# JAMES HOFFMAN



## Gilly (Jul 29, 2019)

James Hoffman; the David Attenborough of Coffee.

Discuss.?


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## hysaf (Oct 17, 2020)

It's just one man's opinion, streamed on YouTube, fluently.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

He knowledgable and has access to a wide range of coffee equipment that most people can only dream of. I like him in general. Makes a nice video.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I like his manner and enjoy the videos about the wider subject of coffee, not keen on the gear reviews & perpetuating of minority, unsubstantiated theories & mythology like "unimodal espresso" grind from typical burr grinders.


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## mystik (Jan 30, 2021)

His video of the Europiccola was my first proper "intro" to the lever machines, and there were so many coffee terms I had never heard about  He seems knowledge and provides a balanced critique, but as hysaf has said, in the end it's one person's opinion.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

My opinion, as a person who basically started this rabbit hole a few weeks ago and was instantly drawn to his video, is that he definitely makes high quality content (well shot, well narrated). At times it can be a bit painful, as he seems to go round in circles without taking a position. Which in a sense it's good, since he looks at things from many angles, but it also means that he rarely gives strong opinions.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

He has a very unique and distinctive style....very non-committal....i love him...i hate him....i can't get enough of him 🙌


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## sjm85 (Sep 9, 2016)

I'm neutral on this subject, but recognise he is the coffee equivalent of an 'influencer'.

I don't believe it is fair to be negative about other influencers, in say beauty or fashion, but consume his content thinking it is somehow different.


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> He has a very unique and distinctive style....very non-committal....i love him...i hate him....i can't get enough of him 🙌


 Ditto. I'd say he's more of a MKBHD of coffee (albeit with a bit more industry knowledge/experience) rather than David Attenborough. I religiously watch all of his stuff anyway.


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## Rapid (Jun 12, 2020)

Hoffman was a big influence on getting me into coffee. He's not just 'another man'. The guy has been world barista champion as well as setting up SM so he has a lot of knowledge and experience of not just coffee but the entire industry.

Moreover, I find his videos entertaining. This is a new age of social media, vlogging, youtubing etc. Coffee isn't a 50+ game anymore, there's a completely new audience. I didn't even know there was anything other than nescafe's instant shite until my late 20's. Had Youtube been trending 10 years earlier, I have no doubt I'd have got into in my late teens/early 20's. Personally I feel he's played a big role getting a new audience into coffee.


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## bluesith (Dec 20, 2020)

I think he is fantastic. Very informative and entertaining


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

I like his science of coffee ones, the others are all a bit meh. Especially the reviews.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

He's very articulate, relaxed in front of the camera, extremely knowledgeable & passionate about his subject and I imagine he has worked incredibly hard and taken a lot of risks to get where he is. Added to this he has a very influential voice in the coffee industry & he doesn't an ego. I really like him.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

He is an influencer who looks to raise his social media profile in any way that he can......he is an ex world barista champion.......if people enjoy his stuff that is fine but for me, whilst a lot of stuff he says is correct and entertaining, a lot is gar*bage of the highest order*


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Typing correction : " he doesn't have" an ego! & he is also available to follow on instagram


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

im terms of squaremile, i had redbrick and couldn't get anything out of it


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Cuprajake said:


> im terms of squaremile, i had redbrick and couldn't get anything out of it


 Likewise. I believe a brand/blend created with the intention of being 'consistent' through the various crops that arrive in the year. Such a strong branding that I have heard coffee shop owners repeating it verbally when asked if they ever served anything else. I wondered if the loyalty was more down to them having to serve it as part of their set-up/leasing arrangements...much like tied houses in the licensed trade.

I could never find anything special in it either, certainly at the price point it is easily bettered by 'less consistent' blends. IMO of course.


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## sjm85 (Sep 9, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> He is an influencer who looks to raise his social media profile in any way that he can......he is an ex world barista champion.......if people enjoy his stuff that is fine but for me, whilst a lot of stuff he says is correct and entertaining, a lot is gar*bage of the highest order*


 Exactly, I meant to say for me, he goes into the bucket along with "Kardashians/Footballer WAGs/Love Island contestants/etc." or any other social media influencer. Definitely not with Sir Attenborough.

I think the critical thing I wanted to get across is to be aware that *you are not paying for his content *(unlike, say using Which? magazine, or <insert cycling magazine>, or getting advice and buying a coffee machine from reputable coffee equipment company, etc.) to gain expertise on a subject. He is using social media to "nudge" you, most likely paid for by advertisers or other brands, to get more into coffee, as exemplified in the comments above.

I thoroughly recommend everyone to watch this documentary if you haven't already: https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81254224

Or even just this:


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Don't get me started on Which?...


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

dfk41 said:


> He is an influencer who looks to raise his social media profile in any way that he can......he is an ex world barista champion.......if people enjoy his stuff that is fine but for me, whilst a lot of stuff he says is correct and entertaining, a lot is gar*bage of the highest order*


 Not disputing this, just asking - is there another "YouTuber" that created/creates as much content (he uploads frequently) about as many topics (he covers a wide variety of them..) as he does, and with at least passable montage / video quality?

I would totally enjoy having another take, but the most I've seen is:

- channels just pushing sponsored videos where they just regurgitate product sheets and/or marketing briefs from manufacturers (hardly better than an "Influencer" who at least is going deeper into the subject)

- amateurs who shoot videos with their phones with little video quality and poor to no montage, which makes for painful watching

- channels that have a handful of interesting videos (perhaps ChrisBaca comes to mind) yet a very narrow focus and/or very few regular updates

I'm genuinely wanting to know whether I'm missing some interesting channels.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Not really, Youtube is a bit of a desert when it comes to quality content.


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## InfamousTuba (Feb 5, 2020)

sjm85 said:


> I think the critical thing I wanted to get across is to be aware that *you are not paying for his content *(unlike, say using Which? magazine, or <insert cycling magazine>, or getting advice and buying a coffee machine from reputable coffee equipment company, etc.) to gain expertise on a subject. He is using social media to "nudge" you, most likely paid for by advertisers or other brands, to get more into coffee, as exemplified in the comments above.


 People do pay for his content through patreon and from the number of people that support him he gets a large sum of money (15k+ a month) to buy equipment to test and review. He does use the platform to push some of his own projects but it would be hard not to, but he always states his biases and affiliations at the start.

Companies buy advertisements in magazines and websites while also sending them equipment to review and companies have been known to stop sending review copies of equipment to reviewers that publish negative reviews of their products, look at sites like massdrop or video game reviews for the big studio releases.

Review websites and magazines have a lot more to lose from companies than someone who buys goods as a consumer with money from something like patreon, so how can we prove the impartiality of magazines or reviewers who rely on advertisers to pay for space but also send them products to review? I'm not saying that all magazines and websites can't be impartial but there must be some bias and it is an interesting topic that makes reviews in a digital environment difficult

I don't find all of James' content to be something I enjoy and there are definitely better ways for some content to be done. But he has been a force for change and a boost to get more people interested in the hobby


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Not really, Youtube is a bit of a desert when it comes to quality content.


 Is there any other website or author on another platform then? I don't want to ask for books as that would be rather static, but even a magazine would do (do they even exist anymore).

I know this forum is good, but of course sitting down and doing a bit of more structured reading/watching would have better entertainment value.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Baffo said:


> Is there any other website or author on another platform then? I don't want to ask for books as that would be rather static, but even a magazine would do (do they even exist anymore).
> 
> I know this forum is good, but of course sitting down and doing a bit of more structured reading/watching would have better entertainment value.


 Lots of authors, but usually pushing a very narrow, sometimes strange view.

On the plus side, there's lots of fun stuff to watch, but also a lot of noise/misleading advice.

Really, if you have a specific issue, you're better off asking people here to troubleshoot it.

Is there something specific you are wanting to learn about?

Be aware, despite the frequency & amount of content out there & rapidly rising, innovation in coffee is fairly slow moving.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

I don't agree with the social media=bad angle, he's clearly making videos as a hobby he enjoys, and he very seems to actively avoid conflicts with his business or projects he worked on, or at least is very transparent about it when he makes videos. And he's funded by patreon and his sponsors have little to do with coffee (Squarespace etc).

If someone is telling you something about coffee and don't mention their conflicts, that just means you don't know what their conflicts are. Which? or advice from a company is the very same, have you ever seen Whole Latte Love make a video of a machine they don't stock?

We're all adults I think we can all make fair choices as long as reviewers are transparent and you can't fault him for that.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Lots of authors, but usually pushing a very narrow, sometimes strange view.
> 
> On the plus side, there's lots of fun stuff to watch, but also a lot of noise/misleading advice.
> 
> ...


 Well I'm new so it's not that I have anything specific in mind. And browsing JH's uploads I can easily be like "oh OK, interesting, add to Watch Later", "nah, don't care", "oh cool!", "Nope, boring".

I guess that's going to change once I'm more knowledgeable.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Michael87 said:


> I don't agree with the social media=bad angle, he's clearly making videos as a hobby he enjoys,


 He is making videos to make money and support his online ego.........


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Hoffman is the best there is, 15 years of YouTube and in my opinion nobody has come close to engaging not only experienced coffee makers but amateurs and even their family members. The videos are well made and easy to watch, and often amusing.

Love from james


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## Iamsami (May 15, 2020)

I like his style. He is obviously very knowledgeable and is able to back it up in his well explained videos. He is of course making good money from his online content but who can blame him for that!


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## moppy (Oct 12, 2020)

Making videos with that level of polish requires time, effort and money. Of course he makes money off the channel, I doubt very much that any of us would put in the amount of work required to keep up a channel like that if there was no financial incentive.

All too often people seem to think making (successful) YouTube videos is a lot easier than it actually is.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

In my humble opinion he's a very successful entrepreneur who knows his craft, has the monopoly on the subject and has a captive audience. He hasn't stumbled upon success but worked hard at it I imagine.He's obviously a very shrewd businessman who has engineered his interest into a bit of an empire. Good luck to him I say!


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## Rapid (Jun 12, 2020)

moppy said:


> All too often people seem to think making (successful) YouTube videos is a lot easier than it actually is.


 Right? Anyone would think we're talking about ticktok here!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

moppy said:


> All too often people seem to think making (successful) YouTube videos is a lot easier than it actually is.


 Even making unsuccessful YouTube videos is a lot of work.....


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## IamSLW (Jan 31, 2021)

First post - having watched a lot of varying content on the subject recently I think it's fair to say he/his team generally produces high quality, clear and well-edited media. I think there are likely gripes at every level if you look long enough at the content (for me it was the £500 machine review where the two picks at the end were either >£500 or on the proviso it'd be modded; just wanted an out of the box review). I don't read the comments in his videos but the impression often given in the content is that he engages with the audience and does giveaways which will always help retain and grow a following.

I suppose his background and experience at a professional/commercial level makes him comparable to former champion sport stars becoming pundits who do the same and while he may not please all - any extra content to use when forming a decision from an audience perspective is a good thing.


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## 2cups (May 6, 2019)

I like his stuff, high quality, often entertaining content.

But other YouTube cased coffee videos are available. Pays your money, take your choice...


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Given the majority of the other big coffee youtubers are definitely pushing their store, the fact Hoffman barely ever mentions Square Mile is a big plus.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

allikat said:


> Given the majority of the other big coffee youtubers are definitely pushing their store, the fact Hoffman barely ever mentions Square Mile is a big plus.


 Typical machine review video script:

*blurts out spec sheet. If sponsored, adjectives such as "fantastic", or keywords such as "amazingly consistent shots" will be used*

"I'm going to be using our delicious Honky Ponky beans which are on sale on our website right now, [...] and now I'm going to tamp it with our great-looking wood polished tamper, which by the way is available in our shop at a great price ... "

*show zero details on how to actually use the machine/grinder, just pull a shot of espresso and marvel about the crema*

*insert final remarks on how the machine is great at making coffee for everyone, and if there are any weak points just gloss over*

I could be a video producer..


