# Does the Gaggia Classic come with a



## sand133 (Sep 28, 2013)

Hi guy I am going to order a Gaggia Classic this evening to replace my broken Delongi Icona

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0000C72XS/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=06BYWYZ5ARZGF6XHW53Z&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=429454147&pf_rd_i=468294#productDescription

Does anyone know if this comes with a non-pressurised filter basket?

If not does anyone have a link to where I can buy one from?

Thanks


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't think it does. You can source stock baskets anywhere - just Google Classic double and/or single baskets.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

No, but you can *order from Happy Donkey*


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## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

The newer models come with a pressurised basket, as the kid says just buy a replacement single/double basket (maybe even a VST if you're feeling fancy) and remove the plastic stopper in the spout.


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## sand133 (Sep 28, 2013)

Does a VST make a difference to the shot?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

sand133 said:


> Does a VST make a difference to the shot?


VST baskets are precision engineered - they can be unforgiving of poor barista skills. Whether they provide better shots is a moot point.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

If using the Skerton grinder a VST is a leap too far at this stage. You will have a more forgiving machine using a standard basket


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Glenn said:


> If using the Skerton grinder a VST is a leap too far at this stage. You will have a more forgiving machine using a standard basket


Agree , start with stock non pressurised double, get your dose , tamp and distribution right with this then see if you want to move on.


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## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

Glenn said:


> If using the Skerton grinder a VST is a leap too far at this stage. You will have a more forgiving machine using a standard basket


I don't follow, if your grinder isn't good enough for a VST why is it good enough for a non-pressurized basket?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

You're not going to get the best out of a precision basket if your grinder is not consistent.

You'd be better off investing in a better grinder before buying better baskets.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

SimonB said:
 

> I don't follow, if your grinder isn't good enough for a VST why is it good enough for a non-pressurized basket?


Because the vst is the most unforgiving basket you can get as it is precise, so where a cheaper grinder will be ok in a stock basket, the vst will expose the deficiencies


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

My friend has a Gaggia Classic and absolutley hates it. The first point of concern is the plastic widget thingy which is used with the pressurised filter. The other one is the lack of temperature control and to get you have to fit a kit which is pretty expensive and the result is that the eventual cost is about the same as buying a better machine which costs £100 more.

My own personal view is that while it may well produce 15 bars of pressure with the pressurised filter it is unlikely to do that with a non-pressurised filter which owners add to get away from the plastic widget. Crazy!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Anthorn said:


> My friend has a Gaggia Classic and absolutley hates it. The first point of concern is the plastic widget thingy which is used with the pressurised filter. The other one is the lack of temperature control and to get you have to fit a kit which is pretty expensive and the result is that the eventual cost is about the same as buying a better machine which costs £100 more.
> 
> My own personal view is that while it may well produce 15 bars of pressure with the pressurised filter it is unlikely to do that with a non-pressurised filter which owners add to get away from the plastic widget. Crazy!


Your view point contradicts just about everyone on here (surprise surprise) firstly most people actually reduce the pressure on their gaggia classic to around 9 bar at the group as this is the ideal pressure for making espresso. Next the gaggia comes preset to about 12.5- 13 bar right out the factory but is capable of being adjusted to 15 bar( but as previously stated this is not ideal). Finally the gaggia is one of the most forgiving entry level machines that in the hands of someone who knows and cares about what they are doing makes excellent espresso ( needs a good grinder as well) without the need to add a PID. Tell your friend to bin the pressurised basket, get a decent grinder and learn how to use the machine.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> My friend has a Gaggia Classic and absolutley hates it. The first point of concern is the plastic widget thingy which is used with the pressurised filter. The other one is the lack of temperature control and to get you have to fit a kit which is pretty expensive and the result is that the eventual cost is about the same as buying a better machine which costs £100 more.
> 
> My own personal view is that while it may well produce 15 bars of pressure with the pressurised filter it is unlikely to do that with a non-pressurised filter which owners add to get away from the plastic widget. Crazy!


If your friend can point me towards a machine with temperature control for £100 more than even a new classics price then I'd be impressed. You can fit a cheap thermometer and temperature surf or you can time your shot and manage to get to a consistent temp. You don't need to fit a PID.


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Your view point contradicts just about everyone on here (surprise surprise) firstly most people actually reduce the pressure on their gaggia classic to around 9 bar at the group as this is the ideal pressure for making espresso. Next the gaggia comes preset to about 12.5- 13 bar right out the factory but is capable of being adjusted to 15 bar( but as previously stated this is not ideal). Finally the gaggia is one of the most forgiving entry level machines that in the hands of someone who knows and cares about what they are doing makes excellent espresso ( needs a good grinder as well) without the need to add a PID. Tell your friend to bin the pressurised basket, get a decent grinder and learn how to use the machine.


