# which filter machine?



## Tbay1 (Oct 21, 2017)

Folks,

Looking to buy a Filter coffee machine for my house.

Was looking at Marco Bru F45 or Bravilor Bonamat Novo 2, should I be looking elsewhere/other machines?

Mike


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

A brazen brewer or moccamastet perhaps.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm not a brewed fan but I did have a 'Brazen Brewer' for a while & it was excellent.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

most people end up buying the brazen if batch brewing.

question is how much are you making in 1 go, and what's driving you down the batch brewing route.

if you're making enough for 1-3 people you might want to consider something different like a Chemex


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Have a look at the Technivorm range: They go from 4 cup up to 12 cup +/- thermos jugs.

Spares are easy to source.


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## Tbay1 (Oct 21, 2017)

Phobic said:


> most people end up buying the brazen if batch brewing.
> 
> question is how much are you making in 1 go, and what's driving you down the batch brewing route.
> 
> if you're making enough for 1-3 people you might want to consider something different like a Chemex


Enough for 2 people.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tbay1 said:


> Enough for 2 people.


Chemex wil be a different brew to a Brazen ...if you want to add milk etc a Chemex might be too delicate a coffee to do this , plus you need a pouring kettle , scales , and some skills .

Brazen hold 1 litre i think

https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/behmor-brazen-plus


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## Tbay1 (Oct 21, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Brazen hold 1 litre i think
> 
> https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/behmor-brazen-plus


Looks cool.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tbay1 said:


> Looks cool.


https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24813&p=317335#post317335


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I like things different to the norm....

http://www.jurang.co.uk/shop/wilfa-precision/584-wilfa-svart-classic-plus.html

I have a different model to this but love the Scandinavian looks and of course 99% of them drink brewed


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I like things different to the norm....
> 
> http://www.jurang.co.uk/shop/wilfa-precision/584-wilfa-svart-classic-plus.html
> 
> I have a different model to this but love the Scandinavian looks and of course 99% of them drink brewed


I was eyeing this up yesterday (Square Mike stock them now) for when we have a few people here. Looks good to me.


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## Tbay1 (Oct 21, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I like things different to the norm....
> 
> http://www.jurang.co.uk/shop/wilfa-precision/584-wilfa-svart-classic-plus.html
> 
> I have a different model to this but love the Scandinavian looks and of course 99% of them drink brewed


very nice


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## Tbay1 (Oct 21, 2017)

These look good, are they any use?

https://www.hughes.co.uk/product/small-appliances/coffee/coffee-makers/kitchenaid/5kcm0402bob?AIDO=AFFILIATE&awc=3133_1509562039_6a09f7cc1f241486abf0de1bdb200e8e


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Tbay1 said:


> These look good, are they any use?
> 
> https://www.hughes.co.uk/product/small-appliances/coffee/coffee-makers/kitchenaid/5kcm0402bob?AIDO=AFFILIATE&awc=3133_1509562039_6a09f7cc1f241486abf0de1bdb200e8e


 Nope but if thee above said something i would take their advice


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## SheepAreOnFire1903 (Jul 8, 2017)

Wilfa Precision looks interesting.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> A brazen brewer or moccamastet perhaps.


I own both and they are similar in terms of output / in the cup.

Both have a 1.25L thermos jug so no hotplates to worry about stewing your coffee; are capable easily of 500ml brews (you can go slightly smaller on the Moccamaster). Brazen has a round flat bed filter, can adjust the brew temp, set to timer start, set pre infusion time, coffee in the thermos jug still warm after at least 3 hours, takes 5 minutes before the beep to tell you when done. Kalita 185 filters are the ones I use with this for up to about 900ml in then swap to the gold filter basket as kalita filters not quite big enough (Brazen £150 from HasBean)

MM has a std No4 filter cone so a more v shaped coffee bed, water comes through quite quickly and can disturb the coffee bed if machine not completely level leading to a bit of a central dip in the grounds post brew (although very little impact on taste). Quicker to brew than the Brazen and has nothing more than an on switch so simple to operate.(Kbgt 741 t being thermos is about £10 dearer than hotplate / glass version but much better as keeps coffee warm and drinkable for at least 3.5 to 4 hours if sealed up well at stopper. Bella Barista just over £200 or amazon for £10 cheaper although longer warranty with BB)

Neither are cheap brewers however both SCAA approved as quality brewers if this is important to you, both not being far off the price you would pay for either the marco listed or the bravilor.

