# "The Single" by IMS - single filter basket - used one?



## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Anyone used one of these funky looking things? Seems to be a good idea if you fancy a single but don't fancy the faff of changing grind to work with a regular single basket?


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Wouldn't use anything other than VST or Strada baskets - too much imprecision with stamped baskets.

When people order a single (hardly ever), I just use my one spouted portafilter and split it.

JP


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

There are some posts on this on the Londinium blog and a good discussion in their forum.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

jjprestidge said:


> Wouldn't use anything other than VST or Strada baskets - too much imprecision with stamped baskets.
> 
> JP


I think Strada baskets are by VST.

IMS is a quality basket supplier and is considered a direct competitor to VST. Actually some people here prefer IMS to VST.

IMS also makes some very nice quality shower heads.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I still don't get how when headroom makes a difference you can have a precision basket with such wide doses recommended

Given they may be easier to get coffee porn extractions from using a naked pf

Pretty doesn't always equal tasty. I can get great naked pours from stock baskets doesn't mean they taste as good to me .

In my experience they don't measure as well in terms of the extraction yield and taste compared to a vst bakset. Preference and opinion only though


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Hold on guys - the discussion has gone way off topic here.... it's not a VST/IMS/Strada/LM basket discussion... The OP asked about "The Single", which is IMS's new basket for producing a single shot but without the need to change grind, you just dose less into a weird dish shaped basket, with a small group of holes.

So - no, I've not used one... and don't do singles.... but it looks like an interesting idea.

http://londiniumespresso.com/download/the_singlepdf


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

charris said:


> I think Strada baskets are by VST.
> 
> IMS is a quality basket supplier and is considered a direct competitor to VST. Actually some people here prefer IMS to VST.
> 
> IMS also makes some very nice quality shower heads.


I stand corrected - looks like IMS are laser cut. Don't know anyone in the industry who's using them, though.

Comments regarding singles still stand, however; why not just split a double?

JP


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

MrShades, thanks for getting that back on track! The simple reasons for me wanting to find a single basket that successfully extracts a pleasant balanced single without having to alter the grind are:

1. That sometimes I fancy a small shot late on but don't want to spend the night staring at the ceiling.

2. The Mo-in-Lo likes a single, and it might be nice to see if I can tantalise her tastebuds without blowing her socks off!

3. The wif also likes a milky capp so I might try it out on her.

I've thought about getting a VST 7g basket but then I need to buy a 41mm tamper and probably a tamper guide too - that will get expensive!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jjprestidge said:


> I stand corrected - looks like IMS are laser cut. Don't know anyone in the industry who's using them, though.
> 
> Comments regarding singles still stand, however; why not just split a double?
> 
> JP


For home use it's wasteful. If you are a single drinker that would be half of the coffee you buy down the drain.

I originally toyed with the idea of the LM single when I started out but quickly grew to like the coffee I was making so much as to want a double, or triple!

Hoff - you also likely need to change the grind with the LM single.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Hoffmonkey said:


> Anyone used one of these funky looking things? Seems to be a good idea if you fancy a single but don't fancy the faff of changing grind to work with a regular single basket?


I find it very hard to believe that you wouldn't have to change your grind moving between a double and this. Still, if it's what you're after then pick one up and let us know how you get on, I'd be interested to hear.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> For home use it's wasteful. If you are a single drinker....


....you need to man up. What are you going to get out a single? 14g max? Hardly worth the effort.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Don't the italians use a 1:3 ratio quite a bit?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Hoffmonkey said:


> Don't the italians use a 1:3 ratio quite a bit?


And their coffee is really good....


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

I just fancied trying something with a bit less kick when time is ticking on late and I know I will want some shut eye at some point...


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

jjprestidge said:


> Comments regarding singles still stand, however; why not just split a double?


This might well make sense to you and your business as run in this country, but you shouldn't ignore that a single basket makes a lot of sense to many other people.

Frankly it is hard enough to get a good coffee anywhere, but the moment you ask for a single (as I always do) even the best seem to get it wrong. It is just plain laziness.

Anyway, I almost exclusively use a VST 7gm and I'd be interested in trying this.

Does anyone know a retailer that stocks it?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Wando do they not just split a double shot?


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Wando do they not just split a double shot?


Are you asking me if this is what they do in an Italian Bar?

Only if they are serving two customers.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Wando64 said:


> Are you asking me if this is what they do in an Italian Bar?
> 
> Only if they are serving two customers.


No I meant in the UK , if you ask for a single here .


