# Sage Barista Express - 2 cup, no pressure



## Mantaii

Hi everyone,

This is my first post but I felt it was a good place to start as the knowledge that seems to be on here is impressive. I recently bought a new coffee machine, a Sage Barista Express machine. I had read reviews saying it takes a bit of setting up but to give it time as it will be worth it. I've managed to get a 1 cup shot giving the correct pressure on the gauge and I get a nice crema but when I try and use the two-shot basket, I get zero pressure showing on the gauge. Not even a small flicker.

The coffee that I get is bitter and it just doesn't taste good. I've tried changing the grind but still have issues. Where am I going wrong with this? Ideally, I want to be able to get a 2-cup shot setup so that I can make 2 cups at a time instead of 1!

If you need any more info, please ask as I really want this machine to work for me.

Thanks,


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## 24774

'I get zero presssure showing on the gauge. Not even a small flicker. ' That is weird, I haven't seen that. Here are some pointers from me, a newbie Sage Barista Express owner, until the big dogs come along and help you out. There's some really good advice on this forum, don't dishearten! I've been in the game about 6/8 weeks. I am getting a nice double shot now, pretty consistent. I haven't gone that far down the rabbit hole and I've not changed any of the factory settings bar the grind size, but these are my early pointers:

- Use the pressurized, double wall basket. Really helps pressure and consistency. This is the first port of call for a newbie.

- Use 18g of freshly roasted beans from a quality brand. I'm using Drury's atm, but I've been recommended Rave, Origin, Square Mile Red Brick, Workshop, Dark Arts among others. Weigh this on scales. Look at the roast date. They need be rested 6-14 days after roasting depending on the type of roast they are. Then you're good to go. Use a medium or darker roast if you can, apparently the grinder in the Sage BE does better with them.

- Get a good tamper, the one that comes with it is too light. I recommend the 53 mm Motta tamper. This changed the game for me with consistent pressure, extraction and shots. Forget the Razor tool maybe. I don't use that atm, I find 18g fluffy ground beans needs a gentle pat down to distribute, then a nice tamp. Learn what pressure to tamp at. I am looking at a distribution tool too, either the Motta one or the Crema one. This will help extract evenly, avoid 'channelling' and get proper pressure I think.

- Use filter water I was told. Nothing to do with pressure, that's just a good tip for avoiding scaling up the machine as much.

Hope this helps while you wait for some more experienced person to offer up some wisdom.


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## Mantaii

I'm currently finding the grinder is putting a lot of ground coffee in to the basket and I'm wasting a lot. I'll need to play with the amount of grind that the machine produces. Do you manage to get the grinder to put just the right amount in with the auto grind or do you do manual?

I thought the double wall was for free ground beans? Is that the basket you are meaning? I'm willing to try anything.

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the reply


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## 24774

Mantaii said:


> I'm currently finding the grinder is putting a lot of ground coffee in to the basket and I'm wasting a lot. I'll need to play with the amount of grind that the machine produces. Do you manage to get the grinder to put just the right amount in with the auto grind or do you do manual?
> 
> I thought the double wall was for free ground beans? Is that the basket you are meaning? I'm willing to try anything.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions and thanks for the reply


 No problem! Guys here helped me out, hoping I can repay favours as I get more knowledge.

'Do you manage to get the grinder to put just the right amount in with the auto grind or do you do manual?' - Atm I haven't programmed it, I just put 18g beans in the grinder and let it grind however long it's factory set to. This does give a big mountain of ground coffee which I just tamp down. You want 25-30 seconds extraction time (water going through coffee) so start timing this to see how long you're getting (tamp and grind effect this).

'I thought the double wall was for free ground beans? Is that the basket you are meaning?' - Double wall is pressurised, I think that means it's takes the 'skill' and guess work out of your method. Non-pressurised will eventually give a better shot but you need to know what you are doing more I think. At least that's how I understand it. Look on the underside of the baskets to make sure you are using the right basket. It says 'double wall' on it.

What do you mean by 'free ground beans'? Double wall is for pressure, not type of beans I think.

