# I've started some drawings



## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

basically, what I am trying to create is a home made machine capable of decaffeinating coffee beans. I will be honest I have no actual experience of this so please be patient the designs and drawings might need some modifications when I actually start the build.

So far I have managed to obtain, 2 x 50 litre steel drums, and some acid and benzene (which is actually an organic compound). I have ordered the tubing and things and they will be coming on Friday.

I am trying at the moment to think of a way to produce the stem, originally it was intended that I would have a network of old coca cola bottles but upon the first test run of this project the bottles failed and water leaked.

Anyway, once I have got the basic procedure sorted for a home machine; I'm planning to sell them.

Will post my drawings as well.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Can I invest in this? Sounds like a winner


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

The potential to upscale this for profit is immense. If you buy 100kg of beans and run them through my machine - you'll end up with 100kg of decaffeinated beans (or there or thereabouts) some weight might be lost during the process. BUT as we all know decaffeinated beans are more expensive.

Caffeinated Beans @ £3.99 per 250g x 400 (to make 100kg) = £1,596.00

Decaffeinated Beans @ £4.99 per 250g x 400 (to make 100kg) = £1,996.00


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

ho hum!

Is it just me, or is it starting to get old?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)




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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Nothing like a banned carcinogen in untrained hands to produce a top grade food project. Good luck with the project.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Have I wandered into dragon's den.....I'm out


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

shrink said:


> ho hum!
> 
> Is it just me, or is it starting to get old?


Was it ever new......


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have I wandered into dragon's den.....I'm out


I'll be bannatyne if you go meaden


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Was it ever new......


I used to quite like the show "New Girl" because Zooey was quirky, and funny and a bit silly.

But eventually it became tiresome, as it was just a cry for attention "oh look at me, aren't I so quirky and funny and silly".

no Zooey, you're just irritating.

Make of this what you will.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I really wish Noah would just stop his nonsense, if its not slating dsol, its building a wall, or @#?&ing cats, or a multitude of other complete nonsense, either you really love being a clown (but believe you are actually fairly intelligent) or you are indeed a complete troll, either way it pains me to see this stuff on my latest post refresh......

I am being unreasonable?


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

shrink said:


> *I used to quite like the show "New Girl*" because Zooey was quirky, and funny and a bit silly.
> 
> But eventually it became tiresome, as it was just a cry for attention "oh look at me, aren't I so quirky and funny and silly".
> 
> ...


make of this what you will...


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I have some drawings for a time machine. All I need is a DeLorien, a flux capacitor and lots of flashing lights

I think I can knock them out for about £100K

I also have drawings to cross a rhino with a horse which should make me a unicorn which has to be worth a few quid

Not forgetting my drawings to alter the atomic structure of cheese and turn it into gold

Will exchange the copyright for any of the above for some magic beans


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

michaelg said:


> Nothing like a banned carcinogen in untrained hands to produce a top grade food project. Good luck with the project.


And if at first you don't succeed, stop and have a ciggy. That should throw some light on the matter!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm thinking that Noah is the alter-ego of an existing member

No photos of the cat wall, no photos of the bike and the hole in the wall, no link to the web sites that hes created or the business he was creating


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

michaelg said:


> Nothing like a banned carcinogen in untrained hands to produce a top grade food project. Good luck with the project.


hilarious comment!! :-D


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Burnzy said:


> hilarious comment!! :-D


I used to work in a lab for a few years and no one ever used benzene if they could avoid it - don't know anyone who ever used it other than maybe the real old timers. My old chemistry teachers comment about how back in the day they all washed their hands with the stuff but all her former colleagues are dead now made the point quite succinctly!


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

michaelg said:


> I used to work in a lab for a few years and no one ever used benzene if they could avoid it - don't know anyone who ever used it other than maybe the real old timers. My old chemistry teachers comment about how back in the day they all washed their hands with the stuff but all her former colleagues are dead now made the point quite succinctly!


Nah, its ok noahs using cola bottles


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Ah, the old coke bottle trick. Clear he's a veteran. Noah = Heisenberg. Or is he? I'm not sure...*

*science joke


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

working dog said:


> I'm thinking that Noah is the alter-ego of an existing member


Clearly CC's above post is a diversion and Noah is actually CC's alter Ego...

But yea, this was pretty funny when it was new and skirted along the edges of possibility, now its just one more pointless topic after the next.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

I think you would need to be nuttier than a squril turd to consider buying anything from the op


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

The "garden wall" thread would not have been half as funny had it not been taken so seriously by many.

