# Drink Rubbish Coffee???????????



## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

How do people subscribe to the following?

As a noob I have been trying a fair few different beans, initially I was getting distinctive differences between beans in the form of acidity/sourness etc.

Once I made my drink, usually flat whites I could tell if I liked that bean/brew ratio. I am now struggling to taste the difference, currently using two different beans from Rave but not really noticing any difference. Both very pleasant.

My point is not the beans but my palate, do you think that you should stop drinking fresh coffee for a spell to allow your palate to re-adjust and allow the subtle tastes from fresh beans come through again?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Out of interest - what's your ratio of coffee to milk? Perhaps try adding less milk

Try drinking black filter / pour over coffee instead - the flavours of a good single origin really pop for me in a chemex or v 60


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

About 4:1

Don't like black coffee really..and bugger off Boots, if I bring something different into the house to make coffee from the wife will kill me


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> About 4:1
> 
> Don't like black coffee really..and bugger off Boots, if I bring something different into the house to make coffee from the wife will kill me


Try as amerciano ?

How big is the cup you are making your milk drink in


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

mremanxx said:


> About 4:1
> 
> Don't like black coffee really..and bugger off Boots, if I bring something different into the house to make coffee from the wife will kill me


4 parts coffee to 1 part milk or the other way around? 

I've not tried black coffee since I was a wee lad and it was yuck! Sink shot, lol! If you're imagining black *instant* coffee, I can assure you brewed coffee without milk is probably very different to what you're imagining. Try it and see then share your thoughts.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Standard flat white 5-6oz, to be honest this is a bit small for me as I used to drink a standard coffee cup size before I found fresh coffee, I am more aware of my caffeine intake now too. Have you tried the decaf stuff, never ever used decaff in any form before.

Don't know if it's a mental thing but I like milk in my coffee.

If I don't make flatties it is a Lungo with a little milk.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> 4 parts coffee to 1 part milk or the other way around?
> 
> I've not tried black coffee since I was a wee lad and it was yuck! Sink shot, lol! If you're imagining black *instant* coffee, I can assure you brewed coffee without milk is probably very different to what you're imagining. Try it and see then share your thoughts.


.

Bloody hell supercharge coffee you must make..........







4 parts milk to one part coffee.

As I said it's not so much the current taste I wondered if you could get too used to decent coffee and then lost the subtle flavours.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

what are the 2 coffees u have on the go then


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> About 4:1
> 
> Don't like black coffee really..and bugger off Boots, if I bring something different into the house to make coffee from the wife will kill me


Do you thin you ever really had a great made chemex as an example ?

Thats what got me into brewed coffee , when TSK made me one a couple of years ago and it opened my eyes to coffee without milk


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Do you thin you ever really had a great made chemex as an example ?
> 
> Thats what got me into brewed coffee , when TSK made me one a couple of years ago and it opened my eyes to coffee without milk


As I said.bugger off, you should have seen the look when I lugged the Isomac in last week, I would be sleeping in the garage if I bring anything more home

At the moment they are

Rave Columbian Suarez

Rave Nuts and Plums

Prior to that it was Wahroonga and Malabar ( didn't like the malabar to be honest)


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Something as simple as an Impress Brewer, small and relatively affordable, is what I used to try brewed coffee. Can easily be tucked away in a cupboard out of sight when not in use. WAF should be quite high, lol!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Adding milk to those is prpbably gonna make em both sweet , toffee, choc etc...unless your adding sugar too


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> Something as simple as an Impress Brewer, small and relatively affordable, is what I used to try brewed coffee. Can easily be tucked away in a cupboard out of sight when not in use. WAF should be quite high, lol!


You can bugger off too

I must admit the chemex looks classy, very oriental to me.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Adding milk to those is prpbably gonna make em both sweet , toffee, choc etc...unless your adding sugar too


LMAO...........I still don't get any of the tasting notes from any coffee, I made a friend an espresso using the Suarez and he commented on how sweet it was he's a git though.

