# Reverse Osmosis - Osmio Zero review



## DavecUK

I have had the system over 2 weeks now and have completed my review. I do have a couple of areas I am still working on for some specifics re remineralisation and for sterilisation, but will publish those in a week or so. It's at least available for you guys to have a read and get a feel for the system. Some important things to keep in mind.


I asked to review the system, they didn't ask me and there is no written agreement stating I have to do a review, or do a positive one. I could have just used it and said yeah it's great I'll mention it on the forum some time.* They supplied a review unit at no cost to me.*
I don't get commission, use affiliate links and am not paid in any way by them BUT I recommend mentioning you're from the coffee forum, as I have tried to stress coffee people like us as a forgotten market for them. You might find them prepared to do a deal or throw some stuff in....just sayin. If you don't want to say you are from the forum fine...but at least try to get together with other members to benefit both of you for any deals going.
If you are not on a water meter you won't make the stated savings, of course if you use bottled water in any reasonable quantity you will make significant savings

If you have a similar workflow or setup to me, then you will most likely love the system, if you don't then just watch all the videos, read all the boring text carefully and see if it fits into your lifestyle. RO for me isn't a new thing, I've been banging on about it for 15 years now...but it was a surprisingly hard thing to review.

https;//coffeeequipmentreviews,wordpress,com/2019/01/06/osmio-zero/


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## Soll

Thanks Dave

This review has helped me so much and before this I was very close to having an under counter system but your thoughts has convinced me otherwise.


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## Aidy

Just for clarity, Dave - did they provide a review unit, or did you purchase one, and then review it? (Not judging in any way - it's just nice to have it stated).


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## Jony

He bought it, I think he mentioned it before in a reply on a thread.


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## DavecUK

Jony said:


> He bought it, I think he mentioned it before in a reply on a thread.


No I didn't buy it, I was going to but he said he would send one and it arrived the next day. Thought that was clear in the review, so perhaps I need to check and possibly clarify.

Just checked, perhaps saying I asked to review it wasn't enough and I need to make it clearer when I get back home.


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## Jony

Ah ok, Can't believe I got it wrong OMG shocker. Was more than likely me not reading probably my bad.


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## Snakehips

@DavecUK

Dave, thank you very much for this.

The first mention of the Osmio Zero, a couple of weeks ago, piqued my interest but I had questions that wanted answering. This review has provided those answers and more.

Over the past four or five years, our tap water, courtesy of Severn Trent, has been disappointing to say the least. Often times we get discoloration and visible sediment. The smell of chlorine and goodness knows what else, varies but is often unpleasantly strong. Other than coffee, we mainly drink water, often ambient but mainly hot. Our heated tap water tastes like TCP so, for 5 or 6 years we have exclusively used bottled water which at times is most certainly a PITA to fetch and carry.

Of late we have felt increasingly guilty every time we scrunch up an empty water bottle and put it in the 'recycle' bin.

So, we have just ordered an Osmio Zero and feel better already!

And yes we did talk to Osmio before we ordered.









Thank you once again.


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## DavecUK

Snakehips said:


> @DavecUK
> 
> Dave, thank very much for this.
> 
> The first mention of the Osmio Zero, a couple of weeks ago, piqued my interest but I had questions that wanted answering. This review has provided those answers and more.
> 
> Over the past four or five years, our tap water, courtesy of Severn Trent, has been disappointing to say the least. Often times we get discoloration and visible sediment. The smell of chlorine and goodness knows what else, varies but is often unpleasantly strong. Other than coffee, we mainly drink water, often ambient but mainly hot. Our heated tap water tastes like TCP so, for 5 or 6 years we have exclusively used bottled water which at times is most certainly a PITA to fetch and carry.
> 
> Of late we have felt increasingly guilty every time we scrunch up an empty water bottle and put it in the 'recycle' bin.
> 
> So, we have just ordered an Osmio Zero and feel better already!
> 
> And yes we did talk to Osmio before we ordered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you once again.


Did they give you a deal, I suggested they should think up something for the forum members?

Oh and from the sound of it, I think you will absolutely love the unit. Just remember I felt it was about 10-12 litres before all the new taste disappeared from it.


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## Snakehips

DavecUK said:


> Did they give you a deal, I suggested they should think up something for the forum members?
> 
> Oh and from the sound of it, I think you will absolutely love the unit. Just remember I felt it was about 10-12 litres before all the new taste disappeared from it.


Yes. The offer of a free Osmio Hydrogen Water Bottle or a set of filters. We went for the filters.


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## DavecUK

Snakehips said:


> Yes. The offer of a free Osmio Hydrogen Water Bottle or a set of filters. We went for the filters.


Definitely the best move. I should have mentioned it in the review but I was told when the maintenance light flashes you need to change filters and that there is no warning. you can reset it by switching power off at mains and on again, but it soon comes on again. The solution to have a set of filters in hand. I must actually order myself a couple of sets soon....I also realised we're quite heavy RO users. Already today the unit has been filled 3 times! That's 12 litres of RO already and I suspect we will fill it twice more before the evenings out. no wonder my water bills were so are high with the under counter unit and perhaps I will need a filter change sooner than I think.

The one surprise was how fast it is to filter, but then it can wash/flush the membrane loads , because it's simply recycling the water back, ah well you'll experience it for yourself tomorrow.


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## Snakehips

Yes, we have already determined that it will be good policy to have a set of filters to hand and to re-order as they are fitted.

I would be surprised if we exceed 4 litres per day so I reckon it will be spot on for our needs.

Does anybody want to buy a kettle?


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## the_partisan

Thanks for the detailed review. Some minor points:

You mention "Fortunately this can be easily fixed by adding 0.15 of sodium bicarbonate to every litre of water. When shopping for it in the supermarket don't buy baking soda, it's not the same thing." . Baking soda IS Sodium Bicarbonate, maybe you meant baking powder?

Further down it says "so an alternate water treatment plan for coffee machines could be 0.8g of Bicarb per litre and leave the remineralisation cartridge in. I'm still testing this area and will update soon.", I don't think you mean 0.8g/L but maybe 0.08g/L? 0.8g/L would be 500ppm akalinity. 80mg/L should be enough and is within the SCA guidelines (~50ppm)

Did you also get to measure the output TDS without any re-mineralization?


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## DavecUK

the_partisan said:


> Thanks for the detailed review. Some minor points:
> 
> You mention "Fortunately this can be easily fixed by adding 0.15 of sodium bicarbonate to every litre of water. When shopping for it in the supermarket don't buy baking soda, it's not the same thing." . Baking soda IS Sodium Bicarbonate, maybe you meant baking powder?
> 
> Further down it says "so an alternate water treatment plan for coffee machines could be 0.8g of Bicarb per litre and leave the remineralisation cartridge in. I'm still testing this area and will update soon.", I don't think you mean 0.8g/L but maybe 0.08g/L? 0.8g/L would be 500ppm akalinity. 80mg/L should be enough and is within the SCA guidelines (~50ppm)
> 
> Did you also get to measure the output TDS without any re-mineralization?


Will go through and amend errors, but yes you are correct.

I have not yet I will be removing the last filter tomorrow and checking, but it should be close to 0


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## pj.walczak

It is also worth to remember about this:

"We offer a 1 year warranty for customers in medium hard *up to 200 ppm Calcium Carbonate Hardness and TDS of 250 ppm*. For customers with harder or water with higher TDS, we do not recommend this product unless you are happy to make be more frequent membrane filter changes. The unit is designed to shut off if there is blockage in the membrane or prefilters. As the system recirculates the rejected water from the membrane, the TDS level continually rises of the water entering the membrane filter. Therefore, for those with water of higher TDS, more frequent membrane changes are required. "


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## DavecUK

pj.walczak said:


> It is also worth to remember about this:
> 
> "We offer a 1 year warranty for customers in medium hard *up to 200 ppm Calcium Carbonate Hardness and TDS of 250 ppm*. For customers with harder or water with higher TDS, we do not recommend this product unless you are happy to make be more frequent membrane filter changes. The unit is designed to shut off if there is blockage in the membrane or prefilters. As the system recirculates the rejected water from the membrane, the TDS level continually rises of the water entering the membrane filter. Therefore, for those with water of higher TDS, more frequent membrane changes are required. "
> 
> So if you leave in London, you probably have to look for other options.


Nope, I don't think so, I think they are being over cautious and if you use RO of any kind they are all equally affected for water hardness. I think they were trying to be super careful to set expectations, but it's probably not setting the right impression. e.g. if an undercounter RO systemhas a cost that cost goes up the harder the water is, both in reject water and membrane life, with this system it's the same so nothing really changes relative to undercounter systems. Their big mistake was in scaring people off, rather than people just understanding it's more frequent changes. I think the warnings used to be along the lines of not recommending it.

It doesn't change the warranty, your still covered. In fact my water can be up to 300 ppm in summer sometimes and is around 250+ now. If I have to change my filters every 5 months I don't care. The other way around it is simply to change the water out with say 1.3 litres left instead of 1 litre.....then the membrane will last the 6 months...but i'd rather not muck about. The corollary is that if your water is softer than 200 ppm then your filters will last longer than 6 months......

The bottom line, if you live in London, then you definitely need to use RO, just change the filter a bit more often and they do have a twin membrane filter only option for those super dooper hard areas (e.g, east anglia etc..).... 2 membranes for £45, so you can always swap out just the membrane for £22.50, as it's only the membrane that's affected. The other filters don't much care about hardness....they time expire and go on chlorine etc..


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## pj.walczak

OK, so maybe in that case they should be more clear on the webpage, as for me, non-native speaker it looked like, for hard water they recommend the classic RO system that does not circulate water.

And yes I agree, in area with such hardness as London or Warsaw, where I live, something like this is a must.


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## DavecUK

pj.walczak said:


> OK, so maybe in that case they should be more clear on the webpage, as for me, non-native speaker it looked like, for hard water they recommend the classic RO system that does not circulate water.
> 
> And yes I agree, in area with such hardness as London or Warsaw, where I live, something like this is a must.


I have discussed this with them, so I understood their concerns, but I think they understood that perhaps they give the wrong impression. They didn't want people to have a unit, have to change the membrane more often than 6 months and complain or think the company had been dishonest. Really though the people in areas like yours need this type of system the most.


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## Nopapercup

Thanks for the review Dave. I've been looking for a solution for a while and I've thought about gravity filters like the Berkey and RO systems. The Osmio sounds like it could be the perfect solution. I personally drink around 3 litres of bottled water a day and I really want to find a clean alternative. What I can't work out from the Osmio is how long would it take to fill up 1 or 2 1.5 litre bottles?


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## PPapa

How about the taste, compared with bottled or jug filtered water, for light roast beans? I take not many home users have RO systems installed, so that might be their first experience with it.

I am not really interested since water in Glasgow is soft and does not produce any scale - just has a chlorine smell which I started to hate after starting to filter the water! BWT jug does the job for me.


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## pj.walczak

Did you use a direct RO system, similar to this: https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/water-filters/reverse-osmosis-water-filters/bmb-30-nova-pro.html

Different price range of course, but do you believe this is also good solution?


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## DavecUK

Nopapercup said:


> Thanks for the review Dave. I've been looking for a solution for a while and I've thought about gravity filters like the Berkey and RO systems. The Osmio sounds like it could be the perfect solution. I personally drink around 3 litres of bottled water a day and I really want to find a clean alternative. What I can't work out from the Osmio is how long would it take to fill up 1 or 2 1.5 litre bottles?


Working from memory it will fill up 1.2 ish litres sort of as fast as the little pump can pump it out of the internal tank, so 60-75 seconds or so. Then it will stop dispensing so the internal tank can refill, to refill completely takes around 4 or 5 minutes but you can draw smaller amounts before that...once the internal tank has filled a bit. In other words the internal tank has a high and a low water level probe.



pj.walczak said:


> Did you use a direct RO system, similar to this: https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/water-filters/reverse-osmosis-water-filters/bmb-30-nova-pro.html
> 
> Different price range of course, but do you believe this is also good solution?


It's *very* expensive and I would assume has the same waste water problems which cost me over £120 per year on a water meter. The filter changes look better than my old under counter unit, but so many of them and some look like a ballache to do. So unless your a real heavy user, I wouldn't have thought so. *You have to remember, I am focussed on a few key areas, coffee, tea and what the family like to drink. I'm lazy, I don't want hassles, too many filters, no installation, no worries if it leaks and the water at different temperatures. *

Before the Osmio, it was go to the water boiler and it's empty, go to the storage bottle and it's empty. Fill up storage bottle (takes minutes), fill up water boiler (15 minutes to heat up), come back later and make coffee. This doesn't happen now, it's press button, get boiling water. If it's not filled, remove tank, fill it from tap, fast and easy. Although I still got my hot water straight away. There is no race to the bottom to not fill the thing up because it's easy to do, no long waits for hot water. It's really hard to explain the dynamics in a family. It's the same thing as kitchen bin syndrome...no one wants to be the last to fill it up...because they have to empty it, so it ends up getting fuller and fuller...the adults version of Buckaroo.



PPapa said:


> How about the taste, compared with bottled or jug filtered water, for light roast beans? I take not many home users have RO systems installed, so that might be their first experience with it.
> 
> I am not really interested since water in Glasgow is soft and does not produce any scale - just has a chlorine smell which I started to hate after starting to filter the water! BWT jug does the job for me.


If it wasn't any good my wife wouldn't drink it...it was she who complained that she could still taste "chlorine" until about 8-10 litres had gone through. In reality it was the antibac preservatives compounds in the filters washing out because they were new. However, after day 2 it passed the wife test. My wife won't drink the tap water in our area and neither will I, tastes awful..

So for2 1.2 litre bottles around 7m 30 seconds in total including waiting time. Mainly because to keep the system small, it only has a small internal RO storage tank for RO water. Over the course of a day we use around 20 litres from the system but yes, getting a large amount all in one go does have a wait time.

High = stop producing RO water and flush membrane

Low = Start producing RO water and don't dispense/stop dispensing until the level rises a bit.

Hot water draw is identical for amount, but a little slower for speed as the flow rate is reduced with respect to temperature. So 95C water is dispensed at about 425cc per minute, or 2 mugs per minute.

This is why it's difficult to review, because so many questions it's difficult for me to anticipate...unlike an espresso machine, grinder or roaster.


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## iroko

Thanks for the review Dave, I will probably be ordering one soon.


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## RoA19

I'm presuming that filling the coffee machine water tank is simply done by drawing cold water from the Osmio into a jug & then filling coffee machine water tank from the jug? Looks very neat. I have my water (Waitrose Essentials) delivered as my nearest Waitrose is several miles away. Means that my garage often has a stack of 4-pack water bottles precariously balanced


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## DavecUK

RoA19 said:


> I'm presuming that filling the coffee machine water tank is simply done by drawing cold water from the Osmio into a jug & then filling coffee machine water tank from the jug? Looks very neat. I have my water (Waitrose Essentials) delivered as my nearest Waitrose is several miles away. Means that my garage often has a stack of 4-pack water bottles precariously balanced ��


Yes, I have a little 2ltr jug with a pipe on I use for filling the coffee machine (it's actually an automotive oil filler jug).

Keep your eyes out for new Videos on the video playlist, for internals of the system, a good trick for resetting the thermal cut-out on the HW boiler should you ever need it. On the review site some coffee nerd specific stuff and tests with the Osmio, plus a sterilisation vid and procedure. All of which I am in the process of doing. Unfortunately a contaminated fuelling incident with my wifes car has been occupying significant time (and money) over the last few days. Amazing how much it is costing just because of some bad fuel....lets hope I can claim back some of the cost from Tesco.

It would be nice to keep a sticky thread for new people to the site to check out as a water suggestion for machines, but also to share any knowledge/experience, especially in the years ahead should any repairs ever be needed. I will post and internal video soon and it's clear that it is a simple enough system inside.


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## RoA19

Thanks Dave. Always enjoy your videos & reviews, even though they end up costing me a fortune









So far, a Vesuvius, a Niche grinder and, soon no doubt, an Osmio. Can't blame you for the recent purchase of a set of second-hand Acaia Lunar scales however.

Good luck with your wife's car and stay well.


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## Rom

K



RoA19 said:


> Thanks Dave. Always enjoy your videos & reviews, even though they end up costing me a fortune
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far, a Vesuvius, a Niche grinder and, soon no doubt, an Osmio. Can't blame you for the recent purchase of a set of second-hand Acaia Lunar scales however.
> 
> Good luck with your wife's car and stay well.


hey, I work in Leamington so if you want to look into ordering two Osmio units and saving a few quid I might be in..


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## Snakehips

Rom said:


> K
> 
> hey, I work in Leamington so if you want to look into ordering two Osmio units and saving a few quid I might be in..


 @Rom

Don't forget that you can email / text / WhatsApp Osmio and let them know that you are a CFUK member and they will gift a set of 4 filters without the need for you to have a purchase buddy.

You would need to check with Osmio but I suspect that the gift and the double purchase deal are mutually exclusive so double purchase is not worth the effort.

My machine and free filters arrived today. Superbly packaged and a very neat bit of kit. I'm still doing the initial filter flush but it promises to be the business.


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## DavecUK

Snakehips said:


> @Rom
> 
> Don't forget that you can email / text / WhatsApp Osmio and let them know that you are a CFUK member and they will gift a set of 4 filters without the need for you to have a purchase buddy.
> 
> You would need to check with Osmio but I suspect that the gift and the double purchase deal are mutually exclusive so double purchase is not worth the effort.
> 
> My machine and free filters arrived today. Superbly packaged and a very neat bit of kit. I'm still doing the initial filter flush but it promises to be the business.


Did you go for matt Black or White?


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## Aidy

Snakehips said:


> @Rom
> 
> Don't forget that you can email / text / WhatsApp Osmio and let them know that you are a CFUK member and they will gift a set of 4 filters without the need for you to have a purchase buddy.
> 
> You would need to check with Osmio but I suspect that the gift and the double purchase deal are mutually exclusive so double purchase is not worth the effort.
> 
> My machine and free filters arrived today. Superbly packaged and a very neat bit of kit. I'm still doing the initial filter flush but it promises to be the business.


Given as the "refer a friend" offer on their website is a free set of filters each, the efficient thing to do would be to form a queue with each person referring the next. That way everyone gets two free sets of filters.


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## Snakehips

DavecUK said:


> Did you go for matt Black or White?


Black!


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## Snakehips

Aidy said:


> Given as the "refer a friend" offer on their website is a free set of filters each, the efficient thing to do would be to form a queue with each person referring the next. That way everyone gets two free sets of filters.


Unless of course, you happen to be first or last in the queue. It would surprise me if Osmio would allow you benefit from both ends of that offer but who knows.... other than Osmio of course.


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## Rom

Snakehips said:


> @Rom
> 
> Don't forget that you can email / text / WhatsApp Osmio and let them know that you are a CFUK member and they will gift a set of 4 filters without the need for you to have a purchase buddy.
> 
> You would need to check with Osmio but I suspect that the gift and the double purchase deal are mutually exclusive so double purchase is not worth the effort.
> 
> My machine and free filters arrived today. Superbly packaged and a very neat bit of kit. I'm still doing the initial filter flush but it promises to be the business.


 @Snakehips

i completely missed the fact that one can do this..

i will contact them shortly.

thanks


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## DavecUK

I did point out to Osmio that forum members would get together to get discounts, so it would be easier to simply give them a discount as a single purchaser if they were from the forum (any coffee forum really) and mentioned it. Obviously they can't do forum deals because they are not an advertiser. it also allows them to see how popular it is for the coffee market and perhaps we will see any improvements/product development over time with us in mind as well.


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## Power Freak

This little machine has certainly piqued my interest. Does anybody have any details on the re-mineralization component? They say 10-20ppm Calcium/Magnesium is added through the mineral filter, does it add anything else such as buffer? I'd be really interested to see if anybody has titrated/paper tested to see what is going on in terms of GH:KH.

I'm currently using jug filters (zerowater+bwt) and by my reckoning the break-even point would be after 30 months assuming a full filter change every 3 months to account for the horrible scummy London water eating through the filters. Seems pretty reasonable.

(If we're requesting stuff I'd love a version without the water heating/boiling element - I have no desire to replace my temp control gooseneck kettle. Room temp is fine, a chilled option would be even better for drinking water)


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## DavecUK

Power Freak said:


> This little machine has certainly piqued my interest. Does anybody have any details on the re-mineralization component? They say 10-20ppm Calcium/Magnesium is added through the mineral filter, does it add anything else such as buffer? I'd be really interested to see if anybody has titrated/paper tested to see what is going on in terms of GH:KH.
> 
> I'm currently using jug filters (zerowater+bwt) and by my reckoning the break-even point would be after 30 months assuming a full filter change every 3 months to account for the horrible scummy London water eating through the filters. Seems pretty reasonable.
> 
> (If we're requesting stuff I'd love a version without the water heating/boiling element - I have no desire to replace my temp control gooseneck kettle. Room temp is fine, a chilled option would be even better for drinking water)


It imparts 30-60ppm depending on flow rate and whether the water is drawn in small amounts with standing in between. pH I have tested and it can drop to around 6.5 after many hours. The Caclium Mg acts as a buffer to prevent pH going to low, antibac and remineralisation for supposedly taste and marketing purposes. I am doing a mini review addition just for coffee nerds as I do the 48 hours pH testing schedule and remineralisation, remineralisation with bicarb and no remineralisation (blank cartridge) with bicarb. Ostensibly to get the right amount of bicarb to add in each case. This will go hand in hand with TDS readings. These tests I have scheduled for the weekend.

I will also be doing a sterilisation guide, but that's not so pressing as no one will need to sterilise for months/years. it will also be my take on sterility, rather than whatever marketing people might want to believe about RO systems.

My view at the moment with limited testing, is the remineralisation will probably be enough without bicarb. Descaling shouldn't be necessary at that level, if it is it might be a once every 6-10 year task. Remember always that a pH of 6.4 or 6.5 is no more acidic than milk....so not really going to harm your machine.

Oh theres no way you will need a full filter change every 3 months...that's excessive. Even if you find the Membrane blocks faster and you get the change filter lights, you would only need to change the membrane and they can be purchased in packs of 2 for 43 ish....so about £22 each

P.S. I expect @Snakehips is already using his and waiting for the "new machine" taste to disappear.


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## Power Freak

DavecUK said:


> It imparts 30-60ppm depending on flow rate and whether the water is drawn in small amounts with standing in between. pH I have tested and it can drop to around 6.5 after many hours. The Caclium Mg acts as a buffer to prevent pH going to low, antibac and remineralisation for supposedly taste and marketing purposes. I am doing a mini review addition just for coffee nerds as I do the 48 hours pH testing schedule and remineralisation, remineralisation with bicarb and no remineralisation (blank cartridge) with bicarb. Ostensibly to get the right amount of bicarb to add in each case. This will go hand in hand with TDS readings. These tests I have scheduled for the weekend.
> 
> I will also be doing a sterilisation guide, but that's not so pressing as no one will need to sterilise for months/years. it will also be my take on sterility, rather than whatever marketing people might want to believe about RO systems.
> 
> My view at the moment with limited testing, is the remineralisation will probably be enough without bicarb. Descaling shouldn't be necessary at that level, if it is it might be a once every 6-10 year task. Remember always that a pH of 6.4 or 6.5 is no more acidic than milk....so not really going to harm your machine.
> 
> Oh theres no way you will need a full filter change every 3 months...that's excessive. Even if you find the Membrane blocks faster and you get the change filter lights, you would only need to change the membrane and they can be purchased in packs of 2 for 43 ish....so about £22 each
> 
> P.S. I expect @Snakehips is already using his and waiting for the "new machine" taste to disappear.


Thanks, that's helpful. I will look forward to the coffee nerd review.

And the 3 month thing was me doing a "worst case" analysis (my job involves computing worst case scenarios so it's a force of habit), if it passes that test I can be pleasantly surprised at the real world run costs. With jug filters I get about half the manufacturer recommended life hence why I picked 3 months for the worst case test. (My best-estimate case came at about 18 months break even time)


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## Stanic

It's a neat unit indeed


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## Stanic

Please delete - double post


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## enrm6

Thank you for the review Dave, very informative and it seems like a really well executed unit. You spoke about sustainability issues in the review and how this ticked some boxes in that regard for you. Do the sellers offer any kind of take back scheme on the filters do you know, or did you discuss if they have any intentions to offer such? Even if the filter change is every 6 months I'm guessing they all have to go into the standard waste steam for landfill / incineration.


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## DavecUK

enrm6 said:


> Thank you for the review Dave, very informative and it seems like a really well executed unit. You spoke about sustainability issues in the review and how this ticked some boxes in that regard for you. Do the sellers offer any kind of take back scheme on the filters do you know, or did you discuss if they have any intentions to offer such? Even if the filter change is every 6 months I'm guessing they all have to go into the standard waste steam for landfill / incineration.


I don't believe the retailer does, but I checked my own community recycling centre and they take water filters (non specific), so I will take my spent cartridges there for recycling. If I find out they won't take it and want it in landfill waste, then it's still less than plastic bottles and saves 30000 litres of fresh water being wasted. So as long as it's better than before, it's good. i will update in 6 months time.


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## enrm6

If the council recycling schemes take the filters that's great. I'll check with my own. Thanks.


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## Jamesincity

Thank you as well Dave for the in depth review. I'm new to the forum but have been reading posts off and on for years.

So I bought one off the back of this review and it arrived yesterday! We live in London now and the water needs help for sure. Bottles are heavy and expensive and wasteful, Brita doesn't change TDS all that much and tap water is not tasty here. I've been looking for years for an effective solution and I think I've finally found it! BTW I received the extra filters from the referral of this forum.


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## Deeez Nuuutz

Really appreciate your time and effort, Dave, and the detailed review is very helpful indeed. I have a couple of questions too.

You say at worst, the RO Membrane filters will need changing only depending on water hardness in the owners area, the water hardness in my area according to the Thames Water website is 239ppm. Do we have an estimate for how frequent the Membrane changes would be given a certain level of hardness?

We have a soft water system in our house and use salt blocks. If I was to use the soft water would that be more beneficial than the hard water given the added salt content?

Also, how often would it be required for the Carbon filter to be replaced?

I'm also particularly looking forward to your findings in regards to using the remineralisation cartridge or not.

My main reason for a purchase is to use with my coffee machine. Currently I use Lockhills from Waitrose and this Osmio seems like a near perfect solution to reduce waste and help the environment. Not to mention the possible health benefits.


----------



## DavecUK

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Really appreciate your time and effort, Dave, and the detailed review is very helpful indeed. I have a couple of questions too.
> 
> 1. You say at worst, the RO Membrane filters will need changing only depending on water hardness in the owners area, the water hardness in my area according to the Thames Water website is 239ppm. Do we have an estimate for how frequent the Membrane changes would be given a certain level of hardness?
> 
> 2. We have a soft water system in our house and use salt blocks. If I was to use the soft water would that be more beneficial than the hard water given the added salt content?
> 
> 3. Also, how often would it be required for the Carbon filter to be replaced?
> 
> I'm also particularly looking forward to your findings in regards to using the remineralisation cartridge or not.
> 
> 4. My main reason for a purchase is to use with my coffee machine. Currently I use Lockhills from Waitrose and this Osmio seems like a near perfect solution to reduce waste and help the environment. Not to mention the possible health benefits.


1. Osmio recommends changing all the filters when the maintenance light comes on, but of course it's generic advice. They say about 6 monthly to change all the filters..again generic. They cannot know how much water you will pull from the system, which of course logically directly affects filter life. I am using around 20 litres of RO per day, perhaps at a very high usage my RO membrane will not last as long and I might have to change just that more often. Thos cost about 22 per RO membrane bought as packs of 2. Does this matter, not of course not the benefits scale proportionally to use as do the costs. It all nets out in the end. In a review I always have to be very careful to stick within manufacturers recommended usage, otherwise a review is invalid.

However this answer isn't a review, it's now my opinion after 15 years experience with RO systems. When you look at the filters, they will have a life stated. The sediment/crap filter 1 is the exception, but I would guess you would potentially get longer than 6 months, as long as you leave it in whilst sterilising. Fair to say it gets the initial exposure to untreated water.

Filter 2 the carbon, chlorine removal etc.. that states on it a 1 year life, but this is more a time expiry thing regardless of usage. Use it loads and it might be good for 6-7 months, perhaps longer, use it lightly and you will probably get a year.

Filter 3 is the membrane, this again is a standard style RO membrane inside that will normally filter for 2 years, but because of the recirculation of the Osmio has a much shorter life, that is monitored by flow rate and when it drops below a predetermined level, The Osmio Zero says time to replace. And it is, because you don't want to put the pump under strain and long periods of runtime.

Filter 4 is remineralisation and will last directly proportional to the amount of water through it...so definitely 6 months but probably longer....as the TDS gradually drops away as the thing simple "wears out"

So if you were finding that for whatever reason your RO membranes needed changing every 3 months (just an example for easy math), then you would change the membrane only and at 6 months when it says maintenance again change all the filters. However, if you are a lighter user than me, you might opt just to change the membrane again...and at 9 months change them all. BUT You risk more system cleanliness issues, possibly a negative impact on filtration performance and if the chlorine pre filter needed changing, reducing membrane life. *So if I found the maintenance light was illuminating every 4 months. I would personally probably change just the membrane and stretch the all 4 filter changes to every 8 months...but that's me and if you do it, do it when it's out of warranty. However, I would NOT see the need to change all 4 filters more often than 6 months if the maintenance light came on after 3 months, just change the membrane and change the other 3 at the 6 month stage. *I know it's clear as mud, but if you stop and think hard, you will see why the answer has to be like this. My mate for example, had the free filter set, but also bought himself a membrane only 2 pack. *Honestly though if the maintenance reminder comes on at 6 months...just easier to change all 4 and know it's all good......*

I will probably do the same if I find performance starts to drop off early (don't know if it will) because I have high TDS, I might also pop in a new membrane for £22 My TDS is 230 in winter and close to 300 in summer. I soften my water so the outgoing TDS from the softener registers higher about 280, because of the conductivity difference with sodium carbonate.

*2. I also have a block salt Harveys softener and absolutely send the softened water to the Osmio, RO systems much prefer to work on softened water, you get better membrane life and performance for a given hardness.*

*
*

3. Covered above, it states 1 year on the filter, but how longs a bit of string, how much do you value a sterile system

4. Totally agree, although as far as health benefits, my view has to be tap water is totally safe to drink, unless there is some problem with it. Unfortunately I also *believe* if there is a problem, we will be the last to know and that certain compounds are perhaps not tested for, or have more effects than we know...it's a guess. I just feel happier drinking RO water from a clean system that I can sterilise easily when I feel the need.

Just looked up Lockhills it's £1.47 for 8 litres. Assuming you alone use about 2 litres per day that's almost £3 per week on water. So Counter-Top RO does make sense from a waste perspective, convenience and to be honest isn't too bad on the cost side..


----------



## Snakehips

DavecUK said:


> P.S. I expect @Snakehips is already using his and waiting for the "new machine" taste to disappear.


 @DavecUK Correct!

We did put three tanks through it before we tasted it. There was still a 'new' taste to it.

Yesterday, the taste was only really noticeable in the heated water but, it was sufficiently strong to make us wonder if it was going to be acceptable to us.

As of today, all is fine and the water appears to be tasteless at all temperatures.

I have not yet used it for the coffee machine as I have some bottled water to use up.


----------



## Power Freak

The Osmio Zero is now out of stock.

I still have about 1-2months work of my regular filters to use but am likely to take the plunge once those are depleted (assuming they're back in stock by then).


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

DavecUK said:


> 1. Osmio recommends changing all the filters when the maintenance light comes on, but of course it's generic advice. They say about 6 monthly to change all the filters..again generic. They cannot know how much water you will pull from the system, which of course logically directly affects filter life. I am using around 20 litres of RO per day, perhaps at a very high usage my RO membrane will not last as long and I might have to change just that more often. Thos cost about 22 per RO membrane bought as packs of 2. Does this matter, not of course not the benefits scale proportionally to use as do the costs. It all nets out in the end. In a review I always have to be very careful to stick within manufacturers recommended usage, otherwise a review is invalid.
> 
> However this answer isn't a review, it's now my opinion after 15 years experience with RO systems. When you look at the filters, they will have a life stated. The sediment/crap filter 1 is the exception, but I would guess you would potentially get longer than 6 months, as long as you leave it in whilst sterilising. Fair to say it gets the initial exposure to untreated water.
> 
> Filter 2 the carbon, chlorine removal etc.. that states on it a 1 year life, but this is more a time expiry thing regardless of usage. Use it loads and it might be good for 6-7 months, perhaps longer, use it lightly and you will probably get a year.
> 
> Filter 3 is the membrane, this again is a standard style RO membrane inside that will normally filter for 2 years, but because of the recirculation of the Osmio has a much shorter life, that is monitored by flow rate and when it drops below a predetermined level, The Osmio Zero says time to replace. And it is, because you don't want to put the pump under strain and long periods of runtime.
> 
> Filter 4 is remineralisation and will last directly proportional to the amount of water through it...so definitely 6 months but probably longer....as the TDS gradually drops away as the thing simple "wears out"
> 
> So if you were finding that for whatever reason your RO membranes needed changing every 3 months (just an example for easy math), then you would change the membrane only and at 6 months when it says maintenance again change all the filters. However, if you are a lighter user than me, you might opt just to change the membrane again...and at 9 months change them all. BUT You risk more system cleanliness issues, possibly a negative impact on filtration performance and if the chlorine pre filter needed changing, reducing membrane life. *So if I found the maintenance light was illuminating every 4 months. I would personally probably change just the membrane and stretch the all 4 filter changes to every 8 months...but that's me and if you do it, do it when it's out of warranty. However, I would NOT see the need to change all 4 filters more often than 6 months if the maintenance light came on after 3 months, just change the membrane and change the other 3 at the 6 month stage. *I know it's clear as mud, but if you stop and think hard, you will see why the answer has to be like this. My mate for example, had the free filter set, but also bought himself a membrane only 2 pack. *Honestly though if the maintenance reminder comes on at 6 months...just easier to change all 4 and know it's all good......*
> 
> I will probably do the same if I find performance starts to drop off early (don't know if it will) because I have high TDS, I might also pop in a new membrane for £22 My TDS is 230 in winter and close to 300 in summer. I soften my water so the outgoing TDS from the softener registers higher about 280, because of the conductivity difference with sodium carbonate.
> 
> *2. I also have a block salt Harveys softener and absolutely send the softened water to the Osmio, RO systems much prefer to work on softened water, you get better membrane life and performance for a given hardness.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> 3. Covered above, it states 1 year on the filter, but how longs a bit of string, how much do you value a sterile system
> 
> 4. Totally agree, although as far as health benefits, my view has to be tap water is totally safe to drink, unless there is some problem with it. Unfortunately I also *believe* if there is a problem, we will be the last to know and that certain compounds are perhaps not tested for, or have more effects than we know...it's a guess. I just feel happier drinking RO water from a clean system that I can sterilise easily when I feel the need.
> 
> Just looked up Lockhills it's £1.47 for 8 litres. Assuming you alone use about 2 litres per day that's almost £3 per week on water. So Counter-Top RO does make sense from a waste perspective, convenience and to be honest isn't too bad on the cost side..


Thanks for the reply, Dave. I'll be ordering one very soon. Well... as soon as they are back in stock.

I'm assuming people are just ordering by themselves and getting the extra filter pack (RO & Carbon) thrown in?


----------



## DavecUK

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Thanks for the reply, Dave. I'll be ordering one very soon. Well... as soon as they are back in stock.
> 
> I'm assuming people are just ordering by themselves and getting the extra filter pack (RO & Carbon) thrown in?


They show in stock on their website, is that an error and when you call they have no stock?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

DavecUK said:


> They show in stock on their website, is that an error and when you call they have no stock?


No I haven't called. I was going by Power Freak's comment above that they are out of stock.


----------



## DavecUK

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> No I haven't called. I was going by Power Freak's comment above that they are out of stock.


Well perhaps they are, my reviews must be powerful stuff and out less than 24 hours.







If true, then "bummer" and glad I got mine.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

DavecUK said:


> Well perhaps they are my reviews must be powerful stuff and out less than 24 hours.


I honestly don't doubt that, Dave! 

Probably a stupid question but I'm assuming the RO water is okay if just emptied into a water dispenser and kept for a number of days?

Depending on what you recommend regarding using the remineralisation filter vs adding more Sodium Bicarbonate when used specifically for coffee machines, it'll be easier for me to remove something like 5+ litres of RO water at a time and transfer it to my water dispenser for use with Flojet etc...

Also, where is the best place to buy Sodium Bicarbonate?


----------



## ZappyAd

Looks very nice. I couldn't find anything in the review so maybe it is assumed to be obviously the case but do you test the output to make sure it is doing what it says it is? Would it be exactly the same as any other RO system or are there variations in the performance i.e. 90% of XYZ is removed or 95% etc? (Apologies if I missed the reference to this part of the test in the review or on the thread.)


----------



## Power Freak

DavecUK said:


> They show in stock on their website, is that an error and when you call they have no stock?


On the website they show out of stock for me:

https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/osmio-zero-installation-reverse-osmosis-system.html

EDIT:

Appears they have 2 different listings, this one is in stock:

https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/zip-portable-reverse-osmosis-system.html

Is there actually a difference between the units I'm not seeing?


----------



## Jony

Well I have one in my basket, so he wont have ghost stock, they are are in stock. Yes one is stock ones not. Just email him


----------



## DavecUK

Power Freak said:


> On the website they show out of stock for me:
> 
> https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/osmio-zero-installation-reverse-osmosis-system.html
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Appears they have 2 different listings, this one is in stock:
> 
> https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/zip-portable-reverse-osmosis-system.html
> 
> Is there actually a difference between the units I'm not seeing?


*No they definitely have stock of the Ozmio Zero, you seem to have found a rogue url, I mentioned it to them and they are going to fix it. So ring up, get your free filters or whatever by mentioning your a forum member aqs others seem to have done..*



Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I honestly don't doubt that, Dave!
> 
> Probably a stupid question but I'm assuming the RO water is okay if just emptied into a water dispenser and kept for a number of days?
> 
> Depending on what you recommend regarding using the remineralisation filter vs adding more Sodium Bicarbonate when used specifically for coffee machines, it'll be easier for me to remove something like 5+ litres of RO water at a time and transfer it to my water dispenser for use with Flojet etc...
> 
> Also, where is the best place to buy Sodium Bicarbonate?


Sodium Bicarb from a supermarket....get supermarket own brand if you can. 1.50 worth will last you years.

Remember RO water has no chlorine in it any more, it's chlorine that stops drinking water going bad/making you ill, at the expense of the horrible taste. So RO water will never keep as long as chlorinated water. I would personally do around 2 or 3 litres at a time and transfer, so that you are replenishing the container more often, it also means you are using the Osmio more often without long pauses. for days and everything has a better chance of staying cleaner. So put 2 or 3 litres in the big container with flowjet and then add 1 litre or whatever per day to keep it topped up. Every 2 weeks let the flowjet tank run down, clean it and start again. *If you decide not to RO and used bottled water, follow the same procedure, its why they say drink within 3 days of opening on bottled water (or something like that)..*


----------



## DavecUK

ZappyAd said:


> Looks very nice. I couldn't find anything in the review so maybe it is assumed to be obviously the case but do you test the output to make sure it is doing what it says it is? Would it be exactly the same as any other RO system or are there variations in the performance i.e. 90% of XYZ is removed or 95% etc? (Apologies if I missed the reference to this part of the test in the review or on the thread.)


Yeah it's doing what it says, my 280 ppm reduced to 30-60 ppm depending on remineralisation and amount drawn. This weekend I will be doing a sterilisation run (to come up with the process) and running the system with a blank filter number 4 in (remineralisation), this will give the raw TDS reading from the membrane which should be less than 20 I would think and probably more like 5 ppm. Trust me on the fact that it's a good RO system, the thing to consider is, does it fit your workflow, lifestyle and need, if like me it does, then it's a no brainer. I said I loved it before and I still love it...marvellous unit and *finally,* a system my whole family can agree on!!!


----------



## Dylan

Very interesting. I had been eyeing up the Xiaomi RO system for quite a while but it requires importing and actually costs more than this unit - good to have a nice complete system easily available in the UK.


----------



## DavecUK

Dylan said:


> Very interesting. I had been eyeing up the Xiaomi RO system for quite a while but it requires importing and actually costs more than this unit - good to have a nice complete system easily available in the UK.


The one I saw also had a drain hose that was directed to the sink!

I was just looking back and this whole Osmio Zero journey started because I recommended the system to @MildredM and thought I ought to have a look at it as I was recommending it....


----------



## Dylan

DavecUK said:


> The one I saw also had a drain hose that was directed to the sink!
> 
> I was just looking back and this whole Osmio Zero journey started because I recommended the system to @MildredM and thought I ought to have a look at it as I was recommending it....


Yea, there are 3 versions now with varying ways of attaching themselves to your water supply. Not sure why they didn't just do this and have a tank.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> Remember RO water has no chlorine in it any more, it's chlorine that stops drinking water going bad/making you ill, at the expense of the horrible taste. So RO water will never keep as long as chlorinated water. [...] *its why they say drink within 3 days of opening on bottled water (or something like that)..*


This is interesting, and I never thought of that, which makes a lot of sense.

