# Group head leaking during shot



## Franzpan

Ive just bought a used Fracino Heavenly, went to pull a shot and water spews out from over the portafilter during the shot. It seems the portafilter isn't sealing into the grouphead well enough. Is there anything that could be causing this other than a worn out seal? Or anything I could do to fix it? Just asking on here before I phone the seller.

Thanks for your help.


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## DonRJ

First thing to do is extract the seal and inspect it, likely to be that. If it is hard and cracked get another but if still a bit of give, clean it up and try it out while waiting for a nice new one (buy two so a spare is at hand). At the same time give the machine a good clean through with cleaner (backflush with Pulycaf or Cafiza) and perhaps even a descale


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## Glenn

99% chance it is a worn seal.

Is the Portafilter an OEM or aftermarket part? (eg is it the correct one for the machine?)


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## sandykt

Franzpan - out of interest where did you buy the Heaven from?


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## Franzpan

Thanks for all the help guys, ive found it works fine if I twist the portafilter in really tight. Itll keep me going until I order a couple of seals. AFAIK they are the OEM portafilters, there is a double one and a single with a pod adapter. Ive also got a Rancillio portafilter which dosent twist in as tight.

Sandy, I bought it of the Bay. Did you see it by any chance?


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## Greenpotterer

Franzpan said:


> Thanks for all the help guys, ive found it works fine if I twist the portafilter in really tight. Itll keep me going until I order a couple of seals. AFAIK they are the OEM portafilters, there is a double one and a single with a pod adapter. Ive also got a Rancillio portafilter which dosent twist in as tight.
> 
> Sandy, I bought it of the Bay. Did you see it by any chance?


I put a few bids in myself hope you enjoy it

Gaz


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## Glenn

Using incorrect portafilters will only exacerbate the issue, as the flanges are not the same width/depth and angle, therefore the seal bends and stays that shape in often the wrong places (it should be flat and level)

Try and avoid using the Rancilio PF unless its an exact match

Baskets are largely interchangeable though


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## Franzpan

Thanks for that Glen ,never knew that. Ill stick with the originals then.


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## Franzpan

Just had a look up In the group with a torch and the seal is definitely past its best, its all dried up and is the texture of hard plastic. I cant for the life of me get it out though, I have take the screw out in the middle of the dispersion screen which releases the mesh screen but then there is the shower plate (not sure if that is the correct name) and the seal above that. Ive tried pulling both but nothing gives. Anyone know how I can get it out?


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## Eyedee

This is my post from 3 weeks ago, different machine but the same problem. Finished up cutting and scraping bits off until I could get underneath it with a screwdriver, dont damage the machine though.

Tonights experience.

When you read the forums about gasket replacement they lull you into thinking that it's only a matter of putting in a couple of screws and pulling the gasket out, DO NOT BE DECEIVED.

I ordered a gasket thinking it would be like an "O" ring and was surprised when it was an 8mm thick circle of rubber. The screw idea made sense then.

Empty the machine of water and remove the whole of the base drip tray just to gain access, to be on the safe side take off the shower screen so it doesn't get damaged.

45 minutes later I have a worktop full of screwdrivers, pointy things and numerous screws of various sizes.

The gasket is still in place. Screws fasten in but just pull out of the gasket when pressure is applied. Frustration mounts.

Lubriction is the answer, rubber clings to any surface and needs lubrication to release it, drown it in Fairy Liquid and leave it to soak, the edges of the gasket need to be released.

After another 15 minutes the gasket finally gives in and unwillingly comes out of its seating. It appears to be a circle of hard, brittle, unyeilding rubber. I can understand why it was leaking now, it is totally baked hard and has no softness to seal on to the the portafilter.

If you think that every time you use the machine it gets very hot and that heat transfers to this gasket, This makes the gasket dry out over time and makes it prone to leaking.

New gasket in place, now we wait for the morning brew.


