# Just got a Silvia, having an absolute mare



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Hi all.

I got a lot of great help over in the machines section whilst shopping for my first espresso setup. I've been happily making filter with a Baratza Encore and V60/Moccamaster for a few years and had left espresso drinks to the pros up until now.

I just got a Smart Grinder Pro and a new Silvia. I thought I'd watched enough YouTube tips and read enough that I wouldn't have a total disaster of a first few attempts but clearly that's not the case.

I was almost certain I'd seen someone on YouTube dose 17g into the stock basket, but trying that myself I couldn't even get the PF attached.

I then read on here that the included basket with a Silvia is a 14g. So I reduced the dose.

I'm using a distributor and the included metal tamper. I've also got an auto-scale that fits under the group.

Disclaimer here is that I'm using pretty bad beans to get used to the process. I didn't want to drain 1kg of decent, expensive coffee trying to make my first shots. It's a supermarket espresso roast.

First effort was at 12 on the grinder, and 14/28g in about 8 seconds. Tasted exactly as you'd imagine.

I then reduced the grinder to 10 and tamped a little firmer. This increased the overall time to 11 seconds. The shot had a decent crema and actually didn't taste horrendous, just immensely strong and the puck was like tar.

I then reduced the grind setting to 4, tamped really hard and I still only got to about 12 seconds for a 28g shot. Texture was good, taste was again very strong and bitter.

I've ordered an 18g VST ridgeless basket to get a more familiar ratio, but obviously there's something massively wrong elsewhere so any tips would be much appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I assume that it's a new SGP?????

It's not difficult to check them but do this very carefully and *only manual grinding so it stops when you pull the portafilter out.*

Empty hopper, run till burrs are completely empty.

Brush the burrs clean and what you can see without removing the centre burr and refit.

Set the grinder at say 10 and run it and notice the speed the grinder is running at - much faster than when it's grinding beans.

Slowly reduce the setting 1 at a time when it's running. If the speed drops a little stop immediately. If it happens at a setting of 1 that is probably perfect and there wont be any need to grind at that setting. Best not to anyway as the burrs are rubbing slightly.

Then go too coarse say 4 or 5 and then to setting 2 and make sure the motor speed doesn't change. When setting coarser on these it's always better to go too coarse and then fine to where you want to be. Much easier on these than when trying to set precisely using a Mazzer.

Speed didn't change. Adjust the out burr one step finer and repeat. If it still rubs at 2 put it back to where it was.

Still not slowing - repeat. If they do rub too much the speed will drop lower and lower rather quickly.

This applies to any of their grinders even the one on the Oracle. Numbers may differ.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> First effort was at 12 on the grinder, and 14/28g in about 8 seconds. Tasted exactly as you'd imagine.
> 
> I then reduced the grinder to 10 and tamped a little firmer. This increased the overall time to 11 seconds. The shot had a decent crema and actually didn't taste horrendous, just immensely strong and the puck was like tar.
> 
> I then reduced the grind setting to 4, tamped really hard and I still only got to about 12 seconds for a 28g shot. Texture was good, taste was again very strong and bitter.


 The fact that all these shots seem rather quick & are likely on the low side of extraction, suggests that you may not actually like coffee brewed at 1:2? If you grind fine enough to get the extraction up, the balance may be better, but the shots will also be stronger (maybe with less mouth feel though.

Don't change your tamp, it might slow the shot but you really want grind to do that.

Maybe try grind 3 and 42g out?

I would use beans that you will actually enjoy, the dial in procedure is the same but you stand more chance of enjoying the results.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Great, thanks so much. I didn't realise there was a process to get the SGP set up. It was a new one yes.

I must admit I've not tried 1:2 at 14g before, and usually enjoy beans from UK roasters like Dark Arts, Round Hill, Newground so perhaps the shorter shot with supermarket Italian roast is throwing me off.

I've just ordered a kilo of beans of a coffee I know, so I'll give that a try in the 18g basket and see how I get on.

I shall report back!

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Firstly - having a mare to begin with is normal, at least it was for me!

How do you feel about posting a video of the extraction up? Maybe even a close up of the ground coffee with something next to it for scale? Was the puck still gloopy on the lower grind setting? Maybe a photo of your tamped coffee too?

People who know your grinder can help more but rather frustratingly, both grinding too fine and too coarse can cause a fast shot which didn't help me when I first started very recently.


----------



## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

I get consistently good results with 15g in the stock v6 double basket. Keep going finer until you're in the right time window.

I've always bought fresh beans, but I've heard old beans are harder to dial in. Perhaps your attempt to use save money by using supermarket beans might actually be the cause of the issue.

Good luck, the Silvia is great when you get used to it.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks, good to hear there's other people relatively new to it!

I'll take some photos and post a video tomorrow, not sure the other half will be happy if I get the kitchen in the same state twice in one day.

Definitely looking forward to trying the good beans, but I'll keep going down the grind scale on the cheapo beans to see if things improve.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks, good to hear there's other people relatively new to it!
> 
> I'll take some photos and post a video tomorrow, not sure the other half will be happy if I get the kitchen in the same state twice in one day.
> 
> Definitely looking forward to trying the good beans, but I'll keep going down the grind scale on the cheapo beans to see if things improve.


 It would be typical to pull a perfect shot and not be able to drink it because it's too late in the day!

I remembered that this video had a good tip for getting in the ballpark for espresso grind. I didn't bother with the 5p to assess head space as I have 18g VST baskets and trust that 18g is correct, nor did I do the distribution technique as I have a tool for that, but there's definitely some useful info in there.

Have you been temp surfing?


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LostHighway said:


> Great, thanks so much. I didn't realise there was a process to get the SGP set up. It was a new one yes.


  Yes it is a new one as I seem to be the only one that came up with it. Fed up of people being told to just willy nilly adjust the outer burr usually saying it will grind finer as the numbers have changed. They wont, the numbers just change. On the other hand some may come out of the factory that haven't been calibrated correctly when they were built so may need adjusting.

I know it works as I have done it but do take care. There have been people who have wrecked the burrs by just adjusting them and not checking.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Ok so far more success today.

Ive taken some photos but apparently my phone camera is broken as it was staying blurry.

With the grinder at 4 I did 14g in, a much lighter tamp than yesterday (slightly poor polish due to not making sure the tamper was clean on the bottom) and got 36g out in 20 seconds. Tasted much 'better'... as in, as I would expect these beans to taste. Far less harshness and smoother.

