# Monitoring brew temperature on an E61 group head



## centaursailing

My interest in knowing the brewing temperature in the grouphead of my Isomac Tea was raised in these forums from discussions about brewing temperatures. I did a little google search and learned about an enterprising chap in the USA who has designed his own adaptor and fitted an adaptor and digital thermometer to his E61 group head. This provides a continual readout of temperature during the cooling flush giving more certainty that the temperature actually used is suitable for brewing espresso coffee. I say 'enterprising' because he has them up for sale and has (around the world) now sold well over 2,000 units. Each unit comes ready for installation. The process for fitting the adaptor and thermometer involves the removal of the M6 x 8 allen-head screw in the front of the group head and its replacement with the custom-made adaptor which takes either a digital thermometer or a thermocouple.









I'm inspired to fit one of these to my own Isomac Tea and just in case it catches anyone else's interest as well, here's the link to his main article:

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/monitoring-brew-temperature-e61-silvia-t1352.html

He refers to certain explanatory documents, DigThermAdptr6.pdf is a good place to start. Here's the link:

http://users.rcn.com/erics/

I also came across an article where someone describe how they made their own, but I think it's way beyond my own skills:

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/no-more-guesswork-naked-truth-of-e61-temperature-revealed-t319.html

I hope it inspires others as well


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## marcuswar

I've had Eric's e61 thermoprobe in my coffee bookmarks for a few months and funnily enough was rereading about them myself this very weekend. There is also a thread somewhere about someone who fitted one and suffered a bad scolds when he didn't tighten it up enough and it shot out while pulling a shot and hit him with a jet of hot water!

Last time I checked it looked like the cost of buying one and importing it was around £80-90

If you fancy combining postage costs you might be able to persuade me to join in an order


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## Sofmonk

I had the thermoprobe installed on my last e61 machine and will definitely recommend. Helps a lot to do your warming/ cooling flush accurately. Installing is very easy if you follow the instructions carefully...


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> I've had Eric's e61 thermoprobe in my coffee bookmarks for a few months and funnily enough was rereading about them myself this very weekend. There is also a thread somewhere about someone who fitted one and suffered a bad scolds when he didn't tighten it up enough and it shot out while pulling a shot and hit him with a jet of hot water!
> 
> Last time I checked it looked like the cost of buying one and importing it was around £80-90
> 
> If you fancy combining postage costs you might be able to persuade me to join in an order


Coincidence or what Marcus. I'd be happy to link up with you in a joint order. I do have a PayPal account but I'd prefer not to use it if possible (because it's a business account), do you have one we could use and I could bank transfer the necessary to you?


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## centaursailing

Sofmonk said:


> I had the thermoprobe installed on my last e61 machine and will definitely recommend. Helps a lot to do your warming/ cooling flush accurately. Installing is very easy if you follow the instructions carefully...


Thanks Sofmonk that's just the sort of encouraging feedback I was hoping for!


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## marcuswar

centaursailing said:


> Coincidence or what Marcus. I'd be happy to link up with you in a joint order. I do have a PayPal account but I'd prefer not to use it if possible, do you have one we could use and I could bank transfer the necessary to you?


Lol.. I'm beginning to think we're stalking each other









Yes I do have a PayPal account although in general I prefer to use the credit card directly as there is more protection . Either way I don't mind taking the primary role and handling the ordering if you're OK with that?


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## marcuswar

Sofmonk said:


> I had the thermoprobe installed on my last e61 machine and will definitely recommend. Helps a lot to do your warming/ cooling flush accurately. Installing is very easy if you follow the instructions carefully...


Thanks sofmonk, did you buy it direct from Eric ?


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## Sofmonk

I bought it from chris coffees https://www.chriscoffee.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=39495


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## marcuswar

Thanks Sofmonk. I seem to remember there wasn't much (if any) difference in price between ordering from Chris coffee or direct from Eric. I'll have to have another look and see.


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> Lol.. I'm beginning to think we're stalking each other
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I do have a PayPal account although in general I prefer to use the credit card directly as there is more protection . Either way I don't mind taking the primary role and handling the ordering if you're OK with that?


Sounds good to me, thanks Marcus


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## marcuswar

OK Rod, leave it with for a bit and I'll find out more regarding prices , delivery costs , possible import costs, timescales etc...

...watch this space


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## urbanbumpkin

I was looking at these too a couple of months ago. I'd be potentially interested what these cost in at.


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## marcuswar

According to his ftp site the cost of a thermometer kit is $104 + $32 postage so $136 in total which works out about £80. Although this doesn't include any provision for it getting stopped at customs and incurring import duty and vat etc.

I've now emailed Eric to get some more details on combined postage costs etc.


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## urbanbumpkin

marcuswar said:


> According to his ftp site the cost of a thermometer kit is $104 + $32 postage so $136 in total which works out about £80. Although this doesn't include any provision for it getting stopped at customs and incurring import duty and vat etc.
> 
> I've now emailed Eric to get some more details on combined postage costs etc.


Thanks Marcus, let me know how you get on.


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## marcuswar

Will do urban... watch this space


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## marcuswar

OK, Eric has replied to my email.

The postal cost of $32 is per order, however the maximum number of kits that can fit into a single delivery box is 3.

International orders are sent via USPS and take 6-10 days to arrive, but are not trackable once they leave the US.

If 1 person ordered then the cost would be approximately £80.

If 2 people ordered then the cost would be approximately £71 + the cost of UK delivery.

If 3 people ordered then the cost would be approximately £68 + the cost of UK delivery.

If the parcel was to incur import duty and VAT then that may well add a further £20-25 onto the price.


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## urbanbumpkin

Cheers Marcus, so worst case would be £93 plus UK post. I'll have a read up on them today and will let you know.


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## ronsil

I had one of those direct from Eric when I had an Izzo Vivi Mk1 (pre PID)

They do work well. Eric makes available some very detailed instructions on how to use them.

Suggest strongly you follow his instructions to get the best out of the thermometer.

Piece of cake to fit but need to be very careful with the depth of insertion.


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## Wobin19

Hi, if Urbanbumpkin decides not to go-ahead I would be up for this.


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## marcuswar

urbanbumpkin said:


> Cheers Marcus, so worst case would be £93 plus UK post. I'll have a read up on them today and will let you know.


Yes urban, approximately.. but its difficult to be exact because it's difficult to establish exactly what duty they would incur. Obviously VAT is easy at 20% of the total value (inc postage) but the duty is dependent upon what C&E classify it as. There is also the question of how much the UK delivery firm would charge as an "administration fee".

