# W d t tool/ whisk



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

WDT tool from whisk (sans Wenge handle)


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

@El carajillo Do you have the londinium tool to compare it with? Or can you send it to someone on forum with aforementioned tool?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

No I do not have the londinium tool, I just made it up from a cheap whisk, seems to work perfectly well:good:


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

El carajillo said:


> No I do not have the londinium tool, I just made it up from a cheap whisk, seems to work perfectly well:good:


Brilliant! Would you mind letting us know what are the parts and where you got them from?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I thought I take this opportunity to share my current wtd tool:










From Sainsbury's, 25 for £1. :







:


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Impressive. Not only the engineering and design but what a beautiful colour . . .



MediumRoastSteam said:


> I thought I take this opportunity to share my current wtd tool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Great, I was planning to do something similar with my whisk, will try this week


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The only "part" is a small whisk from any cook shop. £1 -- £1-50

METHOD

1.Put some spots of superglue into the bottom of the handle to lock the whisk tines in place.

2. Spot superglue on perforated washer to lock that in place. Allow to set thoroughly.

3.Clip the curved section off the bottom of the whisk to leave straight tines.

4.Use a pair of fine / need nose pliers to turn the loop's on the ends.

5. You can spread the tines if you find they are too close together.

6. Whisk approx 170 mm X 20 mm

PAT No El c 2017


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

What did you clip the end off with?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

fluffles said:


> What did you clip the end off with?


Pliers, if you have pliers with "slots" in outside of the shoulder , this is the best part to use.

Good pliers are often marked with P W this stands for piano wire and means the pliers are suitable for cutting very hard wire.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Flashy sod lol



MediumRoastSteam said:


> I thought I take this opportunity to share my current wtd tool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I thought I take this opportunity to share my current wtd tool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


does it work best with the umbrella up or down?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> .....Sans Wenge handle


Dishwasher safe then. And with two extra looped tines. I think Reiss' best improvement per quid spent statement is under real pressure now.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

You use with the umbrella down to start with, then put the umbrella up and upside down and give it a good shake on the basket to aerate and distribute it. (I can see this thread completely de-railing).

Note to anyone new to this forum/coffee world: just ignore this reply all together


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

El carajillo said:


> WDT tool from whisk (sans Wenge handle)
> 
> View attachment 28377
> View attachment 28378


pretty neat idea, why has no-one thought of this before!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I thought I take this opportunity to share my current wtd tool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The colour would go well with some of the grinders on the forum. Is there a "lifetime" guarantee on this model as I am concerned about it's longevity


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Phobic said:


> pretty neat idea, why has no-one thought of this before!


Because my straightened out paper clip glued into a wine cork is genius! It has an ergonomic handle, geometric shaft optimisation and is made of futuristic lightweight materials


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Fun night planned!!

Smallest I could find was 20 cm long tho - would prefer smaller.

This might be MK1, with MK2 coming later.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The one I used was about 170 mm long approx 20 mm dia. Sorry should have said before. You can probably bend the tines in after cutting.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

My 20 cm whisk is a little sturdier than ideal - the metal is a little too inflexible for the tines, but managed to construct something that looks pretty good.

Tried for the first time this morning with bottomless portafilter. The pour definitely started more evenly across the basket, and the resultant espresso had more body.

Was previously using a metal skewer, which was a reluctant improvement over no WDT, but again, I must admit that this is another small improvement.

Thanks @El carajillo for the clever adaptation.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You use with the umbrella down to start with, then put the umbrella up and upside down and give it a good shake on the basket to aerate and distribute it. (I can see this thread completely de-railing).
> 
> Note to anyone new to this forum/coffee world: just ignore this reply all together


Then put pin holes in the umbrella bit and use as a sieve. Kruve eat your heart out


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

here is my take:

I used a Tescoma mini whisk from their 'President' line, bigger pliers to hold the wires when bending their tips with the small narrow-nose pliers. I've also rounded the ends with a metal file to get rid of sharp edges. My aim was to create a combination of the LDT and a whisk, to retain the ability to stir the middle portion of the coffee in the basket.









a drop of epoxy to stabilise the wires









wires clipped, filed and bent









looks ok









The thing works and the first shot after modifications showed very even extraction. Thanks to @El carajillo for giving me a kick to make it


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Wow that is impressive stanic!

