# Lagom P64 arrived this morning!



## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

After various Brexit / Covid / Xmas delivery delays, my shiny silver (actually its more matt than shiny) Lagom P64 arrived this morning.

First impressions - well packaged, nicely heavy, beautifully machined and finished grinder, very quiet and with easy to use controls, with a few nice accessories included. Its like a piece of art next to my very utilitarian Mazzer Mini B

Second impressions - very fluffy grind compared to the Mazzer (the grinds taking up more space in the portafilter) and a fair bit of static... 18g in 17.8g out... and... oops, too fine to get any water through... in the bin...

Third impressions - very fluffy grind, slightly less static... 18g in, 18g out with a few gentle taps on the top of the grinder toward the end of the grind to get the last bits thorough... sweeter, more complex taste to the coffee than with the Mazzer... yes this may be my brain trying to validate the purchase!

Very happy so far!!


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

Beautiful


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

Stunning!

If I were in the market for a new grinder this would definitely be a potential... Unfortunately it'll have to wait a couple of years I imagine!

Let us know how you get on with it 😊


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

That's a grinder on Viagra for sure 😉

Looks great can't wait to hear how you find it....I'm hoping to get a test one at some point....


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I think you should name it Gort


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Klatu barada nikto ....if I remember rightly


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

One of the SD flat grinders I would love but I doubt it would be an improvement in the cup over what I have and it would certainly put a big hole in my wallet!

Enjoy! Looks really nice.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Is the atomiser / RDT / moisten the beans / a requirement or just a nice to have? What happens if you don't use it?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

How much are they? Certainly looks premium


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

1600ish??


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> That's a grinder on Viagra for sure 😉
> 
> Looks great can't wait to hear how you find it....I'm hoping to get a test one at some point....


 yeah I was thinking it looks like a microscope, but maybe somewhat phallic too!!


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

richwade80 said:


> I think you should name it Gort
> 
> View attachment 50356


 That movie must have passed me by....


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Is the atomiser / RDT / moisten the beans / a requirement or just a nice to have? What happens if you don't use it?


 its a little staticy without, definitely less so with a spray... not a huge difference, would be fine without


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

KTD said:


> How much are they? Certainly looks premium


 it was a little over 1500 including all taxes and delivery, dependant on exchange rate at the time as priced in euros.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

mctaff said:


> its a little staticy without, definitely less so with a spray... not a huge difference, would be fine without


New burrs too so that may pass


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

a few pics - 18g in, 18.1 out - clearly retained a little from the previous shot.

you can also see some static effects - without an RDT spray - as a small amount of grind is stuck to the funnel


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

and the grind - P64 vs Mazzer

definitely appears to be more coffee in the P64 grind (although they weigh the same), with white flecks far more visible than in the Mazzer


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

the shots look similar but taste different!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'd be interested to see how clumpy or not the grinder is .

So a clip of the grinder grinding straight into the pf or if not a photo top down after if has ground into the pf.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'd be interested to see how clumpy or not the grinder is .
> 
> So a clip of the grinder grinding straight into the pf or if not a photo top down after if has ground into the pf.


 I've not noticed any clumps so far - only a handful of shots though - definitely an improvement on the Mazzer which has the odd small clump.

I'm a bit wired after too many test shots today, but will take a short vid tomorrow!


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## shaunlawler (Feb 7, 2014)

Would this be 3x better than a Niche then?

It does look very nice though and much more industrial looking


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

shaunlawler said:


> Would this be 3x better than a Niche then?
> 
> It does look very nice though and much more industrial looking


 Is a LMLM 4x better than a Lelit Elizabeth? I don't think it works like that.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

shaunlawler said:


> Would this be 3x better than a Niche then?
> 
> It does look very nice though and much more industrial looking


 ...well... I reckon the P64 is about 10x better looking, and I imagine its also quieter (admittedly I've not used a Niche so that's speculation)

but I'm guessing the performance won't be miles apart... although the P64 is flat and I think the Niche is conical?


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## Andyz (Oct 28, 2018)

I love this grinder, smashing purchase 👍
I even went through to buy it a couple of days ago and then realised the 600 euros listed was the deposit😅
Unfortunately I don't have the funds but will closely follow your updates, and when I do....