- A lot of us in this forum use bottled water, and buy 5 litre bottles to reduce waste. When I had my E61 machine, that used to last two weeks if I remember correctly. With the La Pavoni, it lasts 4 weeks. In both cases, far more than the 3 days recommended on the Tesco's Ashbeck bottle. Is this still an issue even if the water is heated inside our coffee machines, over 100C (116C approx inside the boiler of my La Pavoni at 0.85 bar), for over 10 minutes?

How often would you advice to refill the Osmio tank? For example, would it be advisable to keep the water in the Osmio tank for over 3 days or should it be emptied at least every other day? (I'm sorry if this was covered in the review and I have missed it)

Thank you.


----------



## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> This is interesting, and I never thought of that, which makes a lot of sense.
> 
> The
> 
> 1. - A lot of us in this forum use bottled water, and buy 5 litre bottles to reduce waste. When I had my E61 machine, that used to last two weeks if I remember correctly. With the La Pavoni, it lasts 4 weeks. In both cases, far more than the 3 days recommended on the Tesco's Ashbeck bottle. Is this still an issue even if the water is heated inside our coffee machines, over 100C (116C approx inside the boiler of my La Pavoni at 0.85 bar), for over 10 minutes?
> 
> 2. How often would you advice to refill the Osmio tank? For example, would it be advisable to keep the water in the Osmio tank for over 3 days or should it be emptied at least every other day? (I'm sorry if this was covered in the review and I have missed it)
> 
> Thank you.


1. I wouldn't be loving it personally, although the espresso machine makes it bacterially safe, it's just not nice. Considering how picky people are about bean freshness, taste, flat conical ..the general lack of machine and water tank cleanliness of too many, surprised me.

2. The water in the osmio tank has chlorine in it, even so I would hope people use a full tank every 2 days. Otherwise what are you drinking? Unless you're a camel you need 2 litres per day. Why wouldn't you drink that from the Osmio?

I tend to bang on about practical and often zero cost things we can do to make our coffee taste better. Clean machine, RO water etc I'm less excited about accessories, although simple things like airscape, group brushes, Grindestien type knock boxes etc.. make good sense as well.


----------



## Jony

Hi Dave, so should I put sodium back in for my coffee machine use. Because I only use it? And it's going to sit in the tanks and boiler for few days at a time.


----------



## DavecUK

Jony said:


> Hi Dave, so should I put sodium back in for my coffee machine use. Because I only use it? And it's going to sit in the tanks and boiler for few days at a time.


Bicarb is just for buffering acidity and to up the TDS a tad. A tiny tiny punch per litre is all.

You will find the Osmio gives you around 40 ppm calcium and magnesium, so you may not need any bicarb.


----------



## Jony

Cool thanks.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> 2. The water in the osmio tank has chlorine in it, even so I would hope people use a full tank every 2 days. Otherwise what are you drinking? Unless you're a camel you need 2 litres per day. Why wouldn't you drink that from the Osmio?


Not a camel, but a working horse .

Unfortunately I spend most of my time in the office, so I drink from their water supply and not my own. If my wife decides that she won't drink from the Osmio - and believe me, she is very strongly minded - then unless I come home and drink another 3 litres (presumably I use 1 litre in the morning which will be unlikely) the tank will not be emptied normally frequently enough.

And that's why I'm sitting on the fence, as I don't want to spend £300 for something that I'll be the only one using it.

We had a Britta Filter jug. She just drank from the tap as it's "fresher". I can't win


----------



## Jony

Average man should consume 3.7 litre a day.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not a camel, but a working horse .
> 
> Unfortunately I spend most of my time in the office, so I drink from their water supply and not my own. If my wife decides that she won't drink from the Osmio - and believe me, she is very strongly minded - then unless I come home and drink another 3 litres (presumably I use 1 litre in the morning which will be unlikely) the tank will not be emptied normally frequently enough.
> 
> And that's why I'm sitting on the fence, as I don't want to spend £300 for something that I'll be the only one using it.
> 
> We had a Britta Filter jug. She just drank from the tap as it's "fresher". I can't win


I can sympathise with this. My mrs is not into gadgets or tech and doesn't really like change and thinks everything other than what you need is a waste of money lol Even if the Osmio produces good water that tastes good or even better than bottled water, she'll probably still say it tastes funny or she doesn't like it lol

This is one of the reasons I'm still mulling it over as I'm still trying to convince her 

My other dilemma is is how best to use it with my coffee machine... Do I use it with my existing Flojet and fill the water dispenser a few litres at a time, bearing in mind that I only get to make on average about 3 coffees per day so the RO water will be sitting in the water dispenser for a few days at best I think.

Ideally it'd be better if I could fill my internal reservoir direct from the Osmio, that way it would be used and replenished every couple of days and the Osmio would be used by myself, if no one else, frequently. Unfortunately, I only have about a 2cm gap above my machine under the cupboard, so it's not easy to say the least, to refill the reservoir.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

One day when she's in a good mood I will watch Dave's reviews video on the telly when she's around and hopefully she'll be convinced. One hopes


----------



## DavecUK

Felt furniture pads=slidey machine.


----------



## lhavelund

Very nice to see the review up and running! I have to admit, I was impressed with the ease of use and convenience of the machine. Also in the group of people that will need to convince the missus -- we go through an awful lot of bottled water (primarily sparkling) at the moment...


----------



## Snakehips

@DavecUK I will shortly start trying water from the Osmio in the Londinium R.

I had anticipated having to follow your suggestion of adding the pinch of bicarb but you now appear to be suggesting that it may not be necessary.

My concern is that the conductivity of the water must be sufficient to allow any level probes to function correctly. In this respect, I have read that tds below 50 is not advisable. Do you have a view on this?


----------



## DavecUK

Your level probe will work absolutely fine, guaranteed. The copper ions in the water from the boiler would see to that and the 30- 60 ppm from the Osmio will be enough as well.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

DavecUK said:


> Your level probe will work absolutely fine, guaranteed. The copper ions in the water from the boiler would see to that and the 30- 60 ppm from the Osmio will be enough as well.


When will you be testing this for the RO water used specifically for coffee machines, Dave? And when will you have a definitive answer for us on the exact amount of bicarb that will be needed, if any, and if it is best to be used with or without the remineralisation cartridge?

Thanks


----------



## DavecUK

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> When will you be testing this for the RO water used specifically for coffee machines, Dave? And when will you have a definitive answer for us on the exact amount of bicarb that will be needed, if any, and if it is best to be used with or without the remineralisation cartridge?
> 
> Thanks


1. level probes working, been tested over last 15 years and I have never had a machine where the level probe has not actually worked even with pure RO water (no bicarb) and have tested this multiple times., because as soon as it hits a copper boiler it's conductive enough. I have tested steel boiler machines as well purposely with no RO treatment and not had a problem. that's not to say there will never be a make of machine that is not sufficiently sensitive that it can't detect low water with low TDS?

2. The pH even of *non re-mineralised* systems can get as low as 6, not often any less, but even this level of pH is unlikely (I can't say won't) bother an espresso machine over the course of it's reasonable lifetime....

3. The addition of a small amount of Bicarb guarantees 1 and 2 can never be an issue. It might help, or not with taste. I've tried taste testing and I cannot tell any difference. The problem is I had to use two machines with steel boilers to do it (for obvious reasons). However as taste is aided by dissolved Ions e.g. salt then I figure bicarb will bring the TDS up, it can't do any harm and can only help with taste/extraction, if indeed it is an issue. On pure RO I add enough to bring the TDS to about 70 ish.

*The Osmio with it's mineral cartridge averages around 40-50 TDS and pH seems to stabilise at 6.5-6.7, so it's pretty good already. I'll have a better recommendation later today as I finish testing and the sterilisation procedure. *the main objective I always have is to add the minimum back for machine safety and to ensure a close to neutral pH. So much has been made about taste and mineral composition but no proper double blind structured tests have ever been performed to my knowledge and they would be very difficult to conduct. The things I know for a fact is, Tap water doesn't taste good and isn't helping the machine or the taste of the coffee. Less is more with water in my opinion. In this way you get the widest hit you can on coffee flavour...because otherwise you get into this coffee tastes best with this water and this with another water and this with more magnesium etc.. etc.. a ridiculous situation.

P.S. yes I have read all the "research" over the years and overall find it unsatisfying in helping people do what's best for machine, extraction and taste...but then I'm not trying to make money from fancy water systems.


----------



## fluffles

I'm guessing if you want a pan full of water for example to cook pasta, it's pretty slow to fill with boiling water?


----------



## DavecUK

fluffles said:


> I'm guessing if you want a pan full of water for example to cook pasta, it's pretty slow to fill with boiling water?


It depends how much water you want. 500ml would take around 1 minute.....just a rough estimate. When I used to eat pasta (long ago), if I was cooking a family sized amout, I would usually bring a saucepan to the boil. To be honest my interest in the Osmio Zero is focussed on drinking water and coffee.

Funnily enough though the other day the owner of Osmio was testing out his new phone camera and Gimbal and it just happened to be about pasta.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Warning on the video on the post above:

To any Italians or anyone of an Italian background (including myself): Contains distressing scenes.

Use the Osmio to fill in the pan. Bring the water to the boil. Add the pasta to the boiling water. And that's not plenty of water either. :-(


----------



## coffeechap

OMG total sacrilege, we will have to put an Italian block on the thread


----------



## Soll

I'm not of Italian descent (Cypriot actually) but still found that odd. Why didn't he add the pasta after filling the pan ?


----------



## Obnic

This looks like keen value compared with a Bestmax cartridge system in an area with >300ppm hardness.

@DavecUK can you use water that's already gone through a domestic water softener system? I'm imagining this should prolong the life of the membrane?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Obnic said:


> This looks like keen value compared with a Bestmax cartridge system in an area with >300ppm hardness.
> 
> @DavecUK can you use water that's already gone through a domestic water softener system? I'm imagining this should prolong the life of the membrane?


You can. The same question was answered a few posts above. 

See post 44


----------



## Obnic

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You can. The same question was answered a few posts above.
> 
> See post 44


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## DavecUK

Well I've done some initial tests and TDS of RO water is around 7-10% the figure for the incoming water, so in line with other types of RO systems. This means for calcium and Mg, the remineralisation filter is adding around 30-40 TDS more. *My judgment would be that the water will be "coffee machine safe".* Bicarb could be added, you you would only need the smallest amount. I will be testing that later to get the exact quantity, but at the moment my estimate would be around 0.07g per litre max. so about half what it says here...

http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/ro-wa...pper-corrosion

The main worry about acidity is based on a generalised lack of understanding about the pH scale which is logarithmic, misleading and easily misunderstood. I do have to try and clarify this. so a tiny tiny science lesson.

This is relative acidity with pH on the left (7 is neutral). Coffee is 5 and barely acidic in the scheme of things. Try and descale something with Coffee.










Next is the entire pH scale from 0 = very acidic to 14 = very alkaline, because it's logarithmic the relative acidity or alkalinity shown by the bars isn't very useful because it barely registers in the middle ranges.










Sop if we zoom in on the yellow bit we get this. Still not useful, because it's logarithimc, each pH change is 10x10x10x10 etc.. *Remember 5.5 and above is "barely acidic"*










So lets drill down again in the part with the yellow bit. Now we're looking at pH 7 to 6.5 only.










.


----------



## DavecUK

Because stupid captcha buggers up posts I had to continue on a separate post...if I try to edit the one above I just get a blank page.

In the last chart shows the relative acidity as we drill down even further, as you can see a pH of 6.6 is *nothing *compared to 6.5 which is hardly acidic at all and absoultely NOTHING compared to 6.6 which is 10 times more (and that's still nothing compared to 6.7 which is 10 times more than 6.6 and still hardly acidic.

*The message is good luck in trying to corrode your coffee machine with water having a pH of 6.5 and with remineralisation the Osmio sits happily at a pH of 6.5. So I don't think you will have a problem, if you want to add bicarb, go ahead but even with a copper boiler I believe unnecessary. If you have steel boilers and perhaps only copper thermosyphon pipes, simply don't bother...you'll never get an acidity problem.*



*
*Sorry about the science, but pH is a misunderstood scale(oh the pH of stomach acid is about 2-3...so off the charts in the scheme of things, even though it still wouldn't make a very good descaler!, look at lemon juice!


----------



## Soll

Appreciate your efforts in all this Dave and I will certainly pull the trigger and purchase one of the Osimo units.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

So basically stick with the remineralisation cartridge and don't worry about adding any bicarb. Sounds nice and simple to me (He says lol) which is what I like.

Thanks a lot Dave. Your efforts are greatly appreciated!!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I just checked Tesco's Ashbeck water and the PH is 6.2 at source, for comparison.


----------



## DavecUK

Soll said:


> Appreciate your efforts in all this Dave and I will certainly pull the trigger and purchase one of the Osimo units.


I'm glad because I have spent most of the day checking a sterilisation procedure I came up with....finding it wanting (I'll tell you guys when I got more time). Then coming up with something even easier, better and cleverer. I need to test it tomorrow of course (but I'm pretty sure it will work). So an interesting if not work filled day tomorrow and if that doesn't work I have other ideas up my sleeve...

I always test all my procedures, which is why I got bored of writing user guides and reviewing standard machines for BB, the user guides were never a cut and paste, every procedure was tested by me.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> I just checked Tesco's Ashbeck water and the PH is 6.2 at source, for comparison.


Yeah, don't drink Ashbeck it will burn yer insides out


----------



## Soll

I use ashbeck as it's affordable but the Osimo system ticks most of my boxes so will definitely be ordering one.


----------



## DavecUK

Blimey, I should have taken the offer of commission/referrals


----------



## Soll

DavecUK said:


> Blimey, I should have taken the offer of commission/referrals


You should of or at least keep the one your reviewing


----------



## Nikko

DavecUK said:


> Because stupid captcha buggers up posts I had to continue on a separate post...if I try to edit the one above I just get a blank page.
> 
> In the last chart shows the relative acidity as we drill down even further, as you can see a pH of 6.6 is *nothing *compared to 6.5 which is hardly acidic at all and absoultely NOTHING compared to 6.6 which is 10 times more (and that's still nothing compared to 6.7 which is 10 times more than 6.6 and still hardly acidic.
> 
> *The message is good luck in trying to corrode your coffee machine with water having a pH of 6.5 and with remineralisation the Osmio sits happily at a pH of 6.5. So I don't think you will have a problem, if you want to add bicarb, go ahead but even with a copper boiler I believe unnecessary. If you have steel boilers and perhaps only copper thermosyphon pipes, simply don't bother...you'll never get an acidity problem.*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *Sorry about the science, but pH is a misunderstood scale(oh the pH of stomach acid is about 2-3...so off the charts in the scheme of things, even though it still wouldn't make a very good descaler!, look at lemon juice!


What is the reference temperature for the quoted pH values. How does the pH vary with temperature? What is the pH at boiler temperatures? A meaningful analysis and recommendations need to take temperature into account.


----------



## iroko

Ordered mine today. The website is also showing a sanitisation kit now.


----------



## DavecUK

iroko said:


> Ordered mine today. The website is also showing a sanitisation kit now.


Excellent, yeah just saw it. It's a good kit for the clean freaks like me...I like to sanitise the systems I drink from, probably I worry too much. I am going to make a short video on how to use the kit (as I was largely responsible for it being developed). The 3rd filter little square one is a blank and handy if you don't want to remineralise at all and just want to add bicarb...but I've given my view on that already.

I don't know why Nikko is posting on here...but I have him on ignore and don't read his posts and won't reply to them, so he is wasting his time.


----------



## Ted_Kent

I pulled the trigger as well, I was due a cartridge change on my under sink filter anyway.

Two purchased with one for the house and one for the workshop. Picture of the one in the house, the workshop was only plastered yesterday so the other one will remain boxed for a bit yet.

Thanks to Dave for all the effort of looking at this kit and taking the time to inform us all of his findings.


----------



## DavecUK

Ted,

Curious, did you get one white and one black or both white?


----------



## Ted_Kent

One of each Dave


----------



## DavecUK

Ted_Kent said:


> One of each Dave


My mate got the white one and I thought it looked pretty good...I have the black.


----------



## Ted_Kent

The white is smart, ties in better with my kitchen and Niche. I'll have a look at the finish on the black tomorrow, I've seen the videos you've done and it looks nice.

It's a nice machine to use and sits in well around the other coffee related items. Slight adjustment of the workflow but it's a welcome addition to the setup.


----------



## mark8805

Sadly the Osmio Water RO unit I bought was defective, the kettles were not refilling, so contacted Mark Kent at Osmio Water, no questions asked after talking him through my problems, a new Unit was sent out to me, well waiting for it today, then they are sending a courier to my house to pick up the faulty one, said that they had had a few machines in one batch all with the same problem, also told me that once my faulty machine was back and running it would be donated to a local charity, now if that isn't fabulous Customer Service, don't know what is, congratulations Osmio Water.


----------



## DavecUK

I was asked about the membrane and TDS levels etc.. recently and I realised that I may well have oversimplified things. So for those that re interested. An RO membrane (this is a coarse generalisation using TDS, which has it's own issues) usually filters to around 4 -10% of the TDS of the incoming water, sometimes less sometimes more. TDS is a crude measurement, because many other things it filters are not measurable by a TDS meter, also much dry residue is not measurable. However we have what we have in home measurement tech.

Today My input water measures almost 300. So I would expect a reading around 15-25 ish. indeed I would get this as I did when testing, but I need to make the point that's after emptying the internal storage tank and refilling from a freshly filled supply pitcher. Even more important is to do that refill twice before measuring. e.g. do it once, empty the internal tank by running Osmio with the lid lifted, so it doesn't refill. Take the almost full supply pitcher out empty it all and refill it....then refill the RO internal tank a second time. If you don't do this you get the higher TDS water from the membrane affecting the results (this higher TDS water came from filtering down the pitcher to the minimum as would have happened with normal use. The process is to get all this out or it affects the results. If it was as simply as bunging a TDS meter on there, it would have been easy to measure, but to do it right takes some time. Same with pH and it's a 24hr test as I said earlier.

Then be aware that as you use water the membrane is still only from say 4-10% efficient, but perversely as the TDS rises in the pitcher, it's able to actually achieve a better rejection %. The water saving nature of the Osmio Zero (one big reason I have it), means it recycles the water in the pitcher filtering the bejeesus out of it and the TDS in the pitcher continues to rise, and rise and rise...which is why you throw the last bit away before refilling, otherwise membrane life would shorten a lot. If you measure TDS as you get near the end of the pitcher, it's higher, because the water being filtered might have a TDS of 1000 or more! Take 4 or 5% of that









So the water in the little RO storage tank will vary in TDS as it's always mixed with varying concentrations of TDS water from the membrane. You would probably actually get the lowest TDS measurement in normal usage at around the 3.5 litre mark on the supply pitcher (assuming you emptied and refilled completely each time) and importantly, unless you did the test properly as I did (stated earlier) you won't get the lowest TDS the system can provide. So in normal use as an average consider the TDS around 28 and the range from about 25-50 over time. Add in 20-40 from the remineralisation (my estimate, because that can vary on usage pattern) and we're probably running at an average TDS of 60, with a range between 48 - 80.

* I hope this helps you guys understand the system a little better and also why I think the water is fine as it is from the Osmio and certainly backed up by pH testing (using the remineralisation cartridge) which gave 6.6 after 24 hours without necessarily needing any bicarb treatment.*

Here is a photo of testing after 24 hours, using water from the Osmio near the top of it's cycle at around the 3.5 litre mark in the supply pitcher. The reason the TDS is lower there is my incoming water was around 270 TDS the day the sampling was done and the averages above are guestimates as your incoming TDS may be lower than mine.









So I guess I didn't want to burden anyone with excessive detail before and I have tried to keep it to a very simple explanation...just in case people think a quick drip and dip will give valid measurements of system performance...it won't. It will simply give a snapshot in time reflecting usage patterns. Fortunately for us, those results are good for drinking and good for machines.

P.S. Sure if you did a minimum clean TDS test for membrane performance with the 2 fill method and then left it might go to 6.5 or even perhaps 6.4...but as I explained that doesn't happen in normal use and wouldn't be a problem even if it did.

P.P.S. The TDS reading of the remaining water in my Pitcher just before a water change actually goes off the scale of my meter and is 1000+ , so important to empty it out before refilling.


----------



## iroko

Arrived today with extra set of filters, packed very well. I will set It up later. Thanks to Dave for bringing this neat unit to our attention.


----------



## webdoc

Problem with remineralization of a RO system is that it is not controlled, it goes all over the place when not used continuosly aka the water flow is constant.


----------



## Danm

Guys.

Apart from looking good and convenience - what is the benefit of this over a standard RO system which can be picked up very cheaply - tks


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Danm said:


> Guys.
> 
> Apart from looking good and convenience - what is the benefit of this over a standard RO system which can be picked up very cheaply - tks


Have you actually read the review by DavecUK at least?


----------



## Jony

^ yep have a read.


----------



## Danm

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Have you actually read the review by DavecUK at least?


Ashamedly I had not. I read the opening post last night.... got excited, went to the companies website - I missed Daves wiki review - now read









Very interesting product however not sure I would be able to justify it at that price point. The convenience is a huge plus, as is the on demand hot water.

However, the payback versus a more basic RO units is also up for debate. I kept marine fish and I have a 75gpd RODI unit that i estimated ran 1000 litres of water at 0TDS - from memory the unit was about £80 (plus £20 for some attachments) - my loss ratio was something like 1:5 - so 12,000 litre @ £3 a cubic meter

If i let the TDS get upto say 10, then sure it would have lasted much much longer. Now whether my RODI water would then need anything doing to it (remineralisation etc) I do not know - so control and consistency definitely a plus for the countertop unit

The waste was clearly 'a waste' but where possible I would use it in the garden etc.

.....I am a sucker for a toy tho' so who knows!


----------



## pj.walczak

Recently I found this water calculator from LaMa.

https://techcenter.lamarzocco.com/jsp/Template4/watercalculator.jsp

Here are some suggestion from them:

T.D.S. [ppm] - 90-150

Total hardness [ppm] - 70-100

pH - 6.5-8

Alkalinity [ppm] - 40-80


----------



## iroko

I've been using the osmio for 2 weeks now and I'm really happy with It, although It took about a week to get rid of the 'new' taste.

I now struggle to drink water round my parents, and when I've finished my bottle of osmio water at work and fill up with their water It's not very nice.

I haven't used the water for coffee yet as I still have a few packs of Volvic to get through. But my Tea taste better from the unit.

Yes It's expensive but happy that I bought one, I'm drinking a lot more water than I used to which must be a good thing.


----------



## DavecUK

iroko said:


> I've been using the osmio for 2 weeks now and I'm really happy with It, although It took about a week to get rid of the 'new' taste.
> 
> I now struggle to drink water round my parents, and when I've finished my bottle of osmio water at work and fill up with their water It's not very nice.
> 
> I haven't used the water for coffee yet as I still have a few packs of Volvic to get through. But my Tea taste better from the unit.
> 
> Yes It's expensive but happy that I bought one, I'm drinking a lot more water than I used to which must be a good thing.


It's potentially a drawback to going RO, you realise just how bad tap water tastes. Sure it's not cheap, but I love it for what it does, lack of water wasts and no need for a kettle. It's quietly taken it's place in our kitchen and I removed the hot water boiler 2 weeks ago....no one said a word!







.

I am planning a short article on the wordpress site, just for coffee people, summarising some of what's already been said on here and a video for sterilisation. I'm not 100% happy with the production values, but really can't be arsed to film it all again.


----------



## iroko

I've removed the kettle and Brita filter jug and It sits in the corner doing It's thing.


----------



## fluffles

I can imagine liking it for drinking and tea/coffee, but I couldn't live without a kettle for cooking, getting pan fulls of water boiling etc


----------



## SweetBob

Hi!

Maybe a strange question but is it hackable? asking as the ro membrane 50GPD could cost below 10GBP, the same story with a bag of brewing activated carbon. Did anyone try to open the filter "boxes" and check if there is any simple way to replace them with generic ones or refill?

What is inside the first filter installed at the bottom of the 5l tank? what about square remineralization filter, what is the lifespan of it?

I am new here and not so sure if this is the right place for me, I am a bit technical person and I'd love to take a little bit more out of everything around me when possible, thanks


----------



## DavecUK

SweetBob said:


> Hi!
> 
> Maybe a strange question but is it hackable? asking as the ro membrane 50GPD could cost below 10GBP, the same story with a bag of brewing activated carbon. Did anyone try to open the filter "boxes" and check if there is any simple way to replace them with generic ones or refill?
> 
> What is inside the first filter installed at the bottom of the 5l tank? what about square remineralization filter, what is the lifespan of it?
> 
> I am new here and not so sure if this is the right place for me, I am a bit technical person and I'd love to take a little bit more out of everything around me when possible, thanks


You should buy one and have a go at hacking it....let us all know what you are able to achieve.


----------



## SweetBob

DavecUK said:


> You should buy one and have a go at hacking it....let us all know what you are able to achieve.


Got it delivered yesterday, probably will wait to the time when I need to replace the filters so I can play with the old ones, I have asked here with the hope that someone checked it already


----------



## thesmileyone

Thank you for the review - and the transparency.

I have been thinking of converting the whole house to RO. Not quite sure of the expense of this though.

I have noticed that I clean the shower heads and just a week later half the ports don't "fire" water because they are clogged with black or white gunk. Not to mention kettles or coffee machines getting clogged with white gunk extremely quickly, though I use bottled water for the Gaggia but it doesn't seem to make any difference - I clean it with tap water, maybe that does it?

Either way gunk isn't fun.


----------



## gr4z

Thank you @DavecUK for the review and for everyone's useful comments in this thread.

I am very interested in this device for my new Lelit machine and to save wastage from plastic bottled water. According to Anglia Water my water is 240ppm/'hard' and I would look to use this for all Lelit coffees, general tea making and everyday water. I would expect around 5 litres of water every day for myself and my partner (and kids when they are not drinking coke!).

Can anyone advise yet (doubtful as many haven't had it for very long!) how often I would need to replace the filters? Obviously I am above the recommend 200ppm and 6 month cycle.

Many thanks


----------



## Jony

Maybe 12 month


----------



## PaulL

thesmileyone said:


> Thank you for the review - and the transparency.
> 
> I have been thinking of converting the whole house to RO. Not quite sure of the expense of this though.
> 
> I have noticed that I clean the shower heads and just a week later half the ports don't "fire" water because they are clogged with black or white gunk. Not to mention kettles or coffee machines getting clogged with white gunk extremely quickly, though I use bottled water for the Gaggia but it doesn't seem to make any difference - I clean it with tap water, maybe that does it?
> 
> Either way gunk isn't fun.


I put 3 things into my house for all round water improvement:

1. water softener on all except outside tap

2. RO (undercounter for 3 years and now replaced by Osmio)

3. Magnaclean into radiator/boiler circuit to pick up the iron deposits

Aimed at the balance of efficiency in house heating/coffee-machine reliability, expense and minimising waste water, cleaning products etc.


----------



## DavecUK

gr4z said:


> Thank you @DavecUK for the review and for everyone's useful comments in this thread.
> 
> I am very interested in this device for my new Lelit machine and to save wastage from plastic bottled water. According to Anglia Water my water is 240ppm/'hard' and I would look to use this for all Lelit coffees, general tea making and everyday water. I would expect around 5 litres of water every day for myself and my partner (and kids when they are not drinking coke!).
> 
> Can anyone advise yet (doubtful as many haven't had it for very long!) how often I would need to replace the filters? Obviously I am above the recommend 200ppm and 6 month cycle.
> 
> Many thanks


I would have thought you would get close to the 6 months, although I think your water may be harder than that at times...you can always check with a meter in the summer. However, even if it's sooner you can always buy the membrane double packs and change the membrane separately when it needs it saving the other filters for something more around the 6 -8 months mark. It all depends...5 litres per day isn't very much. my water is 280 ppm and softened and I use around 20 litres per day. 7 weeks in and it's still fine. So based on that, I have used about 1000 litres. Doing the math, it looks like you should get to the 6 month mark.


----------



## gr4z

DavecUK said:


> I would have thought you would get close to the 6 months, although I think your water may be harder than that at times...you can always check with a meter in the summer. However, even if it's sooner you can always buy the membrane double packs and change the membrane separately when it needs it saving the other filters for something more around the 6 -8 months mark. It all depends...5 litres per day isn't very much. my water is 280 ppm and softened and I use around 20 litres per day. 7 weeks in and it's still fine. So based on that, I have used about 1000 litres. Doing the math, it looks like you should get to the 6 month mark.


Ok thanks for the advice. According to the Anglia Water site the region next to mine is 350-390(!!) so I guess mine could waver. 5 litres is a total guess at present.


----------



## DavecUK

gr4z said:


> Ok thanks for the advice. According to the Anglia Water site the region next to mine is 350-390(!!) so I guess mine could waver. 5 litres is a total guess at present.


Yeah, that sounds more like it...East Anglia is to espresso machines like sending Cassandra O Brien into the Gobi desert without moisturiser.....neither will last long. If you have to change the filters ever 3 or 4 months, so be it, or have to change the membrane every 3 months and the other filters every 6 months. If you are in that area, you are probably on a water meter, so conventional RO would work out quite expensive as well with the reject rate..


----------



## gr4z

DavecUK said:


> Yeah, that sounds more like it...East Anglia is to espresso machines like sending Cassandra O Brien into the Gobi desert without moisturiser.....neither will last long. If you have to change the filters ever 3 or 4 months, so be it, or have to change the membrane every 3 months and the other filters every 6 months. If you are in that area, you are probably on a water meter, so conventional RO would work out quite expensive as well with the reject rate..


Thanks. How would you know when to change them independently? Guess work? An entry on a calendar? Taste?


----------



## DavecUK

gr4z said:


> Thanks. How would you know when to change them independently? Guess work? An entry on a calendar? Taste?


The Osmio Zero tells you via an indicator light for the membrane, for the others 6 monthly.


----------



## Power Freak

Now there are some of these "in the wild", has anybody measured the GH:KH or tried to titrate the water post re-mineralisation to see what's going on? (I'm aware this will vary based on supplied water and usage rate - just interested to see)

Those who previously used bottled water for coffee how do you feel the taste of coffee with the Osmio compares?


----------



## gr4z

While at BB picking up my Lelit today I was chatting to them about this system. They did not recommend it due to all the minerals being taken out, you need some in there.

I am beginner with all this pro stuff, but any response to that?

BTW BB were brilliant. I spent a good 90 mins chatting, having a demo, testing etc. Fantastic service!


----------



## DavecUK

I think you need to read the review I did very carefully. As I strongly recommend it if you don't want the hassle of under counter RO or using bottled water.


----------



## mark8805

gr4z said:


> While at BB picking up my Lelit today I was chatting to them about this system. They did not recommend it due to all the minerals being taken out, you need some in there.
> 
> I am beginner with all this pro stuff, but any response to that?
> 
> BTW BB were brilliant. I spent a good 90 mins chatting, having a demo, testing etc. Fantastic service!


If BB were resellers of this product they would probably be raving about it, sadly some of cannot put an under the counter system in, the Osmio is the perfect solution, just add some carbonates to get ph and TDS up, bobs your uncle.


----------



## DavecUK

mark8805 said:


> If BB were resellers of this product they would probably be raving about it, sadly some of cannot put an under the counter system in, the Osmio is the perfect solution, just add some carbonates to get ph and TDS up, bobs your uncle.


It works fine with the remineralisation filter and the recirculative water saving nature and Calcium/Magnesium remineralisation filter giving a higher TDS than is usual with RO systems. After that just add a touch of bicarb to get yourself to 60-90 or wherever you want to be. The pH of the water is not an issue with the Osmio.

http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/ro-water-copper-corrosion

The link above will give a guide on how to add the very small amounts of bicarb, for the Osmio I recommend 1 scoop per litre.

P.S. I am recommending this for the espresso machine users and coffee drinkers not retailers. I truly believe it to be a better solution for the majority compared to an under counter system and I make no money from recommending it I am not a retailer and don't use affiliate links or participate in affiliate marketing of any kind..


----------



## Jony

I haven't and won't add anything I think it's fine the way it is.


----------



## DavecUK

Jony said:


> I haven't and won't add anything I think it's fine the way it is.


Which is how I use it as well on my Vesuvius....


----------



## S-Presso

Snap!


----------



## Snakehips

Power Freak said:


> Now there are some of these "in the wild", has anybody measured the GH:KH or tried to titrate the water post re-mineralisation to see what's going on? (I'm aware this will vary based on supplied water and usage rate - just interested to see)
> 
> Those who previously used bottled water for coffee how do you feel the taste of coffee with the Osmio compares?


Our tap water is reasonably hard and generally smells and tastes as if it's come direct from the local swimming pool. The culprits, Severn Trent, suggest that the smell / taste can be improved by leaving water in the fridge but, we like to drink our water at ambient temperature or more often than not, hot. Despite the presence of one-way valves to isolate flexible tubings and, the use of an essentially all metal kettle, we still get a strong, unpleasant, TCP taste to our heated, untreated, tap water. Thus for many years we had been buying bottled water&#8230;.. and feeling guilty about the disposable plastics.

We have had our Osmio now for just over four weeks and I have to say that it suits us very nicely. Mrs S has commented, on more than one occasion, how she prefers it to a kettle, as do I.

There are just the two of us and we are consuming in the order of 5 litres per day so notionally, 5/6 fills in 4 days. There is a limit to how much you can draw from either of the two reservoirs at any one time. If you exhaust either resevoir then, you do have to wait a short while for a filtration cycle and reservoir refill to take place. However, at our level of use, we hardly experience that situation.

The filling is a doddle. We choose to discard the 1 litre concentrate then, replace the empty tank before filling it using a 2 litre jug.

It did take several tank-fulls, over the first two or three days, for the 'new' taste of the machine/ filters to disappear but thereafter, we have found the taste of the water to be consistently acceptable. The convenience of having virtually immediate dispense of drinking water at various temperatures is great. We tend not to drink much tea so I cannot pass too much comment with regards to it's suitability for a brewing a good cuppa. However, guests who have been made a tea bag cup say it is fine.

For two and a half weeks now, I have exclusively used Osmio filtered water in the L-R. That is with re-mineralisation provided by the standard post cartridge and, without any additional bi-carb. I have no idea as to the final composition of the water, other than the general indications given in @DavecUK 's review. I cannot claim to be decerning an improvement in the cup but, neither am I finding any negative impact. Thus far, in respect of taste and machine function........absolutely no negative issues whatsoever!


----------



## gr4z

I wonder if they will ever offer a machine that includes a chill option?

I know you could decant and store the water in the fridge but I doubt I would ever use the tepid temperature option so seems a waste to have it.


----------



## Power Freak

Snakehips said:


> For two and a half weeks now, I have exclusively used Osmio filtered water in the L-R. That is with re-mineralisation provided by the standard post cartridge and, without any additional bi-carb. I have no idea as to the final composition of the water, other than the general indications given in @DavecUK 's review. I cannot claim to be decerning an improvement in the cup but, neither am I finding any negative impact. Thus far, in respect of taste and machine function........absolutely no negative issues whatsoever!


Thanks! Out of interest which bottled water(s) were you using on the LR before?

I e-mailed Osmio about the remineralisation cartridge yesterday they re-affirmed you get 10-20ppm Mg+Ca from it (initially more from a new cartridge but settles down to that level) - I know other mineralisation cartridges that claim to introduce these sometimes just impart carbonates and other things due to low contact times. Suggests you'll get somewhere between 25-82 GH as CaCO3 which is fairly good; for me 40-60 tends to be the sweetspot.

Based on Dave's pH reading after 24 hours I'd guesstimate the KH to be somewhere around 25 if we assume the pH after 24 hours is at the equilibrium pH for the water. (Of course this depends on the source water, usage etc. etc.) So GH:KH could vary between approx 1:1 to 3:1 given what they say about the remineralisation stage.

Suggests the water coming out is in a fairly good place to me.

(Obviously these numbers shouldn't be taken as fact but as a general indicator of what's going on)


----------



## Snakehips

Power Freak said:


> Thanks! Out of interest which bottled water(s) were you using on the LR before?


@Power Freak Waitrose - Lockhills



Power Freak said:


> I e-mailed Osmio about the remineralisation cartridge yesterday they re-affirmed you get 10-20ppm Mg+Ca from it (initially more from a new cartridge but settles down to that level) - I know other mineralisation cartridges that claim to introduce these sometimes just impart carbonates and other things due to low contact times. Suggests you'll get somewhere between 25-82 GH as CaCO3 which is fairly good; for me 40-60 tends to be the sweetspot.
> 
> Based on Dave's pH reading after 24 hours I'd guesstimate the KH to be somewhere around 25 if we assume the pH after 24 hours is at the equilibrium pH for the water. (Of course this depends on the source water, usage etc. etc.) So GH:KH could vary between approx 1:1 to 3:1 given what they say about the remineralisation stage.
> 
> Suggests the water coming out is in a fairly good place to me.
> 
> (Obviously these numbers shouldn't be taken as fact but as a general indicator of what's going on)


I will take those numbers with a pinch of Bi-Carb.


----------



## Snakehips

I may be tempted to change the post filter more regularly, in order to maintain the slightly higher, yet still modest levels.


----------



## Power Freak

Snakehips said:


> I may be tempted to change the post filter more regularly, in order to maintain the slightly higher, yet still modest levels.


 @Snakehips I asked a follow up question to Osmio along the same lines regarding the longevity of the remineralisation filter. I'll let you know what I hear back


----------



## Snakehips

Power Freak said:


> @Snakehips I asked a follow up question to Osmio along the same lines regarding the longevity of the remineralisation filter. I'll let you know what I hear back


 @Power Freak Thank you. I will be interested to hear what they say.


----------



## webdoc

How do they control the reminalization? Otherwise is nonsense, the water wil always have inconsistent minerals.


----------



## Power Freak

webdoc said:


> How do they control the reminalization? Otherwise is nonsense, the water wil always have inconsistent minerals.


Lots of people use bottled water - that has "inconsistent minerals" too... Unless you're taking distilled water and dissolving the chemicals yourself you will always have inconsistencies.

The question is: do the inconsistencies mean the water lives in a reasonable range - indications suggest it is.


----------



## DavecUK

thesmileyone said:


> Thank you for the review - and the transparency.
> 
> I have been thinking of converting the whole house to RO. Not quite sure of the expense of this though.
> 
> I have noticed that I clean the shower heads and just a week later half the ports don't "fire" water because they are clogged with black or white gunk. Not to mention kettles or coffee machines getting clogged with white gunk extremely quickly, though I use bottled water for the Gaggia but it doesn't seem to make any difference - I clean it with tap water, maybe that does it?
> 
> Either way gunk isn't fun.


I would definitely not recommend whole house RO, very expensive, requires remineralisation and can rot copper pipes causing pinholes. The way water is in household copper pipes is not the same as espresso machine and often those pipes are a lot thinner in relation to their diameter (in fact can be just thinner even not considering diameter). I looked into this carefully 15 years ago and f you're looking for a whole solution.

1. RO system (for me preferably counter top)

2. Water softener (currently I use salt based Harvey twin tank)

RO systems love softened water, so a match made in heaven and the rest of the house is covered. There are new polyphosphate softeners now, small, mechanical, no salt, no water waste for regeneration. I am looking into those carefully re safety and of course RO system clogging or not. This is because they work by scale encapsulation, not sodium substitution on the carbonate molecules. In one respect, I can't know for sure unless I replace my Harveys salt softener with a polyphosphate unit and see if the Osmio filters last the same length of time, as our water usage is fairly constant. I am obviously not super keen to do that as the Harveys unit was replaced for a new one only a few years ago and still has 10+ years of life left in it or more.


----------



## Power Freak

Snakehips said:


> @Power Freak Thank you. I will be interested to hear what they say.


 @Snakehips

They say the life of the cartridge is 5000 Litres (as a guideline not a hard-fast rule). The post filter change higher mineral levels seem short lived so more frequent replacements probably won't be too effective. I did ask whether it's a slow deterioration or a "bang" when the filter depletes but they didn't say.

They say that the highest mineralisation will occur after the water has been sitting in the filter for a while (e.g. overnight) so it may be worth decanting the coffee water you want for the day when you wake up first thing before using the unit for anything else.

They also said the mineralisation level has been designed for a "balanced level of H2 created for electrolysis in the Hydrogen Water bottle" - if that means anything to you.

The numbers seem to come out OK if anything a little low, I haven't asked but I wonder if enough coffee folks buy the machine they'd be willing to commission some slightly beefed up cartridges that'd impart slightly more minerals and perhaps add some alkalinity.


----------



## DavecUK

Just add a touch of Bicarb


----------



## poolfan

DavecUK said:


> Just add a touch of Bicarb


Dave, any indication of how much a touch would be .e.g. for 1 litre of RO water?


----------



## DavecUK

poolfan said:


> Dave, any indication of how much a touch would be .e.g. for 1 litre of RO water?


http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/ro-water-copper-corrosion

For the Osmio, 1 scoop per litre will be enough I think. Or about 0.12 of a gram, working from memory.


----------



## Rob1

I'm a bit confused here. I have just started to remineralise some water to make a concentrate only to find a deposit on the bottom of the bottle that's taking its time to dissolve, so while I wait for that I thought I'd just add some Potassium bicarb to 3 litres of water and have my water ready to use that way.

