# Hand grinders, the top 5?



## Milanski

As title suggests.

Please list your experiences with hand grinders and their relative prices please so anyone that finds themselves with a gaggia classic for example and little budget for a grinder (until they wise up and save for one) can still make half decent espresso. Fresh beans are a given!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Porlex - reasonably priced around £30.00 - does the job.

Hausgrind - not cheap but a serious grinder capable of delivering the goods for pour over and espresso.


----------



## Phil104

I've been pleased with my Hario Slim - £30 from the Department of Coffee and Social Affairs but only used with an aeropress and stove top

http://departmentofcoffee.com/shop/


----------



## Milanski

Is the Porlex better than the Hario Slim?


----------



## davetucker

Phil104 said:


> I've been pleased with my Hario Slim - £30 from the Department of Coffee and Social Affairs but only used with an aeropress and stove top
> 
> http://departmentofcoffee.com/shop/


I got mine for £20 from Amazon (with Prime).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B001804CLY/ref=aa_ol_d

Great for pour over. Biggest issue with hand grinders for me is the adjustment. I find the wing nut is tricky to adjust as there are no markers to use as a reference - the hausgrinds dial seems a much better method IMO but I haven't had chance to play with one yet.

I switch between Wave, Chemex, Aeropress and Brikka depending on my mood so adjustability is a key factor for me.


----------



## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Porlex - reasonably priced around £30.00 - does the job.
> 
> Hausgrind - not cheap but a serious grinder capable of delivering the goods for pour over and espresso.


Hausgrind will choke an l1 no worries . Makes capable espresso ( proviso as long as you are not in a hurry to get one )


----------



## Daren

Mrboots2u said:


> Hausgrind will choke an l1 no worries . Makes capable espresso ( proviso as long as you are not in a hurry to get one )


Sounds link your missing your 4 second grind from the Mythos


----------



## MWJB

Milanski said:


> Is the Porlex better than the Hario Slim?


Not a lot in it, the Porlex Tall holds marginally more in the catch cup than the Hario Slim, but this won't be relevant to grinding


----------



## DavidBondy

The Rosco by Portaspresso is by far the best hand grinder that I have ever used. Fine, fluffy grounds and it grinds directly into the PF of both Portaspresso hand machines.

Costs more than many electric grinders but is built out of brass and is as solid as a tank!

It's got to go on the list!










David


----------



## Milanski

DavidBondy said:


> The Rosco by Portaspresso is by far the best hand grinder that I have ever used. Fine, fluffy grounds and it grinds directly into the PF of both Portaspresso hand machines.
> 
> Costs more than many electric grinders but is built out of brass and is as solid as a tank!
> 
> It's got to go on the list!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David


...and the price of the grinder delivered is...??


----------



## Mrboots2u

Where are they Pharos owners.......?


----------



## DavidBondy

Milanski said:


> ...and the price of the grinder delivered is...??


The Rosco is AU$450 (its smaller brother, the Rosco Mini is AU$360). Add another AU$60 for shipping and then VAT and Duty and you're probably talking about something in the region of £400!

If you've got friends or family down under then the shipping is a flat rate AU$25 and you guold probably get mailed over as a gift.

I bought a whole load of kit and it is brilliant. All of it!

David


----------



## Milanski

Mrboots2u said:


> Where are they Pharos owners.......?


My angle was actually an 'affordable' top 5 (shoulda put that in the title) for those saving for a decent grinder but it seems to be turning into the all time top 5!

Not a bad thing, maybe I should start another thread...


----------



## jeebsy

Patience, boots, patience. When the Beast from Bavaria arrives and you're grinding kilos in the blink of an eye the Mythos will be but a distant memory

*I know hamburg isn't in Bavaria but getting some alliteration was tough


----------



## Mrboots2u

Milanski said:


> My angle was actually an 'affordable' top 5 (shoulda put that in the title) for those saving for a decent grinder but it seems to be turning into the all time top 5!
> 
> Not a bad thing, maybe I should start another thread...


ok hausgrind is £120 would hold it's value better than a new mc2 . Is that still in ?


