# Sage BE Setup



## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Afternoon everyone - so I've spent the past two hours giving my whole setup a much needed deep clean, descale & restock. Perfect timing for a new bag of beans to arrive from my local roaster.

I've had my Sage Barista Express around two years now and after much trial and error I feel things are where I want them to be with my espresso extraction. The dream, one day, is to get myself a La Marzocco however that's some time away and I'll enjoy using my Sage in the meantime.

To assist with my home setup I use a Motta 53mm leveller/distributor, Motta 53mm tamper, Acaia Lunar scales (only had these since Apr 19 and wow these are amazing) and my primary bean of choice is the 200 Degrees Brazilian Love Affair.

Hopefully the photograph is showing okay.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Tidy little set up m8 enjoy


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Nice setup mate - very similar to mine except I use a separate grinder. Out of interest, where did you pick up the Motta gear? I've been looking around for it everywhere (especially the leveller).

edit: also, a fine choice on the chocolate cigars in the back!


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Cooffe said:


> Nice setup mate - very similar to mine except I use a separate grinder. Out of interest, where did you pick up the Motta gear? I've been looking around for it everywhere (especially the leveller).
> 
> edit: also, a fine choice on the chocolate cigars in the back!


 What grinder do you use? I'm thinking about getting a stand-alone as starting to get into brewing.

It took me a while to find the leveller and ended up getting it from a German eBay seller. I noticed Bella Barista had some 53mm for sale however at the time were shown out of stock hence the German eBay.

I got the tamper, as a gift, from 200 Degrees online shop. I've recently bought another 53mm Motta tamper as a gift for someone and got this from Bella Barista - excellent service and postage.

A recent visit to Waitrose for some emergency beans is to thank for the chocolate cigars - hardest part is not eating them every time I walk past!


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> What grinder do you use? I'm thinking about getting a stand-alone as starting to get into brewing.
> 
> It took me a while to find the leveller and ended up getting it from a German eBay seller. I noticed Bella Barista had some 53mm for sale however at the time were shown out of stock hence the German eBay.
> 
> ...


 Thanks - I've just ordered the 53mm Motta leveller! Will have to look into getting the tamper next month.

The grinder I use is the Atom 60E (picked it up off this forum), however it's not the best for single dosing if you're that way inclined.

There's a 200 Degrees local to me that I was planning on popping into this weekend so I should have a look when I'm there! Also, the chocolate cigars are immense for a couple of quid!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cooffe said:


> Thanks - I've just ordered the 53mm Motta leveller! Will have to look into getting the tamper next month. ﻿
> 
> The grinder I use is the Atom 60E (picked it up off this forum), however it's not the best for single dosing if you're that way inclined.
> 
> There's a 200 Degrees local to me that I was planning on popping into this weekend so I should have a look when I'm there! Also, the chocolate cigars are immense for a couple of quid! ﻿


 You might not need the tamper. Set the levelling tool to Razor depth, use a couple of taps to settle the dose in the PF (best to grind into a cup/small jug first, then transfer to PF), then just use the levelling tool & pull the shot. See how you go.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

MWJB said:


> You might not need the tamper. Set the levelling tool to Razor depth, use a couple of taps to settle the dose in the PF (best to grind into a cup/small jug first, then transfer to PF), then just use the levelling tool & pull the shot. See how you go.


 Cheers for the advice - I have also got a knock of LWW tumbler so I'll give it a go with this. Will let you know how I get on!


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

looks great, I had a barista express for a few months, was a great wee machine. Sold it and regret replaced it with the sage smart grinder and duo temp pro. pretty much the same setup.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Cooffe said:


> Thanks - I've just ordered the 53mm Motta leveller! Will have to look into getting the tamper next month.
> 
> The grinder I use is the Atom 60E (picked it up off this forum), however it's not the best for single dosing if you're that way inclined.
> 
> There's a 200 Degrees local to me that I was planning on popping into this weekend so I should have a look when I'm there! Also, the chocolate cigars are immense for a couple of quid!


 What did you think to 200 Degrees? Hope the leveller has arrived and it's working well for your routine?


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> What did you think to 200 Degrees? Hope the leveller has arrived and it's working well for your routine?


 Didn't manage to get there this weekend gone, however am going next weekend! Leveller is OK but I am still getting issues with channeling... I know all it really does is make the puck pretty, but was hoping for something. Not quite sure on what to do to combat it (I get it with/without WDT), apart from a Naked Portafilter and check the shot via that method.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cooffe said:


> Didn't manage to get there this weekend gone, however am going next weekend! Leveller is OK but I am still getting issues with channeling... I know all it really does is make the puck pretty, but was hoping for something. Not quite sure on what to do to combat it (I get it with/without WDT), apart from a Naked Portafilter and check the shot via that method.


