# New Ceado E37SD Single-dose Grinder



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Looks promising, what do you think?

Nice big flat burrs














https://www.ceado.com/en/product/81.html


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

It's a neat way of overcharging for "features" that don't actually do anything.

Compare this to a Compak R100 or R120, horizontal flat burr grinders which can actually single dose, and you'll realize the SD does nothing that would justify it's existance over the regular S.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

To be fair, an R120 is the size of a small child, paint it red and people will stick their letters in it. An E37S is 1/3 the size and a quarter of the price.

That said, a regular E37S with a lens hood seems pretty much the same as this SD. I wonder if they sell that chute cover separately?

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> To be fair, an R120 is the size of a small child, paint it red and people will stick their letters in it.


Sarah and I just snorted our coffee's







(you can also paint them gold for Olympians!, or add a toilet plunger to the grind dial for your own Dalek)

John


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What I love is that have stole MY idea !!!!!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I have a pic somewhere of one of my mates standing in an old fashioned metal dustbin with a colander on his head, a whisk and a sink plunger in his hands. I thought for years he was doing a Dalek impression. Turns out he was a hard-core grinder fan!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

so are they just relying upon the puffer to clean out retention or have mods been made elsewhere as I cannot remember the E37S I had as being retention free. What price range are they in?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think it's nice is to see mainstream grinder manufacturers taking single dosing and presumably the home market more seriously.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> so are they just relying upon the puffer to clean out retention or have mods been made elsewhere as I cannot remember the E37S I had as being retention free. What price range are they in?


I found the flap being the worst bit. It either sprays grounds like crazy or holds up a fair bit. I assume the design of that is changed since blowing air through might lift the flap.

It's quite promising! It could be a big flat burr single doser that's well priced.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> so are they just relying upon the puffer to clean out retention or have mods been made elsewhere as I cannot remember the E37S I had as being retention free. What price range are they in?


£3,668.00 .........

Jon.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

grief...

Victor


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

L&R said:


> grief...
> 
> Victor


Group purchase















....... only kidding.

Jon.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

It looks quite cheap next to the E37Z. 

Or in other perspective, you can sell just about anything with the right buzz words.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

xpresso said:


> £3,668.00 .........
> 
> Jon.


Where did that price come from?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

You could get a Monolith Flat Max or an EK43S with SSP burrs for that price and have plenty left over for a years fish and chip suppers.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Where did that price come from?


Probably mistaken with Ceado E37Z Hero. I cannot foresee Ceado releasing two single dose grinders with a premium price badge!

Both have 83mm burrs, SD is titanium and Hero is DLC.

What's great about it is that one of the bigger boys in the market engage into the single dosing market. I believe next few years might get very exciting.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Where did that price come from?


Yes it was the 'Hero' price







I'd been perusing it yesterday.

Jon.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

The Z is a variable speed, angled burr grinder that goes for 6500$.

The SD is a slower rpm S without the hopper.

Apart from the Ceado sticker they have nothing in common.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Apparently, they've also modified the top burr carrier to reduce retention further (?), done away with the electronic timing bit that the S has, and put Ti burrs in. Also the adjuster seems to have changed to a worm drive with a quick change override, which might be good if the burrs will actually grind well at brewed coarsenes. Not sure quite where that leaves it price-wise. On H-B people are saying they'd buy it instead of a monolith flat as long as it's cheaper. Personally I'd hope it would be swings and roundabouts with the burrs and puffer vs on-demand electronics, and hope it would be comparable in price to my S. Not that I single dose anyway, except that last shot that always runs too fast!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

xpresso said:


> £3,668.00 .........
> 
> Jon.


You forgot to add VAT so that's £4,401....kerching!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What is it with the holy grail of zero retention? What's important is being able to switch beans with minimal faff (once they've been dialled in) back and forth. Having to purge, as is the case with certain grinders, IS a faff but so long as the loss is in the range of half - one gram, what's the big deal?

What I did find hard to get my head around is the inclusion of glass bottles so you can pre-grind and use later. Are they serious?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

The Systemic Kid said:


> You forgot to add VAT so that's £4,401....kerching!


