# Diminishing returns of the Tamper



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So this thought is a thought that I have had a few times, but really only thought about posting the other day whilst chatting to coffeechap. And thats how much (if any) difference spending a shed load of money on a tamper can truly make to your espresso.

I have a £15 tamper, it has a flat bottom and a good weight. Put a £100 tamper in my hand and I have exactly the same thing, I dont understand how it is logically possible to suggest it could make anything but an minute difference to your drink.

Dont get me wrong, I understand the want to have nice things, and that the expensive tampers are a lovely thing to own and to look at, but I just cant see how they are practically different.

I would suggest that if you put the two tampers from opposite ends of the scale in the hands of a WBC and pulled two shots, the results would be virtually indistinguishable.

Tell me im wrong


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

To a certain degree you are right. The important thing is the fit being correct for the basket size. Other than that it can be down to personal preference but the more expensive the more weight as a general rule which can give a better feeling. But at the end of the day it's mostly the joy of something that is beautifully engineered.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

The bottom of a spice jar will do the job if it fits. In fact apparently many Italian cafes turn out top espresso with no tamp at all.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I'd really like a go with one of the Londinium ones, if I liked it though then its a lot to shell out for a tamper.


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

You're not wrong but you'll look so much cooler with your diamond studded tamper


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

hmmmmm, i can honestly say that the torr tampers i have now, based on the fact that they are 58.4mm and therefore perfectly fit my basket, and based on the design and shape give me a much more precise and accurate tamp than say a motta tamp. Also the feel of the tamp, ie weight and materials actually feels nicer to use, are they worth the ridiculous amount of money i spent on them? to me yes, to others probably not, but a tamp is such a personal thing and a thing to behold if your that way inclined.

Also the shape of a tamp will determine how effective it is, for a perfect mound delivered by say a mythos, you really want a convex tamper to push the mound out to the periphery of the basket, although some folks will swear by a flat tamp. it all comes down to preference and mine is a tianium goldfinger torr with african blackwood handle....


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Tell me im wrong


IMO you are totally correct.

A tamper for me must be a perfect fit for the basket. Convex or flat whichever is preferred & a reasonable weight.

That's it. These days I never tamp very hard, 30 lbs push went out the window ages ago for me, just firm enough to lightly compress the grinds.

Fancy decorative handles mean nothing on tampers or on machines for that matter. I'm really uncivilized you know.

I only buy the best I can afford to produce the coffee I like. If I could produce that out of a garden watering can & a 'Spong' meat mincer, so be it I'd be happy to save myself a lot of cash.

The beans, green or roasted, are the things that keep & feed my interest in coffee

I'm afraid in my world 'machines do not rule'


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I agree with the above points about the tamp fitting fitting the basket well. I've got quite big hand and some tampers I've tried feel slight too small (although it could just be down to how I hold them). So I'm tempted to say how it feels in you hand is quite important too.

I've an TORR tamper on order which is due any day soon







. Will let you know how I get on with it when I try it out.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

It reminds me a bit of HDMI cables. In fact I find many parallels with the audiophile world. I honestly believe there is a strong placebo effect at play, much more so than many people (enthusiasts and in the industry) would like to admit.

But I guess it's like buying a Rolex - still just tells the time, but people get pleasure from a quality well made object even if there is no real benefit (not that I like Rolex watches mind).


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

autopilot said:


> It reminds me a bit of HDMI cables. In fact I find many parallels with the audiophile world. I honestly believe there is a strong placebo effect at play, much more so than many people (enthusiasts and in the industry) would like to admit.
> 
> But I guess it's like buying a Rolex - still just tells the time, but people get pleasure from a quality well made object even if there is no real benefit (not that I like Rolex watches mind).


Well I guess no-one here is trying to sell directional cable to pass ac waveforms though


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

autopilot said:


> It reminds me a bit of HDMI cables. In fact I find many parallels with the audiophile world. I honestly believe there is a strong placebo effect at play, much more so than many people (enthusiasts and in the industry) would like to admit.
> 
> But I guess it's like buying a Rolex - still just tells the time, but people get pleasure from a quality well made object even if there is no real benefit (not that I like Rolex watches mind).


This is very true. I remember reading an eye-opening article where a company at a What Hi-Fi convention hooked up top end Monster Cables (admittedly not audiophile stuff) to one speaker and wire coat hangers to the other and 5 self confessed audiophiles couldn't tell the difference in the sound quality.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Im just glad there are no coffee machine shops in town like sevenoakes/ audio t. Id be upgrading all the time. Mrs dreads me going into audio t


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

One thing that is overlooked in the above assumption is the effort required to tamp if you are knocking out hundreds of coffees a day

In the hands of a home barista who has time to focus on each part of the process and wants ultimate control then it doesn't matter what type of Tamper you have

However, spare a thought for the career barista who tamps several hundred coffees per day. Using a heavier tamper the work is done for him or her, and less effort is required for each tamp

We might replicate this at the Coffee Forums day at Bella Barista where we can line up a few tampers of varying weights side-by side and see how each feels with repeated tamping


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I agree with Glenn working everyday making coffees when I got my RB it initially as with any new toy had the hint of excitement however, past that it was a joy to use and for me the bulinga handle is comfortable in my hand and even lifting it off requires zero grip as it rests between my index and forefinger.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Glenn said:


> One thing that is overlooked in the above assumption is the effort required to tamp if you are knocking out hundreds of coffees a day
> 
> In the hands of a home barista who has time to focus on each part of the process and wants ultimate control then it doesn't matter what type of Tamper you have
> 
> ...


just wrap a bit of lead sheet around your regular tamper... job done


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ronsil said:


> IMO you are totally correct.
> 
> A tamper for me must be a perfect fit for the basket. Convex or flat whichever is preferred & a reasonable weight.
> 
> ...


