# Moka pot - time to move on?



## Lexicos (Jan 3, 2017)

Hello all! First post here, and I'd be very grateful for some advice.

For some time I have been making coffee with a Moka pot. I'm currently using pre-ground (just a little coarser than their espresso grind), generally within a week or two of roast date, from the local coffee shop, which generally has a couple of different roasts available; I try to minimise the brew time by pre-boiling the water and pouring the coffee out as soon as it's emerged, and have experimented with different amounts of coffee/firmness of tamping. But as I enjoy better coffees from some of the local places I increasingly notice more bitter overtones and what I think of as a 'stewed' aroma from what I'm making at home. Is it just that I am scalding the coffee? I understand that with proper espresso machines the coffee is brewed at a lower temperature - does this mean that the flavours I don't really like from the Moka pot are simply inevitable, or is there anything I can do to make things better?

Thanks very much for any help!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Moka pot can make some very sweet coffee. It's not that usual to tamp the coffee in the basket...not unheard of, but not not 'everyday' practice.

Do you kill the brew as/before you see steam coming from the centre pipe? With an aluminium Bialetti pot, you can kill the brew as it rises to the bottom of the spout.

Preboiled water is a good move, always watch the brewing pot with the lid open, don't leave it unattended.

Bitterness could be from steam passing through the bed of grounds, or because you are getting too much sediment in the cup (you can try filtering the brewed coffee between pot & cup with a Melitta filter, also gives the coffee time to cool). If you're absolutely sure that these are not your problem, then get your coffee ground a tad coarser.

It's a really good idea to weigh the coffee into the basket (fill to brim), to weigh the hot brew water when poured into the lower chamber & the brewed coffee in the cup to mae sure things are consistent. Timing the time from first drops appearing from the pipe, to hitting bottom of the spout is a good move too (sour coffee - stretch out the time with lower hob temp/finer grind, too bitter - shorten time with more hob heat/coarser grind).


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Hi lexicos. Good advice already given above from MWJB

Personally i love moka brews. Are you drinking it as straight espresso or adding water/milk? Mokas produce a different kind of espresso than you get from a machine, (more volume, less strong) but there are a few things you could try to improve your moka brew.

Firstly i wouldnt bother with tamping at all. Just fill and level with the back if a knife.

Secondly, buy a grinder and use fresh roasted and ground beans and filtered water. (This will make the most difference)

Third, you should use a low setting on the gas ring or hob and take off the heat just before the flow becomes spluttery.

Hopefully this is of some use..and i apologise for using the word spluttery 

All the best and Good luck!


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## Lexicos (Jan 3, 2017)

Thanks very much MWJB! It does sound as though I might be quenching things too late - I tend to leave it until the moment that the jug of the Bialetti is full but I could definitely try earlier. And I'll time things for more consistency. From your description I wonder if the grind is too fine (particularly as if I fill the basket full, with no tamping, I get minimal amounts of very dark and bitter coffee - is this 'choking'?).

Will experiment - this may be the excuse to buy a grinder!


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## Lexicos (Jan 3, 2017)

And thanks Robbo - I hadn't seen your post when I wrote my reply above. Currently drinking milk-based coffee - I like espresso but can't stomach my output from the Bialetti without milk to dilute the bitterness. Thanks for the tip about filtering the water - tap water here in Cambridge tastes pretty grim so that may well help. 'Spluttery' I think is the perfect description!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you leave it until the "flob, flob, flob" sound, it's gone on too long & this is causing any burnt taste, kill it at the first puff of steam.

I'd only expect around 40g per "cup" (7-10g of grounds per cup) from an aluminium Bialetti pot. If this coffee is too intense, dilute down with hot water, for example the European norm for the strength of brewed coffee is about 7g per 100g of finished beverage (divide the weight of the grounds used by 0.7, though many like it a bit stronger).


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## Lexicos (Jan 3, 2017)

MWJB said:


> If you leave it until the "flob, flob, flob" sound, it's gone on too long & this is causing any burnt taste, kill it at the first puff of steam.


Apologies for the stupid question, but how would you 'kill' it - is it mainly the base that you need to cool? I have often tried to cool the jug (coffee container) at least as much as the base (water container), thinking that the coffee is getting scalded in the jug after brewing and also being worried that quenching the base too soon would simply stop anything coming through, but if I understand you right it's more likely to be the high temperature of what's coming through the grounds that is burning the coffee?

I shall experiment with earlier quenching. Thanks again for the advice...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You can just remove from the heat when you see the first puff of steam/when brewed coffee reaches a datum like base of the spout. Or you can dunk the base of the pot in cold water, or place on a wet tea towel (careful if you're holding the tea towel, when wet it may conduct heat from the pot).

