# Wanted Forum rules suggestion.



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

There should perhaps be a rule in the Wanted forums that you cannot jump on someone else's thread. Replies to a topic are not adverts in the FS section and are a direct reply to the O/P, but people seem to feel free to jump in on someone else thread which seems a bit off to me. PMs are already off limits before a sale is agreed but there isn't any info on this in the rules.

Just a thought.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> There should perhaps be a rule in the Wanted forums that you cannot jump on someone else's thread. Replies to a topic are not adverts in the FS section and are a direct reply to the O/P, but people seem to feel free to jump in on someone else thread which seems a bit off to me. PMs are already off limits before a sale is agreed but there isn't any info on this in the rules.
> 
> Just a thought.


The views wanted thread is just a way people inform others of a forthcoming sale, and inviting people to pm each other. it ought to be scrapped. People can research back if they want to see what things have sold for


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Ban Paypal gift, on my other forum you not allowed to send it. It's the Devils Spawn


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jony said:


> Ban Paypal gift, on my other forum you not allowed to send it. It's the Devils Spawn


I got caught out using PayPal gift on here , never got the product , never got my money back .


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

It's not Rocket Science add the fees on top, not to difficult to do.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Historically people have trusted each other on here , and there have been 100s of transactions that have worked without PayPal fees.

Mine i think is an exception to the rule. If you person doesnt want to make a sale as a gift they can request it no be done as so , up to them and the seller if they agree. If not walk away .


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

I've always felt comfortable sending and receiving using PayPal 'fiends and family.'

Most people on here know one another and I've never been burned here.

I may be wary with a very new member but the fees can add a lot to purchase prices. I'm also happy using direct bank transfers.

David


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Dylan said:


> There should perhaps be a rule in the Wanted forums that you cannot jump on someone else's thread. Replies to a topic are not adverts in the FS section and are a direct reply to the O/P, but people seem to feel free to jump in on someone else thread which seems a bit off to me. PMs are already off limits before a sale is agreed but there isn't any info on this in the rules.
> 
> Just a thought.


I agree, but I needed to find an example of what you meant to properly understand what's going on. I can see that the thread has a purpose if I wanted 'x' and I had searched the FS forum and couldn't find 'x' or 'x' had sold some time ago. It shouldn't be used as a sub-FS forum. It also doesn't seem to be in the Christmas spirit.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Jony said:


> Ban Paypal gift, on my other forum you not allowed to send it. It's the Devils Spawn


Unless of course someone declares something is damaged when it's not or did not arrive when it did! This forum operates on trust and goodwill, once you have been around long enough you will realise that!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well the other forum does as well, it was a general thing not directed at anyone and i have been on the other forum nearly 10 years as I did Rc cars for a longish time.

Just add the fees simple. And I don't need to realize anything!! just so you know


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## d_lash (Aug 30, 2014)

There's a thread on wanted now that went that way. Someone (or ones...) wanted a lever machine, IIRC.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Please read the first sentance! It is very easy to be ripped off by new members as PayPal pretty much side with the buyer ( for clarity I refused to send a tamper to Jony as fandf was not acceptable) I do understand that someone would want protection, but most things on here get sorted out by trusted members


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Phil104 said:


> I agree, but I needed to find an example of what you meant to properly understand what's going on. I can see that the thread has a purpose if I wanted 'x' and I had searched the FS forum and couldn't find 'x' or 'x' had sold some time ago. It shouldn't be used as a sub-FS forum. It also doesn't seem to be in the Christmas spirit.


This is the reason I made the topic: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?41827-Lever-machine

OP received two offers, both of which had other members express interest. IMO the rules should state this is not allowed, as it does not seem fair play - but thats just an opinion.


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## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

I'm pretty sure the forum holds no responsibility for sales between individuals, the same goes for platforms like gumtree. if 2 adults can't work out a sale then I think as a society we have bigger problems. I would also not invite restrictions on what methods people use to pay for items, its not a forums place to be a nanny state.

I recently bought something from a member, asked how he would like to receive the money, offered options and made the transaction. it wasnt difficult, but there is trust.


