# Beginners Jug ??



## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Motta was suggested as a make already but there seem to be style choices

Size choices too it seems...... currently thinking 500ml is good but will eventually be making 4 latte's at once.

Using with Fracino Classic

Thoughts anyone?


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

For latte art I would suggest one with a well defined spout, so for Motta that would be the Europa style. Cheap they ain't but nicely made to look good for a long time. I got my self a small one from cream supplies who seem to be best priced and have a bigger cheap jug for multiple drinks steaming. I just pour into the smaller one for the pour and my mostly crappy latte fart efforts


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Wobin19 said:


> ...have a bigger cheap jug for multiple drinks steaming. I just pour into the smaller one for the pour and my mostly crappy latte fart efforts


That's what I do


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Worth getting a 250ml jug? seems a bit small to me but I know nothing.


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## Firochromis (Oct 26, 2014)

grumpydaddy said:


> Worth getting a 250ml jug? seems a bit small to me but I know nothing.


I don't know more than you, but for 1 cappuccino (which is a frequent situation en my home) 250-300ml seems a better size.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

That's what I use. I'm equally ignorant but it works for me.


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## Rawk (Nov 17, 2014)

Most of the videos I see show people foaming up 1 persons worth of milk at a time - are big jugs (steady) a bad idea? If I got a Gaggia Classic, for example, would it not be able to froth up 4 peoples milk in one go?


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Rawk said:


> Most of the videos I see show people foaming up 1 persons worth of milk at a time - are big jugs (steady) a bad idea? If I got a Gaggia Classic, for example, would it not be able to froth up 4 peoples milk in one go?


Others may disagree but in my experience with the Classic, doing larger quantities of milk is a struggle, especially if you want good, consistent microfoam.

I generally did one or two coffee's milk at a time with my Cherub as I couldn't get uniformly good milk for larger quantities to be honest. I think if you do some pouring back and forth with smaller and bigger jugs like you can see Barista Dritan Alsela do on You Tube it might work though.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You Classic would run out of puff steaming milk for two drinks probably


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> You Classic would run out of puff steaming milk for two drinks probably


I think the OP has a Fracino Classic rather than a Gaggia so should cope ok with it.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

With the Classic fitted with the Silvia wand you can comfortably foam milk for two drinks = about 250 ml of milk, more than this and you will really struggle. As already pointed out you will run out of steam because the boiler does not refill while steaming.

For jug size I would suggest a 50 cl one = 500 ml. This is then half filled to allow for expansion when foaming. It is also suitable to foam for one drink with a little care /practice.

I would agree with earlier post, the MOTTA EUROPA is expensive but it is beautifully made and will last a lifetime.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Rawk said:


> If I got a Gaggia Classic, for example, would it not be able to froth up 4 peoples milk in one go?





michaelg said:


> I think the OP has a Fracino Classic rather than a Gaggia so should cope ok with it.


I should have quoted


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Yup, agree though - a Gaggia Classic would struggle - I almost dreaded having multiple people over for coffee when I had my Classic. I'd try and steer them towards cafétière if possible.


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## Rawk (Nov 17, 2014)

Thanks all, if it can manage 2 people that's okay for starters. Now I've gone and looked up motta jugs (had not heard of them before), and that's something else to consider down the line, so thanks op  I shall stop hijacking your post now!


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

grumpydaddy said:


> ...Size choices too it seems...... currently thinking 500ml is good but will eventually be making 4 latte's at once.
> 
> Using with Fracino Classic
> 
> Thoughts anyone?


Hey Grumps,

Do you have one portafilter or two and is your machine a single group or 2 group?

If you're doing a party of people it can be handy to pre-dose the PFs so they're both ready to go.

On a 2 group you'd just set off both shots simultaneously immediately followed by steaming your milk.

Steam for two drinks at a time in a 16oz jug then if you have one - decant into a 12oz for latte art.

It can be a good idea to decant into the 12 then back into the 16 giving a good gentle swirl and then back into the 12 again to pour. Depends on how well your machine texturises the milk in the first place but it keeps the microfoam nicely blended.

If your machine has a single group head then it's easier steaming the milk for a single drink in a 12oz pitcher even for the slower steaming machines out there - I usually don't go beyond 55c but if doing a party in this scenario I find it sensible to take the temperature higher than usual so the first person who receives their drink hasn't downed it by the time the others receive theirs!


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

OK then. Won a couple of jugs on fleabay that are 8.3oz and 25oz respectively so I guess I need a 16.6oz = 500ml or thereabouts now.

Clearly one needs to emphasize the "Fracino" when there are so many "classic" owners.


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## cjroebuck (Dec 13, 2014)

How much milk do you think the Silvia could foam up reliably? Would it be good for 4 lattes worth of milk?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Beanosaurus said:


> Hey Grumps,
> 
> Do you have one portafilter or two and is your machine a single group or 2 group?
> 
> ...


How big are the lattes.

