# Why cant i get my espresso into the 'range' anymore?



## skylark

Hi ... the title says it all. Sage Barista Express, 8 months old. I used to be able to get my espresso pulls into the espresso range no problem. Past few have been a disaster, not even reaching the range. What's gone wrong. I use fresh beans, setting of 6-7 to grind, tamp using the same espro calibrated tamp yet it's still not right ... any ideas?


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## Mrboots2u

What does in the range mean ? Not tasty ?

Are you weighing your dose, are you weighing your output ?

If not then it's hard to say or give you any advice

Have you cleaned the machine at all ?

Have you changed the beans ?


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## skylark

Thanks ... by 'in the range' i am being specific to the SAGE barista express machine which is basically a set up and go machine. It has a gauge which indicates pre-infusion and espresso stages and on my previous attempts the gauge dial has been pretty much spot on, ie vertical, indicating that the right conditions are being met. Recently i'm failing to get the dial out of the pre-infusion range. Ownets of this machine will identify with what i'm saying by in the range. Yes, brand new fresh beans.


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## Mrboots2u

skylark said:


> Thanks ... by 'in the range' i am being specific to the SAGE barista express machine which is basically a set up and go machine. It has a gauge which indicates pre-infusion and espresso stages and on my previous attempts the gauge dial has been pretty much spot on, ie vertical, indicating that the right conditions are being met. Recently i'm failing to get the dial out of the pre-infusion range. Ownets of this machine will identify with what i'm saying by in the range. Yes, brand new fresh beans.


If you want go get back to range, set your variables, weigh dose , weight espresso . No machine is plug and play .

Your reduced pressure could be to decrease in dose , or the grinder needs cleaning , along with the machine .

So

are you weighing

have you cleaned the machine and grinder

have you changed the beans , different beans need different grind settings


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## skylark

Maybe i'm not explaining myself very well bt in answer to your questions, yes i'm doing all of those things. Nothing has changed since i purchased the machine 8 miths aho. All of the settings are at default, i call that plug and play. My pulls are no longer reachin the espresso range on the gauge. Anypne owning a BE machine able to comment. Thanks.


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## 4085

Dare I say, if it is tasty, do not worry........


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## joey24dirt

So you have you tried adjusting the grind settings at all? Was this a sudden change or has it happened gradually? I would take on board what MrBoots is asking as they could all be reasons behind why you aren't reaching the required brew pressure.

When you're running the BE, can you hear the pump switching from pre-infusion to full pressure?


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## DavecUK

This gauge is just a pressure gauge, so if it's not reading right, and nothing else has changed, it's more likely to be a machine fault e.g. pump going bad, expansion valve problem, needs descaling etc..


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## Mrboots2u

skylark said:


> Maybe i'm not explaining myself very well bt in answer to your questions, yes i'm doing all of those things. Nothing has changed since i purchased the machine 8 miths aho. All of the settings are at default, i call that plug and play. My pulls are no longer reachin the espresso range on the gauge. Anypne owning a BE machine able to comment. Thanks.


Have you changed the coffee? The bean?


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Dare I say, if it is tasty, do not worry........


Well tbh yeah.


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## Mrboots2u

We may now have had sage barista but they are like any other coffee machine , they need cleaning and descaling

if you change the blend or the bean , its needs dialling in and may need a grind change beyond number 8 .

Its a bit hard to tell what's going on as you havent told us the parameters of the shot or whether its a problem in the cup or if you have cleaned it ever.


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## skylark

Its not, thats the problem.



dfk41 said:


> Dare I say, if it is tasty, do not worry........


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm inclined to agree with Boots.

If you're struggling we have a resident expert on the Sage BE, who maybe able to help. Calling @ajohn


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## skylark

Mrboots2u said:


> We may now have had sage barista but they are like any other coffee machine , they need cleaning and descaling
> 
> if you change the blend or the bean , its needs dialling in and may need a grind change beyond number 8 .
> 
> Its a bit hard to tell what's going on as you havent told us the parameters of the shot or whether its a problem in the cup or if you have cleaned it ever.


