# Unable to lock in pf on Brewtus IV...HELP!



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Yesterday, removed the stock gasket plus shower screen on my Expobar Leva DB, gave the inside of the group head a thorough deep clean. Fitted a new cafelat long life silicone gasket plus an IMS 200im competition shower screen (integrated version).

Went to lock in my portafilter this morning prior to switching the machine on to warm up but the pf would barely turn! 

Had a look up into the group head plus had a feel with my fingers and it appeared that one part of the gasket was not properly or fully seated in the cavity. Tried as I did using a spoon to push that part in so that it was flush with the surface, it just would not budge!

So I removed it. Had a check and it's 8mm just like the stock one. Both have it stamped on the gaskets themselves.

Tried fitting the stock gasket with the IMS shower screen. Still won't sit flush so that I can lock my pf in.

Also tried stock gasket and shower screen which clearly fitted prior to yesterday but nope they won't fit either.

Last thing I tried before walking away was new gasket plus IMS screen. Using around 100lbs of pressure and causing the Brewtus to move, I can just about lock the pf in at 6 o'clock position but my God it feels like I'm about to snap the wooden handle off! 

My brand new naked pf with triple basket (VST 20g) won't fit either.

What have I done to my machine?!

Here's a photo which looks like everything's as it should be.










I did not unscrew or move Abram's distribution plate (think that's what it's known as?) where the water passes through. There's nothing else on the inside of the group head, where the shower screen attached to that can be moved so I'm totally perplexed as to what ha happened?!

Any help or suggestions welcome.

Thanks.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

When you fitted the stock gasket back on did it seat in properly?

I have always had to lock the PF in really hard after replacing a group gasket, they are tough, and an absolute bugger to remove (I almost always destroy them in the process).

Did you allow the machine to heat up? The thermal expansion may help.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I tried locking pf in first whilst the machine was cold then after it had fully warmed up, no real difference.

Stock gasket felt like it was fully seated today but again I was unable to turn the pf easily unless using real brute force.

It was never like this before, it always locked in nice and snug with the handle at 6 o'clock.

It almost a feels like the outer rim where the two lugs on the pf holder fit in before you twist, have some how become shallower. Obviously that can't have happened but that's what it feels like when trying to lock the pf in and it not wanting to budge easily. You can hear the top of the basket rim rubbing really tightly.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

I know this does not help you, but I did exactly the same upgrade to my Brewtus tonight with no issues at all.

I really can not think what your problem can be, sorry


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@Yes Row

Did you fit the same cafelat long life silicone gasket (8mm)?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Highly recommend the clear (so no chemical dyes) silicone gaskets as sold by @steve_bkk on this forum.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/member.php?13843-steve_bkk


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> @Yes Row
> 
> Did you fit the same cafelat long life silicone gasket (8mm)?


I used a red one I got from Bella Barista, I believe it was 8 mm as my stock one used to lock the PF in at about 7 clock This on is bang 6 O clock .


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Although my gasket came from foundrycoffeeroasters it's the same one as you have from BB.

The fact that the stock gasket which I've been using since I've had the machine, previously fitted fine prior to removal yesterday, but now won't allow my pf to lock in easily seems to indicate something has changed inside the outer rim of the group head where the two pf lugs rotate within. Don't know if that's even possible but that's what it seems like.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I've got a silicone gasket in mine with an IMS, no issues. Did you lube the gasket before putting it in (not that not doing so would cause your problem, but it makes getting it out easier)


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Lube as in something like Molykote? Didn't know or think about doing that. Either way don't have any so will need to source some.

Was hoping to get this sorted asap so I could get back to making coffee!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Only plus point was that the water dispersion did look more even than the stock shower screen.






And slowed down...


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Not sure this would make the difference but have you put the gasket in the right way up?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

BTW it does'nt need to go to 6 o'clock (unless you've got OCD). This is mine pretty much locked in:

  IMAG2074 by wjheenan, on Flickr


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

The printed cafelat raised writing on the rim of the gasket is facing downwards towards the drip tray. Is that the correct way round.

From memory the stock gasket with Expobar 8 writing on the rim, faces the same way (downwards). I did notice that one has a slight indent in the centre of the rim which touches the inside roof of the group head whereas the cafelat ones does not have this indent/groove.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Currently in order to turn mine, it requires so much force that if I'm not holding onto the Brewtus, the whole machine slides to the right. It's no lightweight as we all know so something's not right here.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Just to double check something...

If you're holding the gasket the correct side up, the shower screen drops in from the top and the very top of the rim of shower screen which is wider than the inner hole of gasket prevents it from falling through. With screen inside gasket like this, I've tried fitting it into group head.

