# Freshly Roasted Beans....



## sicknote (Sep 5, 2011)

When buying coffee from a roaster, what do you consider to be freshly roasted?

I bought what I thought would be freshly roasted beans yesterday but it turned out they were actually roasted 8 days before. For some reason I have it in my head that 3 days should be the maximum.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I must admit I prefer to receive them within just a few days of roasting. But if they're in a good quality bag rather than just a paper one, and haven't been opened at all, then I'd be happy with 8 days. It depends how the beans are when I use them. I have a bag of Rwanda Red Bourbon from Has Bean that was roasted 10 days ago and I haven't opened yet. I'm confident they will still be great based on how the other two bags of (different) beans I got on the same day have responded.

It raises another question... would you comtact the roaster if the beans were not as fresh as you'd expect?


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Packaged properly they should be fine. Freshness is a relative term. Since some coffees may take 6 days to reach their peak in flavour terms, a roaster may ship to account for that. If the beans were being consumed in a short space of time then they could still be classed as retaining that 'freshness'.

I would hazard a guess that the roaster in question would probably be more than happy to answer your question. It also depends on whether they roast to order or some other frequency. Some, I believe, roast batches on a weekly basis.


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## sicknote (Sep 5, 2011)

I actually bought from a coffee shop in person. They sell I think 5 different coffees, 4 were displayed with roasting dates from the day before and I just assumed the one I purchased would be the same. I never bothered asking or checking until I got home so I guess it's my own fault.......when writing that I started to think that perhaps the roasting date was the reason the coffee I bought wasn't out on display....lol.

Not that impressed with the coffee anyway and I dont think buying it a few days earlier would have made any difference.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Now if I was switched on (as well as up and running commercially) I would say, "I'm roasting some Mocha Java this afternoon, can I interest you in some fresh coffee?"









I will be roasting it this afternoon, but I am still honing my roasts and blends before I thrust it on the masses. Rest assured the knowledgeable and appreciative audience on this forum will hopefully be one of my first sources of feedback.


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## sicknote (Sep 5, 2011)

The whole roasting thing confuses me greatly.

Some roasters roast light, some roast dark and some roast to suit the bean (or do they all roast to suit the bean?). What happens then when two roasters roast the same bean with different roasting profiles? Has our buying then got anything to do with the actual coffee or is it down to liking the palette of the particular roaster? The next consideration is the brew method the bean was roasted for. If it was roasted for espresso and you prefer it as a pour over does that mean you might not like the roasters palette? Has luck got anything to do with it?......lol.

I have bought lightly roasted beans and often thought they required further roasting. On the other hand I have bought beans and thought they were over roasted. I once bought beans from the Algerian Coffee Store and thought they were remnants from a fire.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

If your roaster does not offer 'roasted to order' then up to a week is acceptable as many roasters roast in small batches and store to make up orders or may have beans left over from a wholesale order.

These days it is getting harder and harder to find a roaster who is not transparent - that's a good thing


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## Stevenp6 (May 17, 2011)

The freshness of the bean depends on the amount of oxidisation. That is how long it has been exposed to the air. If kept airtight in a container or vacuum pack then no problems keeping for a month or so. If not kept airtight then consume within a few days.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm have a problem using fresh roasted beans for espresso. I work for a coffee manufacturer so have access to beans roasted moments ago. I tried this morning to use beans roasted yesterday and packed in nitrogen flushed bags.

Having dialed in my grinder to the same coffee blend but not as fresh beans, I found using the same setting on these fresh beans produced an extremely acidic/sweet shot with huge quantities of crema.

I suspect the coffee is bulking up much than usual in the portabasket and causing issues with extraction.

Any experts out there who can confirm my suspicions and offer some advice?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

No expert but my views:

- fresh will be sweeter because non-fresh beans have oxidised oils on the surface, which is bitter.

- beans can be too fresh for espresso. Too much crema due to CO2. They need to outgas a little more. Give them a day or three and try again.

- acidity is usually a good thing.. but can be overpowering in espresso if the blend recipe hasn't been thought through properly. Or perhaps the beans are commercial grade rather than speciality, and you're just not enjoying them. There are other possible reasons for acidity too, eg your water mineral content. Or the roast itself.

I'd try again tomorrow and see if it improves.


