# Grinder advice



## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

Hi

For several years I've been grinding my beans using a Krupps 75 which I bought in France 20 years ago. (I guess the nearest equivalent is the Krups Twin Blade Coffee Mill. a blade grinder).

As I get older I'm becoming a bit of a coffee snob and decided to buy me a better burr grinder.

As I only make single cups (filter) I don't need a huge, all bells & whistles machine and am considering getting a manual grinder. Many I've looked at seem a little awkward shape-wise to operate but the Hario Acrylic Coffee Grinder seems more practical/easier as it has a sucker mechanism on the bottom to fix it to the worktop. It uses ceramic, conical burrs, is small and reasonably priced.

Has anyone used this?

Your thoughts please


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## coyote (May 23, 2014)

Rupert, whatever you choose as yours grinder just bypass Hario as grinder. Everything else from Hario is really great but as grinder really bad.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

The sucker on the bottom of those suck, not in a good way either, it doesn't hold it in place when you start grinding, so you end up holding it and due to the shape its a real bitch to hold.

Spend your dosh on a rhino. or chuck another £50 at it and buy a made by knock from a re seller, not on the MBK website, unless you want to wait weeks/months for delivery.

Your link is not pointing at an Acrylic by the way.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I had Hario grinder as seen in the link. Pretty bad and inconsistent!

Donated to @DoubleShot who might have had better experience with it?


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

Thanks for the advice. One of these you reckon?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Yes, but what are you grinding for, espresso or brewed?

The rhino can be a task, more so if you are grinding for a lot of drinks per day.


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

froggystyle said:


> Yes, but what are you grinding for, espresso or brewed?
> 
> The rhino can be a task, more so if you are grinding for a lot of drinks per day.


I'm only grinding brewed (drip filter) and brewing 4 - 5 cups a day


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I would consider the feldgrind or hausgrind, its a bit more, but i have a rhino and hausgrind, the rhino will become tedious, the hausgrind/feldgrind will not as much.


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

Mmm... rather expensive. I think I may as well get an electric if I'm going to pay that much.

Maybe I'll rethink the whole issue.

Thanks


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

You could look at the Wilfa although I haven't personally seen one in the wild yet.

I have a Hario Skerton which is a good office friendly grinder for the chemex. Wouldn't want to be doing it 4 or 5 times a day!


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

You know, the more I think about it, it seems that one can spend an awful lot of cash just to perform the seemingly simple task of grinding a bean. When one can pay anything from a tenner to several hundred pounds to do just that, I wonder if our palates can really notice the difference. I'd hazard a guess that mine probably can't.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Probably tell the difference between a blade and a burr grinder, and be surprised at the difference. I'd hazard agreeing on if purely filter a super expensive one isn't necessary as you don't need the super fine grind. But others would doubtless disagree.


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

https://www.slurp.coffee/en/shop/wilfa-coffee-grinder-wscg-2/

very tempted with one of these to replace my electric De Longhi. Would I be able to tell the difference though?


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

http://londonsbestcoffee.com/news/product-review-wilfa-svart-coffee-grinder-available-from-workshop-coffee


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

I'm so close to buying one. Somebody please tell me why I shouldn't? Other than my wife will kill me......


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

These look ok actually. May get one for brewed :/


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Looks ok, same ballpark as a feldgrind though. I've been very impressed with my feld, a definite step up for the DeLonghi I had before. You'd be surprised at the difference, even when the functions of the two seem so similar. Hand grinding with the feld is also not such a big burden.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Rupert said:


> You know, the more I think about it, it seems that one can spend an awful lot of cash just to perform the seemingly simple task of grinding a bean. When one can pay anything from a tenner to several hundred pounds to do just that, I wonder if our palates can really notice the difference. I'd hazard a guess that mine probably can't.


You would. Go to a coffee shop that uses an EK43 for brewed and try a brew. Keep all other parameters the same and use a cheap grinder (easier said than done I know, but if they are amicable). You'll taste the difference.

You should also find it much easier to dial in on a better grinder.

It's actually really spurring how much affect grinders have on taste.


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

Well that's me £70 lighter & in need of a good excuse to give the wife.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Jez H said:


> Well that's me £70 lighter & in need of a good excuse to give the wife.


On the wilfa? post a review when you get it, tempted to get one for brewed for myself.


