# Grinder options <£1500-ish, and how to compare them?



## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

So I realise that "Grinder options

Having recently replaced my Gaggia Classic with a Fracino Ariete, it's the Kitchen-aid grinder's turn to do the walk of shame.

I feel compelled to stick up for it now, as it's not as bad as you think. In stock form it's distinctly mediocre, however with Mazzer burrs and a stepless mod it's passable for espresso, even "decent", relatively speaking. But that was with a Classic, and it's now clearly the weakest link, more so than I am, and that's saying something. Moving swiftly on.

In the ideal world I'd have something that's minimal faff for single dosing, but I'm not sure that's something that's really doable within my budget (looking squarely at the M3) or lacks the required level of WAF (EK43 has already been vetoed).

So that means on-demand grinders and having to think a little bit more about chopping and changing between beans, but I'm fine with that.

I've got the Zenith 65E and Compak E8 and E10 on my shortlist at the moment as once BB have the Compaks in store I'll actually be able to sample them side by side and compare what I think of good/better/best. Being able to try before I buy is fairly important to me since I have zero experience of grinders of this calibre and would like this to be the last grinder I buy, certainly for up to 10 years.

Am I doing myself a disservice selecting from those three and leaving out, for instance, the K30? Any other suggestions?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

That's a big budget to spend on a grinder so finding a decent one is not going to be difficult,I think you have sort of answered your question by saying you going to visit BB and try out the new compaks.

i have had a little go on the k30 and have to say I would be quite happy with one of them sitting on my bench , as I am sure many owners can vouch for


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

I suppose I have answered my own question a little bit, but hearing others tell me that always helps!

The lingering doubt I have, say if I visited BB (or anywhere else) and tested any generic £500 grinder, £1000 grinder and £1500 grinder that there are two likely outcomes:

A) Decide that there's not nearly enough in it to justify 2-3x the outlay over the £500 grinder and go with that.

B) Be amazed at what £1500 gets me over the other price points and go with that

That's all well and good, but relies on the grinders on test being reference status within their own price point. I could be pretty upset if I chose option A and and got on with my life, and some time in the future sampled a K30 and realised that the E10 misrepresented just what £1500 could have got me, if that makes sense.

The challenge being, there's clearly no one place where I can sample all the goods back to back to back.

With reference to the K30, what's sitting on your bench now and how would you say the K30 compares within the grinder landscape?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

you could contact foundry

take up your fracino to them and try out a e8 and e10


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is all personal. I have had a couple of k30's and think they are crap, where others will disagree. The Compak E series is bang up to date design and technology wise. The 8 Is flat burr and the 10 conical. I prefer the 10 and that is what I own


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

Already ahead of you, as one of the wants is also shiny chrome so wanted to check price/availability of the Compaks (but I left the chrome bit out for now, if the "right" grinder is only available in black I'll get over it), though I hadn't considered taking my own machine up there, not a bad shout.

Doesn't look like they do a lower priced "sanity check" grinder though, which made me a little uneasy.



dfk41 said:


> It is all personal. I have had a couple of k30's and think they are crap, where others will disagree. The Compak E series is bang up to date design and technology wise. The 8 Is flat burr and the 10 conical. I prefer the 10 and that is what I own


Now that's definitely interesting, thanks for the feedback.

The grinder hunt so far has reminded me a lot of hifi shopping. No such thing as right and wrong, one man's trash etc. I don't doubt there's a healthy dose of the placebo effect at work sometimes well. I normally relish a bit of obsessive research, but I'm finding this one tricky.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Based purely on what i've read on the internets, and if it was expresso only, i'd get one of the Compaks (or this (on a credit card for protection) and see if coffee italia come through with the goods http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=mythos_One_Clima_Pro_Grinder)


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

I want to grind coffee, not serve ice cream!









In all seriousness though, if the EK didn't pass the WAF test I don't hold high hopes for the Mythos/One.

Good to hear another vote for Compak though, cheers.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mythos One is surprisingly compact in the flesh


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't be led by other people's thoughts. Why have a grinder cos person a says it is good. A grinder grinds what you are going to drink. It is therefore vital that you like that. So, if I think you should have an E10 and you do not like the flavour profile on a bean you know, then you ain't gonna buy it!


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

Whilst I don't entirely disagree, it's also not practical to sample every grinder the world has to offer, much less sample every one on the same day, back to back. If nothing else, recommendations limit just how long the shortlist is and make it once again practical to actually do some trying out.

Don't forget I don't have the benefit of having tried dozens upon dozens of grinders in the past, and that I possibly don't even realise what a coffee "should" taste like. I'm nigh on positive whether it's a 65E or an E10 or some £7500 science project of a grinder it's going to be a revelation in comparison to what I've got now, so sampling one in isolation and deciding that I like it isn't of great value either.

My only hope is to down-select to a few based on recommendations, try them out and compare the difference.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

This is interesting as you are getting advice not to buy what other people think yet there are a few thoughts above. if you can make it down my way, I have an e10 an e8, mazzer mayor on bemand, macap mxd, nino and a k30 that you could try out side by side, I don't have the eureka, but all of these are better than the zenith!

hands on is a good idea as is using them with your own equipment, I do not entirely agree that the k30 is crap, it has burrs made by ditting which are superb, it is also pretty user friendly. The Compaks are really lovely to use and have a fab grind consistency. my personal thoughts on your situation is to look at the e8 or other similarly burred grinder, so 75-83mm flat. the conics compliment levers, but in my experience the good flat burr grinders compliment pump driven hx machines very well.


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

That's mighty decent of you, and quite the spread on offer - I might have to take you up on that, I'm often in the area-ish.

I keep meaning to drop a post in your Torr thread, so could kill two birds. And once they're dead, drink some coffee.

