# lots of newbie questions



## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Hi all, recently moved to the UK from the US. Had to ditch my Francis Francis single boiler unit and decided it's time for an upgrade to a heat exchange machine. However, these are expensive (to me) so I'd like to try to find one used or refurbished. Specifically, units such as the Fracino Heavenly, Quickmill Alexia, LaCimbali Junior DT1, or a comparable machine. Can any recommend a reputable place to contact about one of these units used or refurbished, or websites that resell them? I'll also keep an eye on the For Sale subsection here. If I can't find one in the next few weeks then I'll probably just grab a refurbished/used Gigga New Baby to hold me over until I find an good HX machine.

Next, I live in Sheffield. I'm interested in doing a latte art course and possibly a barista training as a fun unique date with my partner, who is really into this stuff. Can anyone recommend a place for this? I don't have a car (I can't bring myself to drive on the wrong side of the car and road) so it must be within Sheffield or close to a train station in Manchester, Leeds, etc.

Finally, I just ordered an F30 roast from Origin coffee in London. I strongly encourage anyone who enjoys a nice Columbian or Brazilian coffee to check out Origin.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi there is a ecm technika for sale in the sales thread ,still with warranty at a great price

to access this you'll need to build your post count to 10. Please do this is a non spammy way if you can









callumt a forum member and barista at upshot in Sheffield can do some training I believe .

What grinder do you have


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Not sure how to achieve that in a non-spamming way but I'll try. I have a Bodum French press and grinder that I've been using for a couple months. I don't remember what model or anything though. I plan on upgrading grinders once I get an espresso machine. For now this grinder works for me.

What is the asking price for the ecm technika?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Best bet is to keep an eye on the classifieds here, ebay and Gumtree.

You really need a decent grinder with one of the machines you mentioned, or you will just get terrible espresso and be frustrated. One of the whirly blade ones wont cut it!


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Ten posts is quite easy. Just express an opinion on some of the topics on the forum. Press the What's New link and see what's being talked about at the moment.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

dhawk312 said:


> Not sure how to achieve that in a non-spamming way but I'll try. I have a Bodum French press and grinder that I've been using for a couple months. I don't remember what model or anything though. I plan on upgrading grinders once I get an espresso machine. For now this grinder works for me.
> 
> What is the asking price for the ecm technika?


You're doing it the wrong way.

excellent machine + crap grinder = poor coffee and frustration

excellent grinder + basic machine = excellent coffee, with a bit of practice.

Really not trying to be patronising or anything, it's just that we see this every week (there is a 5 page thread ongoing now) where someone has a rubbish grinder and then wonders why they cant get decent espresso.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

aaronb said:


> You're doing it the wrong way.
> 
> excellent machine + crap grinder = poor coffee and frustration
> 
> ...


The only thing....

If an excellent machine comes up at a good price...it's worth getting, because although the grinder needs an upgrade...why pass up a decent machine bargain. The grinder can follow, won't hurt for a few days will it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The machine is a bargain , but don't expect to get good coffee from it with that grinder . Buy a Machine and grinder at the same time







if you can ....


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> The only thing....
> 
> If an excellent machine comes up at a good price...it's worth getting, because although the grinder needs an upgrade...why pass up a decent machine bargain. The grinder can follow, won't hurt for a few days will it.


Exactly. Right now I'm using my grinder for a very coarse grind for the French press. It does what I need it to. Once I get a machine, then a better grinder will follow. It also doesn't make sense for me to buy a grinder until I know how much counter real estate the (eventual) machine takes up. This would be like buying a bed sheets without owning a mattress, knowing when you'll get a mattress, what size the mattress will be, etc.

I'd rather have excellent coffee beans + a good machine + subpar grinder than a excellent coffee + great grinder but no way to consume it. Same principle as the sheet example. What good is having 1200 thread count Egyptian cotton sheets if you can't sleep on them?