Check out 'Hoon's Coffee' on YouTube too, he has our machine and has a tonne of videos explaining this stuff. He'll have one for 'low pressure' I'm sure.


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## Dalerst

You want to use the single wall basket with 18-19g of coffee, weight it out on scales and do a single gring with all the beans. Make sure you give a good even tamp. You will struggle to do an auto grind and get the same amount each time. I would recommend a coffee levelling tool which will improve your consistency on each shot.

What beans are you using and whats the grind setting on your grinder?


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## Mantaii

I'm just using supermarket beans just now as I didn't want to waste expensive beans while I am learning how to use the machine.

Grind settings have been from 10 to 3, trying all sorts, maybe going too much at a time.

As for extraction time - I'm lucky if I get 10 seconds worth of extraction, this is the same for 1 cup or 2 cup dose.


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## Dalerst

Mantaii said:


> I'm just using supermarket beans just now as I didn't want to waste expensive beans while I am learning how to use the machine.
> 
> Grind settings have been from 10 to 3, trying all sorts, maybe going too much at a time.


 With supermarket beans, from my experience you will need to grind fine, maybe as low as 2. You will see a huge difference with fresh beans.

Try 18g on setting 2 and make fine adjustment from there, work to a 60g in the cup in 25-30 seconds, dont worry to much about the pressure the machine is showing


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## Mantaii

Dalerst said:


> With supermarket beans, from my experience you will need to grind fine, maybe as low as 2. You will see a huge difference with fresh beans.
> 
> Try 18g on setting 2 and make fine adjustment from there, work to a 60g in the cup in 25-30 seconds, dont worry to much about the pressure the machine is showing


 When you say 60g in the cup, is that the weight of the actual coffee? Sorry, a bit of a newbie here.

Update: So here is my setup as of this current cuppa coffee I'm having.



Grind set to 1


Weighed out 18g of beans and ground on the 2 cup dose


Using the 2 cup, single wall basket


Pressed the 2 cup serve size


Only got 10 seconds of extraction, if that! It's like a black puddle at the bottom of each cup.


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## Dalerst

Mantaii said:


> When you say 60g in the cup, is that the weight of the actual coffee? Sorry, a bit of a newbie here.


 Thats corect, so basically a 60ml shot of coffee which is classed as a double.


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## Mantaii

So here is my setup as of this current cuppa coffee I'm having.



Grind set to 1


Weighed out 18g of beans and ground on the 2 cup dose


Using the 2 cup, single wall basket


Pressed the 2 cup serve size


Only got 10 seconds of extraction, if that! It's like a black puddle at the bottom of each cup. That is actual running water, not from when I press the button.


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## 24774

Mantaii said:


> So here is my setup as of this current cuppa coffee I'm having.
> 
> 
> 
> Grind set to 1
> 
> 
> Weighed out 18g of beans and ground on the 2 cup dose
> 
> 
> Using the 2 cup, single wall basket
> 
> 
> Pressed the 2 cup serve size
> 
> 
> Only got 10 seconds of extraction, if that! It's like a black puddle at the bottom of each cup. That is actual running water, not from when I press the button.


 When people say 25-30 seconds, it's from when you push the button. So pre-infusion and water time.

Have you tried the double wall pressurised basket yet?


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## Mantaii

@CocoLoco Not yet, I'm on my 3rd coffee of the day already and I'm starting to smell colours 

Good to know about the 25-30 seconds rule. I'll time it next time.

I'll try the double wall too in a bit. Am I right in thinking the double cup is actually a double shot, rather than 2 cups?? It seems a number of people just stick with this option for even just a one cup, just have a stronger coffee.


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## 24774

Mantaii said:


> @CocoLoco Not yet, I'm on my 3rd coffee of the day already and I'm starting to smell colours
> 
> Good to know about the 25-30 seconds rule. I'll time it next time.
> 
> I'll try the double wall too in a bit. Am I right in thinking the double cup is actually a double shot, rather than 2 cups?? It seems a number of people just stick with this option for even just a one cup, just have a stronger coffee.


 Yeah it's a double shot. It's what I have as standard. Top it up either with frothed milk for a latte (which is a PhD course in itself) or hot water for an Americano.