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## BanishInstant

As well as remove the shower screen also remove the shower head - you will need metric allen keys for this. Once this is off, screw in some screws into the existing gasket. They need to penetrate enough to get a good grip but not to screw into the metal above it. I used three screws and kept giving them little tugs until the gasket released its grip.

When you insert the replacement, nudge it up millimeter-by millimeter all around the edge. If you push too deep on one side then the other refuses to push up.


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## Coffedrinker

I want to restart this old thread since I have a new Cherub (well, new 6 months ago) that leaks around the portafilter during a shot. I've unscrewed the shower plate screw and taken out the filter holder washer (part FC104) together with the shower plate (FC103M). There doesn't seem to be anything else within the group head that looks user-serviceable from what I can see. The two parts I've removed are as one at the moment and I'm not sure if they can be separated, however I have cleaned them up. I can't see any seals or anything rubber: the filter holder washer is heavy and looks like brass.

If this clean up does not stop the leaking would you advice contacting Fracino, or is there anything else I can do?

Many thanks


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## espressotechno

Group seals last approx. 12 months, whereupon they transform from rubber into "concrete".

The use of an awl and /or a gimlet will usually pull out an old seal.

Otherwise: Flip the disconnected & empty machine onto its back...then chisel the seal out, an inch at a time, using a thin bladed & sharpened screwdriver.

Buy 2 seals & 2 shower screens - replace seal & screen at the same time....it saves time later.....


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## Coffedrinker

espressotechno said:


> Group seals last approx. 12 months, whereupon they transform from rubber into "concrete".
> 
> The use of an awl and /or a gimlet will usually pull out an old seal.
> 
> Otherwise: Flip the disconnected & empty machine onto its back...then chisel the seal out, an inch at a time, using a thin bladed & sharpened screwdriver.
> 
> Buy 2 seals & 2 shower screens - replace seal & screen at the same time....it saves time later.....


Good advice, thanks


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## Bullneck

Eyedee said:


> This is my post from 3 weeks ago, different machine but the same problem. Finished up cutting and scraping bits off until I could get underneath it with a screwdriver, dont damage the machine though.
> 
> Tonights experience:
> 
> When you read the forums about gasket replacement they lull you into thinking that it's only a matter of putting in a couple of screws and pulling the gasket out, DO NOT BE DECEIVED. I ordered a gasket thinking it would be like an "O" ring and was surprised when it was an 8mm thick circle of rubber. The screw idea made sense then. Empty the machine of water and remove the whole of the base drip tray just to gain access, to be on the safe side take off the shower screen so it doesn't get damaged. 45 minutes later I have a worktop full of screwdrivers, pointy things and numerous screws of various sizes. The gasket is still in place. Screws fasten in but just pull out of the gasket when pressure is applied. Frustration mounts.
> 
> Lubrication is the answer, rubber clings to any surface and needs lubrication to release it, drown it in Fairy Liquid and leave it to soak, the edges of the gasket need to be released. After another 15 minutes the gasket finally gives in and unwillingly comes out of its seating. It appears to be a circle of hard, brittle, unyeilding rubber. I can understand why it was leaking now, it is totally baked hard and has no softness to seal on to the the portafilter. If you think that every time you use the machine it gets very hot and that heat transfers to this gasket, This makes the gasket dry out over time and makes it prone to leaking.
> 
> New gasket in place, now we wait for the morning brew.


This was pretty much my experience this morning. However, I didn't want to deal with rinsing and re-rinsing the group head for 20 minutes so I took the machine outside, put it upside down on an outdoor dining table and chipped away at the 12 year old gasket with a box cutter until it was completely removed. When I finally got the machine plugged in again and ready to work I could hear a hissing noise from inside and with great trepidation took off the top tray. I could see one of what looked like two safety valves hissing steam and preventing the machine for reaching pressure. I unscrewed the top of the valve, fiddled with the little "stick" thingy that pops up, and then put the valve cap back on (not much else I could do, really).

To my delight and surprise the machine works again. Not as much crema in a a shot as I'd like (a grinder issue anyway, I believe), but at least it's working again.


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