# Some interesting Custom Levers



## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

When doing some research found this guy in Oz doing custom and restorations of vintage levers. Some very very interesting projects, thought it may interest some on here...

http://coffeemachinist.com.au/


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## ZappyAd (Jul 19, 2017)

Interesting perspective on the londinium project. In his view temperature stability is pretty poor.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

ZappyAd said:


> Interesting perspective on the londinium project. In his view temperature stability is pretty poor.


Don't believe all you read as gospel.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ZappyAd said:


> Interesting perspective on the londinium project. In his view temperature stability is pretty poor.


I can categorically say I haven't experienced this! I wouldn't be getting such consistent results if that were the case for a start


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Original Londinium was based around a thermosyphon = Londinium R isn't. After the launch of Londinium I, some owners were reporting problems with temp stability. Reiss's response covers this  here 

You can stally the thermosyphon by extended pre-infusion time, i.e. leaving the lever cocked prior to releasing it to pull a shot. If the thermosyphon stalls, group temp is duly affected.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Original Londinium was based around a thermosyphon = Londinium R isn't. After the launch of Londinium I, some owners were reporting problems with temp stability. Reiss's response covers this  here
> 
> You can stally the thermosyphon by extended pre-infusion time, i.e. leaving the lever cocked prior to releasing it to pull a shot. If the thermosyphon stalls, group temp is duly affected.


Really? I thought the R used a thermosyphon


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

RobW said:


> Really? I thought the R used a thermosyphon


 "it depends how far you take 'exactly the same'. at a conceptual level yes, but at a detailed level the LONDINIUM R uses the same horizontal heat exchanger that we used in the LONDINIUM I (2012-2016) boiler, whereas the new L1, L2, and L3 have an inclined heat exchanger and of course larger boilers"

Reiss, Londinium Espresso


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

RobW said:


> Really? I thought the R used a thermosyphon


It does but it's a different configuration to the old L-1P. The stability of your lever group depends on a number of factors - it's mass, is is a Thermosyphon or dipper, does it have electrical assistance for warming up (a al Bezzera Strega), ambient temp of the room, how the lever group is attached to the boiler.

Generally speaking (anyone feel free to correct me here) Lever group heads are more temp stable as they're bigger/have more mass, once they are up to temp of course.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ATZ said:


> Generally speaking (anyone feel free to correct me here) Lever group heads are more temp stable as they're bigger/have more mass, once they are up to temp of course.


I think it would be interesting to see independent testing of the temperature characteristics of levers beyond stability.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I think it would be interesting to see independent testing of the temperature characteristics of levers beyond stability.


There is a thread on HB where someone has done exactly this. I'll see if I can dig it out.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

@DavecUK this thread from page 2 onwards:

https://www.home-barista.com/levers/temperature-management-on-dipper-levers-t42611-10.html


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ATZ said:


> @DavecUK this thread from page 2 onwards:
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/levers/temperature-management-on-dipper-levers-t42611-10.html


Seen those before, tell you nothing about brew water temperature, the measurements although interesting on the outside of the group, don't mean a huge amount....I'd like to see proper independent studies of brew water temperature that were independent. Using something like a scace II or similar device etc..


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Seen those before, tell you nothing about brew water temperature, the measurements although interesting on the outside of the group, don't mean a huge amount....I'd like to see proper independent studies of brew water temperature that were independent. Using something like a scace II or similar device etc..


Now I'm not claiming anything, but I think I've read that declining pressure/temperature profile is preferred anyway?

Are we tasting numbers or what's in the cup?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> Now I'm not claiming anything, but I think I've read that declining pressure/temperature profile is preferred anyway?
> 
> Are we tasting numbers or what's in the cup?


I think it's more about understanding what's happening.....not tasting numbers. I did not say anything at all about taste, or what was better or worse in the cup. I don't really have any preconceptions in this area.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I think it's more about understanding what's happening.....not tasting numbers. I did not say anything at all about taste, or what was better or worse in the cup. I don't really have any preconceptions in this area.


Yeah, me neither - I just stopped caring after getting a good shot one after another! There's still area for improvement, of course.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Seen those before, tell you nothing about brew water temperature, the measurements although interesting on the outside of the group, don't mean a huge amount....I'd like to see proper independent studies of brew water temperature that were independent. Using something like a scace II or similar device etc..


 @DavecUK this is a quote from later in that thread:



> Checked the Sorrento's group idle temp this morning after the machine had been on unused for 4 hours. Placed the TC in the same location you show in your photo. Idle temp cycles between 165.7-166.4 with a room temp of 74°F. With no flush at all I see a peak shot water temp of 198°F-199°F measuring water temp with a calibrated Scace 1.


