# Scott Rao's comments from Instagram...



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I saw this reposted on facebook and thought it might be of interest to some here. If you care to look through the comments you'll find an interesting discussion started by our own @dsc in which Rao reveals he grinds directly into the portafilter and doesn't do any kind of stirring to the grinds as he finds it introduces inconsistency...the main thing of interest for me though is the line about a custom SSP burr set appearing in the wilds.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Db4ETJzj3/

Such a shame Rao can't think for himself and uses such a horrible grinder, must be another poor sap completely duped by DaveC's reviews.??


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Interesting comments from someone who we know if spending a chunk of their time developing a new distribution tool! (edit: Nope that's Perger...back to sleep cat).

But what I want to know is...

...how did he get coffee up here? ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> I saw this reposted on facebook and thought it might be of interest to some here. If you care to look through the comments you'll find an interesting discussion started by our own @dsc in which Rao reveals he grinds directly into the portafilter and doesn't do any kind of stirring to the grinds as he finds it introduces inconsistency...the main thing of interest for me though is the line about a custom SSP burr set appearing in the wilds.
> 
> Such a shame Rao can't think for himself and uses such a horrible grinder, must be another poor sap completely duped by DaveC's reviews.??


 Well he won't like the VDT then will he ?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

catpuccino said:


> Interesting comments from someone who we know if spending a chunk of their time developing a new distribution tool!
> 
> But what I want to know is...
> 
> ...


 Probably by grinding directly into the PF!

I knew Perger was making a distribution tool, had no idea Rao was. Hoping the vibration one from Antonio at ACS isn't going to be incredibly expensive.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> I knew Perger was making a distribution tool, had no idea Rao was.


 Ah wait I've suffered with Perger-Rao confusion! I've no knowledge Rao is either.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

> 4 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> Well he won't like the VDT then will he ?


 I expect a degree of consistency with that. Say you grind directly into the PF on placed on a stand and transfer it to that for 10 seconds, it should always be pretty much the same.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I used to have a lot of respect for Rao but nothing he said in the last year or so has been anything remotely interesting & he just seems obsessed with EY numbers? I find it hard to believe that he's still seen as some kind of authority.


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## Chin (Feb 27, 2020)

Confused  he say machine only good for espresso 

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/B8mRIZbpdSO/


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> I expect a degree of consistency with that. Say you grind directly into the PF on placed on a stand and transfer it to that for 10 seconds, it should always be pretty much the same.


 Yes, some coffees 10 seconds is enough, for others a bit longer. I quoted a paper in the written review, which said larger particles sink in one paragraph and then rise in the other. All the science conflicts, so it ends up being just gut feel. All my shots are done with a naked portafilter, because I'm lazy and I like the naked. It immediately shows you when a shot is no good, either down the front of the machine, your shirt or just the generally crap appearance. So it's in my interest to have a very low % of failed shots. I'm pleased to say apart from changing grind (and not always then), the shots are usually fine. Any videoed shot you see is mostly the first attempt with no multiple takes. That closing shot on the video was something whipped up in the Kaffelogic Nano 7, ground in the, Niche (Japanese test model), thingied in the VDT (prototype) and I simply pointed the camera at the machine and did a shot on the Crem One 2 B LFPP, (soon to be available), With the ECM Puristika (prototype) in the background.

There I've dropped loads of names...might enrage a few people, now to get back to my throne of darkness and get the advice of Demonic Comings on my next strategic move. ?

And all those should be coming off the counter next week to make room for some other machines.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Chin said:


> Confused  he say machine only good for espresso


 No he doesn't.

He says he prefers the Forte for drip, but the Niche is "good enough" & that he suspects that anecdotal evidence that conical grinders aren't good for brewed is perhaps guff.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

the_partisan said:


> I used to have a lot of respect for Rao but nothing he said in the last year or so has been anything remotely interesting & he just seems obsessed with EY numbers? I find it hard to believe that he's still seen as some kind of authority.


