# Grinders up to £850, is it just Niche?



## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

I am looking for a new grinder to pair with the Vesuvius I hopefully will have soon. Currently I have an old Eureka Mignon so anything would be an upgrade.

I am looking to spend £850, I do have a preference to ease of workflow but ultimately just want the best grinder for the budget. Kitchen space isn't a problem and I am not fussy on looks either.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Does it have to be brand new? £850 is a good amount of money if you are happy to go secondhand.


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

mctrials23 said:


> Does it have to be brand new? £850 is a good amount of money if you are happy to go secondhand.


Happy to go second hand but I as I don't have massive amounts of knowledge I am wary of a "project".

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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

cracked_bean said:


> Happy to go second hand but I as I don't have massive amounts of knowledge I am wary of a "project".
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I wouldn't expect a project at that price. You just get a lot more for your money second hand and most of the grinders that are around that cost second hand will be commercial grade and built like tanks.

I just bought a bit of a project Mythos grinder but all that it needs is some cosmetic work. Beyond that it works perfectly and that was only £300. That was a very good price IMO but I would wager that there are a lot of very good condition second hand commercial grade grinders for sale that would work well.


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## abs (Oct 27, 2016)

I have a top of the range macap mxd xtreme for sale:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48857-for-sale-macap-xtreme/?do=embed


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

With lack of knowledge it is hard to know what is worth what until it is sold if that makes sense. The Mythos looks great, but surely the chance they come up for £300 is low?

Regarding the Macap thank you, but like I said my lack of knowledge hinders me from choosing something.

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## Mr Binks (Mar 21, 2019)

cracked_bean said:


> With lack of knowledge it is hard to know what is worth what until it is sold if that makes sense. The Mythos looks great, but surely the chance they come up for £300 is low?
> 
> Regarding the Macap thank you, but like I said my lack of knowledge hinders me from choosing something.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 The chances of them coming up for £850 is fairly high though.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Buy the Niche and spend all the other stuff on scales, subs, and some posh bits. I have a V and Niche


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

The niche is def a lot of grinder for the money

i upgraded from a SJ and am very happy

initially didn't notice much if any difference in the cup, but as the burrs are breaking in I'm noticing more flavours and depth each day


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Are you planning to keep the Mignon? If no you'd get at least a 100-150 on that i would have thought.

The other option is buy a Niche, you sell that on second hand quite quickly without losing much while waiting for a better second-hand to come up. Thee last Niche sold on here was 415 and that sold very quickly - and you'll be on your way in a few days. ?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I test other grinders but always find myself missing the Niche and its terrific workflow. Just love using it.


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

Jony said:


> Buy the Niche and spend all the other stuff on scales, subs, and some posh bits. I have a V and Niche


 Sorry subs?



Agentb said:


> Are you planning to keep the Mignon? If no you'd get at least a 100-150 on that i would have thought.
> 
> The other option is buy a Niche, you sell that on second hand quite quickly without losing much while waiting for a better second-hand to come up. Thee last Niche sold on here was 415 and that sold very quickly - and you'll be on your way in a few days. ?


 I am thinking of taking the Mignon and Silvia to work as I am pretty much done drinking the current offerings. I do like the idea of getting a Niche for now and a eye out. I am worried about waiting for a second hand deal and using the Mignon in the mean time, punishing the V.



DavecUK said:


> I test other grinders but always find myself missing the Niche and its terrific workflow. Just love using it.


 I think this is really what is drawing me to it. So neat and tidy, and ability to go from espresso to aeropress etc with relative ease.

I am looking forward to having both machines and grinders and to do a Mignon+Siliva, Mignon+V, Niche+Silvia, Niche+V comparison... I really hope I can taste the difference!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

cracked_bean said:


> I am looking forward to having both machines and grinders and to do a Mignon+Siliva, Mignon+V, Niche+Silvia, Niche+V comparison... I really hope I can taste the difference!


 Whereabouts are you based? You might be able to try some other grinders depending on if form folks are nearby to you etc.

@coffeechapmight have a secondhand grinder within your budget and you can know that from him he'll tell you if it needs any work or what the status is etc.

The Niche is a nice grinder but if you're wondering then it doesn't hurt to check...


