# Rocket Giotto and Eureka Zenith 65E - a wise choice?



## ianrn (Dec 31, 2014)

Hi All,

Compliments on an excellent and informative forum which I have stumbled across researching a coffee machine choice.

I have been trawling through the wealth of information here but am in a spin and would appreciate some bespoke advice and wisdom if anyone would be prepared to help.

I have owned a Kitchen Aid Artisan Espresso machine paired with the kitchen aid grinder for several years but am in the market for an upgrade - for the love of coffee.

I have scraped together a budget of around £1800 for machine and grinder package (don't tell the wife!). Believing a dual boiler to the best option I was looking at an Expobar Dual Leva and made a stop by Bella Barista to check it out. A plethora of excellent advice later and it was suggested that perhaps I would be better looking at a higher spec HX machine rather than a lower range Dual Boiler machine. The Rocket Giotto was suggested. It seems good advice but now I am in a quandary.

I am looking for new not SH (warranty, convenience, availablility etc) and have no plans to plumb in.


Does the espresso benefit from rotary vs vibration (e.g. evoluzione)? I understand vibration is noisier, limits plumb in options and possibly less durable over long term but I can live with that and would rather shave £130 from the price.

The cooling flush seems much less of a hassle than I expected - Is higher spec HX a better option than DB?

Are the Rocket Giotto and Eureka Zenith 65E good choices for my budget - are there other machine/options that members would recommend?

I was going to add a attento click tamping mat to my order. Are these any good - or just a useless gadget - would I be better with a pair of scales?


Thanks in advance.

Ian


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Ian

Go for the rotary pump

Forget the clicky mat and buy some scales

I think the Rockets come with decent tampers now - check with Bella Barista, they will advise

Good combo for the price.

HX vs DB - they are very different machines

The cooling flush you will master easily on an HX

What type of drinks will you be making (and how many in succession?)

If only a few each day then HX is fine. If lots and lots (one after the other) and you have a large steaming requirement then DB is the only way to go

There can be too much information online so go with your gut instinct.

They're both good choices and will be worlds apart from the previous setup.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

You won't be disappointed with the rocket , definatly go for the rotary pump , and don't be put off about cooling flush it really is No hassle at all with the rocket and very easy to work out .


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## ianrn (Dec 31, 2014)

Thanks for the replies - what is the benefit of the rotary pump? I am trying to justify the additional expense.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ianrn said:


> Thanks for the replies - what is the benefit of the rotary pump? I am trying to justify the additional expense.


Quieter .....


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Lasts longer but is more expensive to replace


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

As Mr boots says quieter, less vibration and ideal if you change your mind about plumb in option .


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Can't comment on the machine choice but if you are wishing to stick to a new grinder then can wholeheartedly recommend the 65e at the price point you looking at, especailly from BB as cracking warranty and a pleasure to deal with as you have no doubt already discovered.

As to the scales rather than the clicky mat, (Glenn post above) the scales if you don't have already are for weighing in grounds to the portafilter and weighing out put in the cup so need to be of the 0.1g electronic type available cheaply on flea bay (£5 up) or Asda for about £7-8 for some small Salter scales noting these are unlikely to weigh more than 500g so please don't use them to test your tamping pressure ( bathroom scales required for this  )

Personally, as a creature of habit and someone who knows not their own strength (Tae Kwon-Do), I do still use my attento click mat for every shot. I would still buy another if in the same positions as yourself but as others have said, depends on what else you could spend the £28 on (you could use it for a while and then sell it on here, think the last one went for about £20 inc posting?) that would improve your coffee more.

Grinder, yes; attento, maybe; Scales, definately. Maybe also a nice milk jug if not got one already?

Lots of shiny things at BB.... always tempting.

Hope of some help

John


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## Snaxmuppet (Apr 20, 2012)

I bought a Rocket Evo (HX, rotary pump) just before Christmas from Bella Barista after a lot of research to what was most suitable.

I went to BB to see them in action and they were very helpful spending over 2 hrs with me trying the different machines and talking about the benefits of the different options. I went there expecting to buy a dual boiler and came away with the Evo... HX.

The conclusions I arrived at for me were:

- I make 2-6 coffees a day. the benefit of the DB was never going to be realised

- The rotary pump is much quieter and makes brewing more enjoyable for me!

- I may want to plumb in when I move home so rotary gave me that option

- The HX flush is a total non-event. Takes just a few seconds and not an issue

- The PID on any HX machine is of no great benefit as it only controls boiler temp

Bearing all that in mind it was a bit of a no-brainer for me. The Evo was an HX, with rotary pump, without PID. Perfect! There are others but I wanted a Rocket and I had limited budget.

I would say that the rotary is worth the extra. The PID pointless on a HX. A DB only of real benefit if brewing lots of consecutive shots.

I got the BB package with the Eureka Mignon 2 grinder. I did consider the 65E and although the Mignon is working fine now wish I'd got the 65E but it wasn't in the package and would have costed more than I wanted to pay. I may upgrade at some point.

So, based on my research and limited experience I would say:

- HX rather than DB

- Rotary rather than vibration

- PID not required

- keep plumb in option open

- 65E yes

- clicky tamp mat - don't know

- portafilter stand yes (I had a very messy accident with a single pf while tamping!)

So for me it was the Evo rather than the Plus.

Just my opinion!


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

R58 & 65e here also & they make a fantastic pairing!

Certainly far more capable that I will ever need or be!

I have found the PID controller very useful though as the default boiler temp was 92' & workshop recommended 94' so was a very easy adjust to increase the temp & the shots were noticeably better for it so would defiantly recommend the 'PID' option!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

The only drawback I've found with the evo is the drip tray although well built it doesn't take long before it needs emptying


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## ianrn (Dec 31, 2014)

Many thanks all - your comments have really helped bring some clarity to my thinking. I am leaning heavily towards a Rocket Evo (great info, thanks Snaxmuppet). Just need to work out the cash flow and decide on accessories I need then I will phone BB to place my order.

I am sure I will be back for more advice once it all arrives...


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