# How much water should come out of the waste pipe?



## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

Hello,

I have just bought the Dual Boiler Leva that can run on plumb or tank water. I'm running on tank water with Tesco stuff. I'm getting used to the machine since upgrading from my Gaggis and have been looking at the pressure guages while brewing, etc. The steam hovers around 1 bar and the brew pressure goes between 2 and 9 bar, with 9 bar showing while actually brewing.

I have noticed water dripping from the pipe behind the group while warming up, which I understand is normal. Also while brewing and using a blank filter for adjusting/ checking pressure or back flushing, water runs out of the pipe. This also happens when I pull a shot. I get as much dumped water in the drain tank as I do through my coffee in the cup. It seems like quite a lot. I've seen an old post where someone bought silicon tube and routed it back to the tank - just like my Classic does. I'm planning to make this simple change, so water just get fed back to the tank. My question was how much should be draining out while in use?

I'm trying to get my grind right and am still using my old MC2 grinder while I wait for the Sette or Mini Mazzer. Is my grind too fine, meaning lots of back pressure and water blowing off to the drain. My coffee puck seems damp after I pull a shot. I'm planning to measure out 60ml over approx 25 secs to get an idea. That seems to be recommended.

Is there some way to adjust this, so less water drips through? Or is it just completely normal.

Please note, this is not the flush of water from the bottom of the group when lowering the lever. It is the small pipe to the rear of this that is dripping while pulling a shot. And a few drops while warming up - which I'm not too worried about.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Don't make that change - as the liquid being expelled is not just clean water.

When you stop your shot go half way then after a couple of seconds close the lever fully.

This will take any excess liquid off the top of the puck and shoot it out the exhaust chute into the drip tray.

This follows the same route when you backflush (using the blind filter)

Expect to get about 30 mls of water (a shot) through this pipe.


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

Hello and thanks for the reply.

I have put a small tube on the Opv exhaust (tiny pipe behind the group) into a glass, another to catch my shot and another to catch the whoosh of water from the bottom of the group, when the lever is lowered.

I just made my grind a tad finer and measured around 15g into my double portafilter. It took 29.30 secs to extract 60ml.

During this time 80 ml of water came out of the little pipe and 30 ml whooshed from the bottom of the group when the lever was lowered. That's 170ml of water to make a 60 ml double shot.

I'm not concerned about the extract time for now or the amount of bottled water I'm using to make the shot. It's £1 Tesco stuff. It's the amount that is running into the drip tray that I am puzzled about. The Gaggia I had before had 2 pipes and just used to trickle a small amount down the little tube at the back.

You mentioned about 30ml through the pipe. I'm getting 80ml. Is this completely normal for this machine? Sorry for being fussy and pedantic if this is standard.

I did notice the coffee puck was dryer after waiting at the middle stage.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I've usually had less than 60mls (mostly about 30) but that is probably just my machine (Alex Duetto IV)


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I thought the pipe was just the exit for the diverted water from the OPV. On my machine the Teflon pipe goes into the reservoir and isn't connected to the drain pipe below the group. If you plumb in you'll have to use the drain pipe, obviously...

Quantity is releated to flow rate, which is related to pressure. Have a look around for recommended flow rates (from memory about 220ml in 30 seconds without the portafilter/basket installed). Changing brew pressure will affect how much water is ejected from then drain pipe and how much water runs through your group in 30 seconds.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

That. For reference, my Pro-700 does not "drip" whilst brewing a shot. It does drip a bit during warming up and a little afterwards.

Someone had the same issue here a while ago, I can't seem to find the thread.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@dmdrabble, see this:

Profitec 700 anybody got one?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D19480&share_tid=19480&share_fid=6813&share_type=t

Post #27 onwards. It may be that your issue is similar? Bear in mind the Pro has a rotary pump. If yours has a vibe pump, then it is not relevant, and what Rob1 says above is most likely what it is. Good luck.


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

If I have a brew later, I will clear my drip tray, measure and report back. I have a Leva, currently using tank fill, it's a vibe pump version.


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

wilse said:


> If I have a brew later, I will clear my drip tray, measure and report back. I have a Leva, currently using tank fill, it's a vibe pump version.


Could you let me know if you have one or two pipes going to your tank please?