I don't take sugar either.

I struggle to explain it TBH when I get a really nice cup I just want another.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Try blending a little of the Monsooned Malabar with the Suarez. Maybe 75% Columbian to 25% MM.

Then adjust the percentages to change the flavour to what you find you like.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

No can do Ron all drunk, just ordered some new beans from Foundry, some Rwandan and some Yirga


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The yirg should give you a big fruity hit


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> The yirg should give you a big fruity hit


The one I got from HasBean has been my favourite bean by far (cheleba).......only trouble is it isn't available now, read lots about beans going in and out of season but didn't think it would be an issue.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Dump the milk for a while i say, it can mask flavors and give you the impression of all shots tasting the same, or similar...

As boots says try americanos, drop your shot onto hot water and play with the ratios after tasting, i have maybe one milky drink a day now, the rest are black in the form of either americanos, espresso or pour over.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

And as Ron says, blend the MM, on its own i find it dull, but with the right bean blend it comes alive.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Out of interest - what's your ratio of coffee to milk?





mremanxx said:


> About 4:1





DoubleShot said:


> 4 parts coffee to 1 part milk or the other way around?





mremanxx said:


> Bloody hell supercharge coffee you must make..........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Dump the milk for a while i say, it can mask flavors and give you the impression of all shots tasting the same, or similar...


I tried some of the drinks that were for latte art practice with Sainbury's extra dark espresso roast, they were oily/shiny as, smelled so rank out the grinder, smelled so rank as espresso, but put them in milk and they were 'OK' - very slightly bitter and acrid aftertaste but not massively noticeable. Milk definitely homogenises (LOL!) stuff to a degree.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Yep I understand now, he asked coffee to milk ratio, I answered milk to coffee ratio..........I'm old Shot


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Haven't really thought about mixing beans, felt the roasters had spent so much time doing their stuff that I shouldn't piss about with it but like cooking it is good to adapt recipes to suit yourself. Good tip Froggy will try it, might even try Americanos again


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I buy Tesco Finest beans for general use and to practive latte art. Just made a lovely flat white. 18g/35.8g/32sec and managed to get a little heart..










Anyway, cheap coffee it may be but managed to get a lovely flat white from it, even my other half liked it and remarked that she got a nutty taste from it and she said it was really smooth. Up to now I've had to put a spoon of sugar into my flat whites just so she can have a sip (she hates the bitterness of coffee). So not all that bad for what, £2.90 for a bag of beans? In fairness I was chuffed that I pulled a decent shot and got a bit of a white splodge on top


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Get some decent beans and you might be able to drink it without sugar....

Whats the reasons for the Tesco stuff , price ?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Pull the shot to the sweet spot & steam the milk a little less and natural sweetness is enough.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Get some decent beans and you might be able to drink it without sugar....
> 
> Whats the reasons for the Tesco stuff , price ?


I've not put sugar into my coffee since I bought the Expobar set up back in January and started buying decent beans.

The latest coffee I'm on, from coffee compass, is pretty sweet to taste in milk, absolutely no sugar required at all and no bitterness, I'm frankly amazed at how roasters can get coffee tasting sweet and without bitterness.

I drink mainly milk based drinks with the very odd espresso or Americano.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

make a shot in a largish cup. Steam 6 ounces of milk, then add an ounce or so at a time tasting as you go. eventually you will find the right amount but just taste it dont drink it! every bean is different though


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Get some decent beans and you might be able to drink it without sugar....
> 
> Whats the reasons for the Tesco stuff , price ?


I don't add sugar for myself, only for our lass and she liked it without this time as I got it about spot on.

As for Tesco, I'd nearly run out of beans so got some while I was out shopping (smaller store in Selby) and actually quite like these - they go well in milky drinks. The larger Tesco store in York has more variety but I think if I can wait I'd get some from the local roaster or some Cervetii the next time I go to brew & Brownie café in York as they sell 1Kg bags (that one is quite fruity).

