# El Rocio Dual Boiler



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I have one of these coming early next week, the pressure profiling one with wood (Zarre)....well I hope so, because I've little interest in testing/reviewing the other one.

http://elrocio.co.kr/eng/shop/shop_view01.php

Should be interesting.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Cool - seen these popping up around the internet last year as prototypes


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Interesting! Not sure the three PID claim stands up! Will be most interested in your conclusions.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Taps look too close to the tray..


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

looks really interesting


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Liking that ... Envious of you !!!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Very interesting. Any info on pricing?


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Still liking it ... It's got everything I want from a machine ... Want want want


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

risky said:


> Very interesting. Any info on pricing?


Nothing firm at this point and it largely depends on how it tests.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

froggystyle said:


> Taps look too close to the tray..


Yeah I can see how the milk wand would allow you to sit the jug on the worktop off the side and steam but the water one is low.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

That looks interesting. Will you still be able to review it if you don't get a RRP?

What I mean is you could review it favourably thinking it could sit well as a challenger to the Brewtus in the budget dual boiler realm and then find out it's going to be £2500.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

If they are serious about entering the market of any English speaking country they're going to have to get someone to re-work their website. I've just read the introduction part to try and find out a bit of history on a brand I was unfamiliar with and it makes little sense.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Although the only Korean I know is taekwondo, the intro was a bit weird like you say. Especially the bit where they said making coffee machines was like watching your child taking its first steps and then comparing themselves to parents marrying off their daughters!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

cold war kid said:


> That looks interesting. Will you still be able to review it if you don't get a RRP?
> 
> What I mean is you could review it favourably thinking it could sit well as a challenger to the Brewtus in the budget dual boiler realm and then find out it's going to be £2500.


It's not that I don't have an RRP, for every machine tested and reviewed I have always had full sight of all the numbers..... When I test and review I do take all of this into account. Usually buyers to make their decision based on the definite RRP they see and the eventual write up on the machine. it's all about whether they like the look of it, the features and the quality level.

It is unfortunate though that a lot of people are far more influenced by how a machine looks rather than what's under the hood.



cold war kid said:


> If they are serious about entering the market of any English speaking country they're going to have to get someone to re-work their website. I've just read the introduction part to try and find out a bit of history on a brand I was unfamiliar with and it makes little sense.


I don't think so, you will be buying from a UK retailer, their own website shouldn't matter that much, many coffee related companies selling through retailers have fairly uninteresting websites. e.g. Toper, Genesis, Quickmill, Izzo etc.. etc.. Of course, if you like buying marketing spin....then a manufacturer website may have more importance..

I have been quite interested to see this machine since I first heard about it....in the same way I'm quite interested to try the Aillio Roaster when it's available from retailers, assuming retailers want to stock it after Aillio have hoovered up most of the sales.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mr El Roccio just arrived 5pm, sitting in his box in my hallway, just got to get up the energy and enthusiasm to unpack and install him in the Kitchen over the next few days.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Whoop ... I don't know why this excites me, but it does ... Fingers crossed the inside is all standard British copper fittings and Sizes


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Very nice looking machine imo, just the right mix of retro styling and modern elegance. Would be nice to see a pressure profiling machine that isn't in the 'way too much' price bracket!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

It must be just me but I'm undecided on the look of the machine. The side panels remind me of too many woodwork projects from my school days


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Heh ... I like the look, but concur to the school wood working project.

you would have thought with all that wood they would have thrown in a matching tamper ... I guess the sort of person that buys a pressure profiling machine already has enough tampers


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Plastic tampers perplex me, if you dont want to include a tamper thats up to the job then just dont include one...

"I really like the look of this 2k espresso machine that pressure profiles, but it doesn't have an included plastic tamper, so I'm going to look elsewhere..."


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Izzo tried a sorrento woud frame for the Alex, to make it less ugly...I thought it looked nice, but it wasn't popular. it was dark wood and I think lighter wood would have helped. With the Roccio, I'm personally not sure about the wood, the side panels to me look a little on the thick side and I would prefer thinner wood with a steel panel underneath, possibly it would look more elegant...That said, I have not seen it in the flesh, just on a website. So I might love it?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I'm personally not sure about the wood, the side panels to me look a little on the thick side


My first thought also, they look very thick. Can't understand why that thickness is necessary at all.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

risky said:


> Can't understand why that thickness is necessary at all.


