# Best espresso machine up to £300??



## JimBean1 (Apr 11, 2016)

I know this is going to be fairly subjective but I have up to a maximum of £300 for a new machine to replace my old but until now reliable delonghi bar 14. I'm thinking Sage Duo Temp Pro but wanted to fish for some ideas before I committed to it.

Thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You are limited in the new price range ( sage or a classic ) what are your concerns about second hand from reliable sources such as on here ?


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## jtldurnall (Mar 16, 2015)

Could also consider a La Pavoni if you fancy a lever. Regularly come up within your budget.


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## JimBean1 (Apr 11, 2016)

No concerns at all actually, if there was something suitable I'd go for it, its quite confusing though with all the choices and different opinions. There's something quite safe about going into John Lewis and laying down the cash for a new machine with a two year gurantee


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Shameless plug, and gives you £100 for beans

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?31451-Gaggia-Classic-with-PID


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## thomas4coffee (Mar 24, 2016)

Hi,

May not be what you had in mind but may be worth looking at - its manual and actually way under budget:


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## mrbagel (Mar 1, 2016)

Definitely grab an older Classic if you go that route - the new models (2015 onwards) are remakes of the old Color/Pure models with no 3-way and stainless boiler...

Edit-

I'd also add that for that money, it might be worth considering the Nuova Simonelli Oscar as it's HX and will beat any other machine at this price point, but it's considered ugly by some.


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## ChrisQP09 (Apr 6, 2016)

Gaggia Classic, hands down!


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## stimu (May 14, 2016)

Heard a lot of good words from Gaggia Classic, might worth giving it a shot?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd recommend a used Gaggia Classic pre-2014. I believe the pre-2009 ones have larger solenoids.


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## R6GYY (Nov 22, 2015)

I've had the Sage Duo Temp Pro for about 7 months now, and it is (in my opinion, and for my needs) awesome. In particular I love the textured milk I get from it which is so easy to do - I could never get the same results from my old Gaggia Baby (which broke twice - fixed once under warranty, then sold on eBay for spares). The attention to detail stands out too - accessories tray, which sits behind the drip dray to store baskets and cleaning gear in, built in (replaceable) water filter in the water tank. Cleaning tools provided (for the steam wand nozzle), and the 'Razor' for measuring of the puck to ensure you do not overfill your basket. Tamper provided, and a magnetic holder for storage. Oh - and this unit uses a one-piece cylindrical boiler block, so should never leak like the rectangular thermo-blocks, that is another bonus.

I was so impressed with this, I got the matching "Sage The Smart Grinder Pro" to go with it later (currently £60 off at £140 at Lakeland), and this is fantastic too.

Re: warranty - if you source one from Lakeland (currently selling at £300) you get their 'lifetime warranty'.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

As you would expect, there are differing views on the best but the Silvia, Classic and Duo Temp seem to be on the short list.

What are the thoughts on the Quickmill 820 at BB (https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/quick-mill-820-espresso-coffee-machine-black.html) amongst the three above?

Also, assuming all 3/4 make decent coffee or at least close to each other, which is the most wife friendly to use, that doesn't require OCD levels of attention to detail and can produce coffee in the shortest time from start up?


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## Iskanda (May 22, 2016)

JimBean1 said:


> £300


May be a good used machine is an option? I germany you can get sometimes for this amount of money a good BZ99 or Oscar - both machines having 2 circuits.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Iskanda said:


> May be a good used machine is an option? I germany you can get sometimes for this amount of money a good BZ99 or Oscar - both machines having 2 circuits.


