# SEEKING ADVICE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN GRINDERS



## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Hello to all!
I am new to the forum so please let me know if I am not posting my question in the correct place.
I would like to change my grinder but I can't figure out the right way to decide between the grinders with my budget. So here is my story:
I am single dosing (light-medium roasted beans). I am making 85% of the times espresso and 15% filter coffee. My grinder is a modded Rocky (doserless, tilted, blow, some 3d printed stuff,..)and have a modded Silvia (PID and flow control). Retention varies between 0.1-0.3. with some unmeasured exchange for sure, but I do believe it is not a lot. Now I am sick of it: 1.It is ugly with all the mods 2. I have to purge some coffee (2-3 gr) when I change between filter and espresso. 3.I am not pleased with the clarity of the cups. 4. steps are huge 5. The workflow is not user-friendly, all the mods considered.

I am seeking an option that allow me to change between grind settings easily, have the option of using SSP burrs. I am ok with modding, but I like my workflow in the mornings straightforward and easy.
On the other matter, I have never been used conical burrs or hand grinders, so I fancy something like comandante ( I know it there is a little of paradox going on here, since I prefer clarity over texture, but I heard comandante producing nice filter coffee, don't know if it is as good as a flat burrs!). 

Based on my budget, these are the options that I think I have:
1.Buy a 2007 Mazzer mini (while praying that it has good bearings)- add a bellow and 3d printed doserless mod (not the steel one) + change or modify the burr carriers to 64mm (I didn't find a lot of info on modifying the burrs by adding 3 holes, just one. Appreciate any additional link) with multi purpose SSPs. Buy a comandante in a year or two. (More, having a comandante means if it produce good cups in filter, I am gonna use the Mazzer for just espresso and comandante for filter.)

2. Buy a df64 with stock burrs. Change to SSPs in a year or two. Forget the comandante.

I would appreciate the experiences or opinions on comparison between the mazzer and df64 in the workflow. Also a comparison of the cup taste between comandante and df64 stock burrs.
It could be nice of you to share if anyone other options to buy come to mind. My budget is 400 Euros + 200 in a year or two. The less the better.

Thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Ashhszd said:


> In the other matter, I have never been used conical burrs or hand grinders, so I fancy something like comandante ( I know it there is a little of paradox going on here, since I prefer clarity over texture, but I heard comandante producing nice filter coffee, don't know if it is as good as a flat burrs!).
> 
> Thanks


You already have flat burrs, but you're looking to change, so conicals would be change, despite not being flat.

What are the flat burrs that you consider to be good (most are normal)?

Commandante is also stepped, with bigger gaps than the Rocky.


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

MWJB said:


> You already have flat burrs, but you're looking to change, so conicals would be change, despite not being flat.
> 
> What are the flat burrs that you consider to be good (most are normal)?
> 
> Commandante is also stepped, with bigger gaps than the Rocky.


Thank you for the reply.
Indeed I have flat burrs, but with a very questionable quality. I enjoyed shots from Arduino Mythos, this is why I lean more towards the bigger flat burrs (with ability to single dose and in my budget of course)

If I recall correctly, each step on Rocky are 25 microns. Comandante + Red clix goes down to 15. Another option is kinu if I wanna go down this road. I am not a fan of 1zpressos.

But first, I have to decide about the electric grinder....


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## Maximum_RnB (Jun 14, 2020)

With that budget, I'd wait the 'year or two' and buy a Niche Zero.

I have a Comandante too but only use that when I'm travelling with my Aeropress. It's a really nice grinder however, as it comes, it's pot luck trying to dial-in for espresso but with the upgrade with smaller steps should be OK for that.


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Maximum_RnB said:


> With that budget, I'd wait the 'year or two' and buy a Niche Zero.
> 
> I have a Comandante too but only use that when I'm travelling with my Aeropress. It's a really nice grinder however, as it comes, it's pot luck trying to dial-in for espresso but with the upgrade with smaller steps should be OK for that.


I think I prefer flat burrs as my electric daily grinder. After searching around a little bit more, I think a Super Jolly to restore, or a df64 is better than Mazzer Mini or Niche for me.

What do you think about the Comandante performance for V60 type brews, comparing to other grinders, e.g Niche


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Wouldn't bother with the Niche. Conicals suit medium to darker roasts. It's easy to dial in though as they muddy the flavours compared to larger flats, so going between espresso and French Press isn't a problem.

Mazzer mini sounds OK. If you can pick a doserless electronic one up. Espresso grinders work better with a weight of beans in the hopper to give a consistent grind. Although if you're single dosing different beans it's a compromise due to popcorning with more fines and boulders.

I'm currently using a Mazzer Major modded with a Daniel Wong single dosing kit. It's a bit of a faff, makes a small amount of mess but given my old Mazzer a new lease of life. I got fed up with the Niche and that's just used for filter now.

