# Niche zero grind setting issue



## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

I refer to the discussion on this thread below as a starting point.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/50958-grind-setting-slip-on-grind-prevention/

I have a similar problem. The grind setting is shifting, underlying, even without me touching anything. This is not about beans ageing etc. - it is within a matter of hours and days, and the change is dramatic, not microscopic.

Just to make sure, after calibration with the provided marking, I have also put pen marks on the metal ring itself so as to rule out that the black plastic ring slipped or turned by mistake while turning. After a few uses, with the same beans and with no further adjustment of the grind setting, I find the shot pulling gradually incorrectly. This can be in either direction (choking or gusher). I made sure to follow DavecUK's instruction on the above thread to adjust grind setting in a certain way (go coarser first then turn back).

When I investigate, I find two scenarios: 1) I may find that the marker (and my pen marking) still matches "calibrate". But now the grinder needs a setting of 12 to grind a bean which originally correctly ground at say, 16. And this 12 is not stable, it changes every few uses. If I totally unscrew the top ring, remove the burrs, then re-fit everything back, now the calibration lines up completely differently from before. 2) Or, I may find that the markers (silver dot on plastic ring and my own pen marker) are still aligned with each other, but no longer align with "calibrate" on the grinder. If I re-calibrate again now, still it doesn't grind correctly at the original setting of 16.

Basically, I cannot see any pattern in how things shift unseen during use and therefore I have no way to compensate. I am wasting significant qty of beans. Could it be that some component is slipping inside against something else? Is there something I can try or investigate? There is no grease on the outer side of the metal ring as far as I can tell.

On another thread, which I can't find now, I saw that Niche offered to collect and repair the grinder which reported a similar problem. I have written twice now to the [email protected](...) email but no one has responded. I am within warranty. Is there anyone on this board who is connected or can offer any suggestion?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@Tata I am very surprised that Niche have not responded as their customer service is legendary! Just to confirm you have sent the email to [email protected] and not .com

@Niche Coffee


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

I am sorry I first created this post under the Grinders | Machines | Accessories section of the forum as I was not fully familiar with the board.

I refer to the discussion on this thread below as a starting point.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/50958-grind-setting-slip-on-grind-prevention/

I have a similar problem. The grind setting is shifting, underlying, even without me touching anything. This is not about beans ageing etc. - it is within a matter of hours and days, and the change is dramatic, not microscopic.

Just to make sure, after calibration with the provided marking, I have also put pen marks on the metal ring itself so as to rule out that the black plastic ring slipped or turned by mistake while turning. After a few uses, with the same beans and with no further adjustment of the grind setting, I find the shot pulling gradually incorrectly. This can be in either direction (choking or gusher). I made sure to follow DavecUK's instruction on the above thread to adjust grind setting in a certain way (go coarser first then turn back).

When I investigate, I find two scenarios: 1) I may find that the marker (and my pen marking) still matches "calibrate". But now the grinder needs a setting of 12 to grind a bean which originally correctly ground at say, 16. And this 12 is not stable, it changes every few uses. If I totally unscrew the top ring, remove the burrs, then re-fit everything back, now the calibration lines up completely differently from before. 2) Or, I may find that the markers (silver dot on plastic ring and my own pen marker) are still aligned with each other, but no longer align with "calibrate" on the grinder. If I re-calibrate again now, still it doesn't grind correctly at the original setting of 16.

Basically, I cannot see any pattern in how things shift unseen during use and therefore I have no way to compensate. I am wasting significant qty of beans. Could it be that some component is slipping inside against something else? Is there something I can try or investigate? There is no grease on the outer side of the metal ring as far as I can tell.

On another thread, which I can't find now, I saw that Niche offered to collect and repair the grinder which reported a similar problem. I have written twice now to the [email protected](...) email but no one has responded. I am within warranty. Is there anyone on this board who is connected or can offer any suggestion?


