# The Niche Zero user experience



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Lets start something that's not about, when is my grinder coming, interesting as it might be. How is everyone who has received their Niche Zero finding the grinder. Have you compared it against your existing grinder if you have one, has it helped the coffee making process, do we have some videos of your Niche in action and the shots it's producing. How are you finding the weight consistency out vs in etc..


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

That's just like rubbing salt in the wound .....sorry couldn't resist...


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Good idea. I intend to compare with my Mythos when mine arrives so I'll get some videos and feedback


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## 322 (Sep 2, 2016)

I like it. Had a mignon before and it is making tastier shots already. The only thing I need to get better at is distribution of the grinds after transferring from cup to portafilter. Need to experiment a little as hit and miss at the moment. Much quieter than the mignon and I think looks nicer too.


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## matharon (Dec 22, 2014)

Just posted on the other thread so copied below -

Looks much nicer and neater in reality than previous photos and video also arrived incredibly well packed.

Three 18g lots through initially as per suggestions and used these to dial in ending up at 11 for Chatswood 10s pre at 2bar and slowish ramp to 9 to get 2.5:1 after 40 sec o/all. First drinking shot as good as any from E92 to date.

Very impressed and many thanks to all involved especially DaveC who has guided so many on this forum with his very objective reviews and ever helpful advice.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

It's tiny! Even in comparison with a 65e. And very pretty. It's also slow. I had to back the grind setting off to 25 to get 35g out from 18g in in 30 seconds with my current bean. It's more staticy than my 65e but the grind is excellent, even on brand new burrs, very even and VERY fluffy. The catch cup is all very well but I'm finding that the grinds are so fluffy it's difficult to trnsfer to the basket without making an unholy mess. Worth it in the cup though, I'm definitely getting more complex flavours even in milk. I'd still rather have a Mythos but I'll persist with this for a while before deciding whether the 65e or the Niche goes.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

To all new users, do not forget that this is a conical grinder and as such, produces a different range of flavours to a flat burr. If you haven't experienced conicals before, then realise that part of the new taste you are getting is down to that


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

matharon said:


> Just posted on the other thread so copied below -
> 
> Looks much nicer and neater in reality than previous photos and video also arrived incredibly well packed.
> 
> ...


That is good to hear. I'm also pitching it against the E92. It's the zero retention that will clinch it if it's on par taste-wise.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lake_m said:


> That is good to hear. I'm also pitching it against the E92. It's the zero retention that will clinch it if it's on par taste-wise.


I found little if any difference between the Niche & my E92, just a lot less faffing about and more consistent dosing.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

How do I find it compared to the 'Franked' Versalab M3? Lot less faff.. Sure the M3 grinds directly into the pf but then you have to distribute the coffee, and the little volcano mound can make a bit of mess with removing the pf from the forks. The Niche however is just easy to use. Put beans in and switch on. The tumbler fits the pf very nicely. Turn it over, give it a shake, remove and a spin with an OCD thingy before tamping is all that you need.

Probably takes around the same time to grind as well (but you've got to gradually feed beans into the M3.) As for taste difference, I've not actually done a comparison yet as I'm still playing







Also as Dfk says, although the M3 is a hybrid, the conicals are pre-breakers but still uses flats to finish. Forget the EK, they are a law unto themselves









In fact I don't think I'm actually interested in doing a comparison to see which one gives better results in the cup as they are all different and the results will only be subjective of preferred taste and how light/dark the roast is. I'm just really happy that I've now got a large conical in a compact body that doesn't take up much room without the worry of wasting a ton of coffee single dosing.

Plus when I go on holiday anywhere, I can pack the Niche and take a V60/Moka pot with me. Whereas the M3 weighs a ton, and the EK has its own postcode..


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

322 said:


> The only thing I need to get better at is distribution of the grinds after transferring from cup to portafilter. Need to experiment a little as hit and miss at the moment.


 @DavecUK What do you use Dave? I saw a wee plastic thingy ma bob on your PF when you did the demo's Niche?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I only use the grind cup now.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I only use the grind cup now.


It's all you need I think. Nice design touch as well.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I only use the grind cup now.





Rhys said:


> It's all you need I think. Nice design touch as well.


Can't wait to get mine now


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

You can see here how WBC Champion is single dosing with cup, Funnel, OCD type distribution tool.






Starts from 1:48.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, unboxed the white one as the black is for my son. As others have said, well thought through and packed nicely. A quick skim of the leaflet. I started on 19 with Mystery 9 and the Nota choked. Backed off 2 notches, same thing. Backed off another notch and the pour was spot on but pre infusion took about 20 seconds which aint a problem. have backed off another notch but going out. I only tasted one and straight sway, you get that conical burr earthiness to the flavour that is unmistakable. Expectations are really high for me now, having got it in my hands! Slight amount of static with the cup but hey ho!


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Still dialing it in but so far I am very impressed. Its small but solid and quite heavy compared to my old Sage SGP. I really like the look of it and the colours, red led, switch etc really suit it.

So far I have already pulled a better shot than I ever managed with the SGP and I will probably start drinking more espresso now that it has a chance of coming out nicely! I'm not getting the bitterness or sourness that I couldn't seem to shake before so I am super impressed so far.

Last thing is that its super quiet vs the SGP. That thing was noisy even without beans in it. This is nice and quiet and I like the fact I just stick the 20g of beans in, turn it on and forget about it until its done.

The only concern I have is that when you watch the bottom burr rotate it appears to be travelling laterally quite a lot. I'm hoping that is nothing to do with burr alignment.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Still dialing it in but so far I am very impressed. Its small but solid and quite heavy compared to my old Sage SGP. I really like the look of it and the colours, red led, switch etc really suit it.
> 
> So far I have already pulled a better shot than I ever managed with the SGP and I will probably start drinking more espresso now that it has a chance of coming out nicely! I'm not getting the bitterness or sourness that I couldn't seem to shake before so I am super impressed so far.
> 
> ...


Forget about watching the retaining bolt and retainer underneath. *Watch the edge of the burr itself* and you will find no lateral movement when rotating.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Its kind of hard to tell because of the branding on the lid and the distraction of the retaining bolt and washer but I kind of assumed it will have been designed to be aligned properly by design rather than due to the retaining bolt in any way.

The grinds are also super fluffy which is nice.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Its kind of hard to tell because of the branding on the lid and the distraction of the retaining bolt and washer but I kind of assumed it will have been designed to be aligned properly by design rather than due to the retaining bolt in any way.
> 
> The grinds are also super fluffy which is nice.


it is the burrs slip down a machined shaft and are aligned. The actual bolt on top with the key-way that engages the burr at the top and the black part that presses down on the burr are simply to hold it down on the shaft, apply pressure to the sweep arms and lock the burr to the shaft. If plays no part in centering the burr....that's already taken care of when the burr is slipped onto the shaft. The retaining mechanism has some float, because if it didn't then it would be hard to engage. Anyone who has taken the top burr off will know and understand exactly what I mean. This has the advantage of making it impossible for a user to misalign the burrs after removal and replacement, because that top "hold down" key-way system can in no way affect alignment..

Also when replacing the burrs, I really don't tighten them too much at all, just hold the burr with my fingers and lightly nip up that nut using a 10mm (or is is 8mm) bit in a screwdriver handle....not a spanner.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Finally got home to mine. Only pulled one shot so far on a guess following 18g through it and thrown away and already that was a tasty one, despite a bit of inconsistency showing under the naked pf and a bit of a slow pour. I just tipped into the pf with a jiggle, levelled and tramped. No doubt there's work to be done there but the work flow is so clean and easy.

"Finger tight" it seems to me could give a range of at least 5 units depending on one's interpretation of it. Looks like my interpretation will take me to low teens for an espresso grind on these beans (Foundry Rio Magdalena Columbian). I could've tightened it less on calibrating and still called it finger tight.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Early days I know but I'd be really interested in people's experience with dialling back & forth between spro & filter!


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Glad to hear that the retaining nut bears no relation to alignment but it'll drive me mad so I'll have to try & centre it.

First grind I got 1g retention. If, over a few test grinds the total in doesn't equal the total out I'll open it up and look for the retained grinds.

Next I'll make some coffee!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Repost from the madness thread...










Really excited. 4th shot this night was awesome. First two choked DTP at 12 and 16, then backed off at 22 and then back to 21. Nice!

It's so quiet I thought it had some rocks or metals stuck when it stopped grinding.

It certainly looks miles better than in the photos. It's really geeky and satisfactory to see the burrs spinning as well.

I was planning to sink the shot, but it's so tasty!

... is anyone after a Ceado E37s?


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Ok so I've found the missing grinds by giving the chute a tap.









I've gone from the delivered setting of 20 down to 15 to get back to my usual 45sec shot (8sec 2bar then up to 9 and a slow descent).

Still getting sour shots but I'm wired now so am stopping for now. FWIW I prefer sour to bitter but it's going to take me a bit longer to dial in.

Loving my Black coffee corner but now I need more cupboard space to store all the gubbins previously left on the Mazzer's big tray!


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Used mine this morning for my breakfast routine. It's nice to switch it on and let it do its thing while I made my breakfast. Made an Americano for breakfast and a larger one for my travel mug for when I got to work. Can't really fault it tbh, it does what it does.

Does anyone find they don't have to distribute after emptying the cup into the portafilter basket? I've stopped using my Londinium tool and just level the surface with my spinnny thing, then tamp. The bottom of the basket shows a nice even spread of coffee when saturated.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Quick question. Regarding cleaning. After reading instructions would I be right in thinking that we should not use grinder cleaner tablets?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

CoffeeChris said:


> Quick question. Regarding cleaning. After reading instructions would I be right in thinking that we should not use grinder cleaner tablets?


Why? Just unscrew the top and brush out. Screw the top down until finger tight, align the white dot with the calibrate arrow and turn back to whatever settings you had before.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Rhys said:


> Why? Just unscrew the top and brush out. Screw the top down until finger tight, align the white dot with the calibrate arrow and turn back to whatever settings you had before.


Only ask as that's how I used to clean previous grinder...


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

CoffeeChris said:


> Only ask as that's how I used to clean previous grinder...


Know what you mean. My others need with an Allen key or a screwdriver, plus a degree of patience to strip down to clean. Even the Mazzer was a bit of a pain to strip. This is just easy, which is how it should be.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

CoffeeChris said:


> Quick question. Regarding cleaning. After reading instructions would I be right in thinking that we should not use grinder cleaner tablets?


If it says it in the instructions, I would seriously take notice of the recommendation *not* to use grinder cleaning tablets/grindz, I am certain the person who put that in knew what they were talking about. Just do it the old fashioned way. However retention is quite low so it does not tend to get dirty as quickly. I would recommend once every 3-6 months....or again whatever it says in the instructions.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> If it says it in the instructions, I would seriously take notice of the recommendation *not* to use grinder cleaning tablets/grindz, I am certain the person who put that in knew what they were talking about. Just do it the old fashioned way. However retention is quite low so it does not tend to get dirty as quickly. I would recommend once every 3-6 months....or again whatever it says in the instructions.


I'm definitely not questioning the instructions. Just wanted to clarify that tablets is on the list of specialist cleaning products. I'm guessing they are


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

It'll be some time before I get to cleaning....


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## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

I have a question regarding coarse grind. It seems that the grinds are still quite fine even on the coarse setting, and I have to rotate the adjustment another full rotation counter-clockwise to get a coarse grind to use with my Bunn Trifecta. Any other experiences with this?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, the burrs will take a little time to settle down. Today has been espresso but tomorrow for breakfast it is going to be a Clever dripper which needs a fairly coarse grind, so at some point I will report back. At the moment, the grinder is set to 20 for my espresso which suggests plenty of room left even when they settle down, but in the tests done by @MWJB on brewed, there did not seem to be any problem grinding appropriately


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

So so impressed with this.

From the packaging to the initiative way of calibrating it to the quietness and the grind cup.

My ONLY gripe is the cord storage, this could and should feel slicker than it does in my honest opinion but it seems to work regardless.

Tried a few shots earlier and gave me much nicer flavour in the cup, also didn't need to distribute post grind, just into the PF, quick tap and then tamp.

Overall, very happy.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Been trying mine out today and have to say I love it. I haven't quite got it right yet (trying it out for pourover before spro). Went for 34 in the middle of the filter range, but it was waaaayy finer than I'd usually grind for the kalita. Backed off to 50, but still a little fine. Will have to back off further tomorrow and take another crack


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

How many people have calibrated their Niche?

Doing it to mine dropped my espressos from mid twenties to mid tens, so this may reflect the numbers being off the guide.

I will reiterate how happy I am with the Niche, has simplified and sped up my coffee routine massively, only downside being that I am drinking more coffee.


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## RNAV (Aug 20, 2018)

PPapa said:


> ... is anyone after a Ceado E37s?


I'm curious to hear your thoughts regarding taste differences between the Niche and your E37s -- how do they compare? Did you use your E37s for single-dosing?



*Save**Save*
​


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## Hoggers (Oct 5, 2018)

Hello to all,

Am posting from Australia as I am one of the early peps to have received the Niche and user feedback is a bit light on the ground at the moment.

Anyway, I am finding that I am sitting at the 34 mark for espresso, which in itself is fine but just looks odd sitting in the middle of the filter setting for espresso. Reading some of the comments above I was wondering if it would be worth looking to calibrate the grinder?

If so, how do you do it? I have read the instructions but they seem a bit odd given that once calibrated you are supposed unscrew the funnel anti-clockwise back to the chosen grind setting. Surely going in this direction will remove the grind funnel?

I have tried removing the funnel and then screwing back on until finger tight (a few more than 4 turns). The white dot was not aligned to the calibrate mark so I turned the black dial counter-clockwise until it did. Is this correct or have I missed something?

Sorry for the questions but it just seems odd to be so far off the espresso end of the dial.

Appreciate any or all suggestions.

Cheers and happy brewing.

Alastair


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Hoggers said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> Am posting from Australia as I am one of the early peps to have received the Niche and user feedback is a bit light on the ground at the moment.
> 
> ...


You tighten the funnel to finger tight then click the black plastic ring round til the white dot aligns with "calibrate". Then you have the grind wound right in, so don't turn it on. You then wind the funnel back anticlockwise til the white dot points to your desired grind setting.

For me this led to quite a shift although I did it before use so couldn't tell you where it would've been uncalibrated, but 30s down to teens wouldn't seem out of the question. In fact the ring could've been spun to any position on delivery in theory.


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## Deejaysuave (Jan 26, 2015)

Amazed by the lack of retention, hope it continues!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Deejaysuave said:


> Amazed by the lack of retention, hope it continues!


It does and I still keep weighing in and out, more for the fascination than the need to weigh the output of the grinder.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> It does and I still keep weighing in and out, more for the fascination than the need to weigh the output of the grinder.


Have to say after doing the first few shots and seeing that there was quite literally 0 retention on 0.1g scales I haven't bothered since. Love the fact that I don't have 3-4g of stale coffee in the first shot of the day. I think the Niche is going to have a very bright future and become the standard for home grinders. Small, well built, infinitely adjustable, zero retention, quiet and great grind quality.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

RNAV said:


> I'm curious to hear your thoughts regarding taste differences between the Niche and your E37s -- how do they compare? Did you use your E37s for single-dosing?
> 
> *Save**Save*
> ​


I don't think it's fair to compare Niche and E37s. The taste wise they both can pull great shots, but I'm in honeymoon period with Niche right now and would prefer not to jump to conclusions. In regards to the taste, I wouldn't think I'd call an upgrade either way (Niche to E37s or E37s to Niche). Not right now, at least!

I also focus a lot more in dialling in, preparation and tasting as it's a new toy to play with.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

Being new to electric grinders what do people do about the chaff that remains in the burr chamber, do you just leave it? On my hand grinder I just blow it off with a puffer but of course with the Niche it would just go everywhere, and cant just lift it up and take it to the sink each time. I might have just found one small thing I prefer about my Feld







or maybe I could use a mini vac or just leave it. Dont suppose a bit more chaff makes much difference but I've got used to just giving it a quick puff and its gone and I just like it clean, think I might get a mini vac.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Rob666 said:


> It's tiny! Even in comparison with a 65e. And very pretty. It's also slow. I had to back the grind setting off to 25 to get 35g out from 18g in in 30 seconds with my current bean. It's more staticy than my 65e but the grind is excellent, even on brand new burrs, very even and VERY fluffy. The catch cup is all very well but I'm finding that the grinds are so fluffy it's difficult to trnsfer to the basket without making an unholy mess. Worth it in the cup though, I'm definitely getting more complex flavours even in milk. I'd still rather have a Mythos but I'll persist with this for a while before deciding whether the 65e or the Niche goes.


I just checked the calibration and it was miles (well, 9 clicks) out. Now the setting makes a lot more sense!


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

slamm said:


> Being new to electric grinders what do people do about the chaff that remains in the burr chamber, do you just leave it?


Either leave it or use the supplied brush to push it down. Run the grinder for a few seconds and give it a light tap and the retention just falls out usually. Its a tiny amount though.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

Having previously had a La Marzocco grinder with the same burrs in that I loved (sold due to the massive retention - one for commercial use only!), it's fabulous to get back to conical burrs. I've been using a Compak E5 with 58mm flat burrs, and the house bean is Rave Mocha Java (I incur the wrath of wife when I change it for her morning latte), with the niche this bean is smoother and tastes of pure chocolate instead of having that hint of roast burn flavour that I couldn't quite eliminate using the compak, seems as good as I remember with the old LM. Had an E37 previously, fabulous grinder but I'm not fond of the flavours punching you in the face that a big flat burr seems to produce vs. the smooth balance of conicals, this is purely personal preference though. Smoooooooooooth.

I've cleared some clutter from the coffee corner. After half a dozen or so shots I feel like the distribution tool is no longer needed, don't need a teaspoon to finesse the grind weight due to unreliable timers, and the output is fluffy lovely so I've sacked off the leveling tool too as it's such a pleasure to flatten with a finger when there isn't even the faintest clump.

I did weigh a couple in/out but when the second lot of grinds came out only 0.08g lighter, decided I'd not bother with that again. Routine will be simplified with beans pre-weighed into spice jars the night before and then it's just a case of emptying a jar in for each double shot.

Looking forward to trying with a much broader range of beans rather than the very easy going 'safe' option of the Rave blend.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Using on a Vesuvius, 14 sec 2 bar preinfusion, then 10 bar to a declining lever type profile.

My Espresso blend, medium , 10 days post roast setting 24

Decaf roasted dark side of medium, 10 days post roast 16

This was to get 35g from 18g

Will test using two other profiles, std 9 bar and std 9 bar with short preinfusion at a later date.

This was after calibration. Wound the funnel only finger tight, could go a few notches finer but the burrs would lock, then moved the black ring to align dot with calibration point.

Must say it is much smaller and quieter than I expected and retention low.

Can't see mine going to the fro sale section any time soon!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Reading the comments so far.....I think I'm safe getting a refund on my one way ticket for South America


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

LukeT said:


> You tighten the funnel to finger tight then click the black plastic ring round til the white dot aligns with "calibrate". Then you have the grind wound right in, so don't turn it on. You then wind the funnel back anticlockwise til the white dot points to your desired grind setting.
> 
> For me this led to quite a shift although I did it before use so couldn't tell you where it would've been uncalibrated, but 30s down to teens wouldn't seem out of the question. In fact the ring could've been spun to any position on delivery in theory.


I followed this and at finger tight the white Mark was pretty much bang on the calibrate mark so done at build time.


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## Hoggers (Oct 5, 2018)

LukeT said:


> You tighten the funnel to finger tight then click the black plastic ring round til the white dot aligns with "calibrate". Then you have the grind wound right in, so don't turn it on. You then wind the funnel back anticlockwise til the white dot points to your desired grind setting.
> 
> For me this led to quite a shift although I did it before use so couldn't tell you where it would've been uncalibrated, but 30s down to teens wouldn't seem out of the question. In fact the ring could've been spun to any position on delivery in theory.


Cheers Luke... that worked a treat and I am now down around the 16 mark which is a lot closer to where I would expect.

So happy with the grinder and the near zero retention is awesome.

Many happy days ahead


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Reading the comments so far.....I think I'm safe getting a refund on my one way ticket for South America


mmm... hasn't hit the HB forum yet ... someone will surely want to adapt a full size hopper for it !


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

FFS I'm going to end up getting one, aren't I? Even though the white one still reminds me of a toilet seat.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Are you guys leaving it plugged in permanently?

I.e. the red light on all the time?

Makes sense I just want to make sure it's designed to be that way and nothing is going to burn out etc


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I put two 18g doses through as suggested. Retention from the first was about 0.7g and the second about 0.3g. Both these were at 15 on the dial after calibration. I tried running the second one through and it choke the machine. I then made two to drink, guessing at 22. The first was 0.01g less out than in. The second was 0.02g more than in - very impressive. As impressive was that there was no static which meant the grounds sat lower in the basket before tamping so easier to tap to level with no mess. The first shot was 18-37 in 33s (on 22). I forgot to time the second. I'm using Origin Geisha Washed at present. I had previously had the natural and wasn't so keen on the washed but today they tasted great. It's early days and I shall take it home to try with the Vesuvius but first impressions are excellent. It's actually slightly larger and chunkier than I had imagined which is good and it's nice and smooth and quiet running. If it turns out to be as good as it seems it's great not having to spend £2,000 plus to get exactly what a home barista requires. I could just do with a 53mm cup but as there's no static, it transfers with the funnel very easily anyway. I might try straight into the basket.


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## Niche Coffee (Aug 4, 2017)

This is a truly amazing thread to read and I never tire of reading all of your comments.

We are really glad the grinder has been so well received and we can't thank Dave C enough for all of his help.

We hope the Niche continues to impress and if you have any questions/problems please drop me an email at [email protected] .

Keep up the great works guys,

James from Niche Coffee


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Question........what solutions have people come up with for single dosing? By that, I mean you can buy those really expensive glasss tubes in a stand that you load up with your desired dose then simply tip in. I have seen some using test tubes. I have seen some nice Zen type bamboo holders, and some, like me at the mo, just weigh out and tip in. thoughts?


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Question........what solutions have people come up with for single dosing? By that, I mean you can buy those really expensive glasss tubes in a stand that you load up with your desired dose then simply tip in. I have seen some using test tubes. I have seen some nice Zen type bamboo holders, and some, like me at the mo, just weigh out and tip in. thoughts?


I bought these months ago, turned out to be pointless with my K10 as there is too much variance but have been perfect for the Niche, one broke on arrival but the others are working well.

Thought about getting a block of wood and drilling some holes for them to go into but for now they are living in a kitchen draw underneath my machine.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

Rhys said:


> Does anyone find they don't have to distribute after emptying the cup into the portafilter basket? I've stopped using my Londinium tool and just level the surface with my spinnny thing, then tamp.


I'm still distributing but if the consensus turns out to be it doesnt need it then I'll probably go with that. The grounds certainly look fluffier than I'm used to with the Aergrind so perhaps its not needed.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Question........what solutions have people come up with for single dosing? By that, I mean you can buy those really expensive glasss tubes in a stand that you load up with your desired dose then simply tip in. I have seen some using test tubes. I have seen some nice Zen type bamboo holders, and some, like me at the mo, just weigh out and tip in. thoughts?


I'm using these to bring beans to work (hand grind at work and got an AeroPress):

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROUND-METAL-TIN-Small-Empty-Pot-Plain-Storage-60ml-68mm-Diam-x-25mm-High-/183218195729?_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1

Would work for Niche too, but I just weigh in when needed - worked well enough with Santos, so might just keep doing so with Niche.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dayks said:


> I bought these months ago, turned out to be pointless with my K10 as there is too much variance but have been perfect for the Niche, one broke on arrival but the others are working well.
> 
> Thought about getting a block of wood and drilling some holes for them to go into but for now they are living in a kitchen draw underneath my machine.


look nice, i had seen these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dabixx-Airtight-Container-Storage-Size-01/dp/B07FKJYHW6/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1538745039&sr=8-17&keywords=bamboo%2Btubes&th=1


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> look nice, i had seen these
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dabixx-Airtight-Container-Storage-Size-01/dp/B07FKJYHW6/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1538745039&sr=8-17&keywords=bamboo%2Btubes&th=1


Yeah, they look like a good option, more expensive but likely more durable.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> look nice, i had seen these
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dabixx-Airtight-Container-Storage-Size-01/dp/B07FKJYHW6/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1538745039&sr=8-17&keywords=bamboo%2Btubes&th=1


Are they airtight though?


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Question........what solutions have people come up with for single dosing? By that, I mean you can buy those really expensive glasss tubes in a stand that you load up with your desired dose then simply tip in. I have seen some using test tubes. I have seen some nice Zen type bamboo holders, and some, like me at the mo, just weigh out and tip in. thoughts?


Have you seen the jars in my photo? They work really well. I was going to make a rack whereby you fill them up then pull then out of the bottom in turn but I've ended up moving away from filling them in advance and just filling enough for the number of drinks I'm making each time. Also, I did spray the beans so needed something to shake them in. Now that I don't think I'll need to do that I may just weigh as I go. I'm undecided as yet.


----------



## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

Looking at the deep cleaning part in the guide and curious how it stays in alignment after replacing the burrs.. is the inner burr keyed? As the outer burr can go back in two ways I assume it doesn't matter which way around it goes? And to take the inner burr out how do you stop it turning - cant seem to get enough grip on the burr so do you wedge the sweep arms with something?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have found some on a Chinese website. They say airtight for tea/coffee storage. have bought a couple of sets so will report back once the grey slug delivery service has landed!


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

So far I got the best result set to 17 for the Europiccola, tried finer at 15 and the pull ended up at over a minute and temp went sky high.. think I'l go a tad coarser at 18-19 next.. anyone else got any settings for the Pav?


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

I got these months back in preparation: https://www.gardentrading.co.uk/home/kitchen/kitchen-storage/five-jar-spice-rack.htm

They're for sale all over the place on t'internet and in shops.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Are you guys leaving it plugged in permanently?
> 
> I.e. the red light on all the time?
> 
> Makes sense I just want to make sure it's designed to be that way and nothing is going to burn out etc


I haven't set mine up yet as I'm still at work, but is this the case that there is a light permanently on if the grinder is on at the wall?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Inglorious Alf said:


> I haven't set mine up yet as I'm still at work, but is this the case that there is a light permanently on if the grinder is on at the wall?


That's right, red light on all the time.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> That's right, red light on all the time.


Thanks. So what's the verdict, is it OK to leave on or should it be turned off?


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Inglorious Alf said:


> Thanks. So what's the verdict, is it OK to leave on or should it be turned off?


Would be more energy efficient to turn off though I doubt it'd burn much electric.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It runs a tiny Neon...just like some extension leads runs a tiny neon (not as tiny, but small). The rest of the circuitry isn't really doing anything (mainly a small bridge rectifier) as nothing is being drawn by the motor. Of course the guidance from Niche (as it must be) would be to turn it off when not at home and at night sort of thing. Me personally, I just leave it on at the wall.

Elecrtic use is negligible...


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

One minor whinge so far. The white dot on the adjustor fell out. I've pushed it back in for now but might try a tiny drop of superglue.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

So, I played for about an hour earlier, calibrated, dialled in and within 4 shots I had it making similar tasting shots to my Sette 270W. I'm currently using Square Miles Sweatshop beans and it's grinding around setting 20-22 to get me a 36g in around 30-35 secs. Very first grind 18g in gave me 17.2 out, every other grind since has only dropped by 0.1g which is amazing. Even the cup which I had reservations about is great, it sits inside my portafilter well and with a quick turn and tap every grind leaves the cup and then all that is required is a quick twist of my distribution tool and a tamp. Basically most of my impressions below will be comparisons to my Sette grinder, so here's some early comparisons.

The Niche is built much better than the Sette. It is much heavier and much more solid compared to the plasticky feel of the Sette.

Noise is light night and day, the Sette is horrendously loud, I always thought people didn't give it a fair shake but the Niche makes it seem even noisier as the Niche run so quietly.

Grind speed is much slower on the Niche, I just have to get use to doing other things whilst it is grinding, I am so use to prepping the portafilter before grinding that I am still in that habit.

The reason I love the Sette is because, with the built in scale it improved my workflow a lot. The Niche, because of its advertised low retention, was the only grinder I was prepared to switch to because I eventually expect to stop weighing the grinds as I will come to trust the amazingly low retention works every time therefore hopefully improving my workflow further and saving me coffee.

So far, it's lovely to just be able to pour in the beans, flick a switch and go. The Sette is great and I will always love that grinder but there is always a worry in the back of my mind that eventually one day it might fail. The Niche is so simple to use with so few parts I can't imagine having that worry.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> look nice, i had seen these
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dabixx-Airtight-Container-Storage-Size-01/dp/B07FKJYHW6/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1538745039&sr=8-17&keywords=bamboo%2Btubes&th=1


I just ordered two different sizes of these out of curiosity. Will report back.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Headgoboomboom said:


> I have a question regarding coarse grind. It seems that the grinds are still quite fine even on the coarse setting, and I have to rotate the adjustment another full rotation counter-clockwise to get a coarse grind to use with my Bunn Trifecta. Any other experiences with this?


Yes. Ignore the writing on the disk. It would've been better if they have just written "fine" and "coarse" and the respective arrows with some numbering. The espresso, drip, filter etc means nothing. And yes, I'd say that you would need at least 1.5 turns (or thereabouts) from your "zero" point for a V60 / filter grind.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Kyle T said:


> I just ordered two different sizes of these out of curiosity. Will report back.


I also just ordered these for £70 because........I liked the look of them.

https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-commercial/


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

This is what I use

https://www.tightvacukdirect.co.uk/Solid_Base_VitaVacs_-_006ltr20g/p1781886_8112839.aspx


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Are you guys leaving it plugged in permanently?
> 
> I.e. the red light on all the time?
> 
> Makes sense I just want to make sure it's designed to be that way and nothing is going to burn out etc


My first thought was you always can use a sort of smart plug. Since the Zero will not draw much current I think it would be safe (I have used about 16 of them for over a year for additional lighting with a RaspberryPi/RFX433/Domoticz/Homebridge/Homekit on the iPhones, but have seen some photo's of failed smart plugs for 2000W+ loads...). Don't know if it would be more energy efficient since the smart plug also uses energy. And after reading the other comments here I think I wouldn't even bother.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Kyle T said:


> I also just ordered these for £70 because........I liked the look of them.
> 
> https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-commercial/


How did you get it down to £70? They are $43.95 but the cheapest shipping I can see there is $137.56 making $181.51


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Zen got the better of me

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bamboo-Tube-Small-Empty-Bottles-Mini-Storage-Jar-For-Spices-Tea-Box-Container-With-Lid-Sample/32916605619.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.72534c4dAlBnsQ


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Zen got the better of me
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bamboo-Tube-Small-Empty-Bottles-Mini-Storage-Jar-For-Spices-Tea-Box-Container-With-Lid-Sample/32916605619.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.72534c4dAlBnsQ












I use these... about £4 on Amazon for 6 of them....


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Question........what solutions have people come up with for single dosing? By that, I mean you can buy those really expensive glasss tubes in a stand that you load up with your desired dose then simply tip in. I have seen some using test tubes. I have seen some nice Zen type bamboo holders, and some, like me at the mo, just weigh out and tip in. thoughts?


I used glass test tubes. Shattered one, stopped using them and now just weigh every time. Plastic ones (LWW?) or the bamboo ones you found might just be what I want.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Kyle T said:


> I also just ordered these for £70 because........I liked the look of them.
> 
> https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-commercial/


love the glass version of these too and that's what I'd pick if money was no object but at that price!!! Nope.

How the hell is shipping $255 !!!!

Inonly need 2 or 3 of them really. If you fancy selling a couple of your plastic ones, let me know...


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> How did you get it down to £70? They are $43.95 but the cheapest shipping I can see there is $137.56 making $181.51


If you click on calculate shipping and fill in the zip-code form the shipping options change and the price can come down. If you order two sets you get 5% discount as well.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

tohenk2 said:


> If you click on calculate shipping and fill in the zip-code form the shipping options change and the price can come down. If you order two sets you get 5% discount as well.


Still comes out at $133.30 which is over £100.....for 12 plastic tubes?


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

@DavecUK can't seem to access your review linked from indiegogo, getting website expired https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585125e4c534a5293ffe148f/t/59a982fd914e6b064d282133/1504281347865/Niche+zero+review.pdf

- and just to say a big thankyou for this review and all the insights and guidance you are now giving us as we get to grips with this little beauty!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I am sure the Niche Zero website has a link to it.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> I am sure the Niche Zero website has a link to it.


Ah there it is, thanks. https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Niche-zero-review.pdf


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> How did you get it down to £70? They are $43.95 but the cheapest shipping I can see there is $137.56 making $181.51


As someone mentioned above, I clicked the calculate shipping option and once I filled in my address details it have a DHL worldwide shipping option of $43


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## olivier (Jan 4, 2016)

Just received mine today, yay!

Bit of background: hadn't used my Gaggia Classic for a good couple of months (focused more on cold brew and V60 lately), but switched it back on to test the Niche Zero. I had only ever owned and used one grinder before: the Eureka Mignon.

First try with some fairly light roasted beans (Guji from Foundry Roasters) on setting 20 was way too fine... only a few drips after 20 secs. Adjusted the grind to 30, this time it went a bit too fast 19g in -> 40g out in barely 20s. Had to taste it nevertheless, and wow, even if it was on the sour side, the texture and clarity of taste was already better than what I'm used to with the Mignon. Dialed back the grind to 25-ish, and almost nailed it. Taste-wise, easily the best espresso I've ever pulled on my Classic!

I cannot compare the Niche to anything else, but what I am sure about is that yes, a grinder upgrade is a game-changer, and yes, the Gaggia Classic (with MrShades PID) is very very capable! I was considering switching to a much more expensive machine and never pulled the trigger because I could not really make up my mind between waiting for the Minima, going on the wait list for the DE1, or buying the Bianca. Now I'm glad I didn't purchase any of those, because I think it will take some time for me to really find the limits of the Classic. Well, apart from its limited ability when it comes to steaming milk.

My only concern for now with the grinder is the plastic cover. I can easily see myself breaking it one day. Without it, the grinder cannot work, and it's a custom part... Let's hope I'll never be that clumsy.

Thanks a lot to everyone involved with the project, and DavecUK for the review that convinced me to back it.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

I've been having a think about the wobble on the top nut and mount - pretty sure now this is part of the design to help agitate the beans into the burrs - sorry if someone has mentioned this before.


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## Hoggers (Oct 5, 2018)

Help...

For some reason I cannot get my grinder to go any finer than course sand amd despite calibrating and adjusting the grind as fine as i can the consistency does not change. In fact there is hardly any change from the setting on its finest to course.

I have checked to make sure there is nothing blocking the burrs but all good and i am at a loss as to what it could be.

All was working beautifully yesterday but today I just cannot get the grind fine enough for anything other than a pour over consistency.

If any one has any suggestions they will be greatly recieved.

Thanks all.

Alastair


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Hoggers said:


> Help...
> 
> For some reason I cannot get my grinder to go any finer than course sand amd despite calibrating and adjusting the grind as fine as i can the consistency does not change. In fact there is hardly any change from the setting on its finest to course.
> 
> ...


The Niche is so simple that it should be impossible for this to happen...in fact it's difficult to think of anything that could be causing it. Have you taken the burrs out? even if you have it's difficult to fit them incorrectly, or even to cross thread the adjustment ring. Or perhaps you have moved the calibration dial (black ring) and think you are at the finest point.

Or perhaps you have gone coarse and adjusted back finer without running the grinder for a few seconds every 10-15 marks. I do this by leaving the switch on and lowering the lid briefly after each movement finer. If you don't do this, any coffee between the burrs can make you think you can't go finer and if the black ring moved, you might think you are at the limit of adjustment.

*Remove the top grinding ring and take out the top burr only. Give it a really good clean and brush out the burrs, take a few nice photos of stuff, then pop the top burr back (remember there are 2 little springs under the locator arms for the top burr...*

Then turn the grinder as fine as it will go (don't run it), this is with light to medium finger pressure and once your fingers begin to slip that's it. Move the calibration ring to the calibration point. Then dial back about 10 marks. Run the grinder for a few seconds, switch off then turn the adjuster back and check the calibration point is still where you moved the black marker ring dot.

After this go back to the settings around the 18-22 mark and try grinding again.

P.S. To get the top burr out, put 1 finger (2 if you have small fingers) from each hand inside and pull outward then lift it out....don't drop it onto the burr below, or I will get upset







.


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## Hoggers (Oct 5, 2018)

Thanks Dave...

It turned out to be user error and I simply had not tightened the funnel enough so what felt finger tight was actually a few turns off.

Have adjusted, calibrated and now back in the ball park as to where I want to be so a few minor adjustments should get me there.

Thank you so much for your help and I agree it is such a simple grinder to use and adjust it had be thrown that it was so far off. I knew it had to be something simple.

Enjoy the weekend and I know I am going to be drinking way more coffee than is good for me over the next few days

Alastair


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

First try with the Vesuvius this morning. This is with different beans. The Hasbean SSSSH Thai beans. I left it on 22 and decided to try a flat 6 bar profile. The shot was way too fast and was reaching 36g from 18g in 15s or so, so I let it run to about 40g. Despite that it had a nice textured crema. It was on the under-extracted side of the taste spectrum but still very nice, especially once made into a flat white. I tried using the cup straight into the basket rather than my usual sifter and 3d printed funnel routine. It'll take me some practice to get it to land more evenly but my usual sideways shake and taps then vertical plane tap worked fine. Again it was apparent that once tapped it settles much lower in the basket which I think must be due to lack of static. This is with no water spray compared to me using that technique with the EK. I'll continue with this at home over the weekend then it'll have to go back to work. The good thing is it's easy to transport.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've been weighing in for a long time. I do it when I want to pull a shot. It doesn't take long and personally I'd dread the thought of standing there and weighing many doses of beans into small containers. I weigh the dose into one of these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I could remember that the one I use weighs 50.6g but use tare. They did come in a pack of 3 and IMHO are a bit small for pudding moulds. 4 now along with a price hike. Stainless so no washing or breakage problems.

Currently I use a bean scoop and a standard 250g bean can to keep the beans I am using in, rest of my order in the fridge. One day hopefully Bella Barista will have stock and send me one of the containers DaveC reviewed that expel air. Stainless again.







The bean can currently is useful though - I can tell that I put this order in the fridge too soon so need to revise the method I use a bit next time. Fridge when the taste is correct.

LOL This should have quoted DFK's weighing in question. My browser lost it some how.

John

-


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

^^^ wrong thread @ajohn ??


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Wrong forum, country, continent, planet, universe even?



MildredM said:


> ^^^ wrong thread @ajohn ??


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Whilst I eagerly/desperately wait for the arrival of mine, it would be great to see people's workflow or even just the Niche in action via video


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

@jonnycooper29 this is the best there is on the niche from the man who knows it best.....hope you haven't seen it all before


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

********** said:


> @jonnycooper29 this is the best there is on the niche from the man who knows it best.....hope you haven't seen it all before


Thank you! But I have seen these countless times


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> ^^^ wrong thread @ajohn ??


Doh so weighing in on one grinder is different to another?

John

-


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## Rscut (Aug 13, 2016)

I can't tell you how impressed I am with the Niche. My coffee journey is still in it's infancy, however this grinder has made a massive difference! I started off using....wait for it.... a James Martin grinder (blade), then a Mignon, then a Zenith. I have never managed to get consistency in the cup, however the Niche is a game changer for me. I have made 6 coffees so far and everyone has tasted pretty much the same! The Niche is definitely the way forward for home use!


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Thank you! But I have seen these countless times


Haven't we all, sorry but I don't know of anything better, hopefully you'll be a proud owner soon and you can gaze at the real macoy rather than a video


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Doh so weighing in on one grinder is different to another?
> 
> John
> 
> -


I honestly thought your post related to how you stored your beans and the Airscape thread . . .


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

ajohn said:


> I've been weighing in for a long time. I do it when I want to pull a shot. It doesn't take long and personally I'd dread the thought of standing there and weighing many doses of beans into small containers. I weigh the dose into one of these
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


It takes me only a couple of minutes to fill 9 glass tubes with beans, bearing in mind my previous routine with weighing in and out probably took only a little less than that for one shot, I don't mind "standing there and weighing many doses of beans into small containers" for the drastically reduced shot prep time and the convenience of only weighing what I get out into the cup.

Bearing in mind I am coming from a large conical dosered grinder the Niche and pre-weighing my beans is I think more than halfing the time it takes me to make a shot.

P.S. Found it much easier and quicker to measure the beans into a milk jug and then pour into the tubes.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

OK. CHC LSOL 3 ways... 16g into 38g (as close as I can get). 93˚C with 1st gear ramp up to line pressure until saturated then 2nd gear. No decline at end. Hitting roughly 30 to 40 seconds.

Easiest way to compare in the cup is as follows..

Niche = *Bass.* Fatter, rounder, fuller flavour

Versalab M3 = *Middle*. Brighter and more defined than the Niche

EK43 = *Treble*. Brightest/lightest/sweetest

Probably not the best description in terms of flavours, but it's my first impression of having three cups of espresso in front of me, and a glass of water to take inbetween sips to differentiate between them. Considering the M3 and EK are about 4 times as much (used price) as the Niche, it's not really a fair comparison. It's still punches way above it's price though.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm approaching my comparison with the EK slightly differently. Just dialling both in to how I like them and seeing if I prefer one over the other. I'm also comparing the workflow, static etc but it's far too early for me to comment on which I prefer in terms of taste. I might even blow the dust off the refractometer at some point but probably not this weekend as I'm about to go to a beer festival so tomorrow will no doubt be a write off. Plus I don't particularly enjoy experimenting with coffee all day long; it wastes too much.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

dan1502 said:


> I'm approaching my comparison with the EK slightly differently. Just dialling both in to how I like them and seeing if I prefer one over the other. I'm also comparing the workflow, static etc but it's far too early for me to comment on which I prefer in terms of taste. I might even blow the dust off the refractometer at some point but probably not this weekend as I'm about to go to a beer festival so tomorrow will no doubt be a write off. Plus I don't particularly enjoy experimenting with coffee all day long; it wastes too much.


I guestimnated my settings (threw the first EK shot as it was taking too long). Tried to get all three shots in a similar time. Would be interesting to see how they compare with a refractometer (as I don't own one) at similar EY.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

Well if I don't get around to it or can't be bothered I might consider a loan. I'm not sure how long I'll hang onto it to be honest. I don't use it much but it's something that's handy to have hence not having let it go. I should also add that I don't know how representative my EK is. It's got the old coffee burrs and I have sanded the stationary side but not completely got my head around how to do the rotating side and I won't attempt it until I'm certain what to do.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Niche First Notes

I'm using Pact House Espresso which I've been sticking with for months to make this comparison. I've upgraded the grinder from an Iberital MC2 and also swapped all baskets to VST at the same time. I'm also going straight to naked portafilter - no going back.

Pre-use notes - For the benefit of others and Niche.

The grind cup needs washing. It has fine metallic residue internally.

The finish around the red safety button is a bit rough (but not enough to annoy)

The grind cup is slightly dented and marked. For me, I don't mind. Others may be.

Pour notes - For the record, I have calibrated first.

Pour 1 - Grind setting 20

15.0g in -14.3g out

(added a few beans to get closer to 15g)

Levelling tool and tamp

15g VST Naked: 32g out in 23s

Some initial sprites and one pinhole

Verdict in milk - good flavour, but not spectacular. This missus could not tell any difference. Pour may be a bit hot.

Pour 2 - Grind setting 18

15.0g in 14.7g out

Levelling tool and tamp

15g VST Naked: 30g out in 28s

Perfect pour

Verdict in milk - a lot more body. I might get this by luck before. Pour still hot, will adjust and retry.

Pour 3 - Grind setting 17

15.0g in 15.0g out

Levelling tool and tamp

15g VST Naked: 30g out in 34s

See video for pour

Verdict in milk - yeah baby, we're getting somewhere.

Might still updose and back off the grind a touch.

General grinding slo-mo






Hope this works.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Rhys said:


> OK. CHC LSOL 3 ways... 16g into 38g (as close as I can get). 93˚C with 1st gear ramp up to line pressure until saturated then 2nd gear. No decline at end. Hitting roughly 30 to 40 seconds.
> 
> Easiest way to compare in the cup is as follows..
> 
> ...


Mighty interesting that the grinder with both conical & flat burrs has found it's way into the middle.


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Rhys said:


> OK. CHC LSOL 3 ways... 16g into 38g (as close as I can get). 93˚C with 1st gear ramp up to line pressure until saturated then 2nd gear. No decline at end. Hitting roughly 30 to 40 seconds.
> 
> Easiest way to compare in the cup is as follows..
> 
> ...


Grind 5.33g in each grinder and then combine in one shot. Enjoy full spectrum. ?


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Mighty interesting that the grinder with both conical & flat burrs has found it's way into the middle.


Yeah, he should have done his testing with earplugs in, a deaf test/comparison if you will.


----------



## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Viernes said:


> Grind 5.33g in each grinder and then combine in one shot. Enjoy full spectrum. 


Music, to my ears


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)




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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

You need more accurate scales, something that measures down to 0.01g


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## sanadsaad (Feb 24, 2018)

Kyle T said:


> I also just ordered these for £70 because........I liked the look of them.
> 
> https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-commercial/


Cheaper here i think:

https://mahlgut-manufaktur.de/en/product/lww-bean-cellars/

They also have the 3d print models for the funnel and the holder.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Think I will stick to my 0.72 glass jars from Lidl when they are empty


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

My wife made herself a coffee. It was good, very little guidance needed (beans already weighed). She was very impressed with the whole thing, high praise from a picky ex-high end kitchen designer and Design Technology teacher.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

Had a couple of days to use my Niche now, and don't have a lot to add from what others have already said; small footprint and looks great, very easy to calibrate and dial in (currently set to 19 for 18g/36g/31s), grind quality is excellent, retention is negligible, it's much quieter than my Vario, very easy to adjust, and my espresso tastes fuller and more consistent between shots than it did with the Vario.

I have noticed a little bit of static in the cup after first tipping the grinds out (inverting onto portafilter) but a tap releases them. It's nothing like as bad as what I used to get in the Vario grounds bin.

My workflow has been simplified due to the attached lid, single power switch and the cup (no need for my funnel anymore). It really is very easy. I am also FINALLY getting consecutive shots running in the same amount of time, something which I could never achieve with the Vario. All in all I'm very pleased, and really looking forward to getting to know it better.


----------



## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

sanadsaad said:


> Cheaper here i think:
> 
> https://mahlgut-manufaktur.de/en/product/lww-bean-cellars/
> 
> They also have the 3d print models for the funnel and the holder.


Christ some of you lot have more money than sense. ?

There's me thinking I've pushed the boundaries of excess for paying 12 quid to save a few seconds weighing in each shot. They look a lot less clinical though.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0752VKP85/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Robbo said:


> Christ some of you lot have more money than sense. ?
> 
> There's me thinking I've pushed the boundaries of excess for paying 12 quid to save a few seconds weighing in each shot. They look a lot less clinical though.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0752VKP85/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Tell me about it. We've all just spent £350+ on a bloody coffee grinder and are 13 pages in to harping on about its value for money!

Now those jars do look like a sensible option and would get me making 5 shots as quickly as the machine can pump them out but somehow my coffee corner looks even more cluttered than usual so until I can commandeer a drawer for the rest of it I don't think I can buy any more gear!


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

LukeT said:


> Tell me about it. We've all just spent £350+ on a bloody coffee grinder and are 13 pages in to harping on about its value for money.
> 
> Now those jars do look like a sensible option and would get me making 5 shots as quickly as the machine can pump them out but somehow my coffee corner looks even more cluttered than usual so until I can commandeer a drawer for the rest of it I don't think I can buy any more gear!


I was talking to a mate and said that I got a new grinder - he previously found it amusing that I need to "calibrate the grinder" (i.e. dial in) for every different bag of coffee I get! He asked my how much I paid and he was... mildly shocked.

I think of coffee gear as one of the best thing to spend money on. It's something that gets used daily and brings me joy. Unlike a gaming rig (£1000+) he got that would not be much joy for me.

It's a hobby after all and we like chasing marginal gains and joys


----------



## hifimacianer (Sep 27, 2018)

Regarding the usage for pour over: the guys from Goat Story (makers of the Gina Coffeemaker -> @goat_story on Instagram), use a Niche grinder since a few days. They seem pretty impressed with it. They actually use the Niche as their Grinder at the Lubiljana coffee festival. So it seems that Niche is also great for coarser grinds.


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

I'm in the same boat here! I'm in my early twenties, worked hard and landed myself a good job, so I get the luxury of buying nice things that bring me joy- in this case a shiny new coffee grinder!

Some of my colleagues that are of a similar age think I am absolutely mad and don't know how I can afford it due to how much they spend on beer even though they earn the same (I rarely drink alcohol- I got bored of it after uni), I on the other hand can't think of much else I'd rather spend it on..but each to their own I guess!

Most of my family think I'm mad too..


----------



## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

One question for other white owners....

My grinder evidently rattled its way to Australia and where the front lid magnet has rubbed the paint it has been damaged. Has anyone else has this issue too?


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Mine was the same. The bit of paint rubbed off easily. However, the index marker fell off. I've re-inserted it but might add a spot of superflue to retain it.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Looks like a few QC issues for Niche to sort out


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Rhys said:


> Easiest way to compare in the cup is as follows..
> 
> Niche = *Bass.* Fatter, rounder, fuller flavour
> 
> ...


 @Rhys spot on. I'd probably describe the difference between conical and flats in a similar speaker comparison.

From my experience Conicals are more boomier ( big bass like a set of old school Missions).

Flats have more defined mid ranges and less bass.

It's all down to personal taste in what floats your boat.

Niche seems to have taken out one of the major draw backs of conicals i.e. retention.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Currently I use a bean scoop and a standard 250g bean can to keep the beans I am using in, rest of my order in the fridge. One day hopefully Bella Barista will have stock and send me one of the containers DaveC reviewed that expel air. Stainless again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do keep beans in the fridge? Do you get any issues with moisture?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

There is so much nonsense talked about bean storage. Why on earth would you put them in the fridge? Just keep the bag as airtight as you think necessary in a dark place. I buy kilo bags that currently last 2 weeks heading towards three and I never have an issue with them going stale. If they did, I would buy smaller bags!


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

timmyjj21 said:


> One question for other white owners....
> 
> My grinder evidently rattled its way to Australia and where the front lid magnet has rubbed the paint it has been damaged. Has anyone else has this issue too?


Mine's similar. Would've been better I think if the magnet was recessed by 1mm. The safety switch engages a few mm before fully closed anyway.


----------



## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

And my last QC niggle.... the pinhole in the wood where the drill tip had gone a bit too far.

Im really happy with the quality overall, I'm just picky









Im really sad that it's been several days and I haven't even had the chance use it yet! Reading all the rave reviews after work while it sits on the floor!


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Two questions:

1. How does the Niche measure up against the K30 purely on grind quality? Any experiences of taste in the cup?

2. How is the Sage DTP pairing up with the Niche?


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

M_H_S said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. How does the Niche measure up against the K30 purely on grind quality? Any experiences of taste in the cup?
> 
> 2. How is the Sage DTP pairing up with the Niche?


2. I'm really enjoying it on the DTP, dialing 2 different beans in has seemed to end up with 50 second shots for the tastiest results. Taste wise I would put it at about the same as my K10, with the caveat that I am actually drinking nicer shots from the Niche as it is easier to dial in and doesn't waste as much coffee getting there.

I am using a portafilter funnel and this works well with the grind cup, not sure how well it would work with the DTP's portafilter otherwise.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Early days but initial impressions are very good.

I ran a few shots worth of gash Aldi Peruvian beans through the Niche then on to 18g of Mystery 9.

Retention is repeatably negligible so I'm not even bothering weighing out any more - what's the point?

I'm getting a small amount of static in the grind cup which I don't get with the E92. It might be the cup itself so I'll test with the cup I was using before to discount that theory.

Dialed in to setting 22 which give 18g to 42g in 37s. A nice, full bodied shot very much on par with the E92 taste-wise. The 'big conical' flavour is definately there!

The only thing I will say, is that the best tasting espresso I had out of the E92 was with a hopper full of beans, and I've only even done that once during a party. But single dosing we're comparing apples with apples here and as such there isn't much in it.

I'm really liking the work flow!

I had to stand in front of the E92 and do 30 seconds of 'puffing' to get all the grinds out (and even then I had to dose 19g to be sure I would get 18g out). Now I just throw the beans in to the Niche, set it going, then go off and do something else.

Same quality of pour as with the E92 - spot on!

Overall, living with the Niche is where it scores - easy, no fuss, and consistent,

Not bad for a little grinder costing £2k less than the one it's proudly sitting next to.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Exactly what I found with the Niche vs my E92....my conclusion, either the Niche is damn good or the E92 is a very poor grinder.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

So any Mahlkonig k30 owners who have upgraded?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

A single drop of water on the beans can stop static, I have had to use this with my Mono at times, it came shipped with a small water spray bottle. Would it hurt to use the same with the Niche?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MildredM said:


> A single drop of water on the beans can stop static, I have had to use this with my Mono at times, it came shipped with a small water spray bottle. Would it hurt to use the same with the Niche?


Agree I may have to.

But I didn't need to before with Ceado.

Its kinda faff free at present and it would be a shame to add another layer into the workflow.


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

lake_m said:


> Agree I may have to.
> 
> But I didn't need to before with Ceado.
> 
> Its kinda faff free at present and it would be a shame to add another layer into the workflow.


I get a tiny amount left in the cup too, but it is not an amount measurable on my 0.1g scale so have mostly been ignoring.


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

M_H_S said:


> So any Mahlkonig k30 owners who have upgraded?


By all accounts it's a great grinder and I don't have mine yet, but I'll be very surprised if it's an upgrade when compared to a K30. More convenient and home friendly maybe, but not in any other aspect surely.


----------



## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I've always used a spray but haven't had to with the Niche. Dave did suggest it might not be wise to add water but I'm not sure he gave a reason. Are you using the tumbler that comes with it? I am. My home scales only go to one decimal place but I got 18.0 in and out this morning.


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Dayks said:


> I get a tiny amount left in the cup too, but it is not an amount measurable on my 0.1g scale so have mostly been ignoring.


I think you're very right here. We do tend to get carried away with thinks on this forum. Even if you was to more than double that to .2 grams I doubt there's anybody alive who could perceive the difference.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

It's not the retention aspect that's the issue, as you say it's irrelevant - it's just a bit messier to clean up.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dan1502 said:


> I've always used a spray but haven't had to with the Niche. Dave did suggest it might not be wise to add water but I'm not sure he gave a reason. Are you using the tumbler that comes with it? I am. My home scales only go to one decimal place but I got 18.0 in and out this morning.


The cling on the cup can be eliminated by tapping on the bottom when it is in the portafilter....if that doesn't do it, then after removal a tap of the base on the counter-top (on a suitable cloth or softer surface) will dislodge any coffee, which can be tipped into the PF if desired...there is only around 0.01g if that in the cup. It's a real non issue and one thing people should do is ensure they washed the grinds cup before use. I used to stress about the tiny bit of coffee in the steel grinds cup, but now I simply dose to 18.05g for 18.00 grams out. *This is what I have found happens when grinding, which leads to the techniques I use.*

*
*

1. *18.05g in* (whoah I said 18.5g in, totally meant 18.05, someone pointed out my massive error, because I am so used to working in 100ths of a gram now







)

2. 18.01 to 18.06g out, usually tends to 18.01g

3. put coffee in portafilter, slap/tap bottom of cup whist inverted

4. Place cup back on grinder. Some time later 5m-1hr, who knows, little bit of coffee falls out of grinder

5. Ready for new shot remove cup from grinder, look inside, little bit of coffee weighs perhaps the 0.03 or so grams I lost last grind, tap cup on counter (with a cloth on counter), tamping mat, hand whatever...tip out the tiny tiny bit of coffee. and then proceed as normal

In reality it's as simple as weigh out 0.05g more than you need, grind, use, empty any in the cup next time you go to grind....and enjoy, don't overcomplicate your workflow. *Using water to spray the coffee will affect chamber clearance inside the grinder (make things stick more) and over time affect the way coffee builds up. I totally don't recommend it.*



*
*P.S. We are talking about 0.03-0.07g amounts of coffee here, be realistic even if it was (shock horror) 0.1 or a massive 0.2g (just over 1 coffee bean), you will never taste it.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Thinking about it a bit more (!) the slight static issue went away with the Monolith. I wonder if the charge kind of builds up in transit, if there's polystyrene involved, plastic bags etc and movement then could that cause a little static build up?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

cold war kid said:


> By all accounts it's a great grinder and I don't have mine yet, but I'll be very surprised if it's an upgrade when compared to a K30. More convenient and home friendly maybe, but not in any other aspect surely.


It is a different flavour profile. You may or may not prefer the conical taste, but that does not make it better or worse


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

I was thinking more of general things like durability and build quality. With the K30 being a £2000 commercial grinder I wouldn't have thought many people would consider the Niche to be an upgrade, all things considered.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

cold war kid said:


> I was thinking more of general things like durability and build quality. With the K30 being a £2000 commercial grinder I wouldn't have thought many people would consider the Niche to be an upgrade, all things considered.


I don't think 'upgrade' from a commercial machine is the correct terminology in this case.

It's a different beast entirely.

It will either suit you or it won't depending whether you are in a commercial environment or not.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lake_m said:


> I don't think 'upgrade' from a commercial machine is the correct terminology in this case.
> 
> It's a different beast entirely.
> 
> It will either suit you or it won't depending whether you are in a commercial environment or not.


I agree it's how upgrade is being used.

A tank in a battlefield is an upgrade from a BMW 5 series, on the road a BMW 5 series is an upgrade from a tank. A tank costs more than a 5 series, but it's what you need in one environment and performs well to that requirement, on the road, things are different. It's not about how much you spend. before anyone says these are tanks not grinders and the grind quality blah blah....it's just to illustrate that in different environments different issues are important.

*Commercial grinders* need to be fast, reliable, easy to use in the retail environment taking 3 or 4 years of abuse because it's in a work environment. Quality and gram perfect weights to 0.03g are not an overriding factor. They are rarely adjusted and have the burrs changed every 8 months or so. They are built according to this requirement (mostly).

Home grinders - are carefully used and judging by the average coffee forum persons intake (stated when selling machines), is around 100 - 200 times less than the average commercial grinder. Quality and accuracy are critical rather than speed and reliability over 100K-300K shots., The Niche will be lucky to see 1 burr change in 20 or 30 years with most peoples usage, even at 1kg per week, you won't need to change them for almost 15 years. I have already done more shots in one of these grinders (US Model) than most people will do in 3 or 4 years. The needs of the home user are totally different to the average commercial grinder user.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

As I recently have had a stone in the hopper, I am curious as to whether replacement burrs will be available and if so, what cost would it be?

I am not sure if Mazzer burrs would just work or they need some modification to fit them in?

Single dosing should make it easier to catch any foreign objects, but there's still a chance. I thought I was thorough with the bean checking when pouring beans in the hopper, but I obviously missed it.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

PPapa said:


> As I recently have had a stone in the hopper, I am curious as to whether replacement burrs will be available and if so, what cost would it be?
> 
> I am not sure if Mazzer burrs would just work or they need some modification to fit them in?
> 
> Single dosing should make it easier to catch any foreign objects, but there's still a chance. I thought I was thorough with the bean checking when pouring beans in the hopper, but I obviously missed it.


If you take the top burr out is says Mazzer on it. I'm guessing you just buy another set of Mazzer Kony burrs.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Rhys said:


> If you take the top burr out is says Mazzer on it. I'm guessing you just buy another set of Mazzer Kony burrs.


Fair enough! I wasn't sure if they are somewhat custom made or modified to fit in.

MBK grinders use Italmill burrs, but I'm fairly sure they are custom made as they have that straight side on the outer burr for the nut to hold the burr in place.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not sure if they are exactly the same burrs as a Kony, but I remember somewhere that Dave said the Kony burrs would drop straight in as a replacement.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

If they aren't exactly the same, someone with too much money on Home Barista will change them as an "upgrade" very soon. If you think we stress over small details that don't really matter you need to check out that website. We're amateurs. There's some really nice and helpful people though.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I agree it's how upgrade is being used.
> 
> A tank in a battlefield is an upgrade from a BMW 5 series, on the road a BMW 5 series is an upgrade from a tank. A tank costs more than a 5 series, but it's what you need in one environment and performs well to that requirement, on the road, things are different. It's not about how much you spend. before anyone says these are tanks not grinders and the grind quality blah blah....it's just to illustrate that in different environments different issues are important.
> 
> ...


Really helpful and great breakdown. I would have guessed as much though whereas my original question regarding K30 vs Niche was purely of taste in the cup if anyone has any first hand experience.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

PPapa said:


> As I recently have had a stone in the hopper, I am curious as to whether replacement burrs will be available and if so, what cost would it be?
> 
> I am not sure if Mazzer burrs would just work or they need some modification to fit them in?
> 
> Single dosing should make it easier to catch any foreign objects, but there's still a chance. I thought I was thorough with the bean checking when pouring beans in the hopper, but I obviously missed it.


DaveC here, I'm on a friends computer. They are 63mm Mazzer Kony burrs, totally standard Kony burrs....nothing different about them. Before you go changing them, post up a photo of the burrs, they may not be damaged, or sufficiently damaged to make a difference. The design of the Niche is such to reduce potential for damage from such events.

P.S. Remember kids always check for stones, it's as bad as stranger danger.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't drink, gamble or do drugs. I have a few expensive hobbies. This is one of them


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## GaryG (Mar 1, 2013)

Everyone seems to be around 20-22 on setting for espresso

I've only pulled A few shots but I'm already

at 12 trying to dial in on a Rancilio Silvia.

18g in 18g vst basket

36g out in 30 seconds.

Shots still a bit sour for my liking.

Anyone else dial this low reading????

I have calibrated it and seem to be in the right position.


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

GaryG said:


> Everyone seems to be around 20-22 on setting for espresso
> 
> I've only pulled A few shots but I'm already
> 
> ...


I'm at 16 currently, I also calibrated mine.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

GaryG said:


> Everyone seems to be around 20-22 on setting for espresso
> 
> I've only pulled A few shots but I'm already
> 
> ...


I was at 18 with beans from Pact. I'm now at 13 with beans from Roundhill.

Both are 15g doses in a 15g VST.

On a side note... I'm just really happy to have multiple beans on the go... because I can


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

GaryG said:


> Everyone seems to be around 20-22 on setting for espresso
> 
> I've only pulled A few shots but I'm already
> 
> ...


I'm guessing it's what each individual considers hand tight. I could get the dot around to the calibration mark from the get go but I thought it was more than hand tight so I followed the manual to recalibrate.


----------



## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

GaryG said:


> Everyone seems to be around 20-22 on setting for espresso
> 
> I've only pulled A few shots but I'm already
> 
> ...


I'm at 13. 15g into a vst. Running at 8 bar through my duetto.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Has anyone tried for V60 or Kalita Wave? I just did a few grinds and looked at what I am currently using through the Hausgrind / Feldgrind and it seems that I'm past the scale markings. I think the dot is at the first hinge on the left.

Next week I'm going to put some grinds through the Kruve sieves to get equivalent grinds for V60, Kalita and French Press and see where on the dial I need to be.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I'm going to state obvious, but...

It's an amazing experience just to swap out beans. I've got now 3 different beans dialled in. It would have taken me 3 weeks to experiment with 3 different bags whereas now I can choose whatever I feel like!


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Haven't pulled any shots yet as I don't want to be awake all night but finally unboxed mine and had a bit of a play. It seems to do as promised on first glance, after first few shots through the consistency between weight in/out is excellent. It's quiet, looks good and scores highly on the WAF scale which is always good.

Currently i I don't like the grind cup but hopefully I'll get used to using it and all will be good. First drinking shots tomorrow so I'm looking forward to that and will report back.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

GingerBen said:


> Currently i I don't like the grind cup but hopefully I'll get used to using it and all will be good. First drinking shots tomorrow so I'm looking forward to that and will report back.


It's better than dosing directly into the pf in my opinion, and fits a 58mm basket perfectly. Solves distribution as you just give it a good shake. A lot less mess as well than some other grinders. You can weigh your beans into it also. But if you don't like it, I could do with a spare for my EK


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rhys said:


> It's better than dosing directly into the pf in my opinion, and fits a 58mm basket perfectly. Solves distribution as you just give it a good shake. A lot less mess as well than some other grinders. You can weigh your beans into it also. But if you don't like it, I could do with a spare for my EK


I didn't like the cup idea at first, even said so in my review/videos, but I do like it now I am used to it.


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Rhys said:


> It's better than dosing directly into the pf in my opinion, and fits a 58mm basket perfectly. Solves distribution as you just give it a good shake. A lot less mess as well than some other grinders. You can weigh your beans into it also. But if you don't like it, I could do with a spare for my EK


not compared to the Mythos it isn't but I'm sure I will improve my technique as I use it more. Think I'll hold on to it for now


----------



## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I didn't like the cup idea at first, even said so in my review/videos, but I do like it now I am used to it.


Think I have to agree with this, it is a good solution to dump the grinder output into a tidy pile in the PF. I have done this for the last four five years with the Hausgrind, which also sits perfectly in the PF. But somehow still feels there are more actions/movements than should be necessary.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

GingerBen said:


> not compared to the Mythos it isn't but I'm sure I will improve my technique as I use it more. Think I'll hold on to it for now


I will be running a Niche alongside a used mythos which cost the same as the Niche and an ek which cost considerably more. I will post up my independent thoughts over the next week or so, Warts and all


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

GaryG said:


> Everyone seems to be around 20-22 on setting for espresso
> 
> I've only pulled A few shots but I'm already
> 
> ...


13-15 so far for me after calibrating. On a couple of different beans.


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> I will be running a Niche alongside a used mythos which cost the same as the Niche and an ek which cost considerably more. I will post up my independent thoughts over the next week or so, Warts and all


be interesting to see what you think. I can't fault the output of the Mythos but I don't like the size, wastage and dialling it in. If the niche performs well it's going to be hard to know which to keep as one will need to go.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Can someone help please...

Got my Niche out the box today. I fixed the calibration mark at the dot after finger tightening the funnel, then rotated the marker anti-clockwise to espresso setting. I got a kind of screeching sound like the grinder was too tight, it was also slowing and struggling to move. I then loosened more so the reading was on 30 and it was still struggling? So I then loosened the funnel slightly and it was better but I'm having trouble getting the dot within the espresso range (for espresso) and tightening the funnel enough so that it doesn't move when I change grind setting.

If I tighten the funnel finger tight, the grinder starts slowing etc and making a weird noise like it's too tight, if I loosen it to stop it struggling I'm then having trouble making grind adjustments without the funnel moving with it??

No matter what I try, I can't get the grind setting in the espresso range unless I have the funnel loose and then I can make any adjustments without the funnel moving.


----------



## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

From an outsider looking in at all this, I understand the zero retention benefit of the niche but how does the grind compare to say a Mazzer SJ? (that's what I have).


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Can someone help please...
> 
> Got my Niche out the box today. I fixed the calibration mark at the dot after finger tightening the funnel, then rotated the marker anti-clockwise to espresso setting. I got a kind of screeching sound like the grinder was too tight, it was also slowing and struggling to move. I then loosened more so the reading was on 30 and it was still struggling? So I then loosened the funnel slightly and it was better but I'm having trouble getting the dot within the espresso range (for espresso) and tightening the funnel enough so that it doesn't move when I change grind setting.
> 
> If I tighten the funnel finger tight, the grinder starts slowing etc and making a weird noise like it's too tight, if I loosen it to stop it struggling I'm then having trouble making grind adjustments without the funnel moving with it??


It really sounds like you moved the burrs finer using the silver funnel rim, so the burrs are touching. Then moved the white dot on.the marker ring to the calibration mark. Now comes my guess....you then moved the black marker ring only to get the white dot in the espresso range.

Unfortunately this leaves the burrs touching as it's the silver funnel that moves the burrs, the black ring should simply move with it.

I was actually wondering whether to do an ABC video for a few days now.


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Can someone help please...
> 
> Got my Niche out the box today. I fixed the calibration mark at the dot after finger tightening the funnel, then rotated the marker anti-clockwise to espresso setting. I got a kind of screeching sound like the grinder was too tight, it was also slowing and struggling to move. I then loosened more so the reading was on 30 and it was still struggling? So I then loosened the funnel slightly and it was better but I'm having trouble getting the dot within the espresso range (for espresso) and tightening the funnel enough so that it doesn't move when I change grind setting.
> 
> If I tighten the funnel finger tight, the grinder starts slowing etc and making a weird noise like it's too tight, if I loosen it to stop it struggling I'm then having trouble making grind adjustments without the funnel moving with it??


I'm confused, are you running it when it is finger tight? As you really shouldn't.

Are you sure you aren't moving the guide rather than the throat?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> It really sounds like you moved the burrs finer using the silver funnel rim, so the burrs are touching. Then moved the white dot on.the marker ring to the calibration mark. Now comes my guess....you then moved the black marker ring only to get the white dot in the espresso range.
> 
> Unfortunately this leaves the burrs touching as it's the silver funnel that moves the burrs, the black ring should simply move with it.
> 
> I was actually wondering whether to do an ABC video for a few days now.


Okay Dave. Yes I set to calibration then moved just the black marker ring back to espresso. Should I be moving the funnel and the black marker ring simultaneously back to espresso?

Doh!!!! The penny just dropped...


----------



## ZappyAd (Jul 19, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> I will be running a Niche alongside a used mythos which cost the same as the Niche and an ek which cost considerably more. I will post up my independent thoughts over the next week or so, Warts and all


Looking forward to this - will be good to hear some more comparisons


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Okay Dave. Yes I set to calibration then moved just the black marker ring back to espresso. Should I be moving the funnel and the black marker ring simultaneously back to espresso?


Yes, get the funnel finger tight, move black ring so white dot in line with calibration mark. Then only touch and move funnel ring, black one will move with it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

How are people finding using the grinding cup with portafilter baskets smaller than 58mm?

I have a La Pav and the transfer process is not as straight forward as I'd like.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Yes, get the funnel finger tight, move black ring so white dot in line with calibration mark. Then only touch and move funnel ring, black one will move with it.


Got it Dave.

FYI and as I'm sure you was suspecting, I was being a dick!









I was going by sone earlier instructions from this thread and understood it wrong.


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How are people finding using the grinding cup with portafilter baskets smaller than 58mm?
> 
> I have a La Pav and the transfer process is not as straight forward as I'd like.


Using the below funnel with the sage (54mm) works well. Not tried without as I suspect it could be messy.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Coffee-Grinder-Dosing-Funnel-54-Mm-Coffee-Catcha-Catcher/16015348803

Edit - looks like they sell in 51 and 49 mm as well.


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How are people finding using the grinding cup with portafilter baskets smaller than 58mm?
> 
> I have a La Pav and the transfer process is not as straight forward as I'd like.


Im still using the 53mm funnel I was using before with the E92. I think there is someone on eBay doing 51mm ones - about £10.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How are people finding using the grinding cup with portafilter baskets smaller than 58mm?
> 
> I have a La Pav and the transfer process is not as straight forward as I'd like.


I'm transferring the grounds using a yoghurt pot as a dosing funnel. So inverting the PF with yoghurt pot over the cup. Then turning upside down. Give it a tap and carry on as normal.


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Dayks said:


> Using the below funnel with the sage (54mm) works well. Not tried without as I suspect it could be messy.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Coffee-Grinder-Dosing-Funnel-54-Mm-Coffee-Catcha-Catcher/16015348803
> 
> Edit - looks like they sell in 51 and 49 mm as well.


Thats it! They do them in 51mm too.


----------



## olivier (Jan 4, 2016)

Stevebee said:


> Has anyone tried for V60 or Kalita Wave? I just did a few grinds and looked at what I am currently using through the Hausgrind / Feldgrind and it seems that I'm past the scale markings. I think the dot is at the first hinge on the left.
> 
> Next week I'm going to put some grinds through the Kruve sieves to get equivalent grinds for V60, Kalita and French Press and see where on the dial I need to be.


Tried v60 this morning, took almost a whole turn anticlockwise from my espresso setting.


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Suspect that as and when the right diameter cup turns up that'll be the answer for different sized PFs over any funnel, no matter what the cup's made of or where it comes from.

However I certainly haven't perfected my technique yet. I get channelling more frequently than I should with the cup into a 58mm PF, levelling and tamping. Is it all about the shake? Is @DaveC the new Tom Cruise?






Any help much appreciated. I've just been upending it, levelling and tamping so will get a shake on and maybe also reintroduce the whisk. Not to say my quality hasn't already improved in taste terms, I just think I have a little way to go looking at my naked PF.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are getting channelling, cheat and stop using a naked until you become more proficcient!


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> If you are getting channelling, cheat and stop using a naked until you become more proficcient!


Can't do that! I need to know if it's not right...


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

LukeT said:


> Can't do that! I need to know if it's not right...


Its what I do.....I can usually make a decent cuppa from anything but have struggled with my current bean on a naked. not channeling exactly but not pouring right. Sometimes it just happens so I swop back to a single. Naked were only ever used as a means of testing for baristas but now somehow they are considered the norm


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Its what I do.....I can usually make a decent cuppa from anything but have struggled with my current bean on a naked. not channeling exactly but not pouring right. Sometimes it just happens so I swop back to a single. Naked were only ever used as a means of testing for baristas but now somehow they are considered the norm


Fair enough, but I guess I'm also "testing" too. That and lacking room for both spout and scale.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I was actually wondering whether to do an ABC video for a few days now.


Definitely wouldn't say no to that!


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

I go naked. I get some channeling sometimes but it's always at the start of the pour until it settles into a single stream. For the first part, I hold the cup up so it covers the PF. That way any squirts etc go into the cup. When it joins to a single pour, I then lower it onto the scale so I can measure the weight and stop the extraction when required.

Another reason I prefer going naked is I find it a lot easier to clean than it is when using the spouted PF.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I've not had any channelling or spritzing from the Niche yet. Maybe it's just down to technique?


----------



## Hoggers (Oct 5, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How are people finding using the grinding cup with portafilter baskets smaller than 58mm?
> 
> I have a La Pav and the transfer process is not as straight forward as I'd like.


A messy job.

I also have a smaller than normal basket for my Izzo Lever and am in the process of looking for a 55mm cup. They seem to be hard to come by so choice seems to be a 'coffee catcha' type thing or look to getting a cup machined up - I would use the existing cup as a guide and just reduce the diameter to fit.

Till then... a stead hand


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

First shot this morning choked on 18. Went to 20 and pulled a good looking and more importantly tasty shot from Atkinson's 'stereotype' beans which I've been drinking for a couple of weeks so know them fairly well. Need to do a side by side with the Mythos but first impressions are good. Can't say it tastes particularly different. Need to do a blind side by side to see what difference there might be. Will try that later when I've got more time.


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

The more I read about calibration the more confused I am. Still waiting for delivery to Poland, but if someone would be so kind to make a video how to calibrate the Niche, I am sure it will be very helpful for future users.


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jan 31, 2017)

Got mine today too.

After calibration I'm around 32? Which seems quite different from everyone else.

Pretty happy with it so far, but need to have a play with the bottomless to see!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

pj.walczak said:


> The more I read about calibration the more confused I am. Still waiting for delivery to Poland, but if someone would be so kind to make a video how to calibrate the Niche, I am sure it will be very helpful for future users.


As far as I understand, calibration doesn't do anything to the burrs. It only align the "calibration" mark with the white dot on the collar, so you know roughly where "zero" is. Granted, it would allow us to roughly talk about which setting we use, but given the variables (pressure, machine, basket, dose, coffee, humidity, temperature, etc) I'm not sure if there's much point.

A video by someone who understands however, would at least ensure that the procedure of calibration is performed correctly.

I'm on setting 22 for 15g on some fancy Kenyan coffee, roasted in Sweden, given to me as a present, with my Pavoni. I didn't re-calibrate, as it seemed to be all good from the factory.


----------



## cotag (Aug 13, 2017)

I am wondering if the grinder retains the calibration after cleaning, or it needs to be recalibrated each time? Mine is still in the "contribution locked" status, hence the confusion.


----------



## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I go naked. I get some channeling sometimes but it's always at the start of the pour until it settles into a single stream. For the first part, I hold the cup up so it covers the PF. That way any squirts etc go into the cup. When it joins to a single pour, I then lower it onto the scale so I can measure the weight and stop the extraction when required.
> 
> Another reason I prefer going naked is I find it a lot easier to clean than it is when using the spouted PF.


I know what you mean, I had some very uneven extractions, not so much channeling but like it was missing the centre of the puck. I was literally just grinding, dumping and leveling which I think left grinds slightly more concentrated in centre of basket. Just a couple of shakes when transferring solved it.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Rhys said:


> I've not had any channelling or spritzing from the Niche yet. Maybe it's just down to technique?


Ive not had anything near spritzing - and everything is coming out in lovely big tiger-stripped blobs of espresso porn...... plus pucks are so much better looking afterwards - dryer and more uniform.

I'm not however getting many single mouse-tails so I assume I'm getting a little channelling even though it's impossible to tell from the puck.

Im certain it's my distribution so I'll keep trying stuff - read on here about shaking the cup though I get a sense it's the way it transfers from cup to pf

looking forward to videos those who have nailed it.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Got mine today too.
> 
> After calibration I'm around 32? Which seems quite different from everyone else.


From the photo it looks like you have it at 17?

If this was before calibration, you ideally need to ensure no trapped coffee between the burrs before calibrating. In fact my preference would be to do calibration after brushing the burrs down rather than running the grinder to ensure it's clear when the burrs might be actually touching.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Okay, first shot this morning was good although first with the new beans from Foundry, Gugi Highland. 18g in and 35g out in 40secs and tasted bitter so need to go a bit coarser.

Btw, 18.00g in and 17.95g out which is awesome!

One thing I done differently from last night though, was after shaking the cup a little after it was ground. Then transferred to PF, moved it around with my finger a little followed by using the distribution OCD like thingy, and then tamp. started with a slow 2 streams and after the 10sec PI stage (DTP) it came together in a lovely single tiger stream.

Also had a nice dry and uniform puck, which is impressive seeing as my DTP has no 3 way solenoid.


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jan 31, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> From the photo it looks like you have it at 17?
> 
> If this was before calibration, you ideally need to ensure no trapped coffee between the burrs before calibrating. In fact my preference would be to do calibration after brushing the burrs down rather than running the grinder to ensure it's clear when the burrs might be actually touching.


That pic was before calibration.

When I calibrated it, it was before running any coffee (ie. straight out of box)


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Got mine today too.
> 
> After calibration I'm around 32? Which seems quite different from everyone else.
> 
> Pretty happy with it so far, but need to have a play with the bottomless to see!


 What's your coffee and dose?


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jan 31, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> What's your coffee and dose?


Kenyan SO (Aussie roaster), 18g.


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

thebookfreak58 said:


> That pic was before calibration.
> 
> When I calibrated it, it was before running any coffee (ie. straight out of box)


If your setting has went up I can only imagine you did it wrong.

It sounds like you moved the black guide to the calibration mark from the initial setting instead of tightening the silver throat to touch tight and then moving the black guide to the calibration mark.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

After calibrating (finger tight only) most of my coffees for espresso are 18-22. Older the coffee the finer the grind.

For the Kalita I normally use a slightly coarser than V60 grind which is 2+2 on the Feldgrind, approx 860microns via the Kruve sieves. Tried to replicate this grind on the Niche. When the white dot points at the screw in the middle of the lid hinge grind looks about right and had virtually the same split when put through the sieves.

I only wish the numbers went all the way round as it would be easier to say a number rather than which screw I'm aligned with!


----------



## thebookfreak58 (Jan 31, 2017)

Did it again and now at 21. All good









This grinder is really good for home, my old K10 was super fast and a beast, but totally overkill and unwieldily for home use.

Niche really ticks all the boxes for home use IMO. Fit and finish could be a little refined, but for the price it's more than a bargain. Very happy!


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Just run 18g of this month's SSSSS from Has Bean through without making any changes to the settings. Took about 20 seconds to get going but the gloop factor was off the scale. Just letting it cool before trying it out. suspect a couple of notches coarser might be needed as overall shot took 47 seconds to pull 18:36. If it tastes good I don't care about the time but I suspect coarser might be better.

Edit - tasted pretty good but the boozy notes were a bit muted. I'll go between 1 and 2 numbers coarser next time and see what difference that makes.


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Zwanger said:


> Things to know about grinders. The conical burrs give a different particle size distribution and o totaly different particle geometry. The best results using a conical grinder (as i am using robur+ kony for some time) is to pull a shot between 25 and 35 sec, rarely i need 40 sec shots and those are for light washed coffees roasted for filters maybe.
> 
> On the other hand, using a unimodal flat grinder demands on pullin the shots way different than with a conical grinder. With a flat you pull the shots in 45-60 seconds to get the best out of the coffee.
> 
> ...


Sounds like I need to go a unit or 2 coarser.

2 shots this morning adding a cocktail shake and a couple of side taps into my routine and both looked pretty good through the naked Pf and tasted good too.


----------



## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Very first shot:

Foundry - Guji Highland Farm

17.8g of beans, ground weight was 17.2g, so 0.6g retention - is this to be expected on the very first grind? Or is it just a possibly random lump of grounds which has somehow caught in the neck and will drop out next time?

@18, 51 seconds for 1:2, 35g. Taste was good but not getting the very pronounced lime notes, previously experienced with the Mazzer SJ. I'll go a little coarser, maybe 20 next time.


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

Banjoman said:


> Very first shot:
> 
> Foundry - Guji Highland Farm
> 
> ...


I actually got -0.6g with my first 18g, but then got +0.6g on my second. Ever since then I've got out exactly what I've put in (although my scales only weigh to 0.1g).


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Banjoman said:


> Very first shot:
> 
> Foundry - Guji Highland Farm
> 
> ...


I've just started with the same beans as you. My latest shot was @ 18g in and 35g our in 40secs which was slightly sour I think. My first shot was the same but 46secs and that was bitter.

I'm not getting any of the lime notes yet though... maybe I need to try a 1:2.5 ratio?

Regarding the retention, I've got to say I'm blown away. I've probably put around 10 doses through the Niche so far and I'm now consistently getting 0-0.05 discrepancy every time. I put 18.00g in and I get 17.97g out! Wow, just wow!!


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Thinking about it a bit more (!) the slight static issue went away with the Monolith. I wonder if the charge kind of builds up in transit, if there's polystyrene involved, plastic bags etc and movement then could that cause a little static build up?


I was thinking this might be the cause. I had a touch more static with the new Niche compared to the test one that I've had for a while. Nothing terribly much but I noticed as I hadn't seen that previously.


----------



## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

Banjoman said:


> Very first shot:
> 
> Foundry - Guji Highland Farm
> 
> ...


Second grind: negligible retention (

Now grinding @20, 17.8g in, 43 seconds for 1:2, 36g out. Getting the lime notes now. Tempted to try one notch coarser @21 to see what I get, but that's for tomorrow now.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Banjoman said:


> Second grind: negligible retention (
> 
> Now grinding @20, 17.8g in, 43 seconds for 1:2, 36g out. Getting the lime notes now. Tempted to try one notch coarser @21 to see what I get, but that's for tomorrow now.


In enters a parallel universe...no seriously the very first grind after thorough burrs out cleaning tends to fill all the nooks and crevices that it never moves from again. So that's part of the coffee that doesn't exchange (as defined in my review). In normally takes a few shots for all that to normalise.

Funny enough when you change beans or make a big change in grind you also get a larger than normal discrepancy, but this stuff often magically matter transports itself back into the grind cup later...or can even come out as a slight over.


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Stevebee said:


> I only wish the numbers went all the way round as it would be easier to say a number rather than which screw I'm aligned with!


I was thinking of marking a "filter dot" on the collar - further round. I'd use the original for espresso and other to guide me for filter. Maybe just a little white dot.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Banjoman said:


> Very first shot:
> 
> Foundry - Guji Highland Farm
> 
> ...


Compared to the k30 - my shots are not so much 'in your face', I read that's perhaps the conical taste profile? I assume super jolly is large flat?

I really really like the profile of the niche, my first conical, seems so much more tolerant and smooth somehow - so much easier to get the taste notes without the fruity bits overpowering the other notes.


----------



## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Mine arrived today, after a bit of a kerfuffle with the couriers.

I couldn't resist seeing if my tamper station fits, and lo, it does! Now DavecUK says that the Niche wasn't designed for grinding straight into the portafilter, but it does open up some possibilities in future when I get more used to it.









I can't remember reading about this, but has anyone else noticed that there are a spare set of springs in the base? A nice touch.


----------



## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

Stevebee said:


> After calibrating (finger tight only) most of my coffees for espresso are 18-22. Older the coffee the finer the grind.
> 
> For the Kalita I normally use a slightly coarser than V60 grind which is 2+2 on the Feldgrind, approx 860microns via the Kruve sieves. Tried to replicate this grind on the Niche. *When the white dot points at the screw in the middle of the lid hinge grind looks about right *and had virtually the same split when put through the sieves.
> 
> I only wish the numbers went all the way round as it would be easier to say a number rather than which screw I'm aligned with!


After calibration I find that my espresso setting falls into the range designated by Niche but for V60 I'm having to unwind all the way back to close to the 0 mark to get the grind right. Stevebee's post suggests that I'm not alone with these 'off the designated range' settings.

Anyone else finding the same thing with respect to V60/Kalita??


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Good find, Norvin!

Love it when manufacturers go that extra mile when they don't need to...


----------



## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> magically matter transports itself back into the grind cup later...or can even come out as a slight over.


Hey, what a selling point that could be - a grinder that regularly put out more than it took in! Like having a loyalty card, you get a free shot every ten doses!


----------



## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

Altrough it is up to the hype my first impression was little disappointing and that is probably due to a little assambly mishandling.

1. Durring unpacking my other half asked me: Is it not supposed to be new? The reason she asked was that the funnel was full of disgusting fingerprints. I had to unscrew it and clean it properly.

2. Since I had the funnel off I wanted to see the burrs so I pulled out the outer burr and noticed that it is greasy. Did not want to mess with this one.

3. First dose 18g in 15.6 out, put back the grind cup and start the grinder again 0.7g more out so a total of 1.7g retention. Thinking about it this must be due to greasy burrs.

So some grease that they put on the funnel thread must be slipped on the burs leading to the above.

But no actual functional issue with it yet.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Norvin said:


> Mine arrived today, after a bit of a kerfuffle with the couriers.
> 
> I couldn't resist seeing if my tamper station fits, and lo, it does! Now DavecUK says that the Niche wasn't designed for grinding straight into the portafilter, but it does open up some possibilities in future when I get more used to it.
> 
> ...


That's because it's the first time I've seen it and I've had the bases off a few times....learnt something new today. I also just found out who cable tied them together and put them all in











jonners said:


> Hey, what a selling point that could be - a grinder that regularly put out more than it took in! Like having a loyalty card, you get a free shot every ten doses!


Trouble is with the amount that might drop out, it's a free double shot every 600 double shots...


----------



## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Question........what solutions have people come up with for single dosing? By that, I mean you can buy those really expensive glasss tubes in a stand that you load up with your desired dose then simply tip in. I have seen some using test tubes. I have seen some nice Zen type bamboo holders, and some, like me at the mo, just weigh out and tip in. thoughts?


I use these:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F182491785102

yeah, they don't look fancy like glass test tubes etc do, but they do the job and are dirt cheap (can be reused as long as you just use the zip lock and don't heat seal them). I have the 70x130mm bags and put a single 15g dose of beans in each.

Phill

PS Hi all, by the way, been lurking here for well over a year now, and because of which am now the proud owner of a Niche grinder also


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Having been playing with my technique a little, this is what works for me

grind into the cup, put the pf on and turn over. a couple of sharp taps then a couple of sideways taps with the hand and when I remove the cup the grind seems to be nice and level without the need for further playing around


----------



## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How are people finding using the grinding cup with portafilter baskets smaller than 58mm?
> 
> I have a La Pav and the transfer process is not as straight forward as I'd like.


Inspired by the Niche when it was first revealed last year, I bought a cheap stainless steel chocolate shaker with the same diameter as my portafilter (51mm), so now that I've got the Niche I'm just using the chocolate shaker instead of the Niche cup - works a treat, least until Niche make a proper 51mm cup.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

jlarkin said:


> I was thinking of marking a "filter dot" on the collar - further round. I'd use the original for espresso and other to guide me for filter. Maybe just a little white dot.


Make sure you agree with everyone else where to put it !

Maybe 180 degrees off the white dot, for consistency?

A little stick on jewel found on most five year olds would work.


----------



## cotag (Aug 13, 2017)

Phill82 said:


> Inspired by the Niche when it was first revealed last year, I bought a cheap stainless steel chocolate shaker with the same diameter as my portafilter (51mm), so now that I've got the Niche I'm just using the chocolate shaker instead of the Niche cup - works a treat, least until Niche make a proper 51mm cup.


Do you have a link to the 51 mm shaker maybe? I've been searching for a 51 mm metal cup for quite a time now... Thanks


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Norvin said:


> Mine arrived today, after a bit of a kerfuffle with the couriers.
> 
> I couldn't resist seeing if my tamper station fits, and lo, it does! Now DavecUK says that the Niche wasn't designed for grinding straight into the portafilter, but it does open up some possibilities in future when I get more used to it.
> 
> View attachment 36881


Looks good . Did you make it or buy it? Are you going on to use one of your funnels and a distribution tool or just tap and tamp?


----------



## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

cotag said:


> Do you have a link to the 51 mm shaker maybe? I've been searching for a 51 mm metal cup for quite a time now... Thanks


I apologise, it was actually 50mm, not 51mm, the shaker I got, but it still does the job pretty well for a 51mm basket -

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F332308916509


----------



## cotag (Aug 13, 2017)

Phill82 said:


> I apologise, it was actually 50mm, not 51mm, the shaker I got, but it still does the job pretty well for a 51mm basket -
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F332308916509


Great, thank you very much for your help!


----------



## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

iulianato said:


> Altrough it is up to the hype my first impression was little disappointing and that is probably due to a little assambly mishandling.
> 
> 1. Durring unpacking my other half asked me: Is it not supposed to be new? The reason she asked was that the funnel was full of disgusting fingerprints. I had to unscrew it and clean it properly.
> 
> ...


What would be the best method to degrease these burrs?


----------



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Probably best asking NICHE as they may well be interested in the condition you have received your machine.

Jon.


----------



## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Freaking love this thing! my technique with the grind cup has now been honed so not making a mess anymore! I'm not great with taste differences normally but the step up from the SGP is enormous, the crema is alot thicker (same mystery 9 bean I'm using since making the grinder switch) and it's just a nicer tasting coffee. Didn't calibrate just dialled in straight out of the box. It's so much quieter than the SGP too. So pleased


----------



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Cloughy.... Are you not in the routine of protecting all surfaces on your equipment...... just saying....







.

Best.

Jon.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Phill82 said:


> Inspired by the Niche when it was first revealed last year, I bought a cheap stainless steel chocolate shaker with the same diameter as my portafilter (51mm), so now that I've got the Niche I'm just using the chocolate shaker instead of the Niche cup - works a treat, least until Niche make a proper 51mm cup.


Oh cool! Have you a link to it so I can buy one? Or did you just buy from the high street?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Oh cool! Have you a link to it so I can buy one? Or did you just buy from the high street?


Doh. Sorry, just realised was in the post above.


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Compared to the k30 - my shots are not so much 'in your face', I read that's perhaps the conical taste profile? I assume super jolly is large flat?
> 
> I really really like the profile of the niche, my first conical, seems so much more tolerant and smooth somehow - so much easier to get the taste notes without the fruity bits overpowering the other notes.


I think the Super Jolly is 64mm (and is definitely flat!). I'm interested to learn the difference in taste between a flat and conical as this is my first experience of being able to compare. After only two shots with the Niche, and still considering myself to be quite a novice, I'm sure I'm not yet properly dialled in. But when I become more proficient, it'll be fun to do a side by side comparison of the Mazzer with the Niche, as I expect lots of others are doing with their trusty old grinder versus the new kid on the block! (Though I must admit, I've currently relegated the Mazzer to a shelf below the Niche where it can't be plugged in.)


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

cloughy said:


> Freaking love this thing! my technique with the grind cup has now been honed so not making a mess anymore! I'm not great with taste differences normally but the step up from the SGP is enormous, the crema is alot thicker (same mystery 9 bean I'm using since making the grinder switch) and it's just a nicer tasting coffee. Didn't calibrate just dialled in straight out of the box. It's so much quieter than the SGP too. So pleased


Your worktop is begging for some oil.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Enjoying using the Niche more and more although I still don't like the grind cup, straight in to the pf would have been IMO a better design. It introduces a potential inconsistency to the work flow which doesn't need to be there. I've made two shots this morning, one was great the second I was left with a mound to one side of the PF with no obvious change in technique. It's a bit pot luck at the moment as to what I get when I lift the cup. As I said earlier I'm sure I'll get used to it and consistency will improve but if they make a Niche 2.0 please consider some PF forks


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

IMHO PF forks is exactly what shouldn't be done! Blind shaker, however, might be less of a bad idea if you don't like flipping it.

I have been having a good time with the grind cup and PF funnel for Sage DTP. No need for WDT or distribution tool, really.

My machine has never stayed clean for that long.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

PPapa said:


> IMHO PF forks is exactly what shouldn't be done! Blind shaker, however, might be less of a bad idea if you don't like flipping it.
> 
> I have been having a good time with the grind cup and PF funnel for Sage DTP. No need for WDT or distribution tool, really.
> 
> My machine has never stayed clean for that long.


Why do you think it's such a bad idea out of interest?


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

xpresso said:


> Probably best asking NICHE as they may well be interested in the condition you have received your machine.
> 
> Jon.


Done that already but they won't come and wash my burrs tonight I suppose.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

Grind into the pf require an antistatic screen on the spout that will increase the retention like on most of the grinders.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GingerBen said:


> Enjoying using the Niche more and more although I still don't like the grind cup, straight in to the pf would have been IMO a better design. It introduces a potential inconsistency to the work flow which doesn't need to be there. I've made two shots this morning, one was great the second I was left with a mound to one side of the PF with no obvious change in technique. It's a bit pot luck at the moment as to what I get when I lift the cup. As I said earlier I'm sure I'll get used to it and consistency will improve but if they make a Niche 2.0 please consider some PF forks


Look I felt the same way as you did over a year ago when I first started using the Niche Zero, exactly the same! However, I was completely wrong. There are 2 main reasons why I was wrong and this is what I realised after some months of using the grinder.

1. Why would I have to have my portafilter in the grinder, that's just silly. If I am making a coffee, I can be grinding my next dose into the cup. My portafilter is in the group staying nice and warm and no matter how many coffees I make, the time to grind the beans is always shorter than the shot time, so by using the cup, the grinder never slows me down. Notwithstanding the static reduction, it just makes sense from a workflow perspective. Having a heavy portafilter on some ugly holder, loosing heat...just doesn't make sense

2. I couldn't get the knack of getting the grounds into the portafilter, it always piled up one side. Well I have the knack and mostly now it doesn't it just stays reasonably level. The cup allows me to stir the grinds with a wooden chopstick, about 5 turns, invert portafilter over it, place right way up, 2 sharp taps on the bottom of the cup, a triple shake horizontally and instead of a cocktail we get a mostly level bed of coffee. Then just some judicious tapping (once the cup is off) on the edges of the portafilter to level it out.

This means a clean workflow, the minimum of gadgets and believe me I wouldn't want to go back to portafilter catcher rings.


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## matharon (Dec 22, 2014)

Invert it, shake it, tap pf few times on a pad, remove cup, spread flat with finger (if needed), tamp, enjoy.

Works for me.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The secret of the cup is this, as already well stated by Dave.....once inverted and tipped in to the basket, tap the bottom of the cup to loosen any cling ons. If you take the cup away at that stage then there will definitely be a mound, so keep the cup in place and either shake it level and from side to side or thump it a couple of times with the heel of your hand to move the grinds to level out. WORKS EVERY SINGLE TIME FOR ME!


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

I hear what you're all saying but I'm comparing to a Mythos - put in PF press and voila a perfect mound of coffee that doesn't require a sequence of taps, shakes, stirs or any other performance. I like the Niche but this is my bugbear with it at the moment - time will tell if that changes as it has for you DaveC.

Perhaps it's not a fair comparison in general but it's the one I am making so this is what I'm observing.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

iulianato said:


> Done that already but they won't come and wash my burrs tonight I suppose.


Given the finger prints and personally I would not expect such quantity of grease apparent to cause that retention and as there have been no other reports of similar circumstances, curious.

You could excuse a film to initially protect the burrs.

Jon.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

richwade80 said:


> Make sure you agree with everyone else where to put it !
> 
> Maybe 180 degrees off the white dot, for consistency?
> 
> A little stick on jewel found on most five year olds would work.


Hmmm, well first we all need to start practicing for a consistent notion of "finger tight". I only have a 3 1/2 year old, I'll pat her down later just in case.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Finding this interesting as I too will compare the Niche to a similar priced (albeit second hand) mythos. Which does produce the best mound of coffee and is the simplest on demand to use with the lowest (not zero) retention. What folk have to consider is what people want from their coffee prep. The Niche seems simple enough but not as simple as a mythos, it is however a tonne more kitchen friendly. I doubt that the Niche will drive the same possibilities with lighter roars as the mythos but will be happy to be disproved next week. As far as I see it Niche have done exactly what most enthusiasts want, zero retention, simplicity, quality burrs and compact. However some folk still want push and play but this at change with more user experience on the niche


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## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

Isn't this a good enough first step?

If it works as well as hoped there's always room to bring out a slightly larger version that can take a portafilter directly later?


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Finding this interesting as I too will compare the Niche to a similar priced (albeit second hand) mythos.


Yep, we all compare with our own reference points but to be picky you're not going to compare with similar priced grinder. I get the point of course, I've done the same against my Ceado E37s and memories of previously owned Mazzer Mini E both of which were built to last but one is about 50% more expensive and the other maybe 250% now.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

PaulL said:


> Yep, we all compare with our own reference points but to be picky you're not going to compare with similar priced grinder. I get the point of course, I've done the same against my Ceado E37s and memories of previously owned Mazzer Mini E both of which were built to last but one is about 50% more expensive and the other maybe 250% now.


You are comparing new prices I am comparing the same priced grinders, as I said the mythos is second hand but it cost the same so I can compare what you would get for your money.


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> You are comparing new prices I am comparing the same priced grinders, as I said the mythos is second hand but it cost the same so I can compare what you would get for your money.


Fair but to that point I (and many here) paid £360 for the Niche.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Dayks said:


> Fair but to that point I (and many here) paid £360 for the Niche.


To be fair I paid £275 for the mythos







just using it as an example


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

I understand of course but ouch, does a new-Mythos owner really lose that much during ownership?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Knowing the Chap as I do. He probably picked it up in a 'scrapyard' & rebuilt the 'thing' to new:yuk:


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GingerBen said:


> I hear what you're all saying but I'm comparing to a Mythos - put in PF press and voila a perfect mound of coffee that doesn't require a sequence of taps, shakes, stirs or any other performance. I like the Niche but this is my bugbear with it at the moment - time will tell if that changes as it has for you DaveC.
> 
> Perhaps it's not a fair comparison in general but it's the one I am making so this is what I'm observing.


I'm not talking about whether the comparison if fair or unfair...if you prefer the work flow of the Mythos and feel it fits your lifestyle that's what you prefer....no one can argue with that can they. I don't believe the perfect product that suits everyone has, or ever will, be made, that's why there are variants of things, TVs, cars, tampers etc.. People have to buy what they prefer using, to do anything else is madness. Everyone has their reasons for liking/not liking a grinder, it's why I try and give as much information in reviews as I can, so people can look and think....does that product fit what I want from it or not (be it machine, grinder or roaster. I like to think I get it right more often than I get it wrong. Did I get it right with the Niche, I think so, lots of people seem to like it....is it right for you, only time can tell.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I'm liking the coffee that results from the Niche more and more with every pour. However, from a workflow point of view I would still rather have a Mythos. Or at any rate I'd like to live with one and see.

I might have to start selling a grinder or two and maybe I'll be able to find a Mythos I can afford.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Headgoboomboom said:


> I have a question regarding coarse grind. It seems that the grinds are still quite fine even on the coarse setting, and I have to rotate the adjustment another full rotation counter-clockwise to get a coarse grind to use with my Bunn Trifecta. Any other experiences with this?


Seems very coarse, if you're talking about one and a half full rotations from tightest, but if that's the grind that works for you there shouldn't be a problem, as you're just screwing the top burr out. I would have thought that one full turn from mid-espresso would be as coarse as most people would ever need?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is going to be difficult to compare the Mythos to the Niche on anything meaningful, except what's in the cup. If you compared the niche to an E92 then it would probably win, because in order to single dose a bE92 it is a right faff on and the taste is allegedly pretty similar. If you compared the Niche to another specialist single dose, then that would be interesting Dave. But it is not going to beat a Mythos on anything except possible taste in the cup and that comes down to personal preference. the Mythos you chuck beans in, grind with the best coffee mound in the puck money can buy, and away you go. You cannot do that on the Niche but there again you cannot single dose a Mythos.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Again I think you are all getting a little defensive of your new purchases! I am only trying to put a different perspective on this. Comparing to a similar priced item using different beans, ultimately about the end product, with a little about the way you get there. The Niche has many strings to its bow and I hope it is as good as everyone is saying it is, I haven't seen one in the flesh or had the pleasure of trying one out yet, so I am really looking forward to the opportunity. It will also be a chance to read what someone who is not sold into the concept, that has experience with A LOT of grinders has to say about the mighty Niche. You never know I might think it is so much better in the cup than a mythos or an ek and if I do rest assured I will say so.


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## Benjijames28 (Mar 29, 2017)

What's the verdict then, should I grab one of the last niche grinder available to order for November delivery? It's a big investment


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Again I think you are all getting a little defensive of your new purchases! I am only trying to put a different perspective on this.


I can't speak for how others feel Dave but I am certainly not defensive at all about you finally getting hold of one. I have been waiting so long for people (including you) to get them and hopefully have the same great experience I have.

There have been a few doubters especially on the Kafenetz forum who have been really negative about the Niche. I think they believe the UK doesn't have skills. Your objective review can only help show that UK companies can still design good stuff. I'm sure your going to like it and I for one am keen to read your take on it. I know you've not been able to pop in and try it over the past year (life gets in the way) but at least you can run it through its paces soon.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

You feeling alright^ haha


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jony said:


> You feeling alright^ haha


I felt better when I could be one of the few people making my spro on the Niche, better, but in a slightly guilty way. The sort of feeling you get when you secretly eat all the After Eights, but leave the wrappers in the box


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

TBH If I could have bought a used Mythos for the same money I paid for the Niche I would have done so. But then, I have a Pharos so I can have the low retention conical burr experience in exchange for a bit of physical effort. After a week of Niche, I prefer the workflow of my Eureka 65e but like the coffee from the niche better. (Same beans and about the same in the cup as the Pharos, which I suppose is to be expected.) One day I will have a Mythos and will then be able to make a more sensible comparison. Until then, the jury is out. I suspect I will end up with the Niche and either a Mythos or will keep the 65e. Despite my best intentions I'm too lazy to use the Pharos as much as I should.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

and for clarity Dave (CoffeeChap), I'm not defensive of the new purchase, I took a gamble when I backed the campaign and could have sunk £350 for no return or might have been disappointed but figured I could get all or most of my money back from a private sale and that if cheaper burrs were decided upon I could find a way to install Kony burrs with a little help from a knowledgeable friend. I was sold on it from seeing the prototype irrespective of how it stood up to much more expensive grinders because of it's taste and various qualities written about at length over the months.

If I ran a cafe I would value the commercial build of my Ceado or if I was asked to make coffees at an event I would certainly want it there with hopper full to make back to back coffees. Up until now if we wanted better shots we haven't had a choice really but to buy a Ceado or a Mythos or a ...

So for me, the fact that it will be compared against something as expensive as a Mythos is quite something purely as a taste comparison. When I spoke of the price of the Mythos I understood they were £1200 (a quick google search showed £1300 and £2000 versions and perhaps more) and if a second-hand one might be a similar price to a Niche that's a tremendous depreciation, I think I would cry if I had experienced that! Of course, I might still do so if I decide to sell the Ceado given there could be a few hundred grinders on the market in the coming months.

I will read your thoughts with interest too.


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

I compared the niche to my E37s. I prefer the taste in the cup of the niche and the workflow isn't that much different. I can swap beans at a whim now though!

The only thing I need to remember is to grind the beans before putting them in the portafilter!


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> Again I think you are all getting a little defensive of your new purchases! I am only trying to put a different perspective on this. Comparing to a similar priced item using different beans, ultimately about the end product, with a little about the way you get there. The Niche has many strings to its bow and I hope it is as good as everyone is saying it is, I haven't seen one in the flesh or had the pleasure of trying one out yet, so I am really looking forward to the opportunity. It will also be a chance to read what someone who is not sold into the concept, that has experience with A LOT of grinders has to say about the mighty Niche. You never know I might think it is so much better in the cup than a mythos or an ek and if I do rest assured I will say so.


I think it's great to see people with a lot of experience compare grinders. It's always interesting and to be honest I don't mind if you thought it was terrible. I'm pretty happy with the purchase. In all honesty if I compare it to when I first received my Sette I was more taken aback and happy with that than the Niche. However I believe the Niche is a better grinder overall.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Again I think you are all getting a little defensive of your new purchases! I am only trying to put a different perspective on this. Comparing to a similar priced item using different beans, ultimately about the end product, with a little about the way you get there. The Niche has many strings to its bow and I hope it is as good as everyone is saying it is, I haven't seen one in the flesh or had the pleasure of trying one out yet, so I am really looking forward to the opportunity. It will also be a chance to read what someone who is not sold into the concept, that has experience with A LOT of grinders has to say about the mighty Niche. You never know I might think it is so much better in the cup than a mythos or an ek and if I do rest assured I will say so.


I am not remotely defensive! What I am saying, is if you compare a rainbow trout, to a t bone steak to a kumquat how can you really one is any better than the other. If comparing flat to conical, what would anyone really expect to find. I think you should take a Niche, have a good try with it and not compare it to anything else. See if you can learn to love it, or not as the case maybe


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Part of my workflow is to tap the little plastic chute a few times with the brush that comes with the grinder - knocking out the last few grinds in to the cup.

Everyone think this is ok? I'm not knocking the hell out of it though want to be sure it's ok long term


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

As someone who possibly qualifies on experience with grinders (i am not technical but have had a few) then I look at it like this. I have always preferred big, commercial type grinders. I have had several Mythos grinders and they are my favourite all round grinder. My out and out favourite for taste is a Compak K10 fresh but retention makes it hard to live with. The Mythos for a workflow produces the most amazing mound of coffee in the pf, is really well built and is an addition to any commercial premises. On the other hand, the Niche is an out and out domestic grinder, not capable of high output, but how many home users regularly get into double figures per day? So, if you ignore the big balls competition, could you live with a new grinder that can only single dose, has next to zero retention, has undoubtedly ruffled a few feathers? For me, the answer is yes but not as my only grinder. I will always have a second grinder as those times when you need to make half a dozen on the trot (and it does happen) you can do it with ease. I see me using the Niche the vast majority of the time. If life dictated that I could only have one grinder, then that would be a difficult decision, and the Niche might lose, but, if it did, it would not be because there is anything I do not like about it. It would be because to me and my coffee habit, single dosing is not the be all and end all


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Part of my workflow is to tap the little plastic chute a few times with the brush that comes with the grinder - knocking out the last few grinds in to the cup.
> 
> Everyone think this is ok? I'm not knocking the hell out of it though want to be sure it's ok long term


I'm tapping it with my finger, although my little boy prefers slamming the lid which was very effective. He's not been invited back.

So are still using the ecm? Any plans to stop the sale?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I like this debate. For clarity I genuinely hope I enjoy the Niche as martin should be commended for getting this product to market and I genuinely hope that Niche have success. The fact that it will be compared to really expensive kit is testament to where it sits right now as i don't think that a grinder on its price range could stand up to it!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

^agree - the niche punches above its weight but its always interesting to see comparisons, in the end it would be interesting to see it compared against a number of different grinders. More power to their elbows, I wonder if their working on a flat burr alternative.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Benjijames28 said:


> What's the verdict then, should I grab one of the last niche grinder available to order for November delivery? It's a big investment


Only you can decide that



kennyboy993 said:


> Part of my workflow is to tap the little plastic chute a few times with the brush that comes with the grinder - knocking out the last few grinds in to the cup.
> 
> Everyone think this is ok? I'm not knocking the hell out of it though want to be sure it's ok long term


If it breaks or chips, please let us know







, then we can avoid a routine that "probably" isn't necessary


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> ^agree - the niche punches above its weight but its always interesting to see comparisons, in the end it would be interesting to see it compared against a number of different grinders. More power to their elbows, I wonder if their working on a flat burr alternative.


Would love to see a big burred mini-mythos that'd fit in my kitchen.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

ashcroc said:


> Would love to see a big burred mini-mythos that'd fit in my kitchen.


Flats need a more powerful motor, which I imagine would also be bigger?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Would love to see a big burred mini-mythos that'd fit in my kitchen.


Get a bigger kitchen


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> Would love to see a big burred mini-mythos that'd fit in my kitchen.


It already exists it's cllled a Kafatek flat it's a little pricey though


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> Flats need a more powerful motor, which I imagine would also be bigger?


I'd have thought dropping the duty cycle from a commercial to a domestic perspective would reduce the size of the motor somewhat.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

As I have read this thread, I have come to realise that we humans are inventive people and constantly capable of surprising others. Now I never wanted to make this and you can probably sense me gritting my teeth through some of it. It's aimed at the lowest common denominator e.g. someone who didn't read the manual and has never used a grinder before...they just found out what a coffee bean looked like.

So don't be insulted and bearing in mind the target audience, I hope you enjoy this 30 minute Video more than I did making it. Grab a coffee, get some popcorn and enjoy. I just hope it's going to be useful to some new owners.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Great film dave. Where did you get your suction pot for your beans?


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

CoffeeChris said:


> Great film dave. Where did you get your suction pot for your beans?


Look like a glass Airscape - https://planetarydesign.com/all-products/#storage


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

CoffeeChris said:


> Great film dave. Where did you get your suction pot for your beans?


BB have recently become the UK importers of the airscape & there's talk about a group buy next month.

Here's the thread talking about them.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zwanger said:


> Mythos is not such a great grinder, cause i saw someone is trying to compare niche to mythos. I dont see the point in that. Mythos has a bimodal grinding particle distribution that mimics conical burrs. You can check the particle distribution from a mythos using google. For clarity and wow shots you want something else, but this will work with only a few types of light roasts. In general conical burrs will deliver better tasting coffee most of the time. And from my experience, a little play in conical burrs doesnt affect that much the taste as in flat burrs. In flat burrs a little play makes way more fines cause of the burrs geometry ending in subextraction.
> 
> .


All grinders set in the espresso range make bimodal distributions (only apparent in an LPA plot), as you go coarser they become unimodal.

For conical & flat, both can extract normally. Actual extraction (average across a range of origins, e.g. not just using Kenyans) may depend on hopper fill level, presence of an auger over gravity fed, etc.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Zwanger said:


> Flats need a smaller motor than conical burrs. Look at Ceado e37s vs e92. The difference of the size comes from the motor.
> 
> But this is not a rule. I know grinders with conical burrs with small wattage but with multiplier belts doing more torque than normal. Flat grinders are harder to make them grind good as single dose and for flats you need different way to extract coffee. Conical are ideal, fast and good for single dose/home use.
> 
> ...


I am sorry but I can't help but ask . . . This is your 3rd post on this forum and once again you make a lot of claims. Can you substantiate these? What experience do you speak from? And what equipment do you currently have?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Flat grinder is the obvious next step for Niche based on their success to date, build on the brand and to accommodate people who prefer lighter roasts. I would be surprised if their not working on it now.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Also, flats chuck the grinds out using centrifugal force which requires spin speed, where conicals do not and utilise gravity to a large extent. I do not see any reason for Niche to have a go at the flats market to be honest. They have a good product. I am sure the journey for them has not been an easy one. personally, I would take a well earned rest for a while


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> As I have read this thread, I have come to realise that we humans are inventive people and constantly capable of surprising others. Now I never wanted to make this and you can probably sense me gritting my teeth through some of it. It's aimed at the lowest common denominator e.g. someone who didn't read the manual and has never used a grinder before...they just found out what a coffee bean looked like.
> 
> So don't be insulted and bearing in mind the target audience, I hope you enjoy this 30 minute Video more than I did making it. Grab a coffee, get some popcorn and enjoy. I just hope it's going to be useful to some new owners.


Nice video Dave, amazing how clear the audio was through those gritted teeth!

Was it my lack of coffee or did coarse and fine get swapped around?


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that conicals aren't so good with lighter roasts. I prefer lighter roasts & I've ordered a niche (hopefully arriving today), I'm not overly worried, I'm only using a gaggia classic so it's not like I've got a high end set up, but should I be? [Arrested Development voice] Have I made a huge mistake?*

* apologies to those who don't watch Arrested Development


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Great video. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to make it! Fortunately, I haven't moved the black ring so I'm OK. I think this video should be 'stickied' for future use!

I'm enjoying my Niche. It's a very different animal to my recently sold Titus and I'm still making a bit of a mess as I refine my work flow. I like the simplicity and quietness. SWMBO likes the compactness. I think that the wood seems a little dry so I will give it some wax.

In the cup, with my super dark roasts, I'm not really noticing much difference. That's good news for me!

I think that the Niche is a remarkable product considering that it is a British design, crowd-funded and has made it into production. Well done (or BZ as I'm used to saying!) to all concerned!

David


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Chockymonster said:


> Nice video Dave, amazing how clear the audio was through those gritted teeth!
> 
> Was it my lack of coffee or did coarse and fine get swapped around?


Well it's not perfect, but then I wasn't being paid, it was done out of the goodness of my heart and I couldn't summon up the necessary whatever to redo any parts of it. Believe me it was hard enough to do already. For me (and no insult intended to anyone) it's like going back and sitting for 1 hour in a primary school reading class. If you can't read, then it's a great thing to do, but if you can it would get kinda tedious. I realised when editing I sometimes said things I didn't quite mean, but I couldn't face going down and correcting it, I am sure people will get the point OK though. It was one of those get the tripod set, clip on the phone (cheap chinese Xiaomi) and start shooting for 35 minutes, edit as little as possible and publish hours later.

Todd and whatever their names are on whole latte love I am sure can do 30m of nonsense much more professionally than me....and perhaps even make it interesting, I certainly find their videos funny. I simply use Video to impart information or proof of fact/concept....no one paid me to grin like a cheshire cat, use the advetorial voice, look remotely interested and animated, or even appear in person....one of things I hate the thought of, even though I am not a fat bastard now.

There was a comment made on a German forum that I was totally authentic, because they felt that when I was measuring retention in the Niche, I was probably sitting in my underpants whilst doing it....but that would be a step to far even for me







In general though I like making Video (especially when it's interesting), because it's easier to get concepts across than trying to write stuff down. Unfortunately super high quality polished productions actually take good equipment and a lot longer than people realise. Quick and dirty stuff is faster and probably more believable, because it's not really edited or a "one I prepared/practised earlier" scenario. It's more likely to be the same sort of realistic balls up that could happen in your kitchen. I also noticed my machines were not sparkling clean, but I as in a hurry to get it done!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

DavidBondy said:


> Great video. Thank you for taking the time and trouble to make it! Fortunately, I haven't moved the black ring so I'm OK. I think this video shoukd be 'stickied' for future use!
> 
> I'm enjoying my Niche. It's a very different animal to my recently sold Titus and I'm still making a bit of a mess as I refine my work flow. I like the simplicity and quietness. SWMBO likes the compactness. I think that the wood seems a little dry so I will give it some wax.
> 
> ...


Ooh I forgot to mention, I ran out of memory card so the last bit of vid didn't save properly and ended up on the cutting room floor. I did cover this.... I don't know if they have used a matt varnish or not on the wood. So try on a small non visible area first! That's what I was going to do.


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

I know how much effort goes into the polished stuff and how frustrating it is for some sarky git to come and point out an error. I just wanted to be the sarky got for a change










Thanks for putting the video together!


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

It irks me somewhat to hear conicals aren't good for light roasts. I currently own a Kafatek Monolith and previously a Compak E10. I exclusively drink light roasts on these giant conicals and get stunning results consistently. Even, dare I say at a 40 second shot.

Good coffee in, good coffee out.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Zwanger said:


> I have seen people going to 50 second with conical, dont.





Zwanger said:


> particle distribution from single dosing a horizontal flat burrs or a conical hand grinder are not desired in espresso.


Every day you learn something new...unless it's BS


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Great video Dave - thanks for taking the time to make it. My Niche is on the way and your video was both informative and really enjoyable. I'd also like to request it be stickied if possible.

Henry


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Zwanger said:


> Which ones?
> 
> To convince yourself with a normal flat horizontal burr grinder, do a single dose pull a shot. With the same grinder fill the hoper 150-200grams and grind 1 more shot and pull again. You will see the difference in taste, grind size (you will need to grind coarser with beans into hoper) Why? because grinding without weight preassure on flats, results more fines, that chokes the hidraulic flow inside your coffee.


Exact same thing happens on conics, it's due to the grind getting coarser as the beans are chewed by the burrs and the burr chamber gets empty. First few grams from a single dose will be much finer than the last few grams and this is true on both flats and conics. This is one of the reasons why grinder manufacturers always tell people to use their products with full hoppers, it's got nothing to do with burr types. This is also why you have to premix your grinds when single dosing, to mix it all up, otherwise you'd end up with a layer of fine grinds on the bottom of the basket and a coarser layers on top (if you were to grind straight into a basket).

One thing to keep in mind is that conics extract at much lower EY, typically 19% or so (if you single dose by dumping a whole dose in), whereas flats can go upto 21-25% depending on size.

T.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Also, flats chuck the grinds out using centrifugal force which requires spin speed, where conicals do not and utilise gravity to a large extent. I do not see any reason for Niche to have a go at the flats market to be honest. They have a good product. I am sure the journey for them has not been an easy one. personally, I would take a well earned rest for a while


Is there any evidence that higher grinding speed is bad? From what I've found, even conics benefit from higher running speeds and it allows for finer grind settings.

T.


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## steveholt (Jan 6, 2016)

Its a wonderful video Dave.

And to make you feel better, I even managed to cover an idiocy that you did not cover









During a paranoid calibration check post a V60 brew last night I was tightening grind bit by bit, with the switch on and ---

we are knowing where this is going ------

ran burrs, tighten by 10 notches, ran burrs, tighten by ten, ran burrs, tighten by ten - a little NOISE for a second, off, cold sweats. Fear.

6 entirely fine espressos laters I am paranoidly doubting my 'ruined' grinder want to cry and cant get asleep.

Slepted caffeinatedly.

Checked burrs this morning. They look fine to my eye.

Clean it out, calibrate.

first shots this AM are good.

but oh dear the fear.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Your burrs will be fine, sleep easy.


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

steveholt said:


> a little NOISE for a second, off, cold sweats. Fear.












Better don't get an EK43 and try to do a "perger" alignment.

I'm with Dave, no problems at all with your burrs.


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Finally mine arrived today. Looks really good!

First shot, uni-roast from DoubleShoot - Brazilie Venda Nova.

15g in, 14,5 out. Very good for first grind.

I started with setting 18, bit too fine, next one I will do at 19-20.

So far: great grinder. Very easy to use, silent, faster then I expected. Good to have conical back (I started to miss my good old Compak K10).

Thanks @Niche Coffee for producing, thanks @DavecUK for your ongoing support and great review, that allows me to back the grinder on IG September last year.

If it won't break (and I see no reason why it should), would be perfect match for home barista that wants to single dose.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Really interesting thread and the Niche is certainly living up to expectations and beyond. I was selfishly hoping that at least a few might want to sell theirs....but i haven't spotted even one disgruntled recipient. If there is one hiding i am very keen and waiting to snap theirs up especially if black.


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## steveholt (Jan 6, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Your burrs will be fine, sleep easy.


The coffee seems fine, so I think they must be, but in the context of your video I did chuckle.

This also raised something, and this might not be the thread for it.

There are many diagrams out there on the coffee internet for flat burrs showing the 'geometry'. Numerous cutting faces, and ultimately flat nurrs seem to be parallel at the ejection edges.

Is that the same for conical burrs - are the last faces the grinds see on the way out are parallel? Are these last faces active cutting faces?

Regardless, thanks for the comfort of experience folks.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

steveholt said:


> Is that the same for conical burrs - are the last faces the grinds see on the way out are parallel? Are these last faces active cutting faces?
> 
> Regardless, thanks for the comfort of experience folks.


The flatter areas at the outer tips of the conical inner burr are the finishing area, these determine how fine the burrs will grind (assuming all else being equal). E.g. a burr for coarse, manual brewed, grinds may have little to no flattening at all.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zwanger said:


> Which ones?
> 
> You mean the one i say flats are not that great for single dose? ofc i can explain really easy. The old flat/industrial grinders are not so great for single dose cause the beans stay for to long between the burrs so while cutting them they break into peaces wich generates a multimodal grind that comes without will with fines. The process is similar to the results from a conical hand grinder cause the coffee stays to long inside, and the particle distribution from single dosing a horizontal flat burrs or a conical hand grinder are not desired in espresso. To convince yourself with a normal flat horizontal burr grinder, do a single dose pull a shot. With the same grinder fill the hoper 150-200grams and grind 1 more shot and pull again. You will see the difference in taste, grind size (you will need to grind coarser with beans into hoper) Why? because grinding without weight preassure on flats, results more fines, that chokes the hidraulic flow inside your coffee. The same ideea is applied to normal Ek43, it comes from the factory with 2-10 hundredths of play, and that results in a multimodal grind, wich doesnt alow you to grind fine enought cause the fines and the other grind size chokes the flow. Here you can see what i mean with grind distribution as beeing multimodal, check HG one.
> 
> ...


The only thing that chart really shows, is that to pull 40g in 33s the Ditting used the finest grind & the HG-1 the coarsest.

There is no data below 150um where the bimodal aspect of espresso distribution sits (40-60um).

As the grind gets coarser with sifting, the captured weight of the coffee is spread out more across the sieves (see HG-1, lots of small humps because only 10-20% is caught on each sieve), if fine it is captured on less sieves (see Ditting, what appears to be a single peak, solely because the finer grind is spread over just a few sieves). The stdev of a grind is not clear to see, we can see grind size, but not "quality" per se.

Some flats, especially those with an auger, seem to be able to grind finer when single dosed (Ditting, EK-43), without adversely affecting puck permeability/extraction.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Our Niche has arrived!

First impressions are that it is lovely and I was very quickly won over with how nice it is to use.

Superbly designed packaging - at first I thought the delivery man was for something else as the box looked so small!

Small questions:

a. I'm not sure why the plate that the cup rests on is a separate part, took me a few seconds to figure out how the cup was supposed to sit on the exposed bolthead.

b. The wooden "feet" don't seem to serve any function other than cosmetic. I had reservations about the wood parts but they look okay in the flesh.

c. The motor does seem to chug a bit like a diesel engine rather than a continuous pitch - I can't really tell from any videos I can find if that is normal, but I suspect it is?

d. There is a small fault on the badge with a bit of black paint missing between the C and H, but I have a magic black pen that I will probably colour it in with at some point.

I calibrated it to finger tight - slipping fingers on dial like in Dave's ABC video, although I think I probably made it a lot tighter than really needed.

It took me four shots to dial it in and I ran about 5 shots of old beans through it before that.

First shots at 15 and 20 choked machine. At 30 it shot through. Settled near perfect on 25 which is nicely front and centre.

The coffee is tasting good!

(Rave El Salvador los Pireneos)

Edit:

Worried my post might sound a bit negative. It's not supposed to be, I really really like this machine!

Also here's a photo!


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that conicals aren't so good with lighter roasts. I prefer lighter roasts & I've ordered a niche (hopefully arriving today), I'm not overly worried, I'm only using a gaggia classic so it's not like I've got a high end set up, but should I be? [Arrested Development voice] Have I made a huge mistake?*
> 
> * apologies to those who don't watch Arrested Development


I don't think you should be worried Jon - the light roasts I've been putting through the niche have tasted amazing.

It's down to personal taste isn't it - i'm finding the niche is smoothing out the taste profile of lighter roasts where my k30 really pronounced the fruity flavours that dominated everything else.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

rdpx said:


> Our Niche has arrived!
> 
> First impressions are that it is lovely and I was very quickly won over with how nice it is to use.
> 
> ...


looks fantastic next to that white machine!

Answers to a few questions, the bolt holds on the bottom piece and the round wood bit covers that and looks aesthetically pleasing. The wooden feet as you rightly say, are just there to look nice...and why not









330 rpm is a bit chuggy, simply because of the planetary gearbox and huge speed reduction/torue multiplication going on....so yeah it's normal.

With the badge, *I'd recommend letting things die down a bit*, I'll bet the Niche team are busy and if your not happy with how marker pen looks simply send em a photo and ask them to put a badge in an envelope and post to you. I am going to "assume" it' a peel off stick on part, but I have never actually tried to remove one.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> I don't think you should be worried Jon - the light roasts I've been putting through the niche have tasted amazing.
> 
> It's down to personal taste isn't it - i'm finding the niche is smoothing out the taste profile of lighter roasts where my k30 really pronounced the fruity flavours that dominated everything else.


Thank you Kenny, very much appreciated! I do love the fruit flavours but as I'm using an Ascaso I-steel at the moment (which I know has a bad name but has done me well over the last 5 years!) I'm sure it's going to a massive step up! PS I'm very tempted by your coffee machine but think my Classic upgrade is gonna have to wait til next year...









Thanks again man.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> I've seen it mentioned a couple of times that conicals aren't so good with lighter roasts. I prefer lighter roasts & I've ordered a niche (hopefully arriving today), I'm not overly worried, I'm only using a gaggia classic so it's not like I've got a high end set up, but should I be? [Arrested Development voice] Have I made a huge mistake?*
> 
> * apologies to those who don't watch Arrested Development


Enjoy your grinder and switch of the forum for a couple of weeks.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

rdpx said:


> I calibrated it to finger tight - slipping fingers on dial like in Dave's ABC video, although I think I probably made it a lot tighter than really needed.
> 
> First shots at 15 and 20 choked machine. At 30 it shot through. Settled near perfect on 25 which is nicely front and centre.


Can see why you went for white, it looks great!

If its choking at 20 it sounds to me - as it sounds like you realise - that you have might have calibrated too tight. Dave's method of using just the thumb and index finger can give quite a different calibration than also using the middle finger as well which feels more comfortable but as I found you end up going several positions past the calibration mark compared to just thumb and middle or index.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

slamm said:


> Can see why you went for white, it looks great!
> 
> If its choking at 20 it sounds to me - as it sounds like you realise - that you have might have calibrated too tight.


Thanks. I think my partner is going to be very happy when she gets home. She likes white things.

Yes calibrated a little too tight, I'll maybe do it again when I ever clean it, although I can't see that it matters really as long as I know what it means.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Enjoy your grinder and switch of the forum for a couple of weeks.


Haha, cheers dude


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

rdpx said:


> Yes calibrated a little too tight, I'll maybe do it again when I ever clean it, although I can't see that it matters really as long as I know what it means.


It only matters because we are all in the same boat trying to find the right settings so if we are all calibrating it differently that's not going to be helpful for others trying to find their way. We would all get to know where we are with our own grinders but comparing with others gets confusing.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Re question (a) I figured this wooden plate catches any spillage and can just be lifted off to tip the spilled grinds away.


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

I love everything about this machine. Still getting used to the cup, inverting and trying to get no small spray from the gaggia classic. That is currently my learning curve. Already getting much nicer shots, with much more taste clarity and less bitter/muddy/acid than my rocky.

I love the switch, its a lovely switch.

Love the weight and build quality.

Love the noise.

Love the wood.

Love the coffee grinds it makes.

Love the Dial

I have been trying to think of a more repeatable way of calibrating but even then I guess there is no guarentee that machines will be comparable at the same setting. Would be interesting to find out though I am sure there must be a repeatable way of calibrating. In the meantime I thought of a way of putting a second marker on the black ring in a consistent repeatable way. This is so that when you go to coarser grind for filter etc you can read off the dial on the other side. My method is this:

Turn funnel (or black ring if uncalibrated) so that the white indicator is at the middle screw of the lid hinge.

Get a tiny piece of bluetack, or whatever, and place it on the black ring at the 25 indicator...

Done!

Now when you turn past 50 on the white you can use the secondary marker, and people can put the secondary marker in the same place as everyone else. Also you don't need to move the second marker anymore, just calibrate as usual.

Do a test with the new marker at 25, this is where the marker will come closest to the lid, make sure it doesn't get touched by the lid, you don't want the marker somehow falling into the grinder.



slamm said:


> It only matters because we are all in the same boat trying to find the right settings so if we are all calibrating it differently that's not going to be helpful for others trying to find their way. We would all get to know where we are with our own grinders but comparing with others gets confusing.


I don't think anyone will agree on what constitutes fingertight unfortunately. Even if you could reproduce torque exactly the alignment could be different depending on what is on the threads, coffee grease, dust, moisture etc. I think there must be a way of doing calibration repeatable but I haven't tried or looked yet.

I am on 21+ (just over 21 but not 21.5) using rave swiss water decaffe at moment. Drank a lot of decaffe today!!!! That is using gaggia classic 18:36 in 29s


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

Choronzon said:


> I don't think anyone will agree on what constitutes fingertight unfortunately. Even if you could reproduce torque exactly the alignment could be different depending on what is on the threads, coffee grease, dust, moisture etc. I think there must be a way of doing calibration repeatable but I haven't tried or looked yet.


Exactly.. which is why standardising at this early stage on Dave's one finger and thumb method is helpful in minimising differences in calibration settings - your grip slips more using just two fingers which makes it more consistent and you're less likely to overtighten it. At least until a better method comes along, which would be great but I dont see what that could be either. As you say there are likely other things that affect where the calibration ends up (eg what coffee, gunk or grease is in the funnel threads) so minimising one of the variables by using the same adjustment method can only be helpful.


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

Could I get a strain gauge sensor made to tell me the exact measurement please? (seriously just kidding)

After cleaning my grinder I measured all the grounds in the chamber, on the burrs etc and I had .8 grams of coffee. Yup, I'm a fan! Also, thank you Dave for the write-up on how to zero the grinder. Next time more "hit that like and subscribe button" commentary please


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PineappleMonkey said:


> After cleaning my grinder I measured all the grounds in the chamber, on the burrs etc and I had .8 grams of coffee. Yup, I'm a fan! Also, thank you Dave for the write-up on how to zero the grinder. Next time more "hit that like and subscribe button" commentary please


Oh dear, I put 0.4 to 0.7g in my review...looks like I was out by 0.1 gm, what coffee was that for?


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Oh dear, I put 0.4 to 0.7g in my review...looks like I was out by 0.1 gm, what coffee was that for?


That's nothing.

I put 18g of beans in and got 18.1g out!

That's like one free cup of coffee every 3kg. This grinder is going to pay for itself.


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

About to go through a bag of Dark Matter's unicorn blood and I didn't bother to zero it when I first got it soooo


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Have people been wasting their cups before using them?


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Have people been wasting their cups before using them?


Yes, I ran my finger round the inside and it came out with metallic residue on it.

Best to wash it.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> Yes, I ran my finger round the inside and it came out with metallic residue on it.
> 
> Best to wash it.


Thank you! Good to know


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Thank you! Good to know


Well he didn't mention he's got metallic fingers, did he?


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Just tried my Niche for the first time and it's an absolute pleasure to use!

After quickly calibrating it (30 seconds if that) I set to between 21 and 22 pulled a shot 18 in 45 out in 24 seconds, quite sharp as I expected, but still nice, tightened up to 18 and pulled 18 to 45 in 37 seconds, much rounder & fuller bodied but still nice and bright.

The flavour difference between this and my last grinder is very marked, I'm delighted, I'd like to say that the flavour profile of my beans is clearer but as I'm drinking LSOL I don't with any certainty know what they are









Only problem I have at the mo is distribution, which I'm sure is more a reflection of my process than of the machine itself.

On my last grinder I would grind into pf, then give a good stir with an opened paperclip (hi tech), level with distribution tool and tamp. I'd get a nice even extraction with a single mouse tail. Now I'm getting a few mouse tails in a circle so obviously I need to rework my technique!

I'm a very happy camper


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## thebookfreak58 (Jan 31, 2017)

Yeah I'm also getting a few mouse tails in a circle. I wonder if it's a function of the ring of the grind cup?

Keen for any other trips for distribution.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

Just noticed on a video @DavecUK put on youtube (niche burr removal and retention) at 4.12 it's showing lower burr and you can see the sweep arm. my sweep arm doesn't have an alignment pin on it on it, and my lower burr has 5 small holes around the centre of the burr, not 1 like in the video. I've searched everywhere for info but can't find anything about it being an upgrade or whatever


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

Here's the link


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@eddie57 The video of a preproduction prototype. The final production models had that pin removed, this is so any conical burr from any manufacturer would fit and not be held away from the sweep arms by an incorrectly placed pin. So if in the unlikely event of you finding another better conical burr (compared to the mazzer Kony) for the Niche, then you have a better than good chance of fitting it if the spindle diameter/keyway is the same (which would be quite likely) as manufacturers like to make burrs that will fit other grinders.

It also serves one other purpose...one less thing to shear off should something jam the arms, as with no pin and limited pressue holding them down they have a chance of slipping rather than breaking. So it's all good and as intended, because the prototypes did highlight some tiny areas where the grinder could be "fine tuned".


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

Brilliant, thanks Dave, new there would be a reason for it just couldn't find it anywhere


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

thebookfreak58 said:


> Yeah I'm also getting a few mouse tails in a circle. I wonder if it's a function of the ring of the grind cup?
> 
> Keen for any other trips for distribution.


I find the need to chuck a coffee catcher ring in after i've dumped the grounds in and give it a good stir with a toothpick or whatever the high tech equipment of choice might be. This leads to much better looking shots and ultimately tastier ones from my brief experience so far.


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Only had it a few days and modifying it already...

I love the design of the Niche but don't like the flat topped bolt that holds the bottom burr in place, so I have substituted it for a dome headed bolt. I think it looks better.

I have also treated the oak bits with a little danish oil, looks better and hopefully will not be easily stained in future.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

GingerBen said:


> I find the need to chuck a coffee catcher ring in after i've dumped the grounds in and give it a good stir with a toothpick or whatever the high tech equipment of choice might be. This leads to much better looking shots and ultimately tastier ones from my brief experience so far.


Thanks for this Ben, could I ask where you got your coffee catcher ring from? Think I'll invest in one


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

After dialling in my Kalita Wave on the Niche (between the screw in the middle of lid hinge and left hinge) I've just done it for French Press. This is the "traditional" coarse grind FP as I know some do use a very fine grind fo FP, almost a V60 grind.

My Espresso is on average 20 on the dial. Assuming that 1200 microns is the FP target I got the following :-

One complete turn from my espresso setting of 20 equals 1,330 - too coarse

Turn back to mark 10 so almost 360 degrees equals 1,270 - still a bit coarse

Back to zero on the dial so 20 marks short of a complete turn from my espresso, equal 1,175 - I'll stick with this

For those with Hausgrind this is 2+1 on mine. For Feldgrind V1 this is 2+10 on mine

Obviously


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Thanks for this Ben, could I ask where you got your coffee catcher ring from? Think I'll invest in one


I think it was amazon


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Just found this in the freezer. Valve was taped over so fingers crossed it will be ok. Let's see if I can dial it in and make something drinkable.

Disclaimer - I shan't be blaming the grinder if I can't!









Cant post pic. It's some Has Bean coffee roasted in January.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

GingerBen said:


> I think it was amazon


Cheers, I'll have a look, I had a Google & just got lots of info about the coffee ring effect!


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Norvin said:


> Only had it a few days and modifying it already...
> 
> I love the design of the Niche but don't like the flat topped bolt that holds the bottom burr in place, so I have substituted it for a dome headed bolt. I think it looks better.
> 
> ...


