# MaraX - seems to be a lot of issues?



## Mack32

Hi All - I'm giving very serious consideration to upgrading to the MaraX. After reading DavecUK's review & the home barista review I had pretty much made up my mind however after reading both of the MaraX mega-threads here and on H-B I'm a little less sure. There seems to be lots of people reporting problems with various sensors etc. A scroll through the first page of the Lelit forum here throws up 6 separate threads will MaraX issues.

I fully appreciate that people will generally only go to a forum if they're having problems so that will skewer perception but I was wondering if this is still considered a very reliable / well built machine? It seems like Lelit have made some revisions from the model that Dave reviewed and they haven't worked out very well?

I'm not afraid of the usual E61 maintenance etc but I'm a little worried about getting a new machine and then going through the heartbreak of running into problems and needing to return it to retailer.

I guess really I'm just looking for some reassurance before I pull the trigger!

Thanks

Ian


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## DavecUK

There's a long thread but not that many people...100s of machines sold in the UK.


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## Rob1

Mack32 said:


> I fully appreciate that people will generally only go to a forum if they're having problems so that will skewer perception but I was wondering if this is still considered a very reliable / well built machine? It seems like Lelit have made some revisions from the model that Dave reviewed and they haven't worked out very well?


 I'm not aware of there being any revisions?

Faulty sensors and parts can happen with all machines whether it's solenoid valves, PIDs or temperature probes, sometimes it seems like it affects a whole batch of machines but you won't really see it that way unless the machines are particularly popular.


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## itguy

I have a MaraX and I wouldn't let any of the (mostly minor) issues put you off at all.

I bought mine from Bella Barista and I am one of the people who has had a temperature sensor fault. That said, BB dealt with it quickly, easily and have been great. When it is warranty like this they pay for return shipping and turn it round nice and quickly.

I have opened my MaraX myself and it certainly feels and looks like a high quality machine inside and nothing you'd see in there would lead you to believe they are cutting corners in design, components or assembly.

My machine is back now and performing perfectly as far as I can tell. The other main thing here is that BB told me they have sold over 300 of these machines and mine was the 5th that they had to do some warranty work on - and they have been in dialogue with Lelit directly about the issues to resolve long term too.

I also found that with the MaraX a lot of the machine satisfaction will come down to what your expectations are / how you use it. I say that because if you are expecting to be able to use it for back to back 250ml+ steaming for 4 or 5 drinks, it WILL need a pause or two at some point to allow the boiler to refill and to get back up to the right steaming pressure. If you're making 2 or 3 150ml steaming drinks back to back it will be fine.

Pretty much every machine has it's own little ways/quirks of operation which you learn over a period of usage to get the most out of it. Even the most expensive dual boiler machines have this too.

Finally, I like the ethos of Lelit and how approachable they are. When I started having issues with mine I emailed them in Italy and their tech team came back to me too as well as BB.

If/when I am interested in a dual boiler machine, the Lelit Bianca will be very high on my list - at the moment today, it would be what i'd buy.

Good luck with what you choose.


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## itguy

Rob1 said:


> I'm not aware of there being any revisions?.


 I suspect this is referring to my posts re the style of steam boiler temperature probe - going from being a combined level probe and temp sensor to them being separate.


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## AlanSky

I purchased my MaraX from Bella Barista recently and it has been solid so far. I haven't had any issues at all and would certainly recommend it.


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## earthflattener

It's very difficult looking at sites like this to get an accurate estimate of failure rates. The statement from BB is useful, 5 out of 300 so far (it will probably increase as machines are less than 1 year, but not too much), so that's just 1.7%. SAGE, who have a far bigger operation, publish their cost of repair. It is 1%. Now, they are not strictly comparable statistics, but seem to be in the same ballpark. You can also find a very long thread on MaraX on the American site. Most customers are happy, a few problems similar to here. As Rob1 said, it is mostly components that go, so the main thing is how good is your support. BB seem to have an excellent reputation. That counts for a lot.


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## Ilias

I also have a Marax (before I had a Victoria) and I am super happy...


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## Mack32

Thanks everyone for the quick responses - decision made, will be calling the dealer this afternoon! I'm based in Dublin to BB not the best option for me but this place seems decent and has a local service center. Thanks again everyone



Rob1 said:


> I'm not aware of there being any revisions?





itguy said:


> I suspect this is referring to my posts re the style of steam boiler temperature probe - going from being a combined level probe and temp sensor to them being separate.


 Yes, it was itguy's comment here -

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57462-lelit-mara-x-returned-after-2-days/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=810782&embedComment=810782&embedDo=findComment#comment-810782


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## Boomingfast

As we all know, forum threads tend to concentrate on the negative, so to try and balance that....

I've had mine for only 3 weeks but it has been great so far, bought from BB and no complaints. I came from an 18 year old Gaggia classic so the build quality is certainly a step up, it's very solid and well thought out. Really quiet too.