Having said this, I have received a fair few USPS deliveries in the past and have never incurred any extra charges yet, but no promises.


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## marcuswar

Wobin19 said:


> Hi, if Urbanbumpkin decides not to go-ahead I would be up for this.


OK Wobin, duly noted.

Its only £3 difference between ordering 2 or 3 so it may well be feasible to do as 2 orders of 2 if no one else express an interest.


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## aphelion

Hiya mate, i'll take one of these if you need a 3rd person?

Cheers

Andy


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## marcuswar

Nothing is definite yet but your interest is duly noted aphelion.


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> OK, Eric has replied to my email.
> 
> The postal cost of $32 is per order, however the maximum number of kits that can fit into a single delivery box is 3.
> 
> International orders are sent via USPS and take 6-10 days to arrive, but are not trackable once they leave the US.
> 
> If 1 person ordered then the cost would be approximately £80.
> 
> If 2 people ordered then the cost would be approximately £71 + the cost of UK delivery.
> 
> If 3 people ordered then the cost would be approximately £68 + the cost of UK delivery.
> 
> If the parcel was to incur import duty and VAT then that may well add a further £20-25 onto the price.


Nice work Marcus, I think I saw that the lead time is 4-6 weeks.

Funny how it works, taking loads of time in research and consideration - no pressure at all, then suddenly: once the buying decision is made you can't wait!

As an afterthought, did you ask if each buyer be named so that Eric will know who we are and what we've bought for guarantee purposes?


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## urbanbumpkin

Hi Marcus,

These seem to get a good write up on Home Barista. It would be good to get an idea of what's happening with the machine temp wise pre and post flush.

So I think I'm up for getting one


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## marcuswar

centaursailing said:


> Nice work Marcus, I think I saw that the lead time is 4-6 weeks.
> 
> Funny how it works, taking loads of time in research and consideration - no pressure at all, then suddenly: once the buying decision is made you can't wait!
> 
> As an afterthought, did you ask if each buyer be named so that Eric will know who we are and what we've bought for guarantee purposes?


Eric says lead time is currently a few days but he's just received an order for 25 from his US distributed (Chris coffee ?) so there may be a slight delay.

If he uses USPS priority mail international he can send as many as we want for $60. So I guess 6 or above makes this method cheaper.

I'm currently trying to establish how much duty, if any, these would attract if they got caught at customs.

One thing I hadn't factored in to my last price was PayPal currency conversion fees.

Good call about naming each buyer for warranty purposes.


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## marcuswar

I've tried to negotiate a "bulk" discount with Eric but failed







The only advantage to us in ordering together is the saving on the combined postage i.e. the $32. Eric says he will only accept responsibility for the package up to it leaving the USA and I've so far been unable to establish conclusively if the tracking continues once in the UK. Having said that he says he's only had one package "lost" in 5 years.. and that was 5 years ago.

Costs;

Kit : $104

postage : $32 (for up to 3 kits) or $60 for more than 3 kits

PayPal currency conversion fee : 4%

import duty : 3.2% (http://www.dutycalculator.com/hs-lookup/197954/hs-tariff-code-for-digital-thermometer/)

VAT : 20%

ParcelForce (UK delivery partner fro USPS) clearing fee : £13.50 (or possibly only £8)



*
**So 3 kits ordered would be (*all calculations have been rounded up to whole pounds throughout*) ;*

$104 x 3 = $312 + $32 = $344 = (approx.) £*201*

add on paypal conversion fees (£8) to gives a total of £*209*

*
*import duty : (£7.31) = £*217*

VAT (£43.36) = £*261*

*
*ParcelForce fee (£13.50) = £*275*

*
Individual total cost : £92 each (plus local postage) (*if no duty or VAT applied then £75*) *

*So 6 kits ordered would be **(*all calculations have been rounded up to whole pounds throughout*)**;*

*
*$104 x 6 = $624+ $60= $684= (approx.) £*399*

add on paypal conversion fees (£15.91) to gives a total of £*415*

*
*import duty : (£14.51) = £*430*

VAT (£85.92) = £*516*

*
*ParcelForce fee (£13.50) = £*530*

*
Individual total cost : £89 each (plus local postage) **(*if no duty or VAT applied then £72*) *

*
*

7 kits would be £87

8 kits would be £86

10 kits would be £85

The biggest unknown factor in the above calculations is the dollar to sterling exchange rate so the costs may vary by a few pounds.

Given the above I'm thinking that maybe the best course of action is to simply buddy up and order in pairs or triples, thereby spreading the risk.

Alternatively does anyone know of anyone taking a trip to the USA soon? We could have them delivered locally to them and they could bring them back for us in hand luggage


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## Wobin19

Ok I am still in for this. Thanks for your efforts!


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## marcuswar

OK, so we will be ordering 5 kits from Eric... shame we couldn't make it 6 but at least its not 4 which actually puts the price UP from 3 (because of the higher postage costs)!

Still a nice saving on ordering individually, as according to my calculations a single person ordering one would be looking at around £119 including duty & VAT etc.


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## Wobin19

Great. Cheers again for all your efforts. Looking forward to giving this a go. I am not a technical type so could be a challenge!


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## marcuswar

No worries Wobin









Take care when fitting it and follow the instructions carefully... if you get it wrong it can be quite dangerous !

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/erics-e61-thermometer-2nd-degree-burn-t21918.html


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## Daren

marcuswar said:


> OK, so we will be ordering 5 kits from Eric... shame we couldn't make it 6 but at least its not 4 which actually puts the price UP from 3 (because of the higher postage costs)!
> 
> Still a nice saving on ordering individually, as according to my calculations a single person ordering one would be looking at around £119 including duty & VAT etc.


,.........................


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## urbanbumpkin

marcuswar said:


> OK, so we will be ordering 5 kits from Eric... shame we couldn't make it 6 but at least its not 4 which actually puts the price UP from 3 (because of the higher postage costs)!
> 
> Still a nice saving on ordering individually, as according to my calculations a single person ordering one would be looking at around £119 including duty & VAT etc.


Excellent Marcus, great effort in organising this. If there is anyone else that wants to order an E61 thermometer then they need to get in quick as Marcus is pulling the trigger tonight.


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## marcuswar

Daren said:


> ---Quote (Originally by marcuswar)---
> 
> OK, so we will be ordering 5 kits from
> 
> Eric... shame we couldn't make it 6 but at least its not 4 which actually puts
> 
> the price UP from 3 (because of the higher postage costs)!
> 
> Still a nice
> 
> saving on ordering individually, as according to my calculations a single person
> 
> ordering one would be looking at around £119 including duty & VAT
> 
> etc.
> 
> ---End Quote---
> 
> What would the price per person be if it went up to
> 
> 6?