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'd be interested to see how clumpy or not the grinder is .
> 
> So a clip of the grinder grinding straight into the pf or if not a photo top down after if has ground into the pf.


 ok, here you go...

the noise at the end is me tapping the top of the grinder to release any trapped grind

/monthly_2021_01/1110788228_LagomGrind.mp4.0060db3d21594d8a9ce7657f95f490bf.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment 1110788228_LagomGrind.mp4


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Thanks , what roaster , coffee are you using


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Thanks , what roaster , coffee are you using


 That's a Monmouth Ethiopian


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

I've had the chance to use the P64 for a few days now, so thought I'd share some more thoughts...

Firstly, retention.

I'm consistently getting within 0.1g of the input coffee weight back out. I've noticed my scales aren't consistent, so entirely possible the discrepancy is actually with the scales.

I did a test to weigh how much coffee was retained, by putting some grindz through the P64. My intention was to grab the coffee that arrived before the grindz and weigh it.

answer = zero coffee retained... see video

/monthly_2021_01/Grindz.mp4.db2a7101045eade23442edf5bf52fa79.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment Grindz.mp4


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Next, static.

I noticed different static effects, when not using the spray. Sometimes this resulted in clumping of the grind, and some retention.

I've taken to giving the beans a single spray, which removes the majority of static, and stops all clumping and retention.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

The grind.

I'm definitely getting what visually appears to be more coffee out than with the Mazzer. This is noticeable when using the levelling tool: with the Mazzer the tool could be pushed all the way into the portafilter, and would then give a flat surface when rotated. With the P64 I need to force the tool to get it all the way into the portafilter, and if I rotate, I end up with a slightly uneven surface, because I can't compress the coffee as much.

I can think of two explanations for this, although I'm sure someone on here may have a better one, or perhaps point out I'm talking total %$^£$!...

a: the grind is coarser; this is likely to result in a noticeably different pour, hence I don't think this is the cause

b: the grind is more consistent; I'm noticing less channeling and spritzing, so my thoughts are with this explanation


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## olivier (Jan 4, 2016)

Indeed all big flat grinders seem to generate quite a bit of static. Spraying the beans is the best way to deal with it indeed, although I guess cleaning your grinder then becomes a bit more important.

I've stopped doing it and I've learned to live with the static and the occasional clumping it can generate on my Monolith. As long as you give the grounds a good stir using fine needles, it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on the end result.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

olivier said:


> Indeed all big flat grinders seem to generate quite a bit of static. Spraying the beans is the best way to deal with it indeed, although I guess cleaning your grinder then becomes a bit more important.
> 
> I've stopped doing it and I've learned to live with the static and the occasional clumping it can generate on my Monolith. As long as you give the grounds a good stir using fine needles, it doesn't seem to have any negative effect on the end result.


 I'm hoping it will calm down once the burrs are seasoned.

Agree though, after a good stir the static disappears, and the final coffee doesn't seem to be any different.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

mctaff said:


> The grind.
> 
> I'm definitely getting what visually appears to be more coffee out than with the Mazzer. This is noticeable when using the levelling tool: with the Mazzer the tool could be pushed all the way into the portafilter, and would then give a flat surface when rotated. With the P64 I need to force the tool to get it all the way into the portafilter, and if I rotate, I end up with a slightly uneven surface, because I can't compress the coffee as much.
> 
> ...


 a &b are inter-related.

A narrower distribution, at a similar level of fines %, will be a finer overall grind.

A wider distribution, at a similar average size/fines %, will produce ultimately larger particles. (E.g. coarser if working back from largest particles).

It depends where you are measuring from & which aspect relates more closely to extraction (seemingly it is fines %, so the grind is just as likely coarser, or wider distribution). But, without measurement, we still have no real clue as to either aspect.


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## ArkellvsPressdram (Jun 21, 2020)

mctaff said:


> the shots look similar but taste different!


 How are the taste differences between the two?


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

MWJB said:


> a &b are inter-related.
> 
> A narrower distribution, at a similar level of fines %, will be a finer overall grind.
> 
> ...


 Yeah that makes sense re finer overall grind etc.

Would the space the grinds take up not be less for a wider distribution though, as smaller particles fill in air gaps next to bigger particles?

When I imagine a wide distribution, e.g. a few footballs, a bag of tennis balls and a few ballbearings in there too... the tennis balls sit in the gaps between the footballs and the ballbearings fill in all the small gaps between the tennis balls... to me this sounds like fewer air gaps and less space taken up

Conversely a narrow distribution gives me just a load of tennis balls, which I think will have more air gaps, and hence take up more space


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

mctaff said:


> Yeah that makes sense re finer overall grind etc.
> 
> Would the space the grinds take up not be less for a wider distribution though, as smaller particles fill in air gaps next to bigger particles?
> 
> ...