I then did the exact same ratio and grinder setting, tamped slightly harder and got 36g out in 24 seconds. Again a slight improvement in taste.

Still waiting for the new beans and 18g basket to show up but excited to try them with today's successes!

However the puck was still super sloppy after extraction. Looked wet on top and gets stuck in the basket when knocking it out. I tried to get a photo but again, it's not very clear.

Progress!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> However the puck was still super sloppy after extraction. Looked wet on top and gets stuck in the basket when knocking it out. I tried to get a photo but again, it's not very clear.


 Good news! Don't worry what the puck looks like if the shots taste good. Liquid could be collecting because you are tamping hard enough to restrict permeability, slow the shots with grind setting not tamp force.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Ok I had another go this evening and even happier with the results.

Grind setting 3 and 15g with a slightly less firm tamp and I got 36g out in 24 seconds. Tastiest results yet. I was definitely way off with the grinder at 12 and a ridiculously heavy tamp.

I know you guys have said it's not a worry but the puck is still very wet and actually has a film of water on top of it. Does the Silvia have a 3-way solenoid? Is there a chance it's not working as it should?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> I know you guys have said it's not a worry but the puck is still very wet and actually has a film of water on top of it. Does the Silvia have a 3-way solenoid? Is there a chance it's not working as it should?


 Residual water can just be a byproduct of what the 3 way solenoid leaves behind. If the coffee is tasty, what can really be that wrong? You could try slightly higher doses/fill levels if it really irks you, just make sure you have some headroom over the puck. Or, leave the puck to drain before knocking it out.


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

newdent said:


> I remembered that this video had a good tip for getting in the ballpark for espresso grind. I didn't bother with the 5p to assess head space as I have 18g VST baskets and trust that 18g is correct, nor did I do the distribution technique as I have a tool for that, but there's definitely some useful info in there.


 The 18g VST and IMS baskets are just an estimate of their ideal fill height. Coffee varies in density so usually and 18g VST will be fine with 18g but sometimes you'll be better off with a little more or less, sometimes you'll need less because the puck gets disturbed by the shower screen at 18g hence the 5p test (most common with dark roasts). Also most distribution tools don't actually do anything for distribution unless they're the needle style or maybe the edo twister one.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Residual water can just be a byproduct of what the 3 way solenoid leaves behind. If the coffee is tasty, what can really be that wrong? You could try slightly higher doses/fill levels if it really irks you, just make sure you have some headroom over the puck. Or, leave the puck to drain before knocking it out.


 Thanks! I think I've watched so many videos that I'm getting hung up on process.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Rob1 said:


> The 18g VST and IMS baskets are just an estimate of their ideal fill height. Coffee varies in density so usually and 18g VST will be fine with 18g but sometimes you'll be better off with a little more or less, sometimes you'll need less because the puck gets disturbed by the shower screen at 18g hence the 5p test (most common with dark roasts). Also most distribution tools don't actually do anything for distribution unless they're the needle style or maybe the edo twister one.


 That's a fair point Rob, no harm chucking a 5p in to see what's what.

Distribution wise, I stir with a cocktail stick and then use my distribution tool for flattening before tamp. Have had good results but getting a small amount of spitting during the shot lately. Will have to investigate this!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The other point about the 5p test is that the puck expands when it gets wet. This can limit flow rates rather than purely the grinder setting and 5p clearance may not be enough. All basket weight capacities are nominal as well not just VST etc. They will generally hold more than their stated capacity but expansion effects can creep in.

I use a levelling tool, better name than distribution. I started to do it to help ensure the tamp was level. 2 slope type and only lightly and grinds still need to be rather level before using it. These do move grinds a bit rather than just compress them as the other type tends to do but I don't kid myself - they still compress the grinds unevenly. Just a better option. They can tamp to incredible levels.

I also use a calibrated tamper, 12kg/25lbs. Main reason is fixed 30sec shots and check weighing what comes out. I have tried a range of pressures but with the usual fluffy grinds that come out due to weighing in I stick with that. Taste comes into this as well. Stirring - maybe but most definitely not always.


----------



## Dusk (Feb 19, 2021)

I'm late to the party but just to say that using proper beans should make a big difference, I have a SGP and can be on a 15 setting for fresh beans compared to a 2-3 for supermarket beans.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Dusk said:


> I'm late to the party but just to say that using proper beans should make a big difference, I have a SGP and can be on a 15 setting for fresh beans compared to a 2-3 for supermarket beans.


 That's good to hear thanks! I'm still getting through the supermarket beans but 3 seems to be the best setting for a decent extraction.

I was concerned because that didn't leave much room to go finer if needed and a lot finer than the 12 setting the 'Espresso' section on the grinder. I appreciate that's just an arbitrary indicator but figured Sage must've put it there for some reason.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LostHighway said:


> However the puck was still super sloppy after extraction


 Tamping, fine grinding and fill height effects can all cause that or some mix of them. With no idea what the 1st one is hard to say really. Light tamping can result a finer grinder setting but when it comes to taste and the amount extracted from the beans etc things aren't that straight forwards.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> Ok I had another go this evening and even happier with the results.
> 
> Grind setting 3 and 15g with a slightly less firm tamp and I got 36g out in 24 seconds. Tastiest results yet. I was definitely way off with the grinder at 12 and a ridiculously heavy tamp.
> 
> I know you guys have said it's not a worry but the puck is still very wet and actually has a film of water on top of it. Does the Silvia have a 3-way solenoid? Is there a chance it's not working as it should?


 This still seems a bit fast, have you managed any slower shots? Obviously taste is the ultimate test but if you're still not sure how it should taste, I found this video helpful on that front:


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks for the further replies. I watched that guy's video on milk steaming and it was one of the best I'd seen! Helped a lot.

Still haven't got the 18g basket but I'm onto decent beans. I'm getting a pretty consistent extraction at 15g, and trying to tamp consistently.

Im enjoying the process for sure.

I have another question&#8230;

What kind of wizardry is required to produce two milk drinks with a Silvia and still have them fairly hot?

I've somehow managed to steam milk better than I'd expected but making two espresso first, the steam takes an age to heat up, and doing milk first means it's a challenge to keep the milk from separating.

I'm guessing shots first, milk second is the right order with a single boiler machine?


