# Yet another Classic



## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Here is my set up.

Gagging Classic with Auber PID

Eureka Zenith 65e grinder.

Still learning lots and working out how it all works


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Nice!

Looks very much like what is in my kitchen tonight for the last time, as I have recently acquired a Zenith and the Classic is off to pastures new tomorrow.

I don't expect to ever have 2 grinders and 2 machines in my tiny kitchen again! Thought I'd better take a couple of comparison pics while I could.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

you lucky thing!! I really really want a Rocket! Huge step up from the Classic I bet


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I've got a toaster like yours....


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Cheers Aaron, yes, the Rocket is a massive step up! I still think I need my head testing, I drive around in a beat-up old car that's done 10,000 miles a year for the last 16 years and I have the Mercedes of coffee machines in my little kitchen! My "coffee corner" is more like a "coffee half" now! But I absolutely love it. When I first joined the forum and saw these in the "show off your setup" section I dreamed of having a machine like this one day. Didn't think it would actually happen, but I stumbled upon a lightly used Version 1 machine. And the grinder to go with it. I don't usually luck out but recently this forum and its members have been good to me!

Making great espresso is now very easy with the consistent temperature and pressure from a 9lb E61 group and rotary pump. I'm still trying to master the steam power though - with a modded Classic you've all the time in the world to get your microfoam. With a Rocket (or Verona/Brewtus/Duetto etc etc) you have to re-learn, because it all happens very quickly and the milk gets up to temperature very quickly, while one false move sees you fighting the bubble monster. Also, a 2-hole tip means you have to keep the wand a lot more vertical than a single-hole. I've had a couple of weeks of practice and can now make passable milk some of the time, but you won't see me posting on Free Pour Friday any time soon I fear&#8230; though I can see that it will be possible to get much better results once I can learn the technique. It's like going from a moped to a race bike. Bigger/better/faster/more but requires a certain amount of experience!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

There's a couple of second hand Rockets on the bay at the mo - attractive prices (as I type)


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

13 deleted characters


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

hotmetal said:


> Cheers Aaron, yes, the Rocket is a massive step up! I still think I need my head testing, I drive around in a beat-up old car that's done 10,000 miles a year for the last 16 years and I have the Mercedes of coffee machines in my little kitchen! My "coffee corner" is more like a "coffee half" now! But I absolutely love it. When I first joined the forum and saw these in the "show off your setup" section I dreamed of having a machine like this one day. Didn't think it would actually happen, but I stumbled upon a lightly used Version 1 machine. And the grinder to go with it. I don't usually luck out but recently this forum and its members have been good to me!
> 
> Making great espresso is now very easy with the consistent temperature and pressure from a 9lb E61 group and rotary pump. I'm still trying to master the steam power though - with a modded Classic you've all the time in the world to get your microfoam. With a Rocket (or Verona/Brewtus/Duetto etc etc) you have to re-learn, because it all happens very quickly and the milk gets up to temperature very quickly, while one false move sees you fighting the bubble monster. Also, a 2-hole tip means you have to keep the wand a lot more vertical than a single-hole. I've had a couple of weeks of practice and can now make passable milk some of the time, but you won't see me posting on Free Pour Friday any time soon I fear&#8230; though I can see that it will be possible to get much better results once I can learn the technique. It's like going from a moped to a race bike. Bigger/better/faster/more but requires a certain amount of experience!


I love the look of the Rockets. I think I will make do with my PID-ed Classic for a while yet, working on my technique and refining my skills. Then will go for a Rocket once I have all the basics right.

I imagine the big beasts really expose problems with the newbie Barista like me


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

On the contrary. I sold my classic yesterday but only because I was lucky to find a used dream machine at a price I could manage. The classic produces good shots if you're consistent. And it's very forgiving steam-wise. Moving up to a rotary pump e61 db machine makes it a lot easier to get consistently good results. If you can get good results from a classic then a rocket is no problem. Only getting used to the power of the steam wand shows up errors. The Classic will teach you a lot that will stand you in good stead for a big machine!


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

That is encouraging news







Just need to get the Rocket now


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## urpert (Mar 22, 2012)

I'd better not show that picture to Mrs.urpert when I start talking about upgrading my Classic...


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

hotmetal said:


> On the contrary. I sold my classic yesterday but only because I was lucky to find a used dream machine at a price I could manage. The classic produces good shots if you're consistent. And it's very forgiving steam-wise. Moving up to a rotary pump e61 db machine makes it a lot easier to get consistently good results. If you can get good results from a classic then a rocket is no problem. Only getting used to the power of the steam wand shows up errors. The Classic will teach you a lot that will stand you in good stead for a big machine!


Hey Hotmetal, sorry for the thread revival.

So Upgraditis has hit, and I am looking to upgrade to the R58 next month. Already planned my visit to Bella Barista









Now that you have had your R58 and Zenith for a few months I wondered if you had any helpful tips. Is there anything I should know before I sink all of that money that might help me avoid sinking a load of shots too.

Thanks in advance

Aaron


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

What grinder are you going to pair it with Aaron?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> What grinder are you going to pair it with Aaron?


Hey Dave.

