# Is 12 bar pressure ok at back-flushing?



## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

Hello all of you!

I just bought a Expobar Brewtus 4 with vibration pump and have a question.

Built in pressure-gauge on the machine shows 12 bar at the back-flushing. Is that ok?

Should I adjust the pressure down a bit?

I have filmed my back-flushing, the film can be seen here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jl07i92l7s6x9kw/2013-10-16% 2007.44.17.mp4

(Excuse me if I don´t write correctly, I'm from Sweden:-D).

/ David


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ha ha your English is better than a lot on here!! You can adjust the pressure down via the opv.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Fixed your link -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jl07i92l7s6x9kw/2013-10-16%2007.44.17.mp4


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I think the brewtus over-reads by about 1 bar, so 10 bar on the shot is about right (although of course the 9 bar thing is pretty arbitrary)


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Those vibes are so loud !


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes they are. Wakes me up in the morning...


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Mate has a Expo Hx and it is a lot louder than the vibe pump in my Bz. is it the build quality or the pump itself?


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

most manufacturers use ulka don't they? is there a quieter pump he can replace it with. he tried rubber feet under the pump with little success!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

10.5 with blind basket is about right on my machine. Checked it against a portafilter-manometer


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Ha ha your English is better than a lot on here!! You can adjust the pressure down via the opv.


Haha thanks!







I know I can adjust the pressure, I just do not know if it's necessary.



 Expobarista said:


> I think the brewtus over-reads by about 1 bar, so 10 bar on the shot is about right (although of course the 9 bar thing is pretty arbitrary)


Ok, but I'm not sure if my grind-settings is 100% correct yet :/. But it is good for me to know if the Brewtus over-reads the pressure!



coffeechap said:


> Those vibes are so loud !


Well, it is not so loud I think. The grinder and the steam wand is louder







.



garydyke1 said:


> 10.5 with blind basket is about right on my machine. Checked it against a portafilter-manometer


Thanks for your info!

I dont have any portafilter-manometer so I was hoping that others on this forum had checked against a portafilter-manometer







. So I will therefore put pressure down til the Expobars gauge shows 10.5 bar with a blind-filter back-flush and then it is ok?!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

''til the Expobars gauge shows 10.5 bar with a blind-filter back-flush and then it is ok?!''

Try it and see how you get on. Ive calibrated two machines now and both needed 10.5 on the machines gauge to be correct.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

glevum said:


> most manufacturers use ulka don't they? is there a quieter pump he can replace it with. he tried rubber feet under the pump with little success!


Get him to slot in a rotary and plumb it, mine is super quiet


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:



> ''til the Expobars gauge shows 10.5 bar with a blind-filter back-flush and then it is ok?!''





garydyke1 said:


> Try it and see how you get on. Ive calibrated two machines now and both needed 10.5 on the machines gauge to be correct.


Thanks for your help!

I have turned down to 10.5 bar pressure with blind filter this morning.

I made a shot before I went to work but brewing pressure just went up to about 8-8.5 bar (the espresso tasted good anyway).

I guess I have to set the grinder to grind finer so the brew-pressure will go up higher?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

What output (g) & in what shot-time (secs) ?


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> What output (g) & in what shot-time (secs) ?


About 18g in 26sec. It climb up to 8,5 bar now.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

So you are getting 18g output in 26 seconds from an 18g dose?

Thats a ristretto, im suprised the machine gauge didnt max out at 10.5BAR


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> So you are getting 18g output in 26 seconds from an 18g dose?
> 
> Thats a ristretto, im suprised the machine gauge didnt max out at 10.5BAR


I'm sorry, I Think I missunderstod?

I loaded portafilter with 18g and it took 26 seconds to get 6cl.

My scale is maybe not 100% reliable so I'll check with another scale on Sunday. I will return with the results! .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You need to grind finer as that is quite a big output in fluid volume! You should be aiming for around 45 cl tops, but to be more accurate you need to weigh the actual shot output, you should be aiming for around 28 grams from an 18 gram input.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

yeah thats why it rushed through the puck @ 8bar!


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> What output (g) & in what shot-time (secs) ?


Hello again!

I have finally got my new scale. But I feel like an idiot who has to ask what is meant by output?

Is it coffee grounds? ... Or is it the actual espresso I should weigh?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Espresso mate


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> You need to grind finer as that is quite a big output in fluid volume! You should be aiming for around 45 cl tops, but to be more accurate you need to weigh the actual shot output, you should be aiming for around 28 grams from an 18 gram input.


Hi,

I think you mean 4,5cl?

(2oz = about 6cl)


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Yes I did mean an oz and a half


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

glevum said:


> most manufacturers use ulka don't they? is there a quieter pump he can replace it with. he tried rubber feet under the pump with little success!


My vibe pump in the Brewtus is an Ulka EX5...possibly the same on the HX.

View attachment 4365


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Espresso mate


Ok 

I Think I grind to fine now...

Input: 18.4 g

output: 59.1 g.

28sec for 2 oz.

Max about 9,7 bar pressure.

The output depends on then I put the brewing off?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What grinder are you using, that is way too fine


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> What grinder are you using, that is way too fine


I am using a Bezzera BB005TM

As you can see, I am a real newbie. This is my first espresso machine and grinder and has no experience in this craft. I really appreciate your help!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The grinder is a good one, just make smaller adjustments on it each time


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> The grinder is a good one, just make smaller adjustments on it each time


What am I supposed to reach?

How much input?

How long shoot time?

How much output?

I was tried to reach around 9.5 bar pressure during brewing (10.5 bar with the blind filter) and to get up to 9.5 bar, I had to grind much finer than before.

