# Another piece of Kickstarter crap



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Not really going to work is it.....plus how on earth did that couple take it on a picnic in the country!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/flairespresso/flair-espresso-maker


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I see it working.

I can see the appeal of a machine with no electronics involved thats well designed and made from good materials.

I cannot however see why anyone would feel the need to take any espresso machines on a picnic or up a mountain or anywhere other than at home or at work no matter how portable. Its just unnecessary.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Looks like the Presso/ROK concept but with easier preheating of the 'group' & they work reasonably, if you don't mind a longer drink.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Looks like the Presso/ROK concept but with easier preheating of the 'group' & they work reasonably, if you don't mind a longer drink.


Surely you can put as much or as little water into the cylinder as you want, no ?

also there is a difference between this and the ROK explained on the comments section of the kickstarter link

"the force you apply on the handle is directly transferred (and multiplied by 9 times) onto the piston, as the extraction is occurring. (For instance, if you stop midway moving the Flair handle, the extraction stops instantly, unlike the ROK.) This means it's easier to produce a rich, dark golden crema with Flair."


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Same functional simplicity as the Ararex Caravel and that was in production for decades.

Retail price around $160 - not extortionate and should be capable of delivering decent shots - just like the Caravel.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Surely you can put as much or as little water into the cylinder as you want, no ?.


Of course, and you can squeeze out as much or as little of that (that doesn't get eaten up by the puck) too. But, with the ROK/Presso, I found it easier to hit consistent & tasty, ball-park extractions at a 1:5 ratio... but to be honest I only did 3 dialling in brews (in response to a query on the forum), then 10 more samples, maybe if I had put more time into it I could have dropped the ratio a bit. I'm not sure the ROK hits anything like the pressures being discussed on the Flair, if Flair makes life easier (more pressure, less preheating, better shower screen), more power to it.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Looks good - especially if you're someone who travels a lot (hence I have my Cafflano) and doesn't want to lug damageable equipment around. I can see it selling to travelling sales people, circus clowns, campers etc but it's a fairly niche market.

Have you ever tried the "coffee" in a hotel room? I can see this working.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

What happened to the last piece of kickstarter crap? I'm still waiting for my sieves and little wooden box


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jimbocz said:


> What happened to the last piece of kickstarter crap? I'm still waiting for my sieves and little wooden box


Really, you mean even that didn't deliver yet??


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jimbocz said:


> What happened to the last piece of kickstarter crap? I'm still waiting for my sieves and little wooden box


I'm still waiting for grinder that got funding a year before that...and my sieves & little wooden box (starts shipping mid November if you read your updates).

It's not a shop, it's just a way to get funding for your prototype to be manufactured. Several projects I have seen simply don't have a working prototype at all (none mentioned so far on this thread though).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The only thing I don't understand, that couple drinking spros at a picnic or whatever in the great outdoors....where is the kettle?

Did they use a flask, if so was the spro sour...how does it get on in the winter.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Maybe some bright spark will start a Kickstarter campaign for some kind of fire making device, so you can heat water outdoors, though I can't for the life of me imagine how this might be achieved...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Maybe some bright spark will start a Kickstarter campaign for some kind of fire making device, so you can heat water outdoors, though I can't for the life of me imagine how this might be achieved...


PID controlled thermonuclearsemiconductor


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

They forgot that 70% of consumers who use espresso machines actually make cappuccinos/latte's etc, so need the steam wand their gaggia or whatever offers them


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Stevie said:


> They forgot that 70% of consumers who use espresso machines actually make cappuccinos/latte's etc, so need the steam wand their gaggia or whatever offers them


Already plenty of stand alone, portable, espresso only devices on the market & I heard Italians generally don't have milk in coffee after 11am.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

advert is all wrong - cue james bond quickly assembling sniper rifle from parts in a briefcase - ends up with espresso maker - makes espresso - then throws it at George Clooney taking his head clean off - now that would get funded


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hmmm. just looking at the Flair demo clip again, there doesn't seem to be any shower screen in the metal cylinder, I'm wondering if this is a bit of an oversight?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> I'm still waiting for grinder that got funding a year before that...and my sieves & little wooden box (starts shipping mid November if you read your updates).
> 
> It's not a shop, it's just a way to get funding for your prototype to be manufactured. Several projects I have seen simply don't have a working prototype at all (none mentioned so far on this thread though).


https://www.kruveinc.com/collections/pre-order

I'm guessing these are the sieves? look interesting, did you go for the 12 or 6s?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> https://www.kruveinc.com/collections/pre-order
> 
> I'm guessing these are the sieves? look interesting, did you go for the 12 or 6s?


Think I upgraded to the full set, better range of intervals for nerdiness. But I think even the basic 2 sieve set would be useful for communicating grind size to each other.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Several projects I have seen simply don't have a working prototype at all (none mentioned so far on this thread though).


That's actually against the rules of Kickstarter (what few there are). If a project gets enough backing Kickstarter will request that the creators show them the working prototype. I think plenty of small projects slip through the cracks however.

Mentions it at the bottom of the page here: https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Hmmm. just looking at the Flair demo clip again, there doesn't seem to be any shower screen in the metal cylinder, I'm wondering if this is a bit of an oversight?


I saw this, I guess if you are careful it should disturb the bed too much. It's the same deal with the Portaspresso, you fill with hot water then turn over onto a tamped bed of coffee.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

MWJB said:


> I heard Italians generally don't have milk in coffee after 11am.


I heard Italians generally make espresso 14g in 2oz out after 11am


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I heard Italians generally make espresso 14g in 2oz out after 11am


...and....?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I heard Italians generally make espresso 14g in 2oz out after 11am


Or even 7grm in 1oz after 5.30am


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dylan said:


> That's actually against the rules of Kickstarter (what few there are). If a project gets enough backing Kickstarter will request that the creators show them the working prototype. I think plenty of small projects slip through the cracks however.
> 
> Mentions it at the bottom of the page here: https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prototypes


You know what they say about rules  There have been a few brewers that either don't appear to meet makers claims, or achieve a basic level of normal function. I wouldn't expect Kickstarter to evaluate these to any practical level, nor take the fact that they are happy as any degree of product approval.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> You know what they say about rules  There have been a few brewers that either don't appear to meet makers claims, or achieve a basic level of normal function. I wouldn't expect Kickstarter to evaluate these to any practical level, nor take the fact that they are happy as any degree of product approval.


Yea don't get me wrong, I have been stung by projects which were basically just theft and Kickstarter do nothing about it, they don't even reply to complaints. But I have also backed things which have been cancelled because they couldn't show kickstarter a working prototype. I think the difference was that the former raised £13k, where as the latter raised $600k.

It is painfully easy to set up a project that will raise over £10k and then delay and delay and pretend you are having production problems and then just never ship anything. £10k is a lot of money for one person and 20 mins setting up a campaign. you really do have to be careful who you back on Kickstarter.


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