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I sold my Eureka 75E HS for 550, just for comparison's sake. Love th Niche, but if you've 850, counter space and less complicated usage requirements (e.g. espresso only, not single dosing) then you'd definitely do well to search around before buying a Niche.

That said, niche workflow is very good (for me).


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

jlarkin said:


> Whereabouts are you based? You might be able to try some other grinders depending on if form folks are nearby to you etc.
> 
> @coffeechapmight have a secondhand grinder within your budget and you can know that from him he'll tell you if it needs any work or what the status is etc.
> 
> The Niche is a nice grinder but if you're wondering then it doesn't hurt to check...


 I am Nottingham based. Also the idea of buying from forums is better from me because we all are at least aware. As opposed to random ebay links where you don't know the providence at all.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

That would be a coffee subscription were you get coffee every 2 weeks four weeks 250g or 500G


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

Jony said:


> That would be a coffee subscription were you get coffee every 2 weeks four weeks 250g or 500G


That makes more sense that sandwiches or uboats... amusingly psychologically the budget for beans has its own allocation over the capita expenditure.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am lucky enough to still have 2 grinders, a Mythos Clima Pro and a Niche. They are very different beasts and produce similar but different results. Neither are 100% run in. The Mythos when seasoned, produces the fluffiest mound of grinds imaginable and coupled with the fact the burrs are flat, but mounted at a 45 degree angle means that retention is minimal. Lots of variants available if you have the space and dosh. The downside is that when there is less than about 100 gm in the hopper, the grind quality goes all over the place and it really does affect the shot. If you do not mind having more than 100 gm in the hopper, then that's not a problem.

The Niche is well documented on here for its good and bad points. So, why have two grinders and which one would you keep if you could only have one?

The main purpose of the Niche is to let me do two things. Firstly, swop over to brewed whenever I want to with the absolute minimum of fuss. As much as I LOVE the Mythos (and I have had probably 6 or 7) it is a commercial grinder whereby you cannot swop between beans or brew methods easily (the same can be said though of nearly every grinder, unless it has been built for single doing and even the single dose modified machines only answer retention, not bean swopping).

For that reason and that reason alone, if I could only have one grinder, it would be the Niche. That is not to say I think it is a better grinder. It is because the one thing I have learnt if business and life, is you cannot substitute the ability to be flexible as it gives you choice. So, as much as I hate the Niche when I have to make two shots, I love it if I am swopping beans or brew methods. Imagine it to be your wife.....you put up with her in the love/hate relationship of marriage but it is doubtful you would get rid, unless a real super model came along and swept you off your feet


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

I wanted to say thank you for the write up. It really is greatly appreciated. A lot to think about. I just started the process of dialling in a new bean and the lack of indication on my current system has already annoyed me.

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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

I have owned both and my current Eureka Olympus 75E with Mythos Titanium Burrs walks all over the Niche. Consistency of grind is key for me and the wide flat burrs work great with light to very oily beans. The Niche fell apart on oily beans, actually it was a mess! The Eureka is a 17kg monster commercial grade grinder that is built to last, the Niche by comparison feels like a consumer level bit of kit and I bet they will be burning out in 2-3 years. The Eureka should last 10-15 years and the burrs will last to around 2000Kg worth of coffee before they need changing.

The only reason to buy a Niche IMHO is if you want the single dose workflow, the Eureka is useless at that. It does sadden me the number of members here with exceptional machines and have that Niche thing sitting next to it!

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-olympus-75e-espresso-grinder-with-titanium-burrs-and-short-hopper-white-high-speed.html


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NikonGuy said:


> I have owned both and my current Eureka Olympus 75E with Mythos Titanium Burrs walks all over the Niche. Consistency of grind is key for me and the wide flat burrs work great with light to very oily beans. The Niche fell apart on oily beans, actually it was a mess! The Eureka is a 17kg monster commercial grade grinder that is built to last, the Niche by comparison feels like a consumer level bit of kit and I bet they will be burning out in 2-3 years. The Eureka should last 10-15 years and the burrs will last to around 2000Kg worth of coffee before they need changing.


 They must have added another 500kg wear-ability to those burrs since I reviewed and tested it. The burrs only used to last up to 1500kg. Mind you that's still double the burr life of the Niche.

