# Serious case of upgraiditis!



## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I've had my bean to cup machine for less than 2 weeks and am already regretting buying it and want something better. Is this a record? I didn't think I wanted a manual machine. Well now I know I do. I wish I'd come on here first. I'm a bit gutted to find out that I could have bought a Gaggia Classic and grinder for the money I spent on my Bean to Cup.

Got a feeling this upgraiditis is a chronic, lifelong condition mind you.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

yep we soothe it with more coffee.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I think you're manifesting a proper forum spirit









But with the Classic..you'll be getting another rush soon


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Stick with the forum - you can learn a lot.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

It's my birthday soon.... Well, in a couple of months


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Start planning then


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

This happened to me too - I sold my 6 week old £1100 b2c to my business partner for £400 :-(

Well it was a £400 bonus as far as I was concerned and I had change left over to contribute to an ECM after I'd bought a mignon


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Stick with the forum - you can learn a lot.


Learn a lot about... upgrading you mean?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Hasi said:


> Learn a lot about... upgrading you mean?


spending your money


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

oh yes... came for the fun of it, just bought a 1kg roaster


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## IggyK (May 13, 2017)

Well cheaper than photography?!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Not necessarily


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Hasi said:


> oh yes... came for the fun of it, just bought a 1kg roaster


There you go!


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I'm actually wondering whether I can return my bean to cup machine to Amazon. I am still within the returns period. Do they accept upgraiditis as a genuine reason for return?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Amazon are normally very good to be fair, worth a go


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Well.

It didn't meet your expectations ...that miraculously soared after joining an internet forum.

Maybe don't mention the second part.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Hasi said:


> Well.
> 
> It didn't meet your expectations ...that miraculously soared after joining an internet forum.
> 
> Maybe don't mention the second part.


Well the first part is definitely true, even without the latter







. I may not know much about coffee and my tastebuds may still be wearing training wheels, but I know when I'm not getting the most out of my beans!


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Try and send it back especially if it was sold by Amazon, they're really good like that. Then I would buy a second hand set up, get used to making espresso and before you know it upgraiditis will come back again and you can sell on your second hand setup at virtually no loss.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Erm... buy yourself a big safe, chuck your wallet in it and throw away the key..









I had a Gaggia Classic once







(well, most of us had Classics at some point) then upgraditis hits.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Rhys said:


> Erm... buy yourself a big safe, chuck your wallet in it and throw away the key..












although, did you know how much they're asking for a decent safe?!


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Looks like there won't be an issue returning it to Amazon. At least I've completed the form and it just says to drop it off at the parcel place and refund will be applied within 7 days of them receiving it.

Actually feeling a bit sad to part with it now! Not really, but the idea of packing it up and sending it on it's merry way will leave me without a machine for a bit







. Wonder how many coffees I can fit in before I pack it up (need to use up the beans in it)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Get a grip Pack it up and trot it off to the post office and thank your lucky stars you're not lumbered with it for the duration.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

great


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## Muska (Dec 28, 2017)

To cheer yourself up have you decided what the upgrade will be?


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

The upgrade is very likely to be Gaggia classic and probably a new one (which I will then sell when upgraiditis hits once again). Not sure about grinder.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I've just received a despatch notification for some beans I ordered online. Sigh. Better get a move on getting a new machine.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Kitkat said:


> The upgrade is very likely to be Gaggia classic and probably a new one (which I will then sell when upgraiditis hits once again). Not sure about grinder.


I'd strongly recommend a second-hand one with a PID device fitted, these have great temperature stability and can be found cheap in the Sale section, usually with some nice additional accessories


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> The upgrade is very likely to be Gaggia classic and probably a new one (which I will then sell when upgraiditis hits once again). Not sure about grinder.


You'll be better off getting a 2nd hand pre 2015 classic than a new one. It'll hold it's value better when you come to sell it on. There are several on the for sale section at the moment.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

All packed off great, next step the for sale area.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Kitkat said:


> The upgrade is very likely to be Gaggia classic and probably a new one (which I will then sell when upgraiditis hits once again). Not sure about grinder.


