# Genecafe CBR 1200 Roaster



## froggystyle

Well the roaster is all set up in its new home, and i have named it Bertha!

Had a small issue, but a 30 minute phone call to Davec and all is well, thanks Dave.

Tomorrow night i need to do a little bit more tinkering then i can hopefully fire off a roast.

Will stick some pics up tomorrow.


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## froggystyle

Managed to fire up the beast tonight, did a batch of Colombian something to test it, no photos of finished beans as they were not that great, need to get my head around this now after using its little brother for over a year, it's a totally different roasting experience and you need to be on the ball more...

Bertha in action.


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## Lozzer87

That looks awesome.


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## froggystyle

And it sounds awesome when you fire it up...

Need to sort the exhaust out, get some trim round the benches to tidy them up, fit some shelves for me beans mon and sort the cooling exhaust also, it spat chaff out all over the place!

Really chuffed with it though, i know i am going to get some great beans from it, just need to fire through some first to better understand what it can do.


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## Lozzer87

Yeh I'm sure after a few decent attempts you will start getting great results. Does this come with its own software?


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## aaroncornish

Looking good froggy! Looking forward to buying my first bag


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## froggystyle

No software, it doesn't link up to anything (i was just cathing up on the forum) the fancy display on the front is a little redundant when your roasting, it has a standard probe type thermometer on the side of the drum that you use, this gives you a true reading of what the temp inside the drum is doing, its funny as you set the temp for say 238 like the little gene, but when you check the probe you can see your only really at 200.... so it gos to show how far out the temps actually are...

Itching to do another roast tomorrow night now!


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## froggystyle

aaroncornish said:


> Looking good froggy! Looking forward to buying my first bag


That is some time off my friend.


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## johnealey

950g of something Rave for your first roast Froggy?

Interesting the difference in temperatures, helps to explain a few things even though I know the little gene takes its temp reading from the exhaust side.

And yes will openly admit to "coveting thy neighbours roaster" 

John


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## froggystyle

No it was 1kg from the bella barista bulk buy, i like rave but it slightly annoys me why they only sell 950g...


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## Lozzer87

I hope you have your roasting shed heavenly locked. Have you ever roasted on any other larger roasters to compare to?


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## Lozzer87

Heavenly, blinking iPhone predictive. Meant to be heavily


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## ronsil

That machine setup is looking really nice.

Where is it actually sited. Is it in a garage or in a garden chalet.?

If it is exterior to the House you'll need to watch the ambient temp in the winter, frosts etc. It'll play havoc with your profiles.


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## "coffee 4/1"

coffee roasting haven, beautiful, think you need shed alarm froggy,


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## johnealey

BB of course, knew I'd got some somewhere, the kenya kigutha batch came in them!

950G annoys me also as always end up either with a melange or buying another 950g....oh, i think I see what they doing now, could be a long time before i get back to a round number 

C'mon then pictures and what roasted for how long etc

John


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## froggystyle

Yes, big locks, internal hinges and a sensor linked into the house....


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## froggystyle

ronsil said:


> That machine setup is looking really nice.
> 
> Where is it actually sited. Is it in a garage or in a garden chalet.?
> 
> If it is exterior to the House you'll need to watch the ambient temp in the winter, frosts etc. It'll play havoc with your profiles.


Nice big shed Ron out the back, i plan to insulate at the end of the summer, before i roast i will turn a heater on to warm up the shed and fingers crossed i can get a nice stable temp.


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## DavecUK

Just a tip

Don't have an exhaust longer than you need and don't point it straight out horizontally without something at the end e.g. 90 degree elbow, or an end plate to prevent air blowing in, but freely allow air out. Hopefully you have the end of the pipe pointing downwards, but just in case.

Also I know it goes against the grain, but if you can the shortest ducting pipe is always better....so it might be worth rethinking the position of the roaster and trimming the pipe....it will probably work fine as it is, but usually shorter is better.


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## froggystyle

That is tonight's job Dave, was going to push it straight out the rear wall above the exhaust, however wife has housed one of those plastic green houses right behind the shed...

Have been thinking about going out the roof with a little chimney, but not sure, cant go out the left hand wall as it sits about 6 inch away from a fence...


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## Ian Clayton

Lovely little setup you have there


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## iroko

Looking good, hope It doesn't take to long to get to grips with.


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## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> That is tonight's job Dave, was going to push it straight out the rear wall above the exhaust, however wife has housed one of those plastic green houses right behind the shed...
> 
> Have been thinking about going out the roof with a little chimney, but not sure, cant go out the left hand wall as it sits about 6 inch away from a fence...


You could go out of the roof, with a little weather hat thingy on top of the exhaust...however, I do prefer a side exit, at least all the crap doesn't drop back into the chaff collector and you're not cutting a hole in the roof!!


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## Yes Row

Why does it have a satalite dish?