PLUS VAT !!!! .... Goes to show I saw that it was over £3,500.00 so it no longer had my interest









Jon.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Give it few months and there will be additional Brexit fee, too.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

PPapa said:


> Give it few months and there will be additional Brexit fee, too.


O'h no .. not more scaremongering, not sure you can panic buy these Monoliths and other much sought after grinders







.

Jon.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Still can't realize what makes this a single dose grinder. And what warrants the premium over the regular S.

Maybe someone from Ceado can iluminate us. I know they have people active on forums.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dev said:


> Still can't realize what makes this a single dose grinder. And what warrants the premium over the regular S.
> 
> Maybe someone from Ceado can iluminate us. I know they have people active on forums.


Do you know the price of it?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

What price premium?

I don't think anyone knows the price of it yet do they? As far as I know the price hasn't been released. All this talk of being "overpriced" and 4k+ VAT seems to be based around a completely different grinder with a vaguely similar name... "E37Z Hero", unless I missed something. The E37SD has several changes from the E37S that are supposed to make it better for single dosing. How much it costs is still unknown.

They have put titanium burrs in, a slower motor, presumably to reduce popcorning, removed the dosing electronics, added a puffer and chute cover. They have also changed the top burr carrier to reduce retention further apparently, and to incorporate a new more flexible adjustment method.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

The E37Z is 6500$ in the US. That would translate to 5000 pounds.

I don't think the SD will be cheaper than the S.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

No, probably not. And I believe they've made some changes to the S for 2019 so that's probably gone up a bit since I got mine. But I haven't seen any price info on any of their 2019 grinders yet. The S and SD may well be similar in price, I doubt it will be top dollar like the Z. That's their "showpiece" grinder for Host and other such trade shows, or to mop up sales from would-be monolith buyers with more money than patience!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Don't mind the url:https://www.torrtoys.com/ceado-grinders-1/ceado-e37-j-64mm-flat-burr-grinder-rtpg5-ht4cb


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

£1.8k!

Not sure how it makes me feel since it's just a pimped E37s, but it's probably still the cheapest big flat burr single doser?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

It's just another horizontal flat burr grinder. Without a conventional hopper.

What makes it a single dose grinder beside Ceado's marketing?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dev said:


> It's just another horizontal flat burr grinder. Without a conventional hopper.
> 
> What makes it a single dose grinder beside Ceado's marketing?


What are you missing out in this grinder that you think could not be called a single dosing grinder? Vertical burrs, auger, straight down exit chute?

I assume the exit chute has been reworked as it looks different. The puffer should help with retention too, as well as redesigned burr carrier (still unclear on that detail?). The single button is not a big deal, but will certainly help compared to a timer. I'm not sure about the clump crusher which seemed to be the main pain point of E37s I had. It either sprayed too much or it clogged up with a bit of coffee (nothing more than a gram or two, mind you).


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

It takes the SD around 10 to 15 seconds to grind a 20g dose. Compare that to a regular ondemand grinder which does it in 3-4 seconds while an Ek43 does it in 2.

You see what I'm missing?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dev said:


> It takes the SD around 10 to 15 seconds to grind a 20g dose. Compare that to a regular ondemand grinder which does it in 3-4 seconds while an Ek43 does it in 2.
> 
> You see what I'm missing?


Is this a must have for a single doser? Does that make Niche not a single doser anymore? How does that go against the claim that lower RPMs produce different (better?) grind? IIRC Monolith isn't super fast to grind either, especially if it's set to lower speed (doh!).

This is a home coffee enthusiast forum and people have been using hand grinders for espresso... I did that myself for a wee while. I'm going to say that for most home users, the grind time is not the most important property.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If the absence of a hopper is what it takes, I guess the niche is a single dose grinder.

TBH I'm hoping ceado has done some actual research on particle distribution and they haven't just assumed people will grind finer, as you do, when you single dose an ondemand grinder.