Potassium bicarb isn't the same as sodium bicarb but the weights are close and the amount I'm thinking I should add is way different...

Adding sodium bicarb to distilled water at a concentration of 69.72mg a litre should produce water with a bicarbonate concentration of 50.64mg/l

HCO3 61g/Eq

so 50.64 / 61 = 0.83 Eq * 1000 = 830 mEq/L

so Alkalinity as CaCO3 (CaCO3 100mg / 2 = 50mg) So 0.83 * 50 = 41.5 mg/l Alkalinity as CaCO3

69.72mg = 0.06972g. You're adding 0.12g so 120mg/l!

87.1600688468/61 = 1.42885358765 Eq * 1000 = 1428.85358765 mEq/l

1.42885358765 * 50 = 71.44 mg/l Alkalinity as CaCO3


----------



## Power Freak

I decided to join the Osmio family... Black unit is on its way.


----------



## Jony

Welcome aboard.


----------



## mark8805

Power Freak said:


> I decided to join the Osmio family... Black unit is on its way.


Great decision, you will not regret your investment.


----------



## Soll

To all new owners of the Osimo zero

How are you finding it ? Is there a difference in the cup to your old water method?


----------



## arang

Thanks a lot for your review Dave. A black unit is on the way.

I was reading your Bianca review and saw Osmio.

Next will be getting the Bianca!


----------



## DavecUK

arang said:


> Thanks a lot for your review Dave. A black unit is on the way.
> 
> I was reading your Bianca review and saw Osmio.
> 
> Next will be getting the Bianca!


All good choices.


----------



## PaulL

Soll said:


> To all new owners of the Osimo zero
> 
> How are you finding it ? Is there a difference in the cup to your old water method?


Not that I notice in taste Soll (coming froim under-counter RO before). Whenever DC asks me how I am getting on with the Osmio my usual reply is "it's boring, as it should be". I use, fill, swirl a bit of water round the external tank each time I empty to refill and once a month give the external tank a Milton clean. I moved to it for hygiene and cleanliness combined with not having a difficult-to-clean system under mains pressure should something go wrong.


----------



## SweetBob

Do you do the milton cleaning with all the filters installed?


----------



## DavecUK

SweetBob said:


> Do you do the milton cleaning with all the filters installed?


No


----------



## dsc

Most likely will get one myself, excuse my blindness but I've not seen dealer names mentioned above, where do people buy them from? Saw them on Amazon yesterday for £399 which I think is the usual price.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

dsc said:


> Most likely will get one myself, excuse my blindness but I've not seen dealer names mentioned above, where do people buy them from? Saw them on Amazon yesterday for £399 which I think is the usual price.
> 
> T.


Get one direct from Osmio, mention the forum so you get the deal others have got. If you get from Amazon I don't think your going to get any deal and end up paying the same. I also believe one of the roasters who advertise on here (well known I think), can't remember the name were going to become a distributor and do forum deals for it. So theres 2 places where I get no commission for you to buy it from.


----------



## ashcroc

Dog & hat mentioned they're going to stock them.


----------



## DavecUK

As for the Milton cleaning I am fine tuning the procedure and have a Video, which for various reasons I'm not 100% happy with (probably because I am trying to keep it unedited apart from cuts and evidential) however I made a few balls ups, so edited those out. Realistically because it's to show how, I suppose that doesn't matter. Also I want to recheck the Milton fill amounts to prevent internal tank overflow. I have one opinion, Osmio have another (in fairness because of earlier feedback from me). So I am double checking mine, because I think I'm right and I want the process to be easy and super effective.

Trouble is I have been busy with a few other projects, so never got round to double checking my process. The Minima production review is proving irritating, although it does produce a great shot...sometimes I hate Gicar! I also had to do a little more testing on the Niche. Next week i shall get around to the RO unit again.

Aha, I think you're correct about Dog and Hat...good catch.


----------



## Power Freak

Received my unit today.

No coffee made with it yet but the drinking water is very tasty. I ran some tests on the water coming out: I get around 70 ppm GH and 35 ppm KH... You can't really ask for much more than that, pretty much bang on what you'd want for some tasty coffee water. The TDS meter is giving me 51 at 25C, pH meter is saying 6.5 (haven't left it settle though) - the KH suggests an approx equilibrium pH of 6.8.

(For full disclosure the water line is sitting around the 4L mark. I completely drained the unit, refilled, took a small glass out to drink and left the unit for about 2 hours before pulling my test sample... I'm expecting performance to fluctuate so will re-test a few times at different fill levels/waiting times to see what happens.)

Initial signs look very good for coffee taste without the need for any bicarb, etc.

EDIT: For even fuller disclosure my tap water is currently running 352 TDS out of the tap right now


----------



## dsc

I'm ordering one tomorrow, main question is how to convince my wife she wants a black unit...

T.


----------



## DavecUK

White looks very good as well, my mate has a white one.


----------



## dsc

The only thing I'm worried with a white one is the plastic going yellowish after some time.

T.


----------



## Jony

I think the White one looks better.


----------



## dsc

I must've missed the small print above somewhere but I was just told the unit has a limited life of 5 years. Cost wise this isn't a massive problem as it means it's £80 a year for good water, but I'm not crazy about binning an entire unit after a fairly short time...

T.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

dsc said:


> I must've missed the small print above somewhere but I was just told the unit has a limited life of 5 years. Cost wise this isn't a massive problem as it means it's £80 a year for good water, but I'm not crazy about binning an entire unit after a fairly short time...
> 
> T.


Plus the cost of the cartridges, roughly £100 per annum.


----------



## dsc

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Plus the cost of the cartridges, roughly £100 per annum.


+ cost of tap water and electricity.

But it's mostly the issue of chucking the machine in the bin after 5 years. Osmio said they will not take it back and the reason why it's 5 years is that their material testing only covers up to 5 years, so they cannot guarantee components / plastics for longer than 5 years. Two things to look for would be plastic degradation and internal corrosion. Not ideal for a machine which dispenses drinking water:/

T.


----------



## DavecUK

> + cost of tap water and electricity.
> 
> But it's mostly the issue of chucking the machine in the bin after 5 years. Osmio said they will not take it back and the reason why it's 5 years is that their material testing only covers up to 5 years, so they cannot guarantee components / plastics for longer than 5 years. Two things to look for would be plastic degradation and internal corrosion. Not ideal for a machine which dispenses drinking water:/
> 
> T.


I change my under counter units with storage tank every 3-4 years, always have and I would always change them after 5-6 years even if it was possible to sterilise them properly (which it isn't). I would do this because parts invariably fail or wear such as flush valves, pumps, connections, seals, taps, tanks etc..The pumped hot water boilers I also used to change every 5 years, usually because that's about how long they last, the little micropumps often fail and when they do everything else is also close to failure so it's not worth buying a new micro pump. I also like to think the water I am drinking is coming from something 5 years old or younger. e.g. I wouldn't use a plastic bottle for 5 years...

I would see the Osmio Zero as no different in this regard and am not surprised that replacement at reasonable intervals is advised by the manufacturers (Osmio). It's why in my review everything was mentioned in relation to 5 years costings...as naturally I would consider replacing at or around that time....perhaps if the unit was still working well and giving no problems I would go to 6 or 7 years...but certainly if it was 5 years and had a problem, I probably wouldn't bother trying to repair it. I think Osmio as a responsible retailer are being super cautious and stating that they have tested the unit for a 5 years life and are happy for that, not saying it won't last longer and they are not saying that it will become unsafe. Perhaps if more manufacturers were as honest about their products, then we wouldn't be so surprised.

I think it will be a shame if you decide it doesn't meet your needs because you will be missing out on a great little unit.

P.S. That's not to say that when I do change the unit out, I wouldn't strip it for any useful little spares for the next unit.


----------



## dsc

I've just had a discussion with Mark and he said he's happy to swap out parts after 5 years and he'll do so for free







that's enough to convince me to get a unit for myself.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

dsc said:


> I've just had a discussion with Mark and he said he's happy to swap out parts after 5 years and he'll do so for free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's enough to convince me to get a unit for myself.
> 
> T.


Mark is a quality guy...but then I try and only review stuff from companies with the right attitude. You made a good move, I think you will love the unit.


----------



## dsc

I've been playing around with a unit for the last few days and I have to ask all the other users, how's your boiling water setting working? On mine the first few seconds is around 80degC, then it ramps up to around 90degC and above, but at that stage you already have over 100ml of not-so-boiling water. Not sure if it's supposed to work like this or whether it's defective.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

It sort of has to work that way....if you need it red hot for tea, simply run the hot water for a few seconds (3 ish) then draw for tea. For coffee I find it more than hot enough. I don't get 100 ml before it's at 90 though, possibly 30-50 ml, but I have not measured.


----------



## dsc

It's an HX for heating right?

I can see the reasons why it's like this, but it's a faff at the end of the day, especially coupled with the slow flow. I typically just draw cold water and boil a kettle on an induction hob, much more efficient that way.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

It's a small ceramic heating box which contains some water (not an HX). The software is programmed thusly. Heat on, very short delay, micropump pump on, temperature feedback loop to vary speed of micropump so temperature is maintained.

It's efficient in that you boil the minimum amount of water for what you use. inefficiencies are in the fact that a water draw of room temp water immediately after boiling water will be hot for the first 30-40 ml. As I said, I have no problem for coffee, just place espresso cup under, select boiling and press...it's more than hot enough. For tea, run 20 or 30 ml out to warm cup, place teabag in cup, or tea in pot and then run water....this ensures subsequent water is very hot, because the boiler is preheated.

In fact I thought the hot water system was so good compared to thermococks, I was going to ask Mark if it was patented to Osmio only...because there might be an opportunity to use exactly that ceramic heater in one of the future ACS espresso machines on the drawing board....the Prima. I just need to remember to see if Mark will send me a ceramic heater to have a look at. I don't know if he will, but it's not a competing market, more complementary.


----------



## dsc

DavecUK said:


> It's a small ceramic heating box which contains some water (not an HX). The software is programmed thusly. Heat on, very short delay, micropump pump on, temperature feedback loop to vary speed of micropump so temperature is maintained.
> 
> It's efficient in that you boil the minimum amount of water for what you use. inefficiencies are in the fact that a water draw of room temp water immediately after boiling water will be hot for the first 30-40 ml. As I said, I have no problem for coffee, just place espresso cup under, select boiling and press...it's more than hot enough. For tea, run 20 or 30 ml out to warm cup, place teabag in cup, or tea in pot and then run water....this ensures subsequent water is very hot, because the boiler is preheated.
> 
> In fact I thought the hot water system was so good compared to thermococks, I was going to ask Mark if it was patented to Osmio only...because there might be an opportunity to use exactly that ceramic heater in one of the future ACS espresso machines on the drawing board....the Prima. I just need to remember to see if Mark will send me a ceramic heater to have a look at. I don't know if he will, but it's not a competing market, more complementary.


I guess it depends how you use it, I simply assumed that with a 100*C setting I'd get just that, 100*C water. Drawing 30-40ml or more to get sub 100*C is a faff imho, but I might just get used to it, time will tell. For now I'm focusing on the quality of the water and ignoring everything else, it made my pour overs way better, so I'm not complaining in that area.

Some of the early measurements I've done shown TDS of 60ppm and ph of 6.0, what's the bicarb additions suggested here to get TDS higher?

T.


----------



## DavecUK

0.12g bicarb

Unfortunately it's a technical impossibility to get water at 100C from anything, especially an instant boiler, the temperature in the spout is 95/96C, the hottest I've seen from an instant heater. I'm not talking about a Quooker type thing and I've not actually measured one, they are a bit to "twee?" for me, although I am going to guess that at least a few members on the forum will have them.


----------



## arang

Mine is up and running. Simple and convenient and producing great drinking water.


----------



## Jony

Great water isn't it.


----------



## DavecUK

So far pretty much 16-20 litres a day for 5 of us and my TDS is 280 ppm almost 3 months and no filter warnings yet. Our water does pass through a softener though and the calcium carbonate is replaced with sodium carbonate which although not forming limescale probably has a similar potential to clog the membrane. I am interested to see with my hardness level whether I get the 6 months from the membrane before the (taking too long to filter) maintenance light comes on. It doesn't "seem" to be taking any longer to filter, but I suppose that's not very scientific.

Trouble is once you go RO you can never go back to drinking tap water...it just tastes so bad in comparison and none of my family will drink it either.









Where you will really notice it is when you realise you are simply not getting machine problems any more and if you get a leak, there is not green and white crap around it. Even the bottled waters which are low in Ca and Mg still have a lot of dry residue...which of course RO doesn't have.


----------



## dsc

Apart from TDS and pH meters, what else are people using in terms of water checking kit? Drop kits for bicarb? If so which brand?

Straight out from the Zero the water is fine to drink, but I find it way too acidic in brews, so want to measure whatever there is to measure, tweak and try again.

Additional question on the unit itself, manual says to get rid of the last litre in the tank and refill fresh. Is there anything wrong with the last litre? I boiled it once and it turned cloudy for some reason which I'm assuming isn't harmful.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

It recirculates the water to keep getting RO water and minimise reject rate. So that last litre has 4 times the TDS of the water from the tap used to fill the tank. E.g if your tap water had a TDs of 250 the last litre will have a TDS of 1000.

If you just refill on top of it, then your starting with a TDS of 500 rising to 2000+ at the end! Remember an RO membrane has a % rejection rate.


----------



## dsc

Apart from high TDS there's nothing wrong with it right? I always empty the tank and fill with fresh water, but I was looking for ways to not bin that last litre, so if I can use it say for watering plants or boiling veg / pasta, I'll do that.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

dsc said:


> Apart from high TDS there's nothing wrong with it right? I always empty the tank and fill with fresh water, but I was looking for ways to not bin that last litre, so if I can use it say for watering plants or boiling veg / pasta, I'll do that.
> 
> T.


We use it for Pasta, veg, washing recycling...watering plants specifically houseplants, not so sure it might over a period of weeks become quite concentrated in the pot as it evaporates...garden plants or outdoor pot plants, no problem. I wouldn't drink it either as it would be well above the TDS recommendation for drinking water.

P.S. When i checked the ph I think it settled around 6.8 or 7, but if you want alkalinity a touch of bicarb will sort that.


----------



## Batian

Would this be OK for ericaceous plants but only if the source water is OK?

If not great grannys azalea that she was given for Christmas could be in for an early cremation.


----------



## Power Freak

dsc said:


> Apart from TDS and pH meters, what else are people using in terms of water checking kit? Drop kits for bicarb? If so which brand?


Drop kits can give you KH and GH readings. There's a bit of a knack to using them (you have to look for a colour change which can be quite subtle, a white sheet behind the test tube helps).

You can also get some that tell you Mg and Ca levels specifically. These tend to be harder to use as the precision isn't very high.

API are commonly used for KH GH kits, Red Sea make the best Mg Ca KH kit.


----------



## dsc

Power Freak said:


> Drop kits can give you KH and GH readings. There's a bit of a knack to using them (you have to look for a colour change which can be quite subtle, a white sheet behind the test tube helps).
> 
> You can also get some that tell you Mg and Ca levels specifically. These tend to be harder to use as the precision isn't very high.
> 
> API are commonly used for KH GH kits, Red Sea make the best Mg Ca KH kit.


So this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Aquarium-Water-1-Count/dp/B003SNCHMA/ref=asc_df_B003SNCHMA/?tag=cfukweb-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=255662186106&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6732212215642895029&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006681&hvtargid=pla-335404933084&psc=1

And this:

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=233136793963&category=77659&pm=1&ds=0&t=1555101268450

Should cover most things then?

T.


----------



## Power Freak

dsc said:


> So this:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Aquarium-Water-1-Count/dp/B003SNCHMA/ref=asc_df_B003SNCHMA/?tag=cfukweb-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=255662186106&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6732212215642895029&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006681&hvtargid=pla-335404933084&psc=1
> 
> And this:
> 
> http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=233136793963&category=77659&pm=1&ds=0&t=1555101268450
> 
> Should cover most things then?
> 
> T.


I'd just get the API one to begin with. The Red Sea does the same but splits GH into Mg and Ca - unless you're really interested in Mg to Ca ratio I'd stick to the API. The Red Sea is a bit more finnicky to use (you have to make up test solutions, in the API you just add drops direct to the water and shake) and the Mg kit is not very precise and takes a bit of getting used to if you want to get usable readings at the end.

As I understand it you're looking to work out how much bicarb to add, in which case the KH kit by itself should be enough. Test the osmio water and then add enough bicarb to get it to whatever level you want (for optimal flavour the recommendations seem to be about 30-50 mg/L as CaCO3 these days. For boiler corrosion a 50mg/L as CaCO3 will get you an equilibrium pH of about 7 which is optimal, 30 will get you 6.7 pH which is still not bad - at this level you won't get scaling)


----------



## dsc

I've checked a 250ml sample from the Zero today and it's 25ppm TDS and 6.7ph, so no wonder all coffees were super acidic. I've dissolved enough bicarb in a pot to get the TDS meter to read 150ppm and brewed with that - day and night difference, although I've lost too much of the acidity for my liking so will have to experiment with less bicarb.

Are people aiming to get 180ppm in their brewed water or is that way too high still?

T.


----------



## Power Freak

dsc said:


> I've checked a 250ml sample from the Zero today and it's 25ppm TDS and 6.7ph, so no wonder all coffees were super acidic. I've dissolved enough bicarb in a pot to get the TDS meter to read 150ppm and brewed with that - day and night difference, although I've lost too much of the acidity for my liking so will have to experiment with less bicarb.
> 
> Are people aiming to get 180ppm in their brewed water or is that way too high still?
> 
> T.


150 sounds way too high. I'd try somewhere around 40-80 absent of any other information.

Remember that RO water is pretty much free of chlorides/nitrates/etc. so aim to have a TDS lower than your bottled water of choice. (And keep in mind Gardelli recommend a bottled water with tds 50-150)


----------



## dsc

Power Freak said:


> 150 sounds way too high. I'd try somewhere around 40-80 absent of any other information.
> 
> Remember that RO water is pretty much free of chlorides/nitrates/etc. so aim to have a TDS lower than your bottled water of choice. (And keep in mind Gardelli recommend a bottled water with tds 50-150)


Tried 85ppm this morning, much better but still mutes too much acidity, so I'll give 40ppm a go.

Incredible how big of a difference this is, remarkable that such a small amount of bicarb has such a massive impact on taste.

T.


----------



## Bainbridge

Amazon are selling the white version for £308 at the moment. Big saving, but once you factor in the free filters from buying direct is it worth it?


----------



## DavecUK

I think so because a set of filters is about £42 ish, dunno for sure, it's worth running the numbers. Ensure any P&P is considered.


----------



## Bainbridge

It's including p&p so it is a good deal if you want a white one. Not a huge saving and it is amazon


----------



## DavecUK

The filters are cheaper from Osmio themselves, so it looks like amazon for the main unit and Osmio for the filters ATM.....there goes my commission







(joking of course)


----------



## Bainbridge

Down to £290 now.....


----------



## Rom

Bainbridge said:


> Down to £290 now.....


No sign of the black version on Amazon?

(Goes to look)


----------



## Nopapercup

Hows everyone finding these, any issues to report or are you all happy with them? Also is there a forum deal on them?


----------



## Jony

All is well. just free extra filters


----------



## Nopapercup

Jony said:


> All is well. just free extra filters


 Thanks, is there a code you need to put in?


----------



## Jony

No I just phoned them up.


----------



## dsc

For brewed, straight out the unit it's unusable at least for me, the resulting brew is super acidic. After adding bicarb things improve, but I still get better tasting brews from non Osmio water.

I still use it for drinking water, though still prefer some bottled water makes taste wise. How big of an impact input water has on RO?

T.


----------



## DavecUK

Nopapercup said:


> Thanks, is there a code you need to put in?


 As Jony said just phone them up and mention you are from the coffee forum...they should then do you a deal on filters. Just as an aside, my water is 280 to 300ppm and my filters are still going strong after 5 months, in another 3 weeks I will have reached the 6 month mark and will look to change them.


----------



## Jony

dsc said:


> For brewed, straight out the unit it's unusable at least for me, the resulting brew is super acidic. After adding bicarb things improve, but I still get better tasting brews from non Osmio water.
> 
> I still use it for drinking water, though still prefer some bottled water makes taste wise. How big of an impact input water has on RO?
> 
> T.


 I agree different coffee do change it, and sometimes I add bottled water either Ashbeck or Volvic


----------



## Nopapercup

For me it will be to replace bottled water as we get through a lot. We're in France so bottled water is cheap so I won't be getting my money back as quickly as I would in the UK but I would like to stop drinking out of plastic bottles.

I mainly make espresso with the very occasional Aeropress so presumably I just need to add a bit of bicarb before putting into the coffee machine?


----------



## dsc

I'm also trying to cut down on plastic waste, but there's a huge benefit in using bottled water, namely knowing what's actually in it. Adding bicarb to bump water tds is fine, but you still have no idea what's actually in it, which is not great when it comes to coffee imho.

Bicarb additions are tiny, but change things dramatically, there was some suggestions earlier in this thread I think, or the one on Peak Water.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

Perhaps, I do brewed and don't have a problem, although I don't use very light roasted coffees.


----------



## Nopapercup

dsc said:


> I'm also trying to cut down on plastic waste, but there's a huge benefit in using bottled water, namely knowing what's actually in it. Adding bicarb to bump water tds is fine, but you still have no idea what's actually in it, which is not great when it comes to coffee imho.
> 
> Bicarb additions are tiny, but change things dramatically, there was some suggestions earlier in this thread I think, or the one on Peak Water.
> 
> T.


 Hmm so do people who own these or other filters still use bottled water for their coffee machines then?


----------



## dsc

I guess it depends, I first assumed that it can be used for everything, but imho it doesn't work that well for coffee, so I'm still on bottle or just mix bottle and Osmio. Then again, there's people like Dave who don't see an issue, perhaps Dave's water is different / better and the output from the Osmio brews better coffee? No idea honestly.

T.


----------



## Nopapercup

dsc said:


> I guess it depends, I first assumed that it can be used for everything, but imho it doesn't work that well for coffee, so I'm still on bottle or just mix bottle and Osmio. Then again, there's people like Dave who don't see an issue, perhaps Dave's water is different / better and the output from the Osmio brews better coffee? No idea honestly.
> 
> T.


 Thanks for your opinion @dsc It would be good to hear how others are finding it or what they are doing with it especially for espresso based drinks?


----------



## Jony

Nopapercup said:


> Hmm so do people who own these or other filters still use bottled water for their coffee machines then?


 Nope not me. Only R.O goes in my machine.


----------



## Snakehips

Nopapercup said:


> Thanks for your opinion @dsc It would be good to hear how others are finding it or what they are doing with it especially for espresso based drinks?


 For us, the Osmio Zero has proved a great success.

Our electric kettle has spent the last 5 months sitting in a cupboard, unused.

FWIW... I happily use unaltered Osmio water in the LR


----------



## DavecUK

Only RO In my machines, for the last 15+ years. A strategy that has served me well and reduces machine faults to almost zero. I do treat the RO with bicarb if required. I would never use tap water and bottled water simply isn't practical or good for the environment.


----------



## pips

What's the ratio of bicarb if soda to water guys ?


----------



## Nopapercup

Great so putting the RO water straight into my machine should be fine?


----------



## DavecUK

Nopapercup said:


> Great so putting the RO water straight into my machine should be fine?


 Depends on machine and RO system. With steel boiler PTFE pipe machines, the Osmio Zero pH n TDS is such I don't bother treating it.


----------



## Nopapercup

DavecUK said:


> Depends on machine and RO system. With steel boiler PTFE pipe machines, the Osmio Zero pH n TDS is such I don't bother treating it.


 I use a Pavoni with copper element so I'm guessing it will go green.


----------



## DavecUK

Doubtful, my heating elements are copper in the Vesuvius but incolloy 800 in the Minima, V seems fine. You have to remember RO water is not usually as acidic as milk.


----------



## Nopapercup

Thanks Dave and excuse my ignorance, I know virtually nothing about RO. Before this came out I was looking at gravity filters but the filters need replacing on those every six months and are ridiculously expensive


----------



## DavecUK

It's a nice solution, not cheap but good things never are. If mine broke I would buy another in a heartbeat.


----------



## juwelkeeper

I have a Brita c300 filter, i live in Norfolk where the water is extremely hard , would putting the water through this first drastically improve the filter life.


----------



## DavecUK

juwelkeeper said:


> I have a Brita c300 filter, i live in Norfolk where the water is extremely hard , would putting the water through this first drastically improve the filter life.


 It depends, yes the Osmio filters would last longer....but if you have a whole house water softener, water from that would have the same effect. I assume living in Norfolk, you have a whole house salt or polyphosphate based water softener (twin tank or similar).

You might find the Osmio Zero Membrane and filters need changing more often than every 6 months in Norfolk. I have a whole house salt based softener and done almost 6 months and my water is 280-300ppm...but I think Norfolk is a bit harder, possibly 370+ So although the Osmio Zero would work, be prepared to change filters more often, possibly every 4 months. That said, the water will taste way better and not kill your coffee machine.

How effective the Brita inline cartridge is I really don't know, it's really hard to find proper tech specs for it....which should make you suspect something.

At the moment anything


----------



## juwelkeeper

The website just states

*Carbonate hardness reduction*
Filter medium reduces carbonate hardness to reduce limescale formation.

So not exactly helpful with no real figures to go by.

No i dont have a whole house water softener of any kind i just have the water plumbed straight to my machine via the Brita C300 filter


----------



## DavecUK

If I lived in Norfolk, I'd definitely get a whole house water softener for a start, then think about RO, but that's me. We have had a softener for more than 2O years in this house and our water is hard enough that I see the benefits and would never go back. Oh and RO systems do prefer softened water the filters seem to last longer.


----------



## juwelkeeper

DavecUK said:


> If I lived in Norfolk, I'd definitely get a whole house water softener for a start, then think about RO, but that's me. We have had a softener for more than 2O years in this house and our water is hard enough that I see the benefits and would never go back. Oh and RO systems do prefer softened water the filters seem to last longer.


 Can you recommend a good water softener for a whole hose ,and can you DIY a system or is it a professional install


----------



## DavecUK

I have a Harvey Twin Tank type, these don't require electric and are the simplest install. The electric ones use more water and salt and are harder to set up right, the install is slightly more involved. The twin tank always gives softened water no matter how much you use and even if the usage patterns are very inconsistent. For 1 person house or just 2 people an electric is cheaper.

If you are good with plumbing DIY is easy enough, but if not sure, a professional install will usually be provided at a fixed price from the supplier of the softener. Companies like this...but be careful of them all overcharging. The other option is to buy direct and use a local plumber.

https://watersoftenersnorfolk.co.uk/why-choose-us/

Just get a few quotes and as a guide price it's probably going to be around £1100 fitted. You also need to make sure the softener is bought from a supplier who realises it has to be set up right for your area (especially the Harvey twin tank type)!

There is a 3rd option and thats the food grade polyphosphate.

https://www.osmiowater.co.uk/acqua-brevetti-minidue-1-2-liquid-water-softener.html

It's much cheaper initially, takes up little space, easy to store and change the bags. £32 refill bag does around 44 cubic metres of water so that could be 15-22 weeks depending on your water usage. More expensive than salt e.g. the same amount of water would cost around £18-20 using salt although there would be more waste water. If I used polyphosphate, I would have 1 unsoftened tap for drinking water (just in case of the regs and reselling house etc..), but actually use polyphosphate softened in the Osmio countertop RO unit for drinking. I don't know whether polyphosphate extends the life of the Osmio Zero filters or not?

Polyphosphate is something I may consider if my Harveys ever goes tits up in the future and it's too expensive to repair....


----------



## juwelkeeper

Thanks DC :good: some reading to get stuck into .


----------



## DavecUK

Big subject lots of misinformation out there and of course this is the case whenever there is money to be made. However, once you get it right, it's far better than the hassle of living with really hard water.


----------



## ashcroc

Don't forget the cost can be offset by the ability to use less deturgent & the life of your washing machine & dishwasher will be greatly increased. It's a bit of an outlay initially, but will more than pay for itself in the long run.


----------



## juwelkeeper

Well ive looked into Polyphosphate IE Acqua Brevetti MiniDUE

The main advantages are cheaper to buy ,you can install it yourself, and easier to maintain with a simple bag swap of fluid and no humping big bags of salt around and having to store it, plus no need to have a separate drinking tap as there is no salt going into your water system. Plus takes up little room and they dont waste water as they dont need regenerating.

Disadvantage is because it does not actually soften your water , it only eliminates limescale and so you dont get the benefits of softened water IE water being softer on your skin .using less washing powder and soaps in general as these seem to lather up more with soft water. But not a huge game changer for me.

I have several fish tanks and softened water going the salt route could also be dangerous to my fish as the PH can fluctuate to much , where as Polyphosphate as far as i know does not effect PH . As for prolonging the life of osmio zero , this is the anwser i got from Osmio .

, it would make a difference to the membrane life but not the carbon block life. The first filter that would tend to block is the carbon filter. So when the 4 lights flash, it means the pressure has dropped and to get it working the best thing to do is change the carbon block first. Then if the production goes back to normal, then continue like that. If the lights come on again soon after, it means then you should just change the membrane. All the filters should be every 6 months. The Mindue is for temporary and not permanent hardness, so you will still get scale build up in the Suppl;y Pitcher of the Osmio Zero.


----------



## DavecUK

One of the issues with polyphosphate is above 65C I think scale can precipitate out.


----------



## iroko

Nopapercup said:


> Hows everyone finding these, any issues to report or are you all happy with them? Also is there a forum deal on them?


 Really happy with mine for drinking water, coffee or tea.


----------



## juwelkeeper

Got one coming tomorrow , looking forward to trying it out.


----------



## Jony

Keep us updated.


----------



## Nopapercup

I've just picked up an Osmio in white. I was holding off to see if they would do a deal at some point on Amazon. Then on eBay someone put one up for sale with a spare set of filters with a buy it now price of £100. As the filters cost £50 I only saw it as a £50 gamble. I haven't had a chance to plug it in yet but hopefully all will be working.


----------



## pips

Nopapercup said:


> I've just picked up an Osmio in white. I was holding off to see if they would do a deal at some point on Amazon. Then on eBay someone put one up for sale with a spare set of filters with a buy it now price of £100. As the filters cost £50 I only saw it as a £50 gamble. I haven't had a chance to plug it in yet but hopefully all will be working.


 I must be clearly missing something.

Fist someone picks up a minima for £300 and now this....Well done mate!!!


----------



## DavecUK

Nopapercup said:


> I've just picked up an Osmio in white. I was holding off to see if they would do a deal at some point on Amazon. Then on eBay someone put one up for sale with a spare set of filters with a buy it now price of £100. As the filters cost £50 I only saw it as a £50 gamble. I haven't had a chance to plug it in yet but hopefully all will be working.


 Bargain and I think their pretty robust so it should be fine. If not you can fix any problem cheaply enough.


----------



## PaulL

? absolute bargain - put a couple Milton tablets into the 5 litre water tank for 20 mins too (then discard and rinse of course) and you know the water going in is clean


----------



## Jony

I hate you, they went down low on Amazon £300 and I kept ebaying but nothing so I stopped searching, great find


----------



## DavecUK

Jony said:


> I hate you, they went down low on Amazon £300 and I kept ebaying but nothing so I stopped searching, great find


 i think the amazon thing was an automatic computer algorithm and probably not something Amazon actually desired to happen by design.


----------



## Nopapercup

PaulL said:


> ? absolute bargain - put a couple Milton tablets into the 5 litre water tank for 20 mins too (then discard and rinse of course) and you know the water going in is clean


 What are Milton tablets?

Thanks everyone, I jumped on it as soon as I saw it. Also worked out as it was collection only in London and I was going up for a few days anyways.

I was initially a little bit nervous on why he would be selling it but turns out he's American and just found out he has to move back.


----------



## ashcroc

Nopapercup said:


> What are Milton tablets?
> Thanks everyone, I jumped on it as soon as I saw it. Also worked out as it was collection only in London and I was going up for a few days anyways.
> I was initially a little bit nervous on why he would be selling it but turns out he's American and just found out he has to move back.


Milton are  sterilizing tablets marketed towards the baby making industry.


----------



## Nopapercup

ashcroc said:


> Milton are  sterilizing tablets marketed towards the baby making industry.


 I just googled them, I guess it's only those of us without kids who don't know what they are.


----------



## PaulL

Or - it's worth nowing baby products as they have their uses. What do you mean you don't have baby powder around, an old roadie trick for getting a tight tyre/inner-tube combination on a wheel rim, particular a turbo trainer tyre. ?

Actuallt re Milton, part of my checklist I have pinned inside a cupboard is a monthly Mil;ton clean of fridge water tank, -Vesuvius water tank and kitchen jug used to fill both of those in addition to cleaning the Osmio tank. For efficiency you use the same water each time rather than waste more.


----------



## Nopapercup

PaulL said:


> Or - it's worth nowing baby products as they have their uses. What do you mean you don't have baby powder around, an old roadie trick for getting a tight tyre/inner-tube combination on a wheel rim, particular a turbo trainer tyre. ?
> 
> Actuallt re Milton, part of my checklist I have pinned inside a cupboard is a monthly Mil;ton clean of fridge water tank, -Vesuvius water tank and kitchen jug used to fill both of those in addition to cleaning the Osmio tank. For efficiency you use the same water each time rather than waste more.


 So do you just throw them in the tank and not throw the water out after?


----------



## PaulL

I meant once you're done you transfer the milton water into the next item(s) you are also sterilising so you don't use more tablets than necessary but, sure, you discard the water afterwards and rinse the items. You get efficient at it though and I only rinse the sides and swirl. It's safe, I just don't want any residual taste.


----------



## Nopapercup

I've just set up the Osmio and it's not working properly. It did the initial filter, I then started emptying the tank but after 3 pushes if the button its gone back into the filtration mode and won't stop. I've reset it, emptied the tank and refilled it but no joy. Is the non stop filtration a sign that the filters need changing? The manual says all 4 lights should be flashing if filters need changing but I only have the cold water and filtration light on.


----------



## juwelkeeper

When i set mine up it filtered for ages and then eventually stopped , i cant remember exactly how long it filtered first time but seemed like it was over an hour or more.

How long has yours been going for


----------



## Nopapercup

juwelkeeper said:


> When i set mine up it filtered for ages and then eventually stopped , i cant remember exactly how long it filtered first time but seemed like it was over an hour or more.
> 
> How long has yours been going for


 Ok maybe I'm being a bit hasty, I turned the power off after 10-15 minutes. I'll try again and leave it for a while and see what happens


----------



## Nopapercup

It also hasn't been used for a month so maybe this hasn't helped


----------



## Nopapercup

I've turned it back on. It was filtering for roughly 25minutes then stopped so I started pressing the button to run water through it. After 3 pressing it the third time, water stopped coming out and it started filtering again which it is still doing 20 minutes later.

With the machine I have 2 new RO Membrane filters, 1 Composite filter, 1sediment filter and 1 insertion filter. This machine has been used in London and according to the previous owner the filters where changed about 6 months ago but I doubt it had a lot of use.

I don't have the Osmio Installation Sanitisation kit, is this something I need before changing filters? @DavecUK


----------



## iroko

When I first got mine It took a long time to go through the 1st filtration, everything has been fine since then. Mine is nearly six months old now and I'm using Essex water, similar to London.

I'm expecting to do a filter change soon and will probably buy the sanitisation kit before I do It. As you have the filters maybe just change them all and see If that helps.


----------



## Nopapercup

iroko said:


> When I first got mine It took a long time to go through the 1st filtration, everything has been fine since then. Mine is nearly six months old now and I'm using Essex water, similar to London.
> 
> I'm expecting to do a filter change soon and will probably buy the sanitisation kit before I do It. As you have the filters maybe just change them all and see If that helps.


 If anyone is thinking of buying one of these or anything else from Osmio their customer service is amazing! I phoned them yesterday and they said all should be fine with my machine, just to change the filters. I also ordered the sterilisation kit which arrived as promised today with free next day delivery. They have a Whattsapp number which I asked them how to drain the machine as I'm driving it to France this weekend and they came back to me within the hour with full instructions. Very impressive!


----------



## iroko

Just got my sanitisation kit and some spare filters in preperation for filter change.


----------



## Nopapercup

iroko said:


> Just got my sanitisation kit and some spare filters in preperation for filter change.
> 
> View attachment 31166


 I've had a nightmare with this. The instructions in the manual miss a vital step. After step 7 before removing the blanc filters you need to run at least 5litres through the machine to get rid of all the Milton solution. I followed the instructions and didn't do this, the new filters than got filled with the Milton solution and so far I've run over 20 litres through and it is still not completely gone.

Osmio said they would be amending the instructions.


----------



## iroko

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## iroko

Just gone over 6 months now so due a filter change, are other owners going to change at 6 months or wait till the maintenance light comes on.

I think the pure taste of the water has dropped off slightly.


----------



## Jony

iroko said:


> Just gone over 6 months now so due a filter change, are other owners going to change at 6 months or wait till the maintenance light comes on.
> 
> I think the pure taste of the water has dropped off slightly.


 Nope I had a email around a fortnight ago, I am going 12 month first time could even go longer haha, but maybe have to have clean up. Going to wait until the light comes on.


----------



## DavecUK

The membranes are actually good for 1 year, so you could just change the carbon block if the taste has dropped off...usually it's the carbon block that cruds up and slows the system down enough so the maintenance light comes on.

P.S. Just to clarify the RO filter says on the cannister good for 1 year, if it's not blocked so much it slows the system down forcing the maintenance light on and works after changing the carbon block, then stick with the membrane as long as you are happy to up to 1 year.


----------



## iroko

Thanks for replies, I'll leave alone for now and maybe just change the carbon filter at a later date.


----------



## Andrigo

Which is in your opinion the best RO option for home use and to make coffee? Osmio looks like a good option, I read somewhere, maybe from DaveC that there might be in the future cartridges specific for coffee. Is there any news? Does the standard cartridge do a good job anyway? Osmio does not offer a maintenance service in Italy, but they say they ship replacements parts and maintenance is not too complicated in case. I looked at other companies, but they don't want to disclose water composition after remineralizing filter.


----------



## DavecUK

Andrigo said:


> Which is in your opinion the best RO option for home use and to make coffee? Osmio looks like a good option, I read somewhere, maybe from DaveC that there might be in the future cartridges specific for coffee. Is there any news? Does the standard cartridge do a good job anyway? Osmio does not offer a maintenance service in Italy, but they say they ship replacements parts and maintenance is not too complicated in case. I looked at other companies, but they don't want to disclose water composition after remineralizing filter.


 No problems with the standard cartridges. Also as the rejection % is a standard value with an RO membrane, as the concentration of the water in the supply pitcher goes up, it all seems to average out at a reasonable enough TDS

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/01/06/osmio-zero/.

So far my unit has been in operation for 11 months on the original filters....my water has a TDS of almost 300 in summer and about 270 in winter.

For us it removed the need for a large electric 4 litre airport water boiler that most Chinese have in the kitchen (my wife is Chinese). We use it every day and fill it 4 times or more per day....which is about 12 litres+ for all of us in the house. I like it and enjoy the convenience..I was fortunate not to have to pay for mine....because I thought it looked perfect, asked for a discount as I wanted to test/review it and they sent it free. They (Mark who owns the company) also said I could write what I liked, good or bad he didn't care and didn't get sight of the review until it was public & posted..

If it went wrong, I would *buy* another in a heartbeat as we wouldn't want to be without it now.... I'm sure it's not for everyone and I can think of 4 or 5 people it definitely wouldn't suit...

If you wan't counter top, plug and go, no plumbing and a kettle replacement up and running in minutes.....then it's good. If you want under the counter, plumbed install and to run a kettle, then probably a tankless pumped RO system, with a high flow membrane is the way to go.

RO fortified with a touch of Bicarb has always made good coffee for me and keeps machines almost problem free, as most problems are water related (note I don't use the term *hard water*). So whatever you decide I recommend using some sort of RO system....or high quality water treatment system e.g. specialist cartridge systems. Not some magic jug that filters water.


----------



## Akb

Hi All,

I'm just about to order one of these. There is a promotion on at the moment, refer someone and get some free filters. I just need a name and a postcode, it doesn't say surname so first name is probably fine. Anyone in?


----------



## Jony

Not with one post NO!


----------



## DavecUK

Is there still an unused one in the for sale forum.... all he has to do is make 5 posts.....


----------



## Akb

DavecUK said:


> Is there still an unused one in the for sale forum.... all he has to do is make 5 posts.....


 Sorry I'm really new to this site, can you explain?

Im just trying to use a promotion offer and share it with some fellow coffee drinkers. If me only having one post isn't deemed as acceptable I kind of understand, but am a bit perplexed.


----------



## DavecUK

Akb said:


> Sorry I'm really new to this site, can you explain?
> 
> Im just trying to use a promotion offer and share it with some fellow coffee drinkers. If me only having one post isn't deemed as acceptable I kind of understand, but am a bit perplexed.


 I said nuthin, I don't care if you have half a post. Like I said there is a forum member who wants to sell an unused one....you want to buy one. Seems to make sense and you save money....although I can't remember what the other guy is asking for it. *The forum rules are to simply make 5 posts before you can access the for sale forum. I don't make the rules, I don't try and rationalise them....I just follow them. *Good luck...