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

Oh, just to clarify, this "drift" started a few months after I started using the grinder, not from the very beginning.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

Thanks for replying @dfk41. Ah, is that ! after "hello" required. I didn't use that. It was [email protected]


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tata said:


> When I investigate, I find two scenarios: 1) I may find that the marker (and my pen marking) still matches "calibrate". But now the grinder needs a setting of 12 to grind a bean which originally correctly ground at say, 16. And this 12 is not stable, it changes every few uses. If I totally unscrew the top ring, remove the burrs, then re-fit everything back, now the calibration lines up completely differently from before. 2) Or, I may find that the markers (silver dot on plastic ring and my own pen marker) are still aligned with each other, but no longer align with "calibrate" on the grinder. If I re-calibrate again now, still it doesn't grind correctly at the original setting of 16.


 Sorry, just to be clear, you seem to be saying that the actual visible setting is not changing, just the shot characteristics? If this is so & you are not accidentally misaligning the silver ring & back ring, it doesn't look like your setting is drifting.

You don't mention your shot parameters, it may be helpful to state them so we can see what's going on?


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@Tata You have created 3 threads on the same topic. Hope @DavecUK can help you clear two of the 3.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

@MWJB thanks for replying. I will write some details soon. Meanwhile, I started off by mistake posting in two different sections. This is the other.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/60234-niche-zero-grind-setting-issue/?do=embed

Is it possible that the Moderator could combine /merge the two? My apologies that I discovered the Niche forum a tad too late...


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

My apologies. I thought it was two -- I already requested on the Niche page that a moderator merge them as I just came into the board and did not notice the Niche forum at first


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

No need to apologise!

Folks here and NZ CS will help you with your issues.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

Returning to @MWJB question:

Yes, that's right. There is no visible shift in marking or setting anywhere. But I find that the shot timing is going off. After that, of course, I have to make a visible change in the setting myself, in the required direction to try and arrive back at the original shot characteristics. But, sometimes there can be a (not so) visible change as per my scenario 2): that is, if I turn the rings all the way clockwise and double-check calibration, I may find that it no longer matches "calibrate" (this is only sometimes though); and this is not because the black ring has somehow slipped by mistake - I have put marker pen marks on the metal ring itself and even that has shifted from "calibrate".

I am using the Niche alongside a Lelit MaraX. Beans could be something like Coffeebeanshop mocha Guatemala or Coffee Compass Mediterranean mocha etc. I'm using Lelit's 18-21g IMS basket with 20g coffee, trying to get 20:40 in around 30 secs.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tata said:


> But I find that the shot timing is going off.





Tata said:


> 18-21g IMS basket with 20g coffee, trying to get 20:40 in around 30 secs.


 OK, so stick with the 20:40g out (if that's what you need), but don't worry so much about it taking 30s. A little drift in shot time with the same bean is normal, change beans and the drift can be quite large. If what you are aiming for is achievable & you are dialled in, extraction won't be changing anything near as much as shot time, because the grind & ratio are doing the work. It takes time, but time is not doing the brewing.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

Hi, the change is huge. Within two days of achieving good calibration at say, mark 16, I may only be getting usable shots at marking 11 or 12. At 16 it is now a 10 sec gusher.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

I am talking same beans. when I change beans, that's entirely different.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tata said:


> I am talking same beans. when I change beans, that's entirely different.


 There's still no firm evidence of a grinder fault.

Your settings seem rather fine for 20g doses. Is it possible that you are in the finer side of what can work, erring into 'too fine'?

Maybe log each shot parameter so we can see the progression?

Do the 20s+ shots taste good?


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

Oki @MWJB I will keep further notes. It is quite possible that I'm not pulling the best tasting shots from the bean. So thanks for the suggestion to try coarser settings and check the taste. But I'm raising the issue of day to day consistency first of all. Why would it keep drifting at this speed? I have a (now retired) Eureka Mignon gen 1 grinder for example, which doesn't require any such constant adjustment.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

sounds to me that it us your beans. Can you tell us exactly what they are and how old and when roasted please


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Calibration always being exactly the same is unlikely. You need to remember that burrs are moved around by microns. A dot on a Niche scale isn't many. Different parts of the burr may touch when it's calibrated as well.

When I started using mine the settings drifted down fairly quickly and then more slowly over a much longer time period. There are a number of reasons that can happen.

