take the cup warmer off with about 5/6 hex screws (3/4 on top 2 at the back) to access the top of the boilers. Draining from holes on the bottom of the case would be nice but I think one of the reasons they went for welded heating elements was to prevent the possibility of leaks that can cause damage and to save space, so maybe having a tap down there wouldn't make sense given that. It's a clever idea to have a little tap you can just attach a hose to and open up though.


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## thesmileyone (Sep 27, 2016)

I didn't even know this machine existed, it seems like a game changer.

Is there going to be an option to buy it with a rotary pump?

The vibration pump seems very loud in comparison to your voice in the videos. In the summer I change my sleep schedule round so that I make my first coffee at 4-5am in the morning, I currently sacrifice coffee quality for noise and therefore hand-grind my coffee then use a V60 to make a latte so not to wake up everyone in the household at such time.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

No chance of getting a rotary in there I don't think, even if you remove the water tank. You could likely convert it with an external pump.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

If it were only for the noise, then there's other options than exchanging the pump.

As widely disagreed above  the Minima offers such a nice package that allows for slow ramp rate. Chances are that changing this winning team will likely compromise overall performance, no?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

You can just add a valve after the pump to control pressure/flow rate. My Minima ramps up gradually to 9 bar in pretty much the same time as my full E61 Expobar, the difference being that the expobar rises quickly first to about 4 bar and then quickly to 9 bar after a short delay.


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## thesmileyone (Sep 27, 2016)

Cool so one of these and a niche, perfect pairing?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

thesmileyone said:


> Cool so one of these and a niche, perfect pairing?


Deffo!

Love it every time


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Hasi said:


> Deffo!
> 
> Love it every time


I second that.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

dfk41 said:


> I seem to remember when I had a Profitec 700, both boilers had taps on and I am just slightly surprised that such a well thought through machine as the Minima does not follow suit. This is why I like my Nota, even though I admire the Minima and have thought about getting one, but with the HX, once a year I put in some descale solution then simply flush it thorough with large amounts of clean water. Not everyone wants to take panels off and open inspection hatches etc......but I also appreciate, that many do enjoy that as well


 I know very late i think perhaps you could switch the service boiler off and mainly empty with the pump and repeat. Like i say bit late 😂😂😂😂


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Border_all said:


> I know very late i think perhaps you could switch the service boiler off and mainly empty with the pump and repeat. Like i say bit late 😂😂😂😂


 You can't empty the service boiler with the pump. You can just drain until empty via the hot water wand, refill and repeat a few times. The same is true for a HX. The issue is with descaling the brew boiler which takes forever. An obvious solution is to not use water that scales but it would be nice if there were an easy way to drain brew boilers. You can just remove the cup warming tray and a fixture from the top of the boiler then syphon descaler in and out though, which is easy enough with the Minima but not all machines have easy access like that. For example, I think the Expobar DB requires removal of the entire case and then the water carrier before you can remove another plate that covers the top of boilers.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> You can't empty the service boiler with the pump. You can just drain until empty via the hot water wand, refill and repeat a few times. The same is true for a HX. The issue is with descaling the brew boiler which takes forever. An obvious solution is to not use water that scales but it would be nice if there were an easy way to drain brew boilers. You can just remove the cup warming tray and a fixture from the top of the boiler then syphon descaler in and out though, which is easy enough with the Minima but not all machines have easy access like that. For example, I think the Expobar DB requires removal of the entire case and then the water carrier before you can remove another plate that covers the top of boilers.


 Ah thank you it was reading the get machine ready for use instruction. The process you described is very much the same as i used on the La Spaziale. I feel lucky that having the Osmio scale should not be an issue in the future

I was searching for the ACS Minima forum when i found the post. Perhaps one day the moderators may start one for owners. I am hopeful of getting one provided i can locate one 😁

Thanks for the clarification 👍


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## Duy Ngao Du (Jun 16, 2020)

can it adjust the fineness of coffee powder?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Duy Ngao Du said:


> can it adjust the fineness of coffee powder?


 No it's an espresso machine not a grinder.


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## Duy Ngao Du (Jun 16, 2020)

Thank for your replying!!!!!


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I really don't understand why the Minima doesn't have its own area.....just really weird or someone being obstinate! 
The ramp on mine is 7 odd seconds?

@np123What is the PID offset please?


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

nicholasj said:


> I really don't understand why the Minima doesn't have its own area.....just really weird or someone being obstinate!
> The ramp on mine is 7 odd seconds?
> 
> @np123What is the PID offset please?


 Fair point, could easily rename the Vesuvius forum to the ACS forum


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

catpuccino said:


> Fair point, could easily rename the Vesuvius forum to the ACS forum


 Exactly......and never an explanation is forthcoming!


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