Correct or am I doing this wrong?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Currently in order to turn mine, it requires so much force that if I'm not holding onto the Brewtus, the whole machine slides to the right. It's no lightweight as we all know so something's not right here.


Turn it how far? Mine barely goes past the angle in the picture, regardless of force used


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

The writing should be facing upwards


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

If I line the two pf lugs into the corresponding recesses of the group head, turning more than a cm or two and it's really really tight/stiff.

Prior to dismantling/cleaning yesterday it smoothly glided to a 6 o'clock position each and every time. No brute force required whatsoever.

Here's a photo of the indent I mentioned in the stock Expobar 8mm gasket.










I'm presuming that faces upwards into the group head which means the writing faces downwards towards the drip tray?


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

I dropped the screen into the gasket and the pushed into the group head . Then put PF in to drive it fully home


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I tried that too, trying to rotate the pf hoping it would force the gasket in as far as possible. Sadly didn't prevent it from being such an extremely tight fit. Sounds like metal grinding against metal not a smooth sliding sound.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Turn it how far? Mine barely goes past the angle in the picture, regardless of force used


Mine was like that, but now stops at 6. I did not replace it to rectify this aspect. However when I mentioned this to Marco at BB he advised that an 8 mm would move it to 6 position


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

The cafelat has three tiny grooves (12 o'clock, 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock depending on which position you're holding it) in the inner rim. What are they meant for? Aid removal or something?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

My guess is an 8.5mm gasket might be the reason for your pf stopping at 7 o'clock?

In fact that was my first thought this morning as to why my pf didn't want to rotate, thought I may have got the wrong size. But both of my cafelat gaskets say 8 on them.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Did you check the chamfer on the gasket is upwards to fit the curve on the screen?&+

L.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

You might just have solved the riddle! The cafelat writing probably needs to face upwards not downwards? Tried so many variations earlier whilst stumped with this problem, thought I had tried both ways round but could be wrong?

Will try turning it around and see if it solves the problem.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> If I line the two pf lugs into the corresponding recesses of the group head, turning more than a cm or two and it's really really tight/stiff.
> 
> Prior to dismantling/cleaning yesterday it smoothly glided to a 6 o'clock position each and every time. No brute force required whatsoever.
> 
> ...


That groove is caused by the rim of your PF over time.

One side of the new gasket is flat. The other side has a slight bevel on the inside of the ring. The bevel is where the lip of the basket sits ie bevel up, flat side down.

I'm with other guys that with a new gasket my Brewtus locks at about seven on the clock dial. Especially so with one of my naked PFs that has thicker lugs than the stock Brewtus PF.

If it stays in place under pressure, you're styling.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks for all of the replies.

What is a suitable lube to use when re-fitting a gasket?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Vaseline.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

funinacup said:


> Vaseline.


Not a great idea if your using a traditional rubber seal. Vaseline attacks rubber. Molykote 111 would work for rubber or silicon but you shouldn't need anything really.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Makes it much easier to remove for your regular clean


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

The gasket on mine has a rounded edge and a square edge. The rounded edge goes into the machine, square edge pointing to the drip tray, a smear of vaseline on the inside edge (shower screen side) helps to remove it for the cleaning routine.

Ian


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Silicon for lubricant. Petrolatum and rubber don't play well. I didn't have a problem with a standard 8mm rubber gasket from BB and IMS screen (though I had to cut into the oringinal gasket and yank it out with a pick). Maybe you've got the wrong size branded onto the gasket, have you measured it with callipers?


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Just a question, when You putt an new gasket in, You take the basket out of the PF before You try to fit the PF for the first time, thats the wright way to fitt the gasket and secure them.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@3aan

I tried that a number of times, trying to rotate the portafilter minus the basket into the group head as the height is obviously reduced. However each time I snapped the basket back into the pf then tried again, that's where my above problems in having great difficulty to rotate the pf anti-clockwise, began.

Seems I need to source some Molykote 111 pronto...


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Just a bitt of spit wil do the trick as wel, its a bit old fashion, do it as nobody looks. ?

The beveled edge on the inside gasket have to up towards the group.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

How important is the expiry date on Molykote 111? Looking on eBay often listings don't mention one so I've contacted the sellers in question, sometimes they reply..."oh, didn't realise it until now but the expiry date has already passed" or no replies at all then listing ends. Currently there's one that expires 2016, another 2018 and the highest price tube 2019.

Is it worth spending around 20% more for a slightly longer expiry date considering a 100ml tube is classed as a lifetime supply for the average user?