You seem to be over thinking as well. Anytime you take a grinder apart and put it back together you can expect some change. Cleaning even more so. Niche does not need that very often even when changing beans. 4 dots in terms of burr movement isn't much at all. In this area Niche is way better than any other I have used other than a stepped one but cleaning still made a difference to that. It settles after a while. Niche manual mentions cleaning - think in terms of months. Bean changes can also take several shots to settle. There is nothing unusual about this.  Grinders are a pain.

The other point is why do people weigh shots out. Lots do. Simple to allow time to vary. They don't expect it to be exactly 30sec all of the time. Actually some people have noticed an improvement in this area when they switched to Niche.

Grinds prep can also cause variations. It needs to be consistent. What you actually do in that area may explain some variation in output.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Tata said:


> Hi, the change is huge. Within two days of achieving good calibration at say, mark 16, I may only be getting usable shots at marking 11 or 12. At 16 it is now a 10 sec gusher.


 This isn't particularly unusual, especially if the beans are fresh. When were they roasted?



Tata said:


> I made sure to follow DavecUK's instruction on the above thread to adjust grind setting in a certain way (go coarser first then turn back).
> 
> When I investigate, I find two scenarios: 1) I may find that the marker (and my pen marking) still matches "calibrate". But now the grinder needs a setting of 12 to grind a bean which originally correctly ground at say, 16. And this 12 is not stable, it changes every few uses. If I totally unscrew the top ring, remove the burrs, then re-fit everything back, now the calibration lines up completely differently from before. 2) Or, I may find that the markers (silver dot on plastic ring and my own pen marker) are still aligned with each other, but no longer align with "calibrate" on the grinder. If I re-calibrate again now, still it doesn't grind correctly at the original setting of 16.


 You are running the grinder every couple of notches when adjusting finer to clear the burrs? I use a cocktail stick to press the safety switch down while slowly rotating the silver ring to avoid constantly stopping and starting the grinder.

If you have ground coffee you will not be able to turn the ring back to the calibration mark until you've removed the inner burr and cleaned everything out. When you put it back together you will get it back to the calibration mark if you tighten it enough or you'll be a bit out if you don't or if you tighten too much, it doesn't matter at all. Again this is normal.

If grind setting isn't slipping (the black ring isn't moving coarser as it grinds and your dot on the silver ring remains in line with the black ring) then you aren't having the same issue as in the thread you linked to.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

I use a number of beans from time to time, but please note that I am not referring to needing different grind settings for different beans -- I am comparing while running through the same beans. Ok, so I mentioned above Coffeebeanshop mocha Guatemala, Coffee Compass Mediterranean mocha, Redber signature espresso etc. You are legends here - I learnt them from you, so I don't have to tell you about these 😀. All fresh roasted. I target around 15-20days resting in the original pack with CO2 valve. Then when I open a bag, I transfer to a coffeevac jar. Weight out 20g on a scale when I am about to make coffee. For darker roasts such as the Redber, I use 18g, not 20g.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

A new bag can behave as if it's very fresh when you open the bag and dial in and then need a significantly finer grind as time catches up after opening. It seems as if you are saying grind setting is constantly changing though......is that because you keep trying to recalibrate and clean? I.e do you set it to 16 then have to set it to 12 and then decide you're going to take it apart and recalibrate? Sorry it's not very clear what you're doing...

Is the grind setting actually slipping as it was in the thread you linked to or are you just noting a difference in shot time?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Why dont you forget about calibration! It is actually a nonsense if you think about it. I never bother having had a Niche since incept. Experience tells me simply whether to loosen or tighten the grind a small amount as I could not give a fig what number is on the scale! I suggest you adopt the same stance matey and do not worry. You do not have to follow the trends set by some folks.....let your taste buds and how the shot pours dictate if a need to grind is needed


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Tata said:


> I have a (now retired) Eureka Mignon gen 1 grinder for example, which doesn't require any such constant adjustment.


 Not used one but have seen various photo's of what comes out of them. You may have been working straight into the portafilter also with the hopper on.


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

All points taken. And thanks legends for taking the time to throw light.

