# Londinium R



## Thecatlinux

With the release of a new thoroughbred out of the Londinium stable almost upon us , how many people on the forum are interested in getting there hands on one ?

Has any one placed an order ? And how many L1 owners are feeling a bit twitchy and contemplating the plunge ?

It will also be nice to see what people think if they done an upgrade or are buying a Londinium for the first time.

i might be wrong but I think they are shipping tomorrow .


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## coffeechap

I have one coming and will be organising a lever session at Rave to compare both this and the original l1 side by side.


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## Thecatlinux

Who can get some photos up ,obviously internal pictures as the outside is the same as the L1.


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## Thecatlinux

coffeechap said:


> I have one coming and will be organising a lever session at Rave to compare both this and the original l1 side by side.


 No suprise there then

rave day sounds good


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## Snakehips

Thecatlinux said:


> With the release of a new thoroughbred out of the Londinium stable almost upon us , how many people on the forum are interested in getting there hands on one ?
> 
> Has any one placed an order ? And how many L1 owners are feeling a bit twitchy and contemplating the plunge ?
> 
> It will also be nice to see what people think if they done an upgrade or are buying a Londinium for the first time.
> 
> i might be wrong but I think they are shipping tomorrow .


Well, I for one have already twitched and plunged but will not take delivery until the back end of March.

Wall art mod pending!


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## NickdeBug

In a nutshell, what are the differences between the L1 and the LR?


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## coffeechap

NickdeBug said:


> In a nutshell, what are the differences between the L1 and the LR?


Rotary pump, adjustable preinfusion akin to the l-1 p, do more body, better at lighter roasts, ability to go big on doses.


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## doolallysquiff

coffeechap said:


> I have one coming and will be organising a lever session at Rave to compare both this and the original l1 side by side.


Please organise on a day that I'm unable to attend or I can see this being a very expensive day


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## Heligan

coffeechap said:


> I have one coming and will be organising a lever session at Rave to compare both this and the original l1 side by side.


Where do I sign up?









Any idea of a date yet?


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## coffeechap

Heligan said:


> Where do I sign up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea of a date yet?


No date yet but will post up a new thread


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## NickdeBug

coffeechap said:


> Rotary pump, adjustable preinfusion akin to the l-1 p, do more body, better at lighter roasts, ability to go big on doses.


Cheers Dave

Sounds good


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## mfortin

It would be nice to have a video so as to see from where the lever is grabbing and beverage weight you can actually get out of it. Pictures from the inside would be lovely too.


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## coffeechap

Thinking of returning to the fold Martin?


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## Thecatlinux

If the pre infusion is set for 3 bar is this going to create similar output to a plumbed in L1


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## Tewdric

Pre infusion is still boiler pressure on a plumbed.

Personally I need the quick warm up time and like medium dark roasts so I'm sticking.


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## coffeechap

Heat up time can be done quicker. I will report back on this latet


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## mfortin

coffeechap said:


> Thinking of returning to the fold Martin?


It is working hard on me...


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## coffeechap

surely that slayer of your would take a lot of beating


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## Mrboots2u

coffeechap said:


> surely that slayer of your would take a lot of beating


Sold aint it ?


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## mfortin

Mrboots2u said:


> Sold aint it ?


A year ago...


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## coffeechap

why? they are the pinnacle aren't they?


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## Thecatlinux

Slight delay but not far away

View attachment 24663


And quick look of the internal layout

which one is yours Dave ???


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## arellim

Do they swap in the wooden handles after; or has the design changed?


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## Thecatlinux

They will get swapped and they will ship with wenge (wooden)handles


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> Slight delay but not far away
> 
> View attachment 24663
> 
> 
> And quick look of the internal layout
> 
> which one is yours Dave ???


The one at the other end


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## Thecatlinux

Looking in the picture I wonder if the black and silver thing next to the machine in the foreground ,is the rotary pump.

???

View attachment 24669


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## Thecatlinux

@coffeechap any news ? Will you be blessed this weekend .?


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## coffeechap

Saturday or Monday !


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## NickdeBug

I hate this forum.

It's like mackerel fishing. Just attach something shiny to the end of the line and reel us in!

If I ever switch to a lever then I think that it will be this one.


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## Thecatlinux

NickdeBug said:


> I hate this forum.
> 
> It's like mackerel fishing. Just attach something shiny to the end of the line and reel us in!
> 
> If I ever switch to a lever then I think that it will be this one.


beg borrow or simply save up , make the leap and you will never need to buy another machine ,EVER !