I got that exact whisk after seeing your workflow video some time ago - but couldn't get in to it that much. Seeing this I'm gonna get it back out of the drawer and have a go.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Brilliant. Gonna have to give this a go. Pound Land here we come!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Everyone will be busy this weekend then! (including myself)


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

In addition to waving it through the coffee grounds, spinning it between fingers completely aerates the grounds.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Everyone will be busy this weekend then! (including myself)


Apart from me and Mildred !


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Everyone will be busy this weekend then! (including myself)


The weekend? I thought things seemed pretty quiet on the forum this evening!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Check out what I found...


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Apart from me and Mildred !


And me ;P


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I have tried the unmodified whisker instead of the toothpick with the umbrella today and the result is much better. I am beginning to question myself whether the intended WDT tool proposed (whisker with modifications) has any more benefits over the whisker without modifications? Has anyone tried and compared?


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Stanic said:


> And me ;P


Sneaky !


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## Jezsherwood (Jun 30, 2017)

Having watched the video of Erna Tosberg on the tube is this what she is using through the porta filter funnel before tamping?

I haven't even started my journey but any good habits I can learn now must be worth it


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I always whisk the crap out of a dose in a small cup, seems to work fine, but would make a mess in a basket. The cup I'm using has cermic gloss finish walls but it's been dishwashed far too many times and now the sides offer more friction than standard gloss finish, which actually helps in the mixing (the dose "sticks" to the sides a bit and mixes better, super glassy walls typically make the dose swirl around when whisked which doesn't allow for proper mixing).

Anyone tested normal vs modified whisks for wdt efficiency?

T.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have tried the unmodified whisker instead of the toothpick with the umbrella today and the result is much better. I am beginning to question myself whether the intended WDT tool proposed (whisker with modifications) has any more benefits over the whisker without modifications? Has anyone tried and compared?


I bought a similar whisk off ebay when someone linked it a while back, used it twice. It made clumps when there weren't clumps before. Tried whisking the grinds in a container first then decanting to basket too. rubbish. It's been abandoned in the drawer since.

Will turn it into one of these at the weekend, nice one @El carajillo


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## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> Because my straightened out paper clip glued into a wine cork is genius! It has an ergonomic handle, geometric shaft optimisation and is made of futuristic lightweight materials


I'm glad I'm not the only one, I've been tempted to upgrade the paperclip to an old sewing machine needle but one of the right size hasn't snapped off yet...


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

This might be blowing the budget (£15), but I have been using for a while the WMF Profi Plus whisk with the silicone balls. Works really well once you snip off the central ball which captures the grounds, and the silicone means no risk of scratching the basket. These are not with the on trend loops though, so not sure if of interest


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

forzajuve said:


> This might be blowing the budget (£15), but I have been using for a while the WMF Profi Plus whisk with the silicone balls. Works really well once you snip off the central ball which captures the grounds, and the silicone means no risk of scratching the basket. These are not with the on trend loops though, so not sure if of interest


That's interesting. I've been wondering whether the loops are there simply so the basket doesn't get scratched by rough metal at the edge.

I am actually getting really good results with just a mini whisk. I need to find another mini whisk and do the mods in order to compare. Don't want to destroy my only working example...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I think I'll stick to the already made ones... #fail


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I think I'll stick to the already made ones... #fail


Move the disc back up the tines and fix with adhesive, twist the loops to sit raidially then bend to suitable diameter. It does look as if the tines are too thick.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

El carajillo said:


> Move the disc back up the tines and fix with adhesive, twist the loops to sit raidially then bend to suitable diameter. It does look as if the tines are too thick.


To be honest, it is too big and the tines are too thick. It incredibly difficult to bend or cut it.

I just grabbed this one from Wilko as it was 50p. Need to find a smaller one from somewhere else.


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## nomilknosugar (May 9, 2017)

This looks like a more painful version of those head massage thingies you can buy at festivals.

