# Sage BE grinder



## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

I have a Barista Express since November last year and the espresso shots in general are ok. Strong, nice crema, not too sour/bitter. Same beans.

Using default burr setting (dial: 7-8, upper burr: 6) and measuring 18g with the scale, trying to be consistent when tamping.

What I've noticed is that the burr looks to 'change' into a finer setting with every use on a 2-3 days span.

For example:

5 days ago: setting no. 7, all good

3 days ago: changed the dial to 8 because the shot was chocked

Yesterday: changed to 9, shot was to the upper limit of the espresso range

Today: the shot was almost chocked passing easily espresso range


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

How long your extraction? What your shot size after extraction? what beans you using?


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

About 28-30 sec, 50ml, https://www.hema.nl/eten-drinken/koffie/koffiebonen/koffiebonen-colombia---500-gram-17100098.html

Roasting date is: 12.12.2019


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Seems a bit strange that the machine is chocking, but your still getting the full shot in 25-30 seconds. I find as the beans get older i need to reduce the grind not increase.

Im grinding 18g on at grand 5 and pulling a 55g shot in 27 seconds. My beans was roasted last week. Have you tried different beans?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Did you change the actual burr setting because you thought you should or because you needed to? Of hand I can't remember if 6 is finer or coarser? It's is possible to mess things up when this setting is changed. There should be no need to touch it but it seems some get incorrectly built in the factory but often that turns out to be bad beans - something I never had on the BE where ever I bought them from - supermarkets etc. The grinder always copped.

I suspect you may be hovering around the max brew pressure the machine can give - pressure gauge well into the hashed area at the end of the scale.

I have used a bean that had a tendency to need coarser grinding as it aged but not in a Sage grinder. Due to limitations on setting the grinder I allowed the shot time to increase by up to 5sec as that was the smallest adjustment I could reliably make. Taste change - nothing I could detect but the bean has a strong taste. Only on this particular grinder. Totally different in the BE grinder with the hopper on.

John

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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> Seems a bit strange that the machine is chocking, but your still getting the full shot in 25-30 seconds. I find as the beans get older i need to reduce the grind not increase.
> 
> Im grinding 18g on at grand 5 and pulling a 55g shot in 27 seconds. My beans was roasted last week. Have you tried different beans?


 I tried some freshly medium roasted Guatemala beans (7 days) from a local roaster but i found it very acid and in order to make it drinkable had to change the grinder from 8 to 6 and to reduce the quantity into the portafilter to about 16.5 - 17g because of the hight pressure.


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

ajohn said:


> Did you change the actual burr setting because you thought you should or because you needed to?


 The upper burr is on 6. It's the default setting.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

tonezone6 said:


> I tried some freshly medium roasted Guatemala beans (7 days) from a local roaster but i found it very acid and in order to make it drinkable had to change the grinder from 8 to 6 and to reduce the quantity into the portafilter to about 16.5 - 17g because of the hight pressure.


 I have the barista touch machine, so no pressure gauge on it, I go with how it flows and what the shot size is after 25-27 seconds, and of course the final taste. not sure why yours is doing what it is, I have a friend with a BE and he can't get the pressure up high enough, 19g and a grind of 2. he's pulling 60g shots in under 20 seconds.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Dalerst said:


> , I have a friend with a BE and he can't get the pressure up high enough, 19g and a grind of 2. he's pulling 60g shots in under 20 seconds.


 The usual reason for problems is beans. That sort of thing is highly unlikely to happen with fresh roasted beans. It may with beans from other sources. If some one must use them one way would be to load a dual wall basket with them. On the BE the basket will set the brew pressure to around 8 bar. Filled the pressure will go higher and higher at some point as the grind is made finer. Shot time is likely to need extending when that happens.

There are some none fresh roasted beans about where settings hardly matter. If some one happens on one of those it's usually possible to realise that during tuning. For instance from use I knew that I'd be unlikely to go finer than 4 on my BE grinder. So at some point taste what comes out. You might be surprised. Some one bought me some beans like this - a present. It's something to do with the processing the beans get. In this case they were stupidly expensive and not intended for use in an espresso machine. The usual rules went to the wall leaving just how much water to run through them - more was best, hardly surprising. There could be others about that are exactly the same. All none fresh I bought myself were ok - taste with most of them wasn't. One was wonderful in a french press and truly awful via an espresso machine. Another the other way round - it improved but not something I would choose to drink either way.

