# Goes All The Way Up To 11



## The Systemic Kid

Clip of the EK straight out of the box. You can hear the burrs chirping a bit as the dial is turned towards the finest setting. May need a bit more tweaking to optimise for espresso grind. Need a load of beans first.


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## Mrboots2u

It fits!!!!!

question is where is it plugged in ?


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## Neill

It's alive! Said followed by an evil cackle.


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## Neill

What burrs did you go for?


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> It fits!!!!!
> 
> question is where is it plugged in ?


Easy, to avoid any overload problems, I'm running it straight off the transformer at the bottom of the hill


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## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> What burrs did you go for?


Coffee burr set - bit more of a challenge to set up for espresso but the pay off is better particle size distribution.


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## c_squared

Coffee, let's see some coffee through it!


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Coffee burr set - bit more of a challenge to set up for espresso but the pay off is better particle size distribution.


And presumably better for pour over use too.


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## glevum

Poor L1 has been dwarfed!


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## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> It's alive! Said followed by an evil cackle.


The noise it makes is hysterical - torque from the massive motor makes the who thing move, albeit slightly, on start up. The instructions say it mustn't be run for more than 47 minutes continuously though. So only approx 19 kg in one go.


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## The Systemic Kid

glevum said:


> Poor L1 has been dwarfed!


Told Mrs Systemic I was going to use some sort of modded simple hopper. Her reply? Looks cool with it on


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## The Systemic Kid

c_squared said:


> Coffee, let's see some coffee through it!


Going over to Lancaster this morning to pick up a kilo of Thalia espresso blend from Atkinson's. Going to give it some hammer this afternoon.


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## c_squared

The Systemic Kid said:


> Going over to Lancaster this morning to pick up a kilo of Thalia espresso blend from Atkinson's. Going to give it some hammer this afternoon.


Sounds like a good day!!


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## aaronb

So can you run it off a 13 amp socket or did you have to have a 16a line installed?

Looking forward to your results with this and the L1.


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## Daren

I've just watched the video... I'm scared! I hope you were wearing your hard hat and protective eyewear when filming! (and make sure you keep all small animals and children out of the room when operating it - I don't want to see you on the news in a freak child mangling incident)


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## The Systemic Kid

Daren said:


> I've just watched the video... I'm scared! I hope you wearing your hard hat and protective eyewear when filming! (and keep all small animals and children out of the room when operating it - I don't want to see you on the news in a freak child mangling incident)


Came with a warning not to introduce any objects (human or otherwise) into the hopper throat whilst machine is running and a picture of what can happen if you do. Thought I'd seen that picture before - could be wrong


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## The Systemic Kid

aaronb said:


> So can you run it off a 13 amp socket or did you have to have a 16a line installed?
> 
> Looking forward to your results with this and the L1.


Runs off standard 13a socket. Going to hook it up to a a power energy plug later to check how much it's taking as it's sharing a socket with the LI.


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## Charliej

I would have to stand on a box to single dose that with the hopper on your countertops Patrick lol. It should be fine on the same spur as the L1 as they have a capacitor which helps to kick start the motor which is the moment of highest power draw and other than that it draws nothing when not in use. Each socket on a double one is capable of a 13A draw on its own anyway.


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## MarkyP

It really does sound like a beast as well as look like one!


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## The Systemic Kid

MarkyP said:


> It really does sound like a beast as well as look like one!


Just fired up the EK connected to a power plug. Surges to 7.1 amp momentarily before settling down to just over 2 amp consumption. With the LI consuming 12.3amp when the boiler element is on, I think I have the capacity to ruin the home electrics using the same plug to run both machines. Memo to self, switch off LI to make sure the heating element doesn't kick in when using the EK.


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## Charliej

Patrick are they on separate sockets in one the double wall sockets? if so your fine they can drag 13 amps each with no problems.


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## The Systemic Kid

Charliej said:


> Patrick are they on separate sockets in one the double wall sockets? if so your fine they can drag 13 amps each with no problems.


Thanks for that Charlie but it's a single socket. No problem though, timed 20grms through at the EK's finest setting - took 3.5sec. I may replace the single socket with a double but it's no hassle flicking LI's boiler switch off for a moment while I grind.


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## The Systemic Kid

Just made first pair of flat whites. Set the grind to near finest setting. 19grms in 38grms out in 36secs. Dosed into portafilter using a kilner jam funnel - no grinds stirring - no attempt to even the grounds apart from a couple of taps to make sure there were no caves. Nutated tamp with around 10-15lbs pressure. Infused for 15secs. To my surprise, extraction through naked PF was really even. Repeated with the second extraction and, again, pour through shower screen was textbook. Dosing at that level with Thalia previously has resulted in flat whites veering towards bitterness. Not so today, really big powerful mouthfeel and body with long, long after taste - malty, caramel - some bitterness but also sweetness too. Bodes well.


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## garydyke1

Keeping a keen eye on this thread


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## urbanbumpkin

Hope your wearing steel toe caps. It's a monster!

Can you post a wide shot of your set up so that I can convince Mrs B that mr SJ is not ridiculously oversized.


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Keeping a keen eye on this thread


Looking like bad news Gary - think you're going to need a mortgage holiday. I'll post a clip later showing the appalling dose 'n' distribute technique later and the resultant extraction through the naked PF. Want to see if my first two extractions were a fluke.


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## garydyke1

Presumably, as the burrs are not seasoned, to maintain your 19grms in 38grms out in 36secs going forward you might see a change in grind setting.

Have you tried a shot with the grind at absolute zero? Im interested to know as a Pacamara varietal would require a very very fine grind and the grinder might limit you slightly?


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Presumably, as the burrs are not seasoned, to maintain your 19grms in 38grms out in 36secs going forward you might see a change in grind setting.
> 
> Have you tried a shot with the grind at absolute zero? Im interested to know as a Pacamara varietal would require a very very fine grind and the grinder might limit you slightly?


Got a bag of Square Mile Kochere that needed really fine grind on the HG One and gave all sorts of extraction problems. Will be trying that out tomorrow to see how it fare through the EK at its finest setting. Will also be running some shots through the refractometer to see what extraction percentages the EK is hitting.


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Got a bag of Square Mile Kochere that needed really fine grind on the HG One and gave all sorts of extraction problems. Will be trying that out tomorrow to see how it fare through the EK at its finest setting. Will also be running some shots through the refractometer to see what extraction percentages the EK is hitting.


The kochere went finer on my grinder than the pacamara normally would. I really enjoyed the kochere espresso. Interested in hearing how it is through the ek.


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## The Systemic Kid

Neill said:


> The kochere went finer on my grinder than the pacamara normally would. I really enjoyed the kochere espresso. Interested in hearing how it is through the ek.


Really helpful Neil. Had all sorts of extraction hassles going way fine with the Kochere. Came out a bit too much citrussy for me so putting it through the EK will be an interesting challenge.


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## Neill

The Systemic Kid said:


> Really helpful Neil. Had all sorts of extraction hassles going way fine with the Kochere. Came out a bit too much citrussy for me so putting it through the EK will be an interesting challenge.


I'll admit I wasn't the most consistent with it. I was pulling 40s+s extractions with it. 18>32g. I quite liked the citrus side of it. This was 50% of the sweetshop blend I struggled with.


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## The Systemic Kid

Here's a picture using a 1:1 macro lens showing the EK grind at finest and coarsest settings.

View attachment 5682


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## JKK

The Systemic Kid said:


> Really helpful Neil. Had all sorts of extraction hassles going way fine with the Kochere. Came out a bit too much citrussy for me so putting it through the EK will be an interesting challenge.


Hello

congrats on the grinder.

Bulldog Edition in London were serving Kochere Espresso from their EK last week,

and it tasted absolutely amazing.

So it should be fine


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## The Systemic Kid

JKK said:


> Hello congrats on the grinder. Bulldog Edition in London were serving Kochere Espresso from their EK last week, and it tasted absolutely amazing. So it should be fine


Was having all sorts of extraction problems going fine so stopped using it. Just put two 19grm in 38grm out using the Kochere. My dosing, basket distribution was deliberately appalling and still the extractions were tons better than previous attempts. Acidity was much more balanced - massive mouthfeel - masses of aroma. Going to do some serious tests tomorrow. Will post a clip tomorrow.

Got a feeling the EK is going to tear up the rule book.


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## aaronb

/Jealous

...more characters needed...


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## Dylan

The Systemic Kid said:


> Here's a picture using a 1:1 macro lens showing the EK grind at finest and coarsest settings.
> 
> View attachment 5682


That looks like chunks of toffee next to some brown sugar...


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## The Systemic Kid

Set the EK to its coarsest setting for a morning Chemex brew. Was aiming for 19% extraction - got 18.3% - not bad for a first attempt considering Chemex can be challenging to dial in and the burrs, well, let's say they need a bit more running in. Coffee used was HasBean Bolivian Loyaza. Needs a bit more tweaking but the blueberry notes shone through.


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## The Systemic Kid

OK, after setting the EK to its coarsest setting to make some Chemex, just made two flat whites using Atkinson's Thalia blend which I haven't really enjoyed to date - OK but not outstanding. 20grms in and 40grms out with a 15sec preinfusion. Taste was a revelation - loads of front end maltiness with a lovely blackcurrant fruit finish with no acidity whatsoever. Never had that from Thalia before. Being able to move from coarsest setting to near finest with no purging or waste - wow.

Also noticed that extractions are very even through the naked PF despite outrageously sloppy technique. Will try and upload a clip to show this later on.


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## The Systemic Kid

D_Evans said:


> That looks like chunks of toffee next to some brown sugar...


Does, doesn't it - come to think of it, reminds me of my mum's home made treacle toffee.


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## MarkyP

It sounds like the ek43 makes making coffee so much easier?

It also sounds as though the coffee being produced is fantastic... What happens if you tighten your prep up or doesn't it make any difference?


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## The Systemic Kid

MarkyP said:


> It sounds like the ek43 makes making coffee so much easier?
> 
> It also sounds as though the coffee being produced is fantastic... What happens if you tighten your prep up or doesn't it make any difference?


Been really sloppy with prep and still getting superb shots. Will upload a clip showing this. Going to put some shots through the refractometer to see what extraction % I'm getting.


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## garydyke1

Ive played on one today........ wow!!!!


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Ive played on one today........ wow!!!!


Mortgage holiday, mortgage holiday


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## lookseehear

garydyke1 said:


> Ive played on one today........ wow!!!!


Where did you go to have a look?


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## garydyke1

Now that would be telling. However 18g in a 22g basket , in a Verona, tamped as hard as possible (no nutating rubbish) and about 32g out in 35 seconds. Nectar from the gods.....

Oh and the Dumerso thru the L1 was INSANE


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## Xpenno

Great reading SK, looking forward to hearing how you get on! After brief play on one today it's clear that this thing is a true beast! Even the 18g in 30g out in 15 seconds didn't taste too bad... It will be hard to go back to the royal after today.

Anyone want to do a good deal on a pair of them?


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## The Systemic Kid

Morning's effort was Chemex with HasBean Bolivian Loayza Feliciano. Cut back the dose - yesterday's effort came in too strong so went from 33.5grm to 31grms - 500ml in. Set the EK to coarsest. Brewed 380ml out in 4min 30secs. Tasted sweet and complex - strawberry/blueberry sweetness - sherry notes on the nose, yes - really. Wonderful heady sweet aroma. All the constituent parts evident in an open clean manner and able to be picked out. Didn't measure extraction as I'm off out early but I reckon it was bang on.


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## garydyke1

http://sprudge.com/bulldog-edition-london-ace-hotel.html

''In the wake of this year's World Barista Championships in Melbourne, coffee bars worldwide have begun experimenting with the Mahlkonig EK-43, the use of which is fast becoming an essential addition to the bar for cafes positioning themselves as a high-end alternative. It was with no surprise then, when upon our visit to Bulldog Edition, we observed an EK-43 being used to grind for both espresso and 'filter shots.' Serious coffee enthusiasts may notice that this "EK" at Bulldog Edition has undergone a few modifications. More efficient preparation is enabled by both a smaller hopper, half the size of the standard issue and the dosing chute has been replaced by a mechanism for dosing straight into the portafilter basket. The friendly manager, James Andrews, informed us that the customized grinder is the innovation of Square Mile's John Gordon (UKBC 2011, 2013) and that further modifications to improve functionality will be tested on site in the coming months.''


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## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> http://sprudge.com/bulldog-edition-london-ace-hotel.html
> 
> ''In the wake of this year's World Barista Championships in Melbourne, coffee bars worldwide have begun experimenting with the Mahlkonig EK-43, the use of which is fast becoming an essential addition to the bar for cafes positioning themselves as a high-end alternative. It was with no surprise then, when upon our visit to Bulldog Edition, we observed an EK-43 being used to grind for both espresso and 'filter shots.' Serious coffee enthusiasts may notice that this "EK" at Bulldog Edition has undergone a few modifications. More efficient preparation is enabled by both a smaller hopper, half the size of the standard issue and the dosing chute has been replaced by a mechanism for dosing straight into the portafilter basket. The friendly manager, James Andrews, informed us that the customized grinder is the innovation of Square Mile's John Gordon (UKBC 2011, 2013) and that further modifications to improve functionality will be tested on site in the coming months.''


Wonder what they'd charge to pimp one up for home use


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## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Wonder what they'd charge to pimp one up for home use


Well, we'll soon find out. Have emailed SM.


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## garydyke1

Overall thoughts so far?

Best money you've spent on coffee gear?!


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Overall thoughts so far?
> 
> Best money you've spent on coffee gear?!


Cautiously optimistic. But there is a need for a lot of field evaluation so we don't get swept away with EK hysteria.


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## drude

The Systemic Kid said:


> Cautiously optimistic. But there is a need for a lot of field evaluation so we don't get swept away with EK hysteria.


It's very noble of you to carry out some of this important research for us


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## JKK

jeebsy said:


> Wonder what they'd charge to pimp one up for home use


Hello

I visit Bulldog at least once a week, and as far as I can ttell the only

mod they have done is the small hopper.

They grind into a metal lined cocktail shaker ( looks tacky ) which they clip

onto the bag holder of the shute.

They do quite a bit of whacky and hitting the body to get out the remaining grind.

The grind is poured into a jam funnel over the porta filter.

Out of about 6 visits recently, I've only had one bad drink from it ( tasted over extracted and "Italian" )

Most of the time it tastes amazing.

JKK


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## The Systemic Kid

drude said:


> It's very noble of you to carry out some of this important research for us


Thanks for that drude - it's really hard being so selfless at times but someone has to do it


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## The Systemic Kid

After a couple of kilos through - not surprisingly, things beginning to settle down but burrs are way off being fully seasoned. Doing some tests this morning on a range of beans from darkish to light roasts.

Here's a clip of burrs being zeroed. Before zeroing, extractions were starting to come through too fast (all other variables constant). Post zeroing went up beyond 30secs for 1:2 ratio.


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## Mrboots2u

You be carful now those are £400 burrs.......


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## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> After a couple of kilos through - not surprisingly, things beginning to settle down but burrs are way off being fully seasoned. Doing some tests this morning on a range of beans from darkish to light roasts.
> 
> Here's a clip of burrs being zeroed. Before zeroing, extractions were starting to come through too fast (all other variables constant). Post zeroing went up beyond 30secs for 1:2 ratio.


So the act of seasoning means the grind need to ends up going finer and finer?

Think you'll be on the edge for espresso? Perhaps this is why Perger needed to nutate?


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## MWJB

I don't think I'd be able resist the urge to shout "Contact!" when powering on!


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> It fits!!!!!
> 
> question is where is it plugged in ?


Actually Boots, EK currently (ha, ha) powered from another socket via an extension. Got this to upgrade the single to double socket.

View attachment 5765


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## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> I don't think I'd be able resist the urge to shout "Contact!" when powering on!


Does feel a bit like that Mark.


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## The Systemic Kid

Running some tests this morning.

Test 1: 20grm of Thalia at 1:2 in flat white. Didn't bother about extraction time. Outstanding - malty front with sweet blackcurrant finish. Long after taste. Had to revise my impressions of Thalia blend.

Test 2: Square Mile Ethiopian Kochere. Previously found this difficult to dial in - requiring a very fine grind and causing all sorts of extraction hassles. On top of that didn't like it - too acidic and thin. Used a 17grm LM Strada basket at 16grm, 17, grm and 18grm aiming for 1:1.5 extraction ratio. 18grm came out the best - acidity really well controlled - strawberry sweet taste - silky mouthfeel. No extraction problems visible through naked PF.

Changed baskets and tried 20grms in an IMS - backed off the grind one step. Result was less pleasing than the 18grm dose - bit more acidity - not unpleasant - almond like aroma not present on the 18grm dose.

Here's a pic of the 20grm dose - lots of tiger striping.

View attachment 5766


Need a break now - too much caffeine!


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## jeebsy

How close to 0 were you for those extractions?


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## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> How close to 0 were you for those extractions?


For the Square Mile Kochere, one step off finest for 16grm, 17grm and 18grm doses. Two steps off for the 20grm dose.


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## garydyke1

Im guessing its hard to choke a machine with Kochere even with a conventional espresso grinder, right?


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## The Systemic Kid

Began the EK tests with the Kochere because it demanded a very fine grind on the HG One whilst also presenting a challengingly acidic profile. The EK was able to mute the acidity considerably.


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## garydyke1

A video of shot prep and pour would be amazing : ) (pretty plz)


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> A video of shot prep and pour would be amazing : ) (pretty plz)


Aw shucks, go on then - will put it together this afternoon. Mind you, my head is spinning. Gone from the light SM Ethiopian to Coffee Compass's jet black offering of Malabar. Beans are oily - be interesting to see what the EK makes of this.


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## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Aw shucks, go on then - will put it together this afternoon. Mind you, my head is spinning. Gone from the light SM Ethiopian to Coffee Compass's jet black offering of Malabar. Beans are oily - be interesting to see what the EK makes of this.


I wanna see the light roast get owned by the EK.


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## ronsil

What was the resulting espresso like using the Malabar Hit through the EK43?


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Overall thoughts so far?
> 
> Best money you've spent on coffee gear?!


Trying to stay objective - ask me that in six months. Having said that, I'm still smiling.


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## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> What was the resulting espresso like using the Malabar Hit through the EK43?


Not to my tastes Ron - far too dark for me. Ran it first through the HG One first - 16 grm dose. Ground so easily I could have used one finger to turn the crank! Resultant espresso was oh so dark - huge silky mouthfeel but too strong. Same dose through the EK - so strong it blew my head off. Only had the tiniest of sips and 20 mins later, I can still taste it.


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## garydyke1

You defining 'strong' as bitterness , body-TDS , or both?


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## ronsil

Please put that feedback on the MM Hit thread. Coffee Compass would like to hear your thoughts.


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## jeebsy

Did square mile ever email you back about the mods?


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## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Did square mile ever email you back about the mods?


Didn't jeesby so I will try again - God loves a trier.


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> You defining 'strong' as bitterness , body-TDS , or both?


Roasted way too much for my liking - beans as oily as hell.


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## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Roasted way too much for my liking - beans as oily as hell.


I don't think whatever grinder you would would have used , you would have liked that bean . Not your roast profile Patrick


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> A video of shot prep and pour would be amazing : ) (pretty plz)


Here you go Gary


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## Mrboots2u

tasty?........


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> I don't think whatever grinder you would would have used , you would have liked that bean . Not your roast profile Patrick


That's putting it mildly


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## Xpenno

Love the vids Patrick. Sounds like you're getting on well with the beast. It seems like the coffee vs Turkish burr debate is still valid if you are getting that close to zero for espresso. Just out of interest, on the dial, what have you found the max value for espresso to be so far?


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## The Systemic Kid

Be good to hear some feedback on the Turkish burrs - only a matter of time. Max value for espresso so far...? not sure what you mean, Spence. So far, gone one click off finest setting for Ethiopian Kochere and the EK was fine with that - other beans and doses have seen me backing off two or three clicks off finest. Will be interesting to see what settings will be when burrs have settled down an are fully bedded in. If it's just a case of an occasional re-adjustment via zeroing - can live with that. What really surprises me is the liberties you can take when dosing, settling and tamping the dose and still the extraction comes out fine. That shouldn't be happening.


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## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Be good to hear some feedback on the Turkish burrs - only a matter of time. Max value for espresso so far...? not sure what you mean, Spence. So far, gone one click off finest setting for Ethiopian Kochere and the EK was fine with that - other beans and doses have seen me backing off two or three clicks off finest. Will be interesting to see what settings will be when burrs have settled down an are fully bedded in. If it's just a case of an occasional re-adjustment via zeroing - can live with that. What really surprises me is the liberties you can take when dosing, settling and tamping the dose and still the extraction comes out fine. That shouldn't be happening.


Stick it in the boot of your car and bring it round Tuesday .............

In the name of science i beg you!!!!!!!!

Ill help you carry it to the door!!!!


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## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Max value for espresso so far...? not sure what you mean, Spence. So far, gone one click off finest setting for Ethiopian Kochere and the EK was fine with that - other beans and doses have seen me backing off two or three clicks off finest.


Sorry, it was a poorly worded question looking at it! Your answer is what I was after though. I meant what range on the dial are you using for espresso.

Do you feel that the adjustment has been fine enough for dialling in espresso shots? My impression was that it's less of an issue as you don't have to be as accurate as with many grinders.


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## GS11

SK re: nutation video

What tamper base do you use with your torr?.

Cheers


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## The Systemic Kid

GS11 said:


> What tamper base do you use with your torr?.
> 
> Cheers


It's a Goldfinger convex, Graham - very nicely weighted.


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## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Do you feel that the adjustment has been fine enough for dialling in espresso shots? My impression was that it's less of an issue as you don't have to be as accurate as with many grinders.


Definitely fine enough for espresso so far, Spence. Guess there's a psychological thing about being at or near the limit and not having a comfort zone in reserve. Only time will tell if this will present a problem. Got stress, again!, the burrs are way off being seasoned. I'm not an expert on grinders but the EK seems to be in a category of its own.


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## Mrboots2u

Hes not bringing it round tuesday is he. ....


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Hes not bringing it round tuesday is he. ....


Not sure your house electrics could take the load Boots


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## garydyke1

Thanks for the video. I would love to have run that coffee through my Royals doser , can only imagine how wonderful the resulting pour would have been ; )


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## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Not sure your house electrics could take the load Boots


Ive got a plug with your name on it

Its the fridge plug but hey , theres only food in there


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## garydyke1

Im still thinking turkish aka setting between 2 & 3 and no stress about ever getting anywhere close to zero.


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## garydyke1

For anyone confused around references to 'prebreakers'

Here is a good picture of differing types of prebreakers. ie EK43T will have a 'Turkish prebreaker' ; the EK43 will have a 'Coffee Prebreaker'

http://www.mahlkoenig.com/events/news/73/?setLanguage=us_US


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Im still thinking turkish aka setting between 2 & 3 and no stress about ever getting anywhere close to zero.


Where does that leave brew though


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Where does that leave brew though


Way better than a hand grinder or a Maestro Plus


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## garydyke1

I recon if you set the coffee EK to 9.5 - take a picture of the grind. This will be equal to a EK43T at setting 11


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## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Love the vids Patrick. Sounds like you're getting on well with the beast. It seems like the coffee vs Turkish burr debate is still valid if you are getting that close to zero for espresso. Just out of interest, on the dial, what have you found the max value for espresso to be so far?


I find on the Sage that if you turn preinfusion off completely the grind has to be a lot more coarse, the flow rate starts v slow and speeds up as the shot progresses. Extended preinfusion , say 10-15 seconds, means a much quicker initial flow which then actually remains constant , or even slows down a tad. I guess this is all down to fine migration. Be interesting to see the impact of using an EK43 at both extremes, might find that a pump machine which punches straight in at 9BAR wouldnt be quite as close to the zero point as the L1 (I seem to remember we almost choked your machine a little way off zero with Daves EK) . The resulting extraction yield(s) would also be interesting reading. Must borrow Glenns VST Refrac at some point!!!!


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## jeebsy

View attachment 5769


Was in Alchemy Coffee today (work moved us from Cockfosters back to central London.....so happy). They've got an EK with coffee burrs. The barista said it's fantastic for brewed. They used to have a Ditting which they thought was good but once they started with the EK there was no going back. He said the coffee burrs aren't suitable for espresso though as even at the finest setting a lot of beans would gush.

Got to say it looks really good without the hopper. A proper beast. Some people go travelling for their 30th....i'm getting an EK.


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## kikapu

Looks a different beast without thr hopper much more kitchen friendly! !

Cant remwmber what i got for my 30th certainly not an ek!! What burrs you going to get then turkish? ?


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## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 5769
> 
> 
> They've got an EK with coffee burrs. The barista said it's fantastic for brewed. They used to have a Ditting which they thought was good but once they started with the EK there was no going back. He said the coffee burrs aren't suitable for espresso though as even at the finest setting a lot of beans would gush.


Guys at Northern Tea Power said the same thing, jeesby but I'm not sure. Not had any problems with not being able to go fine enough so far - but I am nutating which may be the key. I've gone down to 16grms and still been OK - baskets may have an important role too. Keeping to or very near recommended dose for basket size so when I up or downdose, I change baskets. Need to try more beans but the Square Mile Ethiopian Kochere needed a really fine grind on the HG One and the EK coffee burrs were OK at 16, 17, 18 and 20grm doses - but I did use three baskets in that test - LM Strada for first two, VST for 18grm and IMS for 20grm.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Hopper on the EK does feel like it needs a step ladder to access. Tried a few camera lens hoods I've got lying around but none fitted perfectly.

Kilner jam funnel does the job perfectly - has the same diameter throat and costs around a fiver - result!

Before

View attachment 5770


After

View attachment 5771
View attachment 5772


Before the highly observant amongst you notice - yes, that is me doing a passable imitation of ghostface


----------



## DavidBondy

Slightly OT I know, but are those wooden handles standard on the L1? I thought that the wood was a lot darker! Love the EK monster! I'd have to make it floor-standing with the standard hopper!! DB


----------



## Mrboots2u

That looks a manageable size patrick

Easily fit in a car......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

DavidBondy said:


> Slightly OT I know, but are those wooden handles standard on the L1?


Handles were custom made by a gifted woodturner DFK41 knows in Newcastle. My LI is pre-Wenga standard fit. Duncan made a set for the LI including two portafilter handles in English oak for around £80.00 which was a bargain. They are so much nicer to look at and use than the horrible plastic ones. Anyone who fancies some pukka wood might want to consider getting in touch with Duncan.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> That looks a manageable size patrick
> 
> Easily fit in a car......


Doesn't reduce the hernia inducing weight though


----------



## Mrboots2u

...

.. .....


----------



## DavidBondy

Excellent! If (when!?) I buy my L1 then I may contact him to see about African Blackwood (Grenadilla). They do look very classy!!


----------



## 4085

David, Duncan will only work with European wood that is sourced and certified as being ethically harvested......none of your endangered species stuff! Our handles are oak, which is then aged by applying ammonia to pick out the grain! You do get a lot of variation. If Patrick posts his handles you will see


----------



## The Systemic Kid

First coffee of the day - Atkinson's Thalia blend in flat white. Grinder set to finest setting - nutated tamp with limited pressure - pulled 32grm out from 20grm dose in 27sec dead with lots of tiger striping. Stunning depth of taste - malty first taste giving way to sweet blackcurrant with a long lingering aftertaste. Currently, my favourite drink.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> First coffee of the day - Atkinson's Thalia blend in flat white. Grinder set to finest setting - nutated tamp with limited pressure - pulled 32grm out from 20grm dose in 27sec dead with lots of tiger striping. Stunning depth of taste - malty first taste giving way to sweet blackcurrant with a long lingering aftertaste. Currently, my favourite drink.


want me to pick some up today , for you to have on Tuesday ?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

The Systemic Kid said:


> Actually Boots, EK currently (ha, ha) powered from another socket via an extension. Got this to upgrade the single to double socket.
> 
> View attachment 5765


Fitted this one gang to two gang converter socket. Great solution if you don't want to faff around fitting a new recess box and cover plate. That's my DIY month's time allocation used up so if Mrs Systemic needs something else doing, it will have to wait till next month.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> want me to pick some up today , for you to have on Tuesday ?


Please, can you get me 250grm for Tuesday, Boots. Thanks.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Please, can you get me 250grm for Tuesday, Boots. Thanks.


Yep I'll try and get it out the hopper at the cafe pre rested









I'll buy it for you if you bring the ek..........


----------



## dsc

Looking at those photos, the whole throat mechanism looks almost exactly like the Guat I have, the motor running noise is also similar. I do agree it has a lot of omph and wants to move around the counter

Have you tried checking how much coffee is retained (feeding mechanism isn't so great for tiny beans)? also how's the static?

Regards,

T.


----------



## DavidBondy

dfk41 said:


> David, Duncan will only work with European wood that is sourced and certified as being ethically harvested......none of your endangered species stuff!


Thanks David.

Grenadilla must be ethically produced and totally sustainable. It is what all clarinets and oboes are made from - also the Torr Grenadil handle.

I'll find out when the need arises. Your oak really looks good I must say!!

DB


----------



## Daren

Mrboots2u said:


> I'll buy it for you if you bring the ek..........


10 out of 10 for perseverance Bootsy.... keep wearing him down until he says yes. I've got my balaclava as you requested for when he arrives - are you sure you want me to take out his kneecaps if he doesn't leave it when he goes - seams a bit harsh?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Looking at those photos, the whole throat mechanism looks almost exactly like the Guat I have, the motor running noise is also similar. I do agree it has a lot of omph and wants to move around the counter Have you tried checking how much coffee is retained (feeding mechanism isn't so great for tiny beans)? also how's the static? Regards, T.


Retention is pretty insignificant. Will run some tests this after and post results. Static isn't too bad either - dependent on degree of roast. The Coffee Compass, jet black mahogany blend from DSOL caused static on my HG even using the water dripper technique. Thwacking the bag lever on the EK seems to deal with most of the static retention.


----------



## dsc

Has it got the built-n rattling mechanism on the chute? The Guat has the chute mounted on springs, with the shaft knocking it on ever turn.

Regards,

T.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Daren said:


> 10 out of 10 for perseverance Bootsy.... keep wearing him down until he says yes. I've got my balaclava as you requested for when he arrives - are you sure you want me to take out his kneecaps if he doesn't leave it when he goes - seams a bit harsh?


Lol

hes just ignoring me know.

Like I'm some kind of pestering child - He has run out of different ways to say no to me ....and has just stopped

I can imagine him rolling his eyes at every new post that's suggests he bring it round ....

I'm gonna hold my breath Til he says yes.....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> I'm gonna hold my breath Til he says yes.....


That why your face has gone purple and mottled, boots??


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Some retention tests. Used DSOL's Dusty Ape as a test, Ran six or seven 16grm and 17grm doses. Measured input and output. Worst was 0.3grm under. Rest with exception of one were within 0.2grm retention. One came out 0.2grm over.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Dusty Ape is a bit strong for my liking but didn't cause any major static problems. Ran it through a 17grm LM Strada basket with a 16grm dose on EK's finest setting. Extraction came in around 17secs. Upped the dose to 17grm - extraction came in at around 20secs. Finally, ran 17grms through the IMS basket (smaller of the two - 16-20grm stated capacity?). It ran for 25secs. All pulls had a six second pre-infusion and volume output was around 30ml. Taste from the IMS seemed different, so I pulled back to back shots using the LM Strada and IMS using 17grms. Asked Mrs Systemic to blind taste them and she found the IMS pull noticeably sweeter than the other which I reckon is due to higher extraction levels. The EK incidentally was at its finest setting.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

When my caffeine levels have dropped, going to try some HasBean offerings and see how lighter roasts fare through the EK.


----------



## dsc

The Systemic Kid said:


> Some retention tests. Used DSOL's Dusty Ape as a test, Ran six or seven 16grm and 17grm doses. Measured input and output. Worst was 0.3grm under. Rest with exception of one were within 0.2grm retention. One came out 0.2grm over.


The issue with the auger feeding mechanism is that sometimes you get more out than you put in, it simply might catch some of the older beans left over in the throat. I'm not sure why Mahl hasn't made the auger more aggressive.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Your could say, Tom, it augurs well......groan


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Has it got the built-n rattling mechanism on the chute? The Guat has the chute mounted on springs, with the shaft knocking it on ever turn. Regards, T.


The plastic chute's plate is attached to the grinder body with four screws with springs over them to give shock absorption. Between the plate and the grinder body there's a gasket. Doesn't rattle at all.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> That why your face has gone purple and mottled, boots??


Can't speak, holding breath....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Are you in BUPA??


----------



## dsc

The Systemic Kid said:


> The plastic chute's plate is attached to the grinder body with four screws with springs over them to give shock absorption. Between the plate and the grinder body there's a gasket. Doesn't rattle at all.


Are you sure it doesn't vibrate? that's a standard way of doing bag exit chutes on the Mahls. Just place your hand on the chute when the motor is on, you will feel whether it vibrates or not.

Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Dusty Ape is a bit strong for my liking but didn't cause any major static problems. Ran it through a 17grm LM Strada basket with a 16grm dose on EK's finest setting. Extraction came in around 17secs. Upped the dose to 17grm - extraction came in at around 20secs. Finally, ran 17grms through the IMS basket (smaller of the two - 16-20grm stated capacity?). It ran for 25secs. All pulls had a six second pre-infusion and volume output was around 30ml. Taste from the IMS seemed different, so I pulled back to back shots using the LM Strada and IMS using 17grms. Asked Mrs Systemic to blind taste them and she found the IMS pull noticeably sweeter than the other which I reckon is due to higher extraction levels. The EK incidentally was at its finest setting.


Can i ask why you chose 6 seconds preinfusion?

just for a laugh try zero seconds..... lets see if the machine can be choked


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Can i ask why you chose 6 seconds preinfusion?


Works, by and large, with the doses I usually use - early recommendation for L1 was to wait until first drop appears - however long. Got bored with that.

Will give 'zero seconds' a go just to see but I would be surprised if the extraction is as good.


----------



## garydyke1

I only ask as zero preinfusion would almost choke the Sage , if dialled in for 30 seconds @ 6 seconds preinfusion 3BAR


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 5769
> 
> 
> Was in Alchemy Coffee today (work moved us from Cockfosters back to central London.....so happy). They've got an EK with coffee burrs. The barista said it's fantastic for brewed. They used to have a Ditting which they thought was good but once they started with the EK there was no going back. He said the coffee burrs aren't suitable for espresso though as even at the finest setting a lot of beans would gush.


Sounds like they need to zero the burrs? The coffee burrs on the one we played with didn't go near zero without a brief attack with an allen key and a screwdriver.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Dug out my Reg Barber oversize flat tamp to give it a go after watching Matt Perger's WBC routine - again! Tried it with some Square Mile's Ethiopian Kochere which, IMO, is a pretty stern test for any grinder to get beyond the blast of acidity I've been used to.

17grms in the IMS 16-20grm basket ground at the EK's finest setting - looked like dust and, once tamped, sat so far down the basket, it looked ridiculous. Gave it six seconds pre-infusion and let the lever go. Must have been another four or five seconds before the first drip appeared. Got 35grms out in around 26secs. The taste was out of this world - best I've had from the Kochere - huge blast of strawberry with balanced acidity giving way to wonderful sweetness - never been able to achieve that before.

Here's a pic - with the tell tale tiger striping.

View attachment 5777


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Are you sure it doesn't vibrate? that's a standard way of doing bag exit chutes on the Mahls. Just place your hand on the chute when the motor is on, you will feel whether it vibrates or not. Regards, T.


Checked it this evening Tom, doesn't vibrate - well, not as far as I could call vibrating and let's not go there.


----------



## AndyS

The Systemic Kid said:


> Dug out my Reg Barber oversize flat tamp to give it a go after watching Matt Perger's WBC routine - again! Tried it with some Square Mile's Ethiopian Kochere which, IMO, is a pretty stern test for any grinder to get beyond the blast of acidity I've been used to.
> 
> 17grms in the IMS 16-20grm basket ground at the EK's finest setting - looked like dust and, once tamped, sat so far down the basket, it looked ridiculous. Gave it six seconds pre-infusion and let the lever go. Must have been another four or five seconds before the first drip appeared. Got 35grms out in around 26secs. The taste was out of this world - best I've had from the Kochere - huge blast of strawberry with balanced acidity giving way to wonderful sweetness - never been able to achieve that before.


I'm a little bit surprised over the unending orgy of praise for the EK43. I mean, I love using mine; despite the longer time one spends in prepping the shot, the EK43's ultra-low grounds retention and almost instant grinding ability are super convenient.

But it makes a very different kind of espresso than say, a Robur. The Robur's output is heavy and rich, while the EK's tends to be lighter and clear. At least with my abilities as a barista, the EK shots are not always better.

In the rush of EK mania that seems to be overwhelming the members of this forum, I wonder how many people are going to be less than thrilled with their new investment.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Dunno Andy but there's only one way to find out and that's try one ....

Presume that's why you have one on your bench l...


----------



## AndyS

Mrboots2u said:


> Dunno Andy but there's only one way to find out and that's try one ....


Agree 100%, Boots. If I had to choose one or the other, it would be the EK (at least that's my current thinking).

All I'm saying is, the EK isn't the be all, end all, perfect grinder. IMHO.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

AndyS said:


> I'm a little bit surprised over the unending orgy of praise for the EK43. I mean, I love using mine; despite the longer time one spends in prepping the shot, the EK43's ultra-low grounds retention and almost instant grinding ability are super convenient.


No question the EK has caused a stir - justified? Only time will tell. Got a feeling you're not going to get your head blown off with every shot or bean varietal but there is no question the EK can achieve extractions other grinders cannot. The EK can extract higher percentages than other grinders opening up all sorts of intriguing possibilities. Does it do this effortlessly? No, but, no pain - no gain.


----------



## Mrboots2u

AndyS said:


> Agree 100%, Boots. If I had to choose one or the other, it would be the EK (at least that's my current thinking).
> 
> All I'm saying is, the EK isn't the be all, end all, perfect grinder. IMHO.


Lol I never thought it was but the opportunity to open up different tastes ( these tastes might not be for everyone given) is very exciting .

I'd love to hear More your thoughts around your experience with it.


----------



## Mrboots2u

If people try them and don't like them , then they will get some thing else ....part of the wonderful ness of this forum is the array of stuff people have and experience.

Anyway what burrs you using Andy?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

The Systemic Kid said:


> Hopper on the EK does feel like it needs a step ladder to access. Tried a few camera lens hoods I've got lying around but none fitted perfectly.
> 
> Kilner jam funnel does the job perfectly - has the same diameter throat and costs around a fiver - result!
> 
> Before
> 
> View attachment 5770
> 
> 
> After
> 
> View attachment 5771
> View attachment 5772
> 
> 
> Before the highly observant amongst you notice - yes, that is me doing a passable imitation of ghostface


Could be a 70's album cover.....or an album name "Ghostface"


----------



## ronsil

Mrboots2u said:


> Anyway what burrs you using Andy?


+1 on that & what's your percentages espresso & brewed (all types) please?.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> +1 on that & what's your percentages espresso & brewed (all types) please?.


+ 2 - what dose weights are you using? what burr set? What's your technique/routine? Are you measuring shots with your refractometer?


----------



## Daren

The Systemic Kid said:


> + 2 - what dose weights are you using? what burr set? What's your technique/routine? Are you measuring shots with your refractometer?


Excuse my complete ignorance - but dose weights? Is this a weight you place in the throat when grinding? Are they standard with the EK?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Daren said:


> Excuse my complete ignorance - but dose weights? Is this a weight you place in the throat when grinding? Are they standard with the EK?


Should have been more clear - referring to amount of coffee used per shot. Been experimenting with dose weights - 16-20grms. With roasts such as Londinium, have usually stuck around 16grms with the HG One - higher didn't seem add much in way of taste, IMO. As the EK seems to behave differently to other grinders - lots of scope for playing around with dose weights. For example, best shots I've had with the Kochere have been around 17-18grms but that could be down to lots of things.


----------



## Daren

D'oh (it's too early on a Sunday for me to be thinking properly. I'll come back when I'm properly awake) - I feel a bit stupid now


----------



## AndyS

The Systemic Kid said:


> what dose weights are you using? what burr set? What's your technique/routine? Are you measuring shots with your refractometer?


Dosing 18-20g, using coffee burrs usually at their finest setting, VST filters, 58.4mm flat tamper; technique is very close to what Colin detailed on his blog. I don't find Matt's nutating tamp to make much of a difference, but YMMV.

"Typical" EK shot might be:

20g dry, 45g wet, 44% Espresso Brew Ratio, 10.2% TDS, 23% Extraction Yield.

"Typical" Robur shot might be:

20g dry, 32g wet, 62% EBR, 12% TDS, 19.2% EY.

Bigger-bodied Robur shots will usually taste well-balanced at 19-20% EY.

Lighter-bodied EK shot won't taste their best until they run longer and the yield is 22-23%.

I'm always focused more on flavor balance than body, but some people may not be enthusiastic about the lighter EK shots. I can't grind any finer with the EK coffee burrs than I'm already grinding. If I could, it's possible the shots could be more concentrated, but a person I trust recommended against the Turkish burrs (after taste testing both). With more break-in time, my coffee burrs might perform slightly better than they perform now.

I imagine the Robur shots' bigger body is due both to the higher TDS and also the higher proportion of fines, but this is speculation.

There is also the separate possibility that use of the higher-yielding EK with say, 17g doses will allow folks to get the same solids in their espresso (with acceptable taste) compared to conventional espresso grinders and 20g doses. I think this is important but it remains to be seen.


----------



## Bob_McBob

I do find it slightly worrying that people keep saying they're working so close to the limit. As you mentioned, Matt Perger even claimed he had to nutate to get acceptable flow at the finest setting. However, I had a somewhat similar experience with the K30 Vario; with VST baskets at appropriate doses and specific types of beans, I was basically riding the finest setting with the burrs zeroed per the official procedure.


----------



## 4085

AndyS said:


> I'm a little bit surprised over the unending orgy of praise for the EK43. I mean, I love using mine; despite the longer time one spends in prepping the shot, the EK43's ultra-low grounds retention and almost instant grinding ability are super convenient.
> 
> But it makes a very different kind of espresso than say, a Robur. The Robur's output is heavy and rich, while the EK's tends to be lighter and clear. At least with my abilities as a barista, the EK shots are not always better.
> 
> In the rush of EK mania that seems to be overwhelming the members of this forum, I wonder how many people are going to be less than thrilled with their new investment.
> 
> View attachment 5778


Andy, more than one I suspect! I very rarely buy things on hype. the last time I did was a Vario when they first came out and in truth, with hindsight, they are just as bad as some of us thought they would be, despite the hype. Next came the Behmor.........in the UK absolutely hyped up to the eyeballs by the sole UK distributor who dropped them very quickly........and life goes on and on.........


----------



## garydyke1

AndyS said:


> but a person I trust recommended against the Turkish burrs (after taste testing both).


This is interesting because you speak to various ''trusted'' sources in the coffee world and 50% say the turkish burrs (with the coffee prebreaker) are superior.


----------



## coffeechap

But is this all hype, I am a big conical burr grinder lover, probably due to the body and mouth feel that you get from them, however having tried the coffee burr ek43 on the l1 I would concur the shot is different, but in a good way, the clarity of the extraction is astonishing, so much so that rave have been living using mine for the past week in their roastery, so those that have tried them, and are buying them because they have tried them, cannot be dissapointed.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Bob_McBob said:


> I do find it slightly worrying that people keep saying they're working so close to the limit.


Isn't that what it's all about - pursuit of coffee excellence through ever smaller marginal gains? What's the point of having the capacity to go finer if all it does is choke the extraction? Point about the EK is that it works differently to other grinders in respect of better particle size distribution. Granted this might often be near or at its margins but the only question that's important is whether it can grind fine enough for the different types of bean put through it to produce the desired extraction. If it can, and we need more hands on feedback on this, then that's all that matters. My interest in the EK is driven by a desire to get into extraction territory not previously attainable and check out the results.....by taste.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Andy, would be interested to know what type of tamper you are using with the EK? I started with a convex and have just dug out my over-size flat which, with the first few extractions I've used it with, produced longer extraction times than I was achieving with the convex - (nutating on both).


----------



## The Systemic Kid

As regards baskets, had best results, so far, with the IMS compared to the LM Stradas and VST both of which were dosed to their stated capacity - but I haven't tried them with a flat tamper yet.


----------



## AndyS

garydyke1 said:


> This is interesting because you speak to various ''trusted'' sources in the coffee world and 50% say the turkish burrs (with the coffee prebreaker) are superior.


Opinions vary, which makes coffee interesting -- and buying decisions difficult.



dfk41 said:


> the Behmor.........in the UK absolutely hyped up to the eyeballs by the sole UK distributor who dropped them very quickly........and life goes on and on.........


I, too, bought a Behmor. It's probably an impossible task to build an inexpensive consumer-oriented home roaster that will give long years of service.



coffeechap said:


> having tried the coffee burr ek43 on the l1 I would concur the shot is different, but in a good way, the clarity of the extraction is astonishing, so much so that rave have been living using mine for the past week in their roastery, so those that have tried them, and are buying them because they have tried them, cannot be dissapointed.


If you can test extensively before purchasing, that is fantastic. I didn't have that chance, but I certainly do not regret purchasing the EK. It is one awesome grinder.



The Systemic Kid said:


> Andy, would be interested to know what type of tamper you are using with the EK? I started with a convex and have just dug out my over-size flat which, with the first few extractions I've used it with, produced longer extraction times than I was achieving with the convex - (nutating on both).


I'm using a 58.4 flat. I've run a bunch of comparison shots trying to test Kaminsky's claim that flats with a VST give higher yields than convex. Mostly my results agree with his claim.

And as far as I can see, it's always better taste-wise to use a technique that gives higher yields -- you don't necessarily extract a higher yield, you extract what you want, but you do so more evenly with better taste.


----------



## 4085

The Hype I am referring to starts with MP bigging it up. Nothing wrong with those who know how to get the best from something trying to do so, but it is the endless comments from those who have now decided that this is the got o grinder to match their set up.......based on hype


----------



## Mrboots2u

Mr kidd you've talked enough grinders up in your time...about one a month. .









Then ek sounds like Its tastes are different ill wait til I get to try it then give an opinion.

Interesting points andy always well thought out and constructed posts. Cheers


----------



## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> The Hype I am referring to starts with MP bigging it up. Nothing wrong with those who know how to get the best from something trying to do so, but it is the endless comments from those who have now decided that this is the got o grinder to match their set up.......based on hype


Well hopefully this speculation and posturing can be put to bed when we pitch the EK against the niño and the versalab later this month!


----------



## Charliej

So Andy based on your experience is the EK suited to every style of roast or if one prefers darker roasted coffee is it better to go with one of the traditional "go to" grinders? I ask this because I have been asking, and had varying replies " is different better or just different" do you absolutely have to run EK shots for longer to get the best from them?

Not owning a refractometer, or having gotten into coffee at this analytic level, how does a higher TDS correlate to a lower overall yield? This may seem a stupid question and I have most probably overlooked some easy to see factor in this.


----------



## MWJB

Charliej said:


> Not owning a refractometer, or having gotten into coffee at this analytic level, how does a higher TDS correlate to a lower overall yield? This may seem a stupid question and I have most probably overlooked some easy to see factor in this.


Well, you don't need a refractometer to tell a more concentrated drink from another (as many factors that can be, being equal), you just need it to tell you how concentrated, so you can determine how much of the dose has been dissolved. Irrespective of the different grinders, we know that if we pull shots shorter & shorter, on the same machine, they are thicker...but there comes a point when even though they are thicker, we are extracting less from the dose, %TDS goes up, but extraction yield (mass of the dose that is dissolved and lands in the cup) goes down. This is pertinent to drip too, as you extract more from the coffee dose, you get a bigger, more diluted (you might call it weaker) drink. It's a see saw effect.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> Well hopefully this speculation and posturing can be put to bed when we pitch the EK against the niño and the versalab later this month!


Now, that will be very interesting. Be good if the test comparisons include light, medium and dark roasts?


----------



## AndyS

Charliej said:


> So Andy based on your experience is the EK suited to every style of roast or if one prefers darker roasted coffee is it better to go with one of the traditional "go to" grinders? I ask this because I have been asking, and had varying replies " is different better or just different"


I have used the EK for far more light roasts than dark, so I'm not really sure of the answer. With the EK some of the dark roasts tasted kind of burnt, whereas they might have been more mellow-tasting with the Robur. But I have done very few direct comparisons with Robur vs EK on dark roasts. One reason for my lack of thoroughness is that the Robur requires a tedious and wasteful purging procedure every time you switch beans. And something you will greatly appreciate about the EK is your ability to just throw a dose of a new bean in the hopper and pull a shot with it....



Charliej said:


> do you absolutely have to run EK shots for longer to get the best from them?


In coffee there are absolutely no absolutes.

But seriously, one doesn't HAVE to run the EK shots longer, but with my usual beans, equipment and technique I can't get the yields up high enough (22.5-23%) to get the best flavor without running them long (EK shots at 20-21% yield tend to be dry and boring). Dark roasts extract easier and the shots wouldn't be as long.



Charliej said:


> Not owning a refractometer, or having gotten into coffee at this analytic level, how does a higher TDS correlate to a lower overall yield?


What Mark said, and also:

extraction yield = (beverage mass) x (%TDS) / (coffee dose)

So if the beverage mass is a lot lower and the TDS is only a little higher, the extraction yield will go down.


----------



## dsc

AndyS said:


> One reason for my lack of thoroughness is that the Robur requires a tedious and wasteful purging procedure every time you switch beans. And something you will greatly appreciate about the EK is your ability to just throw a dose of a new bean in the hopper and pull a shot with it....


I'd be open to clashing the EK with the ZR, it's 71mm conical with pretty much zero retention (0.1g maybe), you can single dose or run with a hopper if you are paranoid of single dosing, popcorning and similar

Regards,

T.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Works, by and large, with the doses I usually use - early recommendation for L1 was to wait until first drop appears - however long. Got bored with that.
> 
> Will give 'zero seconds' a go just to see but I would be surprised if the extraction is as good.





dsc said:


> I'd be open to clashing the EK with the ZR, it's 71mm conical with pretty much zero retention (0.1g maybe), you can single dose or run with a hopper if you are paranoid of single dosing, popcorning and similar
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Are we going to see some pics of it then.....


----------



## dsc

I'd love to Boots, but it's not as simple as people might think (IP protection that is)...

Regards,

T.


----------



## vikingboy

AndyS said:


> But seriously, one doesn't HAVE to run the EK shots longer, but with my usual beans, equipment and technique I can't get the yields up high enough (22.5-23%) to get the best flavor without running them long (EK shots at 20-21% yield tend to be dry and boring). Dark roasts extract easier and the shots wouldn't be as long.


Thx for your input Andy. Are there implications for using a lever machine with an Ek43 versus a pump driven machine where water volume is not so limited Andy?


----------



## Mrboots2u

vikingboy said:


> Thx for your input Andy. Are there implications for using a lever machine with an Ek43 versus a pump driven machine where water volume is not so limited Andy?


You can do a Fellini move ( Second pull on the l1 )

done it a few times with larger doses, hasn't broken the puck etc


----------



## The Systemic Kid

This morning's effort: two flat whites using Atkinson's Thalia blend. Pulled one through the HG One - the other through the EK.

HG One: 20grms dose - 30grms out in 33secs - enjoyable drink - nothing remarkable to pick out taste-wise but lingering body mouthfeel.

EK43: 20grms dose - 30grms out in 21 secs. Immediate malted biscuit taste giving way to lingering balanced sweet lemony blackcurrant acidity. Body mouthfeel perhaps not as strong as via the HG but sill lingering well after coffees consumed.

EK set to its finest setting. Used an oversize flat tamper - nutated and applied medium pressure - not excessive.


----------



## dsc

Hmm that seems pretty short for such a big dose on the EK, what was the reason of stopping it at 21s, weight / volume or appearance of the shot?

Regards,

T.


----------



## grimpeur

dsc said:


> I'd love to Boots, but it's not as simple as people might think (IP protection that is)...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


I hadn't thought of that. Get your patents applied for and get some pictures up Tom!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Hmm that seems pretty short for such a big dose on the EK, what was the reason of stopping it at 21s, weight / volume or appearance of the shot? Regards, T.


LI has a capacity of around 60ml. Would have to do some Fellini pulls to extend volume extraction. Going to give this a go tomorrow when I take the EK over to Boots who's itching to get hands on.


----------



## garydyke1

Im kinda leaning towards the T model


----------



## garydyke1

Did you try zero preinfusion?


----------



## dsc

grimpeur said:


> I hadn't thought of that. Get your patents applied for and get some pictures up Tom!


If only it was that easy or cheap











> LI has a capacity of around 60ml. Would have to do some Fellini pulls to extend volume extraction. Going to give this a go tomorrow when I take the EK over to Boots who's itching to get hands on.


I right, it's the lever factor, I'm more used to pressing buttons how come such a big differences in times between the HG1 and the EK? how did the pours compare?

Regards,

T.


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> LI has a capacity of around 60ml. Would have to do some Fellini pulls to extend volume extraction. Going to give this a go tomorrow when I take the EK over to Boots who's itching to get hands on.


If the group holds 60ml you should see significantly more than 30g out if you let the shot run?


----------



## oop north

The Systemic Kid said:


> LI has a capacity of around 60ml. Would have to do some Fellini pulls to extend volume extraction. Going to give this a go tomorrow when I take the EK over to Boots who's itching to get hands on.


I say! I am going to be having a bit of a treat then! Look forward to seeing you both tomorrow!


----------



## Mrboots2u

oop north said:


> I say! I am going to be having a bit of a treat then! Look forward to seeing you both tomorrow!


You me and Patrick or the l1 and grinder ....


----------



## oop north

Mrboots2u said:


> You me and Patrick or the l1 and grinder ....


That would be telling


----------



## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> If the group holds 60ml you should see significantly more than 30g out if you let the shot run?


Very little actually.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> You me and Patrick or the l1 and grinder ....


Do you really need to ask Boots?


----------



## oop north

I may be concentrating on you two actually in an attempt to resist the pressure you will be putting on me to buy an L1 for myself! So if you would make some really rubbish shots for me to try my wife would be very grateful! (though I have warned her that I may buy myself an espresso machine as a birthday present from me to me and we have discussed where it might sit)


----------



## Soll

Sounds like its a done deal, make sure you take lots of nice pics


----------



## Mrboots2u

oop north said:


> I may be concentrating on you two actually in an attempt to resist the pressure you will be putting on me to buy an L1 for myself! So if you would make some really rubbish shots for me to try my wife would be very grateful! (though I have warned her that I may buy myself an espresso machine as a birthday present from me to me and we have discussed where it might sit)


Lol no pressure from me

ill let the drink do the talking ( and to be safe I'll let Patrick make them







) .

did you discuss how much it was though......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Did you try zero preinfusion?


Nope, but will give that a go later.


----------



## oop north

Mrboots2u said:


> did you discuss how much it was though......


No comment...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> how come such a big differences in times between the HG1 and the EK? how did the pours compare?


Went quite fine on the HG but not way out of my usual range for grind setting. The EK was on finest grind setting - maybe I needed to tamp a bit harder. That said, the shot produced was fantastic and what I've come to expect putting this particular blend through the EK which the HG can't replicate. Also wonder if the percentage of fines' difference between the two grinders might account in part for the extraction time difference.


----------



## dsc

I'm only asking as you might find yourself in a situation when you are already at the finest setting, tamping hard and still getting fast shots. They might taste great, but it will drive you crazy wondering what it would be if you could go a notch finer

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> I'm only asking as you might find yourself in a situation when you are already at the finest setting, tamping hard and still getting fast shots. They might taste great, but it will drive you crazy wondering what it would be if you could go a notch finerRegards, T.


Don't say things like that Tom - I'll get all anxious and start wondering if I should have gone for the Turkish burrs instead


----------



## coffeechap

should have bought the turkish burr set instead patrick!!!


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Don't say things like that Tom - I'll get all anxious and start wondering if I should have gone for the Turkish burrs instead


You could always retro fit them ...oooohh for about 300 odd quid ; ]


----------



## ronsil

At this stage in McEnroe's famous words ".....you can not be serious"!!


----------



## garydyke1

Id be interested to hear from the Guys at Rave and using the EK on their Verona TCS (ie are they finding they dont need to grind quite as fine)


----------



## dsc

Poor Patrick, I was only joking









On a more serious note, I'm curious what differences there are between the Coffee and Turkish burr sets, surely it cannot just be the size of the output cuts on the sides.

Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

dsc said:


> Poor Patrick, I was only joking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a more serious note, I'm curious what differences there are between the Coffee and Turkish burr sets, surely it cannot just be the size of the output cuts on the sides.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


I believe the EK43T has a different prebreaker/auger to the coffee variant - feed rate / angle likely to be different. I have requested a parts diagram for both models (for my own research)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> should have bought the turkish burr set instead patrick!!!


Na, na, na, not listening


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> I believe the EK43T has a different prebreaker/auger to the coffee variant - feed rate / angle likely to be different. I have requested a parts diagram for both models (for my own research)


Good stuff - we need to know more.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> You could always retro fit them ...oooohh for about 300 odd quid ; ]


Why not follow DFK's lead on tandem grinders and go for an EKK one with coffee the other with Turkish burrs??


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Did you try zero preinfusion?


