# First shots of REAL coffee



## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

So I have taken the plunge into real coffee and got myself a mazzer SJ .............

Goodbye bitter pre-ground and hello sweet chocolatey nutty fresh ground!

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yay! Congratulations , it will give you great fresh coffee !


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

It already has! Bit wired now though as had 3 doubles and one with the guy who sold it to me!

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brettyboo said:


> It already has! Bit wired now though as had 3 doubles and one with the guy who sold it to me!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk - now Free


Yay! Massive caffeine hit and then massive caffeine come down !


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

I had best keep going then........I keep telling myself I've got dial it in and throwing half decent shots away is a sin!

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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Good work Boo!

If its only a half decent shot I keep em and have them with milk. I chuck the awful ones away (or give them to the in-laws







). The decent shots are straight espressos for me.

When your naked PF arrives you'll start to see how good your tamping and distribution skills are. When you combine it with your SJ you'll be pulling great shots every time.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Straight espressos for me too although I like milk based early morning. Going back to grinder, I seem to have found a good setting for espresso grind, now, I have a filter machine in office so is grinder consistent I.e. if I change to coarser grind then back to espresso, will the setting be the same? Does this make sense?

Buzzing......


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Also just want to say a big THANKYOU to coffeechap for his help, a true gent!

Buzzing......


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Daren said:


> Good work Boo!
> 
> If its only a half decent shot I keep em and have them with milk. I chuck the awful ones away (or give them to the in-laws
> 
> ...


Yes, my first go with a naked PF was fairly horrific and messy. It certainly lets you know where you're going wrong.

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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

So they are a good training tool? And bigger cups needed!

Buzzing......


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Brettyboo said:


> if I change to coarser grind then back to espresso, will the setting be the same? Does this make sense?


Unlikely. Best use your SJ for espresso grind. No grinder can grind well espresso and filter. A naked portafilter is a good tool for exposing errors in technique.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The sj will do both and will get back to the setting you had it on before, I find about a third turn of the adjustment collar will puts it out to filter coffee consistency, remember you need to make sure all grinds are out before changing the grind settings.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Ive bought a second ( cheaper ) burr grinder for filter and cafetiere rather than disturb the espresso setting on my main grinder .


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd generally agree a second grinder for filter like a Porlex. However if anyone is going to know the SJ it's Mr Chap

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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It's just a very easy adjustment, but you will need to mark your espresso setting to get back to it..


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Obviously I can't say about this topic as I have owned a grinder for all of 7 hrs! But the SJ is a commercial tool so all I can say is that if I had a coffee shop and offered filter and espresso and I bought this grinder and payed £600 I would expect it to do both! But like I said I can't really comment!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Usually coffee shops will have specific grinders for each as the big bulk grinders like a ditting or even a santos will grind better for brewed coffee, but the mazzer will do an acceptable job at brewed coffee.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Cool! All I can do is have a fiddle with it (the grinder that is) and see if will do both. But thank you all for your help.....it's a lot more complicated than I thought!!!


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

I don't know if this is good or a bad thing but first shot today was all crema? The colour looked right the taste was ok (maybe a bit bitter compared with the shots the guy I got grinder off pulled) is a standard gaggia cup too small for a double? When I say all crema , I let it settle and 2/3 rds was crema?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brettyboo said:


> I don't know if this is good or a bad thing but first shot today was all crema? The colour looked right the taste was ok (maybe a bit bitter compared with the shots the guy I got grinder off pulled) is a standard gaggia cup too small for a double? When I say all crema , I let it settle and 2/3 rds was crema?


What coffee are you using and how old is it now may I ask ? We're the beans in airtight container or in the hopper over night? It it tastes ok, the no worries . Did you purge your grinder before first shot , there may have been some old grinds left in the burr contributing to the taste of the first shot


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> What coffee are you using and how old is it now may I ask ? We're the beans in airtight container or in the hopper over night? It it tastes ok, the no worries . Did you purge your grinder before first shot , there may have been some old grinds left in the burr contributing to the taste of the first shot


The coffee is a blend the cafe owner has done for himself so I'm not sure what they are but I would imagine they are fresh as he get them in every week, I did leave them in hopper overnight though. I did purge grinder and gave it a clean before first grind........


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brettyboo said:


> The coffee is a blend the cafe owner has done for himself so I'm not sure what they are but I would imagine they are fresh as he get them in every week, I did leave them in hopper overnight though. I did purge grinder and gave it a clean before first grind........


Ok, my first shots tend to be not as good as the next one( being honest ) . I wouldn't be over concerned with too much crema, In itself not an issue, focus on the taste. Bitterness could be down to the grind needing slightly adjusting ,due to different humidity in the beans over night , or just the temp of the extraction being different .


