# Is the expobar dual boiler any good?



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Would like the thoughts and experience of those that own these, the rules of this thread are there must not be any mention of the other machine that seems to have consumed the forum.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I've had mine for 4 weeks now. Love the controlability and the way it pours. What has really impressed me, apart from the intensity of the flavours I get from the correct extraction at correct temperature and pressure is the texture or feel of the shot. As an espresso drinker it is noticeable when you get that velvetty touch on your tongue. No overheating, no flushing, no fuss. When doing my research before buying, which involved basically sending out e-mails to any company that sold espresso machines, nearly all of them recommended the Expobar which actually surprised me as I thought they'd recommend something more expensive. Also, it's a nice tough being able to switch each of the boilers off - especially as I never steam.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I don't think that anyone has ever doubted that the Expobar Dual Boiler is a good and capable machine, and also extremely good value for the money, after all if one were to do a forum search about them , there would be a lot of reading. The only criticism I ever hear about them is to do with how they look and that they aren't as "pretty" as a Rocket, along with one or 2 others it's still at the top of my upgrade list as I can't foreseeably afford an L1.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Didnt think you could turn yhe steam boiler off that's good to know


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Incredibly easy to live with and very consistent. It has a worldwide cult following for a reason.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'm itching to get one - if the raffle doesn't come through I'm going to buy one. The function is more important than the form and don't think it looks bad anyway - industrial chic - so if that's the only downside it's a winner.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Get yourself the dark wood handle and knob kit from BB. That's all it takes to outclass a Rocket.

I almost never change the settings on mine, but the point is you can. Brew pressure, steam pressure, brew temp, which of the two boilers you want on, as well as all manner of things via the PID.

It is very consistent. Makes good coffee. What more do you need?


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

personally I love the retro styling of the expobar....traditional e61 with all the shiny chrome/ stainless and dials.

the vibe pump is quite noisy, though there is a rotary option.

big jump up from my previous machine the classic, in terms of consistency, temperature stability (pid) and it's a steaming monster


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Expobarista said:


> Get yourself the dark wood handle and knob kit from BB. That's all it takes to outclass a Rocket.


Hadn't seen them before...very nice. Think I prefer the maple though.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I have an oak kitchen so the dark suits. The maple is pretty bright.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Impressed to find the brewtus a heavy/ solid piece of kit. Get the impression it will last a very long time with the proven E61 group. Should I ever require spare parts they are easily obtainable and well priced. i.e.got prices from expobar to convert from tank fed to inline with official parts = approx £30.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Slightly tempted to convert mine + rotary pump


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## rmcgandara (Feb 12, 2013)

I would actually ask back, what is not to like about it?

dual boiler

PID'ed

E61

cheap in its range

"classic" E61 group

I think people might want a more polished look, but for that I would just recommend an wood upgrade on the handles and its looks are just improved massively.

I can only compare it with a Gaggia Carezza.

so what is not to like?


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

If I was spending this sort of money on a bit of kit then aesthetics would be very important, but I find the expobar to be a good looking bit of kit, especially without the wood, which is just a bit old fashioned for my tastes.


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## fluffykiwi (Dec 19, 2011)

Ive had one of these for a couple of years. Not the latest model - a Mark II brewtus. I'm pretty sure it was used in the industry before I got my hands on it (was well used, but well maintained) and for me it has been relatively bullet-proof (and when not, very cheap and easy to get parts). Unless you are a coffee-snob, the aesthetics are still eye-catching (99% of people who come into my kitchen think 'bloody hell'). I'm still not convinced you can consistently get a better coffee from a different E61 machine. Maybe the other e61 machines steam a bit quicker, but that is it. So for me it works: consistent to use, reliable and the limiting factor in my coffee experience is not the machine (i.e. it is me, the beans or the grinder).


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

I've had mine a couple of months now, and am very happy overall.

They are a capable machine, and for the money i'd buy one again.

I wouldn't be able to tell how much better a Duetto/Verona/R58 is at making espresso/milk, but it's good enough for me!

Likes

- Consistency

- Dual Boiler control (PID etc.)

- Looks

Dislikes

- Build quality is a bit patchy in places (the majority is OK)

- Vibe pump is very loud (if you can, opt for a rotary)

Whoever wins one in tonight's auction will be very happy!


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## fluffykiwi (Dec 19, 2011)

actually, I agree with Aphelion on the cons:

1) my drip tray doesn't fit properly.

2) I had to find and put some handles on the top myself (to get to the tank)

=build/finish

3) it is loud when the pump is running - conversation stopping


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You guys need to look at dampening the machine. I used tiny blobs of sugru under the drip tray cover and under the cup holder.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> You guys need to look at dampening the machine. I used tiny blobs of sugru under the drip tray cover and under the cup holder.


Sugru I thought that must be I typo!! But nope something else I didnt know about!! Looks very useful stuff especially if I buy a Brewtus!


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> You guys need to look at dampening the machine. I used tiny blobs of sugru under the drip tray cover and under the cup holder.