----------



## coffeechap

another thread another chance for the ek boys to chat it up


----------



## Mrboots2u

Not my fault ......


----------



## coffeechap

ha ha you engineer things boots


----------



## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> ha ha you engineer things boots


Me engineer

you enabler









i was talking about the hand grinder......


----------



## jeebsy

EKs+Hausgrind is for winners


----------



## Joe the fish

Ok I'll play...

porlex or hario are both about capable but not perfect for espresso and or pour over but for around the £30 mark you can't complain. (I kept the pork ex and sold on the hario)

However these cost my a total of £32 for the three... One is great for Aeropress one is ok all round and the other can choke my caravel (but does take forever to grind!)

For me at least they are nicer sat on the side than the porlex.

So I say a good condition quality vintage beats the other bargain offers... All that said I did just buy a mignon!


----------



## Neill

Joe the fish said:


> Ok I'll play...
> 
> porlex or hario are both about capable but not perfect for espresso and or pour over but for around the £30 mark you can't complain. (I kept the pork ex and sold on the hario)
> 
> However these cost my a total of £32 for the three... One is great for Aeropress one is ok all round and the other can choke my caravel (but does take forever to grind!)
> 
> For me at least they are nicer sat on the side than the porlex.
> 
> So I say a good condition quality vintage beats the other bargain offers... All that said I did just buy a mignon!


Did you buy these grinders in Australia?


----------



## Joe the fish

Damn... Every time! Apparently my phone and the picture upload are somewhat incompatible! Either that or it's my secret fines removal technique...


----------



## Daren

Handles on the bottom - not seen that before, must be good


----------



## The Systemic Kid

It's done with Velcro, isn't it?


----------



## Joe the fish

Shhhh you'll have everyone at it!


----------



## drude

Not really at the low cost end of things, but the HG-One is a pretty special hand grinder. I think they cost about £800 new with shipping and import duties.


----------



## Milanski

Ok, just to set things straight here, I think the Hausgrind should be the most expensive on the list as it's still cheaper than a good second hand SJ for instance.

So far, we have:

1. Hausgrind £130

2. Vintage Zassenhaus type £variable

3. Porlex/Hario £30

Any additions under £130?


----------



## coffeechap

second hand OE lido £90 or even a Pharos can be had for around £150


----------



## Milanski

OK revised list looks like this (*=used):

1. Pharos £150*

2. Knock Haugrind £120/£130

3. OE Lido £90*

4. Vintage Zassenhaus type £variable*

5. Hario/Porlex £30

There it is then. The top 5 capable hand grinders (listed by expense) for £150 or less. All espresso-capable but anything above the number 5 position will give greater consistency at espresso setting.


----------



## Doggycam

Pharos £150 !!! I've been robbed









Got my Pharos off ebay couple of weeks ago. Vast improvement in the cup over a Super Jolly.

Easy to set up, grinds very fast, but a pain to get the grinds out.

Titan class grinds from a midget sized package


----------



## oracleoftruth

What about hg one? Shouldn't that be at the top. Definitely a Titan hand grinder.


----------



## Neill

oracleoftruth said:


> What about hg one? Shouldn't that be at the top. Definitely a Titan hand grinder.


Great grinder but I think it misses the original idea of the op which was to provide a list of reasonably priced grinders if someone was looking for something to start out with.


----------



## oracleoftruth

Good point. That would be overkill for classic!


----------



## Neill

oracleoftruth said:


> Good point. That would be overkill for classic!


Ha, I'm probably getting one this year to go with my classic! Long game in mind though.


----------



## oop north

Neill said:


> Ha, I'm probably getting one this year to go with my classic! Long game in mind though.


