# Aillio bullet R1 roaster pre- orders



## "coffee 4/1"

got me eye on this,pre-orders for bullet R1 up now,$1.500.00 looks like bella-barista in stock soon,


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## froggystyle

Wow, liking the look of that.

Lots of specs the big cbr1200 is lacking on, and if that cost is right, a hell of a lot cheaper!

Where did you pick up that BB will be stocking it?


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## "coffee 4/1"

had email yesterday, look for distributors on Aillio web site, certainly looks the biz.


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## froggystyle

Yeah just having a look now.

Fears are build quality for me, have seen the CBR1200 up close and even fired a batch off, that machine is built very well, this one, not sure looking at photos.

However the lure of connecting to a pc, adjusting drum speed and inside drum temp are very tempting.


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## ronsil

That looks a very copious roaster. Amazing listed price for what's on offer.

Will be taking a closer look if it reaches BB.

Seems to offer, ready built-in, all the control I have added to my Hottops.

Final price & build are the obvious considerations.


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## "coffee 4/1"

ye the twin brothers developing the bullet are confident enough to hit the trade show circuit, first is SCAA event in Seattle in April,

what looks a good feature is it compensates for input voltage changes for consistent roasts.


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## froggystyle

Had a good read on the site now, couple of things concern me..

1. Cant see anywhere to connect a vent pipe, so only outdoor roasting or in a well vented room?

2. Daily Capacity 3kg??

3. Max temp 250c, although not sure i have ever roasted that high.

4. Roasting data will be collected by Aillio, so guess you have to connect to the web at some point to use the software, although it is free which is a bonus.

But apart from the above, i really like the look of this, and been reading some answers to questions raised an another roasting forum, sounds the nuts!

I want one...


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## "coffee 4/1"

I want one, that makes two, unfortunately could be a bit of a wait from B-B,email from claudette they will take one to review it then assess to see if it is something they would want to stock,


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## hotmetal

Roasting data will be collected by Aillio? Have we gone from Rattleware to spyware? Only joking - I suppose it could be quite useful to have a big database of who roasts what to what level. But surely that would also depend on whether they can also tell the ambient temp and exactly what beans you're roasting? And in the case of people who blend before roasting, the exact blend details? And what other data di they get? Serial number of machine that identifies you and reports back on how much coffee you drink? Will you then receive targeted advertisements offering you exactly the coffee they think you want, in the quantity you need, at the time they predict you'll have run out? What happens if it gets infected by malware and orders you a Starbucks subscription?


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## sjenner

froggystyle said:


> Had a good read on the site now, couple of things concern me..
> 
> 1. Cant see anywhere to connect a vent pipe, so only outdoor roasting or in a well vented room?
> 
> 2. Daily Capacity 3kg??
> 
> 3. Max temp 250c, although not sure i have ever roasted that high.
> 
> 4. Roasting data will be collected by Aillio, so guess you have to connect to the web at some point to use the software, although it is free which is a bonus.
> 
> But apart from the above, i really like the look of this, and been reading some answers to questions raised an another roasting forum, sounds the nuts!
> 
> I want one...


I emailed Aillio about the 3kg froggy... It means that it has been built to handle a duty cycle of 3kg, and to denote that this is not a 24/7 roaster. The company also suggest that the roaster will overheat during use and will need to be cooled between batches.

It has been built to a price...

I suppose as long as a customer knows this, it is not a problem... I have seen a figure of 1500 somethings mentioned....

For a 1kg roaster that is very reasonably priced, in any currency.


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## froggystyle

hotmetal said:


> Roasting data will be collected by Aillio? Have we gone from Rattleware to spyware? Only joking - I suppose it could be quite useful to have a big database of who roasts what to what level. But surely that would also depend on whether they can also tell the ambient temp and exactly what beans you're roasting? And in the case of people who blend before roasting, the exact blend details? And what other data di they get? Serial number of machine that identifies you and reports back on how much coffee you drink? Will you then receive targeted advertisements offering you exactly the coffee they think you want, in the quantity you need, at the time they predict you'll have run out? What happens if it gets infected by malware and orders you a Starbucks subscription?


Wear a hat made from tinfoil when roasting, that will stop them collecting data!


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## froggystyle

sjenner said:


> I emailed Aillio about the 3kg froggy... It means that it has been built to handle a duty cycle of 3kg, and to denote that this is not a 24/7 roaster. The company also suggest that the roaster will overheat during use and will need to be cooled between batches.
> 
> It has been built to a price...
> 
> I suppose as long as a customer knows this, it is not a problem... I have seen a figure of 1500 somethings mentioned....
> 
> For a 1kg roaster that is very reasonably priced, in any currency.


Thanks Stephen, for the home user i guess its not a real problem only roasting 3kg per day.

I do think the price will be reflected in the product, the gene is a very well built product but then it is £4k!


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## hotmetal

froggystyle said:


> Wear a hat made from tinfoil when roasting, that will stop them collecting data


Are you sure that will have sufficient deflection powers to ensure no one ever sends me Starbucks roast? You can't be too careful...


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## froggystyle

hotmetal said:


> Are you sure that will have sufficient deflection powers to ensure no one ever sends me Starbucks roast? You can't be too careful...


Then you may need to go a step further...


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## "coffee 4/1"

hope it's going well,beta testing at B.B august possibility, it's looking the nuts now, updated bluetooth & lights.


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## froggystyle

Site is now saying first deliveries will be second quarter of 2015, Facebook page mentions september..

Keeping any eye on this one.


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## The Systemic Kid

Looks like the Quest in many respects only more sophisticated in respect of temp control and amounts you can roast.


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## froggystyle

Looks cool i think, one of the better looking little roasters out there.

Its just the quality of that build for me, will be very interested to have a go one one if BB get a trial.


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## "coffee 4/1"

not looking good, refunding paypal pre-orders, re-order through Aillio site, risky full payment, non-refundable, lost interest now.


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## froggystyle

Covered by Credit card though?


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## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> Covered by Credit card though?


My advice to forum members would be to avoid pre-orders. Wait until one is properly tested in the field, it takes a while to really test a roaster. It's also important the test is done properly and by someone knowledgeable and independent.


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## forzajuve

DavecUK said:


> It's also important the test is done properly and by someone knowledgeable and independent.


You getting your hands on one to test for us all?


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## DavecUK

forzajuve said:


> You getting your hands on one to test for us all?


I have already been asked to test another 1kg roaster (quite a heavy one) and my back has had real problems for the last month...so have been delaying that test. *As yet I have not been asked to test an Alio Bullet roaster....but would be quite interested in testing one as it may give the home market a decent home roaster with a realistic 500g - 1kg capacity. The problem, as always, is time.*

*
*

My warning was because I have tested a LOT of bad roasters, also some good ones, but where modifications had to be made. It's also not just about how well they roast, but how easy/practical they are to maintain, parts availability and price, longevity and ease of use (incorporating operation and location/venting). One overriding area is of course safety and durability. Just because something has a CE rating, doesn't make it safe/good in my eyes. it means legally it can be sold in the UK and is "safe" in law. Me, I like to have a bloody good look round a roaster.

When I test/review, in general I have 2 overriding considerations.

1. Is it a decent product to bring to market and will it serve the end users well

2. Is it something any company I am testing for *really* wants to be selling, is it a fit and proper product for their portfolio

There are 2 types of review, the one you guys never see and it never gets sold and the one you see, which if a company decides to sell it, is the one that's published in it's entirity and not edited. *It's then up to the reader to decide if I am biased or not.*


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## NickR

What bothers me about the Alio is that I cant see any way of venting the smoke to the outside. It was bad enough with a Hottop roasting only 250 grams, I hate to think what 1kg would be like.


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## DavecUK

NickR said:


> What bothers me about the Alio is that I cant see any way of venting the smoke to the outside. It was bad enough with a Hottop roasting only 250 grams, I hate to think what 1kg would be like.


Nick, I agree, one of the big concerns I have is no venting, I suspect the airflow in the roaster is by necessity quite low because of trying to achieve good roast times with relatively low powered elements. This in itself would lead to other issues.

I do have other concerns, but we shall see when someone gets one.

P.S. 1 Kg would be like, you'd have to roast outside...and I mean outside, not in a shed!


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## EricC

Video showing an almost finalised version of the Alio roasting at a show.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=443252332526694


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## Coffeejon

NickR said:


> What bothers me about the Alio is that I cant see any way of venting the smoke to the outside. It was bad enough with a Hottop roasting only 250 grams, I hate to think what 1kg would be like.


I asked them about this, they said that you can connect a part to the vent to vent out the smoke. They are not making them to order yet and they will 3d print them on request. The more people that ask then the more they will be interested in producing this part, as I agree what the hell happens to 1KG of beans smoke! (BTW I need a 80mm pipe vent)

Here's the reply

"

The adapter will have to be ordered separately as we do not want to keep them in stock- for a bunch of reasons, but mainly because its not a popular item, and because of the many different sizes.

I will find out before shipping if anyone else is interested, and I will make some.

Lately what we have done is to turn the exhaust fan to full power just before dumping the beans, and then cooling them as fast as possible. This releases the least amount of smoke, and has not been a problem for us.

You could connect an additional exhaust pipe for the cooling tray if the above does not work. Also really depends on how dark you roast them. and batch size of course."


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## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> "
> 
> 1. The adapter will have to be ordered separately as we do not want to keep them in stock- for a bunch of reasons, but mainly because its not a popular item, and because of the many different sizes.
> 
> I will find out before shipping if anyone else is interested, and I will make some.
> 
> 2 Lately what we have done is to turn the exhaust fan to full power just before dumping the beans, and then cooling them as fast as possible. This releases the least amount of smoke, and has not been a problem for us.
> 
> You could connect an additional exhaust pipe for the cooling tray if the above does not work. Also really depends on how dark you roast them. and batch size of course."


1. Is a FU reply, complete excuse, they only have to have 1 size, not multiple sizes of exit pipe diameter, so total rubbish?????

2. Err having *significant *experience of 1kg and larger roasters, most of the smoke is released in the last part of roasting and what is released before that probably isn't good to breathe in. I liken their reply to urinating on a plant that has caught fire near a burning house and saying it significantly reduces the damage to the property as a whole.

It does look a good roaster on paper and the 500g roasts in the videos look OK, but that doesn't account for how they taste, how it does 1kg loads and how they taste. Also how the roaster fares over a much longer period of use and especially with darker roasts. I understand (from comments on this forum) they recommend roasting only 3kg in a day...I don't even understand if this is back to back roasting or just 3kg per day. Indeed will back to back roasting be a problem, how does it respond and what happens over a long period of time.

I think the induction heating is potentially a great idea, even though it changes the thermal dynamic somewhat from more conventional designs...this could be a great roaster, or it might be more like another American roaster I won't mention, where the promise was perhaps more than it delivered..

From my own personal experience of my current roaster on test, the designers/manufacturers of roasters don't always make the best decisions and often they are happy if something works just OK, rather than excellent. I have found myself having to make significant demands on a redesign of certain elements, even so far as having to tell them *exactly what and how to do it!*

So yes I understand the pre-order price (1584 euro) is a great saving and supposedly you will save 416 euro on the final price of 2400 euro...that's £300 BUT, if there are problems, or need for major design changes, then that £300 saving won't seem like very much. it also strikes me they want to grab all the sales they can directly from their website with the pre-orders and then go to retailers later so that as future trickle orders happen they have an in country presence of spares and support. I am not sure the retailers are going to love that situation, especially as Allilio can do a direct sales deal and undercut the retailers any time they like.


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## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> 1. Is a FU reply, complete excuse, they only have to have 1 size, not multiple sizes of exit pipe diameter, so total rubbish?????
> 
> 2. Err having *significant *experience of 1kg and larger roasters, most of the smoke is released in the last part of roasting and what is released before that probably isn't good to breathe in. I liken their reply to urinating on a plant that has caught fire near a burning house and saying it significantly reduces the damage to the property as a whole.
> 
> It does look a good roaster on paper and the 500g roasts in the videos look OK, but that doesn't account for how they taste, how it does 1kg loads and how they taste. Also how the roaster fares over a much longer period of use and especially with darker roasts. I understand (from comments on this forum) they recommend roasting only 3kg in a day...I don't even understand if this is back to back roasting or just 3kg per day. Indeed will back to back roasting be a problem, how does it respond and what happens over a long period of time.
> 
> I think the induction heating is potentially a great idea, even though it changes the thermal dynamic somewhat from more conventional designs...this could be a great roaster, or it might be more like another American roaster I won't mention, where the promise was perhaps more than it delivered..
> 
> From my own personal experience of my current roaster on test, the designers/manufacturers of roasters don't always make the best decisions and often they are happy if something works just OK, rather than excellent. I have found myself having to make significant demands on a redesign of certain elements, even so far as having to tell them *exactly what and how to do it!*
> 
> So yes I understand the pre-order price (1584 euro) is a great saving and supposedly you will save 416 euro on the final price of 2400 euro...that's £300 BUT, if there are problems, or need for major design changes, then that £300 saving won't seem like very much. it also strikes me they want to grab all the sales they can directly from their website with the pre-orders and then go to retailers later so that as future trickle orders happen they have an in country presence of spares and support. I am not sure the retailers are going to love that situation, especially as Allilio can do a direct sales deal and undercut the retailers any time they like.


Well duno if you've ever produced a product from scratch (I have) if extremely difficult and a huge risk and so very very easy to criticize before it's even lauched. Yes, it probably does need a few iterations to get it right. However, as a 'Pre-order,er,"







I think this machine has so much potential I felt it was worth the risk. No, it probably won't get it right first time around, but who knows it may just be a great start & better then other machines on the market?!