----------



## Akb

DavecUK said:


> Oh right! Sorry I totally misread that. Thanks for clarifying. Totally agree you can't have anyone just jumping in and buying things, especially with how the web is, though to be honest I'd only buy new (warranty can be a useful thing).


----------



## MildredM

Akb said:


> Sorry I'm really new to this site, can you explain?
> 
> Im just trying to use a promotion offer and share it with some fellow coffee drinkers. If me only having one post isn't deemed as acceptable I kind of understand, but am a bit perplexed.


 There is one currently for sale in that section of the website that may be of interest. You need a few more posts before you can buy yet (5 or 10, I am not sure).

Welcome to the forum btw


----------



## 17845

After using a Britta jug for a couple of years, I swopped to Ashbeck when I bought my new Lelit, I got so fed up with the plastic waste I needed another solution.

After reading this and other threads on the Osmio RO system I decided to bite the bullet and buy one.

Forgot to mention I was a member, so sent an email to explain, next day machine and free filter pack arrived, so far, so good, had to get used to the taste, but has settled down nicely.

My only gripe, which has been mentioned before is the lack of an adjustable drip tray because the drop is to long and causes splash back,

I have partly sorted this with an upturned white flowerpot, until I find a better solution.

My TDS has gone from 240 ish down to 25 (this is the only meter I have).


----------



## Jony

It is great thing I am coming up to 12 month on last week of January i think it is really good.


----------



## DavecUK

I just hold my cup up near the spout...get hot water and an isometric workout like the Bullworker.

Remember the bullworker  I always wondered why, if it was so good, that astronauts on long space voyages didn't use them. A single bullworker on the Moon flight and those guys would have bounded out of the capsule. Bullworker Inc never answered my e-mails.










P.S. 14-16 litres per day out of our and it's still working fine on original filters. Will change them on the 5th, that's 1 year.


----------



## 17845

DavecUK said:


> I just hold my cup up near the spout...
> 
> P.S. 14-16 litres per day out of our and it's still working fine on original filters. Will change them on the 5th, that's 1 year.


 I'm a lazy bugger @DavecUK,

original filters?, impressive, all 4 ?

Never had a Bullworker, to scared of snagging my chest hair


----------



## DavecUK

hubcap said:


> I'm a lazy bugger @DavecUK,
> 
> original filters?, impressive, all 4 ?
> 
> Never had a Bullworker, to scared of snagging my chest hair


 Yes, have not changed any my water is 280pm + unfiltered.


----------



## AJSK66

Glad I've come across your recommendation of this Dave. I don't have an espresso machine yet but I do have a problem with the water in my house (London.) Mainly the ~300 hardness and crazy limescale buildup on everything the water touches, but other impurities like heavy metals, plastic etc. are also a concern.

A whole supply system would be super annoying due to lack of space and access in my house so I've been looking at getting something like a Berkeley tank for drinking water but this looks like a much better option and the ability to get hot water directly is a nice feature. Will probably be buying sometime in the near future.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


----------



## ArisP

I'm on the same boat here, having recently moved back to London. Brita for drinking water is ok...ish, but the plastic bottles for the espresso machine are a bit too much.

I read here that there might be an offer for forum members of a pack of filters, but nowhere on their website does it say if the £399 for the machine has a set of filters already installed (in which case the offer would mean you get a replacement set for free), which reduced the price from £399 to £344, assuming the filters cost £55.

It is also confusing that their website states "*5 year free repair warranty for customers in the UK" * but both here and on Amzn it is stated as 1 year?

Then again, it is 5am so it could just be the lack of sleep...

Any clarification will be much appreciated!


----------



## Jony

Think it's 12 month and you email osmio direct, tell them you are on here your forum name for filters and will be sent out with the machine


----------



## 17845

@DavecUK, I have a quick question :-

When i discard the last water to refill, do you discard just the water or do you drain the last drops from the filter as well.

@AJSK66, from my limited time with this system I doubt you would regret the purchase.


----------



## Jony

Just the tank which you can use for other duties.


----------



## DavecUK

I simply drain the tinted polycarbonate tank, then refill it (as @Jony said, the water can be used for other things like washing veg, washing recycling etc... As long as the filter at the bottom is free flowing, don't worry about it. Get some Milton tabs and once every month or two use half a Milton in the tank (one if you want), fill the tank about 2/3 full wipe the solution around the upper part above the water level, press your finger in the lower valve to flush some Milton through the lower Tank filter and leave for 15 - 20 minutes. This will keep it all clean and bacteria free.

Obviously rinse the tanks well after and flush some clean water through the lower tank filter

You can carry on and use the same Milton you made up to sterilise other things as well like the coffee machine water tank, any plastic drinking bottles etc..Don't discard that solution until you get your "moneys worth"

P.S. Don't put the tank in the Osmio until it's cleaned and flushed as you don't want Milton in the RO membrane!


----------



## Border_all

First being upfront lots of the technical and science stuff here is above me.. though thank you Dave for the review.

I was looking through the thread and see an estimated cost pa of £100 if the unit lasts for 5 years. I only have the Sage DTP that uses a filter in the water tank and requires descale if i bought the RO machine would i still need to replace the sage filter or could i do away with that?

A small point for those looking at cost pa looking on the website the hot water will cost less than a kettle not a deal breaker and you also save on the price of a kettle.

I am in Northumbrian water area and water quality says a little hard


----------



## DavecUK

You can do away with the tank filter.


----------



## DavecUK

Just an update....finally the maintenance light came on for the filter change today. I first commissioned the Osmio Zero on 5th January 2019, so the filters lasted 1 year. My water varies from about 270 in winter to almost 300 ppm TDS of hardness in summer. So that's a pretty good performance. I guess if you're in Norfolk YMMV but that is an extreme hardness area.

On the filters it says change after 1 year and I think all the Osmio warnings about 6 months are because many of their customers probably don't understand the implication of "topping up" the supply pitcher, *vs emptying and refilling* when the refill amber light flashes. *Just a reminder to all*. If you top up the supply pitcher because the system recirculates to save water, you effectively mix a solution of (approx) 1 litre of 4x hardness water + the 4 litres you add at your normal hardness. This effectively doubles the hardness the system is trying to filter out and halves filter life.....so always empty and refill the supply pitcher.


----------



## 17845

Our water TDS is very similar so if I get anywhere near the year I will be very happy.

Many thanks for the update @DavecUK


----------



## kken2007

I guess this RO system will be something in my home in 2020. (Never knew very hard water is running in Norfolk!)


----------



## Bulls6000

Would the osmio still make sense if my Tap water comes out 70ppm out the tap?

At the moment i run my tap water through a Bwt water filter to add Minerals. Ive seen the Osmio offer Dave posted so im trying to find something to convince me to buy it.


----------



## DavecUK

Bulls6000 said:


> Would the osmio still make sense if my Tap water comes out 70ppm out the tap?
> 
> At the moment i run my tap water through a Bwt water filter to add Minerals. Ive seen the Osmio offer Dave posted so im trying to find something to convince me to buy it.


 It depends on what else is in the water. If the water is very clean possibly fine for the espresso machine. That said have not drunk tap water for 15 years or more.


----------



## Sly

Sorry if this is a dumb question but how do you test your water to find out what's in it? I'm in London so obviously it's hard, just not sure how hard.

I've been interested in getting a decent water filter for a few years but big installed units aren't an option as I rent. Very interested in this osmio unit.


----------



## catpuccino

Sly said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question but how do you test your water to find out what's in it? I'm in London so obviously it's hard, just not sure how hard.
> 
> I've been interested in getting a decent water filter for a few years but big installed units aren't an option as I rent. Very interested in this osmio unit.


 You should be able to get detailed information from your local water authority website using your postcode.


----------



## MWJB

Sly said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question but how do you test your water to find out what's in it? I'm in London so obviously it's hard, just not sure how hard.
> 
> I've been interested in getting a decent water filter for a few years but big installed units aren't an option as I rent. Very interested in this osmio unit.


 You don't need to test your tap water, your local water authority will have a breakdown. You may just get a hardness rating in degrees, but if you dig deeper & give them your postcode, you can get a full breakdown, you ideally want: Calcium, Magnesium, Bicarbonate, Total Hardness, Alkalinity. Bicarbonate/Alkalinity is the most important aspect you are looking for.

You'll need to measure your total hardness & alkalinity with a GH & KH drop kit from Amazon, or an aquarium supply shop, when you start modifying that water.


----------



## Sly

Thames water's last report is from 2018 and says we have 308ppm of calcium carbonate. So yeah, pretty hard. Surely your building, pipes, local set up can vary what ends up in the water coming out of your tap though.

I've seen the notes about needing to change filters more often if in a hard water area, seems like all the more reason to filter it.


----------



## DavecUK

In London you definitely need one


----------



## Sly

Yeah London water sucks. Rubbish for drinking, washing yourself in, washing clothes in, leaves marks on everything...

Sounds like they work well. Seems like a no brainer if it allows me to get rid of the kettle and the Brita jug.

I can see these units becoming much more popular over the next few years.


----------



## catpuccino

Sly said:


> Yeah London water sucks. Rubbish for drinking, washing yourself in, washing clothes in, leaves marks on everything...
> 
> Sounds like they work well. Seems like a no brainer if it allows me to get rid of the kettle and the Brita jug.
> 
> I can see these units becoming much more popular over the next few years.


 Have you tried the BWT Mg2+ filters? They fit into most Brita jugs, curious how well they work with London water.


----------



## Sly

I've not heard of them but they look interesting. If I stick with a jug I'll check them out and let you know.


----------



## ArisP

catpuccino said:


> Have you tried the BWT Mg2+ filters? They fit into most Brita jugs, curious how well they work with London water.


 I tested these, in a Brita jug, see my topic here:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/49755-water-testing-for-gh-kh/?do=embed


----------



## MWJB

Sly said:


> Thames water's last report is from 2018 and says we have 308ppm of calcium carbonate. So yeah, pretty hard. Surely your building, pipes, local set up can vary what ends up in the water coming out of your tap though.
> 
> I've seen the notes about needing to change filters more often if in a hard water area, seems like all the more reason to filter it.


 You're not going to formulate your treated water by hardness, unless remineralising from scratch.

You need to know the alkalinity/bicarbonate, then you can strip the water via RO/distilling and cut it with a proportion of your tap water to remineralise & lift the alkalinity.


----------



## Sly

MWJB said:


> You're not going to formulate your treated water by hardness, unless remineralising from scratch.
> 
> You need to know the alkalinity/bicarbonate, then you can strip the water via RO/distilling and cut it with a proportion of your tap water to remineralise & lift the alkalinity.


 So there's an ideal amount of alkalinity you're aiming for and you need to work out how much of your local tap water to add back in to distilled water to get it to that level? Sounds like I've got a bit to read up on.


----------



## MWJB

Sly said:


> So there's an ideal amount of alkalinity you're aiming for and you need to work out how much of your local tap water to add back in to distilled water to get it to that level?


 Yes, that's right.

Usually ground water (from our taps/bottled spring water) will have a total hardness (GH) of around 1-2x the alkalinity (KH). Neither of these is really an issue, a bit more than 1x would be nice, a bit less than 2x would be nice, but hardness tolerance is broad. It is very likely your water already falls somewhere between these parameters, but you likely just have too much of everything.

What we are trying to do is get the alkalinity to around 50mg/L as CaCO3 (or 50-75mg/L as bicarbonate on a bottled water label). This is the more critical aspect.

Of course, if remineralising RO/distilled, you can tune any aspect you like in terms of hardness vs alkalinity. But if you were making your own water you would already know this. Check out Barista Hustle water recipes if this interests you. If not, there isn't really anything else to read up on.

For making your own water you will need 0.01g resolution scales, with reasonable accuracy. For mixing RO/distilled with your tap water you can use kitchen scales, or your regular brewing scales (0.1g resolution), which you should already have.


----------



## truegrace

Def tempted to get one of these. Live in the cotswolds so by default tap water is terrible, cloudy, and would never go near my sage.

Using waitrose bottled currently, but it is a waste using the plastic, and means I have to go into waitrose, and to be honest, not quite posh enough ?

Just need to convince the missus that we need one, should be easy enough when there is something she wants ?


----------



## DavecUK

truegrace said:


> Def tempted to get one of these. Live in the cotswolds so by default tap water is terrible, cloudy, and would never go near my sage.
> 
> Using waitrose bottled currently, but it is a waste using the plastic, and means I have to go into waitrose, and to be honest, not quite posh enough ?
> 
> Just need to convince the missus that we need one, should be easy enough when there is something she wants ?


 Theres a 321 group buy for the Osmio ongoing at the moment....

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/50210-osmio-zero-group-round-2/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=721308&embedComment=721308&embedDo=findComment#comment-721308


----------



## truegrace

@DavecUK ace, hadn't got that far down in the forums when I posted, have popped my name down.

For those that got the last group buy, was the invoice standard PayPal stuff (as I'm away over the weekend so unsure if I could pay until my return Monday evening)


----------



## DavecUK

truegrace said:


> @DavecUK ace, hadn't got that far down in the forums when I posted, have popped my name down.
> 
> For those that got the last group buy, was the invoice standard PayPal stuff (as I'm away over the weekend so unsure if I could pay until my return Monday evening)


 Pretty sure it was yeah..review here if you have some idle time whilst away... 

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/01/06/osmio-zero/


----------



## J_Fo

Hey people, I'm looking for a little advice.

I'm thinking of getting one of these but I'm a little confused about how you use the water after its gone through the machine.

Do I need to add minerals or anything to the water afterwards, and if so do I add different things/amounts depending on whether the water is for filter or for a machine?

I've had distilled water before and I was advised to add a sachet of Third Wave water, do people use that (or similar) with their Osmio Zeros?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice!


----------



## Jony

You don't need anything else, the last litre you use for pasta and other stuff


----------



## DavecUK

Pasta or washing recycling, dishes etc.. very little gets wasted in our house.


----------



## hotmetal

I might be wrong but I interpreted his question as "do I need to add stuff like bicarbonate to the RO water it dispenses?"

I kind of had the same question. Is the water from the Osmio with their remineralisation filter block ok as it is for espresso, or should we not use that filter and add our own?

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## Jony

Not really I have never done it, and to tell you the truth I have not even looked or checked my boilers haha. Sometimes I have abottle of Volvic or ashbeck for with my V60


----------



## J_Fo

hotmetal said:


> I might be wrong but I interpreted his question as "do I need to add stuff like bicarbonate to the RO water it dispenses?"
> 
> I kind of had the same question. Is the water from the Osmio with their remineralisation filter block ok as it is for espresso, or should we not use that filter and add our own?
> 
> ___
> Eat, drink and be merry


 Yeah, exactly, what he said!


----------



## Rickv

DavecUK said:


> Pasta or washing recycling, dishes etc.. very little gets wasted in our house.


If the last litre isn't good to drink how come it can be cooked with? excuse my ignorance. I've watched the reviews but still don't really understand.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hotmetal

Ok @Rickv I'm not the expert here (obviously!) but I think I can answer that. The last litre is the flush water, and will therefore have a much higher concentration of minerals and everything that's been removed from the other 4 litres. So if your tap water is 250 you might find that last litre is 1000. It's only hard water (mostly), and hopefully not full of nasties (given that tap water is held to much stricter purity than bottled water in the first place unless there is a problem with the local supply). It's not great for the RO membrane or the inside of your espresso machine; it's not necessarily injurious to health. It may possibly taste a bit chloriney (I'm guessing) but should therefore be safe due to the antibacterial properties of the chlorine. The espresso machine is obviously sensitive to scaling, and the discerning palate likewise. However your crockery, plants, vegetables or pasta won't care! It will be fine to cook with, and certainly to wash up with or to water the plants. Hope that makes sense.

@Jon_Foster I've just found our question was answered above at post #35, 74, 83, 101...

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?/topic/44691-Reverse-Osmosis---Osmio-Zero-review&do=findComment&comment=646098


----------



## J_Fo

hotmetal said:


> @Rickv
> 
> @Jon_Foster I've just found our question was answered above at post #35, 74, 83, 101...
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?/topic/44691-Reverse-Osmosis---Osmio-Zero-review&do=findComment&comment=646098


 Thanks for that @hotmetal I found that after posting yesterday as well! I should have had a better look in the first place...

The idea of mixing some water back in that hasn't been through the RO process to bring the water to the correct level seems quite genius.

And I suppose you could always pass it through the RO machine without the remineralisation filter (well a blank one) just add a third wave sachet to get it in a good place for pourover...

I'd like to completely do away with bottled water so I had a couple of alarm bells when some were saying they still used bottled water for coffee....

I found out my water hardness levels yesterday:

324.75 mg/l calcium carbonate

129.9 mg/l calcium

Does anyone know if that means my water hardness is 324.75 ppm or 454.65 ppm (the combined total)?

Either way it's very hard!! Does that make it even more important to get this type of machine or without some type of water softener will it just be too hard? I'm guessing it would just mean more frequent filter changes but that hardness does seem very high...

Again, any thoughts or advice very appreciated!




 


----------



## Jony

I use bottled water to add to v60 only, I bought the osmio for drinking and putting in my machine that's it. I most not going to see the outcome of used plastic so I am not losing sleep over it.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Jony said:


> I use bottled water to add to v60 only, I bought the osmio for drinking and putting in my machine that's it.


Why not the water from the Osmio for V60?


----------



## Jony

I do all the time, sometimes you just need to add a few desert spoons of volvic or ashbeck depending on what beans you have.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Jony said:


> I do all the time, sometimes you just need to add a few desert spoons of volvic or ashbeck depending on what beans you have.


Thanks.

It came across as if you used bottled water for V60 and Osmio for everything else. It's clear now you just mix it with the Osmio water.


----------



## Rickv

Thanks hotmetal. I'll have to try the flush water for cooking with then. Last thing I want is funky tasting pasta though. Maybe I'm overly paranoid.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hotmetal

I don't expect you'll taste the hardness of the water used to boil your spaghetti. It's not like you're purifying river water. 

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## Jony

Nothing funky I do it all the time and yes it's home made


----------



## Rickv

Ok ok ill use the water. You made the pasta? If so impressive. I can do pizza dough but never tried making pasta.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jony

Rickv said:


> Ok ok ill use the water. You made the pasta? If so impressive. I can do pizza dough but never tried making pasta.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It's easiest thing to do


----------



## Rickv

Time and space I just don't have any more  kitchen is full of bloody coffee stuff since finding this god damn site.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jony

Rickv said:


> Time and space I just don't have any more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kitchen is full of bloody coffee stuff since finding this god damn site.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I have about 2 m2 for my space


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Also, a good use for the Osmio "wasted" water, if you don't need to water the grass or make pasta , is to put in the toilet cistern to use it to flush the toilet instead of using clean water.

When you think about it, the wasted water in the Osmio is nothing compared to the amount of potable water we waste on a daily basis, like, to flush the toilet or washing cars. It would take a few tanks of "wasted water" from the Osmio to fill one single economic flush on a toilet.


----------



## Rickv

This osmio is going to pay for itself in no time at all jokes aside can't wait for it though. Not sure the wife will be so please though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gayatrisc

Hello


----------



## DavecUK

Rickv said:


> This osmio is going to pay for itself in no time at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jokes aside can't wait for it though. Not sure the wife will be so please though.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 If she is anything like mine, she may use it more than you. If mine broke I would have to instantly replace it, my entire family use it, wife and daughter hot water all the time and my son for drinking. I sometimes wonder where it all goes. I have to fill the supply pitcher at least 3 times per day...so I know 12 litres per day minimum are used....

As my wife is Chinese she used to have this 4 litre hot water boiler (it's a Chinese thing but a good idea). 4 litres at around 85C, I was constantly pressing the reboil button (annoying) and usually when I needed water it was dry as a bone (even more annoying). I'd have to refill and wait around 25 minutes fgor the stupid 500W heating element to get the water up to temp. Sometimes I'd refill wait 25m go down and all the "new" hot water was gone as someone had got there first!

The Osmio bought harmony to the house.....


----------



## coffeechap

gayatrisc said:


> Hello


 Hi


----------



## ratty

Been searching the sites for an hour or so and have obviously missed it somehow?

I'm sterilising the tanks of the Osmio and the Vesuvius tomorrow with Milton tablets.

Do I need to remove the Osmio water tank filter before filling with water and a milton tablet, or leave the filter in situ?

Feel stupid asking this but cannot find the info at the moment!


----------



## DavecUK

Remove the in tank filter unless your really going to rinse the filter it well...obviously remove the supply pitcher (tank) from the Osmio and put it in the sink, you do not want Milton getting in the carbon block and RO membrane!


----------



## ratty

Thanks Dave.

Yes I was cleaning it away from the machine!

Just wanted to know about the tank filter.


----------



## truegrace

How long is everyone's 'filtering' for on first use?

Filled mine, took about 30 mins til the filtering stopped and ran a full tank through, topped it back up, now its been going for another 30ish.

Not a huge issue, just wanted to know if it was the norm!


----------



## hotmetal

I was waiting for you (or one of the other 4) to post that. I started to worry, as I had imagined it would stop pumping after a couple of minutes. Mine took a similar amount of time before going quiet.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## truegrace

hotmetal said:


> I was waiting for you (or one of the other 4) to post that. I started to worry, as I had imagined it would stop pumping after a couple of minutes. Mine took a similar amount of time before going quiet.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Ace, at least there is 6 of us newbies!

Need to find a decent jug now to use to go from osmio to sage!


----------



## hotmetal

When you say "topped up", obviously you tipped away the last bit and refilled fully with fresh right? Topping up will get you on the naughty step, as you'll be trying to filter maybe 1000ppm water...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## hotmetal

I just set mine up for the first time and run 2 tanks full through it to get rid of the new taste.

I was surprised to see that straight out of the box, after 2 tanks, the green maintenance light is on. I sent them a WhatsApp message. Got an immediate response, it seems that I'm the first one to have this issue, the computer inside simply needed a reset as per the instructions for off you've changed the filters. It's all good now. Impressive support at this time of night!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## truegrace

hotmetal said:


> When you say "topped up", obviously you tipped away the last bit and refilled fully with fresh right? Topping up will get you on the naughty step, as you'll be trying to filter maybe 1000ppm water...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Yeah, apologies, force of habit speak!


----------



## truegrace

hotmetal said:


> I've just set mine up for the first time and run 2 tanks full through it to get rid of the new taste.
> 
> I am concerned to see that straight out of the box, after 2 tanks, the green maintenance light is on. Surely that can't be right?@truegrace presumably you haven't experienced this? I've sent them a WhatsApp message so we'll see what they say. The filters can't possibly be blocked, hopefully it's something simple.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Ran 2 tanks through on mine and no green light so far, will end up with a third tank tomorrow no doubt so will let you know


----------



## hotmetal

You quoted me while I was in the process of updating my post. It's all good, I just needed to do a reset as if I had changed the filters. They run on a timer so people don't leave the filters in for years until they go mouldy. My machine for some reason hasn't been reset from the factory. But it is now. Apparently the maintenance light shows green every 365 days (following a reset as per 5.2.3 in the manual) as a reminder to change the filters for hygiene reasons even if there is no blockage.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jony

Mine is red so green not sure if they change colour


----------



## Rickv

It any one else's drip tray and metal around the screen and tap lilac coloured instead of silver?









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hotmetal

@Rickv I hadn't really noticed until you said, because I got the black version and it's not so apparent, but yes, the silver isn't really the usual silver colour, it does have a slight lilac tinge to it, noticeable when you compare it with the temperature control dial.


----------



## hotmetal

Jony said:


> Mine is red so green not sure if they change colour


From what he said, when its the 4 other lights *and* the maintenance light then it's a filter blockage (which it wasn't in my case). Mine was just the timer not being reset at manufacture. I think the light is green when 365 days have elapsed and your filters have expired time-wise. He said now I've reset it, I won't see the green spanner for another year. I guess it goes red if there's a maintenance issue. ___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## Rickv

Ok. Glad it's not just me. I like it, just wasn't expecting it. Loving it so far.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hotmetal

Yep, all good here too. Just made a cup of tea, filled the coffee machine and done a sodastream for good measure! No more plastic bottles of water.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## Jony

Your all going to say why have we waited so long.

Got you this is why I did so well in school ?


----------



## J_Fo

Hey @hotmetal when you have a pour over/aeropress I'd love to know how you find it, it's the one thing that's giving me pause at the moment


----------



## hotmetal

Yes, I'm interested to try it. Taste is subjective and also I'm no expert. I'm looking forward to trying the 'hot' and 'boiling' settings straight into the aeropress. Actually, I will probably go straight for 'boiling' to allow for some cooling, especially if I use a jug between the Osmio and aeropress, because otherwise it'll be hard to get the exact quantity.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## NickG

Trying to get round 3 of the Group Buy off the ground if anyone reading this is interested


----------



## 17845

hotmetal said:


> Yes, I'm interested to try it. Taste is subjective and also I'm no expert. I'm looking forward to trying the 'hot' and 'boiling' settings straight into the aeropress. Actually, I will probably go straight for 'boiling' to allow for some cooling, especially if I use a jug between the Osmio and aeropress, *because otherwise it'll be hard to get the exact quantity.*
> 
> ___
> Eat, drink and be merry


 @hotmetal,

Hoping I understand you correctly.

You can get the exact quantity by pressing the button to start the flow and pressing again when you want it to stop.


----------



## DavecUK

hubcap said:


> @hotmetal,
> 
> Hoping I understand you correctly.
> 
> You can get the exact quantity by pressing the button to start the flow and pressing again when you want it to stop.




long press, lots of water


short press, a very full mug probably 250ml


Short press to start and then another short press to stop = any quantity 250ml and under that you desire.


Holding cup up whilst filling stops splashes....


----------



## hotmetal

Hi@hubcap and thanks. I know the button stops the water, but good luck getting exactly 250ml direct into an AP (although in my testing yesterday, 250ml happens to be roughly what you do get, happily!) This is no criticism of my new toy, but for sure some water continues to flow after you hit 'stop'. And the flow rate, modest though it may be, is still a bit quick to fill an aeropress by eye. It's just not a feature that the zero was designed with, and I am cool with that. I might give it a try nonetheless, as maybe after a few goes with scales instead of the drip tray, the correct time to press stop can be learnt? But I think it'll be easier to go via a small jug.

Anyone else who has had theirs for longer than 12 hours care to comment with their workflow for brewed or aeropress?

@DavecUK agreed (you posted while I was still typing). I think it'll be pretty close to an aeropress full. I need to try it. But of course I only got it set up yesterday and bought it mainly for your old R58. Thanks for your testing, recommendations and guidance on this great bit of kit!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## 17845

@DavecUK,

I have a solution to splashing in the form of a plastic plant pot ?


----------



## Man_Cave

So, I had a couple of mates over for a few beers, and one of them raised this issue with RO water. It is a WHO report on the health risks of drinking RO/distilled/demineralised/desalinated water. Seems remineralisation is crucial. Which brings the question... does the remineralisation cartilage of the Osmio add enough minerals? or should we supplement it with more to be sure?


----------



## ArisP

Man_Cave said:


> So, I had a couple of mates over for a few beers, and one of them raised this issue with RO water. It is a WHO report on the health risks of drinking RO/distilled/demineralised/desalinated water. Seems remineralisation is crucial. Which brings the question... does the remineralisation cartilage of the Osmio add enough minerals? or should we supplement it with more to be sure?


 Thanks for posting this, just read through it. It is unfortunate that it is not dated, and reading through it it looks old.

In my opinion, the taste of the water coming out of the osmio is very pleasant. I get the point about loss of fluoride and the inherent risks of microbial growth due to lack of treatment, but the risk is probably lower than in most homes with outdated plumbing.

In terms of minerals and bicarb, the amount the osmio puts back in is stated in this forum, and also measured in my post below; it varies, but I suppose it is not too far from what the report proposes to be the ideal range.

Personally, I make my own water following the BH recipes, but only for the espresso machine; for drinking I prefer it as it comes out of the osmio.

One last thought, and this would be more interesting for me, would be to find out if the RO filter used by osmio is able to filter out microplastics.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/49755-water-testing-for-gh-kh/?do=embed&comment=719544&embedComment=719544&embedDo=findComment


----------



## ratty

I use the Osmio to fill my French press directly and 'wriggle' the French press around to help soak the coffee thoroughly.

I also stir the top only, once full.

I have the Osmio set at 100c when filling as the quite long drop ensures the French press being filled is under 100c.

I do not weigh the french press as I know whereabouts I need to stop the flow and I'm not fussed about total accuracy like some are, as I drink a long drink with added milk.

The first 25ml odd of water, when set at 100c takes that long to come up to temperature and initially it's lukewarm. I use a small cup above the French press and discard that first small amount of water.


----------



## J_Fo

ArisP said:


> Personally, I make my own water following the BH recipes, but only for the espresso machine; for drinking I prefer it as it comes out of the osmio.
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/49755-water-testing-for-gh-kh/?do=embed&comment=719544&embedComment=719544&embedDo=findComment


 Hey @ArisP could you talk me through the process of making your own water? Thank you!


----------



## Man_Cave

ArisP said:


> Thanks for posting this, just read through it. It is unfortunate that it is not dated, and reading through it it looks old.
> 
> In my opinion, the taste of the water coming out of the osmio is very pleasant. I get the point about loss of fluoride and the inherent risks of microbial growth due to lack of treatment, but the risk is probably lower than in most homes with outdated plumbing.
> 
> In terms of minerals and bicarb, the amount the osmio puts back in is stated in this forum, and also measured in my post below; it varies, but I suppose it is not too far from what the report proposes to be the ideal range.
> 
> Personally, I make my own water following the BH recipes, but only for the espresso machine; for drinking I prefer it as it comes out of the osmio.
> 
> One last thought, and this would be more interesting for me, would be to find out if the RO filter used by osmio is able to filter out microplastics.
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/49755-water-testing-for-gh-kh/?do=embed&comment=719544&embedComment=719544&embedDo=findComment


 Yes, the report is old (it says that much) but the experiments results remains unchallenged. My main concern is the reported depletion of the body's mineral reserves by drinking RO water. And the findings that not even a balanced diet makes up for it. The reported health consequences of exclusive RO water consumption are serious and, the fact one may show no symptoms while the damage is being done, it's frankly frightening. 
I can confirm that RO water has very low thirst quenching qualities. I find myself drinking a lot more than usual and that, will accelerate the minerals reserves depletion process.

For now, and until I can exercise a more in-depth study, I shall stick to brita/evian for drinking and a mixture of RO/tab water for the Sage.

It's a real shame, The water out of our tabs comes out at a whooping 590ppm TDS, 7.3Ph and 39 salinity. The osmio delivers a very impressive 70ppm TDS, 6.5Ph and 10 salinity (measured with a very Expensive 3 stage calibrated probe). So much for the 357 total water hardness claimed by our water supplier!


----------



## DavecUK

I actually read the report... Wasn't too impressed.


----------



## Man_Cave

DavecUK said:


> I actually read the report... Wasn't too impressed.


 I know you've been drinking RO water for some 15 years with no ill effects. So, I am not sure what's going on. Maybe your diet is very rich in minerals.

For my part, my diet is not particularly healthy, (mostly takeaways and microwave foods stuff) and so, I found the report to be very informative. . I'll be sure to investigate this further and depending on what conclusions I arrive at, maybe contemplate using the Osmio for drinking with a supplement of mineral pills from the health shop.

What was it about the report that left you unimpressed?


----------



## ArisP

Jon_Foster said:


> Hey @ArisP could you talk me through the process of making your own water? Thank you!


 Hey @Jon_Foster

Sure thing, but don't want to hijack this thread. Maybe start another thread with the question and I (and others) can respond there.


----------



## DavecUK

Frantisek Kozisek



Man_Cave said:


> What was it about the report that left you unimpressed?


 The scientific method and check out the papers he links to, they make similar bad assumptions, Frantisek Kozisek cherry picks what he wants from them. I don't know your background but I will assume you have a good scientific grounding in experimentation and interpretation of scientific papers. His paper is a study of information from other studies which pull data together from other studies etc.. and working groups, some with minimal or no experimental data apart from observation using self selected, self reported studies on small select populations. This is some of the most unreliable type of experimental data you can get. He then carefully selects a part of a study to prove his hypothesis.

Am Heart J, 102 Aug;124(2):544-9 Magnesium deficiency and sudden death Mark J. Eisenberg, MD, MPH San Francisco, Calif.: This study which is also quoted in the link.. which I can't seem to link to very effectively has the little gem in it.

A series of studies also examined myocardial Mg content in people dying of sudden death and in controls who died of trauma (Table I).32-37 These studies consistently showed depressed levels of myocardial Mg in people who died suddenly. *Although it is clear that myocardial Mg content is decreased after sudden death, it is still unclear whether this is a cause or an effect.*

The bit in bold didn't suit his hypothesis, so he didn't use it, or mention it. However that last sentence in bold basically invalidated the musings of the entire study by Eisenberg as interesting but proving nothing. If everything he cites is like this and all the stuff I looked at that was cited wasn't very good. His report is built on a very shaky foundation. Trouble with science and research grants is you can pretty much try and conclude what you want for that next grant, or leave it open ended.

He cited another study about fractures in Majorca schoolkids, again a terribly constructed experiment, drawing no real conclusion that Kozisek again cites as definitive.

It finishes with There is a statistically significant relationship between fractures and low calcium levels in the water supply. This association is stronger for children 11 years of age than for children 14 years old. This rings alarm bells about the study and it's conclusions...The sample size is too small, it's done in 3 towns in Majorca, over 2 terms only, did they study records of drinking water during the last 5 years, were they accurate, why the 11/14 years old difference, reported data, no idea of demographics etc.. etc..

Just go and check out the things he cites and as you read them you will find he is very selective and the studies I looked at were not well constructed, or followed up for verification, some even disproved now.

Saturated Fat causes heart disease: They used to think it did, now they are not so sure, or think it doesn't. The main perpetrator of this scare Ancel Keys, did a study (pulling together data from studies, sound familiar) to prove his hypothesis that saturated fats caused heart disease, unfortunately the results were not conclusive....so he eliminated the ones that did not fit and left 7 or so countries which did fit. Sadly the other common factor in those countries was changing diets with ever increasing levels of carbohydrates and sugars.

*Whatever you decide to do I'm sure it will be right for you, if you feel uncomfortable about using RO water, don't use it.* I made my own mind up long ago about what I wanted to do after experiments distilling tap water....that was enough for me when I saw and smelt what was left.. You can also look up about fluoride in drinking water, eating bacon and any number of "dangerous" things we do. So many conflicting views by scientists, the important thing, those views often change over time.


----------



## Man_Cave

DavecUK said:


> Frantisek Kozisek
> 
> The scientific method and check out the papers he links to, they make similar bad assumptions, Frantisek Kozisek cherry picks what he wants from them. ...[snip]
> 
> *Whatever you decide to do I'm sure it will be right for you, if you feel uncomfortable about using RO water, don't use it.* I made my own mind up long ago about what I wanted to do after experiments distilling tap water....that was enough for me when I saw and smelt what was left.. You can also look up about fluoride in drinking water, eating bacon and any number of "dangerous" things we do. So many conflicting views by scientists, the important thing, those views often change over time.


 Thank you for brining forwards your thoughts.

Like you, I am one of those people who like to investigate things thoroughly. 
As I said, my diet is not healthy and so, I'll have to invest time researching this further.

Untill then, the Osmio will be used to provide water for tea and coffee making.

Cheers.


----------



## BadDad

NickG said:


> Trying to get round 3 of the Group Buy off the ground if anyone reading this is interested ?


 Definitely interested here


----------



## Jony

I'm sure it's started already


----------



## J_Fo

Excited to have got on board the latest group buy!

Hopefully my Peak won't be far behind... Interested to see if passing RO water through it could work well for filter coffee.

Maybe one day... ?



ArisP said:


> Hey @Jon_Foster
> 
> Sure thing, but don't want to hijack this thread. Maybe start another thread with the question and I (and others) can respond there.


 Cool stuff @ArisP I'll make one


----------



## Alex_L

Long time lurker. I'm thinking of getting the zero for my Rancilo Silva (but in reality in prep for an upgrade to a double boiler machine this year) as the plastic associated with bottled water depresses me. It ticks all the boxes for me but I have an edge case regarding the in-laws and tea making if the kettle is to go.

The in-laws drink tea in enormous mugs that take probably 4-500ml, so 1000ml at a time when they make two mugs. From reading around here I can see boiling water flow is about 4-500ml a minute. My questions are:

1. What is the maximum boiling water volume you can draw in one go?

2. What sort of recharge time am I looking at if I exhaust the boiling water to start getting boiling water again?


----------



## DavecUK

Alex_L said:


> Long time lurker. I'm thinking of getting the zero for my Rancilo Silva (but in reality in prep for an upgrade to a double boiler machine this year) as the plastic associated with bottled water depresses me. It ticks all the boxes for me but I have an edge case regarding the in-laws and tea making if the kettle is to go.
> 
> The in-laws drink tea in enormous mugs that take probably 4-500ml, so 1000ml at a time when they make two mugs. From reading around here I can see boiling water flow is about 4-500ml a minute. My questions are:
> 
> 1. What is the maximum boiling water volume you can draw in one go?
> 
> 2. What sort of recharge time am I looking at if I exhaust the boiling water to start getting boiling water again?


 Holy crap, really, almost a pint of tea each!










1. You can get over a litre, long press of the button. You can get a further 500 ml no problem after that

2. Not sure but it will be ready long before they finish their tea if they need another cup. probably less than 5 minutes.

My family have huge amounts of hot water in flasks, keeping themselves super hydrated (a Chinese thing). 12 - 16 litres per day of mostly hot water. I would get a bit salty if it took a long, time. Often they see me making an espresso and before I can add Osmio hot water for my Americano...out comes their flask or huge teapot and a litre is outed from the machine. i don't think you will have a problem.


----------



## Jony

Alex_L said:


> Long time lurker. I'm thinking of getting the zero for my Rancilo Silva (but in reality in prep for an upgrade to a double boiler machine this year) as the plastic associated with bottled water depresses me. It ticks all the boxes for me but I have an edge case regarding the in-laws and tea making if the kettle is to go.
> 
> The in-laws drink tea in enormous mugs that take probably 4-500ml, so 1000ml at a time when they make two mugs. From reading around here I can see boiling water flow is about 4-500ml a minute. My questions are:
> 
> 1. What is the maximum boiling water volume you can draw in one go?
> 
> 2. What sort of recharge time am I looking at if I exhaust the boiling water to start getting boiling water again?


 Ban all tea drinkers, oh and welcome


----------



## Alex_L

DavecUK said:


> Holy crap, really, almost a pint of tea each!
> 
> 
> 
> 1. You can get over a litre, long press of the button. You can get a further 500 ml no problem after that
> 
> 2. Not sure but it will be ready long before they finish their tea if they need another cup. probably less than 5 minutes.
> 
> My family have huge amounts of hot water in flasks, keeping themselves super hydrated (a Chinese thing). 12 - 16 litres per day of mostly hot water. I would get a bit salty if it took a long, time. Often they see me making an espresso and before I can add Osmio hot water for my Americano...out comes their flask or huge teapot and a litre is outed from the machine. i don't think you will have a problem.


 Thanks for the reply. Really helpful. I've never met anyone that drinks tea quite like them so being able to make two mugs is critical if it is to replace the kettle. Sounds like the osmio is up to the job. Now to order.



Jony said:


> Ban all tea drinkers, oh and welcome


 Hahaha. Honestly I would but they're useful for the free childcare two days a week.


----------



## ratty

Keep the kettle too!

Don't forget they are only in-laws and your Osmio water is precious. ??


----------



## DavecUK

I checked an old vid, I think it might be around 1.2 litres of hot water before it needs to refill, so 1 litre of tea should be fine. After that you might have to wait a few minutes.


----------



## Alex_L

ratty said:


> Keep the kettle too!
> 
> Don't forget they are only in-laws and your Osmio water is precious. ??


 To be fair, I suspect we'll go through a period of showing them how to use it and then they'll give up and revert to the kettle. They're not the best at change.


----------



## Alex_L

DavecUK said:


> I checked an old vid, I think it might be around 1.2 litres of hot water before it needs to refill, so 1 litre of tea should be fine. After that you might have to wait a few minutes.


 That's great and I really appreciate the help!


----------



## J_Fo

So I've had the Osmio for just under a week and I'm absolutely loving it. It's working great as is for espresso and filter. I was thinking I might tinker with how I remineralise the water for filter but tbh it's really good as is so not sure I'll even bother.

The one issue I had was that first thing in the morning I was getting an unusual taste in the water but after that it was fine. I thought at first that it was maybe just new machine taste but as it was only happening first thing I was a little uncertain...

I contacted Osmio and Jon told me that as some of the water sits in the remineralisation chamber overnight the first glass in the morning can taste a little more minerally(?), it's totally normal and pouring away the first glass will get you back to where you need to be.

After this I realised that first thing in the morning I'd only been filtering through a tiny amount of water (30mlish) to see if the taste was still there... so I'd unwittingly been solely drinking the water that was in the reminerlisation chamber overnight... No wonder it tasted a little punchy 

Just wanted to pass this on in case anyone had similar issues and to say that if you're on the fence I would absolutely recommend taking the plunge. I wont be buying anymore plastic bottles and I'm unbelievably happy about that!!


