# Small Footprint Grinder



## Macca (Aug 29, 2016)

Hi All,

Hoping for some advice with a new grinder for the home setup. Currently have Compak K6 for espresso with my Gaggia Classic, but she's a little on the larger size* and I'm keen to reclaim some space in the kitchen.

I'm looking for a grinder with a smaller footprint and can fit under my counter top, so around 400mm in max height. I don't use it heavily, perhaps 5-8 doubles a week and single dose preferable. Price range ideally around the £150-£300 bracket, but I've some flex in there. Definitely more interested in the quality of what it produces over the looks.

From what I can see, Eureka Mignon and Mazzer SJ seem to fit that criteria, but really open to any advice. What would you pick if you were in my shoes? Cheers!

*the grinder, not my better half.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Macca said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Hoping for some advice with a new grinder for the home setup. Currently have Compak K6 for espresso with my Gaggia Classic, but she's a little on the larger size* and I'm keen to reclaim some space in the kitchen.
> 
> ...


Hi, did you consider the Niche Zero? Failing that, an Eureka Mignon will do the trick.


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## Macca (Aug 29, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi, did you consider the Niche Zero? Failing that, an Eureka Mignon will do the trick.


I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it. I'ts a beautiful looking grinder but the £500 price tag might be a bit of a stretch for me. Any reviews?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Macca said:


> I'd never heard of it until you mentioned it. I'ts a beautiful looking grinder but the £500 price tag might be a bit of a stretch for me. Any reviews?


Yes.

There's a member here who has contributed immensely on the design on espresso machines and grinders. This member also reviewed the Niche as a prototype, and gave the feedback to them. He actually has a prototype version which as currently gone through 900 doubles... and he rates it.

Have a search on this forum and find out more.

I understand it's not yet out, but there are a lot of us on this forum who have backed the project - including me - and are waiting for the first production units to be delivered.

If you want to go for something more solid: Eureka Mignon, all the way. Bout like a tank (not sure about the newer versions) but get from Bella Barista as their customer service and 2 year warranty is legendary.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You can still pick one up from Indiegogo for £440 - but note that afaik Niche have not given any type of assurances that they would offer a manufacturers warranty on IGG purchases, so it may be best to wait until it hits retail and pay the £500. You will also be waiting until September for it.

That said, the prototype DavecUK reviewed punches well above its weight being easier to use and grinding as well as grinders 3-4x its price.


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## Bolta (May 11, 2014)

For 5-8 doubles a week, you might consider a manual grinder. Kinu M47 is rock solid and is within your budget.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Bolta said:


> For 5-8 doubles a week, you might consider a manual grinder. Kinu M47 is rock solid and is within your budget.


Or the new MBK Feldgrind 47mm?

Had a Kinu M68 before, really rate the Kinu range.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Macca said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Hoping for some advice with a new grinder for the home setup. Currently have Compak K6 for espresso with my Gaggia Classic, but she's a little on the larger size* and I'm keen to reclaim some space in the kitchen.
> 
> ...


Seriously consider the Niche, I feel it's 63mm conical Mazzer Kony burrs will produce much better grind quality than your K6, it's hugely smaller, totally kitchen friendly, has waaay less retention (to the point of being negligible), what you put in (it's a single doser), you will get out within about +/- 0.07g most of the time (0.07 isn't a typo). Work-flow is super easy. Don't let the price put you off....because it's exactly what you need it's a step up in all areas over your current grinder, for less money. The only thing you got with the Compaq, is the ability to hand the grinder to your son, as long as you put new burrs on it a few times. With the Niche after 25-30 years when the burrs are worn out, you could replace the, burrs, motor, bearings, chamber floor, all in about 10 minutes.....or you could simply buy another Niche for your son.


