# The Ten Best Espresso Machines...



## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

...or at least the Independent's take on them:

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/the-10-best-espresso-machines-8579244.html

Posted without comment, other than to say that you should never believe what's in the papers.

But on the other hand, there are some gorgeous ones here:

http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2010/03/gorgeous-espresso-machines.html

Enjoy!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ha ha at least a rocket made it in


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

From the ridiculous to the truly sublime. Those Elektra machines are stonking.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Nice to know I have a couple of them


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'll be selling my cherub in the morning... I clearly made a serious mistake buying it. Morphy Richards is definitely the way forward. I am also sell my current drive and purchase a Trabant or a Lada.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

One reason why i do not read The Independent


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Journalists, of which some I know and have told me, spend about 3 hours researching 'filler' articles such a that, and often do no more than a quick google and look at popular models on Amazon. It then gets quickly jazzed up by a page designer. And if you know anything about the publishing industry these days, you also know they are usually done by an unpaid interns. Its a shame, but that's how it is these days.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

autopilot said:


> Journalists, of which some I know and have told me, spend about 3 hours researching 'filler' articles such as that.....


The dear old Indie is losing readership hand over fist. No wonder it goes for lazy copy like this. If it wasn't being bailed out by a Russian oligarch, it would be ....yesterday's news?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

To be honest, what do we really expect? A page full of Faema Legends, Elektras & KvW Idrocompressors? Even with a properly researched article the onus will be more aimed at a spread, up from the kitchen appliance/mass market end...the kinds of things that people actually buy in large quantities. A bunch of machines with a starting price of £700-800, plus grinder, doesn't make espresso or specialty coffee appear accessible to the man in the street.

Who wants to hear that making a cup of coffee is going to cost them around...,"Think of a number, treble it, add a nought, no make it two...stick your head in the sink - when you can breathe through your ears, you might...and I say, just might, have the kind of dedication we're looking for!" Sounds like a great recruitment plan for Costa & Starbucks! ;-)

It seems more aimed at people who drink coffee, rather than those who have aspirations of being a barista. Those machines (apart from the Rocket) are the "bait" for the old "bait & switch", they get people interested...then once their interest is piqued they may well end up here?

Even on Top Gear it's not all Bugatti's & Maseratis. Hands up who has a Bic biro in the house or office...or am I the only one who doesn't buy Mont Blanc pens in catering packs of 20?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The absurdity of it is not in the machines themselves, but proclaiming that they are 'the best' its like going to Tesco and looking at their 10 best selling wines and then saying that they are the 10 best wines you can buy.

It is, unfortunately, indicative of the Independants slide toward ever more shoddy journalism and sensational headlines that look good on the twitter and facebook feeds of the web.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

MWJB said:


> To be honest, what do we really expect? A page full of Faema Legends, Elektras & KvW Idrocompressors? Even with a properly researched article the onus will be more aimed at a spread, up from the kitchen appliance/mass market end...the kinds of things that people actually buy in large quantities. A bunch of machines with a starting price of £700-800, plus grinder, doesn't make espresso or specialty coffee appear accessible to the man in the street.
> 
> Who wants to hear that making a cup of coffee is going to cost them around...,"Think of a number, treble it, add a nought, no make it two...stick your head in the sink - when you can breathe through your ears, you might...and I say, just might, have the kind of dedication we're looking for!" Sounds like a great recruitment plan for Costa & Starbucks! ;-)
> 
> ...


I have no intention of becoming a Barista, not a job I would enjoy, I just want to make great coffee. That's the great thing about coffee - gives me a good kick start to a hard shift, then relaxes me at the end of it (and boy did I need that after this weekend).

Anyway, the article is just a money maker for the paper. I checked and they are affiliate links, so most of the 'research' time was figuring out which machines would make them the most money. The Internet is littered with crap like this, it's a shame mainstream papers do it but then they are just profit making organisations like the rest.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> The absurdity of it is not in the machines themselves, but proclaiming that they are the 'best in the world' its like going to Tesco and looking at their best selling wines and then saying that they are the best in the world.
> 
> 
> > It doesn't actually say that, it makes repeated references to simplicity & ease of use, pods etc., concedes the Rocket is for those who consider espresso a serious business. Some of those Tesco stocked wines are pretty damned good for the price point.
> ...