Brilliant - the dome headed bolt also ensures a bean can't settle on the top as has happened once with mine....... how do I get one!?


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

kennyboy993 said:


> Brilliant - the dome headed bolt also ensures a bean can't settle on the top as has happened once with mine....... how do I get one!?


I made mine, but a quick ebay search for 'M6 dome head bolts' has revealed quite a few. The thread is M6 x 1.0mm. The shaft is 25mm.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

I've made a couple more spros (I'm quite wired right now) & discovered that giving the pf a sharp little downward tap before using the distribution tool seems to have stopped the "donutting".

I've still got a bit more experimenting to do but I am absolutely loving this grinder.

Big thanks to @DavecUK & @Nichecoffe for all your advice & hard work.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Stevebee said:


> After dialling in my Kalita Wave on the Niche (between the screw in the middle of lid hinge and left hinge) I've just done it for French Press. This is the "traditional" coarse grind FP as I know some do use a very fine grind fo FP, almost a V60 grind.
> 
> My Espresso is on average 20 on the dial. Assuming that 1200 microns is the FP target I got the following :-
> 
> ...


So for you a full turn to 0 on the Niche is around 2+10 on your Feldgrind? Makes sense, as that's where I seem to have settled on both Feldgrind and Niche for the beans I have at the moment. No way of measuring the grind size my end, was just the look and the flavour that I went on! Glad I've ended up somewhere close


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## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Thanks for this Ben, could I ask where you got your coffee catcher ring from? Think I'll invest in one


Look on eBay for 'coffee dosing funnel'.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

jonners said:


> Look on eBay for 'coffee dosing funnel'.


Perfect thank you


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

jaffro said:


> So for you a full turn to 0 on the Niche is around 2+10 on your Feldgrind? Makes sense, as that's where I seem to have settled on both Feldgrind and Niche for the beans I have at the moment. No way of measuring the grind size my end, was just the look and the flavour that I went on! Glad I've ended up somewhere close


spot on, zero on Niche (one revolution past and back to zero) is 2+10 on Feld V1


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## mrdan (Feb 10, 2017)

hello there fellow coffee addicts! how would you set your grinder for moccamaster, aprox. same as kalita wave?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Bit finer but judge by taste I'd say


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

jonners said:


> Look on eBay for 'coffee dosing funnel'.


Or better still contact Norvin on here sure he could help you out


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## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

Ooh, check out some of these bolts!

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Head+Bolt+M6+x+%281.00mm%29+x+25mm


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

They're so shiny!!


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Sure most have seen this but if not it's a very simple video showing how to calibrate. I just did mine and it was way off, although I was getting good results, it's nice to know it's where it should be


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## aoxomoxoa (May 2, 2017)

GingerBen said:


> Sure most have seen this but if not it's a very simple video showing how to calibrate. I just did mine and it was way off, although I was getting good results, it's nice to know it's where it should be


I checked mine the other day and it needed resetting. Espresso grind for Rave Honduras beans was 21, and now it's 18 for the same results.

It seems to me that the purpose of calibration is to have a known baseline if something changes (eg taking burrs out for cleaning) so it's quick and easy to dial back in? Other than that it's a purely arbitrary number. Or am I missing something?


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Well, calibrating is just for you. Unless you want to share settings with other people, but to be honest, with different coffee, baskets, machines, it doesn't make sense.

So you can set up the black ring however you want, just make sure you won't run the machine when burrs are touching (your real 0).

Some people that are using Niche for filter, probably will choose to re-calibrate the grinder so they see different setting then espresso users.

For espresso standard calibration is that it seats close to 20, but if you want the number to be 10 or 40, nothing prevents you from doing so. Most ergonomic way to calibrate is probably to set the black ring so it shows 25 for your most used coffee.

I was confused about the need of calibration before I get the grinder. Now I know how it works, it is really for your own convenience, not need to worry that much about that.


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

The issue with doing it that way, is having to find that spot again when cleaning the burrs, while if you calibrate you should only be a couple of numbers out at max, making it easy to dial in.



pj.walczak said:


> Well, calibrating is just for you. Unless you want to share settings with other people, but to be honest, with different coffee, baskets, machines, it doesn't make sense.
> 
> So you can set up the black ring however you want, just make sure you won't run the machine when burrs are touching (your real 0).
> 
> ...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Dayks said:


> The issue with doing it that way, is having to find that spot again when cleaning the burrs, while if you calibrate you should only be a couple of numbers out at max, making it easy to dial in.


Very true Also if you are careful to not move the calibration ring when you clean the burrs, then you should be able to return the grinder to the same setting with no need to recalibrate.


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

With a 15g basket and using CC's Mystery 8 my setting is 15. 40g out, 30secs. Compared to my K3, much fluffier in the basket, better crema. Taste similar Id say. Im hopeless describing that. I'll try a D&H lighter roast in a few days, that will be key.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

This grinder really is a joy to use. Everything just feels so much calmer than with my beloved Mazzer Mini.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

rdpx said:


> This grinder really is a joy to use. Everything just feels so much calmer than with my beloved Mazzer Mini.


This is my feeling too, it's taken the hassle out of using a commercial grinder in a domestic setting.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Here is another nice little point to restate....remember it's only going to get better and better as the burrs break in.


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## onthelathe (Oct 2, 2018)

I have found that the calibration on my Niche, as delivered, was 3 clicks of the black ring short of the calibration mark using the approved turning method. With the burrs being stationary I'm wondering if it is possible for the contact point to differ slightly each time depending on how the burrs align after they have finished rotating? If this was the case it would be difficult to get a uniform calibration across a number of different grinders.


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## mokapoka (Jun 20, 2011)

Has anyone compared the Niche vs a Mazzer Major? Would be interested to know how it compares taste wise. Also could we please see some photos of the fluffy grind.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Shouldn't be too difficult to find large conical vs large flat comparisons out there...


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Wouldn't mind seeing a comparison with a kony if only to see how 2 grinders with the same burrs stack up against each other.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

When you guys want to compare to other grinders, are you talking purely from what's in the cup or the other factors, such as workflow, retention, ease of use, etc?

I might still be in a honeymoon phase, but I don't think I'd go back to an on demand. For someone who makes 2 espresso (or espresso based drinks), it's hard to justify daily 1s purge and being stuck with the same bean for a week.

After owning Santos No4, couple of hand grinders (Lido, MBK, Hario) and Ceado E37s, Niche beats them all for a home enthusiast. It's just simply built for home use, but not in a bad way.


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## mokapoka (Jun 20, 2011)

PPapa said:


> When you guys want to compare to other grinders, are you talking purely from what's in the cup or the other factors, such as workflow, retention, ease of use, etc?
> 
> I might still be in a honeymoon phase, but I don't think I'd go back to an on demand. For someone who makes 2 espresso (or espresso based drinks), it's hard to justify daily 1s purge and being stuck with the same bean for a week.
> 
> After owning Santos No4, couple of hand grinders (Lido, MBK, Hario) and Ceado E37s, Niche beats them all for a home enthusiast. It's just simply built for home use, but not in a bad way.


I'm already convinced about the ease of use with Niche and more interested in the taste. I'm tempted to buy this grinder but hesitate because of absence of fork. I removed the fork from my Major and have been grinding into a cup for a while and I don't like it but if I could see some photos of fluffy grinds from the niche and be convinced taste wise I might buy it anyway.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> When you guys want to compare to other grinders, are you talking purely from what's in the cup or the other factors, such as workflow, retention, ease of use, etc?
> 
> I might still be in a honeymoon phase, but I don't think I'd go back to an on demand. For someone who makes 2 espresso (or espresso based drinks), it's hard to justify daily 1s purge and being stuck with the same bean for a week.
> 
> After owning Santos No4, couple of hand grinders (Lido, MBK, Hario) and Ceado E37s, Niche beats them all for a home enthusiast. It's just simply built for home use, but not in a bad way.


Everything really. Obviously what's in the cup matters but size, retention, value for money & ease of use etc has it's place too.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

rdpx said:


> Our Niche has arrived!
> 
> First impressions are that it is lovely and I was very quickly won over with how nice it is to use.
> 
> ...


How is the crema with your Rave El Salvador los Pireneos? the reason I ask is that I get a little bit but it disappears almost instantly.


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

When I wrote about 'fluffy grounds' it was with comparison with the K3. With the K3 the coffee would sit a mm or so below the top of the basket. First thing I noticed. Is it relevant, no idea, just an observation. No point photographing I think.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

eddie57 said:


> How is the crema with your Rave El Salvador los Pireneos? the reason I ask is that I get a little bit but it disappears almost instantly.


Hi Eddie

Crema has been looking good. I'll pay more attention tomorrow! Grind seemed a bit fine today with 18/30 in 35s, but it tasted fantastic.

R


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Ok well, my Wormhole portafilter funnel attachment arrived and I thought it might be enough to stop the coffee flying out of the basket when direct grinding into the porafilter. After a few attempts and finding the method that worked out best, I am sure it won't work, here is a video showing my best effort, it is slower and more painful than using the grind cup.

This particular coffee seems to stick in the chute also, losing about .5g somewhere?


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

Here is the grinds directly into the Niche cup and then from there into the portafilter, I didn't mess with it other then tapping each side to get the grinds to sit. This is setting 19 after zeroed Dave's way.

Sorry for the potato shots but it is the best I could do.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

rdpx said:


> Hi Eddie
> 
> Crema has been looking good. I'll pay more attention tomorrow! Grind seemed a bit fine today with 18/30 in 35s, but it tasted fantastic.
> 
> R


Cheers mate


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

I also get low crema, but did on the rocky too. I wonder if it is my Gaggia. Since using the Niche I am getting very high clarity shots. I also use it with the moccamaster. For that I am using my secondary marker technique (attach new marker at 25 when the first marker is pointing at middle hinge screw giving 180 degree marker to original). If I use the secondary markers I just call them prime and mark them using N' eg 20' for my notes vs 20 for the original.

For the moccamaster I am using about 25'-32'. The taste is much more delicate than the rocky, there is no bitterness our sourness, I can actually taste the water underneith. I see what you all meant before when you talk about the flavour punching through milk as I think adding milk would cover much of the taste. Looking forwards to trying it on more fresh beans as currently using up old beans. I will also enjoy a wider variety as I can easily taste the differences now. For spro my settings vary from 16 for 20 day old Rave cave de sol honey. Up to 22 for 15 day old Swiss water decaffe.

I am not getting the uggins of crema that I see on other peoples videos.

I also still learning to use the cup. I believe the difficulty is in filling the rim left around the grinds after you remove the cup from the PF. My theory is the gap is still there you just cover the top of it. I think tapping around the sides does fill it eventually, but you have to keep going even when it looks like its gone. I don't have a levelling tool so might get one to help out a bit.

With all that said its so easy to use, I had to stick to spro or filter using the rocky as I don't like messing with the machine, with the niche I just dial to filter and back (momentarily turning the machine on every 5-10 marks on the way back to spro). Even the bad shots taste good compared to rocky. When I dial back I either tap the outlet tube to remove about 0.1 or less of the coarser grinds/skin. Or send 3 or so beans through. If I am going from spro to spro or spro to coarse I don't bother.


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Here is another nice little point to restate....remember it's only going to get better and better as the burrs break in.


 Niche to know!







(sorry) I might have to wait a year or two at my rate but its doing a great job as is.. that it will get better is a real bonus.


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

My white Niche (ordered last December) is coming on Monday, it will replace my Fiorenzato Nano. I know where to start for espresso making but as a newcomer in filter coffee (just bought a Kalita 185), could anybody give me a clue about the grind setting? Sorry if this has been already sayd, have read about French press and other brewers settings but do not know which are similar to Kalita regarding grind size.

The wait has become more bearable reading all your experiences, thanks all for this!


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

tocateclas said:


> My white Niche (ordered last December) is coming on Monday, it will replace my Fiorenzato Nano. I know where to start for espresso making but as a newcomer in filter coffee (just bought a Kalita 185), could anybody give me a clue about the grind setting? Sorry if this has been already sayd, have read about French press and other brewers settings but do not know which are similar to Kalita regarding grind size.
> 
> The wait has become more bearable reading all your experiences, thanks all for this!


For me I use the following :

Espresso. 20

Moka Pot. 40

V60/Filter back to the calibration triangle (approx 700 microns)

Kalita between the center screw on the hinge and left hinge (approx 800 microns)

French Press back to zero. (Approx 1200 microns) this is for a traditional coarse FP


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

Stevebee said:


> For me I use the following :
> 
> Espresso. 20
> 
> ...


Thank you, will try as soon as the Niche comes


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stevebee said:


> For me I use the following :
> 
> French Press back to zero. (Approx 1200 microns) this is for a traditional coarse FP


Not sure that 1200um is "traditional" for French press, immersion grind was ~700um in the 50's, as is SCAA/Agtron cupping grind, Ditting marked FP at 900um.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

He anyone put any extra dark beans though yet? Extra dark Ethiopian wild highland from cc are covered in oil and even with a quick stir with a wet spoon I get a lot of static using the Pharos.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I've been using Compass Elephant, also very oily. Yes, Lots of static. And, yes, about the same as my Pharos...


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## JoshW (Dec 30, 2017)

mokapoka said:


> Has anyone compared the Niche vs a Mazzer Major? Would be interested to know how it compares taste wise. Also could we please see some photos of the fluffy grind.


I'll be looking to do this next week some time. My Niche arrived yesterday so I can do a side by side with the Major that I have been using for the last year.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Rob666 said:


> I've been using Compass Elephant, also very oily. Yes, Lots of static.


So do you get more retention or is it just static in the catch cup? Also do you use RDT?


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> So do you get more retention or is it just static in the catch cup? Also do you use RDT?


 @DavecUK mentioned that he thinks RDT wouldn't be a good idea with the Niche, I think because of the sweeping mechanism but not completely sure.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Primabarista said:



> Ok well, my Wormhole portafilter funnel attachment arrived and I thought it might be enough to stop the coffee flying out of the basket when direct grinding into the porafilter. After a few attempts and finding the method that worked out best, I am sure it won't work, here is a video showing my best effort, it is slower and more painful than using the grind cup.
> 
> This particular coffee seems to stick in the chute also, losing about .5g somewhere?


Why don't you use the cup? I tried grinding into PF but the results were not great. Grind into cup, quick stir (because it's a single dose grinder, the grinds will be of different particle sizes towards the end, as there's no pressure from the top. An experiment was done on this forum), to mix them all. Invert cup into portafilter (as per instructions) and there you go.

Ps: you are better off leaving the PF in the machine warming up rather than wait for all the grinds from the Niche to grind.


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## hangerhead (Oct 13, 2018)

I had a wega 6 model burr grinder (with my rancilios silvia).

All I can say is that the niche zero has removed any need for strirring or WDT methods as there has been zero clumping whatsoever.

It's quiet, well made, solid, the cup for catching the grinds is a great idea and I've less mess after two days (zero mess) compared to a single bout of using the wega









Very impressed so far.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Not sure that 1200um is "traditional" for French press, immersion grind was ~700um in the 50's, as is SCAA/Agtron cupping grind, Ditting marked FP at 900um.


To be honest it depends on what reference you decide to quote.

Handground say 1562, Coffegeek Baratza review say 1200-1300 whilst others quote 900-1000.

Haven't seen many as low as 700 though - that is normally reserved for drip / pour over. That's why I put traditional in quotations as some do seem to prefer a much finer grind than "normal"


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stevebee said:


> To be honest it depends on what reference you decide to quote.
> 
> Handground say 1562, Coffegeek Baratza review say 1200-1300 whilst others quote 900-1000.
> 
> Haven't seen many as low as 700 though - that is normally reserved for drip / pour over. That's why I put traditional in quotations as some do seem to prefer a much finer grind than "normal"


You generally need to be as fine, or finer than drip, to get similar extraction because you have no flow through the bed, like you do with drip which extracts more aggressively. 1562 would never extract in an immersion, unless you kept on the hob for 10's of minutes. In the UK preground for filter/cafetiere is often more like 500. I go finer than that for a small, glass press.

So it started out medium, went coarser somewhat recently, then back to med/finer even more recently again.

Of course, it's not a driving test, so do what works for you.  I just don't expect my drip & immersion brews to taste significantly different in terms of balance & fears of over-extraction are unfounded.


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Why don't you use the cup? I tried grinding into PF but the results were not great. Grind into cup, quick stir (because it's a single dose grinder, the grinds will be of different particle sizes towards the end, as there's no pressure from the top. An experiment was done on this forum), to mix them all. Invert cup into portafilter (as per instructions) and there you go.
> 
> Ps: you are better off leaving the PF in the machine warming up rather than wait for all the grinds from the Niche to grind.


That was the conclusion I came to also. I just wanted to give it a go, and give it a good chance of success, it is very messy and painstaking. The grind cup is clearly the best option.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

MWJB said:


> You generally need to be as fine, or finer than drip.


Whatever works for your taste. I would say that virtually any search / reference / guide etc.. shows French Press grind is coarser than pour over. Even if you buy preground , god forbid, it is noticeably coarser. I have refracted both but I rarely drink FP, more Kalita or straight Espresso I don't profess to an expert on this brewing method.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Rob1 said:


> So do you get more retention or is it just static in the catch cup? Also do you use RDT?


About the same static as my Pharos. Retention not an issue. Don't use RDT - yet...


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I'm torn between motorising the pharos and selling it to part fund a niche.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm torn between motorising the pharos and selling it to part fund a niche.


simply answer ... buy a Niche. If you can keep the Pharos as well even better as I love the Pharos. I have an original Pharos converted with the V2 kit but the difference in workflow is astounding. Taste in the cup is similar though so don't expect any improvement there. No retention ... really none, change from bean to bean - easy, grind adjustment from grind tio grind ... turn the dial .. no Allen keys required! Even with the v2 Pharos it still retains a good portion of the grind in spite of banging the cup etc...lot of static I think. Bangs per buck on the Pharos is exceptional. The new king in that department though is the Niche.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Ok well, my Wormhole portafilter funnel attachment arrived and I thought it might be enough to stop the coffee flying out of the basket when direct grinding into the porafilter. After a few attempts and finding the method that worked out best, I am sure it won't work, here is a video showing my best effort, it is slower and more painful than using the grind cup.
> 
> This particular coffee seems to stick in the chute also, losing about .5g somewhere?


Thanks for trying this and sharing. For a second i thought you had a slayer!


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

M_H_S said:


> Thanks for trying this and sharing. For a second i thought you had a slayer!


In my opinion the Slayer isn't as versatile as the Synesso, it was a tough decision choosing between the Kees Van De Westen (Speedster or Spirit were my second choice), the Strada, the Slayer and my ultimate choice the Synesso MVP Hydra.

I don't know how popular Synesso is in the UK, but a few top cafe's in Australia use them and they are huge in parts of Asia.


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Ok well, my Wormhole portafilter funnel attachment arrived and I thought it might be enough to stop the coffee flying out of the basket when direct grinding into the porafilter. After a few attempts and finding the method that worked out best, I am sure it won't work, here is a video showing my best effort, it is slower and more painful than using the grind cup.
> 
> This particular coffee seems to stick in the chute also, losing about .5g somewhere?


For me quite a long convoluted way to get your grind into the PF.

Surely it must be quicker grinding into the cup, inverting the PF and then flipping it over, leveling, then tamping.

Or is the PF less than 58mm?


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## ZappyAd (Jul 19, 2017)

Primabarista said:


> In my opinion the Slayer isn't as versatile as the Synesso, it was a tough decision choosing between the Kees Van De Westen (Speedster or Spirit were my second choice), the Strada, the Slayer and my ultimate choice the Synesso MVP Hydra.
> 
> I don't know how popular Synesso is in the UK, but a few top cafe's in Australia use them and they are huge in parts of Asia.


nice looking setup. How do the mythos and niche compare?


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Paul K said:


> For me quite a long convoluted way to get your grind into the PF.
> 
> Surely it must be quicker grinding into the cup, inverting the PF and then flipping it over, leveling, then tamping.
> 
> Or is the PF less than 58mm?


That's exactly what I was trying to show, if you watch my other video's I use the grind cup, I was just trying to give people an insight.


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

ZappyAd said:


> nice looking setup. How do the mythos and niche compare?


I'll be doing a full comparison this week with one of my favourite blends, just got to get through some beans first.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

I've found that with the DTP 54mm basket, the grind cup is just a bit smaller than the outside edge, so I can just line the cup and PF up and flip over, give it a tap and a shake, then just tamp and go.

I use a chop stick to give it a little stir after grinding and when I tip into the PF there are no clumps and looks pretty fluffy.

Yet I am getting a fair amount of spritzing, is there anything I can do to stop this? I'm using cherry cherry CC beans and a 53mm motta tamper ( I have always wondered if it's still not a great fit, it has a small amount of room left).

Other than this, the Niche is so easy to use and has made my process quicker, easier and cleaner!


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

Stevebee said:


> No retention ... really none,


I don't agree. It's very low but I am generally getting from 0.00 to 0.10 with up to +0.1 and I've had -0.15. So really good but not zero. I'm not seeing any significant signs of static externally.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dan1502 said:


> I don't agree. It's very low but I am generally getting from 0.00 to 0.10 with up to +0.1 and I've had -0.15. So really good but not zero. I'm not seeing any significant signs of static externally.


Does 0.1g really matter, will that really affect taste in the cup? That's approx. 0.7% of the coffee in your portafilter.


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## Topshot (Oct 10, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Does 0.1g really matter, will that really affect taste in the cup? That's approx. 0.7% of the coffee in your portafilter.


I agree, 0.1 is nothing at all, nobody will be able taste any difference.

Some people get too caught up with the numbers and forget about what making great coffee at home is all about, great taste nothing more, nothing less, as well as the enjoyment of making great coffee.


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've found that with the DTP 54mm basket, the grind cup is just a bit smaller than the outside edge, so I can just line the cup and PF up and flip over, give it a tap and a shake, then just tamp and go.
> 
> I use a chop stick to give it a little stir after grinding and when I tip into the PF there are no clumps and looks pretty fluffy.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a distribution issue, even though you're stirring the grinds. Have you ever tried the Perger method? It is a bit painful at first, but doesn't take long to learn and I do believe it helps, especially considering the way that the coffee tends to come out of the grind cup, it isn't always at an even depth. This method is worth a try and let us know if it helps at all? https://baristahustle.com/blog/how-to-distribute-by-tapping/


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Topshot said:


> I agree, 0.1 is nothing at all, nobody will be able taste any difference.
> 
> Some people get too caught up with the numbers and forget about what making great coffee at home is all about, great taste nothing more, nothing less, as well as the enjoyment of making great coffee.


Couldn't agree more, it is good to know that you can rely on your equipment to give you consistent results, though. I have had one coffee that regularly holds between .5 and 1 gram in the Niche, bit even that isn't the end of the world, just as long as it does it every time.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm torn between motorising the pharos and selling it to part fund a niche.


Do the latter. I used to own a Kinu M68. Great grinder, big burrs, Greer taste. But the faff to dose, and then clean it up afterwards wasn't the greatest. The Niche is the opposite: put coffee in, turn on, wait until everything is out (in the meantime go, the the PF out of the machine, dry it up), quick stir, dose into PF, tap, tamp, go. And there's nothing to clean up afterwards!


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

rdpx said:


> Our Niche has arrived!
> 
> First impressions are that it is lovely and I was very quickly won over with how nice it is to use.
> 
> ...


A great looking set up and combination, love the RSJ and riveted joint.

Jon.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Primabarista said:


> Sounds like a distribution issue, even though you're stirring the grinds. Have you ever tried the Perger method? It is a bit painful at first, but doesn't take long to learn and I do believe it helps, especially considering the way that the coffee tends to come out of the grind cup, it isn't always at an even depth. This method is worth a try and let us know if it helps at all? https://baristahustle.com/blog/how-to-distribute-by-tapping/


That's what I've been doing for a a couple of years. And I'm also using CC beans (red roast). No spritzers. In all honesty, i found over the years that CC beans are very well behaved. One thing that you can almost be sure is that CC beans will never give you a spritzer, unless your distribution technique is far from semi perfect.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Sounds like a distribution issue, even though you're stirring the grinds. Have you ever tried the Perger method? It is a bit painful at first, but doesn't take long to learn and I do believe it helps, especially considering the way that the coffee tends to come out of the grind cup, it isn't always at an even depth. This method is worth a try and let us know if it helps at all? https://baristahustle.com/blog/how-to-distribute-by-tapping/


Thank you! I have sort of been doing that, but not to that level, I didn't think it was that important..

Looking forward to trying it when I get home later!


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's what I've been doing for a a couple of years. And I'm also using CC beans (red roast). No spritzers. In all honesty, i found over the years that CC beans are very well behaved. One thing that you can almost be sure is that CC beans will never give you a spritzer, unless your distribution technique is far from semi perfect.


Ok that's good to hear, sorry I don't have any suggestions then.


----------



## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> In my opinion the Slayer isn't as versatile as the Synesso, it was a tough decision choosing between the Kees Van De Westen (Speedster or Spirit were my second choice), the Strada, the Slayer and my ultimate choice the Synesso MVP Hydra.
> 
> I don't know how popular Synesso is in the UK, but a few top cafe's in Australia use them and they are huge in parts of Asia.


Another point of note is how well the NICHE sits with peoples work stations, another crackling set up.

Jon.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Primabarista said:



> Ok that's good to hear, sorry I don't have any suggestions then.


To the contrary, I think your suggestion was spot on!

Edit: I was meant to have quoted @jonnycooper29 post


----------



## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

@DavecUK thanks for tip regarding stirring coffee. Struggling before this to get a decent pour from a naked portafilter. Works everytime now


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Stevebee said:


> simply answer ... buy a Niche. If you can keep the Pharos as well even better as I love the Pharos. I have an original Pharos converted with the V2 kit but the difference in workflow is astounding. Taste in the cup is similar though so don't expect any improvement there. No retention ... really none, change from bean to bean - easy, grind adjustment from grind tio grind ... turn the dial .. no Allen keys required! Even with the v2 Pharos it still retains a good portion of the grind in spite of banging the cup etc...lot of static I think. Bangs per buck on the Pharos is exceptional. The new king in that department though is the Niche.


The v2 Pharos has a catch cup, how'd you manage to get retention? Mine is 1.0 vdd modded and I get only the retention of the coffee that's stuck to the burrs (0.06g today). The thing is if I have an oily bean or one particularly prone to static I have to use a little brush to clean off the underside of the burr or retention is a whopping 1g. Other than that there's no faff that can't easily be solved with a portafilter funnel. My question regarding retention with the niche was purely a way of asking about static in a way that was meaningful, I.e. is the coffee clinging around the burrs exit as it can with the pharos or is it in the exit chute/cup.


----------



## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

CoffeeChris said:


> @DavecUK thanks for tip regarding stirring coffee. Struggling before this to get a decent pour from a naked portafilter. Works everytime now


Same here, this tip has had a positive effect on my pour. At first I was suffering from channeling and poor distribution but since introducing the stir, perfect every time.


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

I found the difference between the setting for espresso and ristretto about three dots.


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Ok that's good to hear, sorry I don't have any suggestions then.


Ok, so I tried this as best I could, and again, spritzing. The shot seems to pour pretty quick (17g->34g in 20s), and somewhat lacks in crema, which I know isn't the be all and end all, but would expect more from week old CC beans.

It tastes ok, and I'm getting a more distinctive flavour with the Niche than I was with the SGP or Aergrind, but I know it's still not right!

The spritzing is pretty annoying, and the trail of coffee spirals quite fast. If I need to video my process I will!


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Ok, so I tried this as best I could, and again, spritzing. The shot seems to pour pretty quick (17g->34g in 20s), and somewhat lacks in crema, which I know isn't the be all and end all, but would expect more from week old CC beans.
> 
> It tastes ok, and I'm getting a more distinctive flavour with the Niche than I was with the SGP or Aergrind, but I know it's still not right!
> 
> The spritzing is pretty annoying, and the trail of coffee spirals quite fast. If I need to video my process I will!


Taste is everything but 20s seems a bit fast.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Ok, so I tried this as best I could, and again, spritzing. The shot seems to pour pretty quick (17g->34g in 20s), and somewhat lacks in crema, which I know isn't the be all and end all, but would expect more from week old CC beans.
> 
> It tastes ok, and I'm getting a more distinctive flavour with the Niche than I was with the SGP or Aergrind, but I know it's still not right!
> 
> The spritzing is pretty annoying, and the trail of coffee spirals quite fast. If I need to video my process I will!


Can't you tighten up the grind a little...I'd suggest 2 marks tighter.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

jonnycooper29 said:


> The shot seems to pour pretty quick (17g->34g in 20s), and somewhat lacks in crema...


I'd probably adjust the grind to sort out the fast pour before worrying too much about the spritzing.

The Niche seems to have ended my spraying issue. I give the cup a good shake before tipping it into the pf, then just smoosh it flat with my palm, and so far (fingers crossed) goodbye to sprays.

R


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Can't you tighten up the grind a little...I'd suggest 2 marks tighter.


Thanks, I'll give this a go first, then focus on the spraying.

My worry is I have the 53mm tamper for a 54mm basket and it's the puck edges causing the problem..

My other worry is that it's the channelling that's causing the fast pour!

I will report back once I've gone finer


----------



## 322 (Sep 2, 2016)

I tend to shake in the cup then stir once the grinds are in the portafilter. Level it off and then I get a decent pour every time. When I tried tapping it was all over the place and the shots would run fast.


----------



## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

My method now consists of the Niche cup for the grinds; then I use a "Norpro 248" canning funnel over my portafilter and empty the contents into it. A little swiry swirly and tamp. Works like clockwork. You could just grind directly into the funnel/portafilter but I like the hands off during this process.


----------



## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Does 0.1g really matter, will that really affect taste in the cup? That's approx. 0.7% of the coffee in your portafilter.


I didn't say it matters, just pointing out it's not zero. It's at the point I don't feel the need to weigh what comes out. A bit like with the EK but I suspect that displaces more.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dan1502 said:


> I didn't say it matters, just pointing out it's not zero. It's at the point I don't feel the need to weigh what comes out. A bit like with the EK but I suspect that displaces more.


Same here. I just accept that the retention is close to zero. Doesn't affect my shots, so happy. In comparison, I used to own a Profitec T64 before, where retention was around 6g, being the sole drinker of the household, that was a considerable waste. Then bought a Kinu M68, no retention, but the static and faff wasn't for me. The grinder quality and taste in the cup was great. Now, with the Niche, negligible retention, great workflow, great flavour in the cup, motorised, mess-free. I'm in heaven.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> The v2 Pharos has a catch cup, how'd you manage to get retention? Mine is 1.0 vdd modded and I get only the retention of the coffee that's stuck to the burrs (0.06g today). The thing is if I have an oily bean or one particularly prone to static I have to use a little brush to clean off the underside of the burr or retention is a whopping 1g. Other than that there's no faff that can't easily be solved with a portafilter funnel. My question regarding retention with the niche was purely a way of asking about static in a way that was meaningful, I.e. is the coffee clinging around the burrs exit as it can with the pharos or is it in the exit chute/cup.


There does seem to be more static on the Pharos. On the Niche the sweeper arms must do a good job of clearing the coffee. It's more the grind adjustment between beans, going to any other brew method and getting the grinds from the catch cup to portafilter that are just much easier, almost a pleasure, on the Niche. Still not selling the Pharos though as the grind it gives is excellent


----------



## onthelathe (Oct 2, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Ok, so I tried this as best I could, and again, spritzing. The shot seems to pour pretty quick (17g->34g in 20s), and somewhat lacks in crema, which I know isn't the be all and end all, but would expect more from week old CC beans.
> 
> It tastes ok, and I'm getting a more distinctive flavour with the Niche than I was with the SGP or Aergrind, but I know it's still not right!
> 
> The spritzing is pretty annoying, and the trail of coffee spirals quite fast. If I need to video my process I will!


I don't know if this helps but I'm grinding 17.5g on setting 23 (calibrated as per instructions) and tamped fairly firmly using Sage tamper to get a level bed which the Razor just grazes. I then get an extraction of 36g in about 38 seconds.


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

onthelathe said:


> I don't know if this helps but I'm grinding 17.5g on setting 23 (calibrated as per instructions) and tamped fairly firmly using Sage tamper to get a level bed which the Razor just grazes. I then get an extraction of 36g in about 38 seconds.


Thanks! I feel like the calibration is not particularly consistent with each other, I've gone to 'finger tight' with two fingers, and I'm down to setting 12 for these beans..


----------



## onthelathe (Oct 2, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Thanks! I feel like the calibration is not particularly consistent with each other, I've gone to 'finger tight' with two fingers, and I'm down to setting 12 for these beans..


Quite a difference!


----------



## hangerhead (Oct 13, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Thanks! I feel like the calibration is not particularly consistent with each other, I've gone to 'finger tight' with two fingers, and I'm down to setting 12 for these beans..


I'd suggest that's closer to a french-press.

I'm using a grind of around 23 on 15 grams as I get used to re-calibrating and changing the heat on my silvia/PID. and that is a touch tight, taking this morning, 40seconds.


----------



## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Sorry if this has already been asked but there are a lot of pages to run through. I'm currently awaiting delivery of my niche grinder.

Does anyone use the grinder for both espresso a filter brews? Mine will be replacing both a Santos no.1 used for filter and a mignon.

Interested to know how it performs and how much adjustment is necessary.


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

rdpx said:


> I'd probably adjust the grind to sort out the fast pour before worrying too much about the spritzing.
> 
> The Niche seems to have ended my spraying issue. I give the cup a good shake before tipping it into the pf, then just smoosh it flat with my palm, and so far (fingers crossed) goodbye to sprays.
> 
> R


Took the grind a few notches too far and I got 17g->34g in 34s. I say it was too fine as it was a touch bitter for me! But no spritzing and lovely crema.

A step in the right direction!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Robbo said:


> Sorry if this has already been asked but there are a lot of pages to run through. I'm currently awaiting delivery of my niche grinder.
> 
> Does anyone use the grinder for both espresso a filter brews? Mine will be replacing both a Santos no.1 used for filter and a mignon.
> 
> Interested to know how it performs and how much adjustment is necessary.


It's easy enough to dial back and forwards. I've done so a couple of times without issues.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm dosing 15g into a VST (for now) and I've not had any sprites yet. I've had a few pinholes.

I've found that getting the grinds initially level seems to help. The problem with this is trying to get them into the basket without forming the north side of the Eiger on one side. I haven't found a consistent way to avoid this yet. I normally end up levelling with a finger first, and then using levelling tool etc. If I use the levelling tool only I guess the puck density must vary.


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> I'm dosing 15g into a VST (for now) and I've not had any sprites yet. I've had a few pinholes.
> 
> I've found that getting the grinds initially level seems to help. The problem with this is trying to get them into the basket without forming the north side of the Eiger on one side. I haven't found a consistent way to avoid this yet. I normally end up levelling with a finger first, and then using levelling tool etc. If I use the levelling tool only I guess the puck density must vary.


Same, I get a few dead patches even with a good stir in the basket after dumping them in. Pretty sure it's as much about the coffee as it is the distribution though. I'm drinking Square Mile Los Girasoles at the moment and it seems prone to patchy looking shots but the coffee I had previously, Has Bean October SSSSS always looked lovely. Technique is getting better now.


----------



## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

I can certainly endorse the comments of the last two posters. Im struggling to get an even mound. A distribution tool may be in order, although the brush of a finger works well. Im currently on a LSOL coffee from D&H, its the Bunaberry Avon Espresso (more about later maybe, its been quite a revelation). Similar to GingerBen Im getting a very patchy output looking at the naked pf. could this be a distribution, tamping or coffee issue?.


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

MalcolmH said:


> I can certainly endorse the comments of the last two posters. Im struggling to get an even mound. A distribution tool may be in order, although the brush of a finger works well. Im currently on a LSOL coffee from D&H, its the Bunaberry Avon Espresso (more about later maybe, its been quite a revelation). Similar to GingerBen Im getting a very patchy output looking at the naked pf. could this be a distribution, tamping or coffee issue?.


Please remember that a distribution tool only will only affect the top layer of the puck, nothing can replace your best effects to get the lower layers even and consistent. Stirring with a paperclip or toothpick can help and the distribution tool will smooth out any bumps on top before you tamp. A correctly set distribution tool does not move coffee grounds in the mid layer. It is a great addition to what you can do without a tool, it isn't a replacement for a good manual distribution method.

P.S. there are a number of recently produced tools that are designed to manipulate the whole puck, the information provided above is describing the effects of a traditional style distribution tool.

Attached is the tool I use, it is a high quality product, but not a must have.


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Crema from any bean I've ever had has been fowl. I used to skim it off but now I stir it in as it's really part of an espresso, just not palatable by itself. Just saying, "lovely crema" doesn't exist except in appearance, so not getting a lot of it isn't anything to cry about, though of course a lack of crema can be a sign of low extraction.

@MalcolmH Learn to tap.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Please remember that a distribution tool only will only affect the top layer of the puck, nothing can replace your best effects to get the lower layers even and consistent. Stirring with a paperclip or toothpick can help and the distribution tool will smooth out any bumps on top before you tamp. A correctly set distribution tool does not move coffee grounds in the mid layer. It is a great addition to what you can do without a tool, it isn't a replacement for a good manual distribution method.
> 
> P.S. there are a number of recently produced tools that are designed to manipulate the whole puck, the information provided above is describing the effects of a traditional style distribution tool.
> 
> Attached is the tool I use, it is a high quality product, but not a must have.


Which tools manipulate the whole puck?


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

MalcolmH said:


> I can certainly endorse the comments of the last two posters. Im struggling to get an even mound. A distribution tool may be in order, although the brush of a finger works well. Im currently on a LSOL coffee from D&H, its the Bunaberry Avon Espresso (more about later maybe, its been quite a revelation). Similar to GingerBen Im getting a very patchy output looking at the naked pf. could this be a distribution, tamping or coffee issue?.


before the niche, i used to grind into a small ceramic cup, and the then pour into the PF. might give that a go, as it would give a seemingly better looking mound (i.e. centralised). i do like the idea of the niche cup though as i like to keep everything clean - if anyone has a definitive cup inversion technique, i'd like to see the video...


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## marknewham (Oct 9, 2018)

I am awaiting my niche and have no grinder







If anyone wants to loan me their old one for a small fee i'd be eternally grateful!!


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

M_H_S said:


> Which tools manipulate the whole puck?


Sadly I've got no info on wether these actually work or not, I just thought it necessary to mention them to be thorough. My personal guess is they aren't extremely affective or you would think we would see them used more widely.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

M_H_S said:


> Which tools manipulate the whole puck?


The DUOMO WDT Tool.

http://Koffeez.kr/6


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Sadly I've got no info on wether these actually work or not, I just thought it necessary to mention them to be thorough. My personal guess is they aren't extremely affective or you would think we would see them used more widely.


Wow. I actually invented something like this in my head. Both disappointed and glad that it already exists. I would have done it with just 3 pins though so turning the tool would create 3 concentric circular stir paths.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

tohenk2 said:


> The DUOMO WDT Tool.
> 
> http://Koffeez.kr/6


A chopped up whisker doesn't cost 200USD and I believe it works just as well!


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> A chopped up whisker doesn't cost 200USD and I believe it works just as well!


So does a fruit fork though a (Norvin) dosing ring comes in handy for not losing any grinds.


----------



## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

This...


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> A chopped up whisker doesn't cost 200USD and I believe it works just as well!


I'll grab the cat


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I'll grab the cat


You use a blender to blend things, a roller to roll things, a grinder to grind things and so on, but a whisk to whisk things?!

English isn't my first language, as you can imagine... it keeps surprising me!


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

PPapa said:


> a roller to roll things


Nope, you'd use a rolling pin!











marknewham said:


> I am awaiting my niche and have no grinder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd be very happy to lend you my Mazzer Mini E on a permanent basis for the small fee of £250.

>>>>>>

More pertinently to the thread...

I've been using 18g of coffee in a double basket, and our Niche set at 24 has been giving me perfect shots.

Today I thought I'd try a triple basket and put in 24g, but I forgot to change the grind to compensate for the extra coffee so of course it just choked.

I was wondering how much do you think one might want to loosen up the grind if switching from 18g to 24g? Would 1 point be enough? I will try it and find out soon enough, I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts on it.

R


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> You use a blender to blend things, a roller to roll things, a grinder to grind things and so on, but a whisk to whisk things?!
> 
> English isn't my first language, as you can imagine... it keeps surprising me!


I get confused with the masculine feminine thing in other languages. In the UK a thing is just a thing, it has no masculine or feminine about it, but french Italian etc.. arghhh. However, english is confusing.

You can:

*Lead* from the front

Melt *Lead* for fishing weights

Take the dog out on a *lead*



*
*At least two of them sound different.

Then the context sensitive words that sound the same but mean totally different things:

Read

Reed

Need

Knead

It's amazing anyone ever learns English....they certainly have not fully mastered it in many parts of the UK.


----------



## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

PPapa said:


> You use a blender to blend things, a roller to roll things, a grinder to grind things and so on, but a whisk to whisk things?!
> 
> English isn't my first language, as you can imagine... it keeps surprising me!


That's absolutely correct. Cats have whiskers, but they don't use them for whisking!


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

jonners said:


> That's absolutely correct. Cats have whiskers, but they don't use them for whisking!


In Scotland we have two that are positive by themselves, but negative when used together. They are 'Aye Right'.

Aye - meaning 'Yes'

Right - 'Correct, yes that's right'

When put together 'Aye Right' means the sarcastic response to someone who you suspect is lying, or the response to some you suspect is trying to make a fool of you. 'Aye Right so you will'


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

I knew this would happen sooner or later...


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

rdpx said:


> Nope, you'd use a rolling pin!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have received mine this morning and have tried to switch between the 18g and 15g VST baskets. About 3 or 4 points finer to get similar ratio with the 15g basket. Not many shots so could not be sure, but I think 1 point will be not enough.


----------



## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

Inglorious Alf said:


> I knew this would happen sooner or later...


But now you get to see why that wooden coaster can be taken off easily.









Received my Niche today and am in love with it so far. But I have to come up with some sensible dosing method for my 54mm portafilter.


----------



## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I get confused with the masculine feminine thing in other languages. In the UK a thing is just a thing, it has no masculine or feminine about it, but french Italian etc.. arghhh. However, english is confusing.
> 
> You can:
> 
> ...


The Chaos is a marvellous piece, I find most English people struggle with a few words!

http://ncf.idallen.com/english.html


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

kiisupai said:


> But now you get to see why that wooden coaster can be taken off easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm guessing from the "NICHE 58MM" etched in the bottom of the cup that the long term plan is maybe to make cups to fit different diameter pfs?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

rdpx said:


> I'm guessing from the "NICHE 58MM" etched in the bottom of the cup that the long term plan is maybe to make cups to fit different diameter pfs?


I've used one of this as an adaptor, after someone recommended here on this thread: works wonders. Greet service, mine arrived next day!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173173346812

Edit: one day I'll learn to reply to the right post....


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kiisupai said:


> But now you get to see why that wooden coaster can be taken off easily.
> 
> Received my Niche today and am in love with it so far. But I have to come up with some sensible dosing method for my 54mm portafilter.


I've used one of this as an adaptor, after someone recommended here on this thread: works wonders. Great service, mine arrived next day!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173173346812


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I've used one of this as an adaptor, after someone recommended here on this thread: works wonders. Great service, mine arrived next day!
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173173346812


+1 for the above. And with the funnel still in place, I give the PF a quick stir with the prong tool - perfect distribution with zero mess!!


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Just found this very quick guide to calibrating the Niche if you should feel the need. No offence meant to your superb video DavecUk which included this very subject in fine detail and is possibly the more correct way of doing it, especially cleaning out the old grinds first which just has to be more accurate.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

To me, thats wrong.......all she did was move the white dot back and forwards


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

She was doing it correctly, it was just a bit more fast and loose without much explanation. She was turning the whole top until finger tight, then moving the calibration ring to the mark and then moving the whole top back around into the espresso range.


----------



## ZappyAd (Jul 19, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> To me, thats wrong.......all she did was move the white dot back and forwards


It looked ok to me - she was moving the dot in two different ways using the silver top and then the black adjustment ring.

It was all happening quite fast so you had to pay attention but possibly that was deliberate to demonstrate how easy it is to do.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

It's not rocket science to calibrate. You've just got to look what you're doing..

Unlike this person


----------



## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

Thank you all for the funnel recommendation. Delivery is a bit pricey to where I am (10 pounds), but I'll live with it.

Since we're on the subject of calibration: is it normal for the burrs to touch at around 1/8th a rotation from the calibration point? At least that is where I start to get a different sound when I switch it on.


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> To me, thats wrong.......all she did was move the white dot back and forwards


Why oh why after years to get this to market and with it receiving such high praise would Niche be so daft as to release a video that was in anyway incorrect? I just don't see that happening.....


----------



## HoratiuC (Jul 9, 2018)

Yesterday, after 13 months (minus 2 days) since I placed the order, I received my Niche in Romania. First impressions after few shots:


I was amazed on how quiet it is. I have viewed videos of it and based on them I thought it to be much noisier than it actually is.

Confirming almost zero retention: 0 - 0.1 g

Factory calibration seems OK: initial setting was at 20 and first shot was extracted very fast (10 sec); for the second shot I set it up to 16 but the flow was still too fast; third try was with the white dot at 10 (in the espresso area) and I got 17g in / 34g out in 35 sec; for the last shot the setting was at 11 and the outcome was 17 g in / 34 g out in 30 sec. My espresso machine is a Brewtus 4.

I am perceiving a better taste in the cup compared with my Kinu M47 grinder but I need to experiment with more types of coffee before reaching a conclusion.

The only area of improvement that I can think of is to have better finishing quality for the interior area of the provided cup.


Thanks to Niche Zero team for a great product and DavecUK for his review that made me buy it.


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Factory calibration seems OK: initial setting was at 20 and first shot was extracted very fast (10 sec); for the second shot I set it up to 16 but the flow was still too fast; third try was with the white dot at 10 (in the espresso area) and I got 17g in / 34g out in 35 sec; for the last shot the setting was at 11 and the outcome was 17 g in / 34 g out in 30 sec.

Same experience except I'm on 8 for espresso although I do prefer 'a long slow one' pun intended, no idea timewise just go via taste and adjust to suit my preference.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I said, it looked wrong, and it does. All those holier than thou, have had the benefit of watching @DavecUK explaining it properly. Her video does not explain it properly.....thank you and goodnight


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> I said, it looked wrong, and it does. All those holier than thou, have had the benefit of watching @DavecUK explaining it properly. Her video does not explain it properly.....thank you and goodnight


I watched it too and I agree. It seems very misleading. Stick with the @DavecUK version.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Peter Jackson has asked me to help on his next big film Lord of the Niche


----------



## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

I once saw an amusing thread on a forum for describing a film in one sentence. For The Lord of the Rings the answer has always stuck with me "Hobbits go for a walk, hobbits go home".

So with this in mind I guess Dave's script will be "coffee goes in grinder, same coffee comes out". Probably won't need 3 films and extended versions or half of the first book being devoted to the lineage and family tree of the burrs and other components


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Beanz meanz finez?

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

eddie57 said:


> How is the crema with your Rave El Salvador los Pireneos? the reason I ask is that I get a little bit but it disappears almost instantly.


18/34 30s just now


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Is anyone going to start a Niche Owners Group thread . . . The strap line could be, 'Join us! You'll get out of it what you put in'


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

MildredM said:


> Is anyone going to start a Niche Owners Group thread . . . The strap line could be, 'Join us! You'll get out of it what you put in'


It'll be short-lived, everyone will leave - zero retention you see!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

The owners group might have Niche on the forum


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Is anyone going to start a Niche Owners Group thread . . . The strap line could be, 'Join us! You'll get out of it what you put in'


 Whole beans?


----------



## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

rdpx said:


> 18/34 30s just now


Yeah, that's pretty much what I get. thanks


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Did anyone end up buying test tubes or similar for dosing? I got some 60ml screw tins that do work, but it's difficult to organise them without writing on them with the whiteboard marker - this is what I've been doing to bring beans to work for AeroPress.

It's just nice to put beans in and weighing out is really unnecessary. 18.1g in, 18.0-18.1g out anyway.

I am tempted by a combination of...

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32864016259.html?pid=808_0000_0201&spm=a2g0n.search-amp.list.32864016259

Together with

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32854563127.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32854563127&productSubject=Plastic-Test-Tube-Rack-for-30mm-Tube-21-Well-White-Detachable-21-Hole

Would upgrade to a wooden rack if I end up liking such setup, just really not sure about width!


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I bought some of these, but they are probably thousands of miles away still

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Bamboo-Tube-Small-Empty-Bottles-Mini-Storage-Jar-For-Spices-Tea-Box-Container-With-Lid-Sample/32916605619.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.19774c4d9osJGM


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

I think I got this one from someone who had a whole boxful of them a couple of years back. Shown with 18g of beans ready for when my partner needs it in the morning.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

PPapa said:


> Did anyone end up buying test tubes or similar for dosing? I got some 60ml screw tins that do work, but it's difficult to organise them without writing on them with the whiteboard marker - this is what I've been doing to bring beans to work for AeroPress.
> 
> It's just nice to put beans in and weighing out is really unnecessary. 18.1g in, 18.0-18.1g out anyway.
> 
> ...


I'm finding it extremely difficult to resist buying this:

https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-glass/


----------



## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I'm finding it extremely difficult to resist buying this:
> 
> https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-glass/


Fortunately there is a simple cure - just scroll down to where it lists the price as $255.95 and that should be more than enough to put you off!


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> Whole beans?


Yes, if you didn't calibrate correctly.


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I'm finding it extremely difficult to resist buying this:
> 
> https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-glass/


They are beautiful and if you have the cash then why not!


----------



## hifimacianer (Sep 27, 2018)

A question regarding the calibration:

It seems that most of you use a setting of 15-22 for your espresso shots, and rarely set the Niche to lower values.

On the other hand, most of the users who use the Niche for Filter or FP, have to set it beyond the scale (screw of the hinge, or even more). Wouldn't it be possible to calibrate the Niche in a way, that "15 is the new zero"? Is it possible to do it in a way, that it is repeatable after cleaning?


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm on 13, 14 and 18 for the three beans I have going. That's right, three I say! That's how I roll now, thanks to Niche.

But - I am dosing 15g and most seem to be on 18g.


----------



## Gatty (Dec 26, 2017)

hifimacianer said:


> A question regarding the calibration:
> 
> It seems that most of you use a setting of 15-22 for your espresso shots, and rarely set the Niche to lower values.
> 
> On the other hand, most of the users who use the Niche for Filter or FP, have to set it beyond the scale (screw of the hinge, or even more). Wouldn't it be possible to calibrate the Niche in a way, that "15 is the new zero"? Is it possible to do it in a way, that it is repeatable after cleaning?


I don't see why not if you'd like to - the black ring can be moved independently of the silver funnel at any time, so you could calibrate as per the instructions and then offset the black ring by 10-15 marks to the left. That would make a post calibration '20' read on your dial as a lower number. Would be as repeatable as everyone else's calibration (relies heavily on everyone's definition of finger tight)


----------



## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Yes, it's typically about common reference points on the type of bean rather than the absolute number being the same for everyone. It feels like this article I wrote years ago is as relevant (or irrelevant!) today as it was then.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/espresso-grind-table

Personally at the moment I am using:

Peru 13.5

El Salavador 14

Costa Rican 14

Rwandan 16

Brazilian 19

As I have several kilos of each it's helpful to me to dial a bean in straight away when I haven't used it for a while.


----------



## drkabuto (Oct 17, 2018)

rdpx said:


> I think I got this one from someone who had a whole boxful of them a couple of years back. Shown with 18g of beans ready for when my partner needs it in the morning.


can you give us the length and diameter of these test tubes? size looks very appropriate to me! thank you!!

Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk


----------



## Kilo (Dec 1, 2012)

I use these. They hold just over 19 grams. Cheap, that is if you have any use for the cream.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

MildredM said:


> They are beautiful and if you have the cash then why not!


Hi Mildred, I see in your signature that you have the LW Bean Cellar & Caddy?

I'd be interested to hear you thoughts and/or any opinions?

I have a weakness for highly engineered, beautiful objects and gadgets you see lol


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

drkabuto said:


> can you give us the length and diameter of these test tubes? size looks very appropriate to me! thank you!!
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPad utilizando Tapatalk


25x150mm

Completely filled it holds c.25g


----------



## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

MildredM said:


> They are beautiful and if you have the cash then why not!


However, if you buy the smaller ones (as I did) and you roast very dark (as I do) you may find that you can't actually fit 16g of beans into it (as I found).

I eventually bought two sets of the larger (commercial) sized ones. I also have a beautiful hand-made wooden holder for them - courtesy of a forum member!


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Snagged one of these - not 'beautiful' but good enough.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wooden-Spice-Rack-With-10-Jars-Herb-Kitchen-Storage-Acacia-Wood-Jar-Stand-Bottle/183074717346?hash=item2aa01a7ea2:rk:1f:0


----------



## hifimacianer (Sep 27, 2018)

Gatty said:


> I don't see why not if you'd like to - the black ring can be moved independently of the silver funnel at any time, so you could calibrate as per the instructions and then offset the black ring by 10-15 marks to the left. That would make a post calibration '20' read on your dial as a lower number. Would be as repeatable as everyone else's calibration (relies heavily on everyone's definition of finger tight)


Thanks for your clarification! Can't wait to get my Black Niche soon.

I'll use it in the Filter-FP range most of the time, so I'll look forward to calibrate it in way that makes sense for me.

And even if I buy an Espresse machine in the near future (looking for the Cafelat Robot), I'll probably find a calibration setting that covers the full range.


----------



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

hifimacianer said:


> Thanks for your clarification! Can't wait to get my Black Niche soon.
> 
> I'll use it in the Filter-FP range most of the time, so I'll look forward to calibrate it in way that makes sense for me.
> 
> And even if I buy an Espresse machine in the near future (looking for the Cafelat Robot), I'll probably find a calibration setting that covers the full range.


Ive already mentioned this. But I put a second marker on the calibration ring (the black ring) you can put this at 180 degrees to the original marker by:

Put the original white dot to the central lid hinge screw on the back

Place your secondary marker on the black ring at 25 on the niche

I then read the secondary values as X' as apposed to X for the original. I use 15-22 for espresso and 25' 32' for filter/drip.

I checked and the calibration mark is 180 degrees from 15, so you could also use those two to get a 180 degree reference.

I used a tiny piece of bluetack for my secondary marker. Make sure it doesnt contact the lid at the narrowest point (the 25 point).

It would be useful to all use similar methods, and then I know what to do to repeat your values.


----------



## HoratiuC (Jul 9, 2018)

You can use something like this from IKEA for storing coffee beans: https://www.ikea.com/ro/ro/catalog/products/80282067/

Link is from IKEA Romania but you can search for RIMFORSA container.


----------



## HoratiuC (Jul 9, 2018)

You can use something like this from IKEA for storing coffee beans: https://www.ikea.com/ro/ro/catalog/products/80282067/

Link is from IKEA Romania but you can search for RIMFORSA container and holder.


----------



## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/kitchen-products/kitchen-organisers-shelves/rimforsa-container-tube-shaped-glass-art-80282067/ - Link to the UK ones


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Diggy87 said:


> https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/products/kitchen-products/kitchen-organisers-shelves/rimforsa-container-tube-shaped-glass-art-80282067/ - Link to the UK ones


I reckon they'd hold about 65g each.


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

But you are aware how impractical those tubes are?

Rounded bottom, they can't stand, you need to buy something more to keep them stranding.

Rounded - if you put them on the table they will probably start rolling. And they are from glass, so they will crash quite often.

Coffee cannot be vented, who knows what will happen with the glass.

They are transparent. Coffee doesn't like light.

Transferring beans into them will be a nightmare. Again you need some more equipment to do this. And hopper in Niche is better then in LWW HG-1, you don't need a tube to transfer coffee to the grinder.

There is nothing better you can do for your fresh coffee then buying it in 250 g bags, open, take your dose, squeeze the bag to remove the air close, put in dark place free of any smells. (this is the reason why sometimes putting the bag into airtight container might be good idea.)


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I have a really silly question, now I was told the only silly question is the one that's not asked!

Given the Niche is a single dose grinder with practically zero retention, I take it I can grind a variety of beans on the go at the same time. For example and El Salvador, an Ethiopian, and espresso blend without having to worry about cross contamination.

Would that be correct?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Paul K said:


> I have a really silly question, now I was told the only silly question is the one that's not asked!
> 
> Given the Niche is a single dose grinder with practically zero retention, I take it I can grind a variety of beans on the go at the same time. For example and El Salvador, an Ethiopian, and espresso blend without having to worry about cross contamination.
> 
> Would that be correct?


Yes, as long as you are not making big jumps in grind setting.


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Correct you can play with different coffes with Niche. If you are purist you can maybe purge 3-4 coffee beans, but for me this is overkill with this grinder.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Retention or exchange? I'm guessing with retention, what's in there isn't going anywhere as it's moulded into the crevices (what there are).


----------



## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Not silly at all, exactly what I was referring to in my previous post. I am alternating between the beans I mentioned for single 11.4g shots with adjustment of the collar and no purging.



Paul K said:


> I have a really silly question, now I was told the only silly question is the one that's not asked!
> 
> Given the Niche is a single dose grinder with practically zero retention, I take it I can grind a variety of beans on the go at the same time. For example and El Salvador, an Ethiopian, and espresso blend without having to worry about cross contamination.
> 
> Would that be correct?


----------



## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

pj.walczak said:


> But you are aware how impractical those tubes are?
> 
> Rounded bottom, they can't stand, you need to buy something more to keep them stranding.
> 
> ...


If you're using them within a day or so I don't see an issue. Also they do a nice rack that matches so I'm pretty sure that most people would use a rack for these.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

pj.walczak said:


> Rounded - if you put them on the table they will probably start rolling. And they are from glass, so they will crash quite often.


They look like they'd stand very happily on their flat lids.


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

pj.walczak said:


> Coffee cannot be vented, who knows what will happen with the glass.


The push fit lids will pop off well before the glass cracks.


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> The push fit lids will pop off well before the glass cracks.


I doubt either will happen, it's just coffee, it doesn't really let off that much gas.

Or maybe tomorrow when I check my coffee drawer after being away for a week, I will find a bunch of exploded test tubes.


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

I think I've nailed my technique for the DTP and Niche now.. I've found no funnel is needed, just do everything Dave does in his old videos but because the cup doesn't fit the PF, just align the two rims, they're almost the same!

A few taps on the bottom of the grind cup once inverted, a few small shakes of the PF whilst cup is still in place to level, tap PF on the work surface vertically once or twice without cup, then tamp!

It couldn't be easier, and it has made my coffee corner so much tidier. The extractions have been picture perfect since nailing this. It's also made my dialling in faster due to consistent extractions.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

lake_m said:


> Snagged one of these - not 'beautiful' but good enough.
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wooden-Spice-Rack-With-10-Jars-Herb-Kitchen-Storage-Acacia-Wood-Jar-Stand-Bottle/183074717346?hash=item2aa01a7ea2:rk:1f:0


Would you know the dimensions of each one of the jars?


----------



## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

pj.walczak said:


> But you are aware how impractical those tubes are?
> 
> Rounded bottom, they can't stand, you need to buy something more to keep them stranding.
> 
> ...


For those exact reasons I use these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EZNT7VG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_IjdYBb4SPB4NW


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Would you know the dimensions of each one of the jars?


I can find out - I'm currently at work.

Stores 18g of dark roasted beans with space to spare. My guess is that it would store up to 20g maybe even 21g.

One thing we did was stick some 2" black 'blackboard' tape over the glass to protect from UV. This also alows you to write on 'Decaf' (or whatever) if that's your thing.

I'll get a photo.


----------



## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

I am leaning towards something like this, to reflect the wood elements of the Niche http://www.packmyproduct.com.au/75ml-tube-spice-jar-bottle-clear-glass-with-bamboo-cap.html

Expecting 75ml to hold around 21g, should give a little flexibility.

Where do you find the progress of one's Niche order, or where they are upto in their fulfilment list ?

Impatiently waiting as my new DE+ definitely is needing a grinder ..... not expecting before my November delivery date .... but .....


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Quick question for you niche users, are any of you using a 15g VST basket and what are your findings?

Reason for question is that I am currently using the Niche with a 15g VST and would like to know if my findings thus far are consistent with the majority, findings that will form a small part of my compare and contrast thread later on.

Thanks for your inputs


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

I use 15g VST both with Niche and Mythos.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Not sure if this should be on the Niche thread or Vesuvius but I'll post here.

Just dialled in the Niche for the 5 profiles I have set up. So easy with Niche with the virtually zero retention compared to the Compak E10.

P1 - 14s 2Bar, then declining from 10Bar to 4bar (lever type) setting 24 on Niche (My go to profile)

P2 - straight 9bar for 30s : setting 27 on Niche (+3)

P3 - 10s 2bar then 9bar for 30s : setting 23 on Niche (-1)

P4 - 30s 2bar, then declining same as P1 - setting 21 on Niche. (-3)

(P5 - I use as a backflush profile at a lower pressure)

All dialled in for a 1:2 ratio.

For my taste, I think I just preferred P1 followed by P4

The lever profiles had a steady consistent flow of just over 1g/sec

The 9bar both start slow, but speed up during the pull.

My go to profile is P1 but it's nice to know now if I change beans, once I've dialled my favourite profile, it's easy to adjust for any of the other profiles if I feel that the bean / roast would improve the flavour.


----------



## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> Quick question for you niche users, are any of you using a 15g VST basket and what are your findings?
> 
> Reason for question is that I am currently using the Niche with a 15g VST and would like to know if my findings thus far are consistent with the majority, findings that will form a small part of my compare and contrast thread later on.
> 
> Thanks for your inputs


 @coffeechap

Im using a 15g VST basket.

Bunabery Avon setting is 14, thats 40g out over 28 -30 sec

CC Mystery 8 was setting 16 same output


----------



## Rscut (Aug 13, 2016)

Not sure if this is a question about my machine or about the Niche! I'm using an Oscar 2 and some times coffee is produced towards the back end of the pre infusion stage, which would then lead me to either increase my dose of coffee or make the grind a bit fine. I find that when I do alter it and it stops it, it then seems to leak a bit of water into the shot, maybe this is a seal issue?


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Quick question for you niche users, are any of you using a 15g VST basket and what are your findings?
> 
> Reason for question is that I am currently using the Niche with a 15g VST and would like to know if my findings thus far are consistent with the majority, findings that will form a small part of my compare and contrast thread later on.
> 
> Thanks for your inputs


I've been using both 15g and 18g VST on last 3 days with my Niche. Have had a Fiorenzato F4 till now and the 15g basket was always tricky for me. Combine 15 and 18 was not possible (no sd with the F4). With the Niche is easy, just go 3 notches finer with the 15g. The coffee I'm drinking is a natural processed Sidamo.


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Took the grind a few notches too far and I got 17g->34g in 34s. I say it was too fine as it was a touch bitter for me! But no spritzing and lovely crema.
> 
> A step in the right direction!


A little bitterness doesn't necessary mean it was too fine, you could find that even finer or a longer shot gave you a little more sweetness back to balance it.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Those that are using a 15g VST are you using a naked portafilter


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Yes, I use NPF.

My routine is bit different then Dave's , I use funnel, transfer the coffee to NPF, then I use LDT.


----------



## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

0.3g retention just now which is almost double the higher end of the range I've seen to date and that was with a tap. I haven't had a look inside yet. Has anyone else had that much retained?


----------



## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Those that are using a 15g VST are you using a naked portafilter


I've used a naked PF with a 15g and the Niche


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

Yes, naked portafilter with the 15g VST


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dan1502 said:


> 0.3g retention just now which is almost double the higher end of the range I've seen to date and that was with a tap. I haven't had a look inside yet. Has anyone else had that much retained?


Could be your scales? To measure 0.1g retention you are better off using 0.01g scales (faster to dose too).

I just measured the empty cup 10 times and got readings from 114.6 to 114.8g with scales that read to (but are not accurate to) 0.1g.


----------



## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

After initially getting around 0.5g retention on my very first grind, since then I generally get less than 0.1g. I use scales which read to 0.01g.



MWJB said:


> Could be your scales? To measure 0.1g retention you are better off using 0.01g scales (faster to dose too).
> 
> I just measured the empty cup 10 times and got readings from 114.6 to 114.8g with scales that read to (but are not accurate to) 0.1g.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Does anyone notice a difference of +-0.1~0.3g?

Sure, if you had a 17.7g shot followed by 18.3g shot that would be more significant, but that never happened to me.


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Would you know the dimensions of each one of the jars?


Here you go @MediumRoastSteam


----------



## lynxv3 (Sep 28, 2018)

lake_m said:


> Here you go @MediumRoastSteam
> 
> View attachment 37014


That's a nice setup


----------



## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> Those that are using a 15g VST are you using a naked portafilter


 @coffeechap yes. With the Bunaberry lighter roast I was getting a patchy distribution underneath, thorough mixing in the cup has sorted that. It takes around 10 -15 secs to come together into a single stream.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

tocateclas said:


> Yes, naked portafilter with the 15g VST


Ditto.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Not bad


----------



## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I'm using 0.01g scales. I'll try testing them for consistency but though cheap, they seem ok. I'm grinding quite fine with the CHC LSOL beans.


----------



## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

@coffeechap m using a15 with quite a light roast has bean blend, getting those donut extractions described up thread. No problems with darker roasts that seen easier to get distributed in the basket.


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

This mornings shot. 18:36 in around 27 seconds using red brick.











need to go a touch finer I reckon oh and get some babybels for my son


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

tocateclas said:


> I've been using both 15g and 18g VST on last 3 days with my Niche. Have had a Fiorenzato F4 till now and the 15g basket was always tricky for me. Combine 15 and 18 was not possible (no sd with the F4). With the Niche is easy, just go 3 notches finer with the 15g. The coffee I'm drinking is a natural processed Sidamo.


So - 3 gram less coffee needed in the portafilter, setting on the Niche goes 3 points down... easy to remember


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

GingerBen said:


> This mornings shot. 18:36 in around 27 seconds using red brick.


Can I ask what your shot prep is Ben?


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

dan1502 said:


> 0.3g retention just now which is almost double the higher end of the range I've seen to date and that was with a tap. I haven't had a look inside yet. Has anyone else had that much retained?


Yeah, I've had that and more with some coffee's.


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Can I ask what your shot prep is Ben?


Sure, place pf on top of grinds cup and invert, give it a shake and tap on bench to flatten as best I can. Put dosing ring on top and use a cocktail stick to give it all a good mix and distribute it evenly across the PF. Use a leveler (knock off OCD) to give a nice surface to tamp. When tamping I place the tamper on the puck and use my thumbs on opposite sides to press down to make sure I keep it as level as I can. I find if I tamp 'normally' I get uneven pressure and a wonky surface.

sounds like a lot but in practice takes about 30 seconds.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GingerBen said:


> Sure, place pf on top of grinds cup and invert, give it a shake and tap on bench to flatten as best I can. Put dosing ring on top and use a cocktail stick to give it all a good mix and distribute it evenly across the PF. Use a leveler (knock off OCD) to give a nice surface to tamp. When tamping I place the tamper on the puck and use my thumbs on opposite sides to press down to make sure I keep it as level as I can. I find if I tamp 'normally' I get uneven pressure and a wonky surface.
> 
> sounds like a lot but in practice takes about 30 seconds.


Do you stir the grinds in the grind cup with a chopstick or similar?


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Do you stir the grinds in the grind cup with a chopstick or similar?


I haven't been no. Given I need to stir them in the PF I thought may as well just do it once.


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Yes, as long as you are not making big jumps in grind setting.


If it's the case, going to filter drip to espresso, should I have to do anything different?


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Do you stir the grinds in the grind cup with a chopstick or similar?


I just do this, no need this way to use a funnel to stir on the portafilter. The work flow is cleaner and easier than I'd expected.


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Do you just tap the pf then to get rid of the doughnut the grinds cup causes?


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

GingerBen said:


> Do you just tap the pf then to get rid of the doughnut the grinds cup causes?


Stir grinds in cup, invert, tap and shake, remove cup, tap a little the sides of the portafilter to even the coffee, then ocd and tamp with little pressure. As you say, it seems far more complicate than it really is. I will try without ocd, maybe it's an unnecessary step.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

GingerBen said:


> Sure, place pf on top of grinds cup and invert, give it a shake and tap on bench to flatten as best I can. Put dosing ring on top and use a cocktail stick to give it all a good mix and distribute it evenly across the PF. Use a leveler (knock off OCD) to give a nice surface to tamp. When tamping I place the tamper on the puck and use my thumbs on opposite sides to press down to make sure I keep it as level as I can. I find if I tamp 'normally' I get uneven pressure and a wonky surface.
> 
> sounds like a lot but in practice takes about 30 seconds.


Thanks Ben, it's pretty much exactly what I do but I don't have a dosing funnel as yet (it's on the way) so I overdose by .2g to compensate for any spillage & then re wiegh. I give a little stir with the chopstick in the cup as well though.

If I don't stir in the portafilter I get the donutting or at best 2 streams...

I'd like to be able to skip the stirring in pf stage (it's not really a big deal but I love a bit of efficiency!) & get a lovely mousetail like @tocateclas has in their video but just don't seem to have the skills right now


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Stevebee said:


> For me I use the following :
> 
> Espresso. 20
> 
> ...


Has anyone got an estimated grind setting for a cold brew dripper (Puck Puck), and I guess a range for aeropress as well...


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

pj.walczak said:


> But you are aware how impractical those tubes are?
> 
> Rounded bottom, they can't stand, you need to buy something more to keep them stranding.
> 
> ...


Mine are plastic, air tight and stored in a draw. They are also very easy to pour the beans into, no extra equipment required and if I wanted to they all stand freely too.


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## blow360 (Oct 20, 2018)

Hi guys, I just received my niche grinder and am blown by it as well. One question - what is the red button by the caliberate button for?


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

blow360 said:


> Hi guys, I just received my niche grinder and am blown by it as well. One question - what is the red button by the caliberate button for?


It's part of the safety mechanism. It's pressed when the lid is closed.


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## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

GingerBen said:


> I haven't been no. Given I need to stir them in the PF I thought may as well just do it once.


I find it easier and less 'messy' to stir in the grind cup. I experience more even extractions and better tasting espresso than stirring in the filter basket.

In basket I used a small metal stick (toothpick size at the end) and in grind cup I use the handle of a brush that was used to sweep the grind cup of my Kinu M68.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

richwade80 said:


> Has anyone got an estimated grind setting for a cold brew dripper (Puck Puck), and I guess a range for aeropress as well...


 @richwade80 I use the same setting as I'd use for pourover, so keep an eye on everyone's recommendations for kalita/v60 etc. At the moment I'm at around the left hinge (or perhaps towards 0) for pourover and Puck Puck, but this bean needs to be fairly course. I imagine if it was a bean needing a finer grind you'd be somewhere between 50 and the right hand hinge.

Haven't used my AP other than for Puck Puck, so not sure! Maybe around the 40 mark?


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## blow360 (Oct 20, 2018)

richwade80 said:


> It's part of the safety mechanism. It's pressed when the lid is closed.


oh Ic. Thanks!


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

martinierius said:


> I find it easier and less 'messy' to stir in the grind cup. I experience more even extractions and better tasting espresso than stirring in the filter basket.
> 
> In basket I used a small metal stick (toothpick size at the end) and in grind cup I use the handle of a brush that was used to sweep the grind cup of my Kinu M68.


I just don't get as even an extraction that way, stir in the cup & I get donutting, stir in pf I get a mousetail... It's not a problem, I just can't work out why... I'm using lighter roasts, are you the same? I wonder if that makes a difference?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Jon_Foster said:


> I just don't get as even an extraction that way, stir in the cup & I get donutting, stir in pf I get a mousetail... It's not a problem, I just can't work out why... I'm using lighter roasts, are you the same? I wonder if that makes a difference?


How are you distributing in the basket? You want to make sure the coffee is evenly distributed in the basket too. If you just stir in the cup and don't distribute, they won't be good. Basically not only you want to make sure you have all the grinds mixed, but also that the same density is all over the basket too.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

So I adjusted the grind setting from 13 to the calibration mark for the Puck Puck.

I ground 38g which basically fills the chamber. On grinding there was significant static towards the end, with bits flying all over.

Afterwards I adjusted the grinder back to 13 in stages, spinning the burrs as I went. I found that I could not tighten the grinder easily without force, so only tightened maybe five steps at a time.

I also loosened the grinder periodically before tightening again. You could definitely sense a sudden change in resistance. After I got below 20, it seemed to then free up.

Will see if there's any difference in espresso performance tomorrow.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Hey, thanks, yeah I'm distributing in the pf after stirring in the cup. Think I'll make a couple of little vids next week if I get a sec... I'm sure it's just a matter of practice after using a different grinder for years!


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How are you distributing in the basket? You want to make sure the coffee is evenly distributed in the basket too. If you just stir in the cup and don't distribute, they won't be good. Basically not only you want to make sure you have all the grinds mixed, but also that the same density is all over the basket too.


I'm taping the pf to even the grounds or, if there is too much in one side, just level with a finger and tap after that. Then three turns of OCD and tamp.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Got a video of a shot today with a stir in the cup but not in the pf besides levelling the top with a toothpick before using the ocd type thing. Was bad, thin, bitter and patchy and went in the sink. Proof (for me at least) that proper distribution in the pf seems to work best.

youtube not letting me upload but ill try tomorrow


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## Teaboy (Jul 24, 2018)

I have found a good and fun way to 'stir' the grounds - simply hold the niche beaker in the portafilter and shake it up and down side to side and back and forth, gently lift beaker and a fairly level deposit of grounds is found, quick tidy with finger, tamp and go!


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## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

Jon_Foster said:


> I just don't get as even an extraction that way, stir in the cup & I get donutting, stir in pf I get a mousetail... It's not a problem, I just can't work out why... I'm using lighter roasts, are you the same? I wonder if that makes a difference?


Do you use the sideways movement to distribute evenly? Dave's video shows is very good: have you seen it?


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I wonder if it would be possible for a Niche owner to tell what height the grind cup is if that possible.

Thanks in advance


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Paul K said:


> I wonder if it would be possible for a Niche owner to tell what height the grind cup is if that possible.
> 
> Thanks in advance


86mm (+-1mm)


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## Nishimiya (Oct 25, 2017)

Mine came in a couple of days ago. I had a Vario before it, and while I feel utterly unqualified in making quality comparisons (not that I'd expect anything earth-shatteringly better, short of a Monolith or K30 or something of the sort), there's a few little things for those of you on the fence (or those looking for comparisons).

a) it's a bit shorter, which is nice.

b) it's MUCH better built, with the caveat the wood parts do feel like they could do with a bit more spit and finish.

c) Adjustment is easy, but micro-adjustments do feel not quite granular enough for what i've seen of them this far: I'd love to see a Niche Zero-E, one that doesn't pretend to want to do everything for everyone, and with only espresso as a grinding range (don't know manufacturing tolerances would allow that with the current design, though).

d) grind speed is, give or take, similar to the Vario, but in the home, who really cares anyway if it takes 16 rather than 14 seconds to grind a portafilter worth of espresso, you'll be spending 100x that difference cleaning up after yourself no matter what.

e) noise-wise, it feels way less noisy, not only because I think it actually IS less noisy (I haven't measured), but also, and maybe more importantly, because the noise it makes is much less unpleasant (it's less shrill).

So, over the Vario ? definite keeper, because build quality and just a much nicer overall user experience (it just feels like a better made thing: no jumping, rattly plastic thingemabobs you need to shim, the noise, all of that).


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Did a bit of work on the Kruve looking at my 3 large conicals, the Niche (63mm), Compak E10 (68mm) and Pharos (68mm).

Wanted to see what the spread for a similar grind size was. Sieved 30g of the same bean through the sieves in the order of 400+1400, 500+1200, 600+1100, 700+1000 then 800+900. Each shaken for 1 minute. I didn't include the Mazzer Royal 83mm as I just wanted conicals in the list.

There is always on any conical I've looked at with the Kruve a fair spread of sizes. I used 50 on the Niche (my espresso is 20), 90 on the Compak (My espresso is 50) . The average grinds are 725,726 and 736 so pretty close.

The spread on the Niche is certainly no worse than the other two. The cumulative graph shows it is possibly better but theres not much in it. The red numbers are a rough Standard Deviation. considering the burrs are still being seasoned I'm very happy for the Niche to take its place in the kitchen.









I know the graphs are small - hopefully they can be zoomed in on.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stevebee said:


> Did a bit of work on the Kruve looking at my 3 large conicals, the Niche (63mm), Compak E10 (68mm) and Pharos (68mm).
> 
> Wanted to see what the spread for a similar grind size was. Sieved 30g of the same bean through the sieves in the order of 400+1400, 500+1200, 600+1100, 700+1000 then 800+900. Each shaken for 1 minute. I didn't include the Mazzer Royal 83mm as I just wanted conicals in the list.
> 
> ...


Your charts seem to show the average grind size as being lower than 725-736? 600 to 650?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Your charts seem to show the average grind size as being lower than 725-736? 600 to 650?


It does look like that but I've taken the percentage of grinds in each range, times the mid point to get the average.

Taking where the 50% is in the range and pro rating the averages are Niche 672, Compak 692 and Pharos 697

I think the way I did it probably give the coarser grinds too much weight


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stevebee said:


> It does look like that but I've taken the percentage of grinds in each range, times the mid point to get the average.
> 
> Taking where the 50% is in the range and pro rating the averages are Niche 672, Compak 692 and Pharos 697
> 
> I think the way I did it probably give the coarser grinds too much weight


The 50% point is your datum, if going by the average size. Trouble is working out the mid points (probably not linear), as in your example the smaller particles have a larger stdev factor (300um from 300 to 600) than the bigger particles(400um from 400 to 1000 - might be normal & an artefact of sifting with the Kruve, I have seen the Kruve over estimate average size when using just 2 sieves).


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

MWJB said:


> The 50% point is your datum, if going by the average size. Trouble is working out the mid points (probably not linear), as in your example the smaller particles have a larger stdev factor (300um from 300 to 600) than the bigger particles(400um from 400 to 1000 - might be normal & an artefact of sifting with the Kruve, I have seen the Kruve over estimate average size when using just 2 sieves).


Don't disagree but without access to Laser Particle Analysis, Kruve is the best I've got. I used the same process for all samples so whatever error the Kruve gives would be the same for all. When I did the same for the Niche on 45 (not shown), it gave the same profile just lower overall so I believe it is repeatable and representative.

My biggest issue with the Niche is nothing to do with grind quality at all. Set to 50, which is the highest number shown and way past the Filter/Drip marking, the average grind size is c 672. If I wanted to grind for drip or Kalita or even French press, I'm way past any of the numbers and talking hinge, or 3rd screw on the left as indicators. At a push, drip is sometimes shown as 600-700 so I'm not sure how they decided to mark the dial and not sure why the numbers don't go all the way round like a lot of other grinders. Still, grind quality is the main thing, and on that front and like Dave C, I am going to move my commercial sized conical to the spare room!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stevebee said:


> Don't disagree but without access to Laser Particle Analysis, Kruve is the best I've got. I used the same process for all samples so whatever error the Kruve gives would be the same for all. When I did the same for the Niche on 45 (not shown), it gave the same profile just lower overall so I believe it is repeatable and representative.
> 
> My biggest issue with the Niche is nothing to do with grind quality at all. Set to 50, which is the highest number shown and way past the Filter/Drip marking, the average grind size is c 672. If I wanted to grind for drip or Kalita or even French press, I'm way past any of the numbers and talking hinge, or 3rd screw on the left as indicators. At a push, drip is sometimes shown as 600-700 so I'm not sure how they decided to mark the dial and not sure why the numbers don't go all the way round like a lot of other grinders. Still, grind quality is the main thing, and on that front and like Dave C, I am going to move my commercial sized conical to the spare room!


Sure Kruve is repeatable, but the average um will be in 'Kruves' not um. Drip is anything from 480um (Euro fine) to 840um (US manual drip) with ASTM sieves.

Agreed about the facia scale, I'm currently at 'the left join at the lid & hinge' , maybe equates to "75", for my current drip grind (13% at 400 Kruve +/-2%, or 700-800um with a mesh sieve.) "50" is way too fine for my 3 mug brews. A little disappointed they didn't put graduations around the full 360deg, but it works nicely despite that.

I think just using 400, 600, 1000 & 1600 sieves would give enough info to determine +/- 1stdev for all but very coarse grinds/wide distributions.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

MWJB said:


> I'm currently at 'the left join at the lid & hinge' , maybe equates to "75", for my current drip grind
> 
> .


I'm in a similar place for drip as well - good old left hinge!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zwanger said:


> Espresso grind size is between 200-600 um. Bimodal/trimodal/multimodal.
> 
> Unimodal is between 100 and 300 um. Fines are under 100um.
> 
> Sometimes is not ok with the meassurements of the kruves. Did you grind for espresso or?.


Rubbish. You're just making some of this up.

Bimodal refers to the secondary peak around 40-60um that occurs when you grind finer end of drip & finer. It cannot be detected by sifting, only by LPA. As you go finer it gets bigger, not smaller. Unimodal is coarser than espresso, not finer.

600um is marginally coarser than ECBC drip (1L brew at 60g/L). Good luck extracting a typical shot of espresso that coarse.

There is no universally accepted definition of fines, if they're under 100um then they don't affect manual brews at all, because they can't contribute enough of anything to affect the whole of the brew. Any small particles that can get through a filter into the cup can adversely affect a drink, these could be up to 400um at least in brewed immersions. If they're unwanted fine particles, you can call them fines if you want.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Zwanger said:


> Espresso grind size is between 200-600 um. Bimodal/trimodal/multimodal.
> 
> Unimodal is between 100 and 300 um. Fines are under 100um.
> 
> ...


I ground for Aeropress-ish. Using the Kruve for espresso grind, especially as I use a long pre-infusion so therefore grind quite fine, can be a real pain as it can clump and give some funny numbers. Plus I don't really use the Kruve to dial iin espresso - just Aeropress and beyond.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm sorry to change tack from the above and if it is somewhere on this thread I'm even sorrier, but is anyone using the Niche with the L1 (as I'm about to)?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Espresso grinds can be over 1000um at the largest. When we talk about a grind being so many um we usually mean the average grind size, the outliers at the larger end will be in excess of twice the average and also less than half the average, at the lower end, all the way down to single digit micron sizes.

There is no data between 0-150um in these sieve charts, the odds of the Ditting grind being unimodal, when viewed as an LPA plot, are very low. You are mixing up terminologies across differing conventions of measuring.

Look at this LPA plot, you'll see 2 plots, both between 100 & 300um average size, both are clearly bimodal.

http://www.baratza.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/PRECISO-Graph.pdf


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zwanger said:


> Thank you for your opinion.
> 
> For me unimodal grinder means the most of the grind size are cluttered into a small range eg 100-300um, most meaning 80%. If there are 2-4% of fines, i dont care about those.


I didn't state any opinion.

You can make up whatever definition you like for what *you think* a thing is. That's great, it just makes discussion with the rest of the world impossible.

A grind with 80% between 100 & 300um would be a very fine grind, it would be bimodal. It might look as if it is unimodal in a sieve plot, simply because only a few sieves are employed. You could make the HG-1 plot look the same shape by selecting the same number of sieves at appropriate intervals.

Your personal definition of bimodal/unimodal is pretty much the opposite of standard practice & based upon a misunderstanding of the data presented to you.


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

Zwanger said:


> Can you please show me a unimodal data plot? And im pretty sure you did notice, i am talking about espresso only. As i see you are only into brewing. I want to understand more about this, to get it right then.


Your viewpoint appears to be unimodal.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am just glad, that this is all above my head and cannot follow any of it......would a mod agree to cut the last posts that are irrelevant to the Niche, but none the less interesting to those who follow, into a separate thread


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

I second this. At the very least if a couple of people want to continue a long and esoteric discussion about particle sizes might I politely suggest one of them starts a separate thread for that purpose?

I love the machine more every day. Just switched beans and it was dialed in in seconds...

R



dfk41 said:


> I am just glad, that this is all above my head and cannot follow any of it......would a mod agree to cut the last posts that are irrelevant to the Niche, but none the less interesting to those who follow, into a separate thread


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## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

Anyhoo.

I've just started to play with my Niche.

To get output weight == input weight, I've found that post grind, the grinder needs a fews taps and a bit of rocking backwards and forwards (with perhaps some side-to-side too).

But having done that, 18.0g in, 18.0g out.

Compared to dicking about with a pastry brush and a lens hood mod to remove retained grinds (though they are clever workarounds), the Niche is waaaaay less faff.

Niche does what it says on the tin, kudos Martin.

M


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## marknewham (Oct 9, 2018)

I cannot wait for mine to arrive!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Yeah, I'm totally going to end up getting one. And it's totally going to end up being the toilet lookalike.

[Considering the data-driven palaver above, is my input uncultured enough to drag this thread back on track??]


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## terio (Oct 17, 2017)

Hi, I've read all the Niche posts with a lot of interest and seen a lot on how impressed everyone is with the Niche, both the grind, the lack of retention and general build quality.

I currently have a Eureka 65mm with a doser and accept the faff that brings. Would the step upto a Niche in purely grind quality terms justify the expense of purchasing? I appreciate it would be a lot quicker and easier than my current set up, but would I be able to get a significantly better coffee than my current grinder. It will be used for espresso with a Brasilia single group heat exchanger machine.

Any help greatly appreciated

Patrick


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

If there is an owner within a reasonable distance from you see if you can visit and take your own grinder along both for taste and workflow. Taste aside, you will see in recent pages I have been switching back and forth between a few different coffees, each at a different setting and each time it's 11.4g in and circa 11.4g out. No purging, no waste, no sink-shots once you know the initial setting for a bean as it's not slewed by residual coffee from the previous bean.


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Ops. Wrong thread. Delete it please.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

martinierius said:


> Do you use the sideways movement to distribute evenly? Dave's video shows is very good: have you seen it?


Hey! Yeah, I saw it a while ago, think I'll check it out again though, thanks for the reminder!


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

WOW.... turned on, tuned in and dropped out (although the Drop is still in the freezer waiting for that special moment). Holy particles, VST man.

Used a mighty fine Rwandan natural from Crankhouse (also out of the freezer) and based on what I have read on this thread so far, set the dial to a shade under 20 and pretty much right there, straight away. I don't know if this is typical on the first few grinds but I needed to up the amount to about 18g in (to get 17g out) but by the third lot of beans through, the retention had sorted itself out. The L1 loved it, I love it and my wife even more (in a flat white...and, it may totally be my imagination, but the texture of the coffee seemed different when I did my free style latte art). So, share the Niche love.

Will I ever use my HG-1 again?


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Stirring in the Niche cup is working quite well for me and makes for a very convenient workflow. Not quite as good as if I stir in the pf for some reason, but I think the difference is technique. Or that I need a very even depth across the pf before I spin the knockoff ocd spinny tool, which would rather negate the point of the spinny tool. No spurts now but some inconsistency across the basket on a naked pour.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LukeT said:


> Or that I need a very even depth across the pf before I spin the knockoff ocd spinny tool, which would rather negate the point of the spinny tool....


The tool is just to give you a flat surface, so yes, you need to get that relatively even depth before using it.


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## oscar-b (Apr 27, 2018)

I added a small mark on the adjustment collar, offset -50 points from the white dot. This increases the measurable range from 0-50 to 0-100, which is needed for pour over. Now, instead of trying to set it to "right at the left hinge" I can set it properly to 72 for instance (my dot is then at 22). I think this is the easiest way to increase the range and make it possible to properly dial back to a coarse setting.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

oscar-b said:


> I added a small mark on the adjustment collar, offset -50 points from the white dot. This increases the measurable range from 0-50 to 0-100, which is needed for pour over. Now, instead of trying to set it to "right at the left hinge" I can set it properly to 72 for instance (my dot is then at 22). I think this is the easiest way to increase the range and make it possible to properly dial back to a coarse setting.
> 
> View attachment 37139


Great idea. Ahould be at 51 though, otherwiae you'll only be able to go up to 99.


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## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

oscar-b said:


> I added a small mark on the adjustment collar, offset -50 points from the white dot. This increases the measurable range from 0-50 to 0-100, which is needed for pour over. Now, instead of trying to set it to "right at the left hinge" I can set it properly to 72 for instance (my dot is then at 22). I think this is the easiest way to increase the range and make it possible to properly dial back to a coarse setting.
> 
> View attachment 37139


I have a similar solution, but I decided to place it opposite of the white dot, so half a rotation away. This way the dot is for the "espresso grind" and the other marker is for the "filter grind", both using the same 0-50 range at roughly the same settings, just that the filter one 180 degrees further.

But I think your solution might be even better.


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## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

Suspect someone will tell me this is a bad thing to do... but I'm struggling to match the retention figures people are quoting (I tend to get between 0.3 - 0.5g), but I found that if I 'slide' the grinder forward across the worktop, the rubber feet cause it to judder, which in turn causes most of the missing grounds to drop out. Takes me down to about 0.1 - 0.2g retention. I tried tapping the chute with the brush handle as people suggested, but it didn't do anything for me.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Phill82 said:


> Suspect someone will tell me this is a bad thing to do... but I'm struggling to match the retention figures people are quoting (I tend to get between 0.3 - 0.5g), but I found that if I 'slide' the grinder forward across the worktop, the rubber feet cause it to judder, which in turn causes most of the missing grounds to drop out. Takes me down to about 0.1 - 0.2g retention. I tried tapping the chute with the brush handle as people suggested, but it didn't do anything for me.


Don't tap slide judder or bump, everything you do just defeats the system designed to keep exchange, retention and dose variance at a minimum. If you just use it as intended you should get at least the figures for these things that I got in my review. Currently my average dose variance from what goes in to what comes out is about 0.05g.

There are 3 things that can affect this variance and* then usually just for 1 shot* (unless grinder opened, burrs removed and cleaned, plus chamber/sweep arms cleaned, then you might age higher variance for 2-3 shots.

1. Big Change in grind size larger than 10 marks ( 15 marks might make a 0.1g difference, move to coarse for press-pot might make 0.2-0.3g difference)

2. Changing coffee can make up to a 0.1-0.2g variance, but not usually that much, obviously this is accompanied by a small tweak in grind if doing espresso

3. Very dark oily coffees may show slightly higher variance figures e.g. up to 0.2g

In normal use this grinder does not give dose variances anywhere near the ones I put down for the review, for that I chose the upper figure you were likely to see to be on the safe side..

Why don't you tell us more about how you are using it, how dark and oily the coffee is and isn't and are you changing coffee, grind size or moving from espresso to filter etc.. every shot you do? It might help shed some light on the problem....but what ever you do stop bumping it around. Also make certain coffee has stopped falling from the chute before you stop the grinder, don't stop it when you hear no more beans going through!


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I have been getting a fair degree of variance without doing anything (no change to grind or bean) and with light roast beans (LSOL) but I want to check whether it's the scales. They display 0.01g but are cheap and I've had them a while. My plan is to check they go back to zero once the cup has been emptied each time. I'll report back.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dan1502 said:


> I have been getting a fair degree of variance without doing anything (no change to grind or bean) and with light roast beans (LSOL) but I want to check whether it's the scales. They display 0.01g but are cheap and I've had them a while. My plan is to check they go back to zero once the cup has been emptied each time. I'll report back.


Also try taking the cup off and then reweighing to see if you get the same weight e.g. if cup has 18g of coffee in weigh it, not reading, remove cup, then re weigh it....see if the reading stays the same. This way you are not introducing an extra variable...also test the way you suggested. The other thing is to check the tare function of the scales. Weigh something after taring out the scales. Tare the scales again and reweigh the same thing, are the weights the same.

Also double check results with a second set of scales...that's why I bought 2 sets and I actually have 3rd set..


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I have tried the re-weighing thing and will try your other suggestions. The only other sets of scales I have go to 0.1g.


----------



## LM17 (Dec 21, 2015)

Love my Niche!

Have been using it for espresso so far with very good results, but I'm wondering if anyone have used the Niche for different type of pour overs? If yes, what are your approximately settings? Ex. V60, Kalita Wave, Aeropress and French Press (James Hoffmann method).


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

LM17 said:


> Love my Niche!
> 
> Have been using it for espresso so far with very good results, but I'm wondering if anyone have used the Niche for different type of pour overs? If yes, what are your approximately settings? Ex. V60, Kalita Wave, Aeropress and French Press (James Hoffmann method).


Discussed earlier in this thread I think.


----------



## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> hat's why I bought 2 sets and I actually have 3rd set..


An aside: Which scales do you use / recommend, Dave?

I find the Coffee Gator ones I have slightly annoying; the display's backlight switches itself off too quickly, and it doesn't auto start/stop. Or am I asking too much?!

Thanks,

M


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

moots said:


> An aside: Which scales do you use / recommend, Dave?
> 
> I find the Coffee Gator ones I have slightly annoying; the display's backlight switches itself off too quickly, and it doesn't auto start/stop. Or am I asking too much?!
> 
> ...


I'm a cheap arse, so if the scales have coffee anything in the name, I quickly move on. I think I tend to pay around £8-9 for scales. The ones below were £9.00

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B018GQS4YI/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think much less than that and they might not be so accurate.


----------



## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

Great, I'll check those out. Thanks Dave.


----------



## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Zwanger said:


> For those who want to grind directly into portafilter without holding it by hand.
> 
> Naked pf+ big funnel. Set it on the wood part and there you go.
> 
> View attachment 37143


Is that a hub cap?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

LukeT said:


> Is that a hub cap?


Jam funnel


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

moots said:


> Great, I'll check those out. Thanks Dave.


If you want to be posh, Acaia are good Fellows, and sightglass, Four Barrels have Lunar or Pearl scales.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Horsham stock Acaia scales


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## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks for the recommendations MildredM & Jony.


----------



## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Jam funnel


Great name for a band?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

moots said:


> Great name for a band?


I don't think it will work...take the Jam Jars Folk Band for example.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Amazon also stock Acaia Scales but from a 3rd party, 'Hippity' or something, that I noticed also sell them on eBay...


----------



## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> ...Why don't you tell us more about how you are using it, how dark and oily the coffee is and isn't and are you changing coffee, grind size or moving from espresso to filter etc.. every shot you do? It might help shed some light on the problem....but what ever you do stop bumping it around. Also make certain coffee has stopped falling from the chute before you stop the grinder, don't stop it when you hear no more beans going through!


Fair enough, I am constantly changing grind setting between espresso, pour over, moka etc and also different beans, so that may explain it. Thank you for your explanations, I will see what happens when I get to the point of keeping things more regular!

Phill


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Amazon also stock Acaia Scales but from a 3rd party, 'Hippity' or something, that I noticed also sell them on eBay...


I was a little shocked at the price of the Acacia scales....they seem very expensive, especially when you can get Lab quality precision Kern scales for £159 that are accurate to 0.01g. I use a Kern in my workshop for weighing green and roasted coffee (higher capacity retail scale)

https://www.inscale-scales.co.uk/kern-pcb-economic-precision-balance

I sometimes think coffee enthusiasts are taken advantage of. My other set of £5 scales were very accurate (unbelievable considering they were £5 delivered). I had that confirmed when I was selling some gold, I weighed it and the weight I had pretty much exactly matched the Jewellers weights (much to my surprise). Not that huge amounts of accuracy are required for coffee, because our ability to taste doesn't even match the accuracy of even the cheaper end of the scale. I assumed the Acacia things were around £35.99 or something...very shocked when I saw the price. So really for £8 I'm quite happy with how the cheap scales perform.


----------



## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

I also think Acaia are stupidly expensive and even more so in some parts of Europe, but the logging of extraction data and BT connectivity are nice to have.

There's definitely a place in the market for a sub 100 pound/euro scale with the same functionality.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I think it is because they don't die with prolonged use on the drip tray. My Brewista scales gave up as soon as I started using them on the drip tray despite using electrical tape on the battery compartment. Before that 1 year with no issue but nowhere near water. I personally don't use the Acaia app for brewed etc.. but I've probably used the Acaia for over 2,000 Espresso shots on the drip tray, spills and all, and they are still going strong. Agree that the price is crazy though!


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I've got a £10 set of scales that go to 0.1g and they have been going for about 2 years. Have got them all sorts of wet and generally treated them like crap and they still work perfectly apart from the backlight on the display being a bit dull. Every time I look at expensive scales I just can't imagine dropping more than £30-40 on them let alone £250+


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

mctrials23 said:


> I've got a £10 set of scales that go to 0.1g and they have been going for about 2 years. Have got them all sorts of wet and generally treated them like crap and they still work perfectly apart from the backlight on the display being a bit dull. Every time I look at expensive scales I just can't imagine dropping more than £30-40 on them let alone £250+


I agree and I do use a £15 0.1 Scales to weigh the input and they are over a year old and no issues at all.

However, with 300-400 shots a weekend (Farmers markets) the scales have to be robust. Plus I do like the mode where the timer starts once it detects the first drips of espresso hitting the cup as I do use a long pre-infusion so it is useful. Was hoping the Voom scale might offer some competition but ...


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stevebee said:


> I agree and I do use a £15 0.1 Scales to weigh the input and they are over a year old and no issues at all.
> 
> However, with 300-400 shots a weekend (Farmers markets) the scales have to be robust. Plus I do like the mode where the timer starts once it detects the first drips of espresso hitting the cup as I do use a long pre-infusion so it is useful. Was hoping the Voom scale might offer some competition but ...


For an awful lot of people on the forum feedback has consistently shown that they make less than 10-20 coffees per week. The number of for sale threads I see where expensive machines/grinders have been used for less than 10 coffees per week for the last few years is surprising. So I think a set of scales for most people does not need to be that robust. Of course if you're using them at markets or commercially fair enough. Even then high prices don't = good, I think one or two makes of expensive were spectacularly poor.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> So I think a set of scales for most people does not need to be that robust.


True. I was quite happy using a £15 set from Amazon before. Then I splashed out over £40 on the original Brewistas. Poor choice of words as that was their downfall !


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I just use these.. I've had them for years and they cost about a fiver off Amazon.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Brewista are possibly the worst scales I've ever owned.

They didn't even have a gasket covering the battery compartment so I knew they wouldn't be even splashproof. The first time my daughter rinsed them under the tap ( which you are supposed to be able to do ) they died. Shockingly poor quality for something so expensive.

Luckily I bought them second hand for a reasonable price. They retail at nearly £100 now.


----------



## steveholt (Jan 6, 2016)

My brewista gen 1 has a gasket and came with a spare.

2.5 years into it now.


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

cold war kid said:


> Brewista are possibly the worst scales I've ever owned.
> 
> They didn't even have a gasket covering the battery compartment so I knew they wouldn't be even splashproof. The first time my daughter rinsed them under the tap ( which you are supposed to be able to do ) they died. Shockingly poor quality for something so expensive.
> 
> Luckily I bought them second hand for a reasonable price. They retail at nearly £100 now.


My gen 1 brewistas are still going strong. The top layer of the scale is peeling away from the bottom part but it doesn't affect functionality and could be glued back down if I cared to. The gasket for the battery compartment was probably lost by the person you bought them from.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Rhys said:


> I just use these.. I've had them for years and they cost about a fiver off Amazon.


I've got a set that look exactly the same but are 200g x 0.01g. That's fine as you can put stuff heavier then Tare and it weighs up to 200g from then


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

steveholt said:


> My brewista gen 1 has a gasket and came with a spare.
> 
> 2.5 years into it now.


mine lasted over a year and had a gasket. It was me being clumsy and drowning them with 93c hot water that was the final straw. Note to self - make sure the portafilter is in before you start the shot!


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## jymbob (Aug 24, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I sometimes think coffee enthusiasts are taken advantage of.


Given that I've seen the same scales which are £8 jewellers scales on Amazon for sale in coffee shops for over £25 with nothing but a screen print to distinguish them, I KNOW coffee enthusiasts are taken advantage of!


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

Here is the very basic scale I use, good thing is that it comes with a base cover I use that keeps the bottom from getting wet and a calibration weight. Three years old, still kicking.

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-Back-Lit-Features-Included/dp/B00ME8VI34/


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

and £92 on Amazon UK...

Parity on $:£ pricing here on Treasure Island (as it is treated by sellers) is a given but holy cow...


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## jymbob (Aug 24, 2017)

Or, you know, £8 with Prime for a near identical set

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSC-High-precision-Jewellery-Multifunctional-Stainless/dp/B0738WC6KN/


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

This is the Niche grinder thread! not Coffee scales thread.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Jony said:


> This is the Niche grinder thread! not Coffee scales thread.


Yeah! Get with the programme guys


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Phill82 said:


> Suspect someone will tell me this is a bad thing to do... but I'm struggling to match the retention figures people are quoting (I tend to get between 0.3 - 0.5g), but I found that if I 'slide' the grinder forward across the worktop, the rubber feet cause it to judder, which in turn causes most of the missing grounds to drop out. Takes me down to about 0.1 - 0.2g retention. I tried tapping the chute with the brush handle as people suggested, but it didn't do anything for me.


Hi Phil,

I to was experiencing this. What I've now realised is that if you tap or use any other method to help remove the stuck grinds, you have to do it every time. If you just let the coffee come out without tapping after a couple of shots things settle down. I don't know whether it's the last of the coffee from the previous shot, or if it could be that the first few shots fill the voids and then the coffee from the subsequent shots flow straight through. I'm happy enough now to just enjoy it however it comes.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

jymbob said:


> Or, you know, £8 with Prime for a near identical set
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSC-High-precision-Jewellery-Multifunctional-Stainless/dp/B0738WC6KN/


Not sure these are all equal, mind. I had a set with the round buttons which had a wide open casing beneath the weighing platform and died in 2 months I assume through water ingress. My second set (rectangular buttons) is much more enclosed and still working OK after 12m and some abuse by my 5 year old. Not that either is meant to be water resistant but then nor are any of the cheap options so far as I could tell.


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## d.lopezalonso (Oct 24, 2018)

This is the Niche grinder thread! not Coffee scales thread.

Enviado desde mi LG-H930 mediante Tapatalk


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

It's 67 pages in. Are you seriously expecting there not to be any slight thread drifts in all those pages of discussion?


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

And why on earth would you join purely to tell people that they aren't talking about the things you'd like them to?

Welcome to the forum. Please correct me if I'm not allowed to welcome you, as I know it is curtesy related and not grinder related.


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## d.lopezalonso (Oct 24, 2018)

I'm sorry, I did not want to offend. Only, like previous colleagues in the forum, I wanted to insist that we will not talk about different topics.

Enviado desde mi LG-H930 mediante Tapatalk


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

It's is quite difficult to use the Niche effectively without scales, isn't it?


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## d.lopezalonso (Oct 24, 2018)

Of course, I'm sorry again !

Enviado desde mi LG-H930 mediante Tapatalk


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Omg! Just when i was ready to take the plunge, the black is out of stock!


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

No more than any other grinder, I would suggest. Without scales we have to be able to consistently use the right amount of beans for a basket and it can be done but scales make it a lot easier. Life's too short though for a few quid and a whole heap of convenience.


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

PaulL said:


> No more than any other grinder, I would suggest. Without scales we have to be able to consistently use the right amount of beans for a basket and it can be done but scales make it a lot easier. Life's too short though for a few quid and a whole heap of convenience.


If funds are tight, another option is to get hold of a house mouse. They weigh an average of 19g. By fashioning a tiny see-saw out of used lolly-sticks, it would be perfect for weighing out the beans for a morning latte. If you prefer a single shot, might I suggest the little Indian field mouse. He's 14g including whiskers, but may be more difficult to get hold of.


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## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

_HH_ said:


> If funds are tight, another option is to get hold of a house mouse.


Training it to keep still could be a challenge, particularly when the cat's around.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

_HH_ said:


> If funds are tight, another option is to get hold of a house mouse. They weigh an average of 19g. By fashioning a tiny see-saw out of used lolly-sticks, it would be perfect for weighing out the beans for a morning latte. If you prefer a single shot, might I suggest the little Indian field mouse. He's 14g including whiskers, but may be more difficult to get hold of.


Fill basket with beans & tip into grinder accepting the fact no 2 'spros will taste the same. Without scales, you'll also be forced to rely on volume for the output.


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## AAD44H (Apr 17, 2018)

Hopefully they will get some more black grinders in stock, don't like the white!


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

AAD44H said:


> Hopefully they will get some more black grinders in stock, don't like the white!


I emailed them this morning about when they would be back in stock. And hey presto i got a pleasant response saying they had been made available. Ordered mine today. Check again. I got the first of 5.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

cold war kid said:


> Brewista are possibly the worst scales I've ever owned.
> 
> They didn't even have a gasket covering the battery compartment so I knew they wouldn't be even splashproof. The first time my daughter rinsed them under the tap ( which you are supposed to be able to do ) they died. Shockingly poor quality for something so expensive.
> 
> Luckily I bought them second hand for a reasonable price. They retail at nearly £100 now.


I have the brewista 2 scale and it's been superb, had it for months and still haven't charged it once yet. It's splash proof and has a ton of different settings. Great scale imo.


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## ohms (Jan 22, 2018)

dev said:


> I also think Acaia are stupidly expensive and even more so in some parts of Europe, but the logging of extraction data and BT connectivity are nice to have.
> 
> There's definitely a place in the market for a sub 100 pound/euro scale with the same functionality.


Brewberry scales. I bought mine a week or so ago - about £10. Pretty much does everything the Acaia does (both timer and weight on the screen, auto tare, it can auto start the timer when it detects the first drip, etc). I've been super happy with mine so far!


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Where did you find them in Europe?


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Seem to be out of stock everywhere I've looked.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

4 weeks in, yet to have a really bad shot since having the niche. Huge reduction in poorly extracted / spurty / gushing naked PF shots. Very very happy so far.


----------



## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

have you noticed an improvement in the taste?


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## ohms (Jan 22, 2018)

dev said:


> Where did you find them in Europe?


Amazon UK. Seems to be OOS now, though. Maybe try one of the other Euro Amazon stores..?


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Does anyone know if the grind cups are back in stock or still in transit?


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

ohms said:


> Brewberry scales. I bought mine a week or so ago - about £10. Pretty much does everything the Acaia does (both timer and weight on the screen, auto tare, it can auto start the timer when it detects the first drip, etc). I've been super happy with mine so far!


I bought two sets of these; one for home and one for work. I sent both back as I found them useless for espresso due to what is probably a software issue. If they solve the problem I would buy them again but I found that the timer start wasn't sensitive enough and if the extraction started slowly then several grams could hit the cup before they started timing.


----------



## Oblivion (Mar 5, 2018)

Paul K said:


> Does anyone know if the grind cups are back in stock or still in transit?


Niche will send notification when cups are in and orders are being dispatched again.


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

It would have been good if Niche had also given an indication of how long the delay in the Grind Cups might be.

I have been following a few of these start-up projects and none do it better in the communication department than John at Decent Espresso. the news isn't always good, but you know the implications......this was during the build and now post delivery.

So looking forward to a black Niche sitting next to my black DE







........ dam'n those grind cups







.


----------



## ohms (Jan 22, 2018)

dan1502 said:


> I bought two sets of these; one for home and one for work. I sent both back as I found them useless for espresso due to what is probably a software issue. If they solve the problem I would buy them again but I found that the timer start wasn't sensitive enough and if the extraction started slowly then several grams could hit the cup before they started timing.


I haven't tried that mode yet - I prefer to know my total shot time when pulling espresso, rather than when the first drop hits the cup, by which time my machine is already at 9/10bar. So auto tare and manual timer mode works perfectly (mode E2)

I'll try it and see if I have a different experience from what you had, though.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Once the dust settled down... is anyone not happy with their Niche?

I've been really digging it. Yes, it produces a different cup (I haven't done a side by side) and that's probably why I was blown away for first couple of days. Still happy with the workflow, retention and what's in the cup.

The only things I wasn't sure were the looks and the switch. It looks good in person and I realised how easy it is to find the switch by just swiping the right side.

Now just need to finalise the bean storage solution and upgrade the machine...


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

PPapa said:


> Once the dust settled down... is anyone not happy with their Niche?
> 
> I've been really digging it. Yes, it produces a different cup (I haven't done a side by side) and that's probably why I was blown away for first couple of days. Still happy with the workflow, retention and what's in the cup.
> 
> ...


Cant really fault it so far. Super easy to work with and I very much understand them not wanting to send these out without the grind cup.

Weigh beans into cup -> pour into grinder -> grind cup goes underneath -> flick switch -> get portafilter and collar ready -> tip grind cup into pf and shake side to side to level beans -> remove collar and tap to settle grinds -> tamp and go.

Love that I don't have a load of stale grinds in the bottom of the grinder

Love that I don't have to have lots of beans in a hopper

Love the quality of grind

Love the looks and simplicity of it all

Only issue is that I am looking at different machines that I 100% don't need. The londinium R is calling to me.


----------



## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

How are people finding the taste in general? I'm finding it fuller bodied compared to my Mazzer Super Jolly.


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

ATZ said:


> How are people finding the taste in general? I'm finding it fuller bodied compared to my Mazzer Super Jolly.


Hard to say much about the quality as I am coming from a Sage SGP which is an alright grinder but not in the same league as this. Have to say its a country mile better than the SGP though.


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Pulled a shot of a new coffee this morning, way too slow, a slight adjustment on the collar, next shot bang on, what's not to love???

So easy to adjust, no purging, consistent results, need I say anymore, maybe that it allows for some great tasting shots, I'm 100% satisfied, glad I bought one for sure.


----------



## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

Yeap, happy here too.

Just wondering if anyone is getting popcorning fragments jump out of the funnel and through the small gap between the lid and funnel? I'm getting shards of coffee on the table around the grinder and just noticed it happen this morning.

No biggie. It's still much cleaner than my HG-1 that had an open top.


----------



## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

PPapa said:


> Now just need to finalise the bean storage solution and upgrade the machine...


I know there's a lot of stuff above about bean cellars and what not. But I've settled on these tinted ointment jars which you can order through the pharmacy. I think it's like a pack of 10 for 10 bucks (AUD). And they all have the same net weight. So no need to tare it each time you swap out for the next jar. Holds up to 22g-ish.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

suvartet said:


> Yeap, happy here too.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone is getting popcorning fragments jump out of the funnel and through the small gap between the lid and funnel? I'm getting shards of coffee on the table around the grinder and just noticed it happen this morning.
> 
> No biggie. It's still much cleaner than my HG-1 that had an open top.


Yes, I get the fragments. The lid obviously sits a bit high to allow the collar to adjust upwards as it's unscrewed. This leaves a gap for some bits to fly through and then they fall out when you open the lid.

It is still pretty tidy though. Not a major issue.


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

suvartet said:


> Yeap, happy here too.
> 
> Just wondering if anyone is getting popcorning fragments jump out of the funnel and through the small gap between the lid and funnel? I'm getting shards of coffee on the table around the grinder and just noticed it happen this morning.
> 
> No biggie. It's still much cleaner than my HG-1 that had an open top.


It sure does.


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> Yes, I get the fragments. The lid obviously sits a bit high to allow the collar to adjust upwards as it's unscrewed. This leaves a gap for some bits to fly through and then they fall out when you open the lid.
> 
> It is still pretty tidy though. Not a major issue.


I was looking for it - but it has not happened here yet. Maybe it also has something to do with what beans you use?


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Yeah, I don't think I have really noticed that myself. Perhaps I am just messy enough with my coffee making that a few extra bits on the counter don't draw my attention.


----------



## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

I do get it but it is once every few shots not all the time.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

I get it too but only the odd shard. I tend to find them sat near the markers just under where the lid sits.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Perhaps the odd bit sometimes....for a few microseconds I considered putting a very soft squish foam strip there, but sanity prevailed. I tried weighing them all and it "don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world". So I didn't worry about it...

As people say, you need to have a certain amount of clearance for when the funnel backed out for a coarse grind vs screwed in for a fine grind. I suppose if it really bothers find a small plastic press pot lid toss on top of the beans before the lid is closed this stops it, but just for a shard. weighing perhaps 0.001 of a gram?

There are definitely some tips and tricks I have learnt in my time using the Niche. One is always to tighten the grind to the point you want having gone past it....this seeming to me mechanically the best way to use the Niche...anyone who uses a very high precision lathe will instantly know what I mean and why.

e.g. going coarse, go farther than you want and then go back finer to where you wanted to be. Going finer, just move to the point you want...if you go too fine back off farther than you want and then move finer to where you wanted to be.

If it's not clear when I have time I will do a Video (unless someone else does one first)...


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> ...One is always to tighten the grind to the point you want having gone past it....this seeming me mechanically the best way to use the Niche...anyone who uses a very high precision lathe will instantly know what I mean and why...


Sure do.


----------



## Zagato (Jul 24, 2016)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I get it too but only the odd shard. I tend to find them sat near the markers just under where the lid sits.


This, not an issue, the brush is great for clearing them.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Zagato said:


> This, not an issue, the brush is great for clearing them.


I've never found it an issue. I was just confirming that I find them too. I just pick them off with a finger. No issue whatsoever.


----------



## Zagato (Jul 24, 2016)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I've never found it an issue. I was just confirming that I find them too. I just pick them off with a finger. No issue whatsoever.


Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that you did, just that I notice the same thing.

Definitely not messy.


----------



## TimO (Nov 2, 2018)

A little late to the party, but wanted to just say thanks to @DavecUK for the comprehensive review information on YouTube, very informative and the Niche is impressive indeed.

It's making me ponder my grinder choice now, which is why I joined here.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TimO said:


> A little late to the party, but wanted to just say thanks to @DavecUK for the comprehensive review information on YouTube, very informative and the Niche is impressive indeed.
> 
> It's making me ponder my grinder choice now, which is why I joined here.


Plenty of owners on here now who I am sure will give you their opinion as well.


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## TimO (Nov 2, 2018)

Is it in full production now and a fully fledged retail product, or still in development?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TimO said:


> Is it in full production now and a fully fledged retail product, or still in development?


In production, but still taking orders via the Indeigogo platform. They have made and sold quite a few grinders now.


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## TimO (Nov 2, 2018)

Many thanks Dave, I'll continue my research into it, but so far it's performance seems really good.

I have to admit I'm not a fan of the plastic lid though, the whole product looks premium and exudes quality, apart from that nasty plastic lid. I'm sure there's a reason, but something sympathetic and in tune with the wooden accented base would I think have really finished it off. A wooden lid with a viewing window in the top if needed perhaps (could be offered as an option?). But hey I'm being picky and it probably wouldn't stop me buying one, I just think it lets it down somewhat.

Great to see British design doing well


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

TimO said:


> Many thanks Dave, I'll continue my research into it, but so far it's performance seems really good.
> 
> I have to admit I'm not a fan of the plastic lid though, the whole product looks premium and exudes quality, apart from that nasty plastic lid. I'm sure there's a reason, but something sympathetic and in tune with the wooden accented base would I think have really finished it off. A wooden lid with a viewing window in the top if needed perhaps (could be offered as an option?). But hey I'm being picky and it probably wouldn't stop me buying one, I just think it lets it down somewhat.
> 
> Great to see British design doing well


The lid is not plastic!


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## TimO (Nov 2, 2018)

Apologies, 'lexan polycarbonate thermoplastic' - certainly visually and to someone who didn't know it is though. But point taken.

It was only an observation, feedback is a gift, especially for a new product. I didn't mean to offend anyone.


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## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

Naa I get ya. I felt the same way when I saw it in pictures. Looked a little flimsy compared to the rest of the build.

After using it though, I think it's a good choice. And despite looks, it is high quality when you use it. Its hard to imagine what the grinder would look like with a wood lid, but I do like looking at the whole metal funnel though the clear lid.



TimO said:


> Apologies, 'lexan polycarbonate thermoplastic' - certainly visually and to someone who didn't know it is though. But point taken.
> 
> It was only an observation, feedback is a gift, especially for a new product. I didn't mean to offend anyone.


----------



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

At last I'm using my Niche. It arrived on the first day they shipped but I only got back to the uk this week to pick it up. Some funny looks going through security at Bristol airport with the grinder in my hand luggage yesterday.

I set set it up this morning so I've only used it 4 times. I watched Dave's video but I didn't need to do anything, just plug in and guess at the setting. 1st shot too fine but surprisingly was drinkable. 2nd shot spot on. This is my first time using a conical grinder and at least with this one there seems to be a greater margin of error than with my other flat burr grinder. I see what others say about the shot having more body but it's very early days to come to any conclusions however so far I'm happily impressed with the Niche.


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> There are definitely some tips and tricks I have learnt in my time using the Niche. One is always to tighten the grind to the point you want having gone past it....this seeming to me mechanically the best way to use the Niche...anyone who uses a very high precision lathe will instantly know what I mean and why.


Exactly how I've used mine for the same reason since new!


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Still waiting on @joey24dirt to start making custom wood parts for these....


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

TimO said:


> Many thanks Dave, I'll continue my research into it, but so far it's performance seems really good.
> 
> I have to admit I'm not a fan of the plastic lid though, the whole product looks premium and exudes quality, apart from that nasty plastic lid. I'm sure there's a reason, but something sympathetic and in tune with the wooden accented base would I think have really finished it off. A wooden lid with a viewing window in the top if needed perhaps (could be offered as an option?). But hey I'm being picky and it probably wouldn't stop me buying one, I just think it lets it down somewhat.
> 
> Great to see British design doing well


Actually, there's a couple of guys on here who work with wood who've got the measurements with a view of doing mods, although I don't know for sure what form they'll take.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

mctrials23 said:


> Still waiting on @joey24dirt to start making custom wood parts for these....


I need one in my hands first


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

joey24dirt said:


> I need one in my hands first


It will be interesting to see what they come up with


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I need one in my hands first


If no one local to you, when mine comes I will whip the lid off and post it to you. It's due when the cups eventually turn up!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Jony said:


> If no one local to you, when mine comes I will whip the lid off and post it to you. It's due when the cups eventually turn up!


Nice. I wanted to make replicas for all the wood parts if possible


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Nice. I wanted to make replicas for all the wood parts if possible


Will see if they all come off with relative ease.


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## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

To anyone else still on the fence regarding this grinder and who happens to be more into pour-over than espresso: this grinder is equally amazing at both. My previous grinder, a Wilfa, was a great introduction to the tastes of specialty coffee, but there is a sizable difference between the coffee I had with it for years, and the Kalita I made myself this morning with coffee ground using the Niche. All the flavors of the coffee feel clearer and more accentuated, having lost all trace of the "muddiness" I experienced previously. It was exactly the same cup I had at the coffee shop yesterday.

I ended up downing the 16g/250g cup I made within minutes.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Hey @kiisupai out of curiosity where do you set your Niche for pour over?


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## TimO (Nov 2, 2018)

cold war kid said:


> Actually, there's a couple of guys on here who work with wood who've got the measurements with a view of doing mods, although I don't know for sure what form they'll take.


Thanks for that, I'll keep me eye out for developments.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Here hoping a notification goes out this week to advise the cups have arrived.


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

Made a little mod not to the grinder but to my power outlet. I am aware we can leave our grinders on all day but not having a power off switch bothered me. Belkin sells for US style outlets (unsure about UK and others) called the "conserve power switch" Has a satisfying on/off click and turns green when active.
















(no clue why this is upside down, can't figure out how to make it not do this)


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## Beanbiken (Oct 4, 2018)

I have my Rocket plugged into a Belkin WeMo, so it will be easy to just add the Niche to it so they will both power up together.

BB


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

PineappleMonkey said:


> Made a little mod not to the grinder but to my power outlet. I am aware we can leave our grinders on all day but not having a power off switch bothered me. Belkin sells for US style outlets (unsure about UK and others) called the "conserve power switch" Has a satisfying on/off click and turns green when active.
> 
> View attachment 37317
> 
> ...


In the UK, the vast majority of power sockets have switches built in. That's exactly what I do with mine, I leave the switch in the "on" position at all times and switch it on/off at the wall.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> In the UK, the vast majority of power sockets have switches built in. That's exactly what I do with mine, I leave the switch in the "on" position at all times and switch it on/off at the wall.


That's also what extension leads with individual switches are so much less common in the UK.

I spent almost 2 decades in the mainland and I think all our leads had them, or at the very least one to turn them all on or off.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PineappleMonkey said:


> Made a little mod not to the grinder but to my power outlet. I am aware we can leave our grinders on all day but not having a power off switch bothered me. Belkin sells for US style outlets (unsure about UK and others) called the "conserve power switch" Has a satisfying on/off click and turns green when active.
> 
> View attachment 37317
> 
> ...


There are couple of ways

1. Remove the socket screws and rotate the socket 180 degrees, then your photos will be fine.

2. Turn off screen rotation and try using the camera upside down

3. Use an image editing program to rotate the image 180 degrees.

I prefer the 1st two options meself...


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> There are couple of ways
> 
> 1. Remove the socket screws and rotate the socket 180 degrees, then your photos will be fine.
> 
> ...


Yeah 1st one seems best, you only have to do it once and it will work forever.


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## Zagato (Jul 24, 2016)

I can't help but notice that DaveC manages to get grind cup to fit into his basket more securely than I can my 14g Rancilio one. Planning on upgrading them anyway to 18g VST, but does it make a difference whether ridged or ridge less?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ridge-less easy just to get out but I run a Naked PF.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Zagato said:


> I can't help but notice that DaveC manages to get grind cup to fit into his basket more securely than I can my 14g Rancilio one. Planning on upgrading them anyway to 18g VST, but does it make a difference whether ridged or ridge less?


Not really


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Zagato said:


> I can't help but notice that DaveC manages to get grind cup to fit into his basket more securely than I can my 14g Rancilio one. Planning on upgrading them anyway to 18g VST, but does it make a difference whether ridged or ridge less?


When you want to clean the (spouted)portafilter the non-ridged baskets are easier to remove. And I don't like to sometimes get loose grinds in the ridge.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Oh - BTW the grindcup that came with my Niche is 113gr. The scale @DavecUK is using in the video's -I have the same one- only goes to 100gr. I have not found a way to get it to tare to 0gr with the cup on. It just refuses to operate &#8230; I used/use my Acaia, but stopped weiging output. The retention is that constant and minimal.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tohenk2 said:


> Oh - BTW the grindcup that came with my Niche is 113gr. The scale @DavecUK is using in the video's -I have the same one- only goes to 100gr. I have not found a way to get it to tare to 0gr with the cup on. It just refuses to operate &#8230; I used/use my Acaia, but stopped weiging output. The retention is that constant and minimal.


I use mine like this


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Yep. That works. If I turn it on and then put on he cup it didn't want to tare (just kept saying o-ld) - but now it started with the cup on it does tare.

Thanks!


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## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

Jon_Foster said:


> Hey @kiisupai out of curiosity where do you set your Niche for pour over?


This post is a good guide:



Stevebee said:


> For me I use the following :
> 
> Espresso. 20
> 
> ...


I've done mine at around the center screw, i.e. the opposite side of 25.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

it looks tiny comared to your mythos! how does it compare taste wise ? if they were both the same price which one would you go for ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ianskelly said:


> it looks tiny comared to your mythos! how does it compare taste wise ? if they were both the same price which one would you go for ?


It is hard to compare the taste of a flat burr against a conical as they are so different.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

kiisupai said:


> This post is a good guide:
> 
> I've done mine at around the center screw, i.e. the opposite side of 25.


Perfect! Thank you


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

kiisupai said:


> This post is a good guide:
> 
> I've done mine at around the center screw, i.e. the opposite side of 25.





oscar-b said:


> I added a small mark on the adjustment collar, offset -50 points from the white dot. This increases the measurable range from 0-50 to 0-100, which is needed for pour over. Now, instead of trying to set it to "right at the left hinge" I can set it properly to 72 for instance (my dot is then at 22). I think this is the easiest way to increase the range and make it possible to properly dial back to a coarse setting.
> 
> View attachment 37139


This is a much better idea.When the white dot is at zero I put a red dot at 50. Then when i move the white dot to the screw between the hinges, the red dot is for me at 32 - so adding the 50 gives a reading of 82. Much clearer and repeatable


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> There are couple of ways
> 
> 1. Remove the socket screws and rotate the socket 180 degrees, then your photos will be fine.
> 
> ...


LOL, if only this was the case and the image somehow flipping when uploaded...


----------



## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

Yesterday I had the white dot suddenly sticking on my finger. It's a tiny sticker and a succeeded on putting it back. I forgot to look if there's a screw behind so don't know if it would be a good idea to put some paint/tippex/... instead next time.


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## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

martinierius said:


> Yesterday I had the white dot suddenly sticking on my finger. It's a tiny sticker and a succeeded on putting it back. I forgot to look if there's a screw behind so don't know if it would be a good idea to put some paint/tippex/... instead next time.


I had the same thing happen. I don't think there was a screw or anything, just an indentation.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Tipex is your friend, or even better a white, yellow, whatever dot of enamel paint...go raid your Sons/Daughters or Gender unsure Airfix kit. If you are a DIYer, boundless possibilities and shades await you from mat emulsion, vinyl silk, eggshell and gloss. If yourSons/Daughters or Gender unsure does any jewellery making with those little white beads, one of those and a touch of superglue works wonders. I await seeing peoples solutions with interest.









Apart from the disappearing dot, how is the coffee?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Or Nail Varnish









@DavecUK do you mean a bejazzle stuff haha


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Same thing happened with mine. I just stuck it back in.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jony said:


> Or Nail Varnish
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I think that's something inappropriate I means sort of kids beads. Well I suppose it could be a Bejazzle, I might be getting the bejazzle confused with something else.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

to DFK; in what way would it taste different( sorry i'm only used to my mazzer major) thanks


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ianskelly said:


> to DFK; in what way would it taste different( sorry i'm only used to my mazzer major) thanks


good question! I am not the most technically gifted person on here so will allow others to explain the science, but, if you gave the a sheet of music to two pianists and asked them to play it, then you will get two different interpretations of the same thing. If you look at a flat burr and a conical burr, the breaking/crushing parts are in different areas. A conical burr the grind travels down the full width, slowly due to rpm. A flat uses centrifugal force to chuck it out. The result is that the same bean can and does taste totally different. Asa very general rule of thumb, conicals seem better suited to darker beans, but not exclusively


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

Thank you for the explanation! Possibly the niche maybe better for me

as I tend to prefer Italian style chocolaty beans then?


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

ianskelly said:


> Thank you for the explanation! Possibly the niche maybe better for me
> 
> as I tend to prefer Italian style chocolaty beans then?


I would be thinking about what you're using it for more than the taste profile differences, you can always find a coffee that will taste good on either, but if you buy a grinder that doesn't suit your needs you'll be disappointed.

The Mythos is an absolute pleasure to use, though I like to make sure the hopper is full, it makes for very consistent results. The ease of use and cleanliness of the Mythos is second to none, perfect grinds even time.

The Niche is my favourite grinder to use for daily coffee's now. It is more labour intensive and slower (who really cares about speed?). The Mythos isn't exactly the fastest grinder either. It has a wonderful grind adjustment system and is so easy to dial in (The fastest grinder I've used to dial in). Taste out of both is brilliant.

I love my Mythos so much, but the freshness of beans ground with the Niche and it's dialling in ability, make it my pick for the home user(when making 3 coffees or less at a time). Both are great and well worth considering.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

Ran into a slight issue tonight, wondering if anyone can help.

Had my grinder calibrated and on 18 for espresso. Tonight set forward (anti clockwise) to 0 for French press which was delicious. I've now gone to turn it back to 18 (clockwise) but it stiffens after quarter of a turn and then won't seem to go any further. Removed collar, cleaned, replaced, but still seems to be stuck. Have I missed something, or could something be stuck in the burrs? Should I just try and recalibrate?


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

I can also hear the spring pinging as I turn which I don't remember before - is that normal?


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Inglorious Alf said:


> I can also hear the spring pinging as I turn which I don't remember before - is that normal?


I haven't had this experience. If no one can help here - Niche towers should be able to help.

And, by the way, and accepting your glitch, I think the Niche is brilliant and a dream to dial in.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Inglorious Alf said:


> I can also hear the spring pinging as I turn which I don't remember before - is that normal?


Are you running the grinder for a few seconds every 10-15 marks as you go finer after coarse grinding ?

Also remove top adjustment ring and manually press top burr down and release pressure, what happens?


----------



## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

Inglorious Alf said:


> but it stiffens after quarter of a turn and then won't seem to go any further. Removed collar, cleaned, replaced, but still seems to be stuck. Have I missed something, or could something be stuck in the burrs? Should I just try and recalibrate?


When I'm going from drip back to espresso I found the adjustment collar gets tights after about 10 clicks. So as DaveC said, just run the grinder for a few seconds. Then adjust finer til it's stiff; 10 clicks-ish. Then run grinder. Repeat until at setting required.


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

Ok all sorted, thank you! Back to 20 for espresso and all is fine. Lost my white dot on the way but will buy some tipex today. Oh and the French Press I made last night (Extract's Dr Strangelove, El Salvador) far exceeded any French Press I ever had with my old Vario - bright, delicate and almost sweet, no lingering bitters, and absolutely no fines or sludge left in my mug. Can't wait to make another one.



DavecUK said:


> Are you running the grinder for a few seconds every 10-15 marks as you go finer after coarse grinding ?
> 
> Also remove top adjustment ring and manually press top burr down and release pressure, what happens?


I thought I was, but I don't think I was running it often enough as I adjusted, and then became nervous to run it when I thought the burrs might be touching. Sounds silly as I know they couldn't have been but can't help being cautious with it! I just needed to persevere. The burr does move when I press it down, the spring is fine.


suvartet said:


> When I'm going from drip back to espresso I found the adjustment collar gets tights after about 10 clicks. So as DaveC said, just run the grinder for a few seconds. Then adjust finer til it's stiff; 10 clicks-ish. Then run grinder. Repeat until at setting required.


Thanks, this is all I needed to do, although I'm sure I ran it when it first got stiff and it remained stiff. I think I was probably just being a little too delicate with attempts to turn the collar, not that I needed to force it or anything, just needed a moderate amount of pressure to keep tightening.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It's great that there is no problem. Instead of Tippex make an old engineer very happy & treat yourself to a small modellers pot of enamel paint and a fine brush. You could even choose a flourescent colour other than white.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I seem to suddenly be getting a quiet but constant high pitched beep when running the grinder. Anyone else hearing something like this. I don't think its burrs rubbing, sounds electrical to me.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> It's great that there is no problem. Instead of Tippex make an old engineer very happy & treat yourself to a small modellers pot of enamel paint and a fine brush. You could even choose a flourescent colour other than white.


Red gloss enamel paint and a cotton bud did the trick.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Now I am very happy....I would also have chosen red or perhaps yellow. I hope you didn't steal someones nail polish? hopefully we have started a trend









just thinking I am sure I have a pot of Metallic Gold somewhere....


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> I seem to suddenly be getting a quiet but constant high pitched beep when running the grinder. Anyone else hearing something like this. I don't think its burrs rubbing, sounds electrical to me.


Nothing inside it capable of making an electronic beep as far as I know? *Make a Video with sound*.

Try removing the top burr ring and top burr only. Close the lid and run the grinder....does it still make a sound. Then remove the bottom burr and sweep arm as well, does it still "beep". Removing the burrs should only take a few minutes.


----------



## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

suvartet said:


> When I'm going from drip back to espresso I found the adjustment collar gets tights after about 10 clicks. So as DaveC said, just run the grinder for a few seconds. Then adjust finer til it's stiff; 10 clicks-ish. Then run grinder. Repeat until at setting required.


Or find an appropriately sized implement to hold the interlock button down so that you can run the grinder whilst adjusting...

disclaimer: not recommended if you lack control of your limbs, lack understanding of what a grinder does, or are working underneath small objects that have a tendancy to fall onto your workspace


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Nothing inside it capable of making an electronic beep as far as I know? *Make a Video with sound*.
> 
> Try removing the top burr ring and top burr only. Close the lid and run the grinder....does it still make a sound. Then remove the bottom burr and sweep arm as well, does it still "beep". Removing the burrs should only take a few minutes.


Cheers dave, i've just done this and it doesn't make any noise without the top burr. I gave it a good clean as there was a lot of compacted coffee on the top burr but its still making the same noise, perhaps a tiny bit quieter.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Cheers dave, i've just done this and it doesn't make any noise without the top burr. I gave it a good clean as there was a lot of compacted coffee on the top burr but its still making the same noise, perhaps a tiny bit quieter.


try the things below in order.

*Video would be good, but it does sound as if something is rubbing.* Again simply turn it to a very coarse grind and bring the ring back by 5 marks just to be sure the outer ring has pressed cleanly onto the top burr. Does the noise go away at a coarse grind.

*Don't forget to pull out the phone and instead of shooting a selfie, shoot a video (with sound of coarse), only take 30 seconds, upload to your tube as unlisted and shove a link here.*

*
*

When you took the top burr out, did you take a photo, or note how the top of the sweep arms looked, any witness marks etc..

All the questions are because I have never had a squeaking/beeping noise beofre in over a year of testing and different Niche grinders.

The last possibility is that someone compacted coffee or a foreign object has got below the sweep arms and you can remove the bottom burr and sweep arms and give it all a good clean....probably not the issue, but you never know. The reason why the top burr off may have silenced it is because of course there is little pressure bearing down hen grinding.

P.S. If you have "discovered" something as yet undiscovered, it would be great to solve it. At least you know the beep is not electronic, not the control board, not the motor etc..


----------



## enrm6 (Jun 7, 2018)

suvartet said:


> Naa I get ya. I felt the same way when I saw it in pictures. Looked a little flimsy compared to the rest of the build.
> 
> After using it though, I think it's a good choice. And despite looks, it is high quality when you use it. Its hard to imagine what the grinder would look like with a wood lid, but I do like looking at the whole metal funnel though the clear lid.


I agree, I like the plastic lid, it certainly helps being transparent. And the moulding is rather nice. We will see how robust it proves to be.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Thanks for all of that Dave, I have taken it apart again because I'm an idiot and I seem to struggle to reproduce "finger tight" so ended up with a super coarse grind after calibration. I'll have a go at removing the bottom burr and sweep arm to see if that makes any difference. I didn't notice any marks on the top of the sweep arm when the top burr was off.


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> It's great that there is no problem. Instead of Tippex make an old engineer very happy & treat yourself to a small modellers pot of enamel paint and a fine brush. You could even choose a flourescent colour other than white.


Or pop into a naked If motor factors & get a small pot of car touch up paint. It'll have it's own brush in the lid (like tippex) but be much harder wearing.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Or pop into a naked If motor factors & get a small pot of car touch up paint. It'll have it's own brush in the lid (like tippex) but be much harder wearing.


I guess you culd match the dot to the colour of your car, well as long as the car isn't a dark colour like black. The major achievement is we have stopped talking about sticking the dot back on and moved to more innovative (better) solutions


----------



## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

thanks for the breakdown ! if you had to go purely on taste is there much difference in the cup?


----------



## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

Prompted by some previous posts I got looking for some single shot storage containers and found these, look pretty smart with the metal tops. Nicely made and size accurate.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-100mL-Empty-Clear-Glass-Wishing-Bottles-Craft-Vials-Jars-With-Gold-Silver-Lid/222681072344?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=521535902952&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

I got 2 sizes the 60ml - 110mm 30mm and 70ml - 80mm * 37mm, the photos are with 18g of beans. Think a 50ml may just also just get 18g in, with some beans in the threaded part.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

This has all been very quiet, with so many forum members having purchased the grinder, so many posts about what order number people are when it's coming why the grind cups etc.. etc.. I really had thought there would be videos showing shots from the Niche, people talking about flavours ease of use etc.. etc.. Most people have had the grinders for a while now and any stuff about taste and using the grinder is surprisingly thin on the ground? To be honest I expected loads of posts....


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Maybe they're all waiting for a niche subforum to be created.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Is seeing all those commercial grinders that are 2-3 times more expensive than Niche not enough for you, Dave?!

I sometimes think of Niche as being boring. It just works, it's easy to use, no need to do any crazy rituals and does the job well. The fact that the biggest mod to it so far has been a fix for the dial dot (or adding a secondary one) just proves this point!


----------



## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

PPapa said:


> I sometimes think of Niche as being boring.


There's no pleasing some people!


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

I agree. If it just works and people are happy that's a really good sign. There's been hardly any noise from people with faulty grinders or who are unhappy with the results. Even the people who weren't keen on the aesthetics are mostly saying that they love it in the flesh.

