# Am I overthinking extraction?



## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Good Afternoon,

I have had so much great advice on here and have come along a long way in a short space of time.

I video all my shots and have reached a point with my naked pf that I no longer get double tails nor spurts.

I seem to:

Get movement from one side to other

Or

Ring on outside that moves centrally.

I occassionally get the 'ideal' of it all starting at the same time.

My question is simple, do you experienced home baristas get a perfect shot every time? Is that what I should hope to acheive long term?

Or

Am I being OTT and should I just accept a little movement across the pf?

I need to know what I'm aiming for. Am I taking it a bit too far?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

What you should be asking is how do the shots taste ?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Thecatlinux said:


> What you should be asking is how do the shots taste ?


I keep telling myself that. The question is, could they be better...

Also I wonder if, having watched a slightly uneven extraction, I look for faults I otherwise wouldn't have


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

That said in my Rwanda Buf bean just had the nicest cup so far and that started one side moving across.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Goods pours do not necessarily mean good coffee , if you want more consistent pour try stirring the grind before tamping .

just remember taste is king


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

I have experimented with lots of techniques.

I have settled with WDT followed by Stockfleth


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I'm not qualified to answer your questions whatsoever really. I will say this though, Yes!, I still get duff shots after all these years. I have times when, with a new bean say, I can't get it right and end up using a spouted p/f, accept a pretty decent shot, and just step away from the equipment and the quest for perfection. I have found this attitude to be more useful, instinct seems to kick in and things settle down once more!


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## Wes78 (Apr 18, 2017)

Being an over thinker myself I did not need to read beyond the title to say 'probably, yes'

dont let it take away the enjoyment


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I'm not qualified to answer your questions whatsoever really. I will say this though, Yes!, I still get duff shots after all these years. I have times when, with a new bean say, I can't get it right and end up using a spouted p/f, accept a pretty decent shot, and just step away from the equipment and the quest for perfection. I have found this attitude to be more useful, instinct seems to kick in and things settle down once more!


This is so true. Sometimes the best thing to do is walk away and come back later.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I'm not qualified to answer your questions whatsoever really. I will say this though, Yes!, I still get duff shots after all these years. I have times when, with a new bean say, I can't get it right and end up using a spouted p/f, accept a pretty decent shot, and just step away from the equipment and the quest for perfection. I have found this attitude to be more useful, instinct seems to kick in and things settle down once more!


What Mildred said - I'm no expert by any means though I know a great shot when I taste one..... so yes only once every 3 or 4 do I get droplets appearing all the same time and with some beans never


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Thanks guys, having documented it through videos since I got the naked pf I know I have made progress.

That progress was fast to begin with, now it feels like I've hit a brick wall. I know even extraction is possible as I've done it. I can't work out how to get that consistency now as it doesnt feel as though I've done anything different between the two shots.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

igm45 said:


> Good Afternoon,
> 
> I have had so much great advice on here and have come along a long way in a short space of time.
> 
> ...


ian id just like to thank you for all the questions you are asking

being new myself its everything i need to know as well but dont quite know how to put it across

keep asking mate cause im learning off all the info your getting cheers


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

No worries mate, between us we'll get there I'm sure.

Might even be whilst we still have some hair left (best be quick in my case mind you)


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

igm45 said:


> No worries mate, between us we'll get there I'm sure.
> 
> Might even be whilst we still have some hair left (best be quick in my case mind you)


ditto that


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

igm45 said:


> Thanks guys, having documented it through videos since I got the naked pf I know I have made progress.
> 
> That progress was fast to begin with, now it feels like I've hit a brick wall. I know even extraction is possible as I've done it. I can't work out how to get that consistency now as it doesnt feel as though I've done anything different between the two shots.


Go back to spouts for a few shots, drink them , access the taste, is it good, do you enjoy it ? If so , then enjoy the coffee for what it is , coffee....

The road to perceived espresso perfection is a long and tortuous one , believe me i have been there .....

You can always be chasing , "i am sure it could be tastier" , or "people seem to be enjoying or getting more from their coffee than me" ... but at the end of the day , try and relax and enjoy it for what it is , a really lovely beverage that should form part of an enjoyable few minutes of the day .....


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

igm45 said:


> Thanks guys, having documented it through videos since I got the naked pf I know I have made progress.
> 
> That progress was fast to begin with, now it feels like I've hit a brick wall. I know even extraction is possible as I've done it. I can't work out how to get that consistency now as it doesnt feel as though I've done anything different between the two shots.


From reading your posts and seeing your vids it looks like you've really come on in leaps and bounds!

