# Think I'm going crazy... shot weight, grams etc



## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi all,

New Gaggia Classic owner here, trying to learn as much as I can about the wonderful world of espresso.

So, at the moment I'm waiting for my Hario hand grinder to turn up, so in the mean time I've got some preground Lavazza Rossa stuff to experiment with.

What I've been doing, and what I used to do with my 1 cup moka pot, was to fill that (which I think is about 7g), and pour a full cup (my espresso cups hold about 70-90ml of liquid). Only now do I realise that's severely under dosing.

So this morning with my Gaggia I brewed 14g espresso and put my cup on the scales. I filled just over 2 ounces, about 70ml, and it weighed 77grams. From reading this forum it looks like 77g is waayyyyyyy too much. People are talking about 14g in and 28g out. 28g? That'd be a third of my tiny cup and gone in one sip. Is that true? I just can't seem to get my head around what the correct amount of liquid I should be pouring.

I timed it this morning by the way, and it took 13 seconds to fill the cup (70ml, 77g). I know that's much too quick, but it's preground so maybe that's it.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Welcome... We are all crazy round here, have to be to spend so much time making a simple cup of coffee!

Your right on the weights, although you can make any weight drink you like, its just how good it will taste!

If you after a longer drink, go the usual 28g out but add hot water to suit your taste (Americano)

When your grinder turns up ensure you buy fresh beans, and change your baskets if you have the standard pressurized ones.

Also think about upgrading your grinder, the hand grinder will work, but its gonna be a pain after a while!

Enjoy.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Whilst your using pre ground it's going to be very difficult to achieve the extractions you refer to ( particle size of coffee and it's not fresh = gushers you are getting ) .

When you are able to do weigh in and weigh out , then ignore how much volume it produces .

If the drink isn't " big enough" use more coffee , put more water through it, work to the same ratio.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Hey, the fun begins with a classic. Ratios are only somewhere to start from. I typically dose 18-19g for my classic and aim anywhere from 28-38g. Depends what tastes best. Moka pots produce a different drink that usually is better a bit longer. The ratios also won't mean anything until you get your grinder and can adjust. When you do, make sure you have the standard baskets and not the pressurised one. (And then never mention the L word again, it's a bad word round here, you wanna see what happened to te last guy who brought it up







! )


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

CrackDown said:


> So this morning with my Gaggia I brewed 14g espresso and put my cup on the scales. I filled just over 2 ounces, about 70ml, and it weighed 77grams. From reading this forum it looks like 77g is waayyyyyyy too much. People are talking about 14g in and 28g out. 28g? That'd be a third of my tiny cup and gone in one sip. Is that true? I just can't seem to get my head around what the correct amount of liquid I should be pouring.


Aim to get your shot completed between 25-30 secs with a ratio of 1:2 to begin with. With a dose of 14grms this gives 28grms out which isn't a lot. You can increase the output ratio - these are guidelines only and it all depends on your taste preference but it is a good idea to experiment with ratios 1:1.5 upwards. Obviously, the choice of coffee is key. With pre-ground packet coffee, you're not going to get the full potential of what you can experience with freshly roasted, freshly ground coffee.


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks everyone.

So if you're getting 28gs out, what does that equate to in ml?


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

CrackDown said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> So if you're getting 28gs out, what does that equate to in ml?


That depends on the amount of crema. Weight is generally considered a more reliable / consistent target to use for that reason.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

forget ml, get some little scales that read 0.01g and weigh output.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CrackDown said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> So if you're getting 28gs out, what does that equate to in ml?


It doesn't equate accurately...

Ignore volume as it will be a different amount depending on crema , bean type, when you measure it.

This is why you measure weight out as it is a more consistent way to measure as opposed to volume ( which for the above reasons isn't consistent ).

Help at all ?


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

Thanks. I guess I better wait until my grinder arrives and test it with the fresh stuff before I can figure it out.


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

My Hario grinder arrived yesterday. Wow, what a difference. It actually took longer than a minute to pour a cup this morning







I'm guessing I've got the grinder on too fine, because it took me over 3 minutes to grind just 14g. Maybe I tamped too hard too. Time to experiment.


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## muddy250 (May 21, 2014)

Now you're gonna go crazy with the options. ;-)


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## Bean junkie (Mar 2, 2013)

I've got a hario skerton and a coffee deluxe. After MUCH experimentation, what generally works is 16grams in and a very light tamp i.e just using the weight of the tamper and spin it around a few times. The skerton either grinds too fine or too course so it's a case of going fine and balancing that off with dose and tamp. I can generally get 28 grams out in about 30 secs. Bit more if the beans are very fresh.


