# Espresso / Filter roast versus Generic Roast



## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Hi,

I notice that some roasters offer specific roasts for espresso and filter, while others have just a single roast. The following article from the Cast Iron website explains why they have separate roasts:

http://castironroasters.com/pages/roast-profiles

I've typically gone for a generic roast as I don't get through coffee that quickly so it's convenient for me to be able to use the same bag for brewed as well as espresso. Given the massive difference between manual brewing and espresso brewing it sounds entirely plausible that a roast could be optimised for each method.

I'm going to try going for specific filter / espresso roasts and see what I think, but it would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on this.


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## robashton (May 9, 2015)

I'm all for optimising, but most "espresso" vs "filter" roasts essentially come down to "we roast darker for espresso because we always have done"

I like Has Bean's take on this http://www.hasbean.co.uk/blogs/articles/6552591-espresso-is-a-brew-method-not-a-roast-style

At best it means that you do get a slightly less acidic espresso roast, at worst it means you get charcoal in a bag.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

''At best this will taste just 'ok' but there is a danger of it tasting burnt and bitter when brewed as a filter coffee and too acidic when brewed under the pressure of an espresso machine.''

I like sentiments but

''tasting burnt and bitter when brewed as a filter coffee'' - They burnt it (a defect)

''too acidic when brewed under the pressure of an espresso machine.'' - They under developed it (a defect) / barista couldn't be arsed to dial it in (user error) / the coffee isn't suited to espresso e.g super bright Kenyan (personal taste)

The converse of what they are saying is , lets shoehorn every coffee into two categories for the sake of it [brew method]

Doesn't each and every coffee have a sweet spot ? or should a Kenyan, washed ethiopia or geisha ''possess strong bass notes'' ?!


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## robashton (May 9, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> the coffee isn't suited to espresso e.g super bright Kenyan (personal taste)


Isn't that what milk is for?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@Gary**** with you on the Kenyan bright espresso


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> @Gary**** with you on the Kenyan bright espresso


Some people love Kenyan espresso , fair play . An amendment to brew ratio can tone the acidity down, thats the baristas job, no one else's .


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

For me, with filter vs espresso I pay more attention to the claimed characteristics of the coffee rather than whether it's being sold as an "espresso" or "filter" coffee; I do wish HasBean could elaborate slightly on their "good for filter" and "good for espresso" rather than just yes or no - would help people like me who aren't very good at this stuff







Then again I've bought quite a few of their espresso blends and enjoyed them greatly as filter.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

YerbaMate170 said:


> Then again I've bought quite a few of their espresso blends and enjoyed them greatly as filter.


Tasty coffee is tasty coffee. You don't need to burn the beans to make it a roast suitable for espresso


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Some people love Kenyan espresso , fair play . An amendment to brew ratio can tone the acidity down, thats the baristas job, no one else's .


The last Kenyan foundry did was super bright as espresso but there was a sweet spot for it, and it made one of the best flat whites i've ever had. Can see why people would hate it though


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

So there's no good reason why my James Gourmet Ethipioan "Filter" Roast shouldn't be put through the L1? Let's see ... !


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffee compass quite often roast the same bean 2 or 3 different ways. Just because a bean is black, if it has been roasted correctly it will not taste burnt or ashy. there is a skill to dark roasting and some roasters have it and some do not.

Some beans are simply better suited to a brew method and some to espresso which in my view, is not a brew method. at the end of the day it is all mainly coffee bollocks as usual


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> . Just because a bean is black, if it has been roasted correctly it will not taste burnt or ashy. there is a skill to dark roasting and some roasters have it and some do not.
> 
> l


Lets put it in a non testical way ...

Black will and can taste burnt to some and not to others , no matter who roasts it

Same as another style of roast will taste Acidic to some and not to others , no matter who roasts it

Taste = subjective preference but is more often that not is driven by the how much coffee is actually extracted from a bean, ( under, sweet spot , over, ) as opposed to the perceived colour the the bean is...

We all taste the same thing differently... ( what does chicken taste like ... )


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

rabbit


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

rabbit with feathers on......when your brown your done, when your black your buggered eh boots....sorry, do not agree....it is quite possible for richard at cc to roast a bean intensely dark and have absolutely no taste of burnt....perhaps you ought to email him directly and tell him your findings


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> ....it is quite possible for richard at cc to roast a bean intensely dark and have absolutely no taste of burnt....


Defying the laws of the maillard reaction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Defying the laws of the maillard reaction
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction


Not at all Gary. The point I am making is that colour of bean is not the be all and end all. I have had some bloody awful beans which were not that dark in comparison and foul to taste, and I have had some beans from CC that you look at them and think, oh no, taste them and are surprised.

Where is Obnic to help me on this one!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> rabbit with feathers on......when your brown your done, when your black your buggered eh boots....sorry, do not agree....it is quite possible for richard at cc to roast a bean intensely dark and have absolutely no taste of burnt....perhaps you ought to email him directly and tell him your findings


You missed the point...

I'm saying that

Just coz you like a bean from somewhere doesn't mean I will and vice versa...just coz you taste it as sweet and delicious doesn't mean I will.

Some of that is down to how its made and what we make it with.

Some of the preference to taste is dictated by sense of smell, emotional memories to taste, all kinds of stuff before its even been roasted...

For you its yummy, for me it isn't ....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> You missed the point...
> 
> I'm saying that
> 
> ...


It might not br yummy, but that does not make it burnt


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

i agree visually examining the beans doesnt really say much about how developed they are, but usually ''intensely dark'' = over caramelised / burnt


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> It might not br yummy, but that does not make it burnt


I wasn't talking about burnt not burnt

I can see We are having different debates here, i was just talking about what can influence taste and preference, not what colour something is or isn;t ...from previous experience I realise that this isn't going to be productive or enjoyable or intellectually stimulating for me . So I'll bow out.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Defying the laws of the maillard reaction
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction


That's duck not chicken


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

haha jeebsy, and I was just about to say lets get back on track with the chicken/rabbit debate


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