# moka pot



## Dazzler83

I have both a 3 and 6 cup moka pot, at present i'm using medium roast at a corse grind to achieve my brew, this is done over a low flame so takes aproximatly 5-7 mins depending on water temp when placed on the flame. i'm using aproximatly 12g grounds per cup  so in teh 3 cup i use 24g for two cups. and 72g for the big moka, does this sound right as a rough starting point for new beans?

brewing faster (bigger flame) tends to leave me with a bitter (not plesant) after tast. any hints/tips for a better pot of moka?

beans all taste different but they will all share the same bitter after taste if brewed too quick.

my initial thoughts, use a corser grind and brew even slower to get a similar coffee. or grind smaller and try faster?

thoughts please.

Daz

NB- i am using an older german manual grinder which is cleaned about once a week. the grinder does produce an even looking grind without much dust or chunks produced.


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## garydyke1

Do you use boiling water to start with from the kettle?


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## Dazzler83

no i tend to use room temp water tap water filtered and allowed to warm to room temp. Depending on the weather the temp can vary about 10C and start the brewing process with this water.

NB - i tend to fill my basket and polish the grounds and not tamp them.


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## vintagecigarman

I've always had my best success using very hot water to start with - less time over the flame and less time for the coffee to get scorched in the heat. And then lift it off the heat as soon as the coffee starts to come through.


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## chimpsinties

^^ This.

I've always used boiling water in the bottom too.


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## RobD

apart from using hot water is dont let it brew for to long, once you have the bulk of the water through and it starts to make a plop plop as the steam starts to come through remove it from the heat this stops any over heated extraction.

the amount of coffee is really down the the strength you require, i have an old Bialetti that i have had for about 15 years and in that time its been so full from nearly bending the screen to scraping the bottom of the tin for the last dregs and everything in between.

its still one of my Fav brew methods when i get the time. im looking forward to getting my new grinder up and running so i can use it for more than one coffee method.


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## Dazzler83

I'll be trying the water hot when i get home this evening.


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## Dazzler83

much better. no bitter taste to speak of.

thanks guys.


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## Dazzler83

I have been using this hot water method for about a week now, i have had one bitter cup from my moka and this was a decaf blend (super market packet of grinds) which i presume were too fine for the pot.

one thing i have noticed is that somtimes instead of bubbleing up through the spout crasting an amber foam in my top chamber it spits dark (very dark) drops of coffee resulting in a much longer brew time.

any ideas?

Dazzler


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## MWJB

Any sign of leakage around the screw thread between bottom & top chambers? The hot water fill-up method, can make it a little harder to get the 2 sections tight as without burning your hands?


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## Dazzler83

i use a tea towel to hold the bottom chamber when screwing together, no sign of any leakage i have a defind ring on the seal when i uncrew ready for cleaning. i have also inspected the filter and all holes are free of any buildup of lime or old coffee.

the Kawa when brewed after the dark spitting does taste a little harsh but not unplesant. a shot of water in teh cup works wonders for the drinkability. also the pressure valve is not blowing until the brew is close to being taken of the heat. hear the pffst and turn the hob off.


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## chimpsinties

Woah. You have the pressure release valve let off steam? I thought that was a kind of "Stop the thing blowing up" type thing. Not am every brew type thing. I've never had mine vent steam. In fact once it's pushed all the liquid through it should be a lot easier for the remaining steam to come through the coffee/filter afterwards.

How fine a grind are you using? Are you tamping?


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## Dazzler83

medium to course grind fill basket and polish the grind flat by using the side of my hand no tamping.

the valve releases very quickly on my model a pffst sound very brief as expected from a relief valve at these low pressures this noise happens just before the moka pot begins to pop when air is also drawn through the grind with little water remaining in the bottom. the pot is then removed from the heat and continues to finnish brewing. when i started using the pot i did squash as much coffee in the basket resulting in a thick bitter brew, i soon realised that there should not be this much coffee in the pot.


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## chimpsinties

Are you sure it's coming from the release valve on the side though. Think about it. Why would there be more pressure at this point you mention? If anything when there's no more water to press through the coffee the pressure would decrease inside as it's just hot air/steam to press through the coffee. I think your moka pot is a bit faulty if it does what you say. I'm pretty sure the release valve is designed to let off pressure if the steam pressure builds to to a dangerous point i.e. if there's nowhere for the water to go and it just builds up like a pressure cooker.

It could be that if you valve is faulty, you're not actually ever getting the right amount of pressure which means it's taking longer for the hot water to pass over the coffee and thus bitter coffee. On mine, it probably only takes 30 secs - 1 min from turning the heat one to having a full pot.

The sound of the pot "coughing" can sound a bit like steam being released which effectively it is I suppose but via the spout in the pot not the release valve.

Maybe I've just misunderstood what you've said.


