# Tikada CB1 Grinder



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

It seems the grinder that we have discussed about in the past (from the German coffee forum) is now available:

http://www.tidaka.net/de/Kaffeemuehle-CB1.html

Specs looks good, powerful motor and it uses Mazzer conical burrs, 63mm so I am guessing the Kony ones.

From a brief look: If the size is small (e.g VL height), there is a way to hide the ugly motor, if the distribution system is good (looks similar to the VL one), has low retention AND if it can grind as well as the big Titans (since it shares the burrs) then this could be a winner.

P.S. This is the original thread from Kaffee Netz with more info and pics:

http://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/sammelbestellung-fuer-die-cbcrema-muehle.61780/page-23


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Some bigger pics here:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tidakas-Tamper-Trichter/177169315711579


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I had not seen this before, it will be very interesting if it compares favourably to the VL.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

This is the one they only made 30 of before eh?


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> This is the one they only made 30 of before eh?


I think these are the first 30 and they have sold 6 so far.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Dylan said:


> I had not seen this before, it will be very interesting if it compares favourably to the VL.


A big difference is that this is conical while the VL is flat.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Ah right, i thought the first 30 all went immediately. There was a thread about them before and they sounded really interesting


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?18220

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?18197


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

interesting, as that will be not much more than the money people pay frank to modify and already 2000 euro grinder !!! very interesting, plus german engineering, we all know how they love tolerences.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Somewhere in Whitley bay there is man which his hand hovering over the

" buy " button now


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

charris said:


> A big difference is that this is conical while the VL is flat.


Is the VL not a 'hybrid' design?


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Dylan said:


> Is the VL not a 'hybrid' design?


Yes, but the conical burrs are just used to break initially the beans.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

From sjenner's post in the previous threads:



> I hope that they decide to make more of them than thirty... I got the impression (the German language translates badly into English) that the thirty pieces were the highly polished ones.
> 
> Anyway, I spent some time reading the thread, and it seems to me that it solves the known potential faults with the Versalab:
> 
> ...


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

the vl conical burrs allow for a shallower than usual gradiant on the flat burrs as the coffee is broken down before getting into the flats, it also helps the compleytel underpowered motor to manage the beans.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Another interesting post from another forum with some good questions also:



> Looks interesting. They chose for that specific motor because it's an industrial standard fit making it future proof, easy to modify. Bean pressure on the burrs is calculated for with the thickness of the feeder tube and size of the burr chamber (kept as small as possible to avoid beans popping). The back box has two big condensors in it for startup. On/off switch is a big robust switch that cuts off all phases. A timer can be applied later by using a photo timer. It will come completely disassembled to lower the costs.
> 
> The only big question I have is how do you align the burrs on this machine? Did I miss it? I could only find something about them using 1/100 mm. tolerances and the burr collar being planar attached when assembling letting you align it during the build, but how about after? And is it only planar?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

30 available, 6 sold, supplied as a kit........not even remotely interested


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> 30 available, 6 sold, supplied as a kit........not even remotely interested


Yet............


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Did I buy a mouse speak? I stated publically I did not want one and if you think I would invest this dosh into an unproven item viewable only via google translate then you are bonkers


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

perhaps he is....


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

" did I buy a mouse squeak "

Not yet.......


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Am not biting. What you seem to forget, is that because I have had a long list of equipment, then I either have too much money or am stupid. I have owned a lot of kit. Sure I lose out when I buy the odd thing brand new, but I am happy to rent something for a couple of months. I also make decent money on the vast majority of things I buy which is more than a lot on here can say! Believe me, when I say I do not want an EK43 or one of these Tidaka things, I mean it!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

say it with more conviction dag num it


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> say it with more conviction dag num it


Yeah - dfk is known for his namby pamby, pussy footing manner!!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Am not biting. What you seem to forget, is that because I have had a long list of equipment, then I either have too much money or am stupid. I have owned a lot of kit. Sure I lose out when I buy the odd thing brand new, but I am happy to rent something for a couple of months. I also make decent money on the vast majority of things I buy which is more than a lot on here can say! Believe me, when I say I do not want an EK43 or one of these Tidaka things, I mean it!


For now......