I have seen two on YouTube and mine has one.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

I've got a Brewtus and:

1) No water "drips" from anywhere before/during/after brewing (well except a few drips from the pf immediately after)

2) When I flick the lever after a shot the pressure relief "squirt/gush" (from the pipe behind the brew head) is a fraction of a second and a "shortish" shots worth...ie I haven't measured it but it doesn't seem like an awful lot.... (but as I also use bottled water the Tight-arse in me does sometimes think "I've paid for that water!!")

I have two pipes going into the top of the tank.......


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

I have two pipes going into the tank, and similar to Drewster, I don't think a lot of water is used.

From memory, water only really comes from the bottom of the group after pulling the shot and detaching the PF...

...I can't remember if anything/much comes out of the smaller metal 90 degree bend pipe.

I'm running on Volvic, so will be interested to find out!


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

I've emailed Bella Barista as its one of their machines and was bought in 2015. Theh were happy to transfer warranty from the forum member that owned it before.

I'll see what they advise. Strange how some have two pipes when I have one. Must be to do with the reservoir / plumb in switch.


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

OK, here are my results:

Machine on for 30 mins, brew boiler only.

No excess water.

Heated glass with 30g of water.

No excess either.

Brewed an espresso with 39g weight.

Once lever up, excess water ejected from the group [at the bottom] nothing from the bent microbore pipe.

Weight of excess was 39.5g!

Machine is November 2014.

Hope this helps?


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

Ok I have a brewtus 4 vibe pump and mine also has a constant stream of water from the small pipe behind the opv exhaust when brewing I've always thought it to be normal and never questioned why but now someone had mentioned it makes me wonder I only have one tube into the reservoir also anyone else with a 4 have the same issue


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

Maybe Dave will be able to clear this up


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

Hello all,

I've emailed and called Bella Barista and I'm waiting for a response. Please see a video on YouTube which explains how to check pressure and Opv pressure. It makes me think that my machine is set for plumb in, where water drains out to the tray and presumable to a mains drain.

Hope I'm not breaking any forum rules.


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

You'll see no water comes from the pipe during all of this. I would have dumped 150ml in this time. its telling he has a second tube back to the tank.

I posted a comment and they promised to ask Tod for an answer. Good stuff.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I know it's not the same machine but on my R58 the little outlet behind the group exhaust only drips a little bit during the warm up phase when the water is expanding as it heats. It doesn't drip from there once up to temp or during a shot. There is a reasonable amount of water that comes out of the exhaust after the lever is dropped to stop the shot - by eye I'd say maybe 15ml. It has never entered my head to actually measure it so I don't know exactly. As Glenn said yesterday - if you drop the lever to the halfway point briefly before pushing it all the way down, you get less water through the exhaust and drier pucks as the water from the top of the puck has a chance to go through the valve before you close it, and you've effectively shut the pump off slightly earlier in the shot, reducing the amount that goes to waste slightly.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I think the OP refers to the OPV and not the exhaust valve from the e61. So that any water diverted is thrown away instead of back in the tank(like in the Gaggia Classic for example). @dmdrabble, if you could video it, then things will be much clearer.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

See post 5:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-25945.html

And same issue you are having here:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-24161.html


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

Thanks so much for the advice. I have received a response from Jordan at Bella Barista and Todd at Whole Latte Love via their instructional videos on YouTube - they posted back a comment.

Todd's response:

For the plumbed machines we like to keep the over flow from the OPV into the drip tray so you can see when it gets full. If you want you can run it back to the reservoir and then just empty it. The higher the incoming pressure the more water bypassing the OPV. It is OK to dial back the incoming water pressure if you have a pressure reducer on the line.

Jordan:

HI David

This is normal for the plumbed in Expobar Leva's.

They are supposed to be plumbed out due to this which is why the drip tray comes pre drilled.

The reservoir only Leva's feedback in to the reservoir. You can with a 't' piece and some silicone do a modification to feed back (recycle) in to the reservoir.

It's basically the OPV doing this.

Kindest regards

All good stuff.


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

I think in summary, the plumbed models feed through to the drip tray and out down the drain, via the drilled drain and included plastic drain attachment. This must be to stop the water potentially filling via a constant fed mains supply.

The tank models have the Opv divert back to the reservoir. im guessing those with both options have the drain out via the pipe - maybe it's assumed it will be plumbed.

Thanks for links and help by the way. I think they describe exactly my query.