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## Graham J (Jul 27, 2018)

Two interesting points there, firstly espresso can take a little longer, (+/- 10 seconds on grind and 20 seconds on p.i. and finish) without me feeling anxious or frustrated. I'm more interested in the outcome. However, it was originally named for a reason.....

Secondly, my "other grinder" is a Ceado and there isn't any doubt that Ceado are professional and know about grind distribution; their designs clearly show that. The products are specified and designed around small cafe or large cafe and latterly, home use. If we choose to re-specify a cafe grinder c/w doser for home use (my choice) then we can expect to have to change a few things; but that's hardly Ceado's failing.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

xpresso said:


> Group purchase
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As in alot of you are going to chip in to buy one grinder... Then share it?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> It takes the SD around 10 to 15 seconds to grind a 20g dose. Compare that to a regular ondemand grinder which does it in 3-4 seconds while an Ek43 does it in 2.
> 
> You see what I'm missing?


A bit more time to grind your coffee......


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Coffee Italia have it for £1700. If it can do a decent job at single dosing (which it should given its name) it would make it the cheapest big flat single doser on the market.

What I am interested in like others is what it has changed substantially in the e37s to see if we could mod it to do the same.

The pump doser seems to have a narrow opening. The difference in the top burr carrier would be good to know as well.

If I use a lens hood and open the flap completely could I get the same results? I think I have tried this and grind distribution seemed to be massively different to normal hoppered function. Maybe it's worth another try before selling on.

In other words retention is an easier obstacle to resolve than distribution. Wonder how they've done it.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

The grind will be different compared to loading a hopper*. The general consensus is that you'll need to grind finer and WDT/redistribute after grinding.

* - I'm not going to say whether it's better or worse as I have no evidence on either.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

PPapa said:


> The grind will be different compared to loading a hopper*. The general consensus is that you'll need to grind finer and WDT/redistribute after grinding.
> 
> * - I'm not going to say whether it's better or worse as I have no evidence on either.


Yes well that would be disappointing as then there is a trade off for single dosing in the quality and consistency of the grind.

I presumed the goal behind monolith flat, lyn webber flat and ek43 is that they can attain comparable grind quality to peers AND single dose.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

In response to your disclaimer that you can't say which would be better, I would go that far and say from trying both on the e37s I prefer significantly the quality with a hopper loaded with beans.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Is there a representive from Ceado on the forum who can answer some of these questions?

Anyone know who is the main stockist of Ceado spares in the UK?


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

coffeechap said:


> What I love is that have stole MY idea !!!!!


Have you started getting your royalties?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

M_H_S said:


> Yes well that would be disappointing as then there is a trade off for single dosing in the quality and consistency of the grind.
> 
> I presumed the goal behind monolith flat, lyn webber flat and ek43 is that they can attain comparable grind quality to peers AND single dose.


Depends what you mean by can "attain grind quality"

Some are designed to run without a hopper on , by this I mean they dont have the faculty to put a hopper on them physically. Made to single dose.

The EH1 and Monolith will still popcorn to some degree, in their cases there isnt a difference between single dosing and not as you cant run them without single dosing .....( being pedantic here ) . They may popcorn to a lesser degree than other grinders or each other. But there is no weight above the beans.

The Ek is a different beast with it's auger ( other grinder have augers ) this was not designed to be an espresso grinder but a bulk grinder or it's not designed to single dose at all ( unlike Monolith, Niche etc ) Its just a weird spice grinder than works for coffee







But for espresso you couldnt run it with a hopper efficiently without wasting a massive amount of coffee ( it grinds to quick ) . So again to some degree it can only be realisticallly single dosed or used to grind bulk amounts.

You look at something like the Monolith where its aligned to an inch of its life, each one tested to the nth degree via refractometer, what more do you want ? Yes if you ran a weigh above the beans , you might need to grind coarser the grind might be different , but what do you want out of coffee and life ?

There are so many imperfections that the roaster and barista add that it can be pointless worrying about some things







.

The Caedo will make good coffee I am sure, single dosed , its the grind lock thingy that interests me more.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

I've always wandered what's the appeal of a ceado compared to a Compak for example.