The only downside for me isn't Niche but DPD Local. They're well known within the warehousing industry as being a company that are only used to save money, their service is generally woeful. When Citylink went bust we started using them at work and they lasted about a week. It was a total shambles.

They should have delivered my grinder on Friday, then when I rang them to say it hadn't arrived, they promised Monday AM, now Monday AM has been and gone and they're not answering calls in the call centre.

As I say, not really Niche's fault so hopefully if and when I finally get it I'll be all the happier having to wait with bated breath.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Robbo said:


> There's no pleasing some people!


I totally understand where he's coming from. If it just does what it says on the tin and provides great service for years, there's no drama or long threads about mods or faults. It just ticks along and does what it does.

Boring, but in a good way.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Robbo said:


> There's no pleasing some people!


Nah, I'm just being cheeky - it doesn't satisfy the geekiness of this forum. There's so little tinkering required that it takes something away.

I'd like a longer power cable though... might be worthwhile having a look.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> Nah, I'm just being cheeky - it doesn't satisfy the geekiness of this forum. There's so little tinkering required that it takes something away.
> 
> I'd like a longer power cable though... might be worthwhile having a look.


You would like a 2 to 3 metres cable yeah? Seriously it's a Kitchen appliance and the existing length seems sounds like a sensible one to me...you really don't want appliances with very long leads in Kitchens, especially when they are on a worktop..


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## hifimacianer (Sep 27, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> Maybe they're all waiting for a niche subforum to be created.


Or waiting for the grind cups


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> You would like a 2 to 3 metres cable yeah? Seriously it's a Kitchen appliance and the existing length seems sounds like a sensible one to me...you really don't want appliances with very long leads in Kitchens, especially when they are on a worktop..


You may do if you have socket under worktops accessed via a cable-hole (I'm sure there's a name for it!) in the worktop


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> You would like a 2 to 3 metres cable yeah? Seriously it's a Kitchen appliance and the existing length seems sounds like a sensible one to me...you really don't want appliances with very long leads in Kitchens, especially when they are on a worktop..


It's in my kitchen... both Sage DTP and Niche have short cables. I have two sockets available on that side of the counter (one at the counter height on the left and one at the right by the floor), but I am constrained where I can put them both by the cable lengths.

I could get photos and schematics to prove my point that the cable is not long enough *for me*, but I don't have anything to prove and I could solve this by an extension lead.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

cold war kid said:


> I agree. If it just works and people are happy that's a really good sign. There's been hardly any noise from people with faulty grinders or who are unhappy with the results. Even the people who weren't keen on the aesthetics are mostly saying that they love it in the flesh.
> 
> The only downside for me isn't Niche but DPD Local. They're well known within the warehousing industry as being a company that are only used to save money, their service is generally woeful. When Citylink went bust we started using them at work and they lasted about a week. It was a total shambles.
> 
> ...


I've finally managed to get through to them, making myself late for work in the process.

They think they've lost it. I say think because there's nobody answering the phone at the Eccles depot were it was last scanned Thursday night.

I seriously disinterested Brummie has asked me to contact Niche to sent out another unit while they investigate. The problem is Niche only accept emails up to 500 characters. Does anybody have a phone number for them? I promise I'll calm down before I call.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Mine is due in Dec. How and when do you get an update telling you about your number or an estimated date?

I don't want to have to contact Santa instead! I've heard he's got an offshore call centre thats abysmal.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> It's in my kitchen... both Sage DTP and Niche have short cables. I have two sockets available on that side of the counter (one at the counter height on the left and one at the right by the floor), but I am constrained where I can put them both by the cable lengths.
> 
> I could get photos and schematics to prove my point that the cable is not long enough *for me*, but I don't have anything to prove and I could solve this by an extension lead.


A multiplug may work.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

cold war kid said:


> They should have delivered my grinder on Friday, then when I rang them to say it hadn't arrived, they promised Monday AM, now Monday AM has been and gone and they're not answering calls in the call centre.
> 
> As I say, not really Niche's fault so hopefully if and when I finally get it I'll be all the happier having to wait with bated breath.


Actually this is an issue for Niche as it reflects on them as a company as they chose who they use and ultimately have the leverage of business


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

I've been using it for hardly a month and I have forgotten completely my former grinders, it's like the Niche had been here for ages and I think I could never come back to a grinder with hopper. The Niche is cleaner, it's much easier to adjust, it's more compact, I can switch between coffees, I can switch between filter and espresso, I'm saving about 15%-20% of coffee. First grinder I bought was a Mignon, then a Fiorenzato Nano (better distribution and digital timer but same result in cup as the Mignon) and now the Niche. Improvement in cup is massive, better mouthfeel, better crema, more complexity and better balance. The consistency is just astonishing, easy to get the spot in every shot.

My biggest concern was about being conical as I had never tried one at home and they are supposed to work better with darker roasts. I don't know how good it would be with dark beans as I prefer "third wave" style, but it's much better than the 58 flat Fiorenzato with these lighter coffees. Of course I can not compare with high end expensive grinders as I have never owned one, but it has been a great step comming from my Fiorenzato.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> This has all been very quiet, with so many forum members having purchased the grinder, so many posts about what order number people are when it's coming why the grind cups etc.. etc.. I really had thought there would be videos showing shots from the Niche, people talking about flavours ease of use etc.. etc.. Most people have had the grinders for a while now and any stuff about taste and using the grinder is surprisingly thin on the ground? To be honest I expected loads of posts....


I'd happily see more content around the Niche in action. I'll try and make a video soon too.

To be fair though there have been nearly 800 posts on this thread in less than 6 weeks!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Inglorious Alf said:


> I'd happily see more content around the Niche in action. I'll try and make a video soon too.
> 
> To be fair though there have been nearly 800 posts on this thread in less than 6 weeks!


This is true, but I was hoping to see more Vids and content in terms of usage, retention, dose consistency and taste etc.. I do enjoy watching the various vids people put up of workflow and shots....


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

MildredM said:


> You may do if you have socket under worktops accessed via a cable-hole (I'm sure there's a name for it!) in the worktop


I have a socket on the floor under the worktop as well as a wall outlet. I do like the cables to be sort of invisible. But it is just a few cm short for a straight line down.

The grinder is just that good that I enjoy silently using it. (Still vaguely curious about Monolith's but that's about it.)

Switching between 5 coffees and the only problem is that I have to remember to switch settings as well as coffees


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Downunder55 said:


> Prompted by some previous posts I got looking for some single shot storage containers and found these, look pretty smart with the metal tops. Nicely made and size accurate.
> 
> I got 2 sizes the 60ml - 110mm 30mm and 70ml - 80mm * 37mm, the photos are with 18g of beans. Think a 50ml may just also just get 18g in, with some beans in the threaded part.


I liked the looks enough to buy some 40ml ones (since I mainly make single shots). Thanks for posting!


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## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

M_H_S said:


> Mine is due in Dec. How and when do you get an update telling you about your number or an estimated date?
> 
> I don't want to have to contact Santa instead! I've heard he's got an offshore call centre thats abysmal.


I didn't know mine was coming until I saw the DPD van arrive. No prior email.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I've got about 4 different S/O beans and my usual staple. Soooo itching to try them but I would have to empty the current grinder, clean it then put the beans in and finish them.

Now, that all changes when the Niche arrives as I will be able chop and change as and when required without cross contamination.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Paul K said:


> I've got about 4 different S/O beans and my usual staple. Soooo itching to try them but I would have to empty the current grinder, clean it then put the beans in and finish them.
> 
> Now, that all changes when the Niche arrives as I will be able chop and change as and when required without cross contamination.


As I do all the time Paul, works a treat. Swapping caf to decaf equally easy.

Workflow is just fantastic now I've had it a few weeks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PPapa said:


> I'd like a longer power cable though... might be worthwhile having a look.


I'm using mine in the office at the mo', all the sockets are skirting board height, another 15cm would be useful.


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## Beanbiken (Oct 4, 2018)

I'd love to share my experiences with my Niche but unfortunately I can't as I am one of those in the "grind cup wilderness":waiting:......... I can add though that I am planing on ditching the Oak timber and replacing it with Aussie Red Gum to match the timber on my machine, tamper and other bits. Will post images once all done. Unfortunately that appears to be some time into whenever.............

BB


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## Kilo (Dec 1, 2012)

I had a look at the vid. From DaveC on removing and cleaning the burrs. After that I removed the burrs from my Niche and noticed that the vanes under the burr of my grinder are different from the ones in the vid. The ones in the vid have a pin that falls in a hole in the middle burr. This is obviously to ensure the vanes are turning along with the burr. My vanes are without this pin. So the system relies on pressure from burr to the vanes alone. I wonder if this is a design change and why, also wether there is a risk the vanes will slip relatively to the burr. I didn't see any signs of damage from slipping, so probably no worries.

Love my Niche by the way.


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## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

@Kilo

See post #349 for info on this.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Kilo said:


> I had a look at the vid. From DaveC on removing and cleaning the burrs. After that I removed the burrs from my Niche and noticed that the vanes under the burr of my grinder are different from the ones in the vid. The ones in the vid have a pin that falls in a hole in the middle burr. This is obviously to ensure the vanes are turning along with the burr. My vanes are without this pin. So the system relies on pressure from burr to the vanes alone. I wonder if this is a design change and why, also wether there is a risk the vanes will slip relatively to the burr. I didn't see any signs of damage from slipping, so probably no worries.
> 
> Love my Niche by the way.


I assume by vanes you are talking about the sweeper arm that moves the ground coffee around to the chute and out into the cup?

Mine are held in by pressure alone but the bolt that holds the bottom burr in place will be placing enough force to keep that in place and moving with the burr. Its literally sweeping a few grams of coffee around so I doubt there is any danger of it becoming loose or not moving with the burr. If it gets to the point where this isn't happening I think your bottom burr would be loose enough for you to have bigger issues in the actual grinding.


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## Kilo (Dec 1, 2012)

Ah thanks. The sweeper arms they are called. No reason for worries...


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

I just got negative feedback on videos I posted so I stopped posting them. I was just trying out a few different things with the grinder and not professing to know everything. People got too defensive of the Niche also, it's great, it's not perfect. I highly recommend it, but it isn't the only worthwhile grinder to own on the market.

I did have an experience with the Niche the other day where I found the taste far too exaggerated, I ended up preferring the flavour I got from my Mythos. It is the first batch of beans that I've not been happy with the flavour I've been able to get from the Niche. A better barista might have got rid of the brightness, but everything I tried couldn't.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> This is true, but I was hoping to see more Vids and content in terms of usage, retention, dose consistency and taste etc.. I do enjoy watching the various vids people put up of workflow and shots....


I started recording the retention for every shot but have missed the last few due to being too busy and I'm reluctant to publish results which might not be reliable because as much as I check the scales zero before recording a result, they are £7 scales so may not be all that accurate or consistent.

Regarding flavours, again I struggle as although I'm using the same beans at work and home, the work setup is the Niche with a Vivaldi Mini and at home it's the EK and Vesuvius (with various profiles). I did set the Vesuvius to a flat profile of the same pressure I've adjusted the Vivaldi OPV to (about 7.5 bar) the other day and followed the same recipe but I would really need to bring the Niche home and try them back to back to provide any useful comparison with the EK. I can't see me swapping the EK though.

What I do like is the ease of use and consistency. I also like the solenoid push button activation of the Vivaldi which means I can usually stop shots within a fraction of a gram of each other. Obviously it's slower than the EK and the last few beans can dance around a while but that's a minor criticism. I'm finding I often use lifting the lid as the way of switching it on and off between shots to speed up workflow a bit. I agree that the cable could do with being longer as it won't reach the skirting level socket from the unit it's on at work.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Primabarista said:


> I just got negative feedback on videos I posted so I stopped posting them. I was just trying out a few different things with the grinder and not professing to know everything. People got too defensive of the Niche also, it's great, it's not perfect. I highly recommend it, but it isn't the only worthwhile grinder to own on the market.
> 
> I did have an experience with the Niche the other day where I found the taste to exaggerated, I ended up preferring the flavour I got from my Mythos. It is the first batch of beans that I've not been happy with the flavour I've been able to get from the Niche. A better barista might have got rid of the brightness, but everything I tried couldn't.


I didn't notice any negative feedback on the Videos from anyone....I remember them well, the Niche sandwiched between a Mythos and Synesso?

I do think posting videos is far more important than people think and I don't mean all the edited stuff with music and soft lights...I mean the normal unedited start to finish stuff. It helps people new to coffee get an accurate understanding of what's involved and how different kit "actually" works in reality. It allows the experienced to share techniques and promotes discussion on potential improvements and issues in the process being used. I moved to a lot more Video for reviewing because I felt it gave a far more accurate perspective for the viewer and for me when I wanted to look back at certain things. I deliberately don't try to edit them to make it look good, so the person can understand what it's "really" going to be like.

My own reluctance to moving more to video was seeing very polished videos on the web and thinking that's what was required, but realising that they are little more than advertorials and of little use to the person actually wanting to see something or learn something. I've learnt as much from watching peoples mistakes as I have their successes. In fact I got some criticism on a foreign forum recently because they didn't understand the language properly and misunderstood some of my shots where I was dialling in and saying I had a gusher as shots I thought were good. I didn't let it concern me, I just learned that people can always misinterpret something, especially as my youtube videos are not exclusively viewed by English speaking people and I needed to be more careful how I showed things.

I suspect some of my videos may also have dislikes as well as a few likes, or negative comments....that's OK too...if your not doing it commercially for subs, who cares. My videos are not monetised (at least not by me), people are entitled not to like the videos, or even mock them. Do the videos to help people, if some people give negative feedback....well you can't help everyone can you?

I'd encourage you to keep putting more videos up and see the feedback as a gift....

Just to make my point, the Video below (made to help people) had a dislike...why, I have no idea (admittedly I disabled comments)...there is no understanding things sometimes?


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I didn't notice any negative feedback on the Videos from anyone....I remember them well, the Niche sandwiched between a Mythos and Synesso?
> 
> I do think posting videos is far more important than people think and I don't mean all the edited stuff with music and soft lights...I mean the normal unedited start to finish stuff. It helps people new to coffee get an accurate understanding of what's involved and how different kit "actually" works in reality. It allows the experienced to share techniques and promotes discussion on potential improvements and issues in the process being used. I moved to a lot more Video for reviewing because I felt it gave a far more accurate perspective for the viewer and for me when I wanted to look back at certain things. I deliberately don't try to edit them to make it look good, so the person can understand what it's "really" going to be like.
> 
> ...


I'm all for negative feedback. It helps me improve my workflow and might help others think of something they haven't thought of. It's the laziness of people not reading the descriptions and then complaining about the very thing I've described in the description, I've got to learn to just ignore it I guess.

Back on the Niche, I still find I'm not getting the best results when trying to move the coffee into the portafilter. It's quite fiddly, I regularly don't get pours I'm hoping for. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I do usually stir the grinds in the portafilter and that helps, but it still is a little uneven at times.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I assume you are stirring the grinds in the grind cup before transferring them to the portafilter....I give them a mix with a chopstick.

As for the pours I guess it's tricky, because your machine flow profiles does it not?


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

Primabarista said:


> I'm all for negative feedback. It helps me improve my workflow and might help others think of something they haven't thought of. It's the laziness of people not reading the descriptions and then complaining about the very thing I've described in the description, I've got to learn to just ignore it I guess.
> 
> Back on the Niche, I still find I'm not getting the best results when trying to move the coffee into the portafilter. It's quite fiddly, I regularly don't get pours I'm hoping for. Does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> I do usually stir the grinds in the portafilter and that helps, but it still is a little uneven at times.


That's it, it's better to ignore people not able to read four simple words...

What I'm doing with better result than shaking is tapping the botton of the cup two or three times, put the pf on the tamping "station" and tap a couple of times to sit the grounds. Coffee grounds are better distributed for me and there is almost nothing remaining in the grinding cup. So: stir grounds, transfer to pf, tap bottom, tap resting on tamping base and then tap sides, ocd and tamp. I will post a video, hope it will be better than my English.


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## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)




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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

I solemnly promise to post a video when mine arrives in January. In the mean time I would like to see videos of the Niche in action.

C'mon... Don't be shy..


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

I also have a relevant question to you proud owners. Do you need to season these burrs? I assume that I'll need to run a few older beans through but maybe it's not necessary with the conical burrs


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

paul whu said:


> I also have a relevant question to you proud owners. Do you need to season these burrs? I assume that I'll need to run a few older beans through but maybe it's not necessary with the conical burrs


Just use the grinder, it will be fine. Dave reckons it will get better after 15kg, but that's a ton of beans for a home user.


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## Beanbiken (Oct 4, 2018)

For anyone still waiting I've just checked my contribution and I am #1257 and my status is now "contribution locked" I'm guessing the cups are not too far. I expect that my grinder is assembled and waiting on a $5.00 cup. Ahh well shet happens









BB


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Beanbiken said:


> For anyone still waiting I've just checked my contribution and I am #1257 and my status is now "contribution locked" I'm guessing the cups are not too far. I expect that my grinder is assembled and waiting on a $5.00 cup. Ahh well shet happens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When you first paid. Which month were you due delivery?


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## Beanbiken (Oct 4, 2018)

November


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Beanbiken said:


> For anyone still waiting I've just checked my contribution and I am #1257 and my status is now "contribution locked" I'm guessing the cups are not too far. I expect that my grinder is assembled and waiting on a $5.00 cup. Ahh well shet happens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll confirm that as well. I'm #1222 and my contribution is locked and I have a November delivery date also.

I emailed Martin yesterday regarding an ETA with the cups and he said end of the month.

How long did people wait from the contribution being locked to the contribution being fulfilled and actually receiving their grinder?


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## Yannick (Oct 16, 2018)

I am #1317 and my contribution is also locked so I guess the grinder is ready and waiting for the proverbial cup


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Hey guys, apologies, I'm not into telling people where they should post stuff but friendly heads up that this thread was created specifically to speak about everything niche apart from deliveries/order numbers, etc because that's what the original Niche thread had become. Probably best to use that thread for all that stuff. Cheers


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Jon_Foster said:


> Hey guys, apologies, I'm not into telling people where they should post stuff but friendly heads up that this thread was created specifically to speak about everything niche apart from deliveries/order numbers, etc because that's what the original Niche thread had become. Probably best to use that thread for all that stuff. Cheers


Guilty as charged. Apologies to the forum members


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Hey guys, apologies, I'm not into telling people where they should post stuff but friendly heads up that this thread was created specifically to speak about everything niche apart from deliveries/order numbers, etc because that's what the original Niche thread had become. Probably best to use that thread for all that stuff. Cheers


I was just about to post the same gentle nudge....


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

Having lived with the Niche for over a month I do feel that my workflow would be better if I had two Niche cups. So I am hoping these will be available to order soon. Do others feel the same?

Obviously, I dare not mention this 'nice to have' requirement on the other Niche thread for fear of being lynched.

Tony


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

What's your workflow that you need two? Running 2 groups?

Got to say, having a 58mm portafilter is great. So much easier than aligning the outer edges of portafilter hopper for a Sage 54mm basket.

I would definitely advise to get 54mm cups done if that's the basket size folk are using.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> Having lived with the Niche for over a month I do feel that my workflow would be better if I had two Niche cups. So I am hoping these will be available to order soon. Do others feel the same?
> 
> Obviously, I dare not mention this 'nice to have' requirement on the other Niche thread for fear of being lynched.
> 
> Tony


What would you do with two cups...

I really like the fact that I weight beans into the cup, tip into grinder, place cup under grinder and flick the switch and then just tip the grinds into the PF.


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## Yannick (Oct 16, 2018)

Jon_Foster said:


> Hey guys, apologies, I'm not into telling people where they should post stuff but friendly heads up that this thread was created specifically to speak about everything niche apart from deliveries/order numbers, etc because that's what the original Niche thread had become. Probably best to use that thread for all that stuff. Cheers


Sorry, I will try to pay more attention to that ... and make a first time user video when I get the Niche of course !


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Yannick said:


> Sorry, I will try to pay more attention to that ... and make a first time user video when I get the Niche of course !


That is the standard punishment for failing to post in the correct thread!


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

mctrials23 said:


> What would you do with two cups...
> 
> I really like the fact that I weight beans into the cup, tip into grinder, place cup under grinder and flick the switch and then just tip the grinds into the PF.


Would it not be better to get a small metal like cup / container for weighing the beans and keeping the Niche cup permanently on the grinder to catch the grinds.

Surely no need for a specific Niche cup just to weigh beans and pour them into the grinder


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

Paul K said:


> Would it not be better to get a small metal like cup / container for weighing the beans and keeping the Niche cup permanently on the grinder to catch the grinds.
> 
> Surely no need for a specific Niche cup just to weigh beans and pour them into the grinder


Yes that is an option...but i do like the niche logo on the cups


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> Yes that is an option...but i do like the niche logo on the cups


Lol    Devil's in the detail


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

PPapa said:


> What's your workflow that you need two? Running 2 groups?
> 
> Got to say, having a 58mm portafilter is great. So much easier than aligning the outer edges of portafilter hopper for a Sage 54mm basket.
> 
> I would definitely advise to get 54mm cups done if that's the basket size folk are using.


Yes I admit that 2 cups is a bit indulgent.... I also changed my machine after getting the Niche and find the ease of use with a 58mm pf much better.

Actually thinking about it I need 3 niche cups so i can juggle them to entertain my guests after making the coffee.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I've done a few pour overs and cold brews now, thanks to the Niche it has to be said. The results are great and I'm now really interested in doing more of this than I used to.

However... when I adjust back to espresso setting it's a bit of a faff. I probably manage to adjust finer by 4 settings before it tightens up. I then spin the burrs and repeat, with a quick twist coarser each time etc.

At 4 settings per go, it's about 15 or so adjustments to go from v60 to espresso.

Anyone else getting this?


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## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

Here's this mornings coffee.

(Please ignore family morning routine in the background.)

I haven't been stirring the grounds like DaveC has been advocating for, but I might start. Shaking the cup isn't as consistent as when I used to stir my HG-1 grounds; I was sort of hoping I could skip this step.

Grind setting is at 14. (Calibrated when grinder first arrived.)






And this is the setup front on. After using the grinder for a while I found having the Cremina on the left and the pro 300 on the right worked best for workflow (instead of grinder on far left; how I used to have the HG-1 positioned).


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

Re the 2 cups, I came to thinking I might at some point get a second scale for doing multiple drinks, but not a second grind cup. The cup comes free but the scale's still tied up. If you're pre-weighing then another cup would do it but you still have to break your routine for a third, right?


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

suvartet said:


> Here's this mornings coffee.
> 
> (Please ignore family morning routine in the background.)
> 
> ...


That pic looks amazing.


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## Beanbiken (Oct 4, 2018)

Yes my apologies for posting in the wrong thread, chose this one as it just seemed to be the more active one.......... In regards to grind cups Coffee Parts in Oz list a Tiamo grind cup on their site

https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/tiamo-dosing-cup

Unfortunately the cup diameter is not noted... but it may be worth investigating for those that wish for the extra cup

BB


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

suvartet said:


> Here's this mornings coffee.
> 
> (Please ignore family morning routine in the background.)
> 
> ...


Great set up, great pic, oh and a very nice pour.

Thanks for sharing.


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

LukeT said:


> Re the 2 cups, I came to thinking I might at some point get a second scale for doing multiple drinks, but not a second grind cup. The cup comes free but the scale's still tied up. If you're pre-weighing then another cup would do it but you still have to break your routine for a third, right?


yes 2 cups is just for pre weighing as i typically make 2 cups at a time. I will definitely be getting some containers so i can pre weigh for several people but havent found anything i like yet...and any more than 2 grind cups is just plain silly.

Tony


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## Topshot (Oct 10, 2018)

What about a cup like this?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I've done a few pour overs and cold brews now, thanks to the Niche it has to be said. The results are great and I'm now really interested in doing more of this than I used to.
> 
> However... when I adjust back to espresso setting it's a bit of a faff. I probably manage to adjust finer by 4 settings before it tightens up. I then spin the burrs and repeat, with a quick twist coarser each time etc.
> 
> ...


i'm surprised you can only go 4 little marks!! I find it fine to go 10 or 15 marks finer...in fact after the first few movements, it actually becomes easier as there is less and less trapped coffee in the burrs. This means you might find the first tighten movement a little less than subsequent ones. The whole thing of running the burrs is just so people don't go coarse and with a whole load of trapped grinds in the burrs haul the adjust back a whole turn in one go without any regard for the strain being put on things. Every 4 marks and run the burrs is excessive. I hope you are not flipping the switch each time, just raising and lowering the lid to go finer?


----------



## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

richwade80 said:


> I've done a few pour overs and cold brews now, thanks to the Niche it has to be said. The results are great and I'm now really interested in doing more of this than I used to.
> 
> However... when I adjust back to espresso setting it's a bit of a faff. I probably manage to adjust finer by 4 settings before it tightens up. I then spin the burrs and repeat, with a quick twist coarser each time etc.
> 
> ...


I have exactly the same experience with my Niche.


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

suvartet said:


> Here's this mornings coffee.
> 
> (Please ignore family morning routine in the background.)
> 
> ...


Fabulous setup @suvartet and really great video. One for the dedicated Niche forum section when it comes


----------



## natmat (Aug 24, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> &#8230; I hope you are not flipping the switch each time, just raising and lowering the lid to go finer?


Lifting the lid engages the recessed RED safety switch (I don't know if it switches the same current path as the main switch), so one switch is still being toggled.

Are you worried about 'over-using' the main on/off switch?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

natmat said:


> Lifting the lid engages the recessed RED safety switch (I don't know if it switches the same current path as the main switch), so one switch is still being toggled.
> 
> Are you worried about 'over-using' the main on/off switch?


Nah, it's just easier to use the little safety interlock microswitch than keep toggling that big switch. *If you think about it, you have to raise and lower the lid anyway and that switch is being actuated*...so why operate the toggle switch as well? To my mind operating 1 switch is more sensible than operating two. If the on off switch ever broke, I would buy a replacement one for £1 and solder it on the board (10 minutes work)....so I'm not worried about that.

I'm going to get some scrap beans though and try and find out why people think they can only move the ring 4 tiny marks coarser each time.....I'll even make a vid when I get round to it....but I'd love to see a vid of this minimal adjustment range back finer, super curious?


----------



## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

If only I was capable of taking and uploading videos Dave. For my weekly travel I grind coarsely to take with my cafetiere so I have regular experience of grinding from coarse (50) to fine (12 on current bean). In my case starting at 50 I notice tightening after about 6 marks, say at 44. But, as you say, it gets easier and from around 30 you can tighten 10 marks at a time. Of course, with no beans going from 50 to 12 with no resistance it's 10 marks at a time.


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Beanbiken said:


> Yes my apologies for posting in the wrong thread, chose this one as it just seemed to be the more active one.......... In regards to grind cups Coffee Parts in Oz list a Tiamo grind cup on their site
> 
> https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/tiamo-dosing-cup
> 
> ...


I have this cup, I'm in Aus. It is good, but it is a little shorter than the Niche cup, so it allows a few more fluffy grounds to escape onto the bench. It doesn't sit as deep into the portafilter as the Niche cup, which is a good and bad thing. Good it doesn't push the grinds away from the edge of the basket and bad because it's easier to spill the grinds out past the edge if you not holding it in tight.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I've done a few pour overs and cold brews now, thanks to the Niche it has to be said. The results are great and I'm now really interested in doing more of this than I used to.
> 
> However... when I adjust back to espresso setting it's a bit of a faff. I probably manage to adjust finer by 4 settings before it tightens up. I then spin the burrs and repeat, with a quick twist coarser each time etc.
> 
> ...


OK I adjusted finer for a carafe brew, this was one 360 degree turn from the espresso setting and I was back to espresso in 4 or 5 part turns, going 10 small marks on the first and progressively larger amounts on the second and subsequent turns (running the grinder between each one for a second or so).....it took me a 6 or 7 seconds to get back to my espresso setting.

Why you would require 15 adjustments is beyond me. Did you go more than one whole turn coarse then espresso, say 3 whole turns coarser, because then yeah it might take 10 - 12 smaller turns to get back...


----------



## randyr5 (Nov 13, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> I have this cup, I'm in Aus. It is good, but it is a little shorter than the Niche cup, so it allows a few more fluffy grounds to escape onto the bench. It doesn't sit as deep into the portafilter as the Niche cup, which is a good and bad thing. Good it doesn't push the grinds away from the edge of the basket and bad because it's easier to spill the grinds out past the edge if you not holding it in tight.


How tall is the Niche cup??


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

In most commercial grinders when you go for finer grind you keep the engine running. Is this for some reason not recommend for Niche?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pj.walczak said:


> In most commercial grinders when you go for finer grind you keep the engine running. Is this for some reason not recommend for Niche?


You can't do this, as you need to lift the lid to adjust setting & doing so switches the motor off. So you just do it in increments as @DavecUK suggested.


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

MWJB said:


> you need to lift the lid to adjust setting.


Of course


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> You can't do this, as you need to lift the lid to adjust setting & doing so switches the motor off. So you just do it in increments as @DavecUK suggested.


You can do it by just depressing the red button with the lid raised, it's not so much of an issue with the Niche as it's zero retention so no beans between the burrs when adjusting


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> You can do it by just depressing the red button with the lid raised, it's not so much of an issue with the Niche as it's zero retention so no beans between the burrs when adjusting


Probably not a good recommendation safety-wise, I wouldn't (as a manufacturer) encourage the general public to do this.

It does still bind a little when going finer from say drip grind, it's no different to what you have to do with a hand grinder.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

A 4mm hex bolt can activate the grinder with the lid open. Obviously, keep your fingers away when doing so







.

I've been switching between 20 and 13 lately as I am all over the place with Londinium-R so far. The declining pressure (possibly) throws me off when trying to judge the flow. I might just need to dose up as the pours just seem so fast.

I was usually between 16-18 on Sage DTP and CHC LSOL was at 14 which most people said it was the finest they went. I take L-R handles finer grind better, but I'm still figuring out the ballpark.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Probably not a good recommendation safety-wise, I wouldn't (as a manufacturer) encourage the general public to do this.


I was just pointing out that your statement was not correct and it's not really an issue unless you are stupid enough to put your fingers I. The burrs while running, or perhaps a tie dangling in the burrs.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

PPapa said:


> A 4mm hex bolt can activate the grinder with the lid open. Obviously, keep your fingers away when doing so
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unless you shake those grinds up thoroughly you will get fast pours, but more on the reasons for that soon


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> Unless you shake those grinds up thoroughly you will get fast pours, but more on the reasons for that soon


Shake, stir, distribute (distributor tool), tamp... I think two days is not enough to draw conclusions yet and the shots are still tasty!


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

randyr5 said:


> How tall is the Niche cup??


Please?

The Niche is 86mm and the other is 78mm high, same diameter at the top.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> OK I adjusted finer for a carafe brew, this was one 360 degree turn from the espresso setting and I was back to espresso in 4 or 5 part turns, going 10 small marks on the first and progressively larger amounts on the second and subsequent turns (running the grinder between each one for a second or so).....it took me a 6 or 7 seconds to get back to my espresso setting.
> 
> Why you would require 15 adjustments is beyond me. Did you go more than one whole turn coarse then espresso, say 3 whole turns coarser, because then yeah it might take 10 - 12 smaller turns to get back...


Hi Dave,

I've only gone as coarse as 'back to zero', or to the lid hinge, and I've done it about 4-5 times so far. Typically the dial gets tight as soon as I adjust back, but gets progressively free on each adjustment. It becomes noticeably free below 30.

In terms of stiffness when I get resistance, I would have to put some effort to move it. A bit like doing the calibration.

After it's all free, the movement is completely consistent back to coarse again.

I 'may' have using the switch when I'm doing this....

I will be doing this again on Sunday (planning some cold brew for Monday) so I'll video it.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Marmottefarcie said:


> I have exactly the same experience with my Niche.


How regularly does this happen?

I'm curious to know about the mechanism for it resisting. I haven't opened it up to check, but presumably it's just impacted coffee in the threads?

If so, then does spinning the burrs just vibrate it out? Or is this more prevent unwanted stresses elsewhere?

I need to re-watch Dave's dismantling / cleaning / retention video


----------



## randyr5 (Nov 13, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Please?
> 
> The Niche is 86mm and the other is 78mm high, same diameter at the top.


Thank you


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I had been having a few issues with my shots lately that I put down to beans being a little old but after reading through the other niche impressions thread I gave the grounds a good shake and stir before tamping and thats made a big difference. Shot came through much more evenly but far too slow so I think the watery, uneven shots were due to poor distribution of particle size throughout the puck. I was stirring and tamping it before without success but the shake of the grounds in the cup before stirring seemed to make a big difference.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm wondering... would the Niche benefit from lower speeds (e.g: hand grinding speed)?

Would this be a difficult mod to do? My understanding is that Niche's motor is DC powered, would this make easier? Would there be any improvements in the cup?


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Another nice feature of Niche is that it perfectly matches the height of Cafelat Robot portafilter, so you can grind directly.


----------



## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

Just unpacked my Niche from the box and there is no paperwork or instruction manual, is that correct? Or am I missing one?


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

gfunk03 said:


> Just unpacked my Niche from the box and there is no paperwork or instruction manual, is that correct? Or am I missing one?


You're missing one.

If you drop them an email I imagine they'd put one in the post for you tomorrow.


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## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

rdpx said:


> You're missing one.
> 
> If you drop them an email I imagine they'd put one in the post for you tomorrow.


Cheers for the quick response, I'll drop them an email now


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

gfunk03 said:


> Cheers for the quick response, I'll drop them an email now


If you didn't take all the polystyrene out it may still be in the box.


----------



## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

rdpx said:


> If you didn't take all the polystyrene out it may still be in the box.


Literally just found it in the box lol, cheers!


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## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

How are people transferring the grinds from the grind cup to the portafilter on the Sage DTP? The grind cup doesn't fit inside it.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

gfunk03 said:


> How are people transferring the grinds from the grind cup to the portafilter on the Sage DTP? The grind cup doesn't fit inside it.


I just align the edges, hold it firm, flip it over, gentle shake and a tap, and away I go..

I thought about a funnel, but the rims are almost identical, so I don't find it works far from what was intended, just hold on tighter when you flip it over!


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## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I just align the edges, hold it firm, flip it over, gentle shake and a tap, and away I go..
> 
> I thought about a funnel, but the rims are almost identical, so I don't find it works far from what was intended, just hold on tighter when you flip it over!


Cheers Jonny, I'll give it another go, first attempt resulted in grinds everywhere lol!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

That's what I've been doing as well.

Having 58mm basket is so much better though.


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## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

What grind setting are you guys using for the DTP and what quantity? I always used 17g on my Sage Grinder but at setting 20 on the Niche I just choked it


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

gfunk03 said:


> What grind setting are you guys using for the DTP and what quantity? I always used 17g on my Sage Grinder but at setting 20 on the Niche I just choked it


It's a difficult question to answer as I may have calibrated slightly differently.. so currently I'm on setting 17 for CC mahogany jampit, with 16g dose. But for a light/medium roast I just finished from Adam and Russel I had 17g dose at setting 14.5..

The reason for smaller dose for the darker beans is there just wasn't enough head space in the pf, the puck would come out with an imprint from the shower screen!


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## gfunk03 (Feb 15, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> It's a difficult question to answer as I may have calibrated slightly differently.. so currently I'm on setting 17 for CC mahogany jampit, with 16g dose. But for a light/medium roast I just finished from Adam and Russel I had 17g dose at setting 14.5..
> 
> The reason for smaller dose for the darker beans is there just wasn't enough head space in the pf, the puck would come out with an imprint from the shower screen!


Cheers Jonny, I'll go a bit coarser and see how I go


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> OK I adjusted finer for a carafe brew, this was one 360 degree turn from the espresso setting and I was back to espresso in 4 or 5 part turns, going 10 small marks on the first and progressively larger amounts on the second and subsequent turns (running the grinder between each one for a second or so).....it took me a 6 or 7 seconds to get back to my espresso setting.
> 
> Why you would require 15 adjustments is beyond me. Did you go more than one whole turn coarse then espresso, say 3 whole turns coarser, because then yeah it might take 10 - 12 smaller turns to get back...


Videos as promised.

The Niche was set up on 13 and adjusted to zero +1 full turn for a Puck Puck brew.

The brew requires 38g of coffee. This is about as much as you can put in the Niche at once.

Adjusting back to setting 13 takes around 13 steps... I actually lost count.

It's not a massive faff to be honest, but I am curious about it.

First video is the grinding, second is the adjustment. My camera lady likes to cut videos willy nilly.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

1. Stop turning it back and then forwards, you don't need to do that

2. Move it up to 5 -10 marks first time, then 10-15 marks each time, you won't break it. perhaps the first two adjustments you know take it easy....but after that...go for it.

3. Lid only has to be down for a second (exactly as you did the very first time you lowered the lid).

It's really not that fragile and although I always like to see people be mechanically careful, you can really go for it a little more. Normally I deal with people who have the strength and power of a Silverback Gorilla able to strip stainless steel nuts using only a bar of chocolate....in your case, I think your being just a little too delicate.

oh you can get over 40g in in fact nearer 50 (depending on the coffee)g, but the other way is simply to grind twice if you need a lot more. I figured you had about 40g in there because of the grind time.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Each turn was taken to resistance for what it's worth.

I have the strength of an arthritic dormouse, but I'll take some steroids and get twisting then.


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Just an observation, I do get more fines in the cup than with my Mythos, nothing to worry about though.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Primabarista said:


> Just an observation, I do get more fines in the cup than with my Mythos, nothing to worry about though.


It can often depend on the coffee.. and other factors. Not always what you think with fines.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Had my Niche a good few weeks now and have been using it multiple times a day since then. Thought I'd give it a clean today for the first time and see what was lurking inside...

First thing to say, this grinder is stupidly easy to clean, it took me about 2 minutes. I didn't remove the lower burr this time as I didn't have the right tool handy but I've no doubt it would probably only add a minute to the time to do that and put it all back together.

I took some photos of the grind chamber, underside of the top burr, weight of retained grinds I brushed out and what came out when I gave it a quick spin empty after cleaning as with a lot of grinders this throws out a load more grinds that were missed when brushing out.

Inside grind chamber with top burr removed









Underside of top burr









Mountain of retained grinds I brushed out of chamber...

















Another heap from the empty spin after cleaning...









It's pretty clear to see then that retention is next to nothing which is very impressive indeed. My first real grinder which was a Mazzer Mini electric Type A would probably retain enough for a double shot so this really is impressive.

What's also good is I put it back together and returned to my grind setting, ground some beans (lost 0.52g to be expected first time after a clean) and pulled a lovely shot as the settings were bang on.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The beauty of this is that a lot of that retained coffee doesn't exchange...even though the retention is miniscule in reality less than 2 coffee beans....the amount exchanged is usually less than 1 coffee bean.


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

Ive had mine a month now so decided to give it a clean. Concur with all that above, an absolute doddle and very little retained. Getting the top bur was a little fiddly but i found a method. When I put it all back together I didn't have to move the calibration ring at all. Same as the first time I checked calibration.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MalcolmH said:


> Ive had mine a month now so decided to give it a clean. Concur with all that above, an absolute doddle and very little retained. Getting the top bur was a little fiddly but i found a method. When I put it all back together I didn't have to move the calibration ring at all. Same as the first time I checked calibration.


It needs to be quite a tight fit, so can be tricky to extract. I tend to modify stuff, so mine is even harder to get out


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

GingerBen said:


> View attachment 37556


It might be the lightning or my colourblindness, but it looks like you might benefit from waxing/conditioning it!

I went through the whole set of wooden handles/things the other day with butcher's block wax, it feels like it's easier to keep everything clean from stray coffee grounds.

Saying that, Niche definitely keeps the whole area cleaner, too. I remember having Santos No4 and there'd be grinds all over the kitchen.


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## Phill82 (Jun 18, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> Videos as promised.
> 
> The Niche was set up on 13 and adjusted to zero +1 full turn for a Puck Puck brew.
> 
> ...


Looked to me like you may have stopped the grinder a second or two too early, which would leave a few semi ground particles in the burrs and cause the adjustment issue you have. As one of DaveCs videos said, wait until you can no longer see anything coming from the shoot before turning it off (personally I wait a second or two after that even, just to be sure), not just once the sound changes or you can no longer see beans in the chamber. If that's what you already do then I apologise! Just thought when your hand reached for the switch at the end of the first video that it seemed a bit soon.

Phill


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Phill82 said:


> Looked to me like you may have stopped the grinder a second or two too early, which would leave a few semi ground particles in the burrs and cause the adjustment issue you have. As one of DaveCs videos said, wait until you can no longer see anything coming from the shoot before turning it off (personally I wait a second or two after that even, just to be sure), not just once the sound changes or you can no longer see beans in the chamber. If that's what you already do then I apologise! Just thought when your hand reached for the switch at the end of the first video that it seemed a bit soon.
> 
> Phill


I did say that and it's true..but a it's worth mentioning that I always dose about 0.04g over because after about 30 minutes a sneaky 0.05 ish grams drops out when your not looking....of course it's usually into the grind cup, as it's back on the base by then...so in this case you're probably on the money.


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Phill82 said:


> Looked to me like you may have stopped the grinder a second or two too early, which would leave a few semi ground particles in the burrs and cause the adjustment issue you have. As one of DaveCs videos said, wait until you can no longer see anything coming from the shoot before turning it off (personally I wait a second or two after that even, just to be sure), not just once the sound changes or you can no longer see beans in the chamber. If that's what you already do then I apologise! Just thought when your hand reached for the switch at the end of the first video that it seemed a bit soon.
> 
> Phill


This is good advice, grinds keep coming out for a good few seconds after the beans have disappeared and the grinder sounds like nothing is being ground anymore. If you are going finer then these last few seconds will be the small particles coming through the last bit of the burrs so that is exactly the place you wouldn't want grinds if you are making adjustments to the grind setting.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Phill82 said:


> Looked to me like you may have stopped the grinder a second or two too early, which would leave a few semi ground particles in the burrs and cause the adjustment issue you have. As one of DaveCs videos said, wait until you can no longer see anything coming from the shoot before turning it off (personally I wait a second or two after that even, just to be sure), not just once the sound changes or you can no longer see beans in the chamber. If that's what you already do then I apologise! Just thought when your hand reached for the switch at the end of the first video that it seemed a bit soon.
> 
> Phill


It's good... but it's not right! As Roy Walker would say.

I always run the grinder for quite some time after, and also tap the chute. I especially do this for coarse grinds as I don't want it in the next espresso.

I might just have it apart to understand it a bit better.

What is the resistance from? Grinds in the threads, or elsewhere?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

richwade80 said:


> What is the resistance from? Grinds in the threads, or elsewhere?


Larger particles will actually lodge between the burrs & will stay there until you whizz the motor again.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

I find that a gentle drop of the lid once or twice always seems to release some grounds, whether straight after grinding or after a period of no use.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> It needs to be quite a tight fit, so can be tricky to extract. I tend to modify stuff, so mine is even harder to get out


@DavecUK Since I have the same urge even when I know it is sort of ridiculous I am very curious to what you have modified.



(There is now a BFCM sale on with DLC-coated Mazzer conical burrs in 63, 71 and 83mm&#8230; only good for a minimum of 3000kg or about 230 years with my usage








I wanted this already when I ordered it!

Would the bigger burrs even fit I wonder? I don't ever use super bright beans, so I'm not worried about the motor. Oeh even thinking about it is fun







)
​-I know now I absolutely not needed this- Complete folly. Still...​
​


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Only the 63mm burrs will fit, but why would you want to change them? The existing burrs by your usage will last you a lifetime.

I've modified stuff for my experiments not really for sharing yet.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Thanks for the info - as to why I would want to change the burrs: it was something I thought about when I ordered (sort of got carried away I guess). Even posted about it in the other thread. I also wanted the Zero in black back then and paid extra to get that when it became an option after I already had ordered.

Now that I am using the Niche I realize coated burrs are most probably totally unnecessary (just like the black exterior does nothing for the retention). But when I got an email with some Black Friday, Cyber Monday deals I wondered - plus tweaking a bit amuses me.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tohenk2 said:


> Thanks for the info - as to why I would want to change the burrs: it was something I thought about when I ordered (sort of got carried away I guess). Even posted about it in the other thread. I also wanted the Zero in black back then and paid extra to get that when it became an option after I already had ordered.
> 
> Now that I am using the Niche I realize coated burrs are most probably totally unnecessary (just like the black exterior does nothing for the retention). But when I got an email with some Black Friday, Cyber Monday deals I wondered - plus tweaking a bit amuses me.


The coating on burrs reduces the friction and makes it easier for motors to turn them, they are of course harder and will last longer...BUT the Niche motor has no trouble turning the burrs that are in there and the grind speed doesn't wobble about as in a few grinders I have seen. I often tested with the full almost 50g that the top Niche hopper could hold and did grind after grind consecutively (I'm talking 8 back to back grinds here)...not that I'm suggesting anyone should...I was simply trying to break it. Well not to definitely break it but to abuse it way beyond the point an end user could (although their inventiveness never ceases to amaze me).

Will you get a better grind with the coated burrs...possibly, will you be able to tell the difference, almost certainly not. Will the burrs last longer....you probably won't be around to care....if you're young, the grinder may have become a kind of triggers broom over the 80 years you own it. If you wanna buy the 63mm Mazzer coated burrs go ahead, but it's a terrible use of your hard earned euro. You could buy yourself something nice with it. I know companies like Compak et al did a lot of marketing around coatings and I looked into a few types, there is one coating they haven't started using yet which is way better than what's on the market. It's a PVD coating that's been available for years, but the grinder manufacturers simply have not worked they way up to it yet....they will and they will heavily market it. I really think these coatings can only make a difference in high commercial usage, where the burrs run longer and run *cooler*, for domestic use...it's hard to justify.

The only other consideration is the PVD coating processes means the burrs must be prepped before coating and this does help the finish and they need less "running in" and this may be a reason some users notice a more significant difference. I have experienced this myself, but after 5 or 8 Kg through that difference seems to vanish (to my tastes anyway). If the question were different, would I rather have cheaper Italmill burrs with PVD coating...yeah, cos they not as hard as the Mazzer Kony 63mm burr in the first place and not as well cut/finished, so with Italmill made 63mm Mazzer knock offs, I would definitely have everything I could to make them as good as they can be....which still isn't as good as the genuine burr!

Many companies get their burrs made by Italmill (Mazzer don't) and so coatings on those burrs might be a great idea. The difference is an Italmill clone will do perhaps 300 to 400g and a Mazzer original is good for 750Kg+ for the hardened steel burrs, because there is hardened steel and hardened steel.

All these processes are not new and I learned a lot about metals when I left school and started precision engineering. I had to leave it because I was allergic to the cutting oils used). If you want to know about many of the different coatings and read up on them..the Link below is useful. I suspect Titanium Carbo-Nitride will soon make an appearance on burrs or TiAIN as manufacturers race to create a difference and take your money. TiN was good because gold just looks so ooohhh doesn't it. Always remember, we are grinding coffee...not ballbearings!

https://acscoating.com/coating-specs/


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## Gatty (Dec 26, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I've modified stuff for my experiments not really for sharing yet.


Intriguing! Excited to hear more when the time comes!


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## lucas (Nov 14, 2018)

I kinda ordered one of these grinders, just too much hype about them!

I've seen in another forum people with issues with slippage on the threads no one here experienced that?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

lucas said:


> I kinda ordered one of these grinders, just too much hype about them!
> 
> I've seen in another forum people with issues with slippage on the threads no one here experienced that?


Interesting you say that, as my shots are running slightly faster than usual, but it could be due to coffee ageing. I'll keep and eye and will report back.

Ps: really really like the Niche. Absolutely the best grinder in terms of value for money vs quality, imho, for the home market.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lucas said:


> I kinda ordered one of these grinders, just too much hype about them!
> 
> I've seen in another forum people with issues with slippage on the threads no one here experienced that?


Affected about 7 grinders I understand, the upper burr carrier catching in the slide (the issue has been identified and I understand a new component will be sent to those people and will take someone less than 3-4 minutes to fit, no skillz required). If the grinder doesn't do it, it's not going to start doing it..If someone gets this they should contact Niche, *it was identified early on in production/shipping, so I doubt many got out into the field* as it was specifically checked for after the problem became apparent. That's all I want to say on it, if you want to know more, wait for Niche to say more.

I was going to add an experience of my own to the list of experiences. I use a Vesuvius pressure profile machine, with a 18g VST basket (naked portafilter) and the trick with the Vesuvius is to have the profile end just as you have extracted the right weight of coffee. Those with a Vesuvius will understand exactly what I mean...You can of course end the shot any time the right weight has been achieved, but the all the pressure profile stages may not be complete. It's quite an achievement with a 43 second profile to actually hit the same weight of extraction to within 0.5g every time at the exact end of the profile. With the same coffee and 18g in the basket + or - 0.3g (as sometimes a single bean takes you over) I have just completed my 15th double shot over 2 days where the extraction hit pretty much the 36g I was aiming for exactly as the profile ends. This shows a consistency beyond just the weight of coffee in/out, but of grind as well. I do a minimum prep and I did try no prep without major differences.

So quite impressed with that as the Vesuvius applies a consistent PID pressure controlled profile every time and will increase the pressure if the puck fractures or is more permeable, giving much more liquid per unit time! The reason I mention it is because it is quite unusual as many Vesuvius owners would find, often you would need to end a shot before the profile finishes to stay within target weight with other grinders I have used.


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Affected about 7 grinders I understand, the upper burr carrier catching in the slide (the issue has been identified and I understand a new component will be sent to those people and will take someone less than 3-4 minutes to fit, no skillz required). If the grinder doesn't do it, it's not going to start doing it..If someone gets this they should contact Niche, *it was identified early on in production/shipping, so I doubt many got out into the field* as it was specifically checked for after the problem became apparent. That's all I want to say on it, if you want to know more, wait for Niche to say more.


A little disappointing this information had not been released by Niche, I would have thought a level of transparency and informing their supporters that this issue had been identified and was being quickly resolved would have been a really good positive piece of news from a proactive supplier, as well as building confidence in the brand.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Wow you do know it was only 7 grinders!! what do you expect a miracle on a new product. It was 7^


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

Jony said:


> Wow you do know it was only 7 grinders!! what do you expect a miracle on a new product. It was 7^


Yes & No ....Isn't that a significant achievement by Martin and his team to release such a great new innovative product, that is getting sensational positive reviews, with such few problems on release...... nothing but my admiration !

It is also positive that they identified a potential problem early on, resolved it .....but unfortunately a few got into the hands of customers .....but these customers have discussed the problem on other forums for a couple of weeks now.

Rather than letting a potentially negative perception linger in the minds of potential purchasers for a couple of weeks, in my opinion it would have been so easy to have come out and said "yes, we know about this, have a fix, think we have caught most, but if you unfortunately got one that slipped through we have the solution"

This would leave the impression "these guy's have their S$%t together" ......before DavecUK's post earlier today, who knew that this wasn't going to be a systemic problem that all owners were going to have down the line.

It is the same issue with the Grind Cup delay, a simple post giving a quick update as to the current status of the cups would help those waiting..... the supplier has shipped them, ......they are stuck in customs, .......the boat sunk ..... just something.

I am certain everyone is very supportive, but would just love a little communication.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

and the clouds in the sky really are made of marshmallow........


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Downunder55 said:


> Yes & No ....Isn't that a significant achievement by Martin and his team to release such a great new innovative product, that is getting sensational positive reviews, with such few problems on release...... nothing but my admiration !
> 
> It is also positive that they identified a potential problem early on, resolved it .....but unfortunately a few got into the hands of customers .....but these customers have discussed the problem on other forums for a couple of weeks now.
> 
> ...


I agree with this thought out feedback, it helps to stop the debacle and potential reputattional damage to an otherwise great product.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

With 1001 things to do, another to add to the list is for them to become very slick marketeers. This would perhaps keep more people happy...

I sort of like how they have really worked on reliability, delivery and quality of a new product to market. When they have more time, I am sure they will work on comms.

I could think of other manufacturers who did fantastic on marketing but not so good on quality or reliability.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I could think of other manufacturers who did fantastic on marketing but not so good on quality or reliability.


Does the brand name has seven letters, the first, second and last letters of the alphabet, three vowels, which happen to be all the same?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

No that was an album by Santana I think...

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> No that was an album by Santana I think...
> 
> ___
> 
> Eat, drink and be merry


Nope. That has X in it, not Z.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Does the brand name has seven letters, the first, second and last letters of the alphabet, three vowels, which happen to be all the same?


There coud be one like that, but I was thinking a little more wide ranging, not just grinders.


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> With 1001 things to do, another to add to the list is for them to become very slick marketeers. This would perhaps keep more people happy...
> 
> I sort of like how they have really worked on reliability, delivery and quality of a new product to market. When they have more time, I am sure they will work on comms.


Dave, it really doesn't need to be anything sophisticated or slick, just a quick post in this or one of the other threads on the Niche, it would take a few minutes at most.

It would also likely save the similar questions and requests they respond to in the Indiegogo comments section.

I am intending this to be nothing but constructive feedback, as I am so very impressed with the journey.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Downunder55 said:


> I am intending this to be nothing but constructive feedback, as I am so very impressed with the journey.


I know and re read my post carefully, I'm not disagreeing with you. I am sure they will improve as they get breathing space.

Equally be wary of holding them to an imagined standard most manufacturers don't actually achieve. There are many problems with products I know for a fact you never hear about.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Downunder55 said:


> Yes & No ....Isn't that a significant achievement by Martin and his team to release such a great new innovative product, that is getting sensational positive reviews, with such few problems on release...... nothing but my admiration !
> 
> It is also positive that they identified a potential problem early on, resolved it .....but unfortunately a few got into the hands of customers .....but these customers have discussed the problem on other forums for a couple of weeks now.
> 
> ...


As a customer in waiting I agree with this


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I was going to add an experience of my own to the list of experiences. I use a Vesuvius pressure profile machine, with a 18g VST basket (naked portafilter) and the trick with the Vesuvius is to have the profile end just as you have extracted the right weight of coffee. Those with a Vesuvius will understand exactly what I mean...You can of course end the shot any time the right weight has been achieved, but the all the pressure profile stages may not be complete. It's quite an achievement with a 43 second profile to actually hit the same weight of extraction to within 0.5g every time at the exact end of the profile. With the same coffee and 18g in the basket + or - 0.3g (as sometimes a single bean takes you over) I have just completed my 15th double shot over 2 days where the extraction hit pretty much the 36g I was aiming for exactly as the profile ends. This shows a consistency beyond just the weight of coffee in/out, but of grind as well. I do a minimum prep and I did try no prep without major differences.
> 
> So quite impressed with that as the Vesuvius applies a consistent PID pressure controlled profile every time and will increase the pressure if the puck fractures or is more permeable, giving much more liquid per unit time! The reason I mention it is because it is quite unusual as many Vesuvius owners would find, often you would need to end a shot before the profile finishes to stay within target weight with other grinders I have used.


I never got the repetition accuracy I now have with the Niche and Vesuvius. Not with any machine combination I have previously owned.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

Some initial thoughts:

In the cup, it's very good. It's in a different location to the HG-1 right now, so I can't head-to-head them, but I think the results would be very comparable.

Retention is fairly negligible, as promised - it does seem to end up with a bit that's stuck in it though, that falls out some time after you've finished up, no matter how much you try to encourage it out ahead of time. I've taken to storing the cup away from the grinder so that I don't have to brush it out each time.

I don't really like the cup. The LWW solution is better executed.

Grinds seem to stick to the inside surface more, you can't brush them out into the portafilter, and, if you shake to distribute, the internal ridge collects grinds which refuse to budge no matter how you tap it.

On shaking - a blind basket makes a perfect lid. I'm experimenting with a bit of tape to stop grounds collecting in the ridge.


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## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

Aidy said:


> In the cup, it's very good. It's in a different location to the HG-1 right now, so I can't head-to-head them, but I think the results would be very comparable.


I agree with this. I used them side by side on the bench for a couple of weeks. The taste was pretty close, which is interesting since the HG-1 is seasoned where as the Niche was brand new.

The way the pours progressed for each grinder on the same (pump) machine differed. HG-1 pours held the same g/sec output throughout the extraction. The Niche g/sec output starts slow and picks up speed approaching the final beverage weight. Not sure if this will settle down over time.. just something I've noticed. I'd be curious to see your experience.



Aidy said:


> Retention is fairly negligible, as promised - it does seem to end up with a bit that's stuck in it though, that falls out some time after you've finished up, no matter how much you try to encourage it out ahead of time. I've taken to storing the cup away from the grinder so that I don't have to brush it out each time..


This stopped happening to me after a little while.

As DaveC mentions, the less you try to persuade the grinder to give up retained coffee, the lower the retention. It took a fair bit of willpower to not sweep and bang after each grind, as it is kind of ingrained in my mind coming from the HG-1, but I was better off for it.



Aidy said:


> I don't really like the cup. The LWW solution is better executed.
> 
> Grinds seem to stick to the inside surface more, you can't brush them out into the portafilter, and, if you shake to distribute, the internal ridge collects grinds which refuse to budge no matter how you tap it.
> 
> .


I felt a similar way about the cup. When I compared it to the LWW blind tumbler I found transferring the grounds to the portafilter a lot easier with the tumbler. Less stray grounds left over, less mess etc.

Since my last video I've been stirring the grounds in the Niche cup (using a mini cocktail whisk) and pouring it into the portafilter with a funnel on top of the basket (both 49mm and 58mm).

In addition to mixing the coffee (which improves the extraction) the stirring of the grounds picks up a lot of the stray grounds that can cling stubbornly to the walls of the cup.

If I get a chance I'll film the new workflow with the Profitec instead of Cremina.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

suvartet said:


> I felt a similar way about the cup. When I compared it to the LWW blind tumbler I found transferring the grounds to the portafilter a lot easier with the tumbler. Less stray grounds left over, less mess etc.
> 
> Since my last video I've been stirring the grounds in the Niche cup (using a mini cocktail whisk) and pouring it into the portafilter with a funnel on top of the basket (both 49mm and 58mm).
> 
> ...


This is what I do. 18g beans into cup, pour into grinder and cup goes underneath then flick the switch. Use a kebab stick to mix grounds in cup, put collar on portafilter and pour grinds in. Shake the portafilter a bit to create a level bed then tap on worktop to settle. Tamp and go. Takes all of 1 minute start to finish and I get very repeatable and consistent pours. Beading starts from the outside and fills in uniformly to create a nice single stream that doesn't break throughout the pour.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

I've found just "swrling" the cup enough to mix/distribute and capture the grinds on the side. I honestly think a lot of people are overthiking it after moving from grinders with much much more retention. In comparision the niche is a reltively straightforward workflow.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

I also gave up inverting the cup on the portafilter, and instead tip into portafilter with dosing funnel in place and tap cup on worksurface to release last few grinds straight into funnel, then stir with funnel still in place using a chopstick (can stir fairly vigorously without spillage). Haven't had any channelling or spritzing with bottomless pf and also getting consistent shot times.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

ATZ said:


> I've found just "swrling" the cup enough to mix/distribute and capture the grinds on the side. I honestly think a lot of people are overthiking it after moving from grinders with much much more retention. In comparision the niche is a reltively straightforward workflow.


I do think it takes less coaxing to get a even extraction from the Niche than the HG-1. Perhaps my shot prep is just more refined and habitual, but it feels like so longs as I do *something* to redistribute, I get a nice even extraction.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Inglorious Alf said:


> I also gave up inverting the cup on the portafilter, and instead tip into portafilter with dosing funnel in place and tap cup on worksurface to release last few grinds straight into funnel, then stir with funnel still in place using a chopstick (can stir fairly vigorously without spillage). Haven't had any channelling or spritzing with bottomless pf and also getting consistent shot times.


Can i ask where you got your dosing funnel from?


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

cold war kid said:


> Can i ask where you got your dosing funnel from?


eBay, think it was this one https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F172380169236

I got it originally as I used to single does into my Vario bin and then tip into hopper, then tip from bin into pf. Basically exactly the same workflow as with the Niche!


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Don't forget @Norvin on this very forum does them as well, includes a small donation to this forum as well I believe.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D36715&share_tid=36715&share_fid=6813&share_type=t


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

********** said:


> Don't forget @Norvin on this very forum does them as well, includes a small donation to this forum as well I believe.
> 
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D36715&share_tid=36715&share_fid=6813&share_type=t


And they are better if you intend to stir the grinds once deposited into the portafilter as the sides are deeper making it easy to stir.


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Aidy said:


> I don't really like the cup. The LWW solution is better executed.
> 
> Grinds seem to stick to the inside surface more, you can't brush them out into the portafilter, and, if you shake to distribute, the internal ridge collects grinds which refuse to budge no matter how you tap it.


RDT solves that. That's what I do when too much static/sticky coffee.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

Viernes said:


> RDT solves that. That's what I do when too much static/sticky coffee.


The general advice for these has been to not RDT. That kinda feels like a strange solution too, when it's a problem with it sticking in the cup, but not in the grinder.

I don't think it's particularly a static problem, just that the interior of the cup is a comparatively rough surface, so collects grinds.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

ATZ said:


> I've found just "swrling" the cup enough to mix/distribute and capture the grinds on the side. I honestly think a lot of people are overthiking it after moving from grinders with much much more retention. In comparision the niche is a reltively straightforward workflow.


I gave swirling a go, and got a bit of a lop-sided pour. Stirring or shaking both seem to get better results.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Aidy said:


> The general advice for these has been to not RDT. That kinda feels like a strange solution too, when it's a problem with it sticking in the cup, but not in the grinder.
> 
> I don't think it's particularly a static problem, just that the interior of the cup is a comparatively rough surface, so collects grinds.


I agree it's not static, but more a slight cling/stickiness

One thing I do from time to time...one of my little hacks if you like...is to keep a Microfibre cloth handy for the cup and every so often just wipe out the interior when I start to see some sticking (I usually do mine weekly, but I don't drink very oily beans). This seems to ensure I don't really get grounds sticking. I actually wash it out once every 2-3 weeks and strangely enough when I do I notice it is slightly "stickier" than usual for a day or so until I dry microfibre wipe it out...not 100% sure, but think I have observed this more than one time. Thhis makes me suspect a little of what you like is a good thing, but not soo much (coffee oils).


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Thhis makes me suspect a little of what you like is a good thing, but not soo much (coffee oils).


I think there's some merit to that, I'd been wiping out the remnants with a paper towel (which presumably absorbs all the oils). I've not bothered for the past few shots, and it seems a bit less clingy for it.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I was a bit bored earlier and read a thread on here about single dosing and the issues associated with it and I thought I would try something with the Niche. I tend to get a fair bit of chaff in the grind cup which the other thread suggested was due to single dosing and the beans not being properly ground (oversimplified but for the point of this thats fine). What I did was dose my 18g into the Niche and flicked the switch until the beans got to the level of the bottom of the hopper. I then put a weight on top of the remaining beans and turned it back on to finish. There seemed very little chaff in the cup afterwards and the coffee seemed a lot tastier than before. I might be imagining that last bit but I don't think I am. I wonder how long it will be before some clever person mods these to improve the bean delivery into the burrs?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

mctrials23 said:


> I was a bit bored earlier and read a thread on here about single dosing and the issues associated with it and I thought I would try something with the Niche. I tend to get a fair bit of chaff in the grind cup which the other thread suggested was due to single dosing and the beans not being properly ground (oversimplified but for the point of this thats fine). What I did was dose my 18g into the Niche and flicked the switch until the beans got to the level of the bottom of the hopper. I then put a weight on top of the remaining beans and turned it back on to finish. There seemed very little chaff in the cup afterwards and the coffee seemed a lot tastier than before. I might be imagining that last bit but I don't think I am. I wonder how long it will be before some clever person mods these to improve the bean delivery into the burrs?


Chaff is in the bean, the grinder doesn't make chaff. The finer you grind the less you will see. But if you grind 18.0g out from 18.2g in, I'm not sure how you can influence the total amount of chaff in the dose?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Chaff is in the bean, the grinder doesn't make chaff. The finer you grind the less you will see. But if you grind 18.0g out from 18.2g in, I'm not sure how you can influence the total amount of chaff in the dose?


That depends. If the visible chaff is a product of uneven grinding and therefore larger particles making it through the burrs then seeing less of it for the same setting on a grinder is probably a good thing. You can't simply reduce the grind size until you see no visible chaff because the grind size will just choke up the machine.

Its one of the well known issues with single dosing. You get a wider particle distribution than if you have a weight of beans in a hopper. I think Dave wrote a post in the thread I mentioned that explained the issues with single dosing in a conical grinder and the Niche eliminates all of them bar the issue with pop-corning and a lack of weight on the beans being ground.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> That depends. If the visible chaff is a product of uneven grinding and therefore larger particles making it through the burrs then seeing less of it for the same setting on a grinder is probably a good thing. You can't simply reduce the grind size until you see no visible chaff because the grind size will just choke up the machine.
> 
> Its one of the well known issues with single dosing. You get a wider particle distribution than if you have a weight of beans in a hopper. I think Dave wrote a post in the thread I mentioned that explained the issues with single dosing in a conical grinder and the Niche eliminates all of them bar the issue with pop-corning and a lack of weight on the beans being ground.


I am with MWJB on this, it's an interesting idea you have but it's not right.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I am with MWJB on this, it's an interesting idea you have but it's not right.


Can you give me a brief explanation please if you have a minute.

I understand that the chaff isn't an issue per-se, its simply an easy to see consequence of a wider particle distribution than you might want. I'm sure the taste difference is entirely down to the actual coffee particle sizes but those are harder to see with the naked eye. Are you also saying that you don't think that something designed to add weight and remove volume in the hopper as beans are ground would improve grind quality?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Visible chaff is a product of coarser grinding (there are no Niche's with hoppers, we can't compare wider/narrower distribution without losing the single dose facility, plus there is almost no data on what a narrow/wide distribution is). I don't know why reducing visible chaff would be a target, because the invisible chaff would still be there.

You might not be able to go fine enough to make your grind as pretty as you want, but you may have room to grind a little finer?

A few folk have found no apparent difference in single dosing vs hopper fed.

As your weight drops to the height of the bolt in the lower burr, there's still room for a few g of coffee beans with no weight on them.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Can you give me a brief explanation please if you have a minute.
> 
> I understand that the chaff isn't an issue per-se, its simply an easy to see consequence of a wider particle distribution than you might want. I'm sure the taste difference is entirely down to the actual coffee particle sizes but those are harder to see with the naked eye. Are you also saying that you don't think that something designed to add weight and remove volume in the hopper as beans are ground would improve grind quality?


Again I completely agree with Mark (bromance starting here).

I think you might be overthinking a product designed to be as simple and good as it can be.....there are a few little hacks, but nothing major that will make a difference. Get yourself a tube of Pringles, eat em and throw the lid on the beans in the Niche before grinding. You will feel better as you won't get the odd tiny shard of bean jumping out onto the scale and the beans will grind a tiny bit faster, cos they popcorn and hit the lid. At the speed it grinds at (burr speed) though putting a weight onto the beans (and bolt position), will be like trying to keep the titanic alfoat by baling it out with an espresso cup..

It's good produces a good grinds allows terrific consistency in your espresso making. If you don't like chaff, go for a different bean, or a roaster who uses the type of roaster that clears chaff better, or has a destoner that also helps to remove chaff.* I don't like to leave chaff on coffee if I can avoid it, because chaff doesn't contribute to taste in a good way*. Unless it rains heavy, I always go through an extra chaff removal step with my beans. In fact I am thinking of making a small system for chaff removal, where I can toss a Kg of beans in and have the chaff easily removed.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Visible chaff is a product of coarser grinding (there are no Niche's with hoppers, we can't compare wider/narrower distribution without losing the single dose facility, plus there is almost no data on what a narrow/wide distribution is). I don't know why reducing visible chaff would be a target, because the invisible chaff would still be there.


If you keep the grind setting and do something that reduces the amount of visible chaff then I would assume you have narrowed the particle distribution range.



MWJB said:


> You might not be able to go fine enough to make your grind as pretty as you want, but you may have room to grind a little finer?


I don't think I was clear. I don't care if the grinds look like crap if they create beautiful coffee. This is simply from my personal observations and reading other peoples observations.



MWJB said:


> A few folk have found no apparent difference in single dosing vs hopper fed.


Most people with good grinders seem to say the exact opposite. That the quality of shot they get from a full hopper of beans is superior to single dosing.



MWJB said:


> As your weight drops to the height of the bolt in the lower burr, there's still room for a few g of coffee beans with no weight on them.


This is entirely true but if you can mitigate the single dosing issues of having no weights on the bean for 14g out of 18 instead of 9g that will make quite a difference I would think. Its not about making it perfect, I'm just trying to make it a little better. There is a huge chance I am talking utter rubbish but I am going to do a bit more testing on this idea.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Most people with good grinders seem to say the exact opposite. That the quality of shot they get from a full hopper of beans is superior to single dosing.
> 
> This is entirely true but if you can mitigate the single dosing issues of having no weights on the bean for 14g out of 18 instead of 9g that will make quite a different I would think. Its not about making it perfect, I'm just trying to make it a little better. There is a huge chance I am talking utter rubbish but I am going to do a bit more testing on this idea.


Most people have grinders that spin the burrs at 1500 RPM and not 330 RPM

That said, it's always good to experiment and be sure to let us know how you get on.....things that might seem "rubbish" (as you put it) can sometimes be next years great discovery.....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

mctrials23 said:


> If you keep the grind setting and do something that reduces the amount of visible chaff then I would assume you have narrowed the particle distribution range.


Narrowing the particle distribution range dovetails with, but is a little separate going coarser & finer. Detecting coarser & finer in certain degrees is viable with a known grinder. Detailing the 'particle distribution' is not something you can do easily, certainly not by eye.

Experiment, do some tests, maybe start a thread about it. Get some feedback on how these tests may work, what they will achieve. It would be an awful shame if you dedicated real time to a red herring.

I'll be first in line to congratulate you, should you turn up a significant finding.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Cheers guys, I don't think this is going to consume my life but I will do a bit of testing and if you don't hear from me you will know its been a big failure!

I'm not expecting miracles but I do tend to struggle to get much in the way of distinct "notes" out of my espresso shots so if I can improve that at all I will be happy.


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

Yesterday, I started Niche, went to other room, and went back.

The grind cup was still on my scale, all ground coffee was sitting on the wood part of my Niche







It looked really nice. I was too shocked to make a photo, maybe next time.

Lesson learned: focus on what you are doing even if kids are screaming in the living room.

Ps.

Coffee was OK


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I have actually done the same thing.....shhh


----------



## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

pj.walczak said:


> Yesterday day, I started Niche, went to other room, and went back.
> 
> The grind cup was still on my scale, all ground coffee was sitting on the wood part of my Niche
> 
> ...


Haven't done it with a full dose yet, but definitely realised half way through grinding that the cup was still on the scales... What can I say, it was too early and I hadn't had a coffee yet!


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I have actually done the same thing.....shhh


Me too, early in my Niche experience. Not any more...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob666 said:


> Me too, early in my Niche experience. Not any more...


Same here... After making my own, was making a flat white for my sister... Only to find that the Niche was grinding away but the cup was right next to me, empty... A nice mound formed on the wooden tray. Detached it, coffee carefully put into the PF, quick stir, tamp, pull. My sister loved it.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Has anyone found that their calibration point moved quite a bit after running in the burrs? I'd ballpark that as 5 or so marks. It's either that or clumsy me moved the dial by who knows how much! I was on 16-18 with Sage and I'm more at 10-12 with L-R.

I am now toying with the idea of a flat single doser as I could not move back to an on demand grinder with such low usage pattern. The issue is... there's not many sensible options (hence no R120!).


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> Has anyone found that their calibration point moved quite a bit after running in the burrs? I'd ballpark that as 5 or so marks. It's either that or clumsy me moved the dial by who knows how much! I was on 16-18 with Sage and I'm more at 10-12 with L-R.
> 
> I am now toying with the idea of a flat single doser as I could not move back to an on demand grinder with such low usage pattern. The issue is... there's not many sensible options (hence no R120!).


Could it just be the LR taking a finer grind than the dtp?


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## lucas (Nov 14, 2018)

PPapa said:


> Has anyone found that their calibration point moved quite a bit after running in the burrs? I'd ballpark that as 5 or so marks. It's either that or clumsy me moved the dial by who knows how much! I was on 16-18 with Sage and I'm more at 10-12 with L-R.
> 
> I am now toying with the idea of a flat single doser as I could not move back to an on demand grinder with such low usage pattern. The issue is... there's not many sensible options (hence no R120!).


Yes, it's been reported before.... according to some it only affected 7 grinders so far and there is some kind of fix, maybe better you contact niche coffee to see what they have to say.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lucas said:


> Yes, it's been reported before.... according to some it only affected 7 grinders so far and there is some kind of fix, maybe better you contact niche coffee to see what they have to say.


I think you have completely misunderstood him. He is having to use a finer grind on a different machine.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

pj.walczak said:


> Yesterday, I started Niche, went to other room, and went back.
> 
> The grind cup was still on my scale, all ground coffee was sitting on the wood part of my Niche
> 
> ...


Not done it with the Niche yet, but have done with an EK.. And that makes way more mess..


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

ashcroc said:


> Could it just be the LR taking a finer grind than the dtp?


Nah, I can certainly move the grind setting past the calibration point whereas before it was calibrated to be tight at the exact mark. It could well be that LR takes a finer grind. I rarely have the same bean and didn't bother with a side by side testing.

I just checked and it's off by 3 clicks. My only assumption is that the edges might rub off a fair bit?


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## kusmi (Jul 6, 2018)

pj.walczak said:


> Yesterday, I started Niche, went to other room, and went back.
> 
> The grind cup was still on my scale, all ground coffee was sitting on the wood part of my Niche
> 
> ...


As I do single dosing different coffee beans all the time, I often forget to dial-in the correct grind setting for that specific bean... and boom 18 grams wasted









But I like the possibility to change beans from one pull to the other. Especially in the evening when my happy wife likes a decaf cappuccino.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It arrived at 11am. Rather cold so stood it close to a radiator for an hour. Somehow I expected it to be smallish but in real terms it's not far of the size of a mazer mini with it's hopper off. Footprint is smaller. Looks ok next to my Profitec too. Generally feels and looks a quality item. It's black. The grinds cup is way way thicker than the type usually used on hand grinders. Very well polished too on the outside. It is very quiet even when grinding. It also uses what looks to be a proper toggle switch. That style of switch usually has a very high cycle life.

Checked the calibration and with my grip the mark fell a couple of setting marks short but left as is. Mine doesn't have the notched calibration ring, it's smooth. I don't think I would have used that ring to adjust it anyway.

So set it to mid espresso range on the dial and loaded 14g of beans and flicked the switch. 13.2g came out so added couple of beans to top that up. Finished with 14.2g. More clumping than my now well seasoned mazzer mini but not problematic. Few balls that broke up easily when the canister was shook about. Pulled the shot my usual way via a 30sec button. 40ml came out, not far of my usual 33 to 35 target. Drank it anyway. From the taste I would say I could use less coffee than via the mazzer suggesting it's giving higher extraction rates. Hard to comment on any taste changes due to the strength. I'd be inclined to say maybe at the moment. I know that 40 out is too far that way using the mazzer but I'd normally detect a background taste of water.

Next comes a setting adjustment. I'm hoping for a big improvement over the mazzer on that aspect. Also hopefully a reduction in retention.

I did read the manual. Usually as I use a rather oily bean when weighing in I soak burrs in a puly cafe back flush solution when I clean them. The manual states don't use water to clean them so assume they are not stainless.

Also noted that the motor does have a thermal cut out. Not a problem it should have really but rather reassuring if i ever get carried away using it. It's very preferable to a burnt out motor. I'd guess though that like others the casing would get rather warm before it cuts out.

John

-


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> I did read the manual. Usually as I use a rather oily bean when weighing in I soak burrs in a puly cafe back flush solution when I clean them. The manual states don't use water to clean them so assume they are not stainless.
> 
> Also noted that the motor does have a thermal cut out. Not a problem it should have really but rather reassuring if i ever get carried away using it. It's very preferable to a burnt out motor. I'd guess though that like others the casing would get rather warm before it cuts out.
> 
> ...


John, just to clear up a few factual points for you.

1. The Mazzer burrs are hardened steel, not stainless. It has to be this way because of the low carbon content you cannot harden stainless steel and burrs made of stainless steel would wear too quickly. All steel grinder burrs will be the same to a greater or lesser degree depending on quality. Your existing Mazzer has hardened non stainless steel burrs. Perhaps there might be some cheapie grinders (chinese) that use a stainless burr...dunno. If you want to clean burrs of oils, it might be best to use a bit of Isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush.

2. The grinder has a self resetting thermal cut out, designed to cut in before the motor suffers damage. The information is actually on page 2 of my review ( para 7 or 8 I think), I would recommend you read it, it will answer a lot of your questions.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> John, just to clear up a few factual points for you.
> 
> 1. The Mazzer burrs are hardened steel, not stainless. It has to be this way because of the low carbon content you cannot harden stainless steel and burrs made of stainless steel would wear too quickly. All steel grinder burrs will be the same to a greater or lesser degree depending on quality. Your existing Mazzer has hardened non stainless steel burrs. Perhaps there might be some cheapie grinders (chinese) that use a stainless burr...dunno. If you want to clean burrs of oils, it might be best to use a bit of Isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush.
> 
> 2. The grinder has a self resetting thermal cut out, designed to cut in before the motor suffers damage. The information is actually on page 2 of my review ( para 7 or 8 I think), I would recommend you read it, it will answer a lot of your questions.


A quote from my post



> I did read the manual


Another



> does have a thermal cut out


I was just commenting about the bur material not complaining but your comment about stainless is entirely wrong read this for instance but grades and techniques can also come into it.

http://www.worldstainless.org/Files/issf/non-image-files/PDF/Euro_Inox/Surface_Hardening_EN.pdf

If it can be as wear resistant as carbon steels wouldn't be a straightforwards thing to answer - what grade / type of steel and how that is treated. There are some interesting claims about Inox burrs that actually could be correct eg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazzer-Mini-Electronico-Grinder-burrs-64mm-Heavy-Duty-INOX-Food-Friendly/222215009394?hash=item33bd0bf472:g:02cAAOSw2ENW7xdl

Not that this really matters for home use.

John

-


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## marknewham (Oct 9, 2018)

Mine has arrived and is grinding beautifully - Just wondered is everyone's cup. Like this down the bottom?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@marknewham Which bit exactly?

Oh @ajohn

I meant the self resetting thermal cut out isn't on the motor.....so the case and motor doesn't have to get really hot....that would be a tad undesirable and not a hugely accurate method of protecting the motor. I don't believe that detail is in the manual. As for burrs, perhaps you're on to something and should let Mazzer know how they can improve things. If you think Italmill Food Grade burrs would be an improvement you can buy a set and pop them right in your Niche (see if you like them more than I did)...they have the benefit of being a LOT cheaper than the genuine Mazzer Burrs.


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Got mine today. Ended up at no.11 with the sage db. Dosing 18g 30secs for a 38g shot.

Early days but loving it so far! Currently feeding it some dark El Salvador los pirineos from Rave.


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## marknewham (Oct 9, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> @marknewham Which bit exactly?
> 
> Oh @ajohn
> 
> I meant the self resetting thermal cut out isn't on the motor.....so the case and motor doesn't have to get really hot....that would be a tad undesirable and not a hugely accurate method of protecting the motor. I don't believe that detail is in the manual. As for burrs, perhaps you're on to something and should let Mazzer know how they can improve things. If you think Italmill Food Grade burrs would be an improvement you can buy a set and pop them right in your Niche (see if you like them more than I did)...they have the benefit of being a LOT cheaper than the genuine Mazzer Burrs.


The bit at the bottom like scarring between the base and tha side?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

It's a cup.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

marknewham said:


> The bit at the bottom like scarring between the base and tha side?


Ah, those lighter marks...no mine doesn't have that, although it's not as well finished on the base as yours, so any marks like that wouldn't be very obvious. I do have a little dimple the size of a full stop and about 1/10th of a mm deep though near the 3 o clock edge. I hadn't noticed it before. I wiped the inside of my cup out shone a torch in there and the light sort of showed it up. To be honest I really wouldn't worry about it, I don't think the cup will rust or break at that point and I imagine the coffee will still release just fine out of it, looks like it's in a position where most of the time your not going to see it.

I think the main lesson to take from this is to be careful you don't drop the grind cup as a scratch on the outside would be a bit of a day ruiner.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> @marknewham Which bit exactly?
> 
> Oh @ajohn
> 
> I meant the self resetting thermal cut out isn't on the motor.....so the case and motor doesn't have to get really hot....that would be a tad undesirable and not a hugely accurate method of protecting the motor. I don't believe that detail is in the manual. As for burrs, perhaps you're on to something and should let Mazzer know how they can improve things. If you think Italmill Food Grade burrs would be an improvement you can buy a set and pop them right in your Niche (see if you like them more than I did)...they have the benefit of being a LOT cheaper than the genuine Mazzer Burrs.


I did ask about thermal cut out - curiosity really. It's getting pretty common for them to be supplied built into motors. Not usually industrial types that really are 100% rated though but often in stuff that is adequate. It works too as simple as it might be.

I'd have thought stainless burrs would have a different grinding characteristic. I believe the reason some items may be switched to that is that its an easier way of obtaining nice super smooth shiny surfaces. That fact would alter the way the grinds went through the business part..

Look of the inside of the grind cup - yes same here but think that the photo may be exaggerating it. No signs of any scratches though.







When I looked I thought I might get my die grinder out, fit a bit of bar with a slot in the end and polish up inside using a flap of various grades of 3M film.







Much the same as polishing ports up in my car engines at a young age other than I used emery cloth for that.







I used to borrow the die grinder but recently bough a cheapo, needed to modify a plasterboard lift my son bought so that once we had finished with it he could sell it with a clear conscious.

John

-


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Mine arrived today as well after a bit of a faff with DPD.

Fired some beans through it straight out the box and got a 36g pull in 14secs faster than a Mercedes AMG C 63S.

So did the calibration test @DavecUK recommends in his tutorial and set it at 10. Put in 18.10 of beans and got 18.01 out. Pull a shot and got 36g out in 27secs. Taste and mouthfeel were very good.

Now to start honing the routine and trying all those different beans that have been Vac packed and frozen.

Gonna be buzzin like a bee


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What coffee are you grinding at 10?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ajohn said:


> It arrived at 11am. Rather cold so stood it close to a radiator for an hour. Somehow I expected it to be smallish but in real terms it's not far of the size of a mazer mini with it's hopper off. Footprint is smaller. Looks ok next to my Profitec too. Generally feels and looks a quality item. It's black. The grinds cup is way way thicker than the type usually used on hand grinders. Very well polished too on the outside. It is very quiet even when grinding. It also uses what looks to be a proper toggle switch. That style of switch usually has a very high cycle life.
> 
> Checked the calibration and with my grip the mark fell a couple of setting marks short but left as is. Mine doesn't have the notched calibration ring, it's smooth. I don't think I would have used that ring to adjust it anyway.
> 
> ...


Shot 2. 14g in 13.9 out, added one bean upped it to 14.1. Believable as my scales probably round from 0.01g or so readings.

Adjusted slightly over one dot finer and 29.5ml came out. Easy to make adjustments that small so even smaller ones are possible - not so the mini. The problems with that are the ears that locate the burr holder - too much play. It will take a while to see if the Niche has play there but from the above I suspect it's marginal. A finer thread should help and seems to.







Just extended the shot time by 3 secs to correct to 35ml - I know that's ok taste wise from tuning the mini. 5 aint,

It's definitely producing a stronger drink than the mini did. The drink may be more chocolaty hard to say. The pour starts a little later during infusion as well. Straight into a no messing about bottomless pour, 2 on the trot so may be a fluke.







I usually get the same as DavecUK gets - 2 streams for a very short period turning into one neat one.

Really for the beans I use the grinding performance for new burrs is very credible. I doubt if the marginal clumping would even cause light with reason tampers problems.

John

-


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> What coffee are you grinding at 10?


It's Homeground 5 Bean Tweak Espresso Blend

Also got some Thomson's El Salvador and could possibly be going down to 8 on a 18g dose


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Paul K said:


> It's Homeground 5 Bean Tweak Espresso Blend
> 
> Also got some Thomson's El Salvador and could possibly be going down to 8 on a 18g dose


I would expect El Salvador to be a finer grind. On my Vesuvius long prinfusion profile I need quite a fine grind.. my range though is about 15 to 22 ish depending on the coffee. I must be stronger than you when calibrating?

Are you coffees very light roasted?


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I would expect El Salvador to be a finer grind. On my Vesuvius long prinfusion profile I need quite a fine grind.. my range though is about 15 to 22 ish depending on the coffee. I must be stronger than you when calibrating?
> 
> Are you coffees very light roasted?


I am using an Expobar Office Leva DB. I have a pre infusion of 2bar for about 5secs then it ramps up to around 9.5 for the remainder of the pull.

I would say the beans are of a medium roast and the El Salvador probably similar.

Do you think 10 is too much?


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Got mine today. Wow it's quiet! Three shots to dial in a coffee that was drinkable this evening. Lovely.

Mine's come scratched though - is there supposed to be a bit of rubber or something here? The magnet from the lid has rubbed.

https://i.imgur.com/iODJapN.jpg


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

petebetros said:


> Got mine today. Wow it's quiet! Three shots to dial in a coffee that was drinkable this evening. Lovely.
> 
> Mine's come scratched though - is there supposed to be a bit of rubber or something here? The magnet from the lid has rubbed.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iODJapN.jpg


That's a bummer, looks like it's been rubbing in transit.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Paul K said:


> I
> 
> Do you think 10 is too much?


No I just think we calibrated differently.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> No I just think we calibrated differently.


Ok I may have taken your advice from your video 'to just give it a nip' a bit to literal. When I served my time as a Mechanic I was always told I had a touch like an elephant .

So I've just done another calibration and went more full on with it. So I will pull a shot tomorrow and see how I go, might need to notch it up one or four!

*Update* @DavecUK you were spot on the button Dave. I didn't calibrate properly a wee light handed so to speak. However, same espresso bean this morning at 15 was perfect, and I also pulled the El Salvador at 10 and again perfect.

So now taking notes on the grind settings for the beans I have.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Interestingly the Niche might start to show where some people have "juicier" coffees than others. Depending how you roast, a bean can require a finer or coarser grind even for the same roast level.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I think your right Dave. The next couple of weeks/months will be interesting for me anyway as I have a variety of beans to get through, although not as much as 7Kg


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## dimoutsa (May 26, 2017)

Just had my first couple of coffees with the Niche today. Used 18g of Square Mile Red Brick coffee, set, as calibrated out of the box, at 15 and it came out way too fast, 38g in around 18s, and as expected quite sour. Second attempt set to 13 came out a lot better 38g in 23s which didn't end up in the sink. Third attempt set at 12 was on the money, may need to go just a little finer, 38g in 25s and a nice pour through the naked portafilter. In terms of faff using it I must say it is night and day compared to my Mazzer SJ single dosing with the doser. SJ takes forever to use. Really happy with it so far.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Surprised at some of the low settings being used here. If I go lower than 19 on CC Mystery 9 it's a 40s plus shot.

I'm usually around the 20 to 23 mark. Are we all calibrating differently?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Show us a video.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Oh no not again!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

lake_m said:


> Oh no not again!


haha


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

I'm between 20 and 23 for espresso too. The first time I calibrated I was between 17 and 20, then I switched to French press (zero) and recalibrated before going back to espresso. I think I was a little more confident in tightening to the calibration point second time around.



lake_m said:


> Surprised at some of the low settings being used here. If I go lower than 19 on CC Mystery 9 it's a 40s plus shot.
> 
> I'm usually around the 20 to 23 mark. Are we all calibrating differently?


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

Paul K said:


> That's a bummer, looks like it's been rubbing in transit.


Yes, have emailed Niche to let them know.

First shot of Rave Colombia Suarez was set at 20 and flew out, now it's at 16 with 18.5g in, 37g out in 30ish seconds. This is straight from the box, no recalibration.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

petebetros said:


> Yes, have emailed Niche to let them know.
> 
> First shot of Rave Colombia Suarez was set at 20 and flew out, now it's at 16 with 18.5g in, 37g out in 30ish seconds. This is straight from the box, no recalibration.


Nice one.

I followed Dave's advice and redone the calibration again last night in prep for this morning. Bang on the button it was.

Still a little too fast so went to 12.5 and its ideal for the espresso and El Salvador. In fact the El Salvador is just sublime. Mouthfeel, taste in the cup, strength is all there.

Only thing I have noticed is residual coffee in the PF once the shot has been pulled and the Puck knocked out.

So I would suggest, follow Dave's video regarding calibration but go a bit more than you think and see what happens.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

petebetros said:


> Got mine today. Wow it's quiet! Three shots to dial in a coffee that was drinkable this evening. Lovely.
> 
> Mine's come scratched though - is there supposed to be a bit of rubber or something here? The magnet from the lid has rubbed.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iODJapN.jpg


Mine's the same. This came up in an earlier thread so I don't think it's uncommon although I don't recall the outcome. I haven't done anything about it myself.

My grind setting varies from about 13-20. There will be some variation in calibration but I'd have thought nearly anyone following Dave's video would be within 2 or 3 points.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I think the grind settings are always going to vary quite a bit depending on setup, even if we all calibrated the same.

You have to allow for so much else: dose, basket, machine pressure, pre-infusion, extraction ratio, beans, age of beans, taste preferences... personality... underwear... the list goes on.

The best you could do is to agree on buying one bean type, dose and extraction. Then I guess you might see how your setup compares, a teeny bit.

10-20 seems okay to me. I use 12-17 so far depending on beans.


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

petebetros said:


> Mine's come scratched though - is there supposed to be a bit of rubber or something here? The magnet from the lid has rubbed.
> 
> https://i.imgur.com/iODJapN.jpg


This was a reported issues for previous shipments, shame Niche hadn't corrected the packaging !


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Have no marks on the Black version which arrived last week.

Had no plans to join in here but for those on the darker side here is what I am doing.

Using Baytown Boggle Hole I have upped the dose to 20 gms in with Neche set to 12. 10 secs pre-infusion at 91 degrees, 40 gms out in around 40-42 seconds total incl P-I.

Very big range of flavours developing with the Niche. I upped the dose because I even got the 'dreaded',for me,fruit at 18 gms.

I find the new stainless steel cup is very good with no blemishes & after a little use no static.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

I'm running 2 different beans through mine at the moment. An S/O El Salvador and an Espresso blend.

I forgot to take a pic of the espresso in /out, hut here is one for the S/O

This has happened a few times. I didn't expect to get more out than I put in. I wonder if the previous grind (espresso) is getting lossened in a way and is giving more back than it should.

It's a single doser with *zero retention* and I was under the impression you can chop and change your beans as often as you wish without the risk of contamination from previous beans.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Paul K said:


> I'm running 2 different beans through mine at the moment. An S/O El Salvador and an Espresso blend.
> 
> I forgot to take a pic of the espresso in /out, hut here is one for the S/O
> 
> ...


That .44g is about 3% of your dose, you're only going to extract a third of that, so 1% of your shot will be made up of the old bean. You won't taste it.

"Zero retention" is a handy phrase, but in reality it means more like 'less that 0.5g difference'.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Technically it's the same 3 percent after extraction, as you only extract a third of the fresh coffee as well.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Technically it's the same 3 percent after extraction, as you only extract a third of the fresh coffee as well.


Fair enough.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It's still pretty negligible


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

What arw the rubbing marks that are upsetting some owners, is it where the magnet of the lid touches the (painted) magnet of the collar? If so, I mean get a life people, the Niches is stunning for the money but judging it like a Rolex, a Leica, Campagnolo Super Record ad infinitum doesn't seem appropriate to me. If it's another area rubbing then ignore me.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Paul K said:


> I'm running 2 different beans through mine at the moment. An S/O El Salvador and an Espresso blend.
> 
> I forgot to take a pic of the espresso in /out, hut here is one for the S/O
> 
> ...


In my review I defined 3 things, retention, exchange and dose variance, I was also extremely careful to point out some -/+ g numbers for these as no grinder on this earth either now, or made in the future can be "Zero" retention.

What you are seeing is dose variance

I think that although the weight variance is still insignificant as far as taste or extraction goes....it still worth of a little explanation for clarity. When you use the same bean then the variance is going to be minimal and within =/- 0.2g, normally *well within* that figure. The times when this can change is if you just removed the burrs and cleaned the grinder, then a few shots for things to settle down....or if you make a large grind adjustment for pour over, then back to espresso. The first is obvious, after cleaning the next grind or two will begin filling the areas cleaned, the coffee either remaining or exchanging within those areas as mentioned in my review.

The second (a large adjustment) is a bit more subtle, you are changing the particle size and with it the "exchange number" within the grinder (exchange can be +/- 0.3g), so potentially you are (within the limit of scales accuracy) able to make a 0.5g difference (0.02=0.04) and even temporarily affect the total "retention" number. This is because the particles are not a different size and potentially shape.

Changing the coffee has a similar subtle effect due to:


Changing the adjustment of the grinder a small amount

The coffee may change in density

The coffee can grind differently

The roast level can differ (e.g.oils and the roast level can affect the first 3 factors as well)


You will see this quite often when using a wide range of coffees. Some really fill the portafilter for 18g, others don't fill it anywhere near as much, some are fluffier than others and feel quite different as you tamp, some are oiler etc.. etc.. This all makes a dose variance potentially larger when changing coffees than shot after shot of the same coffee. From a physical/physics perspective, there is not really any way around this with such small "dose variance levels" and the fact it's not an apples to apples comparison when you change beans..

So although the variance is insignificant as other have implied.....I hope this helps you understand your grinder better.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PaulL said:


> What arw the rubbing marks that are upsetting some owners, is it where the magnet of the lid touches the (painted) magnet of the collar? If so, I mean get a life people, the Niches is stunning for the money but judging it like a Rolex, a Leica, Campagnolo Super Record ad infinitum doesn't seem appropriate to me. If it's another area rubbing then ignore me.


Considering a ring of card or even just a bit of electrical tape would stop it happening? While it's not the most expensive grinder, I don't think it's too much to ask for it to arrive undamaged.


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> In my review I defined 3 things, retention, exchange and dose variance, I was also extremely careful to point out some -/+ g numbers for these as no grinder on this earth either now, or made in the future can be "Zero" retention.
> 
> What you are seeing is dose variance
> 
> ...


Brilliant, thanks for the response folks. I just wasn't expecting more in the PF. The variance in terms of grind setting is about 2 marks, so nothing really in that.

@DavecUK thanks for clearing that up Dave.


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

PaulL said:


> What arw the rubbing marks that are upsetting some owners, is it where the magnet of the lid touches the (painted) magnet of the collar? If so, I mean get a life people, the Niches is stunning for the money but judging it like a Rolex, a Leica, Campagnolo Super Record ad infinitum doesn't seem appropriate to me. If it's another area rubbing then ignore me.


Sorry buddy but I have to disagree. For some the outlay of £350 - £450 for a grinder is a bit steep. Fair enough they don't 'have' to buy but I would do the same.

You wouldn't accept a new car / iPhone / laptop with a chip/ding on it. Why should Niche be any different.


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Paul K said:


> Sorry buddy but I have to disagree. For some the outlay of £350 - £450 for a grinder is a bit steep. Fair enough they don't 'have' to buy but I would do the same.
> 
> You wouldn't accept a new car / iPhone / laptop with a chip/ding on it. Why should Niche be any different.


Totally agree


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Whether it cost £350 or not is irrelevant. Whether some people can afford the outlay or not, is irrelevant. I doubt Niche were aware of this problem seeing as they had not ever dispatched any, up to this point. No one paid full retail. You all bought them through Kickstarter so get over it. If anyone had paid full retail, then you would have a point. As it is, I am sure Niche will react to this on future models, meanwhile us pioneers can smile when we think how little we paid compared to others


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> Whether it cost £350 or not is irrelevant. Whether some people can afford the outlay or not, is irrelevant.


Is it? Well obviously not!



> I doubt Niche were aware of this problem seeing as they had not ever dispatched any, up to this point. No one paid full retail. You all bought them through Kickstarter so get over it. If anyone had paid full retail, then you would have a point. As it is, I am sure Niche will react to this on future models, meanwhile us pioneers can smile when we think how little we paid compared to others


Doesn't matter what you paid. Yes, Niche will pick up on it and hopefully prevent this from happening again.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Some people are never satisfied, or so it seems.......if the worst you can find to say about it, is this problem with the cap, when you have totally dodged the fact that a Kickstarter project backer is basically a volunteer who receives a substantial discount if you backed it early enough, to a discount making it worthwhile still to back as a non retail item, and you still complain......simple bit of advice, get a life


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Mine had the maget rub mark when it arrived. I rubbed it with my thumb and it went. If it hadn't I wouldn't be stressing about it. My white dot fell out too. I pushed it back in and it's been there ever since.

I've had far more egregious problems with much more expensive kit.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> Some people are never satisfied, or so it seems.......if the worst you can find to say about it, is this problem with the cap, when you have totally dodged the fact that a Kickstarter project backer is basically a volunteer who receives a substantial discount if you backed it early enough, to a discount making it worthwhile still to back as a non retail item, and you still complain......simple bit of advice, get a life


Maybe one should learn to keep one's mouth shut, and take one's own advice and get a life rather than being a keyboard gangster!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Paul K said:


> Maybe one should learn to keep one's mouth shut, and take one's own advice and get a life rather than being a keyboard gangster!


You are talking bollocks, for one simple reason.....I am not complaining, unlike you......


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Yeah whatever!

Carry on business as usual


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Some people are never satisfied, or so it seems.......if the worst you can find to say about it, is this problem with the cap, when you have totally dodged the fact that a Kickstarter project backer is basically a volunteer who receives a substantial discount if you backed it early enough, to a discount making it worthwhile still to back as a non retail item, and you still complain......simple bit of advice, get a life


Can you point me in the direction where it states you may get a machine with cosmetic defects for your kickstarter investment please?

As far as I'm aware, nobody who've received a niche with the 'magnet scratch' has returned it on this basis. The fact machine are being built & sent out long after this fault has been found doesn't bode well for when they finally go into production. Especially when a tiny adjustment of packaging would cure it!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The point I am making, and you seem a typical candidate for this, is you have totally unrealistic expectations of life. To cure this simple problem, I would imagine, would require a re-tooling process. If that is correct, then your assertions regarding machines being built and sent out long after misses the mark. I am not stating that it is a part of the Kickstarter regime, to receive faulty goods. I am stating that people with unrealistic expectations of life get excited by something like this. It is such a small fault, I am surprised (well, not really) that it is even being talked about. It is like going onto amazon and reading reviews where people give it one star because it arrived 2 days late......why do you think the early birds received a 30% discount exactly? I would expect Niche to put something right that requires putting right. I would expect Niche to make adjustments going forward. I would not expect them to be remotely concerned about fixing a problem so minuscule as this......but hey ho


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> The point I am making, and you seem a typical candidate for this, is you have totally unrealistic expectations of life. To cure this simple problem, I would imagine, would require a re-tooling process. If that is correct, then your assertions regarding machines being built and sent out long after misses the mark. I am not stating that it is a part of the Kickstarter regime, to receive faulty goods. I am stating that people with unrealistic expectations of life get excited by something like this. It is such a small fault, I am surprised (well, not really) that it is even being talked about. It is like going onto amazon and reading reviews where people give it one star because it arrived 2 days late......why do you think the early birds received a 30% discount exactly? I would expect Niche to put something right that requires putting right. I would expect Niche to make adjustments going forward. I would not expect them to be remotely concerned about fixing a problem so minuscule as this......but hey ho


Retooling to add a bit of card or tape? You're having a laugh!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> Retooling to add a bit of card or tape? You're having a laugh!


card or tape......make your mind up


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> card or tape......make your mind up


Either would work with no retooling required. We're talking about a rub caused here in transit so all it'll take is something between the case & the magnet in the lid to protect the paint.

Personally I'd go with card as it's more environmentally friendly.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

so how come not all have this problem, if it is transport related? I am sure Dave mentioned somewhere that that was not the way he would have done it. No doubt over time, it will appear on grinders in the home, hence the suggestion of re-designing this aspect


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Paul K said:


> I'm running 2 different beans through mine at the moment. An S/O El Salvador and an Espresso blend.
> 
> I forgot to take a pic of the espresso in /out, hut here is one for the S/O
> 
> ...


My first shot of oily beans retained 0.8g. There after it was 0.1g with no signs of build up and then spitting them out.

I have noticed a couple of things though. If i flick the chute with a fingernail sometimes a fraction of a gram comes out - a rather small one so I do that now when the grind has finished. The manual mentions extending the grind time to ensure that all are ground. In practice in my case due to lighting it's not that easy to see that no more grinds are coming out. Also if I have just stopped the grinder and a briefly start it again an even smaller fraction of a gram may come out. Net effect now so far on a few shots is zero retention as far as 0.1g scales go. My scales usually take longer to settle if say I stick 14 in and a slightly light or heavy 14 comes out so I'd say I have a had a max error of under 0.05g since changing what I do.







I have to work like this as I expect my 30sec via a button to all come out with the same weight.

If your changing beans on the fly you have to remember that there may be permanent retention and some that will mix with the new bean. Personally I think that the only way of checking that is via taste but that is subjective. On the sage grinders for instance I found one small shot on a new bean with a definitely different taste did taste like a blend. Questionable on the 2nd other than on some vanilla flavoured beans, those needed 2 to clear. These were with 14-15g grinds.

So comparing with @DavecUK's review I have a permanent retention of about 0.8g but bear in mind I can't stir the grinds up as they would clump. He reckons that the exchange retention is about 0.3g. That is not much at all. You might taste it you might not.

One thing about permanent retention that I suspect will be the same on any grinder is that they take a number of shots to compact and become permanent. So I would suggest that initially you take a bit more care to get all of the grinds out and don't jump to any conclusions about retention aspects until you have done a number of shots and what is in there has compacted. I suspect I have done it in 4 or 5 but other beans may need more.

Flicking the chute etc - well it's a grinder and grinds stick. The Niche is refreshingly clear of static though and I am using sticky beans.

John

-


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## 2953 (May 1, 2012)

PaulL said:


> What arw the rubbing marks that are upsetting some owners, is it where the magnet of the lid touches the (painted) magnet of the collar? If so, I mean get a life people, the Niches is stunning for the money but judging it like a Rolex, a Leica, Campagnolo Super Record ad infinitum doesn't seem appropriate to me. If it's another area rubbing then ignore me.





dfk41 said:


> Some people are never satisfied, or so it seems.......if the worst you can find to say about it, is this problem with the cap, when you have totally dodged the fact that a Kickstarter project backer is basically a volunteer who receives a substantial discount if you backed it early enough, to a discount making it worthwhile still to back as a non retail item, and you still complain......simple bit of advice, get a life


Errrrr, overreacting much??

I asked a question. Thanks to those who answered.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

No offence intended - that's the problem with forums, posts often seem over-dramatic because you can't get the tone and context across that would be obvious in a real conversation. For what it's worth personally I would not have painted a magnet in the way Niche did, forget rubbing during transport, the constant opening and closing will presumably rub the paint away over time, I would have preferred the magnet showing just as it does in the lid. But do I really care on an Indigogo project I backed which resulted in a small, discrete high quality grinder with Mazzer Kony burrs? Err, no.

Forums do amaze me though and I generally don't like them, whilst a minor topic like this gets emotions flowing I saw in a computer thread that someone effectively accused DC of being on the take with Niche, for reviewing a prototype and donating some money to charity and being enthusiastic and helpful. Did I see many of the 700 or so backers jump in to his defence? No, not one. Thankfully, I did see a Vesuvius heating element thread which showed what I think many of us realise, DC and one or two others are invaluable with their help to others. I have to be honest, when I see trivia such as a scratch of paint would I want to produce anything and sell it to this kind of customer, would I want to give up my personal time at no cost to help with their problems so they can just disappear without putting anything back? Err, no.

Do I think the Niche team should either be participating directly on forums or adding Q&A items to their site based on threads such as this? Probably not to the former and definitely yes to the latter.

Some challenging ramblings from me above which come across much easier in a conversation around the table than they do in a forum.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

I don't agree with the idea of a Kickstarter products being some sort of new consumer relationship where you agree to pay a lower price to take the risk of receiving goods which are less than A-standard. The risk one takes, and for which one may be compensated at a lower retail price, is the potential for the goods never to be delivered by a hitherto unknown manufacturer. The best Kickstarters are ones like this one: mutually beneficial, because some consumers are willing to take a flyer on a product and the consumer gets a discount on something which they get use out of.

There is no doubt in my mind that a product purchased as a Kickstarter project is covered the Consumer Rights Act 2015. In principle you are entitled to receive goods without even minor imperfections. Will you pursue those rights? Maybe not. Maybe you will feel you've been properly compensated by the lower price. Maybe the manufacturer could resolve minor issues with small tweaks. But the principle is beyond dispute.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Niche packaging - I was impressed, even grab handles on the polystyrene parts and indications which end to open. I did wonder why there was a wrap of plastic film over the end of the lid.







Now I know.

Actually my impression of the packaging is that things wont move around but I'm not getting it out again to check. The film is there to prevent rubbing in transit anyway. Mine seemed to have something more like dust in the area around where the magnet in the lid sits but no marks. The part in the aluminium body is a magnetic material of some sort. If it was exposed it might rust and in any case they very probably wouldn't want to ram or stick it in after the body has been coated.

John

-


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Decided to take my top burr out and give it a clean. Was only a little bit of retention and a quick sweep out with a paintbrush maybe gave a quarter of a teaspoon.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Rhys said:


> Decided to take my top burr out and give it a clean. Was only a little bit of retention and a quick sweep out with a paintbrush maybe gave a quarter of a teaspoon.


I think you would be better off especially when using a mix of different beans leaving it alone and clean as suggested in the manual - probably for hygienic reasons. Most of the retention will compact and stay there eventually and carry over when a bean is changed will reduce.

Actually that approach isn't a bad idea on any grinder used for weighing in providing all of a batch of a bean's grind can be got out each time.








My moan about Niche is that I wish it had a work light so that I could easily see that no more grinds were coming out.







Can't have everything though and where i currently have it doesn't help.









John

-


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

So you like looking up chutes eh!!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

filthynines said:


> I don't agree with the idea of a Kickstarter products being some sort of new consumer relationship where you agree to pay a lower price to take the risk of receiving goods which are less than A-standard.


That is not what I said or suggested. I said bearing in mind kickstarter is a project aimed at bringing things to market, then it is a fairly safe bet, that once to the market, on the hoof adjustments can and will be made. I said nothing about accepting inferior goods or warranty. If the best thing that can come out of this process is a redesign of the magnetic catch system then that is pretty good testament to the Niche as a project....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

For the last 262.22g I put in the grinder (20 doses), I got 262.22g out.

The earlier 10 doses lost 0.37g, but then the next 10 coughed up 0.37g too.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Jony said:


> So you like looking up chutes eh!!


Yeh , strains my neck, back and I have to us optrex afterwards, 3 bottles so far.

John

-


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> For the last 262.22g I put in the grinder (20 doses), I got 262.22g out.
> 
> The earlier 10 doses lost 0.37g, but then the next 10 coughed up 0.37g too.


I just had the initial 0.8g loss and the a few 0.1g. Since being more sure that all of the grinds have come out and flicking the chute what went in has come out. I would say that it might take a week or more for the retained grounds to really compact and stay put as much as they could,







It's a feature i have made use of before.

What may cause problems in my case is oil build up in the chute. For instance once that had built up in the exit from the grind chamber on my mini the lens hood was more or less a waste of time and hardly touched what was accumulated there during a grind.

John

-


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> I just had the initial 0.8g loss and the a few 0.1g. Since being more sure that all of the grinds have come out and flicking the chute what went in has come out. I would say that it might take a week or more for the retained grounds to really compact and stay put as much as they could,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think your scales are sensitive enough. My 0.1g scales couldn't detect any diference. One standard deviation is near to +/-0.2g difference between wholebean in & ground dose out. In normal use, after that initial 0.8g, I'd be surprised to see over 0.5g difference.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/103UXMse2_ILXHG9jfKDmmJ4iDYuJX3aI/view?usp=sharing

I just run it for a few seconds after I hear it has run the beans through, no tapping, flicking etc.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> I don't think your scales are sensitive enough. My 0.1g scales couldn't detect any diference. One standard deviation is near to +/-0.2g difference between wholebean in & ground dose out. In normal use, after that initial 0.8g, I'd be surprised to see over 0.5g difference.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/103UXMse2_ILXHG9jfKDmmJ4iDYuJX3aI/view?usp=sharing
> 
> I just run it for a few seconds after I hear it has run the beans through, no tapping, flicking etc.


Depends on how the scales measure internally. I'm sure mine round to 0.1g. They aren't as precise as they were when I bought them but checks show that they still come up with the same number when specific weights are added so my 14g dose may not actually be 14g any more.

The flick is a precaution because once it did eject some grinds. Very little but it did. Also if the grinder is left standing for a while after it's ground a dose and then switched on grinds come out. Under 0.01g. I'd say around 1/3 of what the flick happened to get out.

John

-


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> Yeh , strains my neck, back and I have to us optrex afterwards, 3 bottles so far.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Have you considered a dental mirror?


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## Topshot (Oct 10, 2018)

My Niche arrived here in Australia today, two days ahead of ETA. Dispatch notice sent to me last Thursday, no complaints there!

The thing looks tiny next to the Compak K10 WBC, but it's quieter when grinding believe it or not!

I through some oldish beans through it to "clean" the burs of anything that might have been on them, oil etc.

Then the test run.

18.01 grams into it 17.98 came out, no complaints about grind retention there. Pulled a shot which was way too fast.

Adjusted a bit finer, ground another lot, locked, loaded and pulled another, which was 58gm out for 18gm in 30 seconds, I thought this was too fast!

Decided to taste it and it tasted great, very balanced (Panamar Rati Hartmann Black Honey roasted to about 1-2°C before 2nd crack 17 days ) so the 3 to 1 ratio worked out well.

I'll try it set finer tomorrow to try a 2 to 1 ratio.

I used a 18gm VST basket in a naked handle.

I didn't do much as far as distribution, just taped it with my palm to level the grounds and tamped.

No channeling at all with a real gloopy start of the pour.

If it keeps this up, there will be a Compak K10 for sale in a couple of weeks!


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## hifimacianer (Sep 27, 2018)

My black Niche arrived yesterday here in Germany.

Build quality is great, it's pretty small (what I like) and quiet.

Thanks to previous reviews, I was able to get a good shot with the second try (set on 17) with my cafelat Robot.

Will go a bit finer with the next shots, but this one was already good.

I also tried filter setting today, and this was already pretty good with the first try (setting between the screw of the hinge).

Pouring was a bit too long on paper, so I will set it a bit coarser tomorrow, but it already tasted pretty good.

Switching between the settings was really easy - and I didn't had any "muddy" looking ground after the pour.

That's a good sign, and exactly what I was looking for.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Opened mine up today and gave a full clean, the first time since arriving as part of the first batch released and got out a crazy 0.52g for my efforts, barely worth it but did enjoy listening to @DavecUK taking me through the procedure.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

********** said:


> Opened mine up today and gave a full clean, the first time since arriving as part of the first batch released and got out a crazy 0.52g for my efforts, barely worth it but did enjoy listening to @DavecUK taking me through the procedure.


<sigh></sigh>


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ahh Dave's soothing tones,haha


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Jony said:


> Ahh Dave's soothing tones,haha


Soporific


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

@DavecUK maybe you could produce some ASMR videos for your YouTube channel?



Jony said:


> Ahh Dave's soothing tones,haha


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I am amazed the channel gets subscribers, some people will subscribe to any old rubbish....or they are subbing by mistake.


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I am amazed the channel gets subscribers, some people will subscribe to any old rubbish....or they are subbing by mistake.


My subscription was entirely intentional!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> I am amazed the channel gets subscribers, some people will subscribe to any old rubbish....or they are subbing by mistake.


In my defense, I only subscribed hoping for more vids like 




.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I think the only reason I watch them. Are the music, and his write up,haha


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> In my defense, I only subscribed hoping for more vids like


The only worthwhile one on the site. I might put a few more up with me freezin me nuts of on a chair trying to keep warm with a hot coffee, while he wanders around outside. I tie the long long dog lead (extendible thing) to the rotary washing line and he wanders about. He was giving me loads of ballache about going out today...but it was pretty chilly out. Tomorrow though I'll be out there with him. I'll probably do a video. The trouble with him havin no eyes is he has no idea how horrible it is outside.

I mean I wouldn't mind if he would at least have a wee in the flower bed n stuff, but oh no, he holds onto it all like it's made of solid gold, then the moment he is back inside...it's off to the litter tray. Mind you, I'd miss him if he wasn't around, normally I look around and he is just sitting there within 3 feet of me...and in the evening on my lap in front of the telly. He is getting all extra lovey right now, because it's feeding time in 1.5 hours.....


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jony said:


> I think the only reason I watch them. Are the music, and his write up,haha


If I could find Gregorian chant in the YouTube music library....I would use it in a heartbeat.


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## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

PaulL said:


> What arw the rubbing marks that are upsetting some owners, is it where the magnet of the lid touches the (painted) magnet of the collar? If so, I mean get a life people, the Niches is stunning for the money but judging it like a Rolex, a Leica, Campagnolo Super Record ad infinitum doesn't seem appropriate to me. If it's another area rubbing then ignore me.


Even at Rolex standards this is not a big deal, their rule of thumb is any flaw visible at an arms length is rectified. It surely will rub as the grinder is used won't it? If this is the only flaw that is coming up regularly, I think Niche has done really well.


----------



## Primabarista (Oct 8, 2018)

Paul K said:


> I'm running 2 different beans through mine at the moment. An S/O El Salvador and an Espresso blend.
> 
> I forgot to take a pic of the espresso in /out, hut here is one for the S/O
> 
> ...


Can I ask what scales you have there? They look like lunar scales, but my pearl and lunar scales don't seem to go to 2 decimal places, is this a setting or are they a optional version that is more precise? Thanks


----------



## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Primabarista said:


> Can I ask what scales you have there? They look like lunar scales, but my pearl and lunar scales don't seem to go to 2 decimal places, is this a setting or are they a optional version that is more precise? Thanks


Hi there

Yes they are Lunar scales.

If you have a set the recent FW update should allow you to do so. I have mine in High Res mode which allows to 2 decimal point.

Have a look here and it's gives you the info on how to do it

https://help.acaia.co/hc/en-us/articles/205645705-What-is-weighing-resolution-and-can-I-change-it-


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## bobbee (Jan 27, 2016)

Primabarista said:


> Can I ask what scales you have there? They look like lunar scales, but my pearl and lunar scales don't seem to go to 2 decimal places, is this a setting or are they a optional version that is more precise? Thanks


The default weighing resolution of the lunar is 0.1 g. When the resolution is set to high, the division will be 0.01 g and the display will show 0.00

https://help.acaia.co/hc/en-us/articles/205645705-What-is-weighing-resolution-and-can-I-change-it-

Edit;

(I see now paulk and I were posting at exactly the same time)

I was looking here because I just recieved the niche this week and seen your question. Thought might as well answer it. Well, anyway hello from another niche owner from The Netherlands 

Bob


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

bobbee said:


> The default weighing resolution of the lunar is 0.1 g. When the resolution is set to high, the division will be 0.01 g and the display will show 0.00
> 
> https://help.acaia.co/hc/en-us/articles/205645705-What-is-weighing-resolution-and-can-I-change-it-


Lol, beat me to it


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

bobbee said:


> Edit;
> 
> (I see now paulk and I were posting at exactly the same time)
> 
> ...


Greetings from Scotland fellow Niche Owner!


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

Loving my new Niche, it is about 20 grinds in and seem to be averaging about +/- 0.2g now.

Not that I have anything to compare it to but it is nice and quiet, and the grinds are nice and fluffy.

What does surprise me is I have to have the grind setting all the way down at 3, to get 13g in/ 26g out in 25 second pour...... this seems a lot lower than others ?


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## randyr5 (Nov 13, 2018)

Downunder55 said:


> Loving my new Niche, it is about 20 grinds in and seem to be averaging about +/- 0.2g now.
> 
> Not that I have anything to compare it to but it is nice and quiet, and the grinds are nice and fluffy.
> 
> What does surprise me is I have to have the grind setting all the way down at 3, to get 13g in/ 26g out in 25 second pour...... this seems a lot lower than others ?


Sounds like it needs to be re-calibrated. Watch DaveC's video on what to do when you when you receive your Niche.


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

randyr5 said:


> Sounds like it needs to be re-calibrated. Watch DaveC's video on what to do when you when you receive your Niche.


Thanks but, that was the first thing I did after unpacking the grinder.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

Downunder55 said:


> Thanks but, that was the first thing I did after unpacking the grinder.


I didn't calibrate properly, what I mean is I didn't tighten the silver ring much and I was way off. Got some help from Dave as detailed further up the thread when he mentioned we calibrated differently.

So recalibrated again this time I went tighter on the silver ring than I would have expected and bingo, job done.

Pending on the bean I am moving between 10 /12 at the moment. 12 for my staple everyday bean and 10 for my S/O. Dave did mention grind variance meaning you can have the same bean with the same roast level and it grinds completely different from the previous, however these are just minor details. It's about how it tastes in the cup.

I would do a recalibration again only go a bit further than before and see what happens


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Paul K said:


> I didn't calibrate properly, what I mean is I didn't tighten the silver ring much and I was way off. Got some help from Dave as detailed further up the thread when he mentioned we calibrated differently.
> 
> So recalibrated again this time I went tighter on the silver ring than I would have expected and bingo, job done.
> 
> ...


Proof positive that one mans finger tight can be way off another's. Personally, I can't see it matters much so long as you can get fine enough without going off the scale.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Downunder55 said:


> Loving my new Niche, it is about 20 grinds in and seem to be averaging about +/- 0.2g now.
> 
> Not that I have anything to compare it to but it is nice and quiet, and the grinds are nice and fluffy.
> 
> What does surprise me is I have to have the grind setting all the way down at 3, to get 13g in/ 26g out in 25 second pour...... this seems a lot lower than others ?


What basket are you using? If you're underdosing, this well could be an issue.


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## Downunder55 (Apr 2, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> Proof positive that one mans finger tight can be way off another's. Personally, I can't see it matters much so long as you can get fine enough without going off the scale.


You are correct, ....in reality it isn't really changing anything except a pointer, relative to a reasonably undefined point of reference (finger tight).

I just set my settings to get a good outcome and adjust relative to that as required.

At some time I might try a re-calibration, but currently having too much fun making shots to be concerned


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Last 30 doses of 13.12g av., single mug drip grind (a few adjustments around the region of the calibration mark)...

Wholebean in 393.52g

Grinds out 393.56g

Stdev wholebean in 0.05g

Stdev dose out 0.19g

Stdev difference between wholebean & grinds out (what the grinder itself does) 0.17g.

Long story short, variation in dose over 0.4g is going to be very rare, 2/3 time less than 0.2g.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I've changed the way dose with the Niche. I prefer to distribute in the portafilter with a Londinium style tool. I was grinding into the cup, inverting via a Norvin funnel and then stirring with funnel in still on the portafilter in place.

Then I realised that the portafilter stays in place without holding it if you remove the wooden disc and use the funnel. I added a clear rubber / plastic cover as I dont want the wood to get wet from the portafilter. This stays in place as the wooden disc and cup can go in their normal position. Naked extractions appear the same as before with one less step.









Plastic cover









Dosing straight into portafilter, with no need to hold in place, followed by a stir with distribution tool









Back to normal for filter grind (plastic stays in place)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I thought I would try dosing straight into the portafilter. Amazingly high pile of grinds. On MM the only grinder I have used that would match it is the one built into the BE, sharper peak though on that. This doesn't do the height of the pile justice.









I'm not sure I could set up as shown in the other post on this as the pile might hit the chute. I'm using a bottomless as well and it surprised me how low it has to be towards the end of the grind.








Looks like I should have dusted the tamper.

John

-


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

ajohn said:


> I thought I would try dosing straight into the portafilter. Amazingly high pile of grinds. On MM the only grinder I have used that would match it is the one built into the BE, sharper peak though on that. This doesn't do the height of the pile justice.
> 
> View attachment 37815
> 
> ...


It's direct into the portafilter but only because I'm using a @Norvin dosing funnel.

This is what keeps the grinds in and enables hands free operation.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

How the Niche SIZE compares to other grinders/PuqPress.










I'm not posting my tasting findings until I've had chance to have a good play. And I am not likely to compare any aspect to the Monolith grinders for obvious reasons.

In looks it is very much along the lines of the Kitchen Aid, unsurprisingly! Anything I say is going to sound judgemental, I don't mean it to be (I have nothing against the mixer!). I can fully see where it fits in the market - the home-user grinder choice was obviously limited, and the Niche having the ability to grind for both espresso and other methods, plus little/no retention, ease of use, and size make for a great combination.

More about taste in the cup soon


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

It would be most interesting to hear a comparison with the Monoliths. Please don't be scared to do that.



MildredM said:


> How the Niche SIZE compares to other grinders/PuqPress.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@MildredM pretty please ..

It needs some ply on it .. whoops I mean leather


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You could compare the Monolith and the Niche, but not if you are going to try and say which one is best, because that would be pointless. Yes, you could come up with a list of tests, but they are broadly very similar in a much as they are both specifically designed to single dose. You could run taste tests but again, that would be meaningless unless people were just happy with comments in general, as taste is subjective


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> You could compare the Monolith and the Niche, but not if you are going to try and say which one is best, because that would be pointless. Yes, you could come up with a list of tests, but they are broadly very similar in a much as they are both specifically designed to single dose. You could run taste tests but again, that would be meaningless unless people were just happy with comments in general, as taste is subjective


The comparisons would go as far as 'they both grind beans'.

How can I 'compare' two entirely entities - price alone sets them in different market places. Taste would, as you say, be subjective - or personal.

So far, having used it this afternoon, I can say it is straightforward and fuss-free to use. You put the beans in, the grind comes out fluffy, not clumpy, with virtually no static. I need more time to fine tune it yet


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I'll tease you Mildred to compare Niche against Monoliths. Which I shouldn't do and my apologies!

I think with the Sage and Niche showing up in the market it gives a different path for upgrading. The starting combo is not just staple Classic paired with SJ. What do you upgrade from Niche if you want to single dose, still? Not many mid-budget options! Only EK43, R120, Monolith Flat (Max)... Maybe Tanzania or Ditting offerings, but neither of them are popular here. People will be curious as to whether Monoliths are the end game to the home barista.

Not a question I can answer, but very curious about. I personally don't see anything in between Niche and EK43/Monolith Flat and that's where I am now. I am not upgrading from Niche today, but it sets something to think about and makes me curious!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> The comparisons would go as far as 'they both grind beans'.
> 
> How can I 'compare' two entirely entities - price alone sets them in different market places. Taste would, as you say, be subjective - or personal.
> 
> So far, having used it this afternoon, I can say it is straightforward and fuss-free to use. You put the beans in, the grind comes out fluffy, not clumpy, with virtually no static. I need more time to fine tune it yet


Taste isn't impossible as you are probably well aware of what you drink.

One thing I have noticed is needing to set the Niche finer over now a number of shots. Opposite of what I would expect on a brand new flat burr grinder with oily beans. Started at 15 1/2 and now a touch under 12. Plus no significant clumps unlike new flat burrs and weighing in taking several kg to improve to a similar standard. Just to confuse things further I'm comparing straight into the filter basket against via the grind cup. Not enough shots yet to be sure but may need different settings for the same in to out.

John

-


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I found similar results. The grind was much tighter than I expected. Perhaps when mine comes back the burrs will be more like run in. The grind was tight but no clumping at all. I found on my rotary pump Nota, that the pour might not start for 15 seconds and complete in anything from an additional 20 to 30 seconds for a really acceptable drink. Whereas on my E5, even if I deliberately tighten the grind, the pour usually starts within 10 seconds and is about 17 to 25 to get the output I like


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## PineappleMonkey (Sep 13, 2017)

I need some sort of tripod setup or an extra pair of hands to take some nice video. The ones I've tried completely botch up my process as I can't one hand it. They all have tasted great so far though! I'm still really impressed with this grinder every time I use it. I keep relating back to the thwacking, bumping of the Vario and the wastefulness of the K30...I don't miss those for one second.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

PPapa said:


> I'll tease you Mildred to compare Niche against Monoliths. Which I shouldn't do and my apologies!
> 
> I think with the Sage and Niche showing up in the market it gives a different path for upgrading. The starting combo is not just staple Classic paired with SJ. What do you upgrade from Niche if you want to single dose, still? Not many mid-budget options! Only EK43, R120, Monolith Flat (Max)... Maybe Tanzania or Ditting offerings, but neither of them are popular here. People will be curious as to whether Monoliths are the end game to the home barista.
> 
> Not a question I can answer, but very curious about. I personally don't see anything in between Niche and EK43/Monolith Flat and that's where I am now. I am not upgrading from Niche today, but it sets something to think about and makes me curious!


I don't think the R120 is an "upgrade" option. Have you seen one in real life? They are HUGE! Really. And messy. And wastefull, absolutely not low on any kind of retention whatever you do. And a PITA to move between different beans and grinds. And you will have to tinker a fair bit about to be able to single dose (and then also remove the bag-shaker and it's mechanism if you do not want the neighbourhood complaining if you use it).

To top it off - and this is based on my limited expierence so very very subjective/personal - I absolutely did not like the output. It cured me for a long time from any notion to "upgrade" my M4D. In that sense I was really blown away by the Niche Zero - for me the output is better ... Now it could be that this was due to not being able to fine-tune the settings on the R120 in a limited time. But in itself that only proofs my point. Setting the grind right on the Niche is easy.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

The R120 coughs up a 20g dose in less than 2 seconds while the Niche takes maybe 15s, depending on how much the beans bounce around.

The advantage of a R120 or Ek43, when single dosing, is that you will get more consistentcy shot to shot but it doesn't mean they are built for single dosing. In fact I don't know of a grinder that doesn't give better results with more beans in the grinding chamber.

There's always a degree of randomness when single dosing.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

tohenk2 said:


> I don't think the R120 is an "upgrade" option. Have you seen one in real life? They are HUGE! Really. And messy. And wastefull, absolutely not low on any kind of retention whatever you do. And a PITA to move between different beans and grinds. And you will have to tinker a fair bit about to be able to single dose (and then also remove the bag-shaker and it's mechanism if you do not want the neighbourhood complaining if you use it).
> 
> To top it off - and this is based on my limited expierence so very very subjective/personal - I absolutely did not like the output. It cured me for a long time from any notion to "upgrade" my M4D. In that sense I was really blown away by the Niche Zero - for me the output is better ... Now it could be that this was due to not being able to fine-tune the settings on the R120 in a limited time. But in itself that only proofs my point. Setting the grind right on the Niche is easy.


What a load of arse! The r120 retains almost nothing dose to dose as many on the forum have witnessed during forum days, it is simple to adjust between settings and is bloody good in the cup. I had one that I used daily for a year. I agree it is ridiculously big, but is a great single riser. Perhaps you had a rogue one?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

PPapa said:


> I'll tease you Mildred to compare Niche against Monoliths. Which I shouldn't do and my apologies!
> 
> I think with the Sage and Niche showing up in the market it gives a different path for upgrading. The starting combo is not just staple Classic paired with SJ. What do you upgrade from Niche if you want to single dose, still? Not many mid-budget options! Only EK43, R120, Monolith Flat (Max)... Maybe Tanzania or Ditting offerings, but neither of them are popular here. People will be curious as to whether Monoliths are the end game to the home barista.
> 
> Not a question I can answer, but very curious about. I personally don't see anything in between Niche and EK43/Monolith Flat and that's where I am now. I am not upgrading from Niche today, but it sets something to think about and makes me curious!


Making Espresso is a hobby, like all hobbies for most people there is no "end game". Or perhaps it's that people just get bored and get a new hobby (perhaps that is me )

Next year there will be something different to ponder on whether it can make the brown better some people will buy it, some won't.

Same as in Cameras or Hi Fi , there are always some people that will buy the next most expensive thing.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

And there is always someone, like me, looking for Ferrari performance at Fiat Uno price...



Mrboots2u said:


> Making Espresso is a hobby, like all hobbies for most people there is no "end game". Or perhaps it's that people just get bored and get a new hobby (perhaps that is me )
> 
> Next year there will be something different to ponder on whether it can make the brown better some people will buy it, some won't.
> 
> Same as in Cameras or Hi Fi , there are always some people that will buy the next most expensive thing.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> What a load of arse! The r120 retains almost nothing dose to dose as many on the forum have witnessed during forum days, it is simple to adjust between settings and is bloody good in the cup. I had one that I used daily for a year. I agree it is ridiculously big, but is a great single riser. Perhaps you had a rogue one?


Could be. But:

First - I did say I had a limited expierence in a limited time.

Second - I stressed that "in the cup" was very personal and for me. "bloody good" for you is not per se what I like.

You used it for a year (much much longer than I did) at home (I did not) with the bag shaker without full hopper, without any further modifications for single dosing, had almost no retention and could live with the noise? I guess the one (2 actually) I encountered was (were) rogue and/or yours was a very good one.



(Out of curiosity: how did you catch the grinds? That in itself was a challenge for me and why I said "messy". At the time I only tried a portafilter. The cup solution of the Niche is a good one I think.)
​
Size on the other hand has nothing to do with "rogue" or taste. I want to use it in the kitchen, have limited space under or in front of my cupboards and therefore do not want such a big grinder (78cm) on the counter (92cm). Even if you consider it a great riser (?), it simply would not fit and even if it did my wife would need to reach more than 10cm over her head to tip in beans, and I do not consider that very user friendly at all.

I can see the R120 is a solid grinder. It will work for ages. I can imagine it does it's job in a commercial setting, especially filling bags. I can even see it working out for you, and somebody else (1 of the 2 I visited).



All in all
​
I still just don't think the R120 an upgrade for home use - where the Niche does fit and works easy and well.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

My comment was purely based on your observations. Of course you have to use a cup the. Tip into into the ports filter, but you don't have to stir or shake just tamp. I enjoyed y r120 but ultimately moved it on because it was not going into my wife's kitchen. As a single doser it is awesome, remove the bag shaker and it is fairly quiet and super quick. These observations were not just mine, forum members had the chance to use it and pull shots at the forum day we ran.

Ultimately it is not kitchen friendly, but in the cup it is much better than the niche


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

I did not use a cup until I got the Niche. I *think* I would never be able to shake my OCD to distribute when using one. (I do have a knock-off blind shaker, got it out of the packaging and did not like it. Maybe I should try it once.). A portafilter does not work for the R120 and the bag shaker I would remove.

So if it is not an "upgrade" that is acceptable in the kitchen you will need another space for it. Can be great if you have the spare room. (If not in the kitchen, where did you use it for a year? The other person I know happy with it for a longer period more or less has a wall in his livingroom dedicated to it. Or did you gave it up when you married? Now that's love for you ;-) )

Let's agree that for whatever reason our observations are wildly different. (To be absolutely honest: the first one I looked at I never thought about checking for retention. The second one I did check and did far have more than I liked. Could be oily beans used before, could be the weather, could be "rogue" as you now say. Could also be what caused the second "in the cup" to be not to my liking.)

Ultimately "in the cup" is the biggest reason why I would consider any grinder an upgrade to another one.



For you it did work for a year, for me it did not work (on 2 separate days).
​


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

tohenk2 said:


> (I do have a knock-off blind shaker, got it out of the packaging and did not like it. Maybe I should try it once.)


Where from?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ebay Aus.^


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Removed top burr to give the Niche a bit of a brush and vacuum today. As others have already said - it's so easy and quick to do and astonishing that after a couple of months of solid daily use, how little (less than.1g) grinds had been retained. It's such a pleasure to use, it looks good (to me), small footprint, zero retention, good quality results and the ability to switch easily between espresso and filter - really glad I backed this.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

********** said:


> Opened mine up today and gave a full clean, the first time since arriving as part of the first batch released and got out a crazy 0.52g for my efforts, barely worth it but did enjoy listening to @DavecUK taking me through the procedure.


Just to add to the above post, it took only three doses for it to settle back into normal operation i.e. 15.14g in 15.12g out, happy days


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

salty said:


> Removed top burr to give the Niche a bit of a brush and vacuum today. As others have already said - it's so easy and quick to do and astonishing that after a couple of months of solid daily use, how little (less than.1g) grinds had been retained. It's such a pleasure to use, it looks good (to me), small footprint, zero retention, good quality results and the ability to switch easily between espresso and filter - really glad I backed this.


What price did you get in at?


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> What price did you get in at?


Black for £385 plus £10 p&p


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Jony said:


> Ebay Aus.^


Correct.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

salty said:


> Black for £385 plus £10 p&p


You did well, I think a lot of forum members got in pretty early. mate of mine got in at or £360 plus P&P I think. The £350s were almost impossible to get, sold out too fast. At least I didn't need that one way ticket to Argentina. Even after more than a year using them, I still smile every time and enjoy the simplicity of it.


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> You well, I think a lot of forum members got in pretty early. mate of mine got in at or £360 plus P&P I think. The £350s were almost impossible to get, sold out too fast. At least I didn't need that one way ticket to Argentina. Even after more than a year using them, I still smile every time and enjoy the simplicity of it.


I know what you mean about simplicity. I made 6 flat whites in succession this afternoon for the latte art throw down on the Mara I bought about 6 weeks ago. I'm still a rookie as far as steaming milk and pulling shots is concerned but even so the workflow and simplicity of the Niche made it a breeze. Sadly didn't improve the quality of the "art" but can't really hold the Niche responsible for that









I like the grind cup part of the operation too. Works well for me and making back to back drinks is easier than using a PF to grind into as you can be weighing/grinding another dose while pulling a shot/steaming milk.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I found similar results. The grind was much tighter than I expected. Perhaps when mine comes back the burrs will be more like run in. The grind was tight but no clumping at all. I found on my rotary pump Nota, that the pour might not start for 15 seconds and complete in anything from an additional 20 to 30 seconds for a really acceptable drink. Whereas on my E5, even if I deliberately tighten the grind, the pour usually starts within 10 seconds and is about 17 to 25 to get the output I like


I've found the pour can start later from the Niche. I go on strength of taste and compared with my mini it's stronger. Actual taste wise very little difference. A later start sort of suggests infusion is more spread about in the puck - does to me anyway. I've also tried straight into the portafilter on it. Preparation is more difficult because of the size of the pile it gives and that has caused some variation in what comes out. Slight impression that used this way flow starts at more or less the normal time.

In all cases I am aiming for 33 to 35 out in 30 sec. Using the cup at one grinder setting gave 40 out where as into the portafilter with the same grind gave 33.







Then I started worrying too much about tamping the rather large heap of grinds and got more variation either way. Best thing to do how ever some one tamps is to just do it rather than taking extra care. if it works then ok, if not something wrong with the technique used.

Have to wait for my next batch to mature now and can't see any point comparing on a bean I have never used before.

John

-


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

How many of us are shaking and stirring the grinds in the cup I wonder?

Thinking about coffee chap's review I haven't experimented myself yet what taste difference there is for me.

And I don't know if it's my coffee paranoia setting in again though I can't seem to get the same heavy mouth feel and body I used to get though I can't be sure what to put it down to as I changed my espresso machine around same time as changing grinder to niche. Asking really to see if what I describe is not unusual for people when they move from flat to conical?


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I shake/swirl the cup (then use a funnel to put the grinds in the basket). Have you changed beans?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> How many of us are shaking and stirring the grinds in the cup I wonder?
> 
> Thinking about coffee chap's review I haven't experimented myself yet what taste difference there is for me.
> 
> And I don't know if it's my coffee paranoia setting in again though I can't seem to get the same heavy mouth feel and body I used to get though I can't be sure what to put it down to as I changed my espresso machine around same time as changing grinder to niche. Asking really to see if what I describe is not unusual for people when they move from flat to conical?


I stir the grinds in the cup. But I do feel I haven't got the perfect technique for the perfect pour.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

In my experience, mastering the side to side shake to level the grinds in the basket makes a big difference. Now I've got that right I rarely if ever use my levelling device.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Pucks are funny things. Seems like anything done to them can make a difference.