I think using the double wall pressurised might help your issues. That, 18g fresh beans, an even tamp and distribution, see if you can get 25-30 seconds and get a 60ml/60g-ish shot. Once you're there it's about playing around with it. Then becoming obsessed with it, then you'll find yourself looking a £4000 La Marzocco and Lelit machines


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> Have you tried the double wall pressurised basket yet?


 I wouldn't recommend the double wall basket, you would normally use that for pre ground coffee, i.e. a much coarser grind.

When you say only a 10 second extraction, is that to a full 60ml/60g shot, or are you saying the machine only ran for 10 second before it stopped.? Are you giving it a good tamp with 20kg of pressure.

If you can film your process and upload to here that will help us see whats happening.


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## 24774

Dalerst said:


> I wouldn't recommend the double wall basket, you would normally use that for pre ground coffee, i.e. a much coarser grind.
> 
> When you say only a 10 second extraction, is that to a full 60ml/60g shot, or are you saying the machine only ran for 10 second before it stopped.? Are you giving it a good tamp with 20kg of pressure.
> 
> If you can film your process and upload to here that will help us see whats happening.


 Oh is that right? I was told on here to start with that. Will swap and see what results I get. Thanks!


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> Oh is that right? I was told on here to start with that. Will swap and see what results I get. Thanks!


 Im only going from own experience, single wall makes learning whats right and wrong i believe.


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## Mantaii

So this morning I got a bit of pressure build up, better than nothing.

I got 17 seconds of extraction - still a bit short, how do I increase that?

I think it could be the beans that are the issue. I also gave the ground beans a real good press with the tamper so I guess it was more compact to allow the pressure to build.

I'll try again tonight and record it.


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## TomHughes

Mantaii said:


> So this morning I got a bit of pressure build up, better than nothing.
> 
> I got 17 seconds of extraction - still a bit short, how do I increase that?
> 
> I think it could be the beans that are the issue. I also gave the ground beans a real good press with the tamper so I guess it was more compact to allow the pressure to build.
> 
> I'll try again tonight and record it.


 What beans?

There are supermarket beans that are so old and stale they will never work.

And there are supermarket beans that might produce something drinkable.


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## Dalerst

Mantaii said:


> think it could be the beans that are the issue


 Its will be your beans now, get to a local roaster and try some fresh, will make all the difference.


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## Mantaii

Dalerst said:


> Its will be your beans now, get to a local roaster and try some fresh, will make all the difference.


 I had a second bag of coffee in the flat and tried that - BOOM! Much better, nice crema on top, still not 100% pressure but it was better. 
Amazing to think that it's the beans that are the issue - learn something new every day.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll go get some fresh beans from a roaster I know.


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## Alfie

I'v had the same problem with the 2 cup single wall filter. Tried using freshly roasted beans (Coaltown), finer grind, more coffee & extra tamping. Still low pressure & no crema. 1 cup single wall works OK but I like a large cappuccino in the morning & have to use the 2 cup dual wall filter to get a decent result. I think the 2 cup single wall basket is faulty & have tried to purchase a replacement from Sage but it is out of stock. The Barista Express was purchased from John Lewis in Nov 2019.


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## 24774

Alfie said:


> I'v had the same problem with the 2 cup single wall filter. Tried using freshly roasted beans (Coaltown), finer grind, more coffee & extra tamping. Still low pressure & no crema. 1 cup single wall works OK but I like a large cappuccino in the morning & have to use the 2 cup dual wall filter to get a decent result. I think the 2 cup single wall basket is faulty & have tried to purchase a replacement from Sage but it is out of stock. The Barista Express was purchased from John Lewis in Nov 2019.


 I've struggled with 2 cup single wall filter too. Also bought my machine from John Lewis in Nov 2019. I get low/no pressure, no crema and it's weak coffee.

I understand this to be due to grind size, amount, distribution and tamping. I think we need to build up more pressure in the basket. I have an abundance of beans atm so I'll be trying to get a better result with good quality fresh beans.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Keep grinding finer. Weigh in your dose (18g, adjust accordingly).

