# French Press without the press



## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I've been reading that French Press is the closest brew method to cupping. So i thought i really ought to get to grips with it and got a small FP (325ml) for the grand price of £4 from Asda.

Putting together a technique which is based on the no plunge (James Hoffman) and MWJB's wisdom on previous threads (thanks btw!) - i've come up with some great tasting results.

Technique as follows: 15 or 16g coffee (finely ground - coarse espresso) into 300ml water. Pre heat FP. Water to 250ml straight in off boil, add coffee, pour rest over top and stir gently to incorporate. Then 1 stir from top to bottom with the aeropress paddle. Plunger on top. At 4 mins scoop of crema and insert plunger 1cm to encourage any floaters to sink. Leave until it gets to a temperature ready to drink or when i taste something good (finding that this can keep temps for 35mins or so). After 20mins or so i pour off a bit then taste and repeat every few mins until the sweetness kicks in.

What i'm finding and wondering is why there is so much initial discard before it tastes good? It's supposed to be the most even extraction method out there but it seems very stratified with the top part seemingly under extracted and the bottom part over extracted. Out of the 300ml brew i reckon i'm only drinking the middle 180ml at most. Is it just that gravity sinks the grounds and they extract in situ at the bottom leaving the top under extracted?

Does this apply to cupping as well i.e. the top part of the cup won't taste as good as the central part?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

It is a pretty even way of extracting, compared to drip - which can be many times the average strength of the beverage to start with (with respect to what's landing in the cup), then substantially weaker at the final drips. The stratification may partly be due to a little unevenness in the extraction, but also due to oils collecting at the top of the pot, these add body & mouthfeel but don't really carry much in the way of coffee flavour.

This can make a significant taste difference & perception of level of extraction, but measured TDS can be almost the same (if not the same) as the rest of the pot. Even with a drip brew, different portions, with the same average TDS can be very different in terms of colour, taste & mouthfeel. The oils are part of the tactile experience of the cup, affect flavour perception, but are not counted towards dissolved solids (extraction yield).

I generally pour off a shot glass worth (30-40ml) from a 300g pot, then decant (which mixes the brew) & find the resulting cup pretty consistent until the last sip or two that may have a little dust. Maybe try going a little finer still on the grind? I'm at 0.38 of a turn on my Lido1, about an eighth of a turn out past the first signs of burr rub (OE consider this in the Turkish range).

I drink from a 1/3 pint glass, so yeah, once you have got rid of the oils and avoided the worst of the silt at the bottom you are losing around 100g of your brew water. It's swings & roundabouts, if you brewed stronger say 21g dose, that'll soak up well over twice its own weight in water, less anything you skim off, these losses are inevitable with a pour on/pour off brewer (French press, Sowden, Eva Solo), but much less with an Aeropress or siphon.

For a French press, if I'm leaving it 10-20mins (or longer), I don't bother breaking any crust, or sinking any floaters any more. Just make sure the coffee is all wet to start with and beat it up as little as possible. Maybe gently insert the plunger to start with (don't pump it, just push down once, enough to wet the grinds but not enough to get a layer of liquid above them?). I don't usually insert the plunger until it's time to pour, I just put the lid on & if I'm feeling really nerdy, watch the temperature via a thermometer down the plunger hole. Then at time to decant I have the one piece, nylon meshes, assemble lid & plunger in about 10seconds and good to go.

I have noticed a very big pot (1.5l) can be very slow to extract don't know why as yet, maybe something to do with the ratio of floating dose (submerging with plunger may help?), going to do some big pot, little pot A/B tests. I'm even wondering whether the faster temp decline (little pot) somehow speeds extraction (seems to be something Todd Carmichael observed with his Dragon brewer).


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> ...with the top part seemingly under extracted and the bottom part over extracted.


The bottom part is perhaps overextracted, but this seems generally unlikely, as you get nearer the bottom of the pot you get more tiny particles into the beverage, these can be quite bittering, the trick is trying to minimise them. As these are still undissolved solids, they're not (nor resultant bitterness) technically overextracted...minimal, or just enough, agitation at the start may help reduce this, but a degree of it comes with the territory.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm currently grinding at just over 1 turn from zero on the Hausgrind. I will try going finer. Should i decrease the dosage?

What i'm finding is that other brew methods are very hit and miss (for me anyway). With the FP i seem to be getting repeatable delicious results with all the beans i have tried. Maybe losing some acidity but gaining sweetness. I'm thinking of it a bit like a sandwich - the tasty part is in the middle!