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## grumpydaddy

Thecatlinux said:


> beg borrow or simply save up , make the leap *and you will never need to buy another machine ,EVER !*


It doesn't work like that.... no really...... There are a bunch of folks here owning the L1 who probably thought that..... Hmmmm Now what are at least some of those folks thinking ??


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## Snakehips

Confucious he say "No matter how shiny his coffee machine, a mackerel is still a mackerel !"


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## Thecatlinux

grumpydaddy said:


> It doesn't work like that.... no really...... There are a bunch of folks here owning the L1 who probably thought that..... Hmmmm Now what are at least some of those folks thinking ??


Initially I had the same reservation when I found out about the new Londinium machine , but since then and on reflection I am still very happy with the machine I have . The coffee It helps me produce it is right up my street , nothing has really changed I am still very content with it , there are many other machines ,they may look like my machine but this is my machine and I am sticking with it .

Dont ask me about grinders that's a whole different matter , buts that's because I belive each one has its own characteristics


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## coffeechap

Woo hoo Monday delivery


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## Thecatlinux

coffeechap said:


> Woo hoo Monday delivery


 Just hope it's not DPD


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## coffeechap

thecatlinux said:


> just hope it's not dpd


dhl


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## mfortin

Frans already got his... see HB.


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## coffeechap

Good for fran


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## mathof

grumpydaddy said:


> It doesn't work like that.... no really...... There are a bunch of folks here owning the L1 who probably thought that..... Hmmmm Now what are at least some of those folks thinking ??


I'm thinking that given my preference for 7-16g pucks, made up of med and med/dk roasts, there would be no gain in the cup. Consequently, I see no compelling reason for me to upgrade.

Matt


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## Thecatlinux

I am assuming the pump will have to run each and everytime the lever is pulled ?


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## coffeechap

Pump runs for about a second or two to preinfuse


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## Thecatlinux

no more silent shots then


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## Snakehips

Thecatlinux said:


> no more silent shots then


Are your L1 shots silent? I always had 4 to 5 seconds of vibe pump whilst pulling a shot on the old L1.


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## mfortin

It still can be plumbed in for complete silence.


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## Thecatlinux

Snakehips said:


> Are your L1 shots silent? I always had 4 to 5 seconds of vibe pump whilst pulling a shot on the old L1.


my pump doesn't run everytime during the shot ,

sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't


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## Snakehips

Thecatlinux said:


> my pump doesn't run everytime during the shot ,
> 
> sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't


Mine pretty much did for each and every shot.

Pre grind and pull I did always draw a small amount of water off in order to warm two cups. Generally that in itself did not trigger the pump but I suppose it contributed to the pump then kicking in during the pull ?


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## Grahamg

I think I can understand the desire to upgrade now I've spent a little time with my new (was snakehips'!) L1 and after playing with the L1P at the lever day - not something I feel I'd benefit greatly from (and certainly couldn't justify the price difference of buying one new), but for a better pre-infusion and longer shots to get the best of some beans/roasts, I get it.


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## coffeechap

mfortin said:


> It still can be plumbed in for complete silence.


need to make sure you have sufficient water pressure though


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## mfortin

coffeechap said:


> need to make sure you have sufficient water pressure though


true


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## NickdeBug

I guess we know what CC will be doing today!


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## Rhys

NickdeBug said:


> I guess we know what CC will be doing today!


Bouncing off the walls, high on caffeine with his arm in a sling from over-exertion









I'm guessing it'll be like christmas all over again for the lucky so-an-so's today


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## coffeechap

A few photos of the insides for those who are interested


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## Beanosaurus

Rhys said:


> Bouncing off the walls, high on caffeine with his arm in a sling from over-exertion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing it'll be like christmas all over again for the lucky so-an-so's today


Your avatar is amazing!


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## coffeechap

Must say having used my lovely new shiney thing for first time, that new pump (third picture) is supeR fast and Really quiet compared to the vibe it replaces.


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## ianskelly

defiantly not jealous....are you noticing much difference in shot quality atmo compared to the "old" L1? I was hoping to pick up a used l1 as I thought people would be selling to upgrade, its making buy a new one more tempting. just need to factor the divorce cost into the purchase price.....


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## coffeechap

A couple more photos of it in situ. Forgot how lovely these are, been some time since my bench was adorned with the little londinium


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## arellim

Looks epic! So very jealous! I love the little 'step-up'; is that custom of yours?

The wood on the handles look a little different- perhaps just a bit smoother than my 'used' ones.

I imagine you'll be looking to offload some spare grinders to pay for it...









Enjoy!


