# Coffee levelling tool



## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Just purchased a 53mm coffee levelling tool, best thing ever, I would recommend getting one if you don't already have, as my shots are now a lot more consistent, my blade and tamp are now redundant.

I'm using the single wall double shot basket, 18g dose, and levelling with the tool, no tamp and getting a very good 60g shot over 27 seconds with fresh beans from 47 degree coffee.


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## Cooky8ean (Dec 5, 2019)

Where did you get it from? I've been looking for a while but not sure which to buy fit wise. You may have convinced me!


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Cooky8ean said:


> Where did you get it from? I've been looking for a while but not sure which to buy fit wise. You may have convinced me!


 I Got it from Bellabarista, its not cheap £29 plus postage, but is dose the Job well. you can pick them up off the net for £15 if you can find stock of a 53mm one.


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## Cooky8ean (Dec 5, 2019)

Dalerst said:


> I Got it from Bellabarista, its not cheap £29 plus postage, but is dose the Job well. you can pick them up off the net for £15 if you can find stock of a 53mm one.


Thanks for reply, I'll have a look.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Out of stock again!!

has anyone tried the eBay cheaper version?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I have a cheap one it's a little shite.?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I have a cheapo chinese one and apart from the base not being massively precise its well put together. It said it was 58.5mm but I would be surprised if its any more than 58mm.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

I did look at the cheap one from china, but I'm one that things you get what you pay for.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Jony said:


> I have a cheap one it's a little shite.?


 This one?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114020478201


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I mean, its a super simple thing to make. The only thing that requires any real precision is the diameter of the wedge. How OCD and the like can charge over £100 is beyond me.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

mctrials23 said:


> I mean, its a super simple thing to make. The only thing that requires any real precision is the diameter of the wedge. How OCD and the like can charge over £100 is beyond me.


 Do you have the one I linked above?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> Do you have the one I linked above?


 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/58-5mm-Adjust-Espresso-Powder-Hammer-Convex-Distributor-Leveler-Coffee-Tamper/392266105005?hash=item5b54e1c0ad:g68AAOSwuVtbu0HO

Pretty certain thats the one I have.


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> Just purchased a 53mm coffee levelling tool, best thing ever, I would recommend getting one if you don't already have, as my shots are now a lot more consistent, my blade and tamp are now redundant


 I ordered one on Amazon and that's what i received... 51.5mm instead of 53mm.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0827H4PYX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

tonezone6 said:


> I ordered one on Amazon and that's what i received... 51.5mm instead of 53mm.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0827H4PYX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


 I Can't see 1.5mm making that much difference, just give it a very light tamp after levelling so the coffee on the edge is level.


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> I Can't see 1.5mm making that much difference, just give it a very light tamp after levelling so the coffee on the edge is level.


 What's curios is that i measured the included Sage tamper (the one with magnet) and it is approximately the same size, maybe a little smaller with 0.5mm.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

tonezone6 said:


> What's curios is that i measured the included Sage tamper (the one with magnet) and it is approximately the same size, maybe a little smaller with 0.5mm.


 Maybe its to fit a 53mm portafilter, will measure mine later.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I think you will find anything that is 54mm dia wont fit into Sage's small size baskets. 53mm will but probably not as well as Sage's. If small just offset and rotate that way. If a tamper think of it as a firm polish after a normal tamp.

Personally having used one I would stay away from 3 wing types but don't use them for tamping. Just to set the tamper square leaving some tamping for it to do. As fill height varies the pressure applied to the puck by the grooming tool varies but I keep it low.

 With the 2 slope type I managed to get my normal dose for a certain basket into a smaller one as I had forgotten what basket was in the portafilter. The tamping pressure must have been enormous. In another case I have had it leave the grinds in a V shape that moves as the tool is rotated.

I'm using 58mm now. Like some one else when I switched to a 58.5mm grooming tool. I still have to offset it and rotate. May as well have stuck with the 58mm one. 3 wing ones in this respect pass. I don't need to offset a 58.5mm tamper and polish but results are no different to doing that with a 58mm.

