# What makes a good coffee shop menu?



## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

I dream of opening my own coffee house but struggle with ideas for the menu. My problem is I would love to have all sorts of things on the menu - from unusual espresso variations - con pana, macchiato, shakerato etc. along with the most known types of coffee - cappuccino, latte and the likes, and different types of bean to choose from. But how much is too much?

I realise a menu with too many items can be intimidating for the customer, so what would you like to see on menus and would you prefer a lot of choice or simple and compact?


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

I would prefer a limited number of drink offerings but that's just me with more options for the bean types so can select one that will suit my taste or wim and fancy for that day.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Good coffee - espresso and pour over and good food. Being able to offer espresso and, say, V60, Chemex and syphon is work space needed. More workspace equals less space for customers. One place I know which does V60 very well also has syphons but won't offer to make them if they are busy. Another offers syphons all the time but not V60 and/or Chemex - has a double lever machine too. Place is very large though. Wonder if your thoughts are being driven by your heart rather than by economics - good way in some but if the business plan isn't sound, could be a recipe for a painful experience.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Simple - The people who run the business, they need the passion and knowledge (in that order) for coffee & customer service .

Re Menu - I dont like to see loads of options, it cheapens it. I would rather 10 item executed perfectly than 30 half-arsed and inconsistent.

If you believe in the quality of ingredient and preparation then you dont need to sell it in loads of different guises.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

No gimmicks. I always like it when places don't do syrups too.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

That menu sounds too complicated for YOU, the barista! Having several different beans on the espresso machine is going to cause massive headaches with making sure that every beans performs to it's best.

To me it's all about consistency, if you provide a coffee one day and it's great and another day it's terrible then it is no good. I'd say stick to a few variations on milk based drinks and one bean on the espresso machine, and then a few single origins on brewed. And ensure every barista can deliver consistently time after time.


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

You need to visit some of the thriving coffee shops around London or any big city for some ideas..


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Re Menu - I dont like to see loads of options, it cheapens it. I would rather 10 item executed perfectly than 30 half-arsed and inconsistent


Same as a restaurant menu. Do a small number of things well rather than a lot of things badly. If menu has four starters, four mains and four desserts you can generally tell thought has gone into it, everything will be fresh and well prepared. If a menu has 60 things on most of them will be coming out the freezer.


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## dabac (Oct 2, 2013)

I personally like the "minimalistic" coffee places (scandinavian-style) which focus solely on one thing: superb coffee, so no fancy decorations or dozens of varieties. Espresso-based drinks plus max one-two alternatives, aeropress or pour-over for simplicity or Syphon for the wow-effect among the customers (if they are unaccustomed to that sort of thingies in your area).


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## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

aaronb said:


> I'd say stick to a few variations on milk based drinks and one bean on the espresso machine, and then a few single origins on brewed. And ensure every barista can deliver consistently time after time.


Hear hear! As a customer, that is what I would like to see offered. Have an excellent all rounder for your espresso and milk based coffees and then have guest beans on pour over/chemex/drip.

I browsed this article the other month, even though I don't plan on opening a shop. Nothing quite like a cold bucket of reality .... http://www.espressounderground.co.uk/opening%20cafe.html

Best of luck to you


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## mym (Sep 15, 2009)

All the above, plus don't use any faux-italian names!

Venti-Grande Frappuccino etc


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Syrups were how I started off on coffee, and they will bring in custom, so I wouldn't count them out unless you are aiming for a very exclusive connoisseur crowd.

The most important thing for me is consistency across all staff, it has happened time and again to me that I enjoy a coffee place but have one or two bad experiences and that stops me going, the 'risk' of getting an un-skilled barista make a bad coffee means I will just wait until I get home and I can sink it and start again if I mess up.

I'm too british to complain









Edit: just to say, so long as your worst barista is capable of making a 'good' coffee, i wouldn't be put off coming back. When I see coffee going into a dirty portafilter/not enough coffee/ no effort in getting and even tamp I'm unlikely to go back, a basic level of training should ensure none of that happens.

None of this has to do with your menu mind you ^_^


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

I would love to go see different highly regarded coffee shops and see their menus, it is something I'm planning on doing this year, going to coffee shops, checking out their menus, making note of their demographics, and their special offers etc. to get a good idea of what does and doesn't work.

It's not like I'm opening a coffee shop within the next couple months or even years. I have a long, long time for planning and preparation which is simply what I am doing now. I do agree about the menu being too complex creates unnecessary problems - such as in restaurants with quality control.

I definitely am not planning on a starbucks-like menu - I have applied for so many barista jobs in the past and worked in a few of them, non of them have ever been a starbucks, costa or cafe nero. They are just not my thing.

I was just trying to put together a coffee menu today and, well it took me 5 seconds - with the main drinks; espresso, cappuccino, latte, mocha, americano and drips and maybe 2 cold variations. Hence this thread. I love making coffee, don't get me wrong, I just would love to offer a different experience - without intimidating the customer or requiring lots of extra expensive equipment.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Syrups were how I started off on coffee, and they will bring in custom, so I wouldn't count them out unless you are aiming for a very exclusive connoisseur crowd.


I can't think of one 'good' coffee shop off the top of my head that does syrups


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> I can't think of one 'good' coffee shop off the top of my head that does syrups


I think it has been common in many of the ones I have visited.