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

Jony said:


> Ban Paypal gift, on my other forum you not allowed to send it. It's the Devils Spawn


Why would you ban Paypal gift? If it makes life easy.....


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

paul whu said:


> Why would you ban Paypal gift? If it makes life easy.....


oh... just read more stuff. However, I've never been ripped off in this manner.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Dylan said:


> This is the reason I made the topic: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?41827-Lever-machine
> 
> OP received two offers, both of which had other members express interest. IMO the rules should state this is not allowed, as it does not seem fair play - but thats just an opinion.


I'm not sure that's necessary. While people do jump on wanted ads from time to time, it's usually on the understanding that the OP automatically gets first refusal on anything offered.

In the thread you linked to someone had already done just that with one of the 2 machines offered & nobody batted an eyelid.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Or where there are competing interests you could start a For Sale thread and offer the OP the first right of refusal at a set price

This way there are other buyers who will throw their hat in the ring and no one gets upset

Thoughts?


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Glenn said:


> Or where there are competing interests you could start a For Sale thread and offer the OP the first right of refusal at a set price
> 
> This way there are other buyers who will throw their hat in the ring and no one gets upset
> 
> Thoughts?


That sounds to me like it captures what Dylan is driving at and so would be worth adding to the sticky.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Phil104 said:


> That sounds to me like it captures what Dylan is driving at and so would be worth adding to the sticky.


How would you know there are competing interests if you can't post in someone elses wanted ad as Dylan is suggesting?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Personally I feel replies to a Wanted thread should be people addressing the OP only - i.e. people with something to offer. Perhaps if an OP has explicitly turned down an offer then this item would then be fair game - but even then it can clutter someones wanted thread if others come in asking about an item.

If the advice was "If you are interested in an item in someone else's Wanted thread, please create your own Wanted thread with what you are after so the offer may also be made to you in turn"

Or perhaps something a bit more elegantly worded. Not sure what other people think here, I appreciate first refusal etiquette is usually followed so maybe its not so much of a problem as I am making it out to be - I just feel wanted thread can quickly get a bit messy with other people jumping in.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am not a favour of having endless rules.....peace and harmony usually abide without them....otherwise you just end up with bickering because in someones view they have done something petty in the eyes of another. Does it really matter if someone asks for a valuation and someone else jumps in or on......leave it to the op to sort out


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## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I am not a favour of having endless rules.....peace and harmony usually abide without them....otherwise you just end up with bickering because in someones view they have done something petty in the eyes of another. Does it really matter if someone asks for a valuation and someone else jumps in or on......leave it to the op to sort out


+1 (as the internet say)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Please read the first sentance! It is very easy to be ripped off by new members as PayPal pretty much side with the buyer ( for clarity I refused to send a tamper to Jony as fandf was not acceptable) I do understand that someone would want protection, but most things on here get sorted out by trusted members


Unless said member buggers off and never comes back or is heard of again...


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Unless said member buggers off and never comes back or is heard of again...


The Lord Lucan of CFUK.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Not a rule, but could we have a member's only zone probably for the Off Topic side of things . . . Don't ask me why, I don't have a specific reason, I just happen to think it would be good to have somewhere to discuss stuff that wasn't 'public'.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MildredM said:
 

> Not a rule, but could we have a member's only zone probably for the Off Topic side of things . . . Don't ask me why, I don't have a specific reason, I just happen to think it would be good to have somewhere to discuss stuff that wasn't 'public'.


Used to frequent a forum that had a section only for subscribed members (you also got other perks for subscribing like a larger pm box & gallery space) . On the whole it wasn't used for much that wasn't on the open forum but it was handy for keeping the odd thread away from the bots.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Me to, was called Gold member was £5 a year. and we got more message space and other stuff.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Question is: does that risk taking valuable information (all any of us ever share, obviously) away from Google searchers?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Dylan said:


> Question is: does that risk taking valuable information (all any of us ever share, obviously) away from Google searchers?


I think it should be for off topic/non coffee threads (as such) though


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MildredM said:


> I think it should be for off topic/non coffee threads (as such) though


Ok, I'm on board with a Mildred moderated private forum


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Dylan said:


> Ok, I'm on board with a Mildred moderated private forum


Moderate... Mildred..... Mmmmmmm......


