# a right Royal do



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have had the chance to spend a little time in the company of a Mazzer Royal. Being a confirmed Mazzer hater for many years, I can say with 100% accuracy, that the Royal is a breed apart. No-one can question its pedigree as there are tens of thousands of them out there. Yes, a bit ugly but so what? Yes they are bombproof. Yes a decent one is £200 more than an SJ......hang on........£200 more than an sj, thats madness....but true. 83 mm flat burrs, if you are happy running a doser, a couple small mods makes it work much better. If you want to convert over to doserless, it is quite easy. Unlike the SJ and Major, the 900 watt motor just gently chugs away producing a clump free pile. The Mythos is better of course but it still ain't bad.

All it takes is a fudge funnel, a dremel and a new motor plate and it is as simple as that. If you want a grinder that will never need upgrading this is your boy. Yes, it is big but throw away the hopper, take the part off that sits over the neck, stick your borsicillate tube in and away you go. Either put 100 gms and a tamper on top, or if you single dose, make the grind more fine and dose away.

Do not be tempted to buy a high mileage ex Costa model. Do not buy a knackered one with loads of scratches on because if you wait, either flabby or our own CC will offering for sale. Be the best £400 to £500 you will spend (on a grinder). The retention is not massive (no I have not measured it) but in the mornings, I reckon it takes about 4 gms to get to the fresh stuff.

So, if in doubt, buy a Royal!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

taste?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh, and I seem to have one for sale in the "For Sale" section for £400 right now... new burrs, Mazzer Mini mini hopper included (and a regular hopper etc.)

They are cracking pieces of kit - I love my Royal and I'm only selling this one because I've got another..... and if it doesn't sell then I'm keeping it for brew. ;-)

Quite big (not so bad with mini hopper, or tube, or micro hopper), very heavy .... but great!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> taste?


am waiting for beans I am familiar with to compare as the ones I have now are new to me. bound to be a difference just based on burr size to th Mythos


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

If you find a nice one and you feel like getting a new set of Ti Burrs...... Hit me up. I have a spare set


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

grumpydaddy said:


> If you find a nice one and you feel like getting a new set of Ti Burrs...... Hit me up. I have a spare set


@teejay might be interested in those


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Can we please keep sales pitches to the Wanted and For Sale sections?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

@dfk41 Do I take it then that you have a Mythos?

Given that it runs at 45 degrees and has minimal retention, do you think you could achieve something close by running the Royal in a similar fashion?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

grumpydaddy said:


> Given that it runs at 45 degrees and has minimal retention, do you think you could achieve something close by running the Royal in a similar fashion?


This is something of a hot topic. But doesn't the Mythos also have some kind of auger system to pull the beans into the burrs to prevent popcorning?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

risky said:


> This is something of a hot topic. But doesn't the Mythos also have some kind of auger system to pull the beans into the burrs to prevent popcorning?


shouldn't be too hard to knock an auger up though


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Does anyone have an exploded drawing of a mythos or a guide which shows how the beans enter the burr 'chamber'?

From this photo it appears that the upper burr carrier creates a vertical chute above the burrs.



 

This photo shows the beans in what looks like your standard gravity feed with a 'gate' to cut off the bean supply, but is there an auger in the middle of those beans somewhere? What is the cable for that runs to the burr carrier?

http://www.victoriaarduino.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/mythos-one.png


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

risky said:


> Does anyone have an exploded drawing of a mythos or a guide which shows how the beans enter the burr 'chamber'?
> 
> From this photo it appears that the upper burr carrier creates a vertical chute above the burrs.
> 
> ...


That's the power for the heating element. There is an augur but it's not a big auger of death like on the ek

View attachment 18474


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Comes down from the hopper at 90 degrees then enters burr chamber with auger in at 45 degrees, auger just assisting with feeding the beans in to the burrs set at 45 degrees ( auger driven by bottom burrs carrier, 17mm spanner fits nicely on if you ever need to change burrs etc by turning the auger not the screws). 65e and 75e have an identical auger just vertical, probably other NS/ eureka / VA products too.