Didn't take long for you to succumb


----------



## Neill

oop north said:


> Didn't take long for you to succumb


Ha, true. I've had my eye on one for a long time.


----------



## DavidBondy

Sorry to be a pain in the you know where but I do not think that these are all really espresso capable - you need to add the Rosco to ensure that!!


----------



## Charliej

DavidBondy said:


> Sorry to be a pain in the you know where but I do not think that these are all really espresso capable - you need to add the Rosco to ensure that!!


The Hausgrind is more than capable of espresso grinding David as are some of the vintage hand grinders, my 67 year old Zassenhaus still does a good job of espresso and brewed, and would most likely do Turkish if should ever feel the need.

The Pharos is also more than capable for espresso, if I remember correctly it uses the same burrs as your K10F. Even a Porlex, on some settings work for espresso in an emergency, in fact it is probably far better for that than a coarse grind for brewed.


----------



## Neill

DavidBondy said:


> Sorry to be a pain in the you know where but I do not think that these are all really espresso capable - you need to add the Rosco to ensure that!!


But it's too expensive for the list, it was meant to be a list of accessible grinders for those starting out.


----------



## aFiercePancake

I have had much success with vintage Dienes (PeDe) grinders. The only trick is to find one with the correct burrset. One is typically larger and coarser and cannot grind fine enough for espresso; the slightly smaller, finer burrset is fantastic for espresso and even Turkish coffee.










From left to right: My Dienes 550 is a workhorse. Everything about it, from the rear-mounted adjuster to the serviceable carrier is wonderful. The 543 is my favorite, but I unfortunately got the larger burrset, so it cannot be used for espresso. Lovely machine, though. The "88" is beautiful and its longer handle is very nice to use, but adjustment is inside and it is not as easily serviced as the 550.

This is what the larger burrset looks like:










The smaller burrs in my "88":










The best way to discern the two is to look at the distance between the shaft and a short edge at the top of the top burr.

I think I paid €20 for the 550. A little more for the 543. The PeDe 88 was the most expensive because it was in excellent condition and is highly sought: It cost something like €45. Still a bargain.

Disclaimer: I use my HG One at home.


----------



## Milanski

Nice addition to the thread. Thanks.


----------



## Flibster

You've also got the Hario Skerton. Pretty good for filter and ok for espresso.

But, the bearing surface is plastic and wears out. You can improve it for coarse grinding with a OE bearing, but it decreases the ability with the finer grinds.


----------



## ajh101

I love my Mignon for espresso. What is the best value hand grinder for an occasional Moka?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Guess something like a Porlex for around £30.00?


----------



## peacecup

I second the Dienes motion - they've been my daily drivers for 10 years (till I grabbed a hausgrind). If you can find one in decent condition, with the newer burr set (it has a 6-star pattern when viewed from above, versus a 5-star) they usually work for espresso. You can often see this in the ebay photos. Another clue is the italic Dienes font on the label. The older versions are not italic, and these I've found less useful for espresso.


----------



## kolorado

So I am in a 'between grinders' phase, and need something to get me through that will produce grinds suitable for espresso on my Rocket R58 until I am able to get my next electric grinder. I also spend a lot of time away from home in a shared rental property and am thinking of either getting an aeropress or possibly (if I find a place to stay where I trust my housemates!) moving my Pavoni up to the small shabby place where I live during the week. From what I can tell from this thread, if I want a portable hand grinder for less than £100 that will grind suitably for either of my machines, the best bets are a Porlex or a Hario? Is there anything else that someone would recommend over those two?


----------



## MWJB

I'd go Porlex rather than Hario Slim for very fine grinds, the reason being (on my Hario Slim anyway) there is only a small gap where the beans feed into the burrs at fine settings & they feed much easier on the Porlex. This can make the Hario much more laborious when grinding very fine, but it works great around 6 clicks plus out from lock up.