----------



## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

I do both shots first in pre-warmed cups, then steam enough milk for both. I tend to do flat whites though so it's easy to steam for two in one batch.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

BenH said:


> I do both shots first in pre-warmed cups, then steam enough milk for both. I tend to do flat whites though so it's easy to steam for two in one batch.


 Ah that's a good idea thanks, I also only do flat whites so not huge amounts of milk.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Another silly question&#8230;

How do people seem to be able to get the jug under the wand in most positions on the Silvia?

I'm using a 400ml jug but with any more than about 100-150ml milk in it if I raise the jug enough to clear the drip tray, especially with the want pulled directly toward me, the tip is too deep in the milk.

Yet I see plenty of people on YouTube steam in various positions without problem.


----------



## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> Another silly question&#8230;
> 
> How do people seem to be able to get the jug under the wand in most positions on the Silvia?
> 
> ...


 I have never had any problem, don't quite understand you, could you please put some photos ? With the steam wand to the right there is absolutely no problem in fitting a milk jug of 400ml, why don't you try to do it as in the videos?


----------



## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

I steam to the right of the machine, so the jug is over the worktop rather than the drip tray. That always gives enough room to steam well, although I sometimes spill a bit after if the jug is too full.


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Just an opinion from someone 5 months in to my espresso making.

Practice. Either by making 2-3 shots a day, and just focusing on one thing at a time, I'm getting consistent shots. During my learning process I'd follow 'the same steps' and it could taste different or amazing, but it's the same steps.

I'm more and more consistent now. Try to change 1 thing at a time, settle on that, then change the next variable. Meaning tamp the same, same weight, same temp, but change the grind only.

Good luck and stay positive 👍 you got it!


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks, those are great tips and it makes perfect sense.

It's been a far more enjoyable learning curve with the non-supermarket beans.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes, shots first. If you're heating the milk to 65 deg, then even if the shots have cooled slightly, then you should still end up with a hot drink. After switching to steam, it takes no more than 30s to be ready and then not very long to steam two lattes worth of milk. Don't be shy, open the valve all the way! It's just a workflow thing, start to pay attention to how long it takes for steam to be ready after your last shot (many start steaming just before the light goes out so it heats throughout the steaming process) and have your milk out ready, etc. You'll be surprised how many seconds you can shave off my getting everything organised, incl. the way you make your shots.

Believe it or not, ideal jug size is relative to the amount of milk you require and the amount you stretch your milk depends on the drink you're making, check the internet. 100ml in a 400ml jug to not enough, 150ml probably just OK - that's probably why you can't reach with the wand. I also steam off to the side of the machine. I don't think there's much value in trying to steam on the drip tray, you'll have to lower the jug slightly as the milk stretches but you won't be able to do that with the tray in the way.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks!

Yeah even just prepping as much as I can before the first shot makes it all feel quicker&#8230; getting the cups ready, the jug, having the scales out and tared.

I don't think I've been using enough milk&#8230; I have a bunch of Acme tulips/flat white cups I picked up when Liberty were randomly clearing them out so using the flat white cups and assuming a 36ish ml shot then I'm guessing something like 90ml milk per drink is about right?


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Yeah even just prepping as much as I can before the first shot makes it all feel quicker&#8230; getting the cups ready, the jug, having the scales out and tared.
> 
> I don't think I've been using enough milk&#8230; I have a bunch of Acme tulips/flat white cups I picked up when Liberty were randomly clearing them out so using the flat white cups and assuming a 36ish ml shot then I'm guessing something like 90ml milk per drink is about right?


 Easiest way to know. When filling the jug it should hit the first part of the spout.the v part. I don't measure milk, I pour until I hit the v 😁


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Ok so I managed to get some photos. On the plus side this is the best tasting results so far. Has a sweetness and fruity acidity I'd not picked up before.

However it's very quick again. The beans were roasted on Apr 24th, I'm getting 20 seconds doing 16g in 36g out and the grinder is set to 2! I can't go much finer!

I'm not sure of the terminology but there are also these dark spots in the crema.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Beans should be OK from an age perspective. Which beans are they? I've had some lighter roasts that however hard I try, I just can't seem to pull a good shot on the silvia. It seems like the roasts on the darker side give the best results. Others could probably explain why this is?! Are you putting 16g into the stock 14g basket? 15g was a push for me. Not that it's a problem but is there a reason you're going for a 1:2.25 ratio? I can't say I've paid attention to dark spots on crema but would be interested to hear if it's normal.

I don't know your grinder and how close your burrs are to touching but the operating range for espresso grind was very narrow on my two grinders, so what may not seem like a lot to play with could be enough. Saying that, ideally you want a stepless grinder for espresso or have a basket that allows you to up/down dose a bit to make up for lack of grind adjustment. It's hard to really see the grind in your photo, it look like it could be on the fine side but hard to say. Did you try squeezing in your palm and assessing the grind that way?

I think a video of the shot would be helpful. That way, we could see any sudden changes in flow or colour which could indicate things like channelling happening.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks. It's a Brazilian coffee from a roaster called 'James Gourmet Coffee'. It's available by the kilo so a good way of practicing on decent coffee without doing so on £12 for 225g level of pricing.

A stepless grinder is something I'll look to upgrade to somewhere down the line.

I am using the stock 14g basket.

16g seems to fit quite comfortably at this grind setting and the puck is drier than before.

Here's a video, I had to compress it to upload but hopefully it's useful!

View attachment IMG_9781.mp4


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Ah, firstly, you're starting your timing from first drop and I think most count from when you start the extraction. I know some people count from first drop if they're doing really long pre-infusions. That makes it a 27s shot which should be long enough in theory! It's quite hard to see with that compression, looks a tad thin but I've only been pulling 1:1 shots lately, so maybe my eye is off. Let's see if anyone else can comment! It certainly doesn't look a million miles off, nice one!

Did 16g dose pass the 5p test?


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks!

Ah ok that makes sense, I think this scale has a few different auto-start settings but I'll start the timer as soon as I hit the button.

It does pass the 5p test, it seems pretty much spot on, I recalibrated the scales just to make sure it was accurately weighing 16g.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Ah ok that makes sense, I think this scale has a few different auto-start settings but I'll start the timer as soon as I hit the button.
> 
> It does pass the 5p test, it seems pretty much spot on, I recalibrated the scales just to make sure it was accurately weighing 16g.


 Well I guess if it passes the 5p test you're all good! Thinking about it, I had an awful grinder when I was using the stock basket, probably why I couldn't fit much in...