 I don't really follow him or anyone else for that matter. An 'obsession' with EY makes sense because it's the only real way of quantifying extractions and I'd bet he isn't solely obsessed with EY itself but also taste, which kind of goes without saying. Not sure why he's an authority figure, as I said I don't follow this stuff, but I'm guessing he knows a thing or two about coffee, roasting and various forms of extraction. Maybe you don't find his writing interesting because your experience and knowledge has exceeded his.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> I don't really follow him or anyone else for that matter. An 'obsession' with EY makes sense because it's the only real way of quantifying extractions and I'd bet he isn't solely obsessed with EY itself but also taste, which kind of goes without saying. Not sure why he's an authority figure, as I said I don't follow this stuff, but I'm guessing he knows a thing or two about coffee, roasting and various forms of extraction. Maybe you don't find his writing interesting because your experience and knowledge has exceeded his.


 His books on brewing & espresso were a terrific distillation of coffee know how & practical advice. I'd recommend them without 2nd thought.

But there are problems with the idea of a specific EY & ever higher EY being a meaningful guide to beverage quality (EY has always been expressed as a range of preference in the past). Finer grinds give high EY but also silt, which can be a problem. There's almost no data on EY vs grind distribution and now he has a Niche, it suddenly does something different (I haven't seen any evidence of 22% average EY for V60 myself, not even with the Niche prototype) to previous conical grinders (it certainly has a wider measurable distribution compared to Forte & EK-43) and the Niches we have been using for a year , or more (plus Konys & other conical grinders for however long before that)?

It's not a question of 'experience & knowledge exceeding', more a question of does the theory work out in practice & is it portable. My experience is that pushing EY for max sweetness can be great if silt isn't an issue, but coarser grinds & wider distributions can also be very pleasant at the lower side of normal. You can get 23% tasty extractions from a Porlex. Objective measurement doesn't seem to have a linear relationship to subjective taste preference.

The coffee you use can swing EY by 3 or 4% with the same grinder & method.

Nespresso have been exceeding 24% for years, it hasn't made it the best tasting coffee.

I'm not saying that there isn't room for higher EYs to make better tasting coffee (and maybe Scott's endeavors will assist that in the long run), but it has to be repeatable, predictable & accessible to be of value.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I personally find his comment on direct basket grinding rather odd, might work for filter, but for spro I'd say you'll end up with a very inconsistent grind distribution in the basket.

As for vibration distribution methods, look up threads from the toomuchcoffee forums from around 10-15 years ago where someone was using a dental vibrating table for distribution (with mixed results I think). Also fairly sure jepy on HB experimented with ultrasound for distribution (ages ago).

T.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MWJB said:


> His books on brewing & espresso were a terrific distillation of coffee know how & practical advice. I'd recommend them without 2nd thought.
> 
> But there are problems with the idea of a specific EY & ever higher EY being a meaningful guide to beverage quality (EY has always been expressed as a range of preference in the past). Finer grinds give high EY but also silt, which can be a problem. There's almost no data on EY vs grind distribution and now he has a Niche, it suddenly does something different (I haven't seen any evidence of 22% average EY for V60 myself, not even with the Niche prototype) to previous conical grinders (it certainly has a wider measurable distribution compared to Forte & EK-43) and the Niches we have been using for a year , or more (plus Konys & other conical grinders for however long before that)?
> 
> ...


