# Which Lelit for a complete beginner?



## stevie6

I've been reading up on coffee making on this forum.

Drinking a lot of Nespresso, and looking for a new hobby and something to play around with during endless lockdowns.

Currently mostly drink "flat white" type coffees, but made with milk heated in the the microwave or Nespresso frother. Happy enough with that so far. But know (or at least suspect) I can do better.

A typical entry point to coffee geekdom seems to be an old Gaggia Classic + various MacGyver mods. Total cost then gets to around £500 if you can find a suitable ancient Gaggia. And for that kind of money I can get a brand new Lelit Grace that appears to do proper pressure and temperature control, and subjectively looks a lot better (and is covered by warranty). Sounds like a no brainer.

But the Lelit Elizabeth has been recommended - dual boiler and some extra features that I can see might ultimately be useful down the line. If I do actually get into this as a hobby. But it is double the price, and a bit bigger in size (but still fairly compact).

I could afford the cost of the Elizabeth. But adding a suitable grinder (that in itself is a hard problem to solve - everyone seems to say get a Niche - but they are unobtainable) takes the overall cost to around £1600. The Grace plus some cheaper grinder could be done for less than £800.

Maybe the Grace is all I need (today). As a complete beginner, would I see some benefit in doubling the budget? Would I actually learn to make better coffee faster?

There is a risk both ways. Either I get into this, and want to upgrade stuff fairly soon. Or I don't and have some expensive kit in a cupboard (or for sale).

Space for both coffee machine and grinder is really limited - grinder will probably have to live in a cupboard and only come out when being used. So that may be a factor.

Asking on this Lelit thread to get the thoughts of the Lelit users. Of course, there may be other options, but the Lelit machines do appeal - I'm not into lots of bling and chrome, and prefer something functional and simple looking - but not hideously ugly like the Gaggia :-}


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## DavecUK

The more expensive machine will be easier to use. I think the MaraX is about £950, will do everything you need and very very easy to use. Then there is just the grinder after that.


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## stevie6

DavecUK said:


> The more expensive machine will be easier to use. I think the MaraX is about £950, will do everything you need and very very easy to use. Then there is just the grinder after that.


 In what ways easier to use? Less likely to mess things up?

There seems to be a general shortage of machines for sale in the UK. I can only see the Grace and Elizabeth for sale on one web site (a sponsor of this site).

Not sure of the rules on this forum - is it acceptable to ask for recommendation for good vendors? Or ones to avoid?


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## DavecUK

Our sponsors are good and many sell a range of machines. Some Sell the Lelit, others sell a machine like the ACS Minima a dual boiler, again very easy to use. Bella barista and Black Cat coffee are both forum sponsors who sell these machines and many others.


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## cuprajake

For any machine temp stability it key,

A pid almost a must.

Your going to get a bit annoyed man handling a grinder out of a cupboard day in day out, if thats the case then a smaller hand grinder may do the job. Esp if you have arm muscles.

Something like this.






Just shy of £200.

Id also price up a 57mm tamper, and blind back flush basket, as far as im aware there are no 57mm vst/ims baskets, but most likely wrong on that haha.

You'll need scales, something like the yuaga work well. Less than £20


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## 24774

I'm not a Lelit owner but from reading the forum over the last 18 months there are a few options, none of which 'the right answer', just ways to go.

1) Go cheap, see if you 'get into coffee'. I was at the point you were, decided to go budget to see if I cared enough to carry on taking it seriously. If I didn't I hadn't wasted a load of money. Examples here might be a Sage BE if you can get it for about £350, a fully modded pre-2015 Gaggia Classic and cheap grinder, maybe the Eureka Facile (or Crono which seems to be gaining a bit of attention it seems. That does espresso apparently, £180).

2) Go mid range. Next step up is something like Lelit MaraX or ACS Minima or Bezerra BZ10 with a Mignon Specialita or Niche. Sizable investment but the next ballpark after budget.

3) Go expensive. Many espouse the 'buy once, buy right' school of thought. Which is fine if you've already decided what you want to do, less so if you're not sure if you'll actually get in the 'scene' and use the kit. People will say you can move it on and not lose too much, but that's a hassle given the weight of these machines, especially during a pandemic.

3) Buy a better grinder, the basis of any good set up, something like an Eureka Specialita (£350) or Niche (£500), (or something from the for sale section) and a cheaper machine (again something well looked after from the for sale section of this website for instance). That way, even if you don't get into espresso machines you have the grinder for other forms of coffee you might like or want to try or you can move it on more easily than a big machine. Moving the grinder about everyday...that's a bit of an downside, I don't often see that. The Niche is on the smaller/lighter side you'll just have to wait a bit for it. That's something small you could sell easily on this site and not lose much. Other than that consider hand grinders, something like the 1Xpresso JX or JX Pro (£150/£180). Given your space issues that's worthy of consideration.

Don't forget to budget £80-100 for accessories.



stevie6 said:


> Or ones to avoid


 CoffeeItalia. So many bad stories on this site about them.


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## stevie6

Cuprajake said:


> For any machine temp stability it key,
> 
> A pid almost a must.
> 
> Your going to get a bit annoyed man handling a grinder out of a cupboard day in day out, if thats the case then a smaller hand grinder may do the job. Esp if you have arm muscles.
> 
> Something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just shy of £200.
> 
> Id also price up a 57mm tamper, and blind back flush basket, as far as im aware there are no 57mm vst/ims baskets, but most likely wrong on that haha.
> 
> You'll need scales, something like the yuaga work well. Less than £20


 Working on where to put the grinder :-} If I get a small enough coffee machine and grinder, I may have room for both. I had considered a manual one to start with. Thanks.


