# Rocket Appartamento out of storage behaving strangely. Lots of pump noise and not getting hot



## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

About 6 months ago I gave up coffee (I know, strange right?!) and hence wasn't using the machine any more. I emptied the tank (and possibly allowed the water to flush out with the valves open can't remember) and cleaned the machine ready to not be used for a while.

I've started to drink a little coffee again now so yesterday I filled it up with water and switched it on. The pump started and didn't seem to stop, after a while I got worried and turned it off at the switch. I then did some googling and it says the pump might go for 2 mins when you first turn it on. So I turned it on again and this time waited. It pumped for a long time again then stopped but didn't get hot. I tried a 3rd time and this time it pumped for about a minute then stopped and started to get hot as expected. I made a couple of coffees during the day and it worked fine, then I turned it off for the night. Today I turned it on again and got the long pump noise for about 2 mins but it didn't get hot after. Only turning it off and on again (1min ish pump noise this time) is it now starting to get hot. In the past I seem to remember you might get about 2 or 3 seconds of pump noise when it first came on in the morning (on a timer so don't really remember cos I was usually asleep).

I can't remember there being any specific way to purge the pump of air or prime the boiler on this machine. Does anyone else know what could be happening? It certainly never used to do this before I gave it a 6 month break. Should I not have tried to empty the water out of it before storing it?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

You'll get the 2-3s of pump noise in the morning as the service boiler requests to be topped up. If it doesn't need, it won't ask.

It might be you have some air lock or the circuit is not fully primed. If you can get water through the group, draw 500ml of water at least through that to make sure it's nice and primed.

then, with the machine hot, turn it off and draw 500ml or so through the hot water tap. Turn the machine back on and let the boiler refill and prime that path.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks I'll try that now


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Sadly that didn't work.

I tried what you said. Let about 500ml through the group head because at that point the machine was hot and working. Then I turned it off and drained about 500ml out of the hot water wand. Turn the machine back on the it made the pump noise for about 2 mins then didn't do anything. Didn't start to get hot again.

I dug the manual out of the attic and it said on first use you should open the steam wand and turn it on, the pump will fill the boiler then stop when it's full, then you should just turn the steam wand off. I tried this too but it just made the pump noise for about 2 mins then stopped. It's on but not getting hot.

Any other ideas?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

chimpsinties said:


> It's on but not getting hot.


 What's the reading on the pressure gauge when the machine is "on" but not getting hot?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

chimpsinties said:


> I dug the manual out of the attic and it said on first use you should open the steam wand and turn it on, the pump will fill the boiler then stop when it's full, then you should just turn the steam wand off. I tried this too but it just made the pump noise for about 2 mins then stopped. It's on but not getting hot.
> 
> Any other ideas?


 It says that because Rocket are covering their arses if the machine shipped with an empty boiler. If the boiler doesn't fill for any reason, the water won't reach the autofill probe and the heating elements won't turn on. The autofill boxes on all machines are programmed like that, so they don't fry heating elements. Usually the pumps are programmed to stop after 2 minutes to avoid overheating and often require a power cycle of the machine before they will run again.

@MediumRoastSteamwants to know if your pressure gauge reads 8 or 9 bar when the pump is running, because that would show the autofill solenoid isn't working

P.S. If the boiler was filling but the probe was failing to detect anything, water would have probably come out the safety valve and if it does not have a tube attached leading to the drip tray or the tank...end up in a pool under the machine.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

When I turn the machine on and the pump whirs for 2 mins then stops the pressure gauge doesn't budge from zero.

It's so strange. Why would it not work then work yesterday, then not work, work again, then stop working again today? It's driving me bonkers.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> wants to know if your pressure gauge reads 8 or 9 bar when the pump is running, because that would show the autofill solenoid isn't working


 That would be good Dave, but I don't think the Appartamento has a brew gauge? My initial thought was to ascertain that the boiler is actually under pressure. If the gauge reads 1.0 bar or so, then we would know that the machine is actually "hot" - but the group is cold. 😉


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

chimpsinties said:


> When I turn the machine on and the pump whirs for 2 mins then stops the pressure gauge doesn't budge from zero.
> 
> It's so strange. Why would it not work then work yesterday, then not work, work again, then stop working again today? It's driving me bonkers.


 So:

- you turn the machine on;
- the pump goes for 2 minutes: Is that just after turning on? Without you lifting the lever? (i.e.: filling the service boiler?)
- If that's the case, is the drip tray getting full of water, coming out from the outlet at the centre of the machine, just above the drip tray? (That will tell us the boiler is overfilling as Dave said above).
- Can you confirm that the pressure gauge doesn't ever move from zero?

