# DB Buzz brew with button?



## Drusy (Sep 8, 2015)

Now that I'm just outside my 2 yr warranty, my Sage DB is making a horrible long buzzing noise when I hit the brew buttons. It still works, but sounds like the switch is about to go. Anyone experienced this, and any advice where to take it to get it fixed? Any advice appreciated!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Drusy said:


> Now that I'm just outside my 2 yr warranty, my Sage DB is making a horrible long buzzing noise when I hit the brew buttons. It still works, but sounds like the switch is about to go. Anyone experienced this, and any advice where to take it to get it fixed? Any advice appreciated!


It is still worthwhile contacting Sage as their is a chance they'll still agree to have it looked at. If not, they use Coffee Classics for all their repair work, so if sage turn you down it might be worth calling them to see what prices they charge etc.? They have loads of experience and the parts etc...

Coffee classics http://coffeeclassics.co.uk/what-we-do/machine-repair-or-breakdown/


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Drusy said:


> Now that I'm just outside my 2 yr warranty, my Sage DB is making a horrible long buzzing noise when I hit the brew buttons. It still works, but sounds like the switch is about to go. Anyone experienced this, and any advice where to take it to get it fixed? Any advice appreciated!


If those brew buttons are opening a solenoid valve in the machine, could well be a shading coil gone on a solenoid....if so an easy cheap fix.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just realised I never explained what a shading coil is or does....also in what devices it matters and it what devices it doesn't too much apart from noise.

*Our electric works at 240V A/C at 50hz. So 100 times every second the voltage drops to zero as the sine wave moves from plus 330V and minus 330V approx.* I know your saying that's not 240V, but we only look at 240V RMS (Root mean square), hence the peaks are higher but the RMS equivelant is 240V

Simplistically....contactors and Solenoid valves have a coil that pulls a metal core to close a contactor or close a valve. I'm not going into details of laminations core or coil design, except to say an A/C coil atracts an iron core at 100 times per second and briefly *for 100 times per second the voltage is 0 and it's not attracted, so the spring tries to push it back open*..

A solenoid valve has a return spring than when voltage/current is 0, the spring returns the iron core to the starting position and it opens or closes (depending on whether it's a normally open or normally closed solenoid valve). The problem is a 100hz chatter as the voltage drops to zero each time (this is the buzz you might here). *In fact if a shading coil was not present you would always here this buzz.*

Now the buzz doesn't damage anything in a solenoid, but contactors normally act as a moving bussbar type relay and if they Buzz, then you get arcing and it burns out the contact faces. Contactors normally give a loud clack on bug electrical loads, if you got an electric car you will be familiar with this. Also these big contactors often have 2 shading coils for extra strength.

*To counter this "chatter" we have the Shading Coil. It's a very simple device, jut a some turns of copper wire (joining back on itself, hece sometimes you will see the term shading ring) at the correct position at end pole of the coil. As the voltage drops away in the main coil it induces one in the shading coil to keep a magnetic field at the zero point. It's the same effect as any transformer where a primary winding induces a voltage in a secondary winding placed near it.*

Usually they don't give trouble, but sometimes you get a bad solenoid or one goes bad. The buzz often gets worse as the voltage drops and sometimes in very low mains voltage situations good solenoids may buzz faintly and slightly faulty ones buzz annoyingly. this is because the induced current in the shading coil drops as the voltage drops (square of voltage).

*So in a machines sometimes a solenoid buzzes at 6-8 in the evening it might just be lower voltage. If one buzzes louder, it's OK no need to worry, just change the solenoid valve when a permanent buzz becomes annoying.*



*
*I saw the like/thank come in really quickly...you know who you are.....couldn't possibly have read it that quick...or did you?


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## Drusy (Sep 8, 2015)

Wow, this is fantastic! Mystery solved and I can now give the buzz nothing more than a knowing smug.... until in needs replacing. Many thanks


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mine has started doing this intermittently. A buzzing noise usually with the first use when it's switched on.

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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

@davecuk how easy is it to replace? I was more thinking how easy is it to access?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> @davecuk how easy is it to replace? I was more thinking how easy is it to access?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


 Don't know in a sage. You could try cleaning the solenoid first just in case that helps, check nothing is making the plunger stick. Replacement in a prosumer machine is usually straightforward, hopefully will be the same in a sage, although you may have trouble getting any specific sage part?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I had a quick look at guide you tube and the fix looks fairly straight forward. I'd probably do the replacement if I've gone to the trouble of taking it off.

I'm struggling to find any where that sells them though. Has anyone got any suggestions?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Photo of the part would help in suggesting alternatives to sage unobtanium parts...


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Haven't got that far, but they're meant to look like this.
















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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

According to home-barista this is the solenoid they use. Original on the right way in the first photo










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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

On the bottom in the below.
















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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Update found this guy in Germany selling these.

M15 Olab 9000 Solenoid valve 240V for Breville BES900XL BES920XL Coffee Machine

http:// https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=DChcSEwjNpPvSuNfpAhUC7u0KHdt6AuoYABAHGgJkZw&sig=AOD64_31VWVfqRIZiSCDNyISmNoCEnngHA&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiknPLSuNfpAhW1nVwKHdHNAJUQwg96BAgHEAo&adurl=

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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

So the parts arrived today. Although the solenoid looks slightly different.

The seller has advised just using the green o rings which I can't figure out how the pin would sit correctly.


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