Darren ,

The cost of ordering 5 is actually about £1 each dearer each than ordering 3, whereas the cost for going to 6 (from5) decreases the individual costs by about £3 ;

*So 6 kits ordered would be **(*all calculations have been rounded up to whole pounds throughout*)**;*$104 x 6 = $624+ $60= $684= (approx.) £*399*

add on paypal conversion fees (£15.91) to gives a total of £*415*

*
*import duty : (£14.51) = £*430*

VAT (£85.92) = £*516*

*
*ParcelForce fee (£13.50) = £*530*

*
Individual total cost : £89 each (plus local postage) **(*if no duty or VAT applied then £72*) *



*
*more interestingly would be that it would open up the possibility of placing the order as two separate orders to spread the risk, if both got stopped for duty/VAT then the unit cost would be £92 but if only one got stopped then it would work out cheaper (around £83).

I think orders of 3 are actually easier for Eric to send as well as he can use a standard USPS cardboard box rather than having to find a box of the right size.

As I've said these are prices are only approximate as it will depend on exchange rates at the time the order is placed and what rate of duty is actually applied.


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## Daren

Thanks Marcus - I'm really interested but it's a bit too much for me at the moment (just bought some coffee stuff and the misses would go mad if I added this on right now).

Shame we can't get them for the same price as the Yanks - I'd be all over it then.


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## marcuswar

No worries Darren.

Of course we *can *get the same price as our American cousins.... it just involves someone jumping on plane and bringing them back for us


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## Daren

marcuswar said:


> No worries Darren.
> 
> Of course we *can *get the same price as our American cousins.... it just involves someone jumping on plane and bringing them back for us


Any volunteers?? Go-on - I'll buy you a Lavazza


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## urbanbumpkin

marcuswar said:


> I think orders of 3 are actually easier for Eric to send as well as he can use a standard USPS cardboard box rather than having to find a box of the right size.


If it works out to the same postage cost. Its probably worth him sending it in 2 separate standard USPS parcels.

Splits the risk too.


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## marcuswar

It works out $4 more to send as two parcels i.e. $32 x 2 as opposed to $60 for one, but there is also the £13.50 (potential) charge by Parcelforce that would be levied on each parcel if caught by customs.

It's all "if, buts and maybes" so not really worth worrying about really, as I said earlier, at least there are 5 of us rather than 4


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## marcuswar

As you say Urban, the main attraction of sending as two separate packages would be mitigation of some of the risk of a lost package, although you could argue the sending of two packages increases the risk of at least one package going missing. Also if one package went astray and one arrived , who decides who is a winner and who is a loser?

Arghh... my brain is starting to hurt


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## urbanbumpkin

Sorry to confuse matters Marcus, go with original plan of the single parcel.


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## marcuswar

Just to let everyone know, the trigger has been pulled... so no turning back now folk, we are committed









Eric's preference is to send as two packages as he can use two standard USPS international postage boxes rather than having to find a suitable box that will hold 5 kits. If both boxes get stopped at customs an incur Parcelforce's fee then this will increase our individual charges slightly. I've asked if there is anyway he can send as a single package then it would be much appreciated.


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## aphelion

marcuswar said:


> Just to let everyone know, the trigger has been pulled... so no turning back now folk, we are committed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eric's preference is to send as two packages as he can use two standard USPS international postage boxes rather than having to find a suitable box that will hold 5 kits. If both boxes get stopped at customs an incur Parcelforce's fee then this will increase our individual charges slightly. I've asked if there is anyway he can send as a single package then it would be much appreciated.


Cheers Marcus


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## marcuswar

No worries Andy, I'll keep you posted of progress via this thread.

Eric also wanted to know what machines we are all intending to use the thermometers on. I've taken the details from everyone's signature so I hope this is correct, if not let me know and I'll pass the information onto Eric.


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## urbanbumpkin

Cheers Marcus, mines a QM Andreja Premium


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## marcuswar

Thanks for the conformation urban.


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## marcuswar

Just had confirmation that Eric has found a suitable box and the order will be sent as a single package after all


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## Wobin19

Good work Marcus!


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## marcuswar

Just to confirm to everyone that the payment after currency conversion and paypal fees by has worked out at £357.19 GBP, so that works out at £71.44 each so far.

The final cost is now down to import duty ,VAT and ParcelForce charges.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE : Eric has posted the package and it's in transit to us









Estimated delivery is 6-10 working days.


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## urbanbumpkin

Excellent Marcus quicker than I thought. I'm on annual leave as of 4th Aug so it might be worth sending it to my home address.

Nice meeting you at the Weekend.


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## aphelion

marcuswar said:


> UPDATE : Eric has posted the package and it's in transit to us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Estimated delivery is 6-10 working days.


Nice one Marcus









Cheers

Andy


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## marcuswar

urbanbumpkin said:


> Excellent Marcus quicker than I thought. I'm on annual leave as of 4th Aug so it might be worth sending it to my home address.
> 
> Nice meeting you at the Weekend.


OK Clive, I'll confirm with you exactly which address you want it sent once it actually arrives.

Like wise Clive, its nice to put actual faces and voices to these disembodied personalities that we all chat to on the forums









UPDATE: the package has now "processed through USPS Sorting facility at Capitol Heights" so its getting closer guys...


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## Wobin19

Marvellous that's quicker than I was expecting too.


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## marcuswar

I know Robin, it's fun watching its progress









The UPSP tracking system is very nice as it lets you register an email address on a parcel so that they can emails you at each stage of its journey... just before I left work I got an email to say it had "left the sorting office (earlier in the day) and was on route"


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## marcuswar

UPDATE : our package has now processed through the sorting facility at ISC Chicago IL. I think this means it through airport security and should be on a plane flying over the pond very soon.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: our package has landed in the UK and is currently awaiting Customs clearance at the airport.

Also the tracking number works on the Parcel Force tracking site so it's still trackable now its here in the UK


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## aphelion

Thanks for the updates Marcus, sounds like its very close now

those customs peeps can take their time though...


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## marcuswar

So close and yet still so far....

...I'll keep an eye on it and let you all know when it eventually breaks free of those customs trolls


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: the package is now showing as "Awaiting Customs Charging" so I guess we can forget the forlorn hope that we may get away without incurring any duty charge... oh well, at least they have a vested interest in not losing it now


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## urbanbumpkin

Might catch them in a good mood........?









What happens now do you get a card in the post or an email with the what the charges will be?


