# Ignorance to good advice?



## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

A question for all my coffee loving friends









Do you tend to get a lot of stubbourn people who refuse to believe/accept advice or views on how to make decent coffee?

I appreciate that coffee is subjective. There is no wrong and right way but there are good guidelines and rules to follow as a base.

Case in point. Being told that Pre ground coffee (Bought from say Hasbean) will taste virtually no different after a week to when it first comes out of the grinder and that basically saying that after a very short time pre ground coffee will loss its flavours very quickly is rubbish fed to me by coffee snobs.

It seems to be either people are happy to test out a coffee and will fall in love with it or they just refuse to and continue to believe that a week old Pre Ground tastes just as good.

It should not bug me but it does..... What do you guys encoutner when trying to get across your enthusiasm about great coffee


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## dabac (Oct 2, 2013)

Living in Italy, I think it's redundant to say that it's next to impossible to explain to people that:

1)there's a huge difference between artisan roasters using nice, freshly roasted high-quality Arabica beans and commercial roasters such as Illy and Lavazza selling stale beans

2)Italy is not the best coffee-producing country in the world, and that e.g. UK, Sweden and Denmark are miles ahead atm

But yeah, I've managed to "convert" a couple of my colleagues - they've stopped using the "coffee" from the machine and started buying fresh coffee beans. They've both purchased aeropress, and I'm grinding for them every few days (although I envision that soon enough they might dig in and buy grinders themselves). The rest of the people usually start rolling their eyes if I start talking about advantages of freshly grinded vs. pre-ground coffee..


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Sometimes it is like banging your head against a brick wall, I would love to get someone round and show them the difference between ground 5 seconds ago and ground 5 days ago, it is like night and day, surprised the Aussies are saying that though.


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

It was stated that coffee ground a week ago will still retain 95% of its flavour!!! When asked to back these up I am told I am a snob and being fed this rubbish by some coffee god somewhere who dictates what is correct.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yep plus one to everything you say. Just had a conversation at work where my moccamaster has been in a week using a small grinder to make fresh brew. Today I didn't make any as am out of beans and am on holiday for a week, but after half am hour I was asked , where's the nice coffee, I can't drink the instant anymore .......

On one hand a good thing , but they expect me to buy it ! Off to atkinsons to get them a treat to brew for lunch though. I'm too soft


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Coffee ground a week ago from beans roasted a week before is still a billion times better than grounds from the supermarket ^_^

But yea, I dont share the coffee love so much at work, would only be turning myself into the coffee maid.


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

No doubt it is better than Supermarket but this person is not using Supermarket beans but Monmouth ones. But to state a week old ground is 95% of what Freshly ground is, is just silly.

Personally people can drink what they please. No skin of my nose but when they cannot admit what they are saying is completely wrong it makes me a little sad inside.

I have made Aeropress for quite a few here. Most loved it. HOwever myself and another work colleague share my Aeropress and split the coffee cost which works well


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## spinningwoman (Sep 25, 2013)

It's like anything. I can't see why anyone wants HD tv, never mind 3D, but then I couldn't see the point of replacing our 15" portable with a gigantic(!) 30" flat screen a few years back. Now, if I tried to go back to the portable, I daresay I'd find it unwatchable. I can't imagine being able to tell the difference between listening music fed through gold connectors, but I'm prepared to believe some do and find the difference worth it.

My family cheerfully mock my coffee 'hobby' but my husband was saying the other day that he finds it hard to drink instant any more, and now my kids are back at Uni my son has said he resents being asked to pay coffee shop prices for something less good than his mum makes. He was wondering about a Nespresso machine, but I pointed out that as he drinks it with milk, he'd have to learn to steam properly at least in order to get anything he is happy with, so he might as well bite the bullet and do it properly. I think he's the most likely candidate for a full conversion. Like me, he likes to acquire practical skills, and gets pleasure out of doing stuff right. He used to watch me cook and ask questions like why I use this knife for this task and that knife for that. He still can't cook, but he's studying medicine, so maybe it rubbed off somehow!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Know a guy who's seriously into wine and will happily pay top dollar but only drinks Nescafe - weird, given coffee is over three times more complex than wine in terms of constituent taste and aroma elements.

It's an interesting question so I'll pose it. Why are some people drawn to going that extra mile to get the very best out of coffee while others are happy to settle with mediocre??


