# Gaggia Baby - no water from group head



## planetf1

Hi,

I have a ~2003 Gaggia Baby. I've just hit a problem whereby no water (or very little most of time) is coming out of the group head. I've removed the shower screen and plate.

The steam wand IS working, and when switched on the pump vibrates, and seems to suck water up, but then push it back down an "overflow" on the RHS of the machine back into the water receptacle.

The shower plate/screen was last cleared a week ago, along with my first backflush. The machine has never (!) been descaled, but nor have I noticed issues with the machine being used 1-4 times per day, every day.

I've not ventured further into the innards yet, but this has to be the next step as perhaps there's a blockage dislodged by cleaning? The "happy donkey" site sells a pump and more importantly indicates replacement is relatively easy, so I'm hoping investigation is simple too.


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## planetf1

I have removed the cover to inspect.

From what I can see:

-- water is flowing into the system (proven by wand working ok)

-- The overpressure valve is prob ok (wand works fine, at high pressure, only when outlet is totally blocked does the valve activate)

-- the 3 way valve is not causing the lack of flow (if so water would come out drip tray outlet)

-- heating is fine (steam/hot water through wand)

-- electrical buttons seem fine

My conclusion is that the lower part of the boiler (seemingly fixed by allen bolts) is blocked. My thought is to split the boiler for inspection.

Comments on observations/strategy? This is my first attempt at any servicing of the gaggia.

I've posted an annotated picture on flickr ->


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## planetf1

Wondering if before dismantling it might be worth trying any descaling. Perhaps any crud at the base of the boiler might get freed up?

I'm a little wary as to what to use. I have no special descaler in the house.

I have vinegar/lemon juice but worry these could be too harsh/damaging.

We also have fizzy drinks but suspect that could end in disaster.

Am I best getting some kettle descaler

Or do I need specialist coffee machine descaler?

Or given my symptoms is this a pointless exercise


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## gaggiamanualservice.com

hi, it sounds like your solenoid has become blocked, it can be easily removed and cleared, but you will need to open boiler and clear any debris. if you descale now it will be pointless, the boiler needs to be cleared first then start a regime of 4-6 weekly descaleing regards


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## Glenn

I'd recommend buying proper descaling products

*This link* gives a few more details


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## LeeWardle

Cleaning the boiler out is a fairly simple process. YOu will need a new boiler gasket though as using the old one isn't a good idea! Just strip it down starting with the two steam valve. (make sure the machine is cold though obviously.....).. Then remove the two stats. Don't clean off the white stuff though as that is thermal compound) Remove the connectors going to the elements. To the solenoid valve. Remove the nut and washer and slip of the coil. (black plastic) Remove the valve body. Bear in mind there will be water in the boiler so be ready with a container and lots of kitchen roll. The valve has three parts. The square base, the body and inside the nucleous (loks like a bullet with a spring around it) put the base in a vice and gently unscrew the body with a rench. Take care not to loose the O ring that seals them. Also make a note of which way up the nucleous is. Give the body and base a good clean. If it's scaled up put the body and base (not the nucleous) in a diluted descale solution for half an hour until it's squeaky clean. Remove the Exhaust (over pressure pipe going back into the tank)

The boiler is in two parts. The lower part being the group head.Remove the 4 bolts. The boiler (thermoblock) should pry off. again, a few gentle taps with an engineers hammer will help. Remove any detritous from the top of the group head & the boiler.

Re-assembly is the reverse. Make sure you use a new boiler gasket. If you use the old one little leaks will appear. Limescale is worst where hot meets cold (I.e ketle element) so any leaks where hot boiler water/steam is hitting the air will give you crap loads of scale and you'll just have to do it all again! In fact looking at your picture this is happening already (look to the left or the red bung and you'll see some white residue)

Gaggiamanualservice.com should be able to help you buy the right gasket.

Any questions just ask!

Lee

P.S. It's been a year since I worked on domestic machines so if gaggiamanualservice.com has any additions or corrections they would be welcomed!


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## planetf1

What sort of flow rate should I expect (before reattaching group parts) in normal circumstances.

Steady stream? or more of a jet (I currently get a reasonable stream).


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## LeeWardle

Without the showerscreen in it should be a jet. With it tge screen will diffuse the water and spear it over tge surface of the screen.


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## planetf1

Yep it isn't enough. Once the roast chicken is in the oven it's time for some dismantling.


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## ChiarasDad

From my Gaggia Classic the free-flow rate with showerscreen installed but no portafilter looks like 2 oz. in around 7 seconds.


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## LeeWardle

Yeah, that sounds about right. It will of course vary on the pump pressure and how much the machine is scaled etc.

Good luck with the dismantle. Have you got a gasket for the boiler? Please don't strip the boiler without I stalling a new one, seriously it will be a waste of your time. Also, there is little point in just cleaning the solenoid valve as any blockage will have come from scale in the boiler so as the boiler starts to flow again will just pull some more through. Also, runnig a s ales machine will jut put undue wear on the pump.

