# A Man Walks Into A Coffee Shop . . .



## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

. . . or a woman, walks up to the counter, spots a nice shiny machine, and is that a Mythos parked next to it? The workspace is clean, it looks organised, they've got your go-to cups. Oh, yes please, a Flat White will do me nicely, thanks!

You sit at the scrubbed wood table, admire the fixtures and fittings, you like their style and the ambiance feels good.

The barista makes his way across to your table, cup in one hand and a slice of something yummy on a plate in the other. He mutters, 'Enjoy', and off he goes, back to create more expertly created, artistically topped cups of goodness.

You take a breath, look at your coffee . . . Your first impression . . . Oh dear, what's this? The foam! Looks like he slipped some washing up liquid in there, this isn't foam it's bubbles . . . And those bubbles are atop a watery, flat, murky something-or-other that surely didn't come from a coffee bean.

Maybe it can't be as bad as it looks. Let's take a taste then . . . You take a hold of the handle, your other hand is on the cup to steady it - OUCH! It's scalding hot! Oh dear . . . Can this get any worse . . . Yes, it can and it does. You take a tentative sip, bleugh! What ever this is, it isn't coffee as we know it.

At at this point you take a look around the cafe. Hmmm. Plenty of cappuccinos, a few espressos, customers look happy . . . It's just me then.

But it isn't me, my coffee hasn't been prepared properly, I've paid for it but I can't drink it . . . What do I do? What can I say? I don't like confrontation. I am not an expert but I want to get behind the counter and show them how it's done! They look busy, a bit hassled. So . . . I don't do or say anything . . . . I leave and simply won't ever go back. But when I get home, I really wish I'd said something . . .

I am pretty sure most baristas would rather know and would be happy to prepare a fresh drink than think they have an unhappy customer - but surely they should get it right from the off.

What would you say. And what kind of responses have you received?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I would ask him if he would like another attempt before you show him what you want. I rarely ever go to coffee shops and when I do I often refuse to pay until I have seen the drink poured and tasted it.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

MildredM said:


> What would you say. And what kind of responses have you received?


Had a coffee at a place in Chester that boasted, 'best coffee in Chester'. It wasn't. Told them and asked for and got my money back. Place didn't last long. Got a feeling it's the same place occupied by the Jaunty Goat. Coffee there is passable but nothing outstanding.

Generally, if the place (like the Jaunty Goat) doesn't feature the beans used, you're going to get, at best so, so coffee. That said, it should still be made to an acceptable standard.

Was in an uber cool place featuring a Black Eagle machine and named SO beans - coffee was dire. Took it up with the bored barista who was more interested chatting to his mate. He said it was a problem with the beans so I asked him why then were they using them. Got a replacement shot using the other SO on offer.

Don't put up with poor coffee. If's unacceptable, tell them and get it remade and perhaps they will learn from the feedback.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

The Systemic Kid said:


> perhaps they will learn from the feedback.


Unlikely in my experience!


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## Robbo (Feb 17, 2016)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Had a coffee at a place in Chester that boasted, 'best coffee in Chester'. It wasn't


I recently stayed at a hotel that claimed, in big bold wall art, to serve the best coffee in the uk. 'Using the perfect combination of 80% Aribica 20% robusta'

Directly underneath this was a bean to cup machine with oily dark beans in the hopper and the full range of monin syrups.

I didnt bother to try it so cannot verify the claim.

Most coffee shops struggle with flat whites. Its very rare they get the milk right.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

unfortunately the robot baristas are picking up human habits too


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Tell him he's crucified the coffee. Go back in 3 days and see if he's risen to the challenge.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt so I would politely say that I don't like the coffee and give them a chance to correct it as everyone can make mistakes. I'd place more judgement on how they handle customer service than one single drink I had.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I would ask him if he would like another attempt before you show him what you want. I rarely ever go to coffee shops and when I do I often refuse to pay until I have seen the drink poured and tasted it.


I wish I had the guts to not pay until I've got my coffee and tasted it. Asking if he would like another attempt is certainly something I would feel happy asking though.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Had a coffee at a place in Chester that boasted, 'best coffee in Chester'. It wasn't. Told them and asked for and got my money back. Place didn't last long. Got a feeling it's the same place occupied by the Jaunty Goat. Coffee there is passable but nothing outstanding.
> 
> Generally, if the place (like the Jaunty Goat) doesn't feature the beans used, you're going to get, at best so, so coffee. That said, it should still be made to an acceptable standard.
> 
> ...


