# When you struggle with consistency



## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I bought a Lido 3 and Aeropress around six years ago, and these days use V60 at work and home. Wilfa Uniform or Comandante C40 at home, the Lido at work. Since I get a good deal, it’s almost exclusively coffee from Tim Wendelboe. The coffee is anywhere from one to seven weeks old when brewed. Sometimes a fresh bag is better, sometimes an older one.

At some point I bought both a Kruve sifter and VST refractometer. Partly out of curiosity, but a lot of it came from wanting better results.

I make 1-2 brews a day, but still struggle with getting consistently tasty cups. The perfect cup is balanced and clear, bringing out the notes of the coffee. More often than not, I don’t get that. I can’t brag about a refined palate or nose, so I’m usually stumped as to what went wrong. At home it’s with Oslo water, and bottled at work. The cups range from very good, 7-8/10 to pretty bad 2-3/10.

I sometimes change grind a little to look for better results, which occasionally works, but not for long. Too often I sit with a cup and think that I would probably have a better tasting cup with a quality grocery store brand pre-ground and Moccamaster.

I settled on a recipe that I use every time, which is Mark’s 6-pour. 15/250g, off boil.

The V60 is perhaps not helping me, and I have thought about something more forgiving like an Aeropress, but I really love the clarity and acidity of a good V60 brew.

Any tips? I don’t understand why it’s this hard, or where to start. What do you suspect is the main issue?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Aeropress is not more forgiving & to get drip brew like clarity takes the best part of half an hour, I'm not sure what a forgiving brewer would be in comparison to V60? Maybe a Melitta 102, but only by the tiniest margin.

You say you have a VST, is the inconsistency in taste also showing up in the inconsistency in EY? (If EY is wildly inconsistent this could point to a more mechanically based issue.)

Is the inconsistency seen when switching from one coffee to another, or also within brews using the same coffee?

When the coffee is disappointing, is it generally for a similar reason/fault?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I don't have as good data as you on the brews, which is something I should put more effort into. The sample size I got now is too small to make conclusions I'd say, but I have experienced making the same brew a few days in a row with EY within the range you'd expect (in my log it's usually between 20.5-22%, most a little over 21%), but still had some good and some bad cups.

My typical selection of coffee these days is a mix of more acidic Kenyans like Karogoto, a Geisha and maybe a more floral like Fahem. I got one or two bags open at once and some days brew the same bag twice, some days from two different bags/types.

Kenya Karogoto: Cultivars: SL28, SL34, Ruiru 11 & Batian. Rose hips, hibiscus & blackcurrants.
Honduras Geisha: Sweet mandarin, jasmine & honey.
Ethiopia Fahem: Cultivar 74110. Floral, sweet citrus & stone fruit.

The typical bad cup feels bitter, but I find it difficult to distinguish bitter and sour when it's closer to balanced. There's a quality that dominates and makes the notes disappear, and gives a bad aftertaste. I'm looking for a clean cup that brings out the notes.

I had an idea one day to make three cups with different grind settings, two clicks between each, and taste them like a cupping, when at room temp. Maybe that would bring out differences better.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> The typical bad cup feels bitter, but I find it difficult to distinguish bitter and sour when it's closer to balanced. There's a quality that dominates and makes the notes disappear, and gives a bad aftertaste. I'm looking for a clean cup that brings out the notes.


Maybe you're generally a little too fine/over agitating? A little too much silt in the brew can be pithy like citrus/grapefruit peel, so kind of bitter/sour?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

Perhaps. I stir the bloom one way, then turn the spoon 180° and stir some more. After that I pour slowly in circles 37g in 10 seconds, even cut off the top of the filter to get even closer with the spout (no hosing!). Last pour straight down the middle, then doesn’t touch it until I remove the V60.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> Perhaps. I stir the bloom one way, then turn the spoon 180° and stir some more. After that I pour slowly in circles 37g in 10 seconds, even cut off the top of the filter to get even closer with the spout (no hosing!). Last pour straight down the middle, then doesn’t touch it until I remove the V60.


My "stir" of the bloom is more just a single 'dig & wiggle', no turning of the spoon, just in once, back and forth gently & out again.