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

You got a great career ahead of you there @Baffo! Can you buy me a nice grinder when you hit the big time? 😄


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Needs to buy himself one first


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## TimTamps (Jan 16, 2021)

I find JH eminently watchable; content, presentation and style, with a hint of Heston in his scientific bent. Aside from his technical prowess, his greatest skill might be the zen delivery; few influencers could recite the Hackney Yellow Pages and still have an audience. He does seem a little bored or noncommittal when reviewing less than stellar or lower budget kit, however, the exception being his utter destruction of Aldi's espresso machine!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TimTamps said:


> I find JH eminently watchable; content, presentation and style, with a hint of Heston in his scientific bent.


 Watchable for sure, but very little basic measurement, let alone any scientific bent. More received wisdom than anything else.


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## TimTamps (Jan 16, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Watchable for sure, but very little basic measurement, let alone any scientific bent. More received wisdom than anything else.


 was thinking more of his slightly-mad-scientist style; good example is his examination of crema.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What really annoys me, is how people just accept whatever he says. In his recent grinder video shoot off, he introduces a Niche.....why? He says he made shots from all of the grinders.....why cannot we see them? Is taste king? The one shot that he showed being poured, squirrelled around the 15 second mark. I think for clarity, if making a video it ought where possible, be unedited otherwise you end up with a succession of clips all joined together which really does not prove anything.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> What really annoys me, is how people just accept whatever he says. In his recent grinder video shoot off, he introduces a Niche.....why? He says he made shots from all of the grinders.....why cannot we see them? Is taste king? The one shot that he showed being poured, squirrelled around the 15 second mark. I think for clarity, if making a video it ought where possible, be unedited otherwise you end up with a succession of clips all joined together which really does not prove anything.


 In an ideal world we should be able to accept educated opinions. I doubt that there is intention to mislead, more that test formats are not well thought through, or have arbitrary parameters that aren't informative (e.g. 3 grinds isn't really enough to judge dose consistency).

I think that anyone looking for "proof", of all but the most tangible subjects (e.g. do Dutch V60 filters draw down slower than Japanese), is not looking for something realistic.

Even if he only made 3 shots & brews per grinder (when dialled in), this would be an uncomfortably long video, without editing.

I certainly agree in terms of brew guide videos.

If anything irks me, it is that he says he can't keep up with comments, DMs & e-mails. This is entirely understandable & I don't think it reasonable to expect him to. But why then does he ask for questions & feedback at the end of each video?


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

MWJB said:


> But why then does he ask for questions & feedback at the end of each video?


 YT algorithms and all that? It's the same reason why plenty of influencers (both male and female, albeit latter is surely more of a business) just post moderately erotic content and ask "what have you eaten today?" or "suggest me a movie to watch". They don't give a feck but the comments help their ratings.

Only difference being, under some JH's videos some of the comments might spark a discussion among users, even though he doesn't care.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I personally use YouTube for 3 reasons



To entertain myself


Somewhere free to place videos I link to from within a review (to inform, prove or demonstrate)


To place my morning coffee series, where it's purely to detail my musings about things, pretty much as they occur to me when making my morning coffee.


I see the videos of others as entertainment....something for which I usually have to click through adverts, or have a forced watch. Most of the good entertainment channels have good production values and a team that helps makes them as well as a studio, lighting, decent sound whatever and are shot on something better than a smartphone. If people enjoy watching them, great. Would I purchase a product based on them....probably not. Would I base my purchasing decision of those expensive grinders based on his video, no, it might make a *small* part of my purchasing decision (mainly to see the item, possibly see it operating if I'm lucky), but there would be lots of other factors to consider.

I see machines I have reviewed (That I didn't think were any good) pushed quite heavily, often very superficial, and I often think they must be reviewing a completely different machine to the one I tried...but that's the internet for you.


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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

MWJB said:


> ..... But why then does he ask for questions & feedback at the end of each video?


 My bet would be because skimming through comments looking for an interesting point to answer directly is a very different proposition from answering every email or replying to every online comment - especiallywhen a high percentage will be asking questions people ought to be able to ask for themselves, or get from 2 minutes and Google.



dfk41 said:


> What really annoys me, is how people just accept whatever he says. In his recent grinder video shoot off, he introduces a Niche.....why? He says he made shots from all of the grinders.....why cannot we see them? Is taste king? The one shot that he showed being poured, squirrelled around the 15 second mark. I think for clarity, if making a video it ought where possible, be unedited otherwise you end up with a succession of clips all joined together which really does not prove anything.


 Produce a video like that grinder review and you're going to have, among loads of others, a couple of questions to answer. These would be :-

- just how long do I want this to be?

- what's the most valuable things to include in that limited time?

Personally, I know what pulling a shot looks like and I don't want to see him do it for every machine. If he did, you'd either end up with a much longer video, or with a lot less other stuff in it. Or both.

Besides, he made the point that his conclusions on each grinder weren't based just on that final shot, but also on several weeks of using each machine quite a bit. All that roundup can do is try to give a flavour of his overall conclusions, and the gist of the basis for it.

Any real review of a product in any detail cannot conceivably include all the testing done, if the review has been done properly. It is, always was and always will be a synopsis of the findings. Some review formats can give more detail but, never mind internet videos, whatever the format including print and magazines, you only ever get a synopsis. Sure, with print reviews you might get a lot more charts and tables but it's still a synopsis of the reviewer's findings.

Ultimately, any review is going to come down in large part to the opinions of the reviewer(s). Much of the rest of the review tries to outline why they hold that opinion, what factors led to it. But, internet or not, the viewer/reader has to decide whether they trust that the reviewer is, firstly, qualified to form an opinion in the first place, and secondly, has an unseen axe to grind in what they say. JH certainly seems to me to be eminently qualified to hold an opinion, and I would put some weight o it. That is not to say I would subcontract my decision on which of those grinders to buy to him. I would not. But his opinion would go into the mix.

It's also worth remembering that which item, grinder in this case, to buy very much depends on how you intend to use it. JH is pretty clear in outlining, when giving an opinion, what his criteria are.

One of the hardest aspects of doing a review has always been trying to put yourself in the mindset of the people likely to be watching/reading the review, and what they're looking for. You certainly cannot target it at everybody, or the video will last all day. And unlike magazines where you have some idea of who buys it, with the intenet you have no idea. It seemed to me JH made pretty clear what the basis of the review was. It was certainly enough that, if I was in the market for a grinder of that type (which I'm certainly not), he would have narrowed the field for me, probably by at least half.


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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> and I often think they must be reviewing a completely different machine to the one I tried...but that's the internet for you.


 Exactly. I lost count of how many supposed "reviews" said a bit of kit does this, or doesn't do that, and I know it to be rubbish because I have said hardware and they are demonstrably wrong. Quite a few so-called reviews are prettily dressed-up manufacturer's press releases. Some aren't dressed up very much either.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@CoffeePhilE James could have done some linked videos for each grinder with the shot pulling etc (I would have found those interesting)..so it's not in the main video, but you could watch the videos that showed it. It's why I do a number of videos for a review e.g. the internal tour tends to be separate for those who don't want to watch it.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

The problem with coffee equipment lies with the manufacturers and the industry. I can't think of any other high end product that's so difficult/impossible to test and compare before purchasing. If I wanted to buy any of those grinders in JH review I would have to do it blindly based on reviews and very biased owners opinions. Same goes for coffee machines.

When you think about it, it's nuts. I wouldn't buy a new mountain bike, skis, tv........ without trying it first so why do we do it with coffee equipment? The only choice we have is reviews and JH is one of the best ones out there.

I bought my Niche and Osmio purely on @DavecUK reviews but these were hundreds not thousands and I'm very happy with both.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Nopapercup - I think high end AV makes all the coffee equipment retailer shenanigans seem minor in comparison...

I do have to add that James Hoffman has been a pretty big influence in terms of me getting into coffee. Some content is a bit silly but overall I can't think of anyone else who is delivering as much quality content.

Sure the Patreon stuff helps him be a bit independent, but as a business all the advertising and headlines must be of a bigger benefit in terms of his profile. I don't begrudge him benefitting from it, especially as he does do charitable bits as well like the worlds largest coffee tasting donation matching.


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## Soniclife (Mar 6, 2018)

Nopapercup said:


> The problem with coffee equipment lies with the manufacturers and the industry. I can't think of any other high end product that's so difficult/impossible to test and compare before purchasing. If I wanted to buy any of those grinders in JH review I would have to do it blindly based on reviews and very biased owners opinions. Same goes for coffee machines.


 Very true, if I could borrow or buy sale or return an expensive grinder I'd be in the market for one, i have the desire for one, I can afford it, but don't give it much thought as I'm just not motivated to take a punt.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nopapercup said:


> The problem with coffee equipment lies with the manufacturers and the industry. I can't think of any other high end product that's so difficult/impossible to test and compare before purchasing. If I wanted to buy any of those grinders in JH review I would have to do it blindly based on reviews and very biased owners opinions. Same goes for coffee machines.


 It's pretty common in any market where the product is small scale production runs. You usually have to commit, then talk to the manufacturer direct if any issues arise...sometimes you realise you made a mistake, recoup your losses & move on. Other times, manufacturers are very helpful.

Things in this kind of market tend to be expensive, so A/B tests are difficult because you usually need to sell whet you had to get the new thing.

In other markets I have suggested to always "try before you buy", if that's not possible, just buy something you can return. On the other hand, owners of rare machines are often keen to show them off, so it might take a tank or two of petrol & a willing owner, but it can be possible (outside of lockdowns anyway).


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## Tomatin (Jan 9, 2021)

I do like his content and reviews, at times however, I just want him to get to the point.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I found the reviews quite entertaining, the nice thing about his channel is that the subscribers buy the equipment, so no he has not been given them because he is an influencer or self professed professional reviewer, and thus he appears much more impartial as a result. I also like that those who support him get the chance to get one of the reviewed grinders.

He comes across professional and has the pedigree to back up what he is saying, so when he describes the flavours and mouthful, i have no doubt that this is accurate. Sure he did not go down the refracting route, probably as this would take a lot more time and require more data points, but in terms of how those grinders function, what the pros and cons are, what you could expect as an end user I thought it was pretty good.

I also liked that the niche was discussed as so many folk want to compare that with a really expensive grinders and the fact that he put into perspective was great.

The only downside for me was that a few other key grinders were missing from the line up like the ceado hero and the Titus nautilus, both very very good large flat single dose home grinders.


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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @CoffeePhilE James could have done some linked videos for each grinder with the shot pulling etc (I would have found those interesting)..so it's not in the main video, but you could watch the videos that showed it. It's why I do a number of videos for a review e.g. the internal tour tends to be separate for those who don't want to watch it.


 He could have. He sort-of did, though only a few seconds of each, in the individual grinder vid's. But again, the reviews were basedon quite a number of shots over some weeks, so I'm not sure watvhing one specific shot would have told us much. They were, after all (and as you would expect for between $1500 and $3500 each, all very good grinders. I don't remember a single one of them not pulling a good shot and we can't judge taste from video. Only tasting would tell. Yes, he could have sown more but I get why he didn't dwell on that more.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

MWJB said:


> It's pretty common in any market where the product is small scale production runs. You usually have to commit, then talk to the manufacturer direct if any issues arise...sometimes you realise you made a mistake, recoup your losses & move on. Other times, manufacturers are very helpful.
> 
> Things in this kind of market tend to be expensive, so A/B tests are difficult because you usually need to sell whet you had to get the new thing.
> 
> In other markets I have suggested to always "try before you buy", if that's not possible, just buy something you can return. On the other hand, owners of rare machines are often keen to show them off, so it might take a tank or two of petrol & a willing owner, but it can be possible (outside of lockdowns anyway).


