# Baratza Encore vs. Hand Grinders



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Which model is it that every one goes on about for brewed coffee, please?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is the Encore. Anyone seen a better pricer a new one than this?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Baratza-Encore-Conical-Burr-Grinder/dp/B007F183LK


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Forum sponsor @coffee_omega generally has the lowest price on these £109.99 + shipping (£9.99) here

Baratza Encore is indeed the model most opt for when talking about brewed duties. Other one is the Mahlkonig Vario but that costs significantly more.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> Forum sponsor @coffee_omega generally has the lowest price on these £109.99 + shipping (£9.99) here
> 
> Baratza Encore is indeed the model most opt for when talking about brewed duties. Other one is the Mahlkonig Vario but that costs significantly more.


Plus vat...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What is it that allegedly makes these so good? Any thoughts?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What is it that allegedly makes these so good? Any thoughts?


Id also like to know

is it better than a lido hand grinder? Ie grind quality/consistency


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Prepare to beslated, says he, but, I have a Kitchenmaid Artisan that I use fro brewed and it seems to do a good job. I just cannot see a £120 grinder doing it any better, although I would love to be proved wrong. Is there an owner willing to take a decent photo of some grinds and I will do the same. I hate missing a trick but need to be convinced!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

I'm not so sure that it's a case of the Baratza being 'so good' it's just that for the money, and for the convenience vs. a hand grinder it's a sound choice.

I'd wager that the Lido probably does offer a better consistency.

One thing I found was that if you removed a collar inside, to clean it out, there are two possible ways it can go back in. No mention of this in the manual, and no visible difference, however one way will give you bizarre grind consistency.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@MWJB

Will explain far better than I can about the similarities between a decent hand grinder and some electric grinders such as a Baratza Encore or equivalent. Sometimes they even share the same burrs. But the beauty obviously being no elbow grease is required!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Aren't the burrs mahlkonig burrs ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Prepare to beslated, says he, but, I have a Kitchenmaid Artisan that I use fro brewed and it seems to do a good job. I just cannot see a £120 grinder doing it any better, although I would love to be proved wrong. Is there an owner willing to take a decent photo of some grinds and I will do the same. I hate missing a trick but need to be convinced!


A photo of grinds will tell you very little

The naked eye shouldn't reveal a huge amount of both are half decent

How would you get a " comparative " setting between the two to compare?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> A photo of grinds will tell you very little


It will tell you what the grinds look like. Sometimes they wear fancy dress for the pictures, it's sweet


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Vario fitted with steel burrs is a very decent grinder for brewed coffee. Converted mine from ceramic which are not good in terms of grind consistency. Encore has 40mm steel burrs - same size as Lidos, Hausgrind and Felgrind. Been using a Lido 2 for last seven days - good results. Can hold around 90grms. That said, I like the Feldgrind a lot. Current Baratza with 54mm burrs is the Forte - not cheap. Savvy way to go is to buy a Vario and import some steel burrs from Baratza USA.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Vario fitted with steel burrs is a very decent grinder for brewed coffee. Converted mine from ceramic which are not good in terms of grind consistency. Encore has 40mm steel burrs - same size as Lidos, Hausgrind and Felgrind. Been using a Lido 2 for last seven days - good results. Can hold around 90grms. That said, I like the Feldgrind a lot. Current Baratza with 54mm burrs is the Forte - not cheap. Savvy way to go is to buy a Vario and import some steel burrs from Baratza USA.


So it comes down to a playoff between the portability of the lido and the convenience of the encore?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

where is the kitchenmaid in all of this! I bet hardly any of you coffeesnobs have used one...you maybe surprised!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> where is the kitchenmaid in all of this! I bet hardly any of you coffeesnobs have used one...you maybe surprised!


I wouldnt grind peppercorns in that disgrace


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> I wouldnt grind peppercorns in that disgrace


you need to change your signature, by prefixing it with, 'The man without, a'


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> So it comes down to a playoff between the portability of the lido and the convenience of the encore?


Wold think so. Haven't used an Encore but can't see it grinding any better than a Lido, Hausgrind or Felgrind. Been grinding 60grms at a time twice a day on the Lido for Chemex - no major effort or hassle.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The encore performs very well indeed for Brewed. Grinder is much more than the sum of its parts, grind quality is amazing.

