# Grinders, Grinders and yet more grinders



## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Yes that`s me off again, contemplating the grinder future this time.

Anyway, there, broadly speaking appear to be a number of forum groupings in respect of grinder choices, apologies for any assumptions, errors or omissions.

1. The Iberital MC2 club, presumably purchased as mine was based on performance per pound and generally good reviews on the net.

2. The Mahlkonig Vario group, purchased as a result of excellent reviews ( some naysayers recently though) and the digital control system.

3. Zassenhausers et al, or no mate, elektrikery is the devils work and just check my fluffy grounds for not a lot of dosh.

4. The monolith grinders, Mazzer Robur et al, for those who will have and can afford the best.

5 . The rest, as in anyone who has bought something different (you`re the guys I`m mostly interested in but please chip in everyone).

So much for the grouping related preamble, I feel the need to consider a new grinder next year (grinder first, machine second mantra recited) and of course I want maximum grinder for least pennies.

So far, the Macap MC4 has caught my eye, Mazzer performance for a lot less? and Gaz on the forum seems to like his one.

I eagerly await your observations, comments etc.

Don


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

How about the Mazzer Mini?

Great piece of kit and a joy to use. Works well when paired with a Silvia. Fairly consistent grind size too. Clean as well.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

OK: here's the sum total of my experience, which isn't a lot!

My first serious grinder was an MC2, which worked great with my Pavoni. The only real issue that I had was that it threw the grinds about the place a bit - non-doser model - but this was easily contained by putting it on a stainless tray. My opinion of these grinders is that they are seriously good value for money, and you've got to spend considerably more to get anything better. I'd probably still have mine if I hadn't upgraded my coffee machine to a Rocket. When I did that the new machine took up a sizeable lump of kitchen workspace, but my wife didn't object because it's a smart looking piece of kit. On the other hand, she viewed to MC2 as somewhat agricultural in appearance, and supported a change.

So, armed with all the hype surrounding a Vario, that's what I bought next. And when I first got it, I loved it. That love affair lasted a couple of weeks, and then I started to see the warts. My opinion of the Vario is on other threads, but, in brief, I find its appearance somewhat ticky-tacky, and I don't like the adjustment mechanism, as it's all too easy to accidentally alter the grind settings. Removing the upper burr for cleaning reveals the plasticky nature of the innards of the machine. That said, it's now gone to a good new home, where it's a lot more appreciated than it was by me.

So, within six months of buying the Vario, I was doing serious research on a replacement. I actually thought that I was going to get a Super Jolly, until the wife saw one in the flesh, and vetoed it as just having too mammoth proportions for our kitchen. In retrospect, I tend to agree.

Seeing the good reviews of the Mignon, I was about to buy one of them. Claudette at BellaBarista put me off, explaining that one wouldn't be a sensible upgrade from the Vario, and also said that they, like the MC2, throw the grinds around a fair bit. Then I noticed that ChrisCoffee - the sole agent in the USA (selling under a different name) were selling their stock off at $100. It may be my problem, but that was the final nail in the coffin - I couldn't see myself swapping the Vario, bought at over £300 for something selling in the States for $100, regardless of how well reviewed it is.

I looked at the LaCimbali Junior - very well reviewed in the US, at around $500. So I contacted La Cimbali UK and asked if they could supply one. Of course they could - at over £500. Sorry - $500 in US, and £500+ here - no thank you!

I looked seriously at the small Macap - again on the strength of good reviews. But the only UK supplier who appeared to have them in stock was MyEspresso - 'nuff said. But I rang up to enquire, only to be told that they weren't a stock item after all, but that I should buy a commercially sized grinder, solely imported by him, that I'd never heard of before. So I passed on that.

In the meantime I'd used a mini Mazzer belonging to a friend, and decided, on the strength of that, that a doser wasn't for me.

