# Distribution, tamping and clumping



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Broke out the naked handle today as I had a bit of time,

Shocking , darker extractions on one side, lighter on the other . I am happy with the dosing and adjusting the grind to alter extraction times and can adjust the grind finer and coarser to suit.

But I am thinking I could improve my distribution technique . I am not doing the thwacking method but rather allowing the grind to fall into the doser and fill the basket from there. There are a few clumps in the grind but after a little nutation with the tamper all seems fine. I have tried the cocktail stick and swirling in the basket which makes little difference.

Am I asking too much from the super jolly , or is it just my technique that needs revising.

I have been happy with the end result so far and I have been getting good constancy , but the naked handle doesn't lie and the extraction is far from perfect.

Group head and screen are spotless as well as basket.

i am using a 58mm convex tamper maybe 58.4 will make a difference i don't know.

Would sieving the grind show up if its the SJ

and yes if need be I will do some video clips .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hello

It's more likely your technique , yes clips will help . Try thwacking , the doser is there is get rid of the clumps, thwack baby ...

How are you prepping the basket after ?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

No grinds are going straight into the basket which is in the handle.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Clips of the extraction and prep are required









Otherwise you might get loads of different tips and techniques to try .

I would start by letting us look at your technique before you start getting sieves etc .

It is more likely uneven spread of coffee in the basket but a clip will determine that

In the end taste is king and pretty pours aren't the be all and end all but it sounds like currently you could improve your extractions by making them more even across the coffee and therefore make more tasty ....


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## Mike mc (Apr 10, 2012)

If your using a vst or ims basket then a 58.4mm torr or similar will definately help.i was struggling with channeling etc and uneven extractions.new tamper solved it most of the time unless I mess up the distribution


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I didn't bother thwacking when I had my SJ - I found a little nutating does wonders. Nice even pours with no spritzing.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Thwack and nutate is the way forward


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As up you can see , thwack, don't thwack, different basket , different tamper , nutate , don't nutate .

not saying any of above are right or wrong , just really hard to tell

clips please ...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Is your doser exit chute modded?


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Had Michael from funinacup round today, found the distribution made quite a difference to the output from the bottomless but after a while did the continuous thwack with nutating a bit and a not so heavy tamp it all came out perfectly


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Now going to tesco to see what they have to hold iPad for video


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Now going to tesco to see what they have to hold iPad for video


Check out assistant ?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

When I feel the grind is a bit clumpy, I grind into a china cup and beat it with a basket whisk before transferring to the PF and using a paper clip taped to a lolly stick to stir. That usually sorts out troublesome distribution for me. NB I use a china cup because I've learned some plastic cups can create static.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Just done a video struggling to get the link up! Weird as well got a pretty good extraction . Sod's law


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Upload it to Youtube


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

https://plus.google.com/102291579038353047872/posts/c6W2spnrV56

here try this,


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Before you say it i know it came through quite quick but it did have a longer than usual pre infusion as I was messing around with the camera


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Still some dead spots there. Reflecting uneven distribution of coffee in the pf


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Still some dead spots there. Reflecting uneven distribution of coffee in the pf


Any ideas on a solution ? Cocktail stick


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Apart from looking quite fast and some unnecessary finger action at the beginning what was wrong with that? Personally I would have nutated less aggressively and only tamped down once followed by a light polish.

Is your tamper flat or convex?

The important thing is how did it taste?


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

What was the weight of the final shot.. You didn't seem to be weighing it... That would tell you if the pre-infusion does account for the quick pour. From my eye pre infusion or not it looked a bit quick and I would suspect you need to grind finer... I'm no pro though so please ignore if the expert disagree....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As Daren says taste is king. And no where near as bad as the one you described.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Didn't weigh that shot i am affraid as I had enough to think about with the camera and such, not one of my finest moments. Extraction ratios weight in and weight out not an issue , I was more wanting to flag up distribution technique as I think there is an issue there. Probably my technique

If I was going on points for taste , I ended up drinking it .6/10 lovely mouthfeel .


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Looks to me like the nutation is uneven. Tamper goes below the rim North to South but not East (nearest camera). This correlates with where the flow appears first.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

stevenh said:


> Had Michael from funinacup round today, found the distribution made quite a difference to the output from the bottomless but after a while did the continuous thwack with nutating a bit and a not so heavy tamp it all came out perfectly


Ah so you getting there now Steven? Glad to hear you've had some pro help:


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Yup Jason, getting there









Michael agrees that machine running a bit hot and the flushing is strange but should be getting a Sirai Pressurestat next week hopefully will sort it all out


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Glad to hear it. Getting to grips with the SJ?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