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## coffeechap

ianskelly said:


> defiantly not jealous....are you noticing much difference in shot quality atmo compared to the "old" L1? I was hoping to pick up a used l1 as I thought people would be selling to upgrade, its making buy a new one more tempting. just need to factor the divorce cost into the purchase price.....


Ok initial thoughts having pulled a few shots today, tried two very different coffees a darker roasted Ethiopian and a medium roasted Brazilian. I have not adjusted the machine at all, that will come in a couple of days.

Firstly the darker roast, ground using the ceado e92, not a lot of difference to a standard l1, however shot volume is up, so bigger doses up to 22 g will be achieved with ease! A little more body similar sweetness and in milk no difference at all.

However the lighter roasted coffee was just like the l-1p used to pull, used the mythos went long on the extraction 18g into 50 and wow! Such a sweet fruit filled explosion in my mouth. It's early days but will report back with more as I play with the L-R.


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## Rhys

Looks sweet! Which model of Mythos is that? Didn't think EU models came with a grinds tray and 5 buttons?


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## coffeechap

Rhys said:


> Looks sweet! Which model of Mythos is that? Didn't think EU models came with a grinds tray and 5 buttons?


They don't come in gloss black either!


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## Thecatlinux

Still trying to get an idea of the pump size Dave , is it as big as a can of lager ??


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## NickR

I can see why Reiss initially made the L1 Lux - ALL Londiniums are so nice inside, so solid and well made.

(Well they are now)


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## Thecatlinux

after speaking to Dave I have to say my ears pricked up when he said longer shots possible with a single lever pull , had to listen to the pump over the phone but any concerns of pump running each time you pull the lever was quashed as the run time was so small and from what I could work out the pump is quiet .

urge to see this in the flesh now .


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> after speaking to Dave I have to say my ears pricked up when he said longer shots possible with a single lever pull , had to listen to the pump over the phone but any concerns of pump running each time you pull the lever was quashed as the run time was so small and from what I could work out the pump is quiet .
> 
> urge to see this in the flesh now .


The opportunity will happen soon


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## Thecatlinux

Forgot to ask

Heat up time ?


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## coffeechap

If you don't cheat, 40 mins, had mine up to temp in 20


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## Thecatlinux

I was going to say I better lock myself away till all this has blown over , but I don't have to as to quote the kinks

"the taxman has taken all my dough "

LOL


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## coffeechap

Resist resist resist


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## Heligan

Thecatlinux said:


> ...had to listen to the pump over the phone but any concerns of pump running each time you pull the lever was quashed as the run time was so small and from what I could work out the pump is quiet


Hmm, that's been my concern. Only way to be 100% convinced is to see (and hear) LR vs L1 side by side.


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## coffeechap

Heligan said:


> Hmm, that's been my concern. Only way to be 100% convinced is to see (and hear) LR vs L1 side by side.


It won't be too long


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## Soll

Hmmm! Londinium R . I just viewed Frans video on YouTube.


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## thebookfreak58

Looks awesome. Any chance for some more pictures of the internals?

Interested in how the pump is wired and the water path? Especially the manifold/tee point.

Is there an expansion valve (OPV) up the top?


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## coffeechap

thebookfreak58 said:


> Looks awesome. Any chance for some more pictures of the internals?
> 
> Interested in how the pump is wired and the water path? Especially the manifold/tee point.
> 
> Is there an expansion valve (OPV) up the top?


Have re assembled and placed on bench now, you will be welcome to come to the L1 vs LR day to see for yourself, or alternatively you could buy one.


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## stevogums

Very tempted been more than happy with my current L1, really fancy an upgrade plus I'm sure I could find a home for my older L1. Not sure if I can resist ?


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## grumpydaddy




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## birchgra

Just received notification from Reiss that my LR has been sent and will be arriving on Monday!









Big surprise for me, though, as I thought that mine was going to be in the second batch!

The problem I have now though is that, having sold my old machine and given the previous 'coffee kitchen space' over to SWMBO, I have only just started building the new 'coffee area' in the dining room as I was thinking that I still had quite a while to complete it!

Looks like its going to be a busy weekend if I'm going to be ready for the new arrival in a couple of days! Very nice problem to have though!


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## Thecatlinux

Like you say a nice problem to have ,Not many people saying 'roll on Monday ' at the start of the weekend .