Hope of help

John


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Loved my old royal, I sometimes miss it


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think the secret of the Mythos, is that with the burrs being set at an angle, gravity takes care of the rest meaning that the only place for the coffee to go is down the exit chute, taking care of grind quality and delivery into the pf. The exit chute is the only place for the grinds to go, and is located immediately above the pf holder

  

The Mythos is standing on a knock box


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

How can you recommend a grinder when you don't know how it performs in the cup?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> How can you recommend a grinder when you don't know how it performs in the cup?


easy, the shots I have pulled have been tasty and I have enjoyed. If it can do that without me putting it up against the other grinders on a bean I know....and....do not forget, I stated that the pedigree of a Royal does not need to be questioned because there are so many out there. Just imagine using your major but it being a lot better!

As time allows and beans mature, I will test the mythos against the Royal with the same coffee compass beans, if anyone is interested. I remember putting the Mythos up against both the K10 and E10 and on taste it got fullered, so I would expect the same......from a grinder which costs a canny bit less....big burros rule!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> the shots I have pulled have been tasty and I have enjoyed.


OK



dfk41 said:


> I stated that the pedigree of a Royal does not need to be questioned because there are so many out there.


Means nothing



dfk41 said:


> Just imagine using your major but it being a lot better!


So you know it's better than another grinder you've never tried? I've owned a Royal btw.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So does the bottom bit of the fixed burr in the Mythos wear faster than the rest of the burr? Or is it all spinning fast enough for it not to matter...?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> OK
> 
> Means nothing
> 
> So you know it's better than another grinder you've never tried? I've owned a Royal btw.


Jeebsy, I am very impressed by the Royal. Perhaps there are holes in what I am saying from your perspective. I am not selling one and building it up. I am simply saying that having had a LOT of grinders, even though I have not done any side by sides, I would expect it to do well. Slow spin high torque motor. It just pushes a non clump grind out. The dosing arrangement could be better. The 83 mm burrs do not disappoint so far. If I do a side by side with the Mythos, and the Mythos is better, then that is what I will say believe it or not.

But, I am suggesting to people looking to spend sub ££500, that if they can fit them in, they could do a lot worse than the Royal. As another observation, as the forum membership has expanded rapidly, it seems to have brought with it a level of wealth, where people no longer have to go the MC2, Classic route but buy decent kit early in the career. The knock on of this is a general slump in second hand prices on most equipment, although not all. So, if you have a budget and want to see what your money can buy, consider the unfashionable Royal....and when I have done my taste tests with help, over Xmas, I shall tell all once again!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

There are plenty of holes in what you're saying but for 400ish quid you won't get a grinder that delivers more in the cup


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> easy, the shots I have pulled have been tasty and I have enjoyed. If it can do that without me putting it up against the other grinders on a bean I know....and....do not forget, I stated that the pedigree of a Royal does not need to be questioned because there are so many out there. Just imagine using your major but it being a lot better!
> 
> As time allows and beans mature, I will test the mythos against the Royal with the same coffee compass beans, if anyone is interested. I remember putting the Mythos up against both the K10 and E10 and on taste it got fullered, so I would expect the same......from a grinder which costs a canny bit less....*big burros rule*!


Didn't know that you were a donkey fancier dfk.

By the way, if you are going to take photos of your coffee area in that state you should offer a warning to those of us with a slight OCD condition. I have just had to go and clean some stuff to make me feel better.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Hrm it's not much of an auger is it. I'd be surprised if it really does much, compared to an EK one at least.

