# Veloce......



## 4085

It landed this morning. None of the fuss or drama you would expect in unpacking it. All I had to do was screw the lever in and away we go. Now, I have been without a lever for 2 months so my mind has become infected with pump charachteristics!

The machine had been bench tested so I just filled the resevoir and away we went. The pump taking the water into the boiler is extremely quiet. I have forgotten what they used but it is not silent but very gentle. My L1 used to rattle when it drew water through! I set the machine up, vented the steam wand and did the same with the water arm, which is amazing. you can actually control this one! I got burnt so many times in a previous life it is untrue! The steam wand is powerful, or seems that way. it is a long arm with good matriculation and comes with a two tip that blows out of the sides, and a single tip with a hole which is well offset.

It seems very well put together. I could feel no rough edges or imperfections. There is room on top to store cups and the whole of the rear of the machine opens up to fill the 3 litre resevoir.

The machine took approximately 4.30 to come to pressure, which sits at around the 1.2 bar. Obviously that is not at working temperature. The next thing which is very noticeable, is that you do not need to do a weightlifting course to pull the lever. Even if you take the pf off to pull water through, it does not grab and try to snatch itself away from your grasp.

So, to the first shots. I have only pulled 4 so far, but I can see the charachteristics of this machine. My mind was mush and I had to really think about how to prepare the shot and pull it. The result was that I let the chanber empty, as opposed to pulling the shot away so it was over extracted The next attempt was weighed out and much closer. I need a couple of days to get onto auto pilot with this, so that is about it for the moment.

If anyone has any questions, please fire away and I will answer them if I can!


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## ronsil

That's looking very nice for a Lever. The obvious comparison is with the L1.

I'm sure you will let us know the differences. Are you going to try the Rave DSOL through it?.

Goes great with the V.....

Enjoy the coffee. At least you've got a steam wand that looks right:act-up:

Just noticed - the V..... refers to the Versalab not the other V


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## Mrboots2u

Beat me to it Ron.......


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## 4085

Gents, I need to get back into lever mode before I start woffling, but that will not take long! The first two shots through were DSOl and all I will say, is that they were obviously pulled on a lever, as the underlying taste profile is just un repeatable on a normal machine.

More to follow


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## Mrboots2u

What tip are you using On the steam wand

how long does it take to steam say 4 oz-8oz etc.

What's the recovery on the pstat like between shots

What's the cycle time on the pstat if left idle


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## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> What tip are you using On the steam wand
> 
> how long does it take to steam say 4 oz-8oz etc.
> 
> What's the recovery on the pstat like between shots
> 
> What's the cycle time on the pstat if left idle


Using the 2 hole at the moment. It is powerful and seems easy enough.

It took approximately 24 seconds for 4 ounces, butI will check when my son is available as this might be important for some.

No idea on the other 2 yet, but bearing in mind I have a Versalab and I am only drawing a small amount of water, I cannot foresee a problem!

Why don't you and Paddy come for a play?


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## sjenner

Congratulations David...

It will be interesting to note your comparative opinions...

Just the Idro to go now!


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## Soll

Congrats David I'll be keen on your thoughts in the coming weeks once you settle in with it, in particular the comparisons with the L1.


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## DavidBondy

Congratulations David. Looking forward to reports over the coming days!!


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## The Systemic Kid

Good to hear you've got your Veloce at last David. Nice pairing with the Versalab too.


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## Viernes

I envy that drip tray









Congrats!

Perhaps it's interchangeable with the londinium?


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## Orangertange

I doubt it, machines got quite a lot smaller footprint,

I personally dont mind the l1 drip tray,in looks, just wish the patten was tooled a bit differently so annoying that when you use a naked it doesn't go through a gap just makes a puddle


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## 4085

why not put a cup under to catch the residue, thats what I do!


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## Orangertange

Yeah I do most of the time, (especally as it's the old style) but don't always have one handy,

would work so much better if the pattern was in reverse itms, guess it was designed for the spouted pfs


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## Orangertange

The design on this machine looks very well thought out though, especially like the description of the lever, not wanting leap out if your hand

can be a bit concerning on "the other machine" especially if guests want a go


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## Mrboots2u

Why would the spring have less give in it then in a similar ish group. Confused why one would have drastically more or less "give " in it....