Conclusion was the purchase of a Mazzer Mini -e. I've had it about three weeks now, and still love it. Dialled-in easily, and has worked faultlessly. I've heard of these clumping, but I've yet to experience it. Doses accurately and cleanly, and is quick and easy to clean. I expect it will see me out (famous last words).

Yeah, I'd love one of the juggernaut conical on-demand grinders like the Mahkonig or Robur, but they're just TOO big for our kitchen. Stand one on any worktop and it would be taller than the wife! That said, our house is on the market, and a larger, farmhouse-style kitchen is a given with any new house we buy. With the extra space, maybe a big conical bruiser, who knows?

Sorry, this is all very subjective and opinionated, but hope it helps. Other grinders were researched and discounted along the way, but nothing that I regret not buying. It's certainly been an interesting journey to get here. I know that the Mazzer will keep me happy for quite a while, regardless of what happens.

Now, what do I do about upgrading my Behmor???


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## espressoparts.co.uk (Feb 18, 2009)

Hi Everyone,

At espressoparts we are now selling the HC600 Grinder, Made with a heavy duty cast aluminum body, this grinder can operate automatically or semi-automatically.

This grinder is perfect for any site that is looking for a robust grinder at a very competative price.

* Available in 3 colours: Silver, Red & Black

* 1.2kg bean hopper

* Micrometric adjustment of coffee with doser adjustment

* 1600 RPM turning speed

* Fixed coffee tamper

* 64mm grinding blades

* 12 Months Return to Base Warranty

The Following Link Will Direct You

**link removed by Admin**

Any Feedback About this grinder would be helpful


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Looks interesting. The link to the PDFs on the site aren't working at the moment.


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

I use a Fracino C6 on my van










It is a very quick, automatic grinder which (touch wood!) I have run for nearly 3 years without it missing a beat!

I also sell this grinder, along with other Fracino grinders on my website

**link removed by Admin**

any feedback on Fracino grinders anyone is using would be really useful! Cheers

Andy


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Can we please keep this thread to reviews of grinders and not sales links

Links have been removed in the interest of fairness


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Is the Francino a re-badged Compak? Looks very similar. I recall reading a comparative review of the Compak Vs the Mini Mazzer, and it came off quite well. I actually had trouble sourcing one in the UK, but then gave up because of its size.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm keeping an eye on this thread. My MC2 is good, but I would love to know what is the next step.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Yeah, me too and I started it. it seems a bit Mazzer, hoo haa get with the plan marines or adverts form prospective sellers. \some objective critique would be nice espressoheads. Not that I am saying that a Mazzer might not be the way to go but.................

Don (mostly watching war movies)


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Don't know quite what you are expecting, Don. Most of us on this forum only have experience of a limited number of grinders, and about the best we can do is report our subjective opinions of them. I think that most of us have an in-bred reluctance to criticize any major purchase decision that we have made, so reviews by grinder-owners will tend to portray the positives, rather than be truly balanced, until the grinder is moved on and a replacement purchased.

I tried to illustrate the thought processes, and indeed anguish, that I went through in choosing a replacement for the Vario - but others will have totally different perspectives on what their requirements are. For me, size was an important consideration, as was an acceptable cosmetic appearance. Later in the search a doserless model became paramount. Others will have different criteria.

There's a whole wealth of information out there on other forums. I enjoyed the search, even though it was frustrating at times. The one thing that I discovered is that there's no-one out there with a magic bullet that will instantly guide you towards the correct choice - everyone's on their own there, I'm afraid!


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Fair comment, Vintage, I was reacting to my inner frustration that many of the grinders I have found that are available in the UK have little written about them and in some cases no amount of searching has even provided a full spec sheet let alone reviews. Brands such as Futurmat and Quamar for example.

