# Water won’t stop flowing automatically.



## Coffee monster

Hi, I'm a newbie here, but I have had my Sage Barista Express for a couple of years now and love it. 

I'm having a problem with the autoflow of water. The machine fails to autostop decanting water when extracting coffee or without the portafilter in place. I have to stop the flow manually by pressing the 1 or 2-cup button.

I've tried resetting to default amounts and cleaning, descaling, and changing the filter. It's happened a couple of times now, and last time it seemed to be fixed after giving the machine a thorough clean and descale and change of filter. This time, however, having done all the above, the problem hasn't gone away.

Any thoughts?


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## DavecUK

Sticky flow meter...you don't say where you live and the type of water you use in the system.


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## Coffee monster

DavecUK said:


> Sticky flow meter...you don't say where you live and the type of water you use in the system.


 Hi Dave, I'm in Malvern in Worcestershire. We don't have problems with scale here.

Can you advise how to unstick the flow meter?


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## DavecUK

Coffee monster said:


> Hi Dave, I'm in Malvern in Worcestershire. We don't have problems with scale here.
> 
> Can you advise how to unstick the flow meter?


 My first guess was it's scaled up but you say you have no problems with scale, so you need to try replacing the flowmeter then. What fooled me was your comment about descaling?

the only thing I would point out is that water can be piped from many sources in your area and I didn't think it was all soft enough for espresso machines but I'll assume you have testing your particular supply and it's fine. Low in dissolved solids and low in hardness.


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## Coffee monster

We get very little scale on kettles and taps (haven't had to descale our kettle since we moved here 2 years ago).

We had no problems with the machine for over a year after we bought it. The first time it happened we tried descaling to see if it worked and it did. This time though, descaling has had no effect.

How do I get to the flow meter to check? Could it be something else sticking it such as coffee grout?


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## DavecUK

Coffee monster said:


> We get very little scale on kettles and taps (haven't had to descale our kettle since we moved here 2 years ago).
> 
> 1. We had no problems with the machine for over a year after we bought it. The first time it happened we tried descaling to see if it worked and it did. This time though, descaling has had no effect.
> 
> 2. How do I get to the flow meter to check?
> 
> 3. Could it be something else sticking it such as coffee grout?


 1. Theres your clue....

2. You will have remove the machines case

3. Doubt it.


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## oggioffshore

Had the same problem, delivered it for service / repair. Got it back, it worked normal a week or so, then it didn't stop automatically. Service guys wrote in the report that I had to read the manual page 14..bla bla bla..

Not sure if I'll send it back.

Guess I'll try change flow meter myself, if I can get it.


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## Wellsy5

I'm experiencing the same problem with my Barista Express... The auto flow on both shot buttons or the water flow dial doesn't stop automatically.

This first began to occur after approx 3 or 4 month since new.

I have taken advice from Sage customer service and descaled the machine 4 times now, but yet the problem keeps returning! Stranglely, it can be intermittent and occasionally works fine. !?!

I have to assume it's a faulty flow meter. So I've got back in touch with Sage and will wait to see what they say - their first email suggested they might send an engineer out. I will keep you posted.


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## NathaninIstanbul

hey has anyone sorted this issue out? Ive been having the same problem. descaled manually and with the cycle 10 times at least using descaling solution, vinegar, citric acid etc. one time using citric acid on the descaling cycle it actually started to operate properly, by that i mean the descaling cycle through the shower head actually went for 20secs, previously it would run for 7-8 seconds, stop and the light would flash for the another 15 seconds before i could move to flush the hotwater/steam. after this it pulled a couple of shots normally then stopped shutting off automatically.

should the descaling cycling run for 8 seconds or 20? when you press the one shot button?

thanks

did anyone change the flow meter? i opened it up and couldnt see any build up in the pipes at all and we only use bottled water in it


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## oggioffshore

I ordrer flow meter from eBay.

But have not changed it yet.

Mine happen to stop occasionally, but most of the time it's just running.

