# New grinder..



## MichaelSmith81 (Nov 20, 2012)

After 18 months without an upgrade Idecided to get my dream home grinder, Mahlkonig K30 Air. Mainly because of its compact size. All that is required is one of the following, Slayer single group, La Marzocco GS3 or KVDW Speedster. Unfortunately one of these will have to wait...

I just need to modify the hopper to fit under my kitchen cabinets.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Congratulations! It will be well worth the wait!! A top grinder!! Can u just take the hopper off and single dose...?


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## coyote (May 23, 2014)

I had also dream about GS3..its really excellent machine..but trust me nothing spectacular,or much much better than you have..enjoy your setup because coffee is better because of you (and crew here,not machine


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## MichaelSmith81 (Nov 20, 2012)

Nod said:


> Congratulations! It will be well worth the wait!! A top grinder!! Can u just take the hopper off and single dose...?


Yes it does work without the hopper fitted, I alway use in barista mode, and always weigh beans in. The big difference is I only get 0.5g retention from what I put in compared to the jolly 1.5g. The fist couple shots were about 0.8-1.0g.

I don't think there will be an upgrade until I get a house/kitchen upgrade. But we all need to have things to dream about..


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Having owned a GS3, I am sorry to say that they are absolutely unspectacular when it comes to making coffee. No doubt all you bods who have not owned one, will tell me how wrong I am, but, such is life!


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## MichaelSmith81 (Nov 20, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Having owned a GS3, I am sorry to say that they are absolutely unspectacular when it comes to making coffee. No doubt all you bods who have not owned one, will tell me how wrong I am, but, such is life!


What machine are you running now? The thing is there isn't a lot wrong with the coffee the r58 does, especially with the attention I put into it and the low volume output for home use.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MichaelSmith81 said:


> What machine are you running now? The thing is there isn't a lot wrong with the coffee the r58 does, especially with the attention I put into it and the low volume output for home use.


That's a very good question and I will try to answer it. I am a lever lover so have a QuickMill Veloce, but the question is why? I have lays believed, that if you had a barista behind a curtain with half a dozen of the most popular home machines, all being E61 variants, no one would know which was which. They are all basically the same innards with a different case, so why should the coffee vary widely. Once you start to bring in features like pre infusion or ramping then yes, I accept there will be differences. So, people but a machine based on the garbage others spout out because it is shiny and a big step up from where they are now.

The GS has a few features to differentiate it, like set pre infusion and the supposed saturated group head, but in the time I had one, I found it distinctively average, apart from ownership experience. If you want to believe your GS makes a superior cuppa, then it probably does. The thing is though, most of these bells and whistles are just emulating the way a lever works but with a pump......so why bother? The best shot the Vesuvius makes emulates a lever profile (yes, I have had one of those as well). The best cuppa I consistently produce is on a lever machine. There are very well documented reasons for this. I also prefer darker roasted beans and have the palate of a tin of tuna fish.

So, does your rocket make as good a cuppa as a GS3. More than likely. Does a GS3 make as good a cuppa as a decent lever.......never in a million years. Michael, keep your Rocket unless you want to move to the silent world of plumbed in levers!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> There are very well documented reasons for this.


Cool, where can we read this documentation?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Vesuvius is capable of making very tasty espresso without a lever profile also .

It's not a lever replicating pump machine , if your using it just as such then your kinda not getting the most from it .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Out they come to play! Why is it then that the extra features top end machines all have, come from a lever. For clarity, I mean pre infusion and pressure profiling?

Boots, I did not say the V was not capable. I said it seemed that it was at its best when replicating a lev shot with a reducing profile!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bored now .....enjoy the k30 grinder OP

OP Your three dream machines are significantly different to produce different but all tasty result in the cup . .

Not had the pleasure of shots from a speedster , I'm sure they are lovely though .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Out of respect to the OP, I gave an answer to a question. it is not my fault if others join in and take the debate away from the point. Have I said anything untrue?


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## MichaelSmith81 (Nov 20, 2012)

I didn't want this post to get into a debate, I am am obviously interested in feedback on potential new machines (good/bad). I wouldn't spent that amount of money without doing my research and tasting espresso shots from all. I am also in no state to make that change at the moment, if and when I do make the leap to upgrade my machine I would like more control over pre infusion and would like some form of pressure profile control for extraction.

I will just enjoy the setup I have for now...


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

having had the gs3 mp on my bench for a few weeks now, I can whole heartedly say that it is much better than any rocket, the features on it surpass almost all the other compact dual boilers out there. The saturated group is rock solid on temp stability, it has options for preinfusion, the steam wand is one of the best I have ever used, the cold feed into the hot water is brilliant (no spluttering as with most other machines!) The shots produced (bearing in mind mine does have the strada conversion kit on it, are really good. Is it worth the additional expense? well that is for the end user to decide. my orientation is lever machines and this would not replace my L1, but it is very good.


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Coffeechap speaking of machines on benches wasn't you supposed to do a review of the Veloce ? Or have I missed it


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

did not do a review of the veloce as the one I had had issues which I believe have now been rectified.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi OP: if you have the std 1.5Kg hopper am sure have seen a smaller 500g hopper mentioned in a K30 brochure here:

http://www.mokkahouse.dk/images/Hopper%20500g%20for%20K30.pdf

Although for the ES and vario may be worth an ask if will also fit the air variant and looks to be substantially smaller.

Hope of help

John


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> That's a very good question and I will try to answer it. I am a lever lover so have a QuickMill Veloce, but the question is why? I have lays believed, that if you had a barista behind a curtain with half a dozen of the most popular home machines, all being E61 variants, no one would know which was which. They are all basically the same innards with a different case, so why should the coffee vary widely.


Are the GS3, Speedster and Slayer, E61 (HX) brew head variants?

What about the 1.5k-2k (compact) double boilers? I think some are but some are not.

I was under the impressions that some of the double boilers use a different system to the E61 HX brew head.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Gs3 is saturated groups not e61 and is a dual boiler.

Speedster is a kees group design I think based on a saturated group , I'm unsure though

They both work pre infusion in different ways to each other ,neither are e61.

Slayer is a one group and dual boiler but the way it preheats and feeds its steam boiler is different i think and Its not an e61 design. The v3 group again has " pre brew " function and is its own design.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Gs3 is saturated groups not e61 and is a dual boiler.
> 
> Speedster is a kees group design I think based on a saturated group , I'm unsure though
> 
> ...


Yeah, speedster is a saturated group, in fact the original 10 (or whatever it was) had la marzocco groups I think.


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