OK, did with Coffee Compass's Mahogany Roast. 20grms - no pre-infusion - got around 30grms out in 2 minutes by which time my short attention span had got the better of me so I gave up. Then tried 18grms - again no pre-infusion and got 34.5grms out in 54 seconds (another 3grms collected in the container after I'd pulled the cup) making a grand total of 37.5grms from a single lever pull. Filmed the extraction to show the flow through the naked PF which was amazingly even. The taste was dark as hell - leather, chewing tobacco (not that I've tried it) but not bitter. Can still taste it in my mouth 45mins later. Might not need the Turkish burrs just yet


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Im kinda leaning towards the T model


18.5grms in and extraction ended around 10-12 secs from time he hit the brew button?


----------



## garydyke1

Told u ! ......


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> 18.5grms in and extraction ended around 10-12 secs from time he hit the brew button?


Edited dude : ) they are 25secs . Twittered them about it


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Edited dude : ) they are 25secs . Twittered them about it


That's reassuring - had me puzzled but it doesn't take much


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Here's the 'no-preinfusion' extraction video.


----------



## coffeechap

The coffee burrs are perfect patrick


----------



## GS11

Slightly off topic.....Gary's earlier video linked to this






What tamper and base is MP using with his nutating technique see from around 10.50 onwards?

......and is that a jam funnel he's dosing into?


----------



## c_squared

The Systemic Kid said:


> Here's the 'no-preinfusion' extraction video.


That's amazing how it just doesn't seem to blonde towards the end of the shot!


----------



## garydyke1

GS11 said:


> Slightly off topic.....Gary's earlier video linked to this


This is what started all the fuss.

Yep a kilner jam funnel !


----------



## GS11

garydyke1 said:


> This is what started all the fuss.
> 
> Yep a kilner jam funnel !


Thanks Gary....any idea on the tamper MP is using and with what base.

I take it he would be using vst baskets?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Have you seen how much those coffee catchas cost?!


----------



## coffeechap

It's a Pullman flat tamper


----------



## garydyke1

WBC was 20g VST baskets .


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> The coffee burrs are perfect patrick


Cheers CC - that's very reassuring.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Have you seen how much those coffee catchas cost?!


Yup, they're crazy money! I checked them out a few weeks ago, can't justify at that price.


----------



## dsc

Thanks for the video Patrick, looking awesome, can't try the ZR on the L1 ahhhh too many acronyms

As for the nutating motion, I remember mentioning a big difference between nutated and non-nutated shots on HB years ago and people called me mad. Mad right?









Regards,

T.


----------



## ronsil

Do you have any of the latest DSOL, Dusty Ape Beans?

As I said in another thread they would test the coffee burrs. Need to be really fine. I would think EK at its real tightest with 'coffee burrs'


----------



## garydyke1

GS11 said:


> Slightly off topic.....Gary's earlier video linked to this


What was that grind setting, doesnt look zero to me? and was it infact optimized for the 'coffeeshots' hence the need to nutate?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> Do you have any of the latest DSOL, Dusty Ape Beans?
> 
> As I said in another thread they would test the coffee burrs. Need to be really fine. I would think EK at its real tightest with 'coffee burrs'


DFK David kindly gave me a bag when I was up in Newcastle last week - taking them over to Boots's later this morning so he can have a play on the EK. Will let you know how they fare.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

And yes, Boots, EK does fit in the car - just. Gonna leave it to you to prize it out when I get to Chez Boots - value my back even more than an EK!


----------



## Mrboots2u

I've got some here Ron too....

See you in bait old man ( Patrick ....not Ron )


----------



## Xpenno

Very much looking forward to seeing the results of this meet







lots of pics and vids please!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Very much looking forward to seeing the results of this meet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lots of pics and vids please!


Ok will Probably just end up with us bent double from shifting the bloody thing out of the car.......

and a ambulance turning up .....


----------



## garydyke1

As a cripple wont be able to use an EK43 i will offer you 100 english pounds & a pack of ibuprofen for it


----------



## Mrboots2u

I've made a space ready and a plug is empty ...

Now if the mrs comes back and doesn't say anything about two grinders in the house


----------



## coffeechap

where can i get some curtains like that?


----------



## 4085

Oxfam more than likely!


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> where can i get some curtains like that?


ask mrs b she makes them..........

or you could ask your parents to make you some ....


----------



## coffeechap

thanks it is nice being young enough that both parents are still breathing


----------



## Mrboots2u

I'm adopted .....

By Patrick


----------



## coffeechap

clearly boots clearly


----------



## Mrboots2u




----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


>


The EK is showing no respect at all for the curtains. Its swiped them to one side with with no mercy


----------



## Mrboots2u




----------



## jeebsy

How does it taste? Extraction times?


----------



## Mrboots2u

I'm writing it down .......gimme a chance


----------



## vikingboy

you guys should have set up a google hangout for us all to join in at







lovely looking coffee above......


----------



## dsc

Let me guess, 'outstanding' ?









Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

Forget the fancy smancy latte art. Milks clouding the results.... Tell us about the espresso/lungos!


----------



## garydyke1

I think they are in a caffeine haze, slumped on the floor


----------



## Mrboots2u




----------



## garydyke1

Come on 18.5 in .....70g out


----------



## coffeechap

gary remember they will have to do some arty video


----------



## dsc

Artsy shmartsy, tell us what the shots taste like!!









Regards,

T.


----------



## drude

Forget the coffee - time to see if the EK can grind curtains


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


>


I think the curtains are more tasteful than the MP promotion !

Does it come off easily ? [ the sticker ]

-JKK


----------



## garydyke1

Yeah but invalidates the warranty , lol


----------



## coffeechap

amazingly easily unless you want to keep him on there


----------



## Charliej

The autograph does look like it says M pervert not Perger lol.


----------



## coffeechap

charlie go and visit boots and get your eyes tested


----------



## Mrboots2u

Lol got a few clips and pics and put a variety of stuff through including some Fellini pull lungo shots Gary .

Got to pop out for a school meeting I'll post up later


----------



## garydyke1

A simple , yes it was tasty would have done


----------



## MarkyP

indeed!!!...!!!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Yes it was tasty . Happy now


----------



## garydyke1

OK, PHEW (wipes brow). Now you can supply all the detail


----------



## Mrboots2u

Gary we experimented and pulled some longer type of shots , although probably not the lungo type stuff you wanted .

Did a 21g in 45 g out of dumerso in about 30-35 ish .

Used a double pull on the lever , I have clips somewhere .

This was on the finest setting , we didn't really touch the grind much all afternoon .

i am presuming out could coarsen the grind iof here and get different results also .

It Provoked the most comments of the day .

It has an amazing aroma of fruit

There was the fruit ( strawberry to some , blueberry to others ) that was right up front , but in a tea lighter way.

No hint of acidity at all.

i also pulled some traditional normale and ristretto ratio shots too with out much fuss.

With some darker beans also .

i ain't got much time to get into it now.


----------



## oop north

Many thanks to Mr Boots and The Systemic Kid for letting me join in the playtime - I was attending as a near novice in the world of espresso but considering the purchase of a Londinium (I am not going to attempt to justify that train of thought and, in any event, I am still somewhat uncertain whether or not to take the plunge). I had a most pleasant time!

I won't say anything at all technical - as I am rather ignorant of espresso geekery, but there was a very interesting array of flavours coming out - one of the last shots pulled (the one referred to by Mr Boots immediately above) was amazingly light and almost tea-like. A bit like one would imagine a fruit tea to taste if one had never actually had one (I think they taste revolting but this was very nice). I was getting apple peelings myself, rather than strawberry/blueberry...

It was notable that there was absolutely no faffing around with dialling the EK grinder at all in all the time I was there, no matter what the bean/roast - it was just left as fine as it went the whole time I was there

BY the way, I think you all owe them a vote of thanks for so selflessly consuming an excess of caffeine for your benefit - when I arrived, they had already been shooting for a while (I had carefully had no coffee at all today before getting there - and managed to limit myself so I was able to have a brew when I got home, for reference purposes). They weren't slumped on the floor - they were rather near the ceiling!

Anyway, thanks again!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Head hurts - need a darkened corner for a couple of hours


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Head hurts - need a darkened corner for a couple of hours


Lightweight ....


----------



## oop north

Mrboots2u said:


> Lightweight ....


I seem to recall you complaining about a belt tightening around your head!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

If the EK could only talk

View attachment 5813
View attachment 5814


----------



## garydyke1

''holy shit, are we stood up or lying down?!''


----------



## Mrboots2u

gonna move that pic to another thread so this doesn't go massively of course


----------



## 4085

This candle in a glass should fool them said Patrick, after he collapsed in a heap on the floor after one shot of some proper manly, dark roasted stuff


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Don't know how many beans we tried this morning - five or six at least - ranging from light/medium through to dark/oily. Left the EK on its finest setting - varied dose weight from as low as 17grm and up to 21/22grm (memory is still a bit shaky). EK munched through everything thrown at it with no fuss. No adjustments were made grind setting-wise for bean changes. EK performed as if all the beans were the same.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Yep we used

Square Mile - Kochere

Rave - Dumerso

Coffee Compass - Malabar Hit

Dsol - Dusty Ape

Rave - Peddabayallu

Atkinsons - Thalia Blend


----------



## Mrboots2u

View attachment 5819


Collage One..........


----------



## Mrboots2u

First shot of the day .....


----------



## garydyke1

I want one (still)


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> I want one (still)


Nah not for the likes of you......


----------



## garydyke1

boooo hooo pleassssse.


----------



## garydyke1

It's amazing what you find in the kitchen cupboards . Clips in like a glove


----------



## garydyke1




----------



## vikingboy

aren't those burrs touching during the first pull video?


----------



## garydyke1

Does sound like chirp point.

Any further write up from the day pending?


----------



## Xpenno

Great write up lads! Did you do any side-by-side between the mythos and EK?

I'm just finishing my second bag of the Kochere, it was a beggar to dial in and I'm still not sure I've got it nailed







Had a shot this morning before I dismantled my grinder and group (which unfortunately stayed that way until a few minutes ago), I tried a different tact after watching an hour long Ben Kaminsky talk last night and went for 20g in, 40g out in the usual sort of time frame and it was the best shot of it I've had. More sweetness, prune, plum, cherry etc. a great shot indeed. Would love to taste on the EK, one can dream I suppose....


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Does sound like chirp point.
> 
> Any further write up from the day pending?


Nope weren't touching ...

What do you want to know guys, I'm happy to answer any questions and would probably prefer to do this , rather than spout a big few paragraphs bout stuff, that people might not be interested in and be accused of hyping it up as a result









Ask away, and as much as 2 hours qualifies me to have any valid opinions on the grinder , and ill try and answer in a fair minded way.

Cheers


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Great write up lads! Did you do any side-by-side between the mythos and EK?
> 
> I'm just finishing my second bag of the Kochere, it was a beggar to dial in and I'm still not sure I've got it nailed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Had a shot this morning before I dismantled my grinder and group (which unfortunately stayed that way until a few minutes ago), I tried a different tact after watching an hour long Ben Kaminsky talk last night and went for 20g in, 40g out in the usual sort of time frame and it was the best shot of it I've had. More sweetness, prune, plum, cherry etc. a great shot indeed. Would love to taste on the EK, one can dream I suppose....


Didn't do any side by sides on the day as was more interested in trying different shots and coffee in the short period we were together.

The shot of kochere today that I had was sweet fruity, head full of strawberries and well balanced, there was acidity there but it felt like part of the drink , as opposed to a bang at the back that i got from the Mythos.

I enjoyed the mythos shots but i preferred the Ek one today .


----------



## garydyke1

Did paying attention to shot prep hugely impact results in the cup? I get the impression that you can be quite slap dash and its still tasty


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Did paying attention to shot prep hugely impact results in the cup? I get the impression that you can be quite slap dash and its still tasty


Errr have you seen the clip ?

Yeah we were slapdash , grounds thrown into funnel, tamp and go.

If i had one i think that id like to try with a bit more prep to see if it made any significant difference or not.

On some of the shots there was quite a bit of channeling but , it didn't seem to make the same difference in the cup that it would have on my normal grinder . The shots still tasted balanced, with aspects of acidity but not sharp and jagged that you would expect from the visual of the shot .

Im not saying its some kind of magic grinder , its not , but to me the shots i had today were different in balance to some of the ones I've pulled recently with the same beans, annd this was with less phasing and prep etc.


----------



## Xpenno

I've read various peoples thoughts on the EK saying that when you do get a bad shot then it's really bad (dry, acrid generally awful). Did you manage to get what you'd class as a bad shot out of it today?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> I've read various peoples thoughts on the EK saying that when you do get a bad shot then it's really bad (dry, acrid generally awful). Did you manage to get what you'd class as a bad shot out of it today?


There were some beans that were not to my taste and i didn't drink those shots.

These were also not to my taste on other grinders, nothing to so with the grinder , i could have told you i wouldn't like them by the colour of them. I was not alone in not drinking those shots.

There was one attempt at a coffee shot which was just a bit bobbins....mainly because i was making it up as i went along .

Again I'm sure given more time i could make a bad one on this grinder the same as i could on my current one.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

No, we didn't Spence. Some were better than others but none were rank which was a bit of a surprise as we were taking liberties switching from bean to bean without adjusting grind.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> No, we didn't Spence. Some were better than others but none were rank which was a bit of a surprise as we were taking liberties switching from bean to bean without adjusting grind.


Viking asked if the burrs are chirping in the first clip .

this wasn't my impression and care to comment


----------



## Xpenno

Sounds like my sort of grinder. Shit in, shot out


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Viking asked if the burrs are chirping in the first clip .
> 
> this wasn't my impression and care to comment


It sounded like my royal does when you get a little bean residue on the burr carrier which then rubs on the side of the grind chamber.


----------



## Neill

Have you ordered yours yet then boots?


----------



## Xpenno

Anyone got a link to the metal cups that I keep seeing in these EK vids?

Cheers

Spence


----------



## ronsil

Amazon have all sorts of stainless steel tumblers including the 'cocktail shaker' base that Patrick is using.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Anyone got a link to the metal cups that I keep seeing in these EK vids? Cheers Spence


As Ron say, it's a cocktail shaker tumbler - got mine from Callum. Top bloke.


----------



## Xpenno

Thanks both, looks like we might need an EK sub forum soon


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Thanks both, looks like we might need an EK sub forum soon


Will be useful being able to share and compare. Really want some hands on feedback regarding Turkish burrs. Boots told me there aren't any available till 2015. Anyone else heard this?


----------



## Xpenno

Callum is the only guy I know with a full on turkish.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Callum is the only guy I know with a full on turkish.


derp and I thought he had coffee burrs ......


----------



## Xpenno

Think his personal machine is coffee and his work machine is turkish. Could be wrong though.


----------



## coffeechap

Nope Callum has the coffee burr version


----------



## gryphon

Yes me too the burrs sounds are chirping. If I compare with mine at least. Are you using VST basket? If I grind at the finest setting it's to tight. 4-5 notch I needed.


----------



## vikingboy

whilst looking for something this evening, I noticed a tweet from Matt Perger who suggested the coffee burrs were capable of higher yields and therefore his preference.


----------



## garydyke1

vikingboy said:


> whilst looking for something this evening, I noticed a tweet from Matt Perger who suggested the coffee burrs were capable of higher yields and therefore his preference.


& John Gordon and Colin Harmon had a different view. Good luck getting Turkish burrs in 2014


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Think his personal machine is coffee and his work machine is turkish. Could be wrong though.


Yeah , im sure the shop has EK43T, his personal one EK43


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Will be useful being able to share and compare. Really want some hands on feedback regarding Turkish burrs. Boots told me there aren't any available till 2015. Anyone else heard this?


Been told the same thing, no 'new' EK43T , unless places have remaining stock.

Oh and not many do

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/brands/mahlkonig/mahlkonig-ek43t-coffee-grinder

http://wholesale.workshopcoffee.com/collections/machinery/products/mahlkonig-ek43t


----------



## garydyke1

What about these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-X-Stainless-Steel-Cups-Cover-Mug-Drinking-Coffee-Camping-Travel-Tumbler-Mini-/360731739474?pt=UK_HG_Crockery_RL&hash=item53fd498552


----------



## stub24

garydyke1 said:


> What about these
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-X-Stainless-Steel-Cups-Cover-Mug-Drinking-Coffee-Camping-Travel-Tumbler-Mini-/360731739474?pt=UK_HG_Crockery_RL&hash=item53fd498552


Thanks for this link, have bought some in anticipation.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Its still my opinion the burrs are not chirping, if you look at the clips the noise you hear is after the beans go in , not while the machine is running on it own.

Ive got a another clip of it running before that same setting , where you can't here this chirping noise. Let me put that up and see if it changes anyones mind .

No chirping here , same setting


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Its still my opinion the burrs are not chirping, if you look at the clips the noise you hear is after the beans go in , not while the machine is running on it own.
> 
> Ive got a another clip of it running before that same setting , where you can't here this chirping noise. Let me put that up and see if it changes anyones mind .


Getting paranoid now - seriously, burrs not touching - noise you can hear can occur at wider grind setting too, so it's not the burrs.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> What about these
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-X-Stainless-Steel-Cups-Cover-Mug-Drinking-Coffee-Camping-Travel-Tumbler-Mini-/360731739474?pt=UK_HG_Crockery_RL&hash=item53fd498552


Might find they are a bit too small. With some beans, a 20grm dose can just over half fill the Boston tumbler which is 8cm deep and 6cm wide. Remember, the grind comes out oh so fluffy and puffed up


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Been told the same thing, no 'new' EK43T , unless places have remaining stock.
> 
> Oh and not many do
> 
> http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/brands/mahlkonig/mahlkonig-ek43t-coffee-grinder
> 
> http://wholesale.workshopcoffee.com/collections/machinery/products/mahlkonig-ek43t


Those prices are very steep!


----------



## Mrboots2u

I know the burrs arent chirping!


----------



## jeebsy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Those prices are very steep!


Think with the demand the prices are only going to go up too


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Think with the demand the prices are only going to go up too


Makes Coffee Omega's forum deal price very attractive.


----------



## AndyS

Mrboots2u said:


> First shot of the day .....


Really fun video.

BTW, the click you hear after turning the motor off is not a brake. It's a centrifugal switch opening up as the rpm's drop. Centrifugal switches are used in certain types of electric motor to engage and disengage secondary windings that provide greater starting torque.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Forgot Boots had the microphone on - thanks for the engineering heads up, Andy - science wasn't my strong point at school!


----------



## dsc

Is it necessary to do all the thwacking with the bag lever?

Regards,

T.


----------



## Mrboots2u

dsc said:


> Is it necessary to do all the thwacking with the bag lever?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


It's a small thing to do for near zero retention ...


----------



## dsc

I was curious what happens when you don't do it, is there a lot of coffee cling due to static, or simply stuff sticking due to how fine the grind is?

Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

In the UKBC Maxwell used the side of a wooden brush handle to tap the exit chute, rather than use the thwacker - he likes his 0.1g accuracy


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> In the UKBC Maxwell used the side of a wooden brush handle to tap the exit chute, rather than use the thwacker - he likes his 0.1g accuracy


During yesterday's caffeine fog at chez Boots, were hitting maximum 0.2grm plus or minus target dose weight no matter what bean we were using.


----------



## dsc

On the Guat I removed the bag lever as I never used it, never thought of using it to removing clinging bits like that, although it makes sense. Without tapping / thwacking you do get cling, which is why I voiced my concerns earlier on.

The other thing I've noticed on the video is how hard and long you tap the PF against the table. Is that what you do on any grinder or only the EK?

Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

Very reassuring . All that money saved on preventing bean waste. Grinder will pay for itself in a decade ; )


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> The other thing I've noticed on the video is how hard and long you tap the PF against the table. Is that what you do on any grinder or only the EK? Regards, T.


Think that was a consequence of too much caffeine beginning to kick in!







. It's not necessary really.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Very reassuring . All that money saved on preventing bean waste. Grinder will pay for itself in a decade ; )


Saves on pour over grind too - if your routine involves sieving out the fines prior to brewing. Was getting approx 4-5grms waste - now it's down to 3-4grms - every little helps as they say.


----------



## oop north

dsc said:


> Is it necessary to do all the thwacking with the bag lever?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


It was a very, very naughty grinder, eh, wasn't it Mr Systemic?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

oop north said:


> It was a very, very naughty grinder, eh, wasn't it Mr Systemic?


Yes, very naughty indeed!


----------



## jeebsy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Saves on pour over grind too - if your routine involves sieving out the fines prior to brewing. Was getting approx 4-5grms waste - now it's down to 3-4grms - every little helps as they say.


I thought with the EK43 having much improved particle distribution there'd be less fines that this for some reason


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> I thought with the EK43 having much improved particle distribution there'd be less fines that this for some reason


The sieve isn't that fine I'm trying to brew pour over around 19% extraction to pull out the really delicate flavours. If you leave the dust from the grind, it gives the coffee more body/mouthfeel at the expense of those fleeting aromas and tastes. Don't find reducing the extraction % with them in to around 19% gives the same taste/aroma results.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> I thought with the EK43 having much improved particle distribution there'd be less fines that this for some reason


The most amazing filter coffee I have had has come from a Marco Uber Grinder, Ditting 903 or Mahlkonig Tanzania - none of which were sieved. the EK is meant to be > than all of them for brewed. Sure sieving is an option but not essential for deliciousness


----------



## dsc

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not that great for both methods. If it is, why the hell have we waited so long for a burrset which is capable of delivering a grind suitable both for espresso and brewed?

Regards,

T.


----------



## MWJB

dsc said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it's not that great for both methods. If it is, why the hell have we waited so long for a burrset which is capable of delivering a grind suitable both for espresso and brewed?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


We haven't, I was still at school when this grinder was designed (3 decades ago). If it wasn't being used for grinding espresso & brewed, then what coffee was it grinding? Espresso use use goes back ~10 years according to some sources.


----------



## dsc

I meant why wasn't a similar burrset made for standard Mazzer-like grinders and used through-out in cafes? It's all about the burrset here imho, the rest of the grinder is your standard Mahlkonig work horse, with slight cosmetic changes.

Regards,

T.


----------



## ronsil

I suggest as a shop grinder it was designed to deliver medium grind to order for filter coffee served in bags & of course nothing to do with coffee but had a lot of use for grinding spices, nuts etc.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> The most amazing filter coffee I have had has come from a Marco Uber Grinder, Ditting 903 or Mahlkonig Tanzania - none of which were sieved. the EK is meant to be > than all of them for brewed. Sure sieving is an option but not essential for deliciousness


Agree! Find sieving increases the flavour clarity. This morning's HasBean Ethioian Kebel Kercha Guji gives off masses of strawberry aroma. Sieved dose was 31grms - TDS was 1.25. Will use same dose weight tomorrow for comparison and won't sieve. Figure mouthfeel and body will rise with higher TDS at expense of flavour clarity.


----------



## MWJB

Kaminsky said in his Nordic roaster talk that he talked to Mazzer about making a similar grinder/burrs, they apparently said they could do it...but won't. It doesn't suit their ethos or what they perceive to be their market (Italian style espresso as opposed to trying to extract lighter roasted SO as espresso to 20%+).


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it's not that great for both methods. If it is, why the hell have we waited so long for a burrset which is capable of delivering a grind suitable both for espresso and brewed? Regards, T.


Was sieving with previous grinder (Vario) using steel burr set - excellent pour over results achieved. Produced about a gram and a half more sieved dust than the EK is currently producing. Pour over coffee I'm getting from the EK is as good as from the Vario which was set up solely for pour over.


----------



## Xpenno

dsc said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if it's not that great for both methods. If it is, why the hell have we waited so long for a burrset which is capable of delivering a grind suitable both for espresso and brewed?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


I watched a really interesting video of a talk with Ben Kaminsky and he said that he went and spent some time at the Mazzer test/design facility. He asked them why their burrs created so many fines and they said that they were designed to. He asked them if the intended to address this and they said no because that's how the Italians like them. He said that the with the technology and tolerances that they work to that they could easily reduce fines, they just didn't see the need for it. I guess when you have regular custom from the likes of costa then you care less about the smaller customers. It was an interesting video all the same.

Spence


----------



## Xpenno

MWJB said:


> Kaminsky said in his Nordic roaster talk that he talked to Mazzer about making a similar grinder/burrs, they apparently said they could do it...but won't. It doesn't suit their ethos or what they perceive to be their market (Italian style espresso as opposed to trying to extract lighter roasted SO as espresso to 20%+).


Beat me to it


----------



## Xpenno

If you have an hour to kill then here is the video

[video=youtube;a-YI50dUC7g]


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Guess if you are into dark Italian roasts the presence of more fines adding to body and bitterness is what you're after.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> If you have an hour to kill then here is the video
> 
> [video=youtube;a-YI50dUC7g]


Thanks Spence. Sadly, I have - the hour that is


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Thanks Spence. Sadly, I have - the hour that is


I enjoyed the video but it made me want to buy a refractometer


----------



## dsc

Damn Italians, markets and saying 'no' to invention. No wonder Mazzer haven't released a grinder designed from scratch to be retention-less. I'm sure they can do it, they're just not interested.

Regards,

T.


----------



## Xpenno

dsc said:


> Damn Italians, markets and saying 'no' to invention. No wonder Mazzer haven't released a grinder designed from scratch to be retention-less. I'm sure they can do it, they're just not interested.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


I've dealt with a couple of Italian companies in a different industry and those companies were very Italian focused. They made products for the Italians and they way that they like things and weren't too fussed about anyone else. I quite like the ethos, they make something that they would use and are proud of instead of just trying to earn a quick buck. Maybe they'll have to take note if other companies start to take note and try to improve upon the EK and other grinders positives.


----------



## dsc

Don't get me wrong, I can understand why they are not interested in a very tiny amount of the market. R&D costs monies, big bucks, if you are not going to earn enough pushing things like this forward, why bother?

Mahlkoenig must be laughing now with all the extra orders for the EKs, too bad they will probably stick to what they have and won't change the shape / size of the grinder / burrset.

Regards,

T.


----------



## Xpenno

dsc said:


> Mahlkoenig must be laughing now with all the extra orders for the EKs, too bad they will probably stick to what they have and won't change the shape / size of the grinder / burrset.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Not sure about this, John Gordon tweeted a couple of times that he's spent some time working with Mahlkoenig, maybe there is a collaborative product on the horizon. There is a lot of high-end users with these things and if the company are willing to look at improvements then the future could be very bright indeed.


----------



## Xpenno

dsc said:


> Mahlkoenig must be laughing now with all the extra orders for the EKs, too bad they will probably stick to what they have and won't change the shape / size of the grinder / burrset.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Not sure about this, John Gordon tweeted a couple of times that he's spent some time working with Mahlkoenig, maybe there is a collaborative product on the horizon. There is a lot of high-end users with these things and if the company are willing to look at improvements then the future could be very bright indeed.


----------



## garydyke1

The Mazzer 'cold' is a half-arsed nod to the specialty side of coffee.

The EK isnt perfect but from what I have seen its very workable for getting both excellent espresso, and, superb filter.... from one grinder! You can guarantee there will be an EKxx dedicated for espresso in the next 2-3 years


----------



## dsc

I'm not so sure about 'a lot of high-end users', compared to standard demand from the market we are probably talking hundreds vs. thousands. If the 'hundreds' are pushing to get a product released and the rest of the client base is not fussed about it, guess what decision management will make? Of course Mahl might have a different viewpoint here, but Mazzer proved it doesn't really give a crap (half-arsed nod sounds right).

I'd love to understand burr design more, that would open a whole world as far as experiments go.

Regards,

T.


----------



## Xpenno

dsc said:


> I'm not so sure about 'a lot of high-end users', compared to standard demand from the market we are probably talking hundreds vs. thousands. If the 'hundreds' are pushing to get a product released and the rest of the client base is not fussed about it, guess what decision management will make? Of course Mahl might have a different viewpoint here, but Mazzer proved it doesn't really give a crap (half-arsed nod sounds right).
> 
> I'd love to understand burr design more, that would open a whole world as far as experiments go.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


I agree 100% that there are more Roburs out there in shops that EKs for sure. I probably meant to say high profile users rather than high-end.

With regards to burr design, I wonder if the more widespread availability of 3d printing will help with this? It could mean that many unique burrs could be created and tested without the need for expensive design work and tooling. It could also mean that grinder users could potentially design/print their own without the manufacturer getting involved.


----------



## vikingboy

thanks for confirming the ek43 can match or better the vario set up for filter coffee, thats useful to know and what I was hoping for.


----------



## coffeechap

For those that are worried about the coffee burrs not being up to the job, today I ran Tim wendlebows sitio canaa through the ek43 coffee burr version on a sanremo Verona, wow

First shot 21 grams in 30 grams out over 41 seconds grind setting one mark off finest, no nutation light tamp

So this should in theory taste bitter, but just not the case light acidity, sweet raisins, unreal.

Second shot 21 grams in 30 grams out over 27 seconds four marks off finest, no nutation light tamp, boom, balanced sweet no acidity and these are fairly lightly roasted beans. The ek43 is killing it!


----------



## MWJB

dsc said:


> Don't get me wrong, I can understand why they are not interested in a very tiny amount of the market. R&D costs monies, big bucks, if you are not going to earn enough pushing things like this forward, why bother?
> 
> Mahlkoenig must be laughing now with all the extra orders for the EKs, too bad they will probably stick to what they have and won't change the shape / size of the grinder / burrset.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Well, when you look at definitions for Italian espresso (INEI, Illy, etc), whilst definitions are a little vague and open to a degree of interpretation, they are generally indicating longer drinks & referring to volume in the cup, rather than gold cup style extractions, based on TDS & mass. Not saying the 2 can't overlap, but it generally points to a longer, less concentrated drink, a coarser grind, easier to extract coffee...it's hard to say whether they are being belligerent & disinterested in the "problem", or whether they simply feel that the "problem" is baristas trying to bang a square peg into a round hole to some degree? "Moving forward" could well be seen as moving away from the intrinsic nature of Italian espresso?


----------



## MarkyP

So, hypothetically of course...

if someone was thinking that they needed another grinder to partner/replace their k30, would they go for a HG1 now or save up a bit and go for an EK43?


----------



## dsc

Good comment Mark. I was wondering recently whether maybe we are trying to measure too much with the same stick ie. use all available coffees for espresso and bitch about equipment when stuff just doesn't work.

I think the EK shows that you can do stuff slightly differently (as some people have already noticed), but whether it's better it's debatable. I think some coffees might benefit when ground on the EK, but others will taste better via the big conicals.

Regards,

T.


----------



## coffeechap

dsc said:


> Good comment Mark. I was wondering recently whether maybe we are trying to measure too much with the same stick ie. use all available coffees for espresso and bitch about equipment when stuff just doesn't work.
> 
> I think the EK shows that you can do stuff slightly differently (as some people have already noticed), but whether it's better it's debatable. I think some coffees might benefit when ground on the EK, but others will taste better via the big conicals.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Which at the moment is all hypothetical if you haven't tried the ek43! Mark I would wait until we do the evaluation at the tail end of the month or early next month, I can put the hg1 into the mix as well if you like. Tom is right the Ek43 just redefines the take on espresso, I for one will still be running a conical alongside the Ek with my l1


----------



## MWJB

coffeechap said:


> Which at the moment is all hypothetical if you haven't tried the ek43! Mark I would wait until we do the evaluation at the tail end of the month or early next month, I can put the hg1 into the mix as well if you like. Tom is right the Ek43 just redefines the take on espresso, I for one will still be running a conical alongside the Ek with my l1


Sure but it seems the EK does something different to the other common flat burr grinders too, so doesn't seem as simple as flat v conical (not that I think that was what you were trying to imply).

Will you be measuring yield figures?


----------



## coffeechap

MWJB said:


> Sure but it seems the EK does something different to the other common flat burr grinders too, so doesn't seem as simple as flat v conical (not that I think that was what you were trying to imply).
> 
> Will you be measuring yield figures?


Yes if we can get hold of the equipment.


----------



## MWJB

Cool, ...just need a time machine....so we don't have to wait...? How many sleeps roughly is that?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> I enjoyed the video but it made me want to buy a refractometer


They're really useful little beasts - expensive though. Remember, Glenn has one which he will hire out - worth considering.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> They're really useful little beasts - expensive though. Remember, Glenn has one which he will hire out - worth considering.


Indeed, I just need to a work out when a good time to have it would be to make best use of it. I'd be very interested to see what percentages I'm pulling with my current gear.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Indeed, I just need to a work out when a good time to have it would be to make best use of it. I'd be very interested to see what percentages I'm pulling with my current gear.


Going to put some shots through the refractometer in the next week or so. Deliberately not done so so far in order to avoid information overload. Wanted to see what taste differences emerged first and then see what the figures say. Plus, it's a lot more faff measuring extractions percentages from espresso shots as you have to use syringes and filters.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> They're really useful little beasts - expensive though. Remember, Glenn has one which he will hire out - worth considering.


How much to borrow your later in the year professor savage....


----------



## dsc

coffeechap said:


> Which at the moment is all hypothetical if you haven't tried the ek43! Mark I would wait until we do the evaluation at the tail end of the month or early next month, I can put the hg1 into the mix as well if you like. Tom is right the Ek43 just redefines the take on espresso, I for one will still be running a conical alongside the Ek with my l1


Indeed I think a lot of the EK findings are a bit too fresh, most people only had the grinder for a few weeks now. More testing is needed, this includes blind testing against conicals I'd say.

Regards,

T.


----------



## oracleoftruth

Interesting to see what the ZR-71 will be able to do when it appears!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Indeed I think a lot of the EK findings are a bit too fresh, most people only had the grinder for a few weeks now. More testing is needed, this includes blind testing against conicals I'd say. Regards, T.


Couldn't agree more Tom.


----------



## dsc

oracleoftruth said:


> Interesting to see what the ZR-71 will be able to do when it appears!


We shall see next week hopefully, assuming Dave doesn't get lost on the way









Regards,

T.


----------



## Mrboots2u

People need to try the ek and make their own minds up

the shoot out later will be great fun and provide some interesting opinions

and I have no doubt on the coming weeks there will be a few scattered around the uk with forums members who will be more than willing to entertain anyone who wants to try one .

The shootout will tell you that a certain amount of people prefer their espresso To taste a certain way.

it's like any grinder or machine , try one , have an opinion , experience it .

make your own mind up . .....


----------



## dwalsh1

Nice burr adjustment knob. You need 18 inch biceps for my major.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ive got some more pics and clips form our afternoon unsure if there is interest in seeing them or not ?

I would understand if people are a little EK'd out at the moment

If not ill save for another time


----------



## Soll

I don't mind seeing them, you can never have too much grinder videos


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Ive got some more pics and clips form our afternoon unsure if there is interest in seeing them or not ?
> 
> I would understand if people are a little EK'd out at the moment
> 
> If not ill save for another time


Are you crazy?! what are you waiting for


----------



## Neill

Do it. Do it.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Soll said:


> I don't mind seeing them, you can never have too much grinder videos


Lol sound like we are in some kind of Horror or serial killer forum....

View attachment 5838


----------



## Neill

I would like to see a will it grind thread, like the will it blend videos


----------



## Mrboots2u

Neill said:


> I would like to see a will it grind thread, like the will it blend videos


Ha ha

off you go then and film it please for youtube .......i don't think anyone with a ek and £400 burrs will risk it

Wheres the hamster gone .......


----------



## Neill

Mrboots2u said:


> Ha ha
> 
> off you go then and film it please for youtube .......i don't think anyone with a ek and £400 burrs will risk it
> 
> Wheres the hamster gone .......


I would. I just don't have an ek to do it with.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok here another

a deliberate , attempt to pull a big extraction from the lever


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok here another
> 
> a deliberate , attempt to pull a big extraction from the lever


Crema until the end, drool, looks awesome. Looking forward to trying out coffeeshots in the flesh at some point!


----------



## Mrboots2u

i wouldn't really call it a coffee shot , it was more a more half arsed attempt at one

It did taste very nice though.


----------



## MWJB

"Coffee shots" are around 300g from 18g...you'd be looking at 350g from 21g. If the brew ratio is

But if it tasted good, "you can name it yo mamma if you wanna!". ;-)


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> i wouldn't really call it a coffee shot , it was more a more half arsed attempt at one
> 
> It did taste very nice though.


I get the impression from the comments that it was kind of a half arsed day in general









Either way, looking forward to giving one a thorough going over soon! I might even have to get into brewed coffee which at the moment is a dark art to me


----------



## Mrboots2u

MWJB said:


> "Coffee shots" are around 300g from 18g...you'd be looking at 350g from 21g. If the brew ratio is
> 
> But if it tasted good, "name it yo mamma if you wanna!". ;-)


Can i call it a systemic espresso?

Yeah it tasted good though and not like other espresso id had recently


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> I get the impression from the comments that it was kind of a half arsed day in general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either way, looking forward to giving one a thorough going over soon! I might even have to get into brewed coffee which at the moment is a dark art to me


We were relaxed in out approach ......

Kitchen got trashed.....

The lush was for the mrs before you ask ....


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> We were relaxed in out approach ......
> 
> Kitchen got trashed.....
> 
> The lush was for the mrs before you ask ....


Did oop north go wild an tip the table and Patrick over? I always knew he was a bad egg!


----------



## Mrboots2u

I had drunk so much coffee i was literally walking up the wall taking that photo.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Did oop north go wild an tip the table and Patrick over? I always knew he was a bad egg!


Was I there? It's all a bit of a caffeine fog.


----------



## oop north

Xpenno said:


> Did oop north go wild an tip the table and Patrick over? I always knew he was a bad egg!


Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me! It was bad enough having people come up with dodgy captions for the competition. I'm just not used to the limelight like Messrs Boots and Systemic!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

For this morning's Chemex - backed off one stop from coarsest (setting 11 to 10). Previous setting had been giving a brew time of around four and a half minutes. Going one stop finer took the brew time to six and a half minutes. Yesterday's TDS from 31grms was 1.25% (18.74% extraction) - today it shot up to 1.40% (21% extraction) - same dose and brew water weight (500grms). With previous grinder had been finding that taking up extraction yield blocked out the delicate fruit notes (Ethiopian Kebel Kercha Guji). In today's brew they were still there but, predictably, with more body and a butterscotch finish. Not what I was expecting but not complaining.


----------



## garydyke1

Sounds great.

Any %'s measured for espresso yet?


----------



## Xpenno

oop north said:


> Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me! It was bad enough having people come up with dodgy captions for the competition. I'm just not used to the limelight like Messrs Boots and Systemic!


You'll get used to it hanging around with those two reprobates


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> You'll get used to it hanging around with those two reprobates


Who are you calling a reprobate?

PS. What's a reprobate?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> You'll get used to it hanging around with those two reprobates


I spent an your or so with you and Gary , i think pot kettle springs to mind .....


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Who are you calling a reprobate?
> 
> PS. What's a reprobate?


From the dictionary

1. an unprincipled person

"That Systemic Kid only went out and brought an ek43, he's a total reprobate!"


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Sounds great.
> 
> Any %'s measured for espresso yet?


Will do some tests next week. Been waiting for the burrs to settle down a bit more. Finding that the sweet spot is near or on zero which is fine for me as it also seems to be very forgiving. Can get a pretty decent shot backed off one click or so but there is a marked drop off in body. Don't know if this is related to burrs settling in or the innate properties of the coffee burr set. If it's the latter, might explain why some places in Madchester have said they are going for Turkish - provide more latitude at finest setting.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> From the dictionary
> 
> 1. an unprincipled person
> 
> "That Systemic Kid only went out and brought an ek43, he's a total reprobate!"


Love it, Spence!!


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> I spent an your or so with you and Gary , i think pot kettle springs to mind .....


I can't see anyone arguing here


----------



## coffeechap

so they were in the presence of the reprobate then?


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Will do some tests next week. Been waiting for the burrs to settle down a bit more. Finding that the sweet spot is near or on zero which is fine for me as it also seems to be very forgiving. Can get a pretty decent shot backed off one click or so but there is a marked drop off in body. Don't know if this is related to burrs settling in or the innate properties of the coffee burr set. If it's the latter, might explain why some places in Madchester have said they are going for Turkish - provide more latitude at finest setting.


Can't remember from the short time I spent with coffeechaps EK (mainly because Gary was hogging it) is the adjustment stepless?


----------



## coffeechap

totally stepless spence


----------



## Xpenno

Nice one! Really looking forward to playing more on one. If it's stepless the It should be pretty easy to make it more sensitive if required, no?


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> so they were in the presence of the reprobate then?


I've lost track now, I think at the last count we were all reprobates...


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> I've lost track now, I think at the last count we were all reprobates...


Your house was a den of reprobates


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> I've lost track now, I think at the last count we were all reprobates...


We happy band of reprobates. Systemic likes being a reprobate.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Jesus he talking about himself in the third person now

Boots thinks thats the first sign of mentalism......


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Your house was a den of reprobates


Tell me about it. It's funny how things work out. One minute we're heading to a rave in mosely, the next minute it's "house party at Spence's" luckily the Mrs was in a good mood.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Jesus he talking about himself in the third person now
> 
> Boots thinks thats the first sign of mentalism......


That's four of us at least.


----------



## Xpenno

Drool!


----------



## jeebsy

Where's that from?? Looks to have the mythical PF attachment!


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Your house was a den of reprobates


Never found that blue coat did we?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Where's that from?? Looks to have the mythical PF attachment!


Bulldog Edition


----------



## lookseehear

garydyke1 said:


> Never found that blue coat did we?


But we did look. That's the key here.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Where can we get one of those PF holders ....


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Where can we get one of those PF holders ....


La Marzocco Swift grinder parts bin


----------



## garydyke1

lookseehear said:


> But we did look. That's the key here.


We will find it next time ; )


----------



## jeebsy

lookseehear said:


> But we did look. That's the key here.


Had a bloody good look!


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Where can we get one of those PF holders ....


It looks like a small bit of plastic pipe with an lm gs3 porta filter holder on it. Easy enough? Problem is that the lm part is £75









I've found a cheaper possible alternative but is from a nuova sim group. Would be about £40 and looks the part. The issue is whether or not our baskets would fit. So far we have sage, e61 and L1 groups that I know of (not sure what the l1 group is) so we may not even be able to go for a group buy option. Of course they may all fit as there is no need for a seal to be created as there would in a group head.

Hmmmm choices, choices...


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Had a bloody good look!


Yes, there was a lot of looking, the mrs was even questioning what you were looking for. Those pesky blue coats


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> It looks like a small bit of plastic pipe with an lm gs3 porta filter holder on it. Easy enough? Problem is that the lm part is £75
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've found a cheaper possible alternative but is from a nuova sim group. Would be about £40 and looks the part. The issue is whether or not our baskets would fit. So far we have sage, e61 and L1 groups that I know of (not sure what the l1 group is) so we may not even be able to go for a group buy option. Of course they may all fit as there is no need for a seal to be created as there would in a group head.
> 
> Hmmmm choices, choices...












This looks like it. Thought LF might sell the part from they don't seem to have any LM stuff


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> It looks like a small bit of plastic pipe with an lm gs3 porta filter holder on it. Easy enough? Problem is that the lm part is £75
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've found a cheaper possible alternative but is from a nuova sim group. Would be about £40 and looks the part. The issue is whether or not our baskets would fit. So far we have sage, e61 and L1 groups that I know of (not sure what the l1 group is) so we may not even be able to go for a group buy option. Of course they may all fit as there is no need for a seal to be created as there would in a group head.
> 
> Hmmmm choices, choices...


Spence, can you post the link - like to have a look - cheers.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Spence, can you post the link - like to have a look - cheers.


Will post in a sec. Laptop just rebooted fire windows updates. ..


----------



## Xpenno

Ok here are the bits I've looked at so far.

This is the LM part that looks like the one that JG is using.

http://www.espressoparts.com/MZ_200

Here is a picture of the internals of the LM group, the spare part is essentially bottom section of this and it would just screw/bolt on to pretty much anything. The issue is that it's £75 which is a bit expensive if it doesn't work.










This is the NS part. I've seen it for around £40 all in but I have no idea how it would work with the e61 PF handle. It should be easy enough to fit to something but without one in person I'd have no idea if an E61/L1/Sage filter holder would even fit in it. As I said it would only have to hold the filter, it shouldn't have to make a tight seal.

http://www.espressoparts.com/S_419

I'd be up for some kind of collaborative project to get this working if others are?

Spence


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thanks Spence, will check that out.


----------



## Xpenno

The LM option would be the best for group compatibility, in my opinion, as you can just vary the depth of the gap using a standard group gasket. The NS version seems more structured.


----------



## Xpenno

Maybe we could crowd fund the development of a working unit?


----------



## jeebsy

I'd chip in for a prototype development project aye


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Thanks Spence, will check that out.


Hey Patrick, would you be willing to remove the bagging spout and take some pics of both the spout and where it fits onto the grinder? Some quick dimensions would be cool as well


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Hey Patrick, would you be willing to remove the bagging spout and take some pics of both the spout and where it fits onto the grinder? Some quick dimensions would be cool as well


Definitely - will get on to that this afternoon. Mrs Systemic has roped me into going shopping this morning - give me strength!


----------



## innatelogic

Surely this portafilter holder is a prime application for 3d printing. Since its just to catch grinds I bet the plastic they use would be strong and hard enough. There's a 3d printer shop in Clerkenwell, London where you can get schematics printed. I bet they'd do it over the web too.


----------



## Xpenno

innatelogic said:


> Surely this portafilter holder is a prime application for 3d printing. Since its just to catch grinds I bet the plastic they use would be strong and hard enough. There's a 3d printer shop in Clerkenwell, London where you can get schematics printed. I bet they'd do it over the web too.


I've designed various things for 3d printing and the stuff is pretty strong, I've actually designed a filter holder for another application but I never got it printed in the end as it is an expensive/lengthy process. Once I get the dimensions I'll knock a design up and see what people think and we can take it from there. I would have been nice on this occasion to buy a couple of bits off the shelf and bolt them together though.


----------



## garydyke1

Wow, are you lot all getting EK43s then?!!?


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Wow, are you lot all getting EK43s then?!!?


im making a grinder out of spoons

it will be amazing


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Wow, are you lot all getting EK43s then?!!?


30th birthday present to myself!


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Wow, are you lot all getting EK43s then?!!?


No, I'm getting one of these instead

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/mahlkonig-tanzania


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> No, I'm getting one of these instead
> 
> http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/mahlkonig-tanzania


Lol ! Are you around after 2 ?!


----------



## coffeechap

jeebsy said:


> 30th birthday present to myself!


At leanest one of you is honest then!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Survived shopping - just!

Just stripped the bag clip assembly off the EK - so wonderfully basic!

View attachment 5856


Diameter of chute's throat is 2cm

View attachment 5857


Plate measures 7.5cm by 5.3cm with screw holes measuring 4.2cm by 3.7cm. Screw holes are 0.8cm in diameter.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Survived shopping - just!
> 
> Just stripped the bag clip assembly off the EK - so wonderfully basic!
> 
> View attachment 5856
> 
> 
> Diameter of chute's throat is 2cm
> 
> View attachment 5857
> 
> 
> Plate measures 7.5cm by 5.3cm with screw holes measuring 4.2cm by 3.7cm. Screw holes are 0.8cm in diameter.


Nice one mate! It looks like the exit hole in the bottom of the grinder is smaller that the one in the bag shoot, is that correct?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Throat diameter on the plastic plate is 4cm - double the exit chute on the grinder.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Throat diameter on the plastic plate is 4cm - double the exit chute on the grinder.


Plenty of room for movement in the design them. should be pretty easy to knock something up, just depends how nice it needs to look


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Here's a picture of puck to demonstrate evenness of extraction . EK was set to finest - 20grms in - 40grms out in 27secs. Basket used was an IMS 14-20grm.

View attachment 5861


Beans were Atkinson's Thalia blend - medium roast level so it's easier to detect extraction unevenness - if it's there

You *can* see a darker patch - far left at the edge of the basket but I would guess this is accounted for by the fact that the holes in the basket begin around 2mm from the basket's edge. The rest of the puck is as even as you could want.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Plenty of room for movement in the design them. should be pretty easy to knock something up, just depends how nice it needs to look


Brilliant Spence - can't wait to see a prototype. Being able to dose straight into the portafilter would be the icing on the cake.


----------



## jeebsy

coffeechap said:


> At leanest one of you is honest then!


I know, age is just a number


----------



## jeebsy

I'm in bulldog just now and they've taken the pf mod off. Said it was more hassle than it was worth as it would retain a bit and they lost the thwacker. Although grinding in to a vessel then pouring in to the pf is an extra step it works better.

Got a 'coffee shot' of Juan ticona caranvi cooling as I type and there's a special iced shot of kocherre on the way. Lots of EK chat.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thanks for that jeesby - really helpful. Guess it's 'carry on thwacking'.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

PS - what burr set are they using and apols in advance if this has already been answered but I'm busy making bread and haven't time to check back through the thread. Well, that's my excuse.


----------



## jeebsy

Turkish delight. Their pf mod had an anti static buzzer they had to push after grinding but even that didn't quite work out.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Brilliant Spence - can't wait to see a prototype. Being able to dose straight into the portafilter would be the icing on the cake.


When you're mashing the chute twacker, are you just clearing grinds from the inside of that chute or is it the whole thing?

Would you be able to try grinding (and videoing if possible) a small amount of beans without the chute attached to see what we're up against with spray etc..? I imagine that you'd need a big bowl underneath or something


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> I'm in bulldog just now and they've taken the pf mod off. Said it was more hassle than it was worth as it would retain a bit and they lost the thwacker. Although grinding in to a vessel then pouring in to the pf is an extra step it works better.
> 
> Got a 'coffee shot' of Juan ticona caranvi cooling as I type and there's a special iced shot of kocherre on the way. Lots of EK chat.


Awesome, can't wait for the review









Could you get a pic of the PF mod?


----------



## jeebsy

18g of kocherre in - 140 out in 47 secs - cooled in 140g ice. So tasty. Drinking it like juice!


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> Awesome, can't wait for the review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you get a pic of the PF mod?


They're not using it any more and either don't know more details about it or are keeping their cards close to their chest.

Coffee shot was a bit meh, this iced kocherre is the bomb though


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> When you're mashing the chute twacker, are you just clearing grinds from the inside of that chute or is it the whole thing?
> 
> Would you be able to try grinding (and videoing if possible) a small amount of beans without the chute attached to see what we're up against with spray etc..? I imagine that you'd need a big bowl underneath or something


That sounds like fun - will get on to it.


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> They're not using it any more and either don't know more details about it or are keeping their cards close to their chest.
> 
> Coffee shot was a bit meh, this iced kocherre is the bomb though


Nom!

Shame about the mod, Gary just popped in and we came to the conclusion that we're potentially over thinking things a bit. Need some hands on time to be sure though, can't wait


----------



## jeebsy

Yeah, haven't even used one yet and already finding problems to solve. Like you say need to get some time on the bench first.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> .......... I imagine that you'd need a big bowl underneath or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...............


.........Spence.....remind me not to listen to you

Ran EK on finest grind setting without the basket attachment......result is hilarious - uploading it now.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> .........Spence.....remind me not to listen to you
> 
> Ran EK on finest grind setting without the basket attachment......result is hilarious - uploading it now.


Can't wait


----------



## The Systemic Kid

What happens when you remove the EK's bag shute? - bit of spray plus tad of static!






Think I'm going to refit the bag chute.....

.......and not listen to you ever again Spence


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> What happens when you remove the EK's bag shute? - bit of spray plus tad of static!


This is great...could be first in a series of "Why do..."...EK43s have bag chutes/you have to tie a bungee cord to a fixed object high above the ground/you always saw off a branch that you are sitting on at the side farthest from the tree...;-)

We always tend to learn more from our mistakes than our successes.


----------



## ronsil

Now that's funny!









I'll take that as a warning


----------



## The Systemic Kid

MWJB said:


> We always tend to learn more from our mistakes than our successes.


diplomatically put, Mark - but I get the subtext


----------



## MWJB

The Systemic Kid said:


> diplomatically put, Mark - but I get the subtext


Trust me, I speak as one who has done a lot of "learning". One of the learningest experiences was a school assembly, for some reason I was the last one in (again...), all the chairs were taken, some desks were also crammed with pupils, there was one clear desk in the corner of the room. With an encouraging "C'mon Burness find a seat!", I dashed over to the free desk & planted my derrier, whilst picking up a curious piece of wood from on top of the desk...as I was upended and slid backwards, settling trapped between desk top & the wall, with just my lower legs protruding into the hall, I suddenly recognised the 'curious piece of wood', that I was still intently perusing, to be a severed school desk leg...


----------



## garydyke1

Those Germans are not stupid.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> What happens when you remove the EK's bag shute? - bit of spray plus tad of static!


Genius .............................

Now can we try putting stuff other than coffee through it an filming it ?


----------



## coffeechap

lets wait till you get yours boots


----------



## drude

Your curtains?


----------



## coffeechap

good idea pete


----------



## coffeechap

wonder how long boots would take


----------



## drude

Boots is mr video man - if anyone is suited to a series of 'will it grind in an EK43?' vids, it's him


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> wonder how long boots would take


What to grind myself or my curtains ....


----------



## Mrboots2u

drude said:


> Boots is mr video man - if anyone is suited to a series of 'will it grind in an EK43?' vids, it's him


In the name of science I would

As long as you all pay for a new set of burrs.....


----------



## drude

Just get a set of stunt burrs - maybe even an EKK - one side for coffee, one for curiosity


----------



## Mrboots2u

Only this forum could come up with the term " stunt burrs " love it


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Maybe Glenn should add a section for soft furnishings grinding. It could catch on. I've got my eye on a couple of cushions.....if only I had some stunt burs!


----------



## coffeechap

think i might have to fire up the wood grinding beast again


----------



## coffeechap

i dont think it would take long to grind boots in the ek43


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> think i might have to fire up the wood grinding beast again


Now that was a good clip........

does it produce a lot of fines though


----------



## coffeechap

well the coffee would not be as good as the k10!!


----------



## coffeechap

send me a curtain down boots the beast will definitely destroy it


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> send me a curtain down boots the beast will definitely destroy it


Jesus more than my life is worth .

I was asked about the living room curtains today , I didn't give an enthusiast enought answer apaprentlyand


----------



## coffeechap

oh alright then your right arm will do!


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> oh alright then your right arm will do!


Then she bought me some full fat milk as a " treat "

i think she's trying to finish me off ....

id rather keep good of my arm thanks .


----------



## coffeechap

bet your cholesterol is not as high as mine


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> bet your cholesterol is not as high as mine


Wanna bet .........l

should start a new thread. Cholestrol champion ......


----------



## coffeechap

yep bet you a tenner....


----------



## coffeechap

i win.............


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Is there some kind of official Cholesterol test that can be taken? Winner gets a copy of the 5:2 diet book...to follow or to put into their grinder.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> What happens when you remove the EK's bag shute? - bit of spray plus tad of static!


Ahhh, errr sorry about that! Looks like you had the grind too coarse, tighten it up and give it another spin


----------



## Xpenno

urbanbumpkin said:


> Is there some kind of official Cholesterol test that can be taken? Winner gets a copy of the 5:2 diet book...to follow or to put into their grinder.


I managed to get mine down by following this diet.

[video=youtube;1NjTWvl8x-U]


----------



## Mrboots2u

Mmmm you can't beat mystery meat ,,,,,


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Mmmm you can't beat mystery meat ,,,,,


Yes, that's my favourite too!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

More testing: Ran the EK at setting 8 - 3 clicks off coarsest setting for a Chemex brew. 31grms of Ethiopian Kebel Kercha Guji - 385grms out in 6min 15sec. TDS 1.54% giving an extraction yield of 19.1%. Had expected the anticipated increase in body/mouthfeel to drown out the delicate aroma and taste of this wonderful bean - wrong! Everything was there. Grinding finer on previous grinder led to a predictable blocking up of the flavour profile - not so with the EK. With today's brew, everything was there - flavour, sweetness, body and a hint of toffee apple caramel bitterness at the end. Looks as if the EK is going to be every bit as good a poor over grinder it is for espresso.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Dropped the dose from 31grms to 29grms - everything else the same. 385grms out in 5mins 10secs with a TDS 1.4% giving an extraction yield of 18.6% yet the flavour and finish of today's brew were as good if not better than yesterday's - loads of front end fruit with a long, long toffee apple sweet/bitter finish.


----------



## Xpenno

Sounds like you're getting on well with the EK! Had an AeroPress last night with some square mile ground on an EK. Enjoyed it, loads of fruit and really clean taste.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Certainly brings out the fruit in citrussy beans for sure and manages to hang on to the body too which is impressive. Going to focus some attention on espresso this week to see if the coffee burrs really can hit 22% plus extraction. That will be a stern test - fingers crossed.


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Sounds like you're getting on well with the EK! Had an AeroPress last night with some square mile ground on an EK. Enjoyed it, loads of fruit and really clean taste.


If you enjoyed that (finger the air) 12% extraction you'll love a properly dialled in one


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> If you enjoyed that (finger the air) 12% extraction you'll love a properly dialled in one


Lol, you know me, I like just about anything.


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> If you enjoyed that (finger the air) 12% extraction you'll love a properly dialled in one


The gary d little finger refractometer.

The next stage if human dveleopemt. ..


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> The gary d little finger refractometer.
> 
> The next stage if human dveleopemt. ..


Patrick PLEASE test my skills. Kochere at grind setting 9.5. 18 grams in aeropress with 225g water, no stirring. 30 seconds steep, flip and plunge for 30 seconds till hisses. Oh and ensure most of the coffee is high and dry , stuck to the bung.

