# Barista express mods



## Coffeenoobster

Hi all,

I have spent a while searching and have seen posts dotted around regarding mods/accessories for the barista express however was wondering if there was somewhere I can look for more information. What I would like to see is maybe a list of mods and their benefits or reviews.

From what I have gathered so far aside from the obvious tools and bottomless portafilter there's the IMS basket and the OPV MOD which I'm not keen on as they require some level of manual dexterity I am lacking. I have seen their is a ims shower screen as well but their wasn't much info on how well it fits into the barista express, I think there was one post saying these kinds of accessories would reduce the amount of grounds you can fit into the basket.

Or maybe if there are any relatively easy hacks and your thoughts, so I saw their was a foil hack inside the shower screen that helped water distribution for lower end machines. Only recently found out that you could change the top burr settings.

I have had a read through the hints and tips so would like to take it a little beyond that but not advanced level, so not looking to get anything extra like a better grinder etc.

Thanks in advance.


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## TomHughes

I guess you've got to ask what you are going to try and achieve by modding the sage machines?

They already have a PID so there isn't anywhere to go on temp stability

Changing the screen and basket won't do a whole lot as the sage screen and basket are actually not bad at all, with water distribution relatively even. As you have seen the IMS basket which potentially be good requires some modding.

One of the main reasons I sold my Sage was because there was no room for improvement. The machine is ok, produces a pretty good cup of coffee, the grinder is pretty pants mostly so I didn't use that. The steam arm is pretty weak and produces a wet foam that I don't like.

I guess as I've said I can't see why you would want to mod the sage, especially as there is a risk that a mod would damage something and then you aren't going to be getting it repaired!


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## Coffeenoobster

TomHughes said:


> I guess you've got to ask what you are going to try and achieve by modding the sage machines?
> 
> They already have a PID so there isn't anywhere to go on temp stability
> 
> Changing the screen and basket won't do a whole lot as the sage screen and basket are actually not bad at all, with water distribution relatively even. As you have seen the IMS basket which potentially be good requires some modding.
> 
> One of the main reasons I sold my Sage was because there was no room for improvement. The machine is ok, produces a pretty good cup of coffee, the grinder is pretty pants mostly so I didn't use that. The steam arm is pretty weak and produces a wet foam that I don't like.
> 
> I guess as I've said I can't see why you would want to mod the sage, especially as there is a risk that a mod would damage something and then you aren't going to be getting it repaired!


 In a way, I guess that was probably what I was asking, if there were any relatively straight forward ones that would be beneficial. As in buy and replace without much effort. I guess the answer is no and probably why I couldn't find much info on the subject.

Thanks for the reply.


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## TomHughes

Coffeenoobster said:


> In a way, I guess that was probably what I was asking, if there were any relatively straight forward ones that would be beneficial. As in buy and replace without much effort. I guess the answer is no and probably why I couldn't find much info on the subject.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.


 I don't think there are mods, but there definitely are tricks. Like the ones in the sticky post. Lots of warming up flushes etc. 
Also, always grind into a cup and weigh, the sage is super clumpy, I don't think anyone could get a decent extraction grinding into the PF unless they are a WDT pro!

Have you got a bottomless PF? definitely the mod/upgrade to go for.


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## Blue_Cafe

Coffeenoobster said:


> the OPV MOD which I'm not keen on as they require some level of manual dexterity I am lacking.


 :good:

Because the Grinder is integrated into the machine and I believe most hacks won't get anywhere near the level of improvement a good grinder will give you, I suggest you leave the machine as is and focus on the techniques. Else, sell the machine (much easier in its unmodified state) and get a separate machine/grinder.

By all accounts, the machine is as good as you can get without going at it hard.


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## Coffeenoobster

TomHughes said:


> Have you got a bottomless PF? definitely the mod/upgrade to go for.


 No not yet, I have a spare portafilter so will see if I can find anyone who can mod it. Kind of afraid what I will see though.


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## Coffeenoobster

Blue_Cafe said:


> :good:
> 
> Because the Grinder is integrated into the machine and I believe most hacks won't get anywhere near the level of improvement a good grinder will give you, I suggest you leave the machine as is and focus on the techniques. Else, sell the machine (much easier in its unmodified state) and get a separate machine/grinder.
> 
> By all accounts, the machine is as good as you can get without going at it hard.