Cheaper/younger wood that would warp if it was thin?

Stab in the dark as I'm no carpenter.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Dylan said:


> Cheaper/younger wood that would warp if it was thin?
> 
> Stab in the dark as I'm no carpenter.


Hrm well here is what I consider good looking wood side panels, maybe they aren't much thinner. Maybe it's the colour, quite a cheap 'Ikea' looking finish I guess.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Me personally I love Bakelite...

Can you imagine a machine with bakelite like these for panels and there is much more variety than this. It's the Oxymoron of a "quality" plastic (phenolic resin). I would think it would be a better long term choice than wood.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Post some photos of the naughty bits inside when you get it open will ya.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

And measure that hot water wand to see if it can be swapped out with a stubby one from a rocket or izzo ... Pretty please ????


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

@risky ... What is that machine ... I like that


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

h1udd said:


> @risky ... What is that machine ... I like that


La Marzocco GS3/MP fully tricked out by Specht Design in Australia.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Heh ... A basic one gets sold for £5.5k on BB ... Only a few thousand out of my budget


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

h1udd said:


> Heh ... A basic one gets sold for £5.5k on BB ... Only a few thousand out of my budget


I also don't think any of the GS3s are even remotely worth the money charged for them....I've never lusted after one and I could get one for cost if I wanted!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Get one for cost and ill buy it!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> I also don't think any of the GS3s are even remotely worth the money charged for them....I've never lusted after one and I could get one for cost if I wanted!


I quite agree with you Dave.....it is well documented that I bought a 6 month old GS3 automatic for a stupid stupid price, but even that was not enough to make me want to keep it! The trouble is, like beautiful women, we all lust after them, but, in truth, it is their skills in the kitchen department which are more important, if you follow my line of thought!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well I've set Mr Roccio up on the counter, started taking photos, then I got to put up with new machine taste for a while once I've washed things out and commissioned the machine.....not something I look forward to doing. Looks an interesting machine though.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

is it the same as pictures on the website ...... or are there some surprises like a hideous LCD panel bolted to it or a spiralizer ?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

What does the PID in the group head do?

For me, just looking at it, taps too close, shite wood, PID looks naff, brew button in strange place.

And whats a Dabo?

Price will make or break this machine i feel.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

taps too close to what ? ... each other ? .... they couldn't be any further apart unless you stuck them on hammerhead shark like stalks ?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Look at the website again....


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

actually I re-read your old posts ..... you mean taps as in the wand part, not the turny valve knob part.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

yes


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Not to steal Dave's thunder (and I'm sure it won't) there is an overview of the machine, its build and tech, by the manufacturer, on YouTube. Although for me personally I'm not massively struck on the looks, but it seems to be a very interesting proposition for those that like to tweak every variable. From the manufacturer video it appears to use decent parts. Is it going to muscle in on the Vesuvius? It will be very interesting to hear Dave's technical assessment.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It actually looks OK on the counter, no problems with either steam or water wands.

You cannot in any way compare this to a Vesuvius, because it simply doesn't do what a Vesuvius does, neither does a Slayer or a GS3 with the MP mods. The only machine that does what a Vesuvius does is the LM Strada EP....as both those machines manage pressure profiling correctly, the others are just flow profiling, or like this machine doing something else. Please don't believe everything you read on the web....especially on some other forums..

P.S. I've seen mention on another forum that it uses some valve to control preinfusion, although I have not opened it up for an internal exam yet, I can assure you it doesn't use a valve of any kind. There is a first look on another coffee website, if your reading that, much of the information is either misleading or unclear. In addition, NONE of the important stuff you will need to know is mentioned! It's more fanboy stuff than useful.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> P.S. I've seen mention on another forum that it uses some valve to control preinfusion, although I have not opened it up for an internal exam yet, I can assure you it doesn't use a valve of any kind.


Genuine question, how can you tell it doesn't use a valve without looking inside?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Could you also do a quick explanation of how this machines PP differs to the Vesuvius, from the laymans point of view.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

My guess is that the V actually allows you to program an envelope (eg 2bar, 2 seconds, then rise to 7 bar over 5 seconds, then up to 9 for remaining time) whereas the Korean machine allows you to vary the pressure just by turning the knob and watching the manometer?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

risky said:


> Genuine question, how can you tell it doesn't use a valve without looking inside?


lots and lots of experience of lots of machines and the specific way it works...which I can hear and see.