Let us know.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

chimpsinties said:


> When I turn the machine on and the pump whirs for 2 mins then stops the pressure gauge doesn't budge from zero.
> 
> It's so strange. Why would it not work then work yesterday, then not work, work again, then stop working again today? It's driving me bonkers.


 There could be lots of reasons....and you have to trace the steps in the chain back. Just so you get some concept of where you are in the process of working back to find the fault. Also to understand the reasons for all the questions we're asking. You have to be precise too, which pressure gauge exactly, do you have a portafilter gauge to measure brew pressure. red arrows show what we know, ones with question marks are educated best guesses. This isn't the whole flow but will cover a lot of it.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I'll try and explain again. The Appartamento has just one dial on the front and it shows boiler pressure I believe. Normally if you turn the machine on, the pump comes on for a couple of seconds then stops (obviously this is with the lever down). Then you can hear it starting to heat up. After 5-10 mins the pressure is at 1bar and the machine is hot to the touch. You can then get steam out of the steam wand, water out of the hot water wand, or lift up the lever and get hot water out of the brew head.

When I turn it on now (with lever down and no steam or water valve open):

-pump starts to whir for 2 mins

-pump stops

-guage still reads zero

-machine doesn't get hot. It will just sit like this with it's green light on all day.

-If I lift the lever nothing happens and no water will come out of the brew head. There is no water going either on the counter top or into the drip tray. The reservoir in the back is definitely about 3/4 full.

-If I turn it off at the switch and on again, the same happens.

Now the interesting thing is, both yesterday and today if I turned it off and on again, the same thing happened but it did actually start to get hot and I've been able to use the machine perfectly normally to make my coffee and steamed milk. That's why it's confusing me. Yesterday when it did it I put it down to the fact it'd been in storage and figured it was sorted now but when it did it again today I was more worried. I managed to make a brew with it but then when I tried @MediumRoastSteam's suggestion it happened again and now I don't see to be able to get it to get hot at all. It just keeps doing the long pump thing then eventually stops and stays cold.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

If the pump is running for two minutes continuously (not a good idea, you'll burn the pump), and the water level in the tank remains the same, it suggests to me water is not going anywhere. The fill sensor does not detect the boiler is full (it isn't), as water is not actually filling the boiler. So the pump just times out.

That suggests - to me - there's a blockage on the fill solenoid or on that path.

ls: So, as per Dave's diagram, check for blockages or kinked pipes. If that's not it, then it's an actual fault.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I've still got no joy on this. I came back to it today and tried a few times running it opening either steam or water valve but still no water. The pump runs for 2 mins then stops and it doesn't get hot.

I've been looking at various other videos online where people have airlocked pumps and they have a tube they can attach a syringe to and basically force water into the pump to get it to start taking water from the tank properly. I had the machine apart today and I think I might be able to try this (once I buy a big syringe). Looking at this diagram if I take the tube off the filter (12) and attach the syringe, I think I'll be able to force prime the pump, quickly turn the machine off, then reattach the proper hose and turn it back on. What do you think?


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Just in case you can see anything I'm missing here's the whole parts manual

Appartamento_Parts_Diagram.pdf


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think it's something dodgy with the boiler autofill, it's not filling the boiler and the pump is timing out, either by self resetting fusible link (you will see it on the side of the pump with a wire going in and out) or programming in the autofill box. This is based on the assumption that your saying when it doesn't work, it always pumps for the same length of time before stopping.

You can also try lifting the brew lever when it's pumping, before it times out. Water out of the group means pumps not airlocked, strong and not weaker than normal flow from the group, means the boilers not autofilling.

The other possibility is an intermittently faulty brew switch.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Yes the pump is running for 2 mins before it shuts off every time I start the machine.

Water comes out of the group head if I lift the lever during this time and it appears to be a normal flow.

How could I fix the issue with the boiler not autofilling? I tried contacting Rocket with no reply. I also tried a few national chains who offer servicing and they either didn't reply at all or said they didn't cover Rockets.

Can you describe a bit more about self resetting this link?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@chimpsinties If the flow is normal when you lift the lever one of 3 things is happening, in order of probability



Autofill solenoid failed, or blocked to boiler (most likely)


Brew switch faulty (causing pump to run)


Faulty autofill brain box.


You can diagnose 2 quickly enough. Unplug machine, disconnect heating elements, remove autofill probe lead and ground on boiler....switch machine on. If the pump doesn't run, it's *not* the brew switch. It additionally confirms the autofill probe is working correctly and most likely the problem is 1 above.

Once you have done the test post back with the results.