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

spinningwoman said:


> I can't imagine being able to tell the difference between listening music fed through gold connectors, but I'm prepared to believe some do and find the difference worth it.


This reminds me of an article that pointed out some self confessed audiophiles couldn't tell the difference between Monster Cables and coat hangers - Engadget Admittedly Monster dont have the best reputation, but they make their cables with the same approaches as the more reputable brands.

It also highlights the prevalence of Placebo in anything like this.

On the ground coffee thing, I would say if you kept ground coffee in a sealable bag with as little air as possible the difference in taste would be minimal after a week, especially when the drink is a long one and even more if its milk based. If it was left open on the side on the other hand I would expect there to be a major difference.

I always like to think of the stale bread analogy when it comes to how coffee goes off. I.e. if you crumb a fresh piece of bread it will all stale in a matter of minutes, where as a whole piece would take many hours to fully stale. This compares to ground vs whole bean. But the same analogy would apply to leaving bread bag open over resealing it, even a bread bin is enough protection to keep bread from staling, where as in the open it just takes an hour or two.

Obviously bread and coffee are vastly different beasts, but the point is the same


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Also you hit the nail on the head nicely. I love acquiring new skills and like on the whole to do them properly to the best of my ability with what is available. Some people I guess like to settle or feel it is good enough.

I always tell people to visit a coffee shop that does it properly. Give them a list and they ignore it and go to Starbucks...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

There is in old saying that "mediocrity knows no better". I have the greatest of respect for those who strive to do better and people on the forum are almost always trying to go that extra mile.


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

twistywizard said:


> It was stated that coffee ground a week ago will still retain 95% of its flavour!!! When asked to back these up I am told I am a snob and being fed this rubbish by some coffee god somewhere who dictates what is correct.


 That's what makes you a snob? Snobs welcome here then!

Now should I make myself an espresso with my rested for 10 days Jampit, or use some old pre-ground stuff? Hmmm decisions decisions


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Hmm I would still say the difference would be very noticeable unless you drowned it big time in Milk. I know when I have before ground enough coffee for the whole day and kept it in a sealed container it tastes very different after about even 8 hours. Made using Aeropress or with milk.



D_Evans said:


> On the ground coffee thing, I would say if you kept ground coffee in a sealable bag with as little air as possible the difference in taste would be minimal after a week, especially when the drink is a long one and even more if its milk based. If it was left open on the side on the other hand I would expect there to be a major difference.


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

El carajillo said:


> There is in old saying that "mediocrity knows no better". I have the greatest of respect for those who strive to do better and people on the forum are almost always trying to go that extra mile.


Agree with this. Most peoples journey has started with Instant and moved on from there. A long time ago I dabbled with a Gaggia not knowing what I was doing and making average at best coffee. Then one day I visiting Kaffiene in London. Back along when they first opened and WOW!! It blew me away how good it could be. The Journety started there for me, I lost interest briefly but came back a few years ago









I think some people like to try and do the best they can with things. A chap on this forum Mike when I first met him said he was thinking of getting a machine. I pushed him towards a Silvia and it started there for him as well, and now he has a Rocket and we love our coffee. He loves to do things properly as well.

Some people either dont know what it could/should taste like or some just don't care...


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## gmason (Aug 9, 2012)

I don't even try. It's not worth the effort.

I have a handful of friends that really appreciate good coffee and have many that believe they do as they head to the High Street coffee franchaise to buy a pint of cappuccino to take to the office. At best, it's a coffee flavoured drink that bears little relation to what cappuccino should be, but it's what they expect and are therefore happy with it. They've been trained.

A friend of mine is a chef and he recently had a couple complaining about the chicken they were served. They didn't like the texture. The chickens were top-end free range, but if your palette is used to the supermarket budget variety, you are immediately out of your comfort zone.

It is nice though when someone wants to know more and hopefully we can point them in the right direction without being snobbish, boring or patronising about it.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Yep agree with all of the above. My good natured work colleagues bought me a capa from Starbucks today, it was absolutely terrible. I couldn't actually finish it.

I think with all this good coffee appreciation I'm ruined.... for the better


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

twistywizard said:


> Hmm I would still say the difference would be very noticeable unless you drowned it big time in Milk. I know when I have before ground enough coffee for the whole day and kept it in a sealed container it tastes very different after about even 8 hours. Made using Aeropress or with milk.