I had a look at my espresso today and mine had some dark spots too. I think that when the coffee is coming through the basket, it comes out with dark streaks (often called tiger stripes) and I think this is what causes the dark spots.

Also, I realised that I probably get more crema than you because I use a naked portafilter, think the spouted section interferes with it. Not the end of the world, it's quite bitter anyway.

I guess all you have to do is make small adjustments to get the taste you want now. Sounds like you're nearly there, whoop!


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks so much.

I'm getting relatively consistent results now which is great, also better flavour than I thought I'd get this early on.

One question&#8230; do I need to prime the Silvia every time I switch it on? I'm not sure I fully understand what 'priming' is but I'm guessing it's not heating the boiler without water in it. Today though I went to prime it as per the setup guide and water came out the steam wand immediately, so presumably the boiler still had water in from yesterday?

I'm making about 5 coffees a day (4 for morning/afternoon for me and my partner, 1 in the evening) and beyond the first use, I've just been switching it on, waiting for it to heat up and pulling a shot.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I know that when you're using the brew or hot water buttons, the pump runs to force cold water into the boiler from the refillable tank and create the pressure required to force hot water out of the boiler through the group or steam wand (this is why water temp in the boiler drops when you use hot water). This is to stop you running the boiler dry and damaging the heating elements. I suppose that when you're using the steam wand to steam, there's no pumping required as steam pressure forces the steam out the top of the boiler and there's a chance (albeit very low I assume?) that you could run the boiler dry, which is why I guess they ask you to run water through the wand after? I watched a video that said it's good practice to run water through the steam wand after steaming to cool the boiler down, so I always do after steaming but maybe the real reason is to make sure the boiler is topped up with water? I'm not sure how essential this is as I used mine for a month before starting to do this, maybe it's not even necessary.

Anyway, I've never paid any attention to this and never had a problem, so just did some research out of curiosity, though I already knew that priming is relating to getting air out of the system when using pumps. I think the proper priming is just something you do if you buy from new or have had the boiler drained for some reason. Day to day, I just switch on and use it. Often, there's a bit of air in the system on first use, so I press the brew button until water starts to come out of the group and then I'm ready to brew. I temperature surf with my rancilio, which is something you might want to google at some points. Just a method of keeping your brew temperature consistent. There's videos on youtube.


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks so much.
> 
> I'm getting relatively consistent results now which is great, also better flavour than I thought I'd get this early on.
> 
> ...


 Just run a short burst of water through the group after last coffee / steaming, this refills the boiler and helps clean the group.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks both. I'd been running a shot or so through the group to clean it a bit already so that's good to know.

The VST basket arrived. I ordered ridgeless not knowing what it meant, I now know and have ordered a ridged one&#8230;

However! I tried an 18/36 shot with it and all went well. Looking forward to trying that ratio with milk!


----------



## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks for the further replies. I watched that guy's video on milk steaming and it was one of the best I'd seen! Helped a lot.
> 
> Still haven't got the 18g basket but I'm onto decent beans. I'm getting a pretty consistent extraction at 15g, and trying to tamp consistently.
> 
> ...


 Always, always, first the coffee and then steaming the milk with a SB Silvia.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

So after getting pretty consistently decent results with the standard Silvia basket, I'm getting fast shots with the 18g VST.

18g/36g in about 20 seconds. I'm at setting 2 on the grinder (setting 3 with the 15g basket would yield 36g in about 30-35 seconds)

Is my only option to go finer on the grind or should I increase tamping pressure?


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> So after getting pretty consistently decent results with the standard Silvia basket, I'm getting fast shots with the 18g VST.
> 
> 18g/36g in about 20 seconds. I'm at setting 2 on the grinder (setting 3 with the 15g basket would yield 36g in about 30-35 seconds)
> 
> Is my only option to go finer on the grind or should I increase tamping pressure?


 Grind. It's pretty common they say vst require a finer grind


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Tinkstar said:


> Grind. It's pretty common they say vst require a finer grind


 Ok thanks.

I'm thinking I probably should've got a different grinder. One of the issues with the SGP I've found is that because it's stepped and the adjustment gets tight at the low settings, it's actually different depending if you adjust up from say 2 to 3, than if you go down from 4 to 3. It feels like there's quite a bit of play in each setting.

I chose the SGP based on the idea I could quickly grind timed doses for filter and espresso interchangeably but in practice I still use the Baratza I have for filter since I'll often be using different beans.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> So after getting pretty consistently decent results with the standard Silvia basket, I'm getting fast shots with the 18g VST.
> 
> 18g/36g in about 20 seconds. I'm at setting 2 on the grinder (setting 3 with the 15g basket would yield 36g in about 30-35 seconds)
> 
> Is my only option to go finer on the grind or should I increase tamping pressure?


 Go finer and/or see how long it takes to get 54g out.

You're not saying much about the flavour balance?


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

MWJB said:


> Go finer and/or see how long it takes to get 54g out.
> 
> You're not saying much about the flavour balance?


 Quite honestly I'm not sure if I just frequent bad coffee shops or if my palate lacks refinement but even when the extraction is quick the shot tastes better to me than some I pay for.

I'm not sure what I was expecting but I'm already getting results better than I'd expected but if I was to critique them I'd say they're definitely on the sweeter side rather than strong. I haven't had an unpleasant one since the first few days when I started this thread.

I suppose with that in mind I probably shouldn't get hung up on the numbers.

However, I would say that with milk I'd probably like it slightly stronger as I'm losing a lot of the flavour even with flat white amounts of milk.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> However, I would say that with milk I'd probably like it slightly stronger as I'm losing a lot of the flavour even with flat white amounts of milk.


 OK, so keep going finer, as you extract more at 36g out the strength will come up a little, after that if the taste is good but lost in milk, try a little less milk.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Ok will do, thanks.

Slightly off-topic question&#8230; I'm thinking about returning the SGP and going for a better grinder. I'm not super happy with how the stepped adjustment works at low settings and the fact I'm having to go down to 2 to get decent results.

I was reluctant at first to spend more since I didn't know if I'd enjoy actually making espresso at home but I very much do.

Given that for £100-150 more I could get a far superior grinder, I had two in mind;

New Mazzer Mini or used Super Jolly. Obviously the latter is better, but I like the idea of a warranty on buying new and the dimensions of the Mini are preferable.