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## Viernes

More give = more pressure?

Than the l1?


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## Orangertange

Guess it's a weaker spring??


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## Mrboots2u

Viernes said:


> More give = more pressure?
> 
> Than the l1?


Yep to both the above ...

Interesting ....more pressure good or bad . dunno?


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## iroko

Congrats David, looks very nice.

Looking forward to more of your observations.

Is the spring not the same as the LI as It's the same group?


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## coffeechap

I think this is a little wishful thinking, both groups are identical and if anything the veloce prototype was harder to pull than the l1 so I cannot see that this one would be easier. I will give a definitive on this when input them side by side, must be the placebo effect if having a lovely lever again dave


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## 4085

Nope, my last L 1 was very stiff, despite the denials. I cannot remember further back than that, but both myself and my son immediately thought this to require far less beef. I accept totally of course, until Tuesday when Dave gets his that I might be talking nonsense since there is most rational explanation!


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## drude

Very nice setup. The shelf worries me, though - looks a bit like that old mousetrap game. The Veloce lever goes back, knocks the stack of boxes, can goes next, then the mug tree, jug hits the filter baskets and next thing the Versalab is spitting out little pieces of metal.


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## TonyW

Lovely setup, David. Lovely!


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## Jollybean

Lovely looking lever David. Looking forward to your thoughts on it once you get into full swing


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## 4085

If I manage to get my grinding label put onto the M3 (the point of reference thing) then I shall wallop into the HB stuff today!. That shelf behind my machine has passed all the tests you can think of by the way! I have just managed to source a 10 cup cup tree. There was a 24 cup one but thats a bit daft. With the machine being narrow and tall although you can use the top as a cup warmer I think I will just have a couple on there for show.


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## robin taylor

I love everything about this - large boiler etc. One question - is there flex in the group/chassis when pulling the lever?


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## 4085

I will leave Dave to answer that one. I have not noticed any.


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## coffeechap

Will know if they have improved the flexing when I get one tomorrow


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## Thecatlinux

Shiny shiny new machiney ,


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## hotmetal

Drool.


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## TonyW

Am I right in thinking that the Veloce has an insulated boiler, David?


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## 4085

I believe it has. Certainly the photos I put up a few days ago at the factory showed that. I know the other Dave has his on the bench now but has not taken the sides off yet, but will be soon enough!


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## coffeechap

boiler on the prototype was insulated so no reason why this is not will know tomorrow


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## coffeechap

Ok mine arrived to day beautifully packaged as ever by the team at Bella Barista. I have only had the chance to pull half a dozen shots on this so I can only give a first impressions viewpoint straight out the box and onto the Bench.

I echo Davids points on heat up time, from filling up the tank and switching on the machine, it was up to pressure in about 8 minutes, however with a cold group. I flushed throught a few cups of water to artificial raise the temp in the group and left the machine for a further 10 minutes to bring the group up to temp.

First impressions are very positive, Quickmill have changed the steam and hot water knobs to toggles, which are very responsive and have a very good feel about them, the steam is very easy to control and the hot water flows without spattering. The dial is nice and easy to read and the simple finish is very pleasing on the eye.

I have to say that the group has been very well prepared by the team at quickmill, the lever action is super smooth and indicative of a perfectly greased cylinder. The lever meachanism is excellent, there still appears to be a little tipping of the machine but only if you pull the lever straight towards you. Normal operation of the lever ( pulling straight down) elicits no tipping. ( I will post more on this on the in depth review, but am looking to solve this issue with a bolt on). There is a small amount of flexon the front panel but less than the prototype so it appears quickmill have put measures in place to solve this issue.

The toggles and lever handle, although plastic, have a nice feel to them and function perfectly. the panel fit is snug and is nicely put together (externally). I will open here up and take a load of pictures when I get into the review in a couple of weeks.

In the cup, performance is pretty much the same as the L1, so right up my street and anyone elses that is interested in a top end lever group machine. The shots were the familiar spectrum of flavours that I have become acustommed to on the L1.

Thats all for now but I am really looking forward to properly putting this through its paces and doing an in depth review.


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## Dano

So mine just showed up.