Totally agree, there is a vast difference in taste between 1 minute old coffee and 10 minute old coffee, putting ground into an air tight sealed container slows the process down but does not stall it, the ground coffee in a sealed container is still degenerating just not as fast and after a week even vacuum sealed coffee is technically stale, it might be acceptable in a milk based drink for some but not for me


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

Certainly more noticeable as Black. However still noticed it in milk. Again might be down to the individuals perception of really good coffee, tastebuds or what is acceptable.

One thing I have noticed since drinking coffee and getting into it, I hace developed a massive taste and appreciation for Red Wine. Before hand I was not a fan. However now I can pick out different notes and tastes fairly well, where as I tend to find White one a bit too acidic....


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

dabac said:


> Living in Italy, I think it's redundant to say that it's next to impossible to explain to people that:
> 
> 1)there's a huge difference between artisan roasters using nice, freshly roasted high-quality Arabica beans and commercial roasters such as Illy and Lavazza selling stale beans
> 
> ...


Italians are very conservative. They know how to make their style of coffee extremely well, in fact I've never had a really bad coffee in Italy. But, beyond the narrow confines of medium-dark roasted Brazilian beans put through an espresso machine they don't know anything.

Problem is they don't know that they don't know









But, do you know what? That's up to them


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I was not suggesting there was absolutely no difference between coffee that just ground to coffee that is a few hours old, but the difference, obviously in my opinion, would be minimal.

Evidently the only way to properly prove such a thing is with a blind taste test, as taste, much like our other senses is incredibly subjective and can be heavily influenced simply by what we perceive to be fact in our mind. It is undoubtable that coffee goes stale with age and that the flavour deteriorates, but the suggested speed is something which I don't think is so clear cut.

I absolutely accept that my coffee tastes are not nearly as refined as many on here (my fave drink is still a flat white, and espresso is still too bitter for me without sugar) and that could simply be the reason for me being less accepting of the suggestion that coffee goes off so rapidly, but without some sort of real evidence or data to the contrary I also think it could just be peoples 'perceived' taste.

As a good example I understand that there was discussion around wether you could freeze freshly roasted beans, with similar opinions on both sides of the argument, until a proper blind taste test was done which pretty much proved that you can, in fact, freeze freshly roasted beans without affecting the flavour.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I think you may have hit the nail on the head, espresso is seldom bitter when prepared correctly perhaps that could be a focus for you so that you might then appreciate the subtle differences between coffee ground and sealed and freshly ground coffee. Like I said before I noticed the difference.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I think you may have hit the nail on the head, espresso is seldom bitter when prepared correctly perhaps that could be a focus for you so that you might then appreciate the subtle differences between coffee ground and sealed and freshly ground coffee. Like I said before I noticed the difference.


Should try the mid point ristretto !


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The test you refer to was done over the water in a land where nothing is ever done unless it has a commercial benefit to someone. Then some bigmouth comes on and informs everyone and they all bow to his superior knowledge on the matter.

Once you grind a bean, you expose it to the air, and that begins the staling process. Yes, you make bread and butter pudding from stale bread, and I am sure there might be the odd other use for it. You make coffee from freshly ground beans and nothing else. If you decide to grind your beans and they find a method of storing them then you are kidding yourself, unless you are happy to accept second or third rate drinks, or of course your knowledge/taste buds know no better.

With DSOL, it has been found that many beans are just starting to come to their best 21 days after roasting, whereas the generic blurb handed out says rest for 2 to 3 days then consume within one month. Whereas you can go to a Supermarket and buy ground coffee in a foil bag with a sell by date of a couple of years. You open it, savour the wonderful aroma but go back to it after an hour and see what it smells of!


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

twistywizard said:


> A question for all my coffee loving friends
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The biggest problem is that "getting across ... enthusiasm about great coffee" often results in one or a few people seeking to control the coffees of everyone else to the extent that their coffee is "great" and everyone else's is only fit for the rubbish bin. But that's not confined to coffee: We also find it in, for example, music.