I reckon i'm pouring out the first 75ml before hitting some sweetness, then pour into the cup just until i can see the silt moving at the bottom of the FP. I got exactly 180ml last time and the last 20ml had a wee touch of silt and less sweetness.

I've been putting in one stir (aeropress paddle fully inserted) after skimming the crema - not sure whether this has much effect.

Talking of TDS, would the TDS of the sweetspot brew match that of the first part containing the oils?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I wouldn't necessarily reduce dosage if you go finer, though having said that...I am typically at 16:300g & gradually creeping up on the water...15:300g is probably as low as I'd go...

Re. TDS, it would probably be in the sweetspot for both parts of the brew...but when taking TDS measurements from an unfiltered brew, bear in mind we're taking the sample from ~1cm under the surface, then filtering via a syringe filter to purge any solids (inc. lipids)...and syringe filters get expensive quickly if taking multiple sample from the same pot/cup. So the refractometer might not see any difference (it's really interested in an average reading/sample to establish EY), even if you do.

Once you have filled the pot, combined grounds & water satisfactorily, I wouldn't stir it again later, my theory is once everything is well wet, unnecessary agitation makes it more likely that bits of the bean structure will break down into the beverage. I was patting down my Sowden brews until no grounds could be seen at the surface, often getting a pruney, bitter flavour towards the end. Just enough wetting (not so little it fails to extract well - it is a bit of a judgement call & probably the biggest room for inconsistency outside of grind & ratio) has helped keep them sweet all the way through (my daily cup is half the first pour, half the last pour, my colleagues get the middle bit).


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks again. I'll keep the dose the same and go finer and see what changes that makes.

You certainly have some lucky colleagues!

I didn't realise that there are extra consumables involved (e.g. syringe filters) for using a refractometer. It's expensive enough as it is...


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

In France they don't use French Presses.........lol


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Thanks again. I'll keep the dose the same and go finer and see what changes that makes.
> 
> You certainly have some lucky colleagues!
> 
> I didn't realise that there are extra consumables involved (e.g. syringe filters) for using a refractometer. It's expensive enough as it is...


The syringe filters are only really for espresso & unfiltered brews, V60 etc. is usually OK without. It's the same for any extraction yield measurement, in the old days when they used dehydration, they still had to filter the brew before drying (you always have to exclude solids)...which then took hours in an expensive oven & then expensive milligram lab scales. I often do 2 presses at a time, so that doubles everything up too, the filters are a quid something each...so it stacks up if you get carried away, but in normal use (a couple a week for me, I don't measure many steeps because they're very consistent) it's fine. Defeats the object of buying an expensive & sensitive tool if you don't get realistic readings, sure it seems expensive but it's made extraction yield measurement much faster & much more accessible.

I figured early on, people are much more tolerant of the time spent in the office kitchen & worktime coffee geekery if they get something out of it too


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

espressotechno said:


> In France they don't use French Presses.........lol


Pfft...that's because they just call them "presses"


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Went turkish this morning (half turn or 0.6 on the Hausgrind). Phew, hard work on a hand grinder! 16g/300ml. After incorporating the coffee i very slowly depressed the plunger about 2/3 of the way down and brought it back up again. No stir or breaking crust.

Poured off 50ml at 25min. Hit nice sweetness at 27min and poured 180ml.

Tasty indeed. It seemed more uniform than yesterdays brew which had a 1.1 grind and 23min steep. Brought out more sweetness but a darker "stronger" background, but i was 15/300 yesterday. Definetly something to fine tune.

Do you find yourself changing the grind for different beans with your FP method? I reckon that slight variations in dosage and/or steep time can probably see me sticking with much the same grind.

Possibly the simplest/cheapest/most forgiving/most consistent brewing technique out there? All you need is scales and a little patience...


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

espressotechno said:


> In France they don't use French Presses.........lol


Err, yeah they do. Most households have at least one.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Pfft...that's because they just call them "presses"


I love that joke and its relations....what do you call a Brussels Sprout in Brussels was the first I heard. Had some fun with what do you call a Danish pastry in Denmark when I lived there (answer: Vienna Bread - which begs the question....)