Regards

Lee


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## planetf1

Looking at the steam valve, I can easily take the white tube from the boiler off it, but horizontally it is connected to the pump, with a several inch long piece of off-shite plastic. This is then attached to the pump with 2 cross head screws, and also forms part of the support for the pump which is mounted through 1 or 2 rubber holders.

I'm loathe to try pulling the valve body (metal) off that plastic unless I know it's the right thing to remove... or do I take the whole white plastic bit with it.

As it happens it looks ok, so I'll skip to the solenoid valve for now & return here if there's replies ;-)

Thanks


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## planetf1

I haven't got a gasket yet. I'll need one. I don't plan on running the machine until I have one. I was going to check the 3way first. Interestingly the pressure release valve and tubing is looking fine. (this is after a descale which got me to a flow rate of around 80ml in 20s -- which sounds too low)


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## planetf1

Body now split. Plenty of gunk inside. starting to clean base.-- removing overpressure piece and 3 way valve pipe and cleaning.


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## planetf1

Boiler/group head now dismantled

* Lots of gritty/scaly crap in base - cleaned

* thin film of scale on base - cleaned

* cleaned joint area of top part of boiler

* noticed 3 quite large pits on wall of boiler - may be indicator of new boiler

* scrubbed out inside with brush (kept top dry) to avoid any corrosion

This leaves me a little confused about the base/group head

Looking bottom up it has

2 holes for bolts

2 small hole for water

slot for large seal against which portafilter sits

Topside it has a copper tube 5cm long

At the side a series of holes for screws + pressure relief + 3 way valve

I don't understand the connection between the water jet hole and the copper tube. If I put some water in the tube and blow it comes out sideways through one hole. If I block the channels on the side I cannot blow. Water does not come out the "jet" hole.

Now wondering if there's a further blockage (perhaps the most serious issue) which was preventing flow.

How can I clear this pathway -- which way does it go! Or is it just the boiler pressure relief, in which case maybe thats ok.

I then poured orange juice (!) into the top (boiler side) to see if it came out below through the side hole. It doesn't - just a side hole. if blocked, nothing.

Now thinking I should soak in mild descaler soln?


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## planetf1

Ok cleaning complete. I think most parts look ok, so next step is to order a new gasket & reassemble. fingers crossed. Am a little concerned at boiler corrosion, but overall impressed that the machine is relatively easy to get to/apart & to replace individual elements.


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## LeeWardle

Wow, loads of posts! I'm not sure what you're describing in post #15, as you can appreciate it's quite hard sometimes when you can't see it! If you have the selenoid valve still in it will be closed so might explain the lack of flow?

The pits in the boiler isn't ideal, but as it's an alloy I don't think it will create too much weakness. AgAin, I can't put my finger on the description of how the valve connects to the pump? If I remember right it's a cream White plastic pipe you're talking about?

Don't use orange juice again though! It's not a good idea!

Sounds like you have a pretty good grip on it though. Where in the uk are you? If you're anywhere ne'er the sw I'd be happy to take a look in exchance for a coffee!

Oh, try and take a photo of the solenoid valve and mountings and I'll tell you how to get it off. I get confused between models! They are all pretty simelar but different! Ha ha!

Lee


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## planetf1

LeeWardle said:


> Wow, loads of posts! I'm not sure what you're describing in post #15, as you can appreciate it's quite hard sometimes when you can't see it!


I was referring to the base with the copper pipe here and trying to figure out how the water got to the head here -- I figured out that it's actually via the side holes -- which of course connect up to the 3way valve.



LeeWardle said:


> If you have the selenoid valve still in it will be closed so might explain the lack of flow?


The solenoid valve was removed. I didn't actually dismantle the valve (yet) - although I did try to clean out. I can blow through it. It certainly doesn't meet with no resistance, but it's not totally blocked either. Should I really dismantle this

Photo here



LeeWardle said:


> The pits in the boiler isn't ideal, but as it's an alloy I don't think it will create too much weakness.


I think it must be the softened (slightly acidic?) water -- any recommendations for a source. Even if I don't need one this time around I am concerned that in one of two places there isn't a whole lot of thickness left in the wall, so it could fail. May as well be prepared for an order so at least I know what to do! Mine looks like this. My machine manufacture date is 2003



LeeWardle said:


> AgAin, I can't put my finger on the description of how the valve connects to the pump? If I remember right it's a cream White plastic pipe you're talking about?


Kind of -- the photo is here with (I think) the overpressure valve. I've not removed this piece as wasn't sure how



LeeWardle said:


> Don't use orange juice again though! It's not a good idea!


This was only in the chromed head to see where the channels were. I think that's ok -- not acid on alu.



LeeWardle said:


> Sounds like you have a pretty good grip on it though. Where in the uk are you? If you're anywhere ne'er the sw I'd be happy to take a look in exchance for a coffee!


Thanks. I'm Southampton. Prob makes sense I give this a go first and see if I can get it working , but appreciate the offer. I always like challenge of repairing things - science background I guess, although I'm just as good at breaking them in the first place! Once I've done it a few times I then get bored!

