# Marginal gains - the espresso edition



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

Unlike other hobbies I've stuck with coffee for quite a while and I'm well and truly hooked.

I find myself constantly trying to push for the god shot, yes I'm still enjoying the coffee along the way, however I also enjoy trying to reach perfection - it's FUN!

I'm kind of a bit unsure what to focus on next, or what to do differently to try to improve.

here's where I am

1. Gear - QM Verona @ 6 bar + well aligned EK + VST refractometer

2. Technique - Sieve, swirl, tap 'n' tamp

3. Beans - bought with care, currently mixing between frozen and fresh

4. Water - Waitrose + Volvic

I'm very happy with my technique but willing try different things, more than happy with the bean and roasters I pick, this is about getting the most out of what I buy.

The coffee is great don't get me wrong, this weekend I made the best espresso of my life, however I want to keep pushing.I'm going to give the Kruve another go for spro however in the past I found it too much of a ball ache in my workflow. I'll also keep trying to improve on my general technique.

I'm contemplating trying a few different water blends as 1 thing.

Other than that all I can think of is Upgradicus, Verona > Vesuvius > Slayer? (maybe the decent machine if it ever ships....). EK coffee Burrs > Gorilla/South Korea (not sure about this yet).

Any other techniques I could try? Suggestions on what to think about next?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dump the pump and buy a lever......


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I don't physically have enough headroom to be able to do that, I've considered removing a cupboard but it would look very odd in the kitchen!


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Saturated group head?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

other than La Marzocco what other options are there for saturated? is the slayer coil system better/worse/different?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

been doing a bit more research and looks like the slayer is out of the question as can't go down the plumbed route.

realistically La Marzocco GS3 is an option, other manufacturers are more money, not sure yet. dunno if I like some of the hydra feature implementations.

any thoughts on the GS3 or any better options? technique maybe?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Enjoy what you make , relax and save some money .

You'll get all kinds of suggestions to spend money on gear that hardly anyone owns or has owned but people dream will make Em the ultimate espresso .

Unless you just wanna own a LM or slayer for the pride and joy of owning one , that's fine , but but it's not a guarantee of better Espresso.

Ps - there is no perfection to chase just an enjoyable drink .


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Indeed. You have a very high end home setup. I have a similar setup and am resolved to concentrating more on the raw materials: i.e. quality coffee and I suppose water

If you want more, maybe consider either technical training (if you think it would benefit, perhaps not), or taste training e.g. go to cuppings, tasting with others, etc


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Why would you want an LM, Synesso or Slayer etc at home? Get an R58 and a Mythos1 for the same price as the absolute BASE model of any of those.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm enjoying my coffee, don't necessarily want any new gear, just would like to feel that I'm making progress. (maybe just for the sake of making progress?)

as the thread title says, what's the next marginal gain? I dunno.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Phobic said:


> I'm enjoying my coffee, don't necessarily want any new gear, just would like to feel that I'm making progress. (maybe just for the sake of making progress?)
> 
> as the thread title says, what's the next marginal gain? I dunno.


In a marginal gain? Look at your water, bring up the quality of the beans, record more data and learn from that.

Utilise your current equipment fully.

New machines better coffee does not make.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

maybe pressure profiling, something like the Decent Espresso?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

water plan already contains.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

Stanic said:


> maybe pressure profiling, something like the Decent Espresso?


meh, I'm not really that incentivised by pressure profiling (yet) for it to be a reason to buy a new machine on it's own.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Here's a random thought that just occurred to me - what about training your sensory perception with the Nez du Café (not to be confused with Nescafe LOL!) That way you might be able to 'get more' from the coffee you're already making, which may then possibly guide you to making better espresso, or focusing more closely on the particular tastes you favour and how to get them? I reckon kit wise you've got what you need.


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

I think it's so personal at the level you are at that there's no clear way to steer you that would be obvious, it's that great old law the law I think should be called the coffee law you guessed it.... diminishing returns.

If you have the best of gear the only thing left to improve or can be improved on is you.

Knowledge in coffee as in everything worthwhile is worth having maybe try and attain a new piece for yourself, Roasting has mountain of information and skills to aquire its definitely worth your time trying to be the best maybe even beat the best try your hand in a competition or 2 you will definitely learn alot from that kind of experience.

I hope you find what ever it is your looking for nothing worse than an itch you just can't scratch.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I am with the others here, gear will not make a lot of difference, you are already pulling the flat six bar long shots that the ek allows you to do. Water is a huge aspect that @Xpenno will probably attest to, quality in the bean market is also another variant that would be worth consideration.

With regard to a machine, you have a good machine, I have both the gs3 and the LR, the gs3s saturated group is rock solid and I get excellent results, the LR is awesome with progressive roasts, however a lever is not on your radar.

Get into the wet stuff!


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## Tewdric (Apr 20, 2014)

Phobic said:


> I don't physically have enough headroom to be able to do that, I've considered removing a cupboard but it would look very odd in the kitchen!