 Even a narrow distribution will have ball-bearings & beach balls  If you consider that an espresso grind can have about 16% density volume at ~80um, and the largest particles may be around 1mm, that's 12.5 times the diameter (more for particle volume).

I couldn't really say, I don't think anyone has actually looked at this.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Even a narrow distribution will have ball-bearings & beach balls 🙂 If you consider that an espresso grind can have about 16% density volume at ~80um, and the largest particles may be around 1mm, that's 12.5 times the diameter (more for particle volume).
> 
> I couldn't really say, I don't think anyone has actually looked at this.


 yeah I get that even a narrow distribution is far from identical - I was just giving an extreme example to illustrate my point.

I'm way beyond my physics A-level here so I'll stop theorising now!!

😁


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

It is a beautiful grinder. It just looks splendid.

What machine have you coupled it with?


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

ArkellvsPressdram said:


> How are the taste differences between the two?


 Honestly I've not done many back to back shots and compared.... I'll try and do that this week.

The coffee in the cup is definitely more consistent with the P64 - no lighter cups, no random fast pours, and the crema appears a bit thicker.

Some of this may be down to retention, as I wasn't great at remembering to throw the first second of grind away with the mazzer, to get rid of the stale stuff.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

John Yossarian said:


> It is a beautiful grinder. It just looks splendid.
> 
> What machine have you coupled it with?


 I got a Lelit Bianca last year... which produces fantastic coffee, but has driven me down the rabbit hole somewhat!


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

mctaff said:


> I got a Lelit Bianca last year... which produces fantastic coffee...


 Brill....and with that grinder it should be a win win win combo.

p.s. you dropped a bean in your video :classic_wink:

p.p.s. where those beans roasted; they looked anemic to me lol 😮


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> p.p.s. where those beans roasted; they looked anemic to me lol 😮


 I assume you are joking here 🙂

If this was ~£1000 I would be all over it but the price is just a bit too high to make me pull the trigger.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

mctrials23 said:


> I assume you are joking here 🙂
> 
> If this was ~£1000 I would be all over it but the price is just a bit too high to make me pull the trigger.


 Hi, i'm not dissing anything, far from it and i'm a tad envious of that grinder....i was shocked at the colour of the beans that's all....not purchased any light beans (yet) on my coffee journey....they're next on my "try"list; from whom, i don't know yet....but no, no offense was meant.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> Hi, i'm not dissing anything, far from it and i'm a tad envious of that grinder....i was shocked at the colour of the beans that's all....not purchased any light beans (yet) on my coffee journey....they're next on my "try"list; from whom, i don't know yet....but no, no offense was meant.


 They're Urnex Grindz, a cleaning product shaped like coffee beans.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

:classic_blush: :classic_blush: :classic_blush: ooops...i am a newbie lol....well that's my excuse and i'm sticking by it :classic_wink:

goes off (with a red face) looking for Urnex Grindz to check em out...


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> :classic_blush: :classic_blush: :classic_blush: ooops...i am a newbie lol....well that's my excuse and i'm sticking by it :classic_wink:
> 
> goes off (with a red face) looking for Urnex Grindz to check em out...


 yeah, I'd be worried if my beans came in looking like that - I thought you realised they were grindz and were just joking!!


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

mctaff said:


> I'm way beyond my physics A-level here so I'll stop theorising now!!
> 
> 😁


 Your A level physics has served you well, A* all round  The subject is called 'packing problems' and has been massively studied. In general for a 'random' packing, then the higher the variability, the better the packing. For a bi-modal case, with just 2 sizes of grain, then maximum packing (i.e minimum porosity) occurs when 55-75% of the frains are of the larger size (depending on geometry etc.)


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

mctaff said:


> yeah, I'd be worried if my beans came in looking like that - *I thought you realised they were grindz *and were just joking!!


 No, no, no i hold my hand up...i genuinely didn't know about them (hence my embarrassment)....but i thank you for enlightening me regarding them; so much so i've just this instant purchased these (click to see) ...i will tease the missus with them when they arrive; i'll pretent my current beans have gone manky :classic_wink:


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> No, no, no i hold my hand up...i genuinely didn't know about them (hence my embarrassment)....but i thank you for enlightening me regarding them; so much so i've just this instant purchased these (click to see) ...i will tease the missus with them when they arrive; i'll pretent my current beans have gone manky :classic_wink:


 yeah just don't make a coffee with them by accident, that won't be pleasant at all!!