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## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> Well duno if you've ever produced a product from scratch (I have) if extremely difficult and a huge risk and so very very easy to criticize before it's even lauched. Yes, it probably does need a few iterations to get it right. However, as a 'Pre-order,er,"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this machine has so much potential I felt it was worth the risk. No, it probably won't get it right first time around, but who knows it may just be a great start & better then other machines on the market?!


I understand what you're saying but:


How do they know the part required to vent smoke is not a "popular item"?

Why do they think it needs to be manufactured in different sizes, no one else ever does that with vent attachments and a range of duct reducers/enlargers are fully available

They really expect you to believe some magic with the fan in the cooling tray is going to significantly reduce smoke!


Sure I have only helped develop products from scratch, not made them myself, but really when designing a roaster, the venting is such a basic requirement. It just seemed like they were taking the piss a bit with their reply. I agree the roaster could be great and I hope yours is, I am especially looking forward to reading reviews of the roaster. I just hope their attitude to venting has not permeated to other aspects of the roaster (e.g. no Tryer)


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## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> I understand what you're saying but:
> 
> 
> How do they know the part required to vent smoke is not a "popular item"? -( They probably don't, as I doubt they have conducted any research, they have probably just designed it how they see it. Still, as long as you could add one later, when/if people demand it, shouldn't be a biggy (as long as it works!)-
> 
> Why do they think it needs to be manufactured in different sizes, no one else ever does that with vent attachments and a range of duct reducers/enlargers are fully available -(Probably was the first thing that came into his head, as yes sure they just need one size and people can adapt. I'll suggest this to them.)-
> 
> They really expect you to believe some magic with the fan in the cooling tray is going to significantly reduce smoke! -(Here I agree with you. If this is a problem I'm going to fit an oven extraction fan so it can be a full steam when the beans come out of the roaster!)-
> 
> 
> Sure I have only helped develop products from scratch, not made them myself, but really when designing a roaster, the venting is such a basic requirement. It just seemed like they were taking the piss a bit with their reply. I agree the roaster could be great and I hope yours is, I am especially looking forward to reading reviews of the roaster. I just hope their attitude to venting has not permeated to other aspects of the roaster (e.g. no Tryer)


- Again agree with you, but it's always hard to cover everything in your first iteration. This is why companies spend so much on research, to make sure they've covered all the bases. I'm sure these guys haven't got any kind of budget. Fingers crossed & I'm actually more worried about it actually being produced this year!


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## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> - Again agree with you, but it's always hard to cover everything in your first iteration. This is why companies spend so much on research, to make sure they've covered all the bases. I'm sure these guys haven't got any kind of budget. Fingers crossed & I'm actually more worried about it actually being produced this year!


I think it will almost certainly get produced this year...well they said last Qtr which could be Dec 2015 thru Mar 2016. They seem to have come a long way to not produce the product.


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## whattodo

As of 27th Oct. coil is out from production.

https://www.facebook.com/AillioOfficial/


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## whattodo

Here is the first Bullet dedicated forum.

http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=5ce75d864f2b094c223f79297c33d7bc;wwwRedirect


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## "coffee 4/1"

i see there's only 15 roasters by December, looks like a long wait out side pre order, there still messing with electronic features, now have auto-start for ambient temp when beans added, 3 new exhaust adapters,

and there's more, now no bluetooth, working with cropster to integrate software. glad they sorted the induction coil out which was upwards of 450v, that sounds warm.


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## Coffeejon

Update on smoke adapters, doesn't sound promising









coffeejon

Please let us know, as I understand, the temp of hot air coming from the Bullet will be 180-240c and that will melt a 3d printed part for the exhaust part, as 60c max i've been told. How do you suggest creating this part & why can you not supply the part?

  

Aillio Thanks for the feedback. If we decided to go down this path, you will be the first to know. Unfortunately a plastic tooling for this parts are around 8,000US$ so I need to know there will be a high enough demand.

I can report that the 3D printed ABS part I am using has held up without any problems.

coffeejon Ok thx for reply. I'll look into ABS. Maybe you could send out a mail to all who have pre-ordered and ask them? I again would have no problem pre-ordering if you need the upfront tooling costs.

coffeejon Ok, been told ABS should take 100c at a part cost of £100-£150!!!! They told me I need 'Altem' which can take 200c at a part cost of £200-£250! This is rather expensive for a small part. Please re-consider producing this part, as this is very expensive for your customers to pay for a part which really should be part of the machine. Thank youhttps://www.facebook.com/AillioOffi...&total_comments=5&comment_tracking={"tn":"R"}

Aillio One thing is what the Datasheet says, another thing is real world testing. Deflection temp of common ABS is around 100degree C. But only one side is exposed to the high temperature, thus nothing is going to melt.

Shapeways.com can 3D print one in porcelain for around 50 bucks if you worry about the thing melting. I am sure there are a few guys here who has a 3D printer that can print ABS who would probably be willing to help out. Material costs would be less than 3 bucks.


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## Coffeejon

\ said:


> now no bluetooth,


Where did you see this?


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## Dylan

My 3d printer prints ABS, it's softening point is 112deg C and its melting point is 250deg C.

I can print you a part if you would like me to, may be worth testing the temperature at the point of contact.


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## Coffeejon

Hi Dylan

That sounds great! I need the 80mm part.

https://aillio.com/?ddownload=12778

I can PM you my address if you can print it & can pay postage if you want. Duno if I'll get the roaster until dec or later, but can report back on part when I get it. Thx


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## Dylan

No problem, It's a small part so shouldn't cost much to print, I'll let you know the cost when I can load it into my printers software. Do feel free to bug my by PM if I forget, as it is more than likely I will!


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## whattodo

Coffeejon said:


> Where did you see this?


I read it here.

http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1e0216ce7be4a86f95ecbb78a85edee5&topic=9232.msg9939;topicseen#new


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## Coffeejon

whattodo said:


> I read it here.
> 
> http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=1e0216ce7be4a86f95ecbb78a85edee5&topic=9232.msg9939;topicseen#new


umm says " Bluetooth wont be used to start with. Only computers can be connected. They want to make that work before moving on to making an app."

phew, means it won't be working initially, but will work at a later date. i really need the BT, so that's good news!


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## Jens_Muff

Coffeejon said:


> umm says " Bluetooth wont be used to start with. Only computers can be connected. They want to make that work before moving on to making an app."
> 
> phew, means it won't be working initially, but will work at a later date. i really need the BT, so that's good news!


This

I was the one who talked to Jonas, and he said the Bullet already has a "bluetooth unit" (don't know the technical term) but they take one step at a time starting with the PC software.


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## froggystyle

Newsletter with some updates, this covers the three types of exhaust adapters.

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d3e63b3e46104e3c90a9cdfaa&id=4ecf098ad5&e=


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## Coffeejon

Dylan said:


> No problem, It's a small part so shouldn't cost much to print, I'll let you know the cost when I can load it into my printers software. Do feel free to bug my by PM if I forget, as it is more than likely I will!


Thanks Dylan, money sent across for the 80mm Bullet smoke exhaust part. Look fwd to seeing it, will let you know when it arrives. Thx again for help


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## Dylan

No problem. Let me know how it fits as ABS can shrink a bit, but hopefully the tolerances aren't that tight.


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## whattodo

I placed my pre-order yesterday.







Unfortunately, the price of the Bullet was slightly increased.


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## froggystyle

@Coffeejon have you got one then?


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## froggystyle

whattodo said:


> I placed my pre-order yesterday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the price of the Bullet was slightly increased.


How much if you don't mind me asking?


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## whattodo

froggystyle said:


> How much if you don't mind me asking?


It was 1320 €. Now it is 1400 € plus shipping. However the shipping is not clear yet. I was told that it could be between 200-300 €.


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## froggystyle

And that 1400 euro is locked in for first available unit?


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## whattodo

I believe yes. I was told the retail price would be more than 2000 €.


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## froggystyle

So when do they ship?

Where are you based?


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## whattodo

Shipping date? is not clear yet. Will see. Hope that it becomes available soon. Looking forward to use it.

Currently in Turkey.


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## whattodo

There is an Aillio's first roasting event in Taipei as announced @

https://m.facebook.com/events/147512665608597/?ref=6&ref_notif_type=plan_edited&action_history=null&src=email_notif

I wish I would be there.


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## Coffeejon

Dylan said:


> No problem. Let me know how it fits as ABS can shrink a bit, but hopefully the tolerances aren't that tight.


Hi Dylan, got the part, so thanks allot. Think if anybody has a CAD package that we would need to extend the tube part another 50mm so it fits snuggly onto a flex duct. Once got my bullet will report back.


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## Coffeejon

froggystyle said:


> @Coffeejon have you got one then?


No, not yet. I ordered it back in June, so no idea where I am on the list. I would like it soon, but probably wiser to get the 2nd production run, so they can iron out some issues with first batch.


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## froggystyle

Where are you based?


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## Dylan

Coffeejon said:


> Hi Dylan, got the part, so thanks allot. Think if anybody has a CAD package that we would need to extend the tube part another 50mm so it fits snuggly onto a flex duct. Once got my bullet will report back.


Lmk, I can modify the design.


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## RasmusDJ

I have also ordered one, and hoping to get it in Q1, I ordered in April so I should be early on the list.

Aillio is holding the event in taipei, and as far as what Jonas has told, there might be a similar event in Copenhagen around christmas, though there will be restricted access on the event. But I will be there, and will ofcause put up a couple of pictures and a review.


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## froggystyle

Need someone in the uk to get one so i can have a play!!


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## RasmusDJ

I'll let you know how it is


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## RasmusDJ

Its now confirmed that Aillio (Jonas and Jacob) is coming to Copenhagen, and there will be a small event. The event will be for the people in Copenhagen that has preordered it, through (Bønneklubben), a Danish association that's buying green beans together. The event will be hosted at The Factory, with Michael de Renouard, who is a certified SCAE trainer and Loring ambassador. He has no commercial interest in the roaster, which is really good. Also there might be a couple of people who has a commercial interest in selling the roaster.

After the event, there will be lots of pictures and review with more on bulletr1.com as there will be lots to talk about.

It's really appreciated that Aillio and Michael are taking there time for this event. ?


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## Coffeejon

Can you kindly ask them for some kind of update of delivery, as was initially suggested it should be shipping now, so would be good to know their updated thoughts. Thx


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## RasmusDJ

As far as I know, they will start shipping in January, but I will ask them what the prognose is for them to start shipping.


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## RasmusDJ

There is an event going on right now in Taipei, Aillio is broadcasting it live at

https://livehouse.in/en/channel/390674


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## froggystyle

Need to point the camera at something interesting, all i can see is people looking at something interesting!


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## RasmusDJ

When I posted the link, they where focusing on the Roaster, where they have been roasting 2-3kg so far. They will probably be doing it again, at some point.


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## DavecUK

I have been quietly surprised at the patience of their customers and potential customers on faceboook, there has not really been any posts on their page about the delivery timescales for some time now. The last post I see where someone asks about delivery timescales is around 1 month ago?


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## RasmusDJ

Well, I cand only tell that they are working 24h a day on the roaster, and that doesnt leave much time for the press, unfortunately. Latest I have heard, is that it will be shipping in Q1, fingers crossed. I will be attending a similar even in Copenhagen on Tuesday 22 december. I will ask a bit more about it, and post picture with more at the bullet r1 forum.


----------



## Coffeejon

I agree with Dave, I originally got told Q3/4 2015 for delivery. I don't need to see endless videos of talking roasters, all I want to know now is a firm delivery date, as it is very vague if non existant. Please ask them to solely focus on this communication issue. Thx Rasmus


----------



## RasmusDJ

I will pass the information on to them.

Personally, I would rather have a delivery date 2Q late, and then most of the starting issues are gone. My feeling is, that Aillio have high demands for them self and want it to be perfect.

Just to clarify, I don't have any involvement with the Bullet, I'm just a passionate home roaster, who is really looking forward to it


----------



## Coffeejon

RasmusDJ said:


> I will pass the information on to them.
> 
> Personally, I would rather have a delivery date 2Q late, and then most of the starting issues are gone. My feeling is, that Aillio have high demands for them self and want it to be perfect.
> 
> Just to clarify, I don't have any involvement with the Bullet, I'm just a passionate home roaster, who is really looking forward to it


Hi Rasmus, yes don't worry I know your not involved










I agree with you, I'd prefer a issue less machine, but it's more a mater of poor communication on their part. They just need a 'real' update to ease the growing frustration.

Well done for the Bullet forum and great that you can feel you can talk to them! Best wishes Jon


----------



## RasmusDJ

But I can only agree with you, there has been way to little information from them. There are so many people who had ordered, that's just waiting without any news. I will be attending a Aillio event on Tuesday, where I will ask them, and let them know, they should be a lot more gentle with the updates.


----------



## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> I agree with Dave, I originally got told Q3/4 2015 for delivery. I don't need to see endless videos of talking roasters, all I want to know now is a firm delivery date, as it is very vague if non existant. Please ask them to solely focus on this communication issue. Thx Rasmus


My additional point is that when a large number of people pre-order something, facebook would normally have lots of comments saying where is it....but nothing like that for a month. My guess would be that these comments are being removed!

Of course they should give updates, far better to get the truth than some half assed crap about delivery dates. I still think people should wait on ordering until a production one is independently tested and not assume any problems will be retrospectively fixed. look what happened with the roaster vent fitting, what about a fitting on the cooling tray, you get smoke and chaff bits from there as well. Will there really be a tryer on the roaster, as I do see a few technical problems achieving this, unless their published diagrams/renders are misleading.

You might also wait to see what in country support you will get as they are hoovering up a bulk of initial sales, how interested will retailers be. Realistically, they probably are not making to many retail friends at the moment.

