# Sage Barista Pro-- under extraction



## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

Hi all

I've just bought a Barista Pro and use beans from my local roasting house. The beans were roasted 4 weeks ago.

When pouring a shot it is firing out really quick (14-15 secs including pre infusion). The internal burr grinder settings have been changed to 2/3 and the dial grind setting is on 1 so the beans are ground really fine.

I've used a sage pro grinder before with the same beans and a different machine with great results so I'm at a loss on this one.

I'm using the single wall double basket and have weighed the grounds (18grams) which seems to be the most you can get in the basket when I used the razor trimming tool.

I dont really want to change beans as it's the house blend from a local company who I really like to support , and the beans are good.

Any advice would be really welcomed

(I know there are better grinders out there, but I just dont buy that it's the grinder).


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Can you grind finer?

If not, try getting more output in the cup.

How much beverage do you have after that 15s?


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## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

Its pre set to 60ml of espresso which is what I like. I couldn't get any more than 18 grams into the basket and sage advise to use the trimming tool which gives me 17-18 grams of coffee.

I could change the Internal burr setting down to 1/2 and then have it set at 5 or less but that seems extreme.

The beans were roasted 24/10/19, I just looked. A touch old , but not ancient ??


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomOchoa84 said:


> Its pre set to 60ml of espresso which is what I like. I couldn't get any more than 18 grams into the basket and sage advise to use the trimming tool which gives me 17-18 grams of coffee.
> 
> I could change the Internal burr setting down to 1/2 and then have it set at 5 or less but that seems extreme.
> 
> The beans were roasted 24/10/19, I just looked. A touch old , but not ancient ??


 I don't understand 'liking 60ml of espresso'. You're getting 60ml but still not liking it. That 60ml needs to be reasonably extracted, so you need the appropriate grind setting. Check you are getting 60g with scales under the cup, don't rely on the volumetrics.

Stop using the trimming tool, just use 18.0g and tamp flat to the depth of the steel band.

An extreme grind setting would be one where the burrs audibly gnash, or the grinder slows down significantly under load.

2 month old beans is probably pushing it.


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## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

I've measured it and it is 60ml each time. Its extracts in less than 15 seconds so the shot doesnt taste good and little crema too.

I'll grab some fresher beans tomorrow and have another play about.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You say you have measured it, but you also say the measurement is 60ml. Please confirm you are using scales and are getting 60g each time. To be 60ml exactly each time seems too good to be true.

15s sounds a little fast, adjust the grinder finer if the new beans don't come into range.


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## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

It volumetric so pours to 60ml. I also measured by volume to be sure and it was 60ml each time, only it really extracts quickly so the shot is crap.

I changed the internal burr settings to 1 (finest) and the dial level on the LCD monitor to 5 and it's now 17-18 seconds.. but still not right.

Will try new beans tomorrow as those are 9 weeks old.

If that's the case, then these commercial machines rule out your average Joe buying beans from a supermarket as they would surely be months old ??? Or perhaps those people just have under extracted sh*t coffee?

It's very frustrating!!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I have a DTP, I don't drink under-extracted coffee.

You still seem to have scope to grind finer.

There is no right shot time, yes 17-18s is on the quick side, but you might not be that far off? I had 2 tasty 21-23s shots today.

Preserved beans like Illy & Lavazza might fade quickly, but should be fine on opening.

You might also be able to pick up more recent roasts from Roastworks & Union from Waitrose/Ocado. (I don't understand why anyone would spend hundreds on a machine just to feed it with '£3 a bag' supermarket beans).


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Just going back to this.

Have you seen on the sage site that it recommends 19-22g in the basket for the barista pro? Thats pretty huge! And also doesn't make sense with the size of the basket and the trimming tool!


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## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

It sounds like the beans are past their best and you'll never get a decent extraction.

Different beans will require adjustment, I suggest not being stuck on 60ml, adjust the volume and grind to your taste buds, use a set of scales to weigh in and out to, if the roaster gives notes they will be a good starting point.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It might be worth checking the grinder

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/49058-how-to-check-any-sage-grinder/?do=embed

Both of the Sage grinders I have used would choke the machine with 15 bar brew pressure *what ever *beans I used and both of them had been set up correctly. 15bar - that is the pressure just past the blue sector on a barista express's gauge. It's when it's opv opens and the machine looses it's shot accuracy if that opens too much. A little is ok.

With or without a gauge sage's instructions on tuning are poor. Forget them and just tune for a ratio that produces a drink that suites. Forget over and under extraction in their terms and I'd also add that people should try ratios other than 2 in 30sec. Keeping to 30sec makes life easier in this respect but some prefer longer. Plus as it's a volumetric machine actual shot time will vary a bit.  That's the idea.

John

-


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## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

Hi all

Thanks for the help.

Sorted it now! It was defo the beans. I bought the same beans but direct from the roasting house. I changed the burr settings back to mid range and the external LCD grind settings and the machine is purring like a kitty! Great double shot that tastes amazing and extraction time is 25 seconds with plenty of range on grind settings to tweak.


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## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

It transpires that where I bought the beans are not storing them well and not rotating stock!!!!!

Lesson learnt


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Glad you got it sorted. These things can drive you insane, but the mantra of 'use fresh beans' just keeps coming up time after time.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

MWJB said:


> You say you have measured it, but you also say the measurement is 60ml. Please confirm you are using scales and are getting 60g each time. To be 60ml exactly each time seems too good to be true.
> 
> 15s sounds a little fast, adjust the grinder finer if the new beans don't come into range.


 Would you mind a minor clarification for me please are you meaning that the coffee at 60ml may not weigh the same due to the viscosity of the coffee changing? And 60g is a more desirable measure. Cheers


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Border_all said:


> Would you mind a minor clarification for me please are you meaning that the coffee at 60ml may not weigh the same due to the viscosity of the coffee changing? And 60g is a more desirable measure. Cheers


 I think he is meaning using a volume on a glass, as a good proportion will he crema/gas


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

TomHughes said:


> I think he is meaning using a volume on a glass, as a good proportion will he crema/gas


 That makes sense ?. Thank you


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomHughes said:


> I think he is meaning using a volume on a glass, as a good proportion will he crema/gas


 60ml in a glass could mean greatly varying weights in grams. Plus none of the glasses I have, or have ever seen are well calibrated, or easy to read from standing height.

Using scales just takes out a lot of the guesswork (you still need to establish when to kill the shot to hit desired weight) and is more consistent.


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## TomOchoa84 (Jan 22, 2018)

lake_m said:


> Glad you got it sorted. These things can drive you insane, but the mantra of 'use fresh beans' just keeps coming up time after time.


 Cheers. Yes its quite incredible the difference.


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## tallamericano (Apr 27, 2020)

TomOchoa84 said:


> Hi all
> 
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> Sorted it now! It was defo the beans. I bought the same beans but direct from the roasting house. I changed the burr settings back to mid range and the external LCD grind settings and the machine is purring like a kitty! Great double shot that tastes amazing and extraction time is 25 seconds with plenty of range on grind settings to tweak.


 What were the grind size and grind time you ended up with? Did you stick to 18g coffee beans also? I have the same problem


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