# Cheap daily driver - SF Bay?



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

I appreciate all of the good reasons why people buy the higher priced speciality stuff, so I don't want to sound like an inverse snob. I'm more interested in whether those who have good palates and experience of a wider range of beans can comment on the stuff I'm drinking from actual experience.

I started using SF Bay stuff from Costco a few years ago because it is cheap, and now I get their French Roast bags from Amazon almost exclusively as my beverage of choice. £6.99 for a 908g bag puts it cheaper than the various Lidl options and about 1/3 the price of a reputable speciality roaster (at least!).

I've not seen any reviews _based on actual tastings_ here or elsewhere, and before I start venturing into the smaller, more specialist roasters now I've got a Niche and a PID'd Gaggia Classic I'm curious to see if anyone else on here uses the SF Bay stuff at all. 

Obviously, if I'm drinking something I like then that is a "good thing". But has anyone else other than me tried it?


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I don't think you will have many / if any discuss the beans you are using. As the quality and freshness of the beans is a major component in the quality of the drink I think you are short changing yourself with a good grinder and a PID'ed Classic. You have the tools and are ( in my opinion) using lesser quality beans.
If the beans suit your palate / taste stick with them but you are missing out on so much more, the variety of tastes / flavours and so much more enjoyment.
I think you have to break the mindset of pence per cup, enjoy what you drink😁


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

But, just for interest, have you tried the SF Bay beans? 

They might actually actually be quite good, despite the price!

(I will start to experiment with others though!)


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Just to expand on that thought for a second, and (hopefully) not sounding like someone just looking for a fight (!), I am 100% on board with the idea that both from an ethical / social perspective (in terms of money flowing to the producers in less developed countries, and through the supply chain) and from a quality perspective the majority of speciality roasters and vendors will be producing a higher quality product than I am consuming currently via the SF Bay branded stuff. 

But equally, there are "good reports" of some cheaper brands from time to time (Lidl or Aldi's options, for example) so it's not a universal truth that all cheap beans are so significantly inferior to speciality roaster stuff that there isn't merit in those with good palates giving some of these cheaper options a try. Especially as times are getting more financially pressed, finding a half decent option that is also cheap will be of benefit, and perhaps make the luxury of a bag of specialist coffee even more special when it can be afforded.

Maybe that could / should be a different thread with some discussion mileage - reviews of beans that are available in the sub £2.00 for 250g bracket - which could and should include options to avoid like the plague as well as ones which are "hidden gems" (or at least half decent daily driver coffees for those on a budget).


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

If you like them then stick with them,


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

cuprajake said:


> If you like them then stick with them,


Of course, that's a truism. But I am open to trying new things and want to explore coffee more. If I try various specialist options and find I don't like it, then of course I'd revert back to where I am now.

I'm not advocating that specialist coffees aren't excellent, superior, intriguing, delicious etc. I was just after an insight as to whether anyone that has gone on that journey of tasting fine coffees and understanding the flavour profiles (and how to get them delivered in a cup) has also tried the beans I'm using without dismissing them out of hand as being poor without trying them. 

If no-one has, then so be it!


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

larkim said:


> But, just for interest, have you tried the SF Bay beans?
> 
> They might actually actually be quite good, despite the price!
> 
> (I will start to experiment with others though!)


I have just looked at some of the reviews on Amazon , I will decline to try them.Thanks.


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

The issues you had are the beans though, 
It may be worth buying something like a kilo of a good bean to learn to dial them in, 

What setting do you grind the SB beans at on your niche


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

As arbitrary as it is in terms of Niche calibration, they are getting ground at about 7 for espresso (16g in, 32g out in about 25-30s). But a) the Niche is new so not yet well seasoned and b) I've not tried "better" beans to see what they need to be ground at in my Niche. I'll keep this thread alive with a purchase of some good stuff shortly and then report back!!