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

> It doesn't actually say that, it makes repeated references to simplicity & ease of use, pods etc., concedes the Rocket is for those who consider espresso a serious business. Some of those Tesco stocked wines are pretty damned good for the price point.
> 
> The more you research any subject or pursuit, the more you find you go off the beaten track & that certain foods, items etc., narrow down in choice & are less & less likely to be found on the average shopping park/supermarket/high street, we find ourselves shopping at the same few, oft mentioned retailers &/or getting hands on involved. When we come to discuss these things with people who may have a passing interest, or are curious noobs, we may sound like we speak another language & have little in the way of meaningful advice, or conversation.
> 
> ...


True, but a moot point and you are indirectly giving the article too much credit. This is not an article aimed at the 'man on the street', its just a collection of affiliate links - if you click one and then buy it, the article owners take a percentage of the sale. If one product/retailer gives them 2% and another pays 1%, the 2% one makes the list. Simple.

[/QUOTE]


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

autopilot said:


> True, but a moot point and you are indirectly giving the article too much credit. This is not an article aimed at the 'man on the street', its just a collection of affiliate links - if you click one and then buy it, the article owners take a percentage of the sale. If one product/retailer gives them 2% and another pays 1%, the 2% one makes the list. Simple.


OK, fair point, but what daily/Sunday supplement "10 best" article do you think would really speak to members in this forum & come accross as credible? What are your 10 best espresso machines? 10 best machines with day-to-day, hands on experience...without resorting to testimonials from others? And which one of those 10 is unanimously considered "best in the world"...(rhetorical, but you get my drift).

Yes, these articles make me roll my eyes and smirk slightly...but if I really want to explore these things I come here & to links & recommendations of people with credible testimony & debate. It's what forums like this are for.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm not sure why best in the world was in my head, I edited my post to reflect the article.

I think it comes down to how you define 'best', you can take either the most popular or the choices of those with a lot of knowledge on the matter. Generally you read a paper as you are seeking the opinion of someone who has a superior knowledge.

As has been said however, this is just a jumped up banner ad.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> As has been said however, this is just a jumped up banner ad.


Indeed, welcome to the internet! Now if you'll excuse me I need to go & rent a coffee machine from only £6 week...;-)

Seriously though, if this is the place with the knowledge (I have no doubts on that front), what would be 10 suggestions, geared towards the public, a spread from sub £200, including 3 machines that don't require a stand alone ginder (for the technically challenged who want to press a button, maybe 2) and have a coffee that beats the average product from the big chains...?

Don't ask me...I haven't even touched 10 espresso machines...


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Indeed, welcome to the internet! Now if you'll excuse me I need to go & rent a coffee machine from only £6 week...;-)
> 
> Seriously though, if this is the place with the knowledge (I have no doubts on that front), what would be 10 suggestions, geared towards the public, a spread from sub £200, including 3 machines that don't require a stand alone ginder (for the technically challenged who want to press a button, maybe 2) and have a coffee that beats the average product from the big chains...?
> 
> Don't ask me...I haven't even touched 10 espresso machines...


Great idea, why not start a new thread. I guess the Gaggia Classic would need to be on there (its configured for pods, that reminds me I still need to sort the pressure out...).


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Well, that's generated a lot more serious discussion than I thought it would.

I might be cynical, but other than sandwich toasters, I think that espresso machines are probably the most buy-on-a-whim-use-it-for-a-fortnight-then-forget-it-forever of all kitchen appliances. And I reckon most are sold on appearance/price rather than anything else.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Indeed, I think people get worn down by cleaning regimes and the amount of user input. But largely the kinds of machines discussed in the article/ad/whatever (whether recogniseable as "espresso machines" to you & me) seem largely aimed at those who don't have the inclination for such a routine. I'm fascinated by the process of making coffee...but I'll readily admit there are times when, having just put a fair amount of effort into underextracting yet another coffee, that a clean, push button, acceptable quality and repeatable result is very tempting.

