# Nespresso and the death of artisan coffee?



## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

"in the UK, more than 15 Michelin-starred restaurants use Nespresso, the market-leading capsule system, to make their coffee - including Heston Blumenthal's Fat Duck in Berkshire, and The Ledbury in London... even in Italy, where the first espresso machine was patented in 1884, more than 20 Michelin restaurants use the new capsule system"

That shocked me, so I read on:

http://www.aeonmagazine.com/being-human/julian-baggini-coffee-artisans/

Actually, this is a very poor article, the giveaway is this line:

"In distant last place came the ground coffee I had brought, a very good quality, single-estate bean, but not roasted for espresso and *ground four days earlier*, a little too coarsely for Bruno's machine."


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

So many people have been telling me how great Nespresso is lately, and that it makes the best espresso.

Sad really









If a Michellin star restaurant tried to serve me a Nespresso drink I would not be paying for it, that's for sure.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

One of the finest Michelin starred places in Europe...take a look at the drinks menu

http://www.onyxrestaurant.hu/drink-menu


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I wish the Italian restaurant I went to for the works Christmas dinner had a Nespresso machine, couldn't have been worse than the freshly ground, hideously overextracted, espresso I was given.

Full credit to restaurants who make the effort to serve coffee with as much care and thought as the food, but it will largely be seen as an adjunct and something that waiters & waitresses can rustle up. I wouldn't be too disappointed to be served a pod/capsule coffee in a restaurant, unless they were making specific claims based on the quality of their coffee. I can even see how bad coffee may be seen as an advantage...meal is done, customers are sitting around chatting taking up a table, give them a cup of foul bitter liquid, that'll get them out the door and we can turn the table! ;-)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi RoloD,

I think a little fuller disclosure is required for your edit from the Aeon article to put it in proper context:

"In distant last place came the ground coffee I had brought, a very good quality, single-estate bean, but not roasted for espresso and ground four days earlier, a little too coarsely for Bruno's machine. The traditional house espresso scored 18 points, and was the favourite of one taster. But the clear winner with 22 points was the Nespresso, which both scored most consistently and was the favourite of two of the four tasters. Of course, these were just four people's opinions. But their consensus fits the judgment of top chefs and Nespresso's own extensive testing, which must have been conclusive enough for them to have the confidence to agree to my challenge in the first place."


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

an interesting article... and shows just whats at play here. I guess it is possible for a nespresso to be good enough. I've tried one, it was pretty nice, in a very 1 dimensional, smooth coffee kinda way. It was a lot better than an starbucks or costa i've ever had, and thats probably good enough. I'd be happy to be served that in a restaurant over some stale illy beans ground haphazzardly and over extacted to death.

lets not forget, nespresso isnt cheap. On a shot per shot basis, its a lot more expensive than a traditional method, so perhaps quality should quite rightly be expected. Its not for everyone, but its a huge step up from instant, and i suspect is bette a result than many bean-cup machines.

Don't dismiss it entirely


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## wmoore (Dec 19, 2012)

I think it's got more to do with convenience than anything else. If the nespresso gives a 'good' constant coffee to the customer and saves on training costs etc for staff, then why not use the nespresso system.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

wmoore said:


> I think it's got more to do with convenience than anything else. If the nespresso gives a 'good' constant coffee to the customer and saves on training costs etc for staff, then why not use the nespresso system.


Yeah, I see your point, but if I was paying £200 for a meal crafted by the finest chefs, i'd expect (if i ordered) a coffee, it would be crafted by a top barista

The same if I was buying their wine too..