----------



## General-S-1 (Jul 27, 2015)

I was gifted some sf bay rainforest blend organic beans from costco. They were horrible, this was quite a few years ago, i was relatively new to coffee, never again.
If you enjoy them, thats all that matters
Doesnt matter what anyone else says/thinks


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

I know niches are all calibrated different, but to show the difference 16g of a med light roast ground at 14 will choke my leva at 10.5

Decaf beans tend to get down as low as you 

Perhaps 1kg of this 









Signature Blend


Roast Level Medium Tasting Notes Dark, bold and rich. Notes of chocolate, honey and a lingering nutty aftertaste What's in it? A blend of Brazilian, Indonesian and Central American. What is it good for? Espresso, Aeropress Additional Notes All our passion, experience and philosophy in a blend! A...



www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk





If you search there's a forum code for discount too.


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

I’m, kinda, in the same boat. Though I’ve just trawled through roasts, from different roasters, and still haven’t found what I’m looking for. Yet I can find it on a supermarket shelf. Maybe, just maybe, supermarket coffee is the limit, of my palette.


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

What flavours do you like.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Bhodgson said:


> I’m, kinda, in the same boat. Though I’ve just trawled through roasts, from different roasters, and still haven’t found what I’m looking for. Yet I can find it on a supermarket shelf. Maybe, just maybe, supermarket coffee is the limit, of my palette.


That's interesting. I don't yet know whether I might not get on with different roasts from different roasters (though if I don't, I will be very jealous of those who do get on with them and find exquisite pleasure from it), but interesting to know that for some palates the "supermarket" flavour is the one they like. 

As a coincidence, a work colleague just had an erroneous delivery of Starbucks beans which Amazon don't want him to return so he has gifted them to me. I know that sort of stuff is anathema here, but it will at least give me the chance to do a compare and contrast between the SF Bay stuff and the SB stuff.

And I'll get an order in for something else too. One of the reasons for buying the Niche was so that I could experiment and diversify.


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

larkim said:


> That's interesting. I don't yet know whether I might not get on with different roasts from different roasters (though if I don't, I will be very jealous of those who do get on with them and find exquisite pleasure from it), but interesting to know that for some palates the "supermarket" flavour is the one they like.
> 
> As a coincidence, a work colleague just had an erroneous delivery of Starbucks beans which Amazon don't want him to return so he has gifted them to me. I know that sort of stuff is anathema here, but it will at least give me the chance to do a compare and contrast between the SF Bay stuff and the SB stuff.
> 
> And I'll get an order in for something else too. One of the reasons for buying the Niche was so that I could experiment and diversify.


As long as it’s not their blonde, It’s not a bad coffee. Not long on the tongue, but in your face, initially. plays well with milk too. 
I have high hopes for the Monsoon Malabar, that’s winging it’s way to me, now.
always remember, when I speak of taste. I spent 40 years killing my nose receptors, with cigarettes. So I may not, always, be the best judge. 😂


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Got a selection of 3x options from Coffee Compass on the way. £30 for 1500g vs £7 for 908g, will be interesting if I can get to grips with the taste differences.

Had a cup of the Starbucks espresso this morning - unsurprisingly it tasted like Starbucks coffee, and for me that's a "good thing" (heresy, I know!)


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

What did you choose


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

I think I went for Sweet Bourbon, Cherry Cherry and Mahogany Roast Jampit. Almost all entirely based on names as the descriptive stuff went "whoosh" over my head, but I tried to avoid anything which explicitly said "it'll taste just like Starbucks" ;-)

I'm prepared for the experiment to show that I don't like any of them; nothing ventured, nothing gained!


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

Lol. That was the next roaster, on my list, to visit.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

3x bags arrived yesterday, all roasted Wednesday according to the labels. Now just need to work out what the best storage / usage pattern is, though perhaps at my early stage of tasting prowess it is fine just to open a bag, tip it into a mason jar and crack on with use.


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

Yeah. I couldn’t resist a first try. But they are, probably, best left for a week, before you start using it. I divide into zip bags and, as long as I know I’ll get through it all in a month, I store them in a dark cool corner of my pantry (yep, I’ve still got one. Lol) personally, I freeze all dark roast, I’m not using. Or if.I think it’ll take me more than a month to get through. I freeze all beans.
might be worth dropping the vendor a message. They usually reply with good advice on storage.