Genuinely I swap between them, the differences are so subtle that with most beans very little if any difference, would say if you needed to change brew temps for say a lighter bean to get the most out then the Brazen wins hands down; for fuss free, the MM (models in my signature)

Hope of help

John


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I recently got a second hand Moccamaster for pretty much free, which is extremely popular here in Scandinavia. Lots of spares available, and you can pretty much change every part yourself. Quite simple, nice looking design and very solid construction. It seems like though to make the best coffee and to get a flat bed in the end you need to do a bit fiddling (i.e. stirring during brew) as the shower head doesn't cover the coffee bed completely, but other than that it seems like a rock solid machine that'll just run forever if you take good care of it. Also I think it wouldn't be suitable to make

Wilfa seems to be quite similar to Moccamaster's design with a few tweaks.

Behmor has a lot more features but I think it's so ugly. If you want something with a lot of bells and whistles you can also wait for the upcoming Sage Precision Brewer.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Chemex wil be a different brew to a Brazen ...if you want to add milk etc a Chemex might be too delicate a coffee to do this , plus you need a pouring kettle , scales , and some skills .
> 
> Brazen hold 1 litre i think
> 
> https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/behmor-brazen-plus


yes more equipment needed, however would be cheaper and smaller.

if you're just making 2 cups then you could look at lots of pour over options instead, v60, ccd, chemex, etc

i personally find my brazen overkill for making 2 cups!


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Very close to buying a moccamaster with the thermal carafe as it would really suit me well I think. Quick question, does it brew half a batch as well as a whole one?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

the_partisan said:


> I recently got a second hand Moccamaster...nice looking design and very solid construction.
> 
> Behmor has a lot more features but I think it's so ugly. If you want something with a lot of bells and whistles you can also wait for the upcoming Sage Precision Brewer.


it's always interesting how personal this is. I think the Behmor looks good it puts me in mind of a little rocket, whereas the moccamaster - nope not for me.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

it is very personal yes.

I bought the brazen as my research told me it's the better brewer, but I actually prefer the looks of the moccamaster, think it's a bit retro


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

GingerBen said:


> Very close to buying a moccamaster with the thermal carafe as it would really suit me well I think. Quick question, does it brew half a batch as well as a whole one?


Yes, I always brew 500ml at a time, since I like having it fresh. Make sure though to get the filter holder where you can restrict flow for doing half brews, otherwise the water will flow too fast and/or you'll have to grind quite fine and extraction might be more uneven. Also using the technique shown here produces great results (which is actually very very similar to Rao's V60 technique..):


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> Yes, I always brew 500ml at a time, since I like having it fresh. Make sure though to get the filter holder where you can restrict flow for doing half brews, otherwise the water will flow too fast and/or you'll have to grind quite fine and extraction might be more uneven. Also using the technique shown here produces great results (which is actually very very similar to Rao's V60 technique..):


great thanks. Seems like that variable filter holder has been phased out but presumably you can but it as a spare part.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

GingerBen said:


> great thanks. Seems like that variable filter holder has been phased out but presumably you can but it as a spare part.


I think it might not fit the models with the newer style carafes since the filter holder is rectangular and the old one is round. I think I actually was a bit wrong in my previous post as I realized my switch doesn't quite work so I haven't been using the half moon setting as I thought. So for 500g, not using half moon is probably ok. Less than that it might be necessary though. With 250g you always use it as a steep and release type brewer by removing the carafe.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> I think it might not fit the models with the newer style carafes since the filter holder is rectangular and the old one is round. I think I actually was a bit wrong in my previous post as I realized my switch doesn't quite work so I haven't been using the half moon setting as I thought. So for 500g, not using half moon is probably ok. Less than that it might be necessary though. With 250g you always use it as a steep and release type brewer by removing the carafe.


