# Tamper, Distributor or both?



## JesmondJester

So, being new and poor to this whole piece, I am using terrible equipment when making coffee on my Gaggia New Baby.

I am waiting for my Rancilio steam wand upgrade to arrive and that will certainly help matters.

Next on the list is something to tamp with properly. The machine (second hand) came with the original plastic tamping device which is, as I am sure you know, terrible. The previous owner "invested" in a metal tamper which is 54mm in diameter. Why? No idea.

Doing some research, some people swear by tampers, some use a distributor tool and some people use both. I like the thought of only using a tamper as it strikes me as more traditional.

however those distributor tools look so simple and would remove human error. Every little bit helps when I am desperate for a coffee!

Does it really matter or is it personal choice? If I can afford both should I use both? Should I just learn to use a tamper properly and be done?


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## Drewster

JesmondJester said:


> Does it really matter or is it personal choice? If I can afford both should I use both? Should I just learn to use a tamper properly and be done?


 No, Yes, If you like, OK

HTH

But seriously - Get a (1/2) decent Tamper and see how it goes.
If you want new toys (or ideas for prezzies) then get distributers etc later.


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## JesmondJester

Sounds like a plan. Now, define "half decent".....

A Motta 58.4 for £25?

An ECM for £45?

An Espro for £120?!

An aside, calibrated or not?


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## Drewster

JesmondJester said:


> Sounds like a plan. Now, define "half decent".....
> 
> *A Motta 58.4 for £25?*
> 
> An ECM for £45?
> 
> An Espro for £120?!
> 
> An aside, calibrated or not?


 Sounds decent enough.......


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## Rob1

Anything that's flat and provides a tight fit for the basket. No to calibrated. 58.4 or 58.5. You can probably get cheaper than the motta on ebay or amazon.


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## 24774

JesmondJester said:


> Does it really matter or is it personal choice? If I can afford both should I use both? Should I just learn to use a tamper properly and be done?


 This page gives you what you need. Motta stuff is really good quality for the price:

https://blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/tampers

I like a distribution tool, but it's personal choice. I'd say get the tamper, see how you go. Then spend £20/£30 on a distributor/leveller if you are still curious. There's no definitive answer with the tools, some say they're pointless, others love them. Personally I use one with a palm tamper.


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## JesmondJester

That's super all - thanks.

A Motta does seem to do the trick and I was fairly set but then I went down an insomnia led rabbit hole and before I knew it I was thinking a distributor and calibrated was essential.

glad to have been set straight.


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## allikat

Calibrated isn't essential, having a consistent tamp is. It matters less if you tamp at 10 pounds or 35 so long as you do it roughly the same every time. Calibrated tampers do that for you, but a bit of muscle memory is just as good once you get a set technique.

I recently picked up a distribution tool and here's what I've found using it. Use the same taps to shake things up before you distribute as you would before tamping. Stir the grounds if you like to do that too. Your last steps are running the distributor and optionally tamping. Some folks set the distributor to run low enough to pretty much tamp the puck and don't tamp, others just use it to provide a flat surface to the grounds before tamping. Do what works for you. Distributors don't work out for everyone.


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## JohnC56

Distributors help get a level bed if your tamping skills are a bit off. Level tamp key


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## JesmondJester

allikat said:


> Calibrated isn't essential, having a consistent tamp is. It matters less if you tamp at 10 pounds or 35 so long as you do it roughly the same every time. Calibrated tampers do that for you, but a bit of muscle memory is just as good once you get a set technique.
> 
> I recently picked up a distribution tool and here's what I've found using it. Use the same taps to shake things up before you distribute as you would before tamping. Stir the grounds if you like to do that too. Your last steps are running the distributor and optionally tamping. Some folks set the distributor to run low enough to pretty much tamp the puck and don't tamp, others just use it to provide a flat surface to the grounds before tamping. Do what works for you. Distributors don't work out for everyone.


 Thanks! I think the less stuff I have the better so a tamper it is for right now. Or until the world rights itself and money is able to flow a little more freely.


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## zoglet

Can I ask what kind of coffee you are using? What kind of grinder (if any)? What kind of portafilter? etc etc.

There are many ways you can improve the quality and consistency of your coffee without spending much money at all.

As John suggested, a level tamp is key. On top of that a nice, even, well distibuted grind is really important.

I like the idea of a distributor (haven't used one myself, thought about trying) but a part of me think that if you are still at the start of your journey, make sure you understand and have covered the basics first. I'm not sure a distributor will fix all your problems if, for example, the coffee isn't nicely ground and prepped in the first place.

If your portafilter allows a fill to the brim and tamp to pressure without impacting the shower screen, look up "chicago chop distribution". Someone here recommended it to me and it helped me a lot in the beginning.