These things are around on amazon as well. Their search can make it difficult to find all of the variants that are available. Prices can be good.

John

-


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

I bought the Motta 53mm levelling tool from Bella Barista to be used with the Barista Pro - from my brief use, I found the lowest setting to be too deep for the basket and it goes below the razor tool 'line'. The tool doesn't rest on the rim of the portafilter, it sits on the bed of coffee - you end up tamping whilst distributing which I am imagine will likely lead to an uneven puck.


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

HVL87 said:


> I bought the Motta 53mm levelling tool from Bella Barista to be used with the Barista Pro - from my brief use, I found the lowest setting to be too deep for the basket and it goes below the razor tool 'line'. The tool doesn't rest on the rim of the portafilter, it sits on the bed of coffee - you end up tamping whilst distributing which I am imagine will likely lead to an uneven puck.


 At least from this point of view the Matow distribution tool is not that deep. They specify a 5.5mm at minimum setting.


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

I've got a cheap one and it seems to help with initial levelling as long as you use a closer tolerance tamper afterwards, such as a 53.4mm. diameter tamper.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

HVL87 said:


> I bought the Motta 53mm levelling tool from Bella Barista to be used with the Barista Pro - from my brief use, I found the lowest setting to be too deep for the basket and it goes below the razor tool 'line'. The tool doesn't rest on the rim of the portafilter, it sits on the bed of coffee - you end up tamping whilst distributing which I am imagine will likely lead to an uneven puck.


 I find it works a treat, I put 18g in the basket and always get an even well distributed puck. With the standard tamp that's comes with the machine, would you not be distributing and tamping at the same time anyway! And 9 out of 10 time not a level tamp!?!


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Dalerst said:


> I find it works a treat, I put 18g in the basket and always get an even well distributed puck. With the standard tamp that's comes with the machine, would you not be distributing and tamping at the same time anyway! And 9 out of 10 time not a level tamp!?!


 Not necessarily. I would typically fill the basket up to around 13-14g, then tap the portafilter vertically on a tamping mat to settle the grounds. This helps to distribute and not spill too much coffee from the grinder afterwards. I then fill up to the desired dose and tap the portafilter vertically and horizontally until the bed of coffee is as level as possible. I then tamp with the included tamper.

My understanding is that the distribution tool should sit on the rim of the portafilter and spin relatively freely to create a flat and even surface to tamp on with the tamper. I don't think I can achieve this with the Motta.

Also I'm not sure it's always easy to tell if the puck is well distributed, as it may only give that appearance from the surface. That's why many seem to buy a bottomless portafilter so you can really understand if the puck is prepared well.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

HVL87 said:


> Not necessarily. I would typically fill the basket up to around 13-14g, then tap the portafilter vertically on a tamping mat to settle the grounds. This helps to distribute and not spill too much coffee from the grinder afterwards. I then fill up to the desired dose and tap the portafilter vertically and horizontally until the bed of coffee is as level as possible. I then tamp with the included tamper.
> 
> My understanding is that the distribution tool should sit on the rim of the portafilter and spin relatively freely to create a flat and even surface to tamp on with the tamper. I don't think I can achieve this with the Motta.
> 
> Also I'm not sure it's always easy to tell if the puck is well distributed, as it may only give that appearance from the surface. That's why many seem to buy a bottomless portafilter so you can really understand if the puck is prepared well.


 I do a very similar process, but just dont ues the provided tamp, motta seems to work for me. I do inspect the puck after ive pulled the shot.

I have been looking for a bottomless portafilter but struggling to find in a 54mm


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## Pseudonym (Aug 31, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> Out of stock again!!
> 
> has anyone tried the eBay cheaper version?


 You'll find the Motta 53mm level on Amazon. Not cheap @ circa £30


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## longhardgrind (Mar 17, 2017)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079Y2TGLQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I got this one last week, the depth is adjustable. After decades of doing it the old fashioned way, I'm merrily surprised to discover that it actually works.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

longhardgrind said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079Y2TGLQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I got this one last week, the depth is adjustable. After decades of doing it the old fashioned way, I'm merrily surprised to discover that it actually works.