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

earthflattener said:


> Your A level physics has served you well, A* all round  The subject is called 'packing problems' and has been massively studied. In general for a 'random' packing, then the higher the variability, the better the packing. For a bi-modal case, with just 2 sizes of grain, then maximum packing (i.e minimum porosity) occurs when 55-75% of the frains are of the larger size (depending on geometry etc.)


 Thanks... I knew someone on the forum would be better educated on the subject than me!


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> Hi, i'm not dissing anything, far from it and i'm a tad envious of that grinder....i was shocked at the colour of the beans that's all....not purchased any light beans (yet) on my coffee journey....they're next on my "try"list; from whom, i don't know yet....but no, no offense was meant.


 Haha, I never thought you were being rude, I just assumed you knew they were grindz. I they weren't you would be right! Very Anaemic! That being said I have seen some beans on here that look like they have been shown a roaster and then bagged without ever feeling its warm embrace.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Yeah, i've seen plenty of pictures of those that do look like they've only had a sniff of a roaster; as i've seen plenty of pictures/videos of green beand....but custardy coloured ones caught me by surprise lol :classic_blush:


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## leemkule (Jan 6, 2021)

Hi,

Does this grinder come with a UK plug?


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

leemkule said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does this grinder come with a UK plug?


 yup... actually its a detachable power cord like you get with an stereo amplifier or the like


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## leemkule (Jan 6, 2021)

mctaff said:


> yup... actually its a detachable power cord like you get with an stereo amplifier or the like


 That's great, thanks for replying.

Which Burrs did you go for? Are you happy with it for espresso?


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

leemkule said:


> That's great, thanks for replying.
> 
> Which Burrs did you go for? Are you happy with it for espresso?


 I forget the exact name of the burrs, but the ones the manufacturer recommends for espresso

I'm definitely getting more consistent coffee than from the mazzer mini it replaced, which was one of my main bugbears / drivers to change the grinder.

It tasted great with the mazzer but I think its further improved now. I should really do some back to back comparisons...

I also much prefer the single dosing, as I'm able to weigh my beans in advance (i'm weighing out the days beans into tiny Kilner jars), so less messing around when I need a coffee.

Then there's the looks, the smaller footprint, its way quieter... its an absolute winner for me so far


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Wow 🤩 Love the look and your review/thoughts on the P64. This is currently my preferred option for my big upgrade - thanks for sharing.


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## leemkule (Jan 6, 2021)

mctaff said:


> I forget the exact name of the burrs, but the ones the manufacturer recommends for espresso
> 
> I'm definitely getting more consistent coffee than from the mazzer mini it replaced, which was one of my main bugbears / drivers to change the grinder.
> 
> ...


 Could I just ask, how much longer did it take you to receive your grinder?

I have a pre-order for 'late January' but I'm just wondering how long I should be expecting to wait?


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Great news on your order - hope you love it as much as I do!!

I think mine was slated for early Dec, but arrived just before the new year.

Partially that was down to the emails from Hayden going into my junk folder... so I missed the request for the payment of the balance, which delayed things a week.

It took roughly 2 weeks from leaving the manufacturer to arriving with me.

Hayden was very helpful and responsive when I was asking what was going on.


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## leemkule (Jan 6, 2021)

mctaff said:


> Great news on your order - hope you love it as much as I do!!
> 
> I think mine was slated for early Dec, but arrived just before the new year.
> 
> ...


 That's great, thank you!

Did you have to pay any extra customs fees or charges when you received it?


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

leemkule said:


> That's great, thank you!
> 
> Did you have to pay any extra customs fees or charges when you received it?


 no... all taxes were included in the price.

However, it did come via Europe, which may changes things given the Brexit mess.

Let's hope they've realised the problems which will occur if it comes via the EU, and that they send it direct to the UK.


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## Browdo (Jan 20, 2021)

Lovely looking grinder


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Mr Hoffmann's initial review.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> Mr Hoffmann's initial review.


 Interesting to see his comment regarding Lagom apparently going against the traditional grinder gradation marking convention so that increasing the number on the dial for the P64 actually makes the grind finer.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Marocchino said:


> Interesting to see his comment regarding Lagom apparently going against the traditional grinder gradation marking convention so that increasing the number on the dial for the P64 actually makes the grind finer.