I've had my perfect pours straight into a single stream using the grinds cup, inverting at moderate speed and tapping to account for the lop sided grinds that will be in the basket, tapping sideways a bit more after the cup is removed and then leveller then tamp. Moderate - speed - just invert using "normal" hand and arm movement speeds. Last night I tried a super quick turn over and rest the same. Altered what came out by rather a lot despite my 15kg tamping.

Not sorted out straight into the portafilter. Tap them down, levelling tool and tamp. When it works out 2 streams for a short period starting sooner than they do via the grind cup but usually quickly turn into one. When it works less comes out than with the cup. circa 30ml as against 40. If it didn't work out - up towards the 40. The BE produced big heaps and I used to lightly thumb them down so will try that next.

I changed the way I tamped when I was grinding with the mini. Net result was very very little variation in what came out. I wasn't getting much variation anyway. Then came the next can of beans from the same roasting batch. My 33g out changed to 27 over a couple of shots. I wondered about 58,4mm tampers so instead of buying one I offset the tamper to hit the side of the basket and ran that all round the basket with only light pressure on the tamper. That seems to be what reduced the variation.







Believe it or not there is some logic behind that.

I've tried stirring grinds before. With the beans I use most it doesn't break up clumps it just makes more. Don't know what it would do via the Niche. I am sure clumps past some point are really bad news. My Niche doesn't seem to clump at all now. That didn't take many shots and they were very loosely packed from new anyway.

If some one has switched from HX to dual boiler I wouldn't be at all surprised if taste changed. It has on all 3 machines i have used. Different tuning and different quantities of coffee has managed to get me very similar drinks. Never used an HX machine though but would like to try one. Maybe one day when I sell some I have.

John

-


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Regarding the potential of a comparison between the Niche and Monolith, would it really be pointless? I understand that preferences and tastes are subjective, but would that stop a meaningful comparison?

I'm into wine and if presented with a wine for a tenner and another for £80 I may well prefer the taste of the £10 bottle but as long as the more expensive wine wasn't faulty or just plain ridiculously over-priced, I could still taste it and recognise that the expression of terrior, cellaring potential and structure/ balance make it a technically better wine, although maybe not to my taste.

Would it not be possible to do something similar with coffee? For example taste them both, disregard your personal preferences just for the sake of the experiment and focus purely on things like separation of flavours, ease of use, relative gring retention, static creation, noise levels when grinding, etc?

I have very little experience of very expensive grinders, so the answer may be no, it's just a question.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

cold war kid said:


> Regarding the potential of a comparison between the Niche and Monolith, would it really be pointless? I understand that preferences and tastes are subjective, but would that stop a meaningful comparison?
> 
> I have very little experience of very expensive grinders, so the answer may be no, it's just a question.


It would be very easy to compare objective parameters, such as speed to grind each dose, weight in vs weight out for 10 doses each.

Taste in the cup is what the barista makes.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

cold war kid said:


> Regarding the potential of a comparison between the Niche and Monolith, would it really be pointless? I understand that preferences and tastes are subjective, but would that stop a meaningful comparison?
> 
> I'm into wine and if presented with a wine for a tenner and another for £80 I may well prefer the taste of the £10 bottle but as long as the more expensive wine wasn't faulty or just plain ridiculously over-priced, I could still taste it and recognise that the expression of terrior, cellaring potential and structure/ balance make it a technically better wine, although maybe not to my taste.
> 
> ...


I am just working on it


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> How many of us are shaking and stirring the grinds in the cup I wonder?
> 
> Thinking about coffee chap's review I haven't experimented myself yet what taste difference there is for me.
> 
> And I don't know if it's my coffee paranoia setting in again though I can't seem to get the same heavy mouth feel and body I used to get though I can't be sure what to put it down to as I changed my espresso machine around same time as changing grinder to niche. Asking really to see if what I describe is not unusual for people when they move from flat to conical?


I've tried stirring in the cup and it made no consistent difference to me. I then tried shaking on a flat surface - in a circular motion - again no real difference, and I still had a lopsided mountain of grounds.

I have found that getting the grinds into the PF in a level manner does help and have figured a reasonably consistent way to do this. No shaking in mid air, no sideways taps.

Two sharp taps of each side of the PF, and two on the bottom and the grounds are well distributed when the cup is removed. I do this on the corner of the mat / worktop.

If I don't get it right, I see pinholes more often and a more pronounced speeding up of the pour towards the end. The taste in the cup being weaker (less body) and bitter. This is relative of course... it's still nice, but better is possible. I am (still) dosing 15g FWIW, and do wonder if this makes things harder to be consistent or not.

Image for fun. Lefties might need to do the opposite.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm a lefty. So I'm reading this on a mirror. 

I'll try this btw. The problem I've got is that I have 51mm basket, so can't just dump the grinds. I do have a funnel, but it's not quite the same.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I'm not sure there are likely to be many people who will end up with the Niche and Monolith at the same time! I will be happy to answer your specific questions though.



cold war kid said:


> Regarding the potential of a comparison between the Niche and Monolith, would it really be pointless? I understand that preferences and tastes are subjective, but would that stop a meaningful comparison?
> 
> Would it not be possible to do something similar with coffee? For example taste them both, disregard your personal preferences just for the sake of the experiment and focus purely on things like separation of flavours,


Compared to the Monolith I found it more difficult to determine different flavours.



> ease of use,


I found it perfectly easy to use. Ian didn't like the cup and more than once had a spillage. I prefer to grind straight into a portafilter basket but the cup didn't bother me too much. Therefore, compared to the M it was pretty similar, I'd say.



> relative gring retention,


Negligble - and similar to one another.



> static creation,


Zero, the same as the M.



> noise levels when grinding,


The Niche was definitely noisier. Due in part, possibly, to the sound echoing in the larger top chamber with plastic lid acting as a sounding board. Slower too.



> etc?


Size - comparable

Weight - Niche is lighter

Design and style - very different

Filling a gap in the market - absolutely! And at a quarter of the price, it's way more affordable.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm a lefty. So I'm reading this on a mirror.
> 
> I'll try this btw. The problem I've got is that I have 51mm basket, so can't just dump the grinds. I do have a funnel, but it's not quite the same.


Obviously you can't see what's going on inside the cup during this process (a glass cup would be nice), but you do have to give it quite a bash, and I tilt the PF at least 30 degrees.

I would imagine grinds to be thrown out without the cup.

Happy tapping!


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

MildredM said:


> And at a quarter of the price, it's way more affordable.


I think this is always going to be the elephant in the room.

In a way it would be strange to compare it to Hi-Fi, but that's something I've dipped in and out of since I was about five so it's something I have experience of.

After decades of not owning a decent pair of headphones I bought some AKG's for £80 and was blown away by how good they were, so thought I'd buy another pair of AKG's, this time for £150. Again I was blown away by the sound so next was a £600 headphone amp that came with a slight improvement, closely followed by a £300 pair of headphones which again had a slight improvement. Next is a £100 lead for Christmas and a flight case to keep them in, both of which may provide no improvement whatsoever. Can you see where I'm going?

Diminishing returns will absolutely always kick in at some point with this sort of hobby. If there's two of you as a couple into it then not only may you indulge one another but the point where you would feel selfish isn't there because you're both benefiting from it and if you work hard, then why not?

For most people with a solo hobby though, there comes a point where either you can't justify the expense or those diminishing returns make it not worth the extra investment.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> I've tried stirring in the cup and it made no consistent difference to me. I then tried shaking on a flat surface - in a circular motion - again no real difference, and I still had a lopsided mountain of grounds.
> 
> I have found that getting the grinds into the PF in a level manner does help and have figured a reasonably consistent way to do this. No shaking in mid air, no sideways taps.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should try KIS. Place the portafilter over the cannister. Invert in no particular hurry just use "normal" movement speed, don't try and avoid the lop sided load. Tap the side of the portafilter with or against your hand to reduce the lop sided heap. Might take a bit of practice to get that right. Remove the cannister and tap again same way if needed. I use a leveller but a thumb can be used to spread the grinds a bit if needed but don't press down if done that way just move them. Then tamp. There shouldn't be any need to tap down as that will happen twice to some extent - once when the grinds fall into the cannister and again when they fall into the filter basket.

Each time I have done this I have had perfect pours and 40.x ml out. The 40 didn't vary only the x. No signs of channeling or pin holes etc - as the pour was perfect there shouldn't be any way. Only thing that is bugging me that compared with the grinder I have been using flow starts at nearly 10 sec rather than 7 but no double flow for a very short period when flow starts.

If you get signs of consistency by keeping all movements the same as you can try inverting as quickly as you can.

John

-


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Maybe you should try KIS. Place the portafilter over the cannister. Invert in no particular hurry just use "normal" movement speed, don't try and avoid the lop sided load. Tap the side of the portafilter with or against your hand to reduce the lop sided heap. Might take a bit of practice to get that right. Remove the cannister and tap again same way if needed. I use a leveller but a thumb can be used to spread the grinds a bit if needed but don't press down if done that way just move them. Then tamp. There shouldn't be any need to tap down as that will happen twice to some extent - once when the grinds fall into the cannister and again when they fall into the filter basket.
> 
> Each time I have done this I have had perfect pours and 40.x ml out. The 40 didn't vary only the x. No signs of channeling or pin holes etc - as the pour was perfect there shouldn't be any way. Only thing that is bugging me that compared with the grinder I have been using flow starts at nearly 10 sec rather than 7 but no double flow for a very short period when flow starts.
> 
> ...


I have tried the hand tap method, but couldn't get a consistent result, I blame my hand. I guess if I stuck at it, I would figure that out.

I use a levelling tool as well. For me it works best when the grinds are pretty well distributed already (this sentence sounds terrible). If I have to thumb level it I can notice the difference in compaction before levelling. The tool would literally not sit level initially so I'd angle it to distribute the denser side first and even things out.

For what it's worth, first drip is usually 7s for me on a ~30s pour.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I just put my portafilter on the cup, invert, give it a shake and tap on my tamping mat then remove. As long as the coffee is flattish, I then put a Norvin funnel on and distribute with the Londinium tool, tap and flatten with a OCD knockoff.. Then tamp. I do exactly the same when using the EK43, as I use the Niche cup on that as well. The Versalab has a portafilter clamp and makes a mess, but I use the same method on that as well, just without the cup.

As for diminishing returns, I went straight from a La Pavoni to a Speedster so that one's passed me by lol No comparison there


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

Rhys said:


> I just put my portafilter on the cup, invert, give it a shake and tap on my tamping mat then remove. As long as the coffee is flattish, I then put a Norvin funnel on and distribute with the Londinium tool, tap and flatten with a OCD knockoff.. Then tamp. I do exactly the same when using the EK43, as I use the Niche cup on that as well. The Versalab has a portafilter clamp and makes a mess, but I use the same method on that as well, just without the cup.
> 
> As for diminishing returns, I went straight from a La Pavoni to a Speedster so that one's passed me by lol No comparison there


I like how you started that post with "I just...".


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Rhys said:


> I just put my portafilter on the cup, invert, give it a shake and tap on my tamping mat then remove. As long as the coffee is flattish, I then put a Norvin funnel on and distribute with the Londinium tool, tap and flatten with a OCD knockoff.. Then tamp.


This is exactly what I do, except that I shake the grinds as well.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I watched a video of the Niche in use recently. User inverted and did all sort to the cup I assume to get bits to fall out. I expected to see worrying signs of grinds sticking to the cup but have found that they don't so just invert and forget that aspect. I doubt if 0.001g scales would show what's left behind and it doesn't build up. Probably time to wash the cup if it does.

There was a discussion on here about using a distribution tool for tamping. Not a good idea IMHO as the tamp will vary according to how much is in the basket. Thought I would buy a cheap one anyway so looked on amazon. Most have 3 wings but it looked like they would compress grinds more in the centre than the other type which just have 2 slopes, some call them chisel types. So bought one of those. It's set so that the tamper only compresses the grinds a bit more - maybe 1mm probably less. If the heap is lopsided the ridge can be positioned away from the heap.







Might help might not but that's what I do. As it's a bit smaller than the basket it has to be used eccentrically to cover the edges. After use with one bean I use in particular grinds stick to the side of it so I bash the side on my natural rubber tamping mat. They come off and I tip them in. Tiny amount but keeps the mat and tool clean. Wouldn't work with a silicone rubber mat.

Then tamp twice with a cheapo calibrated tamper. It's smaller than the basket so also run that around eccentrically with little downwards pressure on the tamper to iron the edge. That's not working over much of an area so pressure is high.








Might call the entire thing eccentric puck preparation. It also works on my other grinder with the hopper on including it's clumps but different bean. Several shots come out 40.x. The 40 doesn't change. That's in the sage double basket. It was also consistent in a 14g basket I used with the same bean. Also weighing in on the mazzer mini where I could just put the distribution tool on and rotate. Lots of use of a brush to get all of the grinds out though. Niche doesn't need that.

One thing that bugged me about ordering a Niche was grinding into a can. Already done it and it gave different results than straight into a portafilter so stopped. I was using the can off a hand grinder on an SGP as it fits the small baskets fairly well. Leaves a tallish heap. The only reason that there could be a difference is grinds being compressed differently when the basket is loaded this way even after the grinds have been tamped. On Niche I had 30 out into the portafilter and 40 via the can and a late flow start via the can. So looks like I could grind finer via the the can. The late flow could just be down to starting with a single stream rather than 2 turning into one pretty quickly. Why more out - haven't a clue. I only had a bit over 200g to run through the Niche so can try more changes on my next 750g. Can looks favourite but there are several ways I could get the heap down if ground straight into the portafilter

:exit:I think @Hasi summed things up elsewhere as far as puck preparation goes - effectively anything that is done can have some effect on the output. So personally I try and keep it simple and always attempt to do the same thing every time. Maybe the leveller just makes sure I tamp square. Could be that I have convinced myself that using the tamper in an odd way helps but I have done rather a lot of that. Might be a fluke too but a couple of kg that way. Changes do happen but look to be down to bean age / storage so the grinder has to be adjusted if they are significant. If I want to hit 33 to 35 out on the mini adjusting that fine is a right pain. The Niche may need tiny adjustments too but at least the adjustment is smooth and silky.








Monolith - like others I suspect it may use Robur burrs.

John

-


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> for tamping. Not a good idea IMHO as the tamp will vary according to how much is in the basket.
> 
> John
> 
> -


It's a very good idea, just put the same weight in the basket each time. It's very consistent.


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

Regarding level distribution out of the cup: I've had great results with a combination of vertical taps and horizontal shakes. The latter feel a bit awkward, but seem to do it for me.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've managed to loose my ability to use the cup. I decided to stick with a bean I have used daily all of the time I have owned an espresso machine. Late ordering a batch so the Niche wasn't used for a few days. Grinds all over the place now. It's 2nd crack monsooned malibar with a much more careful roast than other suppliers I have used. They are always browner. Clumping has also come back but they are loosely packed. Also had more problems grinding straight into the portafilter - more difficult to get all of the grinds in.

Looks like it's down to the dreaded oil but might also now be getting a bit of static as a tap clears residue off the cup. Initially there was no residue in it at all and that is part of the reason for finding inverting with the cup tricky now.







So poured them out of the cup into the portafilter this morning and tapped the cup to get the residue out. The pour was ok but not as good as it has been. Flow still started late. Not bothered about that as it suggests infusion is more even through the puck.








So leave as is and see what happens after more shots.

Thought I had better set it to my calibration so also had a look inside. A recalibrate turned out to be as supplied. Very thin coating of grinds around the rim of the grind chamber, none noticeable on the bottom and a bit of a plug in the exit. Took a look up the chute with a mirror and saw that some grinds had built up at the top. A cocktail stick dislodged them - 0.16g came out. Also turned the grinder on - great they have managed to do a Sage BE, grinds more or less fall off a cliff even though things are arranged as they are in most grinders - chute in the centre.

John

-


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Flow still started late. Not bothered about that as it suggests infusion is more even through the puck.
> 
> -


How does it suggest that?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Normally flow starts after 6 - 7 secs during infusion when I use the mini. With the tipped in grinds it just about started at 10 sec. That would normally indicate a very very short shot yet it wasn't. Then there is a 2 fold taste change, 1-stronger and 2-a little chocolatey, only way I can put it. Still a pleasant amount of bitterness. Then perfect pours or ones that switch to that very quickly. On the mini I usually get similar to a video I have seen done by @DavecUK, 2 streams that fairly rapidly turn into 1.








Conjecture maybe but I'll see it as I do.

John

-


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Normally flow starts after 6 - 7 secs during infusion when I use the mini. With the tipped in grinds it just about started at 10 sec. That would normally indicate a very very short shot yet it wasn't. Then there is a 2 fold taste change, 1-stronger and 2-a little chocolatey, only way I can put it. Still a pleasant amount of bitterness. Then perfect pours or ones that switch to that very quickly. On the mini I usually get similar to a video I have seen done by @DavecUK, 2 streams that fairly rapidly turn into 1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The shot will be as short or long as you let it run, surely. A longer than normal time between pump activation & first drip just points to a finer grind, if it's too long you may actually have less complete preinfusion, as the grind can be too fine to let the puck permeate properly. So you may have had fuller preinfusion, you may not, there's no way to tell from this info.

What is happening is happening, what is not happening is not happening. Though as you say, if you don't know, you can make up whatever you like.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MWJB said:


> What is happening is happening, what is not happening is not happening. Though as you say, if you don't know, you can make up whatever you like.


Amen - and let the taste buds direct!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I find that the Niche grinds a lot finer than my E5.....the result is that the drips might take 20 seconds to appear, bu then the shot pulls normally in 20 seconds or so.....no explanation needed


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> The shot will be as short or long as you let it run, surely. A longer than normal time between pump activation & first drip just points to a finer grind, if it's too long you may actually have less complete preinfusion, as the grind can be too fine to let the puck permeate properly. So you may have had fuller preinfusion, you may not, there's no way to tell from this info.
> 
> What is happening is happening, what is not happening is not happening. Though as you say, if you don't know, you can make up whatever you like.


Really - always 30sec shot time and same output within a couple of grams. If you do comment perhaps it would be worth considering that the person you are quoting may not be an idiot.

John

-


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Really - always 30sec shot time and same output within a couple of grams. If you do comment perhaps it would be worth considering that the person you are quoting may not be an idiot.
> 
> John
> 
> -


that's a matter of opinion though.......


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Really - always 30sec shot time and same output within a couple of grams. If you do comment perhaps it would be worth considering that the person you are quoting may not be an idiot.
> 
> John
> 
> -


John I actually quite like you, even though your posts are a bit out there, at least your willing to think differently and it's why your not on my Ignore list. However your comment invites the witty riposte.... "perhaps he did before commenting"


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> John I actually quite like you, even though your posts are a bit out there, at least your willing to think differently and it's why your not on my Ignore list. However your comment invites the witty riposte.... "perhaps he did before commenting"


LOL I mostly suffer in silence but ...........

John

-


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ajohn said:


> LOL I mostly suffer in silence but ...........
> 
> John
> 
> -


So do we, ajohn, so do we!

(Meant In the kindest way)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Really - always 30sec shot time and same output within a couple of grams. If you do comment perhaps it would be worth considering that the person you are quoting may not be an idiot.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I made no assumptions, nor comments about your intellect, it's not something I would do.

If you're aiming for a given weight, the time will drift a little over a few shots. But if you aim for a weight & hit it, your shots won't be short nor long. If you're aiming for a fixed time then the weight will drift.

You still offer no clues as to how thorough preinfusion was, nor an objective method for correlating that. How does someone else differentiate between a long time before 1st drip & a grind that is too fine, leading to low extraction, to the next shot, in similar time and fuller preinfusion (leading to significantly more efficient extraction)?

Tell me how you do that, then we can all do that, then compare notes.

Synonyms for conjecture are: 'guess, fancy, imagine, believe'. I can imagine UFOs engaged in a laser battle with dragons, doesn't mean it happened or has obvious, tangible clues that it did/didn't.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

With the Ceado E37S sale being quite slow, I thought I will turn it on again to give it a go again and see which one I prefer. Ou Yang from Square Mile into the hopper and here we go... It's a bean that I could have mistaken with natural Ethiopian quite easily.

Few shots later, I am getting much clearer and sharper shots. Shots from Niche are more rounded, somewhat bland and boring. I didn't need a side by side shot as the difference was just too obvious! I think I am repeating myself, but I cannot bring myself to use E37S daily as my usage is really low (1-2 shots a day) and I rarely get the same bag, which makes the on demand lose its purpose!

If only there was a big flat burr, mess and retention free, single dose grinder...


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Well PPapa, if you ever decide to move on the Niche then my wanted thread will find it a warm welcome...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

filthynines said:


> Well PPapa, if you ever decide to move on the Niche then my wanted thread will find it a warm welcome...


I am certain I would be. I really love the workflow of it and the result in the cup is good, but not the best! I get tasty shots, but after few months of conical profile, the flat is just so much "in your face", which is something I quite like...


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

An embarrassment of riches!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Closer by the day to pulling the trigger on a brand new Niche. However, today it struck me that this heavily over-funded campaign has not yet moved on to direct sales and I can't see a good reason why. The only reason why it should affect me as a consumer is that I don't believe that I would receive s.75 protection through my credit card if everything went bump in the night.

edit: I've received a near-instant response to my query directly to the Niche team, and I've been told that it's a convenience thing due to their satisfaction with the payment platform. A legit reason, if not the most consumer-friendly.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

PPapa said:


> With the Ceado E37S sale being quite slow, I thought I will turn it on again to give it a go again and see which one I prefer. Ou Yang from Square Mile into the hopper and here we go... It's a bean that I could have mistaken with natural Ethiopian quite easily.
> 
> Few shots later, I am getting much clearer and sharper shots. Shots from Niche are more rounded, somewhat bland and boring. I didn't need a side by side shot as the difference was just too obvious! I think I am repeating myself, but I cannot bring myself to use E37S daily as my usage is really low (1-2 shots a day) and I rarely get the same bag, which makes the on demand lose its purpose!
> 
> If only there was a big flat burr, mess and retention free, single dose grinder...


I've noticed this myself, some of my Niche shots are "earthier" as you say more well rounded. But some of the naturals I like, at least subjectively, appeared to shine more on my Super Jolly. So it has left me wondering if a big flat burred single doser would be more up my street - the trouble is I don't have thousands to chuck at a monolith or versalab etc. But just like you I LOVE the workflow of the Niche and it's low retention.

@PPapa can the Caedo be modded to single dose?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

ATZ said:


> I've noticed this myself, some of my Niche shots are "earthier" as you say more well rounded. But some of the naturals I like, at least subjectively, appeared to shine more on my Super Jolly. So it has left me wondering if a big flat burred single doser would be more up my street - the trouble is I don't have thousands to chuck at a monolith or versalab etc. But just like you I LOVE the workflow of the Niche and it's low retention.
> 
> @PPapa can the Caedo be modded to single dose?


I know some people have done it. My mornings are too hasty (aka I'm too sleepy and lazy) to mess with it and I don't think it will be anywhere close to 0g retention. I don't have a head for tinkering and the less fuss, the better for me. Kind of the reason I went for L-R with three LEDs and no PID or adjustable pump (well, you still can control PI).

The retention is minimal when run with the hopper, but there's probably a gram or two that would benefit from purging every morning.

I asked Niche last night and they said they are focusing on Niche and flat burr isn't in their plans right now.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've been weighing in with "zero retention" on a mazzer mini for some time. The same can probably done with any flat burr grinder that uses a funnel rather than a chute. It's tedious though. Results as far as shot's go are dead consistent including time to flow. I mention 6 to 7 secs as it always says 7 when I look at the timer. The method is a little different to the videos showing a lens hood puffer being used. I also had to work on preparation to get that level of consistency and a consistent output. The mini is designed to grind without generating heat maybe that is why I am not noticing earthy notes creeping in on Niche but the Sage grinders I have used did warm grinds up.

What I am finding with Niche on a DB is that taste does change according to when flow starts. I'm rather partial to when that is later than what I am used to and it goes straight into a perfect pour. At the moment over a couple of shots I am getting a late flow, same style of taste but bit of dripping coming out followed by 2 streams rather briefly that turn into one. Difference purely down to what I do with the grinds which funnily enough isn't a lot different to the mini behaved.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> .
> 
> What I am finding with Niche on a DB is that taste does change according to when flow starts. I'm rather partial to when that is later than what I am used to and it goes straight into a perfect pour. At the moment over a couple of shots I am getting a late flow, same style of taste but bit of dripping coming out followed by 2 streams rather briefly that turn into one. Difference purely down to what I do with the grinds which funnily enough isn't a lot different to the mini behaved.
> 
> ...


How is the taste changing?

I can see some commentary about the drips and the spouts this doesn't tell me much though. Your describing ho a shot pours, not how it tastes.

Presumably these changes are not a result of changing the brew recipe ? I don't keep up with all your posts so dint know if your weighing out or not.

You may be getting "zero" retention out of the Mazzer mini, but not all zero retention is equal ...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

My opinion that the burr profile/type will have a bigger impact than the heat, but then I never measured the temperature of the grounds.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ATZ said:


> I've noticed this myself, some of my Niche shots are "earthier" as you say more well rounded. But some of the naturals I like, at least subjectively, appeared to shine more on my Super Jolly. So it has left me wondering if a big flat burred single doser would be more up my street - the trouble is I don't have thousands to chuck at a monolith or versalab etc. But just like you I LOVE the workflow of the Niche and it's low retention.
> 
> @PPapa can the Caedo be modded to single dose?


Are you adjusting the recipe between the SJ and the Niche ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Got a Niche at home at the mo thanks @dfk41.

First impression are, what a re great job in terms of a simple to use, kitchen and cabinet friendly grinder.

Blows the Sage grinder on the Oracle out the water for espresso (as one would hope).

From memory so much easier to use than the mignon (i hate the grind adjustment on these).

Only down a couple of Filters so far, but tasting good. Will do a few more this week.


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## Paul K (May 11, 2018)

ajohn said:


> At the moment over a couple of shots I am getting a late flow, same style of taste but bit of dripping coming out followed by 2 streams rather briefly that turn into one. Difference purely down to what I do with the grinds.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I have the same, late flow, 2 streams into one. There is a difference in the cup when I compare it to the Sage Pro, in that I get better taste and flavour from the Niche.

With the Niche the flavours just pop and I can explore the complexity of the coffee mouth feel. Given I have only had it a few weeks I have not ran 2 of the same coffees through it yet, due to working my way through the S/O's. However I have a bag of beans that are my staple day to day to get through, so it will be interesting to see if there is any difference assuming the roasting was the same to the previous bag I had before.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you adjusting the recipe between the SJ and the Niche ?


By recipe do you mean weight of beans and ratios @Mrboots2u ??

In which case, no. I'm just adjusting grind size to get similar output. Usually 2:1 Or 2.5:1 output to coffee.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ATZ said:


> By recipe do you mean weight of beans and ratios @Mrboots2u ??
> 
> In which case, no. I'm just adjusting grind size to get similar output. Usually 2:1 Or 2.5:1 output to coffee.


Then adjust it and see what happens.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Then adjust it and see what happens.


And this is where things get messy and confusing lol


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## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

I had a family event over the weekend and got the chance to make around 20 coffees for guests.

After making the first few coffees, my brother and I settled on the workflow you can see in the video below..(we didn't have time to film on the weekend; this was filmed this evening... Hence the wine)






Some other observations by my brother; who hadn't played with the Niche and hadn't heard of the grinder until I told him about it..

- it's really quiet compared to his grinder (compak k3)

- it's pretty consistent with single dosing (I think he means that the dose variance is quite low between grinding shots)

- it does require distribution (shaking or stirring) of the grounds before tamping, otherwise output flow can vary a considerably.

- once we kept the workflow the same, the shot times and output weights were pretty consistent.

- taste was on par with my previous grinder (HG-1)

It really was a pleasure to use the Niche for the party. As has been mentioned before, the ability to grind into the cup and transfer, means you can grind whenever you have a free moment; whether you do it when you are steaming milk or waiting for the ext. I will say that I pre dosed my dry weight into canisters (just like the one I used in the video) which saved a lot of time, and meant the scales could stay on the drip tray for weighing output.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

suvartet said:


> I had a family event over the weekend and got the chance to make around 20 coffees for guests.
> 
> After making the first few coffees, my brother and I settled on the workflow you can see in the video below..(we didn't have time to film on the weekend; this was filmed this evening... Hence the wine)


I like the symmetry in your videos. Out of interest how do you film?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

suvartet said:


> I had a family event over the weekend and got the chance to make around 20 coffees for guests.
> 
> After making the first few coffees, my brother and I settled on the workflow you can see in the video below..(we didn't have time to film on the weekend; this was filmed this evening... Hence the wine)


I'm finding much the same.

I weigh beans in to the container I have always used. Small stainless pudding mould off amazon. It's easier to get beans out if I overshoot. I can also use this for the next dose if I'm making more than one drink and grind those while the other is pouring.

Then use the Niche and it's grind cup. More or less given up checking the weight that comes out as it's bean consistent. Often 0.1g less but no build up. This could be down to the containers not weighing some exact figure ending in a 1/10g.

I didn't get static initially but now get a touch. Tiny amount but grinds stick to the container. Go rid of with a moderate tap onto the tamping mat. It's interesting to see what happens if it's tapped hard or several times. I then stir the grinds with a kebab stick aiming to redistribute them. Currently this isn't causing clumps.

Then the usual - portafilter over and invert noting the angle I do it at. Angle the lot to suite and tap on the tamping mat to level the heap. The can is left clean, no sticking grinds.

Then distribution tool, tamp and my odd polish. The heap is low enough to use the distribution tool directly.

It's given decent pours over several shots. Bit of dripping at the end of 10 sec infusion, 2 flows quickly going to one.

Not done enough to see how consistent the output is. Getting the 2nd tap to do what I want every time will probably need more practice.

John

-


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

TECHNICAL GRINDING QUESTION

we're off to my mum's for Xmas and are taking our Niche with us, along with some light and medium roast beans.

There is only a French Press there.

If I want to grind for French Press can anyone tell me how far I need to turn the NICHE dial from where I have it set for or espresso grind?

I'm guessing French Press we don't need to be so precise as for espresso, but I'm wondering if I need to make a 360 degree rotation, or more, or less...

Thanks in advance for your helpful replies.

Robert


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

rdpx said:


> TECHNICAL GRINDING QUESTION
> 
> we're off to my mum's for Xmas and are taking our Niche with us, along with some light and medium roast beans.
> 
> ...


Here you go:



Stevebee said:


> For me I use the following :
> 
> Espresso. 20
> 
> ...


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

PPapa said:


> Here you go:


Thanks. So that's about 270 degrees CCW?

now I need to go read up about French Press!


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

It's a post by @Stevebee, he might be able to clarify whether zero is the calibration mark or 0 of the dial.


----------



## suvartet (Aug 5, 2018)

M_H_S said:


> I like the symmetry in your videos. Out of interest how do you film?


I have shelves mounted above the coffee bench.

I found a small piece of Perspex that I place on the lower shelf so it juts out; think diving board at a pool.

I rest my phone on that (counter balanced on the shelf with some mugs) so it points directly down at the bench area.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> It's a post by @Stevebee, he might be able to clarify whether zero is the calibration mark or 0 of the dial.


It's zero on the dial. V60/filter is at the calibration triangle.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

rdpx said:


> TECHNICAL GRINDING QUESTION
> 
> we're off to my mum's for Xmas and are taking our Niche with us, along with some light and medium roast beans.
> 
> ...


Cool looking French press recipe from @MWJB here, I've had a few long steep aeropress brews and they're amazing so looking forward to trying this one out!

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?47712-Which-pour-over-method


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Jon_Foster said:


> Cool looking French press recipe from @MWJB here, I've had a few long steep aeropress brews and they're amazing so looking forward to trying this one out!
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?47712-Which-pour-over-method


Yikes steeping for that long seems to go against everything I've read about French Press....

It's only for two of us!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

rdpx said:


> Yikes steeping for that long seems to go against everything I've read about French Press....
> 
> It's only for two of us!


The amount relates to how many people, not necessarily the time.

Smaller pot, finer grind, no insulation can be shorter. You can go as short as you like so long as you like what comes out, but the point being you are extremely unlikely to over-extract & for a big gathering (as long as you can keep the heat in with an insulated pot) you can prepare well ahead of time.

Almost everything that has been written about French press brewing (coarse grind, short steep) is myth.


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

The high pitched whine is back on my Niche. I took all the easily accessible parts off to see if it was anything related to the burrs etc but its still there.











Anyone have any idea what this could be? The pitch of the sound sometimes changes when its running as well. Doesn't seem to be affecting the working of the grinder but its a bit of a concern.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

mctrials23 said:


> The high pitched whine is back on my Niche. I took all the easily accessible parts off to see if it was anything related to the burrs etc but its still there.
> 
> Anyone have any idea what this could be? The pitch of the sound sometimes changes when its running as well. Doesn't seem to be affecting the working of the grinder but its a bit of a concern.


Can't really hear a whine, there is a faint metallic tinkling - does this still happen if you remove the grinds cup?


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Can't really hear a whine, there is a faint metallic tinkling - does this still happen if you remove the grinds cup?


Yeah it's exactly the same without the grind cup. It's quite hard to isolate the sound I am talking about due to the general noise of the grinder.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

stand it on a tea towel (folded up a few times), does it still do it?


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> stand it on a tea towel (folded up a few times), does it still do it?


Yep. Its definitely not a vibration noise.

Is this video any better sound wise?


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Seems fine to me


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Is it the noise that sounds a bit like someone hoovering in the background?


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> Is it the noise that sounds a bit like someone hoovering in the background?


Yeah, the high pitched noise. It hasn't always sounded like this and the pitch does change sometimes as you run the grinder.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think the best thing to do is ask Niche....


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

If the sound it makes whilst grinding has changed since it first arrived I'd speak to Niche, but mine has always sounded the way yours does in the second video and it works fine.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

cold war kid said:


> If the sound it makes whilst grinding has changed since it first arrived I'd speak to Niche, but mine has always sounded the way yours does in the second video and it works fine.


I think it's worth remembering that there is a motor (not that small) inside spinning aound 10,000 rpm, then having it's rpm reduced via a planetary gearbox (and thus torque multiplied) by more than 30:1. It's why it can chew through beans without slowing down and has no trouble with light roasts. I suspect you are hearing that 10K rpm sound. I'm still using the American test grinder and that's running at 50Hz on a stepped down 106V instead of 120V....but I will have a closer listen to it. If indeed this is what your faintly hearing then I suspect it must be normal.


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> I think it's worth remembering that there is a motor (not that small) inside spinning aound 10,000 rpm, then having it's rpm reduced via a planetary gearbox (and thus torque multiplied) by more than 30:1. It's why it can chew through beans without slowing down and has no trouble with light roasts. I suspect you are hearing that 10K rpm sound. I'm still using the American test grinder and that's running at 50Hz on a stepped down 106V instead of 120V....but I will have a closer listen to it. If indeed this is what your faintly hearing then I suspect it must be normal.


Any particular reason why you've opted to stick with the US version on a transformer instead of reverting to the UK version now all the testing has finished?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Any particular reason why you've opted to stick with the US version on a transformer instead of reverting to the UK version now all the testing has finished?


It's actually one of the longest running grinders in the field (Mar 18) built on production tooling.. Useful to see if longer term issues crop up and the burrs are fully run in. Luckily I am a heavy user.

I never stopped testing, even though the review was completed.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

mctrials23 said:


> Yeah, the high pitched noise. It hasn't always sounded like this and the pitch does change sometimes as you run the grinder.


I did not believe Mine sounded the same. From the video, it's very high pitch. I had to turn the volume right up. Some people I know wouldn't hear that...

Anyway, I just tried mine, and there is a high pitch tone in the mix. It's not loud though.


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

It's quite noticeable and the video doesn't highlight it that well. Gonna ask the Niche guys if they know what it is at any rate.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I am not going to have a Niche Christmas this year - mine is now away to @fatwhite who seems to be a decent lad!

I think my hate towards Niche grew rapidly once I compared it to a big flat burr grinder. I haven't had a chance to compare it against EK43S, but I now see why people didn't like the idea of doing it themselves. I just tried to justify not getting another grinder... it didn't work!


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

Humble video about transferring and distributing grinds:


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

0.03g variance....


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> 0.03g variance....


Usually is smaller than 0.05g if you dont't switch coffee or move a big step in grind size. If you do so maybe it will get about 0.1 which you can sort adding an extra coffee bean.

No rdt and no problem at all with static, the cup and ocd are perfectly clean as you can see and there were always some grounds sticking on the ocd with my former (hoppered) grinders. If you don't stir grinds then you will have static and it will be trickier to transfer the grinds to the portafilter and a lot of will remain stucked to the ocd.

and... two taps are more than enough, even better than 4. Four taps like in the video seem to be too much









These days I'll try the naked pf with and without ocd, it does not add too much hassle to my routine but I'm a bit sceptic about if there is any advantage using it. You need an already leveled coffee bed prior to use it unless you want to have channeling so... Maybe it just give you a better feel to start tamping leveled.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

tocateclas said:


> Usually is smaller than 0.05g if you dont't switch coffee or move a big step in grind size. If you do so maybe it will get about 0.1 which you can sort adding an extra coffee bean.
> 
> .


+/-0.05 is about a quarter of a bean, you can get 0.00 on occasion, but neither are typical. You can only dose wholebean to 0.05g at 1 stdev (which will creep up to +/- 0.1g given enough measurements), the difference between what goes in & comes out is bigger than that.


----------



## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

PPapa said:


> I am not going to have a Niche Christmas this year - mine is now away to @fatwhite who seems to be a decent lad!
> 
> I think my hate towards Niche grew rapidly once I compared it to a big flat burr grinder. I haven't had a chance to compare it against EK43S, but I now see why people didn't like the idea of doing it themselves. I just tried to justify not getting another grinder... it didn't work!


Can totally understand that, I think anyone that likes that more punchy flavour from big flats could potentially be disappointed.


----------



## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

Oops!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Grahamg said:


> Can totally understand that, I think anyone that likes that more punchy flavour from big flats could potentially be disappointed.


It makes good espresso. Does it make it comparable to a commercial grinder with a different burr set and a totally different home market.......

Most of the nuance you talk about will be lost on a chunk of people that will drink milk drinks or won't weight out etc etc.

Been pretty impressed with the brewed it makes. Would be a comparable to the hand grinders most people use for brewed. It is opens up easy filter for people in one grinder then that's a real bonus.

Whether the success carries on will deoend on the bee price point. I suspect £500 is too much for the casual users that this now needs to generate more volume sales.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> It makes good espresso. Does it make it comparable to a commercial grinder with a different burr set and a totally different home market.......
> 
> Most of the nuance you talk about will be lost on a chunk of people that will drink milk drinks or won't weight out etc etc.
> 
> ...


The world is your oyster......the States seem to be starting to clamour for this now......Niche is never going to be a high volume product. it does not need to be. it was a design project that was going to make money, and it will


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> The world is your oyster......the States seem to be starting to clamour for this now......Niche is never going to be a high volume product. it does not need to be. it was a design project that was going to make money, and it will


It will need to go beyond the forum market at some point though to keep going.

I wish them the best of luck, be interesting to see how the price holds once supply and demand actually meet.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> It will need to go beyond the forum market at some point though to keep going.
> 
> I wish them the best of luck, be interesting to see how the price holds once supply and demand actually meet.


check out home-barista or coffee snobs for your answer.....you are obviously a Remoaner, not realising there is a world beyond Europe....LOL


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'm glad some one used the comment "*could* potentially be disappointed". I have had shots out of my Niche that have way more punch than usual so much so that I could clearly use less coffee. My only problem with it is what to do to always get that. What I am currently doing produces results that are very similar to my previous weighing in set up. One change really - I don't stir the crema. It gone back to how it was when I was grinding the same beans in my BE. It tended to have a rather odd taste out of my mini.

Where I may fall out with NIche is consistency. I don't weigh out just check weigh. Previously I got 1g of variation that would usually grow towards the end of a can of beans indicating that the grinder setting needed changing. I'd usually extend the shot time by up to 3 secs before adjusting again. At one point the first shot of the day needed adjusting as well but that seems to have gone as the burrs ran in.

Seems that there may be some people who think that it's possible to find out what a grinder can do in a couple of days even when it's rather different to others.

John

-


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Where I may fall out with NIche is consistency. I don't weigh out just check weigh. Previously I got 1g of variation that would usually grow towards the end of a can of beans indicating that the grinder setting needed changing. I'd usually extend the shot time by up to 3 secs before adjusting again. At one point the first shot of the day needed adjusting as well but that seems to have gone as the burrs ran in.
> 
> -


Im unclear as to what you are saying. You are getting 1g variation in dose from what you are putting in ? So you single dose 18g but only get 17g in the cup?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Im unclear as to what you are saying. You are getting 1g variation in dose from what you are putting in ? So you single dose 18g but only get 17g in the cup?


There would be no point in posting if I meant that. Weighing in via my mini has been giving 33 to 34g out in 30 sec. 14g in with no variation shown on 0.1g resolution scales. The hardest part is getting all grinds out - tedious and setting a mini that accurately is rather difficult. In other words I might say ok to 35 or 36 out but expect the same low variation. The key to achieving it is puck preparation consistency so I'll try anything I can think of to get similar results from my Niche or maybe put up with more variation - all that matters is the taste of what comes out and for that more output variation is acceptable.

I haven't use my Niche enough to come to any firm conclusions. At 3 shots a day and having 3 different beans about one of which is in a different grinder means that will take some time. Things can change. For instance initially there was zero static. There is a bit now which means I am preparing the grinds in a different way. I really do mean a bit as well. The mini less it's static screen produced a lot more but didn't clump. Niche doesn't either. Good sign. I also have good reason to believe that conical can produce more consistent grind results than flat. Based on a Sage grinder that didn't give 2 hoots about the weight of beans in the hopper once it had settled down.

I have used 2 different beans in the Niche. One thing is pretty clear. Either tune for one and accept what comes out for the other or change the grinder setting each time. Not exactly surprising really but in my case as one is rather oily using the other one may change what comes out next time the oily one is used. I did have that problem with Sage which is why I finished up with 2 and have tended to only use mm in one of my grinders.

John

-


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Sometimes I read stuff on the forum . . . and wonder what I'm doing here.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Sometimes I read stuff on the forum . . . and wonder what I'm doing here.


I'm with you. One needs to evolve to selectively read.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> Sometimes I read stuff on the forum . . . and wonder what I'm doing here.


Me and you both


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MildredM said:


> Sometimes I read stuff on the forum . . . and wonder what I'm doing here.


How else are you going to know if it's a flat or conical monolith day today?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> There would be no point in posting if I meant that.
> 
> -


But what you posted came across as that.

Less words more clarity please.


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> But what you posted came across as that.
> 
> Less words more clarity please.


To be honest JUST less words would be an improvment!!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

My name is John and I am a wordaholic


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> But what you posted came across as that.
> 
> Less words more clarity please.


I am more in favour of more words and less clarity. He has standards to maintain!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> But what you posted came across as that.
> 
> Less words more clarity please.


Really



> I don't weigh* out* just check weigh. Previously I got 1g of variation that would usually grow towards the end of a can of beans indicating that the grinder setting needed changing.


John

-


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

And I can't help myself most of the time


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

My white Niche arrived three days ago, so it's probably too early to draw any firm conclusions before it's properly broken in. Already however I can tell it certainly has a much better build quality than the sage smart grinder pro (I appreciate this is unlikely to surprise anyone). I prefer the quality feel of the heavy toggle switch and sturdy metal construction to the plastic buttons of the SGP. It just feels a lot nicer to use.

The amount of crema has increased by about 50% in a double shot compared to the SGP using the exact same beans from the same bag. I'm not sure why this would be, does anyone know? The flavour in the cup is a lot smoother and creamier, with better flavour separation. I can distinguish more flavours from my coffee since switching to the Niche, and my shots seem to taste generally better. My wife (who is not a coffee nerd) actually asked whether I had bought some new beans, as her coffee tasted so much better since switching to the Niche.

The grinds are fluffy and have almost zero clumps with the beans I am currently using (I haven't used any others yet as have only had it for a few days). It's very easy to use the grind cup in my stock 58mm basket. You just invert and tap to level.

As well as the improvement in construction and grind quality, it is far quieter than the SGP, and the tone of the grinder when in use is much softer and less harsh. It's a lot nicer to listen to early in the morning! This is obviously also personal preference but I think it looks really good in the white finish compared to most coffee grinders I have seen. It's far nicer in the flesh than the photos make it appear.

I guess I was expecting that I would be able to see a difference when comparing a £450 Niche to a £160 SGP, but I am really surprised the changes were so noticeable. For anyone looking for a marked upgrade from the SGP I heartily recommend it.

Henry


----------



## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Been using the Niche from a Gaggia MDF since November. Some first surprises - heavier and better build quality than expected, quieter than expected, it seems to make more of a coffee aroma when grinding, not sure why but that was a nice surprise.

Getting used to weighing beans, (and using less beans) and using the steel cup - that's different but weighing really helps me with consistency. No creeping adjustment that i have noticed.

Crema seems to be noticeably more, and much much easier to fine tune a grind. I give it a little tap on the head before grinding and about 0.05g may be released from the previous grind.

Easy to clean and nice to get a little brush included to do it with.

I'm not sure i like the on-off switch, it's not sleek like the rest of the Niche, it sticks out to the right and easily caught. It's ok if you are right handed and you have nothing close to the grinder on that side. Almost all utensils have switches on the front, a minor niggle...

It was a bit of a leap of faith investing, but very happy with it.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've given up checking the weight that actually comes out on mine. I'll probably check now and again but to be honest there doesn't seem to be any point.

One thing has been puzzling me about shots produced via my mini compared with the niche. I have been tuning for the same ratio and weight of grinds in. Via the mini turn the portafilter over after a shot and the puck drops out leaving a clean filter basket, maybe a few grinds. The niche needs a moderate knock and leaves more behind, patches of grinds.Then there is the late flow. So last night I reduced the dose from 14 to 13.5g and twice today to 13g.







The change in taste is spectacular. Flow is still late.

John

-


----------



## randyr5 (Nov 13, 2018)

ajohn said:


> I've given up checking the weight that actually comes out on mine. I'll probably check now and again but to be honest there doesn't seem to be any point.


Same here. I checked it quite a bit in the beginning, but it was almost always a 0.1 gram or less difference, so now I weigh, grind and go.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> I've given up checking the weight that actually comes out on mine. I'll probably check now and again but to be honest there doesn't seem to be any point.
> 
> One thing has been puzzling me about shots produced via my mini compared with the niche. I have been tuning for the same ratio and weight of grinds in. Via the mini turn the portafilter over after a shot and the puck drops out leaving a clean filter basket, maybe a few grinds. The niche needs a moderate knock and leaves more behind, patches of grinds.Then there is the late flow. So last night I reduced the dose from 14 to 13.5g and twice today to 13g.
> 
> ...


Yes reducing a dose and aiming for the same output will extract more and effect taste.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yes reducing a dose and aiming for the same output will extract more and effect taste.


Boy oh boy here's me for ever playing with ratios and it seems that I wasn't aware of that. - according to you anyway.

John

-


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Boy oh boy here's me for ever playing with ratios and it seems that I wasn't aware of that. - according to you anyway.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Play fair, you did make it sound like some kind of discovery. Maybe try to be clearer in what/why you do what you do, rather than second guess what others think.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Play fair, you did make it sound like some kind of discovery. Maybe try to be clearer in what/why you do what you do, rather than second guess what others think.


I mentioned it due to people who mention this and that compared with flat burr grinders. Something to try. If the change hadn't been rather extraordinary I wouldn't have mentioned it at all.

Ratios. Shots are manual at the moment to close to 33g out. Ratio with 14g in is 2.357, close to what I usually use with mm. Cutting the dose to 13.5g changes that to 2.444. Shot time circa 33secs - I adjusted the grinder a touch when I dropped the dose.

Taste wise as I had been brewing with this bean on the mini was fine with 33 to 36 out and also if 27 was topped up to 33 manaully. At some point when that happened I'd adjust the grinder. The reason for mentioning to 36 out is not variation - just difficulty in setting the mini any closer. The number in my mind is always 35.

Taste out of the Niche using 14g has been a bit lacking at times but acceptable. Dropping the dose by 0.5g bought what I look for from mm with bells on it. It has done for several shots now so shouldn't be a fluke. 13g isn't looking so good as a puck stuck ( DB) but prep may have something to do with that as the pour was a bit off.

One other explanation could be that I was using too much coffee in the basket using the mini. I don't think so. That can do strange things.

John

-


----------



## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

ajohn said:


> Ratios. Shots are manual at the moment to close to 33g out. Ratio with 14g in is 2.357, close to what I usually use with mm. Cutting the dose to 13.5g changes that to 2.444.


Hi John,

Happy New Year!

My presumption is that your ratios refer to the weight of the espresso poured as a multiple of the weight of grinds, am I correct? I'm wondering why such precise ratios are necessary and how you measure to that degree of accuracy please?

Gerry


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

GerryM said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> ...


Tongue in cheek - the decimal places came from my calculator. The figures came from my scales. In practice bean weights will be as stated or 0.1g higher and weight out may have some decimal points.

John

-


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

UPDATE

for anyone wondering, we took our Niche away for the holidays and found that rotating the dial about 180 degrees coarser from our usual espresso machine setting point gave a very nice cup of French Press.


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

Hello everyone! I just wanted to post that I've designed a 3D printed PF stand and funnel for the Niche Zero.

The PF Stand - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3328072

The Funnel - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3144738

As I have a Breville (Sage) Dual Boiler, I've sized the lug holes for the Breville PF. But, its customizable. You can use the Thingiverse Customizer to make a custom version for whatever PF you want. The PF Stand has a hole in the bottom sized for a 10mm diameter / 3mm thick circular magnet. This magnet is to help hold the stand down to prevent it from tipping over due to the weight of the PF.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

This is cool! Will have get one made up when my niche gets delivered


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

jaffro said:


> @richwade80 I use the same setting as I'd use for pourover, so keep an eye on everyone's recommendations for kalita/v60 etc. At the moment I'm at around the left hinge (or perhaps towards 0) for pourover and Puck Puck, but this bean needs to be fairly course. I imagine if it was a bean needing a finer grind you'd be somewhere between 50 and the right hand hinge.
> 
> Haven't used my AP other than for Puck Puck, so not sure! Maybe around the 40 mark?


Sorry to bring up an old comment, I've looked through this thread for an AeroPress setting but couldn't find one - is 40 a good setting?!


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## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

Inglorious Alf said:


> Sorry to bring up an old comment, I've looked through this thread for an AeroPress setting but couldn't find one - is 40 a good setting?!


Answered my own question - I'm just on the coarser side of the calibration mark (63?) and AeroPress is tasting good on a 2 minute brew. I'm an AeroPress noob though so this may well need refining.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jchung said:


> Hello everyone! I just wanted to post that I've designed a 3D printed PF stand and funnel for the Niche Zero.
> 
> The PF Stand - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3328072
> 
> ...


I've started grinding into the portafilter having done a number with the grinds can. Suspect I'll stick with into the portafilter but need to do more shots. I'm using a chinese funnel. Turns out to be useful as it sits in the basket and when it's removed it leaves a space around the heap of grinds making it easier to us a levelling tool after the grinds have been banged down.







Banged and not tapped as I give it several until they can't go down any further. They finish up more or less flush with the top of the basket.

I have been wondering about a portafilter holder. 3D print or trip to the local saw mills. My immediate thought on keeping it in place was a magnet. Thanks for indication that it can work. Will be some time before I can do something though.

John

-


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## Ktmatt (Jan 5, 2019)

jchung: That's really cool - I'm hoping that Niche will come out with the accessories like this in the near future.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

jchung said:


> The Funnel - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3144738
> 
> As I have a Breville (Sage) Dual Boiler, I've sized the lug holes for the Breville PF. But, its customizable. You can use the Thingiverse Customizer to make a custom version for whatever PF you want. The PF Stand has a hole in the bottom sized for a 10mm diameter / 3mm thick circular magnet. This magnet is to help hold the stand down to prevent it from tipping over due to the weight of the PF.
> 
> []


The funnel looks really good.

Are there commercial places that do 3rd printing based on a design or would you consider doing it? I've got a sage dual boiler as well.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I might be wrong, but I thought @DavecUK in his review gave good reasons as to why it was better to grind into the cup and not into the pf. Now, these latest additions might knock out his argument or endorse it


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I might be wrong, but I thought @DavecUK in his review gave good reasons as to why it was better to grind into the cup and not into the pf. Now, these latest additions might knock out his argument or endorse it


Anything I mention at the moment are things that I am trying. No harm in that but if and when I do settle on one way of using Niche I'll say so.

If I just grind into the portafilter I get a huge heap of grounds that's difficult to handle. I get round that by tilting the portafilter a bit and then moving it around to keep the heap lower and more even. The can removes the need for coping with that.

John

-


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Anything I mention at the moment are things that I am trying. No harm in that but if and when I do settle on one way of using Niche I'll say so.
> 
> If I just grind into the portafilter I get a huge heap of grounds that's difficult to handle. I get round that by tilting the portafilter a bit and then moving it around to keep the heap lower and more even. The can removes the need for coping with that.
> 
> ...


I was not having a go at you! Plenty of others have talked or are doing the same thing. I thought there was more to the argument than simply finding a way of holding the pf in place. If you grind into the cup then do not stir and simply tip in then you are not getting the best either. I cannot be bothered to trawl all the way through but I am sure static came into the equation somewhere


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I suppose because it doesn't compact the grinds in any way and then breaks them up, they are more statically charged, becoming very fluffy and going well above the rims of the PF basket and also away from it.

The cup allow it to happen, due to its height. As soon as we stir it, the static charges dissipate and the grinds compact and settle.

That's my understanding and is what I observed so far.


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## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

Ktmatt said:


> jchung: That's really cool - I'm hoping that Niche will come out with the accessories like this in the near future.


I've sent the photos to Niche via Facebook, but they didn't give any indication that they were interested in making their own. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I am wondering about the gap around the inside of the PF when I use the cup direct onto the PF.

I'd still grind into the cup, but might either stir in the cup or PF with the funnel in place to catch the grinds and distribute a bit more evenly (perhaps).


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## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> The funnel looks really good.
> 
> Are there commercial places that do 3rd printing based on a design or would you consider doing it? I've got a sage dual boiler as well.


Plenty of places that will 3D print a design you give them. But IÂ'm not aware of the ones in the UK. Thingiverse has links to order a print.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I was not having a go at you! Plenty of others have talked or are doing the same thing. I thought there was more to the argument than simply finding a way of holding the pf in place. If you grind into the cup then do not stir and simply tip in then you are not getting the best either. I cannot be bothered to trawl all the way through but I am sure static came into the equation somewhere


Lol I didn't think you were but I have mentioned a couple of things I have tried and wanted to stress that they are just things to try if some one wants to.

Some one else has mentioned static in a post after mine. It's way way less than I was getting weighing in using flat burrs even though I found a way of getting rid of a lot of it.

I am getting some with Niche as there is a small extremely light patch on the body up behind the "nozzle". That's using the can. Initially none clung to the can but after a few grinds it did but again marginal. They can be caused to fall off by simply tapping the can on the tamping mat. All comes out when they are loaded into the filter basket so static appears to have gone. At times a little bit may stick to the base of the can - a simple tap knocks it off.








The reason for the slight static seems to be this that builds up over a couple of shots - don't get carried away about it. Hardly any weight of coffee at all and if it built up and fell off etc I'd know by now.









John

-


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I thought about how Johns last post made me feel....and Rod expresses it better than I ever could









[video=youtube;NzlG28B-R8Y]


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

Rhys said:


> [...] the EK has its own postcode..


EK43 8IG, to be exact.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I thought about how Johns last post made me feel....and Rod expresses it better than I ever could
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL Here's me thinking you may have met some D&D engineers.

Ffrom the photo some might think what an uneven grind -







no some are just a lot closer.

John

-


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## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

Here is a photo grinding into the PF w/ the stand and funnel. Some times there is more static and stray grinds than others. So I think I may just start using RDT. I will say that the distribution in the PF certain feels better than when using the cup. And the extraction takes about 5s longer.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

jchung said:


> Here is a photo grinding into the PF w/ the stand and funnel. Some times there is more static and stray grinds than others. So I think I may just start using RDT. I will say that the distribution in the PF certain feels better than when using the cup. And the extraction takes about 5s longer.
> 
> View attachment 38431


Didn't think RDT was advised with this grinder.


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## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> Didn't think RDT was advised with this grinder.


I always interpreted it as RDT was unnecessary because of the cup. But depending on the bean and humidity, when not using the cup, it seems RDT would sometimes be necessary.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

jchung said:


> I always interpreted it as RDT was unnecessary because of the cup. But depending on the bean and humidity, when not using the cup, it seems RDT would sometimes be necessary.


Hey @jchung @DavecUK definitely advised against using RDT.

Obviously your choice but wouldn't want to see you bork your new grinder!!


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

What does RDT stand for?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ross droplet technique


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

Now that people are settling on routines: how often do you take the grinder apart and brush it out?


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## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

ChrisBy said:


> Now that people are settling on routines: how often do you take the grinder apart and brush it out?


Once per month or so here.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

jchung said:


> I always interpreted it as RDT was unnecessary because of the cup. But depending on the bean and humidity, when not using the cup, it seems RDT would sometimes be necessary.


Simple: use the cup.

I've used RDT in the past, on other grinders. Personally, I'd advise against it: because of he humidity you are adding, you'll get coffee accumulating / compacting at the bottom of the burr. Also, and I don't know whether this was related or not, the burrs were blemished upon inspection. It wasn't rust, but they definitely got blemished. Whether it was due to RDT or not I'm not sure, but to me, the correlation there was strong. And all I did was to simply use an atomiser, just gently moisturising the beans.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ChrisBy said:


> Now that people are settling on routines: how often do you take the grinder apart and brush it out?


Once a month.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

^^^^^ Likewise


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Simple: use the cup.
> 
> I've used RDT in the past, on other grinders. Personally, I'd advise against it: because of he humidity you are adding, you'll get coffee accumulating / compacting at the bottom of the burr. Also, and I don't know whether this was related or not, the burrs were blemished upon inspection. It wasn't rust, but they definitely got blemished. Whether it was due to RDT or not I'm not sure, but to me, the correlation there was strong. And all I did was to simply use an atomiser, just gently moisturising the beans.


I think that understanding of burrs and the materials used within them is important. They will be using one of the many variants of what is called "tool steel". Due to their composition they tend not to be corrosion resistant and when they are corrosion resistant it's limited and sometimes at the expense of other desirable properties.. The Link below gives some easy to digest details.

https://www.hunker.com/12003442/the-differences-in-mild-steel-tool-steel-and-stainless-steel

In my youth I almost started a career in precision engineering and I worked for a company called Sci Mech doing precision work on a range of exotic materials, much of it was for Ministry of defence contracts. I had to give up because I was allergic to the cutting lubricants (a blessing in disguise). During my time I learnt about the different materials and tool steels. Someone I think once said on the forum (I won't mention who) that grinder burrs would be better made out of Stainless.. Well my cutting tools on the lather made out of "tool steel" would happily chew through stainless steel, even silver steel and Titanium and hard Titanium alloys (unless you let it glaze over) anyone who has turned titanium will know what I mean. Tool steel can keep an edge long after any other material would have blunted and is very hard.

These properties unfortunately come at the expense of corrosion resistance. This isn't normally a problem in the environments in which they are used and when surrounded by cutting oil...but in a grinder, moisture isn't really desirable. It's also worth always washing your hands before handling burrs and human sweat is surprisingly corrosive. I tend to clean my burrs with a toothbrush and perhaps a bit of 99% Isopropyl alcohol. After cleaning like that I always grind about 20g through because I have stripped all the protective oils from the burrs. Normally though a good wipe with kitchen towel and brush with a clean old toothbrush takes off more than enough oil without the need for alcohol. Then the toothbrush can be washed and left to air dry for next time.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I am yet to see a good looking pour from a Niche when ground straight into the portafilter. I did try it when I had a Niche and it wasn't looking good. My money is on poorer distribution.

It looks like some people are just looking for a problem to solve - nothing wrong with that, but one needs to take those experiments with a pinch of salt.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Didn't think RDT was advised with this grinder.


I think the manual mentions not getting the burrs wet.







I always cleaned my Sage burrs that way but they appear to be stainless. Other grinders I use generally only have one bean in them so they don't get cleaned much at all. Even weighing in on the mini.

So far grinding into the portafilter hasn't really shown any static effects -







then I decided to pull a shot and take a photo as I suspect plastic dosing funnels may be bad news.









Some stuck, many fell off following 1 tap - as above. Tapping the funnel on the portafilter removed the rest. Might be oil, seems rather soon though. I'm using an airscape and when I pull the plunger out have to check the underside for bean that have stuck to it. It's coated in oil - hope it washes ok.

The mini produced a lot more static weighing in with no antistatic grid - lots of grinds over time around the grinder and on the grinder itself.

John

-


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ajohn said:


> I think the manual mentions not getting the burrs wet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just to be clear, you did take the plastic dosing funnel off before engaging the pf?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Just to be clear, you did take the plastic dosing funnel off before engaging the pf?


Stop triggering him!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just spotted on the Indeigogo website that Niche are 2 away from 1 thousand backers. I won't say grinders built, because of course they have built more.....but almost at the magic 1000 sold! I expect that must be a great feeling for them, especially as in this cold winter weather a shirt is required under the fleece.

P.S. I'll bet Mazzer can't believe how many Kony Burrs they have had to make last year


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> P.S. I'll bet Mazzer can't believe how many Kony Burrs they have had to make last year


Possibly a very stupid question, but does one need some license or anything to use branded burrs in a grinder of a different brand? It's a competing product in a way.

I can imagine Niche had to source them directly as I wouldn't expect retailers to stock thousands of burrs.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> Possibly a very stupid question, but does one need some license or anything to use branded burrs in a grinder of a different brand? It's a competing product in a way.
> 
> I can imagine Niche had to source them directly as I wouldn't expect retailers to stock thousands of burrs.


No and if you think about it, it doesn't really compete at all...totally different markets.

Also the burrs will last so long in domestic use that the current crop of grinders won't need replacements for 20-40 years depending on usage. So it's not like absolutely huge numbers will be needed each year from the customer base.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I wonder, if at this point, I can open a can of worms, and ask if anyone would change anything on their grinder. Now, by that, I mean for example, being able to grind into the pf ......this is being discussed by various people, so lets have new thoughts....not cosmetic things like change the switch......paint the magnet better.......I mean things that could really make a difference. personally, I cannot think of anything on mine that I would change...bearing in mind its price.

On the versalab, which costs considerably more, you can buy hoppers that dose into the opening, but I would imagine cost more than a Niche, so, lets keep our feet on the ground


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well they reached 1000 backers, the final two came in the last 15 minutes. Great British success story...


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> I wonder, if at this point, I can open a can of worms, and ask if anyone would change anything on their grinder. Now, by that, I mean for example, being able to grind into the pf ......this is being discussed by various people, so lets have new thoughts....not cosmetic things like change the switch......paint the magnet better.......I mean things that could really make a difference. personally, I cannot think of anything on mine that I would change...bearing in mind its price.
> 
> On the versalab, which costs considerably more, you can buy hoppers that dose into the opening, but I would imagine cost more than a Niche, so, lets keep our feet on the ground


I've been wondering if a steeper angle for the throat would have reduced popcorning. Alternatively some item to be placed on top of the beans to improve feeding into the burrs.

Anyway, can't say that I'm too bothered by this - really enjoying mine.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I wonder, if at this point, I can open a can of worms, and ask if anyone would change anything on their grinder. Now, by that, I mean for example, being able to grind into the pf ......this is being discussed by various people, so lets have new thoughts....not cosmetic things like change the switch......paint the magnet better.......I mean things that could really make a difference. personally, I cannot think of anything on mine that I would change...bearing in mind its price.
> 
> On the versalab, which costs considerably more, you can buy hoppers that dose into the opening, but I would imagine cost more than a Niche, so, lets keep our feet on the ground


Scale of adjustment for the full 360 degrees.

Six inch longer mains cable for situations where you might need to use skirting board AC outlet.

I can live with these things as they are & am very happy with the grinder, but these would make it 'perfect' for me.

If you mean things that will significantly change the performance, I don't see how this could be done without a total redesign. Then it would be a different grinder.

I don't understand the fascination with grinding directly into a PF.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Scale of adjustment for the full 360 degrees.
> 
> Six inch longer mains cable for situations where you might need to use skirting board AC outlet.
> 
> ...


Agreed re grinding into the pf.....understand about the cable......can you explain the 3560 degree....I presumed that the adjustments would be made beyond the scales?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Agreed re grinding into the pf.....understand about the cable......can you explain the 3560 degree....I presumed that the adjustments would be made beyond the scales?


Grinding for drip I have run out of numbers on the facia, so espresso users can say they grind at 18, or 25 after calibration, I'm grinding at 'a quarter of an inch anticlockwise of the calibration mark.' Perhaps most who use the grinder will do so for espresso, but for coarser drip brews people have to add a second dot for +50, or reference vaguer, relationship to calibration & hinge marks.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MWJB said:


> If you mean things that will significantly change the performance, I don't see how this could be done without a total redesign. Then it would be a different grinder.


Do you mind sharing that? Just curious...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Grinding for drip I have run out of numbers on the facia, so espresso users can say they grind at 18, or 25 after calibration, I'm grinding at 'a quarter of an inch anticlockwise of the calibration mark.' Perhaps most who use the grinder will do so for espresso, but for coarser drip brews people have to add a second dot for +50, or reference vaguer, relationship calibration & hinge marks.


I was way past calibration mark for chemex too. The coarse isn't coarse whwn using it for drip.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Re grinding into the Pf, i don't get the also. Perhaps it makes people feel like they are working in a cafe or they are jsut used to using hulking commercial grinders at home and don't want to change . It really isnt a huge effort to tip and shake a cup as the grinder was designed, time saved is minuscule.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

All this talk about static, I was wondering if anyone knew about the existence of the ZEROSTAT anti-static gun? Some swear by them for when they play their records, so maybe it could find a happy place in someone's coffee ritual...



https://www.juno.co.uk/products/milty-zerostat-3-anti-static-pistol-for/299784-01/


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

The first reply on this thread!:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/milty-zerostat-good-for-more-than-just-lps.496900/


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

PPapa said:


> Do you mind sharing that? Just curious...


The grinder is compact, single dose, low retention/high dose consistency, £500. To keep to the single dose/low retention ethos & be able to grind significantly finer, you're probably looking at adding an auger, which will add height, or footprint and price - there are already bigger, more expensive grinders to choose from.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Scale of adjustment for the full 360 degrees.
> 
> Six inch longer mains cable for situations where you might need to use skirting board AC outlet.


These are the two things for me. I'm using one for my pop-up coffee offer, for decaf coffees. A couple of times I've had it under the table on a box as I couldn't get the balance with the extensions and plug lengths. At home with filter I find the same.

Otherwise I love it and they're not showstoppers for me.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

A slightly longer mains cable would be good for me.


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

I have confession to make....I was one of the first to receive a niche and I have never cleaned it!!!

Is this ok, or should I hang my head in shame and never darken the doors of this forum again?

Seriously, given the very low retention, and assuming you beans arent particularly oily, isnt it reasonable not to clean?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> I have confession to make....I was one of the first to receive a niche and I have never cleaned it!!!
> 
> Is this ok, or should I hang my head in shame and never darken the doors of this forum again?
> 
> Seriously, given the very low retention, and assuming you beans arent particularly oily, isnt it reasonable not to clean?


I wouldn't be too worried


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Re grinding into the Pf, i don't get the also. Perhaps it makes people feel like they are working in a cafe or they are jsut used to using hulking commercial grinders at home and don't want to change . It really isnt a huge effort to tip and shake a cup as the grinder was designed, time saved is minuscule.


I would say from what I have done so far that the cup is the easiest option in respect to consistency. So for a while I will grind into the portafilter to be sure - it is beginning to look to be a dubious option though.

John

-


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

Stanic said:


> I wouldn't be too worried


thanks I feel better now.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> I have confession to make....I was one of the first to receive a niche and I have never cleaned it!!!
> 
> Is this ok, or should I hang my head in shame and never darken the doors of this forum again?
> 
> Seriously, given the very low retention, and assuming you beans arent particularly oily, isnt it reasonable not to clean?










Sounds like a good idea to me. They suggest 3 to 6 months for a deep clean. When people do it wouldn't surprise me if it gets upset - rather briefly going on how it worked from new.








What I am wondering about is the 2 spare springs under the wooden platform ? I can think of 2 possible reasons neither are something to worry about but can't help being curious.

John

-


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Sounds like a good idea to me. They suggest 3 to 6 months for a deep clean. When people do it wouldn't surprise me if it gets upset - rather briefly going on how it worked from new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"@ajohn emerges suspiciously from the twilight zone". The explanation for the spare springs is quite simple. I told Martin that people often vacuum out grinders and that the springs are likely to get sucked up by a few, others will remove them and be careless and their bouncy nature when dropped means it can be easy to lose them. As the springs were cheap when manufactured by the many thousands, he decided to hide a spare set in the base of each grinder just in case. Then if a user ever called for new springs they would be told..."there is a set in the base". I think it was Martins Mum who cable tied and placed all of those in all the grinders bases.

So you can stop wondering.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> "@ajohn emerges suspiciously from the twilight zone". The explanation for the spare springs is quite simple. I told Martin that people often vacuum out grinders and that the springs are likely to get sucked up by a few, others will remove them and be careless and their bouncy nature when dropped means it can be easy to lose them. As the springs were cheap when manufactured by the many thousands, he decided to hide a spare set in the base of each grinder just in case. Then if a user ever called for new springs they would be told..."there is a set in the base". I think it was Martins Mum who cable tied and placed all of those in all the grinders bases.
> 
> So you can stop wondering.


That was one of the reasons I thought they were there. Nice attention to detail and neat cable tie work by Martin's mom.

John

-


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## Teejay (Dec 4, 2017)

+1 for a longer cable otherwise no complaints.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I wouldn't mind a different hopper/lid design. It's just not the most efficient and popcorning protection is alright, but not brilliant. I wouldn't mind if there was just a lid on top of the metal hopper, ala Monolith style. Maybe @MildredM could say what she preferred more!

I don't think the safety switch is really needed, but I see a reason why it's there. It's a home grinder, where kids (which I don't have!) or sleepy user could get seriously injured.

+1 on the cable. I mentioned it before and got booed last time...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Teejay said:


> +1 for a longer cable otherwise no complaints.


They might not be able to get more in especially if they want the length to be adjustable after it's all pulled out. I doubt if I will ever be able to change the lead length on my DB, initially it all had to be pulled out.








I have grinders where the lead is much longer than I need and isn't adjustable other than with snips and a new plug. Niche is just about long enough for me.

One answer to the lead length problem that isn't used much on household items or coffee gear in general is an IEC socket. Adds to cost. A simpler option is a suitable switched multi socket extension lead where ever the gear needs to be used. They can be easy to mount on a wall - not a good idea on a kettle which is probably why they use a socket. Another more permanent solution for sockets needed in different places is a 3 way plug top that MK make.

John

-


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

It's little touches like that (re the spare springs) show how much thought has gone into it. 9/10 times you wouldn't get the same thought process from a big company.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Fez said:


> It's little touches like that (re the spare springs) show how much thought has gone into it. 9/10 times you wouldn't get the same thought process from a big company.


A big company wouldn't have asked someone like me to test/review it. This meant the problems and issues were all worked out before you got your hands on them, so no burnt out motors, stalling grinders on light roasts, stripped gears and belts etc... A big company probably wouldn't have used genuine Mazzer burrs and probably not cared as much about the consumer!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

PPapa said:


> I wouldn't mind a different hopper/lid design. It's just not the most efficient and popcorning protection is alright, but not brilliant. I wouldn't mind if there was just a lid on top of the metal hopper, ala Monolith style. Maybe @MildredM could say what she preferred more!
> 
> I don't think the safety switch is really needed, but I see a reason why it's there. It's a home grinder, where kids (which I don't have!) or sleepy user could get seriously injured.
> 
> +1 on the cable. I mentioned it before and got booed last time...


I can see a customised Joey-lid sitting atop the hopper


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

PPapa said:


> I wouldn't mind a different hopper/lid design. It's just not the most efficient and popcorning protection is alright, but not brilliant. I wouldn't mind if there was just a lid on top of the metal hopper, ala Monolith style. Maybe @MildredM could say what she preferred more!
> 
> I don't think the safety switch is really needed, but I see a reason why it's there. It's a home grinder, where kids (which I don't have!) or sleepy user could get seriously injured.
> 
> +1 on the cable. I mentioned it before and got booed last time...


Popcorning is unlikely to have much effect on a conical burr grinder. That comment may be based on hopper on and off on a Sage grinder but Niche have designed the slight problem with weighing in on a Sage grinder out. I've already weighed in more beans on Niche than I would be able to on an SGP before it clogged. That was down to the beans I use.

People may also find less need for setting changes on conical - based on another Sage grinder. Only time will tell.

John

-


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ajohn said:


> Popcorning is unlikely to have much effect on a conical burr grinder.


Seriously? Are you saying that, if I fill the hopper of the Niche or any other conical with enough beans so that the beans that end up ground and in the coffee basket never popcorn, I'll get the same as if I just singled dosed?

I believe experiments over the years, done on this forum proved otherwise. But I may be getting my facts wrong.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Yawn yawn yawn, it does have an effect on conical burr grinders, I found the band of particle size reduced when grinding with a full hopper on the niche. But that is not how it is designed and folk are getting results they are happy with anyway


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Seriously? Are you saying that, if I fill the hopper of the Niche or any other conical with enough beans so that the beans that end up ground and in the coffee basket never popcorn, I'll get the same as if I just singled dosed?
> 
> I believe experiments over the years, done on this forum proved otherwise. But I may be getting my facts wrong.


No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that any popcorning on a conical grinder wont have much effect compared with the hopper being on - unlike a flat burr grinder. Like I said *based on what a Sage grinder does* - ie no need to change grinder settings to maintain some output of coffee for the same weight in. I did drink both.

Popcorning will increase the time taken to grind say 18g of beans but that's due to beans bouncing around and taking their time to get between the burrs.

Take a look at the slope on the inner burr on Niche and think what would happen if they sloped the other way. When a bean gets there mechanical force causes it to continue travelling down into the burrs. The weight over them has less effect.

Only problem with comparing Sage with Niche is way way more slope on Sage but the burrs finish up relatively clean anyway.

Then there is the part that actually grinds - sloped to push down on both grinders.

Flat burrs are completely different.

John

-


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> No. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that any popcorning on a conical grinder wont have much effect compared with the hopper being on - unlike a flat burr grinder. Like I said *based on what a Sage grinder does* - ie no need to change grinder settings to maintain some output of coffee for the same weight in. I did drink both.
> 
> Popcorning will increase the time taken to grind say 18g of beans but that's due to beans bouncing around and taking their time to get between the burrs.
> 
> ...


I'll be interested in reading your theories on why flats & conicals acted the same in the single bean experiments if popcorning doesn't effect conicals.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Again, there's a lot of talk about popcorning on here like it's an awfully bad thing.

If I'm standing over the niche watching it happen and can't waste any more precious seconds then I just switch the motor off, then back on when the bean has stopped bouncing about.

Can anyone explain what it is about popcorning that is so terrible?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

rdpx said:


> Again, there's a lot of talk about popcorning on here like it's an awfully bad thing.
> 
> If I'm standing over the niche watching it happen and can't waste any more precious seconds then I just switch the motor off, then back on when the bean has stopped bouncing about.
> 
> Can anyone explain what it is about popcorning that is so terrible?


All gravity fed, hopperless & 'hoppered with a low bean weight' grinders do it.

It leads to a coarser overall grind compared to full hopper/auger fed.

There's nothing terrible about it, work with what you have (possibly a coarser grind, might need more water passed through it?).


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

MWJB said:


> All gravity fed, hopperless & 'hoppered with a low bean weight' grinders do it.
> 
> It leads to a coarser overall grind compared to full hopper/auger fed.
> 
> There's nothing terrible about it, work with what you have (possibly a coarser grind, might need more water passed through it?).


I'm getting much better results from the Niche than I ever did from our Mazzer Mini, full hopper or not.

I quite like watching the last bean pinging about.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

rdpx said:


> I'm getting much better results from the Niche than I ever did from our Mazzer Mini, full hopper or not.
> 
> I quite like watching the last bean pinging about.


Which is all that really matters. Do you like the results, the taste and the workflow. Was it worth what you paid and if you had the choice over, would you still have bought it? If the answer is yes...really who cares about a bean pinging about. The Niche has bought a substantial increase in quality and choice in a proper domestic footprint for a large conical burr single dosing grinder. Let face it the needs of the domestic user are completely different from the cafe owner. We might have 3 different beans on the go (not 3 grinders like a coffee shop) and we can swap between them or move accurately from brewed to espresso within seconds. Grind adjustment is easy and the lack of waste means over 5-7 years we save the entire cost of the grinder. Hopefully other manufacturers will take note and make equally good "domestic" grinders at a sensible price point within reach of all.

Often what we think we want is bragging rights, but what we need are more grinders like the Niche Zero, both conical and flat burrs.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Do you like the results, the taste and the workflow.


Again, several people seem to want to be able to grind directly into the portafilter. Grinding into the cup means I don't have to stand there holding the pf; I get almost zero coffee grain mess everywhere; greatly improves the distribution once it's in the pf.

Plus the cup is useful for weighing out the dose.

I can't see any downside at all.


----------



## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

I am using Niche every day and I adjust my grind settings between LR, Robot and Moccamaster. Switching between LR and Robot is easy, just 3-4 point coarser for Robot and all good. Moccamaster however is much coarser grind, so I end up somewhere close to the 50-60 setting. Again going is courser smooth. But when I want to go back from 50 to 15, then when going finer I have to do this in steps, 5 points at the time, run the motor, and again, and again. Why it is happening? Yes, I know when we go finer, we should run the motor, but with Niche retention is so minimal that after one or two moves back, I would expect nothing is left within the burrs. So why still there is this force preventing me going finer in one go. This is of course not a big issue, just I am curious why it is happening. Something with the springs and locking mechanism?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pj.walczak said:


> I am using Niche every day and I adjust my grind settings between LR, Robot and Moccamaster. Switching between LR and Robot is easy, just 3-4 point coarser for Robot and all good. Moccamaster however is much coarser grind, so I end up somewhere close to the 50-60 setting. Again going is courser smooth. But when I want to go back from 50 to 15, then when going finer I have to do this in steps, 5 points at the time, run the motor, and again, and again. Why it is happening? Yes, I know when we go finer, we should run the motor, but with Niche retention is so minimal that after one or two moves back, I would expect nothing is left within the burrs. So why still there is this force preventing me going finer in one go. This is of course not a big issue, just I am curious why it is happening. Something with the springs and locking mechanism?


Chunks of bean left in the burrs, preventing them from closing. It's normal & happens all the time with hand grinders.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> A big company wouldn't have asked someone like me to test/review it. This meant the problems and issues were all worked out before you got your hands on them, so no burnt out motors, stalling grinders on light roasts, stripped gears and belts etc... A big company probably wouldn't have used genuine Mazzer burrs and probably not cared as much about the consumer!


There's probably some confusion going around about the actual manufacturer of the Niche burrs.

If genuine is an euphemism for compatible and the opposite of fake, there's a good case for not having Mazzer made burrs.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dev said:


> There's probably some confusion going around about the actual manufacturer of the Niche burrs.
> 
> If genuine is an euphemism for compatible and the opposite of fake, there's a good case for not having Mazzer made burrs.


Sorry I don't understand what on earth your actually saying, can you explain?


----------



## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

I'm saying the Niche doesn't have Mazzer made burrs but rather italmill or similar.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

dev said:


> I'm saying the Niche doesn't have Mazzer made burrs but rather italmill or similar.


Have you got a Niche, and if so, have you taken the burrs out and had a look?

Had my burrs out for a clean yesterday, and unless they are printing/engraving Mazzer on them illegally, they are indeed Mazzer.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dev said:


> I'm saying the Niche doesn't have Mazzer made burrs but rather italmill or similar.


Ah now I understand, and how did you come to this conclusion?


----------



## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Have you got a Niche, and if so, have you taken the burrs out and had a look?
> 
> Had my burrs out for a clean yesterday, and unless they are printing/engraving Mazzer on them illegally, they are indeed Mazzer.


Did you take a picture?

If not, did you see Mazzer actually stamped or just the part no.

This is how Mazzer burrs look like:


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> Did you take a picture?
> 
> If not, did you see Mazzer actually stamped or just the part no.
> 
> This is how Mazzer burrs look like:


Why does he need to take a picture when he can see his own burrs in the flesh?










I look forward to the libel case you're opening yourself up to having to defend.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

And no they didn't come out of my robur.







Those wisks by the way are crap.

John

-


----------



## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

Mine arrived today. Had a few after work shots..... Just to dial it in....and a bit of a tinker obviously.

First impressions are very positive. Nice build quality, easy to adjust and I like the practicalities which is why I bought it. Tomorrow morning will be a big test when I attempt to use it for espresso and V60 before 7 am

I think the new machine will be up to the job. A bit of bean bouncing will not worry me as long as the taste of my drinks are good. Feeling chuffed with it anyway.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

I was all fine until I took the challenge of the dreaded 15g vst basket just after new year. Still playing with it, but last few attempts on a bottomless pf have been... Interesting...!

Bit of spritzing and often 2 streams rather than 1 (sometimes you can see the dry spot).

I know these are notoriously difficult, but has anyone worked out a solid workflow for one of these with the Niche? Wondering if my distribution just isn't quite right when I transfer from cup to PF.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jaffro said:


> I was all fine until I took the challenge of the dreaded 15g vst basket just after new year. Still playing with it, but last few attempts on a bottomless pf have been... Interesting...!
> 
> Bit of spritzing and often 2 streams rather than 1 (sometimes you can see the dry spot).
> 
> I know these are notoriously difficult, but has anyone worked out a solid workflow for one of these with the Niche? Wondering if my distribution just isn't quite right when I transfer from cup to PF.


I use an 18g VTS and naked portafilter all the time. I have no problems at all with it when used on a pressure profiling machine, or non pressure profiling machine. Perhaps just use an 18g basket if the 15g is specifically bad?


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## MalcolmH (Dec 10, 2016)

@jaffro Ive been using a 15gVST naked straight from the off. Ive now gone through around 4.5kg of beans with no major problems. Im now going through the CC three 500g offer which were lighter roasts. Ive upped the dose to 16g. Gives me good results. I grind in cup, stir with a long screw!!, into the pf. Tap NE, SE, SW and NW. I get a nice mound (mostly) which I tap level then tamp. For comparison I have an ECM Mechanica.


----------



## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I use an 18g VTS and naked portafilter all the time. I have no problems at all with it when used on a pressure profiling machine, or non pressure profiling machine. Perhaps just use an 18g basket if the 15g is specifically bad?


Are you currently using a chopstick or have you gone back to shaking, Dave?


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jaffro said:


> I was all fine until I took the challenge of the dreaded 15g vst basket just after new year. Still playing with it, but last few attempts on a bottomless pf have been... Interesting...!
> 
> Bit of spritzing and often 2 streams rather than 1 (sometimes you can see the dry spot).
> 
> I know these are notoriously difficult, but has anyone worked out a solid workflow for one of these with the Niche? Wondering if my distribution just isn't quite right when I transfer from cup to PF.


If your stirring the grinds don't do much. After all there isn't much static. Hard to explain but aim to try and lift grinds from the bottom to the top. When you invert to empty the can don't do it vigorously, be gentle. While the can is on tap the portafilter on the tamping mat at about 45 degrees and then lower and smack the top of the can. With a bit of practice the heap should be pretty level - dished reasonably evenly. Then maybe a bit of gentle finger / thumb grooming if needed.

To get around tamping out of level I then use a chisel type grooming tool set to pretamp. When I actually use the tamper it goes down by around 0.5 to 1.5mm max. Neither fit the basket perfectly so I use the chisel pushed up against the basket and rotate that way all of the way around. After using the tamper I do the same thing with that without applying much pressure. I was thinking about buying an over sized tamper but from results I don't think I will be doing that. I use a 15kg tamp. Some use a light tamp but that hasn't worked out for me.

Flow wise basket, bean and amount may give some dripping during infusion. As the pressure builds I may get 2 streams that are close together but soon turn to one.

I doubt if I will ever try a 15g VST if I remain with the DB. It's likely to need 17g on those maybe even more if it's a dense bean. That's not a weight that interests me. One thing I don't do with any basket is under fill to the extent that grinder settings mean that a light film of water is left on the puck or go the other way where the puck is extra hard to knock out. It shouldn't need much more than a firmish tap.

I've ordered my beans late on purpose so Niche will get used less often for a while. Curious to see if that does anything. I have this grinder where a review shows 18.0g after it has supposedly bean set to that.







Doubt if it's true but am forcing myself to find out.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Is the above post basically, no i haven't used a 15g vst


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ChrisBy said:


> Are you currently using a chopstick or have you gone back to shaking, Dave?


I still use that wooden chopstick, give it a quick stir for a few seconds and thats it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I used mine today for espresso .....grind, shake a little, turn it up hoy it in, pull the shot....no spritzing with a single spout, tastes good.....whats the fascination with bottomless?.......just for good measure, switched to a bottomless, same procedure without fanning on, perfect pour


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

dfk41 said:


> ...whats the fascination with bottomless?...


Easy to clean, easy to spot mistakes, sexy!


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Is the above post basically, no i haven't used a 15g vst


When the sun sets during the winter it tends to mean that the daylight hours that preceded it were shorter, on average than the specifically measured hours of daylight on mid-summers day. Conversely if you measure the hours of daylight that immediately follow the sunrise 3 days after the equinox it is likely that the temperature was on the whole 3.4783231 degrees warmer than on a wet Wednesday in Honduras except, as seems unlikely, if the rain in Spain really does happen mainly in the mountains on Shrove Tuesday. But if you use a Gaggia Classic with the stock basket the maximum dose is nearer 15.6785g without tamping but channeling is more likely with an EK43 on Thursday.


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> I still use that wooden chopstick, give it a quick stir for a few seconds and thats it.


Thanks! Was afraid I was falling behind the vanguard of Nichery after watching this:






Do you use some sort of anti-popcorn inner lid in that video?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Drewster said:


> When the sun sets during the winter it tends to mean that the daylight hours that preceded it were shorter, on average than the specifically measured hours of daylight on mid-summers day. Conversely if you measure the hours of daylight that immediately follow the sunrise 3 days after the equinox it is likely that the temperature was on the whole 3.4783231 degrees warmer than on a wet Wednesday in Honduras except, as seems unlikely, if the rain in Spain really does happen mainly in the mountains on Shrove Tuesday. But if you use a Gaggia Classic with the stock basket the maximum dose is nearer 15.6785g without tamping but channeling is more likely with an EK43 on Thursday.


Potato, Potato


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MalcolmH said:


> @jaffro Ive been using a 15gVST naked straight from the off. Ive now gone through around 4.5kg of beans with no major problems. Im now going through the CC three 500g offer which were lighter roasts. Ive upped the dose to 16g. Gives me good results. I grind in cup, stir with a long screw!!, into the pf. Tap NE, SE, SW and NW. I get a nice mound (mostly) which I tap level then tamp. For comparison I have an ECM Mechanica.


15g vst is a bitch, with any grinder. Especially at 9 bar....

It will be a combination of distribution allied to the face that you are grinding alot finer, as the dose is less, there is less coffee, the coffee bed is less dense, therefore finer grind to create some flow and resistance. Finer you go, the harder it is to get more even in the basket and for the grinder to keep really even too. Lastly add the more surface area of the combined holes on a vst means = it's a bitch.

Not much help I know, but hopefully gives you some perspective.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ChrisBy said:


> Thanks! Was afraid I was falling behind the vanguard of Nichery after watching this:


That's his cunningly placed pringles lid.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ChrisBy said:


> Thanks! Was afraid I was falling behind the vanguard of Nichery after watching this:


Whoop! The Video







I can enjoy the stickerless bottom all over again


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## ChrisBy (Jul 30, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> That's his cunningly placed pringles lid.


In the hopper or on the cup?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ChrisBy said:


> In the hopper or on the cup?


In the hopper & to reduce the space for popcorning as you rightly guessed. Think he mentioned it in passing on this thread but it was a while ago so easily missed.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I'm using the Pringles lid and it works to stop the bits flying under the lid. However, muppetry... the lid is near enough transparent and I have been know to dump a load of beans on top of it with consequences I leave to your imagination... Now looking for a coloured equivalent...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Looks like I can enjoy a 15g VST. IMS seem to have done the same thing









Argggggggggggg the 15 was sold as a 12 which is what I wanted.

John

-


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Rob666 said:


> I'm using the Pringles lid and it works to stop the bits flying under the lid. However, muppetry... the lid is near enough transparent and I have been know to dump a load of beans on top of it with consequences I leave to your imagination... Now looking for a coloured equivalent...


RIT dye







or Tumeric


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Rob666 said:


> I'm using the Pringles lid and it works to stop the bits flying under the lid. However, muppetry... the lid is near enough transparent and I have been know to dump a load of beans on top of it with consequences I leave to your imagination... Now looking for a coloured equivalent...


Steal some nail polish from your significant other to decorate the top side?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> Looks like I can enjoy a 15g VST. IMS seem to have done the same thing
> 
> View attachment 38518
> 
> ...


Totally different shape to the 15g VST so your search continues.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

ashcroc said:


> Steal some nail polish from your significant other to decorate the top side?


Ha, ha!







 Good idea!


----------



## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Thanks for the replies everyone, a few useful suggestions, I'll have a play!



Mrboots2u said:


> 15g vst is a bitch, with any grinder. Especially at 9 bar....
> 
> It will be a combination of distribution allied to the face that you are grinding alot finer, as the dose is less, there is less coffee, the coffee bed is less dense, therefore finer grind to create some flow and resistance. Finer you go, the harder it is to get more even in the basket and for the grinder to keep really even too. Lastly add the more surface area of the combined holes on a vst means = it's a bitch.
> 
> Not much help I know, but hopefully gives you some perspective.


That's useful info, thanks @Mrboots2u







maybe I'll just put it in a non bottomless portafilter and forget about it haha.


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

I use 15 g VST with Niche and LR.

I grind, transfer the coffee to the portafilter with Funnel, then do WDT using Londinium DT.

Perfect pour.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Totally different shape to the 15g VST so your search continues.


I hadn't realised that. The 15g vst is along the same lines as many 14g baskets shape and perforation area wise. The Barista Pro are all similar and more straight sided.

Anyway the 15g on a DB might need 17g in it, the Sage double can work well with that amount of coffee in it. So wont be looking for a 15g VST.

John

-


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I finally cleaned the Niche straight after a shot, so thought I'd share some observations.

1. There was a lot of course grinds in the threads which might explain issues adjusting from coarse to fine.

2. The threads are greased! Be careful if you're precious about getting grease on your brush and then other parts.

3. There are quite a few flakey bits below the burr.

4. The compacted grinds on the burr come off nicely using the side of a toothpick.

5. The burrs are made by Mazzer









6. Some grinds get stuck around the springs. Be careful they don't go in the hole where the spring is seated or they could upset the spring level.

7. When putting everything back I went past the calibration mark by 3 setting marks, which shows some variation from before. I re-calibrated and amended all my records. For info, I was using a range of 12-17 for espresso. Now it's 15-20.

8. I got something like 0.7 to 0.9g out of the bugger. Probably 1g with bits stuck in the brush.


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## Gatty (Dec 26, 2017)

Weirdly enough came here to write up my experiences of cleaning the Niche this morning - Richard and I are clearly in sync. Agree with pretty much everything above, though was actually a couple of setting marks the other side of the calibration mark. Will probably do a quick clean of the silver funnel more frequently to keep on top of the coarse grinds building up.

Super easy to clean! Glad I didn't take photos - now feel I wasn't quite as thorough as Richard!


----------



## Gatty (Dec 26, 2017)

One thing I'd add would be to dose up by two beans for the first shot after cleaning to counteract the first grind retention


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

I cleaned mine for the first time since I got it the other day (shameful, I know, I just kept forgetting to order myself a socket set since moving away from home!). It had probably had 4-5kg through it, mostly light/medium beans, but the occasional 250g of dark CC stuff.

It was very satisfying taking it apart and cleaning it, but I'm surprised at how 'dirty' yours is! Mine wasn't even close to that amount of build up... I wonder why that is? Oilier beans, more switching between brew types,...


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I'm surprised at how 'dirty' yours is! Mine wasn't even close to that amount of build up... I wonder why that is? Oilier beans, more switching between brew types,...


Well this is the first clean in.... quite some time.... okay, since I got it in August! So that might be one reason....

Otherwise I don't use oily beans, but have tried a few coarse settings - going as far as one full turn coarser than espresso.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I cleaned mine for the first time since I got it the other day (shameful, I know, I just kept forgetting to order myself a socket set since moving away from home!). It had probably had 4-5kg through it, mostly light/medium beans, but the occasional 250g of dark CC stuff.
> 
> It was very satisfying taking it apart and cleaning it, but I'm surprised at how 'dirty' yours is! Mine wasn't even close to that amount of build up... I wonder why that is? Oilier beans, more switching between brew types,...


I suspect it is downs to the coffees and roast level combinations used. I tend to prefer my coffees not too dark and not too light. I also remove as much chaff as possible from my beans (really dislike too much chaff on coffee). I get a lot less build up than that. Obviously the stuff he had to scrape off is never exchanging, that stuff becomes a filler for small gaps when it's burnished on by the sweep arms (e.g. bottom burr face)..

Loved the comment about "updosing by 2 beans"...when I look back to May 2017 or 0000 BN, such a comment would have garnered some strange looks.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Some users reported grease around the burrs or the chamber when they received theirs. I don't recall seeing any to be honest, it's more likely just a long period of use before cleaning. It's probably had 5kgs through it.

I'll report back any difference in another 5 months...


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> Some users reported grease around the burrs or the chamber when they received theirs. I don't recall seeing any to be honest, it's more likely just a long period of use before cleaning. It's probably had 5kgs through it.
> 
> I'll report back any difference in another 5 months...


One of the tests I specifically did was put around that much or more through before cleaning, because I know people can be a bit lazy with the cleaning.....didn't really see much more than doing it monthly....or weekly. It's why I assume it's the coffee.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> One of the tests I specifically did was put around that much or more through before cleaning, because I know people can be a bit lazy with the cleaning.....didn't really see much more than doing it monthly....or weekly. It's why I assume it's the coffee.


Having cleaned it once, I think it will be more frequent now given how easy it is.

For info, the darkest roast I've put through would have a hint of oil on the surface. That would be very uncommon as well.... almost never.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

what size socket is required to take the top burr off please?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> what size socket is required to take the top burr off please?


10mm David, use it in a screwdriver style handle as you don't want to put too much force on it. Something like below, but with a slightly longer hndle if you can, although the stubby will work fine.

https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/23-Piece-Ratchet-Screwdriver-Bit-and-Socket-Set/41-1091?gclid=Cj0KCQiAvebhBRD5ARIsAIQUmnkNfP6wOJUvJncHs3e2ZzBaO3cZzfFASfkkCshoYvfy0YBcKNJTjQYaArP7EALw_wcB


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Gatty said:


> One thing I'd add would be to dose up by two beans for the first shot after cleaning to counteract the first grind retention


I up dosed by 2g. I'm quite pessimistic.

There was 0.6g retained on the first grind, 'Zero' on the second.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> 10mm David, use it in a screwdriver style handle as you don't want to put too much force on it. Something like below, but with a slightly longer hndle if you can, although the stubby will work fine.
> 
> https://www.clasohlson.com/uk/23-Piece-Ratchet-Screwdriver-Bit-and-Socket-Set/41-1091?gclid=Cj0KCQiAvebhBRD5ARIsAIQUmnkNfP6wOJUvJncHs3e2ZzBaO3cZzfFASfkkCshoYvfy0YBcKNJTjQYaArP7EALw_wcB


many ta's


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> many ta's


Could of watched Dave's video it's actually in it.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jony said:


> Could of watched Dave's video it's actually in it.


could of, did not.....wife was watching tv and no headphones to hand.....is it such big deal for you?


----------



## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

richwade80 said:


> I finally cleaned the Niche straight after a shot, so thought I'd share some observations.
> 
> 1. There was a lot of course grinds in the threads which might explain issues adjusting from coarse to fine.
> 
> ...


Oddly, my calibration ended up the other side. I COULD tighten it up enough to get back to the calibration mark, but it would be far beyond "finger tight". Weird, because I think I went for about the same pressure for finger tight as I did last time!


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> could of, did not.....wife was watching tv and no headphones to hand.....is it such big deal for you?


No I was just mentioning it that's all, but seems you have something to say about my messages. So for future reference I just wont bother.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Sorry but the way I see it, you started it



Jony said:


> No I was just mentioning it that's all, but seems you have something to say about my messages. So for future reference I just wont bother.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Nope not at all, as I know what you are like,haha I watched the video few times, even though I didn't need, anyway watch it when you can.


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Following on from cleaning my grinder which was dirrtier than Christina Aguilera after a muddy walk... I was quite surprised at the chunky bits I found around the threads.

Having thought about it, they obviously get there due to popcorning. There is a gap between the twisting upper section and the main housing with the numbers on.










It's worth keeping an eye out for stray bits in this gap as they could get in the threads.

Or better still, get a Pringles anti-popcorning lid. Or better still, a Jelly Bean Factory premium version!










https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B018ATMWOO/ref=asc_df_B018ATMWOO58014737/?tag=cfukweb-21&creative=22146&creativeASIN=B018ATMWOO&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310886368307&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18035942009095104607&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006502&hvtargid=pla-565418555755


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

richwade80 said:


> Following on from cleaning my grinder which was dirrtier than Christina Aguilera after a muddy walk... I was quite surprised at the chunky bits I found around the threads.
> 
> Having thought about it, they obviously get there due to popcorning. There is a gap between the twisting upper section and the main housing with the numbers on.
> 
> ...


Thank you for feeding my jelly bean addiction.  I don't even have a niche!


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Thank you for feeding my jelly bean addiction.  I don't even have a niche!


Get a niche to grind jelly beans!


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

richwade80 said:


> Get a niche to grind jelly beans!


This isn't helping! I already have to wait til tokorrow to get them delivered & am mighty tempted to pop up the road to tkmaxx to tide me over until they arrive.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

This is why I use a lid smaller than, but similar to a Pringles lid (as some of the sharper eyed members have spotted), if I ate Pringles, then that's what I would use. I found this little trick out long after the review and it really does help keep everything where it should be and gives the beans a plastic ceiling from which to bounce to an earlier death in the burrs..


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jaffro said:


> Thanks for the replies everyone, a few useful suggestions, I'll have a play!
> 
> That's useful info, thanks @Mrboots2u
> 
> ...


Bottomless is a good diagnostic tool if you are troubleshooting your coffee or not happy with the taste.

18g VST is easier to use


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

I just wanted to post an update to the 3D Printed PF stand for the NZ. I added an alignment tab for the stand so that it doesn't wander while grinding. Also added a back notch for the PF funnel. I tweaked the PF funnel to include both a front and back tab. Also tightened up the funnel a bit so that it will stay on well (not so loose). I'll update Thingiverse later tonight ( GMT-5) with the changes.

Here is a video grinding into the PF on the stand and funnel











And some photos of the changes...









I think this will be my final version. It works pretty well. The grinds settle into the PF with a tap as you can see in the video. And I find this gives me a better distribution in the basket than if I used the cup. It could be my technique with the cup needs to be improved, but I'm finding a difference of up to 5s in pulling shots, i.e. slower pulls with grinding into the PF than into the cup.


----------



## Mic_b (Nov 21, 2018)

That looks really good!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mic_b said:


> That looks really good!


It's quite Blue.....perhaps the 3D plastic comes in other colours?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Presumably you still need to WDT or do something to the grounds if dosing into the PF.


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> It's quite Blue.....perhaps the 3D plastic comes in other colours?


LOL! Yes. It is quite blue! And yes, 3D plastic comes in a myriad of colors.


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Presumably you still need to WDT or do something to the grounds if dosing into the PF.


I do not need to WDT at all when I dose into the PF. I just give it a little shake to even out the mound, tap, groom the top with the groomer and tamp.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jchung said:


> I do not need to WDT at all when I dose into the PF. I just give it a little shake to even out the mound, tap, groom the top with the groomer and tamp.


I would be happy to buy one from you to road test jchung. My Niche has always just been a second grinder but now it is my only so anything I can do to improve technique/workflow will be most welcome!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I would be happy to buy one from you to road test jchung. My Niche has always just been a second grinder but now it is my only so anything I can do to improve technique/workflow will be most welcome!


Just make sure davisds is pink


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Just make sure davisds is pink


Who is this Davisds chap?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Who is this Davisds chap?


Some dodgy bloke from oop north so absolutely not you


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh and you do if it hits your ear first?


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

jchung said:


> I do not need to WDT at all when I dose into the PF. I just give it a little shake to even out the mound, tap, groom the top with the groomer and tamp.


I should note that although I don't need to WDT, depending on the beans and the humidity, you may or may not need to use RDT to control static. Although I'm thinking of maybe making a static screen, similar to the Mazzer's but friction fit on the bottom of the chute.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

jchung said:


> I should note that although I don't need to WDT, depending on the beans and the humidity, you may or may not need to use RDT to control static. Although I'm thinking of maybe making a static screen, similar to the Mazzer's but friction fit on the bottom of the chute.


Do you do pre-infusion?


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

PPapa said:


> Do you do pre-infusion?


Yes. I do pre-infusion. 55% @ 16s of pre-infusion. First drips come out right at around 15-16s.


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

coffeechap said:


> Just make sure davisds is pink


Hmmm... I might have some pink w/ glitter filament I use to print my daughter's stuff. Hmmm....


----------



## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

Aidy said:


> The general advice for these has been to not RDT. That kinda feels like a strange solution too, when it's a problem with it sticking in the cup, but not in the grinder.
> 
> I don't think it's particularly a static problem, just that the interior of the cup is a comparatively rough surface, so collects grinds.


Coming back to this, I polished the inside and the situation is *significantly* improved.


----------



## randyr5 (Nov 13, 2018)

Aidy said:


> Coming back to this, I polished the inside and the situation is *significantly* improved.


I might do this, too. The outside of the cup is much smoother than the inside.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

I have had the grinder for a month or so and am very impressed with the work flow, design, retention, size, quietness etc. In short, there is nothing like it.

However I am not getting the taste I would like or that I was expecting from all the reviews in this thread. The taste can be overly bitter with chalky mouthfeel which may be excessive fines.

This has made me convinced that there may be something slightly faulty with my particular unit. So hoping that all here can help me figure it out.

So far I have used 2 sets of beans with it and I have not calibrated as per Dave's video as I thought there wasn't any particular need if all is working well out of the box. Let me know if doing this might help.

I have used freshly roasted Brazilian beans from Samba Fazenda and supermarket Lavazza Rosa. I know most will say why use supermarket beans. Well its my wife's favourite as when done right it can produce an exceptionally chocolaty milk drink. Even with freshly roasted Brazilian beans, the same issues happen. With the Rosa and a flat burr 64mm grinder, I have extracted the chocolaty character without the bitterness and chalkiness.

I managed to get hold of a Mazzer Kony to compare the taste. And even though the faff of going back to a giant dosered grinder was painful after using the Niche, the taste had no chalkiness and more prominent chocolatiness.

My guess is that the burrs are not perfectly aligned so there are more fines and greater grind distribution. I don't know how to test this. Also even more confusing is that the smallest change in grind size correlates with the extraction time changing accordingly which makes me think it is grinding consistently! But the taste in the cup is disappointing again.

Any help or thoughts appreciated. Things to try or any tests I could do.

My next steps are to calibrate and order some other varieties of fresh beans. See if things change.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

*I am sure this is a test you were planning to do...but just in case: You have put less than a Kilo through new burrs on the Niche and have burrs that have seen many Kg on the Kony, so are fully run in. So you could just swap the burrs over and see what happens? *

It's also worth checking the burrs in the Kony are genuine (believe it or not sometimes people fit after-market) as you can order what you think are genuine burrs and resellers send you after-market ones. If they are after-market, perhaps you prefer what the after-market ones are doing.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Actually I didn't think of that. Will try. Thanks



DavecUK said:


> *I am sure this is a test you were planning to do...but just in case: You have put less than a Kilo through new burrs on the Niche and have burrs that have seen many Kg on the Kony, so are fully run in. So you could just swap the burrs over and see what happens? *
> 
> It's also worth checking the burrs in the Kony are genuine (believe it or not sometimes people fit after-market) as you can order what you think are genuine burrs and resellers send you after-market ones. If they are after-market, perhaps you prefer what the after-market ones are doing.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Any beans that Sage DTP and Niche owners have found exceptional with the combo? So I can order to test and taste.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> *I am sure this is a test you were planning to do...but just in case: You have put less than a Kilo through new burrs on the Niche and have burrs that have seen many Kg on the Kony, so are fully run in. So you could just swap the burrs over and see what happens? *
> 
> It's also worth checking the burrs in the Kony are genuine (believe it or not sometimes people fit after-market) as you can order what you think are genuine burrs and resellers send you after-market ones. If they are after-market, perhaps you prefer what the after-market ones are doing.


Just swapping the burrs from a well used Kony which are original into the Niche to see if it improves taste and resolves the issue I've been having. Bitterness and chalkiness.

First time opening the Niche and very impressed at the actual retained grind. In the chamber only the tops of the screw holes.

All of it appears to be settled and permenant so minimal contamination with fresh grind.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

So I've just tried this and I am having my first exceptional flat white with the Niche but with old Kony burrs. Really glad to have figured out the culprit.

My problem now is how long do I have to wait for my burrs to taste like this? How come no one else has had the same issue regarding bitterness or chalkiness from brand new burrs? Could it be that one of my burrs is actually flawed or faulty?



DavecUK said:


> *I am sure this is a test you were planning to do...but just in case: You have put less than a Kilo through new burrs on the Niche and have burrs that have seen many Kg on the Kony, so are fully run in. So you could just swap the burrs over and see what happens? *
> 
> It's also worth checking the burrs in the Kony are genuine (believe it or not sometimes people fit after-market) as you can order what you think are genuine burrs and resellers send you after-market ones. If they are after-market, perhaps you prefer what the after-market ones are doing.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

They just need 15Kg or so, I am sure I have mentioned this a few times. It might even be in the review?

I think it's highly unlikely you have defective burrs, but when not run in you get more fines.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Cool. Thanks. That all makes more sense. Just wondering why no one else had such issues. In fact I recall a number of posts commending how the grinder does well without being run in.



DavecUK said:


> They just need 15Kg or so, I am sure I have mentioned this a few times. It might even be in the review?
> 
> I think it's highly unlikely you have defective burrs, but when not run in you get more fines.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

Regardless Ill try to get hold of some old beans.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I know the one I've been using heavily for 10 months or more kept improving as the burrs ran in.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> They just need 15Kg or so


Another 12 months or so for me then


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Another 12 months or so for me then


you could get some SM beans - since it won't cross-contaminate in such a way you would notice...

SM = supermarket


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

tohenk2 said:


> you could get some SM beans - since it won't cross-contaminate in such a way you would notice...
> 
> SM = supermarket


I don't think I'm equipped with hyper sensitive taste buds, so it's just fine as is


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well the thing improves a lot after the first 5kg, then a bit more after 10, then more gradually after that.

I suspect a lot of people who buy new grinders with high end burrs simply don't notice. By being able to swap burrs, it became very apparent.


----------



## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't think I'm equipped with hyper sensitive taste buds, so it's just fine as is


Well neither am I. I think it may be also to do with specific beans that are more prone to fines being produced.


----------



## Gabriele Conti (Oct 20, 2018)

Ok guys, I don't know if this is the right place to post this, but since this is about Niche Zero user experience...I guess I'll try!

I am almost sold to the idea of buying a Niche Zero, having read a lot about it in the forum and having read Dave's review countless times.

My current setup is a (shitty, I know) DeLonghi Dedica and an old Gaggia MDF grinder (with replaced burrs at least).

I am going to upgrade my espresso game, but unfortunately not in the near future.

Since I also like filter coffee a lot, I was thinking of upgrading to a Niche in the near future and start to save some money for a used NS Oscar2 for the next upgrade.

I don't know if this upgrade makes sense keeping the Delonghi, but after all this time with it now I'm able to pull decent shots with medium-dark roasts of "easy" Brazilian coffees.

I'm pretty sure that the Niche will give me better shot quality and better control. And of course will make my filter coffee as good as it can be.

What do you think ?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Gabriele Conti said:


> Since I also like filter coffee a lot, I was thinking of upgrading to a Niche in the near future and start to save some money for a used NS Oscar2 for the next upgrade.
> 
> I don't know if this upgrade makes sense keeping the Delonghi, but after all this time with it now I'm able to pull decent shots with medium-dark roasts of "easy" Brazilian coffees.
> 
> ...


The common sense route is always to upgrade the grinder....it will improve things, but then you will definitely want to update the machine, as you will realise there is so much more to be got from upgrading...up to a certain point (law of diminishing returns). Both upgrades will each give a big lift.


----------



## Gabriele Conti (Oct 20, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> The common sense route is always to upgrade the grinder....it will improve things, but then you will definitely want to update the machine, as you will realise there is so much more to be got from upgrading...up to a certain point (law of diminishing returns). Both upgrades will each give a big lift.


That's exactly my way of seeing it.

I don't know how much my espresso quality will jump, but something tells me that if I managed to have quite good espresso with this setup, it'll be quite a bit better with a proper grinder.

And I'll be ready for a real espresso machine, while brewing amazing filter hopefully!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> The common sense route is always to upgrade the grinder....it will improve things, but then you will definitely want to update the machine, as you will realise there is so much more to be got from upgrading...up to a certain point (law of diminishing returns). Both upgrades will each give a big lift.


Can you run a non pressurised basket with the delonhgi> If not will the niche really deliver to expectations?


----------



## Gabriele Conti (Oct 20, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Can you run a non pressurised basket with the delonhgi> If not will the niche really deliver to expectations?


I already run a non-pressurized filter, of course.

As I said, after a couple years of learning what an espresso is, I am finally getting something good out of the machine.

I usually aim at 14g in for 28/30 g out in 30-35 sec. It depends on the coffee of course, but it works pretty well if you consider how stupid is the delonghi









I have also installed a rancilio steam wand, so I can make pretty good flat whites.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

M_H_S said:


> Cool. Thanks. That all makes more sense. Just wondering why no one else had such issues. In fact I recall a number of posts commending how the grinder does well without being run in.


I've found that I needed to adjust the dose to gain real benefit. Oddly a smaller dose form one that was previously well established and has been used for many months. I'd say I am getting a few more fines in my mugs than I was getting off a well run in mazzer mini used in an extremely tedious way weighing in.

I don't weigh out only check the shot weight off the machine to prove I don't need to weigh out on the fly. Results are not as good as tedious mazzer but recently acceptable and may get better. It's all down to prep.

I mostly use a bean that has caused me to own 2 grinders so that I can run another. Ran a different bean through Niche for a while and then went back. All hell broke loose but settled after a quick clean. Hell breaking loose for is shot output and pour varying etc and too frequent indications that the grind setting needs changing.







Nothing new for me and I had doubts about switching to just one grinder anyway. Maybe 2 Niche. TBD.

One concern. Oil build up. Not at the moment but I may find that I need to clean some parts that aren't easy to get at. An exploded parts diagram would help if I do find I need to do that from time to time to ensure I don't do something stupid finding out how it's held together. I'm seeing some indications that I may need to do this - more build up on the "anti static grid" and on the sides of the chute.







It's easy to wipe it off the funnel at the top but a a few shots soon brings it back. I don't see much in the lines of pop corning.

Haven't measured anything but have the impression that Niche's tolerancing is better than typical Mazzer. For me that is nice to see.

John

-


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Cleaned the Niche for the first time today, I've been putting it off for a few weeks as I thought it'd probably be a bit of a mission but it's so so simple, literally took a a couple of minutes.

If you've been stalling, just do it, it's super quick and easy!


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok, these grinders have been around for a couple of months now. Has anyone actually reached the suggested level of 15 kilos (apart from Dave!) to run their burrs in? I reckon mine has only had 5 kilos through but now I am using it daily that will increase. I am looking forward to them being bedded in properly!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

On the fines in the mug compared with a run in mazzer mini maybe I should mention that I used a weight over the beans when weighing in - also a technique some what different to the one shown in a couple of videos. A rather tedious technique.

John

-


----------



## Teejay (Dec 4, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Ok, these grinders have been around for a couple of months now. Has anyone actually reached the suggested level of 15 kilos (apart from Dave!) to run their burrs in? I reckon mine has only had 5 kilos through but now I am using it daily that will increase. I am looking forward to them being bedded in properly!


I reckon on having about 5-6Kg through mine as well.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Having been putting off cleaning mine, I did so just now. Even to a cack handed old git like me, it was simple. I got 0.02 gm out of it.....well impressed........I was worried that I might have some cross contamination from that light shite @MildredM and @Mrboots2u might have put through it


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Having been putting off cleaning mine, I did so just now. Even to a cack handed old git like me, it was simple. I got 0.02 gm out of it.....well impressed........I was worried that I might have some cross contamination from that light shite @MildredM and @Mrboots2u might have put through it


Have you started growing a beard and buying vintage cameras and records yet?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have you started growing a beard and buying vintage cameras and records yet?


what do you mean, started?


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have you started growing a beard and buying vintage cameras and records yet?


Takes one to know one!


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Having been putting off cleaning mine, I did so just now. Even to a cack handed old git like me, it was simple. I got 0.02 gm out of it.....well impressed........I was worried that I might have some cross contamination from that light shite @MildredM and @Mrboots2u might have put through it


Hey! I left some in on purpose (to educate your palate)









Did I just say that?!!


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

My daughter and her friend will be moving out. They have a new old place and are renovating - by themselves and very thoroughly.

Why would I mention this? Well, I have had the Niche Zero for a while and thought to give her my old grinder...

She was glad, but hesitantly asked if she could get the Niche instead







explaining she liked the workflow and output better. So - now she will get a Pure White one from the march batch.

Thanks Niche for building them!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tohenk2 said:


> My daughter and her friend will be moving out. They have a new old place and are renovating - by themselves and very thoroughly.
> 
> Why would I mention this? Well, I have had the Niche Zero for a while and thought to give her my old grinder...
> 
> ...


The non industrial look definitely appeals to the ladies...in fact when I look at my cat sitting upright like they do, I always think of the Niche when viewed from the front??


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Has anyone tried Niche in a DolciGusto ?
















Been thinking of trying it.

PS The one on the right is same dose 22sec shot and a lot more milk - my wife.

John


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

John...just stop it...you're triggering me...


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> John...just stop it...you're triggering me...


You mean you never bothered to see if a Niche would grind a pod? 

Laissez les bons temps rouler


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ban alert!!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> John...just stop it...you're triggering me...


Well at least your not something or the other to think that the dolce actually produced the drinks. Or maybe mot
















On the other hand if it was possible to get a refillable capsule that really didn't leak I would probably try it.

John

-


----------



## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Well the thing improves a lot after the first 5kg, then a bit more after 10, then more gradually after that.


Ah, I've had probably a kilo through my Niche so far; espresso based drinks are largely a weekend thing for me at the moment.

Hmm, I might start grinding beans for the daily 1-2 Caffetiere mugs to get that first 5 kg through it this year!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

moots said:


> Ah, I've had probably a kilo through my Niche so far; espresso based drinks are largely a weekend thing for me at the moment.
> 
> Hmm, I might start grinding beans for the daily 1-2 Caffetiere mugs to get that first 5 kg through it this year!


<sigh>..... is this a coffee lovers forum?</sigh>


----------



## moots (Nov 24, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> <sigh>..... is this a coffee lovers forum?</sigh>


I certainly love coffee!  Pre-ground Pact and recently Rave have sufficed for French Press, but the Niche is very easy to adjust for different grinds - I played with that today.

I'm quite new to espresso, I'm getting faster at it with fewer bad shots and less faff, so it will become a more regular weekday morning happening.

Also, it would have been nice to not be travelling so much in the last six months, my machine isn't portable, sadly. I've missed using it.


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> The non industrial look definitely appeals to the ladies...


The look does appeal to her as well.





DavecUK said:


> in fact when I look at my cat sitting upright like they do, I always think of the Niche when viewed from the front??


You curl the cord around the feet?


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> The non industrial look definitely appeals to the ladies...


O o o o oh! sexist [email protected]$tard

(ooof did I just type that)


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> The non industrial look definitely appeals to the ladies...in fact when I look at my cat sitting upright like they do, I always think of the Niche when viewed from the front??


My missus hates the look of it!


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> My missus hates the look of it!


She sounds very polite . . .


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MildredM said:


> She sounds very polite . . .


She is clearly


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> My missus hates the look of it!


Never question your wife judgement......after all, look whom she married


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

Ok. Its me again! I've tweaked the funnel so that it is taller and it gets narrower at the top. I think with this setup, its just about as messy as using the cup and shouldn't need RDT. The outside temp was ~ 36F when this video was taken. So humidity was pretty low, which should mean more static when grinding. Its reasonably clean I think.

This was a medium roast coffee. NZ was set to 10.5. 15g in -> 30g out. ~ 25s. Can't really see the shot mirror too well in the video. Its much easier to see in person. I'll need to find a better position for the camera when pulling a shot.

DaveC - Yes. its a bright orange color. Just for you, I will re-print all the parts with a more subdued color after I'm finished.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm just waiting for you to send me one to test....


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> My missus hates the look of it!


Nowadays there are operations you can have to help with this.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

jchung said:


> Ok. Its me again! I've tweaked the funnel so that it is taller and it gets narrower at the top. I think with this setup, its just about as messy as using the cup and shouldn't need RDT. The outside temp was ~ 36F when this video was taken. So humidity was pretty low, which should mean more static when grinding. Its reasonably clean I think.
> 
> This was a medium roast coffee. NZ was set to 10.5. 15g in -> 30g out. ~ 25s. Can't really see the shot mirror too well in the video. Its much easier to see in person. I'll need to find a better position for the camera when pulling a shot.
> 
> DaveC - Yes. its a bright orange color. Just for you, I will re-print all the parts with a more subdued color after I'm finished.


Love the rear view mirror


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

There are rituals and then there are rituals niche takes it to a new level


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Love the rear view mirror


Thanks! This is the mirror I use. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B008Z6842W/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Perfect use of the magnetic tamper mount on the Breville (Sage) Dual Boiler.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> There are rituals and then there are rituals niche takes it to a new level


Like this one Dave














triggered...


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Those Kafatek folk - Faffer is their second name


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Like this one Dave


Thanks Dave, that's 2-37 mins I'll never see again or a coffee at the rate he was going


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

********** said:


> Thanks Dave, that's 2-37 mins I'll never see again or a coffee at the rate he was going


I'd have finished my drink in that time


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

joey24dirt said:


> I'd have finished my drink in that time


Likewise...


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Made such a mess as well. 3/10


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Made such a mess as well. 3/10


It's the video that just keeps giving....


----------



## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Like this one Dave


.... but ... but, then he drops half of it on the bench, and tamps *completely* off level.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Like this one Dave


Only Monolth owners can't fit making a coffee into one YouTube video - 2:37 and he has only prepared the portafilter!


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Apologies to normal Monolith owners - obviously this one is special


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Stevebee said:


> Only Monolth owners can't fit making a coffee into one YouTube video - 2:37 and he has only prepared the portafilter!


Didn't show the perfect shot it has to produce either and no refractometer to test the extraction.







Some people miss out some really important factors.

It reminded me to stir the beans as well. I completely forgot to do that.

John

-


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think he is in some strange masonic brotherhood offshoot. Did you notice that he had his left sleeve rolled up whilst the sleeve on the right arm was in the normal position. Also, he is single. I deduce that from the fact that the offending sleeve on his right arm had what appeared to be either a tear in it or kebab juice from last nights takeaway


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

RDT and still loads of static, hmm.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

And I was thinking about getting one.


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> And I was thinking about getting one.


You'll need to pass the Pedant's Test first


----------



## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

If you think that's bad wait until you try a Sage Grinder Pro .. five different sieves







..


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

MildredM said:


> You'll need to pass the Pedant's Test first


??


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> It's the video that just keeps giving....


Yawn yawn, drag up the old stuff Dave, perhaps some more talented user of proper single dosing machines will post up some videos,


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think it shows up the frailties of the owner rather than the machine....I am sure not everyone would fanny on like that (except Snakehips!)


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Fact is everyone will have their routine and each will take varying times to get to the end, there are some tools out there who should just not have the equipment they have, but everyone is free to buy what they want and use it however they like


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Fact S everyone will have their routine and each will take varying times to get to the end, there are some tools out there who should just not have the equipment they have, but everyone is free to buy what they want and use it however they like


Thanks for your comprehensive answer.....LOL......and who told you I was a tool?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> ...and who told you I was a tool?


It all depends which tool you are, some are more useful than others


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

a chocolate fireguard can be handy if you are hungry


----------



## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> Fact is everyone will have their routine and each will take varying times to get to the end, there are some tools out there who should just not have the equipment they have, but everyone is free to buy what they want and use it however they like


Absolutely - but if they then post a video on the internet, then a certain degree of peanut throwing is to be expected


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Of course, like our own posted videos


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

jchung said:


> Ok. Its me again! I've tweaked the funnel so that it is taller and it gets narrower at the top. I think with this setup, its just about as messy as using the cup and shouldn't need RDT. The outside temp was ~ 36F when this video was taken. So humidity was pretty low, which should mean more static when grinding. Its reasonably clean I think.
> 
> This was a medium roast coffee. NZ was set to 10.5. 15g in -> 30g out. ~ 25s. Can't really see the shot mirror too well in the video. Its much easier to see in person. I'll need to find a better position for the camera when pulling a shot.
> 
> DaveC - Yes. its a bright orange color. Just for you, I will re-print all the parts with a more subdued color after I'm finished.


get on with it!!









i applaud people who like to tinker with stuff and like to try and modify things but really this is all totally unnecessary. I moaned about the grind cup to begin with but now I've been using it for a few months the niche is about as easy a grinder to use as there is. What you lose with the cup you gain with the flexibility of single dosing.


----------



## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

GingerBen said:


> get on with it!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps my technique with the cup is lacking. I had a number of problems of getting an even distribution in the basket when grinding into the cup and then to the basket. How do you go about doing this? I've followed DaveC's video and I can't seem to consistently get a good distribution in the basket.


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Fact is everyone will have their routine and each will take varying times to get to the end, there are some tools out there who should just not have the equipment they have, but everyone is free to buy what they want and use it however they like


Let's put it this way . . . He's got the equipment but his technique is a little lacking. Still, it has to be said, he isn't rushing it, and that's a point in his favour


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

mildredm said:


> let's put it this way . . . He's got the equipment but his technique is a little lacking. Still, it has to be said, he isn't rushing it, and that's a point in his favour


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jchung said:


> Perhaps my technique with the cup is lacking. I had a number of problems of getting an even distribution in the basket when grinding into the cup and then to the basket. How do you go about doing this? I've followed DaveC's video and I can't seem to consistently get a good distribution in the basket.


In my limited experience, those smaller pf's can be little buggers to get absolutely right! Carry on the good work and remember, your coffee is only as good as you think it is.....thats why mine is perfect!


----------



## tocateclas (Nov 29, 2014)

jchung said:


> Perhaps my technique with the cup is lacking. I had a number of problems of getting an even distribution in the basket when grinding into the cup and then to the basket. How do you go about doing this? I've followed DaveC's video and I can't seem to consistently get a good distribution in the basket.


That's what I do:



tocateclas said:


> Humble video about transferring and distributing grinds:


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

tocateclas said:


> That's what I do:


That's more or less what I mentioned in the break off Niche thread. Might be worth posting the video in that as well. Only difference really is I don't tap the sides to level and used a cheap Amazon chisel tool to pre tamp.

John

-


----------



## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

jchung said:


> Perhaps my technique with the cup is lacking. I had a number of problems of getting an even distribution in the basket when grinding into the cup and then to the basket. How do you go about doing this? I've followed DaveC's video and I can't seem to consistently get a good distribution in the basket.


portafilter on top and flip. Give it a sort of NSEW style shake, sharp tap on bench and remove the cup. 9/10 are fine and I then put a coffee catcher ring

on, quick stir with a toothpick and go from there. Takes less than 20 seconds probably.


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

mctrials23 said:


> It's quite noticeable and the video doesn't highlight it that well. Gonna ask the Niche guys if they know what it is at any rate.


Old comment I know but my Niche is making a slightly different noise today, high pitched a little like the vacuum cleaner noise others have mentioned. Did you get a response from Niche on this? I haven't actually cleaned mine out yet (I know I know) so going to do that this afternoon but doubt that would be the cause of a change in noise.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Inglorious Alf said:


> Old comment I know but my Niche is making a slightly different noise today, high pitched a little like the vacuum cleaner noise others have mentioned. Did you get a response from Niche on this? I haven't actually cleaned mine out yet (I know I know) so going to do that this afternoon but doubt that would be the cause of a change in noise.


You can probably hear gear noise and have only just noticed it. It's been mentioned before and that's what I think it is.

John

-


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

ajohn said:


> You can probably hear gear noise and have only just noticed it. It's been mentioned before and that's what I think it is.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Thanks John. It's strange though as the noise has definitely changed from before.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Inglorious Alf said:


> Old comment I know but my Niche is making a slightly different noise today, high pitched a little like the vacuum cleaner noise others have mentioned. Did you get a response from Niche on this? I haven't actually cleaned mine out yet (I know I know) so going to do that this afternoon but doubt that would be the cause of a change in noise.


Alf, have you emailed this to Niche in case there is an actual problem. I am sure they would wish to help


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Alf, have you emailed this to Niche in case there is an actual problem. I am sure they would wish to help


No I haven't but I will do, thanks


----------



## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Inglorious Alf said:


> Old comment I know but my Niche is making a slightly different noise today, high pitched a little like the vacuum cleaner noise others have mentioned. Did you get a response from Niche on this? I haven't actually cleaned mine out yet (I know I know) so going to do that this afternoon but doubt that would be the cause of a change in noise.


The Niche guys were great. I emailed them with the video and got an email back quickly and then they offered to call me and discuss it. A few days later they called me and we spoke on the phone for 20 minutes and he basically said that they have tested the motors to buggery and they are bombproof, its probably just a slight misalignment somewhere or something rubbing. He said they are happy to take a look at it if I want to send it back and if there is an issue they will obviously fix it. He was genuinely interested to know what it might be. He also said that if I had any issues in the future they would be happy to fix it and just to let them know if anything goes wrong.

Fantastic service and it was good to chat with them about it. I haven't sent it back because I trust that its not an issue that is effecting the functionality and I might open it up and have a quick look myself if the curiosity gets the better of me.

I would suggest you give them an email just to let them know at any rate. Honestly the whole experience has made me appreciate the Niche that little bit more.


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

mctrials23 said:


> The Niche guys were great. I emailed them with the video and got an email back quickly and then they offered to call me and discuss it. A few days later they called me and we spoke on the phone for 20 minutes and he basically said that they have tested the motors to buggery and they are bombproof, its probably just a slight misalignment somewhere or something rubbing. He said they are happy to take a look at it if I want to send it back and if there is an issue they will obviously fix it. He was genuinely interested to know what it might be. He also said that if I had any issues in the future they would be happy to fix it and just to let them know if anything goes wrong.
> 
> Fantastic service and it was good to chat with them about it. I haven't sent it back because I trust that its not an issue that is effecting the functionality and I might open it up and have a quick look myself if the curiosity gets the better of me.
> 
> I would suggest you give them an email just to let them know at any rate. Honestly the whole experience has made me appreciate the Niche that little bit more.


Thanks, this has put me at ease. I have emailed them anyway to see what they say but hopefully it's nothing to worry about, especially as they seem happy to fix it in the future if anything does go wrong.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctrials23 said:


> Fantastic service and it was good to chat with them about it. I haven't sent it back because I trust that its not an issue that is effecting the functionality and I might open it up and have a quick look myself if the curiosity gets the better of me.
> 
> I would suggest you give them an email just to let them know at any rate. Honestly the whole experience has made me appreciate the Niche that little bit more.


I have used a the same grinder for pretty much 1 year now, no high pitched noise and I've really used it (probably40 or 50kg through it or more), so it won't be a wear issue that's going to affect all grinders. It cant be anything to do with cleaning because all that spins at around 300 ish rpm. What does spin real fast is the motor (around 10,000 rpm) this is reduced down in a planetary gear train down to 330 by reduction gears, it's how it gets the huge torque multiplication. It could be as you have become used to it and the thing has bedded in you are simply more aware of the motor spinning at that speed. I would recommend not opening it up, you have registered the issue with Niche, just keep using it and don't open it.

I say this because if you open it, you disturb things and contaminate the crime scene so to speak. If it gets worse then returning it *unopened* will be much more useful to Niche, who might spot evidence (of the cause) you unwittingly destroy..


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Inglorious Alf said:


> Thanks, this has put me at ease. I have emailed them anyway to see what they say but hopefully it's nothing to worry about, especially as they seem happy to fix it in the future if anything does go wrong.


I've only noticed it a couple of timer when its running empty. Gears generally have to have some play and considering what is in Niche I personally think it's remarkably quiet.







Think of hand power tools but the noise is being blown out on those and they are likely to use a different style of gearing. What may be happening is that there is a slightly uneven load on the motor at times - maybe some tiny fraction of a gram on one side of the burs. Hard to say but that sort of thing could explain it or effectively no load at all. When it's actually grinding beans any play in the gears will be taken up.

My Niche is in a rather dark place at the moment. One thing I did do early on was shine a bright torch on the grinds coming out to be sure that had actually stopped. Very little added but a longer time than I thought it would be.

John

-


----------



## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm interested in the Niche. I have a lever machine (La Pav), quite a recent purchase and I'm getting great results even after a few weeks. I have studied the process so I'm pretty much 90%+ of the way there with it. I currently use a Lido E T. The Niche is of interest mainly from a labour saving point off view - I want single dose and low retention too (hence the Niche). I'm looking for advice on whether the grind from the Niche will simply equal or better my Lido E T. I've no issue with the Lido E T grind so I want to work out whether £500 spent on the Niche will simply make my life easier or will it improve my shots?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CliveM2 said:


> I'm interested in the Niche. I have a lever machine (La Pav), quite a recent purchase and I'm getting great results even after a few weeks. I have studied the process so I'm pretty much 90%+ of the way there with it. I currently use a Lido E T. The Niche is of interest mainly from a labour saving point off view - I want single dose and low retention too (hence the Niche). I'm looking for advice on whether the grind from the Niche will simply equal or better my Lido E T. I've no issue with the Lido E T grind so I want to work out whether £500 spent on the Niche will simply make my life easier or will it improve my shots?


It will make your life easier, which may in turn improve the strike rate of good shots (rather than necessarily make your good shots better). E.g. easier to make fine adjustments, faster to grind a fresh dose after an unsatisfactory shot.


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

CliveM2 said:


> I'm interested in the Niche. I have a lever machine (La Pav), quite a recent purchase and I'm getting great results even after a few weeks. I have studied the process so I'm pretty much 90%+ of the way there with it. I currently use a Lido E T. The Niche is of interest mainly from a labour saving point off view - I want single dose and low retention too (hence the Niche). I'm looking for advice on whether the grind from the Niche will simply equal or better my Lido E T. I've no issue with the Lido E T grind so I want to work out whether £500 spent on the Niche will simply make my life easier or will it improve my shots?


I have no experience with a Lido, but I've owned a Pharos for three years and was surprised to find that the Niche tastes quite different, maybe not categorically better but I prefer it. I wasn't expecting it to be as good really, so was pleasantly surprised.


----------



## Niche Coffee (Aug 4, 2017)

It would be great if you could answer our short survey about the grinder below so we can continue to improve our services to you

https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/ND3ZTFB

Also if you have any questions or problems, please don't hesitate to reach out to [email protected], we love talking to fellow coffee enthusiasts and will always try our best to help!


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Niche Coffee said:


> It would be great if you could answer our short survey about the grinder below so we can continue to improve our services to you
> 
> https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/ND3ZTFB
> 
> Also if you have any questions or problems, please don't hesitate to reach out to [email protected], we love talking to fellow coffee enthusiasts and will always try our best to help!


Just done this, 5 or 6 questions I think, takes seconds


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Done! Takes a few seconds. Worthwhile I think.


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Completed


----------



## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Just done this too. Great to be able to give feedback directly to the manufacturer so they can tweak things if necessary.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Done it!


----------



## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

CliveM2 said:


> I'm interested in the Niche. I have a lever machine (La Pav), quite a recent purchase and I'm getting great results even after a few weeks. I have studied the process so I'm pretty much 90%+ of the way there with it. I currently use a Lido E T. The Niche is of interest mainly from a labour saving point off view - I want single dose and low retention too (hence the Niche). I'm looking for advice on whether the grind from the Niche will simply equal or better my Lido E T. I've no issue with the Lido E T grind so I want to work out whether £500 spent on the Niche will simply make my life easier or will it improve my shots?


I have the exact same setup as you and am intending on getting the Niche later this year. For me I think the main thing is, as MWJB said, that dialling in is significantly less of a pain. Doing 3+ light-roasted 17g shots on my Lido E is a bit exhausting really, and so sometimes I just don't bother fine-tuning as much. I'm also not one to waste, so as long as my shot is *okay* I will drink it rather than pour it down the sink. I also like to entertain so the Niche will help a lot with that, especially as next year I plan on getting a pump machine. All that said, my impressions from people who moved from Lido E to Niche has been that the grind quality is better, and will get you a better shot at its top end, but it's not going to be a whole new world of flavour.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Is anyone else noticing the markings around the dial don't stand up at all well to cleaning? Perhaps these need to be etched in rather than just printed on? I can't see the text lasting for that long as it's already lifting off and smudging under being polished with just a cotton cloth.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

rdpx said:


> Is anyone else noticing the markings around the dial don't stand up at all well to cleaning? Perhaps these need to be etched in rather than just printed on? I can't see the text lasting for that long as it's already lifting off and smudging under being polished with just a cotton cloth.
> 
> [IMG alt="" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk//coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG]


Its funny, mine does not do that, but there again, I never clean it!


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Time for a ring of sticky back plastic ala blue peter.....and you should let Niche know. Or even that plastic that you lay down and it holds by suction (if you're good with scissors).


----------



## Inglorious Alf (Jul 2, 2017)

rdpx said:


> Is anyone else noticing the markings around the dial don't stand up at all well to cleaning? Perhaps these need to be etched in rather than just printed on? I can't see the text lasting for that long as it's already lifting off and smudging under being polished with just a cotton cloth.


What are you cleaning it with, wire wool?!


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Inglorious Alf said:


> What are you cleaning it with, wire wool?!


I mean, they did say a cloth... but perhaps they used a cloth with a splodge of T-cut?


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Inglorious Alf said:


> What are you cleaning it with, wire wool?!


No this is just from polishing with a soft cotton cloth.

I mentioned it on the survey monkey thing to them.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I mean, they did say a cloth... but perhaps they used a cloth with a splodge of T-cut?


Thinking about it I may have used a very small amount of 25% IPA cleaning solution on it a few weeks ago, this may have reacted with the kind of black paint they used for the lettering? I've never had a bad reaction with anything else I've cleaned with this before though...


----------



## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Of course its because of that, had this happened to me too on other devices


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

rdpx said:


> Thinking about it I may have used a very small amount of 25% IPA cleaning solution on it a few weeks ago, this may have reacted with the kind of black paint they used for the lettering? I've never had a bad reaction with anything else I've cleaned with this before though...


That will do it with some paints.....


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

webdoc said:


> Of course its because of that, had this happened to me too on other devices


It wasn't until the T-cut comment that it struck me!

I might have to be a bit more careful what I clean with that stuff from now on. Hopefully the damage to the paint is over and it won't keep coming off...

Oops!


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

What's the purpose of IPA anywhere near grinder?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

PPapa said:


> What's the purpose of IPA anywhere near grinder?


It gets rid of the nerves !


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

PPapa said:


> What's the purpose of IPA anywhere near grinder?


I've got a big bottle of it made up 1:3 with water to clean records with and it often gets used for other things. I have never previously had a problem using it on anything.

