# Baratza Forte impressions



## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Hi, just wondering if there are any Forte (BG or AP) owners who use the grinder for espresso and have some comments to make about it.

I'm mostly wondering about noise level and retention.

I'm currently between getting a Niche Zero and a Forte later this year. The Niche Zero particularly appeals for its form factor, ease of use in terms of changing grind settings (I often have 3-4 beans on the go at once, and my girlfriend would use it for her aeropress too), its quietness and of course the zero retention.

However, I've always found myself preferring the taste of a well aligned flat burr - seems to be able to get a level of sweetness out of light roasts that I've never tasted with conicals. The problem with this of course is that most flat burr grinders are incredibly expensive and outside of my budget (which sits basically at the Forte's price point of £700). A couple of months ago Scott Rao wrote about the Baratza Forte vs an EK43. He basically claimed that the performance he was getting from his Forte was on par with, if not better than his EK43 which is well-aligned. He said it could comfortably grind fine enough for his 'blooming espresso' shots (preinfusion, stopping for 30 seconds and then ramping up pressure on a DE1 Pro), and indeed it advertises that it can do Turkish grinds. This is somewhat important to me as I plan to buy a machine capable of pressure profiling in some capacity (Vesuvius, DE1+, Bianca) and I currently do long preinfusions on my La Pav.

So, given my belief that Scott Rao is one of the leading and most critically minded experts in coffee worldwide, I am not too worried about assuming I will prefer the grind output of the Forte to the Niche. However, I still have some questions:

1. How loud is the Forte? Is it something that can be run by the kitchen neighbouring a bedroom where my girlfriend is sleeping?

2. What is the retention like, if I single dose and use RDT? Some seem to say it has nearly no retention, then I've seen others online claim 8g of retention!!

3. Does the grind setting stay consistent? I'm aware it's a stepped grinder, but have seen one person online saying that the settings seem to 'drift' frequently.

I'm aware there are some people on here very anti-Baratza. If someone has a suggestion for a grinder of the same caliber in the same form factor (nice and small) and budget, I'd be interested in hearing the suggestions.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Does Rao state he is single dosing in thst article as I can't see he does.

He is using a de 1 to do a particular type of espresso extraction, will it stand up with a non de machine.

It's alot of money for a small grinder, if you don't need small then there are other options. Your paying for a machine with weight dose, do you need it.

Baratza and qc get the wrap they have, they had some issues with slipping on the old fortes and the settee kept breaking down. Up to you to work out the chaff from the noise.

I know @Xpenno has one but I'm not sure he frequents this forum much anymore...

I had an older vario with the espresso burrs, I didn't rate it massivley for espresso if I am being honest.

Rao seems to be making a choice between and ek and a forte. There are other choices...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

find a review for the Forte as thorough and as evidenced (using video etc..) as the one I did on the Niche, then make your mind up.


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Thanks MrBoots - I don't think he is single dosing, no, I would have to work out some solution for that realistically. It doesn't necessarily have to be Forte small, but I'm not happy with having a loud massive commercial grinder in my kitchen. Just don't have any desire for it. Do you have any flat burr suggestions that might be seen as an 'alternative' to the Niche? I know that's asking a lot, as flat burrs tend to need a bigger frame and have more issues with retention (unless they're vertically mounted like on an EK), and I know the Niche is quite unique in what it's doing. All in all I'm leaning towards the Niche still, I guess I'm just worried I get it and I'm still feeling like I'm longing for some flat burrs to get the flavour I want. Maybe I'm exaggerating the issue - maybe my experience with flat burrs is simply that the baristas/beans are better than the ones I've experienced using conicals (my sample size definitely isn't massive so this isn't impossible at all). Fwiw I don't need the other features of the Forte like weight or timing. Like I said if there was a reasonable option around the same price that offered better performance but was more 'bare bones', it'd likely suit me more.

And Dave, I'm sure if that was a requirement I'd never be able to buy anything not reviewed by you, as I've never seen any review quite as thorough as your Niche review (which I read all of, twice, and appreciate humongously). I'm leaning towards a Bianca as a machine largely based on your review too, so don't get me wrong it isn't that I don't trust the Niche is a fantastic grinder - I guess I'm just being cautious about making a decision that's not for me on something I can't really afford to get wrong.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Buy a Mythos.....a lot bigger. The Clim Pro version is as quiet if not quite than a Niche. The burrs are 75mm flat but mounted at a 45 degree angle. This keeps retention to an absolute minimum although there is bound to be some. Never tried to single dose one but am sure others do. Runs superbly with beans in the hopper though but useless at going from one extreme to the other but very accurate knob for adjustments


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

HBLP said:


> And Dave, I'm sure if that was a requirement I'd never be able to buy anything not reviewed by you, as I've never seen any review quite as thorough as your Niche review (which I read all of, twice, and appreciate humongously). I'm leaning towards a Bianca as a machine largely based on your review too, so don't get me wrong it isn't that I don't trust the Niche is a fantastic grinder - I guess I'm just being cautious about making a decision that's not for me on something I can't really afford to get wrong.


you don't say where you're located, but perhaps there is a member close to you who will let you try a Niche, then you can decide on the flavour?