 That was interesting to learn! Does go against every other grinder but is it really a deal breaker...for me no.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

THR_Crema said:


> That was interesting to learn! Does go against every other grinder but is it really a deal breaker...for me no.


 ok in the comments and you Will see that some grinders have numbers the traditional way too.

Whilst not a deal breaker , it shows perhaps a little lack of attention that I would find frustrating in a product of that price.

Same with the RPM dial, its no big deal but it shows a little lack of thought


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Whilst not a deal breaker , it shows perhaps a little lack of attention that I would find frustrating in a product of that price.
> 
> Same with the RPM dial, its no big deal but it shows a little lack of thought


 Totally agree.

For me the process of water spraying the beans before use doesn't make it that attractive a proposition either.
I realise many high end grinders depend upon this process for static control, yet for me, it's just another process to add to the list of things to do before getting down to making a coffee.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Marocchino said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> For me the process of water spraying the beans before use doesn't make it that attractive a proposition either.
> I realise many high end grinders depend upon this process for static control, yet for me, it's just another process to add to the list of things to do before getting down to making a coffee.


 That rules out most single dosing grinders ( if you want to remove static )


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> That rules out most single dosing grinders ( if you want to remove static )


 Seems to be that way.

I know it's not in the price bracket of the higher end grinders but thankfully my Niche doesn't seem to need it.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

"i can't answer that question right now"

gotta love JH....i call that a CYA (Cover Your Ass) statement....well done JH, well done indeed; don't stick yer neck out.


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> "i can't answer that question right now"
> 
> gotta love JH....i call that a CYA (Cover Your Ass) statement....well done JH, well done indeed; don't stick yer neck out.


 That's the issue with almost every (mostly tech-related) product review tbh.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

good review... I agree with everything he said, although the numbering thing seems a bit OCD for me!

thankfully my portafillter (Lelit) fits perfectly.

personally I've never looked at the numbers once since using it... never have with any grinder... basically you turn it one way to make the grind finer, the other way to make it coarser... for me at least, the numbers are irrelevant. I imagine if you use multiple grinders regularly, and this one behaves differently re adjustment, that could be confusing... but for the home user with a single grinder, I can't see it makes any difference.

static - some beans are worse than others, but I've taken to giving a single spray because some do clump a little otherwise


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mctaff said:


> good review... I agree with everything he said, although the numbering thing seems a bit OCD for me!
> 
> thankfully my portafillter (Lelit) fits perfectly.
> 
> personally I've never looked at the numbers once since using it... never have with any grinder... basically you turn it one way to make the grind finer, the other way to make it coarser... for me at least, the numbers are irrelevant.


 Any grinder where you turn the coller to adjust, clockwise makes it finer and anticlockwise makes it looser....except of course in Australia/New Zealand where it is the opposite way round.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

except mazzer, its reverse threads lol as i found out on my new beast


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Cuprajake Absolutely, I forgot about Mazzer, probably like to be different. 😉 So many machines....so many years.

Of course, if used in Australia or NZ...It'd be different as we know. Even the cars wheels rotate in the opposite direction.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

@DavecUK i didnt google it mazzer were Australian


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


> @DavecUK i didnt google it mazzer were Australian


 MazOz then????


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Ceados go finer to the right too...


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Cuprajake said:


> except mazzer, its reverse threads lol as i found out on my new beast
> 
> View attachment 52085


 Useful to know that if you have a Luigi M a Lagom P or a Caedo; Righty tighty, Lefty loosey, does not apply.🤔


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@The Systemic Kid I am sure Mazzer (and Ceado) are Australian


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Marocchino said:


> Useful to know that if you have a Luigi M a Lagom P or a Caedo; Righty tighty, Lefty loosey, does not apply.🤔


 The Lagom is clockwise for finer


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

mctaff said:


> The Lagom is clockwise for finer


 Glad you clarified that - clockwise finer as the gradation number increases. 👍


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

leemkule said:


> That's great, thank you!
> 
> Did you have to pay any extra customs fees or charges when you received it?


 I've just put a deposit down for the lagom, end of April delivery.

So I spoke with Hayden regarding shipping to the uk and this is what I was told.