 I'm not disputing the idea that EY itself is meaningless, and that pushing EY up will not necessarily make a better brew. I'm not aware he has a theory that higher EY = better coffee (at least not conclusively). He might have the idea and might well be testing it to see what he can do push EY up without any problems (hence the filter paper sandwich method to prevent silt). Is he saying the Niche is doing something different to all other grinders? I haven't seen that. He's sharing EY that he got with the Niche (not saying he couldn't get that with other grinders?) which is the only way he has of quantifying things, even if it isn't particularly meaningful. My "experience and knowledge exceeding" comment was more directed towards the idea Rao should not be regarded as an authority just because he is experimenting with things other people don't see as valuable. Maybe his ideas will come to something, maybe they won't. My definition of an authority is someone who might be worth listening to, not somebody who is always right; if it were the latter there wouldn't be any authorities. Your last sentence sums up my thinking perfectly, hence the bold highlight.



dsc said:


> I personally find his comment on direct basket grinding rather odd, might work for filter, but for spro I'd say you'll end up with a very inconsistent grind distribution in the basket.
> 
> As for vibration distribution methods, look up threads from the toomuchcoffee forums from around 10-15 years ago where someone was using a dental vibrating table for distribution (with mixed results I think). Also fairly sure jepy on HB experimented with ultrasound for distribution (ages ago).
> 
> T.


 Yeah I was surprised by that. Is he stirring in the basket? Didn't seem like it to me from his comments. Maybe using an OCD or something similar? Didn't socratic sift a dose, separate grind sizes, and layer it in the portafilter and find it made no difference to one where it was all mixed? Or maybe it was the exact opposite...Will have to search for that.

I did search for that many years ago when I thought of using sound after watching the way sand moved around over a speaker. The toomuchcoffee thread looks like it concluded that using the dental plate with a cup containing the grinds before transferring to the portafilter improved things, whereas using it with a loaded portafilter made things worse, which I suppose might be of interest to Niche users.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> Is he saying the Niche is doing something different to all other grinders? I haven't seen that. He's sharing EY that he got with the Niche (not saying he couldn't get that with other grinders?)


 He is saying that he gets average EY of 22% with the Niche for V60, That's substantially (2-3% depending on your EY formula) higher than my experience and higher than some folk get with an EK-43 which is supposed to get high EY's due to it's narrow particle distribution (this is part of his & others mantra - narrow particle distribution makes for higher, better tasting EYs).

I just think it's odd that nobody has found, or stated something like this in all the time that the Niche (which has a fairly normal particle distribution as far as I can tell) has been in the wild.


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

MWJB said:


> He is saying that he gets average EY of 22% with the Niche for V60, That's substantially (2-3% depending on your EY formula) higher than my experience and higher than some folk get with an EK-43 which is supposed to get high EY's due to it's narrow particle distribution (this is part of his & others mantra - narrow particle distribution makes for higher, better tasting EYs).
> I just think it's odd that nobody has found, or stated something like this in all the time that the Niche (which has a fairly normal particle distribution as far as I can tell) has been in the wild.


Could the higer than expect EY be due to the pour over head he is using with the decent....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

HowardSmith said:


> Could the higer than expect EY be due to the pour over head he is using with the decent....


 Maybe, but then it's not relevant to the grinder, it's relevant to making a V60 with a £2000+ espresso machine. It's a tiny, tiny proportion of V60s made, with no datums, or scale, relating to the universe of available brew grinders.


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Maybe, but then it's not relevant to the grinder, it's relevant to making a V60 with a £2000+ espresso machine. It's a tiny, tiny proportion of V60s made, with no datums, or scale, relating to the universe of available brew grinders.


FWIW he quoted 'consistent >24% extractions' with a EK. 24.9 was also mentioned... This is on his Instagram also.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Yup I'm fairly sure he was getting high EY extractions doing filter brews on the Decent.

Is anyone here a Niche user grinding straight into their baskets? Curious what your experiences have been in that area.

T.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

HowardSmith said:


> MWJB said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe, but then it's not relevant to the grinder, it's relevant to making a V60 with a £2000+ espresso machine. It's a tiny, tiny proportion of V60s made, with no datums, or scale, relating to the universe of available brew grinders.
> ...


 These are sound bites & snapshots, it would be more useful to see a bigger picture & have an idea of norms. He also said 90% of EK-43s don't deliver.

