# Sage grinders - are they really that bad?



## Benjijames28

I read every where that sage grinders are terrible. Whether your talking built in grinders or stand alone smart grinders.

When I owned by barista express i had no issues with my grinder. When using fresh beans and a scale to make sure I'm using the right weight i always got the shots within the espresso scale on the pressure gauge. As for taste and consistency, i never got that far, but it defo seemed possible to get a good shot from the machine.

I'm only asking about these grinders because people suggest stand alone not built in, but space and cost may be an issue.


----------



## itguy

I can give my opinion here.

I had a Sage Barista Express for over 2 years and learnt the basics of pulling espresso on it. I found the grinder ok but my inconsistency in the cup really came from the brew temperature fluctuations. I found the machine really needed to be on for 20 mins or so then 3 or 4 empty shots pulled before the actual espresso pull for it to be at the right temp. You could kind of mask this with some funky grind settings / heavy tamp etc etc but it was just masking the problem.

I moved on to a Izzo Alex 2 HX E61 machine without grinder so needed to buy one.

I started off with a 64mm flat burr Simonelli MDX second hand - it is a doser (the one for sale on here) and it made nice coffee, if a bit big/messy/time consuming for home use. Good full bodied shots with rounded flavour. The burr size is the same as the lauded Mazzer Super Jolly. Cleaning the chute with a paint brush on every shot and single dosing the beans into the grinder all fine but time consuming.

I didn't want to keep it though as it was taking up too much space and I wanted a doserless / on-demand grinder for ease - I make most coffee at 5:30 am before I go to work!!

So - I bought a very lightly used second hand Sage Smart Grinder Pro (with the screen on). I've been using this for 2 or so weeks now and have found it very good.

It doesn't feel like the final solution to me (Compak E5 / Eureka Atom or dreamland, Ceado E37S) - however...

Pros and cons of the Smart Grinder Pro (in my experience);

Pros

Small size

Good grind / flavour (not very good or excellent, but good)

Consistent timer / grind weight within +/- 0.3 or 0.4g

Easy adjustment with 60 standard adjustments, plus burr adjustment if finer is needed

Easy grind size reference point with the numbers

Very low mess / grind overspill (i'm using a 58mm portafilter and haven't tried it with a 53mm)

Easy to clean

Nice hopper with rubber seal on lid

Quite quiet

Cons

Grinds can be a bit clumpy and will need distributing before tamp

Slow grinding - 17 or 18 seconds for a 18g shot

Motor sounds underpowered - but hasn't stalled or stopped yet, maybe just how it is?

Does retain some old grinds (like all on demands) - so need to purge 4-5 seconds and dump before actual grind

Taste is 'good' - not excellent

I paid £100 for mine - others have paid similar and to be honest - for £100 it's really quite good and worth a punt in my view.

I'll use this for a while until I can justify / appreciate one of the aforementioned grinders which are just on another level completely.

Hope this helps


----------



## Xpenno

What itguy said. It's a £200 grinder that punches well above it's weight. It can be had for £100 secondhand which makes it a steel.

There are always better grinders (build quality and in cup) but it's good enough to make tasty espresso.


----------



## Benjijames28

Thanks for the responses guys.

It's really complicated this home coffee business. I thought temp control was a big advantage of the sage machines.

On paper the barista express is the right machine for my needs when it comes to space, features and pricing.


----------



## itguy

I really liked my Barista Express - it has a few quirks but when you get to know it it's a good machine.

I believe the grinder in the Barista Express is basically the same as the Smart Grinder Pro (ie same conical burrs / size etc).

I only changed away from my Barista Express because I wanted more steam power (2 and 4 hole tips) and a 58mm portafilter to start using naked portafilter handles etc - plus the temperature stability from the E61 brew head.


----------



## Benjijames28

itguy said:


> I really liked my Barista Express - it has a few quirks but when you get to know it it's a good machine.
> 
> I believe the grinder in the Barista Express is basically the same as the Smart Grinder Pro (ie same conical burrs / size etc).
> 
> I only changed away from my Barista Express because I wanted more steam power (2 and 4 hole tips) and a 58mm portafilter to start using naked portafilter handles etc - plus the temperature stability from the E61 brew head.


So your saying the temperature stability of the b express is not very good?


----------



## itguy

It is once it is fully warmed up and the portafiler has been warmed up too.

Because the sage stuff is electronic you cannot fit a timer switch to turn it on 20 or 30 mins before you get up. With an e61 machine you generally can. The sage oracle and dual boiler have built in timers though.


----------



## tdfg7583

I'm a real fan of the integrated grinder in the Barista Express. Admittedly, I don't own any really high-end alternatives (I've only had the more 'affordable' - but hopefully decent - options like Feldgrinds, a Kinu M47 and a Mahlkonig Vario so far) but I keep coming back to the Sage grinder as my starting point for ratios and temperatures to try a new coffee variety. I find it's more than capable of teasing out all of the <gs id="b107d922-3f10-49f1-a905-daa13e737b83" ginger_software_uiphraseguid="3011a01e-2cf7-4f9c-8638-1bd4d64c509c" class="GINGER_SOFTWARE_mark">flavour</gs> notes from a single-origin coffee, with better separation of <gs id="c064be8e-16b1-4705-a684-b9393f9d4417" ginger_software_uiphraseguid="3011a01e-2cf7-4f9c-8638-1bd4d64c509c" class="GINGER_SOFTWARE_mark">flavours</gs> in the cup than some others I've tried. I might add more grinders to the collection over time, but I definitely won't be parting with the Sage.


