# Do you find a WDT tool useful with a niche?



## SafetyThird (Aug 16, 2020)

From what I've read, the Niche gives a very even grind size without clumps. Does a WDT tool make much of a difference if you just pour the ground coffee into the portafilta? I can see it being useful with a grinder that perhaps is less even but figured I'd ask how people find it in practice. My Niche won't arrive until November so just doing a bit of thinking ahead of getting it.


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

I don't usually bother, just shake the grounds in the Niche cup.

If the beans are very oily it maybe beneficial to use a tool to stop any clumping.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

SafetyThird said:


> From what I've read, the Niche gives a very even grind size without clumps. Does a WDT tool make much of a difference if you just pour the ground coffee into the portafilta? I can see it being useful with a grinder that perhaps is less even but figured I'd ask how people find it in practice. My Niche won't arrive until November so just doing a bit of thinking ahead of getting it.


 I never use one.


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

I no longer routinely indulge in wdt since my Niche arrived. I've tried it a couple of times on the Niche output, only to find that it made no difference that was discernible (to me) in the taste of the coffee.

One less thing to think about 👍🏼

Regards,
John


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## SafetyThird (Aug 16, 2020)

Thanks folks, that's good to hear. one less thing to fuss with.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I did various tests across different beans while I was experimenting with my shot prep routine.

Long story short, for lighter roasts I do find shots benefit in terms of consistency from a quick WDT. This is true when using "filter" roasts or omni-roasts that are on the light side.

For anything more developed I don't find it necessary.

Keep in mind I am grinding quite fine with long pre-infusions.


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## Akp (May 2, 2020)

catpuccino said:


> I did various tests across different beans while I was experimenting with my shot prep routine.
> Long story short, for lighter roasts I do find shots benefit in terms of consistency from a quick WDT. This is true when using "filter" roasts or omni-roasts that are on the light side.
> For anything more developed I don't find it necessary.
> Keep in mind I am grinding quite fine with long pre-infusions.


I use WDT (with niche and lighter roasts) and have noticed the same thing. With my partners coffee (which is medium to dark) WDT doesn't make much of a difference.

Thanks for the posting as I don't think I would have put it down to roast level, as not done much experimenting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Benjamin8732 (Aug 6, 2020)

Interesting observations about impact of WDT on the level of roast!

I use WDT(Londinium tool) with niche and mostly on medium roasts: I do find it does make a difference i.e. no channelling and consistent shot times.



catpuccino said:


> I did various tests across different beans while I was experimenting with my shot prep routine.
> 
> Long story short, for lighter roasts I do find shots benefit in terms of consistency from a quick WDT. This is true when using "filter" roasts or omni-roasts that are on the light side.
> 
> ...


 Do you grind directly into the portafilter or what is your routine if not using WDT on more developed roasts?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

WDT helps me with every grinder from $100 to $3000 provided I use beans from light to medium. For Niche you will mix small and big particles well.

BR


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

So a simple swirly-swirl after transferring from the container to PF won't cut it?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

L&R said:


> WDT helps me with every grinder from $100 to $3000 provided I use beans from light to medium. For Niche you will mix small and big particles well.
> 
> BR


 I think the disk solves that issue, if aim not mistaken, smothering particles are very even, as the disk only allows 2 or 3 beans in at a time.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Zeak said:


> So a simple swirly-swirl after transferring from the container to PF won't cut it?


 I tend to WDT in the basket. Works well.


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## SafetyThird (Aug 16, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies, very interesting. I've made one today and will try it out when the espresso machine arrives, I'm using a JX-Pro until the niche gets here in November.


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## whinmoor85 (Jul 4, 2013)

I do WDT but I don't notice large clumps coming out of the Niche. I'm going to pull some shots (without WDT) and see if it's worth doing, I will happily cut that step out.

When I see coffee geeks on social media do everything they can to make the process more fussy it makes me question whether it's really worth it or not - especially with expensive equipment.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I pour the result into another container to weigh it, give it a quick swizz with a kebab stick then pour into the portafilter. Works for me.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

WDT in the basket for me. It makes big difference in the visual quality of the extraction when using a bottomless portafilter.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

It doesn't make a whole lot of difference. In my opinion better off getting things done quickly and not losing heat from the portafilter than faffing about doing a WDT routine for a few minutes. A quick once over to level the bed out with a 'rake' is ok. I have a prong londinium style distributor kindly donated to me by a forum member and it's not a WDT tool at all. I violently stir the bed quickly and keeping stirring as I remove it from the portafilter to get a fairly level bed I then tap to get it perfectly level or just tamp straight on, no more than 5 seconds to do it.


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

WDT is really important, not just because in some grinders it mixes the non uniform output or breaks clumps, but because you can actually mix the grind and get a more level/uniform coffee bed before tamping.

This will create a more even density puck and a better extraction. It's a fact.

As for a heated portafilter, or a temp stable thing, that is not desirable, because old levers drop temp 6-15C while pulling and for sure they been pulling medium - dark roasts while doing that.

And because med to dark roasts dont need high temp, you pull them at a much lower temp.

If you ever do WDT do it with thin needles, 0.2 up to max 0.4mm thickness. Thicker needles will leave channels behind and the water will go there.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> It doesn't make a whole lot of difference. In my opinion better off getting things done quickly and not losing heat from the portafilter than faffing about doing a WDT routine for a few minutes. A quick once over to level the bed out with a 'rake' is ok. I have a prong londinium style distributor kindly donated to me by a forum member and it's not a WDT tool at all. I violently stir the bed quickly and keeping stirring as I remove it from the portafilter to get a fairly level bed I then tap to get it perfectly level or just tamp straight on, no more than 5 seconds to do it.