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## marcuswar

I'm not sure Clive, in the past I've just had a card through and paid at the depot but their website now says you can pay online so maybe they do state the charges on the card they leave. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.


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## marcuswar

Just had a mooch around the Parcel Force site and found this ;



> If you are the recipient in the UK, you should have received a letter from us detailing the charges the UK Border Force (for UK import items) wish to raise and how they can be paid. You now need to pay these charges and our automated system will recognise when you've done this and schedule the delivery for the following working day.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: Our package has now escaped from customs (with as yet unknown charges) and has been "Received and processed at the National Hub" at 06:50am this morning. Hopefully I should know in the next day or so how much we have been charged.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: The status of the parcel is now "Received at depot, Awaiting payment of charges"... it would be nice if they said how much on the webpage but I'll guess I'll have to wait for the card through the door. Concidering that last status was changed at 1:21am this morning I'm guessing I won't be getting the card in todays post, so probably tomorrow evening by the time I know.


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## ronsil

If you have to pay in at your local sorting office remember to take cash (real money). no cards.

My sorting office only take exact cash & are unable to give change.


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## marcuswar

Thanks Ron, I think I remember falling foul of that a few years ago... not fun after making a special trip and queuing up for 1/2 an hour .. grrr....

According to Parcel Force's website they take payment on-line and once paid they then attempt delivery, so things have moved on.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: Good news guys, the letter from Parcelforce has arrived and we have actually avoided any duty and only got charged the VAT (£31.35) and also Parcelforce have only charged us £8 for clearance rather than the expected £13.50









My spreadsheet is on my works PC so I'll confirm the exact costs when I get in work tomorrow.


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## aphelion

marcuswar said:


> UPDATE: Good news guys, the letter from Parcelforce has arrived and we have actually avoided any duty and only got charged the VAT (£31.35) and also Parcelforce have only charged us £8 for clearance rather than the expected £13.50
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My spreadsheet is on my works PC so I'll confirm the exact costs when I get in work tomorrow.


Nice one Marcus


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## urbanbumpkin

Excellent, sounds good!


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## marcuswar

Good news indeed, only fly in the ointment is that I'm away now until Monday evening so they wont be delivered to me until next week sometime.


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## marcuswar

Update: OK according to my calculations it looks like the final price will be *£82.80 *including onward postage (2nd class small package rate) but I need to confirm the exact size of each thermometer kit once I get the package.


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## jeebsy

aphelion said:


> Nice one Marcus


Are you planning to use it with your Brewtus?


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## aphelion

jeebsy said:


> Are you planning to use it with your Brewtus?


Yeah, i'm not getting good correlation between boiler and group temperatures, so it just made sense to try one of these out.

I don't follow flushing cycles too religiously either, so its hopefully going to improve the consistency of my shots!









Dunno how accurate these things are however....


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## jeebsy

Much cheaper than a scace I suppose


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## marcuswar

I think they are accurate enough for using as a baseline for making adjustment from i.e. they provide a consistency to aid repeatability. If actual temperature accuracy was your big concern you should probably have ordered a thermocouple adapter kit so you could fit a thermocouple instead of the thermometer


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> Update: OK according to my calculations it looks like the final price will be *£82.80 *including onward postage (2nd class small package rate) but I need to confirm the exact size of each thermometer kit once I get the package.


What great news to get on my return from holiday. Thanks for all you've done on this Marcus!


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## marcuswar

You're welcome, I trust you had a very pleasant cruise.


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> You're welcome, I trust you had a very pleasant cruise.


Great thanks, Iceland has some great scenery which we thoroughly enjoyed. One tour guide described it as a pimple of an island on the mid atlantic ridge! They describe temperatures in excess of 20C as a heatwave, all while the UK really did experience a heatwave.


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## marcuswar

Yes we did have a mini heatwave, although you seem to have brought the colder (rainy) weather back with you..


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: Paid the charges on line last Thursday and scheduled for delivery on last Friday. Website is still showing as "HELD" and "Delivery Scheduled". Strange how it can make it all the way from the USA to the UK quicker than it can the last 10miles from the UK depot to my house! Got back from a long weekend break yesterday and still no attempted delivery from ParcelForce so had to ring them this morning. All very apologetic and now scheduled for delivery for tomorrow... although I'm not holding my breath! The chances are that no one will be in so it will still then involve a trip into Manchester to pick it up.


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## urbanbumpkin

Thanks for the update Marcus.


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> UPDATE: Paid the charges on line last Thursday and scheduled for delivery on last Friday. Website is still showing as "HELD" and "Delivery Scheduled". Strange how it can make it all the way from the USA to the UK quicker than it can the last 10miles from the UK depot to my house! Got back from a long weekend break yesterday and still no attempted delivery from ParcelForce so had to ring them this morning. All very apologetic and now scheduled for delivery for tomorrow... although I'm not holding my breath! The chances are that no one will be in so it will still then involve a trip into Manchester to pick it up.


Thanks for the update and all you've been doing on this for us Marcus, it's much appreciated.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: The thermometers have finally arrived !

Can everyone pm me to confirm where they want me to send their package to


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## marcuswar

Oh , forgot to say, the final cost is £82.80 each so I'll be issuing everyone with £17.20 refund on their initial £100 deposit.


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## urbanbumpkin

Thank again Marcus for organising this one.


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## marcuswar

No worries Clive









Can everyone also pm me the bank details that they would like me to send their £17.20 refund to. Thanks


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: Rod has requested I send his by recorded delivery, i.e. signed for, which also includes increased compensation cover of £50. This costs £3.90 (instead of £2.80) and to keep things simple for me I'm going to send them all by this method, I hope that's OK with everyone. I've found some nice small cardboard boxes that should be just the right size for small package rate and should protect them very nicely, better than a jiffy bag at any rate


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## aphelion

marcuswar said:


> UPDATE: Rod has requested I send his by recorded delivery, i.e. signed for, which also includes increased compensation cover of £50. This costs £3.90 (instead of £2.80) and to keep things simple for me I'm going to send them all by this method, I hope that's OK with everyone. I've found some nice small cardboard boxes that should be just the right size for small package rate and should protect them very nicely, better than a jiffy bag at any rate


Sounds good cheers


----------



## marcuswar

UPDATE: "The Chickens have flown the Coop"









aphelion - posted

centaursailing -posted

urbanbumpkin - posted

wobin19 - waiting for your return from holiday before posting.

all posted 2nd class small package recorded delivery - £3.90 - expected delivery 2-3 days


----------



## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> UPDATE: "The Chickens have flown the Coop"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> aphelion - posted
> 
> centaursailing -posted
> 
> urbanbumpkin - posted
> 
> wobin19 - waiting for your return from holiday before posting.
> 
> all posted 2nd class small package recorded delivery - £3.90 - expected delivery 2-3 days


Thanks Marcus. Looking forward to fitting mine and seeing how everyone else gets on.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Arrived this morning! Not sure when I'm going to get a chance to fit it.

