# Take five minutes to help us create the perfect coffee shop!



## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

We're a small group of friends being made redundant in March, so taking some initiative to become self-employed and 'following the dream' to open the perfect coffee shop in Birmingham.

Clearly you're here as a Coffee Lover, like me, and whether you're from Brum or not I need your expert customer views to help us understand what makes the perfect coffee shop. Please take the very quick, short survey here: *click*

I haven't been a member here long but learning a great deal that will help us already.

Thanks for your help!


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## hashluck (Jan 11, 2011)

I have responded. It would be nice if you could share the results with other forum members once done. You have left a very important question off the survey regarding why you might go to a specific coffee shop......the taste of the coffee!


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Personally I look for a coffee shop that has well trained, customer focused staff, who are intent on producing the best coffee possible every time

All other factors are irrelevant if they cannot get these fundamentals right

As mentioned above, the taste of the coffee and even the roaster is quite important.

Tasting notes for the coffee are also welcomed

An engaging barista far outweighs the music or having a child friendly establishment (for me anyway)

Hopefully the survey results will be shared in some form as they are always useful for review

Birmingham does need decent cafes - there are very few at present that I would visit


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

It depends on what kind of Coffee shop you want to be. I believe people in this country are moving away from the Starbucks and Costas as the Coffee they produce is very poor (IMO) mainly due to poorly trained staff who do not care about Coffee in the same way that people on this forum do. I think most folks here will be happy to pay more to have a quality Coffee prepared by a skilled barista. Best thing you can do is get your friends together and travel down to London for the day. Then spend the day visiting the most popular coffee shops (there's a thread here somewhere listing them) Then you can see for yourself what makes these establishments popular and you'll get loads of good ideas. I say London as there's so many within a close vicinity.


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## Steven Sum (Jan 11, 2011)

Survey done. I added "freshly roasted beans" as a requirement.


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## Howard (Sep 28, 2010)

Training, training, training!


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## HLA91 (Jul 16, 2010)

Completed, I forgot to add freshly roasted beans but did add quality of the coffee.


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## Grumpy (Jan 21, 2011)

Hi

There are only 3 issues for any food business after you have decided on the type of cafe you want, (by type I mean ultra modern, classic, traditional etc.) and they are Quality products, Quality service and Cleanliness. I have owned my own successful café which was sold 4 years ago and has had 2 owners since, both owners have not followed the rules and it is only just surviving.

Of course there are many more considerations which all affect the success of the business but the three rules will help to guarantee the success of the café. Although very closely related it is possible to have a successful café and a poor business.

I have also opened a 125 cover restaurant in XIAN China, 3 cafes in the UK and an Indian for clients.

Anyway I'm now retired and if you wish I would be only too happy to offer any advice I can, which of course you can take on board or ignore as you choose. I will say I have every respect for anyone who has the courage and I wish you the best of luck.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I think its worth visiting some of the chains to see what they get right and what they get wrong. Since I have children and visited such establishments when they were younger, I appreciated those that were buggy friendly, and had drinks/food appropriate.

What will the clientele by like in the area you are proposing?


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

hashluck said:


> I have responded. It would be nice if you could share the results with other forum members ... a very important question off the survey regarding why you might go to a specific coffee shop......the taste of the coffee!


Will share no problem. Didn't forget the taste question as we took it as a given it'll taste great ... at least to us as I appreciate not all of us like the same taste 



Glenn said:


> Personally I look for a coffee shop that has well trained, customer focused staff, who are intent on producing the best coffee possible every time ... the roaster is quite important. Tasting notes for the coffee are also welcomed ... An engaging barista ... results will be shared in some form as they are always useful for review
> 
> Birmingham does need decent cafes - there are very few at present that I would visit


Agree with all that. Thanks Glenn. Do you know Urban Coffee in Brum? About the best I've found as an all rounder - have two branches; tho a new indi shop opened a few weeks back called 6/8 kaffe looked promising on opening day. Worth popping in.



