# Bosch VeroCafe and VeroCafe LattePro - Got each, problems with both



## Skezza (Sep 9, 2014)

Hello,

Long time no see







I've been enjoying a Delonghi ESAM 4200 for many years (nearing 10 now), however my place of work decided to 'recycle' (as in, throw in the bin) the old coffee machines before switching to a company leasing some big Jura monster thing. One is a VeroCafe and the other is a VeroCafe LattePro. They look identical, but one essentially offers a few more cups and can froth milk from a glass rather than using an old fashioned steamer.

Anyway, before they hit the bin, I intercepted them with my coffee machine intercepting skills and home they have come. Both are good machines, but both have issues but I don't think they'll be too hard to solve so I'm hoping you experts can help point me in the right direction.

So, first the *VeroCafe*. I suspect this one will be the easier to fix. It appears to make an OK cup (although I'll check again tonight, as I've not used it in a while), but the waste and drip tray get filled with 'coffee mud'. Just complete slush. It doesn't produce anything even remotely resembling the usual 'puck'. Something I suspect is leaking, maybe even worse than usual. Is there any usual suspects here? I am going to strip tonight and see if I can run it through a cycle and see if it starts throwing water everywhere. Maybe just a gasket?

The *VeroCafe LattePro* is obviously the better machine, but I think isn't going to be quite as straightforward.... or it could be incredibly straightforward. This does actually make a good cup of coffee and has no issue with waste, but there's clearly something not quite right. So far having switched on the machine maybe 5 times, it has come on two or three of those and the whirring noise will continue far longer than usual before 'Restart required' appears on the LCD Panel. Switch off, back on, and it's usually okay. Occasionally, after making a cup of coffee, the same will occur, whirring for much longer then 'Restart required'. This machine was actually deemed 'out of order' before being given to me as it was described as "smoking" by a colleague, but I'm not convinced tbh. I suspect people just got bored of the constant 'Restart required'.

Is it possible that this machine just needs a proper good clean?

I've not really taken a closer look at either yet. Neither look as easy to take apart as the Delonghi which I've have apart once or twice.

Anyway, any help would be wonderful guys


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## Skezza (Sep 9, 2014)

So not a whole lot of feedback here







It doesn't appear that these machines are very common, especially on these forums, but I'll update the thread as I go as it may be useful for other people as well. So far much of the material I've found online is in German so it's been an interesting experience so far.

The brewing unit is a very simple design, much like the other auto bean-to-cups I've worked on (only Delonghi's). Actually, it's even simpler than the Delonghi ESAM one to work with. The only thing is, the machine as a whole is far more complicated to actually take apart to reveal the internals, so I haven't tried that yet. I'm hoping stripping and working on the brewing unit is where I need to really look and everything else is a red herring. Standard procedure though, you've got a brewing unit mechanism which is driven by a high torque motor via a standard gear-style mechanism.










First thing I did last night was clean the whole brewing unit and a quick clean of the rest of the machine. There was coffee caked EVERYWHERE. Worse than any unit I've come across.

I then serviced the brewing unit, there are two O-rings, using non-toxic food grease. Re-installed, and this did appear to improve things somewhat and I began to get the occasional puck in the waste bin, but they're quite moist still and after one or two cups I'm getting 'Clean Brewing Unit' and *the puck is sticking / stuck within the pressure mechanism?* Does it need to be a dry puck to release from the mech?

I'm going to keep using it every day to see if this improves, but I wonder if this is the issue:










After a puck failed to leave the basket, I essentially simulated the whole process using the handle end of a fork... First thing I noticed was a surprising amount of water flying down past this blue tube.... which screams O-Ring issue or the part above is blocked.










Possibly this O-Ring?? although I've inspected and it looks okay (and I did grease it up yesterday).... touchwood.










So then the only other possibility is this part...










According to eBay this is the drainage valve and clutch? It could be blocked or perhaps needs descaling. I will thoroughly descale it tonight using some of that evil oust stuff and then see what I can do.

It's better than it was, but it's still not right, and two or three cups shouldn't cause the brewing unit to require cleaning due to an unreleased puck. Bosch grrrr.