Doubt you'll do four of any size in one jug



cjroebuck said:


> How much milk do you think the Silvia could foam up reliably? Would it be good for 4 lattes worth of milk?


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## lukej (Nov 29, 2014)

In my experience, steaming for more than one drink at a time is a bad idea, it's much, much harder to get it just right and small home machines aren't cut out for it either. I remember reading somewhere that from a chemistry perspective, steaming larger volumes changes the way the lactase enzymes are affected meaning both the texture and flavour are altered and you lose the silkiness and sweetness that you need for perfectly finished milk.

Luke


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## cjroebuck (Dec 13, 2014)

lukej said:


> In my experience, steaming for more than one drink at a time is a bad idea, it's much, much harder to get it just right and small home machines aren't cut out for it either. I remember reading somewhere that from a chemistry perspective, steaming larger volumes changes the way the lactase enzymes are affected meaning both the texture and flavour are altered and you lose the silkiness and sweetness that you need for perfectly finished milk.
> 
> Luke


Interesting stuff, in that case, does it make sense to buy a 250ml jug for making one at a time, or would 350ml be a better size?


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## lukej (Nov 29, 2014)

I'd go for the 350ml for preference as I feel like I have better control over the pour with something that sits a little larger in my hand. Rattleware make a really nice macchiato pitcher that is my go to for lattes and free pouring (http://coffeehit.co.uk/barista-tools/milk-frothing-pitchers/rattleware-handle-free-12oz-macchiato-pitcher?___SID=U). Don't get drawn into anything above 400ml for home brewing, only the biggest drinks in cafes dictate larger pitchers, at home I'm sure people aren't expecting a bucket of coffee served instantly and a nicely crafted drink is king.

Luke


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

1 group, 2 portafilters but only one is naked.

Starting with one or two and getting that right first anyway.

Nice to get the jug to jug approach, thanks


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## cjroebuck (Dec 13, 2014)

Interesting. You prefer handleless for pouring?

I'm thinking of getting 2 similar sized jugs. I will probably be using the spare one for temp surfing on my silvia, as I heard the drip tray is pretty useless.


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

Motta Europa 50cl (from Cream supplies). With my Silvia I generally steam for two 160ml flat whites in one go which this jug is the perfect size for. Decant half to another jug, attempt latte art, decant back to Motta, attempt latte art.

2 small drinks is the max for Silvia steaming without refilling the boiler unless you're a fan of burning out the element. I haven't owned a classic but I understand the boiler is even smaller so same principle. Four lattes - forget it!


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

cjroebuck said:


> How much milk do you think the Silvia could foam up reliably? Would it be good for 4 lattes worth of milk?


Not nearly that much, unless they're piccolo-sized!

And if you're doing one drink at a time, I'd suggest a 35cl - it's easier to be consistent with slightly greater depth of milk


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## cjroebuck (Dec 13, 2014)

AussieExpat said:


> Motta Europa 50cl (from Cream supplies). With my Silvia I generally steam for two 160ml flat whites in one go which this jug is the perfect size for. Decant half to another jug, attempt latte art, decant back to Motta, attempt latte art.
> 
> 2 small drinks is the max for Silvia steaming without refilling the boiler unless you're a fan of burning out the element. I haven't owned a classic but I understand the boiler is even smaller so same principle. Four lattes - forget it!


Unfortunately all the 350ml and 500ml motta europa's are sold out at cream supplies, which is the cheapest price I can find them for online. Does anyone recommend the red/black/white teflon coated jugs (as they are still in stock)? Does it make any difference - i assume the teflon is just on the outside of the jug.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

lukej said:


> In my experience, steaming for more than one drink at a time is a bad idea, it's much, much harder to get it just right and small home machines aren't cut out for it either. I remember reading somewhere that from a chemistry perspective, steaming larger volumes changes the way the lactase enzymes are affected meaning both the texture and flavour are altered and you lose the silkiness and sweetness that you need for perfectly finished milk.
> 
> Luke


We'd better get Smarmbucks staff to stop steaming 4pints at a time then...


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## lukej (Nov 29, 2014)

Interestingly, worked for them for a year, always got in trouble for not doing it their way, which meant aiming for 4+ drinks a minute, whacking it in a cup and handing it off.

The daily frustration at overly syruped drinks and crap coffee wore me down, I had a row with the supervisor about quality and customer satisfaction got made their resident coffee boff after 3 months, then placed really well in their internal barista championship.

Apparently, making one drink at a time and spending only a few extra seconds preparing each cup with care actually means a better tasting drink and happier customers, who'd have thought it eh!

Now I work as a consultant to restaurants and hotels on how to improve their coffee









Luke


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Is that an independent venture or do you work for someone? Take it to PMs if need be.


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

cjroebuck said:


> Does anyone recommend the red/black/white teflon coated jugs (as they are still in stock)? Does it make any difference - i assume the teflon is just on the outside of the jug.


It's purely cosmetic.


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