# La Cimbali M21 Junior with rotory pump - thoughts?



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Hi folks, what do you think of this model as an upgrade from G-classic? I have an offer for one but don't know much about it. The seller can not provide production year only pictures and price of 500 quids.I am currently using a few Gaggia classics.

Thank you!









PS I will keep classics coz I love them


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

looks like a good upgrade route to me



The M21 Junior Espresso Machine is a compact, one group coffee machine with programmable dosing, a built in volumetric pump, auto boiler refill and an automatic valve for maximum functionality. The stainless steel steam and hot water wands are multi-directional allowing you maximum creativity for your drinks. The M21 features 4 programmable dosage selections and comes complete with 2 group handles, one double and one single at 58mm. The M21 is also available in the S model, with a manual fill built in tank which means no plumbing is required - ideal for the smaller space where a connection to the mains is not desired.

Combining functionality, with a stylish compact design, the M21 Junior espresso machine is designed for those who want to offer delicious espresso based drinks but are limited by space.

DT1 Spec:

Output: 90 espressos per hour

Boiler capacity: 2.5 litres

Size (H x W x D): 430 x 320 x 470mm

Weight: 33kg
​


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

From the cursory look provided by those pictures it looks like its in really good condition. For a machine that costs over £2k new £500 seems like a really good price to me - it will without a doubt be a big upgrade over the classic.

My only thoughts if I were making the upgrade would be if I wanted anything else more (not that you would necessarily get it for the money) like a DB or Lever. My VBM Domobar is of similar age and pedigree but doesn't keep it's group head temperature in check (this may be as its designed as a commercial, continuous use machine, not a 2-3 times a day home use machine) - I have a group head thermometer to know whats going on - but the whole process of managing it makes me think I would like a machine that is better at this - A DB or similar.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

First thoughts are it look like it needs to be plumbed in. Probably suited to a guest house or pub where they can use a basket that takes coffee bag things (like round tea bags but with coffee in), so they can drop one in and press a button to get a measured dose. Heat some milk up and Robert's your mother's brother..

I'd also be thinking if it goes wrong, how much would it cost to fix? Looks nice though.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Plumbing will be an issue for me.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

@Rhys - why do you think it's suited to the coffee tea bag things?

But if you can't plump in then it's probably a no go, don't rotary pumps need line pressure?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Dylan said:


> @Rhys - why do you think it's suited to the coffee tea bag things?
> 
> But if you can't plump in then it's probably a no go, don't rotary pumps need line pressure?


Just my experience in seeing similar machines at the Subway at a garage near me. They have a Fracino single group and use the coffee-bags. It's just a portafilter basket designed for them, nothing special I don't think.

As for rotary pumps, I think some machines that are tank fed with the option of plumb in use rotary pumps? L-R for example? (they don't use vibe pumps anymore)


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Rhys said:


> Just my experience in seeing similar machines at the Subway at a garage near me. They have a Fracino single group and use the coffee-bags. It's just a portafilter basket designed for them, nothing special I don't think.
> 
> As for rotary pumps, I think some machines that are tank fed with the option of plumb in use rotary pumps? L-R for example? (they don't use vibe pumps anymore)


Yea, I have seen such machines in restaurants (terrible coffee) but the machines are typically normal machines as equally capable as any other of using a normal basket and ground coffee.

Cant remember where I read that rotary was line fed only, may well have been guesswork. In any case when I bought my VBM domobar it was a plumbed in machine, but I now have an external water tank (inverted water bottle) attached to a silicon tube which I use as the inlet. Works a treat, except for the extra counter space.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

It's had a new pumphead fitted recently.

Spares easy to source & repairs straightforward to do.

Cimbali always put serial number stickers on original components such as solenoid valves, ECUs, etc, so Cimbali UK can advise on vintage of the machine. The boiler may also have a plate with test date, etc on it.

Rotary pumps will run OK with a water "bottle" sitting alongside / above the machine.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Dylan said:


> Yea, I have seen such machines in restaurants (terrible coffee) but the machines are typically normal machines as equally capable as any other of using a normal basket and ground coffee.
> 
> Cant remember where I read that rotary was line fed only, may well have been guesswork. In any case when I bought my VBM domobar it was a plumbed in machine, but I now have an external water tank (inverted water bottle) attached to a silicon tube which I use as the inlet. Works a treat, except for the extra counter space.


I think the only real difference with rotary pumps is with a tank you don't get line pressure, and with plumber in you do.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Rhys said:


> I think the only real difference with rotary pumps is with a tank you don't get line pressure, and with plumber in you do.


Only really a problem if your machine uses line pressure for pre infusion I'd have thought.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Just adjust the pumphead to give the required 9 bar....


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Although it is a real deal, I gave up the idea to buy this for a home espresso machine. Thanks to all commented in the thread.


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