Grinders are not complex machines in principal but they do have to be well designed and properly toleranced with the use of decent materials, why oh why do some manufacturers insist on using bits of plastic for crucial parts in otherwise solidly made products or design in some cunning ledge or crevice to trap grinds in the path to the portafilter/doser. Another issue is parts for some grinders seem a bit scarce in the UK which would not bode well for burr replacement if required

Mazzer clearly get it mostly right and I as ever would like to find Mazzer performance for less money, so far the best Mazzer deals I have found is the Mini timer for £363 or the Super Jolly timer for £411, both at A1 Coffee. I have also seen the Quamar M80 for £349 with a free stainless steel knock drawer and a refurbished Iberital MC5 for £111 elsewhere.

Since I am banging on a bit, I will outline why I am on the upgrade path.

1. A better grinder = better espresso and it will stand me in good stead for the future

2. I am getting irritated with the amount of grinds left in the chute and with some beans, bits of grind ending up all over the espresso end of the kitchen due to static.

Yea I know, fussy, fussy, fussy and the MC2 is a great little grinder and I probably should get a grip but it wouldn`t be espresso mania if I could.

Forgot to add that I am becoming rather attracted to the Macap MC4 doser version.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

[quote=DonRJ;11951 I was reacting to my inner frustration that many of the grinders I have found that are available in the UK have little written about them and in some cases no amount of searching has even provided a full spec sheet let alone reviews. Brands such as Futurmat and Quamar for example.

Oh how true that is! It came as a complete surprise to me that there was absolutely NO information on the net about some grinders. Interesting that you are favouring the Macap MC4 doser. One of the reasons that I eventually discounted the dosers was the problems in cleaning the innards of the doser. Another was - with the Mazzer Mini - how much got thrown about and missed the basket! I was really lucky to get the chance of using one before I made up my mind, or I would have been sorely disappointed if I'd bought one. This is the problem - you can end up investing a lot of money without the benefit of having tried out the product.

I love the worm-gear adjustment on the Macap, by the way. What I don't understand, though, is why it isn't made in such a way that it can be disengaged to facilitate large scale changes in the grind. It surely would be simple to arrange some sort of hinge, so the worm drive could be used for fine adjustment, but lifted out of the way to allow the entire collar to be turned by hand for macro adjustments?


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

The worm gear adjustment issue is not one of my worries in truth as the grinder will be dedicated purely to espresso production and I have another grinder for other grinding tasks when I go on holiday which is the only time I use any other methods. Mind you I did find a post where someone had modded the adjuster so it swung out of the way on the Macap presumably for gross adjustments.

The Macap allegedly has a very good doser which attracted me, time and finances will tell which way I jump, oh for somewhere like Seattle Espresso Gear to go and play for a while with equipment.

Don


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## Greenpotterer (Nov 29, 2009)

To be honest it only takes a few seconds with a small paint brush to clean the doser out on my MC4 It is an older model which has stepped increments for fineness and very little misses the basket when dispensing

Gaz


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## awlred (Mar 10, 2009)

The Iberital is a solid little grinder, not the prettiest by any means but bang for buck I'd say it's value is good. The two sticking points I had were that the doser on it has a cheap feel to it, the mechanism doesn't feel like it would take too well to someone abusing it (also the weight is relatively low so the grinder will sometimes move when whilst you're dosing) and that adjustment is not the easiest task, I ended up popping a welding clamp on the spline of the worm screw and turning it through that, a process that still illicited some discomfort when switching from cafetiere to espresso. The latter issue does have a silver lining though, it's incredibly fine adjustment means that you can really dial an espresso grind to a very small adjustment.

I upgraded to a Wega 2.6K which I believe is a rebranded Compak K6 (anyone feel free to correct me on this) and have had 9 months of un-relenting joy from it. It's a bulky old beast, the body stands taller than that of the Mazzer Super Jolly, but it chews through beans at a decent speed. It's not too loud, but it's certainly not quiet. Downsides; the only big one for me is that the static retention is quiet high, I measured it at about 5g, mostly due to it having a large throat from the burrs, but after taking the grind-to-fill cutout off access to the throat is easy and due to me always weighing my dose before grind as well as after I can clear the throat out with my Siphon's bamboo stirrer to get the last of it.

