# Aldi version of a Sage?



## Boxerman33 (Jul 2, 2019)

just seen this, wonder what it's like? https://www.aldi.co.uk/espresso-maker-%26-integrated-grinder/p/099602327025400

View attachment Aldi Coffee.pdf


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Good spot. I bet it'll be an improvement on most of the Morphy Richards machines.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

20 bar pump! Must be good!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Thank you so much.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lake_m said:


> 20 bar pump! Must be good!


 I immediately looked up the address of my local Aldi, then noticed it was "pre order" only....


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Right. That's it. Selling the Niche - yes it has a grinder built in! - and the La Pavoni.

Do you think they sell non-pressurised baskets?


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Cynics!


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

lake_m said:


> 20 bar pump! Must be good!


 If these types of pump are good enough for the Mara and Minima, then why not for the Aldi?


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Aldi and Lidl do this a lot, brand name machines with the store's brand on. They've done Delonghis before now.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Nikko said:


> If these types of pump are good enough for the Mara and Minima, then why not for the Aldi?


I don't see that as a problem. It's however suboptimal if there's no way to control the pressure or regulate the pressure to around 9bar via an OPV or other means.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Looks like Sage copy. If it gets more people to experience better coffee can't be a bad thing . Weak link probable the grinder but at less than £300 it's cheaper than a lot of Bean To Cups. Not sure the resale value will be great though !


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Stevebee said:


> Looks like Sage copy. If it gets more people to experience better coffee can't be a bad thing . Weak link probable the grinder but at less than £300 it's cheaper than a lot of Bean To Cups. Not sure the resale value will be great though !


 Given the level of details that are the same, it's probably just a Sage with a new sticker on the front.

Looking closely, it's either a very good copy, or a trial release of a lower end machine from Sage themselves.


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## JJarvis (Dec 20, 2019)

Well, I never thought James Hoffmann would even bother to review something like this, but...


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## Skizz (Feb 10, 2020)

Be interesting to see if it's in any way usable with an OPV hacked in


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Skizz said:


> Be interesting to see if it's in any way usable with an OPV hacked in


 If you buy one, be interesting to see how you find it.


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## Skizz (Feb 10, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> If you buy one, be interesting to see how you find it.


 Not that brave. Sorry


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I think this summarizes everything ?


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

8m37s start there

John


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Don't think he liked it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

I think he liked it ?


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## jimi (Oct 23, 2019)

I think the term is you get what you pay for, I would say that you would be better off going for a sage.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

From that, I don't think you even get £299 worth of machine. I can only assume they spent the money on having a stainless steel case, rather than painted steel and using the extra money on an OPV.


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## coffeeguy66 (Sep 19, 2018)

This has P.I.D. temp control according to the spec ! Surprised me that's for sure. It does look very Sage like doesn't it ? Comes with a 3 year guarantee.

I've had customers of mine bring me faulty Sage Barista Express machines that are out of guarantee. The only firm in the UK that deals with Sage is Coffee Classics just outside Daventry in the Midlands. Fortunately I used to work with the MD of this company at another coffee firm and as I don't live too far away from his office/workshops I was able to drop the machine off for a new grinder at a reduced rate.

Might be worth a punt at £299 with a 3 year guarantee if you are confident with dialling in the settings and using it correctly.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

coffeeguy66 said:


> This has P.I.D. temp control according to the spec ! Surprised me that's for sure. It does look very Sage like doesn't it ? Comes with a 3 year guarantee.
> I've had customers of mine bring me faulty Sage Barista Express machines that are out of guarantee. The only firm in the UK that deals with Sage is Coffee Classics just outside Daventry in the Midlands. Fortunately I used to work with the MD of this company at another coffee firm and as I don't live too far away from his office/workshops I was able to drop the machine off for a new grinder at a reduced rate.
> Might be worth a punt at £299 with a 3 year guarantee if you are confident with dialling in the settings and using it correctly.


You can have a PID, but if the design of the machine is not right, or the PID temperature is set to high or low, or the parameters are incorrect, there's no magic which can fix it.

The grinder seems rubbish too. Seems impossible to dial in.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The grinder seems rubbish too. Seems impossible to dial in.


 Impossible to dial in to the pressure on the gauge (without confirmation it's accurate), on a pre-programmed button, to achieve a very specific ratio range...so 'normal' then (the Sage forum here is rife with the same issues with the BE).

Why is he grinding into the PF?

It might well be crap, it is suspiciously cheap, but his gear reviews often descend into petulance.

You can make espresso with a Porlex, so how crap would that grinder really have to be.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> You can make espresso with a Porlex, so how crap would that grinder really have to be.


He adjusted two notches and he got wildly different results.


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> He adjusted two notches and he got wildly different results.


 I was surprised to see that the move chocked up the machine. It seems capable of fine ground but not consistent at all.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> He adjusted two notches and he got wildly different results.


 He didn't just adjust 2 notches, he adjusted 2 notches and changed ratio massively, with no obvious distribution/grooming before putting the grinds in the basket.

It's not a commercial machine, why expect it to behave like one.

Like I said, it's possible that it is really bad, but this isn't a good demonstration of that.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

A tester, reviewer, designers perspective:

I think as the Coffee machine market develops, we are going to see more and more "lookalikes" and "almost likes", where people hope it's going to work great. Some punters are going to drop money on said machines because of "sales reviews" and shill reviews without any integrity or the comments of people who have used them for half a day. It's a lucrative market and there are manufacturers who will try to exploit what they see as easy pickings. People love to believe they will get something for nothing...