 They don't seem to have a 53mm option? Apart from as a set


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Pseudonym said:


> You'll find the Motta 53mm level on Amazon. Not cheap @ circa £30


 I can't seem to find the 53, only the 58?


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

TomHughes said:


> I can't seem to find the 53, only the 58?


 In stock

https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/motta-adjustable-leveler-53mm-10340-p.asp


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## Pseudonym (Aug 31, 2016)

TomHughes said:


> I can't seem to find the 53, only the 58?


pianacaffã ¨ Mm 53 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077VV5RNH?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


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## Pseudonym (Aug 31, 2016)

Just on the Motta - depth of level is a screw down of the blade into the lid


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Minimum is 5mm as well but that works perfectly with my portafilter.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Pseudonym said:


> pianacaffã ¨ Mm 53 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077VV5RNH?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


 Nice one, it's my birthday today so I might treat myself.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

TomHughes said:


> Nice one, it's my birthday today so I might treat myself.


 Happy birthday Tom ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Happy b day give us your PP will gift you £5 cause I am nice?


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## longhardgrind (Mar 17, 2017)

When I ordered mine they were selling the 53mm on its own, but now they seem to have parcelled it up with a bit of silicon, good way to up the price?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

longhardgrind said:


> When I ordered mine they were selling the 53mm on its own, but now they seem to have parcelled it up with a bit of silicon, good way to up the price?


 Yes I think potentially out of stock.

how shallow does it go? same 5mm as the Motta?


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## longhardgrind (Mar 17, 2017)

Yup; 5mm min and 10mm max. It was, then, £23.61 with free delivery.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> Yes I think potentially out of stock.
> 
> how shallow does it go? same 5mm as the Motta?


 I wouldn't get one that isn't depth adjustable via two parts that screw together....i.e if it uses shims or can't be set after putting it on the portafilter. The reason is I use mine by screwing it down into the coffee and it works much better than using it at a set depth. Some coffees I screw it down 5 half turns, some 6, some 7. You can see the difference in the pour. I wouldn't get a cheap 3 or 4 slope one as they are mainly flat bases with little wedges cut into them and they won't logically do the job as well as a single wedge (chisel style). The Jack Leveller looks decent for a multi-wedge style one but works by setting the depth before use....it's also expensive.

Mine's the scarlet espresso 58mm one but you can find 58.5mm versions too on amazon from other manufacturers. Ebay is full of them too.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> I wouldn't get one that isn't depth adjustable via two parts that screw together....i.e if it uses shims or can't be set after putting it on the portafilter. The reason is I use mine by screwing it down into the coffee and it works much better than using it at a set depth. Some coffees I screw it down 5 half turns, some 6, some 7. You can see the difference in the pour. I wouldn't get a cheap 3 or 4 slope one as they are mainly flat bases with little wedges cut into them and they won't logically do the job as well as a single wedge (chisel style). The Jack Leveller looks decent for a multi-wedge style one but works by setting the depth before use....it's also expensive.
> 
> Mine's the scarlet espresso 58mm one but you can find 58.5mm versions too on amazon from other manufacturers. Ebay is full of them too.


 I'm not sure any of these exist for 53mm though having looked


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomHughes said:


> I'm not sure any of these exist for 53mm though having looked


 The Scarlet one is 53mm, but doesn't currently seem to be available without the £10 "tamperblage"...whatever that is.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MWJB said:


> The Scarlet one is 53mm, but doesn't currently seem to be available without the £10 "tamperblage"...whatever that is.


 Cool. I saw they used to have them in stock so maybe just out of stock of the non-set at the moment.

I am actually more interested by the Barista Hustle distribution tool, as their explanation of why a conventional tool isn't optimal is intriguing to say the least.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomHughes said:


> I am actually more interested by the Barista Hustle distribution tool, as their explanation of why a conventional tool isn't optimal is intriguing to say the least.