Quite a statement to make, 'best coffee in Chester'! And an interesting interaction with the bored Barista! Good grief, blaming the beans!!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> unfortunately the robot baristas are picking up human habits too


That poor robot, I kind of wanted it to react to the spill!!!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Really sorry to hear that, he was probably thinking he can get away with that as you were not a regular :-(


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Elcee said:


> I like to give people the benefit of the doubt so I would politely say that I don't like the coffee and give them a chance to correct it as everyone can make mistakes. I'd place more judgement on how they handle customer service than one single drink I had.


I have said I don't like the coffee before but then got, 'what's wrong with it'. I said something along the lines of it hasn't been made properly, which resulted in a lot of slamming about, grouchy faces and a replacement slammed down in front of me!!! Not an ounce of good customer service in sight!!!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Step21 said:


> Tell him he's crucified the coffee. Go back in 3 days and see if he's risen to the challenge.


I will certainly try the 'you've crucified it'! Good one!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Mildred, to partially quote from my February thread of similar vein......



> *Start trekking across the universe,*
> 
> *finding a decent coffee shop, will surely make you curse.*
> 
> ...


 

*
*I think I'm right in saying that @Glenn used to carry a set of 'constructive comments' , printed out on bits of paper, that he would leave behind on coffee shop tables as and when he felt the need?

I think you quickly get the feel of an establishment and a sense as to whether or not, any constructive criticism you might think to offer would fall upon stoney ground.

We are not long got back from a stay in Sydney. A very short walk from where we stayed was a cake and coffee shop doing 7:00am through 10:00 seven days a week so it was somewhere we visited often. Several baristas worked shifts and across the board, they produced consistently acceptable coffee. Best of the bunch was a guy with 5 years experience both in Oz and the US and if he was on shift then you could guarantee the coffee would be spot on. He was accomplished at pouring latte art but I noticed that the pattern was always 'upside down' when presented to a right-handed drinker. When I pointed this out to him and told him that lefties are in the minority and basically have no standing when it comes to coffee, he was absolutely over the moon and adjusted his technique accordingly !! A minor point but very well received.

It's probably fair to say that the vast majority of the coffee drinking public would regard the likes of us as coffee snobs. Maybe they just haven't had the opportunity to experience 'better' coffee or maybe they have tasted 'better' coffee but dislike it (which is fair enough). Either way, given the subjective nature of judging the acceptability of commercially prepared coffee drinks, it is likely that us coffee snobs will be heavily outnumbered by folk who happily enjoy a cup of what we would consider to be caffeinated bilge water.

I believe your average coffee outlet will settle for selling drinks that are easy and cost effective for them to prepare. I doubt many will aspire to greater things nor see a need to up their game when the likes of us try and point them in our direction.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hohoho! @Snakehips . . . How did I miss your thread? So, so funny



















> I think I'm right in saying that @Glenn used to carry a set of 'constructive comments' , printed out on bits of paper, that he would leave behind on coffee shop tables as and when he felt the need?


The perfect answer . . . Suggestions for comments on a postcard, please!



> It's probably fair to say that the vast majority of the coffee drinking public would regard the likes of us as coffee snobs. Maybe they just haven't had the opportunity to experience 'better' coffee or maybe they have tasted 'better' coffee but dislike it (which is fair enough). Either way, given the subjective nature of judging the acceptability of commercially prepared coffee drinks, it is likely that us coffee snobs will be heavily outnumbered by folk who happily enjoy a cup of what we would consider to be caffeinated bilge water.
> 
> I believe your average coffee outlet will settle for selling drinks that are easy and cost effective for them to prepare. I doubt many will aspire to greater things nor see a need to up their game when the likes of us try and point them in our direction.


Fair enough . . . But not if they are being snobby and pretending to be a 'third wave' cafe with fancy equipment, leather aprons and all the accoutrements lined up and everything!

I felt relief on your behalf that you found some decent coffee in Sydney, and that you out the Barista right on the right way up latte art! Excellent!

Sorry, I need to go not and re read your thread again


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Yes indeed. It was aimed at steam wand cleanliness though (and worked a treat!)