Since people brought the topic up, what grinders are recommended? I know next to nothing about grinders.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As long as you know , you won't be able to make espresso with the current grinder, it will not be consistent enough or fine enough grind ,Then that's fine , it's not it will do a job ...it won't ...sound rude but not trying to be , just trying to make sure you have the right expectations . There are currently 2 or 3 thread where where the OP doesn't have a grinder or one not sufficient of making espresso ( like yours ) . Lots of questions get about how to make acceptable coffee. There is only one .. Get a decent grinder capable of espresso and use fresh beans .

How much space and money do you have for a grinder


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Maybe £100 for a grinder. Ideally, the smaller the footprint the better.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Honestly I wouldn't recommend technika machine if you are only intending to spend £100 on a grinder.

I'm not advocating spending £100s but you need to think about a total budget and how to split that betweena good machine and a great grinder. Not £900 on machine and £100 on grinder . What's your total budget for a set up ( machine and grinder )

Grinder is incredibly important, equal to or more than the machine itself . An expensive machine will not compensate for a sub par grinder.

The grinder delivers the ingredient , if this is sub par the machine can not correct it .


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Total budget is about £700. I noticed someone selling a Rancilio Rocky in the For Sale section for £100. This is one grinder a friend suggested.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Cool now whe are getting somewhere










£265 for something like a mignion grinder ( new ) will fit your space requirements

Rest on a used machine , sorry the technika I mentioned was £950 ( new £1600 ) so is out of budget .


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

dhawk312 said:


> Exactly. Right now I'm using my grinder for a very coarse grind for the French press. It does what I need it to. Once I get a machine, then a better grinder will follow. It also doesn't make sense for me to buy a grinder until I know how much counter real estate the (eventual) machine takes up. This would be like buying a bed sheets without owning a mattress, knowing when you'll get a mattress, what size the mattress will be, etc.
> 
> I'd rather have excellent coffee beans + a good machine + subpar grinder than a excellent coffee + great grinder but no way to consume it. Same principle as the sheet example. What good is having 1200 thread count Egyptian cotton sheets if you can't sleep on them?
> 
> Since people brought the topic up, what grinders are recommended? I know next to nothing about grinders.


The principal is wrong though, because if you buy a £600 machine and a £100 grinder you will not get tasty coffee from it, you will get horrible coffee from it and be frustrated.

If you buy a £550 grinder, and a £150 Gaggia Classic, you will be able to produce excellent coffee and have significantly less frustration.

Loads of us have been there before, we just want to try and help you not make the same mistakes!

For a small footprint grinder look at the Eureka Mignon, one of the forum sponsors is doing it for £265 delivered. £450 will get you a nice second hand machine, just keep an eye on the classifieds here.


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> sorry the technika I mentioned was £950 ( new £1600 ) so is out of budget .


Yea. So I really enjoy coffee. There are few things I find more enjoyable on a daily basis than a heavenly double shot of espresso. But that's a lot of money. I'm a university professor, not a CEO.

Is the Eureka Mignon any good? Is £265 a good price? Or should I try to find a good used grinder?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dhawk312 said:


> Yea. So I really enjoy coffee. There are few things I find more enjoyable on a daily basis than a heavenly double shot of espresso. But that's a lot of money. I'm a university professor, not a CEO.


It wasn't meant to sound as a criticism , i should have asked your budget at the start apologies. I presumed you had researched prices on good hx machines. That was presumptuous so sorry .

You total budget will deliver you a great set up when paired with good fresh beans will be tasty.

Keep an eye on on the sales threads ( when you hit 10 posts ) for machines around the £450-500 mark and pair it with a mignion grinder.