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

I'd use the darkest first as it will degas quickest.


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

cuprajake said:


> I'd use the darkest first as it will degas quickest.


That’s why I tend to freeze them, if it’s more than 200-250g, anyway.


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@larkim you will have to let us know how the beans dial in and how they differ, if at all to the stuff you have been using.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Couldn't quite be bothered waiting 7-10 days for CO2 to disperse, so cracked open the Sweet Bourbon. Was lighter roasted than I was expecting (visually) but got dialled in quickly to remarkably similar settings to the Starbucks Espresso or the SF Bay (every so slightly coarser on the Niche). Had some of the flavour of a lighter roast that I don't think I really like; but I can't work out whether to describe it as acidic or bitter! Nonetheless, perfectly pleasant to drink. At the moment, definitely not worth 3x the coffee I normally drink. OTOH it was particularly nice in ice cold tonic (Fever Tree) and the Americano I made with it was quite different to my usual brew - not sure different = better. 

But will need to give it a few more days of experimenting a little to find it's sweet spot; will take a look at the tasting notes and see what I should be tasting!


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

Thanks for the heads up. That’s one roast I’ll avoid from CC.
the Rave Monsoon Malabar, whist being a very nice coffee, just still doesn’t doesn’t hit the spot, for me.

so I’m going to follow @larkim to CC and do a mix and match £30 order. Though I’m going for only those stated as Mahogany roast.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Latest update. Resisted for a 10 day period before opening the Jampit option. Nicer than the Sweet Bourbon and both of them definitely grind "nicer" than the other coffees in the house, but I still am playing the heathen and preferring the freebie bags of Starbucks espresso and the SF Bay French Roast. 

The "speciality" coffees have their place; I've become partial to an ice cold tonic + espresso and they do seem to work better in those. And they are not unpleasant, just not quite the taste I'm looking for.

One oddity for me is that they all (SF Bay, Starbucks and the two CC options) all grind at much the same setting and yield in similar volumes. I was half hoping there'd be a much bigger difference. The one really noticeable difference is that the Starbucks stuff generates more static in so I get more grinds left behind in the Niche grinding cup; the two CC options just tip out without any need for drops of water stirred into them etc.

Not opened the Cherry Cherry yet.


----------



## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

larkim said:


> ...I still am playing the heathen and preferring the freebie bags of Starbucks espresso and the SF Bay French Roast.


I believe there's a special place in Hell for your "kind" 

Ejoy your coffee


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

It's odd isn't it. I genuinely believe that if you came round to my house and I served you either the SF Bay or the *$ stuff you'd prefer it! But maybe I'm brewing all wrong


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

Well the coming Espresso batch, from Coffee Compass, is my last attempt. If I don’t find something close to what I’m looking for, I’m back on the Supermarket beans, for a while.
maybe my olfactory sense is just too shot, and I’m just wasting money and time.


----------



## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Bhodgson said:


> ...maybe my olfactory sense is just too shot, and I’m just wasting money and time.


Is the "hands on" process/act of making the coffee not worth the money or your time...or is it just a simple drink, no more no less ?

To me the whole workflow and hands on experience is such a pleasure, i don't rush any part of it and i don't even begrudge cleaning up afterwards...and at the end of it i get a drink that brings me joy...if it doesn't i change brew method next time round. Either way the money and time are well spent...if i want to save both then i make a cup of Earl Grey.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

I get joy from the process, definitely. It's when the final output is less tasty via the few speciality roasts I've tried than the more mass market beans that it becomes underwhelming.

It's frustrating seeing all these posts about delicious roasts and doing your best to emulate the process when the cheap and cheerful beans end up with the cup that gives the most joy!


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

Rincewind said:


> Is the "hands on" process/act of making the coffee not worth the money or your time...or is it just a simple drink, no more no less ?
> 
> To me the whole workflow and hands on experience is such a pleasure, i don't rush any part of it and i don't even begrudge cleaning up afterwards...and at the end of it i get a drink that brings me joy...if it doesn't i change brew method next time round. Either way the money and time are well spent...if i want to save both then i make a cup of Earl Grey.


