# ECM Water Filter



## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Is anyone using the cartridge type ECM water filter in their water tank?

I was given a pack (of 2) with my machine and wasn't sure how to install the cartridge. I ended up connecting it with a short silicon hose between the cartridge outlet and the tank outlet with the filter standing vertically in the corner of the tank - seems to work fine.

Anyway, I just contacted ECM to tell them about their tamper stand not working with angled PF handles and also mentioned the lack of instructions supplied with the filters. They got back to me advising not to use the cartridge filter on a rotary pump machine as it can damage the pump (my interpretation is that it would lower the suction pressure of the pump but I can't see this being significant). ECM tell me I should use the filter pouch instead. I can't find any mention of the fact these are not to be used with rotary pump machines anywhere on the packaging?

Regarding the tamper stand, I am told there is a tamper stand specifically for angled handles - I just got one of the older design which was made for straight handles.

Thanks


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Don't think those cartridges are a good alternative to using bottled water for tank fed.

I have a bwt filter for plumbed in ecm


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Yes, agreed - more of a stop gap really. At the moment I'm refilling the tank every other day because I draw water off for preheating cups and occasionally for tea (if my wife isn't having coffee). Plumbing in would be convenient.

What does the BWT filter cost and how often does it need changing? Also, what needs to be done to regulate supply pressure to the machine and does the machine need any pressure adjustment?

Thanks


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

StuartS said:


> Yes, agreed - more of a stop gap really. At the moment I'm refilling the tank every other day because I draw water off for preheating cups and occasionally for tea (if my wife isn't having coffee). Plumbing in would be convenient.
> 
> What does the BWT filter cost and how often does it need changing? Also, what needs to be done to regulate supply pressure to the machine and does the machine need any pressure adjustment?
> 
> Thanks


The BWT filters also come in jug cartridges if you can't plumb in.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

You could consider something like this using a larger reservoir of water, thing about bottled water is consistency in quality, using a filter system on mains water will demand monitoring and occasional maintenance.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flojet/b/ref=bl_dp_s_web_3509826031?ie=UTF8&node=3509826031&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Flojet

My thoughts are toward a larger reservoir, luckily I have several of the main components to hand.

Jon.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

StuartS said:


> Yes, agreed - more of a stop gap really. At the moment I'm refilling the tank every other day because I draw water off for preheating cups and occasionally for tea (if my wife isn't having coffee). Plumbing in would be convenient.
> 
> What does the BWT filter cost and how often does it need changing? Also, what needs to be done to regulate supply pressure to the machine and does the machine need any pressure adjustment?
> 
> Thanks


£100 I think can't remember. Once a year

Depending on mains pressure you'd want a pressure reducing valve so maximum of about 2 bar goes to the machine


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm now using Ashbeck and warming the cups on top - see how much water I get through in a week.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

StuartS said:


> I'm now using Ashbeck and warming the cups on top - see how much water I get through in a week.


ASHBECK also has other benefits .......

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?43584-Recycle-Recycle-Recycle-and-Recycle-Again

Plenty of people read it, strange no one made a comment. either way.

Jon.


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

What is the white thing in the reservoir? It leaves a bit of a chalky resedue in the tank when the water empties?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

barrymckenna said:


> What is the white thing in the reservoir? It leaves a bit of a chalky resedue in the tank when the water empties?


Hello Barry - The only white item in my tank is the low water float but that is confined in it's own moulded section in the corner of the tank and the only way to liberate it is to prise the plastic cap off and turn the tank upside down.

If that is in place in yours it does sound as if there's a foreign object in there, are you using any tablets for water treatment in the tank ?.

Jon.


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

xpresso said:


> Hello Barry - The only white item in my tank is the low water float but that is confined in it's own moulded section in the corner of the tank and the only way to liberate it is to prise the plastic cap off and turn the tank upside down.
> 
> If that is in place in yours it does sound as if there's a foreign object in there, are you using any tablets for water treatment in the tank ?.
> 
> Jon.


That's strange. Wonder what it is. I'm using bottled water too. Maybe I should try a different brand. Is there something I can put into the tank to help? Those filter bags? Also, what brand of descaler are you using to clean your machine periodically. I'm on holidays at home and brought the machine down (to stay for time being) but I would like to run something through it before I head back to give it a quick rince.

Thanks for your help!


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

You can see traces here


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

That is akin to a 'Scum' as if, pardon the pun, you have used dish water. (Taking re-cycling to extremes).

At home I use Ashbeck from Tesco's and while I'm away I use Volvic, I have not experienced anything like that, are you convinced nothing has fell into the tank ?. It's what you would expect to see after using some form of soluble tablet ?.

Jon.


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

xpresso said:


> That is akin to a 'Scum' as if, pardon the pun, you have used dish water. (Taking re-cycling to extremes).
> 
> At home I use Ashbeck from Tesco's and while I'm away I use Volvic, I have not experienced anything like that, are you convinced nothing has fell into the tank ?. It's what you would expect to see after using some form of soluble tablet ?.
> 
> Jon.


Definitely not - I've only used the machine 20-30 times and been very careful. Will look at getting descaler tablets on Amazon because they might get here before I go. Would be great to give it a rince before then


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

What descaler would you recommend?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

barrymckenna said:


> What descaler would you recommend?


Two options, either contact the supplier OR @DavecUK who I believe has commented previously on descaling.

Something just does not seem quite right.

Jon.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

What bottled water are you using?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The best method for assessing bottled water is to take the Calcium and magnesium numbers mg per litre and multiply them by 2.5 and 4 respectively, then add the result together. be careful because some water quotes them as mg per 100ml, this means you have to multiply the stated amounts by 10 first to get the per litre figures.