Is the Mini a decent option and can the doserless funnel be added later if I wanted to add it? I appreciate there are other options like the Vario but admittedly some of the motivation is just the tank-like build of the Mazzers and the fact I've pined over having one for many years of the 'MM' staring me in the face while waiting at coffee counters.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Update&#8230; too late. I found a new MM for £129 more than I paid for the Smart Grinder so I bought it and the SGP is still in the returns window 😬.

It's the grinder I've wanted for years, and I should've probably just bought it initially. Buy once, cry once!


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I have the Sj and its a beast lol. Glad you found something. I did the same 🤣

Now I'm looking at niche 🤦‍♂️ I will not buy one, I will not buy one 🤣 but if I sell both grinders I have then its only £200 🤦‍♂️


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Haha thanks.

It's a slippery slope&#8230;

I ride old Harleys and play guitar&#8230; the last thing I need is another expensive hobby!

As you say though, when you resell your equipment it's "only another&#8230;"!


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> Update&#8230; too late. I found a new MM for £129 more than I paid for the Smart Grinder so I bought it and the SGP is still in the returns window 😬.
> 
> It's the grinder I've wanted for years, and I should've probably just bought it initially. Buy once, cry once!


 You either had an expensive SGP or you've found a proper bargain for a MM!

You'll definitely appreciate the stepless adjustment. I wanted to suggest sacking off the sgp earlier in the thread but didn't want to cause a scene, ha.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LostHighway said:


> It's the grinder I've wanted for years, and I should've probably just bought it initially. Buy once, cry once!


 That's the one I moved to from an SGP.  Tell you something - in some ways it's swings and roundabouts. One thing that can help with it is a longer adjustment arm that some one on here produces. Not sure but think it's @coffeechap

It is a good solid grinder though. The portafilter rest is brilliant. I needed to add a couple of small rubber stick on things to position it correctly every time. It then always produced a nice even central heap of grinds making prep much easier  wont help stirrers or grind cup users though.

Main problem is very exact tuning and really tiny adjustments - going one way there is a small amount of back play - really small. Also best to mark the burr carrier some way so that it's always put back in the same way round. Indelible pen etc.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks all, looking forward to getting it set up.

Regarding the price, I went back and checked and the £329 was ex-VAT so about £390 all in, a shade under £200 more than the SGP but hopefully a machine to last me many years.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> Thanks all, looking forward to getting it set up.
> 
> Regarding the price, I went back and checked and the £329 was ex-VAT so about £390 all in, a shade under £200 more than the SGP but hopefully a machine to last me many years.


 Ah, that makes more sense!

You are in the territory of the G-IOTA at that price; https://homebarista.be/en/shop/products/probarista-koffiemolen-g-iota-zwart and not a million miles off of the niche either...

Having had a Mazzer SJ briefly, they are messy with the doser. To decently mod them for single dose it's approx £100 with the daniel wong kit https://home-doserless.com/product/mazzer-mini-doserless-mod/ , then you could have bought a niche. All that and the MM has the smaller 58mm burrs. I think the MM is a very capable grinder but if your intention is to single dose with it eventually, you might be better off skipping out on the phase of 'getting by', as you have done with your SGP.

FWIW I really dislike the aesthetics of the niche but the more I ponder on it, the more I wonder if there's a better grinder for performing well on both pour over AND espresso anywhere close in that price bracket and there isn't really. I guess there really isn't smoke without fire! The MM (and the same with my Eureka Mignon) need to be dedicated to espresso really, there's not a lot of scope for changing back and forth between grind settings for different beans/brew methods or if there is, I've not managed it yet!


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It makes a better grinder than the G-iota when weighing in providing it's a Mazzer funnel type arrangement which is also better than the DW kit but a brush is needed. It's a pity that only the electronic ones come with the funnel or an ebay item needs to be modified which is still a little lacking compared with Mazzer's own. It will match Niche for retention for the sake of a little time and effort and a bit of weight on the beans more or less stops popcorning. Total grind time with the effort is still likely to often be shorter than the G-Iota but the brush will be needed to keep "retention" very low.

However some will argue that better drinks will be made used as intended hopper on along with the problems that causes.  I wouldn't rule that out personally so as often the case with grinders convenience comes into it.

Spouts and weighing in don't go together that well - it's why on FlatMax etc they are very easily removable. Niche manages to get around the problems they can cause even on tricky beans. Niche and the SGP are designed for repeat settings. Commercial grinders generally aren't. They generally aren't that easy to set either.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

ajohn said:


> It makes a better grinder than the G-iota when weighing in providing it's a Mazzer funnel type arrangement


 Could you elaborate on this please John? Certainly, on paper you'd imagine the g-iota, with the 64mm burrs would perform a bit better, basically like an SJ. Many people seem to have gone through the trouble of replacing the MM upper burr carrier to take the SJ burrs and you'd imagine they did that for a reason. I have no idea, just interested.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

I must admit there's a bit of a personal aesthetic appeal of the Mazzer. I remember each morning when I lived in London I'd see them lined up on the counter at Goswell Road Coffee probably 10 years ago and always wanted one. I appreciate it may have it's flaws for the money.

I think I'm going to just dose espresso in it, and fill the hopper. The original plan was to single dose filter and espresso but as you've said, not ideal.

Does Mazzer sell a doserless funnel that fits to the Mini without drilling etc?


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> I must admit there's a bit of a personal aesthetic appeal of the Mazzer.


 It's as good a reason as any! They are nice looking and built like tanks - they really are designed for an industrial setting and it shows. The doser is meant to be constantly filled and left on one appropriate grind setting for all eternity, very low maintenance as you'd want in a cafe. You can tell they don't envision anyone changing the grind settings very much by how awful they are to adjust!!

I have no issues with retention from a cost/waste perspective as if you do the maths it's very negligible, it was more just that there were so many places for tiny bits of coffee to get stuck in the doser and who wants stale coffee hanging around to potentially getting into the next days batch? A funnel or Daniel Wong kit is going to be essential in my view. For the SJ (and presumably the MM too), you can buy pre-made funnels but you also need a backplate if removing the doser, it was over £100 for these parts.

Best of luck with it, there's loads of info out there on them and there's a dedicated section on these forums for Mazzer grinders to get specific help.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

newdent said:


> Could you elaborate on this please John? Certainly, on paper you'd imagine the g-iota, with the 64mm burrs would perform a bit better, basically like an SJ. Many people seem to have gone through the trouble of replacing the MM upper burr carrier to take the SJ burrs and you'd imagine they did that for a reason. I have no idea, just interested.