When I've measured brew time (flow from centre pipe) with my Bialetti, it's about 70seconds, so you have a good amount of coffee in the upper jug at the end of that time.


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Lexicos said:


> Apologies for the stupid question, but how would you 'kill' it - is it mainly the base that you need to cool? I have often tried to cool the jug (coffee container) at least as much as the base (water container), thinking that the coffee is getting scalded in the jug after brewing and also being worried that quenching the base too soon would simply stop anything coming through, but if I understand you right it's more likely to be the high temperature of what's coming through the grounds that is burning the coffee?
> 
> I shall experiment with earlier quenching. Thanks again for the advice...


Not so much the hight temp but the amount of hot water/steam you are pushing through the coffee. Too much and its over extracted and bitter. If you kill it earlier you end up with the good stuff. You dont necessarily need the higher volume as its a stronger liqueur. The last bit that comes through (during the spluttery stage) is weaker as well as bitter.


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## abs (Oct 27, 2016)

Hi - has anyone experimented with water or coffee levels for a moka pot? i say this as i have a bialetti 6-cup pot and fill it with water up to the valve and fill up the funnel with coffee (untampered) but it tasted bitter.


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

Well i have used a 3 and 6 cup moka for the last 15 years and have tried most techniques. I usually fill to about 1cm below the valve on the 6 cup and end up with the coffee level just below the spout groove. You could try making the grind slightly coarser. I have about 26g of coffee in the basket.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

abs said:


> Hi - has anyone experimented with water or coffee levels for a moka pot? i say this as i have a bialetti 6-cup pot and fill it with water up to the valve and fill up the funnel with coffee (untampered) but it tasted bitter.


Water & coffee levels are pretty much pre-set. Make sure the brew doesn't overrun in terms of time/steam being passed through the bed, if you think you are over-extracting, go coarser on the grind.


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## vabo1 (Jan 10, 2017)

Thanks all, this is a really useful thread. Just wondering whether from experience the Bialetti is any better than your average pot?


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## Skipper1988 (Jan 11, 2017)

Lexicos said:


> Hello all! First post here, and I'd be very grateful for some advice.
> 
> For some time I have been making coffee with a Moka pot. I'm currently using pre-ground (just a little coarser than their espresso grind), generally within a week or two of roast date, from the local coffee shop, which generally has a couple of different roasts available; I try to minimise the brew time by pre-boiling the water and pouring the coffee out as soon as it's emerged, and have experimented with different amounts of coffee/firmness of tamping. But as I enjoy better coffees from some of the local places I increasingly notice more bitter overtones and what I think of as a 'stewed' aroma from what I'm making at home. Is it just that I am scalding the coffee? I understand that with proper espresso machines the coffee is brewed at a lower temperature - does this mean that the flavours I don't really like from the Moka pot are simply inevitable, or is there anything I can do to make things better?
> 
> Thanks very much for any help!


I'm in the same situation as this, looking to upgrade and having a look on here to see what is out there.


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## mazi (Jan 21, 2015)

Just curious. Anyone tried this?

http://www.zohlab.com


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## johnjcamilleri (Nov 26, 2016)

mazi said:


> Just curious. Anyone tried this?
> 
> http://www.zohlab.com


Original idea, but there's no way that will ever make "perfect espresso". There will simply be too much variation in temperature and pressure.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

johnjcamilleri said:


> Original idea, but there's no way that will ever make "perfect espresso". There will simply be too much variation in temperature and pressure.


Why would the temp & pressure vary more than a typical espresso machine? It would actually seem to make for a more consistent temperature whilst eliminating the moka pot's weakness of pushing steam through the puck?


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## johnjcamilleri (Nov 26, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Why would the temp & pressure vary more than a typical espresso machine?


I'm thinking the temperature would vary because you are pouring a hot liquid into vessel of a different temperature (or maybe I misunderstood how it's used). But most importantly, how can you get constant and repeatable pressure from a bicycle pump?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm not endorsing the product in any way, but from experience with other brew methods, you can repeat the temperature of a given weight of boiling hot water in a given vessel to a fairly small tolerance.

How an you get consistent & repeatable pressure in an espresso machine, changing grind size? What is the normal range of actual (not blind) pressure at the puck? Does pressure, beyond that required to get the beverage through the puck in a suitable time frame, dictate a certain level of extraction? I guess there's always electric pumps & those with gauges if you were concerned.


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## neil freeman (Jan 14, 2017)

Great thread. just about to get my first machine but take the Moka pot camping so this will help me with my holiday coffee!


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## liegecoffee (Feb 7, 2017)

Would anyone know how the electrical Moka pots fair when it comes to making a good cup?


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