----------



## DavecUK

Great Tip, it's something the rest of my family do for me when they all fill their litre flasks with hot water or green tea leaving the supply pitcher empty and internal tank empty for when I finally get to the Osmio.

I must admit if my Osio went terminal, I would buy another in a heartbeat....can't imagine being without it now.


----------



## Planter

I know it was written somewhere but can't see it skimming over.

What type of feet/slide/felt are people using to move their osmio in and out easier?

Cheers

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jony

Planter said:


> I know it was written somewhere but can't see it skimming over.
> 
> What type of feet/slide/felt are people using to move their osmio in and out easier?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 Blow me down you buying one!!


----------



## DavecUK

Planter said:


> I know it was written somewhere but can't see it skimming over.
> 
> What type of feet/slide/felt are people using to move their osmio in and out easier?
> 
> Cheers


 I got some of those felt ones from the £1 tub/shelf they have at all Tesco stores. I do find that they don't stick so good, so I now moved to an acryclic roofing triple ply sheet (5 mm thick)slide/sled...I finally moved it to a more convenient place (for me) where we don't have to move it..

Also my better half when filling it "right up", used to whoosh it quickly back into place and the water kept slopping out of the supply pitcher, running inside then leaking out the bottom. It used to get the felts wet.. Fortunately it's all empty space where the water used to run in so damages nothing, just an irritation I no longer have.


----------



## Planter

Jony said:


> Blow me down you buying one!!


Might already have one

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jony

Haha Not very pleasant of you @Planter


----------



## J_Fo

I need to make a recipe that calls for distilled water.

Does anyone know how much of a mission it is to swap the mineral chamber thing out for a blank, then to swap it back again?

Thank you! ?


----------



## El carajillo

Quite simple, remove the tank, lean filters outward and twist to remove them. Behind these is a ring attached to the mineral filter, just pull gentlly and it will come out.

Obtain a blank (empty) filter and press in to replace. Replace cartridges and tank, refill= no mineralisation.


----------



## DavecUK

Just remember membranes have a a rejection %, so for lowest TDS figures, Internal tank should be Emptied (run it with the pitcher lid up until you can run it no more) and supply pitcher emptied and refilled, then let the internal tank refill.

As the supply pitcher gets lower the TDS within it goes higher and the TDS of the water the Osmio produces also gets higher. If you use water from Osmio when pitcher is nearly empty, it's likely the water will be at it's highest TDS.


----------



## J_Fo

Brilliant chaps, thank you, I picked up a sterilisation kit when I ordered it so have my blank cartridge.


----------



## TomHughes

A couple of questions about the Osmio. 
Can you just disconnect the re-mineralisation thingy or do you need a blank one? is this just a used one? 
Mine is only adding about 18tds at the moment so I'm not sure it matters too much, I was going to add a tiny dash of magnesium as per the BH recipe.

How much bicarb are people adding if any?


----------



## TomHughes

So far not rating the kettle side of things, I don't think the kettle will be going anywhere! 
That first bit of lukewarm water is a real PITA.


----------



## hotmetal

I just use the first little dribble to warm the cup. It's only a little bit and comes out almost boiling after the first couple of seconds.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## TomHughes

hotmetal said:


> I just use the first little dribble to warm the cup. It's only a little bit and comes out almost boiling after the first couple of seconds.
> 
> ___
> Eat, drink and be merry


 Yes, but lets say your filling a french press and you want the water boiling as it leaves so it hits the coffee at 92-96 to optimally extract it's no good to have a shot of cold water first!


----------



## hotmetal

TomHughes said:


> Yes, but lets say your filling a french press and you want the water boiling as it leaves so it hits the coffee at 92-96 to optimally extract it's no good to have a shot of cold water first!


So you wouldn't warm up your French press with that little bit of not quite boiling water then? Why not? It is surely the same as when I make an aeropress, no? First 30ml (guessing) goes to warm the brewer. I then tip it into the cup to take the chill off that. The next bit of water from the Osmio is so close to boiling and the brewer is pre-warmed. I get excellent results with my AP that way. I'd have thought if you're worried about the exact temperature you'd certainly want to pre warm a glass brewing vessel like a French press.

Plus your Osmio is doing a lot more than your kettle. At least you have good water, and it is hot enough to brew tea or coffee well.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## TomHughes

hotmetal said:


> So you wouldn't warm up your French press with that little bit of not quite boiling water then? Why not? It is surely the same as when I make an aeropress, no? First 30ml (guessing) goes to warm the brewer. I then tip it into the cup to take the chill off that. The next bit of water from the Osmio is so close to boiling and the brewer is pre-warmed. I get excellent results with my AP that way. I'd have thought if you're worried about the exact temperature you'd certainly want to pre warm a glass brewing vessel like a French press.
> 
> Plus your Osmio is doing a lot more than your kettle. At least you have good water, and it is hot enough to brew tea or coffee well.
> 
> ___
> 
> Eat, drink and be merry


 I am more meaning the first bit of the water that comes from the boiling is about 80 max, even having purged that lukewarm first bit. 
It takes at least 5 seconds to ramp up the temp each time.

So far I prefer the taste of the tap water (yorkshire water) so I guess that might be different for people who have nasty tap water. 
Our water is hard (tds 300) but it tastes pretty good.

Measuring with a thermometer stuck in the coffee sludge I'm get 85C max. Which isn't really good enough. 
I get 92ish from the kettle. 
Small numbers are important


----------



## hotmetal

Fair enough. So you'll use RO in the espresso machine, and tap water for brewed or tea I guess. Our water in Thames valley is similarly hard, probably worse tasting though, so I prefer the Osmio water in tea (less scum on the surface for one thing), and I find it less wasteful than the kettle for AP, and am really glad I'm not lugging bottles of water from the supermarket during lockdown!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## TomHughes

hotmetal said:


> Fair enough. So you'll use RO in the espresso machine, and tap water for brewed or tea I guess. Our water in Thames valley is similarly hard, probably worse tasting though, so I prefer the Osmio water in tea (less scum on the surface for one thing), and I find it less wasteful than the kettle for AP, and am really glad I'm not lugging bottles of water from the supermarket during lockdown!
> 
> ___
> 
> Eat, drink and be merry


 Yes definitely, for that reason it is worth keeping it.


----------



## hotmetal

In my little kitchen I was so happy I could get rid of the kettle and bottles! Sounds like for your usage you're better off hanging on to yours.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## DavecUK

Hold small container under flow for first 5s then remove.... Problem solved.


----------



## 17845

I have been doing exactly that (Hold small container under flow for first 5s then remove) since day one.

Kettle was dumped a couple of days later.


----------



## TomHughes

Ah no problem, easy enough to do!

One thing I have found is though, I don't like the real taste of tea!!! 
I think our calcium rich water was covering up the tannins, tea is rank!

back to coffee for me.


----------



## Border_all

Must admit tea is very different. Earl grey is lovely and herbal much nicer


----------



## DavecUK

Border_all said:


> Must admit tea is very different. Earl grey is lovely and herbal much nicer


 Agreed, tea of all types is much improved when using an Osmio. My wife is a big tea drinker, green teas, herbals, various chinese teas etc..loves the Osmio for teas.


----------



## TomHughes

So I've got a v60 arriving tomorrow, but now have ditched the kettle in favour of the osmio.

I've never used a v60 before so no idea what I'm supposed to do!

Are people getting pouring directly from the Osmio into the v60.

Dont tell me I need to get the kettle out again???


----------



## Jony

No you need to get a pouring Jug,


----------



## TomHughes

Jony said:


> No you need to get a pouring Jug,


 Oh Jesus. Not more stuff!


----------



## Jony

Only cheap off amazon I paid £6 for mine I take it traveling.


----------



## catpuccino

TomHughes said:


> So I've got a v60 arriving tomorrow, but now have ditched the kettle in favour of the osmio.
> 
> I've never used a v60 before so no idea what I'm supposed to do!
> 
> Are people getting pouring directly from the Osmio into the v60.
> 
> Dont tell me I need to get the kettle out again???


 At least three ways of looking at this imo:

1. You're in the camp that believes boiling/off-boil is best

2. You're in the camp that thinks temperature is an important variable (you might want to brew at say 92c, 94c, 96c etc)

3. You're happy with any temperature as long as it's a constant

The Osmio is more or less suitable depending on what you want to believe and what kind of v60 methods you want to use. 1 and 3 might be the same thing for the Osmio, I don't know how close to boiling they get and how stable that temperature is depending on usage etc. I remember reading a comment from @DavecUK about flushing some water and then the newly heated water being closer to boiling?

Either way as @Jony says you really need a gooseneck kettle to decant into (which will also mean some temperature loss). Some say you don't, and you don't, but you do if you understand what I mean 😛


----------



## TomHughes

This kinda thing?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Newness-Narrow-Spout-Coffee-Small/dp/B07RBM52SL/ref=mp_s_a_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=pouring+kettle&qid=1588015701&sprefix=pouring+&sr=8-11


----------



## Jony

Something like that mine was half that😎


----------



## TomHughes

Jony said:


> Something like that mine was half that😎


 Times have changed!


----------



## Jony

Of Course


----------



## CLE

Thanks, very useful information


----------



## 17845

Recieved an email last week telling me it is time to change the filters ?

Bought in December so no warnings yet.

Might be a sales ploy to buy the filters which were offered in the email :-

*
Dear alan,
*

The following components of your system *Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis Replacement Filters Pack* are due for replacement:

Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis Replacement Filters Pack

If you do not already have spares, you can buy online here


----------



## DavecUK

hubcap said:


> Recieved an email last week telling me it is time to change the filters ?
> 
> Bought in December so no warnings yet.
> 
> Might be a sales ploy to buy the filters which were offered in the email :-
> 
> *
> Dear alan,
> *
> 
> The following components of your system *Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis Replacement Filters Pack* are due for replacement:
> 
> Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis Replacement Filters Pack
> 
> If you do not already have spares, you can buy online here


 I think that's a hang over from the days when it wasn't made explicitly clear to people, to* not* top the pitcher up when empty but to *completely drain* and refill it. Partly because Osmio didn't realise people were doing this....even now I suspect many people (not on this forum) are filling the Osmio incorrectly by topping up. This reduces filter life massively and hence the 6 month e-mail.

You're Osmio will tell you when filters need changing, my water TDS is 270+ in winter and 300-350 in summer and we use 16+ litres per day, my Osmio filters were fine for 1 year at which point they hit a hard time limit for change. The sensor for reduced flow didn't go off at all for an earlier change. Ignore it if you already have a spare filter pack and change it when your Osmio unit asks you to.

P.S. It's not a sales ploy, the owner doesn't work like that.


----------



## DavecUK

It's worth reading my review update done a while back.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2019/07/14/osmio-zero-6-months-later/


----------



## -Mac

TomHughes said:


> This kinda thing?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Newness-Narrow-Spout-Coffee-Small/dp/B07RBM52SL/ref=mp_s_a_1_11?dchild=1&keywords=pouring+kettle&qid=1588015701&sprefix=pouring+&sr=8-11


 Or this:


----------



## TomHughes

> 12 minutes ago, -Mac said:
> 
> Or this:


 Wow that is truly ugly! 
And that plastic, no thanks! Never ever heat or put heated water in plastic.


----------



## Power Freak

hubcap said:


> Recieved an email last week telling me it is time to change the filters ?
> 
> Bought in December so no warnings yet.
> 
> Might be a sales ploy to buy the filters which were offered in the email :-
> 
> *
> Dear alan,
> *
> 
> The following components of your system *Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis Replacement Filters Pack* are due for replacement:
> 
> Osmio Zero Reverse Osmosis Replacement Filters Pack
> 
> If you do not already have spares, you can buy online here


 I got this email too, I bought it way before december! I guess it was likely an error in the system somewhere.

FWIW for the people reading this thread I've found I need to change filters every 6 months. The water here in London is particularly nasty it seems.

(Oh and remember to reset the filter change light when you change the filters - even if the light isn't showing. There's instructions how to do it in the manual, if you don't it can very quickly tell you the filters "need" to be changed again)


----------



## iroko

Anybody having issues with the auto shut off and beep when It goes below 1 litre, mine just keeps sucking until I lift the lid up to stop the unit.

I've reset the unit a few times, It might work once or twice then goes back to sucking air until I lift the lid ?


----------



## TomHughes

iroko said:


> Anybody having issues with the auto shut off and beep when It goes below 1 litre, mine just keeps sucking until I lift the lid up to stop the unit.
> 
> I've reset the unit a few times, It might work once or twice then goes back to sucking air until I lift the lid ?


 Not had that. But if someone could tell me how to get the pi55ing beeping to stop! What's wrong with 3 beeps!


----------



## DavecUK

It will suck air for a while before the pressure sensor shuts pump off. It's a diaphragm pump so it won't be damaged. I think it can run with gurgling for up to a minute or so.


----------



## facboy

DavecUK said:


> It will suck air for a while before the pressure sensor shuts pump off. It's a diaphragm pump so it won't be damaged. I think it can run with gurgling for up to a minute or so.


 yep that's what mine does.

the beeping stops after a minute or so.


----------



## 2953

Guaranteed to go off of course just as you get into bed 😅


----------



## adamk

petebetros said:


> Guaranteed to go off of course just as you get into bed 😅


 Happens too many times 🤣


----------



## DavecUK

petebetros said:


> Guaranteed to go off of course just as you get into bed 😅


 There is a fix for that, move it from beside the bed to the Kitchen ....😴


----------



## iroko

DavecUK said:


> It will suck air for a while before the pressure sensor shuts pump off. It's a diaphragm pump so it won't be damaged. I think it can run with gurgling for up to a minute or so.


 I've let It run for up to five minutes without shutting off, when the lid is lifted it seems to releases all the air back into the water tank.

I'm not really too fussed.about it, I just make sure I'm in the kitchen when tank is about to run low. I'll ask Osmio about it when I have to order more filters.


----------



## facboy

the water flow from mine has started occasionally 'spreading' for want of a better word, normally it's a straight stream, but every now and then in the last week or so it will 'split' and make a small mess. anybody else seen the same?


----------



## AndyDClements

Yes, I get that occasionally. Doesn't really bother me as I normally just raise the vessel so that both streams are still going in.


----------



## DavecUK

iroko said:


> I've let It run for up to five minutes without shutting off, when the lid is lifted it seems to releases all the air back into the water tank.
> 
> I'm not really too fussed.about it, I just make sure I'm in the kitchen when tank is about to run low. I'll ask Osmio about it when I have to order more filters.


 I would mention it to Osmio, 5m doesn't sound right. Perhaps there is something they can assist with.


----------



## AJP80

This happens to mine from time to time. A quick twist of the plastic spout/ nipple usually sorts it.


----------



## DavecUK

AJP80 said:


> This happens to mine from time to time. A quick twist of the plastic spout/ nipple usually sorts it.


 I didn't know it twisted


----------



## ChilledMatt

I've joined the latest round on the forum to buy one of these. TBH I struggle in understanding the whole subject of water quality with Chemistry being largely a mystery to me.

I live in Norfolk and we have very hard water. I have got round this for my espresso machines and kettle by using Tesco Ashbeck and I'm very keen to stop this for both environmental and financial reasons.

Could one of you learned gentleman spell out to me how having such hard water is going to affect my usage of the Osmio Zero. Is it just a case of replacing the filters more regularly? Is there anything I can do to help the OZ, such as a filter jug? I'm also a little confused about the remineralisation process.

Thanks all









Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

You will have to change filters more often, you might get away with changing the carbon one only every other filter change.

Never top up the tank always empty completely. The only way to cost effectively extend filter life in your situation is to empty and refill tank at 500ml or 1 litre above the minimum because of how the unit works.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

If it's just for the coffee machine, buy a jug filter. It will be much more environmentally friendly than any installed system.

If it is for the house, then that's a whole different matter.

RO is industrial engineering ported to a domestic environment.

Imho. Obv.


----------



## DavecUK

Blue_Cafe said:


> If it's just for the coffee machine, buy a jug filter. It will be much more environmentally friendly than any installed system.
> 
> If it is for the house, then that's a whole different matter.
> 
> RO is industrial engineering ported to a domestic environment.
> 
> Imho. Obv.


 You are completely wrong and talking nonsense about the Osmio system which you clearly don't understand.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

Blue_Cafe said:


> If it's just for the coffee machine, buy a jug filter


 and as happened to me, get your coffee machine horribly scaled up......

Even with a filter jug/under sink - my kettle needs descaling, albeit twice a year instead of about 6 times per year....


----------



## Blue_Cafe

ZiggyMarley said:


> and as happened to me, get your coffee machine horribly scaled up......
> 
> Even with a filter jug/under sink - my kettle needs descaling, albeit twice a year instead of about 6 times per year....


 Well, it's difficult to get all of the minerals out of water and for taste and the health of you and your equipment, you don't want 100% pure water in the pipes.

A good jug filter, replaced regularly will be good enough. Descaling just twice a year is a good compromise, no?


----------



## Blue_Cafe

DavecUK said:


> You are completely wrong and talking nonsense about the Osmio system which you clearly don't understand.


 Do explain.


----------



## ZiggyMarley

Blue_Cafe said:


> A good jug filter, replaced regularly will be good enough. Descaling just twice a year is a good compromise, no?


 For a kettle maybe, still a PITA, but not for the coffee machine where is was way too much faff. It ruined my coffee machine over the years (oh yes it was a good jug with regularly changed filters)


----------



## Northern_Monkey

@Blue_Cafe - Wish it was good enough, I descale my Mara every 6 months and it is always a pain. I have used jug and in tank filters, it helps but still causes a lot of build up and it's a faff with the litres and litres of rinsing needed to fully flush the HX boiler via the HW tap. The whole descaling procedure isn't great for your machine longevity either.

I will be getting an under sink BWT v sized filter fitted very soon, from theirs specs and my water hardness each one should hopefully last a year. Really crossing my fingers it moves the descaling interval to 12 or even 24 months. 🤞

I would have gotten an Osmio if we had a bigger kitchen, but couldn't justify it since acquiring a massive grinder and coffee machine which is big by "non-enthusiast" standards.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

ZiggyMarley said:


> For a kettle maybe, still a PITA, but not for the coffee machine where is was way too much faff. It ruined my coffee machine over the years (oh yes it was a good jug with regularly changed filters)


 But shouldn't you be doing the descale regime to suit the water hardness?

You can estimate what the water hardness is post-filter, by asking your water authority what the hardness is from the tap and going to the filter manufacturers website.

From that, you can refer to Gaggias (or whomever ) website for the recommended descaling regime,

Personally, I'd just keep an eye on the kettle and do both at the same time.

A bit of a faff but if you live in a hard water area, it's something you do anyway.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Blue_Cafe - Wish it was good enough, I descale my Mara every 6 months and it is always a pain. I have used jug and in tank filters, it helps but still causes a lot of build up and it's a faff with the litres and litres of rinsing needed to fully flush the HX boiler via the HW tap. The whole descaling procedure isn't great for your machine longevity either.
> 
> I will be getting an under sink BWT v sized filter fitted very soon, from theirs specs and my water hardness each one should hopefully last a year. Really crossing my fingers it moves the descaling interval to 12 or even 24 months. 🤞
> 
> I would have gotten an Osmio if we had a bigger kitchen, but couldn't justify it since acquiring a massive grinder and coffee machine which is big by "non-enthusiast" standards.


 Yes, those pesky non-enthusiasts lol.

I am honing my barista skills ATM to keep mine as happy (re: quiet) as possible 

I'd go for the undersink options in a hard water area anyway and run the house of it. Descaling, lather, heating, etc become a huge issue. Nice tasting coffee would be a big bonus!


----------



## Northern_Monkey

@Blue_Cafe Average house uses approx 127,385 litres per year.

Largest size BWT under sink does about 3,335 litres at my water hardness to espresso machine standard and costs £300.

Whole house systems I would expect to be different and produce water of a non espresso machine standard. Reckon you would still need to do something else even with a full house system.


----------



## DavecUK

Blue_Cafe said:


> Do explain.


 Look I've nothing against you, I was polite about the "brass spanners", I read with dismay your comments about @MrShades(who I don't know and have no connection with) and your many other comments.

I appreciate everyone needs to learn. The problem with not knowing enough is the, "you don't know what you don't know" issue. This leads to advice which is sub optimal. That normally wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that people on here have spent a lot of money on their machines and "might" follow your advice. Poor water quality is the cause of 95% of machine problems that are not due to a component reaching the end of it's expected life, descaling can itself introduce problems. Descaling is the cost of failure and should be avoided in favour of better water.

You have not even asked the right questions of the other person @ChilledMatt. I was on my mobile at the time but in areas with such hard water it's quite common for people to have a water softener, without it their plumbing lasts almost no time. When they have a water softener, it's quite common to have an unsoftened tap for drinking water. If there is another tap that's direct from the water softener (not from the hot tank), then they would be better off using that to fill the Osmio, as the membrane back washes better with softened water. The carbon filter may still prematurely block though, and they might get away with replacing that every other change rather than both filters..

So @Blue_CafeI have been polite and helpful...please, entertain the possibility that your knowledge may be quite limited in some areas. I presume Osmio owners who read this will actually add their 3 hapence worth.


----------



## mctrials23

In my mind, descaling a kettle is an easy procedure. You fill it with a solution and you can see if that solution is strong enough and has done the job. In a coffee machine your are essentially putting a strong chemical into a complex set of pipes and boilers and asking it to find all the scale, immerse that scale in the solution, break it down and then flush that all out without causing any issues with residue or bits of scale blocking anything.

You then have to run a lot of clean water through the whole thing to try and remove any trace of it. I did it on the Minima a few times and each time it took me a few hours to do it.

The other option is to put water into your machine that doesn't cause any noticeable scale and avoid all this faff and time spent.

Consider why good cafes all use RO systems to treat the water that goes into their machines. They are expensive to run compared to just doing a descale every 3 months for a cafe so why don't they just do that if its easy and effective?

I'm not going to lie, if I had a £200 espresso machine I wouldn't bother. I would descale it once a year and when it broke I would get a new one. As I have a machine that is worth a few thousand, I don't want to worry about that breaking or needing to be replaced in the next 10 years. I also don't want to waste days of my life over that timespan keeping on top of a descale routine.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

DavecUK said:


> Look I've nothing against you, I was polite about the "brass spanners", I read with dismay your comments about @MrShades(who I don't know and have no connection with) and your many other comments.
> 
> I appreciate everyone needs to learn. The problem with not knowing enough is the, "you don't know what you don't know" issue. This leads to advice which is sub optimal. That normally wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that people on here have spent a lot of money on their machines and "might" follow your advice. Poor water quality is the cause of 95% of machine problems that are not due to a component reaching the end of it's expected life, descaling can itself introduce problems. Descaling is the cost of failure and should be avoided in favour of better water.
> 
> You have not even asked the right questions of the other person @ChilledMatt. I was on my mobile at the time but in areas with such hard water it's quite common for people to have a water softener, without it their plumbing lasts almost no time. When they have a water softener, it's quite common to have an unsoftened tap for drinking water. If there is another tap that's direct from the water softener (not from the hot tank), then they would be better off using that to fill the Osmio, as the membrane back washes better with softened water. The carbon filter may still prematurely block though, and they might get away with replacing that every other change rather than both filters..
> 
> So @Blue_CafeI have been polite and helpful...please, entertain the possibility that your knowledge may be quite limited in some areas. I presume Osmio owners who read this will actually add their 3 hapence worth.


 Yikes.

There's a Sunday morning post caffeine reply.

My comments are regarding his concern about the environment.

Fitting a RO system to get 50ml of coffee in a morning isn't environmentally friendly.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Blue_Cafe Average house uses approx 127,385 litres per year.
> 
> Largest size BWT under sink does about 3,335 litres at my water hardness to espresso machine standard and costs £300.
> 
> Whole house systems I would expect to be different and produce water of a non espresso machine standard. Reckon you would still need to do something else even with a full house system.


 Sounds right.

You tune the system to suit I suppose.

I'm lucky. My water hardness is <0


----------



## DavecUK

Blue_Cafe said:


> Yikes.
> 
> There's a Sunday morning post caffeine reply.
> 
> My comments are regarding his concern about the environment.
> 
> Fitting a RO system to get 50ml of coffee in a morning isn't environmentally friendly.


 What about the Americanos, cups of tea, drinking water. 16 litres per day of RO is produced by ours. You really need to broaden your scope beyond what you might use it for.

Please try and learn from my post.


----------



## ChilledMatt

DavecUK said:


> What about the Americanos, cups of tea, drinking water. 16 litres per day of RO is produced by ours. You really need to broaden your scope beyond what you might use it for.
> 
> Please try and learn from my post.


I'm getting through 6l of Ashbeck on a typical day, sometimes more. Also I really like the idea of an instant kettle.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe

DavecUK said:


> What about the Americanos, cups of tea, drinking water. 16 litres per day of RO is produced by ours. You really need to broaden your scope beyond what you might use it for.
> 
> Please try and learn from my post.


 Not sure of why you are being aggressive.

I read all posts with interest and answer genuinely.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

ChilledMatt said:


> I'm getting through 6l of Ashbeck on a typical day, sometimes more. Also I really like the idea of an instant kettle.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 6L?

6x360 2000l/a then?

That's enough for a built in system no?


----------



## Jony

ChilledMatt said:


> I'm getting through 6l of Ashbeck on a typical day, sometimes more. Also I really like the idea of an instant kettle.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 Just get the osmio, will be far better for you.


----------



## ChilledMatt

Blue_Cafe said:


> 6L?
> 6x360 2000l/a then?
> 
> That's enough for a built in system no?


I was under the impression built in systems waste massive quantities of water.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## AndyDClements

@Chilledmatt I'm also in Norfolk, and now have an Osmio Zero, so you can base the impacts etc on my figures if you wish.

I used to use a Britta jug with genuine cartridges, and also tried a under-the-sink filter system that claimed to be more effective than Britta. From use of the Osmio it seems we are drinking c7litres of water per day, so I'm assuming that's roughly the same usage for when I had a Britta jug. That Britta was claimed to be good for 28 days, yet I knew that the first week the kettle would stay limescale-free, week two it would visibly cloud the base of the kettle, by week three to four it was almost the same as out of the tap. The under-the-sink option didn't seem as good and I tried a couple of options but not BWT.

If I had a normal plumbed-in RO system I guess that 21l of water would be sent to the drain (I think it's something like- use 4l to produce 1l with 3l sent to waste) but perhaps that would be worse for my water is "aggressively hard" where your water is better than mine. With the Osmio, I'm getting the replenish notice at c 1.5l left in the tank which must be based on the concentration of nasties not the level of water. So for me a plumbed-in system would seemingly use 28l/day vs the 10l/day of the Osmio Zero, 18l/day worse than Osmio Zero, your figures may not be as bad as mine given the water quality. 18l x365 days an additional 6600l of water down the drain per year , actually not even the 7l/day goes down the drain as I tend to water the pot plants outside or put it in the water butt ready for doing that. So a plumbed-in system would not be great for the environment based on that, and at c£10/1000 litres (I think it;s actually £5 for the water and £5 for the waste handling per 1000 litres) I make it to mean a plumbed-in system would be costing an extra £60 per year in water, which effectively pays for the extra filter change per year (6 months on the Zero, vs 12months on the plumbed-in Osmio change cycle using pretty much the same filter set).

Ashbeck water @ £1.10 for 5l, would be roughly £1.50 per day for me, c£550 per year, so the additional cost of tap water, filters and purchase of the Osmio Zero, all covered by teh cost of Tesco water, let alone the environmental impact of 500x single use plastic bottles being made and transported.


----------



## Blue_Cafe

ChilledMatt said:


> I was under the impression built in systems waste massive quantities of water.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 RO systems are notorious for it and it's one of the reasons I don't think they suit domestic installation.

However you do it, moving from bulk hard water to soft water isn't going to be easy. (Which is why, for a coffee machine a filter jug and descaling regime seems a better option to me)


----------



## DavecUK

Blue_Cafe said:


> Not sure of why you are being aggressive.
> 
> I read all posts with interest and answer genuinely.


 I'm not and I'm not suggesting for a minute that your answers are duplicitous...just unknowingly incorrect..


----------



## Blue_Cafe

DavecUK said:


> I'm not and I'm not suggesting for a minute that your answers are duplicitous...just unknowingly incorrect..


 I'm cool with that.

Every day is a school day


----------



## Mark70

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Blue_Cafe - Wish it was good enough, I descale my Mara every 6 months and it is always a pain. I have used jug and in tank filters, it helps but still causes a lot of build up and it's a faff with the litres and litres of rinsing needed to fully flush the HX boiler via the HW tap. The whole descaling procedure isn't great for your machine longevity either.
> 
> I will be getting an under sink BWT v sized filter fitted very soon, from theirs specs and my water hardness each one should hopefully last a year. Really crossing my fingers it moves the descaling interval to 12 or even 24 months. 🤞
> 
> I would have gotten an Osmio if we had a bigger kitchen, but couldn't justify it since acquiring a massive grinder and coffee machine which is big by "non-enthusiast" standards.


 I am in the same position not enough room for the Osmio so I put in the BWT system under the sink about 3 months ago It only feeds my hot water tap and a tap to draw off water for my Mara although I have not used it yet for the Mara as I had loads of bottled water

We are using 17 ltrs per day as the boiling water tap also supplies the hot water for the kitchen.

My water in Yorkshire is around 22 degrees hardness from memory and the filter on day one reduced this to 3. BWT estimated the filter would go 800 Ltrs and testing at at that point the hardness had increased to 5 so I'm still using it

Overall I'm delighted with the system. I bought a kit from eBay comprising of the filter (think it's the V) ,the flow meter and head for £99. Badged as AEG The only difference I can tell is the head does not have the adjustable bypass but given my water hardness it did not matter


----------



## ChilledMatt

@AndyDClements thanks that's really helpful.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## ZiggyMarley

for anyone interested - one space left in Round 10 of Osmio Zero group buy

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53369-osmio-zero-round-10/?do=embed


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## AndyDClements

My Brother & Sister in Law dropped by yesterday, had a cup of tea. My brother commented that the improvement in taste of the tea was noticeable. I'll take that to mean he approves of the Osmio.


----------



## caipiao

Great article / review Dave! 
now looking to get an Osmio Zero!


----------



## DavecUK

Well some interesting stats from my water bill just landed. In my review of the unit I talked about 20 litres down the drain for every 4 litres of RO water made...this is because of the specific way pumped under counter systems with a storage tank work. We use as a family of 5 from 16 to 20 litres of RO water per day. The evidence is here as our usage is quite consistent dark green is the same period in 2019, light green is this year. The difference is approximately 3200 litres per month. Most of that because the Osmio Zero replaced my under counter tanked unit at the beginning of January. The saving is slightly more than £80 per year. which is good value just for changing the system.









With the filters lasting me a year and the savings more than covering the cost of filters, it makes me happy to think all that clean water isn't being wasted by going down the drain. I used to buy a new under counter unit every 3 years (plus membranes and filters on an ongoing basis), so overall for me the TCO (based on the Zero lasting 5 years) would be fairly neutral. It might cost a little more overall perhaps but there is a lot of convenience there.


----------



## slammy

Thanks for taking the time to do this write up Dave, and following up - Love a good bar chart 😁

I've just bought my first home and have been looking into water systems, and this may just be the answer!!

I noticed that Osmio also have a Fusion version which plugs into main water supply, I emailed them to check if it was possible to capture the waste water, as your article has highlighted just how much the other systems dispose of, they said it was possible, probably not the neatest set up, but I'm considering it as a half way for convenience (being lazy and not having to top up the tank, also if i have other people using it they won't have to deal with changing out the tank).

Still deciding.. anyway thank you again for your reporting, you have opened a blackhole for me though as now I am also interested in their vit c shower🙈.... will search for other posts in the non-coffee section to see if anyone has reviewed it.


----------



## DavecUK

slammy said:


> Thanks for taking the time to do this write up Dave, and following up - Love a good bar chart 😁
> 
> I've just bought my first home and have been looking into water systems, and this may just be the answer!!
> 
> I noticed that Osmio also have a Fusion version which plugs into main water supply, I emailed them to check if it was possible to capture the waste water, as your article has highlighted just how much the other systems dispose of, they said it was possible, probably not the neatest set up, but I'm considering it as a half way for convenience (being lazy and not having to top up the tank, also if i have other people using it they won't have to deal with changing out the tank).
> 
> Still deciding.. anyway thank you again for your reporting, you have opened a blackhole for me though as now I am also interested in their vit c shower🙈.... will search for other posts in the non-coffee section to see if anyone has reviewed it.


 I would really recommend the counter top version, filling the tank is no biggie, even my daughter can do it, she can't turn a light off, but filling the tank....no problem. As long as the Osmio has been completely emptied and absolutely will not produce any water. The beeping long before that happens, she can and does totally ignore.


----------



## slammy

DavecUK said:


> I would really recommend the counter top version, filling the tank is no biggie, even my daughter can do it, she can't turn a light off, but filling the tank....no problem. As long as the Osmio has been completely emptied and absolutely will not produce any water. The beeping long before that happens, she can and does totally ignore.


 Hahaha i am indeed like a child!

Is it because, even with being able to store the waste water, the other issue with connection to mains is just that? connecting directly to the pipes i guess gives reduced control of the water quality? Even if it is going through a similar filtering system as the Zero, there will alway be an increase in contamination direct from pipe?


----------



## DavecUK

slammy said:


> Hahaha i am indeed like a child!
> 
> Is it because, even with being able to store the waste water, the other issue with connection to mains is just that? connecting directly to the pipes i guess gives reduced control of the water quality? Even if it is going through a similar filtering system as the Zero, there will alway be an increase in contamination direct from pipe?


 Not really, it's if you have a problem, you can only leak 5 litres onto the floor.


----------



## slammy

DavecUK said:


> Not really, it's if you have a problem, you can only leak 5 litres onto the floor.


 Ah yes, good point! Ok Zero it is, thanks for your replies


----------



## tj893

I'm considering getting one of these but would need to put it in a cupboard of sorts so have limited clearance above and no option of improving this by swivelling it- would anyone be willing to take a measurement for me? It's basically the total height from the bottom of the machine when the reservoir lid is open as per the attached image from one of Dave's videos (thanks Dave).

Any assistance much appreciated, and thanks in advance!


----------



## Jason11

Will do when I get home if no-one else gives you the measurement first 

Just a question though, if you can't swivel the unit and height is an issue how will you be able to remove the filler tank every time to empty/refill?


----------



## tj893

Jason11 said:


> Will do when I get home if no-one else gives you the measurement first
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just a question though, if you can't swivel the unit and height is an issue how will you be able to remove the filler tank every time to empty/refill?


 Thanks Jason that's kind! As for your question - I had assumed that if I have clearance for the lid when opened, then that would be enough headspace for the tank to be removed/replaced if it's lifted up to disengage and then moved horizontally... If that description makes sense does it sound about right?


----------



## ratty

.



tj893 said:


> I'm considering getting one of these but would need to put it in a cupboard of sorts so have limited clearance above and no option of improving this by swivelling it- would anyone be willing to take a measurement for me? It's basically the total height from the bottom of the machine when the reservoir lid is open as per the attached image from one of Dave's videos (thanks Dave).
> 
> Any assistance much appreciated, and thanks in advance!


 It's 540mm tall when the lid is opened and upright, I just measured it from the worktop to the highest lid opening point


----------



## tj893

ratty said:


> .
> 
> It's 540mm tall when the lid is opened and upright, I just measured it from the worktop to the highest lid opening point


 Excellent thanks alot- I have 550mm clearance so it's close but seems possible that I'll be able to open the lid and deal with the tank.


----------



## Jason11

tj893 said:


> Thanks Jason that's kind! As for your question - I had assumed that if I have clearance for the lid when opened, then that would be enough headspace for the tank to be removed/replaced if it's lifted up to disengage and then moved horizontally... If that description makes sense does it sound about right?


I see. I was thinking you didn't have much side access to it when you said you couldn't swivel the unit. Yes the tank doesn't need lifting very far to remove (lots lower than the overall height with the lid open)


----------



## olivier

Should soon be joining the ranks of Osmio owners. Will be good to be cutting down on plasitc bottles consumptions, and (hopefully) have less nasty-tasting water to drink.

I was wondering, has anyone found a bottle/jug with a decent (>= 1 liter) capacity that fits on the tray to fill it unattended?


----------



## hotmetal

Not quite but I use a sodastream bottle which is about 850ml (to line) and about 1l I think. Fits great and I can lie it flat in the fridge for chilled drinking water. Not quite big enough to do an unattended fill though, at least, I think it overflowed once. IIRC the Osmio 'long press' is 30 sec timed rather than a given quantity (litre?) And sometimes I do a short press to get it going, followed by a long one, which may account for the overflow.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## iroko

I use this Addis 1.5lt.


----------



## AndyDClements

You're only going to get c1/4 l out at a time, so you could just have two 1/2l bottles or other combinations.


----------



## DavecUK

iroko said:


> I use this Addis 1.5lt.
> 
> View attachment 44987


 I have exactly the same jug, in fact I have 2 of them...the one where the lid turns around to open the pouring hole.


----------



## tj893

AndyDClements said:


> You're only going to get c1/4 l out at a time, so you could just have two 1/2l bottles or other combinations.


 I'm currently trialing a zerowater jug but the osmio remains a possibility at some point - can I just check, does this mean that because of the RO internal tank you can basically draw 1/4L at once and then wait a little while before doing the same? Any idea of rough time before it refills? Apologies if I've missed this info somewhere in the thread.


----------



## hotmetal

One short press gives you approx 250ml. Internal RO tank holds about 1l. You can get over 1l before having to wait for your next water. Once it stops flashing you can get another 250ml but you'll need to walt maybe a couple of minutes or so before you can hear the pump stop and get a 2nd litre.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## tj893

hotmetal said:


> One short press gives you approx 250ml. Internal RO tank holds about 1l. You can get over 1l before having to wait for your next water. Once it stops flashing you can get another 250ml but you'll need to walt maybe a couple of minutes or so before you can hear the pump stop and get a 2nd litre.
> 
> ___
> Eat, drink and be merry


 Excellent, thanks - sounds more than adequately quick! I had misunderstood the button press = 1/4L versus a limitation on the internal storage.


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## Gunder

Was thinking of getting one of these to feed my new Appartamento safe water. I don't mind descaling my kettle occasionally, but really don't want to be doing that for my espresso machine. How have people been finding light roasts with water from this machine? My tap water tastes really nice already, so I'd only really be using it for prevention of limescale, and I'd hate to end up with water from this tasting worse than my tap water.

I usually make pour-overs and the occasional espresso shot or latte, almost always light roasts.


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## Gunder

Gunder said:


> Was thinking of getting one of these to feed my new Appartamento safe water. I don't mind descaling my kettle occasionally, but really don't want to be doing that for my espresso machine. How have people been finding light roasts with water from this machine? My tap water tastes really nice already, so I'd only really be using it for prevention of limescale, and I'd hate to end up with water from this tasting worse than my tap water.
> 
> I usually make pour-overs and the occasional espresso shot or latte, almost always light roasts.


 Actually, ignore all this. After doing some digging on my local water quality. It seems like it wouldn't benefit from the Osmio, as limescale just doesn't seem to be an issue in Glasgow.


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## hotmetal

Yeah you're probably one of the lucky ones to live in an area with palatable soft water. No need for an Osmio. For me, it's a life saver though. Down here (Thames valley) the water tastes rough from the tap and is hard as nails. From the Osmio it's boiler safe, makes tasty coffee from light roasts, and tastes much nicer as just water.


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## DavecUK

My own *personal* view. The Osmio removes hardness as one part of it's function, but as an RO system, it's also removing other things I don't want in my water. Chlorine, Fluoride, debris and other contaminants. So even though an Osmio might do more than you need...it's definitely worth considering some sort of polishing filter to remove chlorine, flouride, microplastics etc.. e.g. the right type of filter jug.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluoride-Water-Filter/s?k=Fluoride+Water+Filter


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## Gunder

Yeah, that's my next step. I just need to work out what sort of filter I would benefit the most from.


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## AndyDClements

I just found a new use for Osmio Zero, driven by necessity.

I fancied a drink, and ruled out several options, had the Longmorn 16yr old in the glass before realising I had no bottled water. It works well.


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## Gunder

One other question I have about this machine: Is it possible for it to produce pure RO water, ie not using the remineralisation cartridge? I was considering it as a possible dispenser for mixing with something like Third Wave Water, or my own mix of minerals.


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## Jason11

Gunder said:


> One other question I have about this machine: Is it possible for it to produce pure RO water, ie not using the remineralisation cartridge? I was considering it as a possible dispenser for mixing with something like Third Wave Water, or my own mix of minerals.


It can be used without the cartridge yes. As mine didn't come with one installed which I hadn't realised and was using it for 2 months without one. I didn't test the water so don't know how pure it was without the cartridge but my understanding is RO doesn't give you pure water like distilling does.


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## hotmetal

I think they now sell a 'blank' remineralisation cartridge. The 'live' one adds about 30 tds of Ca and Mg (from memory). Overall, without the remineralisation cartridge (or with the blank) the system removes 90-93% of whatever's in the source water. So 250ppm water becomes roughly 20ppm. Its not quite 'pure' like distilled water. Distilled water of course isn't good for making coffee. But you definitely can use the Osmio with a blank cartridge and do your own bespoke remineralisation. I think Dave covered that in the review, but he just put in a tiny amount of sodium bicarbonate.