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

aaronb said:


> On the wilfa? post a review when you get it, tempted to get one for brewed for myself.


Yep, the Wilfa. Bought for Brewed also. Expecting (& praying!) for a big improvement over my trusty De Longhi. Which to be honest has been great for 18 months. That & my Aeropress got me, cheaply, in to the wonderful world of proper coffee.

will post a review in a week or 2.


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

Where from for £70?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Might please you that the winner for this year's Danish Aeropess competition was using the Wilfa.



> Tania Arnfjord - 1st place:
> 
> 18g coffee / 250g water / 93 c temperature
> 
> ...


The rest were using EK43s. Wilfa is a quality brand and have been working with Tim Wendelbo for their drip machine..


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

James811 said:


> Where from for £70?


The link in Post 13


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

aaronb said:


> You would. Go to a coffee shop that uses an EK43 for brewed and try a brew. Keep all other parameters the same and use a cheap grinder (easier said than done I know, but if they are amicable). You'll taste the difference.
> 
> You should also find it much easier to dial in on a better grinder.
> 
> It's actually really spurring how much affect grinders have on taste.


Well, that would be interesting if I didn't know which grinder was used until after the tasting. In fact, double blind tests would be very interesting in all aspects of coffee making. I'd like to see some scientific proof of some of the claims of grinder manufacturers.

In reading through some of this forum I get the distinct sense that there is a lot of fetishism going on. Seriously, some people are spending many hundreds, if not thousands of pounds just to produce a cup of coffee. Now I understand that for some, beautiful design is a factor in choosing a grinder but me, I'm a utilitarian. I don't want to gaze in awe at a Rafino or whatever cool grinder is in vogue and go "Hey! Look at my expensive, stylish machinery", I just want a decent cup of coffee.

I'm not interested in 200 grind presets, variable grind speeds, timers, built-in scales, Borosilicate glass catchers or even UV protected bean containers - just a straightforward, reasonably priced device for the simple job of grinding coffee beans.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Rupert said:


> I don't want to gaze in awe at a Rafino or whatever cool grinder is in vogue and go "Hey! Look at my expensive, stylish machinery".


I'm glad you made the sentiments so easy to ignore by calling the rafino a grinder 



Rupert said:


> I'm not interested in 200 grind presets, variable grind speeds, timers, built-in scales, Borosilicate glass catchers or even UV protected bean containers - just a straightforward, reasonably priced device for the simple job of grinding coffee beans.


Well you say that now.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Rupert said:


> I don't want to gaze in awe at a Rafino or whatever cool grinder is in vogue and go "Hey! Look at my expensive, stylish machinery", I just want a decent cup of coffee.


Not 100% with you. I'm a girl. I like shiny things.

I'm also on a super tight budget.

Despite that, instead of getting a shiny new £150 grinder I spent all my money on a very beaten up super jolly. It sits in the corner like the dog everyone leaves at the pound because it's got 3 legs and a missing ear.

It's mechanically sound. It was the very best grinder I could afford, at the lowest possible price. I also have a cheap " household type (emide)" burr grinder. It's crap. I've always known that, I got it when I was working in a coffee shop (and again it was the best I could afford at about £10 on eBay)

They both grind coffee. The emide mostly takes a hammer to it and leaves variable chunks in a vague size. The super jolly produces a grind that I (like you just want coffee... Not grabbing a refractometer or sieves!) Can see by eye as "all the same size"

The coffee tastes better too.

Some things are possibly beyond the necessity line (cups that enhance the flavour profile... My eyes say "shiny" but my head says £20?!? For a cup? And I get the psychology of perception. Because of course drink tasting is multi sensory)

I've never ever drunk black coffee, even with nice beans. Now, with a super jolly at home, and nice beans ive started getting drinkable espresso and pour-over. No milk no sugar.

Buy the best grinder you can afford, for the best price you can. People here can guide on that. You will pay extra for certain dosing options or electronic kit. There are "premium brands"

But mostly coffee is a rare mix of scientific process and art. If we aren't foaming milk it's almost entirely science. Have you seen scientific equipment catalogues? It's not cheap to do things well and accurately!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rupert said:


> In fact, double blind tests would be very interesting in all aspects of coffee making. I'd like to see some scientific proof of some of the claims of grinder manufacturers.


