# Dalian vs Topper 1kg electric



## Hoggr20

What is the view on the Dalian vs Topper pro's and con's of each?


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## Mrboots2u

@DavecUK


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## Hoggr20

I've read DavecUK thread on the Dalian, very informative and a lot of work done developing the machine for the UK and the reason why I'm asking the question


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## RDC8

I own a Dalian Amazon and the biggest plus for me was that is plugs into a standard domestic 3-pin socket. Also, it is considerably cheaper than the Toper!

With the Dalian, ROR is controlled by moving dampers to control air-flow through the roaster; this aspect can be quite a steep learning curve. Overall, I am certainly very pleased with this roaster. The reviews by davecuk are very honest and give an in-depth look at the machine.

I have no experience with the Toper - other than what I have read on the internet while making my decision on which roaster to get.

There are now quite a few forum members with the Dalian Amazon, not sure how many (if any) have a toper for home use.

Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the Dalian.


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## johnealey

No direct use of a Toper but do have an Amazon.

Given what you are wanting to do in the future and starting from scratch so to speak, you could do a lot worse than invest in what is turning out to an outstanding kilo roaster with very few of the issues that other brands seem to have at this price / drum size. Plus and this is probably the big plus for me, there's a few Amazon owners on here always happy to share ideas plus, as you've already discovered, DaveC, who knows more about this roaster than most would know about other brands of 1Kg roasters on here.

Easy supply of parts, should you need them, even comes with a well written set of instruction books that is also written by Dave (assuming you buy through Bella Barista and would suggest you do, service is very good indeed).

You would need to spend a fair bit and move up drum sizes to gain any major improvements and in doing so have to move to Gas or restrict yourself to a 2-2.5kg roaster (FZ-94 Pro comes to mind, silly money, with lots of potential to tinker)

Second hand? have seen 1 Amazon and 1 Gene 1200 come up for sale in the last 2-3 years on here so probably not an option if you in a hurry.

Hope of some help.

John


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## Coffeejon

Still very happy with my Bullet R1 (just to add to the mix)


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## DavecUK

Hoggr20 said:


> What is the view on the Dalian vs Topper pro's and con's of each?


I have had both roasters and the Dalian is the better roaster...the Dalian:


Roasts More evenly

Much Cheaper

Better constructed (Toper very crude)

Smaller and lighter

Better thermometry

More control

Ability to easily add power control for £5

Quieter

Easier to service and maintain

Better bean cooling

Good UK support


Saw the mention of the Bullet.....unlike the bullet the Dalian Amazon isn't needy on cleaning, maintenance, or reliability. Ridiculous amount of things users on the Bullet facebook user group are having to do. It's a proper commercial grade roaster and judging from the few roast bean photos I have seen from Bullet users, gives a better roasting result..


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## Hoggr20

Thanks for all your feedback very useful and appreciated. Just need B.B. to return my calls now.


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## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> I have had both roasters and the Dalian is the better roaster...the Dalian:
> 
> 
> Roasts More evenly
> 
> Much Cheaper
> 
> Better constructed (Toper very crude)
> 
> Smaller and lighter
> 
> Better thermometry
> 
> More control
> 
> Ability to easily add power control for £5
> 
> Quieter
> 
> Easier to service and maintain
> 
> Better bean cooling
> 
> Good UK support
> 
> 
> Saw the mention of the Bullet.....unlike the bullet the Dalian Amazon isn't needy on cleaning, maintenance, or reliability. Ridiculous amount of things users on the Bullet facebook user group are having to do. It's a proper commercial grade roaster and judging from the few roast bean photos I have seen from Bullet users, gives a better roasting result..


Be nice to allow me to comment without you criticizing the bullet every time I write. Are you sure you are not paid to do this, as I find it a little odd?


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## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> Be nice to allow me to comment without you criticizing the bullet every time I write. Are you sure you are not paid to do this, as I find it a little odd?


 Well firstly this thread wasn't about the Bullet, it was about Toper vs Dalian but you just needed to get in there with your Bullet. @Coffeejon You got me, every time I mention anything that could be construed as criticism of the Bullet, a cheque mysteriously arrives in the post. Perhaps it's Bella Barista paying me?