Dylan said:
 

> Could you also do a quick explanation of how this machines PP differs to the Vesuvius, from the laymans point of view.


Not easily, and to be honest that's something for a more considered review document, where it can be properly explained.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

The vid claims the rocio has 5 programmable pp time slots ... The Vesuvius has 7 ... So it must be something else ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

h1udd said:


> The vid claims the rocio has 5 programmable pp time slots ... The Vesuvius has 7 ... So it must be something else ?


Can you link this video, because if there are 5 programmable pressure profile slots, I can't see them?


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

no I cant !!!!

I have just gone through all the videos that I have watched on youtube ..... nothing ..... must have read it .. gone through all the blurb .. nothing ...... so sure I saw or read this, I have been through all my history and still cant find it

so sorry, miss information, I am positive I came across it was set up as profiling over 5 timeslots .... but I cant find it at all ... unless I am getting confused with another machine .... I have been looking at a lot recently


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

h1udd said:


> no I cant !!!!
> 
> I have just gone through all the videos that I have watched on youtube ..... nothing ..... must have read it .. gone through all the blurb .. nothing ...... so sure I saw or read this, I have been through all my history and still cant find it
> 
> so sorry, miss information, I am positive I came across it was set up as profiling over 5 timeslots .... but I cant find it at all ... unless I am getting confused with another machine .... I have been looking at a lot recently


I think much of the information about this machine is a little muddied. This is for 3 main reasons.

1. many of the people who have seen the machine at a coffee exhibition didn't really have much time and perhaps not the experience to understand it. Then they see videos and reviews later and misinterpret what they have seen

2. The 1st look on another coffee web site seemed to be done by someone inexperienced.

3. The Korean information is slightly (not intentionally so) misleading, as a lot is lost in translation. This can lead you to believe there are functions that it doesn't have. e.g. On/off timer...it has an on timer as in switch on at 08:00 but no off timer as in switch off at 23:30. looking at the controller menus you would be forgiven for thinking that it has both.

it's really easy to translate assumptions about what functions the machine must have and even forget to look for them. However the software is simple and does not have quite the functions people assume. I went looking for certain things and simply couldn't find them, because they didn't exist.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

well I finished my "one that got away" review last week..it's an engineering review with a little more window dressing for the general population. I don't know if Bella Barista will publish it or not....safe to say, I don't think they will be stocking it.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

That good eh?! Shame, looked kind of interesting.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

shame ... still doubt I could have afforded it anyway


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

That grouphead design was interesting. Machined from a single piece of material like that. Any other machines use this kind of design @DavecUK ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

risky said:


> That grouphead design was interesting. Machined from a single piece of material like that. Any other machines use this kind of design @DavecUK ?


I don't think so, TBH the group was the one thing I thought they should licence to other manufacturers.


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## Seoulhawk (Jun 16, 2019)

What was the outcome of this unit? I hope it was good, I just bought one about 30min ago. I live in Korea and went to their office last week and was going to buy the Manus, but my wife liked that black Zarre, so okay... I am good with that. Now just waiting to have it shipped. Then make them per order, don't carry and stock.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Seoulhawk said:


> What was the outcome of this unit? I hope it was good, I just bought one about 30min ago. I live in Korea and went to their office last week and was going to buy the Manus, but my wife liked that black Zarre, so okay... I am good with that. Now just waiting to have it shipped. Then make them per order, don't carry and stock.


 After the engineering review for the unit I had the Retailer decided not to stock it.....you never know though, they may have changed the design since I looked at it. I did do a "one that got away review for the El Rocio Zarre" back in January 2016 but I don't know if Bella Barista ever published it or not.. It's always a super great idea to ask a question like this *before* you buy a machine.


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## Seoulhawk (Jun 16, 2019)

Your right... Live and learn. Good news is their factory is 45min from my house. I am trying to update from my Rancilio Audry that I bought used 10 years ago. Even if it does not reach a pro barista's standards it's going to be better then what I have got.


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