# Upgrading my Classic



## maths15 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi

I'm thinking of upgrading my Classic I have had for a few years.

Any advise on the next step up?

I've got two kids under seven so nothing stupid price wise!

Thanks.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Do you have a rough budget? What are you looking for from your upgrade? What drinks to do you typically make and how frequently? Got a grinder?


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## maths15 (Nov 25, 2012)

Looking at about £500. I have a Dulitt burr grinder which I modded to grind finer. Flat white is what intend to gravity too 80% of the time. I am the only coffee drinker in the house and use it about 15 times a week.

Not sure what I am looking for from an upgrade but it seems that the Classic is an entry level espresso machine and after three or four years with I thought it may be time to upgrade.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok ,set a budget , I'm bot being rude or p but before you move on to another machine you need to spend some cash on a grinder.

If there is any left then at the machine, if you have the room go for a seconds hand SJ, if not and you want smaller look for the mignion or vario , if the budget is really tight some thing like a Graef or an mc2 will still I think hopefully be a step up .

Your looking for something that produces a good consistent grind .

A finer grind on a machine doesn't always mean consistent , a more consistent grind size will give you a fuller range of flavour in the cup .

Poor ground coffee in , pour coffee out

I can't stress enough what a difference a decent grinder would make

Grinder as important as machine

£500 machine £30 grinder is a little imbalanced .


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

And are you willing to contemplate second hand? If you haven't already, it might be worth browsing the for sale to see what pops up for around the £500 mark and use that as a starting point for more research - although sooner or later you'll get some positive suggestions.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Phil104 said:


> And are you willing to contemplate second hand? If you haven't already, it might be worth browsing the for sale to see what pops up for around the £500 mark and use that as a starting point for more research - although sooner or later you'll get some positive suggestions.


Replace the dualitt ( btw i have one somewhere, perhaps I should try if for spro ) a new machine will be a folly with out a grinder to match it .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You need a better grinder. If you're only making drinks for one person you'll see a bigger improvement from upgrading your grinder rather than your machine.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Grinder grinder grinder. Take that from someone currently using an hg one with a classic.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Echoing the above, whilst on a silvia not a classic, massive step up in quality by changing my grinder from Rocky (which was not bad as a starter) to Zenith.

Advice on the Mazzer SJ secondhand woud be a cheaper option if not wishing to buy new as said above and if you look at the signatures of people on here you will see lots of more expensive grinders than Machines (HG one and classic etc)

Grinder will also see you through the next bout of upgraditis as an added bonus

Hope of some help

John


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Of course, I agree with the comments about a grinder. I also know what it's like to get fixed on an idea (e.g., a different machine) and the overwhelming desire to pursue it. It takes an effort to rethink the priority.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Phil104 said:


> Of course, I agree with the comments about a grinder. I also know what it's like to get fixed on an idea (e.g., a different machine) and the overwhelming desire to pursue it. It takes an effort to rethink the priority.


But I think in this case it's essential. A new machine will just be a let down with that grinder. It simply won't be a big step up. It may not even improve taste at all.


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## Bigpikle (Oct 14, 2014)

I think the problem sometimes when thinking about upgrading is that you dont necessarily SEE a difference in the ground coffee but you SEE the new shiny bling looking espresso machine.

Is there any way to actually demonstrate visually how an inconsistent grinder is holding back the overall coffee performance? I guess a naked PF helps show the quality of the grind, dose and tamp, but is there a simple way to demonstrate the importance of the grinder in the result?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Bigpikle said:


> I think the problem sometimes when thinking about upgrading is that you dont necessarily SEE a difference in the ground coffee but you SEE the new shiny bling looking espresso machine.
> 
> Is there any way to actually demonstrate visually how an inconsistent grinder is holding back the overall coffee performance? I guess a naked PF helps show the quality of the grind, dose and tamp, but is there a simple way to demonstrate the importance of the grinder in the result?


Get a dualit and put it beside a super jolly, pull 5 shots from each on a classic. I guarantee you the super jolly will taste better and grind more consistently. (I haven't tried this).


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Depending upon where you live maths15 there may well be another forum member close to you that would be willing to demonstrate the difference that Neill and others on the thread are talking about.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Bigpikle said:


> I think the problem sometimes when thinking about upgrading is that you dont necessarily SEE a difference in the ground coffee but you SEE the new shiny bling looking espresso machine.
> 
> Is there any way to actually demonstrate visually how an inconsistent grinder is holding back the overall coffee performance? I guess a naked PF helps show the quality of the grind, dose and tamp, but is there a simple way to demonstrate the importance of the grinder in the result?


You see the shiny new grinder too


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## Bigpikle (Oct 14, 2014)

all true but I was wondering if there is a way to see it without needing a SJ on your worktop eg poke around in the ground coffee, look at it under a magnifying glass etc?

I know things were night and day when my Mignon arrived after pulling a few shots on my Porlex, but thats probably fairly extreme. I bet even a cheapo domestic burr grinder churns out something that looks like espresso ground coffee at first glance.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Bigpikle said:


> all true but I was wondering if there is a way to see it without needing a SJ on your worktop eg poke around in the ground coffee, look at it under a magnifying glass etc?
> 
> I know things were night and day when my Mignon arrived after pulling a few shots on my Porlex, but thats probably fairly extreme. I bet even a cheapo domestic burr grinder churns out something that looks like espresso ground coffee at first glance.


Laser particle analyser


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## maths15 (Nov 25, 2012)

Ok, thanks for the advise. Maybe I'll save a bit of money and upgrade the grinder first.

I must admit part of the desir to upgrade is in the name of kitchen porn.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

maths15 said:


> Ok, thanks for the advise. Maybe I'll save a bit of money and upgrade the grinder first.
> 
> I must admit part of the desir to upgrade is in the name of kitchen porn.


I upgraded my grinder twice with my Classic, both times made a massive difference.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

maths15 said:


> I must admit part of the desir to upgrade is in the name of kitchen porn.


A big shiny new grinder should be able to qualify as "Kitchen porn", just have a search through the for sale thread to see how they look and if this satisfies.

Understand the desire for something new and shiny machine wise and no doubt about it there are some drop dead gorgeous machines out there, but to use an old hifi adage (amp or speakers replacing machine in this example) rubbish in / rubbish out: the source ( decent beans / good grinder) is by far and away the biggest improvement per £ spent potentially.

John


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

maths15 said:


> Ok, thanks for the advise. Maybe I'll save a bit of money and upgrade the grinder first.
> 
> I must admit part of the desir to upgrade is in the name of kitchen porn.


The brown stuff that comes out of it is kinda important too...


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Your budget would easily cover a decent grinder upgrade.


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