I'm a lot of a novice and havent really fiddled with the 'parameters' but the machine is as is has been 18g (weighed) of fresh bean in, 60ml (preset and verified) out. Grinder set at 5. Pulling the shot and preinfusion takes around 7-8secs, then pump seems to pressurise and guage moves to just not quite the espresso range, around anout the 9oclock setting. Shot seems quite quick to dispense and obviously not very drinkable. As for cleaning, its not flagged a cleaning cycle but, yes, i cleaned it as per instructions. Not been used that much at all though. Any help?


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## urbanbumpkin

From what you've said and how you're measuring the out put I'd be tempted to try and grind finer and see if that improves the taste.

What beans are you using


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## skylark

urbanbumpkin said:


> From what you've said and how you're measuring the out put I'd be tempted to try and grind finer and see if that improves the taste.
> 
> What beans are you using


Cafedirect machu pichu is the current bean .... will grinding finer up the pressure do you think?


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## urbanbumpkin

If you think the shot is quick, it will slow it down.


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## rob177palmer

skylark said:


> I'm a lot of a novice and havent really fiddled with the 'parameters' but the machine is as is has been 18g (weighed) of fresh bean in, 60ml (preset and verified) out. Grinder set at 5. Pulling the shot and preinfusion takes around 7-8secs, then pump seems to pressurise and guage moves to just not quite the espresso range, around anout the 9oclock setting. Shot seems quite quick to dispense and obviously not very drinkable. As for cleaning, its not flagged a cleaning cycle but, yes, i cleaned it as per instructions. Not been used that much at all though. Any help?


"Quite quick"

Would really help if you can time from pressing the brew butting to completing the 60 ml(?) brew.

If this takes 10-15seconds then yes - that is indeed quite quick.

Three main options (there are many other potential issues!!):

1) the grind is too coarse

2) poor grind distribution.

3) too much / little grinds to the basket

Given you say this changed suddenly, I'd research distribution techniques. Making sure the grinds are whisked and spread evenly allows a proper tamp and avoids channelling and gushers. WDT is incredibly effective for zero cost.

Alternately you might be dosing too high, causing channeling and water rushing through the ease routes?

Confirm the timings and we can work from there.


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## skylark

rob177palmer said:


> "quite quick"
> 
> would really help if you can time from pressing the brew butting to completing the 60 ml(?) brew.
> 
> If this takes 10-15seconds then yes - that is indeed quite quick.
> 
> Three main options (there are many other potential issues!!):
> 
> 1) the grind is too coarse
> 
> 2) poor grind distribution.
> 
> 3) too much / little grinds to the basket
> 
> given you say this changed suddenly, i'd research distribution techniques. Making sure the grinds are whisked and spread evenly allows a proper tamp and avoids channelling and gushers. Wdt is incredibly effective for zero cost.
> 
> Alternately you might be dosing too high, causing channeling and water rushing through the ease routes?
> 
> Confirm the timings and we can work from there.


wdt?


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## ashcroc

skylark said:


> wdt?






.


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## MildredM

My take on this, if it suddenly changed from working satisfactorily to not doing so, when you hadn't changed a thing, then possibly a fault has developed. Make contact with the seller under your guarantee.

If you changed even one single thing though, specifically the beans, and it tastes awful then re-examine everything you are doing. If you suspect this may be the case then weighing in, timing, weighing out, tasting and adjusting is the way to go.

My suggestions are not SBE specific though so I am probably totally wrong!


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## Dumnorix

As a previous owner of the BE, when using a new bean I sometimes had to change the grind setting up or down 3 notches to get the extraction right. I think your problem might be as simple as that if there was a sudden change when you started to use new beans.

The only other time I had an issue was after descaling- it seemed to take the machine a few shots to settle back down, as I noticed the brew pressure dropping even when using exactly the same beans, weights and prep etc that I had used a couple of hours before running the descale cycle.


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## ajohn

Need to clarify a couple of things.

You have been using 18g in and 60ml out and all has generally been ok with the gauge getting to the vertical position or there abouts ?

The 18 in and 60ml out wasn't a one off - it worked for a number of shots?

Are you using a hopper full of bean and the timer to obtain 18g or weighing 18g of beans into an empty hopper and then grinding them all?