Still hoping some of you experts can help







?


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## Skezza (Sep 9, 2014)

Haha, OK, Well this is now a fact finding mission that anyone else can read up on seeing as I'm the only person on this tour. I WFH'd yesterday, which really means short of doing a few jobs I needed to, meant having about 4 or 5 solid hours to work on both machines. Descaling tablets on the way.

Cleaned from top to bottom, serviced brewing unit again, filled with fresh and started again. I decided to go for the *LattePro first* and undertake the quickest investigation ever. There's absolutely nothing mechanically wrong with this machine *AT ALL*...... I ran it through each cup and had no issue...... until Macchiato..... which reveals that one of the top clips on the door is broken.

So if you set it to Macchiato, the milk is frothed first and dispensed into the mug. After frothing the milk, the machine rapidly depressurises through the vents in the door, and it pops off giving the effect of smoke..... except it's not smoke, it's ****ing steam and I work with engineers who should know that!!! It did this right in front of me. Smoke != Steam. The reason it appeared as though steam was pouring out the unit is and it was broken is because, steam should be emptying from the unit and the cleaner/maintenance guy had tried to use masking tape on the door. So it appears as though the machine has malfunctioned. Nothing wrong. I had a lovely cup of double shot Macchiato this morning using the door off the other VeroCafe, which works absolutely fine.

I suspect trying to disable or short the switch will be a pain.... So I've undertaken an ambitious plan to rebuild a clip by layering epoxy resin. This will take a couple of days to build up the layers and then subsequently use something like a nail file to get the right thickness etc and eventually add a tiny ball on the end which is require to insert correctly. I've done this before on a car part in-which I ripped a retaining screw holder out of a steering wheel. A week or so of rebuilding a new tube, and a self tapper later







Sorted. I would get a new door if I could, but unlike the DeLonghi units, spare parts for these machines appear to be almost impossible to find









Considering this machine cost in excess of £1000 new, I'm pretty chuffed with that







Amazes me that nobody else at work had the endeavour to actually look.

So, back the *VeroCafe*, I'm fairly certain I've now worked out the issue. I re-serviced the the brewing unit and no water is escaping down that pipe like in my second post, however I've noticed the catch which is designed to lock when the puck is in the container is not always locking. This means as the machine returns to the original position the puck is still within the basket. Two or three cups later and you've got the effect of a triple shot been filtered through and I doubt it's good for the motor and usually a 'clean brewing unit' error. I have tried using compressed air to clear debris, but I think perhaps this catch is simply worn out. It does sometimes hold but quite often not. The problem is, a new brewing unit is a painful £80 + £5 shipping from Germany.... and I'm not 100% certain that this is the issue. It could just be me talking bollocks.... I'm fairly confident, but is that enough? Hmm.

Might just have to tell my sister (the soon to be new owner) that she needs to clean the brewing unit once a day. Can't hurt I suppose?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

You're not typing completely into thin air mate, I'm quietly reading about your resurrection of these coffee beasts! Plus there is always somebody somewhere who will find the info useful. Personally I just applaud you for saving these things from going into landfill where your employer had sent them, so good on you for that! I think nobody has commented because it's all a bit far from most of our frame of reference. I'm struggling to visualise what these things look like. In my head I've got a 6' coffee vending machine, but perhaps they're actually counter top B2Cs? If they're not too huge for home then a bit of investment in spares and time will have saved you some cash, and kept these nearly working machines from being scrapped. Pic of them from the front maybe? I've just googled and yeah, there are worse things to have on a kitchen counter if you have the space. 

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## Skezza (Sep 9, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> You're not typing completely into thin air mate, I'm quietly reading about your resurrection of these coffee beasts! Plus there is always somebody somewhere who will find the info useful. Personally I just applaud you for saving these things from going into landfill where your employer had sent them, so good on you for that! I think nobody has commented because it's all a bit far from most of our frame of reference. I'm struggling to visualise what these things look like. In my head I've got a 6' coffee vending machine, but perhaps they're actually counter top B2Cs? If they're not too huge for home then a bit of investment in spares and time will have saved you some cash, and kept these nearly working machines from being scrapped. Pic of them from the front maybe? I've just googled and yeah, there are worse things to have on a kitchen counter if you have the space.
> 
> ___
> 
> Eat, drink and be merry


I'll take a photo of the front to give you an idea how they would fit next to my ESAM 4200. I suspect they're slightly taller, but the extra varieties in drink make them a much more versatile machine.

