# confused by dosing



## neeb

So, I've been getting the hang of my Giotto Evo over the past few weeks and am very pleased with it!

I'm wondering however what sorts of coffee quantities people are finding work best. I'm using a VST basket (supplied by the retailer when I bought the machine) which is labelled as being 17g, and all the advice I come across seems to recommend using no more than 18 or 19g of coffee at most, and perhaps much less. Now, I can produce a nice espresso with 17 or 18g but the puck is always very soggy afterwards. I can also produce what I think is an equally nice espresso with 20g (and a slightly courser grind), which results in a firm puck that can be knocked out cleanly.

Does the evo tend to need/like overdosing? If I can get as good a coffee using 20g it's just nicer and more convenient to have a firm puck afterwards. But I'm confused that this seems to run contrary to all of the advice on "normal" dosing quantities.

With 20g the tamped puck doesn't actually touch the grouphead filter when the portafiller is attached, but I guess it is very close.

I'm beginning to wonder if the basket could have been mislabelled and is actually larger than 17g...


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## mremanxx

I can only get 16g in my basket, don't think weight of coffee is as important as the ratio pulled, others will correct if I'm wrong, obviously too little coffee is a large basket will cause sogginess.


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## Mrboots2u

neeb said:


> So, I've been getting the hang of my Giotto Evo over the past few weeks and am very pleased with it!
> 
> I'm wondering however what sorts of coffee quantities people are finding work best. I'm using a VST basket (supplied by the retailer when I bought the machine) which is labelled as being 17g, and all the advice I come across seems to recommend using no more than 18 or 19g of coffee at most, and perhaps much less. Now, I can produce a nice espresso with 17 or 18g but the puck is always very soggy afterwards. I can also produce what I think is an equally nice espresso with 20g (and a slightly courser grind), which results in a firm puck that can be knocked out cleanly.
> 
> Does the evo tend to need/like overdosing? If I can get as good a coffee using 20g it's just nicer and more convenient to have a firm puck afterwards. But I'm confused that this seems to run contrary to all of the advice on "normal" dosing quantities.
> 
> With 20g the tamped puck doesn't actually touch the grouphead filter when the portafiller is attached, but I guess it is very close.
> 
> I'm beginning to wonder if the basket could have been mislabelled and is actually larger than 17g...


17 g vst basket ?

could it be a 17g LM basket or a 18 g vst basket

there isnt a 17g vst basket ( apart from the misprints from 3 years ago )

either one is recommended dose of 17-19 g


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## neeb

Mrboots2u said:


> 17 g vst basket ?
> 
> could it be a 17g LM basket or a 18 g vst basket
> 
> there isnt a 17g vst basket ( apart from the misprints from 3 years ago )
> 
> either one is recommended dose of 17-19 g


You're right, I had thought it was a VST but I just checked and it's a 17g LM.


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## Mrboots2u

neeb said:


> You're right, I had thought it was a VST but I just checked and it's a 17g LM.


Ok its good for 17-19 in general

Less coffee - finer grind in the basket

some headspace in the basket isnt a bad thing


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## neeb

So I should just accept that the pucks will be soggy and not knock out cleanly?


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## jeebsy

If the coffee tastes good then yes


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## jlarkin

If the 20 tastes equally good and fits then why not use that though?


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## Mrboots2u

jlarkin said:


> If the 20 tastes equally good and fits then why not use that though?


Try both

Compare

Not a fan of stuffing coffee in a basket til it hits the shower screen though

Less coffee > extra shot a bag ?


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## jeebsy

Less tasty beverage in your cup though


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## neeb

Mrboots2u said:


> Try both
> 
> Compare
> 
> Not a fan of stuffing coffee in a basket til it hits the shower screen though
> 
> Less coffee > extra shot a bag ?


That's the weird thing, 20g doesn't hit the shower screen (not until it's wet anyway).


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## Mrboots2u

neeb said:


> That's the weird thing, 20g doesn't hit the shower screen (not until it's wet anyway).


Coffee expands

It needs room to do this in


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## jeebsy

It needs room to expand too


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## Mrboots2u

Two bloody Ronnies here


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## neeb

Yes, I know it expands - and I know it's not good for it to be touching the screen before being pulled, but isn't it normal for it to do so after being pulled, enough to result in a dry puck at least?


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> Two bloody Ronnies here


 More like the chuckle brothers


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## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> Two bloody Ronnies here


Four candles



neeb said:


> Yes, I know it expands - and I know it's not good for it to be touching the screen before being pulled, but isn't it normal for it to do so after being pulled, enough to result in a dry puck at least?


It might touch a bit but needs room to expand properly, it shouldn't get totally squashed


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## neeb

jeebsy said:


> It might touch a bit but needs room to expand properly, it shouldn't get totally squashed


Makes sense. I've heard of using a dime in a U.S.context to set the distance between puck and screen. 10p here, maybe? And would you have it making a slight impression (or none) on the tamped coffee?

If I can use something like that to corroborate a lower weight being correct, then maybe I'll just put up with soggy pucks...


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## jeebsy

Have you got a bottomless pf to see if over filling the basket affects extraction? The systemic kid found over dosing could promote donut type extractions to


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## fluffles

jeebsy said:


> Less tasty beverage in your cup though


Why so ?


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## jeebsy

18x2= 36

20x2=40


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## fluffles

jeebsy said:


> 18x2= 36
> 
> 20x2=40


Ahh, you meant "less of the tasty beverage"? I thought you meant "the beverage is less tasty"!


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## neeb

jeebsy said:


> Have you got a bottomless pf to see if over filling the basket affects extraction? The systemic kid found over dosing could promote donut type extractions to


Unfortunately not, but something to think about for the future.

I've been playing around and have sort of settled now on 18.5g, which seems to produce a not-too-soggy puck (it's softish, but not really soggy). This also happens to be the amount that if a 10p coin is placed on top of the coffee and the portafiller attached, will produce just a very faint impression of the coin on the coffee. So nearly a couple of mm room for the puck to expand.


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## jeebsy

What tastes the best? Youre making coffee, not pucks


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## neeb

Well, that's the thing, there isn't an obvious difference. And there are plenty of other variables that DO make an obvious difference, so I just want to get this dosing thing nailed down so that I can keep it constant and then fiddle with the other variables...


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## insatiableOne

Just mess with one thing at a time.

A soggy puck really does not affect anything, some blends get that no matter what I have tried as long as it tastes good whats it really matter??

The dose will also vary with different roast from light to dark requiring more grams to achieve the same effect.


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## Olliehulla

dosing 19g in an 18g VST with 36g output in around 26-27 secs, pucks seem fine and knock out OK, more importantly coffee tastes great

interestingly, currently on some Columbian Suarez and with the same tamp, for the same weight it takes up less space in the basket than my previous bean which was a monsooned malabar


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