What are these claims that grinder manufacturers make? Grinder specs are usually just technical info like grind speed, RPM, burr size, etc.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

MWJB said:


> What are these claims that grinder manufacturers make? Grinder specs are usually just technical info like grind speed, RPM, bur size, etc.


My grinder promised to make me a better lover, better housekeeper, and better conversationalist.

It lied. Now I think I have a claim, but the lawyers won't touch me. Apparently I need to come back when I'm not coated in coffee and gibbering at 200mph.


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## Jez H (Apr 4, 2015)

the_partisan said:


> Might please you that the winner for this year's Danish Aeropess competition was using the Wilfa.
> 
> The rest were using EK43s. Wilfa is a quality brand and have been working with Tim Wendelbo for their drip machine..


That does indeed please me! Can't wait now!

Looks like the price has gone back up & only available on back order from Slurp now:

https://www.slurp.coffee/en/shop/wilfa-coffee-grinder-wscg-2/


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

I'm going to order from the other link you posted in the London coffee review. It's £95 but from the Uk etc and now the price has gone back up it makes more sense







love to hear a review as I'm not home until the 20th of the month


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coyote said:


> Rupert, whatever you choose as yours grinder just bypass Hario as grinder. Everything else from Hario is really great but as grinder really bad.


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## billt (Jul 10, 2013)

Rupert said:


> Well, that would be interesting if I didn't know which grinder was used until after the tasting. In fact, double blind tests would be very interesting in all aspects of coffee making. I'd like to see some scientific proof of some of the claims of grinder manufacturers.


To be fair, most of the claims seem to be made by coffee enthusiasts, rather than manufacturers. Yes, unbiased testing is desirable. Unfortunately it is exceedingly difficult to do, and few people have the ability, time or inclination to do it. I expect the major commercial operators, like Nestle or Illy, do blind tests but they aren't likely to be about the things coffee forumites obssess about, nor are they likely to release them to the public.



Rupert said:


> In reading through some of this forum I get the distinct sense that there is a lot of fetishism going on. Seriously, some people are spending many hundreds, if not thousands of pounds just to produce a cup of coffee. Now I understand that for some, beautiful design is a factor in choosing a grinder but me, I'm a utilitarian. I don't want to gaze in awe at a Rafino or whatever cool grinder is in vogue and go "Hey! Look at my expensive, stylish machinery", I just want a decent cup of coffee.
> 
> I'm not interested in 200 grind presets, variable grind speeds, timers, built-in scales, Borosilicate glass catchers or even UV protected bean containers - just a straightforward, reasonably priced device for the simple job of grinding coffee beans.


Not only is there a lot of fetishism, but there's a lot of fashion as well. The EK43 has become fashionable in the last few years and is associated with an awful lot of fetishism, but I expect it'll go out of fashion in a year or two. (Of course, statements like that won't go down well in an enthusiasts forum so expect some negative responses!)

Yes, the glass bean tubes are a really good joke.

FWIW, I've just ordered a £750 grinder after 10 years of using a £90 ex-cafe, beaten up K6, so I'm well on the nutcase end of the spectrum, but I recognise the insanity! Also, I drink espresso to try to get most intense coffee flavour. Espresso undoubtedly needs a good grinder, though it's not necessary to spend several hundred pounds. It's for espresso that all the grinder noise is made. Filter coffee is much less sensitive to grind quality so a much cheaper machine should work well.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ek43 had been around for

A lot of years , and has always been seen as a quality brew grinder - 2013 I think was when perger started using t for espresso . So it's fashionability has lasted a while in that respect .

Taste and coffee are subjective - so one piece of gear is worth the cost to some people not to others ...and that is fine

No piece of gear is a magic bullet to tasty and using good specialty coffee is us first step ....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Plus I'll add since the ek43 bevame fashionable it seems to have driven grinder manufacturers to do some r and d and we are starting to see some advancement in espresso grinders ( admittedly for commercial use ) for the first time in a in a long while .

Peak > clima one > mazzer cold > Titus> zr > eg1 .At some point some of this will filter down ( excuse my pun ) to the home user . Perhaps the new Baratza design will give retention free affordable grid bing .