It's also a very old machine and because of that has a large body of reviews. But also because of that it doesn't benefit from new technology such as electronic temperature control and Thermoblock which many so-called lesser machines have. But it does have the widget which stops the coffee going everywhere except in the cup. I'm currently looking at espresso machines and Gaggia in any of its models is not even on the list! It's really Philips anyway.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> It's also a very old machine and because of that has a large body of reviews. But also because of that it doesn't benefit from new technology such as electronic temperature control and Thermoblock which many so-called lesser machines have. But it does have the widget which stops the coffee going everywhere except in the cup. I'm currently looking at espresso machines and Gaggia in any of its models is not even on the list! It's really Philips anyway.


It's an old manchine , but as the name says its a classic, yes Phillips have damaged the brand with plastic toys and new models , but the pre Phillips classic is still the nbst entry level , value for money machine out there . . Thermoblocks are new technology but that doesn't mean it's better technology. I don't think there is a machine that has a Thermoblock that is temperature stable.

What's machines are you looking at for espresso then may I ask ?

Have you used a gaggia classic, tasted the coffee from one , when it has a non pressurised basket and a decent grinder ? ?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> It's also a very old machine and because of that has a large body of reviews. But also because of that it doesn't benefit from new technology such as electronic temperature control and Thermoblock which many so-called lesser machines have. But it does have the widget which stops the coffee going everywhere except in the cup. I'm currently looking at espresso machines and Gaggia in any of its models is not even on the list! It's really Philips anyway.


As I say, point me towards a machine that costs less than a new classic that has electronic temperature control, I don't know of one? If by electronic you mean a PID because a classic does use electronics to control the temperature by turning the boiler on and off. Have you used a classic? Also thermoblocks aren't cutting edge technology.


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Neill said:


> As I say, point me towards a machine that costs less than a new classic that has electronic temperature control, I don't know of one? If by electronic you mean a PID because a classic does use electronics to control the temperature by turning the boiler on and off. Have you used a classic? Also thermoblocks aren't cutting edge technology.


Yes I have used a classic and I forgot about the widget with the pressuried filter basket. Nuff said. Oh come on, are you living on a different planet? Even the humble AEG/Electrolux A Modo Mio machine has electronic temperature control and Thermoblock.

In reply to Mrboots2u: De'Longhi, Dualit and Gaggia are off the list and now I'm in no man's land lol. Here I'm talking family and not single user so the machine would need to be durable. For example I looked at A Modo Mio capsules and a box of 16 single shot capsules at their cheapest (Tesco online, £3.50) providing 100g of ground coffee wouldn't even last a day. I've only just started looking at Rancilio Silvia V3 which is within my £500 budget (Amazon UK)


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

You are going to run into similar issues with a Rancilio (without a PID)

In the right hands a Gaggia Classic can make a decent coffee, better than many commercial machines in the hands of mediocre baristas.

How much is your friend selling his pre-Philips Gaggia Classic for? I'm sure there will be takers on here if the price is right


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Glenn said:


> You are going to run into similar issues with a Rancilio (without a PID)
> 
> In the right hands a Gaggia Classic can make a decent coffee, better than many commercial machines in the hands of mediocre baristas.
> 
> How much is your friend selling his pre-Philips Gaggia Classic for? I'm sure there will be takers on here if the price is right


Yes I just discovered that from a different post. These machines are pretty much from the Ark.

My friend is waiting to see what I buy lol. I'll suggest that he registers. His Gaggia Class is a reconditioned model and not new.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> Yes I have used a classic and I forgot about the widget with the pressuried filter basket. Nuff said. Oh come on, are you living on a different planet? Even the humble AEG/Electrolux A Modo Mio machine has electronic temperature control and Thermoblock.
> 
> In reply to Mrboots2u: De'Longhi, Dualit and Gaggia are off the list and now I'm in no man's land lol. Here I'm talking family and not single user so the machine would need to be durable. For example I looked at A Modo Mio capsules and a box of 16 single shot capsules at their cheapest (Tesco online, £3.50) providing 100g of ground coffee wouldn't even last a day. I've only just started looking at Rancilio Silvia V3 which is within my £500 budget (Amazon UK)


What is it about Thermoblocks that you find so attractive in a machine . Modo mio is the lavazza pod machine isn't it ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Woo hoo lavazza lover man is back....... Thermobloc technology is not new and is not that reliable either, you must be such an expert in the coffee world as you are going against the recommendations of a lot of people with a lot of experience in making great coffee, point blank lavazza a modo Mio is not a good machine have a look on eBay you pick them up for less than £20 second hand. The gaggia classic still retains a lot of the quality that it had before Philips, if it was so shite, why has it not been dropped from the lineup????? Anyway I hope your friend sees sense and doesn't listen to a word you tell them or crap pod coffee will be coming their way.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Anthorn said:


> Yes I just discovered that from a different post. These machines are pretty much from the Ark


A winning design is a winning design. Why change a winning formula that's still in demand? (and for good reason!)

Take the e61 grouphead for example... It just works and you'll be pushed to better the design. 60 years old and still not bettered.

You may want to do some extensive research before comment?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Daren said:


> A winning design is a winning design. Why change a winning formula that's still in demand? (and for good reason!)
> 
> Take the e61 grouphead for example... It just works and you'll be pushed to better the design. 60 years old and still not bettered.
> 
> You may want to do some extensive research before comment?