I have a Eureka Zenith 65e


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Ah no worries Aaron. How far shall I go? I bought mine from DavecUK on here who is a machine reviewer/development engineer so he very patiently took me through almost every conceivable aspect of ownership, and I wrote it all down. Pages of it! Good info to have, concerning care and maintenance, water choice, usage etc.

If I can summarise my thoughts and some key points it would be this:

Great machine. Well specced and laid out inside and out. Looks lovely, sounds quiet (rotary pump). Makes great shots. Drip tray and water tank both reasonable size. Cup warmer works well (at least at the front, less so above the water tank obvs). Shower screen/group gasket easy to pop out.

Keep on top of cleaning, inside and out. Shiny steel means gently drying with a soft ecloth type thing, no hard pressure. Wash the water tank out every so often.

I used one sheet of "Cookamesh" cut to fit to protect the cup warmer and drip tray from cup scratches.

Use either plumbed or tanked. Dave has a full RO system but I use Tesco Ashbeck which has only 80mg/l tds so won't cause scale for a long time. It has enough minerals to activate the water sensor and to minimise both leaching from the boiler (from water too low in minerals). A tank of water usually lasts me 3-4 days @ 2-3 cups a day. If you forget then you might get the green flashing light meaning tank empty. No big deal but if it happens mid shot you'll have to start again with a new dose.

Backflush with water once or twice a week, with Puly or Cafiza maybe every couple of months depending on use. If you use chemicals to backflush you should really take the lever/cams apart and apply Molycote 111 food safe grease to avoid wear until the oils build up again. There are videos (American, espresso tech or something) showing how. If you don't, *any* e61 group is going to start squeaking or having a stiff lever.

You can choose whether to run the steam boiler or not. I drink cappuccinos every day so that's why I bought a dual boiler. Worth purging the steam boiler every so often to change the water otherwise. Remember to flush both boilers when you first get it so the first few coffees don't taste funny!

Using it is pretty straightforward and you shouldn't get many sink shots. I think the temp offset between PID and brew point is about 13-14 degrees so I run mine at "107" which is 93-94. The PID reading can fluctuate by a degree or two either way (at the boiler) but the effect at the group seems negligible.

Allow 45mins with the PF locked in to warm up for best results. Put it on a timer once you've familiarised yourself with it and got into a routine of checking water level, switch position etc.

Sounds like a lot of stuff but much of it applies equally to any E61 DB.

I love my R58. It takes up almost half my tiny kitchen with that and the 65e but it is so worth it. Best looking thing in there anyway so I don't mind it dominating! Makes great coffee consistently, you can do the milk while the shot is pouring, Easy to adjust temp with the PID (but bear in mind the thermal inertia that makes this machine so temp stable also means it takes a while to reach/change temperature). Warming up is obvious, but easy to forget how long it can take to drop if you reduce the temp on the pid.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

What a brilliant reply, thank you! Loads and loads to consider









The only one niggle I have about the machine is switching off the steam boiler via the detachable PID.

I don't drink many milky drinks, mostly just espresso. But, now and again I do make milky drinks. So for the most part I will have the steam boiler switched off to avoid wasting loads of power.

With this in mind I imagine I will be plugging the PID in and out to switch the steam boiler on and off which will be annoying.

The cable that is used looks like a standard parallel cable on one end and something else on the other. I am hoping to abuse our engineer at work to make a custom cable for this. So I can use a longer cable and embed the PID in my workbench and not have to keep taking it in and out.

Aaron


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

That's an awesome idea. I leave my pid in all the time so I can see the temp. But I can understand wanting to remove it. I have a feeling you need to turn the machine off before attaching or detaching, if only to reboot the logic board so it knows it's there or not. The external part is actually only a display and buttons. The actual pid controller is on board on the left hand side.

My external unit is connected via a ribbon cable and 'D' connector like computers in the 1980s and dot matrix printers because my machine was one of the very first. The newer ones have a much neater curly cable which I would prefer but don't really want to lug the machine anywhere to have it done.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I was told you must not unplug or plug the pid whilst powered up.

It is old tech and a shame they didn't use a more up to date connection.

On the water tank, how do you get yours out? Mine seems to be stuck in place by the little connection at the bottom, bit scared to tug it to hard!


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

If I get anywhere with a custom cable I will let you know.

I am thinking it will need a much shorter connector so that it doesn't stick out of the side of the machine too far. Then use a think cable that can be routed under the machine to where ever the PID needs to go.

@Hotmetal - is the cable that goes into the back of the actual control unit a ribbon cable too?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't know, I haven't taken the sides off, I just looked in where the tank goes in. Also bear in mind my machine is a v1. Not much changed (firmware and curly cable plus some minor change to the chin/drip tray IIRC) so it might not be exactly the same as a new one.

Froggy the water tank does literally just pull up and out. There's nothing stopping it apart from the rubber o ring maybe being a bit sticky. You can apply a bit of lube on it. Make sure you use the right lube though - can't remember if the o-ring is rubber or silicone but if you use the wrong lube it will degrade. I didn't lube my ring (oo-er!) it just loosened with regular use (fwup fwup!)


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Cheers, ill give it a tug tonight, need to clean it out really.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Sorry Hotmetal, I mean that actual detachable control unit with the screen and buttons.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Cheers, ill give it a tug tonight, need to clean it out really.


Ooh err! Keep that yourself!


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