# French Press recommendations?



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

My wife is really getting into French press brews in the morning. She will generally make a couple of mugs worth. When I play with it I'm trying to extend the brew times but our cheap sainsburys one gets cool too quickly even with a towel wrapped around it. I'm thinking a double walled one would be best but unsure which to get. The Espro Press is a little too expensive for my liking. Any French press addicts have any suggestions?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have an Espro I do not use. Once the bans over I will send you some info if interested.


----------



## BenJM (Sep 7, 2016)

How long a brew time are you going for?

I use around 10mins and have to wait a fair while for my cup to cool down. I take it you pre-heat the caf and the cup?


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> I have an Espro I do not use. Once the bans over I will send you some info if interested.


I'd consider it, depending on price. I'm not convinced its something I'm going to use too much. I prefer other brew methods. The wife would use it, but she wouldn't be too fussed with a cheapish one.



BenJM said:


> How long a brew time are you going for?
> 
> I use around 10mins and have to wait a fair while for my cup to cool down. I take it you pre-heat the caf and the cup?


Cup and caf definitely pre warmed. I can get away with 10 mins just about, but I want to experiment with it and push the times beyond 20/30+ minutes.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I think any of the double walled presses are likely to be on the pricey side. Maybe the Bodum bean with insulated lid is a good compromise?

@seeq are you brewing with boiling water, how big is the press? A regular Bodum Chambord/Brazil takes about 20min to drop to 70degC with a 300g (1 mug) brew.


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I usually make 600ml, but it is in a 1l press. Water in at 95c. There are several double walled around the £20-£30 mark that look ok. The espro one being around £55 is a bit much, happy to pay up to around £30 I guess.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

seeq said:


> I usually make 600ml, but it is in a 1l press. Water in at 95c.


Make 800-900g brews, stays hot longer. You're losing 5degC right off the bat there


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Thanks. But none the less, I still want a shinier cafetière


----------



## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Make 800-900g brews, stays hot longer. You're losing 5degC right off the bat there


 @MWJB I have read about your rebellious methods with the cafetiere. I am sure they are based on meticulous research and testing but they seem to go against what all other brew guides suggest.

Boiling water on coffee?

A grind between espresso and filter??

+30 mins brew times???

How can this be? If the so called experts are correct this should produce a burned, bitter, over extracted coffee.

What happened to coarse grind, 1 min off boiling water for 4 mins?

Have we been lied to all these years?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Robbo said:


> @MWJB I have read about your rebellious methods with the cafetiere. I am sure they are based on meticulous research and testing but they seem to go against what all other brew guides suggest.
> 
> Boiling water on coffee?
> 
> ...


They don't go against all other brew guidelines, they go against 'commonly held misconceptions'  They were arrived at by lots of tasting, then testing.

If your water is boiling in the kettle, from the moment the heat is no longer applied, it cools. You will struggle to get a brew temp (when water & coffee are combined) much over 90degC with boiling water poured into a single wall glass press.

Immersion brews do not need a coarse grind, contact time alone, without flow through the coffee (percolation) is not enough to over-extract coffee in a declining temperature steep, certainly very unlikely with medium/light filter roasts...the odd Kenyan/Rwandan might get a bit cloying? Historically, immersion grinds have always been finer than drip. I don't know when the coarse grind rumour started, but it is a fairly recent thing. I can only guess that it is suggested to deal with the coarse filter mesh on a French press, but any grinder will produce powder at any setting, that will get through the mesh. Coarse grinds also take longer to sink out of the brew, finer, or medium grinds actually can make for a clearer brew, as long as you don't kick up silt at the end.

You can grind coarse if you can keep the heat up, or brew a long time in a big press, or if you then have to drain the coffee through the bed like a Sowden. But if I'm making a big manual drip brew, my grind will still be coarser than a comparable Sowden brew.

Boiling water & finer grind for immersion have been suggested for over 6 decades.

Brew by taste & temperature, not time arbitrarily.

"4 mins" simply never existed, I think people got confused in the cold war era with 4 minute warnings  You can make espresso, or a syphon brew in less than 4 minutes, or a small drip brew, but you'll struggle to get a high extraction from a French press in that time. You might not want a high extraction, you might like 4 mins steep & piping hot coffee...and that's fine too.


----------



## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

This is an interesting read:

http://www.jimseven.com/2010/11/04/cupping-vs-french-press/


----------



## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Fascinating stuff! although in the video above i would call that a coarse grind similar to what i have used.

I recently ground 50g of beans to my usual cafetiere grind and then seived them to get rid of the powder. i ended up with 42g so 8g of powder!

