# Bit of a strange one...



## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

Soooo, bit of a strange one that Im hoping someone has the knowledge to help me with.

I've just pulled a couple of shots with the Horsham Pioneer beans with a Gaggia classic, 14g basket. Mc2 grinder.

*First shot: 14.1g in, 30 out, 19 seconds!*

Obviously fast with a lot of fines in the cup, bitter-ish taste. Not a great deal of pressure on the tamper.

*I adjust for a finer grind (which was annoying knowing there were fines already)*

*Second shot: 13.9g in, 31g out, 24 seconds.*

Which still seems fast right? Well, now for the confusing bit... it took 10 seconds after the switch was flicked before coffee started flowing from the spouts which seems very slow. There was slightly more pressure on the tamp fewer fines and a less bitter taste.

Needless to say Im confused as to whether the grind is too fine or too course. Or even if it needs to be courser but tamped harder.

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks

Dom


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

A video of your prep would help, but based on your times I would say you are not grinding fine enough. It is not unusual for gaggia to start the pour at 10 seconds however the volume of the rest of the shit in such a short time could be indicative of channelling


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

@coffeechap Thanks! Ill upload a video tomorrow. I never thought of channelling as a cause but after reading a few symptoms of it it appears it could be that. Thin body, crema not lasting long, lacking in any major bitter or sour tones.

Could of nailed it there. Thanks again.


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## RDC8 (Dec 6, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> A video of your prep would help, but based on your times I would say you are not grinding fine enough. It is not unusual for gaggia to start the pour at 10 seconds however the volume of the rest of the shit in such a short time could be indicative of channelling


A classic example (pun intended) of the difference a miss-typed letter can make


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

Well as promised here is this mornings extraction.... with pictures of the puck... which is pretty damning.

*After yesterday I made the grind finer*

*This morning I still got 30.8g in 24 seconds.*

Still had a lot of fines, and pretty clear evidence of channelling. I thought I did a pretty good job of distribution but clearly Im missing something!

Dont go easy on me....


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

@luke any thoughts??


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## luke (Dec 7, 2016)

I don't think fines are the best measure of a good/bad extraction, especially with our MC2s (someone correct me if this isn't true).

I'm having to grind a lot finer for Pioneer compared to Mocca Java, it's just a lighter roast.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I see no mention of taste ?


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

@Mrboots2u The taste was a lot better for this morning. No bitterness to it or acidity but definitely lacked body. Tasted like a very light roast rather than a medium light. I think its the channeling thats causing this. Ive no idea how I could improve my distribution at the moment.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What are the notes on the coffee ? What are you looking for ? Sweetness ? Strength ( which is a function of brewing not the coffee itself ) . Describing something as tasting light roast instead of medium to light doesn't tell us a lot , as the bean/ origin itself will dictate the base flavour. Having acidity in balance can be a good thing in coffee for instance ( bean dependent ) .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

barnfather said:


> @Mrboots2u The taste was a lot better for this morning. No bitterness to it or acidity but definitely lacked body. Tasted like a very light roast rather than a medium light. I think its the channeling thats causing this. Ive no idea how I could improve my distribution at the moment.


Don't fiddle so much with the PF/basket. If a collar/funnel helps you get the weighed grounds in the PF more cleanly try that. You seemed to tamp, then tap the PF & tamp again? Just level the bed with a couple of downward, then a couple of sideways taps, tamp once.

What happens if you go a little coarser?

There's a funny trough around the edge of the puck, maybe water is finding an easier path here because the puck is too dense, or too much tapping is causing a void around the puck?


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Please don't take this as being rude, is a suggestion.









Once ground into the paper cup, if this is how you intend to grind before into portafilter, stir the ground with a cocktail stick / straightened out paperclip / mini whisk then into portafilter, 1 gentle tap downwards (or brush grinds gently to create flat bed) then tamp once (with a no weight polishing spin if you like) and once only no further banging. Gently put portafilter into group head, flushing first and pour. Taste and report back.

Whilst above is not ideal way is just my thought based on your prep video and your equipment so may offer an improvement / save time / be more repeatable / rule out prep and cause you to look at shower screen / water flow etc

Hope of help and happy to be shot down

John


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

The coffee is described as "Sweet, juicy fruits and soft caramel sweetness." More info here- https://www.horshamcoffeeroaster.co.uk/products/pioneer

It does say that its best in small milky drinks so maybe Im on track.

I would love to be able to stop the channeling though.


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

@MWJB Too much tamping is probable. Ill try only leveling then tamping once. Could be that the grind is far too fine once the water is flowing through the coffee evenly!

@johnealey That wasnt rude at all! Thanks for the suggestions! I did wonder whether grinding into a container before had was over complicating things. I had noticed that after tamping and a quick polish, there were loose grinds on top of the polished coffee i tend to gently blow these away though.

Again, thanks for all the advice!


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## barnfather (Dec 22, 2016)

Thought Id give an update.

I started grinding straight into the PF, levelling with a finger, small tap, tamp once, no polish spin and....no channeling in sight. Thanks all!


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