@Rob1 indeed, my complaint is that it changes constantly, and not always in the direction of requiring finer grind, often in the other direction as well. And when in which direction it will begin to drift is totally unpredictable. Not in any fixed relationship with ageing of the beans. I'm using 500g bags of beans usually and run through each in 1 week. And you're right, in my case the ring itself is not shifting, so different from the problem linked to in my opening post.

@ajohn No, I'm using the NZ grind holder/can to collect the grinds. Not direct to PF.

@dfk41 Thanks and appreciate that mate. In your case, once you decide you have arrived at your preferred grinder setting, does it stay like that the next day? Or do you have to set it afresh everyday after some experimentation?


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## Tata (Jul 10, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> you are saying grind setting is constantly changing though......is that because you keep trying to recalibrate and clean? I.e do you set it to 16 then have to set it to 12 and then decide you're going to take it apart and recalibrate?


 @Rob1 what I'm doing is : let's say I'm liking a setting of 16 for a certain bean. Then I do nothing more. Just keep grinding doses as I need to make coffee (about 5 cups a day for 3 people). Next morning I may notice that the shot comes out too slowly like a trickle and did not complete the weight even in 40 secs. I cut it off at 40 sec and somehow drink the bitter shot. 😄 if the next shot also is like that, then I turn the ring 1 notch coarser to see if the shot will pull within 20-35 secs again. That's all. I'm not cleaning, re-calibrating or doing anything else. I do those latter things only when things have progressed day by day to a point where I can't grind coffee within any reasonable marked range of the grinder any longer. Then I may turn the rings clockwise all the way until burrs touch, just to check where the markers line up relative to the "calibrate" text on the grinder. And lo and behold I often find them aligning up exactly like before ( scenario 1 in my OP ). Yet the grinder is not grinding in the same fineness range as before!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tata said:


> Next morning I may notice that the shot comes out too slowly like a trickle and did not complete the weight even in 40 secs. I cut it off at 40 sec and somehow drink the bitter shot. 😄


 Always hit your target weight. If the extraction is dialled in, then 40s won't over extract at the same weight, might be a shade flatter/less acidity.

If you are getting shots that dribble out, it sounds like you are too fine and/or overdosing the basket.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Tata said:


> No, I'm using the NZ grind holder/can to collect the grinds. Not direct to PF


 That may be part of your problem also grinds that come out. Niche tends to be very fluffy with a little static - more of that initially. That doesn't fit in with what I have seen on photo's of what I have seen come out of a Mignon. Direct into a portafilter on Niche can be messy and not produce an even heap. Tamp and the pressures will be uneven across the puck. It's possible to have this problem with the cup as well. I hope to see a nice level flat surface when I quickly invert to get the grinds down and always tap down fairly firmly before removing the cup to get some compression in the grinds.

Personally I would expect to adjust more than once when I change beans.  Bit of a problem with one bean I use a lot. Very oily. That tends to mean 6 shots before setting settles on another bean and the same going back to it again.

When I started using it something else cropped up. I had gone to a lot of trouble to set the max dose of grinds to get the drink as strong as possible and tasting as it should. It's a mix of grinder setting, fill height and grinds expansion. It's not a case of oh grind finer and that happens. Crazy, a drop of just 1/2g from 14 made an immense difference to taste. Some of the taste was down to the new burr effect but I still use the same dose. Mentioned this on here and one other person noticed the same thing. Other pass. I tend to use lower fills on purpose now but part of that is down to the machine I use.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Tata said:


> @Rob1 what I'm doing is : let's say I'm liking a setting of 16 for a certain bean. Then I do nothing more. Just keep grinding doses as I need to make coffee (about 5 cups a day for 3 people). Next morning I may notice that the shot comes out too slowly like a trickle and did not complete the weight even in 40 secs. I cut it off at 40 sec and somehow drink the bitter shot. 😄 if the next shot also is like that, then I turn the ring 1 notch coarser to see if the shot will pull within 20-35 secs again. That's all. I'm not cleaning, re-calibrating or doing anything else. I do those latter things only when things have progressed day by day to a point where I can't grind coffee within any reasonable marked range of the grinder any longer. Then I may turn the rings clockwise all the way until burrs touch, just to check where the markers line up relative to the "calibrate" text on the grinder. And lo and behold I often find them aligning up exactly like before ( scenario 1 in my OP ). Yet the grinder is not grinding in the same fineness range as before!


