# Disappointing beans...



## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Bad Monday.... Got some Mexican beans from a roaster who previously gave me one of the best roasts ever and they tasted really strange, not pleasant. Popped downstairs to Tesco for some Taylors House Decaf and that was pretty poor as well, but better than the Mexican at any rate. What's the deal with Mexican coffee - production has dropped significantly due to rust and poor management so is it still an option? Anyway, a bad day's coffee all round.

Can you name some of your most disappointing beans and what their origin was?


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## ajh101 (Dec 21, 2013)

Did you speak to the roaster about the beans?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

ajh101 said:


> Did you speak to the roaster about the beans?


No - not so far. The beans were from Sierra Azul which is in the Chiapas region close to Guatemala, so not a bad place for coffee growing in principle. Varieties there are Typica, Bourbon, Mundo Novo. See: https://www.coffeehunter.com/the-coffee/sierra-azul-organic/

Don't know what's affected the taste here.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have had loads of disappointing beans, but the question I always ask myself is were they crap, or perhaps just not to my taste? This is the reason why I find a bean, learn it, stick with it until it runs out!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I have had loads of disappointing beans, but the question I always ask myself is were they crap, or perhaps just not to my taste? This is the reason why I find a bean, learn it, stick with it until it runs out!


You have tonnes of Tarzan juice,haha


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

To suggest that all beans from a region are sub standard based on one cup of coffee is ludicrous.

Mexico produces excellent coffee and I've had several in the past. It also produces a lot of commodity which may not be so good.

Talk to the roaster. What flavours were you expecting? Can you be sure that it was the beans and not the barista? Was it decaf?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I have had loads of disappointing beans, but the question I always ask myself is were they crap, or perhaps just not to my taste? This is the reason why I find a bean, learn it, stick with it until it runs out!


The question I still ask myself as a novice but a fairly quick learner is "did I do everything correctly?".......


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Step21 said:


> To suggest that all beans from a region are sub standard based on one cup of coffee is ludicrous.
> 
> Mexico produces excellent coffee and I've had several in the past. It also produces a lot of commodity which may not be so good.
> 
> Talk to the roaster. What flavours were you expecting? Can you be sure that it was the beans and not the barista? Was it decaf?


I'm not making ludicrous statements, I'm exploring the question of what I can expect from Mexican coffee according to the region, and as you can see from the reference I provided, I always do my proper research. I'm rather nonplussed because Chiapas has produced excellent coffee as you say. But also I've read up on the recent difficulties facing coffee growers in Mexico. I've never had any coffee from Mexico so wasn't expecting anything, though I did figure that since the region is close to the Guatemalan border that might be a reasonable starting place.

Beans or barista? Good question, but previous coffees from Guatemala and Columbia have cupped nicely. Yes, it was decaf and the method may have some bearing on this. It's Mexican mountain water. This is described as not using chemicals, and presumably it uses osmosis like Swiss Water. What effect that has I don't know.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> I'm not making ludicrous statements, I'm exploring the question of what I can expect from Mexican coffee according to the region, and as you can see from the reference I provided, I always do my proper research. I'm rather nonplussed because Chiapas has produced excellent coffee as you say. But also I've read up on the recent difficulties facing coffee growers in Mexico. I've never had any coffee from Mexico so wasn't expecting anything, though I did figure that since the region is close to the Guatemalan border that might be a reasonable starting place.
> 
> Beans or barista? Good question, but previous coffees from Guatemala and Columbia have cupped nicely. Yes, it was decaf and the method may have some bearing on this. It's Mexican mountain water. This is described as not using chemicals, and presumably it uses osmosis like Swiss Water. What effect that has I don't know.