I have no recollection whether I actually did use it on the Niche, but it's possible.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

On the coffee machines and grinders I have had, nothing ever touches them apart from a slightly water moisten and a dry microfibre cloth for cleaning the exterior surfaces. It has been doing the trick for the past 7 years.


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Just saw the incredible nice wood Joey made for a Niche. Wow.


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

tohenk2 said:


> Just saw the incredible nice wood Joey made for a Niche. Wow.


From grind to grinder! 

Laissez les bons temps rouler


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> From grind to grinder!
> 
> Laissez les bons temps rouler


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

tohenk2 said:


> Just saw the incredible nice wood Joey made for a Niche. Wow.


I'll let someone else share the pictures. Don't want to seem like I'm touting for business


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Was that a hint? (Ok... But I only can rip it from Instagram)


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)




----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

They look really nice, bit of bling for a black or white Niche.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Need to see them on a machine!


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Not so blingy!


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

MildredM I wish I had Niches like yours.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MildredM said:


> Not so blingy!


Noooooooooooooooo


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Need to see them on a machine!


+1


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Need to see them on a machine!


I've had word back, and the postie left a calling card  tomorrow now


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Noooooooooooooooo


It's just there as a reminder


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

In the quantities the Niche is selling, you could have a job for life


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> In the quantities the Niche is selling, you could have a job for life


Me or Mildred ?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> Me or Mildred ?


You, if just 10 % of people who have bought one alread one order your wood details, that's over 100 sets....


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> You, if just 10 % of people who have bought one alread one order your wood details, that's over 100 sets....


I'd better start knocking kids off their skateboards hehe


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> I'd better start knocking kids off their skateboards hehe


Thaty's 250 kids you have to take out....you need to be careful to not cause too much damage to the boards and have the damage in the right places. I think they look really good though. Will make a black niche look like a Liquorish Allsort and a white one look like rainbow candy....I really do like em.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Thaty's 250 kids you have to take out....you need to be careful to not cause too much damage to the boards and have the damage in the right places. I think they look really good though. Will make a black niche look like a Liquorish Allsort and a white one look like rainbow candy....I really do like em.


Thanks Dave, appreciate the kind words. I'm just gutted they didn't arrive today. We could've had pictures to laugh at when they don't fit


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Not so blingy!


Those spotty mugs tho! Need to see latte art in those.


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> My missus hates the look of it!


Bet she doesn't approve cats either... 

by the way, one of them crowdfunded Comical Purr grinders is soon to be... with me


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I noticed this over on home-barista. thanks to them........does anyone think it makes sense?

#738: by pafcio0 » Feb 06, 2019, 8:59 am

I think I found a pretty neat hidden feature in my Niche, which I use mostly for pour overs:

I believe it is possible to calibrate the grinder in the way, where numbers are grams of the pour over's dose, and this grind set is perfect for the brew size then.

On my Niche I got "zero" on number 20. Then turn 360 degrees left and I have setting ready for 20g pourover.

Number 12 - 12g/200ml, 30 - 30g/500ml.

It works pretty cool for me, could you guys try it and confirm? Or not?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Not trying to dampen enthusiasm, but isn't the Niche using espresso burrs?

Not saying people care about stuff like that, but still.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dev said:


> Not trying to dampen enthusiasm, but isn't the Niche using espresso burrs?
> 
> Not saying people care about stuff like that, but still.


What's the difference?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

More fines at coarser settings. Maybe a significant amount since the Niche is marketed a "single dose" grinder.


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## Cjogo (Aug 11, 2017)

Never heard of espresso burrs. Heard of Flat or Conical burrs. Grind for espresso ( fine ) up to coarse for French press.

I believe thread on the shaft defines grind size.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If you haven't heard about it, I suppose it doesn't exist.

Do you know if Mazzer calls the Kony an all purpose grinder?

Funnily enough, the Mazzer ZM can be equipped with 3 types of flat burrs, for different purposes.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> If you haven't heard about it, I suppose it doesn't exist.
> 
> Do you know if Mazzer calls the Kony an all purpose grinder?
> 
> Funnily enough, the Mazzer ZM can be equipped with 3 types of flat burrs, for different purposes.


Perhaps the Niche has a wider grinding range than a Kony, which as you well know, is an espresso grinder.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Come on guys, it's not rocket science. Traditional espresso, the one that uses blends and medium to dark roasts on traditional 9 bar pump machines, benefits from the uneven distribution of particle sizes that a conical grinder produces. Otoh alternative brew methods require a more even particle and that's the reason many use a bulk/grocery grinder,

Even the lowly Helor 101 comes with sets of burrs, one for espresso and one for brew.

To the best of my knowledge, there's no turkish to french press conical burr grinder. At least not one from a reputable manufacturer.

It would've been bad for business if Niche marketed their grinder as espresso only.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> Come on guys, it's not rocket science. Traditional espresso, the one that uses blends and medium to dark roasts on traditional 9 bar pump machines, benefits from the uneven distribution of particle sizes that a conical grinder produces. Otoh alternative brew methods require a more even particle and that's the reason many use a bulk/grocery grinder,
> 
> Even the lowly Helor 101 comes with sets of burrs, one for espresso and one for brew.
> 
> ...


It also would've been a lie as people have proven it's capable of grinding for multiple brew methods.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> Come on guys, it's not rocket science. Traditional espresso, the one that uses blends and medium to dark roasts on traditional 9 bar pump machines, benefits from the uneven distribution of particle sizes that a conical grinder produces. Otoh alternative brew methods require a more even particle and that's the reason many use a bulk/grocery grinder,
> 
> Even the lowly Helor 101 comes with sets of burrs, one for espresso and one for brew.
> 
> ...


Here we go again......have you got a Niche? If yes, then you are talking from experience and I am happy to join in with you. if you do not have a Niche, then stop trying to cause arguments with your theoretical claptrap. Declare.......


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I suppose ignorance is a bliss in my case, as it [the Niche] works for me!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Here we go again......have you got a Niche? If yes, then you are talking from experience and I am happy to join in with you. if you do not have a Niche, then stop trying to cause arguments with your theoretical claptrap. Declare.......


Just don't feed a troll, David.

In another thread, dev claimed that e37sd is not a single doser as it doesn't grind fast enough! Niche, apparently, falls into the same category.

Source:

New Ceado E37SD Single-dose Grinder

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=6813&share_tid=48352&share_pid=660777&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowpost%2Ephp%3Fp%3D660777&share_type=t


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Here we go again......have you got a Niche? If yes, then you are talking from experience and I am happy to join in with you. if you do not have a Niche, then stop trying to cause arguments with your theoretical claptrap. Declare.......


That's silly fanboy rebuttal.

Does the Niche use conical espresso burrs? Or does it employ some kind of magic that no other conical burr grinder has?

I haven't said the Niche can't be used for alternative methods but there are probably better grinders for that. Baratza Forte BG being one of them.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

PPapa said:


> Just don't feed a troll, David.
> 
> In another thread, dev claimed that e37sd is not a single doser as it doesn't grind fast enough! Niche, apparently, falls into the same category.
> 
> ...


Instead of calling me names have you actually come up with some sort of valid argument? Or are you just strawman-ing and cherry picking my posts?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> That's silly fanboy rebuttal.
> 
> Does the Niche use conical espresso burrs? Or does it employ some kind of magic that no other conical burr grinder has?
> 
> I haven't said the Niche can't be used for alternative methods but there are probably better grinders for that. Baratza Forte BG being one of them.


Did you understand me or not. If you have a Niche, then please say so and continue a conversation on the Niche owners experience thread. if you do not have a Niche, please tell us so we can discount your drivel.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> That's silly fanboy rebuttal.
> 
> Does the Niche use conical espresso burrs? Or does it employ some kind of magic that no other conical burr grinder has?
> 
> I haven't said the Niche can't be used for alternative methods but there are probably better grinders for that. Baratza Forte BG being one of them.


Can you provide a UK link to a Baratza Forte BG where the price is comparable to a niche?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Now, before those forum members who seem to be serially offended by my stance run off and complain to the site owners about my aggression, let me re state. I am happy to have a conversation with another owner. he does not have to like his purchase and I would respect whatever is his or her viewpoint. I will not stand idly by whilst people who do not own one join a thread and hypothetically try to dismantle something. that is the same stance I would take on anything, not just a Niche


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Did you understand me or not. If you have a Niche, then please say so and continue a conversation on the Niche owners experience thread. if you do not have a Niche, please tell us so we can discount your drivel.


Is the Niche some sort of unicorn, one-of-kind, magic beans, kool-aid grinder? Because I don't see why it can't have the same benefits or shortcomings as any other conical burr grinder.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> Instead of calling me names have you actually come up with some sort of valid argument? Or are you just strawman-ing and cherry picking my posts?


Well you either said it d you did not. Which would you like us to proceed with


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Did you understand me or not. If you have a Niche, then please say so and continue a conversation on the Niche owners experience thread. if you do not have a Niche, please tell us so we can discount your drivel.





dev said:


> Is the Niche some sort of unicorn, one-of-kind, magic beans, kool-aid grinder? Because I don't see why it can't have the same benefits or shortcomings as any other conical burr grinder.


Sorry dfk, Looks like he doesn't understand your simple question!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dev said:


> Is the Niche some sort of unicorn, one-of-kind, magic beans, kool-aid grinder? Because I don't see why it can't have the same benefits or shortcomings as any other conical burr grinder.


If you had added ,'at that price point' to your statement then the answer is yes. What exactly is your point Dev. I mean, if you want to argue then fine. I will play along for a bit. If you are being serious which I doubt, then that's fine as well. I like to read between the lines matey, and so far I have 2 letters in place of a 4 letter word that starts and ends with 'T'


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dev said:


> Instead of calling me names have you actually come up with some sort of valid argument? Or are you just strawman-ing and cherry picking my posts?


No, I just don't seem to have a reason to have an argument with someone who throws out statements without any evidence. Heck, they aren't even statements, just some bold claims that do not have a reasonable hypothesis behind it.

And no, burrs from an espresso grinder don't make them "espresso burrs".


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> If you had added ,'at that price point' to your statement then the answer is yes. What exactly is your point Dev. I mean, if you want to argue then fine. I will play along for a bit. If you are being serious which I doubt, then that's fine as well. I like to read between the lines matey, and so far I have 2 letters in place of a 4 letter word that starts and ends with 'T'


I guess you have a problem. I'm not the one talking about alternative methods on an espresso grinder.

Will people care if this in not the best grinder for alternative methods? Probably not.

Do people know there are espresso burrs and other type of burrs? Probably not.

It's a home grinder, built to a price, that does most methods well. But that doesn't change the fact that it uses espresso burrs or that it's not actually "single dose" friendly.

To answer someone's question about the Forte BG, it's 150 pounds more expensive in the UK, but well worth it if you're serious about brewing.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have no problem in discussing on an owners thread with other owners.

I think you overestimate your own knowledge and underestimate forum members if you think we do not know that firstly, the Niche is exactly what it purports to be and secondly, that there are espresso and other sorts of burrs. We have many EK43 owners, but that is to swop burrs on a specialist grinder for a brew method, a bit like swopping ceramic for steel on a Vario to allow the same grinder to be used for brew as well as espresso.

Why please is it not single dose friendly and back your answer up

Oh, and I know have a 'W" to add to my 'T' and 'T'......just one letter missing now


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

dev said:


> To answer someone's question about the Forte BG, it's 150 pounds more expensive in the UK, but well worth it if you're serious about brewing.


The BG seems aimed at a totally different market, are you saying it's perfect at everything?

This is what I read about the Forte BG "The Baratza Forté BG is designed for coarse brew methods with a commercial setting in mind"


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> To answer someone's question about the Forte BG, it's 150 pounds more expensive in the UK, but well worth it if you're serious about brewing.


 So £150 more (assuming that's a realistic price - with no link you could well be speaking out of your arris) for a grinder that won't do spro too. I'll pass thanks as it wouldn't be fit for the purpose of switching between multiple brew methods.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If you enjoy lighter roasts, the Forte might be better.

Don't confuse the Forte with the Vario, which is a plasticy cheapo master of none sort of product. Scott Rao makes a pretty solid argument for the Forte.

There's always a difference between knowing and caring. Knowing the Niche uses espresso burrs has nothing to do with caring how much that impacts other methods.

https://www.coffeeomega.co.uk/product/baratza-forte-grinder/

https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2019/1/5/baratza-forte-vs-ek43-which-is-better


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dev said:


> More fines at coarser settings. Maybe a significant amount since the Niche is marketed a "single dose" grinder.


Most hand & electric grinders with conical burrs used for brewed, have burrs that are used in espresso & espresso capable grinders.

Fine immersion brews & very fine drip dovetail with coarse espresso ranges.

If you have too many small particles, grind coarser. With any grinder, going coarser reduces fines.

Scott clearly states he has the Forte AP, not the BG.

Again, you are repeating a lot of 'received wisdom' about grinders, even/uneven distribution & burrs, with no tangible info to put it in context.

Describe in some sort of value what "even", "uneven" mean? Espresso grinds have a fines peak around 50um whatever the grinder, this peak diminishes as you go coarser. There aren't enough LPA plots with enough resolution publicly available for you to come to conclusions about evenness at various settings. Nor do you know what the threshold is for grind evenness for brewed coffee.

You know the Niche has espresso burrs, you might care greatly, but what's the point in caring if it's not relevant in the real world to a £500 domestic grinder?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> If you enjoy lighter roasts, the Forte might be better.
> 
> Don't confuse the Forte with the Vario, which is a plasticy cheapo master of none sort of product. Scott Rao makes a pretty solid argument for the Forte.
> 
> There's always a difference between knowing and caring. Knowing the Niche uses espresso burrs has nothing to do with caring how much that impacts other methods.


The Forte is a flat burr grinder so that's just stating the obvious! If you want to compare apples with apples you'll need to find a conical burr grinder in a similar price range to compare the Niche with.

You also need to switch to the AP (all purpose) ceramic burrs if you want to grind for espresso. There is no switching back & forth at will between brew methods without wasted beans like the niche is capable of.

If you're looking for a grinder for a *single* course brew method using light roast beans which doesn't single dose & may suffer retention then yes, the Forte BG may be a better fit for you. It'll have to be seriously reduced from the £850 price tag to be remotely worth comparing with a £500 grinder though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I know have all 4 letters


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dev said:


> Is the Niche some sort of unicorn, one-of-kind, magic beans, kool-aid grinder? Because I don't see why it can't have the same benefits or shortcomings as any other conical burr grinder.


I read the recent posts on the thread and peoples comments... My view @dev is, you don't own one, don't say whether you have used one or what your experience of the grinder is. However you seem happy to make lots of definite self assured comments about the grinder. I find it amazing that you feel so confident to do this. I suspect in face to face encounters you would not be so confident, unless you like to defend position based on ignorance. I have vastly more experience of grinders, roasting, machines than you and yet even I am reluctant to make such definite statements about something I have never used. Before you say I am a fanboy defending the Niche, or to show you evidence which seems your easy response....all I am doing is questioning your judgment in the way you post.

As for whether the Niche is any good or not, I think owners and potential purchasers will decide.....I don't have definitive figures, but I think it's pretty obvious that the vast majority (certainly over 95%) seem to like the grinder very much indeed. They seem to sell about 100 grinders a month just in the limited country markets they have targeted. Considering the wait people have to get the grinder, this all doesn't seem too bad. Which makes your comments even more baffling as most people who own one don't seem to share your opinion (me included)?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I read the recent posts on the thread and peoples comments... My view @dev is, you don't own one, don't say whether you have used one or what your experience of the grinder is. However you seem happy to make lots of definite self assured comments about the grinder. I find it amazing that you feel so confident to do this. I suspect in face to face encounters you would not be so confident, unless you like to defend position based on ignorance. I have vastly more experience of grinders, roasting, machines than you and yet even I am reluctant to make such definite statements about something I have never used. Before you say I am a fanboy defending the Niche, or to show you evidence which seems your easy response....all I am doing is questioning your judgment in the way you post.
> 
> As for whether the Niche is any good or not, I think owners and potential purchasers will decide.....I don't have definitive figures, but I think it's pretty obvious that the vast majority (certainly over 95%) seem to like the grinder very much indeed. They seem to sell about 100 grinders a month just in the limited country markets they have targeted. Considering the wait people have to get the grinder, this all doesn't seem too bad. Which makes your comments even more baffling as most people who own one don't seem to share your opinion (me included)?


How many kitchen friendly, electrical, large conical burr grinders are there available on the market right now? What's the actual competition of the Niche? Sette?

Have I said the Niche is a bad product? No. Is Niche a better grinder for espresso compared to other methods? Probably yes.

But in all fairness, if other manufacturers aren't marketing their conical burr grinders as all purpose, maybe Niche shouldn't do that either.

LE: I have no use for an electrical grinder at home and I would never use the Niche in a commercial setting. But I have recommended the Niche many times to people that enjoy a traditional espresso.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dev said:


> But in all fairness, if other manufacturers aren't marketing their conical burr grinders as all purpose, maybe Niche shouldn't do that either.


Perhaps they will read your comments and compare them to all the others who are using the Niche for both brew and espresso and brew only, if they get enough *owners* echoing your opinion, perhaps they might review their marketing. For me it's been the first grinder that's incredibly easy to move from espresso to brewed and back again, without having to dial in. So much so I now have more brewed than I used to. I can also have 3 coffees on the go with a grind setting number for each, smoothly and repeatable moving between them. Again it seems that many *owners* seem to share this view


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dev said:


> But in all fairness, if other manufacturers aren't marketing their conical burr grinders as all purpose, maybe Niche shouldn't do that either.


On what basis? Not sure what the perceived "fairness" is here either, it's a random notion you plucked out of the air.

Most conical brew grinders are in the under £250 range, designed to go from fine brewed to coarse in 180 degrees of adjustment, because you don't need the fine incremental adjustment that you need for espresso.

For espresso grinders you get finer adjustment resolution.

Baratza's/Etzinger's AP burr is *A*ll *P*urpose


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@dev, which grinders have you owned, or own? Have you tried dialling an Eureka or Mazzer I grinder back and forward for espresso and brew? There's a reason why some people rather have two grinders than dialling one back and forward, and, let me tell you, it's not usually because of the type of burrs they are equipped with.

I personally find the Niche very easy to go back and forwards, like the Kinu M68 I used to have, much easier than the Feld2 I have, and unlike the Profitec T64 or Eureka Mignon I used to have.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

The grinders you mentioned are built for espresso. That means they must offer a suficient range for minute adjustments in order to get the shot dialed just right. That's one of the reasons there aren't any commercial grade multi purpose grinders with the same set of burrs.

After that we get to burr geometry and why some grinders are better at something specific.

Imo a single dosed Niche, with the Mazzer burrs, at any grind setting will always produce enough fines that most users will get a good extraction without issues. That also means you don't need to juggle within an extensive range once you've established your setting.

A bit off topic, Rao mentioned in the comments he used the Forte with the metal burrs which makes it a BG. Otoh Baratza has a pretty comprehensive range of grinder fit for purpose and there's isn't a grinder recommended for everything. The Vario with ceramic burrs is a "master of none type grinder".

https://www.baratza.com/choosing-your-grinder/


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dev said:


> The grinders you mentioned are built for espresso. That means they must offer a suficient range for minute adjustments in order to get the shot dialed just right. That's one of the reasons there aren't any commercial grade multi purpose grinders with the same set of burrs.
> 
> After that we get to burr geometry and why some grinders are better at something specific.
> 
> ...


Ok. Thanks.

So, based on this, we agree that the Niche is capable of dialling backwards and forwards with ease, and therefore it can be easily used for different brew methods.

Are you specifically saying that the burrs used on the Niche are more suitable for espresso rather than brewed methods? If so, on what basis?

Ps: the Niche uses 63mm conical Mazzer Kony burrs.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dev said:


> Imo a single dosed Niche, with the Mazzer burrs, at any grind setting will always produce enough fines that most users will get a good extraction without issues. That also means you don't need to juggle within an extensive range once you've established your setting.


This is utterly meaningless twaddle. Break a bean, you get fines. WTF is enough fines?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dev said:


> Imo a single dosed Niche, with the Mazzer burrs, at any grind setting will always produce enough fines that most users will get a good extraction without issues. That also means you don't need to juggle within an extensive range once you've established your setting.


Yay a U-turn!

Perhaps now this thread can get back on the topic of Niche owners posting their experiences instead of some baratza fanboy trolling with twaddle he's picked up off the interwebs.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MWJB said:


> This is utterly meaningless twaddle. Break a bean, you get fines. WTF is enough fines?


Jinx! Who'd a thunk 2 peeps would post the word twaddle about exactly the same paragraph at the same time.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> Jinx! Who'd a thunk 2 peeps would post the word twaddle about exactly the same paragraph at the same time.


It's currently a twaddle rich environment


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Twaddlegate that.

Off-topic reigns supreme


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dev said:


> But in all fairness, if other manufacturers aren't marketing their conical burr grinders as all purpose, maybe Niche shouldn't do that either.


On that basis people should only buy deli grinders for multiple use - I mean they have labels on them for different brew methods. Often vertical flats of various designs as well. size up to 200mm. In practice many grinders are set for specific brewing methods. Some are just easier to adjust repeatedly than others

Someone does make a multiple use conical burr grinder actually. The main need is precise repeat settings. Sage. It uses a more powerful motor than the Baratza. I also come with a 450g grinds container. No 120g limit. The need for the extra power is burr geometry and rotation speed. Both influence grinding rates. Also on to off time ratios and temperature limits etc.

Big bur conical commercial grinders are big to up grinding rates at lower rotational speeds. They aren't intended for repeated setting changes - just like all other commercial grinder they are expected to be more or less left alone once set up. There is lots about on the different style of grind particles they generate. This in turn is reckoned to change taste. Taste is always a subjective thing so rather hard to be precise about it really. Take this bean for instance



> Rich, smoky and earthy coffee with a monotone smoothness and a sweet spicy kick.
> 
> 
> *Flavours* - earthy, spicy, smoky
> ...


Flavour is just a coffee tasters attempt to describe the beans taste. In practice others might see it as bitter in a none acidic manner. Sweetness comes in as a slight after taste but don't think sugar. Comparing that one with flat the brown part of the crema had a rather unpleasant taste. Niche - a stronger version of the taste the bean should have but that took a dose reduction over what I used on flat for the same output weight. I would be inclined to say that the crema from flats was "earthy", aint ever eaten any earth though - some component missing that the Niche / conicals provides. Another bean I have used is described as herbal, earthy. Again that is just an attempt to describe a herbal taste in technical terms.

So taking various pundits views on conical - flats on taste I'm inclined to go the taste way - more of it from conical. Only suitable for darker roast - very probably bull stuff.with bells on. In my view there is way too much scope in tuning to make a categorical view on that aspect.

John

-


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

dev said:


> If you enjoy lighter roasts, the Forte might be better.
> 
> Don't confuse the Forte with the Vario, which is a plasticy cheapo master of none sort of product. Scott Rao makes a pretty solid argument for the Forte.
> 
> ...


Just in case anybody is interested in the Forte BG, that's a pre VAT price.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Whatever the agenda in play from dev I have to say the Niche appeals because of it's simplicity and lack of electronics. I can't speak as an owner as I plan to order when their next batch is available.


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## martin_p (Feb 7, 2019)

I can speak as an owner since a few months. I backed the campaign early for a black one. My grinder experience is laughable in this company but it is what I could afford at the time and don't like to get rid of things that work (I had a Baratza Virtuoso that I sold after two weeks with the Niche). The Virtuoso was rubbish at Espresso and I knew it would be before I bought it but so it was at the limit of my budget and was quite a bit more expensive (new retail) than the used Rancilio Silvia I bought in non-working order and fixed up so it felt very expensive at the time. Now with the Niche it's as you'd expect a complete game changer and suddenly my skills and to some extent the Silvia are the weak link instead. It's really enjoyable to learn though when the grinder so reliably does what you dial it in to do and you can experiment with beans and grinds and get back to the settings you dialed in in your previous best attempt. My consistency is still very questionable but occasionally I pull off an amazing shot both in flow (I bought a naked portafilter shortly after I received the Niche) and taste and those cups are doubly enjoyable. Getting to feel a sense of achievement while sipping a great coffee is nice.


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## LM17 (Dec 21, 2015)

Does anyone have a photo of a Niche grinder and a PuqPress next to each other?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

LM17 said:


> Does anyone have a photo of a Niche grinder and a PuqPress next to each other?


 @MildredM maybe?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

YES!!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've had a few days of being Niched following no use for 4 days as I was away. Tuning not holding well and rather large static clumps. Took a look up the tube with a mirror and decided to get what was up there out.









Had an odd effect. I had been deciding on using 13 or 13.5g. With that in the tube 13 was noticeably more favourable. Oily beans or days of no use or combination of both - pass. I suspect mostly no use.

The grinds looked like they were blocking one half of the anti static thingy. The other side was only partially blocked. Brush for some reason wouldn't shift them. I had kept a few short wooden supermarket kebab sticks we ate a few weeks ago. One of those shifted it all easily. I use one of those for stirring the grinds, bit like a cocktail stick magnified by a factor of 2. Can't expect supermarkets to provide real kebabs, they'd rather have us eat more carbs to push our blood sugar levels up. Meat costs more.

Took a look inside and squeaky clean as usual. Just some grinds coating the bottom portion of the centre bur but that's about it.

John

-


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## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

MildredM said:


> YES!!


Im jealous.. how many grinders??


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

itn said:


> Im jealous.. how many grinders??


I think the Kenwood one was a loaner.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

itn said:


> Im jealous.. how many grinders??


Shhhhhhh!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

ajohn said:


> I had kept a few short wooden supermarket kebab sticks we ate a few weeks ago. One of those shifted it all easily. I use one of those for stirring the grinds, bit like a cocktail stick magnified by a factor of 2. *Can't expect supermarkets to provide real kebabs, they'd rather have us eat more carbs to push our blood sugar levels up. Meat costs more.*
> 
> *
> *
> ...


This is a cracking side note to the retention you were talking about.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

A bit late to the party...


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

joey24dirt said:


> A bit late to the party...


I'm also due for Feb delivery, haven't had a notification yet though.


----------



## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

The serious issue I have is that I can't decide on black or white...


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

itn said:


> Im jealous.. how many grinders??


A, B, C is easy as 1, 2, 3 a puqpress won't do for me...

(lyrics courtesy of the Jackson 5, obviously)


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

CliveM2 said:


> The serious issue I have is that I can't decide on black or white...


Get one of each.... I can't wait to see Joey's wood...on the grinder.


----------



## ncrc51 (Mar 14, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Get one of each.... I can't wait to see Joey's wood...on the grinder.


Does this have the same connotation in the UK as it does in the US?


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Get one of each.... I can't wait to see Joey's wood...on the grinder.


 PM for photos haha


----------



## Chap-a-chino (Mar 31, 2017)

ncrc51 said:


> Does this have the same connotation in the UK as it does in the US?


hopefully not!


----------



## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

ncrc51 said:


> Does this have the same connotation in the UK as it does in the US?


Do you want to see a pic while he's having a ***? Definitely I'm using the UK meaning..


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

ncrc51 said:


> Does this have the same connotation in the UK as it does in the US?


Only in the mornings...


----------



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I refuse to be drawn in to this thread and will step away from the keyboard NOW!


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I refuse to be drawn in to this thread and will step away from the keyboard NOW!


And I thought you'd recite the glorious Lumberjack song... @Snakehips to the rescue!


----------



## ncrc51 (Mar 14, 2018)

CliveM2 said:


> Do you want to see a pic while he's having a ***? Definitely I'm using the UK meaning..


Please, no.


----------



## ncrc51 (Mar 14, 2018)

MildredM said:


> I refuse to be drawn in to this thread and will step away from the keyboard NOW!


Please accept my sincere apology.


----------



## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Arriving tomorrow


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Fez said:


>


Careful with that link, not that someone detours your shipment 

Other than that, woohoo!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Hasi said:


> Careful with that link, not that someone detours your shipment
> 
> Other than that, woohoo!


Totally agree, posting links like that coul lose your grinder unless of course it has already arrived, @Hasi needs to remove his link as well. Would be a shame for your delivery to be delivered next month!


----------



## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Fixed!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

But has the delivery been moved


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Fixed


----------



## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Surely they wouldve sent me an email if it had been changed?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Fez said:


> Surely they wouldve sent me an email if it had been changed?


Of course I am just pulling your leg


----------



## rdo (Feb 8, 2019)

Hello,

I'm reading good things about this grinder, but I see it is an indiegogo project. I hope that the grinder is super reliable and doesn't break at all, but if this happens, who will service and repair it?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

rdo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm reading good things about this grinder, but I see it is an indiegogo project. I hope that the grinder is super reliable and doesn't break at all, but if this happens, who will service and repair it?


Niche support their grinder.


----------



## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm off the fence at last - I've just ordered a white Zero. The Indiegogo ordering page was a nightmare to complete, it doesn't take the browser's autofill text and it struggled to calculate shipping but I got there after 4 attempts.


----------



## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

Do we have much information on the motor, make, own in house designed and made etc to understand and future potential issues etc?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

itn said:


> Do we have much information on the motor, make, own in house designed and made etc to understand and future potential issues etc?


Do you have that info for other home market grinders


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

itn said:


> Do we have much information on the motor, make, own in house designed and made etc to understand and future potential issues etc?


Yes we do.

If you do a due diligence search on the web you will find , in various places , all the information you require.

You could , to save us the trouble, start by reading Niches' own site and maybe Dave C's review that is linked to there.

HTH?


----------



## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

I will reread it all but trying to understand the future reliability of the new product. I'm no way trying to knock it. I'm very tempted to take the plunge myself but just checking if anyone had this Information. No offence ment to anyone.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If you are worried about longevity and fixes then perhaps hold off for 12 months and see how the early adopters grinders pan out.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> If you are worried about longevity and fixes then perhaps hold off for 12 months and see how the early adopters grinders pan out.


That's good advice if you are concerned. This will make the oldest most hard worked grinder in the field around 2 years old and the rest around 15 months old. The general public started getting them last October and there are probably 500 or 600 grinders that age, then they were delivered in batches after that with almost 1200 sold to date. Reliability seems good with one that had a motor wired backwards by the motor factory







, but other than that, I am not aware of any mechanical failures or general reliability issues yet. Bootsies advice is good though if you want to be as super, extra, totally sure as you can be.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I should add, I have a horrible job ahead of me. I have to try and break some stuff on a Niche.l...well not try, I definitely have to break a part and see how hard it is to do. Martin couldn't understand my reluctance, especially as he is giving me the parts to do the tests...just goes against the grain to purposely break a thing. You guys are going to hate the video I make.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Oh you your going on my ignore list haha


----------



## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I should add, I have a horrible job ahead of me. I have to try and break some stuff on a Niche.l...well not try, I definitely have to break a part and see how hard it is to do.


Hmm sounds like you asking for suggestions







... - is it dishwasher safe?


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Show us the plastic inside







Looking frw


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Throw some stones through it?


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

ajohn said:


> I had kept a few short wooden supermarket kebab sticks we ate a few weeks ago. One of those shifted it all easily. I use one of those for stirring the grinds, bit like a cocktail stick magnified by a factor of 2. *Can't expect supermarkets to provide real kebabs, they'd rather have us eat more carbs to push our blood sugar levels up. Meat costs more.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Much as I am loath to defend supermarkets.......

Could I just ask @ajohn what was on the supermarket kebabs that was full of carbs?

and (tbh irrespective of what was on the supermarket kebabs) couldn't you have actually bought

some meat (from the supermarket or better still a butcher) to make kebabs.....

I suspect buying actual meat would be cheaper than buying kebabs.....


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Drewster said:


> Much as I am loath to defend supermarkets.......
> 
> Could I just ask @ajohn what was on the supermarket kebabs that was full of carbs?


We may eat a supermarket meal once a month. Lets just say that the kebabs would need rather a lot of something else to provide a decent sized meal.

Another clue. I happen to like cumberland pie something else that may come from a supermarket - usually Marks. Why is it that over many years the weight has stayed the same, the level of meat had gone down, potato increased and is their really cheese on top now.?

Final clue - current noises about peoples blood sugar levels. Their fault of course. Or is it.

Actually my wife generally cooks 7 nights a week and meat does usually come from a butchers.

John

-


----------



## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

joe said:


> Yes we do.
> 
> You could , to save us the trouble, start by reading Niches' own site and maybe Dave C's review that is linked to there.
> 
> HTH?


Joe, there is no need for the attitude. Answers like these put people off, generally speaking.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Unusually you have not answers the question which surely must be very little as kebabs are basically meat (perhaps some peppers and onions ) on a stick are they not!


----------



## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Bread, sugary sauces and sometimes fries in them


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Unusually you have not answers the question which surely must be very little as kebabs are basically meat (perhaps some peppers and onions ) on a stick are they not!


Can we stop talking about kebabs please. I'm about 3 clicks away from confirming order


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

webdoc said:


> Bread, sugary sauces and sometimes fries in them


I thought we were talking about kebab skewers not Saturday night out carb fests


----------



## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

coffeechap said:


> I thought we were talking about kebab skewers not Saturday night out carb fests


Oh my bad 

They still have some type of sugar in them too


----------



## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

joey24dirt said:


> Can we stop talking about kebabs please. I'm about 3 clicks away from confirming order


Did your Niche arrive yet? Curious about the fit of the rainbowy parts


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

webdoc said:


> Did your Niche arrive yet? Curious about the fit of the rainbowy parts


Yes it did. I'm just waiting for the first set of skate parts to come back to me for adjustments, then I'll post some pictures once happy with the fit


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

webdoc said:


> Joe, there is no need for the attitude. Answers like these put people off, generally speaking.


I don't want to get into a deep debate with you about this but I will say just this...

He was asking for information that no one ( except Dave on here ) would/could have any knowledge of.

If one has complex questions about a product the first place to start would be the manufacturers own site.

If he had started there he would have seen Daves' massively in depth review/breakdown of the Niche.

I pointed him in that direction.

( do you know who manufactured the motor in the Niche ? )

I notice you you don't answer his questions...you just pick me up on my answer. At least I made an attempt to point him in the right direction . Who's post is the more useful to him?

Apologies if you found my reply to him a little 'eggy'

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.............


----------



## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

I'll go hide in my corner now.. sorry guys my intention wasn't to cause any agro.


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

itn said:


> I'll go hide in my corner now.. sorry guys my intention wasn't to cause any agro.


Don't you worry about it... the trouble with the typed word is that it ia very hard to get the "tone of voice" right when replying to someone.

You have caused no aggro .

Did you get to read Daves' Haynes manual breakdown on the Niche?


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Focus! On! The! Topic!

After all, we're a friendly forum where people are allowed to post questions.

@Niche Coffee is on here, so if time allows maybe we're lucky and hear from the pros?


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

On topic....... my Niche is slated for delivery at 12 o'clock today !

Happy days.


----------



## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

joe said:


> Don't you worry about it... the trouble with the typed word is that it ia very hard to get the "tone of voice" right when replying to someone.
> 
> You have caused no aggro .
> 
> Did you get to read Daves' Haynes manual breakdown on the Niche?


I did have a read and have some confidence on his reply based on volumes sold etc. Also everyone's positive feedback says enough for me. It's in my list, and currently looking at some other cheaper 2nd hand options. If these don't work out then I will most likely also join the niche brigade to match up with my gaggia classic.


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

itn said:


> I did have a read and have some confidence on his reply based on volumes sold etc. Also everyone's positive feedback says enough for me.


Feedback can be a funny thing.

There can sometimes be a touch of the Emperors New Clothes about certain things. A head of steam builds up about a product and suddenly everyone has to have it.

I have a Eureka Minion and a Racilio Rocky . Of the two I like the Rocky best... it is slow compared to the Minion but quieter, grinds cooler and is easier to dial in.

I am lucky in that I can afford to order a Niche to compare against my other two. If I don't think that the Niche is a significant upgrade *to me* then it will be up for sale ( along with the Minion ) ( for one thing... I don't particularly like the design look of the Niche ... but if it performs well I will overlook that. )

Having read everything I possibly could before I ordered the Niche I have a level of confidence that it can't all be the Emperors New Clothes.

Few of us have enough money and enough real in depth knowledge to keep buying and road testing these expensive machines so we do rely on the experience of others to help us out .

Feedback can be a funny thing.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

itn said:


> I will reread it all but trying to understand the future reliability of the new product. I'm no way trying to knock it. I'm very tempted to take the plunge myself but just checking if anyone had this Information. No offence ment to anyone.


If you had read enough posts I don't think you would need to ask. Easy to summarise. It is not and never has been intended to be a commercial grinder.







The burrs are so info on how long those are likely to take to wear out is available. Early on Dave asked about the cost of a few parts that might wear out. The answer was not a lot even down to the part that flings the grinds out of the grinds chamber. We are talking a few £. The most expensive part that could wear out is the motor and gearbox. Even commercial grinder motors are not continuously rated but do make an assumption that there could be a queue of people waiting to use one







and if there were too many might run into grief. The other area that might differ there is type of bearings. Niche might use all plain or a mix with some ball races. Say all plain. There are plenty of things about that use similar items - food processing items, hand power tools and etc that see more run time than a home coffee grinder is likely to see. Sage grinders are not well known for problems in this area and use similar technology. Certain Baratza grinders do seem to have a problem in this area probably with lighter roasts - maybe more use than anticipated and motors burning out. Maybe unlike Niche they don't have a thermal cut out - I understand it does have one.

The switch might wear out. It has a nice positive action and if I try and switch it on very slowly SOMETHING THAT SHOULDN'T BE DONE it's still very much on or off - a good sign. It suggests that it will have a high cycle life.







How many 1,000's pass.

There are a couple of things that Dave could do to try and break one. Lash up a 1kg hopper full of beans, switch it on and leave it. When it cuts out still leave it. After a rather prolonged delay it will probably start up again and then switch off sooner. Then having done that and it's cooled down jam the burrs - he will probably find himself in need of a quality 3amp fuse for the plug. That's what they come fitted with. On the other hand the motor windings may burn out. I suspect the 3amp fuse stands a chance of protecting them but a lot depends on the motor design. If he jams the part that flings the grinds out it might just slip going on mine. Personally if I switched a set up like this on and things didn't spin I'd turn it off immediately.








I don't know how I have resisted taking mine apart to look.

John

-


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I am concerned about the motor, bearings(if not ball/cylinder type) and the gears to reduce the speed. I hope they are not similar to those used in kitchen hand mixers.

BR


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> I am concerned about the motor, bearings(if not ball/cylinder type) and the gears to reduce the speed. I hope they are not similar to those used in the kitchen hand mixers.
> 
> BR


Why we have had plenty of stuff along those lines that hasn't worn out and see plenty of use even a Lidl hand blender. My wife sometimes makes a gallon of soup with it for her cronies. The hand mixer same source was replaced with a kenwood. I had made bread with it several times. Your worrying about nothing. There has obviously been a lot of attention to detail it could well outlast a kenwood motor etc wise.

John

-


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Ajohn because I like real things, that is probably the reason I fell in love with coffee hobby so much. If I liked plastic toys, I would go S*** way.


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

IIRC the designer used to work for Kenwood. He will have no end of experience on component choice, duty cycle, failure rates etc. He has brought this to market knowing that it's his baby, with his name behind it. He has also had Dave go over it with a fine toothed comb suggesting ways to make it perform better and last longer. I bet there aren't many things in anyone's kitchen that have been so thoroughly engineered.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> Ajohn because I like real things, that is probably the reason I fell in love with coffee hobby so much. If I liked plastic toys, I would go S*** way.


You sound to me like someone who wants a reason not to buy one. Fair enough don't. Where plastic toys come from in relationship to Niche or even Lidl kitchen stuff actually pass. Or their hand tools and other oddities actually.

Grinders for home use do involve some sort of compromise. Niche to me is a decent one if somewhat expensive to the uninformed that are new to the area. If some buys one and for some reason doesn't like it, fine sell it. Losses are likely to be lower than many others.

Just to be controversial - costs too much for some. Buy a Sage Smart Grinder Pro. Another interesting example. A number of grinders are available in that price region but maybe just maybe Sage pay a lot more attention to detail. Catch - buy new and expect to get circa £100 back if sold on. Some one told me on here that it's impossible to make decent coffee with a grinder in that price range. Really ??? Then up the price to Niche levels - here there is a need to way up the pros and cons - not an easy thing for some one new to grinders to do.

There are other weighing in grinders about. Apart from one availability is low and costs escalate. If in the USA a circa $6000 one seems to be stocked. Largely a lash up by a company that is trying to head in the innovate to improve market share direction. Quamar appear to be on their way in that direction as well maybe going pretty radical. The rest - doing the same old thing for years and years. Best they could come up with really is bigger burrs and some variation on how the grinds get out - none very good really for some beans I use. Cheaper to them ceramic burrs in some cases as well. Titanium coating, I'm well aware of what that might hide. Maybe it doesn't.

Niche really is a refreshing change that actually does seem to work but as always there is some degree of compromise - the grinds need handling. Timed grinders have compromises as well. It would be unwise to assume once set up that changes wont be needed. In that direction a lot depends on what people are prepared to accept, how often they change beans and to some extent the type.

John

-


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

L&R said:


> I am concerned about the motor, bearings(if not ball/cylinder type) and the gears to reduce the speed. I hope they are not similar to those used in kitchen hand mixers.
> 
> BR


Again... all questions answered in Davec's article.

No one else on here has stripped, tested and analysed a Niche as he has so we either don't know the answer or would just repeat hearsay.


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

joe said:


> On topic....... my Niche is slated for delivery at 12 o'clock today !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well... its arrived.

I have spent the last two hours dialing it in and ( having to taste the results each time ) I am ( in the words of The Fall ) totally wired !

First thing that I have noted is that whereas with my Rocky I can swap between varieties of bean and not really have to change the grind the Niche need fine tuning between each change of variety.

Have to wait now for the coffee headache to dissipate before I can practice some more.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

joe said:


> Well... its arrived.
> 
> I have spent the last two hours dialing it in and ( having to taste the results each time ) I am ( in the words of The Fall ) totally wired !
> 
> ...


2 hours? what were you doing ?

The Rocky as you know is stepped so one adjustment to anther is pretty big, hence the Niche not being stepped gives you more scope to dial in.

So one Rocky may be the equal of say plus 10 niche notches .....


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> 2 hours? what were you doing ?
> 
> .....


Enjoying myself immensely.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> 2 hours? what were you doing ?
> 
> .










i've spent several days brewing with 13g and same again with 13.5g which is going to win. Next thing is to get the mazzer mini out and try that with a 13.5g dose rather than the 14 I used for a long time.







DB so I'm guessing the puck will stick as am bound to have used it before. Why the Niche can use less - pass but feel I should make sure that's the case.

John

-


----------



## Freewind33 (Feb 17, 2019)

Hello everyone,

I arrive on this forum (I attend a French forum for a year), with all my excuses for my mastery of English.

I just received the NZ. A shot to show how I place the basket. The stainless steel bowl serves to weigh and maintain the filter holder.


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

ajohn said:


> You sound to me like someone who wants a reason not to buy one.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Mine is arriving on Monday, so wrong conclusions.

BR


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Freewind33 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I arrive on this forum (I attend a French forum for a year), with all my excuses for my mastery of English.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the madhouse. Good looking set up you have there and a neat solution to grinding straight into your portafilter.

I too am looking for a solution that simplifies using the Niche. ...To paraphrase Malcolm McLaren , all that weighing is making me itch !

I have worked out that my double basket in my portafilter , when filled level to the top , holds 18gm of beans. It varies by so little each time that I can't be bothered weighing any more. To simplify it further I too want to grind straight into my portafilter. It seems a waste of my time grinding into the Niche stainless cup and then transferring it onwards in an extra operation.

I realise that such talk is heresy around here where there are people using twigs gathered by natives on a full moon from the topmost branches of a rare tree that only grows in two known places on Earth to stir their grind ( only ever counterclockwise ) before they commence their three stage tamp routine.

Life's too short to stuff your own olives.

Welcome again ( whereabouts in France are you ? )


----------



## natmat (Aug 24, 2016)

joe said:


> To paraphrase Malcolm McLaren , all that weighing is making me itch !


Am I the only one who just puts a heaped spoon of beans into the Niche and doesn't fret over the +/- bean count for that 0.1g accuracy?

I filled the portafilter with beans, found a spoon that can hold them all and have just gone with that; to me coffee tastes good each time.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

natmat said:


> Am I the only one who just puts a heaped spoon of beans into the Niche and doesn't fret over the +/- bean count for that 0.1g accuracy?
> 
> I filled the portafilter with beans, found a spoon that can hold them all and have just gone with that; to me coffee tastes good each time.


Proabaly....

I weigh in, don't need to weigh out.

But if it works for you


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

natmat said:


> Am I the only one who just puts a heaped spoon of beans into the Niche and doesn't fret over the +/- bean count for that 0.1g accuracy?
> 
> I filled the portafilter with beans, found a spoon that can hold them all and have just gone with that; to me coffee tastes good each time.


You are not alone.

Having worked out the quantity of beans to make 18gms I then found a little medicine type clear plastic measuring cup that is the correct volume and I use that. I keep it in the bean caddy and just scoop out a cup full and off we go.


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Proabaly....
> 
> I weigh in, don't need to weigh out.
> 
> But if it works for you


Ah... but do you weigh the extraction?


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

natmat said:


> Am I the only one who just puts a heaped spoon of beans into the Niche and doesn't fret over the +/- bean count for that 0.1g accuracy?
> 
> I filled the portafilter with beans, found a spoon that can hold them all and have just gone with that; to me coffee tastes good each time.


Do you weigh out etc ?

John

-


----------



## natmat (Aug 24, 2016)

After living in Christchurch, NZ, for many years and having the best flat whites from the local coffee shops (before the name, but neither art nor technique, was shamelessly hijacked by all and sundry in the UK) I had never come across any barista weighing beans. Yet in the UK they're all weighing now. It seemed a wholly unnecessary attention to detail at the expense of improving their technique in other areas.

So, if I'm '@Mrboots2u probably...' the only one *not* weighing, I'm happy to carry on in my own world. As you say, 'it works for me'.

When I had a doser grinder I did the same, scoop/spoon of beans in the hopper, grind until all ground, then dose out. The Niche is a more pleasing experience to see the grounds showering out at the same time (but I do miss the click, click, click, ... of the doser).

I don't weight out either. I use a Duralex glass that has bands around it (so I can observer/measure what's come out). With my lever the output is very consistent per pull.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

To those who think beans always occupy the same volume for weight, they don't it can vary quite a lot between coffees....It's better to weigh really.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@natmat

I agree......the problem is you cannot argue with the science behind making coffee, therefore in theory, anything you do which might improve the shot by an ants knacker, is worth doing.......or is it? If you are a super taster, your palate will differentiate the minutest difference. if you have a good palate, you will pick up on a lot of differences. but if like me, you have a poor palate then it is highly unlikely your categorisation of drinks will get past the sink it/drink it label. Then, if you put milk in you enter a new set of rules anyway. So, my theory of COFFEE BOLLOCKS survives and gets bigger and bigger. You should weigh in/weigh out. You should have a grinder with constant particle output. You should have a hydraulic tamper that exerts exactly the same pressure every time, otherwise, in theory, even the most minute adjustment to any of those parameters COULD make a difference.......even if you are not able to detect it


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> To those who think beans always occupy the same volume for weight, they don't it can vary quite a lot between coffees....It's better to weigh really.


While a measure would be more constant if you're using the same beans all the time, does it really matter if you get an acceptable result?

While I weigh my dose & output, I don't worry if I'm not exactly 18g in & very rarely manage to hit exactly 36g out (assuming I'm aiming for a 2:1 ratio).


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

natmat said:


> Am I the only one who just puts a heaped spoon of beans into the Niche and doesn't fret over the +/- bean count for that 0.1g accuracy?
> 
> I filled the portafilter with beans, found a spoon that can hold them all and have just gone with that; to me coffee tastes good each time.


I do the same.

Though for a new bean I'll weigh in and out first to get a feel for where the level is for that bean on the scoop that I use


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> @natmat
> 
> I agree......the problem is you cannot argue with the science behind making coffee, therefore in theory, anything you do which might improve the shot by an ants knacker, is worth doing.......or is it? If you are a super taster, your palate will differentiate the minutest difference. if you have a good palate, you will pick up on a lot of differences. but if like me, you have a poor palate then it is highly unlikely your categorisation of drinks will get past the sink it/drink it label. Then, if you put milk in you enter a new set of rules anyway. So, my theory of COFFEE BOLLOCKS survives and gets bigger and bigger. You should weigh in/weigh out. You should have a grinder with constant particle output. You should have a hydraulic tamper that exerts exactly the same pressure every time, otherwise, in theory, even the most minute adjustment to any of those parameters COULD make a difference.......even if you are not able to detect it


I don't even grind the beans anymore, I just put them in the portafilter and lock and load.

I'm working towards a simplified method where I just put them straight in the toilet and flush tho









I am just debating whether to single dose the toilet or put em all in, in one go..

Jokes folks.

If you enjoy your coffee, do what works for you.

If you want to make some adjustments or tinker a little then there are simple options, processes to help people.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> While a measure would be more constant if you're using the same beans all the time, does it really matter if you get an acceptable result?
> 
> While I weigh my dose & output, I don't worry if I'm not exactly 18g in & very rarely manage to hit exactly 36g out (assuming I'm aiming for a 2:1 ratio).


Nobody will get 18.0g in & 36.0g out without using 0.01g scales to dose, trimming the dose out & using precise volu/gravimetrics to end the shot.

If you are weighing in, using the dose that you get without trimming (what a single doser is really designed for), the best you can do is:

+/- 0.1g wholebean in.

+/- 0.4g ground dose out, +/-0.5g is doing good.

...so your dose varies by about 2.5%. Half of the variance to keep extractions consistent. Not a problem by itself.

For the shot out, pulling short is more of an issue than letting the shot overrun, especially for 1:2. So make sure you pull 35g (from 18.0g dose) and if you pull so much more that the shot is weak, flat, with muted acidity, just try and pull a little less next time.

I don't find under-extracted light roasts "acceptable" pretty much ever. Dark roasts can be though. I don't drink milk, so can't 'fix' a shot with that.

To know what difference it makes you'd have to weigh your normal volume based dose & output methods to compare to controlled weights...which would seem to defeat the point of the dogma of 'not weighing'.


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

@dfk41

 You never hear the bullet thats kills you 

You do know that this is not factually true ?

Not all bullets are supersonic .... you willl hear the sub-sonic one that kills you .


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> To those who think beans always occupy the same volume for weight, they don't it can vary quite a lot between coffees....It's better to weigh really.


I found that and that it's best to adjust for it. Happen on a particularly light one and the basket can be overfilled based on what went in on some other bean. That can result in a coarser grind and that can change taste.

One thing that surprised me on Niche is what happened when I reduced my normal dose via other grinders by 1/2g. Why it changed pass







other than a suspicion and on that:exit:

I weigh them in. Maybe because i have been doing it for a long time and as a result it doesn't take me long to do it. My scoop doesn't provide a full dose so just take another and tap some out of it until i get to the weight I want. Sometime one or two beans too many go in so just take them out.

My aim is a sort of hobby - hit a button for a 30sec shot and want exactly the same out every time. After all when I bought the machine I paid for the buttons.

Rare twigs for stirring Niche grinds. Don't think so any more here. Just tap the can down once lightly which even with my beans clears the side of the can. Net result is more shot out for same grinder setting and weight in. So drank it and came to some conclusions.

Shot glasses - same a weighing out really. I have one but not keen due to the coating that's left when a shot is poured out. I don't weigh out anyway - just check off the machine to see how it's varying. I drink it and come to some conclusions about what is acceptable.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

joe said:


> Ah... but do you weigh the extraction?


I weight the amount of espresso made with scales and stop a shot at its target weight.

I don't measure extraction as I don't have a refractometer anymore.

Is this what you were alluding too?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

While reading through the many pages of this thread I am not seeing much about taste. Based on espresso what do you reckon? A step up from what you had before (helpful to mention the grinder, in that case)? A decent tasting shot? Is it the taste or ease of use for single dosing with very little retention that sold it to you? Or even the size and aesthetics?

I am just interested


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I don't even grind the beans anymore, I just put them in the portafilter and lock and load.
> 
> I'm working towards a simplified method where I just put them straight in the toilet and flush tho
> 
> ...


and there is also a load of coffee bollocks.....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

joe said:


> @dfk41
> 
>  You never hear the bullet thats kills you 
> 
> ...


HA! I doubt I would hear anything after many years of working night clubs!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MildredM said:


> While reading through the many pages of this thread I am not seeing much about taste. Based on espresso what do you reckon? A step up from what you had before (helpful to mention the grinder, in that case)? A decent tasting shot? Is it the taste or ease of use for single dosing with very little retention that sold it to you? Or even the size and aesthetics?
> 
> I am just interested


Taste comes from the bean & water. The grinder beaks down the beans into bits small enough to brew properly. If the grinder can't do this, it's because it is not operating properly (physically broken), or because it doesn't have the desired range of adjustment (won't go fine enough for very short shots/short high extracted shots).

If you're brewing consistently, the taste was decided when you bought the beans. The Niche helps consistent brewing (if you do) because it's dose consistency is good, relative to what you put in.


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## Teejay (Dec 4, 2017)

joe said:


> @dfk41
> 
>  You never hear the bullet thats kills you 
> 
> ...


Or unless it's suicide ;-)


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## blazarov (Jul 17, 2018)

The last conversation around weighing lead me to an idea for improvement. Adding an integrated scale in the hopper does not seem too hard and expensive, and on the other hand will save some time and make the workflow even smoother.

Technically i guess a valve on the hopper bottom will be needed to close the path for the beans downwards.

It will need a display and Tarre button so you open the top lid, click tarre, put beans until you reach the target weigh, close lid and grind.

Very few people weight out as it is proven unnecessary anyways so seems useful.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

blazarov said:


> The last conversation around weighing lead me to an idea for improvement. Adding an integrated scale in the hopper does not seem too hard and expensive, and on the other hand will save some time and make the workflow even smoother.
> 
> Technically i guess a valve on the hopper bottom will be needed to close the path for the beans downwards.
> 
> ...


It's easy enough & cheaper to just weigh the beans into the grinds cup, tip them in the grinder, place cup under the spout, close lid & grind.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

MWJB said:


> It's easy enough & cheaper to just weigh the beans into the grinds cup, tip them in the grinder, place cup under the spout, close lid & grind.


You can also reuse the same scales for brewing!

If we learnt anything, building in an Acaia grade scales will be somewhat expensive. Felicia still charge a ton for their copy. Baratza made a deal with Acaia, but the Sette 270W was like £150 more expensive with the scales built in?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Taste comes from the bean & water. The grinder beaks down the beans into bits small enough to brew properly. If the grinder can't do this, it's because it is not operating properly (physically broken), or because it doesn't have the desired range of adjustment (won't go fine enough for very short shots/short high extracted shots).
> 
> If you're brewing consistently, the taste was decided when you bought the beans. The Niche helps consistent brewing (if you do) because it's dose consistency is good, relative to what you put in.


Are you saying the grinder has no influence on taste?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Actually it is true that an many cases people wont here the bullet that kills them. The bullet arrives before the sound does but it does depend on the bullet.







For instance as the police in the uk only want to hit the person they are shooting at they did use a bullet with a reduced charge but even that might not be subsonic. They also don't really want it to pass straight through some one or a wall. What might be heard is the sound of the bullet passing through the air - bit late if it's going to hit. Very probably a bit late if the bullet happens to be subsonic too - if it's going to hit. Probably not a nice experience as it's more likely to penetrate and rattle around rather than go straight through.

John

-


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Are you saying the grinder has no influence on taste?


Grinders can change taste but I think the statement needs some care as different tuning may have exactly the same effect.







I've just moved the Profitec out and put the weighing in Mazzer Mini in it's place. Not ground any beans at all for a while now so can't expect and immediate comparison and can only compare by using the dose I now use in the Niche.







1/2g can't make any difference or can it.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

So been enjoying my Niche.

At the moment settled on espresso range of 19-21 ish ( based on a 19.5 dose, dose is a reflection on basket size/how much actual coffee I want to make )

Coffee I use is single origin, light to medium , for want of a better description.

Been pulling shots around the the 38-42g mark. Tasty for sure, back on teh split shot in the mornings.

Might borrow a refract from the cafe and just see what's it's doing.

Filter wise, only done a couple so far. Been a little bit on the fine side, grind wise so far (at the calibration mark for a 13.5 g v60 )

Dose wise, I weigh beans into the cup, grind, dont need to check again.

Going to filter straight after changing grind it tends to retain perhaps 0.2g ish more. Which you can seem to flush out with an extra bean in the grinder.

I am limited in what I can accommodate in my flat, due to the cupboards etc. So it's a win, win for me.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Taste comes from the bean & water. The grinder beaks down the beans into bits small enough to brew properly. If the grinder can't do this, it's because it is not operating properly (physically broken), or because it doesn't have the desired range of adjustment (won't go fine enough for very short shots/short high extracted shots).
> 
> If you're brewing consistently, the taste was decided when you bought the beans. The Niche helps consistent brewing (if you do) because it's dose consistency is good, relative to what you put in.


Its so very much more complicated than this. I don't know your experience with grinders but they differ quite a lot in taste and workflow.

It all depends on the beans though. As they go darker in color they loose in taste profile and gain in texture and body so you have to judge any grinder with as lightly toasted ground as possible while still maintaining proper balance while toasting them. Thats only my humble opinion as this taste thing is so subjective and relative that is so hard to give advice to someone based on that without having to drink some coffe with that someone and see if the tastes buds match, otherwise its pretty useless.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> So been enjoying my Niche.
> 
> At the moment settled on espresso range of 19-21 ish ( based on a 19.5 dose, dose is a reflection on basket size/how much actual coffee I want to make )
> 
> ...


Can I ask what machine you've got for espresso?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Can I ask what machine you've got for espresso?


It's a sage oracle, one of first ones actually. Still going.

It's set up to pre infuse for 6 seconds, then 9 bar after.

It's essentially the guts of a Sage DB.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> It's a sage oracle, one of first ones actually. Still going.
> 
> It's set up to pre infuse for 6 seconds, then 9 bar after.
> 
> It's essentially the guts of a Sage DB.


Nice one, cheers.









I thought you had a Londinium 1 for some reason, I've been looking at them and was interested in how they pair up with the Niche...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Nice one, cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had one, ling time ago. Ask @Heligan she has an L1 and an Niche at mo.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

webdoc said:


> Its so very much more complicated than this. I don't know your experience with grinders but they differ quite a lot in taste and workflow.
> 
> It all depends on the beans though. As they go darker in color they loose in taste profile and gain in texture and body so you have to judge any grinder with as lightly toasted ground as possible while still maintaining proper balance while toasting them. Thats only my humble opinion as this taste thing is so subjective and relative that is so hard to give advice to someone based on that without having to drink some coffe with that someone and see if the tastes buds match, otherwise its pretty useless.


The question wasn't about workflow, I didn't comment on that.

Taste is much simpler, you have a massive range of strength you can brew at, if you can't get a satisfactory taste anywhere then your grinder doesn't work at all. This is extremely unlikely.

If you want 22%+ extractions, then you are limited to very few grinders.

If you want all your shots to extract normally at 1:2 then you are probably limited, but to a wider range of grinders.

Likewise, if you want every bean to cut through milk.

But if you want to brew coffee, or are happy to brew espresso (both in the global sense of what a representative cup is, rather than, "I must have a thing I call espresso/coffee, that me & 5 other people drink") over a wider range of strength, things are much simpler.

It doesn't matter if my taste buds don't match someone else's who I have never met. I make coffee I like, their preference is theirs & they should aim to do the same.

If a significant proportion of the community don't only like coffee "as lightly toasted as possible", you are making a drink for a tiny niche. FWIW I like developed, but very light roasted coffee. This is not easy to find consistently.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Had one, ling time ago. Ask @Heligan she has an L1 and an Niche at mo.


Aah there you go, thanks for the heads up









So @Heligan how are you finding your L1/Niche combo?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MildredM said:


> Are you saying the grinder has no influence on taste?


Grinders have an influence on taste, in terms of small, but very specific changes. But more often that not, it's the round hole of our arbitrary definitions that makes a lot of grinders an apparent square peg.

A tasty, representative cup is achievable with a £150 hand grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> FWIW I like developed, but very light roasted coffee. This is not easy to find consistently.


Same here and agree it's not as easy to find.


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## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> So @Heligan how are you finding your L1/Niche combo?


I love the workflow of the Niche and the ability to switch beans so easily. I do find that the Niche adds some earthier tones and seems to take out the "top notes" of lighter roasts compared with my Mythos - I get less of the fruity/floral elements. However the results are still very good and I am finding myself using the Niche rather than the Mythos because it's so easy. The Niche also gets used for Rave's decaf, which is what my husband drinks. For that I don't perceive any benefit with the Mythos.

I've got my L1 up for sale currently because I'm interested in what an LR can do with lighter roasts, but then I'm also looking at getting an EK43 to pair with it. I'll keep the Niche though, for the decaf and the occasional medium roast beans.

Not sure if that covers what you want to know - please ask if not!


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

joe said:


> Welcome to the madhouse. Good looking set up you have there and a neat solution to grinding straight into your portafilter.
> 
> I too am looking for a solution that simplifies using the Niche. ...To paraphrase Malcolm McLaren , all that weighing is making me itch !
> 
> ...




I might add something from here to my signature...


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

And now for a short interlude... Niche User Experience ... OK carry on


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

webdoc said:


> Great! I just hate us spending so much money testing these overly expensive machines and not liking them.


Haha! I like all mine . . . and I wouldn't consider them 'overly expensive'. A £400 grinder is expensive if it doesn't perform.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

It is here, I had only 30 min for a quick look and one shot. The very first shot had a retention of 0.1 gram.

Grind settings from my first attempt were fine(12 on the scale) and shot was good looking(good sign).

Will test NZ(New Zealand) thoroughly soon









Cheers!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> It's actually pretty easy with a dosing attachment. The point was that nobody should buy an EK43 based on it's stock performance.


And yet the cafe's I know who were suing this , got rid of em. Anyway i started a new thread to have this chit chat over there .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

L&R said:


> It is here, I had only 30 min for a quick look and one shot. The very first shot had a retention of 0.1 gram.
> 
> Grind settings from my first attempt were fine(12 on the scale) and shot was good looking(good sign).
> 
> ...


You need more accurate scales, 0.01g







I normally get around 0.05g variance.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I agree I have only 2 cheap scales at the moment.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

L&R said:


> View attachment 39102


a true niche that


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Second shot with Niche and Vesuvius(aka Gaggia Classic)

Light to medium roasted Columbia, I would say the taste is not bad at all.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Some more pictures









Niche ground coffee magnified by microscope/conical burrs


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

And Ceado E37S ground coffee magnified for comparison/flat burrs


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

microscope...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

L&R said:


> And Ceado E37S ground coffee magnified for comparison/flat burrs
> 
> View attachment 39127


Refractometer next?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Why not, give me a field for experiments, to be honest I like the output of flat burrs more


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

None of the pics are loading for me. Anyone know a quick fix for this?


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## Freewind33 (Feb 17, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam -> yes !


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

M_H_S said:


> None of the pics are loading for me. Anyone know a quick fix for this?


TapAtalk makes it a doddle


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I see the pics even without Tapatalk!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

M_H_S said:


> None of the pics are loading for me. Anyone know a quick fix for this?


On an Iphone, find this happens for 2 reasons. Firstly, the file size is too big. I do not know if there is a restriction but I find anything above 2 megs struggles, and secondly, if you have an iphone 10 the chances are the file type is set to .heic. All you need to do is email yourself the photo and it automatically converts it to jpg


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

joe said:


> @dfk41
> 
>  You never hear the bullet thats kills you 
> 
> ...


Is that based on evidence of self report?


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

MildredM said:


> Are you saying the grinder has no influence on taste?


Certainly does but levels of roast play a factor too - lighter roasts don't grind in the same way darker roasts do - the latter shatter more during the grind. Conical burrs give a different taste profile to flats and excel with darker roasts. Conicals are at the best, extraction-wise, below 20% EY. Pushing a big conical like a Robur over 20% EY doesn't improve the taste - it just adds over-extracted bitterness. Flat burrs are more suited to lighter roasts. Lighter roasts, on the whole, don't give up their coffee solubles as easily as darker roasts. Sub 19% EY's on lighter roasts often produce high acidity. in the cup.

Another major factor affecting the taste is particle size distribution - particularly for flat burr grinders. Fines over extract adding to bitterness in the cup - boulders under extract, accentuating sour notes in the cup. If you like espresso made with lighter roasts, you need to be able with many beans to push EY above 20% to get enough sweetness out of the bean to counteract the inherent sourness. This is where uniformity of particle size distribution becomes very important. You also need to pull shots 1:2 or higher.

Finally, size of burrs with flat burr grinder does make a difference.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Another major factor affecting the taste is particle size distribution - particularly for flat burr grinders. Fines over extract adding to bitterness in the cup - boulders under extract, accentuating sour notes in the cup. If you like espresso made with lighter roasts, you need to be able with many beans to push EY above 20% to get enough sweetness out of the bean to counteract the inherent sourness. This is where uniformity of particle size distribution becomes very important. You also need to pull shots 1:2 or higher.
> 
> Finally, size of burrs with flat burr grinder does make a difference.


There is next to no data on particle size distribution and relative extraction of fines & boulders. From what there is, uniformity seems less important than fineness with regards to largest particles.

We know that grinding ever finer doesn't cause everything to increase & over-extract because the puck becomes less permeable.

So, sure, less large particles seems good (pulling down average size), mitigating smallest to allow the puck to extract properly seems good, but levels of uniformity are not clear.

In Perger/MK's test the Robur was clearly the coarsest grind.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Certainly does but levels of roast play a factor too - lighter roasts don't grind in the same way darker roasts do - the latter shatter more during the grind. Conical burrs give a different taste profile to flats and excel with darker roasts. Conicals are at the best, extraction-wise, below 20% EY. Pushing a big conical like a Robur over 20% EY doesn't improve the taste - it just adds over-extracted bitterness. Flat burrs are more suited to lighter roasts. Lighter roasts, on the whole, don't give up their coffee solubles as easily as darker roasts. Sub 19% EY's on lighter roasts often produce high acidity. in the cup.
> 
> Another major factor affecting the taste is particle size distribution - particularly for flat burr grinders. Fines over extract adding to bitterness in the cup - boulders under extract, accentuating sour notes in the cup. If you like espresso made with lighter roasts, you need to be able with many beans to push EY above 20% to get enough sweetness out of the bean to counteract the inherent sourness. This is where uniformity of particle size distribution becomes very important. You also need to pull shots 1:2 or higher.
> 
> Finally, size of burrs with flat burr grinder does make a difference.


I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> some purists (or is that obsessives) endlessly pursuing the Holy Grail. For many the journey is all - they don't really want to arrive.
> 
> .


Nicely put.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


But this isn't a particularly relevant Q.

I guess folk will have sold their previous grinder to recoup costs for the Niche.

The workflow of the Niche might win out over small perceived differences in taste (over a large enough sample).

The biggest influence in the taste of your cup, is what you put in it & how efficiently you extract it. The raw material is the hardest aspect of making consistently fantastic cups.

There is no reason to suspect that Niche is anything less than normal, for a single dosing, conical grinder.


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

This is a good question. And for me I'm not there yet even though I would say the taste on my Niche is improving. I have put it down to it not being run in and the differences between conics and flats. Before anyone notes, I am not looking for the taste to match that of a commercial grinder that costs twice or 4 times as much, just really decent coffee. The work flow, design and retention is enough for me to persevere towards that at present.

I would have thought a number of qs I have could be answered by you as I thought you had a Niche temporarily. Did you do a review and comparison? Specifically how does the Niche compare to your monolith conic? And using a single dosing conic and flat from the same manufacturer what do you note of the major differences in taste?



MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I doubt if apart from @DavecUK, there are many people with Niche grinders, who actually have run the burrs in sufficiently yet. The Mazzer burrs are industry standard, and will get better and better.....so.......taste comparisons are perhaps a tad early


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


Limited experience across borrowing dfk's and now owning one.

Is it better than my last grinder - YES - sage oracle for espresso. It seems to be comparable to my Feld for filter also. Pulled some shots with it at the cafe on a San Remo, once dialled in made some good espresso also ( " I like it from three baristas ) .I was genuinely surprised by it straight out the box.

Ease of use, retention , ability to dial back and forth and size were all major considerations for me , along with price , as i had a limit i didnt want to go beyond for any coffee grinder.

I am beyond the point now where I have to have "the best" be that perceived / actual / or most expensive. I know I have not always approached my coffee gear and like this, feel free to call me a hypocrite.

If i saw a k30 come up for £250-300, that didnt need any work or burrs etc, then I'd jump on it, but I wouldn't be alone in that.

My coffee is tasty, I didn't have any quantifiable expectations on this before getting one.

I am happy with how every shot taste's? In as much as i was when i had the EK43, truth be told the Niche seems more consistent , but the highs were higher with the EK and the lows lower . Plus any defects in the cup tend to be down to me with either grinder. I drink again alot more espresso recently. so that says something I think.

Does this mean it's for everyone , god no , not at all. No way.

We are on a forum of coffee obsessives, of which i am/was one, so there will be people pushing the envelope of what gear to own, and that's fine if you can afford it and enjoy it. But there are people out there that want a jack of all trades, so less than 4 figures , that fits under a cupboard and doesnt drive the rest of the house to distraction.

Perhaps the group of people that have the niche in general don't fit into that " it's amazing , the best ever " looking for the next big coffee thing, perhaps they just quietly enjoy their coffee, as part of their normal day.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

IMO Niche has its own niche and it is around medium to upper medium coffee enthusiast levels. It is for people that cannot accommodate big commercial machines in their kitchens too. Therefore the name was a very clever choice







from Martin. I guess there would be a second edition Niche Pro or similar with a 83mm burrs(flat/conical) and 300W+ motor and it will aim high end users.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


Guess I was of the rare ones









Yes, it performs better than my previous grinder (Macap M4D), I produce more consistent good espresso's (at least better tasting to me and my daughter in particular but also for the rest of the family). I have been quite satisfied with the Macap M4D for a long time, but not anymore. (Good and better thing.)

That did go as far that my daughter did not want the free M4D, but wanted to buy a Zero. (That is, she declined my offer she could get the M4D for free and told me she wanted buy the Zero herself - but I wanted to give it when she moves out.)

Am I happy with how *every* shot tastes? uh... no. I switch a lot between different beans and profiles (Vesuvius) ... I guess I mess up from time to time. (As well as recognizing some roasting faults every once in a while.)


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> I am beyond the point now where I have to have "the best" be that perceived / actual / or most expensive. I know I have not always approached my coffee gear and like this, feel free to call me a hypocrite.


If you were to never change your mind over the course of years or decades, you would have wasted the opportunity for your life experiences to mould you as a person.

This is one thing that I can never understand with peoples views on MP's. Often they're called hypocrites if they don't feel the same at 50 as they did at 30. It doesn't make sense.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

For me the Niche has been a revelation.

I moved from a Pharos and when I ordered it I said I'd be happy if it was better built and as good in the cup as a Sette. I was willing to trade off a little in the cup quality for convenience and not having a niggling shoulder problem and returning tennis elbow from trying to turn the handle with rock hard, lightish roast SHG beans.

Luckily, it has surpassed all expectations.

In the cup it's different to the Pharos, but in no waay inferior. Luckily I also prefer the taste that it gives for espresso.

It's built like a tank. Much, much better than the Sette I considered. I follow a few forums and the only return I know of was a guy who reported slippage of his settings. He was given a solution to this problem but also offered the opportunity to return and he took them up on the offer with no drama. Other than that somebody on here received a machine with it's burrs spinning the wrong way that I think was an easy fix. I wonder how many of the first 1000 Settes sold had problems in the first 3 months? I bet at least 10%.

There are other benefits as well that I didn't think would be as important to me. Zero retention is great and although I didn't like the cup at first I can now flip and shake whilst the portafilter is at such an angle that the grinds end up level almost every time, which is very convenient.

The only slight down side is on the few occasions I've made pour over using it, there hasn't been much difference between that and my Wilfa, but at least half the time I've forgot to turn the ring back to espresso resulting in a wasted shot, so I just use the Wilfa now and haven't really given the Niche much of a chance in that regard. The Wilfa stalls with light roasts though. The Niche has never stalled at any setting with any roast.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

What is the purpose of the always ON LED indicator near the power switch? I have paid my electricity bills or ?


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

I don't really post much Mildred for two reasons but for me, yes, I find the Niche stunning. I have owned Macap MC4, Mazzer Mini E and Ceado E37s, each step was an improvement over the last and the Niche is my first conical. The workflow shows the others for what they are, cafe-style back to back shots whether commercial or domestic where an approximation of the last shot weight is good enough (and all you all will achieve). The efficiency of the Niche with no purging, no beans sitting in a hopper or perspex tube/weight and just an an Airscape or something else where you just take out the beans you want. In my case single shots of 11.5g. I won't sell my Ceado at a give away price given that it is built like a tank and appropriate for continuous shots so I'll keep it for gatherings or events or just keep it unless someone comes along who will pay the £800 I consider it is still worth.

Those two reasons:

1. I sort of can't be ar5ed to eulogise about any bit of kit to be honest, I have a fantastic set-up enjoyed daily and by friends, family and visitors and I pay attention to every bit of the process (water taste and balance, bean roasting and storing, weighing-in/weighing-out, milk quality, technique etc) as a daily habit. As I say to people who look at my photos it was a hobby for the first handful of years but for the 10 years since it's just a quiet passion.

2. It's all a personal choice of each of us whether money, routines, time, value, result. I know coffeechap thought the Niche looked hideous and would have to keep it in a cupboard, I'm the opposite and look at the EK43 which might be a step up again but no way would I have that in my kitchen, same with the mechano-kit looking La Marzocco. But don't get me wrong, these are personal aesthetic choices. Some of you are prepared to use levers with their after-shot mess, I remember it well from my Pavoni years and wouldn't want to do that, others don't want the complexity of any HX/DB/PP compared with a lever. also, there is always going to be a minority who call out a better bit of kit no matter what you have and how cottage-industry the esoteric alternative is.

So, as a purely personal choice I find the Niche stunning in flavour definition and fullness of flavour across the various beans I roast (to my preference of course - I don't like light roasts nor dark roasts, they are too sour or too ashy for my taste) at an unbelivable price, efficiency and easy-mess-free-bean-efficient routine. I can adjust on the fly for 3 different coffees sequentially (did so this morning when a mate called round before work), go a bit coarser on the fly for cafetiere when I go away overnight (work routiney) and adjust straight back for my next espresso shot and no wastage. The Niche probably rubs some people up the wrong way and is no doubt a threat to various commercial interests but I really think it is one of those rare iconic products that come along for all these various reasons. It will be interesting to see how markets react but I won't be surprised if it's too 'niche' to dent the revenue streams of established companies with their retailer networks and marketing budgets.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

L&R said:


> IMO Niche has its own niche and it is around medium to upper medium coffee enthusiast levels. It is for people that cannot accommodate big commercial machines in their kitchens too. Therefore the name was a very clever choice
> 
> 
> 
> ...


IMO Niche has its own niche and it is around medium to upper medium coffee enthusiast levels. It is for people that cannot or don't want to accommodate big commercial machines in their kitchens too. Therefore the name was a very clever choice







from Martin. I guess there would be a second edition Niche Pro or similar with a 83mm burrs(flat/conical) and 300W+ motor and it will aim high end users


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

PaulL said:


> I don't really post much Mildred for two reasons but for me, yes, I find the Niche stunning. I have owned Macap MC4, Mazzer Mini E and Ceado E37s, each step was an improvement over the last and the Niche is my first conical. The workflow shows the others for what they are, cafe-style back to back shots whether commercial or domestic where an approximation of the last shot weight is good enough (and all you all will achieve). The efficiency of the Niche with no purging, no beans sitting in a hopper or perspex tube/weight and just an an Airscape or something else where you just take out the beans you want. In my case single shots of 11.5g. I won't sell my Ceado at a give away price given that it is built like a tank and appropriate for continuous shots so I'll keep it for gatherings or events or just keep it unless someone comes along who will pay the £800 I consider it is still worth.
> 
> Those two reasons:
> 
> ...


Thank you, that is a really helpful response and I'm grateful for the time you took to post your views


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


OK this coffee business is a funny thing, and i wonder what i have stumbled into, since buying the Niche. I guess most people a Niche won't be the first grinder, but will be a replacement it might be interesting to run a survey to find out what was the previous grinder.

It's not just "better or worse" it's "more complicated"

for me

BEFORE - find a recipe, buy a kilo of beans you trust - and do not change a thing - and from there you can squeeze an average espresso and make an average latte or mediocre flatte...

The variables to play with were, erm temperature surfing delay (count to three), one notch on the MDF and tamp pressure. Some beans just don't work...

AFTER ...

It smells different. I never put a portafilter up to your nose, but i do with the cup - often. The aroma was the first thing i noticed different.

Can really start to fine tune the grinding, at least 10 times better for me.

Start weighing things so you know what you were extracting.

No fines (where before you might see them occasionally and wonder - why this time?)

Start to think about the taste and read forums like this for help.

Try other beans without too much risk. Wow - what variation is available!

Start taking notes

Buy a PID

A proper 18g basket

Fewer binned shots over time.

I'm not sure if this was what i expected, but i can say i see big improvement and have made coffee which i would be very happy to pay money every day on the High st.

I think the Niche opens an accessible and affordable doorway that a high quality grinder provides, and also allow experimentation. If you haven't had a quality grinder it's a big step. (pun intended)









It changes a lot of things, including what you think of as a "better"









Perhaps that was something i did not expect... it takes a while to settle into a new system.

So returning to the questions...



> Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


No, but expecting every shot to be better is unrealistic, i can make a stinker with ease!.

Perhaps "are the best shots better?" - absolutely but it takes a while to think it all through if you haven't had a good variable grinder before. You get into a habit of "don't change anything".

"Is the number of bad shots reduced?" Hmm you start experimenting then you get some pretty strange shots but you do get to a good shot eventually or see where something else is lacking. For example you buy some fresh beans, it's mad for a day or two. If you've dumped them in the hopper it's a day or two of madness, with a Niche you just go back to some more rested ones while you watch the bags swell up.









edit: Does this make me one of the Knights who say Niche?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Agentb, there are a few target markets for the Niche grinder, you are one of them.They are not aimed at people who purchase EK43S, Kafatek Monoliths, Lynn Weber EG1s, Versalabs etc.. those people want the best and are willing to pay for it. They are taking their espresso/coffee to the next level.

To my mind, the Niche makes a great quality grinding experience relatively affordable, without having to have a used old/large noisy commercial grinder in the kitchen. I put my money towards one of the key areas of coffee such as very good quality green beans and a lot of care when roasting them on a commercial grade roaster. I usually have 4 or 5 different roasted coffees on the go (I have 8 different ones at the moment) and the Niche makes it really easy to move between them as I fancy.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I suppose I'm in a target market for the Niche too. I use a La Pavoni for a few shots per week 2 at a time. For everyday coffee I use a Neopolitan flip or Bialetti. Either way I don't need loads of grinding per day. Due to the La Pavoni I need a decent grinder, my Lido ET is great but too fiddly or is that too manual for daily use.

I certainly don't want a big grinder with hopper in our kitchen. I can't justify a hopper full of beans either.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


Funny place isn't it? We buy something to help us make delicious coffee and instantly start talking about shit like particle distribution... I mean, personally I find it really interesting, but it's not why I personally bought the grinder









To answer this, I love mine and yes, it tastes much better and is more consistent than my previous grinder by far.

I had a eureka mignon mk 1 with slightly chipped burrs for espresso and a feldgrind for filter. Now the Niche blows the mignon out the water taste-wise AND it's easier to work out grind size, so I spend far less time faffing about making crap shots until I find the sweet spot. To add to this, I can leave the feldgrind at work, because the Niche is also awesome for filter. It's filled a gap for me!

I should add, I'm no master of espresso and have an un-PID'd gaggia classic that swings temperature around like nobody's business, but at least it's tasting better!

I got this grinder at £360 delivered. That was already uper end of budget for me and I probably wouldn't pay £500 for it (although I do think it's worth it). For me, it's exceeded my expectations in the cup for both filter and espresso, I can switch between espresso and filter grinds easily (which I do daily) and to add to this I like the work flow too. It's a winner!


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

jaffro said:


> Funny place isn't it? We buy something to help us make delicious coffee and instantly start talking about shit like particle distribution... I mean, personally I find it really interesting, but it's not why I personally bought the grinder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm running mine with a Classic as well, definitely suggest you fit a PID when you can, it make's a massive difference.


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Only had mine had mine 5 days but I am making better, tastier more consistent coffee.

Previous (still have ) grinders...Eureka Minion and Racilio Rocky.


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## jerrymouse (Jan 3, 2019)

I had Mazzer SJ. Taste-wise I don't know yet (I had a few god shots on SJ that I'm unable to replicate ... yet ... but I was unable to replicate them consistently on SJ also - it was more like an accident) ... but consistency is better (way less "sink it" shots) and I can switch coffees. And I don't waste any (when changing grind, morning purge, etc.) - that's a huge plus for me.


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## Lukhasz (Nov 5, 2018)

Comparing to Sette 270 (used mostly as single doser) the taste is noticeable and consistently better.

What's weird in my case is that the consistency of shot extraction TIME is worse. It happens that without changing beans, dose, grind size or tamp, one shot takes 30 seconds and the next one almost chokes my machine, runining twice as long. I blame it to my inabilities using a cup. Not sure which one was distributed awfully tough 

Amazingly, quite often those prolonged shots taste really good, especially for light roasts. I'm not even worried seeing slow extraction, only care about keeping the ratio low (1.5-2.0).


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Jon_Foster said:


> I'm running mine with a Classic as well, definitely suggest you fit a PID when you can, it make's a massive difference.


It's next on my list of coffee related purchases providing I don't decide to upgrade instead... Can't justify an expensive upgrade though, so thinking a PID would be best bang for my buck. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## sabman (Feb 20, 2019)

I know that the NZ is at a different price point than a Virtuoso, but does anyone know how the grind consistency of NZ compares to the Virtuoso at brew grind settings?

I'm debating between NZ, Virtuoso, and Forte for a grinder dedicated to V60, Chemex, and Aeropress. I know that Forte BG does excellent grinds, but isn't do good at single dosing (which is my preferred method).


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I think I pretty much know that. What I was asking way back was rarely does anyone [on the Niche threads] say 'the taste is fantastic / the same over and over / it's better than my last grinder' or any such variations of that. All I was asking was besides enjoying the low retention, ease of use, size etc does the taste in the cup meet expectations. I know there are many variables (I am not stupid) but compared to, say, your previous grinder, would you say your coffee tastes better/tasty or whatever word you want to use. Are you HAppy with how every shot tastes? Does that aspect meet your expectations?


I wont be using the word fantastic to describe taste. Only different as I was perfectly happy with what I made before using a Mazzer Mini and weighing in on that effectively at zero retention.








Do I prefer the Niche taste - yes but I had to reduce my usual dose by circa 1/2g to obtain it. So far reducing the dose on the Mazzer Mini doesn't have the same effect but as it's not been used for a while it will take a number of shots to work as it should. Suppose I could clean and retune with it but as it's a pain to set the grind I'll carry on as I am.

Time to prepare a dose. I'd say not that much difference. Niche needs more attention to getting the grinds in the portafilter to get more consistent shot times and Mini needs more attention to getting all of the grinds out of it.

Tuning. Niche is easier but as with any thread style adjustment working around a setting of 10 on Niche is more touchy than say when it is used at 15 or more. The Mini is a pain. What I personally do is feel for the play in the ears on the burr carrier and leave that central.

Shot time consistency. Worse or better than the Mini. I have had a few in a day via the Niche where 30 sec gave a shot to better than 1g but others that don't. I'd be inclined to say that generally it would take under 3 sec change to correct. I'd probably be happy with that if I can ever make the DB work correctly in volumetric mode. The mini would give fairly long runs with 1g variation in output and drift out, usually short. I'd reset the grinder at some point. Not sure that Niche will need setting changes.

Consistent taste over time - weeks in other words.







No opinion yet as I seem to have a bean ageing problem. I did put it down to colder weather but that didn't happen last year. They are maturing more when I am using them. Might just be down to blocked vents on my bean cans so have cleaned them. I tried airscape on the last batch and they matured much more slowly in those as well.







Didn't like the smell of the result either.

John

-


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

One more aspect of this grinder is simplicity, I started using it often because you don't need to do extra steps. Retention varies through different types of beans, but it is in the region of 0.1 gram which is fine for me.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

L&R said:


> One more aspect of this grinder is simplicity, I started using it often because you don't need to do extra steps. Retention varies through different types of beans, but it is in the region of 0.1 gram which is fine for me.


...and I bet >95% of us won't be able to tell a 0.1g 'contamination' even in a cupping environment









Looking very much forward to mine now!
















Is it March already? Is it March already?!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hasi said:


> ...and I bet >95% of us won't be able to tell a 0.1g 'contamination' even in a cupping environment
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a bit more than 0.1g variance, but it would take a lot more than that to swing a cupping - at the same grind setting cups would just be a tiny, tiny bit weaker/stronger, no significant swing in extraction....well, not so much that it wouldn't be swallowed up by the noise in cupping itself.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'll bite.... @ajohn I understand less than 10 percent of your last post . I may be alone in this but you can not tell what you are trying to infer re your commets versus a mini mazzer or mention of shot times .

I'm not deliberately just picking at you, I have re read the post a couple of times and am still none the wiser or enlightened.

If anyone can shed some light on its meaning please feel free


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'll bite.... @ajohn I understand less than 10 percent of your last post . I may be alone in this but you can not tell what you are trying to infer re your commets versus a mini mazzer or mention of shot times .
> 
> I'm not deliberately just picking at you, I have re read the post a couple of times and am still none the wiser or enlightened.
> 
> If anyone can shed some light on its meaning please feel free


10%......your generous


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

My concern that such @ajohn's posts bleed into threads where beginners are asking for help and might not realise that it's not general consensus of this forum.

I just don't bother reading as experience, expectation and taste preferences differ from mine too much. I'd be happy to reply, but some people just don't take feedback anyway.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'll bite.... @ajohn I understand less than 10 percent of your last post . I may be alone in this but you can not tell what you are trying to infer re your commets versus a mini mazzer or mention of shot times .
> 
> I'm not deliberately just picking at you, I have re read the post a couple of times and am still none the wiser or enlightened.
> 
> If anyone can shed some light on its meaning please feel free


My aim is a fixed timed shot with zero variation in the weight of the shot that is produced.







Probably impossible but that's the aim.

On the mazzer mini I would have long runs where a 30sec shot through 14g gave within 1gram of 34g out. Usually 3 shots a day and that could happen for several days. Then the shot weight out would reduce so I would top it up by extending the time. When the extension got to 5 sec reset the grind to bring it back again. The used puck would more or less drop out cleanly when the portafilter was inverted. Other beans might do something different. If I'm comparing things I only use 2nd crack monsooned malabar.

Along came Niche. Same basket same dose. Proved easier to tune. Taste not all that different really and the used puck no longer dropped out and left more behind when it was knocked out. Messed about with the grinds several ways including straight into the portafilter. Then I decided to drop the dose by 1/2g to see if the puck fell out again. I needed to reset the grind but surprisingly got a lot more "taste". I then tried 13g. Same taste but at times seemed weaker. Initially the taste had a bit of a bitter edge to it but that's faded now but I'm still left with more taste than I achieved on the mini for a bit less coffee. All I can assume is that the grinds via Niche expand more and I was in the region where that was having some control of the output. So reducing the dose and grinding a bit finer gave more "taste". I'm now using 13.3 nominally and that when I have checked it has been within 0.1g so 0.2g variation.

I am getting more shot weight variation on Niche and it can be either higher or lower. I'd reckon as I mentioned that a 3sec max change in shot time would correct that. So fi some one weighed out on the fly that's the sort of variation I would expect for the same weight of shot with the beans I am using. More to do yet though. Currently the way my DB is set infusion may stall just before it switches to full pressure. I'd set it for 10sec as per my BE. I intend to set it back to the default which if I remember correctly is 6 secs. That may help with this.











Mic off, shot starts at 10sec before the coffee appears. Daft basket to use with 13g in really, shallower than a 15g VST.

Doh forgot one thing. Still haven't made sure that the mini can't produce the same taste etc as Nich with the reduced dose. The mini is starting to behave itself now again.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Right , that is a little clearer .

Shot time is more than likely not a variation of grinders or grinder but of distribution in the basket.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Right , that is a little clearer .
> 
> Shot time is more than likely not a variation of grinders or grinder but of distribution in the basket.


That's what I suspect. Can't say that I see it as a serious penalty really especially as achieving what I did with the mini needed very specific grinds grooming and even then the grinder needed resets from time to time. Niche seems better in that respect.

The other @me = it's generally accepted that conic will yield a different taste to flat and also that larger flat can change that as well. If I you want to know what I think re grinders - there is so much around on them that beginers can finish up not even knowing what they should buy even before they have bought anything. Fine but we all have to start some where and that may not be with perfection.

John

-


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I'm only grinding 2 or 3 drinks per week worth on my niche at the moment and seriously thinking of putting a few kilo of supermarket beans through it to season the burrs.

I would be doing this to improve taste and bring out brighter notes a little more. I've read @DavecUK and @dfk41 have observed a noticeable difference as the burrs aged.

Is the consensus this is a reasonable idea and if so I assume I'd do the seasoning at espresso grind setting?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think 4 or 5 kg is enough to get you most of the way there, as diminishing returns after that.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

when I season burrs, I open them right out and gradually tighten the grind, running a kilo or so through on espresso settings. You will need to check what the maximum use is per day though unless @DavecUK says its ok to run it continuously!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I would think you would be fine filling the top hopper with about 50g and grinding through then give an equal time as a rest period. E.g around 1kg in 40m total.

So 50s on and 50s off perhaps

P.S. After every 500g I would be inclined to have a session break of 30m.just to let everything cool completely.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> I'm only grinding 2 or 3 drinks per week worth on my niche at the moment and seriously thinking of putting a few kilo of supermarket beans through it to season the burrs.
> 
> I would be doing this to improve taste and bring out brighter notes a little more. I've read @DavecUK and @dfk41 have observed a noticeable difference as the burrs aged.
> 
> Is the consensus this is a reasonable idea and if so I assume I'd do the seasoning at espresso grind setting?


Be sure to report back of course if you do this.

It would interesting if you could try the same beans / settings before and after.

On a side note, I could swear the flow of my pours is getting more even as I keep using it. Less speeding up towards the end, more upfront etc.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

With flat burrs I season much the same way as dfk. Coarser setting visiting espresso levels now and again to see how clumping is progressing.







Nich no clumps even at espresso levels with oily beans that I would have problems with on any flat burr grinder as they come. I just get some very weakly held together static clumps if there are any at all.

On flat using a coarser setting for most of the time seems to start conditioning them so less load on the grinder.

John

-


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

richwade80 said:


> Be sure to report back of course if you do this.
> 
> It would interesting if you could try the same beans / settings before and after.
> 
> On a side note, I could swear the flow of my pours is getting more even as I keep using it. Less speeding up towards the end, more upfront etc.


Will do Rich


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I would just buy a bag of Rave Coffee a kilo, If I don't like it it can go through the grinder it should be fine though. I couldn't allow cheap beans through it haha


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Jony said:


> I would just buy a bag of Rave Coffee a kilo, If I don't like it it can go through the grinder it should be fine though. I couldn't allow cheap beans through it haha


Or mystery 10 perhaps


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Tried Mystery 8 couldn't get on with it, but yes I agree


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

You guys sure about wasting beans at all?

I mean, how long for the required amount to go through by keeping up your regular coffee habits? Two weeks? Maybe three?

Can't help but thinking of what it takes to crop them cherries somewhere at a steep hillside, living in the most basic shelters, wandering from farm to farm to seek the next day's work. What processing (dry and wet alike), transporting and ultimately roasting means to the environment in many cases. And how much labour goes into it from various a folk, cropper to roaster.

Totally off-topic, but maybe worth wondering about when sending your next kilo to the bin


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

My Niche started giving good output from the beginning, no waste.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well it's my money you just enjoy.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

For what's worth I unboxed the Niche, ground a couple of shots, discarded, and just used it as normal. Maybe my taste buds are not as developed, or maybe it's because I used a La Pav so every shot is different really... (this was longer, this was shorter, this had more ore-infusion, this had a higher group temp, this one the lever was pointing slightly north west, etc, etc)


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Jony said:


> Well it's my money you just enjoy.


Maybe I got you wrong here... I simply wish for a 'cherish what you have and enjoy responsibly' approach.

I'm fine with your opinion, just letting everybody else know that it may be perceived as [enter-preferred-term-here] to throw other people's hard work in the bin.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hasi said:


> You guys sure about wasting beans at all?
> 
> I mean, how long for the required amount to go through by keeping up your regular coffee habits? Two weeks? Maybe three?
> 
> ...


Niche seasoning apart, I think folks are always going to end up with the odd bag that can't get on with, maybe stick that aside for such occasions?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Or just contact a roaster to see if they have some beans that failed qc you could use.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Each to their own but I was actually thinking about this last week and I totally understand not wanting to waste beans.

I'd dropped one on the floor and while I was searching for it I thought to myself this is crazy you're on your hands and knees hunting for a coffee bean, what are you doing!?









But then I thought about about the amount of people that had bean (sorry) involved in the whole process, the man hours it took to to get it to me, from growing, to harvesting, to processing, to shipping, to roasting and to shipping again (and all the steps I'm sure I've missed) it's a really sobering thought and made me consider how lucky I am to be at this end of the chain!

Thankfully I'm happy to let the burrs season in their own time, coffee tasted great to me fresh off the bat, I don't think my my taste buds are sophisticated enough to notice!

I like to have a batch of coffee that I can pull a sink shot with after I've cleaned the group and basket with Cafiza but Christmas present beans from well meaning friends and family are good for that...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Each to their own but I was actually thinking about this last week and I totally understand not wanting to waste beans.
> 
> I'd dropped one on the floor and while I was searching for it I thought to myself this is crazy you're on your hands and knees hunting for a coffee bean, what are you doing!?
> 
> ...


I've got some great news for you...that 1 bean hardly took any effort or time to get to you. I expect you spent 10x more effort bending down to look for it and probably produced more CO2 as well.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I've got some great news for you...that 1 bean hardly took any effort or time to get to you. I expect you spent 10x more effort bending down to look for it and probably produced more CO2 as well.


Haha, I have to hold my hands up to adding to gas output









Maybe I've overestimated the work involved in producing coffee then but for me time spent reminding myself of my good fortune is time well spent.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I must vac about 18gr a week haha


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

And you could also look at it like this: you make the total turnover in the market larger, thus hopefully giving more people jobs.

(I once talked to a cleaning lady who said: if everybody would clean up after themselves I would be out of a job, so I'm happy with slobs.)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Just curious about cheap beans









https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Brand-Solimo-Coffee-Beans/dp/B07CGXZMT3/ref=sr_1_2_acs_pb_intl_sl_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1551287280&sr=8-2-acs&keywords=coffee+beans

Just about cheaper than one Lidl do that actually doesn't taste toooooooo bad. Just a bit ordinary.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Just curious about cheap beans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Poor grinder ....


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Poor grinder ....





ajohn said:


> Just curious about cheap beans
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice, 13 inches tall, just how I like my coffee.


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## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I've got some great news for you...that 1 bean hardly took any effort or time to get to you. I expect you spent 10x more effort bending down to look for it and probably produced more CO2 as well.


Wait, I thought that "Every Bean is Sacred!"


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

deleted


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Headgoboomboom said:


> Wait, I thought that "Every Bean is Sacred!"


What made you think that?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> What made you think that?


It is a play on a Monty Python song......

watch and enjoy


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

:angel:Scratch head - wasn't some one talking about people polluting for sale threads. Must have miss read surely they wouldn't pollute others.









Anyway Niche for DB owners and maybe other pre infusion freaks.

I cut the pre infusion from 10 to the default 7 secs. Still hits 5 bar as before during that but very quickly goes to 9. Pretty significant taste change. Stronger taste,







Not sure I like it so need to try a bit of retuning. Might be down to using a lowish fill to prevent the DB from sucking the puck up. Pass. Coffee is strange stuff.

John

-


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Coffee is strange stuff.-


I believe spent coffeegrounds are sometimes even used to grow mindblowing mushrooms ;-)


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Finally you can *order* it and *get* it in the same Month. Looking forward to seeing and a normal online shop.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

L&R said:


> Finally you can *order* it and *get* it in the same Month. Looking forward to seeing and a normal online shop.


Probably been one of the biggest barriers to sales in higher numbers. I know a few people thought it was to create false rarity (cynics). In truth I think people don't like having to wait Months, or even weeks. They decide they want a grinder and they would like it the day before thy order it if possible. I know all about the people who order something and an hour later set up a chair behind the letter box and peep out of it all day looking for the delivery.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

They reached the point to sell it like all other manufactures do. I started to use it often because of a lazy routine it offers. With oily beans you can surpass retention of 0.1 gram though, but still is not a big deal taste wise.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I'm annoyed that I can't moan about it, it does all I need it to do haha


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Jony embrace


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

L&R said:


> They reached the point to sell it like all other manufactures do. I started to use it often because of a lazy routine it offers. With oily beans you can surpass retention of 0.1 gram though, but still is not a big deal taste wise.


Are the burrs anything like run in yet?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Probably not, I am happy as it is at the moment and as you know I was skeptical about it in general but I can admit Niche changed the home barista game. There is something nifty in it I can't explain.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> They reached the point to sell it like all other manufactures do. I started to use it often because of a lazy routine it offers. With oily beans you can surpass retention of 0.1 gram though, but still is not a big deal taste wise.


Try varying your tuning. Most people report later flow starts with it against what they were using before. Grinds seem to expand more for one but that may really relate to compression in the puck after it's tamped. My 1/2g less than I usually use made a big difference and needed a grinder setting change.








Latest change - shorter infusion time. Pass on why things improved again - flow now starts more or less at the same point in time as it used to but at 9 bar rather than about 5.







Maybe it squeezes more out of the grinds.

Taste dropped off with use. Then the infusion pushed it up above what it initially was.

John

-


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## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> What made you think that?


Dave, I am surprised at you! I thought everyone "over there" would have picked up on my joke immediately.


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

I noticed that dropping to 17ish grams brings out a good deal of bitter/overextraction on an e61 vibe. I know someone advised us to try that.

Still testing it, not there yet, taste-wise. It seems too intense to have some clarity with light roasts atm. Ease of use is astonishing!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Are the burrs anything like run in yet?


You should start the run in burrs religion, you've really taken to it as gospel...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jlarkin said:


> You should start the run in burrs religion, you've really taken to it as gospel...


Come on Joe.....a man with your experience and all that.......tis a fact, that most things in life work a little better once broken in


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

webdoc said:


> I noticed that dropping to 17ish grams brings out a good deal of bitter/overextraction on an e61 vibe. I know someone advised us to try that.
> 
> Still testing it, not there yet, taste-wise. It seems too intense to have some clarity with light roasts atm. Ease of use is astonishing!


The bitter aspect might just be a characteristic of the bean that you are now bringing out.

Your other comment reminds me of Sumatra Mandheiing. Popular in milk as it's a powerful bean. Drop the dose and play with ratios and it turns into an interesting drink - in an americano in my case. Brewed at usual strengths IMHO there is no way anyone would pick up it's flavour notes.

I have some Ethiopian beans - great in cafeterias etc to try. Not used any of them yet. Bought just to try in Niche but makes sense to use in my Mini first.

John

-


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

NZ vs Ceado E37S. I used same beans for both samples(Kenya AA), on all pictures on the left is* NZ* and on the right is *E37S.*


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I appreciate the effort Wiht the photos but I'm not really sure what they are telling me. They are significantly different colours . Is the white balance, exposure on each one the same ?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

yep they were taken at once on the same sample board


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

L&R said:


> yep they were taken at once on the same sample board


In manual mode .?


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Are those photos from the Great British Bake Off?


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## All_a_Mort (Jan 28, 2019)

Whilst waiting for my Niche to arrive, reading the comments on the Indiegogo site, someone mentioned putting a blind basket over the beans to prevent popcorning. Is popcorning much of an issue with the Niche? I'm aware some commercial grinders don't like it not having a sizeable quantity of beans in the hopper pushing down, but I thought the Niche was designed for small weighed doses?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I don't see any notable difference. And I am not that bothered.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

All_a_Mort said:


> Whilst waiting for my Niche to arrive, reading the comments on the Indiegogo site, someone mentioned putting a blind basket over the beans to prevent popcorning. Is popcorning much of an issue with the Niche? I'm aware some commercial grinders don't like it not having a sizeable quantity of beans in the hopper pushing down, but I thought the Niche was designed for small weighed doses?


Yes it popcorns, it's being single dosed.

It's designed to have zero retention, it cant defeat physics though. You can put a single basket over the top. It will still popcorn, just less so.

Don't worry about it too much, shake the grinds in the cup before pouring into the pf.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

All_a_Mort said:


> Whilst waiting for my Niche to arrive, reading the comments on the Indiegogo site, someone mentioned putting a blind basket over the beans to prevent popcorning. Is popcorning much of an issue with the Niche? I'm aware some commercial grinders don't like it not having a sizeable quantity of beans in the hopper pushing down, but I thought the Niche was designed for small weighed doses?


Not a huge issue because of the very low rotational speed, but a pringles lid or something helps bring the beans back to their ultimate fate faster and prevents any shrapnel escaping for the obsessives amongst us that dislike the odd particle on the scale or the counter..so why not. You are quite correct though, it is designed for small single doses.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I appreciate the effort Wiht the photos but I'm not really sure what they are telling me. They are significantly different colours . Is the white balance, exposure on each one the same ?


They are of interest in some ways. There are comments about on how the 2 types of grinder grind. Maybe the most sensible one is by the president of if I remember correctly Ceado. Flat tends to produce flakes, conical "bits". What might be expected from the shape of the burrs and how they function. One set of photo's posted mention one type looking more 3D so this fits. Other comments for the reason for the differences mention gobble de **** modal grinding.

The reason for his big conical burrs is pretty simple - to get similar grinding rates to flat. Also if I remember correctly for origin beans - I'd assume to maintain their flavour. Some small conical's can have higher grinding rates but only by running faster. The other problem with the ones that I have seen is that the flutes into the part that effectively form a sort of auger are too small to accept a whole bean so will bounce around etc more to break them up first.

He then goes on to say that flats are for extraction, conical for flavour and aroma.







Well some people have mentioned taste changes even more of what they want or more of what they don't want. Initially on Niche I had no difference to worse.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> They are of interest in some ways. There are comments about on how the 2 types of grinder grind. Maybe the most sensible one is by the president of if I remember correctly Ceado. Flat tends to produce flakes, conical "bits". What might be expected from the shape of the burrs and how they function. One set of photo's posted mention one type looking more 3D so this fits. Other comments for the reason for the differences mention gobble de **** modal grinding.
> 
> The reason for his big conical burrs is pretty simple - to get similar grinding rates to flat. Also if I remember correctly for origin beans - I'd assume to maintain their flavour. Some small conical's can have higher grinding rates but only by running faster. The other problem with the ones that I have seen is that the flutes into the part that effectively form a sort of auger are too small to accept a whole bean so will bounce around etc more to break them up first.
> 
> ...


Something is 3d it isn't . How is it more 3d?

What's a flute ?

How is a conical more aromatic ?

Extraction and flavour how are they not linked all coffee has to go through extraction or its just water in the cup

I'm not deliberately picking a arguement here it's just i tire of seeing alot of guff posted that I can't see where the rationale to it is .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> 1.Something is 3d it isn't . How is it more 3d?
> 
> 2. What's a flute ?
> 
> ...


I'm intrigued by your points and want to answer them one by one.









1. This is more 3d than 3d

https://goo.gl/images/ykCftA

2. This is a flute










3. This shows a conical is very aromatic

https://www.flipkart.com/giftshub-premium-natural-aromatic-backflow-incense-cones-20pc-rose-dhoop-cone/p/itmf98g2rv2a25xy

4. I did not fully understand this point, but these people seem to.

https://www.rssl.com/~/media/rssl/en/files/documents/white-paper/challenges-of-flavour-analysis.pdf

5. Did you mean to say this


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@DavecUK

what about more 3d? Is this then 4d?

Or is it a case of Spinal tap and it goes to 11 ?

Re the photos, It can see the different colour of the same coffee . I don;t know how the grinder changes this. Anyone care to offer a idea.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> @DavecUK
> 
> what about more 3d? Is this then 4d?
> 
> ...


Top link I edited the post a minute after I made it...check it out. Well in fairness it's 2d that more 3d than 3d.

As for the photos, they certainly are interesting!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Something is 3d it isn't . How is it more 3d?
> 
> What's a flute ?
> 
> ...


This might help

https://kids.wordsmyth.net/we/

John

-


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Something is 3d it isn't . How is it more 3d?
> 
> What's a flute ?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately you can't ask on this but you could write to them






John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Doesn't answer the question about one is for extraction and one for flavour . Extraction and flavour are linked . You can't have flavour of you don't extraction stuff from the coffee .

I gave up looking to Gail for answers along time ago as watching that video clearly demonstrates


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> I gave up looking to Gail for answers along time ago as watching that video clearly demonstrates


A concerning part of the post, I can't believe you once looked to Gail for answers!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> A concerning part of the post, I can't believe you once looked to Gail for answers!


Yeah fair comment. The video\s were vaguely entertaining when "Kat" made em. It was a bit like watching my and auntie's try to make coffee.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

They're entertainment, not educational videos.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> They're entertainment, not educational videos.


The sheer depth and breadth of their knowledge leaves me agog....


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> The sheer depth and breadth of their knowledge leaves me agog....


They do serve the purpose for the casual audience. We are a very small minority in the coffee scene, never mind the world.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Getting back to the Actual Grinder itself.

Has anyone pulled any shots and checked the extractions yields versus tasty, how far it can go versus someones preference ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I was intending to use the LHC near Geneva but they wouldn't let me.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> The sheer depth and breadth of their knowledge leaves me agog....


Don't know really. There are a few gems buried in them. What did a thermoblock look like compared with a thermocoil. Not a bad video. Wrapping pfte tape around the adjustment thread of a number of grinders will improve their performance.







Interesting way of comparing a Sage grinder with another - suspect the margin isn't big enough. Ceramic burrs being cheaper to make than metal.







Awaiting what's going on with cast iron and titanium. Maybe one day but probably out of their usual price range.

As the man said entertainment and in real terms no more useful than loads of similar from other similar sources. My favourite is Espresso TV via a rather manic German - they are useful after a fashion and entertaining.

John

-


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I actually don't have the words to respond....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I was intending to use the LHC near Geneva but they wouldn't let me.


So it's a no then.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> So it's a no then.


It's weird to see how people don't comment on the taste/extraction the grinder produces. If you mention that it's subpar to other grinders that are around £1k mark, then you get blamed for not getting it seasoned well enough.

Don't get me wrong - it's nice to see Niche being compared to pricier grinders and it seems to have the best workflow in its price range.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Your burrs are either run in or not. It is not make believe!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> It's weird to see how people don't comment on the taste/extraction the grinder produces. If you mention that it's subpar to other grinders that are around £1k mark, then you get blamed for not getting it seasoned well enough.


I think commenting about certain things is far more difficult sometimes. I have the suspicion that making proper comments on certain subjects often requires a fair bit of "work" in the background and people are so busy that they cannot spare the time to do this work. This makes them reluctant to make comments they might be asked to "back up", or get challenged on when they perhaps can't. If you say x tastes better than Y grinder, you are pretty much putting yourself out there...I think if you feel it's subpar to another grinders (or better), then absolutely you should say so, along with the coffee you ground (varietal, roast level, age), prep method, how you did the test, extraction times/weights, who was involved, espresso, americano and milk etc.. etc.. Then repeat all this with at least 5 or 6 different coffees from other regions and roast levels. Of course people at home are not going to do this and don't want to. So they are left making the "I feel" type comments...and many are quite reluctant to do that.

*So I'm absolutely not blaming anyone for anything, It's just my guess as to the real answer to your question which focusses on one specific aspect of the experience. I am also in no way justifying the "you have not seasoned the burrs enough" comment as a reply, this is equally unsatisfying to people. The burrs do improve as they run in, certainly within the first 5kg it's very noticeable, after that the gains per Kg show diminishing returns. I would hope most users would have ground 5kg by now? However, even before being run in, it still grinds pretty well, at least I think so.*

I think one of the weird things is with over 1150 grinders in the field and for a brand new product, there have been a remarkably low level of problems. I would have thought there would have been far more issues, not exactly sure, but I think there have been 10 or so problems, all quickly resolved and none down to a flaw in the basic design.

I worked in sales and marketing for many years, you soon learn that if something is bad people shout about it and a small problem can become massive rapidly. When something is good people rarely make as much smoke, they just contentedly carry on with their life. My car is giving me no problems, neither is my washing machine, TV camera, phone, computer, mouse, roaster, coffee machine, shoes whatever....So I don't really think about them and I certainly don't post about them, to say how fantastic they are, how reliable they are....unless people say, I'm thinking of buying a new washing machine, what did you get and why did you choose it. Then they might find I didn't choose the best machine, I chose the "right" machine...and there is a difference.

I think we don't hear too much about the Niche and not much negatives, because people are simply happy with it and carry on with their busy lives. They don't care about electron microscopes, particle analysis, how it compares against a grinder they are unwilling to afford....it just works for them. *Or I'm talking complete garbage, who knows?*


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I think commenting about certain things is far more difficult sometimes. I have the suspicion that making proper comments on certain subjects often requires a fair bit of "work" in the background and people are so busy that they cannot spare the time to do this work.


As one of the "people who don't comment on the taste / extraction" I tried to explain my experience earlier in the thread

Most folks need some knowledge before making comment, changing to single dosing starts a chain of changes. This takes a bit of time and effort.

I would suggest there are not many experienced single dosing folks who have changed from what they have to a Niche. Those folks make a good source of information, but there are probably only a small percentage.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

With regards to the taste, it's sometimes quite difficult to express exactly what you mean.

I moved from the Pharos to the Niche. Both are large conicals but I was surprised how different thy taste. The Pharos wasn't inferior in any way, but I didn't like the tatse as much as I do with the Niche. It was often too fruity and sometimes left a weird taste in any milk based drink and was less forgiving with espresso, resulting in a lot of sink shots which I now very rarely get.

To put this in more accurate words is beyond me, I just know what I like. Describing tastes is fine for you, but other people won't necessarily benefit.Most people who aren't veggie eat beef for example, but to describe it's taste would be difficult.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Come on Joe.....a man with your experience and all that.......tis a fact, that most things in life work a little better once broken in


I was partly joking, though I just wonder how much difference running the burrs in makes. It just seemed like it's being given a little more weight than needed.

It would be pretty interesting to try and do a proper test of it, but I always think about things like that and then wonder how much variance their is between grinders anyway and how you'd decide if you'd hit on the right ratio or recipe or whatever for tasty and so don't bother.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

PPapa said:


> It's weird to see how people don't comment on the taste/extraction the grinder produces. If you mention that it's subpar to other grinders that are around £1k mark, then you get blamed for not getting it seasoned well enough.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - it's nice to see Niche being compared to pricier grinders and it seems to have the best workflow in its price range.


Don't get me wrong - but if one makes a statement about Z (insert "the Niche Zero") being better than brand X type Y you also have to be prepared to get comments by people not agreeing. I think that possibility is a threshold for a lot of people.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

jlarkin said:


> I was partly joking, though I just wonder how much difference running the burrs in makes. It just seemed like it's being given a little more weight than needed.
> 
> It would be pretty interesting to try and do a proper test of it, but I always think about things like that and then wonder how much variance their is between grinders anyway and how you'd decide if you'd hit on the right ratio or recipe or whatever for tasty and so don't bother.


I think there is far too much play being placed on the burr seasoning with the niche, agreed static will dissipate and performance will improve but this is marginal. I have always put a few kilo through a new grinder to get it bedded in. Folk are completely within their rights to say the niche is not for them as are people to say it's the best grinder they have ever had. It's all a matter of personal opinion and practical preference and whether your preference is a compromise


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To go back to the point around appraisal of the Niche , be it by taste or other means. For example I don't have another electric grinder that it would be worth comparing it to (yes the Oracle has a Sage grinder on it but meh). Any comparisons to any other grinders I once owned would be fairly academic as it years since I have used them.

I could as an example do a brewed comparison versus my MBK grinder , but @MWJB did a pretty good analysis of it as a brewed grinder in the Dave's review. Ultimately I own the niche for brewed because I can't be arsed hand grinding most days.

I might stick some shots through it and taste, evaluated and use a refractometer, but again any results will be dependent on my skills, water and coffee used. So what is anyone gonna learn from it? That I enjoy the coffee I make?

Again, i bought a Niche for the workflow and features and it reaches a acceptable standard of taste for me in the cup. Acceptable isn't bad, I enjoy the coffee I make, the point I am trying to make is that it's a balance of price, features, size and expectations for me. For me these all balance out.

If I could swap the Niche for an update to K30 then I would be tempted (I never tired to see if the K30 would go coarse enough for v60) , but I'd have to accept all the drawbacks in that ( retention, more static ) and find someone mad enough to do the swap.

Anyways, I had a very nice Kenyan espresso from Origin this morning at about 17.5 > 38 ish.

Yesterday it really enjoyed my v60s too, more so than some I have had in cafe's recently that were using bigger, better, flat burr grinders. Doesn't mean the Niche is better, just I have more time to brew to my preference.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> I think there is far too much play being placed on the burr seasoning with the niche, agreed static will dissipate and performance will improve but this is marginal. I have always put a few kilo through a new grinder to get it bedded in. Folk are completely within their rights to say the niche is not for them as are people to say it's the best grinder they have ever had. It's all a matter of personal opinion and practical preference and whether your preference is a compromise


but assuming a lot of people are talking total twaddle about Niche and most other things (not being disrespectful but a lot of owners gush as it is their first major purchase) seasoning your burrs is sound advice. A machine with nothing through it will taste worse than a machine with 5 kg or 10 kg through it. What will not change, is the fundamental style of taste a conical produces compared to a flat though


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> but assuming a lot of people are talking total twaddle about Niche and most other things (not being disrespectful but a lot of owners gush as it is their first major purchase) seasoning your burrs is sound advice. A machine with nothing through it will taste worse than a machine with 5 kg or 10 kg through it. What will not change, is the fundamental style of taste a conical produces compared to a flat though


Not disagreeing with you but perceptions change. If you look back 5/6 years ago, you would see posts on here and USA forums stating that a Conical was better for fruity notes and a flat better for accentuating chocolate notes.

Move on a few years and it seems to be the other way around. Flats are default for lighter roasts. Some of this will be due to the way alot of people now pulls shot, moving on from the face melting light roasted ristrettos of a few years back. Things may move on again, if the style or fashion of coffee roasting changes again. From a commercial/cafe point of view I don't see many manufacturers investing in new conical grinders much these days.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I was asked to extend my user experience to perform some public abuse of the Niche Zero lid. I think they took it to heart when some forums commented on the supposed "fragility" of the Polycarbonate (Lexan) lid. So I was asked to share my test process. it's important to realise just how many other aspects of the Niche grinder were tested in a totally abusive way....which I like to think contributes to the reliability of production units in the field. Reliability has been remarkably high, not just for a new product, but for a product full stop. When you see this you will understand why much of the different testing over the last year or so was so difficult for me and I imagine VERY difficult for Martin when there were only a couple of prototype grinders that cost loadsa money each to make!!

Enjoy....


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Finally got youtube to play ball


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Who is so concerned about the lid? This grinder can work without the original lid if something goes wrong.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Leave it to survive.....the point has been made!


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Your poor tamper , how is that







.. might need a polish now .....


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

> DavecUK


 Are you planning to do extreme test on this part?

Without the motor assembly it will be difficult to use Niche. The image is stock.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

L&R said:


> Who is so concerned about the lid? This grinder can work without the original lid if something goes wrong.


There were comments about the lid and flimsiness on Home Barista, Koffieepraat, I think Keffeenetz and our own good forum as well....

That's not the right motor assembly, but it has already had extreme tests done on it, it doesn't need any more. From memory I think around 700 shock stops simulating a total jam with a stone.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

If you keep on pushing it that way and it finaly breaks there is a chance you cut your artery (wrist) in such a way that it would be quite bad.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tohenk2 said:


> If you keep on pushing it that way and it finaly breaks there is a chance you cut your artery (wrist) in such a way that it would be quite bad.


Shhh...It might make a few people quite happy. It was actually so strong I doubt I could have broken it from that angle and fortunately I don't believe if shatters, just finally bends into submission. However, thanks for the warning....


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## Teejay (Dec 4, 2017)

The only other way I could see it breaking was if you moving it to a new location and the lid was open and you clipped a wall. Does that make sense, open lid, pick it up and rotate towards the wall so it gets a side impact. I'm really surprised how much force it was taking being pushed back. Of course the other test would be a drop test but that would smash the whole thang


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

The only thing i can think of is drop it from the bench to the floor on its lid. My money is on the lid surviving.

Place your bets now...

edit: but before that try using it as a step ladder.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Agentb said:


> The only thing i can think of is drop it from the bench to the floor on its lid. My money is on the lid surviving.


I actually agree, I believe the lid would survive, not sure about how the rest of the grinder would fare.



Teejay said:


> The only other way I could see it breaking was if you moving it to a new location and the lid was open and you clipped a wall. Does that make sense, open lid, pick it up and rotate towards the wall so it gets a side impact. I'm really surprised how much force it was taking being pushed back. Of course the other test would be a drop test but that would smash the whole thang


You and me were both surprised at the level of force it would take, I did think I would be able to break it long before applying that much force. I am fairly certain that clipping a wall wouldn't break the lid....well actually I am certain. I think it would be more likely to be knocked out of your hands long before the lid broke.

P.S. Must go and check my tamper is OK, I had to throw it at the grinder loosely held (so I wouldn't hit the paint) to ensure people didn't think I was giving it a pretend beating....


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## Teejay (Dec 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I actually agree, I believe the lid would survive, not sure about how the rest of the grinder would fare.
> 
> You and me were both surprised at the level of force it would take, I did think I would be able to break it long before applying that much force. I am fairly certain that clipping a wall wouldn't break the lid....well actually I am certain. I think it would be more likely to be knocked out of your hands long before the lid broke.
> 
> P.S. Must go and check my tamper is OK, I had to throw it at the grinder loosely held (so I wouldn't hit the paint) to ensure people didn't think I was giving it a pretend beating....


Go at it like this:


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Polycarbonate (or Makrolon as Bayer called it as of the 1950s or so, respectively Lexan as sold by GE from the 70s onwards) is being used in motorsports and aviation for windscreens, other window glazings and (head)lamp lenses for one or two good reasons. It is more or less unbreakable. And lightweight. And shapeable. And flexible. And, when coated, you can't even scratch it.

Thanks Dave for the workout, though!


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

I am confident that my Niche will be placed ( fully working ) beside me in my pyramid when I go. Future generations will marvel at it's longevity. There are many more ( more expensive ) domestic products that I hold no similar hopes for.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Just wondering if anyone else is having this with their Niche or whether I'm just being a bit dim and it has absolutely nothing to do with the niche...

I have some beans on the lighter side of medium (February's D&H Hot roasted love- Nicaragua) and no matter what I do, I can't get the shot past 23 seconds with the ratio I'm aiming for. 17.5g in -> 40g out.

On the naked PF, there are no spritzers and it seems to pour ok, it's a bit sour, but not undrinkable!

I know I could just pull more out, but I don't want to dilute it any more, I can't get any more in the basket and I should be able to slow the shot down in theory, shouldn't I?


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

Grind finer, what seems to be the problem?


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

webdoc said:


> Grind finer, what seems to be the problem?


I've gone a whole notch finer and it just seems to pour faster in the last 10g (slows it down by 1 second maximum), so potentially channeling. I focus quite hard on getting the distribution right so don't think it's that.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> There were comments about the lid and flimsiness on Home Barista, Koffieepraat, I think Keffeenetz and our own good forum as well....
> 
> .


The mmmm idiots probably think it's made of acrylic. Polycarbs are an entirely different animal that is also rather stable, light etc. If you want to stand a chance of damaging it just to see what happens take your tamper at an angle and hit the centre as hard as you can with the edges at about 45 degrees. It wont be the same grade as is used on some face masks but it's surprisingly tough stuff.

Bending it back to break it is likely to take more effort than you might think. What it is likely to do may surprise you.

John

-


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've gone a whole notch finer and it just seems to pour faster in the last 10g (slows it down by 1 second maximum), so potentially channeling. I focus quite hard on getting the distribution right so don't think it's that.


What are you doing with the grinds from picking the can up to getting them into the portafilter?

John

-


----------



## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

ajohn said:


> What are you doing with the grinds from picking the can up to getting them into the portafilter?
> 
> John
> 
> -


Give them the old chop stick stir, flip over on the PF (I have the DTP so only 54mm basket). Tap sides to ensure a perfectly flat bed of grinds, tamp level and off I go. I find that keeping it simple/basic but doing it well and consistently works better for me (in terms of a nice pour) than over complicating it!


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've gone a whole notch finer and it just seems to pour faster in the last 10g (slows it down by 1 second maximum), so potentially channeling. I focus quite hard on getting the distribution right so don't think it's that.


I've got some Crankhouse Finca Hartmann Maragogype and it's about 5 points tighter than the Foundry Rocko Mountain that I've got.

I had it a few weeks ago (can't remember the bean...) as well, some beans just need to be much finer (even more so if they're old).

I'd definitely say to tighten it by a few and see what you've got.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I've gone a whole notch finer and it just seems to pour faster in the last 10g (slows it down by 1 second maximum), so potentially channeling. I focus quite hard on getting the distribution right so don't think it's that.


Dont worry about the faster rate at the end of the extraction , even perfect shots can do that.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Jon_Foster said:


> I've got some Crankhouse Finca Hartmann Maragogype and it's about 5 points tighter than the Foundry Rocko Mountain that I've got.
> 
> I had it a few weeks ago (can't remember the bean...) as well, some beans just need to be much finer (even more so if they're old).
> 
> I'd definitely say to tighten it by a few and see what you've got.


Thanks! I think I was just being a bit wary of going too much finer, but I'll give that a crack in the morning...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Give them the old chop stick stir, flip over on the PF (I have the DTP so only 54mm basket). Tap sides to ensure a perfectly flat bed of grinds, tamp level and off I go. I find that keeping it simple/basic but doing it well and consistently works better for me (in terms of a nice pour) than over complicating it!


Try not stirring. Tap the can down moderately a couple of times onto the mat instead. Invert smartly when getting it into the portafilter. Then tap the lot down vertically and firmly say 5 times. You might find a tap at an angle before that with the can still on helps things finish up level.

You bugged me a bit when you said you can't get more in the basket. Too much can cause grief. Coffee expands and you finish up with a super tamp against the shower screen and the water will still find it's way through some how over some area of the puck. Often though holes can be seen due to channelling.







It's why I usual suggest complete newbies use the razor tool for a while as too low can be bad news as well.

Forgot to add some one else found I did that reducing the dose from what they usually use helped with Niche. More taste but the grinds do seem to expand more. In my case it was 1/2g from 14.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

the holes you see post extraction in a puck are more than likely to OPV taking effect.

Lessending a dose and therefor the coffee expanding more, again is mystifying .

Reducing a dose and creating a shot of the same weight will in theory increase extraction hence improve taste, this is more likely what you are experiencing than coffee expanding more.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> the holes you see post extraction in a puck are more than likely to OPV taking effect.
> 
> Lessending a dose and therefor the coffee expanding more, again is mystifying .
> 
> Reducing a dose and creating a shot of the same weight will in theory increase extraction hence improve taste, this is more likely what you are experiencing than coffee expanding more.


DB maybe but the DTP hasn't got one and in any case channelling looks entirely different to the OPV lifting flakes off.

Perhaps I also ran through 1/2g less on the grinder I did use - if you assume that then you would be correct. Why didn't you?

John

-


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Thanks! I think I was just being a bit wary of going too much finer, but I'll give that a crack in the morning...


I'm in the dog and hat subs and that coffee needed to go a lot tighter than average.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> DB maybe but the DTP hasn't got one and in any case channelling looks entirely different to the OPV lifting flakes off.
> 
> Perhaps I also ran through 1/2g less on the grinder I did use - if you assume that then you would be correct. Why didn't you?
> 
> ...


Why do we need to assume anything? It's not a game of riddle me ree, just state clearly what you did and we'll all be on the same page.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

cold war kid said:


> I'm in the dog and hat subs and that coffee needed to go a lot tighter than average.


I had meant to comment on this in the Facebook group, I found it needed a very tight grind for espresso and also much finer for the pourovers that I tried.

Oh and this wasn't particular to the Niche. I found the same with the EK43.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Wow, usually around 15 for espresso on the Niche, had to crank it back to 11 for this! I'm finally there though with a tasty (and interesting) cuppa!

Thanks for all your help


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Wow, usually around 15 for espresso on the Niche, has to crank it back to 11 for this! I'm finally there though with a tasty (and interesting) cuppa!
> 
> Thanks for all your help


Whats your dose just out of interest


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Whats your dose just out of interest


17.5g for these beans.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Recently I've been having to tighten the grind more and pull a longer shot. It might just be a coincidence with the beans I'm using, but pulling less than 35s with a 1:2 ratio gives me sourness, balancing out at around this time.

Currently using Dr Strangelove from Extract and getting delicious shots with a rather slow pour at 17g->34g.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Something I only consciously realised today is that ever since I have had the Niche I have pretty much had 2 espresso dual boilers on the counter (sometimes 3). I work between them without a second thought. one a Vesuvius with a VST Naked portafilter the others might be A Lelit Bianca, A Minima etc.. The grind on the Vesuvius with my slow ramp profile is normally 5 marks tighter on the Niche than with say a Minima for the same coffee. It sort of came to me this morning as I quickly twisted the top 5 marks tighter and pulled my V shot that before the Minima, I would have found it close to impossible to work 2 or sometimes 3 machines so easily and all I have to do when I pull my Minima shot later is remember to use the grind setting number written in chalk pen on the airscape.

Most people wouldn't have this problem and TBH I took it for granted until I thought about it.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> I had meant to comment on this in the Facebook group, I found it needed a very tight grind for espresso and also much finer for the pourovers that I tried.
> 
> Oh and this wasn't particular to the Niche. I found the same with the EK43.


What Facebook group is it that you mention?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

jonnycooper29 said:


> What Facebook group is it that you mention?


The "Dog & Hat Stomping Ground"


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Something I only consciously realised today is that ever since I have had the Niche I have pretty much had 2 espresso dual boilers on the counter (sometimes 3). I work between them without a second thought. one a Vesuvius with a VST Naked portafilter the others might be A Lelit Bianca, A Minima etc.. The grind on the Vesuvius with my slow ramp profile is normally 5 marks tighter on the Niche than with say a Minima for the same coffee. It sort of came to me this morning as I quickly twisted the top 5 marks tighter and pulled my V shot that before the Minima, I would have found it close to impossible to work 2 or sometimes 3 machines so easily and all I have to do when I pull my Minima shot later is remember to use the grind setting number written in chalk pen on the airscape.
> 
> Most people wouldn't have this problem and TBH I took it for granted until I thought about it.


Ha, crazy isn't it - a few months In to NZ ownership and I've already forgotten what it was like before......... weighing out, trying to guess how much retention they'll be this time when weighing in, wasting those few grams of beans when changing over....


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I took the Niche to make a few coffees for the parents at a kids birthday party on Saturday. I thought it would be quiet but had forgotten how just like me most parents are chronically tired and in need of caffeine . I ended up making about 25 coffees I think (judging by how many cups I got through). Didn't skip a beat and just seem to get really consistent shots once you get going - judging by time of shots etc.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

jlarkin said:


> I took the Niche to make a few coffees for the parents at a kids birthday party on Saturday. I thought it would be quiet but had forgotten how just like me most parents are chronically tired and in need of caffeine . I ended up making about 25 coffees I think (judging by how many cups I got through). Didn't skip a beat and just seem to get really consistent shots once you get going - judging by time of shots etc.


Haha that's good news mate!

Thx for sharing 

While I'd love to start posting in here, I can only admire the new guy from a distance. Currently busy with - guess what - kids! Ill kids that is. Oh and I've already stopped counting just how many cups I had today...


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Something I only consciously realised today is that ever since I have had the Niche I have pretty much had 2 espresso dual boilers on the counter (sometimes 3). I work between them without a second thought. one a Vesuvius with a VST Naked portafilter the others might be A Lelit Bianca, A Minima etc.. The grind on the Vesuvius with my slow ramp profile is normally 5 marks tighter on the Niche than with say a Minima for the same coffee. It sort of came to me this morning as I quickly twisted the top 5 marks tighter and pulled my V shot that before the Minima, I would have found it close to impossible to work 2 or sometimes 3 machines so easily and all I have to do when I pull my Minima shot later is remember to use the grind setting number written in chalk pen on the airscape.
> 
> Most people wouldn't have this problem and TBH I took it for granted until I thought about it.


I'm finding exactly them same. On the V with my long preinfusion profile it is exactly 3 marks finer than on my L1.

This is true for nearly all different beans so once a bean is dialled in on one machine, I can quickly use the bean with the other without going through dialling in again. Very consistant as well. I must stir the grinds though, especially on the L1, otherwise I risk getting channeling. If stirred this is rare.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

You're just spoilt like me









Mr 007


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

(it'll go underneath )

Now dialling in...


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

I suppose it was only a matter of time...










Looks like my Mignon will be up for sale soon!


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

For anyone who is interested, I have just waxed the wood on my Niche (one coat last night and another a couple of hours ago) but not the feet yet so I could look at the difference:


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PaulL said:


> For anyone who is interested, I have just waxed the wood on my Niche (one coat last night and another a couple of hours ago) but not the feet yet so I could look at the difference:


Nice lustre


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Did you rub down the Niche wood first...I suspect (don't know) that it's probably polyurethane (or some similar varnish) coated, or something like that. Someone whose better than me with wood would know, but I think it would have to be sanded before putting something absorbent onto the wood for finishing/waxing?


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

I didn't Dave because it was so dry, just wiped it with a damp sponge and left it for an hour first.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I used Danish oil on mine as it's quick drying and doesn't change the colour all that much









3 coats as directed on the bottle. Brushed on with an kiddies paint brush to save pouring out leaving a decent film of it. Leave for 5 to 10 mins and wipe of the excess with a cloth. Spent some time in the summer before the last coat, 1/2 hr in our combi oven at 40C just to make sure.

I used this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CECZ0OS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Bit concerned as they all probably add driers to the oil, some more than others. This one dries in about 6 hrs as they say even in a cool house. It leaves a very light sheen, Some of that in the photo is down to the flash. No problem getting grinds off it and should if needed be recoated every 12 months. Doubt if it will in practice.

I may have noticed something on the timber initially. Some shiny patches under some lighting conditions so suspect that they are coated in something but can't be sure. The oil soaked in anyway and not noticed the patches since oiling it.

John

-


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Have you guys using oil on the wood removed the feet and top cover? The feet I'm sure simply unbolt but the main cover - if I undo the hex bolt will it be a pain to re-assemble? I'm wondering whether it holds some thing like a bobbin to reel in the mains cable or it is simply bolted into the metal chassis?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

CliveM2 said:


> Have you guys using oil on the wood removed the feet and top cover? The feet I'm sure simply unbolt but the main cover - if I undo the hex bolt will it be a pain to re-assemble? I'm wondering whether it holds some thing like a bobbin to reel in the mains cable or it is simply bolted into the metal chassis?


Just undo the hex bolt and t lifts off...no problem. The back feet hold the bottom to the main body and have much longer bolts. You can take the two front feet off, oil them then replace the back feet one at a time with the front as they are the same


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

I used Osmo on the Oak-wood of my Niche Zero since the wood was very dry, no strange patches afterwards.


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

I received my Niche yesterday and couldn't be happier. I'm still pretty new to all of this and never really wanted to believe when people said how important a good grinder is. But what a difference! Within a few shots I got everything dialed in and the taste is so much better than before.


----------



## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

I've had my Niche for four days now, and I'm very happy with it. It's a huge improvement over my Eureka Mignon.

The wood on my Niche appeared to have no finish/coating whatsoever, at least there was none that I could detect. I use "Boos Block Board Cream" on my wood kitchen cutting boards. It's primarily bee's wax with enough food grade mineral oil to make it pliable. As it's formulated for wood cutting boards, I knew it was food safe. It did a nice job on my Niche's wood parts, which soaked it up like a sponge.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Is the Niche still made / assembled in the UK?

I checked mine and it is, but mine was one of the first ones.

People in OZ are reporting theirs are made in China.

Could anyone who has received one recently check the label at the bottom and report back?

Has Niche have an assembly line there too?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Made by Ed China here. Think they are assembled in the UK though


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

joey24dirt said:


> Made by Ed China here. Think they are assembled in the UK though


What does your label say Joey? Here is mine:


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What does your label say Joey? Here is mine:












That's mine


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

How dare you! have no wood kit on it.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I don't either 

A mechanic will never fix his own car


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

It doesn't matter where they are assembled most of the parts are sourced from China, this is still good grinder though. And because I have both assemblies I could say the CN one is absolutely the same in term of quality.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Jony said:


> How dare you! have no wood kit on it.


Mine stays inside a cupboard...  - I do have Joeys tamper though. Amazing work!


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I don't either
> 
> A mechanic will never fix his own car


never get high on your own supply it is.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Hasi said:


> never get high on your own supply it is.


Where do you get your beans from then?


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## destiny (Jun 4, 2015)

Chinese quality can vary but of they found good manufacturers the quality will be better than of UK. Sad but true.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

From a comment @DavecUK made I suspect assembly in the UK was a family affair. If I remember correctly Mrs Niche put all of the spare springs under the wooden base and cable tied them.

John

-


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

destiny said:


> Chinese quality can vary but of they found good manufacturers the quality will be better than of UK. Sad but true.


I really wish Niche would post photos of the factory and grinder assembly, very impressive.


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Would anyone disagree that family run production is going to have better QC than a third party factory that presumably mass produces goods?

Maybe it's just cynical me as I witnessed (from close family members) how difficult it is for a small businesses to offload the delicate work to a third party.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> Would anyone disagree that family run production is going to have better QC than a third party factory that presumably mass produces goods?
> 
> Maybe it's just cynical me as I witnessed (from close family members) how difficult it is for a small businesses to offload the delicate work to a third party.


Yes, I would completely disagree with you....


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Yes, I would completely disagree with you....


There's two worlds colliding I believe.

One being a local party that really knows what it takes quality-wise.

The other being standardised QM and auditing processes that go hand in hand with the different certifications (CE, PCT, FCC, GS, UL and their likes) often needed to enter specific markets.

It's a sh!teload of work to specify QM workflow, all checks and acceptable tolerances for every square millimetre in and around a product, especially for someone who's new to outsourcing it. Hence the difficulty taking such a step, I'd assess.


----------



## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

The Niche bug is biting....but I don't need an espresso grinder upgrade. How does the Niche perform in the medium-course Chemex/french press range?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

catpuccino said:


> The Niche bug is biting....but I don't need an espresso grinder upgrade. How does the Niche perform in the medium-course Chemex/french press range?


I would grind finer for French press than for Chemex, but that aside, Niche will work fine for coarser grinds.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Hasi said:


> There's two worlds colliding I believe.
> 
> One being a local party that really knows what it takes quality-wise.
> 
> ...


Bit old fashioned approach that. Some industries put quality entirely at the end that produces parts for assembly and don't worry about it, just functionally test the end product - in some cases. Couple it with just in time, just enough stock to keep assembly running, stuff may arrive daily and it can have some interesting repercussions. Such as use it anyway otherwise the assembly line has to stop.








And some one up in the clouds who ?runs? the company right at the top might say why functionally test, they don't test parachutes is a favourite as some one using one of those only knows if it works when they use it.

Plus of course if all companies involved are registered according to the latest fashion all is ok.

