# Peak Water - from MCD



## jlarkin

I didn't see another specific thread for this, so thought it might be worthwhile posting. Maxwell has put a kickstarter live -with his collaborators - which is intended to help filter tap water to use with coffee at home.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522120647/peak-water-coffee-brewing-elevated

Sounds interesting and it would certainly be nice to reduce the bottles that I'm going through.


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## adz313

@jlarkin - thought this was due up tomorrow, so thanks for posting a link.

Per my comments on the other current water thread (sufficiently unrelated), my views are similar re plastic bottles


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## GingerBen

Thanks Joe, will take a look


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## ashcroc

Better be quick if you want the early bird starter pack. I'm #71/100!

Hope it can handle the London chalk solution.


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## ohms

ashcroc said:


> Better be quick if you want the early bird starter pack. I'm #71/100!
> 
> Hope it can handle the London chalk solution.


I've backed it too! Living here in Scotland, thankfully that's less of an issue.


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## ashcroc

ohms said:


> I've backed it too! Living here in Scotland, thankfully that's less of an issue.


Darn you & your prehistoric volcanic rock filtration!


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## ohms

ashcroc said:


> Darn you & your prehistoric volcanic rock filtration!


I honestly don't know how you guys do it - if I lived in England I'd be installing a water filter to my water supply to the house. Ruins your skin!


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## ohms

ashcroc said:


> Darn you & your prehistoric volcanic rock filtration!


I honestly don't know how you guys do it - if I lived in England I'd be installing a water filter to my water supply to the house. Ruins your skin!


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## MildredM

I am too late to back I think


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## Jony

MildredM said:


> I am too late to back I think


Only a £2 saving anyway. Just do the £20 one so £22 in total


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## J_Fo

MildredM said:


> I am too late to back I think


I think it's too late for the early bird backing but pretty sure you can still back it, it'll just be £20 rather than £18


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## MildredM

Jon_Foster said:


> I think it's too late for the early bird backing but pretty sure you can still back it, it'll just be £20 rather than £18


Oh yes, silly me. Done!!


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## J_Fo

Me too!


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## fatboyslim

Early bird starter back with 12 filters is mighty tempting. Thanks for posting about this.

Definitely good to reduce plastics.


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## adz313

fatboyslim said:


> Early bird starter back with 12 filters is mighty tempting. Thanks for posting about this.
> 
> Definitely good to reduce plastics.


That's the one I've gone for - if you've committed to the jug, might as well commit for 2 years you know!


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## Jony

If it reaches 65k that is.


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## Syenitic

Did no one here think about asking questions. The facility is there on the site, but it is a big fat zero so far?

First off; these bicarbonate busting resins, what are they made of?

Well marketed, but not a lot of substance, though I agree about city to city variance, even within city variance, and then here in Leeds and over to York. I do respect the effort that went into 'water for coffee', but for me I think a work top jug filter is another dispatched into the cupboard solution. I cannot get out of my thoughts that if a filter has a 'working life' it must also have a sweet spot, beyond which it is not as good (either side). Trouble would be identifying that sweet spot I guess, and spending more time than just tasting the coffee.


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## adz313

Having asked a couple of questions, I understand they'll be adding an in-depth FAQ tomorrow (the answers I got were positive enough to make my mind up about pledging) - which will hopefully help to allay some valid concerns


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## rob177palmer

I'm not a kickstarter member yet so can't ask questions.

Could someone please enquire on the volume of water that each filter should process? I guess the four "power" levels of filtration will impact effective lifespans, so likely one filter will process 25-250 litres, say?

The difference in price between a single filter and a 13-filter package is £60 for 12 extra filters, so at £5 per filter (presumably a discounted Kickstarter price??) is a lot of money and needs to filter at least 25 litres to even match Ashbeck's price.

Very interested in the concept but don't want to hamstring myself to what could be one an expensive and niche system.


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## fluffles

rob177palmer said:


> I'm not a kickstarter member yet so can't ask questions.
> 
> Could someone please enquire on the volume of water that each filter should process? I guess the four "power" levels of filtration will impact effective lifespans, so likely one filter will process 25-250 litres, say?
> 
> The difference in price between a single filter and a 13-filter package is £60 for 12 extra filters, so at £5 per filter (presumably a discounted Kickstarter price??) is a lot of money and needs to filter at least 25 litres to even match Ashbeck's price.
> 
> Very interested in the concept but don't want to hamstring myself to what could be one an expensive and niche system.


They estimate that the 13 filter pack will last 2 years.


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## adz313

@rob177palmer

I asked a not dissimilar question - so I'm confident the FAQ will answer it when it's added to the page


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## d_lash

Just backed and still got the early bird price.


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## RoA19

I'm in at £18 + £2 UK P&P too.


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## ashcroc

d_lash said:


> Just backed and still got the early bird price.


It was limited to 100 spaces yesterday & now it's 1000.


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## bronc

I wonder whether the jug would be any good for soft water that doesn't have much minerals which is the problem I am facing. At the moment I am using a epsom salts & bicarbonate soda solution to fix this but it's a hassle and not that straightforward.


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## IggyK

Just backed it will be interesting to see it in action and whether I can through away the Brita filter.


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## StusBrews

I've backed this also. Looking forward to giving it a try.

My currently solutions for Essex tap water are 1 part tap water to 3 parts RO water filtered through the BWT Mg+ cartridge, which gets me a decent brew water quickly. Or I also use the Xpenno soda stream method that gives me better brew water but is a bit more of a faff.


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## Flibster

Maxwell has the prototypes on his stand at the LCF. They look really nice, but are a touch small for my needs. Will take a lookbat the kickstarter and have a think.


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## Phil104

ashcroc said:


> It was limited to 100 spaces yesterday & now it's 1000.


So, now it's time to start criticising the marketing ploy (to maintain consistency with the criticism of Niche).


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## ashcroc

Phil104 said:


> So, now it's time to start criticising the marketing ploy (to maintain consistency with the criticism of Niche).


I guess it was nothing more than a mistake leaving a zero off originally which got rectified within 24 hours.

Or alternatively, they underestimated the launch takeup & increased the units available so more could take advantahe of the 3 day launch offer.


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## Phil104

ashcroc said:


> I guess it was nothing more than a mistake leaving a zero off originally which got rectified within 24 hours.
> 
> Or alternatively, they underestimated the launch takeup & increased the units available so more could take advantahe of the 3 day launch offer.


And as you know, I had my tongue in my cheek. You will see that Maxwell is now posting video FAQs, recorded at the LCF, where I'm going to go and take a look (and ask about the price of the filters). I'm also going to see the Niche people and doubtless come away with all sorts of cheap marketing tat, like Niche key rings, beermats, T-shirts, washing machine powder, newspapers, Haribo sweets (unless I'm getting confused with the caravan that precedes each stage of the Tour de France).


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## Step21

Phil104 said:


> , Haribo sweets (unless I'm getting confused with the caravan that precedes each stage of the Tour de France).


I think you are getting confused with Wiggle.

I'd like to know how it deals with water that is too soft? I.e. insufficient bicarbonate as is the case in large parts of Scotland


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## Phil104

Step21 said:


> I think you are getting confused with Wiggle.
> 
> I'd like to know how it deals with water that is too soft? I.e. insufficient bicarbonate as is the case in large parts of Scotland


You're right and actually I have just bought some stationary stuff from Cult Pens and they enclosed a packet of Haribo with the order, Brilliant. Just the job after 20 minutes on the turbo or a coupe of hours into ride.

Soft water: have a look at the video, which suggests it is possible - but I'll ask.


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## MildredM

Phil104 said:


> You're right and actually I have just bought some stationary stuff from Cult Pens and they enclosed a packet of Haribo with the order, Brilliant. Just the job after 20 minutes on the turbo or a coupe of hours into ride.
> 
> Soft water: have a look at the video, which suggests it is possible - but I'll ask.


Re soft water. Once it has launched they intend looking into S/w discs, according to an update just received.


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## ohms

i have soft water and use a carbon stick, currently - mainly to filter out some of the unpleasant taste from the water treatment here. I wonder if this would combat that in any way too?


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## rob177palmer

So 1 disk filters not less than 100 litres, and costs £10, making the cost per litre 10 pence for the hardest water setting and presumably substantially lower as the source water hardness decreases.

That's great, except that after 2 months the disk is no longer "fresh" and should be replaced.

To consume 100+ litres in a month sounds good going for a domestic setting to me, so the cost in use must be much higher than indicated.


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## ashcroc

rob177palmer said:


> So 1 disk filters not less than 100 litres, and costs £10, making the cost per litre 10 pence for the hardest water setting and presumably substantially lower as the source water hardness decreases.
> 
> That's great, except that after 2 months the disk is no longer "fresh" and should be replaced.
> 
> To consume 100+ litres in a month sounds good going for a domestic setting to me, so the cost in use must be much higher than indicated.


So minimum cost will be £5 a month. How much bottled water would that buy you?


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## MildredM

I reckon we use around und 15 plus litres per month for coffee. I was hoping to use the Peak filtered water in the kettle for tea etc and do away with the Brita jug. Not sure if that's feasible.


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## MildredM

One of the best bits will be not having all those plastic bottles to recycle though.


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## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> I reckon we use around und 15 plus litres per month for coffee. I was hoping to use the Peak filtered water in the kettle for tea etc and do away with the Brita jug. Not sure if that's feasible.


That'll all depend on how much you're currently spending on britta (or BWT +mag) cartridges.


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## rob177palmer

I think that's right on the no plastic bottles. Presumably this is less environmentally damaging, but would be interesting to get them to confirm that.

Yes - £5 per month. It has got me thinking - i need to work out how much I spend on water. No real cooling flush on my lever so I don't think I do 5 litres per week.

Say 4 shots per day = c 200 ml

Washing the group, say 100 ml

Just over 2 litres a week maybe?


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## rob177palmer

I think it's the bacteria growing in 2 months I hadn't appreciated. I was expecting he cartridges to last until they were exhausted, like an in-line filter that is not exposed to air.


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## Nopapercup

How quickly does it filter and how would it taste as drinking water? It's a pretty small jug so is it even capable of filtering 100 litres in 2 months?

I drink roughly 1.5-2 litres a day before coffee and kettle so for me I don't think this jug will be big enough. With the Pavoni a bottle of water probably lasts 4+ days however I go through a load of plastic bottles and I would really like to find an alternative.


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## MildredM

Nopapercup said:


> How quickly does it filter and how would it taste as drinking water? It's a pretty small jug so is it even capable of filtering 100 litres in 2 months?
> 
> I drink roughly 1.5-2 litres a day before coffee and kettle so for me I don't think this jug will be big enough. With the Pavoni a bottle of water probably lasts 4+ days however I go through a load of plastic bottles and I would really like to find an alternative.


If I was going to use the filtered water for drinking I would probably transfer it to a glass jug and keep it in the fridge. I'm going back to them to ask more questions


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## Nopapercup

MildredM said:


> If I was going to use the filtered water for drinking I would probably transfer it to a glass jug and keep it in the fridge. I'm going back to them to ask more questions


That makes sense but it just depends how long it takes to filter one jug. If it's 10 minutes than no problem but if it's hours than it will be too small to use for much else than coffee.


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## MildredM

A reply from Maxwell:

Peak Water will produce water that is both stable for coffee and tea. It will also make nice drinking water. What is interesting is that all nice coffee waters make nice drinking waters but not all nice dining waters make good coffee!We have also designed the jug so that it fits on fridges, so you can do either [decant into a bottle or keep the jug in the fridge]?


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## MildredM

Oh and the time taken is dependant on the water hardness but isn't ever expected to take longer than 5 minutes per jug of filtered water


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## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> Oh and the time taken is dependant on the water hardness but isn't ever expected to take longer than 5 minutes per jug of filtered water


Sounds like it'll have around the same capacity as a britta jug.


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## the_partisan

I'm curious if it does anything to the Ca2+ or Mg2+ content? It mainly seems to be reducing the bicarbonate. I asked a question to Maxwell but haven't received an answer so far.


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## the_partisan

Got an answer, guess he was busy with the LCF







He had also mentioned in a previous reply that it's currently able to reduce 350ppm bicarbonate content to about 50ppm.



> Yes the filter will lower the amount of calcium as well but not focus on Mg as very few waters have high Mg. I would for example quite like to keep the Mg in your water.


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## J_Fo

Ooh, just seen this

[video=youtube;u-mU7prQZuY]


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## ashcroc

Just noticed it's exceeded it's target.


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## Scotford

Not overly excited tbh.


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## StusBrews

Scotford said:


> Not overly excited tbh.


How comes?


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## Sheena_Lance

we used filtered water at home for brewing coffee.


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## StusBrews

Sheena_Lance said:


> we used filtered water at home for brewing coffee.


How is your water filtered?


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## Phil104

A write-up on Peak Water in yesterday's Daily Coffee News - doesn't say a whole lot that hasn't appeared on here or on Kickstarter but it's a useful summary.


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## MogCoffee

I backed this as well. There was a bit of in update just before the world of coffee event in Amsterdam but not heard much more on timeline. Sure it will be a fab product once done but like anything best waiting for mark 2 to iron out any issues.


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## MildredM

This has gone very quiet. Hope it's just due to summer holidays etc.


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## Jony

Oh so.


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## MildredM

New video update today. Bit of a delay as they've change the size and shape.


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## the_partisan

I'm not too hopefuly about January either, given they haven't got tooling and not finished design 100% by the sounds of it. But still looks promising, if they can bring Evian water down to 10-40ppm alkalinity.


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## ashcroc

Updated timeline in the January update.









Laissez les bons temps rouler


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## MildredM

ashcroc said:


> Updated timeline in the January update.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Laissez les bons temps rouler


Just been reading this! It's looking good . . .

Peak Water Partnerships

In the update before Christmas, we mentioned an exciting new partnership for Peak. We're thrilled to announce that Peak Water will now be supported by Innovate UK Government Funding through the remaining R&D and manufacturing process.

This is very exciting, as the Innovation loan allows us to fully realise the development and manufacturing of Peak Water without compromise - doing everything from within the UK. The funding not only provides the support needed to develop and build Peak Water V1 as outlined in the Kickstarter, but also allows us to explore and expand on Peak's potential, through the creation of a Soft Water Filter.

An Updated Project Timeline

The Peak Water development and production timeline, like all R&D projects, has moved around over the past year and we've done our best to cover this in previous updates. With recent development breakthroughs, together with us securing the Innovate UK funding, we thought it best to provide everyone with an updated timeline that highlights what remains in front of us on the road towards Peak Water V1.


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## MildredM

Sorry, just spotted your link as I posted, ashcroc!


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## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> Sorry, just spotted your link as I posted, ashcroc!


No worries. I put it in on an edit so may not have been there when you first read it. 

Laissez les bons temps rouler


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## dsc

Any more news on this? Am I the only one not knowing what exactly it does? Or should I do more reading?

T.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> Any more news on this? Am I the only one not knowing what exactly it does? Or should I do more reading?
> 
> T.


It's adjustable to reduce your alkalinity.


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## ashcroc

dsc said:


> Any more news on this? Am I the only one not knowing what exactly it does? Or should I do more reading?
> 
> T.


Last update was January where the new target is July delivery of the kickstarter units. Think they were supposed to be at LCF too but haven't seen any mention of it from those who went.


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## MildredM

ashcroc said:


> Last update was January where the new target is July delivery of the kickstarter units. Think they were supposed to be at LCF too but haven't seen any mention of it from those who went.


I think there was something on Insta, I'll go look.....


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## MildredM

Yes.....


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> It's adjustable to reduce your alkalinity.


Is this all it does? (Not claiming that this is not enough)

I've seen a lot of claims for "stable" and "optimised" water, but no real definitions, which is kind of a bummer.

T.


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## Scotford

ashcroc said:


> they were supposed to be at LCF too but haven't seen any mention of it from those who went.


MCD and James from Ay were brewing coffees with them on Friday.

James said that even with hot water from the taps in the loos they got some cray tasty results.


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## ashcroc

Scotford said:


> MCD and James from Ay were brewing coffees with them on Friday.
> 
> James said that even with hot water from the taps in the loos they got some cray tasty results.


That's good to hear. I've backed it in the hopes it'll make London water boiler safe so cray tasty will be a bonus.


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## Scotford

Yeah to be fair I trust James with stuff like that as he'd just say if it was crap.


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## MildredM

Just had an email update. It all feels really positive now


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> Is this all it does? (Not claiming that this is not enough)
> 
> I've seen a lot of claims for "stable" and "optimised" water, but no real definitions, which is kind of a bummer.
> 
> T.


Lowering the alkalinity is optimising the water for boilers (helps with brewed too but a much wider scope than boiler water).

Don't know what "stable" could allude to.


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> Lowering the alkalinity is optimising the water for boilers (helps with brewed too but a much wider scope than boiler water).
> 
> Don't know what "stable" could allude to.


That's done by dropping bicarb, am I right?

T.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> That's done by dropping bicarb, am I right?
> 
> T.


Yes, "alkalinity" (as CaCO3) is the bicarbonate, as maybe quoted on a bottle of mineral water, *0.82.

Also known as 'temporary hardness', or 'buffer' & is known to flatten acidity in beverages.


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> Yes, "alkalinity" (as CaCO3) is the bicarbonate, as maybe quoted on a bottle of mineral water, *0.82.
> 
> Also known as 'temporary hardness', or 'buffer' & is known to flatten acidity in beverages.


Slightly offtopic perhaps but how do you test bicarb levels in water? I've got an Osmio Zero and that usually needs bicarb added to get to a reasonable level.

T.


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## MWJB

dsc said:


> Slightly offtopic perhaps but how do you test bicarb levels in water? I've got an Osmio Zero and that usually needs bicarb added to get to a reasonable level.
> 
> T.


A KH drop kit (they read in CaCO3 to +/-8 or 9mg/L). You can find them on Amazon, maybe pet/aquarium stores. You can get kits that do total hardness (GH) too.

If you can't measure, how do you know how much to add, or what's a reasonable level?

Or get a water report from the local authority & cut that with the RO?


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> A KH drop kit (they read in CaCO3 to +/-8 or 9mg/L). You can find them on Amazon, maybe pet/aquarium stores. You can get kits that do total hardness (GH) too.
> 
> If you can't measure, how do you know how much to add, or what's a reasonable level?
> 
> Or get a water report from the local authority & cut that with the RO?


I've got an electronic TDS and PH meter, but need to get a drop kit tester. The bicarb addition was based on DaveC's recommendation as he also has a Zero unit. It was a tiny amount though, 0.12g per litre which is really hard to measure out without an uber precise lab scale...

T.


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## Rob1

By my calculations 0.12g per litre is 71.44mg/l Alkalinity (in pure water).


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## DavecUK

dsc said:


> I've got an electronic TDS and PH meter, but need to get a drop kit tester. The bicarb addition was based on DaveC's recommendation as he also has a Zero unit. It was a tiny amount though, 0.12g per litre which is really hard to measure out without an uber precise lab scale...
> 
> T.


Use a business card strip 5mm wide, bend the bottom 5mm up to form a scoop, and that's about it.