The other problem is applying a pervasive description to a particular coffee or roast to the extent that other people pass it on without even trying the coffee and so a fallacy is propagated. An example is dark roast: We've all seen the description of taste of charcoal and burnt toast, bitter, strong. But there are different ways of producing a dark roast. We can roast it at high temperature until it's burnt thereby destroying the sugars and oil which should have been retained in the bean. Or we can take our time and roast it slowly at a low temperature so that the sugar and oil is retained and avoid the charcoal and bitterness.

Another problem is the assignment of Robusta to the ranks of a cheap filler which is best avoided by the serious coffee drinker: Roast it slowly in butter with a smidgin of sugar and cocoa, then grind it medium coarse, drip brew it strong and add a little condensed milk and the result is ... fudge ... with enough caffeine to wake a sleeping devil. Or what is better known as Ca Phe Sua in Vietnam. And that's from 100% Robusta!

In conclusion all of us have our own tastes and preferences and who is to say that one person's likes and preferences is better that someone else's. Or to put it another way, one person's adviser is another person's control freak!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I think there is a tiny difference here because in my experience if I make people a coffee for the first time, without fail they remark upon it , usually along the lines of 'that's amazing'

If they ask about it, I'll tell them. But that is all, and I'd never go through peoples cupboards pulling out the instant and asking why they drink that shit. They may drink it and crap filter coffee because they don't realise there is an alternative. However, its up to them to find that out for themselves.


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

I fully agree with what you say, like I said if someone wants to drink instant or Supermarket coffee that is fine. Makes no odds to me.. I was just commenting on the reluctance of someone to listen and even consider a different view point. My point is valid though older stale/instant coffee prepared in the same manner i.e 'correctly' for brew method will taste worse than a fresher recently ground cofee. In that instance I would say yes the taste is better and the user is not usually aware what it can taste like.



Anthorn said:


> The biggest problem is that "getting across ... enthusiasm about great coffee" often results in one or a few people seeking to control the coffees of everyone else to the extent that their coffee is "great" and everyone else's is only fit for the rubbish bin. But that's not confined to coffee: We also find it in, for example, music.
> 
> The other problem is applying a pervasive description to a particular coffee or roast to the extent that other people pass it on without even trying the coffee and so a fallacy is propagated. An example is dark roast: We've all seen the description of taste of charcoal and burnt toast, bitter, strong. But there are different ways of producing a dark roast. We can roast it at high temperature until it's burnt thereby destroying the sugars and oil which should have been retained in the bean. Or we can take our time and roast it slowly at a low temperature so that the sugar and oil is retained and avoid the charcoal and bitterness.
> 
> ...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Coffee has three times more constituent aroma/taste elements than wine yet wine is afforded, generally, much more reverence for its variety and complexity. With such a complex volatile product like coffee, getting the best out of it is always going to be a challenge possibly bordering on an obsession. The frustration with pursuing excellence is, like achieving better hi-fi sound, logarithmic - that is, you put more in, in terms of time, effort and cost for smaller and smaller incremental gains - particularly in relation to espresso. Is it worth it - well, that's up to the individual. So, what's your cut off point??


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> So, what's your cut off point??


My wife tells me I'm now at my cut off point... any more purchases and we'll be at our cut-off point









Thank God for the raffles and prize draws!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Daren said:


> My wife tells me I'm now at my cut off point... any more purchases and we'll be at our cut-off point


Lucky for me, my wife has become a convert. Defining moment was a cupping event which she really got into.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Daren said:


> My wife tells me I'm now at my cut off point... any more purchases and we'll be at our cut-off point
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Genius , currently looking at adding one more thing to the work top , then I may have exhausted the good will at my house too.

But I suspect mrs b has kindly bought me a syphon to make coffee with as well for my bday, now then that would need a brew grinder as well . How bit was the santos at the BB day


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Genius , currently looking at adding one more thing to the work top , then I may have exhausted the good will at my house too.
> 
> But I suspect mrs b has kindly bought me a syphon to make coffee with as well for my bday, now then that would need a brew grinder as well . How bit was the santos at the BB day


I'm out of luck buying stuff now, although I am eyeing up a tanzania or santos :/


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Know a guy who's seriously into wine and will happily pay top dollar but only drinks Nescafe - weird, given coffee is over three times more complex than wine in terms of constituent taste and aroma elements.
> 
> It's an interesting question so I'll pose it. Why are some people drawn to going that extra mile to get the very best out of coffee while others are happy to settle with mediocre??