I'm not entirely sure what you'd classify these as. They're certainly a B2C but they seem a bit more expensive than a stereotypical home machine. Perhaps are they the kind of thing you might find in perhaps a budget hotel with one of those free-standing milk refrigerators next to it? Especially the VeroCafe LattePro has a separate intake for milk and not just a steam tube.

I am never happy when work throw these machines in the bin. I heard of one being binned because the tank seal was leaking..... I mean, come on. What's a tank seal going to cost? £5 and half an hour to fix. What a waste. Obviously now having switched to the JURA thing I suspect another company will do the maintenance, so not our problem now.

I'm still fairly confident the issue lies in the brewing unit. I did some further work and discovered how you can blag the door switch. Something like a very thin nail file will do it. So I inspected the brewing unit as it operated. It doesn't seem to consistently lock the catch and if you watch closely, the mechanism never fully engages. I marked where it should be and it's about 1 or 2 degrees off. However, despite not being compatible, I used the brewing unit out of the other to verify that the motor appears to be compressing the grounds hard enough and sure enough, the incompatible brewing unit did operate correctly, although the water wasn't properly dispensed.

Now all I can do is strip the old brewing unit, clean it up, reassemble, hope it works. There are almost no instructions online so it'll just have to be a make it up as I go along jobby.

If it doesn't, order a new brewing unit. I've asked a friend at work if he can lend me his to give it a try (the only other person who took one of these machines about 2 years ago).


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## Skezza (Sep 9, 2014)

So after a week or so of effort, I've layered a new clip for the broken door and so far... we seem to be in business. I used a coarse file to remove excess epoxy and a sapphire nail file to finely tune. I made a small ball of epoxy which I then allowed to dry and then coated that with fresh wet epoxy yesterday to ensure a nice consistent finish.

Tried this morning. Wasn't quite there, little bit of filing. Job done









This was the still attached clip. It was also broken back, so I pushed it back super-glued it into play, then layered epoxy behind to give it a nice firm and rigid support. I know they're supposed to be flexible, but ultimately, all I can do is hope this fix will last. The little nib on the end is a bit of epoxy that I added to help keep it secure.










Now the missing clip. The camera slightly over exposed it, but you can just about see the little blob on the end to replicate the ball.


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## briancambridge (Oct 14, 2019)

Hi, great information in these posts thanks.

I have the same issue in the drip tray fills so fast, I do get decent 'pucks' which are fairly dry. Seems to be getting better with a number of calc/clean and descales, but lots of water after each cup which make me think I'm not getting full measures each time. I have greased both the o'rings but the blue pipe and o ring don't seem to want to engage fully&#8230; any thoughts?


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## Eddystone82 (Sep 18, 2020)

Had a Verocafe, bought 2 years ago. Had same problem with grounds going everywhere from new, after 18 months the grinder got blocked. Gone back to Bosch, eventually, think they are sending me a new one, which I shall sell. Before this I had a Siemens S60, bought from Ebay, at least 5 years old, lasted me another 5 years. How can a grinder get blocked after 18 months?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Eddystone82 said:


> How can a grinder get blocked after 18 months?


 Fine grind, humidity... Eventually the coffee will cake up and block the chute or even the burr chamber. That's why you should keep your machine and your grinder clean. Just because you can't see doesn't mean you shouldn't clean. For instance, an example of a usual routine (with semi-auto machines - I'm not talking about this VeroCafe machines specifically)

- Every week, remove shower screen and clean behind it;
- Every month, backflush the machine with detergent. This will clean the coffee path;
- Always clean the steam wand, otherwise milk will cake;
- Clean the grinder every couple of months. You don't want the coffee oils building up, or coffee getting caked up and blocking the path!


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