Out of interest, is it possible to single dose a Mythos? I have no interest in doing so, just wondering how well it works (or doesn't)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The dregs of the beans sit on the wee ledge below the auger. It does most of the dose quickly but it takes 18 secs+ until it munches the last of the dose.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> There are plenty of holes in what you're saying but for 400ish quid you won't get a grinder that delivers more in the cup


Except that some of us still think that the large conicals deliver more in the cup ... ( ducks ...)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

GlennV said:


> Except that some of us still think that the large conicals deliver more in the cup ...


AKA the flat earthers, sub 20%ers etc


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

GlennV said:


> Except that some of us still think that the large conicals deliver more in the cup ... ( ducks ...)


If only everyone's tastebuds were the same we could be done with the 'which is the best' debate!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

NickdeBug said:


> Didn't know that you were a donkey fancier dfk.
> 
> By the way, if you are going to take photos of your coffee area in that state you should offer a warning to those of us with a slight OCD condition. I have just had to go and clean some stuff to make me feel better.


You OCD boys make me laugh! Do you not realise the problem lies in your own mind,not in the odd bit of coffee debris in my photos!


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

Dylan said:


> If only everyone's tastebuds were the same we could be done with the 'which is the best' debate!


I actually think the taste differences between the top grinders are often exaggerated (leaving aside the EK34, R120 and their ilk, which I have no experience of). For the last couple of weeks I've been running the Anfim SC (hopper fed) against the large conical (single dosed) on the same beans and the differences in cup when properly dialled in are pretty subtle (and, as it happens, both are giving around 20% extraction in VST units







).


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Wonder what the EY would be if you didn't single dose the conical.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

GlennV said:


> I actually think the taste differences between the top grinders are often exaggerated (leaving aside the EK34, R120 and their ilk, which I have no experience of). For the last couple of weeks I've been running the Anfim SC (hopper fed) against the large conical (single dosed) on the same beans and the differences in cup when properly dialled in are pretty subtle (and, as it happens, both are giving around 20% extraction in VST units
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Using a filter







@risky - its where the taste and extraction become imbalanced , just coz it is 20% on a grinder , doesn't mean it wil be tasty .....


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

risky said:


> Wonder what the EY would be if you didn't single dose the conical.


No difference (tried that one before, when I had two MCs side by side)


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

GlennV said:


> No difference (tried that one before, when I had two MCs side by side)


That's quite surprising as I figured the difference in the grind profile would affect the EY?

@dsc did anything ever come of your research on single dosing ?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

GlennV said:


> I actually think the taste differences between the top grinders are often exaggerated (leaving aside the EK34, R120 and their ilk, which I have no experience of). For the last couple of weeks I've been running the Anfim SC (hopper fed) against the large conical (single dosed) on the same beans and the differences in cup when properly dialled in are pretty subtle (and, as it happens, both are giving around 20% extraction in VST units
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You say this, but then topic will pop up when someone has changed to a conical saying it has transformed their coffee... (or vice versa)

It is always difficult to say if someone just bought a grinder that distributed well, and what they are tasting is a coffee that hasn't channeled, or something along those lines... but it impossible to say wether your tastes, in a side by side comparison [flat v conic], simply didnt react in the same way as someone else's.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Using a filter
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep, using a filter. Dialled in for tasty and measured for interest ...


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## clickhappy (Feb 1, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> Loved my old royal, I sometimes miss it


It's still going strong, thinking of treating it to one of those glass tubes so I can keep uniform weight on the burrs. I'm still single dosing using the triple basket that you gave me to stop popcorning.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

when you convert the Royal over from dosered to doserless, their is a gap in the motor housing as the new funnel is smaller. Does anyone know what and where to get the relevant motor plate from? I have seen themas special orders US sites but not here


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> when you convert the Royal overarm dowered to doserless, their is a gap in the motor housing as the new funnel is smaller. Does anyone know what and where to get the relevant motor plate from? I have seen themas special orders US sites but not here


Wholesalers like LF and Jag but that part is usually special order


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> when you convert the Royal overarm dowered to doserless, their is a gap in the motor housing as the new funnel is smaller. Does anyone know what and where to get the relevant motor plate from? I have seen themas special orders US sites but not here


Parts suppliers like lfspares, but you need to be VAT registered.