Hope this helps


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

My research continue unabated.

Ebay is proving to be unrewarding so far, I think it will be a new grinder and the Compak K3 touch doserless has caught my eye. It appears to have all the features that I want with adjustable dosing via a knob on the bottom of the machine (slightly awkward admittedly) or on demand grinding which would save fiddling with the dose adjustment, easy to clean out spout by the look of it with low ground retention, portafilter rest fitted unlike the equivelant Macap (a bit annoying that) and a good price albeit at one of the less favoured equipment retailers (£295 plus delivery) in black which of course goes with everything. I had been considering going down the doser route due to a wider choice and the fact that some manufacturers (Mazzer) charge a huge premium for doserless models, but this one may be a goer when funds are ready.

Don


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

It's one that I looked closely at. Eventual deciders against it were the location of the timer adjuster, and the number of reviews that referred to the amount of free play in the adjusting collar. If the supplier that you're contemplating is ME, then this also went against it!

On the other hand it does seem to nicely meet your "mazzer quality at a cheaper price" criteria. Looking back, the location of the timer adjuster may be a pain, but seeing as the timer adjust on the Mini-e needs a screwdriver, I think it's liveable with. And there are plenty of happy users out there. I'd have wanted to see one in the flesh before buying, to see if the adjustment collar is actually as agricultural-looking as it appears in some (non-catalogue) photos.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I will have to read up on the adjustment collar issue with the Compak and you are correct on the retailer whom I am reluctant to buy from again, having been bitten in the past as I have recounted on the forum. It is a pity that the Mazzer mini-e has such a price premium over the timer doser version for some relatively cheap to produce electronics and a funnel.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

DonRJ said:


> It is a pity that the Mazzer mini-e has such a price premium over the timer doser version for some relatively cheap to produce electronics and a funnel.


Too damned true! I'd have thought that the doser model was the more expensive to produce by far. I just don't understand the price differential, but it is also echoed by Macap in their doser vs doserless models. Only Iberital, with the MC2, and Compak, with the K3, seem to have got the pricing structure right.

I have real empathy with the quandry you are in - having been there myself recently - what to buy, who to buy it from, am I getting value for money, is this what I really want, and so on.

Ooops, another 2 inches of snow's fallen while I've been writing this!

EDIT: Just remembered, there are different burr sets in the Mini and Mini-e - the latter being larger - but the price difference is still astounding. It's the main reason it took me so long to justify buying one.

And yesterday, to top it all, She Who Must Be Obeyed re-organised the kitchen, and all my coffee gear has moved location. Counter-top to wall unit height no longer a problem, so I could have gone LARGE after all. Damn!


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

vintagecigarman said:


> Is the Francino a re-badged Compak? Looks very similar. I recall reading a comparative review of the Compak Vs the Mini Mazzer, and it came off quite well. I actually had trouble sourcing one in the UK, but then gave up because of its size.


Indeed it is.

Compaks may be big, but imo they're pretty damn good for the money. Especially considering how they did in regards with the k10 vs the robur in terms of taste.

Ok, so they'll never be as well built as a mazzer, but the k10 certainly has a fantastically even grind with no clumping whatsoever.

I'd have thought a mazzer super jolly used would be the most economical upgrade?


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

> Counter-top to wall unit height no longer a problem, so I could have gone LARGE after all. Damn!


Ah well, if only you had known what She Who Must Be Observed Carefully was planning, I am fortunate that the culinary zone is my playground due to food production duties. The espresso end has no cupboards above, so height is no problem with future equipment choices though I will have to avoid too wide an espresso machine when and if that time comes. An Izzo Alex will fit nicely though.