 None of the things I have posted in the Solo thread. The but is brushing grinds out of the grinds chamber exit and if the  last ~0.1g is wanted remove weight in my case, brush around burrs, replace weight spin up briefly and brush the exit again. My son once said dad 13.9g came out so I told him to do the 2nd brush routine  14g as it should be then.

Burr carrier - not heard of that. One MM uses a smaller burr. The one I have is 64mm and as far as I know are the same size as the SJ. I have some SJ burrs but never fitted them to it. They give a higher grinding rate than the stock MM burrs. Better - pass. A problem with coffee stuff. All sorts are claimed but people use different beans and work in different ways. Grinders can changed taste but so can tuning.



LostHighway said:


> Does Mazzer sell a doserless funnel that fits to the Mini without drilling etc?


 Mazzer Mini parts can be bought. They tend to be expensive. For weighing in I remove the deflector plate and the mesh anti static grid. I don't think this needs a cover but as mine is the electronic version can't be 100% sure but very very much doubt it.

The Mini handled my 2nd crack monsooned without any problem. At the time the bean was somewhat less oily than the one I use now but still shiny with it. The SGP couldn't weigh those in. Curiously it was ok with the hopper on.

The funnel may also need a brush to get rather small amounts out. It's in the hand though so not a significant problem and it may remain clean. Usually people modify ebay octopus funnels and they too can work well, usually on SJ's. Perhaps the internal polish on the Mazzer part is better. All Mazzer funnels appear to be identical. The electronics boards are as they are set to the required model when powered up for the first time.

I have seen another way of using them hopper on. Disk of mesh in the funnel. Clumps don't fall through but can be brushed through. Dosers tend to not produce clumps but I have never tried one for long. They don't suffer from spout problems where beans stick insided due to the distance the grinds are thrown. Funnel the same. There is usually 30~40g centrifugal force chucking the grinds out.

Solo is looking a bit better now. 4 shots. fixed 30sec shot and a couple of grams variation in output. One type of bean so far but it indicates a more consistent grinds with a single rubber flap but grinds are still building up inside.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Great, thanks so much.

I'm sure I can figure this out when it arrives but if the doser is designed to be filled regularly, presumably the amount dosed using the lever can be adjusted?

Is it possible to set it to dose a predetermined amount with x number of lever pulls? I always weigh my PF if I'm just making one coffee but if I'm doing two or three, especially with a single group/boiler machine in a hurry to make shots before they cool it would be a bonus if I can just pull the lever and know the dose is relatively close to the desired weight.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LostHighway said:


> Is it possible to set it to dose a predetermined amount with x number of lever pulls?


 Pass - I've never tried using one like that but cafes do. I don't know what the limits are.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

I just did a bit of Googling, seems like it is possible to set up to 8g dose per pull but it requires the doser to be relatively full to enable gravity to help with the way the doser works.

Which makes sense as you say in a cafe environment where the doser would be constantly refilled.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

If it's a bog standard mechanical doser then it'll give a standard dose per pull but as you say, with 1-2 doses inside, you'll get inconsistent doses as the chambers are unlikely to be filled fully. Also, if the doser is like the SJ, coffee will have been propelled into inconvenient places, which will need to be brushed into the doser compartments (don't know what else to call them). It's a faff.

Again, if anything like the SJ, the bottom of the vanes that sweep the grounds around the doser will have gaps under them which will leave a few grams stuck in the doser. Search the forum for the 'clean sweep mod' for details on how to partially resolve. Not a huge deal on a cafe environment as it's a few grams out of an entire doser full of coffee but a pain to get rid of when dosing for 1 or 2 people. If you think you'll do it eventually, then there's no point suffering with the doser, just take the plunge and get a funnel asap. If there's a micro switch on the top of the doser, then you'll have to rewire the grinder to ignore it when swapping to a funnel. It's straightforward enough to do and details on the forum if you search for it. I can't confirm as I had an SJ not a MM but would assume it would have a micro switch.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Thinking about it, if you plan to use it with the hopper full, not sure how you'll be able to judge your doses. Will yours have a timer function?


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

I got the timer one, but yes I see your point.

I'll just run it cafe style and make 100 espressos a day.

Jokes aside I might just see how much I need in the doser to actually work an accurate dose with the lever.

Failing that it looks like I'm buying the funnel kit!

I just watched a vid on adding the Mazzer funnel and it looks incredibly straightforward. Either that or the James Wong kit mentioned above. I don't have an endless supply of money but I don't mind adding a little extra if it'll get me a machine that will last me years.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Yes, exactly. It's a sore point for me because I held out on buying something for a year and then finally caved and bought it anyway and can't help but be bitter about the year I spent suffering without it. Lesson learnt!! I'm quite tight fisted, so trying to make more long-sighted decisions from now on!

Anyway, workflow aside, at least you're going to have coffee ground very well, very soon! If you search the forum, someone will tell you a guesstimate number of notches to move from burrs touching for when you set it up. Always nice to have a ballpark so you don't waste loads of coffee. Enjoy!


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Thanks yeah I hear you. Not to make this thread my life story but I was in a pretty gnarly non-fault motorcycle crash a couple of years ago. A decent coffee setup doesn't really make up for the long-term injuries I have but afterwards I said I'd set aside a little treat budget to get myself a nice machine and grinder so I'd rather have something that will last a long time.

I'll report back once it arrives.

Thanks again for all the advice.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Ok got it set up and incredibly impressed straight away. The factory recommended setting on the sticker was spot-on (as I suppose it's meant to be).

Even my partner noticed a taste improvement when she tried the espresso. She's into coffee but hugely sceptical about this new mass of equipment suddenly taking over the kitchen.

Dosing is certainly a bit of a game but as expected. One method that seems to be fairly quick and foolproof is if I turn the timer to just a click past the point the grinder kicks in, that drops around 18-20g into the doser. I'll then lever the doser into the basket and I managed to get within 3/4 gram either side of 18 from a few tries. I'll still weigh out the doses if I'm just making one, but if I'm doing two or three I'm happy enough with those averages to just wing it.

Overall, really pleased and it's nice to have a grinder that now feels as solid (if not more so!) than the Silvia.

One question&#8230; there were these plastic things in the box, marked in mm, no idea what they are&#8230; I also couldn't find a reference to them in the manual?


