# DTP Died?



## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

So, going to make my normal afternoon coffee, after the shot is done and milk is steamed I go to flush the group... No water comes out, sounds like steam coming out of the group and after the pre infusion phase has passed a direct stream comes out the shower head on the right hand side. Descaled with provided descaler and bf'd with cleaning tab and the problem is still there, the machine is now being collected for repair tomorrow and should be back with me Thursday, or replaced or refunded. If it's to be refunded I think ill buy a classic with a PID already configured if there's one about. Really enjoyed my time with this machine and hope it'll be returned back in working order.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Id never buy any coffee machine again....


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Get a stovetop/moka pot


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Id never buy any coffee machine again....


Think I'll be using my aeropress til it's repaired so that may grow on me enough to just drink brewed.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

It's a matter of personal choice, but it seems a little drastic to say that you'll never buy another Sage machine again. I'll be interested to hear what was wrong with it. Wasn't this bought second-hand?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

filthynines said:


> It's a matter of personal choice, but it seems a little drastic to say that you'll never buy another Sage machine again. I'll be interested to hear what was wrong with it. Wasn't this bought second-hand?


Perhaps I have been a little harsh with all the caffeine withdrawal anger and that. But perhaps I should've heeded the warnings and only bought Sage if I was happy to send it back every couple of months, which I am not. Oh well, atleast I can put it down as experience now.

It was 'manufacture refurbed' (however the hell that's so, perhaps Sage refurb and sell through xsitems?) and the collection is booked in for Thursday so I can expect the machine back around Tuesday the following week. If it cant be repaired i'll be getting a replacement or refund, which (if it is replaced) will likely be sold on here and replaced with a classic or la pav.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

if the bloke from Sage looks like this, make sure you get a receipt


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There are people facing alot worse in the world than a lack of espresso.....


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Could be as much a problem with second-hand purchases as with Sage itself. I'm more than 12 months on and still going strong - very happy with my machine. Granted, I have had to send my grinder back before now.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Bloody hell thats not good. I've messed about loads with mine and it's still cracking on as normal. Might just be a Friday afternoon machine.

When I worked for JCB we would occasionally get one of those diggers from the factory that always needed fixing. Doesn't mean they are all bad


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Oh well, I always felt as if I was walking on eggshells with sage machines since most have problems with theirs. I just hope the repair can last me until my next upgrade. The Sage are brilliant little machines and can produce some quality drinks, just a heart break when they go.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> There are people facing alot worse in the world than a lack of espresso.....


Oh I certainly don't doubt it boots!


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

Its not dead.... its resting


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

DaveP said:


> Its not dead.... its resting


I certainly hope it wakes up soon!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Maybe a stupid question but there was still water in the tank wasn't there?


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

I'm real interested in the "Most people have problems with theirs " bit. I know there have been a few problems with other, more complicated Sage machines, but I can't recall a single post of a DTP being broken like this. Have I missed something?

I'm also pretty impressed that your machine is going to be fixed or replaced for free in a week. What more could you want?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jimbocz said:


> I'm real interested in the "Most people have problems with theirs " bit. I know there have been a few problems with other, more complicated Sage machines, but I can't recall a single post of a DTP being broken like this. Have I missed something?
> 
> I'm also pretty impressed that your machine is going to be fixed or replaced for free in a week. What more could you want?


There will be hundreds of people who have sage machines that never come near this forum. So we have no real idea of failure rate or their experience. Plus we never really know whats really down to user error etc.

Its easy to bash sage but I suspect there are a lot more people making coffee a tub home as a result of their machines Being on the market.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

The general warning I received from many members of the forum before I recieved my machine was, if you buy a Sage you will get the benefit of the complicated technology they have inside (maybe not the dtp so much) but it's just all the more to go wrong. That's why I purchased from somewhere that had a warranty. @jimbocz I understand the service is excellent with the machine being sorted so fast, but the matter of the fact is I don't want to have to send my machine back 3 months after owning it!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rakesh said:


> The general warning I received from many members of the forum before I recieved my machine was, if you buy a Sage you will get the benefit of the complicated technology they have inside (maybe not the dtp so much) but it's just all the more to go wrong. That's why I purchased from somewhere that had a warranty. @jimbocz I understand the service is excellent with the machine being sorted so fast, but the matter of the fact is I don't want to have to send my machine back 3 months after owning it!


I presume you apply this logic to the cars you buy, the TV you watch, etc etc.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I presume you apply this logic to the cars you buy, the TV you watch, etc etc.


Well if I had to send a car or TV back after 3 months I wouldn't be the happiest person in the world. I'm not going after all Sage products and slating them all, but other machines run for years before they encounter any sort of problem, the matter of the fact is even after a quick search of the forum the general trend is quite a few sage owners do have to send back their machine not long after owning them, the machines are very capable of producing quality espresso and I'm not saying they aren't I'm just expressing the fact I am dissapointed I have had to return my machine so soon, wouldn't you be?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I had to repair and tinker with both my more traditional machines I owned in the past.

I had to as there were not repair centres or the shipping along would have broken the bank.

Yours will either be fixed or not. Why not post after you have had the chance to see if the service delivers or not.

I didn't feel the need to disown the manufacturer or flame as never buying again before we fixed it, as between us we sorted it in the end.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I had to repair and tinker with both my more traditional machines I owned in the past.
> 
> I had to as there were not repair centres or the shipping along would have broken the bank.
> 
> ...


