# Storage dilema



## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

My kitchen is consistently pretty warm due to south facing doors and the only available cupboard space is by the oven so I can't put my beans there. I store my beans in their original bag in a dark corner of the room, but I'm beginning to think the ambient warmth is dulling the beans. After a day or so post-arrival they're noticeably less vibrant - not unpleasant just muted.

So my question - which is worse, warm room or humid fridge?


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

the fridge is not only humid but the hygroscopic nature of coffee means it will literally suck unpleasent food odours aswell as moisture from its surrounding environment. Your best bet is an airtight container in your dark corner with something like a hand towel to cover said container to avoid the worst of the warmth and the greenhouse effect. that is what I do anyway and don't have any issues.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Thank you. The last thing I want is coffee tasting of cheese, so the fridge remains off limits. This hygroscopic nature, does it mean that several coffees in the same airtight box - but in their separate bags - would sort of blend themselves together and all start tasting the same?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I keep my coffee in the garage, Usually a few degrees cooler than the house.

An alternative would be to bury your coffee in the garden to keep it cool


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Earlepap said:


> Thank you. The last thing I want is coffee tasting of cheese, so the fridge remains off limits. This hygroscopic nature, does it mean that several coffees in the same airtight box - but in their separate bags - would sort of blend themselves together and all start tasting the same?


I don't think it would happen quite to that degree but for sure I can belive that over time there is every possibility they will start to affect one another to some degree, I have experienced putting beans in a jar(I don't do it any more as bad things happen) that contained another coffee previously, after 24hours not only where they stale but they had taken on characteristics of the previous beans. Anyway, kept in separate bags sealed by folding over and over and then pegging is satisfactory enough for me to keep different coffees together in my box!

Fatboy, your digging in the garden thing has got me thinking.. I might build myself an underground coffee den in my garden!!


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I use the garage too. Next to the wine. Even in summer (hah!) it stays pretty cool.

Do you have a cooler room (bedroom, maybe?). How about the sock drawer?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Outlaw333 said:


> I might build myself an underground coffee den in my garden!!


I like the idea of that. A coffee apocalypse shelter for when Starbucks takes over, or coffee prohibition is implemented.

Sadly I don't have a garden or garage so I can't store them there, and I'm loath to put them in another room for ball aches sake. Having said that, I suppose having to get the beans from another room is a small addition to the brewing rigmarole.



tribs said:


> Do you have a cooler room (bedroom, maybe?). How about the sock drawer?


You joke but that's exactly where I keep them before I open the bag!


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Friend of mine used to keep beans in airtight containers in a "underbed" storage box on wheels! coolest place in summer!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Just a thought, haven't tried this myself yet...

How about a suitably sized bottle with a wine-neck. Fill with beans and use a vacuvin wine stopper. Safe to put in fridge as totally airtight.


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## Tryfan (Apr 11, 2012)

Or a Kilna jar?

Isn't there a potential issue with the moisture in warmer air condensing on the colder beans when removed from the fridge?


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I keep mine in a Delonghi vacum jar. Every time you close it the jar is mechanically vacume sealed. Its not cheap though....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0052CAZ2O/ref=mp_s_a_3?qid=1337124098&sr=8-3


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks Daren been looking for something like this for ages, found a similar thing but the reviews said that the vacuum failed pretty quickly, whats it like on the Delonghi one?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Does the vacuum have any effect on the rate at which the beans degas and expel carbon dioxide?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

jimbow said:


> Does the vacuum have any effect on the rate at which the beans degas and expel carbon dioxide?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


I think it would unless you aimed for the minimum amount of headspace possible. Effectly making the total volume of air in the container at an absolute minimum (lots of beans). From my limited knowledge, CO2 release from beans falls off rapidly a few days after roasting and so you couldn't extract more C02 by storing in vaccum as the reaction has finished and no C02 can be released. Could be wrong though.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

mike 100 said:


> Thanks Daren been looking for something like this for ages, found a similar thing but the reviews said that the vacuum failed pretty quickly, whats it like on the Delonghi one?


I've been using it daily for the past 6 months and it still works like new.... all I can say is so far so good. There is a vacuum indicator on the top which shows it's working and so far it has not lost pressure. It's battery operated and so far I've only had to change the batteries once - you can tell when you need to do this as the vacuum motor starts to labour and the vacuum indicator starts to show the vacuum pressure has reduced.

The machine re-vacuum's at regular time intervals to prevent it loosing pressure (the interval is set by you - either 12hrs, 24hrs or 48hrs).


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> I think it would unless you aimed for the minimum amount of headspace possible. Effectly making the total volume of air in the container at an absolute minimum (lots of beans). From my limited knowledge, CO2 release from beans falls off rapidly a few days after roasting and so you couldn't extract more C02 by storing in vaccum as the reaction has finished and no C02 can be released. Could be wrong though.


