# PF collar to ensure perfectly straight tamp?



## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Has anyone designed(I'm sure someone must have) a collar that sits on the PF to -

1. Guide coffee into the PF from the grinder and

2. If designed in such a way as to have a perfectly straight long throat, with parallel sides for about an inch, in line with the sides of the PF so that a tamper with equally deep parallel sides at a close fit can be pushed down through the collar in a perfectly straight line?

Seems to me this could work nicely to ensure a good even and perfectly straight tamp every time? The only variable would then be the pressure applied.

Cheers,

steve


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

There is certainly a 'collar' (funnel) to guide the coffee into the p/f?. Both on here, via Norvin's thread in the For Sale Forums, and also Londominum offer such a thing on their website.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Hi Mildred, I am aware of these guides for but these only accomplish the first of the points mentioned.

cheers,

steve


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

you'd be better just practicing, it's a skill but you'll master it fairly easily


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Not sure a fit that close would allow the tamper to move very easily in the funnel? And if it did then it would still allow the user tamp non-level. Just my take.

On the other hand a tamper that has a disk on top that sits on top of the basket and a separate tamping disc underneath that was 58.55 wide..... well that would be amazing.

It exists - its the kafatek levtamp and I can vouch for it being quite brilliant


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Not sure a fit that close would allow the tamper to move very easily in the funnel? And if it did then it would still allow the user tamp non-level. Just my take.
> 
> On the other hand a tamper that has a disk on top that sits on top of the basket and a separate tamping disc underneath that was 58.55 wide..... well that would be amazing.
> 
> It exists - its the kafatek levtamp and I can vouch for it being quite brilliant


 i take it your happy with your new tamper then kenny


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ha ha I sound like I work for them don't I Eddie


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Ha ha I sound like I work for them don't I Eddie


mate you sound like your there, in that happy with my coffee zone


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Greenblood said:


> Hi Mildred, I am aware of these guides for but these only accomplish the first of the points mentioned.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> steve


Sorry! I didn't get round to your second point!


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Not sure a fit that close would allow the tamper to move very easily in the funnel? And if it did then it would still allow the user tamp non-level. Just my take.
> 
> On the other hand a tamper that has a disk on top that sits on top of the basket and a separate tamping disc underneath that was 58.55 wide..... well that would be amazing.
> 
> It exists - its the kafatek levtamp and I can vouch for it being quite brilliant


I like that idea but there no video other. Than the poor short on the makers site showing how it works. Can you take a video of it in action? Cheers. Steve


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Will do Steve - was due to do anyway


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Greenblood said:


> Has anyone designed(I'm sure someone must have) a collar that sits on the PF to -
> 
> 1. Guide coffee into the PF from the grinder and
> 
> ...


Yes, I could make such a thing, but not with the material I have to hand (the walls would be very thin and liable to distort). Suitably sized material would have to be ordered in.

If a few people were interested, it may be viable.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

I'd certainly like to see it made, I can knock up a sketchup 3d model of it and post it here when I get some time on the PC...


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Greenblood said:


> I'd certainly like to see it made, I can knock up a sketchup 3d model of it and post it here when I get some time on the PC...


Done a quick scetch in the mean time.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

If anyone can do it - norvin can ;-)


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Yes, got the idea.

Would a thicker base to the tamper not be easier and serve the same purpose than the double diameter?


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes that would be fine too but I was trying to avoid suction by having too deep a plug, the two diameters will help in that respect and also the top disk wouldn't need to be so tight a fit as the actual tamper at the bottom.


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

... or taper the tamper base?


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Norvin said:


> ... or taper the tamper base?


Yep


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Tapering defeats the object of the plan unless both are tapered. Tamping level is really not that problematic just get a great fitting tamper for the basket that you use. Tapered edge or sharp tampers cause very little suction, you should be careful and methodical and you should get consistent tesulys


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## Sami (Apr 18, 2013)

IMHO distribution is way more important. Before I replaced the clump crusher on my mythos there was a huge bias towards the rear of the PF. I tried to counter it by tamping it thinner on the other side but to no avail...


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Sami said:


> IMHO distribution is way more important. Before I replaced the clump crusher on my mythos there was a huge bias towards the rear of the PF. I tried to counter it by tamping it thinner on the other side but to no avail...


