# Astoria CMA Lisa Restoration



## coffeechops

Hello! First proper post, so please be gentle with me...

I managed to pick up an ex-Costa CMA Astoria Lisa (the full-auto model) on Ebay a few weeks ago. It was advertised as (and is) fully working, but being a meddlesome sort I wanted to see what went on under the hood and give it a bit of a clean. As with all these things that's turning into a bit more of a full strip-down and restoration&#8230; still, I have a Silvia with PID doing fine service right now and will be moving house in a few weeks so I'm in no particular rush, better as always to do things right rather than quickly.

I thought I'd document how it goes for you all - any suggestions or ideas gratefully received&#8230;

Here's how it arrived, next to trusty Miss Silvia for scale (though there is much more to de-scale, that's for sure







):









(please excuse poor quality, only had the mobile with me)

Clothes off:









Lovely to work with so much space! Few duff screws, but overall not too bad at all, just a bit of frame rust. Above the boiler:









First issue - the machine auto-fills fine, but the water level is above the top level on the sight tube - is that normal? When draining, it also seems to sit at half level when the boiler is empty. I'm thinking blockages - first clue that a full strip down and descale is needed&#8230;

Not certain of the correct height of the level probe (it's close to the cup-warmer), the two over-pressure safeties (why two?), and I think the anti-vac valve and the level probe are in the wrong holes. Finally there seems to be an un-connected element thermostat on this boiler too, in slightly ropey condition. The manuals for this machine (Boosted system) show it, but the cct diagrams have no place to connect it. A bit odd - any ideas?

Have ordered most of the gaskets and washers needed for strip down and rebuild - with great help from Peter at Espresso Underground, waiting on arrival of them now. Next is strip down of the group head...

















Euch, I'd hate to have drunk from this! More to come.

Cheers,

Colin


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## Mrboots2u

Keep sharing the pics , great to see restoration works.


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## coffeechops

Next, on to disassembly of the group head and get it cleaned up a bit.

Scale:









Into de-scaler for the brass/copper, and Cafiza for the chrome:

















Gak, pretty horrible. Still, here we go:









Better!

Cheers,

Colin


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## coffeechops

Final bits on the group head:

























Pretty pleased with that! Solenoid also in good nick (artificial ruby used for the seals, too!), so it bodes well for the rest of the machine.

Bit of a break now whilst I move house, then on to the boiler strip down - this is inside the group-head-to-boiler cavity, lots of gritty scale; I guess the boiler will be the same...









Any thoughts on the level probe/thermostat/two safety valves would be welcome!

Cheers,

Colin


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## stub24

Nice thread, the two safety valves is strange, the vacuum breaker and safety valve can be interchanged in position however the one that should not be mixed up is the hot water outlet as this is connected to a pipe that sits below the water level. Sounds to me as if the sight glass is gummed up with scale and the level probe is working fine, I would open up the boiler and see where it is located.

Stuart


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## coffeechops

Thanks for the info Stuart, I took a good look at your thread too, hope I can get mine to that level...

It looks like the level probe and anti-vac are the ones that may have been swapped rather than level and safety probe.

Any thoughts on the thermostat (black device with no wires on the terminals at the rear-right on the top-of-boiler picture, next to the autofill solenoid)? Can't work out why that is there and not blanked off, there seems to be no need for it electrically on these machines...

Below a pic of the wonderful removable boiler end plate - once the new gasket arrives (or maybe before...) I'll get that off and should be able to see if the probe is good without having to remove it!

Colin


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## stub24

Right, from the parts diagrams I have been looking though your boiler most closely resembles an Astoria Boosted 1gr with the thermostat on top of the boiler as yours is. My guess would be that someone added the pressurestat and routed the wiring through that rather than the thermostat and rather than blanking it off they just left it in. The level probe does look like it has been swapped with the anti-vac, this wont really make a difference you just need to make sure that the end of the probe is located in a suitable position in the boiler so roughly 3/4 of the boiler is full of water (this is a very rough value and is up to your preference).


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## espressotechno

Almost all the CMA machines (Costa, Wega, Astoria) have 2 safety valves fitted.....don't know why......


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## coffeechops

Hi Stuart, thanks for the info, especially on the probe level. Yup, that's the one. The standard config is for the pressurestat fitted from the factory as far as I can tell - it's attached to the un-numbered fitting underneath item 13 (the left-most one, next to the boiler end-plate) in your diagram; certainly looks original and all the diagrams show it as original on this model. They also show the thermostat but no circuit diagrams show it connected. I'm wondering if the thermostat is for the element rather than the water, but there is no electrical attachment on any of the older CMA Astoria machines as far as I can see from their diagrams - only the very recent ones seem to have a controller that will support it.