I then made a brew expecting a clean cup but still found silt at the bottom.

im hoping it may be due to new burrs in the macap grinder. it only had 2kg through it so maybe still not bedded in properly?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The powder isn't so much the problem...unless you have way too much of it suspended in the brew (through swirling it about, or kicking it up). The cleanest French press brew I have made was pretty much Turkish grind, but under-extracted, not over. How fine was the sieve? 20% dust/talc like powder seems a lot?

If you're going to sieve out anything, sieve out the boulders. Grind coarse enough that you don't get dry pockets of grounds when you pour the water in, the pour itself should be enough to wet & mix all the grounds.

Also, a good proportion of the silt is suspended in the oil floating at the surface, pour this off & discard. Next time you make a brew, have a couple of shot glasses ready, fill the first one with the top of the brew, without tipping the press back to upright fill your cup/mug, then pour the last bit in the pot into the other shot glass. When you have finished the drink compare the silt in the cup to that in the shot glasses. Your cup should just have a light dusting, just detectable in the last sip, or two tops.

I think James Hoffmann suggest a medium grind, to me "coarse" would be heading for 1mm average size.


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Considering I asked for someone to recommend a French press, there are 13 posts without a single one (other than the espro) that's even been mentioned. So, does anyone have any recommendations to make?


----------



## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

seeq said:


> Considering I asked for someone to recommend a French press, there are 13 posts without a single one (other than the espro) that's even been mentioned. So, does anyone have any recommendations to make?


You don't really need a fancy one, any basic press should do. Bodum ones are popular though as they tend to look nicer. Double walled/insulated ones should keep the brewing temperature higher, so probably will need less time.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I did recommend the Bodum bean in my first post in this thread. Single wall glass, so cheaper than double walled, but with an insulated lid (all others are 'open' even with the lid on).

Double walled keeps the brew hot for longer, steel doesn't break if you drop it (but seems to make for a more acidic brew with a little less body, so maybe updose a tad), earthenware needs pre-heating, other than that there is minimal difference between them. The Espro fine filter means you can be a bit more slapdash at the end of brewing.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

If you want traditional - can't beat something like the Bodum Chamford - all glass and chrome. Looks good and doesn't cost too much. If you fancy trying a long brew cafetiere - 30 - 40 mins steep time, an insulated cafetiere is worth considering. Something like the double walled Grunwerg. Not as visually appealing, IMO, as the trad cafetiere. You can always wrap a tea towel round a non-insulated cafetiere to keep the heat in when long brewing.


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I actually quite like the grunwerg. I know a lot don't favour the all stainless steel look, but I think it looks clean and neat.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Here's some portions of my last French press brew - Left the first 25g out of the pot, middle the last 30g or so left in the cup (from 155g total, left a few minutes to settle & cool before drinking, no detectable silt when drinking), right the very last 29g out of the pot (after I decided it was unwise to keep pouring into the cup as the sludge was visibly migrating towards the plunger).








[/url]


----------



## rippolaris (Oct 7, 2015)

seeq said:


> Considering I asked for someone to recommend a French press, there are 13 posts without a single one (other than the espro) that's even been mentioned. So, does anyone have any recommendations to make?


If you're after recommendations, I received one of these last xmas, and it's been great

https://www.andrewjamesworldwide.com/kitchen-c1/tea-coffee-c11/coffee-makers-c70/1000ml-cafetiere-and-measuring-spoon-p76

If I preheat the cafetiere with hot water first before brewing, it's contents remain very hot indeed.

I'm lazy and usually leave it brewing for 15-30 mins, but have forgotten about it for a hour, then poured and it's still too hot for me to drink straight off. (Sorry for lack of actual science here!)

The 1000ml/8 cup one gives me 2 "proper" sized mugs of coffee, and a little to spare.

It all comes in a quite a nice box, with a dubiously useful clip/scoop thingy.

The cafetiere itself is really nice quality for the money, all metal construction. Everything is solid, good threads on all the plunger/mesh etc. It feels pretty bombproof anyway, and I think it has a warranty for a couple of years.

(I've binned several poorly constructed cafetieres, even the bodum ones seem to have crappy threads on the plunger or plastic bits somewhere, or the plunger through the lid just felt "rattly" and irritated me.)

The mesh is good quality and quite fine knit, so not much in the way of fines gets through even with finer grinds.

The lid has an inner lip that rotates and closes most of the the spout off so very little heat escapes.

They look pretty similar to the other double wall steel jobbies on Amazon, but I haven't tried any others.

It's on amazon, but cheaper direct or on ebay.


----------



## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

Has anyone used the newer espro travel press? It's selling for cheaper than the regular ones.