I guess my point is - they don't compromise on the food in any way, why would I want an average drink to go with it?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If Onyx (in Budapest) can manage it and also Sat Bains in Nottingham http://www.restaurantsatbains.com/index.php and even a bl00dy pub in Harborne http://files.theploughharborne.co.uk/wp/

These exceptions should be paving the way for others!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think the point here is the "Michelin Star" bit. I would prefer to be served a Nespresso than the dishwater served by most restaurants. I have never eaten in a Michelin Star restaurant but if I did I would expect everything to be extraordinary, that is what the star stands for after all. The food is so expensive because the person making it is at the top of their game, giving me something I cannot get anywhere else in the world. If I paid a high price for a coffee in such a place and got none of that background then what is the point in the premium?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I tried a pod machine being demonstrated in a shop the other day. I listened to the salesman's spiel which was full of bullshit but I didn't pull her up on any of it. You know what? The espresso tasted alright. Leagues ahead of any I tried from the big boys a couple of months ago - I enjoyed it, and it didn't make my face screw up. Like MWJB said, I'd much rather end a meal with that rather than a "freshly prepared" shot of bitter muck that's usually offered.

I don't understand why this article is flying around so much. It's a facile look at auxiliary taste influences, including an experiment which the author concedes is flawed. Nothing to get ones knickers twisted over. The lengthy reply from the Colonna and Smalls dude seems very disproportionate.

I do agree that expensive restaurants should serve decent coffee though.


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## Antibubble (Oct 23, 2011)

Nespresso is simply another way of taking a product, re inventing it with extra processing that will 1, generate a market and 2, add greater value to the product and hence profit.

It has always been this way. Many people fall for gimmicks, others will want to eat or drink the honest, unadulterated food.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Antibubble said:


> Nespresso is simply another way of taking a product, re inventing it with extra processing that will 1, generate a market and 2, add greater value to the product and hence profit.
> 
> It has always been this way. Many people fall for gimmicks, others will want to eat or drink the honest, unadulterated food.


This is pretty far off the mark if you ask me. A product is created for a market that exists, it is exceptionally rare that a company generates a market that did not previously exist. In this case there is most definitely a market, people want a cup of coffee thats better than instant but does not take the investment and time of an espresso machine.

As many people here will attest Nespresso tastes pretty good. It is miles and away better than instant, stove top or french press with supermarket grounds but still has the convenience of being instant and with no skill required, that is not a gimmick, it is fulfilling a very real want of the target market.

Speed and convenience dont influence my choice in coffee, so I spend the time and effort buying beans and using an espresso machine. Most of the people I know, family and friends would much sooner get a 'good' coffee on the push of a button.


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## Antibubble (Oct 23, 2011)

The market is coffee, it's a new product within that market to generate income with something 'new' and innovative, like round tea bags etc.

I have never drunk nespresso so I can't comment on its relative merits; and I happen to like the odd stove top! But lets be honest this is just clever marketing.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

If there was another product on the market that produced coffee equally as good with the same level of convenience I would agree, but there isn't. A round/pyramid tea bag still makes the same cup of tea, but Nespresso genuinely produces a better coffee than the alternative made with supermarket grounds.

Like most others here, I grind my own coffee and use an espresso machine to make it, and the coffee I make is worlds better than the Nespresso my mother has. But the Nespresso is perfectly drinkable, if I was given one I would be perfectly happy with it.

I haven't drunk stovetop in over a year on the other hand, because of the beans used rather than the method, because it just doesnt taste nice to me.

I can't specifically limit this to Nespresso, there are other pod systems out there but its the only one I have tried. I have heard it is markedly beter than the alternatives, but who knows, THAT might just be the marketing.


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## Danm (Jan 26, 2012)

Slightly tongue in cheek but, if you go to prufrocks for coffee, do you expect michelin starred food?

Why should it be the other way round


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Prufrocks dont have a michelin star... so no. I mean they are renowned for their coffee, not their food. A michelin star says that the restaurant is exceptional, the whole restaurant, its not just the food.

If I read a review that said a certain restaurants food was exceptional I wouldn't then expect the same for their coffee, or even their service or anything else. But in a restaurant that is starred for its all round quality I would be put out that I was paying such a restaurants premium for pod coffee.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Michelin stars are given purely for the food... Or so Heston and Gordon tell you about their chats with the Michelin people in their biographies.... Easy for them to say, they both have three









That's like going to an artisan coffee shop and complaining they bought their cakes in from costco or something (not a brilliant example I'll admit)..... You go there for the coffee, you go to a Michelin star restaurant for the food.