Compak K6 burr life 400kg, replacement recommended at 350kg

Niche - Burr life 750kg, replacement recommended at 750kg


The only thing your Compak has that the Niche doesn't, it's built heavy for the abuses of commercial use...but that in effect is well over-engineered for the home and that over-engineering is not about grind quality. I mean did you really want a big hopper and a doser?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

400mm is tight. A mazzer mini with the weighing in lens hood mod could just about be used within 400mm. It comes out at 360mm. The Ceado E6 range is probably smaller with the same mod ( could be difficult to do that) and generally small all round but 440mm with a 600g hopper on. It might take the Mazzer 320g hopper and that might reduce the height more. Their 37j grinder takes it.

Ceado used is probably out of your price range given what sellers on Ebay want for them - too much really as often older models so should be SJ prices or less.

The Mignon has been updated recently and a used one of those should be in your price range. Mazzer mini as well, prices for those are rather variable though. It's not a bad idea to be able to see the first 2 digits of Mazzer serial number as that's the year of manufacture.

John

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## Macca (Aug 29, 2016)

From the recommendations here, I hunted down your feedback in the other threads Dave and I'm starting to sway towards it. Browsed your Youtube videos and it looks gorgeous too, just need to see if indigogo purchases come with warranty, if they do I may punt at one this week.

And I'll have you know that I'm very proud of my massive hopper and sizable doser... they both have pride of place in a box in the shed


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Macca said:


> From the recommendations here, I hunted down your feedback in the other threads Dave and I'm starting to sway towards it. Browsed your Youtube videos and it looks gorgeous too, just need to see if indigogo purchases come with warranty, if they do I may punt at one this week.
> 
> And I'll have you know that I'm very proud of my massive hopper and sizable doser... they both have pride of place in a box in the shed


Do you * really* think they won't support their backers?


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

if you cant stretch to the niche, i can recommend the new mignon as having a very small footprint


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Eureka Mignon, this is a real wife friendly grinder.


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## Macca (Aug 29, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Do you * really* think they won't support their backers?


I'd be inclined to think not, but to be fair, Indiegogo and Niche are both brand new to me before today and without wanting to sound too cynical, I try never to make assumptions. So I've contacted them just for peace of mind.

Advice and recommendations from well informed forum members are always a massive help, of course.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jj-x-ray said:


> if you cant stretch to the niche, i can recommend the new mignon as having a very small footprint


I don't think there is any significant difference between the size of earlier and the recently introduced model. It seems that have done something about clumping on the new model or at least one version of it. There is more than one variation now and many many different colours







So you can change grinder to match the kitchen work surfaces etc when those are changed.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

While looking at something else I remembered another very compact grinder. This one

https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/ascaso-i-steel-i1-timer-2596-p.asp

:secret:A certain gent on here gave it a reasonable review unlike the conical which uses a lot of plastic. I have the taller version. It's pretty well put together but just like a number of other grinder I suspect it would benefit from a few turns of plumbers ptfe tape around the adjustment thread as the fit is fairly loose.

This is the review

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/compactgrinder1closerlookv3.pdf

It uses a universal motor and gearbox. The gearbox is done well - plastic helical gears so noise levels aught to be low. They are pretty substantial as well.

Mazzer use springs to get round play in the thread problems. He mentions molycot but I feel the tape will do a much better job







a more advanced dry lubricant really. If that isn't used the grinds are expected to keep the thread pushed up and home. It seems that is true to a certain extent on lots of grinders.

I think that the Vario received some stick at some point due to imparting a strange taste to coffee. I've seen some blind testing somewhere.

John

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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am pretty sure that that the reviewer may have a different take on that grinder now based on other grinders that have come to market since and also other grinders that he has tested since!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Macca said:


> Advice and recommendations from well informed forum members are always a massive help, of course.


Be careful as there are some "aparant experts" that sprout a lot of shite ^^


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I would not touch the Ascaso i1 or i2 with a barge pole.

The retention in them is very high, and it's very hard to dial in a bean due to the screw worm mechanism. And, oh boy, it's loud!

The Eureka Mignon is a far superior product in my opinion.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are going to buy a Mignon, thats fine. I love them as an entry level grinder and have had many, but, you are within striking distance of the Niche, and from all evidence, there is an absolute gulf between them


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> I am pretty sure that that the reviewer may have a different take on that grinder now based on other grinders that have come to market since and also other grinders that he has tested since!


