# Weak/Watery Espresso Shots



## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Hi Guys,

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did trying searching but couldn't find the answer to my quesition. I'm having an issue with espresso shots blonding quite quickly and becoming watery. I've been using Coffee Bean Shop Mocha Guatemala blend, which I like as it does produce a nice crema, however there is clearly something I am not doing correctly. I have a Rancilio Silvia and Rocky Grinder, I never weigh the beans, just eye ball when I'm filling the double basket in the PF, stopping occasionally to distribute the clumped grounds. I'm not sure if it's the grind, dose, tamp etc that's causing the early blonding, which then turns into a watery mess poring out of the spouts. The coffee tastes good (ish) but it's not as full bodied as I believe it could be. I never overload the PF and always tamp to the ridge in the standard double basket. Can anyone who has more experience than I do perhaps point me in the direction or changing something I'm doing in the process which could be causing this?

Many thanks in advance

Ross


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Weigh the beans (14 or so Grammes). Grind a bit finer and try, then grind finer until you hit the spot.

Remember that on a Silvia you have to temperature surf.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

In my experience weighing is the way forward. Mostly as just eyeing the "full" point when grinding into a portafilter always overloads the basket. I would get usually +2g this way as opposed to actually weighing in the grinds. This then requires a coarser grind and/or heavier tamp which tends to lead to blonding.

My best results are with a low dose, or maybe I should say accurate dose (15g +/- 0.2g in a 15g VST), with a fine grind and light tamp.


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## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for your speedy reply. I think you may be right and I'm going to purchase some mini scales today. I always temp surf on the Silvia but now I'm thinking about it, I could be grinding a bit too coarse and tamping too firmly. I guess that would that effect the quality of the shot? I could try to grind a bit finer like you have mentioned but to also tamp a little lighter too? I'll get there eventually....

Thanks

Ross


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## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thank you forzajuve for your reply. Bit of a noob question, but what is a VST? Is it a type of basket with straight sides?

Thanks

Ross


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

VST is a precision engineered basket designed at different capacities: 15g, 18g, 22g, maybe also a 7g?

Basically it is to help get an even extraction as the holes are exactly (to a certain high degree) the same size. They do a straight and ridged version. Maybe something to consider in the future but weighing is a must in my book. Look on ebay/amazon, there are several aimed at the drugs......errr I mean gold weighing market to 0.01g accuracy, although probably more like 0.1g but good enough.


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## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Ok excellent, thank you for your help. I will start weighing from now on, grinding finer with a lighter tamp as I think I'm doing the exact opposite at the moment.

Cheers


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I'm sure there was a link to a video by MikeHag using a calibrated espro tamper somewhere but cant find it for now. That was eye opening when demonstrating how much pressure to apply when tamping, clue: a lot less than no doubt you will be doing at the moment!

Maybe Mike can provide the link?


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## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Yes my tamping is probably way too firm, which would mean I would need to grind finer and tamp lighter. I'll try that this weekend as I've ran out of coffee beans. Just placed another order with Coffee Bean Shop so I'll let them sit for a day or two, then try them out on Saturday or Sunday.

Cheers

Ross


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Frankly, and without meaning to gainsay Forzajuve, I'd not be spending money on trinkets like £60 tampers and £25 baskets when the issue is more fundamental. Those things won't make a tad of difference if basic technique isn't correct.

Tamp pressure is pretty much neither here nor there as long as it consistent (so that you can eliminate it as a variable). If you go to Italy you probably may not ever set eyes on a tamper. They grind finer and just lightly tamp with the prong tamper on the grinder.

Weigh your beans as different grind settings and different beans will give different volumes of grinds for the same weight.

You also need to make sure you are producing more or less the same volume ( or weight) of drink every time. In practice just filling an espresso cup to about 3/4 or so full for a double is in the ballpark


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## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for yoour feedback Expobarista. I know I need scales to weight the beans, so I'll be investing in a pair of those, and will see where I go from there....

Cheers

Ross


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Expobarista said:


> Frankly, and without meaning to gainsay Forzajuve, I'd not be spending money on trinkets like £60 tampers and £25 baskets when the issue is more fundamental. Those things won't make a tad of difference if basic technique isn't correct.


Totally agree, not suggesting that these need to be purchased but in terms of achieving a consistent approach they are there as possibilities. If you have a consistent weight and tamp then you eliminate two variables and very quickly you get to a place where only slight tweaks are required to hone your technique. You can take things further such as buying a PID rather than temperature surfing (I dont) and buy fancy tampers, but for me if you tamp lightly and weigh you are in a good place to start from.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Just seen this. As requested...


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## rosco29 (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for everyone's input. Fresh beans were ordered this morning and I'm picking some scales up too, so I'll give all this a try and see how I get on.

Cheers


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## steve206 (Apr 24, 2012)

I was having the same problems as you, although i found by grindingreally fine, i was able to 'choke' my Gaggia, getting a nice steady flow, at a good rate with loads of crema. My real breakthrough was using fresh roasted coffee, really fresh, one day old! I dont have a scales but i will invest tomorow so i can keep everything consistent. I think a very fine grind is important as well. What machine and grinder have you got?


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