Hi Michael,

*Thanks for your interest!*

*Brexit has caused a bit of uncertainty on the shipping scene for sure - however, at the moment, we have checked with our shipping company and it appears they can still provide duty-prepaid service. So if you opt for the EUR payment, duty will be prepaid (priced into the EUR pricing). *

*However, if that situation changes down the road, we will let you know. Worst case scenario, if you have paid for the duty-prepaid option and still get sent a custom bill, we will be more than happy to cover it (as we considered that to be part of the paid service).*

*Regards*

*Hayden*

I was a bit excited and already placed the order before I saw his email in my junk folder. In my haste I accidentally checked out and paid the deposit in USD with shipping charges at $100 USD. I contacted Hayden to let him know my mistake and he said that wasn't a problem and the pre paid duty to be added would be $250 USD. So total price $1935, and using Revolut for the exchange works out around £1415 total! Perhaps it's cheaper for people in the UK to pay in USD as opposed to EUR 🤷🏼‍♂️


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Karka said:


> ...So total price $1935, and using Revolut for the exchange works out around *£1415 total!* Perhaps it's cheaper for people in the UK to pay in USD as opposed to EUR...


 Well that is a turn up for the books indeed.....£1415 :classic_biggrin: ....thanks for the heads up ✊


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

Rincewind said:


> Well that is a turn up for the books indeed.....£1415 :classic_biggrin: ....thanks for the heads up ✊


 I could well be wrong lol. We'll see in 10-12 weeks 😆


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you matey 😋


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

1.5k shouldn't seem reasonable to me. But it does. I'm worried.


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

Karka said:


> I've just put a deposit down for the lagom, end of April delivery.
> 
> So I spoke with Hayden regarding shipping to the uk and this is what I was told.
> 
> ...


 the exchange rate has improved recently, which has knocked about 5% off your price too compared to what I paid


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## Bullit121 (Feb 18, 2021)

Very nice. As they say buy cheap...buy twice 😁


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## Sebinho9 (May 3, 2020)

I can't decide between the Ceado E37SD and this. Factors below:

Ceado -

-Larger burrs

-more readily available

but

-doesn't have the 45° angle

-doesn't look as good

-more expensive

Lagom -

longer wait time

customs charges (potentially)

Anyone had experience of both? I really want the Ceado E37Z Naked but I really don't see the point in paying double the price.


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## mooky (Feb 28, 2021)

.


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## mooky (Feb 28, 2021)

Karka said:


> he said that wasn't a problem and the pre paid duty to be added would be $250 USD. So total price $1935, and using Revolut for the exchange works out around £1415 total! Perhaps it's cheaper for people in the UK to pay in USD as opposed to EUR 🤷🏼‍♂️


 Does that $250 include VAT? If so, perhaps that's a much better option than paying on arrival.

Unless they are declaring a lower customs value, VAT on grinder alone would be nearly $300.

As I understand it, we have to pay %20 VAT on the total of grinder cost + shipping cost + any duties applied...

I would be very sad if I have pay an additional ~£300 VAT on arrival.


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## mooky (Feb 28, 2021)

mctaff said:


> The Lagom is clockwise for finer


 Interestingly, looking at the pics on the website, the numbers on the grind scale seem to have reversed.

if clockwise is finer, it shows numbers getting smaller (whereas your pics show that numbers would be getting larger)

option-o website










yours:


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

mooky said:


> Does that $250 include VAT? If so, perhaps that's a much better option than paying on arrival.
> 
> Unless they are declaring a lower customs value, VAT on grinder alone would be nearly $300.
> 
> ...


 @mookyI'm pretty sure the total includes VAT and duty.

If you convert their price from USD to EUR, the standard price of $1585 works out to around €1325. So to charge a flat duty prepaid price of €1640 I would assume that included duty, vat, and a fee for the courier processing the paperwork.

Not sure on EU import duty but the uk is 2%. So if we go on that figure as a rough guide €1325 + vat = €1590 + duty = €1621

Worst case scenario and VAT has to be paid on top, then I'll just put it through my business and claim the VAT back that way.


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## mooky (Feb 28, 2021)

Karka said:


> @mookyI'm pretty sure the total includes VAT and duty.
> 
> If you convert their price from USD to EUR, the standard price of $1585 works out to around €1325. So to charge a flat duty prepaid price of €1640 I would assume that included duty, vat, and a fee for the courier processing the paperwork.
> 
> ...


 Actually, I just spread-sheeted it up:

If 2% duty is right, I get a total of £1479 at today's exchange rate - which is not a million miles different from your initial calc.

