# re-chroming an e-61 group



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

---THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED TO REFLECT ENTIRE PROCESS AND FOR EASY READING. REPLIES TO BELOW THREAD ARE IN REFERENCE TO "original OP" QUOTED BELOW---

During restoration of a VBM machine, I was umming and arring about removing the pitting/dents the group has suffered from commercial use. I then used an abrasive polish on the group which caused scratching, I got a proper chrome polish and tried to remove these but I went straight through the chrome... this sealed the deal and I took the group off to the electro-platers to be de-chromed.

The process of de-chroming, and the process to come in which I will have it re-chromed cost £30 excl VAT in total.

The process I used to remove the pits - this can be achieved with a high speed home drill (mine is from tesco), some flap wheels, sanding paper/pads and some polishing mops. Where to buy these items linked below.

Due to the shape of the group this process was slow, and I had 10 or so drill slips which cause another pit for me to remove. If possible mount your drill on a vice and maneuver the group, otherwise be very very careful and go slowly. Total work time on this group (for a novice, such as myself) was in the region of 8 hours.

>Start with the highest grit you can, I had to start with 80 on some parts, 120 on others. I used flap wheels on a high speed drill/dremel. Be very careful, a small flap wheel held too long on one spot will create a shallow dip, distort the light and look odd when finished.

>work you way through the grits, I had the following flap wheels so this is the process I followed 80>120>240>320. Perpendicular at each stage where possible to remove every last scratch. Check for scratches from the previous stage under strong light and at all angles, you want every single line gone, or you will be going back to it later.

>At this stage I used medium then fine 'AHPcontour' pads, at a guess these are equivalent to about 800/1600 grit. *

> I then used Autosol on a loose fold mop on a high speed drill for the next stage, going over the whole thing until I was sure there was nothing left from the previous stage, then going over a couple more times.

>Then compound p175 on a loose fold mop (This is good enough for chroming but ultra fine hairline scratches can be seen at very obtuse angles) spend a long time going over and over on this stage until you are 100% sure you have covered the previous stage.

* After speaking with the owner of "thepolishingshop.co.uk" (after I had already been through the process above) I was informed that his compounds are capable of polishing from 320grit. This would be achieved with 439T green compound on a close stitch colour mop followed by p164 blue with a 'G-mop' then finished with p175 yellow on a WDR loose fold. This method would not have been suitable for some of the nooks and crannies on the group, as the close stitch mops would not have reached in there.

Compounds and abrasive flap wheels bought from "http://www.thepolishingshop.co.uk". Absolute 5 star service, not to mention the best prices online (better than amazon in most cases), a fantastic £2 delivery option that has never taken more than 2 days, and really high quality compounds (in my admittedly limited experience). Was very responsive via email and put my mind very much at rest that I had achieved a good enough finish, a rare site that ticks every box you could want.

I bought my abrasive pads from Amazon, but they are cheaper on the above link, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from there in the future.

Here you see the worst pitting to the front of the group, and the dirt and oxidation from being in the de-chroming solution










Here you see pitting in the top of the group after an initial polish with Autosol










This image shows the pitting removed as per my process above, this is after the fine abrasive pad, and before Autosol










The image below shows the front of the group after Autosol, the camera fibs quite heavily here and doesn't show the scratches that Autosol leaves.










This image shows the top of the group after Autosol. You can see the scratching on the group, it is the same all over, but the camera is again lying about the rest of the group.










And then after polishing with p175










The group head came back from the Electro-platers. How does it look? Well good and bad results. It looks much much better than before. But its not perfect. I read online before polishing that "Chrome is a mirror of the surface below" and this could not be more accurate, it is also a very effective mirror, much better than brass, so any imperfections not only show up but show up very well.

Polishing is not just about 'painting by numbers', although that will get you so far, there is obviously a nuance and an expert understanding of the processes involved that mean you are unlikely to get perfect results on your first try and a thing like this. All that said, I am very happy with the job I have done, and the group looks so much better than before.

For those interested, the Electro-Platers said they would charge about £60 for polishing, which would have been £90 in total. I have no idea how good a job they would have done in comparison to myself.