 Thanks for the reply. To be honest I bought the machine for the wife, so no can do on selling as she does love it. Agree that it is a nice little machine, but I think some of the price goes to aesthetics rather than functionality.

Maybe be I will upgrade it in a few years.


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## 24774

Coffeenoobster said:


> In a way, I guess that was probably what I was asking, if there were any relatively straight forward ones that would be beneficial. As in buy and replace without much effort. I guess the answer is no and probably why I couldn't find much info on the subject.
> 
> Thanks for the reply.


 Just to reiterate what others have said, I have a BE and there's no point opening it up to mess with it. Top tips can be found in the stickied thread in the Sage forum, things like running 3/4 shots through first before pulling the proper one is a game changer, as is adjusting the top burr of the grinder (easily done. it's made to change). Get a cheap bottomless portafilter from China if you want one, ditto levelling tool (I posted in the Sage forum where I got mine, both are great quality), make sure you have a proper tamper, not the one that comes with it.

Biggest bang for buck if you really want to 'mod' - buy a new grinder. That seems to be the path for most BE owners, then that grinder goes along with the next machine when you eventually upgrade. That's what I'll be doing.


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## Coffeenoobster

CocoLoco said:


> Biggest bang for buck if you really want to 'mod' - buy a new grinder. That seems to be the path for most BE owners, then that grinder goes along with the next machine when you eventually upgrade. That's what I'll be doing.


 Hi, thanks for the response,

biggest issue I have with buying a grinder is that it defeats the point of buying a "all in one" machine. I think if I ever go down that route it would be when I am ready to upgrade the whole set up.


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## 24774

Coffeenoobster said:


> Hi, thanks for the response,
> 
> biggest issue I have with buying a grinder is that it defeats the point of buying a "all in one" machine. I think if I ever go down that route it would be when I am ready to upgrade the whole set up.


 Yeah I feel that, I got an amazing deal on my BE last Black Friday so don't feel like I'm losing out spending more on a new grinder, plus given how good it seems I'm not sure I really *need* to upgrade the grinder, I'm partly doing it out of lockdown boredom! Over the last two weeks I've found a bean that's so nice in the BE I'm wondering how much I would actually appreciate a new grinder in the cup. I imagine I would as the BE grinder is basic, but will I need to upgrade the machine? Not as sure about that was I was a few months ago.

I've started to wonder if there's a bit of 'Emperor's new clothes' about coffee. Of course there's a scale, but I wonder if the point of diminishing returns is actually quite low. I've got a mate that's going to upgrade from a Classic to a Bianca and a suitable grinder. So I'd think that would be about a £2500-£3000 set up. He's going to get the same beans as me, looking forward to trying that out and comparing. Of course it'll be better. But by how much in the cup?


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## Blue_Cafe

CocoLoco said:


> I've started to wonder if there's a bit of 'Emperor's new clothes' about coffee. Of course there's a scale, but I wonder if the point of diminishing returns is actually quite low.


 You too? :classic_happy:


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## lhavelund

CocoLoco said:


> Yeah I feel that, I got an amazing deal on my BE last Black Friday so don't feel like I'm losing out spending more on a new grinder, plus given how good it seems I'm not sure I really *need* to upgrade the grinder, I'm partly doing it out of lockdown boredom! Over the last two weeks I've found a bean that's so nice in the BE I'm wondering how much I would actually appreciate a new grinder in the cup. I imagine I would as the BE grinder is basic, but will I need to upgrade the machine? Not as sure about that was I was a few months ago.
> I've started to wonder if there's a bit of 'Emperor's new clothes' about coffee. Of course there's a scale, but I wonder if the point of diminishing returns is actually quite low. I've got a mate that's going to upgrade from a Classic to a Bianca and a suitable grinder. So I'd think that would be about a £2500-£3000 set up. He's going to get the same beans as me, looking forward to trying that out and comparing. Of course it'll be better. But by how much in the cup?


A lot of the benefit is convenience, stability and repeatability. A more expensive grinder will be more consistent, for example, which makes repeatable shots easier. A more expensive machine may have bigger boilers and temperature stability, which makes frothing milk easier, and ensure coffee is extracted at a consistent temperature. Or other machines, like the Crem 2b or Vesuvius, add functionality like pressure profiling.