 Are you grinding into the PF? If so, don't. Grind into a cup/jug then (after checking dose weight is 18.0g) dump this into the PF basket, a funnel is useful here to avoid spillage. Then a couple of downward taps will fill voids in the basket, a couple of side taps to level some, then use the tool.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Are you grinding into the PF? If so, don't. Grind into a cup/jug then (after checking dose weight is 18.0g) dump this into the PF basket, a funnel is useful here to avoid spillage. Then a couple of downward taps will fill voids in the basket, a couple of side taps to level some, then use the tool.


 Yeah I am, stupidly enough. I guess the Atom just isn't up to dispensing straight into the PF. I'll give what you say a go with my cheapo knock off LWW tumbler and see if it gets any better. How do you know the correct depth for the grooming tool btw - is there a method?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cooffe said:


> Yeah I am, stupidly enough. I guess the Atom just isn't up to dispensing straight into the PF. I'll give what you say a go with my cheapo knock off LWW tumbler and see if it gets any better. How do you know the correct depth for the grooming tool btw - is there a method?


 I set mine to the depth of the silver band on the Sage tamper, or the depth of the Razor tool.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

MWJB said:


> I set mine to the depth of the silver band on the Sage tamper, or the depth of the Razor tool.


 So I ran my daily shot after work, put it into my knock off LWW tumbler and it came out fine (also have some new beans so not sure if that's anything). It's crazy how much one addition to your workflow can change the whole shot. Cheers for the help!


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

I bought the Motta 53mm levelling tool today but I can't screw it in enough to get the depth of the razor tool (I'm using the Sage BE). Screwed in fully, it's 2mm too low. How did you get your Motta to work with the large Sage BE basket?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Java_avaJ said:


> I bought the Motta 53mm levelling tool today but I can't screw it in enough to get the depth of the razor tool (I'm using the Sage BE). Screwed in fully, it's 2mm too low. How did you get your Motta to work with the large Sage BE basket?


 Try using 16g of coffee?


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

Java_avaJ said:


> I bought the Motta 53mm levelling tool today but I can't screw it in enough to get the depth of the razor tool (I'm using the Sage BE). Screwed in fully, it's 2mm too low. How did you get your Motta to work with the large Sage BE basket?


 I use 17g dose and didn't have an issue setting up the leveller. When I can I'll measure how far I have it set up.


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Try using 16g of coffee?


 I can just about get 16g but it is 2mm lower than the razor tool depth and very compacted which is pushing up the extraction time.


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> I use 17g dose and didn't have an issue setting up the leveller. When I can I'll measure how far I have it set up.


 That'd be useful, thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Java_avaJ said:


> I can just about get 16g but it is 2mm lower than the razor tool depth and very compacted which is pushing up the extraction time.


 What is the extraction time?


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

MWJB said:


> What is the extraction time?


 8 to 9 seconds pre-extraction then 28 to 32 secs extraction, and I am getting 17g of coffee in the basket. Those figures don't seem bad even though the puck is shallower than the razor tool. What do think?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

40s total (because the liquid dripping at 8-9s is dark, coffee coloured, it is already extracted by this point) isn't a sign that anything is wrong. But, we need to know the weight of coffee in the cup?


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

Weight in the cup is 36g from the 17g coffee, actually last time it was a bit more, about 40g but I reprogrammed the single shot on the Sage BE to a little less, I was aiming for a 1:2 ratio but overshot


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you are overshooting at 40s, you will have to grind a little finer, the shot may therefore take a bit longer.

However, I probably wouldn't worry about overshooting by 3g if the shot tastes good.


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

I must say it does taste good, I guess I was worrying that coffee being lower in the basket than Sage think it should be might cause other problems. I guess I should stop worrying if it tastes good and the time isn't out of the ordinary


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## Java_avaJ (Jun 9, 2019)

I notice, @MWJB, you say you set the Motta 53mm to the depth of the razor tool, how do you manage to screw in the Motta to be that low, using my fingers I can't get near that. Using a grip for opening jars I can get an extra millimetre but I'm still, as I've said, 2mm shy of the razor tool depth.