When I asked him via instagram he said his V60s were 21.5% to 24% with the Forte/Decent. If the Niche averages 22%, then it must exceed that & overlap considerably with the Forte on EY (if not on preference).

Still, Niche, EK, Forte - that's 3 grinders and one unusual, if effective, V60 method. If you think, from what he says, that you are going to pour water with a kettle into a V60 ground with a Niche and average 22% EY, you will be disappointed with the numbers.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I don't think it's hard to get high EY numbers when doing say V60, just grind very fine. I just think it's probably the worst way to improve a brew. Actually I think there may be some merit to the idea that at least for filter coffee you don't necessarily want a very narrow particle distribution, rather limit boulders and very small particles. Having a very narrow distribution makes for less interesting coffee. I don't know exactly why, but it seems that way from comparing various grinders.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

This reminds me of a video from sprometheus? is it on youtube where he compared the EY of the OCD tool vs toothpick vs tapping. 
he found the OCD and toothpick resulted in lower EY. 
So he stated that he would be stopping using the the OCD for this reason ?
No mention of taste or anything.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

This is the latest video on the OCD by Sprometheus, but anyone who is worried about getting chlorogenic acid in their shots probably shouldn't be making videos of this type...


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

MWJB said:


> [...]chlorogenic acid[...]


What?

T.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dsc said:


> What?
> 
> T.


 A significant component in all coffee.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

MWJB said:


> A significant component in all coffee.


I was referring to the comment re being worried about it.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

> 9 hours ago, MWJB said:
> 
> This is the latest video on the OCD by Sprometheus, but anyone who is worried about getting chlorogenic acid in their shots probably shouldn't be making videos of this type...


 Yeh I've got to say I watched a few of his videos and was a little bemused sometimes to say the least. Prefer James Hoffman's tbh


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TomHughes said:


> Yeh I've got to say I watched a few of his videos and was a little bemused sometimes to say the least. Prefer James Hoffman's tbh


 Having a theory that you with to confirm , then taking two shots to prove that theory ( when not blind ) , does really fill me with confidence on his premise.

Man who makes the OCD says it lowers extraction but it tastes better, coz it gets rid of funny bits ? Had a conversation with him about it he convinced me.... ? I then made two shots ( yes just two shots ) I prefer the shot with the OCD that i was given. Confirmation bias to say the least, plus perhaps his grinder is the limiting factor here too and it it shite over 19% ... ( Mazzer mini is it? )

Not a proponent of the OCD ether just the process used here questionable .


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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Having a theory that you with to confirm , then taking two shots to prove that theory ( when not blind ) , does really fill me with confidence on his premise.
> 
> Man who makes the OCD says it lowers extraction but it tastes better, coz it gets rid of funny bits ? Had a conversation with him about it he convinced me.... ? I then made two shots ( yes just two shots ) I prefer the shot with the OCD that i was given. Confirmation bias to say the least, plus perhaps his grinder is the limiting factor here too and it it shite over 19% ... ( Mazzer mini is it? )
> 
> Not a proponent of the OCD ether just the process used here questionable .


 Unfortunate reality that good experimental and statistical practice is generally not followed by the coffee world. People like Rao are seen as the 'coffee scientists' of the specialty coffee scene and yet he seems to just make lots of vague statements about averages of an unknown number of brews with unknown parameters and then attaching them to an EY number and people hail his commitment to talking facts. Even this actual peer reviewed paper about espresso was highly misleading in its experimental design and conclusions; it wouldn't have survived review in any scientific field committed to good practice (actually that's a lie, I've seen a lot of shite papers in my field with bad experimental and mathematical modelling practices).

There's no real problem with not being completely scientific with things, but this sort of halfway house a lot of the most prominent coffee people go for is very misleading, it makes people believe they are participating in some kind of meticulous objective process when the reality is far from it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I guess one important thing is he is raising questions which then may cause people who are interested to go and test the theories and even if they are proved false, other good things can drop out of that. If it makes people try things out, I suppose it's a good thing. The problem is a lot of people have busy lives, want easy answers and there is plenty out there to help them with that!