As an aside, I was trying to pre-infuse on the Classic by hitting the steam switch for 5 secs - knocking it back to brew, then opening the steam valve slightly for about 10 secs while hitting the brew switch then shutting the steam valve off. I could hear the pump tone change when shutting the water off. Don't know if it was psychosomatic but I definitely got a better tasting coffee as it passed the missus test.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

All very good and valid points, however no-one has answered the original question...........Can drinking too much good quality numb your senses to it's qualities?

As my Mum used to say "Too much of a good thing" etc.

If you agree do you stop drinking as much coffee, drink something else or not have this issue?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

there u go



mremanxx said:


> All very good and valid points, however no-one has answered the original question...........Can drinking too much good quality numb your senses to it's qualities? NO
> 
> As my Mum used to say "Too much of a good thing" etc.
> 
> If you agree do you stop drinking as much coffee, drink something else or not have this issue?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

mremanxx said:


> All very good and valid points, however no-one has answered the original question...........Can drinking too much good quality numb your senses to it's qualities?
> 
> As my Mum used to say "Too much of a good thing" etc.
> 
> If you agree do you stop drinking as much coffee, drink something else or not have this issue?


No, I don't think too much good quality numbs your senses, if anything it sharpens them...and you can end up more critical. Do you struggle with discerning different flavours generally, like with beer, wine, etc.? Bear in mind that good quality beans are only potentially a good quality drink, not automatically so...there still might be some fine tuning to the shots that you can do? As others have suggested, maybe taste some as Americano?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

mremanxx said:


> All very good and valid points, however no-one has answered the original question...........Can drinking too much good quality numb your senses to it's qualities?
> 
> As my Mum used to say "Too much of a good thing" etc.
> 
> If you agree do you stop drinking as much coffee, drink something else or not have this issue?


Personally I think what you have to do is buy a bean/blend that you like and stick with them for a few months then buy a different blend/beans and so on.

I bought about five different bags of beans from coffee compass and they are all very good, fantastic in fact, but there isn't really a great deal of difference to each of them IMO so any single one of those bags would have been perfect for me for a few months.

Their Gusto Gold blend has been the best in milk drinks so that's probably what I'll buy for the next few months so that I get used to the taste of those beans then move on.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

twotone said:


> Their Gusto Gold blend has been the best in milk drinks so that's probably what I'll buy for the next few months so that I get used to the taste of those beans then move on.


Not to make you want to go against your own advice, but why not try Rocko Mountain Resetve from foundrycoffeeroasters in between. It has been highly recommended by many. I'm thinking of ordering some so it's well rested by the time this last bag of Rave beans finishes. Oh and if you haven't already, drop Lee @ Foundry a PM to activate your email address for a 15% discount on beans.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I don't think twotone would like that from previous posts but if you do want to try it let me know and I send you a wee bit (or come by the stall)


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## tonyfisher (Mar 28, 2015)

i tend to add less milk, sometimes i prefer my expresso with a bit of milk. its not really a matter of rubbish coffee Britishseniors.co.uk


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

oh no!


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## scottomus (Aug 13, 2014)

With the amount that I drink, I personally find it's helped with identifying flavours and subtle notes!


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

mremanxx said:


> All very good and valid points, however no-one has answered the original question...........Can drinking too much good quality numb your senses to it's qualities?
> 
> As my Mum used to say "Too much of a good thing" etc.
> 
> If you agree do you stop drinking as much coffee, drink something else or not have this issue?


