# Do I tamp too hard?



## pottolom (Jan 17, 2019)

I have a DTP and never use the razor tool. I just weigh out 16g of beans, grind, put into the unpressurised double basket, tamp and pull the shot at around 30 seconds for 32g of espresso.

I decided to 'measure' the volume of my ground coffee in the basket using the razor tool this morning after tamping. The top of the grounds was way below the razor. I tried again with 18g and it was way below.

Does this suggest I'm tamping too hard, since the razor tool is supposed to help you get 16g?

My scales are pretty accurate by the way.

Oh, and if it's any help, I do think I am grinding fairly coarse really to get the right extraction time - 1.10 on the Feldgrind. Again, perhaps suggesting I'm tamping a little too hard?


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## M_H_S (Jun 6, 2018)

pottolom said:


> I have a DTP and never use the razor tool. I just weigh out 16g of beans, grind, put into the unpressurised double basket, tamp and pull the shot at around 30 seconds for 32g of espresso.
> 
> I decided to 'measure' the volume of my ground coffee in the basket using the razor tool this morning after tamping. The top of the grounds was way below the razor. I tried again with 18g and it was way below.
> 
> ...


Tamping too hard is not going to do that. Different beans at the same weight will take up different amounts of space in the basket.

You can do it by weight or by the height in the basket. It's all about taste so see what you prefer.

The clearance from the razor tool is just what they suggest. It can be a bit over or under I feel but not too much.

Also the tool doesn't help with distribution. It just levels the top at a certain depth. For a significant jump in quality through puck prep, try using a funnel and stirring with a tooth pick, tapping the portafilter a couple of times on the surface to settle, then tamping.

Also try to source a bottomless portfilter to see how much and how evenly you are extracting the puck.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To answer the title .

No

Ditch the razor.

10lbs either way will make no or little difference to your extraction


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

You don't give any indication of the force you are using to tamp...thus it's difficult to know if you are tamping too hard. Have you tried measuring the tamping pressure you routinely use?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To follow up, how does the coffee taste = good , dont stress.

Are your scales accurate to 0.1g for dose.

Weight dose after grinding , not before. the grinder is retaining some.

Ditch the razor , it's a bit of a gimmick in my opinion.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Is your Feldgrind zeroed? What coffee are you using?

I'm slightly surprised you are at 1.10 since I am grinding 1.6 for Aeropress.

When I had DTP, I believe I was using 1 full revolution to 1 full revolution + 4 on the dial (I.e. 1.0-1.4).


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Sage seem to suggest 15-18g in the basket, so you can up the dose to 18g if you so wish.

Different coffees will fill the basket very differently. 16g of one might be too much for the basket and then 18g of another not enough to fill it. The razor tool is unnecessary but it can tell you if you have too much in the basket at least - if it is removing coffee after a tamp then just dose less in the first place. If it isn't touching the coffee even at 18g then don't worry too much, but if you want to experiment with slightly more in the basket then it wont hurt.

As above, tamping pressure will have little to nothing to do with it so drop that as a worry.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The razor tool is mostly a good idea for complete beginners. Silly to say throw it away as some on other machines might suggest using a coin test to check fill height. Over and under filling is fine if some one knows what they are doing. Unless they start off more or less correct they have no way of knowing what the effects are. The come bean variations.

Also useful when tuning a bean and a grinder timer. Just set a bit too much and razor off the excess. That way the same time can be used as the grinder is adjusted. Or play with spoons etc if you like.

Mr Oracle may have tried using it on that, As with the DB it's completely useless.

If the OP is using a lower fill and all ok fine, carry on. If soggy or other problems fine too but I find that introduces consistency problems.

John

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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Hi, as others have said, the Razor is only really useful if you have no idea. I use 17-18g regularly in my BE and its never had issues. Tamp won't really do anything with relation to the Razor. As long as you are monitoring input/output and it tastes good - what is the issue?

Also, I have the Feld:2 and my setting fluctuates between 1:10-2:0 with fresh beans. I have only purchased it recently too. Any finer and it chokes the machine.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

People who have read about light tamping may have problems if they go too light and in any case tamping pressure does have an effect on shot outputs so it needs to be kept fairly constant if people want to be precise. People tend to do that anyway. They weigh grinds in and weigh shots out. Time may vary. The razor tool can get round weighing in and a BE can get round weighing out. So if taste is what is wanted the numbers are irrelevant. The results most relate to how precisely the BE holds the shot. Taste wise rather well in my case. Volume - I had no interest what so ever in knowing what that was other than visually as I know I could spot 5ml variation easily. Latter on I did measure it and found that my 1 to 2 occurred at 30sec but my shot times were longer The ratio I was actually using was getting on for 1 to 3.5+. I use a lower ratio on the same bean on the DB but I'm not brewing at 15bar on that.

The other use for the razor tool is for when a grinder with a timer is being used. The timer can be set so that it always gives a little more than the razor tool leaves. It can also be used while the time is being set precisely. Also when tuning on the same as the output will vary as the grinder settings are changed. Same thing can happen when weighing in on some grinders - output changes each time the setting is changed.

The problem with it on the DB seems to be the machine not the idea. The DTP is seems doesn't have a 3 way but even then it should still work in much the same way as it does on the BE.

The weight of the grinds is just another variable really so more or less than the razor tool leaves is also ok but I tend to see that more relating to strength of taste than the actual nature of the taste unless it helps with stepped grinder adjustment.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Anyone care to translate


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Anyone care to translate


"I don't know"?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> "I don't know"?


LOL Well at least that is a better comment than the other one but maybe you should elaborate?









However bury info that some might find useful with none relevant posts - by all means carry on.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> LOL Well at least that is a better comment than the other one but maybe you should elaborate?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The OP's question was answered a week ago.

Just because 16-18g sits below Razor level, this is not an indication he is tamping too hard.

Tamp consistently, dose consistently, tamp flat (most important) keep the force the same (could be a lb could be 20lb) as best you can.

Don't steer shot time with tamp force, steer the flavour with grind adjustments.


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