# old or new Classic ?



## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Sorry if this has been posted before - I couldn't find the question anywhere so here goes:

So Phillips took over Gaggia, and apparently don't use as good componentry in the Classic as they used to? (saw that in another thread)

Does that mean they are not the same quality any more? is it worth buying a new (Phillips) Classic or would it be much better to find a used one? and how old am I looking at, was it a recent take over?

I know Classics come up for sale on here, but I'd rather buy a new one, just cos I like new stuff - but is it still a force to be reckoned with or have they gone all rubbish now ? Can I buy a new Classic with confidence that it is still the raved about machine that everyone recommends on these forums?

I'm not sure how torn I should be between buying an oldie but goodie vs a newie but baddie.

thanks


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

read below.......


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I've only had my new Classic less than a year but it's still going strong with one to two espressos a day (and a few a day around the Least Crap Latte Art contest).

Apparently the solenoid is larger in the pre-Phillips Classic but why bigger is better in this case I'm not entirely sure. The three-way solenoid releases the pressure from the grouphead meaning it's possible to remove the pf immediately after brewing without it 'sneezing' and spraying hot grounds everywhere. I've never had an issue with my new Classic in this regard.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Milanski said:


> I've only had my new Classic less than a year but it's still going strong with one to two espressos a day (and a few a day around the Least Crap Latte Art contest).
> 
> Apparently the solenoid is larger in the pre-Phillips Classic but why bigger is better in this case I'm not entirely sure. The three-way solenoid releases the pressure from the grouphead meaning it's possible to remove the pf immediately after brewing without it 'sneezing' and spraying hot grounds everywhere. I've never had an issue with my new Classic in this regard.


The larger solenoid is less likely to get blocked up as a result of backflushing or descaling.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Cheers, so is this a likely problem, or is descaling and back flushing something that is only ever done if you have a problem? (sorry, doesn't really mean anything to my noob brain) And if it does get blocked is it terminal, easy fixed or just a pain in the neck?

Does this potential problem alone make it worth going 'classic' ?


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

andyt23 said:


> Cheers, so is this a likely problem, or is descaling and back flushing something that is only ever done if you have a problem? (sorry, doesn't really mean anything to my noob brain) And if it does get blocked is it terminal, easy fixed or just a pain in the neck?
> 
> Does this potential problem alone make it worth going 'classic' ?


Descaling and backflushing are regular maintenance so yes you will be doing this. The other thing with the new ones is they are set for pressurized baskets so you would have to get normal baskets and adjust the OPV (over-pressure valve) back down to 9Bar at the shot. So this could be a bit daunting for a newbie, although there are simple guides out there for doing it provided you have all the bits.

Honestly, I would get a good second hand from someone on this forum so you know it has been correctly set up and well looked after. These machines can last decades if looked after well and components are cheap and easy to replace.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

So there's a 2004 Classic just come up on the Sale section of the forum this evening - at nearly 10 years old, is that getting a bit long in the tooth?

I've expressed an interest, but I'd be hoping it would last me about 5 years. Is that an unreasonable expectation from a machine of that age?

Or would I be better off holding out for a more recent build?


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Classics are quite simple machines and well made. Really there is not much that can go wrong and even if they did they are cheap and easy to repair. The biggest issue is usually caused by scale build up so not knowing the machine that would be a question to ask about, i.e. has it been regularly descaled and used filtered water depending on location.

I really wouldn't worry about the age as a well looked after 10year old could be in much better shape than one 10months old that has been abused. Bear in mind people on here track down vintage machines over 40yrs old and can get them working like new.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks, that's reassuring - I guess at the slow rate they seem to depreciate I could have it awhile and get my money back if I move it on for an upgrade... I think I'll go for it.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Keep it maintained and you'll make your money back on that no problem when you decide to sell.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

Sounds like one of those win-win situations


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The pre 2009 models are a better build. As was said earlier it depends on how the machine has been looked after which is the key thing.

I'd say that if it's been looked after by a forum member ( as a general rule) it will have been their pride and joy. eBay you might be taking a punt.

I've got a friend of mine who's looking at getting their first espresso in the near future and I'd recommend something like this machine i.e. a used pre Phillips Classic.

Hope this helps.

What grinder are you looking to pair it with?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Keep it maintained and you'll make your money back on that no problem when you decide to sell.


Completely agree.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Just spotted the one you are looking at. Seems a bargain to me and you could easily move on for £100 if not for you in the end. For what it's worth at that age, I got mine in 2006 they were £300 new plus it has had the steam wand added which is another £20ish and OPV mod. You can get them cheaper new now £200ish but they are now owned by Phillips with some stating the build quality is not as good, can't testify to that personally.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Hope this helps.
> 
> What grinder are you looking to pair it with?


It all has helped - just paid for the Classic and now can't wait to get my hands on it! thanks to everyone who helped in the 'buy with confidence' department.

as far as a grinder, I'll probably have to wait a while and rely on having a good local supplier where I can buy small amounts of fresh ground every day if I need to - although I've put my hat in the ring for a grinder over on Pay it Forward, it would be awesome if that paid off.

As far as research, I understand the MC2 is a good starting point, but I do have a couple of questions about it.

I was wondering if stepless adjustment is the best thing as when people come round I'll probably just want to make up a french press and it would be fiddly to try and go between two settings that aren't marked - the answer to that one may simply be "by a bag of ground coffee"

the other question is which model of MC2 doser/auto to go for as obviously I have zero experience and it all means nothing to me anyway...