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Indian food in india.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Brazil nuts in Brazil.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

French letters in France...just letters, must lead to considerable embarrassment?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Bombay mix (or Mumbai medley) in the capital of Maharashtra


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Do you find yourself changing the grind for different beans with your FP method? I reckon that slight variations in dosage and/or steep time can probably see me sticking with much the same grind.
> 
> Possibly the simplest/cheapest/most forgiving/most consistent brewing technique out there? All you need is scales and a little patience...


I don't really change the grind for different beans, if I do it's still within the range of 0.25 to 0.5 of a turn (+/- an eighth of a turn from where I am now) & usually because of an unusually slow to extract bean & I soon end up back at the original setting. A different pot might need a change in grind, if it's wider & more room for slurry & water to slosh around in the bottom at pouring then coarser might reduce bittering solids in the cup?

I use the same grind for Clever & French press, Turkish (if made with the Lido1). More likely just to vary time according to taste. Sowden I grind coarser than for French press, because the grounds are suspended within the brew & more possibility of fines getting into the bulk of the brew, rather than sinking out of the way to the bottom.

Agree with everything you say about the French press, I do prefer the Sowden (better clarity) but it's typically slower & more expensive than a regular press...I have fallen out of love with the French press many times, tried all sorts of filtering schemes & wacky techniques, but with a few adjustments to technique & ratio I seem to find I can again & again get it back to being a great brewer & a great datum/leveller. After all, it's essentially just a pot, it does nothing beyond sit there & hold grounds & water together until you pour the coffee...most of the variables, successes & defects tend to come from what we do with it.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> I have fallen out of love with the French press many times, tried all sorts of filtering schemes & wacky techniques, but with a few adjustments to technique & ratio I seem to find I can again & again get it back to being a great brewer & a great datum/leveller. After all, it's essentially just a pot, it does nothing beyond sit there & hold grounds & water together until you pour the coffee...most of the variables, successes & defects tend to come from what we do with it.


I was thinking along the lines of why do i need a French Press for this method as i'm not using it as intended. All we really need is a pot with a ideally a pouring spout and lid. Is there a vessel out there (perhaps not intended for coffee) with a different shape that might give more even extraction? Or is the FP the ideal shape?

I was also thinking about trying different filtrations to see how they effect taste. I can use my chemex to hold either a chemex or V60 filter paper. There would probably be more heat loss than i would like by the time it was poured out of the FP, filtered then poured into the cup. Do you know if the more upmarket double walled FP's like espro hold the heat better than the single glass? I could just try placing my microwavable red wine bottle warmer round it. Must give it a go.

Another thought which i must try out with my Bonavita Immersion brewer (or Clever for that matter) is that if you use this in the same way as the FP then at the point of releasing the valve everything is in the same order as the FP. Grounds at bottom, presumably sweet brew in the middle? and less so at the top. So in theory the first 50ml or so thats sitting on top of the grounds will be "stronger" , the middle perfect, and the last 40ml or so "weak". Must try that later on.

I think the Sowden will be my next brewer. The brews from it sound delicious!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Basic FP seems hard to improve, we might not be using the mesh to plunge, but it's still being used as a filter (it's just not driving any migration of fines from the bed into brew anymore), it doesn't catch everything of course, but when I have done without it altogether sometimes get big bits of chaff in the cup. Any glass/ceramic jug (my gran used to use a jug & muslin strainer) would work, filter/fine mesh sieve(?) I favour tall & narrow over short & squat.

A plastic V60 will take either Chemex or V60 paper too, I don't recommend the v60 paper for filtering a FP, great for actual brewing, but can shift a filtered FP to more bitterness. My preference is white Filtropa, but takes a while to drain, maybe fill & preheat a Bonavita (drain preheat water, shut valve, fill with FP brew, excluding grinds, a moment to let it settle, the open valve & drain)? I tend to just use a pourover cone in the clean up. You might have to brew stronger to not reduce flavour & body with a 15-16:300 FP after filtering.

Yes, the double wall FP's hold the heat better, but bizarrely, this doesn't seem to make a big difference to speed of extraction, does give a bigger window of hot coffee though (20mins for a single wall glass Bodum 16:300 to hit 70C, 40 mins for Bodum Colombia 28:500 to hit 70C). Eva Solo comes with a cosy. I have a couple of stoneware/ceramic presses, preheated they hold heat well. Steel can shift the flavour (updose slightly), sometimes for the better, sometimes not.

