# Bad coffee - does it matter to joe public?



## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I'm currently researching, planning and upskilling myself in readiness for a spring 2012 cafe opening in Scotland. Despite loving my new-found interest in the bean and wanting to serve the best coffee north of Edinburgh, with my business head on I do have to wonder *does the average punter care?* Can they tell the difference between a good and bad coffee? It seems to me that as a nation we're well educated about food (thanks to Masterchef, Saturday Kitchen etc) but when it comes to coffee we think that as long as it's frothy it will do.

This makes me think that only a small proportion of my customers will appreciate the quality of my drinks, and from a business perspective that's a bad investment.

I'd love to hear some unbiased views from experienced people.

(Either way, I'll still aim for the best coffee around - but it would be great if it stacked up financially too.)


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Speaking solely from a non-professional point of view, I think that it's self-evident that bjoe public hasn't got a clue about what is, and isn't, good coffee. Otherwise, how come some of the major chains are so profitable? And how do quality restaurants - presumably with customers with discerning taste - get away with serving the junk they invariably do?

But could you work below standard and still be happy (even if it's profitable)? There's the question.

And do you want volume trade or repeat, appreciative customers?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I agree with vintagecigarman, however, there is a trend to educate and as this knowledge and awareness increases then the status quo will not be anywhere good enough for some members of the public

My advice is to start as you mean to go on, serving the best coffee you can to each and every customer.

It's hard to change perception once you have begun trading.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

I think it's about building a reputation personally, especially if you're nearby some other coffee shops that sell 'normal' coffee. If you're going to the effort to make great coffee, be clear with the non-coffee-connoisseur that you're making something a cut above the rest.

I think a big issue is that most people's palates aren't adapted to what we would call a good coffee. On at least two occasions I have heard people in very good coffee shops in london (Notes and Nude) complain about how strong a cappuccino is, let alone trying straight espresso! Everyone has adapted to a double shot in a pint of milk, so I think the key is to make people realise that although it tastes different it's meant to and it's definitely a good thing.

Also, you make a great point about good restaurants serving bad coffee, I think that it's crazy that good chefs generally don't care about good coffee!


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

That's an awful lot of sense from Glenn - if you play to the lowest common denominator from the beginning, you'll have real trouble trying to persuade people that you've raised your game at a later stage. If I walked into a new place and got crap coffee I'd not be back - and I'd probably not go back even if other people told me that the coffee had subsequently improved.

Is there really so much of a price differential between serving good and bad coffee? Surely good coffee will bring in both Joe Public and enthusiasts. Bad coffee will only bring in Joe Public. It seems to go back to what customers you want - one-off passing trade or repeat enthusiasts. And I suppose it's the premises and footfall that will determine which is the more profitable route.

I really hope that Glenn's perception of an increasingly discerning public is a real trend. It would be wonderful to see an overall increase in the quality of coffee available, and an increasing, and increasingly profitable, independent sector - which is missing in some areas (like the sticks here, where I live). The wonderful thing about really excellent coffee is that it is within the financial reach of every customer. There are few, if any, other connoisseur products that are so affordable, and it really appeals to me that the only thing between ANY customer and the God Shot is the expertise of the barista, and not the cost of the product.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks gents - this has given me loads to think about regarding my cafe plans. I wasn't ever planning to serve poor quality drinks - quite the opposite. The point was more concerning how much emphasis I place on coffees alongside the other aspects of the cafe and product range. A good cafe can only do so much, and if I try to do too many things on the coffee side then I'd have to do less on, say, the food side. It's all about balance and what customers want. But this has helped me realise that I do wish to make the cafe stand out from the crowd for the quality and range of its coffees, and I think it certainly does seem worthwhile to at least test customers' appetite for different brew methods within the cafe... aeropress, harios etc. Just an idea at this stage, until I research more.

Cheers!


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

Just a quick note, but from my experience it depends significantly on who you're being compared to. Open up near many chains, where they produce burnt milk drinks and big bubble foam and the very lack of these things will get you good feedback from customers. Not all customers will notice/care, but a gratifying portion will appreciate it. It's also worth saying that an advantage for good quality (be it coffee or service or something else) is that the impressed customers tend to enthuse to all their friends about how good you are and spread a very positive word of mouth.


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## Gints(coffee club) (Apr 17, 2011)

In my opinion the difference can feel everybody just the question is who can tell this!If you want to serve best than do it and serve something more to choose from.There are many coffee shops serving just usual coffees but you can make up your reputation with some different types and tastes.This can be the ignition switch to success with your coffee shop.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Just wanted to resurrect this thread since I first asked the questions 5 months ago, for the benefit of anyone who wonders the same thing in future. On day one of working in a cafe it became completely clear that it definitely does matter to joe public, and that an amazingly high proportion of customers know the difference. But I also think that it's like good restaurant food in that if the customer can see that it was made with care and attention then they will appreciate it more.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I think that you'd find that people can taste the difference between good and bad coffee, they just don't know why. It's like people knowing that food doesn't taste good, but most people couldn't tell you that its because it has too much salt, or because one ingredient has been overcooked, etc.

I have found since getting into this hobby I am really starting to be able to tell what is wrong with coffee. It is very helpful when improving my own drink, however its made me far more critical of local coffee shops. Around where I live it's worrying that Starbucks and Costa are where I'd rather go! I'm still open minded though and willing to give coffee bar's more than once chance but I'm lacking choice of good establishments, the search is continuing.

But I think that leads to another important point; To Joe Public, Starbucks and Costa are established brands that they trust. You may not get anywhere near as good coffee from either outlet as you could serve, but if you locate near either of these then I think you are up against very difficult competition, regardless of the standard of your coffee.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

I believe there is a proportion of the public who crave good coffee, know the difference but unfortunately don't know where to get that 'god shot'. Many others only require the introduction and a little education and they quickly adjust their preferences. I won't mention the 'stubborn' instant coffee drinkers that I have come across. Someone has to drink it!

Mike, I think you are right in maintaining the attention that goes into each and every coffee you deliver. As they say... "If you build a better mouse trap..."


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