# Dual Boiler Lever machine launched



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I can finally talk about this now, a new dual boiler lever machine has been launched Vostok lever, by ACS. In addition to dual boilers it also has special heated groups with PID controlled heaters as well as PID controlled steam and brew boilers and the ability to have different pre-infusion pressures. It's currently a 3 group machine, but I have been discussing the production of a 1 group machine with them for the domestic market.

This really addresses the 2 main issues of lever machines, that of steaming and brewing using the same boiler and especially for smaller boilers and the inability to brew at selectable stable brew temperatures shot after shot.

ACS (Advanced Coffee Solution) is the new name for the company that made the Vesuvius machine.









It's not using the same group as on the Bosco machines.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Can't find anything online

Looks great though,


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Fevmeister said:


> Can't find anything online
> 
> Looks great though,


You won't just yet.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dave, how do you see Pid fitting in with a lever machine, hang on, I am presuming that it also does not run a thermosyphon loop?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Dave, how do you see Pid fitting in with a lever machine, hang on, I am presuming that it also does not run a thermosyphon loop?


That's absolutely correct Dave, group and brew boiler are independently kept at the correct (selected) temperatures.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Big beefy brew head - it'll certainly have presence in a domestic setting !


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi Dave

Fascinating and couldn't have come at a more opportune moment. Don't suppose they also thinking of a two group perchance.

Any ideas on who going to distrubute in the uk and any idea of ballpark prices ( usual caveats applying of course).

As to the name thought I recognised the handles on the steam and water, hmmm and sub 58mm portafilters with 3 lugs maybe?

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Moved on apace from the intitial renderings shown on the Facebook page althoguh nice to see the shape not changed too much 

John


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

johnealey said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> Fascinating and couldn't have come at a more opportune moment. Don't suppose they also thinking of a two group perchance.
> 
> Any ideas on who going to distrubute in the uk and any idea of ballpark prices ( usual caveats applying of course).


I think they will be doing a 2 group as well, no idea who will distribute in the UK or pricing. I do hope to test the 1 group when it's available though.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

the lcd screen looks top quality.

Not many of that quality on any machine

I know the gs3 screen is meant to be pretty sharp but ive not seen one in person

The more I look at it the more I like it!

It'll be around the same price as the vesuvius, to hazard a guess?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Fevmeister said:


> the lcd screen looks top quality.
> 
> Not many of that quality on any machine
> 
> ...


I really don't know about the price of a one group, I have discussed what I think it should be...personally I think they need to keep in the £2000 ballpark for a 1 group, but who knows how much it will be as the base cost of components will be high...especially if they use Vesuvius quality boilers. One of the bigger savings on a home machine would be the use of a more conventional pump (as it would be tanked or plumbed), commercial are obviously plumbed and don't need a pump.

Anyways, I think a domestic machine may be some months off.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

an L1 contender then I would assume.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

looks great cant wait to see one in the flesh


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Looks awesome. Thanks for the news.

Any idea why they chose the LSM group over the CMA/Rossi group?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Viernes said:


> Looks awesome. Thanks for the news.
> 
> Any idea why they chose the LSM group over the CMA/Rossi group?


They felt it was a better group


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Lsm = izzo?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

If someone could preorder me a one group as a present I'd really appreciate it

Thanks


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Looks great! Many thanks for the info.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

The daleks are taking over lol

I'm guessing a head to head with an L1 won't be far away then either.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

lsm= La San Marco (also seen on the izzo pompeii etc)

John


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Looks great and I am sure it is , can't understand why you need a dual boiler with a lever machine though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> Looks great and I am sure it is , can't understand why you need a dual boiler with a lever machine though.


Because it does away with the thermosyphon needed to give temp stability on single boiler. This way, the water boiler can be be set to the desired temp. It is just an alternate. If you had a syphon, and a PID,then that would be daft


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Single boiler, Dipper system! 1.15 bar = the right pressure/temp. setting.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Because it does away with the thermosyphon needed to give temp stability on single boiler. This way, the water boiler can be be set to the desired temp. It is just an alternate. If you had a syphon, and a PID,then that would be daft


that sort of makes sense I suppose , but in that vain is it also saying that a thermosyphon is poor design and isn't up too the job .

i was always under the impression the mass of the group was the biggest factor of maintaining temperature .

i am no expert but I am not so sure on all this temperature stability thing , I am guessing that if someone has gone through all this effort to maintain a constant stable temperature that it must be right , or is it ? Sorry if I sound sceptical but can't say I have been hung up too much about it , perhaps it's based around a commercial environment pulling shot after shot causing greater heat losses at the group .


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## CallumT (Aug 23, 2013)

I don't see why people straight up pass off the use of advanced temperature control and lever machines. It's all about increased consistency of the response aswell as user adjustability. Wonder if it accounts for the groups offset with ambient conditions


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Yep, agree with Callum. They are just different ways of doing the same thing. Ambient are all about technology so it will be interesting to see exactly what they are upto. The inevitable I suppose, is everyone is once again going to demand a comparison with Londinium


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

CallumT said:


> I don't see why people straight up pass off the use of advanced temperature control and lever machines. It's all about increased consistency of the response aswell as user adjustability. Wonder if it accounts for the groups offset with ambient conditions


im not straight off dismissing control , I guess I am just trying to understand the need , I have not had the L1 for long but I have to say the shots I have been able to pull have been inter Stella , and I was applying the adage of if ain't broke don't fix it .

Im not far enough down the road of my coffee journey to appreciate or understand the difference that can be obtained by tweaking and altering the temperature .


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Yep, agree with Callum. They are just different ways of doing the same thing. Ambient are all about technology so it will be interesting to see exactly what they are upto. The inevitable I suppose, is everyone is once again going to demand a comparison with Londinium


im quite sure there will be many comparisons made , for better or worse, there usually is


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> im quite sure there will be many comparisons made , for better or worse, there usually is


They both make coffee , it a fairly natural thing for comparison to happen, same when new pump machines arrive ....


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Yep, agree with Callum. They are just different ways of doing the same thing. Ambient are all about technology so it will be interesting to see exactly what they are upto. The inevitable I suppose, is everyone is once again going to demand a comparison with Londinium


Sorry to disagree Dave, they are not different ways of doing the same thing!

P.S. Also you will get a one group if you are lucky...not guaranteed.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Sorry to disagree Dave, they are not different ways of doing the same thing!
> 
> P.S. Also you will get a one group if you are lucky...not guaranteed.


Good to hear! What I meant, was that there is more than one viable system for a machine to deliver temperature controlled water to the groups, other than the respected Londinium method!


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Marko from BB going to Host on Sunday / Monday so may well be some more info next week, will be interesting to see how it pans out.

Did see a rather sailing ship version of a one group lever on a canadian site a month or so back which was puporting to be an ambient&spresso device though no pid or dual boiler that my memory can recall

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

If anyone forunate enough to be in Milan for the Host exhibition you can see the Vostok in Hall 24P, booth L05

John


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