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

No worries. I did look up prices on the HX machines I mentioned in the OP. I've seen the LaCimbali Junior and Fracino Heavenly both for listed/sold for around £400. I never looked up grinders. I just assumed 1/4 of the price of the machine would be fine. I edited my earlier statement, but after you posted. Is the Mignon a good grinder for the price? Should I try to find a used grinder is good shape or just grab a new one?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dhawk312 said:


> No worries. I did look up prices on the HX machines I mentioned in the OP. I've seen the LaCimbali Junior and Fracino Heavenly both for listed/sold for around £400. I never looked up grinders. I just assumed 1/4 of the price of the machine would be fine. I edited my earlier statement, but after you posted. Is the Mignon a good grinder for the price? Should I try to find a used grinder is good shape or just grab a new one?


If you want kitchen friendly and small this is a good fit and within your budget.

Second hand will buy you something good but under the same budget around £250-300

You looking at Mazzer Superjollys and Mazzer mini ( both doser models ) where as a mignion is what is called an on demand grinder ( no doser )

Coffeechap ( member here ) is a good source of second hand , good reconditioned grinders

Coffebean ( member and forum sponsor ) can do you a new mignion for £265 delivered. Lots of people have these and are happy with them


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Great. How do I get in touch with Coffeechap to see what s/he has available or what will be available soon? Do you recommend going with one of the Mazzers or the Mignion? The Mazzers def look much better than the Mignion.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Send him a PM - but you need one more open post before you can access private messaging on the forum.


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks. Got it.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You don't have to go after a mazzer, as there are other grinders that do not command such a high second hand price as the mazzers


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## dhawk312 (Apr 25, 2014)

Just PMed you actually before I saw your post. I'm open to your suggestions about another grinder if you have a couple in mind. If you are reconditioning them then I trust that you also know what you're talking about.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dhawk312 said:


> Just PMed you actually before I saw your post. I'm open to your suggestions about another grinder if you have a couple in mind. If you are reconditioning them then I trust that you also know what you're talking about.


Yes he does







he is the grinder man , no better resource of info on this forum re grinders , levers or just coffee nonsense ....


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

dhawk312 said:


> I trust that you also know what you're talking about.


That made me laugh (sorry). Chap is the "go-to" man when it comes to grinders. He is not human - He is actually half man/half grinder and was brought up by a small pack of Mazzers.

You will be in very safe hands. He has a string of happy customers.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Well I'm only a 'noob' here too, but I definitely concur with the whole grinder vs machine thing. Having read the advice on here I purchased an Iberital MC2 from happy donkey, because it seemed to be the cheapest grinder that was deemed worth having. My machine is just some consumer-grade DeLonghi thing (EC702 or some such thing) that I bought cos it was reduced from £160 to, er, lots less. The espresso I get from it is absolutely great, assuming the beans are to my taste (some are just not). But it's also possible to get a bitter or acidic espresso from a perfectly good bean if the grind is not quite right. I just set it up by adjusting the grind until I can pull 2 x 1oz shots in 25-30 secs. Shorter than that and the grind is too coarse and the espresso really tastes wrong. And that's with a pretty basic espresso machine. Also, having ditched the comedy plastic attachment that's supposed to make milk foaming easier (as if!) I can actually turn out a lovely-textured cappuccino with thick microfoam and body in the 'milky milk' (the bit under the foam I mean!).

The thing that speaks against the MC2 grinder for people who like to switch between french press and espresso is that it takes ages to dial the MC2 in. Once it's set you just adjust slightly for different beans, but no way would I zoom out for a french press after the time it took me to get it right. That's the downside of superfine adjustment. But it sounds like you're all set with a grinder from a good source anyway, so enjoy!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

hotmetal said:


> The thing that speaks against the MC2 grinder for people who like to switch between french press and espresso is that it takes ages to dial the MC2 in. Once it's set you just adjust slightly for different beans, but no way would I zoom out for a french press after the time it took me to get it right. That's the downside of superfine adjustment. But it sounds like you're all set with a grinder from a good source anyway, so enjoy!


I think this the same flaw for most grinders that are good for espresso as they're stepless.

Glad you're getting on well with the MC2


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