# Espresso best practice guide?



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Hello all!

Is there a best practice guide on here somewhere please that anyone is aware of?

I have looked around by the way! Before posting.

I've been plodding along for 4 years or so refining my approach now and again but there are some things I'm sure need improving.

For example I like the idea from an accuracy standpoint of single dosing the grinder - although appreciate the grind retention of mine would cause issues with this. Currently I grind into a receptacle on a weighing scale but I'm sure there's a better way?

Anyway any direction to a guide or thoughts on these challenges would be most welcome.

Many thanks.

J


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I'd like to see one developed if it's not there already. I'm sure it would work best as a moderated wiki though rather than a normal thread (lots of contributions to build the consensus but crafted into a harmonious, clearly structured and well written view). Potentially this could even be worth the forum self-publishing the result. I'm sure I'd buy a copy.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

That's a cool idea.

Self publishing is uber cheap now. Even for a few copies.

I went onto the wiki section of the forum yesterday to look.

How would it best work? By machine type I.e. HX, Dual/single boiler - or would you see it as a uniform guide for all - that had machine type specific guidance.

It could link out to other more advanced topics too - so once someone had a handle on the basics they could revisit it and push their game further?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd be happy to help with this but my knowledge is significantly less than others on here I would imagine.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Echo all of the above - there seems to be lots of bits of information around - including Scott Rao's books but not a readable, comprehensive guide that has a special feature a detailed demystification of the sequence of variables to control for - including the wonderful world of ratios...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

This is a useful guide to espresso dose/extraction ratios.

View attachment 7134


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Phil104 said:


> Echo all of the above - there seems to be lots of bits of information around - including Scott Rao's books but not a readable, comprehensive guide that has a special feature a detailed demystification of the sequence of variables to control for - including the wonderful world of ratios...


I'm still working through Scott's book! It gets a bit technical in places!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Bluebottle espresso book is very nicely presented and isn't too technical


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

As in the dudes from San Francisco?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Aye

13 characters


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thank you!

This one? http://www.bluebottlecoffee.com/products/blue-bottle-craft-of-coffee


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Yeah but you can get it on Amazon UK


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Even cheaper on ebay. Hmmm, tempting!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Think i might pick this book up, looks interesting!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Could we do a play it on type thing here, each person pays a £1 plus postage and all profit goes to Forum, or am I overcomplicating the use of a relatively inexpensive book?!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Think i would prefer my own copy...


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Understandable!


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Coincidentally, a copy of the Bluebottle book arrived this week (via the Book Depository and Amazon). I have only had time to dip into it so far and while readable, interesting and informative it's not comprehensive so I still end up with a sense of assembling bits of information from a variety of sources.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What do you think is missing? I've read a few chapters and found it generally pretty good.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> This is a useful guide to espresso dose/extraction ratios.
> 
> View attachment 7134


 Scott Rao reproduces this. One of things that I was going to ask about separately, is the origin of the 1:1.6 ratio, which seems to be a standard forum reference point.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I believe DavecUK noted in another thread on 'grind checks' that the third wave standard was 20g in to 32g out. I believe Scott Rao did the original research that correlated weight with total dissolved solids which lead to the brew weight ratio table available on homebarista.

id still like to see a coffeeforumsuk wiki. I think this idea has real potential. I'm sure Glenn could create a private area where a group could develop something stable and robust prior to putting it out there.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Obnic said:


> I believe DavecUK noted in another thread on 'grind checks' that the third wave standard was 20g in to 32g out. I believe Scott Rao did the original research that correlated weight with total dissolved solids which lead to the brew weight ratio table available on homebarista.
> 
> id still like to see a coffeeforumsuk wiki. I think this idea has real potential. I'm sure Glenn could create a private area where a group could develop something stable and robust prior to putting it out there.