Lastly the roaster is very software dependent and contains some quite bespoke technology. If they go bust at some point in the future...what protection do you have. Who will own the source code and plans. If Retailers had been involved from the beginning, this would all have been covered off for you, as they would check such issues and production of parts, flashing of firmware etc.. could most likely continue.

They seem pretty confident you can roast indoors and the roaster can contain a fire with 1kg of beans......are you!

Lots and lots of questions....my feeling is it should be quite a good home roaster product...but that's just a feeling.


----------



## Coffeejon

Hear you Dave, in for a penny in for a pound, gulp

As I've mentioned before, the problem for me is there is nothing else out there like it. I want some kind of automation & preferably not as much cash as the Gene Cafe. If the Bullet works out, I'll probably buy another, though as you clearly state there are lots of unknowns to address.


----------



## Dylan

DavecUK said:


> My additional point is that when a large number of people pre-order something, facebook would normally have lots of comments saying where is it....but nothing like that for a month. My guess would be that these comments are being removed!


Perhaps the cynic in you is right, I would prefer to think people are simply starting to understand the nature of a kickstarter project. More an more these days when someone posts "when will it be ready" it is met with derision and others telling them to be patient and understand things get delayed.

Everything gets delayed these days, from games, and especially Kickstarter projects (has one ever been delivered on time?)


----------



## DavecUK

Dylan said:


> Perhaps the cynic in you is right, I would prefer to think people are simply starting to understand the nature of a kickstarter project. More an more these days when someone posts "when will it be ready" it is met with derision and others telling them to be patient and understand things get delayed.
> 
> Everything gets delayed these days, from games, and especially Kickstarter projects (has one ever been delivered on time?)


I love this channel, subscribed a long time ago..covers lots of Kickstarter products., sure it's light entertainment but with a serious undercurrent.






With the Bullet roast, I do think it's a worthwhile product, has lots of potential and for people who want to move away from that 250g-275g limitation of something like a small Gene, then it could be ideal....could be...


----------



## froggystyle

*Want, Want, Want....

*Price dependent.


----------



## Dylan

DavecUK said:


> I love this channel, subscribed a long time ago..covers lots of Kickstarter products., sure it's light entertainment but with a serious undercurrent.


Kickstarter needs some type of regulation.. and badly. I recently put £20 toward some 'biltong beef'. After the campaign was successful (to the tune of £13k) the guy who ran it said he had made a mistake with postage and asked everyone for more money (I refused, as this was smelling fishy already to me). The guy was dismissive and unapologetic and handled everything badly, then on his facebook it turned out he had just taken him and his wife on a lovely holiday... he barely replied to kickstarter and it doesn't look like most people will get their 'reward'.

For me £20 is nothing to write off, I hadn't properly looked into the kickstarter and wrote it off as a 'whoops' moment. Some backers had spent £200 odd on a year or mores supply of biltong. Kickstarter do nothing about it, dont have a complaints procedure and dont make any attempt to reply to you if you report a project.

There is also the case of the mini drone recently that went bust with millions of pounds in backing, which Kickstarter have had enough negative press about to hire a Journo to investigate.

The problem is is that it is clear from the outset that you are investing, and that carries risks. If you were literally a money investor in business then you accept and write off the mistakes, no different to trading on the stock market. But when its brought into the mainstream like this you inevitably get many punters who buy in without accepting the risk of failure or outright criminality.

It would be nice for Kickstarter to be seen to report the bad eggs or do something about it, it reminds me of the early days of Gumtree (although not as bad) when it was a criminal free-for-all.


----------



## hotmetal

I had naively assumed there was some sort of regulating or checking on Kickstarter. Otherwise what's to stop anyone kick starting a bogus product and then making off to Brasil with the proceeds? Nothing apparently! All investment carries an element of risk, but Kickstarter seems like just handing over your wallet to some bloke in the pub who reckons he'll come back in a month with a Rolls Royce for you.


----------



## Dylan

hotmetal said:


> I had naively assumed there was some sort of regulating or checking on Kickstarter. Otherwise what's to stop anyone kick starting a bogus product and then making off to Brasil with the proceeds? Nothing apparently! All investment carries an element of risk, but Kickstarter seems like just handing over your wallet to some bloke in the pub who reckons he'll come back in a month with a Rolls Royce for you.


There are a couple of big cases where exactly this happened, it seems when it is clear there was never any intention of fulfilling rewards kickstarter will help with the legal process but they take no responsibility and backers are still very likely to lose their cash.

You do need to send kickstarter a working prototype of a tech project, so there is an element of checking a project is real on their behalf. There is basically nothing to stop someone whose business has failed at the prototype stage using it as a method to scam people however.


----------



## DavecUK

Dylan said:


> There are a couple of big cases where exactly this happened, it seems when it is clear there was never any intention of fulfilling rewards kickstarter will help with the legal process but they take no responsibility and backers are still very likely to lose their cash.


I remember being shouted down on forums when I questioned a few quickstarter projects when they launched...ZPM was one of them!!

I think we all need to be much more careful, theres nothing more that Kickstarter beggars like than fanboy groups of any kind.....easiest to rip off.


----------



## Dylan

DavecUK said:


> I remember being shouted down on forums when I questioned a few quickstarter projects when they launched...ZPM was one of them!!
> 
> I think we all need to be much more careful, theres nothing more that Kickstarter beggars like than fanboy groups of any kind.....easiest to rip off.


Indeed it is, the Kickstarter project I have backed that have succeeded are many, and just the one low value one has failed, but I am pretty careful most of the time and almost always prepared to write off lost investments as a rule. I completely accept most people invest (somewhat naively) in a 'pre-order' type of way, and if everyone was fully aware of quite how many ways a project can fail from inception to market Kickstarter may not see the investment it does. Kickstarter really makes no attempt to make it clear how risky it is however.


----------



## Jens_Muff

I follow you all on the 'don't put your money at risk' before the product is tested proporly. I have personally never backed a kickstarter project and don't intend to.

However it will always be a matter of weighing pros and cons. For me the Bullet is different. Pre ordering we get the product before others, and roasting on a Behmor (several kilos a week) is a pain, and my patience is wearing thin to say the least. We probably get the roaster at a lower cost too.

Of course the money are lost, if they dont deliver, and Dave raises a lot of valid points also around what can go wrong after delivery. I personally skyped with Jonas (CEO of Aillio) for a good hour before I with shaky fingers decided to pre order. We are 14 from our Danish coffee roasting community, who took the plungde together, so maybe we'll sue him together should things go wrong. I am allmost done studying law anyway.. Jokes aside









The two CEO's are Danish like me (and Rasmus), and that probably played a part in my decision. I have skyped several times with him and I'm the one putting the event in Denmark together this tuesday. I consider the risk of no delivery slight to none, but of course delivery is not the only issue. If I hadn't had so much communication with him myself I would not have preordered though. Thats for sure.

I do agree with your take on their 'communication' or should we say lack of. It is a terrible place to save time. Especially when costumers have paid for the pruduct the least you can do is give information. I am also surprised by people's patience but feel very certain, that no critical posts are removed on their facebook page. On the patience topic I can only say for myself, that I the whole time have been extremely looking forward to getting the thing, but when they said July 15 I tried to tell myself that the year 2015 whould be over before they ship. Didn't wish to be right on that prediction though. Stuff like this is always delayed.. I will also say that even if it is delayed another 6 months I won't mind IF they in fact deliver the product they promise.

I asked Jonas about why they have been so far off when it comes to ETA. He said that they depend on a lot of people to deliver the different parts. All they can do is trust the estimates these people give. If they didn't do that all they can say is 'we have no idea when we ship'. But of course looking back they have been too optimistic having no or a too small buffer on the info they have passed on to us. Especially the induction coil has taken a long time to get perfect.


----------



## Jens_Muff

DavecUK said:


> You might also wait to see what in country support you will get as they are hoovering up a bulk of initial sales, how interested will retailers be. Realistically, they probably are not making to many retail friends at the moment.


Just a quick note on this:

I do agree that is is not a problem free road to go down letting people buy the product for a (probably) lower price before retailers are allowed in. However, I do think it is mainly wise if your product is really good and the potential for selling a lot is great. They have sold 250 pre orders worldwide and though it is a niche market I don't think it will be a problem if the product delivers. It will only be good advertisement that 250 costumers are praising your product.

The capital it generates also helps keeping away investors, who want a piece of the pie in return for investing money. That was one of the main reasons they did it of course since production is costly.

I talked to a couple of retailers in Denmark who weren't put off by this method and even one retalier who have ordered 20 units (probably not pre paid though)


----------



## NetDoc

I bought on Dec 8 based upon this email from Jacob with an estimated delivery date:

"We are extremely busy manufacturing the Bullets. The first batch should leave the assembly this month, and from there on we will start mass production. My guess is you could expect yours in Feb, if you order now."


----------



## Coffeejon

NetDoc said:


> I bought on Dec 8 based upon this email from Jacob with an estimated delivery date:
> 
> "We are extremely busy manufacturing the Bullets. The first batch should leave the assembly this month, and from there on we will start mass production. My guess is you could expect yours in Feb, if you order now."


Thanks for this, they need to make this type of statement public as it will ease our frustration on lack of communication.


----------



## JacobAillio

Please see my introduction here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28545-Jacob-from-Aillio&p=380106#post380106

I will try to answer some of the misunderstandings or questions below:

1) Bluetooth

All pre-order models will have bluetooth hardware embedded. An app will be available later Q1.

2) Delivery date

Scheduled January. The news about the delivery date is published in our newsletter.

As some of you know we have had some setbacks during the last 6 month with both suppliers and a few technical issues. On the technical side we have used extensive research into insulating the electronics so the temperature would be kept sufficiently low. There is a rule of thumb saying that if you lower the temperature 10deg you get x2 lifetime of components. In order to keep the electronic cooling fans quiet and the electronics cool, we have added an extra fan to extract more heat and thus lower temperatures = longer component life. This meant redesigning a lot of parts but the result is that we have lower fan noise, lower PCB temperatures and longer life.

3) Facebook

Someone has suggested that we deleted negative comments on FB. This is absolutely not true! Period.

We are sorry and frustrated by the shift in delivery dates, but promise you we are doing everything possible and working around the clock to get your pre-orders shipped.

/Jacob


----------



## whattodo

JacobAillio said:


> Please see my introduction here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28545-Jacob-from-Aillio&p=380106#post380106
> 
> I will try to answer some of the misunderstandings or questions below:
> 
> 1) Bluetooth
> 
> All pre-order models will have bluetooth hardware embedded. An app will be available later Q1.
> 
> 2) Delivery date
> 
> Scheduled January. The news about the delivery date is published in our newsletter.
> 
> As some of you know we have had some setbacks during the last 6 month with both suppliers and a few technical issues. On the technical side we have used extensive research into insulating the electronics so the temperature would be kept sufficiently low. There is a rule of thumb saying that if you lower the temperature 10deg you get x2 lifetime of components. In order to keep the electronic cooling fans quiet and the electronics cool, we have added an extra fan to extract more heat and thus lower temperatures = longer component life. This meant redesigning a lot of parts but the result is that we have lower fan noise, lower PCB temperatures and longer life.
> 
> 3) Facebook
> 
> Someone has suggested that we deleted negative comments on FB. This is absolutely not true! Period.
> 
> We are sorry and frustrated by the shift in delivery dates, but promise you we are doing everything possible and working around the clock to get your pre-orders shipped.
> 
> /Jacob


----------



## DavecUK

JacobAillio said:


> I will try to answer some of the misunderstandings or questions below:
> 
> 2) Delivery date
> 
> Scheduled January. The news about the delivery date is published in our newsletter.
> 
> 3) Facebook
> 
> Someone has suggested that we deleted negative comments on FB. This is absolutely not true! Period.
> 
> /Jacob


2. No it was stated as the 15 December 2015 in your newsletter when I read the most recent version on 19th December.

3. I never suggested negative comments were being deleted, what I said was:



> I have been quietly surprised at the patience of their customers and potential customers on faceboook, there has not really been any posts on their page about the delivery timescales for some time now. The last post I see where someone asks about delivery timescales is around 1 month ago?


 and


> My additional point is that when a large number of people pre-order  something, facebook would normally have lots of comments saying where is it....but nothing like that for a month. My guess would be that these comments are being removed!


*I was surprised there were no comments asking about delivery timescales when I checked facebook on the 19 December before posting (I did check). I check today and I see that there are comments from the 18th asking about delivery*



*
*Jonas, look upon this as the gift, the gifts of feedback about just how poor your communication to your customers is and the problems it causes. A lot of people have prepaid on faith, the least you can do is keep them properly informed. I think you probably have a good product, but a very poor communications policy.


----------



## Dylan

So you suggested delivery comments were being removed, not negative comments? Kinda one and the same are they not?


----------



## DavecUK

Dylan said:


> So you suggested delivery comments were being removed, not negative comments? Kinda one and the same are they not?


No they are not, delivery is something I would have expected people to be asking about....I couldn't understand why no one was when I checked. Although now there do appear to be comments asking about it. it's not a negative comment to ask about delivery timescales after having paid for something. it's quite a reasonable thing to do and the fact that they would even see that as a negative comment confuses me?

P.S. In fact there are lots of negative type comments on the facebook page and always have been regarding other issues such as vent pipes etc., so I was in no way suggesting they removed negative comments.


