# Upgrade / change from jazzer super jolly



## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

As per the title. Pondering on a change from the super jolly. The one I own is barely 1yr old. Used daily, has done the trick but I'm just interested to see what opinions are on other grinders.

My idea would be to sell this one one, hopefully getting as close to £300 as possible and see whats on the market - (unless it sells for more obviously)

Reasoning - I would like something doserless, rather than using the manual doser as it is as it comes.

I would also be interested in something a bit smaller as I use the normal hopper and it's huge quite frankly - and I can't be bothered modding it as I've limited time.

I am not interested in anything that provides a grind of less quality.

Be interesting to hear your thoughts.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The mods, especially the lens hood one, would take a great deal less time than selling on and buying a new grinder, so that reasoning seems a little...odd.

A motor capable of driving similar or better burrs is going to be equally as large... and most of the grinders of this calibre have equally large hoppers.

You could always quadruple your budget (and then some) and get a versalab.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Something like the Eureka Zenith 65E? Same burr size and type as SJ but grind-on-demand.

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-grinders/espresso-coffee-grinders/eureka-zenith-65e-grinder.html

Having also had a SJ, I don't want to go back to a doser. Grind-on-demand all the way for me!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> Something like the Eureka Zenith 65E? Same burr size and type as SJ but grind-on-demand.
> 
> http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-grinders/espresso-coffee-grinders/eureka-zenith-65e-grinder.html
> 
> Having also had a SJ, I don't want to go back to a doser. Grind-on-demand all the way for me!


Just found this....read it and tell me you don't want one.

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/EurekaZenith65EvsMazzerMiniE.pdf


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

how about this?

http://www.maxicoffee.com/moulin-eureka-zenith-barista-noir-p-12483-3_68.html

slightly smaller burrs @60mm but only £370


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> how about this?
> 
> http://www.maxicoffee.com/moulin-eureka-zenith-barista-noir-p-12483-3_68.html
> 
> slightly smaller burrs @60mm but only £370


Coffeechap, the above does look interesting, but I must say I do like the sound of the bigger brother on the BB link above. Albeit £200 dearer and only obvious difference is the 500w motor over a 300w motor.... Pending my French translations that is!

please do keep the suggestions coming people.

out of curiosity, what would the expected price be for a less than 1yo SJOLLY be? Just need to think what my budget may be...

thanks for for the early, and interesting responses!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

bongo said:


> Coffeechap, the above does look interesting, but I must say I do like the sound of the bigger brother on the BB link above. Albeit £200 dearer and only obvious difference is the 500w motor over a 300w motor.... Pending my French translations that is!
> 
> please do keep the suggestions coming people.
> 
> ...


You are in the ballpark with £300, maybe a tad more, if you are lucky


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

what about this then? i believe a few people have had dealings with them on the forum.

http://elektros.it/shop/en/520-grinder-eureka-zenith-65-e-black.html

£440 the same one at bella barista


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> what about this then? i believe a few people have had dealings with them on the forum.
> 
> http://elektros.it/shop/en/520-grinder-eureka-zenith-65-e-black.html
> 
> £440 the same one at bella barista


I think that's the puppy really. Including the small hopper and postage (free) is €612 so roughly £460 - £440 with std hopper.

its in stock in white but i think i'll wait for black.... Unless pressure can be put on BB to price match, as reading up on it, BB used to do £499 inc small hopper.

i've no loyalty to BB so ordering elsewhere to save £80 (£540 to £460) is a no brainer for me!?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I would go BB just for the customer service, being in the UK and for piece of mind regarding delivery etc.

Do you want to have to use google translate to write angry emails in French? I think not.

I also love buying British (or at least using British retailers) hence the Fracino









(I also want this grinder now after researching about it). Smaller, more powerful version of SJ but grind-on-demand, smaller footprint and smaller hopper. ARrghhhh!


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Bongo and I are discussing buying this week fatboyslim, could we include you as a buyer this week in any negotiations.

Ian


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

Hi FBS,

Unfortunately my only previous dealing with BB left me out of favour of their customer service - so i'm really not fussed about that (and please, I know others here are big fans, so keep your comments on the matter at bay).

Second, they're Italian not French, and as I speak Italian it's no problem.

While I understand your point, i.e., supporting local/British shops - it's not like they made the thing. They just sell it, as they would a Chinese bulk manufactured product if they thought it was worthwhile and they can make a profit on it.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to pay an extra 20% for the privilege.