Which has me wondering, don't I have one of those somewhere? It might just work&#8230;


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

How many forum members made the whisk WT tool:confused:







How dd you find it worked ?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> How many forum members made the whisk WT tool:confused:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I made one, but I want to change it a bit. Remove the centraliser and reduce the number of tines to three. But I'm using it, and it's working well.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I'm happy with mine, it works


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

As for me, I need to find a smaller whisk...


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm continuing my search for a smaller whisk but mk1 works excellently - massive improvement over a cocktail stick etc.

When I find a new donor whisk I will try removing tines from mk1 before butchering mk2. I do find the bent tines a bit close together, so bunch up the coffee grinds between them, fewer tines should reduce that


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I bought these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chef-Aid-Stainless-Steel-Set-2-Kitchen-Mini-Whisks-for-Rapid-Eggs-Sauces-Whisk/292075751659?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Which are very small - cant imagine you would want anything smaller.

Not sure it makes much of a difference to just giving it a good stir with the back end of a brush I use for grinder cleaning, but it looks neat... and lets be honest thats what we all want.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Dylan said:


> I bought these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Chef-Aid-Stainless-Steel-Set-2-Kitchen-Mini-Whisks-for-Rapid-Eggs-Sauces-Whisk/292075751659?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
> 
> Which are very small - cant imagine you would want anything smaller.
> 
> Not sure it makes much of a difference to just giving it a good stir with the back end of a brush I use for grinder cleaning, but it looks neat... and lets be honest thats what we all want.


Thanks for this! Just bought it. Watch this space!


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## martyrdon (Dec 13, 2016)

I made it too. Can't actually believe the difference it made!


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Why risk the debilitating effect of RSI when you can automate?









can't see anything that could go wrong with this idea


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

NickdeBug said:


> Why risk the debilitating effect of RSI when you can automate?
> 
> View attachment 28628
> 
> ...


What Kg basket are you using:confused:


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

This is mine, just need to find a PF to match...

T.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Now you are just being silly, @NickdeBug

What about this, it wouldn't be quite such a snug fit . . .


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

My wdt tool.... Sorry.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

wow - Morph seems to have got in to some weird stuff


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I sense a competitive spirit going on here


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Rakesh said:


> My wdt tool.... Sorry.


With a bend you can hit a certain spot


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

NickdeBug said:


> Why risk the debilitating effect of RSI when you can automate?
> 
> View attachment 28628
> 
> ...


Would be handy with this little machine


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## nomilknosugar (May 9, 2017)

Another high tech solution. Works great!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

nomilknosugar said:


> Another high tech solution. Works great!


That's cheating, I didn't know you even knew Yuri Gellar.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Look what the postie brought to me today...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The smaller one looks like the one I used.







Come on get to work on it


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Look what the postie brought to me today...


Same as the pair I ordered. I used the smaller one


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Well, I tried, but the chromium coating is very delicate and, when I tired to bend it, it snapped.

So, so this is mk1.










No loops. :-(


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Although mine did snap at first, if you very carefully bend it bit by bit and not all in one place it does bend into hoops.

But I gave up on mine and went back to the end of a fine paintbrush, was just easier and does the same job.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mk2 and final










Let's see how it compares to the normal whisk...


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Mk2 and final
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you own a gas hob? Could've potentially heated the metal to bend a nice tight loop


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

joey24dirt said:


> Do you own a gas hob? Could've potentially heated the metal to bend a nice tight loop


Mk3 then...


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Mk3 then...


While I've got you. Can I just ask..... what does wdt stand for?


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## khampal (Feb 6, 2017)

Weiss distribution technique


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

^^^^^ Which is basically stirring the grinds into the basket to compensate for poor grinder distribution.

Another term is RDT (Ross Droplet Technique) which is to add droplets of water to the coffee beans on single-dosing grinders before they are ground to eliminate static. Better than droplets is to use a spray to spray the beans beforehand. Works wonders.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I have to say I like my little tool. The extraction this morning was nice & even, and I'd say it's slightly better than the stock whisk itself.