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Anyway, I shouldn't get involved in this type of discussion as what makes sense to your business in the UK has nothing to do to what makes sense to me at home.

Back to the basket, I doubt if it would produce better results than the LM/ VST 7gm which works a real treat for me.

However I would be willing to get one and try for myself if only I could find a retailer.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Wando64 said:


> This might well make sense to you and your business as run in this country, but you shouldn't ignore that a single basket makes a lot of sense to many other people.
> 
> Frankly it is hard enough to get a good coffee anywhere, but the moment you ask for a single (as I always do) even the best seem to get it wrong. It is just plain laziness.
> 
> ...


Bella Barista have the 9.5g version: http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/the-single-1-cup-9-5gr-cup-filter-by-ims.html They also have the 12g version byt they don't mention the 7.5g version.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Wando64 said:


> Anyway, I shouldn't get involved in this type of discussion as what makes sense to your business in the UK has nothing to do to what makes sense to me at home.
> 
> Back to the basket, I doubt if it would produce better results than the LM/ VST 7gm which works a real treat for me.
> 
> However I would be willing to get one and try for myself if only I could find a retailer.


Do you use a 41mm tamper?


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> No I meant in the UK , if you ask for a single here .


Yes. But the whole setup is for a double ristretto and when it gets split in two singles it rarely works.

Maybe I've just been unlucky or I just don't go to the right places.

Thankfully I can pull a decent single at home.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I really enjoy a split double at home

One espresso , one in a cappucino

I pull more along the normale ratio now though

Something about the three sips in the split double , I really like how it breaks up the flavours


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Hoffmonkey said:


> Do you use a 41mm tamper?


Yes, a little Concept-art job.

And a guide I made from a short lenght of pvc pipe.


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Hoffmonkey said:


> Bella Barista have the 9.5g version: http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/the-single-1-cup-9-5gr-cup-filter-by-ims.html They also have the 12g version byt they don't mention the 7.5g version.


I have just ordered the 9.5g version (and a new Motta jug because I couldn't resist it...)

I'll let you know what I think of it.


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

VSTs aren't laser cut and nor are IMS or any other basket I know of - now that would give you a really ragged hole!

They are all formed with a needle press

As far as I know there are only three needle press facilities;

One in Italy (IMS), one in Spain, and the new one in China where VSTs are produced

The quality difference is simply about how tight you want to specify your tolerances - tight tolerances mean a high level of rejects, which still have to be paid for, which drives up the cost. tight tolerances mean fewer pressings from a tool before the wear is sufficient for the pressing to be out of tolerance, and so on - the basic engineering facts of life that run across all manufacturing activities

VST make a song and a dance about their quality control but it is simply known as statistical process control (SPC) and this can be achieved within a number of quality frameworks of which ISO9001 is but one. Not new - worked on an ISO9001 implementation in a manufacturing facility when i was going to university way back in 1991 and it wasnt even that unheard of in manufacturing circles by 1991. The important thing to note is that even within an ISO9001 framework you are still permitted to make absolute crap - all you do is define your process with wide tolerances. as long as what you produce within that process is within the defined tolerance everyone is happy and you will not compromise your ISO9001 certification. indeed it is the customer who tells the manufacturing facility what tolerances they will accept for the job and it is that requirement that drives the cost of the contract. if you pay you get quality, if you don't want to pay you get wide tolerances, all out of the very same facility. its the way it works in manufacturing across the board and applies to brembo brakes, bosch components, electronics, etc, etc, etc: you get what you pay for - most of the big players in all industries offer budget specification (for that is where the volume is and if they ignored it they would go out of business) and ultra high performance (the glamour stuff with high margin but almost always insufficient volume to compensate for the higher margin)

The biggest cost element in the retail price by far however is what you might call the 'brand premium'

VSTs are good. IMS are also good. And there are probably plenty of others too if you get a good one. They all let out of spec baskets slip through now and then so how great your basket is will vary, even if all your baskets have the same logo on them


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

And yes, I think the IMS The Single is superb and I have thrown all my other single baskets away

Why a single basket? Well if you're a purist the way to make a traditional Italian ristretto is with a single basket and a brew weight of about 10g, approximately

I love these traditional ristrettos

The other great thing about The Single is your tamper will function as well as it does on a double basket, which is a huge improvement

Get one - the biggest one available so you've got enough headspace


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

If you want to be picky I understand ristretto was a 7g dose yielding a 7g brew weight, a 1:1 ratio roughly

not much! but fantastic!