Every time he starts to do some research on google and sees the word Lavazza he just stops there I think, is he next going to query the design of the L1 like the Aussies did. I have never ever come across a thermoblock machine that has been able to produce shots anywhere as good as I can do with my Classic whilst half awake.


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> What is it about Thermoblocks that you find so attractive in a machine . Modo mio is the lavazza pod machine isn't it ?


Not necessarily Thermoblock and not necessarily A Modo Mio. Thermoblock was used as an example control and A Modo Mio as an example of use that the espresso machine would get.

Other forum users are more experience with these machines than I am: With Moka pots I would consider myself pretty much an expert but with espresso machines I haven't even reached the newbie stage.

As far as I can see these machines depend on the construction of the boiler to hold heat and it is highly possible to get water that is either too hot or too cool and the only option to get more temperature control is to fit a P.I.D. I've been looking at the Silvia PID thread and to me the fitting of it would be an absolute nightmare which brings me to my next point: Why don't retailers sell them new with a P.I.D. already fitted? My last point is that if a P.I.D. is not really needed why do people fit them?

I am still highly attracted to the Rancilio Silvia V3 due to the description stating "semi-commercial" and I can save money by buying a bundle with the Rocky grinder. The only problem as I have already stated in temperature control. In that respect all roads lead to De'Longhi and Dualit, it appears.


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Woo hoo lavazza lover man is back....... Thermobloc technology is not new and is not that reliable either, you must be such an expert in the coffee world as you are going against the recommendations of a lot of people with a lot of experience in making great coffee, point blank lavazza a modo Mio is not a good machine have a look on eBay you pick them up for less than £20 second hand. The gaggia classic still retains a lot of the quality that it had before Philips, if it was so shite, why has it not been dropped from the lineup????? Anyway I hope your friend sees sense and doesn't listen to a word you tell them or crap pod coffee will be coming their way.


At some point you might decide to help someone instead of quoting phrases out of context and using them to launch a personal attack. But then again, maybe not.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Anthorn said:


> all roads lead to De'Longhi and Dualit, it appears.


:banghead:

Anthorn - Once you've bought your De'Longhi or Dualit come back and give us your review.

Before you buy though research temperature surfing on the Silvia - it will save you buying a PID as they are not necessary (just a nice to have). I got great shots from the Silvia by surfing.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

It must be all the inert gases he has inhaled from opening his beloved Lavazza packets. No-one anywhere in the world who is in the least bit serious about their coffee would go anywhere near the manual and semi-automatic machines from DeLonghi and Dualit, if you don't believe us go and check any other well renowned coffee sites from across the world.

Also if you consider the Classic to be technology well past it's sell by date why would you even look at a Silvia, it uses exactly the same method of heating it's water. The reality is that unless you get into the territory of the Expobar dual boiler at ~£1200 you are going to have some sort of temperature issues such as a need for cooling flushes etc on an HX machine.

The stark and simple reality as discussed many times on here is that yes the Silvia is a better machine, but at new prices its not worth the price differential between it and what a new Classic can be bought for, which allows you a much higher budget for *THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF EQUIPMENT* the grinder. If you do have the budget for a brand new Silvia IMHO you would be far far better off looking at the Nuova Simonelli Oscar for not a lot more money as it's a much much better HX machine.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Daren said:


> Take the e61 grouphead for example... It just works and you'll be pushed to better the design. 60 years old and still not bettered.


Actually, 52 years and counting!


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> Not necessarily Thermoblock and not necessarily A Modo Mio. Thermoblock was used as an example control and A Modo Mio as an example of use that the espresso machine would get.
> 
> Other forum users are more experience with these machines than I am: With Moka pots I would consider myself pretty much an expert but with espresso machines I haven't even reached the newbie stage.
> 
> ...


Don't get too hung up on temperature stability of classics and Sylvia's, yes they have a wide dead band but that may not make a big difference to you. Being able to adjust the temperature is a popular thing if you're trying to get the best out of lighter roasts but as you've stated before you like darker roasts. The only reason you see mention of temp problems with these machines is so many of us forum obsessive types use them and want to mod them, you don't see many of us using delonghis and therefore won't see us discussing temp problems, I would suspect they're less stable than the classic/Sylvia and the use of a thermoblocks is to save money. You don't see commercial machines touting thermoblocks after all.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Daren said:


> Before you buy though research temperature surfing on the Silvia - it will save you buying a PID as they are not necessary (just a nice to have). I got great shots from the Silvia by surfing.


Agree with you there Daren - temp surfing does make a difference.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Anthorn said:


> My last point is that if a P.I.D. is not really needed why do people fit them?


To gain greater control of temperature and, in the case of the high end Auberin offering, introduce pre-infusion as an option. They are not a nightmare to fit by the way.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> To gain greater control of temperature and, in the case of the high end Auberin offering, introduce pre-infusion as an option. They are not a nightmare to fit by the way.


Agreed, if you buy a kit it's easy to follow the instructions. It's only more difficult if you want to put your own components together.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Also the dualits with pressurised baskets make terrible coffee ( I speak from experience ) , whether they are classed as stable temperature or not . Please please please don't buy one , you will regret it.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Actually, 52 years and counting!


