# Do you really need darker roasts with milky coffee?



## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Ordered some Guatemalan decaf from Redber this morning and when I said I drink milky coffee I got 'you'll want a dark roast, definitely not medium'. So I ordered a dark and a medium dark roast to see if I could tell the difference. Maybe I should have ordered a medium to see if this is myth or accepted truth.

I'm fairly new to my coffee obsession, and I'd like to here a variety of views on this. Why not medium roasts with milk, or indeed something lighter?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Generally milky drinks need the strength you get from a dark roast to punch through the milk for taste.

Huge generalisation of course


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

No


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I'm light roast addict and mainly drink flat whites (with 85g milk). I've had some stunning coffees recently.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Like Mildred, I am a LSOL fan. Here is a 2nd mention in as many days from me for FoundryCoffeeRoasters Rocko Mountain. It works beautifully with milk (as well as lonesome as an espresso). I take a milky one (far more milk than a FW) in my keep cup on my morning commute. I'd say a dark roast is in no way a pre-requisite for a milk based coffee, think it is more about the personality of the bean.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

no you don't IMO


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

You get cracking good cuppas with lighter roasts and milk


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cortados are OK - no more than 1:1 milk to espresso, otherwise the the beans' unique flavour characteristics get completely overwhelmed.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Cortados are OK - no more than 1:1 milk to espresso, otherwise the the beans' unique flavour characteristics get completely overwhelmed.


I find it depends on the bean. Union's bobolink is light roast & cut through milk well at higher ratios.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's not a fight between the milk and the coffee - they should complement rather than punch each other.

If the shot is sufficiently strong you shouldn't have any problems getting (e.g.) berry flavours or more subtle notes coming through from a natural in anything up to 8oz drinks.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But if you are producing coffee for the masses, I bet a darker roast as a cuppa or flat white will be more popular than a lighter roast. I am not saying artisan small shops will agree but look at the high street and what they use. It is a difficult question, because if the ratios are right, then you ought to be able to make a decent cuppa with any sort of bean


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

You don't need a darker roast to punch through milk, Light roast do just fine. That said some varietes tend to be more suited than others.

But even that greatly depends on terroir and processing, and not at least individual preferences, personally i'm not a huge fan of acidic berry, fruity bombs in milk, so usually prefer the more spicy, nutty, chocolate like characteristics.

The more acidic, clarity fruity, floral coffee I prefer straight, in some cases these can be okay in an americano, but I rarely find them enjoyable in milk as I find the beverage unbalanced.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> It's not a fight between the milk and the coffee - they should complement rather than punch each other.
> 
> If the shot is sufficiently strong you shouldn't have any problems getting (e.g.) berry flavours or more subtle notes coming through from a natural in anything up to 8oz drinks.


completely agree with this


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> But if you are producing coffee for the masses, I bet a darker roast as a cuppa or flat white will be more popular than a lighter roast. I am not saying artisan small shops will agree but look at the high street and what they use. It is a difficult question, because if the ratios are right, then you ought to be able to make a decent cuppa with any sort of bean


I agree with this too, especially the first sentence.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I agree too ^^^^

As an aside, I always struggle with the word 'strong' in relation to coffee taste, if that makes sense.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> I agree too ^^^^
> 
> As an aside, I always struggle with the word 'strong' in relation to coffee taste, if that makes sense.


Strong isn't a taste , its a function of the relationship between the amount of coffee and water used.

I guess it's starbucks ftw , the masses love them a big bucker o burnt crap. I can attest it really "punches" through milk. It punched me right in the stomach.

On a side note, I don't really care what the masses prefer for coffee, if I did i wouldnt be on this forum, I would be drinking instant


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> But if you are producing coffee for the masses, I bet a darker roast as a cuppa or flat white will be more popular than a lighter roast. I am not saying artisan small shops will agree but look at the high street and what they use. It is a difficult question, because if the ratios are right, then you ought to be able to make a decent cuppa with any sort of bean


The masses want coffee that tastes like 'coffee', a dark roast will facilitate that more

There's also other benefits to darker roasts for chains, like they can use less and still have it 'punch through milk' and it might suit quicker extraction times/be more forgiving of less experienced baristas


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> The masses want coffee that tastes like 'coffee', a dark roast will facilitate that more
> 
> There's also other benefits to darker roasts for chains, like they can use less and still have it 'punch through milk' and it might suit quicker extraction times/be more forgiving of less experienced baristas


And it allows then to " personalise your drink " by adding loads of sugary crap to the bucket


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Back in the day if I had a Starbucks I'd have to buy something sweet as well to offset the bitterness of the coffee (Rocky Road) would be genius if the beans were roasted so dark for that purpose...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Back in the day if I had a Starbucks I'd have to buy something sweet as well to offset the bitterness of the coffee (Rocky Road) would be genius if the beans were roasted so dark for that purpose...


They are ( IMHO ).......







it works , Makes people buy sweet things and add stuff to em like syrups etc, personalises the drink , makes em feel special. Plus super forgiving for the machines they use.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> They are ( IMHO ).......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We've totally got their number Mr Boots


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Strong isn't a taste , its a function of the relationship between the amount of coffee and water used.


Exactly! But often you hear 'I want my coffee strong' when you ask what taste notes they like











> I guess it's starbucks ftw , the masses love them a big bucker o burnt crap. I can attest it really "punches" through milk. It punched me right in the stomach.
> 
> On a side note, I don't really care what the masses prefer for coffee, if I did i wouldnt be on this forum, I would be drinking instant


I'd pay to see it!


