# Bitter espresso



## Hellmooth (Jan 7, 2020)

Hi all,

I'm new to espresso making, I have a DTP and DCP, I'm trying all the different grind settings from 1-25 on the DCP it's a great machine, tamping as I have been shown from the many videos I have watched, trying different pressures as well with the different grind sizes, I get some nice crema and also some thin at times depending on how I set things up. Question is why does my espresso always taste bitter? I am using Levazza Rossa chocolate beans. Thanks


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Generally bitterness comes from too fine a grind (causing over-extraction) or too high a temperature. I'm not so sure of the science behind temperature, at a guess a higher temperature extracts flavour quicker and brings out bitter flavours A really high temperature also risks burning the coffee.

It could also simply be the beans.

Have you tried varying anything other than grind (ie temperature and beans)?

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Start by stopping using stale old coffee beans. 
I'm afraid where espresso is concerned if you put sh1t in you will get sh1t out. 
I'd predict (from assessing crema on beans of different ages including the Rossa) that those beans were roasted at least 6 months ago, if not a year. 
Roasting myself I believe beans deteriorate after about 2 weeks max.

Are you using the single wall or pressurised baskets?

I wouldn't even look at anything until you get decent beans tbh.

When you have got some decent beans make sure your DTP is up to temp by running 2 shot cycles and a steam wand purge. Also heat the PF.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Lavazza beans are vacuum packed & deteriorate quickly after opening, but are fine when newly opened.

Rossa contains Robusta, this tends to be more bitter than Arabica. Lavazza do have Arabica only products, like Oro.

It would be best when asking for help to relay the following for each shot:

Grind setting

Weight of ground dose in portafilter (not into grinder) to 0.1g

Weight of beverage landing in the cup (brew with the cup on scales) at end of shot.

Time that you had to run the pump for to get that weight.

If you make a bunch of shots changing everything, either we won't be able to see a pattern emerge, or making espresso is just impossible


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

I've found that Pact's fruit and nut espresso is a very good place to start - will be freshly roasted tasty and fairly forgiving (on technique and grind).

Tyr to give it a few days between roast date and staying to pull shots with them.

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## Hellmooth (Jan 7, 2020)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Generally bitterness comes from too fine a grind (causing over-extraction) or too high a temperature. I'm not so sure of the science behind temperature, at a guess a higher temperature extracts flavour quicker and brings out bitter flavours A really high temperature also risks burning the coffee.
> 
> It could also simply be the beans.
> 
> ...


 Hi, I have tried coarser grinds as well, and I can't change temp it's not variable? Thanks


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## Hellmooth (Jan 7, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Start by stopping using stale old coffee beans.
> I'm afraid where espresso is concerned if you put sh1t in you will get sh1t out.
> I'd predict (from assessing crema on beans of different ages including the Rossa) that those beans were roasted at least 6 months ago, if not a year.
> Roasting myself I believe beans deteriorate after about 2 weeks max.
> ...


 Hi,

Thanks for reply, as I say new to this so not clued up yet on beans, where do you recommend I get some new ones from?

I was using the double wall but changed to single when I realised I had it wrong way round for freshly ground beans!

I will make sure to do this I have been tasting every espresso to check taste so normally 4-5 in a row.

Thanks!


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## Hellmooth (Jan 7, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Lavazza beans are vacuum packed & deteriorate quickly after opening, but are fine when newly opened.
> 
> Rossa contains Robusta, this tends to be more bitter than Arabica. Lavazza do have Arabica only products, like Oro.
> 
> ...


 Maybe it is the beans, some of the shots look really go and stand up to the 'sugar test', the crema also looks really good?

Can you recommend where to get fresh beans?

I will do all this and report back appreciate your input!


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## Hellmooth (Jan 7, 2020)

KingoftheHeath said:


> I've found that Pact's fruit and nut espresso is a very good place to start - will be freshly roasted tasty and fairly forgiving (on technique and grind).
> 
> Tyr to give it a few days between roast date and staying to pull shots with them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


 Thanks I will get trying these straight away itching to taste some really good espresso!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Cartwheel, Craft House, Cofee Compass, Rave...all roasters to look at.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hellmooth said:


> Maybe it is the beans, some of the shots look really go and stand up to the 'sugar test', the crema also looks really good?
> 
> Can you recommend where to get fresh beans?
> 
> I will do all this and report back appreciate your input!


 The "sugar test"? You don't mean floating a spoonful of sugar on the crema? Forget this, it isn't a test of anything meaningful. Neither is crema a useful guide to favour quality, my best tasting shots frequently have next to no crema.

Each to their own, but ideally when you get shots right, the natural sweetness should balance the flavour, added sugar may not be necessary unless you have very sweet tooth.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The Rossa wont give the same taste in an espresso machine - full stop, It's not a good idea to read across from this sort of source of beans that suited people when used in a french press etc. It's a bean my son liked brewed that way - he agreed to throw them away after trying them via an espresso machine. He drank a lot of them at university and thought my wife might like it - she doesn't like bitterness in coffee.

Their Espresso blend improves and some of the others may do as well. They do produce some beans intended for an espresso machine but in 1kg packs for hotels etc. Details can be found on there site under commercial. The packs can be found on Amazon and that is probably the best source of any none fresh roasted beans of any make as they are far more likely to be fresh.

People seem to have had problems brewing these sources of beans and put it down to lack of freshness. I've tried several just for the sake of curiosity and never had any problems. Taste varies and I see many as crap. It's an odd area. My brother uses one in an aeropress and it makes decent coffee that even tastes like coffee  some fresh roasted don't. Stick these beans in an espresso machine and they taste awful, about the worst I have ever tried.

John

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