# Descaling question: 10 months of Tesco's Ashbeck (Bottled water)



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi,

I thought I'd share a picture of the mushroom of my Pro 700 after 10 months of only running Ashbeck through it, making, most of the time, 1 latte and 1 flat white per day.










Should I descale in a few months time?

Thanks.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Yes, even with very soft water its a good idea to run a descale from time to time.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Think I might be more worried about the fluff you might introduce back inside from the towel


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

One caveat to this advice. if you use the machine for hot water, then the service boiler only might need descaling. If you have seen my advice given countless times over the years to not use your expensive espresso machine as a Kettle rather than a kettle...then: No don't descale, check it in a year or two if the highly limited usage continues.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

If you want to strip the chrome from the mushroom descale. Much better to check it every so often and if it is scaled then worry about descaling.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Rob666 said:


> If you want to strip the chrome from the mushroom descale. Much better to check it every so often and if it is scaled then worry about descaling.


A descale once in a while shouldn't strip the chrome, i had a group head in a very strong critic acid for 2 days and the chrome was still ok. (group head was being re-chromed anyway)

The mushroom i originally took out of the machine had been completely stripped of its chrome, and was covered in scale, so I'm not sure what actually causes the stripping of the chrome on the mushrooms, but i don't think it's descaling.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Dylan, I don't know either. However, I do know that on the two occasions I've descaled, on two different machines with E61s , I get chrome particles from the mushroom.

Maybe DavecUK has an answer...


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It is my suspicion that the formation of scale actually eats away at the chrome, and when you descale it dislodges the chrome, but it's complete guesswork. I can find nothing online that suggests citric attacks chrome plating.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> One caveat to this advice. if you use the machine for hot water, then the service boiler only might need descaling. If you have seen my advice given countless times over the years to not use your expensive espresso machine as a Kettle rather than a kettle...then: No don't descale, check it in a year or two if the highly limited usage continues.


Hi David, on your side: it's a espresso / cappuccino machine, not a tea or Americano machine.


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> One caveat to this advice. if you use the machine for hot water, then the service boiler only might need descaling. If you have seen my advice given countless times over the years to not use your expensive espresso machine as a Kettle rather than a kettle...then: No don't descale, check it in a year or two if the highly limited usage continues.


My missus takes one mug of tea worth (from my R58 every morning in the week, perhaps I need to put a stop to that then. I thought really low turnover of whats in the service boiler wouldn't be ideal so never discouraged it.


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## dlight (Nov 11, 2014)

I understand that it's a good idea to take a daily cup of tea's worth. If you don't draw off any water from the steam boiler, it will get a greater concentration of minerals over time and discolour the water. A cup a day draw off is a good idea.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mushroom after 18 months of Ashbeck and no descaling.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

This is not a surprise, but are you aware that Ashbeck does not fall in any recommended ranges for boilers? A pH of 6.2 is on the low side for boilers. Most sources recommend 6.5 or higher.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> This is not a surprise, but are you aware that Ashbeck does not fall in any recommended ranges for boilers? A pH of 6.2 is on the low side for boilers. Most sources recommend 6.5 or higher.


No, I wasn't aware of that. What does that mean? Corrosion on the long run? Stainless steel and/or copper?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I believe there is no agreed technical description in the UK or Europe as to what defines hard or soft water, having said this Ashbeck is 35-55 PPM parts per million which is just under the wire for commonly agreed soft classification at

I use an under sink filter which gets my local water down from 135 - 240 PPM Depending on season to just 40PPM - do I still get scale ......... yes a bit

here is a thread I did and a test kit you can get https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?33726&p=447009#post447009


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pessutojr said:


> No, I wasn't aware of that. What does that mean? Corrosion on the long run? Stainless steel and/or copper?


Risk of corrosion. You could add 1 part Tesco Perthshire to 3 parts Ashbeck.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jimbojohn55 said:


> I believe there is no agreed technical description in the UK or Europe as to what defines hard or soft water, having said this Ashbeck is 35-55 PPM parts per million which is just under the wire for commonly agreed soft classification at
> 
> I use an under sink filter which gets my local water down from 135 - 240 PPM Depending on season to just 40PPM - do I still get scale ......... yes a bit
> 
> here is a thread I did and a test kit you can get https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?33726&p=447009#post447009


There are various resources with specifications for good boiler water for coffee machines including Jim Schulman's FAQ, SCAA water spec & SCAE water report. It's not the hardness in ppm that's so much the issue but bicarbonate (alkalinity - look for 45 to 75mg/L on the bottle label.) & pH (6.5 or more).

Typical British water might be from 160-500ppm total dry residue and still fall within normal UK bicarbonate levels (averaging maybe ~150mg/L) .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Wobin19 said:


> My missus takes one mug of tea worth (from my R58 every morning in the week, perhaps I need to put a stop to that then. I thought really low turnover of whats in the service boiler wouldn't be ideal so never discouraged it.


It's so small, it's not worth the hassle and if it keeps the wife on side....


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## Coffeeadict (Jul 25, 2019)

I have been using TESCO Ashbeck water for at leat 5 yrs now in my Gaggia Syncrony Logic and have never had any indication of scale build up anywhere in the machine. Thus, I have never descaled the machine. By the way I make between 5-10 coffees a day between my wife and I.


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## The Asgard (Aug 1, 2017)

No issue with Ashbecks with my R58. My mushroom looked very similar and I just removed the flaky chrome, boiler was fine. Don't worry about it and enjoy your coffee.


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Weird to join here and find out Ashbeck water recommended

We've always bought it as we've always liked the taste , of all the supermarket waters

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

I got a Fracino Cherub which I have used Volvic water in since I got it. Machine is around 2 years old now. I did use water filter jug water for 1 month at start then switched to volvic only.

Not descaled yet.

Do you guys think I should?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

nekromantik said:


> I got a Fracino Cherub which I have used Volvic water in since I got it. Machine is around 2 years old now. I did use water filter jug water for 1 month at start then switched to volvic only.
> Not descaled yet.
> Do you guys think I should?


Take the the top of the mushroom out and inspect it. They will give you an indication of what will be like inside the boiler.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Take the the top of the mushroom out and inspect it. They will give you an indication of what will be like inside the boiler.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 cherub does not use a traditional e61 head so not sure if it even has a mushroom


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

two years of volvic...Maybe. It is very very slightly scale forming.


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

Rob1 said:


> two years of volvic...Maybe. It is very very slightly scale forming.


 Ok thanks

Descaling on machine with a boiler the size of this will take time. one of the cons of having one of these vs something like a gaggia classic which is quicker to descale


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Is the Cherub HX or Dual Boiler. A HX is easy to descale. DB's can be a little time consuming even if syphoning out of the brew boiler.


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

Rob1 said:


> Is the Cherub HX or Dual Boiler. A HX is easy to descale. DB's can be a little time consuming even if syphoning out of the brew boiler.


 Its a HX.

I seen some people descale it on here but it took them 3 to 4 full flushes afterwards to get all of the descaler out of the boiler. Which sounds shocking!


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