# La Pavoni Europiccola Millenium - twisting / swivelling base



## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

La Pavoni Europiccola Millenium - twisting / swivelling base

I purchased mine new 2 years ago and its getting worse.

I've done some googling and read that it can lead to electrical safety issues, so its become somewhat more imperative to look into it. I've ordered a set of Torx screw drivers to open up the base and have a look and found some posts on other sites advising on remedies.

I just thought I'd ask if anyone here had experienced similar and what worked for you?

Cheers


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## jimbojohn55

Having thought I had solved this issue during a rebuild of my pre millennium model - I had not, all I changed were the gasketsand I did not have a "special" tool to tighten the boiler nut so it became loose shortly after and now needs attention again.

My thoughts are now fit the gaskets with a smear of silicon sealant and then tighten the boiler nut with a three legged oil filter spanner http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=three+leg+oil+filter+wrench+&_sacat=0

There is a strong chance that a new boiler to pressurestat pipe will be needed if the element lines up in a different position once the boiler nut is tightened, you will of course need a new boiler seal as well.

here is a pic of the official tool - no idea on price but expensive and you can see how much leverage is in available at the factory!


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## Rhys

Mine does this as well, but only when it gets hot. When its cold, it will move but only if I force it. I'm just careful.


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Hi chaps.

Thanks for the info. Interesting image John.

I've currently got 72 web pages open on this issue, from forum posts, amazon oil filter wrenches, and trying to find a suitable loctite threadlocker (not too strong for later removal, but strong enough when working at temperature. Is food grade necessary for its location? Smell?)

In summary the 3 methods I've found to solve this issue are

1 - oil filter wrench

2 - Hammering the brass boiler to base ring (part 7 in the parts diagram: http://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Spare-Parts/cc-33.aspx). Source: http://www.home-barista.com/levers/tightening-la-pavoni-boiler-to-base-tip-from-christopher-cara-t22968.html

3 - either 1 or 2 plus Loctite threadlocker when 1 or 2 fails.

The screw driver arrived and I've just opened her up.

Everything looks undamaged but I can see now the amount of movement taking place and its potential to cause issues.

It would be nice if it was a simple case of tightening something rather than have to dismantle & rebuild. However, taking a look at the exploded parts diagram it looks like I could be needing gaskets 4,6 & 8

I've already got the food safe grease dow corning molykote 111 for the gaskets.

I think I'll buy the Draper Expert 37871 oil filter wrench

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-37871-Filter-Wrench/dp/B0001K9U00/ref=sr_1_35?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1490444623&sr=1-35

For thread lockers, I need to continue researching this but so far... Loctite 2046 is food grade and medium strength but supposedly expensive. I've read of loctite 567 being used but smelling for a few weeks. Smell aside, the question really is whether or not the water would come into contact with the thread locker, necessitating it to be food grade, if so it has to be Loctite 2046. Proving somewhat difficult to source however.

If google doesn't help, I'll just give the espresso shop I've linked to above a call and see what they use and if they can sell me some. They are the registered pavoni repair centre so they ought to know.


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## MSM

I have started to get the same issue with my La Pavoni also.

I also read that using an oil filter wrench to tighten it a little.

I will be trying this in the next week or two and see if I can fix it.


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

One of the sites I found indicated that 2046 was restricted for sale in the UK and elsewhere.

https://www.grainger.com/product/LOCTITE-2046-Series-Medium-Strength-3HPW1

Going to loctites UK site doesn't produce any "food safe" thread lockers but their 2400 is of the right strength and states


No hazard symbols, no risk phrases & no safety phrases; "White" Material Safety Data Sheet"

http://www.loctite.co.uk/loctite-4087.htm?nodeid=8802629517313

Looks like the best bet and available for less than a fiver off amazon.

I purchased the draper tool I referred to above so I'll let you know how I get on with it.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Hi! Just bought an Europiccola recently and it suffers from the same issue... Has anyone managed to fix the problem successfully?


