# Seriously newbie questions...



## AndyH83 (Sep 23, 2015)

Hello all,

So having secured a Gaggia Classic as a first step on my serious quest to make lovely coffee at home, I have a couple of questions that I know you knowledgable lot will know the answer too, but I'm a bit sheepish about asking as I can already see the rolling eyes!!...

Anyway, here goes.

Grinding:

So with the anticipated collection of an MC2 grinder, what kind of courseness should I be looking for to make the nicest espresso? Is it matter of taste, or is generally the finer the better? With my old machine, a Dualit 3 in 1, I used pre-ground Illy coffee, and I always found the espresso to be fairly 'watery', with not too much crema, and in my mind I imagine that a much finer grind will produce a more luxurious espresso?

Weight:

I've read quite a few posts regarding how much coffee is needed to create various types of shot, and the different ratios needed. Am I right in thinking that a single espresso would be 7g of coffee, and result in a 25ml shot of espresso?

Tamping:

This is something which I really did not master with my previous machine. I never really knew how hard to press, (it just had a plastic tamper on the other end of the scoop). If I didn't press very hard, I got a fast flow and kind of water consistency with hardly any crema, but if I pressed it hard, I felt like the machine was struggling to force the water through.

It didn't help that the basket kept constantly clogging with grounds, so I had to use a paper filter to avoid this, and I think that this had a negative impact on the espresso overall. I believe the basket was a double walled one too, which I had to replace as it was just unusable after a while. Any advice would be appreciated regarding the pressure needed when tamping, and also whether it is good to invest in a metal, more weightier tamper too?

Milk:

I generally enjoy flat whites when drinking something other than an espresso, and I seriously struggled with my previous machine to get anything other than hot milk with a thin layer of foam on the top. I have a feeling the steam wand wasn't great, plus the design of the machine meant that you could only really use a very small milk jug and it was all just a bit awkward.

I intend to watch some youtube videos to get a better idea of how to create the perfect milk for a flat white, and I assume that a thermometer is an essential item in this regard. But in general, do you recommend any upgrades to the standard steam wands, or can the perfect flat white be achieved with the stock wand and a bit of practice and patience?

Also if anyone knows of any decent youtube tutorials for producing the coffee/milk which are accurate and reliable, I would be really grateful for a share.

I know making coffee is a very personal thing, with lots of trial and error involved, but I was quickly frustrated with my last machine as I just couldn't seem to do anything right, and I would welcome some advice to point me in the right general direction so I can hone my skills by starting from a sound footing.

Thanks again everyone! And sorry for the laboured post.

Cheers,

Andy.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@AndyH83 have you read this

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22879-Beginners-Reading-Weighing-Espresso-Brew-Ratios

think of single and doubles as the basket you use - not a type of drink


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@AndyH83

now read this

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3858-So-you%92ve-just-bought-your-Gaggia-Classic

re milk read and watch this

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22590-How-to-create-Silk-Milk-on-a-Gaggia-Classic-(Velvety-Microfoam)&highlight=microfoam+milk+gaggia


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

AndyH83 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> So having secured a Gaggia Classic as a first step on my serious quest to make lovely coffee at home, I have a couple of questions that I know you knowledgable lot will know the answer too, but I'm a bit sheepish about asking as I can already see the rolling eyes!!...
> 
> ...


See above in capitals for answers

have fun do some reading and come back when when you have more questions


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

silvia wand - direct replacement

undo nut from underneath

gently pull down and remove existing one

***discard washer supplied with new one***

insert new wand, tighten nut firm - but so wand can swivel

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pre-Modified-Rancilio-Silvia-V1-V2-Steam-Wand-Arm-For-Your-Gaggia-/271579058690?hash=item3f3b5f9202


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

a good deal - milk thermometer

.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281570089370?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

scales

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271866182808?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

CAFIZA power cleaner - to back flush

.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141751238250?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and a blank plate to do it

.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281705392845?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=580711411113&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

you will end up throwing the thermometer - honestly - get temp tags or use your hand


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

TAMPER 58mm

i just bought one of these - good price and quality for a 'starter'

.

https://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=1817

if - later - you buy a 'upmarket' double basket by VST you will be better off with a 58.35mm tamper

cheapest i found was £30

.

http://coffeehit.co.uk/cafelat-espresso-tamper-5835mm


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

yardbent said:


> a good deal - milk thermometer
> 
> .
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281570089370?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


I do believe that the *TempTag* is considered to be better and easier to use than the thermometer.


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## AndyH83 (Sep 23, 2015)

Wow....thank you @Mrboots2u for all of the extrordinarily useful information! Am in the office right now so have only skimmed, but it seems like you've pretty much covered everything! Seriously, thank you!!

Will get the machine, give it a good clean including backflusing - want to first ensure which type of solenoid it has, as it's an Italian manufactured model, but dated 2010.

After that, I've ordered a number of items which you have suggested @yardbent , and I'll get up and running at the end of the week after doing my further studying! Your post about weighing and timing makes a lot of sense, and sets good benchmarks for comparison.

Need to find some decent beans to try too.

Really looking forward to getting started, and I really do appreciate the advice I've been given from everyone!


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## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I do believe that the *TempTag* is considered to be better and easier to use than the thermometer.


not disagree with you - but when i hit the link to see - i got this warning

prob just my AV though

This site has been reported as phishing website.

Exchanging sensitive or confidential information with this site could put you at risk of identity theft and/or financial fraud.

We strongly discourage visiting this page.

You are visiting: http://www.freewebstore.org/TempTag-UK


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yardbent said:


> not disagree with you - but when i hit the link to see - i got this warning
> 
> prob just my AV though
> 
> ...


weird i dont get a warning


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

No warning for me either.