Maths not my strong point... Derrr (not enough coffee today)

I should have just said a 1961 design and let him do the maths.... The answer would have been delonghi.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

In most cases I am very helpful to forum members, as if you look back through other threads you will see, but I guess now and again someone comes along that just gets under my skin. By your own admission you are not an expert in the espresso stakes but you are in the moka pot stakes, which is fantastic as you could give valuable advice on here relative to the wonderfully simple and yet effective Italian brewing system.

But when it comes to espresso, an arena by your admission you are a complete newbie, you give out advice on using lavazza beans and slate me for stating what almost all users here accept as the best way of getting fab espresso and that is using freshly roasted beans from any number of reputable and expert roasters here. You then slag off what is probably the most recommended entry level machine anywhere on any coffee forum, yes it can be improved with a pid, but adding a pid is expensive so it is left as an aftermarket upgrade, yes you have to temperature surf to get the best out of it, but plenty of people that have built up there knowledge around owning and loving the classic learn to get to grips with this quickly and would highly recommend them to another person beginning there coffee trip.

So my apologies if you think I am being unhelpful to you, but this is deliberate as I want to be helpful to the OP who simply asked where they could buy a nonpressuried basket, not your inexperienced opinion based on a friend who is looking to you for advise about another machine!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

............................


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Daren said:


> Maths not my strong point... Derrr (not enough coffee today)
> 
> I should have just said a 1961 design and let him do the maths.... The answer would have been delonghi.


In the Delonghi run, the answer is surely Lavazza??


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> In the Delonghi run, the answer is surely Lavazza??


Boom Boom!!


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> In most cases I am very helpful to forum members, as if you look back through other threads you will see, but I guess now and again someone comes along that just gets under my skin. By your own admission you are not an expert in the espresso stakes but you are in the moka pot stakes, which is fantastic as you could give valuable advice on here relative to the wonderfully simple and yet effective Italian brewing system.
> 
> But when it comes to espresso, an arena by your admission you are a complete newbie, you give out advice on using lavazza beans and slate me for stating what almost all users here accept as the best way of getting fab espresso and that is using freshly roasted beans from any number of reputable and expert roasters here. You then slag off what is probably the most recommended entry level machine anywhere on any coffee forum, yes it can be improved with a pid, but adding a pid is expensive so it is left as an aftermarket upgrade, yes you have to temperature surf to get the best out of it, but plenty of people that have built up there knowledge around owning and loving the classic learn to get to grips with this quickly and would highly recommend them to another person beginning there coffee trip.
> 
> So my apologies if you think I am being unhelpful to you, but this is deliberate as I want to be helpful to the OP who simply asked where they could buy a nonpressuried basket, not your inexperienced opinion based on a friend who is looking to you for advise about another machine!


The problem is that you say what I have posted but don't qualify. Where are the quotes and links? You are being unhelpful: As can be clearly seen by anyone your goal is a personal attack and to that end you you twist and falsify my posts and as I have said fail to back it up with quotes and links.

On the Gaggia Classic I have used it several times and stated it's shortcomings which I consider to be true: Lose the widget and it's rendered useless unless you want coffee going everywhere. To avoid the use of the widget you have to buy the non-pressurised filter as an optional extra. I do not consider reporting shortcomings as "slagging off". I consider it an accurate review.

But your attitude to me is a two-way process: I would not touch any of your recommendations to me with a barge-pole. That's your problem and not mine!

Edit: Lastly, my advice to you is try to make an effort to grow up and leave your childish ways behind you!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Anthorn said:


> Not necessarily Thermoblock and not necessarily A Modo Mio. Thermoblock was used as an example control and A Modo Mio as an example of use that the espresso machine would get.
> 
> Other forum users are more experience with these machines than I am: With Moka pots I would consider myself pretty much an expert but with espresso machines I haven't even reached the newbie stage.
> 
> ...


Here you go the exact post quoted in its entirety where you state that with espresso machines you haven't even reached the newbie stage. What you cannot/will not get into your head is that people on here know what they are talking about and ARE experts in the field of espresso and espresso machines. I mean ffs if you are so hung up on what you seem to think is primitive technology why do you prefer a method of making your coffee that is little more than sticking a pot on a fire. I mean when Gaggia designed the Classic who were they to go about making such a machine and what did they know about espresso machines? Oh yeah I remember they guy who founded the company invented the modern day concept of the espresso machine.

Bottom line with your ridiculous argument regarding thermoblocks is no application that requires any modicum of real temperature control uses them, other than cheap more or less disposable consumer goods. No serious espresso machine uses thermoblocks as its source of brew water and steam, but then maybe Kees Van Der Westen and the boffins at la Marzocco and Nuova Simonelli are clueless and don't know what they are missing out on.

The bottom line here is one of proven fact: fresh, quality beans, properly roasted and freshly ground just before the coffee is made, no matter what your method of brewing, can make a far far better cup of coffee than any commodity grade mass roasted who knows when beans. Lavazza are not the be all and end all of coffee get over it already.