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## Power Freak

MWJB said:


> A KH drop kit (they read in CaCO3 to +/-8 or 9mg/L). You can find them on Amazon, maybe pet/aquarium stores. You can get kits that do total hardness (GH) too.


You can "hack" these drop kits to give a higher resolution by increasing the amount of water used in the test - so if they say add 5ml water and each drop is 8mg/L then you can use 10ml water so each drop is 4mg/L. This is particularly useful for coffee brewing waters where you typically only need a few drops of the test solution.

And FWIW after some testing I don't seem to require additional bicarb with my osmio - it comes out fairly good as is but my tap water is very high in bicarb.

For measuring out small amounts of powders I use a jewelers scale (0.001g resolution) and a 0.15cc pharmaceutical spoon (sometimes called 1/33tsp spoon - check around ebay for them they cost very little)


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## DavecUK

The other very simple way if you don't have accurate scales, is simply predissolve the bicarb in water... e.g. 0.5g in 20 ml, then dose it out using a 5ml spoon....you get the idea. Then keep the rest in a container in the fridge ready for the next use.

you really don't need accurate, expensive or complicated equipment, unless you want a new set of toys.


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## Power Freak

DavecUK said:


> The other very simple way if you don't have accurate scales, is simply predissolve the bicarb in water... e.g. 0.5g in 20 ml, then dose it out using a 5ml spoon....you get the idea. Then keep the rest in a container in the fridge ready for the next use.
> 
> you really don't need accurate, expensive or complicated equipment, unless you want a new set of toys.


Or use the 0.15cc scoop (or whatever small dosing implement you construct) - measure out say 50 scoops, take the weight and divide by 50 to get an average weight per scoop and dose that way. If you don't like the idea of keeping water standing for any period of time.


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## MildredM

Peak Water Update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522120647/peak-water-coffee-brewing-elevated


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## Jony

This as been shockingly slow process.


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## the_partisan

This and also Steepshot  I think they both realize it's not so easy to manufacture a product without scratch with no prior experience.


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## ashcroc

Jony said:


> This as been shockingly slow process.


That's what happens when you scrap your initial design & effectively start over with what you've learnt along the way. I don't mind the delay so long as a better product materialises. Fingers crossed it'll cope with London water.


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## jlarkin

ashcroc said:


> That's what happens when you scrap your initial design & effectively start over with what you've learnt along the way. I don't mind the delay so long as a better product materialises. Fingers crossed it'll cope with London water.﻿


 Apparently the one they had at the London coffee festival was making very tasty coffee with London water, but I didn't try it myself. It was only James Wise who said that (I think to @Scotfordif I remember correctly?)


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## Scotford

jlarkin said:


> Apparently the one they had at the London coffee festival was making very tasty coffee with London water, but I didn't try it myself. It was only James Wise who said that (I think to @Scotfordif I remember correctly?)


Yeah James made me a crazy tasty coffee with water from the hot tap in the toilets using this jug.

I'll still stick with a brita filter jug and recipe adjustments before spending the cash on it.


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## ashcroc

Just got another update. 
It's been delayed again.


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## MildredM

ashcroc said:


> Just got another update.
> It's been delayed again.


 But not for too long, not in the scheme of things


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## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> But not for too long, not in the scheme of things


I suppose a plus side is the longer we have to wait for it, the longer it'll be before we have to buy more filters.


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## dsc

Another delay? I'm down on the list of pre-orders so this of course also affects me... Anyone has details? I've not backed the Kickstarter campaign.

T.


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## ashcroc

dsc said:


> Another delay? I'm down on the list of pre-orders so this of course also affects me... Anyone has details? I've not backed the Kickstarter campaign.
> 
> T.


Only what was in the September update  about a week ago.

Haven't been asked to confirm my address yet & I got in early.


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## Coffee Fan Guy

They seem to have gone incommunicado at this stage. I have sent them messages directly and via kick-starter more than a week ago. No replies whatsoever.


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## dsc

I think their crew is in Milan, I've seen a photo (from Milan) of the jug on peakwater's IG account, so it looks real, just a huge shame they don't communicate. Also they are taking a piss out of themselves that there's so many delays - just a classic case imho of someone releasing smth for the first time and not realistically judging how long stuff takes.

T.


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## Coffee Fan Guy

dsc said:


> I think their crew is in Milan, I've seen a photo (from Milan) of the jug on peakwater's IG account, so it looks real, just a huge shame they don't communicate. Also they are taking a piss out of themselves that there's so many delays - just a classic case imho of someone releasing smth for the first time and not realistically judging how long stuff takes.
> 
> T.


 I hear you , but it is equally a pain to drive to waitrose every fortnight to buy water. Leaving the ecological argument on the side for now...

Perhaps it is time to start looking away from Peak


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## dsc

I'm late to the game, so don't really care about delays much, but I reckon people who've been following them since the start must be getting a bit miffed.

T.


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## MildredM

I'm happy to wait, I'd rather it be perfect than rushed 

I also expect it must be frustrating for them too, relying on 3rd parties and all that. But anyway, I don't think it won't be too much longer now ? ?


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## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> I'm happy to wait, I'd rather it be perfect than rushed
> I also expect it must be frustrating for them too, relying on 3rd parties and all that. But anyway, I don't think it won't be too much longer now


Same here. While I'd be overjoyed to receive it tomorrow, a well made working product is more important to me.
While crowdfunding can be a bit risky at times, the fairly regular in depth updates keep me hopeful.


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## Jony

I agree late November I reckon.


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## ashcroc

Jony said:


> I agree late November I reckon.


Which year?


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## aaronb

It's been on tour at a few trade shows over the last year.

Id rather it was done right than rushed but communication has been terrible at times (often only when people asked for an update on KS) and were now a year late with several missed deadlines. As much as I hate to say it I'm expecting another excuse in November. As for the delivery address survey (which we can expect 'in the next few weeks')......


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## Step21

My Ikawa Home was 18 months behind schedule due to various supplier quality control issues. They ended up building them here. It was a PITA waiting on it with frequent rescheduling. In the end it was worth it for the outstanding build quality.

I'm sure Peak Water will be the same.


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## ashcroc

Another update from Peak. They've sent out the survey to get backers addresses so it looks like the wait is almost over!


----------



## MildredM

ashcroc said:


> Another update from Peak. They've sent out the survey to get backers addresses so it looks like the wait is almost over!


 Yes ? ? just done the survey thingy, address update really. It feels very positive now!


----------



## Coffee Fan Guy

MildredM said:


> Yes ? ? just done the survey thingy, address update really. It feels very positive now!


 Wouldn't hold my breath. They emailed me last week saying they can even confirm shipping before year end.


----------



## MildredM

Well, another 2 or 3 months isn't any time at all


----------



## Step21

I signed up to this as a present for my son who is based in London. Little did he know it was for his birthday in 2 years time!

One thing that bothers me is that using this jug should in theory cut down on our use of plastic water bottles. But how much plastic have they gone through creating this? Lots of changes in polymers etc... Plus new plastic per new filter whether recyclable or not.

I think it's success will come down to the frequency and cost of the replacement filters.


----------



## StusBrews

Does anyone know what the latest with this is? From the November 1st update it seems they were only a couple of weeks away from starting to fulfil orders, but it's nearly the end of the month and there hasn't been a peep from them.

I completely support their reasons for delaying the delivery, but their communications via Kickstarter and Instagram has been terrible. I don't know if I'm setting my standards unreasonably high, but it is immensely frustrating that weeks go by without any indications of progress or when we can even expect another update. This is basic stakeholder management stuff!


----------



## dsc

I gave up caring months ago even though they told me it would get delivered by the end of the year. I agree it's a bit ridiculous, instead of trying to match unrealistic deadlines they set themselves, it would be much easier if they tripled their estimates, added 3 months to that just for some extra lee way and then communicated that.

T.


----------



## ashcroc

StusBrews said:


> Does anyone know what the latest with this is? From the November 1st update it seems they were only a couple of weeks away from starting to fulfil orders, but it's nearly the end of the month and there hasn't been a peep from them.
> 
> I completely support their reasons for delaying the delivery, but their communications via Kickstarter and Instagram has been terrible. I don't know if I'm setting my standards unreasonably high, but it is immensely frustrating that weeks go by without any indications of progress or when we can even expect another update. This is basic stakeholder management stuff!


Well they've taken the step to get people's delivery addresses so I can't see it being too much longer.


----------



## dsc

ashcroc said:


> Well they've taken the step to get people's delivery addresses so I can't see it being too much longer.


----------



## Jony

dsc said:


> I gave up caring months ago even though they told me it would get delivered by the end of the year. I agree it's a bit ridiculous, instead of trying to match unrealistic deadlines they set themselves, it would be much easier if they tripled their estimates, added 3 months to that just for some extra lee way and then communicated that.
> 
> T.


 Me too I don't even want it now might gift it someone


----------



## ashcroc

Jony said:


> Me too I don't even want it now might gift it someone


Or throw it up in the classifieds. Someone who didn't back it will want one.


----------



## Coffee Fan Guy

Jony said:


> Me too I don't even want it now might gift it someone


 I'll take it (or rather take a chance on it).

Waitrose is quite far from where I live


----------



## J_Fo

ashcroc said:


> StusBrews said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what the latest with this is? From the November 1st update it seems they were only a couple of weeks away from starting to fulfil orders, but it's nearly the end of the month and there hasn't been a peep from them.
> 
> I completely support their reasons for delaying the delivery, but their communications via Kickstarter and Instagram has been terrible. I don't know if I'm setting my standards unreasonably high, but it is immensely frustrating that weeks go by without any indications of progress or when we can even expect another update. This is basic stakeholder management stuff!
> 
> 
> 
> Well they've taken the step to get people's delivery addresses so I can't see it being too much longer.
Click to expand...

 Did you get contacted by them @ashcroc ? I'm still waiting to hear...


----------



## Step21

Jon_Foster said:


> Did you get contacted by them @ashcroc ? I'm still waiting to hear...


 I got a Kickstarter survey email on November 1st asking for address details.


----------



## ashcroc

Jon_Foster said:


> Did you get contacted by them @ashcroc ? I'm still waiting to hear...


Yeah. Got an email from Kickstarter to a 'survey' for putting in my address on 1/11.
Maybe check if it went into your spam folder?


----------



## J_Fo

Step21 said:


> I got a Kickstarter survey email on November 1st asking for address details.





ashcroc said:


> Yeah. Got an email from Kickstarter to a 'survey' for putting in my address on 1/11.
> Maybe check if it went into your spam folder?


 Thanks chaps, I'll check


----------



## StusBrews

dsc said:


> I gave up caring months ago even though they told me it would get delivered by the end of the year. I agree it's a bit ridiculous, instead of trying to match unrealistic deadlines they set themselves, it would be much easier if they tripled their estimates, added 3 months to that just for some extra lee way and then communicated that.
> 
> T.


 I am glad that I'm not that only one who feels this has been managed very poorly.

I get that they might not want to flood Kickstarter with lots of small updates, but Instagram is the perfect platform to engage with all their backers and people that have pre-ordered to drip feed a bit more content. I'd love to see something along the lines of those guys posting up a picture of all the polymers arriving, being assembled and tested. That would at least give an indication that everything is still progressing as planned.


----------



## DavecUK

I would guess after a while and plenty of unseen hurdles, crowdfunding project owners get quite wary of posting updates....not an ideal situation but a common issue. It's this (justifiable) fear of over promising and under delivering...plus the reputational damage that can do.


----------



## the_partisan

Delayed to January 2020.


----------



## ashcroc

It has a long, long way to go to beat Star Citizen.


----------



## aaronb

Quelle surprise.

January at the *earliest*. That's if they ship then at all - we're now over a year late and it's always - "next month guys!!!". Realistically it isn't happening in January.


----------



## HBLP

Tbh i don't like them patronising explaining how production works in every update. We get it, why didn't you get it long ago. Make some kind of schedule then times all the timings by 3 because that's the reality with most complex things in life.


----------



## aaronb

HBLP said:


> Tbh i don't like them patronising explaining how production works in every update. We get it, why didn't you get it long ago. Make some kind of schedule then times all the timings by 3 because that's the reality with most complex things in life.


 Agreed. I'd rather read a shorter update saying production is booked in at the factory 3rd week Jan. Completely fed up of this whole thing now. I have no doubt it will be great and worth the wait but it's ridiculous.


----------



## MildredM

Has everyone had an update today? Looks like shipping could start at the end of the month ? ?


----------



## dsc

I've seen on IG that they'll start shipping but I only have a pre-order in so not expecting anything till say June









T.


----------



## catpuccino

Keeping an eye on this as someone who didn't back anything. Though from what I understand these aren't meant to solve the problem of "too soft" water.


----------



## Step21

catpuccino said:


> Keeping an eye on this as someone who didn't back anything. Though from what I understand these aren't meant to solve the problem of "too soft" water.


 No. But I seem to remember them saying a some point it was something that they were investigating. Possibly... It all seems so long ago!


----------



## Rob1

Out of curiosity has anyone received theirs yet?


----------



## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Out of curiosity has anyone received theirs yet?


 I suspect the thread would light up like a Christmas tree if they were shipping. If people think about it, it's quite amazing that Niche were only small number of months late for an entire grinder...not a filter jug. It's very hard to manufacture and launch a new product!


----------



## Stevebee

DavecUK said:


> I suspect the thread would light up like a Christmas tree if they were shipping. If people think about it, it's quite amazing that Niche were only small number of months late for an entire grinder...not a filter jug. It's very hard to manufacture and launch a new product!


 Although it wasn't the actual grinder that was the main delay - it was a small simple stainless catch cup! (Glad they waited though as the cup is perfect)


----------



## DavecUK

Stevebee said:


> Although it wasn't the actual grinder that was the main delay - it was a small simple stainless catch cup! (Glad they waited though as the cup is perfect)


 Very true... Shows how the little things can get you.


----------



## dsc

DavecUK said:


> I suspect the thread would light up like a Christmas tree if they were shipping. If people think about it, it's quite amazing that Niche were only small number of months late for an entire grinder...not a filter jug. It's very hard to manufacture and launch a new product!


Imho there's a huge difference between designing a fairly simple mechanical device, very similar to existing devices on the market and releasing a product which no one else has yet made which requires custom made filtering materials.

T.


----------



## MWJB

dsc said:


> Imho there's a huge difference between designing a fairly simple mechanical device, very similar to existing devices on the market and releasing a product which no one else has yet made which requires custom made filtering materials.
> 
> T.


 Doesn't it work on a gate principle, letting more water bypass the filter for source water lower in alkalinity? E.g. the customisability (is that a word?) comes from the mechanical aspect?


----------



## dsc

I think it required some funky resins to be made, fairly sure it's material based as well, check their IG reply to my question why the hell it's taking so long.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

dsc said:


> Imho there's a huge difference between designing a fairly simple mechanical device, very similar to existing devices on the market and releasing a product which no one else has yet made which requires custom made filtering materials.


 It's a very interesting view, I must admit I hadn't really looked at it that way before, or realised just how unique the filter jug was. Hopefully he will reap the rewards of this type of innovation.

Especially the invention and production of resins and new filter materials....that sort of stuff is hard.


----------



## dsc

Info directly from peak: in a couple of weeks Kickstarter orders will start shipping which should take around 6-8 weeks to process, then onto pre-orders.

I'm a pre-order, so I reckon won't see anything till end of April / beginning of May.

T.


----------



## 9719

dsc said:


> Info directly from peak: in a couple of weeks Kickstarter orders will start shipping which should take around 6-8 weeks to process, then onto pre-orders.
> 
> I'm a pre-order, so I reckon won't see anything till end of April / beginning of May.
> 
> T.


 If were lucky


----------



## Jony

First batch of 18 me. but don't care now?


----------



## 9719

Jony said:


> First batch of 18 me. but don't care now


Does that mean I can have first dibs on your Osmio


----------



## the_partisan

Supposedly these are shipping now? Has anyone received?


----------



## Jony

Nope


----------



## StusBrews

Anyone got theirs yet? I'm still waiting...


----------



## ashcroc

Not me & if they send in backer order, I should be one of the first.


----------



## StusBrews

Oh damn, that's disappointing...sorry to hear. They must have a different strategy on fulfilling orders rather than doing it in backer order.

I'm finding the whole (lack of) expectation management very frustrating and nebulous ?


----------



## Jony

I was in the first18


----------



## DavecUK

StusBrews said:


> Oh damn, that's disappointing...sorry to hear. They must have a different strategy on fulfilling orders rather than doing it in backer order. ?


 It could be reverse alphabetical, or even reverse order, or by county. Perhaps alphabetically by county so Aaron from Bedfordshire is probably enjoying his filter jug as we speak.


----------



## ashcroc

DavecUK said:


> It could be reverse alphabetical, or even reverse order, or by county. Perhaps alphabetically by county so Aaron from Bedfordshire is probably enjoying his filter jug as we speak.


Or it could be the order that people filled in the address survey. Not heard of anybody receiving theirs yet.


----------



## StusBrews

DavecUK said:


> It could be reverse alphabetical, or even reverse order, or by county. Perhaps alphabetically by county so Aaron from Bedfordshire is probably enjoying his filter jug as we speak.


 Haha...all valid possibilities.

@ashcroc I pretty much completed my surgery within 10 mins of receiving it.

I'm thinking they're probably doing it in pledge size order. Biggest backers in monetary value get theirs first.


----------



## ashcroc

StusBrews said:


> Haha...all valid possibilities.
> @ashcroc I pretty much completed my surgery within 10 mins of receiving it.
> I'm thinking they're probably doing it in pledge size order. Biggest backers in monetary value get theirs first.


Well that'd suck since the early bird backers got the biggest discounts for in the first 3 days.


----------



## aaronb

Nothing here and I'm number ninety something. They have reposted a few instagram stories of people receiving theirs.

I wondered if it was to do with order size too, I had one of the early bird deals with 2 years of filters.


----------



## StusBrews

aaronb said:


> Nothing here and I'm number ninety something. They have reposted a few instagram stories of people receiving theirs.
> 
> I wondered if it was to do with order size too, I had one of the early bird deals with 2 years of filters.


 I think it is mostly filled in order size too. It would make sense that they would reward first those who pledged the most money


----------



## ashcroc

StusBrews said:


> I think it is mostly filled in order size too. It would make sense that they would reward first those who pledged the most money


First backed, first served would be fairer if you ask me.


----------



## aaronb

StusBrews said:


> I think it is mostly filled in order size too. It would make sense that they would reward first those who pledged the most money


 Mine would have been one of the larger orders in that case, and I've got and heard nothing.


----------



## Phil104

Nope - I'm still waiting - it seems a very long time (nearly two years in fact) since I saw them demoed at the London Coffee Festival. My perspective is that it will arrive when it arrives and I know it will.


----------



## johnbudding

I'm starting to wonder if they've actually sent that (m)any out. The only Instagram post they have shared from anyone receiving it is from an 'advisor to Colonna' person with one post, and I can't find any mentions on Twitter (other than the same Instagram user).