If you water a plant you better enjoy seeing it growing.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Clearly CC's above post is a diversion and Noah is actually CC's alter Ego...
> 
> But yea, this was pretty funny when it was new and skirted along the edges of possibility, now its just one more pointless topic after the next.


Posting pointless topics ...

That moment of clarity when you realise who Noah really is

It has to be Boots


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Noah, i think you should pour your chemicals in the drum, then climb in!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

froggy... i think it has to be a plastic container he pours the chemicals into. Wouldn't want it melting through the bathtub.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Ahhh Breaking Bad style!


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Noah, I think you should ask an adult for their help with this one


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

CamV6 said:


> Noah, I think you should ask an adult for their help with this one


The trouble with that for him would mean the probable calling of his GP a Pyschiatrist and CPN and an enforced 28 day stay in secure facility.

That said would be an interesting scenario combining all those hazardous materials ( ever heard of COSSH Regulations Noah?) and a few sparks, maybe you could decaffeinate and roast the beans in a single process whilst giving yourself several varieties of cancer.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

...and giving

Noah you are a tool

Bloody auto correct, I meant troll ( or did I?)


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Its all gone quiet from Noah. I think maybe he's gone for a lie down now that the medication has kicked in. Lets hope he hasn't taken his crayons and colouring in book or else we'll have a some wonderful drawings for his latest design for nuclear fission.

Either that or there's been a chemical explosion and his kitchen is a seething mass of fire, benzene, burnt (and likely still caffeinated) coffee beans and smouldering plastic cola bottles with Noah sat in the corner like a cartoon character with a blackened face and singed hair standing on end and a circle of small birdies flying round his head with a "WTF" expression slapped all over his Chevy Chase (face)


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

CamV6 said:


> (and likely still caffeinated) coffee beans


too funny!!!!!!!!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I turn my back for 10 mins and the forum descends into madness


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

I blame the heat


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Secretly we all desperately trying to patent benzene running through a maze of cola bottles and steel drums..


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

Right, I've taken on board the useful but hopelessly humiliating feedback from you guys and decided instead to switch to a system focusing on the swiss water process. I will be honest, I have no idea how this works, so I will need to do some reading.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You need to go Switzerland and buy some water, then soak your beans for 72 hours.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> You need to go Switzerland and buy some water, then soak your beans for 72 hours.


Well if it's that simple can someone else please confirm as soon as possible because i've ordered 30 feet on pipe from Amazon to run from the kitchen out into the garden (originally so that I wouldn't be harmed by chemicals, or explosions).


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Noah, old son, ask yourself this: are you ever likely to have a laugh with people who spend their time obsessing over coffee grinders?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

ilplkco

Arrange those letters to form a word Noah!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

michaelg said:


> benzene - don't know anyone who ever used it....!


The Nazis used it. They used to inject the people in their extermination camps because, once gassed, the bodies would cremate faster.

This thread is silly. Having benzene in a domestic setting is reckless.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

working dog said:


> Posting pointless topics ...
> 
> That moment of clarity when you realise who Noah really is
> 
> It has to be Boots


I'm now sure how to take this

Offended...

Deeply offended....










PS not me...honest. I use my own name to post crap... ( as u all well know....)/


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Charliej said:


> The trouble with that for him would mean the probable calling of his GP a Pyschiatrist and CPN and an enforced 28 day stay in secure facility.


An application for a Section 2 detention under the Mental Health Act can be made by a relative but is more usually undertaken by an 'approved mental health professional (AMHP)' who are specially trained social workers. CPNs cannot be an AMHP. A Section 2 also requires the input of two doctors, one of whom must be approved under the Act. Any action to detain an individual outside these conditions would be illegal and a breach of his/her human rights. Just thought I'd clear that up


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> An application for a Section 2 detention under the Mental Health Act can be made by a relative but is more usually undertaken by an 'approved mental health professional (AMHP)' who are specially trained social workers. CPNs cannot be an AMHP. A Section 2 also requires the input of two doctors, one of whom must be approved under the Act. Any action to detain an individual outside these conditions would be illegal and a breach of his/her human rights. Just thought I'd clear that up


We were told we had to have a CPN there when we had to have my Mum sectioned in January last year, and she came along with a psychiatrist and her GP, as well as the police.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Noah, not all is lost with the pipe you bought.

Rest one end in a flower bed in your garden and roll the rest into the house, up to your favourite chair.

Pull your trousers down. Shove the other end of the pipe as far up your bum as it will go. Then sit down, put the telly on and relax.