My guess was 12%...13 at a push


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Patrick PLEASE test my skills. Kochere at grind setting 9.5. 18 grams in aeropress with 225g water, no stirring. 30 seconds steep, flip and plunge for 30 seconds till hisses. Oh and ensure most of the coffee is high and dry , stuck to the bung.
> 
> My guess was 12%...13 at a push


Sadly Gary, Boots necked the last shot of Kochere last week so I can't run any through the Aeropress. Have got the following HasBean offerings - some Ethiopian Kebel Kercha Guji (currently my favourite) and a full bag of Costa Rica Carlos Arrieta which I am looking forward to testing through the Chemex and as an espresso.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Sadly Gary, Boots necked the last shot of Kochere last week so I can't run any through the Aeropress. Have got the following HasBean offerings - some Ethiopian Kebel Kercha Guji (currently my favourite) and a full bag of Costa Rica Carlos Arrieta which I am looking forward to testing through the Chemex and as an espresso.


Give the Guji a crack, similar profile coffee ; )


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Give the Guji a crack, similar profile coffee ; )


Agree - will put some through the Aeropress later (Mrs Systemic is, as I type this, having a long chin wag with a friend and has not responded to my heavy handed hints that I want the kitchen to myself for a bit of serious caffeine experimentation). Not on is it??


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Agree - will put some through the Aeropress later (Mrs Systemic is, as I type this, having a long chin wag with a friend and has not responded to my heavy handed hints that I want the kitchen to myself for a bit of serious caffeine experimentation). Not on is it??


Just fire up the EK and suggest mincemeat for tea.....


----------



## AndyS

The Systemic Kid said:


> Going to focus some attention on espresso this week to see if the coffee burrs really can hit 22% plus extraction. That will be a stern test - fingers crossed.


Certainly they can with well-rested coffee, VST filters and a fairly "long" brew ratio (45-50%).


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Just fire up the EK and suggest mincemeat for tea.....


Mincemeat for tea? - that would be me!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

AndyS said:


> Certainly they can with well-rested coffee, VST filters and a fairly "long" brew ratio (45-50%).


Thanks for that Andy, will try the VSTs but just made flat whites for Mrs Systemic and friend. Used an IMS basket for one and VST for the other. Dose was 20grms in both. The VST was an 18grm basket so it was over capacity. Extractions were noticeably better on the IMS in terms of evenness when breaking apart the puck and looking for light/dark areas which were apparent on the VST. Will try dosing the VST at stipulated dose and see what difference this makes. So many variable!!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Th
View attachment 5893
tds please gary....


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Th
> View attachment 5893
> tds please gary....


1.1......14.1%


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Wow - that's amazing. Can you teach me how to do that??


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Th
> View attachment 5893
> tds please gary....


Hmmm - where are you drinking that Boots? And what is it??


----------



## garydyke1

My guesses are +/- 100% accuracy

I cannot be proven wrong until you follow the recipe for us and publish the results

Its great I can say setting 9.5 and you can do the same, then measure the results and relay them here . haha


----------



## dsc

I have to ask, is that Bovril in that cup? looks pretty murky...









Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

Actually on reflection (as I actually tasted one yesterday)

1.02% TDS / 14.9%


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> My guesses are +/- 100% accuracy
> 
> I cannot be proven wrong until you follow the recipe for us and publish the results
> 
> Its great I can say setting 9.5 and you can do the same, then measure the results and relay them here . haha


What brew temp water would you like?? Just to be 100% scientific


----------



## garydyke1

93 Celsius and aero plunged into a rattle ware jug , then decanted into a glass server . Lol


----------



## Mrboots2u

Yep its kochere aeropresss. I couldbt convince him to make an ek espresso. Even though I was the only one in tjet shop. Plus guy refused to drink his long black when in there as he wouldn't give him sugar. So he went to Starbucks. ....


----------



## garydyke1

...and two people left because he was talking to me


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> 93 Celsius and aero plunged into a rattle ware jug , then decanted into a glass server . Lol


93c - good call but can't replicate the rattle ware jug so the experiment is FUBAR unless a Motta jug is within SCAE rules then we might just be on!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> ...and two people left because he was talking to me


Are you the one Boots said went to Starbucks then??


----------



## garydyke1

Imagine a tablespoon of sugar in a redbrick americano!?


----------



## dsc

Mrboots2u said:


> Plus guy refused to drink his long black when in there as he wouldn't give him sugar.





garydyke1 said:


> Imagine a tablespoon of sugar in a redbrick americano!?


To be honest if the customer wants to drink the coffee he / she just purchased with a jar of sugar he / she should be allowed. I never understood the whole approach of refusing people sugar / milk / etc. just because that's not how a coffee should be consumed.

Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

dsc said:


> To be honest if the customer wants to drink the coffee he / she just purchased with a jar of sugar he / she should be allowed. I never understood the whole approach of refusing people sugar / milk / etc. just because that's not how a coffee should be consumed.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Yep. There is a way to approach it which is a little less forced.


----------



## dsc

Yup, a light nod in the right direction normally does this, it's similar to espresso (not to everyone's tastes), I've seen places serve a free espresso with any drink ordered just to see if the person likes it. I'd say suggest first, don't force or refuse to do stuff as you'll end up pissing people off and effectively loosing business.

Regards,

T.


----------



## garydyke1

You can say ''this type of coffee taste better without sugar'' and explain why, inviting them to try, and, have some in a drawer incase the customer still asks. Flat refusing isn't a good approach, especially for a fledgling business


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Patrick PLEASE test my skills. Kochere at grind setting 9.5. 18 grams in aeropress with 225g water, no stirring. 30 seconds steep, flip and plunge for 30 seconds till hisses. Oh and ensure most of the coffee is high and dry , stuck to the bung.
> 
> My guess was 12%...13 at a push


OK. Ran the test: EK set to 9.5; 18grms weighed dose into Aeropress; 225grms of water heated to 93c measured with a thermoprobe; Aeropress paper filter used; 30secs steep (no stir); flipped and plunged in 30secs till first hiss. Resulting brew was then filtered through a VST syringe filter to ensure the measurement sample did not retain any residue and contaminate the TDS reading.

Now for the results.......12%-13% extraction yield......nah

But I will give you the tasting notes: citrussy giving way to lemon peel dryness - not in anyway unpleasant and a strong toffee apple bitter sweet finish that I can still taste 20mins later. Impressive.


----------



## garydyke1

Did you do the all important ''ensure most of the coffee is high and dry , stuck to the bung'' ?

What was the actual TDS etc.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Did you do the all important ''ensure most of the coffee is high and dry , stuck to the bung'' ?
> 
> What was the actual TDS etc.


Used a bottle neck kettle to do the pour into the Aeropress - had to resist the temptation to give it a stir.


----------



## garydyke1

What water was used ? They moaned about the quality of the water


----------



## The Systemic Kid

View attachment 5894
View attachment 5894


Readings taken from refractometer 30secs apart.

How about that! TDS came in bang on 1.3%. Extraction yield was 17.58%.

Data processed through VST's Mojotogo which includes the opportunity to set CO2 and moisture content. Thanks to Mark (MWJB) for guidance on how best to set these two parameters.


----------



## garydyke1

I would mind a VST Refrac. Group buy , anyone?!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> What water was used ? They moaned about the quality of the water


Ashbeck water used.


----------



## garydyke1

Im suprised (but delighted) you pulled that off with the aero and that grind setting.

In summary the EK is amazing (in the right hands with the right water)


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Im suprised (but delighted) you pulled that off with the aero and that grind setting.
> 
> In summary the EK is amazing (in the right hands with the right water)


Back to the drawing board for refractofinger v1....


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Back to the drawing board for refractofinger v1....


No way was that kochere anywhere near gold cup standard


----------



## Mrboots2u

Refractofinger appear to be a Google whack ,therefore I am trademarking it with immediate effect.

When Gary has some serious car accident we can rebuild him as some kind a robocop barista with the refractofinger included.

"You have 25 seconds to extract ...."


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> When Gary has some serious car accident we can rebuild him as some kind a robocop barista with the refractofinger included.
> 
> "You have 25 seconds to extract ...."


Yeah....but from where exactly??


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Yeah....but from where exactly??


robobarista is clearly pump driven isn't the design posted , therefore timed from when he pumps ....


----------



## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> No way was that kochere anywhere near gold cup standard


A couple of % short of ideal, at least.


----------



## AndyS

Just in case, after reading the thread title, anyone had doubts:


----------



## vikingboy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Thanks to Mark (MWJB) for guidance on how best to set these two parameters.


can you elaborate please?


----------



## coffeechap

I have ordered two of these that should be here at end of April and only want one of them, so if you are in the market for one at substantially less than anywhere on the web then get in touch?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

vikingboy said:


> can you elaborate please?


In VST's coffeeTools software, there's a section where you can tweak settings for C02 and moisture content. Unfortunately, the instructions don't tell you what to set them to. Mark kindly provided some guidance on settings for these two parameters.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Ran Atkinson's Thalia blend through the EK using: LM Strada 17grm, VST 18grm and IMS 14-20grm. EK set to finest setting - Strada dosed at 17grm with VST and IMS dosed at 18grm. Extracted at 2:1. All shots came in around 25-27secs. Pucks checked afterwards for any channelling. Got my wife to blind taste the three shots. She, like me, found the Strada pull to be rank - sour as hell. Have heard that a bad shot on the EK can be really bad and this was. VST was OK but the IMS was the best of the bunch - fruity but not acidic. Body/mouthfeel less pronounced compared to shots off the HG One but more definition. Guess that's the defining characteristic of the EK.


----------



## Louche

coffeechap said:


> I have ordered two of these that should be here at end of April and only want one of them, so if you are in the market for one at substantially less than anywhere on the web then get in touch?


I might be interested - could you email me details (price, burrset, colour)?


----------



## JKK

coffeechap said:


> I have ordered two of these that should be here at end of April and only want one of them, so if you are in the market for one at substantially less than anywhere on the web then get in touch?


Hello

You mean the TDS meter ?

-JKK


----------



## The Systemic Kid

JKK said:


> Hello
> 
> You mean the TDS meter ?
> 
> -JKK


Think CC is referring to an EK?


----------



## coffeechap

Oh sorry didn't read where the thread was going, it does refer to an ek43


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Ran Atkinson's Thalia blend through the EK using: LM Strada 17grm, VST 18grm and IMS 14-20grm. EK set to finest setting - Strada dosed at 17grm with VST and IMS dosed at 18grm. Extracted at 2:1. All shots came in around 25-27secs. Pucks checked afterwards for any channelling. Got my wife to blind taste the three shots. She, like me, found the Strada pull to be rank - sour as hell. Have heard that a bad shot on the EK can be really bad and this was. VST was OK but the IMS was the best of the bunch - fruity but not acidic. Body/mouthfeel less pronounced compared to shots off the HG One but more definition. Guess that's the defining characteristic of the EK.


Hmmm. Might have to give that basket another go. Seems like a few people around here, like your good self, are getting favourable results with it. My first few attempts resulted in pretty bad looking and tasting shots so it's probably just me. It took a while to get to grips with the vst, maybe I've just been reprogrammed.


----------



## JKK

coffeechap said:


> I have ordered two of these that should be here at end of April and only want one of them, so if you are in the market for one at substantially less than anywhere on the web then get in touch?


If Mr Systematic is correct:

I'll take one, if it's not white !

I can't PM yet [not enough posts]

But maybe you can PM me with details.

Thanks

-JKK


----------



## vikingboy

Im getting preferable results from my IMS basket over VSTs too, took minimal dialling in from VST. Looking at them under a loupe you can see the IMS is manufactured to a higher standard, the VST looks rough in comparison.


----------



## JKK

coffeechap said:


> Oh sorry didn't read where the thread was going, it does refer to an ek43


Hello

Sorry can you PM me your email.

Does the price include VAT ?

-JKK


----------



## Xpenno

vikingboy said:


> Im getting preferable results from my IMS basket over VSTs too, took minimal dialling in from VST. Looking at them under a loupe you can see the IMS is manufactured to a higher standard, the VST looks rough in comparison.


Ok, played with the IMS again this evening using Has Bean David Vilca Washed, two shots, both within "good shot times", each started with a very slight doughnut, tripod pour each time, first shot had a worm hole, both tasted great









Are you guys preparing the grinds before tamping? Tamping onto a flat bed? With a flat tamper? Are you pre-infusing?

Cheers

Spence


----------



## garydyke1

Tripod pours , I remember those with the Flat based tamper, always edged me finer on the grind (perhaps why they recon a higher % extraction)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Always infuse Spence - 5-6secs. Currently seeing if there's any difference between flat, convex or plan2convex tampers. Am nutating though. Not paying much if any attention to levelling, evening out the grinds in the basket prior to tamping. Pours are coming out very evenly.


----------



## gryphon

I'm infuse 10s. and nutating as well. IMS with 17-17.5g and pours coming out evenly for me too. With VST less evenly but still good. Systemic have

you compared both with your refract.? Do you see a difference about preinfusion?


----------



## coffeechap

ek43 = less effort on tamping resulting in fantastic pours nearly ever time!


----------



## gman147

My pours are better with the IMS than with VST. Also nutating so will pull a few shots not nutating so see resultant pours.

Although the spent pucks don't dump out clean, they break up with the IMS. Odd.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

gryphon said:


> I'm infuse 10s. and nutating as well. IMS with 17-17.5g and pours coming out evenly for me too. With VST less evenly but still good. Systemic have
> 
> you compared both with your refract.? Do you see a difference about preinfusion?


Refracted a few shots using beans from a local roaster comparing tampers. Nothing remarkable in terms of figures. Best extraction yield I managed was a fraction under 20% lowest was 19%. Having said that, just opened some Londinium Guatamalan - intensely strong flavour but no bitterness at all. Going to check it out with the refractometer tomorrow.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

gman147 said:


> Although the spent pucks don't dump out clean, they break up with the IMS. Odd.


Finding IMS pucks come out fully intact.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Always infuse Spence - 5-6secs. Currently seeing if there's any difference between flat, convex or plan2convex tampers. Am nutating though. Not paying much if any attention to levelling, evening out the grinds in the basket prior to tamping. Pours are coming out very evenly.


Thanks guys!

I'm nutating, I have no problems with the VST which is supposed to be less forgiving, I must be trying to break all of the rules, just not in a good way


----------



## Charliej

The Systemic Kid said:


> Finding IMS pucks come out fully intact.


Me too with the IMS screen and baskets they're coming out bone dry and in 1 piece whatever I have preinfusion set to both time and pressure.


----------



## Xpenno

gman147 said:


> My pours are better with the IMS than with VST. Also nutating so will pull a few shots not nutating so see resultant pours.
> 
> Although the spent pucks don't dump out clean, they break up with the IMS. Odd.


I get one solid puck but a small amount always remains in the basket. Not as clean as the VST at present.


----------



## Xpenno

I'll have to try pre-infusion tomorrow and see if that helps. I presume tripod pours come from a dead spot in the centre of the puck? Might try backing off the nutation and seeing what happens.


----------



## gman147

Charliej said:


> Me too with the IMS screen and baskets they're coming out bone dry and in 1 piece whatever I have preinfusion set to both time and pressure.


Must check my tamp pressure. Not done that for a good while.


----------



## gman147

IMS screen and new gasket on order. Await its delivery. Then a descale is next on my to-do list.


----------



## Charliej

gman147 said:


> Must check my tamp pressure. Not done that for a good while.


I did mean pre-infusion pressure but I guess keeping a check on how hard you tamp is always a good move, at the moment I'm letting the RR55 leave me a nice mound of coffee in the portafilter and then letting the weight of the brass Goldfinger settle the mound and a gentle nutate with the tamper weight only again and then bean dependent tamping straight down, and then polishing with the tamper weight only again. The brass Goldfinger weighing 836g helps with this but took some getting used to at 1st, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to drop it on an unshod foot.

Which screen did you order Graham the integrated or woven?


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 6055


Lesser spotted white EK in the wild


__
http://instagr.am/p/lynCXASG_o/


----------



## vikingboy

looks nice in white....


----------



## ronsil

So, thats where my Machine went....


----------



## oop north

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 6055
> 
> 
> Lesser spotted white EK in the wild
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/lynCXASG_o/


Think I will show my wife this picture so she can realise LI + SJ = pretty reasonable!


----------



## jeebsy

vikingboy said:


> looks nice in white....


Just realised it's going to clash with my kettle and toaster!



ronsil said:


> So, thats where my Machine went....


Did you go for white?


----------



## garydyke1

The mini hoppers are quite a dark smoked grey (if you ordered one), it looks very cool atop a white EK.


----------



## ronsil

jeebsy said:


> Did you go for white?


Yes it will match my new kitchen in this space:

View attachment 6056


Would consider renting out at nominal rent for unknown period.







- Space that is not the EK43


----------



## garydyke1

These


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Where can they be bought, Gary and how much are they??


----------



## garydyke1

Take it to PM


----------



## vikingboy

PM me details too please, thx


----------



## indend007

Here EKK43 is equipped with turkish & coffee burr.

Yeh, it's beauty beast in cafe setup.

I was joined a test EKK43 to shot profiling and some grind speed mod(cause somedays after, I'll have to use it in EU 50hz).

It's made for use frequency in 60hz 1740 RPM.

We tried to use for pre-experiment more slow RPM about 1400 RPM with 50hz(via frequency converter), but it's impossible.

It has centrifugal switch for 60hz, and Mahl said that have to exchange this centrifugal switch 50hz.

Anyone have an idea, how to exchange this centrifugal switch?


----------



## garydyke1

Ive decided white is badass! With a 3FE dial on .... hhhmmmmm


----------



## dsc

indend007 said:


> Anyone have an idea, how to exchange this centrifugal switch?


Ask them for an electrical diagram showing how the switch is wired in the power circuit. Normally something like this can be bypassed / shortened out.

Regards,

T.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Put some Londinium Rwandan through the EK for a couple of flat whites. Grind looked coarse even near finest setting so tamped real hard. 3 sec pre-infusion and a pour that lasted no more than 15secs for a lungo. Should have been rubbish but cut through the milk like a knife leaving a liquorice aftertaste. Will increase the dose to 19grms to see if I can stretch the the extraction.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Put some Londinium Rwandan through the EK for a couple of flat whites. Grind looked coarse even near finest setting so tamped real hard. 3 sec pre-infusion and a pour that lasted no more than 15secs for a lungo. Should have been rubbish but cut through the milk like a knife leaving a liquorice aftertaste. Will increase the dose to 19grms to see if I can stretch the the extraction.


Don't post things like this! Gary will be having kittens


----------



## Xpenno

Not sure on the exact version but Callum was pulling shots of the Rwandan at the LCF on Saturday and it wasn't running that fast. Maybe it's time to recalibrate? I think he was around 3 on his custom dial which would suggest that he wasn't that close to the zero point.


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> Ive decided white is badass! With a 3FE dial on .... hhhmmmmm


Group buy on 3FE dials?


----------



## Mrboots2u

I've got a CB1 dial


----------



## tribs

Mrboots2u said:


> I've got a CB1 dial


Is it a bit like indend007's?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Not sure on the exact version but Callum was pulling shots of the Rwandan at the LCF on Saturday and it wasn't running that fast. Maybe it's time to recalibrate? I think he was around 3 on his custom dial which would suggest that he wasn't that close to the zero point.


Re-calibrated the EK recently after advice from Callum. His EK make the same noise as mine which is kind of reassuring. Having backed off the burrs as per manual 10 degrees from chirping, so there's no ringing noise, it comes and goes which has got me scratching my head. That said, the flat white was great and gave me a humungous caffeine high which I still have two hours later. Going to put some Rwandan through the HG One by way of comparison.


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> Group buy on 3FE dials?


Already got one ; )


----------



## Neill

garydyke1 said:


> Already got one ; )


Did you see the new colours tho?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/453611696767385601


----------



## jeebsy

http://www.3fe.com/index.php/shop/merchandise/ek-43-dial/

Available for order now...i like the black but a green and white EK would be quality. Might need to order both.


----------



## jeebsy

...And both have been ordered.


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> Already got one ; )


Ditto me too - I've already got mine. They're excellent in use. Easy to fit.

Prefer the black & white with my white machine


----------



## Daren

£18. I was just about to buy one until I saw "EK43 Grinder not included". Spoil sports


----------



## jeebsy

Daren said:


> I was just about to buy one until I saw "EK43 Grinder not included". Spoil sports


All I need is an EK to go along with all this paraphernalia now.


----------



## ronsil

...patience, patience.....Its really worth the wait, you'll see!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> ...patience, patience.....Its really worth the wait, you'll see!


Ron, has yours arrived? If so - how's it working?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> ...And both have been ordered.


Cool! Was suprised to see no option of white/light grey, considering the photo contained them


----------



## ronsil

The Systemic Kid said:


> Ron, has yours arrived? If so - how's it working?


Wher've you been??. I have been posting my early experiences on here in a thread called "We have Lift-Off..."

I'm now into my third week & enjoying the results of every press of that green button (which I dislike intensely) see my previous notes about that.

As I've said so many times machines as such do nothing for me. The results are what matter & I am finding the EK43 a major step upwards.

I've put about 15 kilos through up to now, got rid of all my old stock of my own beans & Rave kindly helped out with another couple of kilos of theirs. Thanks Rob.

I zeroed the burrs twice in the time but now I think they've settled down. Getting very confident with the espresso results but still working on the 'coffee shots'.

I've found the following essentials required for the EK. The cocktail shaker base recommended by you, the better dial with much more detail from Ireland & the one-shot pots from Callum.

Finding no retention but do get a bit of debris dust adhering to the shaker flask. Working on that one!.

The Machine has fitted in so easily into my coffee life. My experiences with the Versalab helped me no end with this.


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Cool! Was suprised to see no option of white/light grey, considering the photo contained them


Spence was chasing them up about the white-ish one on Twitter last night


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> Wher've you been??.


Good question Disoriented by a week away in the middle of nowhere!


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> ...And both have been ordered.


I've just ordered a silver one! I emailed them about the white one in the pic and they replied saying it was silver. Think it should work well on the Black EK


----------



## coffeechap

Nice, think I might get the blue one to go with my Blue hand blown glass hopper!!!


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> Nice, think I might get the blue one to go with my Blue hand blown glass hopper!!!


Sounds like you're going full custom shop!


----------



## coffeechap

thinking about a custon paint job as well !! (got to be different)


----------



## coffeechap

might be able to get some of the glass hoppers made up, they wont be cheap though


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> thinking about a custon paint job as well !! (got to be different)


Hoops?

.........


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> thinking about a custon paint job as well !! (got to be different)


Are you going Santos base? I kind of like the big version now I've seen a few.


----------



## Xpenno

Expensive glass hopper is not really an option for me as the Mrs would end up smashing it at some point....


----------



## coffeechap

I am sticking ith the tall slender version..


----------



## coffeechap

If anyone is interested I will have one of these surplus to requirements at the end of may, coffee burr set in black, poss white!


----------



## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> Hoops?
> 
> .........


Getting a green dial so I might hoop mine up. The white looks pretty classy as is though. Maybe get it sprayed grey if the motor comes out


----------



## Neill

Is it a bit sad that I'd like to see one with a Star Wars themed spray job. Like and AT-AT or r2d2?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Will recall I re-zeroed the burrs not long after getting it as, at or near zero, there seemed to be some chirping. Trouble was, even after resetting, the chirping came back. After consulting Callum, had suspicions that the noise I had put down to chirping wasn't burr contact but I didn't want to take any chances wrecking a set of burrs so decided to strip it down and have a look inside.

Ridiculously easy to work on - remove two screws holding front plate on - remove the holding pin and slide out the front burr. To great relief - no sign the burrs had been making contact so cleaned off the crud - greased the carrier shaft and replaced everything. Expected the burr adjustment to have been knocked off by stripping apart but I had to turn the adjustment nut two full rotations before the burrs began to make contact with genuine tell tale chirping.

Before cleaning:

View attachment 6227
View attachment 6228


After cleaning:

View attachment 6229
View attachment 6230


----------



## jeebsy

How's the zero point in relation to extraction after that? Can you get the motor out?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> How's the zero point in relation to extraction after that? Can you get the motor out?


It was around midnight when I stripped it out jeesby so didn't pull any shots afterwards for obvious reasons. Out all day today so no time to play but will be giving the EK some serious attention tomorrow. The advice in the manual is to use Vaseline to grease the burr shaft. It didn't seem to have much, if any, from factory build so I used some silicon grease last night. Will re-grease with Vaseline tomorrow.

Main thing I got from last night's is I know for sure where dead zero is so can adjust the 10 degree offset with certainty.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Here's a video showing no ringing or chirping at finest setting.


----------



## garydyke1

So your conclusion is it just needed a bit of a clean


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Probably. When I stripped it down, the drive shaft didn't have much if any grease on it. As the pre-breaker slides up and down the shaft under spring tension, lack of grease might have caused some sticking? Don't know for sure but will see tomorrow when I have time to really check it out.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Can you get the motor out?


No - guess you remove the motor via the rear of the machine.


----------



## Xpenno

I think I mentioned previously that I've had something similar on my Royal where the ground coffee sticks to the burrs or the burr carrier and rubs whilst spinning. It only happens every now and again and it's usually 'fixed' (not that it's broken) by tightening up the grind and then loosening off again, obviously a good clean also works.


----------



## garydyke1

My initial thoughts around the EK :

At setting 1.5 (with standard dial) and a light-medium roast Bolivia Loayza 14 days past roast

20g into 40g took 40 seconds with 5 seconds preinfusion @ 60%

Same dose with zero preinfusion = chokes the Sage! (which is hard to do)

The shots develop differently to any other grinder I have used before, it looks like its about to choke, then slowly slowly drips for 10 seconds and quickly erupts.

A coffee I was struggling with (even as brewed) extractions - on the EK boom instant sweetness 19.6 into 35g in 27 seconds : )

I am grinding directly into the portafilter with a funnel , then a simple tap down and tamp - perfect symmetrical pours.

Cant wait to get stuck in with a chemex tomorrow


----------



## Mrboots2u

Presuming that's with a the burrs at factory zero or have you zero d them out yourself ?


----------



## garydyke1

I zero'd them myself but backed off 1-2mm . From factory they were pretty much bang on, maybe 1mm out


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> The shots develop differently to any other grinder I have used before, it looks like its about to choke, then slowly slowly drips for 10 seconds and quickly erupts.


...and I thought there was something going wrong with my distribution but said nothing because the result was very good.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Agree with Gary. On reflection my EK's burrs were probably near spot on factory set. I adjusted them because of the chirping. Having stripped the EK down I am relieved the sound wasn't the burrs.

One thing. Manual says shaft on which pre-breaker sits should be greased. Mine definitely wasn't. But is now


----------



## garydyke1

The revelation is direct into portafilter, then thwack to knock off any remnants . I can tap the funnel and then actually distribute as the heap is high enough .

The grind quality is amazing


----------



## jeebsy

What type of funnel are you using? Direct into portafilter is dirty talk


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> What type of funnel are you using? Direct into portafilter is dirty talk












Same one as Maxwell in UKBC , I've had mine 12 months not knowing it clipped into a portafilter !


----------



## jeebsy

How much 'splashback' ate you getting? Wondering if my existing camera lens hood cover would work


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> How much 'splashback' ate you getting? Wondering if my existing camera lens hood cover would work


The 'fallout' zone is about 2-3 cm from edge of basket, 3-4cm you'd get only minor radiation


----------



## coffeechap

where did you get that from gary


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> where did you get that from gary


Sainsbury's bargain bucket


----------



## Xpenno

Not seen them since he mentioned it, maybe I just need to find a bigger Sainsburys


----------



## garydyke1

Laura used to work for Sainsburys as a buyer , their ''sample sales'' provided many a bargain in our house..... I miss those freebies : (

If you twitter Maxwell he got one recently


----------



## Xpenno

The large kilner metal funnels surely would do a similar job, no? Plonk them in the top of the basket and grind away...


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> The large kilner metal funnels surely would do a similar job, no? Plonk them in the top of the basket and grind away...


More static ? Dunno ......


----------



## garydyke1

Indeed, probably would. I like the stability and fit of this one , coffee doesnt stick to it


----------



## garydyke1

Boom


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> More static ? Dunno ......


I always though that metal = less static... Dunno either


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> I always though that metal = less static... Dunno either


Make some kind of ronco static a matic.......


----------



## c_squared

Looking good Gary...time for another thwacking video, can you keep up with the ek like you did with the mazzer!!


----------



## jeebsy

I'm going to investigate lens hoods for this


----------



## garydyke1

How many kilos have you guys ran through to season the burrs?


----------



## ronsil

I've put 8/9 kilos through mine to now


----------



## garydyke1

did find it settled down /improved?


----------



## ronsil

Zerod the burrs on arrival & again after about 4 kilos. Seems very settled now


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> The large kilner metal funnels surely would do a similar job, no? Plonk them in the top of the basket and grind away...


I'll give that a go tomorrow, Spence, with mine.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> How many kilos have you guys ran through to season the burrs?


A meagre four


----------



## garydyke1

Ive also noted the 'chirping' which definitely isn't burrs touching, I think a good greasing would help.


----------



## garydyke1

> Here you go Gary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Love it!


----------



## coffeechap

They pretty much all chirp out of the box, so for new owners the strip down, familiarisation and grease is a good exercise to do...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

They're called Sidestepper - CD is More Grip. They're a Columbian band - thought it was apt for a coffee vid



garydyke1 said:


> Whats the music on your Chemex video?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> They pretty much all chirp out of the box, so for new owners the strip down, familiarisation and grease is a good exercise to do...


Excellent advice, coffeechap - so easy to do too.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

After spending yesterday as a glorified taxi - didn't have time to check out the EK after cleaning and recalibrating the burrs. Mrs Systemic has given me the day off so I can see what difference the cleaning and re-zeroing has made to shots. Will try Gary's 'dose direct' method and post a vid later.


----------



## garydyke1

Alas we have to go out , I would be exploring nutation (64 seconds no bitterness and melted choc mouthfeel) and reduced 80% pressure and flow shots (thin transparent and clean) which revealed an HUGE amazing array of shot characteristics!!! Too many variables.

Faster shot = hotter in cup = harsher (works better 90-91c)

Slower shot = cooler in cup (works better 93-94c)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Running EK close to zero - Londinium Rwandan. 18grms in 29-30grms out. Finally got the Seville orangey mouth taste Reiss mentions - no sourness. At 16grms, it was under-extracted and sour - not pleasant. Think the burrs have some way to go before they are properly seasoned. Time to fire up the Quest.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Running EK close to zero - Londinium Rwandan. 18grms in 29-30grms out. Finally got the Seville orangey mouth taste Reiss mentions - no sourness. At 16grms, it was under-extracted and sour - not pleasant. Think the burrs have some way to go before they are properly seasoned. Time to fire up the Quest.


Can I request 10 kg please


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Can I request 10 kg please


Not such a bad idea - would still leave me with 45kg of greans. Mrs Systemic is beginning to mutter there are bags of beans everywhere.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Running EK close to zero - Londinium Rwandan. 18grms in 29-30grms out. Finally got the Seville orangey mouth taste Reiss mentions - no sourness. At 16grms, it was under-extracted and sour - not pleasant. .


My last 19g of that coffee was the best, it was trial-fodder.

19 > 42g

34 seconds

setting 2.0

preinfusion off

80% flow and pump

95c

Nutation with only tamper weight

THICK viscous mouthfeel, SWEET as anything, marmalade acidity and chocolate.


----------



## coffeechap

everything tastes nice in the EK


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Using IMS 24.5mm basket, doesn't work at 16grm or 17grm on my LI - just flows too fast and is really sour. At 18grm it's a revelation. All this at EK's finest setting.


----------



## Mrboots2u

How long you pre infusing for Patrick ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Not such a bad idea - would still leave me with 45kg of greans. Mrs Systemic is beginning to mutter there are bags of beans everywhere.


Get roasting , I'll cover the beans cost


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Using IMS 24.5mm basket, doesn't work at 16grm or 17grm on my LI - just flows too fast and is really sour. At 18grm it's a revelation. All this at EK's finest setting.


Too much headroom ? C


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> How long you pre infusing for Patrick ?


6-8 seconds....


----------



## coffeechap

cant believe you are having to go that fine, i was knocking the shots out at the show a whole number away from zero!!


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> 6-8 seconds....


Perhaps go back to 3 as per Reiss starting point.

Perhaps a longer pre in fusion isn't required due for he more modal nature off the grind ?

Dunno I am playing amateur guessing here


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Point of pre-infusion as I understand it, is to allow the grinds to swell and knit together to prevent channelling be

when being blasted at high pressure.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> cant believe you are having to go that fine, i was knocking the shots out at the show a whole number away from zero!!


What dose weight/basket combo were you using Dave? And when you say 'one whole number off zero' please don't tell me that was on the stock dial (1-11)


----------



## ronsil

I find the sweet spot circa 2.5 for espresso on my new dial. Have never gone lower than 1.5 with espresso. Circa 10 on my dial for 'coffee shots' Never go anywhere zero


----------



## coffeechap

no it was 1.5 off zero on callums dial, so 1.1 on a stock dial patrick, dose was 18 grams, but managed nice pours at 16grams at 1 from zero on callums dial


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> no it was 1.5 off zero on callums dial, so 1.1 on a stock dial patrick, dose was 18 grams, but managed nice pours at 16grams at 1 from zero on callums dial


Hmm! I'll rack through a few kilos of home roast next week and see what difference that makes.


----------



## Xpenno

First EK shot on my Verona!

I got Gary to grind me 20g of beans to bring back home with me. I transported them using one of the mini tins from the group buy and them I poured them into the basket (20g VST) it looked like someone had demolished the Berlin wall directly into it. Nevermind clumps these were boulders! I mashed them up a bit, nutated and this is what happened.....











Just over 40g out in 25 seconds at 94c. Tasted clear, sweet, great acidity even with the channelling towards the end of the shot. If I'd have made the same shot with my Royal I would have been wearing most of it.


----------



## Charliej

garydyke1 said:


> My last 19g of that coffee was the best, it was trial-fodder.
> 
> 19 > 42g
> 
> 34 seconds
> 
> setting 2.0
> 
> preinfusion off
> 
> 80% flow and pump
> 
> 95c
> 
> Nutation with only tamper weight
> 
> THICK viscous mouthfeel, SWEET as anything, marmalade acidity and chocolate.


Told you messing around with the pressure like that was an interesting experiment, it adds a whole new dimension to the Sage. I tried it the 1st time after I remembered reading something somewhere about some sprung levers and 7.5 bar and thought it had to be worth a try.


----------



## garydyke1

Im operating between 1.5 and 2.1 (standard dial) on non-seasoned burrs.

There are no 'sink shots' so long as you allow to cool, slightly. When they are good they are OMG, when they are bad they are 'meh'.

I might try and break the Sage by only ever running shots on preinfusion 80-85%


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Checking HB forum seems to suggest espresso grind is at or around zero which chimes with the feedback I received from the two coffee shops in Madchester that have them. NTP advised me to go for the Turkish burrs after their experience with coffee burrs. The other place are waiting on some new baskets.

Don't think it's an alignment problem. Interesting!!


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> THICK viscous mouthfeel


Interesting - that's not an adjective usually associated with EK shots.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Interesting - that's not an adjective usually associated with EK shots.


Nor the Sage ! Surprised myself . It never happens at full pressure/flow, shots are hotter and thinner


----------



## garydyke1

Don't discount the idea of a future turkish burr group buy. Would need a minimum of 5 sets


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Interesting - that's not an adjective usually associated with EK shots.


Me too - mouthfeel is noticeably thinner - weird at first as it's the first thing you notice before your tastebuds kick in so there's a split second of thinking - oh, oh - crap shot and then....the flavour kicks in and you change your mind


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Nor the Sage ! Surprised myself . It never happens at full pressure/flow, shots are hotter and thinner


I've noticed that on LI too - shots come out much hotter - anyone explain??


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Don't discount the idea of a future turkish burr group buy. Would need a minimum of 5 sets


Would definitely but interested in that, Gary.


----------



## garydyke1

Faster flow fresh hot water from boiler . Spoke with Gwyilm Davies about this at LCF . Seem to be reverting to a cool portafilter again , perhaps even the Perger chilled cup trick .

I have genuine concerns about running all my shots at lower flow and pressure , the machine doesn't sound overly happy about it when doing this for 30+ seconds, so long as it doesn't invalidate warranty I'm all good ha ha .


----------



## garydyke1

Further to this , switching from fast to slow flow rate shots would be a nightmare without a PID and fast temp recovery . Finding there is no set and forget parameter on the machine for all coffees , even if the grinder dial doesn't need to move .


----------



## vikingboy

I recall reading somewhere on the internet and I can't find it now that although the turkish burr set can grind finer, the variation in grind size is larger than the coffee burrs are capable of, so if you are targeting higher extractions which is the USP of the EK43 then the less diverse grind size is better.

So much scope to play with something so simple as a big motor and two grinding discs


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Faster flow fresh hot water from boiler . Spoke with Gwyilm Davies about this at LCF . Seem to be reverting to a cool portafilter again , perhaps even the Perger chilled cup trick .


I don't warm the espresso cups now - might try the Perger chilled cup too.



garydyke1 said:


> I have genuine concerns about running all my shots at lower flow and pressure , the machine doesn't sound overly happy about it when doing this for 30+ seconds, so long as it doesn't invalidate warranty I'm all good ha ha .


Don't tell them!!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

vikingboy said:


> I recall reading somewhere on the internet and I can't find it now that although the turkish burr set can grind finer, the variation in grind size is larger than the coffee burrs are capable of, so if you are targeting higher extractions which is the USP of the EK43 then the less diverse grind size is better.
> 
> So much scope to play with something so simple as a big motor and two grinding discs


That's what decided me to go with the possible pain of the coffee burrs - surfing around zero setting - getting the higher extraction levels. Running some lighter roasts through the EK and HG One show the EK mutes the acidity where it's not on the HG One.


----------



## garydyke1

First Chemex on the EK.

Bolivia Finca Loayza (17 days past roast)

Setting 9.0 (standard dial)

22.5g

385g water

First thing to mention is complete lack of visible fines after the brew had finished. Even after removal of 0.6g

Crisp, clean , sweet, wonderful! Bright but not sharp & chocolate finish which goes on and on. Black forest gateaux. Its amazing the absolute lack of bitterness and sharpness. I could replay this brew at setting 8.0 with no issues.

Can kind of see where I should be shooting for with the espresso from this same coffee, aiming for the transparency and sweetness not bothering about mouthfeel at all


----------



## Xpenno

From my extremely limited EK experience I have learned to that you need to unlearn everything that came before. Here are some of the things I have 'learned' from various sources, none of these are rules just possible new guidelines....

1. Don't be afraid of more output in shorter time frames.

2. Don't be afraid to go a little hotter, since the shots don't have to run as long you can possibly nudge the machine up a degree or two.

3. Don't be afraid to go bigger in the basket. Since the particle size distribution is more even, adding more can help intensify the specific flavours of that coffee. You are less likely to under extract because there are very few larger particles in the basket due to grind consistency and since the shot runs faster the fines are not going to over extract. With many other high end grinders the particle size distribution is bigger (i.e. there are more particles over a wider size range) so to properly extract the particles of your chosen grind size you are always fighting the over extraction of fines and under extraction of the bigger particles.

As I say just some of the thoughts that I have come up with from watching UK/WCBC vids, spending time playing with an EK at Gary's (along with caffeine fuelled debate on how to make it better) and reading a lot of info from the internet.

When playing on day one we were trying to stick to the normal rules and the results were thin and not that great. Day two and slackening these rules off a bit and things were looking up!

There are quite a few reports around about the EK and mouthfeel being thin, I think if you get it right this is not the case (from tasting limited shots on it). Maybe it's different because your espresso ends up being bigger, I don't know, my head hurts and I don't even have one yet!

In summary, none of these make the EK better or worse than anything else out there, it does however make it different and I think that a different thought process is required to get the best out of it.

P.S. where is my EK?! Need to play more....


----------



## garydyke1

vikingboy said:


> I recall reading somewhere on the internet and I can't find it now that although the turkish burr set can grind finer, the variation in grind size is larger than the coffee burrs are capable of, so if you are targeting higher extractions which is the USP of the EK43 then the less diverse grind size is better.
> 
> So much scope to play with something so simple as a big motor and two grinding discs


John Gordon and 3FE would disagree, also discovered that Maxwell used Turkish burrs in the UKBC..... my head hurts


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> From my extremely limited EK experience I have learned to that you need to unlearn everything that came before. Here are some of the things I have 'learned' from various sources, none of these are rules just possible new guidelines....
> 
> 1. Don't be afraid of more output in shorter time frames.
> 
> 2. Don't be afraid to go a little hotter, since the shots don't have to run as long you can possibly nudge the machine up a degree or two.
> 
> 3. Don't be afraid to go bigger in the basket. Since the particle size distribution is more even, adding more can help intensify the specific flavours of that coffee. You are less likely to under extract because there are very few larger particles in the basket due to grind consistency and since the shot runs faster the fines are not going to over extract. With many other high end grinders the particle size distribution is bigger (i.e. there are more particles over a wider size range) so to properly extract the particles of your chosen grind size you are always fighting the over extraction of fines and under extraction of the bigger particles.
> 
> As I say just some of the thoughts that I have come up with from watching UK/WCBC vids, spending time playing with an EK at Gary's (along with caffeine fuelled debate on how to make it better) and reading a lot of info from the internet.
> 
> When playing on day one we were trying to stick to the normal rules and the results were thin and not that great. Day two and slackening these rules off a bit and things were looking up!
> 
> There are quite a few reports around about the EK and mouthfeel being thin, I think if you get it right this is not the case (from tasting limited shots on it). Maybe it's different because your espresso ends up being bigger, I don't know, my head hurts and I don't even have one yet!
> 
> In summary, none of these make the EK better or worse than anything else out there, it does however make it different and I think that a different thought process is required to get the best out of it.
> 
> P.S. where is my EK?! Need to play more....


Also , have been advised a minimum of 10kg to season the burrs!


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> Also , have been advised a minimum of 10kg to season the burrs!


I'm well past that figure now. My burrs seem very much to have settled down.

As I said before circa 2.5 on the new dial works well for me. Only need to do minute changes, if necessary, to dial in a new bean.

The finest I've ever been is 2.3 on the new dial. Of course most of my roasts tend to be on the dark side.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> First thing to mention is complete lack of visible fines after the brew had finished. Even after removal of 0.6g
> 
> Crisp, clean , sweet, wonderful! Bright but not sharp & chocolate finish which goes on and on. Black forest gateaux. Its amazing the absolute lack of bitterness and sharpness. I could replay this brew at setting 8.0 with no issues.


Been hitting extraction rates of 18%-22% with the EK for Ethiopian Kercha - delicate flavour still discernible at the higher rates without being blocked out by body. With previous grinder, was having to filter the fines out otherwise the body would kill all the flavour. EK is a revelation for pour over - able to get the very best out of the bean's flavour profile.


----------



## garydyke1

And boom back to 100% flow and pressure and a 2nd April roast of Columbia Andino . Possibly the lightest roast since Wendelboe. 95c . Setting 1.75 and 1.5 produced 41g from 20 in 38 and 50 seconds . Surprisingly the most muted of acidity and loads of chocolates . Shall try a 25-30 second shot later to see if can coax some acidity out !


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Shall try a 25-30 second shot later to see if can coax some acidity out !


Trying to coax some acidity out - hysterical


----------



## garydyke1

Managed it , woop. Setting 2.0 - 26 seconds. 42g from 20g. Cold portafilter , split pour.

Really really clear flavour, chocolate and caramel , perhaps a grape acidity. So so sweet. Mouthfeel isnt even a consideration when its that sweet.

Half for me , half thrown into the beef-shin chilli i'm making for supper.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Come in guys , I'm living my ek dreams through you two at the moment ..more more more


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Come in guys , I'm living my ek dreams through you two at the moment ..more more more


You can have this one for £2k ; )


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> You can have this one for £2k ; )


Hmmmmmmm not funny


----------



## The Systemic Kid

You can come round and look at my EK for a tenner Boots if that's any good!


----------



## Xpenno

Gary, I think I'll probably be round once a day with my bag of Brazil fazenda cachoeira da grama yellow bourbon pulped natural so that you can grind me a couple of shots worth off


----------



## Mrboots2u

Yeah ill post you some beans up too


----------



## garydyke1

I guess I could bang a load of c02 in the bags and seal up : )


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Gary, I think I'll probably be round once a day with my bag of Brazil fazenda cachoeira da grama yellow bourbon pulped natural so that you can grind me a couple of shots worth off


Anytime. Tell you what, chalk and cheese friday versus Sunday, some tweek to process etc


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Anytime. Tell you what, chalk and cheese friday versus Sunday, some tweek to process etc


And you thought I gave up the grinder because I'm a nice guy. I just wanted you to do all the hard work and then teach me


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Xpenno said:


> And you thought I gave up the grinder because I'm a nice guy. I just wanted you to do all the hard work and then teach me


I would gloat too much Spence. I witnessed some of his "tweaks" to your grinder on Friday night. If it was my grinder I'm not sure if I'd want it back


----------



## garydyke1

urbanbumpkin said:


> I would gloat too much Spence. I witnessed some of his "tweaks" to your grinder on Friday night. If it was my grinder I'm not sure if I'd want it back


Spence - you wanted it bright pink, yeh?


----------



## Xpenno

urbanbumpkin said:


> I would gloat too much Spence. I witnessed some of his "tweaks" to your grinder on Friday night. If it was my grinder I'm not sure if I'd want it back


Gary can tweak my grinder anytime!


----------



## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Spence - you wanted it bright pink, yeh?


I was more thinking of the "Gaz's" scratched into the side of it with a compass.









Seriously Spence, it looks the absolute business mate. It looks an absolutely awesome grinder.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Spence - you wanted it bright pink, yeh?


With sparkles, yeah?


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> With sparkles, yeah?


And I didn't see the point of the dial thingy either


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Pink sparkly EK - got to be the Barbie EK version.


----------



## Xpenno

urbanbumpkin said:


> I was more thinking of the "Gaz's" scratched into the side of it with a compass.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously Spence, it looks the absolute business mate. It looks an absolutely awesome grinder.


Lol! I know he goes to the gym but I don't think that would have saved him! Cheers though Clive, we'll have to sort another Brum night sometime soon, maybe try and get a curry this time


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Pink sparkly EK - got to be the Barbie EK version.


I needed it to match the rest of my kitchen.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Xpenno said:


> Lol! I know he goes to the gym but I don't think that would have saved him! Cheers though Clive, we'll have to sort another Brum night sometime soon, maybe try and get a curry this time


Ha ha ha.....I wouldn't fancy his chances.

Yes definitely would be good to meet up again.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> And I didn't see the point of the dial thingy either


Bin it! Since the coffee tastes so good from the EK, I'm just going to eat.


----------



## garydyke1

Decided to give the IMS 22g basket a whirl now I have a naked filter which can accommodate it.

Using the Columbia Andino washed , which has been lovely in the VST 20g at anything 1.9-2.4 ratio. Think I understand what its got to offer.

22g @ setting 2.0

52g

31 seconds

95C

It made the coffee taste ''odd''! Nice mouthfeel tho


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> I needed it to match the rest of my kitchen.


That's the ticket, Spence


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> It made the coffee taste ''odd''! Nice mouthfeel tho


What do you mean??


----------



## garydyke1

It was lacking any of the positive traits I've found when cupping , brewing or extracting it.

Unbalanced and harsh with little sweetness .

I'd be tempted to rerun it but pull more beverage weight from less dosage .


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> It was lacking any of the positive traits I've found when cupping , brewing or extracting it.
> 
> Unbalanced and harsh with little sweetness .
> 
> I'd be tempted to rerun it but pull more beverage weight from less dosage .


Interesting, I sidelined my IMS a few weeks backs after running side-by-sides with my new 20g VST. Most of the time I found that the IMS could produce a thicker, smoother shot but at the expense of some of the subtleties of the coffee, especially in upper fruity region. When I nail a shot with the VST I find it to be much more to my taste. Just my observations, on my kit, with my skills (or lack thereof).


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Interesting, I sidelined my IMS a few weeks backs after running side-by-sides with my new 20g VST. Most of the time I found that the IMS could produce a thicker, smoother shot but at the expense of some of the subtleties of the coffee, especially in upper fruity region. When I nail a shot with the VST I find it to be much more to my taste. Just my observations, on my kit, with my skills (or lack thereof).


Interesting, Spence. Found I got better (more consistent) extractions with the IMS compared to the VSTs so have gone over to using IMS exclusively. Far too many variables to ponder on


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Interesting, Spence. Found I got better (more consistent) extractions with the IMS compared to the VSTs so have gone over to using IMS exclusively. Far too many variables to ponder on


Too many indeed! It could be the different pressure profile of the L1 that makes this basket shine?

Maybe we need an EK owners (or soon to be owners) meet, between us we could get at least an L1 a Sage and an E61 (Verona or Expo or both) in a room. We could test machines, basket etc.. but keep the grinder constant.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Too many indeed! It could be the different pressure profile of the L1 that makes this basket shine?
> 
> Maybe we need an EK owners (or soon to be owners) meet, between us we could get at least an L1 a Sage and an E61 (Verona or Expo or both) in a room. We could test machines, basket etc.. but keep the grinder constant.


That would be really interesting to see.


----------



## garydyke1

After dissecting a puck from the 20g VST after a pour using nutation - I noted that the centre section, bottom 1/3rd was completely dry, water hadn't even reached it!

So went 1 tiny notch finer and dropped dose to 18g - the pour was a lot prettier , slow and controlled.

More playing required!!!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Using 24.5mm IMS with 17grms in - Redbrick then Atkinson's Thalia - 10sec pre-infusion - 35-40grms out - getting very even extraction across the puck. Thalia is pretty light coloured so easy to spot areas of under-extraction. Normally, can't drink Thalia as an espresso - too acidic for me but through the EK, I can - acidity not too pronounced - blackcurrant. Must try some HasBean offerings - for me, the true acid test (pun intended).


----------



## Charliej

The Systemic Kid said:


> Using 24.5mm IMS with 17grms in - Redbrick then Atkinson's Thalia - 10sec pre-infusion - 35-40grms out - getting very even extraction across the puck. Thalia is pretty light coloured so easy to spot areas of under-extraction. Normally, can't drink Thalia as an espresso - too acidic for me but through the EK, I can - acidity not too pronounced - blackcurrant. Must try some HasBean offerings - for me, the true acid test (pun intended).


I noticed this at NTP last week Patrick they made me a shot of their Deer Hunter Blend from the Robur and one from the EK, and the one from the Robur I found was as usual undrinkable for me as espresso but was really rather nice from the EK, far far less acidic/acidity(whatever way you want to call it) which made it really drinkable, it was almost like having 2 totally different coffees in front of me, and the shot of Bonanza's Worka Espresso which is an Ethiopian Cherry Red Yirgacheffe was really juicy but with the winey hints you also get from a lot of Ethiopian coffee kind of like a Botrytis pudding wine.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

As you say Charlie, EK can mute acidity but at the 'cost' of less body/mouthfeel.


----------



## jeebsy

Craft coffee, my favourite shop in London, used an EK for espresso and had a 'traditional' grinder for milky drinks as they found a shorter shot was better and gave more room in the cup for the milk.

Has anyone on here with an EK tried the shots in milk?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Use the EK for flat whites - 160ml cups. Works really well for me - using Atkinson's Thalia I get malty front end and a blast of fruity acidity on the finish. The acidity is well balanced with sweetness. Given the lesser body that's characteristic of EK shots, would have thought milk would overpower - quite the opposite. Shot cuts right through the milk like a knife - loads of definition.


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Craft coffee, my favourite shop in London, used an EK for espresso and had a 'traditional' grinder for milky drinks as they found a shorter shot was better and gave more room in the cup for the milk.
> 
> Has anyone on here with an EK tried the shots in milk?


Think Callum may have partaken of a few flat whites........


----------



## garydyke1

Bit of EK talk

Extract Coffee Roasters, roast date 7th April.

VST 20 basket

grinding direct into basket/funnel, shaking funnel until all in basket, a single tap to collapse and then a circular distribution, single straight down tamp.

95c / preinfusion off

21g dose

49-51g target yield

Setting 1.5 - 32 seconds (best of the bunch, decent mouthfeel, nothing over-powering, lovely choc sweetness)

Setting 1.7 - 26 seconds (bit hot and thin, cooled = better, brighter plummy acidity, not so much choc, touch of caramel, light)

Setting 1.3 - 40 seconds (didnt smell pleasant, best mouthfeel, muted acids , some bitterness, muddled)

Would love to run the three shots again but stopping at 40g...sadly im jittery. enough for today......


----------



## Mrboots2u

Is that the cup of excellence espresso gary ?


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Is that the cup of excellence espresso gary ?


Yep, sure is 13 char


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Yep, sure is 13 char


It's a wow coffee !!!!!!!!, delicious espresso


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> It's a wow coffee !!!!!!!!, delicious espresso


Yeah , its been ok so far


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Yeah , its been ok so far


Praise indeed .......


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Praise indeed .......


Ill cup it tomorrow and see how its meant to taste


----------



## Mrboots2u

Plummy.........


----------



## garydyke1

Decided to grind literally on zero and reduce temp to 93c

10 seconds pre-infusion @ 55%

43 seconds to get 43.5g (split pour)

Much thinner mouthfeel, my god the sweetness! Much much nicer . You could say plum acidity actually.

once again switching to spouts and having singles = much nicer


----------



## garydyke1

Patrick - wondered if you had got round to measuring your espresso extractions yet?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Patrick - wondered if you had got round to measuring your espresso extractions yet?


Measured a few shots just after I got the EK - was getting 19-20%. Figured the burrs weren't seasoned enough. Was having to grind at or very near zero to get decent extractions. Now, having to back to off the grind around one full stop. Going to rack another 4-5kgs of home roast over the weekend and retest. Will let you know how I get on but am noticing more sweetness in recent shots.


----------



## garydyke1

Be interesting to measure % for 1.6; 1.7; 1.8; 1.9; 2.0; 2.1; 2.2; 2.3; 2.4; 2.5 ratios!

All the quotes of >20% banded about have been >2.3 ratio


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Grind is so forgiving on the EK. Using some Redbrick, with a 10sec pre-infusion, took another 6-7secs for first drips to appear on LI with extraction taking in excess of 30secs. Used shot in flat white - wonderful long blackcurrant finish. One thing I've noticed about flat whites from the EK, the taste starts a bit bland - almost disappointing, then begins to build with an impressive clean balanced finish. Wonder if the bland start is due to the EK's characteristic lesser body/mouthfeel?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Be interesting to measure % for 1.6; 1.7; 1.8; 1.9; 2.0; 2.1; 2.2; 2.3; 2.4; 2.5 ratios!
> 
> All the quotes of >20% banded about have been >2.3 ratio


>20% extractions aren't likely on less than 2.0 ratios but will be interesting to check out.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> >20% extractions aren't likely on less than 2.0 ratios but will be interesting to check out.


Would like to see it plotted on a graph, with a variety of beans/roast profiles. Could build up a huge amount of data and find a common start-here 'sweet spot' point.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Here's a poser. Ground very fine (Redbrick) - near fine enough to choke the LI. Ran the extraction - took around 40secs inc preinfusiion. Checked the puck for channelling, uneven flow (sad, I low). Where the puck was in contact with the basket, there was darker colouring indicative of uneven extraction but only on the surface of the puck. Breaking it in half did not reveal any such evidence within the puck.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Would like to see it plotted on a graph, with a variety of beans/roast profiles. Could build up a huge amount of data and find a common start-here 'sweet spot' point.


Very good idea. Am logging my Chemex brews


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Here's a poser. Ground very fine (Redbrick) - near fine enough to choke the LI. Ran the extraction - took around 40secs inc preinfusiion. Checked the puck for channelling, uneven flow (sad, I low). Where the puck was in contact with the basket, there was darker colouring indicative of uneven extraction but only on the surface of the puck. Breaking it in half did not reveal any such evidence within the puck.


Exactly the same observation today! I only see the darker colouring right on the corners/rim of puck - possibly convex base or simply not as dense coffee packing?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Exactly the same observation today! I only see the darker colouring right on the corners/rim of puck - possibly convex base or simply not as dense coffee packing?


When I'm not choking the LI, with normal extractions, find a tiny triangle of darker puck on the underside on the corners of the inside the basket where the holes in the basket end. Guess extraction flow doesn't hit that tiny area?


----------



## garydyke1

El Salvador - Bello Horizonte

18g VST

19g dose

45g bev weight, wanted 47g but got trigger happy.

10 seconds preinfusion @ 55% (gauge reads

34 seconds total @93c

Poured into cold cups, split pour , Very little Crema.

Jesus. Never had so much clarity and sweetness, what the hell is 'body' ? Not relevant here. Juicy bracing 'just right' plum acidity transitioning to brown sugar ,and, caramel on the exhale several MINUTES after sipping. ZERO bitterness....ZERO sourness.

This is a 9.5/10 flavour experience, perhaps the only detractor was a touch of the roast creeping in. Makes me wonder what a 'non espresso' offering would be like at these parameters.

After Thought - the machine was cold, portafilter was cold, cups were cold. Yesterdays frustration and 'meh-isms' seems to centre around 95c, no preinfusion and coarser grind setting... and the obsessive everything must be ultra hot


----------



## Mrboots2u

Excellent posts!