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## ashcroc

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi! Just bought an Europiccola recently and it suffers from the same issue... Has anyone managed to fix the problem successfully?


Post #32 of this excellent thread shows how to sort it.


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## Batian

This link is a more expensive tool to jimbojohn55 alternative.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3D-printed-La-Pavoni-boiler-spanner/123070092501?hash=item1ca78c94d5:g:sFQAAOSwtNdazR~2


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## jimbojohn55

Trick is to remove the lever - hold the pav upside down in a vice, clamping the top of the grouphead (use some cardboard to protect the chrome)

when tightening have the base at about 20Deg out before alignment - use your filter wrench to tighten down the base nut all the way as much as you can

Then turn the wrench and the base at the same time for the last 20deg - without doing this last 20deg bit it never really tightens.

another consideration is the trpe of boiler to base gaskets you use - the older black ones were a lot more dense and solid - the newer ones are softer, the problem comes in when you start putting a lot of force in the lever it squashes the front edge of the new softer gasket slightly which can lead to the base starting to become loose.

my advice that when you have the element out to do this buy yourself two boiler seals so that if the base becomes loose you can quickly have another go and do a second tightening.

I don't know that his solves the problem forever but its about as tight as I can get it - the thread lock might be worth a go or a thin layer of high temp silicon seal on the boiler to base gaskets.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Thanks for the reply! I think that's a bit too much for me to do, as I am not that mechanically inclined :-(

I think I'll just learn to live with it for now and consider doing so at some point in the future or just take it in for a service somewhere.

Thanks!


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## jimbojohn55

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks for the reply! I think that's a bit too much for me to do, as I am not that mechanically inclined :-(
> 
> I think I'll just learn to live with it for now and consider doing so at some point in the future or just take it in for a service somewhere.
> 
> Thanks!


It's not a major issue, wondering if any local members who could sort out?


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## Batian

jimbojohn55

Could a loose or twisted boiler cause this?


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## coffeechap

Batian said:


> jimbojohn55
> 
> Could a loose or twisted boiler cause this?
> 
> View attachment 34124


No it's the glass nuts that are mis aligned


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## Batian

coffeechap,

Thanks for the response.

The nut(s) that held the glass tube in place were not cross threaded. There was a squelshed gaskit inside the tube. (Pic available) It leaked steam and water. The glass tube did not sit flush inside the holder, the nut grated against the glass as it was tightened.

The top holder (as in pic) seemed on the cank, but where it mounted onto the boiler case, it appeared true. (pic NOT available) This was even more apparent at the pressure gauge which was tilted forward.

The bottom holder seemed true


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## Batian

Sort of shows top mount alignment!









Shows squelshed gasket.


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## jimbojohn55

the top and the bottom sight level brackets are both held on by a single nut, when the nuts are tightened the top and the bottom brackets should be allighned.

the issue seems to be that at some point the top bracket has moved out of alignment hence the glass tube being cracked.

To align the top bracket there are two choices

1 remove the glass - wrap the top bracket in tape to protect it. tighten an adjustable spanner onto it and line up, fit new glass and seals

2 Go full Monty on it- - base off - wiring off - element off - socket set with angled adapter on the nut - remove bracket - fit new bracket washer - realign - tighten nut - fit new seals and glass - bingo


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## Batian

Thanks jimbojohn55,

This was a brand new machine, straight out of the box. Defect observed when doing the 'commissioning'. The tube was not cracked. It just leaked at the top!

The matter is ongoing and I wondered if the twisting thing may add weight to my argument....

The solution you describe, has, in another way!

Thanks.

A full report will be posted when the hassle is done and dusted.


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## jimbojohn55

its a manufacturing / transit issue send it back for repair or ask for new one - its a straight forward repair for them


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## MediumRoastSteam

jimbojohn55 said:


> It's not a major issue, wondering if any local members who could sort out?