Years ago the only advice was between a Super Jolly and a Major (or Royal if it'd fit). Either that or save up for a Mythos.. Then the EK43 came out and that was the "Ooooooo..." grinder of the time. There's a smaller grinder that's similar to the EK, a Santos I think its called. Might be able to find a used one of those?


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Rhys said:


> Wouldn't bother with the Niche. Conicals suit medium to darker roasts. It's easy to dial in though as they muddy the flavours compared to larger flats, so going between espresso and French Press isn't a problem.
> 
> Mazzer mini sounds OK. If you can pick a doserless electronic one up. Espresso grinders work better with a weight of beans in the hopper to give a consistent grind. Although if you're single dosing different beans it's a compromise due to popcorning with more fines and boulders.
> 
> ...


Yeah I know Niche is not the right grinder for me. Mythos and EK is over my budget for now.
Now I am between these two options:

1. SJ With 3D printed parts (doserless mod,anti pupcorning), bellow and SSPs (I am used to to RDT and WDT). I would LOVE to know your experience of bellows on Major or SJ if you have one (actually I found a deal on one from 2002, but I guess the age is not gonna be a problem - worst case is changing the bearings. let me know if I am wrong!)
2. A DF64
I am frankly a little bit amused that no one is vouching for df64. Is there anything wrong with it (apart from the fact that there is no proof that it ages well!).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I own a niche and use it for medium to medium light roast espresso and milk based drinks, as do alot of other folks .
then Again I have no interest in spending £1000 s in grinders for marginal gains ( been there done it ) .
we Did some blind taste testing once a t a cafe with niche and a mythos , some Picked the right grinder some didn’t , those that did were singing of night and day results . Then again they were nor looking to buy either of them .
this in but one opinions amongst a sea of opinions .
ssp flat burrs will not be a magicmsolution , as they need to be carefully aligned to get the bestl more so than a set of conicals do. 
other Than that safe up for a boutique grdienr


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Ashhszd said:


> Yeah I know Niche is not the right grinder for me. Mythos and EK is over my budget for now.
> Now I am between these two options:
> 
> 1. SJ With 3D printed parts (doserless mod,anti pupcorning), bellow and SSPs (I am used to to RDT and WDT). I would LOVE to know your experience of bellows on Major or SJ if you have one (actually I found a deal on one from 2002, but I guess the age is not gonna be a problem - worst case is changing the bearings. let me know if I am wrong!)
> ...


The doserless kit has a metal cap with a hole in it. You can give it a blast with a rocket blower from the top. The removable chute on the front (attached with magnets) also has a hole so you can blast the outlet to blow the coffee out. Basically what you put in comes out (after retention).

I'm not saying the Niche is bad btw. I've got one of the original early bird ones and it's great for milky drinks etc.
I did however unfairly do a comparison between it, my Custom Versalab M3 and an EK43 with Turkish burrs. Using the same coffee with all 3 dialled in it was pretty much bass, middle and treble. All three cups were enjoyable though which is the main thing, but for different reasons. I ended up selling the EK as at the time I wasn't enjoying the thinner brighter shots. My Major has always been in the background though. I did try it against the M3 the other day and maybe perceived more clarity with the M3 but tbh it's an unfair comparison as a) the Mazzer should have a hopper on with beans in to stop popcorning and a more uniform grind, and b) the customise Versalab is pretty much at the boutique end as its been fetled by Frank of Titus fame compared to stock. For my tastes I would be happy if I'd never tried the M3 and only ever used the Mazzer (which ended up costing me naff all).


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Mrboots2u said:


> I own a niche and use it for medium to medium light roast espresso and milk based drinks, as do alot of other folks .
> then Again I have no interest in spending £1000 s in grinders for marginal gains ( been there done it ) .
> we Did some blind taste testing once a t a cafe with niche and a mythos , some Picked the right grinder some didn’t , those that did were singing of night and day results . Then again they were nor looking to buy either of them .
> this in but one opinions amongst a sea of opinions .
> ...


So maybe it is a good idea to begin with standard Mazzer burrs. In this way I think I would appreciate (or can see the differente) in case I change to SSPs one day.


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Rhys said:


> The doserless kit has a metal cap with a hole in it. You can give it a blast with a rocket blower from the top. The removable chute on the front (attached with magnets) also has a hole so you can blast the outlet to blow the coffee out. Basically what you put in comes out (after retention).
> 
> I'm not saying the Niche is bad btw. I've got one of the original early bird ones and it's great for milky drinks etc.
> I did however unfairly do a comparison between it, my Custom Versalab M3 and an EK43 with Turkish burrs. Using the same coffee with all 3 dialled in it was pretty much bass, middle and treble. All three cups were enjoyable though which is the main thing, but for different reasons. I ended up selling the EK as at the time I wasn't enjoying the thinner brighter shots. My Major has always been in the background though. I did try it against the M3 the other day and maybe perceived more clarity with the M3 but tbh it's an unfair comparison as a) the Mazzer should have a hopper on with beans in to stop popcorning and a more uniform grind, and b) the customise Versalab is pretty much at the boutique end as its been fetled by Frank of Titus fame compared to stock. For my tastes I would be happy if I'd never tried the M3 and only ever used the Mazzer (which ended up costing me naff all).