 Sure, but I wouldn't look at the Scarlet to distribute per se, just to smooth the puck/tamp, after distributing manually with side/down taps.

From James Hoffmann's video, Perger's tool looks more like it will be a machine, more for cafe use?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Sure, but I wouldn't look at the Scarlet to distribute per se, just to smooth the puck/tamp, after distributing manually with side/down taps.
> 
> From James Hoffmann's video, Perger's tool looks more like it will be a machine, more for cafe use?


 If you look at the original videos from late 2017 it was like a pin cushion, with about 60 pins in it. 
then everything went quiet. 
So maybe they decided that the kind of tool they were developing would be better for cafes? 
I have seen some distribution machines which vibrate the PF. But I'd worry this would cause excessive fines migration and potentially more cloggage of basket holes?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomHughes said:


> I have seen some distribution machines which vibrate the PF. But I'd worry this would cause excessive fines migration and potentially more cloggage of basket holes?


 The vibration tool doesn't do any harm, there was a study by Socratic where they sifted & reconstituted pucks, time changed but not extraction.

Here's the latest on the BH/Perger tool, amongst other stuff...


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> I wouldn't get one that isn't depth adjustable via two parts that screw together....i.e if it uses shims or can't be set after putting it on the portafilter. The reason is I use mine by screwing it down into the coffee and it works much better than using it at a set depth. Some coffees I screw it down 5 half turns, some 6, some 7. You can see the difference in the pour. I wouldn't get a cheap 3 or 4 slope one as they are mainly flat bases with little wedges cut into them and they won't logically do the job as well as a single wedge (chisel style). The Jack Leveller looks decent for a multi-wedge style one but works by setting the depth before use....it's also expensive.
> Mine's the scarlet espresso 58mm one but you can find 58.5mm versions too on amazon from other manufacturers. Ebay is full of them too.


What do you mean by "can't be set by after putting it on the portafilter"? I've got a Scarlet Tre and I can adjust it but not once it's on the of - is there some method I'm missing out on?

Also, it has three 'wings'. Are you suggesting the 'v' shape is better? If so, why?

Genuinely interested.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MWJB said:


> The vibration tool doesn't do any harm, there was a study by Socratic where they sifted & reconstituted pucks, time changed but not extraction.
> 
> Here's the latest on the BH/Perger tool, amongst other stuff...


 Interesting. I actually have a vibration platform around somewhere, so I may experiment with it.

It is a little frustrating when some of the distribution techniques are compared in isolation when in real life often a few are used. I.e. tapping and distribution tool.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

KingoftheHeath said:


> What do you mean by "can't be set by after putting it on the portafilter"? I've got a Scarlet Tre and I can adjust it but not once it's on the of - is there some method I'm missing out on?
> 
> Also, it has three 'wings'. Are you suggesting the 'v' shape is better? If so, why?
> 
> Genuinely interested.


 I've shoved a few pennies into the top end so the threads for the base just catch.

Socratic did some testing which showed the OCD lowered TDS compared to the BT Wedge distributor and tapping. Nobody really know why as nobody really knows how they work. The pullman blurb for their chisel type distributor describes how to set the depth and the process of trying to balance compression and distribution. The logic behind wedge shapes vs multiple fins is all about keeping compression to a minimum.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

@Rob1 Well you've convinced me to try a wedge one, any excuse to buy a new toy. Got the Scarlet Grande Duo in blue, looks very snazzy 

It's 58mm v 58.5 for my current one, but I doubt that will make any difference especially as my tamper is 58.55mm.


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## TheJezstarr (Feb 20, 2020)

longhardgrind said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079Y2TGLQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I got this one last week, the depth is adjustable. After decades of doing it the old fashioned way, I'm merrily surprised to discover that it actually works.


 This is also the one I am using. It is brilliant!