----------



## aaronb

johnbudding said:


> I'm starting to wonder if they've actually sent that (m)any out. The only Instagram post they have shared from anyone receiving it is from an 'advisor to Colonna' person with one post, and I can't find any mentions on Twitter (other than the same Instagram user).


 Likewise.


----------



## Jony

No way have they sent them out for sure.


----------



## StusBrews

johnbudding said:


> I'm starting to wonder if they've actually sent that (m)any out. The only Instagram post they have shared from anyone receiving it is from an 'advisor to Colonna' person with one post, and I can't find any mentions on Twitter (other than the same Instagram user).


 I noticed on one IG post of them filling up a delivery van that it seemed they'd packaged a few into one box. Could it be a case that those who pledged for large quantities of jugs (e.g. cafes who will resell like La Cabra) are getting the first batch followed by those who pledged for a single jug?

The wait is killing me as the local place I get RO water shut at the end of last year. Bottled water is expensive and wasteful!


----------



## johnbudding

StusBrews said:


> I noticed on one IG post of them filling up a delivery van that it seemed they'd packaged a few into one box. Could it be a case that those who pledged for large quantities of jugs (e.g. cafes who will resell like La Cabra) are getting the first batch followed by those who pledged for a single jug?
> 
> The wait is killing me as the local place I get RO water shut at the end of last year. Bottled water is expensive and wasteful!


 Someone was telling me the other day that the DHL image had been shared a few days before elsewhere, but not relating to Peak being shipped out. Who knows!


----------



## Jony

I messaged him a few lines of my writing. backers can contact me so I did?


----------



## Aidy

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/522120647/peak-water-coffee-brewing-elevated/posts/2750259?comment=Q29tbWVudC0yNzI3MzQxNA%3D%3D&reply=Q29tbWVudC0yNzI3ODg1Nw%3D%3D

The suggestion is backer order.

When they claim to have started shipping over two weeks ago, you'd have expected at least a few people to have piped up to say they've received them.


----------



## Jony

I smell something.


----------



## HBLP

So far it's feeling like they're actually lying about this. Max himself said "Hi Sebastiaan, You were backer number 1167. I am afraid that we are working through the orders and you will receive a confirmation e-mail when the product has been dispatched. Thanks Sebastian!"

So if someone here is backer number 18 or whatever it was, they absolutely should have at least received a confirmation email that the product has been dispatched.


----------



## Jony

I am 80 if you like to know.


----------



## Aidy

I don't really mind the "Oh, we've encountered some problems and that's pushing our timelines out" updates.

The updates that are "we're totally definitely shipping next week" which don't materialise are kinda frustrating.


----------



## aaronb

Still nothing.

I see James Hoffmann got his though.


----------



## Jony

Special isn't he haha


----------



## aaronb

Jony said:


> Special isn't he haha


 I actually really like James, he comes across as quite down to earth and his youtube content is interesting.

Conversely I have no respect at all anymore for MCD after this farse. Not so much the delay (although that is part of it) more the way it's been handled and continues to be handled.


----------



## Jony

I actually agree with you, it's been a joke really


----------



## Colio07

I respect his desire to enable good water for coffee, but the PR has been pretty poor! I'm actually very surprised at how long the fulfilment has taken given that Colonna seem to run an effective subscription service across beans and capsules. But hey ho, I'm sure the water will be good once the Peaks actually get to their backers!


----------



## DavecUK

Having had some involvement with a project that ultimately went to crowdfunding, I know someone said they thought it was a much easier project than a filter jug (not that I really agree). *Any* crowd funded project is difficult. Often it's the little things that get you...they come right out of left field and are things you wouldn't have been worried about at all. The things that are done, sorted, locked down and good to go....come back and bite you. It might be as simple as a handle, or the fit of a part, perhaps simple finishing on production tooling.

When a company either already has "significant" investment in time and money, or is an established existing business...they have both losses or reputation to consider. MCD has an existing business, to get this wrong is going might reflect badly on it (or that's often the worry). So they close in, pull the wagons round in a circle, go dark, send out carefully crafted messages. Whilst like a swan, the legs are moving frantically beneath. They want to work the problem preventing them delivering, not possibly make it worse with communications taken the wrong way. Sometimes, unintentionally they go too far down this road....

You guys I'm sure will get the jugs when you get them...hopefully the sizzle will match the sausage when they arrive.


----------



## J_Fo

aaronb said:


> Still nothing.
> 
> I see James Hoffmann got his though.


 

How do you know? Is there a review or something?


----------



## the_partisan

Maxwell was at the Danish Coffee Festival, demoing the peak water at La Cabra booth:










I got to chat with him a little and he said they started shipping, and apparently the production of the filters become a bottleneck since quite a few people ordered many filters (i.e. 20). They were doing a side by side tasting of CPH tap water (450-500ppm) vs Peak Water at max setting.


----------



## aaronb

Jon_Foster said:


> How do you know? Is there a review or something?


 It was on his Insta story. Review coming.


----------



## J_Fo

aaronb said:


> It was on his Insta story. Review coming.


 Aah nice one man, cheers


----------



## the_partisan

also, from my discussions with him and with a guy who works for Everpure, the resin is pretty much same/similar to what's in Claris Prime filters.


----------



## DavecUK

the_partisan said:


> also, from my discussions with him and with a guy who works for Everpure, the resin is pretty much same/similar to what's in Claris Prime filters.


 I don't think that can be right....I made the mistake of assuming he would have used proven resins already on the market...however it seemed that I was not correct.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/40693-peak-water-from-mcd/page/6/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=716392&embedComment=716392&embedDo=findComment#comment-716392


----------



## StusBrews

the_partisan said:


> Maxwell was at the Danish Coffee Festival, demoing the peak water at La Cabra booth:
> 
> 
> 
> I got to chat with him a little and he said they started shipping, and apparently the production of the filters become a bottleneck since quite a few people ordered many filters (i.e. 20). They were doing a side by side tasting of CPH tap water (450-500ppm) vs Peak Water at max setting.


 @the_partisan - any feedback you can on the taste experience?


----------



## Jony

And a Bentwood Grinder I m sure of it. Actually could be a ZM haha


----------



## the_partisan

DavecUK said:


> I don't think that can be right....I made the mistake of assuming he would have used proven resins already on the market...however it seemed that I was not correct.
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/40693-peak-water-from-mcd/page/6/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=716392&embedComment=716392&embedDo=findComment#comment-716392


 I don't know if it's exactly same, but the Everpure guy (Ronny Billemon) said it uses similar tech.

Regarding the taste experience, it was more or less what you'd expect. It was a Brazilian natural (maybe not the best showcase for this water) and it tasted much brighter with the filtered water.


----------



## jlarkin

the_partisan said:


> I got to chat with him a little and he said they started shipping, and apparently the production of the filters become a bottleneck since quite a few people ordered many filters (i.e. 20).


 I can nearly understand that, though you'd think the only advantage of taking so long to actually produce it, after crowdfunding, should have been plenty of time to foresee that?


----------



## ashcroc

jlarkin said:


> I can nearly understand that, though you'd think the only advantage of taking so long to actually produce it, after crowdfunding, should have been plenty of time to foresee that?


When one of the delays is a complete redesign of the filter, avoiding a bottleneck would be more difficult. It's a pity they didn't decide to send the jugs out with 1 filter to get them out to the backers with any extras ordered following after.


----------



## jlarkin

ashcroc said:


> jlarkin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can nearly understand that, though you'd think the only advantage of taking so long to actually produce it, after crowdfunding, should have been plenty of time to foresee that?
> 
> 
> 
> When one of the delays is a complete redesign of the filter, avoiding a bottleneck would be more difficult. It's a pity they didn't decide to send the jugs out with 1 filter to get them out to the backers with any extras ordered following after.
Click to expand...

 Yes I'm more talking of them flagging it or managing it as you say - with some variant like that. It presumably wasn't only noticed when they started sending them.


----------



## BadDad

Number 401 here, survey completed in November but no sign yet. I'm still really looking forward to this, cost is minimal and I'm used to crowdfunding projects badly overrunning (also waiting on 2 others at the moment)


----------



## Jony

Came on 26th


----------



## StusBrews

Jony said:


> Came on 26th
> 
> View attachment 36841


 I don't believe it.

Do you mean it came on 26th March this year and you're actually a time traveller from the future?


----------



## Jony

February been sat in depot since then?


----------



## ashcroc

Jony said:


> February been sat in depot since then


Had you received a dispatch notification email as promised? My spot in the queue wasn't too far from yours & it's got me wondering.


----------



## Jony

Not sure I just deleted stuff without reading?


----------



## J_Fo

ashcroc said:


> Jony said:
> 
> 
> 
> February been sat in depot since then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had you received a dispatch notification email as promised? My spot in the queue wasn't too far from yours & it's got me wondering.
Click to expand...

 I'm backer number 168, nothing through as yet... Surely can't be long now... What number were you man?


----------



## Jony

80


----------



## DavecUK

Jony said:


> 80


 Sell yours quick, scarcity might make it worth much more than you paid.


----------



## J_Fo

Jony said:


> 80


 Cheers dude


----------



## Jony

DavecUK said:


> Sell yours quick, scarcity might make it worth much more than you paid.


 Might just do that any takers haha


----------



## TomHughes

What is this doing to the water mineral wise?

How does this fit with the idea of using different water to accentuate different coffee flavours?


----------



## MWJB

TomHughes said:


> What is this doing to the water mineral wise?
> 
> How does this fit with the idea of using different water to accentuate different coffee flavours?


 It tunes your alkalinity/KH.


----------



## TomHughes

MWJB said:


> It tunes your alkalinity/KH.


 To what though? Have they decided on a preset ideal coffee water?


----------



## MWJB

TomHughes said:


> To what though? Have they decided on a preset ideal coffee water?


 It's adjustable by the dial on top, I think you're supposed to check the KH of raw tap water then set the dial to increase/decrease filtration effect.


----------



## Alex_L

I'm backer 806 so looks like I have quite a while to wait. Given I'm probably about to buy an osmio zero, it might be a bit redundant when it does arrive.


----------



## DavecUK

Alex_L said:


> I'm backer 806 so looks like I have quite a while to wait. Given I'm probably about to buy an osmio zero, it might be a bit redundant when it does arrive.


 I imagine people will be quite stoked with peak when it first arrives. Could be an easy unused sale.


----------



## Alex_L

DavecUK said:


> I imagine people will be quite stoked with peak when it first arrives. Could be an easy unused sale.


 I was thinking that but I know when it turns up I won't be able to resist opening it ?‍♂

Has anyone seen any actual reviews of it yet?


----------



## Jony

Still sat on the floor unopened?


----------



## DavecUK

Alex_L said:


> I was thinking that but I know when it turns up I won't be able to resist opening it ?‍♂
> 
> Has anyone seen any actual reviews of it yet?


 I'm sure you will get some reviews from users on here....I can't imagine people went for it with no reviews at all, there must be something on the internet that you missed?


----------



## StusBrews

A review has gone up on James Hoffmann's YouTube


----------



## HBLP

DavecUK said:


> I'm sure you will get some reviews from users on here....I can't imagine people went for it with no reviews at all, there must be something on the internet that you missed?


 It's a kickstarter, of course people went for it with no reviews 

I think people are counting on MCD's commitment to good tasting water for coffee and his expertise in that regard, and taking a gamble on it as one does with any kickstarter.


----------



## TomHughes

Can you still back this and get in on it or is a missed boat, I've never dealt with kickstarter before


----------



## DavecUK

HBLP said:


> It's a kickstarter, of course people went for it with no reviews
> 
> I think people are counting on MCD's commitment to good tasting water for coffee and his expertise in that regard, and taking a gamble on it as one does with any kickstarter.


 I understand the tongue out is mocking my comment but it's not always the case that kickstarter type projects don't always have reviews from testers of prototypes as the product develops. There is absolutely no reason why during the last 2 years people couldn't have been exposed to the output of a filter jug and given a review. I believe it was a reasonable comment for me to make.

Certainly many kickstarter project should be encouraged to actually expose the prototype to people if they have one before starting a campaign, so they can comment. I would imagine with peak water they had to go through resin tests, and other filtration tests before they even started the kickstarter campaign to see if there was any improvement and effect on the coffee. Absolutely no reason why an independent view could not have been sought. I think beta products have been in the hands of a few people for a while now?


----------



## TomHughes

Just watched the video, are these the strips they use?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/API-5-1-Test-Kit-Aquarium-Fish-Tank-GH-KH-PH-Nitrite-Nitrate-Strip-Ammonia-/361907997397?var=

Seem to underestimate. 
Could this be used to test pre and post water @MWJB? 
The GH/KH test kits seem very expensive for just one use.


----------



## Alex_L

I backed it on a whim. I've ended up backing quite a few kickstarters over the years. Most have delivered and only 1 has completely failed. None have delivered on time is the consistent theme.

I do now stay away from anything involving internet connectivity or a web service as those always seem particularly risky.


----------



## MWJB

TomHughes said:


> Just watched the video, are these the strips they use?
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/API-5-1-Test-Kit-Aquarium-Fish-Tank-GH-KH-PH-Nitrite-Nitrate-Strip-Ammonia-/361907997397?var=
> 
> Seem to underestimate.
> Could this be used to test pre and post water @MWJB?
> The GH/KH test kits seem very expensive for just one use.


 Not used strips myself.


----------



## TomHughes

MWJB said:


> Not used strips myself.


 No worries,

Interestingly the TDS of work water is 60ppm (compared to 290 at home) 
It would be interesting to know the constituents as Yorkshire Water don't publish HCO3, of that I can find. 
I think this is also filtered as the water in this area is supposed to be around 120.

So I am currently taking a litre of work water home with me each day, which is tough on a very hilly 2 hour bike ride home!


----------



## StusBrews

I was just listening to Sum 41 - Still Waiting, which reminded me to check in here to see if anyone has received/used theirs yet and had any feedback.

I'm still waiting for mine and had no email yet .


----------



## GlennV

Backer no 58 here - no sign of it yet.


----------



## Jony

I must be special ?


----------



## DavecUK

Jony said:


> I must be special ?


 The real laugh is you don't actually need it.


----------



## Jony

I know it's still sealed and boxed on floor haha


----------



## Jony

DavecUK said:


> The real laugh is you don't actually need it.


----------



## StusBrews

Jony said:


> View attachment 36962


 This is deeply depressing as I really need mine!

Fancy sending me yours and I'll send mine back to you when it eventually comes? ?


----------



## jlarkin

DavecUK said:


> I understand the tongue out is mocking my comment but it's not always the case that kickstarter type projects don't always have reviews from testers of prototypes as the product develops. There is absolutely no reason why during the last 2 years people couldn't have been exposed to the output of a filter jug and given a review. I believe it was a reasonable comment for me to make.
> 
> Certainly many kickstarter project should be encouraged to actually expose the prototype to people if they have one before starting a campaign, so they can comment. I would imagine with peak water they had to go through resin tests, and other filtration tests before they even started the kickstarter campaign to see if there was any improvement and effect on the coffee. Absolutely no reason why an independent view could not have been sought. I think beta products have been in the hands of a few people for a while now?


 @Scotfordtried a brew with some of it's output at the LCF last year - water from the toilet (sink in the toilet anyway) with a brew. It was around at LCF though I missed it and it's been popping up in different places over time.


----------



## Scotford

jlarkin said:


> @Scotfordtried a brew with some of it's output at the LCF last year - water from the toilet (sink in the toilet anyway) with a brew. It was around at LCF though I missed it and it's been popping up in different places over time.


Yeah. I'm not in a place to be posting detailed reviews about it, but it made some great brews a year ago. Be that due to the hands it was in or not, that's up to others to decide.

Not sure why people are so desperate for a water jug if I'm honest. It's way overrun on projected timelines, does essentially the same as many other products on the market that cost a fraction of the price and is quite frankly, another revenue stream that PACED group don't really need.


----------



## StusBrews

Scotford said:


> Yeah. I'm not in a place to be posting detailed reviews about it, but it made some great brews a year ago. Be that due to the hands it was in or not, that's up to others to decide.
> 
> Not sure why people are so desperate for a water jug if I'm honest. It's way overrun on projected timelines, does essentially the same as many other products on the market that cost a fraction of the price and is quite frankly, another revenue stream that PACED group don't really need.


 @Scotford - what other products are on the market you'd recommend and compete with Peak?


----------



## Aidy

Scotford said:


> Not sure why people are so desperate for a water jug if I'm honest. It's way overrun on projected timelines, does essentially the same as many other products on the market that cost a fraction of the price and is quite frankly, another revenue stream that PACED group don't really need.


 It's not really desperate, I actually probably won't use mine now.

It's just frustrating that they can't decide when they'll ship ("We're going to ship in November. No, January. Definitely January. Actually, first week of February. Totally by the end of February. By the end of March, really, seriously this time) - I'm.... complicated, and having things delivered "at some point" is awkward.


----------



## aaronb

Surely the whole point is it isn't in any way comparable to jugs on the market at the time it launched back in 2018? If it was the same as a Brita or my Aqua Optima I wouldn't have bothered.

And totally agree with Aidy - "we're running late guys but totally next month, i'll be jetting around the world with prototypes showing them off at shows!!!!" wore thin about 12 months ago. Even now we're no closer to a REAL shipping date, 2 production runs allegedly scheduled and everyone is supposed to have them by the end of the month but based on the previous track record I dont expect anything. At least one real backer on here has one and it isn't just James Hoffman and an adviser to Maxwell.


----------



## ashcroc

Just got an email notification telling me my jug is on it's way. Will be interesting to see how it performs with the liquid chalk I get out of my taps!


----------



## Jony

Mine must be quite rare around these parts?


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Peak v other water filters


----------



## aaronb

Still nothing for me.


----------



## Colio07

Same - still waiting. My Kickstarter number 800-something...


----------



## ashcroc

Mine arrived yesterday! Yet to unpack it but since we're now in lockdown I forsee alot more coffee drinking at home.


----------



## MildredM

Mine is on the way ???


----------



## J_Fo

Mine on the way as well! Probably a bit redundant now I have the Osmio...


----------



## fluffles

Did anyone else order the the peak with a bundle of spare filters? My peak arrived, but no sign of the additional filters


----------



## J_Fo

fluffles said:


> Did anyone else order the the peak with a bundle of spare filters? My peak arrived, but no sign of the additional filters


 I ordered the same, I've just got mine but not opened it yet as I'm thinking of selling it on... I'll let you know if I do though


----------



## aaronb

fluffles said:


> Did anyone else order the the peak with a bundle of spare filters? My peak arrived, but no sign of the additional filters


 Yes. No peak, or filters. Im backer 80 something.


----------



## the_partisan

#603 here and still waiting.


----------



## Aidy

I'm sure they'll all be delivered by tomorrow, as promised in the last update...


----------



## aaronb

Whilst I appreciate the latest few updates and that they are still dispatching in these times, they're still ignoring any questions levelled at them except a certain type and have left it really late to give an update.



> The first 200 backers have now been fulfilled.


 Of over 1000..... When it was meant to be end of this month.

Clearly not in order either as I'm #98 and have nothing.

