# Ristretto, do you?



## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Hi all,

The topic on Shot size : Clicky me made me think about the ristretto. Are you guys ristretto fans? I k ow they were quite fashionable a few years ago but they don't seem to get a mention much these days.

I tend tend to forget about hem until I try a new bean. Sometimes the light bulb comes on and I think " wow, this would be an amazing ristretto!" I'm rather partial to a ristretto macciatto actually, this is usually my drink of choice if I've been making coffee all day.

Lee


----------



## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Absolutely a fan of ristretti, accompanied by a glass of iced water.

It's what Pavonis were made for! ;>)))


----------



## liquidmonkey2000 (Oct 4, 2010)

Again the definition of this is not at all straightforward. I would be interested to hear how people define ristretto as opposed to a short espresso? But yes I like a short intense espresso whatever it is called.


----------



## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Well with a short espresso you would still have a sensible extraction time keeping dosage, time, mls as your standard ratio. A ristretto is a restricted espresso. You are then just extracting the sweeter, chocolaty, massive bodied start of the extraction. Thupically there would be far more solods per Ml of water than a regular espresso as you are using the same dose but less water. You would have much less (if any) acidity as these elements have not had time to develop yet.

As for spec, as with any espresso it would differ with bean and you'd cut it off while the solids are still visible without even a hint of blonding. Using a normal double dose of say 18g you'd pull off around 20-25 Mls, but the grind size would be set as if you were making a normal espresso, so ristretto would take less time.

Hope that makes sense! Any better explanations welcomed!


----------



## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Sorry Lee, a bit confused. I always thought that ristretto was pulled in the same time as an espresso, therefore grinding much finer but using the same dosage / extraction time for a much smaller volume of liquid....???


----------



## liquidmonkey2000 (Oct 4, 2010)

@ Osh Ditto - but what constitutes ristretto is hotly debated. There are many definitions.


----------



## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Osh said:


> Sorry Lee, a bit confused. I always thought that ristretto was pulled in the same time as an espresso, therefore grinding much finer but using the same dosage / extraction time for a much smaller volume of liquid....???


That would be pretty burned wouldn't it? :/


----------



## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

liquidmonkey2000 said:


> @ Osh Ditto - but what constitutes ristretto is hotly debated. There are many definitions.


Ha Ha - Wikipedia has both! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ristretto


----------



## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Interesting, that.

I can imagine that the hand pulled ones gave totally different results.

Though I don't agree with the "firmer tamping" method. How much difference can there be between a hard tamp and an extra hard tamp? We all know that out of all the factors in an espresso, tamp has the least effect.

In fact I've read on another forum that it only really accounts for one or two seconds difference pull time in a shot.


----------



## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

liquidmonkey2000 said:


> @ Osh Ditto - but what constitutes ristretto is hotly debated. There are many definitions.


To quote from the article you linked in to the decaf beans thread, on the Universita del Caffe Degli USA course, this is what Illy says about ristretto:



> If you order a ristretto, short coffee, it should still take the same 30 seconds for the caffe to be done.


Surely the people who invented it are the most realiable source?


----------



## liquidmonkey2000 (Oct 4, 2010)

Osh - my thoughts in this matter are the same as yours. I always believed that a ristretto was made in basically the same way as an espresso but with a finer grind. Essentially forming part of a spectrum with ristretto at one end, lungo at the other and espresso sitting somewhere in the middle. The point at which a certain volume of coffee is called a ristretto or espresso is I believe largely subjective. If anyone has a more definitive definition I would be interested to hear it.

EDIT

You can of course attempt to define ristrettos, espresso, and lungos, (should that be ristretti, espressi, and lungi) more precisely but then you enter into extremely geeky territory, see http://www.home-barista.com/tips/brewing-ratios-for-espresso-beverages-t2402.html.

FURTHER EDIT

After reading the above post I should have probably used the term "nomale" where I have used espresso. Thus ristretto, normale and lungo are types of espresso of differing strength.


----------



## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

I'll have a play with the finer grind using the same time. I have always made it by cutting the espresso way short of the acid's etc. (for the last 10 years! ha ha) Oh dear. Just shows you never stop learning! :/ Maybe it's because of my commercial background? I'd love to hear from Glenn here to get his thoughts. (I'm more than happy to be in the minority here by the way, I'm not proud!)

Lee

P.S. Just off to sob quietly in the corner.


----------



## liquidmonkey2000 (Oct 4, 2010)

Being in the minority (if indeed you are) doesn't mean you are wrong. I don't think that there is necessarily a right and a wrong way, as the wikipedia article highlighted, or else all ways are incorrect unless you are pulling by hand.


----------



## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

LeeWardle said:


> I'll have a play with the finer grind using the same time. I have always made it by cutting the espresso way short of the acid's etc. (for the last 10 years! ha ha) Oh dear. Just shows you never stop learning! :/ Maybe it's because of my commercial background? I'd love to hear from Glenn here to get his thoughts. (I'm more than happy to be in the minority here by the way, I'm not proud!)
> 
> Lee
> 
> P.S. Just off to sob quietly in the corner.


Not to add salt to the wound, or knock a man when he's down, but this is from one post in liquidmonkey's link to the Home-Barista thread:



> > How about a 10 or 15 second shot? :wink: I don't believe that cutting a pour short makes a ristretto, regardless of the ratio.
> 
> 
> No matter what the brewing ratio, a 10 or 15 sec shot is not called a "ristretto," it's called "bad espresso."


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

My interpretation of a ristretto is an updosed shot, pulled (roughly*) at normal espresso times yielding a lower volume.

*I normally stop the shot a couple of seconds earlier

The dose/time varies for each coffee

18-21g in a double basket, extracted for 23 seconds usually yields a sweet shot for me and doesn't get to the blonding stage

There is no single right way in pull a ristretto

For (in my opinion) the best ristretto in London head to Taste of Bitter Love in Hackney on the weekend and ask Bill to pull a shot for you.


----------



## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

Making a ristretto at home (I really don't make any other kind, as it's what I love), I get the volume and concentration I want by adjusting the grind.

In a shop I normally see short pulls, which makes sense as I imagine they're reluctant to get a finer grind dialed in just for one customer, and then get the machine settled again for the next. But if the shop is offering, say, a choice between house espresso and a 'guest' espresso, then I'll ask which one they recommend for someone who likes a ristretto, as they normally will have the two coffees optimised differently with different grind sizes.


----------