It doesn't need it as far as I can see, maybe I'll just remove and blank it.



> Almost all the CMA machines (Costa, Wega, Astoria) have 2 safety valves fitted.....don't know why......


Really? Ah, that's great to know ... thanks, puts my mind at rest!

Colin


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## espressotechno

The pressure switch (= thermostat) is wired to the boiler element, usually via the mains on/off switch. Your element looks like a 3 loop one, with the live side in parallel as well as the neutrals.

PS Take lots of pics & notes of connections, layouts, etc before dismantling....saves time & grief when re-assembling !


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## espressotechno

Your pressure switch has only one pair of contacts connected & they will be scorched / pitted. So just move the 2 leads to a new pair of contacts......saves on a new pressure switch (assuming it works) !


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## coffeechops

> The pressure switch (= thermostat) is wired to the boiler element


Thanks again - but in this case there is both the standard pressurestat (Sirai) and a thermostat - with the thermostat not connected. The various diagrams around the web all show the thermostat (and the pstat) as original fitments, but none of the accompanying circuit diagrams show it connected to anything. Indeed, the controller (which seems to be the right type for this machine) has no electrical connections present for it. Colour me confused - it's a ~£120 part that doesn't seem to need to be fitted?









Great idea on the pstat contacts - will definitely do that!

Colin


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## iroko

Thanks for posting, look forward to more pics.


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## espressotechno

PPS The heat exchanger assembly can be very difficult to make watertight on re-fitting. Use a torque wrench on the 6 hex bolts if possible.


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## tictok

Hey Colin - you're right, looks about the same state as my machine was - although you're is a much nicer beast altogether!

The scale in yours is different I reckon. Whatever was in my boiler was deffo much darker... really stubborn too. Wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't scale but due to some electrolysis or combination of both.... dunno really though. Just guessing.

Looking good, will be be keeping an eye on your progress









Cheers

Stef


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## coffeechops

espressotechno said:


> PPS The heat exchanger assembly can be very difficult to make watertight on re-fitting. Use a torque wrench on the 6 hex bolts if possible.


Will do - have torque wrenches large and small. Is there a list of torques for these machines out there anywhere? The allen bolts are pretty meaty...

Colin


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## coffeechops

tictok said:


> Looking good, will be be keeping an eye on your progress


Cheers Stef, trying hard to concentrate on packing the house when I'd rather be pulling the machine apart...

C


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## espressotechno

Re. Torque: Remember that you're bolting copper to copper, so use the small torque wrench, start low...if joint still leaking then increase gradually.....

Re. Control box: Your m/c is an auto (pushbutton), so the control box has to be wired up to almost everything - power cables, ribbon cable (to touchpad), etc.

Remember to check the fuses, if fitted, inside the box.


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## coffeechops

Thanks on the bolts Espressotechno, I'll do that. There is no connection on the control board for the thermostat, so all I can imagine is that it really is fitted but not used on this model.

Anyway, on to some real fun tonight - opening the boiler!







I was told by the seller that this machine wasn't scaled up... boy am I glad I didn't believe him!

Heat exchanger manifold off to look inside the exchanger... crud!









How on earth did this thing even work?!? Element out:









More crud...! Minor sign of corrosion on two bolts:









I think they were simply loose. And for the finale, inside the boiler:









Yum 

After doing some house packing I really had fun taking this apart tonight. Every bolt came out almost too easily - absolutely no pressure required at all, to the point where some were literally finger tight - the element contact were actually loose. All threads - apart from the minor corrosion - were perfect. I'm amazed it sealed at all, but it did. That and the Teflon gaskets made it a dream to disassemble, I was expecting a fight on my hands with the size of the allen bolts (the pipe fittings were as tight as expected but were fine to remove).

More disassembly tomorrow after doing my penance by packing a few more boxes for the house move...

Cheers,

Colin


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## tictok

Wow - that's a big arsed boiler! How many litres?

gonna fizz a bit when you get it descaling.

The stuff in the heat exchanger looks pretty scary. At least it looks like to can scoop a fair bit of it out.

I've gotta take a leaf out of your book and pack some boxes for our move. Keep getting distracted / procrastinating... Compared to preparing for house moving, descaling is nearly fun!