That doesn't factor in build quality and materials, either, which contribute aesthetically, and in a longer lifespan (if cared for properly).

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## 24774

lhavelund said:


> A lot of the benefit is convenience, stability and repeatability. A more expensive grinder will be more consistent, for example, which makes repeatable shots easier. A more expensive machine may have bigger boilers and temperature stability, which makes frothing milk easier, and ensure coffee is extracted at a consistent temperature. Or other machines, like the Crem 2b or Vesuvius, add functionality like pressure profiling.
> 
> That doesn't factor in build quality and materials, either, which contribute aesthetically, and in a longer lifespan (if cared for properly).
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


 Sure, more expense means it will last longer. The Sage may not last (although given the number sold I'm not sure how much believe that anyway) but for £350 I'm not too fussed it it did break down outside warranty, for £1800 I would be. Build quality, materials, aesthetics, yep I concede all that, you have to pay for those. and that's fair. But I think the hate for the BE grinder, in Sage over all, is overblown by some on this forum. For anyone wanting an objective opinion, speak to BB about Sage. Remember, they don't sell them. It's pretty consistent atm for me, maybe that'll change in time. But right now I'm getting the same drink every day.

But if tomorrow, if I make the same cup I've been making and put that up against my mate's Bianca, pretend he'd used it for months and got to grips with it...will I agree it's worth that much extra? I'm just talking in the cup so you'd kind of have to work out what rest of the stuff we are discussing is worth, then put an amount on 'in the cup'.

Difficult to pin down I think and different for everyone. Someone might value speed, someone else aesthetics, some tinkering etc. Recently I've gone from go from 'yep, I'm into coffee now definitely upgrading this year' to 'maybe I'll just get the grinder and see where I am' to 'hmmmm....do I really need it?'.

Like I said, I'm lockdown bored, money sort of burns a hole in my pocket and I like the idea of a Ferrari red Specialita so I may just go for it regardless. But I am wondering how much it's going to improve the taste. I mean of course it will, but if I then got a Mara X at Christmas, is that worth it in the cup?


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## 24774

Blue_Cafe said:


> You too? :classic_happy:


 Maybe...am I in danger? Don't want to be walking down street and a Vesuvius drops on my head! If I disappear you know the Coffee Cabal got me!


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## Coffeenoobster

CocoLoco said:


> Yeah I feel that, I got an amazing deal on my BE last Black Friday so don't feel like I'm losing out spending more on a new grinder, plus given how good it seems I'm not sure I really *need* to upgrade the grinder, I'm partly doing it out of lockdown boredom! Over the last two weeks I've found a bean that's so nice in the BE I'm wondering how much I would actually appreciate a new grinder in the cup. I imagine I would as the BE grinder is basic, but will I need to upgrade the machine? Not as sure about that was I was a few months ago.
> 
> I've started to wonder if there's a bit of 'Emperor's new clothes' about coffee. Of course there's a scale, but I wonder if the point of diminishing returns is actually quite low. I've got a mate that's going to upgrade from a Classic to a Bianca and a suitable grinder. So I'd think that would be about a £2500-£3000 set up. He's going to get the same beans as me, looking forward to trying that out and comparing. Of course it'll be better. But by how much in the cup?


 I think you make a great point there and also how refined is mine or my wife's palette I.e. when would I stop being able to appreciate such improvements. Which was my main motivation for small but meaningful upgrades as it were.

Edit:I would be be quite interested in what you thought of your friends coffee though.


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## Blue_Cafe

CocoLoco said:


> Maybe...am I in danger? Don't want to me walking down street and a Vesuvius drops on my head! If I disappear you know the Coffee Cabal got me!


 There is an old saying in astronomy and by golly, I think of it so much these days when coming across these niche hobbies.

It is:

"The best telescope to buy is the one you will use the most"

It's such a good point. There is no point in owning a 12" dobsonian if you can't wheel the bugger out of the shed. You would be much better off with a small 4" refractor which you could sit on the garden table or chuck in the boot of the car and get a lot more use out of.

In coffee terms, if you just want a decent cup of coffee, then one could argue that the Sage is a better machine than most regardless of price. Turn it on, grind, load up, press go, coffee, bish bash bosh.