As ever, espressoparts shipping is a big PITA, as they only charge $30 for the part.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> Parts suppliers like lfspares, but you need to be VAT registered.


No you don't


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> No you don't


... Fair enough, did you not used to have to supply them a VAT number to use them?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

clickhappy said:


> It's still going strong, thinking of treating it to one of those glass tubes so I can keep uniform weight on the burrs. I'm still single dosing using the triple basket that you gave me to stop popcorning.


Glad to hear it!! Not that there's any reason why that tank wouldn't keep on going!!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> ... Fair enough, did you not used to have to supply them a VAT number to use them?


Nah, you can use them without being vat registered. If you give them a number then they take the vat off so it saves 20% if you are though.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Saves 22% with LF


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Nah, you can use them without being vat registered. If you give them a number then they take the vat off so it saves 20% if you are though.


Ahh, thats good to know, cheers.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You may need to bend the truth slightly about your line of business to get an account though.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Turns out my next job is working on a TV program about repairing espresso machines, what would ya know!


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> You OCD boys make me laugh! Do you not realise the problem lies in your own mind,not in the odd bit of coffee debris in my photos!


You have it all wrong, my mind is actually extremely cluttered, and on occasion positively filthy. My work areas tend to be quite tidy though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

NickdeBug said:


> You have it all wrong, my mind is actually extremely cluttered, and on occasion positively filthy. My work areas tend to be quite tidy though.


Nick, we are polar opposites!


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

risky said:


> That's quite surprising as I figured the difference in the grind profile would affect the EY?
> 
> @dsc did anything ever come of your research on single dosing ?


Haven't refracted single doses vs hopper fed so no idea there, all I know is currently the most I can get out of a conic is around 19%, probably mostly because of my shite barista skills. I'm currently away from home and using a funny little Gaggia MDF with a Classic and easily pulling shots which are tastier than the conic. A bit strange if you ask me... but enough to contemplate switching over to flats on the ZR, just need a lower ratio on the gearbox so I can get around 500RPM on the burrset.

T.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dsc said:


> Haven't refracted single doses vs hopper fed so no idea there, all I know is currently the most I can get out of a conic is around 19%, probably mostly because of my shite barista skills. I'm currently away from home and using a funny little Gaggia MDF with a Classic and easily pulling shots which are tastier than the conic. A bit strange if you ask me... but enough to contemplate switching over to flats on the ZR, just need a lower ratio on the gearbox so I can get around 500RPM on the burrset.
> 
> T.


Well that seems to tally with what Perger found on the Robur. Anything past 19% EY was an achievement. With 20% being incredibly unusual.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Anyway back to the Royal, @dfk are you single dosing?

My biggest gripe is the way the grounds get stuck in the chute.

I think if I were to remove the doser I would try and get the deli bag attachment rather than the funnel (just think it looks nicer) but it wouldn't solve the issue of grinds in the chute.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> Anyway back to the Royal, @dfk are you single dosing?
> 
> My biggest gripe is the way the grounds get stuck in the chute.
> 
> I think if I were to remove the doser I would try and get the deli bag attachment rather than the funnel (just think it looks nicer) but it wouldn't solve the issue of grinds in the chute.


Nope, not tried that yet. Just running the glass tube as a hopper which takes around 100 gms. Quite happy with that at the moment! Not a big single dosing fan as I forget the various settings on the grinder when doing that!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

I suppose whether single dosing or not, retention in the chute is an issue (although not single dosing you can purge out the few grams that are in there)


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

risky said:


> Well that seems to tally with what Perger found on the Robur. Anything past 19% EY was an achievement. With 20% being incredibly unusual.


The only way I got past 20% was by regrinding a coarser grind ie. Grind at 3.00mm burr gap, then regrind this at 1.00mm. EY was higher but taste wasn't impressive anyway.