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

lespresso said:


> VSTs aren't laser cut and nor are IMS or any other basket I know of - now that would give you a really ragged hole!
> 
> They are all formed with a needle press
> 
> ...


Interesting. Most of the early reviews of VSTs described them as laser cut. I assume then that this is journalistic misunderstanding?

JP


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

VSTs are made in the same facility as the stock baskets we supply with the L1

Don't think for a minute I am saying our baskets are to the same specification as the VST spec - they are not - but the holes in our baskets are still pretty clean and not ragged and are exceptionally forgiving to get people started and building their confidence

I don't have a downer on VSTs, but I'm not going to sit back and let people say they are superior to all other baskets because the good and the great of the coffee world use them

Its true, they do, but do you think it could be in any way correlated to the large number of VST baskets that were given away to high profile players, i.e. WBCs, in the coffee industry to quickly establish beyond doubt that VSTs were the only thing worth owning?

There are other baskets out there that will perform to a high standard and IMS is one such alternative that I have tried - I'm happy to accept people may prefer VSTs, but to suggest that VSTs are the only basket you can produce an exceptional tasting espresso on is at odds with the evidence

Im not in bed with IMS either, i just get irked when hysteria displaces rational thinking


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

if you want to know how rough (i.e. unsuitable) laser cutting is then feel the edges ventilation holes on the back panel of the L1: that is laser cut

laser cutting is OK for what we are using it for, although the finish annoys me a bit on the ventilation holes & i will probably change it to a pressing at some point, but to suggest that laser cutting could be used to create even crude holes in the cheapest of baskets is a non-starter i think

the term 'laser cut' might sound whizz bang, but in reality you are simply using a very narrow high energy beam to burn the metal away - its ok for things like cutting out panels but patently unsuitable for precision work like the holes in an espresso basket i can't imagine how a clean perforation could be achieved with laser cutting - if you examine a laser cut under even low magnification it is quite ragged in engineering terms


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

I am currently experimenting with laser cut coffee beans....









Measuring each grind is a PITA though.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

lespresso said:


> VSTs are made in the same facility as the stock baskets we supply with the L1
> 
> Don't think for a minute I am saying our baskets are to the same specification as the VST spec - they are not - but the holes in our baskets are still pretty clean and not ragged and are exceptionally forgiving to get people started and building their confidence
> 
> ...


Most of the people I know in the industry who use VSTs chose them because they produced better results when tested. I don't think that the fact that they were given to them made any difference, other than raising awareness.

For commercial use I can't see any reason to change, other than a small cost saving with the IMS baskets.

JP


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

just to clarify, which IMS products have you tried?

were any IMS products included in the 'test' that VSTs came out 'best' in?

let me remind you of your first statement in this thread:

*Wouldn't use anything other than VST or Strada baskets - too much imprecision with stamped baskets.*


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

lespresso said:


> just to clarify, which IMS products have you tried?
> 
> were any IMS products included in the 'test' that VSTs came out 'best' in?


You're misunderstanding me - I'm not saying that IMS baskets are any worse than VSTs; I'm just saying that when VST came out with the precision baskets we tried them against what else was available at the time and found them to be better. IMS weren't on our radar then, but I suspect that they weren't available in their current form.

The point I was trying to make is why would I switch? If I were in the market for baskets I might consider IMS now, but they offer no advantage other than being slightly cheaper.

JP


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

so you are unwilling to investigate the possibility that IMS Competizione baskets could give your customers a superior cup of coffee to VST baskets?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

LOTS of people on the forums here have tested a variety of IMS baskets, and lots of useful feedback is posted on here. No clear winner between the 2 but they're certainly interesting. I use an IMS every day and am very happy with it.

I'm with lespresso here, coffee was dire in this country for so long because people couldn't be bothered to try something different or make a change. Surely the exciting thing about coffee right now is the rate of change and new and interesting products and ideas coming to market?


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

marketing is all about creating belief

once a customer 'believes' they decide that product 'A' is the solution for them and they close their eyes to the alternatives until such time as product 'A' fails to meet their needs

VST must be given credit for their first class marketing strategy


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I've been looking to get hold of a "The Single" but haven't found anywhere stocking the right model. Apparently you need the "La Marzocco" model to fit and L1, and that one at Bella Barista isn't the same. Anyone know anywhere that might have it?


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

email me your address & i'll post you one. merry xmas


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

lespresso said:


> so you are unwilling to investigate the possibility that IMS Competizione baskets could give your customers a superior cup of coffee to VST baskets?


They may be worth a try, but I don't see how they offer any clear advantage - looks to be more of the same.

