# Home roasting vs same day roasted commercial



## jimrobo

Just wondered what people's thoughts are against home roasted beans versus same day roasted beans from a commercial roaster.

Do you guys think it's worth roasting yourself and you get a better quality product or do you think you just can't beat buying from a commercial roaster who roasts the same day?


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## MikeHag

Good question. Disclaimer: I'm not (yet) a roaster so this is pure conjecture...

I'd imagine you'll get better coffee from a professional roaster rather than roasting at home. Their superior equipment, their ability to buy higher quality green beans, their experience with roasting etc etc all point to a better quality product. Home roasted beans are no fresher, due to the requisite degassing days before you use them, so that again points to commercial beans being a better option.

*However*, home-made is home-made... whether it is bread kneeded with your own hands, apples from your own orchard, or coffee beans roasted in a popcorn maker. There's something intangible in home-made products that is simply missing from purchased products, and given the option I'd rather spend my time trying to perfect a home-roasted coffee than buying the finest beans from the finest roaster.


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## CoffeeMagic

If I can just take that a little further in considering that a home roaster can tailor a blend to suit his tastes, since they are the only customer. On the other hand a commercial roaster has to consider a multitude of likes and dislikes as well as balancing the cost of production.

I'm interested in the idea of a commercial roaster's access to high quality green beans, but perhaps the subject of another thread, eh!


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## Fran

Mike, doesn't the de-gassing argument only hold for espresso blends? For brewed coffee, the fresher the better??

However, the expertise of the roaster is obviously vital - however, something which we don't hear discuss much is what the process of roasting beans actually entails. Maybe I just need to look harder on the net! But it would be cool to hear about the process from green beans in your garage to delicious brew. What are the steps? How much trial and error is involved? What are the parameters to adjust? Is it temperature profile through the brew time? Is it just length? Rotation speed of the drum? How much trial and error is needed? Does intuition give you a good first guess, or are you very much in the dark at the beginning?!

Yikes, when I write it all down, I really know very little!


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## vintagecigarman

Whilst I wouldn't presume to roast as well as a good professional roaster, I've literally hundreds of home roasts under my belt, and would like to think that I've at least learned something about the art, and produce some pretty good results. I'm not sure that the suggestion that professional roasters have access to better greens holds water - for example all HasBean beans are available as greens. And some pro roasters are using equipment that is no more technologically advanced than what is available to the home roaster.

I do try to maintain some quality control by occasionally buying a batch of commercially roasted versions of the greens I am using and doing a blind taste test - and although I say so myself, my home roasts hold up pretty well.

But Mike has encapsulated what home roasting is all about - and it's largely a question of both fun and pride. It doesn't save any money, and it's time-intensive, but it's not a chore, and it brings you so much closer to the ultimate product.I'm a big believer that the best coffee is what tastes best to you - but I wouldn't want to stray too far away from the best of mainstream, hence the occasional reality check.

Fran, I think that successful roasting does take a bit of experience - but with something like a Behmor or a Gene you'll have drinkable results from day one. Developing more subtle nuances takes a lot longer - but that's what the fun is all about! Other than through sheer operator error (setting the timer incorrectly, for example, my results have never been truly undrinkable. The less successful experiments can be given away to less coffee-orientated friends, and they'll rave about them! (Well, they are comparing them to stale store-bought pre-grounds!). SweetMaria's website gives much more info about the actual process than I can, and is well worth a look.


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## CoffeeMagic

I would tend to disagree with 2 points raised here. Firstly, some roasters do have Direct Trade agreements with the growers and perhaps could be seen as having access to quality green beans that they do not sell as a green product. Secondly, home roasting your own green beans does save you money. Using a roaster such as a Gene Cafe you would probably see it pay for itself in 9 - 12 months, depending obviously on how much you consume and where you buy your green beans. Since you do it for pleasure your time would not be a significant factor or cost.

While commercial roasting equipment isn't sophisticated, I would suggest that it requires a significantly greater level of skill than that used in small-quantity home roasting. That is not to say that the home roaster doesn't have that skill, more from the fact that home roasters (by their nature) are simpler to use. Generally you don't have to worry about temperature gradients (with gas burners), airflow through the drum, ducting backpressure, etc.

Fran, to answer some of your questions:

What are the steps?

As an overview: Pre-heat the drum, insert the beans, roast to 1st crack (sometimes just before), continue to develop beans towards 2nd crack, dump and cool - then rest (the beans) and enjoy









How much trial and error is involved?

Lots. There is skill in knowing when to cut the heat input and how to develop the bean for flavour etc. As Steve Leighton mentions in one of his AudioBoos, "...some roasters just dark roast an espresso blend and never taste the result. Some don't even drink coffee!..." Steve generally provides a lighter roast, the profile of which will be developed through trial and error and cupping each attempt.

What are the parameters to adjust?

Well, heat and airflow are generally the big factors as is when to apply and how much. Bean type and varietal have a big influence - is it high-grown or low-grown, is it geisha or typica, washed/natural/dry processed. It can be summarized by a profile of temperature vs time.

Is it temperature profile through the brew time? Is it just length? Rotation speed of the drum? How much trial and error is needed?

See above

Does intuition give you a good first guess, or are you very much in the dark at the beginning?

I suppose this is where some of that skill and knowledge comes in useful. Beans have characteristics that the roaster can exploit, for instance, balancing a coffee that has light body and high acidity with one that provides more body but with a light acidity - using quirky coffees to add complexity to a blend. Knowing the characteristics of each roasted bean and a first guess at the proportions of each makes blending a bit less "hit & miss".

