# A few (hopefully) quick questions on the Gaggia Classic and Iberital MC2 setup



## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi all,

Recently delved into the OCD world of Espresso perfectionism. I note that Caffeine plus OCD is a naturally problematic relationship... My Sicilian g/f already thinks I'm totally nuts... After many years of drinking Illy in my Classic I decided to 'man up' and do what everyone strongly advises from the start....a grinder.

So in came an MC2, 4x250g of coffee, a naked portafilter and a couple of 2oz shot glasses from happydonkey (thanks to them, A*)

Anyway, after many hours of reading here there and everywhere I have a few questions / confirmation requirements that I would really appreciate some senior help on.

1) *Bean storage:* (to avoid opening a kettle of worms on this as I know there's much debate) . I live in a flat. As my g/f is Sicilian. She gets angry a lot. If its not hot, she gets angry. Therefore flat is at 20oC-25oC or more as standard. Ergo, storing beans 3x250g bags is a concern. I am proposing to stick some sellotape over the one way valve and place them in the bottom of the freezer, probably in a tupperware (but unopened from original packaging).... does anyone do this, is this a bad idea.... I'm between that and finding a drafty dark spot near the front door which might come in at 15degC. The rest has just been shoved in the hopper for the time being to appease her in the mornings (not great I know, but its a process)

2) *Using a naked Portafilter: *so after actually taking a second or two to think, I find that a double basket in a naked portafilter doesn't really seem to go into my 2x2oz shot glasses for measuring purposes.... given all the chat is about doubles, do people generally not use their naked p/f's to calibrate fluid levels in glasses?  Or have people found 4oz glasses with 2oz lines to work with , and I've just n00bishly bought the wrong kit - if so where from? I've found myself back on the doublespouter for doubles and using the naked for the single basket pour.... and calibration of the grind timer to push out about 7g a go.

3) *Pulling Singles:* from reading around this seems not to be the norm. However, in combination with point two, I find i need to use the single basket in the naked p/f to monitor the colour and pour of the shot and have it pop into the 2oz glass (meniscus of the liquid up to the 1oz line, crema above) - All in all, having the shot glasses for less than 24 hours I'm already getting annoyed by this volume measuring... I saw somewhere. From reading around I seem to have two varying times that a single to take. A double, seems to be unanimous at around 25-30s to pour, and some say the same time should be for a single (albeit with 7g rather than 14g ish)...however I did read somewhere that it should take more like 15s with a single...so I'm a little confused.

4) *Scales:* Due to my above concerns I'm thinking of conducting my self on grams of coffee to grams of liquid extraction over the agreed timescale in order to correctly dial the ground (or at least have it ball park as it evolves). Does anyone know of a good thin set of micro scales that would fit under the appropriate vessel on the drip tray of the Gaggia Classic (without breaking at the slightest smattering of a rogue jet)

5) *Iberital MC2 Ruler:* There is some form of ruler on the hopper and I notice as the grind settings are altered the hopper rotates... is there any more to it than this...with no marks or grooves there doesn't appear to be any way of benchmarking etc with out adding Tippex marks or something.... have I missed something?

6) *Residual Grounds:* I notice in the plastic shoot a couple of g's get left behind. Has anyone come up with a good way of getting these out? This seems to cause a problem with the weigh your beans first method over the weigh your grounds method. Either way at the end I need them out as I'd rather them not be in my next pull. Does the plastic come away...or is there anything better than picking the whole thing up and shaking???

7) *Taste:* I think I may be asking an idiotic question here but I'm trying to get the difference between sour and bitter... can anyone help me out? Sour is like lemon...but I also thought lemon was bitter.... which helps me not. Should I try a 5sec pour and a 50s pour to see if I can get the difference?

Really appreciate your input, and given the amount of questions I hope it may help others who follow....

Cheers,

Delfs


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi Delfs,

I'll try to quickly answer some of the questions:-

1) I wouldn't use the freezer, and I probably wouldn't hold onto that many beans at once (just buy as you go instead).

Don't tape up the valve either (helps CO2 escape and helps prevent oxidation). I think concerning yourself with the temperature of the flat is a bit OCD mate (sorry, I might be wrong there?). I'd just store them in the bag, in a dark cupboard by your machine (not above the oven







).

