# Taking The Hog



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Move over Londinium distribution tool - Barista Hustle introduce the Hog.

Can't figure if Chas 'n' Dave are playing this for real or it's a send up.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Oh they're serious 

Looks a cool idea - let's hope it can be taken in to prototype


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Gave up the will to live after 2 minutes!


----------



## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Gave up the will to live after 2 minutes!


The synopsis then...

Clumps are bad..mkay

This tool wots in prototype unclumps clumps

Sometimes the shot tastes better.... but not every time.

The 'time' of extraction can vary depending on grind size. (no revelation there then, lol)


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I made it to 2.35 dont they bore on in the most monotenous voice


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Crickey, this is absolutely groundbreaking stuff! One cocktail stick effects distribution in a small way. two slightly more. 3 slightly more....a while load....well.the sky is the limit, unless you have a Mythos when it all becomes academic


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Gave up the will to live after 2 minutes!


That long?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> That long?


Actually, it was after I saw the haircut and rolled up sleeves but I thought I had better show some enthusiasm...of, and the fact that I rolled forwards to 5 mins then 10 and the monotone had not changed a bit


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Did the same, David. Just couldn't hang in for the whole 12mins.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I could do the whole demo in about 45 seconds, but such is the need for plain ordinary people to sit in front of a camera and waffle on. if they were paying for the privilege and not doing it on an iPhone they would soon get the idea. At least they did not wear tea cosies and were not inked with piercings which seems so fashionable amongst the coffee fraternity


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

It fails. Theres no snap to it. I didnt even get to see the product because they deliverence was way too long winded.

It could be a good product for all i know.

I was also sucked into watching it by the promise of some chas n dave.

I feel cheeted


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Where's the wenge?


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Wenge is so last year.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

DaveP said:


> The 'time' of extraction can vary depending on grind size. (no revelation there then, lol)


I missed that bit what did they say?

What I picked up was that people are often grinding too fine, so they achieve 'enough' resistance & extend shot time, but good extractions are possible at a coarser grind if you can hit them through better basket distributions? Makes sense to me.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> I missed that bit what did they say?
> 
> What I picked up was that people are often grinding too fine, so they achieve 'enough' resistance & extend shot time, but good extractions are possible at a coarser grind if you can hit them through better basket distributions? Makes sense to me.


I am always surprised Mark, that you prefer to use hand grinders. As you know, there are some pretty good hand grinders but also pretty good electric ones


----------



## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

MWJB said:


> I missed that bit what did they say?
> 
> What I picked up was that people are often grinding too fine, so they achieve 'enough' resistance & extend shot time, but good extractions are possible at a coarser grind if you can hit them through better basket distributions? Makes sense to me.


You picked it ok, my brief synopsis may of been a bit to brief, lol


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I am always surprised Mark, that you prefer to use hand grinders. As you know, there are some pretty good hand grinders but also pretty good electric ones


You have lost me there?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The point I am making is that things like particle distribution, grind quality and the likes that become important differentiating factors, surely become less of an issue with better quality grinders. I am probably wrong, but I thought I had noted somewhere that you only used hand grinders


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The point I am making is that things like particle distribution, grind quality and the likes that become important differentiating factors, surely become less of an issue with better quality grinders. I am probably wrong, but I thought I had noted somewhere that you only used hand grinders


Yes, I use only hand grinders. I don't for sure know how grind quality/particle distribution ties up with being a "better" grinder. A hand grinder with a certain burr will have a particle distribution, a better grinder might have a different one, two better grinders might have different again...maybe all these differences dovetail within what is normal?

At drip settings (~800um average) I reckon my better hand grinders with ~30mm diameter inner burrs & bearing support, have a sdev factor of 1.4 (or 1.7 if using Kruve), what does your Mythos do?

Why do you think grind distribution is less important for some grinders (pretty sure Michael Cameron has extensive experience with a Mythos, When Christian Klatt of Hemro talked on grinder distribution he was clear to avoid using terms like "better/worse")? Making a grind distribution is all they do, it seems equally important to all of them, one that makes a bizarrely wide distribution & can't hit a tasty shot at a common recipe, probably isn't "better", no matter what you pay for it (no idea if such a grinder is even well known).

How do you know for certain, that grind setting & hitting a required amount of fines/small particles to slow the flow enough, isn't as/more critical in achieving a ball-park shot than tightness/wideness of distribution (within reason)? Maybe being able to reduce the amount of the smallest particles, that end up in the cup, can make espresso cleaner, sweeter & preferable to some? Either by grinding coarser & distributing the dose more evenly in the basket, or by preinfusing with a fine grind?

I'm pretty sure the goals they are talking about & their preferences don't line up much with yours, which doesn't make them right & you wrong, everyone has the right to make coffee how they like it & share ways to achieve their goals.

I can hit the same extraction yield, same dose, same recipe, in half the time (20s) of another shot (40s), the shot that still hits an equivalent yield and is faster, tastes cleaner to me.


----------



## robashton (May 9, 2015)

Came here to see what how the nerds had summarised the video because I really couldn't sit through that lengthy spiel - seems you all had the same problem.

I'll wait for the Cliff Notes version.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

robashton said:


> Came here to see what how the nerds had summarised the video because I really couldn't sit through that lengthy spiel - seems you all had the same problem.
> 
> I'll wait for the Cliff Notes version.


Thy designed a thing, it doesn't do any harm, but doesn't always do better, after more tinkering they will send it out for testing, then maybe put them into production.


----------



## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

Ok we have had the synopsis and the cliff notes.....

Now the moral..

Graded grains make finer errrrr ... coffee


----------



## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

U mm...

I watched it twice.


----------



## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

They are not giving up on this, does this mean anyone who buys into this? has to have a pile of 'logs and leaves', as they do have a tendency to hibernate at this time of the year in the northern hemisphere, perhaps they haven't thought this all the way through yet,


















From there lastest email

'' We got a prototype and she's cute, if not a little deadly.

After some testing it turns out thin pins (0.5mm) isn't as good as 1mm, which is excellent news from a manufacturing and durability perspective. We've already sent off for another model with fewer, thicker, pins to see how it compares with our initial 3D printed prototype.

We've found up to 2% more extraction, and incredible increases in sweetness and clarity with this style of tool. We have no idea how or why though.

To clear up some confusion, this isn't a distribution tool and shouldn't be seen as a competitor or successor to any distribution tools or techniques (we're still testing those!). It's something else entirely. ? ''


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

gonna take a punt here and guess that this won't be as good an improvement as the sieve technique, but will be better than whisking.

could be very viable though as it will be more convenient...you should never underestimate my laziness


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I would love a super taster to be given blind, 5 shots of the same bean, all made identically except for one using this 'hog' an see if it makes any difference at all to the perceived taste


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Just had the misfortune to see this post for the first time.

If ever there was a case for less is more.

Watched a couple of minutes if the video and switched off.

Looks like a 'more money than sense' type of purchase ........ if they stop pontificating and get on with producing the thing


----------



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

agree that the video isn't exactly inspiring but if this is able to show a significant ext % improvement for just pushing something into the PF then


----------