Hope to change flowmeter after the summer


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## MrG

Hi
I have the same flowmeter issue on my Sage Barista Express. It startet after about 5-6 months use, and I descale the boiler whenever the machine asks to be cleaned (along with a flush-back clean)

2 questions:

1. Could you please share where you find the replacement flow-meters and how (link?) to change them?

2. Has anybody raised this as a group complaint against Sage? This is clearly a design flaw

Thanks


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## DavecUK

MrG said:


> 2. Has anybody raised this as a group complaint against Sage? This is clearly a design flaw


 Welcome to the forum and I don't believe there has been a group complaint raised. Sage sell so many machines they are unlikely to do anything until sales levels fall significantly and I fear a small group complaint would simply be ignored.


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## Coffee monster

MrG said:


> Hi
> I have the same flowmeter issue on my Sage Barista Express. It startet after about 5-6 months use, and I descale the boiler whenever the machine asks to be cleaned (along with a flush-back clean)
> 
> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. Could you please share where you find the replacement flow-meters and how (link?) to change them?
> 
> 2. Has anybody raised this as a group complaint against Sage? This is clearly a design flaw
> 
> Thanks 🙂


 I didn't have to change the flow meter in the end. My Husband took the back off and gave it clean inside and it seems to have been working ok ever since (fingers crossed!)


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## longhardgrind

If your BE is still under guarantee sage will send it to Coffee Clasics for repair. They did mine a little while ago, same problem, took three weeks because of the virus situation, but they arranged a painless collection and delivery.


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## MrG

DavecUK said:


> Welcome to the forum and I don't believe there has been a group complaint raised. Sage sell so many machines they are unlikely to do anything until sales levels fall significantly and I fear a small group complaint would simply be ignored.


 Yes, you are probably right. Thanks 👍


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## MrG

longhardgrind said:


> If your BE is still under guarantee sage will send it to Coffee Clasics for repair. They did mine a little while ago, same problem, took three weeks because of the virus situation, but they arranged a painless collection and delivery.


 Thanks. I'll do that if I can't get it fixed myself without too much hassel. The thought of being without coffee for 3 weeks in these lockdown times scares me 😉


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## MrG

Coffee monster said:


> I didn't have to change the flow meter in the end. My Husband took the back off and gave it clean inside and it seems to have been working ok ever since (fingers crossed!)


 Thanks. Good point - do you know how he cleaned it?


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## longhardgrind

MrG said:


> Thanks. I'll do that if I can't get it fixed myself without too much hassel. The thought of being without coffee for 3 weeks in these lockdown times scares me 😉


 Good point, but doing it yourself will probably invalidate your guarantee.


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## MrG

Hi

Created a support case with Sage distributer in the Nordics. They told me that some customers have issues with the 3-pin connector used on the flow meter.

I took the back panel of the machine, took the 3-pin connector and gently removed the 3 metal 'springs'/connectors one at the time and 'extended' them to make them grip the pins on the flow meter more firmly.

That did the trick 🙂

I've tried to create a guide here:

https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8

Hope this helps somebody else.

I (of cause) ordered 2 new flow meters on eBay when I first read about this issue, so if you need one, let me know 😉


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## Clubber Lang

Thank you MrG, you are a legend.

I've had exactly the same problem with my Sage Barista Express as everyone else. The brew will keep on running until its manually turned off and like everyone else I suspected the flow meter was having issues with hard water in our area. This is not the case.

I followed the instructions posted by MrG in the post above (shortcut to them in the link below) and two week later the machine has not missed a beat, the automatic cutoff is working perfectly. So it appears to almost certainly be a problem with the three pin electrical connector to the flow meter.

I am a reasonably competent diyer and I would say it's not too difficult to rectify the problem yourself. You just need a bit of patience and a little mechanical sympathy and it should take you about 30 minutes.

Incidentally, Sage warranty department whilst being considerate on the phone, were way off the mark trying to diagnose the problem as incorrect basket being used in the handle! I told them I very much doubted this was the problem but, you know, "computer says no" and all that.

Definitely worth trying to fix yourself, good luck!

https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8


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## NiksuF

MrG said:


> Hi
> 
> Created a support case with Sage distributer in the Nordics. They told me that some customers have issues with the 3-pin connector used on the flow meter.
> 
> I took the back panel of the machine, took the 3-pin connector and gently removed the 3 metal 'springs'/connectors one at the time and 'extended' them to make them grip the pins on the flow meter more firmly.
> 
> That did the trick 🙂
> 
> I've tried to create a guide here:
> 
> https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8
> 
> Hope this helps somebody else.
> 
> I (of cause) ordered 2 new flow meters on eBay when I first read about this issue, so if you need one, let me know 😉


 I am experiencing the same issue. Your diagnosis and your solution seem spot on (thanks for the tip and the great walk-through description).