Again some more frequent and honest updates would be nice. Clearly coronavirus has the potential to halt everything and that's fine, just fedup of periods of silence.


----------



## Jony

Not good. I was 80


----------



## Aidy

aaronb said:


> Of over 1000..... When it was meant to be end of this month.


 But totally definitely by the end of *this* month, right?


----------



## aaronb

So I sent an email last night and today got an email back (different chain) asking for my address. Apparently some got lost in the import.

Mine is dispatched.


----------



## Phil104

Well, mine is on its way. I am backer #236.


----------



## aaronb

And it arrived about 11:00 today via the postie










I had kind of given up hope but its a great time for it to come due to WFH my bottled water usage has shot up. Initial impressions are that the lid isn't quite flush with the jug and the knob was detached, I can live with the lid issue and using the diagrams in the manual managed to get the knob in what I think is the correct 'home' position. The water test placed me at a position 4 (140 IIRC) - honestly thought id be at 5/max as we have very hard water here.

I've pumped some through the L1 but dont want to overload the pump too much so suspect next few days will be a water transition phase.

Whilst I've been critical of how the delays were handled I am appreciative of the fact they're doing their best to get these out in these dark times.


----------



## malling

Wau I thought it never would arrive.


----------



## MildredM

Used mine for a couple of weeks now. Some niggles. Not overly happy with the little lid over the spout which sometimes fails to open thus creating a 'flare' of water which in turn goes over the edges of the tank when topping up. The whole top lid assembly itself doesn't seat as well as I would have liked. It doesn't fit my fridge door (I think it was mentioned it would).

I will been monitoring its effectiveness.

Plus point, it is slim and nicely balanced. It is going to save on waste plastic. Being an early bird it was cheap and overall I'm glad I went for it.


----------



## MWJB

MildredM said:


> Used mine for a couple of weeks now. Some niggles. Not overly happy with the little lid over the spout which sometimes fails to open thus creating a 'flare' of water which in turn goes over the edges of the tank when topping up. The whole top lid assembly itself doesn't seat as well as I would have liked. It doesn't fit my fridge door (I think it was mentioned it would).
> 
> I will been monitoring its effectiveness.
> 
> Plus point, it is slim and nicely balanced. It is going to save on waste plastic. Being an early bird it was cheap and overall I'm glad I went for it.


 What is its capacity & how long does it take to filter that?


----------



## MildredM

MWJB said:


> What is its capacity & how long does it take to filter that?


 It's about 1.2ltrs and takes less than 5 minutes (I haven't timed it).


----------



## malling

MildredM said:


> It's about 1.2ltrs and takes less than 5 minutes (I haven't timed it).


Positive that it doesn't take longer than that.

A clear improvement over older solution where you literately could wait 15min.

1.2l capacity is fine, thats what I use on a single day.


----------



## aaronb

Interesting that others have the lid issue too.

It's 1.2L and according to the manual takes 3-4 minutes on setting 4 - the lower the setting the faster it is I suspect.

The bypass system is so simple I am impressed. I did wonder / hope that the bypassed water still receives some filtration to prevent any scale getting into the water, it looks like there is something in there and it isn't a straight through hole so assume so.

Initial impressions were a brighter cup with a more minerally taste, in a good way. Espresso was still fine at the point it was dialled in but it was slower through the chemex, might have to dial back a notch.


----------



## Phil104

And mine has arrived too, thanks postie, and the user experience on this thread.


----------



## aaronb

For the water crew is there a good source to get more test strips, or perhaps more accurate water tests?

I see them on ebay / amazon but dont really want 50 and not sure id trust their accuracy.


----------



## MildredM

aaronb said:


> For the water crew is there a good source to get more test strips, or perhaps more accurate water tests?
> 
> I see them on ebay / amazon but dont really want 50 and not sure id trust their accuracy.


 I want some too but like you, I want reliable/rated ones.


----------



## Jony

I think anything Marine fish, should work I may be wrong.


----------



## malling

Strips from those should work, levels are quite important for the fish to thrive


----------



## aaronb

Really noticing a massive increase in brightness and clarity using the same coffees I was drinking before. Very happy so far.


----------



## the_partisan

For those who received it, what was your backer #? I've yet to receive a notification.


----------



## Jony

80.


----------



## aaronb

98


----------



## Jony

Just to anoy people I got two 1 extra by accident 😅😅😅😂🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## abs

Jony said:


> Just to anoy people I got two 1 extra by accident 😅😅😅😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> View attachment 38235


 Do you want to sell it?


----------



## Jony

I wouldn't sell it because it was free. It's been passed on already to a forum member


----------



## malling

Jony said:


> Just to anoy people I got two 1 extra by accident
> 
> <img alt="IMG_20200417_191112.thumb.jpg.524382ca5c9887821b3bcce212e235a0.jpg" data-fileid="38235" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_04/IMG_20200417_191112.thumb.jpg.524382ca5c9887821b3bcce212e235a0.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Great I guess I have to wait one day longer


----------



## Rob1

aaronb said:


> For the water crew is there a good source to get more test strips, or perhaps more accurate water tests?
> 
> I see them on ebay / amazon but dont really want 50 and not sure id trust their accuracy.


 A GH:KH test drop kit from amazon is cheap, last a while, and the resolution can be adjusted by changing the quantity of water you're adding the drops to. Strips aren't accurate enough, or at least so I read.

Not really sure what you mean by:



> hope that the bypassed water still receives some filtration to prevent any scale getting into the water, it looks like there is something in there and it isn't a straight through hole so assume so.


 Scale isn't a separate substance it's determined by balance of minerals to bicarbonates/carbonates and deposts at different rates dependent on the temperature of the water. It's not even just carbonates, you could get scale from sulphates, phosphates and silica. You're filtering the water and setting bypass rates to hit a certain alkalinity and hardness so the idea that bypassed water needs filtration doesn't make any sense because presumably the bypassed water is necessary to achieve a specific alkalinity and hardness?


----------



## aaronb

I didn't know that, I'm not very chemistry minded!

I was more concerned about scale getting into the boiler of the L1 even at a slow rate?


----------



## Jony

130 litres isn't much for filter change.


----------



## Aidy

Just had an email to say that mine has shipped


----------



## the_partisan

@Aidywhat number were you? Are they shipping one a day or something? I'm at #603, so probably a few more months to go, though it was said they would all ship by end of april.


----------



## Aidy

400 and some


----------



## Aidy

Aidy said:


> Just had an email to say that mine has shipped


 I think I spoke too soon, the email said "on its way", but on their order page it's "preparing to ship".


----------



## aaronb

Aidy said:


> I think I spoke too soon, the email said "on its way", but on their order page it's "preparing to ship".


 I think mine said that too but it turned up a couple of days later.

From instagram looks like lots are going out.


----------



## Aidy

Aidy said:


> I think I spoke too soon, the email said "on its way", but on their order page it's "preparing to ship".


 Spoke too soon about speaking too soon - got here this morning.


----------



## Gubbo89

Interested to hear of people's experience after using this for a few weeks'.


----------



## aaronb

Gubbo89 said:


> Interested to hear of people's experience after using this for a few weeks'.


 Still very happy. Lots more flavour to the coffee than Volvic. It's brighter and the notes stand out more.

I haven't experimented with tweaking the settings yet.


----------



## Gubbo89

aaronb said:


> Still very happy. Lots more flavour to the coffee than Volvic. It's brighter and the notes stand out more.
> 
> I haven't experimented with tweaking the settings yet.


 Have you gone through a cartridge yet or still on the original one?

Would be good to know performance as filter gets used and closer to end of life.


----------



## MildredM

Having had no reply from Peak (email, Insta, and FB) can anyone here point me in the direction of replacement filters?


----------



## aaronb

Gubbo89 said:


> Have you gone through a cartridge yet or still on the original one?
> 
> Would be good to know performance as filter gets used and closer to end of life.


 No, it's 2 months use per filter or a value (I think 100L)?. I tend to drink an espresso and a filter a day, so 2 months shouldn't get me near the value. I bought the KS pack with an extra 12 filters but due to coronavirus they aren't being sent yet, we've been told at least 2 by mid may and the balance in 2 more shipments later this year.

I wonder how easy it will be to notice differences in a new filter - my drinking water filter I change every 2 months an you can tell straight away but it's going to mix with the other water in the L1 boiler etc.


----------



## aaronb

MildredM said:


> Having had no reply from Peak (email, Insta, and FB) can anyone here point me in the direction of replacement filters?


 How have you gone through one already?


----------



## MildredM

aaronb said:


> How have you gone through one already?


 No, but it's coming up 4 weeks and what with some shipping taking a week or so I will soon be at 6 weeks. I hope it will last for 2 months but if I test at 6 weeks and find it needs a new filter I'd like to think I've got one here. Peak has replied to my email saying they will have filters available to buy soon, individually until they get into full production.


----------



## Gubbo89

MildredM said:


> No, but it's coming up 4 weeks and what with some shipping taking a week or so I will soon be at 6 weeks. I hope it will last for 2 months but if I test at 6 weeks and find it needs a new filter I'd like to think I've got one here. Peak has replied to my email saying they will have filters available to buy soon, individually until they get into full production.


 Any idea on the price of a replacement filter from Peak?


----------



## MildredM

Gubbo89 said:


> Any idea on the price of a replacement filter from Peak?


 £12.50 plus £3.50 postage.


----------



## Gubbo89

For anyone interested, full review and follow-up on Instagram from mat_north.

Thanks Dave @crankhouse for the recommendation.


----------



## catpuccino

Seemingly available from coffeehit now

https://coffeehit.co.uk/products/peak-water-filter


----------



## aaronb

catpuccino said:


> Seemingly available from coffeehit now
> 
> https://coffeehit.co.uk/products/peak-water-filter


 I wonder if they bought one of the high tier pledges? If you look at the KS page some people did buy 50 or 100.

The latest update last night was that almost all KS pledges are backed now. Assume it will be the preorders next.

Those of us who did the multiple filters pledge should get some more soon (was meant to be Mid May, hoping it still is). KS backers who just bought the jug will be able to order one at a time just until they have stock of them.


----------



## Neo

I just got one and i wonder if I'm being extremely daft

I can't get the lid to close without forcing it down, even then there's a good 5mm gap left?

I think the issue is that the top of the filter is bulging a bit and from what i can see of the product photos, the filters look a bit flatter

I have attached the adjuster to the hole and everything, has anyone seen this issue before?

thanks


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> Still very happy. Lots more flavour to the coffee than Volvic. It's brighter and the notes stand out more.
> 
> I haven't experimented with tweaking the settings yet.


 Mind if i ask what gh/kh target do you aim for?

I'm also using volvic atm and hopefully can sort out my lid problem soon lol

typical of my life🤣


----------



## Jony

Neo said:


> I just got one and i wonder if I'm being extremely daft
> 
> I can't get the lid to close without forcing it down, even then there's a good 5mm gap left?
> 
> I think the issue is that the top of the filter is bulging a bit and from what i can see of the product photos, the filters look a bit flatter
> 
> I have attached the adjuster to the hole and everything, has anyone seen this issue before?
> 
> thanks


 Lids shite, pulled the lip off mine and going to work out expensive, asbeck and volvic. Or just buy Osmio R. O


----------



## Jony

If people thought or think this is a cheaper option your bonkers.


----------



## Gubbo89

Jony said:


> If people thought or think this is a cheaper option your bonkers.


 I worked it out to be 4p a litre cheaper than Ashbeck (if you're getting 100 litres from Peak) but that's not factoring in the jug price.


----------



## aaronb

Neo said:


> Mind if i ask what gh/kh target do you aim for?
> 
> I'm also using volvic atm and hopefully can sort out my lid problem soon lol
> 
> typical of my life🤣


 Sorry gh/kh means nothing to me? I'm awful at chemistry. I still want some more test strips or a more accurate way of measuring.

Have you firmly pushed the filter down into the jug? It requires a good push. Then make sure the selector knob thingy lines up with the grooves.

The lid on mine is not flush with the jug at all, and like a few others the spout doesn't open like it should and requires a helping finger.

The price of replacement filters is crazy. Glad I backed the 2 years supply package.


----------



## 9719

So glad I cancelled my pre order & got a full refund...#1040ish so wouldn't be here much before Santa visit's next  I'm a very happy  Osmio user & will continue using that for all my water needs 

The lucky escapee


----------



## Jony

Gubbo89 said:


> I worked it out to be 4p a litre cheaper than Ashbeck (if you're getting 100 litres from Peak) but that's not factoring in the jug price.


 And. Long Term!!


----------



## cuprajake

The amount of money people spend on beans,machines and accessories and there fussing over a few pence for bottled water 😂

Like the car tuning scene. Has 500bhp car then use morrisons fuel as its 5p cheaper


----------



## Jony

#plastic bit late now I hate the taste of water and your a Vegan. Medium Rare for me


----------



## cuprajake

Still appreciate a steak, just choose no longer to eat it haha

Ro machines prob incorporate more waste than a recyclible bottle


----------



## the_partisan

Mine has been shipped over 2 weeks ago, but still no sign of it and no tracking number was provided.. sigh


----------



## aaronb

Cuprajake said:


> The amount of money people spend on beans,machines and accessories and there fussing over a few pence for bottled water 😂
> 
> Like the car tuning scene. Has 500bhp car then use morrisons fuel as its 5p cheaper


 Bottled water is a heavy product to carry back from the supermarket for me, and when Peak launched it looked to be better than bottled water for brewing coffee. From what I understand about the bypass it would take quite a bit of playing around to get a similar result with bottled waters. I've certainly noticed a massive improvement over the bottled water I was using.


----------



## aaronb

the_partisan said:


> Mine has been shipped over 2 weeks ago, but still no sign of it and no tracking number was provided.. sigh


 Have you reached out to them on the email that sent the shipping notification?


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> Sorry gh/kh means nothing to me? I'm awful at chemistry. I still want some more test strips or a more accurate way of measuring.
> 
> Have you firmly pushed the filter down into the jug? It requires a good push. Then make sure the selector knob thingy lines up with the grooves.
> 
> The lid on mine is not flush with the jug at all, and like a few others the spout doesn't open like it should and requires a helping finger.
> 
> The price of replacement filters is crazy. Glad I backed the 2 years supply package.


 Yeah I think it's the top of the filter bulging instead of being flat, which stops the lid from being flush...

Gonna see what peak says and give it another shove tonight


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> Bottled water is a heavy product to carry back from the supermarket for me, and when Peak launched it looked to be better than bottled water for brewing coffee. From what I understand about the bypass it would take quite a bit of playing around to get a similar result with bottled waters. I've certainly noticed a massive improvement over the bottled water I was using.


 Not feeling hauling 9kg up the hill either


----------



## the_partisan

aaronb said:


> Have you reached out to them on the email that sent the shipping notification?


 yeah, was told to wait a little more, if not contact them again. Just a little frustrated since I've been waiting for this over 2+ years.

How does Osmio Zero remineralize the water? I always found pure RO water rather harsh/unforgiving to brew with, with some coffees it works great but sometimes it becomes very unbalanced.


----------



## Neo

My lid looks like this if I push it down enough to turn the knob. Is this a feature or a bug? [IMG alt="" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG][IMG alt="" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG][IMG alt="" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG]


----------



## Neo

the_partisan said:


> yeah, was told to wait a little more, if not contact them again. Just a little frustrated since I've been waiting for this over 2+ years.
> 
> How does Osmio Zero remineralize the water? I always found pure RO water rather harsh/unforgiving to brew with, with some coffees it works great but sometimes it becomes very unbalanced.


 You can mix your own recipe after I guess?


----------



## aaronb

My lid isn't as far off as yours but if you push it flush at the back its a good few mm above the jug at the front, and if you push it at the front it goes the other way. I'm half tempted to send them a message when all the backers are fulfilled and see if they'll send a new lid but then I'm just thankfull I actually got the thing at all and I'm still due 12 filters.

Another thought but is the knob fully on its rod thing? Mine was just loose in the box and again took a good shove to get it all the way on.


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> My lid isn't as far off as yours but if you push it flush at the back its a good few mm above the jug at the front, and if you push it at the front it goes the other way. I'm half tempted to send them a message when all the backers are fulfilled and see if they'll send a new lid but then I'm just thankfull I actually got the thing at all and I'm still due 12 filters.
> 
> Another thought but is the knob fully on its rod thing? Mine was just loose in the box and again took a good shove to get it all the way on.


 The rod seems okay?

Hope they email me back tomorrow


----------



## ashcroc

Neo said:


> My lid looks like this if I push it down enough to turn the knob. Is this a feature or a bug? [IMG alt="imageproxy.php?img=&key=519b442b6d5b911704c552c73e4785bfe7687d89f5fce1d50e199c159103c672" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG][IMG alt="imageproxy.php?img=&key=519b442b6d5b911704c552c73e4785bfe7687d89f5fce1d50e199c159103c672" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG][IMG alt="imageproxy.php?img=&key=519b442b6d5b911704c552c73e4785bfe7687d89f5fce1d50e199c159103c672" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG]
> 
> <img alt="DSC_0109.thumb.JPG.6d9a8e83c51727915cc379f66ced9f6c.JPG" data-fileid="39385" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_05/DSC_0109.thumb.JPG.6d9a8e83c51727915cc379f66ced9f6c.JPG" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Mines maybe a millimeter out of whack but nowhere near that bad.

You made sure the rod is clipped into the filter correctly?


----------



## Neo

ashcroc said:


> Mines maybe a millimeter out of whack but nowhere near that bad.
> 
> You made sure the rod is clipped into the filter correctly?


 Yeah it has gone in, i can set the hardness level if i leave the lid like that

it would have been further apart if i haven't slotted it in


----------



## the_partisan

Mine finally arrived! Though I can't seem to figure out how the release/hardness dial should fit ? There doesn't seem to be any indication of what the right way up is?


----------



## the_partisan

I managed to sort it out now by first removing the filter completely, testing where it fits for release mode and then attaching the dial, though the build quality looks pretty horrible, I also have big gaps in various parts. On the good side, it does seem to work as advertised and managed to reduce TDS from 440 to 40 on setting "5". At this point though it definitely feels like an "early beta" type of product.


----------



## Neo

the_partisan said:


> I managed to sort it out now by first removing the filter completely, testing where it fits for release mode and then attaching the dial, though the build quality looks pretty horrible, I also have big gaps in various parts. On the good side, it does seem to work as advertised and managed to reduce TDS from 440 to 40 on setting "5". At this point though it definitely feels like an "early beta" type of product.


 Hi there, do you mind doing me a favour and have a quick test to see if it's my unit being problematic or me being insane?

If you could set it to HARD, life the blue liner up and fill it with some water. Is there any water coming out of the bypass hole at all? Thanks


----------



## aaronb

the_partisan said:


> Mine finally arrived! Though I can't seem to figure out how the release/hardness dial should fit ? There doesn't seem to be any indication of what the right way up is?