I also love wine, wine does have the added benifit of getting you drunk though!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> The test you refer to was done over the water in a land where nothing is ever done unless it has a commercial benefit to someone. Then some bigmouth comes on and informs everyone and they all bow to his superior knowledge on the matter.
> 
> Once you grind a bean, you expose it to the air, and that begins the staling process. Yes, you make bread and butter pudding from stale bread, and I am sure there might be the odd other use for it. You make coffee from freshly ground beans and nothing else. If you decide to grind your beans and they find a method of storing them then you are kidding yourself, unless you are happy to accept second or third rate drinks, or of course your knowledge/taste buds know no better.
> 
> With DSOL, it has been found that many beans are just starting to come to their best 21 days after roasting, whereas the generic blurb handed out says rest for 2 to 3 days then consume within one month. Whereas you can go to a Supermarket and buy ground coffee in a foil bag with a sell by date of a couple of years. You open it, savour the wonderful aroma but go back to it after an hour and see what it smells of!


The article I refer to: http://www.home-barista.com/store-coffee-in-freezer.html

Maybe I missed where they were advertising the ACME super home coffee freezer, but this test seems perfectly legitimate to me, there are also accounts on their forums from people as much into their coffee as those here who attest to the results. You cannot discount a test simply because it happened in America.

My point is just because there is a point of view held by those who consider themselves experts does not make it gospel. This goes for freezing coffee beans or believing a gold cable will make your picture better.

I just want to make absolutely clear that I am talking about the idea that an hour or two will dramatically change the taste of ground coffee, the original post objected to the notion that "ground coffee retains 90% of its flavour after X hours", I am happy to object to the made up statistic, but it probably isn't too far off. I absolutely accept that if you grind up a kg of beans and store them in a bag the taste will substantially deteriorate over the following days/weeks. What I don't immediately subscribe to is the idea that this will happen over mere minutes or hours.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I used to get beans ground at my local roaster for espresso (whilst waiting for a grinder ) . They were sealed up , I noticed a change in crema and taste from the first cup in the morning (when say half an hour old ) to the one post lunch (3 hours or so ) . It's like espresso taste in general ,some people scan taste a lot more notes than me and have a more developed palate etc . Perhaps this is no different .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

As previously posted, when you make espresso that isn't bitter that doesn't need to be masked with milk then you may notice the subtle differences of super fresh and not super fresh.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> As previously posted, when you make espresso that isn't bitter that doesn't need to be masked with milk then you may notice the subtle differences of super fresh and not super fresh.


Indeed, as I said when it comes to espresso the taste changes would be more exaggerated, but this thread referred to long drinks, not espresso.

It's also worth saying that I have had espresso in many independent and capable coffee shops, and I make a capable shot myself (and yes, I do grind fresh ^_^) and whilst the bitterness is nothing like what you might get from dry grinds it is always there in some form. The best espresso I have had I might describe it as more of an intensity of flavour than outright bitterness, but still it is not to my palette.

For me it is not about "masking the flavour" of the coffee with milk, I just prefer that taste. You could give me the best espresso in the world, that most agrees with my palette, but I would still prefer it as a flat white.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It would seem some of the respected players stateside would agree with you

http://la.eater.com/archives/2013/06/28/go_get_em_tiger_a_polished_larchmont_coffee_bar.php


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Coffee has three times more constituent aroma/taste elements than wine yet wine is afforded, generally, much more reverence for its variety and complexity. With such a complex volatile product like coffee, getting the best out of it is always going to be a challenge possibly bordering on an obsession. The frustration with pursuing excellence is, like achieving better hi-fi sound, logarithmic - that is, you put more in, in terms of time, effort and cost for smaller and smaller incremental gains - particularly in relation to espresso. Is it worth it - well, that's up to the individual. So, what's your cut off point??


I wasn't aware that coffee has more constituent aroma/taste.

For me, and I speak as someone who loves coffee and wine, there is no comparison. The tasting notes I get from good wine, whilst being much subtler are also much more varied and interesting. As well as choc, floral, fruit ect that you get with coffee you also get much more earthy aromas and tastes along with weird things like blood and meat. I also occasionally pick up blood notes in coffee but it's less often and more of a feel than taste.

