# Rocket Giotto Plus V2 or Sage Dual Boiler?



## Roc1 (Jan 6, 2014)

Hi!

New here and would like some advice on a new machine if poss.

Have £1200 max for the machine and its between these two I think. Am edging towards the Rocket Giotto Plus V2 so if anyone could let me know their thoughts on this machine that would be great. Also a recommendation on where to buy from would be equally as nice! Bella Barista is out of stock at the mo, the cheapest I can find it is at Gio-espresso http://www.gio-espresso.co.uk/rocket-giotto-premium-plus-v2-espresso-machine.html but don't know much about them.

Many thanks for any advice!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Two hugely different machines. Suggest you get demo's of each before you pull the trigger. Both will make great coffee. Do you have a grinder? or Budget for one?

The rocket is the kind of machine you leave to someone in your will, build quality and industry standard bomb-proof parts but are you familiar with cooling flushes to regulate brew temperature?.

The Sage is more of an 'appliance' (a fair bit of it is plastic) but very easy to use with lots of tweakable parameters (temp, preinfusion, volumetrics).


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## Roc1 (Jan 6, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Two hugely different machines. Suggest you get demo's of each before you pull the trigger. Both will make great coffee. Do you have a grinder? or Budget for one?
> 
> The rocket is the kind of machine you leave to someone in your will, build quality and industry standard bomb-proof parts but are you familiar with cooling flushes to regulate brew temperature?.
> 
> The Sage is more of an 'appliance' (a fair bit of it is plastic) but very easy to use with lots of tweakable parameters (temp, preinfusion, volumetrics).


thanks for the reply.

yes I have a mignon grinder already so all set in that department. I think I was leaning towards the rocket due to their history and reputation for making quality machines, and wasn't too sure about the overall looks and long term durability of the sage.

Am i right in thinking that after steaming the milk i need to flush in order to get the temp right for brewing? would that be a quick process on the rocket compared to how long it would take on a single boiler for example?

thanks!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

With dual boiler machines no flushing is required, the steam boiler and brew boiler are separate. You can steam milk at the same time as pulling a shot. The whole process is MILES quicker than a single boiler machine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Go in ill say it. Brewtus anyone. ...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Was waiting for that ; )


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Roc1 said:


> thanks for the reply.
> 
> yes I have a mignon grinder already so all set in that department. I think I was leaning towards the rocket due to their history and reputation for making quality machines, and wasn't too sure about the overall looks and long term durability of the sage.
> 
> ...


The idea is that you pull the shot and steam milk at the same time.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Go in ill say it. Brewtus anyone. ...


He'll get equally good results with any of the 3 machines tbh. Regarding the Sage the none metal bits of the frame are actually a composite of some type not simply cheap appliance grade plastic, all the pipes the brew water touches are stainless steel and it's a whole lot lighter and easier to descale. At the end of the day as long as the frame is strong enough to support it all how many times do any of use actually move our machine around, and even if we do none of us do it anything but carefully even if it's a Gaggia Classic.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Was waiting for that ; )


I would have thought a coffee geek like you would have pre emptied it .....


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

If your near Bella Barista you could try different machines to see what you prefer.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As irko said , if I was speeding that kid of money I'd want to try the machine out first if possible .


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

iroko said:


> If your near Bella Barista you could try different machines to see what you prefer.


If he goes into Bella Barista he'll be walking out with something shiny and heavy with a couple of accessories to


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you were comparing a Rocket to an Expobar you would get opinions on both, but this compasison is very different. BB sell both though


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Claudette will give a good account for both machines and, of coarse, he can try them out and make a decision


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## Roc1 (Jan 6, 2014)

thanks for the replies! unfortunately i don't live anywhere near BB otherwise i'd def pop in. I've settled for a Rocket now, so started a new thread as I can't decide between two models! http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?13989-Rocket-Giotto-Plus-vs-Evoluzione-v2


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ill tell you a good case for the Sage. Walked through the door at 7.15pm, decided I wanted coffee so turned on the machine. Opened a new bag of coffee (Bolivia Canton Uyunense) and not even dialled in properly (20>30g in 40 seconds) pulled one of the best espressos Ive had this year so far, if not THE best - oh and this was now only 7.25pm. By 7.30pm Laura had a piccolo in her hand ''wow this is nice'' and the machine had been backflushed and turned off.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Gary, if you were going to be left on and island, which one of the two would you take, assuming you were only allowed one?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Thats a tough one.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Gary, that's why I asked it!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Gary, if you were going to be left on and island, which one of the two would you take, assuming you were only allowed one?


Neither would be much use If there was no electricity ........


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Im still deciding. Await a final write up of the versus battle....

I would say I enjoy using the Sage more and enjoy the drinks more, however the Expo is the better machine. That probably makes no sense .


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Martin, don't be silly. My island would have everything, except Hasbean beans!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Im still deciding. Await a final write up of the versus battle....
> 
> I would say I enjoy using the Sage more and enjoy the drinks more, however the Expo is the better machine. That probably makes no sense .


Don't fall of the fence Gary .....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It's so cosy up here


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> It's so cosy up here


But precarious at times


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I'll do a write to explain the splinters in my backside


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Would you consider buying one?


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Does the sage still have to be returned to base every year or two for a descale and service? I know that was one of the concerns about the breville when it was introduced and would bother me.

That said, descaling both boilers of the Duetto isn't a fun task either.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

lookseehear said:


> Does the sage still have to be returned to base every year or two for a descale and service? I know that was one of the concerns about the breville when it was introduced and would bother me.
> 
> That said, descaling both boilers of the Duetto isn't a fun task either.


No, in fact I believe the descaling routine is very simple now. They certainly addressed the problem.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

lookseehear said:


> Does the sage still have to be returned to base every year or two for a descale and service? I know that was one of the concerns about the breville when it was introduced and would bother me.
> 
> That said, descaling both boilers of the Duetto isn't a fun task either.


No its done by the user (the machine indicates when it needs doing) - seems relatively easy process

Page 19 http://www.breville.co.nz/media/mediaappearance/14570/BES920_IB_B13_FA_LowRes.pdf


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

That's really good to know, good work from Breville/Sage to sort it out.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It would have been a terrible decision to keep it the way it was. Quite simply, the Sage could have been better than anything else in its bracket by a mile, but without the ability to descale at home it wouldn't even be a contender. Having to send it back to base for a descale is absurd.


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