Thanks Marcus


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## marcuswar

Your more than welcome Clive, thanks for letting me know it arrived safely, 1 down 2 to go.. (not forgetting wobin19's to be sent later)

I'm in the same position... no idea when I'll get around to fitting it! I need to sort my OPV out first as the pressure gauge has been bouncing around like mad the last few weeks. I'm not sure if its air in the capillary tube or the OPV itself misbehaving as some days are worse than others. I don't want to change more than one thing at a time as you then never know what affected any individual change caused.


----------



## aphelion

Cheers Marcus, just received this morning!

Took the plunge and installed..really happy with it so far









Thanks for organising it so successfully

Cheers


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## marcuswar

WOW congratulations Andy, I'm really glad it arrived safely and you're happy with it. You've shamed us all with you're "go get it" attitude







Do you have any tips on fitting it ?

Are you still "playing" or have you found its actually helped change your routine yet ?


----------



## jeebsy

aphelion said:


> Cheers Marcus, just received this morning!
> 
> Took the plunge and installed..really happy with it so far
> 
> View attachment 8571
> 
> 
> Thanks for organising it so successfully
> 
> Cheers


Did you find your machine was offset correctly?


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## DavecUK

Do you use these for readings during the shot, or just for readings when doing the flush...no portafilter with coffee loaded?

edit: I guess I'm asking in relation to dual boiler machines


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## aphelion

Cheers - still early days with the thermometer..so far I've installed and checked for leakages (don't want a face full of 94C water).

Everything good fingers crossed (just followed the PDF). So far the 2 readings PID/thermometer are quite different...not sure whether the same flushing technique for HX will apply to Double Boiler.. Any thoughts?


----------



## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> Your more than welcome Clive, thanks for letting me know it arrived safely, 1 down 2 to go.. (not forgetting wobin19's to be sent later)
> 
> I'm in the same position... no idea when I'll get around to fitting it! I need to sort my OPV out first as the pressure gauge has been bouncing around like mad the last few weeks. I'm not sure if its air in the capillary tube or the OPV itself misbehaving as some days are worse than others. I don't want to change more than one thing at a time as you then never know what affected any individual change caused.


Postie has arrived bearing my thermometer and adaptor. All looks good and plan to start the installation tomorrow.

Thanks Marcus, great job!


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## marcuswar

Thanks for the confirmation of delivery Rod, I can breath easy now they've all arrived safely









*A big thanks to all you guys* for being so trusting and sending a complete stranger your hard earned money and trusting him to send you the goods.


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## marcuswar

jeebsy said:


> Did you find your machine was offset correctly?


My understanding is that the Indicated Celsius reading is approx 1.25 degrees C hotter than at the puck in the PF, so looking at aphelion's picture the thermometer is reading 91.7 so that would equate to a puck temperature of 90.45. The PD temperature looks to be set at 94 degrees but we don't know who long the machine has been standing idle so its difficult to draw any conclusions. I guess the only way to tell would be to draw a shot and monitor the peak temperature of the water flow.


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## marcuswar

DavecUK said:


> Do you use these for readings during the shot, or just for readings when doing the flush...no portafilter with coffee loaded?


Hi DavecUK, the thermometer is mainly on use with HX machines so that you can ascertain the actual amount of flush you need to do to maintain a consistent temperature across multiple shots. The amount of flush required varies with the amount of time the machine as been left idle between shots.

As I understand it (and this is only from reading information on the net as I haven't fitted mine yet) there are 2 different approaches to its use;

(1) The usual 'water dance' method where approx 5ozs/20 seconds of water is pulled through the empty brew head. The temperature at the probe should show a falling temperature as the head is cooled down. Once the desired temperature is reached load & lock the PF (wait approx 10 seconds) & lift the lever to pull the shot. The temp will then rise and spike and then fall again until the shot is completion. The brew cycle is taking place during a falling temp at the puck and gives you the max and min temperatures and hence an average can be calculated. By varying the amount of flush at the start the begin/end/average temperature can be adjusted.

(2) is longer. Load & tamp the portafilter and keep ready, then pull a cooling flush to a temperature lower than you want e.g. 92 degrees. Load Portafilter and watch as the temperature will spikes up immediately then slowly drops back before beginning to rise once again - 'Reverse Thermosyphon Action'. At this point as the temperature is starting to rise the shot should be pulled. During the time it takes to pull the shot the thermometer should show a steady temperature reading.

With both these methods the thermometer allows for a known starting temperature to be obtained by varying the amount of flush at the start.


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## DavecUK

marcuswar said:


> Hi DavecUK, the thermometer is mainly on use with HX machines so that you can ascertain the actual amount of flush you need to do to maintain a consistent temperature across multiple shots. The amount of flush required varies with the amount of time the machine as been left idle between shots.


Yes, this was my understanding and I have read Erics Instructions before and ensure I reread the latest version. Eric doesn't say very much about dual boilers or have any results for them in his instructions. It's just that I saw one on a Brewtus II and when asked about whether their Offset was correct they replied.



> My understanding is that the Indicated Celsius reading is approx 1.25 degrees C hotter than at the puck in the PF, so looking at aphelion's picture the thermometer is reading 91.7 so that would equate to a puck temperature of 90.45. The PD temperature looks to be set at 94 degrees but we don't know who long the machine has been standing idle so its difficult to draw any conclusions. I guess the only way to tell would be to draw a shot and monitor the peak temperature of the water flow.


now admittedly they didn't post a key piece of information, what their offset was on the PID, so the remark is in no sort of context at all. however I am curious.


----------



## centaursailing

centaursailing said:


> Postie has arrived bearing my thermometer and adaptor. All looks good and plan to start the installation tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks Marcus, great job!


Eric's instructions are really, really good. What I particularly liked was the ability to work from the first and more detailed set (on my smartphone) while doing the installation and then before proceeding further, use the summary instructions at the end of the document as a double check. It's installed now and we've had the first couple of shots using it but I have to confess although I could monitor the temperature I've got a lot to learn yet in order to get the temperature control. First step seems to be learning the temperature characteristics of my (now with insulated boiler) machine before, during and after a shot (I often pull an extra shot for my wife), but it's fun because it's interesting and will hopefully lead me to the consistency I desire.


