# New to forum - mc2 or graef - which is the better buy?



## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

Hi All

My first post, so please go easy on me! I'm after a sub-£150 grinder and have seen these two available (both prices are including VAT and delivery):-

Iberital MC2 £126.60 - seen a lot of good reviews

Graef CM81 £95.00 - can't find too much on this

Would appreciate any comments/advice on whether the MC2 is worth the extra £30. If it makes any difference, my wife and I are regular espresso drinkers so a machine that produces a consistent fine-grind is important.

Many thanks

Greg


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

I have no experience of the Graef, but many on here regard the MC2 as the best starting point. Had one myself. Noisy, not pretty but does the job.

If you are talking £126.60 new, have you checked this incudes VAT and carriage? If so, it's a good price, and you will get a large proportion of this back in 6 months when you upgrade to a Mignon


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi.

What are you pairing it with?

I've heard mixed reviews on the Graef but more negative than positive.

The Ibertial is a popular starter grinder but everyone ends up upgrading eventually, if you put it side by side with a more competent grinder you would taste a noticeable difference.

Would you therefore consider buying second hand, or saving a bit more? The grinder is in many ways more important than the machine for the above reason.

Once you reach 10 or so posts on here you get access to the classifieds forums, where you can get some good deals on second hand gear that has been well loved (including MC2's)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

.Muddy recently got a graef cm800, although not the same model might be worth asking his experience on it .

As others have said check that the mc2 included vat


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

CFo said:


> I have no experience of the Graef, but many on here regard the MC2 as the best starting point. Had one myself. Noisy, not pretty but does the job.
> 
> If you are talking £126.60 new, have you checked this incudes VAT and carriage? If so, it's a good price, and you will get a large proportion of this back in 6 months when you upgrade to a Mignon


Hi Chris

I saw the posts about checking VAT and delivery, but this price is fully inclusive and from a dealer that has some very positive comments on this forum.

http://www.espressounderground.co.uk/iberital2.html

.......£99.00 plus VAT and delivery - £126.60.

From what you say, this is a good deal and indeed, I cannot find it cheaper anywhere else.


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

aaronb said:


> Hi.
> 
> What are you pairing it with?
> 
> ...


Hi aaronb

I'm undecided on a Gaggia Classic or a Rancilio Silvia V3 and am still searching (plus any other machines that are recommended). But I was advised to spend a decent amount on a good grinder, so would definitely consider a well looked after second-hand one. I'll keep my eye on For Sale section and maybe something will come up there.

Cheers


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Big price difference between the classic and silvia, and not much machine difference really.

If you have the cash top buy a silvia new, then i would get a classic and put the extra cash towards a grinder.


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

A Classic and an MC2 is a popular starter set up.

The Silvia is more expensive and, having used one, I didn't think it was worth the extra cash over the Gaggia.

Having said that, there are some differences. The Silvia has a larger boiler and comes with non-pressurised baskets but does have a reputation for being quite particular about the grind of the coffee.

The Gaggia has it's "perfect crema device" which most people dump pretty quickly and replace with a standard basket and people often upgrade the steam wand for a Silvia one. Adding the cost of these to the Gaggia only increases price by £15 or so making the Gaggia still a lot cheaper.


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

Also on the Classic vs Silvia front, read this thread


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## muddy250 (May 21, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> .Muddy recently got a graef cm800, although not the same model might be worth asking his experience on it .
> 
> As others have said check that the mc2 included vat


I did indeed and it's going very nicely. It has plenty of scope to choke my Gaggia Classic and is still producing a nice consistent grind with room to go finer still when the beans begin to dry out. I do get fluffy clumping with fresh beans but it doesn't seem to cause any ill effects.

Still enjoying great coffee with this simple set up.

Nice thing with the steps is that they are fine and marked clearly so everything is repeatable.

I use the double non pressurised basket with about 14g in there, 30 seconds gets me 2oz of beautiful rich espresso using Bailies Tiamo at the moment. Mmmmm.


