# The smash it up and give in phase?



## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

So is the 'what have I wasted my money on - I'm going to smash all this stuff up and go back to N**cafe' phase something most people go through in the beginning, when all the coffee output they come up with ends up getting chucked down the sink because it tastes like licking the underside of an old bus? Just asking for a friend?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It would help us if we a bit more information as to what the issues are

Which coffee

How is it being made (brew method)

What ratios

What temp

So many variables to help with, but without info it is somewhat difficult


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

Thanks, yes I will do, just waiting for some more scales to arrive, I've killed the old ones, and I've ordered some new beans from Compass, so as soon as they've arrived I'll try again and post the details and what I'm getting



coffeechap said:


> It would help us if we a bit more information as to what the issues are
> 
> Which coffee
> 
> ...


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Stick with it - you'll get there in the end. I've had a frustrating weekend trying to get to grips with my setup and getting an ok cup followed by a nothing special cup followed by a "well that was disappointing" cup. After following advice on here I altered a couple of things and produced a rather tasty offering early today.

Step away from the N**cafe!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Love that phase it's a giggle,haha kenco if anything


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

It can be a bit of a learning curve to begin with but when everything clicks you'll realise it was all worth it.

What machine & grinder do you have?


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

The mystic powers make me suspect that @DaveTee has a Classic.

Well, actually it's this thread

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?43082-Well-this-could-get-expensive!

So, assuming no PID, temperature surfing might be in order, and actions to stop channeling (grind, tamping etc)


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

really could be numerous things so please tell us what you do motions you go through. Been there myself still not sussed it yet.


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

I was impressed by your mystic powers there for a moment!

So yes, I have a Classic with 9 bar mod and a Fiorenzato T80 grinder, (which I just got). I have a bottomless portafilter.

Problem is, I'm measuring 20 grams of ground bean, stirring with toothpick and then tamper with a calibrated 30Lbs tamper (one press down and a swift polishing turn). But 40 grams of coffee take only about 15 seconds, the output takes a little while to come together in the middle also. I've set the grinder so the burrs touch and then backed it off a bit.

I leave the Classic about 20 mins to heat up and leave the portafilter in place to heat up.



AndyDClements said:


> The mystic powers make me suspect that @DaveTee has a Classic.
> 
> Well, actually it's this thread
> 
> ...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

What happens when you go coarser?


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

Humm, not sure, I can give that a go tomorrow - the machine's at work so not got it at hand



MWJB said:


> What happens when you go coarser?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I had a quite a down phase last year in spring with the Nicaragua Pacamara beans from Hasbean - guess there were a couple of other unhappy people trying to make espresso from them

everything was incredibly sour on the first day until I went very very fine and hot hot hooot

so it was frustrating at first but it was not a show stopper..more like a learning opportunity


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Two items come to mind.

Is this a new grinder or new to you ? if the second one are the burrs sharp, is it clean inside or is there stale grounds and oil inside the grinder ?

If you are using a 20 gm basket and the machine does not have a PID you will struggle to get a good cup of coffee.

The reason being that the boiler is very small and drawing 40 ml of water through it will cool the boiler down considerably as the fresh cool water is drawn in by the pump and the coffee will be brewing at a low temperature = crap coffee.

Try using a smaller basket eg 16 gm and see what difference it makes, also make sure the M/ch has been on for 30 mins to thoroughly warm up.

Also possibly brew stat getting "lazy"


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Frustration phase is completely normal.

You'll find a bean that is easy to extract and you'll feel better. Coffee Compass Brighton Lanes is my usual recommendation for super easy.

Money spent on a half day training with Glenn is a shrewd investment.

Keep going. It will come good.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

When you say burrs nearly touching did you check that they were touching by rotating lower burr via it's nut ? You may need to completely unscrew the adjuster and clean the threads so that they can touch.

I have a flat burr grinder that makes a noise that some might call chirps when they get close but they aren't actually touching.

Some one may ask you to post a photo of the burrs - the top one on the adjuster should be ok for that.

John

-


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

Hey, thanks for the advice, I think I will go down the PID route - it's sitting in my Ebay basket already!

The grinder is second hand, the burrs look OK but to be honest, I'm not sure if it would be obvious to my untrained eye if they weren't OK. I can get a new set for about 30 quid so probably worth a try. The grinder had all been cleaned out before I got it so I don't think there's anything lurking in there.

I'll certainly try a smaller basket too thanks



El carajillo said:


> Two items come to mind.
> 
> Is this a new grinder or new to you ? if the second one are the burrs sharp, is it clean inside or is there stale grounds and oil inside the grinder ?
> 
> ...


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

Thanks John,

I'll have another look at the burrs and maybe take it apart to see what's going on, I'll also get a couple of photos - I'm not entirely sure what I should be looking for and at!



ajohn said:


> When you say burrs nearly touching did you check that they were touching by rotating lower burr via it's nut ? You may need to completely unscrew the adjuster and clean the threads so that they can touch.
> 
> I have a flat burr grinder that makes a noise that some might call chirps when they get close but they aren't actually touching.
> 
> ...


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> Two items come to mind.
> 
> Is this a new grinder or new to you ? if the second one are the burrs sharp, is it clean inside or is there stale grounds and oil inside the grinder ?
> 
> ...


This is excellent advice. I found using a smaller basket on the Classic made all the difference to my shot quality.

The coffee learning curve is so steep....!


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

I've ordered a smaller bottomless from Happy Donkey, so hoping that makes a good difference - it makes sense that it would, so fingers crossed!

It is a steep learning curve, and on the surface, it looks so simple! With hindsight I may have not have bothered if I'd have realised this, which is pretty much the case with most things I seem to embark upon in life!



spoxehub said:


> This is excellent advice. I found using a smaller basket on the Classic made all the difference to my shot quality.
> 
> The coffee learning curve is so steep....!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

DavTee said:


> I've ordered a smaller bottomless from Happy Donkey, so hoping that makes a good difference - it makes sense that it would, so fingers crossed!
> 
> It is a steep learning curve, and on the surface, it looks so simple! With hindsight I may have not have bothered if I'd have realised this, which is pretty much the case with most things I seem to embark upon in life!


Stick with it Dave, we have all been through the "why did I start this / why did I bother -------" Look at it like booking a holiday= all the hassle booking, cramped seats on the plane= Then sitting on a beach with a nice cold beer







.

Initially there are so many things to try and get right but after a while they just become (fairly) natural. Think of all the good coffee to come.


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

I shall certainly stick at it thanks - I'm nothing if not tenacious! I'd imagine it'll end up costing as much as a luxury holiday in the Bahamas as well







!



El carajillo said:


> Stick with it Dave, we have all been through the "why did I start this / why did I bother -------" Look at it like booking a holiday= all the hassle booking, cramped seats on the plane= Then sitting on a beach with a nice cold beer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavTee said:


> So is the 'what have I wasted my money on - I'm going to smash all this stuff up and go back to N**cafe' phase something most people go through in the beginning, when all the coffee output they come up with ends up getting chucked down the sink because it tastes like licking the underside of an old bus? Just asking for a friend?


Have you tried different coffee btw, some types or roast may just not be to your taste


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## DavTee (Oct 26, 2017)

I've ordered some new ones from Compass, my last ones were from Pact. I think I should probably find one and stick to it so the beans aren't a variable - but they all sound so tempting from the descriptions!



Mrboots2u said:


> Have you tried different coffee btw, some types or roast may just not be to your taste


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