Thank you for the explanation. I think I am gonna go for MSJ, and maybe in some time change it to SSPs then another grinder with bigger burrs. I found two local deals on the second hand ones. This is the videos on the first one (waiting for the second seller's video). I appreciate if you could take a look at the videos in the link and let me know what do you think. specially about the bearing. In the last seconds of the second video you can see how the burrs slow down and stop after being turned off.


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Rhys said:


> The doserless kit has a metal cap with a hole in it. You can give it a blast with a rocket blower from the top. The removable chute on the front (attached with magnets) also has a hole so you can blast the outlet to blow the coffee out. Basically what you put in comes out (after retention).
> 
> I'm not saying the Niche is bad btw. I've got one of the original early bird ones and it's great for milky drinks etc.
> I did however unfairly do a comparison between it, my Custom Versalab M3 and an EK43 with Turkish burrs. Using the same coffee with all 3 dialled in it was pretty much bass, middle and treble. All three cups were enjoyable though which is the main thing, but for different reasons. I ended up selling the EK as at the time I wasn't enjoying the thinner brighter shots. My Major has always been in the background though. I did try it against the M3 the other day and maybe perceived more clarity with the M3 but tbh it's an unfair comparison as a) the Mazzer should have a hopper on with beans in to stop popcorning and a more uniform grind, and b) the customise Versalab is pretty much at the boutique end as its been fetled by Frank of Titus fame compared to stock. For my tastes I would be happy if I'd never tried the M3 and only ever used the Mazzer (which ended up costing me naff all).


I received the video of the second grinder. Do you have any opinion about which one is in a better condition?


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

To compare the state of these two SJs:

Link to the video of the first grinder:


http://imgur.com/a/UEWI6xW


Link to the video of the second grinder:


http://imgur.com/a/fHDk4dL


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Here's mine to compare noises.






I think I did a vid ages ago with an SJ which had knackered bearings.
There's very little difference in height btw between an SJ and a Major with the hoppers off.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Here's my old SJ
When I turn it off you can hear the bearings grating. They were knackered.









SJ 2







youtube.com


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Rhys said:


> Here's my old SJ
> When I turn it off you can hear the bearings grating. They were knackered.
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate the videos. Thank you!
Based on the comparison, I think both of them are better than the old SJ videos and worse than the Major.
I bought the first one and I am waiting for it to arrive. The deal was too sweet to go woth the other one, and not mich of the difference. I am gonna open it and take a look at the state of the bearings.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Ashhszd said:


> I appreciate the videos. Thank you!
> Based on the comparison, I think both of them are better than the old SJ videos and worse than the Major.
> I bought the first one and I am waiting for it to arrive. The deal was too sweet to go woth the other one, and not mich of the difference. I am gonna open it and take a look at the state of the bearings.


Not a hard job to replace bearings. Just need to strip the grinder and put it in an oven to expand the case. The motor will drop out then.

I managed to buy the SJ and Major for £60 from a cafe that'd closed down. The SJ had seized collar, knackered bearings and worn burrs. Managed to unseize the collar and clean it up (solid coffee oils) also bought a new set of burrs for about £25. The Major was advertised as not working.. The light came on but that's it. Bloke selling them didn't know the hopper had to be attached... Sold the SJ so the Major cost me nowt in the end. Bonus was the Major has Ti burrs 😁


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## Ashhszd (10 mo ago)

Rhys said:


> Not a hard job to replace bearings. Just need to strip the grinder and put it in an oven to expand the case. The motor will drop out then.
> 
> I managed to buy the SJ and Major for £60 from a cafe that'd closed down. The SJ had seized collar, knackered bearings and worn burrs. Managed to unseize the collar and clean it up (solid coffee oils) also bought a new set of burrs for about £25. The Major was advertised as not working.. The light came on but that's it. Bloke selling them didn't know the hopper had to be attached... Sold the SJ so the Major cost me nowt in the end. Bonus was the Major has Ti burrs 😁


Woww what a nice deal you got!! I have my eyes on a deal on Major.
I paid 70 Euros for the SJ.

I never replaced a bearing and I am a little bit short on tools, but I am gonna give it a try. I've been reading the forums to have a general idea. I imagine it is gonna make more sense when I the grinder arrives so I can see what is what!


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