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have a GS 3, a Vesuvius, a K10 Pro Barista, a Mythos, a Veloce. I think For Now, that speaks enough Bootsie baby


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have a GS 3, a Vesuvius, a K10 Pro Barista, a Mythos, a Veloce. I think For Now, that speaks enough Bootsie baby


Til when ......


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Till I decide to sell some or all and buy something else of course. Why limit yourself to an L1 and an EK, being unhappy with the setup and constantly wishing you had something else Martin?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have a GS 3, a Vesuvius, a K10 Pro Barista, a Mythos, a Veloce. I think For Now, that speaks enough Bootsie baby


Is it time for our week lemon drink now .......


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Till I decide to sell some or all and buy something else of course. Why limit yourself to an L1 and an EK, being unhappy with the setup and constantly wishing you had something else Martin?


Or to one coffee .....


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If by our you mean your, then pour away. Me, I prefer sweeter drinks


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ooooo you two are like little school girls


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Not sure I understand your latest jibe. I buy lots of different coffee though enjoy Jampit of course. But then, having so many different options when it comes to making a drink or choosing the kit, I need different beans. Least my kit ,makes traditional espresso. I have not had to make a new drink style, unlike you


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

kidd with the kit and boots with the ???????


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

you guys should be made to use a moka pot for a month....


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> ooooo you two are like little school girls


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not mind using a mokka pot.......I might have to buy a new grinder though


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


>


I hope to god, you are the one on the right


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I do not mind using a mokka pot.......I might have to buy a new grinder though


There a german one that's been talked about in here

Same company that makes rice I think

Oh that's Tilda


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

perhaps a nice old hobart? oh there is another one missed off the list


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You would know all about rice, having a disguised spice grinder


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Christ ! Drink some coffee


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Christ ! Drink some coffee


It's too late


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I mean in general


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Oh no, am I outnumbered now.......? Rather drink coffee prepared on a traditional coffee grinder than one of those things that looks like a leg nicked off the Eiffel Tower


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I don't own one or am prepared to spend that kind of money on a grinder (at the moment)







. But I have to say that the shot that Callum pulled using an EK and an L1 with Foundry beans at the day at Rave has to be one of the best I've ever tasted.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

a non ek owner does you too dave, i think you should leave it alone before the others come out...


----------



## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

Nice to see another low retention grinder. Hope it delivers the goods.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Southpaw said:


> Nice to see another low retention grinder. Hope it delivers the goods.


Extra low retention and titan conical. Is it possible though?


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> interesting, as that will be not much more than the money people pay frank to modify and already 2000 euro grinder !!!


And only 30% more than what you paid just for the spare parts at Versalab, incl. shipping + tax when you needed a new controller


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

and still not got a motor that is right, quite expensive those versalabs really, nice to see another grinder come along that is not a ridiculous price.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Terranova said:


> And only 30% more than what you paid just for the spare parts at Versalab, incl. shipping + tax when you needed a new controller


maths was your strong subject at school then


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> and still not got a motor that is right, quite expensive those versalabs really, nice to see another grinder come along that is not a ridiculous price.


I also find it a good alternative to a Mazzer Mini or so, but assembling it with a level ( spirit says the translator that water thing) seems to me quite strange if alignment plays a major role, but who knows....


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

I sucked in math like you do in grammar


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ha ha says the native english speaker!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Terranova said:


> I also find it a good alternative to a Mazzer Mini or so, but assembling it with a level ( spirit says the translator that water thing) seems to me quite strange if alignment plays a major role, but who knows....


only an alternative to a mazzer mini frank? not expensive enough for you then!


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> only an alternative to a mazzer mini frank? not expensive enough for you then!


It´s the burrs dude, 63 ain´t bit enough since you taught me that this makes the difference.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Terranova said:


> It´s the burrs dude, 63 ain´t bit enough since you taught me that this makes the difference.


and my grammar and spelling is crap


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ah 63 conics are the same as the flats then, silly me


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)




----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)




----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

nights are so much less boring with you awake frank


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

come on frank dont go to sleep, its so quiet on here at night


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Just to bring this back, I would be very interested to read logical opinions and predictions about this grinder from both Dave and Frank who I both consider have the most grinder expertise here.