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## Dazzler83

the valve is definatly opening. valve the little port near the top of the lower chamber water is filled to just below this point. a little ball bearing seated with a spring. maybe 10-15 sec after the valve opens the pot starts to 'cough' two different and distinct sounds. then the pot is removed from the heat. and the pot continues to brew. as soon as the noise stops i pour stir and serve. the valve will open at quite low pressures. could it be that my grind is still too fine?


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## chimpsinties

I'd question the health of the valve to be honest. I've used quite a few different moka pots and never ones have I seen the valve open. Like I said, I'm pretty sure it's a safety thing, not part of the normal brew. I stand to be corrected if anyone else knows different.


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## Dazzler83

i'll search out a replacement valve. and report back ;-)


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## Dazzler83

removed cleaned and re-fitted the relief valve with a new spring, slightly stiffer than the one i took out. now no more venting pre brew, and a much faster brew time too, less than 60 sec, from placing on the hob to a finished brew.


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## chimpsinties

And the results? are they better?


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## Dazzler83

three pots yesterday evening, a nice round full bodied cup from each. i have also reduced the grind size by half a turn, this has given me a nice foam from teh brewing spout with less spitting.


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## chimpsinties

Brilliant. It's so satisfying when you work out a better way to use the kit you've got to make even better coffee. Glad you got it sorted. Makes me want to go and use my moka pot now.


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## Dazzler83

) and the sound it makes when brewing is Exceptional.


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## mr kean bean

can anyone recommend a decent stainless steel non induction pot?


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## chimpsinties

This is the one I've got. It's very well made










http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stellar-Espresso-Maker-Stainless-Steel/dp/B002OYIC5U/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1351343623&sr=8-18


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## mr kean bean

thanks

I'm wondering whether to go for the 6 or 10 cup version but must bear in mind that the Porlex tall only grinds 30g. Would 30 grams be enough for the 10 cup version?


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## MWJB

No, 30g sounds about right for a 4 cup pot. I thought you could get a little more than 30g into a Porlex tall...hang on a minute...


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## MWJB

Approximately 35g.


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## mr kean bean

It's only 30 grams i believe

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/porlex-tall-hand-grinder/p401

I would have thought that would be enough for the 6 cup.


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## MWJB

It's 35g. I just weighed it.

7-8g per "cup" might be considered typical.


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## mr kean bean

I guess although the best way to be sure would be to fill up a container and see how much coffee you've used. Maybe chimpsinties can give it a go


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## chimpsinties

Bit late for a full moka pot now haha!

I'll give it a go in the morning. Now I'm looking forward to getting up. How sad am I?!


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## chimpsinties

Here goes. I was quite surprised actually, Maybe mine is the 4 cup after all. Saying that, if you only fill an espresso cup half full it will get you six cups. 15g ish. Could have fit a bit more in but not much.










Basically made 1 mug or 3 espresso cups full to the top.


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## mr kean bean

Thanks for that.

So you can fit 15 grams in the container without compressing it down?

Does the same coffee/water ratio apply with moka as with FP? (ie 6 grams to 100 ml water)

There is a good deal on ebay for the 10 cup deco model (£60 delivered)- but only if the container doesn't require more than 36 grams of coffee (the max the porlex does in one go, as I found out this morning- thanks MWJB)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330773895222?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

If not, then the 6 cup looks the best one for me.


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## chimpsinties

That's a good price for the 10cup but I'd still be tempted to go for the 6cup. As you can see it basically does a full mug, if you had to fill it everytime for it to work effectively then you might be making too much.

On the pic I'd lightly very tamped the coffee, just to make it neat.


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## mr kean bean

Cool. With my FP, I make around 600 ml at a time and transfer the excess to a heated ss flask for consumption over the next hour or so..


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## chimpsinties

That's a good idea.


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## mr kean bean

It's a shame you don't know whether you have the 4 or 6 cup model. Using your 15.7 gram figure, if your pot is a 4-pot model, then each of stellars 'cups' = 3.92 of coffee. 6-cup = 2.616. So the ten cup model should in theory hold about 39.2 or 26.16 grams depending on which it is...


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## chimpsinties

I suppose the only other measurement I can do is to measure the volume of water it holds and see if we can work it out from that. The reason I think it's a 6 cup is because if I pour it into an espresso cup, I can get 3 full cups out of it. I'd guess they mean for you to have about half an espresso cup, hence 6 cup model. Could be wrong.


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## mr kean bean

or visit Stellars factory and ask them to identify the model for you, haha









Anyhow, I'm going to upgrade to an OE Lido one day, which will grind enough for the 10 cup model I'm sure.

I prefer to only do one grinding session per day (being lazy), hence my concerns.


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## MWJB

This might not be an accepted standard, but I was under the impression a full demitasse (~60ml) was a "cup" in moka pot speak?

E.g....