 I get it, it's a small market and a lot of equipment is sold direct from the manufacturer. If the market keeps growing, maybe more shops will pop up like Bella Barista but even in London there isn't currently a shop where you can see and test multiple machines.

Part of the reason I like buying second hand. If I don't like it, I probably won't lose much re-selling.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CoffeePhilE said:


> He could have. He sort-of did, though only a few seconds of each, in the individual grinder vid's. But again, the reviews were basedon quite a number of shots over some weeks, so I'm not sure watvhing one specific shot would have told us much. They were, after all (and as you would expect for between $1500 and $3500 each, all very good grinders. I don't remember a single one of them not pulling a good shot and we can't judge taste from video. Only tasting would tell. Yes, he could have sown more but I get why he didn't dwell on that more.


 If he had them for "quite a number of shots over some weeks" why weren't there 10 grinds per grinder for the dose consistency? This stuff takes seconds to do, in comparison.

If they were "all very good grinders", why only 8-8.5/10 scores for the shots? Specialty coffee is the top 20% by definition, shouldn't these grinders do more than just scrape by?

We can't judge taste (changing coffee affects taste more than anything) from a video, but we can be informed on efficiency, repeatability (which I don't expect to be an issue) & relative performance. Even if there wasn't videos for every aspect, a link to some results is possible.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> If they were "all very good grinders", why only 8-8.5/10 scores for the shots? Specialty coffee is the top 20% by definition, shouldn't these grinders do more than just scrape by?


 I wonder if he is just being a little more real in terms of the output, we don't know the coffee, roast level either and if 8 -8.5 is not great then the poor niche only scored 6!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

It's entertaining theatre with a psuedo scientific coating.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> then the poor niche only scored 6!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> I wonder if he is just being a little more real in terms of the output, we don't know the coffee, roast level either and if 8 -8.5 is not great then the poor niche only scored 6!


 I don't know what you mean by "more real"? Why would he use a non-representative coffee, compared to his typical preference.

If that's true regarding the Niche, then it simply doesn't function properly. Which doesn't scan, I'm not saying it sits shoulder to shoulder with the others in the test, just that his scoring seems overly harsh all round.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I wonder if he is just being a little more real in terms of the output, we don't know the coffee, roast level either and if 8 -8.5 is not great then the poor niche only scored 6!


 I don't know about the "poor Niche" the Niche has over 10 million in sales (my bad, over 9.6 million) with very few issues and that doesn't include the Chinese/Asia Pacific market. It must be doing something right for that many people to like it...perhaps it's because its affordable performance and extremely low retention in a compact package with no faff or spraying water. James certainly seemed to like it.

If the new flat burr grinder you are designing and launching is even half as successful as the Niche, I imagine you would be very pleased....especially if it can come in at half the price of the Lagom and scores a 7 or higher on the Hoffman metric.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53722-what-would-you-want-to-see-in-a-grinder/?do=embed#comments


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Fwiw he did say that a 10 would be the best most amazing coffee.

And he sings the praises of the niche, but righly so it should never be compared to a grinder thats 5 times is cost.

I suppose he could of plugged his coffee and the machine he was using,

We can all pick holes in it.

Lets face it the guy had 15k of grinders to play with 😂 he also said hed spent weeks with each, if you look at previous vids you can see them in the back

Hes entertaining, id say one of the least bias coffee people ive seen and very knowledgeable.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


> Fwiw he did say that a 10 would be the best most amazing coffee.


 Sure, but whatever the scale, a top score would be a handful of coffees in a lifetime. No one should reasonably expect 10/10 coffees to be regular, or semi regular. Whereas, if you're buying good coffee 80%+ average cups should be the norm...even with a £500-£1000 grinder (cheaper for brewed).


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


> Fwiw he did say that a 10 would be the best most amazing coffee.


 Assume scale Hoffman is using is logarithmic - so there is a quantum leap between each level.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Sure, but whatever the scale, a top score would be a handful of coffees in a lifetime. No one should reasonably expect 10/10 coffees to be regular, or semi regular. Whereas, if you're buying good coffee 80%+ average cups should be the norm...even with a £500-£1000 grinder (cheaper for brewed).


 Yeah very true, he openly admits its nitpicking

Which it is,

With any of them your going to get great results, amazing even. Think thats why they were so closely grouped, and prob why he didnt do a blind test


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@The Systemic Kid - I think it's fine to have a scale where a 10 is almost "so flawlessly impressive it makes me question the very nature of coffee and I will never view it in the same way again after drinking this".

We have similar problems in work with our client satisfaction ratings, our US corporate group view anything less than a 9 out of 10 as negative feedback. 🙄

Unless they can balance unimaginable levels of flavour clarity and tonnes of body all at the same time, I couldn't see how any of them would get 10 out of 10.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

My modded Eks with zircon encrusted burrs scores 11 out of 10 - hard to believe, I know, but it's been empirically tested and proved.


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)




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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


>


 Yep it does

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/13725-goes-all-the-way-up-to-11/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=139491&embedComment=139491&embedDo=findComment#comment-139491


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@The Systemic Kid i always thought you had an hg1


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Cuprajake Sir Lancelot also has Silver Knight Burrs....so it has to score an 11 possibly even a 12 out of 10


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Was looking at fancy burrs for the mazzer, cost more than the grinder 😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️

Im at a happy 9.75 atm 😛


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> I don't know about the "poor Niche" the Niche has over 10 million in sales (my bad, over 9.6 million) with very few issues and that doesn't include the Chinese/Asia Pacific market. It must be doing something right for that many people to like it...perhaps it's because its affordable performance and extremely low retention in a compact package with no faff or spraying water. James certainly seemed to like it.
> 
> If the new flat burr grinder you are designing and launching is even half as successful as the Niche, I imagine you would be very pleased....especially if it can come in at half the price of the Lagom and scores a 7 or higher on the Hoffman metric.
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53722-what-would-you-want-to-see-in-a-grinder/?do=embed#comments


 Not sure what the picture represents but hey ho, let all the niche defenders and promoters do there worst, same record or not others comment on this but I get all the punches, luckily I have the big boy pants on today but don't to do it tomorrow as I will be more facile then.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


>


 And the beat goes.......


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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

MWJB said:


> If he had them for "quite a number of shots over some weeks" why weren't there 10 grinds per grinder for the dose consistency? This stuff takes seconds to do, in comparison.
> 
> If they were "all very good grinders", why only 8-8.5/10 scores for the shots? Specialty coffee is the top 20% by definition, shouldn't these grinders do more than just scrape by?
> 
> We can't judge taste (changing coffee affects taste more than anything) from a video, but we can be informed on efficiency, repeatability (which I don't expect to be an issue) & relative performance. Even if there wasn't videos for every aspect, a link to some results is possible.


 On the first point, because he wasn't trying to do that kind of review.

On the second point, it's a meaningless question. There isn't some predefined perfection to measure against, so his scores were a guide, a yardstick, not a scientific designation. And, because he found things he didn't like that much in all of them, but different things, some of which were minor, and that will mean different thuings to different people. But you have to keep such scores in context, and he gave the context in his comments, not relying solely on a score out of 10. It's a bit like rating a Ferrari against a Rolls Royce - neither are perfect, both are extremely good and they aren't necessarily designed to appeal to the same category of buyer because they are very different..

And on the third point, because he wasn't trying to do that kind of review.


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

Not sure what the fuss is. Even if he were pocketing the 15k a month from Patreon, his annual income would still be less than a middle ranking banker and would only be a couple of weeks of that of some bloke kicking a bag of wind around a field. But of course it is not. The set & the crew doesn't come for free. I suspect the main gain for him is indirect. He remains well known -> he is associated with Square Mile -> SM get a boost to its reputation -> quids in! Nothing wrong with that.

What I like is that he gives pros and cons of every machine he looks at. Right, it's not the most in depth review you will ever see, but even an in depth review can only take you some of the way. You are getting the perspective of a well respected expert, delivered in an entertaining way. There is no such thing as an unbiased review. At the minimum you get the tastes of the reviewer, but usually there are all sorts of enmeshed relationships with suppliers, manufacturers etc. to muddy the waters. That doesn't mean they are not valuable, but you just have to put them into context.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

He did drink coffee jelly though, so fair play 🤢🤮


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Not sure what the picture represents


 I suspect, it is a suggestion that you are playing your usual record over and over again......I might be wrong though


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I suspect, it is a suggestion that you are playing your usual record over and over again......I might be wrong though


 Touché nothing changes hey


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CoffeePhilE said:


> On the first point, because he wasn't trying to do that kind of review.
> 
> On the second point, it's a meaningless question. There isn't some predefined perfection to measure against, so his scores were a guide, a yardstick, not a scientific designation. And, because he found things he didn't like that much in all of them, but different things, some of which were minor, and that will mean different thuings to different people. But you have to keep such scores in context, and he gave the context in his comments, not relying solely on a score out of 10. It's a bit like rating a Ferrari against a Rolls Royce - neither are perfect, both are extremely good and they aren't necessarily designed to appeal to the same category of buyer because they are very different..
> 
> And on the third point, because he wasn't trying to do that kind of review.


 First point - so why any figures? He clearly was insinuating a grading/standard based on dose consistency.

Second point - difference is great, choice is great, diversity is great - but he deals with cup scores every day. On the basis of his review only 1 grinder 'worked'. An 85% Colombian is equal to an 85% Rwandan, yet they can be very different. If they're 70% when brewed as typical espresso, something is deeply wrong.

Third point - if he was just giving a opinion, there would be no scores, no dose consistency. What kind of review was he trying to do, if it has absolutely no utility?

He appears to be coming at this bringing his professional experience to bear...but then, he does a review where some things appear bizarrely awesome & others 'meh'?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Touché nothing changes hey


 Well, post a stupid question and what do you expect


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

This is all Hoffman's fault, you won't catch me listening to a word he says.

What do you think? Is it Hoffman's fault? Let me know in the comments below.

Thanks for listening and have a great day


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Not sure what the picture represents but hey ho, let all the niche defenders and promoters do there worst,


 I linked your grinder thread, the forum software saw fit to add that photo to the link for some reason. The person who posted the photo will probably know...I have no idea.

My only point was if your grinder does even half as well as the Niche in sales you would be very pleased. Which means your comments about the "poor Niche" miss the point. It's improved the coffee experience of more people than those expensive grinders ever will.

This makes the Niche quite an important grinder. It's not about defending it, promoting it, or being a fanboy. It's just a statement of fact.

It's a grinder that is already driving change in other manufacturers affordable grinders. I have been testing some prototypes over the last few months and interesting affordable stuff is on the Horizon.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Well, post a stupid question and what do you expect


 Perhaps if you responded to right photo as DaveC kindly did then you might see that the question is not so stupid. Never let the truth get on the way of speculation hey?


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

MWJB said:


> An 85% Colombian is equal to an 85% Rwandan, yet they can be very different. If they're 70% when brewed as typical espresso, something is deeply wrong.


 Surely it would have been more confusing if he used the same grades as the coffee themselves. I think be adding the niche into the reckoning, he showed that, in is view, there was clear water between the two classes of machine. Of the 5, the EK came out worst, but he made it clear that it serves a different market.

I quite liked the review. I'd give it an 8 or 8.5


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## Bicky (Oct 24, 2019)

I like him. I think he's trying to appeal to a broad range of people and you can't please everyone, so I guess his content and depth of detail can be a bit all over the place. I always find his videos fun and often informative though, and he's never said or done anything which makes me question his honesty.



DavecUK said:


> I have been testing some prototypes over the last few months and interesting affordable stuff is on the Horizon.


 Great news! I was going to (and still might) create a thread about this very topic. Hopefully the not too far away horizon....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

earthflattener said:


> Surely it would have been more confusing if he used the same grades as the coffee themselves. I think be adding the niche into the reckoning, he showed that, in is view, there was clear water between the two classes of machine. Of the 5, the EK came out worst, but he made it clear that it serves a different market.
> 
> I quite liked the review. I'd give it an 8 or 8.5


 I don't know what the coffee grades were. But 8 out of 10, and 80% are the same thing.