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

I think I got it sussed after my Hario arrived. A few messed up espressos, of course, but I found that tightening the grind as much as I could, I made 8 clicks to the left and the grind was just about right, making a 20-25 second shot out of 14grams. I have a double, not sure what weight it is but a touch less than 60ml (minus the crema)


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

CrackDown said:


> I think I got it sussed after my Hario arrived. A few messed up espressos, of course, but I found that tightening the grind as much as I could, I made 8 clicks to the left and the grind was just about right, making a 20-25 second shot out of 14grams. I have a double, not sure what weight it is but a touch less than 60ml (minus the crema)


If you are getting 60ml not including crema then you are still way too coarse... including the crema you should probably be just below the 60ml mark depending on the type of bean you are using... try weighing the output, you should be aiming for no more than 30grams around 25secs as a starting point...


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd definitely try weigh the output (even if its just to get the bean dialled in to begin with).

It makes a massive difference, as does getting freshly roasted beans (not Lavazza).

60ml sounds a bit on the large side, but ultimately go with what taste good.


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

Okay thanks, will try weighing later on. The pouring from the portafilter looks good, with one side pouring steady, and the other dripping, every now and then turning into a pour but back to drips. I usually have half a teaspoon of sugar with my espressos, but I want to cut it out so this morning's was a different experience. Nice, but it might take some getting used to.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CrackDown said:


> Okay thanks, will try weighing later on. The pouring from the portafilter looks good, with one side pouring steady, and the other dripping, every now and then turning into a pour but back to drips. I usually have half a teaspoon of sugar with my espressos, but I want to cut it out so this morning's was a different experience. Nice, but it might take some getting used to.


Uneven pouring from two spouts would suggest

A- uneven distribution of coffee

B- uneven tamp

C- both A & B

The more even your extraction ( in your case with a spouted of coming out roughly the same both sides ) the tastier the drink

Or you could at some point get a naked portafilter and see what's really going on in there .

Plus one for weighing btw


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Uneven pouring from two spouts would suggest
> 
> A- uneven distribution of coffee
> 
> ...


D) uneven machine


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> D) uneven machine


Oh yeah







.....


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

Oh, I watched a video on youtube of some guy saying that to have it pouring out of one side and almost pouring out the other was perfect. Pfft, what did he know. I don't think i could get anymore of an even tamp without a spirit level









... wait, is there one of those you can buy?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You can check how level it is using the edge of the tamper and the basket as a guide


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CrackDown said:


> Oh, I watched a video on youtube of some guy saying that to have it pouring out of one side and almost pouring out the other was perfect. Pfft, what did he know. I don't think i could get anymore of an even tamp without a spirit level
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok the perhaps your evenly tamping an uneven distribution of coffee , or living in the ****** ****** house


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

uneven machine. Had me baffled for days!


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

I timed and weighed it this morning, and got 31grams out in about 18 seconds. I'll give my grinder one extra click to make it a bit finer and see what the timing is like tomorrow. The coffee does taste a bit nicer with less in the cup, especially without sugar, but it's such a small amount. Is 30 grams the same amount you'd get in a shop if you asked for a double espresso?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Depending on the shop, bean they were using etc you might get 25-35 grams. A double refers to the input, not the output


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

Made the grind finer by 1 click and it took 35 seconds to pour 31 grams. There was also a tiny bit of grinds in the bottom of the cup.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

And the taste?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

CrackDown said:


> Oh, I watched a video on youtube of some guy saying that to have it pouring out of one side and almost pouring out the other was perfect. Pfft, what did he know. I don't think i could get anymore of an even tamp without a spirit level
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Use your thumb and forefinger, put them on the edge of the tamper and feel the ridge of the basket, as you tamping give a little twist and you will feel if its off..


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## CrackDown (Jul 4, 2014)

A bit difficult to judge taste since I stopped taking sugar. Will need to sweeten one up to get the comparson, but it's very thick and almost chocolatey. Not bitter, really. (Rave's Signature) Think I preferred it with sugar, but it might take some time to adjust.

Thanks for the tips everyone.


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## neil.72 (Sep 13, 2014)

Just got my first set of scales that weighed down to 0.1g, so have just experienced exactly what CrackDown did. Thought I would wonder through a few post to see if I could find someone that had done the same, and here it is. Cant believe the difference. A lot less volume in my cup than what I am used to seeing. Must admit it did taste a lot nicer than what I normally get when judging by volume. Smoother and less sour. Lots to play with again. he he!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Focusing on extraction weight rather than volume can be a bit of an eye opener.


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## neil.72 (Sep 13, 2014)

Tell me about it. 15g dose giving a 30g shot in 28sec. This gave me just under 1oz of coffee. Tasted nice and silky though. More reading and experimentation needed I think. Any good articles that go into this in detail around? Cant imagine there wouldn't be as I guess everyone goes through this in the beginning. Thanks in anticipation.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

neil.72 said:


> Tell me about it. 15g dose giving a 30g shot in 28sec. This gave me just under 1oz of coffee. Tasted nice and silky though. More reading and experimentation needed I think. Any good articles that go into this in detail around? Cant imagine there wouldn't be as I guess everyone goes through this in the beginning. Thanks in anticipation.


Try this

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/free-espresso-training-book


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## neil.72 (Sep 13, 2014)

Thanks for the article mrboots. Interesting reading.


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