On thing I noticed straight away is that, maybe due to the design, there is less coffee grinds sticking to it if compared to the stock whisk.

@El carajillo - Thanks for the inspiration!


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

The whisk arrive yesterday and I immediately got to work.


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Mk2 and final
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I find using the larger whisk is easier to work with and the tines are less prone to snapping. Also helps to just snip the top of each whisk loop rather than snip off the whole curved section as it's then easier to bend into loops.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I found gripping near the end of the tine and using a rotating movement worked best, better than a series of cranks:good:


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## nomilknosugar (May 9, 2017)

MildredM said:


> That's cheating, I didn't know you even knew Yuri Gellar.


That old fraud! I used my very own, elegant technique for this - BF&I![1]

I must say, the tool works an absolute treat, though, and without faffing around and breaking whisks. 

[brute Force & Ignorance]


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Guys... I just found this thread. I'm away from home so can't test until next week, but I have something that might work well.

It's something I use at work. Looks like a metallic ballpoint pen, but when you push down /plunge the end, 5 metallic prongs come spreading out, looking almost like those whisks.

BTW it's a tool to hold loose diamonds and gemstones for display /inspection.

They aren't expensive. When I get home, and when I don't forget to bring one home, if I try it and find it helpful, I'll let you know.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

u2jewel said:


> Guys... I just found this thread. I'm away from home so can't test until next week, but I have something that might work well.
> 
> It's something I use at work. Looks like a metallic ballpoint pen, but when you push down /plunge the end, 5 metallic prongs come spreading out, looking almost like those whisks.
> 
> ...


Ah yeah I've used something similar at work for grabbing bolts and nuts I've dropped into small spaces. Good thinking


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

If you push at the end in/out really quickly (like that annoying guy with a ballpoint pen going click-click-click.. Forever) then it's almost like skinny fingers coming in/out and groping, stroking and massaging the mound of Coffee in the portafilter, whipping it up to a more airy, fluffier state.

(all in my imagination )


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

u2jewel said:


> If you push at the end in/out really quickly (like that annoying guy with a ballpoint pen going click-click-click.. Forever) then it's almost like skinny fingers coming in/out and groping, stroking and massaging the mound of Coffee in the portafilter, whipping it up to a more airy, fluffier state.
> 
> (all in my imagination )


Er......OK then


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

u2jewel said:


> If you push at the end in/out really quickly (like that annoying guy with a ballpoint pen going click-click-click.. Forever) then it's almost like skinny fingers coming in/out and groping, stroking and massaging the mound of Coffee in the portafilter, whipping it up to a more airy, fluffier state.
> 
> (all in my imagination )


Rich imagination indeed


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

A new version of that old wdt tool thingy, no twisting twirling rotating needed just grind in your dose and wait until he/she reappears, magic  and no lumpy grinds, just don't let onto Londinium......


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I've reverted to a mini whisk... I found it nicer to use, and I am getting the same results with the naked PF. Saying that, my mk2 tool was not the smoothest, so I've resigned to the fact I should just stick to things which are already made....


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I've reverted to a mini whisk... I found it nicer to use, and I am getting the same results with the naked PF. Saying that, my mk2 tool was not the smoothest, so I've resigned to the fact I should just stick to things which are already made....


I might try the mini one we have in the kitchen drawer. I had a go with those little corn on the cob handle things earlier. You know the ones that you stab in either end to hold the corn. Totally pointless exercise haha


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## slamm (Nov 26, 2016)

Don't think I'll be trying the  method, although I can see it could add more 'body', especially if it doesn't reappear.. I'm sticking with the mark 1 two bent paperclips jammed in a stick thing, one more prong than the Londinium so 33% more effective


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Think this would work?!


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

joey24dirt said:


> Think this would work?!


Got one of those with my Makita mixing drill


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

mines_abeer said:


> A new version of that old wdt tool thingy, no twisting twirling rotating needed just grind in your dose and wait until he/she reappears, magic  and no lumpy grinds, just don't let onto Londinium......


Well, you can get a sort of bulletproof coffee with that fellow, protein enriched morning drink


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## gwing (Jul 17, 2017)

nomilknosugar said:


> Another high tech solution. Works great!