 Do you mean into the filter? The notches mean it will only go in one way into the circular imprint in the filter, it then spins round and the flaps over the circular imprint "lock" it in. You can see the bypass hole with the filling flap open, as you turn the knob further towards the hardest setting the bypass hole will become more covered so less gets through. It can only lock into the filter if the arrow is pointing at release. I'm not explaining this well at all but once you get your head around it the simplicity of the design is quite clever.

If you mean your dial / knob is loose in the box then mine came like this too but I don't think it's meant to. Get your head around the above and then if you get the rod lined up with the filter circular imprint thing then you can push the knob on slightly with the arrow pointing at release, spin it to check it is covering the bypass hole as described above and then when you are happy its lined up correctly push it firmly on.

Sorry, hope that makes sense when you're looking at the jug too!


----------



## the_partisan

aaronb said:


> Do you mean into the filter? The notches mean it will only go in one way into the circular imprint in the filter, it then spins round and the flaps over the circular imprint "lock" it in. You can see the bypass hole with the filling flap open, as you turn the knob further towards the hardest setting the bypass hole will become more covered so less gets through. It can only lock into the filter if the arrow is pointing at release. I'm not explaining this well at all but once you get your head around it the simplicity of the design is quite clever.
> 
> If you mean your dial / knob is loose in the box then mine came like this too but I don't think it's meant to. Get your head around the above and then if you get the rod lined up with the filter circular imprint thing then you can push the knob on slightly with the arrow pointing at release, spin it to check it is covering the bypass hole as described above and then when you are happy its lined up correctly push it firmly on.
> 
> Sorry, hope that makes sense when you're looking at the jug too!


 Yeah that knob came loose out of the box, and there wasn't really any indication which way it should fit. I ended up removing the cartridge, putting in the rod and then putting the dial on at release position. The filter cartridge was also not fully closed, but was able to close that as well.


----------



## Neo

Looks like it's £50 down the drain - Nothing I do can make it not leak from the bypass hole when it is set to 'HARD'


----------



## aaronb

Is it meant to let a tiny amount through even in the hardest setting?

Email them, post on the kickstarter, keep hassling them.


----------



## Jony

I had some black bits in my cup


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> Is it meant to let a tiny amount through even in the hardest setting?
> 
> Email them, post on the kickstarter, keep hassling them.


 I emailed them asking about the lid and they said to test it by setting to HARD, and if there's no bypass water then it''s set correctly

Well, it isn't

Then I saw the groove at the bottom of the filter and I'm sure it has slotted in, because there's nowhere else for the filter to go?

I don't know where the thing is leaking from tbh


----------



## StusBrews

I have the same to be fair...if I lift the blue compartment out whilst it is filtering, is see a drop of water come out the bypass hole every 5 or so seconds. Is this comparable to what you are seeing @Neo?


----------



## Neo

StusBrews said:


> I have the same to be fair...if I lift the blue compartment out whilst it is filtering, is see a drop of water come out the bypass hole every 5 or so seconds. Is this comparable to what you are seeing @Neo?


 I wish it is a minimal amount...

i thought i was being overly dramatic because maybe 10-20% water was comes out of that hole at first, but then as more water is added, as i feared i'd say 80-90% comes out of the bypass hole - that can't be right.
i sent my query to peak again hoping they'd help me out 🙁

p.s: I have made sure I at least hear a little click when I push the filter in...


----------



## aaronb

How long is it taking to filter a jug at that setting?


----------



## StusBrews

Neo said:


> I wish it is a minimal amount...
> 
> i thought i was being overly dramatic because maybe 10-20% water was comes out of that hole at first, but then as more water is added, as i feared i'd say 80-90% comes out of the bypass hole - that can't be right.
> i sent my query to peak again hoping they'd help me out 🙁
> 
> p.s: I have made sure I at least hear a little click when I push the filter in...


 When you look inside the top water chamber, can you see that the bypass hole is clearly closed off when you have the dial in the HARD position?

I know some folks have received their peaks with the dial detached. If the dial is not re-attached in the correct position, then one might not be truly at the HARD setting and the bypass hole could be fully open!


----------



## Neo

StusBrews said:


> When you look inside the top water chamber, can you see that the bypass hole is clearly closed off when you have the dial in the HARD position?
> 
> I know some folks have received their peaks with the dial detached. If the dial is not re-attached in the correct position, then one might not be truly at the HARD setting and the bypass hole could be fully open!


 It does look closed to me...even if it's mildly mismatched, it won't explain the amount of water coming out of bypass

besides mine wasn't detached,sigh


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> How long is it taking to filter a jug at that setting?


 Maybe a minute or two, definitely a lot less than what the guide suggests


----------



## aaronb

I wonder if the filter itself is defective?

Very frustrating and annoying.


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> I wonder if the filter itself is defective?
> 
> Very frustrating and annoying.


 seems like they didn;t receive my reply emails..3rd time's a charm?


----------



## aaronb

Any luck?

Did anybody else back the multiple filters pledge? They were supposed to ship 2 more mid may.


----------



## MildredM

Talking about smells now. Mine smells odd when I stick my nose in before I refill it. I can smell the chlorine smell of tap water plus this other smell. It isn't very nice really. I am only using mine for the kettle to check there isn't going to be any scale.


----------



## Rob1

The kettle is a pretty poor indicator.

Has anyone tested the water with a GH:KH drop kit yet?


----------



## MildredM

Rob1 said:


> The kettle is a pretty poor indicator.
> 
> Has anyone tested the water with a GH:KH drop kit yet?


 Compared to Brita it isn't, not for me anyway


----------



## aaronb

La Cabra made a post on their Instagram about how they measure the PPM and are actually turning the dial higher not lower like Maxwell suggests to get the best out of their coffees.

I know nothing about these numbers - how can I measure the PPM of my water and / or obtain more of the right kind test strips? I'm not convinced I'm on the right setting for my water anyway.

Thanks.


----------



## Rob1

PPM is mg/l.

Your water contains ions measured as mg/l e.g Calcium and Magnesium might be 20 mg/l and 5 mg/l respectively. Bicarbonates are also measured in mg/l. If you know the PPM of Calcium, Magnesium, and Bicarbonate then with a bit of arithmetic you can find out the PPM Hardness as CaCO3 and Alkalinity as CaCO3 which you can use to determine scaling potential.

A GH:KH drop kit will tell you the alkalinity and hardness in mg/l but not ion ppm. There might be specific test kits for different ions. I think there are aquarium test strips that measure calcium, magnesium, sodium, lead and other things.


----------



## StusBrews

aaronb said:


> La Cabra made a post on their Instagram about how they measure the PPM and are actually turning the dial higher not lower like Maxwell suggests to get the best out of their coffees.
> 
> I know nothing about these numbers - how can I measure the PPM of my water and / or obtain more of the right kind test strips? I'm not convinced I'm on the right setting for my water anyway.
> 
> Thanks.


 @aaronb I purchased an API GH and KH test kit of Amazon for just shy of £10. Would be worth getting a syringe too for accurate dosage of water into the test vial.

In terms of the Alkalinity (KH) in my tap water, the test strips were putting it at about 180ppm. The API test kit was reading a higher KH of around 220ppm. So that meant I had to dial my Peak in higher (i.e. less bypass) compared to the setting the test strip recommended.

I re-test the treated water periodically with the API kit and I'm hitting around 40-50ppm KH


----------



## Rob1

So it just alters KH? Doesn't do anything for hardness?


----------



## cuprajake

What alkalinity do you drink at?


----------



## aaronb

StusBrews said:


> @aaronb I purchased an API GH and KH test kit of Amazon for just shy of £10. Would be worth getting a syringe too for accurate dosage of water into the test vial.
> 
> In terms of the Alkalinity (KH) in my tap water, the test strips were putting it at about 180ppm. The API test kit was reading a higher KH of around 220ppm. So that meant I had to dial my Peak in higher (i.e. less bypass) compared to the setting the test strip recommended.
> 
> I re-test the treated water periodically with the API kit and I'm hitting around 40-50ppm KH


 Does the coffee taste any better?

Can you link to the one you bought?


----------



## StusBrews

Rob1 said:


> So it just alters KH? Doesn't do anything for hardness?


 No, it does bring hardness (GH) down too. I can't recall by how much on my last test I did as KH is the main aspect I'm trying to control.

It is my understanding that GH determines the water's effectiveness at extracting the coffee. I think if after treatment by the Peak filter, your water is a ideal KH but slightly higher on GH, you'll find yourself grinding on the coarser side.


----------



## the_partisan

I use "5" setting with Copenhagen water. It goes from 450ppm to 50ppm, and works pretty well. I also tried setting 4.5 which is OK, but then it's already close to 100pm. I didn't measure KH separately, but I can't imagine it being more than a few degrees if total TDS is 50ppm, that's almost same as RO water output.


----------



## StusBrews

aaronb said:


> Does the coffee taste any better?
> 
> Can you link to the one you bought?


 In my opinion it does. I would say the coffee is a lot clearer in terms of the tasting notes I can pick up on and increased sweetness as well.

It just love that I don't have to buy RO or bottled water any more. And the control over Alkalinity is amazing...for coffees that are excessively bright for my liking, I can just lower the dial to increase the Alkalinity to tame some of that brightness. For coffees on the darker roast side, I turn up the dial.

Link to API test kit: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B003SNCHMA/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_i_sM.XEbCMR60EP


----------



## StusBrews

the_partisan said:


> I use "5" setting with Copenhagen water. It goes from 450ppm to 50ppm, and works pretty well. I also tried setting 4.5 which is OK, but then it's already close to 100pm. I didn't measure KH separately, but I can't imagine it being more than a few degrees if total TDS is 50ppm, that's almost same as RO water output.


 You'd be surprised.

My TDS meter registers the treated water at around 110ppm, but the KH test kit shows Alkalinity at between 40-50ppm.

TDS isn't indicative of total Alkalinity, which is why a KH test kit comes in handy


----------



## aaronb

Just received an email saying 2 x 2 packs of filter just dispatched to me, email and question on KS completely ignored.


----------



## Neo

StusBrews said:


> You'd be surprised.
> 
> My TDS meter registers the treated water at around 110ppm, but the KH test kit shows Alkalinity at between 40-50ppm.
> 
> TDS isn't indicative of total Alkalinity, which is why a KH test kit comes in handy


 Me: Buy a titrating burret set and get a good measurement
Me after looking at prices: +-17ppm is fine


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> Just received an email saying 2 x 2 packs of filter just dispatched to me, email and question on KS completely ignored.


 Oh so it isn't just my email not getting through to them...Try instagram, it kinda worked


----------



## Rob1

Neo said:


> Me: Buy a titrating burret set and get a good measurement
> Me after looking at prices: +-17ppm is fine


 A GH:KH freshwater titration kit on amazon is less than £15.


----------



## aaronb

Neo said:


> Oh so it isn't just my email not getting through to them...Try instagram, it kinda worked


 The email was asking about when we'd get our next batch of filters (was meant to be Mid May) so pointless now. He has since replied on KS. Hope the remaining ones aren't too many months behind.


----------



## Neo

Rob1 said:


> A GH:KH freshwater titration kit on amazon is less than £15.


 yeah, each 'step' is about 17ppm i think


----------



## Neo

aaronb said:


> The email was asking about when we'd get our next batch of filters (was meant to be Mid May) so pointless now. He has since replied on KS. Hope the remaining ones aren't too many months behind.


 i saw on their insta saying they are about to finish fulfilling their pre-orders so hopefully soon!

sometimes i find i just need to give them a nudge instead of worrying about being pushy


----------



## Rob1

Neo said:


> yeah, each 'step' is about 17ppm i think


 The resolution can be changed with different sample quantities. e.g. 20ml instead of 5ml


----------



## MontMcFont

I received my Jug a couple of days ago. At first it worked fine (although the lid did not close properly like reported here by some other folks) and I managed to get water at a desired ppm of 110 and the coffee tasted excellent. Over the next couple of days though, no matter how I adjusted the setting, the ppm wouldnt go below 220 although the bypass was fully closed and no water was going through it(like with any normal Brita filter). I live in Berlin and Tap water here is between 400-430ppm.

To make things worse the water filtered with the peak started smelling REAL bad and fishy when boiling or left in the fridge for a day. The tap water has definitely never smelled like this.

Finally when I tried to check what the hell was wrong with the filter and lifted it out of the jug the metal mesh somehow snapped and now the resin are all over the place.

I am so frustrated. I really loved what I was able to achieve with the properly filtered water from the peak in the two (!) brews I had with it. But then waiting almost two years for the joy to last only two days is devastating.


----------



## MildredM

That sounds very frustrating @MontMcFont in every way.
Regarding the smell, I too am getting the same. I'm going to insta them next to ask why this is happening.


----------



## Jony

MildredM said:


> That sounds very frustrating @MontMcFont in every way.
> Regarding the smell, I too am getting the same. I'm going to insta them next to ask why this is happening.


 Why not just buy the osmio and have done with it no stress 😎


----------



## aaronb

No smell at all from mine so definitely something wrong there. I got an email reply from Maxwell today so they are replying.

RE the Osimo does it work well with both espresso and filter? I know some places that use RO for their espresso but not for their filter as they want a different profile, and 2 RO systems would be expensive. Plus you lose the bypass functionality if you go that route (or does the Osimo have bypass?)


----------



## MildredM

Jony said:


> Why not just buy the osmio and have done with it no stress 😎


 I had one and it ended up going to the office, for various reasons!


----------



## Jony

Nooooo


----------



## StusBrews

MontMcFont said:


> I received my Jug a couple of days ago. At first it worked fine (although the lid did not close properly like reported here by some other folks) and I managed to get water at a desired ppm of 110 and the coffee tasted excellent. Over the next couple of days though, no matter how I adjusted the setting, the ppm wouldnt go below 220 although the bypass was fully closed and no water was going through it(like with any normal Brita filter). I live in Berlin and Tap water here is between 400-430ppm.
> 
> To make things worse the water filtered with the peak started smelling REAL bad and fishy when boiling or left in the fridge for a day. The tap water has definitely never smelled like this.
> 
> Finally when I tried to check what the hell was wrong with the filter and lifted it out of the jug the metal mesh somehow snapped and now the resin are all over the place.
> 
> I am so frustrated. I really loved what I was able to achieve with the properly filtered water from the peak in the two (!) brews I had with it. But then waiting almost two years for the joy to last only two days is devastating.


 Hey @MontMcFont...I had the exact same issue and so contacted the Peak team to flag it. The fishy smell is actually normal and is caused by compound called trymethlamine. It is a harmless compound common in strong base resins in water filters. To combat this, they have since added 10% of another resin into the mix that combats the release of this compound without effecting the filtering power. So I suspect this will be resolved in the next batches of replacement filters.

As for the filter itself not becoming as effective, I found myself having to pass the same water through around 3 times to hit my target Alkalinity. The Peak team put this down to a faulty filter and so sent me a new one.

After getting my replacement, I like you opened up the faulty filter. Although in my case the metal mesh hadn't snapped, the resin was all over the place and had deep channels in it.

I wonder if these deep channels and the resin being displaced effects how well it treats the water? I also wonder if the force of the water out of the tap hitting the top layer of the resin causes it to be pushed around? A gravity filter and its resin are essentially like coffee grounds a drip filter. If you get channeling, then you end up with an uneven extraction.


----------



## StusBrews

Jony said:


> Why not just buy the osmio and have done with it no stress 😎


 Is the Omsio really a comparable solution to Peak?

It's my understanding that with Osmio water you would have to re-mineralise the RO water.
Osmio isn't really a light weight portable solution i.e. it can't be thrown in a backpack to take to work or if someone wanted to have good brew water whilst on holiday.
Some people won't be able to justify spending just shy of £400 with the added hassle of re-mineralising just to get good brew water.


----------



## Rob1

Does the fishy smell go away when the water is boiled?

The Osmio isn't a comparable solution to the peak, no. The peak seems to be a more portable solution designed for baristas in competitions so they can get consistent water at whatever location they're in. For home users, sure you can take it on holiday or whatever, but for daily use it's probably not a great solution, like all filters they'll lose effectiveness over time so you'll need to test your water fairly regularly to ensure consistency, there's also the ongoing cost of using it. That said there's an ongoing cost to the Osmio too. Presumably the Peak filters do lose effectiveness over time and don't just fail one day. Maybe just failing one day would be preferable.


----------



## StusBrews

Rob1 said:


> Does the fishy smell go away when the water is boiled?
> 
> The Osmio isn't a comparable solution to the peak, no. The peak seems to be a more portable solution designed for baristas in competitions so they can get consistent water at whatever location they're in. For home users, sure you can take it on holiday or whatever, but for daily use it's probably not a great solution, like all filters they'll lose effectiveness over time so you'll need to test your water fairly regularly to ensure consistency, there's also the ongoing cost of using it. That said there's an ongoing cost to the Osmio too. Presumably the Peak filters do lose effectiveness over time and don't just fail one day. Maybe just failing one day would be preferable.


 The smell is still there when the water is a boiling point. I cannot smell it once I start brewing with the water and it has no impact on the finished brew...it tastes great.

Do note in my earlier post however that the Peak team advised they have since adjusted the resin mix to combat the fishy smell.


----------



## MildredM

I have now fitted my new filter. It smells very strong - kind of fishy again, no, actually it reminds me more of a fusty old clothes shop that has been shut for 9 weeks without ventilation! I kind of feel I don't trust it (if that makes sense) and don't feel happy using it in my Londo. I keep meaning to get a testing kit but other things get in the way so until I do I am sticking with bottled water.

Peak did reply to ask my backer number and to say the filter can smell when it is due for changing.


----------



## Colio07

MildredM said:


> I have now fitted my new filter. It smells very strong - kind of fishy again, no, actually it reminds me more of a fusty old clothes shop that has been shut for 9 weeks without ventilation! I kind of feel I don't trust it (if that makes sense) and don't feel happy using it in my Londo. I keep meaning to get a testing kit but other things get in the way so until I do I am sticking with bottled water.
> Peak did reply to ask my backer number and to say the filter can smell when it is due for changing.


I was told by a different water filter company (after I'd complained about a fishy smell) that such a smell can be a signal that the filter needs changing. Not sure whether they were just trying to get out of giving me a refund / replacement filter, but that's what they said.

I don't have a fishy / musty smell (yet) with my Peak, but will keep smelling to check!


----------



## Neo

Rob1 said:


> Does the fishy smell go away when the water is boiled?
> 
> The Osmio isn't a comparable solution to the peak, no. The peak seems to be a more portable solution designed for baristas in competitions so they can get consistent water at whatever location they're in. For home users, sure you can take it on holiday or whatever, but for daily use it's probably not a great solution, like all filters they'll lose effectiveness over time so you'll need to test your water fairly regularly to ensure consistency, there's also the ongoing cost of using it. That said there's an ongoing cost to the Osmio too. Presumably the Peak filters do lose effectiveness over time and don't just fail one day. Maybe just failing one day would be preferable.


 what's ongoing cost of osmio (/comparable solutions)?

is there a good place to buy food grade chemicals here?


----------



## Rob1

Neo said:


> what's ongoing cost of osmio (/comparable solutions)?
> 
> is there a good place to buy food grade chemicals here?