A used one will be better as you won't loose much when selling it on. They're cracking little machines that are kitchen friendly. Add a little on-demand grinder like a Mignon and you'll be ok... for a while


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Hasi said:


> although, did you know how much they're asking for a decent safe?!


Yeah, about £250 for a nice used one off Fleabay..

Then you join 'Safe Collectors UK' forums... upgrade to a bigger safe to put that safe in, then the steel and concrete lined garage comes next, with the 8" thick door... Eventually going on Forum trips to Fort Knox.. Better stick with coffee machines, it's a lot cheaper


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Ok, you've convinced me that used is the better way to go. Will be keeping an eye on the for sale section.

Can someone please explain what PID device is? Something that helps stabilise temperature? Definitely worth having?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> Ok, you've convinced me that used is the better way to go. Will be keeping an eye on the for sale section.
> 
> Can someone please explain what PID device is? Something that helps stabilise temperature? Definitely worth having?


At it simplest for coffee making purposes , a PID is an electronic controller that replaces the mechanical thermostat.

Mechanical thermostats have an inherent drawback where it takes a several °C drop in temp before turning the heating element back on requiring 'temp surfing' to get the optimal shot. Being electronic, the PID will turn on & off much faster allowing a more constant temperature.

In the larger world a PID controller is used for things like cruise control & autopilot where constant minute changes are required.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

It is basically a feedback loop control, with the machine idle you can get a stable temperature up to 0,05 Celsius with some (my experience with the meCofee PID and Rancilio Silvia)


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

It's worth having for that type of machine because it makes a good machine even better for a relatively small amount and will give you consistency levels only found in more expensive machines,it's important to note that not all machines benefit from having a pid in the same way. However if I'm reading your question correctly you want to know if it's necessary? My opinion is no, it's a nice benefit but I wouldn't base my secondhand machine search with that as a must. Going off what I've read I'd look for a really well looked after machine, if that happens to be one with a pid then great


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Thanks. I'll bear that in mind but won't get too worried if I can't find a used machine with it.


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

Hi @Kitkat. There is a GC a short hop over the Woodhead pass from you with some decent mods and reasonable price https://www.gumtree.com/p/for-sale/gaggia-classic-older-model-with-opv-valve-and-solenoid-valve-good-condition-can-courier-15-extra/1284455064?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social

Gold LE Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Wand, Rossi RR45 with Motta bits n bobs.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Phase 1 of operation upgrade is complete. I am now in possession of a pre-2015 Gaggia Classic. Grinder is next on my hit list.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

then you better be quick with the grinder







congrats and enjoy (looking at it for the time being)*

*sorry for that! couldn't resist


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Hasi said:


> then you better be quick with the grinder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's just sitting there taunting me.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Grinder now on the way (Eureka Mignon).

Non pressurised double basket on the way (ones that came with the machine were pressurised)

knockbox, tamper and scales on order

Anything else I need? Oh yes, coffee! I kg Rave Chatswood blend on order.

I've not got a tamping mat yet. Anything else I need to get started?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> Grinder now on the way (Eureka Mignon).
> 
> Non pressurised double basket on the way (ones that came with the machine were pressurised)
> 
> ...


Milk jug & thermometer or temp tag.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I've got a milk thermometer but had a bit of a mishap with the jug - should have read the small print.... I'm not a big milk drinker though so not in a hurry to play with the white stuff.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Kitkat said:


> Grinder now on the way (Eureka Mignon).
> 
> Non pressurised double basket on the way (ones that came with the machine were pressurised)
> 
> ...


maybe a brush to clean out the filter...

Depending on material and geometry, you could also tamp over the front edge of your work surface. Takes a little practice but will not apply pressure on the spout.

I've got a little tamping station at home as well as a mat in the office - waaay preferring the station! It just holds everything in a more stable position and less can go wrong.

And get some brown or black towels. In a professional environment, they use four or more at a time for hygenic reasons. You might want to run with one or two: wipe filter basket, drip tray, steam wand, work surface, hands, your sweaty forehead and such









I bougt six from IKEA back in the days, but would consider @MildredM bar towels nowadays (https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?38520-Bar-Towels!)