JP


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

aaronb said:


> LOTS of people on the forums here have tested a variety of IMS baskets, and lots of useful feedback is posted on here. No clear winner between the 2 but they're certainly interesting. I use an IMS every day and am very happy with it.
> 
> I'm with lespresso here, coffee was dire in this country for so long because people couldn't be bothered to try something different or make a change. Surely the exciting thing about coffee right now is the rate of change and new and interesting products and ideas coming to market?


There are a million and one things to try out there already. If someone can point out a significant difference between the IMS and VST baskets then I might try them out, but there are other things that make more difference that will take priority in the meantime.

JP


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

jjprestidge said:


> Interesting. Most of the early reviews of VSTs described them as laser cut. I assume then that this is journalistic misunderstanding?


The calibration certificate you get with a VST basket is created using a 'laser engraved data matrix code by the imaging system'.

Bloody misleading 'laser engraving' grammar voodoo!

Anyway, I believe it was a high profile WBC barista who once said, "...You shouldn't even be using another basket because they're all terrible."

I wonder if anyone here has seen how well the ****tamp fits in an IMS basket?

Fantastic insights from lespresso.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

lespresso said:


> email me your address & i'll post you one. merry xmas


lespresso, I've been looking for an Londinium L1 model to go with my IMS La Marzocco fitting "The Single" basket...


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

lespresso said:


> And yes, I think the IMS The Single is superb and I have thrown all my other single baskets away
> 
> Why a single basket? Well if you're a purist the way to make a traditional Italian ristretto is with a single basket and a brew weight of about 10g, approximately
> 
> ...


Thanks for your helpful feedback Reiss, I'm so glad this has turned into a more meaningful discussion than it could have turned out. I'm also glad I didn't go ahead and order a VST single basket because I would have had to have shelled out for a new tamper and probably a tamper guide. Now I only have to buy the basket. You mention getting the biggest one for more headspace - if I'm planning on pulling shots with less than 9g - probably more like 8 - 8.5, do you think I should choose the 9.5g model or 12g model? Could you elaborate a little regarding headspace? FYI, much as I wanted to get my hands on the L1, I ended up going for a Quick Mill Verona DB - Lever is still something that I might go for in future, but I decided to go pump driven for the time being.

Cheers

Dave


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

hi dave

12g, but please understand that this suggestion is based on how it performs on a lever machine - they tend to need a bit more headspace as the low pressure delivery allows the coffee to expand upward a lot more whereas the grunt of a pump just forces the coffee down hard and keeps it away from the screen

for a pump machine it would seem unlikely that IMS wouldn't know the correct target dose to stamp on their own product, not impossible but unlikely

but on a lever you definitely want the 12g version of The Single, even if you intended to dose say 9 or 10g

i was having a think about this thread overnight - another significant difference is going to be what type of stainless steel alloy you are willing to pay for to ensure as clean an edge as possible on the holes, although don't be misled - the unit cost of producing a basket is a fraction of the retail price so if you were to use an alloy that cost twice as much an extra pound would more than cover it


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Thanks Reiss, much appreciated. As I'm not using a lever (yet) I'll grab the 9.5g basket to start with. Cheers! Dave


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Ordered and thanks to the Black Friday deal it means I'll get a free bag of coffee too! (Oh, I had to add an IMS competitione shower screen to get it over £30!)


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

I received the 9.5g today (The single) and my first test wasn't encouraging.

It strangely requires a much, much finer grind than the 7.5g VST, which is surprising as the VST needed a finer grind than the non-VST LM version.

It is also strange because the area with holes is much smaller than in the LM VST single (clearly the holes themselves must be wider).

After a considerable number of sinkers I managed a drinkable espresso, but nowhere as nice as what I can do with the LM/VST basket.

The main problem I am experiencing is channelling and puck breakages from the sides of the basket, where the amount of grind is at its thinnest.

This is a typical problem with stock single baskets, but not an issue ever with the LM/VST.Clearly it needs much more practice and experimentation.

I have increased the dose to 10g and that helped somewhat.

I will experiment with higher doses up to 11g but that seems to defeat the purpose of having a single in the first place.

For comparison I find that the best dose with the LM/VST is 9.5g

Please post your feedback if you have one of these baskets.

I'd be particularly interested if you too experience puck problems at the sides and what you have done to address them.

It might well be all down to my technique not being up to scratch.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

To me it seems surprising that these work at all, I can only imagine the force of the tamp would unevenly land on the edges. I would imagine the style and pressure of tamp must have a greater affect than usual. All complete guesswork obviously, but it is intriguing.