 Ok. It's normal to have to adjust finer then coarser then progressively finer again as the beans age. Usually this happens over the course of a week with freshly roasted coffee, maybe with a newly opened bag it happens over a couple of days but it should be settling down at some point. The bottom line is, if the ring isn't moving the grind setting isn't changing (it's impossible). BTW I drink plenty of shots pulled in 40 seconds or more, usually between 35 and 40 seconds but sometimes more.


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

are you sure you puck preparation is consistent? there's nothing very magical about the niche, if you've opened it up for cleaning you've seen all there is to see. if the calibration ring hasn't physically moved and the upper burr carrier isn't binding in the housing (which would be weird), then the burrs are going to be the same distance apart. wildly different extraction times/flow are going to be down to the beans, or, if it's both up and down, puck prep.


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## CoffeeTim (Nov 23, 2020)

dfk41 said:


> Why dont you forget about calibration! It is actually a nonsense if you think about it. I never bother having had a Niche since incept. Experience tells me simply whether to loosen or tighten the grind a small amount as I could not give a fig what number is on the scale! I suggest you adopt the same stance matey and do not worry. You do not have to follow the trends set by some folks.....let your taste buds and how the shot pours dictate if a need to grind is needed


 In contrary, i do care about the calibration. It will allow me to set back to the previous setting for the same bean after removal of burr for cleaning.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@CoffeeTim That is not what I said. Obviously, if you are removing the burrs for cleaning, then it is hardly a bother to calibrate, but, the point I was making was, in general use, if using the same bean, simply take the reference point from the shot you have just pulled as to whether you need to adjust.


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## Nanz (Mar 31, 2021)

I wanted to re-visit this post as I seem to having the same issues. @Tata did you ever solve this?

I'll try and explain my issue:



I calibrate the grinder when I get a fresh bag of beans but rotating the silver ring anti-clockwise till tight. Then turn the black ring till it aligns with the dot.


I have a list of the grind settings for the beans I buy, i turn the silver ring clockwise to the correct grind setting.


I grind my beans, this works fine.


The next day (or day after) I find that the grinder is now grinding much more corse and I need to re-calibrate again.
I know this because the coffee extracts much faster and as I use the same beans, I know that I should be able to get 32g in about 22 - 24s, but I end up getting 32g in about 15s - 17s.


This has only recently started to happen, for the past 5 months it's been absolutely fine.


I've recently cleaned the grinder as well.


I haven't contact Niche yet, but probably will do if I can't work out how to sort this.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nanz said:


> I calibrate the grinder when I get a fresh bag of beans but rotating the silver ring anti-clockwise till tight. Then turn the black ring till it aligns with the dot.


 You don't need to calibrate your grinder for every new bag.

There can be slight variations in calibration point when recalibrating, so you're historical settings may be a little out with that shift.

Go by the flavour balance of the shots, compared to grind setting, rather than shot time.

Personally, I'd average up your historical settings & start there. Even when you buy new batches of the same bean, you can't be sure your last setting will apply.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Nanz said:


> I wanted to re-visit this post as I seem to having the same issues. @Tata did you ever solve this?
> 
> I'll try and explain my issue:
> 
> ...


 I didn't think you were ever meant to recalibrate unless you had taken the grinder apart and thoroughly cleaned the burrs it to remove particles, only then is it safe to recalibrate. Unlike a conventional grinder you can't have the motor running whilst adjusting finer to stop the burrs locking up with coffee particles. There is a video on this on you tube emphasising how important it is to ensure you clean the burrs before recalibrating. You shouldn't have to keep recalibrating either only if you accidentally move the lower black calibration ring .

With regards to the collar slipping I have read somewhere before about people having to tape it at the desired point to avoid it gradually altering coarser but I'm sure there was a solution. James at Niche is excellent at providing support and I'm sure would know the solution if this were the case.


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