# Potential lever user!



## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Hi peeps,

bean to cup user here(delonghi primadonna), bought it about seven years ago and have never been happy with it. Have tried whole beans and ground beans from various reputable places but the output always tastes the same and had left me disillusioned with the whole coffee thing.

skip forwards to now, living in France, and experiencing the whole espresso-after-a- meal routine has got me back interested. Now I find myself observing the preparation of espressos in most restos I go in...and some are truly shocking! Most are slap dash, not tamping, old grinds, dirty PFs and steam wands etc. Most espressos are more like strong filter coffee.

i hanker after that coffee shop smell, hot fresh espresso and other coffee drinks I used to enjoy in uk towns.

So, I am reinvestigating coffee and serious machinesto fulfill my desire. I have a budget of two grand, and need the whole kit. I have done intensive research and have settled on a Strega or Londinium lever machine, and probably a eureka mignon grinder(although could be tempted by a second hand jolly on eBay)

I want this purchase to be probably the last coffee machine I buy, so want to future proof myself as much as is possible.

So there you are, that's me and where I am. If you know of any where to buy secondhand Londinium, let me know as I'd happily buy a second hand one rather than a new Strega. But I'm sure I will be over the moon with a Strega! But asthetics matter when you have a wife so a Londinium would achieve brownie points!

cheers,

steve


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi and what pulls you to a Strega? They are not really authentic lever machines. A proper lever uses nothing but spring pressure to pull the shot, whereas a Strega uses a pump to force the water into the grouphead, so by varying the amount of water you can guess at changing the spring pressure. The Yanks love them but you have to question why? Next, you do realise that a machine makes coffee from whatever you put into it. A Mignon and to some extent an SJ are entry level. Your lever will definitely benefit from a grinder with larger burrs


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

How about a version one Londinium lux with glass panels and a Mazzer major combination?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hello and welcome









Regarding buying a S/h lever . . . You need to know where it has come from, how it has been used and looked after, it's age etc. The For Sale threads here on the forum are a great place to find decent used machines although Londinium lever machines don't come up often. Pairing it with a suitable grinder could easily take you over your budget.

What is it that is drawing you to a Londinium, or a lever in general?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What is your budget @Greenblood


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MildredM said:


> Hello and welcome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because they are so many times better than pump machines of course!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> How about a version one Londinium lux with glass panels and a Mazzer major combination?


Sounds superb, cc. What a set up.

I think the op mentioned his budget was £2k in his other, similar, thread.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Greenblood said:


> ........ I have a budget of two grand,......


 @coffeechap


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

In which case I have a version 1 Londinium lux with a used Mazzer major, it will be £1750 all in, l1 will be completely serviced and major will be stripped and prepared for single dosing.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

As a "first proper coffee machine" it doesn't get much better than that. Good one cc.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Bargain of the year


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> In which case I have a version 1 Londinium lux with a used Mazzer major, it will be £1750 all in, l1 will be completely serviced and major will be stripped and prepared for single dosing.


What a fantastic opportunity!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> In which case I have a version 1 Londinium lux with a used Mazzer major, it will be £1750 all in, l1 will be completely serviced and major will be stripped and prepared for single dosing.


 @Greenblood Bread & Dip spring to mind !


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> In which case I have a version 1 Londinium lux with a used Mazzer major, it will be £1750 all in, l1 will be completely serviced and major will be stripped and prepared for single dosing.


Pm sent!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Greenblood said:


> Pm sent!


Please read forum 'for sale' rules. You can't enter into negotiation by PM. You will have to wait until the items are listed and then offer the asking price before going to PM to sort payment/delivery.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Well, I think my pm was sent, but as I don't have enough posts it may not have got through. So definitely interested coffeechap!

with regards to why Strega or levers in general- I like the idea of being able to control the flow pressure, being able to stop, slow or speed up so as to play with what works and what definitely doesn't. The alternative i.e. Profitec 700 etc, is push a button and wait. To get anything in the same league of controllability of pressure profiling, companies are asking silly money i.e. Rocket V60 £3200 but doesn't come close to what the Strega can do.

what attracts me to Strega in particular, is the flexibility it offers, even, seemingly, over the Londinium, as you can control how much fluid (and the pressure) is let into the chamber and the complete control you have over that.