For those with dual set up like mine - you can take off the panel and look behind the bent exhaust pipe. It's easy to see the pipe coming directly off the Opv. Todd demonstrates this on the video. You could, if you like, get a longer silicone tube and just divert it back to the tank.

You would have water pushed back from the boiler to the tank and I guess it depends whether you want to do that and save water. But it's good enough for the tank version, it's good enough for me, so I'm about to order 1m of tube, probably 4mm internal diameter. I guess my tight Yorkshire roots won't let me see bottled water go down the drain(although I could collect it for my dimplex and flame effect fire). Nope - pipe ordered.

One thing is for sure, I know how to check pump pressure and I know what an Opv is. I know my pump pressure is working fine. I also know what the inside of my beautiful espresso machine looks like and feel more confident I could diagnose a fault - with the help of the forum of course.

For those with a similar query, I hope you may be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to do the £3 mod.


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

I'll deffo be doing this if possible it is a faff having to empty tray all the time also splashes from said pipe end up on front of the machine and tray. Could you document and photo the mod as you carry it out and upload the pics please


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

The silicone pipe is ordered. Just waiting for it to be delivered.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just to clear things up...anyone with a rotary pump talking about what comes out of their little tubes and expansion valves when brewing a shot...meaningless. This guy has a Vibe pump Brewtus, they control pressure using the expansion valve (OPV) to release the excess when the pressure is at about 9 bar. At one point they routed this water into the drip tray, then when they realised it fills the drip tray and people were pissed off with this (and it took them a long time to realise), they routed it to the tank. I can't remember when they made that change. The amount of water can be quite large, especially when the pump is in good nick and working well.

You can make that change yourself by routing a tube from the expansion valve directly to the tank, the water is clean and has simply been through the Vibe pump and expansion valve (same as the water for the espresso pretty much. Look at any of my machine reviews to see a selection of expansion valves, so you can identify what you are looking at.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/opv-over-pressure-valve


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

Davecuk. You are spot on. This is the vibe pump model, with tank and plumb option. I have a tank full of bottled water. Also you are correct about the amount. Probably more than actually goes into your shot. Anyhow. I've removed the pipe from the small pipe and rd routed a new pipe to the tank.

I have taken pictures for a forum member who requested or for anyone else interested.

The pipe in question

Images appear sideways on. Done in my phone.









View inside









showing coming from Opv









Other shots of new pipe


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

Could you let me know what you used for the mod

what size and type of tube

any fittings or clamps etc needed

thanks


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## dmdrabble (Aug 25, 2012)

Of course.

I got 2 Metre of food grade, flexible silicone pipe from ebay. External diameter 6mm and internal 4mm. No need for clamps as the pipes are a nice push fit. You could maybe get away with 1m, but I routed the pipe under the dual boilers (avoiding the chance they could come into contact with them) and to the rear. You can see this in the last picture. I then followed the path of the intake pipe from the tank, tucking it between the case to hold it in place - just like the intake.

The little bit of excess just sits inside the tank, although you can cut this if you like.


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## Nick0831 (Dec 27, 2014)

I bought the silicone tubing and did this little mod at the weekend. Pretty straightforward.


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## SmallLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Hello, i have a rancilio epoca s. There is constantly water comming out of my opv drain is this normal? If it is not normal what could be causing it?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

SmallLife said:


> Hello, i have a rancilio epoca s. There is constantly water comming out of my opv drain is this normal? If it is not normal what could be causing it?


 Is it a rotary pumped machine?, When you say constantly do you really mean constantly or only when pulling a shot? You can pop a vid on youtube and link to it here if you want to, it can help a lot.


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## SmallLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Thanks for the swift reply! I do mean constantly regardless of pump onnor off


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

If you are right and it's constantly coming out of the expansion valve, how much and is it water mains connected or internal tank? Load a bid to youtube if you like, it really helps.


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## SmallLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Water mains. I will try and get a vid but i have it pulled apart right now it will be a day or 2. Thanks!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

How much water is coming out


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## SmallLife (Feb 20, 2020)

A steady stream of water. Maybe 1 oz every 2 seconds


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

If that much is coming out of the expansion valve then the valve is probably faulty. You should check the valve has not been adjusted by someone who didn't understand it's function and change the valve if it's faulty. On a rotary pump machine set it to about 11.5 bar, set your pumps bypass to around 9 bar..


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## SmallLife (Feb 20, 2020)

Thank you!!! I will give it a try


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