All of their grinders may not have been set up correctly when they were made. It's easy to check. If some one isn't having any problems and the burrs don't rub at min setting fine, leave it as it is. They can use that setting. If they set the outer burr so that they do rub it becomes a setting that shouldn't be used. If they rub at some higher setting that sets how fine the grinder can be set without risking damage to the burrs. There should never be any need to go that fine anyway or even near it.

John

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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

ajohn said:


> All of their grinders may not have been set up correctly when they were made. It's easy to check. If some one isn't having any problems and the burrs don't rub at min setting fine, leave it as it is. They can use that setting. If they set the outer burr so that they do rub it becomes a setting that shouldn't be used. If they rub at some higher setting that sets how fine the grinder can be set without risking damage to the burrs. There should never be any need to go that fine anyway or even near it.


 How do you check if the burrs are rubbing together? my machine will only run with the hopper fitted at which point you cant see the burrs..


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Another question, are you changing the amount you put in the hopper?

I recently did an experiment with single dosing or hopper dosing (around 100g of beans) in my la Pavoni and it made a huge huge difference to grind. 
On the single dosing grind (running through in less than 30 secs) the impact of the hopper with beans in was a much much coarser grind needed.

This is apparently due to the pressure the beans exert downwards and causing less variation in grind size. Less variation in size makes a more consistent puck with less channeling.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

tonezone6 said:


> I tried some freshly medium roasted Guatemala beans (7 days) from a local roaster but i found it very acid and in order to make it drinkable had to change the grinder from 8 to 6 and to reduce the quantity into the portafilter to about 16.5 - 17g because of the hight pressure.


 That sound more like it on all counts. I often mention checking the dose of grinds with the razor tool as people may have a tendency to put too much in. Grinds expand and they get tamped even more due to limited space. There is no harm in doing this within reason but I would suggest increasing the dose by rather small amounts over what the razor tool leaves. Or use it as a gauge to check how much you are using. You may find you can get an extra gram or so in. Some beans at a set weight take up more space than others.

If the taste is wrong the easiest thing to try first is shot time. Longer and shorter - forget exact amounts out other than aiming for something initially. Personally I would taste a ratio of 3. I'd also try something lower. I have used beans that need a ratio of 4 to obtain a balanced taste. Only on commercial espresso machine beans though.

The times that are usually mentioned are 25 to 30 secs. That represents a significant difference in output but why not 20 to 35. Some use 40.

Then there are the other variation. Grinder setting and dose. Lower dose more out, higher less. The fixing screw on the shower screen can indicate high doses. Clear impressions on the used puck will generally mean too much so fill height is altering grinder settings - maybe by too much. Has to be maybe and usable coarser grinds tend to leave less of an impression than beans that need finer grinding.

Tedious - yes but setting an espresso machine up is. It gets much easier to do with practice.

On the BE many say forget the gauge. No problem with that approach unless some one wants to use the machine in it's automatic mode - just press a button and leave the machine to do it's stuff. There is a valve in the machine that limits the maximum brew pressure and diverts the water away from the puck to control max pressure. Some water going that way is ok - too much prevents the machine from measuring the water flow through the puck accurately. If some one wants to work this way it takes careful tuning but can be done. If the needle stays within the espresso range on the dial water wont go out of this valve. At some point past that it starts to. Ok is likely to be *some way* into the hashed area past the espresso range.

John

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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Another question, are you changing the amount you put in the hopper?


 At first i used to put more beans in the hopper (100g or so) but since i've got a scale, i'm throwing inside only the quantity i need.


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

ajohn said:


> Lower dose more out, higher less. The fixing screw on the shower screen can indicate high doses.







Found this from 2011.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

tonezone6 said:


> At first i used to put more beans in the hopper (100g or so) but since i've got a scale, i'm throwing inside only the quantity i need.


 When did you make the change in relation to the change you've noted in shot times etc.?


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> When did you make the change in relation to the change you've noted in shot times etc.?


 When i've first got the BE, the shot time was shorter like 21-24s, the gauge indicator about the half of the espresso range, different supermarket beans, worst i think.

But i changed the beans and with the scale now i see an improvement. Longer brew times.


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## tonezone6 (Jan 19, 2020)

Another thing i've noticed about the pressure is the portafilter alignment, perpendicular or completely locked. In the latest case obviously the pressure is higher.


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