I don't think I've ever seen a decent cafe running a ceado grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> I've always wandered what's the appeal of a ceado compared to a Compak for example.
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen a decent cafe running a ceado grinder.


Where as conversely lots of " great cafes, have apparently mis aligned Ek's...

Unless in the words of Lisa Stansfield you've " Been Around the world I can't find my Caedo " then it's unlikely that no good cafe's have em at all.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

I haven't been around the world but a regular cafe seems to function with a Mazzer or a cheaper Fiorenzato while the higher end ones have a mix of Mythos or Malhkonig.

I know there's a lot of marketing at play but still, where's Ceado?

PS: you can find pictures/videos of most cafes and the equivalent they use.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> I haven't been around the world but a regular cafe seems to function with a Mazzer or a cheaper Fiorenzato while the higher end ones have a mix of Mythos or Malhkonig.
> 
> I know there's a lot of marketing at play but still, where's Ceado?
> 
> PS: you can find pictures/videos of most cafes and the equivalent they use.


Its a massive generalisation you are making. I have had good / great coffee from cafe's using Mazzer's ( Roburs ) and bad really bad coffee from lots of cafe's using Mythos.

Specailty seems to mirror itself > I cant be a cafe unless my peers take me seriously , to be taken seriously i must look that part > where is my mythos and ek.....

Where are Ceado, who cares really, Peak's didnt make it into many places, does this make all Mahl stuff rubbish , nope....

I could say i have never seen a Compak in a decent cafe doesn't make them bad grinders.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If you're going to bring taste into the mix, the discussion loses relevance on a logarithmic scale...

My query is actually pretty simple, what makes the Ceado E37S a go to recommendation and a Compak E8 not?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> If you're going to bring taste into the mix, the discussion loses relevance on a logarithmic scale...
> 
> My query is actually pretty simple, what makes the Ceado E37S a go to recommendation and a Compak E8 not?


Surely the bottom line is all about taste. It would be ludicrous for someone to recommend a grinder that may have better specs on paper which underperforms in the cup for them.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Can you really taste the difference between an E37S or an E8?

Or is it just another subjective criteria to justify a purchase... Or maybe Ceados' marketing is more efficient.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> Can you really taste the difference between an E37S or an E8?
> 
> Or is it just another subjective criteria to justify a purchase... Or maybe Ceados' marketing is more efficient.


Silly boy Pike.

I haven't done a side by side comparrison so couldn't possibly answer your flippant question.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> If you're going to bring taste into the mix, the discussion loses relevance on a logarithmic scale...
> 
> My query is actually pretty simple, what makes the Ceado E37S a go to recommendation and a Compak E8 not?


I honesty dont care or know. I suspect neither do you.

You asked why there are not in your definition of a good cafe. I tried to answer.....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

M_H_S said:


> Have you started getting your royalties?


Unfortunately not but I think I should


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dev said:


> I've always wandered what's the appeal of a ceado compared to a Compak for example.
> 
> I don't think I've ever seen a decent cafe running a ceado grinder.


Ceado is much easier to clean, maintain and service than a compak! It's also quieter and grind settings do not change when you clean out the burr chamber and then replace the burrs, That for a cafe could mean A LOT


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dev said:


> Can you really taste the difference between an E37S or an E8?
> 
> Or is it just another subjective criteria to justify a purchase... Or maybe Ceados' marketing is more efficient.


Probably not! But as said above there are other factors at play that could be more important


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

Can it do filter on a cold night in Stoke?


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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

Any more feedback on people who actually use this grinder? I'm interested in purchasing a SD grinder and this is one of the 2 that are actually available to buy, the second one being the Niche


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Brand new Hedone Honne's can be purchased - about £2000 a pop.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Looks like Bella Barista will have these in from Feb

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/4695/s/ceado-e37-sd-single-dose-grinder/


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## onluxtex (Nov 18, 2015)

I got the SD two weeks ago and I am very happy with it. For my medium and dark roasts the SD for me is better than the EK43 with espresso burrs.