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

I wouldn't be without mine now, for £26.99 it has improved my shots no end


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## alex13p (Dec 17, 2019)

Dalerst said:


> I wouldn't be without mine now, for £26.99 it has improved my shots no end
> 
> View attachment 36700


 Yah, same here. Great little piece of kit. Find the weight of the tool is sufficient to tamp down.. few spins on top of the basket with this and a consistent shot every time


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

The one thing that I cannot get to work in any way is tapping the portafilter to settle the grounds. If I do that I always get a bad pour compared to when I don't. I grind, stir, level then tamp and my pours are good. If I tap the PF at all after the stirring step it ruins it.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

mctrials23 said:


> If I tap the PF at all after the stirring step it ruins it.


 I don't tap the portafilter, but then I do grind and stir in a separate cup and then transfer to the portafilter after..


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

I do it all, grind and stir in the niche cup, then stir in the portafilter, then give it a tap then tamp - Dont have a leveling tool but seem to get central consistent shots without


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> I wouldn't be without mine now, for £26.99 it has improved my shots no end
> 
> View attachment 36700


 I got this tool but I'm really not understanding how it can work. Minimum depth I can get it to is about 7/8mm, it just won't turn any more. You sure you're at 5mm (at deepest point I'm assuming this is)? Even at 5mm, an 18g dose of coffee is right at the brim of the portafilter, I don't see how there's room to spin it without crushing (tamping effectively) the grinds down as hard as you can. There's no way I can get 18g in the basket and have a few mm clearance so the Motta tool sits on the rim of the portafilter nicely and spins. I'm just spinning on top of the coffee, not touching the portafilter rim, and it's resulting in very uneven distribution.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> ...and it's resulting in very uneven distribution.


 Distribute in the basket before using the tool.

What basket are you using?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Distribute in the basket before using the tool.
> 
> What basket are you using?


 That defeats the object no? I am doing a bit of distribution before levelling, moving grounds over, knocking the portafilter to shake grounds around a bit. I've tried both baskets. With the dual walled it's impossible, I don't see how it can be done. It's better with the single wall but my problem there is I'm struggling to get pressure and extraction time.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> I got this tool but I'm really not understanding how it can work. Minimum depth I can get it to is about 7/8mm, it just won't turn any more. You sure you're at 5mm (at deepest point I'm assuming this is)? Even at 5mm, an 18g dose of coffee is right at the brim of the portafilter, I don't see how there's room to spin it without crushing (tamping effectively) the grinds down as hard as you can. There's no way I can get 18g in the basket and have a few mm clearance so the Motta tool sits on the rim of the portafilter nicely and spins. I'm just spinning on top of the coffee, not touching the portafilter rim, and it's resulting in very uneven distribution.


 I use a 17g dose on a number 8 grind setting for my current coffee (Medium Roast) in the filter and use the levelling tool as a tamp at the same time, I always manged to get the leveller down to the rim of the portafilter and then have no need to tamp.

On the lighter roasts I've had in the past, I've reduced the grind down to 3 and increased the dose to 18.5g and again used the motta to level and tamp.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> I use a 17g dose on a number 8 grind setting for my current coffee (Medium Roast) in the filter and use the levelling tool as a tamp at the same time, I always manged to get the leveller down to the rim of the portafilter and then have no need to tamp.
> 
> On the lighter roasts I've had in the past, I've reduced the grind down to 3 and increased the dose to 18.5g and again used the motta to level and tamp.


 Using the single wall basket? Or double wall?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> That defeats the object no? I am doing a bit of distribution before levelling, moving grounds over, knocking the portafilter to shake grounds around a bit. I've tried both baskets. With the dual walled it's impossible, I don't see how it can be done. It's better with the single wall but my problem there is I'm struggling to get pressure and extraction time.


 The tool is really only to smooth & flatten the upper areas, you still need to make sure the bottom of the basket is even. It's not really a "distribution tool", more of a grooming/tamping tool.

I this a Sage 54mm basket?


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Using the single wall basket? Or double wall?


 Using the single wall basket,

I've just double checked the measurements on both the blade that comes with the machine, and the motta leveller. there is only 1mm difference.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> The tool is really only to smooth & flatten the upper areas, you still need to make sure the bottom of the basket is even. It's not really a "distribution tool", more of a grooming/tamping tool.
> 
> I this a Sage 54mm basket?


