# Espresso flows in 10 sec



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

Dear all,

I recently bought a pre-owned (approx. 5 years old) Silvia alongside a Rocky grinder after having used the Sage Bambino for a while.

Granted, I am not the best at understanding the coffee procedures, but for the life of my, I cannot seem to get great espresso out of this thing.

I've bought some fairly cheap espresso beans (dark roast) to get it to work and so far, my approach is the following:

I aim for 18 grams in, 36-38 grams out. However, I hit maybe 50-60 grams of liquid if I go anywhere near 20 seconds.

I've uploaded a short video, in which you may see the espresso flow:


http://imgur.com/lCeqDJH


... and one where you may see the water flow:


http://imgur.com/QeZkBSV


I grind as fine as the Rocky allows me to do, (I've calibrated and cleaned it). Below, you may find pictures of my grounds.

Do you have any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? Do I need to adjust the over pressure valve? Do the grounds look okay? Am I tamping wrong?

Best regards,

Niels


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

nknknknk said:


> I've bought some fairly cheap espresso beans (dark roast)


 When were these beans roasted?


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@nknknknk hi Niels, having looked at the coffee flow I thought that you're grinding too fine coarse, but the water flow by itself seems way too fast. I am not a Silvia expert, but presumably that's what a 15 bar flow looks like, unsure if it can be easily modded down to 9-ish bar. Other than that, as David said, could be the beans..


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Problem is clearly visible in the tamped picture - grind is way too coarse. Rocky should be capable of grinding for espresso - perhaps the calibration needs to be revisited. Dull burrs won't help but my money is on calibration.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

As Tsk says, but to expand. When the water is forced through the puck, the less resistance (coarser the grind) the faster that the coffee is able to leave the puck. Quite simply, if you cn, tighten the grind. For espresso, it wants to be the consistency of flour with no granules


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

Thank you to the three of you! I've tried an array of beans, some (expensive ones) being roasted two weeks ago, some (cheap) being roasted two months ago. Neither of the beans make a huge difference in flow. @The Systemic Kid this is the finest that the Rocky will go. How do I calibrate it to go finer?


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

@dfk41 I don't believe I am able to tighten the grind further. Is it a possibility to tamp harder? I am surprised if the Rocky is not able to grind espresso-fine.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Have taken a section picture of your tamped grinds - you can see shed loads of boulders which won't offer any resistance to the water pressure during extraction. If your Rocky can't go any finer - it won't work for espresso.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@nknknknk your coffee is not ground fine enough, the videos clearly show this, they don't show channeling as a cause for the rapid flow


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@nknknknk sorry I clearly meant too coarse 😅


----------



## EmmaC (Jan 17, 2021)

I used a Rocky with a Silvia for the last couple of years. You should be able to get an excellent espresso, don't worry!

As others have said, it looks like you're grinding too coarse. I found that my grinder was usually set between 6 and 8, depending on the beans. What is your dial set to?


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

Baffo said:


> @nknknknk sorry I clearly meant too coarse 😅


 That makes more sense - thanks for clearing that up!

So what I'm getting from this, is that my grinder is not up to its task. Do you all suggest new burrs, calibration, or a new grinder entirely?


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

EmmaC said:


> I used a Rocky with a Silvia for the last couple of years. You should be able to get an excellent espresso, don't worry!
> 
> I found that my grinder was usually set between 6 and 8, depending on the beans. What is your dial set to?


 Well, I attempted to calibrate it yesterday, and I believe it is at its finest setting. That also means that the numbers don't exactly match anymore, but I was in that lower area as well.


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Can you get the burrs to touch?


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

nknknknk said:


> Well, I attempted to calibrate it yesterday, and I believe it is at its finest setting. That also means that the numbers don't exactly match anymore, but I was in that lower area as well.


 Ignore number settings - they are only a guide. As BlacCatCoffee suggests, are you able to get the burrs to chirp point during calibration? Chirp point is where the burrs touch. This is effectively zero setting - you need to take care obviously not to damage the burrs but you need to be able to set the zero point to where the burrs stop chirping.


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Can you get the burrs to touch?


 @BlackCatCoffee & @The Systemic Kid This might be the issue! Even though the top cap (I don't know if that is the proper name, but the golden part) is completely tight, the burrs move freely. What can be done to amend this?

See video: https://i.imgur.com/arX3uun.mp4


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

If you are not able to turn the top burr carrier further it is possible it has some coffee stuck in the threads.

See this video on cleaning and recalibration.


----------



## 28267 (Dec 8, 2020)

@nknknknk - as per @BlackCatCoffee response above, go through that guide to calibration.

(Removed comment about hopper as I can see you've removed that) the burrs should screw down all the way so you can't turn it, so something is blocking it. Coffee oil/debris may have clogged the thread.

The way the hopper fits on means the numbers tend to be fairly random on a Rocky unless you have gone through that calibration.

Until Tuesday I'd been using a Rocky for the last 17 years without an issue, with both Silvia and Silva Pro, there shouldn't be any issues with it grinding fine enough. It is based on the MD40 commercial expresso grinder so unless the burrs are knackered it is up to the job.


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

@BlackCatCoffee @AdG I just cleaned the grinder thoroughly, but I was still not able to make the burrs meet. I went by the local coffee professional and he's going to have a look at it. The burrs themselves look fine, and he's going to call in his technician friend to have a glance.

After showing him my videos, he puts more weight on pressure issues than my grind size (which he suspects to be only a little off).

How do I determine whether I am building the right pressure? I've got a pressure gauge, but it leaks slightly and shows a pressure of 4 bars.

What is the water flow supposed to look like? Where do I go from here?


----------



## 28267 (Dec 8, 2020)

@nknknknk - strange it should just screw down until they touch unless there is something jamming the thread/blocking it.

From experience of Rocky even being off a couple of stops could result in it being way too fast and your grinds do look large compared to what I would expect. Any chance of borrowing a grinder from your local pro, or getting a little ground slightly finer by them to see if that is the issue?

Running too fast would imply the pressure was too high, 4 bar is low I'd expect about 9/10 with a blind filter in. If you want to check the pressure it might be worth seeing if the forum one is available and would fit, details of who has it, rules etc etc. are in the Pay It Forward page.


----------



## nknknknk (Mar 11, 2021)

AdG said:


> @nknknknk - strange it should just screw down until they touch unless there is something jamming the thread/blocking it.
> 
> From experience of Rocky even being off a couple of stops could result in it being way too fast and your grinds do look large compared to what I would expect. Any chance of borrowing a grinder from your local pro, or getting a little ground slightly finer by them to see if that is the issue?
> 
> Running too fast would imply the pressure was too high, 4 bar is low I'd expect about 9/10 with a blind filter in. If you want to check the pressure it might be worth seeing if the forum one is available and would fit, details of who has it, rules etc etc. are in the Pay It Forward page.


 I think my next step would be to ask them for some pre-ground coffee to work with. Thanks for the tip on the Pay It Forward page! I'll give it a look!


----------



## ejnovachrono (Mar 15, 2021)

Have exactly the same problem, and struggling to find a solution.


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

What coffee machine and what grinder, how fresh / old are the beans ?


----------