As I'm sure you know, there is a wiki here: just needs that "The Steps of Espresso Perfection" section!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Phil104 said:


> Coincidentally, a copy of the Bluebottle book arrived this week (via the Book Depository and Amazon). I have only had time to dip into it so far and while readable, interesting and informative it's not comprehensive so I still end up with a sense of assembling bits of information from a variety of sources.


Thanks; that's worth knowing.



jeebsy said:


> What do you think is missing? I've read a few chapters and found it generally pretty good.


As is this! What is missing?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Obviously once you're familiar with a topic and want to get more information on certain aspects you need to look to other sources, but all in it was sufficient imo


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

jonc said:


> Thanks; that's worth knowing.
> 
> As is this! What is missing?


 To be fair, I was going from an impression from a quick skim and I do need to read it properly. As a general point, some of what I have read tends to assume a level of knowledge and experience that I do not have (the forum is great at plugging some of those gaps... although sometimes I need to ask to clarify something, such as the origin of 1.1:6). I suspect that in one thread or another on the forum there is all the information that one could ever want or need - it's just that it's scattered about and not always in obvious places because the the thread title might not be a good indication of the whole content. I think a section in the wiki, as suggested above, is a great idea to bring it all together.


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## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

I think it's a great idea too. That table about brewing ratios looks useful, is there a link anyway to it so I can print it off?

Rod


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phil104 said:


> Scott Rao reproduces this. One of things that I was going to ask about separately, is the origin of the 1:1.6 ratio, which seems to be a standard forum reference point.


The chart in Scott Rao's book was devised by AndyS who posts here from time to time. All espresso ends up meeting a ratio (weight of beverage relative to dose weight), the ratio ideally sets the concentration of the shot, you then primarily use grind (keeping to the same ratio) to dial in the flavour (sour/tart grind finer, bitter drying...if you ever get that far...grind coarser). It's very much the same for drip brewed coffee (except the ratio is based on the water you add, not the beverage weight).

Brew ratio is elective, whatever ratio you use, the idea is to hit that flavour balance, whatever the length of the drink produced. 1:1.6 is a commonly referred to ratio, especially in medium/light roasted, SO coffees. Aiming for higher extraction levels, or starting out with much darker beans might see your shots get longer. Conversely, some folk like them a little tighter still.

There is no one "right/one size fits all" espresso ratio, 1:1.3 might be seen as the tighter (Ristretto) end, 1:4 (maybe longer) more in line with Italian definitions. In theory, you could pull shots down to brewed coffee ratios, if you like coffee at that strength...the ratio doesn't relate directly to "pass/fail" in itself, you can extract the coffee to a pleasing flavour balance at pretty much any ratio, grinder/grind/prep etc. allowing.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

MWJB said:


> ...Aiming for higher extraction levels, or starting out with much darker beans might see your shots get longer. Conversely, some folk like them a little tighter still.
> 
> There is no one "right/one size fits all" espresso ratio, 1:1.3 might be seen as the tighter (Ristretto) end, 1:4 (maybe longer) more in line with Italian definitions.


Thank you - this is very helpful. I'm sorry if it's a dense question but what does 'tighter' mean in this context? I've seen it appear in other postings and haven't summoned up the courage to ask until now.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tighter- making the grind finer so reduces the ratio, ( shot would run in roughly the same time span but you would get less espresso out ) makes a more intense flavoured drink


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Tighter- making the grind finer so reduces the ratio, ( shot would run in roughly the same time span but you would get less espresso out ) makes a more intense flavoured drink


 Thank you...in that case I had a recent example of making the grind so tight that nothing ran out. And what's the opposite of 'tighter'?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

MWJB said:


> The chart in Scott Rao's book was devised by AndyS.


DOH! That's right Andy Schechter did the original correlation work not Scott Rao. I'm going daft in my old age.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Phil104 said:


> Thank you...in that case I had a recent example of making the grind so tight that nothing ran out. And what's the opposite of 'tighter'?


Looser

13 char


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

...or coarser. Was being a bit facetious there


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Hey systemic do u have a better copy of that table? A link or pdf perhaps?


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