I'm liking this very much, so far preferring it to the modified whisks.

The design needs some consideration though. Look for a fork that has long tines with good gaps between them, what you don't want are the cheap stainless canteen ones that are mostly a flat metal plate with notches stamped out to form the tines.

I think the more common squared edge profile on the example shown here are probably better than the really well rounded ones - but it may well be that rounding the leading edge of the tines is going to cause less compaction of the coffee and perform better. That does make it a unidirectional fork though, so fitting a round handle to rotate it easily in the fingers when switching from clockwise to anticlockwise stirring may be a final touch.

What I particularly like about the fork WDT is that after fluffing up the grounds you can get a pretty good level distribution by raising the fork so the tines are only a few mm into the grounds, making sure the fork is properly vertical and rotating it carefully.

And making these I don't snap off whisk tines due to the stainless steel work hardening while bending. That's probably my own fault though as I tried to 'improve' the which WDT design by not just creating loops at the end but also putting small bends along the length for a corrugated effect and better mixing. That was a step too far for my skills, and the stainless.

This fork design does have the elegance of simplicity - which with a bit of effort I'm sure we can complicate out of all recognition


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

Just to follow up on that thing I was talking about..


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I like that, u2jewel! And I like it even more that the spider towards the top of the previous page isn't going to make me jump every time I look at this thread


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I like that, u2jewel! And I like it even more that the spider towards the top of the previous page isn't going to make me jump every time I look at this thread


Hehe..

Just used it for the first time. It worked better than I anticipated!

BTW, I put the cigarette there for size reference.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

I tried the mini whisk, but no discernible improvement over my bent paper-clip in a cork, other than grounds settling lower and making them difficult to level off. The best thing I did was get that alu portafilter funnel from the classifieds - means you can be a bit more vigorous than with the yoghurt pot version.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The answer to all this, is to buy a Mythos, then you will not need any such coffee bollocks to assist your shot prep!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> The answer to all this, is to buy a Mythos, then you will not need any such coffee bollocks to assist your shot prep!


In order to buy a Mythos, i need a bigger house. Or I can get rid of the wash machine and keep it in its place I suppose. Time to negotiate with the wife. :







:


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

It would be interesting to see how many people WDTing are single dosing, I find it neccessary on any grinder which doesn't produce enough back pressure through a hopper or doesn't offer mixing in something like a doser. Most doser fitted grinders will not need WDT if you run them with a full hopper, hardly a solution for home though unless you like chuking loads of stale coffee in between shots. Fairly sure Mythos isn't perfect if you single dose it either.

T.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dsc said:


> It would be interesting to see how many people WDTing are single dosing, I find it neccessary on any grinder which doesn't produce enough back pressure through a hopper or doesn't offer mixing in something like a doser. Most doser fitted grinders will not need WDT if you run them with a full hopper, hardly a solution for home though unless you like chuking loads of stale coffee in between shots. Fairly sure Mythos isn't perfect if you single dose it either.
> 
> T.


I tend to agree, with my very short experience. With the T64, I didn't need to do any of that nonsense. However, with a the Kinu, such nonsense is compulsory for a good-looking bottomless PF shot.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

It's actually really easy to explain, with single dosing and no constant back pressure from the hopper, the burrs produce a gradually coarser grind (as the burr chamber empties). As it comes out you get the finer particles first, then the coarser and coarser stuff follows. If you pack that straight into a basket, tamp and pull, its a disaster. If you mix, pack, tamp and pull it creates a more even fines distribution and produces a bettee shot.

T.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Mythos is not designed to single dose and I do not. I use it as it was designed for and subsequently have absolutely no problems


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

In that case you can't really recommend it for people who most likely WDT due to single dosing. I could say buy a doser and hopper fitted grinder and end the faff but it's not a relevant solution in this case as it introduces other issues.

T.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I tend to agree, with my very short experience. With the T64, I didn't need to do any of that nonsense. However, with a the Kinu, such nonsense is compulsory for a good-looking bottomless PF shot.