My machine just does what it's supposed to do. I don't make a lot drinks per day so it's not stressed in that way, but the workflow suits my needs. I didn't want to 'overbuy' with a dual boiler so for me this is the ideal machine, and it just happens to fit and look very well in the kitchen. Enjoy your new machine when it arrives !

Cheers

James


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## bigsav

Mack32 said:


> Thanks everyone for the quick responses - decision made, will be calling the dealer this afternoon! I'm based in Dublin to BB not the best option for me but this place seems decent and has a local service center. Thanks again everyone
> Yes, it was itguy's comment here -


The Mara X is still toward the top of my shortlist despite the small number of complaints online.

Have you found an Irish seller@Mack32 ?

I'm outside Belfast.


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## Mack32

bigsav said:


> Have you found an Irish seller@Mack32 ?


 I've order from here - Lelit Mara PL62SX | Caffè Italia (coffeeitalia.ie). They're based in Dublin and have a service centre in ParkWest

And now the wait begins...


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## MediumRoastSteam

Mack32 said:


> I've order from here - Lelit Mara PL62SX | Caffè Italia (coffeeitalia.ie). They're based in Dublin and have a service centre in ParkWest
> 
> And now the wait begins...


 I take you perused the thread in this forum named after the place where you ordered it from?

here for your convenience:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/34737-caff%C3%A8-italia/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=176254&embedComment=176254&embedDo=findComment#comment-176254


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## Mack32

🤦‍♂️

Heres to hoping the Irish branch is better... I exchanged a few emails and had a phone call with them before ordering and I actually remember thinking that they were prompt and pretty decent to deal with... Hopefully I'll be able report back with some good news


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## Rincewind

Mack32 said:


> ...Hopefully I'll be able report back with some good news...


 I will keep my fingers crossed for you....good luck.


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## Zorkin

Ilias said:


> I also have a Marax (before I had a Victoria) and I am super happy...


How do they compare? What made you upgrade?

Thanks


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## Ilias

Zorkin said:


> How do they compare? What made you upgrade?
> 
> Thanks


 I would say quite a big difference:

Most important improvements (in order of importance):



Milk-based drinks are way more easier. Before I had to make an espresso first, then switch and wait 2-3 minutes before steaming the milk. I do have 1-2 milk drinks per day (and a few espressos too) so this was the main reason I upgraded. I also sold my Victoria for 600gbp and got my marax for 900 so it was not a super expensive upgrade for me.


Pre-infusion: victoria has a pre-infusion function, but it is practically unusable. It hits the puck with 9 bar and then abruptly opens the solenoid (disturbing the puck). MaraX has a very progressive pressure profile. This allowed me to grind much finer and increase extraction. I didn't expect it but I do get tastier and more consistent shots. I wish Victoria had a better pre-infusion...


Temperature stability: While the boiler temperature in the Victoria is very stable due to the PiD, the small metal mass of the group head and the smaller boiler meant that the shot started at 92C and finished at 86-87. To be honest I didn't try too much to adjust the PID hidden settings, but I don't expect to reach the stability of MaraX. With marax I start at 92 and finish at 92...


The ability to experiment with pressure profiling.


Other than this, I was happy with Victoria too. A very robust machine, I had it for 3 years without any problems. MaraX is just better in those 3 aspects i described above.

Ilias


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## MediumRoastSteam

Ilias said:


> Temperature stability: While the boiler temperature in the Victoria is very stable due to the PiD, the small metal mass of the group head and the smaller boiler meant that the shot started at 92C and finished at 86-87.


 This is often a red herring. On the MaraX, you are potentially measuring temperature at the group with a group thermometer, right? Whereas on the Victoria, you were simply reading what the machine told you on its display, i.e.: the temperature measure by the probes in/on the boiler itself. Please correct me if I am wrong and disregard all the below if that's NOT the case 🙂.

Even on my Profitec 700 a few years ago, the temperature measured inside the boiler was different from the temperature of the group. I remember pulling a shot at 93C, and, after the shot, the machine PID would read 90C or sometimes 89C on the PID display. This is because of the cold water entering the brew boiler from the top, and the probe measuring that temperature right there.

For all intents and purposes, this is a video showing the temperature stability of the Elizabeth (I think it's not the latest version) which has a very similar design to the Victoria group, boiler and heating element wise (albeit I believe on the Victoria the temperature probe is measure *on* the boiler - as opposed to *inside* the boiler - (If memory doesn't fail me, I recall someone mentioning this here somewhere).

@Zorkin - FYI.


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## Ilias

No, in fact the Victoria cannot display real-time temperature from the PiD after it reaches the stable state (I don't understand why).

I was measuring this with a T-type thermocouple embedded at the top of an actual espresso puck.

I had to set up my PiD at 104c to get about 92C average during the shot.

Keep in mind i had a very early version, I am sure the software evolved since then.

Ilias


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