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Bloody hell..................I've a lot to learn!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brettyboo said:


> Bloody hell..................I've a lot to learn!!


Same here mate , im no expert at all. Always stuff to learn. There are lots of variables that can effect taste of your shot . My advice,pull another now see how it is . If still bitter the your temp may be little too high at extraction or if coming out at too slow ( plus 28 Ish seconds for a double ) then coarsen your grind slightly.

Only do one of the above at once. Change one variable ,see what it does, keep the other variables ( dose tamp etc steady ).

Extraction in the end is about achieving a taste you like,what's bitter to you ,may be great for me.

Have you tried seperaing your shot into thirds (3 different glasses as it pulls ) say at 8 second intervals . Give it a go, it helps you understand the favour profiles of the different parts of the shot l


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The crema is probably due to the robusta in the coffee if it is from the coffee shop you got the grinder from


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Well I've ran out of the shops beans and I'm waiting for some to arrive from rave, so I had to get some from Tesco (I know, I know!) but much better results although had to coarsen grind to get any extraction at all!


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Fresh beans arrived, bottomless PF arrived, scales arrived, just technique to sort out now!!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Did the torr arrive?


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Yes it did but not the right one I'm afraid, but still very nice!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Don't forget to let your beans rest for a few days if they are freshly roasted to get the best out of them. They all differ but 7 to 10 days past roasting is what I normally aim for. Others will have differing views and it's very personal. (it does take will power though especially if you don't have any other beans to keep you going)


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

I can't wait!!! I will just have to get some more and let them rest as I'm completely out of coffee!


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Well, couldn't wait, had to tuck in to the beans! Nectar! Torr tamp is a marvel compared to the rubbish I was using and the bottomless PF is weird but looks cool.......


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I bet you peak at your presents at Christmas!

Good to hear it's going well.... Post some pics of your pride and joy


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Yes i do mate! C,mon you've got to remember that tonight was my first, made at home with real fresh beans,ground by me, cup of coffee!

The bottom less PF , I take it that if the brew comes out of it bang in the middle that's good?


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I'd of done exactly the same as you







Congrats on joining the home barista club!

If you got the pour from your bottomless pf converging in the middle of the basket then that is a good pour! My first attempts saw spritzers showering everything in sight!

Did you weigh your ground in and your shot out? What was it?


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Pouring nicely!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Daren said:


> I'd of done exactly the same as you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same for me when using naked PF for the first time. Looks like you are in the right ball park.

I definitely would recommend weighing a dose of beans say 15g if its going into standard basket and then weighing the shot after the pour.

You're looking to have a brew ratio of approx 1.6. So if you're dosing 15g then you should get 24g out in weight in 25-30 secs (i tend to go for 25) . It's just a guide but I found it really useful when starting out. Ultimately be guided by taste.

Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Mini scales on order so should be weighing by weekend!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

It's looking good Boo... That shot looks tasty









How are you getting on with your SJ? Shame we didn't see it in the picture.


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Great pour on the naked PF.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Daren said:


> It's looking good Boo... That shot looks tasty
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SJ is going well, given it a good clean and I'm almost there.......so I've got some scales, weighed 15g in ( less than I've been using I've found) same tamp, and the shot took around 6 secs to appear and it was bang in the middle of the PF but a big blob of crema flew out with a bit of force, went everywhere and had to stop shot....?

Any thoughts? (Morning shot was good though with more grounds same grind and sameish tamp)


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Sounds like a bit of channelling to me.... Imagine a crack in the puck with the water being forced though the crack as it's the path of least resistance. It's going to come out of your basket with some pressure behind it causing the spritzer.

The cause of the channelling could be a number of things.... Repeat tamping, knocking the basket after tamping to name but a few (I'm sure others will chip in with more examples if you need them)

That's the thing with going naked.... It shows up both good and bad dosing/tamping techniques. Keep practising and you'll end up getting it right every time.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Darren's pretty much nail the reasons I think. Perhaps a bit of WDT will help ?


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

A quick youtube search will show you the WTD technique... As Mrboots says - I found it really helped. Having said that I've found (after Coffeechaps suggestion) that nutating and a light tamp works best when using my Torr.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Darren's pretty much nail the reasons I think. Perhaps a bit of WDT will help ?


WDT?

So the pressure is building up then boom! The shot shoots through the cracks in the puck hence the shot firing out of the PF.........


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Ahh you posted while I was posting........off to look at you tube........


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Is it firing out the bottom of the pf? i.e. the basket?