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## FlatWhitey (Apr 15, 2020)

HBLP said:


> There's no real problem with not being completely scientific with things, but this sort of halfway house a lot of the most prominent coffee people go for is very misleading, it makes people believe they are participating in some kind of meticulous objective process when the reality is far from it.


 Very true, and edited to refer to the vast majority of YouTube topics!

Coffee also makes this all rather more complex because it is so subjective given we're tasting something; you can be super objective to a degree, but it'll almost certainly have to end with subjectivity so that the results can resonate with the viewers.


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## MattGW (Jun 19, 2019)

FlatWhitey, you should count also that a lot of people and companies can afford comprehensive promotion for their channels in Instagram or TikTok, and they simply order every single offering like increasing number of fans which will be subscribed to a channel ( simple example: https://hypetik.com/buy-tiktok-fans/ ), and that's how they get higher positions in top lists of users.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

HBLP said:


> Unfortunate reality that good experimental and statistical practice is generally not followed by the coffee world. People like Rao are seen as the 'coffee scientists' of the specialty coffee scene and yet he seems to just make lots of vague statements about averages of an unknown number of brews with unknown parameters and then attaching them to an EY number and people hail his commitment to talking facts. Even this actual peer reviewed paper about espresso was highly misleading in its experimental design and conclusions; it wouldn't have survived review in any scientific field committed to good practice (actually that's a lie, I've seen a lot of shite papers in my field with bad experimental and mathematical modelling practices).
> 
> There's no real problem with not being completely scientific with things, but this sort of halfway house a lot of the most prominent coffee people go for is very misleading, it makes people believe they are participating in some kind of meticulous objective process when the reality is far from it.


 Id take Rao's tips over someone like socratic , who just seems be rich boys buying coffee machines. At least Rao has written and published for a good number of years.

I think social media isnt the best place to judge much to be honest , I can imagine how many of the same question he gets over and over and over again .

I see people like the RealSprometheus who just say absolutely contradictory things every video and when you ask em they just throw a paddy.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> I see people like the RealSprometheus who just say absolutely contradictory things every video and when you ask em they just throw a paddy.


 His videos are very strange. Feels like he's sincerely trying hard to put together good quality content and it's just not working for whatever reason.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Latest Rao x Niche:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/CAGeYyTJE4P/


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Money grabbing at its best


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@catpuccino wrote: "Latest Rao x Niche::"

Worrying that he's recommending the Timemore with it's massive design flaw (grind setting changes during grinding due to inadequate retention of finger tight, knurled locking nut).

It's also a pretty massive u-turn on the 'grind distribution vs cup quality' theory he has been pushing for years (& repeated without question by notable others).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

webdoc said:


> Money grabbing at its best


 In what way? Who do you know he is getting money off? Are you party to some financial information that the rest of us are not?

Or is it just one of those throw away comments where peopel feel aggrieved that someone has a different lifestyle to them?

I know Rao has some interest or partnership in the Decent, but given Niche's model, I would be skeptical that he is getting anything from giving his opinion on the Niche, even a free one to be honest. But if you know, let us know.

Man has been around in coffee for years, first book 2010, writing some of the first books that helped alot of people, with basic brewing and espresso.

His first milk steaming video is 2008, before most of us knew how to make a milk based drink .

While I don't agree with everything he says, i respect his vast experience in the coffee industry and he has a right to monetise that knowledge if there is a demand for it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

catpuccino said:


> His videos are very strange. Feels like he's sincerely trying hard to put together good quality content and it's just not working for whatever reason.


 It's woking in the sense that he gets alot of views and people seem to like it. Does not always seem to make sense though .


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> It's woking in the sense that he gets alot of views and people seem to like it. Does not always seem to make sense though .


I find his videos make good entertainment. Although I do doubt his experience and feel he is just following the trend.