If you come on to any forum and express your ignorance in the way that you have done and tell know experts in their field that they are basically clueless and know nothing expect to get called out on it, and especially when the 2 gentleman in question happen to be 2 of the most genuine and helpful people you could meet and gives hours of their own time to freely help others improve their coffee making skills by way of advice, lending people equipment to try out often at a cost to themselves. I guess my message to you is get over it and try and learn from the wealth of experience on this forum instead of trying to pontificate like a Sunday supplement review.

Rant Over.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Often the best way of learning is from mistakes. Anthorn, get a dualit or delonghi if that's what you think is best. If you're happy with it, good for you. If you're not, come back for another recommendation.

But please just don't claim a delonghi or dualit will produce better espresso than a classic - there are several members who have had both and can attest to the quality of a shot from a classic.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think one of the best things with the Classic is TO lose the widget, along with the pressurised basket and about 3 bars of pressure.

Agreed it is criminal that they don't ship the non pressurised ones as standard. But I think it's Gaggias attempt to compete with the capsule / pod market.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I think one of the best things with the Classic is TO lose the widget, along with the pressurised basket and about 3 bars of pressure.
> 
> Agreed it is criminal that they don't ship the non pressurised ones as standard. But I think it's Gaggias attempt to compete with the capsule / pod market.


I think the reason they started shipping the classic with the pressurised basket and widget along with 13 bar of pressure was because

people like Anthorn seem to want these high pressure capable of producing "crema" from stake beans or pods. Afterall, 13 bar pressure seems to be a selling point now on these plastic pieces of kitchen jewelry! Anthorn, at least you can simply lift out the widget and stick in a new basket, the other machines you have mentioned will have pressurised portafilter handles and you won't have the option of lifting the widget out.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Thought I would do some proper research so I went to the font of all knowledge which is the Argos website. Folks it seems like we've all been wrong! You can buy new fangled blade grinder and a Delonghi eXpresso machine package for 35 pounds. The Argos reviewers say it's not quite as good as what you can buy in Starbucks (but its on par with my local petrol station) just add microwave milk and it's almost there. If you wanna save yourself another 5 pounds don't buy the blade grinder - you can buy some pre ground coffee in the supermarket - it's roasted in the last 5 years so should be okay. One reviewer mentioned Lavazza.... He must know what he's talking about as that's the expensive stuff in Asda.

I'm off to sell my equipment and cancel my subscription to a specialist bean roaster and then quickly pop down to Argos to get the Starbucks experience.

What do members on specialist forums know anyway! - just because they've been there and learned from their mistakes - Morons


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Here you go the exact post quoted in its entirety where you state that with espresso machines you haven't even reached the newbie stage. What you cannot/will not get into your head is that people on here know what they are talking about and ARE experts in the field of espresso and espresso machines. I mean ffs if you are so hung up on what you seem to think is primitive technology why do you prefer a method of making your coffee that is little more than sticking a pot on a fire. I mean when Gaggia designed the Classic who were they to go about making such a machine and what did they know about espresso machines? Oh yeah I remember they guy who founded the company invented the modern day concept of the espresso machine.
> 
> Bottom line with your ridiculous argument regarding thermoblocks is no application that requires any modicum of real temperature control uses them, other than cheap more or less disposable consumer goods. No serious espresso machine uses thermoblocks as its source of brew water and steam, but then maybe Kees Van Der Westen and the boffins at la Marzocco and Nuova Simonelli are clueless and don't know what they are missing out on.
> 
> ...


So how does all of that relate to the post you quoted? Personally, I would say none of it! It doesn't even relate to any of my other posts that I can see. And you have two bottom lines in your post. If you love your Gaggia Classic, fair enough. You're the one who's using it not me and you're entitled to voice your high opinion of it. But so am I entitled to voice my opinion and my opinion is that it's a piece of crap and I won't be buying it. Using the widget to correct a design fault is no better than using a band aid!


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> So how does all of that relate to the post you quoted? Personally, I would say none of it! It doesn't even relate to any of my other posts that I can see. And you have two bottom lines in your post. If you love your Gaggia Classic, fair enough. You're the one who's using it not me and you're entitled to voice your high opinion of it. But so am I entitled to voice my opinion and my opinion is that it's a piece of crap and I won't be buying it. Using the widget to correct a design fault is no better than using a band aid!


The widget is not to correct a design fault, it was never designed to take pressurised baskets until people like yourself started looking for 13 bars of pressure to extract some coffee coloured substance from a pod. It was kind of them though to at least do it in a way that can easily be replaced with a normal basket. It does have a good commercial sized portafilter.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> So how does all of that relate to the post you quoted? Personally, I would say none of it! It doesn't even relate to any of my other posts that I can see. And you have two bottom lines in your post. If you love your Gaggia Classic, fair enough. You're the one who's using it not me and you're entitled to voice your high opinion of it. But so am I entitled to voice my opinion and my opinion is that it's a piece of crap and I won't be buying it. Using the widget to correct a design fault is no better than using a band aid!


I think you're confusing why the widget and pressurised baskets were added.

They were for the mass market who wants to use it with pre ground coffee that produces a crema so that they can be under the impression that they're making a real coffee. It may have a crema but it tastes god awful.

