# Filter my plumbed in machine



## Jakester (Aug 24, 2012)

Ok so I have got my New to me VFA Expres machine plumbed in. Question is do I get a filter for it. It has a 2ltr boiler I think it is. I had to fit a new element in it when I got it. It was very clean inside had only made hot water. Which very quickly knacked the element I reckon. It is a HX machine so descaling that will be a pain main boiler is easy. So any suggestions. I don't want to spend a great deal. It will be on for around 3/4 hours a day. Will probably make max 10 coffees a day, mostly 4 a day.

Cheers Vince


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Depends on how hard your water supply is. Where do you live ?


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## Jakester (Aug 24, 2012)

Kettering Northamptonshire. The water is not to bad. I did pick up a machine from manchester once. It took a week of soaking to get most of the scale out. Even then it was not perfect.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Personally, yes. Because I would never want to make coffee with straight tap water. And that's before were even mentioning the issue of potential scale.

The cheaper solution would be to 'pumb' it to a bottle of water. Max expense the cost of a flojet pump.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Kettles are a good guide to whether or not you need to filter to prevent scale build up. Even in soft water areas you might choose to filter due the the chemicals added by the water company


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Just been through exactly the same thing filtering my L1-P as I live in a very hard water area.

I settled with the 3M Scaleguard Pro as its specifically designed for coffee applications and tested my water before and after with the Londinium hard water test kit my total hardness went from over 160ppm to 75ppm









http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/766686O/3m-scalegard-r-pro-range.pdf

The head is this one - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321165631247?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The filter is this one - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-ScaleGard-Pro-P195BNE-P195BN-E-Coffee-Vending-machine-filter-/360765841313?hash=item53ff51dfa1:m:m0DfNRqvJ1TWgH1DxKlKpxQ

I put a PRV in also to reduce line pressure to the machine - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honeywell-Pressure-Reducing-Valve-with-Gauge-15mm-DO4FM-1-2ZGC-/291547515667?

All worked out perfectly and a lot cheaper than I had thought when I was looking around!


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

Questions mrsimba,

I see you have a "to be changed by" date on the filter, is that following recommended good practice (change every 12 months) or is that your expectation of when the filter will be shot ?

Also was the rest of the install straightforward 15mm pipe with a T piece off the mains ?

Cheers


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## mazi (Jan 21, 2015)

Do you know the difference between this 3M Scaleguard Pro and BWT bestmax?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Olliehulla said:


> Questions mrsimba,
> 
> I see you have a "to be changed by" date on the filter, is that following recommended good practice (change every 12 months) or is that your expectation of when the filter will be shot ?
> 
> ...


At an incoming hardness of 180 the 195e will take 3800 litres before needing a change!

But for the price of a filter I'll check the hardness after a year and see how its holding up, not too expensive to change once a year if need be.

All very straightforward to instal, I ran it off the supply to my combi boiler & just T pieced in with a shut off valve after the T and after the PRV.

The only part that required a little 'out of the box' thinking was the filter head is fitted to the bracket to run right - left, water in - water out, which with me needing it to run left - right would have been a plumbing spaghetti junction!

The securing tabs on the head if you take the edge off one with a sharp knife and with a very hard anti clockwise twist will turn the head 180' and still lock back in place









Made life a LOT simpler!!!


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## Jakester (Aug 24, 2012)

Ok the head price seems fine. Filter bit spendy for my pocket. As descaler comes in at around £5 a KG. Someone mentioned running it from bottled water. But not an option as its all plumbed in now. I did speak to someone in Lincolnshire a long time ago may have to look them up.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Filter if changed yearly would be £7.50 per month probably what you'd spend on bottled water!

Also the 3M is designed for coffee applications so whilst protecting the machine also retains correct ph values ect it's a good system


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

mrsimba said:


> Filter if changed yearly would be £7.50 per month probably what you'd spend on bottled water!
> 
> Also the 3M is designed for coffee applications so whilst protecting the machine also retains correct ph values ect it's a good system


added to which, smaller capacity filter bodies can be had for less if your usage is lower and still intend to swap out yearly


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Is there an advantage to this approach as an RO system gives significantly lower TDS e.g. under 10ppm?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

This is just about scale control & filtering the chlorine ect from the water RO is a completely different ball game!