Even back then the mignon beat it & that grinder has been improved since the review was written!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

If Niche confirm for you they will offer warranty on their IGG grinders do let us know. As DacecUK alluded to it would be awfully stupid of them to not support the IGG backers with a manufacturers warranty as these backers will form the basis of the trust in their brand.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> I am pretty sure that that the reviewer may have a different take on that grinder now based on other grinders that have come to market since and also other grinders that he has tested since!


I read it as an if that's what some one can afford comment - could do a lot worse in other words. That could well be correct. I assume you can read so what can you buy for that sort of money new? The fineness of the adjustment might be a bonus but not a good idea if some one uses different methods. They are easy enough to reset after cleaning. There is a video showing how noisy the the tall version is but some i???t is allowing the burrs to touch. It is a bit noisier than a Sage. Just a pity about the fit of the adjustment thread. That's not too good at all really. Ptfe tape is a common fix for that on others as well. Just 'cause no one on here mentions it doesn't mean it can't be done.

Retention - the review mentions that but the length of the exit from the grind chamber may be a bit longer than some. The conical I-2 may be worse

There are some experts about that comment even though they have never been near one, At least the one that wrote the review has. I suspect there might be some confusion about the conical and the flat burr model too. Personally if buying in that price range I'd choose it over a couple of others, Rocky for instance.

This for what it's worth shows the differences. She makes some pretty sensible comment at times.






John

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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Indeed I can read and unfortunately I am subjected to your drivel! The covert I am referring to talking shite is not DaveC, or are you so thick skinned that you thought it was?

Looking forward to the next diatribe!


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Having used the Ascaso mentioned and the Rocky quite extensively, I would respectfully disagree with ajohn for implying that the Ascaso is the better grinder. Both are quite outdated now, but the major drawback with the Rocky is that it's stepped and frustratingly often, one setting is too course while the next is too fine. There's a mod to work round this if I recall correctly, but out of the box the Ascaso is better to work with in this respect, if used purely for espresso. The worm drive makes it easy to get the right extraction once you're in the right ballpark. Other than that, it's noisy, comparatively flimsy, has an inconsistent grind and the retention is massive, bigger than the Rocky, which itself isn't great.

Personally I'd skip either of these. If you can get Niche to say they'd provide a warranty, I'd snap that up. I'm quite cynical though and if I'm not mistaken with Indegogo you're a backer not a purchaser as such, so there's no legal requirement for them to provide a warranty and it's not usual for this to happen, although in fairness, as other people have said, it should be in their interest to do so and people on here who know the developers were very relaxed about being backers right from the start and have always been confident they'd see a return on their investment.

I've no experience of the Mignon, but have read the comments of the many happy customers they've had on this forum and think it would fit the bill for you, just bear in mind that it'll be no match for the Niche with it's Kony burrs and negligible retention.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Here's my data on grinders, ranked by footprint in square cm, being width times length. This should give you some useful information.

Grinders Footprint cm2.pdf


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

From what I can see, Eureka Mignon and Mazzer SJ seem to fit that criteria, but really open to any advice. What would you pick if you were in my shoes? Cheers!



Just my take on this - The footprint of the Major is about the same as the SJ 293mm depth the K6 has 635mm (thanks @l

es24preludes above)- and 83mm burrs will improve the flavours and it will run on forever - with 5-8 drinks a week single dosing is a must, with on demand such as the mignon your going to have half cracked beans sitting in the burrs for 24hrs, anything smaller than 64mm burrs is a step backwards. The Niche combines single dosing small footprint large burrs but at a price, but for £150 - 300 SH you can get 83mm burrs in a machine that will run on forever.​


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> From what I can see, Eureka Mignon and Mazzer SJ seem to fit that criteria, but really open to any advice. What would you pick if you were in my shoes? Cheers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree completely. It was jimbojohn himself who persuaded me to replace my SJ with a Major because the footprint was similar. Best thing I ever did. The Major is lightening fast and just tastes better than the SJ, plus the grind is fluffier and no real clumping, so great for bottomless PFs.