Nearly no retention. 18g with WDT in 17,6g out.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I will have the hero on my bench later this month!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> I will have the hero on my bench later this month!


 Looking forward to your views on that one!


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## Carlo (Dec 6, 2019)

So, I got one of these and I thought I'd post my first impressions....

Ugly it is, this grinder is no Monolith in that respect, but it is really solid. It is quite messy to grind straight into the portafilter, you'll need to use the funnel that comes with it. This is because when you use the bellow a lot of powder gets ejected in random directions through the chute. I think the chute could be smaller and slightly longer to contain the mess.

RDT is indeed necessary as otherwise the retention is huge and the coffee tends to clump up a bit.

It is slightly annoying that you can tell it is an E37J or S with a few tweaks. For example, it's clear that the chassis has been taken from the E37S, and the switch just above the fork has been plugged with a dummy switch. Or the 2 holes in the chute are useless in the SD but were used for another kind of chute (E37SL).

The grinding itself looks more homogeneous than what I'm used to (I have an Eureka Mignon Perfetto).

The adjustment is what I really liked from the beginning. It allows for small changes and it is very repeatable.

As for the taste in the cup, I'm afraid I couldn't tell the difference.

Overall I'm happy with the purchase, but I wish there was much choice at that price range for single dosers.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Little photo of the hero naked


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## Morrrrrissss (Mar 22, 2021)

Just received delivery of a e37s last week. I also have a Fellow Ode I've been using for pour over and a Helor hand grinder for espresso. My intention was to use one setup in the office and one at home and bought the e37 because it seemed like it could be switched easily between espresso and pour over (by engaging and disengaging the worm gear). I had zero expectation that the coffee would taste different.

I have since been completely blown away. Pour over coffee from the e37s tastes immeasurably better from than the Ode. Achieving consistency for Espresso is of course infinitely easier than with a hand grinder. Switching between the two on the e37s is great. Now it is to the point I feel like I want to replace the Ode set up....

Having said that, apart from taste, the Ode is better in every other way. It's smaller and doesn't weigh a ton. Looks much nicer (Ceado looks nice in photos but in reality looks like a mutant Cuisinart device that didn't make it out of development - the bellow never quite stands up straight). Has an auto stop that actually miss. Much better grind collecting setup. The e37s' cup/fork/portafilter adapter setup is just all clunky with lots of loose parts. Of course the Ode is also much much cheaper.

The Ode retains almost nothing and the knocking mechanism (needs a couple thwack) gets the chaff out nicely minimizing mess. The e37 retains alot of grind but it all comes out with a couple pumps of the bellow during grinding. So result is the same although the solution is less elegant.

The least satisfying part of the Ceado is it sprays chaff everywhere, even after wetting beans (which I don't need to do with Ode). An annoying amount of chaff also sticks to the chute even after pumping the bellows.

In short, the grind adjustment is both super precise and super flexible and the coffee is amazing. Everything else kind of sucks. But I guess the e37s has got it where it counts. I haven't tried any other grinder in the same price range as th e37s but I don't think any of them would be quite as suited to switching between espresso and pour over. As such I am quite tempted to buy another one....


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Morrrrrissss said:


> As such I am quite tempted to buy another one....


 Cheers...i shall go look at some video's....just to clarify; yours is the S version (with the Hopper) as you mentioned "bellows" which threw me somewhat....looks like Espresso Solutions has it for a good price.


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## Morrrrrissss (Mar 22, 2021)

Rincewind said:


> Cheers...i shall go look at some video's....just to clarify; yours is the S version (with the Hopper) as you mentioned "bellows" which threw me somewhat....looks like Espresso Solutions has it for a good price.


 Sorry, SD. Will correct.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@Morrrrrissss no apology necessary buddy....i had a feeling it was the SD, hence my post ☝....glad you like it....just watching some video's on it.


