# Are lever machines the best value second hand buy?



## Somnophore (Jul 3, 2013)

By all account they last well, with many people running 1960s/70s machines today.

Looking at espresso machines on eBay I see a lot of low end autos (gaggia classic) around £100, and then not much good until you get to £400-500+ for good auto/semi auto.

what I have noticed is there are quite a few lever machines in the £150-300 range second hand.

obviously harder to use, but these sound like a good value way to get a good machine, am I wrong?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Better question what are you wanting from your new/old machine ,bar the obvious really great coffee! . Are you making drinks for yourself or for a few at a time ? Are you making predominantly espresso or milk based drinks? What grinder are you pairing it with ?


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## Somnophore (Jul 3, 2013)

Dont have a dedicated electric grinder but would be looking at something commercial quality second hand in the £200-250 region, fair few on eBay, prefer non doser model.

would make the occasional flat white or macchiato but mainly 1 or 2 espresso drinks at a time a couple of times a day. Since getting into coffee I only really drink black coffee, espresso or French press and if I have a milk based drink its as a treat I don't really like milky coffee all that much.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The lever machines are often thought of as for the purist. I would imagine that there is less to go wrong with a lever as there are fewer electrical parts, especially in the older ones. the Gaggia 105 and La Pavoni models often seen on Ebay are a good way of getting started but they have limitations, namely there is no effective way to regulate the temp. This means that with practice, you can pull one/two very good shots, but then they need a rest to cool down.

Ponte Vechhio do a nice machine a little up from that, then Bezerra do the Strega which is an interesting machine indeed, and there happens to be one for sale on this forum at the moment.

Whatever you do though, think of your coffee machine as your oven, which is only as good as the ingredients you put into it. In other words the grinder is more important than the machine. You can have a wonderful machine that makes cra coffee because the grinder limits it. You can have a really good grinder and a not so good machine but with practice, you will bang decent shots out


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## Somnophore (Jul 3, 2013)

My budget wouldn't stretch to the bezzera etc. I'm looking to spend a total of around £500-600 on a machine an grinder second hand. With a small budget for replacement seals descaling etc.

just wondered if in this budget id get better shots from a lever machine or an auto with a decent used commercial grinder. I would only be doing a couple of shots at a time at most.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The best shot of coffee can be had from say a lap acini unfortunately so can the worst. However if you are willing to learn how to use it a great combination is say a la Pavoni professional which has the bigger boiler plus say a Mazzer sj esq grinder and a nice cold wet towel to cool down the group. Do you drink milk based drinks?

If you really wanted a purist option I have both a Pavoni and a Pharos (very good hand conical) available!


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

At the lower end temp stability is going to be the issue whether lever or not. I would say that the low end levers are much harder to get consistent shots from than a Classic for example, although when you nail a shot it would have a better taste profile. It's a common price range question but you are really between price brackets at £500-600. It is not enough to get a top end home machine but more than you need for a starter. I would get a classic for around £100 and get as good a grinder you can second hand for about £300. The grinder should then see you through any upgrade when you look to a big £1000+ prosumer machine.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Levers don't present the bear value to buy initially however when it comes time to sell it to get your inevitable upgrade you probably won't lose a penny on a good entry level lever. There are plenty of options out there. I guess your question is do you want the competent box or a thing of beauty?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The offer from Coffeechap, of a La Pavoni and a Pharos is a fantastic combination. The Pharos, if you have a look around, produces grind consistency to an amazing standard, but it is a hand grinder and so performing the grind becomes a ritual. There is a forum member (Aphelion) who might like to chip in here as he uses one as well. For the price point, there is NOTHING to compare to it, but if you are going to make dozens of drinks a day, then it will not be suitable. That said, if you are pairing it to a La Pav that scenario is unlikely!


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## billcoxfam (Jan 8, 2013)

My Ponte Vecchio Lusso Mk2, spring lever machine, is still for sale and will be offered on EBay next week if not sold previously on forum. ( see for sale section). There is a new one offered for sale on eBay by an importer at £850!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The offer from Coffeechap, of a La Pavoni and a Pharos is a fantastic combination. The Pharos, if you have a look around, produces grind consistency to an amazing standard, but it is a hand grinder and so performing the grind becomes a ritual. There is a forum member (Aphelion) who might like to chip in here as he uses one as well. For the price point, there is NOTHING to compare to it, but if you are going to make dozens of drinks a day, then it will not be suitable. That said, if you are pairing it to a La Pav that scenario is unlikely!


Yep, agreed, I doubt much could hold a candle to the Pharos grind quality.

Certainly you'd have to look way north of £500+ for something brand new (with a 68mm conical burr set).

It is not the most practical in terms of turnaround, adjustment, dosing etc. but its bl00dy good!

A great match with a little lever

Regards


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## andb (Jul 19, 2013)

For me, the interesting thing about second hand levers is that you can find products the likes of which are simply no longer manufactured. As others have written, its important to seriously consider what you want. As your "requirements" grow, so do prices...

I realised that I've never used the steamer on my plain consumer espresso machine and started to look for something to better suit me; I drink 2, sometimes 3 small espresso shots each morning. Discovering the VAM/Arrarex Caravel was an eye opening moment for me. This, together with a PID from Auberins to ensure proper temperature is simply the best possible machine for my needs I can imagine.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Lets see some pics Andy! there are three caravel owners on this forum and I think we ll rate them! If you make 4, then perhaps there are enough of us to have our own sub forum! (Glenn?)


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## 666tyler (Apr 19, 2013)

Having had my Caravel nearly a week i have to say it is the most amazing little machine i have come across. I get far more consistent results from the Caravel than i do from the spring lever Microcasa! Added to the fact the Caravel comes apart in seconds with no tools so you can regularly clean it, i would have to say this is something most on the forum should consider owning if they just drink espresso.

Andb i second davids request for a picture!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Somnophore said:


> My budget wouldn't stretch to the bezzera etc. I'm looking to spend a total of around £500-600 on a machine an grinder second hand. With a small budget for replacement seals descaling etc.
> 
> just wondered if in this budget id get better shots from a lever machine or an auto with a decent used commercial grinder. I would only be doing a couple of shots at a time at most.


Did you manage to sort out a machine a grinder then


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