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## ianskelly

Nice ! I'm thinking unless a used l1 comes up this weekend I might order the LR, I sold my giotto a few weeks ago and the cafetiere just isn't hitting the spot, the second batch are being built at the end of feb so I'll still have a wait but It'll be worth it


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## Thecatlinux

ianskelly said:


> Nice ! I'm thinking unless a used l1 comes up this weekend I might order the LR, I sold my giotto a few weeks ago and the cafetiere just isn't hitting the spot, the second batch are being built at the end of feb so I'll still have a wait but It'll be worth it


put up a wanted ad , someone might be thinking of taking the upgrade option


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## coffeechap

ianskelly said:


> the second batch are being built at the end of feb so I'll still have a wait but It'll be worth it


It is indeed, I am loving my L-R such a quiet pump, loads of body, just fab


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## ianskelly

If I buy the lr I think I will get the 2 hole steam tip, is there anything else anyone would recommend buying at the same to avoid the postage charge? I think you just get a double basket and a potafilter on the website it has 18gr vst and ims shower screen etc


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## Snakehips

Ian, I think you will find that the L-R ships with just a bottomless pf so a double will be an extra at about £55 from memory.

Not essential by any means but I am a fan of the 35micron IMS shower screen so maybe worth getting. Also perhaps grab a service kit for group seals.

Edit I now see you said double basket not double spout pf.


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## NickdeBug

Give Lee at foundry a shout and see if he can put a package together to your spec.


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## Snakehips

NickdeBug said:


> Give Lee at foundry a shout and see if he can put a package together to your spec.


^ That's what I have done.


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## ianskelly

probably a daft question but whats the benefit of the ims shower screen? and the 18g vst?


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## Snakehips

ianskelly said:


> probably a daft question but whats the benefit of the ims shower screen? and the 18g vst?


The IMS screens offer improved distribution of flow. The 200 micron is perforated rather than a woven mesh and is somewhat easier to keep clean than other OEM screens. The 35 micron is a woven mesh but its actually finer than the 200 micron. From a cleanliness / maintenance point of view, the bottom of my L1 piston never got particularly dirty when I used the 200 but I would imagine that the 35 will keep it even cleaner. I seem to recall that Reiss recommends the 35 for levers rather than for pump machines.


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## holdtheonions

I got two-hole steam tip, vst basket, and 35 screen and I wouldn't buy any of it again. I would only buy two-hole tip if usually steaming enough milk for one drink. If you usually steam for two drinks at a time, then 4-hole tip is right one. Just my opinion. I would highly recommend a hex screwdriver, the included allen key is a pain.


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## forzajuve

Rather than the stock IMS screens, I would recommend the Cafelat IMS lever screen which IMHO is far superior given the hole pattern which for me gives a much more even flow.


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## birchgra

Thecatlinux said:


> Like you say a nice problem to have ,Not many people saying 'roll on Monday ' at the start of the weekend .


It just got even better...I've just had a visit from a nice DHL man!! He said that parcels were piling up for Monday so they were given some extra time to deliver the parcels in my area today instead!

Just finished the last coat of Oil on my new installation for the LR but I'm out at an event tonight so unpacking will have to wait until the morning!


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## Thecatlinux

Although for some reason I belive the IMS screen keeps everything cleaner , in reality it doesn't get that dirty piston side anyhow due to the characteristics of how a spring lever works .

A simple removal of the shower screen a quick wipe and away you go .

This in turn is just one of the reasons I have been a lever convert ever since .


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## ianskelly

Result! Enjoy! But don't forget to post


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## coffeechap

For those of you that are interested in the difference of the grab when the L-R has been set to 3 bar preinfusion pressure and 1 bar boiler pressure.....


__
http://instagr.am/p/BQJXT2ZBGWN/

The new rotary pump is really quiet and really quick!


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## Thecatlinux

That's quite a bit of difference , is that down to a greater pressure produced in the group ? Or as I suspect more volume of water?


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## coffeechap

The greater pressure gives a better and quicker complete saturation of the puck which in turn gives greater volume. What is interesting is that the sweet spot on the shot has broadened due to a greater band with of pressure on the shot, so now the shot begins at a slightly higher start pressure as the spring is working from a more compressed start position.


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## thebookfreak58

Lots of interesting info about grab.

In this video you see the same group (dipper config with boiler pressure PI ~1.2bar) with similar lever grab and >50g volume out. So hard to know what is true or not...


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## mathof

thebookfreak58 said:


> Lots of interesting info about grab.
> 
> In this video you see the same group (dipper config with boiler pressure PI ~1.2bar) with similar lever grab and >50g volume out. So hard to know what is true or not...


There is quite a difference in what happens before lifting the lever in the two videos. The Cafelat video shows a much longer pre-infusion which ends after the puck has begun to drip. The R1 pre-infusion is shorter and does not seem to end with dripping. The result is the same though in that both pucks are fully infused, which allows the lever to grab at a lower point.