I was attracted to having the non pump, plumbed in model but now can see the benefit of actually having a pump to control what goes into the chamber rather than it being dictated by line pressure.

i could be wrong, but that's what's driving me throughts at the moment.

cheers peeps for the warm welcome!

steve


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You will not have the same options on the Londinium and unless you are prepared to modify the Strega you won't have the control on it either. I don't like the Strega others do it just feels cheap. I did have one on my bench for a while and was not impressed as it seems like a jack of all trades and master of none, but that is just my humble opinion.

I will strip the Londinium down this week and the Mazzer and get some photos of them up and in accordance with the rules start a new for sale thread.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Thanks coffeechap, will look out for it!

I do understand the Strega has been made to a price, which explains why it's such good value, but I'd prefer a Londinium for sure...it's good to be part of an exclusive club too;-)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Strega is crap! You have no control over it as you do not know how much water is entering the group, all guesswork. In the cup which counts, it is totally inferior and yes, I have had one as well. There is a reason why the L1 is considered the finest home lever machine available (and likewise, why the Strega is not!!) I do not know if you will find a UK seller for them now but hey ho!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Greenblood said:


> The alternative i.e. Profitec 700 etc, is push a button and wait.


there is also the Profitec 800


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Stanic said:


> there is also the Profitec 800


You might struggle to find one second hand and other than brand loyalty, do they add anything?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> You might struggle to find one second hand and other than brand loyalty, do they add anything?


Just wanted to balance the constant adoration of Londinium

Edit..What might possibly be the reason they are hard to find second hand?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Stanic said:


> Just wanted to balance the constant adoration of Londinium
> 
> Edit..What might possibly be the reason they are hard to find second hand?


They have only been out a year or so in the UK. Bb are the only sellers I know and they have not sold very many.....thing is, the 800 is a dipper system and much harder for a beginner to work out a routine.....the thermosyphon on the L1 system takes care of that issue


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Is the Londinium sort of heat-exchanger lever system? What I don't like about the R is that it uses a pump for making coffee..the Profitec has a pump for filling the boiler but when plumbed-in, the pump is disabled and the machine is completely silent.

I've to admit I've been eyeing the P800 since they came to market in Europe in 2015 I guess..should've gone straight with one









I've hands on experience with it and I've a soft spot for it









I've also found a mention by Gabor from Hungary at H-b forum, they made 300 coffees and many teas in 6 hours with it at an event without any issues so it looks like it can take some beating.

On the other hand I love the indestructible looks of the multi group Londinium machines.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

the Londinium uses a thermosyphon which effectively runs a continual loop of water from the boiler to the group and back again. Once it has stood idle a bit you just do a very short flush to kick start the thermosyphon again. I am not an expert of the R but I do not think the pump is used to make the shot, just to supply the water to the group which means if you connect up to a water supply then the pump is not needed. When the pump kicks in, being a rotary it is near silent and you can also adjust the pressure at which it delivers to account for bean varietal.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

The Strega is made down to a price, but they have sold many over the years and with few changes, so one would imagine they are not _that_ bad?

I like The directlyheated group, I don't understand why others rely on other methods to heat the group...what advantages is there over directly heated?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Greenblood said:


> The Strega is made down to a price, but they have sold many over the years and with few changes, so one would imagine they are not _that_ bad?
> 
> I like The directlyheated group, I don't understand why others rely on other methods to heat the group...what advantages is there over directly heated?


When you have to replace the cartridge that does the pre heating you will find out! Very few machines use this system. No one can tell you what to do. If you want a Strega, go buy one.......


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

The Londinium is highly sophisticated while the P800 has a simple construction in comparison (which I like), found this thread with lot of info. Someone even called the L-R 'Londinium-Strega'


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Stanic said:


> The Londinium is highly sophisticated while the P800 has a simple construction in comparison (which I like), found this thread with lot of info. Someone even called the L-R 'Londinium-Strega'


The last place I would go to for advice would be there Stanic! From the Londinium website

The LONDINIUM R has a cold water reservoir of 3 litres and uses a rotary pump to draw this water into the boiler and the heat exchanger

Pre-infusion pressure is governed by a pressure switch which we set at the factory to 3 bar, but you can adjust between 1 and 6 bar should you desire

Sorry but nothing like a Strega. A Strega uses the pump to pull the shot, the LR uses spring pressure


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> The last place I would go to for advice would be there Stanic! From the Londinium website
> 
> The LONDINIUM R has a cold water reservoir of 3 litres and uses a rotary pump to draw this water into the boiler and the heat exchanger
> 
> ...


