# Newbie wanting to buy kit tomorrow 7th April



## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

Hi there.

I love coffee but have discovered how little I know about it after spending a few hours on this forum.

I want to replace my bean to cup machine tomorrow with an espresso machine with steam wand and a grinder and anything that might be needed.

I live up in Preston, Lancashire and plan on driving down to my espresso in Coventry to have a look for 9am (opening time) tomorrow. Alternatively I could go down further to Bella Barista if they are open?

My research is looking like a Rancilio Silva with a Rocky Grinder but hs is only as I have seen positive things. Does anyone have any advice or guidance for a newbie and where I should start?

My bean to cup machine has a steam wand but frankly it's useless. I want something that can steam almost instantly when I ask it too.

I hope to hear from some of you soon.

Regards,

Dan


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I would head to Bella barista if i were you. Myespresso has a terrible aftersales record if experiences on here are anything to go by. I haven't used him myself, but wouldn't dare to after what he's done to others.

On the other hand, I've also never used Bella, but there's been plenty of good said about them here and not much bad, if anything.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

The Rancilio Silvia is a good machine, but can't steam instantly as its a single boiler.

You would need a heat exchanger (HX) or dual boiler machine to be able to steam on demand. This isn't to say that the silvia isn't useable, just that it can only do one thing at a time.

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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

Monkey_Devil said:


> I would head to Bella barista if i were you. Myespresso has a terrible aftersales record if experiences on here are anything to go by. I haven't used him myself, but wouldn't dare to after what he's done to others.
> 
> On the other hand, I've also never used Bella, but there's been plenty of good said about them here and not much bad, if anything.


Thanks for the tip. My Initial thought was Bella but it's quite a long way south and the machines appear to be very high end in terms of price.


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks funina.

Having just read more reviews on the Rancilio it appears it requires a lot of work and I am after something that is easy to master quickly, hence why my existing machine is bean to cup. That said I have got time but my wife will shout if she cannot knock out a coffee reasonably quickly. Any recommendations?


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Might be worth giving yourself more time to choose, to avoid getting upgraditis too soon.

Fracino machines are worth checking out, as they offer high end features at a lower cost than most other brands. Whether you want dual boiler or HX will require some research.

Ps thanks for deleting my duplicate post funinacup, my phone messed up.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Fracino are based in Birmingham if you fancy a trip there. Their Piccino machine is a double boiler machine so will give you steam on demand and is very reasonably priced.

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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

It's worth noting that with any grinder and machine combination there will be an element of learning, and unless you're familiar with the process you may struggle to replicate the shots you have been getting without a little patience and in many cases training too.

You may wish to set your wife expectations about ease of use earlier rather than later...


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

jimbow said:


> Fracino are based in Birmingham if you fancy a trip there. Their Piccino machine is a double boiler machine so will give you steam on demand and is very reasonably priced.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk


Thanks. Question is, will they be open tomorrow?


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

Your right monkey devil. I spent £500 on my gaggia brera and got the death stare when I told her what I was about to do. Fortunately I am allowed a toy every 12 months. I also miss my coffee as my brera has been out of action now for 2 weeks. Had to drink tea!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Dandh said:


> ...my wife will shout if she cannot knock out a coffee reasonably quickly.


Red alert. See Glenn's comment above. It is not possible to knock out a good espresso without a lot of learning and practise. Months. If it's your toy, not hers, then sounds like she won't be undertaking such learning. She is going to shout. Sounds like a bean-to-cup suits your situation.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

For the price, there are about 100 better grinders than the rocky. Overpriced and overhyped in my honest opinion.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

It's unlikely that Fracino will be open tomorrow as they are machine producers not a retailer. Best checking with them before you head off.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

It sounds like you're patient enough to take the time with a proper machine and learn how to do it properly, but I'd be a bit concerned that if your wife wants something simple she's going to be disappointed is there any way that you can keep the bean to cup for her to use?