P.S. You disconnect the heating elements, in case the element is exposed and the machine thinking it's now got a full boiler, switches the heating elements on = poof!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Can you explain this as it's not very clear.



> remove autofill probe lead and ground on boiler


 Are you saying remove the probe lead and ground it against the boiler? Or remove both the probe lead and ground lead which are on the boiler?

Haven't we already established it's not the brew switch as water will come out of the brew head as expected when I lift up the lever.

I removed the probe lead, removed the power to the heating element and turned the machine on. The machine pump comes on for 2 mins, then turns itself off.

Here is a YouTube video of it happening


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

If I short out the red probe lead against the boiler itself, then the following happens.

The pump does not come on, if then remove the short from the boiler it does come on.

See video Youtube video of the probe lead being shorted against boiler


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> @chimpsinties If the flow is normal when you lift the lever one of 3 things is happening, in order of probability
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Ok it's not 2 or 3. Remove autofill probe, undo lock nut, mark depth it is in boiler... slide out clean tip. I don't think it's the problem as the boiler hasn't overfilled. Then check autofill solenoid is working and not blocked.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> Then check autofill solenoid is working and not blocked.


 Thanks for all your help so far. Any hints about how I might go about doing this? The solenoid is tucked away behind the brains and under the boiler. Quite difficult to get to if I'm supposed to take it out to check


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

chimpsinties said:


> Thanks for all your help so far. Any hints about how I might go about doing this? The solenoid is tucked away behind the brains and under the boiler. Quite difficult to get to if I'm supposed to take it out to check




See if you can get probes on the solenoid electrical connections and use a multimeter to check it's getting AC power


If it isn't then theres a problem with the wiring or possibly the autofill box


if it is, remove components until you can get to the solenoid


do a resistance test on the coil (if that looks OK) step 5


Dismantle and check inside the solenoid


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

OK, I got the probe out and cleaned it. When I put it back in, the same thing happened. 2min pump whirr, then nothing,









I've got the solenoid off. How can I check it? Do you know what the resistance should be and where to measure it? The coil was warm to to touch when I took it off, do you think that's normal?









Any idea how to get the actual solenoid off? Do I need to undo all the pipes?


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I got the solenoid itself out and it all seems free and moveable


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@chimpsinties resistance won't be infinite and it won't be zero shorted. It could have a value anything for 30 ohms to 100 ohms, just guessing

Check there's no blockages on the body.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Not sure where to measure it, they usually have a little circuit diagram on the side. That centre pin is probably an earth. You will figure it out. It will be something like this


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't think there's a blockage because while it was out I turned the machine on. The little inner bit popped out and water started to come out of the hole where it was inserted.

The resistance is 2370 ish


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@chimpsinties Solenoid is fine then, sadly only 1 component left.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

So it might mean I need a new brain box? I think they're about £100.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

chimpsinties said:


> So it might mean I need a new brain box? I think they're about £100.


 based on what you have done and the information provided and the assumption the solenoid wiring from brain to solenoid is all OK...yes. If theres something you failed to mention or didn't check correctly, possibly not.

One of the ultimate checks (and to possibly save £100) would be to see if the solenoid is getting power when it tries to autofill...if it is, then you need to go check your work.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Just for my own understanding, what should the solenoid be doing when I first turn the machine on? Should it activate and pull the plunger back? What does this allow? Is it water to flow into the boiler until it hits the fill probe which should stop it and allow he plunger to be pushed back in place by the spring thus stopping the flow to the boiler? I guess this then turns on the heater and stops the pump?

I'm just struggling to understand the flow in my mind right now.

What I have noticed is that the pump is drawing water from the tank the whole time and just spitting it back into the tank (I guess anyway, if I remove the tank I can see water being taken from the little well and spat back into it the whole time the pump is running for 2 mins).


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

The solenoid should open to allow water into the boiler. If it doesn't open, the pump will pressurise the brew circuit and vent out of the opv.

As Dave says, check that the solenoid coil is getting power - put the two probes on the two wires that connect to the solenoid coil, set multimeter to 600v ac, switch on machine and see if there is power registered on the meter while the pump is running.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@chimpsinties To clarify and support what Norvin is saying. The solenoid is NO (normally open) to the brew circuit...which by definition means when the solenoid gets no power, the brew circuit WILL pressurise.

Autofill of the boiler requires the solenoid to be energised...


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

There is 230v across the terminals of the solenoid when I turn the machine on. So the solenoid is energising as it should right?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@chimpsinties if the coils not open circuit, I believe it was 2200 ohms, so consuming 20W it should be working....in fact you would possibly hear it.

You need to recheck your work.