I'd consider people like Hoffman, Perger, Rao as some what experts, they enjoy experimenting and have a lot of experience. Spromethius is kind of just a guy who likes to play with his kit and is happy to follow the trend making nice quality (nicely put together) videos that are entertaining and also fairly informative for the general coffee community.

Personally I like watching him but I know what to expect at the same time.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> In what way? Who do you know he is getting money off? Are you party to some financial information that the rest of us are not?
> 
> Or is it just one of those throw away comments where peopel feel aggrieved that someone has a different lifestyle to them?
> 
> ...


 Just common sense and the simple fact that i had the Niche and know what it is capable of and our views are opposed. Why the attitude?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

webdoc said:


> Just common sense and the simple fact that i had the Niche and know what it is capable of and our views are opposed. Why the attitude?


 It's not common sense to assert that someone is getting financial kickbacks. That's a bit beyond agreement/disagreement of opinion.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

webdoc said:


> Just common sense and the simple fact that i had the Niche and know what it is capable of and our views are opposed. Why the attitude?





webdoc said:


> Just common sense and the simple fact that i had the Niche and know what it is capable of and our views are opposed. Why the attitude?


 You have then measured it's extractions yields using a Decent , with blooming espresso then ? Over a number of shots, you have been to trade shows and out your opinions/reserach out there to be looked at.

Linking a difference of opinion to, to taking a financial dope is a bit of a long step.

I could surmise from that you are in the pay of Mazzer or another firm .

Slandering people is worse than any "attititude " you perceive me to have IMHO.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

HowardSmith said:


> I find his videos make good entertainment. Although I do doubt his experience and feel he is just following the trend.
> 
> I'd consider people like Hoffman, Perger, Rao as some what experts, they enjoy experimenting and have a lot of experience. Spromethius is kind of just a guy who likes to play with his kit and is happy to follow the trend making nice quality (nicely put together) videos that are entertaining and also fairly informative for the general coffee community.
> 
> ...


 His videos are well made, he just seems to get a bit itchy when you ask him question in the comments .


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

Like anything coffee related stuff, take it with a pinch of salt. Most of the stuff ain't founded on science, scientific methods and scientific methodology .

Rao is mostly talking and building his own theories on personal experience mixed with whatever the trend is. A good example is his roasting theory, a theory/practice that is hardly back by scientific evidence and methods.

Perger and "funny guy" Hoffmann is no different. Most of these self proclaimed experts/Gurus are guessing at the very best, it might be a qualified guess, but a guess nonetheless.

The all particle distribution, EY are not true science, it might be the best we have at the moment, but it would not survive the scrutiny of a true scientific methodology.


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## Niche Coffee (Aug 4, 2017)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/B9Db4ETJzj3/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

We would just like to confirm that the review was not paid for and Scott had no financial gain from it, and he bought his Niche back in February. We are really pleased with his review but had no involvement, it was actually recommended to him by John from Decent.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> His videos are well made, he just seems to get a bit itchy when you ask him question in the comments .


 Hes one of those "influencers" who are a very quick to promote something they like or think and don't really have to worry about whether they are promoting crap or talking crap. The epitome of the modern idea that you should have an opinion on every topic and be willing to publicly express that opinion no matter how stupid.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

mctrials23 said:


> Hes one of those "influencers" who are a very quick to promote something they like or think and don't really have to worry about whether they are promoting crap or talking crap. The epitome of the modern idea that you should have an opinion on every topic and be willing to publicly express that opinion no matter how stupid.


 If you post a hot take about hot takes someone's coming to come along and post a hot take about it and we'll be in a right muddle.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> If you post a hot take about hot takes someone's coming to come along and post a hot take about it and we'll be in a right muddle.


 Have you watched many of his videos?


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

mctrials23 said:


> Have you watched many of his videos?


