# In: 10g Time:30 secs Out 70g



## tuk (Nov 24, 2018)

I cant work out what I'm doing wrong. To get near 30g out I would need to extract for about 14 secs?

Using a Sage, 1 Cup, Dual Wall basket and pre-ground:

https://www.mykimbo.co.uk/collections/napoletano/products/napolitano-ground


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

A couple of questions.

Are you aiming for 70g? If you want less coffee in the cup, why not run the shot shorter?

Why do you want 30g out? Why not try 40 or 50g?

What do you mean by "1 cup"? You're putting th cup on scales & killing the shot by weight, correct?

70g out tastes bad in what way?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You cannot make espresso with pre ground coffee....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> You cannot make espresso with pre ground coffee....


Well, you can.

Don't know about the Kimbo though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

from what you say, you want to extract longer which means one of. a few things. if you are not able to use your own grinder to grind finer than the Kimbo, then you need to put more coffee into the basket and tamp harder. this will cause resistance and slow down the pour. Your one button is probably programmed to 30 seconds which is not cast in stone for the experienced user but might help someone at the start of their coffee career set some parameters


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Which Sage machine?

John

-


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## tuk (Nov 24, 2018)

> Are you aiming for 70g? If you want less coffee in the cup, why not run the shot shorter?


Not aiming for 70g but expecting 30g, going on the Sage manual and what I've read elsewhere



> Why do you want 30g out? Why not try 40 or 50g?


See above on why 30, but I might try a 20 secs extraction to see what the difference is.



> What do you mean by "1 cup"? You're putting th cup on scales & killing the shot by weight, correct?


"1 cup" is how its described in the sage manual, see screenie below. I don't have scales that will fit on the tray so measuring the shot by 30 sec timer. Then weighing the cup afterwards.



> 70g out tastes bad in what way?


Actually it tastes kinda ok, if not a little watery. The trouble is I'm not really sure how the extracted shot should look or taste apart from what I see in videos.



> if you are not able to use your own grinder to grind finer than the Kimbo, then you need to put more coffee into the basket and tamp harder.


I'm tamping on bathroom scales all the way up to 20kg pressure and several tamps at that. Its not possible to get any more coffee in the basket otherwise it wont fit into the head



> Which Sage machine?


DTP

------------------

Ps Coffee starts to fall into the cup around 9 -10 secs after the pump is turned on.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tuk said:


> Not aiming for 70g but expecting 30g, going on the Sage manual and what I've read elsewhere
> 
> See above on why 30, but I might try a 20 secs extraction to see what the difference is.
> 
> ...


If you're aiming for 30g, then you need to use the scales & kill the shot before you hit that, so that it can run on after the pump has stopped & finish at 30g.

10g in:30g out is a brew ratio of 1:3. This just sets the strength, the flavour balance is dictated by grind setting. With the single basket & a 10.0g dose, I enjoy shots up to 40, or 50g, sometimes more.

There are plenty of slim jewellery scales available on Amazon, I use these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Digital-Pocket-Scale-Germany/dp/B00W3JSKGM/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1543926947&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=dipse%2Bscales&th=1

You don't need to tamp with great force. Tamp flat, tamp once, you just need to tamp the puck so that the steel band on the tamper is obscured by the basket. If the dose doesn't fit into the basket you are either putting more than 10g in there, or your coffee could be too coarse. Either way, try 9.0g?

The DTP has 10sec preinfusion, not seeing any drips until then is normal & not indicative of anything in itself.


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## tuk (Nov 24, 2018)

I've ordered some scales.

To get 30g out I would be looking at most a 20 sec extraction, will this result in a weaker coffee taste in the finished product using the same amount of milk?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tuk said:


> I've ordered some scales.
> 
> To get 30g out I would be looking at most a 20 sec extraction, will this result in a weaker coffee taste in the finished product using the same amount of milk?


Simplify the process. To get 30g out, you just need to get 30g out.

If this takes 10-15sec, it is likely that it will be under-extracted (sour). If you can't grind finer (using preground), then you will have to settle for more coffee in the cup. Extract the weight of coffee (for that 10g in) that tastes nicest. Don't try and slow the shot down by tamping the living daylights out of the puck.

If the coffee you get in the cup is weaker, then yes, you might want to add a little less milk. The more water you run through the puck the more diluted the espresso will be. The more milk you add to the espresso, the more diluted the final drink will be.

How big a drink are you aiming to make (espresso & milk all together in ml)?


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## tuk (Nov 24, 2018)

I'm aiming for a 250ml drink.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

tuk said:


> I'm aiming for a 250ml drink.


That may well be a pretty weak drink with a single basket.


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## tuk (Nov 24, 2018)

Given the next basket up is 18g and target cup is 250ml, what formula would you guys suggest based on what I've said so far?

I'm happy try to more than one suggestion to see what works.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

18g in & start around 3 times that out for the shot, settle on weight out that gives best flavour.

You're basically limited by dose & cup size.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Bored at work and just browsing the forums, this thread was on the first page so not sure I can be held accountable for reviving an old thread.

tuk - MWJB has given you the information you need. Concentrate on weight in/weight out to begin with and aim for somewhere around 30-35 seconds at a ratio of 1:2 or 1:3. From my understanding these are typical espresso ratios and will get you in the right ballpark. Once I'm approaching my target weight out I know I have a few seconds to remove the scales and cup and I make a note of the time whilst doing so. A set of small scales with an in-built timer may help you here.



dfk41 said:


> You cannot make espresso with pre ground coffee....


I would say you definitely can. I know there is probably a world of difference between using pre ground and freshly ground but you can get a semi-decent drink for sure. I haven't been playing around with my DTP for long and I can confidently say I'm making better espressos than some I've paid good money for. All with pre ground. I'm probably in for a nice surprise once I start grinding.



tuk said:


> I'm aiming for a 250ml drink.


For this size of drink I'd say you need to use the double pressurised basket. Give it a go and as MWJB said don't worry too much about temp pressure. Concentrate on getting the puck flat so that water doesn't flow to one particular side.



tuk said:


> Given the next basket up is 18g and target cup is 250ml, what formula would you guys suggest based on what I've said so far?
> 
> I'm happy try to more than one suggestion to see what works.


Same formula as above. 1:2 or 1:3.

Just practice and then practice some more. Milk doesn't cost much and neither does half decent ground coffee. Get used to the steps involved in the process and try to pick out flavors in your drink.


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