For me personally it deserves it's reverence.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

At the members' day at BB, Glenn and Nadine brought along a coffee aroma kit comprising 36 key aromas which break down into seven key categories - floral, fruity, spicy etc. It was interesting to smell the aromas blind and try and name them - some were easy - 'vanilla', 'caramel' - some were really difficult - e.g. 'earth'. The kit is a great way to help educate the senses to the key aromas a lot of which are so fleeting, they've gone before your brain has had time to figure out what they might be.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@D_Evans............if you want to believe that load of tosh then you are welcome. The line, 'Sourcing truly fresh coffee can be difficult. The options include:' sums it up for me. Unless you live in the Highlands and Islands access to freshly roasted coffee is not dfficult. Rave for example, do next day delivey on orders over £25 free.

I have home roasted and now do not I have experimented myself with home freezing. My observations are this: you are probably happy with the shots you pull, based on your skill sets and the type pf kit you have. When you go up to high end kit, it is either because you are showing off or because you genuinely believe you have more in you and can produce a better quality of coffee. Believe me, if you fit into the latter, then you will not be buying beans and freezing them just on the basis that some users on HB have got together to say differently.

That of course is just my humble opinion which is equally as valid or not as yours.


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> ...weird, given coffee is over three times more complex than wine in terms of constituent taste and aroma elements.


Where does the three times bit come from? I'm quite prepared to believe it, but nonetheless intereted.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

There you go


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

This one's clearer on my phone at least.









Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

I've seen a couple of mentions of wine on this thread.. If I may (feel free to shoot me down) I'd like to publicise a one-man operation in Otley, W.Yorks called Chez Vin. David is interested in his subject, so worth approaching in person. He's having his bi-annual Wine Fair on Friday 25th October in Otley Rugby Club.. an opportunity to taste dozens of different wines at different prices. Well worth a tenner, I'm going meself! We mostly shop with him these days, and can always remember just why we bought each bottle.

He has the same kind of vibe as the couple of small coffee operations I've had contact with so far.


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## twistywizard (Sep 3, 2012)

My original post quoted 90% over a WEEK not a few hours! This then led onto the simple act of leaving it ground in a container for 8 hours substantially changed the taste (For the worst) using the same brew method, temps etc.



D_Evans said:


> The article I refer to: http://www.home-barista.com/store-coffee-in-freezer.html
> 
> Maybe I missed where they were advertising the ACME super home coffee freezer, but this test seems perfectly legitimate to me, there are also accounts on their forums from people as much into their coffee as those here who attest to the results. You cannot discount a test simply because it happened in America.
> 
> ...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

geordie-barista said:


> This one's clearer on my phone at least.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's genius , its like a something from Alan partridge or Brass Eye


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> That's genius , its like a something from Alan partridge or Brass Eye


Smell my cheese you mother!

Sorry - Partridge tourettes moment


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Daren said:


> Smell my cheese you mother!
> 
> Sorry - Partridge tourettes moment


Monkey tennis ? Youth hosteling with Chris Eubanks ?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> @D_Evans............if you want to believe that load of tosh then you are welcome. The line, 'Sourcing truly fresh coffee can be difficult. The options include:' sums it up for me. Unless you live in the Highlands and Islands access to freshly roasted coffee is not dfficult. Rave for example, do next day delivey on orders over £25 free.
> 
> I have home roasted and now do not I have experimented myself with home freezing. My observations are this: you are probably happy with the shots you pull, based on your skill sets and the type pf kit you have. When you go up to high end kit, it is either because you are showing off or because you genuinely believe you have more in you and can produce a better quality of coffee. Believe me, if you fit into the latter, then you will not be buying beans and freezing them just on the basis that some users on HB have got together to say differently.
> 
> That of course is just my humble opinion which is equally as valid or not as yours.


Or I win a machine in a raffle that will totally shame my skills











twistywizard said:


> My original post quoted 90% over a WEEK not a few hours! This then led onto the simple act of leaving it ground in a container for 8 hours substantially changed the taste (For the worst) using the same brew method, temps etc.


Sorry I misquoted you, a week would be another thing entirely.

I just think there is a tendency to take certain things as gospel truth when they rely completely on our very subjective taste buds. But safe to say it is all opinion and it all provides for healthy debate. I'll come back to this in a couple of years when I (hopefully) get more out of espresso and am running my own chain of coffee shops


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