I think the USA long term test Niche has been running over 2.5 years now, I hope it won't "burn out" or fall apart soon....although it's only ground about 100 kg. I did over volt some too to around 260 or 270V, they seemed OK. *I think a guy on here left one running for 3 days while he was away, it was on a timer (how we laughed), don't think it caught fire or fell apart yet but he should be worried I guess* 

As for the burrs, at my consumption of 1kg a week it means I will have to replace them in 13 years time, fortunately as you seem pretty sure the grinder won't last that long, it won't be an issue I guess <relief>? Of course my one saving grace is purging, I don't have to do that and it saves me 4g+ every coffee, so that's at least 24g a day, or almost 9Kg per year. With my expensive coffee being the equivalent of at least £25 - £30 per kg that's a saving of over £225 per annum...

For more usual users of even 2 doubles a day and 3 at weekends that's 64g per week or 3.3Kg per year and at £25kg that's a saving of £83 per year, so if the grinder gets to even 6 years....it paid for itself.

I dunno, the economics seem clear and having extensively used both grinders, plus many others, I think it's good enough that the argument is compelling to many people *but it's not right for everyone. *I liked the Olympus 75E in my review, and I am glad you are so pleased with the grinder....it's a fine machine. I particularly like the Niche because when testing and especially when pressure profiling:



It allows me to consistently use an exact dose


Consistently change grind comparing one machine/profile to another (without the ballache of trying to use exactly the same weight and mucking about with spatulas to remove coffee)


Was particularly useful when using adaptive profiling on the Crem One 2B LFPP


Super handy when working out some profiles for needle valve profiling


I'm very lazy so the number of walk up success video shots is very high, important when I'm reviewing as I can't be arsed to muck about for ages to get perfect shots


Quickly move to filter/pour over


Small so I can fit multiple machines on the counter


Really easy to dial in


Allows me to use 3 different coffees or more when reviewing with ease as there is no cross contamination and very easy/instant to move the grind level to the correct one for that coffee


Allows me to run 2 or even 3 different machines, some with profiling some not and be able to use the right grind setting for each machine and profile


Super perfect for cupping small samples from the roaster as there is no contamination between samples.


So for me particularly, I absolutely love it but for sure it's not for everyone.....

P.S. A lot of training companies at host used it as did quite a few exhibitors on their stand.....seems very popular with them. I think

P.P.S They even use it in the espresso Vivace Coffee shop in Seattle...sure it's only pulling around 80 shots per day



> The grinder is also whisper quiet. We are using it for our single origin Sidamo Dcaf which is a super star at Vivace. Of course this is a home grinder so no heat controls are in place. So far it handles ten shots/hour quite well with no heat issues however.


 I hope it doesn't fall apart soon

https://espressovivace.com/niche-zero-grinder/


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

"P.S. A lot of training companies at host used it as did quite a few exhibitors on their stand.....seems very popular with them. I think"

Because Niche given them free grinders, why would they not use them?

"P.P.S They even use it in the espresso Vivace Coffee shop in Seattle...sure it's only pulling around 80 shots per day"

There not using one for 80 shots a day, no coffee shop is going to use a Niche daily!! I bet if they were Vivace coffee shop would have to have 5 boxes of backup grinders for when one burns out!

Dave, put your hand on your heart and tell me you think the Niche will last as long as the Eureka?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NikonGuy said:


> There not using one for 80 shots a day, no coffee shop is going to use a Niche!! I bet if they were Vivace coffee shop would have 5 boxes of backup grinders in there store for when one burns out!
> 
> Dave, put your hand on your hart and tell me you think the Niche will last as long as the Eureka?


 Well they use it for 10 shots per hour, opening hours are 6-10pm which is 16 hours per day, so it could be up to 160 shots per day...I simply said 80 to avoid being accused of over egging the pudding. You're right though, it's probably more. *Did you read the link, because they actually are using a Niche in their shop which is quite famous (Schomer and all that).* I suspect quite a few Niches are being used commercially for smaller volumes of speciality coffee use...but it's not designed as a commercial grinder..

I don't think it will last as long as your Eureka, but I believe for domestic use it won't make any difference and at home most people don't pull more than 3 or 4 doubles per day. Or 20 Kg per annum. I've already put over 100kg through one....that's more than 5 years domestic use for most people....and for most home users the burrs will last over 35 years. That's a lot of 3-4g purges isn't it.