Fred with his £5k espresso powered steam engine needs a full morning of time, a degree in process and steam engineering, a coffee grinder built for a field kitchen despite doing at most, 2 espresso's a day, a kilo of fresh beans flown in the night before and water from God's own well just to make the espresso which he then punts into his TKMaxx coffee mug and drowns with Tesco essentials full fat milk, (lovingly frothed by high purity virgin steam).

One is coffee, the other is a pilgrimage lol.


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## 24774

Blue_Cafe said:


> There is an old saying in astronomy and by golly, I think of it so much these days when coming across these niche hobbies.
> 
> It is:
> 
> "The best telescope to buy is the one you will use the most"
> 
> It's such a good point. There is no point in owning a 12" dobsonian if you can't wheel the bugger out of the shed. You would be much better off with a small 4" refractor which you could sit on the garden table or chuck in the boot of the car and get a lot more use out of.
> 
> In coffee terms, if you just want a decent cup of coffee, then one could argue that the Sage is a better machine than most regardless of price. Turn it on, grind, load up, press go, coffee, bish bash bosh.
> 
> Fred with his £5k espresso powered steam engine needs a full morning of time, a degree in process and steam engineering, a coffee grinder built for a field kitchen despite doing at most, 2 espresso's a day, a kilo of fresh beans flown in the night before and water from God's own well just to make the espresso which he then punts into his TKMaxx coffee mug and drowns with Tesco essentials full fat milk, (lovingly frothed by high purity virgin steam).
> 
> One is coffee, the other is a pilgrimage lol.


 Haha, I like that 😄

Some truth there, I stopped using £500 earphones and swapped to £100 headphones for a while, just because they were faster and easier to put on. Headphones are a good example. There's a price point (and I'm not talking fashion here, I'm talking audiophile) that you see definite improvement at, but that fades away very quickly. I've spent a lot on head/earphones and there's often very diminishing returns.

I have a friend who is the world's best violinist (or one of), another who is a sound engineer - they can use headphones that are thousands of pounds. Likewise, DavecUK or Hoffman or the guys that build machines for 20 years will be able to discern differences that most can't. But for the 99%, I really wonder how much the expense is seen in the cup. From Sage to better grinder - sure. From Sage + Specialitia to Mara X + Specialita = how much? From Mara X + Specialita to MaraX and £1000 grinder? Swap in a Bianca?

And don't forgot, people's taste buds are not all the same. Age plays a role, as does whether they smoke, if they are overweight. As does experience. A guy drinking Classic for 2 years versus month one of a newbie with say a £3000 set up...those are two very different palettes to start with.


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## Blue_Cafe

CocoLoco said:


> Haha, I like that 😄
> 
> Some truth there, I stopped using £500 earphones and swapped to £100 headphones for a while, just because they were faster and easier to put on. Headphones are a good example. There's a price point (and I'm not talking fashion here, I'm talking audiophile) that you see definite improvement at, but that fades away very quickly. I've spent a lot on head/earphones and there's often very diminishing returns.
> 
> I have a friend who is the world's best violinist (or one of), another who is a sound engineer - they can use headphones that are thousands of pounds. Likewise, DavecUK or Hoffman or the guys that build machines for 20 years will be able to discern differences that most can't. But for the 99%, I really wonder how much the expense is seen in the cup. From Sage to better grinder - sure. From Sage + Specialitia to Mara X + Specialita = how much? From Mara X + Specialita to MaraX and £1000 grinder? Swap in a Bianca?
> 
> And don't forgot, people's taste buds are not all the same. Age plays a role, as does whether they smoke, if they are overweight. As does experience. A guy drinking Classic for 2 years versus month one of a newbie with say a £3000 set up...those are two very different palettes to start with.


 As they say in the Hi Fi world, you begin to listen to the equipment rather than the music.

James hoffman used a drip brewer at home because Espresso is too much of a faff for him and he can get it better at work. I like that approach.