If you look at the footprint data I posted, the Compak K6 has a large footprint for a 64mm burr grinder - 860 cm2. Hence your problem. If you want small footprint and approx. 64mm burrs look at these:

Niche, Monolith, ECM S-Automatik 64, Ceado E5/E6, Profitek T64, Quamar M80, Rocket Fausto, and indeed the Super Jolly. It's all in the data.

For 70mm to 83mm burrs:

Ceado E92, E37S, Fiorenzato F71K, F75E, F6, F83E, San Remo S83E and indeed the Mazzer Major. The Major has a footprint of 619cm2 compared to the Compak K6 of 860cm2. With 83mm burrs that's a win-win option.


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## Macca (Aug 29, 2016)

Email back from Niche on warranty is below.

"We are glad you like the grinder and coffee forums uk has definitely been a great outlet for us.

A warranty is something we are currently working on and it is now in its final stages. We will be releasing more information on this very soon.

Sorry we can't explain much at the moment.

Best regards,

Niche Coffee"


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The OP was after low height as well as small footprint.

Glad some one has had the both the Rocky and the Ascaso. A video showing cleaning a Rocky would put me right off. Not so sure about flimsy Ascaso but maybe the steel is more flimsy than the cast aluminium model. Anyway mentioned on price.

One thing that hasn't mentioned is weighing beans in. Niche is made for that others that use a spout / on demand can be a bit tricky to get all of the grinds out. Easier on models that have a funnel or doser and much easier to do on some makes than others. Some may need a short length of tube to attach the lens hood to, The idea is to get all of the grinds out somehow eg






I find it better to puff with the grinder running. I can hear more bits being ground. I've found it isn't as simple as that after say 1kg of beans have been ground so to get the lot out the brush needs using twice. Some people make funnels for grinders with a doser or one model can be bought a bit over the OP's budget where that has been done

http://www.myespresso.co.uk/product/m80-grinder-non-doser-polished/








As some have mentioned Niche makes a lot of sense. I haven't because I have all of this gear about and can make my own. Odd thing is that as far as burrs go very similar to Niche even before I had heard of it. Choice of burrs comes from using a Sage grinder where for me at least this style of burr has advantages when it comes to clearing beans and grinds that flats lacks. If it turns out that other things prevent me from rolling my own I'll very probably buy one.







This is the reason why I can't get on with it for a while yet









3 major jobs left to do some worse than others and then all of the units can all go in.

John

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

^^^ it's a wonder you've got time to post on here at all ^^^


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

MildredM said:


> ^^^ it's a wonder you've got time to post on here at all ^^^


Needs to prioritise me thinks?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> ^^^ it's a wonder you've got time to post on here at all ^^^


LOL It's generally when I have a cup of tea or coffee or having a rest. I'm too old to work on that sort of job n hours a day day after day. Delays happen as I do need to get people in to do some of the work and the kitchen has to be kept functional. 12 months so far but lots of background work done. Fitting the units is easy - me fitting the worktops may not be but I'll give it a go.








I wanted to have the old kitchen ripped out 30 odd years ago but my wife disagreed. It can take a long time for her to change her mind.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@ajohn.....there is a reason why we do not buy fillet steak then put it in a slow cooker. likewise, there is a reason why we buy cheap cuts of meat and slow cook them. You cannot make a cheap crap grinder into anything else other than what it is. If you take a 1959 Land Rover and stick a new engine in, it is a 1959 Land Rover but with a new engine.........one day, and I mean this sincerely, I hope the wisdom fairy enters your house and plants a thought in your mind........and it would be this........stop trying to make silk purses from porcupines and buy something that is recognised as being decent to start with, before you get your tools out! If you add up the amount you have spent on dodgy gear, you could probably have had a three quarter decent set up by now, as opposed to what you have (mainly referring to your grinder collection) and have had.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

if people listened too hard to posts like the one dfk41 just made they wont be making any coffee. People can now chuck a mazzer mini and ceado 37j on the scrap heap both of which cost more than some people will want to spend. The same silly comments crop up over and over again without people realising that for various reason maybe even just the height people can not do what is suggested. Here's a post from the same person



> dfk41
> 
> 01-07-14, 07:51
> 
> ...