Like all espresso machines they need a decent grinder to get good results.


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

There again, I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an espresso machine and use pods in it. They could get an ESE pod machine for 50 quid such as the Andrew James model on Amazon.

Let's talk reasonably and sensibly about the Gaggia Classic. What it comes down to is an old, obsolete machine with a hotch-potch of updates which make it appear modern and competitive with other newer models. Personally, I think they would have been better leaving it as old and obsolete.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> There again, I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an espresso machine and use pods in it. They could get an ESE pod machine for 50 quid such as the Andrew James model on Amazon.
> 
> Let's talk reasonably and sensibly about the Gaggia Classic. What it comes down to is an old, obsolete machine with a hotch-potch of updates which make it appear modern and competitive with other newer models. Personally, I think they would have been better leaving it as old and obsolete.


Well have a look at the gaggia baby then. More modern looks, same internals as a classic. Best of both worlds?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

you quite simply are amazing, if i wanted to go through all your previous posts and expose you for the espresso novice that you quite clearly are then I would, to be honest I am not interested in your point of view as you are not mine (which incidently is great because the advice I give out is usually well founded and based on a clear understanding of how to make espresso and the best equipment to acheive that based upon a specific budget).

Fact 1 (please try to process this)

The gaggia classic is the highest regarded entry level machine on this forum and most others ( every forum offers the same advice on the new variant, which is get rid of the widget (only used for preground because no pregraound really works well in the calssic) and get a standard basket.

Fact 2

You openly admitted as Charlie has so kindly posted that you are a relative newbie to espresso, do I need to troll through most of the drivel you post on espresso and beans to do that, no I dont, it is simply a fact, highlighted by yourself

Fact 3

Recently you posted that the members on here are narrow minded in their advice about beans (because you love lavazza and everyone else categorically knows there are better ways to get great espresso) about using local roasters who know what they are doing, about using freah beans to get the best out of their kit, pretty stock advice given to most memebrs by all experienced and new members alike on here (oh except you)

Fact 4

I really cant be bothered trying to express my standpoint with you anymore, you stated recently you were not going to post here anymore (again dont need to troll back through the posts, it is after all a fact) yet you elected to come back on and are surprised that when you start talking drivel again people pick up on it, not just me but a plethora of folk that know what they are talking about (have you even considered why you are the lone voice in relation to the classic?)

Anyway, you are right I am childish, but guess what I enjoy it as do many others here, please take a look at other threads and notice the childlike humour and retorts that make this a thoroughly enjoyable forum to participate in.


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Gangstarrrrr said:


> Well have a look at the gaggia baby then. More modern looks, same internals as a classic. Best of both worlds?


I've looked at the Baby and the Gran Gaggia Prestige Manual.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> There again, I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an espresso machine and use pods in it. They could get an ESE pod machine for 50 quid such as the Andrew James model on Amazon.
> 
> Let's talk reasonably and sensibly about the Gaggia Classic. What it comes down to is an old, obsolete machine with a hotch-potch of updates which make it appear modern and competitive with other newer models. Personally, I think they would have been better leaving it as old and obsolete.


How is it obsolete- adjective

1no longer produced or used;

I think what you may have already noticed is that the gaggia classic is still widely used and loved by coffee enthusiasts and therefore not obsolete. Yes there is more up to date technology but you'll pay much more for it. Have a look at the slayer 1 group if you want to see what a modern high end machine can look like but it costs 6500! It also still has a boiler just like the classic and not some thermoblock system.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I wouldn't be to upset if I had to use a classic for the rest of my days. It has its limitations which are widely known but with a bit of effort you can get some great shots out it. Just wouldn't offer to make coffees after dinner!

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> you quite simply are amazing, if i wanted to go through all your previous posts and expose you for the espresso novice that you quite clearly are then I would, to be honest I am not interested in your point of view as you are not mine (which incidently is great because the advice I give out is usually well founded and based on a clear understanding of how to make espresso and the best equipment to acheive that based upon a specific budget).


I've already said previously in this thread that I'm not new to espresso machines as you have already confirmed in "Fact 2" so why would you need to "expose me". That doesn't make sense.

Fact 3, qualify it. Link to that post. It's very easy to do: click the post number on the post, copy the URL from your browser address bar and post it. If the words "narrow minded" is not in the post you link to then what you say is not true. I know full well the post you are referring to but I'm not going to do your dirty work for you. But that doesn't relate to anything at all that I've posted in this thread.

You mention Lavazza and that is the root of the problem. Why on earth do you have such a problem with Lavazza to the extent that you stalk and publicly attack someone who openly admits to using it. I just asked my better half how long we've been using Lavazza beans and she says 23 years. Now if you delve into my posts you will see that my main purpose in coming onto this forum was to investigate beans from independent roaster. That leads to my current search for an espresso machine because those beans don't work in a moka pot and I've tried exhaustively. But all you can see is the word "Lavazza" and react to it like a bull reacts to a red flag.