I loved the extract as espresso thro the mythos with its plummy sweetness that even my cackhanded taste buds could pick up

my mouth is watering at the thought if it through the EK....

so where is my grinder ...


----------



## garydyke1

This grinder makes me bi-polar


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> This grinder makes me bi-polar


No it accentuates it ........


----------



## Xpenno

Brewing beer today with Mr **** and had a great EKspresso with the plumb extract bean, very tasty. To round the day off we have a couple of Chemex (two different grind sizes) using John Gordon's UKBC filter bean from Square Mile. It was by far the best filter that I have ever tasted (limited experience admittedly) the EK really did it justice, the aroma during brew was gorgeous, I could taste the toffee finish for about an hour afterwards!

The group buy tins are really coming in handy also as I take a bunch of beans round, grind them on the EK and then take them home for use over the next day or so, pretty sure the Gary must be sick of the sight of me by now


----------



## Xpenno

Ans a couple of pics


----------



## The Systemic Kid

God to hear you're enjoying Chemexes through the EK, Spence.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> God to hear you're enjoying Chemexes through the EK, Spence.


I've only every had Chemex in a coffee shop and I wanted to see how they should taste as well as a quick lesson on how to make them from Gary. Well, this was in a different league to the shop-bought efforts, even my first attempt was better tasting. The EK makes filter pretty easy by the looks of it


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Only place I've had a Chemex that's made me sit up and take notice was Brewlab.

Morning ritual is Chemex - EK gets the very best out of it.


----------



## garydyke1

Not even remotely dialled in and trying to brew 20+ litres of all-grain beer the EK just wipes the floor with any grinder for brewed! The Maestro+ and sifting versus the EK is like chalk and cheese.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Was having to sieve the grind with previous grinder to get the results I wanted - EK does it without fuss - outrageous


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Ran my first 60sec extraction this morning. Was testing some new scales and wanted a longer pour...but not quite that long. Should have been awful but was outstanding in flat white - loads of dark berry fruit but oh so sweet.


----------



## Xpenno

Man, I so need to spend some quality time with an EK and an L1!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Man, I so need to spend some quality time with an EK and an L1!


Give me that grinder you can stay I'm the spare room for a bit ...


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Give me that grinder you can stay I'm the spare room for a bit ...










now there's an offer


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Here's a picture to give you some idea of the EK's grinds retention. Use a slim brush to clear out remains when shifting from pour over to espresso grind or changing bean.

View attachment 6397


It weighed 0.6grms


----------



## garydyke1

Appliance next to industrial


----------



## Daren

It makes the Sage look like a toy.


----------



## Xpenno

Daren said:


> It makes the Sage look like a toy.


Don't let Charlie here you say that


----------



## Daren

Xpenno said:


> Don't let Charlie here you say that


I'm waiting for his response - i'm sure he won't let that comment go. I'm sure he's bashing out a 4 page reply as I write


----------



## coffeechap

do you think the sage only LOOKS like a toy.


----------



## Charliej

coffeechap said:


> do you think the sage only LOOKS like a toy.


No more than a Caravel does !!!!


----------



## garydyke1

The post dated 31st Jan makes interesting reading

http://sightsandthoughts.tumblr.com/


----------



## Xpenno

Interesting read! Fav quote "huge body"


----------



## Xpenno

He still prefers that Robur at the end, it's interesting, two completely different drinks in the cup.

Unless I missed it he doesn't really go into how he chose his grind settings for each. He was saying that it was interesting that the Robur was 29 seconds and the EK43 24 seconds, not really if they are not set to give the same pour time...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Replicates MP's findings almost to the letter. Interesting he makes the point about the Robur shots' body being more pleasing. Guess this is a consequence of conditioning - i.e. attributing a shot's mouthfeel/body elements high importance. Shots from an EK shot produce a noticeably thinner body/mouthfeel sensation but then the flavour builds and builds and the sweetness is a revelation.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> He still prefers that Robur at the end, it's interesting, two completely different drinks in the cup.
> 
> Unless I missed it he doesn't really go into how he chose his grind settings for each. He was saying that it was interesting that the Robur was 29 seconds and the EK43 24 seconds, not really if they are not set to give the same pour time...


Finding that pour times with the EK aren't that important - just let it run


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Finding that pour times with the EK aren't that important - just let it run


I wasn't doubting that, it just seemed an odd statement to make. Maybe I misread, is he saying that the greatest extractions occurred at 24 seconds and all shots were run at different grind settings?


----------



## Geordie Boy

Very interesting article and I'd never seen the Matt Perger site either.

My head now has thoughts all over the place taking this in


----------



## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> Very interesting article and I'd never seen the Matt Perger site either.
> 
> My head now has thoughts all over the place taking this in


The Matt Perger site has some really interesting articles. I really like how some people take a purely scientific approach, some are all about tradition and yet we all manage to meet somewhere in the middle. Mmmmm coffee.


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Interesting read! Fav quote "huge body"


I would say 21 -> 40-42 range on the EK is very voluptuous, but doesnt taste anywhere near as good as 48-50-52g range and then its more silky than honey like.

also worth noting the SIS system the T3 has

''The Soft Infusion System (SIS) is a special extraction method that increases espresso

extraction efficiency and consistency when combined with temperature stable brew water. Soft

infusion mitigates human error and compensates for different tamping pressures, grind

dimensions, and particle distribution. This is achieved by an innovative system that delays the

arrival of full pump pressure by up to 10 seconds, arrives at indirect angles, and injects that water

in eight precise points perfectly

bisecting the diameter of the coffee

cake. The Soft Infusion System (SIS)

guarantees a perfect and uniform

extraction because it pre-wets 85

percent of the depth of coffee cake

and pre-wets 100 percent of the diameter of the coffee cake before extraction. This pre-extraction

process greatly reduces channeling and fines migration, which are the cause of inconsistent,

incomplete, and inferior espresso extractions characteristic of standard espresso machines. The

Soft Infusion System (SIS) is also totally adjustable in terms of length of pre-infusion, and flow

rates to accommodate any blend of coffee or dosing method. The pre-infusion is also automatic and has not risk of user error.

Although tamping the coffee is still

recommended with the Soft Infusion

System (SIS), we can demonstrate its

effectiveness by pulling a shot without

tamping at all.''


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> I wasn't doubting that, it just seemed an odd statement to make. Maybe I misread, is he saying that the greatest extractions occurred at 24 seconds and all shots were run at different grind settings?


He probably couldnt get an EK shot any slower than 24 seconds, with his ''tamping lightly''


----------



## Geordie Boy

I've had a ponder









Is it that the EK produces a more even sized grind for the Espresso shots under test (the standard deviation of the particle size curve for the EK is a much smaller value than that for the Robur), and thus ultimately when you pack the coffee particles together in the puck, do you therefore end up with larger gaps compared to the Robur particles (which has different sized particles to better fit in the gaps between particles)? Thus, does the larger gaps in the puck from the EK43 result in the shot running faster but also has the consequence of having a more even extraction of those particles, a win-win in terms of shot consistency/extraction across the particles?

Does 'espresso body' come from the particles that have had a longer time in contact with the water (which the Robur does as shots are slower) and also has more particles of differing sizes? Does the body come from the smallest particles? I can't help thinking there's some parallels with brewed coffee here as well.

At the end of the day, coffee is a chemical reaction between a particle and water


----------



## garydyke1

Anyone hoping to switch from a conventional espresso grinder to the EK and have a seemless transition are in for a rude awakening. It produces a different type of espresso. You gain so much once you're dialled in and comfortable with the routine/approach. Ive gone from ''this is hopeless'' scratching my head to ''Ohhhh I see now.....OK!'' woop woop.

The starting point ratio of 1.6 is now 2.3 , lol


----------



## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> I've had a ponder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it that the EK produces a more even sized grind for the Espresso shots under test (the standard deviation of the particle size curve for the EK is a much smaller value than that for the Robur), and thus ultimately when you pack the coffee particles together in the puck, do you therefore end up with larger gaps compared to the Robur particles (which has different sized particles to better fit in the gaps between particles)? Thus, does the larger gaps in the puck from the EK43 result in the shot running faster but also has the consequence of having a more even extraction of those particles, a win-win in terms of shot consistency/extraction across the particles?
> 
> Does 'espresso body' come from the particles that have had a longer time in contact with the water (which the Robur does as shots are slower) and also has more particles of differing sizes? Does the body come from the smallest particles? I can't help thinking there's some parallels with brewed coffee here as well.
> 
> At the end of the day, coffee is a chemical reaction between a particle and water


Nice post, really like your theory on particle size and packing, you've got my cogs are whirring now









Anyways, off to rehearsals, last one before our first gig on Friday!


----------



## garydyke1

Extract coffee roasters Kenyan Karani - filter roast (and I mean FILTER roast) Looking like a wendleboe coffee minus a suntan.

21g @ absolute zero

47g output

34 seconds @ 93c

10seconds preinfusion

first drip hit the cup at 13 seconds, then didnt develop a flow until about 24....then proceeded to gush and make a mess . 99% end up in the cup. very little crema.

Aroma = exactly the same as when grind the coffee. blackcurrant and peaches.

The portafilter was stone cold, as was the cup. dunked the cup in ice water until espresso 'warm'.

OMG. Grapefruit and limes as clear as day, transitioning into brown sugar and perhaps even toffee. Mind , well and truely blown........


----------



## garydyke1

Repeated exactly the same , getting 50g in 32 seconds , turned it into a latte . Malty blackcurrant notes !









Pucks knocking out solid , in one


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Getting blackcurrant notes in spades in flat whites using Red Brick. Doesn't kick in until nearly most of cup consumed then builds and builds - hilarious.


----------



## garydyke1

Each brew involving the EK is more and more absurd. Its like every cup of coffee consumed prior to this was in black and white, now its colour and in 3D


----------



## El carajillo

garydyke1 said:


> Each brew involving the EK is more and more absurd. Its like every cup of coffee consumed prior to this was in black and white, now its colour and in 3D


I do not know what you are putting in your home brew but it sounds ILLEGAL next will be PSYCHEDELLIC coffee


----------



## Daren

garydyke1 said:


> Each brew involving the EK is more and more absurd. Its like every cup of coffee consumed prior to this was in black and white, now its colour and in 3D


Let me get this clear in my head then Gary - you like the EK?


----------



## garydyke1

Daren said:


> Let me get this clear in my head then Gary - you like the EK?


Sometimes I hate it


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> Its like every cup of coffee consumed prior to this was in black and white, now its colour and in 3D


I'm not doing as much as Gary with the EK but I do agree with this statement 100%.

Every extraction is an adventure. Absolutely no regrets changing to this from the Versalab


----------



## Daren

garydyke1 said:


> Sometimes I hate it


Sounds like a marriage


----------



## garydyke1

First attempt at a coffee-shot today.

18g in a 20g VST (lighter than normal tamp)

Grind setting 2.5 (standard dial)

10 seconds preinfusion @55%

43 seconds total @91c

215g (!) output...looked like pure water coming out at the end

It tasted like an, erm, filter coffee - americano hybrid. Didn't go as far as filtering like Perger through a v60 paper, but could see how that would clarify the brew and remove pesky crema.

So the espresso machine can do it all afterall! It was pleasant for a first attempt!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Running some extraction tests this afternoon.

First up - Red Brick:

17.8grms dose

5sec pre-infusion - 25sec run

36.6grm out

TDS 9.26%

Extraction 19.83%

Ran Red Brick through HG One

17.9grm dose

5sec pre-infusion - 25sec run

37.4grm out

TDS 8.12%

Extraction 17.67%

EK's shot - intense citrus but not sharp and unpleasant. HG - less intense citrus and much more sharp.


----------



## garydyke1

Interesting the higher TDS of the EK shots doesnt translate into thick mouthfeel.

I would be interested to see this re-run but with 45g output

17.8grms dose

5sec pre-infusion - 25sec run

36.6grm out

TDS 9.26%

Extraction 19.83%


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Limitations of a lever. Would need to get into Fellini pulls.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Limitations of a lever. Would need to get into Fellini pulls.


No coffee shots then?


----------



## coffeechap

limitations of the user not the lever


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> limitations of the user not the lever


Ooh! C'mon CC - show us how it's done.


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> limitations of the user not the lever


Sounds like a video waiting to happen!


----------



## coffeechap

best bring the camera then spence


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Camera phone will do, Dave. Would like to see 320grms pulled through LI.


----------



## coffeechap

i thought gary was aiming at 40grams, recon i could get 100 grams out 320 might be a bit too far


----------



## ronsil

This I must see. How do you get circa 300 grams, in one go, out of a lever?. A lungo I'm sure is very possible & will taste exceptional but 300 grams....?


----------



## Xpenno

I'm not really bothered about coffeeshots TBH. As long as I can get good EKspresso, amerEKanos and some kind filter if required (v60 or Chemex etc..) then I'll be happy.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

You'll be happy Spence!


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> This I must see. How do you get circa 300 grams, in one go, out of a lever?. A lungo I'm sure is very possible & will taste exceptional but 300 grams....?


Get the kettle out and pour it over the puck manually?

Chemex > coffee-shot any day of the week


----------



## The Systemic Kid

That's the way to do it!


----------



## garydyke1

Just pulled 2 shots, same coffee, same grind, same everything except output weight and temperature.

21 > 52g @ 91c

21 > 40.5g @ 93c

Both very different but equally nice, also approximately the same end beverage temperature in the cup. The Longer shot was sweeter, perhaps a touch of bitter on the finisher, and, the shorter shot had better mouthfeel and more rounded.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Just put some HasBean Ethiopian Kebel Kercha Guji through. Never been a fan of lighter roasts as espresso so had been putting this off until the burrs were more settled.

Dosed 19grms in IMS 24.5mm basket - 31grms out. Didn't bother about time - somewhere around 30secs plus 6-7sec pre-infusion.

Dose was one gram too much for the basket - left shower screen imprint on puck. Pour wasn't perfect either. That said - shot was an intense blast of fruit - strawberry/blueberry without the wince inducing acidity. Wouldn't get this from the HG One so looks like the EK ticks another box.


----------



## Xpenno

First EK day today at home with the Verona. Old ways out, new ways in. All is good in coffee-land.

I was talking to my new friend on Instagram, JohnHoneyKim and he suggested 20g > 40g as a great starting point, he also suggested using espresso roast beans as lighter are unstable. I have to agree but I'm getting crazy shots from the Extract super-light filter roast that Gary gave me to try. It's like grapefruit coffee, weather or not it's your cup of tea or not it simply shouldn't be possible and yet it somehow is.

I've been using a trigger-action sieve into a funnel for dosing which seems to work well but it's a bit of a faff. There might be a shot prep video but I need to see how it came out first, didn;t have a cameraman so it might be crap.

After day 1 I can safely report that all is well in EK-land and it can only get better









Happy days.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

I popped over to pick up some beans off Spence earlier this evening. Had some great shots care of Spence.

The EK is definitely out there to be breaking some rules and for unlearning everything you've done previously.

I don't think there was a shot under 30 seconds! I'm suppressed Gary hasn't changed his signature to "My God- it's full of stars!"


----------



## Xpenno

urbanbumpkin said:


> I popped over to pick up some beans off Spence earlier this evening. Had some great shots care of Spence.
> 
> The EK is definitely out there to be breaking some rules and for unlearning everything you've done previously.
> 
> I don't think there was a shot under 30 seconds! I'm suppressed Gary hasn't changed his signature to "My God- it's full of stars!"


Nice to catch up Clive, you're welcome anytime.


----------



## garydyke1

Squaremile - Bita (Bonga Ethiopia)

20 > 45 > 36 seconds.

preinfusion off but manually switched to 55% for last 8 seconds to slow flow a touch.

Crazy lavender jelly-tots !


----------



## Xpenno

Little bit of gold EK porn for Sunday night


















It's from St Ali, apparently it's EK day, I asked if they had a close-up of the custom dial.


----------



## Xpenno

Is this the gold bling that CC is after?


----------



## coffeechap

Close but not quite


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> Close but not quite


More like this?


----------



## dsc

Sorry for an OT Xpenno, but do you happen to remember the brand of that digital scale visible on the photo on the right? I've seen it some place else already but forgot the name, I'm currently looking for a quick scale which can do 0.1g resolution and it's between this and the My Weight i1200.

Regards,

T.


----------



## Xpenno

dsc said:


> Sorry for an OT Xpenno, but do you happen to remember the brand of that digital scale visible on the photo on the right? I've seen it some place else already but forgot the name, I'm currently looking for a quick scale which can do 0.1g resolution and it's between this and the My Weight i1200.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Not my pic mate but I believe they are these scales.

http://www.oakleyweigh.co.uk/ohaus-navigator-xt-balance.html

http://espressosyndicate.com.au/product/ohaus-navigator-xt-portafilter-scales

Hope that helps.

Spence


----------



## dsc

Cheers! £150 seems a bit steep, considering I've bought a pretty much brand new 0.01g resolution scale a while ago which turned out to be super slow. An urge to pass is quickly building up

Regards,

T.


----------



## Xpenno

Yeah I think that they are scientific grade scales hence the premium. My £6 eBay scales do the job for me but the pf isn't going to fit on them


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dsc said:


> Cheers! £150 seems a bit steep, considering I've bought a pretty much brand new 0.01g resolution scale a while ago which turned out to be super slow. An urge to pass is quickly building up
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


Tom, the Acaia scales Glenn is sourcing weigh in 0.1grm increments, are virtually waterproof, fast responding and can weigh a portafilter plus dose accurately. Built in timer too and Bluetooth iphone/ipad compatible.


----------



## garydyke1

Banged up the temp to 96c today and turned preinfusion off.

Ran some quick shots 23-26 seconds, setting 1.7.

20 in

40-44g out

The John Gordon UKBC espresso took on yet another iteration , smelling like a full on natural coffee in the cup! Mouthfeel really quite amazing. Blackberry very clearly there. The acidity was just about reigned in...in the same sort of way as haribo sour sweets, once you get over the initial hit you crave more and more. Really great shots you just want to 'chew' to get at those amazing flavours.

The burrs must be settling down as these sorts of settings/ratios/outputs were not tasting anywhere near as good on day 1, 2, 3.....


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> Ran some quick shots 23-26 seconds, setting 1.7.


Is that original or new dial setting?


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> Is that original or new dial setting?


As this is technically Spence's its the standard dial for now, he has a funky silver one tho for this black machine.


----------



## dsc

The Systemic Kid said:


> Tom, the Acaia scales Glenn is sourcing weigh in 0.1grm increments, are virtually waterproof, fast responding and can weigh a portafilter plus dose accurately. Built in timer too and Bluetooth iphone/ipad compatible.


Cheers Patrick, will have a look!

Regards,

T.


----------



## Xpenno

Back where she belongs!


----------



## ronsil

I see you are dosing directly through the jam funnel.

Are you finding

A - much waste over the top of the funnel

b - any static causing grounds to adhere

C - what happens to the funnel when you thack the lever to clear the chute?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Don't find any loss over top of funnel dosing direct into portafilter but static is a hassle with darker roasts.


----------



## Xpenno

ronsil said:


> I see you are dosing directly through the jam funnel.
> 
> Are you finding
> 
> A - much waste over the top of the funnel
> 
> b - any static causing grounds to adhere
> 
> C - what happens to the funnel when you thack the lever to clear the chute?


Similar to Patrick, No waste over the funnel, the grounds do stick to the funnel, seems to work ok with the funnel staying in place. Only one shot in so far though


----------



## Xpenno

Just looking at fitting me 3fe dial, what's the easiest way to remove the big grind adjustment knob?

Cheers

Spence


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Undo the two Allen lock nuts and undo the centre adjustment screw. I took off the original dial even though it's paper thin as I wanted to give as much clearance as possible to accommodate the one Callum supplied. Glad I did as, once reassembled, the clearance between the new dial and adjustment knob is close.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Undo the two Allen lock nuts and undo the centre adjustment screw. I took off the original dial even though it's paper thin as I wanted to give as much clearance as possible to accommodate the one Callum supplied. Glad I did as, once reassembled, the clearance between the new dial and adjustment knob is close.


Thanks Patrick, I take it that nothing falls off when you undo that middle screw? I was just worried because it adjusts the burrs


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Bit more info, Spence. Changed my dial when I checked the burr for contact wear - (was getting strange ringing noise) - so I had everything apart - pre-breaker, burr etc.

Checking the manual, you will have to remove the grinder casing cover (two screws) and then, remove the chrome screw (centre) which attaches to a flange that abuts on to the pre-breaker.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Bit more info, Spence. Changed my dial when I checked the burr for contact wear - (was getting strange ringing noise) - so I had everything apart - pre-breaker, burr etc.
> 
> Checking the manual, you will have to remove the grinder casing cover (two screws) and then, remove the chrome screw (centre) which attaches to a flange that abuts on to the pre-breaker.


Thanks for the update, I'll give it a go.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Used the last of the Ethiopian Kebel Kercha Guji - 17grms - 6 sec pre-infusion - 25 sec - 40grms out. Bursting with strawberry zingy sweetness - balanced acidity - going to miss the Kebel.


----------



## ronsil

My pours on the EK still start off 'fluttery' then into two streams & finally two thirds way through settle into one stream.

Distribution has never been a problem for me & not used to seeing multi streams.

What matters is the taste is good but just wondered if anyone else is getting this with a naked PF + EK43


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Are you pre-infusing Ron?

Routinely give 6-8 secs before pulling a shot on LI. If going really fine, grind-wise, can be 10 secs before first drips appear which are the start of a tripod pour but quickly settle down as the pour really begins into a central plume. With a less finer grind and a correspondingly quicker pour (lighter roasts - don't tell CoffeeChap) often get a double spout at the beginning melding into a single spout mid way through pour.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Been experimenting dosing into the portafilter basket direct from the cocktail tumbler which has more or less the same diameter as the basket. Saves a load of faff using the funnel. So far, not noticed any problems with uneven extraction but check further next week.


----------



## ronsil

Yes - doing 3-5 seconds pre-infusion


----------



## Xpenno

I was getting this, I'm putting it down to the generally faster flow from the EK ground coffee meaning that the stream didn't form as quickly. I'm guessing that this is less of an issue for the lever boys as the declining pressure results in a declining flow and quicker forming tail.

Having said this, the last few shots (since I re-aligned the burrs!) have been much nicer looking pours and with less spritz, more testing to do tomorrow. I'm also not nutatating any more and I'm using my flat based tamper.


----------



## garydyke1

I kinda gave up with the naked portafilter and focused on taste to dial in, the visual ques were distracting (and messy). Once happy I reverted back to the naked - the pours were just about on the edge of keeping it together until the last 5 or so seconds, then madness ensued. Be interesting to re-try with re-aligned burrs.


----------



## Charliej

garydyke1 said:


> I kinda gave up with the naked portafilter and focused on taste to dial in, the visual ques were distracting (and messy). Once happy I reverted back to the naked - the pours were just about on the edge of keeping it together until the last 5 or so seconds, then madness ensued. Be interesting to re-try with re-aligned burrs.


Gary odd you should mention that about the pours, I've had a few that have started off ropy and settled down fast and quite a few the same as you've had, ground by Mythos obviously not EK and I've played around with different tampers etc and a straight forward tamp down to collapse the mound etc with my Goldfinger seems to be working best. Trying nutating a got a spritz on the end of my nose lol.


----------



## garydyke1

Charlie this is an EK thing, either down to the different grind profile, the 'unique' distribution employed, or, the fact that the burrs were not aligned. There doesnt appear to be a looks good = tastes good relationship.


----------



## Mrboots2u

That's numberwang


----------



## Xpenno

No, this is numberwang.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

That looks really cool Spence.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Be interesting to re-try with re-aligned burrs.


Gary, can you expand what you mean here in respect of re-aligning.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Gary, can you expand what you mean here in respect of re-aligning.


Ask Spence , I've not touched it


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> No, this is numberwang.


Is 1 at the Zero point ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Confused now....

whats does it go up to now ...

do i need to change the title of this thread.....


----------



## ronsil

The original dial went up to 11 but some,me included, have fitted more detailed dials for more control of grind.

Mine goes up to an indicated 22


----------



## Mrboots2u

ronsil said:


> The original dial went up to 11 but some,me included, have fitted more detailed dials for more control of grind.
> 
> Mine goes up to an indicated 22


Im going to make me own dial

Will go up to 1.. in very small increments.....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Im going to make me own dial
> 
> Will go up to 1.. in very small increments.....


There's always one isn't there


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Ask Spence , I've not touched it


Ah, spoke to Spence last night.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Is 1 at the Zero point ?


Nearly, although my fat fingers hindered the alignment accuracy so it's a couple of micro-notches off









I'll probably re-attach it one day, after I've plucked up the courage to take it to bits again.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Nearly, although my fat fingers hindered the alignment accuracy so it's a couple of micro-notches off
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll probably re-attach it one day, after I've plucked up the courage to take it to bits again.


Gets less daunting each time you do it Spence - I'm up to three now.


----------



## El carajillo

Come on Spence , go for it you know you can do it:good:


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Gets less daunting each time you do it Spence - I'm up to three now.


Yeah I'd feel much better about doing it again now. One method I found an easy way to start the burr carrier removal. There are two screw holes in the base of it, screw in some screws with nice big heads, then you can use two screw drivers to simultaneously lever the carrier forward. I used the screws from the front of my Mazzer doser and they did a fantastic job, saves jamming screwdrivers in there.


----------



## Xpenno

El carajillo said:


> Come on Spence , go for it you know you can do it:good:


I think I'm going to leave it for a bit now as the coffee tastes good and at the end of the day it's only an indicator. I think that they used some 3M glue strips as well to the removal process may not get so well


----------



## Xpenno

First coffeshot attempt, no gravy jokes please







tasted pretty good


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Are you sure that's not a rattleware shot pot being held by hobbit?


----------



## Xpenno

urbanbumpkin said:


> Are you sure that's not a rattleware shot pot being held by hobbit?


If you're saying that garydyke1 is a hobbit then it very well could be


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Sorry Gary didn't recognise you normally proportioned hands


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Mrboots2u said:


> Im going to make me own dial
> 
> Will go up to 1.. in very small increments.....


It's a good idea Boots.

how about having colours instead of numbers? You could have the full spectrum.

You could be grinding on Magenta!

.......oops .....sounds like a long weekend Ibiza in the mid 90's.


----------



## Mrboots2u

urbanbumpkin said:


> It's a good idea Boots.
> 
> how about having colours instead of numbers? You could have the full spectrum.
> 
> You could be grinding on Magenta!
> 
> .......oops .....sounds like a long weekend Ibiza in the mid 90's.


that is genius .....

today i will be grinding on melon setting

i might as well spend my time waiting for my grinder doing something constructive other than moaning about waiting for my grinder.......


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> If you're saying that garydyke1 is a hobbit then it very well could be


lol. 18 in, approx 300-350g out in ....erm 40-50 seconds.

Better than 50% of the filter coffee I have been served in the 'better' coffeeshops


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> lol. 18 in, approx 300-350g out in ....erm 40-50 seconds.
> 
> Better than 50% of the filter coffee I have been served in the 'better' coffeeshops


That was the closest my house has been to a coffee shop as well. Coffee for four! I need to improve my workflow


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Mrboots2u said:


> that is genius .....
> 
> today i will be grinding on melon setting
> 
> i might as well spend my time waiting for my grinder doing something constructive other than moaning about waiting for my grinder.......


I had also thought of grind settings based on months of the year.

Or the 12 disciples couldn't decide on whether include Judas.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Clive have you imbibed something psychotropic?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

The Systemic Kid said:


> Clive have you imbibed something psychotropic?


Possibly..... I was also considering Star signs.

I think I best have a lie down and stay away from dials.


----------



## Mrboots2u

urbanbumpkin said:


> Possibly..... I was also considering Star signs.
> 
> I think I best have a lie down and stay away from dials.


Make one using the 1966 England World Cup winning team

I'm grinding the latest Hasbean IMM on the Nobby Stiles setting .....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Nobby Stiles setting - very apt. Nobby was a bit of a grinder in his day.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Gordon Banks for Chemex


----------



## garydyke1

TANZANIA BURKA BOURBON N39 WASHED

Grind setting absolute zero (calibrated this morning) thought I would try for a laugh....

20g > 38g > 50 seconds @ 94c

Nothing happened for 32 seconds, fully choked Sage, and then suddenly a flow, last 5 seconds pressure dropped to 6 BAR as the flow was so darn quick.

Had this been any other grinder it would have been down the sink, however a tentative sip revealed sweet apple acidity and a touch of maltiness!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ah the Alf Ramsay setting ......

cripes 32 seconds is a long time for drips .....


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> TANZANIA BURKA BOURBON N39 WASHED
> 
> Grind setting absolute zero (calibrated this morning) thought I would try for a laugh....
> 
> 20g > 38g > 50 seconds @ 94c
> 
> Nothing happened for 32 seconds, fully choked Sage, and then suddenly a flow, last 5 seconds pressure dropped to 6 BAR as the flow was so darn quick.
> 
> Had this been any other grinder it would have been down the sink, however a tentative sip revealed sweet apple acidity and a touch of maltiness!


Perhaps not but watch this space for another grinder that should be up to this challenge


----------



## Mrboots2u

It is the doge....


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> Perhaps not but watch this space for another grinder that should be up to this challenge


Is this the one I'm thinking of ? A new project

During my time at coffee collective I had a chat with them about the legendary R2D2 grinder with 120mm burrs and auto vibrating bag clip, wolfing through 250g beans at espresso setting in 8 seconds. Apparently the taste isn't as refined as the EK even at cupping grind.


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> Is this the one I'm thinking of ? A new project
> 
> During my time at coffee collective I had a chat with them about the legendary R2D2 grinder with 120mm burrs and auto vibrating bag clip, wolfing through 250g beans at espresso setting in 8 seconds. Apparently the taste isn't as refined as the EK even at cupping grind.


Well I am glad that that grinder is not as refined as the ek


----------



## garydyke1

Its the future


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Ah the Alf Ramsay setting ......
> 
> cripes 32 seconds is a long time for drips .....


Its actually the bird, bird, bird, bird is the word setting


----------



## c_squared

Post removed, wrong thread, whoops.


----------



## Neill

c_squared said:


> Three bags of artisan roast and a motta 35cl teflon coated jug...
> View attachment 6741


Very nice but what's it got to do with an ek?


----------



## ronsil

You need coffee to feed the EK:exit:


----------



## dsc

I'm sure this was suppose to go in the Postie thread


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> Its the future


That's the kiddie


----------



## c_squared

dsc said:


> I'm sure this was suppose to go in the Postie thread


Sure was, the pitfalls of tapatalk...actually it was probably just me


----------



## Charliej

garydyke1 said:


> Is this the one I'm thinking of ? A new project
> 
> During my time at coffee collective I had a chat with them about the legendary R2D2 grinder with 120mm burrs and auto vibrating bag clip, wolfing through 250g beans at espresso setting in 8 seconds. Apparently the taste isn't as refined as the EK even at cupping grind.


Which of the 3 or 4 available burr sets were they using though lol, as there are coffee, espresso and turkish versions and I think one other.


----------



## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> Which of the 3 or 4 available burr sets were they using though lol, as there are coffee, espresso and turkish versions and I think one other.


The other must be pepper.....


----------



## garydyke1

Charliej said:


> Which of the 3 or 4 available burr sets were they using though lol, as there are coffee, espresso and turkish versions and I think one other.


Same as their EK43 - Coffee burrs variant . (Can also get Turkish & spice versions of the EK)


----------



## garydyke1

Is this an EK thing ? Something not noticed before : -

Chemex tastes pretty flat and almost zero sweetness, however when almost completely cold suddenly becomes extremely juicy and sweet!

Oh where is this VST refractometer i'm meant to be borrowing


----------



## coffeechap

Probably in the holding bay along with the EKs!


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Is this an EK thing ? Something not noticed before : -
> 
> Chemex tastes pretty flat and almost zero sweetness, however when almost completely cold suddenly becomes extremely juicy and sweet!
> 
> Oh where is this VST refractometer i'm meant to be borrowing


Water? Have you tried with that new stuff?


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Water? Have you tried with that new stuff?


Back on ashbeck as they havent restocked the clearview. Im very familiar with Ashbeck for brewed.

Was using 15 on the new dial - approx 8 on old dial

20g

350g water

4.5 mins


----------



## Charliej

Whats this new water and where from? Sounds interesting.


----------



## garydyke1

Charliej said:


> Whats this new water and where from? Sounds interesting.


Tesco were selling Clear View. 25p for 2 litres. Slightly preferable profile to Ashbeck and cheaper. Results were slightly improved , felt I was getting better extractions with more aroma


----------



## Charliej

garydyke1 said:


> Tesco were selling Clear View. 25p for 2 litres. Slightly preferable profile to Ashbeck and cheaper. Results were slightly improved , felt I was getting better extractions with more aroma


Hmm I'm off to Tesco shortly after having won an argument with my bank, I'll see if they have any.


----------



## tribs

I have been using Clearview for ~18 months as I have found the same improvements, but also in taste.

I too, am occasionally confronted by empty shelves, though. Ashbeck is a decent substitute, thankfully.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Back on ashbeck as they havent restocked the clearview. Im very familiar with Ashbeck for brewed.
> 
> Was using 15 on the new dial - approx 8 on old dial
> 
> 20g
> 
> 350g water
> 
> 4.5 mins


Getting great results with Ashbeck for pour over - gone over to using it for espresso too. Using 14.5 on the new dial for current pour over - Bolivian.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Look - no spritzing


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Look - no spritzing


Looking good but how does it taste


----------



## Mrboots2u

Nice clip , and where did you dig that track out from ?


----------



## garydyke1

FYI - I have asked for an accurate timescale if Turkish burrs were ordered : )


----------



## ronsil

I'm happy with my 'coffee burrs' - Don't have any need to go finer but I do appreciate having the ability to go coarser for brewed type coffee. I would probably miss that ability by using Turkish.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Looking good but how does it taste


Balanced acidity - now I can enjoy HasBean as an espresso


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Nice clip , and where did you dig that track out from ?


It's Jethro Tull. Would you believe Ian Anderson comes from Blackpool too!


----------



## Thecatlinux

The Systemic Kid said:


> It's Jethro Tull. Would you believe Ian Anderson comes from Blackpool too!


 Bit of Tull on a Friday night , that brings back memories


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thecatlinux said:


> Bit of Tull on a Friday night , that brings back memories


Stand Up was the first album I bought - Mrs Systemic had bought Benefit as hers so we were made for each other


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> I'm happy with my 'coffee burrs' - Don't have any need to go finer but I do appreciate having the ability to go coarser for brewed type coffee. I would probably miss that ability by using Turkish.


John Gordon has suggested that the Turkish burrs offer a wide enough range for all brewed coffee , and , a preferable profile for espresso . No harm asking price and timescales : )


----------



## garydyke1

There is a rumour this thread is going to explode with activity Tuesday onwards!


----------



## ronsil

Someone's going to get a delivery then?


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> There is a rumour this thread is going to explode with activity Tuesday onwards!


There's going to be a few posties with sore backs around that time


----------



## coffeechap

thats all we need more EKky thump


----------



## jeebsy

I'm bursting with EKcitement


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Rumour someone's blagged 7kgs of stale beans. Wonder what they're for??


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Rumour someone's blagged 7kgs of stale beans. Wonder what they're for??


Not stale ones...gonna have to drink em all when you come round


----------



## jeebsy

I've got 1.5kg just now, currently trying to scrounge more


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> thats all we need more EKky thump


You referring to Jack White??


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:



> Not stale ones...gonna have to drink em all when you come round


I'll be bouncing off the walls.....no change there then.


----------



## garydyke1

Coffee Collective Espresso 2. Sage switched on for about 8 mins, portafilter warm but not hot.

20g

42g

28 secs

93c

no preinfusion , just standard vibe ramp-up.

Behaved wonderfully, no sudden gushing towards the end of the shot, nice and even throughout.

Tasted exactly as I remember from their Strada and Robur combo, perhaps not as viscous as the shot from their Kees Spirit 2 Group, I would suggest more expressive and open.

Although light, these Nordic beans are fully developed and very hard to extract bitterness from, perfect match for the EK.


----------



## Xpenno

ronsil said:


> I'm happy with my 'coffee burrs' - Don't have any need to go finer but I do appreciate having the ability to go coarser for brewed type coffee. I would probably miss that ability by using Turkish.


Spent a fair few hours in Colonna & Smalls this weekend annoying Maxwell. They are using Turkish burrs for all of their brewed coffee as well as their EK Lungo beverage. Maxwell also said that there wasn't much difference between Turkish or Coffee and both burrs behave quite similarly although the Turkish go finer. Over two days I tasted all three of their espressos, all three filters, the lungo and a couple of shots of their iced filter brew every beverage was of the highest quality and the espresso was just divine. If you are in the area then you really should pop in and check the place out it was such a relaxed atmosphere, and everyone is so friendly, now I just need to up my game


----------



## garydyke1

Awesome. No worries about the Turks being suitable for brewed then.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Awesome. No worries about the Turks being suitable for brewed then.


Nope, none at all.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Awesome. No worries about the Turks being suitable for brewed then.


In fact, I don't think they were going that course at all.... I was pretty hungover and had already drank a load of coffee when I was chatting to him about the EK but he's got a 3fe dial and was around 4.5 for his lungo extraction, time 19 seconds, can't remember output weight but it looked like 50g or so. I think he said he was only going out to 6-7 for filter which I believe was dripped or aero-press. Didn't talk too much about brewed as it's not really my thing but the EK was all they used and they certainly brewed pour over (looked like v60), aeropress, some kind of syphon and a cold drip.


----------



## garydyke1

7 sounds about right for aero press


----------



## jeebsy

7 on the 3fe dial?


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> 7 on the 3fe dial?


yup, on Turkish.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Londinium Brazilian Fazenda Passeio

18.5grms - 40grms out - grind setting 2.75 - nutating and light tamp.

6-7 sec pre-infusion + 27secs. First drips appearing 7 secs after lever released.

Extraction yield 22.5% result!







- incredible sweetness in flat white. Would have sworn it had sugar added to it - lovely figgy aftertaste.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Londinium Brazilian Fazenda Passeio
> 
> 18.5grms - 40grms out - grind setting 2.75 - nutating and light tamp.
> 
> 6-7 sec pre-infusion + 27secs. First drips appearing 7 secs after lever released.
> 
> Extraction yield 22.5% result!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - incredible sweetness in flat white. Would have sworn it had sugar added to it - lovely figgy aftertaste.


Looking forward to getting my hands on mine permanently







Sounds very good indeed. I think we're going to need a new sub-forum so that we not get on everyone's nerves with all of our EK banter


----------



## jeebsy

Would be taking tomorrow and Wednesday off if I got annual leave, feels like Christmas is coming


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Would be taking tomorrow and Wednesday off if I got annual leave, feels like Christmas is coming


Have you got a shed load of stale beans to season the burrs, jeebsy?


----------



## jeebsy

Not quite a shed load, only about 2kg at present. Maybe a rabbit hutch load.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

It's a start.....


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> It's a start.....


Less posting , more roasting .......


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Less posting , more roasting .......


Just remember, the grinder should not run for more than 45 minutes, lol!


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Just remember, the grinder should not run for more than 45 minutes, lol!


easily 50 kgs


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Just remember, the grinder should not run for more than 45 minutes, lol!


Dread to think how hot the burrs would get running through 45mins worth of beans. Ran 750 grms through in one go - the grind was noticeably warm to the touch.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Less posting , more roasting .......


I'm on strike - sit down protest.


----------



## garydyke1

COSTA RICA FINCA DE LICHO YELLOW HONEY VILA SARCHI

20g

42.5g - split 2 x singles

18 seconds (yes 18)

93c

pre-infusion off.

Shot started well and then 13 seconds in erupted into a gush with pressure dropping to 7BAR.

God shots. Aroma of cherry, raspberry and peppermint!

Palate , sweet , balanced , clean, raspberry acidity and gentle milk chocolate on the finish.

Madness, absolute madness.

worth noting I tried a new technique of holding the funnel just above the basket, rather than having the funnel sit in the basket and make a mess when removing it.


----------



## garydyke1

No tracking details issued today : ( Been too busy to chase anything


----------



## jeebsy

Think they've not been dispatched or just no details sent out?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Think they've not been dispatched or just no details sent out?


Dunno mate, not heard anything. I had presumed a tracking email was due today but I have had hoppers turn up and the tracking notice follow after!


----------



## jeebsy

Fingers crossed, it would be like Santa getting delayed otherwise









This shaft that needs greasing, what type of grease is best?


----------



## garydyke1

Don't do what I did and sell your grinder too quickly expecting a delivery, the EK will need loads of seasoning to settle down


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Fingers crossed, it would be like Santa getting delayed otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shaft that needs greasing, what type of grease is best?


It's good old fashioned Vaseline Jeebsy - honest


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Sorry, should have added - that comes from the EK manual.


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Fingers crossed, it would be like Santa getting delayed otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This shaft that needs greasing, what type of grease is best?


I recommend doing this while the grinder is pretty clean as well. Once the coffee dust builds up inside it can stick to everything making it a pain to clean down. Having said that if you do clean everything properly then it should be minimal fuss. To get the carrier out I part-screwed two screws from the case of my mazzer doser into the base of the burr carrier. This then gives you something nice and easy to lever it out against. the manual just say stick a screwdriver in which I wasn't so pleased about, my was is much easier.


----------



## jeebsy

If it comes tomorrow it'll be too late for coffee anyway so will try that first. Expect lots of 'help! I've broken my EK' type posts.


----------



## Xpenno

I bottled it and phoned a friend


----------



## funinacup

Did you order through a group buy jeebsy?


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> Don't do what I did and sell your grinder too quickly expecting a delivery, the EK will need loads of seasoning to settle down


No suck drama for the conical kid xpenno then!


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> No suck drama for the conical kid xpenno then!


The Conical Kid, love it. Really enjoying the K10 and I'm looking forward to some side-by-side action soon


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Over to the other end of the grind spectrum for pour over. Using HasBean's Tanzanian Burka Block C Bourbon N39.

Yesterday's breakfast brew of 29grms gave an extraction yield of 20.70%. Very pleasant chocolatey mouthfeel with a figgy aftertaste - no cherries or black forest gateau though.

This morning: 31grms in - 440grms out in 3min 45secs with grind setting on 15 (2 settings off max setting of 17).

TDS 1.35% - Extraction 19.96%

Bang! Velvety chocolate in abundance with black forest gateau/cherries - out of this world.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> The Conical Kid, love it. Really enjoying the K10 and I'm looking forward to some side-by-side action soon


Conical Kid riding into the sunset - Yeehah!

View attachment 6975


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> The Conical Kid, love it. Really enjoying the K10 and I'm looking forward to some side-by-side action soon


Ill be the kenco kid then....

My delivery seems to be in Chorely currently , i fear Charlie has hi jacked it


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Ill be the kenco kid then....
> 
> My delivery seems to be in Chorely currently , i fear Charlie has hi jacked it


Mines in Worcester , equally a mission from intended postcode


----------



## jeebsy

Mine left from Glasgow east. Fortunately Glasgow east to Glasgow west is only about 200 yards


----------



## oop north

A tense day for you all, eh? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet? Is it nearly here yet?


----------



## ronsil

Once all these EKs have landed can we ask Glenn for a new sub-forum, otherwise we will drive everyone else crazy.


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> Once all these EKs have landed can we ask Glenn for a new sub-forum, otherwise we will drive everyone else crazy.


With envy yes!


----------



## tribs

I have a delivery ....


----------



## coffeechap

Ah the quiet one comes to the party!!


----------



## coffeechap

ronsil said:


> Once all these EKs have landed can we ask Glenn for a new sub-forum, otherwise we will drive everyone else crazy.


Won't stop the comments coming up on view latest posts, have a private group instead


----------



## jeebsy

Just keep the chat in here, then the 'haters' can still get their vicarious ek fix


----------



## coffeechap

Who's hating I have a bigger beast coming!!!


----------



## oop north

If tribs is in Bury and got his, and Mr Boots' was in Chorley earlier, does that mean Mr Boots is going in the wrong direction, away from Lancaster?


----------



## jeebsy

Mine has arrived. Unfortunately I have another five hours of work left.


----------



## Obnic

jeebsy said:


> Mine has arrived. Unfortunately I have another five hours of work left.


You're looking a bit peeky mate. Perhaps you'd better go home and rest up.


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> I have a delivery ....


and you have mine : (


----------



## garydyke1

If anyone wants a black one I can you do a crazy good price : )


----------



## tribs




----------



## tribs

I have a post with a photo in moderation. How do I avoid that?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Mine has arrived. Unfortunately I have another five hours of work left.


Is it the right colour?


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Is it the right colour?


Won't know til half 5



Obnic said:


> You're looking a bit peeky mate. Perhaps you'd better go home and rest up.


I'm a contractor, if I leave I don't get paid and given the ek has just been paid for every minute counts!


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> and you have mine : (


It looks good in white


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> It looks good in white


Just remember who did all the work getting these ; ( lol


----------



## garydyke1

Question is ....whos going to buy one next.....? Place your bets now...


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> Just remember who did all the work getting these ; ( lol


:worship:

13 chars


----------



## tribs

tribs said:


> It looks good in white


You'll be able to see for yourself when the mods moderate my post with pic.


----------



## jeebsy

Boots won't do it, he'll be too jealous


----------



## Charliej

jeebsy said:


> Boots won't do it, he'll be too jealous


Either that or on the train to Chorley lol.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

tribs said:


> I have a post with a photo in moderation. How do I avoid that?


Should be visible now, Tribs. Put your sunglasses on


----------



## Mrboots2u

No Ek , i have a Patrick here .....

Making him practices latte art

we are running out of things to refractometer

Postman came though with a bill and a pouring kettle

thanks for all the twitter grief........


----------



## MarkyP

Mrboots2u said:


> No Ek , i have a Patrick here .....
> 
> Making him practices latte art
> 
> we are running out of things to refractometer
> 
> Postman came though with a bill and a pouring kettle
> 
> thanks for all the twitter grief........


Good things come to those who wait...


----------



## Mrboots2u

So far we have made 2 chemex's , latte art for days

now onto syphons...........

Fricking Chorley isn't that far away....


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> So far we have made 2 chemex's , latte art for days
> 
> now onto syphons...........
> 
> Fricking Chorley isn't that far away....


I would have rather waited a few more hours for the right colour!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> I would have rather waited a few more hours for the right colour!


Is someone going to do Gary a swap?


----------



## garydyke1

Yes the one remaining EK will be white so can be swapped, although it looks like they don't actually want one anymore! Expect a 'for sale' ad in the next few weeks!


----------



## jeebsy

tribs said:


>


Love the star wars vibe off it, and the fact you got the wrong one but just cracked on with it anyway!


----------



## jeebsy

.....and mine is the right colour.


----------



## MarkyP

garydyke1 said:


> Yes the one remaining EK will be white so can be swapped, although it looks like they don't actually want one anymore! Expect a 'for sale' ad in the next few weeks!


I'd be interested...


----------



## Mrboots2u

Waiting


----------



## oop north

Did I mention I sailed right past the second time I came to visit? I reckon the delivery van has gone past, tried to turn round at the junction (which is hideously tight) and been hit by a passing cyclist, breaking the EK! The driver is too scared to tell you....


----------



## garydyke1

oop north said:


> Did I mention I sailed right past the second time I came to visit? I reckon the delivery van has gone past, tried to turn round at the junction (which is hideously tight) and been hit by a passing cyclist, breaking the EK! The driver is too scared to tell you....


You cant break EKs


----------



## Charliej

oop north said:


> Did I mention I sailed right past the second time I came to visit? I reckon the delivery van has gone past, tried to turn round at the junction (which is hideously tight) and been hit by a passing cyclist, breaking the EK! The driver is too scared to tell you....


Nope I dropped them a note saying make Bootsy's delivery the last one of the day as he's has had so much practice waiting for grinders


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> You cant break EKs


EKs break you


----------



## oop north

garydyke1 said:


> You cant break EKs


Bet I could....


----------



## tribs

Does seasoning increase how fine it will grind?


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> Does seasoning increase how fine it will grind?


I was waiting for this, lol.

Have you 'zero'd' the burrs?

Bare in mind 1-2 (10 micro notches) is your espresso range. Dont try the usual 1.6 ratio in 30 seconds , that isnt the goal here.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

tribs said:


> Does seasoning increase how fine it will grind?


Run at least 5kg through minimum - 7-10kg is better then re-zero burrs by backing off 10 degrees from chirping contact.


----------



## oop north

News, we need news!


----------



## Mrboots2u

oop north said:


> News, we need news!


Not here









Spoken to fedex my delivery was meant to be no 17 out of 77. But it appears the driver has gone off piste and is delivering randomly and not to his route...last two deliveries were no 62 and no 8 on the router ??????

I've sent Patrick home rather than waste time waiting for it to turn up.....

But there are worse ways to spend a day other than making Chemex ,syphon, espresso and latte art , all in the charming and generous company of Mr Savage .

Patrick thanks for your time ( and the dodgy scales )

They have Til 6.30 tonight to deliver so fingers crossed .

Glad all you guys have got yours safe and sound though







enjoy the coffee .

I'm off to do something else other than staring out the window for the last 7 hours ....


----------



## tribs

zero (1) actually gave 1.6 in 30 secs of Intelligentsia Black Cat.

zero'd the burrs, but they were pretty much spot on from factory.

I've never gone coarser on the SJ than this bean...

But, as expected, incredible sweetness







and really clear almond notes. Seems like a totally different bean. Messy pours though


----------



## jeebsy

Sounds like the spouts might be back out


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> zero (1) actually gave 1.6 in 30 secs of Intelligentsia Black Cat.
> 
> zero'd the burrs, but they were pretty much spot on from factory.
> 
> I've never gone coarser on the SJ than this bean...
> 
> But, as expected, incredible sweetness
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and really clear almond notes. Seems like a totally different bean. Messy pours though


What dose and basket are you using, and what distribution technique?


----------



## tribs

Now trying SM Reko (filter roast)

18g > 50g in 22 secs at zero (1).

Fruit is abundant on the nose and noticable in the mouth, pomegranate maybe? The almond is there too. Not as sweet as Black Cat and acidity is stronger (you'd expect this from this bean)

Added some perfectly textured milk (if I do say so myself) and wow, best flat white I've had in ages. So fruity and sweet.

What next? I've got some well rested SM Kochere







Hasbean Jaberwocky, SM Huila, and Sugar Glider.


----------



## tribs

jeebsy said:


> Sounds like the spouts might be back out


That's a good call


----------



## garydyke1

I find if you chase visually good pours on the naked then you wont get the best cup.


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> What dose and basket are you using, and what distribution technique?


18g in 18g VST.

I'm using a cocktail shaker to collect grounds and then pouring these into the basket carefully, so I end up with a slight central mound. Vertical tap to settle and then straight flat tamp. Same As I would with the SJ or Anfim.


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> I find if you chase visually good pours on the naked then you wont get the best cup.


Absolutely spot on with that statement.

I spent crazy hours overnight(s) trying to get single plumes & when I did achieve it the taste was no improvement.


----------



## ronsil

tribs said:


> cocktail shaker to collect grounds and then pouring these into the basket carefully, so I end up with a slight central mound. Vertical tap to settle and then straight flat tamp.


I find an Aeropress funnel just sits in my 53mm PF & I tip from the cocktail shaker direct into the funnel. Next shake the funnel gently tapping the bottom onto the edges of the PF. Carefully remove slowly & you achieve a fluffy mound of grinds which I then swipe around edges & finish with one light direct tamp. This works well with a 21 g basket using 20 g in & 28-30 g out for espresso. Time is circa 30 seconds including 3 secs pre infusion but I just let it run.


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> I find if you chase visually good pours on the naked then you wont get the best cup.


That is unless you have an L1, ha ha


----------



## tribs

I found a 58mm lens hood fit the PF perfectly, but when I poured from the cocktail shaker no grounds landed on the "funnel" so have stopped using it. The carefulness is more to achieve an even mound than to spilling grounds.


----------



## jeebsy

This sounds like faffing, the EK was supposed to get rid of this!


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> That is unless you have an L1, ha ha


I get can amazing looking pours on the Sage but they dont always taste great that way. Spouts on and follow the flavours (and soon % from the refact)


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> I found a 58mm lens hood fit the PF perfectly, but when I poured from the cocktail shaker no grounds landed on the "funnel" so have stopped using it. The carefulness is more to achieve an even mound than to spilling grounds.


why not grind directly into portafilter/hood ?


----------



## ronsil

When you thwack the lever to clear the grinds in the chute, don't you find the grinds go all over the place from the moving chute?


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> When you thwack the lever to clear the grinds in the chute, don't you find the grinds go all over the place from the moving chute?


Not with the correctly angled funnel in place : )


----------



## garydyke1

Whats that I hear?!?! A fedex van has been reported to have arrived at a farm with a large box?!


----------



## Charliej

garydyke1 said:


> Whats that I hear?!?! A fedex van has been reported to have arrived at a farm with a large box?!


Bootsy is having his house delivered to the EK now ?


----------



## Mrboots2u




----------



## Thecatlinux

Mrboots is happy now


----------



## Mrboots2u




----------



## Thecatlinux

Want some unpacking photos too


----------



## Daren

Whoop whoop!! Santa's here!!


----------



## Mrboots2u

I demand a refund...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> I demand a refund...


Yeah - of course you do

You realise the resale value of your 'new' grinder has plummeted.


----------



## Mrboots2u

People laughed at me when I said Id have the large hopper...


----------



## garydyke1

How many kilos so far ?!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Lets get this done then.....


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> How many kilos so far ?!


About 7kg in got about 4-5 more to go


----------



## jeebsy




----------



## jeebsy

Some coffee cafe out when I powered it on


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> why not grind directly into portafilter/hood ?


Will try that tomorrow


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Some coffee cafe out when I powered it on


Nothing to worry about - factory runs tests on each machine.


----------



## jeebsy

Tried to get the front off to give the shaft a good lubing but only got a shit screwdriver here and I learned my lesson regarding shit screwdrivers with the Mignon. My mum just came in and asked if i'd make her a coffee - not sure how to explain this....


----------



## tribs

jeebsy said:


> Some coffee cafe out when I powered it on


It says in the manual they test with coffee in the factory. Mine was covered in coffee dust.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Spence's tip of using a couple of bolts to thread into the outer burr to remove it off the shaft is by far and away the best method.


----------



## Daren

jeebsy said:


>


You've gotta like that! Looks almost friendly in white (like a bear looks friendly - until it rips your head off)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Boots' EK is a blind - this is his real secret coffee stash.

View attachment 6991


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Tried to get the front off to give the shaft a good lubing but only got a shit screwdriver here and I learned my lesson regarding shit screwdrivers with the Mignon. My mum just came in and asked if i'd make her a coffee - not sure how to explain this....


Try explaining this ....


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Boots' EK is a blind - this is his real secret coffee stash.
> 
> View attachment 6991


The joys of having a a partner who can't tolerate caffeine ....


----------



## oop north

The Systemic Kid said:


> Boots' EK is a blind - this is his real secret coffee stash.
> 
> View attachment 6991


He never offered me any of that - is he keeping the good stuff for special guests?


----------



## jeebsy

2kg of coffee reduced to dust in a matter of not very long










Wee sweetener for mummy


----------



## MarkyP

Mrboots2u said:


> Lets get this done then.....


Happy?

Pulled any shots in anger yet?

Edit: must have posted at the same time!


----------



## Big O

> Lets get this done then.....


----------



## jeebsy

Over dinner my mum asked if the EK was a new addition...had a discussion about grinder aesthetics. She says she likes Mazzer and the EK looks like an aeroplane engine. Good thing i've only got the EK to 'try out' for a while...


----------



## Mrboots2u

first shot 19 g in 32 out 25 second and 3 seconds pre infusion ... bit of blonde in the cup

Crazy sweetness....

Sorry pump guys but dead centre naked pf extraction

Not a zero point yet not calibrated either ......


----------



## oop north

How do I block this thread so I fail to be lured by the sweetness on offer from an ek/LI pairing?


----------



## coffeechap

Boots stop messing with your grinder and sort out the latte art thread


----------



## Big O

Oh the influx of the future second hand grinders


----------



## The Systemic Kid

oop north said:


> He never offered me any of that - is he keeping the good stuff for special guests?


Yes..........


----------



## The Systemic Kid

oop north said:


> How do I block this thread so I fail to be lured by the sweetness on offer from an ek/LI pairing?


You can't Tim


----------



## Walter Sobchak

Mrboots2u said:


> Lets get this done then.....


Wow that's a fast grinder! Should I be doing this with my new Mythos too?


----------



## oop north

The Systemic Kid said:


> You can't Tim


<puts fingers in ears and walks slowly away humming tunelessly></puts>


----------



## ronsil

Mrboots2u said:


> but dead centre naked pf extraction .


What number on your dial did you use for this?


----------



## Mrboots2u

seasoning an ek part 2 ...

run out of bags and stuff

[video=youtube;4MJ-qXiF76s]


----------



## Mrboots2u

ronsil said:


> What number on your dial did you use for this?


am on 1.3 I think

havent re calibrated and extractions are still on the gushing side in terms of speed ( bit not reflected in taste )

got some clips etc


----------



## CallumT

coffeechap said:


> That is unless you have an L1, ha ha


Spotted this, chuckled. Thought I'd let the world know. Don't think I can post a video to hear on tapatalk


----------



## CallumT

In terms of settings you need to but at for some beans from prong at the moment I'm back at 2.3 on my dial; what you need to remember is rate of extraction is quicker so 30sec plus is often over extracted.