I was worried it could be signalling a more serious problem with the machine/boiler, but if it's just the flow meter connection then I think I'm good with pressing the cup button twice 😉


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## Cryzz

MrG said:


> Hi
> 
> Created a support case with Sage distributer in the Nordics. They told me that some customers have issues with the 3-pin connector used on the flow meter.
> 
> I took the back panel of the machine, took the 3-pin connector and gently removed the 3 metal 'springs'/connectors one at the time and 'extended' them to make them grip the pins on the flow meter more firmly.
> 
> That did the trick 🙂
> 
> I've tried to create a guide here:
> 
> https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8
> 
> Hope this helps somebody else.
> 
> I (of cause) ordered 2 new flow meters on eBay when I first read about this issue, so if you need one, let me know 😉


 Epic. Worked for me. Thank you!


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## mikegally

MrG said:


> Hi
> 
> Created a support case with Sage distributer in the Nordics. They told me that some customers have issues with the 3-pin connector used on the flow meter.
> 
> I took the back panel of the machine, took the 3-pin connector and gently removed the 3 metal 'springs'/connectors one at the time and 'extended' them to make them grip the pins on the flow meter more firmly.
> 
> That did the trick 🙂
> 
> I've tried to create a guide here:
> 
> https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8
> 
> Hope this helps somebody else.
> 
> I (of cause) ordered 2 new flow meters on eBay when I first read about this issue, so if you need one, let me know 😉


 Hi MrG,

I have the same issue.

Ill be tackling this next week with your very helpful how-to-guide.

I just wanted to check the part number on the flow meter as we live in a hard water area and this appears to be a weak point....is it 974-9541-a

Kind regards, Mike


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## Ned

MrG, you are amazing.

I've been having the same problem as everyone else, water won't stop flowing unless you press the button even after programming it. I came upon your reply and tutorial and I followed everything, and it totally worked!

I can say that I'm not really good at this but I do have a few skills and can follow instructions, the term 'expand' even took me a few good minutes to understand, but you guys can really do this. Didn't order a flowmeter as well.

Thanks again MrG!


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## DavecUK

Welcome to the forum Ned


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## SergioR

Thanks *Clubber Lang*

Followed your guide and it seems to have worked. Wasn't sure what I actually needed to do with the pins so I kinda poked at them. Couldn't quite see how the little three pin part made contact. Thanks though! Fingers crossed the fix holds.


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## Greg66

I wonder whether anyone cam help me with a variant on this problem.

My SB Express did the unstoppable water flow trick this morning. I found this thread, opened it up and tweaked the connector springs as explained by MrG in his link upthread.

Having put everything back together, I now have the opposite problem: no water at all. There is no distinctive "whirr" of the pump when I turn the machine on. The lights all come on, and after a few seconds the lights on the right come on. The top cup warmer surface gets hot, but pressing the one or two cup button does nothing.

It seems unlikely to me that the pump would have failed given it was working minutes earlier - but other than a kinked internal pipe or perhaps an airlock created by tipping the machine backwards to open it up, I'm at a bit of a loss to work out whether I should be ordering a new part, and if so which one.

All suggestions gratefully received.


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## Greg66

Update: I opened it up again, prodded a few bits, looked sternly at some others, plugged it in and turned it on whilst opened up and the pump sprung into life.

Put it back together and it seems still to be working. Though it remains to be seen whether and if so when it will glitch again.


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## SergioR

UPDATE!

Okay, well, I think I spoke too soon. Mine has now decided to stop dispensing water almost straight away. It's as if the flow meter is reporting incorrect data and shutting the pump off way too soon. It's the opposite problem. It worked fine for a day and now this. No idea! I have reset the buttons to factory default so its not a poor program that is causing the issue

It's not quite the same problem as yours Greg in that the pump runs for a bit. I can press and hold the button to have it run as along as a like but when I let go and it moves up to full pressure, it turns off.


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## mikegally

Update -

3 weeks since the DIY 'fix' and it has worked seemlessly, 4 shots per day and not a hint of a problem.

Thankyou very much.