As for removing the doser, be careful as static might be wild then and all the super fines will cling to the body of the grinder which can result is some pretty bad extractions.

T.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

risky said:


> Well that seems to tally with what Perger found on the Robur. Anything past 19% EY was an achievement. With 20% being incredibly unusual.


I measured shots from both grinders this morning (VST Lab II/filtered)

Anfim (75mm flat) 18.0g-> 36.0g 9.80%,

MC (68mm conical) 18.0g-> 36.3g 9.85%,

In both cases extraction is approximately 20%.

Coffee was a Rwandan (Nyungwe) roasted localy, by Hotnumbers, to a medium degree. Both shots were tasty (orange and caramel). One shot was 28s and the other 30s, but I failed to write down which one was which!

These numbers are fairly typical.

Added: The Anfim was running from the hopper, the MC single dosed (but not using the ~1.5g left in the chute)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> I suppose whether single dosing or not, retention in the chute is an issue (although not single dosing you can purge out the few grams that are in there)


It is no issue to me! I grind by eye, thwack it in, weigh it and if my judgement is right, scoop out what is in the exit chamber to top the shot up. It is big and wide and easy to access so nae problems marra


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

risky said:


> I suppose whether single dosing or not, retention in the chute is an issue (although not single dosing you can purge out the few grams that are in there)


Lens hood solves that if you're single dosing


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Lens hood solves that if you're single dosing


Ah yes. I believe for the Royal you keep the metal ring on?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Is it true that the Royal is now discontinued?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Not been seen on their website for a while


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

grumpydaddy said:


> Not been seen on their website for a while


It's still there, you just have to scroll right to the bottom:

http://www.mazzer.com/en/grinder-dosers/royal/


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

someone was saying that now Costa who were the biggest customer are replacing the Royals with Majors that it was being phased out. I was chatting to a parts specialist in the US last night about ordering something and the Royal is not available there, so maybe the Costa rumour is true


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## oddknack (Apr 8, 2014)

What would the majors have over the royals that would prompt the switch?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

oddknack said:


> What would the majors have over the royals that would prompt the switch?


Price, the major is £400 per unit less


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## oddknack (Apr 8, 2014)

I see!


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

@dfk41 where'd you get that blue mat on top of your espresso machine? I remeber seeing it in your Gaggia TS ad as well. I'm looking to put something on top of mine to stop the cups from rumbling.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

bronc said:


> @dfk41 where'd you get that blue mat on top of your espresso machine? I remeber seeing it in your Gaggia TS ad as well. I'm looking to put something on top of mine to stop the cups from rumbling.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002F4LSV4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> when you convert the Royal over from dosered to doserless, their is a gap in the motor housing as the new funnel is smaller. Does anyone know what and where to get the relevant motor plate from? I have seen themas special orders US sites but not here


Do you have photos or a link for the doserless mods?

Want to do something with the Elektra/Macap I have if possible, am considering removing the doser and fitting a nozzle from a heat gun to direct the grinds.

Anyone know of something like this?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

mremanxx said:


> Do you have photos or a link for the doserless mods?
> 
> Want to do something with the Elektra/Macap I have if possible, am considering removing the doser and fitting a nozzle from a heat gun to direct the grinds.
> 
> Anyone know of something like this?


if you go onto aliexpress.com and type in octopus funnel, it will bring back loads of hits of funnels of different shapes and sizes like this one

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Small-Takoyaki-octopus-balls-octopods-pills-funnel-stainless-steel-funnel-fish-ball-funnel-taper-funnel/1434873050.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.2.LdWjOB&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_1,searchweb201644_1_79_78_77_82_80_62_81,searchweb201560_5

you take your doser off, make a template for the exit chute and screw holes with throwing paper. Take the handle off the funnel and cut your holes and away you go. On theRoya, theres a gap as the funnel is shorted but you can get a motor plate to hide it.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Cheers dfk


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