Plots of us have Londiniums living under cupboards. You just have to position them so you can still open the doors. Look back through the my setup photo thread to see mine.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think it's a really good set up. In fairness to the op the Waitrose/ Volvic mix is pretty good for espresso IMO (not a million miles from "Special Water" but that source has dried up for me







)

Does anyone else have alternatives to try for spro?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I like levers but could this just be another variable and rabbit hole to vanish down


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

hotmetal said:


> Here's a random thought that just occurred to me - what about training your sensory perception with the Nez du Café (not to be confused with Nescafe LOL!) That way you might be able to 'get more' from the coffee you're already making, which may then possibly guide you to making better espresso, or focusing more closely on the particular tastes you favour and how to get them? I reckon kit wise you've got what you need.


this is an amazing idea! I didn't even know such a thing existed.

exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for, thank you thank you!


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

some good advice here as well, must confess I wasn't angling for a new machine but would have considered 1.

I spent a lot of time looking at the londinium when I bought the verona and just can't live with it in my kitchen unfortunately or I would have bought 1 in the 1st place.

I guess I'm looking for a bit of a project, maybe looking at water blends that best match my own personal palate is part of the answer as per my opening post, linking that with the nez du cafe could be fun (oh my god I've turned into a geek).

Roasting is something I might do in the future however I'm not ready for it yet, there's far too much good coffee out there roasted very well for me to try.

like the idea of competitions, 1 to look into maybe.

I guess ultimately I keep coming back to the thought that I can only drink 60-80g a day, I want to get the most I possibility can out of that!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

How is your consistency?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Competitions is an interesting one, but I think a brewers comp or Aeropress might easier and more fun to do than A fun blown Barista one ....

As Mwjb says how consistent are your shots , that would be an area to work on . Also , this drive to a ' god shot " does that denote that you are not always as consistent as you would like to be , or that you have tasted greatness that you feel you can't replicate or that you just feel there is more and better to be had from coffee . If the latter then again my advice would be enjoy the brews you make for what they are, sometimes when you stop minutely analysing the imperfections in coffee it can be alot more enjoyable.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

MWJB said:


> How is your consistency?


I would like to think pretty good, I'm very methodical with my workflow, getting repeatable results.

Freezing the beans has helped practically remove any variance caused by aging and the need to tweak the dial that goes with it.

I don't get any visible channeling or squirters (is that the right term?!), I'm not VSTing every shot but would like to think that I'd taste any difference, ultimately I'm getting repeatable tastes cup to cup within my palate's ability to differentiate


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I like levers but could this just be another variable and rabbit hole to vanish down


A Londinium paired with his EK would be a step backwards IMO


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Competitions is an interesting one, but I think a brewers comp or Aeropress might easier and more fun to do than A fun blown Barista one ....
> 
> As Mwjb says how consistent are your shots , that would be an area to work on . Also , this drive to a ' god shot " does that denote that you are not always as consistent as you would like to be , or that you have tasted greatness that you feel you can't replicate or that you just feel there is more and better to be had from coffee . If the latter then again my advice would be enjoy the brews you make for what they are, sometimes when you stop minutely analysing the imperfections in coffee it can be alot more enjoyable.


comps certainly something to take a look at I think.

'god shot' is more about me trying to improve as much as I can and to squeeze as much as possible out of the cup, rather than I think there's something missing or there are little imperfections.

don't get me wrong I'm really enjoying what I make, in fact I'm loving it, I'm not trying to over analyse things, I guess I'm wondering if I'm sort of at the "end game" or if there are more things I could do to improve further even if they are very marginal - maybe there's not.

maybe I need to compare my technique and results against others to see if I can learn anything.

I've started to get into filter which is a good outlet to scratch my self development itch, however that's for another thread maybe.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Phobic said:


> I would like to think pretty good, I'm very methodical with my workflow, getting repeatable results.
> 
> Freezing the beans has helped practically remove any variance caused by aging and the need to tweak the dial that goes with it.
> 
> I don't get any visible channeling or squirters (is that the right term?!), I'm not VSTing every shot but would like to think that I'd taste any difference, ultimately I'm getting repeatable tastes cup to cup within my palate's ability to differentiate


OK, so you're not VST-ing every shot, but you're scoring them?

Preference is tricky to score, but if you're making coffee for you & enjoying it, rather than convincing the world you are right, it is obviously a lot more relevant. Consistency, as in a standard deviation, is very easy to determine, whether it be EY or your preference score. I score all my coffees using the quartermasters 9 point scale (you can use whatever scale you feel appropriate).

You say you aren't VST-ing the shots, but freezing beans has removed variance? What was the variance, what is it now?

I'm not saying every shot breaks down to a number, but aspects of it can & those aspects can be tracked.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

that's a fair point, no I'm not scoring them, maybe if I focus more in on that it will allow me to spot more nuanced changes that might improve consistency further - good shout.

Before I started freezing I would tweak the grind as the beans aged over time, that's what I'm refering to, not noticing a need to do this anymore with frozen beans.

Maybe I should VST more often along with scoring.


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