# Obvious Question but would appreciate advice



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Hello,

I really enjoy going to good cafes and enjoy decent coffee, properly made. I want to buy a coffee machine. I've read how the Rancilio Silvia is good and also the Gaggia Classic. I'm torn what to buy. One feature that will be important to me is the mild frother. I took a course in Taylor St Cafe so I learned how to do it properly so I want a machine that will allow me to achieve that.

Thanks


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Oh I also wanted to ask what experience people had with second hand coffee machines?


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Welcome to Coffee Forums UK

You may find this article useful

Its always a case of buyer beware with 2nd hand machines, but usually a descale and a clean is all that's required to get them running to the best of their abilities

Keep an eye on the classifieds section here as members are more likely to take care of their machines


----------



## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

The milk frother on the Silvia is very good and powerful. Its the reason I got my Silvia.


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi iamteds

This throws up a few questions:- how much you want to spend? how do you take your coffee etc?

Both of these machines are good "entry" points into espresso (both have their faults).

They are both single boiler units (single boiler/dual use - i.e. one boiler caters for both the espresso and milk)

This means you cannot do a milk and espresso shot simultaneously (less convenient, quality may suffer slightly).

Do you have milk in your coffee? (if you do, you are probably better off with an heat exchange or dual boiler machine)

something like this:- http://fracinoshop.com/fracino-piccino-black/

If you just make espresso, then this won't be an issue..

Because of the small boilers in these machines (Silvia's is a bit bigger) you will also need to learn heat cycling, and you will struggle to maintain consistent temperatures when pulling a shot (this is important for really great espresso).

Classic is £200ish

Silvia is £400ish

They are both great starting point, both loved and loathed equally (and you will learn a lot from these machines)

Final note - You really want to spend 50% of your budget on a good grinder (MC2/Rocky)

Grinder is the key!


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

That was a really helpful article, thank you for signposting me to it. Interesting what is said about the difference between the Gaggia and the Silvia and about the value too. I've read elsewhere that the frother in the Gaggia is only good for big bubble bath milk instead of nice velvety texture. That doe concern me quite a bit. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!! Realistically though I might have to go for the classic and go through all that process about replacing the wand, bit of a pain. Silvia might be out of my price range.


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Hi, sorry I saw this after I sent my last post. That is really informative, thanks. That Fracino machine looks amazing but out of my budget. I do take milk in my coffee though so I'll have to consider what you said about single boiler machines.


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

My advice -

Get a second hand classic off e-bay (less than £100)

Get a second hand MC2 Grinder (£80)

You will learn loads with these machines (and pull some lovely shots).

(changing the steam wand is a good idea, and its very easy)


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah, that fracino is great for the money..

I doubt you'd get another dual boiler setup any cheaper..and their british!


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

That would be the dream buy but also unrealistic for me I'm afraid. I'm having a look now at second hand Gaggia machines, I'll see if there's any bargain Silvias too. I got a grinder from Santa so that bit has been done for me.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

A Rancilio Silvia steam wand on a Classic can produce lovely milk - good enough to produce latte art in the right hands too


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yep, gaggia classics are cheap as chips second hand..and there are tons around

They are a cracking machine for the money.

Rancilio is a better machine, but they can be tricky (and they cost twice as much..)

Good luck with the purchase


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

You're making a very convincing point there. I'll try to see if there's any on sale with the Rancilio Silvia wand already on it!


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

I just ordered a classic for £170 delivered brand new, with 2 cups and 250g coffee and a silva wand for £15 (£5 shipping) with a tamper and milk jug so exc grinder £230 for everything I need to start...... Now like a kid on dec 23............. Hope to have it all for the weekend, courier willing!


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Sounds great. I was looking at new classics on amazon because I have a voucher there and would you believe the price has just gone up £10 in the last 5 minutes! I'm still considering going for it. An extra £15 for the wand sounds pretty good. You'll have to fill me in how it works out for you.


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Interestingly the place I ordered from put price up £10 day after I ordered...... Will update once I get it, never pulled a shot before so might be a bit hit and miss to start....


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

It might be worth me sitting on it for a while. I'll keep an eye on people selling their Gaggias on this forum too.


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

I bought a 2007 classic off Gumtree for £60quid.. £20 quid Silvia mod took 5 mins with a spanner,

The difference in steam power is massive. Shop for a bargain..or buy it new (still a bargain at £200)


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

There's one on Gumtree for £115 with a Rancilio wand attached...I'll see if they can be bargained down. What do you think?


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

If its been upgraded chances are looked after worth a call and chat esp if fairly local.....


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yeah, they're rock solid anyway..if its reasonably new/clean it'll be worth the money


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

iamteds said:


> There's one on Gumtree for £115 with a Rancilio wand attached...I'll see if they can be bargained down. What do you think?


Quiz them about usage and see if you can get a feel for how they treated the machine, descaled on a regular basis, what descaler etc. If they live in a hard water area.