This is what I found too, I use a sweetcorn skewer to distribute and found this helped with my shot quality no end.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

A long a rambling post, so apologies in advance!

So, a few months down the line and after some months playing with various ways of redistribution of grinds, my mind has again come back to this idea...but with a crucial difference.

This proposed gadget ensures a perfectly flat tamp, but what's occurred to me, is that it's just as important to have a flat top to the grains in the pf -before- tamping. Not only that, but a uniform density of grinds before tamping, which can only be achieved with applying some method of equalising the density throughout the basket. The stirring method of disrupting the bed of grain works well providing all areas of the bed are stirred. I have considered and prototyped Another way of redistribution that works well but that's another story.

I have been playing around with taking the filled (by mythos) pf and simply using my finger to make sure the mound is levelled and then placing the tamper on top and simply taping the whole caboodle on the counter top a couple of times. It works really well, but the tamper doesn't always come down straight and requires a little encouragement to keep level. Curiously though, even with a non perfectly level tamped bed, the naked basket bleeds remarkably evenly, to me this seems to show in practice a bed of grain evenly compacted is just as important as a level bed. A mound of ground grain in the center of the pf, straight-tamped without any evening out of the bed and levelling beforehand results in more early seepage around the edge. This seems to me that the tamped bed is not uniformly compacted and around the edges there is lower density also, crevices will form as the uneven densities try to form a cohesive bed in response to the pressure being applied from above.

So. The tapping of the bed with the tamper sat on top appears give the grinds an opportunity to rearrange in response to the weight above them, reducing the likelihood of crevices and helping the bed form an even density.

It seems to me that this my solution for a perfectly straight tamp as proposed in this thread, used along with either a few taps on the whole ensemble on the counter top, or in conjunction with a vibrating pad of portafilter holder(which is what I'm playing with at the moment), would result in remarkably consistent shots with very little faff.

Just place the filled pf on the counter, pop the (original idea) funnel contraption on top, followed by the special tamper, tap the lot on the counter a couple of times and job done. A perfectly flat, perfectly even, perfectly compacted bed of grounds.

Anyway, that's the theory. So, I still need someone to make this for me...

Steve


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Interesting idea. I use a Coffee Catcha to make sure the grinds from my E37s (with the static flap out of the grind path) land in a nice fluffy heap in the basket. Then I use the coffee catcha like a croupier's hook to drag the high spots into the low spots without compacting the grinds (surprisingly effective). One or two taps and it's nearly flat. I then tamp as straight as I can and most of the time I avoid doughnut extractions so it seems to work. I don't use any special collar or tamper, just try to perfect my technique with my flat or convex tampers (and choose based on gut feeling - complete voodoo!)

I'm tempted to try tapping with the flat tamper in the basket just to see what happens - interesting theory.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Give it a try, see what your experience is. Try it with your normal routine but just rest tamper on top and tap very lightly the pf on the counter a couple of times. Even if you tap perfectly straight you will find the tamper always ends up not level, this is because the grinds are already uneven in density across the basket. This is because as the grinds fall, they slightly compact the grinds below, especially in the center where most fall first.

Then try stirring the basket throughly and levelling it with your hook, and then try the rest and tap method. See if the tamper comes down more level.

Let us know your experience.

cheers

steve


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## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

Her is something similar I've made, prototype at the moment, still got some kinks to work out.. But it worked.. I have actually made another since, which is smaller in height (15mm) and is tapered on the sides to reduce the top outside diameter so it fits in my grinder to use as a hopper.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?39256-DTP-Owners-Club&p=553376#post553376


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Nice to have the skills to do this stuff, I'm hoping to get mine made soon, a mate has got the missing part for his lathe so hope it's fixed soon.

steve


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## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

Greenblood said:


> Nice to have the skills to do this stuff, I'm hoping to get mine made soon, a mate has got the missing part for his lathe so hope it's fixed soon.
> 
> steve


im always interested in fiddling and upgrading things where I can, so feel free to drop me some drawings/sketch/dimensions/model and I'll give it ago at making it for you. Although it would be new year now, as closed for Christmas


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Great! Will be 8n touch in the new year!

happy holidays!

steve


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## Gaz| (Nov 29, 2017)

Greenblood said:


> Great! Will be 8n touch in the new year!
> 
> happy holidays!
> 
> steve


no problem buddy, just drop me a line and I'll see what I can do for you


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