Also space for the instillation is an issue & RO takes up a lot of space!!!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

RO also filters too much out for it to be the ideal coffee solution. Davecuk uses ro and puts a little something in, forget what, but that's probably covered somewhere in the water for coffee thread.


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

Indeed, you don't want a TDS too low, from what I have read does not make good coffee. The 3M system mrsimba has looks about right for me personally, of course, others needs / situations and set up, incoming water etc will be different so people will need to research and make their own minds up.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jlarkin said:


> RO also filters too much out for it to be the ideal coffee solution. Davecuk uses ro and puts a little something in, forget what, but that's probably covered somewhere in the water for coffee thread.


I do put a little something in with ensures I don't suffer any taste/acidfity issues....but remember RO gives many other benefits. e.g. I have not had a fault on an espresso machine ever, since installing it -9 years ago. Water doesn't just contain limescale and by filtering and retreating you get an optimal solution. Of course as someone mentioned, it does require some space, you effectively loose 2/3 of an undersink cupboard.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I have just recently installed the ezfitpro 100 from here http://www.osmiowater.co.uk/water-filters/keep-your-existing-tap-water-filter-systems.html

I have very soft Manchester water, so was only aiming to reduce chemical content but there are other systems there that reduce harrdness, they only work at 4l per min, which is a lot slower than your average kitchen tap, so I run it at a (roughly calculated) slow stream when using the tap for drinking/coffee water. Not sure what affect the regular use of the tap will have on the life of the filter however.

For a plumbed in machine 4l per min might be adequate, it can be too much above that if at all.

I think when I move in with my GF in a few months I may try and convince her to let me install one of the systems with a separate tap, the filters are cheaper in the long run as you aren't filtering your washing up water









Edit- just edited as I wrote 2l and not 4l per min, not sure why I had 2l per min in my head, and it's actually a good flow at 4l, easily enough for an espresso machine.


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## Jakester (Aug 24, 2012)

I am tempted by the ezfitpro 200 looks like that will do what I need and can filter my kitchen tap as well. Plus filters are £20 every 6 months which seem more sensible.

Although space under sink will be interesting. Will have to move some stuff around.

Easy enough with push fit.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

All these questions about water quality prompted me to take a long overdue visit to my garage, which is where my drinking water system is located...

(In other words, I am almost guilty of a "fit it, and forget it" attitude.)

Here is a picture of it and the simultaneous TDS readings from the meters. (I had to use the "Aperture loupe" to adequately display the current post remineralise reading).









I changed all of the cartridges (including the RO membrane) in March this year, and it brings my water down to 00ppm....

The water is then fed into a remineralisation cartridge consisting of a mix of 50/50 calcium/magnesium carbonates...

As can be seen, this is a pretty volatile number, but this morning, it was reading between 70 and 97ppm, all of which consists of known additives (namely, either calcium or magnesium).

Over the past three years, I have found a system such as this to be by far the most useful for the coffee machine, but note that the same water is used in the kettle, I also develop my own olde-worlde negative film and it is perfect for washing.... (it would be even better, if I fitted an outlet before the remineralising cartridge)...

I think I need to change the battery on the second RO meter, the LCD display is a bit dim. Anyway, in the picture, you can just discern that at this point in time, it was 80ppm. The first TDS meter is mains powered and was sitting at 1ppm when I entered the garage, and went down to 0ppm once some water was drawn off.

I would recommend such a system to anyone that chooses to spend the extra effort to plumb in.

I live in south-east London, where Thames Water's effort to provide drinking water, results in nearly 400ppm of temporary dissolved solids, most of which will be rapidly breaking one's precious coffee machine.

NB: the batteries are those stoopid little round silver things, so I will go and get a couple and re-do the picture.

EDIT: Battery changed, display not much better, but now reading 74ppm.


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

Christ, that looks looks like something out of a hospital !


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Olliehulla said:


> Christ, that looks looks like something out of a hospital !


Nah... Republic of China.


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