There is a lot of information available on the net, of various depths, and it is a fascinating subject (in my view). I haven't scratched the surface here, but hopefully answered some of your questions and perhaps lined up more







. A good explanation of the roasting process with pics is described here.


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## MikeHag

Loving all the recent roasting discussions! Hope it continues and grows.


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## CoffeeMagic

Don't want to hijack jimrobo's thread.

There are a whole shed-load of questions (some I may not be able to answer) that probably deserve a thread on its own, or wiki. More than happy to contribute my views, where I can, to de-mystify the process or answer direct questions (easier)


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## vintagecigarman

I think that CoffeeMagic and I may have been splitting hairs a little in our earlier posts.

Whilst some esoteric roasters have access to different (not necessarily better) greens that they choose not to make available to home roasters, what I was implying is that anyone considering home roasting needn't be concerned that they will not be able to obtain high quality greens. There is an amazing variety of high quality stuff out there just waiting to be tried, and quality of the raw ingredient is not a limiting factor in home roasting.

As for saving money? Well, I'd still consider that it's unlikely that any average home roaster is going to save himself a shed-load of money. I buy most of my greens 2kg at a time, and whilst I know that there are economies to be made by buying larger quantities, I think that's a pretty fair quantity of a single variety to buy at a time. I reckon, on that basis that each 250g roasted works out at around £1.50 to £2.00 cheaper than buying the roasted bean in that (250g) quantity. I'm generally roasting every day, or every other day, so I suppose in realistic terms could recover the £300+ cost of a Gene in under a year. But that doesn't take into consideration the cost of electricity, the fact that any home roasting machine has a finite life before requiring repair/replacement (I'm on my second Behmor) and the amount that gets given away! So I'm not booking a holiday to pick Blue Mountain on the savings I'm making. But hey, home roasting isn't about saving money, it's about the sheer joy of learning a new skill and getting closer to the coffee. It also has the great advantage of enabling me to keep a wider variety of beans on hand than I would do if I had to rely on purchasing ready-roasted, as I'm content to store a selection of greens much longer than I would ever dream of storing a variety of roasted beans.

The info that CoffeeMagic has provided in his post gives the most succinct and valuable intro to roasting that I've ever seen - well done!

Let's just hope it encourages more forum members to give it a try.


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## CoffeeMagic

jimrobo, just to answer your question (got sidetracked), if you know what you want to serve to your customers and a commercial roaster already supplies it then it makes sense to use ready-made. But if you are interested in roasting and just enjoy the alchemy and, as Vintage points out, being charitable with the results then why not join us on the '(medium) dark side'


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## webbber

I'm just starting out home roasting (with an old popcorn machine) and I must humbly admit that the coffee tastes horrible. It's a green Sumatra that I bought a kilo of, and I've experimented with varying levels of roast. It's always a little acidic. This may be inherent in the beans...but I have a long way to go, and have not had instant results!


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## CoffeeMagic

Best to start another thread with this, webber, as it may also attract other popper roasters


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## Fran

Thanks a million, CoffeeMagic and vintagecigarman, great posts!


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## jimrobo

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the posts! Some great info there!

I guess as a realistic example if I was to order 250g of green beans and 250g of roasted beans from has bean. If I home roasted the green beans and then pulled consecutive shots with the has bean roasted the day before and the home roasted beans I had roasted within that hour do you think there is likely to be a noticeable difference? Do you think the home roasting can be as good as the has bean roast?


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## vintagecigarman

Yes, there'll be a difference - beans give of their best when they've been left to de-gas after roasting - so you've got to be thinking ahead with your roasting, as you don't want to be going roast-to-brew as soon as they come out of the roaster!

Can your own be as good as the Hasbean roast? Not immediately. You'll be able to get acceptable roasts from day one with a Behmor or a Gene, but you'll need loads of practice before you get consistently superb results. But as your skill increases, you be able to adjust your roasting to be able to get exactly what qualities you want from your chosen beans.


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## jimrobo

I didn't actually know about the de gassing?! I was under the impression the fresher the better!

Does that mean if you order a batch from a roast to order roaster when you receive the product it gets better with age before it deteriorates if that makes sense??


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## vintagecigarman

Exactly.

But there are varying opinions about when the prime time is reached, and it varies between beans.

Sent via Tapatalk from my HTC Desire HD.

And, actually, the world DOES revolve around my Glen of Imaal terrier!


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## jimrobo

That's interesting.

Do people generally consider it days or weeks for the degassing to improve the beans?


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## CoffeeMagic

Can be anywhere from 2 to 6 days on average. Generally taken care of if you have it sent via mail. If you are roasting yourself then you need to roast ahead. As I open a new bag, I roast the next. The one I have just finished took around 7 days to reach it's peak. Degassing should generally be minimal after 48hrs.


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## MikeHag

Some roasters argue that their beans are at their best AFTER three weeks post-roast. As with many things in the world of coffee, everything you read/learn/hear should (in my view) be taken as hearsay or generalisation until you have proven it as fact through your own experiments. Opinions are so often repeated by others, and soon become urban myth.

I bought a 1kg bag of Lusty Glaze from Hands On Coffee Roasters and it was still fantastically tasty and smooth (as espresso) with good crema after 6 weeks post roast, and only took a downward turn in week 7.

That said, I prefer to use beans in days 3-10 post roast.


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## vintagecigarman

I plan to be starting in on my roasted beans 3 days after roast. Usually all gone by day 5, seldom longer than 6 days after roast. That said, when I've been away for a few days and they've been consumed later than this, I've not noticed any ill effects up to about 10-12 days after roast.

But they are certainly better after 3 days than on the day of roast.


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