----------



## Coffeejon

JacobAillio said:


> Please see my introduction here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28545-Jacob-from-Aillio&p=380106#post380106
> 
> I will try to answer some of the misunderstandings or questions below:
> 
> 1) Bluetooth
> 
> All pre-order models will have bluetooth hardware embedded. An app will be available later Q1.
> 
> 2) Delivery date
> 
> Scheduled January. The news about the delivery date is published in our newsletter.
> 
> As some of you know we have had some setbacks during the last 6 month with both suppliers and a few technical issues. On the technical side we have used extensive research into insulating the electronics so the temperature would be kept sufficiently low. There is a rule of thumb saying that if you lower the temperature 10deg you get x2 lifetime of components. In order to keep the electronic cooling fans quiet and the electronics cool, we have added an extra fan to extract more heat and thus lower temperatures = longer component life. This meant redesigning a lot of parts but the result is that we have lower fan noise, lower PCB temperatures and longer life.
> 
> 3) Facebook
> 
> Someone has suggested that we deleted negative comments on FB. This is absolutely not true! Period.
> 
> We are sorry and frustrated by the shift in delivery dates, but promise you we are doing everything possible and working around the clock to get your pre-orders shipped.
> 
> /Jacob


Thanks Jacob!

This is all we needed, just an update of where you are and why. Please keep them coming and we look forward to the roasters next year!

I wish you a good & relaxing Christmas!

/Jon


----------



## RasmusDJ

I have had the pleasure of seeing the roaster twice over Christmas, and on behalf of that, I have made a little review. We have roasted around 8 batches yesterday, and it seems pretty solid. So I have made a short review on it, and there will follow more pictures. You can eventually find a link for the review on Aillios facebook page.


----------



## whattodo

Aillio announced that pre-order will end on Jan 10th.

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d3e63b3e46104e3c90a9cdfaa&id=8e94201e89


----------



## Coffeejon

RasmusDJ said:


> I have had the pleasure of seeing the roaster twice over Christmas, and on behalf of that, I have made a little review. We have roasted around 8 batches yesterday, and it seems pretty solid. So I have made a short review on it, and there will follow more pictures. You can eventually find a link for the review on Aillios facebook page.


Great, Thx Rasmus. Also thx for getting the guys to update everyone on expected delivery.

Hope the machine is good!


----------



## RasmusDJ

Its really promising, Jens my friend who has been using it for the last couple of days, has just been roasting 6 kg yesterday as well. But Aillio is picking it up today, as they are returning to Taipei. So until we receive our roasters, we can just wait


----------



## Coffeejon

RasmusDJ said:


> Its really promising, Jens my friend who has been using it for the last couple of days, has just been roasting 6 kg yesterday as well. But Aillio is picking it up today, as they are returning to Taipei. So until we receive our roasters, we can just wait


Can you actually roast a full 1KG ok with it? Was there allot of smoke? Thx


----------



## RasmusDJ

You can easily roast a kg with it, i will be posting some pictures of it soon, how even the roast is.

1kg does create a lot of smoke, so you will need a good range hood to keep up with it, also when cooling the beans it create some smoke.


----------



## froggystyle

How long does smoke continue when cooling?


----------



## RasmusDJ

A couple of minutes, until they are under a certent temperature, where they have stopped the roast. Maybe a minute or something, when roasting 1kg.


----------



## DavecUK

RasmusDJ said:


> A couple of minutes, until they are under a certent temperature, where they have stopped the roast. Maybe a minute or something, when roasting 1kg.


Does the cooling tray have a mesh to stop the chaff coming out of it's own rear vent?


----------



## RasmusDJ

There is a small filter that stops the chaffs from getting all over your kitchen.


----------



## Jens_Muff

Coffeejon said:


> Can you actually roast a full 1KG ok with it? Was there allot of smoke? Thx


Yes.. And a bit more actually. Did a 1,2 kg roast which turned out fine. However cooling times on this amount are too slow right now partially because the amount of air holes in the cooling tray is too small. This will be better on the units being shipped to costumers. New cooling trays with twice as many holes arrived just the day after they left Thaiwan. He showed me pictures of the new one. Looking good. Difficult to say if the cooling times drop as much as I'd like though.

I was very (!) surprised to see the low amount of smoke 1 kg roast created in the kitchen. I did 6 x one kg last night, and it was not bad at all.. Well it all depends on where you are coming from, but I had less smoke last night than I usally have when I use my behmor. I open the behmor door while cooling, which makes a fair bit of smoke.

Yes. Of course The Bullet creates a lot of smoke.. One kg roasting does. But almost all the smoke comes out the hole on top of the back and fires directly upwards into the hood. Even my sub standard hood handled the job very nicely. I will be roasting in my kitchen with my normal hood, when I get my Bullet. At least when it's not comfortable roasting outside.

I did a one kg roast in my parents' open kitchen inviroment (with a standard/decent hood) and the five people (my family who are not used to coffee roasting) sitting in the same room chatting said "of course we can smell it, but it's not so bad that we are moving ". Again.. Other people may have different opinions. Depends on what you're use to.

I can tell you though, that if you don't have a hood, you do not want to roast inside unless you have an alternative way of getting rid of the smoke.


----------



## Jens_Muff

I have added a few fotos from my days with the roaster incl. from the our small event. As you can see, it fits under even the lowest normal kitchen hoods (48-49 cm)

http://amaliemuff.pixieset.com/bulletr1/


----------



## Coffeejon

Thanks Jens, really helpful. I currently vent my roasters through a hole in the wall using their own fans to blow out the smoke. The Bullet will do the same, the only problem will be when I put the roasted beans into the tray & the smoke coming off those 1kg of beans. If this is too much I will have to somehow install a kitchen hood or put some kind of extraction fan in the hole in the wall so it can pull out the smoke from the bullet and then pull out the cooling beans smoke. Will have to see for my self how much smoke comes off. If you ever get a chance to video the smoke coming off the cooling beans would be great. Thx!


----------



## Jens_Muff

Coffeejon said:


> Thanks Jens, really helpful. I currently vent my roasters through a hole in the wall using their own fans to blow out the smoke. The Bullet will do the same, the only problem will be when I put the roasted beans into the tray & the smoke coming off those 1kg of beans. If this is too much I will have to somehow install a kitchen hood or put some kind of extraction fan in the hole in the wall so it can pull out the smoke from the bullet and then pull out the cooling beans smoke. Will have to see for my self how much smoke comes off. If you ever get a chance to video the smoke coming off the cooling beans would be great. Thx!


I'm pretty sure you don't want all the smoke the beans produce post drop to stay in the room you roast in. In my setup the fan in the cooling tray sucked everything back under the hood which made it acceptable to me.

One time I forgot that I had detatched the cooling unit, and all hell broke loose for 30 sec since the fan didn't activate.


----------



## Coffeejon

another thought, does the bullet have a cooling cycle so you could skip the tray and just cool the bean until they are below roasting temp and then just tip then out?


----------



## Jens_Muff

Coffeejon said:


> another thought, does the bullet have a cooling cycle so you could skip the tray and just cool the bean until they are below roasting temp and then just tip then out?


Well kind of.. BUT it is most definitely terrible for cooling beans. Way too slow. The drum is 2,8 kg steel and takes a fair bit of time to get below roasting temp. The beans would be roasted to death with this method. Even with the beans dropped I don't remember it dropping much more than 20 C a minute.

However, we talked about the possibility of making the cooling tray working with a normal AC-adapter so you can detach it completely from the roaster and take it elsewhere powered by a household socket. Not sure this will be standard or included in the pre order price IF it is implemented. The guys actually left the cooling tray at my place, because they didn't have room in their bag for it. They said, it's really easy to connect an old laptop-charger and use it without the bullet. So for the modding people it should be a piece of cake. I'm not very comfortable cutting and connecting wires myself though.


----------



## DavecUK

Jens_Muff said:


> I have added a few fotos from my days with the roaster incl. from the our small event. As you can see, it fits under even the lowest normal kitchen hoods (48-49 cm)
> 
> http://amaliemuff.pixieset.com/bulletr1/


I read the review, very interesting. one question is all the very very fast roast times....why the race to 1st crack and EOR, my own experience over 10 years of roasting has been that roast times as fast as the ones you were doing, definitely don't deliver the best results for most (any) beans. Either the roasts were very very very light (read not properly roasted), or, going at a hell of a pace through 1st crack and to the end of roast. I proved to one of my roast sharers that fast is not always good with an Ethiopian Harrar Longberry both roasted to exactly the same colour, 1 batch roasted in11m 30s and the other in about 14:50s...batch 1 all the bluberry notes pretty much killed, coffee didn't taste great and oils to the surface within 3 weeks. Batch 2 tasted great, loads of blueberry and no oils on the surface after 3 weeks.

Sure some of the commercial boys will roast that fast, but for many of them time is money....The current drum roaster I am testing will bring beans to 2nd crack in just under 10m, but just because it will doesn't mean I feel the need to roast like that.

*I think if you get another chance you should try roasting a lot slower and then try the coffee properly a week later.*

I am pretty sure at some point I will get one to test/review once retailers are able to order one. Then at least I can ensure the some of the pertinent issues are covered. My only problem is the need to borrow a laptop to test the computer interface part.


----------



## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> *I think if you get another chance you should try roasting a lot slower and then try the coffee properly a week later.*
> 
> I am pretty sure at some point I will get one to test/review once retailers are able to order one. Then at least I can ensure the some of the pertinent issues are covered. My only problem is the need to borrow a laptop to test the computer interface part.


I'm with Dave on this, as been using his suggested roasting techniques from my Bella Barista purchases. Does a much more even roast and for me doing lighter roasts you can catch the roast right after first crack without worrying about the bean not being evenly roasted. (Also I find peak taste com 4-6 days later)

Also I've got a Mac, so the sooner they develop that the version the better. Also can you ask them to allow for profiles to be swapped between systems, i.e. mac, pc, ios, Android as would like to use my ipad eventually.


----------



## Jens_Muff

DavecUK said:


> I read the review, very interesting. one question is all the very very fast roast times....why the race to 1st crack and EOR, my own experience over 10 years of roasting has been that roast times as fast as the ones you were doing, definitely don't deliver the best results for most (any) beans. Either the roasts were very very very light (read not properly roasted), or, going at a hell of a pace through 1st crack and to the end of roast. I proved to one of my roast sharers that fast is not always good with an Ethiopian Harrar Longberry both roasted to exactly the same colour, 1 batch roasted in11m 30s and the other in about 14:50s...batch 1 all the bluberry notes pretty much killed, coffee didn't taste great and oils to the surface within 3 weeks. Batch 2 tasted great, loads of blueberry and no oils on the surface after 3 weeks.
> 
> Sure some of the commercial boys will roast that fast, but for many of them time is money....The current drum roaster I am testing will bring beans to 2nd crack in just under 10m, but just because it will doesn't mean I feel the need to roast like that.
> 
> *I think if you get another chance you should try roasting a lot slower and then try the coffee properly a week later.*
> 
> I am pretty sure at some point I will get one to test/review once retailers are able to order one. Then at least I can ensure the some of the pertinent issues are covered. My only problem is the need to borrow a laptop to test the computer interface part.


I did some longer roasts also. Some up to 14 min. Most with 1c after 10 min.

I am not going to argue whether shorter or longer is better. I am not myself experienced enough to take a clear standpoint. Coming from a Behmor without much choise. But I attended a roasting course some months ago with Michael De Renouard a certified SCAE trainer and Loring ambassador and many years of roasting exp. in specialty coffee. He preferebly roast with what you would consider very short roasting times within 10 min. Of course every bean is different, but it is what he mainly does.

I just think it's great, that you can have the roaster do whatever you want it to do. Whether you prefer short and quick or long and dark - or anything in between. And I am looking forward to experimenting finding out what I think tastes best









Would be great if you got to test it.


----------



## NetDoc

Jens_Muff said:


> I did some longer roasts also. Some up to 14 min. Most with 1c after 10 min. ...I just think it's great, that you can have the roaster do whatever you want it to do. Whether you prefer short and quick or long and dark - or anything in between. And I am looking forward to experimenting finding out what I think tastes best Would be great if you got to test it.


The concern, of course, is that the roaster may be optimized to roast 1 kg of beans rapidly, and may be more challenging for smaller, slower roasts. Your roasts and others that have been shared seem to be mostly near the 1 kg. maximum.. Many of us would like to roast smaller batches such as 400 or 500 gm and some may want to do this slowly. Will this mean you have to work within the lower power settings (P4, P3, etc ) which would provide fewer power options and less control? The only way to know this is to do smaller batch roasts with longer times.

Also, I would like to know how the roasts taste and smell in the cup? How do they compare with the same coffee roasted with other devices? I haven't seen anyone comment on this, which after all is our goal.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.


----------



## DavecUK

NetDoc said:


> The concern, of course, is that the roaster may be optimized to roast 1 kg of beans rapidly, and may be more challenging for smaller, slower roasts. Your roasts and others that have been shared seem to be mostly near the 1 kg. maximum.. Many of us would like to roast smaller batches such as 400 or 500 gm and some may want to do this slowly. Will this mean you have to work within the lower power settings (P4, P3, etc ) which would provide fewer power options and less control? The only way to know this is to do smaller batch roasts with longer times.
> 
> Also, I would like to know how the roasts taste and smell in the cup? How do they compare with the same coffee roasted with other devices? I haven't seen anyone comment on this, which after all is our goal.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experiences.


You will when I get my hands on one....I personally don't think controllability for smaller batches will be a problem as long as the response of the induction heating system is linear (which it should be). The fast 1kg roasts I believe are their way of proving a point, that it had ample power, because at one point people on Coffeegeek were stating 1500W would roast a Kg. At the time I thought people were being stupid, because I had helped Toper with the early Cafemino design and found 1600W conventional heating elements had no trouble roasting a kg. It's about how the heat is generated, where the heating is and how insulated things are. So I think this concern dogged the designers so much so that they push out all these super fast roast times, admittedly probably lightish roasts, but still very fast.

