# First time descaling the Barista Express BES875; to filter or not to filter, help!



## giraldoddb (Feb 6, 2019)

Hi, I received a Sage Barista Express for Christmas, Father Christmas was finally good to me; it has gone on " Clean Me" mode once since then, it has been cleaned once as per instructions and it is now coming to 40Lt use, I'm thinking about changing the ClaroSwiss filter for the first time as per instructions.

So, I'm thinking about descaling the coffee machine before changing to the new £14.95 water filter and I have a few questions I hope you clever people can answer for me.

Do I leave ClaroSwiss water filter in place while I descale the coffee machine? the instruction manual doesn't mention this step so I'm assuming you leave it on but not sure; Will leaving the water filter on not reduce the effectiveness of the descaling agent? Do you people leave it on or remove it?

I live in South Somerset and water is very hard and not going down the bottled water route as trying to cut on plastic; I descale our kettle every other month, that's how hard our water is. Should the coffee machine be descaled as often as that? those of you living in hard water regions, How often do you do it?

Any other cleaning and descaling tips you can think of?

Too many questions, I know, but keen to get it right. So far very happy with the results ...best coffee I've ever had at home.

Thank you for your help.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

I'm in the exact same situation. Although I haven't got a new filter yet. Sage are sending one, although that hasn't arrived yet. When I registered online they said they would send free filters, every 3 months for a year! Although it must be coming snail mail!


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

You absolutely need to remove the water filter before descaling. If you left the filter in place whilst decaling there is the possibility of some of the descaler solution could be trapped I the filter and result in you drinking some of it, wouldn't be advisable.

If your using the filters in theory they should keep most of the scale out of your machine, but if you live in a very hard water area I would still aim to descale maybe every 2 months, but that is just my personal opinion.


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

whitey01200 said:


> I'm in the exact same situation. Although I haven't got a new filter yet. Sage are sending one, although that hasn't arrived yet. When I registered online they said they would send free filters, every 3 months for a year! Although it must be coming snail mail!


They will email you when they are they going to send the filter out, I did receive mine actually was nearly 3 months to day from date of purchasing the barista express.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Iris said:


> They will email you when they are they going to send the filter out, I did receive mine actually was nearly 3 months to day from date of purchasing the barista express.


Yeah, they have emailed but it's not arrived yet! Email was 29th Jan. just wondering where it's coming from!?!?!


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

whitey01200 said:


> Yeah, they have emailed but it's not arrived yet! Email was 29th Jan. just wondering where it's coming from!?!?!


There was about 3 weeks between when I received the initial email and then I received another email saying the filter was on its way, received it next day via royal mail after the second email.

I would guess it will probably be another week or so before you receive your filter.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Iris said:


> There was about 3 weeks between when I received the initial email and then I received another email saying the filter was on its way, received it next day via royal mail after the second email.
> 
> I would guess it will probably be another week or so before you receive your filter.


Thanks


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

One option some one mentioned on descaling is to use the kettle as an indication for when to descale their DTP in this case. The BE is very similar in terms of where scale will build up. Very probably exactly the same. Not much use for me as hardly any scale builds up in our kettles even over several years.

So on that basis maybe just use the filter that is supplied. It will exhaust at some point and descale based on the kettle. It will still filter out particles.

Cost wise bottled water seems to be clearly cheaper than Sage's new filter. @MildredM has her machine serviced every 2 years and see no signs of scale. Not sure what she uses?







Hope she doesn't blend for neutral Ph.

Some people use pour over filters. Another option. Best pick a set up that uses affordable filters. Personally I would also buy some hardness testing strips to check that they do soften water. These could also be used to check the filter - any type that is used, even Sage's. Hardness varies widely across the country so say some filter has a 40L capacity it's likely to have more or less capacity based on where it is used. There doesn't seem to be any standards on what these numbers mean other than where info is available one maker suggest replacing very frequently - result scale will never build up. It's a rather expensive filter in the UK, much cheaper where it is available elsewhere in Europe. Sage's may be the same or a special just for them.

Sage still show the earlier filter holder parts as spares. I think some one reported that these still fit the newer models but best ask in a separate thread. Many people who live in hard water areas would be using bottled water with them though. The filters are still shown as well which are very likely to be just carbon based and are available elsewhere in any case.

Reverse osmosis units have their problems. Curiously one I used years ago didn't - no waste water but the flow rate through was very low. There were some posts about a water dispenser that used RO recently. RO water should be remineralised.

Ion exchange filters that will soften tend to be rather expensive when coffee related. Suppose it depends on capacity though. An alternative type uses a resin that can be regenerated. Some sources of those suggest that the output should be blended with some raw water for drinking. Some units can have a tap / valve to set that. These units are being fitted more and more in factories and office blocks in areas that have hard water.








Anyway if some one is using some form of water softening kit hardness testing strips may pay for themselves very quickly. eg

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Water-Hardness-Test-Strips-Dishwasher/dp/B07BRFNNKF/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1549799718&sr=8-17&keywords=hardness+testing

or even these for the manic









https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HL8KMJ2/ref=pd_luc_rh_sspa_dk_huc_pt_expsub_2?psc=1

Descaler crops up often. Hard to answer. Sage's does have some sulphamic acid in it - ok on stainless a bit of a no no on aluminium. Puly descaler doesn't and on my DB I've seen some evidence that it's more effective than Sage's. Thernblocks, jets, coils etc are rather different. To me those need it more often. There are a number of brands about intended to be used in bean to cup machines - these also use thermothingies so should be suitable. However one which is reckoned to be very effective, Durgol, is sold on the basis of all machines using stainless parts for heating the water. I'd be inclined to mostly run descaler through the hot water outlet if that is used. Some people use cirtic acid -







Durgol have a nice video showing the vinegar is far more effective. It's also good at brightening brass but only rather slowly.

John

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I am using Volvic/Waitrose Lockhills mixed


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I am using Volvic/Waitrose Lockhills mixed


LOL You should buy a more robust machine.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I thought that water softeners were available in the UK that can be regenerated. I've seen more of them in other parts of europe. This is one. Various sizes are available

https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/espresso-machine-water-softener-8l-4254-p.asp

The manual for them and an instructional video is on the same page. Personally I have thought that these are a better option than typical RO units and standard filter cartridges could be used upstream to remove other things. Personally as our water comes at a bit under 25ppm total calcium I am more interested in fitting cartridges. Filter and charcoal types. Then my espresso machines wouldn't need any filters of any type at all.

Not really pertinent to Sage machines but could apply to many others is these. Might even be possible to modify a Sage tank to take them.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Softener-Cartridge-Espresso-Machines-ESPRESS/dp/B01CMA1SGU/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&qid=1549819021&sr=8-35&keywords=coffee+machine+cartridge

Prices of that seller are usually pretty aggressive compared with say EspressoUnderground who also stock them.







They are supposed to stand on their base - not tilted as shown.

Salt regeneration - that actually can be done with the bulk of the softening filters that are around providing they can be taken apart and put together again - those tank filters can according to some.

John

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