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## Lozzer87

How are you getting on with the roaster froggy?


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## froggystyle

Not bad, some beans are a little harder to roast, brazilians seem to scorch very easily, have tried 800g and still the same, plus the chaff doesnt want to lift.

The usual MM is great to roast.

Need to get in there tonight/tomorrow and fire some more off.


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## froggystyle

Just fired another 4 roasts off, really struggling, cant seem to get the internal temp over 200c which i believe is wrong, should bee getting towards 220c!


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## Lozzer87

Have you tasted any of the beans you have roasted yet froggy?


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## froggystyle

yup, not great.

Had a chat tonight with another owner who roasts for his cafe down south, talked about what he does and it seems mine is not getting a high enough temp towards the end of the roast, need to be getting it above 200c after 10-12 minutes, i struggle to get it to 200c at the minute.

Couple of things i need to sort when i get chance, insulate my shed, get a heater and warm the shed before roasting and also try to direct the vent pipe to stop air getting back down into the roaster.

With a garden to sort on Saturday and the rave day on Sunday i guess i will not be roasting for a few more days.


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## Lozzer87

I'm sure it will all come together soon enough. What's the max temp the gene is meant to be capable of heating up to? Surely it should get to 200c easily enough?


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## DavecUK

Shouldn't need to insulate shed.


Check what your mains voltage is before roasting (at the roaster socket) and what it is once roasting.

Check the power consumption of the roaster

Ensure the wind doesn't blow straight down the vent pipe you have, or angle the exit downwards

What does your exit temp on the panel show, vs the chamber temp

What temp are you setting the roaster to

Are you warming up the roaster to 230 before roasting

Is the roaster cycling the heating element before the temperature you set is reached on the panel (will be obvious if it is when an energy monitor is installed..). Does it only do it with chaff, or when there is no chaff

Are you roasting 1kg of beans

Is chaff blocking the exit to the chamber (if so the software will hold it at 200, as shown on panel, until it clears, then it will start rising again)


You need a 3 pin to that blue socket converter lead and a Maplin energy meter like this. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Plug-Power-Energy-Monitor-Meter/dp/B000Q7PJGW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225021273&sr=1-4

Without knowing any of this stuff it's very difficult to help. Once your set up with the answers to all the above...you can always give me a call if you want to.


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## froggystyle

Hi Dave,

1. Getting low 240 volts when machine is running both heaters.

2. Getting above 3kw when fully roasting, about 3.1kw to 3.2kw.

3. Pipe is angled downwards outside.

4. When roasting, i am getting the exit temp on the display, usually about 238c, no problems there i think.

5. Usually roast at about 236-238c.

6. Yup full pre heat is done till it reaches the 230c, then injecting beans as per the manual.

7. No cycling on the elements before set temp is reached, its full on till 238c is reached, then it begins switching.

8. Most of my roasts have been 1kg, have tried a couple at 800g and even 500g to see if this makes any difference, no change really in terms of temp.

9. No chaff blockage, not really lifting enough chaff off because i cant get the chamber heat over the 200c so its staying on the bean mostly.

The one weakness i think i have is the extension lead, its very long, i need to measure up and fit one that is the correct length, would you advise to fit the blue 3 pin socket to this new lead then?

I have an internal temp reader in the shed, when i start roasting the ambient temp is about 15c, by halfway through the first roast i am usually up to 30c +

I have had the analogue reader display over 200c once or twice, but this comes very late, and takes at least three roasts, so i don't think there is anything wrong with the machine.


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## DavecUK

if you are drawing 3.1Kw that's plenty, i'm not sure what low 240s mean though. I was going to reply, but there is not the detail I needed in the answers you have given and I could make lots of assumptions (which could be wrong). It's also difficult to deal with this in a massive Q&A back and forth. *The offer still stands, if you want to call me and talk it through.*


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## froggystyle

Pm me your number again Dave, i will give you a call tomorrow night if thats ok?


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## Lozzer87

Have you managed to make any upgrades to the shed yet froggy? Also any improvements on your roasts yet?


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## froggystyle

Missed this, yeah getting better results now, before i had the door open in the shed as it didnt stay shut, have put a latch on the inside now so can keep it closed.

With the warm weather we have had the last week or so its been a lot better, getting the temp up to 210c easy enough, results are improved a lot.

Deffo going to have to get a heater for the shed though, warm it up when the temp drops.

Happy roasting at last!


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## Lozzer87

Glad you are finally getting some good results. Must be a great feeling now you are getting results. Are you finding it a big learning curve compared to the smaller gene?


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## froggystyle

errrr not really now i have fired a few roasts through, same principles, but with the added bonus of a temp probe inside the drum to give you a true reading of what's happening.

Do you get better results, yeah i think so, more even colour to the beans, lifts more chaff.

