# Cafelat Robot - Opinions please



## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Hey, I'm really itching to have the flexibility to play with pressure profiling but have a relatively small budget and getting sick of my silvia and being blind to what's going regarding temp and pressure. Thought I might have the patience to wait for a cheap E61 group machine to come up for sale and then stick flow control on it but not sure I do...

So does the robot have the flexibility to play around with different pressures and ratios? I know Hoffman said longer ratios work better, can you do shorter ones to good effect? I quite like 1:1 or 1:1.5 but don't hate a more standard ratio. The videos I've seen show some really good looking shots. Can it handle all roast levels? The silvia hasn't handled light roasts well, so keen to experiment.

The workflow seems quite good considering what it is. I've looked at the flair but seems like a lot more faff, I'm not sure I want any more faff than what the robot requires.

I don't drink milky coffee but my gf does. I've looked into alternate options for steaming.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

newdent said:


> have a relatively small budget and getting sick of my silvia and being blind to what's going regarding temp and pressure.


 I don't think the Robot will deal with the temperature issues. Yes, it will be "consistent" - providing your routine is consistent - but it won't be like, the bees knees.

I don't know what budget you have in mind, but, if I why not go for a second hand la Pavoni? They are often not too expensive, lots of parts, and you can add a pressure profiling kit if that's what you want. You won't have temperature consistency, but that can be easily solved by a £2.99 fish tank thermometer strip.

And, that also fixes the issue related to steaming. The Pavoni is an excellent steamer, providing you fit a single hole steam tip.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Thanks, something to think on. I had briefly looked at the la pavoni but they seem pretty sought after and sell for a fair bit. Saying that, the robot isn't cheap.

People seemed to complain about temp management If the pavoni whereas with the robot, it's just a case of putting the kettle on and good to go. It seems like it's sort of pour over vibes but with tasty espresso. The milk aspect of for my gf but doubt it'd bother her using one of those whisk things to froth.

I'll have a look into both and see what I come up with.


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## NikC (May 6, 2020)

I still really like my Robot after 8 months use. You can get very consistent temperature and play around with preinfusion and pressure as you like. Its simple to use - boil a kettle and brew, no warm up time, and clean-up is about 15 seconds. There's a very long thread on the home barista forum with lots of useful info.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

I have used mine on/ off for a year or so.

Its good for medium-dark beans and pretty easy to get consistent-ish results. Its also fun and satisfying to use, and having nothing electrical or valves etc to go wrong or need maintaining is great. Playing with different pre infusion times, and (relatively crude) pressure profiles is interesting and enjoyable, and you can learn a lot about making espresso this way. Temperature is consistent, but not easily controllable.

Even with a complex pre heating regime I have never got good shots with lighter roasts / African beans, even those sold as espresso -suitable. I think the longer pre infusion / shot times needed end up cooling everything too much. Also this pre heating workflow is not so much fun and takes the enjoyable simple elegance out of the process for me. Process is a big part of the joy of all of this, as well as actually drinking the shot. I have also never got amazing shots from it, compared with other machines - although as ever this is probably user error. But I think its better than a Sylvia / gaggia classic etc, and also probably better than a cheaper e61 unless you are making lots of shots at a time for guests / family, or want to steam milk

As ever, you will need a good grinder


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Thanks guys, that's really helpful. I generally only drink medium to dark roasts but as I say, I've never had much success getting the silvia to brew lighter roasts (maybe more down to lack of knowledge on my part) but it would be nice to try them and see if I like them. My gf prefers lighter roasts using the v60. Grinder wise, I'm using a Mazzer mini atm but have a niche on order for July.

I'm looking into the la pavoni as well but seems like a lot more faff from a workflow perspective, I like that the robot will just be a case of boiling the kettle. I think that ultimately, I will keep an eye out for a low end, used E61 and then add flow control but as they come up rarely at the moment, a lever would offer some fun to be had in the mean time. It's robot vs la pavoni at the moment. If only there was some robots knocking around used in the UK, I'd get one knowing I could sell it on for a similar price if I don't get on with it.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

TomR said:


> I have used mine on/ off for a year or so.
> 
> Its good for medium-dark beans and pretty easy to get consistent-ish results. Its also fun and satisfying to use, and having nothing electrical or valves etc to go wrong or need maintaining is great. Playing with different pre infusion times, and (relatively crude) pressure profiles is interesting and enjoyable, and you can learn a lot about making espresso this way. Temperature is consistent, but not easily controllable.
> 
> ...


 Seeing the DE1 listed under your location reminded me that I saw it in the classifieds recently. Did you ever get shots from the robot on a par with the DE1? Are you just using the robot now or moved on to something new? Sorry for the questions, it's just interesting, the direction that people go with their coffee equipment. I feel like if I had the money, something like the decent, that has lots of brew flexibility and data monitoring would be the direction I'd go, so interesting that you've gone a different direction and just wonder what's next and why.