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## Stevo (Sep 5, 2014)

As a fellow newbie, is it sensible to start with a 'starter' set up (classic and mc2) in order to get your 'eye in' so to speak so that if you do upgrade later you'll appreciate / taste the difference?

As as a airily regular wine drinker if I'd started with £20 bottles of wine and not the £4-6 range I would not appreciate the extra qualities a £20 bottle has.

Is it fair to say the same principle can be applied to coffee or should you save up more and jump straight into the classic + mignon for example?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes and no, you would appreciate it more when you move onto a better setup but it is also a bit harder to make decent repeatable shots easily on that setup.

You could also consider an aeropress and a porlex, much cheaper and makes very good coffee if you buy freshly roasted beans.


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

There's always lots of talk about which "starter" grinder people should go for but I think that budget is the main consideration - buy the best grinder you can afford.

An MC2 is a good starting point and could last you a long time and it's pretty cheap, especially second hand, but if you can afford a better grinder then it's a good place to invest your money.


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## Stevo (Sep 5, 2014)

Ok thanks guys - looking at a second hand mignon for around £200. Is that a sensible choice/ realistic price point?


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## Stevo (Sep 5, 2014)

All of a sudden the cost of going up from what I was expecting but happy to pay for quality products!


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

Hard to say about prices without knowing more about condition etc.

Seems a bit steep to me though... I bought my SJ for less than £200


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

Having said it seems pricey, the last one to sell here went for £200...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18352


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## Stevo (Sep 5, 2014)

Thanks earwax,

where did you buy the SJ? On here or on eBay etc?

Thanks.


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

The SJ was a lucky eBay find. Less than a year old and in mint condition and the auction ended at £175.

I don't think the seller really knew what they were selling or how to use it properly.


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## Stevo (Sep 5, 2014)

Ok, I'd better pay a little more attention to eBay and perhaps be a little more patient.

Thanks for the assistance / knowledge, it really is appreciated.


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## EarwaxUK (Jan 19, 2014)

Keep an eye on the for sale section of the forum, there's often things cropping up there


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

I have a Graef CM80, which appears to be just the same as the CM81 but the new model has cable rewind.

My first burr grinder, I must say I have no regrets at buying it. Once I discovered the spacers for repositioning the burrs I could get a fine enough grind for espresso. Kept me going for the first couple of years no probs. If you have a source of this one at £95 it seems like a steal!

I've more recently picked up an Anfim Super Best on |Ebay, and am engaged in trying to convert it to on-demand as I only grind one cupsworth at once. Meanwhile the Graef sits next to it (much to my wife's annoyance!) for cafetiere grind duties.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

£200 is going rate for a second hand Mignon in decent nick.


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## muddy250 (May 21, 2014)

hubrad said:


> I have a Graef CM80, which appears to be just the same as the CM81 but the new model has cable rewind.
> 
> My first burr grinder, I must say I have no regrets at buying it. Once I discovered the spacers for repositioning the burrs I could get a fine enough grind for espresso. Kept me going for the first couple of years no probs. If you have a source of this one at £95 it seems like a steal!
> 
> I've more recently picked up an Anfim Super Best on |Ebay, and am engaged in trying to convert it to on-demand as I only grind one cupsworth at once. Meanwhile the Graef sits next to it (much to my wife's annoyance!) for cafetiere grind duties.


The new Graef has an internally adjustable burr carrier, very simple idea that works well.

Easy to choke my Gaggia.


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

muddy250 said:


> The new Graef has an internally adjustable burr carrier, very simple idea that works well.
> 
> Easy to choke my Gaggia.


Ah, sounds like a seriously good upgrade! My CM80 involves removing the lower burr then putting washers on the shaft to reposition. I used one or two of the official washers plus one of my own which allowed an otherwise unobtainable adjustment.


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## muddy250 (May 21, 2014)

It's very good indeed.









Just take out the two screws, turn the inner and replace. Done.


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