Hmm, that was my thinking too. If you create low pressure around the beans then they would give out gasses (CO2 and aromatic and volatile compounds) faster due to the pressure differential. Now if you could replace the excavated air with CO2 or Nitrogen...

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> I think it would unless you aimed for the minimum amount of headspace possible. Effectly making the total volume of air in the container at an absolute minimum (lots of beans). From my limited knowledge, CO2 release from beans falls off rapidly a few days after roasting and so you couldn't extract more C02 by storing in vaccum as the reaction has finished and no C02 can be released. Could be wrong though.


I don't have a clue about what you just wrote! You could be talking about rocket science and I would not be able to tell any difference









I have no idea if it changes the rate the beans degas. All I can say is they still taste good a couple of weeks after opening a freshly roasted bag. Having said that - a bag of beans normally only lasts me a week - but the taste remains constant and I do not need to make any adjustments to my grind in that period to maintain a good consistent shot.


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Daren said:


> I've been using it daily for the past 6 months and it still works like new.... all I can say is so far so good. There is a vacuum indicator on the top which shows it's working and so far it has not lost pressure. It's battery operated and so far I've only had to change the batteries once - you can tell when you need to do this as the vacuum motor starts to labour and the vacuum indicator starts to show the vacuum pressure has reduced.
> 
> The machine re-vacuum's at regular time intervals to prevent it loosing pressure (the interval is set by you - either 12hrs, 24hrs or 48hrs).


Thats more like it! the ones I have seen have a small thumb operated button arrangement, not a battery operated pump, looks perfect for me... thanks again


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## uma_bica (Mar 28, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> Just a thought, haven't tried this myself yet...
> 
> How about a suitably sized bottle with a wine-neck. Fill with beans and use a vacuvin wine stopper. Safe to put in fridge as totally airtight.


It's quite interesting that while talking to a friend and telling him I was planning to buy this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vacuvin-Coffee-Storage-Container-Plastic/dp/B000XTFQZM) I had the idea of trying a bottle.

Basically I've washed a bottle of white wine and let it dry for 1/2 days. Then I've even put the bottle in the oven for 5/10 mins while waiting for it to warm up for some food to make sure there was no humidity at all inside. Finally, and after a bit of effort of trying to stuff the beans though the neck with an improvised paper funnel I managed to get them all (or almost) in.

After a few days, though, the coffee extraction changed quite a bit. I had to turn my MC2's knob almost 2 turns for the same coffee I had been using for a couple of days without any problem.

I'm still curious what might've happened: unclean bottle? degassing beans (doubt it as put them in the bottle 2 days after I bought them)? some chemical reaction due to the lack of oxygen inside?

I'll probably try buying the vacuvin container and try it again but it was definitely odd...


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I am intrigued enough to give it a go. I have one on order and will see if I can do a side by side comparison against beans left in the opened, but re-sealed, packaging.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

jimbow said:


> I am intrigued enough to give it a go. I have one on order and will see if I can do a side by side comparison against beans left in the opened, but re-sealed, packaging.


Jimbow

How did you get on with your new storage container? Has it arrived yet?

I'd be interested to see if you think it is an improvement over the standard re-sealable bags


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

It is a very impressive device but the proof will be in the pudding (or perhaps espresso in this case







). I have half a bag of Jaberwocky which I put in it earlier this week and will open it on Monday.

Looking on the internet it looks like a rebranded Coffee Bean Vac. I think Kat and Gail did a video review of one a while back.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

A different take on the storage container from Coffee Hit http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/friis-coffee-canister/p783 looks interesting it has a valve that lets CO2 out and stops oxygen from getting back in, could help with de-gassing?


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I've used these for a few months, and very happy with them - but there again, I roast my own and use between 4 and 7 days, so guess that just about anything would do! These are very nicely made canisters, though.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

jimbow said:


> It is a very impressive device but the proof will be in the pudding (or perhaps espresso in this case
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I breached the seal on the container today - just over a week since I sealed it. First impressions are that the beans definitely lacked aroma although they did not smell stale either. The taste seemed rather flat and ordinary although again, it was a very different smell and taste to that produced from stale beans.

So in short, I do not think the vacuum preserves the beans perfectly but for me the real question is whether it preserves them better than simply storing them in a red bag from a certain, well-known roasting company.

I am still concerned that the low pressure environment inside the container might accelerate the discharge of volatile aromatic compounds from the beans but more experimentation is definitely required.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

You've got me thinking now..... I might also do an experiment and leave my next order of beans in the bag (I have always just popped them in the storage container, so Its hard for me to say if the container actually helps as I have no benchmark)


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I know I'm late on this one but I can see hopefully the fridge is ruled out, if you have a reasonable turnover of beans I would go for a container in the sock drawer and keep them there, if the bags folded up begged closed and the container is ok then there shouldn't be a problem, rotate containers so you can clean one and use one so there isn't a build up of coffee odour in the same container.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

geordie-barista said:


> rotate containers so you can clean one and use one so there isn't a build up of coffee odour in the same container.