Now you can spread your shyte all across your garden by way of fertiliser, for free!

This will generate a considerable financial saving to your domestic purse, meaning you don't have to bother with trying to make any money from decaffeinating coffee beans, or re-inventing the wheel, or trying to make a synthetic coal to sell in Newcastle.

make sure you take pictures for us please


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Charliej said:


> We were told we had to have a CPN there when we had to have my Mum sectioned in January last year, and she came along with a psychiatrist and her GP, as well as the police.


Under the Mental Health Act, a CPN cannot discharge the role of approved mental health professional. They would have been present solely in a supportive capacity - they cannot sign the papers only an AMHP can. A relative can make the application but, to avoid challenge under law, it is usually an AMHP plus two doctors one of whom has to hold 'approved status' under the Act.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

...you are, after all, depriving someone of their liberty.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Are we arguing about how to section someone's mum?

Peep Show- Jeremy and Mark try to section each ot&#8230;:


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> ...you are, after all, depriving someone of their liberty.


Very true Patrick, and something I still feel extremely guilty about as it did involve my brother and Step Father as well, it was for her own good but still a very hard thing to have to do to a parent, but it was the only way to get her properly assessed as well as to keep her safe. We couldn't leaver her alone any more as she would just wander off unless you locked every door and took all the keys and spares out with you, and she had started lashing out when someone said something she didn't like for any reason and she wasn't pulling her punches she gave me a shiner twice.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

There's a great piece of research done in the '60s - a group of 'normal' students presented themselves to a number of psych institutions in the States faking certain mental health conditions. All were admitted. During their period of observation and assessment, they all professed themselves sane explaining they were students taking part in an experiment. None were allowed to leave and their explanations were taken as evidence of their illness. Funny thing is, the only people who sussed the students were faking were......actual patients.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Takes one to know one


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

The institutions used in this experiment weren't exactly happy having their 'diagnostic expertise' exposed in this way. They contacted the researcher and he agreed to repeat the experiment and challenged the institutions to spot the fake patients that he would try and get admitted over the coming months. Six month later, he received a list of fake patients from the institutions. The institutions, naturally, felt very smug until he told them he hadn't sent a single fake patient to any of the institutions involved.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Takes one to know one


Reminds me of a quote - the only sane person is that person who hasn't yet been assessed


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

If you take a leaf through the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) I challenge you not to find a disorder for which you don't at least slightly fit the criteria. There is something there for everyone!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

michaelg said:


> If you take a leaf through the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) I challenge you not to find a disorder for which you don't at least slightly fit the criteria. There is something there for everyone!


Well for starters all of us here count for some degree of OCD .... oops sorry CDO







at the very least.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

michaelg said:


> If you take a leaf through the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) I challenge you not to find a disorder for which you don't at least slightly fit the criteria. There is something there for everyone!


Hence the black humour quote amongst those working in the field - the only sane person is the one we haven't yet assessed.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

michaelg said:


> If you take a leaf through the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) I challenge you not to find a disorder for which you don't at least slightly fit the criteria. There is something there for everyone!


Dear old DSM - this is the 'bible' that viewed homosexuality as a mental illness. Now, you might towards being a tad charitable if that was the 19th century but it was only removed from DSM a mere 40 years ago in the States. My particular irritation (amongst many) is the diagnosis of Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder - and the relentless rise of children being prescribed drugs like Ritalin to combat it. Ritalin, by the way is speed.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Charliej said:


> Well for starters all of us here count for some degree of OCD .... oops sorry CDO
> 
> 
> 
> ...


CDO is dyslexia, Charlie - completely different ball game


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Dear old DSM - this is the 'bible' that viewed homosexuality as a mental illness. Now, you might towards being a tad charitable if that was the 19th century but it was only removed from DSM a mere 40 years ago in the States. My particular irritation (amongst many) is the diagnosis of Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder - and the relentless rise of children being prescribed drugs like Ritalin to combat it. Ritalin, by the way is speed.


Sadly necessary in clinical research though so it'll be around as long as there are new medications being developed...

My copy is mostly used to keep my home-office window jammed open currently


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> There's a great piece of research done in the '60s - a group of 'normal' students presented themselves to a number of psych institutions in the States faking certain mental health conditions. All were admitted. During their period of observation and assessment, they all professed themselves sane explaining they were students taking part in an experiment. None were allowed to leave and their explanations were taken as evidence of their illness. Funny thing is, the only people who sussed the students were faking were......actual patients.