John

-


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## skylark

ajohn said:


> Need to clarify a couple of things.
> 
> You have been using 18g in and 60ml out and all has generally been ok with the gauge getting to the vertical position or there abouts ?
> 
> The 18 in and 60ml out wasn't a one off - it worked for a number of shots?
> 
> Are you using a hopper full of bean and the timer to obtain 18g or weighing 18g of beans into an empty hopper and then grinding them all?
> 
> John
> 
> -


Hopper of beans, grind then weigh 18g into portafilter is my modus operandii. Generally pressure has been moreorless consistent to technique isnt the problem .... i'll grind a bit finer next time.


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## johnealey

Worth also bearing in mind if you are sticking to exactly the same brand / type of bean referred to earlier there it is possible that whilst the name remains the same there could be a new years harvest of beans going into the roaster (thus behaving differently) or a different roaast level (also behaves differently) both of these things requiring an adjustment of your grinder setting to make all other things equal.

If you go through the steps being requested above what you are helping to do is narrow down the "what" of "what is not functioning" in the manner you expecting as at the moment little information to give an informed choice on, if that makes sense.

Rule out the beans by changing the grind setting

Weigh into basket / Weigh liquid out in grams (ml are not a good measure, how much crema full of bubbles is making up your volume measure

Rule out the distribution in the portafilter by adopting some form of distribution of the grinds in the basket

Check with a weigh scale your calibrated tamper ( it could have slipped), rule that out

start timer when start pump / stop timer when turn off, note time.

Observe where the gauge sits when pouring and note

Taste, note, report back.

The responses above have pointers in to follow at each step (grind finer etc) which may also help. As well as answering the cleaning question for the machine have you also cleaned out the grinder recently, removing or adjusting the top burr?

Hope of some help

John


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## skylark

Tried a couple with different grind settings and no improvement at all. Should've mentioned pucks are quite soggy. I'm disillusioned so far. Just cant understand whats changed. Hasnt been me ...


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> Tried a couple with different grind settings and no improvement at all. Should've mentioned pucks are quite soggy. I'm disillusioned so far. Just cant understand whats changed. Hasnt been me ...


It would be best if you told us what you changed & its impact from one shot to the next.

So far you have told us that you have measured everything, changed grind & nothing is working. If true, then it is impossible to make espresso with your machine. This isn't the case, assuming that it is functioning OK.

Break down what is going on & we might be able to help.


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## ajohn

Grinding finer would seem to the the most sensible step suggested so far.

One other aspect could cause problems and is most likely to occur when a different bean is used. Different beans are likely to need different grinder settings anyway; The dose may need changing. I mostly used the single basket and most of my drinks are made with a bean that is noticeably lighter than many others. I found the easiest way to handle that was the razor tool. It always set the dose to a reasonable level. Once the grind was sorted I'd then looked at varying the dose that it left but a lot of that relates to my own technique for using the machine. I don't just go for a decent drink I also want a nice tidy puck that knocks out cleanly and doesn't need a sledge hammer to do it. If this area relates to your problem you would probably be getting sludgy pucks but over filling can have the same sort of effect as grinding finer. If it's doing that to a very noticeable degree I'd suggest trying a lower dose but it can take a while to sort out what it needs to be. I tended to work just a few 1/10g over the point where the puck stuck to the shower screen or just short of that.

When the needle on the gauge is vertical as per the manual the brew pressure is around 9 to 10 bar. If you do a back flush with the rubber disc it goes up to around 15bar where the over pressure valve opens. The grind adjustment is fine enough to set just short of 15 bar or the OPV just about opening.

John

-


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## Dylan

Was about to suggest what John just did, put the blanking disc in and check the machine is properly building pressure.

Then if it is:

Grind finer and keep grinding finer until your shot slows down, you should be able to choke the machine (too fine for water to get through) with a fine grind. So somewhere between choking and where you are now is the grind setting you want.

Old/stale beans don't work very well and taste shit, make sure you buy fresh.

Also fwiw pulling a 60ml shot from 18g is a very long shot, once you have solved your issue you should try a shorter shot to see what you prefer if you haven't already. A more typical shot would be 36g (1g is roughly 1ml) from 18g of espresso.