 Don't know about the Osmio. My distiller works out at about 10p per litre. Not for everyone though, especially if consumption is high. I wouldn't dream of using it for sowdens at 500ml a time or any other brew method. Lucky for me my tap water is pretty much perfect for brewing.

Food grade chemicals are easy to get hold of from amazon and supermarkets typically as food supplements if not ordinary ingredients (e.g sodium bicarb). Depends what you're looking for.


----------



## Neo

Rob1 said:


> Don't know about the Osmio. My distiller works out at about 10p per litre. Not for everyone though, especially if consumption is high. I wouldn't dream of using it for sowdens at 500ml a time or any other brew method. Lucky for me my tap water is pretty much perfect for brewing.
> 
> Food grade chemicals are easy to get hold of from amazon and supermarkets typically as food supplements if not ordinary ingredients (e.g sodium bicarb). Depends what you're looking for.


 still cheaper than volvic (depends on the fixed cost etc)


----------



## MontMcFont

I also got a reply after reporting of the fishy smell issue and the snapping of the mesh on kickstarter.

Quote:"HI Morten, So sorry to hear of the negative experience. A fishy smell is normally related to a heavily used and spent filter > we mitigate against this with another resin and you really shouldn't be getting anything like this this quickly. Very odd you should get this after two days. I will ship you out another filter tomorrow. The breach and attachment fo the mesh is an issue we are addressing as a large production QC focus. We have moved to new adhesives and sealing methods to resolve this. Keen to see how you get on with the new filter. Do you know how much water you put through the filter?"

I'll see and report how the replacement filter function when it arrives. I really hope it simply works 😕

I am kind of glad to hear that this is not an isolated issue and that they seem to be working on it.


----------



## aaronb

Filters were supposedly sent last weekend yet nothing has arrived


----------



## MildredM

aaronb said:


> Filters were supposedly sent last weekend yet nothing has arrived


 Mine took a while. Just when I thought it wasn't coming, it came! A couple of weeks maybe. Not necessarily Peak's fault, some items I have posted recently have taken ages while once parcel got to Austria in 5 days!


----------



## aaronb

Filters arrived today. Looking forward to changing the filter and seeing what affect it has on taste.


----------



## the_partisan

I have been using mine but TDS has been creeping up, went from around 50 originally to now close to 80ppm and I have not used that many times (maybe 5-6 cycles). I 'll try to keep a log next time to see how the TDS changes over time.. I think I also noticed a slight smell , nothing very strong though. I keep mine in fridge to reduce growth of any bacteria or similar.


----------



## DavecUK

the_partisan said:


> I have been using mine but TDS has been creeping up, went from around 50 originally to now close to 80ppm and I have not used that many times (maybe 5-6 cycles). I 'll try to keep a log next time to see how the TDS changes over time.. I think I also noticed a slight smell , nothing very strong though. I keep mine in fridge to reduce growth of any bacteria or similar.


 When you finish with that filter you should break it open and weigh the amount of resin after it's dried to just feeling damp , that will give you a better idea of its realistic capacity to reduce hardness/treat water. Typically a DI resin will treat up to 0.14 litres of water per gram (weight out of packet). Meant to be a best case....to take it down to 0 TDS or close to.

Assume that the Peak isn't taking it to 0 TDS but say 70-80...and assume its "special resin?" capable of way better performance of the standard resins and multiply that best case by 6 times better performance than other industry resins (game changing performance). *This gives a figure of 0.84 litres per gram of resin.*


----------



## the_partisan

Will check again, though I did another measurement after fiddling with the dial a bit and seems now back to 50-60 range (measuring straight out of the fridge, and might be the TDS meter isn't accurate at all temps). It's great that the resin works so well, however the design of the whole plastic pitcher is just pretty poor.


----------



## DavecUK

The lower the temp the lower the TDS reading


----------



## weirdcoffeeperson

Hi guys,

I just wanted to join this discussion regarding the peak water filter as I have been experiencing something quite strange since yesterday. I've been using it for a good 3-5 days now and this problem started yesterday. When I brew with the peak filtered water, the coffee looks a bit murky. When drinking the coffee, it has a slight bitter note and after cooling down for a few minutes, I taste very astringent notes together with the bitterness. It just makes the coffee undrinkable.

I have changed nothing about the way I brew except for the water. So I assume, that that is the root cause. Has anyone experienced something similar?


----------



## StusBrews

weirdcoffeeperson said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I just wanted to join this discussion regarding the peak water filter as I have been experiencing something quite strange since yesterday. I've been using it for a good 3-5 days now and this problem started yesterday. When I brew with the peak filtered water, the coffee looks a bit murky. When drinking the coffee, it has a slight bitter note and after cooling down for a few minutes, I taste very astringent notes together with the bitterness. It just makes the coffee undrinkable.
> 
> I have changed nothing about the way I brew except for the water. So I assume, that that is the root cause. Has anyone experienced something similar?


 Do you have any tools (i.e. TDS meter and/or water test kit) to check your water pre and post filtration? If so, it would be good to see what your numbers are pre and post filtering.

I've had an issue whereby after passing about 20-25 litres of through the filter, its performance starts to drop off a cliff and there is a fishy smell coming from the boiled water. I reported this to the Peak team and received a replacement filter, and now the replacement is doing it.

I also later learnt from another member's post here that the fishy smell is the sign of a heavily used/spent filter(!).

The first time it happened I was at one point having to pass ~200ppm alkalinity water through 3 times on the maximum setting to get it down to my target of around 40-50ppm. When the filter was brand new, I was about hit my target with one pass on setting 4.1.

I'm starting to suspect there is a batch of filters out there with faulty resin.


----------



## weirdcoffeeperson

StusBrews said:


> Do you have any tools (i.e. TDS meter and/or water test kit) to check your water pre and post filtration? If so, it would be good to see what your numbers are pre and post filtering.
> 
> I've had an issue whereby after passing about 20-25 litres of through the filter, its performance starts to drop off a cliff and there is a fishy smell coming from the boiled water. I reported this to the Peak team and received a replacement filter, and now the replacement is doing it.
> 
> I also later learnt from another member's post here that the fishy smell is the sign of a heavily used/spent filter(!).
> 
> The first time it happened I was at one point having to pass ~200ppm alkalinity water through 3 times on the maximum setting to get it down to my target of around 40-50ppm. When the filter was brand new, I was about hit my target with one pass on setting 4.1.
> 
> I'm starting to suspect there is a batch of filters out there with faulty resin.


 Unfortunately, I do not have the equipment to test the water. That's why I was hoping someone might have made a similar experience. I'll keep an eye out for fishy smell as well next time I use the filter.


----------



## JoeBL

Emptied the remaining 200ml of water in my Peak into a glass after filling my kettle this morning.

Concerned seeing all of these little balls in the glass. They're super super small, thought they were tiny air bubbles at first until I tilted the glass and they all rolled down.

Has anyone had something similar?


----------



## Rob1

JoeBL said:


> Emptied the remaining 200ml of water in my Peak into a glass after filling my kettle this morning.
> 
> Concerned seeing all of these little balls in the glass. They're super super small, thought they were tiny air bubbles at first until I tilted the glass and they all rolled down.
> 
> Has anyone had something similar?
> 
> View attachment 40822


 Looks like bits of resin.


----------



## cuprajake

These dont seem to be the best things in the world, are they prototypes veen rolled out or finished products


----------



## DavecUK

Rob1 said:


> Looks like bits of resin.


 mmmm...mini plastics, like microplastics just bigger. Always been puzzled when people worry about plastic bottles but are happy with water filter jugs?



StusBrews said:


> Do you have any tools (i.e. TDS meter and/or water test kit) to check your water pre and post filtration? If so, it would be good to see what your numbers are pre and post filtering.
> 
> I've had an issue whereby after passing about 20-25 litres of through the filter, its performance starts to drop off a cliff and there is a fishy smell coming from the boiled water. I reported this to the Peak team and received a replacement filter, and now the replacement is doing it.
> 
> I'm starting to suspect there is a batch of filters out there with faulty resin.


 I suspect that you are seeing the true capacity of the filter for your hardness based on the resin content. I'm actually surprised it softened as much as it did.


----------



## Manc087

JoeBL said:


> Emptied the remaining 200ml of water in my Peak into a glass after filling my kettle this morning.
> 
> Concerned seeing all of these little balls in the glass. They're super super small, thought they were tiny air bubbles at first until I tilted the glass and they all rolled down.
> 
> Has anyone had something similar?
> 
> View attachment 40822


 I have the exact same issue - after using the filter for 3 or 4 days I noticed lots of the resin balls in the bottom of my glass, though mine also had a lighter bigger white spheres too. Hate to think how many of them me and my girlfriend ingested.

The quality control is dire - the amount of issues people are having with their filters clearly shows widespread issues. I can't quite fathom how these issues weren't spotted during their testing phase.


----------



## MildredM

I have messaged to ask them to confirm whether they are plastic (I'm fairly sure they are, personally.)


----------



## Agentb

MildredM said:


> I have messaged to ask them to confirm whether they are plastic (I'm fairly sure they are, personally.)


 Do you have Little Scientist you can send in?🧐


----------



## the_partisan

Mine's performance also seems to have dropped quite significantly.. last batch was 180ppm TDS, though I can't tell if that's because of the fiddly mechanism or just the resin is spent. I have maybe put something like 20-30L through it so far in a month? I don't think I had an issue with the resin leaking into the water though.

The units are *far* from production quality. I wonder if the next batch of filters will be any better?

The best thing to come out of this would be that Brita/BWT etc will realize there's a market for this kind of filters and will make a proper product.


----------



## MildredM

They replied thus (I have asked for confirmation that it won't be harmful if ingested and/or harmful to marine life):

Hey. Sorry about this. This is the resin. You clearly have a breach. The resin is harmless but of course you Don't want it !!! And neither do we !!!

I would stop using that one and we will send another

We have changed the sealing methods as this has occurre on a few filters


----------



## MildredM

Agentb said:


> Do you have Little Scientist you can send in?🧐


 The Busy Little Men are busy on another job at present


----------



## catpuccino

MildredM said:


> The Busy Little Men are busy on another job at present
> 
> View attachment 40889


 This is very HBO's Chernobyl


----------



## Agentb

MildredM said:


> The Busy Little Men are busy on another job at present
> 
> View attachment 40889


 Busy Little Man says "You clearly have a breach. The resin is harmless but of course you Don't want it !!!" 😺


----------



## MildredM

It is much worse than I thought. I have been using the Peak ONLY for my kettle. I poured the contents into the sink.
This is the result after 6 weeks:


----------



## MildredM

Brown and white beads. The brown are crushable, the white seem to me like plastic. If this was in my L-R I would be absolutely fuming now. Sorry to alarm anyone because naturally we bought the Peak for our machines so I guess there will be some boilers with this in them. How can this be right?


----------



## Agentb

MildredM said:


> It is much worse than I thought. I have been using the Peak ONLY for my kettle. I poured the contents into the sink.


 oh dear, the BLM are now VBLM. 🙀



MildredM said:


> Brown and white beads. The brown are crushable, the white seem to me like plastic. If this was in my L-R I would be absolutely fuming now. Sorry to alarm anyone because naturally we bought the Peak for our machines so I guess there will be some boilers with this in them. How can this be right?


 I think i'd be a bit cross and checking if there is a filter to trap this sort of thing.🙀

I guess there will be some people with this in them... do you hear maracas if you jump up and down? 😹


----------



## catpuccino

Agentb said:


> I think i'd be a bit cross and checking if there is a filter to trap this sort of thing.


 Mmm the Vesuvius has a small mesh filter (bit like a garden pond pump...) on the end of the water in tube. I don't know how common this particularly with all the different kinds of tank plumbing there are.


----------



## DavecUK

I doubt the Vs mesh filter would stop that. I would also advise cutting open an unused filter and Checking the colour of the styrene beads. I doubt they started out brown.

My advice would be not to use or drink the water from these, especially if there is a bad odour, preferably not at all.

If people are determined to use them, perhaps set a 3 week limit, no matter how little liquid has gone through.

Hopefully they will sort the filters out in time..


----------



## JoeBL

the_partisan said:


> Mine's performance also seems to have dropped quite significantly.. last batch was 180ppm TDS, though I can't tell if that's because of the fiddly mechanism or just the resin is spent. I have maybe put something like 20-30L through it so far in a month? I don't think I had an issue with the resin leaking into the water though.
> 
> The units are *far* from production quality. I wonder if the next batch of filters will be any better?
> 
> The best thing to come out of this would be that Brita/BWT etc will realize there's a market for this kind of filters and will make a proper product.


 I don't have anything to test TDS but haven't noticed any drop in the taste of my coffee, and have been using it for 2 weeks now.

Think I'll probably just go back to the BWT Mg+ I've been using. I used to mix Tesco Ashbeck and Volvic but hate wasting all that plastic. The Peak was super attractive not only because of the "perfect water for coffee" promise, but also their commitment to having a filter recycling programme worldwide.

Bit gutted it's this bad.


----------



## the_partisan

I looked at my gooseneck kettle today and also saw a few bits of plastic beads floating around, not so many though, and I noticed on top of the filter inside the peak there were quite a few loose ones. It looks like my filter also opened/leaked. At least I only drink filtered coffee. The lid that's supposed to lock the resin in doesn't seem very tight and it's slightly open in a few places. I will also send them a mail.


----------



## dbez70

Rob1 said:


> Looks like bits of resin.


 Bought mine 10 days ago. Read this thread and checked in the bottom of my Peak jug and have the same. Very disappointing!


----------



## aaronb

I cant say I've noticed any of these in the tank of my L1.

Everyone needs to be posting this on the KS page and emailing them though.


----------



## MildredM

I am not keep on shouting out on social media, it could do irreparable damage to the whole project. I have been assured they are taking it very seriously and want to rectify this issue, naturally. I am willing to try another new filter and see how it performs.


----------



## dsc

Anyone noticed any weird smells from their boiled Peak water? Mine was fine early on but now whenever I boil the water from the Peak it smells of fish :/ like, the whole kitchen smells of it. Cold is fine, no odd smells, but boiled is fishy as hell, no idea what it might be.

T.


----------



## StusBrews

dsc said:


> Anyone noticed any weird smells from their boiled Peak water? Mine was fine early on but now whenever I boil the water from the Peak it smells of fish 😕 like, the whole kitchen smells of it. Cold is fine, no odd smells, but boiled is fishy as hell, no idea what it might be.
> 
> T.


 Hey @dsc

That fishy smell is indicative of a spent filter. I've had the same issue with my first filter after only putting approximately 25-30 litres of water through it at around 4.1 on the dial. If you are able to test your water, you'll probably also notice that it's performance has dropped off a cliff.

I reported the issue and was sent a replacement which did exactly the same at around 25-30 litres.

After providing further feedback, I've been given another replacement filter that has a tweaked resin mix and will be keeping an eye on its performance. Although I am slightly surprised that I was getting the issue from the start seeing as I live in the same town as water treatment company who mix the resin and load it into the filters 😁


----------



## dsc

@StusBrews damn, that's pretty bad. I've not even thought of checking the water as I barely got 30l through it :/ I've dropped Maxwell an email an hour or so ago, but I reckon I'll be getting a new filter based on what you've said. Off to check what the filtered water TDS is...


----------



## Rob1

25-30 litres sounds like a lot to me. How long are these things supposed to last?

EDIT: Just checked how long zero filters last so looks like I'm wrong (unless your water is really hard).


----------



## Tunn300

Rob1 said:


> 25-30 litres sounds like a lot to me. How long are these things supposed to last?


 I would hope more than this. It's £25 for two filters so at £12.50 for a filter if it did only 25 litres that's 50p a litre. Compare that to around 20p a litre for Tesco Ashbeck that would be incredibly expensive.


----------



## dsc

BWT should last up to 150l I think, but with my 260ppm TDS water they give up at around 100l.

Just checked and the Peak gives water which is 185ppm, so still fairly legit. Cold water from it now also started to stink of fish...Checked the bottom of the jug and only found a few tiny black balls, so I think the filter is whole at least.


----------



## DavecUK

Seems like zerowater filters also suffer from the fishy smell issue. Plenty of instances on the internet. On the lakeland site this was posted by either the Lakeland team or more likely Zerowater.



> *
> A note from the team
> *
> 
> We're sorry to hear of your disappointment. Once the TDS meter reads more than 006 it's time to change it. In areas where the water has particularly high dissolved solids you may need to change your filter every two weeks. The smell is caused by the ion exchange in the filter which decreases the pH of the water and means your filter is overdue a change. For more information you can visit this website: https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/how-long-will-my-filter-last We've been in touch to offer you a full refund and hope this helps to explain.


 https://www.lakeland.co.uk/73247/ZeroWater 5-Stage Water Filter Jug with Free TDS Meter 1.7L/all-reviews

Really sounds like the filters may need to be changed a lot more often than people were expecting!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I have recently been researching to ion exchange resin... you know, the stuff the window cleaning people use to clean the water.

1 litre of resin will saturate pretty quickly in hard water areas...

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/resin_calculator

I does make me wonder how long a Brita filter or the Zero water really last, given the amount of resin in those filters.


----------



## dsc

Got a reply from Maxwell:

"That fish smell is trymethlamine which is a compound used in strong base resins and is noticeable at the end of life of filters. "

So yes, the filter seems to be at the end of it's life. I've thought some more re how much water I pushed through it and it's probably closer to 50l. If every filter is like this I'll either have to have less coffee made using water from the Peak or give it up altogether :/


----------



## Rob1

Their goal was to produce 100l filtered water on the hardest setting according to their FAQ. I assume the hardest setting = maximum bypass? It seems it would be hugely dependent on water quality going in anyway....

They advertised approx 10p per litre on their kickstarter campaign. If they are unable to get even close to this figure with an average water spec filtered to a more ideal target they should really reduce the cost of the filters to make it possible.


----------



## dsc

Btw what is the cost of a new filter?

Our tap water is 265ppm / 7.2ph (no idea on other parameters need to order a kit) which is high but not yet liquid rock imho. I'm running the Peak at setting 4 even though the strip test indicated that I should be using 3, but Maxwell suggested those are typically low and to bump it up a notch.

I'll be honest, I still prefer my BWT Mg filter to the Peak, if I have to switch out filters every 40-50l which is roughly 2-3 weeks, I'll probably just stay with the BWT.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

dsc said:


> Got a reply from Maxwell:
> 
> "That fish smell is trymethlamine which is a compound used in strong base resins and is noticeable at the end of life of filters. "
> 
> So yes, the filter seems to be at the end of it's life. I've thought some more re how much water I pushed through it and it's probably closer to 50l. If every filter is like this I'll either have to have less coffee made using water from the Peak or give it up altogether :/


https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/how-long-will-my-filter-last

My water, according to Thames Water is 275ppm. I think it's more like 300 plus.

According to their own information.... and let's say it's marketing and they are optimistic....

https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/how-long-will-my-filter-last

55L or thereabouts.


----------



## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/how-long-will-my-filter-last
> 
> My water, according to Thames Water is 275ppm. I think it's more like 300 plus.
> 
> According to their own information.... and let's say it's marketing and they are optimistic....
> 
> https://zerowater.co.uk/pages/how-long-will-my-filter-last
> 
> 55L or thereabouts.