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

I see you considered the Flair, which would be a cheaper option yet similar proposition to the Robot. I've had my eye on a Robot for 6 months but they never come up second hand, which says something I think.

I have a Flair and agree with @TomR, it produces better results than my Gaggia. In addition I have learnt so much using this rather than a machine.

The maintenance; well there's no descaling required, it's all cleaned with the water I preheated the chamber with and parts wise I don't see more than a few O rings being replaced in 3+ years time.

Two drinks back to back would be a pain but not impossible. I actually really enjoy the workflow with my Flair.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Chriss29 said:


> I see you considered the Flair, which would be a cheaper option yet similar proposition to the Robot. I've had my eye on a Robot for 6 months but they never come up second hand, which says something I think.
> 
> I have a Flair and agree with @TomR, it produces better results than my Gaggia. In addition I have learnt so much using this rather than a machine.
> 
> ...


 Yes, there's a huge facebook community but never anyone selling on there, or here, so people obviously hold on to them.

I like aspects of the flair but I don't think I want to go the route on having to pre-heat things, the clean up seems like slightly more faff, I don't really want to use paper filters, etc. I'd love a robot setup with the flair styling and single lever but without the boy racer style pressure gauge that's on the new 58!


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

newdent said:


> Yes, there's a huge facebook community but never anyone selling on there, or here, so people obviously hold on to them.
> 
> I like aspects of the flair but I don't think I want to go the route on having to pre-heat things, the clean up seems like slightly more faff, I don't really want to use paper filters, etc. I'd love a robot setup with the flair styling and single lever but without the boy racer style pressure gauge that's on the new 58!


 I get your concern, I had the same. In reality I'm boiling the kettle anyway so the chamber just sits in there too so I don't see it as any hassle now. I don't use paper filters and I don't think/see why you need to on the Signature version which I have.

Pretty sure I can get good results from light roasts if that helps. Agree, the pressure gauge does not match the style of the rest of the unit.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

newdent said:


> Seeing the DE1 listed under your location reminded me that I saw it in the classifieds recently. Did you ever get shots from the robot on a par with the DE1? Are you just using the robot now or moved on to something new? Sorry for the questions, it's just interesting, the direction that people go with their coffee equipment. I feel like if I had the money, something like the decent, that has lots of brew flexibility and data monitoring would be the direction I'd go, so interesting that you've gone a different direction and just wonder what's next and why.


 I sold my de1+. I liked but perhaps never loved it. I learned a lot and as a consequence can get shots about on a par with my robot.

i have posted elsewhere about why i sold the de1. I expected to regret it but dont. Its gone to a good home and nearly a year of ownership did not cost me too much.

i have an Alex Leva on order from David at Black Cat. Im hoping for a marginal shot improvement but its about wanting to own a big spring lever group rather than a massive improvement in the cup really.


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## NikC (May 6, 2020)

TomR said:


> I sold my de1+. I liked but perhaps never loved it. I learned a lot and as a consequence can get shots about on a par with my robot.
> 
> i have posted elsewhere about why i sold the de1. I expected to regret it but dont. Its gone to a good home and nearly a year of ownership did not cost me too much.
> 
> i have an Alex Leva on order from David at Black Cat. Im hoping for a marginal shot improvement but its about wanting to own a big spring lever group rather than a massive improvement in the cup really.


 Hi TomR

Further up the thread you said you'd got some amazing shots on other machines which you hadn't on the Robot. Do you mind sharing which machines, you've piqued my curiosity?


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

NikC said:


> Hi TomR
> 
> Further up the thread you said you'd got some amazing shots on other machines which you hadn't on the Robot. Do you mind sharing which machines, you've piqued my curiosity?


 a few times with a DE1+ using a lever profile and coffee compass jam pit hit beans, but not reliably or consistently - hence my curiosity about a "proper" lever machine

also with an Alex duetto if pulled very short and slow - the duetto broke eventually (9 years), and was beyond the ability of the Bella barista recommended tech to fix

I had the most reliably best shots - in my memory - with Charlie's Hill & Valley beans on a Sylvia! But this could be a trick of memory

And in Cafe Termini in Rome 25 years ago....


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## NikC (May 6, 2020)

Thanks Tom - Ah memories, I still remember the outstanding cappuccino in Dalry in Scotland about 15 years ago!


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## BobbyAxelrod (Jan 12, 2021)

Chriss29 said:


> I've had my eye on a Robot for 6 months but they never come up second hand, which says something I think.


 Interesting observation! Quality might indeed be one explaining factor, though it might not be the only one.

Given that the robot is at a higher price point than flairs (with the exception of the flair 58), flairs are better positioned to attract people that just want to get it as a 2nd machine or play with it for a while and resell it.

I also wonder how many robots are in circulation vs how many flairs are in circulation, as that would impact supply on the 2nd hand market.


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