Really, I would say give up on the stalking and personal attacks because you come across to me as irrational. Personally I'm an understanding kind of guy and will give anyone the benefit of the doubt but I'm having very great difficulty here.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> There again, I don't understand why anyone would want to buy an espresso machine and use pods in it. They could get an ESE pod machine for 50 quid such as the Andrew James model on Amazon.
> 
> Let's talk reasonably and sensibly about the Gaggia Classic. What it comes down to is an old, obsolete machine with a hotch-potch of updates which make it appear modern and competitive with other newer models. Personally, I think they would have been better leaving it as old and obsolete.


Sometimes the old ways are the best if you're comparing it with an ESE pod.

Old ways like a Gaggia Classic without the pressurised basket or a Stovetop pot


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Some "Classic" quotes:



Anthorn said:


> it doesn't benefit from new technology such as electronic temperature control and Thermoblock





Anthorn said:


> Even the humble AEG/Electrolux A Modo Mio machine has electronic temperature control





Anthorn said:


> These machines are pretty much from the Ark





Anthorn said:


> I am still highly attracted to the Rancilio Silvia V3 due to the description stating "semi-commercial"





Anthorn said:


> Lose the widget and it's rendered useless unless you want coffee going everywhere





Anthorn said:


> What it comes down to is an old, obsolete machine with a hotch-potch of updates which make it appear modern and competitive with other newer models


Genius! Where is Glenn to dish out a KeepCup? This is the funniest thread of quotes I've read on the forum.

Having said that I have seen the error of my ways, what have I been doing with my Classic all these years? I then wasted my money on a new grinder and fresh beans when I could have saved a packet getting a state of the art, most modern technology you could ever imagine THERMOBLOCK system. WOW these sound good, I need to get into the 21st century with such innovative technology delivering much superior control and for a fraction of the price.

In summary I've been diddled buying a Classic and I'm off to Argos to buy a top of the range new machine and popping next door for some pre-ground Lavazza.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I know it's probably not worth throwing in my 2 cents, but hey what are forums for.

Antorn - You claim you want to have a proper discussion around the Gaggia Classic, but you dont seem to want to accept anything that goes against your beliefs. It is pointless to have a discussion if your opinions are made up.

One of the main things you seem to be asking is why the Classic needs a pressurised widget to make 'good' coffee. Here is the very simple answer: It is not 'easy' to make coffee well.

Consider this. In order to make good coffee with the classic you need a good grinder which costs *ATLEAST* as much as the machine itself. If you then grind fresh beans at the right grind size, tamp correctly, and use an unpressurised basket, you will then pull a good shot of espresso, way better than your local chain shop.

Now, if I am right you are asking the following question: "If I need all this to get good espresso why doesn't it come with/tell me this?"

The simple answer is marketing and laziness. It is *NOT POSSIBLE* to get a good espresso with anything less than the process mentioned above. I am discounting pods and fully automatic machines here as they complicate the argument and are widely considered (by anyone who has had great espresso) to produce poor espresso, no matter the price point. It is impossible to market this process to the home user and expect them to buy into your machine when other companies with cheaper machine 'claim' they can do the same. The only way to sell you machine to the ignorant masses is to stick in a pressurised basket so it looks like its making a good drink, when, in fact, it is not.

If it is still a question of why, just answer your question with the words 'marketing' and 'mass sales'.

A few more things to finish off:

A thermoblock is (currently) a worse design than the Gaggia Classics boiler, people are working on changing this as the thermoblock is (in theory) a better design for the home machine. Even if someone designs the perfect thermoblock with the perfect temperature it WILL STILL NEED A PRESSURISED BASKET TO SELL TO THE IGNORANT MASSES.

A pressurised basket solves the problem of old and stale beans NOT the issue of fluctuating temperature.

The gaggia classic uses the same basic principles to brew espresso as the most expensive/best machines on the market today. Infact it uses the same basic principles as a termoblock. the thermoblock could be considered a "micro boiler" in this sense.

Finally:

Not one person here would find it 'obvious' that coffeechap was launching a personal attack on you because he was not. Like most here he likely found it incredibly frustrating that a newcomer to espresso was advising a new member with incredibly bad advice that goes against everything that anyone who knows anything about making a good espresso would give. Please, if you think I am being unfair dont ask me to do the work highlighting your lack of knowledge, go through your own posts and take anything you have written and resurch it yourself before you decide to broadcast it as fact.

Coming on here and having such a go at coffeechap is like going into a restuarant and telling the head chef he doesnt know how to make food. I think every one of us here have benefited from his incredibly knowledge and generosity, he is one of the pillars of this community.

If you believe that final bit to be untrue then perhaps this is not the place for you, as I can assure you without exception that everyone here bar you knows its truth.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

"Like most here he likely found it incredibly frustrating that a newcomer to espresso was advising a new member with incredibly bad advice that goes against everything that anyone who knows anything about making a good espresso would give. "

That sums it up perfectly ..........