Oddly enough sometimes all this computer cleverness can get in the way for home roasters, for some they want to go out, simply press a few buttons and "auto roast"...which is fine, they won't get the best coffee, but does this support that easy mode of use....my suspicion is it will do this very well.

I will be able to compare the same coffee roasted on 5 different roasters, and not just the coffee but the overall process. One thing should be remembered. This is a home roaster, not a commercial roaster, so my expectations of back to back roasting and durability will not be the same as with the 2 commercial 1kg roasters I have, both of which are made to roast 4kg+ per hour, hour after hour. I'm not saying the Bullet can't do this, perhaps it can, but it's not sold as a commercial roaster and won't be warranted as such. I will also be able to compare with a Quest M3 and a power controlled Gene CBR101 (this last one from memory only).

Bella Barista, who have asked me to look at it when they finally get one, will worry about the commercials e.g. is it worth them selling. The things I will be looking at when I test/review is:


If Aillio goes under, who owns the code for the software (roaster is heavily software dependent) and rights to make the spares. The rights for all this should go into escrow for free access by any/all retailers to allow them to continue to have parts manufactured and code flashed to those items as required. Otherwise it could become a maintenance/support nightmare.

Spares availability and cost (hence how much for you to buy), what warranty support will retailers get...?

Is there a service manual for the roaster because this is not a commercial item, this is a retail item. Retailers will need to service/repair it as will consumers. With the roasters I have been involved in so far, there has been either a comprehensive service guide, or the roaster is so simple, local guides can be written

Is it really OK to use this roaster indoors (in the house, specifically Kitchen). I will take a view on that and advise accordingly. Currently my view is, unless I see something very special about the roaster, or a Video test of what happens when the beans inside catch fire, I would recommend this roaster is only used in a suitable workshop and not in the Kitchen or any part of the main residence. Aillio did state that they would test what happens in a roaster fire, so hopefully this Video will be available soon.

Aillio have stated a Tryer kit will be available 3 months after launch....I will examine the roaster to see if this is actually feasible, specifically the clearance from front plate to fins and supports at the front of the drum. Does it really need a tryer.

Roast lots of coffee, taste it, see how the roaster works, how flexible it is and If I can borrow a laptop to test the software....as I don't think android is available. Check evenness of roast and chaff clearance from beans, effectiveness of cooling. Specifically test smaller loads, as many home users will not want to do 1kg, probably 500g is a sweet spot for them.

Give it an internal exam, if that looks easy enough to do.

I don't have a 3d printer, so how will I deal with the smoke, because no way will I roast in our kitchen and the cooker hood wouldn't handle it, can I make some sort of vent adaptor. I think it's very poor that the roaster doesn't have a standard size 125mm vent supplied to be honest.

Look for areas that might need maintenance, or any engineering/other concerns..


BB can then decide if they want to stock it....that won't be my decision. I just make the report.


----------



## Jens_Muff

Quick answer:

I did 2 batches of 250 g. First one cracked After 7:50. Second one I lowered charge temp a bit and the power and increased air flow a bit and that cracked After 9:35. Could have dragged it even more. 400-500 grams are not hard to control. Have not got the data here. Don't remember if I actually did a 13-15 min roast with that batch size.

Also did a 150 batch that cracked at between 7-8 min mark.

taste of the coffee is great so far.







Will follow up.


----------



## Jens_Muff

I am very much looking forward to hearing Dave's impression


----------



## NetDoc

Jens_Muff said:


> Quick answer:
> 
> I did 2 batches of 250 g. First one cracked After 7:50. Second one I lowered charge temp a bit and the power and increased air flow a bit and that cracked After 9:35. Could have dragged it even more. 400-500 grams are not hard to control. Have not got the data here. Don't remember if I actually did a 13-15 min roast with that batch size.
> 
> Also did a 150 batch that cracked at between 7-8 min mark.
> 
> taste of the coffee is great so far.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will follow up.


great info. Thanks.


----------



## Coffeejon

Hi Jens

Wonder if you could mention to the boys about another update, i.e. how production is going, expected shipping etc? Thx allot if you can!


----------



## NickR

I have to say the roaster looks really great, but I still don't see how you can dump a 1Kg of hot beans in a domestic kitchen and not have a smoke problem - I use to have a Hottop and even with its pathetic 200 grams the smoke WAS a problem, even with a good cooker hood. At the very least smoke detectors will be activated, but I suspect that long term there would be darkening of the paint, and any soft furnishings in the vicinity would take up the smell. I would also suspect that breathing that amount of smoke on a regular basis could lead to serious health problems.

If this is supposed to be a domestic roaster - cooling, chaff removal and smoke removal should have been part of the design brief. It seems a pity that these criterion seem to have been ignore because otherwise it looks superb.


----------



## Jens_Muff

NickR said:


> I have to say the roaster looks really great, but I still don't see how you can dump a 1Kg of hot beans in a domestic kitchen and not have a smoke problem - I use to have a Hottop and even with its pathetic 200 grams the smoke WAS a problem, even with a good cooker hood. At the very least smoke detectors will be activated, but I suspect that long term there would be darkening of the paint, and any soft furnishings in the vicinity would take up the smell. I would also suspect that breathing that amount of smoke on a regular basis could lead to serious health problems.
> 
> If this is supposed to be a domestic roaster - cooling, chaff removal and smoke removal should have been part of the design brief. It seems a pity that these criterion seem to have been ignore because otherwise it looks superb.


it does have a pretty effective chaff collector in the back.

If the smoke is a problem of course depends on how sensitive you are. I am use to a lot of smoke from a Behmor with an open door while cooling, and the Bullet gave less smoke in the kitchen. Still enough to be a problem for some - sure. But not for me. Will it set off a smoke alarm? It might.. But so will a darkly toasted piece of bread. As I said, the amount of smoke is very hard to tell people about since it it hard to measure. Video doesn't really give any smell away. You really have to see it for yourself to see how 'bad' it is. Also people messing with 2c will have a lot more smoke to deal with. I never really go into second crack.

I wouldn't think home roasting once every two or there weeks cause you any harm. Commercial roasting every day might.. but what do I know..

To the guy asking: Talked to Jonas from Aillio this morning. They are starting assembling tomorrow. They still think they will ship the first roasters this month. They hope to finish 10 roasters a day once they get things rolling. Shipping itself will of course take time also.

Hoping to get mine Q1. Don't think chances are too slim, but time will tell.


----------



## DavecUK

I am curious about when retailers will get a Roaster. I would have thought their named retailers on the Aillio website would be getting one to test first to see if they want to stock it? I really can't see how they are making any friends in the retail community at the moment. So far I have heard nothing on when I will get one to test and I know BB want to get one ASAP and send it to me for testing.

The bullet was meant to start shipping on Jan 15th was it not?


----------



## Jens_Muff

DavecUK said:


> I am curious about when retailers will get a Roaster. I would have thought their named retailers on the Aillio website would be getting one to test first to see if they want to stock it? I really can't see how they are making any friends in the retail community at the moment. So far I have heard nothing on when I will get one to test and I know BB want to get one ASAP and send it to me for testing.
> 
> The bullet was meant to start shipping on Jan 15th was it not?


I only recall late january being mentioned, but could be wrong. Mid is off the table now anyway.

I am not really sure I agree on the retailer argument. It all really depends on how good the produkt is, how the costumors react on getting it and the price.

If feedback is good and Aillio can offer a decent retail price, I don't think they will be in trouble. Quite the opposite, as there will already be a blooming community sharing roasts and experience making others want to get it. Retailers will want in on that. But it all comes down to quality and price of course. Quality also meaning all the points Dave mentioned earlier.


----------



## Coffeejon

Jens_Muff said:


> it does have a pretty effective chaff collector in the back.
> 
> To the guy asking: Talked to Jonas from Aillio this morning. They are starting assembling tomorrow. They still think they will ship the first roasters this month. They hope to finish 10 roasters a day once they get things rolling. Shipping itself will of course take time also.
> 
> Hoping to get mine Q1. Don't think chances are too slim, but time will tell.


Thx Jens. The Aillio guys really should be doing this, (not you) it's a bit Lazy from their side. I asked for a short weekly update, but doesn't seem to be happening. It should be fun as want to see them being assembled shipped etc, but is always a bit frustrating. o well, appreciate your help!


----------



## 4085

I am a cynic.....that said, I do not get caught out often......


----------



## Jens_Muff

Coffeejon said:


> Thx Jens. The Aillio guys really should be doing this, (not you) it's a bit Lazy from their side. I asked for a short weekly update, but doesn't seem to be happening. It should be fun as want to see them being assembled shipped etc, but is always a bit frustrating. o well, appreciate your help!


Yeah.. I agree. Updates don't take many seconds nowadays. Short social media updates even just a quick photo on instagram.

However, he told me they will post photos from the production before long. Probably a few days. Hope they do











dfk41 said:


> I am a cynic.....that said, I do not get caught out often......


What do you mean by that?


----------



## 4085

When surfing, a web page gets 8 seconds to load. if it fails, it is history. Everyone is life gets one chance, very few get two. You have a company who are trying to relieve you of large sums of money. They do not speak to the majority, break timescales but that is because they know they can get away with it


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## froggystyle

A lot of business's work like this, not just from the far east, some uk companies i deal with are terrible, its like they dont care...


----------



## Jens_Muff

dfk41 said:


> When surfing, a web page gets 8 seconds to load. if it fails, it is history. Everyone is life gets one chance, very few get two. You have a company who are trying to relieve you of large sums of money. They do not speak to the majority, break timescales but that is because they know they can get away with it


Well if we were talking about a mobile phone company or another fast moving industry I agree the race would be over long ago. But how often is a new home coffee roaster released? This one is potentially filling a void in the market not covered by others. In that time scale an 8 month delay is not necessarily a business killer if they aren't overtaken by anyone. People are wainting (somewhat) paitiently because there are no competitors making anything similar.

Their tech is patented and they might have a really strong product delays or not. To write it off because they have been delayed and communication pre release has been lacking is ignorant in my opinion. Of course it is plenty of reason not to pre order oneself though.


----------



## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> A lot of business's work like this, not just from the far east, some uk companies i deal with are terrible, its like they dont care...


Well I think a lot of my comments about retailer involvement and how that protects the consumer are not well understood. It seems like they have what people feel is a great product, have hoovered up most of the initial bloom of sales that comes with any new product. Now the price goes up to a price they set, for retailers to make a margin they have decided on, not the retailer. I suspect sales from now on will be much slower, as the price is a lot higher for the remaining market, I think it works out to just over £2100 in the UK inc VAT at Aillios recommended RRP.

The UK retailer is as much in the dark as we all are...how do they prepare, when can they test something, how much will spares cost, what spares are likely to be required, when will they be available, where is the service manual, what about fire safety, what if Aillio ceases trading, who owns software rights, can the product continue to be supported. Currently this whole marketing campaign is based on a single prototype roaster(or is there more than 1) and they are just starting to build the customers roasters. The real details from them have not really been forthcoming, almost everything has been very carefully done through facebook or their website.

Just because home roasters people want something supremely cheap, fantastic and meeting their every need....with absolutely no problems, they can behave as they do, although I don't think it's the right way. If I read facebook and Tim McDonough comment about why only 3 roasts per day, Aillios reply makes it look like it might even be suitable for commercial use, oh no it's not...or is it? you can read facebook for their full reply, as out of context I extract this bit, but people do read in to things, what they want see....not always what is said.



> You can of course roast as much as you like, nothing is going to overheat or fail if you roast continuously, and there are many safety features in place to help monitor the roaster.


I have been very surprised at what the consumer will put up with if something is perceived as enough of a bargain.

In fact someone enquired about buying the Amazon commercial roaster I am looking at for for BB, direct from China, with all the modifications I have asked for. The funniest thing was the nightmare they would have importing it and trying to collect it. If they have a problem, or it doesn't work, damaged in transit, what do they do then. The real laugh is it probably would cost them the same or more as buying from Bella Barista. However, they thought they could save some big money, because of the price quoted on Alibaba, which is not the right price. Plus import duty VAT custom clearance charges, shipping, port collection/handling fees and simply the logistics of collecting a very large box. Even if, in the unlikely event they did save even £200....Would it be worth all the hassle and to have something with no warranty and the reseller 1000s of miles away. All because they thought they could save a few bob.


----------



## NetDoc

Jens_Muff said:


> To the guy asking: Talked to Jonas from Aillio this morning. They are starting assembling tomorrow. They still think they will ship the first roasters this month. They hope to finish 10 roasters a day once they get things rolling. Shipping itself will of course take time also.
> 
> Hoping to get mine Q1. Don't think chances are too slim, but time will tell.


What?? Their newsletter on Dec 29 said:

"The first Bullets are being assembled as I am writing this. We will be working on speeding up the production in the first weeks of January. "

If what you say is true, their newsletter was inaccurate, at best. You seem to know them well and are very supportive of their approach and delays. You need to tell them to communicate directly with their paid customers regularly - like twice a week. There is a credibility issue here that is building.


----------



## Dylan

I know this is rooted in their lack of communication RootDoc but who knows what is happening behind closed doors. Maybe they were assembling, there was a problem and so they have only just got running again. Maybe they were doing a run of 5, testing and then starting up production fully.

In every project I have backed and in every kickstarter I have heard about there are delays and often manufacturers/owners work all day and just don't have the patience and time to sit down and update people.

As far as I can see there are no doomsday predictions, things are coming along but at a delayed pace. You have to give things in production the benefit of the doubt when it's obvious that its a real product that's on its way.


