# V60 filter types



## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

A new pack of Dutch filters from Amazon that look different to others I've had, I haven't noticed this 'V60' imprint before - are these the usual Dutch type?

I'm a bit confused because the Dutch filters are usually described as thicker than the Japanese ones, these look thinner to me. A few test pours comparing this to the Japanese tabless type give similar drain times of 41s +/- 1s for 400g of water, but despite looking thinner actual brew times so far seem if anything to be a bit longer. Maybe the paper looks thinner but is a finer weave so flow is more restricted?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Yes. Those are the Dutch filters. Note the "H" instead of a "W" on the last letter of the code. And yes the weave is finer meaning longer brew times, so if you are used to the normal papers then you will need to adapt a little.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

Thanks for that. In the past I've had a tabbed type without the imprint which I think must have been Japanese. I think the paper must have been similar to the non tabbed Japanese type as I don't remember noticing such a difference before.

Along with the new filters I'm also dialling in a new Feldgrind so it's been a little confusing. Despite grinding courser the brew times were still around a minute longer than I was aiming for, ending up at around 4m15s+30s (for 19/330g). The brews have been so good though so the timing can't be far off, for some reason the extra time doesn't seem to be a problem at all.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

slamm said:


> Despite grinding courser the brew times were still around a minute longer than I was aiming for, ending up at around 4m15s+30s (for 19/330g). The brews have been so good though so the timing can't be far off, for some reason the extra time doesn't seem to be a problem at all.


4:00 may not be 'extra time', could well be a normal brew time for those weights with a 30sec bloom.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

MWJB said:


> 4:00 may not be 'extra time', could well be a normal brew time for those weights with a 30sec bloom.


I think you must be right. The time I was aiming for was around 3m based on previous brews where I had detectected overextraction 15-30s past that, but since then a few things have changed and it's becoming clear they are affecting things a bit more than expected. Most likely I hadn't compensated enough for the lower water temperature with the Buono kettle, although it gets preheated I think it must be this that allows the longer tbt to give such good results with these filters. Combined with the better grind everything just keeps going right at the moment!


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@slamm - where are you setting your feldgrind with the dutch filters?

I'm running with (roughly) the same setup, albeit larger brews, so interested to see where you've found works best.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

adz313 said:


> @slamm - where are you setting your feldgrind with the dutch filters?


So far I've had the best results at around 1.10 with lighter roasts, for tbts around 4m15s (19/330g). Tried to get closer to 4m as suggested by MWJB with a setting of 1.12 but with a darker roast and that came in at 3m10s, so that was a bit course for those beans. Chopping and changing beans doesn't exactly help pin down the ideal setting but I think I'll be going for 1.11 next time with a lighter roast.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

slamm said:


> So far I've had the best results at around 1.10 with lighter roasts, for tbts around 4m15s (19/330g). Tried to get closer to 4m as suggested by MWJB with a setting of 1.12 but with a darker roast and that came in at 3m10s, so that was a bit course for those beans. Chopping and changing beans doesn't exactly help pin down the ideal setting but I think I'll be going for 1.11 next time with a lighter roast.


So long as you're not going really dark (I'd personally stick to Aeropress & French press with really dark beans), you shouldn't need to change grind from bean to bean much. The grind setting is just a means to an end, use it to steer brew time. At that setting it looks like you are adding all the water in one go after the bloom, I couldn't get good consistency doing that with a Feldgrind. Try going coarser & blooming with 30g, then break up the remaining 300g with 3 pours of 100 every 50sec, 4 pours of 75 every 40sec, or 6 pours of 50g every 30sec.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

MWJB said:


> At that setting it looks like you are adding all the water in one go after the bloom, I couldn't get good consistency doing that with a Feldgrind. Try going coarser & blooming with 30g, then break up the remaining 300g with 3 pours of 100 every 50sec, 4 pours of 75 every 40sec, or 6 pours of 50g every 30sec.


Interesting, many thanks MWJB for your input. The two 4m+ tbts were with 30g/30s bloom/stir then 100g every 30s (ie ending pour at ~1m40s). I'll try upping the courseness and extend the time between pours to 50s.


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## adz313 (Apr 13, 2016)

@slamm @MWJB - thanks both for the input.

tried your weights last night (pouring per MWJB's suggestion) and struggling to get the times down. Currently sat at about 2.2 on the feld.

it was with a fairly light roasted decaf.

suspect i need to go coarser still...


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

adz313 said:


> tried your weights last night (pouring per MWJB's suggestion) and struggling to get the times down. Currently sat at about 2.2 on the feld.


Same here, tbt was up a bit with the 50s pour intervals at 4m20s. Same weights (different beans but similar light roast), coarser grind at 1.12 was not enough to compensate for the extended intervals so will try around 2.0 next time. Still enjoyable enough but think it was getting close to over-extracted.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Try going coarser & blooming with 30g, then break up the remaining 300g with 3 pours of 100 every 50sec


 @MWJB could you elaborate a bit on the benefits of extending the pour interval from 30 to 50s - is it perhaps to increase the drain effect to get the grounds off the sides of the filter and into the bed? Trying to get my head around the mechanics of the ideal pour..


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

There is no ideal pour as such. You are looking at a ball-park brew time, the weight & frequency of pours is balanced against your grind setting.

Let's say you are looking at an average (not always 3:00 on the nose) 3:00 brew time, with 30sec boom - 2 pours of 100g every 50sec is effectively the same as 3 pours of 67g every 40 sec, or 4 pours of 50g every 30sec, or 8 pours of 25g every 15sec - the real difference is that the grind gets progressively coarser to accommodate the more pulses.

Adding 200g in 2 pours within 60 sec is about 3g per sec, you could do that in a single pour, the fact you are using 2 pours is almost irrelevant. If you get used to a regular regime, or the variables in pulse & spacing, you can tweak brews from one to the next without constantly changing your grind (if you have a setting you know works for 90% of coffees). Of course, you can always change your grind too, if you like.

The greater the weight of water sitting on the bed (at a constant grind) the faster it will drain, so the pulsing just slows the overall flow rate at a given grind.

Personally I prefer a few pours with V60 & Chemex as this gives me consistency. Fewer pours with the Kalita Wave works just as well, genuine Melitta doesn't seem to care what you do.

You can also make bigger brews at the same ratio & grind to extract more, or smaller brews (again same ratio & grind) to extract less. I have found that by blooming then pouring 25g every 15 sec I can pretty predictably steer extraction, increasing from say 9:150, 12:200, 15:250, 18:300, all at coarser end of usable grind.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

MWJB said:


> You can also make bigger brews at the same ratio & grind to extract more, or smaller brews (again same ratio & grind) to extract less. I have found that by blooming then pouring 25g every 15 sec I can pretty predictably steer extraction, increasing from say 9:150, 12:200, 15:250, 18:300, all at coarser end of usable grind.


I think I can see how the mechanics of frequent smaller pours could provide a more stable brewing environment. I imagine the temperature of the brew mass would be more stable instead of bouncing up and down with longer heavier pours, making for more consistent results across different brew sizes. I think I'll have to try that, thanks.



MWJB said:


> genuine Melitta doesn't seem to care what you do.


That's good to hear as I am going to start using my dear old family heirloom Melitta (70s or 80s brown plastic!) for larger brews. I was going to go for a nice shiney metal Kalita Wave 185 but that's on hold for a bit while I resurrect the Melitta. I've got some new 'Aroma zones' filters for it, are they any good?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Don't know, my Melitta filters are still in the box  I mainly use the white Filtropa filter papers.


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