Nespresso seems to have quite a following and I have spoken to users who use them day in, day out & regard themselves as "coffee snobs". They can even make an oz of coffee, with crema, from 7g of grinds...ticks most boxes of people's idea of espresso. Likewise Lavazza & Illy's capsule systems. My mum has a pathological aversion to coffee grounds all over her kitchen - despite my attempts to make her comfortable with the idea...OK, OK, so I missed the bin with the Aeropress puck...we've all done it? ;-) - but loves coffee, so should we say to her, that she should stick to tea?

We choose to explore, grind, tamp, time, weigh, sniff & slurp...but we are also to a degree riding on the popularity of "everyday" coffee. We kind of need each other, perhaps we even need them more than they need us?

I'd go as far as to say, as well as the Rocket, the Francis Francis actually deserves to be on that list, perhaps even the Favola? Simply for giving people what they want (rather than our impression of what they ought to have) at a reasonable price & commitment level.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

MWJB said:


> They can even make an oz of coffee, with crema, from 7g of grinds...


Nearer 5 grams last time I measured. Really acceptable coffee but how so little coffee produces an acceptable result I have never discovered.

Have always suspected that there is some sort of addictive in there but suppose they cannot do that without mentioning the fact


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Have to admit Nespresso was better than expected. They had one in the conference suite at work so it seemed rude not to. Brewed a fake-looking espresso and screwed up my face ready for the overwhelming bitterness that usually accompanies convenience machine coffee, but it never arrived. Almost all business/private jets and airliners are now fitted with them too, though admittedly a lot of that will be down to pure convenience. But if Nespresso is considered good enough by the mega-rich, it's difficult to say they aren't good enough for everyday folk who don't want to spend the daft amounts we do on a hot beverage


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

painty said:


> But if Nespresso is considered good enough by the mega-rich, it's difficult to say they aren't good enough for everyday folk who don't want to spend the daft amounts we do on a hot beverage


Money equals taste? - not sure about that one.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

^ It's a complicated question for sure, and perhaps moreso with respect to coffee than to say gourmet food in general. But if someone is used to fine dining, it's reasonable to assume that their expectations in most areas will be raised, and the likelihood that they'll have been exposed to good coffee will also be higher than for the less wealthy. They generally aren't people who will put up with something they aren't happy with, though.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

vintagecigarman said:


> I might be cynical, but other than sandwich toasters, I think that espresso machines are probably the most buy-on-a-whim-use-it-for-a-fortnight-then-forget-it-forever of all kitchen appliances. And I reckon most are sold on appearance/price rather than anything else.


Spot on! As a nation, instant coffee rules unlike a lot of our European neighbours who have been brought up on fresh coffee. Most in the UK, IMO, prize convenience over taste but want to think their drink choice is sophisticated - manufacturers are acutely aware of this. Have you noticed how they promote their instant coffee with aspirational and lifestyle adverts - very little about the taste merits of the product. Says it all.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What is fact is that we on the forum are totally in the minority when it comes to fascination with coffee and the "perfect shot". I introduced a grimac 44mm pod machine at work, purely so I cold get a palatable coffee during the day, everyone at work thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, the practicality of it and the least intrusive mess, really kept the boss happy too. However the only person not satisfied with the coffee was me.

Generally people buy machine on looks, as it invariably has to pass the significant other test, therefore the prettiest machines like the Francis Francis v2 ( ground and pod) is a very attractive proposition for the home, as is the la pavoni europiccola because it is beautiful. I would love to see how the beautiful functional machines fair against an hx box, but from our perspective we probably already know the answer.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

painty said:


> ^ It's a complicated question for sure, and perhaps moreso with respect to coffee than to say gourmet food in general. But if someone is used to fine dining, it's reasonable to assume that their expectations in most areas will be raised, and the likelihood that they'll have been exposed to good coffee will also be higher than for the less wealthy. They generally aren't people who will put up with something they aren't happy with, though.