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## ronsil

When I had one of these on my Vivi 1 I found that you needed to follow Eric's detailed directions exactly.

They are rather different to normal 'temp surfing'. Took a bit of getting used to but great resource in the end.


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## marcuswar

UPDATE: Just to confirm to everyone that I have just issued the refunds (£16.10) to everyone so check your bank account


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## marcuswar

DavecUK said:


> Yes, this was my understanding and I have read Erics Instructions before and ensure I reread the latest version. Eric doesn't say very much about dual boilers or have any results for them in his instructions. It's just that I saw one on a Brewtus II and when asked about whether their Offset was correct they replied.
> 
> now admittedly they didn't post a key piece of information, what their offset was on the PID, so the remark is in no sort of context at all. however I am curious.


Yes Dave, I think the usefulness of the thermometer on a dual boiler is somewhat limited as the water temperature will be better controlled to start with, but as you said it should give a better indication of where to set the PID offset to display the water temperature at the puck.


----------



## marcuswar

centaursailing said:


> Eric's instructions are really, really good. What I particularly liked was the ability to work from the first and more detailed set (on my smartphone) while doing the installation and then before proceeding further, use the summary instructions at the end of the document as a double check. It's installed now and we've had the first couple of shots using it but I have to confess although I could monitor the temperature I've got a lot to learn yet in order to get the temperature control. First step seems to be learning the temperature characteristics of my (now with insulated boiler) machine before, during and after a shot (I often pull an extra shot for my wife), but it's fun because it's interesting and will hopefully lead me to the consistency I desire.


Well done Rod, great to hear you've got it fitted with no trouble. Hopefully you'll soon get to know the temperature profile of your machine and it'll help you improve the consistency of your shots. I look forward to hearing more about your progress and comparing it to my own Isomac Tea .... (assuming I get around to fitting mine soon).


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## marcuswar

ronsil said:


> When I had one of these on my Vivi 1 I found that you needed to follow Eric's detailed directions exactly.
> 
> They are rather different to normal 'temp surfing'. Took a bit of getting used to but great resource in the end.


In what way was it different Ron ?

Are you comparing the "standard" flush and go water dance technique with the one where you wait for the 'Reverse Thermosyphon Action' point and then the shot cycle takes place on a rising temp & stays steady during the shot?


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## ronsil

marcuswar said:


> the one where you wait for the 'Reverse Thermosyphon Action' point and then the shot cycle takes place on a rising temp & stays steady during the shot?


Yes, it was very different to what I did before but worked so well as I remember


----------



## marcuswar

Thanks for the confirmation Ron. I'll definitely be using the Reverse Thermosyphon technique when I get fitted


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## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> Thanks for the confirmation Ron. I'll definitely be using the Reverse Thermosyphon technique when I get fitted


All this is a little too simple (definitely not true, it's a joke), luckily Marcus and I have made it all much better and complicated matters by insulating our boilers thereby slowing down the drop in temperature after the cooling flush. Maybe I should say that I think this might be true because I'm not sure, it's just that I'm finding it very difficult to replicate Eric's results using the flush'n'go technique.

2 things have changed for me today: (1) I'm using the Reverse Thermosyphon flush'n'wait technique and (2) After a diversion to some darker coffee with Coffee Compass I've got another batch of Has Bean's Colombia El Meridiano Rioblanco Colombian SC Decaffeinated. The first coffee with the medium roast El Meridiano Rioblanco is encouraging and I wonder if it's the harder bean requiring a longer extraction which seems to be working better with the insulated boiler.


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## ronsil

In case anyone missed it, there is some interesting posts on this subject over on HB



> *Help! Erics thermometer routine & flushing E-61 HX. Am I on right track?*


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## centaursailing

ronsil said:


> In case anyone missed it, there is some interesting posts on this subject over on HB


Thanks Ron, HB was the resource where we found out about Eric's adaptor and thermometer and have the documents delating to flushing different types of HX machines. What I haven't seen yet is any reference to whether insulating the boilder, as Marcus and I have done, makes much difference and if so, what?

As a follow up, today I've continued to reverse thermosyphon flush'n'wait technique and it seems the better technique for me at present as it gives more time to monitor and understanding what's happening.


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## marcuswar

After last nights success with curing my pressure gauge fluctuations I thought I'd fit my thermometer tonight...









...time for a coffee I think


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## centaursailing

Yay, and another one hits the production line!


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## marcuswar

I've made 3 coffee's with it installed so far, although I've not really started to change my routine as yet and am just watching what sort of temperatures I'm currently hitting. To be honest I'm still slightly scared of it shooting out... I'm finding myself subconsciously standing to one side of the machine while pulling a shot









I can definitely see the reverse thermosyphon temperature rebound happening.


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## urbanbumpkin

Fitted mine this evening after a Jack Douglass moment of spannering several parts across the bench.

Seems ok,Ino leaks or steam burns so far (touch wood). I just need to know how to use it properly. Reverse thermosyphon re-bound?


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## Daren

urbanbumpkin said:


> Fitted mine this evening after a Jack Douglass moment of spannering several parts across the bench.
> 
> Seems ok,Ino leaks or steam burns so far (touch wood). I just need to know how to use it properly. Reverse thermosyphon re-bound?


Pictures..... We need pictures.... Show and tell


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## urbanbumpkin

This is just a quick one from this evenings "warm up test".


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## Daren

Looks great Clive - its even got a white face to match the white dials.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with this and to see if it helps you get better espresso


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## marcuswar

Well done Clive, that glass of wine must have helped curb the fear - welcome to the club







By my reckoning that's 4 out of the 5 fitted now... come on Robin you're next.


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## urbanbumpkin

This is my maiden voyage with the Eric's.

This is my usual routine after a 5 sec flush. I usually pull the shot after 30 secs.

This is probably 2mins after the cooling flush (went to find phone).


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## El carajillo

urbanbumpkin said:


> This is just a quick one from this evenings "warm up test".


THAT IS LOOKING A LOT BETTER THAN WHEN I FIRST SAW IT:good:


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## urbanbumpkin

El carajillo said:


> THAT IS LOOKING A LOT BETTER THAN WHEN I FIRST SAW IT:good:


Cheers Frank and very true. It's been re-built so much I'm thinking of naming it "Steve Austin". Not quite 6 million dollars but not far off


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## urbanbumpkin

Or if it has to be female "Danni Minogue". Reworked, petite machine, big dials


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## jeebsy

Dolly parton???


