# Machine advice



## jen1979 (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi

I have had the pleasure of a Gaggia Classic for 4 years and as it is now making an occassional loud noise ( I am guessing the pump may be packing up) I fear it may soon be time to replace it.

I would like to know which home machine in your opinions is best at microfoam as this is my number one priority. Since taking off the big plastic frother from my classic and just using the small plastic teat I have virtually perfect microfoam everytime (after some practice!). I am also considering whether it is worth spending a bit extra to get bean to cup espresso. I don't really experiment with espresso and only evey drink latte so it is the microfoam that gets me going really!!

I would like to spend under £300 but will go higher if it is really worth doing so.

Thanks in advance


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

If you want to get a new machine, get on well with the classic and love latte I would suggest the rancilio silvia. It's the natural step up from a classic and has a much more powerful steam wand for making microfoam. Do you use a pressurised basket on the classic? I'm not sure you can get one for the silvia, so with that choice you would be confined to having to make decent espresso for the latte.


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## jen1979 (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi - no I don't use any special pressurised basket. Will look into the Rancilio thanks


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Why not replace the pump? They cost about a tenner and aren't hard to fit. There is a guy on here somewhere who does repairs on the Classic.

I've never used a Classic, so I don't know about it's steam power, but I did use a Silvia for 10 years. The steam power is adequate for a mug of coffee. I fitted a PID to mine, which was fantastic for consistent espresso. I don't really know what is around at the £450 mark, but there might be something better than the Silvia these days. When I bought mine it had few competitors.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't know whether the Silvia is a step up. It is a little better at steaming but I made the mistake of listening to various people on different boards and bought a Silvia despite three or four US websites saying that the Silvia and the Classic produce pretty much the same shots. Guess what, they were right and I had wasted my money. especially as I dislike milk and only drink espresso! If milk is a priority, for a little (very little) more than the Silvia you can get machines with double boilers and real pressure to make microfoam.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

If you are making excellent microfoam that you are happy with on your Gaggia then why not just replace any parts that are faulty and give it a service.

This would be cheaper than £300 and will allow you to continue to make



> virtually perfect microfoam every time


To increase the steam power of a Gaggia why not consider the Auber PID kit with steam control. This is around £80 and effectively turbo chargers the smallish boiler of the Gaggia to produce more steam by switching the heating elements on more rapidly.

If you are set on a new machine, a bigger boiler or dual boiler is key. Certainly the Silvia is an option but is also £435 new.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> If you are making excellent microfoam that you are happy with on your Gaggia then why not just replace any parts that are faulty and give it a service.
> 
> This would be cheaper than £300 and will allow you to continue to make
> 
> ...


How are you getting on with your PID? Is it good? Did you pay import tax? Am seriously contemplating it myself.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

xiuxiuejar said:


> How are you getting on with your PID? Is it good? Did you pay import tax? Am seriously contemplating it myself.


No import tax. Not too difficult to install but haven't used it yet as my Baby Class needs a new boiler and is currently in pieces.

I know Outlaw333 got one for the Silvia and heavily lacerated his fingers but couldn't get it to work.

I can report back when I get it up and running (hopefully this week).


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

thanks. I don't make it back to the UK very often but will order one to coincide with my next visit methinks!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Silvia + PID=







))))


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

xiuxiuejar said:


> thanks. I don't make it back to the UK very often but will order one to coincide with my next visit methinks!


Why not get it posted to Spain?


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> Why not get it posted to Spain?


Don't trust the Spanish Government with the import duties. They are desperater for revenue at present!


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

What exactly is a PID and why would you add one to your machine?

Dan


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

ObsidianSage said:


> What exactly is a PID and why would you add one to your machine?
> 
> Dan


http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=35


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

ObsidianSage said:


> What exactly is a PID and why would you add one to your machine?
> 
> Dan


 I PID'd my Classic (very good service from Auber - arrived quickly, not stung for import duties, clear instructions - easy to fit but don't rush it).

Two immediate advantages - firstly the temperature is much more stable and, secondly, you can adjust the brew temperature at the touch of a button.