This my first Lever machine. I've had an Andreja Premium since 2003 (one of the first U.S. spec QM's sold) so this should be fun learning the ins and outs. My initial impression right out of the box, and coming from the Andreja is that this thing is a beast. Also I had missed that they had switched from knobs to levers for the steam and hot water. I prefer this setup, as I had upgraded my old machine to this a couple of years ago.

I've attached a couple of unboxing pics and will update everyone after I get the chance to run it a bit.







Also if there are an big gotcha's w/ a lever machine I should be ready for a a noob please let me know.


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## Mrboots2u

Yeah don't let to of the lever when your flushing the group

Don't let go of the lever til you feel it catch on the way up ...

Leave some headroom in the PF for the pre infusion to work it's magic

Apart from that enjoy


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## 4085

Dano, the whole scenario is very different. On the whole, you grind a little finer and tamp a little lighter. Pull the lever all the way down, count to 6 as a starting point, and return the lever, keeping hold of it. You will feel it catch, part of the way up and then the spring takes over and you can let go. Do not start counting the time of your shot until the first drops appear, and by that, I mean the flow starts rather then the first droplet appears., Aim for 25 to 30 seconds. You do not want to capture all the shot.

If you get three shot glasses and capture the first 7 in one, the next 15 in the second and the rest in the third and taste them you will notice a big difference. Some people capture 1 & 2, some just 2, few include 3 as it is rank normally!

Just ask away, it is a very different life but really rewarding!


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## Dano

So I've pulled two shots so far. The first tasted pretty good, but the pull was off. I never really got the resistance as the lever went up, so had to keep control throughout the whole pour and the pour was too quick. I did my next pull w/ more grounds, which appeared to be more resistance than the spring could handle as I never got the flow above a dribble and it took forever to exhaust the pressure in the cylinder. tomorrow I plan on playing around with the grind and dosing some more to dial it in.

I'm just thankful I can finally make a nice cappucino, latte and/or espresso at home as I've only found one good coffeeshop at this point, and it is a bit of a hike from where I'm living.


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## TonyW

Welcome to the wonderful world of levers, Dano.

A good starting point for dose/grind is to stick at 16g in and adjust your grind and tamp pressure until you're pulling around 27g out in 27 seconds.

I just make small adjustments going finer - I choked my lever in the early days and its not a good thing .


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## Mrboots2u

TonyW said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of levers, Dano.
> 
> A good starting point for dose/grind is to stick at 16g in and adjust your grind and tamp pressure until you're pulling around 27g out in 27 seconds.
> 
> I just make small adjustments going finer - I choked my lever in the early days and its not a good thing .


What he said above ^^^^

Constant dose to start say 16g

Keep pre infusion same each time say 3 seconds

Adjust grind only til you hit 27g in 27 seconds

Time from first stream of coffee don't count pre infusion time

Taste report back









Have fun


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## NickR

Surely the shot should be timed from the moment water hits the puck. As per David Schomer.


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## Mrboots2u

NickR said:


> Surely the shot should be timed from the moment water hits the puck. As per David Schomer.


You can time it how you want nick it's entirely up to you

Why it is this way I don't know but historically users and based shots on time from drops in the cup as opposed to when pre infusion starts

I quote this method for time because that how most of early adopters quote times for the l1 and levers , so it helps to understands that we all are quoting the same time for the same thing

Personally I time my pre infusion and then look at the scales, I have no idea how long my shots are or aren't nowadays


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## 4085

a pump pushes a set amount of pressure through the puck from switching it on to switching it off. a lever has a reduced amount of pressure to start with and this tails away as the shot is pulled, therefore with a lever it is quite normal to start your timing from when the drops show or flow starts. You can vast the pre infusion by bringing finer/coarser or tamping lighter/harder.


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## coffeechap

I time from when the lever is raised after preinfusion, so when pressure hits the back of the puck


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## Mrboots2u

There u go .. All different . From first drops , from raising lever , or not at all.

What's a few seconds here or there between friends.....


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## 4085

Dave, what happens if you have maybe a lighter bean which requires a far longer pre infusion? I normally leave the lever down (bearing mind most of my beans are in the same roast vicinity`) for 6 seconds and once I raise the lever the flow normally starts (assuming all things equal) with 3 or 4 seconds. But, I have had pre infusion take 20 seconds before. If you included that in your 30, you are going to have a very short shot?


