# How long to aerate milk for latte art?



## AL3XTUDOR (Nov 17, 2014)

So im back, and i still cant do latte art! For some reason my pattern only appears as the cup is VERY full and always overflows?

Anyone know why?

I want art like this (





 ) . The white, textured milk automatically comes half way through the pour without him doing alot of manipulation?

So, how much air do i need to let in during the stretching phase? Because im doing something wrong as i want the textured milk to appear half way up the cup instead of right near the top of the cup so it overflows!

Please help


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

AL3XTUDOR said:


> So im back, and i still cant do latte art! For some reason my pattern only appears as the cup is VERY full and always overflows?
> 
> Anyone know why?
> 
> I want art like this (


When you find out tell me Fed up watching videos, they make it look so easy, would be a great skill to have though.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Bugger forgot to add, my understanding is that you stop stretching once the milk starts to heat up, I think the technique is in having the wand tip just in the right place to produce the microfoam as soon as possible.

Lots of people on here can keep us right if I'm wrong though


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

AL3XTUDOR said:


> So im back, and i still cant do latte art! For some reason my pattern only appears as the cup is VERY full and always overflows?
> 
> Anyone know why?
> 
> I want art like this (


My guess would be the tip of the jug isn't near enough to the surface


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I live near Limini and I think I might need to go on one of their latte art courses. There is quite obviously a knack to getting the milk just right and sometimes watching Youtube tutorials just don't cut it. There is no substitute for having someone stood next to you showing you how to do it. Holding he jug in the right spot. At just the right depth. Knowing when to stop etc.

On the flip side some people may be able to get it from the online videos. For the rest of us we need a little bit of extra help.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I like to think it is just one or two little tweaks to the technique myself, and others from the sound of it, need to change then we'll be well on our way to being able to start practising latte art!


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

m4lcs67 said:


> I live near Limini and I think I might need to go on one of their latte art courses. There is quite obviously a knack to getting the milk just right and sometimes watching Youtube tutorials just don't cut it. There is no substitute for having someone stood next to you showing you how to do it. Holding he jug in the right spot. At just the right depth. Knowing when to stop etc.
> 
> On the flip side some people may be able to get it from the online videos. For the rest of us we need a little bit of extra help.


Good idea! Youri, i hear is an excellent tutor.


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

Depends on how powerful the steam wand is I suppose. The only time I aerate or stretch the milk for more than 1 second is for a cappuccino. The milk has to be swirling though and when you're finished make sure you swirl the milk in the jug before pouring up until you are about to pour. It also sounds like you may be pouring too slowly, making the stream of milk being poured too fine and then the thicker stuff falling out at the end.

Like I said in your last thread regarding the same matter, get a video up. There are far too many variables that could affect pouring and milk texture and density, none of us can give you an accurate description of what you are or not doing right if we don't know what you're doing.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Ive just changed to red skimmed milk, i have put on a 5 hole tip to get it working & stretching a bit more.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mistake number one for me right there, I've been aerating the milk for like 10 secs before plunging it below the surface of the milk. Before when I was only doing so for a few seconds or so, there didn't seem any volume to the milk at all.

Presently using a single hole tip on my Brewtus IV but starting to think I should try something like a 3-hole tip.


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

Also forgot to ask, what milk are you using? If it's less than 1% fat then forget about it. It's a whole different game. Most pros struggle with it. Just to note, I use 0.3% fat skimmed at work and it's crap. Sometimes I wander why I call myself a barista when I try latte art with that stuff.


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Mistake number one for me right there, I've been aerating the milk for like 10 secs before plunging it below the surface of the milk. Before when I was only doing so for a few seconds or so, there didn't seem any volume to the milk at all.
> 
> Presently using a single hole tip on my Brewtus IV but starting to think I should try something like a 3-hole tip.


Like I said, totally depends on the power of the steam wand. And also, like I've said in other threads, do all of the stretching FIRST once the milk has been stretched don't stretch it anymore. Just texture it. Once you've finished stretching you don't want to hear anymore of that "kissing" sound, none. All you're doing after that is waiting for the milk to get to desired temperature.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Usually semi-skimmed (green label) but I did try whole milk (blue label) as read it produces better microfoam but sadly as my technique isn't there yet, didn't find it made any difference.


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

The procedure I follow is this. Purge the steam wand then place the jug so the tip is touching the milk then turn on the steam. Lower the milk away from the nozzle for a fraction of a second so as to create some bubbles then raise the jug back up again so the tip of the steam wand it touching the milk again. All of this is done in a couple of seconds. At this point the bubbles will start to reduce and disappear and the remaining ones will be drawn to the tip and sucked into the milk and combined. Once the bulk of the bubbles have been sucked into the milk (maybe 20 seconds or so I plunge the tip deeper into the milk to finish it off. I have two Temp Tags on my milk jug (Toroid 12oz pitcher). One for semi skimmed which reacts at 65 degrees and a soya one which changes at 58 degrees. I use these as my gauges as to whether the milk is suitably steamed or not. For Latte Art what temperature does the milk need to be? Am I putting too much air into it? Milk for Latte art looks to be quite runny, so I would assume that it doesn't want too much air putting into it? Once done I tap the jug on the counter to remove any excess bubbles while swirling the jug around. I'll stop when the top of the milk is glossy and shiny.

I use an Espro Toroid 12oz pitcher which I find really good as it is specially designed to give great results when milk texturising. Or should I go back to a standard jug?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I also have an Espro Toroid 2 pitcher and do find the special shape helps create that vortex effect in the milk. Have a Motta Europa and a plain vanilla Andrew James pitcher too.