Mike


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## westsurf

Hi,

I'm having trouble removing the back plate. Can anyone give any tips? I've removed the screws as per instructions but it seems quite brittle and I don't want to force it.


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## Greg66

From memory: once you have the top plate off there are screws and clips securing the back plate. The screws along the rear top edge are obvious. The ones on the rear bottom edge are less obvious.

After that it's a case of using something blunt (a spoon handle worked for me) to lever the clips open, plus "courage, mon brave!". It's less brittle than it seems.


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## westsurf

Hi, thanks for the help. I've taken a pic and removed all screws as per the instructions and have given it a fair yank but it does want to budge


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## westsurf

I have removed the 2 screws at the bottom, do the 4 corner ones need to come off too, in order to remove the back plate?


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## MrG

mikegally said:


> Hi MrG,
> 
> I have the same issue.
> 
> Ill be tackling this next week with your very helpful how-to-guide.
> 
> I just wanted to check the part number on the flow meter as we live in a hard water area and this appears to be a weak point....is it 974-9541-a
> 
> Kind regards, Mike


 Sorry @mikegally didn't see your question till just now. The one I ordered is called "Breville Sage Flow Meter 974-9541-A" - found it on ebay. I havn't replaced it though, but it looks just like the one installed by Sage.


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## Greg66

westsurf said:


> I have removed the 2 screws at the bottom, do the 4 corner ones need to come off too, in order to remove the back plate?


 Again: from memory, I don't think the four screws in the corners need to come out, but the two that are inboard a bit at the back, that you can just about see, might have to. HTH.


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## FranSanchez

I have the same problem on my machine but unfortunately it isn't the connector pins. There was a lot of corrosion around the flow meter area from some leak and it seems that the sensor doesn't work. I have removed the flow meter and powered with 5V and the output simply stays high (probably because it has an internal pull-up). I'd like to buy a new one but I cannot find my exact reference (974-9501-B) or good datasheets to understand if the alternatives available are compatible.

Has anyone tried a different reference with the BES870UK?


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## ajohn

MrG said:


> Hi
> 
> Created a support case with Sage distributer in the Nordics. They told me that some customers have issues with the 3-pin connector used on the flow meter.
> 
> I took the back panel of the machine, took the 3-pin connector and gently removed the 3 metal 'springs'/connectors one at the time and 'extended' them to make them grip the pins on the flow meter more firmly.
> 
> That did the trick 🙂
> 
> I've tried to create a guide here:
> 
> https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8
> 
> Hope this helps somebody else.
> 
> I (of cause) ordered 2 new flow meters on eBay when I first read about this issue, so if you need one, let me know 😉


 Nice post. At some point people might want a link to the flow meter.

It's an interesting problem to show it's head as never seen this one mentioned before.

Scale problems of all sorts yes even when not apparently down to that. It can even upset the PID where people would expect it gather. All Sage can do about that is fit a filter and expect people to change it often enough and probably still need to descale at some interval. It's amazing the machines survived the earlier filter but many did.


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## Wilfman

westsurf said:


> I have removed the 2 screws at the bottom, do the 4 corner ones need to come off too, in order to remove the back plate?


 Followed the guide today. I found the corner ones (including the middle ones) needed removing as they were gripping the bottom of the back.


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## Wilfman

SergioR said:


> Thanks *Clubber Lang*
> 
> Followed your guide and it seems to have worked. Wasn't sure what I actually needed to do with the pins so I kinda poked at them. Couldn't quite see how the little three pin part made contact. Thanks though! Fingers crossed the fix holds.


 I found you push the little clip down (as per picture) you can then pull out the wire with spring attached. I then expanded the spring metal a little and reinserted it.


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## ajohn

I've not used mine for some time now but button push duration often does something or the other on Sage machines. Maybe sets manual? i noticed the read the manual.

Can't remember but isn't it infusion while held in followed by manual when released so flow has to be stopped by a button press if it's used this way.

The other odd thing is I vaguely remembering that no flow at all disables the pump. Not easy to get.

 One thing you don't want to do is program a shot time with the portafilter off. If you then pull a real shot it'll try and get the same amount of water through. As flow will be a lot slower the shot will run on and on and on. No idea really why I did this but it explained why my programmed shots were pretty accurate but time varied a bit. Noticeably every now and again.