P.s. I did expect it to be lower, but it's well within the range of not being open or shorted.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I can hear it moving. If I leave the nut off the end of it and move it back and forth while its on I can definitely hear the click of the plunger inside moving as the magnet picks it up.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I just tried something else out of interest. I took the fill probe out and manually filled the boiler (so I was sure there was water in there). I then replaced the probe and shorted the connector against the boiler. This meant that the pump didn't start but the boiler started to heat up as it thought there was enough water in the boiler and didn't need to fill it up. It started to heat up as I could feel it getting hot, then after about a minute the pump came back on again and just stayed on similar to when it does it when I usually first turn it on. Argh!

If you listen here on this video I just made after putting it back together you can hear it engaging and releasing


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Could it possibly be the over heat switches on top of the boiler?

I was talking to the service engineers at Bella Barista and they suggested the switches could have tripped or be causing the problem. I just pressed them in with a screwdriver. On appeared to click a little bit but I couldn't really tell.

I turned machine on and it did it pump whirring for what seemed like 2 mins but might have been a tad shorter, anyway it's now heating up as expected. WTF?! Haha.

I'm going to let it heat up and then turn it off and on again to see if it works again or was just a fluke.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The over temp switches are just that. Normally they will be closed allowing power to the heating elements. In over temp situation they open ,cutting power to element (s).

Is the machine running correctly now ? If not what are the symptoms ?

@DavecUK has given you various items and methods to check and also suggested making a list and checking methodically. Work through your checklist ticking off items as you go.

Come back with any anomalies.

Was the photo of the fill probe before or after you cleaned it ?


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

As far as I can tell it's working now.

The element was before giving it a good scrub/scrape to make it clean.

It just heated up as expected. I can get water out of the brew head and hot water and steam out of their respective wands. I just turned it off waited a bit then on again and the pump didn't do it's 2min thing and I could hear the boiler heating up again.

I'll report back tomorrow after I've put all the sides and top back on and see if it works again.

I really appreciate everyone's help and I have diligently followed every instruction to the best of my ability.


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## Bigbrownbear (Oct 7, 2020)

So all good then??


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## moatl (10 mo ago)

It seems you solved the issue?
I just joined the forum - wish I would have joined and read your post earlier as I'm pretty certain what the actual issue is. I already serviced several Rockets and also Appartementos in the past and on of them had the exact same behavior. I checked pretty much everything on the machine but in the end, when I found the actual problem, it seemed so obvious. 
Directly where cold water is entering the boiler (not the heat exchanger) the copper pipe was clogged with scale preventing the water from getting through - or at least it only managed to get through extremely slowly.

So when the machine was turned on the autofill probe registered a low water level and told the machine to activate the pump. But since no water could get through the pump kept running and the machine remained cold (because the heating element will only be activated if there's enough water in the boiler)

I cleaned the clogged copper pipe and everything worked as expected again.

BTW the brewhead is fed by the heat-exchanger so it's completely independent from the water in the boiler.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

It turns out that was the exact problem. I didn't solve it myself. I sent the machine off to a guy from Doncaster who services machines. He actually does a really good job and he picked up and delivered the machine afterwards. It will be good if anyone else comes across this thread as hopefully they'll be able to fix the issue themselves. 

One of the other things he found was that the ceramic mushroom was also cracked so he replaced that with a stainless steel one.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

chimpsinties said:


> ...I sent the machine off to a guy from Doncaster who services machines. He actually does a really good job and he picked up and delivered the machine afterwards...


Excellent news  ...and the name of said guy is ??? ...Or his webpage if you have it; i'm sure some owners would love to see it or be able to contact/book him.


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## moatl (10 mo ago)

chimpsinties said:


> It turns out that was the exact problem. I didn't solve it myself. I sent the machine off to a guy from Doncaster who services machines. He actually does a really good job and he picked up and delivered the machine afterwards. It will be good if anyone else comes across this thread as hopefully they'll be able to fix the issue themselves.
> 
> One of the other things he found was that the ceramic mushroom was also cracked so he replaced that with a stainless steel one.


Great to hear it's working again.

I bet the ceramic mushroom cracked upon the attempt to remove it for cleaning/descaling. Not blaming the repair guy at all - these ceramic mushrooms tend to break soooo easily if there's only a little bit of scale involved.
Happened to me many times in the past! Using a stainless steel one is definitely a good choice


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Rincewind said:


> Excellent news  ...and the name of said guy is ??? ...Or his webpage if you have it; i'm sure some owners would love to see it or be able to contact/book him.


Sorry yes of course. I wasn't sure if I was going to be allowed to post it. 
He's called Steve Raven from Coffee Raven. Absolutely top bloke. 
https://www.coffeeraven.co.uk/


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