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## RobTheCoffeeDrinker (May 14, 2021)

I got a Ceado E37SD yesterday. I bought it from CoffeeItalia. When I searched the forum for CoffeeItalia, I found lots of posts with sharp intakes of breath, and warnings about searching the forums to see terrible tales of woe, but no actual tales of woe. So I set my expectations and ordered. Timeline: Saturday 8th May place order and receive order notification email. Wednesday 12th 8am, send email asking why there has not yet been a dispatch notification. 10am receive reply saying I would receive my order at the start of the following week. Thursday 13th, receive email saying my order would dispatch that day. Later that day, received notification from UPS saying delivery would be Tuesday 18th, which it was.

Arrived double-boxed and on mini-palette. Had a European plug and a cheap UK adapter with a bit of plastic chipped off, which I replaced with a good UK adapter.

The grinder definitely is well built. Having just taken a Vario apart to replace the belt, the ease of taking the Ceado apart and the complete lack of plastic is welcome. Everything feels solid.

I have the Opalglide burrs which look grey but shiny and rainbow-like instead of yellow. I don't know if they perform any differently.

I spent some time aligning the burrs. The process is easy since the 3 screws to remove the top make it so easy. The bottom burr was perfectly aligned. The top burr I added 5 pieces of foil in 3 locations. You have to put the foil in the groove as this is the part where the burr touches the carrier.

When you turn the worm screw, the rotating burr holder seems to rock slightly in its threads (because the turning force comes from one side), so depending on whether you last went finer or courser, the top burr alignment may be different. I wonder if the burr was in fact perfectly aligned before I started messing with it, but only after going courser. But that will be hard to check since to make the burrs touch you have to go finer. Anyway, now I have re-aligned, the trick for me now will be to always finish any adjustment with a worm-screw movement slightly towards finer to ensure the same alignment. (People complaining of consistency issues might want to try this.)

The worm-screw itself and the mechanism to disengage it seemed stiff so I added some oil and now it is much better.

I made 2 good espressos straight off (after 3 adjustments to grind size). No idea about consistency yet but also burrs not seasoned. Using a Hasbean light-ish roast blend and the RDT spray, no static issues, nice and fluffy. Grind looks if anything more uniform than the Vario was. Espresso came out well enough; will experiment more.

Process compared to Vario is more fiddly, but I've been watching videos and reading forums so maybe I have got more fussy. With the Vario, fairly even mountain is put in the basket and I found I could get decent distribution just by rotating my palm over the top of the basket (similar to Stockfleth method). For now I tried using the supplied metal cup and funnel, and found I need lots of stirring with a toothpick. I want to try grinding directly into the basket but I can see how it might not work out great with this grinder.

I removed the rubber bit from the spout; don't seem to need it. Bellows seem to do the trick to get nearly all the coffee out. I don't find I need to use the brush much. Probably depends on beans and local climate.

I got 5KG of stale beans from a friendly roaster to do seasoning. I ran the first KG through in a few minutes, obviously without RDT. A fair bit of mess but the grinder really did plough through it. The metal top was quite warm by the end, but I'm not often going to grind kilo in one go. I certainly would not want to put that amount through the Vario in one go.

So it's a big upgrade from the Vario in terms of engineering. It's possibly not more convenient *unless* it turns out to be more consistent than the Vario which was quite hit and miss. Taste remains to be seen.

I wanted a more commercial type big burr grinder with minimal retention issues and I think this about the best I could have got without going the next level up in price.

I also wanted something that looked a bit like it might be seen in an Italian cafe, and not a Swedish art museum.

I'll report back with more observations when I've finished the seasoning and tried a few more things.


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## RobTheCoffeeDrinker (May 14, 2021)

Update:

I put 4KG of the stale beans through for seasoning. Somewhat messy but otherwise fine. I will say the grinder does not like having large amounts of beans dumped in one go. I would probably not run it with a hopper. The motor would not restart if I let it stop when loaded, and it even stalled once from running at an espresso grind setting when I fed it beans too fast. Each time going to grind setting of 4 (burrs chirp at 0) freed it up. Also with no RDT and loading the bellows as if they were a hopper, ground coffee comes out somewhat burstily.