If you have £800 ish to spend I'd go with a baratza vario grinder and either a fracino piccino or nueva simonelli Oscar.

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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Dan, you are probably not getting the positive answers that you were hoping for when you started this thread, but I can assure you that all the advice that you have been given has been made with the best of intentions. As you said - you realise that there is a lot to learn. Going out and spending even a grand cannot guarantee you good espresso. It's going to take a considerable time before your espresso beats what you have been used to with your bean to cup. Just think of all the variables that you have to juggle and that will be self evident. But, if you are so inclined, it can be one of the most fascinating and enjoyable journeys that you will ever undertake. I gather that what you are proposing to spend is essentially 'blow money', but even so, unless you are prepared to throw a lot of it away, I would advise you to back off a while until you have done some thorough research. Otherwise you'll just end up selling your immediate purchases at a considerable loss in a few months time. Sure, I could give you advice on how I would spend a grand, but this is a personal purchase and only you can decide what is appropriate for you. You've already had some worthwhile suggestions, but it would still be common sense to back off from immediate purchases. In your position I would be thinking very carefully about what I wanted, throwing the ideas into the forum, and waiting to see what everyone makes of them.

And welcome to the forum, by the way!

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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

vintagecigarman said:


> Dan, you are probably not getting the positive answers that you were hoping for when you started this thread, but I can assure you that all the advice that you have been given has been made with the best of intentions. As you said - you realise that there is a lot to learn. Going out and spending even a grand cannot guarantee you good espresso. It's going to take a considerable time before your espresso beats what you have been used to with your bean to cup. Just think of all the variables that you have to juggle and that will be self evident. But, if you are so inclined, it can be one of the most fascinating and enjoyable journeys that you will ever undertake. I gather that what you are proposing to spend is essentially 'blow money', but even so, unless you are prepared to throw a lot of it away, I would advise you to back off a while until you have done some thorough research. Otherwise you'll just end up selling your immediate purchases at a considerable loss in a few months time. Sure, I could give you advice on how I would spend a grand, but this is a personal purchase and only you can decide what is appropriate for you. You've already had some worthwhile suggestions, but it would still be common sense to back off from immediate purchases. In your position I would be thinking very carefully about what I wanted, throwing the ideas into the forum, and waiting to see what everyone makes of them.
> 
> And welcome to the forum, by the way!
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


Hello. Thank you for taking the time to offer your advice. I don't have to spend a grand, infact I would be delighted to get something for £500 ish. I do believe in getting the best you can afford which should reduce the need to upgrade in the immediate future. I have written off getting anything this weekend, I have just been too busy with work and haven't been able to research enough. This is a shame as if I could have purchased tomorrow I would have had two days of learning.

I will be researching some more. I had thought about the easy option which would have been a Jura ENA 9 bean to cup machine but I am intrigued by the manual option....I like a challenge.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

OK. I'm going to ignore the advice that I gave in the last post! For around £500 you can get a Classic an Iberital MC2 and a collection of the necessary gizmos (basket, scales etc).

You then have the kit to make great coffee - all you need to do is learn how to use it to its best! Quite how your wife will fit into the equation I don't know! I may be wrong - but you may be able to get a basket for the Classic that takes ESE pods, so she won't have to grind, tamp etc.

And then, when you are ready to upgrade, you'll still get a good price for the kit.

But learning to use it in a couple of days is very optimistic! (Though a couple of training sessions from a profile like Glenn might help a lot.)

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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

That's a super suggestion about the pods.

Aromo Coffee does some great ESE pods that will fit the bill nicely

They work in a Gaggia Classic as I have been trying some whilst reviewing them (favourably I might add!)