I have contacted BB though. If they can improve on price I would support the shop who supports the forum, and give them a second chance at proving why they generally have such great support by public (forum) opinion.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I've also sent a price match request to BB, I guess it will be Monday before any reply is forthcoming.

Ian


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

Ian et al.

By the same token, any thoughts on approaching Elektros and seeing if they would offer a discount on the purchase of multiple grinders?

I'm happy to send an email now as I'd like to know when they anticipate having the grinder back in stock in Black, as currently they've only got it in white.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

fatboyslim said:


> Do you want to have to use google translate to write angry emails in French? I think not.


Why do you anticipate having to do this?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

I might be interested in any group buy on this.

It has been suggested/recommended to me on several occasions as a way of moving to on demand grinding with no loss of quality compared t SJ.

Watching with interest...


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Eyedee said:


> Bongo and I are discussing buying this week fatboyslim, could we include you as a buyer this week in any negotiations.
> 
> Ian


Not able to pull the trigger any time soon unfortunately. Thanks for the offer and hope you get a good deal. Will be interested to hear your thoughts compared to SJ.



bongo said:


> Hi FBS,
> 
> Unfortunately my only previous dealing with BB left me out of favour of their customer service - so i'm really not fussed about that (and please, I know others here are big fans, so keep your comments on the matter at bay).
> 
> ...


Fair enough, totally understand. I've never actually bought anything from BB so I wouldn't know. How convenient that you speak Italian! Hope it means you can get a better deal.

My upgraditis is now firmly locked on this grinder....and a 28" 4K monitor....


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

I might be interested in being included.

I'm not getting on with the SJ and am getting some hassle from the boss about it's size!


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Choccymonster - I'm not sure the Zenith will help you much on the size issue. Less depth due to lack of dower but the other differences are negligible:

super jolly -

Around 35(H) x 26(W) x 40(D) cm without the hopper.

Zenith - DIMENSIONS: height (hopper included) 591 mm. height (hopper excluded) 379 mm. width 221 mm. depth 237 mm. weight 13 kg.


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

NickdeBug said:


> Choccymonster - I'm not sure the Zenith will help you much on the size issue. Less depth due to lack of dower but the other differences are negligee:
> 
> .


NickdeBug, From the spec that i've read the power matches if not beats the super jolly (i.e., when tested, not just what is stated on the plate).

It's also doserless which is what I'm looking for.

I also use the hopper on the SJ which is huge, so with the small hopper on the Zenith it comes in much smaller.

I've been talking to Gianni from Elektros most of the morning. I've just ordered my 65E in black which is back in stock within the next 2 days.

He has done €580 euro including the small hopper, postage and coffee to bed in the burrs. Really good communication so far - and really good english too.

I think Ian is going to order his too.

BB also got back to me but could only do £499 + postage. Elektro's came in at just under £440 all in. Will update people in a week or so once it's in hand.

This is also the 2015 model which has an aluminium control panel rather than plastic which is what the 2014 model had.

Anyway, there will shortly be a mint condition super jolly up for sale shortly!


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

Bongo, We might have read the same review.

Nick,I know there's not much in it but the lack of doser makes it look far less imposing.

I don't know what else to go for.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Agreed.

it's a bugger that it is 20mm too tall to go under my wall until, even with the short hopper. Might have to do some re jigging in the kitchen as this is definitely top of the list if I decide to go the doserless route.

just waiting for some new burrs for my SJ to see if the grind quality improves.

I have a laser diffraction particle sizer at work which will give me a very accurate measurement on grind size and distribution. Might be interesting to do a before and after.

If anyone else wants to send me samples from their grinder I don't mind running them through the lab. Test takes a couple of minutes so no big deal.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am sure you could use a lens hood as a hopper then it will definitely fit, the particle size analysis could be very interesting


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

NickdeBug said:


> If anyone else wants to send me samples from their grinder I don't mind running them through the lab. Test takes a couple of minutes so no big deal.


Would love to do some analysis on the Hausgrind at coarse settings. Firstly where do you work that has such a machine and secondly where in UK is that?

Bongo, amazing price (€1 = £0.77?) ! Always good to talk to the manufacturers. Just out of interest, how much coffee did they seem to think would properly season the burrs?


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

FBS

Nothing was said, but largely because I didn't ask. Gianni simply said he'd send a load of coffee with the grinder. I lack experience in that department, so would welcome recommendations...


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

coffeechap said:


> I am sure you could use a lens hood as a hopper then it will definitely fit, the particle size analysis could be very interesting


Does anyone have any idea of the entry size to do a lens hood mod.