2, 3, 4) measure by weight not volume, I would be more concerned with how it tastes (buy a cheap jewelers scales off e-bay - 0.1g measurements - about £5)

A good starting point is a ratio of 1.6 (e.g. 18g dry coffee in X 1.6 = 28.8g liquid out). This works well for most coffee beans.

weight is a much more consistent way of measuring than volume.

5) Putting a mark on the case/hopper is probably your best bet with the MC2 (the stepless adjustment is enormous) - can change a couple of turns between beans.

The ruler is hopeless.

6) I never figured out a decent way (other than using a toothbrush). You generally get more static with a doserless design. I found taking off the hopper lid, then pushing it on again really quick (pressure) will force another 1/2gram or so out of the chute.

Unfortunately you will get about 1g retention with an MC2 period!

7) Try the above (1.6 ratio) then vary one thing at a time (e.g dose size, time, weight of liquid). You will soon find a preference.

I've never really understood the sour/bitter thing either - just appreciate when it tastes nice, and when it tastes terrible.

Hope that helps a bit anyways

Regards

Andy


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Delfi said:


> I live in a flat. As my g/f is Sicilian. She gets angry a lot. If its not hot, she gets angry. Therefore flat is at 20oC-25oC or more as standard.


This made me LOL


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Delfi said:


> 6) *Residual Grounds:* I notice in the plastic shoot a couple of g's get left behind. Has anyone come up with a good way of getting these out?
> 
> 7) *Taste:* I think I may be asking an idiotic question here but I'm trying to get the difference between sour and bitter... can anyone help me out? Sour is like lemon...but I also thought lemon was bitter....


6. A hoover

7. Eat a dark green celery leaf - very very bitter

Lime juice is more sour than lemon if you ask me


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## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> This made me LOL


You should see what happens when she doesn't get Espresso in the mornings... I'm trying to educate her in why waiting an extra 2mins to do it properly is worth while

....(but she's great most of the time)


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## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

aphelion said:


> Hi Delfs,
> 
> I'll try to quickly answer some of the questions:-
> 
> ...


Cheers Andy

....but 18g dry coffee fits a dbl portafilter.... and 28.8g liquid by vol is about 1oz of coffee.... Have I missed something here...doesnt that mean your pulling a double shot amount of coffee and considering a single amount as an output? I thought 7g coffee made approx 1 shot aka 1oz aka 30ml aka ~30g?

This is where I'm missing a trick...


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Delfi said:


> Cheers Andy
> 
> ....but 18g dry coffee fits a dbl portafilter.... and 28.8g liquid by vol is about 1oz of coffee.... Have I missed something here...doesnt that mean your pulling a double shot amount of coffee and considering a single amount as an output? I thought 7g coffee made approx 1 shot aka 1oz aka 30ml aka ~30g?
> 
> This is where I'm missing a trick...


Yep, more or less..I only ever use the double basket.

I recommend 1.6 ratio as a starting point, but its not definitive..

You will get less liquid, but I don't really work by volume at all.

1oz..2oz..its all about the taste for me.

experiment!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

1 Imperial fluid ounce = 28.4130742 millilitres

1 ml = 1g is because of the density of water which is 1 g/ml at *4 C.*

Espresso isnt water. It contains more solids. Espresso isnt 4celcius, more like 70celcius when it hits your cup.

Crema also affects perception of volume.

All in all weighing the output is much more accurate way of measuring espresso.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> 1 Imperial fluid ounce = 28.4130742 millilitres
> 
> 1 ml = 1g is because of the density of water which is 1 g/ml at *4 C.*
> 
> ...


Yep, what he said!


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## Thufir (Jan 27, 2013)

How much attention should be paid to time of pull?

I get quite large variations but some of my better tasting shots are when I get very close on weight ratio.

This mornings cup, after doing a lighter tamp, was very nice, and produced the right output weight in only 19 seconds. If I over tamp I can easily tell its over extracted and it takes almost twice as long to reach the desired weight.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

The original poster needs to tell more funny stories about the girlfriend. Mine is partly Italian, but I think she's spent long enough in London to not need o be kept above a certain temperature.

7. Sour tastes of acid, like vinegar or lemon juice. Bitter tastes like paracetamol or hairspray (not recommended). It's hard to pour sour shots with dark roast beans like Happy Donkey.

Keep those beans in the freezer!

Roddy


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

..........


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