If you grinding as fine as possible, grinder is the weakest link.


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## TomHughes

CocoLoco said:


> I've struggled with 2 cup single wall filter too. Also bought my machine from John Lewis in Nov 2019. I get low/no pressure, no crema and it's weak coffee.
> 
> I understand this to be due to grind size, amount, distribution and tamping. I think we need to build up more pressure in the basket. I have an abundance of beans atm so I'll be trying to get a better result with good quality fresh beans.


 Are you grinding from the sage grinder straight into a PF? 
don't do that. The grind from it is clumptastic and could be causing excessive channeling.

grind into a small cup. Whisk it up with a paper clip. 
Use a funnel to tip into PF and evenly distribute. Then use a decent tamper, not the one included. To tamp down.

IF you're still having issues you need to grind finer or use more grounds. 
I find 17-19g perfect on mine depending on bean


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## Alfie

CocoLoco said:


> I've struggled with 2 cup single wall filter too. Also bought my machine from John Lewis in Nov 2019. I get low/no pressure, no crema and it's weak coffee.
> 
> I understand this to be due to grind size, amount, distribution and tamping. I think we need to build up more pressure in the basket. I have an abundance of beans atm so I'll be trying to get a better result with good quality fresh beans.


 I've tried everything, including dismantling the grinder & adjusting it for a finer grind (as detailed in this forum). The Coaltown beans I used were roasted the week before so that's not a factor. If the fault lay with the beans/grind/quantity/tamping then surely the 1 cup single wall filter would also cause problems. I've come to the conclusion there may have been a faulty batch of filters, but I don't know anybody with the same machine & the filters are out of stock at Sage.


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## Mantaii

I've got fresh beans which were roasted a couple of days prior to me getting them. I use the 1 and 2 cup single wall basket and I get pressure now, I'm actually at the point where I'm needing to grind course because I'm getting too much pressure in the basket now! It's never straight forward


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## TomHughes

Alfie said:


> I've tried everything, including dismantling the grinder & adjusting it for a finer grind (as detailed in this forum). The Coaltown beans I used were roasted the week before so that's not a factor. If the fault lay with the beans/grind/quantity/tamping then surely the 1 cup single wall filter would also cause problems. I've come to the conclusion there may have been a faulty batch of filters, but I don't know anybody with the same machine & the filters are out of stock at Sage.


 The more tapering (i.e. the 1 cup single) the less channeling from poor technique.


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## 24774

TomHughes said:


> Are you grinding from the sage grinder straight into a PF?
> don't do that. The grind from it is clumptastic and could be causing excessive channeling.
> 
> grind into a small cup. Whisk it up with a paper clip.
> Use a funnel to tip into PF and evenly distribute. Then use a decent tamper, not the one included. To tamp down.
> 
> IF you're still having issues you need to grind finer or use more grounds.
> I find 17-19g perfect on mine depending on bean


 Are you grinding from the sage grinder straight into a PF?

- Yes. Didn't seem a problem with the double wall, I can't see any clumps. But I will do as you say and see what the result is like.

Then use a decent tamper, not the one included.

- That's not a problem, I have a 53mm Motta one that people on this forum said was good?

IF you're still having issues you need to grind finer or use more grounds.

- Good tips, I'll up the amount used if need be and play with the grind settings. Maybe finer is needed to get a longer extraction.

I've just been gifted 1kg fresh Caravan coffee beans by a neighbour whose cafe has been closed for obvious reasons. On top of the Origin and Caravan I already had! I am swimming in beans (well, once they've rested) so will experiment as you suggest then post back here so the OP can see.

Thanks Tom!

EDIT: Made a quick one before I have to get on a conference call, ground into a cup, used a fork to break up lumps, then poured into portafilter with funnel. Definitely just that tip made a difference (I still used double wall as I'm in a rush).


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## 24774

Alfie said:


> I've tried everything, including dismantling the grinder & adjusting it for a finer grind (as detailed in this forum). The Coaltown beans I used were roasted the week before so that's not a factor. If the fault lay with the beans/grind/quantity/tamping then surely the 1 cup single wall filter would also cause problems. I've come to the conclusion there may have been a faulty batch of filters, but I don't know anybody with the same machine & the filters are out of stock at Sage.