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm sorry but I really don't understand the point of having a private area for discussing non-coffee related things. Is there something broke than need fixing?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Let me discuss with the team and see what shakes out

It's been a consideration for a while and there are ways of allowing this.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

PLEASE can we have a new member rule that their first 5 posts have to get vetted before they are published? I will volunteer to do this if needs be.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

MildredM said:


> PLEASE can we have a new member rule that their first 5 posts have to get vetted before they are published? I will volunteer to do this if needs be.


 whoooaa that'd be great!!


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

MildredM said:


> PLEASE can we have a new member rule that their first 5 posts have to get vetted before they are published? I will volunteer to do this if needs be.


 Fantastic suggestion


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'd ask what some would want to hide in a private section and why. Some forums have a lot of problems with trolls. This one doesn't seem to have any degree of this that I have noticed.  I did wonder about some Sage posts on occasion but decided they were unusual and very probably cocha. There are all sorts of trolls about some immediately apparent some not so.

If some one is going to vet first posts what basis are they going to use? I use a forum from time to time that has a lot of problems with trolls. Usually one type is easy to deal with, users report it as spam and it gets removed pretty quickly. That sort of troll might make any number of silly posts in a thread and the moderator has no problem seeing that they are spam as they have no relation to the thread title at all so all traces are removed. Another type uses a different technique that is harder to deal with. There are other techniques that are used.  Must admit I am reluctant to mention all as google might give some of them ideas as they really can be a nuisance.

Personally I think that sending conformation link emails and a simple robot check when people initially join is fairly good check to use on new members. Maybe even taking several hours to send the email.  I can't remember what I had to do to join this forum so sorry if it already does that. As this can go wrong it's also best to allow direct contact with an administrator, that would need robot checks.

John

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

My suggestion was to alleviate the annoyance of the multiple posts made minutes prior to my post. Obvious spam posts that meant a mod then had to go through and delete probably a dozen posts.

re: "I'd ask what some would want to hide in a private section and why. Some forums have a lot of problems with trolls. This one doesn't seem to have any degree of this that I have noticed" @ajohn I am sorry but I do not understand this or to what it relates.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MildredM said:


> My suggestion was to alleviate the annoyance of the multiple posts made minutes prior to my post. Obvious spam posts that meant a mod then had to go through and delete probably a dozen posts.
> 
> re: "I'd ask what some would want to hide in a private section and why. Some forums have a lot of problems with trolls. This one doesn't seem to have any degree of this that I have noticed" @ajohn I am sorry but I do not understand this or to what it relates.


 They don't relate so should have separated them via a return. Just comments and a question that I would like to hear an answer to. As they are both have clear demarcations I can't really see why there is any point in drawing my attention to it. I'm not writing a book and don't employ a proof reader. These things just happen.

Perhaps you could copy paste some of the spam that occurs while you are posting. I don't find it unusual to see other posts cropping up while I am making one. The forum notifies me now and I may or may not read them before I post my own.  I'd be hard pressed to say why I might do one or the other of those.

John

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

ajohn said:


> They don't relate so should have separated them via a return. Just comments and a question that I would like to hear an answer to. As they are both have clear demarcations I can't really see why there is any point in drawing my attention to it. I'm not writing a book and don't employ a proof reader. These things just happen.
> Perhaps you could copy paste some of the spam that occurs while you are posting. I don't find it unusual to see other posts cropping up while I am making one. The forum notifies me now and I may or may not read them before I post my own.  I'd be hard pressed to say why I might do one or the other of those.
> John
> -


Would you like to buy some counterfeit currency? Oh wait, I reported that spam post a few days ago.....


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## Chap-a-chino (Mar 31, 2017)

MildredM said:


> PLEASE can we have a new member rule that their first 5 posts have to get vetted before they are published? I will volunteer to do this if needs be.


 A lot of Forums do this. It makes a lot of sense.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Chap-a-chino said:


> A lot of Forums do this. It makes a lot of sense.


