# Coffee Roasting business - Do's & Dont's?



## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

I'd like to kick off with coffee roasting business. What is your advice?


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## Dartmoor Coffee (Feb 4, 2020)

Be interesting to see what people say. What kind of business are you wanting to start and what kind of advice are you looking for?


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Be interesting to see what people say. What kind of business are you wanting to start and what kind of advice are you looking for?


 I'm considering coffee roasting and online distribution. I've been roasting at home for a while now and I'm pretty confident of scaling it up. 
As long as I'm not concerned about the roasting I have few blank pages when it comes to: 
- how to reach your customers?
- how to stand out amongst competitiors?
- good I've got my roaster, I've roasted good coffee. What's next?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Where are you based?


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## Dartmoor Coffee (Feb 4, 2020)

Personally start local via Facebook, local farmers markets and friends. As you grow then expand.

Standing out amongst can be hard. It's a crowded market. The most important is quality and consistency. I've got a friend who gets coffee from me since he thinks what I do is better than where he used to get it (a national company), but I'm under know illusion that he would go back if quality dropped. After that people might be concerned with environmental issues like recyclable bags, etc. You then have the likes of branding, labelling of bags for clear information is all important.

What roaster do you have? What about grinder? After that it is getting bags, heat sealer, labelling and postage boxes sorted. Oh yes don't forget about insurance.

Honestly it takes a lot of time. effort and also money.

Phil.


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> Where are you based?


 Hi Dave, I'm currently in Sheffield


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Personally start local via Facebook, local farmers markets and friends. As you grow then expand.
> 
> Standing out amongst can be hard. It's a crowded market. The most important is quality and consistency. I've got a friend who gets coffee from me since he thinks what I do is better than where he used to get it (a national company), but I'm under know illusion that he would go back if quality dropped. After that people might be concerned with environmental issues like recyclable bags, etc. You then have the likes of branding, labelling of bags for clear information is all important.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Phil, great advice. I only roast at home for my personal/family/friends use. If I will decide to go for a punt then I will look at 5kg second hand Probats likely. Other equipment is a subject to budgeting.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Voocash It's an area of high population density, so perhaps you can start locally, get the word out use Facebook other social media and see if people will come to you to pick up coffee. Some very successful takeaways actually started that way and I don't see why food would be any different to coffee.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Voocash - if memory serves me right, you started roasting on the Gene Cafe 101, modded. Is the Gene your main roaster currently?


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> @Voocash It's an area of high population density, so perhaps you can start locally, get the word out use Facebook other social media and see if people will come to you to pick up coffee. Some very successful takeaways actually started that way and I don't see why food would be any different to coffee.


 Thanks Dave, I was thinking about it but I was wondering if I need to setup a formal business first, possibly not (?)


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Voocash - if memory serves me right, you started roasting on the Gene Cafe 101, modded. Is the Gene your main roaster currently?


 Yes indeed. I use my Gene for now. Having satisfactory results nowdays, at least up to my standards


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Voocash said:


> Thanks Dave, I was thinking about it but I was wondering if I need to setup a formal business first, possibly not (?)


 I couldn't possibly comment, but a very successful businessman man said something to me I've never forgotten and others have said something very similar.

"If I had asked permission every time I wouldn't be where I am today, because I'd have never got started"

Make of it what you will


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

Thanks Dave.

By the way are there any cupping events or roasting events happening in the UK? If not any time soon, maybe there is something on a horizon towards after lockdowns easing?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Voocash said:


> Thanks Dave.
> 
> By the way are there any cupping events or roasting events happening in the UK? If not any time soon, maybe there is something on a horizon towards after lockdowns easing?


 Dunno, I never attend such things.....

I always think it would be great if one of the forum advertisers organised a virtual cupping tasting event......I think that would be fun.


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## Dartmoor Coffee (Feb 4, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> I always think it would be great if one of the forum advertisers organised a virtual cupping tasting event......I think that would be fun


 That would be fun. I know James Hoffman did a virtual one last year, which I did. Found it very interesting and eye opening and confirmed my suspicions about cupping. Had seen someone else organise one on Facebook, but it wasn't at a time I could attend. May be post pandemic the large wholesalers will do attend cupping sessions.

Getting a Probat would be a delight, but consider the outlay of costs - they are not cheap.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What about Geissen


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> What about Geissen


 I will check them. I also found Kuban roasters. Their pricing is reasonable imo. e.g. their 5kg roaster for 7,500euro net. 
https://kubancoffeeroasters.com/products/master-roasters?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjYk8TO8t0lG2QVO42IasKrKn-BLXy9Kqx1ipx8g4xftga9xk4-Ez3saAnoSEALw_wcB

Also I found one Polish manufacturer of roasters https://coffed.pl/product/sr5-automatic/ however prices for manual one start from 17,5k euro
but they have second hands in offer, Probat LE5 (10k euro).

