# Fracino Piccino v Nuova Simonelli Oscar



## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

I had decided on buying a Cherub to replace my classic but unfortunately as soon as my wife saw the size of the beast it was a no no.









Now I can't choose between the Piccino £550 or the Oscar £575. Both are an acceptable size and a good step up from my Classic. I'm not that keen on the idea that the Piccino would need to be sent away to be descaled, but Ive been told as long as I change the filter every 6mths it shouldn't need descaling very often. I normally use tesco or morrisons bottled water for my coffee drinking as our tap water is highly chlorinated. What bottled water would be best? Volvic maybe?

Can anyone advise?

PS I already have a iberital mc2 grinder


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## Ricriley (Jan 3, 2013)

I've often wondered about using bottled water, but I get quite good results with my tap water if I let it sit for long enough for the chlorine to evaporate (a few hours)

I wouldn't mind experimenting with a few different waters though, I'd also be interested in any recommendations. I also have a brita filter, should I be using it?


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Volvic is regarded as the best water for coffee in terms of hardness, alkalinity and mineral content. Scottish Spring water is the next best. If you are using good bottled water, you don't have to worry about scaling. If you are using hard water, scaling is going to be an issue on any machine (but some are easier to descale than others).

A Brita filter helps with tap water but won't take all the hardness out. I'm not sure if it's correct to say that 'chlorine evaporates from water if you leave it to sit enough', but then I'm not a chemist.

Piccino v Oscar? I have no direct experience of either machine, but the Piccino has the advantage of being made in Birmingham which means parts are readily available, and Fracino have a growing reputation for making very solid machines. It is a matter of personal taste whether the steel body of the Piccino or the plastic body of the Oscar looks better. The former has a dual boiler, the latter an HX, both should do the job but I can't comment on which makes better coffee.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Walter Sobchak said:


> I normally use tesco or morrisons bottled water for my coffee drinking as our tap water is highly chlorinated. What bottled water would be best? Volvic maybe? Can anyone advise?


Agree with Rolo - if you want to use bottled water - Volvic is recommended - some bottled waters are actually quite hard so not good for your machine. You mention water being heavily chlorinated - is that all? If you are in a semi to hard water area and experience lime scaling, filtered or bottled water (Volvic) is the best way to go to look after your machine. If your water isn't hard, a water filter - like a Brita should get rid of the chlorinated taint.


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## suferick (Jul 19, 2011)

I have the Oscar (currently £517.75 from lagondola.it) and use Brita filtered water in it - I'm reckoning on descaling every 3 months. I have it in my head (not sure if there is any foundation to this) that a HX machine will use less electricity than a double boiler.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

I live in a soft water area that doesn't taste too good, which is why I have always used bottled water for my coffee. Maybe I'll try a Brita filter to help with the taste then!

Cheers for the replies guys!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

the oscar will almost certainly have better thermal stability, and more steam power, thanks both to its HX. The piccino with no PID in it, will not be able to maintain such solid thermal stability. Its steam boiler is also a fair bit smaller than the boiler in the oscar.

Its a shame the cherub is too big (its not THAT much bigger than an oscar in reality) as i feel its a better machine than either of these options, as its not only an HX, it also offers an E61 style brew head, a hot water tap (easier descaling) and a fantastic steam wand.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Well I've totally changed my mind again, I'm now going to go for either

Isomac rituale http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISOMAC-RITUALE-NEW-COFFEE-MAKER-/111012524118?pt=Coffee_Machines_Makers&hash=item19d8dcb056

Or

Isomac Tea iii http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=d-isomac1


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Isomac have a slightly dodgy reputation for build quality/reliability - I think your first two options were better.

Also Café Italia don't have much of a reputation for after sales service.

You really would be better off with a Cherub - are those extra 45mm of depth (compared to the Isomac) going to make that difference?


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

The reviews on coffee geek are all favourable on the isomacs?

The cherub is wider also, so in our small kitchen I'm afraid so.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Just take the side panels off


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Well I've pulled the trigger finally on the Isomac tea iii from cafeitalia, fingers crossed everything goes smoothly.

Decided on a HX machine that can be descaled at home. I didn't really like the cheap plastic look of the Oscar so thought it was worth paying the extra for the sexy stainless steel Isomac tea iii.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Well I've pulled the trigger finally on the Isomac tea iii from cafeitalia, fingers crossed everything goes smoothly.
> 
> Decided on a HX machine that can be descaled at home. I didn't really like the cheap plastic look of the Oscar so thought it was worth paying the extra for the sexy stainless steel Isomac tea iii.