Ian


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Elektros are excellent in my experience - got a second hand Oscar from someone in London and was having some issues with it so I emailed Gianni (expecting him to tell me to sling my hook because I didn't buy it from them) but he was really helpful, emailed me at all hours with suggestions about what the problem, seemed really keen to try and get sort things out. Would have no qualms dealing with them.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Eyedee said:


> Does anyone have any idea of the entry size to do a lens hood mod.
> 
> Ian


Not sure Ian but davec did the comprehensive review, just get some on here with one to do a measurement


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I bought a lightly used zenith 65e to upgrade from my Mazzer Mini doser/timer. Whilst it won't win any beauty competitions it is such a joy to use, both in ease of use, cleaning the burrs without needing to dial in again, setting the grind and dose, even the wee light that shines into the portafilter. Better in the cup than the 58mm Mini and a lot less faffing without that doser. I haven't had an SJ but I hear that the 65e is at least as good in the cup and has a more powerful motor. DavecUK did a review of it and said it compared very favourably with the SJ. My guess would be that there may or may not be £150+ worth of benefit in the cup but if you are looking for a grinder that's at least as good but on-demand then there's a lot to be said for the Zenith. But with its dark, squat body and short hopper, it's got more bloke appeal than WAF.

Beauty and The Beast

(Sorry for crap photo, I'm using a tesco hudl!)


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Iin



hotmetal said:


> I bought a lightly used zenith 65e to upgrade from my Mazzer Mini doser/timer. Whilst it won't win any beauty competitions it is such a joy to use, both in ease of use, cleaning the burrs without needing to dial in again, setting the grind and dose, even the wee light that shines into the portafilter. Better in the cup than the 58mm Mini and a lot less faffing without that doser. I haven't had an SJ but I hear that the 65e is at least as good in the cup and has a more powerful motor. My guess would be that there may or may not be £150+ worth of benefit in the cup but if you are looking for a grinder that's at least as good but on-demand then there's a lot to be said for the Zenith. But with its dark, squat body and short hopper, it's got more bloke appeal than WAF.
> 
> Beauty and The Beast


Can you measure the diameter of the entry to the upper buur carrier


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Hold on, I'll get my callipers out. Gimme a few mins.

Hi Dave. Nominally 53mm throat if that's what you mean. The bottom of the hopper is slightly conical to ensure a good fit and measures 52.3 widening to 53.7mm at the top. There are a load of beans in the throat of the top burr carrier but using the internal bit of my vernier I'm seeing 52.95mm dia. Without tipping the beans out I can't say for sure but it appears to narrow slightly as you'd expect given the slight conical shape of the hopper.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yep, removing the plastic trim and inserting calliper blades as far as I can shows 52.15 further in so I'd stick by a nominal 53mm with a slight precision taper for a good fit with the hopper bottom. Hope that's useful.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Great

So options for the zenith would be

52 mm collapsible lens hood

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Phot-R-52mm-Universal-Collapsible-Rubber-Multi-Lens-Hood-for-Wide-Angle-Lenses-/261392822560?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item3cdc39f120

52 - 58 adaptor would mean the standard 58 mm lens hood could be used.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/52mm-to-58mm-Male-to-Male-lens-Reverse-Macro-Coupler-Adapter-Canon-Nikon-UK-/131347834178?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item1e94f0e542

Which is this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/58mm-Collapsible-Rubber-Lens-Hood-FOR-canon-nikon-sony-UK-LOCAL-/300805875205?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item46096d6605

Change down rings could increase the size of collapsible lens hood usable.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7pcs-77-72-67-62-58-55-52-49mm-Step-Down-Rings-Lens-Adapter-Filter-Set-DC69-/161101254833?pt=UK_Photography_Adapter_Rings&hash=item25826210b1

Also if you don't want a collapsing hood you could opt for fixed like this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/52mm-Wide-Angle-Metal-Lens-Hood-for-Canon-Nikon-OLYMPUS-Sony-JVC-/251080213297?pt=UK_Photography_CameraLenses_Lens_caps_hoods_adaptors_ET&hash=item3a758c0331

All of these will reduce the size of the grinder further and mean you would not need to buy the smaller hopper, so cheaper still.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

A big thank you from me to Dave (coffee chap) for doing all the leg work on this.

And to Hotmetal as he warmed to the task

Ian


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

What about me? I had to walk all the way from the sofa to the cupboard under the stairs, then to the kitchen, lift the hopper up, measure it and now do the whole thing in reverse to put the callipers away. That's at least 30 feet! Sorry, couldn't resist!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

hotmetal said:


> What about me? I had to walk all the way from the sofa to the cupboard under the stairs, then to the kitchen, lift the hopper up, measure it and now do the whole thing in reverse to put the callipers away. That's at least 30 feet! Sorry, couldn't resist!