It's in the nature of the design that a Classic will never be as temperature-stable as a bigger machine with an E61 group but the PID is a great improvement.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

A PID pulses in the power to keep the temperature stable, unlike a thermostat which clicks on and off, but , of course still carries on heating or cooling. This results in a temperature range of anything up to about 15 degrees, and renders coffee pretty disgusting and inconsistent, unless you apply the rather tiresome technique known as temperature surfing.

An E61 head has water circulating through it to keep the head hot, but of course that doesn't do anything to keep the brew water consistently hot. That is usually done by a heat exchanger, whereby the cold brew water passes through a little pipe, through the steam boiler, where it is heated to a reasonably consistent temp. You still need to draw off a bit of water if you haven't poured for 10 minutes or more as the water in the pipe does overheat. Heat exchanger models do not usually have a PID, as there is little point.

My current machine has a dedicated brew boiler with a PID (as well as a steam boiler). In theory, you can't out do this.

In terms of what ends up in the espresso cup, the Silvia with PID comes very close in terms of consistency, which is why I think the PID upgrade is really worth it.


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks guys. So, the PID is always a do-it-yourself mod is it. No-one sells machines with it already fitted?

And, do I take it that if I want to practice my espresso technique, pulling one shot after another, then if I don't have a PID fitted I won't know if any variations are down to me or erratic water temperature???

Dan


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Lots of Machines come with a built-in PID, Expobar, Izzo etc etc


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

Found both. Look like they might be a bit too expensive and I've only heard these names for the first time today.

Last night I was all set on a Fracino Picinno (other thread), today I'm getting distracted by the Silvia again, mostly because of the PID you can add to it, although I'm not sure I want to spend several hundred on a new machine then immediatley start pulling it apart to mod it.

I'm also planning on getting some proper barista training - a one day course or something. Would it be better to do this before buying new equipment? I had thought of getting the equipment first, so I could come straight home and start practicing, but now, I'm not so sure...

Dan


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Expobar and Izzo are both very well known and rather lusted after machines (I'd kill for a leva dual boiler) but they are £1000+

PID on a gaggia classic or rancilio silvia will make a difference, but not anywhere near as much as grinding correctly, dosing, tamping, etc.

Personally, I'd go with a second hand classic and some training.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

seeq said:


> PID on a gaggia classic or rancilio silvia will make a difference, but not anywhere near as much as grinding correctly, dosing, tamping, etc.
> 
> .


Have you used a PID on a Silvia or a Classic?


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Only on a classic


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I will have a PID on a Classic in a few days! Can't wait. Can also compare with my un-PIDed Baby Class.

Obsidian basically I think you want to get your barista skills up to scratch before venturing into the cafe/barista world?

If you are on a budget I honestly think you should consider the Nuova Simonelli Oscar.

Nothing in that price range can touch it in terms of steam power, temperature stability and shot consistency; even against a PID Silvia or Classic (I haven't used a PID Silvia so this is based entirely on what I've read online).


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

> Last night I was all set on a Fracino Picinno (other thread),


You won't go far wrong with a Piccino http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Coffee-at-Home.html Let me know if you are interested! Andy


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> I honestly think you should consider the Nuova Simonelli Oscar.


Can't see many UK suppliers of this machine. Need to be sure I could get parts and repairs done if needed...


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&isAmazonFulfilled=&marketplaceID=A1F83G8C2ARO7P&isCBA=&seller=A29EWB4IRELGTJ

This site has info of the only UK importer of NS Oscar (that I know of). They offer a 24 month warranty. Are you intending to break your machine often?

If you are concerned about repairs and spares then the only real choice for you is Fracino, being a UK company, but maybe save up and make the investment in the Cherub which is a heat exchanger machine and will more closely mimic commercial machines.

The Piccino would also be a great choice. If it had a PID it would be perfect for me.

Talk to coffeebean about the Piccino


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## ObsidianSage (Jan 30, 2012)

coffeebean - I sent you a PM


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## jen1979 (Feb 20, 2012)

Read all of this with great interest. I will certainly look into replacing the pump - sounds great advice, thanks all.


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