I'm measuring from the black plastic motta cap to the high point on the clover, since that's the depth, sorry to state the obvious ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I have a different manufacture tool, if that's the shallowest you can get then that's what you will have to use, with a little less coffee dose.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

So just had a measure and from the black edge to the highest point on the polished metal its 8mm on my setup. I use 17g of coffee beans for reference however this chases depending on what beans I have on the go. Hope this helps.

I quickly stopped following what Sage advised with the razor tool height.


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## AlanB1976 (Jul 16, 2019)

THR_Crema, how do you find the integrated grinder? I read a lot of places saying not to use an integrated grinder but, for me just about to start up and not wanting to sell the house to do so, am hoping that it is sufficient to get a decent grind (maybe not the best but I doubt my immature palette would taste the difference). I'm currently looking at the Sage Barista Pro. Similar to the express but with LCD panel and quicker heat up times.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

AlanB1976 said:


> THR_Crema, how do you find the integrated grinder? I read a lot of places saying not to use an integrated grinder but, for me just about to start up and not wanting to sell the house to do so, am hoping that it is sufficient to get a decent grind (maybe not the best but I doubt my immature palette would taste the difference). I'm currently looking at the Sage Barista Pro. Similar to the express but with LCD panel and quicker heat up times.


 Breville has stated: the "integrated grinder", the "Smart Grinder Pro", and the "Dose Control Pro" all have the same grind capabilities, same burrs, same degrees of setting. Grinding performance is the same, regardless of the different features (&/or amounts of plastic) in the three grinder models.


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## AlanB1976 (Jul 16, 2019)

Ok. Thanks for the info.

However, not having used any of them..... Would they do fine for a non-connoisseur palette or would I get frustrated quickly (i.e. Can they do a good shot - not the best - but good) ?


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

AlanB1976 said:


> THR_Crema, how do you find the integrated grinder? I read a lot of places saying not to use an integrated grinder but, for me just about to start up and not wanting to sell the house to do so, am hoping that it is sufficient to get a decent grind (maybe not the best but I doubt my immature palette would taste the difference). I'm currently looking at the Sage Barista Pro. Similar to the express but with LCD panel and quicker heat up times.


 I've had the machine just over two years and think it's the best in class for price and features. The grinder suffers from a little retention however not much. It grinds very well and if you spend the time learning to dial in the beans you'll make a great espresso.

I found it very frustrating making coffee at first but over time I've learnt how the machine performs and what to change.

I fully recommend it and going on a Barista course. Loads of useful information on here.

What do you want from a coffee machine? What's your budget?


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## AlanB1976 (Jul 16, 2019)

THR_Crema said:


> What﻿ do﻿ you want from a coffee m﻿achine? What's your﻿ bud﻿g﻿﻿e﻿t?


 Part of the problem, I don't really know. ? I know I want coffee shop tasting drinks (at least close to). I know I'm interested in learning more about making coffees but I don't know if that is just because it's interesting now that it's new or if it will be something that will last. So I want something that I can learn and play with but will also cover the grounds of being simple enough and not overly expensive to warrant if I lose the interest in exploring the brewing world but still want to make good coffees without too much hassle.....hence looking at the sage machines cause they are in the affordable range and are semi-auto.

My budget is 800, which I know isn't that much in the espresso world but I'll have to make it work. If the bug hits, I'll look at saving up for an upgrade.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

AlanB1976 said:


> Part of the problem, I don't really know. ? I know I want coffee shop tasting drinks (at least close to). I know I'm interested in learning more about making coffees but I don't know if that is just because it's interesting now that it's new or if it will be something that will last. So I want something that I can learn and play with but will also cover the grounds of being simple enough and not overly expensive to warrant if I lose the interest in exploring the brewing world but still want to make good coffees without too much hassle.....hence looking at the sage machines cause they are in the affordable range and are semi-auto.
> 
> My budget is 800, which I know isn't that much in the espresso world but I'll have to make it work. If the bug hits, I'll look at saving up for an upgrade.


 It certainly sounds like you are on the right track with a Sage, when I read your comments.

However, that said, also within your budget is the possibility of a manual espresso maker. Is that something you'd be interested in? A well-made & well-regarded manual device (e.g., Cafelat Robot or Flair Espresso lever devices) will cost you less and might also have better resale value than the used Barista, should you decide (after a bit of brewing) you really don't want to pursue the espresso path. With a good handgrinder (MBK) and a Robot or Flair, you are looking at maybe £300 (to £400) for everything you need. Add a cheap scale for weighing your beans and your shot, you are well set up for a very tasty espresso.

A manual espresso maker, with a pressure gauge, is an excellent way to learn how to play with pressure and temperature (as well as brew ratios & extraction timing & "dialling in"). It gives you a great understanding of all aspects of espresso brewing.


