# Profitec 700 water level issue



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

My Profitec has started to misbehave recently with regards to the water level sensor.

For the first 4 months everything worked just fine. When the tank reached the "low level" threshold, the machine would switch off and the green light would remain on.

Recently, what happens is somewhat different. When the sensor detects low level in the tank, the PID flashes and makes a clicking noise, keeps displaying "104" and eventually displays just 000. Worse than that, the pump does not stop and the tank would just run dry if I don't turn off the pump manually.

If there isn't enough to water in the tank and I then turn the machine on, including lifting the lever to turn the pump on) nothing would happen as expected.

So it seems that there is some sort of issue when the sensor goes from "water level OK" to "water level low" status.

I have contacted Bella Barista who have contacted Profitec, but Profitec sent me a new tank guiding rail where the sensor mount is slightly higher. I have installed the new part but, as I expected, no fix.

Anyone seen this happening before? Or any of the experts and more experienced owners could think of anything? I suspect it may be electronics related.

Video here:






Thanks in advance for any feedback / help.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Quick update on this: As per above, Profitec sent me a new water tank rail guide, which did not solve the problem. I've open the machine, checked the connections, and they all seem to be in place (nothing loose). If you had to take a guess, what would you say is at fault? The Gicar controller or the reed sensor? For other Profitec 700 owners in this forum, when you can, could you confirm that your machine just switches off when the water level goes low (instead of what's happening in the video)? Thanks.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Mine just switches off.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

aaroncornish said:


> Mine just switches off.


Thanks. Yeah, mine used to just switch off, and now this nonsense happens... The interesting thing is that, when it happens, if I switch the pump off, it won't switch on again until more water is added to the reservoir. Very bizarre.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

pessutojr said:


> Thanks. Yeah, mine used to just switch off, and now this nonsense happens... The interesting thing is that, when it happens, if I switch the pump off, it won't switch on again until more water is added to the reservoir. Very bizarre.


Are you sure it used to just switch off when you did exactly the same thing you're doing in the Video. Specifically running the shot through an empty group until the tank is empty? Or did you happen to do this once and each time you now try, this happens. It might be worth asking owners with machines the same age or newer to also do EXACTLY the same test you are doing...and see what happens.

I've a suspicion I know what might be going on and ECM might not realise what you are doing, as I am sure they wouldn't expect you to be doing what seems to be going on in the Video.


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

I've bought mine in december 2015, it looks like it's doing the same thing as yours. It's the first time I pay attention to this process. After I refill the tank, it's all back to normal.






That 1.04 also appears when I turn the machine on before starting to alternate between steam and coffee boiler temps. I think it's the firmware of the machine but I'm waiting for a reply from the seller.

Update: as expected, 1.04 is the PID version.

@aaroncornish, could you make a video with your machine just switching off? I want to send both videos to the seller I bought my machine from, maybe he could help us.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

zuluafonu said:


> I've bought mine in december 2015, it looks like it's doing the same thing as yours. It's the first time I pay attention to this process. After I refill the tank, it's all back to normal.


Thank you @DavecUK and @zuluafonu. I am pretty sure that the machine just used to switch off if the water level went below the threshold. It is also interesting that there is someone else out there with the same issue.

To be honest, I kind of prefer if the machine had some sort of alarm when the water level in the tank is getting low. What I don't like is the fact that the pump will just continue running with the tank empty.

It would be great if other owners could do the same test and see what happens to their machines.

The same thing happened this very morning whilst brewing a double shot. In other words, the pump was on with a "loaded" group, and the exact same thing happens. If memory is not failing me, a few months ago I remember pulling a shot and ending up rather upset that the machine turned itself off due to low water.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I personally wonder if it's a rather poor implementation of something I call Last Shot protection. Where the pump will continue to run whilst a shot is being pulled, even when the tank goes past the "empty" level. If when you get the signs of something different with the PID display, you stop the shot, it shouldn't restart again.

The Vesuvius has LSP, but it's well implemented so that people should never realise it's there.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I personally wonder if it's a rather poor implementation of something I call Last Shot protection. Where the pump will continue to run whilst a shot is being pulled, even when the tank goes past the "empty" level. If when you get the signs of something different with the PID display, you stop the shot, it shouldn't restart again.
> 
> The Vesuvius has LSP, but it's well implemented so that people should never realise it's there.


Thanks. I am in conversations with Jordan from Bella Barista, who in turn is dealing with this matter with Profitec/ECM directly. I've provided them with the video, and as per their request photos of where/how the reed sensor sits and pictures of the magnetic widget inside the water tank.

Profitec sent a Water Tank Guiding Rail to me, and the difference is that it has the place to fit the reed sensor slightly higher, which made no change.

I'll keep everyone here posted as soon as I hear back from them, hopefully with a possible solution.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Update: Got an email from Bella Barista today saying that Profitec/ECM will be sending a new Gicar Controller. So, this is somewhat good news. I'll keep you guys posted. Hopefully that will fix the issue.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Update: Profitec via Bella Barista very kindly sent me a new Gicar controller for the Pro 700. I've just replaced it and now the machine works again as intended. Happy days.


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

That's great news! Glad you fixed it! Could you make a video with the machine running out of water from the reservoir, now that is working properly?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

zuluafonu said:


> That's great news! Glad you fixed it! Could you make a video with the machine running out of water from the reservoir, now that is working properly?


Sure. I'll sort something out as soon as I can, most likely over the weekend.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

zuluafonu said:


> That's great news! Glad you fixed it! Could you make a video with the machine running out of water from the reservoir, now that is working properly?


Here it is:






Note that the machine now switches off, and the green light remains on.


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## zuluafonu (Dec 3, 2015)

Thank you!


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