Loved reading about that.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Actually that scares me. Plus, I used to go out with a girl many years ago who was some kind of mental health professional. She used to boast that she had more power than the home Secretary because she could have someone sectioned. The sad thing was, due to factors beyond her control as a child, she was really not the right person for this job. O wonder how many others like her there are out there? Luckily it does need more than one person's say so but I also imagine that they often concur out of professional respect or solidarity.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

I've taken part in reviews of clinical practice where a person has been detained under the Mental Health Act and the paperwork was incorrect and/or incomplete rendering the detention a serious breach of their rights. Happens more than you might think.


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## c_squared (Jun 26, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> My particular irritation (amongst many) is the diagnosis of Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder - and the relentless rise of children being prescribed drugs like Ritalin to combat it. Ritalin, by the way is speed.


Agreed. I've met many young people who have 'ADHD', most of them IMO don't, the vast minority do and when they do you know about it! I wonder if the rates of diagnosis would reduce if there were no entitlements to disability benefits?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Flip is we have never had a diagnosis for Rohan. No one is interested in pursuing it apart from us...

Latest thing we thing it might be is deletion syndrome but they would need to do serious genetic tests = money .....

In the end a lot of these things we look at just seem to be a description of symptoms or behaviours rather than an actual cause


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

you could use Trichloroethane or Trike as its nick named to get decaf beens and it s good for getting other lucrative oily compounds out if organic substances, and only a R45 carcinogen risk and widely used as an industrial degreaser.

but i dont like decaf anyway


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The prescribing of drugs for ADHD is a farce. The problem is this country pales in comparison to that of the USA, where private healthcare stood to make, and did make, huge amounts of money giving drugs to children who did not need them.

From snopes: (this is the psycologist who 'discovered' ADHD describing it as fabricated.)



> We found that the German-language version of Der Spiegel ran an article in 2012 that skeptically examined the large increase in diagnoses of mental disorders in recent years and quoted Dr. Eisenberg on that subject. A software-based translation of that article from German to English does describe Dr. Eisenberg as the "father of ADHD" and report that during his "last interview" he said something similar to "ADHD is a prime example of a fictitious disease." However, allowing for the vagaries of translation and reading the statement in context, some native German speakers have reported that Dr. Eisenberg wasn't asserting that ADHD isn't a real disorder, but rather that it is overdiagnosed:
> 
> "One out of every ten 10-year-old boys already takes an ADHD drug daily. But the scientific father of ADHD has followed the explosion of prescriptions with growing horror. Leon Eisenberg took over the management of psychiatry at the prestigious Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston and became one of the most famous psychiatrists in the world. In his last interview, seven months before his death from prostate cancer at the age of 87, he distanced himself from his youthful indiscretion.
> 
> ...


And here is the "conspiracy theory", only not from a complete nutter.

http://www.occupycorporatism.com/doctor-explains-adhd-exists-make-money-big-pharma/


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> The prescribing of drugs for ADHD is a farce. The problem is this country pales in comparison to that of the USA, where private healthcare stood to make, and did make, huge amounts of money giving drugs to children who did not need them.
> 
> From snopes: (this is the scientist who 'discovered' ADHD describing it as fabricated.)
> 
> ...


This some of the conclusion of Ron Johnson the Psychopath test?

and as someone as a child who was on the receiving end of some of the early thoughts about hyperactivity, most mental health workers/psychiatric assessors will find what they want to find even if its not there, they will just point to perfectly normal human traits and call them what ever suits their cause. i was just badly dyslexic and frustrated with an education system that didn't work for me, glad things are a lot different kids these days


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Australia has high percentages of children prescribed medication for ADHD. There's a marked increase happening in this country too.


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Australia has high percentages of children prescribed medication for ADHD. There's a marked increase happening in this country too.


Must be an increase in the number of psychiatrists requiring a GSK sponsored holiday or research funding


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

The way drug companies solicit the medical profession with freebies and the rest is a cause for great concern.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The Systemic Kid said:


> The way drug companies solicit the medical profession with freebies and the rest is a cause for great concern.


And in the UK we currently have laws that prohibit this, how we can look at America's example and not be more up in arms about the selling off of the NHS is beyond me.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Soo...

Hows about those drawings then?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> The way drug companies solicit the medical profession with freebies and the rest is a cause for great concern.


They can't anymore it's illegal. And NiCE and the SME are slamming the lid down on the fingers of new drugs. Pharma Cos view the UK as a declining market now. They are hurting.