John

-


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Where do you get your beans from then?


well, while I was waiting for this comment I couldn't think of an answer


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Bit old fashioned approach that. Some industries put quality entirely at the end that produces parts for assembly and don't worry about it, just functionally test the end product - in some cases. Couple it with just in time, just enough stock to keep assembly running, stuff may arrive daily and it can have some interesting repercussions. Such as use it anyway otherwise the assembly line has to stop.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


May I ask you what cloud you're sitting on today?

It's got entirely nothing to do with old fashioned, it is called reality.

Surely you are free to dream up every possible scenario, I don't have anything against that.

I happen to work in an area that covers many many industries (beverage, packaging of all sorts, commercial cooling, bar/event equipment, consumer products, retail/investment/producer's goods just to name a few of the more important ones) anf noone dared to act as funny as you describe. And I wouldn't recommend anyone to try 

Just sayin mate, no offence meant


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> And some one up in the clouds who ?runs? the company right at the top might say why functionally test, they don't test parachutes is a favourite as some one using one of those only knows if it works when they use it.-


John, I respectfully have to disagree, once when flying a glider I had recourse to use my parachute and it didn't work. Once I picked myself off the ground and found their number (written on the parachute), I phoned the complaints department. I didn't have long to wait at all and a nice young lady answered and was quite concerned to learn it had not worked. She actually told me I was the first ever person to complain about this. She looked through her testing sheets and found not a single form signed and dated by a parachute tester where it had failed to work. She said of course any parachutes that failed to work when needed would receive a no quibble repair and enquired when I purchased said parachute. I told her 11 months ago and she said that it was fortunate it had failed when it did, as another month more it would have been out of warranty and I wouldn't have been able to claim a repair.

I was asked to pack the chute carefully in it's original box and with the original packaging and send it to them at my own expense for a repair, as long as checks showed the Parachute had not been abused or modified in any way. As I had actually used the parachute, a small charge would be made. Really I was quite reassured and pleased with the immediate response to my complaint. Packing the Parachute proved difficult with 3 broken limbs, but they were happy to have me send it when able.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

That's shocking customer service.


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## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

Is there any chance the chinese could then borrow or make knock offs? Shoukd this be a concern or worry.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

itn said:


> Is there any chance the chinese could then borrow or make knock offs? Shoukd this be a concern or worry.


If your talking about Parachutes....yes. If your talking about grinders...no.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> If your talking about Parachutes....yes. If your talking about grinders...no.


No chance of a cheap nishe grinder then.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Also found this little study about Parachutes @ajohn might find it interesting as it contains the very testing he thought didn't happen...read it carefully.

https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Also found this little study about Parachutes @ajohn might find it interesting as it contains the very testing he thought didn't happen...read it carefully.
> 
> https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k5094


LOL It was a quote from a general manager, read big boss pointing out that when packed they aren't tested until some one jumps. How he could equate that to abs ecu's pass.

The link. Given an aircraft and it clearly going to hit the ground I think I would prefer to jump and use a parachute than do nothing while waiting for the end. DIO ?? One thing if some one jumps out without one the end is nigh for certain. How did the persuade some one to jump out with an empty back pack ? Neither seem to have suffered death or serious injury. Then comes a photo.







At least I stopped reading it having noticed the first statistics.

John

-


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ajohn said:


> LOL It was a quote from a general manager, read big boss pointing out that when packed they aren't tested until some one jumps. How he could equate that to abs ecu's pass.
> 
> The link. Given an aircraft and it clearly going to hit the ground I think I would prefer to jump and use a parachute than do nothing while waiting for the end. DIO ?? One thing if some one jumps out without one the end is nigh for certain. How did the persuade some one to jump out with an empty back pack ? Neither seem to have suffered death or serious injury. Then comes a photo.
> 
> ...


Still not quite true, there have been examples of folk jumping out of aircraft and landing in deep snow and surviving, just saying


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## burmanm (Dec 14, 2017)

Is anyone else missing the white dot? I only have the dark empty hole left.. https://photos.app.goo.gl/6PFarsSRoFVwpVau5

And if, how did you fix it? With a white marker?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

They put a shiny ball-bearing in now, but you have the opportunity to steal better halves nail polish.


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

Mine has the shiny ball bearing. I don't think the nail polish would look too good... not really an effective way to cover a hole. I would go to a craft or hobby shop and pick up a shiny bead to fit the hole. Use some clear nail polish in the hole to make sure the bead stays in place.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

MWJB said:


> I would grind finer for French press than for Chemex, but that aside, Niche will work fine for coarser grinds.


I probably would too, the rare French Press brews I do follow James Hoffman's technique, but it seems a fairly common moniker for a course grind.


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

Mine has the shiny ball bearing. I don't think the nail polish would look too good... not really an effective way to cover a hole. I would go to a craft or hobby shop and pick up a shiny bead to fit the hole. Use some clear nail polish in the hole to make sure the bead stays in place.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> The link. Given an aircraft and it clearly going to hit the ground I think I would prefer to jump and use a parachute than do nothing while waiting for the end. DIO ??
> 
> John-


Again @ajohn, I have to respectfully disagree. I am convinced that if you are in an aircraft and it's clearly going to hit the ground, the best course of action is to look out of a window and just before impact jump into the air, thus saving yourself. I believe the same thing works on a free falling elevator.

P.S. If a hippo had wings and was flying around in a cardboard box, how much would the box weigh and could you lift it?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Depends on the weight of the box and if i had eaten my spinach - providing box didn't touch the hipo or it decided to take a rest.

Wish you luck with the lift and the same in an aircraft. You would still be travelling at the speed of either when you hit less a little for any upward velocity you might have gained providing you jumped at exactly the right moment.








On the other hand you would be experiencing weightlessness so would finish up fracturing your skull on either due to the fact that you don't weigh anything at all so would achieve enormous velocity when you jumped until you hit the ceiling.

John

-


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

c'mon folks can we at least let Niche grinders fracture their lids and have them survive if they'd grind exactly in the right moment in case they didn't bring a chute in the first place?


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> P.S. If a hippo had wings and was flying around in a cardboard box, how much would the box weigh and could you lift it?


It would weigh the weight of the box and the hippo.

For the hippo to be airborne it has to exert a downward force to counteract its weight... you would have to 'lift' that downward force.

The plane analogy ?... you would have to jump upwards at the same speed or a little faster than the plane is decending. The G force created by this superhuman effort would break the bones of your legs ,hips and spine.

A zero sum gain would have occurred.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

joe said:


> It would weigh the weight of the box and the hippo.
> 
> For the hippo to be airborne it has to exert a downward force to counteract its weight... you would have to 'lift' that downward force.
> 
> ...


joe, I sense your giving this the proper and serious consideration such a post deserves...thank you.









P.S. I now also know that it will cost a lot to post a flying hippo in a box (well more £5), useful information should such a circumstance ever arise.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Again @ajohn, I have to respectfully disagree. I am convinced that if you are in an aircraft and it's clearly going to hit the ground, the best course of action is to look out of a window and just before impact jump into the air, thus saving yourself. I believe the same thing works on a free falling elevator.


Myth busters laid waste to that idea I'm afraid. Changing your impact speed from too fast to survive to too fast to survive minus a little bit won't help you, even if you could time your jump to the millisecond.... it might stop the rest of the aircraft hitting you though, which might help


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## thesmileyone (Sep 27, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Again @ajohn, I have to respectfully disagree. I am convinced that if you are in an aircraft and it's clearly going to hit the ground, the best course of action is to look out of a window and just before impact jump into the air, thus saving yourself. I believe the same thing works on a free falling elevator.


These are myths. You would have to propell yourself up with the jump, with more force than the force of terminal velocity gravity. Which is impossible. Plus you would have to do it at the split second of time before impact, which at terminal velocity is faster than you can move your legs.

Sorry :/


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

thesmileyone said:


> These are myths. You would have to propell yourself up with the jump, with more force than the force of terminal velocity gravity. Which is impossible. Plus you would have to do it at the split second of time before impact, which at terminal velocity is faster than you can move your legs.
> 
> Sorry :/


Much better to jump out higher to give yourself the best chance of learning to fly. I'm reliably informed it's as simple as aiming for the ground & missing!


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Anybody yet tossed a Niche out of a fecking plane that's about to fecking crash with or without a parachute to check its survival rate? I'd put odds on it passing the crash test dummy test. Who would like to volunteer to go first...


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## thesmileyone (Sep 27, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> Much better to jump out higher to give yourself the best chance of learning to fly. I'm reliably informed it's as simple as aiming for the ground & missing!


Several people have done just this and actually survived, it appears you are in more danger from the shrapnel caused by a metal object made of multiple metal objects hitting the ground next to you than the actual ground.

Atleast if you jump out, and are going to die, there's a chance some millenial can profit off it for his or her instagram following.










Disgusting if you ask me.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

this once was the so-called Niche Zero User Experience thread. Millenials, parachutes, elevators, planes or not.

One thing that I don't get is why using original grind cup is so different from other containers (or even holding the PF straight underneath) to avoid making a mess?

Do you use supplied cup as well?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Hasi said:


> this once was the so-called Niche Zero User Experience thread. Millenials, parachutes, elevators, planes or not.
> 
> One thing that I don't get is why using original grind cup is so different from other containers (or even holding the PF straight underneath) to avoid making a mess?
> 
> Do you use supplied cup as well?


I can't help but think it was a deflection from my question - Dave wasn't interested in discussing the pros and cons of a factory in China.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> I can't help but think it was a deflection from my question - Dave wasn't interested in discussing the pros and cons of a factory in China.


Really, wow how did you get to that?

Your partly right and partly wrong.

*You're wrong in the first part, it was not a deflection from your question at all and I think you're being a bit rude suggesting that.* I did actually comment as far as I could and gave a view in as much as I could be arsed to do so. You are completely correct for the second part, I'm actually not interested in detailed discussion of the pros and cons of any factory in China with you. A discussion where I (and you) don't have all the relevant facts (although I probably have more than you do). It just becomes pointless speculation, a sort of Hilda Ogden conversation. I've never been interested in discussing the merits or not of Chinese factories on forums, not a subject that interests me, why should it.

Just think on what you are saying to people, I know it's a forum, but try to at least be respectful in your opinions. If you want to discuss production and make generalised speculations about Chinese factories, go right ahead and do so with all the people who are interested in discussing it. I will continue to happily give the speculative discussion the attention it deserves....none.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I wonder if Niche will start doing the grind cups separate? I use mine on my EK, while my Niche is at my other half's house. That's paired with the Sage so would be the wring size anyway. *Also I thought I'd do this sentence in bold so it looks like one of DavecUK's posts.. *Maybe I should message Niche and see what they say. I could do with another cup so I have one to weigh, and one to grind into.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think you should email them, it seems you are not alone in wanting grind cups.


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

The grind cups are pretty fantastic. I have to admit, I was envious when I first saw it in use for easy, mess-free transfer to the portafilter, and I'm very pleased to have one now.


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

Rhys said:


> I wonder if Niche will start doing the grind cups separate? I use mine on my EK, while my Niche is at my other half's house. That's paired with the Sage so would be the wring size anyway. *Also I thought I'd do this sentence in bold so it looks like one of DavecUK's posts.. *Maybe I should message Niche and see what they say. I could do with another cup so I have one to weigh, and one to grind into.


The two cup solution would probably be a good one for me. This morning, as my beans were being nicely ground, I realized I was holding the cup in my hand while a lovely mound of ground coffee was being created directly beneath the Niche's chute. I think my dog was laughing at me!


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Hasi said:


> One thing that I don't get is why using original grind cup is so different from other containers (or even holding the PF straight underneath) to avoid making a mess?
> 
> Do you use supplied cup as well?





lhavelund said:


> The grind cups are pretty fantastic. I have to admit, I was envious when I first saw it in use for easy, mess-free transfer to the portafilter, and I'm very pleased to have one now.


I find that ,with a dosing ring of the correct size, I can hook it behind the output shoot and leave it there whilst it grinds. Don't use the cup at all. Only works with a double spout postafilter though.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

joe said:


> I find that ,with a dosing ring of the correct size, I can hook it behind the output shoot and leave it there whilst it grinds. Don't use the cup at all. Only works with a double spout postafilter though.


I've enountered quite some static holding PF directly under the chute and thought, well it must have to do with grind cup geometry (taller and a bit narrower than a double basket).

So I've happily returned to using the cup 

How much won't land in your PF? Any difference to (the very cleanly working) grind cup?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Hasi said:


> I've enountered quite some static holding PF directly under the chute and thought, well it must have to do with grind cup geometry (taller and a bit narrower than a double basket).
> 
> So I've happily returned to using the cup
> 
> How much won't land in your PF? Any difference to (the very cleanly working) grind cup?


I started trying this method a while back (post #1053) but added a plastic sheet as I found for consecutive shots some drips come from the spouts onto the wood. No grounds missed the funnel though.

I've moved back to just the cup as no matter what system you use I needed to stir the grinds in order to distribute the grinds due to being a single doser. So there was no real improvement for me in workflow or pour and its easier to stir the grinds in the cup.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Stevebee said:


> I started trying this method a while back (post #1053) but added a plastic sheet as I found for consecutive shots some drips come from the spouts onto the wood. No grounds missed the funnel though.
> 
> I've moved back to just the cup as no matter what system you use I needed to stir the grinds in order to distribute the grinds due to being a single doser. So there was no real improvement for me in workflow or pour and its easier to stir the grinds in the cup.


Nice solution that! Maybe I'll have to give it a shot... if I can get me hands on a metal dosing ring anytime soon 

need to check height (and maybe think up an attachment for underneath a bottomless PF)...


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Hasi said:


> Nice solution that! Maybe I'll have to give it a shot... if I can get me hands on a metal dosing ring anytime soon
> 
> need to check height (and maybe think up an attachment for underneath a bottomless PF)...


Most of the tall dosing rings work (Tidaka, Orphan Espresso Ipanema, Norvin)

When I was trying this method, I found that if you leave the wooden disk in place , a bottomless works ok with the tall funnels.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Am I the only one that stirs the grinds in the cup and then again in the PF?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Fez said:


> Am I the only one that stirs the grinds in the cup and then again in the PF?


It's all about cherishing one's rituals


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Fez said:


> Am I the only one that stirs the grinds in the cup and then again in the PF?


Wondering what a double is achieving, have you tried doing it just once?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I shake vigorously.

The grounds in the cup that is.

I put the portafilter on top of the cup, shake, turn it over and then a little tap down on the tamping station and remove the cup.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Fez said:


> Am I the only one that stirs the grinds in the cup and then again in the PF?


Nope I do both.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

jlarkin said:


> I shake vigorously.
> 
> The grounds in the cup that is.
> 
> I put the portafilter on top of the cup, shake, turn it over and then a little tap down on the tamping station and remove the cup.


+1


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> Wondering what a double is achieving, have you tried doing it just once?


Initially I was pouring it from the cup straight into the PF. And it seemed to work well, but something at the back of my mind was bugging me. There's only so much distribution you can do once it's all in the PF. Maybe I'm a little OCD haha. And it only took 1 day to see a poor pour for me to incorporate the extra stirring in the cup too.

Only takes a few seconds extra and I kind of enjoy the whole ritual as Hasi says. It's only when I need to make more than 2 cups consecutively does it start to feel like I take too long.


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## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Fez said:


> Am I the only one that stirs the grinds in the cup and then again in the PF?


I have never seen a coffee shop stir or in any other way fiddle with the grounds other than either sweeping a finger across the top or bumping the pf against a palm.

Personally ( for me ) ( and speaking for myself ) I think that life is too short to be stirring coffee grounds with that special magic twig .

I know that it is sacrilege but my shots turn out just fine.

I bought into this wonderful world of prosumer machinery because I do like a good cup of coffee at home... the rituals don't interest nor entertain me at all, though I absolutely accept that others love all the rituals. ( slaughtering your first born on the first Friday after the first full moon of the leap year to appease the vengeful coffee God and thus avoid channelling for another season )

There is a point ,not very far into the journey , when producing a decent cup of coffee turns into a pastime hobby for some and for others it turns into an obsession that consumes them. That is fine.. they are not hurting anyone. There are worse things to get involved in.

As an aside... I bought into this world because I was buying around 10 coffees a week ( £25-£30 a week ) for ,often, indifferent coffees. Bought a Synkronika and stopped buying coffees out. Synkronika has paid for itself twice over already and I think it will last me a lifetime.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

joe said:


> I have never seen a coffee shop stir or in any other way fiddle with the grounds other than either sweeping a finger across the top or bumping the pf against a palm.
> 
> Personally ( for me ) ( and speaking for myself ) I think that life is too short to be stirring coffee grounds with that special magic twig .
> 
> ...


Part of the reason for stirring has nothing to do with ritual. In coffee shops they use on demand grinders with full hoppers so the grind consistency will be the same throughout the 3 or 4 seconds of grinding, therefore no real need for stirring to distribute the grinds.

With the Niche, being a single doser, there may be a difference between the start of the grind (finer) and the last few beans (coarser) as the last few beans are ground. I think some members have ground individual beans one at a time to test this theory and it does affect the grind. So just in case I give it a quick stir to make sure it's an even consistency throughout. Although I have got good pours without doing anything I do seem to get more channeling.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Stevebee said:


> Part of the reason for stirring has nothing to do with ritual. In coffee shops they use on demand grinders with full hoppers so the grind consistency will be the same throughout the 3 or 4 seconds of grinding, therefore no real need for stirring to distribute the grinds.
> 
> With the Niche, being a single doser, there may be a difference between the start of the grind (finer) and the last few beans (coarser) as the last few beans are ground. I think some members have ground individual beans one at a time to test this theory and it does affect the grind. So just in case I give it a quick stir to make sure it's an even consistency throughout. Although I have got good pours without doing anything I do seem to get more channeling.


This is pretty much what my answer would have been @joe


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Due to declining pressure gradient in the vertical plane of the coffee puck as well as due to reduced solubility again in the vertical plane leading to uneven extractions top to bottom, why not make use of the Niche's varying particle size to layer the puck to achieve a more uniform extraction?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nikko said:


> Due to declining pressure gradient in the vertical plane of the coffee puck as well as due to reduced solubility again in the vertical plane leading to uneven extractions top to bottom, why not make use of the Niche's varying particle size to layer the puck to achieve a more uniform extraction?


How would you practically do this.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Nikko said:


> Due to declining pressure gradient in the vertical plane of the coffee puck as well as due to reduced solubility again in the vertical plane leading to uneven extractions top to bottom, why not make use of the Niche's varying particle size to layer the puck to achieve a more uniform extraction?


Hahahaha

I can only assume that this is a joke and you're not serious


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> How would you practically do this.


Finer grinds at the bottom


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Everyone knows . . .






Graded grounds make finer coffee.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nikko said:


> Due to declining pressure gradient in the vertical plane of the coffee puck as well as due to reduced solubility again in the vertical plane leading to uneven extractions top to bottom, why not make use of the Niche's varying particle size to layer the puck to achieve a more uniform extraction?


All grinders produce a varying particles size.

"More uniform" than what? What is your objective scale for uniformity?

What evidence do you have that uniformity is a significant issue, when isolated from grind size distribution? Surely if you can extract normally, extraction uniformity isn't any more/less of an issue than other grinders?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Nikko said:


> Due to declining pressure gradient in the vertical plane of the coffee puck as well as due to reduced solubility again in the vertical plane leading to uneven extractions top to bottom, why not make use of the Niche's varying particle size to layer the puck to achieve a more uniform extraction?


i've missed these pearls of wisdom. Nothing if not entertaining


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

MWJB said:


> All grinders produce a varying particles size.
> 
> "More uniform" than what? What is your objective scale for uniformity?
> 
> What evidence do you have that uniformity is a significant issue, when isolated from grind size distribution? Surely if you can extract normally, extraction uniformity isn't any more/less of an issue than other grinders?


More uniform than extractions where the coffee grinds are evenly distributed.

As extractions vary top to bottom, what is the rational for striving for uniform grinds distribution in the puck?


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Stevebee said:


> i've missed these pearls of wisdom. Nothing if not entertaining


You were obviously slept through your physics o'level lessons.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nikko said:


> You were obviously slept through your physics o'level lessons.


Yes, but you didnt, so give me a practical process for how you are going to do this.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nikko said:


> More uniform than extractions where the coffee grinds are evenly distributed.
> 
> As extractions vary top to bottom, what is the rational for striving for uniform grinds distribution in the puck?


I don't know, this was your notion.

Theoretically, more uniform extractions are where the grind size distribution from the grinder produces a tighter range of particle sizes, allowing a higher, good tasting extraction yield. As yet there is nothing solid that suggests this is separate to grind size distribution (grind size if you like).

There is also nothing that suggests a deliberate layering of the puck leads to more evenness in extraction (again, what is the scale/unit of this concept?).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

the simple fact is, you get what the grinder gives you,,,,,no need to split the atom with your coffeebollocks!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> the simple fact is, you get what the grinder gives you,,,,,no need to split the atom with your coffeebollocks!


You need to split the bean though.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Fez said:


> Am I the only one that stirs the grinds in the cup and then again in the PF?


I used to but most of the time I just do the one stir in the cup now.

Occasionally I stir in the PF if the grounds are sitting too low to be levelled with my (ripoff) OCD tool. That fluffs them up enough to be levelled. Just depends on the beans, this months LSOL needed to be stirred twice most of the time or I'd get lots of squirting!!

Now I grind/stir in cup/Level grounds in PF with shaking & tapping/OCD/tamp.

Previously I wasn't doing the shaking and tapping stage and that's why I needed to stir twice.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

MWJB said:


> I don't know, this was your notion.
> 
> Theoretically, more uniform extractions are where the grind size distribution from the grinder produces a tighter range of particle sizes, allowing a higher, good tasting extraction yield. As yet there is nothing solid that suggests this is separate to grind size distribution (grind size if you like).
> 
> There is also nothing that suggests a deliberate layering of the puck leads to more evenness in extraction (again, what is the scale/unit of this concept?).


I was challenging the accepted wisdom of the Niche community that the changing particle size as the grind proceeds needs to be "homogenised" by grinding into a cup, mixing and what not. Why strive for a homogeneous grind distribution in the puck when the extraction process top to bottom is not uniform.

In the circumstances of a real world extraction process, a layered puck seems a more logical proposition. May be somebody could try it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not think the Niche at £500 is the dogs bollocks but who cares. ShKe a little, stir a little and get over the laboratory Approach you have. Have you ever told us what gear you have?


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

http://socraticcoffee.com/2016/06/exploring-the-impact-of-particles-on-espresso-extraction/


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Nikko said:


> You were obviously slept through your physics o'level lessons.


I'm sorry, your post seemed to be just your opinion. Must have missed the bit that contained actual facts.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Not wanting to disrupt the no doubt rewarding flow and certainly not wanting to divert attention from the subject of shaken or stirred...this all reminds me of:






Substitute whatever name you want for DC


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Not wanting to disrupt the no doubt rewarding flow and certainly not wanting to divert attention from the subject of shaken or stirred...this all reminds me of:


Bring me one as well, keep the fruit.


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

The Socrates study is interesting. If their conclusion that a layered puck makes little difference is correct, then it follows that homogenising the particle distribution likewise makes little difference.


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Nikko said:


> May be somebody could try it.


Are you thinking by grinding direct into the PF and assuming it would be layered that way or something else?


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Stevebee said:


> I'm sorry, your post seemed to be just your opinion. Must have missed the bit that contained actual facts.


if you are entertained by facts you did not know, I am entertained by your ignorance.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nikko said:


> The Socrates study is interesting. If their conclusion that a layered puck makes little difference is correct, then it follows that homogenising the particle distribution likewise makes little difference.


You're mangling together two different things.

Layering the puck - distribution of grounds produced by the grinder (particle distribution is decided, we're now just talking about where they sit in the puck).

Particle distribution - the tightness, or otherwise, of the spread of sizes produced by the grinder in question, at a given setting.


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

jlarkin said:


> Are you thinking by grinding direct into the PF and assuming it would be layered that way or something else?


Exactly - grind directly into the pf.


----------



## Power Freak (Dec 14, 2018)

DavecUK said:


>


Off topic cocktail rant:

Modern Lillet blanc is not a suitable substitute for Kina Lillet in a Vesper Martini unless you infuse it with Quinine bark, the nearest modern day equivalent would be Cocchi Americano.

(While you're at it change the Gordon's for a better gin too!)

On topic:

How would one practically "layer" the portafilter? I could see technically it could make sense but in the practical real world I can't think of a method that would work consistently. I feel the inconsistency compared to a stir/distribution method would far outweigh any technically "improved" extraction.


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

MWJB said:


> You're mangling together two different things.
> 
> Layering the puck - distribution of grounds produced by the grinder (particle distribution is decided, we're now just talking about where they sit in the puck).
> 
> Particle distribution - the tightness, or otherwise, of the spread of sizes produced by the grinder in question, at a given setting.


If it was not clear I was always talking about layering the puck.


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Power Freak said:


> Off topic cocktail rant:
> 
> Modern Lillet blanc is not a suitable substitute for Kina Lillet in a Vesper Martini unless you infuse it with Quinine bark, the nearest modern day equivalent would be Cocchi Americano.
> 
> ...


wait for the first Mazzer ZM Electronic firmware update... it'll be at your fingertips


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Stevebee said:


> Part of the reason for stirring has nothing to do with ritual. In coffee shops they use on demand grinders with full hoppers so the grind consistency will be the same throughout the 3 or 4 seconds of grinding, therefore no real need for stirring to distribute the grinds.
> 
> With the Niche, being a single doser, there may be a difference between the start of the grind (finer) and the last few beans (coarser) as the last few beans are ground. I think some members have ground individual beans one at a time to test this theory and it does affect the grind. So just in case I give it a quick stir to make sure it's an even consistency throughout. Although I have got good pours without doing anything I do seem to get more channeling.


Does any of it matter as long as one works with repeatability?

If my grinder grinds the same way every time and that is what I dial my coffee making to then I will get good results every time. The Socratic study ( from my reading of it ) seems to indicate that stirring makes no difference.

People talk about the different particle sizes from start to finish of the grind as if it is a problem. It is just a fact. A fact that we work with ... I don't see a problem other than one is possibly extracting ever so slightly less from the slightly larger particles than one could. All that represents in the real world is a very very slight waste of coffee caused by very very slight under extraction.

I still say that it is repeatability than matters.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

joe said:


> Does any of it matter as long as one works with repeatability?
> 
> If my grinder grinds the same way every time and that is what I dial my coffee making to then I will get good results every time. The Socratic study ( from my reading of it ) seems to indicate that stirring makes no difference.
> 
> ...


The Socratic study concluded that layering specific particle sizes had no effect on tds or time.

However, apart from the control, they excluded fines (300um).

When these were included the time was halved and the tds higher. The control probably represents real world.

So if fines and boulders have such an effect, it might be significant where they are in the portafilter.

With an on-demand full hopper, I'm guessing they would both be produced at a constant rate as there is pressure from the beans above. With single dosing there could be more fines produced at the start with more boulders at the end of the grind. Even Socratic concluded that they need to do more work to explore the effect of fines.

Without stirring when single dosing this possible difference in fines / boulders distribution could affect the shot.

As I have actually used a Niche and tried stirring, not stirring, grinding direct into cup, grinding into the portafilter what I've found is that I have more consistant shots after mixing the grinds either in the cup or portafilter.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

joe said:


> Does any of it matter as long as one works with repeatability?
> 
> If my grinder grinds the same way every time and that is what I dial my coffee making to then I will get good results every time. The Socratic study ( from my reading of it ) seems to indicate that stirring makes no difference.
> 
> ...


Are you getting any channeling on your naked pf


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you getting any channeling on your naked pf


No.


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

I stir in the cup, something I have done for age's even before the arrival of the Niche, and then straight into the portafilter, a quick level, ocd & tamp. Another reason I stir is it's a recommendation from @coffeechap in his review, and it works for me  https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=639212


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you getting any channeling on your naked pf


only when I take my clothes off


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Nikko said:


> Exactly - grind directly into the pf.


It doesn't work. There's static charge and grinds cling on to the sides of the basket, funnel or whatever. It won't layer as you are imagining. You obviously never used a single dose grinder I take?


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

joe said:


> No.


I'm guessing youre in the minority then as I do, along with many others from DavecUK to Coffeechap, not exactly newbies. It's not every shot but enough to ensure that I stir every time.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stevebee said:


> I'm guessing youre in the minority then as I do, along with many others from DavecUK to Coffeechap, not exactly newbies. It's not every shot but enough to ensure that I stir every time.


I do, but initially I didn't. I don't find it makes a huge difference, perhaps sometimes? However I always say if the joe doesn't get any problems and can't taste any difference, then it doesn't really matter.


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

It's not every time, about 1 in 4 or 5, but enough for me to stir.


----------



## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey, order placed yesterdsy night for a black version to match my oracle.

Just been informed it should be here with me tomorrow. Yay!!!!

Mo


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Chinese production ended waiting lists.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It seems they did some extensive testing on Home Barista together with some blind tasting...and even used the term "game changer"









https://www.home-barista.com/reviews/niche-zero-grinder-review-t57516.html#p649295


----------



## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

My white Niche is en route and should be with me tomorrow. Let the games begin!


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

filthynines said:


> My white Niche is en route and should be with me tomorrow. Let the games begin!


My black one is coming tomorrow too.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

My Niche arrived, it's a beautiful looking well built machine. I've ground a few beans through it, feels leagues ahead of my Sage in every way.

I wasn't sure what grind setting to start with, 20 would have been a good idea but I went much finer, totally choked my DTP. Second go I tried around the 21 mark, this was pretty close to perfect. 17g of beans in, 17g grinds out and 39g into the cup in 30 seconds. I've only used Lavazza beans so far. The resulting shot looking pretty good and I think did actually taste better then last time I tried it, though I've only tried one before. I will try some Pact beans next but I understand it will take a while to season the burrs. 10kgs according to the manual, that will take me a while.

Edit - just had another go with the Pact beans, tasted better than ever.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

When your grinder outclasses your coffee machine.


----------



## jymbob (Aug 24, 2017)

Nick1881 said:


> When your grinder outclasses your coffee machine.


You know what that means, right?

For sale threads are that way -->


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

jymbob said:


> You know what that means, right?
> 
> For sale threads are that way -->


Lever Day thread is this way


----------



## Raymondlin (Apr 16, 2019)

Now I want one of these.


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

jymbob said:


> You know what that means, right?
> 
> For sale threads are that way -->


It means he's on the upgrade path in the correct order.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

So I'm doing something right? Makes a change for me.

Need to save up for the next upgrade though and do a lot more reading and learning.


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)




----------



## Niche Coffee (Aug 4, 2017)

For anyone interested, currently orders from UK and Europe are now shipped the same working week or early the following week.


----------



## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Niche Coffee said:


> For anyone interested, currently orders from UK and Europe are now shipped the same working week or early the following week.


Guys, I was probably the 2nd person on the forum to receive my Niche a few months ago and remain a happy owner. But if the original investment and 'perks' was fulfilled, why are new ones still using this approach rather than a product purchase on Indigogo or your own web-site?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

PaulL said:


> Guys, I was probably the 2nd person on the forum to receive my Niche a few months ago and remain a happy owner. But if the original investment and 'perks' was fulfilled, why are new ones still using this approach rather than a product purchase on Indigogo or your own web-site?


Don't want to be dismissive but we did this discussion a while ago.

the short answer is because Indie Go Go allow them too and because that's they way Niche want to sell them.

Anyone than that , Niche would need to answer.

For other points I'd suggest people add to this thread and not derail another Niche thread with this discussion.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?48308&p=657016#post657016


----------



## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

This might be of some interest to the Niche owners.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'll have to thank decent espresso for how to make a simple portafilter holder for it.

I'm currently dosing directly into the portafilter but if I did it like that grinds would go all over the place as well as into the portafilter.

John

-


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Back to stirring.....

I've tried not stirring, stirring a little to agitate perhaps and stirring a lot so that grinds are completely redistributed from one part of the pf to another.

I found some difference sometimes with an 18g vst though with the 15g vst I now normally use I found the only way to get a decent, even pour is to stir a lot.

So the cruel mistress that is the 15g has been tamed and I for one stir fully every time now


----------



## Chingachgook (Apr 18, 2019)

Hi everyone, my first post here! I just finished skimming this entire thread for the last few hours. My question pertains to those of you who use this for pour over: V60, Chemex, etc. I've seen a couple posts from you who have tried V60 pours and gotten good results -- but only a few.

I have a Baratza Virtuoso+ on pre-order but I'm hoping to eventually get into espresso down the road. When I learned of the Niche, I was incredibly intrigued by it's gorgeous design and single dosing. One of the main drawbacks for me when it came to trying espresso was needing to purchase two grinders since I'm a simple home coffee lover but don't have a lot of space.

Will this be sufficient for my V60 and Chemex? I would be using it primarily for pour over and eventually espresso down the road. I'm by no means a coffee snob -- but if I'm spending this much I just wanted to dive into this topic a bit more. I've read DaveC's review and it seemed promising.

Thank you!


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Welcome and yes it will be great for v60 etc - see the other niche threads for more discussion.

I regularly flick between espresso and aeropress on mine.

When I flick back to espresso from an aeropress grind - which is a large difference in setting - it's always bang-on for espresso again


----------



## Chingachgook (Apr 18, 2019)

kennyboy993 said:


> Welcome and yes it will be great for v60 etc - see the other niche threads for more discussion.
> 
> I regularly flick between espresso and aeropress on mine.
> 
> When I flick back to espresso from an aeropress grind - which is a large difference in setting - it's always bang-on for espresso again


Excellent! Thank you for the quick reply. I think it's time to get in queue and place an order. Very excited.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Chingachgook said:


> Hi everyone, my first post here! I just finished skimming this entire thread for the last few hours. My question pertains to those of you who use this for pour over: V60, Chemex, etc. I've seen a couple posts from you who have tried V60 pours and gotten good results -- but only a few.
> 
> I have a Baratza Virtuoso+ on pre-order but I'm hoping to eventually get into espresso down the road. When I learned of the Niche, I was incredibly intrigued by it's gorgeous design and single dosing. One of the main drawbacks for me when it came to trying espresso was needing to purchase two grinders since I'm a simple home coffee lover but don't have a lot of space.
> 
> ...


I use it for v60 and chemex and get good results equal to my previous made by knock hand grinder


----------



## joe (Nov 13, 2014)

Chingachgook said:


> Excellent! Thank you for the quick reply. I think it's time to get in queue and place an order. Very excited.


There is no queue now... just a few days.


----------



## Chingachgook (Apr 18, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> I use it for v60 and chemex and get good results equal to my previous made by knock hand grinder


What numbers are you using for your V60 and Chemex? That's encouraging to hear, love the Knock.


----------



## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Chingachgook said:


> What numbers are you using for your V60 and Chemex? That's encouraging to hear, love the Knock.


Everyone's calibration is likely to be different so yours may not be the same. Just have a play with a few settings and you should soon settle on a rough area, then fine tune from there.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Chingachgook said:


> What numbers are you using for your V60 and Chemex? That's encouraging to hear, love the Knock.


Someone in this thread suggested setting the dial to 50, putting a second marker at 0, and then using the second marker to extend the numbers (so 1 becomes 51, 2 becomes 52, etc).

With this system I set V60 grind around 70.

Hope that makes sense


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Someone in this thread suggested setting the dial to 50, putting a second marker at 0, and then using the second marker to extend the numbers (so 1 becomes 51, 2 becomes 52, etc).
> 
> With this system I set V60 grind around 70.
> 
> Hope that makes sense


I need to try this. I have a V60 most mornings using the niche, but can't seem to find an area I'm happy with.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Me to I am after Zero sometimes below. I think 50 is near the Calibration.


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

smart!

will do as well


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Hasi said:


> smart!
> 
> will do as well


You in the right place.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

So I tried going off the scale. Didn't go too far. Basically I'm hovering on the red dot (safety switch) and it's producing a way nicer cup 

Thanks for the suggestion guys


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

I came as far as marking the 50-zero...


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> So I tried going off the scale. Didn't go too far. Basically I'm hovering on the red dot (safety switch) and it's producing a way nicer cup
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion guys


52/53 then, what's your total time


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Jony said:


> 52/53 then, what's your total time


I'm supposed to time it?!

 erm 2.30 - 3 mins or something like that.

I put in 15gram and weigh out between 180-200


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I try to get mine all under 3mins, so around 230 on wards. But when I go 50 plus mark they go longer


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

joey24dirt said:


> I'm supposed to time it?!
> 
> erm 2.30 - 3 mins or something like that.
> 
> I put in 15gram and weigh out between 180-200


Weigh the output by all means, but weigh the water poured too. A 20g swing in output will make your brews very inconsistent, you'll have so much noise you will have trouble settling on a setting.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Weigh the output by all means, but weigh the water poured too. A 20g swing in output will make your brews very inconsistent, you'll have so much noise you will have trouble settling on a setting.


I had no idea that the extra 20g here and there would make so much difference. It's not normally that extreme, usually 5-6 either way.

Do you have a go to recipe for newbies in the brewing world? I'd very much appreciate the help


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

joey24dirt said:


> I had no idea that the extra 20g here and there would make so much difference. It's not normally that extreme, usually 5-6 either way.
> 
> Do you have a go to recipe for newbies in the brewing world? I'd very much appreciate the help


For 1 8oz mug brew with 223g water.

Make a divot in the bed.

As soon as kettle clicks off boil/with a preheated pouring kettle, about 300g in the kettle should do (too full and it will be hard to pour gently)...

Bloom gently with 23g (roughly, if you go over, just catch up on the next pour), quickly swirl or stir to get the bed well wetted. Don't pour so hard that water passes straight through, pour 'onto' not through the bed.

00:20 add up to 56g

00:40 add up to 90g

1:00 add up to 123g

1:20 add up to 156g

1:40 add up to 190g

2:00 add up to 223g

For 01 brewer pour all in spirals, if a bit silty/chewy, try pouring the last couple straight down the middle. Dry bed around 2:50 +/-15s, leave it to drip for 30-40sec before removing brewer.

For 02 brewer start the first pour as a spiral then go all down the middle for the rest. Dry bed around 2:30 +/-15s, leave it to drip for 30-40sec before removing brewer.

All pours drop straight down from kettle spout, taking ~10s each...they will take a little longer as the level in the kettle drops. Don't hose the bed with a hosepipe style arc of water.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MWJB said:


> For 1 8oz mug brew with 223g water.
> 
> Make a divot in the bed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the recipe. I'll give it a go in the morning and let you know my findings


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

And me.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

MWJB said:


> For 1 8oz mug brew with 223g water.
> 
> Make a divot in the bed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this @MWJB









Apologies if I'm missing it somewhere but what weight of beans for this recipe?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jon_Foster said:


> Thanks for this @MWJB
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The most important aspect with drip is to pour the water the same way each time, so that's what I focussed on, but you're right I didn't state it...I aimed for a water amount that would give joey24dirt ~190g in the cup with his 15g dose. You could use 13.5 to 14.5g (60-65g/L) depending on how strong you wanted the result, split the difference & say 14g?


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

MWJB said:


> The most important aspect with drip is to pour the water the same way each time, so that's what I focussed on, but you're right I didn't state it...I aimed for a water amount that would give joey24dirt ~190g in the cup with his 15g dose. You could use 13.5 to 14.5g (60-65g/L) depending on how strong you wanted the result, split the difference & say 14g?


Brilliant, thank you


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

So did two beans with the above recipe 14g around 52/3 Rocko from Cartwheel. Not the best. Next up Colonna Discovery 0 on the Niche, this time got the Peach straight through. This is the first time in a while that it's been bang on. Thanks MWJB

Timing wise from 0 I was bang on with time on the Rocko I was over.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Looking forward to trying this recipe out today!

@MWJB I use one of your recipes for V60 that's similar, (14.5/240, with 6 35g pours after bloom but no divot and slightly more water to bloom).

Out of curiosity why the divot and less water to bloom with this recipe? Or does it simply taste better that way?

I used the "old" recipe for the new LSOL yesterday (Niche set at 70 using the second marker system and it was good, but maybe a little roasty...it ran a little long though (3.15) so I'll try and open it a little more when I try this recipe today.

Thanks again!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jony said:


> So did two beans with the above recipe 14g around 52/3 Rocko from Cartwheel. Not the best. Next up Colonna Discovery 0 on the Niche, this time got the Peach straight through. This is the first time in a while that it's been bang on. Thanks Boots
> 
> Timing wise from 0 I was bang on with time on the Rocko I was over.


I wouldn't be surprised if the Rocko took longer, Ethiopians can do and still be normal.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jon_Foster said:


> Looking forward to trying this recipe out today!
> 
> @MWJB I use one of your recipes for V60 that's similar, (14.5/240, with 6 35g pours after bloom but no divot and slightly more water to bloom).
> 
> ...


The divot makes it easier to get the dose wet as you don't have the full depth of grounds in the middle of the brewer.

The amount of water to bloom is really a result of total water, 6 pours of 33g gives 200g plus bloom, 6 pours of 35g gives 210g plus 30g bloom if brewing with 240g total. My preference is to use the least amount of bloom water that gets the job done, I don't want significant liquid dripping through until I start the pour proper.

Essentially, "old" & this recipe are the same thing, just minor changes in total brew water & cutting bloom time down to 20s from 30s.

I like the bloom ending in a "3", then the pours of 33g because the pattern repeats every 100g, once you have that memorised it saves the grey matter having to work in multiples of 35.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

MWJB said:


> The divot makes it easier to get the dose wet as you don't have the full depth of grounds in the middle of the brewer.
> 
> The amount of water to bloom is really a result of total water, 6 pours of 33g gives 200g plus bloom, 6 pours of 35g gives 210g plus 30g bloom if brewing with 240g total. My preference is to use the least amount of bloom water that gets the job done, I don't want significant liquid dripping through until I start the pour proper.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this!

I've been using a V60 for just over a year but my brews can still be a bit inconsistent so all info is very gratefully received!!

Thanks again


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

MWJB said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the Rocko took longer, Ethiopians can do and still be normal.


Just corrected the name, lol sorry haha


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ok just got back in thought ok try again, thought it might be a one off. Nope it was great again. This time as it cooled right down the Violet came through so I am pretty impressed. Thanks again.


----------



## NoDRaC (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi CoffeeForums this is my first comment in this forum i want to ask question.

I used to have Nuova Simonelli Musica and Mazzer Mini for 5 years. One month ago i purchased Lelit Bianca. Now i want to change my mazzer mini. My budget 700euro. Do you sugest Niche grinder replace with Mazzer Mini? Can i feel difference better way between mazzer mini and niche?


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I had a go, but with my kids being as they are at the moment (f&@king insane) it was hard to concentrate.

Will try again later


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

NoDRaC said:


> Hi CoffeeForums this is my first comment in this forum i want to ask question.
> 
> I used to have Nuova Simonelli Musica and Mazzer Mini for 5 years. One month ago i purchased Lelit Bianca. Now i want to change my mazzer mini. My budget 700euro. Do you sugest Niche grinder replace with Mazzer Mini? Can i feel difference better way between mazzer mini and niche?


This will be a worthwhile update, you will benefit from larger burrs(conical) and low retention. I used to have Mazzer Mini E and it has 3g. retention if you not purge it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

L&R said:


> I used to have Mazzer Mini E and it has 3g. retention if you not purge it.


3g? Using it normally with the grid in place?


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> 3g? Using it normally with the grid in place?


I've measured 2-2.5g on my Mini E (model B)

The Niche is a totally different thing, though. What counts more than the additional faff that comes with single dosing is better taste in the cup


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Ok. On the Mazzer, I always thought it was much higher than that, like 10g of grounds from the previous shot compacted behind the chute.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hasi said:


> I've measured 2-2.5g on my Mini E (model B)
> 
> The Niche is a totally different thing, though. What counts more than the additional faff that comes with single dosing is better taste in the cup


Re: Niche. I know. I have one . Excellent grinder.


----------



## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Has anybody found an elegant way to transfer coffee from the Niche cup into a La Pavoni 49mm portafilter? I'm losing quite a bit because it sits on the rim rather than inside because it is designed for a much bigger PF.

Looks like this is the best option? https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/coffee-dosing-funnel-58mm49mm51mm-7014-p.asp?_=&variantid=7029


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

filthynines said:


> Has anybody found an elegant way to transfer coffee from the Niche cup into a La Pavoni 49mm portafilter? I'm losing quite a bit because it sits on the rim rather than inside because it is designed for a much bigger PF.
> 
> Looks like this is the best option? https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/coffee-dosing-funnel-58mm49mm51mm-7014-p.asp?_=&variantid=7029


Yes. This is what I use *at the moment*. You can get el cheapo versions on eBay.

Watch this space.


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Here u go...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/coffee-grinder-dosing-funnel-49-mm-coffee-catcha-catcher-/173173341501?nav=SEARCH


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## Mr Kirk (Oct 5, 2017)

Or this?

http:// https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303014895618


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Thanks both - the latter ebay link is no good to me because it's 58mm. Might go for the cheapo...


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Yes. This is what I use *at the moment*. You can get el cheapo versions on eBay.
> 
> Watch this space.


Intruging and cryptic! For what am I watching out for??


----------



## Mr Kirk (Oct 5, 2017)

filthynines said:


> Thanks both - the latter ebay link is no good to me because it's 58mm. Might go for the cheapo...


If you look at the picture showing the underside it has an inner lip which should be 49mm. I saw another eBay auction which showed the dimensions but it was more expensive.

This one

http:// https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323604592565


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## mgwolf (Nov 9, 2012)

> Has anybody found an elegant way to transfer coffee from the Niche cup into a La Pavoni 49mm portafilter? I'm losing quite a bit because it sits on the rim rather than inside because it is designed for a much bigger PF.
> 
> Looks like this is the best option? https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/coffee...variantid=7029


The Orphan espresso Ipanema funnel works very well and is available in various sizes. The top of the funnel is 58mm. I use the 49 mm size for my Cremina.

http://www.oehandgrinders.com/OE-Ipanema-495mm-Aluminum-Dosing-Cylinder-_p_26.html


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## webdoc (Jan 22, 2019)

There's a 15 euro version as well on ebay


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

filthynines said:


> Intruging and cryptic! For what am I watching out for??


Watch this space... I had a brainwave...  something is brewing as we speak...


----------



## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Mr Kirk said:


> If you look at the picture showing the underside it has an inner lip which should be 49mm. I saw another eBay auction which showed the dimensions but it was more expensive.
> 
> This one
> 
> https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323604592565


You're right; my apologies - I completely missed the point I had in mind!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Watch this space... I had a brainwave...  something is brewing as we speak...


Too late for a V60!


----------



## NoDRaC (Nov 16, 2012)

L&R said:


> This will be a worthwhile update, you will benefit from larger burrs(conical) and low retention. I used to have Mazzer Mini E and it has 3g. retention if you not purge it.


Thank you for your reply. What about taste? Do you taste difference? Better way?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Watch this space... I had a brainwave...  something is brewing as we speak...


Was this the brainwave we spoke about, but I then forgot about?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

NoDRaC said:


> Thank you for your reply. What about taste? Do you taste difference? Better way?


Taste wise you will have an upgrade too.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

joey24dirt said:


> Was this the brainwave we spoke about, but I then forgot about?


It was indeed!


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It was indeed!


Have you outsourced, or are you still waiting for me to get my act together?


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

I ended up going for one of those ebay funnels. It's actually quite a faff to fill the portafilter for my La Pav without getting coffee everywhere. Niche should sell some funnels at cost to help with this.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Have you got a link to the funnel please @filthynines? I suffer from the same thing


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Jacko112 said:


> Have you got a link to the funnel please @filthynines? I suffer from the same thing


Sure thing @Jacko112 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/coffee-grinder-dosing-funnel-49-mm-coffee-catcha-catcher/173173341501?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908103841%26meid%3D99c325cbdbc64cd087ae7100f9594980%26pid%3D100227%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D173173341501%26itm%3D173173341501&_trksid=p2054502.c100227.m3827

It says the seller is away, but I've received notification that it was posted.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

joey24dirt said:


> Have you outsourced, or are you still waiting for me to get my act together?


He might of .....


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Nicknak said:


> He might of .....


Good haha.

I rarely get to use the lathe at work now


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

joey24dirt said:


> Good haha.
> 
> I rarely get to use the lathe at work now


It's a lot time consuming than people , I thought ..


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Watch this space... I had a brainwave...  something is brewing as we speak...


The secret is out!

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?49773-Niche-to-Pavoni

@filthynines ^^^^


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Nice! I hope it works for you!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

My funnel arrived today. Just the ticket - much less mess, much less guesswork about which side the grinds are leaning up against ready to fall out as soon as I move the cup.


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## Chingachgook (Apr 18, 2019)

For anyone who has used / owns the Lido E / 3 / ET : Which method do you prefer now that you have your Niche? I make 2-3 pour overs a day and I've never owned a hand grinder. I'm still considering a Lido over the Niche from a cost perspective. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.


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## Mesmer (Jul 2, 2017)

Can the Niche grind at very fine levels without clogging or high retention? Something like turkish?

My current grinder clogs up quite easily so i'm curious how it compares.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mesmer said:


> Can the Niche grind at very fine levels without clogging or high retention? Something like turkish?
> 
> My current grinder clogs up quite easily so i'm curious how it compares.


Not sure it goes to Turkish levels.

I had my down at 5 on the scale yesterday as i was messing bout with long preinfusion and it didn't clog or retain (was a lighter roast )


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mesmer said:


> Can the Niche grind at very fine levels without clogging or high retention? Something like turkish?
> 
> My current grinder clogs up quite easily so i'm curious how it compares.


In testing I took it down to Turkish levels and it didn't clog or seem to overly increase retention. It will increase retention a little of course, but it didn't seem to bad to me, however I should stress 3 points.

1. It's not designed for Turkish grinding, so no comeback if it doesn't do it or you. The Kony burrs are also not designed for Turkish grinding.

2. The grinder was clean inside, so if it's used for months without cleaning it may well get sticky inside. Especially the sweep arms should be kept clean/polished with a microfibre cloth.

3. I don't use oily beans.


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

I'm just checking I'm not being a numpty, as am new to all this, and the Niche.

I bought some of Rave's Cold Brew pre ground recently, which was lovely, but when trying to replicate the coarseness of grind that I could see in the Rave bag, with some beans from Coffee Compass, I was having to go all the way round and back past zero to get there. Is that normal?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

biggow said:


> I'm just checking I'm not being a numpty, as am new to all this, and the Niche.
> 
> I bought some of Rave's Cold Brew pre ground recently, which was lovely, but when trying to replicate the coarseness of grind that I could see in the Rave bag, with some beans from Coffee Compass, I was having to go all the way round and back past zero to get there. Is that normal?


That would be a very coarse grind, sounds about right (though grinding coarse for cold brew mystifies me, but I know a lot of folk do it).


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Thought it about time to clean out the Niche, so in we went and what you see below is every thing possible to get out including some popcorn bits, the underside of the top burr, and below the sweeper arms. Everything possible to remove was removed, feel somewhat disappointed that was all there was for half an hours efforts, but then again glad it's still living up to expectations.


----------



## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

I'd love some guidance on where I may be going wrong.

I've tested 3 different coffees with the Niche and V60 combo, and am struggling to get good results.

The first coffee I tried was Coffee Compass' Java Jampit, and I used the Niche's guide markings to try and dial it in, but just kept getting a really bitter cup. I contacted dfk41 for his advice, and he recommended letting the Java sit for a week or so, which I did, but that didn't seem to change my initial results. Then, having read back through some of this thread, it seems that going way coarser than the Niche's recommendations is the way to go, but having gone coarser and coarser (before reading the thread) and ending up into the 40's, I gave up on that coffee and used it for cold brew.

At the same time as trying to dial in the Java Jampit I was also testing some Honduras Finca Cerro Azul Red Bourbon Natural Process, also from Coffee Compass, and that tasted fantastic right around the 33 mark on the Niche.

Then, last night, I tried some El Salvador Finca Las Brumas Wild Forest Project Washed SL28 from Hasbean, and this time tried 40 initially, which was REALLY bitter, so moved the dial right round to where the red calibration dot is, but still got a really bitter cup. Finally, I moved the dial right round to just past the 0 mark, and still the coffee was very bitter.

For info. I've been grinding 15g of beans, for 250ml of water, and with the Hasbean coffee I was getting total brew times of about 2min30s at 40 on the dial, and then just over 2.00mins when at the red dot, and a few seconds quicker when round past the 0 mark.

So, the Niche seems to be doing its job of making coarser grinds, and the brew times reflect that, but other than the Honduran coffee from Coffee Compass, the results are coming out consistently very bitter.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi

what is your pouring regime for making v60?

Example this is the one i use

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/hario-v60-recipe-for-1-mug-200g-lightmedium-filter-roasts/

When you are talking brew time is this to dry bed ?

Is the 250 the water you are adding or the end brew weight you are achieving ?

2 mins is very quick for a v60 of that amount. Bitterness it not always a function of over extraction and therefor needing to coarsen the grind.

I use a 13.5 > 225 g recipe and I aim for 3 minute as an example ( using a niche )

Lastly when are you drinking the coffee , straight away or letting it cool a little ?

Re the Jampit it may be partly due to the roast an origin of the bean , I am presuming it's not the Mahogany roast level.

The niche is certainly comparable in brewing with good hand grinders like the MBK etc so it's about fixing a process and a coffee that fits your requirements. @MWJB for other help


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

biggow said:


> I'd love some guidance on where I may be going wrong.
> 
> I've tested 3 different coffees with the Niche and V60 combo, and am struggling to get good results.
> 
> ...


Can you tell us how you are pouring the brew water? E.g. bloom how much & for how long, then how much you are adding at each pour & how long that is taking.

I would expect the darker roasts to be bitter.

Really, a single grind setting, or just a narrow range should be all you need to brew all these in a V60. From 40, right round to a full rotation at "0" will likely be too fine to too coarse. A good setting will likely be between these settings, maybe start around the calibration mark & the right edge of the hinge.

Which V60 are you using? For the smaller 01 you can pour with more turbulence in spirals, for the 02 you might be better blooming & then pouring just down the middle. I'd bloom with 33g, then add 33g every 20s until you hit 233g total. Focus on keeping the pour rate & time consistent, then adjust grind.

The water must fall straight down from the kettle spout.

Total brew time might be around 2:50 for an 01, or 2:30 for an 02, but this will vary with different coffees, 2/3 of your brews could be +/-15s of this. Brew time must be an average across a few different coffees, don't change anything because one coffee brews faster/slower.


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hi
> 
> what is your pouring regime for making v60?
> 
> ...


I'm basically using the Rao method. So 15g in the V60, add about 30-45g of water, stir and then start the clock. Wait 30 seconds, and I'll then keep adding water, in a circular motion, until I get to about 250g, and then give that a stir. Once it's all extracted I'll give it a stir the result a stir before pouring into a cup.

I haven't weighed how much coffee I end up with, and I have been tasting it immediately. Do you think those 2 things will make much of a difference then?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Again it's coffee dependent . Hot coffee , can mask flavours and for me take away sweetness and acidity. I used to perceive this as bitterness or flatness in a cup.

Mwjb's advice is sound. Have a look at that.

If you dont want to wait but taste for evaluation poor just a little , i mean less than a mouthful into a biggish cup and leave for 30 seconds to cool.

Lastly darker roasts will be bitterer....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

biggow said:


> I'm basically using the Rao method. So 15g in the V60, add about 30-45g of water, stir and then start the clock. Wait 30 seconds, and I'll then keep adding water, in a circular motion, until I get to about 250g, and then give that a stir. Once it's all extracted I'll give it a stir the result a stir before pouring into a cup.
> 
> I haven't weighed how much coffee I end up with, and I have been tasting it immediately. Do you think those 2 things will make much of a difference then?


Scott Rao's recipe is for a bigger brew, he doesn't cite a recipe for 15:250g.

No need to weigh the coffee you end up with, though it's useful to know. But, if you just leave the brewer for 40s after dry bed, you will get what you get and it will be consistent based on the amount you pour & grind setting.


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks all.

I've also been boiling the water before pouring into the V60, so it is as hot as possible.

So would it be fair to say that once brewed, if I leave it for a minute, and the result is still bitter, then that's just the coffee itself?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

biggow said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I've also been boiling the water before pouring into the V60, so it is as hot as possible.
> 
> So would it be fair to say that once brewed, if I leave it for a minute, and the result is still bitter, then that's just the coffee itself?


Not necessarily. There are a lot of reasons why coffee might be bitter, it would seem odd that all the coffees you are trying are particularly bitter.

Hot water won't be making them bitter. Most likely it is pouring too aggressively with too fine a grind, or pouring much too aggressively with the right grind.


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

It's not all the coffees. The natural Honduran tasted fabulous at 33 on the Niche, using all the same brewing techniques I used for the other 2. The other 2, were very far from it.

In terms of how aggressively I'm pouring, I 'think' I've pretty much been following the kind of flow rate shown in Scott Rao's video.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

biggow said:


> It's not all the coffees. The natural Honduran tasted fabulous at 33 on the Niche, using all the same brewing techniques I used for the other 2. The other 2, were very far from it.
> 
> In terms of how aggressively I'm pouring, I 'think' I've pretty much been following the kind of flow rate shown in Scott Rao's video.


I posted the below a couple of weeks ago, think it might be helpful!

"Someone in this thread suggested setting the dial to 50, putting a second marker at 0, and then using the second marker to extend the numbers (so 1 becomes 51, 2 becomes 52, etc).

With this system I set V60 grind around 70.

Hope that makes sense "

I think some people are grinding too fine for V60 with the Niche (probably due to the mark up on the dial) it's excellent that you've had tasty brews at tighter grinds but I'm positive if you set your grind around 65/70 you'll have a much better grind size for the majority of brews


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

Jon_Foster said:


> I posted the below a couple of weeks ago, think it might be helpful!
> 
> "Someone in this thread suggested setting the dial to 50, putting a second marker at 0, and then using the second marker to extend the numbers (so 1 becomes 51, 2 becomes 52, etc).
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Jon. I had actually read that post, but have to be honest and say that I couldn't entirely get my head around it.

If I understand correctly then, with this system the new '70' would actually be at the 20 marker on the Niche, so you've gone all the way round past zero and onto 20, which is what's now being referred to as 70. Is that right?


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

biggow said:


> Thanks for that Jon. I had actually read that post, but have to be honest and say that I couldn't entirely get my head around it.
> 
> If I understand correctly then, with this system the new '70' would actually be at the 20 marker on the Niche, so you've gone all the way round past zero and onto 20, which is what's now being referred to as 70. Is that right?


No probs man, I found it a bit tricky at first too









So no, it's not going all the way around and back to 20. I'll try and simplify it a bit more.

1: Set the grinder to 50.

2: With grinder set to 50 put A SECOND mark at 0 (I just used a blob of tippex).

3: You should now have 2 markers; the original marker at 50 and a second (tippex) marker at 0.

4: now set the second (tippex) marker to 20 (for reference the original marker will be around the back of the dial around where the allen key socket is).

Hope this isn't even more confusing


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

biggow said:


> It's not all the coffees. The natural Honduran tasted fabulous at 33 on the Niche, using all the same brewing techniques I used for the other 2. The other 2, were very far from it.
> 
> In terms of how aggressively I'm pouring, I 'think' I've pretty much been following the kind of flow rate shown in Scott Rao's video.


Again, you'll likely need to pour slower & less aggressively for smaller brews.

I think you just got lucky at 33. V60 is very repeatable, you shouldn't need luck beyond getting a particularly well roasted batch of beans


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Jon_Foster said:


> No probs man, I found it a bit tricky at first too
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably the most easy to understand explanation of this second marker malarky I've read so far


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

Thanks Jon. I do get it now.

Having said that, when I tried going past the 50 mark last night, once at the red calibration marker, and once back round at zero, I was still getting very bitter coffee. So I don't think this method will help in this particular instance.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

biggow said:


> Thanks Jon. I do get it now.
> 
> Having said that, when I tried going past the 50 mark last night, once at the red calibration marker, and once back round at zero, I was still getting very bitter coffee. So I don't think this method will help in this particular instance.


Ah that's a shame. Hope you get to the bottom of the issue. Whatever it turns out to be I'd still recommened setting your grind around that area for V60 though


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## Wilmars (Apr 2, 2019)

I tried @Jon_Foster @Mrboots2u & @MWJB advice this morning. Amazing! I've clearly been grinding too fine on my Niche as well as pouring for too long and getting, though enjoyable, a slightly bitter cup which would improve the cooler it got. I've been using Raves filter blend & this time the fruit & acidity we're bursting through. Really great stuff thanks guys!


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Just to make sure: has everybody calibrated their Niche? Think they're way off zero when they ship these days.

Bitter taste may also be water quality or temp related, how hot do you pour and what water do you use? (maybe off topic in here, sorry!)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hasi said:


> Just to make sure: has everybody calibrated their Niche? Think they're way off zero when they ship these days.
> 
> Bitter taste may also be water quality or temp related, how hot do you pour and what water do you use? (maybe off topic in here, sorry!)


Water quality can surpress acidity, but it's unlikely to make a brew seriously bitter. Biggow said they were pouring right off boil, which is fine.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Brewista at 96 using R.O. and still using ^ your V60 recipe inbetween 50/60 Mark. I thought using bottled water was good it's just seems flat.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jony said:


> Brewista at 96 using R.O. and still using ^ your V60 recipe inbetween 50/60 Mark. I thought using bottled water was good it's just seems flat.


Flat with the RO water?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Water quality can surpress acidity, but it's unlikely to make a brew seriously bitter. Biggow said they were pouring right off boil, which is fine.


Maybe unlikely, but tap water impurities may very well lead to a bitter taste (for instance Cu and Mg sulfates). Not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just something to look out for and cross check through use of (the right) bottled water









edit: quickly looked it up, north-eastern England as well as the area of Nottingham feature gypsum karst deposits. That kind of formation potentially makes for raised concentrations of aforementioned compounds.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Flat with the RO water?


No flat using bottled, R.O is so much better.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jony said:


> No flat using bottled, R.O is so much better.


Sure, I prefer much softer water for drip than for espresso.


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

Just for info. I've been using distilled water with Third Wave Water powder added.

I tried again last night, although didn't have much time, so only had 1 quick try. I set the Niche at the 12 o'clock point, so in the middle of the hinge, set the kettle at 95 degrees, poured as slowly as possible and left the cup a couple of minutes before I drank it, and it was still very bitter.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

biggow said:


> Just for info. I've been using distilled water with Third Wave Water powder added.
> 
> I tried again last night, although didn't have much time, so only had 1 quick try. I set the Niche at the 12 o'clock point, so in the middle of the hinge, set the kettle at 95 degrees, poured as slowly as possible and left the cup a couple of minutes before I drank it, and it was still very bitter. ��


You're not really giving us any info, "poured as slowly as possible" is a bit vague & probably undesirable. The more time spent pouring, the more agitation there is. Maybe make a video of your brew method & post it in the brewed forum, as there's not much practical input we can offer based on this.


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## biggow (Apr 8, 2019)

MWJB said:


> You're not really giving us any info, "poured as slowly as possible" is a bit vague & probably undesirable. The more time spent pouring, the more agitation there is. Maybe make a video of your brew method & post it in the brewed forum, as there's not much practical input we can offer based on this.


With regards to pouring slowly, I was reacting to your comment that part of the issue could be that I was 'pouring too aggressively', which I took to mean the same as pouring too fast. I'd also broken down the steps I was going through in a previous post, which was:

- Grind 15g of coffee (various grinds between 30 and back round to zero)

- Add the coffee to the V60

- Add 30-45g of water, straight from the boil

- Stir what's there and leave to steep for 30 seconds

- Add water up to 250g

- Stir a couple of times

- Once fully drained, stir the pot and then pour into a cup

That was my initial routine, to which I then added pouring slowly, and waiting a couple of minutes before tasting the final result.

I'll try and get a video over the weekend.

I suspect that the issue is one of the following things, either:

- I'm being a plonker and doing something obvious wrong (which should show up in a video)

- I'm actually misinterpreting what I'm tasting

- The beans are just not to my taste

The second point is an interesting one. I was at Laynes coffee in Leeds last Saturday, with my better half, and she thought the espresso tasted bitter, whereas I thought it tasted sour (either way it wasn't great). After much debate we agreed it was probably sour, but it's interesting how 2 people's initial reaction could be so different, which makes me therefore suspect I'm potentially misinterpreting what I'm tasting.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Only cleaned this twice second time this morning. Bought in November. It's shocking!!


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Jony said:


> Only cleaned this twice second time this morning. Bought in November. It's shocking!!


Hiw can you survive with so much wastage!


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Is there any point in cleaning it regularly?

If it has virtually zero retention and the small amount that fills in nooks and crannies never exchanges, what's the point? I could understand if the oils in a coffee coated the burrs and they needed a thorough cleaning but when I've seen videos or comments on this aspect, people seem to only be using the pastry brush, which will do nothing except dislodge the coffee that would otherwise never make it into a brew.

I understand the need for regular cleaning of machines and portafilters ( I did mine today ) but the lack of a need to do this with the Niche should be a great selling point shouldn't it?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I guess the less coffee retained the less regular cleaning required, up to a point.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Today I used Niche Zero in almost commercial environment. We had a small event in the University where I work and I had to prepare 100-150 coffee drinks with Niche and Silvia/Gaggia C. Niche Zero did it great and didn't let me down for a single shot. I used 3 type of beans so needed to adjust a little when switching them. Students and staff really enjoyed free fresh coffee too.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

L&R said:


> Today I used Niche Zero in almost commercial environment. We had a small event in the University where I work and I had to prepare 100-150 coffee drinks with Niche and Silvia/Gaggia C. Niche Zero did it great and didn't let me down for a single shot. I used 3 type of beans so needed to adjust a little when switching them. Students and staff really enjoyed free fresh coffee too.


Dont end you using that combo of machines.

Well done though !!!!


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

One for steaming and other for brewing. I can't move bigger machines from home


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## kiisupai (Oct 4, 2018)

Just something I spotted in a recent James Hoffman video:


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It gets everywhere doesn't it


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## lucas (Nov 14, 2018)

Today i was cleaning my Niche and noticed that the bolt that holds the inner burr was loose. I went and tighten it as hard as i could but i can still move the sweeper arm by hand with little resistance is that normal?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

@DavecUK


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lucas said:


> Today i was cleaning my Niche and noticed that the bolt that holds the inner burr was loose. I went and tighten it as hard as i could but i can still move the sweeper arm by hand with little resistance is that normal?


 No that is not normal. Firstly you never need to tighten it as hard as you can, refer to my videos about that. I only nip it up quite gently, in fact you almost don't have to hold anything, the motor resistance alone is almost enough to tighten against.

Personally I would not have simply tightened it without removing it and checking the bolt on it's own goes smoothly into the top spindle thread and the top collar the bolt holds down had it's key properly located in the keyway. If the keyway isn't located correctly and the top collar stands proud of the spindle, then the sweep arms would move. Tightening it down with as much force as you can muster, simply causes the fibre hold down collar to flex or warp, which might hold the sweeper arms a bit better but ultimately they would easily slip.

I suspect this is what has happened.


----------



## lucas (Nov 14, 2018)

Dave when I say I tighnent it as hard as I could I meant I've put some pressure to it but I clearly didn't overdone it.

Looking at your video all i can say is that my sweeper arm is different from yours it really doesn't have that niple on top that fits inside the burr it relys on friction alone.

I've taken it apart several times and always end up with the same result, maybe I should contact niche costumer support and see what they say about it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lucas said:


> Dave when I say I tighnent it as hard as I could I meant I've put some pressure to it but I clearly didn't overdone it.
> 
> Looking at your video all i can say is that my sweeper arm is different from yours it really doesn't have that niple on top that fits inside the burr it relys on friction alone.
> 
> I've taken it apart several times and always end up with the same result, maybe I should contact niche costumer support and see what they say about it.


 That was a prototype, the sweeper arm no longer has the nipple on it, it wasn't needed and is better not to have it for a few reasons. I was trying to get you to concentrate on the top nut and hold down system and you spectacularly failed to mention it, rather focussing on something not relevant? *Try and focus on the bit I mentioned.* Sorry if I misinterpreted "tightened it as hard as I could"...but it's an easy mistake for me to make.

You can even post some photos or video if you want, as I said before I think the problem must be with the hold down system at the top, not tightening down all the way for some reason.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I've always stirred my niche grounds in the basket after emptying from the cup.

Though today I stirred in the cup first before dumping in to basket - seems an easier workflow as less mess.

Anyone else do it this way? It's too early to see if the pours are better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> I've always stirred my niche grounds in the basket after emptying from the cup.
> 
> Though today I stirred in the cup first before dumping in to basket - seems an easier workflow as less mess.
> 
> ...


 If I remember to stir, I always stir it in the grind cup.....


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## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

I just cleaned out my Niche, also 0.7g came out.

My whole setup is sparkling now.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I got 0.4 to 0.68 during testing...8- 10 tests over a few weeks with different coffees.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> I've always stirred my niche grounds in the basket after emptying from the cup.
> 
> Though today I stirred in the cup first before dumping in to basket - seems an easier workflow as less mess.
> 
> ...


Always do just that Kenny find it works a treat and much easier than stirring in the basket

Mr ***


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Nice one boys - does seem more intuitive. Not sure why I was doing it in the basket

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Closehauling (May 6, 2019)

kennyboy993 said:


> I've always stirred my niche grounds in the basket after emptying from the cup.


 Why mix the fines in... surely, if possible, they should be avoided or removed?

Retaining inconsistent grinds by definition will produce a mix of over and under extracted grains.

Is there ANY doserless grinder which will deliver uniform grains, is the Zero average in this respect,


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Closehauling said:


> Why mix the fines in... surely, if possible, they should be avoided or removed?
> 
> Retaining inconsistent grinds by definition will produce a mix of over and under extracted grains.
> 
> Is there ANY doserless grinder which will deliver uniform grains, is the Zero average in this respect,


 Fines are inevitable when grinding coffee, All percolation brewed coffee (espresso & drip) is made with fines. No grinders produce a single size of particles, there are just varying degrees of how large a spread there is. Fines in espresso are around 50um diameter and there is no practical way to remove them even if this was a good idea (it's not).

You can remove smaller particles from steeped coffee for a clean cup (there is no flow, so very fine particles aren't needed to regulate that flow), but these will usually be large enough at the bigger end to be part of the normal grind & not outlying fine particles.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Closehauling said:


> Why mix the fines in... surely, if possible, they should be avoided or removed?
> 
> Retaining inconsistent grinds by definition will produce a mix of over and under extracted grains.
> 
> Is there ANY doserless grinder which will deliver uniform grains, is the Zero average in this respect,


 Nope.. no grinder deliveries uniform grains, in part down to the random way in which roasted coffee is fractured , cut, squashed by whatever method and or machine you use.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Nice one boys - does seem more intuitive. Not sure why I was doing it in the basket
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 hmmm I was bit hasty on this...... I've found stirring in the cup and then transferring to basket has consistently introduced multiple mouse tails.....

I'm putting this down to the clumping in the basket as it moves from cup - when stirring in the cup I'd just transfer and then do a single tap - you can see the clumps still there.

Not wanting to stir in both cup and then basket I've gone back to basket only - a bit more fiddly though single mouse tail is back.....


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

You not using the Naked PF.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Nice one boys - does seem more intuitive. Not sure why I was doing it in the basket
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Oops sorry replied to wrong post, don't know how to delete!


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> hmmm I was bit hasty on this...... I've found stirring in the cup and then transferring to basket has consistently introduced multiple mouse tails.....
> 
> I'm putting this down to the clumping in the basket as it moves from cup - when stirring in the cup I'd just transfer and then do a single tap - you can see the clumps still there.
> 
> Not wanting to stir in both cup and then basket I've gone back to basket only - a bit more fiddly though single mouse tail is back.....


 This is the exact journey I had Kenny, started out mixing in the pf, then moved on to mixing in the grind cup which felt more efficient but sometimes gave me an uneven pour...

Took me a while to find the best routine but now I mix in cup with a chopstick, transfer to pf, then (and this is what made the difference for me) I tap each side of the pf to level the grinds. (I'd seen it in vids but hadn't realised how important it was).

I also have a technique to transfer the grinds from cup to pf, I'll make a quick vid over the weekend if I can but basically I have the cup upright with the pf upside down on top, then I flip just over 180 degrees so the top of the cup points to eleven o clock, 2 sharp taps down, rotate cup clockwise so it points to 1 o clock, 2 sharp taps down again and finally level the pf and 2 sharp taps down. This gives the grinds a good distribution before you start tapping around the pf.

This sounds like a massive mission but in reality it takes about 5/10 seconds... But I'll deffo try and record it to make it a bit clearer﻿!!


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Nice one Jon - look forward to seeing the vid


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Nice one Jon - look forward to seeing the vid


 Hey @kennyboy993 Quick vid here, had to do it on my own so it's pretty basic! And please excuse my boy doing train announcements in the background!


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Great thanks Jon gonna try it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Great thanks Jon gonna try it
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 No probs man, forgot to mention I use a leveling device (knock off OCD) before tamping as well


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

I want to ask people, exactlly how long is the power cord, mine just arrived today and I only am able to pull out 40cm ish of cord. Is that the length of the cord or am I being an idiot


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Lift off wooden coaster grind cup sits on, undo Allen bolt, look inside...all will be revealed.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Lift off wooden coaster grind cup sits on, undo Allen bolt, look inside...all will be revealed.


 Sorted, thanks, conclusions, I was an idiot, btw, I went for a black one, after a coin flip ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TheHToad said:


> Sorted, thanks, conclusions, I was an idiot, btw, I went for a black one, after a coin flip ?


 I think Black looks great, as does White


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Cleaned the niche out today. Gathered near enough all the grinds I could out of it. It's probably had just over 2kg through it since I last cleaned it and total grinds collected was .6grams


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

That feel when you successfully dialled in on a brand new grinder on the second try.

Just wondering what everyone's setting for different grinds, as a reference

I got my espresso at 12, haven't tried any other brew methods yet


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TheHToad said:


> That feel when you successfully dialled in on a brand new grinder on the second try.
> 
> Just wondering what everyone's setting for different grinds, as a reference
> 
> I got my espresso at 12, haven't tried any other brew methods yet


 Will be dependent on dose, coffee , roast and origin and calibration .most people I suspect sit somewhere between 10-20.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

I used to sit in the 10-20 range until I got the La Pav, now I've dropped sub 10.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

I assume it's not wise to go beyond the 0 or the 50 mark as well?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TheHToad said:


> I assume it's not wise to go beyond the 0 or the 50 mark as well?


 For drip coffee you may need to go beyond 50, no problem in doing so for coarser grinds (I'm often between the microswitch & calibration mark). One full turn out should be coarse as you should ever need.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonnycooper29 said:


> I used to sit in the 10-20 range until I got the La Pav, now I've dropped sub 10.


 I sit below 10 , primarily because i am doing loooong pre infusions at mo.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I sit below 10 , primarily because i am doing loooong pre infusions at mo.


Sub 10 is where it's at for super niche long PI flavour!

Sub 5 for some decaf!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I am on 8 right now.


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## Les996 (Jan 8, 2019)

lol I tend to be grinding at 14, haven't tried lower...will have a go and see what I get ?


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> I sit below 10 , primarily because i am doing loooong pre infusions at mo.


 What's your pre-infusion time, I'm using the DTP and I think its default at 10 seconds, judging from the sound of the pump


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TheHToad said:


> What's your pre-infusion time, I'm using the DTP and I think its default at 10 seconds, judging from the sound of the pump


 20 to 30 seconds at low flow

Bianca pre infusion works differently to a dtp


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Jony said:


> I am on 8 right now.


 me2


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

Trying to read mark's part of the niche independent review, but can't seem to figure out what the niche setting is to get an 2+6 Feldgrind equivalent for v60. Anyone know? I gather the 1full rotation back to 0 is like the max most people would set for a cafetiere, from what he said


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I am down on my Feld 2 1.8 used to be 12 I ahve now tightened it up.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

I find the draw time on v60 too long if i use anything less than like a 2.2, even with 2.6, I'm just getting a 3.30 min draw


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

TheHToad said:


> I find the draw time on v60 too long if i use anything less than like a 2.2, even with 2.6, I'm just getting a 3.30 min draw


 Hey @TheHToadIf you look at page 83 of this thread there's info about where to set Niche for V60


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I set a page up for coffee and settings ..no one was using it tho much


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Jon_Foster said:


> Hey @TheHToadIf you look at page 83 of this thread there's info about where to set Niche for V60


What post # would that be Jon?


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

Found the information, most of the discussion about v60 is at page 81/82 of this post

I used the secondary marking idea and did a v60 at niche 70 setting, which gave me a perfect 2.30 draw time, although the grinds of that is coarser to the 2+6 feld2 setting. I find 50-55 seems to give the closes to the 2+6 setting of Feld2, I'll have to test the brew of that tomorrow though


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TheHToad said:


> Found the information, most of the discussion about v60 is at page 81/82 of this post
> 
> I used the secondary marking idea and did a v60 at niche 70 setting, which gave me a perfect 2.30 draw time, although the grinds of that is coarser to the 2+6 feld2 setting. I find 50-55 seems to give the closes to the 2+6 setting of Feld2, I'll have to test the brew of that tomorrow though


 Sounds like you are in the right region, but there's nothing perfect about 2:30 brew time. You can only use brew time as a guide if you state brew size & pour regime, even then, brew time will drift by a larger margin than extraction. If you adjust grind to maintain a given brew time, your brews will be all over the place. Nail down a consistent pour rate.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Sounds like you are in the right region, but there's nothing perfect about 2:30 brew time. You can only use brew time as a guide if you state brew size & pour regime, even then, brew time will drift by a larger margin than extraction﻿. If﻿ you ﻿adjust grind to maintain a given brew time, your brews will be all over the place. Nail down a consistent pour rate.


 Yea, my typical brew is 20g:300ml, with the 4:6 method, 60ml pulse pours, 30seconds first pour for bloom, and then 60ml whenever the bed surface is dry. I'm probably going to aim for 3.15 - 3.30 draw time, I normally prefer my brews a bit stronger anyway, today's cup is much sweater, but a bit more acidic as well, so that's a trade off


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Has anyone gone to town on cafetière settings yet?

For whatever reason I had it noted down as being one full turn, but I tried that yesterday and it was a bit weak. Tried setting 50 today which was better, but appeared quite fine to be honest. Now I'm wondering what range of settings might be 'right'.

I've not really done much cafetière with the Niche before.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

richwade80 said:


> Has anyone gone to town on cafetière settings yet?
> 
> For whatever reason I had it noted down as being one full turn, but I tried that yesterday and it was a bit weak. Tried setting 50 today which was better, but appeared quite fine to be honest. Now I'm wondering what range of settings might be 'right'.
> 
> I've not really done much cafetière with the Niche before.


 50 might be OK for a larger (8 cup) glass pot & 40min+ steep, or longer in a steel pot.

For smaller, single wall glass pots, I'd be looking to go finer, maybe 30 range & 10-20min.

Use Hoffman's no plunge method & carefully pour off the surface layer, before decanting into cups. Leave the siltiest last drops in the press.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

MWJB said:


> 50 might be OK for a larger (8 cup) glass pot & 40min+ steep, or longer in a steel pot.
> For smaller, single wall glass pots, I'd be looking to go finer, maybe 30 range & 10-20min.
> Use Hoffman's no plunge method & carefully pour off the surface layer, before decanting into cups. Leave the siltiest last drops in the press.


No plunge?! One step at a time for me I think. Interested to try something in the 30s. It felt like that was what it needed, but also seemed too fine...

It's a single glass wall job

Cheers, will post the results.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

richwade80 said:


> No plunge?! One step at a time for me I think. Interested to try something in the 30s. It felt like that was what it needed, but also seemed too fine...
> 
> It's a single glass wall job
> 
> Cheers, will post the results.


 Plunging kicks up silt into the brew, you can't grind coarse enough to combat this and have a decently extracted press. If you do plunge, don't press all the way down, stop well short of the bed.

You can't go too fine in terms of extraction, the silt is the biggest issue in FP brewing.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

MWJB said:


> 50 might be OK for a larger (8 cup) glass pot & 40min+ steep, or longer in a steel pot.
> 
> For smaller, single wall glass pots, I'd﻿ be looking to ﻿go finer, maybe﻿﻿ 30﻿ range﻿﻿﻿ & 10-20min.
> 
> Use Hoffman's no plunge method & carefully﻿ pour off the surface ﻿layer, before decanting﻿﻿﻿ into cups. Leave the siltiest last drops in the press.


 I find 30 to be already mocha pot or areopress range, and I've been wondering since reading the niche review, what's the idea behind a 40 min steep? I normally don't go beyond a 6 min, and that is with a 5+0 Feld2 grind, which I think will be a full rotation + 10/20 maybe?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TheHToad said:


> I find 30 to be already mocha pot or areopress range, and I've been wondering since reading the niche review, what's the idea behind a 40 min steep? I normally don't go beyond a 6 min, and that is with a 5+0 Feld2 grind, which I think will be a full rotation + 10/20 maybe?


 The idea is to extract the coffee so it's balanced & sweet, not overly acidic. 5+0 with a Feld sounds way too coarse to extract normally.

It's also just about cool enough to drink at this time (for a big brew in a glass press). I've never had a nice French press in 5 min steep, though I appreciate that some folk have a different expectation & may like very bright, very hot coffee. I expect my coffee to taste like it would however I brew it, just stronger or weaker, more/less silt depending on brewer.

Immersion grind has always been finer than drip, not coarser. This 5 min, coarse steep with declining temperature seems a fairly modern thing & once again is losing favour.


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## TheHToad (Sep 1, 2018)

MWJB said:


> The idea is to extract the coffee so it's balanced & sweet, not overly acidic. 5+0 with a Feld sounds way too coarse to extract normally.
> 
> It's also just﻿ about cool enough to drink﻿ at ﻿this time﻿ (for a big brew﻿ in a glass﻿ press). I've never had a nice French press in 5 min steep, though I appreciate that some folk have a different﻿ expectation & may like﻿﻿ very bright, very hot coffee. I expect my﻿ coffee to taste ﻿like it would﻿ however I brew it, just stronger or weaker, more/less silt depending on brewer.
> 
> Immersion grind has always﻿ been﻿﻿﻿ finer than drip, not coarser. This 5 ﻿min, coarse﻿ ﻿steep﻿ with declining﻿ temperature﻿﻿﻿ seems﻿ a fairly modern﻿ thing﻿﻿﻿﻿ & once again is losing favour.


 I never quite wrap my head around on how that would not end up overextracting the coffee, especially if it is a even finer grind.

So would you recommend 10 mins for a 3cup glass french press,

I normally use 20g:260ml ratio


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TheHToad said:


> I never quite wrap my head around on how that would not end up overextracting the coffee, especially if it is a even finer grind.
> 
> So would you recommend 10 mins for a 3cup glass french press,
> 
> I normally use 20g:260ml ratio


 You can't over-extract coffee at normal, fine grinds in French press, with declining temp. You can only extract it nominally, or varying degrees of under (which if you like it, that's fine too). The extraction is limited by temp drop & the fact the water is never replaced & there is no mechanism for the extraction to get past a certain point (which you might reach by actively maintaining heat, or refreshing the brew water). The idea that is mooted about grind size being relative to time is not quite correct, nor that linear for steeped coffee.

The fact you are brewing at a high ratio suggests you are using a lot of coffee to bolster the strength, maybe because your extraction is low. Again, if this is how you like it, carry on but 60-70g/L should be plenty.

My preferred approach for a 3 cup glass French press is about 55g/L (16.5:300g) for 20min (still 70c by this point) or until approaching drinking temp (for me about 55C). Decant into pre-warmed cups. Grind about the same as for moka/Aeropress. With finer, espresso grind, water in 1st & 10min. (trickier to avoid silt the finer you go). I go bit stronger on the ratio (60-65g/L) with an insulated press because they extract further & can take a coarser grind (still around drip) due to better heat retention.

Obviously if you want decent strength & faster brews, you need to updose, but I'd rather use a faster brew method & get the flavour I prefer.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I'm on 25 for aeropress - I experimented higher and lower though seems to sit well here


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

We need a brewing forum...

I thought the 40min steep was a typo...


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

richwade80 said:


> We need a brewing forum...
> 
> I thought the 40min steep was a typo...


 https://coffeeforums.co.uk/forum/40-brewed-coffee/ like this one?


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Jon_Foster said:


> I've made a couple more spros (I'm quite wired right now) & discovered that giving the pf a sharp little downward tap before using the distribution tool seems to have stopped the "donutting".
> 
> I've still got a bit more experimenting to do but I am absolutely loving this grinder.
> 
> Big thanks to @DavecUK & @Nichecoffe for all your advice & hard work.


 Jon, I see you also have a Knock grinder... how do they compare for brew results in the cup, regarding flavor & mouthfeel?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Slowpress said:


> Jon, I see you also have a Knock grinder... how do they compare for brew results in the cup, regarding flavor & mouthfeel?


 Brew results are comparable IMHO, mouthfeel is too vague a concept to be asked to clarify , especially for brewed coffee ( filters etc making a difference , brewing method etc )


----------



## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Not sure if this has been mentioned (probably, but just in case...)

It's worth checking your calibration straight out of the box. Fortunately it's so easy to do it's not a problem

Mine was off by a fair bit. Initially dialled in at 23 for espresso. I calibrated and it was about 8 clicks off. So back down to 15 now which seems about right.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

Gavin said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned (probably, but just in case...)
> 
> It's worth checking your calibration straight out of the box. Fortunately it's so easy to do it's not a problem
> 
> Mine was off by a fair bit. Initially dialled in at 23 for espresso. I calibrated and it was about 8 clicks off. So back down to 15 now which seems about right.


 I checked mine but I'd been using for a while, think it wasn't far off. I guess it depends how tight you grip and turn it too.

I'm normally around 14-15 but I've been doing some shots at 13 with a longer pre-infusion with fantastic results.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Currently sat at 9. Long preinfusions for me at the moment. Working well for me and the current hasbean I'm using


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Nick1881 said:


> I checked mine but I'd been using for a while, think it wasn't far off. I guess it depends how tight you grip and turn it too.
> 
> I'm normally around 14-15 but I've been doing some shots at 13 with a longer pre-infusion with fantastic results.


 I went as finger right as much as I could without forcing it.

Maybe it's different with each one out of the box. Anyone get two? ?


----------



## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Planter said:


> Currently sat at 9. Long preinfusions for me at the moment. Working well for me and the current hasbean I'm using


 No preinfusion for me  (Gaggia Classic). What coffee is it? I've just started my Hasbean subscription. Would it be the same one?


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

> On 26/05/2019 at 19:40, DavecUK said:
> 
> I got 0.4 to 0.68 during testing...8- 10 tests over a few weeks with different coffees.


 After a muppetry incident (I put ground coffee in the hopper instead of beans) I gave it a couple of days then, following your excellent video, took it apart for a clean. I measured the retained coffee at 1.1g. I'm sure this was only because ground coffee found it's way into places it would not usually be present. Very easy to do, the engineering is impressive and everything fits with a precision feel. I'm loving it! My 65e is relegated to doorstop most of the time.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob666 said:


> My 65e is relegated to doorstop most of the time.


 As it should be  , My Ceado E92 is also no longer in use.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Oh just a thought, a long time ago I said that the Nich in the hands of the average coffee drinking family would probably pay for itself vs another grinder in under 10 years or even much less. This was because you no longer have to purge 3-5g every shot. in fact vs a grinder costing 300, it becomes a cost neutral difference in about 5 years or less.

I have now been using the US version Niche for 15 months every day for about 6-10 doubles. I can confidently say each bag of coffee I open lasts longer, I waste less, dialling in is very fast (another source of wasted coffee). Have other people who have had the Niche for some time found that their coffee seems to last longer and much less is wasted?


----------



## Les996 (Jan 8, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Oh just a thought, a long time ago I said that the Nich in the hands of the average coffee drinking family would probably pay for itself vs another grinder in under 10 years or even much less. This was because you no longer have to purge 3-5g every shot. in fact vs a grinder costing 300, it becomes a cost neutral difference in about 5 years or less.
> 
> I have now been using the US version Niche for 15 months every day for about 6-10 doubles. I can confidently say each bag of coffee I open lasts longer, I waste less, dialling in is very fast (another source of wasted coffee). Have other people who have had the Niche for some time found that their coffee seems to last longer and much less is wasted?


 Must admit, zero wastage for me. I have just come to the end of a bag and logged 54 shots (18.2-18.5). Now got 4 different blends to start and won't be wasting coffee on changeover ?


----------



## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Thanks to those who mentioned the secondary marking idea. First thing I did today on arrival ?


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## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

Wait, secondary marking? Where did you get the little tiny arrow sticker? Thanks


----------



## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Nick1881 said:


> Wait, secondary marking? Where did you get the little tiny arrow sticker? Thanks


 It's mentioned a few times in the thread, put a marker 180 degrees/opposite from the factory one. It means when you are dialled in to a position where the factory marker would be outside of the indicative markings, you still have a reference point.

The tiny sticker came from my label printer ?


----------



## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Oh just a thought, a long time ago I said that the Nich in the hands of the average coffee drinking family would probably pay for itself vs another grinder in under 10 years or even much less. This was because you no longer have to purge 3-5g every shot. in fact vs a grinder costing 300, it becomes a cost neutral difference in about 5 years or less.
> 
> I have now been using the US version Niche for 15 months every day for about 6-10 doubles. I can confidently say each bag of coffee I open lasts longer, I waste less, dialling in is very fast (another source of wasted coffee). Have other people who have had the Niche for some time found that their coffee seems to last longer and much less is wasted?


 I buy a lot more 200-250g bags than before (1kg), and experiment a lot more. In the past a 200g bag was just not an option. Now i keep a recipe book with each coffee label to a page and it's great to open a new bag, go back to the book and produce a really nice coffee, and then up or down by half a notch.

The thing that is bothering me a little is more bags, they could be reusable, but they get thrown away. ?

edit: i haven't cleaned it yet.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Nick1881 said:


> Wait, secondary marking? Where did you get the little tiny arrow sticker? Thanks


 Hey @Nick1881

1: Set﻿﻿ the grinder to 50.

2: With grinder set to 50 put A SECOND mark at 0 (I just used a blob of tippex).

﻿

3: You should now have 2 markers; the original marker at 50 and a second (tippex) marker at 0.

4: now set the second (tippex) marker ﻿to 20 (for reference the original marker will be around the back of the dial around where the allen key socket is﻿﻿)﻿﻿﻿.﻿﻿﻿﻿



Slowpress said:


> Jon, I see you also have a Knock grinder... how do they compare for brew results in the cup, regarding flavor & mouthfeel?


 I've not done side to side tests but tbh I can't really tell the difference. I only use my Knock when I'm away now, it's so easy to change the grind on the Niche that I use it for spro and pour over now.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

> On 26/05/2019 at 15:40, DavecUK said:
> 
> I got 0.4 to 0.68 during testing...8- 10 tests over a few weeks with different coffees.


 Do I need to go to this length for the frequent quick cleanings between new bean types? I don't want to take everything apart & recalibrate each & every week, but would like to simply brush & then vacuum out residual grinds (from previous beans). Any risk to vacuuming with burrs, etc., in place?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Frequent would be say 9 month.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Jony said:


> Frequent would be say 9 month.


 Yikes...9 months?!!! I'm a great believer in getting rid of old grinds more often than that, for super tasty espresso?... sure, a deep clean can wait much longer, but even the 0.1 to 0.2 gram retention is worth vacuuming out more often... as long as I'm not harming the innards by doing so, that is??


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I clean to avoid things getting a bit rancid, perhaps every month or two, but not every time I change beans?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

He anyone posted any photos of the inside of the niche showing the motor and gears, I am intrigued as to the quality of these components.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> I clean to avoid things getting a bit rancid, perhaps every month or two, but not every time I change beans?


 So you do the "big clean" then (dismantle burrs, etc)... not just the "vacuum quickie".? do you think a quick vacuum (without dismantling) from the top of the grinder would cause any harm?


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Slowpress said:


> So you do the "big clean" then (dismantle burrs, etc)... not just the "vacuum quickie".? do you think a quick vacuum (without dismantling) from the top of the grinder would cause any harm?


 My worry right now is that I don't want to risk losing my reference points (i.e., if I have to recalibrate because I've disturbed the bottom ring while trying to loosen the hopper part!)


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Slowpress said:


> My worry right now is that I don't want to risk losing my reference points (i.e., if I have to recalibrate because I've disturbed the bottom ring while trying to loosen the hopper part!)


 Heck, I just now went ahead & dismantled anyway... disregarding losing calibration!?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

It's a easy process, one of the simplest things to do. Will be fine.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

TheHToad said:


> Just wondering what everyone's setting for different grinds, as a reference


 If it hasn't already been said - with espresso it depends on the machine too as an E61 has a sort-of-pre-infusion and some other groupheads may not, plus a pressure profiling machine with pre-infusion/phased-pressure/longer-extraction times requires a finer grind.

Note your reference numbers for coffees because when you clean and re-calibrate, your references will remain relevant to each other but the actual numbers may differ depending on how consistent you get your new calibration each time.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> He anyone posted any photos of the inside of the niche showing the motor and gears, I am intrigued as to the quality of these components.


 No then?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> No then?


Probably not unless Dave did when revewing it.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> coffeechap said:
> 
> 
> > No then?
> ...


 Unfortunately not as it was all hush hush at that time, something about patents is how it was explained I believe


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Didn't DavecUK mention what motor was being used? There was something about it but I can't recall what.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> coffeechap said:
> 
> 
> > No then?
> ...


 I did actually include one on page 11 of my review....it was from a distance as it was confidential because it was the prototype (or one of them). The point to make here is what does "quality" mean? Seeing a photo of these components tells you nothing about quality, for that you need detailed schematics, spec sheets, lubricants, torque curves. This coupled with a good understanding of engineering and the forces acting at various points in the grinder, plus Martin has an understanding of planetary gearbox design that goes way beyond mine (or most peoples)....might give you a handle on "quality". Even then the real proof of the pudding is customer experiences in the field, specifically components life and faults. Making predictions for these is difficult and even then a shorter life than you think may not be a bad thing if the component is easy and cheap to replace.* I found the review and cut and pasted the photo from the review for you. *It's there in the shock stop rig to simulate a stone. Allowed for 100s or 1000s of shock stops to see if the gearbox would strip as happens in many other grinders. It was also used to make the motor draw maximum power against a load for long periods of time, to see if magic blue smoke came out.







/monthly_2019_06/image.png.fe40162dd000c7408b1d1e626d7dcdd4.png">

If it helps though the Motor and gearbox design is way better than a Sette or Vario....quite a bit larger too with more torque.

e.g. if I could make a moving part component of a larger product that would last at *least* the design life of the *HYPOTHETICAL *product (30 years), but to do this would require special lubricants, special materials, 2 yearly occasional lubrication (with a special lubricant). The part would not be difficult to access or replace. In fact replacement would be no more difficult than lubrication. The part would cost me £100. Or I have a choice of another part that will last 15 years and costs £20, this part does not require any maintenance or lubrication and is quieter running consuming less power and producing less heat than the first..Which is the quality part?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

So the motor is £20 then?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> So the motor is £20 then?


 Bit more expensive than the one in a versalab then


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> So the motor is £20 then?


 Do you actually understand what a hypothetical example is, or should I have used intergalactic credits (that's a rhetorical question by the way) ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I do indeed understand, but again just seeing what the components are and the cost, forgive me if this is unreasonable, if it is £20 then *HYPOTHETICALLY *It would be very cheap to replace which would be a good thing, it would also keep costs down for Niche and increase the margins on the product so would make sense.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Bit more expensive than the one in a versalab then


 I doubt that very much


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I doubt that very much


 Those were built from a mecano set


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Those were built from a mecano set


 What the niche ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> What the niche ?


 Nope the Legolab


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Nope the Legolab


 I much prefer the grind consistency from the versalab but let's not get the haters saying " but it costs 4 times the price of the niche"


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Are the components kept the same since the assembly was moved out to China?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I much prefer the grind consistency from the versalab but let's not get the haters saying " but it costs 4 times the price of the niche"


 Can't actually find a price for the updated Versalab at mo.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

> I'm impressed that such a small motor does all that, and it will last 30 years, is it a brushless electronic sort ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Where did you hear it had a 30 year life?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

wishful thinking, I suppose it would depend how often you use it. As its aimed at the domestic market I suppose a theoretical 15yrs would be great for the average user. Is it one of those digital motors like the dyson?


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Meanwhile, 99% of Niche owners (and no doubt owners of other grinders) just make coffee and the grey matter is directed towards other things in life.

(it is a user experience thread...)


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Off topic, but may I ask if there is any reason to unplug the Niche when not in use? I tend to leave things plugged in for convenience (unless an electrical storm threatens); the red power light stays on, of course, too.... anyway, if this is not advised, please advise, and I will try to change my bad habits!


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Slowpress said:


> Off topic, but may I ask if there is any reason to unplug the Niche when not in use? I tend to leave things plugged in for convenience (unless an electrical storm threatens); the red power light stays on, of course, too.... anyway, if this is not advised, please advise, and I will try to change my bad habits!


I have mine plugged in at all times


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

If you have an extension lead with a red neon light mains indicator and are happy to leave that plugged in....


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> If you have an extension lead with a red neon light mains indicator and are happy to leave that plugged in....


 Sorry, I'm not understanding what you mean ... I am 100% clueless about "leads" & "mains".

I plug directly from the Niche into the kitchen wall's electrical outlet (no extension cord being used). Is that A-OK?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

PPapa said:


> Are the components kept the same since the assembly was moved out to China?


Yes then?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Slowpress said:


> Off topic, but may I ask if there is any reason to unplug the Niche when not in use? I tend to leave things plugged in for convenience (unless an electrical storm threatens); the red power light stays on, of course, too.... anyway, if this is not advised, please advise, and I will try to change my bad habits!


Is fine to leave it plugged in

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PPapa said:


> Are the components kept the same since the assembly was moved out to China?


 You would need to ask Niche as I am not sure anyone on here could give you the answer. Beyond the normal "continuous improvement" all companies do, it would be illogical to put different components in If you have a winning formula that seems to be holding up well.


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## swai (Jul 26, 2016)

Hi all,

Quick question on the Niche. I am a week into using my new NZ and getting about .4g retention.

Will the retention be less after using for a longer period of time?

Thanks.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

swai said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Quick question on the Niche. I am a week into using my new NZ and getting about .4g retention.
> 
> ...


 Well 0.4g retention is at the lower limit of "total retention" as tested in my review. Are you sure you mean retention or do you mean "dose consistency"? Have a read of the review I did and you will see the terms defined.

If it's dose consistency:



Do your scales have a resolution of 0.1 or 0.01 g?


Are you banging the niche or trying to get all the coffee out each time you grind (that won't help)


Are you making sure the coffee has finished exiting the chute before you stop the grinder, because that won't help ?


Do you change grind settings between doses


Do you use 2 different coffees and alternate between them


Are you making 1 coffee per day and it varies from one day to another


What weight in and out


My answer is perhaps, it depends on what you're talking about, how you are using the grinder, and whether you are on your first few Kg....so little information for such a precise question. Even if it is 0.4g due to how you are using the grinder....I doubt you could taste the difference...well I know you couldn't because it's about 2.5 coffee beans..


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## swai (Jul 26, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Well 0.4g retention is at the lower limit of "total retention" as tested in my review. Are you sure you mean retention or do you mean "dose consistency"? Have a read of the review I did and you will see the terms defined.
> 
> If it's dose consistency:
> 
> ...


 At the moment I am only using the NZ with an aeropress.

I weigh 34g of beans in the metal cup on my Hario .1 scales and I get 33.6g out. I am still on my 2nd KG of coffee through the NZ. That's why I was wondering down the line after more coffee has gone through it should I be getting 33.9g out after dosing 34g in.

I was purging out the remaining grinds left in the chute etc and getting .3g out.

I should probably invest in a .01g scales now!

Very happy with the Niche after switching from a Mazzer SJ.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You might still see up to 0.4g difference from time to time, but a typical average of 0.2g difference might be more normal (0.01g scales would be better to determine this).

Scales that read to 0.1g don't always go up/down in 0.1g intervals, sometimes they jump by 0.2, or 0.3g.

Either way, compared to your dose size & the more forgiving nature of AP/immersion brews in this respect, it's not going to impact on your brews.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

0.4g is very little amount of retention compared to most if not all grinders in this price range.

You can updose if you want to get over 34g and scoop out the excess.

0.01g scales won't make you happier. Is 17.93g better than 18.07g? That's what I was wondering this morning...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

0.01g scales are quicker reacting for dosing to 0.1g (because of the overshoot/undershoot mentioned above). But if you want 1 set of scales to weigh both dose & brew, 0.1g scales are just fine.

You can't ascertain whether your dose is +/-0.4g with most 0.1g scales.

18.07 is 0.14g (less than a tenth of a bean?) more than 17.93g, no better, no worse, no tangible difference in terms of brew.


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## swai (Jul 26, 2016)

Thanks for the replies. I guess I was mainly wondering if I should be using my silicone muffin cup to purge out the remaining coffee or should I leave it and just continue to grind until all the voids are filled etc.

I guess I will try the no purge method after looking at Dave's videos on YouTube.

I understand .2g or even .3g is minimal so I'm still happy either way.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

swai said:


> Thanks for the replies. I guess I was mainly wondering if I should be using my silicone muffin cup to purge out the remaining coffee or should I leave it and just continue to grind until all the voids are filled etc.
> 
> I guess I will try the no purge method after looking at Dave's videos on YouTube.
> 
> I understand .2g or even .3g is minimal so I'm still happy either way.


 Muffin cup's a smart solution to a problem that doesn't exist ?

Definitely do not purge the Niche. There needs to be some grounds retained in the internals to give you a very small "retention" for subsequent uses. That's why if you do a deep clean by removing the burrs, you'll notice the "retention" is higher for the first couple of uses. Dave's reviews cover retention/grounds exchange and what to expect in some detail.


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## swai (Jul 26, 2016)

catpuccino said:


> Muffin cup's a smart solution to a problem that doesn't exist ?
> 
> Definitely do not purge the Niche. There needs to be some grounds retained in the internals to give you a very small "retention" for subsequent uses. That's why if you do a deep clean by removing the burrs, you'll notice the "retention" is higher for the first couple of uses. Dave's reviews cover retention/grounds exchange and what to expect in some detail.


 Understood! I guess I was just so use to purging on my old grinder and using a brush etc that I thought it would benefit the NZ.

I guess not! Will not purge from now on and just let it be.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Lilybell2 said:


> The two cup solution would probably be a good one for me. This morning, as my beans were being nicely ground, I realized I was holding the cup in my hand while a lovely mound of ground coffee was being created directly beneath the Niche's chute. I think my dog was laughing at me!


 I amazed myself in doing precisely the same thing!?‍♀?


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

It is early days yet, but at this point I am getting slightly better in-the-cup espresso results from my Knock grinder than I am with the Niche. That doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the Niche (and without a side-by-side comparison, I'd be none the wiser)... the Niche is a great grinder & super convenient. Perhaps I haven't yet found the sweet spot in my settings.... I may change my mind the more I play with the Niche... but so far I prefer the brew taste from my Knock grinder. I'll also be trying a different batch of bean later this week.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Slowpress said:


> It is early days yet, but at this point I am getting slightly better in-the-cup espresso results from my Knock grinder than I am with the Niche. That doesn't take away from my enjoyment of the Niche (and without a side-by-side comparison, I'd be none the wiser)... the Niche is a great grinder & super convenient. Perhaps I haven't yet found the sweet spot in my settings.... I may change my mind the more I play with the Niche... but so far I prefer the brew taste from my Knock grinder. I'll also be trying a different batch of bean later this week.


 You likely have them set differently, in fact I'm sure you have, because it may not even be possible to set them the same, just maybe 1 parameter being the same.

Of course, your preference is up to you, but unless you identify the tangible differences, you can't be sure why it is what it is.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

I've played with settings from 13 to 20... preferring finer settings (I preinfuse) ... taste & texture are great, of course, but just not all the highlights I get on the Knock... and I suspect it may be about amount of or difference in degree of fines between the two grinders?


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

(Regarding my earlier comments between the two grinders)

I'm waffling now... the brew from a Niche is just so darn good (and so easy) that I've given up looking for subtle differences in flavour notes, and just enjoying the indulgence of a very good shot! ??


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> If you have an extension lead with a red neon light mains indicator and are happy to leave that plugged in....





Slowpress said:


> Sorry, I'm not understanding what you mean ... I am 100% clueless about "leads" & "mains".
> 
> I plug directly from the Niche into the kitchen wall's electrical outlet (no extension cord being used). Is that A-OK?


 I've since learned "mains" and "leads" simply mean "power cord".... the electrical supply with an extension cord attached, in my part of the world! (Mea culpa... I "come from away"!?)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Slowpress said:


> I've since learned "mains" and "leads" simply mean "power cord".... the electrical supply with an extension cord attached, in my part of the world! (Mea culpa... I "come from away"!?)


 Dave's point was really that lots of appliances, extension cords, sockets (like an electric cooker socket) have an indicator to show that they are live, even if on standby & we don't fret about these, so why fret about the indicator on the Niche.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Exactly, bridge rectifier, caps, resistors, all doing nothing....just that little 0.25W neon glowing away. Which probably costs for a worst case 1p for 12 days on 24x7 but it could be half that or less, depends on how much power the neon uses. I would feel confident saying that it's less than 30p per annum on 24x7.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Exactly, bridge rectifier, caps, resistors, all doing nothing....just that little 0.25W neon glowing away. Which probably costs for a worst case 1p for 12 days on 24x7 but it could be half that or less, depends on how much power the neon uses. I would feel confident saying that it's less than 30p per annum on 24x7.


 Oh, it wasn't cost (nor power consumption) I was concerned about... my worry was related to protecting the Niche... didn't want to "burn" or "tire out"? anything by having it in the constant power sort-of "on" mode. (Don't you just love my technical language for all things electrical?!?)


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

OK my Niche was from the first batch, and in the past week I noticed the grind setting was changing whilst grinding, getting coarser by about a third of a point whilst grinding 16g.
So last night I set about cleaning it for the first time....and found a layer of oily coffee stuck on the underside of the upper burr. I removed this and gave it a general clean up, and hey presto it is working perfectly.
As I haven't cleaned it for 9 months this is probably worst case scenario...but does indicate that a clean every 6 months is probably necessary.
Has anyone else been as lazy as me and seen the same issue with coffee build up, or am I the only lazy person here?

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Given my usage - once on a working day, twice a day at the weekend - I clean mine every couple of months or so. Never had a problem with it, and it's from the first batch too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

Mine is approaching 3 months old. I have taken it apart once and cleaned all the grinds out with the brush, I got the same weight out as DaveC in his video.

Should I do any more than that to it? I saw Puly do grinder cleaner, is it needed? I'd worry that it would clean the seasoning off the burrs.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nick1881 said:


> Mine is approaching 3 months old. I have taken it apart once and cleaned all the grinds out with the brush, I got the same weight out as DaveC in his video.
> 
> Should I do any more than that to it? I saw Puly do grinder c﻿leaner﻿, is it needed? I'd worry that it would clean the seasoning off the burrs.


 Please don't put that through it...it's useless, doesn't really clean properly and is a palliative for people who have grinders that are not easy to open up e.g. some Compaks etc..

Just open Niche use very slightly damp microfibre, wipe round chamber and floor with burrs out...let it dry (plus dry with dry microfibre). Clean burrs with a dry toothbrush...if ever you think there might be coffee oils caked on use a damp toothbrush and allow to dry (plus wipe dry with kitchen towel) before putting back.

For threads, if and when they need cleaning (probably annually), use another toothbrush just for those and wipe round to get any trapped ground coffee out, wipe with dry kitchen towel (all in direction of threads) and then use a "smear" of silicone grease to lubricate...don't use very much at all and you don't need to smear the whole thread, just a small portion, it will carry.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> OK my Niche was from the first batch, and in the past week I noticed the grind setting was changing whilst grinding, getting coarser by about a third of a point whilst grinding 16g.
> So last night I set about cleaning it for the first time....and found a layer of oily coffee stuck on the underside of the upper burr. I removed this and gave it a general clean up, and hey presto it is working perfectly.
> As I haven't cleaned it for 9 months this is probably worst case scenario...but does indicate that a clean every 6 months is probably necessary.
> Has anyone else been as lazy as me and seen the same issue with coffee build up, or am I the only lazy person here?
> ...


 I don't have problems, but you can ask Niche to post you some slightly stiffer springs...see what they say.


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## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Please don't put that through it...it's useless, doesn't really clean properly and is a palliative for people who have grinders that are not easy to open up e.g. some Compaks etc..
> 
> Just open Niche use very slightly damp microfibre, wipe round chamber and floor with burrs out...let it dry (plus dry with dry microfibre). Clean burrs with a dry toothbrush...if ever you think there might be coffee oils caked on use a damp toothbrush and allow to dry (plus wipe dry with kitchen towel) before putting back.
> 
> For threads, if and when they need cleaning (probably annually), use another toothbrush just for those and wipe round to get any trapped ground coffee out, wipe with dry kitchen towel (all in direction of threads) and then use a "smear" of silicone grease to lubricate...don't use very much at all and you don't need to smear the whole thread, just a small portion, it will carry.


 Thanks very much Dave, I still need to pick up some grease for this and Bianca maintenance. I will do this every 3 months.

I love cleaning and maintaining my stuff, did the shower screen on the Bianca yesterday as per your video, very satisfying.


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie (May 4, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I don't have problems, but you can ask Niche to post you some slightly stiffer springs...see what they say.


tbh it is absolutely fine after the clean. The grind adjustment has noticeably stiffened since the clean, making me think it had loosened off over time as coffee had built up in the grinder.
I will just clean it a bit more often 

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

My niche is fairly new and grind adjustment is quite smooth and not moving at all while grinding. If you just cleaned it and grind adjustment is stiff i think something is not right. Might be left some grinds on threads.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TonyCoffeeNewbie said:


> tbh it is absolutely fine after the clean. The grind adjustment has noticeably stiffened since the clean, making me think it had loosened off over time as coffee had built up in the grinder.
> I will just clean it a bit more often
> 
> 
> ...


 That's probably best, long term USA test unit has the original springs and has never slipped, but I do keep him fairly clean. It's been in continuous use now for 17 months, so will be the longest running unit out there by at least 8 months or more. I have also abused it a bit and I'm just waiting to see how it holds up over time and then Niche will take it apart if it ever fails to find out why (and presumably examine the rest of the components to look at wear etc..). It's also possible in the early days Niche were over enthusiastic with the grease on the threads (or possibly not as careful to avoid the top pusher), I suspect they learnt a lot running the assembly line themselves.


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

Hello, I haven't read through the 88 pages, but having now tried my Niche for a few days, it taste is very different than my other (Flat burr) grinders. I'm finding the exact same coffee more fluffy, but slightly less sweet. I'm having to run my shots slightly shorter to get similar sweetness & also they are tasting a little 'hollow' Any thoughts on running it finer/coarser/length to get more 'mid' in your mouth? (I'm comparing it to EK43, Mazzer mini a, Eureka 75E) i.e. make a conical a bit more flat burr in taste, esspecially the 'Mids'

Otherwise I like it, though it could feel a bit more 'pro'. I.e the burr sounds/looks a little unprecise, over all needs an updated 'industrial' look (Sorry Martin, but feels a bit 80's aesthetically) I do like the size, and got one as I need a sampler grinder (EK43 stand-in), I just need to get the taste dialed in. Cheers


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

I'll leave the comments regarding grind suggestions up to others, but I do want to comment regarding your impression of the Niche's appearance. Form follows function in the case of the Niche. Frankly, I've not yet seen a grinder that has impressed me as being a thing of beauty. In fact the majority of them, to me anyway, look just plain butt ugly. But pretty is as pretty does, and any good consistent grinder is a thing of beauty because of its performance, not the shell it wears.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Lilybell2 said:


> I'll leave the comments regarding grind suggestions up to others, but I do want to comment regarding your impression of the Niche's appearance. Form follows function in the case of the Niche. Frankly, I've not yet seen a grinder that has impressed me as being a thing of beauty. In fact the majority of them, to me anyway, look just plain butt ugly. But pretty is as pretty does, and any good consistent grinder is a thing of beauty because of its performance, not the shell it wears.


 When I look at the niche it always makes me think of...









No bad thing...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffeejon said:


> Hello, I haven't read through the 88 pages, but having now tried my Niche for a few days, it taste is very different than my other (Flat burr) grinders. I'm finding the exact same coffee more fluffy, but slightly less sweet. I'm having to run my shots slightly shorter to get similar sweetness & also they are tasting a little 'hollow' Any thoughts on running it finer/coarser/length to get more 'mid' in your mouth? (I'm comparing it to EK43, Mazzer mini a, Eureka 75E) i.e. make a conical a bit more flat burr in taste, esspecially the 'Mids'
> 
> Otherwise I like it, though it could feel a bit more 'pro'. I.e the burr sounds/looks a little unprecise, over all needs an updated 'industrial' look (Sorry Martin, but feels a bit 80's aesthetically) I do like the size, and got one as I need a sampler grinder (EK43 stand-in), I just need to get the taste dialed in. Cheers


 Running a shot shorter decreases extraction with that can impact sweetness.

Normally to increase sweetness you would grind finer and or put more water through the puck unless you have hit the extraction ceiling of your coffee and grinder and at around 1:2 that is unlikely ( this seems to be where most people are )

Ignore the Ek43 comparison , thats a different beast.

Hollow is hard to dissect , it's not something I am tasting , re Mazzer what ratios are you running on those and how are you changing them on the Niche? It could be you need to extract more to get past bitterness not less ( extraction yield and sweetness are not always linear ie. doesnt go sour , sour, sour , sweet, sweeter bitter, , sometimes there can be a bitterness you need to get thought to reach the sweeter )


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

Lilybell2 said:


> I'll leave the comments regarding grind suggestions up to others, but I do want to comment regarding your impression of the Niche's appearance. Form follows function in the case of the Niche. Frankly, I've not yet seen a grinder that has impressed me as being a thing of beauty. In fact the majority of them, to me anyway, look just plain butt ugly. But pretty is as pretty does, and any good consistent grinder is a thing of beauty because of its performance, not the shell it wears.


 I say this as a product designer, though doesn't mean my impression is correct for you. I agree grinders are not that pretty, but I do think these are precision machines and sharp / industrial / technical looks inhance this feeling. The Niche is soft / round which in my opinion increase's the feeling of being less precise. Also Martin (and I mean no offence) is a designer from the 80's & most designers (including myself) keep the aesthic from the era of your training & this is a perfect case. Again, i'm not saying it's not badly designed, ugly etc, just I wonder if a more industrial aesthetic would be more appropriate (seeing 99% of people on this forum are male enthusiasts) & most espresso machines are in this ball park.


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Running a shot shorter decreases extraction with that can impact sweetness.
> 
> Normally to increase sweetness you would grind finer and or put more water through the puck unless you have hit the extraction ceiling of your coffee and grinder and at around 1:2 that is unlikely ( this seems to be where most people are )
> 
> ...


 thx. I'll have a play. I'm always 18g in and 30g out (so I can compare)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm testing another Niche Zero at the moment and this one has absolutely new burrs. Took the long term USA test one off the counter and immediately can tell the difference with this new one as the burrs are almost brand new and not yet broken in. *So if you have just purchased one, there is quite a big difference (improvement) after grinding the first 5kg.* You won't notice it so much because it happens gradually. I only noticed because I moved from burrs with 40kg+ through them to almost brand new ones.


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I'm testing another Niche Zero at the moment and this one has absolutely new burrs. Took the long term USA test one off the counter and immediately can tell the difference with this new one as the burrs are almost brand new and not yet broken in. *So if you have just purchased one, there is quite a big difference (improvement) after grinding the first 5kg.* You won't notice it so much because it happens gradually. I only noticed because I moved from burrs with 40kg+ through them to almost brand new ones.


 Damn - I thought it was me slowly getting better. :good:


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Coffeejon said:


> Hello, I haven't read through the 88 pages, but having now tried my Niche for a few days, it taste is very different than my other (Flat burr) grinders. I'm finding the exact same coffee more fluffy, but slightly less sweet. I'm having to run my shots slightly shorter to get similar sweetness & also they are tasting a little 'hollow' Any thoughts on running it finer/coarser/length to get more 'mid' in your mouth? (I'm comparing it to EK43, Mazzer mini a, Eureka 75E) i.e. make a conical a bit more flat burr in taste, esspecially the 'Mids'
> 
> Otherwise I like it, though it could feel a bit more 'pro'. I.e the burr sounds/looks a little unprecise, over all needs an updated 'industrial' look (Sorry Martin, but feels a bit 80's aesthetically) I do like the size, and got one as I need a sampler grinder (EK43 stand-in), I just need to get the taste dialed in. Cheers


 The Niche benefits from the grinds being stirred / mixed either in the catch-cup or portafilter (or both). May help.


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> I'm testing another Niche Zero at the moment and this one has absolutely new burrs. Took the long term USA test one off the counter and immediately can tell the difference with this new one as the burrs are almost brand new and not yet broken in. *So if you have just purchased one, there is quite a big difference (improvement) after grinding the first 5kg.* You won't notice it so much because it happens gradually. I only noticed because I moved from burrs with 40kg+ through them to almost brand new ones.


 Thx Dave. I have a used one, though not that old either. I'll see if it improves. I've now really pushed the fineness & even though its not a 'mouse tail' it definitely is better. Cheers.


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

lake_m said:


> The Niche benefits from the grinds being stirred / mixed either in the catch-cup or portafilter (or both). May help.


 Thx for this, i'll give that a go as well. Cheers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffeejon said:


> Thx Dave. I have a used one, though not that old either. I'll see if it improves. I've now really pushed the fineness & even though its not a 'mouse tail' it definitely is better. Cheers.


 Tip - mouses tail tells you very little about the quality of the extraction


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Tip - mouses tail tells you very little about the quality of the extraction


 If it's on a naked, then it's a start when compared to a gusher.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Coffeejon said:


> Again, i'm *not *saying it's *not *badly designed


 I hope you're not saying it's badly designed. If you're not not saying that it's not badly designed, then that's also fine.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jlarkin said:


> I hope you're not saying it's badly designed. If you're not not saying that it's not badly designed, then that's also fine.


 So what is he not saying?

"me, I'm not saying nuthin"


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> If it's on a naked, then it's a start when compared to a gusher.


 But a gusher is apparent from weight out in what time though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)




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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

opcorn: I just watched it....enjoyed it, didn't get triggered at all.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> opcorn: I just watched it....enjoyed it, didn't get triggered at all.


 He isn't trying hard enough then


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

jlarkin said:


> I hope you're not saying it's badly designed. If you're not not saying that it's not badly designed, then that's also fine.


 thx. Problem with this kind of comment is it makes me not want to contribute to the forum. Sure we're all not perfect, but this doesn't help anyone. Fine with correcting my comments about coffee etc, but this keeps people away..... just sayin coffee friend


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Coffeejon said:


> Fine﻿ with correcting my comments about coffee etc, but this keeps people away


 Don't take it personally, @jlarkin is jus larking about...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

igm45 said:


> Don't take it personally, @jlarkin is jus larking about...


 I agree it wasn't mean maliciously


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Coffeejon said:


> thx. Problem with this kind of comment is it makes me not want to contribute to the forum. Sure we're all not perfect, but this doesn't help anyone. Fine with correcting my comments about coffee etc, but this keeps people away..... just sayin coffee friend


I was just joking. Sorry I thought a triple "not" was enough to show it was a joke. Next time I'll add an emoticon as well in case it helps to convey things better.

Sent from my FIG-LX1 using Tapatalk


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## Coffeejon (Oct 10, 2014)

Thx all, no offence taken. Appreciate the Niche tips ?


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Lilybell2 said:


> ...This morning, as my beans were being nicely ground, I realized I was holding the cup in my hand while a lovely mound of ground coffee was being created directly beneath the Niche's chute. I think my dog was laughing at me!





Slowpress said:


> I amazed myself in doing precisely the same thing!?‍♀?


 Even more fun when you are talking and distracted and tip your ground coffee back into the grinder ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Does take a while to come back through, done this myself.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Done this myself as well. Part of the learning curve.


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## Alder (Jul 10, 2019)

Received mine a few weeks ago, and I'm very happy with the Niche! The screw holding the lid was initially too loose and the lid didn't close properly, but adding a piece of thread to the screw fixed the problem - has anyone experienced this issue as well?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Alder said:


> Received mine a few weeks ago, and I'm very happy with the Niche! The screw holding the lid was initially too loose and the lid didn't close properly, but adding a piece of thread to the screw fixed the problem - has anyone experienced this issue as well?


 Never heard of the problem, can you explain more clearly e.g. thread not correct and turning all the time, screw not going in far enough before stopping, screw too long deeper than screw hole etc...

Where did you add the thread, around the screw thread, below the top of the screw, do you have a photo???


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## Alder (Jul 10, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Never heard of the problem, can you explain more clearly e.g. thread not correct and turning all the time, screw not going in far enough before stopping﻿, screw too long deeper than screw hole etc...
> 
> Where did you add the thread, around the screw thread, below the top of the screw, do you have a photo???


 It looked like the screw width was a tiny bit too small for the hole - the screw was spinning freely and going out freely as well, and not holding the lid in place. I added a fabric thread into the screw from the head all the way down so that it would fit better, and that managed to fix the issue. I will take a photo next week when I'm back home


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

took me a moment to get what putting a thread on a thread means in this thread


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Alder said:


> It looked like the screw width was a tiny bit too small for the hole - the screw was spinning freely and going out freely as well, and not holding the lid in place. I added a fabric thread into the screw from the head all the way down so that it would fit better, and that managed to fix the issue. I will take a photo next week when I'm back home


 Check there is a thread cut in the hole, in case you have a screw the wrong size and you should contact Niche.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

For me the grinder is fantastic! It out performs my previous Mignon and as a single dose machine grinder it's clean, less workflow, clumpless, quick enough for me, looks good and not like an ugly run of the mill grinder......

For my coffee life it's a no brainier!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

There was some discussion a while ago about running in burrs, some believed it made a significant difference others didn't. My estimate for the niche was around 15-20k,g for the burrs to be fully running in, there being an exponentially decreasing level of improvement with each kg ground and the 1st 5Kg made the largest difference....

I have been testing a Japanese variant grinder (because as I am sure people know they run 100V). Of course it came with new burrs and I was initially tempted to put the USA long term test grinder burrs in them, but I resisted the urge. I sort of didn't want to use brand new burrs that Niche could happily put into a brand new grinder and sell. I'm glad I resisted this urge because there is a huge difference between brand new burrs and ones that have done 20Kg. With the same coffees I could put them first in one grinder and then in the other. The burrs that had 20kg on them gave better looking pours and less observable "channelling"/"dead spots".

Now the Japanese burrs have at least 3 kg on them they are performing bettter. I think for many people the change is gradual and those who have already ground 10-15kg on their Niche probably have not noticed the gradual improvement. As soon as you side by side brand new and run in...the difference is clear.

So I do believe there is value in running 2 or 3kg of running in beans (cheap old, poor roast etc..) through the grinder even if these have to come from the supermarket!


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

"The﻿ burrs that had 20kg on them gave better looking pours and less observable "channelling"/"dead spots".﻿﻿"

Hmmm... I've got an accumulation of beans in the freezer that won't be brewed by me, unless desperate! and I could certainly run them through my grinder. Does grinding large amounts (5 k) all at once like this impact overall longevity of burrs & motor at all? And, do you feel flavour difference is notable enough (in the cup) to warrant me grinding 5 k?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> There was some discussion a while ago about running in burrs, some believed it made a significant difference others didn't. My estimate for the niche was around 15-20k,g for the burrs to be fully running in, there being an exponentially decreasing level of improvement with each kg ground and the 1st 5Kg made the largest difference....
> 
> I have been testing a Japanese variant grinder (because as I am sure people know they run 100V). Of course it came with new burrs and I was initially tempted to put the USA long term test grinder burrs in them, but I resisted the urge. I sort of didn't want to use brand new burrs that Niche could happily put into a brand new grinder and sell. I'm glad I resisted this urge because there is a huge difference between brand new burrs and ones that have done 20Kg. With the same coffees I could put them first in one grinder and then in the other. The burrs that had 20kg on them gave better looking pours and less observable "channelling"/"dead spots".
> 
> ...


 Welcome back Dave!

Do you happen to know what the difference in RPM would be from US to Euro to JP models?
I suppose they share the same motor and gearbox with a varying power supply?


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## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

I'm passed 3kgs now but it's taken me a while so I've probably not noticed the changes.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Hasi said:


> Welcome back Dave!
> 
> Do you happen to know what the difference in RPM would be from US to Euro to JP models?
> I suppose they share the same motor and gearbox with a varying power supply?


 The motors are all custom made for Niche and are also differently wound motors for different countries stated nominal voltages to ensure they deliver sufficient power/torque and other characteristics e.g. Japan is 100V. I saw some speculation about motors, but I am not at liberty to discuss Niches intellectual copyright and wouldn't want to say anything more than the information above.

I would always recommend purchasing a manufacturer OEM motor (if needed) not something that "looks the same".....


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> The motors are all custom made for Niche and are also differently wound motors for different countries stated nominal voltages to ensure they deliver sufficient power/torque and other characteristics e.g. Japan is 100V. I saw some speculation about motors, but I am not at liberty to discuss Niches intellectual copyright and wouldn't want to say anything more than the information above.
> 
> I would always recommend purchasing a manufacturer OEM motor (if needed) not something that "looks the same".....


 Thanks Dave!
I've just seen charts manufacturers provide as to what output a grinder has in which country version (e.g. Compak is doing it in their manuals: http://www.compak.es/docs/E8_OD_M_EN.pdf page 9). Hence wondering how much of a difference in grind result it could mean and whether or not these models are comparable.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Slowpress said:


> "The﻿ burrs that had 20kg on them gave better looking pours and less observable "channelling"/"dead spots".﻿﻿"
> 
> Hmmm... I've got an accumulation of beans in the freezer that won't be brewed by me, unless desperate! and I could certainly run them through my grinder. Does grinding large amounts (5 k) all at once like this impact overall longevity of burrs & motor at all? And, do you feel flavour difference is notable enough (in the cup) to warrant me grinding 5 k?


 The Japanese grinder is specifically for load testing. It will go back when I have finished abusing it for the motor to be broken apart and examined. Normally I consider breaking stuff wasteful, but in this case the case was a second, it's a Japanese grinder but with a USA plug and of course meets no approvals whatsoever  so legally unsellable.

I do have an accumulation of beans I will put through it as part of a load test, and will let you know if it goes pop or does anything horrible....well I know it shouldn't...

P.S. I perhaps wouldn't grind a Kg without a few cool down pauses though....say 1 minute on 1 minute off.


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## Colinz (Jun 13, 2019)

My comparison is with the Kinu M47, which I have put on ebay (on 29 July 19) now the Niche is up and running. I am totally happy with the Niche although it would be great to load the portafilter directly from the spout.

For what it's worth, here are two pics showing 5g ground by both the Kinu (left) and the Niche (on the right). Sadly, my taste buds are not educated enough to speak with confidence which was the better. Both produced a consistent result although the Niche (may) contain more visible skin or is it parchment/silverskin?


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## ken0062 (May 19, 2017)

Just after a few opinions, Got my Niche a couple of weeks ago initially intended to use it just for espresso and continue with the aergrind for V60 but have been trying it out for V60 also.

Owing to the fact i will be continuosly changing settings and coffee if I carry on using it this way is it worth persuing or would i be better of sticking with the aergrind for brewed.

I usually make about one single V60 a day and three to four espresso


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

ken0062 said:


> Just after a few opinions, Got my Niche a couple of weeks ago initially intended to use it just for espresso and continue with the aergrind for V60 but have been trying it out for V60 also.
> 
> Owing to the fact i will be continuosly changing settings and coffee if I carry on using it this way is it worth persuing or would i be better of sticking with the aergrind for brewed.


 I have a feldgrind, which I had before the Niche. I initially thought I'd do the same and use the feld for brewed, but it's now my work/travel grinder and gets no home use whatsoever haha.

I just found the Niche covers the lot for me without me having to put the effort in to handgrind...


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## ken0062 (May 19, 2017)

Do you find it necessary to run a few grams of beans through to purge when changing grind type or am I just wasting beans by doing this.


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## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

ken0062 said:


> Do you find it necessary to run a few grams of beans through to purge when changing grind type or am I just wasting beans by doing this.


 It depends. If the grind setting change isn't dramatic, i.e. only a couple notches, then I don't find it necessary to run a few grams through. If I am grinding significantly finer than before, e.g. 5+ notches, I don't find it necessary to run a few grams through. But, if I am grinding significantly coarser, i.e. 5+ notches coarser, then I find I do need to. Otherwise the next 1-2 shots will be slower than the 3rd+ shot.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jchung said:


> It depends. If the grind setting change isn't dramatic, i.e. only a couple notches, then I don't find it necessary to run a few grams through. If I am grinding significantly finer than before, e.g. 5+ notches, I don't find it necessary to run a few grams through. But, if I am grinding significantly coarser, i.e. 5+ notches coarser, then I find I do need to. Otherwise the next 1-2 shots will be slower than the 3rd+ shot.


 That's interesting, because after going only 5 notches coarser for 1 grind you might get a 0.3-0.4g variance (at the very most) vs the previous grind at the finer setting. I often go 4-5 notches coarser for exactly the same coffee when I pull shots on the Vesuvius and then move to the Minima for exactly the same coffee. I have not experienced this phenomenon and would be surprised if 0.3 or 0.4g could make that much difference exchanging out as the Niche stabilises. I personally have never found the need to run a few grams through the Niche for any grind/coffee change.

It might be worth looking to see if there is any other cause.

P.S. Even going considerably coarser/finer, like a whole rotation might only give around 0.7g.


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## jchung (Nov 26, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> That's interesting, because after going only 5 notches coarser for 1 grind you might get a 0.3-0.4g variance (at the very most) vs the previous grind at the finer setting. I often go 4-5 notches coarser for exactly the same coffee when I pull shots on the Vesuvius and then move to the Minima for exactly the same coffee. I have not experienced this phenomenon and would be surprised if 0.3 or 0.4g could make that much difference exchanging out as the Niche stabilises. I personally have never found the need to run a few grams through the Niche for any grind/coffee change.
> 
> It might be worth looking to see if there is any other cause.
> 
> P.S. Even going considerably coarser/finer, like a whole rotation might only give around 0.7g.


 I think its the beans that I use when I have to go significantly finer. Those beans are usually old or stale that I'm just trying to use up rather than waste them. IIRC, these were usually also darker beans and had significantly more static. I stopped weighing the output a long time ago, so I can't say how much of the grinds was retained in the NZ after I grind 5+ notches finer. So when I go back to fresh beans, i.e. 5+ notches coarser, my extraction is longer by 5-10 seconds. Next time I have to use up old/stale beans, I'll make a point of weighing the output and comparing it to the pre-ground weight.


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

I'd been trawling the net comparing grinders (this and others) as I usually have 2 or 3 beans on the go and single dosing works for me. So read a lot of stuff on the forum and watched vid by James Hoffman, so bit the bullet and bought one.

Had the grinder a week now and I'm blown away with it. My coffee that I previously thought was the 'beans' is now stunning, can't believe the difference the Niche has made. After contacting James at Niche to clarify some burr settings, I have been using the grinder for french press. Only takes a few seconds to adjust 1 full revolution of the adjustment ring and less than a minute to return to espresso setting. All it requires is doing the adjustment back to espresso setting in increments of 10 on the dial, followed by having the motor run for a second or two just to make sure no chunks of beans are left from the coarse grind. A small price to pay for me as the grinder is far better then the one I had for french press.

As for popping beans near to the end, I placed a blind portafilter basket on top of the beans and this stopped it. Going on from there I fashioned a contact lense shape out of Hama beads a little bigger than the size of the 58mm basket. Sits nicely on the top of the beans and having the bowl shape made the beans pop less.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

TonyJoe said:


> I'd been trawling the net comparing grinders (this and others) as I usually have 2 or 3 beans on the go and single dosing works for me. So read a lot of stuff on the forum and watched vid by James Hoffman, so bit the bullet and bought one.
> 
> Had the grinder a week now and I'm blown away with it. My coffee that I previously thought was the 'beans' is now stunning, can't believe the difference the Niche has made. After contacting James at Niche to clarify some burr settings, I have been using the grinder for french press. Only takes a few seconds to adjust 1 full revolution of the adjustment ring and less than a minute to return to espresso setting. All it requires is doing the adjustment back to espresso setting in increments of 10 on the dial, followed by having the motor run for a second or two just to make sure no chunks of beans are left from the coarse grind. A small price to pay for me as the grinder is far better then the one I had for french press.
> 
> ...


 you stole them from the kids, how dare you?!
haha, great stuff though - might get my girl to make me one of these. Although, it could end up being pink and yellow and purple and fancypants glow-in-the-dark and generally representing a unicorn of sorts...

...until it's finished I keep rocking a blind filter


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Hasi said:


> you﻿ stole them from the kids, how dare you?!
> haha, great stuff though - might get my girl to make me one of these. Although, it could end up being pin﻿k and yellow and purple and fancypants glow-in-the-dark and generally representing a unicorn of sorts...
> 
> ...until it's finished I keep rocking a blind filter


 Now I know why I got the grandkids black beads, matches the Niche nicely ?


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

2 month deep clean


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> 2 month deep clean
> 
> <img alt="20190808_172952.thumb.jpg.eb931ccbd2df2ffc6ab704fba70f98f3.jpg" data-fileid="31511" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_08/20190808_172952.thumb.jpg.eb931ccbd2df2ffc6ab704fba70f98f3.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


@joey24dirt how much do you charge for these bases??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

KTD said:


> @joey24dirt how much do you charge for these bases??
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And do you make ones for EKs?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

PPapa said:


> And do you make ones for EKs?


Yeah I've done an EK for Dog&hat. It was fully round though and didn't have the straight front part. I can make either forms though 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

I've had my Niche Zero for a couple of months now and am absolutely delighted with it. On buying my NZ as a result of DaveC's review, I also splashed out and bought the Acaia Lunar to replace my battery hungry Brewista. What a difference, the quality of my shots and therefore my lattes has improved markedly giving richer and tastier results. I've read that going from flat burrs to conical burrs can make a difference but I didn't expect it to be so dramatically better, which it is. My workflow hasn't changed much as I always weighed beans and grinds and then shot output as well. It's such a delight to get out almost the same weight in grinds as the weight of beans put into the NZ, with on demand it was never close and therefore I felt that I had no control over that variable in my process, I do now! The Acaia Lunar is a delight compared to the Brewista which would gobble up a pair of AAA alkaline within 5 days, it was the same with the replacement as well. My solution was to leave the battery compartment open on only insert the batteries when needed, taking them out immediately after. The result being that the batteries lasted approx 3 months before needing replacement. None of that with the Lunar. It's also possible to turn off some options in the settings allowing me to use only the droplet mode, which starts the timer when it detects flow and turns it off when it stops. I found the auto reset to be a nuisance so turned it off in the settings, now the time and weight remain displayed until I'm ready to change them.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

centaursailing said:


> I've had my Niche Zero for a couple of months now and am absolutely delighted with it. On buying my NZ as a result of DaveC's review, I also splashed out and bought the Acaia Lunar to replace my battery hungry Brewista. What a difference, the quality of my shots and therefore my lattes has improved markedly giving richer and tastier results. I've read that going from flat burrs to conical burrs can make a difference but I didn't expect it to be so dramatically better, which it is. My workflow hasn't changed much as I always weighed beans and grinds and then shot output as well. It's such a delight to get out almost the same weight in grinds as the weight of beans put into the NZ, with on demand it was never close and therefore I felt that I had no control over that variable in my process, I do now! The Acaia Lunar is a delight compared to the Brewista which would gobble up a pair of AAA alkaline within 5 days, it was the same with the replacement as well. My solution was to leave the battery compartment open on only insert the batteries when needed, taking them out immediately after. The result being that the batteries lasted approx 3 months before needing replacement. None of that with the Lunar. It's also possible to turn off some options in the settings allowing me to use only the droplet mode, which starts the timer when it detects flow and turns it off when it stops. I found the auto reset to be a nuisance so turned it off in the settings, now the time and weight remain displayed until I'm ready to change them.


