# Mara X - particles in hot water



## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Hi all, just got a new Mara X. It's less than 2 weeks old. Noticing some weird black particles coming out of hot water spout.

pictures:


http://imgur.com/geTIQ6T


I have the lelit water tank filter in that came with it, and water comes from our filtered fridge dispenser.

Any ideas on what these particles are? I've emailed my reseller to ask. wife is worried it looks like metal fragments or something?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I always flush all machines thoroughly before use.

Heat up, switch off, open hot water tap and drain as much water as possible.

Then repeat 2 or 3 times.

Welcome to the forum.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

thanks for the reply Dave. The hot water will still come out if the machine is off? Or?


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> ...Noticing some *weird black particles* coming out of hot water spout.
> 
> wife is worried it *looks like metal fragments* or something?


 I had the exact same black-particles (metal looking at times) come out of my machine when i got it...me n missus were not best pleased at all...it only happened on the 1st use of the hot water each day; so that was sinked....suffice to say it eventually went away after a week....hopefully it won't come back...bit scary at the time as they were "metallic" looking :classic_ohmy:


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Hi Rumpelstiltskin, how much flushing did you do to 'get rid of it'? I am wondering if i should return this machine.

Also, do you have any issues with steam power in brew priority mode?


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@maraxlatte Different machine buddy; no brew-priority mode on mine lol.

No flushing as after the 1st "cupful of hot water" it was gone...but would be there the next day....totally diasappeared after a week....it was your picture that got my attention as it was identical to what i had with my machine. Follow Dave's instructions above and you should be good to go. :classic_smile:


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> @maraxlatte Different machine buddy; no brew-priority mode on mine lol.
> 
> wait, are you using a Mara X right now? #confused.


 OK, machine is warming up and will follow dave's instructions to flush 2-3 times. hope this goes away!! thanks everyone


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

maraxlatte said:


> thanks for the reply Dave. The hot water will still come out if the machine is off? Or?


 Yes, it's the steam pressure that pushes the water out, as soon as it's up to around 1.5 bar switch it off and open the water tap, with a nice big jug under the outlet.

No need to return th machine. I've often thought it might be activated charcoal.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

maraxlatte said:


> OK, machine is warming up and will follow dave's instructions to flush 2-3 times. hope this goes away!! thanks everyone


 Yes flush...flush....flush.

The water in there is probably hard enough to make a plaster cast if it's full from Italy.

There are proper instructions somewhere for flushing service boilers. Heat up, *then turn the machine off* and drain through the hot water tap. Turn the machine back on as soon as water stops coming out of the tap so it can refill (but remember to close the tap). Don't forget to switch it off before you empty the boiler through the tap.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Update: followed instructions and flushed hot water...can say the particles are 99% gone after 3 tanks!

Thanks so much everyone!  This is our first Lelit and real machine, learning lots from this great community. Cheers!


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

@maraxlatte Excellent news 😎


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> ...flushed hot water...can say the particles are 99% gone after 3 tanks!...


 ...maybe another 3 tank fulls (laborious i know) might see an end to the particles forever....good luck and well done :classic_smile:


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Update: This morning tested the hot water and saw some particles again. Had to flush out the tank and then they were 99% gone again. Will just keep flushing! I wonder what is causing these particles??


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> ...I wonder what is causing these particles??...


 I had the exact same thought with mine...at one point i was wondering if it was metal filings or some such from where things like the fittings etc had been tapped and the tiny bits had gotten trapped inside the boiler/pipes/taps...it's the "black" colour that had me confused....all gone though now as stated.


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## fitzgerald91 (Jan 29, 2021)

I also discovered these black particles yesterday... Have my machine since end of September 2020. It reminds me somehow of the water that you get out right after you switch the filter of a table water filter. There they advice you to not use the first 2-3l. So maybe it is something similar with a new water filter in the tank? I changed mine about a week ago so it could potentially be...

(Also steam boiler overpressure issue is now appearing :-/)


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

fitzgerald91 said:


> ...Also steam boiler overpressure issue is now appearing :-/...


 fwiw you *might be better off posing this issue* in the relevant section of your machine *as a seperate question* (for more exposure).....*assuming you are asking a question* and noy just stating a fact in which case just ignore this reply.😋

Welcome to the forum BTW.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Guys, so I did another test of hot water and the particles are still coming out. As suggested on another coffee forum, someone said put a magnet to the particles to see fi they were metal. I did that tonight and the metal particles did stick to a small magnet I had.

This is worrisome that metal particles are coming out of the hot water dispenser on our Lelit Mara X. I would hate to be serving my family or guests (at some point post-COVID) metal in their drinks!

Does Lelit have a bigger problem on their hands here? Someone mentioned galvanic corrosion. Should I return the machine? I have 3 days to do so left...don't want the wife to find out she will freak!!


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## Lucian_Blue (Feb 2, 2018)

For sure you cannot drink that coffee. Let return/warranty do the worrying.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> Guys, so I did another test of hot water and the particles are still coming out. As suggested on another coffee forum, someone said put a magnet to the particles to see fi they were metal. I did that tonight and *the metal particles did stick to a small magnet* I had.
> 
> This is worrisome that *metal particles* are coming out of the hot water dispenser on our *Lelit Mara X*. I would hate to be serving my family or guests (at some point post-COVID) *metal in their drinks!*
> 
> Does *Lelit have a bigger problem on their hands here?* Someone mentioned galvanic corrosion. Should I *return the machine*? I have 3 days to do so left...don't want the wife to find out she will freak!!


 Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear; and *i nearly bought a Lelit*....FWIW i tried (at the time) a magnet on my particles; it had no effect even though i thought they looked metallic of a sorts; but as stated mine completely disappeared. I can't tell you what to do but if it was me it'd be going straight back for a FULL REFUND....*the consequences of metal in liquids/foods doesn't bear thinking about*. If this happened across the pond then somebody's arse would be being sued; here you'll get a "sorry" at best.