If you are entertaining either of these for espresso, you might find yourself developing a taste for singles ;-)


----------



## froggystyle

Anyone tried one of these yet?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Acrylic-Coffee-Grinder-Ceramic/dp/B00BD1NTTY/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1403879701&sr=8-13&keywords=coffee+grinders+hand


----------



## urbanbumpkin

No....Is it an elaborate bottle of coffee themed aftershave? Eau de PF


----------



## MWJB

froggystyle said:


> Anyone tried one of these yet?
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Acrylic-Coffee-Grinder-Ceramic/dp/B00BD1NTTY/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1403879701&sr=8-13&keywords=coffee+grinders+hand


Yes, but prefer the Slim or Skerton.


----------



## froggystyle

MWJB said:


> Yes, but prefer the Slim or Skerton.


Any difference in grind?


----------



## MWJB

froggystyle said:


> Any difference in grind?


Slim, Skerton & Clear have the same burrs, the Clear & Skerton seem to adjust in bigger increments than the Slim. The inner burr is better supported in the Slim.


----------



## froggystyle

Any good for pour over then?

Looking for a hand grinder for the office and quite like the look of this one!


----------



## MWJB

Yeah, the Slim works well enough for pourover & non inverted Aeropress around a turn out? A couple of clicks tighter for smaller French press. I use a finer grind in Clever & Aeropress steeps, so that's when I use the Porlex for.


----------



## froggystyle

Sorry i meant the one i posted a link too, i like the look of it and wouldn't mind it for the office, but if its no good for pour over then i wont bother.


----------



## MWJB

I'm sure it's fine for pourover, but are your desks/worktops glass smooth? If not, you won't get much benefit from the sucker thing, the grinds drawer has a habit of popping out during grinding if you're at all energetic. If you're grinding up to ~30g a go, I'd go for the Slim.


----------



## froggystyle

Slim it is then buddy!


----------



## nickmorrisrdg

There is lots of mention of vintage Zassenhauses - but what about a new one? - this looks pretty good for about £125 at whittard and cheaper elsewhere if you hunt:


----------



## CrazyH

nickmorrisrdg said:


> There is lots of mention of vintage Zassenhauses - but what about a new one? - this looks pretty good for about £125 at whittard and cheaper elsewhere if you hunt:


That's really nice!

So this morning my Porlex died after a few months of abuse, the shaft and crank have worn each-other down so much it is virtually impossible to grind anything, so I'm not sure if I can give it my vote. I can pick another up from round the corner but as I was thinking of getting a new grinder anyway, as I'm moving from 'rents place to a flat (leaving the porlex there). That Zassenhaus is tempting, but so is placing an order for Hausgrind. Will have to use the Delonghi electric for a short while.


----------



## MattDX

froggystyle said:


> Slim it is then buddy!


A good choice!


----------



## Plevis

Has anyone had any experience with the newer handheld Zass grinders like the Lima, Panama, Quito and Heidelberg?

They can be found for about £60-£70 which seems fair (especially in the absence of the impossible to get Hausgrind!). Some posts on HB seem to suggest that they're basically the same thing as the Commandante and therefore to be avoided...


----------



## Charliej

Plevis said:


> Has anyone had any experience with the newer handheld Zass grinders like the Lima, Panama, Quito and Heidelberg?
> 
> They can be found for about £60-£70 which seems fair (especially in the absence of the impossible to get Hausgrind!). Some posts on HB seem to suggest that they're basically the same thing as the Commandante and therefore to be avoided...


Anecdotally and if you have the time and patience to work your way through the Hand Grinder Jive thread over on HB then the newer versions of the Zassenhaus hand grinders are nowhere near as good as the old ones, mainly to do with the adjustment mechanism.


----------



## Plevis

Thanks Charlie. I've worked through quite a bit of that monster thread, but I think the full 126 pages of jive might have to wait...

Done a bit more research on the Zass handheld grinders, quite a bit of variation it seems... Amazon prices shown for reference only.