You're taking me too literally, just to say that my enjoyment of coffee is the reason I buy it & make it, 50% isn't good enough for me, mass market coffee & pods can be 60-70%, if spending £5k will nudge 80-85% the emperor is truly naked.

I have no problem adding the Niche into the reckoning, as to class - what are the classes, arbitrary grades not taken into account? If the classes are definable, he should be able to do that, rather than waffle on about the mythological "unimodal espresso".


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> I don't know what the coffee grades were. But 8 out of 10, and 80% are the same thing.
> 
> You're taking me too literally, just to say that my enjoyment of coffee is the reason I buy it & make it, 50% isn't good enough for me, mass market coffee & pods can be 60-70%, if spending £5k will nudge 80-85% the emperor is truly naked.
> 
> I have no problem adding the Niche into the reckoning, as to class - what are the classes, arbitrary grades not taken into account? If the classes are definable, he should be able to do that, rather than waffle on about the mythological "unimodal espresso".


 But he grades the grinders on his perception of their performance, build quality and functionality and is quite specific about this, he is not grading the shot they pull out of ten.


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## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Well, post a stupid question and what do you expect


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> But he grades the grinders on his perception of their performance, build quality and functionality and is quite specific about this, he is not grading the shot they pull out of ten.


 Watch it again, he graded the shots he made with the grinders, on the attributes of the espresso. Not on technical attributes of the grinders.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Watch it again, he graded the shots he made with the grinders, on the attributes of the espresso. Not on technical attributes of the grinders.


 Watch all the videos, it's takes a while though


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> I linked your grinder thread, the forum software saw fit to add that photo to the link for some reason. The person who posted the photo will probably know...I have no idea.


 That's really odd and very random.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53722-what-would-you-want-to-see-in-a-grinder/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=765116&embedComment=765116&embedDo=findComment#comment-765116


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@coffeechap I have no idea, the picture just came up? I have no idea what it means or why one of your friends posted it?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Meanwhile over at decent, John has shelved the EG1 in favour of the Niche.

Different folks...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Did he explain why though?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

maybe more of his clients use a niche..


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Cuprajake said:


> maybe more of his clients use a niche..


 Maybe no so many people can justify the total price of a set up being what 6000 dollars ?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


> maybe more of his clients use a niche..


 Isn't a Decent niche??😀


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

haha


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Did he explain why though?


 He did. Can't remember what he said though exactly. It's in one of the long videos where he's doing the Rao blooming espresso over zoom and someone spots the eg1 in the background.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> He did. Can't remember what he said though exactly. It's in one of the long videos where he's doing the Rao blooming espresso over zoom and someone spots the eg1 in the background.







Third comment down...


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

> 1 hour ago, MWJB said:


 Interesting. From 23:15


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## bluesith (Dec 20, 2020)

He's absolutely brilliant. Very well made videos . Lots to ponder.


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## Hieronymus (Feb 3, 2021)

I'd never heard of coffee before watching his videos.

But seriously, he has some good content. Not that I watch all of his uploads.

Surprised to read some people dislike him and his content but still watch his videos.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@Rob1

You could argue that he was finding excused to not like that grinder, most of what he said was easily sorted.

Like grind into a cup not the pf, add a spritz of water for static

My main concer which was a feature of 4 of the grinders was the variable rpm. Its just not needed

I can liken this to reefing, marine fish more over coral

Back in the day they were lit by one type of light, a very powerful bulb.

Then the led came along and changed everything. We could now program lights, make they do any colour spectrum we wanted, and do you know what we learnt?

That the best way to grow them was to mimic the old buld.

I think as enthusiasts, we inheritly want to prat, the more option of there are the more we will. And he hit it on the head, it just needs to be reliable, thats what the niche is.

Old adage keep it simple stupid


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I also liked that the niche was discussed as so many folk want to compare that with a really expensive grinders and the fact that he put into perspective was great.


 Although I don't doubt they are excellent grinders and for sure each one of them must be better than the Niche... So I was a little surprised and sceptical to read this. It's possible that schomer and his customers like the same kind of espresso as me? perhaps the Niche isn't so much of a "poor" cousin

https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/niche-zero-grinder-t48287-2670.html#p771826

So I did some digging...to my mind this has to be Espresso Vivace taking the piss.... ????


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

^ well that'll certainly stop the popcorning


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Amazing .......I reckoned that quite a few proper cafes used Niche for decaf, but for me the workflow would make normal use just to difficult. Presumably they must grind onto scales for dose accuracy. I think a few of us ought to have a diy go at this mod. Whether you like it or not, the Niche has been one of the biggest recent success stories in the global coffee scene and it really ought to be sitting on a pedestal. Can anyone else think of a better success story? And best of all, after a couple of years the price has not altered yet it has been improved with the NFC disk and they still sell out with every tranche released.......WELL DONE NICHE, I say!


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Doesn't adding a hopper to a SINGLE dose grinder kinda negate the point ???????????????? a grinder thats sole purpose was to be used for single dosing ????


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Cuprajake said:


> Doesn't adding a hopper to a SINGLE dose grinder kinda negate the point ???????????????? a grinder thats sole purpose was to be used for single dosing ????


 As opposed to single dosing a on demand grinder that's meant to run with a hopper ?


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## Hieronymus (Feb 3, 2021)

DavecUK said:


>


 I didn't know pros use polystyrene dosing cups. Must be a best kept secret.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@Mrboots2u


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Cuprajake said:


> @Mrboots2u


 Much to learn you still have my young padawan


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)




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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Omg i thought that stuff was supposed to stay on topic perhaps the mods should paste a new thread about niche being used commercially


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

It is on topic.

Were talking about how the niche is better than 15k worth lf grinders


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)




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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

MWJB said:


> First point - so why any figures? He clearly was insinuating a grading/standard based on dose consistency.
> 
> Second point - difference is great, choice is great, diversity is great - but he deals with cup scores every day. On the basis of his review only 1 grinder 'worked'. An 85% Colombian is equal to an 85% Rwandan, yet they can be very different. If they're 70% when brewed as typical espresso, something is deeply wrong.
> 
> ...


 The kind of review he was doing was a quick look at coffee exotica, almost certainly aimed largely at those never likely to buy any of them. Who buys £3000 grinders? Either those with an absolute osession to the best (and fairly deep pockets) or those for whom that kind of price tag is immaterial. I doubt the latter would be watching grinder reviews on Youtube, and I doubt the former would be relying on a 10 ti 15 minute review of each grinder, and a 25 minute shootout.

Who would watch it? People like forum members here, most of whom are serious enthusiasts but aren't ever likely to pay that sort of money for a grinder because life puts too many other demands on the averae person's finances. The few here that might be serious about buying that kind of grinder aren't likely to base their decsion on a few minutes on Youtube.

He pointed out, quite clearly, that all those grinders were clustered right in the very high end of extremely good, that the differences between them were very small. He described his opinion of the shots they produced, and also pointed out that it wasn't about the shots. if he was doing that kind of review, it would have had to include a much wider variety of shots of different coffees, different roasts, different brewing methods even, and that wasn't what he was doing. It was more like a Clarkson & Co Top Gear comparison of three exotic supercars - a look for those never likely to seriously own such cars, very likely never drive them either, at what money-no-object looks like. He was giving a Quick Look at grinder exotica. Not a scientific review of the shots he did. Why give numbers at all? I don't know. Maybe to emphasise just how close they were. Why don't you email him and ask if it bothers you. Or, if you don't like his reviews, just don't watch them. Or, riase the money, buy the grinders yourself and do a review the way you want it done.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@CoffeePhilE I just do reviews the way I want them done and only review stuff I want to review. 😉


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> @CoffeePhilE I just do reviews the way I want them done and only review stuff I want to review. 😉


 What, no ulterior motive...crickey, thats a novel idea


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## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @CoffeePhilE I just do reviews the way I want them done and only review stuff I want to review. 😉


 I don't blame you. I would too, these days.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

CoffeePhilE said:


> I don't blame you. I would too, these days.


 I have more calls on my time than I have time available, so I can pick and choose.

My current interest project is the V-Vostock


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CoffeePhilE said:


> The kind of review he was doing was a quick look at coffee exotica, almost certainly aimed largely at those never likely to buy any of them. Who buys £3000 grinders? Either those with an absolute osession to the best (and fairly deep pockets) or those for whom that kind of price tag is immaterial. I doubt the latter would be watching grinder reviews on Youtube, and I doubt the former would be relying on a 10 ti 15 minute review of each grinder, and a 25 minute shootout.
> 
> Who would watch it? People like forum members here, most of whom are serious enthusiasts but aren't ever likely to pay that sort of money for a grinder because life puts too many other demands on the averae person's finances. The few here that might be serious about buying that kind of grinder aren't likely to base their decsion on a few minutes on Youtube.
> 
> He pointed out, quite clearly, that all those grinders were clustered right in the very high end of extremely good, that the differences between them were very small. He described his opinion of the shots they produced, and also pointed out that it wasn't about the shots. if he was doing that kind of review, it would have had to include a much wider variety of shots of different coffees, different roasts, different brewing methods even, and that wasn't what he was doing. It was more like a Clarkson & Co Top Gear comparison of three exotic supercars - a look for those never likely to seriously own such cars, very likely never drive them either, at what money-no-object looks like. He was giving a Quick Look at grinder exotica. Not a scientific review of the shots he did. Why give numbers at all? I don't know. Maybe to emphasise just how close they were. Why don't you email him and ask if it bothers you. Or, if you don't like his reviews, just don't watch them. Or, riase the money, buy the grinders yourself and do a review the way you want it done.


 I have e-mailed him, occasionally he has replied. I watch what I want, I comment directly on that platform & this in the relevant thread, as I am free to do. If I didn't watch his videos, I wouldn't know what I was talking about. I don't just watch stuff I agree with, because there's lots I don't know & always open to learning something new.

His video said very different things to me that it appears to have said to you, we all have our own perceptions.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What, no ulterior motive...crickey, thats a novel idea


 Just a hobby for me. I have no need for subscribers clicks or anything else. It's all for the fun of it. Some projects have a special significance though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Just a hobby for me. I have no need for subscribers clicks or anything else. It's all for the fun of it. Some projects have a special significance though.


 Shhhhhh, it might be contagious and others might catch your approach.......then where would we end up!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Cuprajake said:


> @Rob1
> 
> You could argue that he was finding excused to not like that grinder, most of what he said was easily sorted.
> 
> Like grind into a cup not the pf, add a spritz of water for static


 You could try, but then he owns both and has used both extensively (presumably). I'm not in a position to have an opinion on the EG1. Presumably he has tried RDT and he tried grinding into the blind tumbler that goes with the grinder. If he thought it were easily sorted he wouldn't have found it to be an issue. I'd guess the consistency and reliability is affected e.g. sometimes you'll get more static, needing to redistribute the mess and the cone shape from the dosing cup, or the dose from an alternative dosing cup like the niche, could cause variance. And maybe he just thought any gains in shot quality weren't worth it, especially if those gains were unreliable or offset. But ultimately I don't know, I can only go of what he said.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Do we know why grinders create static? Or is it more bean dependant, i experienced it with both the niche and the mazzer.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)




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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


> Do we know why grinders create static? Or is it more bean dependant, i experienced it with both the niche and the mazzer.


 Inevitable consequence of grinding - lighter beans with more visible chaff make it more obvious, in itself it's usually not a big deal, beyond not being pretty.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> Amazing .......I reckoned that quite a few proper cafes used Niche for decaf, but for me the workflow would make normal use just to difficult. Presumably they must grind onto scales for dose accuracy. I think a few of us ought to have a diy go at this mod. Whether you like it or not, the Niche has been one of the biggest recent success stories in the global coffee scene and it really ought to be sitting on a pedestal. Can anyone else think of a better success story? And best of all, after a couple of years the price has not altered yet it has been improved with the NFC disk and they still sell out with every tranche released.......WELL DONE NICHE, I say!