I don't necessarily think restaurant coffee is, or should be, a realistic barometer of "quality coffee", but if it's true that the Fat Duck serves Nespresso, then I think that somewhat supports Painty's view.

So far then...in no particular order:

Nespresso

Francis Francis X range

Gaggia Classic

Rocket?

...would all appear to be contenders in their respective classes? I'd perhaps even add the Mypressi Twist for a portable option?

Leaving 5 or 6 suggestions for more "serious" machines...though a super auto should probably feature...?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Unfortunately if the criteria was under 200 new the above list just got whittled down to two


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Unfortunately if the criteria was under 200 new the above list just got whittled down to two


I think the sub-£200 range should be represented, not make up the whole field. You can get the Classic under £200 & have the option to use pods/preground...whilst saving for the grinder of course! ;-) If you don't need steam then the FF Y1 could replace the X range?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I thought this was only about sub 200


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

MWJB said:


> I don't necessarily think restaurant coffee is, or should be, a realistic barometer of "quality coffee", *but if it's true that the Fat Duck serves Nespresso*, then I think that somewhat supports Painty's view.


A chemex hand-poured at the end of a meal is the perfect end to Michelin starred brilliance at Onyx in Budapest - There is no excuse for the fat Duck at nearly double the price for the tasting menu


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> I thought this was only about sub 200


I'm not sure where that came from...not me, I wrote: "a spread from sub £200,"


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> What is fact is that we on the forum are totally in the minority when it comes to fascination with coffee and the "perfect shot". I introduced a grimac 44mm pod machine at work, purely so I cold get a palatable coffee during the day, everyone at work thought it was the best thing since sliced bread, the practicality of it and the least intrusive mess, really kept the boss happy too. However the only person not satisfied with the coffee was me.


I have to say a Grimac was the only pod machine I've used in an office that I've ever thought was decent. Much better than Nespresso and better than Lavazza and Delta. Good choice. I thought it way better than the Jura BTC that we had before. It's still not up there with a proper espresso but then what is in that context. You're hardly going to put a proper machine in an office.


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## friz (Oct 30, 2013)

so not many fans of Nespresso machines then?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

friz said:


> so not many fans of Nespresso machines then?


Why have you just resurrected 5 threads all with mentions of nespresso?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

friz said:


> so not many fans of Nespresso machines then?


Spam spam spam . Glenn need blocking


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Definitely the Heston Blumentahl dual boiler ! or maybe not!


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

These types of articles are very common at this time of year.

A true aficionado will always sniff out what they need and those articles are not meant for the likes of us.

David


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## CoffeeDiva (May 9, 2013)

Is this new member just here to promote nespresso? All their post relate it so far . . . .


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Looks like we need to start recommending the DeLonghi Icona rather than the Gaggia Classic as entry level machine.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Haha nothing like proclaiming ignorance to the masses. Some 'good' machines but the best is silly. I would argue my machine is better than the rocket. Others will disagree. No speedster on there must be rubbish then


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## liting (May 16, 2018)

I'm sorry that I resurrect the old topic, but it's just that I myself once encountered this issue, and spent a lot of time to find really useful information,

I am currently on my second Delonghi Magnifica https://thehomedweller.com/best-home-espresso-machines-under-300/ the first one I bought used in China(it had been lightly used for about a year by the previous owners) for around $700 (imported machines were extremely expensive there) and used for 3-6 cups of coffee almost daily from 2009-2016. We left it in China because it runs on 220v. The current one is a refurbished unit I got off Craigslist for $325 .I had some issues with error messages about a month in, but took to Seattle Coffee Gear and the tech told me it was because I had been using beans that had too much oil, which gunks up the insides. He helped me clean it out and reset it, and I switched to Lavazza beans (these machines do best with Italian roast-- I find Lavazza Crema Suprema beans to be dark enough for my tastes) and it has been working fabulously since. There are a lot of useful videos on this topic on Youtube, I will leave here one of them, as many often have similar questions. Good Luck.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Good luck with what?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

all the machines later underwent further testing based on the taste in the cup


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Jony said:


> Good luck with what?


Lavazza beans?


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