Have you tried an even finer grind and a very light tamp? or is that where you are at already?

Just to be clear as well, are you saying the grind is much finer than a regular double basket? And that their clim of not having to change the grind is way off?


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

I ended up flipping my order from the 9.5 to the 12 - will post my findings. I do hope to be able to downdose to 8.5g but we shall see...


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Dylan said:


> To me it seems surprising that these work at all, I can only imagine the force of the tamp would unevenly land on the edges. I would imagine the style and pressure of tamp must have a greater affect than usual. All complete guesswork obviously, but it is intriguing.
> 
> Have you tried an even finer grind and a very light tamp? or is that where you are at already?
> 
> Just to be clear as well, are you saying the grind is much finer than a regular double basket? And that their clim of not having to change the grind is way off?


I got to the point of a much finer grind compared to my usual set-up which is for the VST 7g.

Tamp is a normal pressure, but i had to give up on nutating as I couldn't make it work here.

I have not tried this grind with the double ( I don't use the double basket almost at all) but I would suspect it is fine enough to produce just a tight ristretto in 25 to 30 secs.

For comparison, when I occasionally used the double basket with the previous grind it would give me two short normale in 30 secs.


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Hoffmonkey said:


> I ended up flipping my order from the 9.5 to the 12 - will post my findings. I do hope to be able to downdose to 8.5g but we shall see...


I actually wished I looked around for a 7.5g

I not sure how it would be possible to under-dose this basked and get a uniform extraction.

Looking forward to other people's experience.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mine arrives soon so will give some feedback here


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> Mine arrives soon so will give some feedback here


I hope you will try this with a pump machine too?


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

Ok, it's on a lever but I find it easier to use than all the other single baskets I had

You won't be able to nutate and I'm not sure why you would need to as there is a lot less coffee

Why there is an expectation that you wouldn't have to change your grind from another manufacturer's basket I'm not quite sure

The claim from IMS is that you don't have to change grind from an IMS double basket to an IMS The Single basket and you can use the same tamper


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

lespresso said:


> View attachment 10489
> 
> 
> Ok, it's on a lever but I find it easier to use than all the other single baskets I had
> ...


Out of curiosity do you use a flat tamper or a convex one?

I have a feeling that convex would work better with this basket, but I don't have one to try.


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

hi there

i use a flat tamper (58.50mm)

you will be able to get a 58.80mm in this basket if you have one

kind regards

reiss.


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

I know absolutely nothing about your pump machine

But if I was you I'd try a sneaky 1 or 2 second run of the pump, then off, wait say 8 seconds, then turn it back on and complete the shot

This might allow you to pre-infuse

Just an idea


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

I've now used "the single" for a few days and unfortunately I must report that, in my hands and with my machine, this basket does not work as well as the single LM/VST 7g.

I have eliminated (mostly anyway) the channelling problems. The extraction looks good, but the resulting espresso is just not even close to what I can get with the LM/VST 7g.

Anyway, it was always going to be a tough call to beat the LM/VST as I am getting consistent and very repeatable quality espresso with it.

"the single" is definitely an improvement on the stock single basket but if you are interested in making a good single espresso (a rarity here, I know) without throwing away half of you coffee splitting a double, I wholeheartedly recommend you put some effort in learning how to make best use of a VST 7g basket with a 41mm tamper. The rewards are well worth it.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Does your Auber PID offer you the chance to pre-infuse? I'm wondering if the puck is getting destroyed a bit by full pressure hitting it straight away?


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Hoffmonkey said:


> Does your Auber PID offer you the chance to pre-infuse? I'm wondering if the puck is getting destroyed a bit by full pressure hitting it straight away?


No preinfusion with my PID.

This is has never been an issue with any other basket I use, including the VST 7g.

In any case, I am now able to do a clean extraction with this basket.

The results are not terrible, just not up to what I can do with the VST which I just can't fault.


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## lespresso (Aug 29, 2008)

whilst i get on well with The Single on my setup and really like it, I'm totally cool with your post; you've tried a product and you decided you prefer something else. to me that's a solid post. cheers!


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Mine arrived yesterday but I didn't have a chance to play with it... I'll see how it does when I get a chance.


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## AL3XTUDOR (Nov 17, 2014)

I think its VST all the way!


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

In my experience in Italian coffee bars, the standard order is for "un caffè" (for us that translates as a single espresso). The barista then pulls a double-spouted shot and gives you the product of one of the spouts. The other is either used for another customer or abandoned. I don't recall ever seeing a single spout used.


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