If there is standing water at 2nd to last pour, the last 2 can be straight down the middle (or maybe even the last 3, if 2 straight down the middle isn't cleaning things up?).


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

There’s standing water the entire brew from the first pour after the bloom, so maybe I’ll try that.

I’ve measured two a day the last five days and I suspect that my method needs a bit more care and precision to achieve accurate results. What kind of variance do you find in EY with the same coffee, same grind and method? With the Kenyan I’ve gone from 21.22 to 22.09.

Today I first got TDS of 1.43 with the Geisha, then 1.53 ten seconds later. I know temperature matters, but didn’t see that coming. I took a new sample and again got 1.43, but it stayed there. I gave it a 6/9. Usually with this coffee I’ve gotten 1.48-1.52.

But taste is what matters, and I’ve been quite happy with the brews. Mostly 7/9, a few 6/8 and one 8/9. I used 24 clicks the first two days, but went up to 25. There has not been the bitter and pithy notes which has been the biggest issue. Mostly balanced, pronounced acidity. Dry bed and BEV has been consistent.

This talk about agitation reminds me of a test I did a few years back where I poured through an Aeropress bottom with one or two metal filters in there to disturb the bed even less. IIRC it came out really clean, but perhaps also lacking a little something. As the water drained it was almost clear on top of the bed. I also think it extended the time till dry bed, which would make sense.

It’s interesting how agitation can affect the brews. Not something I have paid a whole lot of attention to before, but I’ve read your comments on it here and there. It’s why I already did the last down the middle.

Is the effect only the extra particles going into the cup because of agitation/disturbing the bed or does it affect extraction?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

For the same coffee & brew regime, I'd expect results to land within a 1%EY span, so what you're seeing seems fine/normal/expected. It's important to let samples cool well before taking a reading, I spoon a bit less than a teaspoon out into a cold vessel, leave it 30-60s, then drop ~0.3g into the refractometer & leave 30s & take 3-5 readings, always within +/-0.01.

Consistency in dry bed is a red herring, if you pour consistently and get consistent bev.(g) that is what matters. Brew/flow times are not precise enough to be a guide.

Agitation needs to be enough to separate & wet all the coffee grounds, to allow a nominal extraction - after that any extra agitation is going to lead to more particulate matter (not counted towards extraction, but tastes bad) in your cup. Good EY ranges relating to preference assume no other malfunctions screwing up the flavour. A silty 20% brew can be awful, whilst a cleaner 20% brew (from the same coffee) could be delicious.

I've been using a steel can strainer in the last couple of years (and more recently Hario Drip Assist 02) to lessen agitation in the latter stages of the brew for cleaner cups. As long as the grind is appropriate to achieve a decent level of extraction, the clear liquid above the bed isn't a sign of anything (nor is murky liquid from a hand poured brew, if the flavour is good).

For instance, at the same grind I use for bloom & 6 pours with a kettle, I'm currently doing 5 equal pours with drip assist 02, the first 2 via the centre of the drip assist, remaining 3 via the outer ring, all pours 30s intervals, each one taking 13-15s.

To be fair, I do think the flat bed Kalita 185 works better with the lower agitation strainer/Drip Assist pours.

The other option with V60, is to go coarser & more but smaller pours, e.g. 20g every 20s, or 30g/30s, each pour being 10s long would be my max. So coarse that you have to pour in spirals until the last couple (~8-9% at 400 Kruve)...but it's more time consuming.

If all 3 approaches are dialled in, they taste as good, only differences are time/faff factor.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

Thanks! Always appreciate your input.

The drip assist looks interesting. I had no idea such a thing existed. Do you use the 02 for an 02 V60 or does it fit an 01 too?

I wouldn’t say it’s unreasonable that some of my troubles stem from agitation and silt, when they can change character so much from day to day.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> Thanks! Always appreciate your input.
> 
> The drip assist looks interesting. I had no idea such a thing existed. Do you use the 02 for an 02 V60 or does it fit an 01 too?
> 
> I wouldn’t say it’s unreasonable that some of my troubles stem from agitation and silt, when they can change character so much from day to day.


I only saw the drip assist about 3 months ago, totally by accident. I can only find the 02 drip assist in the UK and use that with the 02 dripper (also fits nicely on the Kalita 185).


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