# SBP Pre Infusion



## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

Might be a stupid question! But does pre-infusion start as soon as you press the button? Or when the timer starts?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've never bothered using the second hand on my watch to check Maybe you should. However I did use a wall clock seconds hand to time shots for a while and I would say pump starts when the button is pressed, timer too but was mostly interesting in time variations with just a button push.


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

Gaz_chops said:


> Might be a stupid question! But does pre-infusion start as soon as you press the button? Or when the timer starts?


When the pump starts - until then, there's no water flow.


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

ImthatGuy said:


> When the pump starts - until then, there's no water flow.


Thanks, that’s what I thought as the timer seems to start a couple of seconds after hitting the button, just wanted to be sure I was timing shot correctly.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The original BE is volumetric. I tried programing a 30 sec shot without any restriction then tried with a puck,, I got fed up with waiting for the shot to end,


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

ajohn said:


> The original BE is volumetric. I tried programing a 30 sec shot without any restriction then tried with a puck,, I got fed up with waiting for the shot to end,


Not sure that’s helpful! But your post count is going up 👏🏻


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Gaz_chops said:


> Not sure that’s helpful


It's not a timed machine, The buttons program a volume.


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

ajohn said:


> It's not a timed machine, The buttons program a volume.


How is that helpful? My question was “does pre-infusion start as soon as you press the button? Or when the timer starts?”!

If I pull a manual shot the buttons will time that shot, not the volume!!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Gaz_chops said:


> Or when the timer starts?”!


It doesn't have a timer - not of that type anyway.


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

ajohn said:


> It doesn't have a timer - not of that type anyway.


Mine does and it seems other Pro’s do too!
“The LCD screen displays information like grind size, grinding time, temperature readings, and a *brewing timer*.”


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Intuitive interface with volumetric shot control

That's what Sage themselves say about your model. It can be made to work accurately on the BE I had, My son uses it now but with that model there were constants, Yours - maybe, maybe not.


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

I’m curious if you have used a SBP?

If I do a manual shot, I press & hold the button for pre infusion and watch the TIMER on the display count up to ~5 secs I then release the button and watch the TIMER and my scales, I press the button again to stop it and the TIMER stops.

What other sort of timer is there?


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)




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## jackspro (2 mo ago)

Pre infusion start the moment the grinds see water, the moment your pump turns on, the moment you start the shot. And the timer should start at this moment too. When you hit 'go' the shot time has started.


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

Gaz_chops said:


> ’m curious if you have used a SBP?
> 
> If I do a manual shot, I press & hold the button for pre infusion and watch the TIMER on the display count up to ~5 secs I then release the button and watch the TIMER and my scales, I press the button again to stop it and the TIMER stops.
> 
> What other sort of timer is there?


I use a SBP every day and have done for some years. I say that only so that I'm clear that I know this machine.

1. A small delay before the timer starts is simply the machine making sure the water is at temperature.

2. As regards the time. The SBP is a volumetric machine - it times the shot according to the volume of brewed coffee coming out of the machine. The process is like this:


You program the shot by using the buttons to start/stop the shot to get the volume/weight of shot you want. The machine remembers the volume, not the time
After that the machine attempts to produce the same vile of coffee for each shot. The actual time taken will vary as you vary the grind, the type of coffee, the tamp. But the volume remains the same. In this situation, the timer is simply indicating how long it took to get the programmed shot volume. It's a useful guide if you want to echo your tamp is consistent, or want to play around with the grind.
When you pull a manual shot, the machine simply produces coffee until you tell it to stop (hence the term "manual"). It is not attempting to manage the time or the volume. It's simply starting when you say "start" and stopping when you say "stop". In this case, the timer is providing you with information only, which might be useful if you've champed beans or grind and are experimenting to see what settings you need for a good shot. Once you've found the settings, you can reprogram the machine accordingly.

Hope that makes sense


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## Gaz_chops (24 d ago)

ImthatGuy said:


> I use a SBP every day and have done for some years. I say that only so that I'm clear that I know this machine.
> 
> 1. A small delay before the timer starts is simply the machine making sure the water is at temperature.
> 
> ...


Thanks 
Point 1 the delay is what I was mostly checking,
Point 2 Is exactly what I’ve been saying, pulling a manual shot is ‘Timed’


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ImthatGuy said:


> 2. As regards the time. The SBP is a volumetric machine - it times the shot according to the volume of brewed coffee coming out of the machine. The process is like this:


It could be persuaded to work on a BE but with prep and max pressure limitations. If pressure was low enough other than taste prep didn't matter. Time varies to suite to give required volume = weight of shot, A number of kg of beans worked out for me. As I also used the grinder hopper on and kept an eye on the grinds weight it meant minuscule changes on the timer knob to keep it sensibly constant, It's a rather coarse adjustment. ~9.4g in the single. A light bean so others would probably be a bit over 10g. The grinder caused me some grief if I wanted to use a guest bean so added an SGP and weighed in on that.  It was all going so well I changed machine. My son uses it now. I think he uses the razor tool to control grinds weight. In my case the default setting for the double gave the best ratio going on taste. Some water was going out of the OPV so that was included in the volume.

They now offer machines that brew at 9bar. That suggests some changes on the internals. Volumetrics now? Pass there are several things they could have changed that might make it work irrespective. It may exclude what goes out of the OPV.


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