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## ashcroc

Dylan said:


> Was about to suggest what John just did, put the blanking disc in and check the machine is properly building pressure.
> 
> Then if it is:
> 
> Grind finer and keep grinding finer until your shot slows down, you should be able to choke the machine (too fine for water to get through) with a fine grind. So somewhere between choking and where you are now is the grind setting you want.
> 
> Old/stale beans don't work very well and taste shit, make sure you buy fresh.
> 
> Also fwiw pulling a 60ml shot from 18g is a very long shot, once you have solved your issue you should try a shorter shot to see what you prefer if you haven't already. A more typical shot would be 36g (1g is roughly 1ml) from 18g of espresso.


18g to 60ml is somewhere in the region of a 1:3 ratio so it's not too far out there.


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## ajohn

ashcroc said:


> 18g to 60ml is somewhere in the region of a 1:3 ratio so it's not too far out there.


I sometimes find that ratio suites the bean. There have been some posts about 1 to 2.6 lately. Well why not 1 to 3 or so. On the DB I often find myself at circa 1 to 2.6 but generally went higher on the BE. I always try and get the taste the bean should have







then if I don't like it bend it.

Due to being able to brew at 15 bar means that working back from the machine being choked could be problematic and need to too much grinder changing. I followed Sage's suggestion of starting at setting of 8 which will probably mean going finer. Hard to prove but I concluded that this helped the grinder settle down from dead clean. I was dosing using the timer though with periodic adjustments before changes caused too much of a problem.

When using the single I found that brewing with the OPV just about open was essential plus strong beans but I do make rather large drinks. Brewing like that with the double was a bad idea. Just about everything came out way too strong - Sage's suggested gauge behaviour makes sense then but taste needs might result in a higher or lower final readings.

John

-


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## skylark

I"m just using the machine defaults 18g in, 60ml out as a double shot. Just did a clean cycle and all pressured up just fine. I"ve had grinder settings between 8 and 2 and each time its just pants! Just doesnt get into espresso part of the gauge.



ashcroc said:


> 18g to 60ml is somewhere in the region of a 1:3 ratio so it's not too far out there.


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> I"m just using the machine defaults 18g in, 60ml out as a double shot. Just did a clean cycle and all pressured up just fine. I"ve had grinder settings between 8 and 2 and each time its just pants!


Is there any change in shot time, output in the cup, or taste when you go from 8 to 2, or back again?

Are you weighing the empty portafilter, tareing, then reweighing after grinding to ensure that you have 18.0g each time?


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## skylark

Not really. I measure 18g in on the scales at 0.00 then move it to pf.



MWJB said:


> Is there any change in shot time, output in the cup, or taste when you go from 8 to 2, or back again?
> 
> Are you weighing the empty portafilter, tareing, then reweighing after grinding to ensure that you have 18.0g each time?


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## Nicknak

I did have have problem once with a sage oracle , which doesn't have a pressure gauge . But the shot behaviour changed very quickly .. It turned out to be the water filter in the tank had clogged .. I was waiting for the machine to tell me to change it .. If you take the filter out if it has one in the tank and try a shot. I did that and everything went back to normal . Might be worth a try ..


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> Not really. I measure 18g in on the scales at 0.00 then move it to pf.


Can you set the grinder finer?


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## skylark

MWJB said:


> Can you set the grinder finer?


Been down at 2, not much finer to go.


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> Been down at 2, not much finer to go.


Isn't there facility to relocate the upper burr to allow for wear? Check the manual.


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## skylark

MWJB said:


> Isn't there facility to relocate the upper burr to allow for wear? Check the manual.


Machine's virtually brand new with only 'delivery' espressos on the click so i'd doubt it needs such drastic action.


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## Mrboots2u

skylark said:


> Not really. I measure 18g in on the scales at 0.00 then move it to pf.


Is this different coffee from what you have had previously ? what is the roast date ? how are you storing it ?


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## skylark

Mrboots2u said:


> Is this different coffee from what you have had previously ? what is the roast date ? how are you storing it ?


Current bean ... Cafe Direct machu pichu, sealed, roast date 13/9. Yes, different bean but only to try and eliminate previous beans as duff. Didnt work. Storage in coffee gator tins but recent pulls straight from the bag.


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## Mrboots2u

skylark said:


> Current bean ... Cafe Direct machu pichu, sealed, roast date 13/9. Yes, different bean but only to try and eliminate previous beans as duff. Didnt work. Storage in coffee gator tins but recent pulls straight from the bag.