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## Mrboots2u

Blue_Cafe said:


> There is an old saying in astronomy and by golly, I think of it so much these days when coming across these niche hobbies.
> 
> It is:
> 
> "The best telescope to buy is the one you will use the most"
> 
> It's such a good point. There is no point in owning a 12" dobsonian if you can't wheel the bugger out of the shed. You would be much better off with a small 4" refractor which you could sit on the garden table or chuck in the boot of the car and get a lot more use out of.
> 
> In coffee terms, if you just want a decent cup of coffee, then one could argue that the Sage is a better machine than most regardless of price. Turn it on, grind, load up, press go, coffee, bish bash bosh.
> 
> Fred with his £5k espresso powered steam engine needs a full morning of time, a degree in process and steam engineering, a coffee grinder built for a field kitchen despite doing at most, 2 espresso's a day, a kilo of fresh beans flown in the night before and water from God's own well just to make the espresso which he then punts into his TKMaxx coffee mug and drowns with Tesco essentials full fat milk, (lovingly frothed by high purity virgin steam).
> 
> One is coffee, the other is a pilgrimage lol.


 Out of interest , what experience do you have with grinders and 5k set ups?

In my experience do espresso machine is fish , bash bosh proof but there you go.

The last paragraph is just passive aggressive with an attempt at humour as no one has a process you describe or takes all morning to make a coffee .

I dont mind what you make to make coffee you enjoy with and it should bother you what others do .


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## Mrboots2u

CocoLoco said:


> Haha, I like that 😄
> 
> Some truth there, I stopped using £500 earphones and swapped to £100 headphones for a while, just because they were faster and easier to put on. Headphones are a good example. There's a price point (and I'm not talking fashion here, I'm talking audiophile) that you see definite improvement at, but that fades away very quickly. I've spent a lot on head/earphones and there's often very diminishing returns.
> 
> I have a friend who is the world's best violinist (or one of), another who is a sound engineer - they can use headphones that are thousands of pounds. Likewise, DavecUK or Hoffman or the guys that build machines for 20 years will be able to discern differences that most can't. But for the 99%, I really wonder how much the expense is seen in the cup. From Sage to better grinder - sure. From Sage + Specialitia to Mara X + Specialita = how much? From Mara X + Specialita to MaraX and £1000 grinder? Swap in a Bianca?
> 
> And don't forgot, people's taste buds are not all the same. Age plays a role, as does whether they smoke, if they are overweight. As does experience. A guy drinking Classic for 2 years versus month one of a newbie with say a £3000 set up...those are two very different palettes to start with.


 No one can tell you the marginal differences and if it worth it to you .

The grinders in the sage are ok with dark to medium plus coffee but if you are looking to get into lighter roasted single origins then they struggle versus pretty much any other half decent grinder ( mignon upwards ) .

I went from an Oracle with grinder to using it with a niche, if was significantly better at extracting lighter roasted coffee for espresso. If you are gonna buy some italian robusta blend and stick it in milk then the marginal gains are little IMHO. If you are buying coffee at less than £20 a kilo than spending money on kit isnt great value for anyone .

If you never want to upgrade then log out the forum and never come back, if you are happy with your coffee, then enjoy it and save some cash .


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## Rob1

CocoLoco said:


> He's going to get the same beans as me, looking forward to trying that out and comparing. Of course it'll be better. But by how much in the cup?


 Assuming the beans are good quality...If it's paired with a good grinder then it will be significantly better if the paddle is used properly. Also could be significantly worse if not.


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## 24774

Mrboots2u said:


> If you never want to upgrade then log out the forum and never come back


 Really? It's funny how some of the most experienced people (highest number posts at least), on this forum are the most aggressive. Anyone else noticed that?


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## 24774

Rob1 said:


> Assuming the beans are good quality...If it's paired with a good grinder then it will be significantly better if the paddle is used properly. Also could be significantly worse if not.


 Sure, it's going to be hard for my mate to get to grips with I'm sure. Took me ages with just a BE. He's had a Classic but it's a jump up complexity wise.

I'll wait until he he tells me he's 'got it' before trying it out. Looking forward to hearing about it from him.


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## Blue_Cafe

CocoLoco said:


> Really? It's funny how some of the most experienced people (highest number posts at least), on this forum are the most aggressive. Anyone else noticed that?


 Very much so.


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## Mrboots2u

CocoLoco said:


> Really? It's funny how some of the most experienced people (highest number posts at least), on this forum are the most aggressive. Anyone else noticed that?


 I say that to nearly everyone, wasn't meant to be aggressive , its just a fact of life.

If its come across as that apologies.


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## Rob1

CocoLoco said:


> Sure, it's going to be hard for my mate to get to grips with I'm sure. Took me ages with just a BE. He's had a Classic but it's a jump up complexity wise.
> 
> I'll wait until he he tells me he's 'got it' before trying it out. Looking forward to hearing about it from him.


