# Used BE - Known Issues?



## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

Hi everyone, pretty much new to the espresso game, been using a Delonghi Icona for the last week or so which I’ve really enjoyed but already suffering badly with upgraditis. Having been looking into a multitude of options with about £600 budget I am planning to go for a Barista Express as that seems to tick all the boxes for my needs. I have just seen a BE on marketplace for £325 and I’m wondering how much of a gamble is picking up on of these machines used? I realise there are a multitude of factors such as owner maintenance that play a part in this however in general is there a lot that can go wrong? I’m happy enough to buy new knowing that I’ll get a full warranty, likely to hold out until the likes of Black Friday to try and get a deal on one so no major rush but would it be too much of a gamble buying used and having no warranty?

Thanks I’m advance for any advice offered.


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## General-S-1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Its a very big gamble. Spare parts are not readily available. Unless its a refurb with at least 12 months warranty, i would avoid. 
If you are set on Sage, new is the way to go. 
Good luck


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## grahams999tle (8 mo ago)

Hi, very new to this like you. I have read that Sage/Breville machines can be a bit risky secondhand due to the manufacturer not supplying spares or repairing old machines. 
I was also considering going down the secondhand route on these machines until I read this. 
I consider myself to be risk averse and as a result have just ordered a Sage Bambino Plus which I am awaiting delivery. I have also ordered a separate grinder as everyone on here will tell you the grinder is more important than the espresso machine. Good luck with your decision. Lots of good reading on this forum.
Cheers G


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## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

grahams999tle said:


> Hi, very new to this like you. I have read that Sage/Breville machines can be a bit risky secondhand due to the manufacturer not supplying spares or repairing old machines.
> I was also considering going down the secondhand route on these machines until I read this.
> I consider myself to be risk averse and as a result have just ordered a Sage Bambino Plus which I am awaiting delivery. I have also ordered a separate grinder as everyone on here will tell you the grinder is more important than the espresso machine. Good luck with your decision. Lots of good reading on this forum.
> Cheers G


Thanks for your reply Graham, I think you’re spot on regarding the risks of going second hand, especially from an unknown source so to speak, reckon I’d much rather know I have warranty really to cover any issues thank take the risk of having to buy twice for the sake of saving a few hundred quid.


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## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

General-S-1 said:


> Its a very big gamble. Spare parts are not readily available. Unless its a refurb with at least 12 months warranty, i would avoid.
> If you are set on Sage, new is the way to go.
> Good luck


Thanks General, appreciate the advice, wasn’t aware that spare parts were an issue so that’s vital information to have and certainly makes warranty a must have. I’m not set on Sage as such but with the tech they seem to integrate into their machines they seem to be better than the equivalent delonghi from what I’ve managed to read so far. I am considering the Delonghi Specialista Arte or possibly the DTP with either a grinder pro or likes of a second hand mignon but I do like the idea of it all being part of one machine, think my wife will be more agreeable to that too. I do enjoy a couple of cappuccini in the morning then move onto espresso in the afternoon but am also really enjoying the process of making them so want it to remain as manual a process as possible. If you have any other recommendations around the £600 I’d be happy to add them to my list.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

One very important point that is often missed is that the biggest 'killer' of coffee machines is hard water.
This deposits limescale in the boilers, pipework and solenoids, reducing / restricting heating capacity and blocking
pipework and valves.
General purpose filters, eg jug filters do not remove sufficient of the hardness to protect the coffee machine.
Descaling regularly helps but will not recover a severely scaled up machine.
Even if you are handy with tools, spares or often not available (Sage)

As already stated, the most important tool is the grinder, a separate grinder is the better solution.
Hand grinders can be a good option 'but' they can become a chore if making several drinks.

Just more food for thought


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## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

El carajillo said:


> One very important point that is often missed is that the biggest 'killer' of coffee machines is hard water.
> This deposits limescale in the boilers, pipework and solenoids, reducing / restricting heating capacity and blocking
> pipework and valves.
> General purpose filters, eg jug filters do not remove sufficient of the hardness to protect the coffee machine.
> ...


Great advice again, thank you. I live in Glasgow and we’re lucky to have extremely soft water here so hopefully that side of maintenance shouldn’t be too bad, the used machine is local so would imagine it would be ok but again cannot say if any maintenance has been performed on it so definitely not worth the risk, I’ll be buying new for sure. In terms of grinder it’s certainly a very important part of the purchase, the integrated grinder in the BE seems to be in general capable for my need, I think I prefer a medium to dark roast so should have the issues that lighter roasts might present, that being said I’m open to all ideas that fit into my budget, I’m ideally looking for reliability, consistent results once dialled in and something that guests should hopefully be able to use easily enough with a pressurised basket should it be required.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

As said above the killer with many machines is scale, but even more with those sages as they have a thermocoil system which unlike a boiler has very small pipes leading to easy blockage. 

And as others have mentioned the parts are impossible to get to. 

Personally if I was buying a sage I'd pay the extra and get it new. They certainly aren't worth the 300-400 second hand people seem to be asking.


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## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

TomHughes said:


> As said above the killer with many machines is scale, but even more with those sages as they have a thermocoil system which unlike a boiler has very small pipes leading to easy blockage.
> 
> And as others have mentioned the parts are impossible to get to.
> 
> Personally if I was buying a sage I'd pay the extra and get it new. They certainly aren't worth the 300-400 second hand people seem to be asking.