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## DavecUK

You can also use an Old remineralisation cartrige that is exhausted...just soak it in steriliser at the end of it's life, then in clean water and away you go again.


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## MediumRoastSteam

hotmetal said:


> I think they now sell a 'blank' remineralisation cartridge. The 'live' one adds about 30 tds of Ca and Mg (from memory). Overall, without the remineralisation cartridge (or with the blank) the system removes 90-93% of whatever's in the source water. So 250ppm water becomes roughly 20ppm. Its not quite 'pure' like distilled water. Distilled water of course isn't good for making coffee. But you definitely can use the Osmio with a blank cartridge and do your own bespoke remineralisation. I think Dave covered that in the review, but he just put in a tiny amount of sodium bicarbonate.


 I use distilled water, and add a 100mg of sodium bicarbonate for 1 Litre of water. Works wonders, for me at least. However, it's a very time consuming and inefficient way of "making" water. On my distiller, it takes about 5 hours to distil 3 litres. So, there's always some planning involved. If I had the space and people in my household would also drink from the Osmio, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Life is not always that simple of course.


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## TomHughes

DavecUK said:


> My own *personal* view. The Osmio removes hardness as one part of it's function, but as an RO system, it's also removing other things I don't want in my water. Chlorine, Fluoride, debris and other contaminants. So even though an Osmio might do more than you need...it's definitely worth considering some sort of polishing filter to remove chlorine, flouride, microplastics etc.. e.g. the right type of filter jug.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fluoride-Water-Filter/s?k=Fluoride+Water+Filter


 I agree.

I honestly can't drink our tap water now as it tastes like a swimming pool!


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## thbreith

After I received my new Lelit Elizabeth I am considering which system to use to minimise scale build up in the machine while still having good water for the lighter roasts from aeropress or v60. The water where I live is very hard (Yorkshire water 14deg, 140mg/l Ca, 5.5mg/l Mg, 350mg/l CaCO3). I have used Brita filters in the past and recently switched to BWT cartridges ('BWT soft filtered water extra') as they were recommended by my local roaster who also uses an installed BWT system. After one week of use of a BWT cartridge filtered water hardness increased from 120ppm (first measurement) to something between 250 and 425ppm on my water test kit. Not sure if a BWT under counter system such as BWT bestmax premium would be better. Bella barista also recommended BWT. But they are biased since they sell BWT. Has anybody had experiences with both? After reading DavecUK's review (thanks so much Dave for all your amazing work!!!) and some of this thread I am tending towards Osmio zero but not sure if BWT would perhaps give better tasting water for aeropress or V60 coffee. BTW  I am NOT particularly fond of the taste of unfiltered Yorkshire water. Many thanks!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## thbreith

thbreith said:


> After I received my new Lelit Elizabeth I am considering which system to use to minimise scale build up in the machine while still having good water for the lighter roasts from aeropress or v60. The water where I live is very hard (Yorkshire water 14deg, 140mg/l Ca, 5.5mg/l Mg, 350mg/l CaCO3). I have used Brita filters in the past and recently switched to BWT cartridges ('BWT soft filtered water extra') as they were recommended by my local roaster who also uses an installed BWT system. After one week of use of a BWT cartridge filtered water hardness increased from 120ppm (first measurement) to something between 250 and 425ppm on my water test kit. Not sure if a BWT under counter system such as BWT bestmax premium would be better. Bella barista also recommended BWT. But they are biased since they sell BWT. Has anybody had experiences with both? After reading DavecUK's review (thanks so much Dave for all your amazing work!!!) and some of this thread I am tending towards Osmio zero but not sure if BWT would perhaps give better tasting water for aeropress or V60 coffee. BTW  I am NOT particularly fond of the taste of unfiltered Yorkshire water. Many thanks!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I found no additional info on the benefits of the BWT bestmax premium system but instead found the new Osmio zero 333 offer in the Sales and Wanted section. That's a great deal and replaces the group buys offer for the Osmio. Fortunately, I could persuade my wife to support this additional investment and to free up some more space in our small kitchen. She also does not like the tap water here. I hope we will like the taste of the RO water. I'll take the plunge as so many users appear to be happy with it. I might add some carbonate as Dave C suggested in his review to increase the pH. Just wonder about the easiest way to do it. I am considering to pre-weigh little 0.16g portions ready to be added to 2l of RO water (I do have access to a fine scale) unless there is a better solution. Does anybody have better tips on this?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## The Systemic Kid

"For an espresso machine take a business card, cut a strip 5mm wide. Bend the last 5mm at 90 degrees to make a little scoop, add 1 scoop of bicarb every 2 litres if you want. This tiny amount, can for some, improve extraction and taste. It also eliminates any minor aggressiveness to copper boilers."

Advice courtesy DaveC.


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## thbreith

The Systemic Kid said:


> _"For an espresso machine take a business card, cut a strip 5mm wide. Bend the last 5mm at 90 degrees to make a little scoop, add 1 scoop of bicarb every 2 litres if you want. This tiny amount, can for some, improve extraction and taste. It also eliminates any minor aggressiveness to copper boilers."_
> Advice courtesy DaveC.


Great. Many thanks for this, systemic kid. That will make things easier. I did read this a while ago but completely forgot about this great piece of advice.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

The Systemic Kid said:


> "For an espresso machine take a business card, cut a strip 5mm wide. Bend the last 5mm at 90 degrees to make a little scoop, add 1 scoop of bicarb every 2 litres if you want. This tiny amount, can for some, improve extraction and taste. It also eliminates any minor aggressiveness to copper boilers."
> 
> Advice courtesy DaveC.


 I've tried this myself. And, the software engineer in me wanted to double check, so I bought a 1/100th gram precision scale off ebay for under £20.

The business card trick works wonders. 👍



thbreith said:


> I found no additional info on the benefits of the BWT bestmax premium system but instead found the new Osmio zero 333 offer in the Sales and Wanted section. That's a great deal and replaces the group buys offer for the Osmio. Fortunately, I could persuade my wife to support this additional investment and to free up some more space in our small kitchen. She also does not like the tap water here. I hope we will like the taste of the RO water. I'll take the plunge as so many users appear to be happy with it. I might add some carbonate as Dave C suggested in his review to increase the pH. Just wonder about the easiest way to do it. I am considering to pre-weigh little 0.16g portions ready to be added to 2l of RO water (I do have access to a fine scale) unless there is a better solution. Does anybody have better tips on this?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 I make a concentrate solution by:

Adding 400mg (0.40g) of sodium bicarbonate to 40ml of water. I usually make 3L of water, so that works for me nicely.
Add 10ml per litre of distilled water to get a concentration of 100mg/L approx. (If you really want to get that concentration, add 10ml of the concentrate to 990ml of distilled water - I found there's more to life than that. 😉)

that gives me a TDS of approx 54-60 ppm when measured with a TDS meter.


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## thbreith

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I make a concentrate solution by:
> Adding 400mg (0.40g) of sodium bicarbonate to 40ml of water. I usually make 3L of water, so that works for me nicely.
> Add 10ml per litre of distilled water to get a concentration of 100mg/L approx. (If you really want to get that concentration, add 10ml of the concentrate to 990ml of distilled water - I found there's more to life than that. )
> that gives me a TDS of approx 54-60 ppm when measured with a TDS meter.


Many thanks for the additional advice, MRS. I think I will play with both methods (credit card and concentrate solution) to see what works better with my workflow (which still needs to be established). This is all new to me. I also followed your previous piece of advice and ordered a Motta 58.4mm competition tamper as I am not completely happy with the combination of Niche zero cup and Motto 58mm leveller. I am really enjoying this forum. Already learned a lot.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Gunder

Can one of the Osmio owners tell me how long it takes the machine to dispense 2 litres of room temperature water? I understand the internal tank only stores 1.5 litres, so I'm wondering what the dispensing time would be including waiting for it to refill the tank.


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## ChilledMatt

Gunder said:


> Can one of the Osmio owners tell me how long it takes the machine to dispense 2 litres of room temperature water? I understand the internal tank only stores 1.5 litres, so I'm wondering what the dispensing time would be including waiting for it to refill the tank.


I've not timed it but would estimate somewhere in the region of 15 minutes.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

About 5m, I'll try it later.


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## hotmetal

Ok I just tried it. 
The first litre was dispensed in one minute. 
Another press got me 250ml. It then started filtering/refilling. I was able to get another 250ml (so 1.5 litres) at the 3 minute mark. I then needed to wait again for a couple more minutes to get that last half litre. In total, one litre in one minute but 6 minutes 30 sec to get to 2l because it takes 5 minutes to refill.


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## Gunder

Thanks for the info!


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## Conchur

Has anyone had electrical problems with the Osmio Zero RO machine? We bought ours in June 2019 (17 months now) and it's been fine up to a few weeks ago. Recently it started to intermittently switch back to cold water when it's supposed to be dispensing 100C water. Sometimes when dispensing cold water, the 100C red light starts flashing. It has also started to overfill cups etc., i.e. not dispensing the same amount of 100C water each time.


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## DavecUK

You could try resetting it, but first contact Osmio, it's still under warranty (3 years I think)..


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## Conchur

Thanks Dave. I did re-set it, but the problem is still there from time to time. I contacted Osmio but they are looking for a video of the problem, which is hard to capture when you don't know when it's going to happen !


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## Mark Osmio

Conchur said:


> Thanks Dave. I did re-set it, but the problem is still there from time to time. I contacted Osmio but they are looking for a video of the problem, which is hard to capture when you don't know when it's going to happen !


 It could be because it is programmed to not dispense hot water unless there is a minimum of 500ml in the pure water internal tank, to prevent any dry boiling. Or it can be be behaving strangely if it is not directed plugged into the socket, if you used an extension cable. That's why we normally ask for videos, it helps to spot any problems like that.


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## Inspector

iroko said:


> Anybody having issues with the auto shut off and beep when It goes below 1 litre, mine just keeps sucking until I lift the lid up to stop the unit.
> 
> I've reset the unit a few times, It might work once or twice then goes back to sucking air until I lift the lid ?


 My unit did exactly same about 5 times in two months. It is releasing massive amount of air bubbles until i lift the lid up. So i was wondering if you have found a fix for this?


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## iroko

Inspector said:


> My unit did exactly same about 5 times in two months. It is releasing massive amount of air bubbles until i lift the lid up. So i was wondering if you have found a fix for this?


 I haven't had this issue since I changed the filters last year, I'm not sure If It was anything to do with the filters or just coincidence.


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## DavecUK

Not had it...perhaps it was the filters?


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## Mark Osmio

I know exactly what the problem is! It's because the sediment filter in the supply pitcher is not fully pressed on. You may need to support the supply pitcher from the bottom side and push it on with a twist all the way. Problem solved. It's possible it could loosen a bit over time so perhaps give it a periodic check when yoh clean the supply tank which in most of our cases should be more often. We are going to update the sanitisation kit soon to use the Osmio Sanser instead of Milton Tablets, which does a great job. Best wishes, Mark


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## Mark Osmio

Just thinking this through there could be two other possible reasons. First could be a somewhat blocking carbon block. To test if it is that, what you could do is take the carbon block off and give it a good shake. Then test how long it takes from the litre Mark to alarm replace water. When the carbon is getting scaled up the this can even take about 5 or 6 minutes before it alarms. It's normal for the system to get a bit noisier as it gets lower and more so bearing filter blockage. The second possible is an air lock. To clear that just twist the carbon and membrane filters off and put them straight back on. Best wishes, Mark


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## Inspector

Thanks Mark. I did the first suggestion of yours, if it does it again I will try the other suggestions.


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## DavecUK

I use a very small amount (smear) of molycote on the sediment filter, which aids seating and removal.


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## stassinari

I'm really interested in RO and the Osmio seems like the best, hands down.

But I can't help and feel a little hesitant when reading up on long term effect.

I understand the anecdotal evidence that some people bring and that is indeed important and somewhat reassuring (a good example is the forum's very own DaveC, whose review and videos I've read and watched in their entirety), but I find the lack of proper research very frustrating.

Have I missed something obvious?


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## Mark Osmio

I've heard this concern alot. In my own case if ro water was negative or stripping my body of minerals I'd have little left after 20 years. Rather than be a weak pile of bones I'm the healthiest 41 year old I know. And I know people who have drank distilled water now in their 80s for 40 years and they too are all good. Its the ones that didn't do it, have a closer look at them. Whoever wrote that about reverse osmosis clearly doesn't understand physiology and must be trying to sell something else.


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## hotmetal

I'm not sure I'd want *pure* RO water but the Osmio has a remineralisation cartridge, so you're removing all taint and machine-wrecking levels of minerals and putting back enough to make it safe for people and espresso machines, and also to aid good extraction of coffee.

That's just my understanding, and I'm no expert. However I'm happy that it's better for me and my machine compared to what comes out of the tap. Your minerals may vary, to paraphrase the Americans.

I can't point you in the direction of any peer-reviewed research mind you.


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## RobDGio

Don't know if this helps but working in hospitals, specifically intensive care over the years, plenty of patients have drunk distilled water. Not saying they were prescribed it or anything like that. But I'd take that as reassuringly safe to drink


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## DavecUK

When you drink from the airline drinking water tap on a plane, travel on a cruise ship, stay in some resorts, use the international space station, go on a 3 year round trip to Mars, have your water produced by a desalination plant (from seawater) and many others...you will have either RO or distilled water. I've used RO for 20 years, my kids have drunk nothing else.

The problem is the internet and it's ability to make statements that simply have no foundation.



> *Water* obtained from *RO* filtration process has a low pH value. Prolonged consumption of low pH *water* has adverse *health* effects such as increasing the risk of kidney disorders and gastrointestinal troubles.27 Sept 2019


 The above is of course complete cobblers and it's easy to prove. The pH of the human stomach is 2.4 to 3, the pH of RO water is at its lowest around 6.5 (roughly the same as milk). pH is a logarithmic scale. So 5.5 is 10 times more acidic than 6.5.... *This means that the Stomach environment 10,000 times more acidic than RO water. *

I'm not going to get into the specious minerals argument










...people have to make their own minds up about all of this stuff.


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## AliG

hotmetal said:


> I'm not sure I'd want *pure* RO water but the Osmio has a remineralisation cartridge, so you're removing all taint and machine-wrecking levels of minerals and putting back enough to make it safe for people and espresso machines, and also to aid good extraction of coffee.


 Isn't this the key point? Whether there are concerns about distilled water or not isn't entirely relevant as that's not what the osmio produces.


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## Mark Osmio

One key thing we consider far more important for health of you and your coffee machine is ORP, oxidation reduction potential, as opposed to pH which is really a useless measure. If you test the tap water vs Osmio Zero you will be a around 250 mv reduction in ORP which makes it slightly negative. That is what makes the water donate negative electrons to the body as opposed to stealing them. It is also what makes the water far less aggressive and corrosive. ORP is not the same as h2 content although the two measures are related. So in summary the water can be pure, even be acidic bu have a negative ORP and its the best way to condition the water for coffee machines.


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## stassinari

I apologise if I sounded like I don't trust the anecdotal evidence many people can bring in this forum, it is very valuable and it is helping in shaping up my own judgement about RO in general and the Osmio in particular.

I'm just venting my frustration at the lack of trustworthy sources/studies on the matter.



DavecUK said:


> people have to make their own minds up about all of this stuff.


 See that's my problem right there. If there were scientific papers that I could find or at least see quoted, it wouldn't be a matter of individuals making up their own mind, it would be an irrefutable fact that is true regardless of one's opinion.


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## cuprajake

So does the machine have some form of ozone generator in it to drop the orp of the water?


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## Mark Osmio

stassinari said:


> I apologise if I sounded like I don't trust the anecdotal evidence many people can bring in this forum, it is very valuable and it is helping in shaping up my own judgement about RO in general and the Osmio in particular.
> 
> I'm just venting my frustration at the lack of trustworthy sources/studies on the matter.
> 
> See that's my problem right there. If there were scientific papers that I could find or at least see quoted, it wouldn't be a matter of individuals making up their own mind, it would be an irrefutable fact that is true regardless of one's opinion.


 It would literally be impossible to design a study that has any scientific credibility at all to prove anything. If someone could design a credible study I would be interested to find out exactly what markers they would test and how these are controlled when there are possibly millions of variables


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## Michael87

Is it not simply possible to measure the chemical composition of water coming out of an RO unit, and compare that to acceptable/recommended drinking standards? I don't think anyone needs a separate study for Osmio water, but humans have surely done a huge amount of research on general water quality?

From even a very quick Google search there are tons of studies and WHO materials on standards. Calcium and Magnesium seem to be the most important, and the remineralisation cartridge seems to add those back in.

I suppose I did step back a little and ponder when the owner and review both refer to anecdotal evidence of its effect on themselves rather than citing studies. It seems like a fairly easy question to answer scientifically.


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## Mark Osmio

Best thing to do is interrogate what the who say, because if you do you'll find no studies or scientific basis. It's just what some Czech bloke wrote. The Who are advocates of water fluoridation so there has been a general slurr on products that take it out


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## TomHughes

My Osmio appears to be leaking internally. 
I keep finding pools of water underneath it, which has damaged the wooden worktop. 
I looked inside and the filters have beads of water on them. 
Any idea where it could be coming from?

I thought it was the seals on the water tank connection but they seem ok.


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## thbreith

Michael87 said:


> Is it not simply possible to measure the chemical composition of water coming out of an RO unit, and compare that to acceptable/recommended drinking standards? I don't think anyone needs a separate study for Osmio water, but humans have surely done a huge amount of research on general water quality?
> From even a very quick Google search there are tons of studies and WHO materials on standards. Calcium and Magnesium seem to be the most important, and the remineralisation cartridge seems to add those back in.
> I suppose I did step back a little and ponder when the owner and review both refer to anecdotal evidence of its effect on themselves rather than citing studies. It seems like a fairly easy question to answer scientifically.


I think you are making a very good point here and it is worthwhile having a discussion that goes beyond anecdotal evidence. I just had a google scholar search and came up with some interesting articles including an edited book of 2019 on minerals in water that appears to summarise the state of the art: https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783030180331
If you do a web search for it you can even find a free PDF of the whole book on researchgate. They do mention negative effects of RO water! It is worthwhile knowing these and mitigating these. I have an Osmio Zero system (and I really like it!) but I started adding a tiny pinch of Celtic sea salt to it each time to complement the minerals. I add bicarbonate to the water that I use for my dual boiler espresso machine. Here is the list of compounds of Celtic sea salt: http://www.curzio.com/N/Celtic_Sea_Salt1.htm


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## DavecUK

@thbreith All roads always lead to Rome and those old articles from Kosiak et al....

You get more minerals than you need from your diet and plenty of fluoride from your toothpaste which is why they only recommend a pea sized amount. The problem is a cogent discussion of the facts is not possible, as they don't exist. I can't prove RO water is not bad for you....in the same way the evidence is not there that it is. Millions and Millions of people drink it every day....so far there is nothing that proves a statistically significant causal link to health effects in humans.

My kids have drunk nothing else and neither have I for 20 years. If I die tomorrow, you might say.....well it's because he drank RO water (died with RO). I think it's got to be a personal choice. You either believe it is damaging or you don't.

Yes it will remove all the minerals from the water, including things like Chlorine, Organophosphates, Sediments, heavy metals etc.. You pays your money and takes your choice.


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## facboy

sometimes there are no (or few) scientific studies proving or disproving some hypothesis because no (or few) credible scientists believe the hypothesis worthy of study.

not saying that this necessarily falls into that category, but see eg Toxic Mould, Magnetic Limescale Removal.


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## stassinari

I mean you can find papers on the most ridiculous topics, I'm not sure (hope?) this is the case.

IMHO there are not millions of people drinking pure RO water in their homes, though. There are definitely millions drinking water that has been ROed, but then there have been some steps before drinking ie remineralisation.

For one anecdote that reassures you that nothing bad can happen, you can find another of someone that claim to have had a terrible reaction weeks/months after starting to drink RO water.

Bottom line for me, this lack of scientific insight is just very frustrating, it shouldn't be a belief, it should be a fact. It just makes me sad


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## thbreith

DavecUK said:


> @thbreith All roads always lead to Rome and those old articles from Kosiak et al....
> 
> You get more minerals than you need from your diet and plenty of fluoride from your toothpaste which is why they only recommend a pea sized amount. The problem is a cogent discussion of the facts is not possible, as they don't exist. I can't prove RO water is not bad for you....in the same way the evidence is not there that it is. Millions and Millions of people drink it every day....so far there is nothing that proves a statistically significant causal link to health effects in humans.
> 
> My kids have drunk nothing else and neither have I for 20 years. If I die tomorrow, you might say.....well it's because he drank RO water (died with RO). I think it's got to be a personal choice. You either believe it is damaging or you don't.
> 
> Yes it will remove all the minerals from the water, including things like Chlorine, Organophosphates, Sediments, heavy metals etc.. You pays your money and takes your choice.


 @DaveCUK The authors of that book say that reduced mineral intake, due to drinking de-mineralized water, is not automatically compensated by one's diet. Clearly, if you flush your body with lots of demineralised water your body fluid will be diluted and minerals will be drawn from the cells into the body fluid by osmosis. And you have to go to the toilet more often. If you don't drink much RO water there will be less of an effect.

I found another interesting review (not in any way connected to the disliked Kozisek) that highlights some of the health effects of non-supplemented RO water and even raises the possibility of a connection with cancer. This is published in a very respectable journal. Just saying that there are some studies around that are worth reading. This is an active research area should somebody in this forum be interested in this topic. And before eyebrows are raised with respect to the word cancer, the authors conclude that "there is currently no "smoking gun" evidence to suggest that desalinated water in itself can cause cancer directly in terms of inducing genetic mutations." Personally, I am really enjoying the Osmio Zero system and drink RO water every day - but I do supplement it with some minerals.

View attachment Nriagu et al 2016 Health effects of desalinated water.pdf


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## DavecUK

If you eat your veggies it's all good


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## InfamousTuba

The review was interesting enough, but it doesn't really show any evidence of these actual health effects and really only highlights the possible need for more research. The cancer links especially those with regards to the GCC data are also linked to many other factors like longer life expectancy, changing diets and lack of screening which would be factors that seem to be more important. And the cancer patient data mentions that a lot of ther drugs, treatments and types of cancer may be responsible not the water

I couldn't draw any good conclusions from their observations that didn't require research that hasn't yet been done so I will see if I can find anything else, but it doesn't seem to be an area of research with any hard evidence to cause any concern


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## AndyDClements

@thbreith surely that paper relates to people drinking water that is very different to what we get from the Osmio Zero etc. The desalinated water and other RO uses is very different to the water that goes through an RO process and is then in turn re-mineralised prior to being dispensed. I've not read much of it but the early sections seems to positions it's purpose as being related to large populations of certain areas relying on RO system such as arid parts of USA and middle eastern countries, that isn't the same water composition as most of this forum's user base would encounter.

To give an example of why I say the focus of the paper and the situation here are very different:

I haven't had a detailed analysis of my Osmio Zero output (each user would have different output depending on the different input) but it's TDS is around 100 which is not a direct conversion but means it's probably around 10 Degrees French. The tap water where I live is 39.3 degrees French, so roughly 4x the TDS of what I now drink. A person living in Birmingham (just a random place that's far away from me) would probably get tap water at c5 degrees French, so half the level of TDS that I get even after mine has been through an RO system. I don't know but would guess that even if I ran my Osmio Zero with an empty re-mineralisation block I would get water out with has more minerals than some parts of the UK get in their standard tap water. If the water I drink (or that I could drink if not re-mineralised in the Osmio Zero) were to be below the level of minerals that was good/ suitable then there are large parts of the UK that would be in a much worse state than I.


----------



## Mark Osmio

Look the issue has definitely been politicised because of the water fluoridation agenda. So any technology which deals with that has been smeared by with no evidence at all. There is no credible evidence in this book, I say that having not read it because there is no way a credible study can be designed around this, too many variables at play.

It's not difficult to understand. It may shock you to note that water does not hydrate you. Dehydration means a lack of hydrogen. We drink water to make stomach acids and provide lubrication to our waste system, but very little of it becomes metabolic water. Metabolic water that is made by hydrogen and oxygen combining in the body to make the water in the mitochondria. We make litres. Of hydrogen per day through the anaerobic fermentation of food in the colon. We breathe oxygen in the air through the lungs. So first understand what is the role of water, and its definitely not to provide minerals to the body. All you need to do is check your recommended daily intake of various minerals e.g. Zinc and find out how much you would nornally get from food vs water. So the miniscule amount of water, is that statistically relevant, I doubt it and I suppose over the last 13 years drinking it myself I might have ran into a problem or seen it happen to others? No. What bugs me is the audacity they have to put out such poorly done work, because of a political agenda. I was at Durham County Countil to argue against this vs Public Health England last year. They are claiming water fluoridation to be a strong public health initiative. Well go look up the 1974 Poisons Act. They are a utter disgrace of an organisation and should be investigated.


----------



## AndyDClements

@Mark Osmio , I don't disagree about theses studies, but on what basis are you stating that dehydration is a lack of Hydrogen? It's defined in the English Language roughly as a deficit of water from the body, there are then variations of that depending on the exact type of situation that is defined, but the word and its meanings are based around "Hydrate" rather than "Hydrogen" and so do relate to water/moisture / H2O rather than Hydrogen /H2.


----------



## Mark Osmio

Andy I've previous explained the basis. Again, we produce hydrogen through the anerobic fermentation of food it gets into the bloody through the wall of the colon. We breathe oxygen and thr two combine to form metabolic water. There are a few types of dehydration but all of them involve a lack.of hydrogen. How there is h2 and o in water but we don't break apart that much in the body as it requires more energy, instead we have a smart way of making water in the body and that's the water that actually gets deep. That's why a bit of tai chi and toga ia very good, get the oxygen deep and make the metabolic water there to hydrate the cells. Hydro or hydration meaning adapted to water but before that it was hydrogen!


----------



## stassinari

@Mark Osmio Interesting, I did not know about metabolic water. Turns out it's not that useful on its own.



> Metabolic water furnishes about 8-10% of the water needs of humans (Askew, 1996).


 https://www.nap.edu/read/9826/chapter/10#154


----------



## Mark Osmio

stassinari said:


> @Mark Osmio Interesting, I did not know about metabolic water. Turns out it's not that useful on its own.
> 
> https://www.nap.edu/read/9826/chapter/10#154


 Being 62% hydrogen by volume, I consider it more than useful but necessary and important, hydrogen is elemental and forms other compounds in the body, like it does helium through quantum tunnelling. To understand stable water clusters, you would need to read physics papers, it is not discussed in the medical world much yet.


----------



## AndyDClements

Sorry @Mark Osmio but that's not how the word De-hydration is defined in the English language. It is defined as a lack of water, your post . Yes, there is Hydrogen in water, and therefore the body lacks the amount of Hydrogen / is decreasing its content of Hydrogen, but De-Hydration is not defined at that. It is not what you posted, a lack of hydrogen.



Mark Osmio said:


> ......Dehydration means a lack of hydrogen. .....


----------



## Mark Osmio

The english language needs to evolve, so water is 2/3 hydrogen, and dehydration to me means a lack of hydrogen, and it became of because of dealing with alot of people who are dehydrated but do infact drink plenty of water, so it's an evolved understanding and open to learning more and new ideas on this subject, it's deep!


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## AndyDClements

By your logic de-hydration could be a lack of oxygen as it makes up 1/3 (well, weight for weight it makes up approximately 15/17ths of water). @Mark Osmio, simply you are are wrong, de-hydration is not , by definition in the English language, a lack of hydrogen. If you wish to change the word's meaning, then you'll have to start making your view the new majority view, so that would mean your view of its meaning is more common than that used by doctors etc.


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## Mark Osmio

AndyDClements said:


> By your logic de-hydration could be a lack of oxygen as it makes up 1/3 (well, weight for weight it makes up approximately 15/17ths of water). @Mark Osmio, simply you are are wrong, de-hydration is not , by definition in the English language, a lack of hydrogen. If you wish to change the word's meaning, then you'll have to start making your view the new majority view, so that would mean your view of its meaning is more common than that used by doctors etc.


 You're right it's too a lack of oxygen, that's why yoga is very good to get it deep into the joints and tissues. So real hydration is a lung and heart health function alongside a health gut function.


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## stassinari

What do "stable water clusters" have to do with drinking water now?

So you're saying that hydration is doing regular yoga and tai chi, and having healthy lungs, heart and gut, and not really drinking water?

And on top of this, health institutions (WHO, even the NHS) and academia all around the world are all colluding to keep the public from drinking RO water because...?

Oh dear.


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## cuprajake

ro water fine - rodi water not fine


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## Mark Osmio

stassinari said:


> What do "stable water clusters" have to do with drinking water now?
> 
> So you're saying that hydration is doing regular yoga and tai chi, and having healthy lungs, heart and gut, and not really drinking water?
> 
> And on top of this, health institutions (WHO, even the NHS) and academia all around the world are all colluding to keep the public from drinking RO water because...?
> 
> Oh dear.


 They don't actually yet appreciate water existing in more phases than solid, liquid and gas, there are stable water clusters, this has all been discovered by physicists and not medical people, so unfortunately yet you won't find any info about it from them.


----------



## -Mac

Does anyone else find the Osmio kicks out nearer 300ml from an auto-shot rather than the 250ml is states on the sticker on top of the machine?

EDIT: it's not a problem for me, just wondering if there's a way to set it.


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## AndyDClements

I get around 1.15 litres from 4 shots, so yes it's just shy of the 300ml per shot for me. Ditto, not a problem (the odd occasion I forget to stop it when filing a mug, could still be too much at 250ml).


----------



## Mark Osmio

-Mac said:


> Does anyone else find the Osmio kicks out nearer 300ml from an auto-shot rather than the 250ml is states on the sticker on top of the machine?
> 
> EDIT: it's not a problem for me, just wondering if there's a way to set it.


 You are right this recently changed and we have to update our manual and other versions have 250ml


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## TomHughes

RO is great for protecting our machines from scale. But let's not try and re-invent water shall we.


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## cuprajake

ro ? or rodi


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## DavecUK

Mine does 250ml


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## stassinari

@dfk41 I'm not sure where you're getting there. What do you think the IV fluids they use in the hospital are? Because as far as I know it will be your regular saline solution or very similar. Which is *drum roll* water with NaCL added.

Also hospitalisation for dehydration is rather extreme. Mild dehydration that doesn't require medical attention is, boringly, just "treated" with water.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/dehydration/

Not sure if NHS is considered legit though, your call. /s


----------



## stassinari

Oh, and to answer your question: yes, both cases are the same. How would they be different?


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## DavecUK

TomHughes said:


> RO is great for protecting our machines from scale. But let's not try and re-invent water shall we.


 Something I completely agree on...and what I tried to cover in the review. It's a personal choice if someone wants to drink it or not and whether you want all the other stuff that comes with H2O from the tap or a bottle etc..

It protects my machines, I don't often get problems and none of them scale related...the coffee tastes great and that's all I care about.


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## olivier

I'd go a bit further than the argument about protecting espresso machines from scale. Water composition affects taste as well, and for me, low ppm water tastes better than high ppm water for coffee (and I know that the breakdown of minerals in the water has an influence too, but I can't be bothered faffing around with pure RO and concentrates...).


----------



## TomHughes

olivier said:


> I'd go a bit further than the argument about protecting espresso machines from scale. Water composition affects taste as well, and for me, low ppm water tastes better than high ppm water for coffee (and I know that the breakdown of minerals in the water has an influence too, but I can't be bothered faffing around with pure RO and concentrates...).


 I certainly get more zing in my V60 from the RO water.


----------



## stassinari

Sure, taste should be paramount.

For me it's the opposite. I recently cupped the same beans with 5 different waters: Peak water, Third Wave Water, Barista Hustle recipe, Pavlis recipe and 0 ppm water (all except Peak had starting water filtered by ZeroWater).

My parter and I had different "winners" (for me it war TWW, she liked the Pavlis recipe more), but we agreed that the 0ppm water war just wrong.

Concentrates are a bit of a faff, though, but for the sake of my espresso machine it's a small price to pay compared to servicing it in the future.


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## cuprajake

Totally agree

Ive recently got a new machine, initially going ashbeck or longhill, settled on the palvis recipe

One its great for the machine and two it tastes good


----------



## _HH_

dfk41 said:


> Just remind me, when you go to hospital due to de-hydration, wha exactly do they do to you? Give you a glass and jug and say drink or connect you up to a drip? Sports people can become de-hydrated simply down to exercise, but an older person who is not in training for the Olympics can still become de-hydrated whilst in their house.....are both cases the same?


 If you're admitted to hospital due to dehydration it's gone beyond the 'drink a glass of water' stage. Most adults admitted with dehydration are dehydrated due to something else, and their dehydration is usually discovered whilst treating them for whatever else they've come in with.

tl,dr: you'll get a drip


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## gilesw

I've read that it's dangerous to drink RO water because of the minerals it removes. Do you just use it for putting water in your coffee machines?


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## Mark Osmio

gilesw said:


> I've read that it's dangerous to drink RO water because of the minerals it removes. Do you just use it for putting water in your coffee machines?


 The Osmio Zero uses reverse osmosis but also a remineralisation filter to act as a buffer and also to lower to ORP of the water. So when they refer to RO water on the internet, then it's not actually the same as RO with DI like is used in labs, schools, hospitals and recon rooms.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Osmio has a remineralisation cartridge fitted as well as the RO filters to put back those minerals the human body can absorb. I drink it regularly. IMO, it has a wonderfully clean taste free of any hint of taint.


----------



## DavecUK

gilesw said:


> I've read that it's dangerous to drink RO water because of the minerals it removes. Do you just use it for putting water in your coffee machines?


 I use it for all my drinking water, but of course, my diet contains far more minerals than my body needs....without requiring any supplements. You could always consult your GP if you are concerned about your own specific situation and the important minerals in your water..something I can't advise you on.

I use a Flouride toothpaste in the way advised by my dentist, so no worries for me there either.


----------



## Mark Osmio

DavecUK said:


> I use it for all my drinking water, but of course, my diet contains far more minerals than my body needs....without requiring any supplements. You could always consult your GP if you are concerned about your own specific situation and the important minerals in your water..something I can't advise you on.
> 
> I use a Flouride toothpaste in the way advised by my dentist, so no worries for me there either.


 Here a video I did about the remineralisation for some more info:


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Ordered Zero today!


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Thanks Jony!


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

My first impression is "Awesome". The best part is we do not have to warm up or boil the water anymore! Although I am used to drinking the sodiumized softened water, I thought the water from OZ left a little bit of sweet taste on my tongue. My wife could not differentiate the taste. I think, it will take us a while for us to really start appreciating and noticing the difference in taste. Thanks to those who helped with useful inputs.


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## Jony

Life changer isn't it😎


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Jony said:


> Life changer isn't it😎


 Absolutely! I do not know if this is a honeymoon period or otherwise, I never drank almost 1L of water within an hour unless it's beer! 😂

Thanks!


----------



## L2en

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> My first impression is "Awesome". The best part is we do not have to warm up or boil the water anymore! Although I am used to drinking the sodiumized softened water, I thought the water from OZ left a little bit of sweet taste on my tongue. My wife could not differentiate the taste. I think, it will take us a while for us to really start appreciating and noticing the difference in taste. Thanks to those who helped with useful inputs.
> 
> View attachment 53575


 I've recieved mine today too, absolutly loving it, the taste is great and not only in coffee😄 Due to illness I'm not drinking much coffee lately (typical, just after I got new machine), but the less coffee I drink the more pure water I need. Still, looking forward to use the water in Lizzy, eventually😒


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

L2en said:


> I've recieved mine today too, absolutly loving it, the taste is great and not only in coffee😄 Due to illness I'm not drinking much coffee lately (typical, just after I got new machine), but the less coffee I drink the more pure water I need. Still, looking forward to use the water in Lizzy, eventually😒


 Pleased😎

Get well soon!


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## DavecUK

@L2en get well soon


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

1) What's the ideal level to test the GH and KH on OZ please? After reading thru' the threads on this forum, I know the TDS level may vary. Does it matter if the water level in the pitcher is 5L, 3.5-4.0 L or 1.5 L?

2) Do we need to get all the water out, every time, from the internal water tank before dumping the last 1L, wash the pitcher and fill up with fresh 5L of water? I do not think this is required.

Thanks!


----------



## DavecUK

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> 1) What's the ideal level to test the GH and KH on OZ please? After reading thru' the threads on this forum, I know the TDS level may vary. Does it matter if the water level in the pitcher is 5L, 3.5-4.0 L or 1.5 L?
> 
> 2) Do we need to get all the water out, every time, from the internal water tank before dumping the last 1L, wash the pitcher and fill up with fresh 5L of water? I do not think this is required.
> 
> Thanks!


 1. TDS is fine, it varies because of minor reminerelisation variances for long and short water draw patterns. Also % rejection variance as TDS concentration increases in the supply pitcher.

2. No, but you must always empty the supply pitcher completely before refilling and don't ever top it off.

I sanitise, wash my supply pitcher weekly.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

DavecUK said:


> I sanitise, wash my supply pitcher weekly.


 Thx. Do you recommend flushing out 5L after the unit is sanitised (to ensure there are no residue left in the system) please ?


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## DavecUK

Only if you do a full sanitisation, if I'm just washing out the supply Pitcher, I wash it out, rinse it and I'm ready to go again.

I actually don't wash mine...I use a different method..


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

DavecUK said:


> I use a different method..


 Which is ....? Thx


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

I know the last 1L from the supply tank is emptied.

I have a question:

How do we draw out all the water from the unit - i.e. not just the last 1L from the supply pitcher but also from the internal tank? This is important especially when the unit is sanitised. I am a little lost if there will be water in the internal tank with a litre left in the supply pitcher.

Thanks!


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## DavecUK

You are only going to do that sort of sanitisation when you change the filters, sanitising just the supply pitcher doesn't need any of that. Just clean the supply pitcher weeky or every 10 days

If you want to empty the internal tank for any reason.


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## DavecUK

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Which is ....? Thx


 I spray my supply pitcher with a strong Milton solution, leaving the white fibre filter in place and just make sure all surfaces are wetted...leave for 15 minutes, then rinse with clean water.

P.S. I don't actually use MIlton I have a device that makes the same thing from salt water, got it for my birthday last May


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

DavecUK said:


> I have a device that makes the same thing from salt water, got it for my birthday last May


 Thank you @DavecUK. Both the posts are very useful. Appreciate it. Btw, I know what your 🎁 was! Have a good week end!


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

I checked the TDS of the OZ water after mineralisation. It varies between 60 and 80. Are the variation and the range normal please ?

The other one is the softened water > 300. Thanks!


----------



## Karka

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> I checked the TDS of the OZ water after mineralisation. It varies between 60 and 80. Are the variation and the range normal please ?
> 
> The other one is the softened water > 300. Thanks!
> 
> View attachment 53897
> 
> 
> View attachment 53898
> 
> 
> View attachment 53899


 Interesting. Mine is around 35 after OZ I believe


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## jonr2

just checked mine

c. 300 out of the tap

50 - 60 after Osmio


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Let me use the GH/KH drops and post.


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## olivier

I go from 330 out of the tap to 55 after going through Osmio, with the remineralisation cartrdige.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

olivier said:


> I go from 330 out of the tap to 55 after going through Osmio, with the remineralisation cartrdige.


 not far away then. I feed the machine with salt-blocks softened water.


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## Mark Osmio

Using softened water is generally fine with all reverse osmosis systems, but you must be aware that if you use a non electric twin tank version, when the tanks switch you get a bit of salty water come into the cold water, especially worse with models approaching 10 years and end of life, which can cause salt to get into the system which damages the membrane sheets. Salt water membranes are made from a different material to withstand it.


----------



## Inspector

Our tap water is 130ppm and OZ gives us 20 ppm with reminalizatiion cartridge in at the moment after 4 months of use.


----------



## -Mac

Inspector said:


> Our tap water is 130ppm and OZ gives us 20 ppm with reminalizatiion cartridge in at the moment after 4 months of use.


 Mine is very similar after 11 months.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Mark Osmio said:


> Using softened water is generally fine with all reverse osmosis systems, but you must be aware that if you use a non electric twin tank version, when the tanks switch you get a bit of salty water come into the cold water, especially worse with models approaching 10 years and end of life, which can cause salt to get into the system which damages the membrane sheets. Salt water membranes are made from a different material to withstand it.


 Frequent changes to the filter, I guess.

64-68 is the typical range, I get. I don't trust these cheap digital TDS. It's all the over place and I don't think this is a reliable and an important indicator any way. To test, how temperamental it is, I have loaded the supply pitcher with hard water cycle. I will verify and test this after changing the supply pitcher once again with hard water tomorrow. I am just curious.

This has been a life changer actually. It's been a week. We haven't taken out the kettle from the garage. We consume 8-10 l of water between 2 of us. Coffee and tea tastes better, while we feel a lot lighter these days. My wife, who was a skeptic when I had paid this large one-time outlay, has almost converted. She now thinks the water, which we were drinking earlier, was responsible for her stomach issues. She thinks that she is already feeling a lot better. Touch wood. Thank you for the great unit!!! 👍


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

GH/KH drop test readings:

I took 20 ml water for the tests.