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## espressotechno

The heat exchanger tube can be pulled out - there's another gasket behind the flange.


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## coffeechops

Not with that amount of scale welding the outside of the HX to the end plate!  You can't see it in those photos, but the rear of the HX - the part in the boiler - is about 3mm thick in scale all over. Gentle mallet tapping isn't shifting it at all. Once I've descaled I'm expecting it'll come out quite easily...

Colin


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## coffeechops

tictok said:


> Wow - that's a big arsed boiler! How many litres?


6 litres 

2350W. I'm planning on using it to heat the kitchen...


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## coffeechops

Hmm, did a bit more disassembly tonight and I'm really hoping someone can re-assure me the machine isn't a complete wreck. I took the boiler out, and found this:

















The large dent you can see was hidden behind the sight glass - pretty much invisible until removed. It looks like the boiler has been knocked in to fit the sight glass, actually - I don't believe it can fit in without doing it. The sight glass top mounting has left the deeper but older scratch at the top centre; the fresh scratch to the right and slightly lower is from a nut on the sight glass scratching it when being turned. It does appear to be pressure tight.

So, are they all like this or have I bought a complete lemon?

Help!

Colin


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## tictok

Man, that's one hell of a 'ding'. Someone must've enjoyed goning hell for leather at that if it's an after market 'mod'...

Did a sight glass not come as standard then?


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## coffeechops

As far as I'm aware the sight glass is standard...


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## espressotechno

As long as there are no leaks in the "ding" area, then just leave it alone. You'll find any such leaks after the boiler has been fully descaled (!) & refilled.


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## Padder

Makes me wonder if the boiler has been replaced at some point with the wrong one and they've had to make it fit


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## coffeechops

Been a bit busy with house packing to do much until this evening. Currently have the HX and boiler end plate in acid, much fizzing as tictok predicted - even my hands are fizzing slightly (made it slightly too strong to get fingers into, I think - that'll teach me!)

Thanks again espressotechno; no harm in trying the descale now I guess, if the dent looks sound when clean I'll re-fit everything and see if the pinholes appear when pressurized. What's the cure if there are any holes? Re-weld I guess, or maybe just wait for it to scale up again!

Padder - yeah, that sounds like the only logical reason. I'm not aware of any smaller boilers in their range, and any smaller would make the top fittings difficult to fit, but it's either that or the dent was added in the factory. Add it to the list of oddities on this machine I guess.

I'll see if I can pressure test it cold and completely full to 2 bar (the level the two (!) safety valves are supposed to pop at) when re-assembled. Mains water pressure here is 7 bar, so I'll use a PRV and fill it completely direct from mains, then close the taps and slowly ramp the pressure to check they blow. I might do that in the garden...

Will post some more pics of the descaling tomorrow if anyone is still interested?

Cheers,

Colin


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## Milanski

Keep 'em coming! You know we all love it!!


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## iroko

Oh yes, more pics please.


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## coffeechops

OK, ok!

Well, was hoping to have some 'before' and 'after' pics... but I mostly have 'before' and 'during' - about 18 hours in two lots of fizzy water so far, and still haven't got enough scale off to remove the HX from the end plate, and the interior of the HX is still full of crud. It's going to take a while....

After 4 hours:

























Nice colour, lots of dark gunk too. By the morning this had turned completely blue, and a lot of the scale had precipitated out - not sure what that's all about, but the blue deposits cleaned off with a soft brush. Looking shinier now though in some new solution:









The element is inside the HX with solution poured inside just to save time later, and because it's a great way of supporting the element without getting the terminals and insulator in the solution. Hopefully get the HX out tonight!

Colin


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## coffeechops

And finally! The HX is out...









Amazing amounts of scale still in the HX - it's 10mm thick I reckon. Going to take a good while to get that out...

Colin


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## coffeechops

Not much to report since the above pic. The outside of the HX is now free of scale, as is the end plate and the manifold, but the inside of the HX and the boiler are still thick in it. I'm moving hose tomorrow so I think there will be a short pause in proceedings whilst I re-find everything....

C


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## iroko

Thanks for finding time to post pics, Its all looking very good.


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## espressotechno

You should remove the inner & outer teflon gaskets from the HX tube & descale/clean the flange, as new gaskets have to be used in the rebuild.


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## coffeechops

Thanks, they're now free - couldn't remove them before as the scale wouldn't allow them to come off. I could have cut them off I suppose if I'm replacing them (I think I have the correct size replacement -packed somewhere now - though I do need to check).

