# Mazzer 83mm Titanium burrs



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Just seen some "Genuine Mazzer" Ti burrs on ebay.

Here's the rub...

They are listed at £75.

This is less than half the normal price. What's the catch?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

How do you know they are "genuine Mazzer burrs". There was a thread last week ? about Ti and how it is applied and the problems .


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

How would anybody know?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Who is to know. These days the counterfeiters are so clever. I remember not long ago, BMW were found to have bought in truck loads of counterfeit goods in error, so what chance do we have? Why would anyone sell genuine burrs half price....for a variety of reasons I guess


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Less than half price - probably fake.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

Standard burrs and a tin of gold spray I suspect...

Glad that my Royal came with some and should outlast me. No need to worry about getting ripped off.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

When a set of regular burrs will live as long as the average user, even £75 is steep.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

Dylan said:


> When a set of regular burrs will live as long as the average user, even £75 is steep.


If I wasn't running ti burrs and needed new ones I'm pretty sure I'd only be buying regular


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Mr O said:


> If I wasn't running ti burrs and needed new ones I'm pretty sure I'd only be buying regular


Precisely this. It's about £20 tops for a set of genuine steel ones and they will outlive any amount of home use.


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

risky said:


> It's about £20 tops for a set of genuine steel ones and they will outlive any amount of home use.


20£ for original 83mm Mazzer burrs ? Do you have a source ? I would be very interested.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

My SJ burrs cost me £23, although you can get them for just under £20 on fleabay, the postage bumps it up. Glad my Major came with Ti burrs.. Was a nice surprise really.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Terranova said:


> 20£ for original 83mm Mazzer burrs ? Do you have a source ? I would be very interested.


Apologies I was thinking of SJ burrs.


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

I have read some statements of Colin Hamon about higher TDS of 1.5% just because of TiN coated burrs, I was very sceptical that a 3um (0,003mm) thick coating has any influence on extraction yield, today Sasa Sestic told me the same.

1.5% higher tds by various coatings, (TiCN, TiN, DLC)

So a coating is not only for a long lasting burr life time.

He will show his findings at the host in Milan later this year.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

That's very interesting! I'd always assumed it was purely for longevity. Do you think the extra EY was the reason for the coatings or a happy by-product of making long-life burrs?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I doubt it would be to do with extraction. It's minimal, and besides I don't think Mazzer give a shit about that. They are geared towards commercial advantages (eg longevity of parts)


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

Coefficiency of friction plays a major part.

So it is not about the thickness of the coating.

To know exactly what's going on, some needs to test it on equally aligned grinders.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> I doubt it would be to do with extraction. It's minimal, and besides I don't think Mazzer give a shit about that. They are geared towards commercial advantages (eg longevity of parts)


1.5%TDS higher is far from "minimal".


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mythos One burrs are also in this coating and they did extensive research , many many many sets of burrs


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Mythos One burrs are also in this coating and they did extensive research , many many many sets of burrs


Garry, if you had the ability to buy just one grinder now, would you Ek or Clima or something else


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Mythos One burrs are also in this coating and they did extensive research , many many many sets of burrs


are the mythos one burrs different to the mythos ti burrs


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> are the mythos one burrs different to the mythos ti burrs


Ti burrs do not exist, even if a grinder producer would say so at his HP it is a marketing gag.

The costs of cutting / milling tools to work with Titanium are another league and cost more than 20 times than those for steel.

The steel being used for burrs is much harder than Ti.

There wouldn't be any advantage to use Ti (Titanium) burrs.

It is always a TiN coating. ( In the best case )


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mythos One burrs have ''Mythos One'' engraved on the backs, 99% sure they are unique for that grinder


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Terranova said:


> Ti burrs do not exist, even if a grinder producer would say so at his HP it is a marketing gag.
> 
> The costs of cutting / milling tools to work with Titanium are another league and cost more than 20 times than those for steel.
> 
> ...


frank I know this, they are commonly referred to as Ti burrs, pretty much everyone knows it is a coating


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Garry, if you had the ability to buy just one grinder now, would you Ek or Clima or something else


Given that I drink more filter than espresso/espresso based drinks then it would be the EK.

If you rephrased the question ability to buy one grinder dedicated 100 for espresso only it would be the Mythos, even for home use.

EDIT - Id have both ; )


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Terranova said:


> The costs of cutting / milling tools to work with Titanium are another league and cost more than 20 times than those for steel.
> 
> The steel being used for burrs is much harder than Ti.
> 
> ...


This is sort of half right. Titanium has great strength to weight ratio. It offers good strength when low weight is important. In a grinder scenario however, weight isn't important but long life and high strength is. As you have pointed out, the steel used to make grinder burrs is actually tougher than titanium.

The machining costs for titanium will actually be lower. Titanium doesn't require special tooling. I can machine titanium with the same tools I would use to machine aluminium. They will wear slightly quicker but nowhere near as quickly as they would if I were to start machining hardened steel.

The reason solid Ti isn't used is because it would be extortionately expensive and actually not a very appropriate material. As you said, the steel used for burrs is actually harder and therefore a better choice of material anyway.


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

risky said:


> The machining costs for titanium will actually be lower. Titanium doesn't require special tooling. I can machine titanium with the same tools I would use to machine aluminium. They will wear slightly quicker but nowhere near as quickly as they would if I were to start machining hardened steel.


About which Titanium grade are you talking about ?

Comparing apples with oranges doesn't make sense.

Do you really think that the steel for the burrs is getting hardened and then machined ?

It is the other way around exepted the flat grinding on a flat grinding bench which is the last step in machining burrs.

I don't want to be disrespectful, but I don't see much sense to continue a discussion like this.

@ Coffeechap Ti = Titanium and TiN = Titannitrid, but if it is normal for you to spell it wrong, than it's ok.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Terranova said:


> About which Titanium grade are you talking about ?
> 
> Comparing apples with oranges doesn't make sense.
> 
> ...


Frank clearly your concept of English is poor or its the idiosyncrasies' of our beloved language, but when I or in fact pretty much most of the people on our humble little forum refer to "Ti" burrs it means TiN coated burrs, not sure what your issue is, or why it is more often than not aimed at me, but cant we all just get along?


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Frank clearly your concept of English is poor or its the idiosyncrasies' of our beloved language, but when I or in fact pretty much most of the people on our humble little forum refer to "Ti" burrs it means TiN coated burrs, not sure what your issue is, or why it is more often than not aimed at me, but cant we all just get along?


Like I said, for me it is ok however you call it, I just thought you were referring to Titanium and not just a TiN coating.

I am sorry if my English doesn't qualify for this forum.


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## robashton (May 9, 2015)

Um, posted in the wrong thread by mistake (Serves me right for getting up at 4am and addling my brain)









(Can't work out how to delete posts so...)


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## Taff (May 5, 2015)

I wonder if these burrs have the same geometry as the standard ones. It's said the main thing Mahlkonig have changed with the peak is the geometry, and motor power. I'd say a TiN coated burr is easier for a motor to turn, so they could make the geometry more aggressive and change the way it grinds which I'd say was more of a reason for a better extraction than just the coating.


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