# La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi 2 Descale Advice please



## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Looking for some advice regarding descale on my twin boiler machine. My thoughts are if I attempted a citric acid flush from my water tank i will not be able to raise the strength needed for descaling the steam boiler. I attach 2 images of the top of boiler with arrow for ease of locating the part i hope you can help with.

I think this is a pressure relief valve i was thinking if i could remove this and syphon the tank then fill with descaler solution leave in for an hour or so then syphon out if need be repeat and finally fill and syphon water out before switching on and flushing via the hot water tap and steam wand.

My primary concerns is it safe to remove the bolt and second what descale solution may be safe and strong enough i think the heating element is part of the boiler assembly so not sure if a boiler would be available but guess it would be expensive.

Is it safer leaving well alone

machine is 2012 had almost a week purchased off forum member

Symptom when drawing about 100ml water the tank re fills and starts heating again. It seems the time it takes for reheating back to temperature may mean the tank that i think is 800ml capacity is perhaps reduced near say half of that


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The valve indicated is a vacuum valve. It is quite safe to remove it (it may have a teflon seal under its shoulder or it may tave P T F E tape sealing the thread.

You appear to be under the impression that the steam boiler is filled with water ? it is not it is only partially filled, the top section being filled with steam.

The probe in the centre of the boiler controls the water level in the boiler. You can check for scale by slackening the smaller nut and withdrawing the probe

to check for scale on it.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Thank you very much I have ptfe tape so that's hopefully strong enough for the job. I appreciate that only the top is steam so thank you for that

Do you feel the probe hole would be sufficient diameter for me to syphon the water out please. Would you by any chance know a safe strong descale solution for the boiler please

?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Border_all said:


> Thank you very much I have ptfe tape so that's hopefully strong enough for the job. I appreciate that only the top is steam so thank you for that
> 
> Do you feel the probe hole would be sufficient diameter for me to syphon the water out please. Would you by any chance know a safe strong descale solution for the boiler please
> 
> ?


 Yes. C citric acid 50g per 500ml. Best to fill the boiler 75%, pop the vac breaker back on bring it up to just above 100 and the vac breaker closes, then switch off, shake the machine about every 10 minutes and leave it for about 1 hour.

Make sure you get a very large syringe.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Yes. C citric acid 50g per 500ml. Best to fill the boiler 75%, pop the vac breaker back on bring it up to just above 100 and the vac breaker closes, then switch off, shake the machine about every 10 minutes and leave it for about 1 hour.
> 
> Make sure you get a very large syringe.


 Thanks Dave do you feel syphon would be okay i bought a few meters of plastic pipe today and was thinking of doing similar to what you might have done in the past when syphoning petrol. No idea other than ebay who might sell long syringes ?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I did exactly this on my mini v. There's a post somewhere showing the before and after shot. Worked really well with citric acid. Got the idea from the S1 cafe forum.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I've done it it's fine.


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

Border_all said:


> Thanks Dave do you feel syphon would be okay i bought a few meters of plastic pipe today and was thinking of doing similar to what you might have done in the past when syphoning petrol. No idea other than ebay who might sell long syringes ?


 I suspect that you might be able to find 50 ml syringe in a Pharmacy? It helps a lot. I usually use one and the results are encouraging.

On the auction site you can buy 100, 150 or 200 ml too. Might be better, 50 ml is way too small.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Border_all said:


> Thanks Dave do you feel syphon would be okay i bought a few meters of plastic pipe today and was thinking of doing similar to what you might have done in the past when syphoning petrol. No idea other than ebay who might sell long syringes ?


 Just put a bucket on the floor, put the tube into the boiler until it touches the bottom, loop the tube down and back up, then suck it through. Stop when liquid is in the loop then drop the end into the bucket to start the flow.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Jony said:


> I've done it it's fine.


 Thank you


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

John Yossarian said:


> I suspect that you might be able to find 50 ml syringe in a Pharmacy? It helps a lot. I usually use one and the results are encouraging.
> 
> On the auction site you can buy 100, 150 or 200 ml too. Might be better, 50 ml is way too small.