Alignment , motor power, spin speed, not to mention convenience all play their part.


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

For the few months I owned an Encore it absolutely MUNCHED through beans and it makes the most bizarre whirly sound - almost like a siren!

Great grinder for brewed but don't go into espresso territory as you will likely swear a lot.

The Forte looks attractive with the touch screen interface and grind by weight option - it's price however isn't and in my opinion doesn't justify the extra costs for what is essentially a Vario on steroids.

Would still have one though... :]


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## Wuyang (Mar 21, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Prepare to beslated, says he, but, I have a Kitchenmaid Artisan that I use fro brewed and it seems to do a good job. I just cannot see a £120 grinder doing it any better, although I would love to be proved wrong. Is there an owner willing to take a decent photo of some grinds and I will do the same. I hate missing a trick but need to be convinced!


Wow.....somebody as cynical as me...... Hope this helps......think it was on setting 13 on the lido3,,,, fine sea salt in pic...


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Did I dream it or has someone pimped a Kitchenaid with Mazzer burrs and got good quality results.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ridland said:


> Did I dream it or has someone pimped a Kitchenaid with Mazzer burrs and got good quality results.


Not a dream but he had to drill extra holes and the like to do it....and my names not diy dave!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> you need to change your signature, by prefixing it with, 'The man without, a'


They are still in my possession!! but I take it your sig must be speaking in the third person?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> They are still in my possession!! but I take it your sig must be speaking in the third person?


second, third or fourth, who cares....things could be worse, I might be a Mackem!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> second, third or fourth, who cares....things could be worse, I might be a Mackem!


haha very good!


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## Wuyang (Mar 21, 2014)

Another pic of grinds.....on number 13 left , 10 on right


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Think I'll be buying a lido 2 shortly


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> Think I'll be buying a lido 2 shortly


Better check with the Mrs first eh Bobby!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Better check with the Mrs first eh Bobby!


The missus isn't the issue

you working in the same industry as i will understand the principles of opportunity cost!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

A man with a conscience......right...Lol


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Something else one might consider when wishing to check on your grind size for brewed is a sieve.

Not the cheapest but this one is an example of a suitable sieve. Worth looking in the kitchen equipment sections of large supermarkets for cheaper alternatives. Also aquariums will likely stock similar products.

0.4mm/400microns to 0.85mm/850microns is a useful range, I'd go for 500um/0.5mm?

Clever grind for a long steep is close to espresso (~65% passing through a 0.5mm sieve), I wouldn't use a coarse-ish grind for immersion unless there was silt able to drop through a metal filter like in a Brewt or Sowden.

I use a 0.5mm sieve every now & then, if I'm trying to convey to someone else grind size for immersion (drip & espresso, go by flow), or trying to establish a rough average grind size for a certain grinder setting. Perger recommended a 0.5mm sieve generally for getting rid of boulders for brewed & espresso. I use a regular kitchen sieve every day at work to get rid of boulders in Sowden brews.

(credit to MWJB for above info)


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## Wuyang (Mar 21, 2014)

Thought you were going to post pics to compare grind


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@Wuyang are you referring to me, if so the reason I haven't is my previous post was info from MWJB so it's not me.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Kitchenaid at its worst, or is it best?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Kitchenaid at its worst, or is it best?


Looks like the whole range of grinds there from 1/2 a bean down to espresso!!! :0


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

To my naked eye, grind size doesn't look very consistent.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

mrsimba said:


> Looks like the whole range of grinds there from 1/2 a bean down to espresso!!! :0


thats why it is so tasty!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> To my naked eye, grind size doesn't look very consistent.


Looks more like a blade grinder....!


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## Wuyang (Mar 21, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> @Wuyang are you referring to me, if so the reason I haven't is my previous post was info from MWJB so it's not me.