You are right but I think it's just a matter of time until a new, better and cheaper grinder will come up. It's the simple and ruthless law of competition. For the Europeans it has just become 160€ more expensive so many people will think twice....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

profesor_historia said:


> dfk41 said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing .......I reckoned that quite a few proper cafes used Niche for decaf, but for me the workflow would make normal use just to difficult. Presumably they must grind onto scales for dose accuracy. I think a few of us ought to have a diy go at this mod. Whether you like it or not, the Niche has been one of the biggest recent success stories in the global coffee scene and it really ought to be sitting on a pedestal. Can anyone else think of a better success story? And best of all, after a couple of years the price has not altered yet it has been improved with the NFC disk and they still sell out with every tranche released.......WELL DONE NICHE, I say!
> ...


 Unless they are bright enough to set up a European office to distribute if from


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Unless they are bright enough to set up a European office to distribute if from


I think this is the next and logical step, many other companies will do the same.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

dfk41 said:


> He is making videos to make money and support his online ego.........


 I'd rather have someone doing this than not. I'm glad he's making money because he's producing good content.

The hard fact is to be a truly independent reviewer, you need to separate your revenue streams from your content. Not remove your revenue streams altogether.


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## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

Am I missing something, or did JH not mention what burrs are in the ek? Presumably coffee burrs as opposed to turkish, as he mentions chasing the grind? I was a bit confused by his comments on the burr situation in the ek.

Given that most of these grinders are an effective mount for "A.N. Big Burr", it would have been interesting to see how they compare after he'd stuffed the same flavour of SSP burrs in them. In for a penny, etc.

Perhaps his espresso 9 or 10 is reserved for a mythos with a full bag of beans in the hopper, but he can't say because of the conflict of interest.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

You're highlighting some of the apples and oranges comparisons in the tests. EKs he was using was fitted with stock Mahlkonig coffee burrs. Would have been interesting to see what, if any, SSPs would have made. Perhaps that's pencilled in for another video.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Michael87 said:


> I'd rather have someone doing this than not. I'm glad he's making money because he's producing good content.
> 
> The hard fact is to be a truly independent reviewer, you need to separate your revenue streams from your content. Not remove your revenue streams altogether.


 My comment was to a poster who suggested Hoffman was not a business. I have no problem with Youtube channels. I do not send money to any of them so it does not bother me. If you have your own income stream from elsewhere, then you do not have to go on to YT and talk nonsense. Hoffmans is an entertainment channel where some of his content is serious, some not, some frivolous.....but please, do not suggest he is doing it for any reason other than self gratification and to make money


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## SeeYaLater (Feb 14, 2021)

I think there's something to be said for the fact that a lot of us (me included!) used his videos to get serious about coffee. He might be just one man streaming his opinion on YouTube, but he's a really accessible entry point into a kind of obtuse hobby. And the more people get into this hobby, the better!


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

SeeYaLater said:


> I think there's something to be said for the fact that a lot of us (me included!) used his videos to get serious about coffee. He might be just one man streaming his opinion on YouTube, but he's a really accessible entry point into a kind of obtuse hobby. And the more people get into this hobby, the better!


 I think the fact that there has been 138 replies so far to this topic says it all. He definitely gets a reaction and has many peoples attention.


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## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> My comment was to a poster who suggested Hoffman was not a business. I have no problem with Youtube channels. I do not send money to any of them so it does not bother me. If you have your own income stream from elsewhere, then you do not have to go on to YT and talk nonsense. Hoffmans is an entertainment channel where some of his content is serious, some not, some frivolous.....but please, do not suggest he is doing it for any reason other than self gratification and to make money


 I think this is the essence of most YouTube channels. Unless you are a company sharing information, than it is generally self gratification, ego, or making money. And there's nothing wrong with someone like Hoffman making money, or anyone that has achieved something, with genuine expertise to share. Where it gets problematic is in reviews where there becomes a vested interest, without being honest about it. Alas, youtube is crammed full of wannabe experts too that claim it's not for money, yet are generally just trying to building up a profile, that will eventually make them money. It's ego central.

But IT IS a great place. to find info and how to do things.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Well this thread is a few minutes I'll never get back. Glad I dropped in!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

He essentially does it for money. TheEspressoTV is much better. Just wish he did English versions of all of them.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

From the content he's produced (that I've watched), I think he's good. I liked his CCD and sage Brewer videos.
I do find myself starring at his hair!


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

I think he's great, which I put down to him being from the Midlands 👍

For me he provides consistently good content, isn't overly bias and provides a good mix of serious and fun.

You can't doubt his credentials but his motives...who cares?!


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

ajohn said:


> ...He *essentially* does it for money...


 Of course; *he's a businessman*...the Patreon income will have some "surplus" left over after he's purchased the items he's reviewing (and later gives away). He clearly (*unlike some*) mentions about the Patreon in his video's...i admire his "*honesty*" .....I love the fact that he doesn't "keep" the stuff for himself...i.e. "not in it for the perks/freebies/backhanders/other" :classic_wink:



Chriss29 said:


> ...For me he provides consistently good content, *isn't overly bias* and provides a good mix of serious and fun...


 Agreed...shame some others that do reviews don't take a leaf from his book....they could learn a thing or two IMO.

Top bloke, everyone else pales in comparison...however YMMV.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

Some of you sounds like putting stuff on the Internet to make money is a bad or negative thing. Of all the stuff on Youtube, James' has a very high production quality and good content. It's a mix of the serious tests and review with the entertaining car coffee and coffee sludge.

Most of us go to work every weekday to make money. That James happened to get into a job that is also one of his favourite hobbies is just a sidenote.

As for his motives, why don't you ask him rather than make assumptions? Not that I see why it matters. You can do something that you both enjoy for the sake of doing it and the income. I know he makes good money on the channel and Patreon, but not what his accounts looks like. He seems to invest quite a few hours into making the videos, which he can do because he has a direct income from the content he produces.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I do find myself starring at his hair!


 And I thought it was just me! I do find him highly entertaining because while I'm nosy I don't especially care about much of the in depth minutiae - but don't like to be fobbed off by people who know nothing. He has a good mix of entertainment, supported by great knowledge. Bit like going to see your GP I guess, you want to know THEY know what they're on about, but you want them to tell you in words of one syllable! I never for a moment thought he wasn't getting money from the channel. I work in the voluntary expectation and while recognising some people can and do volunteer for free actually many people need to earn money, and we need to be much less squeamish about that.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

Zephyp said:


> Some of you sounds like putting stuff on the Internet to make money is a bad or negative thing.


 I believe that for some people it has been difficult to adjust, since it is only in the last few years that these types of content have been monetised. Previously, most of the knowledge to be found online was free - and here came the wrong conclusion that all knowledge should be, in essence, free of charge. And every content creator, no matter how much effort they put into their content, should be a public servant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm moderately annoyed that kids make millions by doing silly stuff on TikTok (mostly cause I'd also like to earn money for doing nothing!), or filming random idiotic stuff (was it called MrBeast or something?). However, James Hoffman might not be perfect, his opinions might not be agreeable to everyone - but it would be short-sighted to group him with these characters.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> He essentially does it for money. TheEspressoTV is much better. Just wish he did English versions of all of them.


 Errr agree to disagree, hiss coffee making skills are at best slapdash.

GIven Mr espresso is a retail seller off machines what do you think he is in it for >


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

haventadog said:


> I think this is the essence of most YouTube channels. Unless you are a company sharing information, than it is generally self gratification, ego, or making money. And there's nothing wrong with someone like Hoffman making money, or anyone that has achieved something, with genuine expertise to share. Where it gets problematic is in reviews where there becomes a vested interest, without being honest about it. Alas, youtube is crammed full of wannabe experts too that claim it's not for money, yet are generally just trying to building up a profile, that will eventually make them money. It's ego central.
> 
> But IT IS a great place. to find info and how to do things.


 Agree - most of the stuff he reviews he does not retail or sell. He doesn't push his own coffee in the videos and the odd bit he has retailed are either not gonna make anyone rich ( Wilfa ).

When you look in the comments section , its clear his personality , production skills etc are bringing new people to watch about good coffee. More good demand for good coffee, is good for the farmers , roasters, and the market as a whole.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But, this begs the question.....is he posting new vids every couple of days because he is monetised, a narcissist, a genuine all round nice guy or what have you. Bottom line is if he was not making money out of his channel, then his motivation for doing it could not be financial......and please do not quote that Patreon Red Herring!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> But, this begs the question.....is he posting new vids every couple of days because he is monetised, a narcissist, a genuine all round nice guy or what have you. Bottom line is if he was not making money out of his channel, then his motivation for doing it could not be financial......and please do not quote that Patreon Red Herring!


 He is a what have you for sure....

I will no doubt never meet him so if he is a narcissist , it doesn't effect me ( unless he starts running for PM )

Making videos of that quality takes a lot of time and investment in camera and editing gerar , so any cash he is making from views is ok by me.

Money from actual views ( as opposed to sponsorship and Patreon ) isn't going to make you a millionaire with his sub count.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> He is a what have you for sure....
> 
> I will no doubt never meet him so if he is a narcissist , it doesn't effect me ( unless he starts running for PM )
> 
> ...


 I have absolutely no problem with him making money from his status! I am merely questioning whether his real motivation can be anything, other than financial. You can wrap it up how you want, but there is always a reason for doing something. You might really enjoy your day job, Boots but if it did not pay you, then you would not do it


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## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

retty



dfk41 said:


> But, this begs the question.....is he posting new vids every couple of days because he is monetised, a narcissist, a genuine all round nice guy or what have you. Bottom line is if he was not making money out of his channel, then his motivation for doing it could not be financial......and please do not quote that Patreon Red Herring!


 I don't see the issue. He is a business man, and is upfront about that. He makes money from his passion and his knowledge. He invests his time in doing that and the results are worthwhile content for people that do not have his knowledge or experience. It's content marketing. Not sure I see any difference to some one like Jamie Oliver, or such.

What I see no evidence of - is his claiming to not make money - or any blatant affliiaton whilst denying one exists. I don't see anything that would suggest his motivation is purely money, more that he has (like everyone in business does) found a way to make money from what he does for a living. Fair play.

Narcissism - he'd more likely be claiming that he was doing it for no reason other than helping others, when it was blatantly obvious that he was benefiting from regularly promoting specific products, whilst trying to subtlety suggest unfounded flaws in other products. The business narcissist is always helpful to brands that serve a purpose, but never unless there is something in it for them.

Seems to me, he is pretty straight.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Missy said:


> And I thought it was just me! I do find him highly entertaining because while I'm nosy I don't especially care about much of the in depth minutiae - but don't like to be fobbed off by people who know nothing. He has a good mix of entertainment, supported by great knowledge. Bit like going to see your GP I guess, you want to know THEY know what they're on about, but you want them to tell you in words of one syllable! I never for a moment thought he wasn't getting money from the channel. I work in the voluntary expectation and while recognising some people can and do volunteer for free actually many people need to earn money, and we need to be much less squeamish about that.


 I totally agree with the GP comment. He does seem to remind me of a very competent family GP, unrushed (rare for these times I know), in command of the situation with a very soothing voice that instils trust and he seems very "human". I do wonder if he asked half of his audience to take off the lower half of their clothing they wouldn't question it!


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## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

Yeah he is very good with his delivery, depth of content and production value. He actually ends up talking about lots of stuff I genuinely don't care, worry of think about but it's made watchable somehow. I thought at first he had a tiny violins section constantly following him in the way he talks about his 'frustrations' and the like, but it actually becomes clear quite quickly he does things quite light heartedly too and doesn't take himself too seriously.