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Blind basket/blanking disc & some puly caff/cafiza to backflush would be handy too.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Blind basket/blanking disc & some puly caff/cafiza to backflush would be handy too.


I believe backflushing only works with pre-2015 or so Classics. Careful with the newer models that don't feature a 3-way solenoid valve!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Hasi said:


> I believe backflushing only works with pre-2015 or so Classics. Careful with the newer models that don't feature a 3-way solenoid valve!


Yep but since @Kitkat has a pre-2015 classic it's a good idea to do


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> Yep but since @Kitkat has a pre-2015 classic it's a good idea to do


Yup - it's pre 2015 (2006 to be precise)

I have a blind basket, some puly caff powder and a brush.

I need to look into tamping mat/station I think.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Yep but since @Kitkat has a pre-2015 classic it's a good idea to do


okes...







then let's have it there as a future reference for the next adventurers!


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

The grinder arrived today, as did the knockbox and scales. May have a bit of a problem with the scales as there isn't enough space on top of the drip tray to put the scales and fit even a small cup under the portafilter, so not sure how I'm going to measure the coffee. I'm sure I'll work it out but think I need to get a smaller drip tray as there really isn't much room to fit even small cups.

I'll put a few beans through the grinder tomorrow to check it's working but as I'm still waiting on one or 2 items, and the beans I ordered need to rest for another week, it will be another week before I can get to grips with it all and start making very bad coffee (which hopefully won't be very bad for too long).


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I use a espresso cup, or even a shot glass as they are short


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

The cups I'm using are espresso cups but it's a tight fit with the Classic. Maybe I need different shaped cups - excuse to buy some Acme cups maybe?. I have one that will fit with the scales provided I put the cup in first and raise it up to slip the scales underneath. The spouts are inside the top of the cup - is that too close?

I have had a little play with the grinder. As I'm still waiting for my tamper, I couldn't do much but I ran some beans through it and practised making adjustments. I had a play with the daft plastic tamper that comes with the Classic but can't have a proper play until I get the rest of the gear. At least I know I'm in the right ballpark with the grind and should need just small adjustments when I get going. My kitchen looks like a bomb has exploded in a coffee factory.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> The cups I'm using are espresso cups but it's a tight fit with the Classic. Maybe I need different shaped cups - excuse to buy some Acme cups maybe?. I have one that will fit with the scales provided I put the cup in first and raise it up to slip the scales underneath. The spouts are inside the top of the cup - is that too close?
> 
> I have had a little play with the grinder. As I'm still waiting for my tamper, I couldn't do much but I ran some beans through it and practised making adjustments. I had a play with the daft plastic tamper that comes with the Classic but can't have a proper play until I get the rest of the gear. At least I know I'm in the right ballpark with the grind and should need just small adjustments when I get going. My kitchen looks like a bomb has exploded in a coffee factory.


Cup clearance can be a bit of an issue even with a naked portafilter. Most of the time I'll pour into a shot glass & transfer (keep meaning to get a rhinowares one for the handle & pouring spouts) if I'm not making an espresso or flat white.

If you have access to a 3d printer you could make a shallow drip tray to give more access height or remove the driptray althogether & use a cloth to catch the drips. Then again, there's no reason not to carry on as you are with the spouts in the cup.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

how heavy is the classic?

would your scale allow to put everything on?

oh no... stupid me - gross weight would stay the same with a water tank attached







forget it...


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

What can I say. This coffee lark will be the death of me!

Tamper arrived this week. Mat arrived. Everything ship shape and beans suitably rested by this weekend. So today was the day! My first coffee (hopefully).

