# Union beans supplied to Waitrose - I have the access codes to the Zion mainframe



## Shaun (Jan 30, 2013)

I emailed Union yesterday (Sunday) and had a reply early Monday, so good on Union for such a quick response.

I asked whether there was a means of telling when beans supplied to Waitrose would have been roasted. This was the reply:

It's a real balance between freshness and convenience. At the moment we do not print on a roast date on our retail packs. As much we would like it, Waitrose just cannot sell coffee as fresh as we can ourselves, direct to you. The coffees in Waitrose is packed immediately on roasting in nitrogen flushed bags to preserve the flavours for as long as possible, so you will always be getting as fresh as possible. Just not as fresh as direct from us, and unfortunately with no guarantee of consistency since roast date. You may want to try Ocado where their supply pipeline is significantly shorter than Waitrose. There will be coding on the Waitrose packs. If you would like us to let you know when your pack's coffee was roasted, we can do this though would need this info from the pack to check against our records.

I then emailed the code on the pack of beans I was using, which showed a 'best before' date of 14 September 2013. The code was AAA 2348. So now for the information we've all been waiting for:

I can say that we place 9 months on our retail packs from roasting to best before. The code is roast date expressed as the Julian Date.

2348

2 = 2012

348- day of the year

As I mentioned, we would want our coffees brewed as soon as practical after roasting, but with the constraints the supermarkets place upon suppliers regards pipeline, we have to be realistic and work within this. Many others will have 12-18 months shelf life. For the quality of our coffees and the limitations the channel places on us, we feel, though not ideal, 9 months is a conservative period.

Which means the beans I'm using were roasted on 14th December and I bought them in Waitrose 7th February, nearly 2 months after roasting. However, on the same shelf, Waitrose had a pack with a 'best before' date of June 2013, which means they would have been roasted 5 months before the day I looked at them.

I've since emailed Union again (this will test their patience), to find out whether the supply of beans to Waitrose is a random thing according to the order placed, or is scheduled. Either way, are the beans freshly-roasted when they leave Union, or given the constraints of their supply process to retail outlets, are they not likely to be fresh? I'm thinking once this is known, there might be some merit in finding out when a local Waitrose is about to take delivery of a new batch of Union beans, to obtain them at their freshest - assuming that's close enough to the roast date to make a difference to just picking up whatever's on the shelf at the time of a routine visit.

My son works at Waitrose, so I get 15% off most things, which makes it £4.04 a bag for the Union beans (£4.75 normally) and obviously no delivery charge. Ocado may have fresher stock, but there's a fifty quid minimum order, so that would be the backup choice.

Shaun


----------



## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

What an excellent post from yourself and Union. I need to click that "thanks" button when I look in a second.

Anyway, It's nice of Union to be so honest. Also, I reckon given that the bags are gassed, one like yours bought at 3-4 weeks post-roast would probably still seem relatively fresh. Was it?

If the standard of their supermarket beans is up to that of their freshly roasted stock (albeit a bit older), the I'd certainly be willing to give it a crack.

I'll post back here if I ever buy one of the supermarket bags. The nine month shelf life is a good gauge as to how fresh the beans you buy are, but I don't think it's ever going to be something that we can fairly argue about; it's in the hands of the retailers. I'm guessing something within a couple of months post-roast is probably worth a go.


----------



## Shaun (Jan 30, 2013)

I've had my commercial machine for yonks and I've just added a commercial grinder, but my palate is stuck in French cafes, so I'm probably not the best to judge how the retail Union beans compare to others and freshness generally. What I can say is that the best espresso I'd managed to make before last week was bog-standard Lavazza, so you can see I have quite a ladder to climb. Nevertheless, the Union beans straightaway gave me the stripey mouse tails which I'd never seen before, and the flavour was more certainly more complex, in a good way.

However, just to confuse the issue, I've recently taken delivery of some Square Mile Red Brick and I'm counting the days to when it hopefully stops scaring my palate. I've read that something like 9 to 11 days is the best after roasting, but I can't believe it's going to change that much over the coming days. It's so sharp I don't know how to describe it. So, back to Union and if their really fresh stuff can improve on a couple of months old bag from Waitrose, then I'll be well pleased. I'm seriously considering having a word with the manager to find out when their new stock is due in, just to see how near to roasting day I can get.


----------



## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Shaun said:


> However, just to confuse the issue, I've recently taken delivery of some Square Mile Red Brick and I'm counting the days to when it hopefully stops scaring my palate. I've read that something like 9 to 11 days is the best after roasting, but I can't believe it's going to change that much over the coming days. It's so sharp I don't know how to describe it.


Ah, Red Brick can be tricky. I personally only like it in mil;k, where it can be amazing.

I find it best when it's extracted more than usual. I think I was doing something like 35 seconds.


