# No water from group head, but is pumping through the wand Gaggia Classic



## SteveR

So it arrived today, a 2006MY Classic, that looks almost unused as per seller description, who had checked it was working OK before shipping, and no reason to disbelieve that. Question is, what is the likely cause(s)? I don't necessarily want to send it back, as it's in such good condition compared to many of the battle scarred ones that I have seen. I only have a vague idea how it works, and the most challenging task I've undertaken was to change the thermostats on my old Baby Class....I'm prepared to have a go myself, but I'd probably need my hand holding through the process.


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## DaveP

Just to recap how it works

Pump on and steam switch on = hot water through the wand when steam valve open

Pump off and steam switch on = steam through the wand when steam valve open

Pump on and steam switch off = hot water though the group when steam valve closed

Is every thing above true ?


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## SteveR

DaveP said:


> Just to recap how it works
> 
> Pump on and steam switch on = hot water through the wand when steam valve open
> 
> Pump off and steam switch on = steam through the wand when steam valve open
> 
> Pump on and steam switch off = hot water though the group when steam valve closed
> 
> Is every thing above true ?


1. Didn't check steamer action

2. Didn't check steamer

3. No hot water through the group with pump on and steam switch off / steam control closed

Additionally:

Pump on, steam button off, steamer control open = hot water running through wand


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## Jumbo Ratty

Blocked solenoid.


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## Jumbo Ratty

See post #6

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?35174&p=462301#post462301


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## SteveR

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Blocked solenoid.


The machine was only used a dozen or so times in 2010 - 11 then packed away in storage, is it likely that scale blocking the valve is the problem. It's obvious the machine has hardly been used.

Assuming this is the case, how easy is it dismantle, where is it even when I open the lid up? Am OK to find a youtube video, but I'd be more comfortable following the advice or recommendation from a known source, rather than picking a random video..


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## Jumbo Ratty

Very easy to do.

Unplug, take the top off. You should see the solenoid on the left hand side to the back of the boiler.

4mm allen key iirc. Make sure its properly inserted into the allen bolts. Not much room for manauver so get a good possition.

Will be very stiff if never removed before.

Ill see if i can find my guide to doing it.

Can be off and back on in under fifteen minutes.

Youll need a 14mm and 17mm spanners. Dont worry about bolting the removed solenoid to some wood to get it apart,, the two spanners can do it


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## Jumbo Ratty

The guide i followed has been removed from the web.

Its very easy,,just take photos of where the wires connect to the blocks they come off.

Just make sure the allen key you use is a good one, not worn. The correct fit and well inserted into the bolts.

You do not want to round them out.

It will take a fair ammount of force to undo them. They will eventually release with a click.

The knack is getting the allen key in at a certain possition that is good for you and the size of your hands to get the leverage neccessary


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## SteveR

I just watched a vid of it being changed on a baby twin, the advantage being you can take the whole cover off to get to it. I was worried I'd have to take the boiler out to do it on the classic.


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## Jumbo Ratty

No, the boiler stays put.

But i almost guarantee that if the solenoid is blocked the boiler will need to be descaled.

The scale blocking the solenoid isnt due to it building up in the solenoid, its due to a flake of scale coming off the wall of the boiler and getting lodged there as its the bottlemeck


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## SteveR

That makes sense of course, but what I am struggling with is how that can happen if it's never been used, or only a small amount? It's not heated enough water to leach out the limescale...

The Gaggia service advice suggests it can potentially be cured by descaling:

With solenoid valve machines (pre 2015 Classic, Baby, Tebe, Paros) it is important to regularly de-scale and prime the machine. This is because the solenoid valves can block with tiny particles of scale or impurities. Regularly running water through the brew head can be useful, even if you are not making coffee. If water is not coming though the brew head but water is coming through the steam wand, you may have a blocked solenoid or blocked basket or blocked brewing parts (shower disc, shower holding plate or exit holes) or there may be an air lock. Press the coffee button and open the steam wand to run water through the steam wand and when you have a steady flow of water, close the steam wand with the coffee button still on. This will allow the water to flow through the brew head. If water is not coming through the brewhead then you have a blocked brehead or solenoid. You may proceed to descale the machine.

If no water is coming through the steam wand then you cannot de-scale the machine and will need expert help.

You may also try pressing the coffee and steam buttons intermittantly to agitate any tiny particles blocking the system. Please call us for advice.