 It shouldn't be difficult really. A bit of playing around an experimenting with starting flow rates and declining flow rates to start with should see him understanding things fairly quickly. After that adding dwell times really makes things more complicated. Basically things get more complex the more you mess with the paddle but moving from a Classic with a 58mm group to the Bianca shouldn't be too different, if anything it should be easier. Pull a couple of shots on it yourself and you'll see how easy it is. Just aiming for a consistent flow rate into the cup from half-way through a shot to the end will get you somewhere.



> Really? It's funny how some of the most experienced people (highest number posts at least), on this forum are the most aggressive. Anyone else noticed that?


 It was advice on the basis that upgradeitus will set in eventually.


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## Mrboots2u

Blue_Cafe said:


> Very much so.


 So have you used any 5k set ups or any sage machines . 
If they were bush bash bush idiot proof you wouldn't have half the forum full of questions about how to get better coffee from them . 
There are no plug and play machines that deliver exceptional espresso they all need dialling in and understanding the adjustments needed to get the strength and balance of drink you want .

and come on you know you wrote that paragraphs about 5k set ups to wind people up and get a reaction , don't play offended when you get one , it's what you wanted .

i have been here long enough to post a lot For sure sometimes even help a bit , , but you see the trolls come and go and get bored and move in to another interest to wind people up..


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## facboy

CocoLoco said:


> <snip>
> 
> Like I said, I'm lockdown bored, money sort of burns a hole in my pocket and I like the idea of a Ferrari red Specialita so I may just go for it regardless. But I am wondering how much it's going to improve the taste. I mean of course it will, but if I then got a Mara X at Christmas, is that worth it in the cup?


 i misread this initially and thought, "he's buying a red Ferrari (never heard of a Specialita though) and he's worrying about the cost of coffee machines?!?"

😹


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## Blue_Cafe

Mrboots2u said:


> So have you used any 5k set ups or any sage machines .
> If they were bush bash bush idiot proof you wouldn't have half the forum full of questions about how to get better coffee from them .
> There are no plug and play machines that deliver exceptional espresso they all need dialling in and understanding the adjustments needed to get the strength and balance of drink you want .
> 
> and come on you know you wrote that paragraphs about 5k set ups to wind people up and get a reaction , don't play offended when you get one , it's what you wanted .
> 
> i have been here long enough to post a lot For sure sometimes even help a bit , , but you see the trolls come and go and get bored and move in to another interest to wind people up..


 I think you've taken things a little to seriously 😂


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## Mrboots2u

Blue_Cafe said:


> I think you've taken things a little to seriously 😂


 Anyway , would you care to answer the question re the gear you've used then , the 5k set ups or sage machines you've had .


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## Blue_Cafe

Mrboots2u said:


> Anyway , would you care to answer the question re the gear you've used then , the 5k set ups or sage machines you've had .


 No. I don't care.

Perhaps the reason new posters, sorry, trolls, don't stick around is because they can't abide the cliquish club-house bollox you and your ilk spout.

I can't say I blame them. It seems you have become obsessed with polishing each other piping rather than focusing on the coffee.

Bored trolls?

Wtf are you on about ??


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## Mrboots2u

Blue_Cafe said:


> No. I don't care.
> 
> Perhaps the reason new posters, sorry, trolls, don't stick around is because they can't abide the cliquish club-house bollox you and your ilk spout.
> 
> I can't say I blame them. It seems you have become obsessed with polishing each other piping rather than focusing on the coffee.
> 
> Bored trolls?
> 
> Wtf are you on about ??


 Well I won't shed a tear when you go. 
Who are my ilk then ilk btw ?


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## DavecUK

Watching this thread with my copious supply of Popcorn, reminds me of this little video by John.


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## Jony

I'm a troll 🤣


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## Mrboots2u

Jony said:


> I'm a troll 🤣


 Yeah but your an elitist , pipe polishing one , so that's ok


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## The Systemic Kid

Calm it down please or the thread will get locked.


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## Blue_Cafe

Mrboots2u said:


> Well I won't shed a tear when you go.
> Who are my ilk then ilk btw ?


 I ain't going anywhere thanks.

Now, back to the subject at hand...