Factor in the fact you dump beans into a ccooling chamber then pre-heat and dump your next batch in before the others have cooled makes it a lot more productive.

I will say though this machine is not really suited to the home user unless you can shift some beans elsewhere, i have about 6kg stacked up, will more than likely give some away to people at work who buy from a supermarket, its still a step up for them though.

Need to get my sh*t together now and get this stall up and going to sell some beans!


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## Lozzer87

What's the minimum you can roast in it?


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## froggystyle

think it says 200-300g but i have only done 500g in it.

the difficult part is justifying the £4k price tag...


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## Lozzer87

Online coffee roasting business? Lol


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## froggystyle

its a nice thought, but i think your going to struggle going up against the big boys with this machine.

Think more local business's and markets to those that are used to buying from the supermarkets, that the place to aim i feel.


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## froggystyle

One thing i forgot to mention, this has two heater elements, cant remember off the top of my head what power each is (Davec?) but you can turn each off anytime you like, thus dropping the heat going into the chamber...

Handy if you want to lower heat at first crack for a few minutes.


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## Lozzer87

Yeh that's a good place to start I guess. You have to start somewhere and if you start building up a bit of local business and support you never know how far you

might get. My local roaster/coffee shop, he has a small roaster in the back of his shop and slowly is building up a decent name for himself and has just bought himself a 5kg probat.


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## froggystyle

Everyone starts somewhere.....


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## Lozzer87

Yeh precisely


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## froggystyle

It all started here......

oh hang on, someone might have already bagged that one.


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## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> Factor in the fact you dump beans into a ccooling chamber then pre-heat and dump your next batch in before the others have cooled makes it a lot more productive.
> 
> I will say though this machine is not really suited to the home user unless you can shift some beans elsewhere, i have about 6kg stacked up, will more than likely give some away to people at work who buy from a supermarket, its still a step up for them though.
> 
> Need to get my sh*t together now and get this stall up and going to sell some beans!


The cooler weather shouldn't have been a problem at all for you....I roasted all through the winter with no problem in an unheated workshop/garage and the garage door wide open. Certainly being able to back to back roast (as the reheat is so fast after you dump) is a huge advantage to roasters that can't, especially those that run cooling in the drum as it pretty much doubles your production rate..Heating elements are about 1Kw and 2 Kw respectively....Just remember it switches the 2Kw element, not the 1Kw one, so if you do switch the small element off during the roast, make very sure the big one isn't going to switch off!

As for home roasters/users, I would slightly disagree on that point....there are a few situations when it could make sense.

1. If you are a very heavy coffee user (although it's barely justifiable)

2. If you roast for extended family

3. if you get just 2 or 3 other people happy to buy your coffee/roast share

In those cases, you get to use the roaster enough, perhaps cover some of the cost..........the critical thing it's a low usage 1kg roaster and one you will find very easy to sell. you could buy such a roaster for "home" use and use it for7-10 years. as it will only have had around 700 - 1200kg through it during the whole period, you are likely to get much of what you paid back when you sell it.

*Here is a very pessimistic estimate.* Say you only get 3K back for it after 7 years.* If you shared your roasts *and made £2 per Kilo, roasting 3kg per week that's about 1050kg. if you drank 1Kg per week, that's around £1400. If the roaster cost £4200, then I'd say you were in good shape....even if you think you would only get 2.5K for the roaster used, that's still only £300 it's cost you to own it for 7 years. I have not even factored in the cost savings for your personal coffee!

There won't be loads of these roasters on the market used....anyone who buys one to start a business, once they get more customers will move to a larger roaster within a year or so....but they will normally keep the 1kg roaster for smaller orders, or to roast part of a blend in. e.g. 5kg in one roaster and 1kg in the other. etc..


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## froggystyle

Been roasting!

Love this roaster, love firing off 1kg batches!


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## stevet

Looks fantastic!


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## SteveP

Hello everyone. First post on here so please excuse any mistakes or ignorance on my part. Been reading lots of posts with interest and just wondered if anyone can give me a little advice regarding roasting with the CBR 1200. I have fired off a few roasts which have resulted in okay coffee but lacking any acidity or distinguishing flavours. Currently experimenting with some Brazil and Guatemala from Small Batch Roasting. Any tips would be gratefully received.


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## froggystyle

What temps/times are you roasting to?


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## SteveP

froggystyle said:


> What temps/times are you roasting to?


Dropping beans at 230 deg although a few seem to get scorched at that temp. Setting panel temp to 238 deg, turning heater 2 off at about 215 deg drum temp and roasting for 15 to 16 mins. The beans either are too under developed, bland with lots of chaff or baked and tasting like ash. Can't seem to get the happy medium. Is there anything I can try to improve the roast?