GH, 20 ml, 2 drops to green, 35.8 / 4 = 8.95 ppm


KH , 20 ml, 6 drops to yellow, 107.4/4 = 26.85 ppm


----------



## Mark Osmio

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Frequent changes to the filter, I guess.
> 
> 64-68 is the typical range, I get. I don't trust these cheap digital TDS. It's all the over place and I don't think this is a reliable and an important indicator any way. To test, how temperamental it is, I have loaded the supply pitcher with hard water cycle. I will verify and test this after changing the supply pitcher once again with hard water tomorrow. I am just curious.
> 
> This has been a life changer actually. It's been a week. We haven't taken out the kettle from the garage. We consume 8-10 l of water between 2 of us. Coffee and tea tastes better, while we feel a lot lighter these days. My wife, who was a skeptic when I had paid this large one-time outlay, has almost converted. She now thinks the water, which we were drinking earlier, was responsible for her stomach issues. She thinks that she is already feeling a lot better. Touch wood. Thank you for the great unit!!! 👍


 That is great to hear! The Osmio Zero will obviously filter the wter for impurities but the really important thing too is the redox potential and the Osmio Zero will make your ORP slightly negative, which means the water is helpful now for donating negative electrons, the last time I tested it I had +250mv from the tap, and -15mv after the Zero, and after the Osmio Duo Hydrogen Bottle, the ORP is -550mv. This is one way you can provide the body with negative electrons, which is good.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Mark Osmio said:


> Osmio Zero will make your ORP slightly negative, which means the water is helpful now for donating negative electrons


 Pleased to hear. Thank you for your response Mark.


----------



## Ilias

Also quite happy with my osmio. My only complaint is that it takes a while (3-4 minutes) for the machine to realise that the water level is low (below the 1l mark), circulating air bubbles and making quite a lot of noise, untill the replace water led comes on and the pump stops.

But the water quality is fantastic.

With a cheap tds meter I measured:

- tap water 323ppm

-ozmio water 80ppm

For fun I also measured the 1l waste water, it measures 1370ppm. Lol.


----------



## AndyDClements

That noise might be the backwash

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51564-osmio-zero-group-buy-round-6/?do=embed&comment=744783&embedComment=744783&embedDo=findComment


----------



## 7877

So after reading all this thread and much more, I've bit the bullet and I'm joining the Osmio Zero club, should be with me tomorrow.

my water report from ST shows 12.56 degrees Clark, and "moderately hard", or that works out to about 179 mg/l in CaCO3. I am thinking that I will take the Osmio output with the mineral additives and just add a small amount of bicarbonate soda

my question is to you guys, are you bothering to measure TDS religiously or anything else on the output of the Osmio Zero? Is it really necessary to or are you just doing it out of interest? If so what TDS gadget are you using?

thanks 🙂


----------



## Jony

Just so you know, I've never added anything to my water. 👍👍.

Great to hear you got a Osmio


----------



## DavecUK

Ilias said:


> Also quite happy with my osmio. My only complaint is that it takes a while (3-4 minutes) for the machine to realise that the water level is low (below the 1l mark), circulating air bubbles and making quite a lot of noise, untill the replace water led comes on and the pump stops.
> 
> But the water quality is fantastic.
> 
> With a cheap tds meter I measured:
> 
> - tap water 323ppm
> 
> -ozmio water 80ppm
> 
> For fun I also measured the 1l waste water, it measures 1370ppm. Lol.


 The Osmio detects the water tank is empty by a drop in pressure from the pump (because water levels fallen below the inlet)....it gurgles whilst that is going on....as it's not instant, but a times process. It's no problem at all, by design.

The water in the pitcher gets stronger and stronger. as it's recirculated, this is what makes the Osmio much more water efficient than other RO systems, many orders of magnitude and much water not wasted. e.g. start of with 5 litres at 320 ppm (my water in summer) and you end up with 1 litre at 1300+ The membranes have a % rejection rate and so as the water becomes more concentrated, the % TDS of RO water consequently becomes a little higher.

It's why the pitcher must always be *completely* emptied before refilling and why the filters last, about 1 year for me and less for others..but this is a good thing. If people want to make their filters last much longer because they are in a super hard area with liquid chalk for water, they could simply empty and refill the supply pitcher at the 1.5 litre mark....which would make a HUGE difference....albeit at the cost of more water usage.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

DavecUK said:


> If people want to make their filters last much longer because they are in a super hard area with liquid chalk for water, they could simply empty and refill the supply pitcher at the 1.5 litre mark....which would make a HUGE difference....albeit at the cost of more water usage


 +1 to this.

I learnt from @DavecUK to completely empty the supply pitcher every time, give a quick wash and refill. We typically do not wait for the unit to display the "replace water" sign; We empty and refill when the water is between 1.25 and 1.5 l.

However, that waste water is never wasted. We use them for plants, cleaning, etc.


----------



## DavecUK

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> However, that waste water is never wasted. We use them for plants, cleaning, etc.


 Exactly....


----------



## Ilias

DavecUK said:


> The Osmio detects the water tank is empty by a drop in pressure from the pump (because water levels fallen below the inlet)....it gurgles whilst that is going on....as it's not instant, but a times process. It's no problem at all, by design.
> 
> The water in the pitcher gets stronger and stronger. as it's recirculated, this is what makes the Osmio much more water efficient than other RO systems, many orders of magnitude and much water not wasted. e.g. start of with 5 litres at 320 ppm (my water in summer) and you end up with 1 litre at 1300+ The membranes have a % rejection rate and so as the water becomes more concentrated, the % TDS of RO water consequently becomes a little higher.
> 
> It's why the pitcher must always be *completely* emptied before refilling and why the filters last, about 1 year for me and less for others..but this is a good thing. If people want to make their filters last much longer because they are in a super hard area with liquid chalk for water, they could simply empty and refill the supply pitcher at the 1.5 litre mark....which would make a HUGE difference....albeit at the cost of more water usage.


 Yeap, I didn't say it was not normal. I only wished they had a different sensor for the water level (e.g., magnetic) to avoid the noise.

Basically I love my osmio zero.

If they ever release a V2 these would be in my wish list:



Better water level sensor (to cut the pump quicker and avoid unnecessary noise)


Two programmable buttons for water dispensing (e.g., time-based water serving). My glasses are 400ml and my water bottle is 1lt. So I wish I could "program" the dispenser to fill those. Many coffee machines and grinders have such programming capabilities, shouldn't be too expensive to implement. I am not talking about adding a fancy screen: just push and hold to program the dispensing button and push again to stop and store the time.


Maybe a faster *filtered* water pump to fill our glasses/bottle faster.


Again, I love my Osmio, these are just my suggestions for V2


----------



## Mark Osmio

Ilias said:


> Yeap, I didn't say it was not normal. I only wished they had a different sensor for the water level (e.g., magnetic) to avoid the noise.
> 
> Basically I love my osmio zero.
> 
> If they ever release a V2 these would be in my wish list:
> 
> 
> 
> Better water level sensor (to cut the pump quicker and avoid unnecessary noise)
> 
> 
> Two programmable buttons for water dispensing (e.g., time-based water serving). My glasses are 400ml and my water bottle is 1lt. So I wish I could "program" the dispenser to fill those. Many coffee machines and grinders have such programming capabilities, shouldn't be too expensive to implement. I am not talking about adding a fancy screen: just push and hold to program the dispensing button and push again to stop and store the time.
> 
> 
> Maybe a faster *filtered* water pump to fill our glasses/bottle faster.
> 
> 
> Again, I love my Osmio, these are just my suggestions for V2


 Thanks for the suggestions, We are planning to make a sediment filter extension tube so people with very hard water can alarm to replace water at about 1.5 to 2 litres remaining, which will help the filter life.

We made a version that had temperature on left buttons, volume dispensing options on the right and a central button but the feedback was there were too many touch buttons and it was more confusing more people.

If the system is taking longer to go into replace water alarm, it is also a sign that the membrane i nearing end of life and getting blocked. The replace water alarm works on the basis of the PCB sensing loss of flow.

Thanks for the good suggestions, it is appreciated and my aim is to make a version which incorporates a flow through ioniser and a pressure tank so it can dispense hydrogen rich water. We have already done this but couldnt get more than 0.5 mg/l of H2 in it, so there needs to be a way to pressure the water and do electrolysis under pressure.


----------



## Ilias

Mark Osmio said:


> If the system is taking longer to go into replace water alarm, it is also a sign that the membrane i nearing end of life and getting blocked. The replace water alarm works on the basis of the PCB sensing loss of flow.


 Thanks for the reply!

I think it is more like a negative feedback loop. When the water is near the rim of the first filter some air bubbles start getting in. This air has some volume that replaces water that is then expelled in the external water tank-> water in external tank rises very slightly (less than a mm) ---> loop... So towards the end the water level in the external tank fluctuates slightly up/down (it doesn't just monotonically go down).

This continues until enough water passed through the membrane into the internal tank in order to stop this feeback loop. In my case it takes a few minutes. It is not annoying, just a bit more noisy.


----------



## Inspector

Ilias said:


> I think it is more like a negative feedback loop. When the water is near the rim of the first filter some air bubbles start getting in. This air has some volume that replaces water that is then expelled in the external water tank-> water in external tank rises very slightly (less than a mm) ---> loop... So towards the end the water level in the external tank fluctuates slightly up/down (it doesn't just monotonically go down).
> 
> This continues until enough water passed through the membrane into the internal tank in order to stop this feeback loop.


 That is exactly what my problem was/is. But If that happens I undo filters and let the air escape then put them back in, it fixes the issue for a while. But it happens eventually again. I learned to live with it. Not a biggie


----------



## DavecUK

Ilias said:


> Yeap, I didn't say it was not normal. I only wished they had a different sensor for the water level (e.g., magnetic) to avoid the noise.


 Good job they don't as it would be a lot more difficult to make the mod to allow for water liberal and water saving modes!

The current system allows for a simple extension tube on the in tank filter, which means anyone with an Osmio can retrofit the modification in minutes...and enjoy water liberal mode if they live in an area of liquid chalk....


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Mark Osmio said:


> my aim is to make a version which incorporates a flow through ioniser and a pressure tank so it can dispense hydrogen rich water. We have already done this but couldnt get more than 0.5 mg/l of H2 in it, so there needs to be a way to pressure the water and do electrolysis under pressure.


 Hope, you do not come out with an upgraded version soon, as my new unit is just a week old! 😅


----------



## Mark Osmio

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Hope, you do not come out with an upgraded version, when my new unit is just a week old! 😅


 If we started today it would be at least a few years before its out, so you're ok because we aren't starting this. We are working on the next version of the Osmio Infinity and Osmio Sanser 2L at the moment.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Mark Osmio said:


> If we started today it would be at least a few years before its out, so you're ok because we aren't starting this. We are working on the next version of the Osmio Infinity and Osmio Sanser 2L at the moment.


 Thank you for saving me from getting shot !!! 😂


----------



## Mark Osmio

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Thank you for saving me from getting shot !!! 😂


 When we bring out a new model we will invite existing customers to trade in their Zero which can be reconditioned and given to charity or sold on ebay as grade C ones and I will do my best to bring the best offers available to the CFUK members.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Mark Osmio said:


> We are planning to make a sediment filter extension tube so people with very hard water can alarm to replace water at about 1.5 to 2 litres remaining, which will help the filter life.


 When the water level touches the top of the filter in the pitcher, that's the time I replace the water, which will be circa 11.5 l.


----------



## 7877

Joined the Osmio Zero club today. Next day delivery and excellent service from @Mark Osmio

only just setup, refilled twice and not tasted yet, used the water on plants and washing up. I assume that will be enough to remove any "new taste", so just about to take my first sip!

just wondering about the refill level and whether I go early rather than wait for the beep? I have TDS and ph meter inbound too so only other thing I have to go on is the Severn Trent water report right now, that says "moderately hard" and 12.56 degrees Clark.

tastes&#8230;.I don't know&#8230;different yeah, straight out the tap seems fresher in a way but that is more what I am used to, but its quite cold right now which is main difference, I'd describe the filtered water as smooth I think&#8230;.whatever that means! I need to learn a new language for water now not just my coffee 🤣


----------



## AndyDClements

I keep a 500ml bottle of water in the fridge, which at the moment is about the same temp as coming out of the tap (ground temp), I'd say that's the better way to do a taste comparison. It will taste different and you'll notice the difference, much as if you were tasting a bottle of some shop-bought stuff and that's because you've grown accustomed to the tap water, like when lockdown hit and there was less traffic on the main road nearby, it seemed odd and it was the lack of the noise which I don't normally notice.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Sibling Chris said:


> Joined the Osmio Zero club today. Next day delivery and excellent service from @Mark Osmio
> 
> only just setup, refilled twice and not tasted yet, used the water on plants and washing up. I assume that will be enough to remove any "new taste", so just about to take my first sip!
> 
> just wondering about the refill level and whether I go early rather than wait for the beep? I have TDS and ph meter inbound too so only other thing I have to go on is the Severn Trent water report right now, that says "moderately hard" and 12.56 degrees Clark.
> 
> tastes&#8230;.I don't know&#8230;different yeah, straight out the tap seems fresher in a way but that is more what I am used to, but its quite cold right now which is main difference, I'd describe the filtered water as smooth I think&#8230;.whatever that means! I need to learn a new language for water now not just my coffee 🤣


 Well done! Welcome to the club!!!

As @DavecUK mentioned, most of the time, we refill (after removing the waste water for other purposes and giving it a quick rinse) when the water is just on top of the pitcher filter.

You may grab a GH/KH drop kit, if you want to know the hardness levels.


----------



## 7877

In terms of looking at the OZ water output and balance for use in espresso machine (which is the main purpose) are TDS and ph not sufficient indicators.


----------



## Mark Osmio

Sibling Chris said:


> In terms of looking at the OZ water output and balance for use in espresso machine (which is the main purpose) are TDS and ph not sufficient indicators.


 if the issue is corrosion, then the most important parameter to get right is the ORP, but if the pH is acidic and the ORP is positive, then there will be corrosion, but if the ORP is negative and the pH is acidic, it doesn't corrode anywhere near as quickly.


----------



## 7877

So meters arrived,

TDS out of the tap wasn't as high as I expected to be honest 149, and then from the Osmio 34

pH, well not sure I trust the meter so need to get a bottle of distilled and calibrate. From the tap it was reading about 6.4 and from the Osmio then about 8.1 &#8230;..hmmmm&#8230;.


----------



## Jony

Mine is the other way round.


----------



## 7877

Won't worry about it until calibrated I think. Not sure to be honest if it is 8 ph whether that's to be expected or anything to worry about. Used the water in my filter coffee today and I wouldn't say it tasted odd in any way, new espresso machine has also arrived but not unboxed yet&#8230;job for the weekend!


----------



## DavecUK

@Sibling Chris you will probably find your tapwater TDS gets higher in summer, mine does.


----------



## Karka

Is it normal for TDS readings to be a lot higher when pouring hot water from the Osmio?

as standard my 25c option has a reading from 35-45 TDS. When I pour 65c+ water the TDS is showing at 68 and some visible 'cloudiness' in the water. Tastes fine, just wondering if I might need to change my filters?


----------



## DavecUK

Karka said:


> Is it normal for TDS readings to be a lot higher when pouring hot water from the Osmio?
> 
> as standard my 25c option has a reading from 35-45 TDS. When I pour 65c+ water the TDS is showing at 68 and some visible 'cloudiness' in the water. Tastes fine, just wondering if I might need to change my filters?


 Water conductivity increases significantly with a rise in temperature. Relatively low TDS water will increase at 2-3% per 1C rise in temp....so it's consistent with your findings. A TDS meter measures conductivity.

Cloudiness is probably micro-bubbles created by the instant heating elements effect on the water. If you leave the water, the cloudiness would no doubt disappear. You don't need to change your filters. The RO membrane is good for a year unless it gets clogged first...the carbon block can clog quicker if your water is hard. If the Osmio has not told you the filters need changing...then they don't.


----------



## Karka

DavecUK said:


> Water conductivity increases significantly with a rise in temperature. Relatively low TDS water will increase at 2-3% per 1C rise in temp....so it's consistent with your findings. A TDS meter measures conductivity.
> 
> Cloudiness is probably micro-bubbles created by the instant heating elements effect on the water. If you leave the water, the cloudiness would no doubt disappear. You don't need to change your filters. The RO membrane is good for a year unless it gets clogged first...the carbon block can clog quicker if your water is hard. If the Osmio has not told you the filters need changing...then they don't.


 @DaveC thanks for that. Yeah the bubbles definitely settle quickly and disappear and as I mentioned the water tastes great.

the reason I asked was because I bought the machine second hand. The original buyer told me it was only 2 months old and hardly used, but you just never know if they had it longer and just reset the filter reminder or something. I have a spare set ready to go but my TDS readings have been fine.


----------



## Mark Osmio

Karka said:


> Is it normal for TDS readings to be a lot higher when pouring hot water from the Osmio?
> 
> as standard my 25c option has a reading from 35-45 TDS. When I pour 65c+ water the TDS is showing at 68 and some visible 'cloudiness' in the water. Tastes fine, just wondering if I might need to change my filters?


 if you use a regular TDS meter, you need to let it cool down to room ambient temperature to get a more accurate TDS reading.


----------



## shaunlawler

I've had my Osmio zero around 7 months now and only got positive things to say.

One quick question - I have the replacement filters but have not yet had the 'maintenance' light flash. Should I wait for this before replacing the filters?

If so, any idea when this is likely to happen?


----------



## DavecUK

Karka said:


> @DaveC thanks for that. Yeah the bubbles definitely settle quickly and disappear and as I mentioned the water tastes great.
> 
> the reason I asked was because I bought the machine second hand. The original buyer told me it was only 2 months old and hardly used, but you just never know if they had it longer and just reset the filter reminder or something. I have a spare set ready to go but my TDS readings have been fine.


 The Osmio will tell you when, if they reset it, it doesn't matter, the Osmio itself detects when they need changing.



shaunlawler said:


> I've had my Osmio zero around 7 months now and only got positive things to say.
> 
> One quick question - I have the replacement filters but have not yet had the 'maintenance' light flash. Should I wait for this before replacing the filters?
> 
> If so, any idea when this is likely to happen?


 Mope, I went 1 year on my first set and 11 months on my second. Save your money and let the Osmio unit tell you when it's time.


----------



## Mark Osmio

shaunlawler said:


> I've had my Osmio zero around 7 months now and only got positive things to say.
> 
> One quick question - I have the replacement filters but have not yet had the 'maintenance' light flash. Should I wait for this before replacing the filters?
> 
> If so, any idea when this is likely to happen?


 Its definitely best to change as a minimum the carbon every 6 months because there is nothing that senses when it's depleted, only when it's blocked. Every time you do a carbon and membrane change you need to do a filter reset so the system knows it's had new filters. It's likely to go off after about 18 months if you do nothing.


----------



## Mark Osmio

Karka said:


> @DaveC thanks for that. Yeah the bubbles definitely settle quickly and disappear and as I mentioned the water tastes great.
> 
> the reason I asked was because I bought the machine second hand. The original buyer told me it was only 2 months old and hardly used, but you just never know if they had it longer and just reset the filter reminder or something. I have a spare set ready to go but my TDS readings have been fine.


 we can refurbish many machines and replace the heating element which will over time extract TDS into the water and that's why at the very least at part should be replaced every 5 to 7 years. By then there will surely be a better machine but the point is anyone can keep the system going for much longer maybe 30 or 40 years if they contact Osmio and ask for it to be refurbished, we will replace the heating elements, and may as well change the pumps too and all the tubing inside. For that and the time it would be in the region of about £60. Boilers for water cannot be used indefinitely, on all systems including coffee machines, they should be checked and if any come back for repair we check the TDS. It's also important when checking TDS that there is a difference between using glass and ceramic cups and it depends on their glaze and quality because in our tests we would not use a normal ceramic or glazed cup, but a high temp microwaveable plastic container, so to eliminate the TDS the cup adds.


----------



## shaunlawler

Mark Osmio said:


> Its definitely best to change as a minimum the carbon every 6 months because there is nothing that senses when it's depleted, only when it's blocked. Every time you do a carbon and membrane change you need to do a filter reset so the system knows it's had new filters. It's likely to go off after about 18 months if you do nothing.


Ok thanks.

So you would recommend using the sanitisation kit, cleaning out and then installing the replacement filters now at the 7 month point?


----------



## Mark Osmio

shaunlawler said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> So you would recommend using the sanitisation kit, cleaning out and then installing the replacement filters now at the 7 month point?


 The manual says to change the filters every 6 months and sanitise every 6 or 12 months as necessary, I change all the filters every 6 months and have never sanitised one of my own yet, but it's been used every day and filters changed on time.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

shaunlawler said:


> Ok thanks.
> 
> So you would recommend using the sanitisation kit, cleaning out and then installing the replacement filters now at the 7 month point?


 I will give you an example of another cleaning extreme. Some of the users on this forum are cleaning freaks. I clean the supply pitcher every week. I do this by removing the small white filter, soak it with a milton solution for 15-20 minutes, wash it completely with warm water, mount the filter and we are good to go. 🙂


----------



## shaunlawler

I'll give it a full clean / filter refresh then!

Thanks all


----------



## Jony

OK, first set filter I changed 17 months 18. New filters last July maintenance light came on the other week , cleaned reset it and will wait again.


----------



## Mark Osmio

Jony said:


> OK, first set filter I changed 17 months 18. New filters last July maintenance light came on the other week , cleaned reset it and will wait again.


 You got to do a reset after each filter change. The system is programmed to maintenance light eventually if you don't reset it, it's 18 months in.


----------



## shaunlawler

Is there a step by step guide on how to do this with the sanitisation kit and then fitting the new filters?

I just want to make sure I am doing it properly


----------



## Mark Osmio

Yes the steps are all in the manual, filter reset in section 5.2


----------



## Obnic

When my Osmio arrived it got the side-eye from wife and daughters - another Daddy gadget. I would use it for my espresso machine, and refill the reservoir every third day. Amazing how they now seem to have abandoned the kettle, and I have to refill the reservoir every evening!


----------



## DavecUK

Obnic said:


> When my Osmio arrived it got the side-eye from wife and daughters - another Daddy gadget. I would use it for my espresso machine, and refill the reservoir every third day. Amazing how they now seem to have abandoned the kettle, and I have to refill the reservoir every evening!


 Identical experience...


----------



## Usige

Morning all,

Just purchased the Zero using the deal I found on the forum - excited to receive it! Thanks Mark for sorting me out.

Any tips/tricks I should know about when I first set it up?

I understand there is a 'new taste' to the water initially?


----------



## Jony

Use 20 litres first 4 times, don't drink it, the 3rd time will be funky bit OK.


----------



## Nightrider_1uk

Obnic said:


> When my Osmio arrived it got the side-eye from wife and daughters - another Daddy gadget. I would use it for my espresso machine, and refill the reservoir every third day. Amazing how they now seem to have abandoned the kettle, and I have to refill the reservoir every evening!


 I got my Osmio on round 12. Nobody uses it apart from me the wife and daughter prefer the kettle, so first set of filters going strong. I do notice that I get a tainted taste from mine if its been sitting a few hours without use so I just pull of a bit of water first.


----------



## DavecUK

@Nightrider_1uk how long ago was round 12?


----------



## Nightrider_1uk

DavecUK said:


> @Nightrider_1uk how long ago was round 12?


 August 2020 Dave.


----------



## DavecUK

@Nightrider_1uk Surprised you're getting a tainted taste...although I do pull about 16-20 litres per day through mine. Never noticed a tainted taste?


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

It's been month here. We never had tainted taste issue. We refill at least 2-3 at least times a day between 2 of us. We even draw hot water or room temperature water for all types of cooking such as pressure cooking rice, lentils, soaking soy beans, etc.

@Nightrider_1uk: May be, the idle water taste might be from the mineralisation cartridge. I think some users here reported this mineralisation taste when the first glass of water is drawn in the morning.

You might want to test the TDS at the room temperature water.


----------



## Usige

Jony said:


> Use 20 litres first 4 times, don't drink it, the 3rd time will be funky bit OK.


 Nice one thank you :good:


----------



## Karka

Nightrider_1uk said:


> I got my Osmio on round 12. Nobody uses it apart from me the wife and daughter prefer the kettle, so first set of filters going strong. I do notice that I get a tainted taste from mine if its been sitting a few hours without use so I just pull of a bit of water first.


 I pull a lot of water daily through mine so have never had a problem with taste from the machine.

I did however get a problem with the taste when I drew water from the machine to fill the water dispenser in my fridge. After 1 or 2 days the water just had a really strange taste. I had no idea what it was and just put it down to the fridge. Any idea how to stop this as it would be nice to have cold water in the summer.


----------



## DavecUK

Karka said:


> I pull a lot of water daily through mine so have never had a problem with taste from the machine.
> 
> I did however get a problem with the taste when I drew water from the machine to fill the water dispenser in my fridge. After 1 or 2 days the water just had a really strange taste. I had no idea what it was and just put it down to the fridge. Any idea how to stop this as it would be nice to have cold water in the summer.


 RO water has no chlorine....and should not really be stored. Even tap water with chlorine shouldn't be stored, but it has a better chance in a fridge reservoir of not loosing all the chlorine and remaining fresh-ish.

Fridge reservoirs should be cleaned out with Milton or a hypochlorite forming device regularly...at least very 2 weeks IMO. The same goes for espresso machine water tanks.


----------



## Usige

It arrived - rapido delivery!

I've put about 4 tanks through - I was slightly concerned by a cloudiness at first, but I'm pretty sure it was just micro-bubbles from the new filters because after leaving for 5 mins in the glass they disappeared.

Nice clean taste and much better than my chlorinated tap water.

I have a TDS meter coming and will be interested running some tests.

Now to brew some coffee with my moccamaster 😀

Let's see if it passes the wife test later on.........


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Usige said:


> Let's see if it passes the wife test later on.........


 Aye... 🤣


----------



## 28267

Usige said:


> Let's see if it passes the wife test later on.........


 Oh it has to pass that test? I'm in trouble then!

I asked which colour, response was white so you can guess which I've ordered 😉 Well white doesn't go with the coffee machine or grinder.

Also she can't smell the stench of chlorine in our tap water, so as our water is non-scaling I think it is being seen as a pointless toy.


----------



## DavecUK

AdG said:


> Oh it has to pass that test? I'm in trouble then!
> 
> I asked which colour, response was white so you can guess which I've ordered 😉 Well white doesn't go with the coffee machine or grinder.
> 
> Also she can't smell the stench of chlorine in our tap water, so as our water is non-scaling I think it is being seen as a pointless toy.


 Well, there is all the other stuff in your tap water that it significantly reduces....I used to distil my water and if you saw what was left out of 4 litres of water after distilling it, you would be shocked. You certainly wouldn't want to tip it back into what you just distilled and drink it!

Theres also more chlorine in summer....


----------



## 27852

AdG said:


> Oh it has to pass that test? I'm in trouble then!
> 
> I asked which colour, response was white so you can guess which I've ordered 😉 Well white doesn't go with the coffee machine or grinder.
> 
> Also she can't smell the stench of chlorine in our tap water, so as our water is non-scaling I think it is being seen as a pointless toy.


 My wife thought ours to be pointless but she is now a convert. I can now smell the difference between the RO and tap - though to Dave's point it may be due to upped chlorine.


----------



## Nightrider_1uk

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> May be, the idle water taste might be from the mineralisation cartridge. I think some users here reported this mineralisation taste when the first glass of water is drawn in the morning.


 Tt's only the first little bit. I noticed it when I poured a small amount to take some tablets with. I now just pull off about 50mls before use unless i'm pouring a litre for the coffee machine, then I don't bother.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Nightrider_1uk said:


> Tt's only the first little bit. I noticed it when I poured a small amount to take some tablets with. I now just pull off about 50mls before use unless i'm pouring a litre for the coffee machine, then I don't bother.


 I am always the first to draw water in the morning; I get a big pint glass of water and drink. I tried getting and drinking 10-20 ml, but I could not taste any difference.


----------



## CoffeePhilE

This thread reminds me, get my butt in gear and get one ordered.

/Note for morning - kick self in rear and get it done.


----------



## 28267

Kjk said:


> My wife thought ours to be pointless but she is now a convert. I can now smell the difference between the RO and tap - though to Dave's point it may be due to upped chlorine.


 I could smell the difference straightaway with ours, even my wife could tell the difference between the two in a blind test. I think I found a side issue, she complained the RO tasted of cheese which was an issue with the glass!

Not sure if she is a convert yet, but it tastes nicer to me. Hot water worked for the tea this morning, however it did taste different, perhaps Yorkshire tea can tell when someone has filtered the Yorkshire Water?

Need to drain the boilers in the coffee machine at the weekend, clean the tank and then refill with RO water.

Only issue - who thought that giant info sticker on the top was a good idea? My wife works in home appliances area and was horrified and went of grumbling that you don't put stickers like that on high end items!


----------



## Mark Osmio

AdG said:


> I could smell the difference straightaway with ours, even my wife could tell the difference between the two in a blind test. I think I found a side issue, she complained the RO tasted of cheese which was an issue with the glass!
> 
> Not sure if she is a convert yet, but it tastes nicer to me. Hot water worked for the tea this morning, however it did taste different, perhaps Yorkshire tea can tell when someone has filtered the Yorkshire Water?
> 
> Need to drain the boilers in the coffee machine at the weekend, clean the tank and then refill with RO water.
> 
> Only issue - who thought that giant info sticker on the top was a good idea? My wife works in home appliances area and was horrified and went of grumbling that you don't put stickers like that on high end items!


 Hi there you can take them off if it really bothers you, i find it makes a nice surface protection for things, but people have removed them by very carefully peeling it off and using adhesive wipes to take the glue off and it can work fine with the white one but with the black one it's a bit risky I think but it has been done a few times before.


----------



## DavecUK

AdG said:


> Need to drain the boilers in the coffee machine at the weekend, clean the tank and then refill with RO water.
> 
> Only issue - who thought that giant info sticker on the top was a good idea? My wife works in home appliances area and was horrified and went of grumbling that you don't put stickers like that on high end items!


 I wouldn't bother draining thw boilers, you can get the machine up to temp and switch off to drain down the service boiler if you want...the brew boiler will take care of itself over time.

I've a black one the sticker came off easy enough.


----------



## 28267

DavecUK said:


> I wouldn't bother draining thw boilers, you can get the machine up to temp and switch off to drain down the service boiler if you want...the brew boiler will take care of itself over time.
> 
> I've a black one the sticker came off easy enough.


 Yeah it was mainly the service boiler I was thinking of, just need to check which function on the PID does it and remember it only works when the boiler is up to temperature. The water level sensor pipe needs cleaning frequently so will ensure that and the tank are clean at the same time.

The sticker has gone, just took a couple of mins to get the glue off nice and tidy now and it was the black one.


----------



## DavecUK

@AdG What machine is it?

Worth mentioning, using RO water will gradually reduce the scale in the machine over time, unlike softened water which doesn't.


----------



## 28267

DavecUK said:


> @AdG What machine is it?
> 
> Worth mentioning, using RO water will gradually reduce the scale in the machine over time, unlike softened water which doesn't.


 @DavecUK It is a Rancilio Silvia Pro - just checked and F03 empties the brew boiler and F04 empties the steam boiler.

The machine is only a few months old and our water is moderately soft, from experience it is generally non scaling. Osmio is more to remove chlorine and other chemicals from the water.


----------



## 27852

I wanted to measure how effective the unit is so bought some aquarium test strips and did a side by side comparison of the Osmio (left) vs Tap (right).

GH - 180 to 0-30

KH - 180 to 0-40

PH - 7.5-8 to 6.5-7

The perfect defence against south east/Surrey chalk water. I do feel justified in adding a little bit of bicarbonate for each tank refill to get back some alkalinity.


----------



## tomjowens

Thank you everyone for the reviews. Super helpful!

Something I couldn't find anywhere here or online - what is the length of Osmio Zero's cable? The distance between my nearest socket and where the system would be placed is just over 5ft. Would I need an extension cord to make it work?

Thanks in advance!

Tom


----------



## tomjowens

Thank you all for the reviews! Super helpful!

Could someone provide me with Osmio Zero's cable length please? Afraid I couldn't find it anywhere here or online and the distance between my nearest available plug and the future location of the system is slightly over 5ft... I'd hate to use an extension cord on top of the kitchen counter...

Thanks in advance!

Tom


----------



## Jony

Yes you will.


----------



## Mark Osmio

tomjowens said:


> Thank you everyone for the reviews. Super helpful!
> 
> Something I couldn't find anywhere here or online - what is the length of Osmio Zero's cable? The distance between my nearest socket and where the system would be placed is just over 5ft. Would I need an extension cord to make it work?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> Tom


 It's 1 metre


----------



## Jaye44

Hey Mark, I noticed you said about bringing out a new model. I know it's probably not easy for you to say exactly when, but what sort of time in terms of months, or even years do you think it will be available? I'm just trying to work out if it is worth me buying the current model, or waiting out?

Thanks


----------



## Mark Osmio

Hi our last prototype included a flow through ioniser but it turned out to be not as good as a separate hydrogen bottle so we are sticking with the current model. We did a prototype of a model with 9 buttons, 4 each for temperature and volume and one middle one but it's not as good as the original design. Turns out the wheel is a pretty good shape but hydrogen is definitely better as a separate device, the OSMIO Duo


----------



## Jaye44

Thanks, shall put in an order in the next few days!


----------



## Fez

Took advantage of the May offer and pulled the trigger. @Mark Osmios service was excellent! Delivery to South Africa in just 6 days.


----------



## RobDGio

Fez said:


> Took advantage of the May offer and pulled the trigger. @Mark Osmios service was excellent! Delivery to South Africa in just 6 days.
> 
> View attachment 57821


 Is that a Matt black finish? Looks awesome. I had to go with white to keep the other half happy


----------



## Fez

RobDGio said:


> Is that a Matt black finish? Looks awesome. I had to go with white to keep the other half happy


 Yes it is - I love the finish, it looks far better than a gloss black


----------



## Fez

The big question is how do I massive sticker on too without it leaving glue behind?


----------



## DavecUK

Mine just peeled off....


----------



## Fez

Mine has some really sticky glue behind the sticker, not really a big deal though I'll just clean the glue off with a sponge.

How many litres did it take on initial set up before the water was coming out clean for others? I've just gone through 5 litres(waiting in between each litre for it stop filtering) and I can still see visible particles in the water


----------



## RobDGio

Fairly sure the instruction manual directs you to have many litres you are recommended to flush through. Think it's 10L but could be wrong. I seem to remember having to refill the external tank at least once. Could have been more though


----------



## Fez

The manual says 5 litres


----------



## RobDGio

Fez said:


> The manual says 5 litres


 My mistake


----------



## 4085

Flush through enough, until the water tastes fine......might be five, might be fifteen


----------



## Fez

dfk41 said:


> Flush through enough, until the water tastes fine......might be five, might be fifteen


 Will do. I gave it a taste after 7 litres and it didn't taste quite right - had a bitter aftertaste


----------



## 4085

@Fez I think I ran three or four tanks through mine, and it still continued to improve in the early days......if you are not certain what it does, taste the stuff you pour down the sink!


----------



## rob1803

Fez said:


> Will do. I gave it a taste after 7 litres and it didn't taste quite right - had a bitter aftertaste


 Got mine today (thanks Mark!) Flushed through 10 litres and it's now tasting fine to me.


----------



## rob1803

Fez said:


> The big question is how do I massive sticker on too without it leaving glue behind?


----------



## Obnic

rob1803 said:


> View attachment 57828


 Wish I'd known about that. I used vegetable oil and WD40 and elbow grease. Why do companies insist on using glues that leave so much residue?


----------



## Mark Osmio

Obnic said:


> Wish I'd known about that. I used vegetable oil and WD40 and elbow grease. Why do companies insist on using glues that leave so much residue?


 It won't stick otherwise and especially when it gets wet


----------



## Ilias

Just heat it up with a hair dryer. Never failed me. Just don't heat it too much that the plastic melts 😛

And then clean with alcohol (even hand sanitiser will work  )


----------



## Lesd

Hi Dave

There is an article on the Clive Coffee website in the USA which suggests that RO water should not be used in an espresso machine. You say you use the Osmosis Zero system so is it OK for coffee machines such as HX and DB's?

Thanks

Lesd


----------



## 4085

@Lesd Is this the article?

https://clivecoffee.com/blogs/learn/the-importance-of-water-and-your-espresso-machine

Reverse osmosis systems typically will take all the mineral out of the water, and this is problematic as well as the machine requires mineral content for many of the internal sensors. _For most optimal results, the Specialty Coffee Association of America recommend hardness above 35ppm and below 85ppm._

_They also talk about the importance of using water test strips as an accurate way of measuring.....believe it if you will!_


----------



## Lesd

Hi @dfk41

Yes that's the article I read.

Yes they do mention strips but also mention a TDS meter.

Sorry are you suggesting that nobody should take notice of our American friends?


----------



## DavecUK

@Lesd Les I have 12 or 13 machines, dual boilers, single boilers, HXs. I only use RO water, have done for over 20 years. For the last 2.5 years I have been very happy with the Osmio Zero. I used add a bit of sodium bocarb to bring the TDS to 70m but with the Osmio Zero, I don't much bother...unless it's a copper boiler machine.

I don't get many problems with them either, because I use good water.


----------



## 4085

Lesd said:


> Hi @dfk41
> 
> Yes that's the article I read.
> 
> Yes they do mention strips but also mention a TDS meter.


 They ship all their machines with a test strip......real 21st century technology matey! There is just a tad of a difference between the accuracy of a TDS meter and a test strip!


----------



## Mark Osmio

There's a couple of good points raised here. First is if water already has dissolved solids and gases there is less room for coffee to become extracted into the water. So purer is better. Secondly if water is very pure can it cause a problem with the machine and the answer is it depends. In around 2012 we discovered about ORP, oxidation reduction which is actually is fast-forward to nowadays used to measure the corrosion of hot water systems. That's why the Osmio Zero has a negative ORP. It also is good for the human body to drink and use water for hot drinks which has a negative ORP as it is for the machine itself.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mark Osmio said:


> That's why the Osmio Zero has a negative ORP


 Is that for both, with or without the remineralisation cartridge? In other words, is it advisable to use the Osmio Zero without the remineralisation cartridge in prosumer coffe machines, sometimes equipped with brass boilers, or stainless steel boilers or both?


----------



## Mark Osmio

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Is that for both, with or without the remineralisation cartridge? In other words, is it advisable to use the Osmio Zero without the remineralisation cartridge in prosumer coffe machines, sometimes equipped with brass boilers, or stainless steel boilers or both?


 It's the last cartridge that will minerlaise and change the ORP, Tds and pH.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Mark Osmio said:


> It's the last cartridge that will minerlaise and change the ORP, Tds and pH.


 Thanks. So for coffee machines (and human consumption) it's best to run with he remineralisation cartridge rather than the blank cartridge. Is that correct?


----------



## Ilias

From what I understand (please correct me if I am wrong), the last cartridge offers a *very light *remineralisation.

So some people might still add mineral drops (to drink cold water) or bicarb for coffee machines.



I do add just a tiny amount of bicarb for coffee (mostly to reduce coffee acidity, ie as a buffer).


I don't add mineral drops to cold water, and I drink 3+ liters a day. I am hoping that the light remineralisation is enough to provide the minerals we need at the right amounts. Can anyone confirm this ?


In any case, I think limescale will kill your machine much faster than slight acidity...


----------



## Mark Osmio

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks. So for coffee machines (and human consumption) it's best to run with he remineralisation cartridge rather than the blank cartridge. Is that correct?
> 
> Yes that is correct


----------



## Mark Osmio

Fez said:


> The big question is how do I massive sticker on too without it leaving glue behind?


 use alcohol wipes to take the glue off


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

What I understood from the forum is the following:

1) TDS, which we like measuring using a cheap device, of the re-mineralised OZ water is not a key variable for the espresso machine.

2) GH/KH drop kit on 20ml of water and standardised on 5 ml gives us accurate values

3) GH is not as important as Alkalinity (KH) from OZ.

I have this amazing unit since Feb this year.

The TDS and GH have largely been stable at 75/80 ppm and 17.85 mg/l respectively. I wonder if my eyes are deceiving me; I thought I remember measuring KH at ~25/26 mg/l earlier. It's kind of stabilised at 49.23 - 53.7 mg/l recently.

So, unless our water experts advise me that I should add a few mg of bicarb to improve the alkalinity of the water for the machine, I plan to feed the boiler on Evo Leva without anything. I hope the boilers won't corrode as they are stainless steel. Regular steaming can be an issue. Of course, I plan to check KH on the OZ and the steam boiler may be once in 3-4 weeks.


----------



## pgarrish

I'm finding the Osmio a great addition to the kitchen. I bought it to fill the new coffee machine but the kettle function is brilliant. Much quicker and quieter than a kettle. Just needs a chiller now 😁


----------



## DavecUK

pgarrish said:


> I'm finding the Osmio a great addition to the kitchen. I bought it to fill the new coffee machine but the kettle function is brilliant. Much quicker and quieter than a kettle. Just needs a chiller now 😁


 I fill a container and put it in the fridge...but use within a few days as no chlorine to act as a preservative.