I used to grind into a little cup of sorts (you can get dosing cups but I used a plastic picnic cup and it worked fine), give it a good work through with something long and pointy. Someone here recommended pencil-long dissecting pins, which cost little and work well. Otherwise anything like that really, thin chopstick, those pins you use for holding a roast together perhaps?

Once you have gotten rid of any clumping, pop in the portafilter and try and get as even as possible without disturbing too much, As I used the chigo chop, I found little taps on the side of the filter with the knife worked nicely but I know some argue against this. Then I would chop until it looked nice and level, tamp, test, repeat.

Also, be aware that any change in technique takes some time to get used to and become comfortable with so be patient and kind to yourself.

Even after a fair few years, I can't claim to really know what I'm doing. I still have good days and bad days. Also, as I have reduced my coffee intake considerably, a cup or two in the morning only, I'm very aware that there are enough factors in play to vary my results that it isn't worth losing sleep over if I'm not picture perfect with every shot.

All the best with the journey and I'd be happy to know how you get on.


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## Mrboots2u

JesmondJester said:


> So, being new and poor to this whole piece, I am using terrible equipment when making coffee on my Gaggia New Baby.
> 
> I am waiting for my Rancilio steam wand upgrade to arrive and that will certainly help matters.
> 
> Next on the list is something to tamp with properly. The machine (second hand) came with the original plastic tamping device which is, as I am sure you know, terrible. The previous owner "invested" in a metal tamper which is 54mm in diameter. Why? No idea.
> 
> Doing some research, some people swear by tampers, some use a distributor tool and some people use both. I like the thought of only using a tamper as it strikes me as more traditional.
> 
> however those distributor tools look so simple and would remove human error. Every little bit helps when I am desperate for a coffee!
> 
> Does it really matter or is it personal choice? If I can afford both should I use both? Should I just learn to use a tamper properly and be done?


 A distributor will only groom the top part of the coffee, you can use then and no tamp, but they are not magic bullet.

I'd still get the coffee reasonably even in the basket before hand.

Tamper 58.4 is fine.

You are weighing your dose and espresso made?


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## JesmondJester

zoglet said:


> Can I ask what kind of coffee you are using? What kind of grinder (if any)? What kind of portafilter? etc etc.
> 
> There are many ways you can improve the quality and consistency of your coffee without spending much money at all.
> 
> As John suggested, a level tamp is key. On top of that a nice, even, well distibuted grind is really important.
> 
> I like the idea of a distributor (haven't used one myself, thought about trying) but a part of me think that if you are still at the start of your journey, make sure you understand and have covered the basics first. I'm not sure a distributor will fix all your problems if, for example, the coffee isn't nicely ground and prepped in the first place.
> 
> If your portafilter allows a fill to the brim and tamp to pressure without impacting the shower screen, look up "chicago chop distribution". Someone here recommended it to me and it helped me a lot in the beginning.
> 
> I used to grind into a little cup of sorts (you can get dosing cups but I used a plastic picnic cup and it worked fine), give it a good work through with something long and pointy. Someone here recommended pencil-long dissecting pins, which cost little and work well. Otherwise anything like that really, thin chopstick, those pins you use for holding a roast together perhaps?
> 
> Once you have gotten rid of any clumping, pop in the portafilter and try and get as even as possible without disturbing too much, As I used the chigo chop, I found little taps on the side of the filter with the knife worked nicely but I know some argue against this. Then I would chop until it looked nice and level, tamp, test, repeat.
> 
> Also, be aware that any change in technique takes some time to get used to and become comfortable with so be patient and kind to yourself.
> 
> Even after a fair few years, I can't claim to really know what I'm doing. I still have good days and bad days. Also, as I have reduced my coffee intake considerably, a cup or two in the morning only, I'm very aware that there are enough factors in play to vary my results that it isn't worth losing sleep over if I'm not picture perfect with every shot.
> 
> All the best with the journey and I'd be happy to know how you get on.


 So the set up at the moment is Brasilia RR55 grinder, a replacement non pressurised basket (will upgrade to a VST soon), currently getting coffee from Caribe Coffee who I highly recommend.

I am being as careful as I can to get level, clumpless, air pocket-less, well tamped coffee but the tamper is the weak link in my chain at the moment. One firm tamp will produce better results than the two or sometimes three I do now because the tamper isn't big enough!

Hence the question. (Nearly) every coffee I make is better than the last although getting the machine at the sweet spot before pressing go is proving tricky - practice makes perfect I guess!


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## JesmondJester

Mrboots2u said:


> A distributor will only groom the top part of the coffee, you can use then and no tamp, but they are not magic bullet.
> 
> I'd still get the coffee reasonably even in the basket before hand.
> 
> Tamper 58.4 is fine.
> 
> You are weighing your dose and espresso made?


 Thanks for taking the time to reply.

you know, I started weighing the coffee and the espresso but I have stopped weighing the output now.