I'm not sayings its right, but lets get it in perspective. Artisan coffee is barely a main stream business, it's there for people who want it and appreciate it and that wont change, because people like us strive for that perfection. Nespresso is not going to make a dent in it.

I'm pretty sure the success of Burger King isn't worrying Michel Roux too much


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

To clarify: Michelin stars are for food. They also have a 'fork and spoon' rating rom 1-5 For the overall restaurant (which would include coffee). The fat duck holds 3 stars, but only 2 spoon and forks. just so you know.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Ok, I was wondering if I was right to assume it was for the whole restaurant.

But the very fact that the article is about restaurants with Michelin stars not serving good coffee must be based on that same assumption... They are associating the star with general quality, not just food quality.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

D_Evans said:


> As many people here will attest Nespresso tastes pretty good. It is miles and away better than instant, stove top or french press with supermarket grounds but still has the convenience of being instant and with no skill required, that is not a gimmick, it is fulfilling a very real want of the target market.
> 
> Speed and convenience dont influence my choice in coffee, so I spend the time and effort buying beans and using an espresso machine. Most of the people I know, family and friends would much sooner get a 'good' coffee on the push of a button.


 I think this is absolutely right. They have tried make espresso making as convenient and as close as possible to 'real' espresso - this is miles away from instant coffee and probably better than other forms of pre-ground coffee. Don't forget that espresso machines were orginally invented for 'convenience' - to deliver coffee as swiftly as possible in cafés.

Of course it won't taste as good as the coffee we want to make - but few want to go to the lengths and expense we go to. When you learn how much a decent coffee grinder costs, the notion of pre-ground and sealed pods of coffee begins to make more sense - as we know, making really good espresso at home is not a simple process.

When I begin to talk about my espresso machines most of my friends think I'm crazy - they don't want to go through the processes I go through to make a cup of coffee any more than I want to brew my own beer or learn to knit my own sweaters. Nespresso fills a need and probably gives people a drink that really isn't that bad. The only thing that surprises me is that upmarket resturants want to go that route - but then weren't Gary Rhodes and Terence Conran once caught using frozen chips in their restaurants?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

RoloD said:


> weren't Gary Rhodes and Terence Conran once caught using frozen chips in their restaurants?


I used to work in a Conran joint. Some of the shit they served was indeed shameful - the coffee not the least of it. While it's reasonable for somewhere renowned for it's food to not serve first rate coffee, you'd at least expect something palatable. Wine is seen as an integral part of a good meal out, so why should coffee be an after thought?


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

One of the restaurants by me used to sell Costa Coffee (I haven't been in for a while so don't know if they still do). The problem I saw with this was that because they were selling a recognisable product, it had to be at least comparable in terms of quality of the drink (or close to) as to what was being sold in the real Costa Coffee up the road that customers would be used to, and given the likely training of the staff, throughput of product and storage of beans, I'd imagine customers were more likely to be disappointed than astounded.

Nespresso on the other hand is unlikely to disappoint the general population and is more likely to produce a consistent output for each customer (and requires very little training for staff, produce less wastage, etc), therefore I don't blame a restaurant owner for choosing one as they're just managing the customer's expectations.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Surely in a high class restaurant they should invest in that training, just like the do for their cooks? I think that its more that people actually prefer the softer taste of a Nespresso to an intense "barista style" espresso.


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## friz (Oct 30, 2013)

they dont seem to be that bad, and they are the best of the capsule systems!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm sure they are.... If you snort them. Cock off!


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I have a nespresso machine. I got it for 30€ but it is so bad I even have 6 of the 10 free capsules I got with it. It isn't even comparable to a 20€ espresso machine. Crap coffee.


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

My mum has had a Nespresso machine for years, actually she's on her second. She admits to having a George Clooney obsession though.

I haven't had a great coffee from it yet, main complaint is its too cold, would help if she warmed her cups I guess.


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