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## Jumbo Ratty

2006 model?

Did you buy it from a forum member?

I promise you, i need to descale once a month and i use an inline water filter.

Now i descale monthly i havent had cause to take my solenoid off.

Id say 200 drinks made and not descaled is getting into danger terrotory depending on water,,bad water and it would be even less.

Scale could have been dislodged in transit.could have left previous owner working perfectly.


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## mcrmfc

Descaling could make it worse...more scale falls off boiler walls, falls to bottom and blocks solenoid.

Even if it hasn't been used "much" you know how quickly a kettle scales up in a hard water area and then water has probably been sitting in it for long periods of time.

You really need to get the thing apart as per the time honoured whole latte love video.


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## hotmetal

Yes if it was me I'd give it a good descale seeing as you can get it out via the wand at least. You might be lucky and the descaler could dissolve the tiny flake that is blocking the solenoid (most likely). Even a clean low-use machine might have built up enough scale in the boiler if it was used with hard water. Well worth a try before you get to taking the solenoid off and trying to manually clear it. Hope it does the trick.


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## SteveR

Yes it's a 2006 model, and no as far as I know not a forum member. It was only used a dozen or so times, so even in a hard water area that's going some maybe, plus it was all working fine after storage as it was tested out thoroughly before it was shipped. It came with a blanking plate, and I know that it has been backflushed previously.

I'll try the de-scale, nothing to lose by doing that. If it works, then I'll use it for a week, and probably run an intensive de-scale programme for the following few weeks! If it doesn't work, I'm not going to attempt the full latte love video, which I watched earlier this evening. I probably don't have all of the tools, and certainly not enough patience. Much as I don't mind a bit of modding, ultimately for me it's just a tool to make good coffee with, not an engineering project!


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## El carajillo

Even the smallest amount of water left in an aluminium boiler / vessel over a long period will cause scale and sediment.as the water reacts with the aluminium and what water was used in the machine is unknown.


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## SteveR

Sorry, more questions, not been able to find the answer to this, but during a descale, do you need to leave the unit switched on - ie to keep the water hot?


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## Jumbo Ratty

No,,turn it off in between running the pump


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## SteveR

mcrmfc said:


> Descaling could make it worse...more scale falls off boiler walls, falls to bottom and blocks solenoid.
> 
> Even if it hasn't been used "much" you know how quickly a kettle scales up in a hard water area and then water has probably been sitting in it for long periods of time.
> 
> You really need to get the thing apart as per the time honoured whole latte love video.


Descaling agent (I think the Gaggia agent is mostly acetic acid or vinegar) dissolves limescale which is mostly calcium carbonate. It's whether it can dissolve the small particle blocking the valve sufficiently to let water through and clean the complete system. That's my hope anyway, and it's worth trying a bottle of descaler before unscrewing anything!


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## SteveR

Woo Hoo! Ran first descaler cup, left for fifteen minutes, just ran second lot and there's water coming out of the grouphead and the steam wand, all nice and frothy so full of carbon dioxide presumambly. Thanks all for your help and advice, I really appreciate it! Hopefully that's the problem solved!







and only only a couple of hours before I can stop drinking Nescafe Degusto pods!


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## SteveR

I also bought some Gaggia "coffee clean" when I bought the descaler - how best to use these and how often? What about backflushing? What is the best cleaning agent to use when doing it?

Thanks again for all your help, it's really appreciated.


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## Jumbo Ratty

For back flushing I use

Cafiza Urnex.

I got mine off ebay


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## Jumbo Ratty

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172833611306

You might find it cheaper,,this is jyst an example


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## SteveR

Great, thanks for the links.

First shot wasn't great, but it's been a long time, extraction time was 27s or so, so where it should be I think. Second shot much better, given it's not fresh coffee. Extraction time again 26-27s this time smoother and nuttier flavour that I like. So, I haven't wasted my kilo or so of beans that I pre-ground, but I have some fresher unground beans that will try next. However, frothing milk with the rancilio wand, jeez it's hard to get right! By the time I think I've got it right and swirling it's got too hot! This will need some practice, but I'm pleased that I've managed to get a taste that's close to my local coffee #1 after two attempts.


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## DaveP

> This will need some practice


Water with 1 drop of washing up liquid (doesn't have to be Fairy)


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