I'm struggling to find a replacement Teflon 12-hole boiler and boiler-to-group gaskets though. Peter at espresso underground sorted me out with card gaskets, but I'm loathed to use them as I hate stripping old card gaskets off and Teflon makes removing them a breeze... If anyone knows of a source please let me know.

Colin


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## tictok

How's it going? Have you still got a bunch if different pieces or is it starting to come back together yet?

Getting the old gasket off my boiler was one of the trickiest bits for me. Didn't even realise there was a gasket there at first....


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## espressotechno

Coffeechops: pm me - I should be able to get teflon gaskets for your m/c.


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## coffeechops

tictok said:


> How's it going? Have you still got a bunch if different pieces or is it starting to come back together yet?
> 
> Getting the old gasket off my boiler was one of the trickiest bits for me. Didn't even realise there was a gasket there at first....


Still in pieces, somewhere in the complete chaos that is the new house. I haven't even seen it since we moved on Monday. I'd guess another two weeks until I can get back to it - a bit frustrating!

C


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## coffeechops

espressotechno said:


> Coffeechops: pm me - I should be able to get teflon gaskets for your m/c.


Brilliant, thanks - will drop you a pm.

Colin


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## coffeechops

I'm feeling guilty for not updating this thread for a while - I have been busy on the descaling, it's just taking a LONG time!

I've got through around a kilo of citric now, mostly on the HX which is still a long way from done. I haven't started on the boiler yet - am hoping the plain grey scale in there is less resilient than the horrible brown stuff in the HX.

Once that's done I should be able to compile a list of the gaskets I don't have, then onto the frame (which is now stripped and is mostly fine with some surface rust - wire brush and paint I think).

Here's a couple of pics of some clean pipes and the still-scaled HX...

























Colin


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## Charliej

Could you get a Dremel down into the HX to attack the scale directly?


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## coffeechops

I've thought about at but I'm worried that I'd damage the copper - it's much softer than the scale, and there is already some minor corrosion underneath the scale. It's pretty deep now too ( the HX is a good ten inches long) so a bit deep to reach.

The scale is coming out, just taking a long time. Patience is the key I reckon...

Colin


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## espressotechno

Phosphoric acid works faster & doesn't attack copper or brass. Try a janitorial supplies/cleaning company - ask for "phos" phosphoric acid in 5 litre bottle, not the foaming stuff.

Dilute to taste - 1+4 works well.


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## Charliej

espressotechno said:


> Phosphoric acid works faster & doesn't attack copper or brass. Try a janitorial supplies/cleaning company - ask for "phos" phosphoric acid in 5 litre bottle, not the foaming stuff.
> 
> Dilute to taste - 1+4 works well.


Alternatively there is always the crazy idea of trying some cheapo supermarket own brand cola in the HX some people swear by this for cleaning all sorts of things, just pour it in and leave a day or so, cola contains phosphoric acid amongst other things.


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## coffeechops

I didn't think citric attacked copper or brass either? At least, I understood that both acids (with the strength of the reaction depending on concentration) attack the zinc in brass, and then the copper re-precipitates out. I always thought that was why acid-treated brass goes pink with a covering of pure copper, and returns to a brass colour when that is rubbed off... Regardless, I've now used up all my remaining citric so I'll definitely try the phosphoric for the next batch! Can't hurt to try a bottle of coke too, though with this boiler I'll need ten litres of the stuff to fill the bucket 

The scale is coming off nicely - the last bits are getting easier to dislodge with a screwdriver, so I think the acid has soaked through and is starting to loosen it from the walls rather than dissolve it from the surface. So, I thought I'd attack the boiler tonight... lots of fun! I discovered that, thankfully, the boiler scale is completely different in character to the HX, much softer, and mechanical removal was really very easy. Half an hour of gentle tapping with a hammer and screwdriver went from this:









To this:









Surprising difference in weight with all that stone out of it too. And then into the bucket of fizzy water (along with a few other bits)...









Massive amounts of fizz! That's about 15 litres of acid water in that bucket, to the brim. Really quite noisy too. Hopefully this won't take too long!

Colin


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## coffeechops

Boiler is unbelievably almost done - I reckon by end of tomorrow it'll be complete, then on to the frame and getting that gasket list together.

Couple of questions:

Is this the Phos I should be getting? Any idea what concentration to use it at?