MonkeyHarris said:


> It depends on what kind of Coffee shop you want to be. I believe people in this country are moving away from the Starbucks and Costas as the Coffee they produce is very poor (IMO) mainly due to poorly trained staff who do not care about Coffee in the same way that people on this forum do. I think most folks here will be happy to pay more to have a quality Coffee prepared by a skilled barista. Best thing you can do is get your friends together and travel down to London for the day. Then spend the day visiting the most popular coffee shops (there's a thread here somewhere listing them) Then you can see for yourself what makes these establishments popular and you'll get loads of good ideas. I say London as there's so many within a close vicinity.


Yeah, I've been on a mission checking all kinds of place, indi and branches, and making notes/picking up what works and what doesn't. Am heading to Cockney-land on 10th Feb and intend cherry-picking a few benchmark places in advance to see how they operate, etc. One things that is so, so clear is the difference between owner operated places and 'untrained' staff operated ... in terms of taste but also vibe.



Steven Sum said:


> Survey done. I added "freshly roasted beans" as a requirement.





Howard said:


> Training, training, training!





HLA91 said:


> Completed, I forgot to add freshly roasted beans but did add quality of the coffee.


Cheers guys!



Grumpy said:


> Hi
> 
> There are only 3 issues for any food business after you have decided on the type of cafe you want, (by type I mean ultra modern, classic, traditional etc.) and they are Quality products, Quality service and Cleanliness ... Anyway I'm now retired and if you wish I would be only too happy to offer any advice I can, which of course you can take on board or ignore as you choose. I will say I have every respect for anyone who has the courage and I wish you the best of luck.


Thanks for that very ungrumpy offer ... you may well hear from us. Rules have been noted. Appreciate the good wishes 



BanishInstant said:


> I think its worth visiting some of the chains to see what they get right and what they get wrong. Since I have children and visited such establishments when they were younger, I appreciated those that were buggy friendly, and had drinks/food appropriate.
> 
> What will the clientele by like in the area you are proposing?


Not sure on area yet. We're heading out on a bit of whistle stop tour Friday to ID possible locations. My guess is we'll be limited to what's available and where it is (within parameters) and choose from that. Rent clearly a big deal when it comes to budgets. City centre Brum is pretty well covered for mass audience, so we'll need to be smart in finding the balance between footfall, rent and what we offer (and to who!)

Anyway, we've reached our free 100 responses via Survey Monkey so survey done. Thanks so much folks for taking time to express your opinions. We got some invaluable supplementary ideas in the text boxes as well as survey responses, plus the stuff above which is great.

Fingers crossed we can do justice to everyone's ideas!


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## coffeeman (Mar 20, 2010)

Whoops, looks like I completed too late then but it seemed to accept my results. One thing I would like to see would be a cafe that offers a place for local barista's to hang out. maybe with a few coffee specific books and mags. probably wouldn't have a massive amount of potential but I kinda like the idea of being able to hang out somewhere with like-minded barista's


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

Seems Survey Monkey keeps collecting but only shows us the first 100 results. The free version does a job but kinda sucky in terms of features. We're going to transfer survey data to a pro account of someone we know so we can see all results ... so your efforts won't be wasted 

The barista meet up place idea is actually pretty good. Likely would work better in London but will keep in mind.


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## Grumpy (Jan 21, 2011)

Hi Again

Now you're looking for a location can I offer one piece of advice without being asked?

The number of seats is most important. (of course it is I can hear you say). This is just one of the ways you can have a successful cafe but unsuccessful business. Ok that sounds a bit obvious but it happens all the time and owners find the number of staff they need to operate the tables they have could in fact operate twice as many. Or worse still the number of tables you operate will not return enough to cover the overheads and because of this you end up doing everything yourself. Your customers love your cafe love your food and hopefully love your coffee, but you're dead on your feet.

Grumpy


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks for that and it's something we've been mulling over. There seem to be so many variables as paert of any financial forecasting, like floor space and impact on rental costs, number of tables that will fit, then number of staff to attend to tables, then order number may mean larger kitchen/prep space, etc, etc. i guess maybe there's a magic formula i can work out + finger in the air. Where are you located Grumpy?