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

WDT - check this out >


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Yep! As per normal shot, first off all starting as normal, then a big dollop of crema/coffee, hits bottom of cup, goes everywhere so stopped shot, not a big deal as its the first time in, say, 30 shots but it was first weighed shot?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brettyboo said:


> WDT?
> 
> So the pressure is building up then boom! The shot shoots through the cracks in the puck hence the shot firing out of the PF.........


wdt - Basically stirring your coffee with something fine to break up any clumps , people use all manner of things . I don't really do it , but could help with the distributing. Even distribution , decreased channeling , better naked of pour. If your tamp or distribution is uneven the coffee will find its way through the parts of least resistance , leading to channeling ,quicker pours etc. Help at all ?

Try youtube , search WDT, the search nutating , different ways of tamping and distributing .

Watching videos is often easier than some plonker like me trying to cack handedly explain something he doesn't do







.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Agree with channelling. I used WDT as I have a Mignon and it tends to clump and that helped loads. I thought a SJ would distribute the grinds and no need for WDT. However I've never used one so couldn't really say for sure. Any SJ owners can confirm?

Are you levelling the grind before tamping NSEW style? Or are you grinding into the PF (in a mound) and then tamping straight onto it.

Also are you weighing the beans before you put them the grinder or are you weighing when they're in the basket?

Sorry for loads of questions.









Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Agree with channelling. I used WDT as I have a Mignon and it tends to clump and that helped loads. I thought a SJ would distribute the grinds and no need for WDT. However I've never used one so couldn't really say for sure. Any SJ owners can confirm?
> 
> Are you levelling the grind before tamping NSEW style? Or are you grinding into the PF (in a mound) and then tamping straight onto it.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about loads of questions, I'm eager to learn!

So usually I dose straight into basket level off with finger and give it a tap with tamper on side of PF, then I tamp (I have learned to back off a bit with the pressure as machine used to choke up) then stick it in the machine and 9 time out of 10 it's ok. 7 times out of 10 it good! With naked PF it usually is bang in centre and I fill gaggia cup up to 3/4 full (but I watch for colour change "blonding")

Tonight I weighed beans to 15 g which I noticed is less than I usually use! Ground as normal, Tamped as per and......disaster! Lol

TBH the torr is a marvel as since I got it this is only the second really bad shot, ok some are a bit bitter as I always tend to over extract ? But the trap base helped me a lot!


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Plus, luckily I'm not too bad at micro foam so I just stick some milk with it!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I wouldn't level with finger then tap , that may be the cause of the uneven distribution. I not sure what tapping after levelling achieves other than disturbing the coffee making the distribution possible uneven .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tap before you level , if your grounds are in a pyramid in the portafilter, then level , the tamp. I've see people tap on the side after tamping etc, at one point it was seen as the right process but personally I don't think many do it now.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Ok , cool I will try that, but I've only had real problems since I started weighing beans, when I was just doing it normally i was getting there? Shall I just stop weighing beans and "go with the flow" ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

That's your choice ! At the end of the day if your happy with the taste don't try and over analyse .

Weighing in and out is a good way of dialling in a new bean or setting some variables when your not happy with the taste your getting .some people are more precise than others in how they achieve the taste they want. no one is right or wrong , there is just good tasting or bad tasting coffee,how you get there is up to you.

Do what you feel gets the results youl like the Taste of. Starting out, weighing the dose is a good way of seeing if you change dose , what happened to the taste . Or if you keep dose constant but change extraction time or dose ,how does that effect the taste,and so on. You may get to a point with your equipment where you can go by eye. You may find that you prefer to be more precise and control the dose each time .

To some degree your equipment and Tastes will dictate a little. My grinder is set to grind by time giving me a dose plus or minus 0.5 g normally . I tend to weigh the the dose if I change the grind or bean, then set it and carry on as normal .


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

For me the key is to get a repeatable process - something I can do each and every time. I can then modify as required. Weighing is the only way to reliably repeat my shots... But as already been said - what works for you is best.

I.M.O... Keep at it... Try the weighing and change your distribution/tamp.

What size are your baskets?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Daren said:


> For me the key is to get a repeatable process - something I can do each and every time. I can then modify as required. Weighing is the only way to reliably repeat my shots... But as already been said - what works for you is best.
> 
> I.M.O... Keep at it... Try the weighing and change your distribution/tamp.
> 
> What size are your baskets?


As Darren says , try same dose ,different tamp . Change one variable see what you like the taste of . I effectively keep my dose constant ish through the grinder I use , Darren does it by weighing .same thing really .