Thanks for the advice Tom, I’m definitely not going to risk going second hand, still weighing up what to go for as from further research the pro seems to be worth the extra money over the express with its additional grind settings. Do you know if the likes of the Delonghi specialista is a more serviceable machine in terms of obtaining spare parts etc?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Mike__R said:


> Thanks for the advice Tom, I’m definitely not going to risk going second hand, still weighing up what to go for as from further research the pro seems to be worth the extra money over the express with its additional grind settings. Do you know if the likes of the Delonghi specialista is a more serviceable machine in terms of obtaining spare parts etc?


I have no idea about the Delonghi I'm afraid. All of those machines are designed to be appliances so very limited fixing options. 
I would just get it from Lakeland etc. and pay for an extended warranty. Then feed it only good water and descale every 6 months regardless. 

I have had the BE and the Pro and I would avoid the pro. The thermojet was a step backwards, the 3 second heat-up is a lie, the machine can theoretically put out hot water in 3 seconds, but like my Osmio (which also lied) it's nowhere near hot enough as all the metal, grouphead etc. robs it. 
You end up flushing 5 times to get it near temp. 

Then if you like milk drinks the pro can't keep up with steam demand, so splutters water making split milk and no chance of decent latte art. 

I thought it was me originally, but then got a La pavoni (very dry steam) and realised what the problem was. 

If you switch the steam wand and put it in a glass you see the constant spurts of water. Terrible machine. My classic/la pavoni made much better coffee!


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## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

TomHughes said:


> I have no idea about the Delonghi I'm afraid. All of those machines are designed to be appliances so very limited fixing options.
> I would just get it from Lakeland etc. and pay for an extended warranty. Then feed it only good water and descale every 6 months regardless.
> 
> I have had the BE and the Pro and I would avoid the pro. The thermojet was a step backwards, the 3 second heat-up is a lie, the machine can theoretically put out hot water in 3 seconds, but like my Osmio (which also lied) it's nowhere near hot enough as all the metal, grouphead etc. robs it.
> ...


Thanks for that info on the pro, I had been leaning towards that but will have to go back to the drawing board I think regarding my next step, it’s a shame as both the BE and the pro appealed as a somewhat tidy solution with ti being all in one and they are decent looking machine, I’d say milk based will account for at least 50% of what I make though so steam being good is vital. Appreciate the insight, thanks again Tom.

This is as good as I’ve been able to get so far on my Icona, not bad by any means but I know it could be much better.


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## shaun**** (Oct 24, 2015)

if you’re after reliability you could do worse than a used gaggia classic and an entry level grinder like a mignon. parts are easily available for the classic and it’s very easy to fix. the mignon is decent for the money and you will make nice coffee. mine cost about £400 in total and they’ve been very good for the two years i’ve been using them. 

i took the boiler apart on the classic recently for maintenance and ended up shearing a few bolts and getting them stuck. unable to remove them, i bought a new boiler and group head for about £60 odd and fixed it in half an hour with tools i had lying about the house. i’m definitely no engineer. i think i’ll still be using them both in ten years.


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## Mike__R (8 mo ago)

shaun**** said:


> if you’re after reliability you could do worse than a used gaggia classic and an entry level grinder like a mignon. parts are easily available for the classic and it’s very easy to fix. the mignon is decent for the money and you will make nice coffee. mine cost about £400 in total and they’ve been very good for the two years i’ve been using them.
> 
> i took the boiler apart on the classic recently for maintenance and ended up shearing a few bolts and getting them stuck. unable to remove them, i bought a new boiler and group head for about £60 odd and fixed it in half an hour with tools i had lying about the house. i’m definitely no engineer. i think i’ll still be using them both in ten years.


Thanks for the advice Shaun, I had wondered about going down the Gaggia route, from what I've read you want a PID in place and potentially some other mods to regulate pressure etc which I wouldn't be adverse to doing but at the same time it's a level of time and hassle that I don't think I'd have much time for at the moment. I do have my concerns with the longer term reliability of the Sage machines and the lack of spares is definitely far from ideal. Having watched some Hoffman reviews of machines up to £1500 such as Lelit it really seems like there is no perfect solution that ticks all the boxes so it's all about finding something that fits your budget and needs, so much to think about.


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## shaun**** (Oct 24, 2015)

Mike__R said:


> Thanks for the advice Shaun, I had wondered about going down the Gaggia route, from what I've read you want a PID in place and potentially some other mods to regulate pressure etc which I wouldn't be adverse to doing but at the same time it's a level of time and hassle that I don't think I'd have much time for at the moment. I do have my concerns with the longer term reliability of the Sage machines and the lack of spares is definitely far from ideal. Having watched some Hoffman reviews of machines up to £1500 such as Lelit it really seems like there is no perfect solution that ticks all the boxes so it's all about finding something that fits your budget and needs, so much to think about.


a couple of thoughts:

you could by a used one that already had the mods you need. often this will mean it’s also been well looked after and likely in decent condition. keep an eye open here and other forums, they appear for sale quite a lot.

but also, i don’t think a pid is absolutely necessary. mine doesn’t have one. i thought about adding one in the early days with it but when i weighed up the pros and cons i concluded there’s not really a need as it already makes decent cups of espresso for my needs. i didn’t, and don’t, have a problem that needed fixed, if you see what i mean. mine had the 9 bar pressure and sylvia steam wand when i bought it, and i think that’s really all that’s required for me. i switch it on when i wake up and it stays on until i leave the house. for one or two shots at a time it’s fine, especially if you suss how the lights work and how to temp surf.


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