Just to point out that my interest in these is to find out whether there is anything in the "mid range" between the hario/porlex and Hausgrind/Lido and more specifically how they work as travel grinders for brewed methods.

Caffetiera - wooden outer, forged steel burrs, stepless adjustment, does the name suggest it's focused on brewed? Not much other info - £64 on Amazon now

Lima - ceramic burrs, looks stepless, plastic carriage, doesn't look too stable - closeup shots of the grind jar show an even mix of dust and boulders... Yuk. £57 on Amazon now

Panama - forged steel burrs (quite small around 22mm), stepless adjustment, this looks more stable and similar to the Heidelberg, which however doesn't appear too reliable in the long run (kaffe-netz.de etc.) £69 on Amazon now.

Quito - looks to be very similar in construction and principle to a Commandante, though the burrs look different - stepped adjustment, steel burrs - (I presume machined?), decent looking shaft bearings. £65 on Amazon now.

So in the interest of greater understanding, and my curiosity of course, I've ordered a Quito which I will write a review of when I've had some time with it. Was going to order from Germany (€76 Inc. Delivery) but its an unknown quantity so I've defaulted to Amazon in case a return is required.

No doubt this will be on the for sale forum when (or if) my hausgrind arrives!


----------



## CrazyH

The quito does look rather cute, doesn't look like it can hold much. 20g?

Here's the amazon german... http://www.amazon.de/Zassenhaus-41095-Kaffee-Espressom%C3%BChle-Edelstahl/product-reviews/B00BJPD4NA/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

From what I can tell, in general terms the grinding mechanisms on the new zassenhaus are good, but significant QC issues on other parts. If the quito is good it would be a good replacement for the prolex mini. Most likely I'm going to pretty much switching completely to the clever dripper so coarse grind maybe less of an issue. Would like to be able to grind for turkish occasionally, though.


----------



## DoubleShot

Not one mention for Rhinowares hand grinder? Considering the purchase of one along with an Aeropress until I land my first HX or DB machine.

It's either that, a Hario Skerton (almost half the cost of Rhinowares) or a Porlex as that gets mentioned quite a bit around the £30 price point.

Thoughts/recommendations please?


----------



## Neill

DoubleShot said:


> Not one mention for Rhinowares hand grinder? Considering the purchase of one along with an Aeropress until I land my first HX or DB machine.
> 
> It's either that, a Hario Skerton (almost half the cost of Rhinowares) or a Porlex as that gets mentioned quite a bit around the £30 price point.
> 
> Thoughts/recommendations please?


There is a rhino thread somewhere. I think it's thought to be a bit better than porlex/hario.


----------



## DoubleShot

Yes, I did read through the whole of Glen's Rhinowares thread, thanks.

Was surprised that it had no mention here. Although that might be because it hadn't hit the market until after this thread last had a reply?


----------



## aphelion

I've had a few of these now...some thoughts:-

Porlex - portable, great size, easy to use, burr wobble an issue the coarser you go, will just about do espresso (just about).

Rhino - basically a really good porlex (would be my choice under £90).

Lido 1 - great portable (just about) grinder. Quality grind, does both espresso and brewed really well. I love the "knocked up in a tool-shed" feel of it. Great.

Lido 2 - again, just an evolution of the Lido 1. Much heavier, it's a solid bit of kit, really well put together. Not as portable as the Lido 1 in my opinion. Great grind quality. I don't like the stock handle as much as on the Lido 1.

Pharos - amazing grind quality, heavy and unwieldy design, a pain in the butt to get the grinds out. However, grind quality i'd put it up against any electric espresso grinder up to £500 (maybe more).

Rosco Mini - still waiting for mine to turn up from Oz, but it promises a lot. Its a lot of money, grind quality should be approx equal to Lidos and Hausgrind I should think.