Still a long way to go so perhaps I will move on to something smaller like Dalian or 3kg roaster to get the feel and practice before jumping onto something larger.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Voocash said:


> I will check them. I also found Kuban roasters. Their pricing is reasonable imo. e.g. their 5kg roaster for 7,500euro net.
> https://kubancoffeeroasters.com/products/master-roasters?gclid=Cj0KCQiAv6yCBhCLARIsABqJTjYk8TO8t0lG2QVO42IasKrKn-BLXy9Kqx1ipx8g4xftga9xk4-Ez3saAnoSEALw_wcB
> 
> Also I found one Polish manufacturer of roasters https://coffed.pl/product/sr5-automatic/ however prices for manual one start from 17,5k euro
> ...


 The Kuban roaster is a frankly incredible price, I have never heard of them though. I would suggest you go and see a roaster in the flesh before you commit to anything. Coffed I have heard of and they have a good reputation.

The Dalian is a good choice if you are happy to start off with it being a side gig and work up. That is what I did but it soon got very tedious when I had some bigger wholesale clients.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> The Kuban roaster is a frankly incredible price, I have never heard of them though. I would suggest you go and see a roaster in the flesh before you commit to anything. Coffed I have heard of and they have a good reputation.
> 
> The Dalian is a good choice if you are happy to start off with it being a side gig and work up. That is what I did but it soon got very tedious when I had some bigger wholesale clients.


 I'd echo @BlackCatCoffee comments. Good roasters are not cheap and it's better to get one that's well known as it's the *heart* of your business.

The Geisen W6A https://www.giesencoffeeroasters.eu/w6-series/ Is a great roaster but will set you back 25K ish I think.

Starting with a Dalian 1kg is a good way to find out if you have a business, but the minute you are roasting 3 days a week 7 hours per day is the time to step back and say, OK I need a bigger roaster. The way to size a roaster is whether it can deal with the current business and future projected business over a 3 year period roasting 7 hours per day 3 days per week. *Stops it being too small or too large*....

*An absolute maximum output per week* for a roaster, before getting a larger one would normally be considered:



1kg roaster = 84 kg


6 kg roaster = 504 kg


Having a roaster that's too large for your business is as bad as having one that's too small.

When I roasted for a while on a 25Kg probat...in 7 hours I could output 700kg of roasted coffee!...and it still all has to be packed.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

The other thing I forgot to mention but is *SO *important is aftersales care and servicing. If there is not a good reputable dealer in the UK I would be very wary as finding someone to work on an unusual roaster and getting spare parts could quickly become very expensive and potentially cost you wholesale contracts if you can't deliver.

I have no doubt you have thought about this but I know how tempting some of these lower cost options can be when starting out!


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## Voocash (Jan 16, 2020)

Wow chaps, great insights. I will surely keep it in mind while moving forward and update your on the progress!


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## Dartmoor Coffee (Feb 4, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> The Dalian is a good choice if you are happy to start off with it being a side gig and work up. That is what I did but it soon got very tedious when I had some bigger wholesale clients


 Hi @BlackCatCoffee, What roaster do you use now? Thanks


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Hi @BlackCatCoffee, What roaster do you use now? Thanks


 We use a Golden GR5. Made in Turkey. We purchased it through their UK agent. It has been extremely reliable and we have had a lot of coffee through it now.

I think we will be looking for something bigger before the year is out though. Possibly even another Golden but there are a number I have my eye on.


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## Dartmoor Coffee (Feb 4, 2020)

Just looking at @Beeroclock youtube video running through his 1.5kg GR1. Looks good.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Just looking at @Beeroclock youtube video running through his 1.5kg GR1. Looks good.


 They are decent machines. The BT thermocouple is not in a good spot though. Once you learn though it doesn't matter all that much.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

I don't use the stock TC's

I have a K-Type bent in through one of the sight glass holes with and I have drilled and tapped a hole in the bean door for my RTD.

Cheers Phil


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

I built a temporary door and used a 500g load to determine the correct location.

The Door was relatively easy to drill out.

The Golden uses Varvel gearboxes and Nerimotori motors which are easily sourced in the UK. I had to replace one of the gearboxes - got it next day delivered. Fitted it myself - took 30mins.

Cheers Phil


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Looks good. I have been considering moving the probe in mine at some point but it always gets pushed down the list.

I just don't know why they put it in such an odd spot at the factory.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Bottom line is that the stock probes are very thick and durable and are connected to the overheat cut out failsafe - so I think they have taken a pragmatic approach. 
The problem with 2 and 3mm probes is that they are easily damaged.

It's pretty easy to rig the Golden up to get decent ET, MET and BT readings though.


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