 Aah I see. I think I'm doing it right then, knocking portafilter to distribute in basket (yes it's a Sage 54mm basket), then using tool to smooth out top. But given the tool is so far away from resting on top of portafilter I don't see how it can give an even tamp or surface. I use a tamper just to get it even again.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> Using the single wall basket,
> 
> I've just double checked the measurements on both the blade that comes with the machine, and the motta leveller. there is only 1mm difference.
> View attachment 37739
> View attachment 37738


 Thanks for that, at least that gives me peace of mind that our tool depth is the same, we're both at 8mm. Maybe 7.75mm. Thanks for clarification, I'll keep playing with single wall to see if I can get it to sit on portafilter. Maybe that'll help my main problem of not getting pressure/long enough extraction with the single wall.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> Aah I see. I think I'm doing it right then, knocking portafilter to distribute in basket (yes it's a Sage 54mm basket), then using tool to smooth out top. But given the tool is so far away from resting on top of portafilter I don't see how it can give an even tamp or surface. I use a tamper just to get it even again.


 Mine is a Scarlet tool off Amazon, it's set to 6.5mm max depth, mine is fine with 19 or even 20g in the basket (I use 18g normally). I haven't seen a need to tamp after grooming.

When you say you can't get proper pressure, can you explain what is wrong?


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Maybe that'll help my main problem of not getting pressure/long enough extraction with the single wall.


 That will be one of the reasons, you may not be grinding fine enough, or tamping down. what grind setting you on? and what is the roast? light, medium, dark?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Mine is a Scarlet tool off Amazon, it's set to 6.5mm max depth, mine is fine with 19 or even 20g in the basket (I use 18g normally). I haven't seen a need to tamp after grooming.
> 
> When you say you can't get proper pressure, can you explain what is wrong?


 The extraction process (from when I push the double shot button) is too short. The pressure needle barely moved initially, now it's going up to just short of the dark area on the dial (the 'expresso area'). I've tried grinding finer, using more grammes, tamping harder. Just can't get the right pressure or get to 25-30seconds. I'm at low pressure and always under 20 seconds, more like 15-18 seconds.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> The extraction process (from when I push the double shot button) is too short. The pressure needle barely moved initially, now it's going up to just short of the dark area on the dial (the 'expresso area'). I've tried grinding finer, using more grammes, tamping harder. Just can't get the right pressure or get to 25-30seconds. I'm at low pressure and always under 20 seconds, more like 15-18 seconds.


 Brew manually.

There's no right pressure.

There is only your target weight in the cup at a grind setting that makes it taste good.

If you have trouble getting 18g in the basket, try 17g. What is your target brew ratio?

Can you not grind any finer?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> That will be one of the reasons, you may not be grinding fine enough, or tamping down. what grind setting you on? and what is the roast? light, medium, dark?


 I have it on the lowest grind setting, I don't think it will go any finer. I also can't tamp much harder. As far asroast, I'm using Caravan atm, the Market blend and daily Blend. They just say 'espresso blend', not whether it's medium or dark. Before that I was using Stronghold from Origin. Neither on the bags or the website does it mention dark or medium oe light...how does one tell?

On the Caravan website under my coffee is says: 'It is worth noting that when brewing as an espresso this blend is extremely forgiving and works well with a variety of doses and extraction times. A good starting point when dialling in the market blend is 18.5g ground coffee extracted over 35 seconds to produce 38g of espresso.' The other one say 19g so maybe I need to make sure I have those exact doses. No way am I getting to 35 seconds though. Should I program if for that? I've never set a program time, I've just been going with whatever the default is.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Brew manually.
> 
> There's no right pressure.
> 
> ...


 Can't grind any finer, it's at 1. Ratio is 1:2 according to the Caravan website. They suggest 18.5g and 19g for the coffees I'm using with 38g out. I'll start weighing the output, I didn't think of that, thanks.

