# Ek43 Exploring new brewed ratios ....



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Something occurred to me today. Humour me.....

Conventional espresso 1.6 ratio say 20g->32g yield

Conventional filter 60g per litre 1000g say 30g->500g used

EK espresso 2.0-2.5 ratio say 20g->40-50g

EK filter .................erm.

Shouldn't we look to revisit grams per litre now.

Think its time to look to 50g per litre chemex and see how much sweetness and clarity we can push for









edit moved from ek boffin thread


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Think its time to look to 50g per litre chemex and see how much sweetness and clarity we can push for


Makes perfect sense...*IF* you have a grinder & brewer with a geometry that will let you get to 23/24%EY (I don't)...may be tricky with a big dose in a Chemex? I have had a few permanent filter pourover brews that were surprisingly tasty beyond 22%, including a 23.7% Kone brew...but these may be more of an acquired taste compared to 18.5-21% brews.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> I have had a few permanent filter pourover brews that were surprisingly tasty beyond 22%, including a 23.7% Kone brew...but these may be more of an acquired taste compared to 18.5-21% brews.


taunt me why dont you with your kone skills.

Im drinking a 23.5 % v60 at moment ...bit bitter...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> taunt me why dont you with your kone skills.
> 
> Im drinking a 23.5 % v60 at moment ...bit bitter...


It was just the 1, note I said "a" 

Don't look at the bed when you have finished, that's the secret to happy Kone brewing.

I've never really got much past 21% with a good tasting paper filtered pourover, and those were at small doses.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> It was just the 1, note I said "a"
> 
> Don't look at the bed when you have finished, that's the secret to happy Kone brewing.
> 
> I've never really got much past 21% with a good tasting paper filtered pourover, and those were at small doses.


Dont look at eh bed... or taste the cup , or put in a refract....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Something occurred to me today. Humour me.....
> 
> Conventional espresso 1.6 ratio say 20g->32g yield
> 
> ...


ok so your just premise is to start for a target of 21 ey?

keep pushing the tds to increase EY and keep brew ratio the same?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> ok so your just premise is to start for a target of 21 ey?
> 
> keep pushing the tds to increase EY and keep brew ratio the same?


I have no premise , just think I've opened pandoras box on EK pour over .......


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> I have no premise , just think I've opened pandoras box on EK pour over .......


More variables... This is going to hurt my head, I can tell...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Someone in a white coat work it out then just tell me what to do.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> ok so your just premise is to start for a target of 21 ey?
> 
> keep pushing the tds to increase EY and keep brew ratio the same?


Keeping brew ratio the same would probably make for a very pungent cup (well over 1.40%TDS)...if you were achieving a high EY, pulling the brew ratio down may make the cup less challenging, e.g. 52g/l (19.23:1) would be a pourover equivalent of Perger's coffee shot...Gary's suggested 50g/l (20:1) ratio would pull the TDS down a shade more, to more typical Chemex friendly TDS...if you can keep the extraction even enough & if the paper filter will allow it to still taste good.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

So attempt 1. ''Grind finer, extract more, from less''

Loayza. 3fe dial 6.5 (!)

25g/500g. Bloom-then-all-in-one technique. 80% roastery 20% clear view

Bloom with 60g, stir with mini whisk for 5 seconds, leave to 30 sec mark, water all in by 1min 50. Final drips 5min 6 seconds (!) This brew choked at the end and it took nearly 1 min for the final 50ml to come through. Based on watching how the brew behaved alone - If I were to repeat this I would try a grind of 7 or 7.5, the coffee is fairly stale by my standards; a roast fresh coffee would work with 6.5 or even 6. ...... BUT

A revelation!!!! I think the TDS is still a shade to much, too much body at 50g per litre? madness

Clean , sweet, clarity and separation of flavours, glugable . Easily the best chemex I have made with this already amazing coffee.

On to a winner here chaps! On reflection I might not touch the grind but drop the dose to 24g


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> So attempt 1. ''Grind finer, extract more, from less''
> 
> Loayza. 3fe dial 6.5 (!)
> 
> ...


how long is the 60 g taking to go n ? 5 seconds say ?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> I have no premise , just think I've opened pandoras box on EK pour over .......


Errrrrr Didn't lots of evil things come out of Pandora's box?

Plus hope obviously ;-)


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> So attempt 1. ''Grind finer, extract more, from less''
> 
> Loayza. 3fe dial 6.5 (!) ) ( equates to 5.5 callum dial & 10 on stock original dial )
> 
> ...


Look forward to trying this shortly!

Just a note that the conversion to stock dial in the post isn't right, should be around 3.8?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Final drips 5min 6 seconds (!) This brew choked at the end and it took nearly 1 min for the final 50ml to come through. Based on watching how the brew behaved alone - If I were to repeat this I would try a grind of 7 or 7.5, the coffee is fairly stale by my standards; a roast fresh coffee would work with 6.5 or even 6. ...... BUT


Have you tried a V60 paper, tighter weave, less prone to clogging?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> So attempt 1. ''Grind finer, extract more, from less''
> 
> Loayza. 3fe dial 6.5 (!)
> 
> ...


Ok, tried this recipe (albeit with the 1st edition coffee burrs). It's certainly clean, I would say that it's both slightly sweeter and bitter at the same time. It lacks the creamy body that I was getting previously, although the coffee is getting on a bit and I've not chemex'd it for a while. I stirred with a spoon and the coffee bed wasn't very even when it emptied after 4 mins pretty much on the nose. In the bed it looked like a wormhole so it made me wonder if we've switched from pour over to immersion with a draw down (via said wormhole). Really enjoyed the sweetness just need to work on the body which will hopefully come from adding a little bit more calcium to the water.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> In the bed it looked like a wormhole so it made me wonder if we've switched from pour over to immersion with a draw down (via said wormhole).