It's still pricey at £35 but not super expensive. A cafe I've been to a few times uses espros for filter coffees and I've enjoyed them, although I'm not sure it's actually better than a regular double walled press from a supermarket.


----------



## Boucaneer (Feb 11, 2017)

Dear MWJB,

i I would be very interested in learning about the longer brewing times, and also the difference in tastes regarding the different times.

Like most people who

have done a simple " Google search " of French Press/Cafetière usage being told to use course grinds and 4 mins is really common, so to hear of your experiences with different times and finer grinds techniques would be most interesting if you have the time.

I enjoyed reading your post and any other links to similar thread posts or articles would be greatly appreciated.

Coffee is is a new hobby for me whilst recovering in London from

brain injury.

Thank you you and kind regards,

Alex.



MWJB said:


> They don't go against all other brew guidelines, they go against 'commonly held misconceptions'  They were arrived at by lots of tasting, then testing.
> 
> If your water is boiling in the kettle, from the moment the heat is no longer applied, it cools. You will struggle to get a brew temp (when water & coffee are combined) much over 90degC with boiling water poured into a single wall glass press.
> 
> ...


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi Alex,

Best wishes for your recovery.

Coarse grind & 4 minutes is a commonly held misconception. If you like a course grind & 4 min, then carry on, but you are only likely to tap in to a narrow range of lower extractions. I have heard this 4 minute rule myth many times but it has no root in fact. A siphon brew can be done in this time, or less (as can small drip brews), but other brew methods have been acknowledged as possibly taking longer than this for decades.

A coarse grind keeps fines down, which can be good because fines cause bitter flavours, people typically mistake this for over-extraction. But, over-extraction is actually quite hard to do in a French press. In a well insulated press like the Colombia, it will hold its heat well, so you can get away with a medium grind with a long brew time (smaller, less well insulated pots may require a finer grind).

At the start of the brew, don't let the plunger drop onto the floating coffee as fines will immediately make their way above it. At the end of the brew, just lower the plunger enough to seal around the spout, don't smash it into the grounds bed as this will kick up bittering silt. If you are careful how you pour (holding the lid in place...you don't want it dropping out), you shouldn't get heavy sediment in the cup, certainly a hazy brew but not silty. All grind settings make some dust, it's best not to leave it to the filter mesh to keep it out of your beverage.

The longer you leave the brew the fuller it will develop, but here is probably no grind that is fine enough to ensure over-extraction of light/medium roasts. If you grind too coarse this will clamp extraction and your brew may never reach a nominal extraction.

Coffee cupping (a QC protocol that has been practiced for ~130years) typically sees coffee ground finer than drip and not tasted until at least 8-10min.

In the 50's the CBI did experiments where they held steeping coffee at a constant temp, at a coarse grind it wouldn't hit nominal extraction at all...& they gave it 20mins. Your temp in the French press is always dropping & not held constant.

But people have different preferences & expectations. I'd maybe start by making a big brew between 55 & 60g/l, skim pour off the first 1/3cup after 20min, then taste the next cup. Try a little more at 10min intervals and see what you prefer. Don't be put off at the first sign of bitterness, you can often find sweetness the other side of that.

For me, I know I find coffee preferable & sweetest once it has dropped to ~55C, so the simplest method for me is simply leave the brew until it hits this temp before decanting into preheated cups. This can take 50 to 70minutes depending on the brewer.

@Mrboots2u has linked to my method in another thread, but here is another very good method & where I got the 'no plunge' idea...


----------



## Boucaneer (Feb 11, 2017)

Thank you so much MWJB,

I think it's great to further extract the fuller flavours if possible, and it's refreshing to hear of the longer brew and extraction method and findings.

This method should be good for an Arabica type bean I plan to use in the future.

I'm very grateful for your explanation of the process and the details of the method. It reads as a great article, so thank you.

I now look forward to trying the long brew method and test involving the ten minute interval taste testings.

Thank you kindly for taking the time to write a complete and interesting reply and post.

I am liking the sound of this method very much indeed.

Cheers, Alex.


----------



## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

There is another recipe by Nick Cho that uses a coarse grind: http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/07/how-to-make-better-french-press-coffee-tips-technique-grind-timing.html which might also be worth a try. A coarse grind can be good for minimizing undissolved solids which taste very bitter and plunging gently all the way might help with reducing agitation if you are not using the whole capacity of the press.


----------



## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

I have the VonShef Stainless Steel Double Wall French Press & it's superb & cheap. They come in various sizes.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/VonShef-Stainless-Brushed-Cafetiere-Measuring/dp/B01HY7EWQO


----------