Cards are still in circulation and the page they point to still gets hit every so often - proving they are noticed


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

MildredM said:


> . . . But not if they are being snobby and pretending to be a 'third wave' cafe with fancy equipment, leather aprons and all the accoutrements lined up and everything!


What is it they say? 'All's fair in love and marketing!'



> .....I felt relief on your behalf that you found some decent coffee in Sydney,


First time we went to Sydney, some 8 years back, we experienced our first flat whites, which is what got us into drinking espresso based coffee. The next two visits continued to have us believe that it was virtually impossible to get a bad cup of coffee in and around Sydney. Not so now though! The cafe culture is huge and you are tripping over coffee shops and eateries every couple of yards. However, whilst the percentage hit rate for getting a decent cup has to be a piece higher than here in the UK, there is still quite a sizeable probability of being disappointed. Typically, there were two places where we breakfasted most mornings for six weeks. Great food but other than on the first visits, despite locals flocking in daily for takeaways, we never took coffee again in either. Preferred to hit on other places on the walk home, just for the coffee.

Not sure what has changed, their coffee or our expectations?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think it's generally possible to suss out the quality of a shop from the equipment, cleanliness and barista, but as in your example in the OP, not always.

I just tend to leave the coffee and not go back. I have absolutely no belief a complaint or constructive criticism will result in the 'barista' upping their game.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Glenn said:


> Yes indeed. It was aimed at steam wand cleanliness though (and worked a treat!)
> 
> Cards are still in circulation and the page they point to still gets hit every so often - proving they are noticed


I always eye up the steam wand and if it's crusty exit rapidly. I'm dairy intolerant, and for some reason some places seem to think dipping crusted cow lactation into my soya milk is acceptable. Worst is when they have a crusty jug and just "rinse" it with the hot water tap. I usually stop them at that point and ask for tea. Or leave.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I did it! Returned the first pair of flat whites at Hoxton North today. They were scalding hot (and naturally tasted vile). My tongue is still tingling from being singed.

I went to the counter and explained the coffee was way too hot . . . I was met with a glare, so I repeated it. He made two new ones which were perfectly ok. I'm just not sure why he got it so wrong the first time.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

MildredM said:


> I did it! Returned the first pair of flat whites at Hoxton North today. They were scalding hot (and naturally tasted vile). My tongue is still tingling from being singed.
> 
> I went to the counter and explained the coffee was way too hot . . . I was met with a glare, so I repeated it. He made two new ones which were perfectly ok. I'm just not sure why he got it so wrong the first time.


Was he a hipster? You might have offended his delicate sensibilities!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

fatboyslim said:


> Was he a hipster? You might have offended his delicate sensibilities!


More of a gangster than a hipster!

And I hope I did


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Sounds like they should have just made it right the first time. Not often you get second chances to make a good first impression.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Scotford said:


> Sounds like they should have just made it right the first time. Not often you get second chances to make a good first impression.


Quite right too.


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## eddie57 (Mar 21, 2017)

MildredM said:


> I did it! Returned the first pair of flat whites at Hoxton North today. They were scalding hot (and naturally tasted vile). My tongue is still tingling from being singed.
> 
> I went to the counter and explained the coffee was way too hot . . . I was met with a glare, so I repeated it. He made two new ones which were perfectly ok. I'm just not sure why he got it so wrong the first time.


Noooooooooooooooooo

MildredM the coffee shop inspector has just been unleashed


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I've been in the UK between Swansea and London for the past 5 weeks while my setup has been inside France (I'm really annoyed at listening to the misses and not bringing it back). As a result I've been to a lot of "specialty" coffee shops in London and the handful in Swansea.

The ones in London have been a huge disappointment with the exception of Civilian on Portobello which gave me 2 of the best espressos I've had. The rest all look nice have the Linea's and Mythos but usually produce either over or under extracted shots. I even went to Flat White in Soho on Saturday and was greeted with grumpy staff and a crap espresso.

Swansea's Square Peg first time gave me a really poor shot and I did say something. The barista thanked me as they hadn't picked up that they weren't dialled in. I've been here the most and on the whole it's consistently good.

With more and more places opening up the standards are getting worse and worse. On the whole I much rather make coffee at home unless I can find the odd gem.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Nopapercup said:


> I've been to a lot of "specialty" coffee shops in London...