 My water reads 235 to 255 & using Zerowater, at a litre plus per day, a filter lasts me 3-4 months.

Moot really as regulations suggest changing filters for any jug every 2 months max.


----------



## Tunn300

dsc said:


> Btw what is the cost of a new filter?


 Has Bean has them listed for sale at £25 for a pack of 2.


----------



## dsc

Rob1 said:


> Their goal was to produce 100l filtered water on the hardest setting according to their FAQ. I assume the hardest setting = maximum bypass? It seems it would be hugely dependent on water quality going in anyway....
> They advertised approx 10p per litre on their kickstarter campaign. If they are unable to get even close to this figure with an average water spec filtered to a more ideal target they should really reduce the cost of the filters to make it possible.


Hardest is zero bypass, all water goes through the filter, which is why it uses it up the quickest. But it really isn't going to work for a lot of people if you need a new filter every 2-3 weeks, at £12.50 a pop. I'm a fairly average user anyway, so using 2-3l per day tops, the issue is that you don't just brew with your boiled water, you rinse filters, warm up vessels etc. If it's that expensive to use the Peak then you'd need a separate, ordinary water kettle for all those non-brewing tasks and this isn't very practical.


----------



## malling

I Finally got mine, It apparently got stuck somewhere for weeks.

Luckily I don't have a noticeable lid issue, everything seems to work almost as it should, but it's not very easy to turn the dial on.

With 324ppm water I set it 4.2 or 5, so the bypass function is completely irrelevant for me.

on a normal basis I use RO with added mineral concentrate, this isn't going to replace it by any means. The quality of the water is okay but it isn't even close to be at the same level, the Ro deliver better sweetness, clarity and more noticeable flavours. But for comfortable travel, short visits or longer stays in one location this will be just fine. I don't see it as a great solution for day to day usage as it is both to expensive and dos not deliver the highest quality of water.


----------



## the_partisan

I also wrote to them about the beads issue and now a replacement is on the way. I also started getting the fishy smell after about maybe 30 liters, far from the advertised 100L. The first 15-20L was good, but TDS is now upto 200 after filtering and I started to notice some scale in the kettle. I'll keep a more accurate log with the next filter so I can track the performance better.


----------



## Deegee

Mrs Gee has bought me one as a present, however with our local water company giving a TH figure of 367 I'm not sure filters are going to last long by the sound of it.... 😕


----------



## Manc087

After finding lots of the resin beads in the bottom of my glass / kettle they sent a replacement filter. After a day of use it's the exact same issue only this time it has the fishy smell too.

Supposedly these newer filters were manufactured using a different process to avoid the issue happening.


----------



## dsc

Manc087 said:


> After finding lots of the resin beads in the bottom of my glass / kettle they sent a replacement filter. After a day of use it's the exact same issue only this time it has the fishy smell too.
> Supposedly these newer filters were manufactured using a different process to avoid the issue happening.


Crap that is bad, fishy smell basically indicates that the filter needs changing, unless of course there's a different issue in the manufacturing process and the smell is there due to higher concentration of trymethlamine :/

I got my replacement filter today, only just primed it, so will take notes of tds / ph of filtered water now and keep logging how much water goes through it.


----------



## JoeBL

the_partisan said:


> I also wrote to them about the beads issue and now a replacement is on the way. I also started getting the fishy smell after about maybe 30 liters, far from the advertised 100L. The first 15-20L was good, but TDS is now upto 200 after filtering and I started to notice some scale in the kettle. I'll keep a more accurate log with the next filter so I can track the performance better.


 How did you manage to get a replacement? I've been in touch with them last week and they asked for my address to send a new one. Gave it on Friday and haven't heard anything since, despite a follow up email. I'm now left with a filter leaking beads, passed it's "one month" best before, and no confidence of purchasing more as I'm not convinced the issue has actually been fixed based on others experiences with new filters.

Bit annoyed really. Not going to take it further but feel massively ripped off for my £50. Back to the BWT


----------



## MildredM

JoeBL said:


> How did you manage to get a replacement? I've been in touch with them last week and they asked for my address to send a new one. Gave it on Friday and haven't heard anything since, despite a follow up email. I'm now left with a filter leaking beads, passed it's "one month" best before, and no confidence of purchasing more as I'm not convinced the issue has actually been fixed based on others experiences with new filters.
> 
> Bit annoyed really. Not going to take it further but feel massively ripped off for my £50. Back to the BWT


 I got a pretty much instant response using Insta message. I am sure he will be pleased to replace that filter, speaking from my experience.


----------



## the_partisan

JoeBL said:


> How did you manage to get a replacement? I've been in touch with them last week and they asked for my address to send a new one. Gave it on Friday and haven't heard anything since, despite a follow up email. I'm now left with a filter leaking beads, passed it's "one month" best before, and no confidence of purchasing more as I'm not convinced the issue has actually been fixed based on others experiences with new filters.
> 
> Bit annoyed really. Not going to take it further but feel massively ripped off for my £50. Back to the BWT


 They sent a me tracking number as reply to a mail to [email protected] It arrived a few days ago, seems much better sealed. I also asked about the fishy smell and they said this:



> Yes, with the early filters, it seems that a very small amount of people with specific water composition triggers this 'fishy' smell. Humans are quite sensitive to this aroma at 5 parts per million. We have since added a specific resin making up 10% of the total that mitigates the trimethylamine that causes the smell. The filter coming your way has this resin in, so you shouldn't have this problem.


 Just started to use the new filters now, and TDS doesn't seem as low as the old one (around 120 on 2nd fill after the flush), but will keep using it and also tracking how it progresses.


----------



## the_partisan

I've been tracking the TDS after each fill, each fill is about 1.2L-1.3L (filled directly from tap)

TDS without filtering 400-450ppm

On Hardest setting

1. Flush Fill - didn't measure
2. 122
3. 115
4. 67
5. 80
6. 112
7. 114 - at this point I already start to notice a little bit of scale on my pour over kettle
8. 115

Seems rather poor performance, did anyone else try to measure this way?


----------



## Rob1

What happened around 4 and 5? Seems like you changed settings there.

Other than that the numbers are consistent. Is that 0 bypass?

You will get scale with "ideal" brew water.


----------



## DavecUK

I would also say that you are more likely to see performance drop off a cliff, rather than a gradual decline. As yet your Peak seems to still be performing, see how it is once you have 30l through it....I would imagine the performance will drop off dramatically shortly after.


----------



## AJP80

the_partisan said:


> 7. 114 - at this point I already start to notice a little bit of scale on my pour over kettle


 This surprises me as I've brewed 100+ litres of water in my newish pour over kettle @ 150 TDS (about 110 mag and the rest calcium) and it's still shiny like new. Tbh I wasn't expecting scale at those levels in an unpressurised container.


----------



## Rob1

AJP80 said:


> This surprises me as I've brewed 100+ litres of water in my newish pour over kettle @ 150 TDS (about 110 mag and the rest calcium) and it's still shiny like new. Tbh I wasn't expecting scale at those levels in an unpressurised container.


 Not sure how you know what TDS relates to....but hardness doesn't cause scale by itself. You might get no scale at 200mg/l hardness & alkalinity 30mg/l and some scale at 100mg/l & 50mg/l alkalinity.


----------



## AJP80

Hi Rob, yes I should have said, it's home brew. So I add about 1.2 grams of epsom salts and 0.3 grams of Calcium Citrate to 4l of Osmio Zero RO water. General hardness is about 150 (minimum) unless I've messed up my maths. Alkalinity, I have no Idea (less than 50? I forget. Perhaps that was with bicarbonate instead of citrate. I have no idea how you calculate the alkalinity effect of citrate). I didn't think alkalinity affected scaling beyond the weight of ions added with the carbonate (na)/ citrate (ca), but I've probably misunderstood your comment/ the science (the carbonate has to come from somewhere!).

What I think you're saying is that you can get scale with a general hardness of 100mg/l or less even at temperatures at or below boiling. In which case I need to rethink my "no scale" home brew for my Sage brewer (which is affected by scales Very quickly).


----------



## Rob1

AJP80 said:


> Hi Rob, yes I should have said, it's home brew. So I add about 1.2 grams of epsom salts and 0.3 grams of Calcium Citrate to 4l of Osmio Zero RO water. General hardness is about 150 (minimum) unless I've messed up my maths. Alkalinity, I have no Idea (less than 50? I forget. Perhaps that was with bicarbonate instead of citrate. I have no idea how you calculate the alkalinity effect of citrate). I didn't think alkalinity affected scaling beyond the weight of ions added with the carbonate (na)/ citrate (ca), but I've probably misunderstood your comment/ the science (the carbonate has to come from somewhere!).
> 
> What I think you're saying is that you can get scale with a general hardness of 100mg/l or less even at temperatures at or below boiling. In which case I need to rethink my "no scale" home brew for my Sage brewer (which is affected by scales Very quickly).


 You need to know the alkalinity and general hardness to determine whether or not you'll see scale at various temperatures.

The Osmio already adds calcium and magnesium with ceramic balls doesn't it? Or can you run it without those filters in place? I'm not sure what else is added (I've probably been told at some point). Most people bump alkalinity up with bicarbonates of some kind.


----------



## AJP80

Hi Rob - yes the Osmio adds a little calcium and magnesium, although with a full tank inputting at a TDS of 280, I get just over a litre of output in the internal tank at a TDS of 8, so I suspect my mineralisation cartridge is spent. I don't know what impact the RO process has on alkalinity but I suspect my starting alkalinity is half the general hardness, so about 4. I find I prefer the taste of brews made with citrate over bicarbonate - perhaps that's why I don't see any scale. Downside of citrate is (I believe) it goes off quite quickly - in this weather my gallon of brew water starts to smell after two days and this is not something I've noticed using bicarbonate.

Anyway, I feel I have hijacked the thread a little so will back away now.


----------



## aaronb

I've turned my dial from 4 to 5 just to see what would happen. Had to grind quite a bit finer for espresso, I expected less of a gap. Conversely had to coarsen my Chemex grind up a bit. Body has changed but I'm not sure how to describe it. Flavours seem a bit more intense. I'm going to stick with it for a bit but I can see why a bit of bypass is needed.


----------



## Jimjam11

Central Scotland here so water is very soft. Tap water is 37ppm and filtered water is coming out at 24ppm (setting just below 2). I have put quite a lot of water through mine, > 60l.

I ran some water through it on setting 4 and it came out 6ppm!

Also no smell of fish after a month of use.

However, I also have the bead issue. Didnt get a reply when I sent them an insta message...


----------



## Neo

DavecUK said:


> I would also say that you are more likely to see performance drop off a cliff, rather than a gradual decline. As yet your Peak seems to still be performing, see how it is once you have 30l through it....I would imagine the performance will drop off dramatically shortly after.


 Reporting back so after about 1 month of usage (I haven't counted how much water I used but hey ho)

I set it at 4.2 originally, got 3 german degree KH and 5 GH

Tested again today KH is about 4.5 (1st test 4 drop just on the edge of colour change, 2nd took 5), GH is like 5-6

Might go up a bit to control the buffer at 50ppm ish


----------



## Neo

Jimjam11 said:


> Central Scotland here so water is very soft. Tap water is 37ppm and filtered water is coming out at 24ppm (setting just below 2). I have put quite a lot of water through mine, > 60l.
> 
> I ran some water through it on setting 4 and it came out 6ppm!
> 
> Also no smell of fish after a month of use.
> 
> However, I also have the bead issue. Didnt get a reply when I sent them an insta message...


 ngl i have considered moving to scotland because of the water


----------



## the_partisan

I have been tracking the "non-fishy" filter a bit more now, and this is how it looks:



Flush


122


115


67


80


112


114 - start seeing scale in kettle


115


103


132


112


145


98


122


160


233


262


Each fill is about 1,2L, and ignoring the 1st one, that's <20L before I started to get quite high TDS reading, which works about £0.6/L, about 3x more expensive than bottled water. Numbers are not super consistent, not sure if it was due to some temperature variation, or just in general how fast water was going through, but at least it gives some general trends.


----------



## dsc

I've been getting fairly mixed results as well although I only check it every X fills:

After 15L: tds 144ppm ph 7.6

After 26L: tds 162ppm ph 6.9

After 32L: tds 138ppm ph 6.4

After 40L: tds 122ppm ph 6.4

No idea why suddenly tds started dropping. I can also see some resin beads in the bottom of the filter holder and get a nasty "wet mop" smell from the filter compartment. Taste wise it's been a mixed bag, early on brews were nice but I have a feeling that now it's gone worse.


----------



## Rob1

removed


----------



## dsc

So fish smell is back on my filter which has seen 40 refills. Also still have resin beads in the bottom of the filter holder.

Just for a test I ordered a two pack of filters, almost £29 delivered :0 think this might be my last filter order, considering I get around 50L only from each.


----------



## shaunlawler

I need a water filter as I'm moving back to London today - back to the land of hard water which is quite different to Yorkshire.

Looking at hopefully getting an Osmio Zero soon but need a water jug quite quickly as I'm picking up an espresso machine on Sunday.

I was considering the Peak water jug but seeing all the negative reviews has put me off. Also surprised to hear that James Hoffman has pulled his YouTube video that compared the Peak to a Brita filter due to some kind of conflict.

Should I just pick up a Brita water filter for the near future to get by and forget about the Peak?


----------



## Jony

I have a peak jug in for sale area, could do you until osmio arrives.


----------



## AJP80

I *think* I have a ZeroWater jug that you can have if you can collect from Golders Green area (although it'll only save you a tenner or so because most of the cost is in the cartridges). Cartridges are expensive but can be picked up from Amazon and one should last you for 40 litres or so (enough for espresso machine use until an Osmio arrives). As the name suggests, it'll remove everything from the water, so you'll have the faff of remineralising, before suffering the same fate as Peake Water (fish smell and resin balls) after about 40l.

let me know if you are interested and I'll check if we still have it.

Andy


----------



## shaunlawler

AJP80 said:


> I *think* I have a ZeroWater jug that you can have if you can collect from Golders Green area (although it'll only save you a tenner or so because most of the cost is in the cartridges). Cartridges are expensive but can be picked up from Amazon and one should last you for 40 litres or so (enough for espresso machine use until an Osmio arrives). As the name suggests, it'll remove everything from the water, so you'll have the faff of remineralising, before suffering the same fate as Peake Water (fish smell and resin balls) after about 40l.
> 
> let me know if you are interested and I'll check if we still have it.
> 
> Andy


 Thanks for the offer.

I've just picked up a Brita filter as we needed one quite quickly for drinking water in the new flat.

Hopefully this will do until I get an Osmio Zero!


----------



## the_partisan

I also again started seeing something like sand in my kettle after a while. I sent them a mail while ago but no response. To me this seems like a really poor quality product that doesn't work like intended at all and should have never been released in this state. Back to using bottled water for now and looking to get a Claris Prime filter once my new kitchen is here. Only good thing to come out of this maybe that it will motivate a company like BWT or Brita to make a filter with a coffee-brewing focus.


----------



## aaronb

The latest comment on the kickstarter and reply are interesting. "margin of error" on the test strips, with people reading them low? I was very surprised at the result mine gave me as we have very hard water. Just whacked it back up to 5 from 4 again based on that.

With that said I am pleased with the taste and mouthfeel improvements. Another 4 filters arrived just over a week ago so 4 more to come. I also sent 2 off to be recycled, a bit of faff inputting information into the website for the label and further faff as the self checkout in the post office wouldn't scan the barcode and made me type it all in including the address. All I wanted was to print the label and chuck it in a postbox (If you use the box as suggested it's too big).


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## Jony

All thee praise Osmio 😎


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## dsc

How is Osmio which produces water with 25ppm TDS better than Peak which can be used straight away without adding bicarb or some other crap?


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## Jony

I have a Peak sat here doing nothing and the amount of water I use the Osmio works out better for me and cheaper in the long run. And other crap, what part did I say it was better in my reply can't actually see it can you!!!!!


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## Rob1

dsc said:


> How is Osmio which produces water with 25ppm TDS better than Peak which can be used straight away without adding bicarb or some other crap?


 Osmio/RO or Distillation is precise, repeatable and more economic? Peak seems variable from one fill to the next (sometimes significantly according to Partisan's data). You show yourself a increase in performance before a decline. Not sure how the reported TDS variance translates to an alkalinity and hardness variance.

Does the Peak filter out the "crap" like Chlorine, Chloride, Sulphate, Sodium, Fluoride, Nitrate, and other impurities?


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## tambu

I ended up with a fairly early production run Peak (mine was delivered early May or thereabouts) but it sat in a box. Unboxed it a month or two ago and it had a dodgy filter - leaking plastic balls into the jug in pretty large quantities, and didn't really fit. Peak swapped it out immediately and the new filter arrived one or two days later. Then things got busy, and I only tried it for the first time a few days ago. Filter seems fine but taste is not right - clear but dull, I'd say, so I'm not sure it's on the right setting (hot flavoured dishwater would be one description).

I've mostly avoided water chemistry to date, and started using volvic years ago on @MWJB 's "if you just want a single bottle then" recommendation alongside a plumbed-in BWT filter. I'm also jamming volvic in the machine on the basis that it doesn't scale too much.

But this Peak jug has thrown me a bit - it's probably time I looked into this properly, but it looks like Hendon's book Water for Coffee is out of print? So I guess a couple of questions:-

- Is there a neat summary of the relevant chemistry other than in Water for Coffee (e.g., a review paper, particularly comprehensive blog article etc)?

- The Peak jug seems to work using total alkalinity, is there a recommended way of testing that at home? Not sure how accurate the test strips are

I might leave the jug on the setting it's currently on and play with grind a bit, but so far it seems to have just added a(nother) moving target into my brewing


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## MWJB

tambu said:


> But this Peak jug has thrown me a bit - it's probably time I looked into this properly, but it looks like Hendon's book Water for Coffee is out of print? So I guess a couple of questions:-
> 
> - Is there a neat summary of the relevant chemistry other than in Water for Coffee (e.g., a review paper, particularly comprehensive blog article etc)?
> 
> - The Peak jug seems to work using total alkalinity, is there a recommended way of testing that at home? Not sure how accurate the test strips are
> 
> I might leave the jug on the setting it's currently on and play with grind a bit, but so far it seems to have just added a(nother) moving target into my brewing


 Neat summary = aim for 40-60mg/L alkalinity as CaCO3 (or 50-75mg/L as bicarbonate on a water bottle label).

Test using the Peak test strips, or a KH drop kit from Amazon/aquarium supplies shop.

You can't fix water with grind. Grind changes extraction, water changes the taste/scaling potential. You wouldn't necessarily expect to extract significantly differently because you have changed an ingredient (water), but it will change the taste (lower alkalinity for brighter taste, higher alkalinity for attenuated alkalinity).