Here is the finished article

    

This is the pitting I was removing, it's still there albeit much less. I did not notice this at all in the brass, and was pretty surprised to see it in the chrome. Just goes to show how good of a mirror the chrome is.












original OP said:


> So another hypothetical from me here as I stare at a machine I'm fixing up and wondering if anything can be done about the dinks in the group.
> 
> The group cant be rubbed down or polished as I risk removing the chrome from the brass and making it look bloody awful. So, if I wanted it to look shiny and new what would be the process of getting the group re-chromed, or is it something to leave well enough alone and put up with a few imperfections?
> 
> If its possible and anyone has an idea of the kind of cost or particular type of chroming needed I am all ears


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Phone a local electroplaters or something. Type 'chroming service manchester' in to google and phone some people.

If I end up keeping the Brewtus i'm going to get it powder coated (but leave the group chrome)


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I'd have a chat with this bunch - though probably going to cost £50 or so... http://www.rschrome.co.uk/

You could buy a new E61 group for about £120.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Indeed, but I thought I would see if anyone could give me an idea before I do so... as I dont really plan to act on this right away as it is purely cosmetic, and I imagine expensive









Mr Shades - £50-70 was my wild guess at a price for it, I have not been able to cost a new group but I imagined it to be more than that.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I've costed one - and could get one (sans handle assembly - but assuming that you could swap yours over) for around that price... ;-)


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Didn't spot that post before Shades, I got an astronomical quote to begin with of £150+VAT, but that was from a company who do end to end guaranteed perfectly smooth chromed finish.

I received several more quotes today for the removal and re-application of the chrome of around £30-40, all manchester so I don't have to ship several kg worth of group head! The polishing in-between would be down to me with these quotes, but its brass so I am fairly confident I can get it to a completely smooth finish.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So I went ahead and threw caution to the wind and had the group de-chromed. Here are some pics of it and the process so far.

The mucky group after picking up from the Elctroplaters

















The pitting, caused by careless use of the machine in a business and repeated whacking of the group with the lugs of a PF.










After a bit of a shine










Another view of the pitting after first wipe down










Pits removed, stage before final polish










And polished for chroming










The pitting required I started off with 120grit sand paper on a mouse detail sander. Then used some sanding pads 'coarse, medium, fine' no grit value. Then rubbed down with 2000 grit and then polished with Wenol Blue on a power drill, even the Wenol leaves a very faint hairline scratch, and I have some Autosol on the way to see if I can get a true 100% mirror, but when the polishing is in a uniform direction it looks great, and the chrome will look just as good


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Good job. I thought about getting my group coated when I did the rest of the machine but the chrome is a nice contrast


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think your machine looks great. I never considered a paint job when I started up this restoration, so the panels are all in being polished at a metal polishers in Manchester, but would certainly consider a paint job next time round!

Do you mind me asking how much the paint job cost?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Powder coating with an acid etch to make it more durable was £50 - £25 each colour, which is minimum charge


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nice job Dylan...well done !!!!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Powder coating with an acid etch to make it more durable was £50 - £25 each colour, which is minimum charge


Cheaper than polishing, which was £70 for the sides, front and a couple of bits.



Mrboots2u said:


> Nice job Dylan...well done !!!!


Thanks


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Nice work, looking forward to see the finished job.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Would the brass discolour in use - or could it be coated?

Cos the natural brass looks cool!

ie Brass shiny looks "better" than chrome shiny!


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Second that comment ^ polished brass looks great. But it's nowhere near as durable I'd imagine.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Yea, I think the key is durability, brass scratches very easily where chrome does not.

Brass would naturally discolour, but regular cleaning with Brasso would keep it looking *****. However a Brass group would look slightly out of place in a chrome and stainless steel surround. It would be a great project to take all the brass chromed bits and have them stripped (although the brass would likely be different colours) and get the stainless bits made again in brass, could possibly be a bit ostentatious in some kitchens, but I do love the polished brass look.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Bit further along with this now.

I'm quite bad at remembering to take a photo of the 'before' stage, but here is an image of it at a late stage of sanding down. The corner bit here originally had some bad casting defects so I ground it right down starting with an 80grit dremel flap wheel, then 120 then 240 then 320, followed by med then fine contour pad. The below image is a mix of 320 and the first contour pad. Sanding around the rest of the group is from pits and defects, each stage of sanding grows a little as you cover the last and eventually the whole group needs doing.










