# Chemex Tips - Pulling out fruity notes



## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Been toying with a new Chemex for a week or so and am (mostly) making a beautifully light, clean, but generic tasting cup.

I cant seem to pull the same type of fruity notes that i'm nailing with my espresso set up though. I've been using two beans, a Guatemalan and a Kenyan that when I make espresso with i can nail the prominent Red Apple & Blackcurrant notes respectively. When I brew the same beans in my Chemex, I'm getting a great tasting cup, but nothing that really highlights the flavour profile of the beans I'm using.

I'm using a 6 cup, 21g in, 330ml water at around 96º (Stagg EKG) 45-50g bloom and then 2 pours to finish. Admittedly a little slow at around 4:30 to finish.

What direction would you recommend i take with this? Water temp, Grind, Pour technique?

Thanks, Pablo...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

At 4min 30sec, guessing your brew is over-extracting - tell tale sign is loss of delicate flavour notes. This is where a refractometer comes in really handy.

Try coarsening the grind to bring the total brew time down to around 3min 30sec. Head over to Hasbean website and try the mark II Chemex brew guide. Been using that for several weeks now and much prefer the results.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> At 4min 30sec, guessing your brew is over-extracting - tell tale sign is loss of delicate flavour notes. This is where a refractometer comes in really handy.
> 
> Try coarsening the grind to bring the total brew time down to around 3min 30sec. Head over to Hasbean website and try the mark II Chemex brew guide﻿. Been using that for several weeks now and much prefer the results.


 I normally yank it off at 4:00 with some water still in the cone, trying not to squeeze too much out and only leaving about 200-240ml in the flask. Not really getting bitter notes (which id assume would mean over extraction). Although in saying all that, I'm only about 10-15 brews in. Still green with all this. I wont be messing about with refractometers just yet.

Interesting brew method on that video. Big bloom, and a shorter wait between the last pour. I'm not quite understanding the science and effect on taste of pour timing yet. Lots of differing opinions out there.

I'll coarsen up the grind a tad and have a crack at this method on my next pour. I've been switching back and forth between espresso and coarse settings on my Silenzio grinder though (only single dosing) so i'm sure with the internal exchange happening there might be a bit too much fines sneaking into my pour over grind which might not help with things.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Also your letting the coffee cool to rooms temp ? This helps pull out subtle fruit flavours


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> I normally yank it off at 4:00 with some water still in the cone, trying not to squeeze too much out and only leaving about 200-240ml in the flask. Not really getting bitter notes (which id assume would mean over extraction).


 Don't do this. Brewed coffee ratios assume that the bed absorbs the same amount via gravity each time, this is very consistent if you let it drip out.

Bitter notes mean bitterness, you can get these at any extraction if you try hard enough 

If you're brewing 21g into a beverage of 220g, give or take, you are more likely under-extracting, even if your ground too fine. Until you let the brewer drip out & get a normal ratio, it's going to be very difficult for you to be consistent, or for any one to tell what is wrong with your brews.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> Interesting brew method on that video. Big bloom, and a shorter wait between the last pour. I'm not quite understanding the science and effect on taste of pour timing yet. Lots of differing opinions out there.


 There aren't really differing opinions, people tend to home in on a method based on the grind size, which has a wide tolerance.

So pour regime ties into grind size, the basic target of a good extraction doesn't change greatly.

A few large pours will use a finer grind than lots of little spaced out pours (which will need a coarser grind).

If pouring a large volume of water, quickly you will want to pre-wet the coffee, to stop it floating about whilst the brew water mostly bypasses it into the carafe.

Pulsed pours might not require a specific bloom/pre-wet, especially with a coarse grind & lots of pours.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Also your letting the coffee cool to rooms temp ? This helps pull out subtle fruit flavours


 I like drinking it hot! I do notice that my espresso tastes nicer and opens up different flavour layers as it cools though. I never leave a coffee long enough to go room temp though.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

MWJB said:


> There aren't really differing opinions, people tend to home in on a method based on the grind size, which has a wide tolerance.
> 
> So pour regime ties into grind size, the basic target of a good extraction doesn't change greatly.
> 
> ...


 I'll experiment with some different pour patterns over the next few days.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> I like drinking it hot!


 You won't get the most, flavour-wise, out of the coffee.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> I'll experiment with some different pour patterns over the next few days.


 Don't experiment, brew....methodically.

Stick to a pour regime & brew size, just change grind. Maybe if you tell me how you space those 2 pours, I might dust off my Chemex & give it a go?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pablo El Beano said:


> I like drinking it hot! I do notice that my espresso tastes nicer and opens up different flavour layers as it cools though. I never leave a coffee long enough to go room temp though.