Reasons:

- I am using kitchen scales which are only accurate to a gram. Fine for cakes, crap for coffee.

- I am sure I need to get my process nailed down before I change too much about time / grind. I know my tamping is well below what is required and as such, changing the grind too much at this point on the basis of a couple of poorly measured grams seems crazy.

My plan is to get a tamper, then some more accurate scales, all the while trying to find the character of the machine so I know when is best to turn on, purge, put the portafilter in, start the flow of water, stop the flow, turn the steam on etc etc.

When I did measure output, I was getting around 40/50g from an 18g dose before things looked too blonde coming out. (I tend to stop at 30 seconds or 25ish if I can see that I have gone to far). I know that is a big ratio window. I am sure it is mainly due to the tamping - occasionally I see channelling or a gap at the edge of the puck. Sometimes the puck would be dry, sometimes a bit claggy (technical term).

One small step at a time, hopefully in the right direction!


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## Mrboots2u

JesmondJester said:


> Thanks for taking the time to reply.
> 
> you know, I started weighing the coffee and the espresso but I have stopped weighing the output now.
> 
> Reasons:
> 
> - I am using kitchen scales which are only accurate to a gram. Fine for cakes, crap for coffee.
> 
> - I am sure I need to get my process nailed down before I change too much about time / grind. I know my tamping is well below what is required and as such, changing the grind too much at this point on the basis of a couple of poorly measured grams seems crazy.
> 
> My plan is to get a tamper, then some more accurate scales, all the while trying to find the character of the machine so I know when is best to turn on, purge, put the portafilter in, start the flow of water, stop the flow, turn the steam on etc etc.
> 
> When I did measure output, I was getting around 40/50g from an 18g dose before things looked too blonde coming out. (I tend to stop at 30 seconds or 25ish if I can see that I have gone to far). I know that is a big ratio window. I am sure it is mainly due to the tamping - occasionally I see channelling or a gap at the edge of the puck. Sometimes the puck would be dry, sometimes a bit claggy (technical term).
> 
> One small step at a time, hopefully in the right direction!


 Weighing your output on decent scales will make a bigger difference than any another bit of gear . 
dose can be to 0.1g espresso to 1 g is fine. 
good luck coffee making


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## Ethical Addictions Coff

Yes it matters, but it is personal choice what you use and how. Getting a good consistent tamp is essential for your coffee extraction.

We're sponsoring forums this month and have an offer on across our whole shop - use code: CFOCT10%

https://eacoffee.co.uk/product-category/home-barista/


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## rogher

Just stumbled on this, so apologies if I seem a little late.

Just to say that I have been using a manual dynamometric tamper like this and it works well (I've little experience of others, though). I believe it gives a consistent press. The pressure can be adjusted by compressing a spring more or less and the depth of tamp is controlled by a wider collar, to ensure a surface parallel to and regular depth from the PF top. Posher ones are available, but appearance (hardwood handle) has little effect on the end result.


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## zoglet

My opinion, from my personal experience (which I hasten to add is neither vast or expert) is that you definitely need to be able to weigh and weigh more accurately, both input and output. Small cheap 0.1 gram precision digital scales will set you back no more than ten or twenty quid. Get some.

A 'consistent' tamp is essential, but how much is arguable less relevant. A distributor can't fix a really poorly filled basket but it definitely simplifies prepping. Since my last post I got one and have to admit, I'm sold. Even though my distribution was pretty consistent, this thing makes setting up a nice level puck for a final gentle tamp a zero effort task. I use it on every shot. I think it has made my shots more consistent.

I borrowed a friend's dynanometric tamper for a couple of weeks and to be honest, I didn't find it that helpful. All I learned from using it was I tamp too hard according to that tamper. I tried to 're-dial in' using it and just wasted a lot of coffee. As long as you aren't going crazy either way, once you know roughly how much to press and can remain pretty consistent, you won't be far wrong. Your 'dial in' will adjust to your tamp as long as you stay consistent.

Knowing what I know now, my order of purchase preference would be:

1. Precision digital scales (20) - If you aren't measuring weights accurately, you cannot tell anything else.

2. Bottomless portfilter (20-30) - Helps establish the quality and consistency of the extraction.

3. Tamper that fits the portafilter really well (20-30) - Helps improve the quality and consistency of the extraction. If (as you suggest) your current tamper doesn't fit the basket at all, this is more important than the portafilter. Honestly the two together is a good choice.

4. Adjustable distributor (that fits the portafilter really well) (20) - Helps improve the quality and consistency of the extraction

These would help you tweak your technique and improve consistency in multiple areas rather than spending the same money on a tamper that (arguably) affects one.

Obviously you can spend much more on each item but if you are just starting out, good budget examples will do the job. Prioritise the list to help in the areas you feel you need to improve.