This big bag of coffee I got in HK was a little too fruity for espresso drinking (lovely in v60) so I decided to mix the batch with some really dark roasts to balance things out. The T64 was perfect until then..

Now I get clumps in my grinds, probably proportionate to the amount of dark beans I have in my blend.

Maybe really dark only beans need fluffing, regardless of what grinder you have.. Be it hand grinder, flat or conical...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

People worry about too many things. For many years, people happily thought that if they put in 18 gms and got out 16 gms then they had 2 gms of retention. The subsequent coffee did them no harm. Now though, armed with a tad more information, the world has suddenly caved in in the pursuit of nirvana. You can take a Ceado E92 which retains kilos but produces a really good quality of grind, and modify it for single dosing. The result is you quadruple your shot prep time and other than being able to single dose, do not achieve anything extra. Or, you buy a recognised single doing grinder and follow out whatever script of things you have to do to pull a shot. I drink only 2 or 3 a day now and do not suffer from beans going stale in the hopper. I put about half a 250 gm bag in then the rest when it is running low. it amazes me the problems that people create!


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> The answer to all this, is to buy a Mythos, then you will not need any such coffee bollocks to assist your shot prep!


dfk

How does your mythos handle really dark oily beans? I was just watching YouTube after seeing your post, and it has this heater thing! What's the darkest you've ground, and how does it go?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

u2jewel said:


> dfk
> 
> How does your mythos handle really dark oily beans? I was just watching YouTube after seeing your post, and it has this heater thing! What's the darkest you've ground, and how does it go?


Thats all I drink......dark roasted and often oily......my Mythos is the normal one, not the Clima Pro (though I have had one) which does not have the heater. That is really only applicable in a commercial environment


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> People worry about too many things. For many years, people happily thought that if they put in 18 gms and got out 16 gms then they had 2 gms of retention. The subsequent coffee did them no harm. Now though, armed with a tad more information, the world has suddenly caved in in the pursuit of nirvana. You can take a Ceado E92 which retains kilos but produces a really good quality of grind, and modify it for single dosing. The result is you quadruple your shot prep time and other than being able to single dose, do not achieve anything extra. Or, you buy a recognised single doing grinder and follow out whatever script of things you have to do to pull a shot. I drink only 2 or 3 a day now and do not suffer from beans going stale in the hopper. I put about half a 250 gm bag in then the rest when it is running low. it amazes me the problems that people create!


If you want to switch beans often your method won't work. From your perspective this might be faff, for most I think 3-4sec of whisk action isn't too painful.

T.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dsc said:


> If you want to switch beans often your method won't work. From your perspective this might be faff, for most I think 3-4sec of whisk action isn't too painful.
> 
> T.


That's one of the reasons I bought the Kinu: I can switch beans as I please (which currently translated to the ability to have a decaf in the evening), able to reproduce to the exact setting every time. Having a second grinder for me, unfortunately, is not an option due to space.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> The answer to all this, is to buy a Mythos, then you will not need any such coffee bollocks to assist your shot prep!


Now I do wonder about the mythos.

Will the grinder that you continuously return to become defunct when the Niche lands?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I tend to agree, with my very short experience. With the T64, I didn't need to do any of that nonsense. However, with a the Kinu, such nonsense is compulsory for a good-looking bottomless PF shot.


Same with the HG-1. Love the whole process and now get reliable naked pulls back to back


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Thought I would post my effort. Seems to work ok for what it is


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> The answer to all this, is to buy a Mythos, then you will not need any such coffee bollocks to assist your shot prep!


It's true a Mythos is cheaper and smaller than a whisk too....Do you just need to buy the one?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> It's true a Mythos is cheaper and smaller than a whisk too....Do you just need to buy the one?


Two is ideal, especially if you drink decaf and normal coffee


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## gwing (Jul 17, 2017)

dsc said:


> If you want to switch beans often your method won't work. From your perspective this might be faff, for most I think 3-4sec of whisk action isn't too painful.
> 
> T.


