# How do I get 'more extracted' flavours without bitterness/astringency



## xygorn (Feb 10, 2015)

I have found that my favorite homemade cups don't line up very well with common practice.

Coffee to water ratios of 1:8, instead of 1:15.

Very light roasts (2-3 on the UK number system).

Very short extraction times (60 sec in the Aeropress, 90 sec in french press).

Lower temperatures (90C out of the kettle).

This is giving me a great, acidic cup of coffee, which others might call under-extracted. This has been working on a variety of beans (Kenya Blue Mountain/Brazilian Something/Medium House Blend from Coffee Plant, and unknown lightly roasted beans from my local Damascene grocer). So far so good.

I assume that everyone else out there isn't crazy, and that there are some wonderful coffee flavors (chocolatey and nutty sound appealing, and maybe even toasty/roasty) that I could be enjoying as well. But when I experiment with any of the above parameters, I get bitterness and astringency very quickly. Is there a trick to getting the flavours of more extracted coffee without the bitterness/astringency?

- Ziggy


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Coffee to water ratios set the target strength of the finished coffee, rather than the flavour balance, you adjust grind at different ratios to restore balance.

90 sec in a French press is very likely underextracted, not just what someone might call underextracted. If you like what you're getting, then that's great, enjoy - you have to drink it!  There are levels of underextraction that are not always objectionable, but they may not be very representative of the bean.

The bitterness & astringency you mention with your French press brews is extremely unlikely to be overextraction, to get a higher level of extraction than you have already will require one or more of: Finer grind, longer steep, higher temperature.

Nominally extracted coffee, within typical recommended ranges will be sweet, juicy like ripe fruit & more than likely meet tasting notes. You say your coffee is acidic, again if you like that...great. Lots of folk don't like acidic tasting coffee, but they might well like coffee with pleasant acidity (like a ripe plum, apple etc.).

try 16g of coffee, add 305g of water 1 min off boil, wet all the grounds thoroughly with just the pour (don't touch them again) give it 20 minutes, pour off the first 30-40ml, then pour the remainder through the mesh without plunging. Watch that you don't get silt running into the cup, leave a little brew covering the grinds.

The coffee will be a little weaker than you are used to, but you might be able to taste flavours that you haven't been getting before, you could work on gradually increasing the dose to bolster strength, 65-75g/l in 5-10mins works for a lot of people.

Aeropress extraction can vary greatly depending on method so isn't as easy to give a recipe for.


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## xygorn (Feb 10, 2015)

I finally got a chance to try this out. I needed to get new beans, and fix the grind on my Hario first.

The result was very interesting. There were definitely new flavours. The coffee had strong woody/nutty flavours, and the end was very chocolatey. There was a slight hint of astringency, but not unpleasantly so. It was weaker than I was used to, but there was definitely a lot of body to it.

Thanks for getting me to a new starting point to optimize from.

- Ziggy


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## fede_luppi (Jan 8, 2015)

MWJB said:


> try 16g of coffee, add 305g of water 1 min off boil, wet all the grounds thoroughly with just the pour (don't touch them again) give it 20 minutes, pour off the first 30-40ml, then pour the remainder through the mesh without plunging. Watch that you don't get silt running into the cup, leave a little brew covering the grinds.


You meant 20 sec, didn't you?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

fede_luppi said:


> You meant 20 sec, didn't you?


Coffee won't extract nominally in 20 sec, in fact only pressure brewed coffee will get close...even then most espresso takes longer. I meant 20 minutes, the coffee may extract as far as it is pretty much ever going to get in 8-10mins, but I aim for ~70C at decanting & with a 305g brew water 3 cup, glass, French press with the lid on, this takes ~20mins (with a bigger/insulated press may take 40minutes or more), it also gives more time for silt to settle (small particles get water logged & sink faster than coarse) & you get a cleaner, sweeter cup.


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## xygorn (Feb 10, 2015)

MWJB said:


> try 16g of coffee, add 305g of water 1 min off boil, wet all the grounds thoroughly with just the pour (don't touch them again) give it 20 minutes, pour off the first 30-40ml, then pour the remainder through the mesh without plunging. Watch that you don't get silt running into the cup, leave a little brew covering the grinds.


Do you stir at some point to get the floating grounds to sink, scoop them out, pouring them off in the first 30ml, pouring through them, or something else? Pouring through them slows the pour to a trickle, for me.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

No, I just pour the water onto the grinds in a circular manner making sure I wet all the grinds, I don't touch the grinds with anything after the fill (I dismantle the plunger after brewing for cleaning & just use the lid for the steep, screw the plunger back together just before decanting)

If the grind is fine enough your crust should have sunk by 20mins (there may also be grounds submerged at the start that float to the top, then sink again). You might want to gradually push the plunger deeper into the pot to speed up flow, during the pour, but aim to pour the liquid though the mesh, not pump the liquid (& silt) past the mesh.

Sinking all the grinds at the start of the brew can limit extraction, breaking & stirring can also it seems cause early bitterness I suspect from non-dissolved matter breaking down & finding its way into the cup.

Are you sieving your French press grinds? If so, try without sieving (sieving is perhaps better for drip brewing).

EDIT: A quick sieve test shows 55% of my grinds pass through a 500um sieve, so median particle size is less than 500um, they all go in the French press.


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