# Gaggia Classic vs Rocket Giotto Showdown



## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

So my new Rocket Giotto arrived today and as promised I have done an initial comparison between it and my old classic. The idea was to see how much of a better shot i can get from my new set up and how this equates to the price difference. I hope this helps those other members who like me really wanted to upgrade but weren't sure how much better a shot they will get for all that extra money.

In the blue corner we have my trusty old Gaggia Classic:









And in the red corner we have the new Rocket Giotto Evo V2:









*So lets start with the Beans:*

Has Bean Nicaragua Finca La Escondida Washed Catuai

Roasted on the 15th November so had a few days to degas and perfect for this test

*The Grinder:*

I used my old Baratza Encore which has been shimmed to get fine enough for Espresso. However due to the large difference in the steps i will be pairing my new machine with a Eureka Mignon (pictured above)

I decided to test with the old grinder so that the only variable in the equation would be the machine used

*The basket:*

I used a VST 17g basket, the same one for both extractions to keep everything the same and avoid any variance between the baskets

For this test I will be measuring the weight of the beans used for the dose and the weight of the liquid out (yield) and the time:

Dose>Yield in x Seconds

*Gaggia Classic Round 1*

As i already had my grinder dialled in for my classic i got a good shot first time out:

17g > 28g in 25 seconds

Tasted a little bitter and burnt, got some fruit flavours and caramel but it was more like burnt caramel. Frustrating as i could taste some great flavours but they are muted by the bitter/burnt notes

*Giotto Round 1*

Used exactly the same grind settings as above:

17g > 30g in 17 seconds

Obviusly way too fast but still tasted it. Very slightly bitter but no where near as much as the Classic. Got fruit and caramel flavours and no burnt taste, also had a nice mouthfeel.

*Giotto Round 2*

Moved the grind setting one notch finer:

17g > 25g in 30 seconds

WOW! This shot tasted amazing, no bitter/burnt flavours at all. I got raspberry fruit flavours and some caramel and also some acidity but this was almost lime like.

After tasting this shot i looked up the tasting notes for this bean and i got "super clean, very zesty and zingy, with hints of raspberries and limes, but also a lovely body of caramel" So for once i was able to taste all of the flavours in the cup, as often i don't taste even half of what the tasting notes are!

*Initial Conclusions:*

From my first round of tests I am really blown away. The difference in flavours is dramatic. On the classic i would get sour/bitter notes that were a detriment to the flavour. On the Giotto these were transformed into a light acidity that actually complemented the overall flavours. The shots with the Giotto had a wonderfully rich mouthfeel and i could really taste the different flavour descriptors. In contrast the flavours on the classic were much muddier and muted.

If i could describe the difference between the 2 machines in a one sentence analogy it would be this:

"The classic is like listening to music underwater compared to the Giotto"

*Milk Test*

By this point i was pretty caffeined up so decided to finish up with a flat white. I used a Motta 50cl jug and the steam was more than adequate as i had managed some pretty decent (for my first attempt on a new machine) micro foam. And it was fast, like 20 seconds fast! Definitely needed to adjust my technique compared to the classic but was aware of this already. Managed some crappy latte art (but that's a whole other thread!







). The taste was amazing, it was sweet and creamy and delicious. Probably the best flat white i have had in a long time!

Now at this point I cannot handle any more coffee so have decided to leave it for the night. Initial points to mention are that i am totally happy with my new machine and for me it was totally worth upgrading. I will post more comments over next week or so as i get used to the machine!


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Great write up and an amazing setup, this is now wetting my appetite even more for an upgrade from my Gaggia Classic.

I do have a Fracino Classic but needs plumbing and a service as bought second hand.

Was going to wait but after reading this and the difference a decent machine gives over the Gaggia, going to see if Santa can service and plumb my machine.

Well done on a cracking write up.


----------



## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

Thank you big dan for taking the time to post this. I'm at the stage you describe, happy to upgrade but wondering how much of an improvement I can expect for the outlay. The shots I'm producing on the Classic have improved beyond measure after doing the OPV mod and getting an 18g VST basket and bottomless portafilter, but in some ways that is making me more keen to upgrade because I'm getting hints of what's possible with a better machine!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Jayne it is calling you.....


----------



## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Great upgrade, looks like the Giotto has landed a knock out punch.


----------



## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Jayne it is calling you.....


....and I'm listening....but there's still nowhere to put it!


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

News headline shocker.... "Rocket IS better than Classic"

OK... it's not a shocker









You forgot to say - "Just look at it!" Is sexy the best description? I think so.