I've tried all the Hario ones, and I didn't like any of them (build quality/wobble etc.)

The Hausgrind and Feldgrind look really nice. I'd probably take a Feldgrind at £90 cos they are nice and portable.

If I was buying hand grinders again:-

£35 - Rhino

£90 - Feldgrind (probably - jury is out)

£140 - Hausgrind/Lido 2

£250 - Rosco Mini

p.s. if you can find a cheap second hand Lido 1, i'd personally jump all over it


----------



## DoubleShot

Appreciate your very detailed reply. Looks like it will be a Rhino hand grinder for me. Wanted to be sure before spending more on a hand grinder than for the Aeropress, itself.

Thanks.


----------



## aphelion

Yep, rhino is a good grinder for the money









Will do a better job at brewed than a porlex imo


----------



## urbanbumpkin

I don't know the Rosco but from what I know of the others I'd agree with the above.

If someone was looking for a hand grinder for an Aeropress I'd recommend the rhino over the porlex (which I love)


----------



## aphelion

The Rosco was an indulgence really..I doubt it will offer much above a Lido/Hausgrind

I just love shiny expensive stuff, and it's just very very bling!


----------



## Daren

DoubleShot said:


> Wanted to be sure before spending more on a hand grinder than for the Aeropress, itself.


Don't underestimate the difference a decent grinder makes. IMHO spend as much as you can afford on the grinder. Your coffee is only as good as the weakest link - the best your going to make out of your set up is what a £30 grinder will produce


----------



## 2971

aphelion said:


> The Rosco was an indulgence really..I doubt it will offer much above a Lido/Hausgrind
> 
> I just love shiny expensive stuff, and it's just very very bling!


I got on far better with the Rosco mini than the Pharos. Perhaps the Pharos wasn't aligned properly, who knows, but it's not really possible to screw up the Rosco's alignment. My Rosco is no longer shiny, it's tarnished through lots and lots of use! Sweaty hands, probably. The only thing is that it's quite hard work with a light roast bean.


----------



## 7493

I'm getting on very well with Wintoid's Pharos and the stock one I also own. Not convinced by any of the smaller hand grinders for Espresso although, if you have the patience, the Rosco has a lot of fans.


----------



## aphelion

wintoid said:


> I got on far better with the Rosco mini than the Pharos. Perhaps the Pharos wasn't aligned properly, who knows, but it's not really possible to screw up the Rosco's alignment. My Rosco is no longer shiny, it's tarnished through lots and lots of use! Sweaty hands, probably. The only thing is that it's quite hard work with a light roast bean.


For espresso?


----------



## 2971

Yeah for espresso. I've tried drip once or twice, but haven't yet got the hang of it, and I tend to reach for the espresso


----------



## DoubleShot

Not sure how long a stop gap the Aeropress and Rhino hand grinder will be before I lay my hands on my first HX or DB machine to go with my Caedo E37?


----------



## panna_cota

I'm a graceful girl, so that for its part, I can say that such a Hand Coffee Grinderdoesn`t require much effort, so it's my number 1


----------



## roteiro

What do you think about Mahlkonig grinders? I am thinking of getting one of those for my uncle as a Christmas present. He is a coffee enthusiast, and it is very important for me to make him a nice present


----------



## Daren

roteiro said:


> What do you think about Mahlkonig grinders? I am thinking of getting one of those for my uncle as a Christmas present. He is a coffee enthusiast, and it is very important for me to make him a nice present


I think a) it's not a handgrinder and b) you appear to be linking all your posts to the coffee hit website....


----------



## Glenn

CoffeeHit has been notified about the actions of *roteiro* and *panna_cota*



*
*We fully support linking to Coffee Forums UK Sponsors such as CoffeeHit as that really does help - but they must be proportional. 3 out of 4 posts linking to a sponsor is not helpful

Any endorsed member accounts will display an Advertiser badge


----------



## themark01

It is £20.00 around


----------