And clearly lots of people agree: YouTube is a very democratic medium, if your content doesn't work, you will disappear, unless you have an unhealthy appetite for spending time and money for absolutely no return, be it gratification or financial. His viewership and Patreon network shows he provides something people value, trust and are entertained by.

Does he make money? Of course he does, and good for him. We only tend (or at least try!) to do things for two reasons, pleasure and money - like it or not, we need both in this world - and churning out content so well curated and produced on such a regular basis for the simple pleasure of it would quickly become a pretty masochistic endeavour!

It's fascinating though to see how much YouTube still has an aura of a mystifying medium of sorts, I should think there wouldn't be half as much discussion and half as many opinions past the 'like him' or 'don't like him' on him and his work had he had a coffee segment on some tv show.


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## Andy Brown (Feb 11, 2021)

As a relative newcomer to the world of coffee I enjoy his videos. They are simple yet informative and help with areas that a lot of the time I never even think of.


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## Walker29 (Jan 10, 2021)

James also got me into proper coffee. I find James one of the few youtubers that have a quiet substance to their videos, with a soothing voice that isn't rushed. A lot of channels talk at you at 100mph with an irritating upbeat zaniness. What could be better than a softly spoken English gentleman playing with expensive coffee toys?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> But, this begs the question.....is he posting new vids every couple of days because he is monetised, a narcissist, a genuine all round nice guy or what have you. Bottom line is if he was not making money out of his channel, then his motivation for doing it could not be financial......and please do not quote that Patreon Red Herring!


 Why does have to be just one of them? Cant' he be a nice guy that also makes money on the content he puts up? And what does it take to be a nice guy? That you put content on the Internet for free? That you give to the poor and help old people over the crosswalk? And does it matter? I'm thankful we don't know the true identity of every person we meet or watch online, because I don't think we would like a lot of what we saw.

I have multiple motivations for a lot of the activities in life. I drink coffee mostly because it taste good, it makes me feel good, it has become a habit/addiction, so my body does not like it if I skip coffee, it gives a little energy boost. I write on Internet forums because I like to discuss, I like to help others, I like to receive help, I like to learn.

Maybe his initial motivation (before thousands of views and Patreon) was to make coffee related videos on various subjects that he thought were lacking on Youtube. Maybe he wanted to make shorter videos without too much expectations for having an income. Or maybe he wanted to make money while putting up quality content and wanted to give it a go. As his channel grew in popularity and he got a Patreon, he sees that he can actually make some money on this, so he keeps posting videos because he loves coffee, wants to get more people into coffee, want to educate people on specialty coffee, want to make more money.

He currently makes $21,845 a month before taxes on Patreon. He has given away a lot of the equipment he's bought, and coffee. Just recently he gave away four expensive grinders, worth around $15,000.

These questions can be asked about anyone producing content for the Internet, and I don't really see the point. Either you like it or you don't. You don't have to know the motivation behind everything, but for anyone making any kind of money on it, you can always assume that is a part of the motivation, or a way to fund the hours and money you spend on it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Oh dear! Having read through your piece, what I would say is that it is your opinion, in exactly the same way as my thoughts are my opinion. Just to be clear, I am saying the reason he does all this stuff, is to make money and feed the narcissistic tendencies many 'celebs' have of constantly having to be 'seen'. Nothing wrong with that at all as it is just another way of making a living.

Some of you seem to think that in this day and age, the right way to become a pop star is to win Pop Idols.....that is an insult to the bands of earlier days who ploughed up and down the country in the back of a van playing in Working Mens clubs night after night, therefore the acceptance now that being a Youtuber is both correct and financially sound......

Anyone who thinks Hoffman is just another nice guy who currently scoops $257,820 per annum from Patreon before he gives some back is quite frankly deranged! He is a multi faceted businessman who makes no decisions with commercial considerations. The fact that some of you deem this normal is fine by me, as again, that is my opinion......but please, cut the've is just a nice guy trying to scrape a living' nonsense out!


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## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

@dfk41 No, going on pop idol is not an insult to "the bands of earlier days" because you just go on tv and get famous for a while, it is an insult to the craft of musicianship because those people are largely devoid of a real talent, message, creativity and ability to make a significant impact for the better.

Going on tv to sing someone else's song as patiently drilled by a vocal coach is just something that has nothing to do with what "the bands of earlier days" did, and why said bands are very much of current day, too. Apples and oranges.

Likewise, having something to say and getting an audience because of it is not being the flavour of week because of your smile and little else, and the implication that making money let alone a career out of YouTube content is a cheap pathway to some level of undeserved overnight success is ill informed at best and malicious at worst.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@ales

This is about aspirations matey......the youth of today want all the success with none of the hard work. In the 1960'd, If you had asked Paul McCartney who his vocal coach was he would have blinked in amazement. The purpose of going up and down the roadway to learn your craft. You can throw any number of basically talentless individuals together and if 'managed' correctly they can become a success, but you cannot throw any old bunch of musicians together and teach them to write music. All the super groups that have ever existed have been a bunch of talented musicians who came together. The music industry is about money and exploitation......a bit like YouTube, dress it up as you will.

There as a story, allegedly true, that a couple off years ago, a teenage American couple who had nothing at all, were so desperate for their YT channel to take off, that they came up with a stunt. Having seen a couple of films, they shot a video where he fashioned a metal plate to fit over his chest and she then shot him with a .45 handgun. Far from bolstering their channel, she went to jail for murder


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

So now we're implying a guy who's become World Barista Champion has done "none of the hard work" and we're likening his videos, crafted with plenty of research, time and effort, to idiotic pistol stunts to gain popularity.

Ach well.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> @ales
> 
> This is about aspirations matey......the youth of today want all the success with none of the hard work. In the 1960'd, If you had asked Paul McCartney who his vocal coach was he would have blinked in amazement. The purpose of going up and down the roadway to learn your craft. You can throw any number of basically talentless individuals together and if 'managed' correctly they can become a success, but you cannot throw any old bunch of musicians together and teach them to write music. All the super groups that have ever existed have been a bunch of talented musicians who came together. The music industry is about money and exploitation......a bit like YouTube, dress it up as you will.
> 
> There as a story, allegedly true, that a couple off years ago, a teenage American couple who had nothing at all, were so desperate for their YT channel to take off, that they came up with a stunt. Having seen a couple of films, they shot a video where he fashioned a metal plate to fit over his chest and she then shot him with a .45 handgun. Far from bolstering their channel, she went to jail for murder


 This is totally tenuous even for you .

You should start a YouTube drama channel mate, be right up your street


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

I, like most people on here, can't claim to know if he is a nice guy or not as we haven't met him in person. What I do know is that he was a world barista champion and if I'm not mistaken started Square Mile before making videos? Seems to me that he's done the hard work prior to YouTube and sure, he's making money from YouTube but his videos seem genuine and informative and as mentioned previously said videos take a lot of time and effort to make/edit. You might have an issue with people wanting to make themselves famous from YouTube and think it's easy because we hear of so many people who are but I'm pretty sure it's extremely hard to have a popular YouTube channel and there are not many people who succeed at it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Baffo said:


> So now we're implying a guy who's become World Barista Champion has done "none of the hard work" and we're likening his videos, crafted with plenty of research, time and effort, to idiotic pistol stunts to gain popularity.
> 
> Ach well.


 That may be your reading of what I said, but if so then you have read it wrongly. Did I mention the word Hoffman or did I mention 60's pop bands, super. groups. Once again, I make the point, I have absolutely no problem in ex world champion James Hoffman making money from Youtube or any other source. My comments were aimed at those people who seem to think that he does this for love and the financial side is totally unconnected and certainly not the driving force


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> This is totally tenuous even for you .
> 
> You should start a YouTube drama channel mate, be right up your street


 I have no desire for the fame that YT brings to folks Martin .......nothing tenuous in what I say. More a use that some disagree with it and rather the accept what I say as being my point of view....the cancelling starts


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

For what it is worth I feel as if JH has done a great deak for the industry and I enjoy his videos a lot. I learn new things from them regularly too.

Nobody bar the odd few industry folks really knew who he was before he started on YT. The quality and watchability of his videos have made them rise to the top.

Clearly he is getting a decent figure through Patreon now but that is what happens when you do something that scales to world wide appeal. Given how well researched and produced his videos are he is obviously putting in some serious time and money to make them which is more than can be said for some channels!

I would not like to speculate on his initial motivation to start the channel but given nobody knew who he was I do not personally see how it can be about massaging his ego.

I for one am grateful he is bringing quality coffee to a wider audience and I wish him every success.


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## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

dfk41 said:


> My comments were aimed at those people who seem to think that he does this for love and the financial side is totally unconnected and certainly not the driving force


 Who are those people exactly?

Could you point me to how many of the ca. 180 posts in this thread are from people who said that? Cause to me it looks like your comments are aimed at windmills of your own imagination.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Baffo said:


> Who are those people exactly?
> 
> Could you point me to how many of the ca. 180 posts in this thread are from people who said that? Cause to me it looks like your comments are aimed at windmills of your own imagination.


 Sorry Dave I have to agree. I don't think there's anyone saying that. I really rate his content and he's transparently being paid for this. It's taken him along while to get into this position


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## jonr2 (Jan 6, 2021)

I do really enjoy watching his videos and appreciate the effort however i do sometimes wish there was someone of equal standing who had different views. The other stuff i have found - whole latte love etc tend to be more salesy or feature focused rather than outcome focused.

I guess my analogy would be - i enjoy listening to Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville talk about football - they are both knowledgeable but have different perspectives on things which helps me to come to a viewpoint.

is there someone out there i am missing?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have no desire for the fame that YT brings to folks Martin .......nothing tenuous in what I say. More a use that some disagree with it and rather the accept what I say as being my point of view....the cancelling starts


 You have a face for radio as my mother would have said.

From Hoffman to Macca's vocal coach in 16 posts , you got the moves for sure.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

So are we saying, or more importantly one person on here, that people that have YouTube channels assessing the the pro and cons of coffee products are narcissistic?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> So are we saying, or more importantly one person on here, that people that have YouTube channels assessing the the pro and cons of coffee products are narcissistic?


 I am more Parcastic


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Before this topic is closed down I would like to put in my two penneth. None of us know or can second guess what is in another persons mind or his motives for his actions, nobody is completely transparent and we all have a side that we like to show the world and a side we like to hide. James Hoffman has strengths and weaknesses like any mortal . I never knew George Michael was a philanthropist who was very very generous, until he sadly passed away. This he kept hidden even when he was being constantly put down by the press. James H. is very shrewd businessman but he has not achieved his success just by chance or knowing the right people. He's intelligent but not nerdy, knowledgeable but not arrogant, refined but not pompous , has a sense of humour but is not irritating and has old fashioned very good manners and yet is modern and current. In real life he may be completely different and I think he has mentioned in one video about the mistakes he has made and freely admits to being arrogant when he was younger but he has been clever enough to recognise this and present himself in a way that people warm to. In my opinion he has the right balance, just like a good cup of coffee.

(Also one persons you tube channel is another persons touring bus just slightly more practical, more hygienic and can reach a far bigger audience).


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Irisco said:


> Before this topic is closed down I would like to put in my two penneth. None of us know or can second guess what is in another persons mind or his motives for his actions, nobody is completely transparent and we all have a side that we like to show the world and a side we like to hide. James Hoffman has strengths and weaknesses like any mortal . I never knew George Michael was a philanthropist who was very very generous, until he sadly passed away. This he kept hidden even when he was being constantly put down by the press. James H. is very shrewd businessman but he has not achieved his success just by chance or knowing the right people. He's intelligent but not nerdy, knowledgeable but not arrogant, refined but not pompous , has a sense of humour but is not irritating and has old fashioned very good manners and yet is modern and current. In real life he may be completely different and I think he has mentioned in one video about the mistakes he has made and freely admits to being arrogant when he was younger but he has been clever enough to recognise this and present himself in a way that people warm to. In my opinion he has the right balance, just like a good cup of coffee.
> (Also one persons you tube channel is another persons touring bus just slightly more practical, more hygienic and can reach a far bigger audience).