I keep reading that Levers love a good conical, but less so that pump machines preferred a flat all else being equal, that's why I had both the E10 and the E8 on the hit list, though.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

The compaks do seem to be the grinders of the moment and are championed by many , do be honest if I was in your position they would be the first grinders I would look at , the choice would only be between flat burrs or conical . After having shots from Callum's robur at the Titan grind off and personally would have picked that grinder over all the others I personally decided at the moment, a conical suits this stage in my own personal journey and for what I have in mind for the future.

i have managed to get my hands on a konY E which I am really pleased with i personally like the build of mazzers grinders as IMO they are bulletproof . The Kony comes with its pros and cons distribution isn't the best and retention can be a little disheartening with 20% wastage on average ,( in the cup is amazing !!!!)

if as I am sure the new compak addresses some of these issues, which apparently it does ,then If I was your finaclal position I wouldnt hesitate on pulling the trigger .

On another note a notable grinder is the HG one all I can say about what I have seen is WOW !but it comes down to if you want to work for your coffee, if you do this grinder will reward you again and again .


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

Thecatlinux said:


> distribution isn't the best and retention can be a little disheartening with 20% wastage on average


When I started the proceedings with this round of upgrades I started with Mazzer (simply because when I was skint at university I used to dream of a day I could own a Mini, go figure) and the retention put me off. That and it kind of seems like they swapped the doser for a funnel on the E models and charge £250 for the privilege, which make me feel like they're either lazy or jerks, and either way don't deserve my money











> On another note a notable grinder is the HG one all I can say about what I have seen is WOW !but it comes down to if you want to work for your coffee, if you do this grinder will reward you again and again .


Yes, the elephant in the room. My parents live in the US as well, and I'm either there or they're here at least a few times a year, which makes it even more compelling.

I've ummed and ahhed about it before though, and I feel like as compelling as it may be, especially for the price, I just can't get on with the idea of a manual grinder as a daily driver. I even kind of like with the "connection" to the process it gives you, and I get to grips with it in my head, but then I see the user experience videos on youtube again for the HG one and any OD grinder side by side and it's back in the "no" pile. And I can't even start to think of the pain it could be when making coffees for 6.


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

Okay, so a certain group buy has got me thinking.

If we assume equal costs for both, anyone able to offer opinions of the Compak E8 and Ceado E37S side by side?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mister_Tad said:


> Okay, so a certain group buy has got me thinking.
> 
> If we assume equal costs for both, anyone able to offer opinions of the Compak E8 and Ceado E37S side by side?


As far as i am aware i dont think anyone has one side by side ( unless dave has both )

So your gonna have to listen to people who have one or the other and make a choice based on it

Im sure both will make great espresso

There is enough difference is size and mech to differentiate them alone and perhaps make a choice on this


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mister_Tad said:


> Okay, so a certain group buy has got me thinking.
> 
> If we assume equal costs for both, anyone able to offer opinions of the Compak E8 and Ceado E37S side by side?


It is a bit pointless doing side by side assuming the cost to be the same when that group buy is 400 less than an e8, which is a knockout grinder its self, but that group buy is a ridiculous price


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Plus that e92 is now within your criteria and davec rates that as the best grinder he has ever used


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

If it's an odd question, it's because I'm an odd individual. My inner desire to have shiny toys is constantly at odds with my inner desire to get a deal, whether it's £20k off the sticker price of a car or 20p off a loaf of bread. I do lead a troubled existence at times because of this.

The comparison assuming the same cost is valid for me because it's something I'm going to be using perhaps 10,000 times over the next 5 years, so £400 is neither here nor there (and by that logic, neither is £1400, but nevermind) in the grand scheme of things, if and it's not right, it's not right. That said, as much as I can tell without going hands on, it is right.

I've also discovered that apparently £750 is under my mental threshold where "purchase scrutiny" gets switched up to the next level, as I'm happy to take a punt on the basis it can't be far wrong and the timing is rather fortuitous. I shall go and get the group buy on its merry way. Thanks all for the input, it has been invaluable!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What do you drive?


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

My wife, completely insane.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You will definitely not be dissapointed with the e37s it is user friendly and 83mm burrs, easy to clean and grinds superb. Consider that e92 as well because hat is less than an e10!


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

I think £1400 is where I would feel compelled to kick the tyres before purchasing, which seems like it could be tricky and would put me at risk of missing out on the group buy.

£750 on the other hand is basically Zenith money, which was only ever really a "control grinder" for me, so kind of a no brainer (I mentioned I was odd, right?). I'm certainly looking forward to it, so thanks for arranging!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mister_Tad said:


> My wife, completely insane.


Nice motor


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

A bit like an Alfa - nice to look at, but not always the easiest to live with


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Mister_Tad said:


> A bit like an Alfa - nice to look at, but not always the easiest to live with


I've one of those too.


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## goodq (Oct 10, 2011)

Between the ones I have tried mini (dont choose this, would produce good results but with a lot of TLC), Robur, K10, K30 I choose the k30 (although I still miss the K10!!). see post here

If you will choose the K30 I would go with its pointless looking for a new one (quite a lot of used ones popping up on ebay). If your looking at a used K30 then I would recommend you find one that is the WBC version with the changes made after the many complaints they got on clumping (see here http://www.mahlkoenig.com/file/download/default/id/3573)

You can purchase this update from Mahlkonig (very easy to do) but it then adds up since most likely you would change the burrs and then add this update (might as well buy a new one)

You can also wait for the new K30 which apparently will be updated soon. Rumour has it: vertical burrs, minimal retention, more ideas from the EK etc.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Parts for the k30 are significantly higher than they used to be..if your looking into a new cassette for example then its £180 plus


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