# Londinium lever slipping



## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

I fitted some new Londinium piston seals on my LR in June. No issues to start with but over the last couple of months the lever movement has got quite jerky. Regreasing with Loxeal solves the problem, but it keeps returning after 2-3 weeks. The lever grabs really strongly and then slips and can get quite a violent side to side motion on. I've raised a post on Reiss' support forum and he's advised a few checks, but I thought I'd ask here to see if anybody has any ideas what is going on.

Here is the video of it I made for Reiss:






Seals are in the correct orientation, checked and able to rotate them smoothly. Followed instructions from Reiss on amount of grease to use. Pumped the lever 50 times to remove excess grease (still get some build up in screen after a few shots). Cleaned screen.

Thinking of switching to Cafelat silicone seals to see if that fixes it.

Any ideas?


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi Rob,

Have you somehow managed to shift the spring while putting on the new seals, it sounds like the spring might be rubbing on the sleeve.

If you take the top off can you see if the spring is rubbing, you can use a big flat screwdriver to slightly shift the spring over.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

iroko said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> Have you somehow managed to shift the spring while putting on the new seals, it sounds like the spring might be rubbing on the sleeve.
> 
> If you take the top off can you see if the spring is rubbing, you can use a big flat screwdriver to slightly shift the spring over.


 My LR has always had a bit of a groan and a spring that rubs the sleeve. Maybe that is something to try and sort but not sure that would contribute to this issue?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Bit of an odd one really. I always find that for the first week after a regrease it runs really nicely and then starts to build up a little more friction. Hard to say from the sound but it kind of sounds like it not rubber gripping so as iroko suggests, have a look at the spring position. See if its binding at all at the bottom of the lever where the pivot etc is.


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

You might put this question on the Londinium forum:

https://londiniumespresso.com

Reiss usually takes up these kinds of problems himself. If you're not already a member of the forum, you can join even if you bought your machine second hand.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

mathof said:


> You might put this question on the Londinium forum:
> 
> https://londiniumespresso.com
> 
> Reiss usually takes up these kinds of problems himself. If you're not already a member of the forum, you can join even if you bought your machine second hand.


 I'm on there already, and have a ticket open with Reiss. As usual he's offering good support, and has said the next step should probably be a video call with him. I just wanted to check in with others on here for ideas before I take him up on that.



mctrials23 said:


> Bit of an odd one really. I always find that for the first week after a regrease it runs really nicely and then starts to build up a little more friction. Hard to say from the sound but it kind of sounds like it not rubber gripping so as iroko suggests, have a look at the spring position. See if its binding at all at the bottom of the lever where the pivot etc is.


 Reiss mentioned that some of the noise was probably the spring resonating and to put a blob of grease on the coils where they touch. I did this and it did indeed quiet it down a fair bit. However, 1-2 weeks after greasing I am still developing this jerky motion again so something isn't right.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

mctrials23 said:


> Bit of an odd one really. I always find that for the first week after a regrease it runs really nicely and then starts to build up a little more friction. Hard to say from the sound but it kind of sounds like it not rubber gripping so as iroko suggests, have a look at the spring position. See if its binding at all at the bottom of the lever where the pivot etc is.


 I found an old photo before I swapped the seals that shows where my spring touches the sleeve, you can see the marks on the spring indicated by the red arrows.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Good you took pics, always useful for issues like this.

Hope it works out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

So I switched to Cafelat silicone seals and my troubles are solved. Only put the slightest amount of grease on them when installing as directed by Cafelat and they have performed beautifully for the last few weeks. The lever is once again rising gracefully to the heavens 😃.

Super easy to install and no need to try and pump out excess grease as with the standard ones. What is not to like?


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

@RobW Great news, did you get the blue or the red.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

iroko said:


> @RobW Great news, did you get the blue or the red.


 I got the blue ones, I don't think the red ones are now supposed to be used on these levers. I ordered from here: https://www.cafelatstore.com/products/modern-lever-group-gaskets-kit


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## Dany (Sep 11, 2017)

Robw, did the lever catch stay same or did it change after cafelat seals? After changing black seals its always try and error to get the piston run smoothly again - you are not the only one...

This would be easy solution to stop messing with spring alignment and "greasing".

✌


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

Dany said:


> Robw, did the lever catch stay same or did it change after cafelat seals? After changing black seals its always try and error to get the piston run smoothly again - you are not the only one...
> 
> This would be easy solution to stop messing with spring alignment and "greasing".
> 
> ✌


 No change in catch point as far as I can tell. Seems like a far better solution. The Londinium bottom seal always looks squished totally flat after a short while on my machine, so there is no flare out. No way to know, but possibly that accounts for how jerky it gets. The soft silicone can easily flare out to form a seal without much grease.


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## Dany (Sep 11, 2017)

Thanks for update. Let us know how long the cafelat seal last compared rubber ones. Nothing beats the rubber gasket price compared to other ones.

I usually start to consider changing gasket when the bottom one start to leak - it gets really hard and doesn't seal the pressure anymore. I could change only the bottom one, the top two have more lifespan, but they are relative cheap to I change them all at one.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

Dany said:


> Thanks for update. Let us know how long the cafelat seal last compared rubber ones. Nothing beats the rubber gasket price compared to other ones.
> 
> I usually start to consider changing gasket when the bottom one start to leak - it gets really hard and doesn't seal the pressure anymore. I could change only the bottom one, the top two have more lifespan, but they are relative cheap to I change them all at one.


 £10 a pop isn't that cheap for the Londinium ones. Three Cafelat seals are $18 so even with shipping from the US they are better value. I'm hoping they last longer as well 🤞


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

RobW said:


> ...£10 a pop isn't that cheap for the Londinium ones...


 😵 is that £10 per "each" seal or is that £10 for the "set" ?


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> 😵 is that £10 per "each" seal or is that £10 for the "set" ?


 That's each 😢


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## Dany (Sep 11, 2017)

Hi. You don't have to use the Londinium seals what they are providing just because they claim to be the best. They are also rubber seals and the lifespan compared to alternatives ones are same. The price difference is ridiculous - as you can see. Here is the model that fits and works fine.

https://www.espressoparts.com/lever-piston-gasket

https://espresso-solutions.co.uk/piston-v-gasket700708/

I might consider the cafelat seals if the lifespan increases significantly.

FYI: I have never had shower screen pop out when I changed my portafilter gasket to this alternative one. The portafilter locking position is earlier but that is not big deal.

https://www.espressoparts.com/astoria-lever-group-head-portafilter-gasket-67-x-56-x-6mm

https://espresso-solutions.co.uk/group-head-gasket-66x56x6/


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

RobW said:


> That's each 😢


 Plus £9.60 shipping.


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Norvin said:


> Plus £9.60 shipping.


 Just checked on shipping with Cafelat, so on top of $18 for the 3 seals, they're quoting $35 delivery + whatever VAT, duty and courier cut has to be paid. I ended up buying the complete seal service kit from the L store at £42:15 + VAT, includes group gasket group seals and toggle valve O rings.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

ooow deary me....i had to sit down for a moment after the shocks above ☝....£10 + £9.60 shipping....i think i'm in the wrong business.


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