# Comandante C40 Owners, Boiling water for V60?



## meelypops (Mar 3, 2020)

Hey,

First post after falling further into the coffee rabbit hole.

I have a comandante c40, I tend to brew v60.

When dialing in coffee I have been recommended by various roasters that I've ordered from to brew the v60 at as high a temperature as possible - so right off the boil - this advice also seems to be reflected in the new James Hoffman video on youtube as well.

I have been trying this for some time with a variety of roasts/origins/grind sizes and with boiling water there always tends to be less flavour, the predominant notes are almost always a weird syrupy caramel taste that is consistent through most roasts (though not with aeropress or french press). The taste tends to be much better between 92-96c.

I was wondering whether anyone had an explanation for this and whether any other Comandante owners had experienced anything similar?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Boiling water (in the kettle) has been recommended for drip brewing for 70years. 93/94c is suggested as the slurry temp. I think the SCAA confused everyone in their early years by callling it ""brew water temp", rather than brew temp. (They copied most of this from the CBI research & the CBI described a typical temperature drop in the brewer, from boiling in the kettle).

"Weird, syrupy, caramel", irrespective of your coffee is down to wrong grind size selection &/or pour rate (maybe too fine a grind, maybe to fast/agitated a pour).

Lower temp brew water will yield lower extractions and longer brew times, maybe you do like lower extractions...but even so, what you're describing isn't normal.

Anecdotally, a lot of folk with C40s seem to have trouble with drip brewing, I have no idea why.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Ignore almost all V60 advice you see on the internet (including James Hoffman, excluding @MWJB), mostly they overcomplicate and are subpar. Unfortunately so many of the advice is flat out wrong, unnecessary or very hard to be consistent with.

Boiling water will not contribute any bad flavour. What coffees are you using?

To start with, use a simple, easily repeatable recipe modifying only the grind size. Ignore total brew time. A good starting point is 12g of coffee. Pour 100g of water within 15 sec saturating all of the bed. at 1:00 pour another 100g with 15 sec and then let it drain. Use a medium grind with the Comandante, maybe 26-28 clicks (I don't have one but referencing other people who have used it.)? Report back here with results.


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## meelypops (Mar 3, 2020)

Thanks all for the replies

Yeah I understand the advice and I'm not contradicting it. My question is more whether my experience matches that of anyone else who is using this grinder

I do spend a good period of time at least attempting to dial in a coffee so the water temperatures are tested across a pretty wide array of grind sizes.

I use coffees from a variety of roasters, girls who grind, craft, rave, union, crank house, Django.

Lots of Ethiopians, Rwandans and some Costa Ricans.

In any case I'll try the suggestions and report back, in the mean time I'm still curious to hear other users experiences.


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## garethuk (May 2, 2019)

Hi @meelypops

I also use a Comandante C40 and have V60 as my prime brew method. Lots of good advice on this forum so do look around. One thing I've come to find is that I was grinding to fine to start with (around 16 to 20 clicks on the Comandante). I now grind for V60 at around 26 to 27 clicks as a starting point. This may vary depending upon the bean, but seems to be a good starting point.

In terms of water temp, not sure exactly. I have a process which I follow each time to ensure a similar water temp, by which I warm up my (non-electric) Gooseneck kettle and then replace that water from the electric kettle. So at a guess it's been off boil for approximately 30 seconds.

I'll try to post a video in the next day or so.

Gareth


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## garethuk (May 2, 2019)

here's my preferred recipe at the min...

18:300 brew (15g coffee, total 250ml water) 
1. 30g bloom for 30 seconds, 
dig & wiggle (TW 30g)
2. at 30 seconds add 55g, spiral (TW 85g)
3. at 1 min add 55g, spiral (TW 140g)
4. at 1:30 add 55g, straight down the middle (TW 195g)
5. at 2 mins add last 55g, down the middle (TW 250g)
6. swirl and tap

I think this was from a very helpful post by @MWJB, who is awesome.


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## blackbeard (Feb 28, 2020)

meelypops said:


> Hey,
> 
> First post after falling further into the coffee rabbit hole.
> 
> ...


 My main brewing method is v60 using the comandante. I tend to brew somewhere around 20 clicks when using boiling water, which I'm happy with. Not experienced the predominant flavours you're describing.

Have you tried going as finely as you can before it gets bitter and then increasing the number of clicks from there?


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## garethuk (May 2, 2019)

Here's the promised video...






Hopefully it's helpful, not suggesting i'm a pro in any way, just found what works for me.

Gareth


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

meelypops said:


> I do spend a good period of time at least attempting to dial in a coffee so the water temperatures are tested across a pretty wide array of grind sizes.
> 
> I use coffees from a variety of roasters, girls who grind, craft, rave, union, crank house, Django.
> 
> ...


 Spending a good period of time dialling in individual coffees doesn't seem right, if you have a good method & are consistent, you should need very minor changes at the most (ideally none). For me, spread of working grind sizes for a given method/brew weights might be a span 15% in adjustment with a conical hand grinder.

If you change something with every new bag, you'll go round in circles. Try and identify a datum in terms of grind setting & pour regime, then try that setting with a few coffees, without any changes. The evaluate what you think is generally wrong in terms of those collective brews. However, if both your Rwandan and your Costa Rican both come out obviously under-extracted, grind finer (the Rwandan will likely extract more on average, so I'd use that as guide to over-extraction, the Costs Rican is likely to extract less - by over-extraction I specifically mean bitter, drying smoke/bitter hop like flavours - not necessarily woody, or charred bitter flavours).

If your grind size is OK for typical extractions and you go coarser & cooler, you're only going to under-extract. This doesn't seem desirable to me.


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