Stray from the apps and go south of the river


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

MildredM said:


> I did it!...


Yes! Sometimes it has to be done. You are officially a 'terrorist' customer. Well done. Mediocrity is contagious and should be nipped in the bud.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Obnic said:


> Yes! Sometimes it has to be done. You are officially a 'terrorist' customer. Well done. Mediocrity is contagious and should be nipped in the bud.


Ha! I felt like suggesting I show him how it's done, to be honest.

I haven't lost lost my temper properly since I was 21 (a bit before last year then) but today, although I was very polite, I felt a seething anger inside . . .


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

Sigh....

Now as a home barista with a nose that refuses to be trained (it will run for a tissue though) I admit that there are no doubt umpteen million peeps that are far better at making coffee than I will ever be... but after discovering some time ago that my skills were 'better' than a lot of so called coffee shops, I refuse point blank to buy any hot coffee beverage when away from home.

So really you only have your selves to blame


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

DaveP said:


> Sigh....
> 
> Now as a home barista with a nose that refuses to be trained (it will run for a tissue though) I admit that there are no doubt umpteen million peeps that are far better at making coffee than I will ever be... but after discovering some time ago that my skills were 'better' than a lot of so called coffee shops, I refuse point blank to buy any hot coffee beverage when away from home.
> 
> So really you only have your selves to blame


We do!!

It really is a rum state of affairs when you can't get a reasonably decent cup of coffee though . . . There ARE decent shops/baristas around who consistently produce excellent coffee, thankfully. They just take some finding!


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MildredM said:


> Ha! I felt like suggesting I show him how it's done, to be honest.
> 
> I haven't lost lost my temper properly since I was 21 (a bit before last year then) but today, although I was very polite, I felt a seething anger inside . . .


Got to love a bit of good ol' fashioned British ultra polite passive aggression...


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

"I was so angry that I almost said something"


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Scotford said:


> Stray from the apps and go south of the river


Sounds like you have some suggestions?

I find the best coffee shops I've tried are run by the owner or a passionate barista. The larger/busier they are the more likely you're getting a bad coffee.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

MildredM said:


> We do!!
> 
> It really is a rum state of affairs when you can't get a reasonably decent cup of coffee though . . . There ARE decent shops/baristas around who consistently produce excellent coffee, thankfully. They just take some finding!


I don't drink coffee out anymore


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

For 'bar' read bad coffee shop


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Nopapercup said:


> The larger/busier they are the more likely you're getting a bad coffee.


This is true to a point. We shift a decent volume (50+kg) and I'm HOT on the standards. I've known smaller volume cafes to be more variable too.

PM me and I'll send you some (unbiased) suggestions.


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## thesmileyone (Sep 27, 2016)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Had a coffee at a place in Chester that boasted, 'best coffee in Chester'. It wasn't. Told them and asked for and got my money back. Place didn't last long. Got a feeling it's the same place occupied by the Jaunty Goat. Coffee there is passable but nothing outstanding.
> 
> Generally, if the place (like the Jaunty Goat) doesn't feature the beans used, you're going to get, at best so, so coffee. That said, it should still be made to an acceptable standard.
> 
> ...


Was it Cinderbox? (Right next door to Jaunty) if so, Cinderbox is for sale on rightmove commercial etc.

Have you tried that italian coffee place in Chester called Carluccious? My parents rave about it.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Pretty sure it was - dreadful coffee. Speaking of dreadful - Carluccio's is not renown for good coffee.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Speaking of dreadful - Carluccio's is not renown for good coffee.


It is actually quite good for honing your sending-your-coffee-back experience though.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MildredM said:


> It is actually quite good for honing your sending-your-coffee-back experience though.


What have you lot created?

I accept no responsibility whatsoever


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

igm45 said:


> What have you lot created?
> 
> I accept no responsibility whatsoever


I'm sorry but rule number 345, part b, sub section c, clearly states, and I quote:

If it's crap, send it back.