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Nice one DoubleShot. That is why I went for the Toroid. The specially designed shape with the wide bottom and the dimple causes the vortex which combines the milk and air together. Such a clever thing. I still have my existing jugs, but they are all but redundant. The 12oz one does enough milk for a couple of small cappuccinos for the wife and I. Anything larger and I think the Classic would run out of steam before I had finished. That is why I have stayed with the 12oz Toroid. The larger one would probably be too much. I guess I could test things out with my larger standard jug by putting the maximun amount of milk that goes into the large Toroid and see how it does.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Check out this slikk barista for some inspiration:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvT3R_ZzDkAB2NYDWWJVitw

Sometimes in similar videos I've seen them steam milk in a large pitcher then partially pour some of it into a smaller pitcher with which they create latte art. Maybe the members blessed with such skills could comment if this might help us mere mortals out?


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

m4lcs67 said:


> The procedure I follow is this. Purge the steam wand then place the jug so the tip is touching the milk then turn on the steam. Lower the milk away from the nozzle for a fraction of a second so as to create some bubbles then raise the jug back up again so the tip of the steam wand it touching the milk again. All of this is done in a couple of seconds. At this point the bubbles will start to reduce and disappear and the remaining ones will be drawn to the tip and sucked into the milk and combined. Once the bulk of the bubbles have been sucked into the milk (maybe 20 seconds or so I plunge the tip deeper into the milk to finish it off. I have two Temp Tags on my milk jug (Toroid 12oz pitcher). One for semi skimmed which reacts at 65 degrees and a soya one which changes at 58 degrees. I use these as my gauges as to whether the milk is suitably steamed or not. For Latte Art what temperature does the milk need to be? Am I putting too much air into it? Milk for Latte art looks to be quite runny, so I would assume that it doesn't want too much air putting into it? Once done I tap the jug on the counter to remove any excess bubbles while swirling the jug around. I'll stop when the top of the milk is glossy and shiny.
> 
> I use an Espro Toroid 12oz pitcher which I find really good as it is specially designed to give great results when milk texturising. Or should I go back to a standard jug?


Sounds like a pretty solid procedure. A couple things worth mentioning, what is your steam wand tip position in the jug - imagine a clock or watch face, what minute would it be and how far from the wall of the jug is it, also sort of what angle is it entering the milk?

For comparison purposes, I keep the tip at about the '45 minute' mark in the jug about half an inch or so from the wall of the jug, and on an angle about 20 degrees off vertical away from me - I hope this makes sense. And when I steam, the milk doesn't bubble but has a nice smooth swirl. Once I have the milk stretched I don't bother plunging it. I find that stops the milk from swirling and makes it look like boiling water (or sometimes just doesn't really do anything - no swirl or boil). Probably from throwing the steam wand off angle in relation to the position of the jug. Try keeping it just below the surface of the milk but not so close you will hear the hissing sound. Between starting steaming, stretching, texturising and turning off the steam wand, I must move the jug a matter of millimeters.

Temperature doesn't affect milk texture - or at least between 63c for a latte and around 80c for a hot chocolate it doesn't. You can usually tell if you've let too much air into the milk, if it is at all stiff in the jug then yes, it shouldn't be hard to swirl around once you've finished steaming. If it has a really glossy look and not at all fluffy or matte look then you've probably done a good job.

Next is pouring. My technique (I hope this helps someone on here), these are methods I've developed in the last 6 months working in a specialty coffee house, and have improved my end result drastically since I started:


Swirl the espresso by itself in the cup

Pour a dash of steamed milk (10-20 ml doesn't really matter, all this is for is to change the colour of the crema closer to the colour of the milk - helps to disguise the beige in between bits and produce a sharper contrast)

Swirl the espresso and milk mixture so it's thoroughly mixed and one colour

Now pour another dash but pour it more carefully and in a semi circle around the cup (about half an inch away from the wall), this creates the base your latte art will sit on.*

Tilt the cup towards you

Get your jug REAL close to the mixture**

Pour slowly but consistently - not so slow you just get untextured milk and not too quickly that milk just flies out

You should be getting latte art forming immediately in the form of a dot - this dot will form the very bottom layer of a tulip.

Keep adding layers - they don't have to be large, if you're careful with your pour and not too aggressive they will just simply stack.

While pouring, don't forget to tilt the cup back to horizontal.


*I've found if I create a "base" then stir it, milk just sinks below the crema and becomes difficult to form any latte art. So create a base and leave it, once you've done that, you're ready to start pouring latte art.

**Steps 6 through 9 are what I employ for a tulip design. For a rosetta I get to step 3 and once there instead of creating a base I just pour the milk in a circular motion around the cup a few inches higher than the cup until about half full or just over and come real close - without stopping the pour - and start the jiggle. When you're pouring high and around in circles you are trying to hold off any white appearing - you can do this by pouring over the white bits that have formed, this will suck it back down.

P.s. sorry for my long post, I probably could have condensed it considerably but alas, I have been up for about 20 hours now and knackered. I just hope something in this long ramble will help someone.


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

That is a brilliant post. Thanks alot. With my Toroid pitcher you keep it right in the centre (that is due to the design of it). The dimple in the centre of the jug creates it's own vortex which stirs up the milk and air. I'll have a dabble with my standard jug as well. My coffee making skills are pretty decent these days as are my milk texurising ones. All I need to do is to hone my latte art skills. Well. You can't beat a bit of theatre;-)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Mistake number one for me right there, I've been aerating the milk for like 10 secs before plunging it below the surface of the milk. Before when I was only doing so for a few seconds or so, there didn't seem any volume to the milk at all.
> 
> Presently using a single hole tip on my Brewtus IV but starting to think I should try something like a 3-hole tip.


For the millionth time - do a video


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Most people I've trained try to pour the milk too quickly. Slow it down and try to use a pushing motion to get the white to appear.

JP


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