# Londinium L1 numpty



## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

Thanks to a long chat with Coffeechap, I was persuaded to dip my toe into the water of lever ownership.

I collected my 12/15 vintage L1 today, followed the instructions regarding warm up/weight of coffee in the basket etc but I'm experiencing operator malfunction - during the preinfusion phase water pours through the puck from the moment that the lever is depressed.

Does this suggest too coarse a grind/too light a tamp or an issue with a valve in the machine?

Thanks for any suggestions


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Finer grind,what grinder do you have first.


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

I have a Handground handgrinder to keep me going till a Niche one appears. I'll try with some very finely ground coffee that my wife got made up for me in the local coffee shop's commercial grinder - see if the L1 prefers that.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

That's probably why, if the shop as done it. Did they know you have a L1.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Grind fine tamp light


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Marmottefarcie said:


> Thanks to a long chat with Coffeechap, I was persuaded to dip my toe into the water of lever ownership.
> 
> I collected my 12/15 vintage L1 today, followed the instructions regarding warm up/weight of coffee in the basket etc but I'm experiencing operator malfunction - during the preinfusion phase water pours through the puck from the moment that the lever is depressed.
> 
> ...


What basket , what dose ?

You can grind fine but if you dont have a relevant dose to basket it will still gush ...

And while we are at it , what tamper and what coffee is it?

Stale coffee wont give you puck resistance


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The normal way with a lever, is to grind finer than normal with a lighter tamp......but nothing is written in stone. Your grind is too coarse so the water is not eating with the required resistance. Tell the coffee shop that you have a lever and want a grind tighter than they would normally give out. It may well be hit and miss for you until the Niche arrives but do not lose heart. If all else fails, try adding another 1 gm into the pf as a temporary measure. if that helps at all, if the basket allows, add a little more


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions - I'll experiment with both dose and grind (but separately so I can work out what changes have optimum results)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Marmottefarcie said:


> Thanks everyone for the suggestions - I'll experiment with both dose and grind (but separately so I can work out what changes have optimum results)


what is your dose and the coffee


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

This morning's update: 16 g of coffee shop's home blend (beans unknown) ground on their commercial grinder to a dust like consistency. Pre infused for 5 seconds (by which time actual drips were appearing in the cup) then 30 seconds after lever released. Recognisable coffee was produced but bitter as anything. I will order some Rave to try.

Next numpty question - how do you disengage the portafilter after making the first shot without machine pressure spurting the grounds all over the place?

2nd attempt - the 2nd puck had a big crack in it when I came to clean out the basket.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Marmottefarcie said:


> This morning's update: 16 g of coffee shop's home blend (beans unknown) ground on their commercial grinder to a dust like consistency...... Recognisable coffee was produced but bitter as anything. I will order some Rave to try.
> 
> Next numpty question - how do you disengage the portafilter after making the first shot without machine pressure spurting the grounds all over the place?
> 
> 2nd attempt - the 2nd puck had a big crack in it when I came to clean out the basket.


To get the best out of your machine, feed it freshly roasted beans. Coffee shop is probably using long dated beans (with a best by date up to a year) of low quality - heavily roasted which will tend towards over extraction hence the bitter notes. Shots, even with darker roasts, should not have predominant bitter notes.

Lever machines don't have solenoid mechanisms that dump the pressure after a shot is pulled. You have to be patient and let the pressure naturally disipate after the lever has returned to the 12 o'clock position. If your grind/tamp is spot on, this shouldn't be more than a few seconds. If you have ground to fine and choked the machine, you may have to wait a minute or so.


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

The Systemic Kid said:


> To get the best out of your machine, feed it freshly roasted beans. Coffee shop is probably using long dated beans (with a best by date up to a year) of low quality - heavily roasted which will tend towards over extraction hence the bitter notes. Shots, even with darker roasts, should not have predominant bitter notes.
> 
> Lever machines don't have solenoid mechanisms that dump the pressure after a shot is pulled. You have to be patient and let the pressure naturally disipate after the lever has returned to the 12 o'clock position. If your grind/tamp is spot on, this shouldn't be more than a few seconds. If you have ground to fine and choked the machine, you may have to wait a minute or so.


Thanks - I'll put in an order with Rave today and see how it goes with fresh beans.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Sounds like a video would help you here.

It is going to be difficult for you until you get your grinder. Buy freshly roasted beans, then wait 7 odd days after the roast date. Grind the correct weight for your basket (I think you said earlier what size) distribute, tamp, insert, lower the lever steadily, allow 6s then lift the lever and allow it to rise for the duration of a 36g shot (this can vary) in approximately 35s, pull the cup away and let the remainder of the shot run into the drip tray/separate cup. Allow to cool a little, taste it. Now, do you actually like espresso? You may prefer to top it up with hot water or use steamed milk to make a flat white. The taste of good espresso can taste unpleasant if it isn't a bean that you like, for example, or hasn't been prepared correctly.

You will need scales for weighing your shot. And a timer if the scales don't have a timer built in.

It is all going to sound sound terribly complicated until you get the hang of things then before you know it you will wonder what all the fuss was about!

I will try and do a vid later . . . .


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Marmottefarcie said:


> Thanks - I'll put in an order with Rave today and see how it goes with fresh beans.