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## Jens_Muff

NetDoc said:


> What?? Their newsletter on Dec 29 said:
> 
> "The first Bullets are being assembled as I am writing this. We will be working on speeding up the production in the first weeks of January. "
> 
> If what you say is true, their newsletter was inaccurate, at best. You seem to know them well and are very supportive of their approach and delays. You need to tell them to communicate directly with their paid customers regularly - like twice a week. There is a credibility issue here that is building.


I'm telling you what he told me nothing more. He told me that since they returned to Thaiwan they have been preparing the modules so they are ready for being put together with de other modules. Maybe this is what he meant.

I suggest you read all of my posts, and they tell you excactly what connection I have with the company. I was in charge of a contract where 13 of the members of the Danish Home Roasters community and I pre-ordered together. He gives me a lot of info, and he is glad that I pass it on to people who are curious. I don't care whether you find my info credible. I really don't. He and his business partner are Danish as well as I, so with them coming home for Christmas we put together an event for our community. He kindly let me borrow the machine, which was almost the production model the following week. Who wouldn't gladly accept this? It was great fun! Before my preorder I didn't know them. I don't have any financial connection to them other than my pre order money committed as many others. I pass the info I have on because I myself would be curious as **** having preordered, and communication has been lacking.

I am not supportive of their delays. What a stupid thing to say.. Support and anticipation are two very different things. I would love the product to have been delivered in July as they said it would. That said I have never experienced projects like this being finished on time, so I have tried telling myself, that deadlines will be broken. This 'we will ship end of Jan.' might also be. Video games are delayed months and months even with big dev. teams behind them. This is an inexperienced company with two guys putting together a complicated product. You expect the first deadline to be kept? Even if they themselves do everything 'right', they are relying on a lot of other people to deliver parts without flaws just like they ordered. That just doesn't happen 100% of the time. Nobody want to send out a flawed product.

And lastly I don't 'need to tell them' anything. I do as I please.



Dylan said:


> I know this is rooted in their lack of communication RootDoc but who knows what is happening begging closed doors. Maybe they were assembling, there was a problem and so they have only just got running again. Maybe they were doing a run of 5, testing and then starting up production fully.
> 
> In every project I have backed and in every kickstarter I have heard about there are delays and often manufacturers/owners work all day and just don't have the patience and time to sit down and update people.
> 
> As far as I can see there are no doomsday predictions, things are coming along but at a delayed pace. You have to give things in production the benefit of the doubt when it's obvious that its a real product that's on its way.


This.


----------



## NetDoc

Apologies, Jens. My concerns are with their communications and not with you. I didn't intend to suggest that your credibility was in question, but I understand you might have read the words that way. Because you seem to be a source of a lot of information about the company, and had the opportunity to actually have the roaster in your home for a few days, I was hoping you might be a good channel to communicating things back to them. I probably could have used other language.

My concern is that they are not exactly a Kickstarter company. They came on the scene with a prototype and a date for release in July. Expectations for a Kickstarter company are that you are funding the company, and that they might not even deliver a product. When there is a pre/order, you expect a funded company, and the pre-orders create a list. Funding drives the company, and pre-orders are evidence to the investors that there is demand. You don't actually charge their credit cards until you ship. However, they chose a more unusual route to find their company with pre-order proceeds. In this unusual circumstance, there is a much higher requirement for delivery. You can't just fail like a Kickstarter. And, there is an expectation of meeting a timeline with some reasonable delays. Anything more should be communicated directly.

What has happened here is that there was a July date that was missed and then very sparse communication as to why or setting another date. Finally, there was an explanation about the coils and a new date of 15 units shipped by the end of December. Then, without an explanation, units would be shipped in early January. Now we are told some will be completed by end of January.

The company has customers who paid early last year for something they expected to receive mid-year. Six months later, when there are even further delays, these customers should get a really open and frequent communication about how things are going, etc. This takes almost no time and any entrepreneur can do it even after long days of firefighting. There is always downtime during a week.

You are very cheerful and patient which is great. You seem to be very understanding of their delays as "to be expected" with a startup, which is what I meant when I used the wrong word, supportive. By saying that "you need to tell them" I really intended to say that it would be great if you told them; if everyone told them just to be a little better at sharing their progress and plans. Their success will come from their customers and their happiness - not from the features of their product. Many a great product has been sunk by customer relations.

Again, please accept my apology. I hope you understand where I was coming from.


----------



## Jens_Muff

NetDoc said:


> Apologies, Jens. My concerns are with their communications and not with you. I didn't intend to suggest that your credibility was in question, but I understand you might have read the words that way. Because you seem to be a source of a lot of information about the company, and had the opportunity to actually have the roaster in your home for a few days, I was hoping you might be a good channel to communicating things back to them. I probably could have used other language.
> 
> My concern is that they are not exactly a Kickstarter company. They came on the scene with a prototype and a date for release in July. Expectations for a Kickstarter company are that you are funding the company, and that they might not even deliver a product. When there is a pre/order, you expect a funded company, and the pre-orders create a list. Funding drives the company, and pre-orders are evidence to the investors that there is demand. You don't actually charge their credit cards until you ship. However, they chose a more unusual route to find their company with pre-order proceeds. In this unusual circumstance, there is a much higher requirement for delivery. You can't just fail like a Kickstarter. And, there is an expectation of meeting a timeline with some reasonable delays. Anything more should be communicated directly.
> 
> What has happened here is that there was a July date that was missed and then very sparse communication as to why or setting another date. Finally, there was an explanation about the coils and a new date of 15 units shipped by the end of December. Then, without an explanation, units would be shipped in early January. Now we are told some will be completed by end of January.
> 
> The company has customers who paid early last year for something they expected to receive mid-year. Six months later, when there are even further delays, these customers should get a really open and frequent communication about how things are going, etc. This takes almost no time and any entrepreneur can do it even after long days of firefighting. There is always downtime during a week.
> 
> You are very cheerful and patient which is great. You seem to be very understanding of their delays as "to be expected" with a startup, which is what I meant when I used the wrong word, supportive. By saying that "you need to tell them" I really intended to say that it would be great if you told them; if everyone told them just to be a little better at sharing their progress and plans. Their success will come from their customers and their happiness - not from the features of their product. Many a great product has been sunk by customer relations.
> 
> Again, please accept my apology. I hope you understand where I was coming from.


Apology accepted. I understand and agree with most of your statements. I just interpreted your post earlier today mainly as a personal attack and got a bit pissed tbh









I am probably much more patient than others, because I don't feel like I'm being kept in the dark. This is also one of the reasons I try to pass on the good vibes and info I do have on to others. I have requested a LOT of info and stuff as videos and such to be posted, and I will keep doing so. Some of the stuff they have posted are only because of requests from me and the other guys in our community. But even though we have paid a fair amount of money we can't demand anything other than the deal being kept.

I really think things are moving towards shipment. Will it be a week or a month or two in worst case? I don't know, and since I have waited most of a year already since ordering I can wait a bit more as long as they do deliver.

I'm not too much into how KS works. From what I understood, this is basically the same but without the KS platform. I'm not going into that argument though.

In the contract with Aillio I put in a clause, where we could demand a full refund if the units are not delivered by april 2016 (I think). Just to end all descussion. We preordered in May. I don't even know if I will use that clause if april comes before delivery. Depends whether or not I think they will deliver by then. Others could do the same if they feel the wait has been too long. If you ordered in May getting told they would deliver by July, you can send them a request for a refund. Legally they would probably be obligated to refund your money. If you gave them a month's notice or so they certainly would after that month.

People having pre ordered should aks themselves before complaining and demanding: "1: Do I want my money back, or 2: do I want to wait a bit more for XX to be delivered". That is really the only options there are. Info from the company can only serve to get people from 1 to 2. Nothing more. Is it wise to give info? Yes. Most definitely! But if people want their money, they can demand a refund after a certain peirod depending on the cercumstances, info or not. Aillio can't keep the money forever if they promised delivery in July. That is simply breach of contract.

At least that's how Danish (and European) law works.

And yes. I understand your frustration.


----------



## Jens_Muff

And if people start (rightfully) demanding refunds.. that's when things get ugly!

But as long as is looks like they do deliver a good machine at a good price people will wait. They will wine a lot while waiting.. But they will wait







I think they deliver and I think the product will be worth the price. Nothing is carved in stone though and I might be wrong. But I favor the odds better now than when I pre ordered in May actually.


----------



## Coffeejon

JacobAillio said:


> We are sorry and frustrated by the shift in delivery dates, but promise you we are doing everything possible and working around the clock to get your pre-orders shipped.
> 
> /Jacob


Dear Jacob, don't know if you are still reading this forum but please start putting out regular updates (as people have asked many times before) All you need to do is just a quick pic, 1 or 2 times a week on yr face book page of production of the Bullet and showing boxes of the product ready to ship. Not to much to ask & will ease the again growing frustration of lack of good communication.

Thanks


----------



## whattodo

Aillio has updated their Facebook page and added some pictures from assembly area.


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## DavecUK

Looks good and I think it was the smart move to finally start to update their customers and future customers....better late than never.


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## RasmusDJ

Yeps, it's really good seing it, and that they are making progres.


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## Jens_Muff

The production photo album is updates again.


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## froggystyle

Lots of new photos on Facebook this morning.....


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## whattodo

New ones posted...


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## DavecUK

I think they deliver at the end of Jan 2016 don't they...so must be nearly finished now. I bet the people in the factory can't wait to get rid of him.


----------



## whattodo

Yes, it looks there is good progress at the assembly area. Maybe not end of Jan but mid Feb. Aillio guys chase after factory guys.


----------



## Viernes

These continous updates are great. That's the right way to do it.


----------



## NetDoc

whattodo said:


> Yes, it looks there is good progress at the assembly area. Maybe not end of Jan but mid Feb. Aillio guys chase after factory guys.


is this your guess on timing, or what they told you. It is somewhat frustrating that they won't directly share, in a straightforward way, their timing estimates. The photos are a step forward, but there is no way to understand what they mean. Let's say they ship by end of February for the first 15. When can the great majority of us expect the rest? April? May? June?


----------



## Jens_Muff

NetDoc said:


> is this your guess on timing, or what they told you. It is somewhat frustrating that they won't directly share, in a straightforward way, their timing estimates. The photos are a step forward, but there is no way to understand what they mean. Let's say they ship by end of February for the first 15. When can the great majority of us expect the rest? April? May? June?


I know it's still not what you're looking for but:

I spoke with Jonas two days ago.

They have shipped a few roasters, but only for retailers for testing and such. They are assembling all 200 pre order roasters at once basically one 'station' at a time and not by smaller batches at he initially thought they would. It won't really effect time of delivery, but is more of a technicality productionwise as he put it. Right now they are calibrating the roasters to make sure the roasters act the same.

They are going to do QC the roasters individually, so they will not all be shipped at once.

In a week there is Chinese New years, so the factory is closed for ten days that follow. He said, they don't have any significant set backs other than those rather inconvienient holidays.. I really tried to get a time estimate out of him, but he didn't really say too much.

My guess: If we are lucky I think the first regular pre orders will be shipped in late Feb. I think we're close but not as in 'a few days' - close. My pre order is among the first, and I would put my money on April regarding final delivery here in Denmark. March if we're lucky. Jonas would probably say March, but let's face it. My guesses have been more accurate than his until now..







I think everybody has their roasters before end of spring if nothing major shows up.

Jonas told me, that if people have questions, they are most likely to get answers through their fb page.


----------



## NetDoc

Jens_Muff said:


> My guess: If we are lucky I think the first regular pre orders will be shipped in late Feb. I think we're close but not as in 'a few days' - close. My pre order is among the first, and I would put my money on April regarding final delivery here in Denmark. March if we're lucky. Jonas would probably say March, but let's face it. My guesses have been more accurate than his until now..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think everybody has their roasters before end of spring if nothing major shows up.


something major showed up. They just posted on FB that there is a problem (and possible fix!) with the electronics for the induction heater. This is the last piece they need. Their plan is to assemble ALL 250 at once.

My completely uneducated guess - delivery in late April/early May.


----------



## Jens_Muff

NetDoc said:


> something major showed up. They just posted on FB that there is a problem (and possible fix!) with the electronics for the induction heater. This is the last piece they need. Their plan is to assemble ALL 250 at once.
> 
> My completely uneducated guess - delivery in late April/early May.


He told me two days ago. It is not a major setback though according to him. But since they are not 100% about the solution it's hard to say with certainty.

My personal guess did take the info in the update into consideration.


----------



## Coffeejon

Oh no, another problem! Just had a mail from Paypal that my pre-order money had been refunded by Aillio!!!? Title was 'Resolution of Buyer Complaint'. Sent a mail & left a facebook comment (Somebody else had the same). Any one here had the same? (No Idea what it's about)

Questions for Aillio

1. Is this true? (Haven't received any payment back yet)

2. If it is true, How will this effect my pre-order, as I have the receipt of payment from June and don't want to miss my Feb/March/ sometime this year pre-order......


----------



## Glenn

I've just dropped @JacobAillio an email to see if he can update you here


----------



## Glenn

Please bear in mind Chinese New Year is coming up (08 Feb) and a lot of business slows down or closes for this festive period which often runs for 12-14 days.


----------



## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> Oh no, another problem! Just had a mail from Paypal that my pre-order money had been refunded by Aillio!!!? Title was 'Resolution of Buyer Complaint'. Sent a mail & left a facebook comment (Somebody else had the same). Any one here had the same? (No Idea what it's about)
> 
> Questions for Aillio
> 
> 1. Is this true? (Haven't received any payment back yet)
> 
> 2. If it is true, How will this effect my pre-order, as I have the receipt of payment from June and don't want to miss my Feb/March/ sometime this year pre-order......


Perhaps it was a spa/scam mail posing as a paypal e-mail. I would have thought Aillio would have written direct and the fact that nothing is showing in your paypal account would also point to a spam/scam e-mail. If you check the e-mail header, you can see if it's really from paypal.

