# La pavoni preinfusion time



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Hi all,

As soon as I think I'm getting used to the LP, it throws me a curve ball...

Dosing 11g into the double basket (coin on top of puck test says anymore is too much) and set at 8 on the Niche. I know this is not directly comparable but as a point of reference, I had it at 13-18 with the DTP depending on beans.

From the moment the lever reaches the top, it only takes a couple of seconds til I see the first drop. With the last beans it was more like 10, so I've gone down to setting 5 on the Niche and almost exactly the same.

Any advice? Am I grinding TOO fine, tamper not the right size and so not sealing the edge of basket, need to go finer still and potentially recalibrate?

Thanks!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> As soon as I think I'm getting used to the LP, it throws me a curve ball...
> 
> ...


Well. You want to have resistance at the top of the stroke. My experience - far less than many others here, so feel free to take with a pinch of salt or two - is that if you are having drips of coffee without applying any force or at boiler pressure force you may be grinding too coarse or your basket is not prepared properly and water is simply finding the path of least resistance.

On the lever day, CoffeeChap kindly brought a machine with the esperto kit on. If you are able to pull the lever without much resistance, you are likely pulling a shot at around 4 or 5 bar.

I'd say:
- grind the 11g;
- put into the basket
- WDT 
- NESW tamp to make sure all areas are covered
- remove air from piston with a few half pulls. Keep the lever lifted half way
- lock the PF in, pre infuse and pull.
- hopefully you'll feel resistance at the top of the stroke.

It took me a while to get my routine right, lots of trial and error, and no doubt I'm still learning.

Good luck.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I tend to preinfusion at around 2 bar, if you are getting drops that soon you are way too coarse


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

It sounds like you need to calibrate your Niche. Depending on beans my settings are somewhere between 18-24, but this isn't the problem.

How long is the extraction taking and how

much is the output? Initially grind finer and see what happens. Most importantly what does it taste like?


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Thanks everyone for your help! I'll try giving it a few pumps before and putting the pf in with the lever half up.

I'll also calibrate the niche again and knock the grind size down a bit too, to go a bit finer.

Unfortunately I'm out all day now so probably can't try until tomorrow

I've also got a grouphead refurb kit from the espresso shop as I had some leaking from the grouphead during heat up. I'll fit that tomorrow and report back!


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

So I pulled two shots this morning, one went into a flat white and the latter purely as espresso.

I did as recommended- a few pumps prior to inserting the PF and leaving the lever almost fully up when inserting. This helped with the sponginess of the pull, but still had a quick preinfusion.

So I tried again with a finer grind (calibrated the Niche) and I'm down to around 5 on the dial. The pre-infusion was a bit longer before first drip, and the lever had no sponginess, but it was still pretty easy to pull the lever and the shot was very sour...

I have taken a picture of the puck post shot as I thought it was strange that the back looks as if it's damaged. The water does also come out the faster on the back of the grouphead.

I can go finer again, but I don't think this is the issue as I pulled some delicious shots on the LP a couple of weeks ago with it around the 10-11 mark on the Niche (different beans though). These are also all around 10 day old North Star roast beans.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

jonnycooper29 said:


> So I pulled two shots this morning, one went into a flat white and the latter purely as espresso.
> 
> I did as recommended- a few pumps prior to inserting the PF and leaving the lever almost fully up when inserting. This helped with the sponginess of the pull, but still had a quick preinfusion.
> 
> ...


Did you try distributing wdt and doing a NESW tamp?

Ps: I don't think there's a much to learn from spent pucks (pucklogy)


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

the trick may be that when you lift the lever at the top point of letting the water in do this very very slowly - you should hear the hiss a few seconds

The other thing that may be wrong is if the pressure in the boiler is too high

The last thing I can think of is try putting in 13g , get a naked portafilter and you can use upto 15g

11g is quite a thin puck which may be the problem even if the boiler pressure is correct

just some ideas


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

jimbojohn55 said:


> the trick may be that when you lift the lever at the top point of letting the water in do this very very slowly - you should hear the hiss a few seconds
> The other thing that may be wrong is if the pressure in the boiler is too high
> The last thing I can think of is try putting in 13g , get a naked portafilter and you can use upto 15g
> 11g is quite a thin puck which may be the problem even if the boiler pressure is correct
> just some ideas


That's great, thanks!

I made it a naked pf on the lathe a couple of weeks ago, so I might get myself an Elektra double basket.

I'll give lifting the lever a bit slower a try too!

I'm not too sure how to adjust the pressurestat, or if it's even possible, but I'll research into that later on


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Most of them are its just a case of turning the knurled knob in it this way or that - if you haven't got a gauge fitted buy a cheap one and attach it to the steam arm with a piece of pipe and a couple of banjo fittings - its quite common for the pressurestat to be out a bit and need adjusting

on second thoughts just get a gauge and adapter kit for on top of the sight glass

either get the Electra basket or buy the £40 naked that's on the market - its quality bit of kit with a spring to keep the basket in - I think bluestar are selling them cheapest but you can find them on ebay, like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LA-PAVONI-49mm-Bottomless-Naked-Portafilter-Handle-for-Europiccola-Stradivari/273107015128?hash=item3f967255d8:g:LrMAAOSwhjNbYu33

but choose the right size if you do 49 or 51


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Just to update re the portafilters, Batain has just mentioned to me that the handles of the knaked PF's in the link above are threadlocked on, but if you want to change them for wood etc ask for one that hasn't been locked on.


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