well after 2 hours I do have a coffee. I hate to even think about the amount of grounds in the bin or the amount of coffee all over the place (I must learn to be tidier). To be fair, it started off well. Grind, distribute, tamp and it wasn't looking too bad. But it came out way too fast. 15g in and 30g out in less than 10 seconds. Tried again and it was a bit better. Then again and again.. Getting closer to what I wanted with each attempt. Apart from a sip of the last 2, I threw the coffee away as didn't think drinking 6 double espressos during the evening was the best idea. I ground the beans a little finer for each attempt and then suddenly watery coffee everywhere! It was spurting out from the top of the portafilter and looking back I think it just wasn't in tight enough. I can't get the handle turned 90 degrees with a basket in it no matter how hard I try but it was clearly ok for the first few. The machine seemed to be getting very hot and my scales were soaked with water by this time so time to take a break and cool down (me not the machine!). The scales were in a plastic bag and no water got into the battery compartment but they dont' seem to be working now. I've had to resort to using my normal kitchen scales which only go up in 1g increments so not the most accurate. After a break I had another go and this time I got the portafilter in better and no leakage. I got my 1:2 ratio of 30g out in just over 30 seconds and finally, after more than 2 hours, was able to sit down and enjoy an espresso! It looked great (I could tell the difference between the b2c stuff immediately just by appearance) and it tasted pretty good, although I think there's a fair bit of fine tuning to be done. As for the state of the kitchen - out of sight out of mine right now.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> What can I say. This coffee lark will be the death of me!
> 
> Tamper arrived this week. Mat arrived. Everything ship shape and beans suitably rested by this weekend. So today was the day! My first coffee (hopefully).
> 
> well after 2 hours I do have a coffee. I hate to even think about the amount of grounds in the bin or the amount of coffee all over the place (I must learn to be tidier). To be fair, it started off well. Grind, distribute, tamp and it wasn't looking too bad. But it came out way too fast. 15g in and 30g out in less than 10 seconds. Tried again and it was a bit better. Then again and again.. Getting closer to what I wanted with each attempt. Apart from a sip of the last 2, I threw the coffee away as didn't think drinking 6 double espressos during the evening was the best idea. I ground the beans a little finer for each attempt and then suddenly watery coffee everywhere! It was spurting out from the top of the portafilter and looking back I think it just wasn't in tight enough. I can't get the handle turned 90 degrees with a basket in it no matter how hard I try but it was clearly ok for the first few. The machine seemed to be getting very hot and my scales were soaked with water by this time so time to take a break and cool down (me not the machine!). The scales were in a plastic bag and no water got into the battery compartment but they dont' seem to be working now. I've had to resort to using my normal kitchen scales which only go up in 1g increments so not the most accurate. After a break I had another go and this time I got the portafilter in better and no leakage. I got my 1:2 ratio of 30g out in just over 30 seconds and finally, after more than 2 hours, was able to sit down and enjoy an espresso! It looked great (I could tell the difference between the b2c stuff immediately just by appearance) and it tasted pretty good, although I think there's a fair bit of fine tuning to be done. As for the state of the kitchen - out of sight out of mine right now.


Glad you got there in the end. It can be a bit of an uphill struggle at the start but stick with it. It won't be long before you change beans & know instinctively how much adjustment your grinder needs to dial it in.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Goodness, this is a steep learning curve! One that heads downwards it seems at times. I'm getting the hang of it but have made some pretty bad coffees in the process and made one helluva mess too. I haven't got the grind right yet. Thought I had got it about right but way too fine it seems so still experimenting. The scales are working today, thankfully. I'm glad I bought 1 kg coffee - I'm going to need it.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> Goodness, this is a steep learning curve! One that heads downwards it seems at times. I'm getting the hang of it but have made some pretty bad coffees in the process and made one helluva mess too. I haven't got the grind right yet. Thought I had got it about right but way too fine it seems so still experimenting. The scales are working today, thankfully. I'm glad I bought 1 kg coffee - I'm going to need it.


Try to keep your tamp consistent. It doesn't really matter if you go light or heavy so long as it's the same every time. Light tamps need a finer grind to compensate the lack of conpression compared to a heavy tamp.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Sounds a lot like my beginnings


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I think I'm probably tamping quite light. I have arthritis in my wrists so not pressing down too hard. It is fairly solid and doesn't fall out if I hold the portafilter upside down (couldn't resist trying that). I don't have a distribution tool so I get rid of clumps as I go along (using a Mignon and it does come out quite clumpy) then when I have the right amount of coffee (by weight) I smooth it with my finger and a spoon until it looks evenly distributed and flat on top. I have a small round tamping mat, and think I am holding the tamper nice and flat, then givie one firm press with the tamper. It looks fairly even and level all the way around. The quality of my tamping does go downhill a bit when I have to make multiple shots though.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Yep my tamp is off and on can't seem to get it bang on every time