 As TomHughes pointed out, the shape of the cup has an effect on pressure. It's easier to get right in a single wall.

Once I've played around I'm post my results back here. We both have exactly the same machine bought from same retailer at exactly the same time, we should get similar results if we do the same thing. In theory anyway!


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## Dalerst

Mantaii said:


> I've got fresh beans which were roasted a couple of days prior to me getting them. I use the 1 and 2 cup single wall basket and I get pressure now, I'm actually at the point where I'm needing to grind course because I'm getting too much pressure in the basket now! It's never straight forward


 Its all a very steep leaning curve, and can get quite frustrating at times.

stick with it you will get there, then you will change your beans and start all over again, or like me have 4 different ones on the go and have to change all the settings for each.


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## Mantaii

Does anyone find that they have the ground amount right down at the lowest setting possible? Even with that setting I still need to skim some ground coffee out of the portafilter.

Why would I need even more than that? I don't really get it.

Typical, changed the grinder to a more coarse setting and now under extracted  - Thankfully I've 1kg of beans to drink. I'll have it sussed by the end of this, I hope!


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## Dalerst

Mantaii said:


> Does anyone find that they have the ground amount right down at the lowest setting possible? Even with that setting I still need to skim some ground coffee out of the portafilter.
> 
> Why would I need even more than that? I don't really get it.
> 
> Typical, changed the grinder to a more coarse setting and now under extracted  - Thankfully I've 1kg of beans to drink. I'll have it sussed by the end of this, I hope!


 what weight of beans are you grinding? the standard basket will only hold 19g even on the finest setting, depending on the bean I use between 16 -18g

only way to get it wright is by weight and not grind time.


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## -Mac

Dalerst said:


> what weight of beans are you grinding? the standard basket will only hold 19g even on the finest setting, depending on the bean I use between 16 -18g
> 
> only way to get it wright is by weight and not grind time.


 I can get over 20g in mine.


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## Dalerst

-Mac said:


> I can get over 20g in mine.


 Do you not have to use the razor to get the right level at 20g? Even with a motta leveller max I've had it 19g without having to remove some grinds.


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## Mantaii

Do you leave the hopper empty then and just weigh your beans then put them in to the top and grind them until nothing left?


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## Dalerst

Mantaii said:


> Do you leave the hopper empty then and just weigh your beans then put them in to the top and grind them until nothing left?


 Yes, I always weight the beans then grind them, allowing 0.3g extra for the grinder retention.

some people say that's not the best way for the sage grinder, but I've always found it to give much better shot consistency


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## -Mac

Dalerst said:


> Do you not have to use the razor to get the right level at 20g? Even with a motta leveller max I've had it 19g without having to remove some grinds.


 Nope.


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## -Mac

Maybe the first version of the BE has slightly bigger baskets? I always read they were 20g.


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## Mantaii

I've just done a brew and used 10g of beans, tampered down in the single cup basket, grind is set to 8 and I ground until the grinder on the top stopped grinding anything.

I have an under extracted coffee - so, I'm thinking I need to keep to 10g and maybe make it a finer grind, is that correct?


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## -Mac

Can't you use the bigger basket? Single are hard to get right.


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## Mantaii

-Mac said:


> Can't you use the bigger basket? Single are hard to get right.


 I thought if I just wanted 1 cup, it made more sense to use the 1 cup basket?


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## -Mac

But doubles are easier to get right. Most people drink a double espresso or add more hot water for a longer drink.


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## Mantaii

Today's update: 20g beans, ground until the grinder has nothing left in it. 2 shot bucket, perfect pressure!


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## -Mac

I always found 20g to work well (or 19.5g for pre-frozen beans - thanks to John).


