# Being an eco-friendly coffee bar



## chrisweaver_barista

Hey guys

Here's a question, what do you guys do/think that we, as baristas and coffee shop owners should be specifically doing to improve the green credentials of our coffee bars?

From the simple recycling milk cartons, to weird and unique methods to save energy?

Chris


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## Mike

I think its little things that are going to make the biggest difference. Im sick of what I would call token gestures, especially the craze with carbon offsetting. Some (and I stress some) of these schemes are nothing more than scams to make you think you are going green.

For me its things like water waste. Finding the best way to conserve water in the shops i think would be a huge advantage. Also take away cartons, I think finding a novel scheme to benefit those who provide their own cup/beaker/whatever would be a great way to reduce the "packaging waste".

Just my thoughts anyway


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## ash_porter

I'll try not to ramble on but as Chris well knows I've just finished an environment based course, so the key word there was 'try'.

Firstly I may as well just copy & paste the following quote from http://www.idealbite.com

"Individually, one cup of coffee purchased every day in a disposable container contributes about 22.75 pounds of waste per year.

Prevents use of highly non-biodegradable polystyrene (a.k.a. Styrofoam). While Styrofoam can be recycled, the facilities that do so are few and far between, helping contribute to an annual 25 billion cups of trash. Save money! Companies like Starbucks offer a small discount to customers who bring in their own reusable containers. In 2004 alone, 15.1 million Starbucks customers brought in their own mugs, keeping an estimated 655,500 pounds of paper out of U.S. landfills."

Secondly, as we all know baristas/coffee owners etc ultimately end up using large amounts of water. Strangely however many people seem unable to grasp the concept that there is actually very little water available (globally speaking).

Recycling rain water is not a new idea - though many people think it may only be used for gardens, why not send it back into the building?

Simple systems can be fitted allowing rainwater to subsidise the mains supply - perhaps not directly for making the coffee though. But instead for flushing the store toilet/using the store dishwasher etc - appliances such as these consume large amounts of water.

This would serve not only to save water but also a few pennies on the old utilities bill.









And if people try telling you the coffee industry isn't environmentally beneficial feel free to mention how coffee farms have one of the highest biodiversity ratings around; or that other crops (i.e. citrus etc) are grown among them etc.

Perhaps you could do something with the used coffee grounds? May be sell them or something with a little leaflet/booklet thing just explaining a bit about how they make great fertilizer, repel ants, are good for exfoliating face masks (so I hear, anyway), home cleaning & home-made dye, etc, etc, etc.


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## chrisweaver_barista

some good idea's there Ash, and I totally agree with you Mike, life everywhere is full of easy ways to feel good, and fast, but false solutions (fairtrade







).

I passionately dislike people brining re-usable take-away cups... At Coffee Aroma, a lot of though, trial and experimentation went into sourcing and choosing our takeaway cups, they are a very specific size, and shape, and to let people bring their own, undoes that.

Maybe some sort of scheme whereby if people bring back their takeout cups, so we can make sure they are recycled would help?

Also love a lot of idea's Ash!!! Some great ones!! I'm distracted by Torchwood though!


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## Glenn

Chris, does your question extend to furnishings and bar materials as well?

Many cafes use hard detergents to clean their cups rather than eco-friendly products.

Recycling bins could be provided

Paper bags given out instead of plastic carry bags

Teaspoons used instead of wooden or plastic stirrers

There are a multitude of things a cafe could do to smarten up it's act

Even keeping the doors and windows open instead of using air-conditioning would be a good start.


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## Neo

Glenn said:


> Chris, does your question extend to furnishings and bar materials as well?
> 
> Many cafes use hard detergents to clean their cups rather than eco-friendly products.
> 
> Recycling bins could be provided
> 
> Paper bags given out instead of plastic carry bags
> 
> Teaspoons used instead of wooden or plastic stirrers
> 
> There are a multitude of things a cafe could do to smarten up it's act
> 
> Even keeping the doors and windows open instead of using air-conditioning would be a good start.


Wouldn't it be too hot if there are no air-conditioners ?


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## chrisweaver_barista

our aircon in the bar area is broken, and yes it is too hot!!

we do use mainly teaspoons, give out paper bags, etc. but we don't recycle...

But we will soon I hope


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## Ghostrider

I wonder if the big coffee chains have a policy on this - a proper policy I mean, not just a leaflet - as they must have a massive carbon footprint.


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## chrisweaver_barista

the coffee chains don't seem to be held accountable on a lot of things, there's not a lot of research that damns them, especially the UK chains like Nero and Costa, its a shame!!


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## AlexV

There are a number of new products for coffee shops, which are biodegradable, including new sip lids made from PLA. I think paying 1p more for a biodegradable cup is worth it.


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## Glenn

Completely agree Alex - 1p is a nominal amount to pay, and if marketed right you may even bring in extra customers and thereby use it as an additional revenue stream.

Welcome by the way!


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## PhilDaCoffeeGuy

Hey Ash

I give my grinds away to people who ask, but would love to advertise the benefits of them for the garden

Fancy knocking me up a leaflet


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## adamfahn

I use vegetable starch disposables that bio degrade and ensure it goes in to composting. I didn't think about the grounds, that is a new avenue that I will deal with in the next few weeks.


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## James Hoffmann

We're trying a new style of packaging for our coffee.

Instead of using the disposable sealable 1kg foil lined bags, which do a great job for the coffee's freshness but seem horribly wasteful if a cafe is throwing away 100 of them a weak, we are using something else.

For certain accounts we are delivering coffee in reusable 4kg buckets that are resealable, able to be sealed air tight and have 1 way valves in them. We only sell coffee in them to accounts we can collect the buckets from for re-use when we deliver.