No. I actually love the process. But the process won’t change, just, because I’ve fallen back on Supermarket beans.

i also have loved the act of trying different roast and different roasters. But, ultimately, I’m on my own coffee journey. And the places it’s taken me, just haven’t hit the spot.

my point was. It may be impossible for me to find what I’m looking for, from a specialist roaster. Because I no longer have the ability to taste the differences.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

What has surprised me so far is that it feels like "great specialist coffee" isn't like "fine wines". I'd more or less expect everyone to agree that a fine wine particular variety and style, properly served, tastes objectively "better" than a mass market product of the same style / variety. Maybe not so much better that it justifies the price differential, but something like a "Tesco finest Shiraz" shouldn't taste better than a shiraz from a top Australian producer.

At the moment, based on the two speciality coffees I've tried, they just taste "worse". Not just different, but less good. And I'm trying to do justice to the speciality stuff by treating it properly. And trying not to be blinkered; I'm open to spending a bit more for something "better" and I'm open to learning how to discern the various "better" flavours in the cup.

What I really need is for an expert barista to serve me the best cup they can make out of my "normal" beans and a range of "better" beans. 

Maybe my buying is flawed; maybe I've tried to get coffees from CC which are sufficiently "different" to the roasts I normally drink that I was never going to be satisfied, so there'll be a next stage experiment where I try to find coffees from speciality roasters which are more or less advertised as "like Starbucks espresso but a whole lot better". Any suggestions for that sort of bean I'd gratefully receive!


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

dont forget some machines are limited to what they can do, grinders too, 

i mean you could spent £30 on 150g of beans but if your grinding it in a delongih blade grinder and sticking it through a cookworks espresso machine the result will be pants.

i agree some beans are better than others and ive had duds, thats why i recommend the north star Brazil as i know its a steady roast


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Yes, but I've got a Niche and a PID'd and OPV'd Gaggia Classic. So whilst I am missing plenty of bells and whistles that could undoubtedly improve things, I'd like to think I'm at least on the right side of the line in terms of having kit that can deliver a lot out of good beans.

I'll try NorthStar next time around after I've cleared out the CC stuff.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

What might be helpful though is being able to turn what I like out of the Starbucks / SF Bay stuff into words that match retailers descriptions. I've no idea whether I like "Dark Chocolate / Plum / Pecan" flavoured coffee! Especailly when the more detailed tasting notes then add "stone fruit with a delicate nutty finish" and if milked then goes "full of sweet milk chocolate and rich pecan notes".

I dunno; it tastes of coffee to me!


----------



## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Bhodgson said:


> Well the coming Espresso batch, from Coffee Compass, is my last attempt. If I don’t find something close to what I’m looking for, I’m back on the Supermarket beans, for a while.
> maybe my olfactory sense is just too shot, and I’m just wasting money and time.


Well if you don’t like it let me know


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Tried the Sweet Bourbon today in an aeropress made to Hoffman's recipe / method. That was pretty tasty!!


----------



## Bhodgson (11 mo ago)

larkim said:


> Tried the Sweet Bourbon today in an aeropress made to Hoffman's recipe / method. That was pretty tasty!!


I’ve just finished 250g of mahogany Malabar, from Coffee Compass. Now that’s more like it. Actually lovin this.
just about to start some dark roast espresso mocha, from the same company. And I’ve still got the mahogany Jampit Hit to try.
so far, it’s been a good month.


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

I've been drinking a lot more aeropress over the past week, using the CC coffees. Though i did revert to Starbucks at the weekend for a treat


----------



## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

My local Tesco had established a "craft coffee" section (I'm sure to the horror of many round here!) but for £8 I thought I'd try this 1kg bag of Lofberg beans https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/311794730 in the hope that it tasted like my beloved Starbucks ;-) 
Would value others' opinions but it wasn't super dark, all seemed pretty consistent and not a very "glossy" bean, and I'm actually quite enjoying it. Which is good as a kg will last me about 60 shots which is about 5 weeks of drinking, maybe a bit less.


----------