----------



## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Went to check in Waitrose this lunch time, and indeed, the dates ascend as you get to the front of the shelf. Revelation espresso was mainly four weeks old, which I reckon might be fine as it's gassed.

Funny thing is though..... It isn't just Union who are using that format of batch code near the best before date!


----------



## hopsyturvy (Jan 7, 2013)

rodabod said:


> I find it best when it's extracted more than usual. I think I was doing something like 35 seconds.


I would agree with this, a few places aim for 30+ seconds for this which would totally kill a more traditional blend. Try 17g dose, 32 secs, for a yield of 30g and see what you think then


----------



## Shaun (Jan 30, 2013)

I think anyone new to this game whose tastes have yet to develop (and whose familiarity with espresso is narrow) could do worse than have written on their left hand - "Union Revelation - nice, safe, traditional espresso." On the right would be "Square Mile Red Brick: prepare for palate shock!"

I've had a bit of the red brick each day for 8 days now and it hasn't changed, despite what I've read about optimum taste after roast date. I've tried everything from 16g to 19g, plus different grinds and tamps. These factors have only altered the crema and the pour, and it tastes the same each time - sharp and fruity as hell. Square mile recommend the higher 18-19g dose and longish shot time, and loth as I am to admit it ('cos if it wasn't so expensive, I'd bin it), that has been the best option, mainly because I shivered less on tasting.

By huge contrast, a happy donkey also arrived on the scene this week, carrying Brazilian (not yet tried) and Classic Italian (now very much tried).

By now beginners still reading this will have run out of hands to write notes on, so foreheads will have to do, and you'll need to do carriage returns. Here goes. "Donkey Italian: absolute doddle to get massive crema and full cups of rich, traditional espresso, seemingly regardless of bean weight, grind, tamp or water temp."

This stuff is very fresh and can be dug into straight away. Cheap as chips and only the postage sends it up to the level which is nearly on par with picking up bags of Union from Waitrose. But by comparison the donkey is clearly the fresher bean, and if this is what others describe as undemanding and lacking in diversity of flavour, then so be it. Those of us with undemanding, traditional palates who enjoy a deep and rich crema, can enjoy this to the full, knowing how little it has cost.

In short, the donkey's nuts!

Shaun


----------



## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Shaun said:


> I think anyone new to this game whose tastes have yet to develop (and whose familiarity with espresso is narrow) could do worse than have written on their left hand - "Union Revelation - nice, safe, traditional espresso." On the right would be "Square Mile Red Brick: prepare for palate shock!"....By now beginners still reading this will have run out of hands to write notes on, so foreheads will have to do, and you'll need to do carriage returns. Here goes. "Donkey Italian: absolute doddle to get massive crema and full cups of rich, traditional espresso, seemingly regardless of bean weight, grind, tamp or water temp."


 HD Classic Italian and SQ Red Brick are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Red Brick epitomises the best of 'third wave' roasters - bright, fruity complex, difficult whereas Classic Italian is just it claims to be - 30% robusta content and dark roast (which many will scorn), much more tolerant of different brewing parameters.

If that's what you like, don't let anyone put you off it! You may find as you (as I have) that the more you drink and the better your machine and technique, you begin to edge towards the lighter roasts.

There is a thread on this forum which I started entitled "Did the Italians get it wrong or get it right?" which might be on interest to you.


----------



## Shaun (Jan 30, 2013)

I did indeed read that long thread, but I couldn't picture the flavours being described at the time, so it was hard to appreciate the respective sides to the discussion. Now I've actually tasted fruits or whatever in my coffee it all makes much more sense. If I'd seen the Square Mile bag of beans before buying it, I'd have taken a step back, in the same way I do when someone picks an unusual berry with hairs on it from a bush and expects me to eat it.

So I'm not sure it's really about lighter or darker roasts, but more the acute flavours hitting me. I guess I never expected coffee to involve such varied things, and if anyone's in any doubt as to what's out there, here's the list of goodies from the sweetie shop for Red Brick: cherry, toasted marshmallow, treacle, toffee, baked apple, milk chocolate, marzipan, brazil nuts, caramel - and to cap it all, blackcurrant jam and red berries.

If there are people out there who can taste that little lot, then I'm humbled. That picnic in the forest can be compared to donkey's perfunctory approach of toffee, caramel and creamy chocolate. Actually, looking at the three packets in front of me, I see Union Revelation mentions berries but I can't say I've noticed in the taste. I'll pretend I didn't see that and just mention the chocolate and sweet caramel.