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/aillio-bullet-r1-roaster.html

*No, they look like the are going to sell it sometime, I don't think they are paying me (thanks for the comment though)*..... It's also not CE approved yet is it? In fact I was asked to review it and refused, because I don't think it's great *based on enthusiastic owner experiences:*


Not CE approved

Unclear warranty terms, certainly not covered under UK distance selling rules

IR window has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling)

Chaff filter has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling)

Can't properly back to back roast, have to wait for roaster too cool down before next roasting sequence can start

Users have to do own repairs and modifications

Leaks orange oily liquid from roasting (insufficient airflow of the right type)

People all to0 often have to tighten the drive pulley

Leaks chaff from lower front of roaster during roasting

Roaster front hatch sometimes comes open with full load of beans

Beans don't always fall in to the cooling tray when dumping

Cooling performance is a little lacking

Chaff removal from the beans does not seem great

Hard to vent effectively, need to 3d print exhaust adaptor for roaster, nothing available for chaff collector.

Can't remember if a tryer is standard now or not?

large number of modifications to make up for basic design issues

People rarely seem to roast 1kg, usually it's 500-800g (I believe it struggles a bit with 1kg).


I'm sure there are plenty of others people only have to join the facebook group (and have a good read of it all to find out). You will of course say if I won't review it I can't know what I am talking about, but for me, I have *seen enough posts from VERY enthusiastic owners to realise this is not something I want to review*. Based on the RRP of the thing *I can't imagine why anyone would not want to pay £800 more for a Dalian Amazon. *I don't see many photos of roasted beans from the bullet on the Web, but many I have seen, don't look great, this of course could be down to the operator. Operators seem more interested in posting photos of graphs.

This is the first post where I have really detailed my issues with the roaster...so enjoy.

P.S. I also see the bullet recommended for business, where I really don't think it's up to it.

P.P.S. I don't get paid in any way for Dalian Amazon sales either!


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## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> Well firstly this thread wasn't about the Bullet, it was about Toper vs Dalian but you just needed to get in there with your Bullet. @Coffeejon You got me, every time I mention anything that could be construed as criticism of the Bullet, a cheque mysteriously arrives in the post. Perhaps it's Bella Barista paying me?
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/aillio-bullet-r1-roaster.html
> 
> *No, they look like the are going to sell it sometime, I don't think they are paying me (thanks for the comment though)*..... It's also not CE approved yet is it? In fact I was asked to review it and refused, because I don't think it's great *based on enthusiastic owner experiences:*
> 
> 
> Not CE approved
> 
> Unclear warranty terms, certainly not covered under UK distance selling rules
> 
> IR window has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling)
> 
> Chaff filter has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling)
> 
> Can't properly back to back roast, have to wait for roaster too cool down before next roasting sequence can start
> 
> Users have to do own repairs and modifications
> 
> Leaks orange oily liquid from roasting (insufficient airflow of the right type)
> 
> People all to0 often have to tighten the drive pulley
> 
> Leaks chaff from lower front of roaster during roasting
> 
> Roaster front hatch sometimes comes open with full load of beans
> 
> Beans don't always fall in to the cooling tray when dumping
> 
> Cooling performance is a little lacking
> 
> Chaff removal from the beans does not seem great
> 
> Hard to vent effectively, need to 3d print exhaust adaptor for roaster, nothing available for chaff collector.
> 
> Can't remember if a tryer is standard now or not?
> 
> large number of modifications to make up for basic design issues
> 
> People rarely seem to roast 1kg, usually it's 500-800g (I believe it struggles a bit with 1kg).
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of others people only have to join the facebook group (and have a good read of it all to find out). You will of course say if I won't review it I can't know what I am talking about, but for me, I have *seen enough posts from VERY enthusiastic owners to realise this is not something I want to review*. Based on the RRP of the thing *I can't imagine why anyone would not want to pay £800 more for a Dalian Amazon. *I don't see many photos of roasted beans from the bullet on the Web, but many I have seen, don't look great, this of course could be down to the operator. Operators seem more interested in posting photos of graphs.
> 
> This is the first post where I have really detailed my issues with the roaster...so enjoy.
> 
> P.S. I also see the bullet recommended for business, where I really don't think it's up to it.
> 
> P.P.S. I don't get paid in any way for Dalian Amazon sales either!


Thx for the detailed post (you have more time than me)

Again, we're all free to give an opinion, I was just offering a different perspective and don't expect to be shot down (every time) I mentioned an alternative view (or roaster).

Happy roasting


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## Densven

Well that escalated quickly..

I just bought myself a second hand Dalian Amazon after looking about at other 1kg roasters. The toper was in the list but after hearing more people moan about it and how fragile and unreliable they are, I decided it was not an option. At all. In fact I cant think of one positive comment that came from someone who owned one. I also looked at the Bullet (Sorry Dave, don't shoot me) but decided against it as firstly it was hard to find one in the UK and secondly it just didn't really look the part of a sturdy production roaster. Probably good if you want to go all geeky with the profiling and only do a couple of roasts at a time.