I have in my right hand as well


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Hmm I can imagine that the arthritis makes repeated tamps a bit of hell









When I was brewing on Rancilio Silvia, I was eventually grinding very fine using the VST basket and tamping really light, just with the fingers


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Yep limited movement, pain from October to March and I ride as well, had a X-ray last year sometime they said you do know your wrist is Goosed.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

That really sucks









Here is an example of my light tamping - at around 2:27


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I think I am tamping fairly consistently but it can be hard to tell when a weak, achey wrist may make a very light tamp feel like the heavier one the day before! Would a calibrated tamper help here?

Tonight's coffee only took 2 attempts. Under extracted but there is method in the madness. I am discovering the difference in taste depending on how quickly it comes through. I am using Rave Chatswood blend and get more chocolate and less tang with the quicker shots, even if it is too watery, and less chocolate and more of something a bit more acidic coming through when it comes through slowly. Not quite right with either extreme but at least something useful is coming out of the attempts.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

yeah a calibrated tamper would help with consistency but it won't help your wrist..the puqpress unit looks great but it won't help your wallet


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Stanic said:


> yeah a calibrated tamper would help with consistency but it won't help your wrist..the puqpress unit looks great but it won't help your wallet


 I though the macap automatic tampers were pricey.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Blimey, does anyone actually spend that sort of mone y to tamp?! Even if I had the money I don't think I could bring myself to buy one of those.

Good cup this morning, first attempt. I'm now getting it more consistent, although improvements can definitely be made to my prep. I'm going to leave the grind as it is now for a few more cups at least and then try it a little finer and gradually get a longer time then see which taste I prefer.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Kitkat said:


> Blimey, does anyone actually spend that sort of mone y to tamp?! Even if I had the money I don't think I could bring myself to buy one of those.


People do buy them, yes, although I have only spotted them in the odd coffee shop. Maybe that's where the majority of sales are made?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Stanic said:


> ...and tamping really light, just with the fingers


There's your problem... Try using a tamper


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Rhys said:


> There's your problem... Try using a tamper


boy, did my tamps suck up to now, thanks!


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

MildredM said:


> People do buy them, yes, although I have only spotted them in the odd coffee shop. Maybe that's where the majority of sales are made?


I can see that it would be useful in that environment. Perhaps when I win the lottery and get a bigger kitchen I'll buy one


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Kitkat said:


> I can see that it would be useful in that environment. Perhaps when I win the lottery and get a bigger kitchen I'll buy one


When it's happening, prepare to build a coffee palace. There's lots of other useful coffee accessories out there you might want/need by then


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

It's hard to believe I've only been doing this for a week. A lot of coffee in the bin (and a lot of beans all over the kitchen) but I have made a few pretty good coffees (to my inexperienced tastebuds). Still not consistent enough and I'm getting some channelling most of the time - it comes out of one spout first for a while and it's always the same one - but apart from that I'm getting there with it. I'm really grateful for the brilliant information and advice on this forum. The one thing I've read that's made the biggest difference to my coffee making so far is to allow the Classic longer to heat up. I had assumed that when the brew light came on it was ready to go. I now leave it half an hour and can really tell the difference. Onwards and upwards!

I think I'll go and have another coffee.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

I sympathise with Kitkat entirely. I started 2018 with 2 pod machines - Lavazza and Nespresso. Bit of a crazy impulse buy in the sales. I'll probably keep the Lavazza in the cupboard in case anything breaks down but the Nespresso will be relocated - I only drink decaf and Lavazza pods are better and cheaper. I still have a DeLonghi EC155 even, plus a Dualit 75002 grinder. All that got superseded by the Classic and Mazzer Mini. Not perfect - the Mini grinds well but it's a rather messy doser. I have macabre ideas of getting a Baby and turning it into a Frankenbaby with some gauges in the pedestal part. But at least I'm now unpressurised and at 9 bar, so in the main game.

But with the Classic it's all about temperature surfing and I agree with the above that you need to go beyond the moment the red light comes on to get it hotter and sweeter. When I get some thermocouples going I'll know more.


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