My speculation is that lighter coffees, ground very fine to help with extraction, benefit from the 3-bar pressure provided by the rotary pump. Darker coffees, which don't need to be ground so fine to extract well, should enable a low lever grab with the boiler pressure of the original L1 (and the new seals). In fact, Rees says that you won't taste any difference in the cup between the two machines unless you use large doses of light coffee.

Matt


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## coffeechap

Lots to speculate in the Paul Pratt video, what dose was he using, mine was 18gram in 18gram VST, what roast level, darker roasts are much easier to extract than lighter roasts (I was using a light roasted Brazilian), I wonder what the shot tasted like that managed to get a 50g output in 1min 15 seconds of shot, as above look how long the preinfusion was! 16 seconds compared to 6 on the LR


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## coffeechap

Ok another little clip for those that are interested.

Light roasted Brazilian, 5 second Pre-infusion 45 second total shot time, 60g output, however desired output of 34g achieved in 30 seconds.


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http://instagr.am/p/BQLMrxJhkDb/


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## coffeechap

And finally a big dose shot (21g)


__
http://instagr.am/p/BQLVq0oBLx4/


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## Thecatlinux

Big dose with a set of spouts , now that would be handy

must resist


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> Big dose with a set of spouts , now that would be handy
> 
> must resist


Indeed small cup flat whites with 11g shots!!!


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## Thecatlinux

thebookfreak58 said:


> Lots of interesting info about grab.
> 
> In this video you see the same group (dipper config with boiler pressure PI ~1.2bar) with similar lever grab and >50g volume out. So hard to know what is true or not...


RE: video ...

easy achieved with that amount of pre infusion , not sure it would taste that great I'm guessing way over the hump and beyond over extracted .


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## Split Shot

coffeechap said:


> Indeed small cup flat whites with 11g shots!!!


Don't suppose you could tell me if a 22g VST fits the spouted PF?


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## coffeechap

Split Shot said:


> Don't suppose you could tell me if a 22g VST fits the spouted PF?


20 gram fits with enough spare that a 22 would fit


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## Split Shot

Back to the issue of PI pressure etc....

On the Londinium forum Reiss makes an interesting point that the temperature drop of the boiler water as it enters the group head is less at a P of 3 bar than it would be at 1.3 bar, meaning higher brew water temperature, consequently perhaps favouring lighter roasts....

I'm trying to get my head around that - it's not a closed system, but it's in hydraulic continuity with the boiler or HX....

I can believe there would be a bit of T difference


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## johnealey

Split Shot said:


> Don't suppose you could tell me if a 22g VST fits the spouted PF?


Just tried it for you and the 22g ridged VST fits, clicks into place in a genuine Londinium dual spouted. Appears to have a couple of mil below edge of the basket which increases towards the centre. Will try it tomorrow for you to be sure (L2 gone night nights) if you really want to be sure.

Hope of help

John


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## coffeechap

Having had the scace on the group and messing around with different PI, the temp definitely rises with a higher PI and it completely suits lighter roasts, it can be turned down for darker stuff though


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## Split Shot

We could all just get machines with PIDs tucked away in the boiler, then we would have solved the issue of temperature control.

That's how it works doesn't it?


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## mathof

Split Shot said:


> We could all just get machines with PIDs tucked away in the boiler, then we would have solved the issue of temperature control.
> 
> That's how it works doesn't it?


That would be true, I believe, for a dipper machine. The HX thermosyphon design doesn't respond directly to changes in boiler temperature: Reiss once posted a figure for the increase in brew water temperature entering the group for a marginal increase in boiler temperature. It was very small.

Matt


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## Thecatlinux

@coffeechap Big dose split shot video would be nice


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## chupulio

Would also appreciate said video.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G925F mit Tapatalk


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## Lefteye

Any further insights into the R after a few weeks use?


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## chupulio

I gotta say, uk coffee forum is sleeeepy in comparison to the german one









Gesendet von meinem SM-G925F mit Tapatalk


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## The Systemic Kid

Zzzzzzzz.


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## Cycleandespresso

Looking forward to an update also - Am very close to pushing the button on one of these.


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## coffeechap

Sorry guys will post up a more I depth observations later this week


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## Cycleandespresso

Apologies if this has been touched on already - but I can't work out if this is supplied with the button tamper as well?


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## Lefteye

No. Definitely doesn't come with a tamper.


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## Lefteye

@Snakehips you got your Londinium R yet??