 I do so like it when people agree with me ?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

I didn't realise the feeling was so strong about this and must have missed any posts about it. I have to admit I felt uneasy about how things snowballed on the forum, I've tried not to voice it due to the overwhelming support base and to be fair largely the product has come close or met the justified hype or at least filled a hole so it's hard to be over critical.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Hasi said:


> whoops this took a sharp bend in no time


 maybe i can bend it back ...



MildredM said:


> PLEASE can we have a new member rule that their first 5 posts have to get vetted before they are published? I will volunteer to do this if needs be.


 i don't have any problem at all with this, but i worry about moderators who being dragged into and endless thankless tasks 7x24, i'd much rather see positive content as that sets a good example.

I can hear the whining now "i posted my happy smiley hello i need help message at 3am, then 4am then 6am.... it's not very helpful" we do the same when the admins go quiet...

I suspect the heart of the problem is "some posting of unfriendly bad content - often by new members" but we all have our bad days...

My suggestion (i don't know if this is possible) is that if a post is reported, it is automatically removed, then the moderators make a call to put it back. ( i don't know if that's possible). Moderators can of cause remove any post, as now.

Of course abusing the reporting button, as now, might get yourself a warning, then a holiday :good: .


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Agentb said:


> i don't have any problem at all with this, but i worry about moderators who being dragged into and endless thankless tasks 7x24, i'd much rather see positive content as that sets a good example.
> I can hear the whining now "i posted my happy smiley hello i need help message at 3am, then 4am then 6am.... it's not very helpful" we do the same when the admins go quiet...
> I suspect the heart of the problem is "some posting of unfriendly bad content - often by new members" but we all have our bad days...
> My suggestion (i don't know if this is possible) is that if a post is reported, it is automatically removed, then the moderators make a call to put it back. ( i don't know if that's possible). Moderators can of cause remove any post, as now.
> Of course abusing the reporting button, as now, might get yourself a warning, then a holiday:good:.


You raise a good point. I assume this has been suggested to try & stop spamming to access the for sale section. If so perhaps instead of the first 5 post needing a mod to ok them, they just need clearing (within an agreeable time like 24, 48 or 72 hours) before access to the for sale section is granted.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

We have a new secret weapon to combat spam on the forum. It's so secret I've already said too much... Shhhhhh... I've said nothing..


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

KTD said:


> I didn't realise the feeling was so strong about this and must have missed any posts about it. I have to admit I felt uneasy about how things snowballed on the forum, I've tried not to voice it due to the overwhelming support base and to be fair largely the product has come close or met the justified hype or at least filled a hole so it's hard to be over critical.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Sounds like I have missed something while having a break from this site.  I'd love to know what it was.

I can guess who these comments may be aimed at. It is something that has cropped up now and again and only from a limited number of people. Very limited actually in this particular case but maybe it some other factor.

Lets look at it factually. A person is going to a lot of trouble and takes some time to do what he in this case does. For free ????? Get real folks even people who are employed by charities get paid.  The ones I have known do anyway.

Somebody with a "reputation" might approach a retailer and try to get a discount if they offer to do a review on here or elsewhere. So what most reviews anywhere have a bias of of some sort usually aimed to sell. People get to know what they actually have when they buy. It's a fact of life and there isn't much point in trying to dream up forum rules to prevent it. Owner reviews are no guarantee that problems with items will be mentioned. I have had direct experience of that and the problem turned out to be common knowledge.

I suppose pre production reviews are good for the maker as in some ways it's advertising items. On the other hand aren't they of interest and is there any point in marking them as such when people should be capable of realising that they will have this effect. Buy early production releases - things may continue to change it's just more likely than after they have been around for a while but even years of availability doesn't rule changes out. People generally make and sell things for profit not out of the goodness of their heart.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nikko said:


> May be you missed them because they were deleted by the moderators


 I would suggest Only your posts and only when you get a bit libellous


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jimbojohn55 said:


> oohhh I like this thread even if it is 2 yrs old,
> 
> 1 No reviewing of pre production equipment, save the review for the final product
> 
> ...


 Manufacturers will loan equipment to people who they trust are up to the job of reviewing , have some track record , respect and reach.

Sometimes people nose will get out of joint if person x gets to review something and person y doesn't , how do you combat this , as it can produce negative comments as a result .