But Ron don't you have an s1 and a versalab!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Sure I do but as I said in my post I cannot produce coffee as I need to & in the way I like it without the capabilities of these Machines. I can't find anything less that would do the job.

A watering can & mincer won't cope with my Wife's coffee mornings etc.


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

In my opinion there is no such thing as a perfect tamp, thats what i tell myself and thats why i will need loads and loads of them, so i have every area covered!

A quality tamp will allow you to have a better fit in the basket, as said previously, which is very important. Weight is not an issue for the home barista as you will get used to the weight and apply more/less pressure as needed as you get used to it. So the rest is due to preference and what suits you and makes you happy.

A tamper is one of those accessories that makes a hobby personal too. All hobbies have them and it is probably one of the few tools in coffee that links you directly to the process. So in my opinion get the best tamper you can afford, one that makes you happy and feels right. It also makes your set up personal to you. Torr for example do small shafts.

At the end of the day its horses for courses, technically you probably dont get much more from a 100 pound tamp to a 50 pound tamp, but if it puts a smile on your face every morning its priceless.


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

It's strange but I didn't think .1mm could make a difference when it came down to tamping but the 58.4mm curved torr base is a snug fit in my VST compared with the 58.3mm trapez torr base I had for a week,my point being even the smallest thing can make a difference in the feel in tamping,be it psychological or not


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

I NEED a torr! preferably the one coffeechap has with the spot on the handle!

Thats another point the craftsmanship on these is amazing. Its like coffee tables. A 100 pound one does what a £500 pound one does, it keeps your cup off the floor. But the 500 pound one looks lush and the other looks crap! haha


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

what you need dude is to phone a brother!


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Anyone prefer a Torr over a Reg Barber or vice versa?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i have both mark and the londinium and my favorite is the two torrs i have


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I will let you know re torr v barber soon.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> i have both mark and the londinium and my favorite is the two torrs i have


When is your new machine due Dave? On a very large pallette no doubt!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

which one??????


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Lol. New lever!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> i have both mark and the londinium and my favorite is the two torrs i have


Yep that londinium tamper look cool....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

lodinium tamp is lovely to use....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

new lever coming end of the month, and an old one hopefully


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

coffeechap said:


> lodinium tamp is lovely to use....


 totally agree with this. A different way of tamping but simple and good feel too


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> lodinium tamp is lovely to use....


And expensive to buy........


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

but so are L1s you cant have an L1 without a Londinium tamp, its the law!!!!!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Is this a case of "form ever follows function" argument? Personally, I applaud anyone who takes something, say, like a tamper and takes the design that bit further whilst retaining the item's basic function. Same goes for Duncan who is producing exquisite wood replacements for the awful plastic bits on our beloved machines.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i totally agree patrick, ithink the little extras that people treat themselves to for their machines make the set ups feel individual


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> but so are L1s you cant have an L1 without a Londinium tamp, its the law!!!!!


The law ? Dave's law? So many pretty things so little money.....


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

if you lived by daves law you would end up with 7 tampers of which you can only really use one at a time, they do look pretty though


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

shiiiiiiiiiiiney


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> if you lived by daves law you would end up with 7 tampers of which you can only really use one at a time, they do look pretty though


Edward ( Dave ) Tamperhands ....


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I like the coffee table analogy. It's better if fits the basket, it's better if it fits in your hand properly.

But if it's something that you look at and appeciate every day then people will pay more for how it looks and feels.

Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am an L1 owner but have not bought an L1 tamper, hence breaking a certain unwritten rule!

What I would say, is that you might be able to tamp with anything, but there is no substitute for the feel of quality, be that tampers shoes or women!


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I am an L1 owner but have not bought an L1 tamper, hence breaking a certain unwritten rule!
> 
> What I would say, is that you might be able to tamp with anything, but there is no substitute for the feel of quality, be that tampers shoes or women!


I have a quality tamper, quality shoes but am yet to get a quality women, god damn that ebay! (hope the wife doesn't read this!) haha


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Spukey said:


> I have a quality tamper, quality shoes but am yet to get a quality women, god damn that ebay! (hope the wife doesn't read this!) haha


Hey Spukey, those sound like the lyrics to ZZ Top's 'sharp dressed man'.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Hey Spukey, those sound like the lyrics to ZZ Top's 'sharp dressed man'.


Excellent......tampers to coffee tables to shoes to ZZ Top. Well that settles that!









Sent from my GT-S5830 using Tapatalk 2


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

I was very happy with my MadebyKnock flat 58mm tamper but no matter how I redistributed grinds in the basket I'd always get a doughnut extraction (worse with lighter roasts). Seeing way better results with Torr 58.4 Plan2Convex, really even extraction and you can taste the difference in the cup. The OP is probably right to say that tampers confirm the law of diminishing returns but that probably only kicks in once you're spending above £50. Getting the right size and curvature of base is really worthwhile.


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