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

smokeybarn said:


> Soo...
> 
> Hows about those drawings then?


So your in then


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> ....how we can look at America's example and not be more up in arms about the selling off of the NHS is beyond me.


It's an economic argument:

- you can tax GDP at around 40%. Tax at a higher rate, you get less because money leaves the UK. this means the UK Governments income is essentially fixed in real terms. (Imagine never getting a pay rise, just cost of living increases.)

- Social Security is the highest spend and 'cracking down on freeloaders' is a trite but vote winning slogan so you'll here it at election time.

- schools is the third biggest spend and 'academies for your children' plays well enough (though we are barely literate and numerate by any objective international standard)

- healthcare is the second biggest spend and it's spiralling because of a growing and ageing population, a broader range of treatments, and greater expectation of treatment. By 2017 there will be a £50billion shortfall in NHS funding (currently around £110billion).

Everything else even added up is a tiny proportion of total government spending.

The truth is Britain cannot afford the NHS anymore but shutting hospitals is political suicide. Not even Maggie had the balls to properly reposition the NHS. So the last two Governments (yes truly embraced and driven by Labour) have outsourced running of core infrastructure to companies like Circle Health; and planning/buying care to syndicates of mega consultancies like McKinsey and Boston Group.

The terrible news is that these companies can use 'profit' as a unifying objective. They are more rational in decision making, faster to act, and can afford top talent. Crucially, many of the usual operational an financial constraints are removed? Not surprisingly they can turn 30% loss making basket cases into 20% and climbing profit centres. They are literally stripping money out of the NHS and they are going to be lauded as the solution. The ones I know think its a beano.

This is how the NHS will be privatised and range of care will be constrained to protect margins.

It's a scandal.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Oops! Another forum meltdown for @jeebsy to add to his list. Sorry


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2014)

Obnic said:


> It's an economic argument:
> 
> - you can tax GDP at around 40%. Tax at a higher rate, you get less because money leaves the UK. this means the UK Governments income is essentially fixed in real terms. (Imagine never getting a pay rise, just cost of living increases.)
> 
> ...


What is this?

This is a thread for helping me decaffeinate coffee beans.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Obnic said:


> It's an economic argument:
> 
> - you can tax GDP at around 40%. Tax at a higher rate, you get less because money leaves the UK. this means the UK Governments income is essentially fixed in real terms. (Imagine never getting a pay rise, just cost of living increases.)
> 
> ...


Whilst this is mostly all true, the UK spends less per capita than a huge swath of Western countries, notably the US spends more than double what we do, despite its private system.

Not only this but when questioned nearly half the population, with no campaigning whatsoever think that higher taxation is acceptable

"As the poll we report on on Thursday shows, the idea of paying more income tax is not itself unacceptable. When people were asked how to make up the funding shortfall in the NHS, which is likely to be £2bn next year, and growing wider in the course of the next parliament, nearly half - 48% - chose higher taxes as the best way. Only a fifth thought it was ever acceptable to charge at the point of use, and even fewer were prepared to see some treatments rationed."

Selling off the NHS is not the answer, if other countries can invest more per capita than we do then it shows that public spending can lean this way, and even if it can't, most of us would sooner face higher taxes than turf the sick out onto the street.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Noah&theBean said:


> What is this?
> 
> This is a thread for helping me decaffeinate coffee beans.


I read that as deffecate coffee beans, and that has given me an idea, Noah.

I'd like you to be my business partner, Noah. All you'd have to do is sit around and eat loads. I'll do the rest.

Tell me where you live, Noah. We can get started tonight...


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> What is this?
> 
> This is a thread for helping me decaffeinate coffee beans.


It did turn into a thread about how to get you some help. Now where did I put that electric shock machine ? !!!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> ....when questioned nearly half the population, with no campaigning whatsoever think that higher taxation is acceptable.


Yes but yet... Idea may be acceptable in principle but the IFS observes the 40% GDP limit is a constant political and economic reality - money migrates away from higher taxation. Also direct income taxation is only about 26% of overall collected revenue.

Your £2bn shortfall figure was a new one to me. I suppose this means that £18bn of the target £20bn saving required in the last review has been identified (as distinct from delivered). Still doesn't change the relationship between projected population cost versus the flattened planned funding. There is a structural problem there. The gap between healthcare consumption (priced at 2013 levels) and planned funding is £50bn by 2017 and unimaginable after that.

It's wrong. I'm seething. And we are all losing something magnificent by stealth.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Noah&theBean said:


> What is this? This is a thread for helping me decaffeinate coffee beans.