 But @Rob1, it doesn't take a few minutes 😃, I do the doser, the WDT, the level and tamping in about 10 seconds each approximately, roughly 40-45 seconds, the portafilter's temperature won't drop so much, and for espresso I never use lighter roasts.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

Denis S said:


> WDT is really important, not just because in some grinders it mixes the non uniform output or breaks clumps, but because you can actually mix the grind and get a more level/uniform coffee bed before tamping.
> 
> This will create a more even density puck and a better extraction. It's a fact.
> 
> ...


 That needle gauge is very important for the above reason. Also the use of a dosing funnel to allow a properly vigorous stir - more like a whisk!

I upgraded to the Decent portafilter stand and dosing funnel which has made the espresso workflow much more efficient with the Niche - grind to PF, WDT, tamp through the funnel, pull shot. No more of the blind shaker voodoo only to finish and see an avalanche of coffee off to the side of the PF. That is not rainbow rhythms.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

This is quite interesting as I was initially using the Niche without WDT and then moved on to using a homemade cork WDT tool with toothpicks (below middle).









What I have noticed recently is shots running faster in the second half and pressure not maintained for long at 9 bar when measured at the group (gauge) on my ACS Minima.

I think it is likely that WDT with toothpicks is in fact creating micro-channels and shots are not consistent in taste or extraction.

The below article is an interesting read and confirms my thoughts as "with WDT we can see shots have a higher peak pressure and sustain it longer."

So good WDT should improve distribution and increase resistance in the puck, as grounds are packed more closely together - shots should flow slower with decreased channeling.

The article goes on to say that "the first consideration when adopting WDT is using the right tool. Our testing has shown that anything more than 1mm in diameter is counterproductive, so a toothpick, for example, would not be suitable."

https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/weiss-distribution-technique/

So I'm now looking for a new wdt tool. The levercraft wdt tool looks interesting although shipping is expensive:

https://levercraftcoffee.com/products/levercraft-ultra-wdt-distribution-tool-1


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

HVL87 said:


> This is quite interesting as I was initially using the Niche without WDT and then moved on to using a homemade cork WDT tool with toothpicks (below middle).
> 
> View attachment 58217
> 
> ...


 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pieces-Beading-Needles-Diameter-inches/dp/B071NG5TX6


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I never use one.


  I remember a video with you stirring vigorously with a chop stick. LOL Better edit - I know it was when you were wondering about it. Only way to find out is try but always try without what ever it is as well.

I find stirring with anything leaves more shot time variation for the same ratio. Simple reason really - can't consistently do the same thing every time and can even leave more and firmer clumps than came out of the grinder. I use fixed shot times and check weigh. All was going well until I changed the infusion power on my SDB. Lowered it which stresses the puck more in terms of flow. A stronger drink comes out but not so ratio sensitive. I usually set for 30g out. 40g gives a similar taste to what 35 gave before.

So more work on prep. Improving and the main problem seems to be tapping down firmly twice with the grinds cup on and leaving level grinds. Tried various ways of getting them level but with the reduced infusion pressure they don't work as well as they did.

Why tap down? To firm the grinds up a bit. Working this way does 1, 2 or 3 taps change output - it does. I've used a calibrated tamper for a long time. Switched recently to one where I can only tamp at it's set pressure and can't even get it out of square. Unfortunately it is a little lighter than my previous one and actually that makes things a touch worse. Tamping pressure and grind setting etc - taste what comes out. With a weighing in grinder the grinds tend to be rather fluffy IMHO tamping is essential due to that.

🤣 One of the worst possible things to do with Niche is tap the grinds down while they are in the cup. That's what I found anyway. Some one else now gone noticed the same thing as well. Side to side shake fairly gently fine. I started doing it due to static early on causing grinds to stick to the sides of the can. Turned out to be a very bad idea.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

ajohn said:


> I remember a video with you stirring vigorously with a chop stick.


 Not to speak on DaveC's behalf but if I remember correctly that was to distribute/incorporate grinds in the grinds cup before the NFC disc was introduced on the Niche to reduce popcorning.



ajohn said:


> One of the worst possible things to do with Niche is tap the grinds down while they are in the cup.


 I've noticed this as well, creates clumps in the pf.

@Kjk Thanks for the link. Have you made your own WDT tool or did you buy one?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Must say, I have never had a need to WDT or anything else with a Niche. @ajohn use s uber oily MM beans so no wonder they stick together. I simply grind into the cup, put the dosing ring on, fill it, with the ring in place shake the pf side to side, remove the ring and tamp. I think a lot of folks introduce technique into their coffee making process that adds nothing and over eggs the pudding!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MM isn't the only bean that can clump. I agree 100% with your egg comment.

Due to no NFC disk. No comment. I just shake my head in sorrow.  Whoops that wasn't from DFK of course.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@ajohn Is there a reason why you do not use the NFC?


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

HVL87 said:


> Not to speak on DaveC's behalf but if I remember correctly that was to distribute/incorporate grinds in the grinds cup before the NFC disc was introduced on the Niche to reduce popcorning.
> 
> I've noticed this as well, creates clumps in the pf.
> 
> @Kjk Thanks for the link. Have you made your own WDT tool or did you buy one?


 I bought the needles and the bottle of wine. Make sure you do not try to construct the tool under the influence of the wine.


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## amalgam786 (Oct 27, 2014)

Kjk said:


> I upgraded to the Decent portafilter stand and dosing funnel which has made the espresso workflow much more efficient with the Niche


 Hi which decent portafilter stand (bottomless only or all portafilter model) and funnel (tall or short) did you go for?

cheers


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