I cannot imagine why Aillio would want to refund pre-order money like this when they are so close to completing the roasters and shipping them, presumably within the next month or so. It doesn't make sense.


----------



## aaroncornish

Check your paypal transaction details. Whenver I get a refund it seems to require 'additional checks' - Paypal hold on to the money for a few days, then it shows on my balance.


----------



## Coffeejon

aaroncornish said:


> Check your paypal transaction details. Whenver I get a refund it seems to require 'additional checks' - Paypal hold on to the money for a few days, then it shows on my balance.


Sorry, it is real. Legit email and is in my PayPal account. What the hell is going on?!!


----------



## aaroncornish

Oh dear! Not good. Hope it is a mistake.


----------



## "coffee 4/1"

Coffeejon said:


> Sorry, it is real. Legit email and is in my PayPal account. What the hell is going on?!!


blimey that's a bit late, refunding paypal payments were made in august. as i had email from aillio early august.


----------



## Coffeejon

Glenn said:


> I've just dropped @JacobAillio an email to see if he can update you here


Thx!


----------



## Coffeejon

Ok, update. Jonas has contacted me and said it was due to Paypal telling them they had to refund the money.

So, I can re-Pre-order and keep my slot. Will let you know how that turns out, as will be annoyed if I loose money on exchange rates, we'll see....


----------



## JacobAillio

Hi again.



> In every project I have backed and in every kickstarter I have heard about there are delays and often manufacturers/owners work all day and just don't have the patience and time to sit down and update people.
> 
> As far as I can see there are no doomsday predictions, things are coming along but at a delayed pace. You have to give things in production the benefit of the doubt when it's obvious that its a real product that's on its way.


This is kind of what is happening. Jonas and I work from 9am until 1am everyday, and that is what we focus on. I will try to check these post more often.

Writing a newsletter is not something you do in a few hours...it takes a lot of work.

I think Jens have pretty much kept you in the loop through his phone calls with Jonas. To sum up:

The manufacturer of the induction board caught a issue and asked us for more time to change this. We never ourselves had any problems with this, but better let the guys change it. We already have the new board here and are testing like crazy.

The second electronic board which controls the roaster is all finished, and we have not found any issues yet - very happy about this! We added some cool features and made it future proof (a new patent might be applied for, but more on this later).

Another small issue we had was the temperature probe for the beans. We first got prototypes and then ordered 1000 pcs. However when testing them again we were not quite happy. So now we have changed the design (a new custom made design) and just received the new ones. These perform much better (react faster), so another issue solved.

Special made high temperature cable is also finished and we just completed ozone and temperature testing to ensure a long lifetime.

Chinese New Year is just around the corner, but Jonas and I will continue working. We have more tests to do, more code to write and more coffee to taste.

Cheers


----------



## Coffeejon

Coffeejon said:


> Ok, update. Jonas has contacted me and said it was due to Paypal telling them they had to refund the money.
> 
> So, I can re-Pre-order and keep my slot. Will let you know how that turns out, as will be annoyed if I loose money on exchange rates, we'll see....


As I thought, just lost £134.49 on the re-order, not happy....


----------



## RasmusDJ

You didn't get full refund for the first pre order? Or is money that PayPal took for the transaction?


----------



## Coffeejon

RasmusDJ said:


> You didn't get full refund for the first pre order? Or is money that PayPal took for the transaction?


Hi

Got a full (- fees and exchange rate changes) refund, but due to exchange rate changes and bank/PayPay fees for exchanging £ to Euros (now x3 times) I've lost £134.49 in total from my original purchase total


----------



## DavecUK

I've been quite busy for the last few weeks, so lost track of this one. Have you guys got your roasters yet, if so, how are you finding them?


----------



## RasmusDJ

No news for the last couple of days, atm its chinese new year and its a public holiday. Aillio is still working, with testing a quality control. As Jens has said, I dont expect my roaster until end of march, start april. I would much rather wait a couple of months, and the quality is 10% better.


----------



## DavecUK

RasmusDJ said:


> No news for the last couple of days, atm its chinese new year and its a public holiday. Aillio is still working, with testing a quality control. As Jens has said, I dont expect my roaster until end of march, start april. I would much rather wait a couple of months, and the quality is 10% better.


Absolutely, much better to have delays and get a decent product. I am looking forward to hear peoples impressions of this one, should make a great little home roaster. I just hope people set up a safe external roasting area (e.g. shed etc..) to roast in. At the moment i can't roast because I'm having building work done and although I can get to my roaster, there is no easy exit or access to fire extinguishers, because all their stuff is stored in my garage/workshop.....So it's Tea for me from today as I have enough left for 1 more double shot.


----------



## NetDoc

RasmusDJ said:


> No news for the last couple of days, atm its chinese new year and its a public holiday. Aillio is still working, with testing a quality control. As Jens has said, I dont expect my roaster until end of march, start april. I would much rather wait a couple of months, and the quality is 10% better.


Do you know something we don't? There hasn't been any comment on their Facebook page (where they requested that ALL questions be directed) for two weeks. Does anyone have any information? How can we convince them to spend a few minutes a day updating their customers (funders!) and answering questions? It is a little frustrating.


----------



## RasmusDJ

Nope, i don't know anything that hasn't already been said. Wish that I did though.


----------



## Jens_Muff

NetDoc said:


> Do you know something we don't? There hasn't been any comment on their Facebook page (where they requested that ALL questions be directed) for two weeks. Does anyone have any information? How can we convince them to spend a few minutes a day updating their customers (funders!) and answering questions? It is a little frustrating.


Jacob posted here a weekend ago and since then it has been Chinese New Years.

But I wrote Jonas today for an update and he shortly replied that they are up to speed again with good energy. So no real news other than what they already told us.


----------



## Jens_Muff

From Aillio's facebook (a comment on their last update from start Feb) Jonas writing.

"Sorry guys, I had to take a few days off and get away from the computer to recharge during Chinese New Year.

Jacob has been hard at work on the software and firmware.

Yes, the PCB is working well, we have had no issues with the updates that were made.

The 220V version works perfectly, the 110V version has a few more hours of tweaking to do, but we will do this at the factory.

We have just got the test results from the cable that connects the PCBs and motors etc. The cable is a high temp TPE cable made specifically for the Bullet. We send it to a test lab to have it ozone, UV and a temperature checked. All passed ! These cables are not so easy to change, so we really wanted to make sure they will last a long long time.

We are also working on the instruction manual, and will post the links to this when its done.

We have also received quotes for the shipping, and the cost is less than what I had mentioned previously.

All this will be in a newsletter coming out hopefully at the end of this week."


----------



## whattodo

Sounds great...


----------



## aurelienjavelle

I am going to follow up this convo, I am waiting for two bullet in pre-order as well







Can't wait to get them.


----------



## Coffeejon

and we have lift off (nearly)

http://us7.campaign-archive2.com/?u=d3e63b3e46104e3c90a9cdfaa&id=1639f5608b


----------



## "coffee 4/1"

It's been long enough for you, PCB's done first batch Aus, Denmark, Singapore,hopefully your's mid April, looking forward to your feedback.


----------



## froggystyle

Anyone got a confirmed date yet for delivery, seen some were shipped and also someone on twitter had one and was praising it....


----------



## froggystyle

All gone quite here.......


----------



## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> All gone quite here.......


I am sure it will be delivered soon....the main concern would be not delivery, but if there is some problem that has been missed that requires huge amounts of resource from Aillio to put right. In some ways slow delivery and a drip feed of roasters could be for the best.


----------



## 4085

tick, tick, tick......whats that?.......another month of your life mate


----------



## Coffeejon

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Nr3F6msKSreJHAjXwL5EXKxsGubk2bhClxQG2VueUzo/edit?pref=2&pli=1

Early version of the Manual. Gives us something to chew on while we wait.... and wait....


----------



## DavecUK

What's happening guys, has anyone got their roaster yet, if so, hows it going?


----------



## Coffeejon

Nope, but here's what they are saying....

First things first: We are happy to report that the first Bullets have already shipped and been received in Australia and Singapore! In fact, even as I write this newsletter, there are more Bullets (including 110V versions) being personally tested by Jacob in the factory downstairs before we send them on their way to Korea, Denmark, and Japan.

Needless to say, we are absolutely ecstatic, and are very much looking forward to more and more of you receiving your roasters. We can't emphasize enough how much we appreciate your loyalty and patience. Without you? This project would have never gotten off the ground floor.

Many of you know that we have been very busy recently, and we have a few changes to announce. We've moved our office to a new location at the Syntrend Creative Park near the Guanghua Electronics Plaza in Taipei, and we've also hired a new team member, who happens to be writing this newsletter. Hi! I'm Taylor and I will be assisting the Twins with their communications in the future. Nice to "meet" you all!

The change that will interest you most, however, is one that is coming in the next couple weeks. Until now, we've only been able to produce about 2 roasters per day, but we will soon be able to triple our speed to about 6 roasters per day.

As for shipping, TNT will be handling all orders to ensure the process is as smooth as possible. On that note, we have some other great news to report: the shipping prices for the Bullet R1 have been reduced even further thanks to some packaging optimization by the Twins. For instance, you may remember that we initially estimated a Bullet shipping to the US may cost between 2-300 US dollars. That same Bullet is now expected to ship for only 160 US dollars. Big difference, eh?

Finally, Aillio will be participating in this year's SCAA Expo in Atlanta, from April 14-17. We still have about 10 free tickets for those of you who are interested in meeting the team and seeing the roaster in action. So if you're gonna be in the area, feel free to get in touch with us on Facebook for a chance to nab some freebies!

As more and more Bullet roasters arrive at their new homes all across the globe, expect to see more updates from us! In the meantime, if you're interested in geeking out a little bit, here is a link to our work-in-progress, an early draft of the official manual for the Bullet R1. (Just don't print it out yet! It's still being written!)

Keep on roasting,

The Aillio Team


----------



## DavecUK

What about an expected delivery date for your UK roasters?

I am looking forward to seeing how they perform, but it does seem to be taking an age for someone in the UK to get one. I have searched online, but so far, the only reviews are by the manufacturer, none of the current reciepients appears to have reviewed it.


----------



## froggystyle

DavecUK said:


> What about an expected delivery date for your UK roasters?
> 
> I am looking forward to seeing how they perform, but it does seem to be taking an age for someone in the UK to get one. I have searched online, but so far, the only reviews are by the manufacturer, none of the current reciepients appears to have reviewed it.


The roasting party in the uk have received one, back in late March, they like it.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/712209500426657792


----------



## Coffeejon

froggystyle said:


> The roasting party in the uk have received one, back in late March, they like it.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/712209500426657792


Cheers for this, I didn't know we had 1 in the UK. Only a matter of time now


----------



## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> Cheers for this, I didn't know we had 1 in the UK. Only a matter of time now


I guess it's always only been a matter of time


----------



## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> I guess it's always only been a matter of time


yer, tell me about it......


----------



## Jens_Muff

DavecUK said:


> What's happening guys, has anyone got their roaster yet, if so, hows it going?


I have got a notification from the shipping company saying they are picking my package up from Aillio the 25th.

Guess it won't be too long now


----------



## Jens_Muff

My faithful Behmor has roasted Its last batch









Sendt fra min Nexus 6P med Tapatalk


----------



## froggystyle

Its a nice looking bit of kit, be really interested to know how it performs.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Jens_Muff said:


> My faithful Behmor has roasted Its last batch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sendt fra min Nexus 6P med Tapatalk


Head roaster looks a bit young.


----------



## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> Its a nice looking bit of kit, be really interested to know how it performs.


I know for sure it has to be better than the "Bear more"


----------



## froggystyle

@NetDoc and @Coffeejon Did you get yours also?


----------



## Jens_Muff

froggystyle said:


> Its a nice looking bit of kit, be really interested to know how it performs.


I have only done 3 roasts today. 3x500 gram. Seasoning the drum, so I basically killed the beans through 2C and stalled them afterwards so the drum could get a bit of "coating". Don't even think Starbucks would want them









I didn't have time to do more since I was alone with kiddo today. So my experience is still based on my 10-15 roasts on the borrowed unit during the winter.

I can tell that this one does cool a whole lot quicker now after the new cooling unit has twice as many holes. It was a bit cold outside, so that probably helped also. Two minutes and the beans were cold.

I roasted outside - and for the love of God - do your seasoning outside or something similar.



DavecUK said:


> I know for sure it has to be better than the "Bear more"


Without doubt


----------



## Coffeejon

froggystyle said:


> @NetDoc and @Coffeejon Did you get yours also?


nope, will probably be a while yet


----------



## Coffeejon

Looks good jens, very much hope mine arrives soon.


----------



## Stevie

Did you order through Bella Barista?


----------



## Coffeejon

Stevie said:


> Did you order through Bella Barista?


No, all these Roasters are from Pre-order. I think they have delivered about 10 of the 250 pre-ordered, so will be a while until Bella Barista will get them. Also Dave will need to test one, so we're talking quite a way off yet until they are up for normal sale.


----------



## Jens_Muff

I just want to share my experience with the Bullet so far. I have written them down here:

http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?topic=9245.msg9984#msg9984


----------



## DavecUK

Jens_Muff said:


> I just want to share my experience with the Bullet so far. I have written them down here:
> 
> http://www.bulletr1.com/index.php?topic=9245.msg9984#msg9984


It's a real shame that guests are not allowed to view Images?


----------



## RasmusDJ

DavecUK said:


> It's a real shame that guests are not allowed to view Images?