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## Wobin19

Yay I am on it! Here is a pic after the install. It was easy, just need to learn how to use it now. Flush and go seems favoured for the Rocket by Eric. Is it too late for coffee? Mmmmmm....


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## marcuswar

Well done Robin, that's 5 out of 5 fitted now









So far with all my "playing around" I think all I've done is actually make my coffee's worse!


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## urbanbumpkin

how are you using it Marcus?

It turns out my pre-Eric routine (doing a 5 second cooling flush) I was pulling shots according to Eric at 96-97 and it then shoots up to 102 after about 10 secs.

Haven't played about with it enough yet.


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## Wobin19

Yeh, on that basis, I have decided to not change my routine for now and try and monitor what is happening now before I go into the experimentation stages. The monitor seems to be staying in with no sign of any leeks so thats a good start.

There is a suggested routine for my machine of flushing to 205 at the thermometer and pulling shot with no wait. Not sure I understand the logic of that after reading Erics instructions several times. Anyhow I will give it go over the coming days and see what happens.


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## Wobin19

Out of interest Urbanbumpkin, is that the gauge reading or is that adjusted by the 3 degrees he mentions for the temp at the puck?


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## urbanbumpkin

Wobin19 said:


> Out of interest Urbanbumpkin, is that the gauge reading or is that adjusted by the 3 degrees he mentions for the temp at the puck?


It's the gauge that's reading that.


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## urbanbumpkin

Just checked the video clip

First shot was at about 97.5. Does that equate to an actual puck temp of 94.5?


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## Wobin19

According to Eric's instructions it depends on the method you use. For Flush and go its 3F higher at the puck and for Flush and wait (reverse thermo-syphon) 3F lower.

Reading of 97.5 C (207.5F)

Flush and Go 210.5F at puck (98.9 C)

and Flush and wait 204.5F at puck (95.83 C)


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## marcuswar

urbanbumpkin said:


> how are you using it Marcus?
> 
> It turns out my pre-Eric routine (doing a 5 second cooling flush) I was pulling shots according to Eric at 96-97 and it then shoots up to 102 after about 10 secs.
> 
> Haven't played about with it enough yet.


Sound very similar to me Clive.

I've been trying to use the reverse syphon technique but after pulling a cooling shot to get the thermometer down to 93C it takes what feels like absolute age to stabilise out (probably something like 2 minutes). I think I'll try reverting back to the Flush & Go technique tomorrow.

On the plus side I've pretty much gotten over my fear that the thermometer is going to suddenly eject itself from the machine like water powered missile


----------



## centaursailing

marcuswar said:


> Sound very similar to me Clive.
> 
> I've been trying to use the reverse syphon technique but after pulling a cooling shot to get the thermometer down to 93C it takes what feels like absolute age to stabilise out (probably something like 2 minutes). I think I'll try reverting back to the Flush & Go technique tomorrow.
> 
> On the plus side I've pretty much gotten over my fear that the thermometer is going to suddenly eject itself from the machine like water powered missile


Ditto with flush n wait reverse syphon technique: I've been playing with varying the flush between 5 and 8 oz and found there's less waiting with the 5 oz flush. Mine goes down to about 92C as well. I find it a bit disconcerting to carefully wait for 95C only to start the shot and of course the temperature changes quickly to 100C and then falls fairly slowly during the shot sometimes not getting down sufficiently while the shot is pulling. With a medium roast the bean is harder and needing a longer extraction time, it does get there and the average is within a degree of 95C.

I've returned to flush n go and as expected its faster but seems to give better better odds of hitting average of 95C for the first shot, a second shot can be fun though and I'm currently going straight onto it w/o another flush. So far, so good. More info when I've achieved some consistency.


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## jeebsy

I thought you'd just pop this in, see how long a flush you needed and go from there. All this reverse thermosyphon stuff sounds awfully complicated


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## marcuswar

jeebsy said:


> I thought you'd just pop this in, see how long a flush you needed and go from there. All this reverse thermosyphon stuff sounds awfully complicated


Well you sort of do Jeebsy, it's just that it then reveals the very dynamic nature of the temperatures as the brew head recovers. Sometimes ignorance is bliss


----------



## ronsil

What is actually going on in the brew head is very different to what you think is happening.

Eric's thermometer reveals this. To make it work at its best for you the instructions must be learned.

Once you've got the hang of it, its really good & easy to use.


----------



## centaursailing

ronsil said:


> Eric's thermometer reveals this. To make it work at its best for you the instructions must be learned.


I know I'm following the instructions because I've got them in front on me on my smartphone when using the thermometer, so there's really no need to 'learn' them, besides which I've read them countless times now and feel pretty sure Marcus will have done pretty much the same.

What may be a complicating fact, but I can't be sure, is that both Marcus and I have insulated our boilers. Another thing to get used to is when the thermometer shows the temperature has fallen sufficiently (92 or 93C) and the shot is started, mine shoots up to about 101C before starting to fall again and if it is a shorter shot, say 25 secs or slightly less, then it may not quite reach 97C (95C at the puck).


----------



## Wobin19

All good stuff. I stuck with my normal routine over the last few days, with a 40 min warm up, followed by a 2O second flush before breakfast and leave for 10 minutes or so (while I eat my breakfast!) then just a small cup warming flush before brewing. it seems from the thermometer that I have been brewing at around 195 at the puck which is on the cool side (assuming the 198 reading at the thermometer needs to be reduced by 3). Not sure if with this routine if the head is sucking or adding heat.

Any how, I am going to give the flush and go routine a go after the initial warm up. I have also read the instructions numerous times.

I actually think it tastes pretty good already, mostly, but you never know if it should taste better until it does! More consistency has to be a good thing.


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm getting better results with flush and go at the moment.

I'm tempted to try working Fahrenheit as the conversions back to Celsius hurt my head when I'm half asleep and in a hurry.


----------



## centaursailing

urbanbumpkin said:


> I'm tempted to try working Fahrenheit as the conversions back to Celsius hurt my head when I'm half asleep and in a hurry.


It was the same for me but rather than continue trying to convert the temperatures back and forth I've just been clicking the F/C button and the thermometer does the conversion for me in a flash. I'm fairly comfortable only working in C now.

After 3 drinks this morning my flush n go seems to have a fairly predictable pattern. With milk and grinds ready for action after a 6 oz cooling flush, I pop in the PF and start the pull. After an inital peak circa 100C the thermometer reads 98C or just under, i.e. top end of 95C at the puck. By the end of the pull it's reading bottom end of 94C or slightly less at the puck. I reckon this gives me an average of approx 95C at the puck through the shot, the resulting latte tastes really good without a hint of either bitter or sour taste.

