# My dim noob questions thread.



## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

Apologies in advance for some of the noob questions.

I drink coffee at the mo made in a cafetiere and a ten year old blade grinder.

It's ok, but I find it wanting.

I've stopped drinking, so am turning my attention more to coffee for my "fix".

I like the idea of having to prepare a coffee and I like the idea of having to stand there to do it.

Quite frequently I start making a coffee and end up drinking stuff that's been brewing for half an hour, cos the kids have distracted me.

I only drink black coffee.

However, MLW likes lattes as does my daughter, so the ability to make those would be most welcome.

We bought a coffee pod machine. Hated it. I seem to dislike most coffee I've had from bean to cup machines in commercial environments.

I've tried a V60, but am evidently too thick to get it right.

Thought about an aeropress, but it's not as shiny as an espresso machine.

So I think I'm looking for a separate grinder and espresso machine?

But there's such a variety it's hard to know where to start or what a budget should be.

I want a better cup of coffee than currently. I also want to be able to be able to use a proper coffee machine and learn how to make excellent coffee. I want to develop a skill and have tasty beverages every day!

I looked at the Gaggia Classic yesterday. However it didn't look particularly well made, the buttons stuck and the chap burned himself whilst trying to show me how to get water out for an Americano.....

Please help me coffee peeps









T.I.A.


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Hi, I'm also a noob so might be able to offer some help as somebody who has just considered those same questions. I opted for an old gaggia classic from eBay (£130) and a Sage Smart Grinder Pro (£200 bought new).

The grinder seems to be fine but people will say get a better but second hand one which makes sense but for me whilst learning this is fine. I also have an aeropress which in conjunction with fresh beans ground myself is excellent.

My classoc is 15 years old and despite being filthy when I got it still works like a champ. I just need to learn how to make espresso properly!


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

GingerBen said:


> Hi, I'm also a noob so might be able to offer some help as somebody who has just considered those same questions. I opted for an old gaggia classic from eBay (£130) and a Sage Smart Grinder Pro (£200 bought new).
> 
> The grinder seems to be fine but people will say get a better but second hand one which makes sense but for me whilst learning this is fine. I also have an aeropress which in conjunction with fresh beans ground myself is excellent.
> 
> My classoc is 15 years old and despite being filthy when I got it still works like a champ. I just need to learn how to make espresso properly!


Hiya,

Can you get hot water out of it easily to make espresso up to Americano?

What's it like in use generally?

I like the look of that grinder. I quite like the sage range all round really...

My biggest problem I guess is figuring out how to get the best bang for my buck...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

groundhog said:


> My biggest problem I guess is figuring out how to get the best bang for my buck...


That's easily solved - check forum for sales' thread. Classics come up frequently and, being from a coffee focused forum, more likely to have been well cared for.

You will need a decent grinder. Sage isn't brilliant - you can do better.


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> You will need a decent grinder. Sage isn't brilliant - you can do better.


Any suggestions? Because the market is somewhat daunting...


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Have a look for a Sage DTP as a starter machine. They are pretty straight forward to use and paired with a sage grinder can make a tasty drink. You will most likely get the upgrade bug once you get into it, but as a start it's great for learning the basics 

There's actually a nearly new DTP in the for sale section.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

Espresso is probably the most finicky and difficult coffee drink to prepare, in fact probably one of the most finicky drinks to make in general. Your enthusiasm to want to make great espresso is promising, but it is tough at first to get a decent shot and to repeat these results consistently, you say you struggled with the v60, espresso is a different ball game. Not to put you off, its highly rewarding and easy once you master the basic techniques. The Gaggia is a very capable machine, you just have to source one thats been well looked after.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Couple of things. I agree with Rakesh that espresso can be quite frustrating at first. The irony is that the more expensive 'expert' machines such as dual boilers actually make it easier to get consistent good results whereas small single boiler 'starter' machines can be the most difficult (mainly due to temperature stability or lack of). I say this as someone who started with a Gaggia Classic and upgraded to a Rocket R58 db.

The Classic does make perfectly good espresso *once you've mastered it* which is one reason why it is popular. I also found it easier to steam milk at first, the weedy steamer gives you lots of time! It's better if you replace the steam wand with one from a Rancilio Silvia.

Point 2 is that getting hot water for americano out of a classic is a slow process (via the steam wand at below steam temp) - it doesn't have a separate water wand -mainly because the boiler is tiny and not enough to fill a cup! It has also been often said (by people in the know with espresso machine engineering knowledge) that even if your machine does have a hot water wand (like many dual boiler machines), it's better for the machine if you actually just boil the kettle rather than pull your filtered/bottled water through the service boiler by the cupful.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Where are you based?