I've taken the base of my Europiccola off.

Looking at the posts here and on the thread aforementioned, it looks like my machine is missing a gasket between the base and the boiler flange nut. Either that or it has been cooked 

Is it possible to disconnect the pstat pipe from the pstat and the electric wires from the base of the heating element, and unscrew the flange and heating element as a whole, and then screw them back as whole? Or do I need to take the heating element off and then take the flange off?


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## jimbojohn55

I would imagine that as you turned the base and element the pressurestat pipe would hit the side of the base - by unscrewing both of them it will separate the element from the boiler anyway so you might as well remove the element first

not ever seen that melted look for the gasket - im guessing that either pavoni or someone attempting a previous repair has stuck the gasket to the base - pavoni did used to do that but with a clear glue that would fracture in time , so possibly they have used a different glue.


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## MediumRoastSteam

jimbojohn55 said:


> I would imagine that as you turned the base and element the pressurestat pipe would hit the side of the base - by unscrewing both of them it will separate the element from the boiler anyway so you might as well remove the element first
> 
> not ever seen that melted look for the gasket - im guessing that either pavoni or someone attempting a previous repair has stuck the gasket to the base - pavoni did used to do that but with a clear glue that would fracture in time , so possibly they have used a different glue.


Thank you jimbojohn, I see what you mean.

I'll keep you posted on any progress I make.


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## MediumRoastSteam

jimbojohn55 said:


> I would imagine that as you turned the base and element the pressurestat pipe would hit the side of the base - by unscrewing both of them it will separate the element from the boiler anyway so you might as well remove the element first
> 
> not ever seen that melted look for the gasket - im guessing that either pavoni or someone attempting a previous repair has stuck the gasket to the base - pavoni did used to do that but with a clear glue that would fracture in time , so possibly they have used a different glue.


One more question: what's the best way to remove that glue? Is there a special product I can buy or just the flat blade of a Stanley knife would do the trick?


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## jimbojohn55

Just a blade from a Stanley knife will do it, as long as the surface is fairly flat - a slightly rough surface will give the gasket something to grip onto - ive always wanted to try using a smear of high temp silicon sealant (halfords) to see if it stops them morphing into Darleks.


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## ashcroc

jimbojohn55 said:


> Just a blade from a Stanley knife will do it, as long as the surface is fairly flat - a slightly rough surface will give the gasket something to grip onto - ive always wanted to try using a smear of high temp silicon sealant (halfords) to see if it stops them morphing into Darleks.


The bathroom silicon sealant is just as heat resistant as the little tubes of silicon instant gasket sold by Halfords etc. Have used it to mount exhausts before. Only really cost effective if you have some left over from doing some diy mind.


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## MediumRoastSteam

So I should be performing this in the next few weeks... any tips / recommendations in disconnecting and re-attaching the pstat pipe? Should I put one or two turns of PTFE when I screw it back or is it not necessary? As you can see I have very little experience with plumbing!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Batian said:


> jimbojohn55
> 
> Could a loose or twisted boiler cause this?
> 
> View attachment 34124


I just noticed one thing with this picture... is it me or the sight glass and steam knob are on the right of the machine (when facing the machine)? On mine it's on the left, and also on every picture I've seen of other machines.


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## ashcroc

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I just noticed one thing with this picture... is it me or the sight glass and steam knob are on the right of the machine (when facing the machine)? On mine it's on the left, and also on every picture I've seen of other machines.


 I just assumed it was a reverse image.


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## John T

As the result of continually expanding and contracting, it is inevitable that, in the majority of cases, the the boiler/base will loosen. Mine did over a year ago! I consulted an experienced La Pav user and he solved my problem.

He suggested I leave well alone but on inserting and removing the portafilter, to hold the lever in one hand and the portafilter in the other. Hold the lever steady and apply opposite and equal force to both handles. This prevents any movement of the boiler.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Update on this: so, today, equipped with an oil filter wrench, spanner, gasket, Allen keys and whatever else, I was set to put the gaskets for the flange to base and base to boiler.