I guess it depends what you mean by 'often' and what you mean by 'won't work'. I seem to use the same method as outlined by dfk41 above and switch beans every four days or so (i.e. when I roast my next batch) and it 'does work' although I'm personally quite happy to drink a cup during the transition that is some random blend between the two roasts, why not I say









The few seconds of whisk action is no trouble at all, however I'm far from convinced the distribution after whisking is any better than that coming straight from the grinder. It's so close I can't make a call on it with perhaps a slight feeling that the grinder does it better itself. This is using a Fiorenzeta F64e grinder so not totally excessive.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> ...take a Ceado E92 which retains kilos.


Mine doesn't unless I use mahogany roast beans or grind superfine because I'm extracting at low pressure. Even then it's not a fraction of Robur retention levels.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Obnic said:


> Mine doesn't unless I use mahogany roast beans or grind superfine because I'm extracting at low pressure. Even then it's not a fraction of Robur retention levels.


Must be a unique one then! All conicals apart from the Niche retain loads, in the burrs, in the grind chamber and lots of other places, unlesss you are single dosing and using the puffs system, then I grant you but the shot prep is stupid, takes so long and for me, I simply cannot be arsed with anything that makes life more complicated!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Must be a unique one then! All conicals apart from the Niche retain loads, in the burrs, in the grind chamber and lots of other places, unlesss you are single dosing and using the puffs system, then I grant you but the shot prep is stupid, takes so long and for me, I simply cannot be arsed with anything that makes life more complicated!


Yes, modded for single dosing, clean sweep and puffing hood.

I don't generally need to WDT unless using a dark bean. Am interested in @dsc observations about fines first. I haven't noticed systematic distribution issues, and I only ever use a naked portafilter. I may try again to see if extraction improves.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

science versus making coffee........pop over at any point matey, if you are passing and without any jiggery mockery, I will produce a fine cuppa but do not bring your refractometer or sieves as you may be disappointed when I throw them out of the window!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> science versus making coffee........pop over at any point matey, if you are passing and without any jiggery mockery, I will produce a fine cuppa but do not bring your refractometer or sieves as you may be disappointed when I throw them out of the window!


He will need to bring some decent beans as well


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> He will need to bring some decent beans as well


Whats wrong with Illy? Actually, I am drinking some7/8 week old Rave at the moment and it is pretty good......for decaf


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Whats wrong with Illy? Actually, I am drinking some7/8 week old Rave at the moment and it is pretty good......for decaf


Like I said !!!!!!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> science versus making coffee........pop over at any point matey, if you are passing and without any jiggery mockery, I will produce a fine cuppa but do not bring your refractometer or sieves as you may be disappointed when I throw them out of the window!


 typical geordie hospitality, gives generously with one hand...


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

@gwing "Often" as in change bean / blend when you feel like it. I typically have two bags open, different roast levels in both and I switch between them depending on what I prefer at a particular time. It also works well if you serve a mixture of different espresso based beverages, say two cappuccinos and two espressos and you want more choc flavours in the cappas and more fruity espresso, it's simply easy to switch. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it offers the possibility.

I don't think I've ever stated WDT is better than a grinder which distributes well with 200-250g of beans sitting in the hopper. I did state however that WDT is probably a neccessity if you single dose, unless you have some sort of premixing embeded in the grinder (which I've tried developing, but it's much easier and cheaper to simply use a whisk for 3-4 seconds).

@Obnic happy to expand on the fines theory if there's anything specific you'd like to know









As for science vs coffee making, as with anything food related, it's all subjective, majority of people drink Costa and instant coffee and it works for them, so why bother with grinders in the first place?

T.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

dsc said:


> @[MENTION=9968]Obnic happy to expand on the fines theory if there's anything specific you'd like to know
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds completely plausible to me. Even at super low revs of the E92 I can see mild pop-corning later in the grind process.


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

dsc said:


> @gwing it's all subjective
> 
> T.


Indeed it is.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Bringing this one back from the dead to post a quick pic of my £6 from Amazon cocktail whisk, modded (with wire cutters / pliers) into a WDT tool. Works well!
























Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

It started life as this fella, if anyone's interested in doing the same (simple) surgery: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01CY7XQRA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

I too use a snipped mini whisk, though not as neat as@mrshades

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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