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## AlanB1976 (Jul 16, 2019)

I find the manual machines a bit intimidating. Also don't look the part in my mind. But thanks for the suggestions. It's really good to know what else is out there that the more experienced recommend.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

AlanB1976 said:


> Part of the problem, I don't really know. ? I know I want coffee shop tasting drinks (at least close to). I know I'm interested in learning more about making coffees but I don't know if that is just because it's interesting now that it's new or if it will be something that will last. So I want something that I can learn and play with but will also cover the grounds of being simple enough and not overly expensive to warrant if I lose the interest in exploring the brewing world but still want to make good coffees without too much hassle.....hence looking at the sage machines cause they are in the affordable range and are semi-auto.
> 
> My budget is 800, which I know isn't that much in the espresso world but I'll have to make it work. If the bug hits, I'll look at saving up for an upgrade.


 Do you live near to Bella Barista in Northampton? They will take the time to show you all the different types of machines and match you to one (they don't stock Sage).

£800 is more than enough if you want the Sage Barista Express (Do you want the previous model with the espresso pressure dial?).

Get a decent set of scales - I went for the Acaia Lunar. If you then choose to sell everything you won't lose much on these scales & your machine will still fetch a decent price.

Keep us posted on your decision(s). You'll build your setup over time so don't worry too much about trying to get everything straight away.


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## AlanB1976 (Jul 16, 2019)

Unfortunately not close. I'm Bristol side. I have emailed sage to find out anywhere local I can go to see their models. I'm not sure of any other places I can go to see other models. I suppose something Google can help me with.

At ecookshop the sage barista pro, touch and dual boiler are all £700 (one of my other posts in the machines section) so within price range. I'm trying to find out what makes the dual boiler so good, apart from being able to brew and steam at the same time as, with the others amazing switch times, it's not something that would really make a difference to me and I would prefer to save the money I would need on an additional grinder if that is the only difference. So, now leaning to a touch as I believe it can do everything the express/Pro can do plus have auto frothing wand in case I'm being lazy.


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## THR_Crema (May 20, 2019)

AlanB1976 said:


> Unfortunately not close. I'm Bristol side. I have emailed sage to find out anywhere local I can go to see their models. I'm not sure of any other places I can go to see other models. I suppose something Google can help me with.
> 
> At ecookshop the sage barista pro, touch and dual boiler are all £700 (one of my other posts in the machines section) so within price range. I'm trying to find out what makes the dual boiler so good, apart from being able to brew and steam at the same time as, with the others amazing switch times, it's not something that would really make a difference to me and I would prefer to save the money I would need on an additional grinder if that is the only difference. So, now leaning to a touch as I believe it can do everything the express/Pro can do plus have auto frothing wand in case I'm being lazy.


 John Lewis stock Sage and sometimes they have someone making coffee's with different machines.

I personally prefer the analogue look of the pressure dial compared to the updated touch screen.

If you look on YouTube there are some very good videos looking at both machines. The auto milk is good however it won't get it textured how you want it for latte art.






I quite like Seattle Coffee Gear reviews and they love the Sage BE. Another good one is Whole Latte Love (All in my opinion).

The next level up machine, as you say has the dual boiler, so the benefit of extracting and steaming at the same time - I think the steam is a bit more powerful as well.

I love my machine and managed, through having a good setup, to make 3 latte's this morning taking roughly 10mins. While I extract it gives me time to clean up and prepare my next portafilter (I bought a second one recently and this has massively helped speed up my process).


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## Wisey (May 17, 2020)

> On 21/07/2019 at 11:08, THR_Crema said:
> 
> John Lewis stock Sage and sometimes they have someone making coffee's with different machines.
> 
> ...


 Hi I'm having the same discussion in my head - do I go for the BE or the pro? More grind settings On the pro but it's the same grinder, reviews say the grinder on the BE lets it down, so is the grinder not good enough on either machine? Or like the last guy for a beginner like me would it not make that much of a difference?

it seems most people have the BE rather than the pro, is this telling me something?


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## AlanB1976 (Jul 16, 2019)

I think most have the BE as it is older than the pro and you can still get it cheaper on discounts.

I don't have either (got the dual boiler) but I can't see a reason to go with the BE and not the Pro. The pro has better grinding settings and faster extracting/steaming swapping times. The pressure gauge does look nice but I've stopped using mine all together. Just go by weight and you will slowly learn to identify by the flow whether it's too fast or slow.


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