I made 3 good shots this morning. The first one I forgot to do RDT and coffee came out in bursts and I had to work the bellows a lot to get it all out. The shot was good, though.

Next two I did RDT and it makes it much easier to get all the coffee out.

I am dosing directly into the portafilter with the funnel on but holding it and moving and rotating it a bit as needed to get a more even pile. Then I stir with a cocktail stick, then tamp. (I want to get a WDT tool and Decent tamper next I think).

All three shots came out consistently. I dosed 18g and got ~36g out in about 40s from pump start on my Expobar dual boiler (E61 group head). That seemed a bit long so I made the grind courser by 0.1 but it made little difference (probably bigger adjustments are needed).

This is a big improvement in consistency from the Vario, where my second shot always seemed a bit hit and miss.

I will say that was an awesome espresso. I was not making such good shots regularly before. Partly it is the grinder, but also I have only just started measuring ratio. (I previously settled into habits I got into from reading forums 7 years ago when people were talking more about tamp pressure and measuring shot timing and looking for blonding, instead of dose and ratio).

If I really can do this consistently I'll be very happy with the combination of new grinder + methods.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@RobTheCoffeeDrinker



> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/prof...tbWVudCIsImlkXzEiOjQ0NzUyLCJpZF8yIjo4NDM4NTV9
> 
> 
> 0
> ...


 So you missed the 6 page thread about them in the retailers review area?

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/34737-caff%C3%A8-italia/?do=embed

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/forum/34-retailer-reviews/

Didn't spot them in the alphabetical listing of retailers?

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/56315-equipment-retailer-reviews-alphabetical-listing/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=796525&embedComment=796525&embedDo=findComment#comment-796525

Ah...well we need to do more to make that area a little more visible perhaps...🤣 it would also help if they didn't have 3 variations of name!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I had problems with a grinder off them but it did get sorted out.  Also some compensation via paypal.

There were some language problems initially as they sell from Italy but that was sorted too.


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## RobTheCoffeeDrinker (May 14, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> So you missed the 6 page thread about them in the retailers review area?


 Fair play, @DavecUK.

In my defense, all I did was search for coffeeitalia using the search box: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/search/?&q=coffeeitalia&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

104 results. Look at that first page. "this retailer is a huge NO GO"; "less than stellar reputation"; "dont have a great rep"; "Put "coffeeitalia " into the site search box, and from the results read a few of the many tales of woe"; "You won't get any support fromcoffeeitalia"; "you may want to do a quick search of "coffeeitalia " using the forum search tool...warning:- sit down before reading"; "I would do a search of "coffeeitalia " up there in the search bar"; "Buying from the likes ofcoffeeitalia is effectively buying without a warranty"; "Do yourself a favour and search forcoffeeitalia experiences on here"; "coffeeitalia dont have the best reputation"; "fingers crossed it arrives ok"; "Coffeeitalia doesn't have a great reputation".

Yes, I was lazy and didn't look much beyond that. Didn't seem worth it as I knew which grinder I wanted by that point and the choice of suppliers was limited. Life is full of risks, etc. I'm just writing about my own experiences.

Edit: I tried to add my own data to that 6 page thread but there is no post button. Something to do with, "We want our reviews to be by established members" perhaps.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@RobTheCoffeeDrinker I'm only pulling your leg 😁, they have different variations of name and attractive pricing...many people get caught out. It's always well worth asking for a recommendation on here...or use one of our advertisers. In the past cafeitalia has been an advertiser on here (temporarily), not my doing. However, there are certain companies, I would discourage from advertising on here...I'd actually refuse to place the advert, then it would be up to the owner to overrule me....which has not happened yet.


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## RobTheCoffeeDrinker (May 14, 2021)

@DavecUK  yes I probably should have asked first, since there may well be suppliers of it more locally with known good after-sales. Sadly Bella Barista don't sell them. OTOH, I hate asking for advice and then not taking it; and not all my decisions are entirely rational 

I feel like I owe this thread something more on-topic:

Made a dozen or so shots over the weekend. I had exactly one fast shot that spooked me into grinding finer so I then got a too slow shot; probably I just had bad distribution. Put it back to the original setting and things went back to normal.