Back to grinders, I watched a used Mazzer SJ go for for around £300 on Ebay by the time fuel to collect was taken into account, sheesh.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

DonRJ said:


> Ah well, if only you had known what She Who Must Be Observed Carefully was planning, I am fortunate that the culinary zone is my playground due to food production duties. The espresso end has no cupboards above, so height is no problem with future equipment choices though I will have to avoid too wide an espresso machine when and if that time comes. An Izzo Alex will fit nicely though.
> 
> Back to grinders, I watched a used Mazzer SJ go for for around £300 on Ebay by the time fuel to collect was taken into account, sheesh.


There's a used one for £200 + £25 postage with 1 day to go currently.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

I've been looking on ebay for a Mazzer Mini for ages but they never seem to come up


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## Pan (Oct 20, 2010)

FWIW, I'm very, very happy with the Compak K3 Elite doser grinder I have.

Granted I have no other previous grinder experience to compare it with, but it's just so damn consistent and so easy to use and adjust.

After I changed beans from my very high roast (and very oily) beans to a lighter espresso roast bean, it's been simplicity itself for all the other non-coffee-geek members of the family to use. About 5 seconds grinding pulls enough through for a double shot, the doser ensures there are no clumps, and the grind retention appears to me to be very low.

No burning, no nasty bits, and we get cup after cup of beautifully consistent coffee.

If you want to take the doser off it's a few minutes work with a pozidriv screwdriver, a torx driver, and an allen key, and you're left with the same exit chute geometry as the K3 touch, albeit without the microswitch activated grind.. I know this as my doser came as a 'left-handed' model, and it took less than 10 minutes to turn it into a right handed model. The doser action is wonderfully smooth with a nice damped feel to it btw.

Peter


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Well blow me down sideways, just found the Wega version of the Compak K3 for £229 delivered, UK sourced and reputable dealer.

Update - it is the older 54mm burr version, oh well


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

> There's a used one for £200 + £25 postage with 1 day to go currently.


 - RP

I bet the price rockets in the last hour and even though the burrs have been replaced it describes as pretty high mileage.



> I've been looking on ebay for a Mazzer Mini for ages but they never seem to come up


 I know how you feel Sandy


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

DonRJ said:


> - RP
> 
> I bet the price rockets in the last hour and even though the burrs have been replaced it describes as pretty high mileage.


Mileage imho is largely irrelevant on mazzers tbh and I'm very surprised that there haven't been any SJ's around the £200 mark, there's normally quite a few.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mazzer-coffee-grinder-/120645171694?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1c170339ee looks like one


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Don, Peter's given a pretty good thumbs up for the K3 there.

I presume you have already seen this comparison - it looks good there, too.

http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/kb/reviews/mini-k3/


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Yes, read that one yesterday and I am now pretty much set on course for a K3 as first choice for a new grinder, pity that the Wega version I found was the old, discontinued one with smaller burrs, first alternative would be the Macap M4. If a second hand Mazzer tips up or perhaps one of the bigger Compaks on Ebay I may be tempted.

Edit - She has spoken regarding second hand purchases, when I saw a Super Jolly for £200 on a buy it now. NO, you can wait, its huge, how much will you have spent with fuel, new burrs etc before you were happy with it.

So re-read the K3 versus Mini review as linked above and have concluded that the K3 is the better grinder for me barring crappy grind setting scale (I would easily make my own)


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## Pan (Oct 20, 2010)

Don, I don't know if you spotted this one, but here's another review from Sweet Marias:

http://www.sweetmarias.com/compak_espressoK3/Compak_details_page.php


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Pan ----> Thanks for that, just adds weight to the quality of the Compak as a choice for me.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Well I have just bought a monster Mazzer, a few days ago I passed on a Super Jolly for £200 due to needing to keep some funds for a potentially expensive car service. As it happens the service was much more reasonable than expected, so, cash to burn and I have nailed a Mazzer Kony for £250, I think that should sort the grinder issue forever. All I have to do now is prepare SWMBO for the presence of a 2ft+ grinder in the kitchen.

Now all I need is to trawl the net for info on the brute.