Is this the one " for filter and french press "

https://www.cafedirect.co.uk/products/machu-picchu/


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## Mrboots2u

Actually there is another stock photos thats doesnt have that on the bag .


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## skylark

Looks similar but doesnt mention cafetiere or french press? Where'd you spot that?


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> Looks similar but doesnt mention cafetiere or french press? Where'd you spot that?


It'll be preground if it says "filter & French press".

If yours is wholebean it won't be on there.


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## skylark

MWJB said:


> It'll be preground if it says "filter & French press".
> 
> If yours is wholebean it won't be on there.


Not sure what you mean. These are beans, am i missing something here?


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## Dylan

ashcroc said:


> 18g to 60ml is somewhere in the region of a 1:3 ratio so it's not too far out there.


Yea, not trying to suggest it's incorrect, but if that's all you have ever pulled it worth trying a shorter one.


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## skylark

Point taken but i need to get a decent 'in pressure' espresso out of the machine again first. I've banked it ...



Dylan said:


> Yea, not trying to suggest it's incorrect, but if that's all you have ever pulled it worth trying a shorter one.


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## Dylan

Skylark - if the shot is running fast then this tell us that it is unlikely to be a problem with the pressure itself - a shot running quickly is just the water passing through the puck too fast (obviously) - this would not happen if your grind was fine enough.

You said you have been down to 2, well go lower - go as fine as your grinder will go.

If you are still having problems after that then my guess would be a grinder that is not grinding fine enough. Maybe the settings have slipped or maybe these beans are a bit lighter and the grinder is just not really capable. - what grinder do you have by the way?

This will all actually be a lot easier of you stop worrying about the gauge. If you are grinding fine enough then back pressure is simply an outcome of this process, you do not need to aim for a 9 bar extraction to get good espresso and it is in fact a distraction from the relatively simple steps you need to go through to make espresso.

When the shot is running too fast - you grind finer. This is the only thing you should be doing right now. As I said above, if you go as fine as your grinder can go and the shot is still running fast then there is likely an issue with your grinder. At its finest setting the grounds should feel like flour, easy to compress together.


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## Dylan

skylark said:


> Point taken but i need to get a decent 'in pressure' espresso out of the machine again first. I've banked it ...


Stop worrying about hitting the 'in pressure' point on the gauge. Judge your espresso by weight and time. This gets everyone on the same page.

I know Sage advise you a different way, but trust me, its all part of the same recipe its just a different way to read the book.


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> Not sure what you mean. These are beans, am i missing something here?


The whole beans won't say "for filter & French press" because this relates to how they are pre-ground. You are grinding yours.


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## skylark

Thanks but this is a Barista Express machine complete with grinder and gauge. Shots are, timewise, as they were when i COULD pull a decent shot. Now they're not. Technique hadnr changed yet i cant get a decent shot out if the machine, barely gets away from preinfusion pressure. Something aint right, just cant pin it down. Like i said, gronder is the onbiard one, settings on fine down to 1 only. I've been at 2 and still no go. Thats not the problem. It doesnt seem to want to pressure up but only when a shor is being pulled? I've cleaned the machine as suggested and it DID go to full pressure so could there be a pressure loss when pulling a shot? As i say, prep is exactly the same as previous pulls. Tamping 'seems ok', coffee in pf seems ok. Where next?


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## skylark

MWJB said:


> The whole beans won't say "for filter & French press" because this relates to how they are pre-ground. You are grinding yours.


And mine doesnt ..... cos they're beans


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## MildredM

If it WAS fine then suddyit ISN'T and you haven't changed anything then, surely, it has developed a fault? Contact the seller, it is well in guarantee.


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## skylark

Need to understand why though, all part of the learning curve.



MildredM said:


> If it WAS fine then suddyit ISN'T and you haven't changed anything then, surely, it has developed a fault? Contact the seller, it is well in guarantee.


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## Mrboots2u

Process of elimination here

The coffee is crap

The dose is alot less than it should be

The machine needs descaling and back flushing

The pressure gauge is knackered ?

The grinder has been put back together incorrectly ?


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## skylark

Item 1 is true, remainders false

When pulling the shot the process doesnt get out of preinfusion. .



