# Thoughts on choice (AKA beginner help)



## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

I was given a Nespresso machine a few years ago and it did what it said on the tin, but I wasn't upset when it went bang a couple of weeks back and I happily binned it.

Wanting to enter the world of proper espresso I naively replaced it with a Delonghi bean to cup machine, which didn't really deliver. This in hindsight is hardly suprising. Fortunately it developed a fault and it was returned. What it was useful for was to help me figure out what I wanted, which was a more hands on, learning new skills, kind of approach.

Starting from scratch and doing what I should have done before, I've spent the last few days reading this and that, and trying to narrow my choices. My original budget was about 350quid which I've realised is on the low side but I don't want to get too out of hand, which I imagine is pretty easy to do.

I now appreciate the need for focusing on the grinder first and my early thoughts of a 80/20 split in favour of the espresso machine have been forgotten and had almost decided on a Gaggia Classic with a Rancilio Rocky. Since then I've read good reviews of the Iberital MC2 which is less than half the cost of the Rocky.

My budget is now looking to be around the £500 area for the grinder & machine and now wonder if I'd be better off with a MC2/Rancilio Silvia set up over the Rocky/Classic. Any thoughts? Bear in mind that size is an issue so a relatively compact set up is what I am after.

My needs are mainly espresso or americano, latte's are a very rare need so a superb steamer isn't my main focus.

I realise this isn't a particularly original question but it does let me say hi and thank people who have replied to other threads that have got me this position.

Also, tampers? Is there more to them than purely aesthetics, apart from being the correct size?

Steve


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

I can provide a little help:

The silvia has the edge on the classic in my opinion. The steam wand is more professional and doesn't have a dodgey steam aid on it. From what I've seen, it's powerful to, almost to a commercial level machine. Where as you said your main concerns aren't steaming, it's a handy thing to have when you do want it. (













)

Tampers is down to choice (the silvia use a 58mm). There are two standard types, flat and convex. Most people go for a flat it's all down to users preference. They normally have a wooden or steel handle. Again, it's your choice as to which one (wood is normally a couple quid cheaper)

Btw, welcome!


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

I think your split is very much the wrong way round







80/20 grinder: machine.

Get yourself a mazzer on ebay and never look back. You may not see this in time, but at least it gives you an idea:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mazzer-Luigi-Super-Jolly-Coffee-Grinder-/300434832529?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item45f34fbc91

The rocky is a superior grinder to the iberital, better build quality, better grind quality, but nothing like as good as a mazzer similar. They will make the rocky look like a plastic toy. Especially considering you're focused on espresso/americano, taste in the cup is key. IMHO neither the rocky/mc2 will deliver with a silvia. However, a mazzer mini/super jolly with a gaggia classic would be nigh on unbeatable for the price if you got it off ebay (mazzers are built like tanks so totally not an issue buying second hand). Maybe £200ish for a jolly on the bay, £150 for a gaggia classic on ebay? Original budget imo would be fine.

Tampers, before I had my reg barber, I had happy donkeys 57mm tamper which didn't quite fit the basket. I think it does make a difference, certainly makes it a lot quicker to tamp and level and I'd say improves the shot (you can see the difference in the extracted pucks which now come out pretty much perfect every time). But the plastic tampers are entirely fit for the bin.

Must say I'm surprised davids thinks the silvia is powerful almost to a commercial machine, considering I'm not sure even the izzo alex is.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Welcome Steve

The MC2/Silvia combo is a solid combination and will deliver a far superior coffee than your previous machines would allow.

Re: Tampers

Spend a little money here (between £30 and £60) and get a tamper with a metal base, that fits the portafilter basket. 58mm is the size required for the Silvia.

Don't be tempted by the cheaper £15 tampers or fully metal cast tampers with slightly rounded edges, as these are in my opinion not always fit for purpose.


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> Must say I'm surprised davids thinks the silvia is powerful almost to a commercial machine, considering I'm not sure even the izzo alex is.


Maybe just the vid I've seen, and the machine I work on. But it looks more than capable of steaming to a high quality without to much effort.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

DavidS said:


> Maybe just the vid I've seen, and the machine I work on. But it looks more than capable of steaming to a high quality without to much effort.