Also, Quite a few of the pipe joints were filled with sealant in order to make sure the orientation was correct (elbows and the like - need to point in the right direction so can't be tightened completely...). Is there a standard pipe/thread sealant/filler to be used on espresso machines, something that'll withstand the pressure?

Colin


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## stub24

Hi Colin, I only apply teflon tape to the hx pipes to get them in the correct orientation all other joints I just use the correct teflon seal or copper crush washer. Personally I don't like to apply any sealant so my advice would be to try and do away with anything extra and test for leaks before thinking of sealant.

P.s. Try each hx joint in each thread to see which combination ends up closest to the correct orientation


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## espressotechno

Yes "Phos" is the right stuff. Dilute 1+4.

The copper pipes can be carefully bent to align up the ends...usually just a few degrees will be sufficient. Wrap a cloth round the part to be bent, then slowly does it.

Use white PTFE tape on both male & female joints.

The T or L connectors on the boiler casing, after taping up, can be turned with a spanner to align them with the copper feed pipes.

Don't overtighten the nuts- it's copper & brass you're working with !


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## coffeechops

Great, thanks both. I may have been over-optimistic that the descaled would be done today - the boiler is done, the HX still being stubborn....

C


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## iroko

Thanks for update, coming along nicely.


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## coffeechops

Big thanks to esspressotechno... Phos is much faster than citric acid for stubborn scale. Boiler and HX now clean, as are all the other components:









Dent doesn't look too bad now - it could be factory... maybe.









For reference:









Frame is now being disassembled and cleaned prior to painting. Now to source the missing gaskets.

Colin


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## glevum

3rd picture down looks like a cement mixer. boiler looks really good now


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## coffeechops

So, this restoration has not died, it's merely been.... resting. Very busy at work recently, so I've not had time to do much - but I have now got the frame painted (mostly) and back together.

Firstly, what a load of sh*te the new formulation of Hammerite is. The frame is cadmium plated, so I cleaned off all the loose rust with wire brush, scrubbed with tsp and acid, treated with Kurust and used Hammerite special metals primer as instructed on the tin. Primer just did not take properly, many coats to get it to cover. Then the Hammerite top coat; appalling coverage, again would not stick to the primer, never mind the metal. Three (expensive) tins to get nowhere near full coverage. Confused as I'd used Hammerite with great success before, I had a look on t'web and it seems they've cheapened the formulation from Xylene-based to white spirit based. Found an old Xylene can in the shed and what a difference! Quarter of a tin, easy coverage, stuck like glue. I'm never using (new) Hammerite again.

Anyway, some photos:

















It's a big old frame, looks very industrial in poorly-painted black. Might leave it exposed, get some heavy perspex to cover the sides.

Waiting for the paint to harden, then re-assembly time - maybe this weekend...

Colin


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## coffeechops

So, today I finally got al the hydraulics assembled and got to put water pressure into the machine - big day! No electrics yet. Predictably, there were leaks; around the grouphead to group (needs tightening), flowmeter in and output (not sure, thought they were tight enough) but more worryingly, the lower sight tube end fitting turned out to have fractured:









Boo :-(

The pipe looks fine, it's the fitting sleeve only that has gone. Not unexpected - this pipe was completely blocked and needed drilling out, so I guess that copper had migrated out of the fitting and weakened it.

So, I think I may have a source for replacement, but I'm not certain (I've also asked espressotechno). If that doesn't work, then I guess the only options are to replace the ferrule thing at the end of the pipe (silver solder?) or get a complete new pipe made. First thing I really need to know then - what are the pipe-end fittings called, exactly?

Colin


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## Mouse

I'm absolutely gutted for you Colin!!

Fingers crossed your replacement part comes through!


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## Mrboots2u

Fingers crossed for you


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## coffeechops

Thanks chaps, though it's not a huge problem, just needs a bit more patience to resolve. If I can't get a straight replacement I'll look at it as an excuse to buy more tools - always wanted MAPP brazing kit


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## El carajillo

coffeechops said:


> So, today I finally got al the hydraulics assembled and got to put water pressure into the machine - big day! No electrics yet. Predictably, there were leaks; around the grouphead to group (needs tightening), flowmeter in and output (not sure, thought they were tight enough) but more worryingly, the lower sight tube end fitting turned out to have fractured:
> 
> It looks like the standard olive that is sometimes used on fuel and air line's. Is it soldered/brazed on or is it compression?
> 
> What is the O/D & bore of the pipe ? The pipe looks as if it is suffering from "dezincification" you see this on water pipes and brass pipe fittings. (yes I know you have had it in cleaner)
> 
> View attachment 6399
> 
> 
> Boo :-(
> 
> The pipe looks fine, it's the fitting sleeve only that has gone. Not unexpected - this pipe was completely blocked and needed drilling out, so I guess that copper had migrated out of the fitting and weakened it.
> 
> So, I think I may have a source for replacement, but I'm not certain (I've also asked espressotechno). If that doesn't work, then I guess the only options are to replace the ferrule thing at the end of the pipe (silver solder?) or get a complete new pipe made. First thing I really need to know then - what are the pipe-end fittings called, exactly?
> 
> Colin


pipe renewal and olives


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## coffeechops

Thanks El Carajillo but unfortunately this is not an olive, it has a flat rear the cap nut mates with, which is silver-soldered onto the pipe.

I guess I could replace the entire pipe and use olives, though, that's an option I hadn't considered.


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## coffeechops

Duplicate post...


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## coffeechops

An update...

Finally got the pipe through from a site in France: was slightly too long. Grrr. Not worth sending it back... Cue much bashing and careful bending and I made it fit, finally.

In the meantime I'd made up a manifold for a pressure regulator valve so I could slowly apply pressure and see where we got to, and applied water again. More pressure, more leaks, of course! Many of the original low-pressure leaks I'd now fixed (around the boiler, HX, element and group - those were all PTFE gaskets that just needed a couple of days resting to seat and are great now). The connections on top of the boiler, which are orientation sensitive, were too loose and leaked like a sieve; an extra turn on those should sort that. One of the brand new (!) pressure relief valves was leaking at

Bad news though - another bust end cap, this time in the pipe from flowmeter to HX, so a higher pressure area. Currently waiting on Peter at Espresso Underground who thinks he might be able to source from Spain... I'm guessing I've been heavy handed with these fittings.

I've waited this long, can't hurt to wait a little longer!

Some more pics:

Can you see the fracture? Tiny.









Assembled machine, mostly:


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## The Systemic Kid

Fascinating restoration project.


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## Mouse

Nearly there Colin!! She's looking really good!!


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## Yes Row

Colin, missed this till now and looked it up after you mentioning it today. Quite a project but you are cracking on with it a treat, well done. Bet you can not wait to finally fire it up.

Alternatively chuck it in the back of the garage and buy one of the La Mazorcca machines we messed around with at Extract today!


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## coffeechops

Cheers Ollie! La Marzocco - I wish...

C


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## Daren

What happened to this Colin? Did you finish it?


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## El carajillo

Colin if you look up IBERITAL Barcelona, they have a huge spare parts list and those silver solder on olives are on the list. I have found this since my previous post.

If Peter cannot obtain the part contact them and enquire (may be send as one off ) I have some S/S and flux if you only need a small amount.


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## coffeechops

And here I was hoping nobody would notice it has gone quiet... Lisa is just sitting there in the garage gathering dust at the moment.

After a lot of procrastination and delay on the part of the Spanish distributors who Peter was dealing with the second pipe has just failed to materialise - though they say it is still on its way. Peter has been great but he just can't get the part out of them. So, frustratingly I'm no further on.

I've ordered the end caps and I now have a brazing rig and I'll give a repair a go. The caps should be here in a few days. Not brazed/silver soldered for twenty five years ... What could possibly go wrong? 

Many thanks El C, that's a very kind offer. I do have some small amount of flux and silver solder 55 now, hopefully enough to practise on and then do the repair - if I bugger it up I will be in touch!

Colin


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## Daren

It must be so frustrating!

I can't wait to see this finished - and I'm going to pester you until I see the pics and video! You can run but you can't hide


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## coffeechops

Heh, cheers Daren 

I shall not hide when it is working, worry not!

To be honest I almost don't want it to end; I didn't buy it particularly because I needed a new machine, I bought it for the fun of restoring it. I kind of want to keep it being potential, rather than actual... (and I can't afford another machine to restore right now!)


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## espressotechno

You can always try small bore hard nylon tubing with appropriate s/steel compresssion fittings.


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## coffeechops

'Bout time for an update on the (very long) restoration progress...