Perhaps you have got some commodity coffee that's been made into decaf.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

The last bean I remember being disappointed with was a washed Ethiopian heirloom varietals. It promised creamy and fruity flavours but I just could not get a satisfactory brew out of it. It was a new roaster and I've not tried them again since. Now, I know that there are loads of exceptional Ethiopian coffes from the same region, this just wasn't one. It hasn't put me off that type of coffee.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

Who is the roaster of the beans? I might have had them.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Elcee said:


> Who is the roaster of the beans? I might have had them.


James Gourmet Sierra Azul Decaf. As I said, I previously had a wonderful Guatemalan Jalapa from them and they're good people, so I'm not throwing any mud here. I managed to pull a better shot subsequently, so I'm part of the equation of course. But there's some lingering taste in there which others have called "rustic" in relation to Mexican coffee. Can't put my finger on exactly what it tastes of. Not exactly what's called "earthy" in Sumatran but something along those lines. If you did have them I'd be very interested to know your own experience.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> James Gourmet Sierra Azul Decaf. As I said, I previously had a wonderful Guatemalan Jalapa from them and they're good people, so I'm not throwing any mud here. I managed to pull a better shot subsequently, so I'm part of the equation of course. But there's some lingering taste in there which others have called "rustic" in relation to Mexican coffee. Can't put my finger on exactly what it tastes of. Not exactly what's called "earthy" in Sumatran but something along those lines. If you did have them I'd be very interested to know your own experience.


Ah I had those beans but from Garage Roasted (https://www.garageroasted.co.uk/collections/single-origins-1/products/sierra-azul-organic-decaf-mexico). Caveat here is that I only brew filter coffee so pour overs and immersion. I enjoyed the beans but disagreed with the notes. I didn't find them fruity but more like dark chocolate and nutty. I contacted the roaster about it and they said the notes were for espresso and what I got in filter was what they'd expect.

I mentioned to me it seemed like an issue of expectations: I enjoyed the beans but I didnt get flavours on the bag in any of the brews in any brew method and I felt that detracted from the experience.

I actually ordered a bag of those from JG on Sunday so it'll be interesting to see how they come out. The previous two decaffs from JG I had including that Guatemalan were great. In my experience decaffs in speciality (applying the same standards as in caffeinated) range from simply awful to excellent.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

JG should be good quality beans and roast.


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## robashton (May 9, 2015)

On the original topic, if I sat here listing roasters who have sent me disappointing beans... I think the coffee forums would suspect me of a denial of service attack against the database..

But, roasters have good days and bad days, I've been sent papery coffee from some of the best roasters in the UK and it was just a blip - on an even more extreme note occasionally whether it's me or the roaster themselves, I go off a particular source for half a year or so and then come back and it's completely different again (I suspect somebody else ends up behind the roaster in a lot of these cases) *shrug*. My tastes do tend to drift as well, but that's something I'm generally cognisant of and my choice of order usually reflects that.

Prime example right now is probably Square Mile, last three coffees I've had off them have been stunning but two years ago what I was being sent was utterly insoluble and despite them sending me a fresh batch I had the same problem and despite an e-mail chain including even James Hoffman himself we chalked it down to a difference of expectations and moved on. Pointless worrying about it really, coffee I don't like goes in the bin without a second thought these days.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Elcee said:


> I mentioned to me it seemed like an issue of expectations: I enjoyed the beans but I didnt get flavours on the bag in any of the brews in any brew method and I felt that detracted from the experience. I actually ordered a bag of those from JG on Sunday so it'll be interesting to see how they come out. The previous two decaffs from JG I had including that Guatemalan were great. In my experience decaffs in speciality (applying the same standards as in caffeinated) range from simply awful to excellent.