You should also check out the Amazon warehouse 'used' Gaggia Classics, a couple of members here have had them and they have been brand new but with a damaged box or the like. Opened boxes that have been sent back under distance selling regulations. They come with a 3 month warranty from Amazon too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0000C72XS/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1357082985&sr=8-1&condition=used


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

I think it's about a year old. Only issue is it's not that close to me. Warehouse used; that's an option I hadn't considered before. I had a look. You can get one for £125. I do feel uneasy about it, there's no description of the product except that it's in good condition. Like I'd want to know why it was specifically discounted.


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

I did look at some other "graded" machines 90 day warranty rtb rather than 2 year but at half price a good deal, used you have no warranty at least parts are available I'm happy with my purchase at £170 brand new with a couple of extra bits


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Where did you purchase your gaggia by the way?


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

iamteds said:


> Where did you purchase your gaggia by the way?


http://www.hartsofstur.com/ should be with me tomorrow i hope. Currently drinking "good " instant and wishing it was here already....

Price has gone up £10 but was definitely £169.95 delivered on the 28th

http://www.hartsofstur.com/acatalog/Gaggia_Classic.html


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

looks like you'd get some nice pink mugs thrown in too! (and fudge??)


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Great find. I might go Amazon if I was buying a new one because I have a gift voucher from there., not sure if they offer a warranty though.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Here is the topic about the Amazon warehouse. I guess its a bit of a hope that you will get one in perfect condition, but I think I would sooner buy from here than used if the price difference was minor.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?8027-Amazon-used&highlight=amazon+warehouse


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

aphelion said:


> looks like you'd get some nice pink mugs thrown in too! (and fudge??)


Jealous much!

The Fudge I'll give away (not a fan tbh), the mugs well more red than pink

http://www.hartsofstur.com/acatalog/Le-Creuset-Cerise-Stoneware-Espresso-Mug-9100721006.html and £5 each, the free coffee will get me going


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Yep, i love that le creuset stuff too..very nice

Enjoy!


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Teds check this out http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?8180-Another-new-classic!


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

Hey thanks for the links everyone. I'm still split on where to get my machine but will let my brain process all the info. I have quite a few interests so its a big outlay on just one of them so ill have to take that into consideration.


----------



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Good luck mate, you won't be disappointed with a classic


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

iamteds said:


> Hey thanks for the links everyone. I'm still split on where to get my machine but will let my brain process all the info. I have quite a few interests so its a big outlay on just one of them so ill have to take that into consideration.


Your not the only one! My classic is here! So should have proper coffee by midnight lol.... well 9.30 pulled my first espresso got to say bit disappointed but never done it before and it was drinkable went for an ESE as i ordered some and no mess! will try ground at the weekend and if i can get some sleep will have a bash in the morning................


----------



## kklam (Jan 4, 2013)

Which brand of ESE did you try?


----------



## suferick (Jul 19, 2011)

Are they still shipping new Classics with pressurised filter baskets? If so, and you have a decent grinder, you will get better results with replacement non-pressurised ones.


----------



## iamteds (Aug 16, 2011)

HDAV said:


> Your not the only one! My classic is here! So should have proper coffee by midnight lol.... well 9.30 pulled my first espresso got to say bit disappointed but never done it before and it was drinkable went for an ESE as i ordered some and no mess! will try ground at the weekend and if i can get some sleep will have a bash in the morning................


Sounds like you've got a project on your hands there. Will be worth it when you get it just how you want it! Been in Cork city the last few days. Some nice little coffee places there


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

kklam said:


> Which brand of ESE did you try?


got a few to try from http://www.ukcoffeepods.org/ Some Caffe Bravi 100% Arabica, Caffe Moreno 100% Arabica, Caffe Karoma 100% Arabica and Caffe Giusto 100% Arabica



suferick said:


> Are they still shipping new Classics with pressurised filter baskets? If so, and you have a decent grinder, you will get better results with replacement non-pressurised ones.


How does one tell? its the 2 part bit with basket that removes and has a valve underneath...........

Is that none pressurised for all types or for ESE? I thought the pressurised bit gave the creamy brown top although i made one this mornign it was quite good, made one when i got home.......none at all..........


----------



## suferick (Jul 19, 2011)

I've never used one myself, but reportedly the pressurised baskets have just one hole in the underside, and a little plastic insert. The idea is that anyone should be able to produce the creamy top, known as crema, with any grind of coffee. Once you start using the non-pressurised baskets, with many holes at the bottom, you will need to grind the coffee quite fine to get decent results.


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Yes its pressurised and crema does occur, it varies with the brew still need to figure out the brew time will play with some actual ground tomorrow rather than just ESE


----------



## Shakey (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm selling my Gaggia Classic and would agree with above, its been a great machine to learn from giving great pleasure.


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Well the ground that came with the classic is quite nice


----------