Lastly the Dalian is a sexy looking machine. Mine is here in the workroom and I find myself just looking at it all the time. I bought mine to do back to back roasting over 4 hrs and one day if I finally get a coffee shop it would look amazing in it. So if you can get one - GET ONE!

As mentioned there is loads of info on this forum about the machine and in the manuals. Certainly more than any other machine I came across.

Hope that helps. Just my thoughts and opinion for you, if its worth anything.


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## Coffeejon

Well done, I hope it works out for you.

I got the bullet because it can be fully automated, which is ideal for a small coffee shop. I agree, it's probably not as sturdy as the Topper or the Dalian, but neither of those could do what I needed (i.e automation)

All the best


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## Kilo

I have a Bullet. And like it. DavecUK s remarks don't do justice to the machine. Although many of them are true. Dave did his research obviously.

But there could be a list of positive points as well. Though I agree it is not very well suited for commercial intensive operation.


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## Hoggr20

Finally have made the purchase have the Dalian scheduled to be delivered on Friday


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## Beeroclock

Coffeejon and Kilo, I for one would be very interested in hearing more about the Bullet - There dosen't seem to be anything quite like it on the market and I believe it's a very interesting concept and it will definitely be on my list should I look at a larger capacity roaster.

Cheers Phil


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## Coffeejon

Beeroclock said:


> Coffeejon and Kilo, I for one would be very interested in hearing more about the Bullet - There dosen't seem to be anything quite like it on the market and I believe it's a very interesting concept and it will definitely be on my list should I look at a larger capacity roaster.
> 
> Cheers Phil


Thx Phil, Happy to chat about the Bullet. (I've replied to your PM)


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## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> Not CE approved
> 
> Unclear warranty terms, certainly not covered under UK distance selling rules
> 
> IR window has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling)
> 
> Chaff filter has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling)
> 
> Can't properly back to back roast, have to wait for roaster too cool down before next roasting sequence can start
> 
> Users have to do own repairs and modifications
> 
> Leaks orange oily liquid from roasting (insufficient airflow of the right type)
> 
> People all to0 often have to tighten the drive pulley
> 
> Leaks chaff from lower front of roaster during roasting
> 
> Roaster front hatch sometimes comes open with full load of beans
> 
> Beans don't always fall in to the cooling tray when dumping
> 
> Cooling performance is a little lacking
> 
> Chaff removal from the beans does not seem great
> 
> Hard to vent effectively, need to 3d print exhaust adaptor for roaster, nothing available for chaff collector.
> 
> Can't remember if a tryer is standard now or not?
> 
> large number of modifications to make up for basic design issues
> 
> People rarely seem to roast 1kg, usually it's 500-800g (I believe it struggles a bit with 1kg).


Apologies for adapting this thread to talk about the Bullet, but due to being approached by a few people of late about the bullet I thought I'd come back to it.


Not CE approved *- No it currently isn't but they say it will be in the near future (I believe them as it's in their own interest to do so)*

Unclear warranty terms, certainly not covered under UK distance selling rules *- I understood it is 1 year Parts Warranty (was 2 years for Early adopters which they have totally fulfilled in my personal experience)*

IR window has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling) *- Yes true, though is easily done with 6 allen screws*

Chaff filter has to be cleaned every 4-10kg (requires some dismantling) *- Yes true, though again easy as a the filter pops off. Also all of my previous roasters needed cleaning & maintenance, so this is just part of having a roaster.*

Can't properly back to back roast, have to wait for roaster too cool down before next roasting sequence can start *- You can do this now with a previous software update*

Users have to do own repairs and modifications *- Repairs yes (as again waiting for CE, so can be sold & maintained in UK. So until that point 1 year part warranty, which is fine. Modification, not sure about this point as most people on this site have modded their gene cafe, Dalian etc & you don't have to if you don't want to.*

Leaks orange oily liquid from roasting (insufficient airflow of the right type) *- People don't have enough air flow, so water is not being expelled enough via the vent (the same with many roasters, just turn up the fan speed)*

People all to0 often have to tighten the drive pulley *- This was/is due to being shipped & needs checking before using (though mostly now you don't with latest machines)*

Leaks chaff from lower front of roaster during roasting *- Again this is due to to low air flow & easily corrected*

Roaster front hatch sometimes comes open with full load of beans *- Problem with early machines due to a screw, now fixed*