You might find some basic training to be of immense value


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

Glenn said:


> Where are you based?
> 
> You might find some basic training to be of immense value


I'm in N/Yorks, just South of Selby - you're right, I probably would!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

groundhog said:


> I'm in N/Yorks, just South of Selby - you're right, I probably would!


Did you say you had a machine yet or we're still looking?


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Did you say you had a machine yet or we're still looking?


I'm just starting out looking at the moment. I'm trying to avoid my usual habit - start new hobby, buy before I know anything, waste a tonne of money, start again etc. lol.

Just been looking at lever machines, which could be very interesting indeed.

I'm leaning toward getting a decent grinder first and seeing what, if any, difference it makes to the French Press.

I do wonder - you don't have to "pair" the machines do you? I'm guessing that any grinder can pretty much be used with any espresso machine or other brew method?


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

I've just realised that it seems that peeps advise against using the same grinder for espresso and french press?

Is this right, or overly cautious?

As if it's right, then I probably shouldn't get a proper grinder until I have the espresso machine!

Is a hand grinder ok for french press? I may get one of those to tide me over....


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

groundhog said:


> I'm just starting out looking at the moment. I'm trying to avoid my usual habit - start new hobby, buy before I know anything, waste a tonne of money, start again etc. lol.
> 
> Just been looking at lever machines, which could be very interesting indeed.
> 
> ...


I think it's just personal preference and not specifically pairing one thing with another. I'm still learning myself and haven't upgraded too far yet, basic sage DTP with a mazzer SJ.

Lever machines do look cool and there are a few for sale at the mo which I've been tempted by, but if I went down that route I'd want a project I think to tinker with.

Do you know anyone with a machine you could use?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

groundhog said:


> I've just realised that it seems that peeps advise against using the same grinder for espresso and french press?
> 
> Is this right, or overly cautious?
> 
> ...


A hand grinder is perfect for French Press

Some grinders can do both and you can switch between with relative ease. However, there is always going to be an element of dialling back in

Separate grinders recommended


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

Glenn said:


> A hand grinder is perfect for French Press
> 
> Some grinders can do both and you can switch between with relative ease. However, there is always going to be an element of dialling back in
> 
> Separate grinders recommended


Ok - good stuff - any recommendations for a cheaper end hand grinder? ( I don't want to take too much away from the budget proper, whilst I dither. lol)


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> Do you know anyone with a machine you could use?


Nope - I don't get out of the house much at all really, so my friends are a handful now and mostly nowhere near where I live...

Hence my need for a decent coffee experience at home! lol


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

Just found this - saw elsewhere on the forum someone had suggested it was kept for French press:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Medium-Coffee-Grinder-Ceramic/dp/B001802PIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507368864&sr=8-1&keywords=hario+skerton

Worth it? I'm betting that it would be better than my current bladed grinder?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

groundhog said:


> Just found this - saw elsewhere on the forum someone had suggested it was kept for French press:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Medium-Coffee-Grinder-Ceramic/dp/B001802PIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507368864&sr=8-1&keywords=hario+skerton
> 
> Worth it? I'm betting that it would be better than my current bladed grinder?


The skerton will serve you fine for French press.


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## Silky729 (Sep 11, 2017)

groundhog said:


> Just found this - saw elsewhere on the forum someone had suggested it was kept for French press:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Medium-Coffee-Grinder-Ceramic/dp/B001802PIQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507368864&sr=8-1&keywords=hario+skerton
> 
> Worth it? I'm betting that it would be better than my current bladed grinder?


I had a Hario hand grinder at one point, for aeropress. My only issue with it was the metal that the handle pops onto was quite soft and rounded easily, if you're not careful. Haven't had the same issue with my Rhinowares one.


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

Cool - I will be gentle(ish) with it!

Have ordered an aeropress to go with it, whilst I piddle around trying to decide what I actually want lol


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Shameless plug but I have a decent Gaggia Classic for sale - check out the for sale section


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

groundhog said:


> Hiya,
> 
> Can you get hot water out of it easily to make espresso up to Americano?
> 
> ...


Welcome. Just use the kettle for topping up to an americano on a classic. Otherwise you'll be forever refilling the water tank.

Most of the time people don't recommend a single grinder for the both french press & espresso is the hassle & wastage involved changine the grind back & forth.


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## groundhog (Oct 5, 2017)

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