Your original question seems to ask a number of things. One answer is provided by Mark - if your question is really about how you taste coffee, then by drinking good quality coffee it does help to extend your palate and your taste to become more discerning. I don't have a very well developed palate and can only admire those people who can really get that the Rwandan Epiphany Muhriwa (that I happen to be drinking brewed in a V60 - £15, Whittard) has a 'lively aroma of redcurrants' and is an 'acidity driven cup with medium sweetness, loganberry and cacao.' I certainly get the subtle sweetness and that there is red berry quality to it but&#8230; loganberry? I also know that it doesn't matter - why matters is that I like the taste and like it enough to want to drink more. When I first started buying beans to grind and brew at home (initially via a stove top), I thought that what I was buying in the supermarket was good but a year later I know that what I buy from Foundry, for example, is different and to my taste better - because I think I have become more discerning at least so far as taste is concerned (even if I can't put it into words). So - the straight forward answer to your question is that droning a lot of good quality coffee has not numbed my sense to its qualities. Across the last year it has taught me how to begin to appreciate those qualities.

Your question, which is another way of saying what your Mum says, can also be taken to ask whether or not we habituate to particular things - and yes we can - so we do not respond in the same way to repeated exposure to the same stimulus (in your example, the taste of coffee). Does that matter? There are tastes (Mark's example includes beer and wine) that become familiar but that doesn't affect our enjoyment of them. We either appreciate their finer qualities or we just neck it because we like the overall sensations - or do both at different times. Mark's argument - linked to his first point - is that we can see habituation as an opportunity to think about those finer or more subtle qualities and to develop our palate and our descriptive vocabulary.

Your question can also be taken, as it has been by a number of replies, and again, by Mark, as an invitation to think about the range of factors that influence taste and why your senses might have become 'numbed'. So - it might be the way that you brew your coffee, what you add to it, and it might be to do with your own health - having a cold, for instance, can profoundly affect how things taste.

My suggestion would be to develop your own flavour wheel or continuum - and start to locate the coffee that you buy and brew along that continuum. My other suggestion is that if you are happy with what you are drinking and it encompasses a wide range of coffees - then that's a cause for celebration - you have a versatile palate and that's a good quality.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You'll get palate fatigue if drinking lots in a short space of time (minutes) but day to day its best to try more and more to sharpen the senses


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## xygorn (Feb 10, 2015)

Palate fatigue (even sip to sip) is why a lot of places will give you (sparkling) water with your espresso. I find I like to take two sips of espresso then one with water, the two sips of espresso often give different flavours depending on whether you just had water (sip 1) or you just had espresso (sip 2). The same trick works when you are drinking two beers at a time: two sips of beer 1 then two sips of beer 2 gives you 4 different flavours.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Espresso is a seriously strong and concentrated flavour. The first sip is always a shock to the palette. Dialling in daily, I taste each pull a few times and then with a splash of room temperature water as it opens up the profile more.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

twotone said:


> Personally I think what you have to do is buy a bean/blend that you like and stick with them for a few months then buy a different blend/beans and so on.
> 
> I bought about five different bags of beans from coffee compass and they are all very good, fantastic in fact, but there isn't really a great deal of difference to each of them IMO so any single one of those bags would have been perfect for me for a few months.
> 
> Their Gusto Gold blend has been the best in milk drinks so that's probably what I'll buy for the next few months so that I get used to the taste of those beans then move on.


This is where I am at I think, trying too many different beans expecting big differences, after this new batch will focus on something, only trouble is the bloody seasonal stuff


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## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Scotford said:


> Espresso is a seriously strong and concentrated flavour. The first sip is always a shock to the palette. Dialling in daily, I taste each pull a few times and then with a splash of room temperature water as it opens up the profile more.


Always a good move; a nice glass of water for yourself helps too, sip between sips and you'll find a bunch of flavours were bopping around that you may not have picked up on at first. Failing that I find i often pick up on missed notes a few minutes after supping, particularly a lot of the 'milk chocolate' descriptors.

... And my last one, the age of what you're brewing can affect what going on, that week long grace period of waiting can be great in itself but going even longer definitely changes flavour profile. I guess that's the point of the lsol and dsol threads. Personal experience, recently finished up a Nicaragua finque el bosque from rave. A week in I was picking up darker berry notes, raspberry, blackberry and even cherry with a shave of dark choc- towards the end (so nearer two weeks in, even three maybe) a lighter flavour was definitely apparent and the strawberries were marching around.


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