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> Ok got it set up and incredibly impressed straight away. The factory recommended setting on the sticker was spot-on (as I suppose it's meant to be).
> 
> Even my partner noticed a taste improvement when she tried the espresso. She's into coffee but hugely sceptical about this new mass of equipment suddenly taking over the kitchen.
> 
> ...


 No clue what these are, dissapointed tho, no new pictures of the setup 🤣


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Tinkstar said:


> No clue what these are, dissapointed tho, no new pictures of the setup 🤣


 Haha I'm still waiting for my phone to be repaired after the issues mentioned when trying to take video of the shot.

Here's a quick one!


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Looking good!

Have you worked out your 'chirping point' yet (location on the ring where the burrs touch, grinder must be running to do this)? Won't go into the back story but I'm using a MM at the moment and I had to move across about 7 notches from chirping, whereas it was more like 13 for my SJ. Doesn't really make a difference, just intrigued. You certainly won't want to move whatever you've got it set to if it's working well though!

First thing I did to this MM was put some cardboard into the bottom of the sweeper vanes though. Took 5 mins and sweeps almost everything out the bottom of the doser!


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

newdent said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Have you worked out your 'chirping point' yet (location on the ring where the burrs touch, grinder must be running to do this)? Won't go into the back story but I'm using a MM at the moment and I had to move across about 7 notches from chirping, whereas it was more like 13 for my SJ. Doesn't really make a difference, just intrigued. You certainly won't want to move whatever you've got it set to if it's working well though!
> 
> ...


 Pictures of cardboard? Nice to know others are so close but yet so far away, when you have numbers and full circles it feels crazy to be this close 🤣


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> Haha I'm still waiting for my phone to be repaired after the issues mentioned when trying to take video of the shot.
> 
> Here's a quick one!
> 
> View attachment 57251


 The left side looks very nice, the MM is a lot more house hold than the sj 🤣


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Tinkstar said:


> Pictures of cardboard? Nice to know others are so close but yet so far away, when you have numbers and full circles it feels crazy to be this close 🤣


 Are you using the doser Tinkster?

I've put cardboard where the person in this thread has put the spongy stuff, under the sweeper vanes. I guess sponge would work better... 🤔

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/16263-mazzer-doser-sweeper-mod/?do=embed


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Great tips on the sweeper mod thanks!

Got a new coffee in the hopper today and I'm so impressed. It's a Caravan Colombian called 'Risaralda'.

I had to go a few hairs finer on the grind but getting 18g-38g in about 32 seconds and it tastes really good. Seeing improvements each day which is great.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

I made a discovery today&#8230;

My shots, whilst tasty, had been tasting a little sour. Especially with milk. (I use Oatly Barista so I don't think it's the milk&#8230

I'd been heating the machine for as long as it took for the boiler light to go out&#8230; what an error! Turns out I was making shots at 60 Celsius!

On another note&#8230; what am I doing wrong to make the milk fly everywhere when first activating the steam? I'm getting a nice kissing sound and some relatively reasonable microfoam by the end of steaming but every single time I go to steam, the milk immediately expands and flows out the pitcher and I have to fight to get it back under control.

I'm using a 400ml pitcher with about 160ml of milk, which sits about .5cm below the bottom of the spout base.

Where should the nozzle be to avoid the above? Just under the surface fully submerged? Very slightly un-submerged? And should I ease into the steam or just crack it up? I tend to just open it right up.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> I'd been heating the machine for as long as it took for the boiler light to go out&#8230; what an error! Turns out I was making shots at 60 Celsius!


 I'd be bit surprised if your shots were "tasty/a little sour" if brewed at 60c. How did you measure the temp?


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

MWJB said:


> I'd be bit surprised if your shots were "tasty/a little sour" if brewed at 60c. How did you measure the temp?


 Just with one of those thermometers that clips to a milk jug. I measured a shot after extraction in the warmed cup as I'd drink it before. I appreciate there's variables that cool it a bit once it's out of the group so it was probably higher than 60.

Measuring in the same way with the machine on for 15 mins or so and I got 80 in the cup.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> Just with one of those thermometers that clips to a milk jug. I measured a shot after extraction in the warmed cup as I'd drink it before. I appreciate there's variables that cool it a bit once it's out of the group so it was probably higher than 60.
> 
> Measuring in the same way with the machine on for 15 mins or so and I got 80 in the cup.


 OK, temp in the cup will be way lower than brew water temp, it's quite normal for espresso to be 60-70c in the cup. If the 80c cups lose the sourness, then that's great, but cups cooler than that won't necessarily be sour. Maybe a little finer on the grind, or a little more mass in the cup might work too?


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Right on, thanks. As espresso, I wasn't really noticing it unpleasant, but with milk it just tasted sour. The reason I think it's down to technique over the beans (beyond the obvious reason I'm literally one week into making espresso at home&#8230 is that the precious beans I was using came out the same way.

Hard to describe but it's like the tasting notes aren't really evident with milk. That could totally be down to my milk technique also.

We just moved house but once things are all set up and unpacked properly I'll get the camera up on a tripod and get a video of the entire process and hopefully it'll be easier to spot where I'm going wrong.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

LostHighway said:


> Right on, thanks. As espresso, I wasn't really noticing it unpleasant, but with milk it just tasted sour. The reason I think it's down to technique over the beans (beyond the obvious reason I'm literally one week into making espresso at home&#8230 is that the precious beans I was using came out the same way.


 Sure, it's less likely to be the beans if roasted appropriately for your target. So long as the temp is ball-park & not consistently producing the same fault at various grind settings, you'll get a more marked & consistent change with grind setting and/or ratio.

Perhaps the neat espresso is more intense & covering the fault somewhat, as it can be harder to identify/breakdown attributes in very strong shots.

A video might show some very basic problems in prep (but these would also be evident in the shots, so I doubt you're very far off if you're getting some tasty), but really keeping a note of weights, times, how much you like the shots & maybe a quick comment on what might be wrong with it can be done every time you make a shot. It's easier to look back over 10 shot's scores, than to make 10 close to identical videos


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

I'm awaiting new coffee so haven't been making much the last couple of days. Had an absolute shocker and wasted a load of coffee, posting this for laughs&#8230;

The Mazzer wasn't grinding anything, couldn't work out why, the motor was running fine, hopper had beans in. I thought the burr might be jammed so opened the coarseness right up. Still no grinds.