My recipes are around 6s infusion times and 30s total dose and yield varying with coffees


----------



## Mrboots2u

CallumT said:



> In terms of settings you need to but at for some beans from prong at the moment I'm back at 2.3 on my dial; what you need to remember is rate of extraction is quicker so 30sec plus is often over extracted.
> 
> My recipes are around 6s infusion times and 30s total dose and yield varying with coffees


With one pull?

Are you pulling at blinding point ?


----------



## Xpenno

CallumT said:


> In terms of settings you need to but at for some beans from prong at the moment I'm back at 2.3 on my dial; what you need to remember is rate of extraction is quicker so 30sec plus is often over extracted.
> 
> My recipes are around 6s infusion times and 30s total dose and yield varying with coffees


Thanks for the tips. I can still taste the blueberry espresso you made at Rave when we were there for the day, nom.


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> With one pull?
> 
> Are you pulling at blinding point ?


Oi biatches this isn't an L1 thread!!!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Oi biatches this isn't an L1 thread!!!


Jel.......................


----------



## drude

Mrboots2u said:


> seasoning an ek part 2 ...
> 
> run out of bags and stuff
> 
> [video=youtube;4MJ-qXiF76s]


That's all very well, but to get a real sense of how fast it is, can you post a vid of grinding the same amount of beans on your Hausgrind?


----------



## Mrboots2u

drude said:


> That's all very well, but to get a real sense of how fast it is, can you post a vid of grinding the same amount of beans on your Hausgrind?


Lol now thats funny.............


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Jel.......................


Wel....................


----------



## tribs

CallumT said:


> In terms of settings you need to but at for some beans from prong at the moment I'm back at 2.3 on my dial


Please translate


----------



## oop north

Xpenno said:


> Oi biatches this isn't an L1 thread!!!


When the Lancashire Lever Louts are about, every thread is an LI thread!


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Wel....................


You had a chance


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Thanks for the tips. I can still taste the blueberry espresso you made at Rave when we were there for the day, nom.


Quicker shots are deffo the way to go : )


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> Quicker shots are deffo the way to go : )


So we should be aiming for ~25secs and lungo length as a starting point?


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> So we should be aiming for ~25secs and lungo length as a starting point?


Try 18 > 35-40 in 20, 23, 25 and see what tastes good.


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Try 18 > 35-40 in 20, 23, 25 and see what tastes good.


Whether it blondes or not ?


----------



## Obnic

oop north said:


> How do I block this thread so I fail to be lured by the sweetness on offer from an ek/LI pairing?


Exact same thought here


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Whether it blondes or not ?


Have you seen the video footage of coffee shots ?!


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Have you seen the video footage of coffee shots ?!


It trying to make a coffee shot ...


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> It trying to make a coffee shot ...


My best EK shots are pretty much watery for the last 5 seconds , lol . We don't all have declining pressure and flow profiles


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> You had a chance


Yup, I'm still not convinced it's the best option for the EK at this stage, if I was I'd have one on my bench already. Need more convincing/hands-on with one


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Whether it blondes or not ?


Forget the old rules boots, the word blonding is not required in EK-Land


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Yup, I'm still not convinced it's the best option for the EK at this stage, if I was I'd have one on my bench already. Need more convincing/hands-on with one


Rotary might be better than vibe , I also need more hands on time with one of those : )


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> My best EK shots are pretty much watery for the last 5 seconds , lol . We don't all have declining pressure and flow profiles


Should have said not trying to make a coffee shot ...

I'll load up the first shot pulled as a critique

It tasted pretty sweet , was fast and blondes a ton at the end

Not in the slighter bit sour tho


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Rotary might be better than vibe , I also need more hands on time with one of those : )


Well quit working so hard and get round mine at some point


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Should have said not trying to make a coffee shot ...
> 
> I'll load up the first shot pulled as a critique
> 
> It tasted pretty sweet , was fast and blondes a ton at the end
> 
> Not in the slighter bit sour tho


Sourness is a thing of the past with these through extractions . Hello balanced acidity and crazy sweetness


----------



## jeebsy




----------



## The Systemic Kid

Jeez, jeebsy - how big is your Chemex??


----------



## Geordie Boy

Reminds me of the comment that you should never buy a white car as it really shows the dirt easily


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Forget the old rules boots, the word blonding is not required in EK-Land


Ok here was the first shot after seasoning then .......

noisy pump

Ugly boots

dirty pf, clip upside down ..... yadda yadda

[video=youtube;-GpBZTF2wIA]


----------



## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> Reminds me of the comment that you should never buy a white car as it really shows the dirt easily


Exactly why I went for a black one. They do generate quite a bit of dust.


----------



## Geordie Boy

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok here was the first shot after seasoning then .......
> 
> noisy pump
> 
> Ugly boots
> 
> dirty pf, clip upside down ..... yadda yadda


At least you filmed it in landscape mode! I can't stand videos shot in portrait...they're called widescreen TVs for a reason


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok here was the first shot after seasoning then .......
> 
> noisy pump
> 
> Ugly boots
> 
> dirty pf, clip upside down ..... yadda yadda
> 
> [video=youtube;-GpBZTF2wIA]


Looks great mate, L1s certainly have nice looking shots most of the time.


----------



## garydyke1

Geordie Boy said:


> Reminds me of the comment that you should never buy a white car as it really shows the dirt easily


Itll make you clean it more


----------



## Geordie Boy

garydyke1 said:


> Itll make you clean it more


Is that a reference to the missus then


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> Exactly why I went for a black one. They do generate quite a bit of dust.


Mine got a bit messy today but putting that down to grinding 3+ kilos in to plastic bags.

Wee sweep with a pastry brush and all was right again though.


----------



## garydyke1

Time for people to amend their signatures


----------



## ronsil

i did spray mine with food safe 'anti-static' & left overnight to completely dry out. Seems to stop the dust adhering.

I also keep a Dyson Handheld with a small brush attachment in the coffee cupboard.

Great machine not essential but very useful


----------



## jeebsy

Pulled my first couple of shots this morning. Reckon about 3.5-4kg went through it yesterday.

18g of Londinium Rwanda into about 45 in 37 secs at about 1.3 on the dial. Held the PF under the grinder with a makeshift dosing funnel in it - quite a bit of splashback and machine needed a wee brush down after. Shot was a bit more traditional than expected, no gushing but think there might have been a deadspot or two. Shot was very tasty though, much cleaner than the ones I had yesterday with more of a sweetness at the end.















Pulled a second, ground into a cocktail shaker then into the PF. Much cleaner. Got about 47 out in 40 seconds. Again very nice.

Think the grinder needs to be set a bit coarser and shorten the extractions a bit?


----------



## jeebsy

What size are the cocktail shaker bottoms people are using? From a few of the pics they look a bit mini. Noticed on ebay you can get sizes from 250ml - 750ml


----------



## Mrboots2u

These are useful..they fit in the basket


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Pulled my first couple of shots this morning. Reckon about 3.5-4kg went through it yesterday.
> 
> 18g of Londinium Rwanda into about 45 in 37 secs at about 1.3 on the dial. Held the PF under the grinder with a makeshift dosing funnel in it - quite a bit of splashback and machine needed a wee brush down after. Shot was a bit more traditional than expected, no gushing but think there might have been a deadspot or two. Shot was very tasty though, much cleaner than the ones I had yesterday with more of a sweetness at the end.


Nice tiger striping there jeebsy.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> What size are the cocktail shaker bottoms people are using? From a few of the pics they look a bit mini. Noticed on ebay you can get sizes from 250ml - 750ml


Mine is 200ml vol capacity and measures 60mm in diameter. I can fit the portafilter plus basket on it and flip over without any grind falling out. Much easier and quicker than using the dosing funnel.


----------



## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> These are useful..they fit in the basket


What are they?

Thanks Patrick - I'll try to find one that size.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Pots from co op pannacotta desert . I've got loads here ( fat git )

Want one .


----------



## jeebsy

Think of the cholesterol!

I'll try a co op here and see if they have them, if not that would be great


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Think of the cholesterol!
> 
> I'll try a co op here and see if they have them, if not that would be great


Actually tell a lie they might be sainsburys ....

Yes I think mrs b is trying to finish me off .

To be fair she absolutely didn't bat an eye lid yesterday , as she knew something new coffee related was coming ....

Takes all the stuff I buy now in her stride ( or is the angriest woman alive and very quiet about it )


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> What are they?
> 
> Thanks Patrick - I'll try to find one that size.


Got mine from Callum. If you can't find one am sure Callum will sort one for you.


----------



## Big O

Fran & Calllum had a good set-up and technique at LCF on the Londonium stand whereby he'd grind into one of those metal cups that Boots has in his pic, place a jam funnel on the PF, scatter the grounds around the slant of the funnel, and wiggle the funnel out which distributed into the PF nicely. erm what am I doing?!...I don't even have an EK43! am not going to lie, it is mouth watering reading all this jibber jabber!


----------



## coffeechap

Big O said:


> Fran & Calllum had a good set-up and technique at LCF on the Londonium stand whereby he'd grind into one of those metal cups that Boots has in his pic, place a jam funnel on the PF, scatter the grounds around the slant of the funnel, and wiggle the funnel out which distributed into the PF nicely. erm what am I doing?!...I don't even have an EK43! am not going to lie, it is mouth watering reading all this jibber jabber!


You do have a mahlkonig though so must give you some rights


----------



## Obnic

Big O said:


> .....erm what am I doing?!...I don't even have an EK43! am not going to lie, it is mouth watering reading all this jibber jabber!


I know! It's a new form of masochistic coffee voyerism. I just can't stop reading.


----------



## Big O

coffeechap said:


> You do have a mahlkonig though so must give you some rights


ah das ist richtig herr coffeechap but still..









I am happy with my short stubby new love, not ready for that tall slender beast just yet!


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> These are useful..they fit in the basket


Potential distribution issues using tubs or funnels that fit inside the basket. Gary will no doubt chime in but he was getting much better results from not having something disturbing the edges of the soon to be puck.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Fair point spence , not getting spritzed using these tho .

I'll do a clip of prep for some critique and see if any improvement can be had ....


----------



## Xpenno

Ran a couple of shots of Coffee Collective Espresso 2 last night.

20g -> 35g and 45g in about 30 seconds. Both tasted great, not so much sweetness, it just tasted like a fantastic 'plain' espresso. It doesn't have anything wild going on flavour-wise but it's not supposed to have. Might try going a bit faster on the pour tonight and see what happens.


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Fair point spence , not getting spritzed using these tho .
> 
> I'll do a clip of prep for some critique and see if any improvement can be had ....


Gary and I were talking yesterday about this, as with most things EK, it a theory in progress









He found that by holding a dosing funnel (which fits pretty much perfectly in the PF) above the basket when dosing the extractions were much tastier. Nothing to do with spritz or anything else. Even after all these months (well it seams like months) with my EK Gary is still learning. It's a brave new world out there.

The good news is that coffee is consistently more tasty and it's just a case of improving workflow and perfecting taste.


----------



## garydyke1

Distribution - oh so important with other grinders, seems to be something EK owners are taking liberties with.

Spence have you trialed EK output through the doser on the K10 ?

Im going to knock up something which is 1% of the cost of a ''coffee catcha'' but does the same job and allows grinding direct into the basket. The key is not to leave a deadpace around the edge of the basket.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Distribution - oh so important with other grinders, seems to be something EK owners are taking liberties with.
> 
> Spence have you trialed EK output through the doser on the K10 ?
> 
> Im going to knock up something which is 1% of the cost of a ''coffee catcha'' but does the same job and allows grinding direct into the basket. The key is not to leave a deadpace around the edge of the basket.


Nope but I will tonight. I have installed the clean sweep mods on it so it's good to go.


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Distribution - oh so important with other grinders, seems to be something EK owners are taking liberties with.
> 
> Spence have you trialed EK output through the doser on the K10 ?
> 
> Im going to knock up something which is 1% of the cost of a ''coffee catcha'' but does the same job and allows grinding direct into the basket. The key is not to leave a deadpace around the edge of the basket.


Ok cool ....count me in for those

Nutating should sael the edges too though .


----------



## garydyke1

If you remember chucking 18g through the Anfim doser it was a struggle to fit it in the 18g VST, needed collapsing 2 or 3 times and even then was trouble, compared to the grind > pot > basket where 18g barely filled 4/5 of the basket.


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok cool ....count me in for those
> 
> Nutating should sael the edges too though .


Nutating is another variable , dont need more variables : )


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> Distribution - oh so important with other grinders, seems to be something EK owners are taking liberties with.
> 
> Spence have you trialed EK output through the doser on the K10 ?
> 
> Im going to knock up something which is 1% of the cost of a ''coffee catcha'' but does the same job and allows grinding direct into the basket. The key is not to leave a deadpace around the edge of the basket.


58 mm metal lens hood does the job gary and easy to get of eBay!


----------



## Charliej

Either Tesco or Asda sell some small stainless steel tooth mugs which look to be about the right size for you guys with the EK43's. I made myself something similar to a coffee catcha out of the body of a small clear plastic tub I bought a pack of for 99p, I'm still using the 1st one I made just under a year ago, the plastic is thin enough to not leave a nasty dead space when you remove it as the grinds just fall back into the very small space. I'll try and post some photos later on.


----------



## tribs

coffeechap said:


> 58 mm metal lens hood does the job gary and easy to get of eBay!


That's what I've got and I'm gonna try it once I've figured out what I'm meant to be greasing, followed by some seasoning.


----------



## jeebsy

I tried grinding straight into the pf with a lens hood/ yoghurt pot device this morning and got a lot of splash back


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> I tried grinding straight into the pf with a lens hood/ yoghurt pot device this morning and got a lot of splash back


The static / spray settles down with more use. The correct angle funnel with right size opening is key to this technique.

Spence - post the picture of yours if you can.


----------



## Ralphus84

He He you said



jeebsy said:


> splash back


Sorry I'm being immature!


----------



## Xpenno

This is the only mobile pic I could find of that funnel...


----------



## jeebsy

Ralphus84 said:


> He He you said
> 
> Sorry I'm being immature!


It's official EK43 terminology.

Gary, it just seemed to spit the grinds out so fast they were bound to go flying. I'll try again though.

As an aside, rather than pushing the on button all the way in I've just been pushing it halfway and 'pulsing' it on for 2-3 secs while it grinds. Is this bad in any way?


----------



## Charliej

Ron,

Out of interest what is the food safe anti static spray you used I might give that a go on my all metal Hausgrind if the static in the collection cup doesn't get better with use.


----------



## tribs

What grind setting should I be seasoning at. Finest?


----------



## Xpenno

tribs said:


> What grind setting should I be seasoning at. Finest?


Normally not as tight as finest. There is no hard and fast rule as far as I am aware. I'd be looking at 3-4 on the standard dial personally.


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> As an aside, rather than pushing the on button all the way in I've just been pushing it halfway and 'pulsing' it on for 2-3 secs while it grinds. Is this bad in any way?


It might cause a problem for your house, my lights dim temporarily when I start the grinder up! I'd imagine that it's not great for it either, electrical things tend break the more you turn them on and off as you are stressing them.


----------



## ronsil

Charliej said:


> Ron,Out of interest what is the food safe anti static spray you used I might give that a go on my all metal Hausgrind if the static in the collection cup doesn't get better with use.


Its Draper's Silicone Lubricant but it does need to fully dry overnight


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> It's official EK43 terminology.
> 
> Gary, it just seemed to spit the grinds out so fast they were bound to go flying. I'll try again though.
> 
> As an aside, rather than pushing the on button all the way in I've just been pushing it halfway and 'pulsing' it on for 2-3 secs while it grinds. Is this bad in any way?


DONT do this. Leave the grinder running for the session (


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> Its Draper's Silicone Lubricant but it does need to fully dry overnight


Need me some of this for funnels and possibly the plastic parts of the thwacker


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> DONT do this. Leave the grinder running for the session (
> 
> I mean when single dosing - by the time the switch is all the way in its pretty much done. When seasoning I just turned it on and left it


----------



## tribs

I've been doing the same Jeebsy. As you say by the time the switch has 'clicked', it's done.

Update:

Greased the shaft. I don't think it needed it TBH.

Seasoned. Only had about 2kg of stale beans. Zero'd.

First shot 18g>48g in 13 secs









I need more stale beans and to dig out my variable speed pump control device.


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> I've been doing the same Jeebsy. As you say by the time the switch has 'clicked', it's done.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Greased the shaft. I don't think it needed it TBH.
> 
> Seasoned. Only had about 2kg of stale beans. Zero'd.
> 
> *First shot 18g>48g in 13 secs*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need more stale beans and to dig out my variable speed pump control device.


Im suprised . With a lack of preinfusion you should be almost choking the machine


----------



## Xpenno

tribs said:


> I've been doing the same Jeebsy. As you say by the time the switch has 'clicked', it's done.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Greased the shaft. I don't think it needed it TBH.
> 
> Seasoned. Only had about 2kg of stale beans. Zero'd.
> 
> First shot 18g>48g in 13 secs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need more stale beans and to dig out my variable speed pump control device.


Are you putting the bean in and then switching it on? Most are spinning up, adding beans, turning off. This way the motor isn't put under stress and grind consistency will be maximum.


----------



## Xpenno

tribs said:


> I've been doing the same Jeebsy. As you say by the time the switch has 'clicked', it's done.
> 
> Update:
> 
> Greased the shaft. I don't think it needed it TBH.
> 
> Seasoned. Only had about 2kg of stale beans. Zero'd.
> 
> First shot 18g>48g in 13 secs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need more stale beans and to dig out my variable speed pump control device.


Did you re-zero after greasing the burrs?


----------



## jeebsy

Beans in, push button in slightly, job done.

So best to put beans in while the motor is running?

I ground at 1.3 this morning and the pour was slower than expected, maybe try zeroing again if you've had the burrs out?


----------



## ronsil

Its the same principle I've uded with all my grinders.

Single dose held ready -> start grinder -> drop in the beans -> turn off grinder.

If you are going to grind more than one dose keep the motor running


----------



## garydyke1

Always have the motor running before adding beans , lol.


----------



## jeebsy

Why's that? Purely consistency?


----------



## tribs

I have had the motor running before adding beans, but I had forgot to zero again after seasoning. I had done it after greasing.

Zero does seem to be a micro-notch finer, but I cannot be sure the chirping is burr rubbing or not. I daren't turn further once I hear it.

Tried Sugar Glider which needs a fairly coarse grind.

18g > 42g in 20 secs at zero (1).

Again almond aroma. Flavour subdued. Insanely sweet in milk. Maybe a little too much.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Why's that? Purely consistency?


Consistency and not to put stress on the motor.

1.Beans in

2. start motor

3. pull gate on hopper (or pull out tab on mini hopper)

4. grinds

5. keep motor on and repeat 1, 3 and 4 for subsequent doses


----------



## jeebsy

So say you were pulling four shots and doing milk for each, you'd just leave the motor on for the 6-8 minutes or whatever?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> So say you were pulling four shots and doing milk for each, you'd just leave the motor on for the 6-8 minutes or whatever?


EK is happy to be left on for 45mins - as Gary says above, not good to switch on and off repeatedly. Power drawn on switch on is a hefty 7 amps dropping back to 2 amps running.


----------



## jeebsy

Ok, good to know. A couple of shops I used to go to powered it up for each dose but they probably had more robust power supplies.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Ok, good to know. A couple of shops I used to go to powered it up for each dose but they probably had more robust power supplies.


Think shops are more likely running three phase?? which is less stressful on machines with motors like grinders on start up. Can any electrical boffins out there clarify?


----------



## jeebsy

What exactly does the reset button reset?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> What exactly does the reset button reset?


The motor has a safety cut out which, hopefully, you'll never trigger. If you do, you have to use the reset button to be able to power it up again.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Hi guys there is now an ek43 group for chatter around the grinder .

This is open to ANYONE ! , owners and non owners , and will allows us to ask questions and perfect best practice and all the other dull stuff we have been doing the last few days....

And for those that find annoy of this not the least bit dull then please feel free to come along

If ANYONE who wants to join, please drop me a pm and ill send an invite out

you can then subscribe and get abreast of whats going on .

For those that aren't interested it means you won't see as many posts

Although we will still add to this thread when we have significant things to share , or if people wanna ask questions etc

Cheers Martin


----------



## garydyke1

Few under the hood shots to close this out


----------



## garydyke1

Greased and back together , needed a tweek to re zero


----------



## funinacup

Why so much greasing? It's a brand new item...


----------



## ronsil

Just put my first post up on the new Group


----------



## funinacup

Highly doubt that a cafe would put in a three phase supply for a grinder Patrick. No reason to run a bigger supply when it's only a 7amp draw on a 13amp socket...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thanks Michael - that's reassuring.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

funinacup said:


> Why so much greasing? It's a brand new item...


We're all happily obsessive


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Greased and back together , needed a tweek to re zero


So is it just shaft you grease?


----------



## coffeechap

funinacup said:


> Highly doubt that a cafe would put in a three phase supply for a grinder Patrick. No reason to run a bigger supply when it's only a 7amp draw on a 13amp socket...


Actually the issue that has been reported else where is that the single phase motors are auffering in a cafe environment with the on off start up, the 1.5 hp motor is better powered by three phase and has far less issues.


----------



## funinacup

Fair enough, didn't realise that.


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> Actually the issue that has been reported else where is that the single phase motors are auffering in a cafe environment with the on off start up, the 1.5 hp motor is better powered by three phase and has far less issues.


Yeah I can imagine on/off/on/off 300+ times a day would not bode well for a grinder designed for


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> Hi guys there is now an ek43 group for chatter around the grinder .
> 
> This is open to ANYONE ! , owners and non owners , and will allows us to ask questions and perfect best practice and all the other dull stuff we have been doing the last few days....
> 
> And for those that find annoy of this not the least bit dull then please feel free to come along
> 
> If ANYONE who wants to join, please drop me a pm and ill send an invite out
> 
> you can then subscribe and get abreast of whats going on .
> 
> For those that aren't interested it means you won't see as many posts
> 
> Although we will still add to this thread when we have significant things to share , or if people wanna ask questions etc
> 
> Cheers Martin


Hello

Is the new group hidden ?

Why is it not open like all the other stuff.

I know we can subscribe, but just a question.

Thanks

-JKK


----------



## Mrboots2u

Its not hidden , its just in groups....

its so that those people who aren't interested in the EK ( i know how could that be possible ? )

Aren't having to deal with the 50 odd messages a day on the activity stream that this thread was generating between 4 or 5 people , meaning other posts are getting knocked off and missed...

while we ask each other questions about a machine that doesn't mean or interest everyone ...


----------



## Geordie Boy

It's definitely not hidden, it's in Community > Groups


----------



## JKK

Geordie Boy said:


> It's definitely not hidden, it's in Community > Groups


Oh thanks

Sorry I couldn't work out how to find it

Cheers

-JKK


----------



## jeebsy

Does anyone actually use activity stream? I think as long as we keep it to one thread it's OK


----------



## Xpenno

I use new posts (timeline on Tapatalk) which is similar, why?


----------



## jeebsy

I use timeline on tapatalk too but that only shows the threads - activity stream seems to show every new post, it just seems an awfully clumsy way to keep up with what's happening. If no one uses it, us clogging it isn't really an issue...


----------



## Xpenno

I vote we just annoy everyone, all my posts in the group go into moderation, I have about 5 posts that are all waiting plus no tapatalk. It's no different to everyone having to listen to the L1 lovers harping on


----------



## Mrboots2u

Post where you want , I gave you the option for a group you don't have to use it .

You could use pm also


----------



## jeebsy

It's nice to have our wee cliquely place we can ask stupid questions out of public view, but during the working day i'll most likely be blethering on here


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Blethering - what a great word.


----------



## Scotford

I think 118 pages is pretty good going on a single topic!


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Post where you want , I gave you the option for a group you don't have to use it .
> 
> You could use pm also


It's a real shame that TT can't support groups







It would just make it easier to input. The group will work very well for reference info like troubleshooting tips, how to grease the shaft etc..


----------



## Mrboots2u

Scotford said:


> I think 118 pages is pretty good going on a single topic!


Yep agree. .....

i think I'm responsible for about half of them I apologise


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Blethering - what a great word.


So awesome, I don't think I've ever actually had to write that word down, I might have to use it more often


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Yep agree. .....
> 
> i think I'm responsible for about half of them I apologise


Just trying to get to 10,000 posts! Is there even a badge for that?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Just trying to get to 10,000 posts! Is there even a badge for that?


It's like Logan run

I get " retired "


----------



## coffeechap

jeebsy said:


> Does anyone actually use activity stream? I think as long as we keep it to one thread it's OK


Yes I do and quite a few do if you want to see what's new on the forum in general and in general all that we see is this thread, I know the sage got tiresome after a while, would be a shame if the EK went the same way


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> It's like Logan run
> 
> I get " retired "


Lol! Never!!!


----------



## Thecatlinux

If anyone gets tired of the EK I will take it off thier hands LOL


----------



## Scotford

Thing is, the EK is the utter pinnacle of grinding machines (well, other IMO, than the Robur, which is equally as good). There will always be questions to be asked and interest about it.


----------



## Xpenno

Scotford said:


> Thing is, the EK is the utter pinnacle of grinding machines (well, other IMO, than the Robur, which is equally as good). There will always be questions to be asked and interest about it.


Until CC gets his 120mm beast!


----------



## coffeechap

Scotford said:


> Thing is, the EK is the utter pinnacle of grinding machines (well, other IMO, than the Robur, which is equally as good). There will always be questions to be asked and interest about it.


This thing is I agree the EK is a great grinder, not the be all and end all but a great grinder, however only a few people have that level of equipment which is fantastic for them, but as a person who tries to help as many as I can, my method is to look through latest posts to see who is asking questions and just recently the EK thread has been consuming the latest posts.

I am delighted that everyone finally has theirs and that everyone is really happy, but having more discussion in a group ( which does not come up on latest posts) that all have access to if they choose, should lessen the amount of stuff in general on the forum about the ek43. By all means put up best practice and conclusions so that general browsers can get an insight into the findings on the thread.


----------



## Charliej

If you review the thread though you will find a lot of the posts are just fluff complaining about waiting for theirs to arrive ( you only mentioned it 8771 times Bootsy







). So I would imagine it will now calm down a lot particularly if it is moderated as thoroughly as some threads have been to get rid of the none substantial "when is the bloody thing arriving" sort of posts.


----------



## jeebsy

Scotford said:


> I think 118 pages is pretty good going on a single topic!


CHange your posts per page setting - i'm only at page 30



coffeechap said:


> Yes I do and quite a few do if you want to see what's new on the forum in general and in general all that we see is this thread, I know the sage got tiresome after a while, would be a shame if the EK went the same way


Could you not click the view new posts button to get similar functionality?


----------



## coffeechap

jeebsy said:


> CHange your posts per page setting - i'm only at page 30
> 
> Could you not click the view new posts button to get similar functionality?


That is what I am clicking hence the comments


----------



## Mrboots2u

Charliej said:


> If you review the thread though you will find a lot of the posts are just fluff complaining about waiting for theirs to arrive ( you only mentioned it 8771 times Bootsy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). So I would imagine it will now calm down a lot particularly if it is moderated as thoroughly as some threads have been to get rid of the none substantial "when is the bloody thing arriving" sort of posts.


And that's numberwang ...


----------



## jeebsy

If you click new posts each thread only comes up once, regardless of how many new posts are in it. Coming up as one result doesn't really cover other threads up or hide the fact there's been posts in them (which I agree does happen in activity stream)


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> If you click new posts each thread only comes up once, regardless of how many new posts are in it. Coming up as one result doesn't really cover other threads up or hide the fact there's been posts in them (which I agree does happen in activity stream)


Yeah it's the activity stream that gets nailed, I never use it for that exact reason I always use new posts or timelineon TT which both do a good job.

Hopefully Glenn will appear and help out with the group config to try and make that more user friendly.


----------



## garydyke1

To be honest this is the only thread iv'e been checking, next obsession is some VST refractometer readings and such other tests.

The new posts stream (which I mostly ignore) is awash with a raffle-blitz at the moment anyway so a moot point


----------



## jeebsy

Made after dinner decafs, pour was in the fairly traditional range (18 in, 24 out in about 25 secs) but my sister asked what was different about it and said it tasted like toasted marshmallows. Don't think i've ever got a tasting note like that


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Made after dinner decafs, pour was in the fairly traditional range (18 in, 24 out in about 25 secs) but my sister asked what was different about it and said it tasted like toasted marshmallows. Don't think i've ever got a tasting note like that


I like toasted marshmallows!


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> To be honest this is the only thread iv'e been checking, next obsession is some VST refractometer readings and such other tests.
> 
> The new posts stream (which I mostly ignore) is awash with a raffle-blitz at the moment anyway so a moot point


For the last three hours not last three weeks though


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> I like toasted marshmallows!


So do I, would probably never have picked it out from a cup of coffee though!



coffeechap said:


> For the last three hours not last three weeks though


cf. the Knock thread, Hausgrind thread, let's get to 10,000 posts thread....


----------



## garydyke1

My god, the knock thread , sheesh. Lol.

Something's can't help being flavour of the moment . It'll be something else soon enough .


----------



## Drewster

garydyke1 said:


> My god, the knock thread , sheesh. Lol.
> 
> Something's can't help being flavour of the moment .* It'll be something else soon enough* .


When someone realises the Emperor's new clothes are........

<ducks and runs for cover>







</ducks>


----------



## jeebsy

Drewster said:


> When someone realises the Emperor's new clothes are........


...capable of producing exceptionally tasty coffee drinks?


----------



## jeebsy

Grinding for brewed - first go (top) was 3fe dial at 8 - seems quite fine?

Bottom is as coarse as possible. Again seems fairly fine?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Grinding for brewed - first go (top) was 3fe dial at 8 - seems quite fine?
> 
> Bottom is as coarse as possible. Again seems fairly fine?


Its deceptive, it goes as coarse as you'll ever need


----------



## jeebsy

Might just need to get used to the new normal. With the royal coarse meant half beans chunks coming out.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Might just need to get used to the new normal. With the royal coarse meant half beans chunks coming out.


Yeah Mazzers really consistent at course settings ......


----------



## jeebsy

No one mentioned them being consistent half bean chunks....


----------



## garydyke1

You can make it go coarser in theory . undo the two allen bolts on the adjustment knob and use a screw driver to unwind the big centre screw loads


----------



## jeebsy

Will see how it goes for now, was just a bit surprised at how fine the adjustment was.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Its deceptive, it goes as coarse as you'll ever need


True but the challenge is keeping it in the range so you can switch from pour over grind to espresso grind. With Callum's 1-18 dial, am on 3.0 for medium-dark roasts e.g. Londinium and 1.5 for lighter which are a challenge. At the other end, been setting to 17 for pour over in order to get extraction yield below 20%. Find the range 19%-20% really brings out all the flavour profile in pour over brewing - above 20% and it begins to tail off.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> True but the challenge is keeping it in the range so you can switch from pour over grind to espresso grind. With Callum's 1-18 dial, am on 3.0 for medium-dark roasts e.g. Londinium and 1.5 for lighter which are a challenge. At the other end, been setting to 17 for pour over in order to get extraction yield below 20%. Find the range 19%-20% really brings out all the flavour profile in pour over brewing - above 20% and it begins to tail off.


Doesn't sound like a huge challenge . Espresso as fine as can go ish Chemex as coarse as can go and aeropress slap bang in the middle .

On standard dial :

I'm finding 1.6-2.3 espresso

Between 7-10 v60-Chemex - cupping

4-5 aeropress

Not yet found a need for 10-11


----------



## Mrboots2u

What roast been are you using for espresso at moment ?


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> What roast been are you using for espresso at moment ?


Coffee collective espresso 2 - pretty light / lighter side of medium

Has Bean Licho - lighter side of medium


----------



## aaronb

My favourite coffee shop just got an EK43.

They're still getting used to it, but noticeable difference with the clever dripper. Much cleaner and sweeter, slightly thinner mouthfeel.


----------



## garydyke1

Few pics of process

Grinding directly into basket through funnel, few shakes and a tap -


----------



## garydyke1

This is 20g in a 20g VST


----------



## garydyke1

At setting 2.1


----------



## garydyke1

Normal tamp no nutation


----------



## garydyke1

Pour starts after 14 secs


----------



## garydyke1

It gather pace and blonds fairly quickly


----------



## garydyke1

But I don't stop till target









At this point a naked filter would be carnage


----------



## garydyke1

We end up with 2 x 23g singles


----------



## garydyke1

And it's over extracted , I'm happy with mouthfeel , Will back off to 2.3 and aim for sub 25 seconds next time .


----------



## garydyke1

As an update 2.3 setting resulted in 51g in the same 32 sec and was much nicer. Will back off more to 2.4 next time . Stupid Virgin issue we have no internet access, having to use 2.5g phone connection , hence sporadic messages and pics


----------



## Thecatlinux

garydyke1 said:


> As an update 2.3 setting resulted in 51g in the same 32 sec and was much nicer. Will back off more to 2.4 next time . Stupid Virgin issue we have no internet access, having to use 2.5g phone connection , hence sporadic messages and pics


May be helpful maybe not re your virgin superhub , if you're accessing wireless and having issues 9/10 its to do with the channel number . access the router and change your channel number . May help ya may not


----------



## garydyke1

Thecatlinux said:


> May be helpful maybe not re your virgin superhub , if you're accessing wireless and having issues 9/10 its to do with the channel number . access the router and change your channel number . May help ya may not


Thanks mate. Apparently there's an engineer resolving but won't be fixed for a few hours : (

Further update : tried setting 2.55

50g in 20 seconds lol. Perhaps slightly under extracted (but so much clarity) , so notched it back to 2.45 and have found this coffees happy place !


----------



## aaronb

Thecatlinux said:


> May be helpful maybe not re your virgin superhub , if you're accessing wireless and having issues 9/10 its to do with the channel number . access the router and change your channel number . May help ya may not


think you'll find the issue is the superhub is a cheaply made piece of ****









there is a mobile app called wifi analyser that is really useful if you need to find an empty channel though.


----------



## jeebsy

The WiFi Geiger counter, had to use that many a time


----------



## Charliej

aaronb said:


> think you'll find the issue is the superhub is a cheaply made piece of ****
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> there is a mobile app called wifi analyser that is really useful if you need to find an empty channel though.


The latest version of the superhub is far better than the original one and will actually broadcast on 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz at the same time, not had any issues with the wi fi since getting the new one, and they aren't actually cheap pieces of crap it's made by Netgear the issues come from the Virgin firmware, my Dad uses the Netgear branded version of the old Superhub in Australia and that works extremely well, even when it was having to broadcast from the living room up to my dad's office at the top of the garden and over the far side of the swimming pool, and the bit over the swimming pool is the tough trial for any wireless signal. If you speak to customer services they can either upgrade the firmware on the old superhub or insist on having a new one anyway.


----------



## charris

The company I work for designs and installs integrated electronic systems - I will post pics in another thread. We only install two brands of wifi systems: ubnt (ubiquiti) for cheap systems and Ruckus for the best wireless possible.


----------



## garydyke1

Video of routine with prototype coffee catcher type thing, bit of annoying static to address


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Video of routine with prototype coffee catcher type thing, bit of annoying static to address


Nice! I have a feeling that static is always going to be there with the EK. Might try some of that anti-static spray that Ron mentioned.


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Nice! I have a feeling that static is always going to be there with the EK. Might try some of that anti-static spray that Ron mentioned.


Its the plastic of the elmlea tub thats causing it. that spray sounds like a useful investment!


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Its the plastic of the elmlea tub thats causing it. that spray sounds like a useful investment!


coat in aluminium tape?

There is a shop in Selly Oak that has the spray in stock, might pick some up.


----------



## jeebsy

Pulled a shot at 2.4 on the 3FE dial which using Spence's converter seems to be 1.2 in old money. 50 out in 25 seconds. Quick pour, bit of gushing at the end. Much thinner mouthfeel than previous shots as expected but still flavoursome.

GOing to experiment more in this range but i quite liked the shots with a finer grind ran for longer. Craft Coffee (my favourite place in London with an EK) usually went for 35-40 out in 35-40 secs.


----------



## aaronb

Charliej said:


> The latest version of the superhub is far better than the original one and will actually broadcast on 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz at the same time, not had any issues with the wi fi since getting the new one, and they aren't actually cheap pieces of crap it's made by Netgear the issues come from the Virgin firmware, my Dad uses the Netgear branded version of the old Superhub in Australia and that works extremely well, even when it was having to broadcast from the living room up to my dad's office at the top of the garden and over the far side of the swimming pool, and the bit over the swimming pool is the tough trial for any wireless signal. If you speak to customer services they can either upgrade the firmware on the old superhub or insist on having a new one anyway.


I asked for a superhub 2 as my last superhb crapped out, but was a no go without paying.

Couldn't agree on the superhub 1, cheaply made rubbish. Netgear were a good brand once, but years ago. Anyway drifting off topic.

Looking forward to my local coffeeshop adopting the EK as the main grinder for guest espresso as well as filter! So glad one has finally hit Norwich without me spending £1.8k that i don't have.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Pulled a shot at 2.4 on the 3FE dial which using Spence's converter seems to be 1.2 in old money. 50 out in 25 seconds. Quick pour, bit of gushing at the end. Much thinner mouthfeel than previous shots as expected but still flavoursome.


1.2 is pretty much zero is that conversion correct?


----------



## coffeechap

Pulled a lush slow pour from start to finish 18.2 grams in 34 grams out setting 2.2, EK L1 combo, rave Peru, lacks mouth feel but super sweet shot, no gushing, at all....


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> 1.2 is pretty much zero is that conversion correct?












Think so yeah, have double checked it


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> 1.2 is pretty much zero is that conversion correct?


Sounds wrong, let me check the maths, the stock dial could prove to be problematic as the scale doesn't quite look evenly spaced through the entire 360deg. Give me a sec.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> 1.2 is pretty much zero is that conversion correct?


This it's borkd because the dial starts at 1.0 not zero.... Leave it with me.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Think so yeah, have double checked it


Looking at the knob in relation to the screw , I would say that's in the region of 1.4-1.5 old dial


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Looking at the knob in relation to the screw , I would say that's in the region of 1.4-1.5 old dial


If the 1's are perfectly aligned then I think it should be 1.7 I've updated the converter. I should never leave the Mrs in charge of the maths, even though it's her job and all that


----------



## coffeechap

Xpenno said:


> If the 1's are perfectly aligned then I think it should be 1.7 I've updated the converter. I should never leave the Mrs in charge of the maths, even though it's her job and all that


She really should join up!!!!


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> She really should join up!!!!


Yeah but then I wouldn't be able to get away with comments like that







besides she's too busy taking the piss out of me for being such a coffee geek.

BTW, modded the k10, down to 0.5g retention on single dosing. Not bad
 








Still need to do more side by side as I've only had them both for a couple of days and then only really after work in the evening. Tonight I had great shots from both, still learning the k10 at the mo.


----------



## coffeechap

Xpenno said:


> Yeah but then I wouldn't be able to get away with comments like that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> besides she's too busy taking the piss out of me for being such a coffee geek.
> 
> BTW, modded the k10, down to 0.5g retention on single dosing. Not bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still need to do more side by side as I've only had them both for a couple of days and then only really after work in the evening. Tonight I had great shots from both, still learning the k10 at the mo.


Great to hear you are enjoying that little bargain!


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> Great to hear you are enjoying that little bargain!


I certainly am


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Looking at the knob in relation to the screw , I would say that's in the region of 1.4-1.5 old dial


Ran some Sweet Shop through this morning at that setting, 48 out in 25 secs. Much sweeter than I remember getting previously, a lot better but feeling it slightly at the back of the tongue

1.35 = 18 in, 40 out in about 26 secs. Similar to above really

1.2 = 18 in, 38 out in 30 secs. More balanced, nice sweetness, getting the kochere coming through, favourite out the lot.

That'll do for this morning, should be a good gym session after that lot.

The Londinium Rwandan is nice and think family will like it in milk but i'm looking forward to putting more of the Workshop/Square Mile/fruity shit through the EK over the weekend.


----------



## Mrboots2u

I haven't added much to this thread for a couple of days , partly due to not having much time after Wednesday lunchtime ....

I thought I'd post up my experiences rather than anyone think I'm hiding away .....

Steep learning curve for me , and getting inconsistent and frustrating/ glorious results.

I would add I think that most of this is due to the barista . When I've had something good out of the combo it has been superb , when I haven't it's been rank ....

Part of it is trying to get your head round what a good extraction used to look like in terms of time/ weight and ration etc and what it looks like now .

Part of it is , my prep would seem to be woeful and I've made some massively lnoovmistakes in bean choice , moving from basket to basket and changing doses - All the things you think you would never do or give advice to do ....if I had that picture I occasionally post of the double face palm , then that would be appropriate here .....









Part of it is , I still think the grinder needs more through it on a fine setting

From Wednesday afternoon onwards I've only managed to pull 4 shots in total I think, which in itself is frustrating but then sometimes talking to people and childcare has to be done .........

Hopefully over the weekend I'll get to start again and see what I can produce ....

I do know that in the right hands ( Patrick s not mine ) my machine and grinder made a sumptuous flat white from londinium , probably top three ever out of the lever ....so back to basics (or learning the new basics ) as it were for me ....


----------



## garydyke1

Measured my TDS for the first with an espresso that wasnt dialled in at all.

19.9g ->51g -> 18 seconds(lol)

7.49% TDS

Re measured 10 mins later to check accuracy of process - 7.51% TDS

Really not suprised , much thinner than usual (in the 40-45g out put range and 20-25 seconds)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

How did it taste? Find EK rank shots are rank in a class of their own. Was made a shot through a Tanzania grinder today which was beyond bad - stonkingly awful.


----------



## tribs

Switched to the ims 22g basket from the vst 18g. It doesn't require as fine a grind so should allow slightly longer shots.

I only had time for one and it pissed through 21 > 50 in 10 secs! Looked at the EK and saw I was on 2.0. Could do with a face palm emoticon. The shot wasn't actually that bad and made one of the best flat whites with this bean


----------



## Charliej

A little something that might interest you EK owners, brushed stainless tooth mug from Tesco in the bathroom bits and pieces section for £3

  2014-05-16 14.41.24 by charliejeal, on Flickr

Didn't have anything to measure it with me but also looked mightk close to 58mm diameter so maybe even a candidate for a little hacksaw and file work for your little project Gary.


----------



## Charliej

Also as promised my simpy made dosing funnel/ coffee catcher. Showing the original pot down to how clean the Mythos is after grinding and then the resulting shot.

  2014-05-15 18.13.55 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  2014-05-15 18.14.05 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  2014-05-15 18.14.14 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  2014-05-15 18.14.31 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  2014-05-15 18.14.48 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  2014-05-15 18.15.00 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  2014-05-15 18.16.18 by charliejeal, on Flickr

  SAM_0257 by charliejeal, on Flickr


----------



## urbanbumpkin

There's a lot to be said for the cut down yoghurt pot.


----------



## Charliej

urbanbumpkin said:


> There's a lot to be said for the cut down yoghurt pot.


It's not a yoghurt pot Clive, it was one of a packet of empty clear pots with lids I bought last year specifically to cut down, but I also use them to pre weigh beans to hand grind whilst out at friends houses to make pourover or FP. That one in the shot, has lasted a year now as the plastic is quite sturdy considering how thin it is.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Sorry Charlie for dissing your superior pots where did you get them from.

I've used the sauce pots that you get from Indian takeaway for weighing / storing bean shots. I've used them since I had my Classic.


----------



## Charliej

urbanbumpkin said:


> Sorry Charlie for dissing your superior pots where did you get them from.
> 
> I've used the sauce pots that you get from Indian takeaway for weighing / storing bean shots. I've used them since I had my Classic.


I'll have a look around the kitchen and see if the rest of them still have anything of the packaging, but I bought them from an old fashioned ironmongers we have in Chorley, they were in with all of the disposable cups and stuff, I'll see if they have anymore next time I'm in town, from memory they were 99p for about 10-12 of them, they are a bit bigger than the takeaway sauce pots, you can easily get 30g of beans in one, and the plastic is stronger too.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Cheers Charlie. The Indian takeaway ones taper in too much to be used in the PF


----------



## jeebsy

Square mile workshop ground directly in to pf, accidentally left it at 1.1, 38 out in about 38 secs. Had to go quite fine with this bean from memory last time so probably about right. Nice, balanced sweetness with the berries coming through.

Second shot was pulled at 1.4, 50 out in 30. Bit thinner as expected and there was a dead spot during the pour but still pleasant enough.


----------



## jeebsy

Adjusted burrs after this morning's shots as had family coming round for coffee/ cake for my sister's birthday.

Ran some beans through at 1.1 and they came out well coarse. Got about 200 out in 15 secs. Tried zeroing again but not much better. Had to use the backup Royal. Christ knows I've done.


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Adjusted burrs after this morning's shots as had family coming round for coffee/ cake for my sister's birthday.
> 
> Ran some beans through at 1.1 and they came out well coarse. Got about 200 out in 15 secs. Tried zeroing again but not much better. Had to use the backup Royal. Christ knows I've done.


Is this the mission stuff ?


----------



## jeebsy

Londinium and mission, both came out the same


----------



## jeebsy

Sorted now. I = fanny


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Sorted now. I = fanny


What had you done ?


----------



## jeebsy

The screw was about 180 degrees off zero so think I must have locked the adjuster in place in the wrong place


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> The screw was about 180 degrees off zero so think I must have locked the adjuster in place in the wrong place


Does that mean you had just calibrated it incorrectly then?


----------



## jeebsy

Yeah, just being an idiot


----------



## Xpenno

You know you have to unscrew the locking screws before zeroing right?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Chemex setting on standard dial people ?


----------



## aaronb

Mrboots2u said:


> Chemex setting on standard dial people ?


Had a Clever on 7 the other day in a coffee shop, we both felt it could have been a bit tighter so maybe go in at 6?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok

after a longish conversation with Callum ( thanks for taking the time mate ) and recalling the good shots Patrick made me also ( cheers mr TSK) I rebooted my espresso Brian * and went back to it this morning ..

Pulled two shots of atkinson prototype blend 17.5 g in 18vst

first one into chilled cup 17 seconds ( lol ) shot 35g out. Fruity , blackcurrant not a hint of sourness . Chilled cup gave it a different apparent mouthfeel . If I made a clip of the shot and played it here , you would all go there is no way I'm drinking that , but it works ....it's not mass delusion honest. It's not traditional espresso ( thick gloopy etc ) but i liked it .

second shit same again , no chilled cup, this time into a flat white . Blackcurrant fruit , delicate , sweet .

Ridonkulous ...

looking forward to today now...still more to do as I'm under no illusion that two great shots mean I've nailed this sucker...by feeling a lot different different about things this morning ...

* deliberate typo makes me laugh .

Callum the Opposite of a Derrick is an now called an espresso Brian .......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Hmm. Got some Prototype - thanks Tim - will give it a go later. Good to hear your burrs are beginning to behave themselves Boots. If you're getting lots of fruit notes but balanced acidity - you're doing right by the EK.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Should try some medium plus roasts too - easier to dial in on the EK and if you hit extraction yield above 21-22% you unlock the sweetness which will put a smile on your face.


----------



## Xpenno

Tate Peabury 21g > 50g in 24sec (VST) 30 sec (IMS)

Getting some really nice cranberry, red cherry acidity in the cup. Smooth mouthfeel and really tasty.

Difference between VST/IMS

VST highlighted the acid notes a little more and the flavours were more pronounced. The IMS had a much smoother mouthfeel and a rounder overall taste. Neither better or worse just different









More playing to be done.


----------



## ShortShots

Ran some Rwanda filter roast through the EK at 1.8 just for giggles. 18.5g in, 31g out in 18s. Like boots I found this to be ridiculously sweet with no sourness, surprised the hell out of me. went for 1.2 and 18.5g in 33g out in 28s and the sweetness was there but there was a hint of sourness and something else. pleasant but not as nice.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ShortShots said:


> Ran some Rwanda filter roast through the EK at 1.8 just for giggles. 18.5g in, 31g out in 18s. Like boots I found this to be ridiculously sweet with no sourness, surprised the hell out of me. went for 1.2 and 18.5g in 33g out in 28s and the sweetness was there but there was a hint of sourness and something else. pleasant but not as nice.


Have you got access to a refractometer? Bet the sweet shot had an extraction yield above 22% - when you hit this, the sweetness opens up like nothing else.


----------



## ShortShots

sadly not, I wish i did! It was like eating a dessert, judging by the taste I'd expect it to be more in the 23-24% region. Ive replicated twice since, both times since I've stayed at 18.5g in 31g out, just adjusting grind for time. Anything past 25 seconds and the sweetness is gone. I love the EK, changing all the rules!


----------



## jeebsy

I've pulled very few under 25s, that's this morning's goal sorted


----------



## coffeechap

ShortShots said:


> sadly not, I wish i did! It was like eating a dessert, judging by the taste I'd expect it to be more in the 23-24% region. Ive replicated twice since, both times since I've stayed at 18.5g in 31g out, just adjusting grind for time. Anything past 25 seconds and the sweetness is gone. I love the EK, changing all the rules!


Need to be careful with roasting for the EK though as most don't have them!!!!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ShortShots said:


> sadly not, I wish i did! It was like eating a dessert, judging by the taste I'd expect it to be more in the 23-24% region. Ive replicated twice since, both times since I've stayed at 18.5g in 31g out, just adjusting grind for time. Anything past 25 seconds and the sweetness is gone. I love the EK, changing all the rules!


Mind me asking where your coffee shop is in the Cotswolds - you've got some serious kit there. Would like to visit in August when in the area.


----------



## ShortShots

Not a worry CC, we don't do Nordic roasts







Systemic we are in Cirencester


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ShortShots said:


> Systemic we are in Cirencester


Thanks, will drop by.


----------



## coffeechap

It will be like home from home Patrick, ek43 and l1


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> It will be like home from home Patrick, ek43 and l1


Bliss! - here's there's a half average place in Bath too - roll on August.


----------



## Xpenno

I purchased a Dremel the other day and am starting to get the hang of it now. I decided to knock up a test dosing tool which works well even though it looks a little rough around the edges









It started life a a metal tub that I used for dosing.










I then chopped it up










https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-iC0HEWy8arc/U3s2EXOh-UI/AAAAAAAARVk/qqhlmOgLKu4/w356-h474-no/20140520_114410.jpg

And it sits nicely atop my PF.



















The outer section sits over the outside of the basket, the inside sits level with the basket wall. Ideally I would like more of a funnel effect to direct beans into the centre of the basket. Maybe this will be the case for version 2.

Only used it once but it worked well


----------



## Charliej

Spence maybe one of the larger cocktail shakers would do the same if you removed the bottom from it and cut it half way up so you retained the funnel type shape ?


----------



## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> Spence maybe one of the larger cocktail shakers would do the same if you removed the bottom from it and cut it half way up so you retained the funnel type shape ?


Yea that could work, I have that shaker top that you gave me at the brum crawl which I may attack later. One of my many funnels also is the correct size so I might take the saw to that as well









The Dremel is by far the coolest toy out there!


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Have you got access to a refractometer? Bet the sweet shot had an extraction yield above 22% - when you hit this, the sweetness opens up like nothing else.


Coffee Collective espresso 1. 28 days after roasting!

cold portafilter, zero preinfusion

19.6g - > 59.6g - > 21 seconds

TDS 7.1%

You do the math.

Probably the best coffee beverage I have had this year. 20 - > 43-45g in 23-25 seconds was good-ish but there was a nagging doubt it was optimal. The longer quicker pull was sweet, clear, delicate , open, full of all the tasting notes and more. I should imagine with a more preferable water than Ashbeck/Clearview the sky would be the limit with this grinder.


----------



## Thecatlinux

garydyke1 said:


> Coffee Collective espresso 1. 28 days after roasting!
> 
> cold portafilter, zero preinfusion
> 
> 19.6g - > 59.6g - > 21 seconds
> 
> TDS 7.1%
> 
> You do the math.
> 
> Probably the best coffee beverage I have had this year. 20 - > 43-45g in 23-25 seconds was good-ish but there was a nagging doubt it was optimal. The longer quicker pull was sweet, clear, delicate , open, full of all the tasting notes and more. I should imagine with a more preferable water than Ashbeck/Clearview the sky would be the limit with this grinder.


Any my particular reason for a cold portafilter ? Apologise in advance if its a stupid question


----------



## jeebsy

What do your pours look like for those volume extractions? I know they're a bit of a red herring but mine are ok for first 20-30ml or so then they go mental


----------



## garydyke1

Thecatlinux said:


> Any my particular reason for a cold portafilter ? Apologise in advance if its a stupid question


Three reasons :

1. The machine was barely warm, didnt have time to wait

2. Its easier to shot prep with my current bodged funnel set-up, need to hold funnel against portafilter manually.

3. Fast, long shots are hotter, way hotter.

*3 although this is anecdotal , I believe it to hold some truth. I spoke at length with Gwilym Davies about this very phenomenon at LCF (he experienced it in the Victoria Arduino 388 Black Eagle which has similar group head heating technology to the Sage DB). Perhaps the lower TDS means more hotter water and less cool(er) coffee particles? perhaps the amount of water running through heats up the portafilter effectively , whereas a ristretto wouldnt?

Of the very best shots from the Sage EK I would say the vast majority involve a cold or warm-ish portafilter.


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> What do your pours look like for those volume extractions? I know they're a bit of a red herring but mine are ok for first 20-30ml or so then they go mental


Spouts dude - Im not even looking at the flow, eyes firmly on the scales. I understand entirely the pain with the naked, glorious pours...for about 2/3rd and then boom down to 8,7,6BAR and its making a mess.

Im investigating turkish burrs when the chance arises, I hear they are less unpredictable and a few folk say better espresso in the cup. we shall see (if I can afford it)


----------



## Mrboots2u

Shots are way hotter through the lever as well...don't know why but they are


----------



## Mrboots2u

Oh and extracted into chilled cups makes interesting tastes


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Oh and extracted into chilled cups makes interesting tastes


Think of honey - when its cool its thick and sticky, when its hot its like water. Chilled cups - thicker mouthfeel. #maybepergerwasrightallalong


----------



## Thecatlinux

Me thinks I'm Going to have a play with some chilled cups this week.


----------



## jeebsy

My shots have been roasting too, need ages to cool down, didn't really think why. Might try the chilled cups.


----------



## jeebsy

Could you keep them in the freezer or is there a risk of thermal shock?


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Coffee Collective espresso 1. 28 days after roasting!
> 
> cold portafilter, zero preinfusion
> 
> 19.6g - > 59.6g - > 21 seconds
> 
> TDS 7.1%
> 
> You do the math.


Numberwang? .....


----------



## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> Yea that could work, I have that shaker top that you gave me at the brum crawl which I may attack later. One of my many funnels also is the correct size so I might take the saw to that as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Dremel is by far the coolest toy out there!


Yeah I love my Dremel but found I have to keep it in the car boot so that if I come up with some crazy idea that requires it's use it's a bit more of a ball ache to go and get it, this way I don't end up with various ground down and cut off bits and pieces all over the flat lol.


----------



## Thecatlinux

jeebsy said:


> Could you keep them in the freezer or is there a risk of thermal shock?


I will let you know this week. Will post some photos if the cups explode. LOL


----------



## jeebsy

I'll be trying it tonight with my least favourite cup


----------



## The Systemic Kid

No gushers with the lever - tripod pours with lighter roasts - don't know if this down to pour grind distribution (dosing from tumbler into portafilter via inversion). Extractions much quicker with lighter roasts - even without tripod pours. The higher extraction temp seems to have tailed off a bit or maybe my mouth has got used to it!


----------



## Mrboots2u

I'm still getting 15-20 second extractions for things like prototype roast


----------



## vikingboy

I'm running 17g - 35-40g on a L1 which seems to be close to max capability without lever wrestling and getting great looking pours and drinks.

The flow does speed up post 28g isn so you need to be quick with the pull away


----------



## Mrboots2u

vikingboy said:


> I'm running 17g - 35-40g on a L1 which seems to be close to max capability without lever wrestling and getting great looking pours and drinks.
> 
> The flow does speed up post 28g isn so you need to be quick with the pull away


in what time scale and what type of roast of beans may I ask ?


----------



## jeebsy

Got a few wee samples from a kind local roaster, pulled this - 2 on the 3fe dial gave 18 in, 50 out in 24 seconds. Tastes like a sweet English breakfast tea, mental


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> I'll be trying it tonight with my least favourite cup


glass is more likely to be an issue


----------



## coffeechap

jeebsy said:


> I'll be trying it tonight with my least favourite cup


That will be these then


----------



## vikingboy

Mrboots2u said:


> in what time scale and what type of roast of beans may I ask ?


8 seconds per infusion. 35 seconds from first drop through portafilter. Londinium beans not sure which without checking.

EDIT: Just checked, the beans are Bolivia organics....grinding on 1 + 3 little dashes (1.3?). It looks finer than I drank from previous grinders before. It tastes so good I haven't even been bothered getting the refractometer out....although now I'm curious LOL


----------



## jeebsy

Some of the sample roast G3 Yirga - 2 on the dial, 18 in, 50 out in 20 secs. Lovely fruity, blueberry from it. Mad pours FTW


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


>


I thought mine were bad. lol


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Numberwang? .....