Raffino is a step in they direction where potentially a simple and cost effective solution to better brewed coffee might appear . Would this have come as quick Without the focus on particle size that perger and the ek43 threw a fashionable light on ? Probably but perhaps not as quick

I'll also add I get knock out brewed coffee from my knock grinder too


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am not sure about the fashion side of things, manufacturers at making improvements to grinder technology, the interest in coffee grows and grows, this growth promotes technological advancement. Some grinders do much better jobs than others, buy what you can afford and want. It is interesting that we have new members that are pushing the boundaries again. I expect you may learn from experience ir you could listen to the collective experience on here, your choice.


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## knightrider (Jan 22, 2016)

I hope I am not stealing a thread but would anyone have an opinion on this please?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chef-Mate-Stainless-Adjustable-AeroPress-Compatible/dp/B01B4VED92/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8.

I'm looking for something that will do a Turkish grind for my Rancilio but I don't want to spend as much for a grinder as I did for the coffee machine. The blurb on this says it does but would be interested to hear of any real world experience.

Our usage is really only making three or four cups of espresso each morning.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

knightrider said:


> I hope I am not stealing a thread but would anyone have an opinion on this please?
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Chef-Mate-Stainless-Adjustable-AeroPress-Compatible/dp/B01B4VED92/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8.
> 
> ...


Why would you want Turkish grind for a Racilio? The advert says Turkish for French Press and Mocka pot.. Don't think I'd fancy that..


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bad grinder = bad coffee ... £15 on a grinder isn't going to help you make espresso of a tasty nature . Re think your budget ... Perhaps a decent hand Grindr ( knock ) will do espresso properly . I sincerely doubt this will, a grinder going " fine " doesn't meant it's suitable for espresso....

Porlexes get used for espresso but they aren't very consistent or adjustable and People get tired and give up or move on from them pretty quick .

Grinder is as if not more important than your machine and the quality of coffee you use


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> £15 on a grinder isn't going to help you make espresso of a tasty nature .


Yes but I rarely drink espresso. I prefer a longer cup


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

MWJB said:


> ...etc.


I like your website Mark, very interesting.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Rupert said:


> Well, that would be interesting if I didn't know which grinder was used until after the tasting. In fact, double blind tests would be very interesting in all aspects of coffee making. I'd like to see some scientific proof of some of the claims of grinder manufacturers.
> 
> In reading through some of this forum I get the distinct sense that there is a lot of fetishism going on. Seriously, some people are spending many hundreds, if not thousands of pounds just to produce a cup of coffee. Now I understand that for some, beautiful design is a factor in choosing a grinder but me, I'm a utilitarian. I don't want to gaze in awe at a Rafino or whatever cool grinder is in vogue and go "Hey! Look at my expensive, stylish machinery", I just want a decent cup of coffee.
> 
> I'm not interested in 200 grind presets, variable grind speeds, timers, built-in scales, Borosilicate glass catchers or even UV protected bean containers - just a straightforward, reasonably priced device for the simple job of grinding coffee beans.


I think those running the "Titan grinder project" over on home barista were performing blind taste tests on the multiple grinders they tested. Parallels could generally be drawn between burr size and quality in the cup if I remember correctly, but there were a few exceptions. For scientific results you're talking about particle analysis and TDS/Yield calculations which have also been performed using a number of grinders with different burr shapes and sizes. Of course, scientific tests will not address taste but correlations have been made with various extraction yields. Grinding coffee beans is simple. Grinding them to a consistent size is not, or at least it requires a great deal of precision. A consistent grind size is necessary for a good extraction whatever method you use.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Rupert said:


> You know, the more I think about it, it seems that one can spend an awful lot of cash just to perform the seemingly simple task of grinding a bean.


It might seem simple but it's an incredibly important part of the process.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rupert said:


> Yes but I rarely drink espresso. I prefer a longer cup


Comment was directed towards @knightrider


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@Rupert grinding coffee isn't like grinding pepper


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You can make a cracking brewed set up ( knock - fp - scales ) for £120 ish that would last you a lifetime and with a little skill and reading make seriously tasty brewed coffee .

That grinder would suffice for espresso too if someone wanted to move on at some point


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## Rupert (Mar 31, 2016)

I can't justify or afford anything more than a Rhinowares hand grinder so I just ordered one.

Thanks for your advice.


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