So far it seems to be working well. Getting the valves to work has been a challenge, but for certain accounts the feedback has been great. We'll probably try and put it out to the press a little more over the next week or so.

We also give all our chaff, old grounds and jute to Spitalfields City Farm - which is a cool little place in the middle of the east end.


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## SeamusMcFlurry

Wow. Talk about foward thinking.

Do the buckets keep the coffee as fresh as the foil bags, or is it a trade off between being eco friendly and serving totally fresh coffee? Not that I have any opinion, I'm just cuious


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## James Hoffmann

We are seeing very similar results to foil lined bags, if not a slight increase in longevity of the coffee. Great shots from 9-18 days, a little bubbly before and the sweetness starting to tail off after that. Some people are still getting good shots up to 24 days from roast. Crazy! We are now looking at ways to change the timeframe of the window slightly so it is a little easier to work with sooner.


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## chrisweaver_barista

Wow thats pretty awesome James. 4kg of fresh roast must kick out a good amount of co2. Have they been tried in shops yet. How easy are they to store, empty into hoppers etc?

Chris


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## Glenn

Wow, they sound great James

I saw 4L Paint Cans in the USA (and Brian at DoubleShot Coffee send his out that way) and they looked great.

I guess these are a similar size? (1 gallon = approx 4.5 litres)


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## SeamusMcFlurry

Sounds awesome. Anything that simultaneously produces better coffee and is eco friendly must be a good thing! lol


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## James Hoffmann

About half a dozen customers are using them now - Flat White and co really prefer them to throwing away hundreds of bags a month.

I think the buckets are a bit bigger than the cans - 3.5lbs is a little under 2 kilos I think. I will upload a picture of the buckets somewhere if anyone is interested. We write the roast date on them in washable pen too, instead of using tags or something that needs to be thrown away.


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## TimStyles

I've been using Square Mile's bucket system, and while I was somewhat reticent regarding the loading of the hopper, it really hasn't been an issue.

Nor has coffee freshness, either, I should add.


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## chrisweaver_barista

Would love to see a pic James

Chris


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## James Hoffmann

http://www.jimseven.com/images/bucket.jpg

Image is a bit big (browsers should resize it for viewing) and I don't know the board code to make it dictate image sizing?


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## AlexV

How many times do you think the buckets can be used before the rim seals go?


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## AlexV

We provide low usage customers withy these, vacuum containers, which are great for bean bags that have bean opened (and degased in the bags for a few days). Also great for customers who have a range of coffees, ground/beans.


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## James Hoffmann

AlexV said:


> How many times do you think the buckets can be used before the rim seals go?


Good question - we are still experimenting. It is looking like at least the very least a dozen but more like at least 20+.

We'll have a better idea once we have more data and that only comes with time.


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## Glenn

Thanks James - they look great

I had envisaged these being metal but they look like plastic.

The logo looks great too


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## heminui

hey eco barista warriors out there. -This is more relevant to the earlier posts on this topic-

I use Vegware (http://www.vegware.co.uk) cups at my new place (http://www.dose-espresso.com) and I have to say that they are well worth it. At about £9 extra per case of 1000 (0.9p per cup) they are by far the cheapest supplier of biodegradable cups if you buy direct from the manufacturer's website- they also have loads of other bio products to replace conventional stuff. They look good too. One drawback is that the lids are quite brittle and prone to splitting- however, Vegware do offer to replace any cracked lids free of charge and I understand that they are working on the composition of their materials to rectify this.

I think that the extra expense is an investment in my reputation as a genuine, ethically responsible business. My customers respond well to it- I hear them making passing comments to each other about bio cups etc and some have been very kind to mention such things in their online reviews. It means that punters can be sure that their coffee really is as guilt-free as can be.

I should say that I am not professing to be an environmental paradigm- I have a way to go there.

One conundrum that pops-up is; "what is the point of biodegradable cups when they are just going to end-up in landfill (where the absence of O2 prevents decomposition)?" This is a good question and one that needs a long-winded answer, covering subjects such as: the reduction of our dependency on fossil fuels; accessible public composting facilities and the hope that awareness will drive demand for better solutions- we all know about supply and demand.

Also, it should be noted that for a genuinely balanced debate, the poignant topic of food resources being diverted towards bio-fuels and bio-plastics, thus driving up the prices of staple foods deserves a mention as this can have an impact on some of the developing countries that produce coffee.

In conclusion: There is no silver bullet solution for disposables apart from simply not using them in the first place, but that isn't practicable for most of us. Just keep the debate alive, do your best and somebody, somewhere will find a way to make it work and make money at it too.


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## AlexV

As a company we used to supply bio degradable paper cups, but after looking deeper into the subject I change my mind. The two main reasons for this are -

The majority of all biodegradable paper cups on the market are made in the far east (like the vegware cups above), with a few companies in the USA manufacturing them. So by the time you get your cups, the carbon footprint is huge. There are some companies in Europe manufacturing compostable paper cups, and yes there is a difference between compostable and biodegradable.

I have also come across a number of products which biodegrade due to a coating that under the correct temperature / moisture conditions will break down the material. The only problem is that these conditions don't occur at landfill sites, and the cup has to find its way to a specific industrial composting facility, which at the moment is very unlikely.

Secondly, there have been some recently been some advancements which means that regular paper cups with oil based linings, can now be recycled. This is at the moment just a small step, as the cups have to be collected as separate waste, which for the high street is unlikely, but for offices or closed areas it is possible.

This whole subject is a very tricky one, as there are two sides and arguments for and against.

Personally I think we need to start moving away from paper cups, in the same way we are with plastic bags.


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## Gwilym

On our carts we only use take away cups. I have wrestled with this and come up with no satisfactory solution - yet.

I like the way Heminui at Dose Espresso charges extra if customers use take away cups


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