Remember you will need to let them rest for around 7 days post roast date









(See my previous post)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Handground grinder is going to struggle (a lot) to produce half decent grinds for espresso - too much variability in particle size. You will notice a big difference in the cup using a decent grinder.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Right! I hope this helps









Three vids, grinding, pulling the shot, and milk pour. In the absence of a cameraman the phone was balanced precariously, and not quite straight! The beans were the first lot from a new bag I opened today. They are from The Barn coffee roasters and were roasted 9 days ago. I will need to tighten the grind very slightly as the shot was a little fast (but I know this bean and prefer a slightly longer pour and when I tasted it, it wasn't far off being perfect). It's a flat white Acme cup, 150ml, 15.2g beans, 10kg tamp, 42g out in 34s, the milk weight was 69g heated to 55c


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

The milk pouring, if you are interested!


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

Thank you MildredM for the videos - now I know what to aim for. With your pre infusion it looks like there are no drips and the flow only properly starts once the lever is released. Also with your set up the lever returns to vertical in a slower, more steady fashion than it does with my set up - perhaps this is just down to the antique state of my coffee dust?

I understand your comment about letting the beans settle for a few days once I have received them from Rave.

I might have to ask my local coffee shop to grind a batch of my Rave beans to dust like consistency on their commercial grinder so I can practice my technique until the niche turns up.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Different machines (mines the L-R) take different times for the lever to return to vertical, but yes, I'm sure it will depend on your beans/grind etc.

One drip before I released the lever, maybe. None at all on my second shot today (15g/38s/36g)

It is still going to be difficult fine tuning until you get your Niche. Pity there isn't a grinder hire service!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Marmottefarcie, it's such a shame to hear that you are struggling. As I'm a bit late to this thread, pretty much anything I might say has been said so I'm posting by way of reinforcement and hopefully, encouragement.

Please rest assured that in the L1 you have a very capable machine that is both simple to use and easy to maintain. However, whilst you are restricted to the hand grinder or a random 'fine' grind from a coffee shop, you will likely continue to struggle. Once you have the Niche you will have the capability to quickly establish the ball park grind range for the L1 from which you will be able to easily hone in to a bean optimum. Amongst all the other advice given, do bear in mind the fact that your L1 pre-infusion is not pumped so occurs at boiler pressure of about 1.2 bar. Hence previous references to the need of a relatively light tamping pressure.

Good luck and as dfk41 has said..... do not lose heart!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Marmottefarcie said:


> Thank you MildredM for the videos - now I know what to aim for. With your pre infusion it looks like there are no drips and the flow only properly starts once the lever is released. Also with your set up the lever returns to vertical in a slower, more steady fashion than it does with my set up - perhaps this is just down to the antique state of my coffee dust?
> 
> I understand your comment about letting the beans settle for a few days once I have received them from Rave.
> 
> I might have to ask my local coffee shop to grind a batch of my Rave beans to dust like consistency on their commercial grinder so I can practice my technique until the niche turns up.


Getting beans ground might not help , there is no "espresso grind " you will just be wasting beans doing this .

You wont have the variable of being able to adjust the " grind" plus once ground they stale pretty quick ,

To make espresso with any machine you need , quality coffee and a grinder capable of adjustment and espresso grind.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Marmottefarcie said:


> I might have to ask my local coffee shop to grind a batch of my Rave beans to dust like consistency on their commercial grinder so I can practice my technique until the niche turns up.


Don't ask your local shop to grind to dust - that will only choke your Londinium. Ask them to use their normal grind for espresso and also ask them to grind some a little finer than their normal espresso grind setting. That way, you can see if there is any difference in pulled shots. Ground coffee - especially espresso grind - oxidises alarmingly quickly so it's past its best in minutes rather than hours or days. If you don't have access to a decent espresso grinder, you are going to have to bear that in mind.

Coffee nuts understand that the older the bean - i.e. from date of roast requires tweaking of the setting towards finer settings. Grinding coffee and leaving it for hours/days will exacerbate this process.


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

Thanks again to all who have responded to my thread including Coffeechap who is (indirectly) responsible for getting me started.

I have been amazed by the generosity of the members of this forum - for their time to explain things to a newbie, make videos and for the support and encouragement.

I'll be back with more questions once I have the grinder and some freshly roasted beans to play with.....


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

Hi Marmottefarcie - I don't know how long you've got to wait for your Niche, but if its unbearable, your more than welcome to borrow my Pharos - a hand grinder but a very capable hand grinder and an ideal partner for an L1. I am based in Kingston.


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## Marmottefarcie (May 13, 2018)

NickR said:


> Hi Marmottefarcie - I don't know how long you've got to wait for your Niche, but if its unbearable, your more than welcome to borrow my Pharos - a hand grinder but a very capable hand grinder and an ideal partner for an L1. I am based in Kingston.


Thank you for your kind offer (@NickR) & to Coffeechap for his offer of a grinder loan till the Niche arrives - I'll be fine to wait for the Niche and then start experimenting with different beans and various grinder settings.


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## pj.walczak (Sep 6, 2017)

MildredM said:


> pulling the shot,


Nice shot. If you have time, and want to play a bit with LR lever, try pulling the lever much slower in first phase, around 3-5 seconds till you hear the pump being engaged. Then just continue with your current speed.

Usually it ends up in more even extraction. Just a new tip from my friend. It works for me.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

pj.walczak said:


> Nice shot. If you have time, and want to play a bit with LR lever, try pulling the lever much slower in first phase, around 3-5 seconds till you hear the pump being engaged. Then just continue with your current speed.
> 
> Usually it ends up in more even extraction. Just a new tip from my friend. It works for me.


I must try that. Thanks for the tip. Funnily enough I usually slow my pull down to the last 'third' of the pull, I'm going to try it the other way shortly


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Right! I hope this helps
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like the idea of catching the overrun in a shot glass. I just run into the drip tray and it gets unnecessarily messy


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