Heres some more temp tag links anyway

http://www.comparecoffee.co.uk/shop/home-and-garden/milk-frothometer-label-thermometer-sticks-to-frothing-jug/

http://www.colourchanging.co.uk/around-the-home/food-drink/milk-frothing-barista-coffee-thermometer-2-pk-/prod_309.html

http://www.colourchanging.co.uk/thermometers/irreversible-hot-surface-labels/irreversible-temperature-label-8-level-77-to-116a-c/prod_433.html

Heres a clip showing a temp tag in action,, skip to 39 seconds in


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## Whizzbang (Sep 29, 2015)

Thanks to the OP for asking these questions and thanks for the answers. As a total noob to making good coffee as opposed to just drinking it I hope my questions will not seem so daft.


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## SeamusMcFlurry (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey! Thought I'd jump in an give my two cents. First, I feel I should point out I've been a professional barista for eight years, so while I know an awful lot, I'm used to using commercial machines and so some of what I say might need tweaking for home machines. However, the principles and science remain the same.

*Grind.*

So, there is no set grind you need to use. Pre ground coffee will almost always be something called 'omni-grind', which is basically meant to be used for everything from french press to espresso, but is useful for none of them. The grind you use will depend on all of your other variables, which I'll go into in the next section.

*Weight*

Weight will depend on what is referred to as a brew recipe. This is the weight of your coffee dose, the weight of the espresso, and the time it takes to extract. For example, my starting point when dialling in a grinder is almost always 18g in, 36g out, over 30 seconds. I recommend this recipe as it's usually not too far off, and you can play around with it from there.

Now, dialling in a grinder. First, weigh every dose. When it's exactly the amount you want to use (for this example, 18g), then you move onto the next step, which is to brew it, and time how long it takes to brew. If it takes too long, or comes through too quickly then you need to change your grind; coarser if it's slow, finer if it's fast. Finally, if you have a semi-automatic machine (the water flow automatically stops) then brew weight won't be an issue, as you can pre set that. If it's a manual machine (i.e., you have to stop the espresso pouring yourself), then have a set of scales under your espresso cup and stop just before you hit your target espresso weight.

The most important things. Only ever change one thing at a time, and when you change anything start the process all over again.

*Tamping*

The guys are right, tamp pressure doesn't make a whole lot of difference. You are trying to create a flat, level bed of coffee so that the water travels through the coffee puck evenly, thereby extracting all of the coffee evenly. If the tamp is at an angle, or is badly distributed, then you risk over extracting one area of the coffee, which will make your coffee bitter and thin.

Use your finger to evenly distribute the coffee around the basket, then tamp your coffee, careful to keep the tamp level, about as hard as you'd put a key into a keyhole. Make sure to keep your wrist in line with your elbow, with the pressure coming from your shoulder. This eliminates the risk of RSI in your wrist.

*Milk*

Milk is my favourite subject, so excuse me while I get scientific (and trust me, the science really helps the way you steam milk).

Your aim in steaming milk is twofold. 1) You aim to heat your milk to a comfortable drinking temperature. 2) You aim to give your milk texture and sweetness through the addition of air.

Usually the most difficult bit is part two, so we'll start there. Microfoam is what gives texture to milk. We create microfoam by 'aerating' milk with a steam wand. The trick is do do this quickly, when the milk is still cold, and not to add too much air. On a professional machine I find a couple of quick 'hisses' (for want of a better term) are sufficient. The quicker you're able to do this the better, and for a very good reason. Aeration is the creation of small bubbles, which are then broken down into smaller bubbles. These bubbles are created and held together by a combination of whey proteins and fats. Up to 40 degrees these bubbles are small, soft and easily broken down into smaller bubbles by spinning the milk. Beyond 40 they create larger harder bubbles. Beyond 70 the proteins denature and the foam will split and become meringue-like, and the milk will feel thin and taste burnt.

So, in summary, aerate quickly , and stop when your jug becomes warm to the touch. At that point spin your milk (using the steam wand, rather than moving the jug at all), careful not to add more air. When the jug becomes too hot to hold, stop your steam wand and pour your milk. Also, on't bother with thermometers of any kind. They lag, and your hand will ALWAYS be a better judge of how hot your milk is.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Any questions, or anything I haven't explained very well just let me know!

Ta.


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## AndyH83 (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks Seamus!

Really interesting reading all of your advice, can't thank you enough.

Particularly with the brew recipes. After much tinkering around I found through finally weighing the ground coffee that I was using far too little coffee, tamping too hard and getting either jammed machine with nothing but a dribble coming out, or very water espresso.

Used 18g in a double basket yesterday and got a good espresso, but still think it was too quick, as certainly didn't take 25 - 30 seconds. Have a cheapy hand grinder and getting the setting right is hard.

I've just invested in (what I though was a cheap at £150) Mazzer Super Jolly grinder, so hopefully I can get some really decent grinds out of the machine and 'dial it in' nicely so that I can get consistently the espresso I'm looking for.

As for milk, the jug I ordered hasn't arrived yet so have only been using a large coffee mug to aerate and heat the milk, which is far from ideal. Using my old machine I found it very tricky, I'd seemingly get lots of foam, but ultimately it would always seem to separate, with foam on the top and warm standard milk beneath - not sure what I was doing wrong. The Rancillo wand on my classic is far far superior to my old machine though so hopefully once the jug arrives I can get some serious practice and hone my skills.

Thanks again everyone! I'll be back once I finally get cracking with the machine - spare time is not in abundance at the moment unfortunately!

andy


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