The wormhole is perhaps a result of concentrating the pour in the middle of the bed?

It's still a pourover, there may be aspects of immersion within it, but it's not an immersion brew (all water & coffee held together & not flowing through the bed), lots of methods have a little overlap, but not enough to change the mechanism.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Xpenno said:


> Ok, tried this recipe (albeit with the 1st edition coffee burrs). It's certainly clean, I would say that it's both slightly sweeter and bitter at the same time. It lacks the creamy body that I was getting previously, although the coffee is getting on a bit and I've not chemex'd it for a while. I stirred with a spoon and the coffee bed wasn't very even when it emptied after 4 mins pretty much on the nose. In the bed it looked like a wormhole so it made me wonder if we've switched from pour over to immersion with a draw down (via said wormhole). Really enjoyed the sweetness just need to work on the body which will hopefully come from adding a little bit more calcium to the water.


Mine had zero bitterness, hence me thinking i can get more, dropping the dose further


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

and not forgetting to finish around the outside to wash the slurry back into the middle.

no high and dry!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Right Chemex

Method - **** 2

Coffee - last of the La Loyaza

Ek callum Dial 5.5 Temp 96c ( water temp on the kettle really drop in long pour though )

25g >500g

50 g bloom - three stirs mini whisk for 30 seconds

All water in by 1.53...

Bed Dry by 4.28 ( didn't choke )

I poured mostly in the middle , i dunno know , apart from the end when i went round the edges. Bed a little uneven and a few grind high and dry

TDS 1.24 Bev Weight 455g EY = 23.51%

I get spences bitter and acidic comment

Im not sure this the best coffee to try this with as it was a rollercasoter in the cup between lime cherry and chocolate anyway .....

So its got that fight going on or change in taste as it cool more so than other coffees.

Perhaps try it this week IMM?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I poured mostly in the middle , i dunno know , apart from the end when i went round the edges.


Try starting central - outwards - back to central - outwards. Hard to explain without a video.

Wish Id had a refrac to hand because the TDS of my brew was definitely mid to late 1.2's

nb. Not sure I would want to use this ratio with a poorer water


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Try starting central - outwards - back to central - outwards. Hard to explain without a video.
> 
> Wish Id had a refrac to hand because the TDS of my brew was definitely mid to late 1.2's
> 
> nb. Not sure I would want to use this ratio with a poorer water


Fair point with water...

I think ill try and get to higher EY in my own way and technique and report back

Using Volvic btw....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

So attempt 2. ''It wasn't a fluke''

Vilca Natural. 3fe dial 6.5

24.75g/500g. Bloom-then-all-in-one technique. 75% roastery 25% clear view (want a touch less body)

Bloom with 60g, stir with mini whisk for 5 seconds, leave to 30 sec mark, water all in by 1min 35. Final drips 4min 40 seconds. This brew again choked at the end and it took 50 sec for the final 75ml to come through.

TDS guess 1.27-1.28 ish

Lush! Im finding these lower dosed, more throughly extracted chemexes much easier drinking. Again no bitterness : )

Probably the most balanced brew I have had with this coffee. Bolivia chocolatey notes apparent , even walnut on the finish. More depth and layers of flavour have been unlocked. Previously its all been cherry acidity and almond sweetness, with a shoulder of blackcurrant.

Christ the caffeine in Vilca's coffees this year , its potent stuff!


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

So it's now fair to say that by needing less coffee an EK saves you money


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

..and will, as a result, pay for itself.....eventually


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

There's a good chance you'll die first though


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

but happy!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Moved all the water discussion here....

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?21305-What-water-for-brewed&p=251689#post251689


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## CallumT (Aug 23, 2013)

I've just tried this on some of the LSOL Yirgs. Roasted on the 6th of January

24.75g D 507g BW I suspect 4.5 on my dial by pure accident

95deg start temp, BWT BestMin

75g bloom , stirred w/ spoon

@ 30s Topped up to 507g sloshed in by 1m 35 ; this is quite alarming.

Finally dropped 6min 20; so pretty sure I was 4.5.

Anyways it's off the chart on Mojo. Circa 26% EY lol, taste wise considering the car crash of a chemex.

TDS of 1.24


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## CallumT (Aug 23, 2013)

So much sweetness a little drying though as to be expected


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

CallumT said:


> Anyways it's off the chart on Mojo. Circa 26% EY lol, taste wise considering the car crash of a chemex.
> 
> TDS of 1.24


Sure you're not in immersion mode?


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## CallumT (Aug 23, 2013)

I was in immersion, which means 23.5% EY.

Probably explains the tastiness


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

CallumT said:


> I've just tried this on some of the LSOL Yirgs. Roasted on the 6th of January
> 
> 24.75g D 507g BW I suspect 4.5 on my dial by pure accident
> 
> ...


Use 7g less water and back off the grind about 3mm - repeat exactly the same - dryness gone?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Notice the anomoly on the EK original dial ? Coincidentally exactly where chemex is dialled in for the Gary method of chemex!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

COSTA RICA FINCA SALITRA GEISHA NATURAL

24.9g / 3FE dial 8

500g roastery/clearview

4min 15.

Beverage weight 440

TDS 1.20%

21.2% extraction

dare I say a touch under


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