Best regards. David


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ok the basic parameters are

18 gram of coffee in the basket

28 gram of fluid in the shot glass

Shot run over a period of 27 seconds

If the shot weight is less over 27 seconds coarse the grind one click then pull again


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Ok the basic parameters are
> 
> 18 gram of coffee in the basket
> 
> ...


Oh ok! That is about half output weight :-D.

And then the fluid volume should be about 1,5 - 2 oz after that 27 sec?

I will try again tomorrow.

Thanks again!!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Not fine enough !


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Not fine enough !


You mean I must grind even finer?

So for me to get a lower weight output, I have to grind finer?

I now get an output 51.3 g @ 2 oz with an input 18.3g and the onboard gauge showed max around 9.8 bar.

Have a nice day!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

That's correct. Grind finer for less output . You're currently pulling extreme lungos


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Agree with Gary, aim for less output. I've found Gauging by weight rather than volume is a better indication on extraction.

Try aiming for approx 28g-35g based on 18g dose.


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

And this is to create a double espresso?

I think it will be less in liquid volume, and brew pressure will be higher if I grind even finer? But this is what I should aim for?

Thanks once again for a kindness to help me!

I will test more during the day


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Agree with Gary, aim for less output. I've found Gauging by weight rather than volume is a better indication on extraction.
> 
> Try aiming for approx 28g-35g based on 18g dose.


If I have 18g input and about ~30g output, how much in volym (cl or oz) should it be and in how long time?

...or is the volume irrelevant as long as I get the right weight on output after about 27 seconds?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

David_Sweden said:


> If I have 18g input and about ~30g output, how much in volym (cl or oz) should it be and in how long time?


If your measuring by ratio and weight then don't get hung up on volume ,as it will vary depending on the type of bean being used .

Time wise for the pull how does it taste and , what are you aiming for .


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Volume differs from bean to bean. Depending on how much of the shot is crema, volume can differ greatly as the crema is lighter than the liquid. On average it's approx 1.3 - 1.5oz in volume.

But you'd be looking to pull approx 28g from 18g dose in 25-30 secs as a guide. Ultimately fine tune with taste.

Aiming for the 2oz shot in 30 secs really threw me to begin with. It was a bit of a moment of clarity for me when I first started measuring by weight, my shots improved dramatically.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Why is volume important ?


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> If your measuring by ratio and weight then don't get hung up on volume ,as it will vary depending on the type of bean being used .
> 
> Time wise for the pull how does it taste and , what are you aiming for .


Thanks for your respons! Now I understand this!



urbanbumpkin said:


> Volume differs from bean to bean. Depending on how much of the shot is crema, volume can differ greatly as the crema is lighter than the liquid. On average it's approx 1.3 - 1.5oz in volume.
> 
> But you'd be looking to pull approx 28g from 18g dose in 25-30 secs as a guide. Ultimately fine tune with taste.
> 
> Aiming for the 2oz shot in 30 secs really threw me to begin with. It was a bit of a moment of clarity for me when I first started measuring by weight, my shots improved dramatically.


You have made me a wiser man  After looking on Youtube and read on various sites, I thought 2oz @ ~ 25second was the only right thing.



garydyke1 said:


> Why is volume important ?


I previously thought that it was important.

Now I am close.

18.2g in - 32g out @ 29 seconds .

What I find a bit negative is if I split the shoot into two glass it will be a tiny small amount to drink for each person.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

David_Sweden said:


> I previously thought that it was important.
> 
> Now I am close.
> 
> ...


But the intensity of flavour will still be there


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> But the intensity of flavour will still be there


Yes it's sure is. Our else I can make a americano for those ho want more .

Is it a bad idea to fill the filter with 19g (or more?) and thus get more output?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Doubtful your basket will accept 19 g paired with a grind coarse enough for a sensible flow rate . Unless you opt for a VST 18g or 20g basket


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Agree with gary get a vst.


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

It's true, it was not good when I tried with 19g.

How much can I charge a 18g and 20g basket?

Do you recommend VST? Or does it works well with other manufacturers?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The hole size and basket size are optimised with the stated doses in mind, but, the VST 18g will work well enough with 17-19g, coffee dependant. The 20g VST 19-21g, coffee dependant. VST also do a 22g basket.

When I say coffee dependant I mean such issues as bean density, roast profile etc.


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> The hole size and basket size are optimised with the stated doses in mind, but, the VST 18g will work well enough with 17-19g, coffee dependant. The 20g VST 19-21g, coffee dependant. VST also do a 22g basket.
> 
> When I say coffee dependant I mean such issues as bean density, roast profile etc.


Thanks for the explanation!

I've been looking around in web-stores here in Sweden but can not find VST baskets here







.

Do you have any suggestions for a good web store in the UK selling VST?

Maybe there are vst baskets in German web stores. I'll see if I can find someone there too.

20g basket, I think will be good for me.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

David_Sweden said:


> Thanks for the explanation!
> 
> I've been looking around in web-stores here in Sweden but can not find VST baskets here
> 
> ...


Square mile , has bean , coffee hit


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Square mile , has bean , coffee hit


Does the 20g vst filter basket fit in the original portafilter-handle?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Depends on the handle ....


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Depends on the handle ....


What I was wondering was if it fits Expobar handle.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Does in mine , brewtus double spout one


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I have some nice pro-Gaggia baskets which allow to dose slightly more. I couldn't find VSTs over here and postage was more than the cost and I always found the Gaggia baskets (made by Gaggia Española) very good. I did buy some VSTs too and they are worth the money as you get consistant pour. The Gaggia's are good too though.


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## David_Sweden (Oct 16, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Does in mine , brewtus double spout one


20g VST will be a Christmas present to myself .


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