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## Mrboots2u

Blue_Cafe said:


> I ain't going anywhere thanks.
> 
> Now, back to the subject at hand...


 Ok, so how do you rate the sage stuff then ? Tell us about your experience with it .


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## Blue_Cafe

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok, so how do you rate the sage stuff then ? Tell us about your experience with it .


 Rate them?

Well designed and executed premium convenience machines for the busy mobile classes.

How about you?


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## 24774

> 59 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> Watching this thread with my copious supply of Popcorn, reminds me of this little video by John.


 Oh, David Dunning. Of Dunning-Kruger fame. How apt.


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## Blue_Cafe

Well, I thought it a bit to obvious *to tell him but I'm glad you have lol.

*Too (sorry Dave, my dyslexia is a bit wild ATM)


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## 24774

Sorry @Coffeenoobster your thread was completely derailed, partly by myself, my apologies.

To confirm my point, sorry if I'm repeating myself, I wouldn't tinker with the machine really. Read the Sage forum, particularly the sticky, lots of bang for buck advice there. Invest in a proper tamper and good fresh beans. Good luck!


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## Blue_Cafe

CocoLoco said:


> Sorry @Coffeenoobster your thread was completely derailed, partly by myself, my apologies.
> 
> To confirm my point, sorry if I'm repeating myself, I wouldn't tinker with the machine really. Read the Sage forum, particularly the sticky, lots of bang for buck advice there. Invest in a proper tamper and good fresh beans. Good luck!


 Sentiment echoed.

Back on topic


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## Rhys

Speaking as someone who has had 2 Sage BE's (one as a present, the other for my other half - who now uses my La Pavoni) I can say they are fine if you chuck supermarket beans in them, or fresher medium to dark roast. At least once set up they produce acceptable results for someone who's moved up from Nescafe, discovered pre-ground and wants something better. Great for a beginner as it's repeatable using the volumetric (probably based on time rather than volume) settings. The steam wand is like an asthmatic dribbling down a straw, with no real control but actually steams milk in the end to make a hot, milky drink. Actually I quite liked it in the end and my sister uses hers with an espresso roast coffee and doesn't mind it at all. To her it look nice and goes with her new kitchen.

For around £250 second hand, they are good value considering it's near enough an all in one. When I had one at my other half's house she had an espresso blend in the hopper and the volumetrics were set up for that. I had my Niche sat next to it and used the manual brew setting with single origins (hold for preinfusion, release when starts to drip then hit to stop IIRC). Did the job.

What's the difference between using a £250 second hand all in one compared to the equipment I have now (I think I qualify regarding the question that was asked re £5k +..) Well, it's simple really. If I make a crap cup of coffee it's my fault, pure and simple. More often I make a nice cup of coffee that I can enjoy.

More to the point that I can actively enjoy making coffee because I want to "interact" with my coffee equipment rather than just "use" it. As for 'bish bash bosh', nothing is simpler than using a machine such as a KvdW Speedster. Portafilter in, lever into first stage (line pressure) until it drips then lever into second stage pump pressure. Steaming milk is just as easy, you open a tap and steam comes out. Slayer is different but just as easy to use. half asleep at 4.30am the machine is already warmed up as its inbuilt timer wakes itself up. I can bang out drink after drink without worrying. All line fed so no water tank to worry about and no drip tray to empty.

As to the original point of tinkereing with a Sage BE, mine had been modded to stepless grinding adjustment but you had t wedge a coin in to stop it creeping @HowardSmith it was your old machine? Other than that, I don't have much idea what else can be done to them tbh. Can the pressure be adjusted?


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## Mrboots2u

Blue_Cafe said:


> Rate them?
> 
> Well designed and executed premium convenience machines for the busy mobile classes.
> 
> How about you?


 So you've used and owned some then I presume .


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## Blue_Cafe

Mrboots2u said:


> So you've used and owned some then I presume .


 Yes and no.


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## Coffeenoobster

CocoLoco said:


> Sorry @Coffeenoobster your thread was completely derailed, partly by myself, my apologies.
> 
> To confirm my point, sorry if I'm repeating myself, I wouldn't tinker with the machine really. Read the Sage forum, particularly the sticky, lots of bang for buck advice there. Invest in a proper tamper and good fresh beans. Good luck!


 haha no worries, I think I got the answer pretty soon anyway from yourself and others.


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