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## Grumpy (Jan 21, 2011)

Hi. I'm in Leicester, not too far away. You can email me at [email protected]

There's no real formula, but remember your trade is really concentrated into meal times and that's when you need to be in a position to take advantage and have enough seating to cope, however you need to decide on how you want to operate your cafe. Do you want a carry out trade? Do you want to sell wine/ bottled beer and develop an evening trade? Location should take into account other businesses in the area; offices etc, corporate catering is a good source of income and can be very easy to operate. Footfall is important and I work on a 1.5 to 3% ratio. What is more important is to keep customers, provide an excellent food and drink experience and turn your customers into regulars.

Good hunting


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks again. You're obviously a mine of valuable, proven information, stuff we're not even thinking about yet but need to. Will be in touch over coming weeks once we feel in a position to make real sense of your experience. Could pop over to Leicester easily.


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## Grumpy (Jan 21, 2011)

Happy to help, will waqit for your email.

Grumpy


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

Some of you asked for a copy of our 'viral' coffee shop survey results. It's posted below. We've found it useful, confirming many things but also offering a few surprises, and we would be interested in any further thoughts any of you may have. Of course, being viral, we had no control over who may respond. Our desire was simply to gain a toe in the water around what customers want. Clear most prefer indi shops. We had an influx on the last day of about 10 responses favouring Starbucks for some reason. Otherwise, Costa was second placed. the gender/age split also interesting - we expected younger but results were consistent from the first day

It's here for a few days: *click*


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks for sharing Dave









This is the first time (that I can recall) that we have had the results from surveys conducted here published

Hope you're able to draw some conclusions


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

Some interesting results - thanks for sharing


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Definitely interesting results


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## GrumpyOldWesty (Dec 10, 2010)

Every good wish with your new venture, I will be in as soon as you open. Make sure we know when and where.

Peter


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## Condyk (Jan 9, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Thanks for sharing Dave
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We'll use of the data to inform planning and choices for sure, but at the end of the day my view is this stuff only has so much value and you have to follow your vibes when it comes to creating your own business.

BTW, I note in one thread that you had a business plan template that some had found very handy. Any chance of letting me have a copy. As with the survey, might just offer some useful stuff. be really grateful.



GrumpyOldWesty said:


> Every good wish with your new venture, I will be in as soon as you open. Make sure we know when and where.
> 
> Peter


Will let folks here know when we get sorted with premises. You'd be very welcome.


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## ifunky_ltd (Oct 16, 2013)

Dave

Just wondering if you managed to get this kicked off mate?

Umar


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I just followed the info in his sig, which sent me to this facebook page.

Surprised me to find that this was one of the coffee shops I visited when I was working on a TV Production in Brummie. I bought a few rounds of coffee from this very shop, and talked to a few of the staff, coffee was very good!


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## ifunky_ltd (Oct 16, 2013)

Wow! Thats awesome! Looking to live the coffee shop dream, its nice to see people doing well!


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## badger28 (Jan 5, 2013)

This is one of three coffee shops in Birmingham which I really enjoy.

It has a real indie vibe. Good music too. Although I do prefer the coffee in 6/8 kafe (espresso).


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## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

just went on the facebook link and shame that he has to sell after all that effort.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

This is taken directly off his Facebook page. It looks like poor health is the reason for sale which is a real shame. An opportunity for someone in Birmingham?

"Brewsmiths Coffee & Tea

Yesterday at 07:02

It's with considerable regret that we're putting Brewsmiths up for sale: regret is mainly that we haven't been able to achieve all we set out to do, tho in so many ways we've done ourselves proud. With my health issues not likely to improve much and Kate well underway in her new career we know it's the best way of securing a good future for the business.

We want to invite offers from serious buyers ready to complete a sale quickly. Any deal will be lock, stock and barrel and inclusive all the advice you need to take on the business with confidence. The business will be debt free with a great staff team in place.

The business is well run, super lean with lower than typical overheads. We have a great reputation that can be built further with the right focus and energy.

We'll hold off advertising for a while as we'd like locals, a partnership or coop of people , or existing staff to have first option. So, if you have ever had interest in running a place like Brewsmiths this opportunity is probably as good a chance you'll have.

The business is ideally suited for a couple or 2-3 friends to run, or as a medium to longer term investment. The area around us is developing fast and with a new office building now seriously mooted to start opposite the future is bright."


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yes, I know Dave , whats happended is sad. They are selling for the right reasons and the place will work with the right buyer


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

So when do you take over there then Gary ?


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