Interesting gaz, Next time i fire up brewtus will remove drip and cup trays and check the noise difference:good:


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The cup tray is a sound insulator when tight and vibration free


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## Jon12345 (Dec 2, 2013)

How long does this machine take to heat up? I am considering this or the Sage Dual Boiler.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Get this, not the Sage.

20 minutes is enough, 10 if pushed.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> Get this, not the Sage.
> 
> 20 minutes is enough, 10 if pushed.


Expo, if you haven't even been near the Sage best to keep your trap shut about it. Both the Expobar and the Sage are good machines, albeit aimed at different people, if Expobar all of a sudden adopted the Sage's featureset or had started to sell the Sage branded as an Expobar you'd have been all over it drooling.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Charlie the same could be said if you haven't had an expobar, this is an enthusiasts forum and the expo is aimed at the enthusiast more than the sage, which is clearly aimed at more of a beginner in coffee making. So the question is what is the requesters experience and where do they want to take their coffee making skills?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Charlie the same could be said if you haven't had an expobar, this is an enthusiasts forum and the expo is aimed at the enthusiast more than the sage, which is clearly aimed at more of a beginner in coffee making. So the question is what is the requesters experience and where do they want to take their coffee making skills?


Dave I know the Expobar is a good machine and makes good coffee when used properly(the same goes for any decent machine) and have never claimed otherwise. I simply cannot agree with you regarding the Sage simply being a beginners machine with the feature set it has, if you choose to use it and if you do you can also do a lot more manipulation of shot variables which are decidely not aimed at beginner. Granted a lot of the" buy it from John Lewis because its the most expensive machine there" brigade will be beginners but we all start our journey somewhere and the Sage would certainly last someone longer as a 1st machine than a Gaggia Classic or a Silvia as it has plenty of things for people to grow into.

With either the Sage or the Expobar if you don't know how to prepare your shot properly the results will be crap coffee, the Sage can't remove this variable as you still need the skills to get the results, ok so you do it by pressing a button to pull your shot, but it's your choice over whether to go manual or use the volumetrics or variable time functions for the single or double shot buttons. What I'm trying to say is there is no reason why a knowledgeable person could not pull equally good shots on either machine consistently, beginners won't have this knowledge, but there is nothing stopping any beginner with money splashing out on any machine even a GS3 if they were so inclined. The Sage may be easier to purchase from a retailer but not everywhere even has a branch of John Lewis.

Bottom line for me is we should quit bashing the Sage and wait and see what happens with it, it's a capable machine whatever way you choose to see the cost of it, and by any of those methods its a £850 + machine so should be judged as that not as a beginners toy.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I think the chap is right in saying the Sage is aimed at a beginner rather than an enthusiast.

Firstly - It's sold through a high street chain - unlike enthusiast machines.

Secondly - It's got a celebrity endorsement clearly aimed for mass appeal.

I'm not saying it's a bad machine and cannot make excellent coffee in the hands of the right person, but it's clearly marketed for the mainstream or wealthy beginner. They may also attract impulse buys. The Expo or any other enthusiast machine relies on the customers knowledge and experience to source and purchase - they are not purchased on a whim. They are purchased by enthusiasts

Anyway... Back on track.... Expo. Great machine


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Daren said:


> I think the chap is right in saying the Sage is aimed at a beginner rather than an enthusiast.
> 
> Firstly - It's sold through a high street chain - unlike enthusiast machines.
> 
> ...


Hmm not sure John Lewis are a High St chain, there's certainly not a lot of them around up north, Manchester's Trafford Centre is the nearest one to me for example there again Bella Barista an enthusiasts shop sell the Sage I would imagine if John Lewis started to sell Rocket machines(far more likely those than expobar because of the style thing) the same set of people you refer to would buy them as well, as I have previously said does the fact that John Lewis sell Silvias and Classic devalue those in terms of where they are aimed?. The Sage celebrity endorsement is a blanket one for every product they make including the kettles and toasters and was in place long before the DB was launched here.

Where you buy a machine from at the end of the day doesn't make it any better or worse, any beginner can find the BB website and order whatever they want, bottom line clueless people will buy expensive coffee machines no matter where they buy from just to make a statement in their kitchens, the internet makes this easy, so BB may not be in every town physically but they are virtually.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

It doesn't matter what I say here Charlie as you won't agree. People impulse buy in John Lewis. I can't imagine you'd stumble upon BB unless you were looking for a machine.

Let's not ruin another thread by hijacking it with talk of the Sage. There are already a number of other threads that have explored every detail already. Let's agree to differ on the target market. This is a thread about the Expo so let's get back on track.

Expo anyone?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Daren said:


> It doesn't matter what I say here Charlie as you won't agree. People impulse buy in John Lewis. I can't imagine you'd stumble upon BB unless you were looking for a machine.
> 
> Let's not ruin another thread by hijacking it with talk of the Sage. There are already a number of other threads that have explored every detail already. Let's agree to differ on the target market. This is a thread about the Expo so let's get back on track.
> 
> Expo anyone?