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## Snakehips

Lefteye said:


> @Snakehips you got your Londinium R yet??


Yes, delivered yesterday afternoon!

Sadly, jet lag and other adverse circumstances have conspired to prevent me from getting it set up.

Hope to be up and running by the weekend.


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## Lefteye

@Snakehips what do you make of it then?


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## Snakehips

Lefteye said:


> @Snakehips what do you make of it then?


Short version : Great!

Longer version:

Visually, the L-R is almost a dead ringer for the L1(2016). Only differences being, the engraved name and the offset water tank lid. The water tank has been shifted to the right in order to accommodate the new rotary pump and revised internals. Set up was straight forward enough but you do need a couple of hours or so. The main tasks is to assemble the group as the machine ships with with the top half of the group in a separate package. I chose to remove what I considered to be an excess of original grease from the piston and seals before re-lubing and carefully assembling. (Pretty much as documented in Patrick The Systemic Kids's seal changing video but without changing the seals.) Then strip the panels of their protective coating, re-fit, fill with water and potentially, you are ready to heat up and rock and roll.

So I've had the L-R for almost a week but as I mentioned in my previous post, circumstances following my return from a 6 weeks trip to Australia have not really allowed me to have any quality time with it. Since Sunday I have actually managed to use it but that has pretty much meant making a cup of coffee to drink (any sort of coffee!) rather than have a structured play.

The L-R rotary pump is noticeably quieter than the L1 vibe pump and it shifts water far quicker so fires up for shorter periods.

On first use I was really surprised to see how 'fierce' the L-R seemed at the higher pi pressure compared to the L1 at boiler pressure.

With the machine at the factory settings, boiler pressure 1.35 and pre infusion pressure reportedly 3 bar, I started off with some unfamiliar beans that I brought back from Oz. So guessed first stab grind and brew ratio and pre infusion time. Nowhere near the best coffee I've ever made but not exactly undrinkable. I think I later made two more attempts with those beans and whilst the cup improved it was far from fantastic. During the 22 hrs flying back from oz all air had been totally sucked out of the bag effectively leaving the beans tightly vacuum packed. I'm not sure if that had a detrimental effect on the beans or not?

Next cup I decided to reduce the boiler pressure to 1.2 bar Simple enough to remove top panel*, adjust Sirai p-stat, and allow time to stabilise. Improved but still not fantastic coffee.

Yesterday, I decided to ditch the Oz beans and go for a known quantity in the shape of some Rave Signature beans that I had arranged to be delivered to a neighbour and which were now 10 days rested. I decided that with top end medium beans it might be as well to drop the pi pressure. To do so you need to remove the top panel* in order to access and adjust the Ceme pressure switch. Londinium owners site has a video showing how this is done. It's simple enough other than maybe the first time you do it as the removable dust cap on a new machine is sealed in place with what are effectively plastic welds. I have posted on the Londinium site how I had to go about removing the dust cap for the first time. Once done then adjusting the pi pressure is easy enough but unless you have the equipment and the inclination, you have no actual values to guide you. I'm keeping a note of where I am in turns relative to the original factory setting.

Having backed off a half turn I could instantly set about pulling a shot. That half turn calmed the pi down to what I imagine was pretty much boiler pressure because as I recall, the pump did not kick in at all and the whole feel was more reminiscent of the L1. Coffee wasn't at all bad. Progress!

This morning I brought it back 1/8 th of a turn....... grinder still on my first stab ball park for Signature.

5 seconds pi at whatever pressure it is (who cares?).

Coffee as good as anything I have ever had off the L1 !!!!

This afternoon, with no changes in setup, a cast iron repeat of that quality and I am a very happy bunny.

No regrets from me as regards having upgraded.

I'm never going to tinker for tinkering sake but hopefully I can make time shortly to get to know the machine a little better.

Maybe I'll even branch out and try some lighter stuff?

I look forward to hearing more from Dave @coffeechap Might help me short circuit things a bit?

*I doubt most of users will be adjusting pi pressure every five minutes but for me, the only niggle in making changes to the p-stats is refitting the top panel. There are four flanges that form the opening in the lid, which need to drop inside the water tank cradle but there is very little clearance. If the water tank is in situ then it's flexible sides can foul and exacerbate the problem. I prefer not to have to remove and then refit the water tank so I enlist the help of a couple of table knives that I effectively use like tyre levers. An extra 1mm clearance all round the top edge of that cradle would be great.


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## Split Shot

Snakehips said:


> On first use I was really surprised to see how 'fierce' the L-R seemed at the higher pi .


What type of Shower Screen has it got?

