# Changing tastes



## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

7 years ago, I used to grab a massive latte from Starbucks on my way to work. I put on lots of weight, so I eventually stopped.

About 3 years ago, I decided I wanted to have a play with coffee, and specifically wanted to learn about espresso, because hey it wouldn't be calorific and I never understood the drink. My perception at that time was that it came in ridiculously tiny cups and must be stupidly strong, and couldn't possibly taste nice.

I started with a Bacchi, then a Caravel, then a Ponte Vecchio, all fed from a Pharos. Beans were from Hasbean and Londinium. I couldn't handle espresso, so I stuck to flat whites at first, and started frequenting decent coffee bars in London to try to learn about the taste. Over the 3 years, I have gradually progressed from latte->flat white->cortado->espresso. I think most likely cortado is my drink. I miss that splash of milk a bit in an espresso.

I now find myself with a Cremina and an HG One. I have stopped wondering whether the equipment is working properly, and started trusting the tastes (the first sip of an espresso gone wrong always used to be a tense moment). Here's the thing, though, I am finding that I am going off this fruity, citrusy stuff and starting to really gravitate towards the chocolatey darker stuff.

This is quite a change. It also means I don't know where in London I can buy espresso/cortado which matches the tastes I am getting at home. Just throwing this out there to see what discussion it generates, if any. Would definitely be interested to hear of places serving these sort of flavours. I am not sure, but is this more like the italian coffee than the third wave, or is there more to it than that?

Anyway, I've been loving batch 3 of the Bella Barista Gaslight, and also just got my guest slot of the DSOL which I also like a lot.


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Up until recently I would have mentioned the Grind coffee bar in Westfield Stratford because they were making coffee of that taste, but talking to them the other week they told me the London coffee scene now favours the more citrus notes. I to prefer the darker roasts which they use to do so well but I'm not a big fan of the new wave sweeping the coffee bars, I told them this and also asked if they're selling their old blend, but alas no! Not even blending that at the moment..

I think you'd be hard pushed to find your taste selling at a coffee bar as they do tend to cater for medium roasts which I'm led to believe, is what the "Public" wants


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There must be places selling say redchurch blend by allpress which is a medium plus nice epsresso blend ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Allpress cafe is only a couple of miles/two tubes stops from Stratford


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Think they use atkinson archetype here.

This is a medium plus chocolate nutty blend also

http://www.houseandgarden.co.uk/food/restaurant-bar-reviews/best-london-coffee-shops/ja-cafe-islington


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

try New Row Coffee, they were using a medium-dark Union roast when I was there in January.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Must be places using the union blends too


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Think they use atkinson archetype here.
> 
> This is a medium plus chocolate nutty blend also
> 
> http://www.houseandgarden.co.uk/food/restaurant-bar-reviews/best-london-coffee-shops/ja-cafe-islington


That's not far from work, I'll give them a try! Thanks a lot Mr Boots.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

wintoid said:


> That's not far from work, I'll give them a try! Thanks a lot Mr Boots.


Check which blend they run

Archetype u might like

Prototype u might not ..


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Soll said:


> ...they told me the London coffee scene now favours the more citrus notes...
> 
> I think you'd be hard pushed to find your taste selling at a coffee bar as they do tend to cater for medium roasts which I'm led to believe, is what the "Public" wants


I agree that the public at large wants less acidity and citrus and more toffee and nutty flavours

There is a growing voice of people opposing lighter roasts and going for more blends vs SO's displaying these traits


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As said before toffee and chocolate and nutty tastes aren't at the exclusive of darker style roasts.. A blends with a range of beans put together well can deliver a chocolate bomb. At just before ,after or beyond 2nd crack.

Plenty of medium style 2nd crack roasted beans deliver these notes too.

Sometimes to confuse what tasting notes you want exclusively with the colour or lenght of roast ( either way dark or light ) can be misleading and stop people discovering tasty coffee based on vague assumptions or colour.

Look at tasting notes with an open mind , not based on the colour of a bean


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Ozone roast a bit darker too, they're near Old St


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Ozone roast a bit darker too, they're near Old St


I think I looked for Ozone once but couldn't find them. I assumed they'd closed down...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Website says they're still open. That bit beside Old St is a bit confusing but it's right off City Road, that's probably the easiest way to approach it


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

My problem is that I am ill educated and somewhat ignorant (in coffee I hasten to add  ).