A quick word regarding preinfusion. Generally speaking the longer you preinfuse the faster the shot will run after preinfusion and dwell time as the pump comes up to pressure. Gary has posted a link in a thread I can't seem to find linking to one of James Hoffmans blog posts on this subject. The implications of this are basically that you can grind a little tighter and with a longer preinfusion (even easier if you also have control over preinfusion pressure) still get your shot to come out inside the "usual" guidelines. I use the word guidelines because that is all a 1:1.6 brew ratio and 25-30 seconds are. I'm currently having great success with running shots around 1:1.9 brew ratio in 38-40 seconds including 11 seconds preinfusion at 61% of full pressure.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Echo that surface wasn't even - looked to be sloping away from you a lot.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't press down on the bed when distributing the grind - use your first finger to gently spread out the dose evenly. Then tap the portafilter down on your tamping mat to dislodge any caves in your dose - only do this once - don't over do it! - firm but light tap. Wouldn't advise nutating as aggressively as in the clip - again more gently. When tamping,try placing your thumb and first finger where the rim of the tamper meets the portafilter basket - this will give you feedback on how level and true your are puck-wise to basket wall.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I wouldnt add any downwards pressure whilst polishing


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice guys, will try and be a bit more gentle, looking at the clip myself i would agree it does look quite aggressive.

Because of there being a gap between the basket and tamper it leaves a small rim of coffee around the edge.

And I do try and make it a level honest.

in my defence its a bit different ball game with the camera there as to get it in the shot there is not the normal room I would give myself and its like trying to do everything on a postcard.

i was never sure if a tapping of the handle was a good idea, seen plenty of people do it on the grinder forks but I thought it was a no no ????


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Single firm tap on tamping mat is fine.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Will apply advice given and then try post another video.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

58.4mm tamper only works well with straight sided baskets like VSTs and the like. If the basket has a tapered design from midway down, 58.4mm tamper not so good.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> 58.4mm tamper only works well with straight sided baskets like VSTs and the like. If the basket has a tapered design from midway down, 58.4mm tamper not so good.


I didnt know that, thanks for that snippit . I can see to today is going to be a good day


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

In the demands of science and if you're waiting for the next clip, be patient I am getting some truly dreadful extractions at the moment.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

https://plus.google.com/102291579038353047872/posts/fihhE4o91bb

sorry stopped the camera first at the end.

criticism welcome (not about camera technique as I already know)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How did it taste , looks like possibly little dead spot at the back ?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Yeah there was a small dead spot at the back , I must say I have a lot of treadful extractions today , but since I have stopped nutating the coffee is tasting a lot better. I have still got a little way to go and the distraction from the camera isn't helping. I have a total appreciation of other peoples videos now.

I am asking myself why I have spent the last few weeks with an elaborate tamping method, when as in life the simplest methods are normally the best.

Something to to be said about posting up videos for all too see , a sort of confessional self criticism. But ultimately even this morning feeling more confidant about the extractions although it still needs some fine tuning its easy to get stuck in your ways and there is always room for improvement .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Try again. this time move the basket in the of if you can after tamping at 180 degress. If the dead spot follows it around then it may indicate a slightly uneven tamp for example .

What works for you is best , simpler even better , and in the end what delivers best taste in cup is king.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Try again. this time move the basket in the of if you can after tamping at 180 degress. If the dead spot follows it around then it may indicate a slightly uneven tamp for example .
> 
> What works for you is best , simpler even better , and in the end what delivers best taste in cup is king.


good thinking batman ! (Will be this afternoon)


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Well so far the puck has lifted twice, I know this because there was an imprint of the screen in the top of the puck , I am guessing this is down too light a tamp ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What the dose and in what basket... Your rocket had pre infusion?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

17grams in , and no pre infusion , now going to have another go and try get clip, might try a pre infusion.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Rave signature Blend,

17grams in 38.5grams out

5 seconds pre infusion 25-30 second extraction

Decanted shot in to cold cup , dark berry flavour no acidity medium mouth feel.

poor lighting for camera looks like a dead spot at the back in the video but that was down to lighting and although a slow start extraction was fairly even.

https://plus.google.com/102291579038353047872/posts/a6Y9sAVQbsy

all criticism welcome.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Looks good , simpler and quicker prep . U happy with the taste ?

Will have less mouthfeel due to ratio but it's taste that important over mouthfeel ( to be anyway )


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Well happy with results, thinking its a 18g basket and 54mm convex tamper


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The shot looks ok, but it's how it tastes that matters. I'd probably pull it on a shorter extraction 17g in 27g out but all beans are different.

I didn't like signature as a straight espresso, much better with milk.

Just to recap.....apologies if you've said this already.

you're dosing 17g into what basket?

You have a flat tamper, is it a 58mm or a 58.4mm?

What grinder are you using?

The tamp looks a bit hard still to me (difficult to tell though).

I've not used your kit but I've found I've got better result with the grind finer tamp lighter combination. I've found hard tamps have lead to pucks fracturing. This is only in my experience though.

And yes....it's as frustrating as "heck" when you're starting out trying to perfect espresso.


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