PS Wooooo Hoooooo


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Well done! I've thoroughly enjoyed hearing about your search. (It was probably more fun for me than it was for you, at the time.) I'm sure that you'll be delighted with the monster. Hope your marriage survives it's size! ;>)))


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Size isn`t everything allegedly, nudge nudge etc. Fortunately i have four foot of headroom in the espresso zone for the monster


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I have had a further look at the spec of my purchase and there is a slight possibility that it is a Robur (height 720mm), time and the postal delivery system will tell, if so even more wooing and hooing will ensue (as long as the Bu**er works) and arrives intact.


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## Greenpotterer (Nov 29, 2009)

Good luck with it Don what next a Gp 3 to match???

Gaz


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Nah, an Izzo Alex for peanuts will do (fat chance) but one can always dream.


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Don well done on picking up a new grinder, don't forget to post pics. I have my eyes on a Mazzer Mini for next year. Why? Well, why not?!


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I have clearly gone completely over the top with this purchase but I thought why not, it will never be replaced with a "better" grinder and for £250 I have a grinder that when new retails for around £1500. Further checking has led me to conclude that it is either a Mazzer Royal or Robur, no way to tell until received and checked out and I honestly don`t know which is best one to have. The coffee nutters in the U.S. of A. seem to rave about big conical grinders like the Robur and Compak K10 as the biggest and bestest boys toys, I look forward to finding out for myself.

In standard form there is a paddle in the doser that acts as an auto cutoff when the doser is full but me being me, I have already got hold of a modification to alter this and improve the grind retention issue caused by this paddle. Sadie (SWMBO) is as yet unaware of the purchase, purely so I can enjoy the "you mad OCD coffee loonie" and "how big" comments when it arrives.

I will of course have a very nice Iberital MC2, just over one year old to sell on to someone on the forum for a very fair price in the near future.

Don


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

"It will never be replaced" - famous last words of many, but I suspect that you may be correct in this case!

...and they'll be queuing up to buy your MC2. I sold mine on another coffee forum (it was before I used this one so regularly)within minutes of putting it up for sale.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

What a great buy. I can imagine my wife's face if I had bought one - good luck!


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Here is the Ebay link to the brute.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140484728980&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT


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## Pan (Oct 20, 2010)

Nice one Don:good:

What a brilliant buy! Just goes to show that sometimes it's worth waiting


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## perelik (Dec 16, 2010)

DonRJ said:


> I have clearly gone completely over the top with this purchase but I thought why not, it will never be replaced with a "better" grinder and for £250 I have a grinder that when new retails for around £1500. Further checking has led me to conclude that it is either a Mazzer Royal or Robur, no way to tell until received and checked out and I honestly don`t know which is best one to have. The coffee nutters in the U.S. of A. seem to rave about big conical grinders like the Robur and Compak K10 as the biggest and bestest boys toys, I look forward to finding out for myself.
> 
> In standard form there is a paddle in the doser that acts as an auto cutoff when the doser is full but me being me, I have already got hold of a modification to alter this and improve the grind retention issue caused by this paddle. Sadie (SWMBO) is as yet unaware of the purchase, purely so I can enjoy the "you mad OCD coffee loonie" and "how big" comments when it arrives.
> 
> ...


Hi Don, I am a newby and noticed that you might be selling your MC2 grinder. I am looking to purchase a grinder but have a fairly tight budget so looking to buy used. From what I have read this is a really good grinder and I would certainly be interested in buying it, obviously depending on price. Look forward to hearing from you.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

perelik - I will be selling the MC2 in the new year through the forum so keep an eye out. Not attempting before then due to the Christmas postal madness.


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## perelik (Dec 16, 2010)

DonRJ said:


> perelik - I will be selling the MC2 in the new year through the forum so keep an eye out. Not attempting before then due to the Christmas postal madness.


Hi DonRJ, Thank you for your prompt reply I don't suppose there would be any chance of you sending me a pm when it is available so that I might have first refusal?

Thanks

P


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