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## DavecUK

Check it out with a plugin wattmeter, that your heater 2 is the 1kw one and not the 2Kw one, possibly they have changed the way round they are wiring them. You really need to provide your full roast logs and proper information..All I know is your roasting some unspecified Brazilian and Guatamalan (who knows how they are processed), with some unspecified power/mains voltage, *making a huge assumption you are actually roasting a full kilo* and not less....with no roast log at all.

Then tasting at some unspecified interval, using some unspecified prep method. In all honesty, it feels like you work for MI5 and don't want to divulge any information if you can avoid it.


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## SteveP

Hi Dave. Sorry for the lack of info....I wasn't sure if anyone would read the post as it was from over a year ago. Anyway, yes, I am roasting 1kg. Beans are Guatemala Fancy SHB - Finca San Francisco Bourbon...wet processed and harvested 2015. Green bean suppler is Small Batch Roasting and they say to roast no darker than full city. I set the panel temperature at 238 deg and drop the beans at 230 which as far as I can tell cannot be changed. A dozen or so beans seem to burn at this temp though. The drum temp when dropping is around 210.

I manually log the temperatures as I don't think there is an app available for the CBNR1200. Is the correct? so drum temperature are as follows:

2 mins: 160

4 mins: 170

6 mins: 180

8 mins: 185

10 mins: 200

12 mins: 210

14 mins: 215

16 mins: 220

I turned heater 2 off at 14 mins and ended the roast at 16 mins. This particular roast was way to dark. Obviously roasted for too long. However, when I end a roast around 15 mins the beans seem under developed and lots of chef is still on the beans.

I have checked the wiring for the heaters as you suggested and they seem fine.

I hope this provides a bit more info for you.

Many thanks


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## DavecUK

What's the mains voltage where you are roasting (no load)

What's the voltage drop once you start roasting

how many watts is the roaster drawing during the roast

Are the temperatures shown for the analogue gauge

What temperatures is the panel showing

Are the heating elements switching on and off during the roast before the preset temperature is reached

Is the set temp of 238 ever being reached on the front panel and when

What was the ambient temperature

Was it the first roast of the day or do subsequent roasts give the same result

Are these problems/perfomance for all coffees, or just certain coffees

Still need lots and lots of information

There is always the very easy option of full power control (I have modified mine in this way), it will allow you to control the heaters to a very fine level and profile exactly as you want to during the roast.


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## SteveP

Hi Dave

Mains voltage with no load appears to be 245 and then 236/237 when roasting.

The temperatures I gave are for the analogue gauge. The temperatures for the panel are as follows:

2 mins: 210

4 mins: 215

6 mins: 223

8 mins: 233

10 mins: 235

12 mins: 234

14 mins 226

the 238 temperature on the panel is reached...usually around the 11 minute mark. The first roast of the day is a little slower in reaching certain temperatures but not a lot of difference. The temperatures I have given you are from 3rd roast of the day. The ambient temperature was 23 deg. I normally switch heater 2 off around 13 to 14 minutes when the analogue gauge shows 215 deg. This is after the pre set temperature of 238 deg on the panel has been reached and is then hovering around 235 to 237 deg.

Can I ask what the full power control involves? Is this something that is relatively straight forward to do?

Many thanks

SteveP


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## froggystyle

In the summer months i turn off heater one when i hit 215-220.

1st roast of the day is always a bit late to the party.


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## DavecUK

Also try setting a lower front panel temperature just a few degrees.

The power control involves using an SCR power controller (20 or less), heatsink and 100k ohm potentiometer (in the case of the Kemo module), search on this forum, I wrote about it some time ago now. You use a 100Kohm with the kemo 4kw module instead of the 500 kohm pot supplied to give you nice fine control between about 2000W and 3200W approx, rather than coarse control from 0 to 3.2kw given by a 500 k ohm pot.

It's an easy mod to do, fully reversible and should cost no more than £30. It allows you to vary the power to the heating element rather than using on/off control and achieve any profile you like, including slowing down the rate of rise etc..Highly recommend you do the mod. it significantly improves the roasts and will probably double the life of the heating element as well!


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## DavecUK

Just out of interest did you buy it from Bella Barista?


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## SteveP

I did Dave, yes.


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## SteveP

Dave, with regard to the SCR power controller, would this be something I can get an electrician to do as I have to admit I doubt this is something I could turn my hand to. It does appear to be something well worth doing.


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## DavecUK

SteveP said:


> Dave, with regard to the SCR power controller, would this be something I can get an electrician to do as I have to admit I doubt this is something I could turn my hand to. It does appear to be something well worth doing.


Someone with basic electrical knowledge, can crimp mains connectors,knows what a 100 k Ohm pot is, can use a multimeter properly and has basic theory...yes no problem at all. A standard house electrician should have the required knowledge and tools. They also need to ensure the module has a heat sink attached, it doesn't dissipate much power, but it does need a heat sink able to handle about 40W I think (from memory). I bought some from china for a few pounds.


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