# What would be a good upgrade from a Classic



## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

I know this presumably gets asked a lot, but I'm wanting to plan out my path a little. It's going to happen sooner or later.

I have read the thread by Glenn which has a nice table showing where machines are positioned in terms of starter, single boiler/HX and dual boiler. My Gaggia is obviously entry level, along with the Silvia.

So I'm guessing a Rancilio Silvia wont offer much of an upgrade, and therefore I would be looking at something like a Fracino Piccino?

As I dont make loads of drinks, perhaps 2 per day in the week and 6 - 8 on a weekend, is something with a Dual boiler a waste?

Would I better with a HX model in between?

I have a Mignon grinder, and mainly make milk based drinks.

Many thanks


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I'd look into a dual boiler if I were you. If you're making that many milk drinks at weekends, you'll see the benefits.

What's your budget? How long do you see yourself keeping your upgrade?


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Scotford said:


> I'd look into a dual boiler if I were you. If you're making that many milk drinks at weekends, you'll see the benefits.
> 
> What's your budget? How long do you see yourself keeping your upgrade?


I'd like to get the machine I can use for the next 10 years or so, something built like a tank/bulletproof. Budget would be what I needed within reason, ie, if I needed to save for longer to get something great so be it. I'm cutting my teeth with the classic and then only want to upgrade once.

I'd say though if i could keep it this side of £1k that would be nice!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I've had an R58 in the past and I would happily reccomend them to absolutely anyone looking into a long term investment. Absolutely solid machines.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Can you plumb in?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

I went from a Gaggia Classic (7 years) to an Expobar DB rotary plumbed in.

The more coffees you make the cheaper it becomes:coffee:

The Classic is bullet proof and if the Expobar lasts as long then I'll be delighted, think I've worked out the cost of a really good cappa with decent beans and inc fuel & capital costs over ten years to about 50p a large cappa (not allowed any on-going service costs btW).

For comparison I think a large cappa with Classic was costing me about 20p

We, me and my son, make about six a day between us during the week and down to two a day each at weekends.

Tony


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I can plumb in, the missus even suggested I get an area set up when we do the kitchen up so happy days.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Rotary Brewtus for around £1k will plumb in. I love mine but haven't tried any other high end DBs. Coffeechap rates it too.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

How much do you reckon a divorce settlement would stretch your budget by?


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Scotford said:


> How much do you reckon a divorce settlement would stretch your budget by?


Ha ha, yeah I know. Played a blinder though, made out that making a coffee area in the new kitchen was a inconvenience and said I'd begrudgingly agree but I'd need a new machine...


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Rotary Brewtus for around £1k will plumb in. I love mine but haven't tried any other high end DBs. Coffeechap rates it too.


Will take a look at that one thanks. Looked at the R58 and it does look brilliant, but a lot of dough.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The advise that you would see the benefits of a DB over a HX because you make 8 drinks on a weekend is bemusing.

Even the entry level £4-500 HX machines will steam milk all day long.

A DB offers you two major advantages. Firstly there is no flush, so no routine to learn. Secondly most DB machines now come with a PID controlled brew boiler, meaning if/when you want to play with temperatures to further hone your shot you have this option.

If neither of these things bother you you can look at any machine in that price range to suit your needs.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I agree with that to an extent, but if someone said they've got £1k+ to spend, only want to upgrade once, can plumb in and and want the machine to last a decade, would you still recommend an entry level HX?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> I agree with that to an extent, but if someone said they've got £1k+ to spend, only want to upgrade once, can plumb in and and want the machine to last a decade, would you still recommend an entry level HX?


No, not at all, infact a DB would be the way I would go with that cash as being able to control the brew water is a huge advantage. But some people simply never envisage wanting to do that, and there are a much bigger range of machines to consider in the 1k range if your needs are met by a good HX.

Saying that, if your needs are met by a HX, a £600 machine might actually be all you need...I made a thread called "HX ... what do you get for your money?" asking what a high end HX gave you over something like an Expobar Pulsar, and it kind of died a death. The expensive machines come with some commercial level components, bigger boilers and bigger groups (perhaps the biggest single difference), but do they perform significantly better? I couldn't say as I just dont have the experience. But it would be something I would want to know for sure if I was looking at HX machines worth £1500 odd.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

np123 said:


> Looked at the R58 and it does look brilliant, but a lot of dough.


Crikey, I've just seen the price of new ones and I'm 99% sure I didn't pay that much when I got mine...


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## Wombat (Nov 12, 2013)

In my other thread I've been discussing going for Francio Cherubs and such. I've looked at DB machines and frankly they're above my budget (though not yours by the looks of it) and have too large of a footprint.

Is it worth considering allocating some of your budget to a grinder upgrade to make sure you don't have a bottleneck in your workflow?


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Wombat said:


> In my other thread I've been discussing going for Francio Cherubs and such. I've looked at DB machines and frankly they're above my budget (though not yours by the looks of it) and have too large of a footprint.
> 
> Is it worth considering allocating some of your budget to a grinder upgrade to make sure you don't have a bottleneck in your workflow?


I definitely dont have that kind of budget at the moment. I'd rather spend £600-£700 on a machine that north of £1,000. But I am willing to put money aside over time if its a case of being able to buy once.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

I can recommend Expobar Brewtus as well. Superb bit of kit and solid build


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

PeterF said:


> I can recommend Expobar Brewtus as well. Superb bit of kit and solid build


If second that. I upgraded from a Silvia to a Brewtus a couple of months ago. It's a different world, I'm now able to make fantastic espresso on a consistent basis. Of course, the grinder is essential too but Brewtus is super solid.


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

Sounds like it's a Brewtus. ..


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

A used HX (cherub or heavenly can cost in quite well) or jump to a dual boiler.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

np123 said:


> Sounds like it's a Brewtus. ..


Where are you based?


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Where are you based?


Based in London/Essex area. I suppose there must be some showrooms somewhere I could go see...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Nope unless you go to Bella barista but a friendly forum member might be able to give you a run through


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Nope unless you go to Bella barista but a friendly forum member might be able to give you a run through


Cheers for the tip. I plan to go up to BB at some point but afraid of what I'll end up buying while there ha ha


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

I've decided to go for a machine now - looking at potentially a Cherub or other HX so have posted in the wanted section. I'm not sure if its going to be too deep for my counter though! Is it really twice as deep as a classic?


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