Hey moaning mini, we both thanked you on your post


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Hey moaning mini, we both thanked you on your post


Er, I just can't resist the opportunity for a weak pun! (Legwork. You should see the size of my humble abode!)

(You didn't really think I was asking for more thanks did you?)


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

hotmetal said:


> Er, I just can't resist the opportunity for a weak pun! (Legwork. You should see the size of my humble abode!)
> 
> (You didn't really think I was asking for more thanks did you?)


No not at all, actually it was good of you to do that!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

No problem old bean. Happy to assist you assisting someone else! I'd have to be really lazy to not want to grab my vernier and walk the few steps to the coffee corner!


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Re particle size analysis. I have access to a Sympatec diffraction system, basically a Malvern Instruments knock off. Same process and same algorithms used.

I have just moved jobs and don't really work with powders anymore, so the equipment I now have is set up for liquids (suspensions and colloids). Fortunately I am still good friends with the formulations manager at my last company and he is a real coffee nut.

If we wanted to make this a full on experiment and test the grind capacity of a number of different pieces of equipment, I am sure that it could be arranged. It would be really interesting to get some data on different beans through the same kit, or even different ages of bean.

of course, size is only one factor that would influence the result, but if you can get a consistent grind size and tamp then physics should take care of some of the other things.

equipment is based near Winchester.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I could certainly bring quite a few grinders down


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Cool.

i will get in touch with him and try and gauge interest. It might have to be a weekend, or maybe one evening once the clocks go forward. He lives in Reading but this is just the kind of thing that he would love.

we actually looked at a number of different grinders for some of the materials that we were working on. Problem being, they were mostly wax based and the heat from a coffee type grinder just squished everything together rather than broke it apart. Ended up using air milling and super critical co2 injection.

The mills that we have in my new lab can happily get you down to a grind size with an x50 of about 25 nanometers. Might be good for a Turkish!


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Hi Nick

I'm near Winchester and could bring a super jolly and HG one to test out if this goes ahead


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Righto.

I will keep you posted.


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

Mine should be here tomorrow. I went with BB in the end as I wanted one in silver and have a terrible track record with new devices and problems!

Will be interesting to see how it compares.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Good luck selling the SJ with Coffee Omega threatening to flood the market!

might be worth holding on a bit or trying your luck on eBay.


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## BlueHole222 (Feb 2, 2015)

Yep certainly sounds like a winner! I'd be happy to join the 'group deal'

I agree with Bongo £460 is already more than I want to spend ;-)

What's the best deal on these machines now days?

Has anyone tried to order from that - Italian, I believe, site?


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## BlueHole222 (Feb 2, 2015)

Also what about service? if it breaks do we ship it back to Italy?


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

That was the reason I went with BB, it's their issue to deal with.

mine arrived today, very happy with how it looks in silver, now I just have to season it!


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

BlueHole222 said:


> Also what about service? if it breaks do we ship it back to Italy?


If it breaks it's under warranty. So you take / send it back to an authorised dealer. So send it to who ever you like (who is an authorised dealer).

But note, the original seller of the item is the party that has responsibility for the warranty, so any shop you do take it too would be doing it out of the kindness of their heart.

Unless you bought directly from the manufacturer don't expect anything from them.

I think it's a stupid rule that places too much owns on the party that sells an item over the manufacturer who is in some cases truly liable. But that's the way it is.


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

BlueHole222 said:


> Has anyone tried to order from that - Italian, I believe, site?


Both myself and Ian placed orders over the weekend. Should be here within a week. We were informed that they were not in stock until Monday/Tuesday this week so would be dispatched following that.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

BB also offer a 2 year warranty compared to the normal 1



Chockymonster said:


> Mine should be here tomorrow. I went with BB in the end as I wanted one in silver and have a terrible track record with new devices and problems!
> 
> Will be interesting to see how it compares.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

PeterF said:


> BB also offer a 2 year warranty compared to the normal 1


I wonder how many grinders they get back


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

I've just put a kilo and a half of stale beans though mine. Ok, it was an expensive change but I'm glad I've done it, that's the first time I've tasted a shot of espresso and been able to taste any of the notes mentioned in the tasting profile!

It's not noisy and doesn't look anywhere near as imposing on the counter, so major wife points earned.


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