 The best of luck with it; the Isomacs are good looking, well specified machines at a good price, and I hope, for your sake, the issues with reliability/build quality are no longer evident (note that Bella Barista, who previously gave the Tea an excellent review, no longer stocks them). I was seriously considering an Isomac at one point. Let us know, too, what you think of CaféItalia's service as they have had an uneven reputation in the past.


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## Godders (Dec 29, 2012)

Recent experience with cafeitalia was item not in stock (they offered me an alternative which I wasn't interested in) so just because it's on their website don't assume it's available!

They (like a lot of others) seem to charge your card straight away which is a bit annoying, particularly when they don't even have the item in stock. I have to say though that they refunded the card pretty promptly which is a good sign I guess.


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## Godders (Dec 29, 2012)

In case I wasn't clear this was a for completely different item (Ascaso grinder), fingers crossed they have your Isomac!


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Godders said:


> In case I wasn't clear this was a for completely different item (Ascaso grinder), fingers crossed they have your Isomac!


I emailed them asking if they had stock and if so when should I expect delivery. They replied that I would receive I tracking number shortly. So I assume they have stock, that was yesterday though and I'm still waiting for the tracking number.

EDIT: In stock and being sent Monday!











RoloD said:


> The best of luck with it; the Isomacs are good looking, well specified machines at a good price, and I hope, for your sake, the issues with reliability/build quality are no longer evident (note that Bella Barista, who previously gave the Tea an excellent review, no longer stocks them). I was seriously considering an Isomac at one point. Let us know, too, what you think of CaféItalia's service as they have had an uneven reputation in the past.


Thanks, will do.


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## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

Have to say that if I were in the market for a £500+ machine I'd be looking for a lightly used commercial rather than a home machine. Plenty of great bargains available on ebay


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

You could argue that something like a cherub / exobar is technically a scaled down commercial machine. I have the same group, steam wand, water outlet and filter holder as all the fracino commercial machines, but without the running costs of a 6 litre boiler. I get the same kind of performance that is possible from a commercial machine in a smaller package. A bigger boiler is only of use if you're pumping out coffee after coffee and need instant recovery

Why would you want the sheer size and power hungry nature of a commercial machine in your home?

.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

shrink said:


> You could argue that something like a cherub / exobar is technically a scaled down commercial machine. I have the same group, steam wand, water outlet and filter holder as all the fracino commercial machines, but without the running costs of a 6 litre boiler. I get the same kind of performance that is possible from a commercial machine in a smaller package. A bigger boiler is only of use if you're pumping out coffee after coffee and need instant recovery
> 
> Why would you want the sheer size and power hungry nature of a commercial machine in your home?
> 
> .


Exactly, agree with this totally.


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## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

shrink said:


> You could argue that something like a cherub / exobar is technically a scaled down commercial machine. I have the same group, steam wand, water outlet and filter holder as all the fracino commercial machines, but without the running costs of a 6 litre boiler. I get the same kind of performance that is possible from a commercial machine in a smaller package. A bigger boiler is only of use if you're pumping out coffee after coffee and need instant recovery
> 
> Why would you want the sheer size and power hungry nature of a commercial machine in your home?
> 
> .


I'm still talking single group, not some behemoth out of the local costa. Some really nice stuff available on ebay


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I don't see what you'd gain, apart from some favourable second hand pricing.

Most are huge and butt ugly too


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## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

shrink said:


> I don't see what you'd gain, apart from some favourable second hand pricing.
> 
> Most are huge and butt ugly too


Each to their own I guess. personally, I'd rather buy something used but worth significantly more rather than something new which has the mfr and retailers margins in it. Like buying a 2nd hand merc over a new ford or vauxhall I guess. Plenty of nice looking equipment IMO but beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course. Running cost is an issue of course.

Having said all of that, my price point is significantly less than £500/600 so am looking for a used prosumer machine


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

My Isomac Tea has been dispatched via FedEx and should be with me on Thursday!









So good so far from CaféItalia.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

After being delayed by the snow in France I picked up my lovely Italian machine this morning from the FedEx depot!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Nice looking machine (as featured in the TV series 'Borgen').

What's the coffee like?


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Ran a quick few shots through the machine before hitting the pub to watch the rugby earlier to get rid of the new metallic taste. Just made a 16g shot of coffeebeanshops Peruvian Yanesha in 8oz of milk which pulled in 27 seconds and it was delicious!


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