I mention this as the the 3 bar pre-infusion on my L1-P caused a fairly fierce 'needle jet' flow through the shower screen which left a distinct pattern of dimples on the puck, that I suspect left it vulnerable to channeling.

Fitting a much finer 35um IMS screen softened the flow significantly, and gives a much gentler flow during the first stages of pre-infusion.

Londinium actually recommend these screens, and sell them, but I'm not sure if they are fitted as 'stock'?

Obviously, I'm extrapolated across from an L1-P having never used an LR, but this might be worth investigating?


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## mathof

"This morning I brought it back 1/8 th of a turn....... grinder still on my first stab ball park for Signature.

5 seconds pi at whatever pressure it is (who cares?).

Coffee as good as anything I have ever had off the L1 !!!!"

One difference that I would expect to see between the LR and the L1 (pre-2017) is the angle at which the lever engages after PI. Due to the much higher PI pressure with the LR, the lever should, I believe, engage at about 90 degrees from the vertical, as opposed to 45 degrees on the old L1. Therefore, the angle of lever engagement should be a good indication of your PI pressure. Or so it seems to me.

Matt


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## Snakehips

Split Shot said:


> What type of Shower Screen has it got?


L-R ships with a typical, course mesh, oem screen. Unmarked as regards part number or spec.

I fitted a 35 um IMS from the get go. They are a treat on the Londiniums.


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## Niall

Could some lucky L-R owner do me a favour? I'm thinking of getting one but a bit concerned by the depth of the machine and whether it will fit in my kitchen. Their website says it is 540mm deep but I've seen a conflicting measurement of the L-1 and I want to make sure that the 540mm is the total depth of the whole machine.

Thanks in advance for the help.


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## Snakehips

@Niall I can confirm total depth is 540mm


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## Niall

@Snakehips thanks for that. Appreciate it.

Now to find the money!


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## The Systemic Kid

Londinium R arrived yesterday - two days early than scheduled so a nice surprise. After cleaning the plastic coating off the panels and assembling the group, had a few hiccups getting the beast to fire up - beep warning indicating water wasn't being drawn from the reservoir. Sorted that and eventually coaxed the beast into life. Once operating pressure achieved, vipped the steam arm - nothing - pressure dropped back to zero but at least the heating element kicked in immediately bringing pressure back up and generating steam through the wand. Did I say steam? Plenty of it and no water droplets - similar to the peerless steam ability of L1P.

Didn't get round to pulling any shots until this morning until JollyBean came to collect his MkII Londinium (really nice meeting you again, Jed). Pulled a few shots using same grind setting for L1. What was immediately noticeable was the pre-infusion time was exactly half that I was using on L1. So the higher pre-infusion pressure is really soaking the puck prior to the lever being released. Put some Foundry Duromina and LSOL Drop beans to see how LR behaves. What was immediately apparent with espressos from both beans was an extra noticeable dimension in taste profile. Both beans are floral and acidic - lime/grapefruit/white grape. There was a real heady Bergamot aroma from the Duromina - much more evident than shots produced on L1. Same with the Drop LSOL - strong floral notes (Hibiscus apparently but I'm no expert) with balanced acidity - fruit without sourness. Am putting these changes down to the slightly higher brewing temp and the higher pressure pre-infusion. Early days but reports that LR does make a useful difference in the cup for lighter roasts seems justified. Not sure you'd seem much if any difference in the cup if your preference is for medium plus to darker roasts.


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## Thecatlinux

Nice to see you up and running Patrick , it will be interesting to read your thoughts regarding the change , shame i didnt spend more time comparing the two when I had the chance . ( it was a busy old weekend )

I was surprised at how much quieter the machine was , and the pump kicking in each time was not really that noticeable ,

PS I even nearly bought your older L1 at that price it was a give away LOL


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## onluxtex

I am thinking to buy the Londinium R or second hand the Londinium L1 without pump.

1. Is it possible to disconnect the pump and plumb the LR direct to the main water supply?

2. Is it possible to remove the pump from the case of the LR and install it next to the room of my kitchen, the distance is about 2 meters. So I don't hear the noise of the pump?

Thanks for held and greetings from

Ronald


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## Planter

onluxtex said:


> I am thinking to buy the Londinium R or second hand the Londinium L1 without pump.
> 1. Is it possible to disconnect the pump and plumb the LR direct to the main water supply?
> 2. Is it possible to remove the pump from the case of the LR and install it next to the room of my kitchen, the distance is about 2 meters. So I don't hear the noise of the pump?
> Thanks for held and greetings from
> Ronald


How quiet do you need it to be? The pump is very quiet on the LR.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Slowpress

This is a londinium question but a side one?