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

From my point of view, it's easy to get caught into absolutes with freshness. One of the tastiest espressos I've had in the last few months was pulled less than 5 minutes after it was roasted - although I agree with Mike that a few days degassing is a good general rule









Depending on the beans and the roast, the amount of time suitable for degassing varies. The predominant gas that is being lost from the beans in degassing is CO2, which is soluble in water. This will make pulled shots somewhat more acidic, and also can give a slight "fizzyness". It can also slow down the extraction, so a slightly coarser grind would likely be appropriate.

These are all generalisations, but the fundamental approach to pulling a shot shouldn't be effected. Just be aware that the coffee will change a lot in how the shot pulls in the first few days post roast, so will probably require some big grind/dose adjustments from day to day.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

You are completely right in terms of making the grind coarser and definitely smaller dosing for fresh roasted but for the blend I had, using almost 150g trying to dial back in my grinder, I just couldn't get the flavour satisfactory.

Where I work we roast the beans (around 300kg at a time), leave them to stand for 30 minutes and then grind and package them. Taking a bag off the line and dashing it over to a nearby gaggia, that makes a fabulous shot so I'm wondering if you can overcome issues with super fresh beans by grinding them, leaving the grinds to stand then attempting to pull a shot.

Will definitely experiment with my now 3 day old beans.


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## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

sicknote said:


> When buying coffee from a roaster, what do you consider to be freshly roasted?
> 
> I bought what I thought would be freshly roasted beans yesterday but it turned out they were actually roasted 8 days before. For some reason I have it in my head that 3 days should be the maximum.


Gonna resurrect this older thread as I was just reading people's thoughts.

I'm in a similar situation. Thought I'd move away from HasBean and give another roaster a try so ordered some Dr strangelove and a 1kg bag of original espresso from extract coffee.

The first two bags of Dr Strangelove were roasted on wed but the large bag of Original was roasted over a week ago 7th Feb.

Now I'm sure the coffee is and will be fine but I'll be contacting them to complain as they make a point if stating that all coffee is roasted to order.... Which in this case it clearly wasn't.

Jason


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

As you say, the coffee will be fine, but I don't believe "roasting to order" is really viable these days. If you stock a variety of coffees, it would be difficult to knock out the odd 250g bag unless you had a regular batch to do and then it isn't really "to order". The only way I can see would be to wait until there were sufficient orders for the same coffee to roast a batch. My understanding is that the most common definition of "freshly roasted" is within 7 days (SCAA) but their's may be different, so worth asking.


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## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

CoffeeMagic said:


> As you say, the coffee will be fine, but I don't believe "roasting to order" is really viable these days. If you stock a variety of coffees, it would be difficult to knock out the odd 250g bag unless you had a regular batch to do and then it isn't really "to order". The only way I can see would be to wait until there were sufficient orders for the same coffee to roast a batch. My understanding is that the most common definition of "freshly roasted" is within 7 days (SCAA) but their's may be different, so worth asking.


But to me the customer don't promise what you can't deliver.

I'm not sure if this is unusual however but extract roast once a week and post orders out once a week, you have to order by Tuesday midnight and then as they say all orders are roasted and sent on the Wednesday to order.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Assuming the packets don't lie, HasBean always roast to order. Most of the time the bags arrive the day or second day after roasting. I do wonder how they manage that with some of the more 'niche' coffees that they offer.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

lookseehear said:


> Assuming the packets don't lie, HasBean always roast to order. Most of the time the bags arrive the day or second day after roasting. I do wonder how they manage that with some of the more 'niche' coffees that they offer.


They have rapid turn over, ive seen it in action myself.

check out http://www.roasterytour.com


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

pendragoncs said:


> But to me the customer don't promise what you can't deliver.
> 
> ...


I'm not defending them. Just putting a different viewpoint.

I have seen a true "roast to order" setup using a bank of Sonofrescos.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Does degassing occur only once a sealed bag is opened? Or is it continuously happening, only slowed down by a plastic/foil, sealed bag?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Continuous, and the valve bag doesn't really slow it... the degassing continues. The bag just helps prolong the beans' life by preventing the beans being attacked by oxygen, because the gas coming from the beans reputedly expells any oxygen from the bag, and the valve is one-way.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I have to agree with what a few have said before. For espresso, fresh beans are usually good but there is a moment, about a week after roasting, where there is a definite improvement in the balance of the shot. I would say that the acidity is always present but it is the body which improves and gives balance. However, I don't know if anyone else finds this, by I find the darker the roast the less the problem of balance when fresh, but also, there is no real improvement after a few days, just deterioration (maybe it's just me!).