By my crude maths and not taking into account the TDS of the water which is (100mg/L) it would be a circa 21.5% extraction.

I recon I can push higher into the 22-23% range : )


----------



## garydyke1

Working this out, old fashioned calculator .

To get me a 24% extraction without destroying the mouthfeel too much (its already on the edge @7.1%) and using a sensible dose, would be looking at 20g - > 70g, giving a TDS of 6.8-6.9%

Will try tomorrow!


----------



## AndyS

garydyke1 said:


> By my crude maths and not taking into account the TDS of the water which is (100mg/L) it would be a circa 21.5% extraction


You don't have to worry about the water TDS. 100mg/L = 0.01%. It's too small to matter in calculating extraction yield. Your 21.5% might become 21.53%.


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Working this out, old fashioned calculator .
> 
> To get me a 24% extraction without destroying the mouthfeel too much (its already on the edge @7.1%) and using a sensible dose, would be looking at 20g - > 70g, giving a TDS of 6.8-6.9%
> 
> Will try tomorrow!


I'm drinking this now, 20 to 70 in 29 secs. Using the G2 Yirgacheffe and it's really sweet, still tasting like a floral tea. Only bad thing is it doesn't fit in an espresso cup


----------



## jeebsy

Got a black 3FE dial sitting spare, 14 quid posted if any of you guys want it


----------



## garydyke1

19.8g - > 67.35g - > 32 seconds. Could have actually done with a grind change to back it off a bit, dramatic change of weather.

Impossibly sweet. Astounded how clear the flavours actually are. Waiting for it to cool some more so I can measure the TDS and work out extaction %


----------



## ronsil

This morning I thought to try out the 'halfway house' with some Steampunk Velos I had left over.

Following on from Gary's experience on another thread I weighed in at 20 grams. Set the Irish Dial (gotta find a better name for this so useful dial) to 1.6. I do have very soft water here which also goes through a Bestmax filter cartridge. So let it run for 50 seconds & 50 grams out. With the Versalab I'd been well into bitter terrority at this extraction but today it was beautiful.

I am sure we all know it but I do continue to marvel at this Grinder. Its giving me so much time for other things.

At the last book club meeting I served all coffee shots (17) with hot/cold milk on the side. Went down a treat & no steaming.


----------



## garydyke1

garydyke1 said:


> 19.8g - > 67.35g - > 32 seconds. Could have actually done with a grind change to back it off a bit, dramatic change of weather.
> 
> Impossibly sweet. Astounded how clear the flavours actually are. Waiting for it to cool some more so I can measure the TDS and work out extaction %


I got 6.83% TDS.

So in my 67.35g beverage Id 'snatched' 4.6g of solids from the 19.8g dose

23.2% of my 19.8g dose got extracted

This tastes amazing.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> I got 6.83% TDS.
> 
> So in my 67.35g beverage Id 'snatched' 4.6g of solids from the 19.8g dose
> 
> 23.2% of my 19.8g dose got extracted
> 
> This tastes amazing.


If you keep talking like this then I might have to down tools at work and head to yours







In fact, what you up to this evening? I could "deliver" some tate peabury....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Dosing from tumbler straight into portafilter basket.

20grms in - 40 out in 35 secs plus 8 sec pre-infusion. Grind setting just off zero. Used Atkinson's Prototype blend which I enjoyed in a flat white in the Halls on Monday. Touch of green fruit but sweet and enjoyable. On the EK the green fruit comes through in spades - no sourness. Pulled two shots for flat whites - first was a single spout pour - this one a tripod - made no difference to the taste.


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> If you keep talking like this then I might have to down tools at work and head to yours
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In fact, what you up to this evening? I could "deliver" some tate peabury....


Ill be home and have eaten by 8.30-9. Too late for me to drink coffee but you can.

Alternatively im working from home up to approx 5.30pm


----------



## coffeechap

Great no one in Gary's house let's go get an ek43!


----------



## froggystyle

Sweet not to far from me, whats the full address?


----------



## garydyke1

I dont live alone ; ) Theres a poorly hen you can take with you if you like


----------



## froggystyle

Tempting, but i have enough chicken in the freezer.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Ill be home and have eaten by 8.30-9. Too late for me to drink coffee but you can.
> 
> Alternatively im working from home up to approx 5.30pm


Hmm might leave it for today, stupid work getting in the way! Give me a bell when you're around and we'll sort something out.


----------



## tribs

What an extraordinary grinder!

The grind quality / consistency is amazing. I am not yet totally happy with my method of getting the grinds in the basket. The grinds exit the chute so fast that you really need a long-ish container and static is a bit of a problem too. At the moment I am back to using a cocktail shaker and pouring into the basket, but the problem with this is that the grinds have a consistency similar to moon sand (if you have young kids you'll know what I'm talking about) It all slides out in one piece so I am having to spoon it out, carefully.

I smuggled the EK home and swapped it with the Super Jolly a week ago and no-one in the house has noticed! It means that it is now paired with the Quickmill with 22g IMS basket. Pours are behaving with this pairing and the pucks look perfect.

The most important thing is I've been getting consistently brilliant shots with all sorts of different beans with different roast levels. I can run the shot longer with only detriment to the density of the shot. Acidity is balanced even with light filter roasts (usually a problem with the HX Quickmill) and sweetness is much enhanced. In milk, the sweetness of the shots really pulls through. Feels like sugar has been added. Seriously sweet.

It has improved my v60's too. I previously found that the increased clarity with this brew method was at the expense of sweetness, but the EK grind enhances this so you still get the clarity but with a sweeter cup.

I think it's time I sold some of my other equipment.


----------



## garydyke1

I would say it an amazing grinder if you can get extractions into the 20-21-22% range. Amounts to running more water through IMO

My chemex efforts today were 17.5% and 18.1% (60g then 55g per litre) , they had clarity (so a success) but not as much sweetness as I would hope for.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Interesting Gary - struggle to get my Chemex brews under 20% extraction yield. Running some Tanzanian at the moment half a click off coarsest setting - 62grms per litre ratio - getting extraction yield of 19.5% which, to me, tastes better than brews with 0.5-1.0% higher yield.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Interesting Gary - struggle to get my Chemex brews under 20% extraction yield. Running some Tanzanian at the moment half a click off coarsest setting - 62grms per litre ratio - getting extraction yield of 19.5% which, to me, tastes better than brews with 0.5-1.0% higher yield.


I was doing setting 8 (old dial).

20.1g dose

333 water added

294 bev weight

TDS came out at 1.2 or there abouts

17.5%

Took a little over 4 mins. The result was clean and tasty but not as sweet as hoped


----------



## tribs

Here's an illustration of the moon sand thing


----------



## jeebsy

Not the best job but it'll do for now


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Reminds me of Starsky and Hutch - can't think why


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> Here's an illustration of the moon sand thing
> View attachment 7165


lol.

You need to learn the EK-shake


----------



## Thecatlinux

tribs said:


> What an extraordinary grinder!
> 
> The grind quality / consistency is amazing. I am not yet totally happy with my method of getting the grinds in the basket. The grinds exit the chute so fast that you really need a long-ish container and static is a bit of a problem too. At the moment I am back to using a cocktail shaker and pouring into the basket, but the problem with this is that the grinds have a consistency similar to moon sand (if you have young kids you'll know what I'm talking about) It all slides out in one piece so I am having to spoon it out, carefully.
> 
> I smuggled the EK home and swapped it with the Super Jolly a week ago and no-one in the house has noticed! It means that it is now paired with the Quickmill with 22g IMS basket. Pours are behaving with this pairing and the pucks look perfect.
> 
> The most important thing is I've been getting consistently brilliant shots with all sorts of different beans with different roast levels. I can run the shot longer with only detriment to the density of the shot. Acidity is balanced even with light filter roasts (usually a problem with the HX Quickmill) and sweetness is much enhanced. In milk, the sweetness of the shots really pulls through. Feels like sugar has been added. Seriously sweet.
> 
> It has improved my v60's too. I previously found that the increased clarity with this brew method was at the expense of sweetness, but the EK grind enhances this so you still get the clarity but with a sweeter cup.
> 
> I think it's time I sold some of my other equipment.


This really makes me feel I am missing out, each time i see pictures of the grind they look so different to anything else. Would you say its an easy grinder to get along with, there must be some pitfalls, ??? obviously funnelling your grind into the handle/basket seems to be an issue judging by the other posts.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Its espresso but not as you know it. Sweeter lees body and mouth feel...


----------



## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Its espresso but not as you know it. Sweeter lees body and mouth feel...


Those comments don't help someone with upgradeitis ....


----------



## Xpenno

Thecatlinux said:


> This really makes me feel I am missing out, each time i see pictures of the grind they look so different to anything else. Would you say its an easy grinder to get along with, there must be some pitfalls, ??? obviously funnelling your grind into the handle/basket seems to be an issue judging by the other posts.


It's very different and I don't think it's for everyone.

IMO you can get closer to the flavours that you might get from cupping the coffee but in a variety of different drinks. I've still not had chance to spend a considerable amount of time with mine (roll on the bank holiday weekend), I've tasted both the good side and bad. The main upside is that the coffee you can make is like nothing else I've tasted the main downside is that as I drink 95% espresso, that it doesn't really do espresso as I used to know it. It's only a downside if you can't live without the thick espresso/ristretto shot and once you nail the EKlungo then that might well no longer be a problem.

It sounds like the filter boys are getting some great results as well


----------



## Thecatlinux

Thick short espresso is where I am at the moment, so may not need an EK straight away (phew!) found myself doing a lot of milks at the moment as I am trying to get to grips with steaming/stretching , I am trying to stick with one bean/blend at the moment and see how i can master my technique and The SJ .....not easy to do when there is so many lovely beans out there, Treat my taste buds to something new each weekend .

don't even know the price of an EK (hopefully expensive so out of grasp)


----------



## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> don't even know the price of an EK (hopefully expensive so out of grasp)


£1920 and rising!


----------



## vikingboy

i think its an incredibly easy grinder to get along with - seems to be no matter how far out of whack your grind setting is, or how much volume you run it still tastes great 99 times out of 100.

I even tried to make bad coffee and failed LOL


----------



## Charliej

Thecatlinux said:


> Thick short espresso is where I am at the moment, so may not need an EK straight away (phew!) found myself doing a lot of milks at the moment as I am trying to get to grips with steaming/stretching , I am trying to stick with one bean/blend at the moment and see how i can master my technique and The SJ .....not easy to do when there is so many lovely beans out there, Treat my taste buds to something new each weekend .
> 
> don't even know the price of an EK (hopefully expensive so out of grasp)


Maybe a grinder upgrade is for you but not going the whole way up to an EK, something like a nice Mythos, or a K10, maybe even a Kony or Robur lol


----------



## Thecatlinux

Charliej said:


> Maybe a grinder upgrade is for you but not going the whole way up to an EK, something like a nice Mythos, or a K10, maybe even a Kony or Robur lol


Something in the pipeline , but a little way off , certain stars and planets need to align first, having loads of fun with the SJ at the moment.


----------



## jeebsy

coffeechap said:


> £1920 and rising!


http://wholesale.workshopcoffee.com/collections/machinery/products/mahlkonig-ek43t

I was pulling shorter shots at first and they were nice but not amazing. Since going to 40-50 out in 25 seconds they've been everything i've been wanting from espresso, clear flavours, so sweet, different beans having distinct qualities. The batch of test roasts I got from Papercup summed it up, one was so floral, like tea and the other was pure blueberries, no problem whatsoever switching between the two and easily repeatable settings. Not gloopy mouthfeel but not thin either. Even the Mission Nicaragua which was previously a firm meh came through really well this morning.

Not sure if i'd say it was worth the money but it's getting there.

PS I have had a few drinks so excuse the rambling


----------



## garydyke1

Is it worth the money? Could you get an espresso-only grinder & Filter/Brewed-only grinder of equal grind (and build) quality, new, for sub £1800?

Don't need to cup coffee anymore to find out what its all about - straight to 22-24% espressos - clarity , aroma and sweetness all day long!

If mouthfeel is your thing try the chilled cups (ie from the fridge/freezer) it really works. To get the sweetness & full spectrum of flavour and aroma the (in my opinion) the TDS will be in the 6.7-7.5% range...hardly your typical ristretto!

Its a bonus to be getting 2 x double espressos (volume wise) for the price of one......think of the money saving long term!


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Is it worth the money? Could you get an espresso-only grinder & Filter/Brewed-only grinder of equal grind (and build) quality, new, for sub £1800?
> 
> Don't need to cup coffee anymore to find out what its all about - straight to 22-24% espressos - clarity , aroma and sweetness all day long!
> 
> If mouthfeel is your thing try the chilled cups (ie from the fridge/freezer) it really works. To get the sweetness & full spectrum of flavour and aroma the (in my opinion) the TDS will be in the 6.7-7.5% range...hardly your typical ristretto!
> 
> Its a bonus to be getting 2 x double espressos (volume wise) for the price of one......think of the money saving long term!


Just out of interest are you using a double spout into two cups?


----------



## tribs

jeebsy said:


> Even the Mission Nicaragua which was previously a firm meh came through really well this morning.


Indeed. I had forgotten to mention it does make seemingly dull coffee sing.

Couple of my favourite shots have come from the Pact £1 stuff and some Booth's mexican supermarket offering.









I don't feel there is as much caffeine extracted, which means I can enjoy more coffee without screwing with my sleep


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Just out of interest are you using a double spout into two cups?


Yeah , have ditched the naked for now


----------



## garydyke1

Was bored


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Was bored


Good work mate! Get it to the printers


----------



## garydyke1

MS Paint FTW........


----------



## jeebsy

Currently working through the last of the stuff in my freezer then I'm going to do a big has bean order for loads of funky / sweet shit. Can't wait.


----------



## garydyke1

Ethiopia s are a comin! : )


----------



## Thecatlinux

Dont know if this any good to you if you haven't already seen it.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:102646/#files


----------



## gman147

garydyke1 said:


> Was bored


That's screaming for a 3D printer


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Ethiopia s are a comin! : )


imm shipping today!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Spent most of yesterday in the 'man shed' coming up with some direct dosing funnels for the EK. Mrs Systemic is now minus a couple of mini pudding pots and a scone cutter.

First attempt: Used an aluminium pudding mould which has a near perfect 58mm diameter at base. Sits on the portafilter pretty well.

View attachment 7183
View attachment 7184


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Second attempt cut down a non-stick metal mini pudding mould. Has the same diameter - 58mm - so sits on the portafilter nicely.

View attachment 7185
View attachment 7186


----------



## The Systemic Kid

As the cut down pudding moulds sit on top rather than within the portafilter basket, wanted to produce something that fitted snugly inside the basket.

View attachment 7187
View attachment 7188


This funnel sits comfortably inside the basket and is a snug fit thanks to the chamfered overlapping edges. No danger of it falling off the portafilter basket.

Will be playing around with all three dosing funnels over the next few days to see how they perform.

Am guessing that static will be an issue as is the case with the stainless steel jam funnel I've also been testing.


----------



## garydyke1

Love to see all these dosing solutions popping up : )


----------



## garydyke1

23.4% , 7.0% TDS, extraction of Limoncillo Washed is redonkulously lush. Sticky caramelly-apples, thinking tarte tatin !

Stone cold these higher extractions are almost better tasting than warm conventional espresso


----------



## Xpenno

I thought I was being clever, don't bother, it doesn't work...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Er, what doesn't work??


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Er, what doesn't work??


The metal cone in place of the bagging chute...


----------



## jeebsy

Metal lens hood on top of the PF actually works OK if you put up with a bit of dust


----------



## garydyke1

Tate Kii Peaberry (MCD's WBC 2014 coffee)

19.5g -> 66.6g -> 32 seconds @92c

Will measure later but TDS in the low 6's. (likely a 20-21% ext)

Aroma of cherry, amaretto, gin-type-botanics, blackcurrant - confusing array of smell

single cream mouthfeel

Apricot, juicy peach and mega sweet! slight hint of butterscotch and/or milk choc on the exhale towards the end of the finish

Tried a 20->53g yesterday @ 93c but was too intense and unbalanced.


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> I thought I was being clever, don't bother, it doesn't work...


What happened? Side-spray?


----------



## ronsil

I would think it would be coffee fines everywhere.

Have you used any anti-static spray yet - makes it easy to just blow off or small vacuum the dust


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> What happened? Side-spray?


Comes out dead centre but the static causes ground coffee to float upwards and it ends up everywhere. I was hoping the metal would reduce the static but unfortunately not the case


----------



## Xpenno

ronsil said:


> I would think it would be coffee fines everywhere.
> 
> Have you used any anti-static spray yet - makes it easy to just blow off or small vacuum the dust


Not yet Ron. There's a guy up he road that seems to sell it so might see if I can grab some.


----------



## Charliej

Could someone stick a photo of this anti static spray up please, as I have seen various claiming to be anti static locally.


----------



## ronsil

I had a photo of the tin on this thread a week ago but I've been tidying up my attachments & I think I've deleted it.

It is however:

Drapers Silicone Lubricant available usual places - Amazon - Ebay etc. Take you 10+ years to use the whole tin on coffee related stuff alone.


----------



## Xpenno

New prototype.... Better results, you can't see it but there is a schnozola type funnel fitted inside the thwacky tube right at the top where the grinds exit the grinder. I then fitted another funnel at the opening of the chute. the idea was to try and slow the grinds down as much as possible, works better than previous attempts. You ideally still need something to catch the last of the floaty bits that cause a mess. Much cleaner dosing straight to the basket.


----------



## garydyke1

Dispelling the myth that EK shots are not great in milk. Just made a 6oz flat-white from an EK single shot, yes single!

Coffee Collective espresso 1

20g -> 63g -> 24 sec @94c

31.5g into 6oz not neutral, topped with steamed milk 5mm microfoam.

Amazing, malty, blackberry shake. One of the better milk drinks this year. A shame CC didnt offer this in milk in Copenhagen


----------



## ronsil

garydyke1 said:


> Dispelling the myth that EK shots are not great in milk.


Now that's something I personally have never said.

Most mornings for breakfast I have at least one, out of my three, coffee with milk & enjoyed every cup since the advent of the EK


----------



## Mrboots2u

Firstly I'd like to say I am a noob , a big clown shoe wearing coffee noob. There I said it .

Part of me assumed that most of my issues were due to the barista not the equipment but for once , it was the equipment ....

So Lever re greased last night , extraction problems for the most part solved . Lots of experimentation to go , and a tear down of lever to come Tuesday with the correct grease etc BUT

This morning 20g vst 20 g dose of atkinsons prototype. 46 g out ( one small Fellini pull for this )

Two cups - split pour .

Espresso - light , fruity ( blackcurrant and apple ) not a hint of acidity . Less mouthfeel but easier to drink . Down in two sips NOM NOM

Flat white - topped off with 3-4 oz steamed milk ( 5mm foam ish ) . Full fat  milk brought out a malty tinge but with back taste of light red fruit again.

Time will tell if I prefer this type of espresso . But I think my morning ritual for the next few days will be the split pours .

So the hype train has one extra passenger again ( choo choo ) .


----------



## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Firstly I'd like to say I am a noob , a big clown shoe wearing coffee noob. There I said it .
> 
> Part of me assumed that most of my issues were due to the barista not the equipment but for once , it was the equipment ....
> 
> So Lever re greased last night , extraction problems for the most part solved . Lots of experimentation to go , and a tear down of lever to come Tuesday with the correct grease etc BUT
> 
> This morning 20g vst 20 g dose of atkinsons prototype. 46 g out ( one small Fellini pull for this )
> 
> Two cups - split pour .
> 
> Espresso - light , fruity ( blackcurrant and apple ) not a hint of acidity . Less mouthfeel but easier to drink . Down in two sips NOM NOM
> 
> Flat white - topped off with 3-4 oz steamed milk ( 5mm foam ish ) . Full fat milk brought out a malty tinge but with back taste of light red fruit again.
> 
> Time will tell if I prefer this type of espresso . But I think my morning ritual for the next few days will be the split pours .
> 
> So the hype train has one extra passenger again ( choo choo ) .


A split pour on a Sunday morning, what a good idea ! Choo choo.


----------



## garydyke1

Nic Finca Limoncillo washed. Morning mission, find a bit more caramel sweetness. Was pushing 70g output (3.5) and getting maybe 80% of what I was after with 22% extractions.

Temperature 96c

19.9g ->62g ->25 seconds

Increase in temp has achieved getting the sweetness in a lower volume (3.1) and no sign of bitterness at all.

Smooth, sweet milk choc and caramel , a shoulder of toffee apple acidity.

Will measure TDS later! Hopefully knocking on the door of 23-24% extraction : )


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> New prototype.... Better results, you can't see it but there is a schnozola type funnel fitted inside the thwacky tube right at the top where the grinds exit the grinder. I then fitted another funnel at the opening of the chute. the idea was to try and slow the grinds down as much as possible, works better than previous attempts. You ideally still need something to catch the last of the floaty bits that cause a mess. Much cleaner dosing straight to the basket.


Is that a hairdryer attachment?


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Is that a hairdryer attachment?


Nah, I made it out of a plastic folder and covered the inside with aluminium tape.


----------



## Thecatlinux

If any of you ek owners want a dosing funnel made , I am quite happy to develop and fabricate one for you if you do not have the time.

As I do not have one of the said grinders , you would have to ship your grinder to me (at cost to you), and obviously supply me with appropriate stock of beans for testing purposes , I would be quite swift in the design and fabrication to meet your requirements and estimate I would only need to have your grinder for approximately Three months testing .

please let me know if you are interested , and as I am expecting a barrage of response from this post, and I will have to work on a first come first served basis.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Me, me, me! What's your address? Got mine already packed and ready to go. Really nice gesture


----------



## Thecatlinux

The Systemic Kid said:


> Me, me, me! What's your address? Got mine already packed and ready to go. Really nice gesture


As you were the first to respond , I will be glad too. Also to ensure that I offer you the best possible service can you also dispatch your machine that you intend to pair with your grinder as I want to be sure any evaluation is as accurate as possible even though I may have to exceed the three month testing period .


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thecatlinux said:


> As you were the first to respond , I will be glad too. Also to ensure that I offer you the best possible service can you also dispatch your machine that you intend to pair with your grinder as I want to be sure any evaluation is as accurate as possible even though I may have to exceed the three month testing period .


Too kind.......


----------



## garydyke1

Experimenting this morning - there is more than one way to achieve the wonderful clean, transparent clarity of sweetness & flavour with the EK and an espresso machine. Some people get upset by lungos. Laura for one in her milk drinks. I noted Pergers WBC recipes were in the 9% TDS range and 3FEs were 7.5%-8%. All my delicious shots were in the 6-7% range. Pretty clear there was an opportunity to shorten them but maintain the higher extractions & everyone having success at lower volume was using preinfusion of some sort.

Option 1

19.9 ->68.8g -> 24 sec (normal vibe ramp 95c)

TDS 6.8/22.5% extraction

Thin, glugable, 'ghost coffee' ie leaves the palate clean and refreshed. what you'd expect in brewed but a slight nod to the intensity of conventional espresso. zero bitterness.

Option 2

20.0 ->52g -> 32 sec (inc +10 secs preinfusion 94c)

8.8% TDS / 22.9% extraction

More viscous , chewy, more intense, sweeter , more of a lasting 'finish' - importantly still the clarity of flavour. zero bitterness.

I would say 8/10 people presented with option 2 would agree quite conventional as far as espresso goes, certainly in terms of mouthfeel.....but way way clearer and sweeter than anything I ever got from the Royal even after years of tweeking and experimenting.

final thought - the grind setting difference was only 3 tiny notches between the two, option 1 - 2.1 & option 2 - 1.8 (old dial)


----------



## ronsil

Well that's the thing isn't it. I think everyone is surprised how little dial movement is required when changing beans.

So much so I'm going to completely rethink my method of dialing in when my new machine gets here.

Lotta thought going on at the moment.


----------



## garydyke1

ronsil said:


> Well that's the thing isn't it. I think everyone is surprised how little dial movement is required when changing beans.
> 
> So much so I'm going to completely rethink my method of dialing in when my new machine gets here.
> 
> Lotta thought going on at the moment.


The mystery new machine. Cant wait to see what you've gone for


----------



## Mrboots2u

Chemex - Hasbean Yirgacheffe Kebel Aricha

Water -Ashbeck

Dose 31g at 15 setting Callum dial










TDS 1.28

Nom rating off the scale ...

Mrboots - starts clean earl grey ,as. It cools goes to a sweet sweet lemon the on the back end

The Kid - starts black tea as it cools floral lemon notes balanced and clean , no acidity .....


----------



## garydyke1

So 9.6 old dial. Hmm will give this recipe a go when I've got through some of the Don Mayo from the week before : )


----------



## Mrboots2u

ETHIOPIA ARICHA YIRGACHEFFEE WASHED ( this is a very very very god coffee hasbean )

Dial set to 1.1 ( Callum dial ) .

17g in an18g vst - 6 second pre infusion followed by 21 second extraction resulting in 41g out .

Split pour

Espresso crazy sweet lemon , like a lemonade / blackcurrant lolly...

In milk pleasant but lost , don't got there . Not that it's bad but your just wasting it in milk as opposed to espresso or Chemex...

Siphon perhaps next for this ...

Incidentally pulled a 20 g> 45 dose of this with Patrick here , still good but lost all the delicate sweeter notes .....


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Incidentally pulled a 20 g> 45 dose of this with Patrick here , still good but lost all the delicate sweeter notes .....


Ive been playing with 'shortish' shots today and preinfusion. Setting 1.8 (old dial)

With 20g in a 20 VST the minimum is 46-48g out to start getting into the sweet zone, ideally 52-54g.

The 20 > 40 pulls not developed enough, tried going finer but dwell times were excessive and killed any subtle notes, it became more 'generic coffee'.


----------



## jeebsy

What's dwell time? Before drops appear?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> What's dwell time? Before drops appear?


Yes dude. Leads to over extraction IMO , not in traditional flat/bittery/bovril kind of way either


----------



## Mrboots2u

With the more limited water in the l1 group been finding 17 or 18 into 40 -45,the sweet spot today ... Haven't experimented with shorter shots yet


----------



## jeebsy

How's everyone getting on with milky drinks? Don't think i've had one from EK yet but verdict from the family seems to vary from odd, to not as nice as before and nicer than ever. Not sure if i should be pulling shorter if there's milk to go in after


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Does really well. Really enjoying some Atkinson's Prototype (thanks Boots). Prefer it as a flat white - lovely sweet green apple/toffee. Using 160ml cups, pulling 1:2.0 from 19grms in.


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> How's everyone getting on with milky drinks? Don't think i've had one from EK yet but verdict from the family seems to vary from odd, to not as nice as before and nicer than ever. Not sure if i should be pulling shorter if there's milk to go in after


I've been splitting mine into 4-5oz cups (,when pulling 40g plus )


----------



## garydyke1

5-6oz cups are great recipients for split pours in the 23-35g range, some of the best milk drinks to be fair


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> 5-6oz cups are great recipients for split pours in the 23-35g range, some of the best milk drinks to be fair


Everything I'm using at the moment taste great as espresso but is on the fruit lighter side . I haven't really had anything in stock of the medium roast cappucino latte chocolate notes that I enjoy . Be interested to see how the ek deals with these milk drink wise . Got a batch of extract zooming it's way to me , so will be interested to see how the extract original comes come for morning cappucinos...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Think the EK excels with milk based drinks made with beans that have some acidity. This cuts through the milk's natural sweetness giving a great fruit kick without any sourness.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Thin, glugable, 'ghost coffee' ie leaves the palate clean and refreshed.


Ghost coffee







....excellent mate


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Experimenting this morning - there is more than one way to achieve the wonderful clean, transparent clarity of sweetness & flavour with the EK and an espresso machine. Some people get upset by lungos. Laura for one in her milk drinks. I noted Pergers WBC recipes were in the 9% TDS range and 3FEs were 7.5%-8%. All my delicious shots were in the 6-7% range. Pretty clear there was an opportunity to shorten them but maintain the higher extractions & everyone having success at lower volume was using preinfusion of some sort.
> 
> Option 1
> 
> 19.9 ->68.8g -> 24 sec (normal vibe ramp 95c)
> 
> TDS 6.8/22.5% extraction
> 
> Thin, glugable, 'ghost coffee' ie leaves the palate clean and refreshed. what you'd expect in brewed but a slight nod to the intensity of conventional espresso. zero bitterness.
> 
> Option 2
> 
> 20.0 ->52g -> 32 sec (inc +10 secs preinfusion 94c)
> 
> 8.8% TDS / 22.9% extraction
> 
> More viscous , chewy, more intense, sweeter , more of a lasting 'finish' - importantly still the clarity of flavour. zero bitterness.
> 
> I would say 8/10 people presented with option 2 would agree quite conventional as far as espresso goes, certainly in terms of mouthfeel.....but way way clearer and sweeter than anything I ever got from the Royal even after years of tweeking and experimenting.
> 
> final thought - the grind setting difference was only 3 tiny notches between the two, option 1 - 2.1 & option 2 - 1.8 (old dial)


Forgot to ask . What was the coffee for the above?


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Forgot to ask . What was the coffee for the above?


Limoncillo washed , all gone...moved onto the peaches n honey


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 7313


Pre/during/post dinner....slightly concerned about getting to sleep tonight

Orange cup - Sweetshop - 20 in, 60 out, 25 secs. OK, pleasant enough without being spectacular

Grey cup - Mission Sidamo - 20 in, 50 out, 28 secs. Nice, well balanced, great level of sweetness

Green cup - Square Mile Kocherre - 20 in, 50 out 25 secs. Best shot of this i've made, got the berries coming through at the end but results from this at home have been underwhelming generally.

Think both the Square Mile beans are past their best (been in the freezer for a couple of months) but running down supplies at present.


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 7313
> 
> 
> Pre/during/post dinner....slightly concerned about getting to sleep tonight
> 
> Orange cup - Sweetshop - 20 in, 60 out, 25 secs. OK, pleasant enough without being spectacular
> 
> Grey cup - Mission Sidamo - 20 in, 50 out, 28 secs. Nice, well balanced, great level of sweetness
> 
> Green cup - Square Mile Kocherre - 20 in, 50 out 25 secs. Best shot of this i've made, got the berries coming through at the end but results from this at home have been underwhelming generally.
> 
> Think both the Square Mile beans are past their best (been in the freezer for a couple of months) but running down supplies at present.


Can't comment on the others but I had a bag of Sweetshop (12 days old) over the bank holiday weekend. I couldn't get anything from them on the EK, they were just bland, nothing good, nothing bad, no sweetness just meh. They were knockout on the K10 which was confusing. Have a bag of Red Brick to try next and I'm looking forward to them


----------



## jeebsy

Had some amazing Sweetshop pulled to a recipe of about 18 in, 35 out in 35 secs on regular grinders, couldn't get much out it on the Royal either. Thought the EK would get the greatness out it but they're old beans and they've been frozen so i'll put it down to that rather than sullying the great beast's reputation. Still for a few hundred grams left so will give them a good workout


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Had some amazing Sweetshop pulled to a recipe of about 18 in, 35 out in 35 secs on regular grinders, couldn't get much out it on the Royal either. Thought the EK would get the greatness out it but they're old beans and they've been frozen so i'll put it down to that rather than sullying the great beast's reputation. Still for a few hundred grams left so will give them a good workout


I only tried one bag on the royal and they were insanely hard to get working on that, I think the last shot out of the bag was the only good one. I was probably considerably less gooder at coffee back then.


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Limoncillo washed , all gone...moved onto the peaches n honey


Thats nom too , didn't nail the espresso of it tho


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Had some amazing Sweetshop pulled to a recipe of about 18 in, 35 out in 35 secs on regular grinders, couldn't get much out it on the Royal either. Thought the EK would get the greatness out it but they're old beans and they've been frozen so i'll put it down to that rather than sullying the great beast's reputation. Still for a few hundred grams left so will give them a good workout


Bang the temp up to 96 and pull a 20 - > 70g. report back


----------



## jeebsy

I'll try that for brekky. Will have to buy some bigger cups at this rate!


----------



## funinacup

jeebsy said:


> I'll try that for brekky. Will have to buy some bigger cups at this rate!


Hiya.

13characters


----------



## garydyke1

Get the spouts out


----------



## jeebsy

Using spouts all the time now but find my espresso cups max out at 55-60ml


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Using spouts all the time now but find my espresso cups max out at 55-60ml












I picked a couple of these up for my EK shots, they are thin walled so they cool quicker and they hold around 100ml. They were from John Lewis and cost a tenner inc saucer.


----------



## jeebsy

Saw some nice ones in JL today actually that looked a bit bigger than normal. Need to go back in tomorrow so might pick one or two up.


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Saw some nice ones in JL today actually that looked a bit bigger than normal. Need to go back in tomorrow so might pick one or two up.


The ones I picked up look nicer in real life, the photo makes them look a little distorted in shape, I wouldn't usually go for the style but they work well for the EK type shots I'm pulling at the moment.


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 7348


John Lewis House espresso cup, rated at 100ml, full of SM Kocherre. Ground at €3.5 20 in, 82 out in 19 secs pulled at 97 degrees. Considering everything that's wrong with it it's actually very drinkable.


----------



## garydyke1

20g ->59g -> 32 sec (inc 10 sec preinfusion) grind setting 1.9 old dial.

Utter car crash of a pour via the naked filter into a 6oz not neutral cup. Barely made it all into the cup, I had to turn away at one point, in sheer disgust.

Anyway it tasted pretty darn nice.

I think the bottom of the naked needs a bib or funnel, lol. Part of me wants to crank the grind to 1.0 so I can reminisce about the old days of naked-pour-porn, however I know the shot wouldnt taste great that way.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Lol gonna annoy you over the weekend and do some 17g>45 g naked of ek porns clips .....


----------



## Xpenno

First EK God Shot this morning....

Square Mile Red Brick

20g > 65g in about 30 Seconds. 3.3 on 3fe dial (2.2 standard). Nutated.

Great crema, really balanced flavours in the cup, really happy with that one


----------



## ronsil

I've tried those lungo pulls & they are very nice.

I usually drop the brew temp to 91C but that's personal preference.


----------



## garydyke1

..Interesting, using a 'not suitable for espresso Kenya'. grinding at absolute zero. 10 seconds pre-infusion. weight of the tamper only to level, no downwards pressure

20->59g -> 76 seconds!

Looked horribly over extracted, oily and like the top had been dusted with coco. First drips didnt hit the cup for over 25 seconds.

Actually it wasnt too bad!

I think backed off a couple of notches we would be in 'pour porn' territory !

Time to get the TDS meter out


----------



## Mrboots2u

ronsil said:


> I've tried those lungo pulls & they are very nice.
> 
> I usually drop the brew temp to 91C but that's personal preference.


I'm using chilled or unheated cups , and I seem to be in the middle ground , with a 1:2.6 ish . ( 17>42-44)

Following on from last nights tasting event it would appear I am not a super taster ....


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> ..Interesting, using a 'not suitable for espresso Kenya'. grinding at absolute zero. 10 seconds pre-infusion. weight of the tamper only to level, no downwards pressure
> 
> 20->59g -> 76 seconds!
> 
> Looked horribly over extracted, oily and like the top had been dusted with coco. First drips didnt hit the cup for over 25 seconds.
> 
> Actually it wasnt too bad!
> 
> I think backed off a couple of notches we would be in 'pour porn' territory !
> 
> Time to get the TDS meter out


Try this weeks IMM Dykey wanan see what the pump makes of it as espresso

And order your own TDS meter so I can have that one ...


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> First EK God Shot this morning....
> 
> Square Mile Red Brick
> 
> 20g > 65g in about 30 Seconds. 3.3 on 3fe dial (2.2 standard). Nutated.
> 
> Great crema, really balanced flavours in the cup, really happy with that one


After this morning I have real hope the 20-24% extractions are possibly at much shorter volumes, the key it seems it a very very very light tamp.

Grinding at zero and a normal tamp = break puck open and half of it hasnt seen the slightest drop of water pass through.

grinding at zero + lightest tamp possible = break puck open - fully saturated and even.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Hmm I wonder what extractions I'm pulling with the lever pre infusion etc ...Ali know is mine taste good


----------



## ronsil

Mrboots2u said:


> ...Ali know is mine taste good


So what else matters:good:


----------



## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> So what else matters:good:


100% repeatability


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> After this morning I have real hope the 20-24% extractions are possibly at much shorter volumes, the key it seems it a very very very light tamp.
> 
> Grinding at zero and a normal tamp = break puck open and half of it hasnt seen the slightest drop of water pass through.
> 
> grinding at zero + lightest tamp possible = break puck open - fully saturated and even.


Interesting. Looking forward to messing with this technique


----------



## Charliej

Spence Whilst out at a car boot sale this morning I saw a couple of things for sale on one of those stalls you get which sells brand new stuff bought from god knows where, but what they had were stainless steel pipes in various style and diameters designed to go over the end of your car exhaust to make it look like a stainless steel system on it. Anyway, one of them was a slash cut design and looked like the right sort of length and diameter to go over the existing exit chute of an EK, so I was thinking maybe that would help with static and slow the grounds down enough to distribute straight into the portafilter. Could be worth a look?


----------



## Xpenno

Cheers Charlie! I've tried all sorts including an exhaust reducer and the static remains. We're working on a 3d funnel so you can grind straight into the basket also the metal cup routine still works pretty well at the moment.

I did have a crazy thought about attaching a doser unit to it but I don't think it would fix the problem.

My brain is ticking away thinking up things in the background but I'm trying not to let them run riot and get in the way of actually making coffee


----------



## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> Cheers Charlie! I've tried all sorts including an exhaust reducer and the static remains. We're working on a 3d funnel so you can grind straight into the basket also the metal cup routine still works pretty well at the moment.
> 
> I did have a crazy thought about attaching a doser unit to it but I don't think it would fix the problem.
> 
> My brain is ticking away thinking up things in the background but I'm trying not to let them run riot and get in the way of actually making coffee


You've managed to get your quest subconsciously inside my head somehow and I don't and am not likely to own an EK lol.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Bolivia Finca David Vilca - been brewing this in Chemex - very pleasant but not getting the cherry Tunes.

Pulled as espresso: 17 grms > 35grms out in around 25 secs. Result - cherry tunes on steroids - mental.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Pulled as espresso: 17 grms > 35grms out in around 25 secs. Result - cherry tunes on steroids - mental.


Hi Patrick, is this the Cascara? Cherry tunes sounds a bit off the wall


----------



## The Systemic Kid

No really - cherry/blackcurrant Tunes. Recommend anyone to check it out. EricC came over on Sunday to have a look at the EK and we pulled a heap of shots. Pulled the Bolivian to show how it can tame the acidity in lighter roasts but wasn't prepared for the result. As I said - absolutely mental.


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> No really - cherry/blackcurrant Tunes. Recommend anyone to check it out. EricC came over on Sunday to have a look at the EK and we pulled a heap of shots. Pulled the Bolivian to show how it can tame the acidity in lighter roasts but wasn't prepared for the result. As I said - absolutely mental.


Both naturals (Farm and Mill) and the washed are also amazing coffees


----------



## Xpenno

That there John Gordon's EK43..... Nice!


----------



## ronsil

That's the clearest dial I've seen. Now the colours hmmmmm??


----------



## Xpenno

ronsil said:


> That's the clearest dial I've seen. Now the colours hmmmmm??


I dunno, I quite like purple


----------



## garydyke1

Another one to add to the scale/converter!


----------



## jeebsy

https://vine.co/v/Mp26JEKvrUn/embed/simple


----------



## funinacup

Spouts oan

13 characters


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Very minimalist - how was the coffee?


----------



## jeebsy

Little thin, even by ek standards - was a new bag of had bean finca de licho. Ended up about 55 out in 25 secs. Tasted ok but think it could be great with some playing about.


----------



## Xpenno

Just playing with some Atkinsons Prototype that Mr Boots picked up for me, getting some really nice shorter extractions with this, loads of blackberries with an acidic apple finish. Very nice!

I've been using the EK 100% for the last week or so and am getting to know it more and more. For the shorter extractions am finding that grinding finer works well then I'm nutating but only using the weight of the tamper, I do a couple of rotations and bring it up and centre, again no extra downward pressure. I guess the nutation gives a nice even distribution and the finer particle size means larger surface area to extract more in the shorter timeframe. The shot lasts around 32-34 seconds in general and it's 20g > 40g ratio and I'm at 2 on the 3fe dial.

I've also changed what I use water-wise and I'm currently using a 50/50 mix of volvic and clearview which I run through a BWT Mg2+ filter cartridge to add some extra Magnesium in (theoretically). Finding this to be a good balance and a nice improvement over using one or the other. I think it's as good as I can get from the bottle but the mineral content is still too low for ideal extraction.

On a side note, I tested my tap water and there are literally no positive coffee making elements at all to be had from it! Currently trying to decide on whether to go RO or filter, I've narrowed it down to two options I think.

Interesting times


----------



## Mrboots2u

Glad your enjoying the coffee spence . Weird how machines and technique differ for the same roast. I was at near zero for prototype but am pre infusing for 6 seconds . Also using more for in tamp...

This could be a stupid question but does anyone think that you can over tamp pressure wise with the ek ?

I know Callum was nutating and stomping down for some of the lighter roasts

Patrick was using the weight of the red barber only but again was at near zero for prototype also .


----------



## jeebsy

I've been experimenting with nutate and weight of tamp only, pucks are coming out so cleanly and in one piece which must indicate a more even extraction.


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> I've been experimenting with nutate and weight of tamp only, pucks are coming out so cleanly and in one piece which must indicate a more even extraction.


Even would equal slower presumably ...

Gary was commenting on what his pucks lime somewhere and that some parts looked like they hadn't had coffee through them.

If anyone up for pasting clip with your tamp technique and then how the pucks looks along with the figures of dose in dose out etc..

Lol if so I might send put a small amount of the same coffee to everyone or does everyone have some foundry stuff at the moment ?


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Glad your enjoying the coffee spence . Weird how machines and technique differ for the same roast. I was at near zero for prototype but am pre infusing for 6 seconds . Also using more for in tamp...
> 
> This could be a stupid question but does anyone think that you can over tamp pressure wise with the ek ?
> 
> I know Callum was nutating and stomping down for some of the lighter roasts
> 
> Patrick was using the weight of the red barber only but again was at near zero for prototype also .


I think if you pack the puck to tightly then you are at higher risk of channeling. I think all you are doing by smashing the puck with the tamper is slowing down the shot initially until the water finds the little cracks and all hell breaks loose







Pre-infusion will help as this will set the puck before the pressure hits it so there is less change of channelling. Unfortunately I don't have pre-infusion available to me at the moment....


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Even would equal slower presumably ...
> 
> Gary was commenting on what his pucks lime somewhere and that some parts looked like they hadn't had coffee through them.
> 
> If anyone up for pasting clip with your tamp technique and then how the pucks looks along with the figures of dose in dose out etc..
> 
> Lol if so I might send put a small amount of the same coffee to everyone or does everyone have some foundry stuff at the moment ?


I can try and do a vid, I'm on my own so it might prove interesting...

I should have some Foundry but I've not had chance to head over and grab it from Gary.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Excellent so that's at least 4 of us with the same coffee .... Would be an interesting experiment


----------



## The Systemic Kid

With Prototype - grinding at 1.5 on Callum's dial so that's half a click from zero.

20grms > 40grms out in around 25secs give or take with 5-6 sec pre-infusion. Fantastic in milk - malty start then you get a hint of green apples which builds and builds.

As for tamping - don't find nutating makes any difference - about 10lbs pressure and good to go.


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Glad your enjoying the coffee spence . Weird how machines and technique differ for the same roast. I was at near zero for prototype but am pre infusing for 6 seconds . Also using more for in tamp...
> 
> *This could be a stupid question but does anyone think that you can over tamp pressure wise with the ek ? *
> 
> I know Callum was nutating and stomping down for some of the lighter roasts
> 
> Patrick was using the weight of the red barber only but again was at near zero for prototype also .


Yes! Hard tamp = break open puck and half of it hasnt been saturated, soft tamp + preinfusion = fully saturated and higher TDS for same output


----------



## Xpenno

Video uploading, shot was a little faster than the others I've done this morning, probably down to the fact that I was holding the camera with one hand. Should give you a rough idea though.


----------



## Xpenno




----------



## Mrboots2u

Thanks spence ....that the atkisons ?


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Thanks spence ....that the atkisons ?


Yarp and very nice it was.


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Yes! Hard tamp = break open puck and half of it hasnt been saturated, soft tamp + preinfusion = fully saturated and higher TDS for same output


Hmm will examine my pucks today for evidence......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Light tamp - no nutating - lousy distribution - pretty decent extraction considering and dry puck to boot.

OK, wanna show your puck?


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Light tamp - no nutating - lousy distribution - pretty decent extraction considering and dry puck to boot.
> 
> OK, wanna show your puck?


Been on brew no puck to show .....


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Light tamp - no nutating - lousy distribution - pretty decent extraction considering and dry puck to boot.
> 
> OK, wanna show your puck?


Are you on a Lou Reed kick ?

What was the coffee?

Im not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in that puck?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Been on brew no puck to show .....


Paaaaardon?????


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you on a Lou Reed kick ?
> 
> What was the coffee?
> 
> Im not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in that puck?


1. Yes - sometimes I like to walk on the wild side

2. Java Jampit

3. With lousy barista technique, fine grind and light tamp, pucks come out intact. If you look closely, you can see one are of dark on the underside of the puck near the centre indicating under extraction which shows when the puck is broken in half.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> 1. Yes - sometimes I like to walk on the wild side
> 
> 2. Java Jampit
> 
> 3. With lousy barista technique, fine grind and light tamp, pucks come out intact. If you look closely, you can see one are of dark on the underside of the puck near the centre indicating under extraction which shows when the puck is broken in half.


1. Did you pluck your eyebrows today....

2. What about the nice light coffee i gave you today ...

3.How did it taste ......


----------



## Xpenno

Trying to upload some puckshots but google isn't playing ball. Just imagine a nice even brown with a couple of small darker spots one dead centre and a little round the edge, which on a VST I've come to love







The darker areas don't go all the way through the puck just on the base.


----------



## garydyke1

I can smell turkish delight


----------



## jeebsy

Well jel. Keen to hear how you get on


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> I can smell turkish delight


Got confirmation my set are ready for delivery and I'm sodding away for a couple of weeks.


----------



## coffeechap

good job you lot got a good deal, as those burrs have just added a pile more cash into the grinder.


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> good job you lot got a good deal, as those burrs have just added a pile more cash into the grinder.


& Increased resale value


----------



## garydyke1

The Systemic Kid said:


> Got confirmation my set are ready for delivery and I'm sodding away for a couple of weeks.


Boots will season them for you


----------



## Mrboots2u

Always last........


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Always last........


Last but not least

Save the best till last

Best things come to those who wait


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Boots will season them for you


Sure he would....but I wouldn't get them back


----------



## coffeechap

you lot have gor more money than sense!!


----------



## jeebsy

coffeechap said:


> you lot have gor more money than sense!!


Agreed, aff their heeds

Helping keep Britain out of recession though


----------



## The Systemic Kid

coffeechap said:


> you lot have gor more money than sense!!


Still cheaper than ****


----------



## garydyke1

Will be the last coffee related purchase for quite some time!


----------



## coffeechap

what will you do with that gear and no beans then gary?


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Agreed, aff their heeds
> 
> Helping keep Britain out of recession though


Keeping Germany afloat more like ....


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> you lot have gor more money than sense!!


Not hard is it , I never had much sense to start with


----------



## coffeechap

i am not going to refute that boots


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> i am not going to refute that boots


All gear no idea ....


----------



## coffeechap

no you have some great ideas!!! unfortunatley they relate to glasses


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> no you have some great ideas!!! unfortunatley they relate to glasses


lol to be fair I'm not much cop there either mate ....


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> what will you do with that gear and no beans then gary?


Dont think that will be an issue


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> lol to be fair I'm not much cop there either mate ....


Hopefully better with contact lenses


----------



## coffeechap

ah you must get the beans for free then gary!


----------



## Thecatlinux

Did someone say free beans?........where?


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Will be the last coffee related purchase for quite some time!


You said that about your Mazzer Mini


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> ah you must get the beans for free then gary!


IMM is paid for in advance, several months left on the subscription thankfully


----------



## funinacup

This just appeared in my kitchen!

Oh well, made a stunning coffee so I'll let it stay for the weekend


----------



## garydyke1

Its a storm trooper in white isnt it


----------



## Mrboots2u

This morning

IBAIRI ESPRESSO- Extract

20g in 20g vst . Grind 1.5 CD

50g out ( now in light tamp mode again )

Resulting cappuccino is chocolate , chocolate , chocolate ..

Did I say it tasted of chocolate ? Milk chocolate , not that dark chocolate people talk about . Nice smooth sweet ....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

funinacup said:


> This just appeared in my kitchen!
> 
> Oh well, made a stunning coffee so I'll let it stay for the weekend


Very nice Michael - can see why you chose white - complements the Moccamaster beautifully


----------



## michaelg

funinacup said:


> This just appeared in my kitchen!
> 
> Oh well, made a stunning coffee so I'll let it stay for the weekend


Will it be putting in an appearance in Machina any time soon or for home use only? I'd say feel free to stop by at mine with it to try out but it's a bit of a beast to transport I can imagine!


----------



## funinacup

It's a loaner from jeebsy but I may put it through its paces on the linea at Machina.


----------



## michaelg

funinacup said:


> It's a loaner from jeebsy but I may put it through its paces on the linea at Machina.


Nice! Having one in there permanently could make it the Mecca of the coffee geeks in Scotland!


----------



## Xpenno

Out with the old, in with the new.....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

That looks very nice.


----------



## Xpenno

Difference is crazy! The front knob doesn't really fit properly with the 3fe dial which is a bit of a bind... I've made do but it's bypassed the safety mech :S

Initial aim was for a traditional style ratio shot...

First two shots (2&3 on 3fe dial), nothing ever came out. 4 = 2 minute ristretto which was actually drinkable. 5 = 1 minute ristretto, getting there 6 = 25 seconds (might have been down to poor technique).

5.5-5 seems to be sweet spot so far for traditional type shots but have some work to do tomorrow. Need to assess the impact on the longer extractions as well. Not had a full on gusher yet. All shots that made it out of the basket were still balanced in flavour even when over/under extracted. Mouthfeel is certainly increased...

Now I need to offset the caffeine with beer in the sun...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Two minute ristretto - hilarious. Did you make yourself an instant while you waited, Spence?


----------



## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> Difference is crazy! The front knob doesn't really fit properly with the 3fe dial which is a bit of a bind... I've made do but it's bypassed the safety mech :S
> 
> Initial aim was for a traditional style ratio shot...
> 
> First two shots (2&3 on 3fe dial), nothing ever came out. 4 = 2 minute ristretto which was actually drinkable. 5 = 1 minute ristretto, getting there 6 = 25 seconds (might have been down to poor technique).
> 
> 5.5-5 seems to be sweet spot so far for traditional type shots but have some work to do tomorrow. Need to assess the impact on the longer extractions as well. Not had a full on gusher yet. All shots that made it out of the basket were still balanced in flavour even when over/under extracted. Mouthfeel is certainly increased...
> 
> Now I need to offset the caffeine with beer in the sun...


 And I thought I was pushing it with 90 second ristretto's lol


----------



## jeebsy

Turkish burrs sound the business but they'll have to wait


----------



## garydyke1

I need to see these Turks in action!


----------



## jeebsy

Did you not get a pair?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

garydyke1 said:


> Its a storm trooper in white isnt it


LOL....The Imperial grinder


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Two minute ristretto - hilarious. Did you make yourself an instant while you waited, Spence?


Yeah, I knew that nescafe would come in handy one day.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> I need to see these Turks in action!


You do! What you up to today?


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> You do! What you up to today?


I think late arvo , early evening = coffee

Need to do some chores, shopping etc first


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Did you not get a pair?


On back order


----------



## Mrboots2u

20g on 13 ( CD. )

Brian ( who is Brian ? .... Brain







) and heart says I love this .

Tongue and brain can't tell me why..( and neither can Brian )

Upfront toffee? Cooling Fruit , jammy , plum ? Dunno .

Edit syrup like mouthfeel on this too

Excellent though ...


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Upfront toffee? Cooling Fruit , jammy , plum ? Dunno .


I would buy that coffee


----------



## jeebsy

Re the cool portafilter thing, I understand wanting the drink cooler/chilled glasses so the flavours come through more as with brewed but should extraction not take place at the same temp as normal?


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Re the cool portafilter thing, I understand wanting the drink cooler/chilled glasses so the flavours come through more as with brewed but should extraction not take place at the same temp as normal?


It's quite easy to over extract on the EK so I guess it means that the puck heats up slower and less chance of overs.

I don't do it BTW.


----------



## ShortShots

Colombia Finca Los Robles Alfredo Sanchez. 20g in (20g VST) 44g out in 24 seconds ground ojn 0.6 (old dial). Beautifully sweet and balanced, Red apples and cinnamon. Very pleased might try and extract higher still as very light roast


----------



## Mrboots2u

ShortShots said:


> Colombia Finca Los Robles Alfredo Sanchez. 20g in (20g VST) 44g out in 24 seconds ground ojn 0.6 (old dial). Beautifully sweet and balanced, Red apples and cinnamon. Very pleased might try and extract higher still as very light roast


Was this through the lever or the pump ?


----------



## ShortShots

pumped 13 characters


----------



## Mrboots2u

So yesterday's evening had some friends round and the EK showed it's versatility with the following coffee menu ...

Epsresso - cult of done ( workshop ) - fruity blackcurrant , lemon my finish niceeeeeeee

Chemex - gathaithi PB ( workshop ) delightful clean Kenyan exquisite as it cools

Flat whites - EL SALVADOR FINCA LA FANY WASHED BOURBON ( hasbean ) - sweet caremel uncomplicated but nom

More flat whites - Nicaragua Finca Milagros ( 3fe ) - toffee , plummy , lighter than above still sweet and complex

Of and fish and chips

Good evening. ....


----------



## garydyke1

Ethiosar Pulped natural

18g - > 43g - > 24 sec @ 95c

1.5 old dial.

Melted-choc-in-doublecream mouthfeel....dark bitter bakers choco up front , milk chocolate middle and dried fruit finish....little tingle of bitterness at the very end. Maybe even a bit of nut going on.

This is all very 'un Has Bean' isnt it?


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> So yesterday's evening had some friends round and the EK showed it's versatility with the following coffee menu ...
> 
> Epsresso - cult of done ( workshop ) - fruity blackcurrant , lemon my finish niceeeeeeee
> 
> Chemex - gathaithi PB ( workshop ) delightful clean Kenyan exquisite as it cools
> 
> Flat whites - EL SALVADOR FINCA LA FANY WASHED BOURBON ( hasbean ) - sweet caremel uncomplicated but nom
> 
> More flat whites - Nicaragua Finca Milagros ( 3fe ) - toffee , plummy , lighter than above still sweet and complex
> 
> Of and fish and chips
> 
> Good evening. ....


''Flat whites - EL SALVADOR FINCA LA FANY WASHED BOURBON ( hasbean ) - sweet caremel uncomplicated but nom''

Thats very un Has Bean. what is this strange trend of non 'commonly held belief' ??!?


----------



## jeebsy

How were you doing your flatties bootsy? Split pours? Or shorter pulls? I've stopped drinking milky drinks but still make them for family


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:



> How were you doing your flatties bootsy? Split pours? Or shorter pulls? I've stopped drinking milky drinks but still make them for family


Splits into 4-5 oz cups so ended up being 18-20 g in each

Firstly tasted good , secondly easier to make 4 drinks with da lever like that .

Seemed to go down well. Was chuffed a people drank espresso and brewed for the first time and wanted more !!!!!


----------



## jeebsy

I've been doing 19 in to 35-40 in one cup and which seem to go down well but I'll do a split tonight and see if anyone comments/notices. Thought it might be a bit 'watery' after being diluted with milk but need to give it a blast


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> I've been doing 19 in to 35-40 in one cup and which seem to go down well but I'll do a split tonight and see if anyone comments/notices. Thought it might be a bit 'watery' after being diluted with milk but need to give it a blast


Depends on the bean and the flavours I suppose , the cult of done I probably wouldn't split as it might get lost.....

The hasbean and the 3fe were bolder favours and worked well as splits In small milk ....


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> I've been doing 19 in to 35-40 in one cup and which seem to go down well but I'll do a split tonight and see if anyone comments/notices. Thought it might be a bit 'watery' after being diluted with milk but need to give it a blast


Just had the IMM from El Salvador ....

19 > 38 then all in a flattie

Best milk drink front he EK yet . Caramel and Toffee , proper comfort milk drink . Yummy and very surprising the body and the taste.

So perhaps it just down to the type of coffee and how its roasted after all.....


----------



## jeebsy

Made a Chemex with the Ethiosar, still had my sleepy head on and totally cocked up my ratios, ground 33g thinking this would give me 300ml then started pouring and realised this wasn't going to work as my Chemex maxes out at 400ml. Just went for that, took about 4 mins (€20), flavours slightly non distinct while drinking but can taste cheap chocolate and nuts now, really nice in a dirty way like a Cadbury's whole nut or something.


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> Just had the IMM from El Salvador ....
> 
> 19 > 38 then all in a flattie
> 
> Best milk drink front he EK yet . Caramel and Toffee , proper comfort milk drink . Yummy and very surprising the body and the taste.
> 
> So perhaps it just down to the type of coffee and how its roasted after all.....