I will never understand the snobbery (I'm not pointing fingers here, but it strikes me as that) around enjoying a sweet drink. Some people enjoy an espresso, some people enjoy a milky coffee which has a certain sweetness, some people find the taste of coffee too much by itself but find it is lovely complemented with sugar.

It has its roots in people covering up bad coffee with sweet flavoured syrups, drowning out the taste of the coffee. But there is nothing wrong with enjoying a flavoured coffee, and it would annoy the hell out of me if I went to a coffee shop and I couldn't get a syrup because they were too pretentious about their own coffee to offer it (I rarely drink syrups, but i have friends that still do).

As I said before if you are aiming for a connoisseur market then I understand it, but if your market is the general public telling people how to enjoy a drink they are paying for is absurd in my eyes 0_0


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Don't pander to them. Otherwise just get a Starbucks franchise.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Don't pander to them. Otherwise just get a Starbucks franchise.


Turn away business because people have different tastes?

I would say thats a sure fire way to drive your coffee shop into the ground.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I quite like the coffee shops that have a very simple menu such as espresso, then espresso with milk 4 oz, espresso with milk 6oz etc etc, and you then simply ask for the style of milk based drink you want i.e a capa a flat white or a latte

and the size you want it. I always like to see a separate brewed coffee menu as well.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I like cake .......


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Turn away business because people have different tastes?
> 
> I would say thats a sure fire way to drive your coffee shop into the ground.


Many, many new coffee shops seem to be doing just fine without them. Good coffee shouldn't need syrups.


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

I'm not siding with anyone here but I wouldn't mind being a penny behind the guy that owns Costa and they sell syrups


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

so do rave.....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dwalsh1 said:


> I'm not siding with anyone here but I wouldn't mind being a penny behind the guy that owns Costa and they sell syrups


If the goal was making money i wouldn't open a coffee shop


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Good coffee shouldn't need syrups.


This irk's me, its like saying you cant possibly enjoy good coffee if you like syrups, they are so separate that they shouldn't even be on the same premises...

It's not a matter of needing them, at all, its a matter of offering them to people who like the taste. Why can't you offer great coffee and have syrups as well?



> If the goal was making money i wouldn't open a coffee shop


Anyone who dedicates their life and time to a business needs to make a living...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's not unreasonable to draw a distinction. You don't go to a fine dining restaurant and expect to see frozen burgers on the menu because some people like them. People are idiots. People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am kinda in the middle here, I certainly appreciate the finer parts of espresso and love milk based drinks when the milk is perfect, however I certainly appreciate why someone might want to add syrup to coffee in the same way you might like a peppercorn sauce on steak, it just boils down to personal choice. But having served behind the bar in rave and served up a load of coffee at times, it is surprising how many just dont know what a great coffee tastes like and automatically reach for the syrups and how many of these people have changed there taste when given exceptional coffee.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> it is surprising how many just dont know what a great coffee tastes like and automatically reach for the syrups and how many of these people have changed there taste when given exceptional coffee.


If you keep giving them the option they aren't going to learn the difference. Tough love


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

nice, but the purists would say you should not sully espresso with any amount of milk! and I like milk drinks as well as espresso, so should we ban milk as well?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

"People are idiots. People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis." At the same time........?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> If you keep giving them the option they aren't going to learn the difference. Tough love


Not true at all, this was exactly how I came around to good coffee.

Some restaurants wont offer you salt for your food, because the chef is so up his own arse that he wont let you change the flavour. I would never want to eat there, much like I would never want to drink in a coffee chop that takes the same attitude.

I really dont think its right of fair to draw comparisons between the Nazi's/frozen burgers and lump in syrup drinkers with such "idiots", I know you are jesting to an extent, but still.


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

jeebsy said:


> You don't go to a fine dining restaurant and expect to see frozen burgers on the menu because some people like them.[/font]


Nothing wrong with captain birdseye


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

I might not like using soy milk to make a cappa or latte (actually, I hate it) but it would be foolish of me not to stock it. Syrups are just another menu addition, it's also probably one of the most marked up things you sell in a coffee shop.

I certainly wouldn't avoid an establishment because they stocked something I didn't like, I would simply not buy it. I don't think it reflects anything about the quality of a coffee shop.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Some restaurants wont offer you salt for your food, because the chef is so up his own arse that he wont let you change the flavour. I would never want to eat there, much like I would never want to drink in a coffee chop that takes the same attitude.


We're going to disagree on this. Food should be properly seasoned when it comes out the kitchen. If a chef doesn't want seasoning on the table that's fine by me. You're there to eat the food as prepared/cooked by the chef; the chef lives and dies by his seasoning and if it's off then I probably won't be going back.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If every shop pandered to the general public's perception of what a ''good coffeeshop'' is then quality would never improve. Yes you need to make money but stack it high sell-it-cheap isnt good for specialty coffee - the farmers, roasters or shops. Everyone should be charging more , not less


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> If every shop pandered to the general public's perception of what a ''good coffeeshop'' is then quality would never improve. Yes you need to make money but stack it high sell-it-cheap isnt good for specialty coffee - the farmers, roasters or shops. Everyone should be charging more , not less


Is this still about syrup?









I don't want to open "just another coffee shop" I wouldn't bother if I thought it would be. I have some good, unique ideas.


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

garydyke1 said:


> Everyone should be charging more , not less


Gary. Could you explain the above please I'm being a bit of a thicko







. At this rate I'm gonna get my 2000 badge by the end of the night.


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