The next step in my quest, apart from maintaining consistency with the first shot, will be to see whether I can get the flush n go technique to support 2 extractions, one after the other, with an average 95C at the puck but half expecting the only real option for this will be the flush n wait reverse thermosyphon technique.

More news when I get it!

Please note I'm using 95C, as Charliej points out instead of 93C, because I was using Has Bean's Colombia El Meridiano Rioblanco Colombian SC Decaffeinated which is light and difficult to extract (fine grind and 45 second pull).


----------



## Charliej

95 seems rather high for temp at the puck unless you are using something extremely light and difficult to extract I generally start a new bean off at 93 degrees C and have only had to go to 95 or above a couple of times and that was with a Nordic style roasted bean.


----------



## centaursailing

Charliej said:


> 95 seems rather high for temp at the puck unless you are using something extremely light and difficult to extract I generally start a new bean off at 93 degrees C and have only had to go to 95 or above a couple of times and that was with a Nordic style roasted bean.


Good point Charliej, I'm currently using Has Bean's Colombia El Meridiano Rioblanco Colombian SC Decaffeinated which is light and difficult to extract (45 second pull).

My next batch will be Rave's Sparkling Water Decaf Blend and they recommend (using 20g VST) 20g in, 42g out in 25 to 30 seconds so I expect it won't need grinding so fine as the El Meridiano or the 95C temp at the puck.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

centaursailing said:


> I know I'm following the instructions because I've got them in front on me on my smartphone when using the thermometer, so there's really no need to 'learn' them, besides which I've read them countless times now and feel pretty sure Marcus will have done pretty much the same.
> 
> What may be a complicating fact, but I can't be sure, is that both Marcus and I have insulated our boilers. Another thing to get used to is when the thermometer shows the temperature has fallen sufficiently (92 or 93C) and the shot is started, mine shoots up to about 101C before starting to fall again and if it is a shorter shot, say 25 secs or slightly less, then it may not quite reach 97C (95C at the puck).


I've also insulated my boiler too, the previous old insulation just crumbled. I have noticed that after a couple of flushes the temperature does reduce and stay lower that the 100c, mainly around 95ish.


----------



## soundklinik

urbanbumpkin said:


> I've also insulated my boiler too, the previous old insulation just crumbled. I have noticed that after a couple of flushes the temperature does reduce and stay lower that the 100c, mainly around 95ish.


Hi,

what did you use as insulating material?


----------



## marcuswar

soundklinik said:


> Hi,
> 
> what did you use as insulating material?


I'm not sure what Clive used but Rod and myself used silicone sponge ; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SILICONE-SPONGE-SHEET-A4-SHEET-SIZE-WHITE-16LB-DENSITY-/230688253972?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item35b6176814

When I did mine I used 10mm but it was a bit difficult getting it in so I would recommend using the 5mm instead.


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## urbanbumpkin

soundklinik said:


> Hi,
> 
> what did you use as insulating material?


I used the same stuff as Marcus but the 5mm version


----------



## centaursailing

urbanbumpkin said:


> I used the same stuff as Marcus but the 5mm version


Me too


----------



## soundklinik

Thank you all, it looks like really nice material.

Only available in UK...LOL

I will go for that one too, once I gather some courage to take TEA apart....

An interesting discovery this morning,...I have some extra beans and I started to play around with grinder settings and making double ristrettos and at one point (using naked PF) I was getting these shots that started slowly and then intensified and this rich crema came oozing down and filled the cup and then started "blonding".

Very nice shot(s) that I was never able to do on Silvia...Nice to watch and good tasting too...

Is it because of pre-infusion?

cheers


----------



## marcuswar

I'm sure Silicone Sponge is widely available around the world. It is probably just that seller who only ships within the UK. When I was searching around for a supplier (in the UK) I found quite a few but most wanted to sell it off the roll by the metre which made it quite expensive. If all else fails and you can't find a local supplier then I can always buy a sheet from the UK ebay seller on your behalf and post it on to you.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

I've been having a play with the Erics Thermometer over the last few weeks.

From my interpretation of their guide I've been pulling shots as follows:-

*Flush N Go. Pulling the shot at 95C as the temp is going down which should equate to a puck Temp of 93ish*

*
Flush N Wait. (After doing a flush 10mins prior to doing the shot) Pulling the shot at around 91.5C (197F) as the temp is going back up which is also meant to equate to a puck temp of about 93C (approx. 200F).*

*
*

Is this the general consensus of how to folks are using it?

If I leave my Andreja to warm up for about an hour (idle) the Eric's reads about 100-102C. If I do a 5 sec flush the temp soon starts to drop and continue to drop and will remain at the 92-96C mark on the Eric's for about 15-20 mins before starting to climb back up again.

I've taken to pulling shots at this stage if it's close to the 92C mark or if its slightly too high, doing a short flush and then pulling the shot at about 95C.

How's everyone else getting on with them?


----------



## Wobin19

I have tried all sorts and finally settled on what works for me. I flush before grinding until the temperature starts to drop to around 195. It's usually about 5 or 6 oz, grind the beans and prep the basket and then a further cup warming flush. Further shots inside 5 minutes just need a very small 1 or 2 oz cup warming flush. It seems pretty consistent this way for me. If there is a longer gap between shots I just repeat the longer flush. I now think the Rocket is running a little on the hot side but it's controllable. This temperature probe has been a very useful tool and I am well pleased with it. I was definitely over cooking my shots before I got it.


----------



## Wobin19

I should add that there is about 90 seconds in the grinding super jolly faff. When I finally get the M3 I will have to find a new routine I guess!


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Wobin19 said:


> I have tried all sorts and finally settled on what works for me. I flush before grinding until the temperature starts to drop to around 195. It's usually about 5 or 6 oz, grind the beans and prep the basket and then a further cup warming flush. Further shots inside 5 minutes just need a very small 1 or 2 oz cup warming flush. It seems pretty consistent this way for me. If there is a longer gap between shots I just repeat the longer flush. I now think the Rocket is running a little on the hot side but it's controllable. This temperature probe has been a very useful tool and I am well pleased with it. I was definitely over cooking my shots before I got it.


Cheers Wobbin. A couple of questions

Is the temp 195 (91.5C) when you've finished pulling the 6oz flush or do you have to wait for it to drop to that?

What temp is on the Erics when you actually pull the shot


----------



## Wobin19

195 at end of flush and temp drps further to 190 before starting to rebound. The short flush is needed as I find the temp goes too high for short period otherwise after the prep. I get around 196 during brewing which I understand from Eric is 199 at the puck.


----------