Maybe sheds some light on it? At least for a Bosco style lever group.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I received a lifetime ban on coffee snobs, for daring to speak the truth.......they were incensed that Londinium would not offer them a deal whereby a couple of their members/sponsors could import whereas the model was to deal direct. This caused them to run a post that I contributed to whereby them took an L1 and slagged it off, to the point they decided to make it better by making it a dual boiler and a whole host of other changes, calling it the australianum machine. it was just a piss take. I posted suggesting the real reason for this attempted decimation was purely greed and not liking being cut out of the supply chain.

I received a ban for life and they removed all my posts and a lot of connected stuff.......F*** them is what I say


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I received a lifetime ban on coffee snobs, for daring to speak the truth.......they were incensed that Londinium would not offer them a deal whereby a couple of their members/sponsors could import whereas the model was to deal direct. This caused them to run a post that I contributed to whereby them took an L1 and slagged it off, to the point they decided to make it better by making it a dual boiler and a whole host of other changes, calling it the australianum machine. it was just a piss take. I posted suggesting the real reason for this attempted decimation was purely greed and not liking being cut out of the supply chain.
> 
> I received a ban for life and they removed all my posts and a lot of connected stuff.......F*** them is what I say


Wow. That sounds a pretty unsavoury thing all round.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I received a lifetime ban on coffee snobs


Really?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Really?


a blessing in disguise is what I say....it is such a commercially run site......nothing wrong with that but not my cup of tea.......I believe in free speech!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Being banned by any forum that titles itself 'snobs' is an accolade. Wear your ban with pride, David.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ATZ said:


> @DavecUK this is a quote from later in that thread:
> 
> Maybe sheds some light on it? At least for a Bosco style lever group.


Sounds like that's it then....definitive. I'm sure I over test machines when I come up with PID and temperature settings. good job I don't do very many nowadays....takes days and all all different temps and conditions.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Sounds like that's it then....definitive. I'm sure I over test machines when I come up with PID and temperature settings. good job I don't do very many nowadays....takes days and all all different temps and conditions.


I didn't say it WAS definitive @DavecUK I was simply relaying some info from that thread.

Have you reviewed many levers out of interest? I've only read your E61 work.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ATZ said:


> I didn't say it WAS definitive @DavecUK I was simply relaying some info from that thread.
> 
> Have you reviewed many levers out of interest? I've only read your E61 work.


I've looked at a few...but not really had a reason or interest to get involved. it's why i never bothered with the QM lever that BB had. Apart from when it wasn't working to at least let QM know what they had done wrong and how they could fix it. I only did that because I happened to be at BB at the time and someone removed the case so I could have a quick look. I saw the problem in a minute or two and let QM know how to fix.

I "might" end up reviewing the dual boiler lever single group Vostok for ACS, because it moves lever development on from where things are today....depends how I feel. I might suggest someone else to review it...perhaps a knowledgable forum member....anyway it's a little ways off yet. Hence a mild interest over the years in what's actually going on, rather than all the guesses. Looks like someone scaced one though doesn't it.

P.S. I'm pretty sure i did not say that you said it's definitive....I said it looks definitive....and I am sure is as far as HB is concerned.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

ATZ said:


> When doing some research found this guy in Oz doing custom and restorations of vintage levers. Some very very interesting projects, thought it may interest some on here...
> 
> http://coffeemachinist.com.au/


Is there anybody in the UK doing this kind of thing? Some seriously cool projects on his Instagram. I love the GS3 side panels. I know there is Titus Grinding in Germany but he is super high end.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

There are a few guys over here that are doing some great stuff with Lever restorations


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> There are a few guys over here that are doing some great stuff with Lever restorations


I've been speaking to a guy on ebay who restores levers. He imports wrecks from Italy and Spain and restores them, more of a hobby than business. He's offered me an invite to go and visit and he does take restoration commissions so I'm gonna go and get some pictures for here too.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Is he in cambridge


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Or Liverpool ?


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Is he in cambridge


 @coffeechap he's in the NW - Accrington

Guy who was selling the Conti Empress I linked you to


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Interesting guy, very knowledgable, had quite a few machines available, some on the pricey side, the guy in Cambridge is a little more interesting!


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Interesting guy, very knowledgable, had quite a few machines available, some on the pricey side, the guy in Cambridge is a little more interesting!


Do you have a link?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ATZ said:


> Do you have a link?


No just contact details


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> No just contact details


This is probably my favourite thing th3 guy in Accrington is selling. Not a lever, but stunning original Faema E61

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302886790268


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ATZ said:


> This is probably my favourite thing th3 guy in Accrington is selling. Not a lever, but stunning original Faema E61
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302886790268


That's definately got some 60's flair going on. Would need to be on an island to do it justice.


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