But why not buy a Rocket HX they're almost the same price


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Daren said:


> Expo anyone?


*Raises hand*


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Just for the record given £1200 , hand on heart I still can't say which machine I would buy, the Sage has plenty of features I like and some that really annoy me, like the auto power off that can't be overridden. I think any of the machines in this price bracket regardless of their cost elsewhere in the world is capable of making an excellent cup of coffee so you pay your money and take your choice.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The auto off thing surely isn't a big deal given it warms up again in three minutes?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Charliej said:


> But why not buy a Rocket HX they're almost the same price


Because it is not a dual boiler perhaps!!! And is not pidded


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

About time you broke open the grinder Charlie..............


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Because it is not a dual boiler perhaps!!! And is not pidded


But it is sexy









Phroarrrrrr


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> About time you broke open the grinder Charlie..............


It's open and on the bench been playing with it today, had some jampit in the Sage and the RR55, no-one is going to be at all surprised by the results in the cup.

The shots using the Smart Grinder seemed very one dimensional, very reminiscent of the results I used to get from the MC2, whereas the shots using the RR55 seemed much more alive, a bit like going from black and white to Technicolour.

The Sage was easy enough to dial in, but that said maybe I got lucky on the 1st try at setting it, it seemed to take ages to grind the 19g of beans unlike the RR55, it's a quite enough grinder, certainly quieter than an MC2, but even Daren with a cactus inserted where the sun doesn't shine is quieter than an MC2. It didn't spill any grinds and the shroud held the portafilter in perfectly well and the ground coffee dropped straight into the basket eventually, it's certainly easy enough to use, I'm going to see if I can get some old stale beans from Roberts & Co in the next day or so as I want to have a play with this feature that supposedly keeps your dose the same whatever your grind level, but I refuse to waste the last of my Jampit messing around with that. So the results so far RR55 1 Sage 0, for me personally I wouldn't buy one now but if the features all work properly and you can switch grind level easily, they will be a useful alternative to the MC2 and maybe the Rocky as well. Certainly at the moment I think if you already have an MC2 or Rocky then the Smart Grinder would be a sidestep not an upgrade and if people are going to end up pairing this with the Dual Boiler then they will be missing out on the tastes a better grinder will help to provide.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Charliej said:


> Expo, if you haven't even been near the Sage best to keep your trap shut about it. .


You might want to rephrase that pal


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> You might want to rephrase that pal


You going to be offering me the option to go outside next?

When you have no knowledge of something you have no basis on which to dismiss that thing, we all know you love your Brewtus but everyone is different some people might prefer something else so a point blank dismissal is just ignorant. A reasoned statement of why you think someone should choose machine A over machine B is a useful thing.

As my Grandmother used to say " if you haven't got anything useful to say don't say anything".


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Gees Charlie, chill man, your retort was a little short and tad bit rude, the thread is about the expo which I started as a tongue in cheek effort to take focus away from the sage as it was hogging the limelight in this forum. I don't think anyone is offering you out for a scrap, just merely stating the obvious!


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

I think you need to reassess your evening charles


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Question if I may? How much of a step up is the Expobar Brewtus from the Oscar ? Would there be miles apart in terms of taste in the cup ? When I entered the raffle for the Brewtus I was dreading if I won purely for the size and possible rejigging of the kitchen to accommodate it, however something like the Oscar can be introduced quite easily without too much upheaval. But if I did win the Brewtus should I be redesigning the kitchen to get it in ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The brewtus is not that big and is a big step up from the Oscar.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Oscar is 11w x 15d x 15h, Brewtus is 10.3w x 18d x 15h apparently


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Oscar is 11w x 15d x 15h, Brewtus is 10.3w x 18d x 15h apparently


I was quite surprised by how small the Brewtus actually is in the flesh.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Getting a bit heated on here! Its just a warm brown drink after all.

I still want an EK43. haha


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Oscar is 11w x 15d x 15h, Brewtus is 10.3w x 18d x 15h apparently


 Assume this is old money!! not mm or cm Jeebsy think you are showing your age!!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Got the info from an American site and they love their imperial


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I went through school when they were still imperial and metric measurements for stuff so am sort of bilingual in that lol It was weird though having a metal work and tech drawing teacher who would only use metric to the old woodwork teacher who refused to use metric. I still find it easier to visualise stuff when dimensions are stated in inches rather than millimetres.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I play a fair amount of vinyl so 12 inches it's pretty easy to visualise (could have used something else there)


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Got the info from an American site and they love their imperial


They sure do!! inches just make everything seem small! Now 261 x 457 x 381 sounds so big not even sure will fit through my front door!!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I play a fair amount of vinyl so 12 inches it's pretty easy to visualise (could have used something else there)


 Yeah but I guess 7/8" isn't that impressive lol


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Well, I will go metric inch by inch!


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