I have to say this is one of the nicest and educated comments I've read.


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

I have no problem with James and actually he does do a fab job of bringing people into the hobby.

What I do have a problem with those who are not so open so called influencers who are paid to promote products because of their perceived influence. Young and old. I have become very sceptical these days on anyone saying this is good that is bad as you don't know who is pulling the strings

The government paying these so called influencers over the pandemic opened my eyes In this case a force for good but quite often a force for bad

At least James is open and not clandestine


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

I really enjoy James. He seems as if he is trying to sell more of a community than push products in his videos which is something that I really appreciate. He also has no qualms in critiquing products (see his video about the ghost-burred EK43 rip-off), irrespective of where they have come from.

Hell, he even only gave the Niche a 6/10! Granted this was in comparison to other top-end grinders but still, he was open and honest and really did get into the detail.

I also thoroughly enjoy the fact that he offered free grinders (yes this was in partnership with a company, I forget who) to those who would need it in the middle of a pandemic. You can't tell me that he didn't have to front any of his Patreon money for that.

Irrespective of the above, he just seems like a nice dude. Maybe that's his online persona coming through and how he wants us to perceive him. I always have the time of day for any of his well-informed, factual videos.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

"I'm looking' she say's, as she throws the Monopoly and Othello in the trash


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

haventadog said:


> "I'm looking' she say's, as she throws the Monopoly and Othello in the trash


 Wait, I. took a break to make a cup of tea - where is the link. That was my Christmas chopping in the making


----------



## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Interesting conversation.

First thing I'll say is that JH's videos are really aesthetic, which I think is a help. Great camerawork, great audio, lovely to watch. As others have said, he really draws in the viewers and has got a lot of people interested in speciality coffee, which is great.

Content wise I'm a little torn. Until recently I was a Patreon supporter. I thought I'd make use of the square mile and tenshundredsthousands.com discount. I didn't.

I also thought that if I enjoyed someone's content then I should chip in. I love the idea of unbiased reviews, buying equipment and reviewing it, then essentially raffling it off. It felt like there was no reason to be polite about a company if you didn't like what they offered, but he could also be polite about a product without me wondering if he's getting a kickback from the company.

My issue is this has now gone the other way. In his unbiased reviews he now wants to be positive about all the smaller companies, which I think is great but doesn't give me that totally impartial view and realistic side I'm looking for.

I completely get the issue from some of his previous videos. He gave some wrong information on a keep cup and they complained. He took the video down, donated all the proceeds to charity (if I remember correctly) and released a video explaining his mistake and how he was intending not to bash the small guys going forward. I have a lot of time for that honesty, other "influencers" (god, I hate them) wouldn't have reacted as amicably.

I'm wondering if JH didn't see his channel getting so big at first. His patreon before was used for buying bottles of drink that had coffee in them from a far off country. He ended up with the budget to spend thousands on grinders, and to give five grinders and 10 kgs (I think) of coffee away with every video. It's almost like he's now restricted with what he can say purely because his reach is too wide and he can have too big an impact on companies below a certain size.

I'll still watch his videos, and I'm still a fan. And I'd still love to grab a pint with James and just talk about random stuff (coffee and non coffee). But I'm not sure I find his reviews impartial enough anymore. But I do really understand his dilemma.

Final point, do I think he's just in it for the money? Not really, but I bet he's not complaining! He's doing something I can tell he enjoys and he's getting paid a butt load of money for it. If anything, I'm jealous.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

haventadog said:


> Wait, I. took a break to make a cup of tea - where is the link. That was my Christmas chopping in the making


 Theres this one on Amazon I think it would definitely chop things ap and mix them well. Very handy with the extra work at Christmas, sure you might prefer using this.

https://tinyurl.com/5cfo7vea


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Theres this one on Amazon I think it would definitely chop things ap and mix them well. Very handy with the extra work at Christmas, sure you might prefer using this.
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/5cfo7vea
> 
> View attachment 53313


 I think @haventadog is more than capable of using a knife! Fixing a coffee machine on the other hand is a bit more questionable.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Theres this one on Amazon I think it would definitely chop things ap and mix them well. Very handy with the extra work at Christmas, sure you might prefer using this.
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/5cfo7vea
> 
> View attachment 53313


 Very funny, damn that dyslexia. 😂

It look's good. Help me with my wifey duties.

You are quicker than Amazon AI, are you on commission?


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

Cooffe said:


> I think @haventadog is more than capable of using a knife! Fixing a coffee machine on the other hand is a bit more questionable.


 I know better than to play with a mans thing.😇


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

haventadog said:


> I know better than to play with a mans thing.😇


 You have been watching too much Harry Enfield 🤣


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> You have been watching too much Harry Enfield 🤣


 Harry Enfield?

30 years ago we were lucky to have electricity. In them day's I was milking a goat just to survive.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

haventadog said:


> Harry Enfield?
> 
> 30 years ago we were lucky to have electricity. In them day's I was milking a goat just to survive.


 He was a comedian much favoured by the BBC in days gone by.



haventadog said:


> I know better than to play with a mans thing.😇


 Your comment reminded me of this (presumably politically incorrect) video about what used to thought of as mans things, or boys toys. I suspect it would never be shown by the BBC again. Unless of course you were referring to something other than a coffee machine.


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> I suspect it would never be shown by the BBC again.


 I believe it to have been a satire on chauvinistic attitudes, and thus still operable.

He's still often on the BBC, although his former sidekick Whitehouse may have usurped him.

I was discussing the 1970s series "Sykes" the other day.
There's no way that's being shown again.
Not because of the casual racism, but because it was ****.


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

haventadog said:


> i think this is good satire. The sadness is that the concept is too often wasted.
> 
> You could make one for the coffee forum, just for levers?


 A sketch about people who think that even levers are an effete modern corruption, at odds with Italian coffee heritage?

"The term 'barista' actually refers to the bar which was used to smash up coffee beans in a bucket. The 'barista ' would add water to the bucket, and customers would then stick their heads in to chew mouthfuls of grind and water. When Gaggia invented his machine, Count Negroni said "This is the end of civilization" ( from within his bucket) "


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

antinwales said:


> A sketch about people who think that even levers are an effete modern corruption, at odds with Italian coffee heritage?
> 
> "The term 'barista' actually refers to the bar which was used to smash up coffee beans in a bucket. The 'barista ' would add water to the bucket, and customers would then stick their heads in to chew mouthfuls of grind and water. When Gaggia invented his machine, Count Negroni said "This is the end of civilization" ( from within his bucket) "


 This is very interesting, I know there were some haters when Achille Gaggia invented the concept of espresso under pressure, but not why.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I do watch some of his videos at times but can't say that I find them helpful. I sometimes find they are flawed as well. And at times rather glib and lack any depth really.

However good luck to him. The video gear he uses is expensive and it needs to be worth buying it. His give aways could be good as well but people need to be realistic about motives. Perhaps this page will explain why

https://www.patreon.com/jameshoffmann

Give me that income and I will cheerfully review just about any piece of coffee gear on the planet and give it away. One month might be a bit tough when it's a machine as it can take some time to get to grips with them and there are limits on just how much coffee I can drink.

I understand there is a book (s?) as well.

It's an interesting business and as I said good luck to him.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> I understand there is a book (s?) as well.
> 
> It's an interesting business and as I said good luck to him.


 @ajohn I have his book, JH World Atlas of Coffee. It's a good read.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I have his book, JH World Atlas of Coffee. It's a good read


 LOL I bet it was expensive.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> LOL I bet it was expensive.


 £20, but I have a great deal of interest in coffee as a hobby and I have followed James progress closely over the years, from his very early days on the TMC forum when he worked for La Spaziale, to now. I always think it's great when people are enthusiastic about coffee. As I said earlier, I subscribe to his channel and enjoy the entertainment it offers.

James views and opinions have changed over the years as have my own...this is what makes the hobby so fascinating. Always new things to learn.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

~£15 on Amazon and 1500 odd copies sold feeback so wrong on cost for what won't sell huge numbers as some books do.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

antinwales said:


> A sketch about people who think that even levers are an effete modern corruption, at odds with Italian coffee heritage?
> 
> "The term 'barista' actually refers to the bar which was used to smash up coffee beans in a bucket. The 'barista ' would add water to the bucket, and customers would then stick their heads in to chew mouthfuls of grind and water. When Gaggia invented his machine, Count Negroni said "This is the end of civilization" ( from within his bucket) "


 That's uncanny. Pretty much how I had to make my coffee the other day.

Until my husband came home and pounded. the beans with his club

Spoooooky


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> ~£15 on Amazon and 1500 odd copies sold feeback so wrong on cost for what won't sell huge numbers as some books do.


 Do you realise what you've done John...

I paid £20 dammit... 😉


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

haventadog said:


> Until my husband came home and pounded. the beans with his club
> 
> Spoooooky


 So just a 7g shot then?


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Do you realise what you've done John...


 Yes but I didn't post a link 😆 but could have done as I have done many times as it's to items I am not selling. When I first joined they might have been deleted for pretty obvious reasons - I might have been.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Do you realise what you've done John...
> 
> I paid £20 dammit... 😉


 Silly.

You should buy your books here and help save the planet https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/World-Atlas-of-Coffee-9781845337872?shipto=GB&curcode=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4L2BBhCvARIsAO0SBdaSKaep7DhXuwTSxzfZ3PfRnSsOpibSX22DEJPJwXJUqZ8Df-XpKjkaAnLLEALw_wcB


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> So just a 7g shot then?


 Yes, less is always more.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@haventadog Your making me feel even worse now...but I did want a new one and it was years ago. Like I say I've followed his career for years, right from the time when he looked like the lead singer from Babyshambles 😁 to the present day.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm sure I joked about it once with him.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> @haventadog Your making me feel even worse now...but I did want a new one and it was years ago. Like I say I've followed his career for years, right from the time when he looked like the lead singer from Babyshambles 😁 to the present day.


 Did he have elocution lessons as well? If I did similar I would need to - from Brum. Too deep a voice as well.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> @haventadog Your making me feel even worse now...but I did want a new one and it was years ago. Like I say I've followed his career for years, right from the time when he looked like the lead singer from Babyshambles 😁 to the present day.


 It's never too late to repent.

I am glad to have educated you. 👍🏻


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Did he have elocution lessons as well? If I did similar I would need to - from Brum. Too deep a voice as well.


 Dunno, I like accents, I think they add interest...


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I have to say I admire anyone who is able to be honest about what they earn, and where it comes from (be that patreon, advertisers, or payroll for a business) my kids really want to be on YouTube (currently sad that Ryan, Aliyah and DGR Dave all have more followers than we do with our wobbly unlisted videos) it's the people who try and pretend they are unbiased but are secretly being paid/remunerated/gifted stuff that bothers me. It then becomes not much better than all those people pushing weird multi level marketing scams. Honesty about being paid actually makes me more likely to trust someone than less. Maybe that's because I'm younger and female so more likely to see through scammy bluster& old boys networks than some. I'm sure James Hoffman is part of the coffee old boys club, and has served his time and gained his experience- which has a value to me, but only if I know where his bias is.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I'm sure I joked about it once with him.
> 
> 
> View attachment 53317
> I


 Just goes to show that it's not addiction that is the problem, just what you are addicted to.


----------



## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

haventadog said:


> Silly.
> 
> You should buy your books here and help save the planet https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/World-Atlas-of-Coffee-9781845337872?shipto=GB&curcode=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4L2BBhCvARIsAO0SBdaSKaep7DhXuwTSxzfZ3PfRnSsOpibSX22DEJPJwXJUqZ8Df-XpKjkaAnLLEALw_wcB


 or here https://uae.kinokuniya.com/bw/9781784724290


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Dunno, I like accents, I think they add interest...