Turns out I had closed the hopper gate&#8230; opened it up and dropped beans into the running grinder. Which was still set at the coarsest setting!! Ripped through a load of decent coffee in a few seconds flat! Saved it for filter, came out pretty good 😂

Quick question, I've started using a dosing cup so I can be weighing a dose while the PF is in the machine if I'm making multiple shots. Obviously the dosing cup doesn't sit in the fork on the Mazzer. I've taken the fork off entirely which is fine, but is there a different solution? Like a fork that would fit both the PF and the cup?


----------



## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

LostHighway said:


> I'm awaiting new coffee so haven't been making much the last couple of days. Had an absolute shocker and wasted a load of coffee, posting this for laughs&#8230;
> 
> The Mazzer wasn't grinding anything, couldn't work out why, the motor was running fine, hopper had beans in. I thought the burr might be jammed so opened the coarseness right up. Still no grinds.
> 
> ...


 I am afraid not. Mazzer are not designed for SD but if you put Daniel Wong kit you will have more space. Don't understand very well, you want to grind directly in a cup which sits in the portafilter?


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Out of interest, can you get your fork back on now? I took mine off to clean around it and had to take the base off as there are nuts on the back of the fork screws that just drop off inside if the screws are undone. Needed a set of security torx bits to get the base off.

I modded the MM to doserless today, the wiring part of the mod is really easy, just disconnect the wires for the two microswitches and replace with wire links in their place. Making a funnel was actually really time consuming and not fun. I bought a 1 litre stainless steel bottle for a fiver and cut the bottom off of it then cut the holes for screws and coffee exit chute.

Was interesting that coffee now needs a lot more attention paid to prep, needed to do a lot more distribution in the PF to avoid spritzing. Unsurprising I guess, but turns out the doser does a good job of distributing the grinds. I thought retention would have gone down but not noticeably different compared to the doser with clean sweep. Weird.


----------



## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

newdent said:


> Out of interest, can you get your fork back on now? I took mine off to clean around it and had to take the base off as there are nuts on the back of the fork screws that just drop off inside if the screws are undone. Needed a set of security torx bits to get the base off.
> 
> I modded the MM to doserless today, the wiring part of the mod is really easy, just disconnect the wires for the two microswitches and replace with wire links in their place. Making a funnel was actually really time consuming and not fun. I bought a 1 litre stainless steel bottle for a fiver and cut the bottom off of it then cut the holes for screws and coffee exit chute.
> 
> Was interesting that coffee now needs a lot more attention paid to prep, needed to do a lot more distribution in the PF to avoid spritzing. Unsurprising I guess, but turns out the doser does a good job of distributing the grinds. I thought retention would have gone down but not noticeably different compared to the doser with clean sweep. Weird.


 With Daniel Wong kit you can eliminate the retention almost totally, according to his videos at least. It's my next project 😁.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

profesor_historia said:


> I am afraid not. Mazzer are not designed for SD but if you put Daniel Wong kit you will have more space. Don't understand very well, you want to grind directly in a cup which sits in the portafilter?


 Sorry I didn't explain very well. I'm not single dosing, I just fill the hopper and run the timed switch which if I turn the switch until the motor kicks in, it tends to drop a loosely accurate 17-19g into the doser which I'll then dose into the PF. If I'm over the dose weight and I'm making more than one coffee, I'll spoon some back into the doser for the next shot. If I'm just making one for me, there does tend to be a bit of wastage but saves having to deal with the retention issues of SD with the Mini.

The reason for using the dosing cup is so I can start weighing out subsequent doses while extracting the dose currently in the PF to make the process for multiple coffees quicker.

@newdent I think the bolt holes on mine are threaded, although the bolts are incredibly long given the thickness of the grinder body.

Interesting about the doserless mod! I'm still on the fence for the reasons you've mentioned. Dosing with the doser is a slight faff but I quite enjoy it for now.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

profesor_historia said:


> With Daniel Wong kit you can eliminate the retention almost totally, according to his videos at least. It's my next project 😁.


 Yes, it seems like the best option long term.

I only need mine for the next month or two, so I made a cardboard back plate and £5 bottle with the bottom cut off. It looks naff but will do the job until my niche turns up.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

All things considered I think it looks pretty good! Better than a plastic bottle!

I think I may just keep the doser until such time I feel I can justify the Mazzer Mini 'E' or an alternative.

Whilst I love trying new roasts/roasters and tend to drop a new bag in the hopper once a week or so, I'm not really into single dosing so increased efficiency for 3+ (When we are allowed more friends round) cups will likely be the only reason I'd upgrade.

Wheres your wooden PF handle from? That also looks great.


----------



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

LostHighway said:


> All things considered I think it looks pretty good! Better than a plastic bottle!
> 
> I think I may just keep the doser until such time I feel I can justify the Mazzer Mini 'E' or an alternative.
> 
> ...


 I probably should have just used a plastic bottle 😆 the aluminium ring around the narrow section makes it look more like a bottle which doesn't help. Had I known the stainless was going to be such a pain to cut I'd have either not bothered or just paid the extra £10 for one of the funnels that look more standard. Thing is, those funnels are quite large and look big, even on an SJ, let alone a MM.

Having used this and the doser now, I wouldn't say this is particularly better a setup than the doser and at least with the doser you can do other things whilst the coffee is grinding. I'll try this setup for a free more days and might swap back to the doser if I don't get on with it.

Got the PF from eBay; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANCILIO-Bottomless-Portafilter-Espresso-Walnut-Handle-Triple-Shot-21g-Basket-/274130590268

Was the cheapest I could find. I think it's real walnut but has a glossy finish. If I had the money I'd spend more on a premium one. It clashes a bit with the silvia really, a nice black and chrome one would have been a better choice imo.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

I got another 1kg bag from Newground which has been really enjoyable and using the same beans has allowed me to practice a bit more consistently.

I've noticed a couple of things this week. Firstly 17g in an 18g VST basket seems to work well. At 18g I get a deep indentation from the screen nut and at 16g the puck is so sloppy it's a pain to clean out.

Secondly, the different types of milk jug make a HUGE difference! I had an unbranded 400ml Amazon one before with straight sides and a slanted opening. I got a 350ml Motta with the narrower top and not only does it feel more forgiving, it also somehow makes achieving decent microfoam easier.


----------



## LostHighway (Mar 18, 2021)

Now with more latte art!

&#8230;not perfect but it tasted great!

Again, the Motta is a game changer, I didn't expect to product these results with oat milk so early into my espresso journey!


----------