Sorry for any confusion Doubleshot.......post 7 page 1...,dfk41 wanted somebody to post pics of grind so he could post some pics of his to compare.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

No harm, no foul mate. Think we've all done it at some point...posted a comment which makes perfect sense to ourselves but perhaps not so clear on first reading by others.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

One good thing has come out of this. making me realise just how crap Kitchenmaid are! I was surprised by the mixed cross section of bean particles, so, it will be Gumtreed or Ebayed and a suitable replacement found!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Amongst multiple options: Rhino hand grinder (cheap enough new and a few have appeared in the for sale section) or a Baratza Encore if you'd rather save time plus not wish to use any elbow grease.

Alternatively better quality, more expensive hand grinders in the form of a Lido 2 or feldgrind.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> One good thing has come out of this. making me realise just how crap Kitchenmaid are! I was surprised by the mixed cross section of bean particles, so, it will be Gumtreed or Ebayed and a suitable replacement found!


Been using a Lido 2 for a week while away paired with Chemex which needs a fairly coarse consistency. Particle size variance was pretty noticeable. Now back at home, I'm struck with the consistent particle size the EK produces. Downside is it's a big too big to lug around when on the road!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It worries me when people say get a Lido for example as they are really good, then a Lido owner comes on and says much the opposite! I get even more confused!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> It worries me when people say get a Lido for example as they are really good, then a Lido owner comes on and says much the opposite! I get even more confused!


Perhaps I should elaborate. Didn't say the Lido was bad, David - coffee it produces is very good - and able to replicate the beans' tasting notes. Used the Lido to brew with ratio of 30grms/500grms. The grind consistency was noticeably coarser than the EK to get the same brew time - around three and a half minutes. Reason for this is Lido will have a broader spread of particle size compared to the EK which is much more uniform which is why it's the grinder of choice in many coffee shops for brewed coffee.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

I have a Rhino and I'd say the grind consistency resembles that of your kitchenaid. I believe this can be improved with blu tack but worth considering.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

risky said:


> I have a Rhino and I'd say the grind consistency resembles that of your kitchenaid. I believe this can be improved with blu tack but worth considering.


Try going finer on the Rhino.

The trouble is with David's photo, we don't know whether the grinder is set midway, finest, or coarsest, nor any idea as to the average size. All grinders make a range of particle sizes (some closer in that range than others) but even a grinder that produces a good grind can be very uneven at very coarse settings


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Try going finer on the Rhino.
> 
> The trouble is with David's photo, we don't know whether the grinder is set midway, finest, or coarsest, nor any idea as to the average size. All grinders make a range of particle sizes (some closer in that range than others) but even a grinder that produces a good grind can be very uneven at very coarse settings


Only really happens at Chemex coarseness. Should have clarified that. The finer you grind, the more consistent it is.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

This is out of a Rhino v1 (4 clicks out from zero point, I think it was?)










Bear in mind whilst not the best grind quality or consistency, this is £35 new or around £25 for a used one. Better than an electric blade grinder, I'm sure most would agree.


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

risky said:


> Only really happens at Chemex coarseness. Should have clarified that. The finer you grind, the more consistent it is.


Prefectly reasonable: Feed beans into widely-set burrs and they shatter the bean. A few bits are big enough to get caught and ground further, but there'll be smaller chunks and debris down to dust size that will pass on through uncrunched. The more you tighten the burrs the fewer the uncrunchables.

My feeling is that all ground coffee irrespective of the grinder quality should contain an amount of dust. Not quite sure how that might be avoided - by lowering take-up speed, maybe?

Anyway, I have an Encore downstairs and I can confirm that it's vile for espresso. OK for a moka pot and, I suppose, gentler methods.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> This is out of a Rhino v1 (4 clicks out from zero point, I think it was?)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That grind looks very fine to my poor old eyes, even with my glasses on! I know it is hard to tell, but perhaps my problems stem from my own poor knowledge, but that looks more powdery than granular......


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I was two clicks out previously for my CCD but then coarsened the grind for the Brazen. Seems fine to my tastebuds (although that isn't exactly a scientific analysis!)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If I buy an Encore, whats it worth in 6 months time. If I buy a Lido 2 or 3, same question. I do not go away so no need for portability


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'd buy an encore for least paff factor . You have had hand grinders before - I think you will tire of one quickly


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> If I buy an Encore, whats it worth in 6 months time. If I buy a Lido 2 or 3, same question. I do not go away so no need for portability


There's an Encore on Gumtree for £100 just now I believe. And I think I sold mine for £100.