I hope you and your family are safe and haven't swallowed any of these "metal" particles. Take care.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

We haven't been using the hot water spout at all...I haven't noticed anything from the main brew group. It's really weird. I will email for a refund.

Aside from Mara X, what other similar machines do you guys recommend? Spend more for true double boiler? Need to get a replacement now! 😕


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> ...I will email for a refund...


 I *wouldn't* be settling for just a refund....but that's *your* choice/decision to make.

Keep us updated.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

well i mean it's not the seller's fault, I blame this on Lelit. the store i deal with, idrinkcoffee.com is fantastic.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> well i mean it's not the seller's fault, *I blame this on Lelit*. the store i deal with, idrinkcoffee.com is fantastic.


 Agreed...*the seller is blameless*...this is the fault of the manufacturer.

Good luck. :classic_smile:


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## Browdo (Jan 20, 2021)

Hi all I just received mine on Tuesday and also noticed the same on first hot water test. I've not noticed since so will recheck!!


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Hi Browdo, glad I am not crazy here! I did 2-3 tank flushes as suggested here, and it go better, clearing up like 99% of the particles but not 100% clear.

Over the next few days I've been testing daily. Same issue but not as bad as the first time. Still seeing these particles and yes--they do stick to a magnet each time 😕 .

Hope your machine is fine and ours was just isolated. Also read some Bianca users suffering a similar issue, but their water was really grey and gross?


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## Browdo (Jan 20, 2021)

I've just rechecked and there is a tiny amount barely visible. Perhaps 5 specks if that. I guess eventually it will fully disperse. I will keep flushing through


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The exit pipe from the boiler is not right at the bottom, but a little raised....so the 3 flushes may not get it all....try a few more if you want, but there are 3 important points.



It won't be in the steam


it won't be in the brew water as that runs in a separate HX unit, which holds about 160-180 ml of water and has so much water through it would always be clean


Don't use hot water from a machines boiler, it's not best practice...use a kettle. (warm cups with it is fine)


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## Browdo (Jan 20, 2021)

Thanks for the info Dave.

Are you saying it is ok to wam cups with the hot water spout or not use it at all?
Seems a bit of an expensive ornament!!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Browdo - To my eyes... The only purpose of the hot water tap on an espresso machine is to drain the boiler / cycle the water now and again. With that water, yeah, feel free to make an Americano if that's your thing.

Dave can explain the rationale behind not using the water tap in a frequently basis, as he knows way more than me. 🙂


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Browdo - To my eyes... The only purpose of the hot water tap on an espresso machine is to drain the boiler / cycle the water now and again. With that water, yeah, feel free to make an Americano if that's your thing.
> 
> Dave can explain the rationale behind not using the water tap in a frequently basis, as he knows way more than me. 🙂


 Ever increasing TDS as you steam, water in large boiler for days, continually reheated....possibly not ideal for americano or tea. kettle seems so much easier and less worries about the machine.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Here's what Lelit had to say via email:

"without seeing the machine and all the factors involved it's also difficult for us to give you an exact answer or solution.

Our LAB experience shows that the water used with these machines also has a very important impact on the internal components. In our previous e-mail, we have invited you to check the water profile. We would also invite you to use bottled water with these values:

pH: 6.7-8
total Hardness 70-90 ppm CaCO3
alkalinity 50-70 ppm CaCO3
Clorides < 30 ppm
Sulphates < 30 ppm

And check if the problem persists after 2 months of constant use."


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> ...And check if the problem persists after *2 months* of constant use."...


 Well it's a *choice* then i suppose, either *do as instructed in their e-mail* r.e. water....or.....r.e. your previous Quote :- "*Need to get a replacement now*!"

.....2 months and it "*may*" (not saying that it will) still be the same....2 months wasted.....if it was mine then the safety of my family would be my reason for it going straight back.....your machine; your choice.

Best of luck with whatever route you decide to take.


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Yeah, I have already initiated a return of the Mara X for a full refund. Already ordered a Profitec Pro 700 

Mara X looked nice and all, but there is no excuse to have metal coming out of your coffee machine. People can make all the excuses they want but for a new machine seeing filtered water 2x, not acceptable.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> Yeah, I have already initiated a return of the *Mara X* for a full refund. Already ordered a Profitec Pro 700
> 
> Mara X looked nice and all, but there is no excuse to have metal coming out of your coffee machine. People can make all the excuses they want but for a new machine seeing filtered water 2x, *not acceptable*.


 That was quick...*agreed it's just not cricket*; i've slightly changed my opinion now about *Lelit*....hopefully it was a "one-off"

That *Profitec Pro 700 does look nicer*...2 gauges is nice...3 gauges (with a flow-control-kit) is "eye-candy" to me...YMMV :classic_smile:


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## maraxlatte (Jan 31, 2021)

Rincewind said:


> That was quick...*agreed it's just not cricket*; i've slightly changed my opinion now about *Lelit*....hopefully it was a "one-off"
> 
> That *Profitec Pro 700 does look nicer*...2 gauges is nice...3 gauges (with a flow-control-kit) is "eye-candy" to me...YMMV :classic_smile:


 I agree with you on the changing opinion about Lelit...seeing Bianca owners with the similar issue also was not a good sign. Didn't opt for flow control...not quite there yet, but double boiler will be nice!!


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

maraxlatte said:


> ...seeing *Bianca* owners with the *similar issue* also was *not* a good sign...


 Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....i wasn't aware of this ☝....*Lelit's crown must be slipping*....oh dear, oh dear, oh dear :classic_rolleyes:


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