Prepaid is probably always going to better - otherwise you will get hit with a £15-20 admin charge from courier at this end. And additional shipping delays.


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

mooky said:


> Actually, I just spread-sheeted it up:
> 
> If 2% duty is right, I get a total of £1479 at today's exchange rate - which is not a million miles different from your initial calc.
> 
> Prepaid is probably always going to better - otherwise you will get hit with a £15-20 admin charge from courier at this end. And additional shipping delays.


 I reckon the courier will charge more. I paid this sort of fee for some cheap cosmetics from USA last year. I'm sure with brexit they will be charging more just because they can.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Rincewind said:


> No, no, no i hold my hand up...i genuinely didn't know about them (hence my embarrassment)....but i thank you for enlightening me regarding them; so much so i've just this instant purchased these (click to see) ...i will tease the missus with them when they arrive; i'll pretent my current beans have gone manky :classic_wink:


 Do


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

I've put down a deposit for a mid-May delivery. Opted for the Unimodal burrs as all I normally drink are light roasted coffees. Hopefully it's the right choice. So there is going to be a chrome Mignon XL for sale in May.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Dallah said:


> I've put down a deposit for a mid-May delivery. Opted for the Unimodal burrs as all I normally drink are light roasted coffees. Hopefully it's the right choice. So there is going to be a chrome Mignon XL for sale in May.


I think it's one of the best grinders on the market, both aesthetically and quality materials, small footprint, it's a a very fine piece of engineering.


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## jonr2 (Jan 6, 2021)

profesor_historia said:


> Dallah said:
> 
> 
> > I've put down a deposit for a mid-May delivery. Opted for the Unimodal burrs as all I normally drink are light roasted coffees. Hopefully it's the right choice. So there is going to be a chrome Mignon XL for sale in May.
> ...


 agree - if this year hadn't already seen me buy a Wilfa Uniform, Niche (on order), Sage Bambino & Bianca it would be on my list but not now or just maybe 🙂


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Great to see and hear more people ordering the Lagom - how are people with them still finding them?


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## mooky (Feb 28, 2021)

mooky said:


> Interestingly, looking at the pics on the website, the numbers on the grind scale seem to have reversed.
> 
> if clockwise is finer, it shows numbers getting smaller (whereas your pics show that numbers would be getting larger)
> 
> ...


 Well, apparently, I have this exactly backwards. The option-o website shows the original version of the grinder. Apparently it was updated (and reversed) in October 2020


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## mctaff (Nov 16, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> Great to see and hear more people ordering the Lagom - how are people with them still finding them?


 I'm still finding mine brilliant.

its a pleasure to use, beautiful to look at, I've had no issues, and I'm getting consistent lovely tasting coffee!

I'm interested to hear thoughts from others who have one though.


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## Jamesonguitar (Mar 22, 2021)

Just ordered mine last night... a bit of a wait to come, but excited to up my home

coffee game!


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

We might have enough owners to justify our own forum soon.

@The Systemic Kidhow many people have to request a forum before you will set one up?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Good question Andrew - will look into it. If I forget - feel free to remind me.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Jamesonguitar said:


> Just ordered mine last night... a bit of a wait to come, but excited to up my home
> 
> coffee game!


 Nice one 👍 Mid May delivery? Which burrs did you select?


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## Jamesonguitar (Mar 22, 2021)

Yup, mid may 👍🏼 I asked for the unimodal burrs in it and a set of high uniformity on the side. I am into light and medium roasts, use vst baskets and Flow profiling, so i am not sure how the unimodal will work for me, hence both sets


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## ckrhodes (Feb 19, 2019)

I ordered mine a few weeks back for early May dispatch - it can't come soon enough!


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

I noticed in the new teaser video by Flair for their new Flair 58 model they had the black Lagom. Certainly becoming a more known grinder and I presume Mr Hoffmann doing his review has helped - it's certainly given me more confidence in the company delivering what they advertise.

May seems a long way off but will soon be here.


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## Joe shorrock (Nov 18, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> I noticed in the new teaser video by Flair for their new Flair 58 model they had the black Lagom. Certainly becoming a more known grinder and I presume Mr Hoffmann doing his review has helped - it's certainly given me more confidence in the company delivering what they advertise.
> 
> May seems a long way off but will soon be here.


 Flair have had the lagom for about 8 months they posted it last July


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Could I request someone that has received a Lagom to provide me the dimensions for the base plate please?