1 Espresso Cup = 2.0 fl.oz / 60ml (max. boiler capacity)

3 Espresso Cup = 6.5 fl.oz / 200ml (max. boiler capacity)

6 Espresso Cup = 10 fl.oz / 300ml (max. boiler capacity)

9 Espresso Cup = 18.5 fl.oz / 550ml (max. boiler capacity)

12 Espresso Cup = 25 fl.oz / 775ml (max. boiler capacity)

Boiler capacity being usually more than the final output.


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## mr kean bean

So 10 cups would be just over 600ml. That would require around 36 grams of coffee, if you use the 6 grams coffee per 100ml water that is the general adviced for FP. Extrapolating from that, the porlex would provide just enough coffee (36 grams) for the 10 cup moka.

I've no idea though whether the ratio for FP would be the same as the Moka (being new to all this)









Edit: Just noticed that the OP uses 72 grams with his 'big moka'. That would seem a lot, even for the 12 cup.


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## Earlepap

With the exception of pre-ground Lavazza motor oil during university I know diddly-squat about moka, but I find the FP seems to favour a slighty higher dose - I find 70g/L works well as a starting point.


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## MWJB

Moka pot brews can be diluted to tast after brewing, but I think you are looking at more like 6-8g of grinds to each 50-60ml cup. Stronger than typical brewed coffee.

This would concur with the OP's 72g for 12 cups.


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## chimpsinties

Moka is meant to be loads stronger than FP.

btw, I just measured the volume of mine and it's 250ml or there abouts.


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## mr kean bean

MWJB said:


> Moka pot brews can be diluted to tast after brewing, but I think you are looking at more like 6-8g of grinds to each 50-60ml cup. Stronger than typical brewed coffee.
> 
> This would concur with the OP's 72g for 12 cups.


Okay, thanks for the clarification.









Just to be clear though, when you say to 'each 50-60 ml cup' are you talking about water you put in the moka pot before it turns into coffee?


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## MWJB

mr kean bean said:


> Just to be clear though, when you say to 'each 50-60 ml cup' are you talking about water you put in the moka pot before it turns into coffee?


Yes, remember these are "nominal" amounts, if your boiler takes 120ml, you won't get all that out in the top section, you might just get 100ml (effectively 2 cups)? If you kill the extraction early you might get less.

This is all confused by the fact that a "cup" tends to be what people have in their cupboards, rather than a standardised unit of measurement. My "2 cup" pot might do 2 good 2oz demitasse loads, 3 short demitasse loads, or one regular coffee cup, or half a standard mug.

I wouldn't get too hung up on volumes...if you can get 36g in your Porlex you are looking somewhere between 6 & 4 "cups"...assuming each pot size has a specific basket? Doesn't one of the larger Stellas feature a dual volume basket for half loads?


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## JamesA

Well this thread has been a very useful read and answers a lot of questions i came here to ask! I recently picked up a 9 cup pot and while i love the brew its producing, im using a lot of coffee! Going to invest in a 6 cup as well i think.

Now all i need as a decent grinder as well...

(Hi Chimps, im not stalking you from the other forum, honest







)


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## chimpsinties

JamesA said:


> (Hi Chimps, im not stalking you from the other forum, honest
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


I was just laughing to myself about this. I could swear I'm repeating myself. Haha! Got to be careful who I upset talking about coffee in the "other" forum


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## JamesA

chimpsinties said:


> I was just laughing to myself about this. I could swear I'm repeating myself. Haha! Got to be careful who I upset talking about coffee in the "other" forum


And I always thought religion and politics were controversial subjects, but its seems to be coffee and cigars









Point taken on the stainless steel pot, will look further. That link mr kean bean posted has the 6 cup version too, so thanks for that!


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## RobD

MWJB said:


> Doesn't one of the larger Stellas feature a dual volume basket for half loads?


i have a few Stellas and originally they all used to have a little screen in them for half loads that sits on a little lip in the basket, you could take out for a full basket, the only downside to these is that if you used to dose up to the half screen with to much, then the coffee would swell and push the little pip in the half screen into the main screen and leave a dent!! But I have found that if you use a full basket it comes out incredibly strong.


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## mr kean bean

MWJB, thanks. I'll settle on the six cup then...

Here's the stellar PDF's for what it's worth:

http://www.stellarcookware.co.uk/images/sites/stellar/ranges/stellar-art-deco-teaware/stellar-art-deco-teaware-care-and-use.pdf

http://www.stellarcookware.co.uk/images/sites/stellar/ranges/stellar-coffee/stellar-coffee-care-and-use.pdf


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## mr kean bean

.....double post...


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## RobD

Ooops!! thanks for that i have been using the tamping disk for smaller brews
















only for about the last 7 years!!! who says you dont learn something new every day.


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## mr kean bean

they also say to use finely-ground coffee but I see others are using a coarser grind here. What would be the recommended setting on the porlex?


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## MWJB

Around 9 clicks from lock up. I really don't recommend a fine, espresso type grind, it can lead to a rather muddy, overextracted cup.


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## mr kean bean

coolio....


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