I know, they do paid reviews









The Sette one was a bit funny

Surely the offer by @coffeechap in this thread is an absolute bargain


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> The last place I would go to for advice would be there Stanic! From the Londinium website
> 
> The LONDINIUM R has a cold water reservoir of 3 litres and uses a rotary pump to draw this water into the boiler and the heat exchanger
> 
> ...


correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Strega uses the pump(or line pressure if you plumb it in) to fill the group with water and then you let the lever up to use the spring tension to ramp up the pressure to 9bar?

steve


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Greenblood said:


> correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Strega uses the pump(or line pressure if you plumb it in) to fill the group with water and then you let the lever up to use the spring tension to ramp up the pressure to 9bar?
> 
> steve


Not exactly, you lift the lever which activates the pump to force water into the group, similar to a pre-infusion stage. Water i forced into the group until you knock the lever back at which point spring pressure takes over. If you plumb it in then the line in pressure does the same thing and there is no need for a pump if I remember correctly. The more water in the group (which is quite a bit bigger than an L series that holds I think, 45 ml) then the effect is a higher pre infusion pressure


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

However you look at this with regards to the first post and your desire to get up and running with a lever the offer from CC is a cracking offer and from what I can see a rare opportunity to own a rare LUX version , total no brainier .

there is a reason the Londinium gets so much adoration and it's the same reason everyone compares other makes of machines to them , because they produce mind blowing good effects in the cup time and time again with very little amount of effort .


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

If I had the cash now I would jump at that offer...it's the best value/price ratio you will see in long time


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stanic said:


> If I had the cash now I would jump at that offer...it's the best value/price ratio you will see in long time


I agree, others have told me his nickname is 'the enabler' now I see why


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm defo up for it, though not sure about the grinder, might be a bit....big along side the L1 and I may not be able to swing its asthetics past the wife.....;-)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Greenblood said:


> I'm defo up for it, though not sure about the grinder, might be a bit....big along side the L1 and I may not be able to swing its asthetics past the wife.....;-)


trust me, he has plenty of other grinders!


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I'm tempted by the L1, not so much the Major.


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes I'd need something more akin to a mignon in size, in chrome or black, something that will sit aside the L1 and look the dogs without cramping the worktop. Also need decent PFs, baskets, and nicely fitting tamps, a knockbox, maybe a tamp station. Basically I need kitting out with a serious but attractive bunch of kit.

Although the major seems to be a serious grinder checking out the YouTube vids, I just don't think I can put it anywhere that will, make it inconspicuous but also be close enough to the L1 to be practical.

steve


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It does not have to go with the major, plus I will more than likely have everynpiece of kit you would need to get set up, I will get some photos up once I have time to take them!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

The queue for a second hand E37s seems to be getting ever longer.........


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes I'd need something more akin to a mignon in size, in chrome or black, something that will sit aside the L1 and look the dogs without cramping the worktop. Also need decent PFs, baskets, and nicely fitting tamps, a knockbox, maybe a tamp station. Basically I need kitting out with a serious but attractive bunch of kit.

Although the major seems to be a serious grinder checking out the YouTube vids, I just don't think I can put it anywhere that will, make it inconspicuous but also be close enough to the L1 to be practical.

steve


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

:good:


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Greenblood said:


> Yes I'd need something more akin to a mignon in size, in chrome or black, something that will sit aside the L1 and look the dogs without cramping the worktop. Also need decent PFs, baskets, and nicely fitting tamps, a knockbox, maybe a tamp station. Basically I need kitting out with a serious but attractive bunch of kit.
> 
> Although the major seems to be a serious grinder checking out the YouTube vids, I just don't think I can put it anywhere that will, make it inconspicuous but also be close enough to the L1 to be practical.
> 
> steve


you do realise, that the grinder is actually more important than the coffee machine. By that, I mean that the machine just makes coffee with whatever old junk you put into it......and as good as a Mignon is, it is entry level with small burrs so you will be seriously limiting the potential output of your L1


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## Greenblood (Jun 8, 2017)

Yes I do realise I'm not going to realise it's full potential, but I have to live with my wife..... so asthetics matter...and so does size!(apparently;-) so softly softly and all that...I hope to be able to go for something more astchetiacly pleasing at some time in the future that will be up to extracting the L1s full potential.

steve


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Might be worth bearing in mind that most users of a major on here do not have the ridiculously large hopper on the top they tend to have either a short hopper or a camera bellow type so not as large as the L1 Lux if that makes sense (or not much bigger)

Hope of help

John


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