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## johnb80

Mantaii said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> This is my first post but I felt it was a good place to start as the knowledge that seems to be on here is impressive. I recently bought a new coffee machine, a Sage Barista Express machine. I had read reviews saying it takes a bit of setting up but to give it time as it will be worth it. I've managed to get a 1 cup shot giving the correct pressure on the gauge and I get a nice crema but when I try and use the two shot basket, I get zero presssure showing on the gauge. Not even a small flicker.
> 
> The coffee that I get is bitter and it just doesn't taste good. I've tried changing the grind but still have issues. Where am I going wrong with this? Ideally, I want to be able to get a 2 cup shot setup so that I can make 2 cups at a time instead of 1!
> 
> If you need any more info, please ask as I really want this machine to work for me.
> 
> Thanks,


 I've read this thread with interest, I have the same machine, delivered yesterday with the exact same issues.

Im going to try all of the solutions suggested, thank you all!


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## johnb80

OMG, Wow, I cant believe the difference. Yesterday I was somewhat disappointed with the £400+ coffee machine. After following the advice on this thread and using the double wall basket instead of the single wall one the difference is incredible. The pressure was up at the 12 oclock position, the coffee really creamy going into the cup.

I also watched this video and learned a lot, the milk aspect especially so






Thank you all for the advice and help Ive been given in such a short time, hopefully, one day, I can help others too.

J


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## Dalerst

johnb80 said:


> using the double wall basket instead of the single wall one the difference is incredible. The pressure was up at the 12 oclock position, the coffee really creamy going into the cup.


 Now you just need to get the single wall basket right, and you will see another difference


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## johnb80

Dalerst said:


> Now you just need to get the single wall basket right, and you will see another difference


 My fresh beans from Rave were due to arrive today but as yet theyre not here. Just made another cup with Costa beans and it all worked really well.

J


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## Alfie

Alfie said:


> I'v had the same problem with the 2 cup single wall filter. Tried using freshly roasted beans (Coaltown), finer grind, more coffee & extra tamping. Still low pressure & no crema. 1 cup single wall works OK but I like a large cappuccino in the morning & have to use the 2 cup dual wall filter to get a decent result. I think the 2 cup single wall basket is faulty & have tried to purchase a replacement from Sage but it is out of stock. The Barista Express was purchased from John Lewis in Nov 2019.


 I emailed Sage support to explain the problem with the single wall filter. Lea Giusti replied & agreed to send me some (free of charge) beans from Pact Coffee: https://welcome.pactcoffee.com/pactcoffeeblog/ They were the Fruit & Nut Dark Expresso & had been roasted 2 days before. What a difference! I now get a good pressure & decent crema with the 2 cup single wall filter, even with the grind size at 4. So it does all depend on the beans. I have to say Sage support were excellent.


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## Philvans

Hi Iv been a Sage barrister owner for 5 years now but recently have noticed getting poor pressure on the double espresso .

I sometimes get beans online but generally use Lavister or supermarket (I find Aldi's are ok for Cafetière) , previously not had too many issues but am struggling to get a perfect pressure on the dial now for some reason.

Iv replaced the filters and experimented with the grinds but not making a difference to the results .

Thanks for any help

Phil


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## Philvans

Philvans said:


> Hi Iv been a Sage barrister owner for 5 years now but recently have noticed getting poor pressure on the double espresso .
> 
> I sometimes get beans online but generally use Lavister or supermarket (I find Aldi's are ok for Cafetière) , previously not had too many issues but am struggling to get a perfect pressure on the dial now for some reason.
> 
> Iv replaced the filters and experimented with the grinds but not making a difference to the results .
> 
> Thanks for any help
> 
> Phil


 Sorry wrong spelling Lavazza


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## EJL

Hi All, very interesting reading the threads, I've bought the Express Impress and I am struggling with the 2cup single wall basket, same issues with pressure and no crema as others previously mentioned. Works fine with the dual wall basket, but I don't want to use that as that, as far as I am aware, is for ground coffee or not as good quality coffee. 

From what I have read I think this is what I need to do:

Using the single wall 2 cup basket:

use a very good quality coffee that has been recently roasted.
My dose is automatic so add slightly over that required to create more pressure.
grinder on level 2 (but will depend on beans)

It is very frustrating but hopefully I will get there eventually. I have done the pressure test and works fine - gets up to 12 o'clock but no higher, not sure if it should be going higher? 

Any help/advice/tips welcome!


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