 Let it cool, at least a bit don't drink it hot


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Don't experiment, brew....methodically.
> 
> Stick to a pour regime & brew size, just change grind. Maybe if you tell me how you space those 2 pours, I might dust off my Chemex & give it a go?


 40-50g bloom, wait till about 50 secs - 1min, then 140mm then about 2:20 the remainder, very slowly.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> You won't get the most, flavour-wise, out of the coffee.





Mrboots2u said:


> Let it cool, at least a bit don't drink it hot


 When i say hot, i meant far from room temp. Not quite scalding. Still tweaking. After coarsening my grind, this mornings pour was on point time wise, around 3:20, still not hitting those flavour notes.

On a 330 pour, what would you expect to remain in the cone vs the flask? I've read (James Hoffman) say about 2g of water will remain in the cone for every gram of coffee. Even with my water all through, its more like 3.5g per g for me...


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)




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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What beans/process/roast are you using? As an experiment, try following Hasbean's Mk II recipe with same dose, i.e. 32.5grms and 500grms of water. From that, you should have around 460grms of brewed coffee give or take a few grams.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> 40-50g bloom, wait till about 50 secs - 1min, then 140mm then about 2:20 the remainder, very slowly.


 Why pour very slowly? If you want the flow to slow break up the pour into more pulses.

It may not be possible to pour much faster than 3g/sec without hosing, but your 140 pulses should be done in about 45sec.

3.5g per g of dose seems unfeasibly high. 1.7g to 2.3g more typical (varies with grind size).


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> What beans/process/roast are you using? As an experiment, try following Hasbean's Mk II recipe with same dose, i.e. 32.5grms and 500grms of water. From that, you should have around 460grms of brewed coffee give or take a few grams.


 Ive read that you should go coarser with a higher dose, is that true in most cases?


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

i think I've been chasing my tail a bit with all this. Not locking in certain variables, and to top it off, i'm using a Eureka Silenzio as a single doser (to aid workflow and minimise wastage) and switching back and forth between espresso and filter grind daily. I starting to recognise that the inherent retention and exchange factor (without purging a few g every change) may be causing some inconsistencies in my grind too. I can now see why this is not the best grinder to switch to and from such extreme grinds with. Especially every day.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pablo El Beano said:


> i think I've been chasing my tail a bit with all this. Not locking in certain variables, and to top it off, i'm using a Eureka Silenzio as a single doser (to aid workflow and minimise wastage) and switching back and forth between espresso and filter grind daily. I starting to recognise that the inherent retention and exchange factor (without purging a few g every change) may be causing some inconsistencies in my grind too. I can now see why this is not the best grinder to switch to and from such extreme grinds with. Especially every day.


 There will be some retained grinds there for surem perhaps drop 2 to 3 g in at the coarse setting to blow through this before grinding for your chemex.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Pablo El Beano said:


> Ive read that you should go coarser with a higher dose, is that true in most cases?


 Coarser than what?

If you keep to the same pour regime for differing sized brews, yes. But make life simpler & stick to one brew size until dialled in.

FWIW, I find it easier to make 1 cup brews with a coarse grind, ideally you want a grind setting you don't faff with too much & do fewer pours for a big brew, more pours for small brew.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Just made a Chemex, first one in years. Really quite enjoyed it.

Finer side of drip grind. Lido 1 at 0.63...I'd usually be a quarter of a turn coarser. 0.75 gives me about 15% smaller than 400 Kruve.

20g dose,

40g bloom, stir quickly & leave until 45s

0:45 fill to 180g, starting in a spiral, then straight down middle. Pour ended 1:20, give a little swirl.

1:30 fill to 320g, starting in a spiral, then straight down middle. Pour ended 2:10, give a little swirl.

Dry bed at 2:48, leave 30-40s and remove filter, swirl & pour.

Tasty cup, sweet, Sumatran so not particularly fruity, but still some acidity, sweet spice. About 22% extraction.

So room to go a little coarser, only a shade of dryness in very last sips, would try a couple more coffees before making a major change.

1.85g of water retained per g of coffee.

Hope this helps.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Just made a Chemex, first one in years. Really quite enjoyed it.
> 
> Finer side of drip grind. Lido 1 at 0.63...I'd usually be a quarter of a turn coarser. 0.75 gives me about 15% smaller than 400 Kruve.
> 
> ...


 You are brewing in the flower vase


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> You are brewing in the flower vase


 I know, right? Next time I might remember to take the flowers out first...


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