Beans don't always fall in to the cooling tray when dumping *- Yes the odd bean comes out the side, but nothing much. Aillio I believe will add a side fin in the future*
*
*


*Cooling performance is a little lacking - If you keep your cooling basket clean, it should not be an issue*

Chaff removal from the beans does not seem great *- Not sure about this, as works perfectly well for me with the new filter (all machines now shipped have this filter installed)*

Hard to vent effectively, need to 3d print exhaust adaptor for roaster, nothing available for chaff collector. *- You do need to get a 3rd party adapters, though these parts are easily downloaded on their website & sent to a 3d printer (there is someone on this forum did it for me, not expense). You can download both the roaster & cooling tray adapters files*

Can't remember if a tryer is standard now or not? *Yes it is*

large number of modifications to make up for basic design issues *- again this was the early adopter models most now fixed (mine still going strong)*

People rarely seem to roast 1kg, usually it's 500-800g (I believe it struggles a bit with 1kg). *- Not true (people are roasting 1.2kg's on it, but I would not) I've learnt that you need a higher pre-heat properly roast 1kg. All part of learning to use a new machine.*


"I have seen enough posts from VERY enthusiastic owners to realise this is not something I want to review. Based on the RRP of the thing I can't imagine why anyone would not want to pay £800 more for a Dalian Amazon" *- Well the fact is, you buy it because you want a roaster that records and play backs you roasts digitally. I swap my primary bullet profiles to my secondary bullet via usb, which then allows me mirror my roasts, amazing. Also you can down load others profiles to give you a starting point & save wasting loads of beans as you learn, really helpful.*

P.S. I also see the bullet recommended for business, where I really don't think it's up to it. *- I do think it very much up to it, as I have x2 and they are great machines. Many professional roasters are now using it, as it is a great addition to their larger roasters to do test roasts & smaller batches*



*
*I very much hope that gives a balanced view of a very good roaster.


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## DavecUK

Jon, you certainly are a man with a mission re the Bullet and the Dalian. The truth of it is if people want to buy a Bullet when it appear in the UK rather than a Dalian for not that much more...then they are free to do so. I personally absolutely know which roaster I would choose having roasted on quite a few roasters now including a 1kg Toper, Coffee Tech, Dalian and 25kg Probat among many other smaller roaster and now with well over 10 years roasting experience. it not being my first trip around the block. I see BB have sold out of Dalians again so I guess will be waiting for new stock.

I would suggest you start a Bullet thread on the forum to share photos and information about your roasts, this will allow other owners to share their experiences and encourage others to buy the roaster.


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## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> Jon, you certainly are a man with a mission re the Bullet and the Dalian. The truth of it is if people want to buy a Bullet when it appear in the UK rather than a Dalian for not that much more...then they are free to do so. I personally absolutely know which roaster I would choose having roasted on quite a few roasters now including a 1kg Toper, Coffee Tech, Dalian and 25kg Probat among many other smaller roaster and now with well over 10 years roasting experience. it not being my first trip around the block. I see BB have sold out of Dalians again so I guess will be waiting for new stock.
> 
> I would suggest you start a Bullet thread on the forum to share photos and information about your roasts, this will allow other owners to share their experiences and encourage others to buy the roaster.


Hi Dave

Thx for the discussion, it's been interesting and I have learnt allot from it. It's not so much a mission, just would like to give the people who are interested in the bullet to come to a balanced decision. (as i'm being asked more about it now)

I again personally would recommend the bullet, (not that I don't think the Dalian is a bad roaster, (as you say it's selling well) though I'm sure it's far from perfect) as it suits my needs much better. Also there are now many pro roasters (with equal if not more experience than you) who are enjoying the bullet as much as myself.

Rather than repeat things, all photos & discussions (by myself and others) can be found on the facebook page https://www.facebook.com/groups/1667530986833160/

again, I apologies for using this thread


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## Beeroclock

Hmmm not sure what's going on but from a neutral point of view can't see how Coffeejon is on any more of a mission with the Bullet, than Dave C is with the Dalian or the Versuvius for that matter. Besides I see the two as completely different solutions...

what's great is there's choices


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## DavecUK

Beeroclock said:


> Hmmm not sure what's going on but from a neutral point of view can't see how Coffeejon is on any more of a mission with the Bullet, than Dave C is with the Dalian or the Versuvius for that matter. Besides I see the two as completely different solutions...
> 
> what's great is there's choices


I guess the difference is I wouldn't be joining a thread about the Bullet in the same way.


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