# Bottomless or Naked



## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

When referring to portafilters are they the same thing?


----------



## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

Yes they are indeed


----------



## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Thanks @DaveP

I have seen some very nice ones, but why might I want one?

I take it a basket isn't used with these?


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

You still use the basket as normal. As far as I know (definitely no expert) bottomless/naked portafilters can be helpful when ruling out flaws in technique, such as poor distribution or uneven tamp. The naked pf will show these flaws as the extraction is exposed for you to see. Like I say I'm no expert so I'm sure some of the other members can give more info


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

You still use a basket just in effect not the spouts you may currently have on your portafilter. In the past were used as a training or diagnostic aid to help with distribution of coffee in the basket issues as you can see where the coffee is coming out, sometimes if channelling with "hilarious" results (kaldi's arrow) redecorating machine / operator in the process. Most people tend to use them for increased space below the portafilter allowing slightly taller cups or cups on scales etc, personally have both groups on the L2 with nakeds for the vast majority of the time, something mesmeric about watching espresso pour









John


----------



## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Once you have mastered distribution and tamping, is there any need/advantage to using a naked over the spouted type (apart from height gain)?

I can see the point that it 'looks' good.


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Having got a shot in the eye from Kaldi's arrow through poor distribution on the silvia, it certainly keeps your game up ensuring you don't get another by getting the distribution right







(also saves lot of coffee splatters on shiny machines...)

If you weighing in and out you might be very grateful for the extra headroom as most machines will not have been designed with scales in mind. Can quite comfortably with a fair amount of room to spare get an Inker 8oz on top of an Acaia pearl scale under the groupheads of the L2 but this is the exception to the rule, the silvia has to have slim scales and a smaller cup even with a naked portafilter, suspect the latter is the norm for most machines.

Coffee porn should never be avoided, is a simple smile, but a long lasting one and if you add in lever silence (no pumps) to the pour, becomes audibly sensual (you would have to hear this to understand fully, is a gloopy sound that adds to the experience)

Not sure what machine you have or whether you weighing in and out, if not a set of scales with fresh beans would be better money spent in the first instance.

Hope of help

John


----------



## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

tAClue said:


> Once you have mastered distribution and tamping, is there any need/advantage to using a naked over the spouted type (apart from height gain)?
> 
> I can see the point that it 'looks' good.


IMHO... nope


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I have only ever seen one person on here post today they 'prefer the taste of spouts' (no definitely not sprouts!). I think it makes next to no difference to taste (unless you're an utter skankmeister who never cleans the portafilter, in which case you'll get rancid oils building up in the spouts and killing your coffee). As stated above, Naked portafilter gives room for scales, allows you to assess your distribution and basket prep, and revel in a lovely coffee porn pour. Or you get sprayed in the eye with hot brown water. ..

Spout PFs take up space (height under group), need cleaning properly (Cafiza, pipe cleaners) but will cut down on mess and of course if you want to split a shot you will need one. (They come in single, double and triple spouted variants to my knowledge).

You pays yer money and takes yer choice. Pros and cons for both. I use a naked, which might account for having come up with the phrase "Kaldi's arrow"     I do get a spritzer from time to time but at least I know about it.


----------



## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

johnealey said:


> Coffee porn should never be avoided, is a simple smile, but a long lasting one and if you add in lever silence (no pumps) to the pour, becomes audibly sensual (you would have to hear this to understand fully, is a gloopy sound that adds to the experience)
> 
> Not sure what machine you have or whether you weighing in and out, if not a set of scales with fresh beans would be better money spent in the first instance.
> 
> ...


I like this, I shall make a point of not avoiding coffee porn! On the basis of this I have nearly convinced myself a naked is needed.









I am using a Fracino Heavenly. I have been using some small scales to weigh in (after grinding beans), though I am looking to maybe get some waterproof ones for the shot as it happens, (measuring with a scaled glass at the moment).


----------



## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

btw, who is/was Kaldi


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

will let @hotmetal answer this one as he coined the phrase a while back now









John


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Kaldi is the name of the goatherd who, according to legend, first discovered coffee when he noticed his goats had wandered off to a strange tree and seemed to be extra frisky after eating the fruit.

I found out this tale while working on producing Nespresso demonstrator training materials. Wikipedia seems to concur https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaldi


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

tAClue said:


> I have been using some small scales to weigh in (after grinding beans), though I am looking to maybe get some waterproof ones for the shot as it happens, (measuring with a scaled glass at the moment).


If cheap scales of the jeweller type they are reasonably resilient to a bit of coffee drippage or you could always put them in a sandwich bag which might not look nice but is waterproof.

You will find that weighing out to whatever ratio tastes good to you be it 1:1, 1:2, 1:3 or anywhere inbetween will only be consistent if you weigh out as volumes are not consistent and a source of much pain when learning espresso making (volumetrics in commercial machines work by measuring the amount of water before it goes into the puck and would be set up based on the weight of the output). Time is less of an issue than weight in out as have had many a tasty shot that has gone well beyond the oft quoted 25 to 30 seconds and a few that were well under that timeframe (not so many as the longer pours).

Crucially let you your tastebuds dictate then length of time you pour for once you happy with ratio you pouring to i.e 18g dry coffee into 36g wet espresso ( if you grind a little finer the time taken will go up, coarser quicker assuming tamping remains constant)

Hope of help and plenty of resource on here to cover the above

John


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

tAClue said:


> I am looking to maybe get some waterproof ones for the shot as it happens, (measuring with a scaled glass at the moment).


Good idea, although easier said than done. The only drip tray friendly waterproof scales I can think of are the Brewista at about £40 or the awe$ome Acaia scales. I have generally bought cheapie ones for between £7-15. Water/coffee always gets in somehow, but I put them in a weighing tray to protect the battery compartment from splashes coming from below (when the E61 vents into the drip tray) and use an aluminium plate on the top which insulates the weighplate from the heat (which messes with accuracy) and provides some protection against spills from above. Some people just put theirs in a ziplok bag. ...


----------