Not sure it was ever really that Noah


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Social security may be the highest spend, but the 2 highest spends within that budget are the pensioners in the lead by a long way with many pension age benefits not being means tested, followed by the working poor i.e. those on a subsistence wage and claiming working tax credits, housing benefit, free school meals help with NHS prescriptions, dental and opticians charges. We are continually told how few people are actually claiming JSA and that this figure keeps falling thus leaving any claims of people being "freeloaders" aimed at the sick and disabled who are the minority spend anyway and where the real estimate of fraudulent claims is 0.01%.

Working towards a living wage rather than a rather low minimum wage would raise many of these so called "working poor" out of the social security thresholds and reduce money spent in that way and in the long term increase tax revenues.

There are other things which we could also reduce spending on such as our crazy insistence on keeping Trident submarines in order to have a so called nuclear deterrent, which would more than cover any NHS funding shortfall.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

@charliej quite right, I count pensions in social provision.

You raise proper points. What if we diverted our war (oil protection) budget to becoming the world centre of new fuels development?

So many great questions but instead we allow our politicians to divert us onto mortgage subsidies, euro scepticism, sleeze and a whole lot of other nonsense.

In Iceland after their government broke their economy the people ousted the government, got their finances in order, prosecuted their bankers, and wrote a new Magna Carta style constitution. Even the French burn sheep in protest. We just 'don't vote'. Argh!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Problem is UK PLC is broke - has an eye wateringly huge structural debt - still rising - and a government tax take of GDP of well over 40%. In France the gov tax take is well over 50% and look at the French economy. Believe economists recommend a gov tax take ratio to GDP of under 40% to keep it in good shape. Of course voters support higher taxes so long as it isn't they who are paying it. Gordon Brown, during his period as chancellor, put one extra million people on the public payroll financing it out of unsupported borrowing. The maths doesn't stack up - whoever wins the next election is faced with a stark dilemma - rein in public spending and increase taxation with risks to the so-called recovery.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

There is always the option of actually making people who actually broke the system and then went cap in hand saying "we're too big to go bust" in 2008 to actually repay the money they have "borrowed" rather than selling the publicly owned share of these businesses at a huge loss when they are still paying ridiculous bonuses to their staff.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

@charliej Kenny had the right overall sentiment


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Charliej said:


> There is always the option of actually making people who actually broke the system and then went cap in hand saying "we're too big to go bust" in 2008 to actually repay the money they have "borrowed" rather than selling the publicly owned share of these businesses at a huge loss when they are still paying ridiculous bonuses to their staff.


Charlie, there are indeed problems with the bonus culture but if it if it weren't for the financial services sector's huge contribution to UK GDP, we would be up the creek economically. Our current wealth generation is predominantly based on financial services which are multinational and these companies can relocate very easily - look at what's happening in France. We need the financial services sector and bonuses are a part of it. What would you rather have - state determined bonuses - and watch the financial services sector leave London? Then where would we be?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Has a thread ever gone so far off topic!

I think not.


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Well, as we ARE off topic, I decided it was G&T O'Clock.

I've got a delightful Royal Navy strength (57%) gin made just down the road by Hayman's of Witham.

Most highly recommended!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

My water pump went on my jeep today!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

froggystyle said:


> Has a thread ever gone so far off topic!
> 
> I think not.


There a kind of quaint irony to turning a topic created purely for trolling into a topic about politics and the economy.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

And water pumps failing and Gin!


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

D_Evans said:


> There a kind of quaint irony to turning a topic created purely for trolling into a topic about politics and the economy.


and Gin and tonic!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dan Wang came back to the shop too.....


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> There a kind of quaint irony to turning a topic created purely for trolling into a topic about politics and the economy.


My work here is done


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

My dog is lying on her back, almost like she has snuffed it...

She knows nothing about gin, water pumps and she doesn't know Dan Wang either!

Hope this helps...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Obnic said:


> My work here is done


Plus one for that


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm sure a knackered water pump and a 1990s engine is just the thing for decaffeinating beans. I've got an old RAV4, a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel, and some drawings. .. and a few coke bottles.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Anyway who's Dan Wang, or shouldn't I ask?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

hotmetal said:


> I'm sure a knackered water pump and a 1990s engine is just the thing for decaffeinating beans. I've got an old RAV4, a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel, and some drawings. .. and a few coke bottles.


Does this cunning plan involve turnips by some chance?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Might do. Fancy a cappuccino?!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Turnip Flat White?

nom nom nom


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