# LPG generator power



## cafecitoingles (Jun 13, 2013)

Evening all!

I have been looking through as many threads as possible as not to try and ask any questions that have already been answered but I cannot seem to find the right outcome.

So...

Could someone please advise on power requirement. I have a Bezzera Ellisse single group machine, a Brasilia rr45 grinder and a flojet pump that I need to power in a mobile setup.

I have been looking at a Warrior 2.5Kva Lpg generator with built in inverter to power the espresso machine and flojet and was hoping that I could power the grinder via a battery and inverter.

Could someone please offer any advice on this as I am driving myself crazy.

Many thanks in advance as usual.

Chris.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Your problems going to be the intermittent draw of the single group espresso machine..e.g. full on when warming up, then on/off during the day....but a generator that's running all the time...

The grinder will power via a battery and inverter, suitably sized for startup current....Just remember though for every 250W your going to pull nearly 25 amps out of the battery while the grinder is running....a larger grinder up to 40 amps. Startup could briefly be double that and without an adequate inverter (sine wave), the grinder will be reluctant to start or could malfunction.

Usually mobile setups are better with a gas powered (heated) lever machine.....I wonder if it will be cheaper to sell your existing machine and buy a gas powered lever in the short to medium term.


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## cafecitoingles (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi Davecuk,

Thank you for the reply.

I started this project guns blazing and didn't fully think through the power situation....school boy error.

However, I am determined to figure out a solution.

Immediate options after reading you reply seem to be...

A)Spend £1400 on a more powerful LPG silent generator and probably £350 ish? On leisure batteries and inverter. (ALL VERY EXPENSIVE AND HEAVY BATTERIES)

B)Sell my Bezzera Ellisse and buy a dual fuel machine (PROBLEM BEING MY VAN DOESN'T HAVE A SIDE DOOR WHICH WOULD CAUSE ISSUES WITH VENTING THE GAS)

Back to the drawing board for a think..

Thanks,

Chris.


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

Silent generators are not that silent










I have a Honda EU10i and it's about as quiet as they come... the chinese copies like Kipor are not as quiet, I can't remember at what level, but when the db [decibel] level increases certain amount, I seem to remember this doubles the noise!

It's a tricky subject, especially with high power items, and start up requirements can be higher than the stated power rating.

The Honda EU20i is a 'silent' generator, and If memory serves, you can link two together to make a bigger power source.

This may give you a bit more info; http://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/how-to-choose/ac-inverter/

As for your plan B, can you not vent via some kind of corrugated metal exhaust hose?

Hope this helps


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## cafecitoingles (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks Wilse for your input. The link is really good.

What do you run from your Honda EU10i?

Maybe I could cut a whole in the side of the van for the corrugated hose for plan B.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

It seems that the Warrior generator is underpowered for the Ellisse but you can run 2 of those generators linked together for a total of 3.7Kva *continuous* power

Think of the power factor of the ellisse and the grinder running (watts = volt amps * power factor) and provided your Brasilia rr45 grinder is only about 300watts at maximum then the pair of generators in parallel should handle the combined heater load and momentary grinder start-up current (8 times rated current) as their *max* output is closer to 4.5Kva

That is the theory anyway..... You would need to present this idea together with the power requirements of your machine and grinder to the generator rep.

EDIT: from above..... +6db(A) sounds twice as loud

EDIT2: You could also consider manually switching the supply to the machine and the grinder so that only one will run at any given time. Doing this would allow you to run up to a 550 watt grinder (probably)


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

I don't run a lot from it, as I got it for my Motorhome when skiing, where needed. Occasional power tools etc.

I have run it near it's 1000w capacity and the noise level is OK.

Talking about start-up loads, anything that converts power to heat is bad news... 150w hair straighteners will not run on this Honda... even though it should.

If I get chance I'll wire up my Mazzer to it, and see how it performs.

w

PS, this is the type of exhaust piping I was talking about.

http://www.propexheatsource.co.uk/heaters/hs2000/stainless-steel-exhaust


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## cafecitoingles (Jun 13, 2013)

grumpydaddy said:


> It seems that the Warrior generator is underpowered for the Ellisse but you can run 2 of those generators linked together for a total of 3.7Kva *continuous* power
> 
> Think of the power factor of the ellisse and the grinder running (watts = volt amps * power factor) and provided your Brasilia rr45 grinder is only about 300watts at maximum then the pair of generators in parallel should handle the combined heater load and momentary grinder start-up current (8 times rated current) as their *max* output is closer to 4.5Kva
> 
> ...


Thanks grumpydaddy,

The idea of twice the db doesn't sound very appealing.

I do like the idea of switching between appliances but it's still sounding like the 1 generator won't cut it and I would have to spend around 2k.

Maybe Plan C should be to just target events where they supply electricity.


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## cafecitoingles (Jun 13, 2013)

That's really suprising/shocking what you say about the hair straighteners! I knew it was hard to convert to heat but that is crazy!

Would be great to see what it would do with your Mazzer.

The piping could still be an option with a new machine though.

Thanks


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## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

Firstly I'd like to point out I know next to nothing about all this. But, is there any reason that a 12V Modified Sinewave 3000W Inverter could not be used off the running van's electrics? Perhaps with a couple of leisure batteries and grumpydaddy's switch idea. They are £350 from maplins. Would this work?


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

I do own a Coffeetrailer, started with an Astoria Fiore lever group and a Versalab M3 and an LPG driven Honda EU20i is very low in noise and took only 5 kilo gas for the day (cheap runner) I changed to an Gaggia Orione 2 group and an K30 vario, so i needed more power what I found in an Honda EU30is that runs a whole day on 12 liter normal carfuel and is more silent than the EU20i, I also did My thinking for a Battery setup for only a grinder, You need at least 4 x 70 amp but better 6 x 70 amp. the NoNo for me was the weight issue 30 kilo for each battery and 20 kilo for the converter = 200 kilo for the grinder and LED lights.

See: http://www.facebook.com/A3koffie

small movies from both generators.

Feel free to like My page!  

PS I do preheat the Gaggia at home before I go to the occasion of the day, on the working spot I could serve in 30 min. and without preheating it takes Me 75/80 min.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

For that to have a chance of working long term I would say the inverter should be rated at 6000w continuous and the equipment might require that to be pure sine wave. such a beast would cost a bunch.

You would need a really good charging system too probably.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

For the grinder only, pure sinus is 4 times grinder powerrating enough, it's only the first pulse.

For a cooler is it an different story.


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## cafecitoingles (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi Guys,

Interesting @3ann. Do you still have to run both of your generators for the entire setup then?

Thank you all for your inputs and advice. I have spent the last couple of days mulling it all over and still cannot seem to get a clear best way to go.

Very frustrating.

After listening to Grumpydaddy I may have to consider opting for a 3kw job wish is going to be both heavy and expensive.

Or even the idea of trying to sell the setup I have so far and starting again.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Only the 3kW is enough, the other is sold to a Friend as backup at is house in France, the most easy going is a levergroup machine operating on LPG so not much electrical power needed, for your cooler choose one without an compressor, absorbtion don't have highpeak starts.

The reason I do use the Aggregaat is that my insurence didnt like the idea of LPG in an almost whole trailer made out off Polyester (high flamable risk due to open fire) allways store your LPG Canister outside the trailer!!


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