# Rocket Appartamento brew temperature stability



## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

Hi all,

My Rocket Appartamento is coming up to 2 years old now and I've just noticed something that's concerning me a bit.

The brew temperature of the water appears to be lower than I'd expect. (espresso shots).

I don't have any form of thermometer installed on the machine to give an exact reading but I know it's not as hot as normal because:

1. When drinking my shot it doesn't seem to be as hot

2. When flushing there doesn't seem to be the same level of steam or bubbling from the group head as before

I've tried giving more warm-up time so this morning I left it on for 90 mins before using it.

The first shot seemed OK temperature-wise but the next two were a bit below temperature.

The pressure gauge seems to be OK (between 1 and 1.5 bar and in the green zone on the gauge).

I did my routine detergent backflush cycle on the machine only in the last week.

For water source I only use bottled water as the tap water in my area is very hard and full of lime.

I've also tried not doing a cooling flush between shots but it still doesn't appear to make much difference to the temperature.

Has anyone experienced this kind of thing happening ?

Thanks,

Joe


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What water are you using, shot of label and composition, have you always used the same water, if not what other waters have you used (shot of label and composition).

Is the group hot, you should be able to touch for only fractions of a second, if you can keep your hand on for 1/3 of a second it's probably not hot enough. Is there any pause when lifting the lever and pump running to water coming out after the machine has been left idle for a long time, or after it switches on in the morning and you warm up but don't pull water from the group first.

When you drain the boiler by using the water tap with the machine off....do you still get the same amount of water you did when it was new? I never tested that machine (because AM can kiss my backside), so I don't know how much you should be getting.


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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks DavecUK,

I'll check those suggestions when back home this evening.

I'm using ALDI supermarket water at the moment but had been using Tesco up until a few months ago.

Just worried that there's something in need of a service now on the machine and as I'm in Ireland there will probably not be service technicians for this kind of thing easily available :-(.

I did check the group head with my hand this morning and it seemed very hot (as normal) but will double-check again.

Rgds,

Joe


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Labels and composition find the details on the internet if you have to and link them.


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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

OK, here's the labels from the water I'm currently using (including the mineral composition).

It's actually Tesco - I had forgotten that I got that one recently but up until then it was ALDI water.

I checked the group head again this evening and yes it does appear to be extremely hot to touch - doesn't seem to be an issue there.

Thanks,

Joe


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Stop using that water.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

That waters very hard, going to scale up the machine quickly. If this is the quality of the water you have been using, it probably needs a good descale. The water is as hard as London water I think. Just because it's bottled water doesn't mean it's good for your machine. RO with appropriate TDS improvement is your best bet.


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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

Oh really??

I had no idea it could be that bad.

I had been using Tesco Ashbeck water (it was mentioned on this forum as being good) but then Tesco pulled it from their stores a while ago so I switched to what they had restocked with.

What should I be looking for on the mineral content label then ?

Also, as I've never descaled the machine before any tips on how do I go about that?

Thanks


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/45543-water-for-boilers-amp-manual-brewing/?do=embed


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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

That's great - thank you.

I'm going to have a better look tomorrow at what's on offer in the supermarket.

I never realised that the different bottled waters would have such an impact on the machine.


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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

I came across this on descaling a HX Rocket.

It looks to be a straight-forward process so I'll give it a go over the weekend.

Have you used Dezcal or a similar product or is there a more easily got descaler that's suitable?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

If the scaling is bad you may need to dismantle things. I'm told that some HX machines can be descaled by letting them fully heat up. Turing off and drawing all of the water off with the hot water outlet. The refill with a descaler in the tank. Personally I have my doubts if this will get all of the water out and if it doesn't a lot of similar flushes will be needed to get shut of significant quantities of descaler. The other way is syphoning things out and pouring them in.

As I may have this problem on an HX machine shortly I'd be interested in forum experience from people who have actually done it.

This descaler may be suitable for heavier use and even normal on stainless and copper boilers but *NOT* aluminium or coming into contact with it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004L8V966/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

John

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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks John.

Hopefully I won't need to dismantle things as I would find this a bit daunting ?

Let you know how this goes....


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

50-100g citric acid per litre.

1) Pressurise boiler, turn machine off, open hot water tap to drain. 2) Turn machine on and let it refill the boiler with the acid solution (might have to turn the machine off for 10-20 seconds to give the pump a rest if it's a vibe pump). 3) Bring up to full pressure again and turn it off. Leave it for a few hours return and repeat the first two steps but with fresh water instead of the acid solution until no taste of acid remains.

Be careful not to splash the chrome or steel as you're draining and if you do make sure to wipe it away (probably best with a damp cloth).

You'll probably want to descale the brew path too so run descaler through the group a few times and flush with water again until no taste remains.

I've syphoned off water from the brew boiler of a db because I couldn't be arsed flushing for hours to finally get rid of the descaler and I didn't think it really made sense to try to get descaler into a boiler that was full of water anyway. It isn't necessary at all to do it with the service boiler because flushing is so easy; a HX is basically a service boiler with a pipe running through it so I don't see why it would be different.


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## JoeF (Jul 18, 2017)

Thanks Rob1 for those steps,

Ok, I've just completed the descaling operation now (using Volvic water).

It was very straight forward really - just takes some time and a lot of water!

So I used 1 x 1.5L bottle with the descaler (a citric acid based one) - my boiler is 1.8L capacity.

After leaving it do its work for between 1-2 hours and also flushing it through the group head several times I then did a total of 3 x clean flush cycles (3 x 1.5L bottles) to flush out the system until it was free from discolouration and acidic taste.

See image below of what came out of the initial descaler purge from the boiler - is this just the reaction of the descaler with the brass and copper?

It's early days still but I'v just pulled my first 2 shots since the descale and they were definitely nice and hot and tasted good - no below temperature shots so far.

How often should you descale anyway?

My typical use would be around 3-4 shots daily.

Regards,

Joe


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

It's copper oxide dissolved in the solution.

Descale as little as possible based on the hardness of your water. I don't descale at all because my water just has bicarb in it. You didn't need to use volvic for the descale and flushing but at least you didn't waste about 20 litres flushing a brew boiler.


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