Hi Dave

That has never been the intention, so it has been changed by now


----------



## DavecUK

RasmusDJ said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> That has never been the intention, so it has been changed by now


Ah, now I can see the roasts... Hopefully Jens will temper that ramp up from first and slow down the roast a little, I suspect it will be more even if he does.


----------



## Jens_Muff

Yeah.. I'm working on it. Before you know it it has already happened







You kind of have to know when the bean cracks to slow things down in time.

I will keep updating the thread.


----------



## Coffeejon

Wanted to update this forum on the Bullet. It's shipping now to the pre-orders. I hopefully get mine mid June. Last Pre-orders expected to ship end of July. Looking fwd to sharing my impressions of the roaster and using it!


----------



## Coffeejon

And it's arrived. Nice piece of kit, though a big new learning curve. If you are interested in this machine, I and others are writing their experience & thoughts on the user group facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1667530986833160/?fref=nf

They are still shipping the pre- orders so I doubt will be for general sale until the end of the year. I'll probably report back once I have a few good roasts under my belt, and I have logged some profiles on the software.


----------



## Coffeejon

Heads up, Aillio will soon be taking new orders. Be quick as it's a seriously great machine.


----------



## DavecUK

Coffeejon said:


> Heads up, Aillio will soon be taking new orders. Be quick as it's a seriously great machine.


Looks as if they will mostly be taking Europe and UK orders direct rather than through retail networks. I see they list the retailers in Europe/UK, but don't mention them at all?


----------



## Coffeejon

DavecUK said:


> Looks as if they will mostly be taking Europe and UK orders direct rather than through retail networks. I see they list the retailers in Europe/UK, but don't mention them at all?


Yer you are right. Be good when Bella can get a look in. On the plus side, i've had very good support fron them, so not to worried about lack of support.


----------



## 4085

Oxymoron alert.......


----------



## Coffeejon

dfk41 said:


> Oxymoron alert.......


.....and..... back to roasting


----------



## Macca

Read this thread from start to finish over breakfast this morning and was enthralled! Sounds like a roller coaster of a journey those with pre-orders and interest in the product have been on.

You can't leave curious browsers hanging though! What happened next? Did everyone who pre-ordered here receive theirs? For those who did get theirs, how's it holding out and have you conquered that learning curve coffeejon Mentioned? Did Dave ever get his hands on one?

So many questions! Haha


----------



## Coffeejon

Macca said:


> Read this thread from start to finish over breakfast this morning and was enthralled! Sounds like a roller coaster of a journey those with pre-orders and interest in the product have been on.
> 
> You can't leave curious browsers hanging though! What happened next? Did everyone who pre-ordered here receive theirs? For those who did get theirs, how's it holding out and have you conquered that learning curve coffeejon Mentioned? Did Dave ever get his hands on one?
> 
> So many questions! Haha


Thx for the questions. I've had the bullet now for about 3 months and I think it's an amazing piece of kit, there really is nothing like it. I have had a bit of a bumpy ride, with some problems, but the x2 guys who have designed it and who are selling it have been literally been on the phone to sort it all out, so I am completely happy as I've never had customer service like it.

Plus sides.

- You can plug it into a normal plug and roast 1kg of coffee no probs. (induction heating) & use a normal hob extraction fan to remove smoke.

- Plug it into a laptop and you literally get state of the art roasting, with bean, drum temps, ROR live plotting, recording, playback, overlays etc etc, amazing really. (for free!)

- It really is fun to use, and I can blast out some really great roasts, no probs (300g - 1kg). + a sampler will be arriving to me soon!

- Really good community on Facebook, with lot's of people sharing roasts, ideas, tweaks, 3d parts etc.

- Not very complex and can be fairly easily taken apart (which I'm good at now









- It is a very good price

- The main plus for me is I'm using it in a coffee shop and can leave it to roast. I obviously have to keep an eye on it, but it will roast in the back ground while I serve customers. No other machine of this size will do this as far as I know (at this price point) Hence why I haven't bought the larger Gene cafe etc.

Negative

- It does take a bit of tweaking and does need allot of attention to keep it in tiptop form. (you do need to clean various parts quite often)

- The main negative for me is the chaff collector, which is small and hard to clean. I can get about x3 roasts out of it, before I need to open it up to clean (they say this will be updated and improved in the near future)

- The drum does need a bit of tweaking to set up at the beginning, so be prepared to 'fiddle' with the machine a fair bit.

- The cooling tray I think is a little underpowered, but keep it clean and free of chaff every roast it cools quickly.

I believe they now have a 2nd round of orders, so I believe it really is an amazing machine and it is just miles ahead of anything else (Gene Cafe really need to step up their game). Get one as it can be used by a beginner through to an expert, very pleased with it


----------



## Rob1

Thought I'd find a thread to revive with the news that Bella Barista have seen the roaster in action and expect stock within 6 months. Listed as £2500 at the moment. They were impressed with the roasts and I presume they'll be sending one away for testing.


----------



## Coffeejon

Great stuff. I now have x2 of them and have done 100's of KG's on mine, still going strong. Someone has also made software which you can edit roast profiles, so you can tweek the roast for perfect curves, very cool.


----------



## Coffeejon

Coffeejon said:


> Thx for the questions. I've had the bullet now for about 3 months and I think it's an amazing piece of kit, there really is nothing like it. I have had a bit of a bumpy ride, with some problems, but the x2 guys who have designed it and who are selling it have been literally been on the phone to sort it all out, so I am completely happy as I've never had customer service like it.
> 
> Plus sides.
> 
> - You can plug it into a normal plug and roast 1kg of coffee no probs. (induction heating) & use a normal hob extraction fan to remove smoke.
> 
> - Plug it into a laptop and you literally get state of the art roasting, with bean, drum temps, ROR live plotting, recording, playback, overlays etc etc, amazing really. (for free!)
> 
> - It really is fun to use, and I can blast out some really great roasts, no probs (300g - 1kg). + a sampler will be arriving to me soon!
> 
> - Really good community on Facebook, with lot's of people sharing roasts, ideas, tweaks, 3d parts etc.
> 
> - Not very complex and can be fairly easily taken apart (which I'm good at now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - It is a very good price
> 
> - The main plus for me is I'm using it in a coffee shop and can leave it to roast. I obviously have to keep an eye on it, but it will roast in the back ground while I serve customers. No other machine of this size will do this as far as I know (at this price point) Hence why I haven't bought the larger Gene cafe etc.
> 
> Negative
> 
> - It does take a bit of tweaking and does need allot of attention to keep it in tiptop form. (you do need to clean various parts quite often)
> 
> - The main negative for me is the chaff collector, which is small and hard to clean. I can get about x3 roasts out of it, before I need to open it up to clean (they say this will be updated and improved in the near future)
> 
> - The drum does need a bit of tweaking to set up at the beginning, so be prepared to 'fiddle' with the machine a fair bit.
> 
> - The cooling tray I think is a little underpowered, but keep it clean and free of chaff every roast it cools quickly.
> 
> I believe they now have a 2nd round of orders, so I believe it really is an amazing machine and it is just miles ahead of anything else (Gene Cafe really need to step up their game). Get one as it can be used by a beginner through to an expert, very pleased with it


Just to update this thread.

- They now have updated the software, so you can do back to back roasting

- They now have updated the filter in the chaff collector, so I can get 5-6 1kg roasts before emptying the chaff collector.


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## beo1329

Does anyone know if it is available in Europe or not? The machine does not have CE certification (they might have it this summer, based on Aillio support message), so I assume we cannot find stock in Europe.


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## mathof

It was listed on Bella Barista's website recently.


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## beo1329

mathof said:


> It was listed on Bella Barista's website recently.


They had one, but was a test unit. The bullet does not have CE certification so they won't have it in stock. Aillio plans to aquire the certification this summer, hopefully. They ship it to Europe, but Hungary has a 10% import tax and 27%vat, so adding this to the 2600 USD +250USD shipping would be rather expensive. I was hoping somebody sells it within Europe.


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## Coffeejon

I'd approach them directly for an update.

In the mean while the facebook group is really going from strength to strength (Mainly US users). (you'll need to join it) https://www.facebook.com/groups/1667530986833160/

as now there are quite a few 'pros' using it and sharing their knowledge and producing some excellent roast profiles.


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## Wajid

Hi - to anyone who owns the Bullet R1:

I'm thinking of attaching a ventilation duct to the back of the cooling tray (where the fan expels air) - what are the dimensions of the back portion here?

I've found specs for this hard to come by.


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## Coffeejon

Wajid said:


> Hi - to anyone who owns the Bullet R1:
> 
> I'm thinking of attaching a ventilation duct to the back of the cooling tray (where the fan expels air) - what are the dimensions of the back portion here?
> 
> I've found specs for this hard to come by.


You can download the adapter here. I asked a guy on this forum to print it out for me, works perfect and you can reuse the screws on the cooling tray to attach it.

https://aillio.com/?page_id=12771&v=d826e6d8962e


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## Wajid

Coffeejon said:


> You can download the adapter here. I asked a guy on this forum to print it out for me, works perfect and you can reuse the screws on the cooling tray to attach it.
> 
> https://aillio.com/?page_id=12771&v=d826e6d8962e


Thanks I've downloaded the plans for this adapter - it fits onto the top rear end for smoke exhaust.

Additionally I wanted to design an adapter for the back of the collection/cooling unit where the beans go after roasting is complete - so it's these dimensions I was wondering about... ?


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## Coffeejon

Wajid said:


> Thanks I've downloaded the plans for this adapter - it fits onto the top rear end for smoke exhaust.
> 
> Additionally I wanted to design an adapter for the back of the collection/cooling unit where the beans go after roasting is complete - so it's these dimensions I was wondering about... ?


Sorry, I meant to send you this link. If you can't download it, send me a PM with your email address & I'll forward you the STL file. This time it is the adapter for the cooling tray, I've just checked.

https://www.facebook.com/download/1229912277048404/80mmto100mm_fanShroud.STL?hash=AcoZmYDqfUNU4NjP


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## cozzarr

Hi to owners of the Bullet R1! I have a couple of questions about ordering it directly - how long did it take to arrive? Did you have to pay any import tax on it when it arrived? How are you getting on with it so far? Do you have any experience with any other 1kg roasters?

Thanks


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## Coffeejon

cozzarr said:


> Hi to owners of the Bullet R1! I have a couple of questions about ordering it directly - how long did it take to arrive? Did you have to pay any import tax on it when it arrived? How are you getting on with it so far? Do you have any experience with any other 1kg roasters?
> 
> Thanks


- Took a few months I believe

- Yes, around £400 I think

- It's a an amazing machine, I have x2 and have done 100's if not 1000's of KG's through mine.

- No, I had a gene cafe before, this is a massive step up.

- join the facebook group, as there are 100's of people who can give you info there search 'Aillio Bullet R1 User Group'


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## Hom3br3w

Hi all,

I've been in touch with the producers of the A1 Bullet and they are hoping to get CE approval by end of Summer/Fall... so I wouldn't hold your breath but hopefully they'll nail it and we'll be able to buy these roasters within the EU soon and avoid the heavy import/VAT costs, etc.


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## Beeroclock

Good luck with that...It's going to cost you £2400-£2500 - unless you get lucky. But the latest batch seems to be suffering quite a few issues, been following it on Facebook - I've no doubt the Allio will address each individual's issues.

But I've decided on another route now.


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## Coffeejon

Small update on my x2 bullets. Aillio have recently released an updated IR bean temp sensor, which directly reads the temp of the beans in real time in the drum. It was easy to fit and now I'm trying to rebuild my portolio of roast profiles for the new sensor. They have also released a new version of Roastime (free) which now links to 'Roast World' where other people can look up bean types / Roast profiles and with a click of your mouse start the roaster with that profile. Where I hope the new sensor and software will be better (for me) is near perfect transfer of profiles between my x2 machines (maybe soon x3), so they roast exactly as each other. The old sensor I found got less acurate with age, so I hope this fixes this issue. Otherwise the roasters are still going strong, 3 years later and prob at least a couple of tons through them. Cheers


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## SamB

i have two machines, the 1st version and the latest V2 version (on the ship right now). im excited by the V2 but to be honest i think that the V1 is so good that even a marginal improvement around the edges will be amazing.

currently im around 1000lbs of green through the V1 with zero issues. yes i have to clean the sensor but its a pretty easy job.

i would say that if you can get your hands on one then grab it. you will not be disappointed


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## Coffeejon

SamB said:


> i have two machines, the 1st version and the latest V2 version (on the ship right now). im excited by the V2 but to be honest i think that the V1 is so good that even a marginal improvement around the edges will be amazing.
> 
> currently im around 1000lbs of green through the V1 with zero issues. yes i have to clean the sensor but its a pretty easy job.
> 
> i would say that if you can get your hands on one then grab it. you will not be disappointed


 Hi Sam

I've updated my 1st Bullet to the new V2 IR sensor & so far so good. It seems much more stable than the V1 sensor & you also don't need to clean the glass (major plus) I now have x3 bullets and I hope that once I'm happy with roasttime V2 It will be another level of consistancy when I share the same roast profiles with the other machines. Let me know how you get on, would be interested.


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## GUY C-P

@SamB I would be interested to know how much the V2 set you back, including import duty/VAT if you are willing to share?

thanks Guy


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## SamB

wells its a little different for me as i travel a lot between america and the UK. so i actually purchased it to be delivered to the states and then i will bring it over on the plane (its under 50lbs and is well packed).

anyway i paid $2900 US with shipping for the version 2 at 200-250V. so no import taxes. it would have been cheaper to get the 110V USA version (selling for ~$2750) but i really wanted the higher voltage.

i know this doesnt really help you in you understanding of VAT etc but the machine is that good that i have one (110V) in USA and one (220V) in the UK. if you every want to try it i live in Aberdeen.


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