Can you successfully steam small amounts of milk on the londinium, without overheating the milk? 90 to 120 ml, for example?


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## Fez

Slowpress said:


> This is a londinium question but a side one?
> 
> Can you successfully steam small amounts of milk on the londinium, without overheating the milk? 90 to 120 ml, for example?


 I generally steam 120-130ml without any issues. It does take a bit of practice to get enough air in before the milk starts getting warm


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## Planter

That's all I make and have no issues at all

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## onluxtex

Planter said:


> How quiet do you need it to be? The pump is very quiet on the LR.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 For a lever a prefer no noise at all....


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## Planter

onluxtex said:


> For a lever a prefer no noise at all....


Fair enough. I wasn't questioning. Was just curious.

But in all fairness the LR is very quiet and is silent/near silent, when the shot is actually being drawn.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## onluxtex

Planter said:


> Fair enough. I wasn't questioning. Was just curious.
> 
> But in all fairness the LR is very quiet and is silent/near silent, when the shot is actually being drawn.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 I was asking if I can remove the pump and install it next to the kitchen, because I have done it with my GS3 in the same way. It is really nice to pull a shot and hear nothing.... and I like to play...


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## Planter

onluxtex said:


> I was asking if I can remove the pump and install it next to the kitchen, because I have done it with my GS3 in the same way. It is really nice to pull a shot and hear nothing.... and I like to play...


Haha. Fair enough. I think I'd be too scared.

If I get chance tomorrow I'll film the noise from the LR.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## MildredM

Pump sound for anyone interested. It varies from bean to bean/prep (as to how many extra 'grunts' it does)


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## Planter

MildredM said:


> Pump sound for anyone interested. It varies from bean to bean/prep (as to how many extra 'grunts' it does)


Saved me a job. And your machine looks better 

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## onluxtex

> 39 minutes ago, MildredM said:
> 
> Pump sound for anyone interested. It varies from bean to bean/prep (as to how many extra 'grunts' it does)


 Hi Mildred, are you the one who sold the old L1 and using now the R?

If its correct what was the reason to change? Is it true that the R needs about 1h to be ready?

Thanks,

Ronald


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## MildredM

No, always been L-R here. This is my second one.


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## MildredM

I think you have your answer re moving the pump from Reiss now.


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## Planter

onluxtex said:


> Hi Mildred, are you the one who sold the old L1 and using now the R?
> If its correct what was the reason to change? Is it true that the R needs about 1h to be ready?
> Thanks,
> Ronald


Typically about an hour. However a few tactical lever pulls will help get the group up to temp quicker.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## onluxtex

ok, thanks a lot for helping me.

I will continue in finding a second hand one L1 (2012-16)

If I don´t get, than I will order by end of the year the LR and modify it.


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## Planter

Not a problem. Good luck with the hunt.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## DrH

For the LR owners here, what has your experience been with darker roasts? I want to experiment with all roast types by my usuals are dark and I'm worried that the LR will overextract them? Any thoughts?


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## MildredM

DrH said:


> For the LR owners here, what has your experience been with darker roasts? I want to experiment with all roast types by my usuals are dark and I'm worried that the LR will overextract them? Any thoughts?


 Hello DrH and welcome to the forum! I'm sorry, I can't really comment on dark roasts as I tend to use predominantly medium to light roasts here. Hopefully someone will comment with more experience though. Thinking about it, when my first L-R shipped I think Reiss included a bag of beans with it, they were pretty dark and not to my liking but I remember thinking Reiss must like his dark roasts because he often mentioned, and displayed photos, of such beans over on the Londo forum


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## Marocchino

Having never had a machine with wooden components before, I thought I'd better get some wood oil and wax to ensure the integrity and appearance.of the wood is maintained.

I settled on a natural product made by Uulki that was a combination of both wax and oil and set about applying it to the toggles and handles etc; when all of a sudden more wooden items magically appeared......

Even though I'm used to the utilitarian nature of black plastic handles, I've found the wooden ones have an inherent beauty probably because they're a natural product I can now understand why some machine owners upgrade their machines with wooden accents.


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## MildredM

Looking good there @Marocchino and really loving those wood bits and bobs 😁


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## Marocchino

MildredM said:


> Looking good there @Marocchino and really loving those wood bits and bobs 😁


 Wood has always been a great favourite of mine - didn't realise how many pieces we had that could benefit from some treatment until we started the process this morning.
I find It's so easy to accumulate stuff and in reality we're actually trying very hard not to 😀


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