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Sometimes the old ways are the best if you're comparing it with an ESE pod.
> 
> Old ways like a Gaggia Classic without the pressurised basket or a Stovetop pot


If by stovetop you mean moka pots, they are not in the same league as espresso machines. There is a body of opinion that the Bialetti moka pot can't be improved if we want to end up with a moka pot. Alessi which is part of the Bialetti extended family but not connected with the Bialetti company produced a design which is said to be based on the original moka pot but it's no different. Bodum designed a moka pot with a tube connecting the bottom chamber with the upper chamber so the upper pot can be removed but that is really not that much different. What we get is cosmetic changes but the process of making the coffee is exactly the same.

With espresso machines, technology has moved on but the machines we regard as home machines have not moved along with it. We still in essence are using machines which are 30 years out of date. Unlike the moka pot espresso machines can be improved and have been improved.

btw I discovered why retailers don't sell machines with PID already fitted: It invalidates the guarantee.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Was desperate for a coffee this morning so I had to make do with that obsolete machine I have in my kitchen

















It was horrible, I had to force it down. If anyone could suggest a shiny new high tech machine for 130 quid that could make better please let me know.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Anthorn said:


> btw I discovered why retailers don't sell machines with PID already fitted: It invalidates the guarantee.


I'm assuming you mean why retailers dont fit an aftermarket pid and then sell the machine?

Then you would be correct, taking the top off the machine 'invalidates the guarantee' but you can obviously put the top back without the manufacturer knowing.

You can also remove a PID without the manufacturer knowing it was ever there.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bugger me ( pardon my French ) some of us are using lever machines whoose design has either not changed one iota ( caravel ,la pav etc ) or has just been updated slightly ( l1 ) . How old are these core designs ? Does this mean they are invalid or make bad espresso ? I don't think so . Sometimes technology makes things smaller or quicker or cheaper, but it doesn't mean that it is Better .


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Turns out my house is built using the same basic design as they have been using for 60 years... I need to move

Turns out my car is built using the same basic design they have been using since the first mercedes hit the roads in 1885... I'm walking from now on.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> I'm assuming you mean why retailers dont fit an aftermarket pid and then sell the machine?
> 
> Then you would be correct, taking the top off the machine 'invalidates the guarantee' but you can obviously put the top back without the manufacturer knowing.
> 
> You can also remove a PID without the manufacturer knowing it was ever there.


And we don't have a huge number of Silvia retailers here but was there not a post recently where one of them had offered to fit the PID. If you were in America on the other hand Seattle coffee gear do sell the silvia with the PID fitted, maybe even by the factory?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Neill said:


> Was desperate for a coffee this morning so I had to make do with that obsolete machine I have in my kitchen
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks terrible. You poor thing


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Turns out my house is built using the same basic design as they have been using for 60 years... I need to move
> 
> Turns out my car is built using the same basic design they have been using since the first mercedes hit the roads in 1885... I'm walking from now on.


To be fair I was hoping that the hover boards and flying cars from back to the future would have appeared by now.....

Where's my jetpac


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Jetpacks are here...

http://www.fastcoexist.com/3015684/futurist-forum/your-first-personal-jetpack-could-actually-go-on-sale-next-year

Hoverboards notsomuch


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Sod those complicated machines.... I've found the future and it's in a sachet; just add hot water. Mmmm (if only Lavazza did them)

https://www.cloudfreebies.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/nescaffe-cappucino.jpg


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

Big thanks to those who have replied and I've learned a lot. For me personally what it comes down to is that the Gaggia Classic does have have its shortcomings; that's without doubt; and I'm not willing to accept those shortcomings. Anything further I have to post will just be repeating what I have already posted. So I'm done with this thread. Once again big thanks to those who have taken the time to reply to me. Very much appreciated.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> That looks terrible. You poor thing


It was horrible Gary, I'm off to Starbucks to wash my mouth out.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> Big thanks to those who have replied and I've learned a lot. For me personally what it comes down to is that the Gaggia Classic does have have its shortcomings; that's without doubt; and I'm not willing to accept those shortcomings. Anything further I have to post will just be repeating what I have already posted. So I'm done with this thread. Once again big thanks to those who have taken the time to reply to me. Very much appreciated.


In all seriousness, if you hadn't just managed to burn all bridges with some of your statements there I'm sure someone near you with a classic would have been very happy to show you how easy it can be to get a decent shot. Any way. Have a nice day.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Anthorn said:


> If by stovetop you mean moka pots, they are not in the same league as espresso machines.


Well I'm glad we agree on something.

Yes they are in a different leagues and have completely different qualities. I am an espresso fan but I have to say that I really like stovetop pots too. You can get great results when using the right grind and fresh beans.

You'd do well to listen to some of the advice regarding espresso machines and espresso making otherwise your road to espresso will be paved with disappointment. It's hard enough with the right advice.









Best of luck with whatever you choose


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

In the words of Eric Cartman " screw you guys " . I'm, off to find a robot barista.

http://qz.com/134661/briggo-coffee-army-of-robot-baristas-could-mean-the-end-of-starbucks-as-we-know-it/

Long article but worth a read , depressing assumptions made by some people on there .


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Whatever you do, please let us know how you get on, other users, especially noobs may well find it helpful.


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## winterbottom (Dec 11, 2013)

I agree you need a decent grinder more important than the coffee machine. if you cant afford one just yet buy a hand grinder for now.


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