I don't know about the Bezzara but isn't the Oscar an HX machine


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## Iskanda (May 22, 2016)

Yes, a HX-machine (2 water circuits)


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## jamiegroom (May 22, 2016)

Looking for the same, can't wait to get a machine to get started


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## rcoltz (Apr 1, 2016)

Under £300 ...... aeropress! You can get that for under $30!

sent by magic by a luddite


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Shameless plug, I have a used Classic for sale on here with some extras for £125 + delivery.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Hi all,

I have done a lot more reading, visiting stores etc and to be honest, the more I look into which machine to buy, the more confused I get









My budget, as per the OP is limited to around the £300 mark. I have been looking into all the usual suspects an ascertained the following:

*- Gaggia Classic*

*
*+ Popular Machine with lots of advice, support and spare parts

+ Cheapest of the three

- Requires about 20-30 minutes to warm up

- Ideally requires OPV and steam wand mods

- Water tank is the smallest

- Temp Surfing

*- Rancilio Silvia*

+ Probably the closes to a commercial machine

+ Larger water tank

+ Great steaming capabilities

+ No mods required (other than maybe a PID)

+ Good parts availability

- Most expensive

- 20-30 minutes to warm up to temp

- Temp Surfing

*- Sage Duo Temp Pro*

+ Super fast warm up time, approx. 2-5 minutes, due to Thermocoil

+ Electronic PID (but not adjustable)

+ Neat, well thought out and wife friendly

- 54mm Portafilter

- No solenoid

- Lack of independent support and parts

- Question around longevity

I almost bought a Gaggia Classic (RI8161) for a good price but the time between switch on and being ready to pour the first espresso is particularly important to me as waiting 20-30 minutes will mean the wife throws it in the bin !

This then lead me to almost pushing the button on the Sage DTP but given it does not have a Solenoid valve, a smaller portafilter and the PID is not adjustable, will this mean that it will not deliver coffee as good as the Gaggia or Silvia ?

I have also been looking at more expensive used machines, but even used, they are still £500+ which is outside my budget.

Any thoughts to help me decide ?


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

You've probably picked the best 3 - I have the Silvia and for my couple of espresso's a day & perhaps a few more flat whites at the weekend it works for me. Small footprint in the kitchen - good steaming power. Yes you have to temp surf (I haven't fitted a PID) but by the time you've ground etc it's ready to use. As you say there's a plentiful supply of parts available too.

The Classic seems to be the favoured entry level machine on here and there's some bargains to be had - around the £100-150 mark. Very similar to the Silvia from what I've heard.

The Sage is a difficult one to comment on as I've not used it but there seemed to be a lot purchased when the price dropped recently. I do read that there's issues with the machines and I wonder if this is because there's just too many electronics inside (remember TV/DVD combo's?). I had the Sage grinder for a while and whilst it did what I needed it to do, I really don't think the longevity was there in comparison to the Classic and Silvia's which will last you 10+ years - that's if you don't get the upgrade bug in the meantime.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

Does it really take 20-30 minutes for a Gaggia to warm up. I've never noticed that. I usually leave mine about 5 minutes before pouring my morning coffee. During the day it gets left on and I can't say I've noticed any difference between 5 minutes and 2 hours warm up.

I don't use the steam wand as don't have milk so can't comment on how good or bad that is.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Thanks Jacko.

Yes, some of the Sage machines seem to have had a few issues but from what I can ascertain, this is mainly around the all-in-one grinder and espresso machines like the Barista model.

The Dual Boiler and the Duo Temp Pro seem to more reliable but then again, they haven't been around as long as the Gaggia or Silvia to be able to make a definitive conclusion.

Although longevity is important, as long as it lasts a few years I don't mind as much.

The killer at the moment is the warm-up time. If the boiler machines like the Silvia and Classic could warm up as quickly as the Sage machines, I would have an easier time deciding - 20+ minutes is a little too long.

I know you could fit a timer for the morning but it is not ideal and also foes not help with the ad hoc coffee during the day.

Are there any other machine around this price range that produce great coffee and have a fast warm up time ?

Will the smaller portafilter, lack of solenoid an fixed PID temp on the Sage mean the quality of the coffee suffers compared to a Gaggia or Silvia ?