So don't even consider buying an espresso machine unless you can do the same 'cause you will be making crap coffee no one would want to drink. This from a bloke that couldn't get a decent drink out of a Sage grinder.

LOL I buy them for a different reason and my selection process changes as a result of each one. I also need 2 of them - saves me messing a single one up cleaning it for a different bean.

A lot of posts on this area leave me to conclude that some live on planet Zod







and also behave accordingly at times via posts.

John

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> if people listened too hard to posts like the one dfk41 just made they wont be making any coffee. People can now chuck a mazzer mini and ceado 37j on the scrap heap both of which cost more than some people will want to spend. The same silly comments crop up over and over again without people realising that for various reason maybe even just the height people can not do what is suggested. Here's a post from the same person
> 
> So don't even consider buying an espresso machine unless you can do the same 'cause you will be making crap coffee no one would want to drink. This from a bloke that couldn't get a decent drink out of a Sage grinder.
> 
> ...


Yeah. Much better to listen to someone who recommends a ascaso I1 as a viable replacement to a Compak k6 on the basis of a review that has to be over 6 years old which mentioned a *better grinder in the Ops budget*.

I don't know why you feel the need to attack people who happen to have different views to you due to their personal experience of high end equipment but I wish you'd stop.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The grinder review I did that has been referred to is 8 years old. It was not written for the advanced audience on here, but the person who had a piece of crap for a grinder and wanted to get the *minimum* required that would do the job (ostensibly for a pumped prosumer machine). I think I pretty much steered them towards the Mignon (which was relatively cheap compared to comparable stuff at the time). Even the Ascaso that wasn't too bad, I felt the Mignon at a little more was the smarter choice. I also believe I have said before that really the Mignon is a minimum requirement. To try and put that properly in perspective.

The cheapest Model Dacia Sandero Access is £6995, it's a minimum requirement (pretty much) for a car. I presume there are some even cheaper. It will do the job.

The cheapest Honda jazz is £13365, it does the same job, but perhaps a bit better, bit easier on a long journey, bit more reliable

In the same way there are better grinders than the *minimum* requirement. If that's all you can afford, if that's the size you must have if it's a combination of both, then a person doesn't have a lot of choice....because mostly a bicycle won't do (extending the car analogy). A few other things I read in the thread classing grinder by burr size, is also hugely misleading, especially as it implies (probably unintentionally) that a flat burr of 64mm is pretty much the same as a conical of the same size...it isn't and they have very different characteristics.

The grinder world has moved on over the last 8 years and many more models have come to market, Mini Es and rebadged stuff, manufacturer shiny rebadged etc.. are today representing poor value for the consumer. Mazzer have simply sat on their laurels for decades. Do they make a good burr...yes, do they make a good grinder...yes, but you pay for the name and the fact they are ex commercial. Do Mazzers leave a bit to be desired in some areas of their design...yes, but their brand image means they have never bothered to change these things. My take on all these grinders.


Eureka - taking the home market seriously, good solid range of grinders for all levels. Entry level Mignon makes a good minimum level grinder.

Baratza (and their Mahlkoneig Variants) - why give them your business, grinder after unreliable grinder, some models well over hyped, vario is not great

Mahlkoneig - Addordable models (relatively compared to others) K30, good in it's day much better value for money available, have good burrs

Mazzer - Madness to buy new, used represents a bargain, good quality burrs if genuine mazzer burrs. Need to be careful buying used as some can be knackered, buy from person you trust, some models are very large, Mini (non E) is OK, but not super great.

Ascaso - don't listen to the two old ladies

Ceado - never took the home market seriously and what are they doing with the E37J and 64mm burrs...who the hell asked for that and what a waste of time at the price. 83 mm E37S or better. I am guessing they stopped the E92 71mm conical because of it's £2500+ price tag and lack of adoption into commercial markets due to it's cost...it's a fantastic grinder (what a shame).