----------



## Dylan

Where are you reading that they are terrible?

Bare in mind a lot of coffee forums will be comparing them to grinders many times their price.

When compared to other grinders in their price bracket they are pretty regularly considered the best of the bunch.


----------



## 4085

They are the best of a bunch at that price. But when people come on and talk about buying a machine costing several hundred pounds and then buying the Sage grinder they are told they could do better. Having had 2, I am well placed to day they are terrible when compared to other grinders, but, if you want to make mediocre coffee then buy one


----------



## Dylan

mediocre being a relative term.

If your used to Nescafe then you will be making incredible coffee with a Sage grinder. If your used to much more expensive equipment then the sage will make you mediocre coffee.


----------



## 4085

Dylan said:


> mediocre being a relative term.
> 
> If your used to Nescafe then you will be making incredible coffee with a Sage grinder. If your used to much more expensive equipment then the sage will make you mediocre coffee.


Haway man Dylan, how many people on this forum aim to make mediocre coffee i.e. on purpose.....if you want to compare Nescafe to anything ground thats up to you.....I was comparing the Sage to other grinders available and you know that, so stop splitting hairs as usual


----------



## Dylan

People on this forum tend to make the best coffee they can with the equipment they can afford. What is mediocre to you is not to others.

You can compare a Punto to a Pagani if you like, it doesn't make it a sensible thing to do.


----------



## 4085

if you buy a Sage grinder when you have the option of not buying a Sage grinder i.e. it is not free with the machine, then you are going to make mediocre coffee unless you have a special interpretation of the word all for yourself. Replace the word Sage with MC2. Not being arsey, as if a £200 grinder ignoring buying used is as far as you can go, then the Sage is as good as you can get, but there is no point in imagining it makes decent coffee when compared to anything above its own class


----------



## Hibbsy

I got my smart grinder pro for £100. With a 3 year warranty from john lewis in January sales. I'm happy with the grinders results with my current set up, especially at that price.


----------



## Stanic

tdfg7583 said:


> only had the more 'affordable' - but hopefully decent - options like Feldgrinds, a Kinu M47


Very decent options IMO


----------



## Benjijames28

Well i got my barista express with the built in sage grinder. I will use it for now and enjoy my coffee, maybe one day i will invest in a better grinder.


----------



## 4085

Benjijames28 said:
 

> Well i got my barista express with the built in sage grinder. I will use it for now and enjoy my coffee, maybe one day i will invest in a better grinder.


Congratulations, enjoyment is the main thing!


----------



## Dylan

Edited.


----------



## tdfg7583

Benjijames28 said:


> Well i got my barista express with the built in sage grinder. I will use it for now and enjoy my coffee, maybe one day i will invest in a better grinder.


It's more than capable of making very good coffee. I think you'll enjoy it


----------



## itguy

Ditto that - I loved mine, a great introduction and learning platform


----------



## FerrersWay

Is there a difference in grind quality between the Smart Pro and the one built into the Barista Express? Thinking of the Smart Pro for Aeropress use until I can afford an espresso machine


----------



## itguy

I think the burrs are identical


----------



## SPW

Benjijames28 said:


> I read every where that sage grinders are terrible. Whether your talking built in grinders or stand alone smart grinders.
> 
> When I owned by barista express i had no issues with my grinder. When using fresh beans and a scale to make sure I'm using the right weight i always got the shots within the espresso scale on the pressure gauge. As for taste and consistency, i never got that far, but it defo seemed possible to get a good shot from the machine.
> 
> I'm only asking about these grinders because people suggest stand alone not built in, but space and cost may be an issue.


ive used a sage barista too - and found the built in grinder very easy to use. Yes, there's sometimes clumping, but the system allows you to 'dial in' a pretty good espresso within 2-3 attempts. My experience of using grinders that cost as much or even 2-3x the whole sage barista (Mazzer, simonelli, mahlkonig) is that these are often huge beasts of machines, incredibly fast and with far greater control but with that comes 'wasting' more coffee as you take maybe 3-5x to dial it in.

For or me the 'problem' with the barista is much more the small portafilter - which means your pulling shots of much closer to 14g than the modern speciality standard of 17-20g. Now there's a topic....


----------



## shodjoe1

dfk41 said:


> They are the best of a bunch at that price. But when people come on and talk about buying a machine costing several hundred pounds and then buying the Sage grinder they are told they could do better. Having had 2, I am well placed to day they are terrible when compared to other grinders, but, if you want to make mediocre coffee then buy one


 Compared with specialita Eureka side by side,I prefer sage.New version is just great,I tried also friends niche ,difference is there but only a bit but the price tag ...


----------



## dutchy101

I got the Sage SGP in June for £200. My first grinder in my first set up but I'm really enjoying the coffee I'm getting out of it - don't drink espresso but cappuccino is lovely. Think it's the perfect entry level grinder to be honest


----------