Blimey, this brazing lark is harder than I remembered! I can do soft-solder joints in my sleep with a low-temp blowtorch, but repeating the same on a brazed joint is NOT easy. I tried some practise joints first. First try:










Not pretty! I'm using MAP gas, 55% AG solder and a home-made hearth. Took about ten tries to get the right combination of heat and soak time to get a decent joint. My final go before attacking the pipe on the coffee machine:










Better  On to the pipe itself. I finally found some end caps that - almost - matched the ones on the machine. Some very gentle machining with a Dremel persuaded them to fit:



















Pretty happy with that, it's very solid and fits snugly. I tweaked it tight and - no leak! And I now have the knowledge and kit to braze any other failures too. Should have done this at the start...

So, I pressure tested cold at 1.5 bar - filled to the brim, so water out the steam arm, and a pressure regulator in-line with the mains inlet. That way, I can check what pressure the safety valve blows at and make sure there are no leaks in the steam valves too - worked really well; safety valve started passing water at about 1.7 bar, and fully open at 1.9 - all good. Input meter matched the regulator meter too, so I feel confident the boiler is protected and safe at ~2bar. A few other slight leaks on the top of the boiler tweaked tighter to close - and on the boiler side everything is tight.

I then wired the pump to a mains switch directly, and pressurised the grouphead side to ~9 bar on the meter - again, all good! There's a very slight leak at the input side to the flowmeter, but almost small enough to ignore. I took it up to 12 bar, and the OPV kicks in as it should.

And that's it, we are, finally, water tight!

(I've already done a little more than that, but I'll save that for a write up tomorrow  )

Cheers,

Colin


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## Mouse

Well done Colin - Great news that it's coming together


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## Pompeyexile

There's hardly a day goes by that I don't visit the forum and have a mooch about reading stuff that whilst much goes way over my head, still fascinates me and I must admit, it's the restoration projects I just love to read most.

The skill and patience of some of you just amazes me and I don't mind admitting leaves me feeling a bit jealous. I enjoy having a tinker and fiddle and would love to have a go at such a project, if only because it may be the only way I will ever be able to afford the step up from my Gaggia Classic. Mind you, knowing what would be a good well used machine to go for alone would send my old head into a spin and as for brazing pipes, as some Brooklyn Mafioso would say......'Forgettaboutit!'

So Colin I can't wait to see the finished beast and more importantly I guess, just how good a cup of Java it can produce.

Oh and for all you restorers out there who have shared your projects big or small with the forum; from those of us who can only dream of replicating such a task, thanks and keep em coming!


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## coffeechops

Thanks for the kind words - it's equally an inspiration and encouragement to know others get enjoyment out of seeing it restored. I have to say one of the reasons for posting on here was to force myself to complete it - harder to give up when it's public!

That said, it really is not very hard. I decided to go for this after I too saw lots of restoration threads, notably on Home Barista, that inspired me. After seeing several, I realised that each bit is in fact pretty easy, that there is lots of support out there, that the mechanics are not at all complex, and a logical and methodical approach will get there in the end. I'm no mechanical genius, far from it - I'm in no way particularly skilled at this sort of stuff. I think anyone could do it and I hope others are inspired to try. I started out with a fairly basic, simple machine that was never going to be a stunner, so no real pressure to make it so; this was practising! Big shout out to Espressotechno (Ian) of this forum in particular (and Peter at Espresso Underground) for helping to find and order parts, too.

So, first up today was fitting the electrics back in. I'm very, very glad I took so many pics of the disassembly - it was pretty easy in fact to get everything back in place.



















And then, after measuring earthing, continuity, checking, double checking and sacrificing the odd chicken it was time to power on for the first time in ten months. Gulp, throw the switch and.....

...

...

...

...

...

It worked!

Power light on; autofill kicked in; pump on; level rises; autofill off; heat... Quite a relief! Up to temp, and pstat works perfectly too:










And after 20 mins of heating up, we have hot water, steam and group water:










Yeehar!

And finally:










It ain't pretty (though it tasted surprisingly OK, though that may simply have been how lungo it was), but IT IS COFFEE!!

Not quite perfect: had fun aligning the steam tap so the steam wand fits under the grouphead without fouling the tray, and there are now a few very small hisses of steam where I disturbed some joints on top of the boiler, but essentially it's all done.

Massively satisfying to get this far.

Colin


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## Daren

Colin - it looks great. It must be so satisfying pulling a shot on it after all the work you've put in to it. Loved following your progress.

How about finishing off with a quick video of it in action?