Welcome to the club Dan.

Jayne - it's not that much bigger than a classic, I'm sure you could fit one in.


----------



## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks Daren! It doesn't take up too much room! I have my whole set up on a kitchen trolley that is 60cmx50cm so not too bad!


----------



## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

Daren said:


> it's not that much bigger than a classic, I'm sure you could fit one in.


Coffeechap is teasing me about an L1 and I've been round the houses trying to fit one of those in our current kitchen! I'm trying to be patient and learn as much as I can on the Classic, which I'm sure will stand me in good stead. But it's really useful to hear someone's first impressions upgrading from a Classic to any better machine.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Just when I had almost convinced myself to wait to upgrade!


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Sometime later this week ,maybe over the weekend I will also be posting a similar review of the Classic compared to the Sage DB. I guess the outcome will be more or less a forgone conclusion.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Heligan said:


> Coffeechap is teasing me about an L1 and I've been round the houses trying to fit one of those in our current kitchen! I'm trying to be patient and learn as much as I can on the Classic, which I'm sure will stand me in good stead. But it's really useful to hear someone's first impressions upgrading from a Classic to any better machine.


Ah cookers and fridges they Are vastly over rated compared to coffee machines . Just rid of one ....


----------



## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Thought i would give a quick update to all you guys and gals!

So last weekend i hosted a coffee and cake party. Had about a dozen friends over for the afternoon for a catch up and some coffee. So i spent about 3 hours at my machine banging out flat whites, machiatos, americanos and even a few baby-cinos! The machine is a beast and just kept on going, no problems steaming and making drinks shot after shot. Only had to refill the water tank a couple of times but that was easy!

I have also managed to make some pretty bad shots on this machine too so its not all sunshine and roses! What i would say is occasionally i am making a shot that is a little bitter. However because the temperature is very stable it is still drinkable whereas on the classic i would find shots bitter and sour as the temperature (i am guessing here) was not as stable during the shot.

However one thing that has been amazing is Has Bean. When i first moved to grinding my own coffee i bought Has Bean whole beans but to be honest i didn't like a lot of the ones i tried. Some were good but a lot were not! Now this is not because of the beans but i realise it was my technique and equipment. I know has bean roast on the lighter side and now that i have a good machine i can say i definitely prefer a lighter roast!

I am kind of with Gary **** on this one as i know he has talked about a lot of coffees tasting "roasty". With the lighter blends i have got delicious mouthfeel combined with some wonderful flavours.

On the flip side some of the darker roasts have been great to use in milk, but as a straight up espresso i find them ok but a little harsh, with that slightly drying effect at the back of the mouth that coffee can give you.

Latte Art update - still totally crap! ha ha, but milk texture is getting better, its just so darned quick!!

Will try some experiments this weekend and feedback here. Am going to try a variety of cooling flushes to see if this effects flavour and also play around with dosing and yield a little.

Currently i am using 17g and looking to get around 25g out, although sometimes this can be a little too strong. What ratios are you all using? Looking forward to playing around with this a little!


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

big dan said:


> Currently i am using 17g and looking to get around 25g out, although sometimes this can be a little too strong. What ratios are you all using? Looking forward to playing around with this a little!


Sounds like your money was well spent & you will start to enjoy exploring coffee even more than before . Its kind of a relief to realise coffee can be so much better when extracted properly. Stuff you thought was under roasted before can end up being a bit 'roasty' !

Espresso ratios are very much coffee dependant. I tend to shoot 20g into 30g and if the acidity is too high and sweetness too low then I push to >32-34g. Dont be scared of >35 second shots. The HB brazils are coming and these are some of the most delicious forgiving chocolately coffees.

You should try a 20g VST - they are amazing!


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I've got to agree with Gary on the 20g VST basket, our personal tastes in coffee couldn't be more different but the results I have had with this basket have been great, I certainly found that using the 20g basket downdosed to 19g as er the Coffee Fix suggestions for this months DSOL beans worked better in both my Classic and the Sage DB than updosing an 18g VST to 19g.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yep.

19 in a 20 will be a better extraction than 19 in an 18 (higher % for a given yield)


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

You see I do listen to you at times Gary


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I might not always be right, but, i'm never wrong


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> I might not always be right, but, i'm never wrong


There's a right way , a wrong way and my way









And there's two things I know about coffee - nowt and fuck all ....


----------



## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks guys will definitely look at the 20g VST basket, I have a 17g one at the moment


----------