They used to hold value quite well as availability was poor, not sure if thats still the case.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> There's an Encore on Gumtree for £100 just now I believe. And I think I sold mine for £100.
> 
> They used to hold value quite well as availability was poor, not sure if thats still the case.


Amazon have them for 3125, was £120 on saturday with free delivery. thats 315 cheaper than most sell them for.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I posted in the 'Deals' section recently when Amazon dropped their price to £117.xx delivered.

I was outbid on an used Encore on evilbay that ended on £69.

You make your choice then take your chances...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> If I buy an Encore, whats it worth in 6 months time. If I buy a Lido 2 or 3, same question. I do not go away so no need for portability


Agree with Boots - for home use only - the Encore. That said, I've been grinding 60grms at a time through the Lido twice a day for a week for Chemex. Lido being a big beast will hold 90-100grms. Chewed through them quickly with not much effort. As stated, I don't like the crank knob - much prefer a rounded one. As for resale value - Lidos don't come up often - neither do Encores so after six months both should be worth 75-80% of price new.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Right, I have been convinced......do not need a hand grinder! I now have to establish whether to buy an Encore or use something else! I have a little Mignon.....but, I think an Encore will do nicely. Anyone want a Kitchenaid?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Right, I have been convinced......do not need a hand grinder! I now have to establish whether to buy an Encore or use something else!


Oh dear, what have we done?!


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

I can do you an Encore for £140 delivered, a Cunill Mc5 in black for £200 delivered, or a black aluminium bodied Fracino Piccino grinder (rebadged Ascaso) for £150 delivered. Andy


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Seems like this Baratza thread has wobbled off track into a Lido 2/3 thread, lol! Dunno if Mods feel it's worth splitting into a new/separate thread? There's obviously plenty of interest in Lido hand grinders!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Seems like this Baratza thread has wobbled off track into a Lido 2/3 thread, lol! Dunno if Mods feel it's worth splitting into a new/separate thread? There's obviously plenty of interest in Lido hand grinders!


I've retitled the thread as it was originally about the Encore vs. hand grinders.

Lido 2 and 3 dedicated discussion is here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25353-Lido-2-lido-3


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Swift work my friend. ?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

And I've now moved the specific Lido 2 vs 3 discussion to the Lido thread: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25353-Lido-2-lido-3

(Mostly relevant to @Fevmeister who was the one asking about them)

All welcome to still discuss the Lidos in here, but in the respect of them vs. the Baratza, rather than each other.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I managed to buy an Encore for the good price of £107.62 delivered, thanks to help from doubleshot..


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Could have potentially been another £20 cheaper!


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## jkb89 (Dec 10, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> I managed to buy an Encore for the good price of £107.62 delivered, thanks to help from doubleshot..





DoubleShot said:


> Could have potentially been another £20 cheaper!


Details please chaps?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Baratza-Encore-Conical-Burr-Grinder/dp/B007F183LK

download 'the camelizer' app for firefox or just go on the website on the browser and copy and paste amazon links into it and itll give you a detailed price history of every single thing sold on there!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

nope, easier than that. You use Quidco and link it with Bespoke Offers. Chuck in the Amazon URL and it goes off and comes back if available, with a better price than on the amazon site, which was £125. if I had then revered the process I might have been able to get 18% cash back as well, but I did not know about this


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> nope, easier than that. You use Quidco and link it with Bespoke Offers. Chuck in the Amazon URL and it goes off and comes back if available, with a better price than on the amazon site, which was £125. if I had then revered the process I might have been able to get 18% cash back as well, but I did not know about this


Im guessing this is linked to your barclaycard credit card?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> Im guessing this is linked to your barclaycard credit card?


not linked to anything.........perhaps @DoubleShot can explain in more detail......there is no catch. I have never heard of cashback sites. They way he told me to do it I did not receive a cutback. I received a discounted offer from the same amazon seller who had it for £125


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Anyone interested drop me a PM, rather than clutter up this thread.


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