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

I think the Mythos is a bit too mighty and too expensive for me, though I like the idea for sure. That's probably a good idea Dave, though having not done that before I'm not 100% sure how to approach it. In case anyone sees this, I'm based in Germany these days but visit family/friends in East Yorkshire, London and Brighton on a semi-regular basis (every 2 months or so).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

as suggested, better to visit folks and see them in action than buy from. recommendation/web site


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

I love my Forte (with BG burrs currently), it's a big step up from the Vario that's sat next to it. I'm using mine at work for batch brew with a Brazen. I tested with my DE1 for espresso before taking it to work and espresso was achievable (wasn't on my vario with same burrs and precisio before that). It's my third Baratza and I've never had a reliability issue with any of them.

Retention isn't massive and there are mods to improve it but as I'm brewed it's not a problem. I don't single dose it as the grind consistency isn't as good as with the hopper loaded. I certainly wouldn't single dose for espresso size doses.

It's pretty loud, less so with the lid on the hopper, but would probably annoy someone in an adjacent bedroom.

I've not noticed setting drift but I'm not sure I would at batch brew settings.....

Couple of notes RE: previous posts

Despite Rao's post on Instagram, mine needed aligning. I presume that they either aligned his or found one that was bang on before sending it to him.

Rao doesn't drink neat espresso.

It's worth noting that grinding with the Brew burrs at espresso level takes forever, but then my other grinder's an EK43


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Thanks @Xpenno for this, this is exactly what I was after.

Given that single dosing espresso is a must for me (I can't really get by only drinking one kind of espresso day to day, don't know why but I much prefer having different shots each time), and that sound is important - I think the Forte should be stricken off the list. I did get a bit suspicious when I red that Rao originally bought a Sette, wrote to Baratza saying it wasn't what he was looking for and they replaced it with a Forte for free. I did think they might have spent extra time aligning it just for him in this case... Shame to hear that's the case.

Sounds like a good grinder, but just not for my uses. Thanks again


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

HBLP said:


> Thanks @Xpenno I did get a bit suspicious when I red that Rao originally bought a Sette, wrote to Baratza saying it wasn't what he was looking for and they replaced it with a Forte for free. I did think they might have spent extra time aligning it just for him in this case... Shame to hear that's the case.
> 
> Sounds like a good grinder, but just not for my uses. Thanks again


I think that's an assumption more than a case? Why couldn't Scott align his own burrs? Didn't he say that he was keeping the steel burrs in because he didn't want to go through the faff of aligning the ceramics?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> I love my Forte (with BG burrs currently), it's a big step up from the Vario that's sat next to it. I'm using mine at work for batch brew with a Brazen. I tested with my DE1 for espresso before taking it to work and espresso was achievable (wasn't on my vario with same burrs and precisio before that). It's my third Baratza and I've never had a reliability issue with any of them.
> 
> Retention isn't massive and there are mods to improve it but as I'm brewed it's not a problem. I don't single dose it as the grind consistency isn't as good as with the hopper loaded. I certainly wouldn't single dose for espresso size doses.
> 
> ...


Doesnt he make like verging on lungo espresso to drink ?


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

MWJB said:


> I think that's an assumption more than a case? Why couldn't Scott align his own burrs? Didn't he say that he was keeping the steel burrs in because he didn't want to go through the faff of aligning the ceramics?


Sorry I mean shame that it's the case that it's requiring alignment for some people anyway, rather than Baratza doing more than a home-user could do at home to get perfectly aligned burrs before shipping.

The thing about Baratza doing something special for Scott with alignment is indeed an assumption


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Doesnt he make like verging on lungo espresso to drink ?


He makes a regular sized 'espresso' (well maybe like 1:2.5-3 ratio or so) but always drinks it as a long black/americano. Claims espresso is too intense and one can't pick out flavours.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

HBLP said:


> He makes a regular sized 'espresso' (well maybe like 1:2.5-3 ratio or so) but always drinks it as a long black/americano. Claims espresso is too intense and one can't pick out flavours.


Well sometimes I agree with him on that.

Dilution wont change the extraction or base taste (say unlike milk).


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