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

mctaff said:


> After various Brexit / Covid / Xmas delivery delays, my shiny silver (actually its more matt than shiny) Lagom P64 arrived this morning.
> 
> First impressions - well packaged, nicely heavy, beautifully machined and finished grinder, very quiet and with easy to use controls, with a few nice accessories included. Its like a piece of art next to my very utilitarian Mazzer Mini B
> 
> ...


 Morning - what a beauty this is 👍 Could I trouble you and ask for the exact measurements of the base please? Looking at whether I could sit one on top of a small knock box drawer I've found.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Jamesonguitar said:


> Yup, mid may 👍🏼 I asked for the unimodal burrs in it and a set of high uniformity on the side. I am into light and medium roasts, use vst baskets and Flow profiling, so i am not sure how the unimodal will work for me, hence both sets


 @Jamesonguitar Exactly my situation. Just cannot decide so both must be ordered.


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## KaffineNovice (Mar 26, 2021)

Dallah said:


> @Jamesonguitar Exactly my situation. Just cannot decide so both must be ordered.


 Same for me! Just ordered a Lagom P64 with both burr sets 🙈. Not sure I need both as the expected life time if you pull 10 shots a day at 18g's you should have 76 years of use per set!


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

KaffineNovice said:


> Same for me! Just ordered a Lagom P64 with both burr sets 🙈. Not sure I need both as the expected life time if you pull 10 shots a day at 18g's you should have 76 years of use per set!


 I've ordered both SSP burr sets as well - more to experiment to find what I like. I'm sure a set will sell easily should we find we don't like or need them.


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## Bone (Jun 8, 2021)

Rincewind said:


> Well that is a turn up for the books indeed.....£1415 :classic_biggrin: ....thanks for the heads up ✊


 I am still confused. I live in Greece and we have 24% VAT taxes here that means around 331 euros taxes for 1383 euros grinder price.

From your experience what is better to do? If i pay 250$ for Duty Prepay Service how much will i pay for taxes and duties? Is there any chance to pay extra 24% when grinder arrive in Greece?


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## thamuhacha (Jul 7, 2020)

I ordered my P64 in July - it finally shipped 10 days ago and the waiting is really annoying me now. It's disappeared off the DPD tracking app - so I guess I am just waiting for it to clear customs and get handed to DPD?

In the meantime my new machine turned up early, so I am grinding 3-4 espressos a day on a Feld47 and my arm hurts.

Did anyone else's P64 take more than 10 days to show up?


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

How is everyone finding this grinder? I've put a pre-order in for next batch, but still the to change my mind and I just saw the Weber Key exists.

Currently have a Nice and Bianca. I adjust my water to give 'desired' (not trying to open that can if worms, just making the point that i don't think my water is an issue) ranges on kh and gh readings. I drink mostly medium roast and like a mixture of taste profiles, which is why I single dose.

I'm upgrading (will it be an upgrade?) because I like shiny new things and I find the Niche has a sourness I just can't get rid of, maybe it's the fruit-forwardness inherent to conicals? Don't get me wrong, I can make great espresso, it's just not what I'm after. I used to have a Mignon and, though it struggled to give consistent results, I did find it gave me the caramel, brown sugar aftertaste that I love.

So to finish where I started; what are owners thoughts now you've had it a few months?


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

I absolutely love mine!!!

So I went with HU SSP Burrs but also got the Unimodal which I've put in my Fellow Ode for now. I upgraded from the Sage Barista Express grinder so it's been a huge step up for me. The flat burrs are providing such consistency and love the adjustable RPM depending on the coffee I have.

So far I've not struggled dialling in any coffee. I'm interested to see people's feedback on the Weber Key when they arrive next year.

Suppose it depends if you want flat or conical burr grinder. Be nice if both were an option 😆


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Thanks, I think I want a flat, hence the change. I'll have Niche and Lagom at same time but probably only for a few days due to the wife's inevitable dissatisfaction at the arrangement. It won't give me enough time to properly season the burrs or get used to the grinder, but I hope to do some side by side comparison.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Thanks, I think I want a flat, hence the change. I'll have Niche and Lagom at same time but probably only for a few days due to the wife's inevitable dissatisfaction at the arrangement. It won't give me enough time to properly season the burrs or get used to the grinder, but I hope to do some side by side comparison.


 Which burrs have you gone for with the Lagom?


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

SSP HU, but am considering adding the multipurpose unimodal as well.


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