I think 500ml is the least I'd make in it tbh so that's ok. It's confusing with these machines to know which model is the newest as the half batch feature seems a good idea so why get rid of it for a newer model? Perhaps that has the ability to slow it down through the water flow through the shower head?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

GingerBen said:


> I think 500ml is the least I'd make in it tbh so that's ok. It's confusing with these machines to know which model is the newest as the half batch feature seems a good idea so why get rid of it for a newer model? Perhaps that has the ability to slow it down through the water flow through the shower head?


I'm not sure - maybe they thought it didn't make enough of a difference? I would also suggest emailing them or giving them a call. They have really good customer support.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> I'm not sure - maybe they thought it didn't make enough of a difference? I would also suggest emailing them or giving them a call. They have really good customer support.


Thanks, I've messages Bella barista asking this question as I thought they'd probably know what was best. Will see why they say.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I managed to fix my filter holder so that the switch works properly now. However I am still using the full open setting without any problems for 500g, the basket still fills up to about more than half during brew and the flow rate is slow enough to give me about 3:30 total contact time. Half moon might be useful if you're doing smaller brews though, but then the bed might not be deep enough. You're likely better off using a V60 or a Clever for 250g brews.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I know it is not relevant to the Moccamaster but I have been using my Wilfa a bit over the past couple of weeks. The model I have has a brushed steel base with a kettle fixed in it that lets you boil and or maintain temp from 60 to 90 degrees. Opposite the kettle is the brewer and glass jug. Have been using 27 gms ground to aeropress (according to the Wilfa grinder). I close the dripper. Create a bloom for 30 seconds, quick stir, add the balance of the water then open the valve a little, aiming for 4 to 5 minutes in total. The result is a clean brew with no sludge at all.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> I managed to fix my filter holder so that the switch works properly now. However I am still using the full open setting without any problems for 500g, the basket still fills up to about more than half during brew and the flow rate is slow enough to give me about 3:30 total contact time. Half moon might be useful if you're doing smaller brews though, but then the bed might not be deep enough. You're likely better off using a V60 or a Clever for 250g brews.


Thats good to know. For single or double cups I'll use my kalita wave (when it arrives) so this would only be for 500ml and larger. Think I'm sold now I'm getting one


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

On the thermos Moccamasters that do not have the shut off Valve, you can put your finger on the "base of the jug" switch which keeps the flow of water coming out but does not release the coffee into the jug as there is still a shut off valve at the base of the dripper cone.

Hope of help

John


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Anybody wiser than me tell the difference between these other than the valve on the filter basket?

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/technvorm-clubline-10-thermo-black.html

http://www.coffeelusso.co.uk/filter-coffee-machines/technivorm-moccamaster-kbgt741-ao-thermos-coffee-filter-machine


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

GingerBen said:


> Anybody wiser than me tell the difference between these other than the valve on the filter basket?
> 
> http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/technvorm-clubline-10-thermo-black.html
> 
> http://www.coffeelusso.co.uk/filter-coffee-machines/technivorm-moccamaster-kbgt741-ao-thermos-coffee-filter-machine


Hmm I don't see a valve on either of them?


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> Hmm I don't see a valve on either of them?


you're right. I think coffee lusso have just changed their website to reflect the newer model. They have red back in stock too so maybe new delivery of newer ones arrived.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Has anyone made any tests to see if pre-heating the Moccamaster with a little bit of water (~200-250ml) makes any difference when brewing 500g at a time?


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> Has anyone made any tests to see if pre-heating the Moccamaster with a little bit of water (~200-250ml) makes any difference when brewing 500g at a time?


I finally timed one of my 30:500g brews and it came out at 4:13 seconds. That's from first contact with water to a dry top of coffee bed, not end of last drops. I've taken my grind coarser as I was finding that the coffee was tasting quite 'stewed' with beans that should be fairly bright and fruity. This brew at 4:13 was better than the last but I'm wondering if I need to coarser again to get it under 4 mins?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

You can try going coarser. I find that Moccamaster extracts coffee quite readily and it's not so easy to underextract. What grinder/grind setting are you using?


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

the_partisan said:


> You can try going coarser. I find that Moccamaster extracts coffee quite readily and it's not so easy to underextract. What grinder/grind setting are you using?


using a Sage Smart Grinder Pro at the most coarse setting it has with the top burr at 8. It can go more if needed.


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