I'm just trying to balance opinion with facts as best as I can for a relatively new product to market. It's like comparing this:










to this:










Ohh another being used commercially, naughty naughty because it's definitely not designed to be used commercially!


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

LOL, I think there actually using the Mythos in the middle of the picture!

You always pop up when anything bad is said about Niche, your obviously a forum "Expert" for hire, I just hope there paying you enough!


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I had the 75E HS with titanium burrs for a time. It's very impressive. I also liked that it looks like a Star Wars character.

Now I have a Niche Zero. It's less impressive. I don't love that it looks like a blender.

But the Niche is a "better" grinder for me because it fits my workflow and kitchen better, even if the tradeoff is it being consumer grade and less impressive in the cup.

There's a plethora of criteria we're all evaluating against, only some of those are standardised or comparable product qualities. Some of them are innately personal, right down to 'does my partner like it' or 'would this smash through my flooring into the downstairs flat if i dropped it'.

Is the Niche Zero the best grinder for <=£850? Objectively, no. Is it your best grinder for <=£850? Could be.

All the rest is chaff.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NikonGuy said:


> LOL, I think there actually using the Mythos in the middle of the picture!
> 
> You always pop up when anything bad is said about Niche, your obviously a forum "Expert" for hire, I just hope there paying you enough!


 Attack the ball not the man. It's great to have opinions, we all have them but try and back them up with reasoned cogent discussion. It was OK until you got personal...perhaps because you had no actual facts, just your own opinion and could no longer articulate the discussion well enough, I don't know for sure. I always try to state my position or view using facts rather than attack the other person. I've been polite, I've been fairly respectful to your point of view (even though it wasn't based on any facts) and not accused to you anything including bias. I've even posted links of videos I've done to help you with your lever lubrication.

I would appreciate similar behaviour in return.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

Back to the discussion...

For me it came down to ease of use when changing beans frequently, and changing brew methods. I absolutely loved the Compak E10 & E8s I had but changing beans was an utter pain and created a lot of waste. Stunning coffee though. The Niche came along after I'd bought a Kafatek Monolith conical, which I just can't fault, but I'd most definitely have snapped up a Niche at a quarter of the price!


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

NikonGuy said:


> , the Niche by comparison feels like a consumer level bit of kit and I bet they will be burning out in 2-3 years.
> 
> The only reason to buy a Niche IMHO is if you want the single dose workflow, the Eureka is useless at that. It does sadden me the number of members here with exceptional machines and have that Niche thing sitting next to it!
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-olympus-75e-espresso-grinder-with-titanium-burrs-and-short-hopper-white-high-speed.htmlT


 The Niche feels like a consumer level bit of kit because that is exactly what it is. It was designed and built to comfortably handle domestic levels of use for years to come. I keep an eye on most of the English speaking coffee forums and I've only ever seen two people with problems, one had the motor wired in reverse so his burrs spun the wrong way and the other had I slight thread drift that most people wouldn't even notice if they were using multiple beans ( he had one bean he liked and always used it ). That's it &#8230; two. There's literally thousands of them out in the wild now and a lot of them are eighteen months old. There would be grumblings straight away if there was a quality issue, as there was from hundreds of people when the Sette was released and used early buyers as beta testers.

As Dave says, there was even one guy who accidently left it switched on for days and when he finally got back, it was still working fine.

I'm glad you've found the right grinder for you, but nothing is all things to all men. To say it saddens you to see exceptional machines with the Niche thing next to it is nonsense. The grinder you've got is fine, but if you have that attitude why buy it? There's nothing special, innovative or rare about it. What's the point of you owning it when the Kafatek Monolith flat is out there and is a much better grinder for the domestic environment in every way than your mid range commercial grinder is?


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

cold war kid said:


> The Niche feels like a consumer level bit of kit because that is exactly what it is. It was designed and built to comfortably handle domestic levels of use for years to come. I keep an eye on most of the English speaking coffee forums and I've only ever seen two people with problems, one had the motor wired in reverse so his burrs spun the wrong way and the other had I slight thread drift that most people wouldn't even notice if they were using multiple beans ( he had one bean he liked and always used it ). That's it &#8230; two. There's literally thousands of them out in the wild now and a lot of them are eighteen months old. There would be grumblings straight away if there was a quality issue, as there was from hundreds of people when the Sette was released and used early buyers as beta testers.
> 
> As Dave says, there was even one guy who accidently left it switched on for days and when he finally got back, it was still working fine.
> 
> I'm glad you've found the right grinder for you, but nothing is all things to all men. To say it saddens you to see exceptional machines with the Niche thing next to it is nonsense. The grinder you've got is fine, but if you have that attitude why buy it? There's nothing special, innovative or rare about it. What's the point of you owning it when the Kafatek Monolith flat is out there and is a much better grinder for the domestic environment in every way than your mid range commercial grinder is?