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## Elliekat

I have just recently had this problem with the flow of water failing to stop automatically. My machine is still under warranty after 18 months, so I will report it and request a repair. If this is happening frequently, then I think that a group complaint should be raised, since it is clearly a fault in manufacture / design.


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## ajohn

I'd like to see a video of this.


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## alfernch

NiksuF said:


> I am experiencing the same issue. Your diagnosis and your solution seem spot on (thanks for the tip and the great walk-through description).
> 
> I was worried it could be signalling a more serious problem with the machine/boiler, but if it's just the flow meter connection then I think I'm good with pressing the cup button twice 😉


 I am still working on my machine. I do not know how to take out the flowmeter. It seems that is glued, and I assume it is not. Can you help me?

In relation to some videos I suggest you take a look at


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## ajohn

There are several videos on fixing solenoids on the Barista Express including cleaning them rather than just replacing. Always worth doing before replacing.

A little time on youtube with a search will find them.

The problem is maintenance issues that all espresso machines can have if there is too much scale around and inadequate back flushing wont help either.


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## SimonGG

Got the same issue with not stopping water and the model has just one screw under the water tank. It's Sage Black. Anyway, got to remove bottom screews as well and was able to disassemble, but the connector looks like it is sealed. Has anyone had the same issue? It was bought Nov 2020 amazon.de as brand new, so I'm wondering if it's a refurb or Sage seals this connector.


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## SimonGG

guess what. i haven't touched the connector at all. Simply assembled it, so I can send it to get it fixed under the warranty and after i assembled it, pluged, it looks like it works. let's see for how long.


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## JamieT

The adjustment on the three pin connector solved it for me, thank you!

My version is slightly older. I didn't have two screws to remove from under the bottom of the machine. All three screws were beneath the reservoir under screw covers, rather than just one.


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## a2kat

MrG said:


> Hi
> 
> Created a support case with Sage distributer in the Nordics. They told me that some customers have issues with the 3-pin connector used on the flow meter.
> 
> I took the back panel of the machine, took the 3-pin connector and gently removed the 3 metal 'springs'/connectors one at the time and 'extended' them to make them grip the pins on the flow meter more firmly.
> 
> That did the trick 🙂
> 
> I've tried to create a guide here:
> 
> https://share.nuclino.com/p/Sage-Barista-Express---Flow-meter-pin-11Ho6ijgOkhDr97DmaOWV8
> 
> Hope this helps somebody else.
> 
> I (of cause) ordered 2 new flow meters on eBay when I first read about this issue, so if you need one, let me know 😉


 Hi all! I'm here from google search, and just wanted to thank you for solution, that's worked great for me! Have a best day!


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## DavecUK

@a2kat Welcome to the forum


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## ajohn

It sounds like Sage have a Chinese connector maker problem. Odd really as that style of connector is / has been widely used in all sorts of things. I suppose vibration might upset them eventually but no need to remove the flow meter just take care of the connector as suggested. There is usually a small bent latching part in a slot. Push it in and the metalwork can be removed. Retension the connection part, maybe pulling the latching section out a bit and then push back in.

This reminds me of something. Some Chinese latching spade connectors. They looked like they were until they arrived. Made to look latching but they weren't. Cheaper than every one else's though. This was some time ago. In the same period people were often complaining about samples used for evaluation being somewhat different to what they received when they bought in numbers.


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## ajohn

🤣 Anyway Sage make interesting machines. Learn more and more as time goes on. I had always wondered how my BE water timed out and as far as I could tell always delivered the same amount. Same with the SDB but slightly too much for the mugs I use at the moment.


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## jrhop

Hi all, I have recently experienced a similar issue with my machine. When the machine was first turned on in the morning, I press the 1 cup to get some water through, however it wouldn't auto stop. I raised it with Sage, who passed it onto Coffee Classics to repair, they sent and engineer out, who quickly replaced the flow meter, tested the 1 cup and it auto stopped as usual. However I then used the machine the next day and the 1 cup runs a long time and the 2 cup wouldn't auto stop. I phoned Coffee Classics back, who said that the flow meters they use might be slightly different to the original ones and I would need to program the 1 and 2 cup buttons for around 10 seconds and 15 seconds respectively, I have done this and after a bit of adjusting it works. But I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience as it doesn't seem right to me?


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## Daval

Adjusting the 3 pins worked for me. Thank you for the instructions.


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