Hello

Sounds nice but can I ask for the full name - cant work out IMM, sorry

cheers

JKK


----------



## Neill

JKK said:


> Hello
> 
> Sounds nice but can I ask for the full name - cant work out IMM, sorry
> 
> cheers
> 
> JKK


IMM stands for in my mug, the hasbean subscription.


----------



## Mrboots2u

JKK said:


> Hello
> 
> Sounds nice but can I ask for the full name - cant work out IMM, sorry
> 
> cheers
> 
> JKK


Sorry hasbean

EL SALVADOR FINCA LA FANY WASHED BOURBON ( hasbean ) - sweet caremel uncomplicated but nom


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Ethiosar Pulped natural
> 
> 18g - > 43g - > 24 sec @ 95c
> 
> 1.5 old dial.
> 
> Melted-choc-in-doublecream mouthfeel....dark bitter bakers choco up front , milk chocolate middle and dried fruit finish....little tingle of bitterness at the very end. Maybe even a bit of nut going on.
> 
> This is all very 'un Has Bean' isnt it?


Next week is chocolate limes though ....back on more familiar territory ,....


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Next week is chocolate limes though ....back on more familiar territory ,....


Thats typical of the origin tho, not the roaster, lol


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Thats typical of the origin tho, not the roaster, lol


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Next week is chocolate limes though ....back on more familiar territory ,....


What's next week? Sounds interesting....


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> What's next week? Sounds interesting....


ETHIOPIA SHAKISO MORMORA PLANTATION WASHED

Right away you feel the presence of lime saying hello, he slowly wanders off and leaves you with a subtle chocolate friend, I want you to think about chocolate lime sweets and you'll be right there. As you make your way through the cup you'll keep the sweetness from the start but slowly come to a long lasting dark chocolate finish.


----------



## Xpenno

Sounds pretty good, might have to order some for the Mrs, she loves chocolate limes


----------



## Xpenno

I've only got this at the moment, it's still needs more resting but I'm getting OK shots from it at the moment, the grape acidity is sooo smooth and tasty I can't wait for this one to balance out


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> I've only got this at the moment, it's still needs more resting but I'm getting OK shots from it at the moment, the grape acidity is sooo smooth and tasty I can't wait for this one to balance out


My be coincidence but Columbian coffee always seem to peak >10 days for me


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Sounds pretty good, might have to order some for the Mrs, she loves chocolate limes


Get on an IMM subscription - can't go wrong


----------



## Mrboots2u

Burrs seem to be settling down , grinding latest IMM at 1.6-7 ( CD )

Anyway more drinks morning .......

19g in 41g out 4 second pre infusion after that no idea

Predictable split pourzzzzzzz

Nicaraguan from 3fe ( once again thanks C_Sqaured )

Espresso Buuterscotch and plum

Milk - Big butterscotch and toffee and stone fruits of some description ?

Niceeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Xpenno

After managing to accidently reset the PID on my Verona which just made coffee go bad, I scored a bag of Caravan Dumerso yesterday. First time using Caravan at home and I have to say that it's one hell of a coffee. Have tried a bunch of different shots from long to short, various grind settings and temps today and I've not managed to make a bad coffee. It's gone from super-sweet pink grapefruit segments with sugar sprinkled on thought to dried apricots with zested lemon peel. A real winner for sure!


----------



## jeebsy

Caravan is brilliant coffee, can imagine it being amazing on the EK


----------



## tribs

Not a drink I would normally go for but EK Americanos are superb. Anyone else tried them?


----------



## jeebsy

What is your espresso shot like before adding water?


----------



## Mrboots2u

tribs said:


> Not a drink I would normally go for but EK Americanos are superb. Anyone else tried them?


And with or workout milk


----------



## michaelg

Workout milk? Not sure I fancy that, Boots!


----------



## Mrboots2u

michaelg said:


> Workout milk? Not sure I fancy that, Boots!


Lol I'm not feeling very well today ....


----------



## michaelg

Mrboots2u said:


> Lol I'm not feeling very well today ....


Me neither but that's my own fault - a visit to Drygate Brewery Restaurant last night coupled with an ambition to try as wide a variety of the beers on tap as possible didn't make for a great start to the morning! Just glad I work from home!


----------



## coffeechap

michaelg said:


> Me neither but that's my own fault - a visit to Drygate Brewery Restaurant last night coupled with an ambition to try as wide a variety of the beers on tap as possible didn't make for a great start to the morning! Just glad I work from home!


Or from your bed!!


----------



## michaelg

It was tempting this morning but I made it out of bed eventually! Can't say it's been the most productive morning mind you!


----------



## tribs

jeebsy said:


> What is your espresso shot like before adding water?


Very, very good. But, I am suffering from hayfever / nasal drip which is affecting my tastebuds somewhat and I am struggling more than a couple of sips of espresso and I can't touch hoppy beer 

What I am doing at the moment, is split pours. Half flat white and half espresso. Taste the espresso, assess the quality of the shot, top up with water.

I am making fewer filter brews presently due to getting to grips with the Veloce, but these mini americanos seem to have close to the clarity of flavours of a V60 but with improved sweetness and far far better consistency.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Chemex

Gathaithi PB - Workshop Roasters

25g at 13 ( CD )

45 g bloom then water added in three stages up to 475g ( props MWJB )

Finished at a crazy 5 minutes plus but....

Delightful , Blackcurrant , sweet lime finish

Taste profile seems more separate, more sweet ,more lime , more likey


----------



## garydyke1

tribs said:


> these mini americanos seem to have close to the clarity of flavours of a V60 but with improved sweetness and far far better consistency.


Running shots 18g - > 60-70g has a similar effect : )

Or 20/21 - > 60-70g if you're clinging onto the mouthfeel thing for dear life


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> if you're clinging onto the mouthfeel thing for dear life


Lol, surely if you could have both then that would be a good thing, no?


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Lol, surely if you could have both then that would be a good thing, no?


Not sure I could drink 70g of espresso textured liquid, i'd give it a go though


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Not sure I could drink 70g of espresso textured liquid, i'd give it a go though


Jammy







........


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Not sure I could drink 70g of espresso textured liquid, i'd give it a go though


Why 70g though? What if you had to pull 70g because your water didn't have enough extracting power to create the same flavour in half the output?


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Why 70g though? What if you had to pull 70g because your water didn't have enough extracting power to create the same flavour in half the output?


He wanted a mini americano , no? Hence adding water to his espresso ? No need just run the EK longer


----------



## tribs

garydyke1 said:


> Running shots 18g - > 60-70g has a similar effect : )
> 
> Or 20/21 - > 60-70g if you're clinging onto the mouthfeel thing for dear life


Shots stop at around 50-55g on the lever. I've not mastered the felini technique yet though. Still playing around with temperature.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> He wanted a mini americano , no? Hence adding water to his espresso ? No need just run the EK longer


Sorry mate, I though you were referring to EK shots in general, as you were! If you want an americano then I agree, just pull a long EK shot. I found that EK espresso type shots diluted in more water don't taste as nice as long EK shots diluted in less (or no) water.


----------



## Xpenno

tribs said:


> Shots stop at around 50-55g on the lever. I've not mastered the felini technique yet though. Still playing around with temperature.


On a pour that you would class as good, how long does it take to extract 55g on the L1 just out of interest?


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> I though you were referring to EK shots in general, as you were!


Todays IMM La Fany shots have been 18g-> 43/45g a wonderful combination of melted chocolate mouthfeel and sweet sweet toffee and caramel. Sheer joy. I dare not turn the oven on


----------



## coffeechap

Xpenno said:


> On a pour that you would class as good, how long does it take to extract 55g on the L1 just out of interest?


Surely that would depend on how fine the grind is, I have pulled 50-60 gram shots with a very short second pull over the nominal 27 seconds and if left to run out sit at around 70 gr


----------



## tribs

Xpenno said:


> On a pour that you would class as good, how long does it take to extract 55g on the L1 just out of interest?


Not L1, QM Veloce Prototype, but it's the same group, so probably behaves very similar.

It does depend. I have discovered I can control the shot in many different ways, but it's too early to know what's best for what. For example, I can allow the steam pressure to drop to decrease the pressure of infusion and this delays the start of the pour, or explosion with the EK







. I can also hold the lever back, which presumably reduces the pressure during extraction and slows down the rest of the shot, but this moves farther away from traditional espresso. I am quite enjoying the lower pressure preinfusion and let the shot run at full (spring pressure) at the moment.

It's also worth pointing out, that with the lever you get the majority of the shot in the middle, I'd say up to about 40g and then the next 10-15g drip slowly as the pressure drops. So a typical shot would be

start the timer, pull down for preinfuse

6 secs lift the lever to start extraction proper.

9-15 secs for first drops

20-25 secs ~40g

drip drip up to 55g in ~40-50 secs


----------



## tribs

coffeechap said:


> Surely that would depend on how fine the grind is, I have pulled 50-60 gram shots with a very short second pull over the nominal 27 seconds and if left to run out sit at around 70 gr


I've not really played with felini pulls yet. I had one go, but didn't seem to make any difference to total volume, but I could have done it wrong.

Also, with the EK, I am always at finest setting.


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Todays IMM La Fany shots have been 18g-> 43/45g a wonderful combination of melted chocolate mouthfeel and sweet sweet toffee and caramel. Sheer joy. I dare not turn the oven on


Damn you oven! Looking forward to trying it mate


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Damn you oven! Looking forward to trying it mate


I blame the oven, the oven blames the weather and the weather blames me.


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> Surely that would depend on how fine the grind is, I have pulled 50-60 gram shots with a very short second pull over the nominal 27 seconds and if left to run out sit at around 70 gr


Of course. I was just trying to get a feel for how long it took on a regular shot with the pressure ramp down. I never timed one while I was there. I presume you could grind light and do 20 into 60g in 24 secs?


----------



## Charliej

tribs said:


> Not L1, QM Veloce Prototype, but it's the same group, so probably behaves very similar.
> 
> It does depend. I have discovered I can control the shot in many different ways, but it's too early to know what's best for what. For example, I can allow the steam pressure to drop to decrease the pressure of infusion and this delays the start of the pour, or explosion with the EK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I can also hold the lever back, which presumably reduces the pressure during extraction and slows down the rest of the shot, but this moves farther away from traditional espresso. I am quite enjoying the lower pressure preinfusion and let the shot run at full (spring pressure) at the moment.
> 
> It's also worth pointing out, that with the lever you get the majority of the shot in the middle, I'd say up to about 40g and then the next 10-15g drip slowly as the pressure drops. So a typical shot would be
> 
> start the timer, pull down for preinfuse
> 
> 6 secs lift the lever to start extraction proper.
> 
> 9-15 secs for first drops
> 
> 20-25 secs ~40g
> 
> drip drip up to 55g in ~40-50 secs


Surely holding the lever back while the shot is pulling, would actually keep the pressure higher for longer, as usually when using normal the pressure declines as the lever rises?


----------



## coffeechap

Holding the lever back just slows the shot down, if you stall the lever I.e hold it still, there is no pressure at all as the spring is not moving


----------



## Charliej

coffeechap said:


> Holding the lever back just slows the shot down, if you stall the lever I.e hold it still, there is no pressure at all as the spring is not moving


I should have been more explanatory I guess. If he is holding the lever and retarding the upward motion so that it still rises but at a slower rate then the puck is subjected to a higher pressure for longer than would be normal, as it takes longer for the lever to rise to the full extent. In terms of say the way the steps on a Vesuvius go it is making the pressure transitions slower so the time for which is subjected to say 8 BAR would be longer than the standard lever pressure profile?


----------



## tribs

Just to avoid confusion, when I say hold the lever back, I mean stop it from rising naturally.


----------



## MWJB

Charliej said:


> I should have been more explanatory I guess. If he is holding the lever and retarding the upward motion so that it still rises but at a slower rate then the puck is subjected to a higher pressure for longer than would be normal, as it takes longer for the lever to rise to the full extent. In terms of say the way the steps on a Vesuvius go it is making the pressure transitions slower so the time for which is subjected to say 8 BAR would be longer than the standard lever pressure profile?


Thinking about it mechanically, any force used to retard the lever should surely be deducted from the spring's force on the piston? If you hold the lever still then the spring is surely clamped and the puck is left under preinfusion pressure....unless you have a Strega then it's under full blind pump pressure (with the lever cocked at any rate)?


----------



## jeebsy

Now in situ ( from caffeine mag's Facebook)


----------



## garydyke1

Not so sure I like it within its surroundings


----------



## jeebsy

Looks like the inserts on the shelves are purple too but the finish doesn't appear quite as nice there


----------



## garydyke1

Its all a bit Cadburys


----------



## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> Its all a bit Cadburys


Or "the grinder formally known as..." ;-)


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 7691


View attachment 7692


Unscrewed the hopper thing, slid jakepeter's thing down the shaft (oooh matron) and put a metal lens hood on the top - streamlines it a bit.


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 7729


From Home Barista - disassembled next to a Santos base


----------



## The Systemic Kid

That motor is ridiculous!

Those aerosols seem deep in conversation about something - probably discussing MP's new TempaTamp thingy


----------



## garydyke1

The motor looks like something off a jet fighter


----------



## Xpenno

To follow up the successes of Columbia in the ongoing soccor game thing that's going on at the moment, I've decided to double team up on two colombian coffees so today it's Has Bean Finca Los Pomos Washed Caturra vs Round Hill Espresso blend (another washed caturra).

I've stepped back down to the 18g VST as I think the 20g was actually resting on the bottom of my portafilter and restricting flow. 18g is producing shots that taste are amazing. I'm currently 18g in and around 35g out in around 30 seconds which seems to work pretty well.

Has Bean was first up and the sweetness in the cup was amazing it was like grape juice, a hint of pink lady apple and a good dollop of caramac melted in for good measure. In americano it was like toffee wowzers!

The Round Hill was next up to the plate, there was nuts right up in there, again amazing sweetness, bit more chocolate that the toffee in the Has Bean.

Both coffees were absurdly good, very happy day indeed!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Turkish burrs? Toffee wowser sounds good


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Turkish burrs? Toffee wowser sounds good


Turkish all the way mate! I'd be interested to try the Coffee burrs with my treated water, maybe Mr **** will bring his EK round for a play.....


----------



## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Turkish all the way mate! I'd be interested to try the Coffee burrs with my treated water, maybe Mr **** will bring his EK round for a play.....


In 2016......?


----------



## Xpenno

You're a busy man! The kidney trade is a hard one to get started in so this is understandable.


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> In 2016......?


is Dat wen dem burrs be ready baldy man...


----------



## Mrboots2u

ETHIOPIA SHAKISO MORMORA PLANTATION WASHED

18.5g in 18 g vst at 1.4 CD ( yeah jargon baby , jargon )

38g out in a passage of time i now longer measure .......

As per IMM - Sweet lime chocolate nomety nom


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> ETHIOPIA SHAKISO MORMORA PLANTATION WASHED
> 
> 18.5g in 18 g vst at 1.4 CD ( yeah jargon baby , jargon )
> 
> 38g out in a passage of time i now longer measure .......
> 
> As per IMM - Sweet lime chocolate nomety nom


opening mine later


----------



## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> To follow up the successes of Columbia in the ongoing soccor game thing that's going on at the moment, I've decided to double team up on two colombian coffees so today it's Has Bean Finca Los Pomos Washed Caturra vs Round Hill Espresso blend (another washed caturra).
> 
> I've stepped back down to the 18g VST as I think the 20g was actually resting on the bottom of my portafilter and restricting flow. 18g is producing shots that taste are amazing. I'm currently 18g in and around 35g out in around 30 seconds which seems to work pretty well.
> 
> Has Bean was first up and the sweetness in the cup was amazing it was like grape juice, a hint of pink lady apple and a good dollop of caramac melted in for good measure. In americano it was like toffee wowzers!
> 
> The Round Hill was next up to the plate, there was nuts right up in there, again amazing sweetness, bit more chocolate that the toffee in the Has Bean.
> 
> Both coffees were absurdly good, very happy day indeed!


Spence, did you get the Round Hill beans directly from them? I've heard a lot of good stuff about them, but every time I look at their website it's still not functional.


----------



## tribs

Read an interesting comment from Matt Perger



> When the EK is calibrated to have the burrs lightly scraping together at the finest setting (this should always be the case) there is plenty of freedom to grind from espresso all the way through to batch brew/plunger and beyond.
> 
> I personally recommend the coffee burrs, as I've found the extraction yield to be a little higher and tastier than the turkish. That said, I've heard some people enjoying the Turkish burrs for espresso as they 'choke' the flow of the machine a little easier, enabling 30 second shots with greater ease.
> 
> Feel free to let me know how you go, and if you have any problems!!
> 
> M


Sounds like he is suggesting zero should be at contact rather than 10 degrees away as advised by Mahlkonig's User Guide.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

tribs said:


> Read an interesting comment from Matt Perger. Sounds like he is suggesting zero should be at contact rather than 10 degrees away as advised by Mahlkonig's User Guide.


Brave man then. Would mean the user would always have to check to ensure against burr contact.


----------



## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> Spence, did you get the Round Hill beans directly from them? I've heard a lot of good stuff about them, but every time I look at their website it's still not functional.


Nah, got them from Faculty in Brum as they had a couple of bag for retail. I had a look on their website to try and order some more and the cupboard was bare.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Brave man then. Would mean the user would always have to check to ensure against burr contact.


That's how I do mine. They are only very lightly touching at zero. I don't run it anywhere near that on the Turks and I was actually going to make zero closer to 3 or 4 so that the rest of the dial options are opened up


----------



## jeebsy

Mine lightly touch at 0 too.


----------



## garydyke1

The shots I've been pulling since the burrs have worn in a bit are making me think twice about buying Turks. At first the lack of body was an issue , I don't miss it now really .


----------



## Thecatlinux

The Systemic Kid said:


> Brave man then. Would mean the user would always have to check to ensure against burr contact.


 Probably gets his burr sets for free


----------



## Mrboots2u

You put your burrs in tsk


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Arriving this week.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thecatlinux said:


> Probably gets his burr sets for free


He'd need to at £350 plus for a replacement set.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Thought u had them already


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Thought u had them already


Could have had them two weeks ago but postponed delivery as I was away.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Could have had them two weeks ago but postponed delivery as I was away.


Lol I could have had them two weeks ago....


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Nice courier man dropped off the Turkish burrs this morning. Just finished fitting them

Don't seem that different to coffee burrs at first sight

View attachment 7768


Difference is noticeable at the outer edge. Where the coffee burrs have a definable ridge (left pic), the Turkish are almost smooth - hence their ability to grind to flour consistency.

View attachment 7769
View attachment 7770


----------



## tribs

It looks like it will be milling the beans rather than grinding. I'm looking forward to some feedback on differences in the cup.


----------



## garydyke1

Hope you got plenty of beans to season


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Now, who was it who said the Turks didn't need as much seasoning at the coffees??









Have set aside 250grms - that should do it!!


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Now, who was it who said the Turks didn't need as much seasoning at the coffees??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have set aside 250grms - that should do it!!


Typo? 250kg, yes?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Typo? 250kg, yes?


Really? Holy s**t - better get roasting then


----------



## Xpenno

For me the Turks started off producing shots where the crema was more like oil, it was very strange and made me feel quite ill. I spent a day testing with Gary and everything tasted pretty bad. Since then I've run through in the region of 12kg (10kg very kindly donated by a fellow forum member) of of beans and everything has fallen into place. I'm finding that the adjustment for the espresso range is pretty small and has moved by about 1 major increment (from around 5 to around 4) on the 3fe dial.

I can run relatively normal ratio shots (18 -> 35g in 30 seconds) without drama and am getting amazing flavours and sweetness in the cup. Mouthfeel is improved which makes me think that they may produce more fines but I have no idea on that really. I am also still able to run higher weight output shots that taste pretty much the same as those on the coffee.

My only regret is that I've not tested the two sets side-by-side with my newly treated (filtered and remineralised) water supply. I'm hoping that Gary might have an hour at some point to get the two EKs in the room together to see which comes out king.

If you prefer old school shots then Turkish might be what you're after, if the nuevo lungo is where it's at then the coffee burrs and turks both perform but the lack of side-by-side is niggling at me and I'm too scared to take them out again


----------



## Xpenno

250kg is a bit overkill, 100kg has been seriously banded about as they are higher grade steel. At the end of the day they are made to higher tolerances so should required less seasoning and I'm happy after 12kg.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Nice courier man dropped off the Turkish burrs this morning. Just finished fitting them
> 
> Don't seem that different to coffee burrs at first sight
> 
> View attachment 7768
> 
> 
> Difference is noticeable at the outer edge. Where the coffee burrs have a definable ridge (left pic), the Turkish are almost smooth - hence their ability to grind to flour consistency.
> 
> View attachment 7769
> View attachment 7770


The cutting surface is quite different also


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Just pulled a couple of espressos - wasn't expecting much. Used some Doyo Cooperative from Foundry Roasters.

Set the dial to 5 on the Callum Dial. 17grms > 35grms out. Drips started couple of seconds into pre-infusion. Didn't time as I expected it to be a sink shot. Reasonable light brown crema which surprised me given Spence's experiences above. Mrs Systemic volunteered to try it and pronounced it OK. Next shot - tightened the grind half a click to 4.5.

18grms > 36grms. Shot ran longer with no dripping during pre-infusion - no gushing either. Again, decent crema - tasted pretty sweet too which I wasn't expecting.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Just pulled a couple of espressos - wasn't expecting much. Used some Doyo Cooperative from Foundry Roasters.
> 
> Set the dial to 5 on the Callum Dial. 17grms > 35grms out. Drips started couple of seconds into pre-infusion. Didn't time as I expected it to be a sink shot. Reasonable light brown crema which surprised me given Spence's experiences above. Mrs Systemic volunteered to try it and pronounced it OK. Next shot - tightened the grind half a click to 4.5.
> 
> 18grms > 36grms. Shot ran longer with no dripping during pre-infusion - no gushing either. Again, decent crema - tasted pretty sweet too which I wasn't expecting.


I could have just been having a bad day









I did manage to get some decent shots before I ran the 10kg through. I had nothing to go on so was trying shots all over the place, very little method to the madness.

I find that the espresso shots on the Turkish produce sweeter shots at smaller weights and when you nail them they are awesome


----------



## jeebsy

Craft Coffee (my favourite shop in London) had turkish and they'd pull 35-40 out in 35s. Their shots tasted AMAZING.


----------



## garydyke1

Another required test is brewed coffee from the coffee v Turks


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Craft Coffee (my favourite shop in London) had turkish and they'd pull 35-40 out in 35s. Their shots tasted AMAZING.


Thanks for the tip


----------



## garydyke1

Now that the EK I currently have is almost seasoned (lol) I have to say the brewed coffee I am getting is the best I've ever had. Once I realised that grinding a bit finer and running a bit more water through was required , compared to the Maestro+, the difference is night and day. For the first time I am discovering multi-layers aromas and flavours which were not possible before. There is no wild acidity or bovrily over extraction of fines.

Exciting to think all this is being achieved with pretty average water , get that optimised then who knows what will happen!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Are you checking the TDS/yield, Gary. My best Chemex comes in at around 19%. Today's was under 19% and still excellent in terms of flavour clarity.


----------



## tribs

I've not had a chemex for ages. I am going to brew one shortly. What ballpark grind setting would you suggest for 500g output?

Edit (grams not mls)


----------



## garydyke1

My brews are not that big, but today I was on 8.5 old dial


----------



## garydyke1

These coffee burrs have definitely changed over the course of being used/seasoned, finding the grind needing to be less fine to achieve slower flow rates

At setting 1.5 (old dial) with a very tight tamp

18.1g - > 43g -> 29 seconds (inc 10 sec preinfusion) @ 94c

Came out at 22% extraction & did actually taste a little over. The lime cordial flavours had veered slightly into bitter grapefruit territory.

Tried again removing preinfusion and completely choked the Sage, poor thing, no drips for 20 seconds.


----------



## Xpenno

Good stuff mate!

I installed the Coffee burrs last night now that I've had a few weeks with Turkish and the new water. Looking forward to getting home tonight.

Once I've got them down it's over to the K10 for a couple of weeks, then I guess I need to make some sort of decision


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> My brews are not that big, but today I was on 8.5 old dial


how big are you brews then?

20g dose


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> how big are you brews then?
> 
> 20g dose


Depends on a) how much coffee I have left and b) how suited to brewed im finding it

20g ->340-350g

or

25g - > 440g ish


----------



## Charliej

So when are all you guys changing your minds and buying Compak R120's







must be about due any time now as some of you have actually had time to properly season your burrs and start on an extra set


----------



## Mrboots2u

Yawn.... . .. .


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> These coffee burrs have definitely changed over the course of being used/seasoned, finding the grind needing to be less fine to achieve slower flow rates
> 
> At setting 1.5 (old dial) with a very tight tamp
> 
> 18.1g - > 43g -> 29 seconds (inc 10 sec preinfusion) @ 94c
> 
> Came out at 22% extraction & did actually taste a little over. The lime cordial flavours had veered slightly into bitter grapefruit territory.
> 
> Tried again removing preinfusion and completely choked the Sage, poor thing, no drips for 20 seconds.


You guys have really got to season the burrs properly on these grinders, the EK at rave has had 40 kgs through it and is absolutely nowhere near zero, so people have to remember to get the very best out of the big commercial deli grinders you have to get them burrs seasoned, my r120 will have 50 kgs through it before I even consider using it.


----------



## 4085

Just makes me so pleased I do not want one!!


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> You guys have really got to season the burrs properly on these grinders, the EK at rave has had 40 kgs through it and is absolutely nowhere near zero, so people have to remember to get the very best out of the big commercial deli grinders you have to get them burrs seasoned, my r120 will have 50 kgs through it before I even consider using it.


50kg!!

Just make sure that you don't exceed the maximum running time CC! 2 mins on followed by 1 min off.

Agreed on this though, even the 14kg I put through mine changed the grind setting my 1 major point on the scale.


----------



## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> Just makes me so pleased I do not want one!!


What does? Not having to season your burrs? You should probably still do this even with a smaller grinder/burr set. The Burrs on my Royal took over 10kg to bed them in nicely, not sure that this should be a big consideration when deciding whether to buy one or not. Now if you'd have said hefty price tag and size/weight then I'd be fully with you


----------



## ronsil

I'm running nowhere near zero.

Just checked to see if the burrs needed zeroing again but not necessary.

Have slowed down in use currently whilst waiting my new machine but I reckon I've put through circa 25 kilos.

Always have plenty notches available.


----------



## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> So when are all you guys changing your minds and buying Compak R120's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> must be about due any time now as some of you have actually had time to properly season your burrs and start on an extra set


The only difference between the R120 and the EK is the mountain of actual evidence to say why the EK is such a great grinder for coffee. When the R120 takes it's crown and we break the current theoretical extraction yeild, single dosing is the best it even has been, then I'll have one (maybe two) as well as a new re-enforced worktop for it to sit on


----------



## coffeechap

The recommended seasoning on the Turkish burr set is 100 kg!!! ( how many of you that have paid the extra for those burrs can get that much coffee through them) remember they are at their optimum once and only once this has been done!

I agree spence not sure why people mock these grinders, zero retention amazing extraction, the ek43 certainly has a crown, that's why I have one! Would be nice to see other grinders in the same zone hence the r120, but it is unproven.

I am putting 50 kgs through it to make sure it is on parr with the ek43 when we do side by side stuff at the Titan event in July. There is no point in evaluating grinders side by side if they are not seasoned correctly. The key learning point for others considering these grinders is find someone to season the burrs properly, otherwise you are just not getting the very best out of them from the start.


----------



## jeebsy

ronsil said:


> I'm running nowhere near zero.
> 
> Just checked to see if the burrs needed zeroing again but not necessary.
> 
> Have slowed down in use currently whilst waiting my new machine but I reckon I've put through circa 25 kilos.
> 
> Always have plenty notches available.


I'm running at 1.5-2 on the 3fe dial for 50-60 out in 25 secs. Get a wee chirp about 1.2


----------



## Mrboots2u

I'm using callums dial. No idea what is translates too


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> The recommended seasoning on the Turkish burr set is 100 kg!!! ( how many of you that have paid the extra for those burrs can get that much coffee through them) remember they are at their optimum once and only once this has been done!
> 
> I agree spence not sure why people mock these grinders, zero retention amazing extraction, the ek43 certainly has a crown, that's why I have one! Would be nice to see other grinders in the same zone hence the r120, but it is unproven.
> 
> I am putting 50 kgs through it to make sure it is on parr with the ek43 when we do side by side stuff at the Titan event in July. There is no point in evaluating grinders side by side if they are not seasoned correctly. The key learning point for others considering these grinders is find someone to season the burrs properly, otherwise you are just not getting the very best out of them from the start.


Yeah, the more choice the better (not for my wallet!) and I hope that the R120 does give the EK a run for its money, anything that takes coffee to another level is a good thing in my books. I've never seen the 100kgs for the Turks published but have heard it mentioned. I'd guess that things could only get better as coffee is tasting great at around 20kg total thanks to your good self.


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> I'm using callums dial. No idea what is translates too


If only there was an EK dial Converter somewhere in the Internet!

Lol


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> If only there was an EK dial Converter somewhere in the Internet!
> 
> Lol


Lol it keeps timing me out .when I try and get on it


----------



## Charliej

Xpenno said:


> The only difference between the R120 and the EK is the mountain of actual evidence to say why the EK is such a great grinder for coffee. When the R120 takes it's crown and we break the current theoretical extraction yeild, single dosing is the best it even has been, then I'll have one (maybe two) as well as a new re-enforced worktop for it to sit on


It was just some gentle poking of fun Spence, although some people refuse to contemplate spending as much as you did on set of burrs for their whole grinder. The question I have yet to see fully answered by any of the owners on the forum is IF it can do more traditional style and tasting coffee as well as it does the higher extraction shots and longer shots.


----------



## garydyke1

Charliej said:


> The question I have yet to see fully answered by any of the owners on the forum is IF it can do more traditional style and tasting coffee as well as it does the higher extraction shots and longer shots.


When you say traditional - you mean shorter shots?

I dont get what you mean by traditional tasting? - you mean less sweetness and clarity?


----------



## jeebsy

Could understand wanting the same sweetness and clarity in shorter shot - craft coffee seem to be able to manage exceptionally good 35g shots with their Turkish setup


----------



## garydyke1

Turks seem to be more suited to that for sure


----------



## jeebsy

They said pulling longer shots didn't leave much room in the cup for milk


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Lol it keeps timing me out .when I try and get on it


https://www.facebook.com/geekspresso/app_208195102528120

even using the direct link?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dfk41 said:


> Just makes me so pleased I do not want one!!


Yet................


----------



## jeebsy

It only works on desktop I think


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Charliej said:


> So when are all you guys changing your minds and buying Compak R120's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> must be about due any time now as some of you have actually had time to properly season your burrs and start on an extra set


In the interests of scientific endeavour, decided to order a custom R120 with burrs measured in centimetres rather than millimeters which is so last year. Going to buy up Brazil's 2015 crop to make sure I've got enough beans to season the custom burrs.


----------



## 4085

The Systemic Kid said:


> Yet................


Nope, never ever ever ever ever.........anything which makes me hand over that sort of money and then wants to re educate me on how to pull a traditional espresso some 56th wave, bohemian way is dead in the water!

I have a lever, because I want to pull traditional shots.....the EK looks and sounds absolutely horrible, but that of course, is just my humble opinion.

If ever I stoop to that level, Patrick, you can take me into Newcastle and I will climb into Fenwicks window, lie flat on the floor and they try to get up myself...!


----------



## garydyke1

Hilarious. lol


----------



## michaelg

The Systemic Kid said:


> In the interests of scientific endeavour, decided to order a custom R120 with burrs measured in centimetres rather than millimeters which is so last year. Going to buy up Brazil's 2015 crop to make sure I've got enough beans to season the custom burrs.


That's nothing. I just bought a disused windmill and have installed 2m diameter stone burrs. I bought up all of Latin America's 2015 crop in advance (and gazumped you on the Brazil crop). Unfortunately it takes 3 tons to dial in but I'm confident the results will be well worth the expense.


----------



## Mrboots2u

michaelg said:


> That's nothing. I just bought a disused windmill and have installed 2m diameter stone burrs. I bought up all of Latin America's 2015 crop in advance (and gazumped you on the Brazil crop). Unfortunately it takes 3 tons to dial in but I'm confident the results will be well worth the expense.


now that's actually funny









did you buy it from a Mr W Miller?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

dfk41 said:


> Nope, never ever ever ever ever.........anything which makes me hand over that sort of money and then wants to re educate me on how to pull a traditional espresso some 56th wave, bohemian way is dead in the water!
> 
> I have a lever, because I want to pull traditional shots.....the EK looks and sounds absolutely horrible, but that of course, is just my humble opinion.
> 
> If ever I stoop to that level, Patrick, you can take me into Newcastle and I will climb into Fenwicks window, lie flat on the floor and they try to get up myself...!


As I speak, I'm contacting Fenwick's Newcastle to book you a space in their Christmas window pageant. It will feature you as the Grinch complete with EK43 and Veloce. You will make endless espressos, flat white and caps to staff and public along with home made mince pies. If you're good, you might be allowed out at New Year.


----------



## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> It was just some gentle poking of fun Spence, although some people refuse to contemplate spending as much as you did on set of burrs for their whole grinder. The question I have yet to see fully answered by any of the owners on the forum is IF it can do more traditional style and tasting coffee as well as it does the higher extraction shots and longer shots.


I know mate, it's all about personal means and priorities, hobbies etc.. Some people spend thousands on a motor bike and they get many hours of enjoyment out of it, some on musical instruments, some on season tickets for their fav football team. I choose to spend it on coffee (and musical instruments) as I get many hours of enjoyment from trying to make that perfect cup. I don't judge people because they have a cheap grinder as it doesn't affect me in any way just as I don not judge someone who spends 30k on wedding, it's just money at the end of the day and it's what I work my ass of every day for.









RE: the shorter shots I've posted info about my experience with the Turk burrs and have made some great tasting "traditional" ratio shots with them. I do feel that this is probably down to them creating a higher level of fines that the coffee burrs but it's no biggie. What I have found is that even at the shorter ratios I'm getting more sweetness and higher intensity in the cup than with my Royal, is it better? That's for each potential owner to decide after trying some shots on one.

I've whacked the coffee burrs back in today for some further testing. If you fancy a couple of hours messing then get down to Brum and we'll get some brews going on it (once you're better obviously)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

michaelg said:


> That's nothing. I just bought a disused windmill and have installed 2m diameter stone burrs. I bought up all of Latin America's 2015 crop in advance (and gazumped you on the Brazil crop). Unfortunately it takes 3 tons to dial in but I'm confident the results will be well worth the expense.


What happens when the wind doesn't blow? You should ask Peter to make a custom Hausgrind with those mega burrs. Don't forget to ask for a red dial too just to set it off.


----------



## Xpenno

Oh no, now this threads taking a dive, we've been rumbled, let's initiate Operation 57th Wave and get the hell out of here!


----------



## Neill

Xpenno said:


> Oh no, now this threads taking a dive, we've been rumbled, let's initiate Operation 57th Wave and get the hell out of here!


Does that involve strapping all your collective ek's to a chassis and some wheels to make a ???horse power car.


----------



## Xpenno

Neill said:


> Does that involve strapping all your collective ek's to a chassis and some wheels to make a ???horse power car.


You should be in our gang, great idea







Our plan was to tie them to our ankles and use them to weigh us down to our underwater layer 57 fathoms underwater.


----------



## Neill

Xpenno said:


> You should be in our gang, great idea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our plan was to tie them to our ankles and use them to weigh us down to our underwater layer 57 fathoms underwater.


If someone can work out a way to fit ek burrs to my hg one I'll happily join.


----------



## michaelg

The Systemic Kid said:


> What happens when the wind doesn't blow? You should ask Peter to make a custom Hausgrind with those mega burrs. Don't forget to ask for a red dial too just to set it off.


You were in Edinburgh right? No shortage of wind! Sorry to drag this onto a wall phase again but my two collapsed garden walls are testament to our abundance of wind.

Once I have the burrs seasoned will have to have everyone round for coffee. I need the weight of all of your to stand on the plunger of my jumbo Aeropress.

Thankfully the Commonwealth pool is just down the road from me so can collect the coffee there. Hope you can overlook the chlorine tasting notes.


----------



## Neill

michaelg said:


> You were in Edinburgh right? No shortage of wind! Sorry to drag this onto a wall phase again but my two collapsed garden walls are testament to our abundance of wind.


Your walls weren't built by someone going by the name of Noah were they?


----------



## michaelg

Now that you mention it! One wall collapsed under weight of snow / hard frost when we had -12C and the other blew down this year. I don't plan on rebuilding it as want to move out ASAP but if Noah wants somewhere to practise he's more than welcome!


----------



## froggystyle

michaelg said:


> Now that you mention it! One wall collapsed under weight of snow / hard frost when we had -12C and the other blew down this year. I don't plan on rebuilding it as want to move out ASAP but if Noah wants somewhere to practise he's more than welcome!


Brave man!

13 Cats.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Christ is no thread safe....


----------



## ronsil

Please don't let this so very useful thread goto the 'Wall' - We've got two already


----------



## Mrboots2u

ronsil said:


> Please don't let this so very useful thread goto the 'Wall' - We've got two already


plus one on the above


----------



## garydyke1

for once moderation is appreciated


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Xpenno said:


> If only there was an EK dial Converter somewhere in the Internet!
> 
> Lol


How many different dials are there?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

urbanbumpkin said:


> How many different dials are there?


At least two.


----------



## coffeechap

the standard one, callums one, 3f one and the john gordon one.


----------



## jeebsy

John Gordon one hasn't made it in to the wild yet though?


----------



## coffeechap

Yes it has it is made in China or korea


----------



## garydyke1

Thought I would show the results of my funnel prototype , incorporating a lens hood ring.

Showing straight from grinder into basket through funnel and a little shake


----------



## garydyke1

you can see all the 'chaff' or most of it remains clinging onto the alu taped covered inside of the middle tube.

That was 17.96g sat in a 18g VST @ setting 2.0 (old dial)

20 seconds of fury produced 62g 'lungo' & was delicious. To give some comparision - keeping everything the same setting 1.5 (old dial) would produce 50g in 26 seconds. This coffee is needing a mega fine grind comparative to others recently


----------



## jeebsy

Used to get this on my Mazzer where it would sound like it was chirping but it wasn't....Think Spence said it could be a wee bit of bean stick somewhere making the noise. I'm reluctant to keep going in case it damages the burrs...does the final one sound like the legit zero?


----------



## garydyke1

You are not at real zero , trust me. At least 0.5mm to play with


----------



## jeebsy

Jings....this is going to be like Indiana Jones taking the leap of faith across that bridge.

Just re read that. Half a mm? Fine margins.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Plus one with Gary


----------



## jeebsy

Boots if this goes wrong I want your spare burrs


----------



## The Systemic Kid

If the burrs have been properly zeroed and then backed off 10 degrees, you can ignore that chirping.

I'm getting it intermittently on the Turks at a whole heap of settings - including coarsest.


----------



## garydyke1

If you have the burrs 'just' physically touching ie proper chirping, then turn the grinder off, tighten up the allen bolts, it will naturally move away from zero by a hairs width. Well on mine anyway, risk it if you dare ; )

Still confused why people are so near zero anyway


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> If the burrs have been properly zeroed and then backed off 10 degrees, you can ignore that chirping.
> 
> I'm getting it intermittently on the Turks at a whole heap of settings - including coarsest.


lol .....

you got the emperors new burrs then


----------



## garydyke1

An update on Turk v coffee would be nice


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> An update on Turk v coffee would be nice


And hulk versus thing also ....


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Still confused why people are so near zero anyway


Probably because they haven't properly zerod their burrs in the first place....











So this is a legit chirp? If so I've just gained about 20 degrees


----------



## garydyke1

sounds more like it!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> An update on Turk v coffee would be nice


Not put enough beans through and seem to be away a lot at the moment. Brilliant out of the box for pour over though.


----------



## Xpenno

The section of the burrs that touches together is flat. You'd have to mash them together pretty badly to cause real damage to them. If you watch the vids on malhlkoing vimeo page then there is one for swapping the burrs on an industrial grinder, he gives them a bit of grief. Also the compak vids show the guy going in pretty hard.


----------



## jeebsy

I've just got visions of chunks flying everywhere soon as they start to touch


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> I've just got visions of chunks flying everywhere soon as they start to touch


Switch the lights off jeebsy - if you see a nice spray of sparks - you're in trouble. If not, ignore the chirping - it's OK.


----------



## jeebsy

So hyped for the morning espresso now. Grinding half a number lower is going to be so exciting.


----------



## jeebsy

Preinfusion seems to make such a difference. Ground some Fany at 2 on the Irish dial, 10 secs pre infusion, pour then started almost as soon as the pump kicked in giving 35 out in 30 secs.

Did a couple of shots last night with the Longberry which needs a much finer grind - 10 secs preinfusion gave 60 out in 30, no PI gave over 80 out in about 28 secs and had to cut the shot as the cup was overflowing.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

With the Turkish burrs, getting a couple of drips as soon as the lever is pulled. Still giving it 5-6sec pre-infusion. Pours don't gush but aren't even yet. The pain of bedding in new burrs. On the plus side, espresso grind is anywhere from 4.5 - 7.00 on the Callum dial with darker roasts needing a coarser grind. Also finding that the sweet spot in terms of hitting the correct grind setting for any particular bean is incredibly tight. Half to one third click either side and it's either choking or too fast. That said, the shots are drinkable - not perfect but drinkable.


----------



## jeebsy

Has anyone else centered their burrs? Spence was talking about it earlier,, it's a new one to me though


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Has anyone else centered their burrs? Spence was talking about it earlier,, it's a new one to me though


Do you mean zeroing them, jeesby?


----------



## jeebsy

> I took extra care to centre the burrs on the pre-breaker. I used plastic wedges (it's 4 bits of plastic folder I cut up) between the edge of the burr and the 4 sweeper arms on the burr carrier. This meant that the burr could not move around and was as dead centre as possible. Previously when I took the front off mine and twisted by hand there was a slight wobble on the burr as it rotated. All I can say is that it seem to have made a difference.


Sure he won't mind me sharing that


----------



## garydyke1

coffee / seasoned / factory aligned

coffee / unseasoned / factory aligned

coffee / seasoned / self aligned

coffee / unseasoned / self aligned

turkish / seasoned / factory aligned

turkish / unseasoned / factory aligned

turkish / seasoned / self aligned

turkish / unseasoned / self aligned

There are loads of variations out there


----------



## jeebsy

Are you a self aligner Gary?


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> coffee / seasoned / factory aligned
> 
> coffee / unseasoned / factory aligned
> 
> coffee / seasoned / self aligned
> 
> coffee / unseasoned / self aligned
> 
> turkish / seasoned / factory aligned
> 
> turkish / unseasoned / factory aligned
> 
> turkish / seasoned / self aligned
> 
> turkish / unseasoned / self aligned
> 
> There are loads of variations out there


Ha have three to check the variables Gary, 25 kgs of coffee in the Ek is barely seasoned and I don't believe in the Turkish burr set so it is not there!


----------



## Xpenno

No probs mate. The burr that's inside the grinder can't really move that much at all one in situ and before you tighten the screws this gives me comfort that it is where it should be. The burr on the prebreaker can move and rotate by a couple of mm. In espresso grinding terms this is a big number. If the burrs don't sit perfectly on top of each other then it seems to me that the particle size could vary wildly throughout a rotation. I used the simple method described above to align my burrs much more accurately and I believe that the results in the cup are there to see. I have no real facts to back this up, your burrs may be aligned perfectly already, it's just one of the details that annoys me


----------



## jeebsy

Taking it apart and greasing the shaft is one of the weekend jobs so I'll check for a wobbly burr then too - cheers for elaborating


----------



## Dylan

jeebsy said:


> greasing the shaft is one of the weekend jobs


Very reserved of you Jeebsy.

I cant help having the humour of a 12 year old.


----------



## jeebsy

Any talk of greasing shafts is going to be a bit tongue in cheek


----------



## garydyke1

this is how you season an EK


----------



## Daren

garydyke1 said:


> this is how you season an EK


You HAVE to do a video of that!!!


----------



## dsc

Curious how people 'self align' their grinders even more curious, how they check that alignment


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Are you a self aligner Gary?


Not yet , but i know of one home user and one shop who say they've benefited by doing it


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Not yet , but i know of one home user and one shop who say they've benefited by doing it


Can you try and get Laura to take a clip if you do it.

I'm just too dumb to picture Spence's excellent description in my head


----------



## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> Can you try and get Laura to take a clip if you do it.
> 
> I'm just too dumb to picture Spence's excellent description in my head


I took mine apart for the first time last night, no wobble with the burr on the outer carrier. Or is it the gap between the dial and the bur carrier you need to shore up?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Playing around with baskets (yep, I do need to get out more). Finding the IMS baskets more forgiving than VSTs at the moment but the burrs need a lot more seasoning.


----------



## jeebsy

I found the shape of the IMS made it more likely to produce decent looking cones even if the pour initially looked a bit ropey - maybe hides mistakes more


----------



## Mrboots2u

What funnel are people. Using currently then...

Witnessed the funnel spin today..( tm Callum t )


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> What funnel are people. Using currently then...
> 
> Witnessed the funnel spin today..( tm Callum t )


I've made a couple of funnels from non stick souffle tins (please don't tell Mrs Systemic) but the one I've using all the time at the moments is a custom made sleeve - will post a pick or two later.


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> What funnel are people. Using currently then...
> 
> Witnessed the funnel spin today..( tm Callum t )


I'm using this one.

http://www.livsstil.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=14307

the opening fits nicely in a VST basket and it's minimal fuss to sort the ground coffee out once removed. The Kilner ones are a bit of a PITA for me.


----------



## jeebsy

Wasn't sold on the funnel when I used it but might give it another bash


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Wasn't sold on the funnel when I used it but might give it another bash


The one I linked or just in general?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Been using this for the last few weeks - works really well - no mess and quick.


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> The one I linked or just in general?


In general

13 funnels


----------



## jeebsy

Tried the funnel again this morning,the hole is a bit narrower than 58mm which makes a bit of a pain to use. Tempted to try one of these http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=330866529122&alt=web


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Tried the funnel again this morning,the hole is a bit narrower than 58mm which makes a bit of a pain to use. Tempted to try one of these http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=330866529122&alt=web


That looks pretty cool mate, might pick one up as well!


----------



## jeebsy

Looks quite similar to what TSK is using but 8 quid is a bit of a risk if it turns out to be no good though


----------



## charris

There is a specific funnel for the EK available here:

http://sensorylabproshop.com.au/collections/ek43/products/jam-funnel

I am sure most of you EK owners know about this. (While you are there please also buy the PergTamp as reccomended by Chrarlie).


----------



## The Systemic Kid

You might find 58mm is too wide. Checked my homemade one and it's 55mm in diameter so it can fit securely inside the baskets (IMS and VST) rather than sitting loosely on top. It is also cut along its length to create some give and allow it to adjust to straight and slightly tapered baskets.


----------



## jeebsy

The 58mm lens hood I've got has a groove which means it sits on the pf. Still liable to fall off if knocked etc though. Things with a smaller diameter mean the grounds pile up and you need a tap/ some sort if other distribution which is what I'm tying to avoid


----------



## The Systemic Kid

charris said:


> There is a specific funnel for the EK available here:
> 
> http://sensorylabproshop.com.au/collections/ek43/products/jam-funnel


Unless MP is having a specially designed jam funnel made (including initials and picture), I wonder if it is any different to the Kilner which has a slightly wider throat than most other jam funnels - still quite a bit short diameter-wise to the internal dimension of a filter basket. The Kilner is the best of the bunch but snags against the thwacker. Works better if the thwacker is removed but you lose that functionality which is why I went to my custom sleeve (non-MP endorsed but have applied for it) which cost pennies


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Unless MP is having a specially designed jam funnel made (including initials and picture), I wonder if it is any different to the Kilner which has a slightly wider throat than most other jam funnels - still quite a bit short diameter-wise to the internal dimension of a filter basket. The Kilner is the best of the bunch but snags against the thwacker. Works better if the thwacker is removed but you lose that functionality which is why I went to my custom sleeve (non-MP endorsed but have applied for it) which cost pennies


All I read was "specially designed jam funnel including Initials and picture "

I'm in , where do I buy one


----------



## jeebsy

I'm going to experiment with the yoghurt pot a bit more before going for that eBay one.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> All I read was "specially designed jam funnel including Initials and picture "
> 
> I'm in , where do I buy one


Check it out on Kickstarter


----------



## froggystyle

I picked up one of these for pouring roasted beans into bags, however over the weekend i have been using it to catch grinds into the PF.

Does a nice little job, as the bottom hole is only 37mm i tend to move it round as i lift to distribute the grinds round the pf.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271551272323


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Unless MP is having a specially designed jam funnel made (including initials and picture), I wonder if it is any different to the Kilner which has a slightly wider throat than most other jam funnels - still quite a bit short diameter-wise to the internal dimension of a filter basket. The Kilner is the best of the bunch but snags against the thwacker. Works better if the thwacker is removed but you lose that functionality which is why I went to my custom sleeve (non-MP endorsed but have applied for it) which cost pennies


The one in the link is superior to the Kilner IMHO as the mouth sits snugly inside the basket and goes about half way down to the bottom of the basket before it wedges itself in. It's much harder to get good distribution with the Kilner as the mouth is so much smaller than the basket, even with the advanced spin techniques. I'm not saying that it's not possible, I'm just saying that with my mods (internal schnoz and funnel) my distribution is pretty much bang on, little tap on the funnel, smooth with finger and tamp.

I have a plan to attack my funnel with a dremel to tweak it a little more and I also have a plan for keeping it in place. If I get chance tonight then I'll have a play and stick up some photos.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thanks Spence - worth a punt. Going to order one - any EKers want to join my order?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

MP funnel cost update - price delivered to UK is £23.00 for one. If there are one or two others, might bring the shipping cost down.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Just checked the website. Shipping costs are same for multiple order - so might be worth doing?


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Thanks Spence - worth a punt. Going to order one - any EKers want to join my order?


I can get Jill to pick them up from the shop and I can post out if it's easier? Might save a few bob.


----------



## ronsil

Can you put me down for one please.

Let me know payment details when you are ready.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Thanks Spence - worth a punt. Going to order one - any EKers want to join my order?


I think that the one I linked to is the same as the one for sale on sensory lab. I'll post a pic when I get home and you guys can decide if you're going to order from Aus.


----------



## jeebsy

If the mouth fits just inside the basket i'll take one


----------



## Xpenno

I'll take some pics later.


----------



## Geordie Boy

EK Seasoning continues tonight for me......

This is the 5th run and I'm not even half way through my stash.











There's no way I'm getting any sleep tonight, the house just smells of funky coffee!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Hysterical - what capacity basket are you using


----------



## Geordie Boy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Hysterical - what capacity basket are you using


5kg basmati rice container, almost a perfect fit for a full hopper


----------



## Charliej

Why not just fasten a bin bag round the exit chute?


----------



## Geordie Boy

Really don't want any possibility of a bag splitting with the speed this thing goes at


----------



## Charliej

Geordie Boy said:


> Really don't want any possibility of a bag splitting with the speed this thing goes at


Heavy duty bags or the garden waste versions?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Excellent Geordie Boy! this will explain the new dark hill that's appeared on the horizon in Warwickshire.


----------



## Geordie Boy

Charliej said:


> Heavy duty bags or the garden waste versions?


....or just keep doing it the way I am??????


----------



## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> Really don't want any possibility of a bag splitting with the speed this thing goes at


I used the sainsbury version of a brabantia bin liner, worked like a charm.


----------



## Geordie Boy

All done


----------



## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> All done


Good work!!! How many KGs?


----------



## Geordie Boy

20.1kg

That's around 25kg through mine now


----------



## Xpenno

Funnelage










Just sittin' on a 20g VST










One from the outside


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Think I'll give this one a go. Thanks Spence.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Think I'll give this one a go. Thanks Spence.


I think I'm going to fit a group gasket around the base of the funnel mouth to hold it firmly on the top of the basket I'll probably trim it down a bit as well with my dremel.

If anyone want's me to grab one and post it then I can just let me know?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Would like one please, Spence. Let me know cost inc postage. Thanks.


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Would like one please, Spence. Let me know cost inc postage. Thanks.


Jill will pop in and pick one up tomorrow if she gets chance. I think in store they are £6.50 and no VAT.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Can I have one Spence


----------



## Geordie Boy

I wonder if it's this, diameter is down as 5.5cm and 0.6mm stainless?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrew-James-Large-Preserves-Funnel/dp/B0076YBJ6M/ref=zg_bs_3579753031_10

£6 from Andrew James UK Ltd via Amazon

or £5.49 delivered from them direct

https://andrewjamesworldwide.com/UserControls/productIndividual.aspx?ProductID=187


----------



## JKK

Hello

Has anybody tried this one










50mm diameter base, and very contemporary in black !!

From Lakeland

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/3802/Easy-Fill-Jam-Funnel

Also reviews seem very positive:-

"I used this today for the first time and was thrilled that all of the chutney went in the jars,"









-JKK


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Thanks for that but 50mm is too loose in the portafilter.


----------



## Geordie Boy

That's a decent price for Lakeland! I've got one near me so could potentially pop in though they do tend to jump on you in there.

I'd love to see someone add a review that it's perfect for grinding from an EK into a portafilter, that'll confuse people


----------



## jeebsy

Spence, i'll take one please

JKK, think the one i've got is 50mm. It's a right pain to use.


----------



## Xpenno

I have a funnel fetish! I'll do a group shot in a sec









The one Geordie posted looks the same as mine in the photo, obviously that doesn't mean it's the same one but maybe they just re-badge for different brands. What do you guys want to do? Happy to pick up a job lot and post them out, up to you.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Get me one Spence please


----------



## Geordie Boy

charris said:


> There is a specific funnel for the EK available here:
> 
> http://sensorylabproshop.com.au/collections/ek43/products/jam-funnel
> 
> I am sure most of you EK owners know about this. (While you are there please also buy the PergTamp as reccomended by Chrarlie).


Just looks a bit like this one being sold at a higher price?

http://www.brandonindustries.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=333_89&products_id=2423&osCsid=d2dc75c2b5285ddc5e774bc785c6bee4


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Get me one Spence please


Yarp

Family photo, yes I'm this sad


----------



## Geordie Boy

Xpenno said:


> Yarp
> 
> Family photo, yes I'm this sad


Third from the right looks like a plant pot









Where are they from and what's the downside of each?


----------



## Geordie Boy

Patrick, have you done any trials with the HG catch pot? I'd imagine it would probably add in an extra stir step?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Impressive collection, Spence


----------



## Charliej

I guess it gives you something to do while you wait for your new machine Spence.


----------



## jeebsy

58mm camera lens hood would be great but some have steps inside that would catch grounds


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Impressive collection, Spence


Just don't ask to see my trigger activated flour sifter collection because that really is trajik!


----------



## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> I guess it gives you something to do while you wait for your new machine Spence.


Indeed! What's a man to do, oh yeah, more funnels.


----------



## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> Third from the right looks like a plant pot
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where are they from and what's the downside of each?


Yeah that's a 3d printed one from my Mazzer Royal Mod.

They range from car exhaust reducers to cocktail shaker lid (kindly donated to the cause by Charlie). There are no pros to most of them aside from the ones I've mentioned as that's the only one that really works for me. That one has a slight downside that it's easy to knock off with the thwacker if you get carried away. My fix for this is the E61 group gasket around the base to steady it up and the removal of some of the excess metal up top with a dremel.


----------



## Xpenno

Ok from right to left...

Kitchen Craft - eBay - Shite in every way

Tala - Livstil - best so far

Lakeland - Lakeland - exit too small can lead to poor distribution

Tala - Waitrose - Used to be good until I dishwashered it. Was a pain as you have to hold it though. In the basket it was like the mound you get from a mazzer e or similar

Homebrew - wasn't really built for this

Cocktail Shaker Lid - To small exit hole

Car Exhaust Reducer - eBay - Tried to fashion into a direct doser attachment for the EK, don;t bother it doesn't work, not even a little.

I'm sure I have a Kilner one as well somewhere.... Hmmmmm


----------



## Xpenno

Funnel, it's now! with added stabiliser! You can coffee too!










Looks like it will work perfectly. The stabiliser has dual functions

1. Stabilisation of the funnel

2. To raise the mouth of the funnel further out of the basket and thus will disturb the coffee less around the edges

Next project is to remove the handle and some of the unnecessary metal from the upper funnel, it will probably end up looking like shite but as long as it works I'll be happy.

Boom!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Did we get funnels too today btw...


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Did we get funnels too today btw...


Yarp, boxed up and ready to post out tomorrow









Last 3 in the shop.


----------



## CallumT

Damn, that group seal is an awesome idea; less messing around I hope it doesn't make anything unstable.


----------



## jeebsy

Anyone got a spare gasket kicking about....


----------



## Xpenno

CallumT said:


> Damn, that group seal is an awesome idea; less messing around I hope it doesn't make anything unstable.


Unstable? like the funnel falling off? If so that's what it prevents







with the gasket its solid. Hard to believe that I came up with an idea that works.


----------



## CallumT

Might give it a try tomorrow, will report back when I have my espresso stuff back from Rave -_- I hate leaving stuff behind after events, have made it a frustrating habit.