They will choose a price point, £299/£399, for the aspirational newbies this seems like sufficient money. They will build a machine for next to nothing e.g. something selling for £299 needs to cost less than £100 to build. After this the following is added, factory profit, import duty, Tax, Retailer profit (even shifted in large quantities). By definition it must be manufactured in China, the parts must be clone parts with the associated quality that goes with them.

Now it's not really about longevity or warranty. Trabants are still going and I am sure some Polski Fiats etc.. The trouble is they are not fun, or pleasant to drive and don't give a good ride. They are not reliable but can easily be fixed, *if you can get parts. *These coffee machines are a bit like that, Aldi are relying on most people junking them after a few years and never taking up the warranty, those that do will simply get a refund. After 3 years, good luck finding parts to fit. Everything about the grinder is likely to be substandard and it seems James Hoffman couldn't get a good coffee out of it. The retailers selling it don't really care about coffee, or the performance you will get from the machine (again I don't mean reliability).

*The worst thing we can do is actually buy these machines* that don't come from traditional retailers where they can be properly supported as part of a product line. I'm all for Generic parts but not a machine full of maintenance parts you really can't get....that's just built in obsolescence, something I hate. Although Sage must have better quality control I feel the same way about their machines and over the years my concerns seem to be proven right with repairs limited to a single retailer and parts not available to customers. Yet still they get rewarded by customers buying them and recommendations on coffee forums.

I review/test for months, feedback to manufacturers on all sorts of small issues, especially where I can deal with the owners of companies, it's much harder dealing with corporates! I'm currently working on the Lelit Elizabeth, the one I have isn't the same as the production model (because that's often not what I do), lots of little things being discussed, software being updated and tweaked, all to improve performance, improve functionality. Temperature testing in a real use environment over 7 days tends to allow one to focus on various control aspects and software decisions. What I test today will be what's released in future and it will be better for having been properly tested. MaraX was 10+ months on from prototype, but it was worth it. I know I can't make all machines I test perfect but I can try to make them as good as they can be. These cheap machines never went through anything like that. They saw, they copied, they assumed......

P.S. I'd be wary of videos that are done to show how bad something is....I personally wouldn't want to waste my time making, producing, editing etc...a video for a crap product. Had I used something like that for a week or two (he did do that didn't he?), I would have made the decision to not waste any more of my time on it. I certainly wouldn't have bothered to put up a video. I almost didn't bother with the coffee distributor, but that was more generic in that I'm not sure these grooming tools really work as we hope.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> He didn't just adjust 2 notches, he adjusted 2 notches and changed ratio massively, with no obvious distribution/grooming before putting the grinds in the basket.
> 
> It's not a commercial machine, why expect it to behave like one.
> 
> Like I said, it's possible that it is really bad, but this isn't a good demonstration of that.


 Yeah but it still made me laugh


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

MWJB said:


> He didn't just adjust 2 notches, he adjusted 2 notches and changed ratio massively, with no obvious distribution/grooming before putting the grinds in the basket.
> 
> It's not a commercial machine, why expect it to behave like one.
> 
> Like I said, it's possible that it is really bad, but this isn't a good demonstration of that.


He tested it like a user would use it...

If it can't work under such conditions, then it is just a badly designed...thing.

No one who buy this will grind into a separate vessel, give it a whisk, pour it into the pf, and either WDT the hell out of it or knock it on the side, It's not gonna happen. People who are unfortunate enough to get this are gonna grind into the pf and tamp it and pull a shot, this is a very realistic scenario of what would happen, it might work better with oily tin can beans from illy but I truly doubt it.

Sure he should just have either grinded finer or updosed and obviously not both, but the way it reacts I doubt it would have made much difference.

And yes he isn't the most objective person in the industry, but he is far from the worst. And it was still funny.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

malling said:


> He tested it like a user would use it...
> 
> If it can't work under such conditions, then it is just a badly designed...thing.
> 
> ...


 You could say that about any coffee making device, even simple ones.

How does the Aldi model compare the the Sage & De Longhi he mentioned, in terms of intervention? Read the Sage forum & the endless posts from BE users who struggle.

Surely, if he could have made a better cup, he could have passed on some tips? He didn't mind doing that with the Wilfa auto filter brewer. Then folk who were unfortunate enough to fall for the Aldi machine might possibly get at least something drinkable out of it (there's no evidence they wanted a 1:2-2.5 shot at the time they bought it). It still might not be possible, but a handful of shots is not giving it a fair crack.

He's great at discussing coffee in the broader context.

I don't know why whisking grounds & WDT are mentioned here.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> *The worst thing we can do is actually buy these machines* that don't come from traditional retailers where they can be properly supported as part of a product line. I'm all for Generic parts but not a machine full of maintenance parts you really can't get....that's just built in obsolescence, something I hate.


 Like Indiegogo?


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## Flanners (Mar 21, 2011)

I have had my Sage DTP for 4years+ it's been great, only now in lockdown am I starting to make more coffee and needlessly I have got the bug to buy another machine, criticism of Sage yep fair play but mine has been faultless, the Gaggia Classic before it was a PoS, others love them, there lies the issue. Some have good experiences and bad with both cheap and expensive; sometimes on forums people lose sight of realistic expectations most consumers have and that not everyone wants to spend vast amounts of cash on minimal gain, seems akin to the Hi-Fi world or adopt OCD behaviour measuring and weighing, they just want to have a cup of coffee. That said the Aldi machine doesn't look that great and with Sage DTP for £240 at the moment that has to be a better contender.


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