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## DavecUK

stevie6 said:


> In what ways easier to use? Less likely to mess things up?
> 
> There seems to be a general shortage of machines for sale in the UK. I can only see the Grace and Elizabeth for sale on one web site (a sponsor of this site).
> 
> Not sure of the rules on this forum - is it acceptable to ask for recommendation for good vendors? Or ones to avoid?


 Switch it on, warm it up, once you have the grind right it's just a matter of lifting the lever and weight the output, stopping when you get the required amount. No worrying about HX flushing. No complications. More expensive machines (up to a point) are just easier to use...until you get to the more exotic and full feature models with pressure profiling etc..


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## Dallah

DavecUK said:


> The more expensive machine will be easier to use. I think the MaraX is about £950, will do everything you need and very very easy to use. Then there is just the grinder after that.


 I bought a MaraX, having previously had a dual boiler machine (Sage DB) and don't feel I have downgraded in anyway. The fact that the MaraX is more "labour intensive" is part of its charm. That said it honestly is walk up pull the lever up for your shot to start and just weigh the output to know when to stop. It's a beautifully made machine, very quiet for being a vibe pump and very compact. My wife actually likes mine. She was less than impressed by the SDB.


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## Mickmcgett

Hi im the exact same as you mate. Been reading reviews & looking up YouTube videos of different machines. I've decided on the lelit elizabeth but can't decide what grinder to get. Wanted the niche but more chance of finding a unicorn. So either the eureka specialita or the XL but can't get any of them in white which I need for my kitchen.


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## stevie6

Mickmcgett said:


> Hi im the exact same as you mate. Been reading reviews & looking up YouTube videos of different machines. I've decided on the lelit elizabeth but can't decide what grinder to get. Wanted the niche but more chance of finding a unicorn. So either the eureka specialita or the XL but can't get any of them in white which I need for my kitchen.


 The Elizabeth does seem to tick a few boxes. I think maybe the review I read where it seems you can just stick it on a timer to come on in the morning and leave it on all day probably sways it for me somewhat. I'm kind of used to the Nespresso just making me coffee 10 seconds after I decide I want one. Not sure how good the Grace would be for that - if I have to wait 20 minutes, I'll probably not bother and end up using the Nespresso (that will still be around for decaf duties).

I had naively thought that I probably wouldn't care (or couldn't tell the difference) if I just ground up enough coffee to last me the day in one batch, then put the grinder back in the cupboard. Or even bought decent good pre-ground stuff to start with if I can't find a decent small grinder and have to wait 6 months for a Niche. I've only ever drunk Nespresso and the odd Starbucks, so the bar is very, very low to get some improvement.


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## Zorkin

I got my first kit round Xmas 
A Victoria ( a kind of single boiler Elizabeth ) 
And a eureka mignon.

The simpler eurekas can be had for about 250 plus and the Victoria cost me about 700 so this kit can fit in a 1k budget. ( I got the specialita which was 330 or so )

My daily schedule is 2/3 flat whites and 2/3 americanos.

I was not sure if I wanted yet another hobby so was aiming at a small kit that can do a fast start , simple low maintenance and can still make good coffee.

Early days but so far so good. As mentioned in other threads the good kit can be sold second hand if you want out /upgrade so it's not a great risk.

Only after doing this for a while you'll know if you want to go deeper ( a higher end machine / grinder etc ) or just use a bean to cup / capsule because it isn't fun.

An advantage to stating with simpler equipment is cost and appreciation of the better equipment when you get it. The downside is it may be tricky and frustrating to produce coffee you enjoy.

Good luck !


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## Ando

Also a beginner and received an Elizabeth last week. So far it has been great to use, looks great, easy to keep clean etc.. No negatives / niggles. I briefly had a Gaggia Classic for a couple of weeks previously and the difference is night and day. If you can afford it, then just go for it.

@MickmcgettRe the Niche, they told me the other day when I enquired that there will be a batch for April shipping, so fingers crossed. Also heard a whisper there is something similar getting released soon that will rival it 👀


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## stevie6

Thanks, all.

I've had both the Grace and Elizabeth flip-flopping around in my online baskets all day. Can't seem to find anyone selling the Victoria.

And the grinder. I guess I would have no trouble shifting on a Eureka if I ever did get a Niche (or similar).


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## Zorkin

Get the Elizabeth.


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## cuprajake

Mickmcgett said:


> Hi im the exact same as you mate. Been reading reviews & looking up YouTube videos of different machines. I've decided on the lelit elizabeth but can't decide what grinder to get. Wanted the niche but more chance of finding a unicorn. So either the eureka specialita or the XL but can't get any of them in white which I need for my kitchen.


 You tried clumsy goat fpr grinder


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## EmmaC

Mickmcgett said:


> So either the eureka specialita or the XL but can't get any of them in white which I need for my kitchen.


 Bella Barista have the XL65 in white on pre-order, due in at the end of the month.


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## Mickmcgett

Had a look on there website they have one but they dont have much about what warranty you get with it. Think there just a broker for eureka so if anything breaks on it I would probably have to deal with eureka directly. Thats what it seems like.


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## EmmaC

I received my XL from BB on Tuesday. You get a two year warranty. If anything goes wrong, you deal direct with BB, they're super helpful.


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## Mickmcgett

EmmaC said:


> I received my XL from BB on Tuesday. You get a two year warranty. If anything goes wrong, you deal direct with BB, they're super helpful.


 I was talking about clumsy goat warranty. Probably will just wait on BB getting there stock back in cause of there 2 year warranty plus you just deal with them & also you can transfer it to another person if you decide to sell it.


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## forsh

@Mickmcgett https://machina-coffee.com/products/eureka-mignon-v3-specialita-colours-cr-standard?variant=31438108491876


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