# Looking to upgrade from Sage Oracle



## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

Hi, I'm a long time lurker but the bug has fully bitten.

I'm looking to upgrade my machine from my sage oracle, but have really gotten lost into wormholes searching the web for home espresso machines. My head is so scrambled!

My journey goes something like this. I had an entry level delonghi bean to cup machine many years ago, then swapped for a Nespresso. This didn't last long and I picked up what I'm sure was one of the first Sage Barista Express machines in the UK. They hadn't even been put to market when I managed to acquire it from a product tester. Not knowing that quality grind, and fresh beans was so important I just made average coffees for years using supermarket beans, while never really getting the pressure levels right when pulling the shots. This got sold as frothing milk was always painstakingly slow and I went for a delonghi eletta bean to cup with milk frother. Another bad buy as the milk based drinks this made were truly awful. I was offered the oracle in May this year and I've really enjoyed the quality of the drinks that I make with it, and this is what started the desire for even better.

The last few weeks I've been all up into buying a new grinder. It started by wanting a sage smart pro and I've ended up buying a Mazzer major electronic! A huge deviation I know.

So now I'm just thinking the sage is a good machine, but I really want to take the journey to real high quality espresso.

Apologies for such a long intro to my post, but I thought it would help highlight the stage that I'm at.

So I'm looking for a machine that is user friendly and simple to operate, but has some very high level features so that as my knowledge and skill grows, the machine does not become redundant and me looking to swap it out so quickly.

Machines that have caught my eye so far-

Lelit Mara x

Fracino Classic

Rocket Cronometro

In terms of features, most is just jargon which I am learning as I go, but I'm presuming PID is important.

Just looking for recommendations or advice on what sort of level to look at, and any particular machines that I should consider.

Budget wise somewhere between £1000-£2000, assuming I can sell my Oracle for £900-£1000.

All opinions and help is much appreciated.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

, none of those machines mingt offer and significant difference in the cup to the oracle , if you run the oracle using manual stop and scales . Yes the will have more stem power but don't expect some wow difference int he espresso they make with the major .


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

So essentially the grinder for the oracle is the main thing that lets it down? By upgrading the grinder I should be able to pull far better shots?


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)




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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Karka said:


> So essentially the grinder for the oracle is the main thing that lets it down? By upgrading the grinder I should be able to pull far better shots?


 Give it a go, you will need a new tamper to use with the separate grinder, the stock basket on the Oracle is 22g do dont dose too much under that.

You could get yourself a new 18g basket from VST if you want to use less coffee.

Oracle is very temp stable , perhaps more so than the E61's . Use scales, weigh in and out .

Temp wise the Oracle will be a lot more stable than the Fracino or Rocket as these are Hx machines

Versus the Lelit , you'd get more steam power, but will swapping to an e61 make much difference , I'd so no.

I ran an older oracle with a niche for a while , changing it out for a Bianca for flow control in the end, it made great coffee.


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Give it a go, you will need a new tamper to use with the separate grinder, the stock basket on the Oracle is 22g do dont dose too much under that.
> 
> You could get yourself a new 18g basket from VST if you want to use less coffee.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the info.

I already had a new tamper on the way, a calibrated one so I can get the feel of the pressure required. I've now ordered an IMS basket as I couldn't find the VST basket I needed for next day delivery before Xmas. Is there much difference between IMS and VST? I can buy another after Xmas.

Hopefully everything arrives tomorrow so I can spend my few days off dialling in and seeing what results I get with the sage.

I was kind of just looking for an excuse to spend some money on a new machine, so am still interested in opinions of the best way to go for me.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Karka said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I already had a new tamper on the way, a calibrated one so I can get the feel of the pressure required. I've now ordered an IMS basket as I couldn't find the VST basket I needed for next day delivery before Xmas. Is there much difference between IMS and VST? I can buy another after Xmas.
> 
> ...


 Spend what you like, just don't do it on the proviso that it is going to make a fantastic difference to the espresso you make 

If you want a big piece of shined metal go for it, but get one that wil at least be equal in terms of what it foes in the cup, the rockets may look like professional machines, but it is still a hex machine with all the foibles that can bring.

Better coffee , little better technique , learn in what you have got .

I'd stay as you are , get to grips with making espresso manually, then save up and make a significant upgrade of a machine . A double boiler that you can add flow profiling to , why spend £1200 on something when you could learn a but more , buy once and get something that will see through the next bit of the rabbit holes.

The Fracino for sure is a duffer of a machine in Temp stability, and i would into recommend one , the Rocket is shiny but again in terms of temp stability is a backward step , it will have more steam power .


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Spend what you like, just don't do it on the proviso that it is going to make a fantastic difference to the espresso you make
> 
> Better coffee , little better technique will,.


 Haha yep I'm realising that after all these years making average coffee.

that's what I'll do. I will keep an eye out for any deals on machines in the meantime. Thanks for you help.



Mrboots2u said:


> I'd stay as you are , get to grips with making espresso manually, then save up and make a significant upgrade of a machine . A double boiler that you can add flow profiling to
> 
> The Fracino for sure is a duffer of a machine in Temp stability, and i would into recommend one , the Rocket is shiny but again in terms of temp stability is a backward step , it will have more steam power .


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