Frank, yes the lever setup is worrying. Can you expand on this? The 63mm con. burrs make this an easy competitors to Robur, K10, Kony, Nino, e.t.c, why have you compared it to the Mini?

Dave, are you getting one?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Until someone gets there hands on one it hard to tell how it will perform in the cup.

Plus if it's a kit the performance will be largely dependant on the person putting it together ( alignment will make a difference







)

Anyway won't be me


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Nor for me. I admire the design and being brought to market, but, it looks very odd....the youtube clip shows enormous static.........good luck


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Does anyone else think this grinder is actually horrid to look at?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Does anyone else think this grinder is actually horrid to look at?


It makes no sense I know but I know how a machine looks influences my buying decsions.

My brain sees grinders as functional and therefore Im less bothered by the aesthics...

But yes its one of the least pleasing on the eye to date....


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think this is a great project, but the fact he has only sold 6 of the first run so far might be indicative. Whilst I applaud any small business for bringing something to the market, being small also means less market research, quality of design etc etc


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> I think this is a great project, but the fact he has only sold 6 of the first run so far might be indicative. Whilst I applaud any small business for bringing something to the market, being small also means less market research, quality of design etc etc


You could say the exact same thing of VL, or even Londinium to some extent.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Dylan said:


> You could say the exact same thing of VL, or even Londinium to some extent.


Vesuvius as well.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Sorry but you are both wrong. Their is an amateur concept in comparison to both mentioned


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Everyone has to start somewhere, think I might get one of these and see what it is about


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Sorry but you are both wrong. Their is an amateur concept in comparison to both mentioned


You can tell without trying it/seeing one in the flesh?


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Sorry but you are both wrong. Their is an amateur concept in comparison to both mentioned


Do you have some way of substantiating that that nobody else is partial to?

Edit: especially considering the 'concept' is almost identical to one mentioned


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It comes in a box for you to self assemble. The youtube videos show static sticking in piles to the funnel. The motor on the back seems open to view and looks atrocious. Everyone has to start somewhere, I quite agree, but, you are comparing a start up self assembly business to two companies who would appear to have made it, and one who has more orders than he could possibly fulfil.

jeebsy, you need to calm down and stop spending large chunks of your life to making me look stupid. You are not up to it mate. And by the way, to save me sending you a pm, no, I will not sell the GS3 to you


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> .............jeebsy, you need to calm down and stop spending large chunks of your life to making me look stupid.........


jeebsy - I think what dfk is trying to say is that he doesn't need your help!

[Edit] B*gger that particular open goal had been hit :-(


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> jeebsy, you need to calm down and stop spending large chunks of your life to making me look stupid. You are not up to it mate. And by the way, to save me sending you a pm, no, I will not sell the GS3 to you


I know, you do a good enough job of making yourself look stupid.

Have decided on a paddle gs3 now but thanks anyway. You made those volumetrics sounds awfully complicated


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I rest my case... Z


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> It makes no sense I know but I know how a machine looks influences my buying decsions.
> 
> My brain sees grinders as functional and therefore Im less bothered by the aesthics...
> 
> But yes its one of the least pleasing on the eye to date....


I just don't think it would fit in any kitchen, or any wife would allow it in the kitchen!


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> It comes in a box for you to self assemble. The youtube videos show static sticking in piles to the funnel. The motor on the back seems open to view and looks atrocious. Everyone has to start somewhere, I quite agree, but, you are comparing a start up self assembly business to two companies who would appear to have made it, and one who has more orders than he could possibly fulfil.
> 
> jeebsy, you need to calm down and stop spending large chunks of your life to making me look stupid. You are not up to it mate. And by the way, to save me sending you a pm, no, I will not sell the GS3 to you


I am comparing a company that is starting out with a new product to other companies that *when they started* were in the same position.

You seem to be writing it off based on a couple of things which could be meaningless. That to me seems absurd, in time it will get out into the wild and maybe you will be proven correct, maybe not. I agree its pretty ugly, but having to assemble it and static may have no relation to quality in the cup.

Could you link the youtube vid, as I cant find it.