Taking the boiler element off was a doddle: it came out straight forward. I've replaced the boiler to element gasket as advised. Then the flange.... oh boy. I tried some moderate force, machine between my legs. No budge. Nada. Niente.

I have concluded that the thing must have some thread lock or something in it.

Ok, so, the next step..... a vice! But I don't have one. I've asked some mates at work and they don't have it either.

Are there any other tricks? Otherwise I'm stuck with a rotating base it seems.... :-(

If anyone in the south of England (Newbury / Reading area) wants to give me s hand with this, I would highly appreciate it. 

I'm happy to travel for a couple of hours too.

Time for a coffee. Machine is back up and running.


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## jimbojohn55

Nobody you know with a black and decker workmate



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Update on this: so, today, equipped with an oil filter wrench, spanner, gasket, Allen keys and whatever else, I was set to put the gaskets for the flange to base and base to boiler.
> 
> Taking the boiler element off was a doddle: it came out straight forward. I've replaced the boiler to element gasket as advised. Then the flange.... oh boy. I tried some moderate force, machine between my legs. No budge. Nada. Niente.
> 
> I have concluded that the thing must have some thread lock or something in it.
> 
> Ok, so, the next step..... a vice! But I don't have one. I've asked some mates at work and they don't have it either.
> 
> Are there any other tricks? Otherwise I'm stuck with a rotating base it seems.... :-(
> 
> If anyone in the south of England (Newbury / Reading area) wants to give me s hand with this, I would highly appreciate it.
> 
> I'm happy to travel for a couple of hours too.
> 
> Time for a coffee. Machine is back up and running.


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## MediumRoastSteam

I'll ask


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## MediumRoastSteam

jimbojohn55 said:


> Nobody you know with a black and decker workmate


I remember you saying that you secure the machine upside down with wood planks and cloth against the group. So I'm assuming all the counterforce will be against the group bolted to the boiler. Is there any risk of damaging it?


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## El carajillo

Place a packing piece slightly thicker than the drip recess in the recess then a piece of hardboard / wood on the now top side, then use a 'G' cramp to fix it to the plank / worktop.


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## MediumRoastSteam

El carajillo said:


> Place a packing piece slightly thicker than the drip recess in the recess then a piece of hardboard / wood on the now top side, then use a 'G' cramp to fix it to the plank / worktop.


That would fix the base to the worktop, right? How do you fix the boiler so it doesn't move, allowing the flange to be unscrewed?


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## jimbojohn55

£30 solution - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-And-Decker-WM301-Workmate-Vice-Jaw-Table-Bench-Steel-Durable-Adjustable/173120733325?epid=3020626523&hash=item284eccc08d:g:I6wAAOSwL9paaf-M

£10 solution - https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/d10/Vices/sd2877/Swivel+Table+Vice/p70361

(screwfix charge £19 for something similar)

£3 Miami type - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miami-Vice-DVD-2010/372345877103?epid=59558167&hash=item56b18b326f:g:it0AAOSwmrlU0wHk

I would go for the middle option


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## MediumRoastSteam

jimbojohn55 said:


> £30 solution - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-And-Decker-WM301-Workmate-Vice-Jaw-Table-Bench-Steel-Durable-Adjustable/173120733325?epid=3020626523&hash=item284eccc08d:g:I6wAAOSwL9paaf-M
> 
> £10 solution - https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/d10/Vices/sd2877/Swivel+Table+Vice/p70361
> 
> (screwfix charge £19 for something similar)
> 
> £3 Miami type - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Miami-Vice-DVD-2010/372345877103?epid=59558167&hash=item56b18b326f:g:it0AAOSwmrlU0wHk
> 
> I would go for the middle option


Coincidentally, I already have the third option.... 

Thank you. Speaking to a friend last night down the pub, finds out he owns a B&D workmate workbench


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