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Tapping after tamping a definite no no IMHO.

It may just be the case that the dose is loads less than you have been putting in there previously.

Is there any way you can weigh the basket and the PF on your sales?

If you do then you can try weighing the empty PF. Zero the scales with it . Grind into the basket till its full, level off and weigh The full pf. This will give you a good idea of the actual weight of the dose in the basket as some grinders retain more than others.

Failing that just up the dose to 16g and see if its nearer where you were before with a full basket.

Gaggia Classic OPV and Silvia steam wand; Eureka Mignon; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR plan 2 convex Tamper


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Ok , I will stick with it as have a lot to learn and tbf I have only got scales today!

I'm going to try mixing the grounds and continue weighing as I want to eventually get it right! I appreciate all your help as I am a bit obsessed by it all!

On another note I was talking to "Coffeechap" the other day and he said there is a forum "get together" in Nottingham" but I can't find thread about it


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Not Nottingham,it's at bella barista in Wellingborough ,Northamptonshire .


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Daren said:


> For me the key is to get a repeatable process - something I can do each and every time. I can then modify as required. Weighing is the only way to reliably repeat my shots... But as already been said - what works for you is best.
> 
> I.M.O... Keep at it... Try the weighing and change your distribution/tamp.
> 
> What size are your baskets?


I'm using the supplied gaggia double basket (non pressurised)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Here you go

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?10080-Coffee-Forums-UK-Meet-the-Members-Day-28-September-2013


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Not Nottingham,it's at bella barista in Wellingborough ,Northamptonshire .


What's it all about?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Meet members,tryout equipment . Bella barista is one other premier retailers of machines in the uk. Glenn ( admin ) has some stuff lined up ,all coffee related ,have a look at the link.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?10080-Coffee-Forums-UK-Meet-the-Members-Day-28-September-2013


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Few people for all over going. Old members , new members , etc. put names to faces, learn some stuff, see and try out the machines they have . For me it's a chance to talk to people face to face, and learn stuff ,as I am a total noob at this coffee thing too.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Few people for all over going. Old members , new members , etc. put names to faces, learn some stuff, see and try out the machines they have . For me it's a chance to talk to people face to face, and learn stuff ,as I am a total noob at this coffee thing too.


Sounds good....but if your a noob then I now feel really Like a total amateur!) I think I will go, as I could learn a lot from talking to people face to face (but I must admit I may be out of my depth a bit!)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'm lucky , people have taught me a lot on here , TSK in person and coffee chap and dfk on the phone great genuine people , who have no other agenda, than helping you make great coffee







. Plus I have a really great cafe run by my local roasters, the baristas there are super enthusiastic , and will talk and exchange ideas , let you pull shots , taste things , so you pick stuff up from them pretty quick . Plus it gave me a level to aspire to for taste etc.


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm in the right place then!!!


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

That's the trouble where I live......there are no "real" coffee shops in my town I have a costa and a (I quote) the best coffee in Derbyshire "coffee lounge" but (and I know I'm new to all this) I genuinely think I make 100% better coffee myself than the "illy" they are knocking out......

I suppose that's the downside of living in the middle of no-where


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Well if you ever come to the Lake District , your welcome for a coffee at mine !


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

I went for a job there a bit ago in Kendal...........


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brettyboo said:


> I went for a job there a bit ago in Kendal...........


Haha ,shame didnt know you before . Kendal is shit for coffee though ,I'm near Lancaster, two great indie cafes owned by same people there . Really worth going to.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I class myself as an enthusiastic neewb like you.... Fortunately I found this forum. The learning curve is steep initially but I got up to speed quickly with help from others on this forum. You sound like your well on the way!

It'll be good to meet you at the members day - We can talk Lambretta's if it gets to much! :sly:


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Daren said:


> I class myself as an enthusiastic neewb like you.... Fortunately I found this forum. The learning curve is steep initially but I got up to speed quickly with help from others on this forum. You sound like your well on the way!
> 
> It'll be good to meet you at the members day - We can talk Lambretta's if it gets to much! :sly:


Hi Darren, same story as you , id pop over and say hi at BB day , although I am a plastic middle aged mod , I have the vinyl but no scooter etc.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hi Darren, same story as you , id pop over and say hi at BB day , although I am a plastic middle aged mod , I have the vinyl but no scooter etc.


Scooter is optional.... All Mods welcome (no dirty rockers though







) Looking forward to meeting you!


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## Brettyboo (Sep 4, 2013)

Daren said:


> Scooter is optional.... All Mods welcome (no dirty rockers though
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep scoot defo optional! It's all about the music and of course..........coffee!


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