I do like the design of these machines in that they're simple and clearly designed to be maintained. I'm less convinced by the Alu boiler, although not sure whether there any much better machines overall at that price range. Am glad I have a simple manual though!



LeeWardle said:


> Oh, try and take a photo of the solenoid valve and mountings and I'll tell you how to get it off. I get confused between models! They are all pretty simelar but different! Ha ha!
> 
> Lee


As above.

So remaining questions would be:

* Any thoughts on source for a new boiler (planning for future)

* Do you run gaggiamanualservice -- if so did you see my request for a gasket

* when fixing the boiler back together do you use any form of liquid gasket in addition to the rubber?

* Do I really need to disassemble the 3way valve?


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## gaggiamanualservice.com

hi, i can sort you ot any of the spares you need, seals, boiler, solenoid valve etc. just ask or request through my website and i'll do my best for you. regards

Mark


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## LeeWardle

Sorry planetf1, the links are linking to a private Flickr page so I can't see the content!

Lee


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## planetf1

Oops. Flickr permissions should be corrected now for anonymous access.


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## LeeWardle

Ok, just checking the forum in bed on my iPod so I'll go through your post tomorrow night and look at the pics and hopefully answer a few questions!

The boiler does worry me a tad though. Mark will give you more info as to how dodgy it is, and whether it's cost effective to replace it or not. The thing with those boilers as you're probably aware is that it's reAlly a thermoblock. (The elements heat the entire boiler) and of course comes as part of the group head too. If the damage is on the top half then of you're lucky you'll just be able to buy that. I have a load of gaggia schematics on my work computer so I'll see if I have the baby and let you know. Otherwise Mark will give you the info.

Check in tomorrow!









Lee


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## planetf1

After not sleeping too well last night, a broken gagia is not fun. However a colleague at work is selling a Pezzetti Moka Pot for £4 so that's going to be an emergency backup


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## planetf1

Gasket arrived yesterday thanks to gaggiamanualservice . perfect fit. reassembled (surprisingl easy), tested, flushed. Looking good.

*far* more water coming through now -- a definate shower-- enough to come through a little fast for my grind -- just some tweaking needed for the new flow.

Just one issue (that I had before also). I had a new group had gasket from Happy Donkey, along with a new portafilter. The gasket/filter seems a tad thick for the baby with the result I can barely rotate the portafilter. First attempt it fell off during a brew (not funny...)

The gasket wasn't leaking, just preventative. Not sure if new one will "bed down" soon, or if I'll just go back to old one. Also not sure if new portafilter is a bit thicker, or if gasket is wrong type/thickness. It protrudes by


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## planetf1

Swapped back to old group seal. It's quite old (original) and a little hard, with an indentation from portafilter, but it doesn't appear to leak, and now allows the new portafilter to move *just about* to 6 o-clock (barely). The new portafilter looks the same size but I really struggled to even get enough rotation to grip the portafilter.

A problem possibly deferred.


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## Glenn

There are 2 thicknesses of gasket for Gaggia machines and although they are close in thickness there is a definite amount of additional travel available when the thinner gasket is installed

Was this the one you ordered? http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd6005.html


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## planetf1

Yes, that was the one. Should I have got something different?


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## LeeWardle

As the bayonets on the portafilter and the grooves on the group wear over time there comes a point where een with a new seal the portFilter pushes along to the 5 and 4 o'clock position. The thicker seal obviously solves that probem. You just need the standard one.

If I remember rightly one is 6mm and one is 8mm. You need the former.

Lee


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## planetf1

That makes perfect sense, but in this case I think Happy Donkey are in error on not clarifying. However as old seal working I may just leave it ... at some point it would likely wear & I can then replace.

Good news is that the espresso came out good this morning  Many thanks for all the help/advice here. No doubt I'll hit the machine again, probably boiler in a year or two but have confidence now if what's doable.


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## BanishInstant

Glad you have things working. There are some knowledgeable people on here.


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## LeeWardle

Hopefully Glenn will pop in on this one and suggest de-scale intervals?

Lee


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## ChiarasDad

Descaling was a formality in the part of California where I used to live, but now that I'm in the Thames River Valley its necessity is all too apparent. I too would be interested in Glenn's take on intervals. I durgol-ed my machine about five or six weeks ago, and it clearly needed it ... but I'd rather spend my money on beans than durgol so I don't want to do it much more often than my shot-a-day habit calls for.


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## mesitisg

ChiarasDad said:


> Descaling was a formality in the part of California where I used to live, but now that I'm in the Thames River Valley its necessity is all too apparent. I too would be interested in Glenn's take on intervals. I durgol-ed my machine about five or six weeks ago, and it clearly needed it ... but I'd rather spend my money on beans than durgol so I don't want to do it much more often than my shot-a-day habit calls for.


Same here in Cyprus. Water is very hard


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## NickHill

Did you ever get to the bottom of this, I have the same problem?


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