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

GrowlingDog said:


> Does it really take 20-30 minutes for a Gaggia to warm up. I've never noticed that. I usually leave mine about 5 minutes before pouring my morning coffee. During the day it gets left on and I can't say I've noticed any difference between 5 minutes and 2 hours warm up.
> 
> I don't use the steam wand as don't have milk so can't comment on how good or bad that is.


Steam Wand doesn't bother me as like you, 98% of my drinks are with no milk.

As regards warm-up time, that is what I have read based on posts from forum coffee experts on the internet and here - views?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

You can speed it up a bit by heating the portafilter (dump it in hot water) and running some water through. But the classic does need some warm up time, after its been cold. On a morning maybe 20 minutes. I drink around 5 coffees a day, (but tend to switch off between drinks) and subsequent heat up is much less as it retains heat. Maybe get a wemo switch to turn it on from bed (or even an old fashioned timer switch) to eliminate the morning wait. I generally just flip mine on before I shower and it's ready to go when I'm dressed. (But we live in a bungalow so it's easier to do)

I'd go with the classic all day long. Easy, cheap, reliable.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

It's not so much that it takes 20 minutes to be ready to make a shot, it's that it takes about that time for it to be any kind of temperature stable before pulling the shot. The recovery time between shots is also quite long.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi, I picked up a Sage DTP a few weeks back. I had a Classic before that. I loved the Classic but I wanted something more convenient as I didn't like waiting for 20-30 mins for my coffee. The Sage is ready to go in 2 minutes. It looks great and the steam wand is fantastic compared to the Classic. Yes the portafilter is only 54mm but the coffee it produces is no different to what the Classic's 58mm was producing. As far as I am aware the only problem with the 54mm portafilter is the fact that its very hard to get a naked 54mm portafilter and there are very few tampers available (though I think the one supplied with the machine is fine).

I can't comment on the Silvia as I have never used one but you can't go wrong with either the Classic or the DTP. I personally think you get more for your money with the Sage (milk jug, tamper, baskets, cleaning tools etc) and it looks better and is much easier/consistent to use.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Thanks for taking the time to respond Kyle. That is great feedback given you have owned both the Classic and now the DTP.

So I guess you are saying that despite a 54mm Portafilter, no Solenoid Valve and a PID that is not adjustable, the DTP produces coffee to the same standard and quality as the Classic ?

Although the PID is a massive bonus, I have read the odd report that sometimes the coffee is not hot enough. Without being able to adjust the PID, this could be hard t overcome, other than pre-flushing/heating the head and Portafilter. Have you experienced this ?

Also, have you tried pulling a number of shots back to back - how does teh DTP perform in this regard as I understand the Classic needs time to get back up to temp between every couple of shots.

Finally, when you say the DTP is more convenient, is that solely due to the heat up time ?


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

It definitely produces coffee easily as good as the Classic and that's after only two weeks of use. I have never had issues with temperature so far I only have 1 Americano and 1 latte each day and temps have always been fine. I have read that coffee temp should also be at a drinkable temperature and it seems to be. The most shots I have pulled back to back is 3 and each one seemed fine and pretty consistent. As for convenience, yes, the heat up time is the main reason but also consider, the steam wand that makes it incredibly easy to produce silky milk every time, the little float in the drip tray that lifts when full to alert you to empty it, the milk jug and magnetic tamper, the filter inside the water tank eliminating the need for bottled water and the overall ease of use.


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## Spy (May 12, 2016)

Thanks Kyle. You should ask Sage for commission as I am now pretty sold on the DTP.

When you pulled the 3 cups back to back, were they singles or doubles ?

Did you notice any drop in temp or pressure between cups?

Thx


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Only ever pull doubles. Noticed no difference between the 3. The machine regulates itself back to correct temp after using the steam wand too. Like a purge to cool itself back to temp ready to pull another shot straight away.


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