I just need a simple and effective path into all of this, but with half an eye on future-proofing


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Excellent, if it the one from GS11 then I think it's a bit of a bargain.

Getting a decent grinder will make it a lot of difference for making espressos as it will allow you to make fine adjustments to the grind.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As urban said stepless allows you to make finer adjustments for espresso . Most of us will use one grinder specifically for espresso , as it can be a time consuming moving the grind from French press to espresso and finding the correct adjustments again.

I don't know what your budget is , there is a mignion on the sales thread for £200. That's a good grinder for espresso .


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

My Classic is 2001 vintage, and got it from ebay so might have been abused in the past, but it soldiers on regardless.

It has had major surgery in the last few days with a new gasket fitted (or at least it will be when it gets delivered). Removing the shower head plate was a mammoth effort. Water was coming through only one of the holes so I persisted with a combination chemical and physical attack until i got it off. The back was solid with a coating of coffee oils and limescale which had formed a pretty impressive concrete layer. Now flowing beautifully again, and when I get my gasket should be as good as new.


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## StevieD (Nov 26, 2013)

Dr Steve said:


> My Classic is 2001 vintage, and got it from ebay so might have been abused in the past, but it soldiers on regardless.
> 
> It has had major surgery in the last few days with a new gasket fitted (or at least it will be when it gets delivered). Removing the shower head plate was a mammoth effort. Water was coming through only one of the holes so I persisted with a combination chemical and physical attack until i got it off. The back was solid with a coating of coffee oils and limescale which had formed a pretty impressive concrete layer.


Just exactly the same as mine '01 / '02 vintage, I've used it for over 10 years, was a refurished gaggia off ebay way back - just waiting for some bits and pieces - seals etc and it'll be good as new for another ten years or so.

You won't regret it.

Steve


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Removing the shower screen and the block behind it (with allen keys) and giving them a good descale/puly caff soak every time you descale the boiler is a good habit to get into. This will prevent future 'concreting' of aforementioned parts and maintain a consistently good flavour to your coffee.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

If the dispersion plate does get stuck again or is stuck, for anyone purchasing a machine new to themselves, the best way to remove it is to remove the shower screen and get a machine screw the same as the shower screen one(M5 I think) but a lot longer. Then after removing the dispersion plate allen headed bolts screw the long machine screw into the thread usually taken by the shower screen until it separates from the brew group, its a far better method than trying to pry it off or using a Birmingham screwdriver on it.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

andyt23 said:


> as far as a grinder, I'll probably have to wait a while and rely on having a good local supplier where I can buy small amounts of fresh ground every day if I need to - although I've put my hat in the ring for a grinder over on Pay it Forward, it would be awesome if that paid off.
> 
> As far as research, I understand the MC2 is a good starting point, but I do have a couple of questions about it.
> 
> ...


Hi andy

You may struggle to get a decent results with shop ground coffee as machines (and beans) extract differently, hence the need to "dial in" the bean you are using to the machine.

I made the error when purchasing the classic thinking I could get away with using my zass hand grinder (unable to grind fine enough) For quality and consistency of grind a decent grinder is a wise investment.

Regards comments about taking apart shower screen, don't worry about the example you are purchasing confirm all strips down easily for cleaning:good:


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## Womble Classic (Nov 27, 2013)

Anyone know when Phillips came in and ruined things? I have a 2003 classic.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

2009 I think........


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

So I'm clear I'm going to shoot for an old Classic, next question is do I go for a stock one (a couple up for sale now) or wait for a modded one (OPV and Silvia wand).

The wand looks like a simple enough job, but what about the other? I'm not known as a tinkerer...

and as the grinder I'll be using initially is a Dualit 75015 and you may say it won't grind fine enough for the best espresso, would I be better trying to acquire at least one that has had the pressure altered?


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

After all that I got impatient and have just made an offer on a stock pre Phillips Classic from the forum. Sure I've done the right thing and I'm prepared to have a go at the mods I reckon.

Dont you hate it when someone asks for advice then doesn't hang around long enough to hear it...

(go on, tell me that's what you were gong to say anyway...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

........yes


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

andyt23 said:


> I'll be using initially is a Dualit 75015 and you may say it won't grind fine enough for the best espresso, would I be better trying to acquire at least one that has had the pressure altered?


Buying a decent machine and pairing it with a poor grinder is not going to give you the best espresso the Classic is capable of. Also, there is plenty of guidance on how to adjust the OPV - you'll need a modified portafilter with manometer. You may be able to borrow/hire one via the forum.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Andy, when so you get your machine?

I've got a Gaggia and selling it at the weekend, also have a fracino Classic and a Rocky grinder. If you're near Blaydon/Metrocentre anytime you're welcome to come and have a play around and compare.


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## andyt23 (Nov 24, 2013)

No idea when/if I'll get it as I haven't had a response from the seller yet - I don't suppose your Gaggia will still be around by the time I get mine. It would be good to get a comparison tho so I may well take you up on your offer sometime.

I'll have no choice initially but to use the Dualit, but a better dedicated espresso grinder is definitely still on the wish list and it would be great to sample what I can achieve with one.


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## Pete N (Dec 10, 2013)

So am I right in thinking the best combo would be a pre Phillips Classic, and a decent grinder? Is it just reliability or will the older one make better coffee. I'm new to this so sorry if it sounds a stupid question.

Jason, let me know if your machine and grinder is still up fir sale if Andy doesn't take it.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Reliability. Though I have a post Phillips and have not had any problems. In fact, I've not heard that anyone has yet?

Spend as much as you can afford on the grinder. It'll make all the difference to your coffee.


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