Mrboots2u said:


> Process of elimination here
> 
> The coffee is crap
> 
> The dose is alot less than it should be
> 
> The machine needs descaling and back flushing
> 
> The pressure gauge is knackered ?
> 
> The grinder has been put back together incorrectly ?


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## Mrboots2u

skylark said:


> Item 1 is true, remainders false.


Then change coffee.

It has to be one of these thing or the machine is knackered .

If you truly think that call Sage.


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## skylark

Already changed the beans. Machine 'could' have a problem but its not obviously doing anything wrong other than not pulling a shot properly. So, nothing technically wrong in my opinion.


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## Dylan

skylark said:


> Thanks but this is a Barista Express machine complete with grinder and gauge. Shots are, timewise, as they were when i COULD pull a decent shot. Now they're not. Technique hadnr changed yet i cant get a decent shot out if the machine, barely gets away from preinfusion pressure. Something aint right, just cant pin it down. Like i said, gronder is the onbiard one, settings on fine down to 1 only. I've been at 2 and still no go. Thats not the problem. It doesnt seem to want to pressure up but only when a shor is being pulled? I've cleaned the machine as suggested and it DID go to full pressure so could there be a pressure loss when pulling a shot? As i say, prep is exactly the same as previous pulls. Tamping 'seems ok', coffee in pf seems ok. Where next?


This isn't particularly clear. Many many machines have pressure gauges, mine does, I don't use it to decide when I am pulling a good shot. I use the weight of the espresso I am making vs the time it takes to make it. This is all you need. You really don't need to worry about the gauge,.

Are you saying that you have tried the grinder at its lowest setting and you are still getting liquid come through quickly?

If the answer to this is yes then the most likely reason is

"The grinder has been put back together incorrectly" - if on the lowest setting it cant choke the machine then something is wrong.

I know you are having a lot of info thrown at you, but try and go through the questions being asked, they are a process of elimination and without testing them it is very hard to help with your issue.

When on its finest setting what do the grounds feel like?


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## Nicknak

@skylark

Have you tried taking out the water filter from the tank and try using the machine without it .

As mentioned in my post I had a similar problem where everything changed for no apparent reason .

I went through Sage then coffee classics their engineers and that was the first thing they suggested .

It worked .. it's a few minutes job ,if it doesn't make a difference you've lost two minutes and you can put it back.

Coffee classic told me to do all the maintenance jobs more regularly than the book suggeststo include descale , cleaning the head and changing the filter

Nothing to lose really ..


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## skylark

Ok. Thanks guys, all useful info but none which identifies the reason for poor shots. It's not helpful to say ignore the gauge as, when the shots were just fine, the gauge was fine also. Now it isnt and they aren't also. The grinder isn't the problem either. I just know its working aok.

Think i've taken up enough of everyones time so please ... no more updates. I've thieoughly cleaned the machine and it'll go on the back burner for now. I've just sat down to a cup of instant decaf . Cheers people!


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## skylark

Thanks NN .... did try that. No joy.



Nicknak said:


> @skylark
> 
> Have you tried taking out the water filter from the tank and try using the machine without it .
> 
> As mentioned in my post I had a similar problem where everything changed for no apparent reason .
> 
> I went through Sage then coffee classics their engineers and that was the first thing they suggested .
> 
> It worked .. it's a few minutes job ,if it doesn't make a difference you've lost two minutes and you can put it back.
> 
> Coffee classic told me to do all the maintenance jobs more regularly than the book suggeststo include descale , cleaning the head and changing the filter
> 
> Nothing to lose really ..


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## Dylan

skylark said:


> Ok. Thanks guys, all useful info but none which identifies the reason for poor shots. It's not helpful to say ignore the gauge as, when the shots were just fine, the gauge was fine also. Now it isnt and they aren't also. The grinder isn't the problem either. I just know its working aok.
> 
> Think i've taken up enough of everyones time so please ... no more updates. I've thieoughly cleaned the machine and it'll go on the back burner for now. I've just sat down to a cup of instant decaf . Cheers people!


Your resistance to actually answering questions asked of you to try and help you solve your problem is baffling.



> Think i've taken up enough of everyones time


I think perhaps you are right here

eidt: one more time - if you cant choke your machine with your grinder then its not fine.