----------



## pgarrish

DavecUK said:


> I fill a container and put it in the fridge...but use within a few days as no chlorine to act as a preservative.


 Our fridge has a water dispenser, so very much a first world problem 😂


----------



## Jimjam11

Got mine last week and it is great. Some of the comments about dangerous low TDS water are interesting given our central scotland tap water has a typical TDS of 18! This is lower than most are reporting on here after treatment with the OZ.

I thought the OZ mineralisation cartridge would add more back, water from the OZ is showing a TDS of 6-8 typically?

The difference in taste is surprising; presumably from the removal of Chlorine etc. The Peak jug tasted similarly good, but I always got resin beads in the water so stopped using it.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

@Jimjam11

I won't worry about the TDS values, which we get from the cheap TDS tools. Mine with mineralisation is between 50 and 80. If we want a perfect measurement, we need the lab accuracy tools. The only couple of values, which I check are GH and KH using the drop kit. The water from osmio zero is great. That's all it matters to us at home.


----------



## 3888

How does the temperature compare with a kettle, is it suitable for tea. As the wife does like her tea.


----------



## DavecUK

@srees707 I have a little plastic pot where I let the first 10ml go before moving it out of the way, ensuring all the water for tea is just off the boil. It's fine for tea.


----------



## 3888

Thanks @DavecUKAs I have talked the little lady into purchasing one, I thought I had better make sure what I told her was correct. Your reviews give one a great insight into equipment. I have my Niche a set of scales then it will be onto a machine. Slowly but surely. Can I ask if you have seen both colours as the black does look good. I wear wondering how good the white looks, it's not always easy to judge without seeing one in the flesh. Just waiting for the next visa bill. It don't look so bad then.


----------



## Eiffel

Regarding the look of the Osmio Zero, I do have the (glossy) white version, which looks like a regular kitchen appliance and seems to weather regular use without any issue or markings.

The peanut gallery made some snide comments initially about the pinkish hue of the silvery bits, which is an acquired taste shall we say... and I almost had to return the unit because of it. After checking with Osmio, this is normal, and both the black and white editions have a pinkish hue in their silvery parts, even though it's hardly visible on the website pictures.


----------



## DavecUK

srees707 said:


> Thanks @DavecUKAs I have talked the little lady into purchasing one, I thought I had better make sure what I told her was correct. Your reviews give one a great insight into equipment. I have my Niche a set of scales then it will be onto a machine. Slowly but surely. Can I ask if you have seen both colours as the black does look good. I wear wondering how good the white looks, it's not always easy to judge without seeing one in the flesh. Just waiting for the next visa bill. It don't look so bad then.


 I have black, but if I was to buy another...i'd probably get a white one.


----------



## 17845

Same as Dave, let the first 10ml go then make tea, no problems

I went for the white version, matches most of the kitchen white goods.


----------



## 3888

Looks like it could be a white one. I see they do a plumbed in unit. I would assume that it would use more water flushing the system rather than recycling the water as the zero does.


----------



## JamesJennettWheeler

> Special Promotion
> 
> In order to spread the wonderful benefits of our system, we would like to offer a free 4 pack replacement set to any customer who has a friend or relative who would like to order one, and your friend will receive a free replacement pack too! Just ask them to quote your name and postcode when you call to order!


 Does anyone have on that hasn't made use of the free 4-pack of replacement filters for recommending it?

I am looking to buy one and would like the free 4-pack that I would also get...


----------



## woodbar

OK, I have been reading up on various ways to treat water for my Sage Oracle coffee machine plusTea etc. I have an under-sink single filter (Calmag Slim R to a separate tap) which is a Carbon and resin combination and has been working OK-ish. The water definitely tastes smoother and softer but I still get a hint of a metallic taste. My local water company lists my area to have "slightly hard" water but quite often when you run the main tap you are greeted with a distinct chlorine aroma!

So I ordered the Osmio Zero yesterday, which became a little confusing as I thought the complimentary extra set of filters for CFUK members was still valid - apparently IT IS NOT - but having worked around that with Osmio my black Zero arrived today.

First thoughts - nice, neat and fairly attractive unit - shame about the pink tinge to the shiny bits - luckily SWMBO has not noticed yet!

Having set it up and flushed through 3 tanks including several cups of boiling water, just to be sure, I will list some thoughts and queries:

1) Why all the blooming labels - one on the front, 2 on the top and one on the side? They might not notice so much on the white version BUT on the black one they stick out like the proverbial and in the only location I have available for the unit they are ALL on show. OK, the one on the front is a "safety" label but surely the large specification/serial number one could have gone in a more discreet place - behind the filters or even on the bottom? I intend to remove most of them - what is the best way to avoid damaging the black paintwork?

2) Rubber feet - I would think that a vast majority of users might have the unit installed on a kitchen worktop underneath the wall cupboards (where mine is) and will need to swivel/slide the unit around to be able to remove/fill the tank? Unfortunately the soft and grippy rubber feet make this almost impossible especially when the tank is full! Felt pads now installed - thanks to the previous poster that suggested this - but a bit of a design anomaly.

3) Drip tray wobbly - it does not fit tight to the front panel so when you use it it has a tendency to rattle from one side to the other against the painted panel. Now sorted with the addition of small thin rubber pads to the back edges of the tray - it now attaches with a satisfying clunk and stays perfectly located. Should really have been designed with some buffers?

4) Refill light delay - on depletion of the first fill the unit started making a much louder noise a bit like a distant diesel engine with a fueling problem! This lasted for a good five minutes or so until the refill light came on? When I opened the lid I got a huge surge of bubbles up through the remaining 1 litre of waste water. On the second and third refills I actually either lifted the lid or turned the mains off, when the noise started, but I still got a quite a bit of air bubbles? I assume this method is more acceptable than letting it try and pump air for five minutes or so?

5) Volumetric dispensing - the 250ml single push works fine, however I only got the 500ml longer press to work once? Subsequently if I push and hold the button for a few seconds without getting the beep I get absolutely nothing. If I push and hold until I get the beep it goes into continuous mode until I re-push the button to stop or the internal RO store runs empty?

6) No delay when 250ml hot water automatically cancels - our tea mugs are almost exactly 250ml. I noticed that when I press to stop the flow a bit short, to allow room for a little milk, then on two occasions I have suddenly got cold water being dispensed and overfilling the cup! Obviously I was pressing the button at the exact same time the auto function was turning it off so it started on a 250ml shot of cold! Now I appreciate that this is a safety feature to default to cold after every use BUT it could do with just a second or 2 delay!

By the way, this is not supposed to be super critical! During my career as a Technical Manager I was often involved in appraising and compiling reports on new and existing equipment so it is a bit of a habit!


----------



## pgarrish

re point 5, there is an internal 1ltr (?) tank of filtered water - if you dispense 500ml plus, depending how full that internal filter is, you may be left wanting - is the filtering light on when you try for the second batch? I can get 1 litre of cold out first thing in the morning, but I have to wait a while to do that again, way after the filtering light has gone out. hence I try and keep my coffee machine tank topped up to avoid waiting

point 4, I always get gurgling when the tank approaches the filter level, usually followed by the fill-me beeping. I just leave it to it, I've not found it as bad as you though/


----------



## Mark Osmio

The internal tank is 1.5 litres and there needs to be at least 500ml inside to dispense any of the hot settings


----------



## Mark Osmio

Use alcohol wipes to remove the labels if you want,it removes the glue


----------



## Mark Osmio

It will get louder as the supply tank level goes down because it draws in more air


----------



## woodbar

pgarrish said:


> re point 5, there is an internal 1ltr (?) tank of filtered water - if you dispense 500ml plus, depending how full that internal filter is, you may be left wanting - is the filtering light on when you try for the second batch? I can get 1 litre of cold out first thing in the morning, but I have to wait a while to do that again, way after the filtering light has gone out. hence I try and keep my coffee machine tank topped up to avoid waiting


 No, the filtering light was not on, so presumably the internal tank was full, and I was only dispensing 250ml or trying for 500ml of cold anyway. I have not tried filling the Oracle yet - that's for tomorrow!

What I was really querying was whether a long press of the button gives 500ml as I read somewhere OR continuous which is stated elsewhere? Or can you do both?



Mark Osmio said:


> Use alcohol wipes to remove the labels if you want,it removes the glue


 That sounds like a plan, as long as it does not remove the paint? I was just a bit surprised, having seen all the pristine pictures on the website, to find it plastered with labels when it comes out of the box.



Mark Osmio said:


> It will get louder as the supply tank level goes down because it draws in more air


 Yes I understand that, when the water level in the reservoir has fallen level with the sediment filter input orifices and it gets to the point when can only try and pump air.

I really wanted to know if has any detrimental effect on the machine operation to lift the lid or turn the power off when you hear the obvious noise without waiting for the fill light to come on? In other words does the triggering of the fill light actually reset or restart any internal procedures?


----------



## ratty

woodbar said:


> 2) Rubber feet - I would think that a vast majority of users might have the unit installed on a kitchen worktop underneath the wall cupboards (where mine is) and will need to swivel/slide the unit around to be able to remove/fill the tank? Unfortunately the soft and grippy rubber feet make this almost impossible especially when the tank is full! Felt pads now installed - thanks to the previous poster that suggested this - but a bit of a design anomaly.


 Owner for 18 months with filter change at 16 months. Tap water is medium hard.

I have my unit installed on a worktop under cupboards and have to swivel it out to remove the water tank. I have not removed the original rubber feet but have no problem doing this with tank both empty and full. As a pensioner with various ailments including arthritis in both hands I swivel it with my hands at the bottom of the unit on opposite corners and gently turn.

Felt pads on the bottom would make this easier to turn but seriously is it a necessity?

Maybe if you have slate or another type of stone worktop that's not entirely flat!


----------



## Mark Osmio

woodbar said:


> No, the filtering light was not on, so presumably the internal tank was full, and I was only dispensing 250ml or trying for 500ml of cold anyway. I have not tried filling the Oracle yet - that's for tomorrow!
> 
> What I was really querying was whether a long press of the button gives 500ml as I read somewhere OR continuous which is stated elsewhere? Or can you do both?
> 
> That sounds like a plan, as long as it does not remove the paint? I was just a bit surprised, having seen all the pristine pictures on the website, to find it plastered with labels when it comes out of the box.
> 
> Yes I understand that, when the water level in the reservoir has fallen level with the sediment filter input orifices and it gets to the point when can only try and pump air.
> 
> I really wanted to know if has any detrimental effect on the machine operation to lift the lid or turn the power off when you hear the obvious noise without waiting for the fill light to come on? In other words does the triggering of the fill light actually reset or restart any internal procedures?


 No you can change it before the light. It's good to do that if you can. If there is enough water a long press gives 1 litre and hot is 600ml on long press roughly.


----------



## woodbar

ratty said:


> Owner for 18 months with filter change at 16 months. Tap water is medium hard.
> 
> I have my unit installed on a worktop under cupboards and have to swivel it out to remove the water tank. I have not removed the original rubber feet but have no problem doing this with tank both empty and full. As a pensioner with various ailments including arthritis in both hands I swivel it with my hands at the bottom of the unit on opposite corners and gently turn.
> 
> Felt pads on the bottom would make this easier to turn but seriously is it a necessity?
> 
> Maybe if you have slate or another type of stone worktop that's not entirely flat!


 That sounds like a good result for filter life on "medium hard" water but how did you bypass the 12 month obligatory change filter requirement? Did you just reset without changing the filters?

My comments regarding the rubber feet were just that, my comments on my situation and I can assure you that my Zero with a full reservoir tank is impossible to push back in place without it either juddering across the surface or actually lifting it so, yes, felt pads are essential for me. (Well, not me personally but on my OZ they are!)

I have a conventional melamine style worktop although I note on close inspection that it does have a very slight textured finish - almost "orange peel" effect. As my unit is much newer then maybe the manufacturers are fitting feet made from a different compound now?


----------



## ratty

woodbar said:


> I have a conventional melamine style worktop although I note on close inspection that it does have a very slight textured finish - almost "orange peel" effect. As my unit is much newer then maybe the manufacturers are fitting feet made from a different compound now?


 Could be.

I just reset after the 12 month change filter beeps, and then checked with a TDS meter that registered no significant change to its normal variability.

*Edit:* I am the only user and refill only once per day unless I'm testing machines.


----------



## Jony

Changed my filter last 27th July. Not beeped yet


----------



## woodbar

Do you mean July 2020 or 2021?


----------



## woodbar

Just a word of warning to anyone else wanting to remove the huge label from the top of the black case - DON'T USE ALCOHOL as suggested previously - it ends up dissolving the matte effect off leaving a sort of swirl pattern in a now partly shiny black paint - totally destroyed the look of my new unit! I need a new case now!


----------



## Jony

woodbar said:


> Do you mean July 2020 or 2021?


 2020


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Like some, we also feed the zero with salt-block softened water. We have been using it for about 6 months. We change the water at around 1.5L 2-3 times a day.

On a side note, the quick-guide sticker on top of the unit and the other one on the side have never bothered us. We have left them as they are. 😊


----------



## Mark Osmio

woodbar said:


> Just a word of warning to anyone else wanting to remove the huge label from the top of the black case - DON'T USE ALCOHOL as suggested previously - it ends up dissolving the matte effect off leaving a sort of swirl pattern in a now partly shiny black paint - totally destroyed the look of my new unit! I need a new case now!


 When using alcohol wipes you have to take the alcohol off as soon as all the glue comes off, or this will happen


----------



## Mark Osmio

Mark Osmio said:


> When using alcohol wipes you have to take the alcohol off as soon as all the glue comes off, or this will happen


 I'm planning to spray one with copper paint, I think it will look cool. You can take the case off by taking off 8 screws and then totally customise the look of it, you can even vinyl wrap it. We might do photo competition for the coolest customised zero, winner gets a years worth of filters! 😜


----------



## Jony

So in my case non😂😂


----------



## woodbar

Mark Osmio said:


> When using alcohol wipes you have to take the alcohol off as soon as all the glue comes off, or this will happen


 Now you tell me!



Mark Osmio said:


> You can take the case off by taking off 8 screws and then totally customise the look of it, you can even vinyl wrap it.


 I take these are the ones exposed when you remove the reservoir - I might do that - assuming it won't void the warranty?


----------



## woodbar

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> On a side note, the quick-guide sticker on top of the unit and the other one on the side have never bothered us. We have left them as they are. 😊


 That's good I am pleased that you don't find the labels aesthetically challenging - unfortunately we do.

After all why would you need a "quick start" guide permanently disfiguring half of the top panel after the first use especially as literally all of the pictures on the suppliers website and all the reviews I could find do not have it in place?

I am sure if I said that one of the wheels had fallen off my car I could rely (ant) on someone called Robin popping up to say "yes that happened last week but not a problem"😉


----------



## Ilias

Seriously, just remove the stickers with a hair dryer. Just *gently* heat the sticker with a hairdryer (medium heat) and it will peel super easily without any residue. No need for alcohol... Just avoid using too much heat as it can melt/warp the plastic.

Ilias


----------



## woodbar

Does anyone actually read previous posts

"Just use alcohol" - I did and it has melted the matte paint!

"Oh, don't use too much as it will melt the paint" - TOO LATE!

"Just use a hair dryer" - TOO LATE!

I think I will insist on a new case or complete unit - not advertised as having stickers then when you follow the suppliers advice to remove them, so it looks like the product description, the paint is damaged after 2 days of ownership.


----------



## woodbar

My OZ seems to be working quite well now it has settled down (apart from the paint!) - refilling the reservoir on average twice a day for our usage - 2 persons - Oracle espresso machine (only about 1 litre/day) + teas etc.

I am a bit unsure whether to use filtered or tap water in the OZ?

My tap water has a TDS of about 142 at the moment.

My filter tap (fed through a Calmag R1 - carbon + ion exchange resin) is producing a higher TDS of about 154 but it definitely tastes less metallic and softer. I understand that this is because it is converting most of the Calcium and Magnesium to Sodium.

The water from the OZ is reading about 35 TDS so obviously the final filter brick is adding a small amount of minerals back.

So, what I am wondering is which type of water is going to be kinder to the filters and membrane in the OZ - the Calcium + Magnesium rich tap water or the Sodium rich filtered water?


----------



## ratty

woodbar said:


> I think I will insist on a new case or complete unit - not advertised as having stickers then when you follow the suppliers advice to remove them, so it looks like the product description, the paint is damaged after 2 days of ownership.


 Probably an idea to do a bit of research before following any advice blindly.


----------



## Griffo

Gonna order one of these (been struggling to get Ashbeck from Tesco lately and also want to cut down on plastic usage) once i've contacted them to try and get the free filters for being a member here. Was the general consensus that we don't need to add anything to the water for use in an espresso machine?


----------



## Rob1

Griffo said:


> Gonna order one of these (been struggling to get Ashbeck from Tesco lately and also want to cut down on plastic usage) once i've contacted them to try and get the free filters for being a member here. Was the general consensus that we don't need to add anything to the water for use in an espresso machine?


 The water out of RO units will vary depending on the water you put in and whether or not you use the remineralisation filter, but I'd always test alkalinity and add bicarb to bring it up to 40mg/l personally. It's a matter of preference for taste, machine health will be better off with higher alkalinity than just straight ro.


----------



## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> The water out of RO units will vary depending on the water you put in and whether or not you use the remineralisation filter, but I'd always test alkalinity and add bicarb to bring it up to 40mg/l personally. It's a matter of preference for taste, machine health will be better off with higher alkalinity than just straight ro.


 Thanks Rob. I'd use the remineralisation filter (I assume that's recommended? I'm still reading through this thread rully  ). Regarding alkalinity, do those water strips test for that?


----------



## JamesJennettWheeler

Griffo said:


> Gonna order one of these (been struggling to get Ashbeck from Tesco lately and also want to cut down on plastic usage) once i've contacted them to try and get the free filters for being a member here. Was the general consensus that we don't need to add anything to the water for use in an espresso machine?


 If you want, I'll put you down as a recommender when I order in a few weeks? And we should both get a free set of filters


----------



## Griffo

JamesJennettWheeler said:


> If you want, I'll put you down as a recommender when I order in a few weeks? And we should both get a free set of filters


 Yeah, can do if that works 

Just had confirmation that the deal is no longer active:


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## JamesJennettWheeler

Griffo said:


> Yeah, can do if that works
> 
> Just had confirmation that the deal is no longer active:
> 
> View attachment 59975


 Ah, yeah just checked the website and the deal is no longer on there. Plus it's now £45 more expensive. I do know that their bill of materials has gone up in the pandemic. I think I will just wait until there is a deal as I am not in a rush.


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## Griffo

JamesJennettWheeler said:


> Ah, yeah just checked the website and the deal is no longer on there. Plus it's now £45 more expensive. I do know that their bill of materials has gone up in the pandemic. I think I will just wait until there is a deal as I am not in a rush.


 Yeah I'm assuming they're probably made offshore so they will more than likely be paying more to get them shipped to them now as well.


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## DavecUK

@Griffo Container shipping costs have gone up massively...I think something like 5 or 6 times more.


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## Griffo

DavecUK said:


> @Griffo Container shipping costs have gone up massively...I think something like 5 or 6 times more.


 Yeah, we have a client who went from paying 2k per container, to some wanting around 16k. It's settled for them now around 8k. Absolutely ridiculous! I was surprised to find that one of the main problems was actually not having enough of the containers themselves available.


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## DavecUK

@Griffo When margins are tight, these extra costs can make a big difference. In addition to the extra costs on manufacture of almost every product. Some can be absorbed by the retailers, but not all and as existing stock works it's way out of the system, replacement stock costs more.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Rob1 said:


> The water out of RO units will vary depending on the water you put in and whether or not you use the remineralisation filter, but I'd always test alkalinity and add bicarb to bring it up to 40mg/l personally. It's a matter of preference for taste, machine health will be better off with higher alkalinity than just straight ro.


 + 1 for that.

Interesting you said that. I do test the water - not every time - from the filter as soon as I fill the pitcher. The TDS is typically 35-40, the GH is 13-17 mg/l and alkalinity is about 40 mg/l. As the water level goes down, the TDS goes north towards 75-80, while the GH and KH edge a little higher at ~20 mg/l and ~45 mg/l to ~50 mg/l respectively. All the parameters are of course with the mineralisation cartridge in. So. I don't add any bicarb as my alkalinity is already in the zone (mostly).

Edit: Please note that the supply pitcher gets salt-softener water.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

DavecUK said:


> @Griffo Container shipping costs have gone up massively...I think something like 5 or 6 times more.


 Yeah! Paolo did tell me the shipping cost - months ago at least doubled for Evo. Probably higher now.


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## Griffo

Going to order one today.

Just checked my postcode on Severn Trent for the last 12 months.

Why the hell is there arsenic, cyanide (amongst other scary looking things) in my water?! 😩

Also showing as "hard".

only thing I'm worried about (I shouldn't have read through the thread 😂) is the thing someone posted about WHO saying RO water is bad to drink. Though I'm not sure I even trust the WHO after how terrible they've been with COVID.


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## Rob1

Griffo said:


> Going to order one today.
> 
> Just checked my postcode on Severn Trent for the last 12 months.
> 
> Why the hell is there arsenic, cyanide (amongst other scary looking things) in my water?! 😩


 Because they're natural products found in in fruits, plants etc. Other things run off from soil which might have pesticide and fertilisers in it. Metals get picked up in soil and old pipes + good old pollution/waste dumping.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Griffo said:


> only thing I'm worried about (I shouldn't have read through the thread 😂) is the thing someone posted about WHO saying RO water is bad to drink.


 A lot of forum members have been drinking this for a long time. @DavecUK and his family, I think, have been drinking the RO water for >10 years. For a lot of us, it's a sensible thing to do; we at home use the remineralised Osmio Zero for drinking, beverages, feeding into the coffee machine and cooking. The bottom line is clear - we do not depend on water to provide us the vital vitamins and minerals. 😊

This works for us; it's up to you to decide if it will for you and your family.

Disclosure : Neither I have read that thread nor going to!


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## DavecUK

Griffo said:


> only thing I'm worried about (I shouldn't have read through the thread 😂) is the thing someone posted about WHO saying RO water is bad to drink. Though I'm not sure I even trust the WHO after how terrible they've been with COVID.


 Things a lot of people don't realise...if you breathe air, it will kill you...I have proof. Same for eating food, watching TV, sleeping, weqaring clothes, nudism etc......all fatal in the long run.


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## Griffo

Got one of those TDS testers coming today too. According to Severn Trent the water is 17.77 degrees Clark (not 100% sure what that even means), which according to a chart I found is between 250 - 300 ppm.

https://monarchwater.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Water-hardness-conversion-table.pdf


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## Griffo

TDS and ph tester is here. I assume I have to do the calibration before use? Is the water from the osmio suitable for this or do I need to get distilled water like it says in the manual?


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## DavecUK

@Griffo Make some distilled from your steam arm.


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## Rob1

Griffo said:


> Got one of those TDS testers coming today too. According to Severn Trent the water is 17.77 degrees Clark (not 100% sure what that even means), which according to a chart I found is between 250 - 300 ppm.
> 
> https://monarchwater.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Water-hardness-conversion-table.pdf


 You can't get hardness from TDS. The ppm mentioned in the link you posted is not for converting TDS as ppm it is for converting between all the different expressions of hardness e.g mg/l (ppm) to degrees etc. You need a KH/GH drop test kit to test alkalinity and hardness.


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## joffy

Was looking into getting a Osmio Zero instead of buying Tesco Ashbeck, but I live in Ipswich, the UK's worst water area.









So would cost so much more with regualr filter changes.


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## Mark Osmio

joffy said:


> Was looking into getting a Osmio Zero instead of buying Tesco Ashbeck, but I live in Ipswich, the UK's worst water area.
> 
> View attachment 60035
> 
> 
> So would cost so much more with regualr filter changes.


 As long as your on mains drainage you should get a water softener and use that in the ro system, it's best to also use a carbon block before the softener in order to protect the resin from damage from chemicals and the valve from suspended solids. Doing this will make the softener last longer and protect your plumbing and heating system and all water based appliances.


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## joffy

In rented place, so limited options. Just have to keep recycling those plastic bottles I guess.


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## Mark Osmio

joffy said:


> In rented place, so limited options.


 A softener isn't more complicated than a washing machine, or you can take it with you when you move easily


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## JamesJennettWheeler

Mark Osmio said:


> A softener isn't more complicated than a washing machine, or you can take it with you when you move easily


 Are you meaning a softer for one appliance? Because whole home softness require plumbing


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## Mark Osmio

JamesJennettWheeler said:


> Are you meaning a softer for one appliance? Because whole home softness require plumbing


 I would do it for the whole house and plumb it in and your just leaving a bypass if you leave and take it away


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## joffy

Just gonna stick with bottled I think. I do have the Osmio shower head though and it's great.


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## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> You can't get hardness from TDS. The ppm mentioned in the link you posted is not for converting TDS as ppm it is for converting between all the different expressions of hardness e.g mg/l (ppm) to degrees etc. You need a KH/GH drop test kit to test alkalinity and hardness.


 This kind of thing?

Osmio water:










Volvic:










Does this look ok to go straight in my machine?


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## Rob1

Griffo said:


> This kind of thing?
> 
> Osmio water:
> 
> 
> 
> Volvic:
> 
> 
> 
> Does this look ok to go straight in my machine?


 Alkalinity is probably low. The strips aren't very accurate and don't really provide a good resolution. A drop test kit is one where you add reagents to a sample of water, and you can alter the amount of the sample to alter the resolution. e.g. use 20ml instead of 5ml.

Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Aquarium-Water-1-Count/dp/B003SNCHMA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=gh%2Fkh+drop+kit&qid=1632763625&sr=8-1


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## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> Alkalinity is probably low. The strips aren't very accurate and don't really provide a good resolution. A drop test kit is one where you add reagents to a sample of water, and you can alter the amount of the sample to alter the resolution. e.g. use 20ml instead of 5ml.
> 
> Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Aquarium-Water-1-Count/dp/B003SNCHMA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=gh%2Fkh+drop+kit&qid=1632763625&sr=8-1


 Great - just ordered a kit. Thank you!


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## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> Alkalinity is probably low. The strips aren't very accurate and don't really provide a good resolution. A drop test kit is one where you add reagents to a sample of water, and you can alter the amount of the sample to alter the resolution. e.g. use 20ml instead of 5ml.
> 
> Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwater-Aquarium-Water-1-Count/dp/B003SNCHMA/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=gh%2Fkh+drop+kit&qid=1632763625&sr=8-1


 Hey rob,

Just tested the osmio water using this kit and both KH and GH took 3 drops to change the colour. Have attached the chart


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## Inspector

Can 9 months old filters be still used after sterilizing the unit?

We were away for more than 2 months, i have left the machine as is with water in it. I know current filters still have plenty of life in them just wondering if bacteria grew in filters after 2.5 months?

Or should i just use new pack of filters after sterilizing.


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## Rob1

Griffo said:


> Hey rob,
> 
> Just tested the osmio water using this kit and both KH and GH took 3 drops to change the colour. Have attached the chart
> 
> View attachment 60098


 I assume you used a 5ml sample if you're going off the instructions. You're somewhere between 35.8 and 71.6 if you've used a 5ml sample. Quite a wide bracket.

If its 53.7ppm gh/kh you'll get scale in a service boiler.........however this is only true if alkalinity comes from carbonate sources which is apparently not the case with the Osmio remineralisation filter. If it's not from carbonates then you're ok at least from a scaling perspective regardless of temperature.


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## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> I assume you used a 5ml sample if you're going off the instructions. You're somewhere between 35.8 and 71.6 if you've used a 5ml sample. Quite a wide bracket.
> 
> If its 53.7ppm gh/kh you'll get scale in a service boiler.........however this is only true if alkalinity comes from carbonate sources which is apparently not the case with the Osmio remineralisation filter. If it's not from carbonates then you're ok at least from a scaling perspective regardless of temperature.


 Awesome - would you not bother adding anything to it then?

edit: yeah I used 5ml


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## Rob1

I wouldn't add anything to it, certainly not bicarboante, and I would test a 20ml sample to get a more accurate reading. You just divide the steps e.g with 20ml 4 drops = 1 drop.


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## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> I wouldn't add anything to it, certainly not bicarboante, and I would test a 20ml sample to get a more accurate reading. You just divide the steps e.g with 20ml 4 drops = 1 drop.


 I'll do a bigger sample size a bit later. Thanks for your help!


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## Griffo

Rob1 said:


> I wouldn't add anything to it, certainly not bicarboante, and I would test a 20ml sample to get a more accurate reading. You just divide the steps e.g with 20ml 4 drops = 1 drop.


 So with 20ml it was:

10 drops for KH

11 drops for GH


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Inspector said:


> should i just use new pack of filters after sterilizing.


 The filters are not very expensive, IMO. Considering the bacteria risk, I would personally prefer a new filter.

BTW, leaving the water in the machine for such a long period of absence is not advised. Please sterilise the supply pitcher as well, when you change the filter.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Griffo said:


> So with 20ml it was:
> 
> 10 drops for KH
> 
> 11 drops for GH


 You are looking at 44.75 mg/l and 49.23 mg/l for KH and GH respectively.

Are you feeding hard water directly ? The readings, though remineralised, seem on the higher side.


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## Griffo

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> You are looking at 44.75 mg/l and 49.23 mg/l for KH and GH respectively.
> 
> Are you feeding hard water directly ? The readings, though remineralised, seem on the higher side.


 Yeah straight from the tap in a hard water area.


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## Inspector

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> The filters are not very expensive, IMO. Considering the bacteria risk, I would personally prefer a new filter.
> 
> BTW, leaving the water in the machine for such a long period of absence is not advised. Please sterilise the supply pitcher as well, when you change the filter.


 Yes after seeing the algea growth on sediment filter in water tank i will replace all filters after cleaning and sanitization.

We had to leave urgently for a funeral abroad didnt think about emptying the machine that time. Even if i did think, didnt have time for it. Next time i will empty internal tank also before i leave.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

@Inspector Very sorry to hear your loss.

I assume you're not drinking / using the water from the unit. 😊 Full sanitisation and replacement of the filter are in order.

@Mark Osmio is your person should you require any assistance!


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## Inspector

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> @Inspector Very sorry to hear your loss.
> 
> I assume you're not drinking / using the water from the unit. 😊 Full sanitisation and replacement of the filter are in order.
> 
> @Mark Osmio is your person should you require any assistance!


 Thanks,

No didnt use the machine since we came back, washed the supply pitcher throughly and now i am in the middle of sterilizing process.


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## Griffo

Tested again using 20ml. Gone even worse:

49.225 kh

67.125 gh

 *scratches head*


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## Griffo

Another check today:

26.85 KH

40.275 GH

Really don't understand how it is fluctuating so much. Is it because it's a relatively new unit? *shrugs*


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## Sean T

Ilias said:


> Just heat it up with a hair dryer. Never failed me. Just don't heat it too much that the plastic melts 😛
> 
> And then clean with alcohol (even hand sanitiser will work  )


 Cheers. Worked perfectly removing the very large sticker on the top of mine. And no residue left either, peeled off cleanly in one go.


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## iroko

I did a sanitisation and descale routine on my Osmio over the weekend and it started leaking after new filter's were installed. It took a while to work out the problem, the RO filter turned out to be a carbon block filter, as picture shows. Luckily I had another spare set.

Something to check next time you do a filter change.


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## DavecUK

@iroko You should let Mark at osmio know.....


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## iroko

Yes, I'll let him Know.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Sorry, I didn't follow. Could some one explain please ? Thanks


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## El carajillo

iroko said:


> I did a sanitisation and descale routine on my Osmio over the weekend and it started leaking after new filter's were installed. It took a while to work out the problem, the RO filter turned out to be a carbon block filter, as picture shows. Luckily I had another spare set.
> 
> Something to check next time you do a filter change.
> 
> View attachment 60471


 Which are you saying is wrong ? The white one appears to be wrong.

The two black ones are the same as mine .


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## DavecUK

@El carajillo Look at the top connections


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## Mark Osmio

Unfortunately we had a mislabelled batch around May June time, and of course they would leak right away. Our apologies. If you email [email protected] by replying or your order we will correct that and send the right one out.


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## DavecUK

Mark Osmio said:


> Unfortunately we had a mislabelled batch around May June time, and of course they would leak right away. Our apologies. If you email [email protected] by replying or your order we will correct that and send the right one out.


 Do you have a photo or can you describe which of the 3 cartridges in the photo is incorrect? I think the one on the right with the taller stem and 2 o rings on, is the RO membrane?


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## woodbar

DavecUK said:


> I think the one on the right with the taller stem and 2 o rings on, is the RO membrane?


 I think you are correct - I just took my spare ones out of the plastic bags to check and they are different to each other (thankfully) and the RO is as you describe as I assume that has 3 orifices - input/output/backflush?


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## iroko

The one on the right is correct, the one in the middle has RO label but should be carbon block label.


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## El carajillo

Took mine out to check, long centre + 2 'O' rings. :good:


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## iroko

Update: Thanks to @Mark Osmio and Osmio team, I have been sent a replacement RO membrane cartridge. Excellent customer service, Highly recommended product, this is one of the best things that I have purchased. 👍 🙂


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## Sean T

Hi everyone. If anyone is looking to buy but undecided Planet Organic currently have 15% off, so £378 delivered. Hopefully no issue posting that here, a sale's a sale after all.


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## JahLaza

So, I've dedicated a pint glass to drinking water during the day from my osmio zero. I have noticed a whiteish residue on the inside of the glass and wonder if it's carbonate hardness? I have left all 4 filters in place in the osmio and changed at 5 months. I wash the inside and outside of the glass thoroughly periodically, confirm ing it is sparklingly clean, but notice the residual colour returns. It sparks my attention! Could this be simply due to the added back minerals from the re - mineralisation in the unit and is not in any way harmful to my Lelit Elizabeth? Or maybe there is more hardness than should be getting through in which case I will be getting boiler issues. Ultimately, is there a quick way to check inside the Elizabeth to see if there is any residue from the water? I bought some aquarium test strips recently which confirm the osmio is doing what it should wrt hardness reduction, and chloride and everything else the strips test for, but these are test strips, pretty crude subjective results. Any observations from others on this?


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## Mark Osmio

JahLaza said:


> So, I've dedicated a pint glass to drinking water during the day from my osmio zero. I have noticed a whiteish residue on the inside of the glass and wonder if it's carbonate hardness? I have left all 4 filters in place in the osmio and changed at 5 months. I wash the inside and outside of the glass thoroughly periodically, confirm ing it is sparklingly clean, but notice the residual colour returns. It sparks my attention! Could this be simply due to the added back minerals from the re - mineralisation in the unit and is not in any way harmful to my Lelit Elizabeth? Or maybe there is more hardness than should be getting through in which case I will be getting boiler issues. Ultimately, is there a quick way to check inside the Elizabeth to see if there is any residue from the water? I bought some aquarium test strips recently which confirm the osmio is doing what it should wrt hardness reduction, and chloride and everything else the strips test for, but these are test strips, pretty crude subjective results. Any observations from others on this?


 The 4th stage remineralised is remineralising the water with calcium and magnesium and affecting the pH and ORP of the water, to make it negatively charged. If any of that is not what you want, then you can use the empty 4th stage filter that is part of the sanitisation kit, but it is recommended to use it because positive ORP water is way more corrosive that negatively ORP water, which happens to be much healthier for the body to, in as far as donating negative electrons.


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## JahLaza

Hi @Mark Osmio thanks for that. So is what I'm seeing in the glass that re- mineralisation you think? I'm very happy with the principle you describe above (and have seen you detailing it elsewhere here,sorry you had to repeat!) and using it, but wondered about the residue I observed and if it also then resides within the boiler. Will that build up with time then which is not what we want? I know I'm nit picking a bit here and am very happy with the osmio zero but&#8230;. the curiosity in me!


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## Mark Osmio

JahLaza said:


> Hi @Mark Osmio thanks for that. So is what I'm seeing in the glass that re- mineralisation you think? I'm very happy with the principle you describe above (and have seen you detailing it elsewhere here,sorry you had to repeat!) and using it, but wondered about the residue I observed and if it also then resides within the boiler. Will that build up with time then which is not what we want? I know I'm nit picking a bit here and am very happy with the osmio zero but&#8230;. the curiosity in me!


 If you used reverse osmosis with deionisation like we have with the Osmio HT+ lab and dental reverse osmosis system then you would see nothing, but with hot water systems a level of ionisation through remineralisation is generally considered preferable and for coffee too, although there are a multitude of different options on the matter. You could for example take water out of the Osmio Zero and put it in. Zero Water Jug to make it 0 Tds if you want but you then would exacerbate the corrision of the boiler. So it's all about balance 🙏😊


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

@JahLaza Please grab the GH and KH drop kit. Test on 20ml water each and standardise it for 5 ml. You can do the same by drawing water from your Liz and test the water at the room temperature.


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## JahLaza

Didn't want to start another debate on the whole thing, there's enough of it around, and well detailed on the forum and elsewhere! Thank you for the advise however @Like Medium Strong Coffee and maybe I will at some stage get that kit. I'm very happy with what the osmio is producing and I bought an all round test strip kit to test for chlorine nitrates, total and 'calcium hardness' etc I suppose I could buy the drop kit you mention but probably not necessary eh?! I just thought I'd share what I observed and it got me wondering then if it will in fact build up in the boiler but the general consensus is that this is not harmful then? Even long term..?


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee

@JahLaza You mentioned hardness getting through and boiler issues in your previous posts.

The test strips are not good, IMO. The drop kit will help you get a very good indication of the general hardness and alkalinity, should they be of any concern to you.

If you are using Osmio zero, I doubt the stainless steel boilers will scale. You can test the boiler water, say every 3 months - if you wish, and go from there.


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## 28267

@Mark Osmio We've has our machine approaching 9 months now, no issues with the machine and I can notice the difference if someone gives me tap water.

We've one minor niggle, the metallic finish on the drip tray seems to have worn away in a couple of places down to the white plastic underneath. Is this something anyone else is suffering with?

I don't really like the slightly pink finish of this so was considering spray painting it matt black, not sure if the current finish would take a new finish?


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## Mark Osmio

AdG said:


> @Mark Osmio We've has our machine approaching 9 months now, no issues with the machine and I can notice the difference if someone gives me tap water.
> 
> We've one minor niggle, the metallic finish on the drip tray seems to have worn away in a couple of places down to the white plastic underneath. Is this something anyone else is suffering with?
> 
> I don't really like the slightly pink finish of this so was considering spray painting it matt black, not sure if the current finish would take a new finish?


 It's something inevitable with normal wear and tear, I haven't yet tried respraying one but I would imagine it lasting about the same amount of time before bits come off. I've for some copper spray paint to match it with our copper bar at the cafe, thinking to customise the sides too.


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## woodbar

I have noticed over the last week or so, when selecting hot water, that several times my Zero has produced a few seconds of cold water before the heater turns on? Very similar to the flush it does sometimes when you have turned the mains off for a bit.

Anyway, today, it has totally failed! It immediately dispenses cold water irrespective of your temperature selection and the heater does not switch on at all!

In view of the intermittent oddities over the last week or so I suspect it could be a control problem rather than the element itself?

Just as well we did not put the kettle up in the loft although I will still have to climb up there to get the box for the return of the Zero - unless there is an easy DIY fix!


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## woodbar

OK, my Zero has been back to Osmio and seems to be working again - fingers crossed as it seemed a bit of an intermittent fault.

In fact I was told that the unit worked faultlessly when they tested it but to be on the safe side they replaced the element which apparently also incorporates the overheat device and fuse so that is excellent service.

The only slight disappointment was the time it took for the process - I dropped it off at the PO on a Tuesday and received it back on Friday of the following week - so a bit longer than the 2-3 day turnaround quoted as normal! To be fair I missed the Parcel Force collection on the day I sent it back and apparently DPD missed a collection on the day it was ready to come back so that does account for an extra 2 days!


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## AndyDClements

Maybe some of the extra time was due to it working correctly when they tested it, That would make it more difficult to identify the fault and even more difficult to know if its resolved.


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## woodbar

Maybe.....?

However, if it works correctly when tested it is impossible to "identify the fault" as it does not exist at that moment in time. It is also impossible to "know if it's resolved" as there was actually nothing to resolve!

Thankfully, they took a best guess approach and replaced the most likely part which, depending on the cost, is better than returning the unit as "no fault found" with the likelihood of the customer having to return the item again for the same problem thereby increasing the customers dissatisfaction as well as further carriage and labour costs. As I said earlier - excellent!

I can only reiterate the *slight disappointment * was it took 5 days in the workshop rather than the published 2-3 days. Not a big deal, just recounting my experience.


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## Karka

Just resurrecting this thread. What was the general consensus on descaling a coffee machine when using just water from an Osmio? I used an Osmio zero for around a year and a year on the Osmio fusion. The remineralisation filter left in, so using them as standard and changing filters every 6 months.

I have an ACS Vesuvius and just wondering if I need to descale or if it’s not necessary using Osmio.


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## woodbar

Interesting question - my Mara X is 15 months old and I have been using a half and half mix of Zero water (with remineralisation filter) plus water from the under sink softener filter which is carbon block/ionised resin construction.

I changed the Zero filters at about 1 year old, a couple of months ago, after I had done a sterilisation procedure even though I have never had the "maintenance" warning light.

I am also wondering whether I should really be descaling my Lelit now!


----------