Niche...well you know my opinion, the market will decide

Quamar - 1 model OK, most not great


Now no one can cover all the grinders, things change companies change. The OP wanted a small grinder, I saw a comment about footprint, but I think that was misinterpreting the need...I don't believe he wanted a tall thin child on his counter. His realistic choices for the price are a used Mignon, Mini E, Compak K3 (possibly an old one), buy the Mignon/Compak K3 (I tested one, not a terrible grinder) new. All good solid grinders for his specific requirements.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> The OP wanted a small grinder, I saw a comment about footprint, but I think that was misinterpreting the need...I don't believe he wanted a tall thin child on his counter.


Yes - I was wondering that myself. That's why I posted the data about actual measured footprint. But even in terms of footprint, what's more important - the width or the depth? For me it's the width. That's why I stay with my Classic/Baby and why I don't mind my Major. I have limited counter width in my kitchen, whereas the depth of a standard kitchen counter allows for deeper machines, and I don't mind the height (lens hood).

I think what you're saying is that commercial grinders just "look big" even if the actual footprint or width is deceptively manageable. To somebody who isn't a coffee nut I'm sure "size matters".


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ajohn said:


> if people listened too hard to posts like the one dfk41 just made they wont be making any coffee. People can now chuck a mazzer mini and ceado 37j on the scrap heap both of which cost more than some people will want to spend. The same silly comments crop up over and over again without people realising that for various reason maybe even just the height people can not do what is suggested. Here's a post from the same person
> 
> So don't even consider buying an espresso machine unless you can do the same 'cause you will be making crap coffee no one would want to drink. This from a bloke that couldn't get a decent drink out of a Sage grinder.
> 
> ...


Ajohn, you really are astonishingly rude.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

@DavecUK - I wasn't saying anything other than what you yourself said other than in IMHO I'd put it ahead of the Rocky for the reason I mentioned. People for some reason seem to think I am saying something else. Nothing more than size and price.







I'm well aware that loads of people will comment on performance some though sound like a record that has stuck and their suggestions will never suite all.

It's sometimes said that no commercial grinder is really suitable for home use. Hurray for Niche, some one decided to do something different. About time too. There isn't much of a problem once some one has used several grinders realising why doing something different is a good idea. Actually going on odd comments about on demand grinders in shows expect changes in that area to come along eventually. Even a local coffee shop I use sometimes have gone on demand. It's a farm shop.

37j , simples. Just like the E6 price breaks. Manufacturers consider amounts people will spend when they produce just about anything so they tend to settle down in price breaks. They don't relate to cost of manufacture any more either - they relate to what people will pay and market sizes. The 37j is probably pitched directly at the Jolly. I know which I am inclined to buy and why.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The vast majority of Mazzers go into the commercial world and are then recycled. Not the same for Ceado as a lot of people buy them new for home. My criticism of your approach, @ajohn was that things have moved on, for most people anyway, in the same way that grinder design and supply has. If you want to go back to the 1990's and tinker, that fine, do it......just do not share your findings so enthusiastically.......I suggested that if you took the amount of money you have spent on the grinders you have bought (and why do you hold up the Mini and E37J as being anything other than basic and mediocre in anyones view) then you might have a recognised grinder with which to play. I did not consider my post to you particularly rude, though I appreciate from time to time I may have been of course.

On the Sage, I never said I could not get a decent cuppa. What I said, was it was a pile of shite, which is different. At the time, I was drinking decaf and had already shimmed it. White Gloves came out, told me my approach to shot preparation was wrong. threw away the scales and proceeded to dose at 23 to 24 gms and tamp like your life depended on it. The result was a reasonable pour but not within any recognised timescale. I then pulled a shot on my Mythos @ 18 gms and pulled a perfect shot with the same bean. The guy shrugged his shoulder and said if you want to use the Sage grinder, then that would be the regime I would need to use. There is no arguing with that and I cannot see how you can draw any conclusion other than the grinder is not fit for purpose........but, what do you really expect for the money? God help anyone who paid full price!