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## MWJB

skylark said:


> Already changed the beans. Machine 'could' have a problem but its not obviously doing anything wrong other than not pulling a shot properly. So, nothing technically wrong in my opinion.


If something is technically wrong, then it is technically wrong, whatever an opinion.

The machine can't pull a shot. You do that. It's just a kettle with a pump.

Set your grinder to finest, put 18.0g in the PF. Pull the shot.

How much do you get out?

How long does the pump run for?


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## Nicknak

@skylark

I would persevere and try and read all the above and take what you can from it .

If you still have problems raise a issue on the Sage website and harass them( they can be quite slow at answering)

They will then put you in touch will Coffee Classic engineers who deal with all the servicing/warranty stuff

I found coffee classic very good and having someone to talk to sometimes helps to understand etc .

I guess they have heard all the Sage problems by this time

/


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## ajohn

skylark said:


> Thanks but this is a Barista Express machine complete with grinder and gauge. Shots are, timewise, as they were when i COULD pull a decent shot. Now they're not. Technique hadnr changed yet i cant get a decent shot out if the machine, barely gets away from preinfusion pressure. Something aint right, just cant pin it down. Like i said, gronder is the onbiard one, settings on fine down to 1 only. I've been at 2 and still no go. Thats not the problem. It doesnt seem to want to pressure up but only when a shor is being pulled? I've cleaned the machine as suggested and it DID go to full pressure so could there be a pressure loss when pulling a shot? As i say, prep is exactly the same as previous pulls. Tamping 'seems ok', coffee in pf seems ok. Where next?


If your still around.

Beans can cause this sort of problem but I've only experienced it with what might be called supermarket beans. They came from a very high end supplier of cakes, chocolate, food hampers and etc plus in this case over priced Jamaican Blue Mountain.with a use within month date on them. Other sources of similar usually grind ok but often taste crap.







Some don't though. Not many.

Other than a grinder fault it might be worth emptying the hopper, putting back on and running the grinder until the grinder is empty. Then take a look inside with the outer burr removed. Don't hold out much hope as if it's clogged up I wouldn't expect it to cause it to suddenly start grinding coarser unless something big is stuck to one of the burrs. Oily beans might cause some problems but a number of kg of them didn't cause problems on mine. Then refit outer burr, hopper and run the grinder *briefly and manually *on a setting of 1. *Don't use the timer.* As mine came there was slight rubbing so the motor sounds a little busy and ran clear at 2. If too tight the motor will slow down very rapidly.

Don't try resetting it if this doesn't achieve anything. Report a fault. Mine currently has a similar problem. It took a while to find out what was happening as I couldn't get at my gear due to work on the house. I used a DTI to check for burr movement. The adjustment should move it up and down. I did some brewing with a setting of 10. Net result seems to be that it wont go any lower than that now but will go coarser. I'd normally be working at 6 to 8. In my case I suspect it goes back to when it was put together. There was a stiff spot at a setting of 4. That's now gone and the dial moves freely over the entire range. Thorough cleaning didn't help. That involves removing the centre burr as well.

I had already reported the fault but as it might be beans left it like that and then found it wasn't. I was asked some interesting questions by an engineer. They called back after I talked to Sage. Did I run the grinder when I adjusted it, Ans yes but Sage don't mention that. Actually I didn't providing it wasn't more than 1 click going finer. That's good practice on any grinder. The other was had I removed the inner burr. Yes I had because it's the only way to clean it thoroughly. I also fitted a new fibre washer.

Clearly these grinder will wear out eventually but as all machines with them included and even their grinders all work the same way at a basic level they can clearly last a long time. The adjustment is effectively a large worn wheel and the adjuster drives that via another small gear. Neither of these have broken in my case. I checked so something must be jammed. Pass on why or how.

Edit

Just a note for people who don't use a BE. The gauge is very useful as it can be used to re establish a tuning. The machine isn't really intender to brew against an open OPV like most are. It can be though but at the usual 9 to 10 bar the OPV doesn't open.







Sage told me when I mentioned that it can brew opv open that coffee usually dribbles out. It does need careful dosing and grinder adjustment but it will do it without too much going into the drip tray. At times I'd reckon on 200ml going into that for a 30 odd ml shot.

John

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