It reminds me of myself in a way, on a totally different subject though. I was grumbling a bit back at hitting a brick wall and how I would never improve and how I may as well pack up now! A couple of friends, Ian too, said that always happens and when you stop over thinking things everything will start working itself out for the better! They were right! It did! (The brick wall was metaphorical, at least I hope it was. Next time I get on a horse I really don't want to be hitting any wall, let alone a brick one)!


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MildredM said:


> From reading your posts and seeing your vids it looks like you've really come on in leaps and bounds!
> 
> It reminds me of myself in a way, on a totally different subject though. I was grumbling a bit back at hitting a brick wall and how I would never improve and how I may as well pack up now! A couple of friends, Ian too, said that always happens and when you stop over thinking things everything will start working itself out for the better! They were right! It did! (The brick wall was metaphorical, at least I hope it was. Next time I get on a horse I really don't want to be hitting any wall, let alone a brick one)!


I have come along loads yes, and it has made such a difference in the cup and has given me the freedom to experiment with brew ratio and cooling flushes.

That makes me wonder if the next step up will offer further enhancements.

Once again the advice is sound, I plan on taking a step back (for now) and enjoy the progress I've made.

10mm


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Go back to spouts for a few shots, drink them , access the taste, is it good, do you enjoy it ? If so , then enjoy the coffee for what it is , coffee....
> 
> The road to perceived espresso perfection is a long and tortuous one , believe me i have been there .....
> 
> You can always be chasing , "i am sure it could be tastier" , or "people seem to be enjoying or getting more from their coffee than me" ... but at the end of the day , try and relax and enjoy it for what it is , a really lovely beverage that should form part of an enjoyable few minutes of the day .....


This is so true. On these forums, we're so lucky as we can reach a level others can't.

But good tasting coffee isn't painting by numbers as I'm learning the hard way. It's try, taste, repeat - the visuals and the timings and ratios are guides, not goals.

I'm thinking of going back to spout for a month for this reason.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

totally agree mate it is so frustrating at times well most of the time


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

igm45 said:


> I have come along loads yes, and it has made such a difference in the cup and has given me the freedom to experiment with brew ratio and cooling flushes.
> 
> That makes me wonder if the next step up will offer further enhancements.
> 
> ...


good on ya mate chill out for a bit..


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

igm45 said:


> My question is simple, do you experienced home baristas get a perfect shot every time? Is that what I should hope to acheive long term?


No we don't and yes I aim for that 

Espresso is a kind of craft combined with art, you never know what the outcome will be exactly, but you can perfect the steps towards the optimum..and I bloody like it


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stanic said:


> No we don't and yes I aim for that
> 
> Espresso is a kind of craft combined with art, you never know what the outcome will be exactly, but you can perfect the steps towards the optimum..and I bloody like it


Listen hear Mr "Try doing two aeropresses at once with a backlog of drip, two flat whites and a hot chocolate while some 3 years old is demolishing the flowers and trying to grab a cookie from a glass jar :exit:"

You do not count as a home barista! I've seen your videos...

It's good to hear that even someone as capable as you gets it wrong sometimes..

I have loved the process so far, I do agree with others that I may be starting to obsess over the process, instead of enjoying the outcome.

Sigh, 3rd world problems right here


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

as boots and cat said, if it tastes good don't worry.

you'll tweak and improve over time with experience and at some point settle on your preferred method, occasionally trying the latest fad or tweak which may (or may not) improve things. sometimes you'll incorporate it into your routine.

just roll with it, it's part of the journey.

you'll know when you're in a good place as practice will make everything 2nd nature, you'll be pulling the shots fairly easily & consistently without really thinking about what you're doing.

until then enjoy the coffee along the way


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I have to say in my defence that 2 years ago I was barely capable to make anything resembling a good espresso and I've only started to froth milk the right way maybe 2 months ago!









Working at a café provides more training opportunities for sure but I also feel that being able to slowly and calmly obsess at home about details is a huge help towards perfection..this goes together with lot of study..but we all know that nothing is for free.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stanic said:


> I have to say in my defence that 2 years ago I was barely capable to make anything resembling a good espresso and I've only started to froth milk the right way maybe 2 months ago!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm just jealous!

I will get there in due course I'm sure.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

Stanic said:


> I have to say in my defence that 2 years ago I was barely capable to make anything resembling a good espresso and I've only started to froth milk the right way maybe 2 months ago!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


well there's hope for me then


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

igm45 said:


> My question is simple, do you experienced home baristas get a perfect shot every time?


No. It's all pursuit of the unattainable by the insatiable.


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