Interesting. I did end up buying a air tight box to put them in - nothing fancy. I get through roughly one 250g bag a week so there's never much time to degrade unless I've bought some intriguing looking extra bags to supplement the IMM sub.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

So I got a coffee bean vac container recently and I'm starting to wonder if it might be causing detrimental 'flattening' of my beans in terms of flavour.

I have 2 bags of the same beans, same roast date. One bag I put in the vac and I've opened it once a day. Flavour just seems diminished but I can't compare properly until I open the other bag.

What are people's thoughts on these containers for people that have already done this comparison?

To me I think you only need enough air removed to form a properly seal of the container.

Any more is affecting the rate at which the beans age.

Proof will come when I open the other bag.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

My thoughts and experiences are very much the same. The beans stored in the vacuum seem perhaps slightly fresher but flatter. I still need to test this more but wonder whether the low pressure environment is physically 'sucking' the volatile and aromatic compounds out of the beans. I think the best option is a container that has a variable volume allowing the removal of excess air without affecting the pressure. Something like the Airscape or perhaps simply a re-sealable foil bag with one way gas release valve. With the valve, as the beans expel CO2 then remaining oxygen may be displaced and expelled from the bag.

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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Take a look at Gail & Kat's videos's (http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com) they have a couple on storage containers including the friis and the delonghi vacuum type.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks, I have the Delonghi myself which seems to basically be a rebranded coffee bean vac as demoed by Kat and Gail. My own experiences are that HasBean re-sealable bags seem to work just as well if not better providing as much of the excess air in the bag is squeezed out prior to resealing.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Not tired the vacuum boxes, but have used a certain make of air tight "click top" box for my beans and them put them in the freezer until needed, i only put enough in the grinder for the day, i normally order up to 3 or 4 Kg as it free postage and keep them up to 2 moths this way and the last been only lose a little flavour compared the first grind, they are delivered in foil bags that go strait in the freezer then as they are opened the get decanted into the boxes, never had any trouble with the beens being damp or tasting stale, but then i suspect i don't have a refined pallet as some.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I came up with an interesting idea. My vac bean container has a clasp type thing that needs to be fully 'clipped' to activate the pump.

I've been trying only letting the pump run enough for the vac indicator to move a tiny bit then lift the clasp up a tiny bit so the pump deactives but container is still sealed. This would remove some air, enough to form a nice seal but not 'suck out the volatiles'.

Any advantage of this over keeping in zip lock, one-ways a la Has Bean bags?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting idea. What have been your experiences so far? It would be great if this works, I think it is a really nicely made piece of kit.

Thinking about it logically I expect that removing any air from a fixed volume container will still probably create a low pressure environment inside the container, around the beans, causing them to release volatile compounds more rapidly. Of course I am entirely speculating that low pressure will have this effect and would love to be proved wrong.

To avoid the low pressure, I imagine one would need to either replace the expelled air with something else (perhaps an inert gas such as CO2 or nitrogen) or allow the container to shrink with the expulsion of air (like the Airscape or re-sealable bags). What do you think and can you see a way of making it work?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Yes I can lol, I also tested putting my Has Bean bag inside the bean vac.

Upon opening, low and behold one fully deflated bag of beans!

Can't comment on how this affects the beans yet but it just seems a waste of a fine bit of kit not to use it.

Will play around a bit more.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> How about a suitably sized bottle with a wine-neck. Fill with beans and use a vacuvin wine stopper.


Have tried that but find the seal does not keep for very long.

Think I'm going to give this a try: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001SGXMJG/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

Looks good but cannot find anyone 100% sure. Will let you know


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

That is basically the same device that Fatboyslim and I have been using. My concern is that it creates a low pressure atmosphere around the beans which could "suck" the volatile aromatics out of the beans.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I take on board your point. I used to use vacu-seal bags with an air extractor but found a distinct flattening in flavour after a week or so. Either that or the seals did not hold well.

You've already done the research on this & I do agree on the reason for loss of intensity. I have there fore decided to try this:

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/airscape-stainless-steel-storage-container/?pkey=e|airscape%2Bstainless-steel%2Bstorage%2Bcontainers|1|best|0|1|24||1&cm_src=PRODUCTSEARCH||NoFacet-_-NoFacet-_-Top_Wide_Agrarian%20-%20copy-_-

Arriving from USA in 10 days will post my findings. Reports on this canister appear very positive. Even with postage it works out cheaper than the Amazon battery model.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks Ronsil, I would love to hear how you get on with it. In theory, this container should work very well as it has a variable capacity.