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Molykote is an silicone grease, that will last almost forever, you could buy a 10 or 20 gram in the most D.I.Y. Stores for a few euro, sorry pounds?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Rob1 said:


> Maybe you've got the wrong size branded onto the gasket, have you measured it with callipers?


This possibility did cross my mind whilst fighting with it using a spoon trying to force the last bit of the gasket into the group head recess. Don't have callipers unfortunately as have never had a need for them before.

Any suggestions for an affordable set that will do the job please? They probably will end up in a drawer rarely or never used again other that possibly to measure the base of a tamper to .01mm!


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

The smaller tubes have a better Tip (smaller) so You could better apply the stuf.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Iff You goth your calliper, You will use it more often, do buy an good one or none.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Just to recap...

Molykote 111 will be fine on a stock gasket (made of rubber)? But either Molykote 111 (silicone based?) or Vaseline (petroleum based?) are suitable for use with a silicone gasket such as the cafelat one I have?


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Trey it the way I mentioned or take a little bit of liquid diswasher (hand) fairy-liquid ??

I'm Dutch . . .


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Update.

Problem now resolved. 

As pointed out by Yes Row, El carajillo, Obnic and Eyedee, the gasket needs to be inserted the correct way round (chamfered/rounded side pointing upwards into the group head).

So much for these cafelat silicone gaskets being classed as long life...I totally destroyed one in 1-2 days! 





































The last photo shows the new chamfer that I gave it from forcing my portafilter to turn when it didn't want to budge!

Popped the old stock gasket back in but with the IMS screen whilst I source some Molykote 111 silicone lubricant then I'll pop my spare new cafelat silicone gasket in.

Whilst it's much, much quicker to remove the gasket using a sharp hook tool (takes less than 10 seconds) it's damaged/destroyed my new silicone gasket after I removed it only 3 or 4 times.

Did try a spoon plus a flat blade screwdriver previously and it was a real ordeal to finally get the stock gasket and screen out hence why I purchased a set of hook tools specifically for this job.

Hopefully once the next gasket has been lubricated prior to being inserted plus the machine is warmed up, future removals will be easier and quicker.

Thanks for all of the replies. Hopefully I'll manage to get some sleep tonight unlike last night!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If it's lubed you can pop it out with a spoon no problem.

That poor gasket...


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I was quite pleased with the purchase of this set of hook tools (£1.49 direct from Amazon)










This is the culprit that destroyed one of my brand new silicone gaskets!










How much lube to use? A good smothering of the chamfered edge which fits into the recess plus the inner circumference which is in contact with the shower screen or a very very small amount?


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

DoubleShot said:



> How much lube to use? A good smothering of the chamfered edge which fits into the recess plus the inner circumference which is in contact with the shower screen or a very very small amount?


Just a tiny bit, its only to make the damnd thing going smooth, You dont have to buttered it.

Nice work! ???


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@3aan said:


> Nice work!


of what...destroying a new gasket, lol?


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## Brewer in training (Feb 7, 2015)

Thanks very much for taking one for the team!

Now we all know......

You're a good man!!!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Was more of a n00b moment than anything else! 

Previous time I removed the stock shower screen and gasket for cleaning, I paid more attention to which way round it came out and had no issues putting it back in.

Will know for next time...


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

@DoubleShot I've got mine installed with the printed side facing up into the group. I can just about get the portafilter locked in to the 7 o clock position and its really tight. Could you lock the portafilter to 6 o clock right away or did it take a few weeks?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

With the rounded edge of the pf gasket facing up towards the group head (flat side facing down towards drip tray), mine locked to a 6 o' clock position straight away.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> @DoubleShot I've got mine installed with the printed side facing up into the group. I can just about get the portafilter locked in to the 7 o clock position and its really tight. Could you lock the portafilter to 6 o clock right away or did it take a few weeks?


Is this the red one 8mm or the blue 8.5mm one?

Was the PF locking at 6 o'clock before hand with the standard gasket?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

You'll need an 8mm gasket (red if its a long life silicone one made by cafelat).


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Yeah, it's the 8mm one from cafelat. Pf was locking in to 6 with the old stock gasket but when it was new it didn't.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

That's weird @Rob1. I am sure you potentially have done this, but try the following:

- Remove filter screen. Like previously said, they come out together (if you keep it clean). Use a tea spoon on the groove of the filter screen;

- Wash the gasket with water - and the filter screen - making sure they don't have any stuff attached to them. You might as well take the opportunity and clean around the group head;

- Dry them up. Place the gasket around the filter screen, making sure that any writings face upwards. The flat surface should meet the portafilter / filter basket. I found that, if the gasket is upside down, the PF will not lock at 6 o'clock.