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## Mmiah (Feb 13, 2015)

me, my wife and 3month old was out shopping yesterday and thought we'd pop into Costa

i actually like their paninis but thought i'd get a drink too

so my wife asked for a hot chocolate and i had a flat white

i had my hawk vision on while the "barista" did his thing, first thing i noticed was the tamp station, was more of a light tap to flatten the puck surface, nothing more

the espresso shot itself looked very fast, but i think the machines they use put a fixed volume of water through the puck and a fixed time so there will be little pressure between the coffee and water therefore under-extracted

and then there was the milk, the only part that looked like it was done right, he poured fresh milk and had his eye on the thermometer so didn't scald the milk

the end drink was lacking any real coffee flavour

i cant believe that once upon a time i thought this was good coffee

even the hot chocolate my wife said i make better at home on my gaggia classic

if it was a small coffee shop i would have made my suggestions but as its costa the staff are always changing shifts etc so unless we run a company wide workshop it will make little difference


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

Irked this morning by a particularly bad 'flat white' in a cafe in Scarborough. Apart from it being bitter and hot as hell, it was more expensive than the latte/cappa option but the same size cup for all!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

mmmatron said:


> Irked this morning by a particularly bad 'flat white' in a cafe in Scarborough. Apart from it being bitter and hot as hell, it was more expensive than the latte/cappa option but the same size cup for all!


I don't really 'Like'


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I'm not really convinced that a flat-white is really a thing. It seems to me that it's just slightly better milk texturing with a nod toward latte art.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I tend to agree with Obnic there. Flat whites are almost always more expensive, yet rarely much difference between that and a cappuccino these days. Once upon a time a cap would've had some kind of milk/foam divide, and the flat white would be more of a homogeneous microfoam throughout, so a better texture. Mostly the milk gets the same treatment regardless in most places so you have to wonder what you're paying the extra for. Some may argue the exact technical difference between each; I don't disagree but in the real world there is all too often no difference at all apart from (maybe) the cup shape.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

hotmetal said:


> I tend to agree with Obnic there. Flat whites are almost always more expensive, yet rarely much difference between that and a cappuccino these days. Once upon a time a cap would've had some kind of milk/foam divide, and the flat white would be more of a homogeneous microfoam throughout, so a better texture. Mostly the milk gets the same treatment regardless in most places so you have to wonder what you're paying the extra for. Some may argue the exact technical difference between each; I don't disagree but in the real world there is all too often no difference at all apart from (maybe) the cup shape.


I too have wondered this for my drinks I make at home.

I have illy cap cups (170 ml)

And an Acme flat white (150 ml)

How am I supposed to make the milk different for each? I find my flat white tends to just be a stronger cap


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Traditional cappuccino milk is kind of foamy (not so much microfoam, bigger bubbles) or it could be good microfoam on top but milk underneath. Whereas a flat white wants to be microfoam all the way (at least that's how I understand it). If you wanted cappuccino, just hold back the foam with a knife to get some 'wetter' milk in, then let the foam come out on top. I do like flat whites and endeavour to get a slightly thicker texture to the whole pitcher of milk to make mine. Of course it doesn't always go to plan!

There are lots of interpretations on the Internet, here is just one comparison :

http://achillescoffeeroasters.com/whats-difference-flat-white-and-cappuccino/


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> For 'bar' read bad coffee shop


I've loved this track for many years! I shall listen to it in a new light now - thank you. RIP the lovely and very talented Kevin Ayres.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I'm depressed at how difficult it is to find an acceptable, never mind excellent coffee in the UK. Mostly, I just grin and bear it. (Typical older Brit!) The principle crimes I encounter are: Too hot, doesn't actually taste of coffee or burned to buggery.

The only positive in all of this is that, however feeble my own attempts they please me, and just as important my wife, more than anything we ever get out and about. Apart from anything else this means I don't have much of a problem with domestic coffee expenditure.









By contrast, we didn't have a horrible coffee in a week in Rome. They weren't all wonderful but none was undrinkable.


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## Mmiah (Feb 13, 2015)

i must admitted being part of a family thats been in the restaurant trade for the past 30years the quality of food and drink in the country is going downhill, it's getting more difficult to find staff that are passionate about producing good quality food and drink, and supermarkets and chains are offering poor quality food and drinks that's mass produced for cheap, so everyone is going for the cheaper alternative

i've started cooking more at home now, especially pizza etc as the quality is better than what you find at pizza express/hut etc

now everyone comes round mine for coffee instead of meeting up in a coffee shop

shame my classic can't keep up with the coffee demand but i can can't afford anything bigger as 90% of the time its just me drinking it


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Proof (if any were needed) that the classic is a very capable little machine in the right hands, as long as all your mates don't come round and overpower the poor thing! It's almost the ideal machine for one person.

