# Gicleur lowdown



## teejay41 (Mar 9, 2015)

Can anyone enlighten me please on the effect of exchanging a 'standard' gicleur for a finer one?

I believe that E61 machines normally come fitted with either a 0.6 or 0.8mm gicleur, but that 0.5mm is considered to be better. In what way is it better, and if it is indeed better, why aren't machines supplied fitted with a smaller gicleur in the first place?

I am aware that the gicleur influences the flow rate of the brew water through the group but what in practical terms of pulling a shot would be the effect of reducing it?

Machine is Quick Mill Verona... I'd be interested to know just what gicleur size is fitted as supplied.

Thanks in anticipation,

Tony.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Some in here http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?15093-Messing-with-my-Verona-(water-debit-(jets)-brew-pressure-Blu-Tack-lube)&highlight=gicleur


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

teejay41 said:


> Can anyone enlighten me please on the effect of exchanging a 'standard' gicleur for a finer one?
> 
> I believe that E61 machines normally come fitted with either a 0.6 or 0.8mm gicleur, but that 0.5mm is considered to be better. In what way is it better, and if it is indeed better, why aren't machines supplied fitted with a smaller gicleur in the first place?
> 
> ...


Not nessesarily better or worse, different. I believe that it was an improvement to my verona for my taste and ability. The stock verona jet is more like 1mm and the flow rate it high. This can increase the chance of channeling IMHO. The 0.5mm jet slows things down and makes life easier to extract.

If you are using dark roast coffee it probably wouldn't make too much difference as the shots behave differently. For lighter roasts I think the slower flow can help a fair bit.

If you are able to make great tasting shots already then it's probably not worth swapping.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Might put my 0./5mm one in tomorrow night, looked it out recently


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## teejay41 (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks Spence.

If you are able to make great tasting shots already then it's probably not worth swapping.

I'll swap!

Tony.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I believe the Gicleur on the Verona is 0.7mm. Moving to a smaller size on that type of machine only makes any significant difference if it can affect the flow rate when under pressure and extracting. If it has no real effect on flow rate, then it won't really help the shot. The only thing it might do in that circumstance, is moderate the ramp pressure on the E61 and lengthen the pre-infusion phase....this may or may not have a beneficial effect on *some* shots, beans roasts.

Assume your double is a flow rate of 50ml in 25s once the portafilter comes under pressure, if your smaller Gicleur makes that 50ml in 40s, then you might see a difference... you would count this time from the first appearance of espresso. If the time is the same after the espresso begins to extract, then there is no scientific reason why you should see a difference...apart from any minimal effect on preinfusion.

If you go really small in your desire to achieve a significant difference, then you risk blockages...unless your water is really really clean.

P.S. The effect of a gecleur size change is a little more pronounced on a Vibe pump machine...but again, mainly during the initial preinfusion phase.


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## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

teejay41 said:


> I believe that E61 machines normally come fitted with either a 0.6 or 0.8mm gicleur, but that 0.5mm is considered to be better. In what way is it better, and if it is indeed better, why aren't machines supplied fitted with a smaller gicleur in the first place?
> 
> I am aware that the gicleur influences the flow rate of the brew water through the group but what in practical terms of pulling a shot would be the effect of reducing it?


0.5mm is a very small gicleur. The difference this will make depends, of course, on what gicleur you have now. But in general, switching from say, a 1mm to a 0.5mm will have these effects:

1. initial wetting of the puck will be slower

2. channeling may be reduced

3. flow rate after the initial wetting will be slightly FASTER

4. #3 may allow you to grind a little finer

5. grinding finer will allow slightly easier extraction of light roasts

6. maintenance requirements will increase because the small gicleur will scale and clog more easily.

If you prefer darker roasts, don't bother. If you live on the bleeding edge of light roasting, the 0.5mm may be helpful.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

This is what I love about this forum, you learn something new every day. Today I learned that 'Gicleur' is French for 'Jet' and you're talking about a nut with a hole in it. Boy you are some serious coffee aficionados.

Is this what happens, when in all innocence you swap your Nescafe and start with something like a Gaggia and a hand grinder? I'd better warn my other half.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Pompeyexile said:


> This is what I love about this forum, you learn something new every day. Today I learned that 'Gicleur' is French for 'Jet' and you're talking about a nut with a hole in it. Boy you are some serious coffee aficionados.
> 
> Is this what happens, when in all innocence you swap your Nescafe and start with something like a Gaggia and a hand grinder? I'd better warn my other half.


It's a slippery slope mate


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