Bonavita & Clever (& Aeropress inverted) vs FP - The steep & release brewers let the last part of the extraction out first, the bed also acts as filtration assisting the paper, oils can be largely caught & absorbed by the bed (especially if water goes in first, then coffee), whereas with FP the oils are first out & latest extraction remains trapped in the bed. Draining the steep & release brewers also seems to pick up more TDS compared to French press, at the same grind, BR & steep time (you can obviously change grind to normalise TDS, a slightly higher yield with steep & release doesn't seem to be a big issue generally). Clever & Bonavita, I haven't noticed a marked drop in strength towards the end of a long steep, in fact as the brewer empties you might see a rise in TDS at the end as the flow through the bed slows down? This isn't always an indicator of a problem with taste though.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Do you know if the more upmarket double walled FP's like espro hold the heat better than the single glass? I could just try placing my microwavable red wine bottle warmer round it. Must give it a go.


Another thought, I have used a pan of hot water as a bath for cups, this has had a noticeable but not massive effect on speeding extraction. I heat up the pan of water (fill with preboiled water) get it to desired temp, take off the hob then drop in a silicon mat to eliminate hotspots on the glass & put the just filled glasses in the pan.

I think part of the safety mechanism of a glass French press is that the temperature decline might make for a slow brew (though doesn't have to if you want to brew quicker), but also is good protection against terminal overextraction.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

or "la cafetiere"


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

espressotechno said:


> or "la cafetiere"


...yeah, but in LA they call 'em French presses...


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> I think part of the safety mechanism of a glass French press is that the temperature decline might make for a slow brew (though doesn't have to if you want to brew quicker), but also is good protection against terminal overextraction.


Noticed that earlier on today. I had to go out so set a FP brew going and left it until i got back which was 40mins later. Still drinkable and remarkably warm - the sweetness was there but was combined with a noticebly tannic and slightly bitter background. The same brew yesterday at 30mins was at a much tastier place. So in those 10mins albeit at lowish temps (guess low to mid 60's C) it had continued to slowly extract and headed toward a different place. It might have come good again if i'd left it even longer.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

"Tannic" interesting, like grapeskins, how much agitation? That phrase suggests a little overagitation to me. You can get a flat/woody/carbony phase just before sweetness comes out...not sure I'd call that tannic though?


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Cos, being American, they can't spell cafetiere, or too lazy to pronounce it correctly.....lol


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> "Tannic" interesting, like grapeskins, how much agitation? That phrase suggests a little overagitation to me. You can get a flat/woody/carbony phase just before sweetness comes out...not sure I'd call that tannic though?


Very little agitation, just a gentle stirring at the top to incorporate the coffee as it tends to clump when ground this fine. By tannic, i mean as in the type of taste you can get from a very strong black tea (usually cheap tea bags). Not sweet like stewed tea but seems darker with a bitter edge. Some people like it. I'd associate it with a slight over extraction but that's a guess on my part.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Tried the Bonavita Immersion just now. Sampled it at different stages. 30min brew. 15g/280ml. Fine grind - gentle stirring at top to incorporate coffee. Probably need to updose a bit more due to filtration.

First 50ml - not sweet, not sour, not much really, insipid, but not terrible

Next 50 - Way better so decanted all but the last 50 and had a pleasant brew.

Last 50 - Sweeter with more "body" - would have enhanced the overall brew.

So based on a n=1 sample, i might try a few more of these just discarding the first part of the brew like the French Press.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Tried an experiment this afternoon that i doubt i'll repeat - Chemex as an immersion brewer (3-6 cup "size 2" chemex - capacity 1 litre)

I wondered if the wider base would make a difference to extraction but what i think i discovered really was that there is little point using a vessel not suited to the volume of brew. I was brewing 300ml. This would have worked better (i think) with the small chemex.

The resulting brew was drinkable and actually the design of the chemex makes it easy to pour without silt as it naturally keeps the grinds down at the bottom. It's not that different from the carafe shape of the Eva Solo. The first part of the brew was actually not that far off the rest unlike the FP. It needed a bit more agitation (gave it a few initial swirls) for a better extraction. I suspect that the temperature declines quicker because it's only a third full compared to the small FP which is almost at capacity.

The lesson would seem to be - match the volume of your brew with the capacity of the brewer for best results?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Tried the Bonavita Immersion just now. Sampled it at different stages. 30min brew. 15g/280ml. Fine grind - gentle stirring at top to incorporate coffee. Probably need to updose a bit more due to filtration.


Good observation, I tend to brew ~64g/l in Clever/Bonavita, otherwise it can be a bit thin.


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