In fact, without hijacking the thread, I still have a number left that I'd be happy to pass on. You will need the adaptor which is similar to a single basket to get the best out of these.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

the Gaggia classic is said to be as good as the saliva at half the price,Amazon sell them for £200 or you can buy a returned one from them for around £150 but only a 90 day warranty,what drinks are you wanting to make?

the Classic comes with the baskets for pods already so your wife could use that,all you need to do it buy a non pressureised basket for around £7 and you can then use your fresh ground beans,the pod baskets can be used for both but are not the easiest to use with fresh grounds,the steam will steam enough for 2 drinks at a time but only after waiting a min after pulling a shot,if you want really good microfoam though it will take a lot of learning , most swap the wand to the silvia wand which is said to make microfoam easier,still hard work tho,maybe take a trip to try one out first as going from a bean to cup to a classic/silvia will be a shock!


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I think the solution here lies in what you want out of these new purchases, and coffee in general. If you just want a fairly decent cup and can leave it there (fair enough), without much interest in the process or theory, then a bean to cup is best suited. If however you want to approach this as a new hobby then go down the manual route. Most of my friends and family think it is ludicrous to spend so much time and money on coffee, but they're just viewing it as a functional beverage that is an alternative to a cup of tea. I see it as no different to learning any other craft, or taking up a pastime.

There is lots of fun to be had and interesting stuff to learn - how in depth you go is up to you. Are you only interested in espresso based drinks? If not you could get all the gear you need to make a fantastic brewed coffee for under £100, and it'll all remain useful even if you upgrade later.

If it is espresso, then cigarmans suggestion is a good starter set up - just be prepared for a lot of nasty tasting coffee along the way as you get to grips with it and perhaps buy a jar of Nescafé for your wife.


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

I like the idea of a pod basket for the mrs but don't like the idea of the gaggia as the steam wand isn't good enough or fast enough. I would rather pay more to have a better steam wand maybe a dual boiler than be in the position I am now with my gaggia bean to cup with single boiler and steam wand.

Can these pod basketsbe fitted to fracino machines? Nearly all of the coffee I will be drinking will be milk based.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Yes, the Fracino machine can take a pod basket. Good machine for the money.

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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Whilst they can indeed take ESE pods, I believe Fracino machines must be specially adapted to do this. Fracino sell a kit which, from the photographs, looks like a replacement dispersion block and shower screen with a different filter basket. Whilst this kit would be easy to apply, it is not something you would be able to switch back and forth from (at least not while the machine is on and at operating temperature!!) I could be wrong on this, and you may be able to buy a pod basket that will work with the standard Fracino group but I think the Gaggia machines are one of the few makes of machine that allow one to swap between pods and grounds simply by changing the filter basket.

It is a shame as I think the suggestion of ESE pods is a very good one. It would provide the best of both worlds - a simple, straightforward pod option for your wife and the ability to learn and produce amazing results with freshly ground coffee for yourself.

Is there any option to keep the Bean to cup machine for your wife to use and as a backup whist you learn on the new machine? Alternatively you could keep the bean to cup machine and look at manual brewed coffee options e.g. Aeropress, V60, Wave, Chemex, etc.


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

There isn't a way I can keep both as I haven't the space. Anyway, I have negotiated with the wife and she is happy to have her caffatiere for the time being so the search starts now.


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

Slight change of plan. I have purchased Southpaws Gaggia Classic with upgraded steam wand. This should hopefully be with me by Friday so I can get stuck in next weekend. I purchased this following the advice I have been given. It seems like a popular machine and if people such as Glenn who teach people about coffee then it strikes me that it will be plenty good enough for me. I am going to invest in a decent grinder though which will prevent me having to purchase another in the future.


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## howardknibbs (Apr 16, 2012)

How are you getting on with the Classic?


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## Dandh (Apr 6, 2012)

howardknibbs said:


> How are you getting on with the Classic?


Classic is a much better machine than my previous gaggia brera. Steam is powerful and is ready a lot quicker. Just sold the grinder i purchased as I haven't got the time to be able to practice my skills so moving to pods.

For the money though, I can see why these machines are so popular.


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