I knew you had krups machines at boston









I'm sorry but i'm not entirely convinced


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

This gives you the idea of the mazzer super jolly:


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## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

Thanks for the replies and welcome.

I had looked at Mazzers but had to move on due to the actual size of them. Counter space is at a premium and I certainly don't want to have to get equipment out of cupboards every time.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

If it's height that's the issue, it isn't (you see that hopper which makes up a large amount of the height? Don't need it). If it's width and depth I don't honestly think there's much between a mazzer mini and a rocky?


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/mazzer-super-jolly-home-depot-hopper-t499.html

Check that out if height is your concern.


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## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> If it's height that's the issue, it isn't. If it's width and depth I don't honestly think there's much between a mazzer mini and a rocky?


Interested to know why. The shortest mazzer I've seen is 46cm high. The only places it could live only have 40cm clearance which is why I was concentrating on smaller grinders, or am I missing something?


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

The absolutely pointless hopper which would foul all beans within a day of them being in there







:

http://www.home-barista.com/advice/why-used-super-jolly-grinder-should-be-on-your-wish-list-t12282.html


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## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm all for adapting but to be honest I'd rather not spend that kind of money to then have to faff about with fitting drainpipes to it


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> I knew you had krups machines at boston
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We use Faema E98s mainly.... :S

Maybe not really powerful, but better than the rest at that price


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

DavidS said:


> We use Faema E98s mainly.... :S
> 
> Maybe not really powerful, but better than the rest at that price


Mmhmm







You won't mind me switching yer faema for a silvia then?


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

If you would prefer brand new, then I think either combination you suggested would be great. I think the Rocky is a better build than the MC2, but less adjustable. If you also grind for french press or anything else, then go for the Rocky.

If you want to get the most bang for the buck, then RisingPower has pointed out some good buys and recommendations.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

weirdfish said:


> I'm all for adapting but to be honest I'd rather not spend that kind of money to then have to faff about with fitting drainpipes to it


Well, if you don't want to dose for a double and just put a 58mm tamper in the throat, it's a helluva lot taste you'll be losing. (You don't need anything but a tamper to put in the throat)

(It's how I used my mazzer mini and how I use my conical k10 which is far better than the plastic toys imo). In fact, maybe I'll add a vid (i'm gonna do some decaf). Well, I dose at least in the compak, can't fit the tamper in the throat since it's not like the mazzer


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## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

I appreciate all the views. This is turning out to be a far more involved decision than I ever imagined. In a good way


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## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

RisingPower said:


> Well, if you don't want to dose for a double and just put a 58mm tamper in the throat, it's a helluva lot taste you'll be losing. (You don't need anything but a tamper to put in the throat)
> 
> (It's how I used my mazzer mini and how I use my conical k10 which is far better than the plastic toys imo). In fact, maybe I'll add a vid (i'm gonna do some decaf)


I have to be honest and say that has gone over my head a little







. It looked to me like the hopper had been replaced with something lower, which is what i was commenting on.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

weirdfish said:


> I have to be honest and say that has gone over my head a little
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, but you don't need it if you're only dosing for a double, basically, dose for a double, then drop the tamper in on top of the beans. Of course it's better to use a cheap crappy plastic tamper so if for some bizarre reason it managed to force its way down it wouldn't do any harm to the burrs. (Incidentally pushing down using a tamper is the easiest way to compress the burrs together when reassembling the upper/lower burrset)

I'll make a vid of just the double dose followed by dropping a single basket on top of the throat of my k10 in around 20 mins when the izzo alex is warmed up.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Dosing with a single basket on my k10:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v236/RisingPower85/?action=view&current=IMG_0225.mp4


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## weirdfish (Jun 12, 2010)

cheers for that, I see what you mean.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

weirdfish said:


> cheers for that, I see what you mean.


Works better of course with a tamper in the mazzers (a 58mm tamper fits snugly), but they're imo better designed than the compak. The throats also stick up, so you'd be less likely to spill any beans.


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## mimiboo (May 21, 2010)

RisingPower said:



> Dosing with a single basket on my k10:
> 
> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v236/RisingPower85/?action=view&current=IMG_0225.mp4


Great video, thanks!

I'm impressed with the Mazzers. Is a Luigi the same as a k10? sorry to sound stupid, but I've just discovered these on this thread!

thanks!

MB


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