As for food, I think it's a real shame there's a race to the bottom. I don't begrudge paying for quality, especially if you're putting it into your body. If only my wallet could keep up with my palate (first world problem though, eh?)


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Mmiah said:


> i must admitted being part of a family thats been in the restaurant trade for the past 30years the quality of food and drink in the country is going downhill, it's getting more difficult to find staff that are passionate about producing good quality food and drink, and supermarkets and chains are offering poor quality food and drinks that's mass produced for cheap, so everyone is going for the cheaper alternative
> 
> i've started cooking more at home now, especially pizza etc as the quality is better than what you find at pizza express/hut etc
> 
> ...


Out of interest mmiah where abouts in the country are you?

We live in Cambs and my wife and I are foodies. With the cost of family life (and coffee) we don't get out as much as we'd like.

However our list of local restaurants with good quality, locally sourced food is huge, plenty we love and plenty we are yet to try.

I'd say its the opposite around this area, competition seems to be driving quality up. Of course we have the chains too but we avoid those as they are generally lower quality.

(Even a couple of decent coffee shops in Cambridge - not many though).


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## Mmiah (Feb 13, 2015)

I'm in Northampton, loads of good pubs here, but that's about it

I always end up travelling out of town if I fancy a meal etc


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Mmiah said:


> I'm in Northampton, loads of good pubs here, but that's about it
> 
> I always end up travelling out of town if I fancy a meal etc


If you find yourselves Cambridge way drop me a line and I can recommend some 1st class restaurants, to suit any budget/taste.

Feeling quite blessed now


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

I'll take that list. Since moving down this way (ok, 8 years ago ... but... )I have generally been quite disappointed with the quality of restaurants in Cambridge (was in Liverpool before that, and there are *many* excellent restaurants there, so spoiled I guess) - There are some gems, but a lot more disappointments.

There are a couple of decent coffee shops in Cambridge, among a sea of terrible ones. The rest of the region is a write off for proper coffee though.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

UbiquitousPhoton said:
 

> I'll take that list. Since moving down this way (ok, 8 years ago ... but... )I have generally been quite disappointed with the quality of restaurants in Cambridge (was in Liverpool before that, and there are *many* excellent restaurants there, so spoiled I guess) - There are some gems, but a lot more disappointments.
> 
> There are a couple of decent coffee shops in Cambridge, among a sea of terrible ones. The rest of the region is a write off for proper coffee though.


I agree with coffee shop remarks.

Restaurants I am very surprised by, I live just outside Cambridge so can include the local areas and feel spoilt for choice.

What kind of restaurant you looking for?

One of my favourites is quite small, but lovely The Oak Bistro (http://www.theoakbistro.co.uk)


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## PeterL (Aug 5, 2015)

I tend to let them hang themselves, don't complain, enquire...

"is this coffee as good as it should be and if I asked for another would it be the same?"

Their response or not tells me if I dump it on the counter or smile sweetly while they chat about the fault and the remedy of same.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

Obnic said:


> I'm not really convinced that a flat-white is really a thing. It seems to me that it's just slightly better milk texturing with a nod toward latte art.


I think of it more as a size guide when I'm ordering one, kind of expecting something around 5-6oz, so I get really annoyed when a giant cup turns up full of scalding milk.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

mmmatron said:


> I think of it more as a size guide when I'm ordering one, kind of expecting something around 5-6oz, so I get really annoyed when a giant cup turns up full of scalding milk.


Yup. That's what I'm saying.


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## clickhappy (Feb 1, 2012)

PeterL said:


> I tend to let them hang themselves, don't complain, enquire...
> 
> "is this coffee as good as it should be and if I asked for another would it be the same?"
> 
> Their response or not tells me if I dump it on the counter or smile sweetly while they chat about the fault and the remedy of same.


I like this approach, not sure I have the bottle


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## PeterL (Aug 5, 2015)

clickhappy said:


> I like this approach, not sure I have the bottle


When was the last time you saw a hipster jump the counter and threaten to glass an unruly punter, it's just not in their DNA....


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