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## uma_bica (Mar 28, 2012)

ronsil said:


> I take on board your point. I used to use vacu-seal bags with an air extractor but found a distinct flattening in flavour after a week or so. Either that or the seals did not hold well.


I reckon that as well. Try putting some beans in a (properly cleaned and dry) bottle and using vacuvin bottle taps. After a few (3-4) days the coffee was almost undrinkable. The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine that the fancy vacuvin coffee storage. However, I can't say precisely when the coffee was roasted and if that was part of the problem.


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## Mal (Jul 30, 2011)

It seems to me quite likely that any vacuum-based storage system could be pulling volatiles out of the coffee which will adversely affect the taste.

As for valve-based systems, I really don't see how they're supposed to work. For starters, CO2 is heavier than air, it's going to be sitting at the bottom the jar. In addition, you have a rigid airtight container - that CO2 ain't going to be going anywhere unless something comes in to replace it. Maybe I'm missing something but I think if those Friis jars do anything it's because they're metal, opaque and airtight; the valves add nothing. They are nice all the same though. Bags are a different matter as they're collapsible

Heat, light and moisture are coffee's biggest enemies. I don't have much of a problem with heat as my kitchen cupboards stay fairly cool and I just use glass Killner jars that I've painted to keep the light out - cheap and seems to work OK (though admittedly coffee doesn't hang about long around here anyway). If heat is an issue, how about keeping your coffee tightly sealed in the original bags and use something like a cool bag to keep them in. Not as cold as the fridge and no danger of contamination from that bit of mouldy cheese. I've never tried this but it seems like a logical solution.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

My 'Airscape' canister arrived from USA last week, 7 days from order.

I started using it immediately & put 250 grams Peru SO as soon as roasted. Initially I left off the inner lid with the vacuum seal clip & put the beans in with just the top lid which has a one way valve. I left it like this for 4 days to out gas. Afterwards I fitted the inner seal pushing right down onto the top of the beans. I felt very happy to hear all the air hissing out as the seal descended. There is a little fold away handle which you push flat to complete the seal.

I used the beans within 3 days, maybe opening & closing the seal in the canister a dozen or so times. It was a short period but no noticeable difference found in the espressos.

I have now put the balance of my 'Fudgee-Bear' in the tin with the inner seal on. I propose to leave till next weekend to see what happens.

However I am impressed up to now. These canisters will meet my daily needs & as I use 500-750 grams per week. I have now ordered a second one to enable me to keep two different coffees on the go.

A small downside, the label goes three-quarters way around the outside & does not come off very easily. If I attempt too hard I could damage the outer surface. Will probably end up sticking one of my own labels with coffee name on top.

All in all I think it a good buy.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but hard-to-remove sticky labels generally walk off if you spray them with WD-40 and leave them for a few minutes. Works wonders in getting the residue of the stick stuff off as well. (And if the container is airtight the coffee shouldn't get tainted by the WD-40.)


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Hey! that works - thanks a bunch - would offer you a cup of the 'fudge' if you were here:good:


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

I live in a very hot Country. I keep my coffee beans when a new bag is opened in a sealed container in the freezer. They are removed only to take out a brew weight and for the shortest possible time period and then back into the freezer quickly. I've done this for about two years without any noticeable deterioration in the brews.

Blimey, the amount of wasted beans before then would have bankrupted me.


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## Catlady101 (Sep 26, 2020)

Greetings knowlegable peoples,what do you think of this for storing beans

Marajuana Bag for coffee?

The issue is - space. I have cleared a shelf for the lovely bags of beans, but realised that part of the kitchen temperatures vary wildly, so I found some lovely double walled black containers with co2 degassing valves - but their measurements are too big for my shelf ( has a lip all the way round so things can't even hang over the edge a little)

and I just kept searching for airtight humidity black bags and this, no joke, is the only thing I found.

so with carbon filters and all - will it help my beautiful beans at all, or should I just decamp them to a dark drawer with the unmentionables?😈


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Catlady101 said:


> Greetings knowlegable peoples,what do you think of this for storing beans
> 
> Marajuana Bag for coffee?
> 
> ...


 I wouldn't even keep weed in that 😂

I'd keep one Airscape in your kitchen with the beans you have on the go. Store the rest in their bags in another room.


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## Catlady101 (Sep 26, 2020)

Aha!

I was perusing Rave and found these ( and ordered a bunch)

https://ravecoffee.co.uk/products/zip-lock-bags-with-degassing-valve

- they are black, sealable, degassing bags for coffee, genius ( I did buy some storage jars, but the little space I have available means that I cannot store all my coffee in them)

I plan to decant into the Rave bags when the coffee arrives and store them in a drawer with the unmentionables 😁


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