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> The masses want coffee that tastes like 'coffee', a dark roast will facilitate that more
> 
> There's also other benefits to darker roasts for chains, like they can use less and still have it 'punch through milk' and it might suit quicker extraction times/be more forgiving of less experienced baristas


I doubt that the masses are even considering that coffee can taste in a variety of ways, for the masses coffee is coffee (often defined and described as good or bad), they aren't choosing starbucks (or another coffee chain) because it taste of coffee, they choose it for the sake of convenience, as chains are often located at central locations, offer a variety of sugary sweet coffee beverages that taste more like a dessert than a coffee and has a brand that holds a certain amount of important value in social contexts.

Most people in starbucks dump their caps and latte with sugar, this indicate that they are trying to counter the bitterness.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

malling said:


> I doubt that the masses are even considering that coffee can taste in a variety of ways, for the masses coffee is coffee, they aren't choosing starbucks (or another coffee chain) because it taste of coffee, they choose it for the sake of convenience, as chains are often located at central locations, offer a variety of sugary sweet coffee beverages that taste more like a dessert than a coffee and has a brand that holds a certain amount of important value in social contexts.
> 
> Most people in starbucks dump their caps and latte with sugar, this indicate that they are trying to counter the bitterness.


This has reminded me of a coffee shop I called to (for a cup of tea, thankfully) and I spotted them using instant coffee, adding hot water from their 2 group machine (on a side counter, facing away from their customers) and topping it up with frothed milk!!! They were busy serving the whole time I sat there (probably with jaw-dropping disbelief)! Mind you, instant may be better than some of the stuff produced by a small minority of untrained staff wielding a portafilter.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

I've read through the comments, and can confirm how meh the decaf is from Starbucks - proved to me I've come along way since acquiring decent machines. I had what I assumed were the same Guatemalan Jalapa CO2 beans from James and Rave, and the James had more notes and variety.The Rave was heavier, and I assume a darker roast. I've only been making 'proper' unpressurised shots for a few weeks, but I can now reliably put together a sweet and rich tasting dark roast cup with milk in a brew ratio of between 1:1 and 1:2. So now I want more - more flavour, more notes. I could go for longer extraction times but that has drawbacks, so I'm thinking lighter roasts may be the key. I'm encouraged to believe that this could work, and take on board that it may be a case of increasing the quantity of coffee to make it 'stronger' i.e. use 16g instead of 14g or something like that, like updosing. I have the standard double basket for the Classic.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

The combination of milk and coffee IMO should be a compliment of each component. If you're looking for a milk drink that tasted like 'faakin coffee and milk m8', sure, go for a charlatte. If you are looking for a drink that tastes of all the good characteristics of both components; milk (sweetness, creaminess, silky body etc), and coffee (juicy, fruity, sherbet, whatever) then the two should compliment each other well.

It can be done.

Milk is as important to a drink as water, if you're diluting your brew with it.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

malling said:


> You don't need a darker roast to punch through milk, Light roast do just fine. That said some varietes tend to be more suited than others.
> 
> But even that greatly depends on terroir and processing, and not at least individual preferences, personally i'm not a huge fan of acidic berry, fruity bombs in milk, so usually prefer the more spicy, nutty, chocolate like characteristics.
> 
> The more acidic, clarity fruity, floral coffee I prefer straight, in some cases these can be okay in an americano, but I rarely find them enjoyable in milk as I find the beverage unbalanced.


I third this also.

For my tastes minimum of medium roast for milk based drinks, espresso I prefer fruity light roasts.


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## Luke. (Feb 20, 2018)

Interesting to read this thread. I had wondered if I would be a le to taste fruit notes with milk added.


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## DougalMcGuire (Feb 21, 2016)

igm45 said:


> I third this also.
> 
> For my tastes minimum of medium roast for milk based drinks, espresso I prefer fruity light roasts.


I'm the same. Americano or a cold brew with lighter roasts. Darker roasts for a 150-160ml flat white. There's room in my life and larder for both, but I'm yet to find anything that can do it all for me.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

I did a small test by ordering Decaf Guatemala from Redber in both Medium Dark and Dark. The Med.Dark was more interesting - the dark lost a lot of notes which got rather bland, though it did have the usual rich chocolatey taste. I'm really after more notes here.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> I did a small test by ordering Decaf Guatemala from Redber in both Medium Dark and Dark. The Med.Dark was more interesting - the dark lost a lot of notes which got rather bland, though it did have the usual rich chocolatey taste. I'm really after more notes here.


What kind of notes or taste are you actually wanting to experience ?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> What kind of notes or taste are you actually wanting to experience ?


Some decaf that works with milk. Best so far have been Guatemalan Jalapa from James Gourmet - not sure of the roast there, but it was complex and interesting and not too heavy. And believe it or not, M&S House Decaf - 100% Columbian arabica - which I ground espresso fine. I wasn't overly impressed with roasts from Redber or Rave. Got a nice Columbia Sugarcane from Horsham, though it was a bit sweet, and an interesting Sumatran from Decadent Decaf. Haven't tried Decadent's Kenyan but no doubt should. Because I got such good results last time, I ordered James' Sierra decaf from Mexico.


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