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## Pompeyexile

Congratulations matey, really chuffed that all your hard work has paid off and you have a machine working as it would have when just out of the box for the cost of buttons, (obviously not including your precious time) compared to the price of a new one and added another goodness knows how many years to it's life.

Also I've got to say it's quite satisfying for us peeping toms to see such a satisfying climax to events too......can I say that?

As Daren says a video would be nice and more on how good a cup it makes.


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## coffeechops

Not quite buttons! I reckon about £850 all-in, including machine purchase, spares, cleaning chemicals, sealants, gaskets and the new tools it made me buy. I doubt I'd make that back if I sold it, but that's not really the point of course. I know how good (or not!) this machine is inside now too. And the second one will be cheaper 

I'll see if I can do a vid once she's got her the rest of her clothes back on...

C


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## Dylan

Really well done Colin, great achievement. Something I really want to do in the future when I don't live in a flat with confined space!

Time to sell it and start the next project


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## coffeechops

Well, after a few (many  ) tries I'm not selling for a good while at least - it makes some superb espresso. I think the worst shot I've had so far has been considerably better than the best I achieved out of the Silvia in five years of trying.

Still struggling to get my head around HX cooling flushes though, especially given the size of the boiler. To get past the spitting from the grouphead stage I need to draw 400ml of water! Not got the recovery time sorted, yet, but I guess pretty minimal. Anyone got any pointers on HX cooling flushes for commercial machines?

As for milk steaming - pfft, don't ask. 10s for two cappas. No chance of me stretching/smoothing in that time...

I'm having a whale of a time! Video when I feel I can produce something that looks as good as it takes.

C


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## Daren

coffeechops said:


> As for milk steaming - pfft, don't ask. 10s for two cappas. No chance of me stretching/smoothing in that time


Good to hear how pleased you are - I have to admit being slightly envious.

How many hole tip has your machine got? Is it interchangeable for something more manageable?


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## Milanski

Amazing stuff! Congrats on getting it working!!


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## coffeechops

Daren said:


> How many hole tip has your machine got? Is it interchangeable for something more manageable?


It's a five-hole tip. Can't see anything obvious out there, espressoparts has replacement five-hole tips, that's it. Need to find the thread type and see if I can replace with another brand I think.

Been practising with water/detergent, getting better but nowhere near right yet....


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## Mrboots2u

Keep going , you'll be a master milk blaster in no time , getting super creamy milk for two cups faster then Usain Bolt


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## Mouse

Colin, I've got the same tip on my Perla and the steam pressure is too powerful for the small amounts of milk that I use.

I've blocked up a couple of holes with the ends of a cocktail stick - It's not the most elegant of solutions but it's done the trick for me.

Let me know if you find any other suitable tip as I'd be interested in one as well


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## coffeechops

I'll keep trying Boots but frankly it's ridiculous - it virtually blows the milk out the jug. More powerful than the Linea I tried a couple of months ago. I'm down at 1.0bar average so don't think it should go too much lower on the boiler either. I thought I was good at milk on the Silvia! Practise, practise, practise I guess...

Cheers Mouse, that's a cracking idea, I'll have to find some plastic cocktail sticks.


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## Mrboots2u

Ok I've not used that machine ,perhaps it is a ill designed tip ...

Block one while up and see how that goes .


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## Pompeyexile

Surely with your soldering skills you could solder a couple of holes up a much neater and more permanant sollution than cocktail sticks. Just a thought mind.


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## coffeechops

Better this morning, still not good. Hmm. I have a sneaking suspicion that I am just plain crap at it.

I will keep trying for a while, then see if cocktail sticks up its chuff works and solder holes up permanently if it does (great idea that, thanks).

C


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## funinacup

coffeechops said:


> It's a five-hole tip.


You can get 4 hole tips for those wands. Look for Wega steam tips as well. Block the middle hole and you'll find it much easier to stretch milk.


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## coffeechops

Thanks, 'nother good idea.

Just wondering if I can shoot anything with a steamgun and a cocktail stick 

(Actually, the word 'cocktail' has given me some painful ideas, maybe I'd best be careful...)


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## Charliej

> Last edited by coffeechops; 3 Minutes Ago at 07:50. Reason: smelling pistake


I would guess so with that last statement


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## Mouse

Pompeyexile said:


> Surely with your soldering skills you could solder a couple of holes up a much neater and more permanant sollution than cocktail sticks. Just a thought mind.


The sticks are fed from the inside of the tip and trimmed flush so you don't see them. I did it as a temporary trial but to be honest they work for me so i've left them in


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