So for Buxton here (and remember the constituents can change over time, so always check).

Calcium = 55 x 2.5 = *137.5*

magnesium = 19 x 4 = *76*

*Total hardness = 213.5 (really hard), not something for the espresso machine.*


​

*Concentration as equivalent CaCO3*

*Indication*0 to 60 mg/L

Soft water60 to 120 mg/L

Moderately hard water120 to 180 mg/L

Hard water>180 mg/L

Very hard water

So trying to keep below 60 is the challenge and I would aim for as low as you can e.g. 40 or less.

Tesco Ashbeck (if it's to be believed)....is about 12mg calcium and 2.5 magnesium for a total hardness of about 47.

Volvic was mentioned, but with 11.5 (Ca) 8 (mg), it works out at 61 total hardness....which is starting to get a little high from a machine protection point of view..


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

Bingo. This is it. The water I was using has 127mg of calcium per litre. That's without multiplying by 2.5!! So very hard water. Thankfully I've only gone through circa 10 litres so caught it in time. Thanks for the help guys. Really appreciate it


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

What descaler would you recommend DaveUk if you don't mind me asking. Will look into getting some ordered. Amazed at how chalky the residue was and can only imagine what it would have done to the machine had I kept using it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

barrymckenna said:


> What descaler would you recommend DaveUk if you don't mind me asking. Will look into getting some ordered. Amazed at how chalky the residue was and can only imagine what it would have done to the machine had I kept using it.


What was the magnesium? that gets multiplied by 4.1....then add em both together and you could be looking east anglia style hard water! 300+

Get a bag of citric acid and dilute to a strength about 40g per litre.............then follow your nose in terms of when you last descaled it, how bad you think it is and common sense in getting the descaler in there and back out again. Remember desacaler needs to be hot to work. I don't know what machine you have or what your boilers are made of?


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

I have a synchronika so they're SS as far as I know. I've ordered ecms own descaler which should sort the group boiler but I'll use your citric acid routine for the steam boiler.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Hello Barry, just to repeat a question posed by @ashcroc , what water were you using ?.

Jon.


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

It's was a local one, Carrick Glen based in Limerick. Have a bottle of Ashbeck now and will stick with that. I've ordered a water test kit too to see what the tap water is like here. It might be decent.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

barrymckenna said:


> It's was a local one, Carrick Glen based in Limerick. Have a bottle of Ashbeck now and will stick with that. I've ordered a water test kit too to see what the tap water is like here. It might be decent.


I can guarantee it will be better than what you were using


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

Wouldn't be hard for it. Jeez in hindsight I could probably tread across Carrick Glen!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

barrymckenna said:


> Wouldn't be hard for it. Jeez in hindsight I could probably tread across Carrick Glen!


Oh..if your in Limeric, the water there is hard according to this map.


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm in Dingle so the water should be better. Last time I buy Limerick water


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

barrymckenna said:


> I'm in Dingle so the water should be better. Last time I buy Limerick water


Say hello to Fungie for me.


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm seeing him Thursday!


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

There's a forum member on here called Stu that put together a spreadsheet for bottle water, it's a very handy bit of info


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

Very handy!


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

This is the chart for water suitable for the least scale in your machine showing brands and the ratios at which the different brands should be mixed to achieve the most machine friendly water. This was put together by @MWJB the forum's resident go-to person for advice on such matters.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/187vd8fjVQGCrvaoEz071BoSEOl-IY3rTl0-fZXLGx1w/htmlview

This was put together as a request in the following thread

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D44335&share_tid=44335&share_fid=6813&share_type=t

Download it or bookmark it somewhere safe as it will be worth referring back to now and again, or to share with other forum members


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## barrymckenna (Oct 26, 2017)

Ok so I ordered a water test kit. It's actually for aquariums but it test 6 different properties. NO3, NO2, GH, KH, pH, Cl2.

In the image the first strip is of Carrick Glen, the bottled water I was using initially. The second strip is Ashbeck from Teaco and the last strip is my own tap water. Amazingly, it looks like my own tap water is the best of the three.

The Carrick Glen has very high values for GH (general hardness) and KH (Carbonate hardness). It also has a very high pH value.

Ashbeck and my tap water are very similar. Ashbeck has a slightly higher GH value but everything else is very similar.

Think I might start bottling my tap water ala Del and Rodney with Peckham Spring!


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

I wonder how this would fair in the water test kit .... I've not put it in the machine, there's Volvic in there, but for drinking at one euro per five litre's .......










Easier to read...










Jon.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

xpresso said:


> I wonder how this would fair in the water test kit .... I've not put it in the machine, there's Volvic in there, but for drinking at one euro per five litre's .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks incredibly soft to me, like, half of Ashbeck.

Too soft for coffee maybe?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

xpresso said:


> I wonder how this would fair in the water test kit .... I've not put it in the machine, there's Volvic in there, but for drinking at one euro per five litre's .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've not spent time looking at the charts as my coffee interests are currently directed at producing cup's of, on demand.

But the drinking water (Tap) is consistent at being inconsistent, so even for providing Tea we tend to use bottled, this particular 5ltr's was noticeable by the price, Volvic here is only two Euro's for 8ltr's with a novel valve at the top ideal for topping up the reservoir.

Jon.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I was quite surprised at how acidic my BWT filtered tap water was. - 5.8 pH, maybe explained why some coffees especially decaf leant towards sour/acidic. I've added bicarbinate buffer which brought it back to 6.8pH with instant improvement.

The trade-off between taste and machine fouling is an interesting dilemma which I'm keen to learn more.

At present I'm at the top end 180ppm total harness and carbonate hardness of 72ppm.


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