 Thank you for your insight, let me guess any early backer? Anyway funny you should mention the Monolith, I am just deciding which one to purchase ?


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Sorry everybody if I went a bit OTT with regards to Niche, had a really bad day ?

I have left the forum with immediate effect ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The niche is being used for occasional shots in the environments you have stated, please don't try and portray this as a capable commercial grinder it's a good home grinder but this is just plain ridiculous


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## jimmgc51 (Feb 6, 2016)

So I was the guy that left it running for days...

Anyway it did finally give up the ghost last month. It stopped mid grind. I had to flick the power on/off a couple of times to finish it off.

Worked ok the next day but a good story is that after contacting Niche & them knowing the full backstory they offered to fix it for FREE. I was only asked to cover postage to them. So for £15 James from niche replaced the motor/PCB board and re-wired the plug, the same day he received it and sent straight back via DPD.

Now its good as new.. so from a customer service point of view, can't fault them. Especially given it was my error!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

I hope the replacement motors / PCB are available to buy direct from Niche at a reasonable price once warranty periods are expired. This would go a long way to future proof the machines.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

PCB is pretty simple, you can replace components if needed, about the motor and gear set it would be good to have them as spare parts.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Niche offers a lot of easy flexibility. I'm worried  I like @dfk41 post as he summed it up very well and covered commercial grinders with the hopper on. Some get round that by using a tube hopper and a weight. Dose will still vary. What I found working like that with the hopper always with same bean and for a long time not by much eventually but adjustments were still needed. Now and again rather than often initially.

The other aspect is taste. I have used a mildly fruity bean on Niche and obtained that without and dramatic changes to ratio etc. I am using a light roast currently that goes green apple, black current, cocoa. Had some problems as I have never used a bean like this before but the tricky bit is cocoa. Odd really given comments about conical burrs. Mentioned last so if thought of as not prominent no problem but ratio needs to be precise and describing it as cocoa is pushing it a bit for me. I only bought 250g anyway and probable need another as I got a dramatic change last night. I shot though.

Every one reckons on flat big is best for taste. Not bean there - yet. I have used a mazzer mini for weighing in. Grind setting compared with hopper on was rather different to weighing in even with a weight on the beans but that did stop popcorning. The reason for the change is not forcing compacted grinds out of the grind chamber. Went for an electronic mini so I could brush grinds out. People who do this on grinders with a spout do report problems with this. The control board on the mini went awol and have to wonder if that is down to removing the antistatic grid. So maybe it's best to start with a grinder with a doser on and replace it with an octopus funnel - name makes the cheapest easy to find. Then some might need a length of tube to allow a rubber lens hood to be fitted. Next part may depend on the grinder. Bits of beans all over the place so add a cover for the lens hood. Ok but the lens hood gets coated with bits. A weigh keeps them where they should be. It needed a further spin up of the grinder and another use of the brush to match Niche on "retention".

My usual bean which is a tricky one produced pretty firm clumps using the mini hopper on. Weighing in it didn't. Niche doesn't either. So only used the mini hopper on rather briefly with my usual bean. Running burrs in more wouldn't help with these beans.

For me down to how I work Niche needs more care preparing the grinds. It also needed a bit lower dose than I used with the mini. The change when I did that was pretty dramatic for just 1/2g from 14. People can also expect to grind finer and finer as the burrs run in. This area maybe is a bit of a drawback but part of the reason I am aware of it is that it's very easy to set and see where the setting is. Initially taste was rather fierce but that passed pretty quickly as did static. I also get variation when I use a different bean and then go back to my usual oily ones. Not much though and only notice it because of the way I work.

 So lots of choices and some depend on what someone is prepared to do. Having started with a Sage grinder £'s spent on grinders have proved interesting.

John

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