----------



## garydyke1

NS conical group gaskets I see there Spence ; ). We do them for a couple of quid


----------



## jeebsy

Any way to get one without paying 4 quid odd postage?


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Any way to get one without paying 4 quid odd postage?


If Gary can sort the gasket and you don't mind waiting a few days then I could pop it in with the funnel.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> If Gary can sort the gasket and you don't mind waiting a few days then I could pop it in with the funnel.


Sounds good.......


----------



## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> If Gary can sort the gasket and you don't mind waiting a few days then I could pop it in with the funnel.


That would be tickety boo


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Sounds good.......


Never said anything about you getting one Boots!!!


----------



## ronsil

Can I change my mind Spence - Having now seen it, I like the idea of the funnel with the gasket.

Happy to wait can I join in to buy?


----------



## Xpenno

ronsil said:


> Can I change my mind Spence - Having now seen it, I like the idea of the funnel with the gasket.
> 
> Happy to wait can I join in to buy?


Hi Ron,

the guys had the last three in the shop here in Brum. They are still showing up as being in stock on their main website if you want to order direct.

http://www.livsstil.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=14307

You can grab one from this link above.

Cheers

Spence


----------



## Xpenno

Can Martin/Patrick confirm whether or not you want me to hold off on shipping?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Can Martin/Patrick confirm whether or not you want me to hold off on shipping?


It it's ok then I'd like the gasket thing too please

I will pay

And reward you with coffee for your troubles also

Cheers


----------



## garydyke1

Guys let know how many gaskets you want in total , then pay Spence, he can pay me and i can pay boss man


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Would like a gasket please, Gary.


----------



## Xpenno

Cool, I'll hold off on the shipping then.

Ron, if you want a gasket then I'm happy to collect and post one to you as well, it's just the funnel that I can't get.


----------



## jeebsy

Gasket for me please


----------



## Geordie Boy

Gasket for me also please


----------



## JKK

If possible a gasket for me too . . .

-JKK


----------



## garydyke1

someone tally the total and let spence know, I don't have time to keep checking the forum


----------



## Xpenno

Ok, for those who I'm already sending funnels I'll get Gary to sort gaskets and I'll send them together so you're all sorted.

To everyone else, these are in no way specific, I tried with a standard E61 previously and that works just fine. That said if you still want me to collect them from Gary and ship then to you at my cost price then let me know before 2pm tomorrow via PM and I will update Gary.

I would factor in £1-£2 for delivery it might be less but I would not expect it to be any more. Once everyone has confirmed then I'll collect the gaskets, get an accurate price for shipping and PM you my Paypal info, once paid up I'll ship them out.

If this in anyway starts to contravene the forum group buy rules (which hopefully it doesn't) then it's going to be easier to order them yourselves.

Cheers

Spence


----------



## garydyke1

Sure e61 will do the job. These conical NS ones are tapered at the bottom for a sexy snug fit


----------



## ronsil

Xpenno said:


> Ron, if you want a gasket then I'm happy to collect and post one to you as well, it's just the funnel that I can't get.


Thanks for that Spence but only just got back. I had to ring BB today whilst out so I ordered a gasket from them whilst on phone.

Love your idea & I already have a funnel to which I plan to attach the gasket to enable it to fit the basket.


----------



## JKK

Hello. EK First day tips please.

Posted in the Groups, but maybe better here.

So finally succumbed to the industrial grinder fever.

But not finding it too easy yet.

I am using Expobar DB, at ( in theory ) 94c, VST18 with 18.5g coffee.

Finding it hard to get a slow enough flow.

The Expo barely gets past pre infusion before 20g in the cup !

The dial ( original ) is set to about 1.3 ( 1.0 is chirping, just )

Beans ( not ideal, but taste good at Bulldog ) are Sqrmile Decaf.

Taste is over extracted, burnt acrid, thin.

On the Mignon the taste is deeper, fruitier, and nice.

Other beans tried:

- Workshop Cult of Dome, better but not

yet earth shattering.

- Hasbean Kebel Aricha very nice, but very thin.

Any tips appreciated.

Early days . . .

Cheers

-jkk


----------



## Mrboots2u

Nutate reasonably hard

Pull longer extractions 18 into 45 plus

Id probably go 20g to for now

It won't pour or extract in the same time frame as a normal grinder.

Don't aim for 1.6 ratio

Or trying to achieve same body its less mouth feel cleaner sweeter taste when hits right

Wait for jeebsy to come on too...

Brewtus plus ek....


----------



## Xpenno

Doesn't sound like you are actually at zero. What do you mean when you say pre infusion? At what times into the shot is it gushing?


----------



## JKK

Hello

Thanks for the replies chaps.

Bootz - Thnx will try up dosing

Xpenno - It's about 0.3 marks away from chirping ( chirping on 1.0 grind on 1.3 ) About the pre infusion - it starts to

pour before the pump ramps up to (9 ish bar). So the pressure never gets up to 9.

PS Original dial

Cheers

-jkk


----------



## jeebsy

I'm using the same setup. With preinfusion I can pull almost normal shots at 1.5ish with most beans. 8-10 secs preinfusion and its about 25 secs for 25-35 ml. Shots probably taste best about 60 out though


----------



## jeebsy

Search this thread for chirp, I posted a couple of videos


----------



## JKK

jeebsy said:


> I'm using the same setup. With preinfusion I can pull almost normal shots at 1.5ish with most beans. 8-10 secs preinfusion and its about 25 secs for 25-35 ml. Shots probably taste best about 60 out though


Hello

Thanks for the reply.

What dial setting are you using on average ?

I have tried searching for chirp, but the only ref is the post you have just made.

dyou have a link for the vid ?

I have a mignon which runs just on the edge of chirp, just before metallic meshing noise

so I think I can recognise the sound.

it is not the bean debris flying about ringing noise that sometimes occurs.

It is definitely on the edge, the machine was set up for last weekends grind-athon

and the burrs have been zeroed a little tighter since then.

Cheers

-jkk


----------



## jeebsy

Dial setting 1.3-2 on the Irish dial depending on the bean depending and how much I want out. Generally shoot for 60 out but have been playing with shorter shots recently. Some people seems to be able to grind at a higher number than me and still get comparable extractions

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?14851-Goes-All-The-Way-Up-To-11&p=191306&highlight=chirp#post191306


----------



## jeebsy

Post in moderation


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Post in moderation


Should be visible now.


----------



## garydyke1

How many kilos through burrs ?


----------



## jeebsy

If it was one from the grind off CC probably had 50+ through it


----------



## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> If it was one from the grind off CC probably had 50+ through it


One had 50 plus

One has about 10

One was in a box on the floor unopened .....


----------



## JKK

Hello

Thanks for the reply Jeebsy [ and a forum search magic, how do you do that . . ? ]

So my 1.3 is about right, ever higher does, or smaller basket.

RE seasoning. According to Mr CC or Andy as I called him ! it had about 10kg through.

A couple more since, so still a way to go.

Sorry if it has been asked before, but if I want a traditional size espresso

such as 30g ish, would it be better to use smaller basker [ IMS 14-18] and does around 16g ?

Cheers

-jkk


----------



## Mrboots2u

What do you mean by traditional espresso ..size ? Mouthfeel ?


----------



## Geordie Boy

Wasn't the 50kg one at the grind off Rave's EK?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Geordie Boy said:


> Wasn't the 50kg one at the grind off Rave's EK?


Two ...

One with 50 in one with 10.....


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> What do you mean by traditional espresso ..size ? Mouthfeel ?


Hello

The *size*, well weight.

I understand the mouthfeel is different than from standard grinders.

Do you think the low amount through the grinder [12kg] has an impact

on the quick flow problem, doctor !

-jkk


----------



## Geordie Boy

Mrboots2u said:


> Two ...
> 
> One with 50 in one with 10.....


The 2 EK's in use both belonged to Rave then?


----------



## Mrboots2u

JKK said:


> Hello
> 
> The *size*, well weight.
> 
> I understand the mouthfeel is different than from standard grinders.
> 
> -jkk


Right

IMO

Extracts better at a minimum of a 1:2 ratio

Ive not tried it as small doses to achieve 30g out

I've always been around 18-20g

Size of drink doesn't concern me greatly


----------



## coffeechap

Geordie Boy said:


> The 2 EK's in use both belonged to Rave then?


Nope the 50kg was raves the other two were mine


----------



## Mrboots2u

Try going 18 into 36 as a compromise ......


----------



## garydyke1

Technique is HUGE part of success with the EK.

Video please of shot prep


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Technique is HUGE part of success with the EK.
> 
> Video please of shot prep


Let see yours then


----------



## dsc

I thought you can be as sloppy as it goes with the EK.


----------



## JKK

garydyke1 said:


> Technique is HUGE part of success with the EK.
> 
> Video please of shot prep


Mmmm, too shy sorry.

But I am pretty careful with the prep, I had to be using a

a mignon clump machine for the last year.

Although didn't Mr Systematic make some posts a while ago

where he demoed sloppy technique with tastey results.

-jkk


----------



## Mrboots2u

Are you stirring grids then ( inference of mignion technique )

I wouldn't deem this needed with the ek


----------



## garydyke1

JKK said:


> Mmmm, too shy sorry.
> 
> But I am pretty careful with the prep, I had to be using a
> 
> a mignon clump machine for the last year.
> 
> Although didn't Mr Systematic make some posts a while ago
> 
> where he demoed sloppy technique with tastey results.
> 
> -jkk


With a lever machine = declining pressure profile


----------



## garydyke1

dsc said:


> I thought you can be as sloppy as it goes with the EK.


not in my experience


----------



## dsc

Well there you go then Gary, I'm sure I've read somewhere that shots were good even though everything was super sloppy.


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you stirring grids then ( inference of mignion technique )
> 
> I wouldn't deem this needed with the ek


Yes, sorry a hangover, but does help distribute.

Could that be a problem ?

Declining pressure profile is not so easy with an Expobar - screwdriver, no drip tray, and luck !

-jkk


----------



## Mrboots2u

Yes stop stirring


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> Yes stop stirring


Yes Sir !!

Will report back in the AM

-jkk


----------



## Mrboots2u

What are you grinding into ?

What basket are you using ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

JKK said:


> Yes Sir !!
> 
> Will report back in the AM
> 
> -jkk


Sorry tired .....

Please stop stirring . Mignion is clumpy and your breaking up clumps and redistributing fines

Strutting isn't needed with the ek or even stirring ,strut if you want









Do you have a funnel


----------



## jeebsy

You said preinfusion but if you're changing pressure with a screwdriver that would suggest the tank machine...what do you have?


----------



## Charliej

Mrboots2u said:


> Sorry tired .....
> 
> Please stop stirring . Mignion is clumpy and your breaking up clumps and redistributing fines
> 
> Strutting isn't needed with the ek or even stirring ,strut if you want
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a funnel


Would the strutting be in a Mick Jagger or a Stephen Tyler type fashion?


----------



## Mrboots2u

I'm sure there is an official perger inspired strutt......


----------



## jeebsy

Inspired by the PM I woke up to from Boots about mashing the nutation, here's:

IMM Finca San Sebastian

20g

Ground at 1.5 on the 3FE dial

3 robust rotations then a harder than normal tamp (-around 20lbs)

Don't know how useful this is as haven't tried it as espresso before but here's the pour. Usual early morning sleepy forget to turn the timer on issue but you can see what goes on. Went on a bit long I think!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Take no credit for the mashing nutation ....

Just a prep technique I witnesses Callum using on Sunday ...

and passed onto you


----------



## jeebsy

I take back my comments about having to go almost 0. Did the same shot at 2 and it was still slightly long (35 secs) but got about 40 out. That shot wasn't a knockout in the mouth but was so nice after, really peachy. More playing about required as ever.


----------



## JKK

Hello

It is the Expo DB VBE pump, not a rotary.

The manual pressure profiling with screwdriver was just a jest, sorry.

Thanks for the vid.

I notice your temp is 92, is that offset tested to 92 at the brew head ?

-jkk


----------



## jeebsy

thought you were joking but it just raised a question. Are you plumbed in? My offset isn't tested no, once the equipment is available I will do it though.


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> What are you grinding into ?
> 
> What basket are you using ?


Ceramic camping mug !!

Funnelled into VST 18g basket

-jkk


----------



## jeebsy

Mine has started making a weird noise about every one time in ten I start it up. Only began doing it after I took it apart so assume it's my fault


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Can you put up a clip, jeebsy?


----------



## jeebsy

I'll need wait till the next time it does it. Usually always get scared and switch it off straight away but goes back to normal on next start up


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> I'll need wait till the next time it does it. Usually always get scared and switch it off straight away but goes back to normal on next start up


Every one I have used does it once in a while, on then off seems to solve it or throw 5g coffee in and it stops.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Does turning the adjustment dial back and forth change the noise in any way?


----------



## jeebsy

Usually panic too much and just switch it off


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Every one I have used does it once in a while, on then off seems to solve it or throw 5g coffee in and it stops.


It didn't do it before I took the burr out last week


----------



## JKK

Hello

Morning update.

SQMile Decaf 20g in 40g out, dial set to 1.0, *no stirring *- better flow, but tasted over extracted and rather meh !

Workshop Cult of Done 18.5g in 38g out, dial set to 1.0, *no stirring* - good flow, smelt nice, taste not bad

So solved the flow rate, but taste was not good, especially on decaf.

I shall try Workshop decaf later today.

-jkk


----------



## jeebsy

Decaf can be a bit weird as espresso imo. What dial are you using? Standard?


----------



## Mrboots2u

JKK where are you based?


----------



## garydyke1

JKK said:


> SQMile Decaf 20g in 40g out, dial set to 1.0, *no stirring *- better flow, but tasted over extracted and rather meh !


Try 30 out

Try 50 out

do either taste better than 40 out?


----------



## JKK

jeebsy said:


> Decaf can be a bit weird as espresso imo. What dial are you using? Standard?


Hello

Standard Dial

It is SQRMILE espresso, useful so I can nip down to Bulldog Edition

and check how it is supposed to taste on their EK43.

Mr Boots - I am in London.

Mr **** - thanks I will try out a few sizes of brew tomorrow.

-jkk


----------



## charris

jeebsy said:


> Decaf can be a bit weird as espresso imo. What dial are you using? Standard?


Why though? I think I would always like to have a decaf blend/SO available at home for PM drinking. Especially after dinner at 9pm a decaf espresso is very nice.


----------



## jeebsy

The decafs i've had from rave and has been have been pleasant enough, but there was something slightly awry about them. Like non alcoholic lager.


----------



## jeebsy

JKK said:


> Hello
> 
> Standard Dial
> 
> It is SQRMILE espresso, useful so I can nip down to Bulldog Edition
> 
> and check how it is supposed to taste on their EK43.
> 
> Mr Boots - I am in London.
> 
> Mr **** - thanks I will try out a few sizes of brew tomorrow.
> 
> -jkk


Craft coffee on Sclater Street (just round from Bulldog) have an EK too but with Turkish burrs. I LOVE their coffee.


----------



## JKK

Hello

Workshop's decaf is excellent, as is also usually the SQMile one. ( both are espresso blends )

But they are harder to brew, have to grind finer than non-decaf for same flow rate on espresso.

-jkk


----------



## JKK

jeebsy said:


> Craft coffee on Sclater Street (just round from Bulldog) have an EK too but with Turkish burrs. I LOVE their coffee.


Hello

Yes they are really nice.

In other news check out the fancy pants *CUTDOWN EK43* in bulldog . . .

will take my camera next time for a picture.

-jkk


----------



## Geordie Boy

They've modded it so it uses the base of a Santos grinder


----------



## JKK

Geordie Boy said:


> They've modded it so it uses the base of a Santos grinder


Hello

I not so sure, it does not look like the famous *John Gordon mod EK43*

*
*although it did have a SquareMile dragon (?) on it.

Will go and have another look tomorrow.

-jkk


----------



## Geordie Boy

We want photos


----------



## Geordie Boy

Picked up a plastic funnel from Lakeland today and gives a really good fit. Much, much more stable than the Kilner funnel I was using, there's almost no wobble with this one at all. Price is £4.99.

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/18901/2-in-1-Prep-Funnel


----------



## jeebsy

That looks like what Gary uses. I've been using a camera lens hood again last few days and it makes a terrible mess










That's since yesterday


----------



## JKK

Geordie Boy said:


> We want photos


Hello.

Yes, indeed you were right, it is a Santos style base.

What happens to all those orphan Santos grinders ?

Sorry not great photo, a bit sheepish taking pictures of grinders . . .









-jkk


----------



## garydyke1

Geordie Boy said:


> Picked up a plastic funnel from Lakeland today and gives a really good fit. Much, much more stable than the Kilner funnel I was using, there's almost no wobble with this one at all. Price is £4.99.
> 
> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/18901/2-in-1-Prep-Funnel


Exactly what I have , except on a section of an elmlea tub attached to a lens hood


----------



## Mrboots2u

Stalez time again....


----------



## JKK

Hello

Newbie update !

Bought a IMS 14-18 basket [hate the ridges], previously using 18-22 IMS basket.

It seems to help a bit, with this I can nearly get a decent flow rate using 18g dose, still a bit fast

especially on decaf [Workshop]

Anything less than 18g, and it starts to flow before full pressure on the EXPO DB.

Cannot grind any finer.

The grinder is really set as fine as possible, grinding on the edge of chirp . . .

Cannot put any more coffee into basket, it's so fluffy it doesnt fit !

Still only about 12kg the beast through so far.

Any thoughts welcome . . .

Cheers

-jKK


----------



## garydyke1

JKK said:


> Hello
> 
> Newbie update !
> 
> Bought a IMS 14-18 basket [hate the ridges], previously using 18-22 IMS basket.
> 
> It seems to help a bit, with this I can nearly get a decent flow rate using 18g dose, still a bit fast
> 
> especially on decaf [Workshop]
> 
> Anything less than 18g, and it starts to flow before full pressure on the EXPO DB.
> 
> Cannot grind any finer.
> 
> The grinder is really set as fine as possible, grinding on the edge of chirp . . .
> 
> Cannot put any more coffee into basket, it's so fluffy it doesnt fit !
> 
> Still only about 12kg the beast through so far.
> 
> Any thoughts welcome . . .
> 
> Cheers
> 
> -jKK


Never got on with IMS + EK to be honest


----------



## garydyke1

To be blunt , your grinder sounds faulty , or your shot prep is horrific


----------



## Mrboots2u

I may be wrong but I think your trying to make your espresso pour like a traditional grinder , ek varies a little .will be faster especially on a pump machine

Shots will tend to run longer to hit tasty yield


----------



## coffeechap

reset the burrs and rezero the grinder, are you nutating as this helps a lot with the coffee burrs, the expo will struggle a little as it is constant pressure from a vibe pump.


----------



## garydyke1

If I set the Sage to mimic an expo then the 'zero point' on the EK pretty much chokes the machine, nothing for 20 seconds.. then explosive gush, about 50g yield in about 50 seconds . centre of puck completely dry, i.e. water found path of least resistance around the outsides .


----------



## garydyke1

450 euro extra for carbon fibre finish


----------



## garydyke1

Jeebsy is this the noise?


----------



## coffeechap

how is jeepbsy getting on with his expo and the ek? as when i used it with the rocket (as Spence will attest) it gushed out ridiculously, yet on the L1 nice even pour


----------



## Xpenno

coffeechap said:


> how is jeepbsy getting on with his expo and the ek? as when i used it with the rocket (as Spence will attest) it gushed out ridiculously, yet on the L1 nice even pour


Very true, made a complete mess with the Rocket, was hard to make a bad looking pour on the L1, even with me at the helm.... Was fine on my Verona (rotary) though. 2-3 on 3fe dial, first drips 8-10 seconds and then a pretty controlled pour.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

JKK - when you say your burrs are chirping - have you reset the burrs yourself? When I got my EK back in February, I had a noise that sounded like burr chirp at or near finest setting. Anxious not to damage the burrs, I reset them myself to be absolutely sure I could go really fine without burr contact. I cleaned the internals meticulously before reassembling and resetting. The ghost chirping noise didn't re-occur at first so I could go down to zero with no noise. After a few shots were put through the grinder, the ghost chirping noise re-appeared but I knew it wasn't burr contact so I could go really fine if needed. That said, I only went down as far as 1.5 on the Callum custom dial which goes out to 17 with 1.0 being zero. For darker roasts, setting would be 2.0 or above.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Gone back to VSTs following discussion with Martin who reported on Callum's work at the Rave grind off. Martin dubbed Callum's technique 'the mash'. Martin said he delivered consistent shot after shot on the day using the EK with the LI. I'm now nutating pretty hard with a corresponding hard tamp and getting pretty consistent pulls from a VST basket - not as pretty in the pour as the IMS but definitely better extraction yield. Pour aren't yet perfect as the burrs need a lot more seasoning but no gushers.


----------



## coffeechap

I prefer the callum crush, I think the coffee burr set needs a much better technique, but once mastered gives exceptional results


----------



## JKK

Hello

Thanks for the replies chaps.

Garydyke - I have a VST 18 basket, but it is not better in terms of flow than the IMS.

Shot prep I assure you is not horrific:-

Grind into funnel in basket, tap gently to get all grind into basket.

North-south-east west thingy to get all grinds even across basket.

Tamp pretty hard, nutate, then a light polish rotating tamp.

MrBoots - Understood, but on the decaf beans the start to pour even before the

E61 pre-infusion is up, when it's around 3bar !

Mr C Chap - Have rezeroed by the instructions, undo alen screw, turn centre bolt to

chirp back off and tighten allen.

Is there another aspect to this I have missed.

Nutating, yes indead !

Sys Kid - Thanks. By reset you mean the allen key routine above ?

It was originally set up by Mr C Chap for the Grind-athon, but as I had no

luck with it I have cleaned the burrs and rezeroed it with the above method

without much difference.

The sound is not the ringing noise you get from bean debris contact, it is definately

more like a mashing scraping sound.

PS The only other thought I have had is that my Expo is running at some crazy high

pressure, although I kind of doubt it.

The gauge reads around 9bar on shot pull.

Also I tested it with a bag of Red Brick ground on Bulldog's EK a while ago, it is was

way to fine for my Expo, so I am pretty sure the pressure is fine.

Cheers

-JKK


----------



## Mrboots2u

Not sure decaf is the way to go

Nutate with pressure then tamp then polish


----------



## garydyke1

I would remove this ''North-south-east west thingy to get all grinds even across basket.''

No need, a simple shake, then single downwards tap is the way forward, I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice this : -

''Only use VST baskets. This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn't even be using another basket because they're all terrible. Without exception.

If your grinds are not perfectly evenly distributed in the basket, you're not letting the Pergtamp do its job. Your un-tamped bed of coffee grinds should look like a putting green before you even think about tamping. No holes, divets or mounds - just a perfectly flat bed of coffee with an even density. This should be the case for every single espresso you make. *I prefer to use the 'portafilter tapping' method of distribution. I find it to be far superior to 'Stockflething', dosing tools and any manual movement of the grinds*.''


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> Not sure decaf is the way to go
> 
> Nutate with pressure then tamp then polish


Yes, well unfortunately Decaf is a fact of life for some . . .

Tastes great at Bulldog, and also shot runs fine from a Mignon Grinder.

Overdosing seems to be the only option left.

But even with normal beans [Workshop Cult, Hasbean La Fanny]

presumably I shouldnt have to be at 1.0 for a normal pour, should I ?

Garydyke - Indead. Before I did just tap'n'shake, but without any luck on flow speed

I have tried the NSEW voodoo - I am not fan, just out of desparation really.

Cheers

-JKK


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> I would remove this ''North-south-east west thingy to get all grinds even across basket.''
> 
> No need, a simple shake, then single downwards tap is the way forward, I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice this : -
> 
> ''Only use VST baskets. This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn't even be using another basket because they're all terrible. Without exception.
> 
> If your grinds are not perfectly evenly distributed in the basket, you're not letting the Pergtamp do its job. Your un-tamped bed of coffee grinds should look like a putting green before you even think about tamping. No holes, divets or mounds - just a perfectly flat bed of coffee with an even density. This should be the case for every single espresso you make. *I prefer to use the 'portafilter tapping' method of distribution. I find it to be far superior to 'Stockflething', dosing tools and any manual movement of the grinds*.''


Need clip of said prep


----------



## Mrboots2u

Bulldog is Turkish burrs ?


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> Bulldog is Turkish burrs ?


Before they hacked the machined, it was an EKT, so yes.

Shot prep clip, from the "Perger" ? or my humble attempt ?

-JKK


----------



## Mrboots2u

From you and Gary


----------



## Charliej

Julio, are you expecting your pours to run exactly the same way as the ones from your Mignon? Because from the limited times I've used an EK and from listening to CC on a pump machine mostly the pours won't run like the ones from a more conventional grinder.


----------



## coffeechap

turkish burrs grind a hell of a lot finer than the coffee burr set........


----------



## JKK

Charliej said:


> Julio, are you expecting your pours to run exactly the same way as the ones from your Mignon? Because from the limited times I've used an EK and from listening to CC on a pump machine mostly the pours won't run like the ones from a more conventional grinder.


Julio ?

No I am not expecting them to run the same as the Mignon.

But I am expecting to not have to dose 20g in an 18g basket to

stop the pour from flowing during preinfusion, on the finest possible

setting.

Coffe Chap - yes Turkish are finer, but presumably everyone here apart from SysKid

is using Coffee Burrs without problem.

Or do I need to use a lever machine . . .

Cheers

-JKK [not currently Julio]


----------



## Charliej

JKK said:


> Julio ?
> 
> No I am not expecting them to run the same as the Mignon.
> 
> But I am expecting to not have to dose 20g in an 18g basket to
> 
> stop the pour from flowing during preinfusion, on the finest possible
> 
> setting.
> 
> Coffe Chap - yes Turkish are finer, but presumably everyone here apart from SysKid
> 
> is using Coffee Burrs without problem.
> 
> Or do I need to use a lever machine . . .
> 
> Cheers
> 
> -JKK [not currently Julio]


Sorry got you mixed up with someone else.


----------



## garydyke1

JKK said:


> Julio ?
> 
> No I am not expecting them to run the same as the Mignon.
> 
> But I am expecting to not have to dose 20g in an 18g basket to
> 
> stop the pour from flowing during preinfusion, on the finest possible
> 
> setting.
> 
> Coffe Chap - yes Turkish are finer, but presumably everyone here apart from SysKid
> 
> is using Coffee Burrs without problem.
> 
> Or do I need to use a lever machine . . .
> 
> Cheers
> 
> -JKK [not currently Julio]


Problem with grinder , or with prep, I stand by this.


----------



## coffeechap

i am coming into the smoke soon with l1 so can test it on that


----------



## JKK

garydyke1 said:


> Problem with grinder , or with prep, I stand by this.


Well I am inclined to think it is the grinder not grinding fine enough.

Because with some beans [Workshop Cult, and Hasbeann various]

I can get a good pour and great tasting shot. Dial set to 1.0 !

But with others [sQM Decaf, Workshop Decaf] I cant get the

grind fine enough for a normal pour [see prev post regarding early pour].

-JKK


----------



## JKK

coffeechap said:


> i am coming into the smoke soon with l1 so can test it on that


Hey Mr C that would be very cool, thankyou.

But I am off to Japan for a few weeks on Sunday.

Can we try and meet up when I am back ?

Cheers

-JKK


----------



## coffeechap

JKK said:


> Hey Mr C that would be very cool, thankyou.
> 
> But I am off to Japan for a few weeks on Sunday.
> 
> Can we try and meet up when I am back ?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> -JKK


of course.........


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> Jeebsy is this the noise?


Not quite as intense of that but it's similar and goes away after a few seconds usually or if you turn it off and on again



coffeechap said:


> how is jeepbsy getting on with his expo and the ek? as when i used it with the rocket (as Spence will attest) it gushed out ridiculously, yet on the L1 nice even pour


At first I was tamping light and having to go to almost 0 on some beans to get 60 out in 20 secs but since doing the Mash I can grind at 2 on the Irish dial and get good results (depending on the beans - Uncle Funka ran a bit slow at 2 tonight). The do still gush a bit though, even with the spouts on you can tell something funky is happening.


----------



## JKK

jeebsy said:


> At first I was tamping light and having to go to almost 0 on some beans to get 60 out in 20 secs but since doing the Mash I can grind at 2 on the Irish dial and get good results (depending on the beans - Uncle Funka ran a bit slow at 2 tonight). The do still gush a bit though, even with the spouts on you can tell something funky is happening.


Hello

Could you or someone describe the famous "Mash" for me.

Perhaps Mashing could be answer . . .

Cheers

-JKK


----------



## jeebsy

I'll do a video in the morning.

Maybe the inventor of the mash could do one too for comparison


----------



## garydyke1

JKK said:


> Well I am inclined to think it is the grinder not grinding fine enough.
> 
> Because with some beans [Workshop Cult, and Hasbeann various]
> 
> I can get a good pour and great tasting shot. Dial set to 1.0 !
> 
> But with others [sQM Decaf, Workshop Decaf] I cant get the
> 
> grind fine enough for a normal pour [see prev post regarding early pour].
> 
> -JKK


Decaf is not an ideal test , tricky at the best of times


----------



## jeebsy

Did they ever find out what the noise in that clip was Gary?


----------



## garydyke1

I have an open question with the horses mouth and am awaiting an email. I have a feeling its due to something not being sufficiently lubricated


----------



## jeebsy

Mine seems to have stopped doing it. Never did it before - took it apart to see if burrs were wobbly - started doing it. Took it apart again, put it back together, now it's fine.


----------



## garydyke1

The EK I have now is definitely grinding 'differently' . Sounds different, Faster, less static/spray, barely need a funnel. No need for seasoning like last time. weird.

The grinder we use with the Marco batcher brewer http://www.mahlkoenig.de/produkte/FCG-60-Filter-Coffee-Grinder.html

It has a rubber ''nozzle'' like what you get on the end of a piping bag for a star shaped icing, in the grind path - perfect distribution! could be added to an ek perhaps


----------



## ronsil

So - they are grinding differently. Interesting

Maybe that's why I've never seen the need to go much below 2.0 on my Irish dial


----------



## jeebsy

44 out in 35 secs. Excuse the aggressive hip hop and excessive pissing about with the grounds but that's because of reading Matt Perger's putting green analogy last night.

After a couple of days with the jam funnel and my own makeshift funnel I think the cocktail shaker is still the easiest way to go.


----------



## garydyke1

I decided to 'recalibrate' the burrs on the new EK, i.e. get them chirping.

set the grind to absolute zero. 20g in , 14g came out.....

put another 6g in ......2g came out....

put another 5g in .....4g came out.......

prepped basket and pulled the shot....

65 seconds later the first drip (of oil) hit the cup, 20 seconds later I bottled it and killed the shot.

20g in ....5g of 'coffee oil' in 85 seconds.

the puck was fully saturated , however it was jet black and soggy.

I then changed the dial to 3 on the 3fe dial (2 ish old dial). 20g in ......24g came out!

Grind at zero is not only choking the machine more efficiently than the royal could, but is physically clogging the grinder itself! coffee bean flour.

Several shots later at around 3-3.2 on the 3fe dial and I'm getting 20g in and 19.5-20g out time after time.

I never want to go back to zero again, it scares me


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


>


shaking and tapping , not touching with fingers


----------



## Mrboots2u

Show us how Gary


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> I decided to 'recalibrate' the burrs on the new EK, i.e. get them chirping.
> 
> set the grind to absolute zero. 20g in , 14g came out.....
> 
> put another 6g in ......2g came out....
> 
> put another 5g in .....4g came out.......
> 
> prepped basket and pulled the shot....
> 
> 65 seconds later the first drip (of oil) hit the cup, 20 seconds later I bottled it and killed the shot.
> 
> 20g in ....5g of 'coffee oil' in 85 seconds.
> 
> the puck was fully saturated , however it was jet black and soggy.
> 
> I then changed the dial to 3 on the 3fe dial (2 ish old dial). 20g in ......24g came out!
> 
> Grind at zero is not only choking the machine more efficiently than the royal could, but is physically clogging the grinder itself! coffee bean flour.
> 
> Several shots later at around 3-3.2 on the 3fe dial and I'm getting 20g in and 19.5-20g out time after time.
> 
> I never want to go back to zero again, it scares me


Sounds like you got a goodun


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> I decided to 'recalibrate' the burrs on the new EK, i.e. get them chirping.
> 
> set the grind to absolute zero. 20g in , 14g came out.....
> 
> put another 6g in ......2g came out....
> 
> put another 5g in .....4g came out.......
> 
> prepped basket and pulled the shot....
> 
> 65 seconds later the first drip (of oil) hit the cup, 20 seconds later I bottled it and killed the shot.
> 
> 20g in ....5g of 'coffee oil' in 85 seconds.
> 
> the puck was fully saturated , however it was jet black and soggy.
> 
> I then changed the dial to 3 on the 3fe dial (2 ish old dial). 20g in ......24g came out!
> 
> Grind at zero is not only choking the machine more efficiently than the royal could, but is physically clogging the grinder itself! coffee bean flour.
> 
> Several shots later at around 3-3.2 on the 3fe dial and I'm getting 20g in and 19.5-20g out time after time.
> 
> I never want to go back to zero again, it scares me


Is yours a Turkish disguised as coffee?


----------



## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Is yours a Turkish disguised as coffee?


That's exactly what I said but he won't bloody take it to bits!!


----------



## ronsil

I believe what Gary is saying

I've never had the problems some of you guys have had in that you have difficulty in grinding fine enough or worried being too close to your zero.

So maybe we have to accept that these Machines can be different


----------



## Mrboots2u

ronsil said:


> I believe what Gary is saying
> 
> I've never had the problems some of you guys have had in that you have difficulty in grinding fine enough or worried being too close to your zero.
> 
> So maybe we have to accept that these Machines can be different


To be fair Ron the roast level of your beans accounts for a lot of this .

I put through your blend at way past 2 on the Callum dial, this was not the case with lighter roasted beans I use .

Agree there is some thing about man and machine and in between that give different results.

I think Gary's Seems to behave significantly different though


----------



## JKK

ronsil said:


> I believe what Gary is saying
> 
> I've never had the problems some of you guys have had in that you have difficulty in grinding fine enough or worried being too close to your zero.
> 
> So maybe we have to accept that these Machines can be different


Bummer.

So should I try my luck and buy another EK43 ? 

-JKK


----------



## Mrboots2u

No a machine with pre infusion


----------



## ronsil

Mrboots2u said:


> To be fair Ron the roast level of your beans accounts for a lot of this .
> 
> I put through your blend at way past 2 on the Callum dial,


That's fair comment.

So you see another advantage to darker beans.


----------



## garydyke1

Im using medium roast. I suspect this grinder would choke with workshop or wendelboe just about


----------



## 4085

Can I ask a question? It seems that different owners are experiencing very different results with their machines. Some can choke, some do not seem able to grind that fine. I do not understand these alleged variances.


----------



## garydyke1

These burrs look like Turks to you ?


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> These burrs look like Turks to you ?


Yup, the triangular flat sections are longer on the Turks and I would say that these match my pics, hold on a sec.....


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Can I ask a question? It seems that different owners are experiencing very different results with their machines. Some can choke, some do not seem able to grind that fine. I do not understand these alleged variances.


Part type of machine ( pump, lever pre infsuion )

Part type coffee used ( light roast ) and dose and basket

Part barista and prep and tamp

Part god knows why

Does this mean I can post on the Vesuvius thread now


----------



## 4085

Vesuvius thread.....nowt to do with me, so you carry on matey


----------



## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Vesuvius thread.....nowt to do with me, so you carry on matey


So yep.

I do think its a combination of all of those plus where its zeroed also.

I choked the lever with Ron's coffee at 1.5 for example....


----------



## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> Can I ask a question? It seems that different owners are experiencing very different results with their machines. Some can choke, some do not seem able to grind that fine. I do not understand these alleged variances.


Different beans

Different zero point calibration

Different machines

Different shot prep

Different baskets

Different tempers

Different pre-infusion

There is a possibility that Gary has Turkish burrs in his which would explain the variances in this case.


----------



## ronsil

I think 'tempers' or is it tampers, is very appropriate.


----------



## Geordie Boy

Post #1605 has a side by side photo of the 2 burr types


----------



## Mrboots2u

Geordie Boy said:


> Post #1605 has a side by side photo of the 2 burr types


You could have quoted it so I don't have to sort though it again....


----------



## JKK

Mrboots2u said:


> No a machine with pre infusion


Joking aside, doesn't the Expo have pre-infusion built in ?

Otherwise, what is it doing for the first 10sec after the pump is switched on.

-JKK


----------



## Geordie Boy

The Systemic Kid said:


> Nice courier man dropped off the Turkish burrs this morning. Just finished fitting them
> 
> Don't seem that different to coffee burrs at first sight
> 
> View attachment 7768
> 
> 
> Difference is noticeable at the outer edge. Where the coffee burrs have a definable ridge (left pic), the Turkish are almost smooth - hence their ability to grind to flour consistency.
> 
> View attachment 7769
> View attachment 7770


There you go. You lot are hard to please sometimes


----------



## garydyke1

Excited and bemused . My burrs are NOT turkish , Spence popped over with a set of genuine Turks.

My burrs are also NOT coffee burrs as per previous EK43s.

Newer EKs (it seems) have redesigned burrs and pre breakers!


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Excited and bemused . My burrs are NOT turkish , Spence popped over with a set of genuine Turks.
> 
> My burrs are also NOT coffee burrs as per previous EK43s.
> 
> Newer EKs (it seems) have redesigned burrs and pre breakers!


All of this = Cardamom Burrs


----------



## garydyke1

cardamon burrs ftw : )

They make Indian coffee taste superb


----------



## coffeechap

JKK said:


> Joking aside, doesn't the Expo have pre-infusion built in ?
> 
> Otherwise, what is it doing for the first 10sec after the pump is switched on.
> 
> -JKK


putting 10 bar pressure through the puck


----------



## coffeechap

but the one that jkk has is from exactly the same batch as yours gary


----------



## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Excited and bemused . My burrs are NOT turkish , Spence popped over with a set of genuine Turks.
> 
> My burrs are also NOT coffee burrs as per previous EK43s.
> 
> Newer EKs (it seems) have redesigned burrs and pre breakers!


Hmmmm....

Demand refund


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> cardamon burrs ftw : )
> 
> They make Indian coffee taste superb


No surprise there then....


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> but the one that jkk has is from exactly the same batch as yours gary


nope, mines fresh off the shipment, newer serial numbers


----------



## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Hmmmm....
> 
> Demand refund


Before you demand a refund, I never saw his burrs in the flesh, it could a ruse


----------



## Mrboots2u

I'm drinking brewed anyway


----------



## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> I'm drinking brewed anyway


best chemex at home ever from my 'not yet seasoned' cardamom burrs


----------



## coffeechap

garydyke1 said:


> nope, mines fresh off the shipment, newer serial numbers


i take it yours arrived a couple of weeks ago? in which case they are from th same batch


----------



## garydyke1

coffeechap said:


> i take it yours arrived a couple of weeks ago? in which case they are from th same batch


Approx 10 days. serial number please. its now 541 and 542xxx

need pics from more sources, the burrs have changed


----------



## Xpenno

Defo think they look more like turks than coffee, strange indeed.....










Turks on the left, coffee right....


----------



## garydyke1

I would say more like coffee in terms of the width between teeth at the edges, but more like turks on the length of the teeth.

Hybrids.....


----------



## JKK

garydyke1 said:


> Approx 10 days. serial number please. its now 541 and 542xxx
> 
> need pics from more sources, the burrs have changed


Hello

Mine is:-

54072X



coffeechap said:


> putting 10 bar pressure through the puck


Not really.

The pressure reading is around 2 - 3 bar for the first 8seconds then

quickly ramps up to 9bar on Expos'.

-JKK


----------



## Xpenno

JKK said:


> Not really.
> 
> The pressure reading is around 2 - 3 bar for the first 8seconds then
> 
> quickly ramps up to 9bar on Expos'.
> 
> -JKK


The expo has a vibe pump and therefore gets up to pressure slower than a rotary. It's effectively heading straight to the max pressure as soon as you pull the lever up. There is a pre-infusion chamber in the E61 group and this means that there is a small flat spot in the pressure ramp at around 3-4 bars for a couple of seconds. It's not really that comparable to what people are doing with pre-infusion today though. I.e. 8 seconds at 2 bar and then ramp to 9 bar for 20 seconds etc....


----------



## Xpenno

Left Vibe, Right Rotary










Vibe has slower more even ramp to 9bar, Rotary has quicker rise and you can notice the effect of the pre-infusion chamber more clearly on that graph.


----------



## Xpenno

A couple of people asked how I aligned my EK burrs so here's some pics....

Sick burr in pre-breaker










Chop up an old plastic folder










Wedge the plastic between the burr and pre-breaker










Screw down the screws and the turn them all back half a turn, he burr should hardly move now. Screw them back down and then dance a merry jig....










Hope it helps someone...


----------



## garydyke1

Those the turks?


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Those the turks?


13-Yarp-Chars


----------



## garydyke1

Clearly not Turks in mine.


----------



## Terranova

Xpenno said:


> A couple of people asked how I aligned my EK burrs so here's some pics....
> 
> Sick burr in pre-breaker
> 
> Chop up an old plastic folder
> 
> Wedge the plastic between the burr and pre-breaker
> 
> Screw down the screws and the turn them all back half a turn, he burr should hardly move now. Screw them back down and then dance a merry jig....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it helps someone...


The axial play does not really mean a lot and in this range it won't effect the extraction yield at all whereas radial play is the extraction / particle size killer.

It is also much harder to get rid of, or to measure it.

Got an EK 43 up for grabs inclusive a volumetric dosing system, glass hopper and new coffee burrs maybe I should offer it in the buy / sell section.


----------



## coffeechap

how much frank?


----------



## hotmetal

Ah, glasshopper!

Sorry. I've been testing the TDS of Sam Smith's stout to see if it weighs more than 568g/pt. Ignore me.


----------



## Terranova

coffeechap said:


> how much frank?


Hmm I would say 1500£ depending on the finish of the hopper lid even a bit more, DLC coated or just any galvanic surface treatment makes a difference.

Some bushings inclusive.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Terranova said:


> The axial play does not really mean a lot and in this range it won't effect the extraction yield at all whereas radial play is the extraction / particle size killer.
> 
> It is also much harder to get rid of, or to measure it.


For those of us who don't know our axial from our radial play


----------



## garydyke1

Terranova said:


> The axial play does not really mean a lot and in this range it won't effect the extraction yield at all whereas radial play is the extraction / particle size killer.
> 
> It is also much harder to get rid of, or to measure it.
> 
> Got an EK 43 up for grabs inclusive a volumetric dosing system, glass hopper and new coffee burrs maybe I should offer it in the buy / sell section.


Careful re-assembly , i.e. the 2 screws on the front ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Terranova said:


> The axial play does not really mean a lot and in this range it won't effect the extraction yield at all whereas radial play is the extraction / particle size killer.
> 
> It is also much harder to get rid of, or to measure it.
> 
> Got an EK 43 up for grabs inclusive a volumetric dosing system, glass hopper and new coffee burrs maybe I should offer it in the buy / sell section.


How would one go about measuring the radial play on the ek burrs then


----------



## Xpenno

Terranova said:


> The axial play does not really mean a lot and in this range it won't effect the extraction yield at all whereas radial play is the extraction / particle size killer.
> 
> It is also much harder to get rid of, or to measure it.


You're not going to hear any arguments from me









For the radial movement and with everything properly clean inside, the only thing that I've come up with that could cause this issue is the burrs themselves and the only method I can think of if this is the case is to rotate each blade around 120deg at a time and note the sound at zero. It's not accurate technically but I'm not sure what else can be done about measuring this. Any suggestions?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> How would one go about measuring the radial play on the ek burrs then


With a precision tool like this


----------



## Mrboots2u

Helpful not......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Helpful not......


You didn't sniff when I used it to remove the seals on the LI


----------



## garydyke1

You may freak out when you hear newer EK43Ts also have different burrs to previous models......


----------



## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> You may freak out when you hear newer EK43Ts also have different burrs to previous models......


Going to lie down in a darkened room until my head stops spinning


----------



## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Going to lie down in a darkened room until my head stops spinning


Who would have thought that one grinder could cause so much "excitement"


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## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Who would have thought that one grinder could cause so much "excitement"


...or confusion


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## garydyke1

This is the section which has been revised as far as I can see


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## garydyke1

And here is a Turkish prebreaker


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> And here is a Turkish prebreaker


Yep - that's definitely different - seven spirals to the original Coffee burrs' prebreaker having five. So how many variants does that make?

EK Coffee burrs

EK Turkish burrs

EK Turkish burrs and coffee prebreaker

EK Coffee burrs with revised burr set

EK Coffee burrs with revised burr set plus different prebreaker


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## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> Yep - that's definitely different - seven spirals to the original Coffee burrs' prebreaker having five. So how many variants does that make?
> 
> EK Coffee burrs
> 
> EK Turkish burrs
> 
> EK Turkish burrs and coffee prebreaker
> 
> EK Coffee burrs with revised burr set
> 
> EK Coffee burrs with revised burr set plus different prebreaker


The pre-breakers were always different between coffee and turks, not sure that the pre-breaker has changed here just the Burrs. John Gordon recommended EK with Turk burrs and coffee pre-breaker when we were first looking at the EK.

The options today (as far as we know) are

Choose a burr set

Old Coffee Burrs

New Coffee Burrs

Old Turkish Burrs

New Turkish Burrs

Choose a Pre-Breaker

Coffee Pre-Breaker

Turkish Pre-Breaker

Endless options


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## garydyke1

The differences are clear here (both 'turkish' sets)


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## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> The differences are clear here (both 'turkish' sets)


Hello, he's gone all CSI on us....

From you're pics it's the same with Kaffe as well, more narrow / pointy raised area.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> A couple of people asked how I aligned my EK burrs so here's some pics....
> 
> Sick burr in pre-breaker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chop up an old plastic folder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wedge the plastic between the burr and pre-breaker
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screw down the screws and the turn them all back half a turn, he burr should hardly move now. Screw them back down and then dance a merry jig....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it helps someone...


Thanks for this spence , I know my contact pestering as to now you achieve this with your blue peter skills eventually paid off .

I think there are some great tips and tricks in this thread now but lost in the gunk of my obsessive crap posting .

I'm going try and move or copy some of these to a new thread for reference only .

Such as the pics of burrs , clips of aligning and zeroing out etc ...


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## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> Thanks for this spence , I know my contact pestering as to now you achieve this with your blue peter skills eventually paid off .
> 
> I think there are some great tips and tricks in this thread now but lost in the gunk of my obsessive crap posting .
> 
> I'm going try and move or copy some of these to a new thread for reference only .
> 
> Such as the pics of burrs , clips of aligning and zeroing out etc ...


Don't delete them by accident now (could maybe just move the photos to the ek group)?


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## Mrboots2u

Christ delete stuff , that's censorship jeebsy..


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## Mrboots2u

Group function is arse to be honest a and waste of time, especially on tapatalk as it currently works....

Il have a router through this thread and see what I achieve .


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## Xpenno

Agreed, could do a general EK banter and EK Tips & Tricks threads, the latter's content is maintained by the moderators to keep it clean. It's a shame that the group function isn't more full featured


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Christ delete stuff , that's censorship jeebsy..


Book burning too


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## jeebsy

Boots is well known for his 'slippery finger' when deleting things


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## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> Boots is well known for his 'slippery finger' when deleting things


Boots is not known as the 'digit of doom' for nothing


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## jeebsy

Going to do a v60 tonight, what ballpark setting fir grind in coffee burrs (if the dial was a clock)?


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## The Systemic Kid

About two thirds round from finest, Jeebsy, is a good place to start.


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## CallumT

A low dosed v60 is usually around 7 to 8 o'clock ish with Matt perger's brewers cup recipe


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## jeebsy

Cheers. Don't want to waste any of this premium coffee! The last one I did was far too coarse


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## jeebsy

15.5 on the Irish dial, worked out pretty much bang on pouring alongside the Perger video


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## garydyke1

Hoping Spence will post the pics and results from yesterdays EK old versus EK new. There is a definite difference !


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Hoping Spence will post the pics and results from yesterdays EK old versus EK new. There is a definite difference !


Taste ?

yields ?

??????????


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> Taste ?
> 
> yields ?
> 
> ??????????


Some people have no patience.

Didn't get as far as optimising taste


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## jeebsy

So what were the differences? We're all in suspenders here.


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## Xpenno

Just back home. Will sort out the pics and spreadsheet and post up the "findings" in a bit.


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## jeebsy

A quick summary will do for now!


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## Mrboots2u

Gary's is better !)


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## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> A quick summary will do for now!


Gary's is different.


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## jeebsy

Looks like we might need that spreadsheet and the findings after all.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Gary's is different.


Gary IS different


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## Drewster

Mrboots2u said:


> Gary is *special*


ftfy

Why 13 byte limit?


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## Xpenno

So yesterday we had chance to get my EK (old) and Gary's (New) side by side with a job lot of coffee and a VST Refractometer. Machine was my Vesuvius.

We kicked off with a quick shot from what I had dialled in (HB San Seb Washed) 20g, split pour into 2 30g shots. Tasting good









Bored with drinking coffee that tasted nice we decided to start from the start and pinned both EKs to zero. We used same dose, same coffee, same prep (See photo later), same profile etc.. and ran the two shots back to back until 40g of "beverage" was delivered in the cup. This would prove whether or not that was actually something to talk about or if the differences were all make believe. Sure enough with the old EK the shot took 40 seconds to achieve 40g while the new EK took 75 seconds to produce the same amount of liquid.

Now that we had something to look at we ran a bunch of shots, some of which went straight down the sink and some of which we measured. The results that we decided to record are as follows










On the whole the old EK seemed to produce a slightly higher extraction yields for the same shot and to achieve that shot you had to grind higher on the 3fe dial. From the tests that we did here there was no real winner but the best shot of the day was probably from the new EK.

We had a short break for a couple of cappas as Gary wanted to test the steaming ability of the Vesuvius. Expecting nothing less, they tasted and looked great









Following the success of the cappas we decided to start trying to refine the taste and to focus more on the flavour of the shots but we were pretty messed up by caffeine already. We managed to come to the conclusion that something was missing and worked out that the Vesuvius was running a little low on the brew temperature with the factory settings and cranked that a little. Following the temp boost we made some really nice tasting shots however time was running out and our hands were shaking too much to measure these with the VST and we decided to call it a day shortly after.

There was no real conclusion from the day as to whether one was better than the other. Both are capable of producing great tasting shots and both produce very similar tasting shots, the new grinder is perhaps better at producing slightly shorter shots (40g) than the old and it certainly has the ability to grind finer. At this point we're not quite sure what effect the slightly low temperature (around 3 deg too cold) might have had on the extraction yields so the results are only really useful as a side-by-side comparison. I would be really interested to understand what the differences in the burrs/grinders actually are but they seem to be somewhere in-between the old coffee and the Turk.

Other notes from the day

New EK was less noisy, less messy, less static-y, quicker to grind. Although we didn't compare directly to the Turks in the end, these are the differences that I noted when changing between the two however these are not Turks and that's a fact!

A few pics from the day



















Mr **** sweeping the grinds level (yes this actually happened!)




























Because it amused Gary


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## garydyke1

The aim was :

1. Do the new EK Burrs behave differently to older sets ? YES

2. Do extraction % differ at the same yields ? YES

3. Let dial each grinder in to taste as good as we can - RAN OUT OF TIME

Key points :

Both on zero - 40 seconds versus 75 seconds for same yield.

One messier than the other

One quieter than the other

One faster than the other

The new EK burr tastes good at 19-20% extraction, my older one would have similar levels of sweetness and clarity at 22-23-24%. (I have not pushed extraction up to those levels as i'm enjoying some texture in the cup for now) Ive no doubt 55-60-65g output from new burrs would amplify clarity and sweetness.


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## Mrboots2u

So your burrs are better then Gary


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> So your burrs are better then Gary


depends on your definition of better. noise, speed, ability to go fine, not needing to be seasoned (and mess) = yes.

In the cup, its a tricky one. They are both crazy good when nailed. Im enjoying shorter, higher TDS shots than I was before. Ive not yet pushed this to bigger extractions yet, thats for another weekend, if they get sweeter and cleaner then i'll enjoy having 2 options from one set of burrs when it comes to EKpresso.

I dont see a need for Turks with this new set, the older one it was borderline at times


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## Mrboots2u

Funnel prototype number 36

Inception funnel

Spence funnel with gasket = brilliant fit for vst







too much static









Killer funnel no static







too small diameter for vat basket

So...

Inception funnel


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## 4085

Are those boulders Bootsie? I sometimes glance at this thread but it always makes my head hurt! I really admire you boys who have the tastebuds and technical ability to do this sort of stuff......me, I just want a cup of coffee!


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## garydyke1

boulders? from an EK? lol


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> boulders? from an EK? lol


Lol , they are stales that I'm grinding btw ..

Yes it just like a mignion boulders everywhere ...


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## 4085

garydyke1 said:


> boulders? from an EK? lol


what would you call them then gary? pretend boulders!


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## Mrboots2u

Honestly Mr Kidd get back to making hasbean coffee ....

" boulders " don't hamper extraction yield .....


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## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> Are those boulders Bootsie? I sometimes glance at this thread but it always makes my head hurt! I really admire you boys who have the tastebuds and technical ability to do this sort of stuff......me, I just want a cup of coffee!


They do look like boulders, I had one earlier, not the norm and I'm putting it down to the hurricane.

I can totally understand why someone would just want a coffee, myself included, can't argue with that at all. It's not all science experiments with the EK but they are the bits we tend to talk about here. Sometimes I do like to go mad and try something unconventional though


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## Mrboots2u

When get the yummy yield shot though it's all worth it .

Plus funnels are fun


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## 4085

I have the perfect system for defining coffee. I try it and categorise it.......sink or drink!


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> When get the yummy yield shot though it's all worth it .
> 
> Plus funnels are fun


Never going to argue with that and with my funnel fetish out in the open I think that everyone knows I with you there also


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## garydyke1

The 'boulders' are not directly from grinding in my experience , its when you shake the output, loose grinds which aren't in the main bed all cling together under static.

this can be eliminated by a 'Perger shake ' , quick brush to create a 'bowling green' finish, then a single tap down.

If you want to see real boulders then get a k30 Air at or near zero when its 28 celcius in the room. still get 19% extractions all day long


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## Viernes

What is the "new EK"? It has a different motor?


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## 4085

When is a boulder not a boulder? When it is produced by an EK43 of course! Thank god lord Matt has found a way around this. I am actually on one knee as I am writing this.


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## garydyke1

dfk41 said:


> When is a boulder not a boulder? When it is produced by an EK43 of course! Thank god lord Matt has found a way around this. I am actually on one knee as I am writing this.


Being on one knee affects your ability to read also it seems


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## garydyke1

Viernes said:


> What is the "new EK"? It has a different motor?


Burr design it seems


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> When is a boulder not a boulder? When it is produced by an EK43 of course! Thank god lord Matt has found a way around this. I am actually on one knee as I am writing this.


Blah blah blah blah

Get back to your own thread


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## 4085

Bye bye but if you find a sensible answer, pm me.......lol


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## Viernes

garydyke1 said:


> Burr design it seems


It's quieter due to the burr design?

Interesting...


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## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> depends on your definition of better. noise, speed, ability to go fine, not needing to be seasoned (and mess) = yes.


Doesn't leave much room for downsides


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## jeebsy

http://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/products/ek43-dial

Just seen this for sale - think i'll stick with my 3fe dial but looks good on the black machines


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## The Systemic Kid

Doesn't do it for me


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## The Systemic Kid

After 20kg plus through the Turkish burrs, seem to be settling down nicely. For brewed coffee, had been setting to coarsest to get Chemex yields where I wanted then and, even then, finding it nigh on impossible to get an extraction yield below 20%- even at the coarsest setting - my preference seems to be nearer 19%. Now able to achieve this. Espresso shots are coming out between setting 6 - 4 on the Callum dial - depending on dose weight.


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## jeebsy

Dunno what's happened since taking it apart but just ran some cult of done through. Would generally have ground this at 2 but pours have been a bit slower since star anise-gate so went to three. Should have been well quick but took pushing 40 secs to get 60 out from 20.

Edit: made another ground at 3 with no nutation, 60 out in 29. So sweet. Lovely.


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## The Systemic Kid

You clearly zeroed the burrs spot on, jeebsy.


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## jeebsy

Lucky I ground that star anise in the end then eh!


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## The Systemic Kid

Every cloud, or is that star, has a silver lining


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## jeebsy

View attachment 9040


Think that's enough for now...


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## jeebsy

Haven't been enjoying ek shots as much recently. Times have been creeping up and output down so went back to basics - 50-60 out in 25 secs. Much better.


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## Xpenno

Always good to go back to basics once in a while. It's easy to get lost in small incremental changes and end up somewhere that's not good.


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## jeebsy

Crazy gushers ftw. Just need some yirga or something to confirm.


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## ronsil

I always stay at my 'basics'. Never move away from what I like & have found to be best suited to my needs.

That's the reason you'll get very little comment out of me after the initial setup of a piece of new kit. In exchange for this mindset I always enjoy my daily coffees be it espresso,cappas or whatever.

The Vesuvius has enabled me to keep a Profile free for experimentation but its only that, just to keep me up to speed with what others are doing.


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