James Gourmet are a quality roaster and I'll certainly be ordering again - that Guatemalan Jalapa was beautifully roasted. They don't roast too dark, so some nice notes in there. A previous poster asked what I expected from Mexican coffee, and in my limited experience I guess I expected Guatemalan, since Chiapas is just across the border. I'm still a bit all over the place with temperature surfing but getting better, and the good shots with Guatemalan were rich and sweet. I haven't been able to get rich and sweet from this Sierra Azul however I pull it. But I have to say that my better shots - now I've pulled a few - are much better and I'm actually coming round to this coffee taste. It's dry and nutty - something more like Cabernet Sauvignon. I've only been brewing proper coffee for 2 months with my Classic and I still haven't tried the African varieties. From what I read they are going to be on the drier and more acidic side as well. This is a taste I'll have to develop since I don't want to spend my whole coffee life tasting dark sweet chocolate. I need a temperature sensor so I can see what I'm doing, and that should help me 'get to know the beans' and what to do with them. I'm nowhere near adjusting the temperature up or down 3 degrees - it's just guesswork right now, though I do weigh. I have found that this Sierra Azul likes a brew ratio of not much over 1:1. That made a really positive difference - longer extractions weren't working well.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yeah the temp swings on a classic/slivia are killer for getting consistent espresso.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yeah the temp swings on a classic/slivia are killer for getting consistent espresso.


Yeah - for sure. I'm developing a better routine. Strangest thing is that I'm actually getting to like these beans. They were roasted March 2nd, so 5 days ago. Could the beans themselves be improving in some way? I read about resting beans but know nothing about that particular black art. I've been using them for 3 days and they're better each day. Or my shots are......


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> Yeah - for sure. I'm developing a better routine. Strangest thing is that I'm actually getting to like these beans. They were roasted March 2nd, so 5 days ago. Could the beans themselves be improving in some way? I read about resting beans but know nothing about that particular black art. I've been using them for 3 days and they're better each day. Or my shots are......


I think it's pretty standard to let beans rest for a week post roast (as ever all beans will be different but that's a good starting point!)


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Wouldn't use beans until at least 5 days post roast and even then only if I'd ran out. 7 probably the standard


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

KTD said:


> Wouldn't use beans until at least 5 days post roast and even then only if I'd ran out. 7 probably the standard


Thanks guys! I'm learning something here. So what would I typically be experiencing in the first 5 days in terms of taste? Can you give me any kind of guide for what I'd actually taste in the cup that would tell me to wait a bit longer?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> Thanks guys! I'm learning something here. So what would I typically be experiencing in the first 5 days in terms of taste? Can you give me any kind of guide for what I'd actually taste in the cup that would tell me to wait a bit longer?


[video=youtube;Vx-n7ED74Vc]






Personally I found things a little Gassy, overly sour perhaps and extractions a little variable


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

From a roasters perspective it would always be useful to get feedback. Of course, there are a lot of factors in play but even when roasters have tight practices and good QC/QA - there's no way to get away from the fact that coffee changes over time or there may be issues with certain members of their team that the roaster needs to address. Sometimes of course, it's just preferences not aligning but once you've found a roaster you like, then feedback should always be valued.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

foundrycoffeeroasters.com said:


> From a roasters perspective it would always be useful to get feedback. Of course, there are a lot of factors in play but even when roasters have tight practices and good QC/QA - there's no way to get away from the fact that coffee changes over time or there may be issues with certain members of their team that the roaster needs to address. Sometimes of course, it's just preferences not aligning but once you've found a roaster you like, then feedback should always be valued.


Good point. Roasters are right in the middle of everything. It's probably a good thing I didn't talk to James Gourmet in the first place because I wouldn't have made any sense. For whatever the reason - resting the beans or just pulling better shots - I now really like the same beans I couldn't get any satisfaction out of, even to the point that I might re-order some. That's the last thing I would have expected, and it's been a real lesson in getting to know what to do with a particular bean.

Engineers usually say 'RTFM' to punters who don't know what they're talking about, and in the same way roasters probably get some unfounded and plain silly phone calls, of which I would have been one. But who knows - someone more knowledgeable than me might have said "wait a few days and see if the taste changes".


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

That is a great outcome. Glad to hear you're enjoying them now.


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