# Pour too fast



## slystav (Jun 15, 2021)

Hi all, I'm trying to set my parents up with their Gaggia Classic. They have a cheap but quite good burr grinder which gets a very fine and consistent grind.

Problem is the shots are pouring far too fast and coming out watery. I've achieved some good cremas (without using the cheat crema device) but it's just not right. There's not enough body in the shot.

On a double measure in a double basket I'd say it takes about 6 secs to come through, then about another 3 to complete 25ml. I can pour the full double in about 12 seconds.

I've got the grind down as far as it will go and I've tamped as hard as I can. The beans seem good. They're a medium roast medium oil arabica bought locally. Could be Monsoon Malabar.

I'm careful to avoid voids and channelling and clumping in the puck and there's no spraying. The puck is soaking wet when it comes out.

Any ideas please?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

How fresh are the beans roast date ? supermarket beans ? How long opened ? how stored ?

Beans deteriorate very quickly once opened if not kept airtight. They age whether you use them or store them (generally)

Are the burrs in the grinder in good condition and clean ? Can you grind finer ?


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## slystav (Jun 15, 2021)

El carajillo said:


> How fresh are the beans roast date ? supermarket beans ? How long opened ? how stored ?
> 
> Beans deteriorate very quickly once opened if not kept airtight. They age whether you use them or store them (generally)
> 
> Are the burrs in the grinder in good condition and clean ? Can you grind finer ?


 Thanks

I know the beans are a variable and it's a difficult one to pin down. I want to rule out any other issues before I do the deep dive into bean quality.

But basically I think the beans are good, they're local dealer beans, airtight stored, you can get a good crema and we grind and use immediately.

The grind is very fine and consistent and we can't grind finer. The burrs are good.

Could there be any other factors?

How can I confirm the basket is the correct size for example?

I use a standard 7g x 2 in what I believe to be a double basket.

Perhaps it's an aftermarket basket or something and it's too big. Wet puck related perhaps?


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## slystav (Jun 15, 2021)

Also - I've been unable to choke the machine using the finest grind and hardest tamp. That's normally my calibration datum.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Discounting the beans the other factors are--

Fineness of the grind, you say it is set to it's finest, this would seem to indicate it is not suitable for espresso (although it may be sold as such). you should be able to adjust further to 'choke 'the machine= just before the burrs touch.

How are you measuring fineness? by eye/ feel between fingers,

If the basket is a standard Classic double it would be for 16 gms although you may be able add more. A simple check for max fill=fill and tamp, place a small(1 p) coin on the puck and lock into M/ch, remove and check for a depression where the coin was depression / mark = basket over filled, no mark fill OK.

Another possibility.-these machines are set to give 15 bars of pressure at the brew head to enable use of the 'crema basket or crema pin'

This pressure is too high for standard baskets (un less you grind superfine) If the valve has not been adjusted this could be a possible cause.

From what you have said I think the main problem is that the grinder cannot go fine enough and you are under dosing.

What is the make / model of the grinder ? Is the Classic one of the newer machines or an older one?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

slystav said:


> I've been unable to choke the machine using the finest grind and hardest tamp.


 That's your problem. Shots are pouring too fast and are watery as the grind is too coarse. Usual advice is choke the machine and work back but you can't do that due to the grinder limitations. Doesn't sound like you can grind for espresso.

What grinder is it?


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## slystav (Jun 15, 2021)

Thanks guys. I thought the grind was fine enough and consistent enough but perhaps not. It's an entry-level Krups burr grinder which is an obvious culprit, but I wanted to rule out any other factors first.

I judged the grind by eye but I'll examine more closely next time.

The pressure is an interesting point. I read earlier that a higher pressure causes a denser puck and therefore you might imagine a slower flow / improved extraction. On the flip side, I would have expected a higher pressure to push through the puck faster. Which is true?

I'm also very suspicious of the basket. I'm reading that most double baskets you can actually overfill to approx 17g. I think my basket is one of these as there's a lot of space above the puck. I only want a 14g dose and I'm concerned that the extra space is affecting the quality. Can you buy affordable 14/15g baskets for the Classic?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

You can buy baskets with capacities from 6 gms up to 24 gms, tolerance allowed on fill is usually about + - 1gm

Look at I M S or V ST baskets, these are what most people use. Make sure whatever you buy is correct for your machine./

What tamper are you using (dimension) Some smaller capacity baskets require a smaller diameter tamper.


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