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## tambu

Thanks MWJB. I thought the hardness of the water impacted extraction rates as well. Need to find an old copy of Hendon's book 😂

I found the Peak test strip unsatisfactory. The colour continued to change very rapidly over the first 20 seconds, so picking the colour at 10s feels a bit like it's got a big error bar on it. I'm not entirely sure I trust my colour perception either tbh. And there's only two in the box, not sure where to get more. Perhaps they'll send out more with next filter.

Will look at a KH drop kit; these Red Sea ones look OK - found one that does pH and KH


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## aaronb

What setting is your peak on? I was using Volvic for the same reasons as you and noticed an improvement, and also had issues with the test strips. If you look at the latest comment on the nonstarter it's noted by Maxwell the test strip results aren't great. The manual suggests dialling a bit lower if you use lighter roasts IIRC, whilst La Cabra recommend setting it to he max for their roasts.

I've been alternating between 4 and 5 and not sure which I like best. I definitely prefer it to volvic and get more clarity but feel I'm lacking something with some coffees.


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## tambu

Currently running it on 4, but I think that's too low even though it's the colour I got on the test strip as local water report suggests we are around 295mg/L CaCO3


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## aaronb

Try 5 and see what you think.


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## MWJB

tambu said:


> Thanks MWJB. I thought the hardness of the water impacted extraction rates as well. Need to find an old copy of Hendon's book 😂
> 
> I found the Peak test strip unsatisfactory. The colour continued to change very rapidly over the first 20 seconds, so picking the colour at 10s feels a bit like it's got a big error bar on it. I'm not entirely sure I trust my colour perception either tbh. And there's only two in the box, not sure where to get more. Perhaps they'll send out more with next filter.
> 
> Will look at a KH drop kit; these Red Sea ones look OK - found one that does pH and KH


 Hendon has agreed, since the book, that water does not impact measurable extraction.

If you're looking for a quick guide, the book is not for you. It goes into depth but doesn't really have any new insights. The authors thought it did, but there were errors in their method.


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## JJarvis

tambu said:


> I ended up with a fairly early production run Peak (mine was delivered early May or thereabouts) but it sat in a box. Unboxed it a month or two ago and it had a dodgy filter - leaking plastic balls into the jug in pretty large quantities, and didn't really fit. Peak swapped it out immediately and the new filter arrived one or two days later. Then things got busy, and I only tried it for the first time a few days ago. Filter seems fine but taste is not right - clear but dull, I'd say, so I'm not sure it's on the right setting (hot flavoured dishwater would be one description).
> 
> I've mostly avoided water chemistry to date, and started using volvic years ago on @MWJB 's "if you just want a single bottle then" recommendation alongside a plumbed-in BWT filter. I'm also jamming volvic in the machine on the basis that it doesn't scale too much.
> 
> But this Peak jug has thrown me a bit - it's probably time I looked into this properly, but it looks like Hendon's book Water for Coffee is out of print? So I guess a couple of questions:-
> 
> - Is there a neat summary of the relevant chemistry other than in Water for Coffee (e.g., a review paper, particularly comprehensive blog article etc)?
> 
> - The Peak jug seems to work using total alkalinity, is there a recommended way of testing that at home? Not sure how accurate the test strips are
> 
> I might leave the jug on the setting it's currently on and play with grind a bit, but so far it seems to have just added a(nother) moving target into my brewing


 I came across the SCAE's water chart document, which explains some of the chemistry and features the recommendations from Water for Coffee prominently. It's obviously much shorter than Water for Coffee, but it seems very practical.


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## malling

the_partisan said:


> I have been tracking the "non-fishy" filter a bit more now, and this is how it looks:
> 
> 
> 
> Flush
> 
> 
> 122
> 
> 
> 115
> 
> 
> 67
> 
> 
> 80
> 
> 
> 112
> 
> 
> 114 - start seeing scale in kettle
> 
> 
> 115
> 
> 
> 103
> 
> 
> 132
> 
> 
> 112
> 
> 
> 145
> 
> 
> 98
> 
> 
> 122
> 
> 
> 160
> 
> 
> 233
> 
> 
> 262
> 
> 
> Each fill is about 1,2L, and ignoring the 1st one, that's <20L before I started to get quite high TDS reading, which works about £0.6/L, about 3x more expensive than bottled water. Numbers are not super consistent, not sure if it was due to some temperature variation, or just in general how fast water was going through, but at least it gives some general trends.


 That corresponds to my finding, it's not much more reliable than a Brita, and after around 20l the filter turns useless with my water.

your filter definitely "died" at filtration 15.

I won't be buying a single filter again, as it is not consistent enough. Just have to find a new RO solution as the one I have is not manufactured anymore.


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## tambu

This is not a great product, I have to say. My replacement filter - as the first leaked little balls on the first flush - is now also leaking balls, after about 5 refills. Not great. There's also huge variability in the test strips - I used the last one I had and it indicates I should be around setting 3 now (was 4-4.2 on the last I did). I find this a bit hard to believe as the local water report is ~290mg/L total hardness, so total alkalinity would have to be less than half total hardness. Perhaps the strip was faulty as it was left in the (opened) wrapping for a bit (but in the box in the dark, so not sure if it would degrade). Getting a KH test kit would resolve that but with all the plastic balls leaking out the filter I'm not sure there's any point.


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## the_partisan

malling said:


> That corresponds to my finding, it's not much more reliable than a Brita, and after around 20l the filter turns useless with my water.
> 
> your filter definitely "died" at filtration 15.
> 
> I won't be buying a single filter again, as it is not consistent enough. Just have to find a new RO solution as the one I have is not manufactured anymore.


 I heard good things about BWT Roc but it's on the large side. I might end up getting the Claris Prime, it's not perfect, but at least should be consistent. Another option is something like Osmio Zero.


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## tambu

I finally got around to using an API KH and GH test kit, but I think it might be faulty on account of some wacky numbers. I did the test twice for each water, and rinsed the tubes with the water (and tested them in a different order and on a different day first time vs second).

Tap (day 1; day 2):

17 dGH, 22 dKH; 17 dGH, 22 dKH

BWT standard filter, reads 75% capacity (day 1; day 2):

5 dGH, 8 dKH; 5 dGH, 9 dKH

Peak @ #3, only about 10 litres through (day 1):

dGH 12, dKH 15

Peak @ #5 (day 2 and only one test so far, #3 seemed pointless based on previous test):

dGH 5, dKH 5; dGH 5, dKH 5

Volvic:

dGH 5, dKH 6; dGH 6, dKH 6

I attempted consistency in when to stop but I'm not totally convinced I managed it; given the mostly high numbers one drop variance doesn't seem to matter too much. The volvic numbers are way off the label (should be ~3.5 dGH and dKH from what I can make out), so either the labels are not useful, the test kit is faulty, or I'm doing something very strange in my method. The dGH for my tap water is very close to the water report from the supplier though (unfortunately they don't list anything related to alkalinity; it's not a great report).

Has anybody seen this variability with volvic, the extremely high KH in tap water, or had a faulty API test kit?!


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## Rob1

Are you stopping when the colour changes or are you adding until you see it change to a e.g. "bright yellow" as in the instructions? My test kit is accurate to the water report and remineralised water but I weigh out 20ml in a white cup and continuously stir while adding one drop at a time.


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## tambu

I occasionally stopped a little early, but I found that the brightest colour was only ever one drop more than the minimum level of colour change that I would mark down, so worst case I'm under-estimating by one degree (and I was consistent across GH/KH for a given sample, i.e. the same level of colour change). As most of the numbers I have are already higher than expected (with the exception of the dGH for tap when compared to water report), even if I added 1 degree to every result they'd only be more "wrong" versus expectation?


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## Rob1

You're supposed to do it at first colour change, the description in the instructions is misleading. If you use a larger amount of water the resolution of the test will be more accurate. I believe with 5ml the resolution per drop is something like 14ppm? If the measure of water is even slightly inaccurate the results will be thrown off significantly with a small test sample.


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## tambu

Even if I'm 0.5ml out in the tube - unlikely as I used a (admittedly naff) syringe - that's only 10%, so for tap that would be 15-19 dGH and 20-24 dKH, so the KH is still higher than the GH and I've not seen that in any of the examples of tap water reports people have shared. Have you ever seen that in tap water before on here, perhaps?

For volvic I agree the 10% is more meaningful, so I did retest this and also weigh. The syringe actually seems to be quite accurate, as my 4x5ml came to exactly 20ml on the scales (or at the very least, the syringe and scales are consistently wrong!). I tested only KH, stopped at first colour change, and got the same result - 24 drops, i.e. 6 dKH in 20ml ( 17.9ppm * 6 = 107 mg/L as CaCO3). So I'm stumped.


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## MWJB

tambu said:


> Even if I'm 0.5ml out in the tube - unlikely as I used a (admittedly naff) syringe - that's only 10%, so for tap that would be 15-19 dGH and 20-24 dKH, so the KH is still higher than the GH and I've not seen that in any of the examples of tap water reports people have shared. Have you ever seen that in tap water before on here, perhaps?


 There's nothing that prevents KH from being higher than GH, it happens, especially if you live by the sea.


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## tambu

My first thought was sodium, but the water report lists that and it seems quite low (8mg/L) (and much lower than a random Thames water report I compared against with a far lower stated total alkalinity). Although only 12 miles from the coast, the water here is supplied from an underground chalk aquifer a bit further inland. I've emailed the water company to see if they can provide any guidance on total alkalinity, but I don't expect much.

I'm happy to accept it for what it is, assuming that the kit is working as expected - but my volvic "control" seems away from expectations, and I don't know if that's label error or test kit error (or possibly my calculation error).


----------



## Catlady101

I got really excited about this and even set up a kickstarter account and was baffled as to why the green "back this project " link was missing, ahem....

then I realised this was waaaay back in 2018 ( for some reason my computer loads the forum posts on page 1 not the latest page) 😁

SO I thought, its OK, it is still being talked about so went a shopping but alas - I cannot find it anywhere - does anyone know where you can buy this or did it just not go into production after all and hte only ones are kickstarter member ones?


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## ashcroc

Catlady101 said:


> I got really excited about this and even set up a kickstarter account and was baffled as to why the green "back this project " link was missing, ahem....
> then I realised this was waaaay back in 2018 ( for some reason my computer loads the forum posts on page 1 not the latest page)
> 
> SO I thought, its OK, it is still being talked about so went a shopping but alas - I cannot find it anywhere - does anyone know where you can buy this or did it just not go into production after all and hte only ones are kickstarter member ones?


Coffeehit sell them.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

Catlady101 said:


> then I realised this was waaaay back in 2018 ( for some reason my computer loads the forum posts on page 1 not the latest page) 😁


 @Catlady101If you raise this as a question in this area

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/forum/99-how-do-i/

I promise to answer it immediately as I am sure you are not the only one with this problem, possibly due to the account default settings.


----------



## Rob1

tambu said:


> Even if I'm 0.5ml out in the tube - unlikely as I used a (admittedly naff) syringe - that's only 10%, so for tap that would be 15-19 dGH and 20-24 dKH, so the KH is still higher than the GH and I've not seen that in any of the examples of tap water reports people have shared. Have you ever seen that in tap water before on here, perhaps?
> 
> For volvic I agree the 10% is more meaningful, so I did retest this and also weigh. The syringe actually seems to be quite accurate, as my 4x5ml came to exactly 20ml on the scales (or at the very least, the syringe and scales are consistently wrong!). I tested only KH, stopped at first colour change, and got the same result - 24 drops, i.e. 6 dKH in 20ml ( 17.9ppm * 6 = 107 mg/L as CaCO3). So I'm stumped.





tambu said:


> My first thought was sodium, but the water report lists that and it seems quite low (8mg/L) (and much lower than a random Thames water report I compared against with a far lower stated total alkalinity). Although only 12 miles from the coast, the water here is supplied from an underground chalk aquifer a bit further inland. I've emailed the water company to see if they can provide any guidance on total alkalinity, but I don't expect much.
> 
> I'm happy to accept it for what it is, assuming that the kit is working as expected - but my volvic "control" seems away from expectations, and I don't know if that's label error or test kit error (or possibly my calculation error).


 Well I don't know what you're doing/how you're getting the figures. I don't do degrees clarke so I have no idea if 6 is equivent to 17ppm but that's 17ppm alaklinity or 17ppm hardness (i.e there's no translating that to "as CaCo3" and as far as I'm aware multiplying by 6 wouldn't achieve that for any reason) if you really are getting that with Volvic then something is out.

Sodium doesn't contribute to alkalinity or hardness.

EDIT: I see what you did there. 17ppm is equivalent to 1degree...


----------



## tambu

The assumption was that there was sodium bicarb, so showing up in KH but not GH, but I'm no chemist!

The numbers above reflect hardness (the dGH) and alkalinity (the dKH). The test kit works in degrees German, where one dKH is stated equal to 17.848 mg/l (ppm) CaCO3. So 6 dKH I think is ~107mg/L CaCO3. For Volvic, the result I got translates into seeing ~107mg/L (as CaCO3) for both general hardness and total alkalinity.

Volvic states bicarb of 75mg/L, so assuming that's HCO3 then it should be ~62mg/L CaCO3? I'm not sure about this bit, and whether it's a reasonable comparator.


----------



## Rob1

Yes it should be about 60mg/l alkalinity.

The sodium could be associated with a number of things, e.g. chloride, nitrate, sulphite, phosphate, hydroxide etc etc.


----------



## JJarvis

Catlady101 said:


> I got really excited about this and even set up a kickstarter account and was baffled as to why the green "back this project " link was missing, ahem....
> 
> then I realised this was waaaay back in 2018 ( for some reason my computer loads the forum posts on page 1 not the latest page) 😁
> 
> SO I thought, its OK, it is still being talked about so went a shopping but alas - I cannot find it anywhere - does anyone know where you can buy this or did it just not go into production after all and hte only ones are kickstarter member ones?


 Not sure if you've already bought it, but when I was looking at it, it seemed the best price was from Colonna (the creator's own roastery) - which has free delivery and a very generous 25% discount with the code LOCKDOWN25.


----------



## tambu

Rob1 said:


> Yes it should be about 60mg/l alkalinity.
> 
> The sodium could be associated with a number of things, e.g. chloride, nitrate, sulphite, phosphate, hydroxide etc etc.


 Is this variability in bottled water expected? I can't be the first person to use a bottled water as a control 😂

If not, then I have to get another test kit I suppose; maybe try Red Sea this time.

But to keep things on-topic, I will vaguely conclude that the Peak jug at #5 (max), after ~10L use, seems to give water "fairly close" in hardness and alkalinity to the Volvic control I have.

@MWJB you tried many combinations of bottled water iirc, did you ever test them versus the label?


----------



## MWJB

tambu said:


> @MWJB you tried many combinations of bottled water iirc, did you ever test them versus the label?


 I didn't test them all against the label, my grant application was unsuccessful 

It seems more likely to me that your drop kit works OK if your tap water checks out & that the bottled water label is less likely to be spot on (values vary over the year & year to year).


----------



## Catlady101

@JJarvis not as yet - was looking more into the science of it before comitting (as is now listed at about £50 instead of the £20 kickstarter price, thank-you so much for the top tip!😁

done and done, really easy checkout too.


----------



## tambu

MWJB said:


> I didn't test them all against the label, my grant application was unsuccessful 🙂
> 
> It seems more likely to me that your drop kit works OK if your tap water checks out & that the bottled water label is less likely to be spot on (values vary over the year & year to year).


 Maybe next year!

I've ordered a red sea KH titration kit so will see if that gives different numbers.


----------



## Lee james

dsc said:


> Got a reply from Maxwell:
> 
> "That fish smell is trymethlamine which is a compound used in strong base resins and is noticeable at the end of life of filters. "
> 
> So yes, the filter seems to be at the end of it's life. I've thought some more re how much water I pushed through it and it's probably closer to 50l. If every filter is like this I'll either have to have less coffee made using water from the Peak or give it up altogether 😕


 I'm getting that smell on a cartridge that still producing water at 110TDS so maybe it's not as simple as the filter being at the end of its life and there are other issues at play?


----------



## Lee james

I'm starting to think there is nothing good about this jug. Besides the clunky dial, dodgy spout and being unable to see how much water is inside. There are the bigger issues of cartridges running out after 25-30L and this is common (tap is 320ppm) which makes it a very expensive option. The fishy smell is apparent even when the cartridge is still producing water around 110ppm (you cannot use this jug without a ppm meter as the ppm changes way too often). I'm wondering what is getting past the filter as the coffee generally tastes poor and I was better off using Ashbeck.


----------



## JoeBL

I have given up on my Peak jug, and gone back to the BWT jug with Magnesium cartridges. Much better results and lasts longer.


----------



## hellogeri

I just discovered the resin beads in my first-gen Peak jug and feel horrified as I've been using the filter not just for coffee, but for our elderly cat who requires filtered water for his kidney disease. Fortunately the beads all seem to sink to the very bottom of the jug, but I'm sorry-resin beads leaking into drinking water seems WAY more serious than everyone seems to be taking it? If this happened with Brita I feel like there'd be a clear recall of the product, so I'm very shocked that this issue hasn't been mentioned publicly and who knows how many people out there might be ingesting plastic unknowingly. For my husband and I, we only use the Peak with drip so it'd be filtered anyway, but I feel really upset about potentially giving it to our cat.

I've contacted them for a replacement but honestly I'm so annoyed at the poor build quality and resin leaks that I don't really know if I want to continue using them again.


----------



## Rob1

hellogeri said:


> I just discovered the resin beads in my first-gen Peak jug and feel horrified as I've been using the filter not just for coffee, but for our elderly cat who requires filtered water for his kidney disease. Fortunately the beads all seem to sink to the very bottom of the jug, but I'm sorry-resin beads leaking into drinking water seems WAY more serious than everyone seems to be taking it? If this happened with Brita I feel like there'd be a clear recall of the product, so I'm very shocked that this issue hasn't been mentioned publicly and who knows how many people out there might be ingesting plastic unknowingly. For my husband and I, we only use the Peak with drip so it'd be filtered anyway, but I feel really upset about potentially giving it to our cat.
> 
> I've contacted them for a replacement but honestly I'm so annoyed at the poor build quality and resin leaks that I don't really know if I want to continue using them again.


 I'm fairly certain the resins aren't 'plastic', and if they are the water is in contact with them for a long time anyway....I think it can be a fairly common problem with this type of filter but it's harmless. The real issue with the peak appears to be inconsistency and life of the filters.


----------



## hellogeri

Rob1 said:


> I'm fairly certain the resins aren't 'plastic', and if they are the water is in contact with them for a long time anyway....I think it can be a fairly common problem with this type of filter but it's harmless. The real issue with the peak appears to be inconsistency and life of the filters.


 That's good to know about the resin-needless to say without knowing exactly what's in it, some of the clear resin does look like plastic. Anyway, fortunately they've replied to my message and are replacing the filters as well as sending out the replacement parts for spillage and such-fingers crossed that sorts out the issues because of course I'd much rather support Peak than a bigger company like Brita or whatever.


----------



## DavecUK

@Rob1 I think these type of resins are actually plastic. Or what I would class as a plastic.

https://www.samcotech.com/ion-exchange-resin-work-process/


----------