----------



## mookielagoo (Dec 12, 2012)

Shaun said:


> I think anyone new to this game whose tastes have yet to develop (and whose familiarity with espresso is narrow) could do worse than have written on their left hand - "Union Revelation - nice, safe, traditional espresso." On the right would be "Square Mile Red Brick: prepare for palate shock!"
> 
> I've had a bit of the red brick each day for 8 days now and it hasn't changed, despite what I've read about optimum taste after roast date. I've tried everything from 16g to 19g, plus different grinds and tamps. These factors have only altered the crema and the pour, and it tastes the same each time - sharp and fruity as hell. Square mile recommend the higher 18-19g dose and longish shot time, and loth as I am to admit it ('cos if it wasn't so expensive, I'd bin it), that has been the best option, mainly because I shivered less on tasting.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I have to agree with Shaun - I started out with the Brazilian and the Classic Italian from HD - both of which are lovely and produce lovely thick creamy good stuff! Ive since tried stuff from Compass and Grumpy mule and they don't seem anything too special - Im still dreaming about the Brazillian from HD (which is my fav) and ive got 2 more bags to get stuck into......nice!


----------



## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Shaun said:


> I did indeed read that long thread, but I couldn't picture the flavours being described at the time, so it was hard to appreciate the respective sides to the discussion. Now I've actually tasted fruits or whatever in my coffee it all makes much more sense. If I'd seen the Square Mile bag of beans before buying it, I'd have taken a step back, in the same way I do when someone picks an unusual berry with hairs on it from a bush and expects me to eat it.
> 
> So I'm not sure it's really about lighter or darker roasts, but more the acute flavours hitting me. I guess I never expected coffee to involve such varied things, and if anyone's in any doubt as to what's out there, here's the list of goodies from the sweetie shop for Red Brick: cherry, toasted marshmallow, treacle, toffee, baked apple, milk chocolate, marzipan, brazil nuts, caramel - and to cap it all, blackcurrant jam and red berries.
> 
> If there are people out there who can taste that little lot, then I'm humbled. That picnic in the forest can be compared to donkey's perfunctory approach of toffee, caramel and creamy chocolate. Actually, looking at the three packets in front of me, I see Union Revelation mentions berries but I can't say I've noticed in the taste. I'll pretend I didn't see that and just mention the chocolate and sweet caramel.


I'd imagine the Happy Donkey blend contains some Robusta, which gives you the crema and more traditional taste you are getting.

If you enjoy it that's all that matters


----------



## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Union rwanda and ethoipian yirgacheffe are currently 20% off at waitrose = £3.80 for 227g

http://www.waitrose.com/shop/BrowseCmd?pageNo=1&defaultSearch=None&searchTerm=dW5pb24%3D&level0Aisle=Groceries&isFromHomePage=true&searchFlag=true&langId=-11&sortValue=0&storeId=10317&search=Search

I'm going too pick up some packs a couple of packs off each (after checking dates)

Anyone tried either of these?


----------



## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

They only had ground in those varieties at my local (Westfield, White City). Foundation are the only whole beans.

Avoid the Waitrose Kenyan AA beans. Bleurggghhhh! They tasted like filth!


----------



## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

rodabod said:


> Foundation are the only whole beans.


Thanks ....that narrows down my waitrose selection


----------



## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Unless of course the other Waitrose shops have the other blends in whole bean. Just remember to check the date codes! Foundation is a great espresso blend by the way, in case you haven't tried it already.


----------



## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

rodabod said:


> Unless of course the other Waitrose shops have the other blends in whole bean. Just remember to check the date codes! Foundation is a great espresso blend by the way, in case you haven't tried it already.


Thanks will take a look in my local store and see what they have in stock.

Looking online Ocado appears to have much better selection of Union coffee (albeit no foundation).

http://www.ocado.com/webshop/getSearchProducts.do?clearTabs=yes&isFreshSearch=true&entry=union

Revelation seems to get good reviews on the Ocado site.


----------



## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

i tried the happy donkey beans, didnt like them at all... overly dark, bitter and harsh tasting. I couldn't get on with them at all. By contrast, i can see what people mean about difficult lighter roasts, some of the hasbean stuff has been very hard to get working right, but i do quite enjoy the lighter fruity stuff.

My top gear top tip, is Allpress Redchurch blend. Its dark (not happy donkey dark, but dark), rich and produces lovely crema. Its strong enough to be a lot closer to a traditional espresso and has a lot of the classic toffee and chocolate stuff going on, with only the mildest hint of berry somewhere in the mix, its quite far back in the taste profile. Its very much in the style of a classic espresso, but brought up to date. I'd suggest trying redchurch and seeing how you do.

Its also fairly easy to extract well, it responds to many different techniques (e.g. overdosing, ristretto's, lungo's etc)


----------



## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Tried my local branch (Billericay Essex) today. They only do the Union Revelation in whole bean and roast date was December 14.

Went for a cafe-direct mach pichhu which also uses the same code system revealing a more recent roast date (Jan 28)

Op these codes are very good way too sort out freshet beans on shelf.


----------