Then after that a lot of Autosol and a loose fold buffing wheel on a high speed drill, went over the whole thing with this 3-4 times. This is now ready for a final stage brass compound, which I have but I need some new loose fold WDR buffs. The scratching you see on the group is as good as Autosol gets it, buffing compound from here.

About 5-6 hours sanding and buffing to get to this stage.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

thats looking really good


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Thanks, its been a pain in the behind, and I have had about 7 or 8 drill slips which have created brand new dents for me to have to level out. Its also not 100% perfect as some of the sanding left a slightly uneven plain which distorts the light and I am in no mood to go back to 80grit to smooth it out.

That said it still looks much better already and I'm looking forward to getting it ready for chroming, my body panels should be back from the professional polishers soon as well and then its time to put the whole thing back together!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Used some buffs I had lying around to get it 99% of the way, hopefully the new ones I have on the way will get the final pure mirror finish.

You can barely see scratches in this photo, but they are there. Click to expand.


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## themartincard (Feb 22, 2015)

That looks beautiful, Dylan. Almost a shame to have to chrome it!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

themartincard said:


> That looks beautiful, Dylan. Almost a shame to have to chrome it!


Thanks, and indeed it is. I would love to keep it like this but its very easy to mark and would look very odd with all the chrome fittings


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Some great quality work, especially the transition from photo 9 and 10.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Looks excellent!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So, I sent a couple of emails to the owner of the website I have been getting my compounds and mops from and he said that I am trying to get it to much too high of a standard. The image above is finished with a compound called p175 and he said that he works with platers all the time who never finish beyond this compound.

So the good news is is that its already ready to head off to the electro-platers which is will be doing later in the week! I'm going to update the OP with the whole process.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I have updated the OP...

The group head came back from the Electro-platers. How does it look? Well good and bad results. It looks much much better than before. But its not perfect. I read online before polishing that "Chrome is a mirror of the surface below" and this could not be more accurate, it is also a very effective mirror, much better than brass, so any imperfections not only show up but show up very well.

This means that the surface has the very faint hairline scratches that the Brass had, and can be seen when looking at sharp angles. One or two scratches that run against the grain that I had not noticed now catch the light at the wrong angle, thankfully these are on the sides of the group.

Why did I get advised that p175 was good enough? It's very likely that the machinery used by a professional polishers is simply capable of getting a perfect finish on brass, where my home tools were not. If I were to embark on this again I would ensure a perfect finish before chroming. The unfortunate thing is that the advice I got about my finish already being good enough meant that I didn't pursue the perfect finish I intended to get, which would have given me a more satisfying final piece.

The Chroming has also shown up that I didn't fully remove some of the denting. This was a surprise to me as I did not notice it at all in the brass.

I do have to say that the above is being incredibly picky. The group looks great and so so much better than it did before. For £30 and a bit of elbow grease I am more than happy with what I ended up with it just isn't 'perfect'.

Anyway... pictures.

    

This is the pitting I was removing, it's still there albeit much less. I did not notice this at all in the brass, and was pretty surprised to see it in the chrome. Just goes to show how good of a mirror the chrome is. The lines visible are just finger marks, not scratching.


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Looks like a good job to me from the pics, It'll look great when the machine is back together.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

iroko said:


> Looks like a good job to me from the pics, It'll look great when the machine is back together.


Indeed, I also had the stainless bits 'polished' by 'professionals' unfortunately I think I got taken for a bit of a ride and their finish left a lot to be desired. The did, at least, take it to a halfway point but it means a fair bit of work before its at a standard where I am happy with it, and it can't go back together before then!

Just taking something to a 'professional' to get it done means **** all in the end I guess, unless that place comes recommended from someone who has had equivalent work done. The chroming place said that he couldn't think of anyone who can polish [relatively] small bits of stainless to a 100% finish anymore, and I'm in Manchester, you would have thought there were some.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Looks great!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I'd be very happy with that Dylan - looks really good in the pictures. I think you may be being over critical as you've done all the graft - I recon if you bought it new like that you wouldn't even notice the blemishes. £30 well spent mate


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Daren said:


> I'd be very happy with that Dylan - looks really good in the pictures. I think you may be being over critical as you've done all the graft - I recon if you bought it new like that you wouldn't even notice the blemishes. £30 well spent mate


Thanks, and yea you cant see the blemishes in the photos, but its absolutely in 'good S/H condition'. It's been fun to take through the process regardless!


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