 Yes


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> Yes


 What do you think he is trying to achieve with them. Hes not adding anything to the conversation and is basically just another youtube coffee "person". The best youtubers are doing something different or putting a different spin on a topic.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

mctrials23 said:


> What do you think he is trying to achieve with them. Hes not adding anything to the conversation and is basically just another youtube coffee "person". The best youtubers are doing something different or putting a different spin on a topic.


 I don't really like his videos (though they're fairly well produced), the content doesn't do much for me. I'm sympathetic that he's basically got to be a content mill to build momentum, he's working with a platform that comes with a huge amount of inertia for new content creators. With that means he neccesarily covers the trendy coffee items/topics (e.g. melodrip, flat tampers, flair etc) and it all ends up being a bit pastiche. Add into that some typical coffeebro-science and sure it's jarring. But I don't expect insightful, critical, best in class content from everyone on Youtube and with the quality of coffee content so I'm not going to call him out for being the worst/question his motivations. If he were in the business decades and had plenty of experience in technical writing and video production I might be more upset by it, but he's a few short years in, in a career transition and seems to be just figuring out if YouTube can be a part of his future.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> But I don't expect insightful, critical, best in class content from everyone on Youtube and with the quality of coffee content so I'm not going to call him out for being the worst/question his motivations


 I don't expect that either but we are entitled to our opinion on subjective matters and I think that for the most part his content lacks any real depth or value. The truly good channels don't always have great production, material or insight but they have something. For me, his channel doesn't. Its just a channel trying to get in on that youtube money.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

mctrials23 said:


> I don't expect that either but we are entitled to our opinion on subjective matters and I think that for the most part his content lacks any real depth or value. The truly good channels don't always have great production, material or insight but they have something. For me, his channel doesn't. Its just a channel trying to get in on that youtube money.


 Sure, I agree. I'm just explaining my pov. I was simply poking fun at criticising hot takes with a hot take™️ 😅


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> What do you think he is trying to achieve with them. Hes not adding anything to the conversation and is basically just another youtube coffee "person". The best youtubers are doing something different or putting a different spin on a topic.


 Oh shit, my morning coffee series is just back to basics, not about new gadgets or new kit, just boring stuff we all know but have forgotten about. Thank god I didn't waste my time on production values... 🤣

That said I've 2 or 3 in the bin that need editing and uploading when I get time.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> You have then measured it's extractions yields using a Decent , with blooming espresso then ? Over a number of shots, you have been to trade shows and out your opinions/reserach out there to be looked at.
> 
> Linking a difference of opinion to, to taking a financial dope is a bit of a long step.
> 
> ...


 Dude told us long ago he is done helping/promoting/doing stuff for free. My commons sense is fine and dandy. This is his job, exactly what he did before and will continue to do from now on, until it stops making him money. And yes, you have an attitude, I was wondering why. That's all

So by your logic, only using Decent achieves those EY right?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

webdoc said:


> So by your logic, only using Decent achieves those EY right?


 Rao said exactly this, yes.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Rao said exactly this, yes.


 LOL to whoever pays attention to this clown


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

webdoc said:


> LOL to whoever pays attention to this clown


 Are you just trolling now, or do you have any experience of tasty 25% extractions with V60 & Niche?


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

mctrials23 said:


> I don't expect that either but we are entitled to our opinion on subjective matters and I think that for the most part his content lacks any real depth or value. The truly good channels don't always have great production, material or insight but they have _something. _For me, his channel doesn't. Its just a channel trying to get in on that youtube money.


What YouTube channel has real value, depth and insight, I have yet to come across one.

Most channels are at the very best repeating the same thing over and over and it isn't really the place to look for insightful scientific explanations nor new idea.

But then again I don't really think social platforms are geared to giving insight, it is and has never been its strength. Social platforms is mostly about sharing, given basic information to the masses and for most cases gathering a following that can help you attract sponsors.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

you know that you replied to a 2yr old post?

Got rid of him pal, (Mod) ☕


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