Edit. Nevermind, was spelling Tidaka incorrectly. There are other videos on youtube showing very little static, the one with build up could have easily been any number of things.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan, would you put your money where your mouth is and buy one? I gave it a lot of thought last night and was prepared this morning to give it a go. But, one comment from someone on here who knows his onions made me change my mind. Added to that, they are not exactly flying out with only 6 sold. They are not even ready for dispatch, estimating the 18th December. I wish the chap no harm, but I think you have to be a special sort of person to invest in this project as an early adopter


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> I gave it a lot of thought last night and was prepared this morning to give it a go. But, one comment from someone on here who knows his onions made me change my mind.


Which exact comment?


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Dylan, would you put your money where your mouth is and buy one? I gave it a lot of thought last night and was prepared this morning to give it a go. But, one comment from someone on here who knows his onions made me change my mind. Added to that, they are not exactly flying out with only 6 sold. They are not even ready for dispatch, estimating the 18th December. I wish the chap no harm, but I think you have to be a special sort of person to invest in this project as an early adopter


I don't have nearly enough money for such things. But I agree with your principle here, as would most people as indicated by the small number sold. The community as a whole does rely on such 'special' people who can afford to give these things a go however. We would never be spending multiple thousands on VL grinders if they had never been adopted by a select few in the early days.

If your decision not to buy is based on that then I absolutely understand, it just seems from your previous posts that it was much more flippant.

Like charris, I would like to know what comment swayed you, as it would obviously be of interest (I'm guessing Terranova)


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Terranova said:


> I also find it a good alternative to a Mazzer Mini or so, but assembling it with a level ( spirit says the translator that water thing) seems to me quite strange if alignment plays a major role, but who knows....


i believe it might be this one


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> i believe it might be this one


Ah yes, I did see that before. It would be very strange if you had to assemble the parts in which the tolerances were critical, do we know any more about this as I was on the side of assuming the critical parts would be in one piece and it would be a matter of bolting together main bits.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Do we know what parts need assembled by the user?


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

So is anybody buying this?


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Hmmm, 22 left now. Coffechap and dfk? Who else?


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

Be aware that you will never get to the extraction yields in comparism with a filled bean hopper / pressure from above vs single dosing.

The difference is: a K10 or Robur or whatever will extract more with a full hopper, so you can choose by yourself if you go for a higher e.y or a lower one. (saving beans vs better quality shots)

With the CB you have no choice. There is only the possibility for single dosing.

Please keep in mind I never said that the coffee will not taste good out of a good assembled CB, but just the optimum is different.

If HG One, or Pharos, Nino or Robur, it will extract less when single dosing, no matter how you adjust the grind setting, there is no visual clue.

Have a look here at: 29:50min - 31:00 or so


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Thanks Frank, excellent video.

Amazing that he discovered that the Robur needs at least 1kg in the hopper to get the highest extraction yields. I would have guessed that about 300g is enough...


----------



## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

You can also use something heavy on top of the beans like "cc" suggested. With my Nino I wasn´t able to pull decent shots when single dosing, also Robur. Never had a K10 though.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Terranova said:


> You can also use something heavy on top of the beans like "cc" suggested. With my Nino I wasn´t able to pull decent shots when single dosing, also Robur. Never had a K10 though.


Frank, since you own some of the big conics and you use all these grinders with extremely high-end machines like the speedster, slayer, idrocompresso and synesso (which surely can extract the best out of any bean) would you mind comparing a proper aligned VL with these (big conics)?


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Martin, maybe this deserves its own thread, something like "The High-End" for reviews and comparing of machines above thenormal" £2k dual boilers and levers. E.g for the owners of Speedsters, GS3s, Slayers, Hydras, Idrocompressos, L2s e.t.c


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nothing stopping anyone starting a thread charris. There are reviews already for the Vesuvius. There are only 2 speedsters and 2 l2 I know of on the forum ( l2 is a commercial not a home machine tho ) . No one has owned up to ordering a one group slayer. Again franks machine ( slayer ) is a commercial variant. Idro? Nope none on here. Synesso is frank again.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

charris said:


> Martin, maybe this deserves its own thread, something like "The High-End" for reviews and comparing of machines above thenormal" £2k dual boilers and levers. E.g for the owners of Speedsters, GS3s, Slayers, Hydras, Idrocompressos, L2s e.t.c


Start it up then....


----------