 I'd watch what you're saying about flat burrs - you'll have the big flattie mob after you! ?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

lake_m said:


> I'd watch what you're saying about flat burrs - you'll have the big flattie mob after you!


Supposedly conicals are fine for dark roasts...

I've seen few folk and reviews saying that they couldn't tell a difference between EK and Niche. I'd like to do such test to see what they're doing and what they're tasting...


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I've read that conics struggle with picking out flavour profiles of light roasts

The only experience I have is comparing my previous 63mm flat with the E92 and it was night and day in terms of fullness of flavour which is what I prefer.

Horses for courses but if you can afford both........


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've had my Niche for 8 months now so roughly 8 x 750g through it. Shot consistency has mostly settled down now. Curious thing is that I find I have needed to use finer settings as the burrs run in. Still on my oily monsooned malabar and at a setting of 5 - 6. Things started off at around 8 - 9 or more. I've also upped the ratio I use since I started using it. Still playing with that but a bit higher looks to be favourite.

I've settled on grinding directly into the portafilter. Held in my hand and an aluminium foil "snoot" on the Niche spout to extend it a bit. Part due to the portafilter funnel I have and the reach of the spout but intend to do a bit of metal work when I can get at my lathe. A much taller funnel that works as I like them to. Probably follow that with a stand. Without the snoot grinds would fly all over the place - not much each time but it builds up.

I don't mess about stirring grinds etc as this bean would clump. I just bang the portafilter down around 1/2 dozen times to knock the grinds down. If there a large loose clump breaks up after the first tap down. Then chisel level followed by a tamp.

 Good job that the grinder and lid is solid and well made. I whack the top with the flat of my hand each time I use it - a very small quantity of grinds fall out. Also do the same after a grind.

I have had oil build up on the funnel and the odd bean stick to it but it's easy to wipe off now and again with a damp cloth.

John

-


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

lake_m said:


> My workflow hasn't changed much as I always weighed beans and grinds and then shot﻿﻿ output as well. It's such a delight to get out almost the same weight in grinds a﻿﻿﻿s﻿ t﻿he weight of beans put into the NZ, with on demand it was never close and therefore ﻿﻿I﻿ ﻿﻿f﻿﻿﻿﻿e﻿﻿lt that I had no control over that variable in my process, I do now!﻿ ﻿


 Do you find it really necessary to weigh the grinds? Is there a benefit from doing this with a Niche.....isn't it designed to avoid this step! Just wondering!?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> Do you find it really necessary to weigh the grinds? Is there a benefit from doing this with a Niche.....isn't it designed to avoid this step! Just wondering!?


 I don't weight out, unless ive changed from coarse to fine or vice versa.

I did but then it was always the same, so i stopped.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

nicholasj said:


> Do you find it really necessary to weigh the grinds? Is there a benefit from doing this with a Niche.....isn't it designed to avoid this step! Just wondering!?


 Bean weight variations mean I use a dose of 13.5 or 13.6g of beans into the grinder. I weighed a number of actual grinds out and decided that once it had settled from being dead clean there was no point. From memory it will loose around 1/2g of beans while it settles so once that has happened I don't see any point in weighing unless something changes such as the ratio given by a timed shot. I don't weigh out but do often check the shot weight. I always use a 30 sec shot time. There are reasons why my shot weights will vary that are purely down to preparation and nothing to do with weights of grinds. The answer to checking grinds weight is to do it to check that it isn't causing variations. Currently I aim for a shot weight in the low 40g range. Odd ones come out closer to 50. Checking grinds weights tells me that it's nothing to do with that so must be down to preparation.

As a comparison I modified a mazzer mini for weighing in and got it to hold weights to 0.1g. Actually exactly what went in usually came out using 0.1g scales. That with a 35g shot produced a shot weight variation that was always less than 4g and most of the time better than 2g. Lot of fiddling about to get all of the grinds out - easy with Niche and takes a lot less time as no need for spin ups and brushing this and that.

John

-


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

nicholasj said:


> Do you find it really necessary to weigh the grinds? Is there a benefit from doing this with a Niche.....isn't it designed to avoid this step! Just wondering!?


 No I was referring to the E92. I don't weigh out on the Niche. Stopped doing that on the 2nd day of ownership ?


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

I weigh before & after grinding...always... but that's just cuz I like to, not because it is necessary. ☺

However, after cleaning the niche grinder, then I really do need to weigh the first few doses, just until the "non-retention"? grinder retains the consistent wee bit from dose to dose, otherwise weight will vary.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Slowpress said:


> I weigh before & after grinding...always... but that's just cuz I like to, not because it is necessary. ☺


 Same here.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

(edited... as I may have answered my own question)


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## Andori (Sep 10, 2019)

Finally got my NZ out of the box last night and tried it (a day late). I've got nothing to compare it to with it being my first grinder, but it was lovely and quiet. First attempts were with decaf from Stokes. Being a newb, I set it to 10 which choked my Classic in a bottomless p/f with stock basket. Changed to 15 and got something that made a drinkable Americano ? but there was a bit of water on top of the puck, so will try 17 next time.

I'm still very much a newb and learning how to use it all.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Slowpress said:


> I weigh before & after grinding...always... but that's just cuz I like to, not because it is necessary. ☺
> 
> However, after cleaning the niche grinder, then I really do need to weigh the first few doses, just until the "non-retention"? grinder retains the consistent wee bit from dose to dose, otherwise weight will vary.


 From what I can see the bulk of any retention isn't in the grind chamber. It's at the top of the spout.  Mine's been there so long I doubt if it has any chance what so ever of tainting fresh beans. I did remove it once and it took some effort - cocktail stick.

Static has been interesting over several kg of beans. From new none followed by enough to stick to the can then dropping of to very loose clumps that aren't worth bothering about.

I also needed to drop the dose I used on flat by 1/2g to maximise the benefits of Niche. Higher ratio too but I tend to play with that now and again anyway so may be irrelevant.

John

-


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Andori said:


> Finally got my NZ out of the box last night and tried it (a day late). I've got nothing to compare it to with it being my first grinder, but it was lovely and quiet. First attempts were with decaf from Stokes. Being a newb, I set it to 10 which choked my Classic in a bottomless p/f with stock basket. Changed to 15 and got something that made a drinkable Americano ? but there was a bit of water on top of the puck, so will try 17 next time.
> 
> I'm still very much a newb and learning how to use it all.


 I don't know if the Classic has a 3 way solenoid arrangement but if it does the water may be down to a low fill height. I understand some check that with a coin, maybe a 5p. Fill and tamp, place the coin on it, fit the portafilter, remove and get the fill height just short of the coin leaving an impression. Then try small variations of say +/- 1/2g steps. If too high the output will reduce but being able to detect that needs pretty consistent grinds preparation. Too low = wet pucks at some point.

Some one on the Gaggia forum who did this at some point might be able to suggest a suitable coin.

John

-


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## Andori (Sep 10, 2019)

ajohn said:


> I don't know if the Classic has a 3 way solenoid arrangement but if it does the water may be down to a low fill height. I understand some check that with a coin, maybe a 5p. Fill and tamp, place the coin on it, fit the portafilter, remove and get the fill height just short of the coin leaving an impression. Then try small variations of say +/- 1/2g steps. If too high the output will reduce but being able to detect that needs pretty consistent grinds preparation. Too low = wet pucks at some point.
> 
> Some one on the Gaggia forum who did this at some point might be able to suggest a suitable coin.
> 
> ...


 Mine is a pre-2015 with a 3 way solenoid. I did think the level looked a bit low after tamping, compared to what I was getting with my pre-ground (didn't weigh that though).


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

As my builder has taken the day off from his dust generating activities and his seemingly constant skip filling journeys in and out of the house, i've been left some time and space to play with my new to me Niche.

I followed @DavecUK useful videos for burr removal and cleaning and the one for the dialling in process. Thanks Dave, after seeing your videos, cleaning and dialling was so straightforward. Thanks @Planter for obviously taking good care of the machine. Following cleaning, I found the initial grind retention was in the region of 0.4g on my medium roast beans. I expected retention as the various recessed screw heads and so forth had to fill back up with coffee. Subsequent shots seemed to retain about 0.1g or so. So all as expected following the various reports. In contrast with my Macap MC 4, I found my coffee to be fluffier with no presence of clumps. As my tastebuds are not the sharpest, I can only say that I'm looking forward to experimenting further, when my caffeine allowance permits....tomorrow☹

As a final point, whilst reading up on the grinder, there seemed to be some opinions regarding the design not favouring grinding directly into the portafilter together with the various stands that have been devised to enable this function to take place. With that point in mind, I thought I'd share with you my one cock up so far with the Niche. I know the design is geared around the use of the dosing cup, but I thought, what the hell, I've got the components to try dosing directly into the portafilter, so I'll gave it a go. The following picture shows what happens when you get distracted and forget to use the funnel ring to sit in the portafilter ?


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Very nice set up you have. I like the ECM stand.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

TonyJoe said:


> Very nice set up you have. I like the ECM stand.


 Thank you ?, oddly enough it's a relatively recent addition - Mrs Marocchino bought it for me as part of a surprise birthday present this year from Bella Barista. it was combined with the Motta grooming tool. I've got to be honest with you, I haven't really bought coffee kit for many years and now I've got that stuff and a Niche. Wonder if there's any correlation between participating in a forum and acquiring new stuff ?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Marocchino said:


> As my builder has taken the day off from his dust generating activities and his seemingly constant skip filling journeys in and out of the house, i've been left some time and space to play with my new to me Niche.
> I followed @DavecUK useful videos for burr removal and cleaning and the one for the dialling in process. Thanks Dave, after seeing your videos, cleaning and dialling was so straightforward. Thanks @Planter for obviously taking good care of the machine. Following cleaning, I found the initial grind retention was in the region of 0.4g on my medium roast beans. I expected retention as the various recessed screw heads and so forth had to fill back up with coffee. Subsequent shots seemed to retain about 0.1g or so. So all as expected following the various reports. In contrast with my Macap MC 4, I found my coffee to be fluffier with no presence of clumps. As my tastebuds are not the sharpest, I can only say that I'm looking forward to experimenting further, when my caffeine allowance permits....tomorrow
> As a final point, whilst reading up on the grinder, there seemed to be some opinions regarding the design not favouring grinding directly into the portafilter together with the various stands that have been devised to enable this function to take place. With that point in mind, I thought I'd share with you my one cock up so far with the Niche. I know the design is geared around the use of the dosing cup, but I thought, what the hell, I've got the components to try dosing directly into the portafilter, so I'll gave it a go. The following picture shows what happens when you get distracted and forget to use the funnel ring to sit in the portafilter
> 
> <img alt="6D1AF5A7-B466-488B-8B99-6696F35ABB0D.thumb.jpeg.e5c6350860bd505146cfc288387874e8.jpeg" data-fileid="32571" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_10/6D1AF5A7-B466-488B-8B99-6696F35ABB0D.thumb.jpeg.e5c6350860bd505146cfc288387874e8.jpeg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Glad to hear its all going smoothly'ish.

Keep it up its nice and easy to use and tinker with.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Noticed my safety switch was stuck today so the grinder would run even with the lid up. Some nudging with a cocktail stick and it's back working again. Just posting to share the info really.


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Marocchino said:


> As my builder has taken the day off from his dust generating activities and his seemingly constant skip filling journeys in and out of the house, i've been left some time and space to play with my new to me Niche.
> 
> I followed @DavecUK useful videos for burr removal and cleaning and the one for the dialling in process. Thanks Dave, after seeing your videos, cleaning and dialling was so straightforward. Thanks @Planter for obviously taking good care of the machine. Following cleaning, I found the initial grind retention was in the region of 0.4g on my medium roast beans. I expected retention as the various recessed screw heads and so forth had to fill back up with coffee. Subsequent shots seemed to retain about 0.1g or so. So all as expected following the various reports. In contrast with my Macap MC 4, I found my coffee to be fluffier with no presence of clumps. As my tastebuds are not the sharpest, I can only say that I'm looking forward to experimenting further, when my caffeine allowance permits....tomorrow☹
> 
> ...


 Looks good!

What's sticking out of your cork for your WDT tool? I think I'll make one.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Thanks @Gavin, the tool is not an original design, but a blatant copy from a long line of differing versions made by others that had gone before. You'll find the thread here; https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/36266-londinium-distribution-tool-'silver-bullet'/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-689429

My entry is at #95 and shows how late my realisation was that a tool like this could be a useful addition to my kit ??


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Gavin said:


> Looks good!
> 
> What's sticking out of your cork for your WDT tool? I think I'll make one.


 Some one suggested using a dissecting needle. Sounds suitable to me if the end is blunted and used to dispel air.

I've spent 2 months grinding into the poratfilter and am back on using the can. Gentle side to side shake to get the grinds in it fairy level. Then invert over the portafilter, 4 pancake flips, wobble can remove and look at the grinds. put back and then a DaveC shuffle if needed in the right direction to level them. That shuffle will compact them a bit and level all on it's own.

John

-


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

@Gavin these are readily available from Amazon and easily cut to length with a wire cutter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reusable-Stainless-Cleaning-Drinking-Cleaner/dp/B07QTHTG2W/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=stainless+steel+straw+brush&qid=1570439902&sprefix=stainless+steel+straw+brus&sr=8-3

Im sure eBay sell them too, but I recall a post reporting the order for this particular type of item going astray.

The cork I used is just a versatile holder for the twisted wires and is easily drilled to accommodate a blob of epoxy to firmly secure in position. In reality, I drilled holes slightly smaller than the diameter of the twisted wire and then push them snugly into position.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

catpuccino said:


> Noticed my safety switch was stuck today so the grinder would run even with the lid up. Some nudging with a cocktail stick and it's back working again. Just posting to share the info really.


 I think that happened once before, I think a shard of coffee jammed in there? If it happens again and it's not due to a stray coffee particle, although relatively non critical, it might be an idea to give Niche a heads up. I always use a pringles type lid, so perhaps I will never experience the issue.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Marocchino said:


> @Gavin these are readily available from Amazon and easily cut to length with a wire cutter. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reusable-Stainless-Cleaning-Drinking-Cleaner/dp/B07QTHTG2W/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=stainless+steel+straw+brush&qid=1570439902&sprefix=stainless+steel+straw+brus&sr=8-3
> 
> Im sure eBay sell them too, but I recall a post reporting the order for this particular type of item going astray.
> 
> The cork I used is just a versatile holder for the twisted wires and is easily drilled to accommodate a blob of epoxy to firmly secure in position. In reality, I drilled holes slightly smaller than the diameter of the twisted wire and then push them snugly into position.


 Small point but what length is ideal between the bottom of the cork and the end of the round bit? Cheers


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

I don't think the length is that critical, so long as the ends of the twisted wires can reach the bottom of the dosing cup. I've just taken this picture to help illustrate the point, good luck ?


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Love the oiled wood pieces, need to get around to that myself. I do WDT in the portafilter with a funnel on top, hadn't considered doing it in the cup before (i do give it a little shake though). Will have to give that a go.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> I think that happened once before, I think a shard of coffee jammed in there? If it happens again and it's not due to a stray coffee particle, although relatively non critical, it might be an idea to give Niche a heads up. I always use a pringles type lid, so perhaps I will never experience the issue.


 I've apprehended the suspect.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Interesting development over on HB. Someone fitted an auger from a Eureka Atom to the Niche to cure pop-corning. Fitted using special lock washers - currently being tested but looks very tidy. Always wondered when someone would eventually do this.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-atom-bean-popper-restrictor.html

Currently sold out.......must have been a run on them ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

lake_m said:


> Interesting development over on HB. Someone fitted an auger from a Eureka Atom to the Niche to cure pop-corning. Fitted using special lock washers - currently being tested but looks very tidy. Always wondered when someone would eventually do this.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-atom-bean-popper-restrictor.html


 Surely though won't cure popcorning just reduce it ( the height the beans jump ) and there is still there differential between a grind with a weight of beans on it at the start and at the end when there is no weight of beans.

Or am i missing something ? ( wouldn't be the first time  )

And it feeds the beans in, but this would mean you are grinding finer than if it wasn't ?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Surely though won't cure popcorning just reduce it ( the height the beans jump ) and there is still there differential between a grind with a weight of beans on it at the start and at the end when there is no weight of beans.
> 
> Or am i missing something ? ( wouldn't be the first time  )


 I think you're correct, it will just reduce it. There will always be one little shard that manages to jump out. Still for £3.99 .........


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Surely though won't cure popcorning just reduce it ( the height the beans jump ) and there is still there differential between a grind with a weight of beans on it at the start and at the end when there is no weight of beans.
> 
> Or am i missing something ? ( wouldn't be the first time  )
> 
> And it feeds the beans in, but this would mean you are grinding finer than if it wasn't ?


 I'm with you @Mrboots2u! Popcorning high or low, equals same result overall when we drink it, right?!?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Slowpress said:


> I'm with you @Mrboots2u! Popcorning high or low, equals same result overall when we drink it, right?!?


 Yep


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Video in action. Popcorning still evident here.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

lake_m said:


> Interesting development over on HB. Someone fitted an auger from a Eureka Atom to the Niche to cure pop-corning. Fitted using special lock washers - currently being tested but looks very tidy. Always wondered when someone would eventually do this.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-atom-bean-popper-restrictor.html
> 
> Currently sold out.......must have been a run on them ?


 Ah interesting. I noticed a little while back that there were people experimenting with 3D printed parts, haven't read much about the success but nice to see some community enthusiasm (though I don't find the popcorning particularly troublesome myself!).

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3800123

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3871106


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> Ah interesting. I noticed a little while back that there were people experimenting with 3D printed parts, haven't read much about the success but nice to see some community enthusiasm (though I don't find the popcorning particularly troublesome myself!).
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3800123
> 
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3871106


 The first one (in blue) looks more of what I had in mind. Actually forces the beans down into the burrs.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

lake_m said:


> The first one (in blue) looks more of what I had in mind. Actually forces the beans down into the burrs.


 Closer to what the 75E has sitting on top of the burrs, which worked very well for a grinder not designed for single dosing at all.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I haven't heard of an auger for conical burr grinder, are there any out of the box grinders that have that?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

PPapa said:


> I haven't heard of an auger for conical burr grinder, are there any out of the box grinders that have that?


 My Ceado E92 has one.

Part No. 2. They are £5.92+VAT .......just sayin' ?


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

I have just ordered a Niche and wonder if there are any after market 58m portafilter holder for sale in the UK yet?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> I have just ordered a Niche and wonder if there are any after market 58m portafilter holder for sale in the UK yet?


 'Decent' do one.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

PPapa said:


> I've seen few folk and reviews saying that they couldn't tell a difference between EK and Niche. I'd like to do such test to see what they're doing and what they're tasting...


 Any outcome?

I did a comparison between my EK43, Versalab M3 and Niche. It wouldn't be fair for a number of reasons, main one is the EK and M3 are in a different league. Not saying the Niche is bad, it's actually very good. Also I used a light roast, which the EK and M3 shine with and aren't particularly suited to conicals. the M3 is a hybrid though but the conical burrs are more a pre-breaker to feed the flats.

My Niche is paired with a la Pav at my partners house and she prefers medium to dark espresso roasts. This suits it very well and we make some lovely flat whites.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Rhys said:


> Any outcome?
> I did a comparison between my EK43, Versalab M3 and Niche. It wouldn't be fair for a number of reasons, main one is the EK and M3 are in a different league. Not saying the Niche is bad, it's actually very good. Also I used a light roast, which the EK and M3 shine with and aren't particularly suited to conicals. the M3 is a hybrid though but the conical burrs are more a pre-breaker to feed the flats.
> My Niche is paired with a la Pav at my partners house and she prefers medium to dark espresso roasts. This suits it very well and we make some lovely flat whites.


I haven't had any offers .
How did you find a comparison?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

PPapa said:


> I haven't had any offers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 In musical terms, bass, middle and treble. Niche was muted and more body, M3 had clarity and body, EK was thinner, sweeter with clarity and less body. Ekspresso is always going to be different though. I'm sure with a darker roast the Niche will be better.

This was with an LSOL (can't remember which one). It was also unfair to compare them all as the price difference in grinders is quite large.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Rhys said:


> In musical terms, bass, middle and treble. Niche was muted and more body, M3 had clarity and body, EK was thinner, sweeter with clarity and less body. Ekspresso is always going to be different though. I'm sure with a darker roast the Niche will be better.
> 
> This was with an LSOL (can't remember which one). It was also unfair to compare them all as the price difference in grinders is quite large.


 Excuse my (probably) idiocy, but why does EK43 coffee taste so different? I understand the workflow is different but never understood why the coffee tastes different. Is it the vertically mounted burrs?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Cooffe said:


> Excuse my (probably) idiocy, but why does EK43 coffee taste so different? I understand the workflow is different but never understood why the coffee tastes different. Is it the vertically mounted burrs?


 start a new thread


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

lake_m said:


> 'Decent' do one.


 That's more like a DIY project from what I have seen..


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

PPapa said:


> I haven't had any offers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You're welcome to "pop" down any time ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee Fan Guy said:


> That's more like a DIY project from what I have seen..


 no aftermarket pf except the mods from decent

use it with the supplier cup ss intended , why is dosing into the pf ,on a grinder not designed to be dosed into a pf such am issue. takes 20 seconds to do.


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## Coffee Fan Guy (Jun 17, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> no aftermarket pf except the mods from decent
> 
> use it with the supplier cup ss intended , why is dosing into the pf ,on a grinder not designed to be dosed into a pf such am issue. takes 20 seconds to do.


 Agree - was just looking at what's out there.

I am about to post a very strange question on a new thread ( titled SBP recipe) - would love to read your input.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> use it with the supplier cup ss intended , why is dosing into the pf ,on a grinder not designed to be dosed into a pf such am issue. takes 20 seconds to do.


 As a newb to the world of Niche, I have to agree with you - I find it's a really easy workflow using the cup and straightforward to give the coffee a good stir before inverting into the portafilter. ?

I have tried directly into the portafilter and have to say I prefer grinding into the cup. I guess it all boils down to personal preference. ?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

The Niche output always benefits from a bloody good stir (evens out the grinds and kills any static) - this is best done in the SS cup (IMHO)


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

lake_m said:


> The Niche output always benefits from a bloody good stir (evens out the grinds and kills any static) - this is best done in the SS cup (IMHO)


 Excuse me but what is SS? 
Anyway, I've given up stirring in the cup. It's going to be turned upside down and then will need some sort of distribution to get rid of the perimeter gap, before tamping or levelling. 
So why do the same thing twice......me ? thinks.

I now use a levelling tool and don't tamp after. I think others are going down this route too.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

nicholasj said:


> Excuse me but what is SS?
> Anyway, I've given up stirring in the cup. It's going to be turned upside down and then will need some sort of distribution to get rid of the perimeter gap, before tamping or levelling.
> So why do the same thing twice......me ? thinks.
> 
> I now use a levelling tool and don't tamp after. I think others are going down this route too.


 Abrieviation for Stainless Steel sorry ?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I use a yoghurt pot with the bottom cut off for my La Pavoni pf. All I have to do is hold the pf under the chute of the Niche then. Stir with a '3 paperclips jammed into a cork' tool and tamp. Simples..


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Rhys said:


> I use a yoghurt pot with the bottom cut off for my La Pavoni pf. All I have to do is hold the pf under the chute of the Niche then. Stir with a '3 paperclips jammed into a cork' tool and tamp. Simples..


 Good idea....a cheaper option to the Decent which is a cool £50+ I think. Which yogurt pot fits please? Get the wife to add it on to the shopping list! ?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

nicholasj said:


> Good idea....a cheaper option to the Decent which is a cool £50+ I think. Which yogurt pot fits please? Get the wife to add it on to the shopping list!


You can get dosing tools for 58mm on eBay, AliExpress etc. They start from £4.

For example...

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F333268680611


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

nicholasj said:


> Good idea....a cheaper option to the Decent which is a cool £50+ I think. Which yogurt pot fits please? Get the wife to add it on to the shopping list! ?


 Now you're asking.. I've had it ages. It's an opaque plastic one (not white) and fits my 51mm basket perfectly while still leaving about 2" above so when I sit my pf on the round wooden bit on the Niche, the chute is just inside the top of the pot. I'll take a pic when I'm next at the gf's.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

I think that the new tampr shop that was advertised here also sells a dosing ring for £12. Might be worth a punt. I'm also guessing that @Rhys is an Oykos man so definitely gotta be one of those yogurt pots...


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Cooffe said:


> I think that the new tampr shop that was advertised here also sells a dosing ring for £12. Might be worth a punt. I'm also guessing that @Rhys is an Oykos man so definitely gotta be one of those yogurt pots...


 No, they're too squat. I only buy them when they are on special offer (I buy yoghurts based on whether they are on promotion as my gf would say.. Nice though.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Cooffe said:


> I think that the new tampr shop that was advertised here also sells a dosing ring for £12. Might be worth a punt. I'm also guessing that @Rhys is an Oykos man so definitely gotta be one of those yogurt pots...


 I didn't comment on that thread out of respect, but I'd rather people saved money. Spot two differences... 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000262793695.html


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Rhys said:


> No, they're too squat. I only buy them when they are on special offer (I buy yoghurts based on whether they are on promotion as my gf would say.. Nice though.


 I'm with you on that one.



PPapa said:


> I didn't comment on that thread out of respect, but I'd rather people saved money. Spot two differences...
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000262793695.html
> 
> View attachment 32846


 The one from AliExpress has more colour choices! Good spot though, I don't often think to look on AliExpress for coffee gear.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

It looks like most of the stuff from AliExpress ends up being resold on eBay, Amazon and some smaller websites.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I bought one of these a while back but just found that I couldn't catch the grinds properly, especially with the small steel bit sticking up under the spout, ended up making a bit of a mess and still had a gap around the perimeter of the basket anyway. So back to the supplied stainless steel cup.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

> Which yogurt pot fits please?


 You may find it is challenging to find a single serve plastic yoghurt cup/pot that is round anymore! The old version of yoghurt cups worked wonderfully; now, however, most of the small yoghurt pots I see on store shelves are soft & their sides squish too easily, but even worse, their shape is a rounded off or squarish, instead of 100% round... round is what we need for coffee funnelling!

In lieu of yoghurt cup, some small disposable drinking fountain cups (or "Dixie cups" paper cups) can be cut in a similar way & will work.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

PPapa said:


> I didn't comment on that thread out of respect, but I'd rather people saved money. Spot two differences...
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000262793695.html
> <img alt="2087202386_Screenshot2019-10-16at22_11_18.thumb.png.43d1dd908f9e2cb109c30723ea377953.png" data-fileid="32846" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_10/2087202386_Screenshot2019-10-16at22_11_18.thumb.png.43d1dd908f9e2cb109c30723ea377953.png" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Red & gold?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I spent a couple of months grinding into the portafilter with Niche. First thing I noticed is that some grinds come out of the end of the spout at near 90 degrees. Not much but it's noticeable around the grinder after several shots so I extended to the spout by 25mm using a tube made of several layers of aluminium foil. This also gave a bit more room to get a 58mm portafilter in with grinds going more central. I didn't have a stand so achieving that was still tricky. Then bought this funnel which is much like the Decent and fits well

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PLBCSDL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then went back to using the grinds cup to try various ways of using that. I'm inclined to feel that can give better shot consistency.

Talk of popcorning makes me smile. It originates from flat burr grinders were when beans are weighed in get bounced about with forces that exceed 40g on some grinders. That is what gets the grinds to flow. The popcorning is easy to limit by simply putting a weight on the beans but a different grind setting is still needed compared with the grinder used as supplied with it's hopper on. Some of that is down to the grinds coming out more compressed. Some of it isn't. The grinding action of a conical burr is entirely different especially on Niche where little to none is left in the grinds chamber. The burrs have their own built in auger hopper on or off. They wouldn't grind at all if they didn't have that.

All the main makers seem to fit to conical is an item that looks a little bit like a propeller. All it would do to Niche is probably speed up grinding a touch and that's probably all it does on the the commercial grinders. Sort of pre breaking arrangement really but not a fantastically efficient one as bean sizes vary. It might speed up Niche noticeably when elephant species beans are being ground. Those do take noticeably longer to grind due to their size.

John

-


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## Mbot (Oct 26, 2019)

Looks like a seriously impressive piece of keen - currently looking into getting one!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mbot said:


> Looks like a seriously impressive piece of keen - currently looking into getting one!


 It's great. There are a few here that don't like it but I just re-watched James Hoffmans excellent quick review on the grinder. He definitely "gets it" and seemed to love it. I actually see it quite often in other videos, so he obviously uses it. Plus there were quite a few Niches on trade stands at host being used by various companies. Not everyone likes it of course (there are a very small number of people on this forum who don't). There was a sort of "review" on this forum, more a post really from someone on here who really doesn't like it much...but I think James has been very fair.


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## Johey (Oct 12, 2019)

I just wonder for how long they will continue only selling it via Indiegogo.

Can you do it forever or are there any rules to when you have to found a company and sell on you own or through retailers?

i have one and didn't mind buying it through Indiegogo but just wonder about the business model...


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

It is a very good review @DaveC. James is very interesting to watch and kind a compelling at the same time. It would have persuaded me, but I bought mine before his review!?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Johey said:


> I just wonder for how long they will continue only selling it via Indiegogo.
> 
> Can you do it forever or are there any rules to when you have to found a company and sell on you own or through retailers?
> 
> i have one and didn't mind buying it through Indiegogo but just wonder about the business model...


 Don't know, not really familiar with how it works. Although I would imagine if you have 1 product and a lot of sales....it saves you having to do anything until you get time to breathe and start to put in place website payment systems and online shop etc.. However, I don't sell stuff, so I really have no idea.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I think he is up the creek on popcorning Dave, totally. The biggest difference between same burrs and the mazzer grinder that uses them with the hopper on is the fact that Niche for ever has a more less empty grind chamber. Just as comparing on flat that has an effect on grinding performance. Flat has the additional "problem" that the last few get bounced about at enormous pressures even when weighted - so high in fact that when the hopper is on it's bound to disturb beans at the bottom.

I suspect and the video shows it he has the same opinion as me - compromise compared with others and using them. I do think Niche could be improved in a couple of areas but that could have detrimental effects in other. Popcorning isn't one of them and if some one wants very easy to fix.  As usual doing the fix would probably improve taste. If some one said it did I'd be inclined to think they are imagining it or it would be so marginal that it wouldn't be worth the effort of more or less truly preventing it.

John

-


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

I agree, John. There are so few beans being popcorned that if anybody said they could taste the difference it would make to a shot made from a single dose, I'd be inclined to call them a liar.


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

The Slow Pour Supply Company in the U.S. (Texas) is selling the Niche Zero: https://www.slowpoursupply.co/niche-zero


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Lilybell2 said:


> The Slow Pour Supply Company in the U.S. (Texas) is selling the Niche Zero: https://www.slowpoursupply.co/niche-zero


 Yes, noticed the explosion of owners on r/coffee ?


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> Yes, noticed the explosion of owners on r/coffee ?


 I bought mine through Indiegogo. ? ?


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

nicholasj said:


> Excuse me but what is SS?
> Anyway, I've given up stirring in the cup. It's going to be turned upside down and then will need some sort of distribution to get rid of the perimeter gap, before tamping or levelling.
> So why do the same thing twice......me ? thinks.
> 
> I now use a levelling tool and don't tamp after. I think others are going down this route too.


 Yeah, I've recently switched to a leveling tool and have the height set so that it tamps as well. Since using the levelling tool my shots are coming out way more consistent on my naked pf, though I've also changed my WDT from a cocktail stick to a small whisk. I think I'll always use WDT as I love the ritual (some would call it faff!) of making espresso .


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Did my first full clean of the burr chamber today since getting it (6 months ago).

I got 0.75g out. Pretty impressive.

Although I also found a scratch on the inside of the chamber and somewhat more alarmingly these small bits of metal. For scale the longer thin one is about 8mm. They must have been disturbed by the clean as they were plenty small enough to go down the chute.

Anyone else have anything similar?









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Do you check your coffee before grinding.?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Stones & crap can be in the beans especially if you enjoy naturals.


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Do you check your coffee before grinding.?


I try to. I always fill up the cup by hand when weighing-in. But I can't guarantee that nothing gets by me, especially this small.

Would they just have settled on the bottom of the burr chamber some time ago, and then continuously missed by the sweepers, following (potentially) being thrown in with the beans a while back? As it seems pretty unlikely they would have been put in with my last grind before the clean.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

ashcroc said:


> Stones & crap can be in the beans especially if you enjoy naturals.


I'm about 1kg into Rocko Mountain, which I think is a natural

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The one thing we need to always do to protect our grinders is check the coffee. I tend to check as I fill the tight va tin slowly and again as I fill the single dosing containers and again when I fill the grinder.

Even then you can miss stuff. The metal bit looks like a small bit of label staple they somtimes use on sacks. Fortunately the metals are usually soft and the design of the Niche helps, so I doubt you have any burr damage.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I have never checked the beans I buy but may do from now onwards. I suppose there is more risk of debris if the beans are patio dried as opposed to raised beds! ??


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> I have never checked the beans I buy but may do from now onwards. I suppose there is more risk of debris if the beans are patio dried as opposed to raised beds! ??


 There is a risk of contamination in every type of bean, so no coffee is immune. Washed coffees tend to have less, although a bag staple can creep in and other things. The risk is higher when coffee is:



Sun dried


Low grade & commodity grade


Higher capacity roasting operation without a destoner


Most commercial roasters who roast larger volumes of coffee should have destoner and magnet trap, especially where the operations are more automated with computer control auto weigher baggers and the like.. *However, the ultimate responsibility is down to the user. It's your grinder and you must decide how much you check for contaminants.*

When roasting I only have a 1 kg, so the quantities are small enough to visually check. I check the green, for coffee coloured stuff, I check the roasted for stuff that's not coffee coloured. I check when I cool weigh and bag. In the house I check again when I weigh the beans out and a final check as I tip them slowly into the grinder....or bean cellars. That's 7 checks...does not guarantee I won't get something....but I haven't yet. Every year this sort of thing comes up and I stress that people must check their coffee.

I have even though of making a flat tray/something with a pour edge, or a folding thing like some chopping boards that fold and pour but smaller and made for coffee. Something where 20 or 30g of coffee sits completely flat so it can be visually scanned prior to placing it in grinder or bean cellar. When I used to use other grinders with black lids on the hopper I tipped into those 1 layer deep, so I could check.

P.S. The trend for lighter and lighter roasted coffee also carries with it increased risk, the lack of bean expansion and high density gives a less reliable separation of contaminants because the destoner has to be set for increased lift, with more chance of non coffee stuff being passed..

P.P.S. If it's not my own roasted coffee where I've checked so many times during roasting and bagging, I am super cautious to the point of being paranoid.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> There is a risk of contamination in every type of bean, so no coffee is immune. Washed coffees tend to have less, although a bag staple can creep in and other things. The risk is higher when coffee is:
> 
> Sun dried
> Low grade & commodity grade
> ...


Great tip with using the hopper lid. 
Let's hope you never reach check #8 investigating what caused the odd sound!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Great tip with using the hopper lid.
> Let's hope you never reach check #8 investigating what caused the odd sound!


 There are 3 types of people.



Those who have had foreign object through their grinder and not realised it


Others who have realised a foreign object has gone through the grinder


Those who are going to have a foreign object through the grinder (me at some point)


Often drying patio stones actually get ground up and people never realise. If I remember rightly one of the Niche tests was grinding foreign objects  If the object is hard enough, it would probably stop the Niche without chipping the burrs, if it's soft enough it would most likely pass through without damaging the burrs. The design of the Niche is quite good with respect to foreign objects and I suspect the person actually has no damage at all to their burrs.

Take a commercial grinder with immensely powerful motor and a screw/large piece of metal in the coffee, there is more likelihood of damage...


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## ElPaulse (Oct 6, 2017)

Just got my Niche and am just in love with the haptics and looks and baffled by the nice, low humming sound it makes when idling. I switched from the Baratza Sette and Virtuoso and it's like night and day, the Baratzas having that loud high pitched sound I always dreaded when grinding for my morning coffee.

Also a nice bonus: got some new wooden steam and hot water knobs for my Profitec Pro300 made of oak and they match the Niches oak parts perfectly.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Any suggestions on dialing in a new Niche?

Got my new Niche yesterday. Tried about 6 shots and all were terrible, suffering from the worst channelling I've ever seen.

18g dose in 18g IMS basket, WDT and levelled.

I'm going to get some cheap beans today and start coarse (20 after calibration) and go from there. Any other advice?

p.s - not a faulty unit as grind looks super consistent and v60 this morning was beautiful.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Any suggestions on dialing in a new Niche?
> 
> Got my new Niche yesterday. Tried about 6 shots and all were terrible, suffering from the worst channelling I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


 Light-medium roasts 18g VST for me are typically between the 8 and 13 marks, I've never been up to 20 for espresso.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

catpuccino said:


> Light-medium roasts 18g VST for me are typically between the 8 and 13 marks, I've never been up to 20 for espresso.


Ok, thanks. I was around 10 yesterday when it was going wrong, but having rewatched DaveC's video I think I may have unknowingly messed with the calibration. Will start again around 10 once I've nipped to the shop.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Any suggestions on dialing in a new Niche?
> 
> Got my new Niche yesterday. Tried about 6 shots and all were terrible, suffering from the worst channelling I've ever seen.
> 
> ...


 It would be super handy if you just give a tiny bit more information.... critical things would be, beans used, age of beans from roast date, shot time from starting pump, machine type, brew pressure and finish shot weight. otherwise any advice you get is worthless as people are working blind.

You could even stream a video straight to youtube (make it unlisted) and give us the link...that way you will get even more useful help.


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

I'm on 16 for some Brighton lanes from cc and pulls 1:2 nicely in 35 secs (with 6 secs pre infusion on the DB)

Found this mega easy to dial in considering I haven't touched espresso for a year or so. I started at 10 and worked my way up


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

All, thanks for your input. This morning I took it apart and back together again and things are much better. Obviously trying it out after a day of Christmas drinking wasn't the best idea!

Video link above and any feedback welcome, but I think I'm pretty much there now.

For completeness, Gaggia Classic set to 9 bar. Yesterday was Square mile medium/light roasted on 12/12. This morning some horrible Sainsbury's stuff just to get in the right ballpark then a Union roasted on 17/10. Only got one dose of the Square Mile left so will have to wait for my next Blue Coffee Box order to try out some really good stuff.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Problem solved...although I would recommend trying just a tamper.

http://coffeestuff.byethost12.com/2019/11/01/coffee-leveller-tamper/


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

I use a supplier from the lakes whose roast I would say is on the lighter side of med to medium. I usually grind his beans between 8 and 10 with a ratio of 17g in 35g out in around 35 sec including pre infusion of 6-7 seconds. I use an ECO Mechanika Slim set at just under 10 bar and a levelling Jack, but I also tamp.


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## brianlg (Dec 27, 2019)

I just ordered my niche zero. It looks like it's a good idea to calibrate it as soon as I get it? What tool will I need to unscrew and remove the burrs? Does it come with the grinder or will I need to order one? I saw DaveC unscrewing something. Thanks.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

brianlg said:


> I just ordered my niche zero. It looks like it's a good idea to calibrate it as soon as I get it? What tool will I need to unscrew and remove the burrs? Does it come with the grinder or will I need to order one? I saw DaveC unscrewing something. Thanks.


Just got mine and would definitely advise to closely follow DaveC's video before starting. I tried to wing it and royally messed things up.

I think everyone's espresso setting ends up being different, but for what it's worth mine is around 19 and V60 around 40.

The tool is a socket, I had one in a screwdriver set. Available from all DIY shops. Would be possible to use spanner but there's a chance of rounding off the nut.

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## brianlg (Dec 27, 2019)

Cool. In theory, would I need to unscrew and remove the burrs at all to do the initial calibration since there will be no coffee grinds to clean? Can I just rotate everything all the way to the left to calibrate and go from there? Or will I need to unscrew and remove the burrs anyways on the initial calibration?


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

As others have said, watch the video. But to answer the question, no you won't need to dismantle the burrs to calibrate. It's really easy and once done the markings will make more sense. Please don't obsess about the numbers. They are just an indication to help you. Everyone's will be different, at least marginally, since everyone's idea of exactly how much pressure to use when calibrating will be different. Once calibrated, the numbers will help you get repeatable settings for different beans etc. But bear in mind that they change a little according to the weather! (Literally!)


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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

Has the Niche Zero changed recently? I bought myself one as a Christmas gift and just received it. 
I watched DaveC's video and it seems the espresso and fine setting is inverted. My black adjustment ring also doesn't click and is attached to the silver hopper, unlike what it is on DaveC's model.
When I try to set my grind I have to stay around 17/18 - now my question, is this normal? Should I be doing something different?


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

My Niche doesn't click....I don't think they do. Most of my espresso setting are between 11 and 15. And I just move the hopper to change the settings. Looks like yours is fine.

Not sure if or why a recalibration is required. I haven't ever on mine but will do so when I give it a good burr clean.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Where is your white spot


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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

nicholasj said:


> My Niche doesn't click....I don't think they do. Most of my espresso setting are between 11 and 15. And I just move the hopper to change the settings. Looks like yours is fine. Not sure if or why a recalibration is required. I haven't ever on mine but will do so when I give it a good burr clean.


 I didn't either. I only found this thread and video two days after getting my grinder.

I'm still trying to get my grind setting right but my 17-19 seems awfully high compared to everyone else. I'm using 16g on a Nuova Simonelli Oscar II. Should I do a recalibration?



Jony said:


> Where is your white spot


I don't have one from what I can see :S


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm up around 21 to 23 for James Gourmet Simply Brazil with espresso. Decaf is around 9 or 10. Don't fret.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

nicholasj said:


> My Niche doesn't click....I don't think they do. Most of my espresso setting are between 11 and 15. And I just move the hopper to change the settings. Looks like yours is fine.
> Not sure if or why a recalibration is required. I haven't ever on mine but will do so when I give it a good burr clean.


I think they're just referring to the black adjustment ring which clicks when moved. The main hopper does not click of course.

Calibration isn't mandatory, but it helps you at least compare to what others are doing, and reduce the risk of you ever over tightening the settings.

I'm at 15-18 for most things. But that's for a 15g dose on a 15g VST basket. I'd be in the low 20s for the 21g basket for example.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

mayorcesar said:


> Has the Niche Zero changed recently? I bought myself one as a Christmas gift and just received it.
> I watched DaveC's video and it seems the espresso and fine setting is inverted. My black adjustment ring also doesn't click and is attached to the silver hopper, unlike what it is on DaveC's model.
> When I try to set my grind I have to stay around 17/18 - now my question, is this normal? Should I be doing something different?


Hasn't changed since DaveC's video I don't think. I got mine at Christmas too and initially got the calibration all wrong until Dave's video saved me.

The black ring clicks when you turn it by itself - holding only the black, not the silver.

When you turn it by the silver part it glides round, with no clicking.

Mine is around 16-20 for espresso, so your range sounds 'normal'; but there isn't really a normal range, everyone's seems to be different. As long as you're pulling good shots I'd say there's no need to fret.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Is that the spot I can see there on the photo? At the eight o clock position.


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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

lake_m said:


> Is that the spot I can see there on the photo? At the eight o clock position.


 Do you mean the little dot on the black ring?



KingoftheHeath said:


> Hasn't changed since DaveC's video I don't think. I got mine at Christmas too and initially got the calibration all wrong until Dave's video saved me.
> 
> The black ring clicks when you turn it by itself - holding only the black, not the silver.
> 
> ...


 Finally got the black ring to move by itself but took a lot of holding the hopper back. Maybe it's also just getting in the habit of it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Why are folks hung up about numbers. They are more or less irrelevant. They act as a point of reference and nothing more. Yes, in theory if you lined up 5 grinders and calibrated them all in a scientific way, the dot should be the same (exactly) on them all......good luck with that one! Just work from where your dot is and loosen or tighten as needs be. Forget the numbers!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'm on a setting of 6. It seems to have drifted down from around 10-12 on my usual beans as the burrs have run in. Also now have things as I like - consistent timed shots. I press the button on a DB for a 30 sec shot and then check weigh the shot. I had 43.2g come out so often I checked that the scales hadn't developed some sort of odd fault. Generally I may get 2g variation which is irrelevant. It's somewhat dependent on how level the grinds are after being transferred from the cup and what I do with them to get them level. It's taken me months to sort that out mostly due to trying all sorts that wouldn't work out so well.

I cleaned it out after around a month of use and haven't since. In my case very low levels inside the grind chamber and most on the outside of it's exit at the top of the spout. Still low really and once built up it stays there. it also builds up quickly when removed. I needed a cocktail stick to do that  might need a kango hammer now. I have been thinking about cleaning it recently.

Settings on other beans have ranged up to 15 or so. I have noticed a bit of precise dialling difficulty when I change beans. In my case it back and forth between oily and what could be caused normal and may need a setting change of 1 but usually less. It's gone in a couple of shots.

John

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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

So I just calibrated the way DaveC explained. Turns out I had no reason to worry about anything. All going well now


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Just mentioning. If these are brand new for Christmas they'll need about 5kg of beans to run through to break in the burrs. The grind adjustment may get lower. My espresso range is between 8 - 12 generally dependent on bean.


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## ThePeginator (Dec 17, 2019)

Bit of a random one.

Is the silver cup that comes with the NZ, is it sized to fit neatly inside a 58mm portafilter? I.e you grind into the cup, then place the portafilter upside down, with the rim of the cup fitting just inside the edges of the basket, then turn the whole thing over to empty / distribute the grinds into the basket?

I'm trying to find a cup/container to do exactly that at the moment and struggling, although I'm guessing you can't get it separately...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ThePeginator said:


> Bit of a random one.
> 
> Is the silver cup that comes with the NZ, is it sized to fit neatly inside a 58mm portafilter? I.e you grind into the cup, then place the portafilter upside down, with the rim of the cup fitting just inside the edges of the basket, then turn the whole thing over to empty / distribute the grinds into the basket?
> 
> ...


Yes, exactly that. You could ask them if they won't sell one to you?


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

Acaia (yes, the company that makes that expensive scale) makes a dosing cup for the 58mm portafilter:

https://acaia.co/products/acaia-portafilter-dosing-cup


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Last few days i have noticed the motor sound of my Niche was changed. Can't describe to what but just different than usual. Burr carrier was stiffened too and i thought there might be grounds between threads again I thought it is time of the month to clean it up. I dismantled everything as usual cleaned up all threads when i put back everything it was stiffer to turn definitely not cross threaded just stiffer. On a close inspection on threads i have noticed this (see pictures) how is your grinder's threads looks like? It has a weird play as well like left to right when i press on on adjustment ring. When there is no upper burr placed, adjusting ring smoothly goes up and down but when i placed the burr i can't even move it from 10 to 20 without my fingers slipping on it. Only way to turn it is to push down slightly then turn it. Also noticed having scratches on top burr carrier. Cant remember if they were there. I bought it last june. Any ideas what to do?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Just checking, but are the springs missing from the picture or they are not there at all?

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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I have removed them to inspect too normally they are there


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

It is just weird to have that deformation on threads just above both springs.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'd have thought that the only way that could happen is getting the burr carrier in and out. Not use. I've been using mine for some time now and only cleaned it out once a couple of months after I started using it, Just curiosity really. Over 12 months now. I wonder if the calibration has slipped so will be dismantling shortly so may as well clean it.

It would be interesting to see a photo of the sides of the burr carrier parts that could cause this.

John

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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Inspector said:


> Last few days i have noticed the motor sound of my Niche was changed. Can't describe to what but just different than usual. Burr carrier was stiffened too and i thought there might be grounds between threads again I thought it is time of the month to clean it up. I dismantled everything as usual cleaned up all threads when i put back everything it was stiffer to turn definitely not cross threaded just stiffer. On a close inspection on threads i have noticed this (see pictures) how is your grinder's threads looks like? It has a weird play as well like left to right when i press on on adjustment ring. When there is no upper burr placed, adjusting ring smoothly goes up and down but when i placed the burr i can't even move it from 10 to 20 without my fingers slipping on it. Only way to turn it is to push down slightly then turn it. Also noticed having scratches on top burr carrier. Cant remember if they were there. I bought it last june. Any ideas what to do?
> 
> View attachment 35367
> 
> ...


 Def not there originally? Looks like the tool used to machine the pockets has caught the thread.

Haven't dismantled mine yet as only had it a few weeks, but would imagine it would take some force to do that just by removing the burr carrier, not to mention keeping it fairly uniform?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Inspector - if I were you, I'd report that to Niche, hello at niche coffee.co.uk, as it's surely not normal.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Not sure if it looks cross threaded how old is your Niche


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Jony said:


> Not sure if it looks cross threaded how old is your Niche


 That's not cross threaded. It might happen if the burr carrier rocked side to side in use. I don't think it can near the top of the thread as the adjuster is screwed in when it is used. So I suspect it has been done when the burr carrier is removed / replaced. It's not the easiest of things to lift out. To do it in use the adjuster would need to just be engaged with one thread pitch right at the top of the hole in the body. Sound a mite coarse to me for any adjustment that would be used in practice. Can't say as I noticed how many threads are engaged over the grind settings that might be used but would hope it's more than one even when people are grinding for different methods.

John

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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Thanks for replies. It is 7 months old. I look after my gear like apple of my eye  this was the 4th time i have cleaned since june. And everytime i wipe clean threads and re grease them. When i inspect adjustment ring yesterday i didn't see any deformation on threads.

I will send an email to niche later today to ask what's happened or happening.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I can't see the slight radius. Affecting anything?

Does the top burr carrier move up and down freely when inserted, can you push it down all the way with fingers against springs before adjustment ring fitted?

Does the adjustment ring screw in and move freely all the way in and out with no top burr inserted?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Inspector said:


> Thanks for replies. It is 7 months old. I look after my gear like apple of my eye  this was the 4th time i have cleaned since june. And everytime i wipe clean threads and re grease them. When i inspect adjustment ring yesterday i didn't see any deformation on threads.
> 
> I will send an email to niche later today to ask what's happened or happening.


 You have a bruised thread.Something round has pressed into it or rubbed against it so there is localised damage adjacent to the springs - the ears on the carrier or anything sticking out of them might do that but hard to see how. I can't help wondering if it's removal or replacement of the burr carrier, most likely when replacing and things not being level as the bruising goes more or less all of the way up the thread in the body - in use the adjuster will be covering more of that.

Not cleaned mine for 12months plus now - curious now so suspect I'll be cleaning it shortly.

John

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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Thats the thing. Apart from locking threads nothing is touching to that deformed area. Upper burr carrier has plastic spiggots which sits on springs and they dont have a scratch on them. What i am thinking is constant upward pressure on springs caused that deformation on that area. And everytime i cleaned it i could easily calibrate it to same spot, i know it is same spot because i marked the adjustment ring with a marker.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

If it's been cross threaded that should be easy to spot. Just look around the start of the thread. Rather than running in a nice even spiral there will be obvious distortion and it will have been harder to turn almost immediately the threads engaged. If any one has that happen stop immediately.

When I had mine apart I did what most grinders need. Rotate the wrong way and feel for when the adjuster drops in. That way things will be level when it's screwed in. Unlike say a mazzer it doesn't take much initial pressure on Niche.

John

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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I can't see the slight radius. Affecting anything?
> 
> Does the top burr carrier move up and down freely when inserted, can you push it down all the way with fingers against springs before adjustment ring fitted?
> 
> Does the adjustment ring screw in and move freely all the way in and out with no top burr inserted?


 Yes and yes

After every cleaning i did push the top burr carrier down to see if it is moving freely on springs before i screw adjustment ring down.

As i said it just happened recently.

Adjustment ring also screws freely when the top burr carrier not in place. But when i put everything together it feels stiff like it has never been before. I only do espresso and occasional aeropress so use settings 13 and 20 only. It has been a very easy life for it so far


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I agree with Dave, the small nicks in the threads look as if the tooling for the hole / recess has touched the thread but is insignificant.

The top thread on the other hand looks as if it has been turned over , more like a "rolled" thread. It is difficult to see how that could occur turning the adjuster by hand.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Must admit I'm intrigued. One thing I noticed was the fit of the burr carrier in the "hole" and thought good for you Mr Niche.

If El ....... is correct but doesn't look like it to me it's been cross threaded and that could cause the other marks maybe some scoring down in the plane bore of the the hole as well. As to force needed to distort a thread like that - not that much really but if some one has done it before I would have thought they would notice the change.

Maybe a photo of the start of the thread on the adjuster will clear that aspect up - side on. If distorted there it's been cross threaded and may well be a lot easier to see.

All I have noticed on mine is the need to adjust finer and finer. Gone on so long and over many batches of the same bean it can't be due to them. Might be due to burrs running in, calibration ring moving or traces of grinds getting between the adjuster and burr carrier.

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

If you ever pass my way, feel free to bring the grinder round....I'd be curious to see what's going on.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> I agree with Dave, the small nicks in the threads look as if the tooling for the hole / recess has touched the thread but is insignificant.
> 
> The top thread on the other hand looks as if it has been turned over , more like a "rolled" thread. It is difficult to see how that could occur turning the adjuster by hand.


 That might be the case. True.

But still don't know why motor noise has changed like it is rubbing on sth( even without burrs attached) and calibration mark has moved to four clicks backwards when calibrating and ring has stiffened.

Thing is, just before xmas i binned its box thinking i wont sell it nor sending it for repair anytime soon


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Have you tried turning the shaft with your fingers ? can you feel any resistance or a sense of touching and releasing ? Also can you feel any vertical or transverse movement in the shaft?

I would contact Niche explaining your findings and ask if they have any thoughts or suggestions also have they come across this before.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There is another possibility. More probable in some ways as well and not the cause of the current problem. The bruising may well have been there since day one and happened during manufacture. There are a limited number of ways of making a part like that. If this is the case they probable don't matter. I've already mentioned the easiest way to see if the adjuster has been cross threaded.

On Niche I haven't noticed any comments about lubricating the threads. Certain greases are mentioned on others but having owned a brand new mazzer I wonder. Plain unflavoured lip salve is likely to be a good choice and has also been suggested in the past. Easy to get hold of as well. Just a very thin smear.  One stick will could last a life time.

John

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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I have contacted with Niche. Lets see how we get on.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> Have you tried turning the shaft with your fingers ? can you feel any resistance or a sense of touching and releasing ? Also can you feel any vertical or transverse movement in the shaft?
> 
> I would contact Niche explaining your findings and ask if they have any thoughts or suggestions also have they come across this before.


 Yes i did try that last night there was no movement on shaft itself. When i tried to turn the shaft it turns with a bit of resistance which i think normal.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I suspect that if people look more may find they have one or maybe one on each side









I'de prepared to say it is down to manufacture. Chances of there being 2 probably depends on exactly how they are made. I don't think it will make any difference to use anyway and hasn't on mine. Saw a bit of sloppy work that doesn't matter *at all *and nothing amiss.

No grinds in the thread really other than bits from when it was taken apart. Nice change from others. I wiped the threads over and the top of the grinder and lid with IPA. Oil gets on things in my case.  The lid shines again now as does the scale and the hopper. I do wipe the hopper now and again which keeps it fairly shiny. There is a tiny bit of damage to the end of the E on fine. I didn't lubricate the thread after looking at the parts. Can't make my mind up so left as is. Some loose uncompacted grinds in the cavity in the underside of the grinds flinger. Not much though - tip of a teaspoon. No signs of wear on the flinger. Some on the base of the grind chamber but I suspect there wont be any more now. Some how calibration had moved by near 3 dots. My ring isn't easy to turn and as others had problems moving this on some early ones I've avoided it - not that easy to get at anyway. Couldn't see any reason for this to happen. This is after putting some figure in excess off 10kg of beans through it.

I haven't cleaned the metal work at the top of the spout out, It needed a cocktail stick to get that out before. Some has come out due to internal cleaning.

John

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Think I saw a comment about the feet rotating - better option than them cracking so probably done that way to avoid any chanced of that happening.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

ajohn said:


> I suspect that if people look more may find they have one or maybe one on each side
> 
> View attachment 35381
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the picture. Seems like your one has that deformation as well just above spring holes. So this leads to one thing. It has happened on manufacturing process when they were drilling the holes and was already there when i got the grinder. So i shouldn't worry about these.

But i dont understand where that stiffness coming from. My fingers literally did slide on the adjustment ring when i was trying to change the grind setting. And all of a sudden calibration mark moved by near 4 clicks.

I told james from Niche as well, i will open it up later this evening and will give threads one more good wipe inspect and re grease. Will let you know how i get on.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Inspector said:


> Thanks for the picture. Seems like your one has that deformation as well just above spring holes. So this leads to one thing. It has happened on manufacturing process when they were drilling the holes and was already there when i got the grinder. So i shouldn't worry about these.
> 
> But i dont understand where that stiffness coming from. My fingers literally did slide on the adjustment ring when i was trying to change the grind setting. And all of a sudden calibration mark moved by near 4 clicks.
> 
> I told james from Niche as well, i will open it up later this evening and will give threads one more good wipe inspect and re grease. Will let you know how i get on.


 I suspect the holes etc aren't drilled. Could be but there are other ways. If I were you I would look very carefully for thread distortion. I suggested the adjustment ring side on but having looked at it not totally sure that would distort. That maybe ok but the threads could be distorted in the hole. The problem is that it doesn't take much distortion but it can usually be seen on the peaks of the thread especially where they start to engage with each other.  You might need a magnifying glass to see it. Depends on the clearance between the threads.

I didn't succeed in finding when the adjuster dropped in by starting of winding out when I was screwing it back in - this still managed to get the threads level though. It's something that needs care on all grinders.

John

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## Jnl82 (Dec 25, 2019)

I just got Niche Zero and so far loving the result and the taste of the coffee. But I do have a question about a minor issue I noticed when I closely looked at the grinder while it is operating.

As you can see in the video below, when the burr turns, the center hex bolt looks like it is not perfectly aligned. It is not centered so you can see that it wobbles a bit side to side. Otherwise, I think the burr itself looks aligned in the middle. Is this an issue?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sanpAGBho5F7eaFJ6

Thanks.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

No


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

It's normal I think, happens on mine. More to the point, if DaveC says it's not an issue then it's not an issue 

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Jnl82 said:


> I just got Niche Zero and so far loving the result and the taste of the coffee. But I do have a question about a minor issue I noticed when I closely looked at the grinder while it is operating.
> 
> As you can see in the video below, when the burr turns, the center hex bolt looks like it is not perfectly aligned. It is not centered so you can see that it wobbles a bit side to side. Otherwise, I think the burr itself looks aligned in the middle. Is this an issue?
> 
> ...


 Totally normal, very common on any number of grinders. FWIW my NZ does this too and have no alignment issues.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Quick update with my issue.

I have removed adjustment ring and cleaned it very very well back to its factory condition as well as threads on grinder itself. I have screwed them together it went down all the way but didnt still feel right. Then i put back the upper burr carrier, screwed it back down again quite stiff on last turn especially starts from past 30 towards 20s. I didnt screw it down more i removed the adjustment ring cleaned the threads once more as there were metal burrs like fine powder. I had a close look on adjustment ring and i noticed sharp edge on very top of thread. It was very sharp that it did split open my index finger skin when i rub on it.

With a fine sand paper i tried to sand it down slightly. Not much just few little passes on it. It wasn't as sharp as before anymore.

Then i thought maybe i should try oil rather than silicon grease. I rubbed couple drops of olive oil just on the adjustment ring especially on the part where i sanded very slightly.

I screwed it down without burr carrier attached, just to see if oil made a difference. A bit of back and forth between 30 and 0 mark (where it was stiff ) voila! It became quite smooth again. I attached burr carrier and tried it once more and no problems. Even my original calibration dot stopped on calibration mark again as it should be.

I cleaned up threads again as there were a bit of metal burr. I am attaching few pictures of it.

Motor noise is still different than it used to be. But as i said on my previous post, there is no play at all on shaft whatsoever.

James from Niche asked me if i can send the grinder back to them for inspection so they would fix it or send me brand new grinder. He assured me to get it done one way or another. Very quick replies to emails as well.

So i will let him know and will hold on to send the grinder to them for now but i will keep and eye on it following months.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It looks like damage near or at the start of the thread to me. Made my mind up about something. I'll lubricate mine as well but with lipslave. The usual silicone grease is not much use for metal on metal and pressure. I do have some food safe that is but I'll try lipsalve as people have used that in the past. It's ummmm safer in some ways - I could even stick it on my lips.

My recalibration hasn't behaved as expected so aught to have another look anyway.

John

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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

that damaged part is at the end of the thread. because it screws from bottom to top.

Try to clean threads on both parts really well. your calibration should behave normal then.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

When screwing things in it's the start of the thread that can get damaged by cross threading. Usually when that happens several thread pitches are messed up. Not in your case though.

The grinder is super clean but there could be another reason why the change to calibration hasn't done what I expected. I'll find out when I do my morning drink.  If it is that the shot will have to go down the sink. A bit unusual for me.

John

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## blankets (Feb 17, 2019)

Hi. Does anyone have any steps to replace the spring, to prevent the coarser creep?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

blankets said:


> Hi. Does anyone have any steps to replace the spring, to prevent the coarser creep?


 When did you buy the grinder from Niche, or when did the previous owner purchase if bought used?


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Inspector said:


> that damaged part is at the end of the thread. because it screws from bottom to top.
> 
> Try to clean threads on both parts really well. your calibration should behave normal then.


 A quick question, how many times have you removed the adjustment ring? I'm thinking most of us (ahem self included) the number is one (or less) ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

The Black ring (none) did you mean that one?


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Agentb said:


> A quick question, how many times have you removed the adjustment ring? I'm thinking most of us (ahem self included) the number is one (or less) ?


 I have removed adjustment ring fully prior to problem 3 times in total. (Whenever i did cleaning) Now probably 10


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## blankets (Feb 17, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> When did you buy the grinder from Niche, or when did the previous owner purchase if bought used?


 Hi Dave. Around March last year. James sent me a new spring today.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

blankets said:


> Hi Dave. Around March last year. James sent me a new spring today.


 That should instantly solve the issue.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've noticed the need for finer and finer with use on the bean I use most of the time. Always the same roaster and the setting is likely to be the same between batches. Inclined to put it down to the burrs running in but not recalibrated often enough to see if there is some other cause. I've found calibration can't be checked once beans have been used.

Might this be down to this spring. Mine is older than the one mentioned? The calibration ring isn't that easy to move either. First time I used it can't remember that. That was twice early on.

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> I've noticed the need for finer and finer with use on the bean I use most of the time. Always the same roaster and the setting is likely to be the same between batches. Inclined to put it down to the burrs running in but not recalibrated often enough to see if there is some other cause. I've found calibration can't be checked once beans have been used.
> 
> Might this be down to this spring. Mine is older than the one mentioned? The calibration ring isn't that easy to move either. First time I used it can't remember that. That was twice early on.
> 
> ...


 How many Kg gone through it now John?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> How many Kg gone through it now John?


 10kg plus but not that much plus. 3 bags usually don't last 1 month, Imperial so under 250g. I'd need to count bills in my trash folder to be more accurate. Shifted from around 11 to 6 on my usual MM. Seems odd at times and I have wondered about marking to show where I have set the calibration ring. Another bean, thought probably around 15 turned out to be 10. Latest bean light medium roast 0 or may finish up set 1 or 2. From Rave, LSOL type thing.

I've been wondering as drift to finer usually happens towards the end of a batch or can. But not convinced that's happening when I get a new batch. This has happened over several. It gets lower and lower.

Recently as I had it apart again I checked the last calibration. It was out but need to make sure I put the same pressure on the adjuster.

How time flies - arrived here on 30th Nov 2018.

The calibration ring isn't easy to move by hand as well. Might be down to where it's gripped.

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It finally settles down at 15 to 20kg, of coffee but of course the change from 10-15kg is much smaller and from 15-20 very small. Just those burrs breaking in.

P.S. Not burnt out yet then


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I just asked what happened if the motor was overloaded.  There other things in motors and gearboxes that can wear out. No signs of either here. I don't think the gear noise has changed yet. Not easy to hear anyway.

The calibration ring is much harder to move for some reason but I only used it twice in 2018 and again much more recently.

Anyway I was asking about this spring needed on a newer grinder than mine.

John

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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> It finally settles down at 15 to 20kg, of coffee but of course the change from 10-15kg is much smaller and from 15-20 very small. Just those burrs breaking in.
> 
> P.S. Not burnt out yet then


 Not yet but it will!!


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Are WPM China still making these for Niche?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

NikonGuy said:


> Not yet but it will!!


 My problems is a creep to coarser might explain an oddity I have noticed that doesn't fit in with burrs running in,

 Anyway nothing is certain and all sorts of things can be done with motors and while one might look much like another they can be rather different.

John

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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

ajohn said:


> My problems is a creep to coarser might explain an oddity I have noticed that doesn't fit in with burrs running in,
> 
> Anyway nothing is certain and all sorts of things can be done with motors and while one might look much like another they can be rather different.
> 
> ...


 Vibration may be the issue here...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

NikonGuy said:


> Vibration may be the issue here...


 No idea. I just want to hear more about coarseness creep.  Dave seems to be in take the pea mood  due to a reasonable question I asked long ago.

John

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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

NikonGuy said:


> Not yet but it will!!


 Commercial motors aren't all that. A cheap motor that's fit for purpose will do just fine. The reason commercial grinders need big powerful motors is because of their intended use, (almost continuous). They will last longer but buying a commercial grinder because it will last longer is crazy. For better grind quality, ok. There's no reason to think the motor will fail when it's used for a few shots a day, but if it does it's cheap and easy to replace. We'll all be looking at the new shiny grinders with bigger burrs, better mounting, better alignment, anti-static coatings, variable speed etc etc in the future and selling our "grinders that last forever" on for a huge loss when they're obsolete anyway.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> Commercial motors aren't all that. A cheap motor that's fit for purpose will do just fine. The reason commercial grinders need big powerful motors is because of their intended use, (almost continuous). They will last longer but buying a commercial grinder because it will last longer is crazy. For better grind quality, ok. There's no reason to think the motor will fail when it's used for a few shots a day, but if it does it's cheap and easy to replace. We'll all be looking at the new shiny grinders with bigger burrs, better mounting, better alignment, anti-static coatings, variable speed etc etc in the future and selling our "grinders that last forever" on for a huge loss when they're obsolete anyway.


 The commercial grinder motors aren't that well rated. Nothing like 100%. Dave may have passed the comment about burning out because I am grinding light roasts.

Say something did happen to Niche as parts do wear out on all grinders. We've been assured that parts wont cost that much. Burrs and body wearing out - unlikely other than letters getting knocked off which could be addressed. Wear and tear marks largely depend on how well things are looked after.

Not much point at mentioning motor makers as they may well not be the maker of even an Italian grinder. Motors are rather specialised and have a number of characteristics that aren't obvious.

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> No idea. I just want to hear more about coarseness creep.  Dave seems to be in take the pea mood  due to a reasonable question I asked long ago.
> 
> John
> 
> -


 Don't remember the question John, send me a pm briefly and clearly explain what's happening.


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## multicoloredUltracentri (Feb 11, 2020)

tohenk2 said:


> Oh - BTW the grindcup that came with my Niche is 113gr. The scale @DavecUK is using in the video's -I have the same one- only goes to 100gr. I have not found a way to get it to tare to 0gr with the cup on. It just refuses to operate &#8230; I used/use my Acaia, but stopped weiging output. The retention is that constant and minimal.


 Hi - I've been searching the forum (and the web) to try to find the name of the scale that you and @DavecUK use, but I can't find it. Would you mind posting the name (and a link if you have it)? Thanks!


----------



## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

multicoloredUltracentrifug said:


> Hi - I've been searching the forum (and the web) to try to find the name of the scale that you and @DavecUK use, but I can't find it. Would you mind posting the name (and a link if you have it)? Thanks!


I'm pretty sure it's not available anymore.


----------



## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

I'm pretty sure as well this particular model is not in production anymore. I still have it, but I don't use it ...


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

It's a "smart weigh" model IPS100.

https://www.amazon.ca/Smart-Weigh-Digital-Backlit-Personal/dp/B018GQS4YI


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

tohenk2 said:


> It's a "smart weigh" model IPS100.
> 
> https://www.amazon.ca/Smart-Weigh-Digital-Backlit-Personal/dp/B018GQS4YI


 I don't think so as I understand Dave's will weigh more than 100g.

Why anyway. I some ways 0.01g is pointless due to single bean weights and there are plenty of small thin scales about. Actually real accuracy doesn't matter just repeatability These have proved to be popular

https://www.amazon.co.uk/LinGear-Electronic-Kitchen（0-1g-Multifunction-Measurement/dp/B07Q7NBW88/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?keywords=3kg+scales&qid=1582142447&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyUEwxM0tHMFVNMzlPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTM0MjQzMlA5QVJBSExJN0lKVSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUExMDEyNjM1M1M4RFJRTFhTU1hSMyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Also going on examples I have seen are pretty accurate. 3kg is likely to meet all coffee needs. 600g can run into problems. 1kg may prove ok for an espresso machine.

John

-


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Similar to what I have, except mine has USB to recharge batteries. I single dose with the Niche and fits under my portafilter fine to measure shots. Doesn't have a timer but for the times i need it i use my phone, microwave ir the old fashion way. One thousand and one, one thousand and two.........

Phidlance Kitchen Scales, Digital Food Scales with Bowls, USB Rechargeable Weighing Baking Cooking Scales with Accurate Precision, 3000g/0.1g, Tara PCS Function, Unite g ct DWT ozt oz gn lb tl ml https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07V788JJJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_FpJtEbWN468KX


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

ajohn said:


> I don't think so as I understand Dave's will weigh more than 100g.
> 
> Why anyway. I some ways 0.01g is pointless due to single bean weights and there are plenty of small thin scales about. Actually real accuracy doesn't matter just repeatability These have proved to be popular
> 
> ...


 - Dave has a "trick" to tare with a weight over 100gr.

- This one does not seem to be for sale anymore, so your point that there are other scales around is indeed the way to go. And yes, having a 0.01gram resolution can seem too much in some ways. Certainly if the real resolution and repeatabilty seems to be not even 0.5gram. (I've got a AWS scale that is horrible in that aspect.) Could still be enough, but just feels ... not ok.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I have some tough weight really good still going after 3 years


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

ajohn said:


> I don't think so as I understand Dave's will weigh more than 100g.
> 
> Why anyway. I some ways 0.01g is pointless due to single bean weights and there are plenty of small thin scales about. Actually real accuracy doesn't matter just repeatability These have proved to be popular
> 
> ...


 I've got these, I use them for everything including bread making. They've been dropped, spilled on multiple times and not a single issue. Batteries only last about 8 months but that's no biggie


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

tohenk2 said:


> - Dave has a "trick" to tare with a weight over 100gr.
> 
> - This one does not seem to be for sale anymore, so your point that there are other scales around is indeed the way to go. And yes, having a 0.01gram resolution can seem too much in some ways. Certainly if the real resolution and repeatabilty seems to be not even 0.5gram. (I've got a AWS scale that is horrible in that aspect.) Could still be enough, but just feels ... not ok.


 The repeatability of the style I linked to is good according to users. Linearity so so but not usually needed. I did so generally use these - not that I need to now. Oh how much things have gone up.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BR35YV4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The makers provide a spec for them and as expected they aren't perfect. Getting anything better would cost rather a lot more and instructions might say leave on for 1/2hr before use and ambient temperature must be within x and y. Definitely at this level if they register to 0.01g. Pay even more and some aspects of that might not matter any more.

There is a crazy review on the scale I linked to. Some on adding drops of water and they are not registering - it's autozeroing as never intended to weigh at this level so thinks something is changing and corrects. A drop out of a dropper is circa 1/100 of a gram. They are low cost general purpose laboratory scales. I can get them to misbehave by gently putting single beans on them. They are ok when they have the sort of range of weight they are meant to have on them. If I wonder about a reading when I drop a bean in I press on them and allow them to resettle. So far over many beans it's down to a bean with an odd weight.

The 2 things that need consideration for coffee scales is settling time and the auto turn off time. 0.01g really isn't needed and if dave's scales were thoroughly checked out for that level of accuracy they wouldn't measure up. Some that did would probably come with a draft shield. I very much doubt if Acaia scales would either.

They can all need recalibrating at times as the strain gauge they use in them can deform over time. Low capacity ones such as 100g may deform due to bumps and knocks or even putting too much on them.  Drug dealers etc sometimes fork out for a Japanese make that is reckoned to be more robust - they cost a lot more but are still pocketable.

John

-


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

I just bought £3 jewellery scales off eBay. 
0.1g-500g

They happily sit on the drip tray. have been soaked many times and keep going.

They are also dead on accurate from testing with a range of virtually new coins with exact known weights.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just caught sight of this German review from some guy with funny hair...reminiscent of Frodo Baggins. There is a link to written review

https://kaffeemacher.ch/niche-zero-test/

and a Video if your Germans up to it, otherwise cc autotranslate is your friend


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## ElPaulse (Oct 6, 2017)

Watched it yesterday. Nice review, and interesting data on particle size distribution. Would be interesting to see how it compares with and without the NFC disk. 
They have a lot of in depth videos on gear and general coffee knowledge. Nice resource if you speak German. 
Also their coffee is very good. Especially from the Nicaragua farm Santa Rita which they co-own.


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## Johey (Oct 12, 2019)

Bit funny that this guy believes that the switch should be always on and you just on/off the grinder by opening and closing the lid...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Johey said:


> Bit funny that this guy believes that the switch should be always on and you just on/off the grinder by opening and closing the lid...


 That's pretty much what I do. I guess I wouldn't if there were small children around to post pennies in the throat, or a work colleague learning to juggle marbles ...but I'm the only one who goes near it during the day.


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## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

I thought that I would post a pic of the "NFC" disk that I made using a plastic lid similar to a Pringles lid and a pair of scissors. Took 10 minutes and works nicely.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Headgoboomboom said:


> I thought that I would post a pic of the "NFC" disk that I made using a plastic lid similar to a Pringles lid and a pair of scissors. Took 10 minutes and works nicely.
> 
> View attachment 36767


 Only 10 minutes work but hours once it disintegrates to clean the burrs ! I think I'll wait for the Niche one just in case ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Jesus Blue peter eat your heart out.?


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## lucas (Nov 14, 2018)

How do you order the NFC disk?

Email [email protected]?


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## Johey (Oct 12, 2019)

lucas said:


> How do you order the NFC disk?
> 
> Email [email protected]?


 That's the latest statement from Niche (10th Feb):

"We plan to have the NFC disk available to order early next month, and we will post all the details on Indiegogo and our social media when we have them."

i think we just need to be a bit patient and wait for further updates...


----------



## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

thought I saw in some earlier posts that the machines and/or NFC disc comes from China. So (if correct) in the light of things at the moment could be sometime.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TonyJoe said:


> thought I saw in some earlier posts that the machines and/or NFC disc comes from China. So (if correct) in the light of things at the moment could be sometime.


 Why is that?


----------



## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Why is that?


 Maybe because of measures in place to control the coronavirus?


----------



## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

thusband said:


> Maybe because of measures in place to control the coronavirus?


I think China have stopped all/most exports?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> thusband said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe because of measures in place to control the coronavirus?
> ...


 Really I hadn't heard. Waste of time because I can't see how it would survive for any length of time on non food goods. Your next letter from the postman could have the virus. I personally believe efforts to stop the virus spreading will be about as effective as a chocolate fireguard as it's so like flu or the common cold. The media are really whipping the fear level up about this. Also misusing statistics and this also frightens people, the % death rate being one heavily misused stat.

Trouble is some have lots to gain by the whipping up of the fear level...


----------



## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Really I hadn't heard. Waste of time because I can't see how it would survive for any length of time on non food goods. Your next letter from the postman could have the virus. I personally believe efforts to stop the virus spreading will be about as effective as a chocolate fireguard as it's so like flu or the common cold. The media are really whipping the fear level up about this. Also misusing statistics and this also frightens people, the % death rate being one heavily misused stat.
> Trouble is some have lots to gain by the whipping up of the fear level...


It's been in the news so you should have heard? Just in case you don't know the backstory; they've stopped exports because of a thing called 'Coronna virus' - there's loads online about it if you need to read up.


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I imagined they'd have been loaded into a shipping container and started slowly making their way over here months ago.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> It's been in the news so you should have heard? Just in case you don't know the backstory; they've stopped exports because of a thing called 'Coronna virus' - there's loads online about it if you need to read up.


 I'd appreciate a few links that show china has stopped exports of goods like grinders, electronics and widgets. I was aware of the thing called the Corona virus, you need to improve your reading skills

?


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

China will never stop exports no matter what, because that is a lot of lost revenue.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jony said:


> China will never stop exports no matter what, because that is a lot of lost revenue.


 Let's wait for the links.. .he said there is loads on line about exports. My web browser or cookies must be screening them out.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Given the dramatic reduction in pollution above China we can assume production is reduced. If they are making less, they will export less. I'm sure they'll get back up to speed as soon as they can and sooner than the West would.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Let's wait for the links.. .he said there is loads on line about exports. My web browser or cookies must be screening them out.


I said there's loads on line about the virus, not the exports - you need to improve your reading skills 

There are a couple of articles about exports being reduced.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> I said there's loads on line about the virus, not the exports - you need to improve your reading skills
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You said exports had stopped, not reduced... have a look



KingoftheHeath said:


> It's been in the news so you should have heard? Just in case you don't know the backstory; they've stopped exports because of a thing called 'Coronna virus' - there's loads online about it if you need to read up.


 see theres that word stopped so prove it.


----------



## AJSK66 (Jun 3, 2019)

https://fortune.com/2020/02/11/coronavirus-idles-china-factories-desperation-grows/

Christ, what rock are some people living under?

Supposedly they're trying to reopen factories now and get back to normal operation, at risk of the infection surging again.

Stopped, slowed, reduced. Just playing semantics. Doesn't take a genius to work out that this would cause some supply issues.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

AJSK66 said:


> https://fortune.com/2020/02/11/coronavirus-idles-china-factories-desperation-grows/
> 
> Christ, what rock are some people living under?
> 
> Supposedly they're trying to reopen factories now and get back to normal operation, at risk of the infection surging again.


 My wife is Chinese, so I'm well aware of what goes on in that region. Others who think exports from China (It's a big place) have stopped, perhaps don't know so much about the country. My disagreement with the "facts" was that exports have *"stopped" *...they have not stopped. Your link doesn't say exports from China have stopped. I agree, I don't know what rock some people are living under either.


----------



## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> My wife is Chinese, so I'm well aware of what goes on in that region. Others who think exports from China (It's a big place) have stopped, perhaps don't know so much about the country. My disagreement with the "facts" was that exports have *"stopped" *...they have not stopped. Your link doesn't say exports from China have stopped. I agree, I don't know what rock some people are living under either.


Who hurt you Dave?

It's a post on a coffee forum, I'm not writing a legallly enforceable document.

Note to self - refer all future posts to my lawyer before putting them forward for DaveC to analyse.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Who hurt you Dave?
> 
> It's a post on a coffee forum, I'm not writing a legallly enforceable document.
> 
> Note to self - refer all future posts to my lawyer before putting them forward for DaveC to analyse.


 In other words, you can't find a link to prove your statement below....



KingoftheHeath said:


> It's been in the news so you should have heard? Just in case you don't know the backstory; they've stopped exports because of a thing called 'Coronna virus' - there's loads online about it if you need to read up.


 ? fair enough....


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Exports from China have been impacted but as still going ahead. I had a message saying that one shipment was delayed as the government had extended the Chinese New Year holiday. Another shipment is now coming via a different courier to the one planned but shipments are being shipped from China. My first shipment arrived a week later than expected. Granted, the first shipment was 1000km away from the centre of the virus outbreak.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

working dog said:


> Exports from China have been impacted but as still going ahead. I had a message saying that one shipment was delayed as the government had extended the Chinese New Year holiday. Another shipment is now coming via a different courier to the one planned but shipments are being shipped from China. My first shipment arrived a week later than expected. Granted, the first shipment was 1000km away from the centre of the virus outbreak.


 China is huge. I never realised just how large until I first went out there more almost 25 years ago. I remember in Bejing being told the population was about 19 million and they couldn't use the same mobile system as us as it couldn't cope with that many people! At the time the UK population was about 58 Million. We were there for quite a while and spent time in Bejing, Shanghai (22M) Xian (17.5 million)...I realised that during my visit to just those 3 cities they exceeded the entire population of the UK.

Whilst in Bejing over the course of 3 weeks a highway project was completed that would take us years, simply because there was one person working every sq metre. In the morning there were literally millions of bicycles and a few cars, a Chinese friend said they all want cars, within 5 years it was millions of cars and a few bicycles. It's an incredible nation with many industrial centres, if anything slows down it doesn't stay slowed down for long. Exports might slow but never stop, it's an industrial powerhouse that could bring down the devloped world if that ever happened.

As you may sense, I think very highly of the potential of the Chinese....


----------



## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> In other words, you can't find a link to prove your statement below....
> 
> ? fair enough....


 https://www.export.org.uk/news/489076/Potential-impact-of-coronavirus-on-international-supply-chains.htm

https://www.ft.com/content/e9fbbb78-4901-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

https://www.ft.com/content/e9fbbb78-4901-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/coronavirus-outbreak-could-spur-china-to-fulfill-agriculture-purchase-promises-to-us

https://www.themanufacturer.com/articles/best-worst-case-uk-supply-chains-affected-coronavirus/

5 is nice round number to stop at.

I've applied to the courts to retract my use of "stopped" in an earlier comment, citing the Hastings Bass ruling - I didn't realise the implications of using that word when writing it.

Proceeding on the basis that the courts will agree to retract said word and continuing because you earlier took issue with a suggestion that Chinese supply chains be experiencing delays, it remains conceivable that exports from China have been, and will continue to be, impacted in the near future due to Corona virus. The linked articles support this view point. Whether that is an effective solution to mitigating the virus' threat is moot to the current debate. I leave it in your hands to refute the press reports.

Turning to your apparent insight on the matter, I'm interested to understand how your wife being an expat Chinese citizen living in the UK means that she has an understanding of the current Chinese economic activity? Reference to her qualifications and any relevant conversations she has had would be helpful.

Finally, which train line did you work for? (given your level of totally unnecessary pedantry I assume you were a ticket inspector before retirement)


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

KingoftheHeath said:


> https://www.export.org.uk/news/489076/Potential-impact-of-coronavirus-on-international-supply-chains.htm
> 
> https://www.ft.com/content/e9fbbb78-4901-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441
> 
> ...


 Errr....you just linked to a bunch of articles that didn't say production had stopped and they're about potential disruptions. Not really sure why you're bothering to be honest, seems easier to just admit you were wrong and be done with it than to start weird random arguments over the internet.

Niche have probably got them already and are preparing to be able to send them out quickly. Given the vast number of orders they'll receive it makes sense to have them packed and ready to go before they allow people to give them money. Hopefully we won't be ordering direct from China "for cost of postage" but I guess we could...


----------



## GaryM (Aug 1, 2016)

I have personal experience. The factories I deal with were shut down for a time by govt decree. They are now working again but with limited capability and their backlog and lead times are much longer than usual.

With another supplier I had an order in at the beginning of Chinese New Year. This has just been shipped this week as all logistics services were suspended during the peak of the virus infections there.

Sent from my MI 8 using Tapatalk


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## Headgoboomboom (Apr 21, 2013)

Stevebee said:


> Only 10 minutes work but hours once it disintegrates to clean the burrs ! I think I'll wait for the Niche one just in case ?


 It will not disintegrate. I have used several other versions without any problem. Even if it broke the grinder should make short work of the plastic.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I didn't realise it would take to long to make them a sale item and I'd like a few forum members to experience the difference they make. Back in the distant mists of time, I did get sent some sample production NFC disks. They sent a batch over from China (it was before Christmas I think, so Cornona free  )

It was for me to have a look & comment, someone in China just bunged a load in a jiffy bag. I don't have a huge amount but as they don't seem to break or chip (Leaxan) and I don't need more than what I have already installed. *If any long time members want an NFC disk*, *contact me via pm. I'll send you my address and if you send me a SAE with a stamp on it, I will slip an NFC disk in there for you....until I run out.*

Please don't ask if you have a different grinder, I don't have many and they will go to members I know have been around and support the forum. Priority of course to those who supported the Indeigogo Niche campaign when it was going to funding. I think there were at least 70 or 80 forum members who did but I don't have anywhere close to that number. I think I have about 15 or so.

Oh and please don't ask Niche UK, there are none in the country apart from the ones I have. As distribution of these items was never going to be handled from the UK.


----------



## GazRef (Dec 30, 2019)

I'm sat around 9-10 on the dial for espresso. Whats everyones dial number for aeropress?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

"There be gold in them hills"...well Lexan, well polycarbonate a type of plastic. Still got a few left unclaimed.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

OK all the disks I had have been claimed. I'm now just waiting for envelopes from everyone (got 2 already) and I will post them out. "If" I find any more I'll put a post up. *Please don't bother Niche, these were sent from China months ago, they don't have any stock in the UK.* I was only going to give them back to Martin when I saw him next and realised that he wasn't going to really do anything with them...so he told me to give away the excess to forum members.

So thank you Niche Coffee for thinking of the forum....


----------



## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

What I'm really liking about my Niche is the single dose grinding. I was a bit dubious about it thinking it might be a pain but I find that I can have a different roast each time and not have to use up what's in the hopper of my old Sette. Keeping the beans in their sealed bags is probably better too.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Although I have a high enough coffee consumption that running with a hopper is OK, I would miss the ability to have 3 or 4 different coffees on the go and select which one I want at any time.


----------



## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

thusband said:


> What I'm really liking about my Niche is the single dose grinding. I was a bit dubious about it thinking it might be a pain but I find that I can have a different roast each time and not have to use up what's in the hopper of my old Sette. Keeping the beans in their sealed bags is probably better too.





DavecUK said:


> Although I have a high enough coffee consumption that running with a hopper is OK, I would miss the ability to have 3 or 4 different coffees on the go and select which one I want at any time.


 Exactly my thoughts when I decided to get a Niche.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> OK all the disks I had have been claimed. I'm now just waiting for envelopes from everyone (got 2 already) and I will post them out. "If" I find any more I'll put a post up. *Please don't bother Niche, these were sent from China months ago, they don't have any stock in the UK.* I was only going to give them back to Martin when I saw him next and realised that he wasn't going to really do anything with them...so he told me to give away the excess to forum members.
> 
> So thank you Niche Coffee for thinking of the forum....


 Got it!

Thanks to @Niche Coffee and @DavecUK


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Got it!
> 
> Thanks to @Niche Coffee and @DavecUK


 I'm hoping that's the disk not the Virus  Don't forget you will need to go from 2 to 4 marks finer with the disk. Love to hear how you find the taste and improved clarity. You trade a little mouthfeel for tighter grind distribution, as expected.


----------



## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Definitely the disc (but probably the virus too  )

I'll let you know how I get on, thanks again man!


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> I would miss the ability to have 3 or 4 different coffees on the go and select which one I want at any time.


 The flexibility to switch between coffee beans very easily is a feature I really enjoy on the Niche.

In the six or so months I've had it, I've put 8kg's through it and had no issues. My workflow has definitely been made easier because of it. I certainly don't miss putting my well worn pastry brush up the throat of my old doserless Macap MC4 to ensure that what I put in, I got back out.


----------



## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

Thanks so much Dave, fitted, but waiting until the morning for testing!

For some other people, don't forget the old and true quote,

"It gives quotations for its claim - or else it gets the hose again!"


----------



## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Got the disk - Cheers Dave.

The 4 marks finer was spot on for me for both standard coffees and decaf. Saved a lot of dialling in.

Ive put the disc directly under the nut and above the black spacer. I've got Kruve data for pour over grind setting (50+20) without the disc already so will do the same with the disc installed. Will probably set it at 50+16 as you need to compare similar average grind sizes really. Kruve are useless for Espresso grinds as they clog the smaller sieve sizes.


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Received, thanks @DavecUK.

Just arrived back home will do some testing over the weekend.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

Aw, I missed out. Still patiently waiting for the email from Niche. Might ask a friend to 3D print one for me in the mean time.


----------



## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Received and installed, thanks @DavecUK ?


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

I don't know which I want more, this NFC disk or some hand sanitiser


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

KingoftheHeath said:


> I don't know which I want more, this NFC disk or some hand sanitiser


You obviously haven't run out of toilet roll

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think more sanitiser is the smart move.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

@KingoftheHeath My Mother in law is in her 80s with heart issues and she can't get any sanitiser so I'm making her some. Looks very simple.

https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-make-hand-sanitizer/


----------



## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

Mother in late 80's too, with respiratory problems!

On a bit of a lockdown but as we all know, very difficult as I, as the primary carer, must avoid contact as well.

Going to supermarket at 05.30 tomorrow to try and keep chances down to the minimum.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Jon_Foster said:


> @KingoftheHeath My Mother in law is in her 80s with heart issues and she can't get any sanitiser so I'm making her some. Looks very simple.
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-make-hand-sanitizer/


 Soap is fine, if not better than hand sanitiser


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> Soap is fine, if not better than hand sanitiser


 It definitely is but hard to transport soap, a tap and a sink with you ?


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

ratty said:


> Mother in late 80's too, with respiratory problems!
> 
> On a bit of a lockdown but as we all know, very difficult as I, as the primary carer, must avoid contact as well.
> 
> Going to supermarket at 05.30 tomorrow to try and keep chances down to the minimum.


 Maybe get a delivery if you're worried?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> Maybe get a delivery if you're worried?


 Delivery guys never wash their hands and those crates/bags etc.. have been everywhere....including to those who actually have Covid and self Isolated...


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

I get that, it's a really good point, and I don't know if everyone is doing it but at the moment Tesco are doing a thing where they bag your shopping up up and leave it on the step so there is zero contact. There's a new self isolation thing on the delivery bit of the website and everything, which just seems crazy but there you go... And you'd hope they might have had some sort of handwashing/hygiene briefing but who knows... (tbf the deivery guys are get are great, I don't drive so I get most of my food delivered). Just thought it might be an option that ratty hadn't considered. I love an option!

I suppose we all just have to make our own decisions about what carries the least threat, personally I go with the delivery but who can say whether that would carry the least threat at any one time? You can mitigate the risks but it's in the lap of the gods. You go to the store and someone with the virus has handled something you handle but the you'd have been fine with the delivery. On another day the delivery driver gives it to you but you'd have fine in store. It's a minefield ???


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Had my first properly dialed in coffee this morning using the nfc disc and seems to enhance the flavours coming through, def more chocolate and sweetness in the cup


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Niche disc arrived today. Many thanks Dave. Will be fitting and trying out this weekend ?


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Thank you Dave! My disc just arrived, I fitted it straight away. It works well and the reduced stress on the gearbox can only be a good thing!


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Hi all. What is the best way to stop the burrs turning when fitting the disc?

I don't want to risk damaging the burrs so any tips from those that have done it?


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Hi again. I managed to find a wooden spoon whose handle was the correct diameter to wedge the inert burr against the outer. You can use the cut out in the disc as an approximate guide as it needs to be able to fit through that when tightening the nut afterwards.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Noo!...just a flick of the wrist against the motor resistance is usually enough...don't screw the bejesus out of it


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Obviously need more practice on my wrist flick as I couldn't get that to work ?. Only tightened gently but found the spoon just enough to stop the burrs turning when undoing.

Busy doing a before and after comparison now. 4 marks finer is about right for me too.

Thanks for sharing these Dave


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Jollybean said:


> Obviously need more practice on my wrist flick as I couldn't get that to work ?.


 A likely story... ?


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

It's all true I tell you......honest ?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Of course it is.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Used one of those knock-off blind tumblers from ebay today as a funnel to grind directly into the portafilter. Just a couple of taps to get an even bed, tapping down didn't make it collapse into an uneven mess. Just an ordinary tamp and I got a really good pull with even beading across the basket and a shot that held together beyond 40 seconds. Might have to give this straight into the portafiler business another go.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks@davecuk for the disk - can't wait to try our in the morn.

I'm going to guess the Kenyan I have at 13 should be dialled to 11

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johey (Oct 12, 2019)

There's an update on Indiegogo. You can now order it for $9.99.

I thought it would be for free? Only shipping costs.


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## AJSK66 (Jun 3, 2019)

Yeah it seems a bit of a piss take. I mean I paid it anyway since I can afford it but they said all along it would only cost the price of shipping. £8 seems a bit steep just for that.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

AJSK66 said:


> Yeah it seems a bit of a piss take. I mean I paid it anyway since I can afford it but they said all along it would only cost the price of shipping. £8 seems a bit steep just for that.


 This.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Ain't gonna bother for £8. They can do one ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Johey said:


> There's an update on Indiegogo. You can now order it for $9.99.
> 
> I thought it would be for free? Only shipping costs.





Cooffe said:


> Ain't gonna bother for £8. They can do one ?


 Ships from Hong Kong......and quickly!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Cooffe said:


> Ain't gonna bother for £8. They can do one ?


 I agree! It is only a bit of plastic that definitely did not need and r & d, design, or testing and cost the firm absolutely nothing to produce......definitely do not buy one!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

To bang this old drum again... I find it funny they're willing to create a shop (circa £18 p/m) for the purpose of shipping out a bit of plastic, but still insist on pretending they're crowdfunding on Indiegogo.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I was lucky enough to get one from DavecUk but I wouldn't have hesitated to get one. You need to grind 4 notches finer but I'm sure the distribution will be better with the disk. I'm doing a few before and after sieves with the Kruve at pourover grind settings (50+20 on the Niche) to see the difference. In my view the Niche does best at Espresso grind but sieving that fine is a pain due to clogging so I'll focus on v60 range.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

filthynines said:


> To bang this old drum again... I find it funny they're willing to create a shop (circa £18 p/m) for the purpose of shipping out a bit of plastic, but still insist on pretending they're crowdfunding on Indiegogo.


 But why does it matter? The price has not gone up as a result. No one yet, that I am aware of has been disadvantaged by this or had Niche try to hide behind Indiegogo rules to avoid something. I agree that it would be more normal to have a shop front, but perhaps there are reasons for this approach, that are not sinister


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> But why does it matter? The price has not gone up as a result. No one yet, that I am aware of has been disadvantaged by this or had Niche try to hide behind Indiegogo rules to avoid something. I agree that it would be more normal to have a shop front, but perhaps there are reasons for this approach, that are not sinister


 Same reasons as before - consumer protection. I know we forcefully disagreed on this a while ago so we don't need to get into it again. I personally think it does matter, and not just as a matter of how it all looks. From their business perspective they're also losing about 8 percentage points of profit (without checking Shopify's rates).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

filthynines said:


> Same reasons as before - consumer protection. I know we forcefully disagreed on this a while ago so we don't need to get into it again. I personally think it does matter, and not just as a matter of how it all looks. From their business perspective they're also losing about 8 percentage points of profit (without checking Shopify's rates).


 I can understand your point of view, but the point I made was if it is not affecting the consumer, does it matter? I know that other firms have hidden behind Indiegogo's position but Niche have not.....so are we not splitting hairs a little


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> I can understand your point of view, but the point I made was if it is not affecting the consumer, does it matter? I know that other firms have hidden behind Indiegogo's position but Niche have not.....so are we not splitting hairs a little


 It's always a case of "everything is fine until it's not" with consumer rights. I will happily agree that nothing has gone wrong and it has been exemplary so far. But especially in these trying times, and in the context of this company (luxury goods, importing from China, small company etc) I would much prefer to see everything on a proper footing so that *if* everything goes bump in the night (more likely today than a month ago, but that's not to say it is at all likely) then there would be no doubt that credit card companies would have to step in if goods weren't delivered etc.

I'd resigned myself to just accepting it is what it is. Until, that is, a nice webshop appeared specifically for shipping a tiny bit of plastic. One of the things I said previously is that I could see why Niche might not want to go to the effort of creating a webshop when they have a sales channel and a dozen other things to be doing which will benefit the end user. It seems the time was suddenly found, but only applied to doing things properly with this one spare part.

Oh, and the returns policy for the Spares site says "You must return to China". Which isn't very good at all.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

Interestingly enough my work PC won't let me access the site:

The website you're trying to access - nichespares.com, is known to host Malware, Virus, Botnet or similar malicious programs. Current Internet Access Policy does not allow visiting sites hosting malicious programs.

It's just as well I got one of the discs from Dave! Very much appreciated.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

filthynines said:


> Oh, and the returns policy for the Spares site says "You must return to China". Which isn't very good at all.


 If it helps your peace of mind, return it to me for a full refund at any point in time.....and that does not apply to anyone else other than filtynines.......just trying to help out!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'm not sure how many of these I have left (I think I'm out Gavin got the last one), I'm still waiting for all the SAEs to come in from people. I e-mailed Niche and asked them if they got sent a large quantity in a Jiffy bag the same as I did and asked if they can send me any extras they have for the forum members. I expect they will want to keep a few back for exhibitions and emergencies. I don't know how many it will be, if it's like my bag there may be up to 20 disks?

If anyone wants one, send me a pm,* If I can get more I will reply with details* and it will only cost you 2 stamps and envelopes (priority to active members)..

*If Niche do have any they can post to me....I'll report back on the thread.*


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> I'm not sure how many of these I have left (I think I'm out Gavin got the last one), I'm still waiting for all the SAEs to come in from people. I e-mailed Niche and asked them if they got sent a large quantity in a Jiffy bag the same as I did and asked if they can send me any extras they have for the forum members. I expect they will want to keep a few back for exhibitions and emergencies. I don't know how many it will be, if it's like my bag there may be up to 20 disks?
> 
> If anyone wants one, send me a pm,* If I can get more I will reply with details* and it will only cost you 2 stamps and envelopes (priority to active members)..
> 
> *If Niche do have any they can post to me....I'll report back on the thread.*


 Cheers for the help Dave. Will send a PM and see if anything comes of it.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Thanks @DavecUK NFC disk arrived, today, really appreciate your help. I would have had it earlier, but got caught up in the silliness of empty breadflour shelves at my local supermarket. Sending a fool further, I checked out another supermarket and there's no flour there either. Funny, I've been able to get stoneground wholewheat flour easily for the past 20 years, since it's popularity isn't as great as white flour.in my area. That'll teach me not to stock up.

Disc going on this afternoon. Tempted to put a thin fibre washer between the underside of the domed bolt and the face of the NFC disc.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Mine has arrived today as well. Thanks @DavecUK


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Niche got back to me, their sending 15-20 disks tomorrow, so keep those PMs coming and I'll get em out to people as fast as I can.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I found (as tested already by @DavecUK), a ~4 point increase in fineness was required to give the same extraction time. The reduction in coarsening towards the end of the grind appears to have narrowed the distribution peak and improved flavour separation and clarity. It is noticeable. Simple design but effective.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

lake_m said:


> I found (as tested already by @DavecUK), a ~4 point increase in fineness was required to give the same extraction time. The reduction in coarsening towards the end of the grind appears to have narrowed the distribution peak and improved flavour separation and clarity. It is noticeable. Simple design but effective.


I know exactly what you mean, but it sounds odd to say you get a reduction of coarsening and therefore need to grind finer.

A four point change really highlights the impact this has. I would never have thought it could make that much difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I know exactly what you mean, but it sounds odd to say you get a reduction of coarsening and therefore need to grind finer.
> 
> A four point change really highlights the impact this has. I would never have thought it could make that much difference.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Mind you some people are moaning about $9.99, if you had paid for it would it have been worth it?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I would say absolutely, yes.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Mind you some people are moaning about $9.99, if you had paid for it would it have been worth it?


From a quality point of view it looks to make a big difference for practically no cost (in the grand scheme of coffee equipment). Totally worth it.

On face value it's $10 for a funny car wash token.

I'd err on the side of worth it, but I'd appreciate it might annoy some.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> From a quality point of view it looks to make a big difference for practically no cost (in the grand scheme of coffee equipment). Totally worth it.
> 
> On face value it's $10 for a funny car wash token.
> 
> ...


 Funny old world, when this is more expensive + postage + sales Tax....but I don't see people complaining about it. It's even out of stock. I also hope it won't annoy some for me to mention it..


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you buy a kettle for £6.99, can you find anyone to repair it (thinking repair firms charge £30 an hour)?


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

I've just ordered mine. 9.99 with no shipping charge doesn't seem so bad in the grand scheme of things. I'm more than happy with my Niche Zero, (got it last April) and if this makes it perform even better, well then I'm happy to plonk down a tenner. YMMV


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Cheers @DavecUK all fitted.

Also did a deep clean at the same time. First one in 3 months. Got about 0.95g out. Pretty good.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Your grind cup must be heavier than mine by about 7grms  mine is bang on 118grms. Last time i did a deep clean got about 1gr out. Impressive.

About the nfc disc. I did 3.5 notches finer and its bang on. Asked my wife last night when i did her a decaf flat white if she can taste any difference she said its great as usual but different in a good way. a bit more chocolaty and more flavoursome. By the way i didn't mention her about the disc before i made her coffee. Then i explained everything. Forget about popcorning, this little piece definitely improves taste of your shots.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Gavin said:


> Cheers @DavecUK all fitted.
> Also did a deep clean at the same time. First one in 3 months. Got about 0.95g out. Pretty good.
> <img alt="F7582D12-2C05-4A04-9244-BE30D1244149.thumb.jpeg.8bc1f218766447f13d2f5382315d667c.jpeg" data-fileid="37138" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_03/F7582D12-2C05-4A04-9244-BE30D1244149.thumb.jpeg.8bc1f218766447f13d2f5382315d667c.jpeg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


I got 1.4g. I'm a complete dirtbag.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I got 1.4g. I'm a complete dirtbag.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Gonna have to put you on my ignore list.....utter filth!


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

Hello,

I have problems with my Niche Grinder for two months: my coffee suddenly became worse, I noticed a lot of "fines" in abnormal quantity,

(see pictures)

and when I looked carefully at the grinder, I realized that

- the upper part of the burrs "moved" regularly when the motor was running, (and you can feel it by putting someting on it, a chopstick for example)

- that it made now a slighly different noise.

- This problem happened systematically after a change in grinding position (I also use it for expresso) and then sometimes stopped.

(download the video, you can see the upper burr moving better than seeing it in the browser)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17ABb8BXXVhvqjhjgt6w4b6JaQRbqgNQP/view?usp=sharing

Deep cleaning has changed nothing.

I started to read this forum, and I came across the problem of "inspector" p96.

I dismantle my grinder and I saw the same thing (see pictures)

(NB : I bought and received the niche in September 2019)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Guillaume85 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have problems with my Niche Grinder for two months: my coffee suddenly became worse, I noticed a lot of "fines" in abnormal quantity,
> 
> ...


 How are you determining that fines are in an abnormal quantity? What is the normal quantity and what do you have? Are you sure that you are simply just not set too fine?

The photo of the V60 tells us nothing unfortunately. What is your method/dose/ratio, what setting are you grinding on (I'd suggest you want to be around the 55 mark).

The video does not show the grind setting moving.


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

Normally I don't have this kind of "cream" on the v60 filter.

Settings are ok because under that "cream" the size is ok, calibration of the grinder is also ok .

On the video, if you dowload it you can see the upper part of the burr moving, same "rhythm" than the motor noise. Specialy if you focus on the part that is shown on the picture below :

I don't know if these things are related, but the movement of the burr and the notches in the thread are strange


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Guillaume85 said:


> Normally I don't have this kind of "cream" on the v60 filter.
> 
> Settings are ok because under that "cream" the size is ok, calibration of the grinder is also ok .
> 
> ...


 Sorry, you really need to give us something tangible to go on, to establish if there is an issue & a possible fix.

I don't know what "cream" is with relation to a V60. You can make the bed look like what you like depending on how you pour. All grinders make a wide range of particles sizes any setting.

If the grind size, setting & calibration are "OK", why are you reluctant to tell us what they are?

I can see your camera moving way more than anything else.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I watched the video, assuming it's not a shutter artefact my first though it *how much pressure is the top chrome adjuster making onto the burr, how coarse is it set?*

The top burr has to by definition slide in, so it can't really be an interference fit as it would jam with a change in temperature.. Burrs also have a +/- tolerance, as does the area the burrs slide in, again unavoidable. The burr is then held under pressure by 2 springs. The friction between the burr and the top adjuster would prevent any slight motion. The only way it could move with vibration is if there is little or no pressure at all, or 1 or more springs are not present? You need to do 2 tests.

1. A good test of whether it's the springs is to remove the top adjuster and have a look, see if the springs are there and OK e.g. no fractured or some problem

2. Put the top back and turn it down to the calibration point until you can't tighten it any more and then move it coarser to number 10, take another video and see if it moves.

3. Then move it to the coarse settings your using (write down how much coarser you move it), take another video and see if it moves

If you can use a tripod for the camera and better light.

Your grinder has no coffee in it, so if there is any movement, logically it can only be caused by vibration because nothing else is touching.. In the video below is an empty grinder, with the old style not quite as stiff springs. In fact it still has the old springs..as it never had any issues.


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

Ok I will try to make a new video with a tripod



MWJB said:


> Sorry, you really need to give us something tangible to go on, to establish if there is an issue & a possible fix.
> 
> I don't know what "cream" is with relation to a V60. You can make the bed look like what you like depending on how you pour. All grinders make a wide range of particles sizes any setting.
> 
> ...


 Calibration is made as described in the manual.

I set the ring on 45 to 50 depending on the coffee for V60 use.

And on 19 or 20 for expresso on my lelit Pl81t

The upper part of the burr is moving when set on 50 as well as set on 20

I got metal powder on the thread of the calibration ring as on the inside part of the grinder (the black lines are very fine metal powder that shines on my finger). (picture) and the springs looks normal to me.

Il will try to make a better video.

Maybe we should forget about the "cream", it's just that I didn't get this with the same coffee and the same settings the first three month of use


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Guillaume85 said:


> I set the ring on 45 to 50 depending on the coffee for V60 use.


 This seems a bit fine to me. But, it's impossible to be sure without knowing what your brew size & method is? V60 doesn't do anything, it just sits there while you brew...you determine the grind setting by your regime.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

How stiff or smooth your adjustment ring turns?

When i had a problem, my ring became quite stiff and i had fine metal shavings on threads too. After cleaning well and putting oil rather than grease it solved the stiffness problem, and since then it is working well. My grind setting definitely moved down towards finer by 4 notches after having this problem tho. So i was grinding decaf always on setting 12 now i am grinding 8. Actually 5 after installing NFC Disk 

I think don't worry about those cuts on threads they must have happened when they were drilling the holes for springs in factory as some of us mentioned.

I still couldn't quite see the burr movement on the video i will try to watch it on a bigger screen.

Edit

To me it is very fine grind for 45-50 It looks more like 25-30


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

New video

After a cleaning, and calibration, I put some coffee grain, and moved the ring to set on 35

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B1FObkj53jDXWS8sFIcFOwiatVVJHxjV/view?usp=sharing


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Guillaume85 I asked some questions, some are even numbered. If you decide not to answer them or do all the things asked, it becomes difficult to help you. I suggest you review my earlier post and if you can answer the questions asked and do all the tests I suggested. Until then I can't really help.

It's even possible the top burr plastic locator ring is loose and the allen screws need tightening?? I don't know have you checked it as there is no photo of the top burr


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> DavecUK said:
> 
> 
> > I watched the video, assuming it's not a shutter artefact my first though it *how much pressure is the top chrome adjuster making onto the burr, how coarse is it set?*
> ...


 1: springs looks new : same size, not broken and there is nothing inside their "emplacement" (picture). It was the first thing I checked.

2: Calibration is made.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B3dLhWm6Yc5KAJ_2qMQa9XA9TBN6UPD4/view?usp=sharing

So here at the 3 videos :

Set to 10 : nothing moves.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B5bnDI42p9R7ufKQSTu5O9GXISmaOLHY/view?usp=sharing

Set to 20 : moving

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B7-bES_WpdeQBoRs1DKv8XqbwHHI2FNX/view?usp=sharing

Set to 50 : moving

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BBsedLBvhEDb5FAf7ieuZOLRwtrO4p6o/view?usp=sharing

And The the top burr plastic locator ring isn't loose at all

NB : After a deep cleaning, burr isn't moving. It starts to move after putting coffee grain or moving the setting ring. At setting 10 it never moves.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

With the disk attached to my niche I can clearly see the gap between the edge of the disk and the chrome surround of the grinder is not uniformly even - i.e. as it spins it wobbles.

Before fitting the disk I could see this on the top bolt also though it's easier to see now the disk is fitted.

It's been explained before - though could someone remind me why this isn't a problem and does not necessarily equate to a wobbly burr also?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Guillaume85 said:


> 1: springs looks new : same size, not broken and there is nothing inside their "emplacement" (picture). It was the first thing I checked.
> 
> 2: Calibration is made.
> 
> ...


 Ok then it's definitely a pressure issue.

1. When you make the grind finer AFTER going coarser and the outer burr moving, is the ring quite easy to move and then does it get stiffer. e.g. do you think the top burr might be sticking (binding up). So when you go coarse the springs are not pushing it tight against the adjustment ring?

2. With the adjustment ring off and the top burr+springs in place , does it move up and down cleanly when you push it or does it stick a little as it comes up?

I looked at the photo of the springs and you seem to have 15 coil springs which I think are the stiffer versions...so it's not that. One other thing you can try if you have any is mother board screws for computers the little domed,ones. it will add a 1-1.5 mm space. Pop one in the top of each spring, be careful to not cross thread the top burr adjuster as now it will be a LOT stiffer and need a little pressure to engage.. If then this makes it work OK, it's definitely a pressure problem but perhaps something unusual.

I would think then you should contact Niche so they can take a look at the grinder.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> With the disk attached to my niche I can clearly see the gap between the edge of the disk and the chrome surround of the grinder is not uniformly even - i.e. as it spins it wobbles.
> 
> Before fitting the disk I could see this on the top bolt also though it's easier to see now the disk is fitted.
> 
> It's been explained before - though could someone remind me why this isn't a problem and does not necessarily equate to a wobbly burr also?


 No you're good Kenny. The burr goes over the shaft. The threaded hole in the shaft that the bolt goes into may not be exactly central. This doesn't matter because* the bolt only holds down a key for the keyway in the top shaft*. It doesn't centre the burr in any way or have any effect on it's centering. The movement of the bolt results from this slightly off-centre hole but, the inner burr is unaffected. The key in the keyway locks the burr and inner shaft together so they rotate as one....but it also does not centre the burr in any way.

Only the shaft centres the burr and the burr goes over the shaft.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Super, thanks @davecuk, makes sense

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Ok folks today i made an aeropress with 18gr LSOL February. Niche setting 18 (nfc disk instaled) off the boil water used 30 sec bloom then filled up till mark 4 on aeropress. 2 mins brewing time. Then plunge down in about 30 seconds. Usual recipe for me. I am using fellow disk by the way so no inverted.

What i noticed taste wise it was much cleaner than before, i liked it. Very good to achieve this without using paper as even though i rinse the paper with hot water twice i still can taste it in the cup. That's why i am using metal filter. Plus it is less work 

But interestingly i had more fines than ever at the bottom of the mug. How come?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have been using the Niche exclusively now for a week or so, over and above my Clima Pro. One thing I am finding, is the lack of need to adjust the grind setting between beans. I accept that the roast level of most of my stuff is similar, but different beans have different density. I suppose if I could remember, then I could make every drink a little better by adjusting but if I write settings down I lose the paper and if I memorise them they have gone after 4 seconds! Using a lever the bar pressure is lower which I suppose makes a difference to pour.


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> Ok then it's definitely a pressure issue.
> 
> 1. When you make the grind finer AFTER going coarser and the outer burr moving, is the ring quite easy to move and then does it get stiffer. e.g. do you think the top burr might be sticking (binding up). So when you go coarse the springs are not pushing it tight against the adjustment ring?
> 
> ...


 1 : I don't think so. For example, at 45, sometimes the upper burr stops moving. Then, I use a chopstick to push on the red button so that I can set the burr at 20 for an expresso, and this move makes the upper burr move again. Going slower as it's described in the manuel (power on, then open the top, go 10 finer, close the top, power on...) produce the same result

2 : when the adjustment ring is off and I push the top burr, it seems to move up "as it shoud"

Thank you for taking the time to help me. I'll try to contact Niche and tell you what happens next.


----------



## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I have been using the Niche exclusively now for a week or so, over and above my Clima Pro. One thing I am finding, is the lack of need to adjust the grind setting between beans. I accept that the roast level of most of my stuff is similar, but different beans have different density. I suppose if I could remember, then I could make every drink a little better by adjusting but if I write settings down I lose the paper and if I memorise them they have gone after 4 seconds! Using a lever the bar pressure is lower which I suppose makes a difference to pour.


 Me too. I roast all my beans pretty similar so I can be fairly confident the espresso will be nice. I have noticed that as the beans age I might have to tighten the grind up just a little. A half a tick will do it usually.


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## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

Thanks for the official NFC disc @DavecUK

I'm happy now, turns out the 3D printed version had started to come apart already due to the design, it was slightly different to the Niche one and the edges of the hole had slopes, this meant very thin sections.


----------



## jonners (Apr 26, 2013)

Nick1881 said:


> Thanks for the official NFC disc @DavecUK
> 
> +1


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I would like to ask, what is the dimensions from the bottom of the chute to the grounds tray, with the "coaster" removed?


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## Bainbridge (Feb 4, 2012)

Niche NFC disk arrived this morning. Installed at as per the Niche instructions on YouTube and it's working great.

Weirdly I noticed a huge increase in static as soon as I ground with the NFC disk. It's sticking to the underside of the disk and the outside of the chute.

Anyone else had this?


----------



## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Bainbridge said:


> Niche NFC disk arrived this morning. Installed at as per the Niche instructions on YouTube and it's working great.
> 
> Weirdly I noticed a huge increase in static as soon as I ground with the NFC disk. It's sticking to the underside of the disk and the outside of the chute.
> 
> Anyone else had this?


 Didnt notice anything different with mine relating to static, obviously grinding finer and a better taste in the cup!


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

My disk arrived this morning, ordered it the day it became available.

I wasn't at all expecting to be blown away but my honest reaction is 'wow'. The first two pulls with last month's Nicraguan bean from Dog and Hat (Missing Bean), which before I was getting nothing from other than a slightly unpleasant tobacco smoke flavour, is now giving a delicious hit of cherry.

I ended up using the same grind setting as before; I guess because haven taken the opportunity to clean the burrs I calibrated it finer (if that's possible?).

Not getting any noticeable increase in static.


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## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

I seem to be getting more grounds than I'd like to see stuck to the metal cup due to static. Even after tapping the counter before tipping it upside down into the portafilter. My NZ came with the disc so it isn't something new. Could it be the weather or the bean? I was getting very little previously.


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## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

Could be the weather.

Here in Bruges we're under the influence of a rather cold and dry eastern wind.

Dry air means more static.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I think the increased static is entirely due to the weather. My weather station tells me the relative humidity is lower than it has been for many months. Even without the disk I'm getting much more static than usual.


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## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

martinierius said:


> Could be the weather.
> 
> Here in Bruges we're under the influence of a rather cold and dry eastern wind.
> 
> Dry air means more static.


 We've had some dry weather here in Somerset so that's probably it.


----------



## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

Rob666 said:


> I think the increased static is entirely due to the weather. My weather station tells me the relative humidity is lower than it has been for many months. Even without the disk I'm getting much more static than usual.


 I guess it really couldn't be anything else. The only thing that has changed is the weather.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Stanic said:


> I would like to ask, what is the dimensions from the bottom of the chute to the grounds tray, with the "coaster" removed?


 @DavecUK?


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

100mm at the back, 104mm at the front as chute is not straight


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Thanks!


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## Bainbridge (Feb 4, 2012)

Rob666 said:


> I think the increased static is entirely due to the weather. My weather station tells me the relative humidity is lower than it has been for many months. Even without the disk I'm getting much more static than usual.


 Interesting. Thing is I wasn't getting any static before I installed the disk, now it's like this (aeropress grind this morning).

Not complaining by the way, more just intrigued as to why that would make a difference.

Really enjoying the clarity of flavour I'm getting from the disk so far.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Bainbridge said:


> Interesting. Thing is I wasn't getting any static before I installed the disk, now it's like this (aeropress grind this morning).
> 
> Not complaining by the way, more just intrigued as to why that would make a difference.
> 
> Really enjoying the clarity of flavour I'm getting from the disk so far.


 Is it the same coffee as before?

Looks like chaff, could be from a lighter roast and or coarser grind?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@Bainbridge

Could be many things but in my humble, unlikely to be the grinder. Give the beans a couple of droplets of water initially to see if that alleviates. Could be the beans are catching sunlight? Might just be dry atmospheric conditions


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## Bainbridge (Feb 4, 2012)

I've been grinding both for espresso and filter regularly, swapping between beans all the time. This is a light roast (LSOL beans from Rave) and it is mostly chaff.

I just made a decaf for my wife and espresso roast straight out of the freezer didn't produce any static. Maybe the coffee grinds are less likely to fly about when cold?


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## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

A few years ago when I was grinding with a Lido hand grinder I'd get all kinds of clinging. I'd use a little misting bottle and spritz the beans. Maybe I'll see if I can find it again.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Bainbridge said:


> I've been grinding both for espresso and filter regularly, swapping between beans all the time. This is a light roast (LSOL beans from Rave) and it is mostly chaff.
> 
> I just made a decaf for my wife and espresso roast straight out of the freezer didn't produce any static. Maybe the coffee grinds are less likely to fly about when cold?


 Espresso roasts & darker roasts in general seem to make less visible chaff. Grinding finer also makes the chaff less visible. I guess also that naturals & processes that make the seam darker will affect the chaff you can see.


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## SebO (Dec 16, 2019)

Hi Niche Users -

just one question - yesterday after cleaning and recalibration I experienced a slight scratching noise while spinning for any grind settings downwards from 10. I wonder - because I really think that's new - but can't explain to myself what the reason for this change could be.

Which grind settings are usable without burrs touching for your niche grinders?

Best Regards,

Sebastian


----------



## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

SebO said:


> Hi Niche Users -
> 
> just one question - yesterday after cleaning and recalibration I experienced a slight scratching noise while spinning for any grind settings downwards from 10. I wonder - because I really think that's new - but can't explain to myself what the reason for this change could be.
> 
> ...


 Did it stop making the noise when you backed off on the fine grind?


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## SebO (Dec 16, 2019)

Cooffe said:


> Did it stop making the noise when you backed off on the fine grind?


 It did!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

SebO said:


> Hi Niche Users -
> 
> just one question - yesterday after cleaning and recalibration I experienced a slight scratching noise while spinning for any grind settings downwards from 10. I wonder - because I really think that's new - but can't explain to myself what the reason for this change could be.
> 
> Which grind settings are usable without burrs touching for your niche grinders?


 To the point where the grind becomes Turkish is no problem and there is still some to go. I tried all this during testing. Effectively if you calibrate correctly I am pretty sure you can almost put the white dot at12 o clock without things touching (working from memory). The grinder must be perfectly clean though! You won't come anywhere close to running out of espresso range.

As for static some users are experiencing with the NFC disk, beause it narrows (significantly) the grind distribution, the latter portion of the grind is the same fineness as the initial portion. Without the disk the latter portion is coarser and I believe "sweeps" away the static and finer grinds and "sits" on them. It's also not an ever decreasing flow from high to low, but a more steady controlled flow which gives the grinds chance to "float" more. Hopefully that makes sense.


----------



## SebO (Dec 16, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> To the point where the grind becomes Turkish is no problem and there is still some to go. I tried all this during testing. Effectively if you calibrate correctly I am pretty sure you can almost put the white dot at12 o clock without things touching (working from memory). The grinder must be perfectly clean though! You won't come anywhere close to running out of espresso range.


 Interesting - just cleaned again - and it still starts to make scratchy noises at grind setting 10.

i noticed that there is some movement of the funnel in the thread (it's just Not That tight). I can make it work without scratchy noises down to 8 by adjusting the funnel in the thread horizontally .... but not in a persistent way.

?

seems like something is going wrong?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

SebO said:


> seems like something is going wrong?


 The funnel and thread would have some movement as the thread is only designed to screw the funnel down and apply pressure, it doesn't centre the burr. 3 questions to try and help you.

1. When you cleaned it did you remove* both burrs and the sweep arms* then thoroughly clean with a toothbrush and tooth pick?

2. If you have a smartphone with recording capability can you record the sound?

3. Takes a close up photo of the burrs?


----------



## SebO (Dec 16, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> The funnel and thread would have some movement as the thread is only designed to screw the funnel down and apply pressure, it doesn't centre the burr. 3 questions to try and help you.
> 
> 1. When you cleaned it did you remove* both burrs and the sweep arms* then thoroughly clean with a toothbrush and tooth pick?
> 
> ...


 1. I removed every part and cleaned them all. Everything was first cleaned by brush and then with a microfibre tool. After that I did also clean the grinding Chamber to make sure that there isn't any build up on the material which could elevate the bottom burr and sweep arms.

2 & 3. Of Course,

Please find the pictures and Soundfile attached.

First Sound File is with Scratching at grind level 9, Second is at grind level 12, without Scratching.

View attachment wScratching.mp4

View attachment woScratching.mp4


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I wound mine way past zero and no rubbing noise, so don't know. You could try a marker pen around bottom of inner burr....bring it to calibration point, back off to 10, run grinder and when you hear scraping, take burrs out and have a look. Also do same, have no scraping, take burrs out and have a look as a control.


----------



## Glasside (Feb 22, 2015)

I can certainly add to the chorus of those impressed by the grinder.

I've been using a mazzer mini e for the last 5 or so years. It's served me well..

The thing I've found with the niche is how much more it allows me to explore a coffee. I tend to buy coffee in 250g bags and with the mazzer it would take me some time with new beans to get to a point where I was satisfied with the flavour. With the niche I seem to be able to get to a good 'starting point' with the coffee within two shots or so and after that it's all fine tuning for fun.

If I were to characterize it in one phrase it is simply that it has made coffee making more fun.


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## GazRef (Dec 30, 2019)

how many notches about espresso grind is everyone using for aeropress ? 10 or so clicks up or more than 10 (2min brew time btw)


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Yes, around 10 up. But I've only used it a handful of times for Aeropress


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Im at 12 with nfc disk installed


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Anyone else find the bolt going through the nfc and burr coming undone with the nfc fitted?

I just noticed after a week of use, I tightened the bolt the same as normal after owning the niche for 1.5 years!

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

just checked the bolt on my niche, it is still tight. What i did was applied couple of spins with a bahco mini ratchet against motor resistance.

But you mentioned you had niche since 1.5 years so i hope it being undone was just a one off.


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## GazRef (Dec 30, 2019)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Anyone else find the bolt going through the nfc and burr coming undone with the nfc fitted?
> 
> I just noticed after a week of use, I tightened the bolt the same as normal after owning the niche for 1.5 years!
> 
> Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


 Thought I'd seen a post somewhere. Yes the bolt undoes its self. If you turn the machine on with no beans it'll happily spin and remain tight. Stick some beans in and it works itself loose. I was conscious not to over-tighten the bolt after install the disc but I'll give it mans dose over the weekend. You manage to sort it?


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

I ended up tightening it a tad more than normal, but not lots and lots. It seems to be working so far!

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


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## Guillaume85 (Mar 20, 2020)

SebO said:


> 1. I removed every part and cleaned them all. Everything was first cleaned by brush and then with a microfibre tool. After that I did also clean the grinding Chamber to make sure that there isn't any build up on the material which could elevate the bottom burr and sweep arms.
> 
> 2 & 3. Of Course,
> 
> ...


 Hello!

Mine makes the same sound when the upper burr is moving. Is it also the case for you? (see my videos p102\103)

Guillaume


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Now I'm confused. I added the disk and with the beans i was using (CC Tusker) I had to tighten the grind by several notches. Now I've switched to (CC Ranchero) and I've had to loosen the grind by around six notches. Looser than it's ever been before. I thought the accepted wisdom was, "add the disk and tighten the grind". I've had Ranchero before and never needed to have it this loose.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Anyone else find the bolt going through the nfc and burr coming undone with the nfc fitted?
> 
> I just noticed after a week of use, I tightened the bolt the same as normal after owning the niche for 1.5 years!
> 
> Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


 I noticed mine had worked loose a couple of days ago, gave it a good nip when I retightened it and all OK so far. Hopefully I just hadn't tightened it enough when fitting the disc.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Rob666 said:


> Now I'm confused. I added the disk and with the beans i was using (CC Tusker) I had to tighten the grind by several notches. Now I've switched to (CC Ranchero) and I've had to loosen the grind by around six notches. Looser than it's ever been before. I thought the accepted wisdom was, "add the disk and tighten the grind". I've had Ranchero before and never needed to have it this loose.


 I definitely had to tighten the grind after fitting the disc so I imagine that batch of Ranchero just needed a looser grind for whatever reason. Don't think it would be a result of the disc... but interesting to see what others think.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jon_Foster said:


> I noticed mine had worked loose a couple of days ago, gave it a good nip when I retightened it and all OK so far. Hopefully I just hadn't tightened it enough when fitting the disc.


 For sure...


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Yes, around 10 up. But I've only used it a handful of times for Aeropress





Inspector said:


> Im at 12 with nfc disk installed





GazRef said:


> how many notches about espresso grind is everyone using for aeropress ? 10 or so clicks up or more than 10 (2min brew time btw)


 Am I doing something wrong? Wouldn't surprise me. For aeropress I grind around 32 with the NFC disk. Are you grinding at espresso grind? I also steep for 2 minutes. Haven't nailed it down yet with the NFC but was sure I was circling in the right area. Should I try much finer?


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I think 32 is way too coarse for 2min brew.

But of course it is all about taste. Do one at 32 and do one at 12 and compare.


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## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Inspector said:


> I think 32 is way too coarse for 2min brew.
> 
> But of course it is all about taste. Do one at 32 and do one at 12 and compare.


 Have given it a go this fine. I use an inverted method 15g:220ml 30sec bloom then 2min. Tastes good, will play about in the 10-20 region. I also cleaned my niche which it was in desperate need of!


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## uman (Jan 23, 2019)

Hey, did you notice the letters on Niche come off? All it takes is a wet finger  Look


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

uman said:


> Hey, did you notice the letters on Niche come off? All it takes is a wet finger  Look
> 
> View attachment 38355


 You need to let Niche know, and let them know the date you purchased the grinder, or when the grinder was purchased, so they can track the build date.


----------



## uman (Jan 23, 2019)

I will, mine is quite "old" - one of the first, but it happens to new ones, too.


----------



## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

uman said:


> I will, mine is quite "old" - one of the first, but it happens to new ones, too.


 Maybe the white models? Mine's black with white lettering and it doesn't smear.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Contact them and report back...


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## Raymondlin (Apr 16, 2019)

Hi guys, I think I will order one of these, is the Indiegogo site the official site to order one of these still?


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Raymondlin said:


> Hi guys, I think I will order one of these, is the Indiegogo site the official site to order one of these still?


 yes


----------



## Raymondlin (Apr 16, 2019)

Stanic said:


> yes


 Thanks, and I take it all current orders will come with the little disc now. Is it even useful? I know it stops pop corning but won't it make it take ages for it to grind the coffee?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Raymondlin said:


> Thanks, and I take it all current orders will come with the little disc now. Is it even useful? I know it stops pop corning but won't it make it take ages for it to grind the coffee?


 you have obviously researched this grinder then......LOL


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

To me and you maybe maybe not. When I get one I will let you know


----------



## Raymondlin (Apr 16, 2019)

dfk41 said:


> you have obviously researched this grinder then......LOL


 I've done some research, just curious, so, does it make it take longer? noticeably?


----------



## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Raymondlin said:


> I've done some research, just curious, so, does it make it take longer? noticeably?


 No, it doesn't.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Raymondlin said:


> Thanks, and I take it all current orders will come with the little disc now. Is it even useful? I know it stops pop corning but won't it make it take ages for it to grind the coffee?


 it has also a more important function, you'll find out of you look through the available info


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

My disk is due hopefully anytime soon. Has anyone experienced the top screw unscrewing itself after installing the disk. On the FB Niche group there's quite a few people who experienced that. I'm assuming one just need to tighten a bit more, but someone said that there's not enough thread after installing the disk. Has anyone experienced this here?


----------



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My disk is due hopefully anytime soon. Has anyone experienced the top screw unscrewing itself after installing the disk. On the FB Niche group there's quite a few people who experienced that. I'm assuming one just need to tighten a bit more, but someone said that there's not enough thread after installing the disk. Has anyone experienced this here?


 I haven't had any issues with mine. I put it on around two weeks ago and used it 3-4 times a day since.


----------



## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My disk is due hopefully anytime soon. Has anyone experienced the top screw unscrewing itself after installing the disk. On the FB Niche group there's quite a few people who experienced that. I'm assuming one just need to tighten a bit more, but someone said that there's not enough thread after installing the disk. Has anyone experienced this here?


 Mine is fine. But there was a member here mentioned that his one got unscrewed and he had to re tighten it.


----------



## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My disk is due hopefully anytime soon. Has anyone experienced the top screw unscrewing itself after installing the disk. On the FB Niche group there's quite a few people who experienced that. I'm assuming one just need to tighten a bit more, but someone said that there's not enough thread after installing the disk. Has anyone experienced this here?


 I've not experienced any issues with mine.


----------



## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My disk is due hopefully anytime soon. Has anyone experienced the top screw unscrewing itself after installing the disk. On the FB Niche group there's quite a few people who experienced that. I'm assuming one just need to tighten a bit more, but someone said that there's not enough thread after installing the disk. Has anyone experienced this here?


 No problems with mine either. Just give it a decent nip up by 'snatching' the last 1/8th turn rather than building the torque slowly. It won't crack.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks everyone. One last thing: for those who now use the disk, do you still stir the grinds in the basket or in the cup? I've heard that, because the grinds size are more homogeneous, that step is no longer necessary. What's your experience been so far?


----------



## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks everyone. One last thing: for those who now use the disk, do you still stir the grinds in the basket or in the cup? I've heard that, because the grinds size are more homogeneous, that step is no longer necessary. What's your experience been so far?


 I Don't. Tried both ways. Not necessary imo.


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Inspector said:


> Mine is fine. But there was a member here mentioned that his one got unscrewed and he had to re tighten it.


 I had to re-tighten mine. I was a bit nervous of damaging the disk the first time and probably didn't nip it up enough.


----------



## Raymondlin (Apr 16, 2019)

Stanic said:


> it has also a more important function, you'll find out of you look through the available info


 Flow consistency?

anyhow, I've pulled the trigger on one but there is like a month and a half wait it seems...this lockdown will fee even longer now!

now I need to get a set of decent scales!


----------



## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Mine's been fine, gave it a good 'jerk' tight when installed.


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Raymondlin said:


> Flow consistency?
> 
> anyhow, I've pulled the trigger on one but there is like a month and a half wait it seems...this lockdown will fee even longer now!
> 
> now I need to get a set of decent scales!


 I'm in the same boat regarding delivery 

As for scales I use the Joe Frex ones (500g/0,1), cheap, small and reliable


----------



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks everyone. One last thing: for those who now use the disk, do you still stir the grinds in the basket or in the cup? I've heard that, because the grinds size are more homogeneous, that step is no longer necessary. What's your experience been so far?


 I've stopped stirring. Unlike others I haven't had to tighten the grind or at least not by much.


----------



## Raymondlin (Apr 16, 2019)

Stanic said:


> I'm in the same boat regarding delivery
> 
> As for scales I use the Joe Frex ones (500g/0,1), cheap, small and reliable


 This one?

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/joe-frex-digital-coffee-scales-with-timer.html

But what is the difference to this? Since Joe Frex is out of stock.

https://baristashop.co.uk/products/bs23175?variant=12443416133729&currency=GBP&gclid=CjwKCAjwv4_1BRAhEiwAtMDLssh4CJN3YqV_dQxltWWOTzOoBynfFlFoAqQ3AidussPxhl4GiTGNDxoCaB8QAvD_BwE


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Raymondlin said:


> This one?
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/joe-frex-digital-coffee-scales-with-timer.html
> 
> ...


 No, these https://joefrex.com/products/digital-coffee-scale

The pic shows a previous version, currently they've got a green backlit LCD

Integrated timer is a good addition but guess you've got a phone anyway...

I don't time the shots now but if is a helpful guide in the beginning, for sure


----------



## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks everyone. One last thing: for those who now use the disk, do you still stir the grinds in the basket or in the cup? I've heard that, because the grinds size are more homogeneous, that step is no longer necessary. What's your experience been so far?


 I admit that I've continued stirring the grinds in the basket. On the other hand, I haven't tried without stirring so I don't really know if stirring is necessary, it's just become part of my work flow.


----------



## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I don't think I'll both to get a disc. Reading all the comments it really worth having it? 
Does anyone even notice the difference with it fitted?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nicholasj said:


> I don't think I'll both to get a disc. Reading all the comments it really worth having it?
> Does anyone even notice the difference with it fitted?


 I certainly do think it's worth having. I even did quite a detailed test or splitting grinds into halves to prove to myself that it tightens grind distribution significantly. You possibly missed it.

I do get that it's a lot of money/hassle to get a disk if you feel you're taking a chance and won't get the benefit. Perhaps hang on for 6 months or so and when more have them you can take another look at the feedback from a longer period and more users.


----------



## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I certainly do think it's worth having. I even did quite a detailed test or splitting grinds into halves to prove to myself that it tightens grind distribution significantly. You possibly missed it.
> 
> I do get that it's a lot of money/hassle to get a disk if you feel you're taking a chance and won't get the benefit. Perhaps hang on for 6 months or so and when more have them you can take another look at the feedback from a longer period and more users.


 Ah! Okay. No, I didn't see your test. Have you a link or similar please? Cheers


----------



## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I certainly do think it's worth having. I even did quite a detailed test or splitting grinds into halves to prove to myself that it tightens grind distribution significantly. You possibly missed it.
> 
> I do get that it's a lot of money/hassle to get a disk if you feel you're taking a chance and won't get the benefit. Perhaps hang on for 6 months or so and when more have them you can take another look at the feedback from a longer period and more users.


 It's okay, found the test. So I've bought the disc. Just paid via PayPal usd 9.99 to some guy in China via the Indegogo link. Weird!


----------



## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I can confirm shots taste better with disk installed. Grind distribution definitely tighter, without disk moving from let's say 13 to 15 had almost 10 seconds difference. It is not the case with the disk installed. You can be more precise with disk. The only part i didn't like, with V60 brews you get more fines in 40-45 range tho i need to test this more.



nicholasj said:


> I don't think I'll both to get a disc. Reading all the comments it really worth having it?
> Does anyone even notice the difference with it fitted?


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Well I fitted the disc and left the grind setting as normal at no.11 and it flew through. So I then moved the setting to no. 8 and it was near normal.

On of the beans I use I have had set at no.5 or 6 without the disc, so if I have to tighten it up by a similar smount that means it'll be at no.2 or 3.

Have I calibrated it wrong? As most people seem to be at or around 10.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

TonyJoe said:


> Well I fitted the disc and left the grind setting as normal at no.11 and it flew through. So I then moved the setting to no. 8 and it was near normal.
> 
> On of the beans I use I have had set at no.5 or 6 without the disc, so if I have to tighten it up by a similar smount that means it'll be at no.2 or 3.
> 
> Have I calibrated it wrong? As most people seem to be at or around 10.


 Without disk installed i had beans (decaf) needed grinding at 8 so had to grind at 4 with disk but never at 5-6 range without disk. I dont think it's matter as long as you dont go past 0. It's down to calibration in the end. Some people tightens it more when calibrating some not. You shouldn't worry. Just enjoy your tasty brews


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

With the disk, with the La Pavoni, IMS basket (15g), I'm gridding the LSOL March beans from HasBean at setting 11.


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## njlhyde (Feb 17, 2020)

My Niche is due today. So just to kick off for espresso should I start at grind 5?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

njlhyde said:


> My Niche is due today. So just to kick off for espresso should I start at grind 5?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 first this


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

njlhyde said:


> My Niche is due today. So just to kick off for espresso should I start at grind 5?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Very dependent on the bean you're using and how the grinder is calibrated, but 5 is really bloody fine for me. Finest I've ever had to go I think is 6.

Watch Dave's video and clean out and recalibrate. Maybe start more like 15 and work from there?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TonyJoe said:


> Well I fitted the disc and left the grind setting as normal at no.11 and it flew through. So I then moved the setting to no. 8 and it was near normal.
> 
> On of the beans I use I have had set at no.5 or 6 without the disc, so if I have to tighten it up by a similar smount that means it'll be at no.2 or 3.
> 
> Have I calibrated it wrong? As most people seem to be at or around 10.