You make a good point, perhaps I have been too quick to make a judgement. I will report back when the machine is all sorted. I should probably point out this machine is not being repaired by sage either (to my knowledge) it is a company called xsitems. They managed to arrange a collection almost instantly so i am impressed with their service.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rakesh said:


> You make a good point, perhaps I have been too quick to make a judgement. I will report back when the machine is all sorted. I should probably point out this machine is not being repaired by sage either (to my knowledge) it is a company called xsitems. They managed to arrange a collection almost instantly so i am impressed with their service.


I hope you get it sorted or a machine you are happy with in the end. You got your v60 which is capable of very tasty brews, so enjoy that.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I hope you get it sorted or a machine you are happy with in the end. You got your v60 which is capable of very tasty brews, so enjoy that.


If stranded on a desert island blah blah...only allowed one brew method....Kalita would be my choice. What would yours be? Rakesh?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I hope you get it sorted or a machine you are happy with in the end. You got your v60 which is capable of very tasty brews, so enjoy that.


Thank you, I look forward to using my v60 and will no doubt be asking you for advice on it when I get brewing.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

fatboyslim said:


> If stranded on a desert island blah blah...only allowed one brew method....Kalita would be my choice. What would yours be? Rakesh?


I really enjoy espresso, but I also really enjoy long steep aeropresses so i'd probably say my aeropress. I have just bought a v60 and am expecting a better brew than aeropress without having to do a 50+min steep, I have yet to try alternative pour overs but I will definitely try to get to them all.

What makes you say Kalita over V60?


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## MikeBookham (Sep 3, 2016)

Rakesh said:


> I really enjoy espresso, but I also really enjoy long steep aeropresses so i'd probably say my aeropress. I have just bought a v60 and am expecting a better brew than aeropress without having to do a 50+min steep, I have yet to try alternative pour overs but I will definitely try to get to them all.
> 
> What makes you say Kalita over V60?


Have I misunderstood you or did you really mean to say that you do a 50+ minute steep when using your Aeropress?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

MikeBookham said:


> Have I misunderstood you or did you really mean to say that you do a 50+ minute steep when using your Aeropress?


Yes, long steeps work wonders in an aeropress.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Rakesh said:


> Yes, long steeps work wonders in an aeropress.


Do you just drink it at the temperature it's settled at or reheat somehow?

I'm debating on getting and aeropress.

Sorry to go off topic lol.

Any word from sage on the repair/replacement?


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

Rakesh said:


> I think ill buy a classic with a PID already configured if there's one about. Really enjoyed my time with this machine and hope it'll be returned back in working order.


I've always had the impression that a classic with a PID is fairly likely to go wrong itself and all the fun of having something like that is messing around and fixing it yourself. All the PID threads I see are heavy on wiring diagrams. I certainly would buy one if I wanted my new hobby to be modding and fixing my coffee machine, but that doesn't seem like what you want. Who are you gonna call when it breaks?

PID lovers, do I have this all wrong? Is it reasonable to expect a classic with a PID fitted to act like a consumer machine?


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

> Is it reasonable to expect a classic with a PID fitted to act like a consumer machine


A classic is a consumer machine, and a very good one at that.

Add a pid and a better steam arm / wand and it becomes an even better consumer machine, the pid cures the standard machines issue of fluctuating temperature regulation.

Adding a pid kit (or sourcing the bits and working it out ones self) does not affect the 'general reliability' .. but knowledge is power, so if it goes wrong then you have to call your self or ask for assistance on the forum.

If your not techie and have no interest in learning new skills, then any modification is not for you.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Do you just drink it at the temperature it's settled at or reheat somehow?
> 
> I'm debating on getting and aeropress.
> 
> ...


Yeah I drink it at that temp since coffees seem to taste sweeter when cooler, if the temp is too cool for you then there's always the microwave.

The company I purchased it from is due to collect the machine tomorrow, it's not sage who are replacing it, it's xsitems so when they have the machine I'll be sure to let you know what happens.


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## mcrmfc (Sep 17, 2016)

DaveP said:


> A classic is a consumer machine, and a very good one at that.
> 
> Add a pid and a better steam arm / wand and it becomes an even better consumer machine, the pid cures the standard machines issue of fluctuating temperature regulation.
> 
> ...


Not sure whether the poster meant "prosumer", if so I don't think just adding a PID solves that.

It cerainly improves one variable in the espresso equation...but the boiler is so small, to get to that level you will want to look at intrashot temp stability (via some kind of preheat) and pressure profiling.

Of course none of this will solve the single boiler milk frothing issue but that's a given.

As @DaveP suggests the level of reliability will depend on how well you fit the kit and the quality of those components e.g. cheap SSRs (generally the only ones that are affordable) from eBay can fail fairly easily.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

UPDATE:

The company I purchased the machine from has received the machine and have told me that they are unable to repair the faulty machine and have no replacements so a refund will be issued. Quite disappointed as I was looking forward to getting my machine back, however at least I now have a chance to try a different machine........ PID'd classic?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Plenty on the market. It's a shame you couldn't get sorted out with your old machine. What did they say was wrong with it?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Plenty on the market. It's a shame you couldn't get sorted out with your old machine. What did they say was wrong with it?


This item has been assessed by our engineers and I can confirm that the item is faulty. Unfortunately we were unable to rectify the fault and do not have a replacement to send out to you. However we have issued you with your refund and we do apologise for any inconvenience this matter has caused you.

That was all that I got, I would've preferred more detail but oh well, I think the PID died as the temps just didnt seem right, steam out the group head and steam out the wand when hot water selected.


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