Distribution is something I am working on: shots are coming out donut-like quite often. It's not a huge effect but it's there. I don't think I can blame it on the grinder too much; I was not paying much attention to this when I had the Vario. At some point I might try more of a direct comparison between Vario and E37SD.

Anyway, apart from those two dodgy shots I am getting consistent results over a few days with no fiddling with grind settings. Coffee tastes good to me, but I am not an expert taster. I am starting to feel confident that if the grind is consistent then fiddling around with other variables will be worthwhile and I might start to learn how they affect taste. Shot-to-shot seemed much more random before with the Vario.

At some point I'll try grinding for Chemex and possibly other experiments and will report back if I notice anything interesting.


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## Morrrrrissss (Mar 22, 2021)

Morrrrrissss said:


> Just received delivery of a e37s last week. I also have a Fellow Ode I've been using for pour over and a Helor hand grinder for espresso. My intention was to use one setup in the office and one at home and bought the e37 because it seemed like it could be switched easily between espresso and pour over (by engaging and disengaging the worm gear). I had zero expectation that the coffee would taste different.
> 
> I have since been completely blown away. Pour over coffee from the e37s tastes immeasurably better from than the Ode. Achieving consistency for Espresso is of course infinitely easier than with a hand grinder. Switching between the two on the e37s is great. Now it is to the point I feel like I want to replace the Ode set up....
> 
> ...


 This is an update of my previous review where I basically said the 37sd makes great coffee but is kind of a hack (see above) and is a bit of a pain to use.

Well now I've been using 2 for a couple months.... and there is another major annoyance. Some people one the web have said they have experienced inconsistent results. After a while of using the machine I began to experience a very wierd cup of coffee every 4 or 5 grinds.

After diasasemly and cleaning (which was, on the plus side, remarkably easy), I discovered there is a small ledge, where the metal chute meets the grind chamber. There is a significant vertical gap between where the coffee exits the grind chamber and this ledge. Therefore the majority of the time the grinds fly over the ledge, especially when using the bellows.

However, everytime you use the machine, I belive a very small amount of grind builds up on this ledge. After several cycles this becomes a significant amount which then avalanches into your next dose. Especially if your are constantly changing grind size, this makes a really bad cup of coffee.

This can be prevent by brushing the chute every time you grind. Unfortunately the ledge is quite far up the chute and cannot really be accessed with a brush unless you remove the rubber shroud on the chute. So, unless you are willing to remove, brush, then replace the shroud every grind, then you end up using the machine without the shroud.

The downside is then that without the shroud, the 37sd shoots grides in a 100 degree arc all over your kitchen...

So my current technic is to start the machine (remember that there is no Hopper), then holding the collection cup as close as possible to the chutew with one hand, pouring beans and bellowing with the other. Proper 3 handed operation. Particularly tricky with espresso.

Following this, I brush the chute with special attention to hitting the offending ledge, collecting the excess into the removable collection tray (and all over my kitchen counter).

So yeah, it's not smooth. But the coffee is still good. And I guess if convenience is a priority I do own an Nespresso machine....


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Morrrrrissss said:


> And I guess if convenience is a priority I do own an Nespresso machine


 Why would you subject yourself to that? Show yourself some respect and dignity. 😂😂😂👍😊😊

good read about the E37SD. Back in the day, the 37S was my dream grinder. It was one of the very few home friendly grinders, yet powerful.


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## RobTheCoffeeDrinker (May 14, 2021)

Morrrrrissss said:


> The downside is then that without the shroud, the 37sd shoots grides in a 100 degree arc all over your kitchen...


 I never use the shroud and my coffee is deposited nicely into the portafilter (I just use the funnel and hold the portafilter + funnel under the chute). I don't have any problem with coffee spraying around.

I wonder why. Possibly beans/roast/climate affect this sort of thing.

I will investigate this ledge, though.


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