 Thank you


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

lake_m said:


> Just put a bucket on the floor, put the tube into the boiler until it touches the bottom, loop the tube down and back up, then suck it through. Stop when liquid is in the loop then drop the end into the bucket to start the flow.


 Thank you i am crazy but love the old ways lol

Guessing that the group boiler can just be done in the usual way citric acid through the water tank boiler turned off?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Border_all said:


> Thank you i am crazy but love the old ways lol
> 
> Guessing that the group boiler can just be done in the usual way citric acid through the water tank boiler turned off?


 Yes with lots of flushing afterwards!


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

lake_m said:


> Yes with lots of flushing afterwards!


 Cheers ??


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

It's worth getting hold of a new viton o ring for the vacuum breaker. There is a rebate for an o ring on the shaft but mine (purchased brand new) had a million turns of PTFE tape wound around instead. Despite a few attempts with new PTFE tape I couldn't get it to seal properly until I fitted the correct sized o ring - then it was perfect. You next question is 'what size o ring'. I can't remember but it was something like 12mm ID. If you can get hold of a selection pack of different sizes it would help.

edit found this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPAZIALE-Espresso-Coffee-Machine-vacuum-valve-o-ring-gasket-original-New-/271919399163


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

> Quote


 So short update. Bolt came out without trauma ? 500ml taken out with syphon water was bitty popped in the citric solution and switched on after short pause it blew my house electric ?. Put the power switch into 15amp and made start on group boiler after resetting the electric. The solution coming out is pea green so work in progress. Electric contact cleaner around all terminals and re tighten earth leads Bingo boiler is for the moment back on. So work in progress but perhaps i may need do this again in short order.


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

lake_m said:


> It's worth getting hold of a new viton o ring for the vacuum breaker. There is a rebate for an o ring on the shaft but mine (purchased brand new) had a million turns of PTFE tape wound around instead. Despite a few attempts with new PTFE tape I couldn't get it to seal properly until I fitted the correct sized o ring - then it was perfect. You next question is 'what size o ring'. I can't remember but it was something like 12mm ID. If you can get hold of a selection pack of different sizes it would help.
> 
> edit found this...
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPAZIALE-Espresso-Coffee-Machine-vacuum-valve-o-ring-gasket-original-New-/271919399163


 Thank you thats kind of you will order some the machine looks like it has a gasket and ptf tape so fingers crossed it'll suffice until a replacement arrives ?


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Just drained boiler loads of what i assume is scale deposits so i have replaced with a second batch of citric acid

Group head running clean after 2.5 ltrs of flushing may do the head again in a few weeks

Adding information as i go incase another member comes across the thread and might find useful ?


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

Final report tonight on progress

The boiler has had 2 lots of citric acid with flushing between. In total clean water syphon flush has been 6.5 ltrs and even then more scale was coming out but decided this needs be a marathon not a sprint lol. Ran another 2 ltrs through the water dispenser still cloudy but looks better.

The boiler resealed okay so glad and have an o ring on its way probably next week.

Phew takes some time coffee drinking though today ended without a fix.... tea only

I will do a head back flush tomorrow then decide when i tackle the job again. The good news as best as i can measure is at the start i had 500ml water in the boiler and as close as far as i can tell i get 650ml for the same level of fill

Thank you everyone I feel sure i will be asking advice and tips again soon and hope this thread may help someone else. ?


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## Border_all (Dec 19, 2019)

So Sunday update started at 8.40 on boiler descale 2 hours then empty flush then another hour of descale moved on for 5 litres of flushing and i am chuffed lol 800 ml capacity up from 500 so that's a win.

I have also descaled the head boiler for 2 hours and lots of flushing fellowed by a back flush

Water is now coming clean from all the outlets and sounds better

Same 14g shot moved from 27seconds for 28g espresso new time 20 seconds for same output so will need dialling in again

The o ring that @lake_m linked was perfect so thank you again

Final job ahead is source suitable portafilter sealing ring as no idea how old last one might be. ???

PS coffee tastes better even before i dial in again ✅


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