EDIT: When you say 'brew manually', what do you mean?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> On the Caravan website under my coffee is says: 'It is worth noting that when brewing as an espresso this blend is extremely forgiving and works well with a variety of doses and extraction times. A good starting point when dialling in the market blend is 18.5g ground coffee extracted over 35 seconds to produce 38g of espresso.' The other one say 19g so maybe I need to make sure I have those exact doses. No way am I getting to 35 seconds though. Should I program if for that? I've never set a program time, I've just been going with whatever the default is.


 You don't need to use their exact doses, nor shot times.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> You don't need to use their exact doses, nor shot times.


 Is that what you mean when you say 'brew manually'? Just mess about with it until you get the right ratio? Or you mean program the machine to run the water longer?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> Can't grind any finer, it's at 1. Ratio is 1:2 according to the Caravan website. They suggest 18.5g and 19g for the coffees I'm using with 38g out. I'll start weighing the output, I didn't think of that, thanks.


 Is there no internal 'range' adjustment on the grinder?


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Should I program if for that? I've never set a program time, I've just been going with whatever the default is.


 Do you weight anything during the process? i.e. grind in the filter, coffee in the cup after? I would try on manual settings.



CocoLoco said:


> I have it on the lowest grind setting, I don't think it will go any finer


 Have you looked at what the setting is on the internal burr of the machine? you can adjust them if you need to go finer.



CocoLoco said:


> A good starting point when dialling in the market blend is 18.5g ground coffee extracted over 35 seconds to produce 38g of espresso.


 Try doing this but make sure you get the leveller to touch the rim of the filter, will mean applying more pressure to tamp it down.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CocoLoco said:


> Is that what you mean when you say 'brew manually'? Just mess about with it until you get the right ratio? Or you mean program the machine to run the water longer?


 You aim for a ratio, then you hit it, every time, maybe going a tiny bit over (2 or 3g) in the cup, unless you can nail it.

You adjust grind (not tamp pressure) to make it taste nice at that ratio.

You start and stop the pump manually, don't use a pre programmed setting.

You sound like you are on the coarser end of grind (universally speaking, ignoring your ginder says "1"), so run a shot for 25s and tell us what you get, just to give us a 'square one'.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Is that what you mean when you say 'brew manually'? Just mess about with it until you get the right ratio? Or you mean program the machine to run the water longer?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

MWJB said:


> You aim for a ratio, then you hit it, every time, maybe going a tiny bit over (2 or 3g) in the cup, unless you can nail it.
> 
> You adjust grind (not tamp pressure) to make it taste nice at that ratio.
> 
> ...


 OK, great, getting some good ideas here. So I will watch that video and maybe adjust grind settings to alter the range of the grinder, that way '1' becomes finer?

Then I will stop using the pre-programmed shot time. I'll run the shots manually and time them myself. I'll have to look in the manual to see how to take it off timer.

Thanks for the advice, sorry to take up so much of your time, there's definitely things I can work on there!


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> Do you weight anything during the process? i.e. grind in the filter, coffee in the cup after? I would try on manual settings.
> 
> Have you looked at what the setting is on the internal burr of the machine? you can adjust them if you need to go finer.
> 
> Try doing this but make sure you get the leveller to touch the rim of the filter, will mean applying more pressure to tamp it down.


 Yes but just input beans and output grounds. Not output liquid. Which I will start doing to get the ratio right.

Internal burr, good point, there's a video above, I'll watch that and give that a go, that''ll make the '1' setting finer.

Thanks for all your advice!


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Yes but just input beans and output grounds. Not output liquid. Which I will start doing to get the ratio right.
> 
> Internal burr, good point, there's a video above, I'll watch that and give that a go, that''ll make the '1' setting finer.
> 
> Thanks for all your advice!


 My extraction just now, not the best as it started spitting towards the end, but it was 17g grind 40g in the cup over 30 seconds. I don't have a bottomless filter yet to see why it was spitting, but gives you an idea on what you should be looking at ish.






I will be starting a topic to see if anyone can shed some light on why it starts spitting 20 seconds in to the extraction.


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