Distributor is less important than a scale and a well fitting tamper (IMO) but if you can afford to stretch to one, I can only say I enjoy using mine a lot. Some people maintain that with the right distibutor you don't need to tamp. I can see why they say this but I think in the beginning, you still need to have a usable tamper in the tool box before a distributor.

Just remember that if you are dialing in your coffee or your process by tweaking one factor at time, consistency in all the others is an absolute must.

Anyway, that's just my tuppence worth.

Best of luck with whatever you go with!


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## JesmondJester

Thanks Rich and sorry for the delay in replying.

I have invested in a set of scales that measure to 0.01g, an 18g VST ridgeless basket and a Motta 58.4mm tamper.

What an instant improvement it has all made! Consistent weight of coffee, a decent flow through the basket (many more holes and right to the edge of the bottom of the basket) and the tamper is the perfect tool - beautiful and perfect for the task for which it is intended.

These upgrades have already made playing around and dialling in easier. I am just waiting for the Niche I have on order to arrive in February (knew it was worth staying with the same company for ten years for that bonus!) and then....well then I'll have a Gaggia New Baby I bought for £30, an expensive grinder and a decent set of accessories and parts.

time to start looking for a better machine....


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## zoglet

The niche zero looks excellent and i think you have made an excellent long term decision there. I would also have one had i known about them at the time i got my grinder.

In the meantime consider that bottomless portafilter so you can monitor your tamping.

The new gaggia baby looks to have useful upgrades like brass components, not sure if that includes the shower screen holder which i upgraded on my old classic. The little gaggias have limitations due to their small boiler size, I found that upgrading definitely improved my shot to shot consistency, but you definitely did the right thing with a high quality low retention grinder first. The little gaggia will serve you well for a good while, especially once you get to know the heating profile. For thirty quid, no question, an awesome buy! I assume you have a blind filter and do clean regularly also. That is a must to maintain flavour over extended use.

anyway best of luck


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## JesmondJester

zoglet said:


> The niche zero looks excellent and i think you have made an excellent long term decision there. I would also have one had i known about them at the time i got my grinder.
> 
> In the meantime consider that bottomless portafilter so you can monitor your tamping.
> 
> The new gaggia baby looks to have useful upgrades like brass components, not sure if that includes the shower screen holder which i upgraded on my old classic. The little gaggias have limitations due to their small boiler size, I found that upgrading definitely improved my shot to shot consistency, but you definitely did the right thing with a high quality low retention grinder first. The little gaggia will serve you well for a good while, especially once you get to know the heating profile. For thirty quid, no question, an awesome buy! I assume you have a blind filter and do clean regularly also. That is a must to maintain flavour over extended use.
> 
> anyway best of luck


 Thanks!

Niche arrives today just as I finished some maintenance on the Gaggia meaning it doesn't leak steam when brewing! Couple of new gaskets and bolts (£8 total) and it's now running better than ever.

Going to work on my workflow with the new grinder including tamping with a new 58.4mm tamper and see how things go before deciding on a distributor.


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## Jony

I use both.


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## zoglet

JesmondJester said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Niche arrives today just as I finished some maintenance on the Gaggia meaning it doesn't leak steam when brewing! Couple of new gaskets and bolts (£8 total) and it's now running better than ever.
> 
> Going to work on my workflow with the new grinder including tamping with a new 58.4mm tamper and see how things go before deciding on a distributor.


 Do let us know how you got on.


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## urbanbumpkin

I use both. The distributor is just a cheap copy one for approx £15 although it's 58.3mm


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## JesmondJester

Well, after a few weeks of experimenting, I don't think I will splash out on a distributor just yet.

The quality of the Niche grind and the Motta 58.4mm tamper is producing a nice level bed with no channeling and it all seems repeatable.

it shouldn't surprise me the difference that a decent grinder, basket, tamper, set of scales etc. can make to dialling in and producing half decent espresso but it does!


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## 24774

JesmondJester said:


> producing a nice level bed with no channeling and it all seems repeatable.


 Jackpot, don't rock the boat!


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## JesmondJester

CocoLoco said:


> Jackpot, don't rock the boat!


 Oh don't get me wrong, some days I feel like James Hoffman.

Other days I get it so wrong, I feel like a GNER trolley pusher from 1998, pouring 85 degree water from a pressurised thermos onto instant granules in a plastic cup that have been kept 'fresh' by a flimsy foil lid, serving it up with some UHT as an ageing diesel loco chugs past the Komatsu plant in Birtley. In the smoking carriage.

A good workman always thanks his tools. To paraphrase.


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## lake_m

I stopped using the leveler because it was creating spritzing with the E37s. - I have no idea why, perhaps the Motta was too much of a slack fit in the VST basket? I just WDT during which I try to get it evenly distributed, a couple of light taps on the bench and tamp. Perfect.


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