Your speciality seems to be buying obsolete Russian style munitions then telling us how great they are, especially for the price paid. perhaps you are wrong and I am right! I have never been defeated by a grinder or coffee machine yet and yes, I have had a few. The difference is, I do not feel the need to tell everyone, and at length about it. Of course I waffle on from time to time, but not EVERY time


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The reason I reacted to the post was that it has no place in a thread on small footprint short grinders. As to me using an old internet convention I DO WHAT SUITES ME AT THE TIME.I DO IT FOR MY OWN REASONS.

Also tell me just where I have done this



> (and why do you hold up the Mini and E37J as being anything other than basic and mediocre in anyones view)


I haven't used the Ceado enough to have any opinions about it as a grinder. I do have opinions about the Mini.

Sage grinder - that's one problem I didn't have with it. I wonder why.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ajohn said:


> The reason I reacted to the post was that it has no place in a thread on small footprint short grinders. As to me using an old internet convention I DO WHAT SUITES ME AT THE TIME.I DO IT FOR MY OWN REASONS.
> 
> Also tell me just where I have done this
> 
> ...


I could suggest that the reason you did not have a problem with the Sage, and presumably why you think the Mini top notch, as you will do the E37J, is because............I will let others fill the dots in and if needs be start a new thread.

And if you are offering people advice based on 8 year old reviews in days that there was not that much around, then you really are as stupid as you often come across......no need to give you any leeway now matey....tell me your favourite film is Dumb and Dumber, then at least I would have some regard for you.....and look, I managed to type all of this without the need for caps! just in case anyone is wondering why, I do not need capital letters to let everyone know that in my view, you are stupid, opinionated and do not contribute much to anything, but, thats just my opinion and as we all know, the nice thing about opinions is that no matter what your opinion is, it can be just as right as the next persons......


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Repeat

Also tell me just where I have done this

(and why do you hold up the Mini and E37J as being anything other than basic and mediocre in anyones view)

Ignore that by all means. I haven't denied that 80mm or what ever produces a better drink either.

The rest well I'm now reminded of pots calling the kettle black.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I will not comment further in tittle tattle with you on this thread, as it is not about me, or you. If you want to start a new thread I will joust with you for as long as you want to, but I cannot guarantee that you will not end up in tears at some point.......your choice


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Makes Brexit look easy...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> Makes Brexit look easy...


I agree 100%. In my case it's pointless responding, reason wont work so no more from me. One thing for sure these posts wont stop people continuing to make drinks they like with what ever they are using. As is often the case people's problems usually comes down to what they are doing and not what they are using and thank heavens there are people about who help with that. Go buy an n mm grinder wont help.

Actually if I reviewed anything I have and have used for a while there would be a number of criticisms but I refrain from doing that as I don't see any reason to put people off obtaining them. I try to point out positives instead and also correct certain things that crop up now and again.

Fortunately I also don't have to read his threads.

John

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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

In the grand scheme of things a Major isn't that big, and is only slightly taller than an SJ and goves far better results in the cup as well as grinding faster with a lot less clumping..










Compared to an EK it's small..










I put felt pads on the Major's feet so it can be pulled forward (as it used to be under kitchen cabinets.)


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> I agree 100%. In my case it's pointless responding, reason wont work so no more from me. One thing for sure these posts wont stop people continuing to make drinks they like with what ever they are using. As is often the case people's problems usually comes down to what they are doing and not what they are using and thank heavens there are people about who help with that. Go buy an n mm grinder wont help.
> 
> Actually if I reviewed anything I have and have used for a while there would be a number of criticisms but I refrain from doing that as I don't see any reason to put people off obtaining them. I try to point out positives instead and also correct certain things that crop up now and again.
> 
> ...


Always thought your opinions were ill informed. Now you admit to it being Intentional!

I pity anybody who has been fool enough to follow your advice only to find out the bad points you've consciously chosen to ignore grossly outweigh the good points which may or may not even exist.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

small footprint grinder? I'll say Aergrind


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ajohn said:


> The rest well I'm now reminded of pots calling the kettle black.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Hey stop using my quotes! There are only to pots on this forum and you are both of them


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

while off-line I found this and immediately thought of this thread


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