Point 4 - why can't someone keep a model or get a discounted model in lieu of payment , what makes this any different to being paid or is this included in point 4

I don't think anyone is making huge dollars or loads of free gear from reviewing coffee equipment . If they are it's on instagram and youtube not here.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Because (for me) it compromises the reviewers ability to be seen as impartial and objective

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Because (for me) it compromises the reviewers ability to be seen as impartial and objective
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


 I think the utopia you want , does not exist .


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Because (for me) it compromises the reviewers ability to be seen as impartial and objective
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Everything compromises the reviewers ability to be seen as impartial & objective.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

None of these suggestions have a cat in hells chance of being adopted anyway , so its a mute point .

Even if there were, said reviews would just be linked back here from another source , as James Hoffman videos are for instance.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> None of these suggestions have a cat in hells chance of being adopted anyway , so its a mute point .
> 
> Even if there were, said reviews would just be linked back here from another source , as James Hoffman videos are for instance.


 *moot point

At least JH's stuff is funded by Patreon contributions and then given away to one of the contributors.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

filthynines said:


> *moot point
> 
> At least JH's stuff is funded by Patreon contributions and then given away to one of the contributors.


 I remember when we had raffles here, but the amount of crap people got for organising with manufacturers and whether the fine print was legal or the variety of the draw. them and the fuss seemed to put an end to those too.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LOL I'm worried I agree with MrBoots. On these recent posts anyway.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> LOL I'm worried I agree with MrBoots. On these recent posts anyway.
> 
> John
> 
> -


 I hear the four horseman....


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> I hear the four horseman....


 *four horsemen

Just getting in before filthy ?


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I think this thread needs something calmer ?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I remember when . . . Our village had a shop, a post office, no speed limits, and I could ride my pony round the lanes without being run over, put him back in his field in the certain knowledge he wouldn't be attacked, go to the phone box and spend 2p to ring my mum for a lift home . . . . Those were the days 

I would love to see another raffle but if it breaks the law then it can't be done, I suppose.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> I remember when . . . Our village had a shop, a post office, no speed limits, and I could ride my pony round the lanes without being run over, put him back in his field in the certain knowledge he wouldn't be attacked, go to the phone box and spend 2p to ring my mum for a lift home . . . . This were the days
> 
> I would love to see another raffle but if it breaks the law then it can't be done, I suppose.


 Yeah the raffle police spoil all the fun


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> jimbojohn55 said:
> 
> 
> > Because (for me) it compromises the reviewers ability to be seen as impartial and objective
> ...


 Yes even just owning it can and as all always various factor might or might not influence any comments that are made or reviews.

Anyway the person that was inferred by some of these posts is probably feeling some what alienated and might even be wondering why they bother posting. It doesn't really matter if what they did was a source of income, a way of getting cheaper equipment or anything else anyone can think of. They are just opinions and I am sure this particular person wouldn't have much to do with encouraging the sale of rubbish as a matter or principle.

Actually a lot of people on this forum tend to be rather disparaging about cheaper equipment and they may have never ever been near it what ever it is. It's similar even in the area of what they do to brew coffee.

Anyway I'll propose some. 

Anyone who has involvement in this particular coffee business declare it and state what it is. This would also include people who make things in their spare time or otherwise.

Another. Any comment anyone makes relating to something that they have no direct experience of states so what ever it is.

John

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## Junglebert (Jan 7, 2019)

Reviews are compromised full stop. 'Professional' reviewers often seem to go through the motions, don't properly engage with the product or service in question, and you know that this time next week they'll be reviewing something else that they don't really give a fuck about. Semi professional ones have a much smaller pool to swim in, won't get access to everything they'd like, won't get things from people who know they won't get a glowing review, and get more help than they should from people who know they'll get excellent reviews. Then there's the have a go heroes, the average forum chimp who thinks how hard can it be, and takes 1000 words to tell you how many pages there are in the manual, what their old machine was and why they actually wish they'd bought something else.

So.... in 2019 reviews are shit! Whether it's coffee machines, pro audio equipment, cars, anything, they're a waste of every ones time, if you want to fine out about things, join a specialist forum or Facebook group, and ask intelligent questions.

Anyone know any good forums?


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