# Cellini Evo V2 - steam pressure problem



## Enpea (Jul 23, 2017)

Anyone experienced something similar to this and fixed it?

My 8 year old Cellini (Yup, I know how to use it now! ) has worked flawlessly for all that time but now I'm having real problems with steam pressure.

The machine shows appropriate steam pressure (about 1.2 bar) after initial switch on/boiling cycle, before I open the steam wand. I open the wand to flush any water (the pressure drops then, of course) and let it heat up to pressure again (about 15 secs, so OK). That all works just fine. I usually steam in a 600ml jug. The foaming/heating process starts well and the pressure drops as you would expect but after about 15 seconds the pressure will have fallen to around 0.5bar, the wand starts screeching and the foam produced is small bubbles rather than micro foam. (Note that the boiler will start re-heating when the pressure drops, but it does not reheat fast enough to restore good pressure). That's not so good 😞

I've replaced the boiler water depth sensor for the steam chamber, thinking it may have corroded and that I simply was not producing enough steam cos the water depth was too high. It hadn't corroded and the new sensor made no difference. I've replaced the pressure valve on the top of the boiler. No difference. I've attempted to clean the boiler with de-scaler (but I have not disconnect the water sensor). No difference.

In the initial heat-up stage, the boiler heats up as normal and if left unused, will reach a steam pressure of 1.2 bar and the heater will cut out normally. Left at idle, the steam pressure will drop quite quickly after that - maybe down to 1.0bar after 30 seconds, when the boiler will cut in again and restore pressure. Its like the pressure is leaking away, but there are no hissing sounds or wet patches to give that away.

I've used the Sirai pressure stat to increase the pressure to 1.3bar - that works fine, indicating to me that the pressure stat is OK - but I still get the severe pressure drop when steaming, so that doesn't help.

Any ideas? Can the steam chamber "choke up" in some way, prevent enough water from steaming up? Can it be cleaned out?

Is there something in the machines complex plumbing that might cause this?

Or is this a new boiler job - or something else?

Help! My coffee tastes like instant granules - it doesn't get worse than that!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Have you owned it from new...has the steam tip or heating element ever been replaced?


When did you first notice this problem, was it gradual or sudden deterioration?


What water do you use (if you say tap water or britta filter, where in the country are you), when was it last descaled?


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## Enpea (Jul 23, 2017)

Hi Dave,

Wow you're quick off the mark! Thanks.

I've owned it from new and cared for it with the same love I have given my children. (And they are OK!)

I have several steam tips - they are all clear. I don't think there is a problem with the steam valve itself or the steam delivery pipework.

The heating element has never been replaced. I wasn't looking at the element as a source of the problem as we get up to pressure in a reasonable amount of time and also the E61 brew group side of things is working fine. Could there be a problem with the element that I'm missing?

Cheers

Nigel


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## Enpea (Jul 23, 2017)

Replying to your edits, Dave...

We are in a hard water area - North Hampshire

The water is filtered by a Franke filtered water tap - this is the filter https://www.grldirect.co.uk/franke-02

The machine was last descaled a month ago - just common-all-garden kettle descaler in a 3/4 full water tank, passed through the system in 4 bursts over a couple of hours.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

My thoughts were that limescale is preventing it from heating the water fast enough...but presumably you believe that's not a problem. If it's not limescale causing it, I can't think of any reason. It seems to be heating OK as pressure rises and falls when the pressurestat asks, so it's reasonable to assume it's doing the same when steaming.

I quote from Frankes own site, note the filter does not reduce hardness!



> My kettle seems to be constantly full of limescale and we often notice a filmy substance on the top of tea and coffee, too. Is it possible to switch to a filter cartridge that will stop this?
> 
> Yes and no! 50% of UK households are in hard water areas - but the actual hardness of water still varies dramatically from home to home. Franke standard filter cartridges do not tackle hard water because as a product that is intended to deliver healthy, great-tasting drinking water, calcium and magnesium (the causes of limescale) are regarded as essential!





> The machine was last descaled a month ago - just common-all-garden kettle descaler in a 3/4 full water tank, passed through the system in 4 bursts over a couple of hours.


 I am not sure I understand your descaling method, sounds like you are running it through the group only? In 4 bursts over a few hours...It sounds like you may not be descaling it properly. The Cellini Classic is like this inside and is a horizontal boiler...at least the last time I reviewed one. This does give some issues for descaling, and it's super hard to get all the descaler out of the main boiler....probably 11 boiler drain downs and refills. Can you give a bit more information about exactly how you are descaling it.


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## Enpea (Jul 23, 2017)

Hi Dave, thanks for following up.

My machine is similar to the one in your internals photo but mine is the Cellini Evoluzzione V2, so the boiler is lagged and the location and type (Mine is a Sirai) of the pressurestat and some of the pipework differs. I can photo it if it would be useful?

My descaling process is pretty simple and (I see what you are getting at) I don't think it will introduce and (or maybe just a little) descaler into the full void of the steam chamber.

I simply put an appropriate mix of limescale descaler into a full water tank, boil it up, then drain through the group head, the steam wand and the hot water wand, before letting it rest to do its magic for 30 mins or so, then repeat the whole process 3 to 4 times til the tank is nearly empty. Then flush with two full tank loads of fresh water.

Is there a way to decal the steam chamber too, if that is what I must do?

Thanks again,

Nigel


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## Bigbrownbear (Oct 7, 2020)

Perhaps check in with Rocket directly. Pretty sure they would be helpful. Keep us posted. 🤞


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Enpea said:


> Is there a way to decal the steam chamber too, if that is what I must do?


 - Turn machine on and let it get up to temp;
- Turn machine off completely;
- open hot water tap and let it drain;
- empty the tank;
- Fill with descaled solution;
- turn machine on: This will start filling the service boiler (steam boiler) with the solution inside your tank. it should reach up to the usual water level, but will never go above the level probe (i.e.: it will not fill the "void");

Repeat the process as described above but fill with water to flush the boiler until there's no taste/residual left.

As Dave said, the method you are using fills the service boiler with the amount you drain from the hot water tap only (i.e.: Very little).

The other way you can do is to remove the vacuum breaker or the level probe sensor and fill the boiler manually with the descale solution that way.

Needless to say... Descaling is a bad idea and should be avoided rather than remedied.



Enpea said:


> The water is filtered by a Franke filtered water tap - this is the filter https://www.grldirect.co.uk/franke-02


 PS: This doesn't help with limescale. You might as well not bother. It does not remove calcium or magnesium at all.

Good luck.


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## Enpea (Jul 23, 2017)

Thanks guys for your helpful input. I followed Mediumroaststeam's advice.

Twice!

It's pretty much the same as my own "method".

Things have improved a little - I nearly have enough pressure now to steam a jug, but after 8 years of hard water I fear matters have gone too far for a simple de-calc. Once we are allowed to travel again, it's off to a Rocket service agent for me.

Any recommendations for Rocket specialist service companies in/near to Hampshire/Berkshire?

Thanks for your help.

Nigel


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