In the dim and distant past I was introduced to espresso/coffee in a grotty (Italian run) greasy spoon cafe in the east end of London...

"Peters Cafe"... I used to go with my dad on highdays and holidays....

"Peter" used to make me what I would probably call a latte nowadays but then was a milky coffee! (Made from an espresso topped up in a mug with steamed milk). My dad (and most of the various English geezers) drank variations of this. The variations ranged from the espresso watered down (americano) with or without added milk (steamed or cold) through various ratios of steamed milk (flat white, capo, latte) - None of these coffees had "poncy" names... "Peter" just made them as required for his customers....

Occasionally my visits coincided with some of the old guard (Giuseppe, Luigi, Francesco, Vito etc) - who just called to whoever was serving 'presso as they wandered to their table and the never ending game of Backgammon....

They were served with a smidgen of this really weird elixir in what seemed like a thimble....

Every now and then one of them would nod to the server and hold up a few fingers and more of the magical 'presso would eventually appear (these old geezers never seemed in any rush to be served and the staff knew this - obviously to my young mind 'presso wasn't something to be rushed)

One day old Giuseppe/Guido/Vito saw me watching and beckoned me over and proffered one of the magical 'presso cups for me to taste!

I had a sip and was gob smacked! It was waaaaaaaaay to strong for my palate but I "just knew" it was proper coffee....

For years I tried to get my Dad to "get" some espresso - but he never did. Other than a heaped shovel of gut rot instant in a mug (espresso apparently is/was "just" strong coffee) the closest I came to real coffee at home was pre-ground floor sweepings being boiled to b*ggery for hours in a "percolator"... which tasted like stewed sh*te...

When I left home and travelled a bit I discovered that this 'presso was available "abroad"... (French influenced) Africa, France, Spain, Italy.

And I used to really enjoy the "exotic" magic thimble once or twice a year...

Much, much later Coffee Chains appeared.... and 'presso (plus other really poncy sounding things) was available on the high street.

Now this 'presso was...... well to be honest 'orrible... the only way to make it palatable was to drown it in gallons of milk... which (as we all know) is exactly what they did!!

So for years I drank buckets of brown hot milk shake..... but strangely when I was abroad I could still get espresso that could be drunk and enjoyed neat....

Then of course I discovered CFUK and "real" coffee and now I am beginning to understand that I am only on the first steps of understanding coffee and in all honesty I don't actually know what it is that I like!

Hence experimenting with everything from LSOL to DSOL to BBs freebies.........

I "think" my palate is probably towards the lighter end of the scale but I am still heavily influenced by Giuseppe/Guido and being grown up drinking coffee with my Dad!


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

Drewster said:


> Then of course I discovered CFUK and "real" coffee and now I am beginning to understand that I am only on the first steps of understanding coffee and in all honesty I don't actually know what it is that I like!


Thanks, I enjoyed your post, but especially good to read this, which is pretty similar to where I'm at


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Think they use atkinson archetype here.
> 
> This is a medium plus chocolate nutty blend also
> 
> http://www.houseandgarden.co.uk/food/restaurant-bar-reviews/best-london-coffee-shops/ja-cafe-islington


Managed to find this place at lunch today. Like it, might go and eat there one day. They didn't know what a cortado was, but with a bit of guidance they rustled me one up for £1.20 which has to be the cheapest cortado I've had in London. Didn't taste particularly dark to me, but they may have used too much milk. I'll go back a few times and see if I can form an opinion. Will also try Ozone at some point.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

wintoid said:


> Managed to find this place at lunch today. Like it, might go and eat there one day. They didn't know what a cortado was, but with a bit of guidance they rustled me one up for £1.20 which has to be the cheapest cortado I've had in London. Didn't taste particularly dark to me, but they may have used too much milk. I'll go back a few times and see if I can form an opinion. Will also try Ozone at some point.


Did it taste ok? Dark or not ?

Again depends on the blend they are using

Coffee is only as good as the barista making it









I've never been there , glad it wasn't a total waste

Cheers


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

Certainly no problems with the taste, and I enjoyed it, but didn't seem all that dark to me, no. As I said, that could be because they made it a bit milkier than I expected (no froth, no latte art). I'm also wondering whether at £1.20 they only used a single shot, and I am used to a double. I'll go back and try again at some point







Certainly NOT a wasted trip, I love trying out new places.


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