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I often find acidity falling off after 2 weeks, and sometimes that's a good thing depending upon how acidy the beans were initially, so those particular beans are better in week 3.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

MikeHag said:


> I often find acidity falling off after 2 weeks, and sometimes that's a good thing depending upon how acidy the beans were initially, so those particular beans are better in week 3.


I like acidity in my coffee. I like lots of body balanced by acidity but that's a personal taste. As for 3 weeks, unfortunately, a coffee has to be quite bad to last me three weeks. I drink a minimum 1kilo in 3 weeks and would feel strange about ordering an extra 250g or half kilo and purposely letting it get 'old' (I know it'sw not that old but still!) It's always nice to see how a coffee develops over a couple of weeks though. The last Kalosi I got from Hasbean was definetely better into the second week as is the Bolivian Machacamarca which is really really good.


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## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

CoffeeMagic said:


> I'm not defending them. Just putting a different viewpoint.
> 
> I have seen a true "roast to order" setup using a bank of Sonofrescos.


I agree with you that if the roasters situation is that its not viable to roast to order then yes roast in batches and send it out, but this should be made clear for the customer to make an informed choice....its so easy to update sites these days its entirely possible that the roaster could list the last roast date so i know i'm ordering beans roasted on x date, or at least say the beans sent will have been roasted within y-days of dispatch.

I emailed them and have just had a response...

"...all espresso should be rested 6 to 8 days before use, where the single estates used for filter etc is fine to use the day after roasting. I realise this can be confusing , as it states roasted to order this is mostly applied to the single estates or espresso we have no stock of, espresso that is too fresh will have not degassed the C02 and cause extraction issues in your machine and not have a balanced palate. I am happy to talk you through this on Monday if you want to give me a call. The majority of our output is original espresso and is roasted every Monday and Tuesday for delivery the week after to our commercial customers throughout the country. although the bags are rated for 1 year we say use within 6 weeks hence the roasting cycle."

I can't be the only one on here that orders their new beans a week or so before they run out to allow for a rest/degas period. As it stands these beans won't be opened for another 4-5 days meaning they'll be 2wks+. I'm not happy with that so have asked for them to arrange a return and refund.


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## maxscan (May 12, 2012)

Hi

Just noticed the 'all espresso should be rested 6 to 8 days before use' - I've read conflicting things about this - some people saying 3 days, other people 6-8 or 8-10 - I have to say I find my coffee tasting a bit flat when over 8-10 days, even though I'm storing in vacuum containers, though I definitely get way to much crema before 3 days... is there any reason why an espresso blend would need longer than a single estate? (I tend to drink espresso blends)


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I personally rest for four days, longer if possible, but it's game for me at four days. I definitely notice it change, but it's nice to see how the flavours develop I think. Depends on the type I guess.

I had to resort to buying some beans from work today, I can't handle much more of the Bella Barista Italian roast, whilst it's nice if I'm in the mood, it's quite sharp and heavy. £2.99 250g of the usual Mocha Italia from 21 March. Not great, but could be much, much worse. (Beans from February, anyone?







) Edit: Take that back. I've become so accustomed to Arabica beans, this tastes like cack not matter how I set the grind. I can taste the Robusta, blurgh!

Has anyone ever tried beans the day after roast?


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## maxscan (May 12, 2012)

I have on occasion - I live just up the road from Astrora roasters in Teddington so depending on what day they've roasted I sometimes get them on the day or one day old. The main thing I notice is absolutely huge amounts of froth - perhaps 1 cm of crema off a single 9g shot! The grind doesn't really change (I'm using a hand grinder so I don't have fine adjustment but the pour time stays roughly the same) but the taste does - I'd describe it as more 'green' - would that be more acidic? I'm not really sure on the taste terminology yet so could be completely wrong there!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

My roaster made a good point the other day. He said that in blends, some of the bean varieties settle quicker than others. What that means in practice is that batches that are too fresh may have one of the bean varieties standing out above the others but in a way that you don't want. He went on to prove it by making a really crap espresso from beans he'd roasted the previous evening







)


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