 I'd need plastic surgery as well. Maybe get my teeth fixed. High outgoings before getting any income.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

haventadog said:


> Just goes to show that it's not addiction that is the problem, just what you are addicted to.


 Never, a truer word spoken....Pete Doherty for sure has had significant problems, lets hope he is able to get past them. The body cannot take that sort of abuse as it gets older.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Never, a truer word spoken....Pete Doherty for sure has had significant problems, lets hope he is able to get past them. The body cannot take that sort of abuse as it gets older.


 I can't take abuse full stop.

And I getting to the age in which I can see the advantages of taking speed 😂


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Is it a full moon or something, seems to be a lack of humour in some of these posts.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

There's quite a lot of activity......am I on the right forum?


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Ah, I can see what you're trying to do here....but this was over 15 years ago, and it was purely a comparison in looks not in habits or lifestyle.





ajohn said:


> I'd need plastic surgery as well. Maybe get my teeth fixed. High outgoings before getting any income.


 You'd need his mesmerising well groomed hair too.....that's tens of thousands alone


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> @ajohn I have his book, JH World Atlas of Coffee. It's a good read.


 A lot of James Hoffman supporters on here, did anyone else purchase his book...?

Don't be shy, photos if you got em ????


----------



## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> A lot of James Hoffman supporters on here, did anyone else purchase his book...?
> Don't be shy, photos if you got em


To be honest I've just checked Amazon and it's 36,68€ in Spain, a bit too expensive for me . I will keep looking for a cheaper option.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> A lot of James Hoffman supporters on here, did anyone else purchase his book...?
> Don't be shy, photos if you got em


If you've finished with it can I borrow it?


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> A lot of James Hoffman supporters on here, did anyone else purchase his book...?
> 
> Don't be shy, photos if you got em 😉


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

haventadog said:


> Silly.
> 
> You should buy your books here and help save the planet https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/World-Atlas-of-Coffee-9781845337872?shipto=GB&curcode=GBP&gclid=Cj0KCQiA4L2BBhCvARIsAO0SBdaSKaep7DhXuwTSxzfZ3PfRnSsOpibSX22DEJPJwXJUqZ8Df-XpKjkaAnLLEALw_wcB


 But that's used - wonder by whom?


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> But that's used - wonder by whom?


 Was it you?

It's a social venture - for the better good of all.

If it was, well done you👏


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Lovely book, it's taught me nearly as much as @MWJB has 😁

Really helped me to identify the lsol beans over the years, I even got it right one time 🤣


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@J_Fo Looks like I got an extra valuable 1st edition then 😁 One day.....


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> @J_Fo Looks like I got an extra valuable 1st edition then 😁 One day.....


 You mean he didn't sign it for you. Shame on him.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> You mean he didn't sign it for you. Shame on him.


 If I ever meet him and I have the book, I will ask him to. I think he was at Host 2019.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

urbanbumpkin said:


> You'd need his mesmerising well groomed hair too.....that's tens of thousands alone


 No some balding indicates testosterone and brains so no problem there.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

The Systemic Kid said:


> But that's used - wonder by whom?


 Shortly to be by me... If it was yours I'd love to know!


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Missy said:


> Shortly to be by me... If it was yours I'd love to know!


 Embarrassed to say, mine was new and, ahem, autographed.


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Is it a full moon or something, seems to be a lack of humour in some of these posts.


 I think I'm pretty funny.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

haventadog said:


> I think I'm pretty funny.


 I don't


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> A lot of James Hoffman supporters on here, did anyone else purchase his book...?
> 
> Don't be shy, photos if you got em 😉


 Ive got it, somewhere, ive bought it as a present for two people , who then got into good coffee.

I like Hoffman, he is a old school nerd into film photography too


----------



## haventadog (Nov 4, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I don't


 This literally confirms my point.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

🤣😂🤣


----------



## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Bought mine for a tenner from the book "suppository " as my husband likes to call it. He's very old school humour!


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

ajohn said:


> No some balding indicates testosterone and brains so no problem there.


If that's the case then I think we're veritable geniuses


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> If that's the case then I think we're veritable geniuses


 Me too


----------



## antinwales (Jan 16, 2021)

haventadog said:


> I'm surprised more people haven't commented on his hair, which is literally his crowning glory.
> 
> (According to my family) My new hobbies are always curated by a new YouTube guru, and Hoffman is as good as any (and I've followed a few).
> 
> ...


----------



## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Just saw on Hoffman's channel the latest guest slot entitled; How a new Syrian espresso culture grew in Turkey.

I really found this film interesting and eye opening and on a human level, it reminded me of how lucky I am to have the ability to pontificate over what coffee machine, grinder or bean to buy this week. It was a revelation to see how the espresso culture has morphed into a go to quick drink in the heavily refugee populated areas of Turkey. If you have a moment, check it out. It's been up 1 day and already had 35K views. 
A more trivial unsubstantiated takeaway from the 11 or so minute film was that Turkey has the second most Starbucks shops amongst European countries - go figure!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Marocchino said:


> Just saw on Hoffman's channel the latest guest slot entitled; How a new Syrian espresso culture grew in Turkey.


 Not seen that one yet, shall watch it tonight....


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Turkish style coffee is for tourists. Being sensible they mostly drink black tea. Pretty good stuff too.


----------



## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

ajohn said:


> Turkish style coffee is for tourists. Being sensible they mostly drink black tea. Pretty good stuff too.


 The video isn't really about Turkish coffee - though Turkey and Syria have hundreds of years where coffee has become entwined into their culture. 
I do remember enjoying their tea or Çay, though it must be getting on for forty years when I last drank it. A first for me seeing the tea poured from a height into a small glass drinking cup with such pin point accuracy.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Marocchino said:


> I do remember enjoying their tea or Cat, though it must be getting on for forty years when I last drank it. A first for me seeing the tea poured from a height into a small glass drinking cup with such pin point accuracy.


 I've drunk plenty of it on 3 trips there. The guide on one was aiming to visit the UK and was extremely worried about his tea. He'd tried Twining's Breakfast  so not surprising really


----------



## RenatoA (May 10, 2021)

Gilly said:


> James Hoffman; the David Attenborough of Coffee.
> 
> Discuss.?


 The ombudsman of coffee 😉

https://www.smallcapnews.co.uk/british-naturalist-atenborough-will-take-over-the-position-of-ombudsman-for-cop26-prensa-latina/


----------



## ZeljkoBG (May 7, 2021)

JAMES HOFFMAN

It is so irritating and ugly that when I see it I can not drink espresso.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ZeljkoBG said:


> JAMES HOFFMAN
> 
> It is so irritating and ugly that when I see it I can not drink espresso.


----------



## BunniesAreEvil (Jun 14, 2021)

The Systemic Kid said:


> It's entertaining theatre with a psuedo scientific coating.


 Exactly.

I've watched a few of his videos, and several times I've completely lost it. When he got out his spoon collection, I was in hysterics. I have no idea what the man is really like, I'll leave that to his friends and acquaintances to say. The production values are very high (lighting, camera work) and he is very good at expressing himself with a very smooth and eloquent style. By all accounts he is very knowledgeable and generally respected.

To call him narcissistic as some have is unfair in my view. I've worked for a narcissist, and true narcissists are seriously unpleasant people, and quite hard to see through.

His style is not really to my taste though, I find him too upper middle class trendy London. (Perhaps that says more about me.) Anyone else think he's really an 18 year old made up to look 50 years old? No? That's just me then.

At the end of the day this is just one person's opinion, anyone with any sense seeks a range of opinions.

As per the earlier quote, his videos are theatre. To earn money. Nowt wrong with that.


----------



## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

BunniesAreEvil said:


> I find him too upper middle class trendy London.


 I always smile when I read this, makes me think of that old Hovis advert music and that everyone in the north trudges home on cobbled streets after a hard day's work in the coal mine.

I'm an 'trendy Londoner' and Hoffman is one of us for sure! We don't protect our own though, it's all me, me, me down here so have at him 😁

Just kidding! On topic, I think he's great, he's done a lot to popularise coffee. I have mates who have come across him independent of me and have enjoyed his videos and got more coffee stuff as a result. He makes things easy and accessible in a fun and high quality way with just the right amount of technicality and 'science'. He's an expert but not all experts know how to communicate.


----------



## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

You cheeky cow


----------



## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

> 3 hours ago, Denis S said:
> 
> You cheeky cow


 There's people on here slagging him off, in this thread and others so this isn't true is it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I think the Hoff is a great presenter. Videos are well produced, and he is charismatic and charming. However, for me at least, it lacks depth. Like, take the Solo review... Meh. There was nothing new there. Take the machines show down... Lelit is not good because the portafilter doesn't have spouts pointing out, and the feet of the machine is not tall to his liking. All very subjective, nothing of importance or with substance. After all, doing those is part of his business and way to promote himself. (PS: I have nothing against that!)

For someone who hasn't got a clue, or knows very little, his videos are great, and informative to an extent. For someone who is a bit more into this hobby, who frequents forums etc, maybe not quite so. To me the content is too shallow. There's hardly anything new or anything relevant I ever took away from those.


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

If you can't get enough of the man's voice&#8230;.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Coffee/comments/o6xn83/world_atlas_of_coffee_audiobook_out_today/?utm_source=share%26utm_medium=ios_app%26utm_name=iossmf


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I watched the water one last night...I was surprised he didn't use RO water, Tap water and one of the popular bottled waters as a control....even possibly RO with Bicarb.

Instead the comparison was with 4 "perfect water" products...with no real reference to how it would have been without them, or with one of the popular bottled waters?


----------



## BunniesAreEvil (Jun 14, 2021)

CocoLoco said:


> I always smile when I read this, makes me think of that old Hovis advert music and that everyone in the north trudges home on cobbled streets after a hard day's work in the coal mine.
> 
> I'm an 'trendy Londoner' and Hoffman is one of us for sure! We don't protect our own though, it's all me, me, me down here so have at him


 I'm even further south, though I do a rather good Wallace and Gromit accent, thanks to parents from that area. And if you listened to me dad, you'd be convinced they all wore clogs, ate bread and dripping, and had outside lavs. Cue the Northerners sketch &#8230; As an aside, the Hovis advert was filmed &#8230;. in Dorset.

I lived in London for countless years.


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## winterlight (Feb 27, 2016)

I'm a big fan of Hoffman, always happy to see a new video pop up from him. I started getting more into coffee last year when I started watching his videos during lockdown. I don't necessarily watch every single one, but on the whole they're fun, well produced and he makes for an engaging host. But it's all subjective. I mean, he can't stand coldbrew, but I love it...


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## whinmoor85 (Jul 4, 2013)

I like Hoffman's videos but I do find some of the criticism a bit tedious - 'oh he's only doing it for the money', 'he forgot X, Y and Z in the ultimate v60 tutorial' 🤫

I think his main problem is that he probably has an outsized influence on speciality coffee due to the massive size of his online audience.

Not sure how many people have seen this but he did a podcast with the founder of Elixir Specialty Coffee. He reviewed their product (now taken down) and gave it a lukewarm rating and she spends two hours telling him off for ruining the company.






I don't know how personally responsible he is for that but the dynamic is worth noticing.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

> 56 minutes ago, whinmoor85 said:
> 
> I like Hoffman's videos but I do find some of the criticism a bit tedious - 'oh he's only doing it for the money', 'he forgot X, Y and Z in the ultimate v60 tutorial' 🤫
> 
> ...


 I think he handled that rather well. Matt Hancock had better be taking notes, his turn next. Hell hath no fury and all that!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Just saw this video from him, thought I'd share (apologies if this has been shared already) - but it's a reasonable and sensible explanation why cappuccino is *prohibited* after 11am. 😉


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

> 21 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> Just saw this video from him, thought I'd share (apologies if this has been shared already) - but it's a reasonable and sensible explanation why cappuccino is *prohibited* after 11am. 😉


 So that's why I never fart when I'm in Italy


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