 I was between 15-20 for espresso before I fitted the disk and I'm still in that range with the same beans since fitting it.

I also think the disk has improved the flavour.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> With the disk, with the La Pavoni, IMS basket (15g), I'm gridding the LSOL March beans from HasBean at setting 11.


 @MediumRoastSteam Off topic but how do you find the IMS basket for the Pavoni, do you also have the screen?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Nopapercup said:


> @MediumRoastSteam Off topic but how do you find the IMS basket for the Pavoni, do you also have the screen?


I think the IMS screen is great. It has a much finer screen. When I clean and re-lube the group every few months, I find there's hardly any coffee fines build up on the other side, which is great.

As for the basket.... Meh. I wouldn't bother. Personally, I can't say I get any better results in the cup. It's much better build quality than the standard basket, but that's about it.

Ps: I've received the Niche disk and installed it. Really enjoying the results!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm grinding directly into the basket with one of the cheap funnels from amazon. Got mine when the price went down to £12 with prime delivery and it fits perfectly. I move the PF around to get it quite well distributed in the basket then use a toothpick to just level it out, tap straight down and tamp. Might have to experiment with the distributor again but the shots are good so far.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I've done some A/B tests comparing my normal routine of shake+WDT+OCD+tamp with shake+tamp.

For me, my setup, my beans etc (all those caveats) I still do see the benefit of WDT in the basket. What I see is two very similar shots, similar extraction times, no tell-tale disaster signs like doughnut permeation or significant channelling but on average a far more balanced tasting espresso that I put down to what can be seen out of the portafilter at the late stage (last 5s) of the shot which is a "thinner" flow despite a reducing pressure. I'm using a fairly long 12 second pre-infusion which I suspect really helps the shots prepared with no WDT.

So for me, even with the NFC, I'll still give it a quick whisk with my distribution tool in the basket. Totally necessary? No. But I do think it does noticeably improve my shots. The best way to explain it is probably to say I'd not bother if pulling a shot to drink with milk.

Just for info: Colonna Rimiro Natural, [email protected], 12>9>8>7>6bar~, 18>38g in 38-40s. 94c. Niche with NFC at 7.5.


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## Yas90 (Mar 3, 2020)

Hey guys

Got my niche a few days ago.

Anyone else noticed or had problems with loose feet on the niche.

2 of the feet appear to be loose and I'm able to rotate them.

Any fixes?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Yas90 said:


> Hey guys
> Got my niche a few days ago.
> Anyone else noticed or had problems with loose feet on the niche.
> 2 of the feet appear to be loose and I'm able to rotate them.
> Any fixes?


What's the "problem"? It's the same on mine, all of them are loose in fact.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

It will run away  , mine were the same rotating wooden feet.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

They spin but the rubber feet are fine.


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## Yas90 (Mar 3, 2020)

Ah brilliant...its not a "problem" then. Maybe I just expected a £500 machine not to have rotating legs/feet/wheels

Carry on.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Yas90 said:


> Ah brilliant...its not a "problem" then. Maybe I just expected a £500 machine not to have rotating legs/feet/wheels
> 
> Carry on.


Hasn't been a problem to me. I just trust Niche's design. Maybe related to shock absorption and static dissipation... you never know!


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## Yas90 (Mar 3, 2020)

Hahahaha

It's not an issue.

On a different point, what a great grinder!


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## njlhyde (Feb 17, 2020)

I've had my Niche for one week and I am very pleased with it. Just one problem it that the central nut (under the lid) has worked loose a couple of times.
It has been ok for a couple of days after I tightened it up the second time, but wondered if anyone had found the same issue or has any suggestions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

No issue. What you tightening it with.


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## njlhyde (Feb 17, 2020)

The Niche came with a 10mm socket/ screw driver - not sure what the terminology is.
I've ran three or four doses through and it's still tight. Whereas before it would undo itself on one grind dose after re-tightening.
I'm hoping it wasn't tight enough before.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

My niche didn't come with a bloody screwdriver, had to buy one myself. Who do I complain to?!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Me too.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I demand a £0.49 refund! How dare they not provide such essential tools?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

njlhyde said:


> The Niche came with a 10mm socket/ screw driver - not sure what the terminology is.
> I've ran three or four doses through and it's still tight. Whereas before it would undo itself on one grind dose after re-tightening.
> I'm hoping it wasn't tight enough before.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I've installed the disk last week, so far so good! The nut is nice and tight, no issues so far.

Maybe they didn't tighten enough from the factory.


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## Vollbart (Jan 27, 2019)

I've been enjoying my Niche for just over a year now and still very happy with it.

Something strange just happened that I haven't really investigated yet. I've recently been switching between an espresso grind and a coarser grind for V60 once a day. The Niche has been coping with this fine and it's been a doddle. But today turning the grind back has resulted in a really fast flowing espresso shot and the burr adjustment feels easier/looser than before. I'd have to tighten the grind up much more than the setting I'd consistently been using for these beans.

Any idea what's happened? I installed the disc a couple of weeks ago and after reading a few posts above I've checked the retaining bolt and it's not loose.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Just return it back to Zero, then re calibrate did you try that.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

It's likely your calibration mark has been moved (black ring). I strongly recommend everyone after they have calibrated their burrs put a masking tape and a dot on it where it is, so even though you move it by mistake its so easy to come back to point without need of cleaning and recalibration.


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Inspector said:


> It's likely your calibration mark has been moved (black ring). I strongly recommend everyone after they have calibrated their burrs put a masking tape and a dot on it where it is, so even though you move it by mistake its so easy to come back to point without need of cleaning and recalibration.
> 
> View attachment 39302


 Snap. I put a bit of tape so always have my reference point


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## Joe shorrock (Nov 18, 2019)

What was the delivery like on the niche? When did they send you shipping confirmation.. on the June delivery list


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## Vollbart (Jan 27, 2019)

Yep it was as simple as that, must have knocked the ring out of alignment. Thanks for the tips!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

It has been a few weeks since I have installed the disk.

However, I find I still have to stir the grinds in the portafilter well. This is with a La Pavoni machine using a bottomless PF.

If I don't, it channels (spritzers) really badly.


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

I had the disc installed for a few weeks in April but really wasn't getting along with it very well... Shot consistency went down the drain and I was getting channeling much more often, and taste was poor as a consequence.

Been running it without it for the last few weeks and all is well. It could well be my technique as I heard it can be less forgiving with the disc installed. I might try it again at some point in the future but I am very happy with the workflow and taste of the coffee without it at the moment.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Fines probably help you with channeling, you will get beautiful extractions but taste?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I've only ever used my Niche for espresso but recently I've used it for filter. When going back to my espresso setting it is totally out. I know not to move the black ring and just turn the silver part. I tightened the ring fully and re calibrated, turned back to filter setting and back to the calibration mark, again it's totally out. Anyone else notice the black ring slipping and anything I should be doing differently?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Mine is fine 2/3 times a day I do it.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Like Jony I regularly use mine for going back and forth and have often commented on how repeatable it is so certainly no problems here, what do you mean by "totally out"?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

catpuccino said:


> Like Jony I regularly use mine for going back and forth and have often commented on how repeatable it is so certainly no problems here, what do you mean by "totally out"?


 Probably up to 5 numbers out just from rotating it. The plastic ring must be sticking or slipping slightly. I'll take it apart give it a clean and see if there's anything obvious.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Just put a tape on silver part and a dot on it, above the black ring dot. Like I did, picture is few posts above.

With this, you can identify if it is a slippage problem.


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm going to order a Niche zero , how long will it take to arrive? I've waited 4 weeks so far for a Mahlgut tamp, waiting isnt an issue but would like an idea

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Order away.


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## Joe shorrock (Nov 18, 2019)

Dave double bean said:


> I'm going to order a Niche zero , how long will it take to arrive? I've waited 4 weeks so far for a Mahlgut tamp, waiting isnt an issue but would like an idea
> 
> Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk


 White - August delivery has sold out atm

black - August delievery aswell atm


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## Squidgyblack (Nov 18, 2019)

The best thing to do is just order as soon as possible. The slots sell out faster than you'd imagine. I was contemplating over finally picking one up for about a week when there was June slots available, and by the time I'd pulled the trigger it was into the August slots, which the white is gone now for too.

If you're ok with using an adapter there's still July spots for the EU version.


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm happy with black.. Will be ordering in a few weeks

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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Inspector said:


> Just put a tape on silver part and a dot on it, above the black ring dot. Like I did, picture is few posts above.
> 
> With this, you can identify if it is a slippage problem.


 Good idea, I'll try this thanks


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Nopapercup said:


> Good idea, I'll try this thanks


I adjusted mine a full turn for cold brew last week. I checked to see if it would turn back to the calibration mark and it was about 5 numbers short.

After a bit of back and forth and spinning the grinder up, it did go back. Might be worth trying that. Take care not to spin when the burrs might be touching etc.

I rarely move it from espresso so it's not a big deal for me.

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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

It doesn't need to go back to the calibration mark, it doesn't affect grind setting.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> It doesn't need to go back to the calibration mark, it doesn't affect grind setting.


True. But if you need to recalibrate for whatever reason then it does ideally need to get back to same place.

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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> Good idea, I'll try this thanks


 I do the same so never in wrong position.

I switch between espresso, espro, V60 and coffee bags all day and so far no problems.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Recently, now they I have the disk in place, I've started dosing directly into the portafilter.

If it only me or shots seem to be more consistent, when observing the pour from a naked PF?


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> My niche didn't come with a bloody screwdriver, had to buy one myself. Who do I complain to?!


 You had to buy a screwdriver! I had to buy a screwdriver and a disc!!😂😂


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

TonyJoe said:


> You had to buy a screwdriver! I had to buy a screwdriver and a disc!!😂😂


 I can sympathize with you. I'm still reeling from the shock of the financial burden caused by having to purchase these essential items. 😀😁


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Recently, now they I have the disk in place, I've started dosing directly into the portafilter.
> 
> If it only me or shots seem to be more consistent, when observing the pour from a naked PF?


 No my pours still look disgusting. Taste great though. I have a theory I'll be testing tomorrow.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

So my theory was roughly as follows:

Extractions looks great, bead evenly, form a single stream, pour evenly and then suddenly after about 20g the bottomless goes all patchy. There's no spurting and still one stream but it looks like the coffee is only coming out of some holes and it looks thin and ugly. I've only ever seen this with light or older roasts really. This happens at various grind settings with long and short pre-infusion, slow and quick pressure ramp ups, 9 bar and 6 bar max etc and 17-20g doses in two different baskets with two different shower screens, oh and with the OPV set to max pressures of 11 and 9.5 bar.

The ugly extractions on a bottomless might be showing some channeling or the puck being eroded. I was thinking, most of the extraction happens early. What if after extracting 20g the coffee has already given up most of what is easily soluble and after that I'm mainly diluting. So yesterday I ground fine enough to get an ugly 45g shot from a 20g dose in 38 seconds. Today I decided to try something different. Rather than continue the shot as the pour starts to look bad I'll stop it, taste it, and add hot water to bring it to the same dilution as the previous shots.....so I pulled a 20g shot from a 20g dose after a long pre-infusion. The total shot time was 28 seconds. Tasted very strong but not under extracted surprisingly. I added water to bring it up to about 40g to account for what I'd tasted and was pretty surprised by the flavour. Not the same at all as the longer shot but cleaner, fruitier, and a bit funky.

Tasting notes for my typical shots have been something like this: pleasant bitter-sweet-tangy first, then fruity, sweet, slight milk chocolate, fat mouthfeel.....(tasting notes on the bag; Blood orange acidity, melted milk chocolate mouthfeel, sugar cane sweetness, strawberry, florals). I got the strawberry and florals in the early days but not now. Weirdly the ristretto diluted brought back some of those strawberry and floral notes.

I'm not sure I'll try this again with this coffee because I'm liking my ugly shots probably more than the diluted ristretto but it was an interesting experiment anyway.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Sounds like micro channeling possible , really fine ground coffee blocking up holes in the basket ...used to see it alot with the EK.

I don't see alot of this with the Niche, how rested is the coffee you are using may I ask ? And I suspect it will vary dependent on the coffee, origin and roast used .

This may be a function of flow profiling though as opposed to pressure profiling . I can grind lighter roasted decaf at 3-4 on the nice and get picture perfect pours .

Here is some friendly advice.i often post what I think is friendly advice and get accused of being patronising , please it is not my intention .

1. Use spouts , enjoy your coffee more.

2. Extraction over and under is measurement. Your 20g in and 20g out shot will be "under extracted " ie under 18% extortion yield. For me strong shots like this are often difficulty to judge flavours on . You may not equate it's taste with what you perceive to be under extraction as not all under extraction tastes the same . There can be sweetness in shots around 16% extraction for example .

This is not directed at your post but I see posts, youtube videos by "professionals" like Sprometheus, where people label a shot as under or over extracted when no measurement has actually taken place ( that is ok ) and very often they are simply equating sour and bitter to one under and over extraction incorrectly .

It doesn't matter if you like a shot that is 20g on 20g out or 20g in and 100g out, that's personal preference . What can be misleading is that people ( and again not you ) label their shot over extracted and ask for help , when it actual fact these are nearly always never over extracted is using the measure of over 21%. But people then give advice based on the fact that you need to do X to an over extracted shot .

As an side a 1:2 shot is hardly ever likely to be over extracted, it may taste strong or bitter, which is not the same thing .

Cheers


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Sounds like micro channeling possible , really fine ground coffee blocking up holes in the basket ...used to see it alot with the EK.
> 
> I don't see alot of this with the Niche, how rested is the coffee you are using may I ask ? And I suspect it will vary dependent on the coffee, origin and roast used .
> 
> ...


 0. It's only two weeks old now. It's a very dense coffee light-medium roast. The 18g VST would comfortably hold 20g. Probably not particularly suitable for espresso.

1. Absolutely not. I'm enjoying it as is and don't worry about how the shot looks.....although spouts would help to remove some crema I guess so might make it better. hmm

2. I know, I tell people the same thing. When I said it tasted "very strong but not under extracted" I meant I was expecting it to taste sour and weirdly thin/salty, and it didn't, I'm aware it very likely was a low EY anyway. I must get a refractometer at some point to satisfy my curiosity.

I did assume the holes in the basket were being clogged with fines but don't know how that will influence extraction. I've tried adjusting the grind setting up to 10 notches coarser. It still happens at various stages, and eventually the shot just gushes through.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> 0. It's only two weeks old now. It's a very dense coffee light-medium roast. The 18g VST would comfortably hold 20g. Probably not particularly suitable for espresso.
> 
> 1. Absolutely not. I'm enjoying it as is and don't worry about how the shot looks.....although spouts would help to remove some crema I guess so might make it better. hmm
> 
> ...


 I never use coffee under two weeks for espresso , personally preference nowadays .

I have found even now , after many years it can be hard to distract the visual from the taste though .

Example Re under extracted is a shot is 1:1 for it to be "over extracted " it would need to be 18 tds plus, i once tasted a shot that was 18 Tds, i couldn't make anything out at all 

I think alot of the picture perfect naked extractions that get posed are medium plus , south mercian coffee that look gear when pulling but hey ....

My Ek43 shots never looked great and at times the cup looked like a curry house toilet on a saturday night but hey . still drink em


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> As an side a 1:2 shot is hardly ever likely to be over extracted, it may taste strong or bitter, which is not the same thing .
> 
> Cheers


 What is the best approach to fix if 1:2 shot tastes bitter? Lower the temp or ground coarser and make shot faster?


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

What baskets are you using? Vst baskets are optimised for their stated dose

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Inspector said:


> What is the best approach to fix if 1:2 shot tastes bitter? Lower the temp or ground coarser and make shot faster?


 Change the ratio . Are you tied to 1:2 for a particular reason?

It's unlikely to be a function of over extraction at a 1:2 .

Extraction isn't a linear path of sour>sweet>bitter .

Plus I it could just be a function of the roast level of your coffee.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Inspector said:


> What is the best approach to fix if 1:2 shot tastes bitter? Lower the temp or ground coarser and make shot faster?


 @MWJB


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Inspector said:


> What is the best approach to fix if 1:2 shot tastes bitter? Lower the temp or ground coarser and make shot faster?


 Difficult to generalise without context. What are the parameters of this bitter shot?

But, usually (assuming the coffee itself is good), unpleasant bitterness can be caused by grinding too fine & too much silt in the cup, low side of normal extraction (just past sourness, but not quite into the big hump), over-extraction of very soluble coffee (bizarrely dark/old).

So, I guess grind coarser and see what happens?

Shot time has a wide tolerance, so making the shot faster/slower isn't a reliable way to do things, just focus on grind setting vs taste.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Change the ratio . Are you tied to 1:2 for a particular reason?
> 
> It's unlikely to be a function of over extraction at a 1:2 .
> 
> ...


 No, i am not tied to 1:2 for a particular reason. It is just most of the time coffee tastes good with 1:2 or 1:2.5 and i like the mouthfeel of it if i go beyond 1:2.5 espresso tastes watery and diluted (most of the time)



MWJB said:


> Difficult to generalise without context. What are the parameters of this bitter shot?
> 
> But, usually (assuming the coffee itself is good), unpleasant bitterness can be caused by grinding too fine & too much silt in the cup, low side of normal extraction (just past sourness, but not quite into the big hump), over-extraction of very soluble coffee (bizarrely dark/old).
> 
> ...


 Coffee is 9 days old. A40 Brazilian Ipanema CC. Past medium roast i'd say.

15.5grms in in a 15VST 30-32 out in about 30 seconds.

Keep the dose-grind same but reduce temp or

grind coarser&get 30-32 gr out (first thing i will try tomorrow)

Or just keep grind setting same and dose less, lets say 14 or 14.5 grms in basket.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Inspector said:


> Coffee is 9 days old. A40 Brazilian Ipanema CC. Past medium roast i'd say.
> 
> 15.5grms in in a 15VST 30-32 out in about 30 seconds.
> 
> ...


 Why do you want to change so many inputs in one go?

What is your grind setting (this is what dictates extraction at the same dose & ratio).

30s isn't a particularly long time for a 1:2 shot & Brazils aren't the most soluble of coffees, go finer 15.5 & 32 out.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> .... My Ek43 shots never looked great and at times the cup looked like a curry house toilet on a saturday night but hey . still drink em


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> xtractions looks great, bead evenly, form a single stream, pour evenly and then suddenly after about 20g the bottomless goes all patchy. There's no spurting and still one stream but it looks like the coffee is only coming out of some holes and it looks thin and ugly. I've only ever seen this with light or older roasts really. This happens at various grind settings with long and short pre-infusion, slow and quick pressure ramp ups, 9 bar and 6 bar max etc and 17-20g doses in two different baskets with two different shower screens, oh and with the OPV set to max pressures of 11 and 9.5 bar.


 I've experienced this also, a little more recently with a few lighter roasts. Haven't had the brain space to think much about it. Taste is great.


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## GaryM (Aug 1, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> I never use coffee under two weeks for espresso , personally preference nowadays .
> 
> I have found even now , after many years it can be hard to distract the visual from the taste though .
> 
> ...


 Never less than 2 weeks old? Really?

I've recently purchased a Kaffelogic roaster and am enjoying learning about the subtleties of profile variation. Of note is that Kaffelogic hold that fresher is best, and that means consume within 2 or three days and roast regularly. They quote Scott Rao on this.

I'm finding that at day two or three I'm getting the best results, after that things begin to flatten out.

Certainly no age related effects on flow consistency.

Using Niche and Vibiemme Domobar Junior


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

GaryM said:


> Never less than 2 weeks old? Really?
> 
> I've recently purchased a Kaffelogic roaster and am enjoying learning about the subtleties of profile variation. Of note is that Kaffelogic hold that fresher is best, and that means consume within 2 or three days and roast regularly. They quote Scott Rao on this.


 Really. This is the first you've heard it? Not sure what the Rao quote is but I'd be surprised if it related to small batch air roasters. The general consensus is that for espresso resting is necessary. There's at least one successful roaster that rests their beans for 30 days before using in their cafes.


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## GaryM (Aug 1, 2016)

Rob1 said:


> Really. This is the first you've heard it? Not sure what the Rao quote is but I'd be surprised if it related to small batch air roasters. The general consensus is that for espresso resting is necessary. There's at least one successful roaster that rests their beans for 30 days before using in their cafes.


 OK, so rested and sealed from any oxygen? Oxidation can do a lot of damage in 30 days. There is only one way to find out. I will roast a batch and seal it away for 30 days then report back.


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## GaryM (Aug 1, 2016)

Rob1 said:


> Really. This is the first you've heard it? Not sure what the Rao quote is but I'd be surprised if it related to small batch air roasters. The general consensus is that for espresso resting is necessary. There's at least one successful roaster that rests their beans for 30 days before using in their cafes.


 And here is what Kaffelogic have to say...

https://kaffelogic.com/index.php/home/howto/resting


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

> Espresso often benefits from a longer rest, so if you are making espresso you might want to try keeping some coffee around for a week or more to see how it ages.
> 
> *The background*
> Coffee ages faster in warmer temperatures, perhaps 1.5x faster for each 10 deg C warmer (Illy et al, p 238). Darker roasts age faster than lighter roasts (Rao, p 70). Changes in chemical makeup of coffee start immediately after roasting with the first 5 days being the most dramatic, leveling off after about 20 days (Illy et al, fig 6.8, p 242).
> ...


 Pulled this from their website. Nothing new. Consensus is espresso benefits from longer resting times. What minimum resting time is necessary varies a lot depending on who you ask.



> OK, so rested and sealed from any oxygen?


 Yes, in an airtight sealed bag. I'd cover over any one way valve too after a couple of days.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Resting coffee...they are suggesting leaving it in the bag quite awhile longer...going to have to completely alter the ordering schedule 

https://www.lacabra.dk/blogs/news/we-should-be-resting-our-coffee

https://www.deargreencoffee.com/blogs/news/give-it-a-rest


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

GaryM said:


> Never less than 2 weeks old? Really?
> 
> I've recently purchased a Kaffelogic roaster and am enjoying learning about the subtleties of profile variation. Of note is that Kaffelogic hold that fresher is best, and that means consume within 2 or three days and roast regularly. They quote Scott Rao on this.
> 
> ...


 Yes , never less than two weeks old.

Be guided by your own experience and taste as I am , but I don't use beans for espresso before two weeks.

There are lots of people, pushing lots of opinions, me included I guess, and i think it's about trying stuff and making your own mind up.

I used to do 7 days rest then watched this and changed my timings as a result of tasting.


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## grumble (Mar 16, 2020)

I think it must depend on the roast and the beans but I've had some that were borderline undrinkable until 3-4 weeks after roasting.

Some of the funky Ethiopian naturals can be a bit 'barnyard' until they've settled down also imo. I don't actually mind it but some people hate it.


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## GaryM (Aug 1, 2016)

> 1 hour ago, Mrboots2u said:
> 
> Yes , never less than two weeks old.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for your reply, I will experiment further.


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## peterLAN (Jun 9, 2020)

I recently bought a Niche Zero a few weeks back, and after grinding through 2kg I wanted to dump my numbers, with a mini-review.

TL;DR:
- Retention after ~2kg of coffee and 84 grinds averaged at 0,045g, 95th percentile of grind retention is 0.1g
- Grind uniformity is great with the FCD installed.
- Tasted coffees on V60 02, Kalita 185, Aeropress. Consistently better results than from an Encore.
- Dialing in (still) takes me longer than with the Encore.

*Tasting*

I tried each two recipes for the v60, the Aeropress and the Kalita, with a few people. Only surprise: Hoffman's v60-method on the Kalita is not as great as expected. The recorded numbers are the avg of each tasting scored 1 - 10.


```
| Baratza Encore | Niche Zero
v60: Hoffmann                    | 8              | 9
v60: 4-6                         | 8.5            | 9
AP: WAC 2018                     | 9              | 9
AP: 1:10 20g 92°C                | 9              | 9
Kalita: 1:13.5 28g, 5 pulse pour | 8.5            | 9.5
Kalita: Hoffmann v60             | 8              | 8.5
```
 *Grinding*
In total, 2010g of coffee went through my Niche, and 2006.4g* have come out, in 84 grindings. In average, 0.045g were retained (for the number nerds: 95th is 0.1g, unsurprisingly). I measured all these results on my Acaia Pearl S.
*) I've cleaned the Niche a few times, so there are not magically 4g of coffee hidden in this grinder, but have been removed during cleaning.

On the few siftings with a Cruve the Niche was WAY better than the Encore in terms of fines. In terms of "coarses" the Niche has less a lead, but is noticably better. I should have recorded the weights, but you'll have to take my word on this.

*Dialing in*
I am no fan of the indices on the Niche. So far, it has taken me more brews than on the Baratza Encore to dial in new coffees. I've gotten better, but I'm still not where I was.

I think the Niche is a great grinder, it's a pleasure to use. My results with the Encore were already satisfying, but I still noticed a step up in taste, so I'm happy about my purchase. This is obviously by no means a professional review. If you are interested in anything particular, please let me know, I'll be happy to caffeinate me by finding out.

(Disclaimer: This is a bit of a cross-post from home-barista, for those of you who linger in both forums)


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

peterLAN said:


> I recently bought a Niche Zero a few weeks back, and after grinding through 2kg I wanted to dump my numbers, with a mini-review.
> 
> TL;DR:
> - Retention after ~2kg of coffee and 84 grinds averaged at 0,045g, 95th percentile of grind retention is 0.1g
> ...


 The hardest thing for me to understand about this is how you're finding it harder to dial in. I'd have thought it would be easier with bigger burrs.

I switched espresso beans the other day from a month old PNG to a two week old Ethiopian, turned about 5 notches coarser and got a good shot straight away, improved it with a small adjustment coarser and now it's done. I've done a Syphon brew with it and found the markings to be spot on for that but haven't brewed any other method aside from the Sowden (which probably doesn't count), and not with any regularity.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I find 1 mark finer generally adds around 3 seconds to the pour. So it's real fast to dial in after the first shot with a new coffee.


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

jscott said:


> I had the disc installed for a few weeks in April but really wasn't getting along with it very well... Shot consistency went down the drain and I was getting channeling much more often, and taste was poor as a consequence.
> 
> Been running it without it for the last few weeks and all is well. It could well be my technique as I heard it can be less forgiving with the disc installed. I might try it again at some point in the future but I am very happy with the workflow and taste of the coffee without it at the moment.


 So I reinstalled the disc a couple of weeks ago, cleaning the grinder completely when I did, and I have just had to remove it again today. I really cannot get any sort of consistency with the disc installed.

I make two shots back to back with exactly the same grind setting.. this morning the first was 17g in/34g out in 25 seconds, the second was over 45+ seconds with no change in the grind setting at all. Changing the grind setting by less than half a mark can change the time by over 10 seconds, it just seems really sensitive and unpredictable. I go back and forth between two types of beans (caff and decaf) every day so its important that I can go back to the previous grind setting. This seems OK again now I have removed the disc...

I wonder if installing the disc highlighted an underlying problem with the grinder? I noticed there are wear marks on the inside of the grinder where the outer burr appears to have been touching the inside chamber of the grinder, but I'm not sure if that could be related.

I emailed Niche this morning to see what they think.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I have those wear marks as well on my niche. Never thought it's a problem.

I had them on my flat grinders too. I think sweeping arms causing it.


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

Inspector said:


> I have those wear marks as well on my niche. Never thought it's a problem.
> 
> I had them on my flat grinders too. I think sweeping arms causing it.


 Good to know, thanks. I didn't think that would be causing the issue.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Inspector said:


> I have those wear marks as well on my niche. Never thought it's a problem.
> 
> I had them on my flat grinders too. I think sweeping arms causing it.





jscott said:


> Good to know, thanks. I didn't think that would be causing the issue.


 Same on mine and I've no such issues so yep I think safe to ignore this.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

jscott said:


> So I reinstalled the disc a couple of weeks ago, cleaning the grinder completely when I did, and I have just had to remove it again today. I really cannot get any sort of consistency with the disc installed.
> 
> I make two shots back to back with exactly the same grind setting.. this morning the first was 17g in/34g out in 25 seconds, the second was over 45+ seconds with no change in the grind setting at all. Changing the grind setting by less than half a mark can change the time by over 10 seconds, it just seems really sensitive and unpredictable. I go back and forth between two types of beans (caff and decaf) every day so its important that I can go back to the previous grind setting. This seems OK again now I have removed the disc...
> 
> ...


 I've never seen anything like that (shot time variation). I think small changes to grind setting can make a big difference in certain circumstances which probably applies to all grinders.

Your signature indicates you're using the flow control valve on your machine, is it possible you had a long pre infusion for one shot and just left the valve open for the second or were inconsistent in some other way?


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> I've never seen anything like that (shot time variation). I think small changes to grind setting can make a big difference in certain circumstances which probably applies to all grinders.
> 
> Your signature indicates you're using the flow control valve on your machine, is it possible you had a long pre infusion for one shot and just left the valve open for the second or were inconsistent in some other way?


 I had the same thought about the flow control valve so I made sure to remove that as a variable. I set the valve to the stock flow rate (~7.5 ml/s) and reinstalled the original spring to get the stock pre-infusion; it was still inconsistent with the disc installed.

I have been running it without the NFC disc since yesterday and it seems to have gone back to normal, only +/- 2 seconds between back to back shots and easy to dial in.

I don't mind running it without the disc as that the way the grinder was when I bought it and I am very happy with it. It just concerns me a little that the issues I am seeing with the disk could be highlighting an underlying issue. James from Niche replied to my email this morning, they said they will discuss it tomorrow and if it comes to it I could send the grinder back to see what they think. Hopefully it is something simple!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Is it the decaf that's variable or both?


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Is it the decaf that's variable or both?


 All beans I have tried, both caffeinated and decaf (all fresh beans within a month from roast but rested for at least 7 days).


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Sorry let me just get it clear.

You tried multiple different coffees, both caf and decaf?

You've dialled each one in to different grind settings to achieve what you want?

But you come to pull two shots of the same bean back to back, same dose chucked into the grinder and ground up and all that, and you see massive variance in shot times? Have you weighed the grinds to check for consistency? I'd expect it would have to be out by at least a gram to see 10+ second differences. I've seen people on facebook clogging their grinders up and getting a lot of retention with very fine grinds, light roasts and decaf.

So...the only thing I can think of is you're having to grind too fine with the disc installed and it's clogging the grinder up or producing too many fines. I asked if it was just decaf because I believe you tend to have to grind very fine with decaf usually? And if it's happening with ordinary beans it could be they're a very light roast or high density, or just a varietal that needs a crazy fine grind.

Otherwise, pass. No idea what could be causing it. I can't see anything logically related to the disc. I have found myself there can easily be prep issues with light roasts that can cause significant variation in shot times even when seeming to do everything the same, but obviously can't say if that's what's causing it for you. Fortunately I don't drink them that often. If you had a kruve you'd be able to test the consistency and see if it was way out from one grind to the next.


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## jscott (Jun 25, 2019)

Yeah - I am also quite confused.

Multiple different coffees. Dialled in as best as I could. Two back to back coffees (with any bean), can be 10-15 seconds difference between the two shots. I weigh into the grinder but must admit I haven't weighed the output, would be a good idea to test this if I reinstall the disk. Would be interesting to see the grind results with a kruve but I don't have one unfortunately.

All the beans I have at the moment are medium/dark - given the problems I was having I thought it would be best to keep clear of lighter roasts at the moment. Caff - Rave Signature and decaf currently Hasbean's offering, but previously was using Rave's decafs as well. I am quite fine on the grind setting, but the grinder has always needed this since new; around 7-8 for the Signature beans and around 6 for the Decaf that I am using at the moment, but I have even been towards 0 with ligher roasts in the past. Interestingly my father just received his Niche this week and is using grind setting 18 for Rave Signature beans, same dose, also using a Profitec E61 machine. I know grind settings will be different grinder to grinder but 10 grind settings finer seems quite a lot? Both grinders are calibrated. I am probably going off track here but trying to consider everything!

At least it seems OK without the disk....!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The thing with comparing different grind settings is the grinder can be calibrated to 0 by 4-5 notches difference, and over time as the burrs break in you'll need a different grind setting. I used to grind around 15-22 and now grind around 7-15ish (with admittedly a wider range of coffees and with the nfc installed).

...but the calibration has changed so that's fairly meaningless. Had to go down to 0 at one point and then I cleaned the grinder, recalibrated and started grinding about 8 so it's not unusual. Whenever I clean now I'm careful not to touch the black ring so I don't have to recalibrate and dial in again.


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## Caffeinated_fiend (Apr 15, 2020)

Hi all,

Ive had my Niche for just under a week now, previously I was using the grinder in my Sage Barista Pro which for the most part did a decent job. I have noticed with the niche that when the coffee starts to extract it always has an easier time getting through the niche grounds that it did with the Pro grinder. I usually do a 5 second pre-infusion with the Barista pro and then in total when starting a new bean I aim for 1:2 ratio in around 30 seconds including the pre-infusion to get an idea where I need to be.

On the niche using a bottomless portafilter I usually have drips at 5 seconds whereas on the pro grinder I probably would see anything till around 7-8 seconds and I'm thinking this is related to fines?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Ive had my Niche for just under a week now, previously I was using the grinder in my Sage Barista Pro which for the most part did a decent job. I have noticed with the niche that when the coffee starts to extract it always has an easier time getting through the niche grounds that it did with the Pro grinder. I usually do a 5 second pre-infusion with the Barista pro and then in total when starting a new bean I aim for 1:2 ratio in around 30 seconds including the pre-infusion to get an idea where I need to be.
> 
> On the niche using a bottomless portafilter I usually have drips at 5 seconds whereas on the pro grinder I probably would see anything till around 7-8 seconds and I'm thinking this is related to fines?


 It's not worth over thinking this aspect in all honesty


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Well it could just be you were grinding finer with the sage...

5 seconds is pretty short for a pre-infusion, I tend not to see coffee forming on the bottom of the filter until 10 seconds or more. But whatever works for you.


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## Caffeinated_fiend (Apr 15, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Well it could just be you were grinding finer with the sage...
> 
> 5 seconds is pretty short for a pre-infusion, I tend not to see coffee forming on the bottom of the filter until 10 seconds or more. But whatever works for you.


 I think 5 seconds was the default when using the volumetric button so I just kept it to that when on manual, I seem to be between 14.5 to 16 on the niche. The niche gives me a more stable shot compared to the pro, on the pro it would generally speed up during the second half of the shot whereas the niche tends to remain more or less the same all the way through.

Does it matter if the coffee is dripping through on the pre-infusion? Could try 10 seconds and see what effect it has.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

so, I had the Niche for 5 days now, very happy with it

used it for espresso only so far set at around 12, grinding directly to the PF with dosing ring on the basket, then stir, distribute and tamp, 15g in 15g VST, picture perfect pours every time and great coffee..the grinder also looks great and is very quiet and easy to clean

such a great grinder indeed 👍


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Stanic said:


> so, I had the Niche for 5 days now, very happy with it
> used it for espresso only so far set at around 12, grinding directly to the PF with dosing ring on the basket, then stir, distribute and tamp, 15g in 15g VST, picture perfect pours every time and great coffee..the grinder also looks great and is very quiet and easy to clean
> such a great grinder indeed


I had also started grinding directly into the PF. Providing the funnel is tall enough (3cm min) and the NFC disk is installed, I find the workflow is spot on and mess free. i tried with a shorter dosing funnel and it was a mess.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I've defeated the NFC disk.

...ok it of course fits when rotated, but this large El Salvador SO certainly takes a little longer to flow through!


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I want to see pictures of those grinding directly into the PF. When I tried it, it was a real mess. Maybe I should have another go...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Apr1985 (Apr 18, 2020)

richwade80 said:


> I want to see pictures of those grinding directly into the PF. When I tried it, it was a real mess. Maybe I should have another go...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Deep funnel helps 😀


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## thusband (Nov 19, 2015)

Anybody ever use one of these funnels with your NZ? He's out of stock right now but they look well made and have magnets embedded in the base which I thought was pretty clever.


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## bpappas (Dec 21, 2018)

51mm deep funnel into bottomless portafilter. No stand needed.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

bpappas said:


> 51mm deep funnel into bottomless portafilter. No stand needed.
> <img alt="DeeperFunnel.thumb.jpg.5e962a6647c301f64be42d486c41c5c5.jpg" data-fileid="41802" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_06/DeeperFunnel.thumb.jpg.5e962a6647c301f64be42d486c41c5c5.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Thanks.

Do you find you get lots of staticky bits flying over the top? I found that you needed a tall dosing ring to have any chance of stopping that. Admittedly that was a yoghurt pot...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bpappas (Dec 21, 2018)

I have little static, but I find a need to "spritz" a small amount in the winter, when humidity is low.


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## Joe shorrock (Nov 18, 2019)

Deep funnel works for me


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

So question please. If you need new burrs or other parts can you buy them? May be silly but i can not find on google a supplier for stock or prices..


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The burrs are kony burrs. As for anything else it looks like it will probably become available from niche spares (where they sell the nfc disc)...i think right now you can just contact them if you need something.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> The burrs are kony burrs. As for anything else it looks like it will probably become available from niche spares (where they sell the nfc disc)...i think right now you can just contact them if you need something.


 Cheers Rob. I was kind of thinking if you had a miss hap say a stone missed among the beans how easy and fast rectification would be 👍


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Border_all said:


> Cheers Rob. I was kind of thinking if you had a miss hap say a stone missed among the beans how easy and fast rectification would be 👍


 Fortunately its design is such that a stone shock stopping the grinder shouldn't damage anything apart from the burrs. It "might" chip the burr...in truth possibly not, again because of its design and those burrs are tuff.

P.S. I think it's great there are no parts listed for sale (yet), think about that one!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> P.S. I think it's great there are no parts listed for sale (yet), think about that one!


 My thoughts exactly. As soon as they get reports of a number of motors failing or whatever you'll probably see replacement parts listed.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> My thoughts exactly. As soon as they get reports of a number of motors failing or whatever you'll probably see replacement parts listed.


 Probably, also if you can't buy something how do you pay for it?


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Probably, also if you can't buy something how do you pay for it?


 With great difficulty 😁


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Fortunately its design is such that a stone shock stopping the grinder shouldn't damage anything apart from the burrs. It "might" chip the burr...in truth possibly not, again because of its design and those burrs are tuff.
> 
> P.S. I think it's great there are no parts listed for sale (yet), think about that one!


 Looks like i am a campaign backer September hopefully new white Niche. Just hope they keep trading. You can see my nervous disposition on show again 😂😂😂


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Hi all,

Been considering a Niche recently as i've been soldiering on with an Ascaso i-mini for about 8 years now and I think I can justify an upgrade!

Would be good to check in with any secondhand owners, as a bit of a sense check for me more than anything! I'm considering second hand so I can get one before September - anything specifically to loook out for on these grinders?


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Hi all,

Does anybody use the Niche to grind beans for a Bialetti Mocha pot? A work colleague has been using pre ground and wants me to grind some of the beans I use so they sample the coffee in the Bialetti.

The beans they wanted to sample, I grind on no.8 for espresso. Would anybody have any idea what number to use as a starter? Some opinions seem to say espresso (ish) grind size and I've seen others that say drip grind size.

Apologies in advance if posted in wrong section.

Cheers


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Try 50.


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I use 28 to 32.


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Thank you Davec and Clive for your replies. I think I'll do a sample of each for my colleague and see if she prefers one or the other.

Many thanks again

cheers


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

bpappas said:


> 51mm deep funnel into bottomless portafilter. No stand needed.
> 
> View attachment 41802





Joe shorrock said:


> Deep funnel works for me
> 
> View attachment 41806


 Where are you guys getting these massive funnels?


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

B-Roadie said:


> Where are you guys getting these massive funnels?


 This one might do the trick: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-grinder-funnel-60mm-1.html


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## Buster (Nov 28, 2019)

Has anyone found the lettering da des on the calibration markings - 'fine-10-espresso-20'etc? My Niche delivered about 19th Dec and had very light domestic use has a couple of letters on the word 'coarse' Fading. Not sure why as they just sit under the lid when it's closed, and don't get rubbed by anything. Doesn't impact on performance and maybe the Niche printing method was quite light. Just wondered if anyone else had similar experience?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Buster said:


> Has anyone found the lettering da des on the calibration markings - 'fine-10-espresso-20'etc? My Niche delivered about 19th Dec and had very light domestic use has a couple of letters on the word 'coarse' Fading. Not sure why as they just sit under the lid when it's closed, and don't get rubbed by anything. Doesn't impact on performance and maybe the Niche printing method was quite light. Just wondered if anyone else had similar experience?












Mine is good as new, from the first batch a couple of years ago now.

Apart from using a pastry brush to remove stray grinds, and a Hoover, I don't use water or rub on anything.

Edit: the yellow microfibre cloth is there so you won't see the reflection of me, on my pijamas!


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## Buster (Nov 28, 2019)

Haha. Mine is white and just over 6m old although not used during lockdown. Slight fading on a couple of letters of 'coarse' - no big deal but did read somewhere that others had similar experience. Just wondered if anyone knew what caused it?


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## Buster (Nov 28, 2019)

PS. Maybe the black print on white Niche is less robust than the white on a black Niche


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Buster said:


> Haha. Mine is white and just over 6m old although not used during lockdown. Slight fading on a couple of letters of 'coarse' - no big deal but did read somewhere that others had similar experience. Just wondered if anyone knew what caused it?
> 
> View attachment 42352


 Maybe during grind adjustment its where your finger touches


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Contact Niche, I think on a few there was a problem with the lettering. Sure they will probably sort you out.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Wasn't planning to post anything about it, but as it happens I messaged a friend before I started deep cleaning the Niche and again after cleaning it. So, I know how long it took...

For any new or would-be owners, wondering how long it takes to:

Remove bolt
Remove NFC disc
Remove upper burr
Remove lower burr
Remove sweep arms
Brush grounds from grind chamber
Brush grounds from burrs
Wipe away oily deposits in grind chamber, etc.
Clean grinds chute
Reassemble
Check calibration (I always double check it returns to previous calibration mark)

....6 minutes.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

catpuccino said:


> ....6 minutes.


 Are you related to this guy by any chance?


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Are you related to this guy by any chance?


 What kind of dog is that?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

catpuccino said:


> What kind of dog is that?


 A slow old Cocky Spaniel....


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Trying this out for a bit. I use the Niche 50/50 for espresso and filter, so if I can fix it so I can place the grind cup onto the portafilter holder that'll be noice. I like the cup workflow, just fancied a trial of this.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

catpuccino said:


> Trying this out for a bit. I use the Niche 50/50 for espresso and filter, so if I can fix it so I can place the grind cup onto the portafilter holder that'll be noice. I like the cup workflow, just fancied a trial of this.
> 
> View attachment 42902


 Let me know how that works. I've been debating similar.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Ive been doing this for a while. As long as the height of the funnel is above 3cm, there's no mess at all. In fact, I'd say I get a better even pour compared to when using the cup.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Ive been doing this for a while. As long as the height of the funnel is above 3cm, there's no mess at all. In fact, I'd say I get a better even pour compared to when using the cup.





jaffro said:


> Let me know how that works. I've been debating similar.


 Yep I should make it clear I've trialled this by holding in place for quite a while now. It works no issues, and as @MediumRoastSteam says there are certainly differences in the result. Just not sure I want something fixed in place given I switch between espresso and filter so often.


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

Hi all. New niche owner here. What single measure containers do you guys use for storing ~18gm doses in. I got some test tubes from amazon but a little too small for 18gm dose. Any suggestions thanks.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I don't bother I still use a airscape, but loads around on amazon.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Badgerman said:


> Hi all. New niche owner here. What single measure containers do you guys use for storing ~18gm doses in. I got some test tubes from amazon but a little too small for 18gm dose. Any suggestions thanks.


 50ml centrifugal test tubes on Amazon, very cheap, fits around 20g depending on the bean


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I use Little tiny Tightvacs, but no idea where you can buy them.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/10/27/tightvac-coffee-storage/

The actual one you want (is called a Vitavac) and that I have is: https://tightvac.com/catalog/product/view/id/1171/s/tv1-vitavac-color/category/211/

Looking at the price I'm so pleased I bagged 7 freebie ones at Host from a pretty girl who was giving them away , she said would you like one, I said yes, I'd like 7 actually 

The price is astounding but I know when bought in large quantities they can be very reasonable, so surprised no retailers have started to stock them...I stand corrected

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tightvac-Vitavac-Pocketvac-Container-Garden-Maintenance/dp/B00IYO3X8K

P.S. Mine are 1 shocking pink and 6 vivid lime green...but they were free. My personal choice would have been Black Pearl

P.P.S. This thread has actually given me an idea for the tight vacs, if I can find my little magnets. I bought a pack of tiny neyodymiums from ebay, stuck em somewhere and have forgotten where


----------



## Forcoffee? (Apr 16, 2020)

Niche are now open again for UK orders. October delivery.

Tidy.


----------



## Aamz23 (Aug 20, 2018)

Forcoffee? said:


> Niche are now open again for UK orders. October delivery.
> 
> Tidy.


 Mine should be coming tomorrow, the 2 and half months have gone quick


----------



## Forcoffee? (Apr 16, 2020)

Nice. October for me. Be interested to hear how you get on with it.


----------



## Aamz23 (Aug 20, 2018)

Its here but decorations at home mean ill have to wait a few days before trying it. Hard times!


----------



## jjstorgaard (Jan 19, 2019)

@Aamz23 You ordered yours for July delivery and only just got it now? I'm expecting mine in August and was sort of assuming/desperately hoping that they delivered at the start of the month.

JJ


----------



## Aamz23 (Aug 20, 2018)

jjstorgaard said:


> @Aamz23 You ordered yours for July delivery and only just got it now? I'm expecting mine in August and was sort of assuming/desperately hoping that they delivered at the start of the month.
> 
> JJ


 No i ordered mine in may sometime it said August for delivery but came today


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## jjstorgaard (Jan 19, 2019)

Oh that's way better, wish they would do the same with mine.

JJ


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

If I put a small mark here, then I can always find my calibration setting.

Sometimes after a period of use between cleaning, i can't always turn the setting back to the calibration point immediately. Particularly if i just did something very coarse for some reason. To avoid any doubt that I moved the dial I figured I'd record it after a thorough cleaning.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Squidgyblack (Nov 18, 2019)

Looks like my Black UK has shipped earlier than expected (was expecting mid month) but saying it'll be delivered on Thursday.

Excited is an understatement!


----------



## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Hi,

I've just cleaned my Niche, reassembled and calibrated it and it turns out that the new settings for my beans are 6 (decaf, medium) and 9 (Nicaragua, medium).

While I'm well aware that the numbers are just a reference point, I like to operate around the grind setting 20 - the area that's right ahead of me and thus easier to see and to change the settings.

So my question is, having calibrated my grinder, is it okay to rotate just the black ring with the dot to "transfer" the current dial-in point from 6 and 9 to something like 16 and 19? Or would you rather advise against it?


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I've never been past 15 ever for espresso. 9 seems OK for decaf I could be wrong try it and find out.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PD2020 said:


> So my question is, having calibrated my grinder, is it okay to rotate just the black ring with the dot to "transfer" the current dial-in point from 6 and 9 to something like 16 and 19? Or would you rather advise against it?


 By doing this you risk upsetting the balance of the universe.....










Put trust in your feelings......


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@PD2020 - I wouldn't, as you may forget and mash the burrs together if you forget you have moved the dot so far out...

Also agree with Jony, that seems super low in terms of the numbers. Maybe take it apart clean and try again? Mine has always been about 13+


----------



## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @PD2020 - I wouldn't, as you may forget and mash the burrs together if you forget you have moved the dot so far out...
> 
> Also agree with Jony, that seems super low in terms of the numbers. Maybe take it apart clean and try again? Mine has always been about 13+


 I cleaned it yesterday and got the low numbers. Today I repeated the clean and ended up at 6 and 9 again.

Edit: fair point about potentially forgetting where I really am


----------



## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I'm normally between 8 and and 11 (with NFC disk) for espresso, that's with 15s pre-infusions and 18g VST.


----------



## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

You know that bit in DaveC's video "Niche Zero - Watch this before unpacking or soon after" 



 , where he says to twist the top funnel anti-clockwise until your fingers slip.

I did this part very gently to avoid any unnecessary force and the black dot ended up a couple of millimetres before the calibration point (so not 100% aligned, but very close). If I had tried to twist the top a tiny bit further (which probably would have worked), would that have changed my dialled-in settings from 6 and 9 to higher or even lower numbers?


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

PD2020 said:


> You know that bit in DaveC's video "Niche Zero - Watch this before unpacking or soon after"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 What difference does it make? If it was out by 1 number then if you had tightened it obviously your grind setting will be one number finer or coarser depending on which direction the notch was out. But it makes absolutely no difference to the distance between the burrs it's just a reference point.


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> What difference does it make? If it was out by 1 number then if you had tightened it obviously your grind setting will be one number finer or coarser depending on which direction the notch was out. But it makes absolutely no difference to the distance between the burrs it's just a reference point.


 Thanks for confirming that, Rob1.

So it sounds like how far I twist the top funnel until my fingers slip won't have a significant impact (e.g. more than 2 notches) on the grind settings. I'm not willing to try force twisting it anyway.


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I am mostly between 8-12. 8 for decaf and 10-12 medium to dark roasts with NFC disk


----------



## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Using NFC disc I'm down as low as 4 or 5 on some beans and 8 for others, mostly light medium or medium roast. Tried cleaning and re-calibrating but if I set it around 15 it pulls the shot 1st around 10s.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TonyJoe said:


> Using NFC disc I'm down as low as 4 or 5 on some beans and 8 for others, mostly light medium or medium roast. Tried cleaning and re-calibrating but if I set it around 15 it pulls the shot 1st around 10s.


 Hey, this doesn't sound right.

which beans? Are you using freshly roasted? Which machine? Which coffee basket? How's your prep? How much are you dosing?


----------



## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

I'm always between 15-22, no disk on mine, need to get one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

Do all the new ones come with the disc?


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## mcwill (Aug 9, 2020)

Jason11 said:


> Do all the new ones come with the disc?


 Yes, has been pre-fitted for the last 6 months or so.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

TonyJoe said:


> Using NFC disc I'm down as low as 4 or 5 on some beans and 8 for others, mostly light medium or medium roast. Tried cleaning and re-calibrating but if I set it around 15 it pulls the shot 1st around 10s.


 I generally have mine set to around 10. I have been down to 5/6 with Pacamara. Are you having problems with your results?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not get this fixation with numbers! The Niche is stepless....if it needs tightened, tighten it and vice versa. Your movements will be small unless possibly a change in brew method or bean type


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hey, this doesn't sound right.
> 
> which beans? Are you using freshly roasted? Which machine? Which coffee basket? How's your prep? How much are you dosing?


 This morning's beans were roasted end July, opened about a week ago and kept in a small Airscape container. Grind is set at 5.
Machine is an ECM Mechanika Slim V, a VST 15g basket (15g dose) and an IMS shower screen.
I use homemade WDT to ensure no clumps, tap level and tamp. From pulling lever to 1st drops is about 12s and shows about 9.5 bar pressure. From 1st drop to 30g weight of shot takes about 20s.


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> I generally have mine set to around 10. I have been down to 5/6 with Pacamara. Are you having problems with your results?


 No shots taste fine, usually. I just seem to be on lower numbers than most. Slight discrepancy of burrs maybe?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

TonyJoe said:


> No shots taste fine, usually. I just seem to be on lower numbers than most. Slight discrepancy of burrs maybe?


 Not at all......ignore the numbers, they are a point of reference that's all


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

What @dfk41 say's


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TonyJoe said:


> No shots taste fine, usually. I just seem to be on lower numbers than most. Slight discrepancy of burrs maybe?


 If shots taste fine, then all good. Like @dfk41 - it's stepless, and the numbers are irrelevant. But it's nice to compare if they all calibrated in the same way.

for reference, I'm using some Costa Rican beans from BlackCat. VST 18g, Lelit Elizabeth, no per infusion, it's at setting 10, coffee comes out in 45 seconds! With pre-infusion, comes out in 34s. Other Costa Rican beans from BB require an increase of 4 steps.

Doesn't affect taste, but in the interest of experiments, I like numbers. 😉


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Yes, because numbers are there it's obvious to compare with other grinders of the same. Unlike my old Iberital MC2 that had no numbers so nothing to compare against other users.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TonyJoe said:


> Yes, because numbers are there it's obvious to compare with other grinders of the same. Unlike my old Iberital MC2 that had no numbers so nothing to compare against other users.


 Some coffees require a finer grind than others....I did a YouTube "morning coffee" video on it.


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Thank you all for your comments. As pointed out, the numbers are just a reference point 

I realised today during my morning coffee making that my yesterday's post was wrong and my setting for both decaf (Rave Swiss Water decaf) and Nicaraguan medium-roast (San Jose from Origin - so yum!) are both at 6 after cleaning. Sorry, my notes were a bit messy.

So before cleaning I was on 11-12 for Nicaraguan medium-roast and 10-12 for Decaf.

After cleaning both are at 6.

The taste is the same, so I assume before and after numbers result in the same grind - it's just the reference point has moved. That's cool.

In my kitchen that means I have to stick my head under the cupboard from the left hand side where other appliances stand. A little inconvenient. I was wondering, if the numbers are just a reference point, could the setting be transferred from 6 to 16 so that it's easier to see what number I'm on. Or alternatively I made a mistake during cleaning which caused the reference point to slip 5 notches down. As a newbie I make mistakes all the time... 

Anyway, it would be nice to control the reference point position. Not sure how to do it with Niche. But it would be nice if I could, let's say, stick a stiffer spring set in resulting at new dialled-in settings around 15-20. Probably a bad example - no idea if the springs affect that. Just saying that if the numbers are just a reference point, it would be nice to have your dialled-in settings in the most convenient area for your kitchen


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Some coffees require a finer grind than others....I did a YouTube "morning coffee" video on it.


 I'll go have a peek. Cheers


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

So September UK stock Starting to ship 🤞👏🤞


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## phario (May 7, 2017)

Border_all said:


> So September UK stock Starting to ship 🤞👏🤞


 Indeed. Got a notification that shipment is arriving tomorrow.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

phario said:


> Indeed. Got a notification that shipment is arriving tomorrow.


 Just got my notification as well


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

Border_all said:


> Just got my notification as well


 this gives me hope my october delivery makes it by late september... fingers crossed


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## mbenney (Apr 18, 2020)

Are people seasoning the burrs with the Niche?

Should I be on the lookout for cheap / stale beans ready for my October delivery?

If so, how much weight?

Cheers


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## Adam.f (Apr 9, 2020)

mbenney said:


> Are people seasoning the burrs with the Niche?
> 
> Should I be on the lookout for cheap / stale beans ready for my October delivery?
> 
> ...


 in the Niche manual it says 10kg of beans season the burrs, email some of the coffee bean roasters and ask if the have some old beans that you can use for this reason, I managed to get 5kg and they charged me a few quid.

I ran the 5kg over a few nights of receiving them so I am well on my way to the burrs being seasoned.


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Adam.f said:


> I ran the 5kg over a few nights of receiving them so I am well on my way to the burrs being seasoned.


 You haven't experienced the smugness, that over the first few months you slowly feel you are making better and better coffee.

Or the disappointment, several months later when find out you've probably passed 5kg, and those earlier improvements are only due to your bean spoon cup technique. 😹


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

yeah, i am planning to just let it happen naturally. over 5 years.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

I put through 2.25kg today got another 2.25 tomorrow will have to wait for the 10kg part though lol


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I never bothered....


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

So JH has just released a video on Niche/Wilfra. Tbh, was expecting Niche to just win in both filter/espresso departments. Understandably it's not a proper comparison and quite subjective, but still.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

> 4 minutes ago, Zeak said:
> 
> So JH has just released a video on Niche/Wilfra. Tbh, was expecting Niche to just win in both filter/espresso departments. Understandably it's not a proper comparison and quite subjective, but still.


 Just watched this too. It's a nice casual update video, more train of thought than anything. Good to see he's still using the Uniform at home, seems to be a very well regarded grinder amoungst those who have one (not many here).

I'm not sure what 'win' means in this context though, apart from their dimensions these two grinders don't really share a market in any way.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

> 15 hours ago, Zeak said:
> 
> So JH has just released a video on Niche/Wilfra. Tbh, was expecting Niche to just win in both filter/espresso departments. Understandably it's not a proper comparison and quite subjective, but still.


 Interesting viewing. Beat the Niche on V60, and ran it a very close second on espresso. Hoffman's personal view of course but that's still impressive.


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## cozzie21 (Mar 28, 2016)

Early thoughts...

Having just received my eagerly awaited Niche I've notice a few things that I'm not really happy with and wanted to share if anyone else feels the same.

1 - The grind mess. It just doesn't seem to cleanly grind, there is grind everywhere and the static can often hold it in the dosing cup. 
2 - Zero retention? Don't think so, once the grinding is done, remove the cup and tap the machine, some more comes out, tap it harder, some more comes out. I hadn't tapped it for a few days, making 2-3 doubles each day.... Tapped it and a big clump fell out. It equated to 1.8g. My previous Sage was quite bad but never had that amount retained.

It's brand new and grinding at 20, so not even super fine!

Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

cozzie21 said:


> 2 - Zero retention? Don't think so, once the grinding is done, remove the cup and tap the machine, some more comes out, tap it harder, some more comes out. I hadn't tapped it for a few days, making 2-3 doubles each day.... Tapped it and a big clump fell out. It equated to 1.8g. My previous Sage was quite bad but never had that amount retained.


 You've misunderstood what a zero retention grinder does. Don't tap it. See @DavecUK's section on this under "Retention" (p.5).

https://www.nichecoffee.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Niche-zero-review.pdf



cozzie21 said:


> The grind mess. It just doesn't seem to cleanly grind, there is grind everywhere and the static can often hold it in the dosing cup.


 Everywhere? Got a photo? Over time a little chaff will build up around the chute as the grinds exit, but not much. New burrs often exhibit more static than those which have had a few kilograms run though.

A little tap of the cup will sort out any clinging to the sides.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

cozzie21 said:


> Early thoughts...
> 
> Having just received my eagerly awaited Niche I've notice a few things that I'm not really happy with and wanted to share if anyone else feels the same.
> 
> ...


I get a little retention, but I never tap into my current shot. Instead I tap out any retained grinds before starting a new shot and simply discard it. My understanding is that Niche's level of retention ( normally less tha half a teaspoon) is way lower and more manageable than anything else on the market.

I've never had any problems with mess, much tidier than the Eureka Mignon it replaced.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

cozzie21 said:


> Early thoughts...
> 
> Having just received my eagerly awaited Niche I've notice a few things that I'm not really happy with and wanted to share if anyone else feels the same.
> 
> ...


 1.8g is a lot for the Niche. 0.2-0.4g is normal. My Pharos holds onto about 0.2g

Very dark roasts or dry beans will be more static prone and you might get more retention. Don't tap the grinder.

The most I've got out of my Niche in terms of retained grinds is about 2g after removing the burrs and sweeping everything out and dusting everything off the burrs into a container, most of this came from coffee trapped under the burrs that wouldn't ordinarily move.


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

With Niche Zero how many seconds do you gain/lose if increasing/decreasing the grinder setting by 1 step (e.g. from 12 to 13)?

I have found that with some beans it was around 3 seconds per 1 step. In some other cases, especially when grinding finer, it feels much more sensitive - 1 step equals around 9 seconds, which makes it harder for me to get to the shot time I want.

Is it just my technique? Or does this change actually depend on the beans?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

3 or 4 seconds...however some beans depending on varietal and roast profile could be more sensitive...9 seconds seems a lot for 1 division though perhaps 5s, even 6 at a stretch (although I've never found 1 division makes 6 seconds on the pour?

If it's 9 seconds something else is going on with the prep, or perhaps the puck is fracturing on the previous shot and you're moving to choking by tightening up?


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## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Hi Dave, thanks for the reply.

9s is what I'm getting right now for these decaf beans here: https://www.origincoffee.co.uk/products/santa-maria-decaf?variant=31673712050249.

Glad to know that this is not typical to have 9s differences. I'll need to rethink my prepup.

One idea I had (going to try it now) was that I'm overdosing my 18g VST basket. I mean I'm grinding 18g so probably 17.9g comes out, but in terms of volume it feels slightly too much for this basket. When tamping it looks ok, though. The rim of the basket is nicely aligned with the top of the tamper base.

Could overdosing cause puck fracturing?

Edit: I should have added that I didn't see any obvious fracturing on the puck when knocking it out of the portafilter (I'll take a closer look in my next try).


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

PD2020 said:


> Hi Dave, thanks for the reply.
> 
> 9s is what I'm getting right now for these decaf beans here: https://www.origincoffee.co.uk/products/santa-maria-decaf?variant=31673712050249.
> 
> ...


 There can be lots of reasons for lack of linear consistency in changing pour time when adjusting grind levels (not just puck fracturing). overfilling a basket can be one but there are others. Coffee has different densities and occupies different volumes when ground and tamped for weight, so the term 18g basket can be quite misleading. I have 18g baskets that are not full enough with 18g of one coffee and can only take 17 or 16g of another. It's one of those hangovers from the past....really we should be talking about basket volumes and fill levels, because as soon as we talk about a basket holding 18g or 14g...we're in trouble.


----------



## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

17g dose on my VST 18g was easier to work with (stirring, tamping), but hasn't changed how much shot times change when adjusting grind settings:

- 17g in, 34 out, in 18s, at Niche mark 6 1/3 (six and one third)

- 17g in, 34 out, in 26s, at Niche mark 5 1/2 (five and a half)

No visible signs of fracturing. I pressed the wet puck with my fingers and noticed that the centre is dense while around the periphery feels quite soft. Not sure if that's normal as I never do puckology. Maybe it's about how I stir with LDT in the portafilter, but then it worked so well for the HasBean cherry decaf which has had crystal-clear flavour and silky texture without any harshness (it's unbelievable when you experience that for the first time).

I'm wondering if puck fracturing can happen without any visible signs. I'll go and have a read on the forum. Still got a few doses left.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Could be something else...


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

PD2020 said:


> 17g dose on my VST 18g was easier to work with (stirring, tamping), but hasn't changed how much shot times change when adjusting grind settings:
> 
> - 17g in, 34 out, in 18s, at Niche mark 6 1/3 (six and one third)
> 
> ...


 Very interesting.... And I have to say, you are not alone. I sometimes find the same thing... like, for me, setting 14 gives me a 30s shot, whereas setting 13 gives me a 40s shot. A huge difference. I also dose 18g into a VST 18g.

i don't think there's anything wrong with my prep, my naked PF shots look good, no signs of channeling.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

PD2020 said:


> 17g dose on my VST 18g was easier to work with (stirring, tamping), but hasn't changed how much shot times change when adjusting grind settings:
> 
> - 17g in, 34 out, in 18s, at Niche mark 6 1/3 (six and one third)
> 
> ...


 How does it taste ...

chenneling can happen without visible puck fracturing

lastly puck logs is a dead end to go down tbh


----------



## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I agree that, especially with the NFC disk, the difference between two marks on the dial can be quite significant. @MediumRoastSteam 10s doesn't suprise me all too much. Before the NFC disk, a meaningful adjustment for espresso (for me) was probably 1/2 a mark, now I often make changes of 1/4 or 1/8 (you're just eyeballing it at this point but that's the beauty of stepless...) which make meaningful and repeatable differences to the extraction. I'm typically around the 9 mark, 18 VST with long pre-infusion times (15s+).

My extraction times are remarkably consistent when not changing grind, though. The last 10 or so shots I've done of this bean have all met the target yield at 42s when in reality 2/3s variances is perfectly reasonable.


----------



## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> How does it taste ...
> 
> chenneling can happen without visible puck fracturing
> 
> lastly puck logs is a dead end to go down tbh


 Hi Mrboots2u. Taste wasn't, perhaps because I struggled too much to get to the target time. My guess was that I must be doing something wrong. Dave's explanation (puck fracturing) made lots of sense, but it could be something else in my case.


----------



## PD2020 (May 27, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Very interesting.... And I have to say, you are not alone. I sometimes find the same thing... like, for me, setting 14 gives me a 30s shot, whereas setting 13 gives me a 40s shot. A huge difference. I also dose 18g into a VST 18g.
> 
> i don't think there's anything wrong with my prep, my naked PF shots look good, no signs of channeling.





catpuccino said:


> I agree that, especially with the NFC disk, the difference between two marks on the dial can be quite significant. @MediumRoastSteam 10s doesn't suprise me all too much. Before the NFC disk, a meaningful adjustment for espresso (for me) was probably 1/2 a mark, now I often make changes of 1/4 or 1/8 (you're just eyeballing it at this point but that's the beauty of stepless...) which make meaningful and repeatable differences to the extraction. I'm typically around the 9 mark, 18 VST with long pre-infusion times (15s+).
> 
> My extraction times are remarkably consistent when not changing grind, though. The last 10 or so shots I've done of this bean have all met the target yield at 42s when in reality 2/3s variances is perfectly reasonable.


 Ok, pleased to be in company of 2 experienced forum members then 😉

I'm only starting out in the world of espresso, so treat what I'm going to say with a pinch of salt. Having thought about this I can't recall having such a level of sensitivity of Niche settings before switching to IMS 200 shower screen. From what I've seen MediumRoastSteam you also use it. Not sure about Catpuccino.

On the other hand from what I recall DaveC does not use IMS screens, so maybe that's why he experiences a lower impact of 1 mark (2-5s or so).

I shall do an experiment this week, put the stock screen back and observe the impact of different grinder settings on the shot time. Just waiting for my newly ordered 1kg of decaf to rest enough.

If this theory makes any sense, it would be cool if you could try that too. Otherwise let me know it's total nonsense 😉


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

PD2020 said:


> Ok, pleased to be in company of 2 experienced forum members then 😉
> 
> I'm only starting out in the world of espresso, so treat what I'm going to say with a pinch of salt. Having thought about this I can't recall having such a level of sensitivity of Niche settings before switching to IMS 200 shower screen. From what I've seen MediumRoastSteam you also use it. Not sure about Catpuccino.
> 
> ...


 Nope. I have not been using the IMS screen on my machine. I save you the hassle of experimenting. 😉


----------



## stockportman (May 15, 2020)

Just come on here to do a little dance
Mine's just arrived today. Oh my - it looks even better in the flesh, and it's sooooo quiet

Looking forward to getting to grips with it..... and having the caffeine shakes for days, no doubt!


----------



## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

Not having a doser may take some getting used to


----------



## Rifik (Jun 26, 2020)

Oh dear the quality of the grind is impressive though..

I'm on November batchn and the wait is killing me! Currently using ascaso i-steel i1, which is very noisy not mentioning the huge retention.


----------



## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

despite not using the cup, i checked, only 0.7g was lost to the counter


----------



## stockportman (May 15, 2020)

Rifik said:


> Oh dear the quality of the grind is impressive though..
> 
> I'm on November batchn and the wait is killing me! Currently using ascaso i-steel i1, which is very noisy
> 
> ...


 I'm only one month ahead of you. I've *just* retired my i3 Mini today as the Niche arrived (Oct batch). The difference is phenomenal already. You'll love it. Just keep polishing the ascaso in the meantime!


----------



## Rifik (Jun 26, 2020)

Stockportman: can't wait! There's hope that november batch will also be dispatched ahead of schedule


----------



## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

espressoSquirrel said:


> Not having a doser may take some getting used to
> 
> View attachment 45233


 This picture made me laugh so hard! I received my Niche in April 2019. In the first week, I did this very same thing... I stood there, dosing cup in hand, admiring my Niche, loving how quiet it was, as the freshly ground coffee piled up below the chute! I cleaned up the mess I had made and vowed to be more careful in the future. Can you believe I actually did it again a week later!


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## mbenney (Apr 18, 2020)

Day 2 of Niche ownership. I will agree the quality of the grind and extraction is a huge leap forward for me. But I am seeing 10-15 second differences in shot time between a single stop right now?

Could this be down to seasoning the burrs? Going to get a load of cheap beans tomorrow.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

mbenney said:


> Day 2 of Niche ownership. I will agree the quality of the grind and extraction is a huge leap forward for me. But I am seeing 10-15 second differences in shot time between a single stop right now?
> 
> Could this be down to seasoning the burrs? Going to get a load of cheap beans tomorrow.


 I concur. Mine is over 2 years old. Around the ballpark area, moving the dial 1 step often means a difference of approx 10 seconds.

See post 2830 above.


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

mbenney said:


> Day 2 of Niche ownership. I will agree the quality of the grind and extraction is a huge leap forward for me. But I am seeing 10-15 second differences in shot time between a single stop right now?
> Could this be down to seasoning the burrs? Going to get a load of cheap beans tomorrow.


I was getting around 3-4 seconds between stops last night on the little play I had dialling in.

New beans this morning and had a 41 second shot which was quite over extracted so have adjusted 2 stops for my afternoon cup in a bit so it'll be interesting to see how much faster 2 stops will be with the LSOL beans I'm now using.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

3-4 seconds between stops sounds more like it. However... I've had +/- 3s or more on the same setting because of any of the following reasons:

Transferring grinds into the pf
Humidity (cooking going on)
Last beans of a packet
First beans if not rested
Bad distribution
Channeling (not always visible in the puck)
Lack of general skill
Pixies

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

richwade80 said:


> 3-4 seconds between stops sounds more like it. However... I've had +/- 3s or more on the same setting because of any of the following reasons:
> 
> Transferring grinds into the pf
> Humidity (cooking going on)
> ...


 With the disk in place?


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## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

After having another play this afternoon/evening I'd say it's more like 5-6 seconds per step.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> With the disk in place?


Yep. It was quite rare and mostly down to getting the grinds out of the cup consistently. I noticed that the odd shot could last a lot longer which highlighted I wasn't prepping well enough.

I changed my method and it went away.

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## mbenney (Apr 18, 2020)

Which method did you change to?


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## ZiggyMarley (Jan 9, 2019)

Lilybell2 said:


> In the first week, I did this very same thing


 yep me too 😀


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## Kimmo (Sep 14, 2020)

First impression is that the grind is way more consistent than the Masser mini I have been working with.

Day off tomorrow, more time to play. Need some more beans! 🤣


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## Kimmo (Sep 14, 2020)




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## Kimmo (Sep 14, 2020)




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## Kimmo (Sep 14, 2020)

I changed the approach to visual and touch. Slowly getting there.

Definitely getting better shots with this grinder


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## Kimmo (Sep 14, 2020)




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## ZiggyMarley (Jan 9, 2019)

Anyone know if we can buy an additional Niche dosing cup? Would be handy having two


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ZiggyMarley said:


> Anyone know if we can buy an additional Niche dosing cup? Would be handy having two


 Drop Niche an email and see if they can sell you one. My gut feel is they they don't. But you never know.

i for one, got rid of the cup in my routine: with a 30mm tall funnel, straight walls, I grind straight into the PF. Works wonders.


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

Had Niche for a few days now and can't decide whether to get a levelling tool or not as after transferring from the cup to the basket its never perfect. My previous routine involved grinding into the basket and then doing some WDT hustling. But grinds are so nice and puffy from niche that I'm hesitant to replicate this routine with the new grinder and also omit the dosing cup (I find it extremely convenient to just switch on and do other things whilst it's grinding). Also levelling tools have pretty much no factual useful benefit compared to WDT. What would you suggest? Thanks.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I have one, then tamp


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Zeak said:


> Had Niche for a few days now and can't decide whether to get a levelling tool or not as after transferring from the cup to the basket its never perfect. My previous routine involved grinding into the basket and then doing some WDT hustling. But grinds are so nice and puffy from niche that I'm hesitant to replicate this routine with the new grinder and also omit the dosing cup (I find it extremely convenient to just switch on and do other things whilst it's grinding). Also levelling tools have pretty much no factual useful benefit compared to WDT. What would you suggest? Thanks.


 I like it. I dose directly into the PF using a tall funnel (3cm). WDT, level off with levelling tool and then tamp into a nice flat surface. Consistently nice looking extractions with VST + naked PF.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I like it. I dose directly into the PF using a tall funnel (3cm). WDT, level off with levelling tool and then tamp into a nice flat surface. Consistently nice looking extractions with VST + naked PF.


 This is my routine too, with a caveat as I've posted elsewhere that for more developed roasts I don't think (under my conditions, e.g. typically long and slow shots) the Niche benefits much from WDT.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

catpuccino said:


> This is my routine too, with a caveat as I've posted elsewhere that for more developed roasts I don't think (under my conditions, e.g. typically long and slow shots) the Niche benefits much from WDT.


 Yep, I think I've read it. For me, using light roasts, I find WDT helpful and beneficial.

edit: my fingers don't fit the iPad keyboard!!!


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

I can't get the nut loose with my NFC disk in place. Anyone experienced this and got any tips? I'm wondering if I rub some lubricant (washing up liquid maybe) round it and leave overnight?


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## stockportman (May 15, 2020)

KingoftheHeath said:


> I can't get the nut loose with my NFC disk in place. Anyone experienced this and got any tips? I'm wondering if I rub some lubricant (washing up liquid maybe) round it and leave overnight?


 Have you tried a very quick sharp unscrew? There should be enough resistance in the gearbox and motor to allow the nut to turn. If you do it slowly and carefully, you'll likely just spin the nut and the disk


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

stockportman said:


> Have you tried a very quick sharp unscrew? There should be enough resistance in the gearbox and motor to allow the nut to turn. If you do it slowly and carefully, you'll likely just spin the nut and the disk


Thanks, but just tried and no joy. I reckon there's a glue of coffee residue sticking it in place


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KingoftheHeath said:


> stockportman said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried a very quick sharp unscrew? There should be enough resistance in the gearbox and motor to allow the nut to turn. If you do it slowly and carefully, you'll likely just spin the nut and the disk
> ...


 Two methods:

lock the burrs up all the way: I.e: go way past you zero, so the top burr locks against the lower burr, which will give you counter torque and leverage when you undo the nut.

Or

with a chopstick against the burr movement, through the disk hole, keep it in place to keep the burr still whilst you unscrew.

and...

next time, don't screw it too tight (not saying you did that in the first place), just finger tight with a quick sudden abrupt nip up in the end to make sure it stays in place.


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Interestingly this



MediumRoastSteam said:


> a chopstick against the burr movement, through the disk hole, keep it in place to keep the burr still whilst you unscrew.


 .. was how i *tightened* the nut sufficiently to stop it coming undone when grinding some tough and large Pacamara peaberries. The disk would then spin freely with a loosened nut, and beans fed even slower. 😸


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## eduk (Jul 3, 2020)

Just me?


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

Nope, not just you. Been there, done that... twice. 😉


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

And me


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Ive done that a few times at the beginning. Not a problem. I put everything back in the basket and made a coffee. Can't just waste good coffee beans!


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## TonyJoe (Jul 23, 2019)

Bean there. Amazing how much coffee can be retrieved when in a panic😁


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TonyJoe said:


> Bean there. Amazing how much coffee can be retrieved when in a panic😁


 The other use for the paintbrush on the coffee counter. 🙄


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I've done this once or twice... Thank goodness for the paintbrush!


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## theCoffeeDeveloper (Sep 30, 2020)

Ok my experience. Ordering 10th sept a white eu model. Received 15th October (should have been November so happy me).

Currently used a eureka manuale with my lelit Bianca. Huge time issues with sour espressos. Not getting any been properly until the niche arrived. Second espresso was golden. Then switched Beans. A pretty light roast. 3 tries. Amazing fruit, floral notes. Just crazy

Happy man!

Just wondering how it can be such a day and night difference. I mean I know the niche is good but such a difference.

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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

theCoffeeDeveloper said:


> Huge time issues with sour espressos


 What do you mean by huge time issues? They the timer was not dispensing the same dose consistently? Did youngsters the hopper full or at least half full? Were your "sour" shots based on timed dose or weight in/out?


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## theCoffeeDeveloper (Sep 30, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What do you mean by huge time issues? They the timer was not dispensing the same dose consistently? Did youngsters the hopper full or at least half full? Were your "sour" shots based on timed dose or weight in/out?


Sorry I just mean I had a lot of issues with really sour shots continuously. Tried with Max half full hopper. Beans age between 1-3 weeks after roast with at least 7-10 days rest after roast date.

Beans for max 24 /32 hrs in the hopper.

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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

theCoffeeDeveloper said:


> Sorry I just mean I had a lot of issues with really sour shots continuously. Tried with Max half full hopper. Beans age between 1-3 weeks after roast with at least 7-10 days rest after roast date.
> 
> Beans for max 24 /32 hrs in the hopper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 No worries. I also realise I need to double check what I write, because I use the forum on a mobile device.... and the spell checker kicks in often.... "youngsters" where did that come from??? 😂😂😂

After all, this thread is about the Niche. I just found interesting that you seem to be having a stark difference between the Mignon and the Niche. That baffles me, because the little Mignon is a very good grinder, and, used correctly, should not give you sour shots. Anyway, glad the Niche fixed that variable problem for you. 👍


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

cozzie21 said:


> Early thoughts...
> 
> Having just received my eagerly awaited Niche I've notice a few things that I'm not really happy with and wanted to share if anyone else feels the same.
> 
> ...


 Hello! New poster, normally lurking.

I've had my Niche for a week or so now and I'd echo the comments above.

The static is annoying but I can live with that. The supposed 'zero' retention is more surprising. If I simply let go of the hopper lid from vertical so it effectively closes itself, more coffee grounds get knocked out. If I gently rock the Niche I can get anywhere between 0.3g and 1g coming out. Is this normal?

My only other reference is the grinder on my Sage Barista Express, which doesn't have such a discrepancy between coffee beans in and grounds out. I guess the coffee retention inside the Express could be much worse so I'm getting more stale grounds, but hard to know for sure.

Anyway, I gotta say I'm a bit underwhelmed so far in general - feels like I've made a bit of a sideways move in terms of quality. I can't say I've noticed an instantaneous improvement in espresso taste, although I've been using the Express for >5 years and the Niche for >1 week. The grind step control is definitely better and it's nice to have the ability to do filter as well. Just hoping I can establish some really noticeable change in extraction quality soon.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

strebor said:


> Hello! New poster, normally lurking.
> 
> I've had my Niche for a week or so now and I'd echo the comments above.
> 
> ...


 Why not clack the lid a few times at end of grind? Takes a second or so.

"Zero retention" shouldn't be taken too literally, any grinder that has a dose consistency with +/-0.5g could be considered "Zero retention".

You have more control over extraction quality, maybe start a thread in the Sage forum & you'll get some troubleshooting advice. Make sure you are weighing the grinds in the PF before pulling the shot & that you are not relying on any preset 'cup' settings.


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## theCoffeeDeveloper (Sep 30, 2020)

I weigh before and after and never have more than .1g so happy with that. Also I think what matters most is convenience, taste and consistency.

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## Lucian_Blue (Feb 2, 2018)

I'm good too, regarding retention and workflow, but your miles may vary.


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Why not clack the lid a few times at end of grind? Takes a second or so.
> 
> "Zero retention" shouldn't be taken too literally, any grinder that has a dose consistency with +/-0.5g could be considered "Zero retention".
> 
> You have more control over extraction quality, maybe start a thread in the Sage forum & you'll get some troubleshooting advice. Make sure you are weighing the grinds in the PF before pulling the shot & that you are not relying on any preset 'cup' settings.


 Yeah I get that it was never going to be actually zero. I think I was just expecting a significant difference from my Sage, which I think is credit to that machine really.

Clacking the lid is my current method. Just a bit surprised that it's necessary given the small fortune I've just spent on this thing.

I'd shifted to single-dosing with the Sage, aiming generally for 2:1, 18g shots so was getting pretty consistent results. The Niche has undoubtedly better grind control, which gives better consistency. My qualms boils down to: either I'm not pro enough yet to notice the benefits of the actual grinder quality (i.e.: git gud), or the Sage is actually pretty great.

I will delve into the Sage forum.


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## theCoffeeDeveloper (Sep 30, 2020)

Well. Everywhere you read it states that de retention is almost zero. .1 .2 is pretty minimal I think.

All other grinders have retention of full grams
Which is a bigger deal I think.

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

strebor said:


> Yeah I get that it was never going to be actually zero. I think I was just expecting a significant difference from my Sage, which I think is credit to that machine really.
> 
> Clacking the lid is my current method. Just a bit surprised that it's necessary given the small fortune I've just spent on this thing.
> 
> ...


 There is a difference between coffee put in a grinder and what's comes out , ie retention or exchange,

I think the Sage has more exchange of coffee as a grinder, where the niche has less retention .

I used a sage prior to the Niche , my experience is different , but it doesn't mean you are wrong. But I am not sure I would characterise the Sage as pretty great just from my experience. Again its ok to differ.

I find I can push shots finer with longer brew times to generate a difference isn taste .

Perhaps try to dial the coffee in differently rather than assuming the same time and ratio for each grinder is appropriate

What machine is your niche paired with .


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

>> What machine is your niche paired with .

Sage Barista Express


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> There is a difference between coffee put in a grinder and what's comes out , ie retention or exchange,
> 
> I think the Sage has more exchange of coffee as a grinder, where the niche has less retention .
> 
> ...


 Just reread your post. Are you suggesting trying say 1.8:1 or 2.2:1 ratios etc? Rather than just 2:1.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

strebor said:


> Just reread your post. Are you suggesting trying say 1.8:1 or 2.2:1 ratios etc? Rather than just 2:1.


 That, yes. Or a combination thereof, i.e.: try a 2:1 in 40s instead of the usual 30s. taste is subjective. You need to find out what suits your equipment and your palate. As an example, I like the light roasts I have from Foundry with a long pre-infusion (11 seconds at the moment) and a total time of 42 seconds, at a 2:1 ratio. As @Mrboots2u said on another post (do listen to him, he knows a thing or two about coffee!) , after pre-infusion the shot runs faster (presumably because the grinds inside the basket are fully saturated) so the time with or without pre-Infusion is roughly the same.


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

Thanks. I have played around a bit but admittedly 40s is a lot longer than I would normally go for! Normally find coffees too burnt/bitter at that duration. I will give it go though!

I guess another issue I have is switching beans a lot. I really like trying different roasters and varieties.

Guess I should try sticking with one coffee type for a while and really pushing the full range of parameters.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

strebor said:


> Thanks. I have played around a bit but admittedly 40s is a lot longer than I would normally go for! Normally find coffees too burnt/bitter at that duration. I will give it go though!
> 
> I guess another issue I have is switching beans a lot. I really like trying different roasters and varieties.
> 
> Guess I should try sticking with one coffee type for a while and really pushing the full range of parameters.


 Exactly my point. Find out what works for you, don't be afraid of experimenting, this is the whole part of the fun right?

I only gave you an example of a recipe that works for me, for my equipment, and for the coffee I like. It might not work for you, but, Until you try it, you'll never know. 😉👍


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

strebor said:


> Just reread your post. Are you suggesting trying say 1.8:1 or 2.2:1 ratios etc? Rather than just 2:1.


 Ik suggesting changing the ratio , there is experimentation to be had outside the gates of 1:2 , people enjoy shots up to 1:4 and over .


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ik suggesting changing the ratio , there is experimentation to be had outside the ages of 1:2 , people enjoy shots up to 1:4 and over .


I go 1:3 on Coffee Compass' Cherry Cherry and it hits my preferences beautifully. 8 sec pre-infusion, wait, then fairly gradual ramp up to 9 bar. Total time around 45 secs.


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## strebor (Oct 20, 2020)

Awesome. I'll give it a whirl. I've yet to read up about adjusting pre-infusion times mind. Think I'll save that for another day...


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## bolduque (Oct 27, 2020)

I was wondering if anyone here has any idea of when their next batch of EU models will be released, I seem to be just too late..


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## stevespeirs (Oct 25, 2020)

bolduque said:


> I was wondering if anyone here has any idea of when their next batch of EU models will be released, I seem to be just too late..


Not sure. I missed the boat on the latest batch of US models too.

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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

After adding the NFC disk, should I change something with the grinder? I now have to grind a lot finer which I read is normal but other than that?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

mayorcesar said:


> After adding the NFC disk, should I change something with the grinder? I now have to grind a lot finer which I read is normal but other than that?


 Apart from the adjustment, what else is there that can be changed? Confused. 🤷‍♂️


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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Apart from the adjustment, what else is there that can be changed? Confused. 🤷‍♂️


 I remember reading something somewhere about changing the calibration, but not sure. I was more wondering if anything could be changed. I'm now down to 3-4 notches to grind an espresso.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

mayorcesar said:


> I remember reading something somewhere about changing the calibration, but not sure. I was more wondering if anything could be changed. I'm now down to 3-4 notches to grind an espresso.


 Calibration does not change the distance between the burrs: It simply changes the position of a marker dot, which should be placed where the burrs touch, so it's purely for reference purposes only. You can do so by rotating the black ring below the adjustment collar.


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## vessk0 (Mar 21, 2019)

I've received my new Niche grinder a few days ago and found that the burr has some damage to it. Is it normal or should I change it? The grinder produce perfect grind but it triggers my OCD. 

Check the starting cutters:









*High resolution image*


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It's in the breaker zone, won't have any impact at all on grind quality....the important area looks fine.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Finally got round to putting the NFC disc on yesterday, was initially surprised to how much finer I needed to go. Clearly it stops popcorning however 6 drinks in and I'm not convinced it's as good in the cup as without. Havent searched the threads to see if anyone else has had a similar experience but I find the taste flatter than without the disc.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

KTD said:


> Finally got round to putting the NFC disc on yesterday, was initially surprised to how much finer I needed to go. Clearly it stops popcorning however 6 drinks in and I'm not convinced it's as good in the cup as without. Havent searched the threads to see if anyone else has had a similar experience but I find the taste flatter than without the disc.


 I think it's just a matter of normalising your grind size, rather than any deficiency in distribution.

I fitted mine recently and there's no way I'm taking it off because the grinder is so much less messy with it on.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

KTD said:


> Finally got round to putting the NFC disc on yesterday, was initially surprised to how much finer I needed to go. Clearly it stops popcorning however 6 drinks in and I'm not convinced it's as good in the cup as without. Havent searched the threads to see if anyone else has had a similar experience but I find the taste flatter than without the disc.


 Have you altered your ratio or recipe as a result of needing to grind finer ?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

No, would you suggest that may help? 
dialled back in to 14.5g-32g in 33 seconds which I was using before for this particular coffee. Lever pressure felt the same. Citrus notes that were pronounced before are somewhat flatter.

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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Right I've had a few days of usage and testing and I can say with some certainty the taste is flatter with the disc on. Blends seem to lose their identity by muting the coffees that make them different, I've done side by side tasting across 2 single origins(Cuba and Kenyan) and 3 blends. If anyone gets five minutes and gets a chance to try it without the disc let me know how you get on.

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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KTD said:


> Right I've had a few days of usage and testing and I can say with some certainty the taste is flatter with the disc on. Blends seem to lose their identity by muting the coffees that make them different, I've done side by side tasting across 2 single origins(Cuba and Kenyan) and 3 blends. If anyone gets five minutes and gets a chance to try it without the disc let me know how you get on.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Interesting... did you do a blind taste? - to remove any bias?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

I got my wife to mix the cups up lol it certainly wasn't scientific. I expected it to taste the same from outset, after seeing how smooth it made the grind process I was initially very pleased however for me it's not a small difference in taste.

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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KTD said:


> I got my wife to mix the cups up lol it certainly wasn't scientific. I expected it to taste the same from outset, after seeing how smooth it made the grind process I was initially very pleased however for me it's not a small difference in taste.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 My taste buds aren't great, I have to say. @Jason11 - maybe you can try how the Niche without the disk compare to your other grinder? I'll give this a go at this tomorrow. 👍


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

KTD said:


> I got my wife to mix the cups up lol it certainly wasn't scientific. I expected it to taste the same from outset, after seeing how smooth it made the grind process I was initially very pleased however for me it's not a small difference in taste.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 What is your grind setting with the disk & what is the setting without?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

MWJB said:


> What is your grind setting with the disk & what is the setting without?


Roughly 20 without 17 with

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

KTD said:


> Roughly 20 without 17 with
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Have you tried going finer with?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Tried a limited change, I'm fairly limited on dose size and tamp lightly as it is

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

KTD said:


> Tried a limited change, I'm fairly limited on dose size and tamp lightly as it is
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It's not clear what is limiting your change. I haven't noticed dull shots with the disk, but to appraise the difference will take way more than 5 minutes to dial in both with & without to best possible taste, then compare. Otherwise we can only be sure that one condition is dialled in.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

MWJB said:


> It's not clear what is limiting your change. I haven't noticed dull shots with the disk, but to appraise the difference will take way more than 5 minutes to dial in both with & without to best possible taste, then compare. Otherwise we can only be sure that one condition is dialled in.


Getting 5 minutes didn't mean actually 5 minutes clearly it would take longer, can't believe I had to point that out to be honest! I was posting more to see if anyone else had found there to be a change rather than try and find a fix, it would be easy to receive a niche with a disc on and never know there could be a difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KTD said:


> Getting 5 minutes didn't mean actually 5 minutes clearly it would take longer, can't believe I had to point that out to be honest! I was posting more to see if anyone else had found there to be a change rather than try and find a fix, it would be easy to receive a niche with a disc on and never know there could be a difference.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I took the disk out ready for tomorrow and Friday. Likelihood I'll be able to tell the difference.... small, but one never knows until one tries!

im trying to keep my shots in the same ball park time wise, so I changed the Niche from 8 to 10.5 as a starting point.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

My thoughts are it moves between mouthfeel and clarity, with/without the disk.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> My thoughts are it moves between mouthfeel and clarity, with/without the disk.


In what way?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Less mouthfeel and more clarity with the NFC disk, which was the intended effect, popcoring elimination was a handy side effect.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Less mouthfeel and more clarity with the NFC disk, which was the intended effect, popcoring elimination was a handy side effect.


 Which, given my understanding of what the disk does, makes total sense! 👍


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## CliveM2 (Jan 4, 2019)

I fancy having a go at Turkish...I know the Niche is not optimal for a Turkish grind but I've tested the grind on a few beans and it can go pretty fine. I use 15+ on the Niche for my La Pav, 37 for Moka pots. I'm concerned that by going super-fine for Turkish that I could damage the burrs or overload the gearbox. I tried it on a few beans at zero, it was a little clumpy, at -4 (ie less than zero) it looked good.

Am I taking a risk here with the grinder?

I also have an Orphan Espresso E-T, if this is more suitable feel free to steer me in the right direction 🙂


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KTD said:


> Right I've had a few days of usage and testing and I can say with some certainty the taste is flatter with the disc on. Blends seem to lose their identity by muting the coffees that make them different, I've done side by side tasting across 2 single origins(Cuba and Kenyan) and 3 blends. If anyone gets five minutes and gets a chance to try it without the disc let me know how you get on.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





DavecUK said:


> My thoughts are it moves between mouthfeel and clarity, with/without the disk.


 As far as I can tell - Dave is on the money here. To me, the coffee without the disk feels more velvety, which is the texture expected in a straight espresso. I seldom drink Americano, and I don't think one can tell the difference on a milk-based drink.

I think it's a matter of taste and preferences. I enjoyed the velvety-ness of today's espresso, so will leave the disk in the drawer for the time being.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> so will leave the disk in the drawer for the time being.


 Actually... I lied 🙂 - For the sake of this experiment, I will put the disk back tomorrow to give it a fair comparison and make sure it's not just a placebo effect. I actually just had another espresso, and the mouthfeel is excellent without the disk, however, I do notice that, as Dave points out, the clarity is not present anymore. Being a light roast coffee, I do wonder whether the disk benefits getting the most of that type of coffee.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Actually... I lied 🙂 - For the sake of this experiment, I will put the disk back tomorrow to give it a fair comparison and make sure it's not just a placebo effect. I actually just had another espresso, and the mouthfeel is excellent without the disk, however, I do notice that, as Dave points out, the clarity is not present anymore. Being a light roast coffee, I do wonder whether the disk benefits getting the most of that type of coffee.


 One morning I come to grind coffee, and something looks different. I look again - the disk and screw are missing! What an odd thing! Someone broke in and just took the disk! I look around, no sighs of forced entry. Then what happened??!?

I then remember I vacuum cleaned the grinder yesterday. That must be it. I open the vacuum cleaner, feel the bag, but can't feel anything hard. So I take everything out of the bag, look through with a comb - nothing!

.... eventually I found it stuck in the hose of the vacuum cleaner, of course. Was someone trying to tell me something?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Doram said:


> Was someone trying to tell me something?


 Yes... Make sure screws are tight! 😂


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Actually... I lied 🙂 - For the sake of this experiment, I will put the disk back tomorrow to give it a fair comparison and make sure it's not just a placebo effect. I actually just had another espresso, and the mouthfeel is excellent without the disk, however, I do notice that, as Dave points out, the clarity is not present anymore. Being a light roast coffee, I do wonder whether the disk benefits getting the most of that type of coffee.


 @KTD , verdict from me:

It's definitely not a placebo effect. With the disk I can taste more acidity, more clarity, but the mouthfeel is a bit "thin". Without the disk, I can feel a more texturised shot, better mouthfeel, but definitely less acidity comes through.

Which one do I prefer? Tricky. It's a matter of taste. And it's great to have a choice with such a simple modification. 👍


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Agreed, I think for me the flavours I was missing were mouthfeel related or the lingering of said flavours with the disc. I imagine different coffees will benefit from having the disc off/on

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I personally like the disk on but it was always designed to give the user a choice. This choice depends on personal taste, the coffees and roast levels they prefer. it just adds another dimension to what you can do, with no downside.

It's great to see that the views on its effect from my own testing are echoed by users on here.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It's definitely not a placebo effect. With the disk I can taste more acidity, more clarity, but the mouthfeel is a bit "thin". Without the disk, I can feel a more texturised shot, better mouthfeel, but definitely less acidity comes through.


 Very interesting. Can anyone explain why poprorning vs. disk would have this effect?


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Let's see 🙂

Was a good excuse to clean the burrs as well haha


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Doram said:


> Very interesting. Can anyone explain why poprorning vs. disk would have this effect?


 It's not about popcorning, that's why it's called an NFC disk, it controls the flow of beans (slows it down), so they don't pack in the burrs. This affects grind and fines.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> It's not about popcorning, that's why it's called an NFC disk, it controls the flow of beans (slows it down, so they don't pack in the burrs. This affects grind and fines.


 Thanks. So how would disk/no disk affect the grind and fines, and how/why would that translated to the mouthfeel/acidity/clarity in the cup? (I am trying to understand what is going on when you use or not use the disk).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Doram said:


> Thanks. So how would disk/no disk affect the grind and fines, and how/why would that translated to the mouthfeel/acidity/clarity in the cup? (I am trying to understand what is going on when you use or not use the disk).


 When you feed beans in slower, the grind is coarser than if they are allowed to pack the burrs where the coffee rubs against itself and creates as smaller gap...like 1000 people trying to leave a burning cinema, if they all rush for the exits less get out than if there is an orderly flow. This is due to "packing".

By slowing the flow, you have to tighten the grind (closing the gap between the burrs), because of this you get a smaller range of fines.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Doram said:


> Very interesting. Can anyone explain why poprorning vs. disk would have this effect?


 I never said popcorning! opcorn:


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Without disk I found the taste is a bit harsh with gaslight blend from BB. With disk, more acidity shines through and a smoother espresso.

I haven't tried with different beans, I kept the disk on 😁


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @KTD , verdict from me:
> 
> It's definitely not a placebo effect. With the disk I can taste more acidity, more clarity, but the mouthfeel is a bit "thin". Without the disk, I can feel a more texturised shot, better mouthfeel, but definitely less acidity comes through.





KTD said:


> Agreed, I think for me the flavours I was missing were mouthfeel related or the lingering of said flavours with the disc. I imagine different coffees will benefit from having the disc off/on





DavecUK said:


> It's not about popcorning, that's why it's called an NFC disk, it controls the flow of beans (slows it down), so they don't pack in the burrs. This affects grind and fines.


 Tried it too without the disc. Need to experiment more to see if I can tell the difference. Did you guys really need to go 3 steps coarser on the Niche to get the same flow?

I also watched James Hoffmann's regrinding video again. In his experiment, he said that slowing the feed of the beans to the grinder and grinding finer (so what the disk is doing, but more) makes for a sweeter coffee. If I understood correctly, you felt removing the disk (feeding faster, so the opposite from JH experiment) reduced acidity. My head is spinning. 🙃


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

I think the reducing acidity was partly due to the beans I had ageing, the mouthfeel difference stopped it lingering. Clearly different beans have different effects and as Dave says it's nice to be able to easily switch.


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## moppy (Oct 12, 2020)

Used my new Niche for the first time this morning for an Aeropress. Set it to 35, figured that'd be pretty coarse and was massively surprised at how fine it was! Need to go way coarser.

OTOH massive, massive upgrade from my KG79 grinder, absolutely love it.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

moppy said:


> Used my new Niche for the first time this morning for an Aeropress. Set it to 35, figured that'd be pretty coarse and was massively surprised at how fine it was! Need to go way coarser.
> 
> OTOH massive, massive upgrade from my KG79 grinder, absolutely love it.


I don't get how they arrived at the markings round the side, the 'drip' setting is way too fine for me. Don't be scared to go off the scale, I'm typically between 50 and 55 for V60

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

fluffles said:


> I don't get how they arrived at the markings round the side, the 'drip' setting is way too fine for me. Don't be scared to go off the scale, I'm typically between 50 and 55 for V60
> 
> Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk


 I agree. They would've been better off just using numbers and don't label anything, or even better, provide a shiny surface (whiteboard-like) where one could draw one's own markings for one's own reference. Just causes confusion for the beginners. On the Colombia Monteverde from Rave, I was actually "off the scale" for espresso, at 8!


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Hoping someone can help me with a concern of mine:

I have calibrated it correctly, I did not move the black lower part of the dial. Seasoned it with 2kg of beans now.

I tried with a very dark roast today - 7 days past roast date (kept in a coffee co2 release container straight after opening.

https://www.coffee-direct.co.uk/products/dark-maragogype-coffee?_pos=1&_sid=a0e913010&_ss=r

*I needed to go down to grind size 1 - 1.2 on the niche* to achieve a 25-26 second shot time (from first drip) - 17g in, 34g out. Tasted great, well balanced, but I'm unsure if it is just these beans that require very fine grinding.

I am using WDT, VST 18g, and I believe an adequate even tamping force ( the force tamper should arrive next week).

*Is this normal for darker roasts, or is it quite odd to have to go so fine?* Grind size 12 was much faster and very sour. I appreciate the above posts saying the markings aren't set in stone, but grind size 1 seems extremely low for espresso.

I tried another 7 day old Guatemalan roast which required grind size 6-7. The espresso range of 10-20 is too coarse at the moment.

Ordered x5 different blends from here https://jamesgourmetcoffee.com/#home

Could my niche be faulty? I have 100% calibrated this correctly, I have turned the burrs until they are touching / the dial goes all the way to the right, and then re-calibrated at the calibration point + returned to the espresso range before turning on.

Thanks!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Recalibrate again or the coffee may be stale

draker coffee should be coarser grind , your ball aprk James gourmet was right


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I agree. They would've been better off just using numbers and don't label anything, or even better, provide a shiny surface (whiteboard-like) where one could draw one's own markings for one's own reference. Just causes confusion for the beginners. On the Colombia Monteverde from Rave, I was actually "off the scale" for espresso, at 8!


Where's your typical espresso at? I haven't had to go below 17 yet and that was a pacamara, can't imagine every having to go that low

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

fluffles said:


> Where's your typical espresso at? I haven't had to go below 17 yet and that was a pacamara, can't imagine every having to go that low
> 
> Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk


 It's so bean (and machine) dependant, I find. The one I'm using now, Ethiopian Danisa from Foundry, is on mark 14, using the disk. 11s pre infusion at 2 bar, 36g out, 18g in, using VST 18g, total time 40s.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

fluffles said:


> Where's your typical espresso at? I haven't had to go below 17 yet and that was a pacamara, can't imagine every having to go that low
> 
> Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk


 With low flow I'm at 8 for some and decaf 5


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

kico said:


> *I needed to go down to grind size 1 - 1.2 on the niche* to achieve a 25-26 second shot time (from first drip) - 17g in, 34g out. Tasted great, well balanced, but I'm unsure if it is just these beans that require very fine grinding.


 From first drip? So what was the shot time, 35 seconds, longer, shorter?


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Recalibrate again or the coffee may be stale
> 
> draker coffee should be coarser grind , your ball aprk James gourmet was right


 Thanks, I think it wasn't calibrated properly from factory. I used more force than I did before (not excessive) and now it seems like it is +6 marks on position. The same coffee now requires grind size 5.5 for 28 second shot (from first drip)- 17g in, 34g out



Mrboots2u said:


> With low flow I'm at 8 for some and decaf 5


 Low flow?



Rob1 said:


> From first drip? So what was the shot time, 35 seconds, longer, shorter?


 Not sure what you mean? Recalibrated with more force and now it seems closer to what others are getting. Will try with a medium roast brazilian later, but this dark roast needed 5.5 grind size as above for a balanced shot (took 28 seconds).

I haven't had a play around with ratios yet.

I haven't even added flow control yet, by the time I find the "perfect" shot I believe I will only have 30% of a 900g bag of beans left, but it will again need tweaking when the beans age!! I guess it will become better with practice / time.

Now I'm worried as I only have 700g of coffee beans to last me, until 1.5kg is due on Thursday.

May order a bunch of different beans during any black Friday sales and ziplock then + freeze.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kico said:


> Thanks, I think it wasn't calibrated properly from factory. I used more force than I did before (not excessive) and now it seems like it is +6 marks on position. The same coffee now requires grind size 5.5 for 28 second shot (from first drip)- 17g in, 34g out
> 
> Low flow?
> 
> ...


 Let's be clear you are girding at 1 ? Not 10 ? 
recalibrate again if you are as something isn't right here . Unless your coffee is stale .

take it too bits , recalibrate as per @DavecUK video ans try again


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

kico said:


> Not sure what you mean? Recalibrated with more force and now it seems closer to what others are getting. Will try with a medium roast brazilian later, but this dark roast needed 5.5 grind size as above for a balanced shot (took 28 seconds).


 It doesn't really matter where you are on the scale in comparison to others but it sounds like you've calibrated it at or very close to zero now which I guess it better as it means you're not going to slip off the scale. As MWJB points out above: if you were grinding at 1 before and have further TIGHTENED when calibrating you will now be grinding at a lower mark (off the scale) than before.If you were grinding at 10 and recalibrated and applied more force than previously you'll be 6 marks finer....if you've tried to recalibrate *without cleaning the grinder* then you haven't done it right as you wouldn't be able to get to zero....which would explain how you're grinding at a coarser mark now.

Shot time is from the time you start the pump, not first drips. If you want to time it from first drip that's fine but it's fairly meaningless to share that info as you might have been waiting anywhere between 5-15 seconds for first drip, or possibly even longer.


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Let's be clear you are girding at 1 ? Not 10 ?
> recalibrate again if you are as something isn't right here . Unless your coffee is stale .
> 
> take it too bits , recalibrate as per @DavecUK video ans try again


 Thanks, I am now grinding at 5.5 for these beans as I recalibrated closer to zero - needed to use a tiny bit more force. Calibrated it just like Dave's video and it certainly does feel better.



Rob1 said:


> It doesn't really matter where you are on the scale in comparison to others but it sounds like you've calibrated it at or very close to zero now which I guess it better as it means you're not going to slip off the scale.
> 
> Shot time is from the time you start the pump, not first drips. If you want to time it from first drip that's fine but it's fairly meaningless to share that info as you might have been waiting anywhere between 5-15 seconds for first drip, or possibly even longer.


 Wouldn't first drip be more consistent? I thought pre-infusion varies per machine. With the MaraX it has a slow preinfusion, some machines go straight to 9/10 bar without any preinfusion. I believe the pre-infusion is 10-11 seconds and that this can't be altered.

I've been reading in the Mara X thread that I should look to add 10-11 seconds to the standard 20-30 second shot time to take into account the gradual ramp up.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Your calibrating like this after cleaning


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> It doesn't really matter where you are on the scale in comparison to others but it sounds like you've calibrated it at or very close to zero now which I guess it better as it means you're not going to slip off the scale. As MWJB points out above: if you were grinding at 1 before and have further TIGHTENED when calibrating you will now be grinding at a lower mark (off the scale) than before.If you were grinding at 10 and recalibrated and applied more force than previously you'll be 6 marks finer....


 I understand that, hence why I was grinding at 1 before and now about 5 marks higher.



> if you've tried to recalibrate *without cleaning the grinder* then you haven't done it right as you wouldn't be able to get to zero....which would explain how you're grinding at a coarser mark now.


 I will take it apart and clean it + recalibrate. Thank you!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

kico said:


> Wouldn't first drip be more consistent? I thought pre-infusion varies per machine. With the MaraX it has a slow preinfusion, some machines go straight to 9/10 bar without any preinfusion. I believe the pre-infusion is 10-11 seconds and that this can't be altered.
> 
> I've been reading in the Mara X thread that I should look to add 10-11 seconds to the standard 20-30 second shot time to take into account the gradual ramp up.


 No because it depends on how fine or coarse you're grinding. 10 seconds until first drip (pre-infusion end) is good to aim for and would indicate your grind setting is in the right ballpark. Pre-infusion time is part of shot time. If you get first drips at 10 seconds and it takes a further 25 seconds to hit your target yield you have a 35 second shot time.


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Thanks @Mrboots2uand @Rob1 !!

I took it apart cleaned as per @DavecUK's video and re-calibrated. Now I'm grinding higher (on the dial) at 7-8 grind size (seasoned with 2kg of beans so far). This is 17g in 34g out and a total 35 second shot (inc the mara X preinfusion).

This dark coffee bean sure does seem like an outlier in the typical espresso grind range but I will try it with some other ones later on.

This time last week I thought I won't have more than 4x caffeinated espresso shots in a day. Changing that to 6


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Just saw @CoffeeSensor is now producing tall funnels for different basket sizes so you can use the Niche without the provided cup and grind straight into the portafilter if you so wish.

https://coffee-sensor.com/

they do look good. 👍


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## vessk0 (Mar 21, 2019)

Almost 2 months of use and my experience is that it retains a lot of coffee if it's darker roast.

For example Colombia Swiss Water Decaff medium-dark roast is quite sticky and the grinder retains around 0.3-0.5g of coffee inside it. After a few hard taps and blows I'm able to push around 0.2-0.3g through the chute, but it's still 0.2-0.3g lef inside the chamber.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

vessk0 said:


> Almost 2 months of use and my experience is that it retains a lot of coffee if it's darker roast.
> 
> For example Colombia Swiss Water Decaff medium-dark roast is quite sticky and the grinder retains around 0.3-0.5g of coffee inside it. After a few hard taps and blows I'm able to push around 0.2-0.3g through the chute, but it's still 0.2-0.3g lef inside the chamber.


 Please don't take me the wrong way... But... So, are you saying that 0.3g is A LOT? That's like, two beans, if not one? Have you used other grinders before? Take something that has low exchange retention, like an Eureka Mignon. It will retain at least 2g-3g in the chute. That's 10x the amount of the Niche.

Honestly... Stop tapping the Niche and just use it as intended. No bellows, no tapping. Just grind away, let it run the motor for an extra 10 seconds afterwards and that's it. If you can tell me you can tell the difference between an 18g espresso - even a 7g espresso - made with 0.3g of stale grinds amongst the fresh grinds, I take my hat off to you, as you must have amazing tastebuds.

I really don't understand the point you are trying to make here by saying that 0.3g of exchange retention is a lot.


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## vessk0 (Mar 21, 2019)

I understand your position but this topic is about user experience with the grinder and I'm just sharing mine. I'm not complaining, however with my ex grinder (Baratza Vario) I didn't have such problem. Always 0,0-0,1g retention independent of the coffee (of course with tapping it on top).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

vessk0 said:


> I understand your position but this topic is about user experience with the grinder and I'm just sharing mine. I'm not complaining, however with my ex grinder (Baratza Vario) I didn't have such problem. Always 0,0-0,1g retention independent of the coffee (of course with tapping it on top).


 fair enough. But you are certainly making your experience less enjoyable that way! 🤣👍


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

vessk0 said:


> Always 0,0-0,1g retention independent of the coffee (of course with tapping it on top).


 This isn't happening, you're scales aren't sensitive enough to detect the differences in weight.


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## Riz (Oct 19, 2015)

I've got an issue with my grinder whereby the the lid doesn't fully depress the red button resulting in coffee being ground intermittently at times. Sometimes it requires lifting the lid and closing it more forcibly to ensure the red button is fully depressed or manually pressing down on the hopper to ensure the red button is engaged.

When moving the plastic hopper there seems to be some give on the hinge on the right side, closest to the red button, which I thought is what is causing the issue.

I've reached out to the guys at Niche who were very responsive and they are of the view that the issue is caused by the pcb inside the grinder not being centred properly. They've sent a new part out already and have forwarded instructions on how to replace it.

I've attached a vid of the issue here. Just wondering anybody has encountered this and what they did to resolve it

/monthly_2020_12/HwVideoEditor_2020_12_17_144452.mp4.a88fccf23c173bc566d65e4316f6c5ed.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment HwVideoEditor_2020_12_17_144452.mp4


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I congratulate you on the brevity of the video. Some slack in the hinge is normal, *as long as the allen bolt securing the hinge to the body isn't loose.* Otherwise the circuit board should solve your problem.


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## Riz (Oct 19, 2015)

Thanks @DavecUK. Had to crop it due to file size limits and lack of experience of uploading anything significantly longer on here.

I've checked the screw for the lid and it's tight so will follow the instructions and fit the new part 👍


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I just bung things up to YouTube as unlisted and paste the link on here.

My comment was tongue in cheek, as I suspected a file limit issue.


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## cogent1 (Jul 27, 2015)

I've had my Niche Zero for two years now and it's never given me any problems. I am always amazed at how little is retained in the grinding chamber after many months of use. However, grounds from oily beans do tend to stick in the chute at times. That is inevitable, I think. But anything that is retained can be easily dislodged by gently rocking the grinder (and I mean gently) back and forth a couple of times. I don't find that there is any retention inside the chamber itself as a previous post remarked.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Found this on the FB group, with a link to Home Barista, with a link to the presumed Niche original design:

https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2016042324&tab=DRAWINGS


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## Riz (Oct 19, 2015)

Riz said:


> I've got an issue with my grinder whereby the the lid doesn't fully depress the red button resulting in coffee being ground intermittently at times. Sometimes it requires lifting the lid and closing it more forcibly to ensure the red button is fully depressed or manually pressing down on the hopper to ensure the red button is engaged.
> 
> When moving the plastic hopper there seems to be some give on the hinge on the right side, closest to the red button, which I thought is what is causing the issue.
> 
> ...


 Just feeding back on this issue. Niche sent out a new pcb board the very same day I contacted them about the issue and it arrived the following day together with email instructions and a set of tools required for the job.

The instructions were easy to follow and I managed to switch the new pcb quickly and got to familiarise myself with the innards of the grinder in the process.

Problem solved and the grinder now works as it should with no need for me to manually depress the hopper to ensure the switch is engaged.

Great support and service by Niche.


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## gichka (Dec 23, 2020)

Hey guys,

Not really grinder related as I am still waiting for one in the next batch.
Sorry if it was discussed earlier or this is not the place. Please move post if necessary.

But was just curious - anyone has any info on VAT, imports etc from the UK to EU member states as of 1st Jan '21? Case for Feb '21 orders is rather unusual as payment was done prior Brexit, but shipment will be after it.

I saw back in the thread the 500GBP price includes VAT , but it is not stated in the invoice? So in case I have to pay VAT at destination country and UK VAT is not shown in the invoice, then I would have to pay destination VAT on the whole 500GBP price and not only on the unit price?

What worries me more is that probably I will also be double VAT charged - once at origin and once at destination -in that case *would Niche refund to the customers the VAT paid in the UK?*

Another thing I would like to ask is for new orders - the price still seems to be 500GBP regardless of destination country, shouldn't they remove VAT for new orders?

Just trying to find some answers, don't want to sound like I discredit them or anything.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@gichka You really have to ask Niche.


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

gichka said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Not really grinder related as I am still waiting for one in the next batch.
> Sorry if it was discussed earlier or this is not the place. Please move post if necessary.
> ...


 If you have already ordered, niche have just sent an update out re brexit impact


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Yes just saw this.

Does that mean UK orders being shipped to the UK will be subject to VAT and import duties? I bought and paid in £ through indigogo and it says it is a UK company. Surely that means that the VAT / import duties must have already been included in the advertised price?

Niche must be paying VAT as they have a turnover of nearly £10m...


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## Al Grandé (Nov 26, 2020)

itguy said:


> Yes just saw this.
> 
> I bought and paid in £ through indigogo and it says it is a UK company. Surely that means that the VAT / import duties must have already been included in the advertised price?
> 
> Niche must be paying VAT as they have a turnover of nearly £10m...


 I've bought and paid for one as well, I would have thought so, as we have paid in £'s..


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## islandlad (Feb 8, 2019)

UK orders just confirmed to be unaffected.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Have you heard this from them directly? I asked them the question myself


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## islandlad (Feb 8, 2019)

itguy said:


> Have you heard this from them directly? I asked them the question myself


 Yes, heard from them directly over pm.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Yep - also got a reply "

U.K. orders are unaffected, we ship from the U.K.

"


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

itguy said:


> Have you heard this from them directly? I asked them the question myself


 I think you can deduce from their message about possible VAT and import duties to EU customers that this shouldn't affect UK customers (as Niche is a UK company):


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## gichka (Dec 23, 2020)

I am not UK based 

I am a bit disappointed by that update. It was obvious EU members would pay VAT and imports and that's okay.

But they could have tried to at least send invoices where customs' officers could see UK VAT is paid pre-Brexit and would not charge you VAT a second time.

Price is going up around 100-150Eur for most EU customers, I believe some might cancel and look elsewhere.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Doram said:


> I think you can deduce from their message about possible VAT and import duties to EU customers that this shouldn't affect UK customers (as Niche is a UK company):
> 
> View attachment 50913


 This is a bit lame. Niche should be able to export excluding U.K. VAT, and the end customer should then pay local (EU) VAT and duty on import.

The big couriers handle this sort of calculation, collection and settlement as a matter of routine on international deliveries. Brexit hasn't suddenly invented a problem, it's just removed the convenience of unified VAT on export to continental Europe. (The biggest bugbear for me is the excessive courier administration fee for collecting and settling said Vat & Duty.)

The challenge for Niche, i guess, is accounting properly for goods exported ex Vat to HMRC.


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## Merchant-Seaman (Dec 29, 2020)

Haven't seen anyone else mention it, so just to further fuel the hype for Feb '21 orders, I just got my dispatch email for my one (UK). Arriving tomorrorow.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Yippie!! Got my delivery confirmation for tomorrow - for my Feb 21 order.. Pity my MaraX is at Bella Barista at the moment !! ARRGGHH!!

A few month old Specialita (white) coming up for sale v soon


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

itguy said:


> Yippie!! Got my delivery confirmation for tomorrow - for my Feb 21 order.. Pity my MaraX is at Bella Barista at the moment !! ARRGGHH!!
> 
> A few month old Specialita (white) coming up for sale v soon


 Congrats! Will be interesting to know how you think it compares to the Specialita in terms of workflow and quality in the cup.


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## AJSK66 (Jun 3, 2019)

Been away from the forum for a while but I've had my niche for maybe a year and half now or something around that. Although I fell out with espresso (for now) and stick exclusively to the aeropress or chemex, the grinder is still going strong with no hiccups. Also no numbers missing from the top, for those who remember that debacle from a user here lol.

I do find it a bit trickier choosing the correct grind setting for filter coffee than I did dialing in espresso, but I figure that's more a me problem than the grinder itself.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

I have received my Niche today and whilst I wait for my MaraX to come back (tomorrow), I thought I'd put through about 600g of Lavazza Rosso that is old and I had in the freezer, just to get a feel for it and start to run the burrs in a little.

WOW what a load of static.

I'm not sure if this is because of the dark(ish) roast of the Rosso beans, or if because the burrs are new, or whatever else, but it makes a big mess and the ground coffee in the niche cup is nearly impossible to get fully out of the cup into the PF.

Tried grinding into the PF directly with a couple of different funnels, wow, grinds spraying all over the counter top.

Does this get better with usage, is it me, is it my beans or a combination of it all!?!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I have no static with mine - or let me rephrase this - nothing that is bothersome or annoys me. And believe me, I had other grinders which, if you singled dose, they were a static craze!

I don't think I ever had. See how it goes over a week and let us know. It might be it's because is super brand new.



itguy said:


> I thought I'd put through about 600g of Lavazza Rosso


 OMG. You spoilt it already. 😂👍


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> OMG. You spoilt it already. 😂👍


 Only the best for it !!

I've got my fave Limini Blue Mountain blend ready for it.. so hopefully all will be fine then. I'm considering cleaning it this evening ready, just to make sure there is no chance of Rosso-taint to anything !!


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

Frozen beans might have very little moisture...

Maybe use the WDT method for those.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Ilias said:


> Frozen beans might have very little moisture...
> 
> Maybe use the WDT method for those.


 RDT?


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> RDT?


 right, this one 😛


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Yes quite possibly. I did leave them out for a few hours first and I did the 'end of the spoon' trick and that did help for sure. I suspect nice fresh and rested beans and all will be well.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

No not RDT. You shouldnt be doing that with the niche, I presume he means wdt to settle the grinds


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KTD said:


> No not RDT. You shouldnt be doing that with the niche, I presume he means wdt to settle the grinds


 Yeah, you are right. Some people do use it, including the Hoff. I never did, not a fan.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Yes I saw the Hoff did, can't say I really want something else in my workflow to be honest. I already WDT, but need to see how necessary that is now I've got the niche


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

I got my Niche end of Jan. It has certainly revolutionised my coffee experience, but then coming from a Graef CM702 that wasn't going to be difficult.

The CM702 served me well for a number of years, but I now much better understand grind consistency (size distribution?) and the impact of fines.

I am now getting much more consistent shots and able to hit the 'sweet spot' far more easily.

Switching from espresso (ROK GC - on a saving mission) to moka (Alessi 3-cup) to immersion (aeropress - might get a clever later this year) doesn't seem that hard really. It might not be best practice and I might be getting some sub-par results, but my benchmark is such that I think everything is a lot better at the moment!

The convenience is brilliant. And it is also quiet enough that I can now grind beans whilst everyone else is asleep without fear of waking them up.

I haven't been below 8 on the grind setting yet (aeropress immersion) but will try tomorrow probably - an irrational fear of damaging something, even though the scales go to zero...

I tend to run the grinder before I grind any beans and am thinking about getting a rocket air blower just to see if that dislodges anything else. Something about the FCD that just seems to suggest a puff or two might be useful. I get a few grinds out, but it is really minimal. Does anyone use a hoover when doing a proper clean or is that a bad idea?


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

SuffolkDoug said:


> Does anyone use a hoover when doing a proper clean or is that a bad idea?


 Re the hoover, I would advise against because of the oils in the coffee will clog your filters and just make a mess of your hoover.

Think I've seen a thread giving detail on the involved dyson!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Gav86 said:


> Re the hoover, I would advise against because of the oils in the coffee will clog your filters and just make a mess of your hoover.
> 
> Think I've seen a thread giving detail on the involved dyson!


 I do use a hoover - more specifically a Henry. No issues with clogging up filters, having been doing so for many, many years!


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Gav86 said:


> Re the hoover, I would advise against because of the oils in the coffee will clog your filters and just make a mess of your hoover.
> 
> Think I've seen a thread giving detail on the involved dyson!





MediumRoastSteam said:


> I do use a hoover - more specifically a Henry. No issues with clogging up filters, having been doing so for many, many years!


 Thank you both - thankfully I don't have a dyson and mine is of a type that all the filters can be washed as required.

Good to know others have been using a hoover to clean.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

SuffolkDoug said:


> Good to know others have been using a hoover to clean.


 Just make sure you remove the springs - so they don't end up inside your hoover - which support the upper burr carrier if you choose to remove the burrs.


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## Joe shorrock (Nov 18, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Just make sure you remove the springs - so they don't end up inside your hoover - which support the upper burr carrier if you choose to remove the burrs.


 Like how Niche put spare springs until grinder wood base too, nice touch


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Joe shorrock said:


> Like how Niche put spare springs until grinder wood base too, nice touch


 You beat me to it! A nice discovery when I went in to untangle the power cord.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

SuffolkDoug said:


> You beat me to it! A nice discovery when I went in to untangle the power cord.


 I actually keep forgetting they are there!


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> I actually keep forgetting they are there!


 I'm hoping i don't need them for many years to come and then enjoy rediscovering them just after I think I'm stuffed when one needs replacing for whatever reason.


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## Bobbrown (Sep 16, 2020)

Wait, there's secret spare springs hidden in there somewhere?


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## Joe shorrock (Nov 18, 2019)

Bobbrown said:


> Wait, there's secret spare springs hidden in there somewhere?


 Haha yeah when you unscrew the wooden base, it's like they knew this would happen! Mine are still there hahs


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## BiggieBig (Nov 21, 2020)

About cleaning what steps do most people take to give their niche a clean.

I only want to remove the blurrs once in while for a deep clean.
But would be good to have a good light clean alternative.

I normally give it a tap and see grounds fall out and a quick wipe at with the provided brush.

but wondering what over do ?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Every 2-3 months I do a deep clean. Takes 10 minutes. And you'll find there isn't much build up in there either. It's a really nice design.


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

The other advantage of regular deep cleaning (I do it monthly) is that it provides an opportunity to carefully inspect everything for visible wear/damage etc. Not that I've found any yet, but it's good to know that I'm more likely to spot any future problems early by showing my kit some regular love and attention.

Regards,
John


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

Eagerly anticipating my niche in March!


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## Al Grandé (Nov 26, 2020)

Gav86 said:


> Eagerly anticipating my niche in March!


 and me..


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mine arrived on Fri, 30 Nov 2018 08:36:42 GMT. I've had one switch problem that was a one off and mentioned to DavecUK. Why I don't know but it's done lots of shots since.

Cleaning around once every 6months max as was happy about the testing that was done on carry over. It's about due now.

804 days after it arrived the setting is a lot finer than it was initially. Good sign really as it indicates a more even grind. Fit's in with some early observation about taste. I have used very light roast and obtained the sort of taste I would expect from their descriptions. LSOL.

I drink a lot of monsooned. Leaves a bit of a problem in that it takes several shots to settle down for that and other more normal beans and again back to monsooned again. They are very oily beans. No clumping problems with any beans I have used. Stirring up monsooned would be bad news.

I wasn't happy that the lid managed to spoil the markings in one place so packed the hinge up a touch with thin card. Maybe I flicked it shut too hard - pass. I think it was a bit out of level but not sure.

 I don't brew as many do so best not comment on that. I always use a fixed 30sec shot. It works for me. Prep is rather careful. I've also stuck with the can as various ideas on straight into the basket hasn't worked out for me.


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## gichka (Dec 23, 2020)

Hey guys,

Need some help.
Niche Zero and Lelit Victoria.

Just received my Niche and of course eager to try it.
Recalibrated before first use.

Medium roasted beans, roast date 9th Feb.
PID temp -> 93-94 C

So I tried range from 12 up to 20. 
Stock basket - 14-15 grams. I think I managed to find correct grind setting at 17-8.

I was able to get 30gr espresso out from 15 grams coffee in the basket. Around 30-35 seconds.
However coffee was too sour. I guess under extraction. Tried probably around 7-8 more times , increased to 16gr, decreased to 14gr, always following 1:2 ratio at 30-35seconds, but the result was always sour. Eventually I gave up, at least for today. Wasted half a bag of good beans I believe.

Could be that I am tamping too hard?
Could it be the coffee is too fresh?
Or maybe I need to load more coffee in the basket?

I know it's good to change one variable at a time, but which one that should be.


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

When I had the victoria (I now have a MaraX), I remember that 94C in the PID is NOT 94C at the puck. This is because the temperature is measured at the top of the boiler where the water is much hotter.

Doing some measurements back then with a T probe I found that I had to set my PiD to 102C to get average 92C at the coffee puck during coffee extraction.

In my Victoria (early software) there was no way to program a temperature offset (there was an offset option at the hidden PiD menu that was set by factory to 0, but when I tried to set it it was creating problems due to how it was implemented in the early software, maybe it is fixed now).

I would advise you to check the water temperature at the group.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Ilias said:


> Doing some measurements back then with a T probe I found that I had to set my PiD to 102C to get average 92C at the coffee puck during coffee extraction.


 How did you measure that?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The burrs need to run in and this usually takes 5 to 10 kilos through them. Until they settle down, the particle size will not be so uniform. Until you have reached this point, it will be really difficult to work out what is going on. Either contact a roaster and ask if the have any scrap beans you can run through or visit Aldi and the like (eBay) and buy some


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

ajohn said:


> How did you measure that?


 With a K-type thermocouple that I embedded in a middle of a coffee pack (before tamping down). I measured the average temperature during brewing. Essentially a simulated extraction. There are also dedicated portafilters to do this but hey are much more expensive.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Signstek-Channel-Digital-Thermometer-Thermocouple/dp/B00HA22XEC/ref=bmx_2?pd_rd_w=m0R05&pf_rd_p=13e7ba2a-1d6a-493d-bf19-81cf5aeecf66&pf_rd_r=GKRMAK3RJ5WCEJAP276P&pd_rd_r=f3e6f40e-c96d-4713-bc63-f6f42086ee07&pd_rd_wg=vUhqU&pd_rd_i=B00HA22XEC&psc=1

There are cheaper version of this (starting from 6GBP). IF you get one, get a waterproof K-type probe (not the one above)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Ilias said:


> With a K-type thermocouple that I embedded in a middle of a coffee pack (before tamping down).


  Poor mans Scace.

You may have a point on the temperature as it uses a rather small boiler and PID can only do so much. It gets complicated when hot flows out and cold flows in. @DavecUK might comment on an ideal size for a brew boiler.  If there is one.

As a fix /something to try I would suggest setting 98C but don't get wrapped up with a ratio of 2 or for that matter a fixed say 30sec time. Sticking to 30sec isn't a bad idea but various ratios need to be tried. Beans vary according to type. I'd be inclined to say something in the range of 2.5 to 3 is more likely to be correct.


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

ajohn said:


> You may have a point on the temperature as it uses a rather small boiler and PID can only do so much. It gets complicated when hot flows out and cold flows in. @DavecUK might comment on an ideal size for a brew boiler.  If there is one.


 It is not only that, the probe is at the top of the boiler and there is no thermosiphon effect circulating water around. So the temperature at the group is typically lower than the temperature at the top of the boiler, where it is measured. From what I remember the PiD was quite good at keeping the temperature stable... it is just that there is an offset between the temperature at the puck and the probe.


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## gichka (Dec 23, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> The burrs need to run in and this usually takes 5 to 10 kilos through them. Until they settle down, the particle size will not be so uniform. Until you have reached this point, it will be really difficult to work out what is going on. Either contact a roaster and ask if the have any scrap beans you can run through or visit Aldi and the like (eBay) and buy some


 Thanks, will try to season with some cheap. I also heard that might be part of the problem, but still it can't be that sour 



Ilias said:


> When I had the victoria (I now have a MaraX), I remember that 94C in the PID is NOT 94C at the puck. This is because the temperature is measured at the top of the boiler where the water is much hotter.
> 
> I would advise you to check the water temperature at the group.


 Yep, one of the issues with Victoria's PID. Would setting that high to 102C might cause any damage?

Actually it's a bit strange as I have discussed with a fellow member of another community using the same combo - Niche and Victoria and he is using PID at 93-4 for medium roast and said he never had to season the burrs to get good( not excellent) results initially. He started with specialty coffee and didn't report having sour shots. He even suggested me one of the single origins he tried. Well seems like his settings don't work for me even using the same setup and the coffee he suggested.

I guess my current options are - to season the burrs, try not so freshly roasted coffee and increase PID temp.


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

gichka said:


> Thanks, will try to season with some cheap. I also heard that might be part of the problem, but still it can't be that sour
> 
> Yep, one of the issues with Victoria's PID. Would setting that high to 102C might cause any damage?
> 
> ...


https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52768-pid-temperature-lelit-victoria/?do=embed

This is a topic that might help. @DavecUKalso measured 10C difference, like my findings.

Check if there is a factory offset. It really depends on your LLC version (they first victorias had zero from factory, like mine. I guess later they added an offset).


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## gichka (Dec 23, 2020)

Thanks @Ilias!

Another thing I considered. I am using the stock basket until I order VST or BaristaPro.
According to the manual it says 14 grams, but isn't that too little?

I ran my tests with 15grams, but maybe I need to go up? What was your experience using stock basket? How many grams did you use?


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

I used 16gr usually with the original basket. Just quickly check if increasing the temp helps... start with +5C.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ajohn said:


> Poor mans Scace.
> 
> You may have a point on the temperature as it uses a rather small boiler and PID can only do so much. It gets complicated when hot flows out and cold flows in. @DavecUK might comment on an ideal size for a brew boiler.  If there is one.


 I always felt 800ml was a sweet spot, but Lelits Elizabeth proved a small boiler of 300ml can do it as well. ideally though 800ml is in the goldilocks zone for me.


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## gichka (Dec 23, 2020)

Ilias said:


> I used 16gr usually with the original basket. Just quickly check if increasing the temp helps... start with +5C.


 Thanks @Ilias!

And one more thing for the Victoria, sorry for hijacking the thread.

If I can set the offset now that the machine is with new software(bought Dec2020), how much should I set it to? I understand that LLC will show boiler temperature minus the set offset, not group head temp, so what would be the ideal boiler temp I need to see? Probably I can just calculate it, once I find out the current offset and no need to adjust it? According to you boiler and puck is around 10C difference, right?

And which one of those values is showing the offset:

KP:10, KI:0.00, KD:20, B:30, E:0, F01:1, F02:20

Thanks! Sorry once again for using the Niche thread!


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## Ilias (Nov 24, 2020)

Maybe we should move this to the other thread (a moderator could) but here is the answer I got from Lelit.

@moderators please move all this discussion to a new thread ?

When I changed my offset (E) it was buggy for me. What happens is that the LLC was reaching a temperature and then stalling indefinitely. I contacted lelit and they said it is a bug. Hope they fixed it and itworks for you. Instead I just set my temp to 102 and I had great coffee with *measured* temps @92 at the puck...

Bellow is the information from Lelit.



> *KP:* up value, when this value increases, the heating element heats more frequently in the ascent phase, therefore it generates more inertia which means more degrees than the value set by the user.
> 
> On the contrary, if you decrease this value, the heating element heats less frequently in the ascent phase, therefore it generates less inertia which means less degrees than the value set by the user.
> 
> ...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I always felt 800ml was a sweet spot, but Lelits Elizabeth proved a small boiler of 300ml can do it as well. ideally though 800ml is in the goldilocks zone for me.


  The Victoria with increased temperature sounds a bit like HX machines when they are producing hot water to me.

My DB is 300ml with brew water preheat and heated group head. A review using scace show a few 1/10s C variations


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## centaursailing (Feb 27, 2012)

Having owned several grinders I read DavecUK's review on the Niche Zero with great interest and then bought one. I had an early small issue with mine where it seemed to be eating my beans with output being considerably less. This was because a circlip had become disengaged and I couldn't access the area as, a short call and it went back and was quickly returned.

I opted to buy the little disc to stop popcorning and it works a brilliantly.

Overall my experience has been, and still is, brilliant.


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

Do you guys rock your niches back and forth to knock out any grinds in the shoot?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Badgerman - There's no need in my opinion. The retention is pretty much zero.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Nope why would you.


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

It's just when I knock mine or move it some falls out so thought it might be sticking?


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## Badgerman (Nov 23, 2017)

Just tried it now. Grind your shot and then rock yours a couple of times. Grinds come out.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Badgerman said:


> Just tried it now. Grind your shot and then rock yours a couple of times. Grinds come out.


 How much?

I tend to give the lid a couple of "clacks" at the end of each grind.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

^ is that not kinda like using a bellows to dislodge any grinds.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Clacking pre dates bellows, but yes.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@MWJB 😂 then you get ceado where you bellow and clack😂😂😂

What we need is a manufacturer to create a small one of these


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Badgerman said:


> It's just when I knock mine or move it some falls out so thought it might be sticking?


 I do catch mine sometimes, because of where it is and the time of morning 😁


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

Badgerman said:


> Do you guys rock your niches back and forth to knock out any grinds in the shoot?


 I do both the clacks and the rocking, in a bid to avoid the drop of grinds when the cup isn't there. Sometimes it works. 🙂


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

I clean my Niche monthly. I've tried most of the described actions - tapping, clacking, rocking, etc. Sometimes a small puff of ground coffee came out, sometimes it didn't. My overall conclusion was, compared to doing nothing, none of this made any discernible difference to the taste in the cup - so I no longer do any of them. 
if it makes you happy, clack and rock away - if it improves the taste of your beverage, carry on. For me personally, I couldn't see any benefit.

Regards,
John


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ozzyjohn said:


> I clean my Niche monthly. I've tried most of the described actions - tapping, clacking, rocking, etc. Sometimes a small puff of ground coffee came out, sometimes it didn't. My overall conclusion was, compared to doing nothing, none of this made any discernible difference to the taste in the cup - so I no longer do any of them.
> if it makes you happy, clack and rock away - if it improves the taste of your beverage, carry on. For me personally, I couldn't see any benefit.
> 
> Regards,
> John


 The amount of coffee that drops out is extremely unlikely to affect taste.

I just do it for tidiness.


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

MWJB said:


> The amount of coffee that drops out is extremely unlikely to affect taste.
> 
> I just do it for tidiness.


 Aah, I see what you mean now - I must be lucky in that I didn't seem to get anything falling from the spout once the grinder was switched off (other than when I rocked, tapped or clacked - and then only sometimes).

Regards,
John


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Ozzyjohn said:


> I must be lucky in that I didn't seem to get anything falling from the spout once the grinder was switched off


 Mine is exactly the same.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Getting lots of sweet notes today...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@richwade80 I would jelly well hope so.


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## 28267 (Dec 8, 2020)

@richwade80 - how do they compare to Urnex Grindz for cleaning the grinder 🤣

Whilst jelly beans are expensive they are lot cheaper than Grindz!


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## Colio07 (Mar 9, 2015)

I expect there'd be some retention!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@AdG the advantage over grinds is in being able to eat them after cleaning.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> @AdG the advantage over grinds is in being able to eat them after cleaning.


I would expect you would have run some Jelly Beans through in your destruction tests Dave. Surely some unruly minor might do this. I do recall me and a friend trying to blend colouring pencils once... as a child of course!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Best thing to do with Niche is leave it alone and use it. Some build up at the top of the spout and stays there after a while. Rock and flick the spout with the finger nail might get rather small amounts out.

I've had grinds out of it that are so oily a good teaspoon full sticks to the can and it doesn't miss a beat. Just a bit messy as have to be bumped very sharply out on the tamping mat and brushed in.

While you may think things with puffers on are better - get one and see.


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## coffeek (Oct 29, 2018)

I have my espresso setting at 18 - 20 depending on the beans. Curious to know what setting most of you are using for your shots


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

coffeek said:


> I have my espresso setting at 18 - 20 depending on the beans. Curious to know what setting most of you are using for your shots


 For the beans and equipment I use, it can go from 8 to 14, but the vast majority is around 12.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

coffeek said:


> I have my espresso setting at 18 - 20 depending on the beans. Curious to know what setting most of you are using for your shots


 It varies with the beans that are being used and the various ways people may choose to brew even on an espresso machine.

The setting usually drops from new over a relatively short time and less noticeably over say 10 or more kg of beans.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Anything from 5 to 0 for my medium roasts


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## Lucian_Blue (Feb 2, 2018)

14 to 18. Most is around 15-16


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

6 to 14 highly dependent on the beans. Maybe even 5 for a dark bean towards the end of a kilo and 15 for a medium at the beginning of a kilo.


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

Around 10 with a new grinder and medium roast beans... but this is with superautomatic machines (a 15 years old Gaggia Titanium and an more recent Delonghi Magnifica 4200 s) and their respective grinder bypass, using a 10-12g dose respectively as these machines can't take more coffee at once.


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