- With your hands and fingers, place them into the group head. Use your fingers to fit the gasket into place, as much as you can. To set it properly, take the filter basket out of the portafilter, and gently lock the portafilter into the group head, going to 6 o'clock.

- Now, do the same as above, but with the basket in place.

Hope that helps. If it still locks at 7 o'clock, I have no idea. I have also replaced mine with a Cafelat one, and had no issues (although on a different machine, but that should not be an issue I don't think).


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Gasket is the right way around. It was a really pain to get in though, with one side popping out when the other went in, despite lubrication. I'll give it a few days and pull the screen out again, if nothing else I'll get to see how much crap has accumulated in that time.


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

What portafilter are you using my stock double spout locks to 6 but the naked will only go round to 7 could maybe be that


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Both with VST baskets. Naked is a really tight fit and the stock is a little better but still not six.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

So I popped the screen out and gave it and the group a quick wipe, relubed and put it back in. Same result. What I've noticed is the gasket doesn't seem to fit into the group. I've applied pressure and worked it in using the portafilter with and without a basket and I've used a small tool used for shaping plasticine to push it in and there's always one side that seems to pop out a bit. I get the gasket almost flush with the metal with the exception of one third of it which sticks out and simply won't go in without pushing another part of the gasket out.

I'll try when the machine has cooled down to work from two points on the gasket at the same time instead of one. Failing that I'll either try without lubricant or try with the spare.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

It does sound as if the seal is not going in square to the brew head.You have obviously mounted the seal with its inner chamfer mated with the slight flare on the shower screen.

When you next remove it try this --Lightly lube the inner edge of the seal as well as the outer edge. Fit the seal to the screen,place a basket in the PF and lube the top edge of the basket. Place the screen on / in the PF and press it SQUARELY into the brew head, when it is squarely seated then rotate the PF to press the seal and screen in fully.

If this does not work you will need to check the dimensions of the seal and look for any lumps or damage.


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

This does seem to be a problem with certain portafilters as I said my standard will go to six but the naked is nowhere near. Was wondering if anyone supplied a thinner gasket maybe a 7.5?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The resurrection said:


> This does seem to be a problem with certain portafilters as I said my standard will go to six but the naked is nowhere near. Was wondering if anyone supplied a thinner gasket maybe a 7.5?


When there is a difference in fit with different PF;s it is usually because there is a difference in the thickness, angle or length of the lugs on the PF's.


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

Yeah I understand why it is happening but without filing down the chrome on the portafilter the only other option would be to reduce the gasket thickness. However the portafilters all do work fine it just from an ocd point of view its troublesome


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

My standard portafilter, also won't go to 6 o'clock, the naked filter is even worse, more like 8!

At a quick glance I have a black seal, I'm wondering if it's upside down... how do you get the shower screen off these machines?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

wilse said:


> My standard portafilter, also won't go to 6 o'clock, the naked filter is even worse, more like 8!
> 
> At a quick glance I have a black seal, I'm wondering if it's upside down... how do you get the shower screen off these machines?


Hi, use a tea spoon on the groove of the shower screen to yank it out.

I usually wrap a bit of cloth around it, just in case it slips and I end up damage something. But that is just me being clumsy.

The shower screen and the gasket should come out together.

When you put it back, make sure that any writings / grooves in the gasket are facing upwards - the portafilter basket should touch the flat part of the gasket.

You should do this periodically and make sure the gasket and shower screen, as well as the group are always clean and fee of any gunk. The more you leave without cleaning, the more difficult it will be be get out next time. Also, your coffee will taste much nicer. Coffee oils / fines tend to accumulate at the back of the shower screen, so keep that clean. See the related article by DavicUK in the stickies section of this forum.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

wilse said:


> My standard portafilter, also won't go to 6 o'clock, the naked filter is even worse, more like 8!
> 
> At a quick glance I have a black seal, I'm wondering if it's upside down... how do you get the shower screen off these machines?


With the E 61 head the usual way is to use the handles of large spoons as tyre levers. Insert the handle ends up against the seal while pressing in firmly, using the edge of the brew head as a fulcrum lift the spoons to pull the screen and seal down. Depending on how long the seal has been in this may take several attempts.

If this does not work careful use of a reasonably large flat bladed screw diver can be tried taking care not to damage chrome work (piece of card to lever against).

If the seal is hard or cracked (flex it to see)replace and lightly lubricate new seal. Remove screen and seal more frequently in future .


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