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## sjenner

Surely a pre-infusion of 20 seconds or so is moving away from espresso and getting into brewing territory?

We do have the luxury of being able to infinitely vary the length of pre-infusion with a lever, but more than ten seconds?

I usually look for around 3 - 5 seconds, and alter the grind to suit. I count from when the first drops drop, or form on the shower screen, depending on whether I am standing or crouching.


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## 4085

Ah, I was not meaning aim for 20 seconds! I just used that as an example of what can happen


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## Mrboots2u

20 second pre infusion would probably result in a pretty quick extraction ( depending on grind obviously. )


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## Dano

So here's my report back on the Veloce after 3 weeks.

I was kinda worried about the learning curve with the lever, but it hasn't been bad. After the first couple of shots I posted about I spent the second day I had the machine playing around w/ different grinds and dosage. I had 2 different coffees to start with from a local roaster (Maison Blanche Dael) here in Maastricht. I got to the point where I was pulling ~27 grams from 16 consistently. I counted my time from when I let the lever go, after a 5ish second preinfusion.

For the first week or so I was pulling not god shots, but at least good shots.

Week 2 was a bit of a problem. Somewhere along the line my grinder started to take a really long time to grind the right amount and the grind was all over the place so the shots were either way to fast or choking the lever. I pulled the hopper off once or twice but didn't see a issue. Finally I bought a different coffee from the same roaster so I decided t grind up the last little bit of the old coffee and take a look at the burrs. Turns out a small plastic piece from my vacuum canister had fallen in the coffee and then been dumped into the grinder. Luckily it didn't seem to cause any lasting issue, and I was able to dial in the new beans pretty easily.

Now I'm at the point were I'm getting consistently good to great shots

It was kind of strange at first how little noise the machine makes. Even when the pump comes on it is much quieter than the Andreja. I know this makes sense since you shouldn't need anywhere near as much pressure to push water into the boiler vs through a puck.

The other features of the machine are pretty much like any other I've used. It gives a good amount of steam and my wife uses the hot water tap for tea.

I'd been considering an L1 after I got over to Europe, but considering the price difference and the fact that I don't know what I'm missing with the L1 since this is the only lever I've used I'm very happy with the Veloce.


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## iroko

Thanks for the update, sounds like your enjoying your machine after the shaky start.


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## stefanolo

Springlevers FTW! It's really interesting to see how this plague is spreading







New springlever machines are hitting the market and more and more home baristas are seeing the light. Hope you will enjoy your QM Veloce! For me there's no going back! My L1 stays.


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## Dano

Got an email last week that my bottomless portafilter was shipped out by BB. Any of the other early adopters received theirs yet?


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## Soll

Got mine last week


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## 4085

Received mine as well and Al has his. The Verona handles are lovely!


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## Dano

I got mine last week, and I noticed that it seems I have better, more persistent crema with the bottomless. This is really noticeable as I have gotten OK crema up till now, but it has not had any persistence. I had done some research on the persistence issue and found that this is not abnormal with levers, but didn't realize a bottomless could correct for this. As I started using the bottomless and noticing the difference I had to do more research to find that, yes the lack of a spout and bottom could make a big difference. It's amazing that after all these years I still learn new info about the art of espresso.

Cheers

Dano


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## 4085

It is funny! Bottomless extractions do absolutely nothing for me at all and I much prefer the spouts. Have you had a spoonful of cream on its own Dano? It varies from bean to bean of course with age playing apart,but I find it usually unpleasant on its own!


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## ronsil

Just for all our new coffee followers & keeping the record correct, there is nothing better than a 'bottomless' to keep an eye on distribution.

On any machine a naked will indicate work to be done on distribution leading to better tasting coffee.

Agree that 'crema' on its own is not the most pleasant of drinks.


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## Dano

dfk41 said:


> It is funny! Bottomless extractions do absolutely nothing for me at all and I much prefer the spouts. Have you had a spoonful of cream on its own Dano? It varies from bean to bean of course with age playing apart,but I find it usually unpleasant on its own!


Crema by itself isn't all that great, but on straight shots it does contribute to the mouth feel of the drink. Also I've been trying to learn latte art and if you don't have much crema it is difficult to do.


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