# Milk steaming issues



## damian (Feb 23, 2014)

Sometimes I make milky drinks like lattes / mochas when guests come over. However I find trying to steam milk a nightmare if I need more than one jugs worth. By that I mean no whirl pool, so the milk just ends up a foamy mess on top and warm-ish below. It feels to me like the machine isn't powerful enough to produce larger quantities of steamed milk. But I just wanted to confirm this as its been a recurring problem since I bought the Classic earlier in the year.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are using the panarello steam tip, you would have more control using a Silvia steam arm replacement. Easy to fit and relatively cheap.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

As above. Jug is also important, size more than anything. You really don't want much bigger than a 12oz jug and steam about 5-6oz. You can steam more in a bigger jug but you will get less control. So do the silvia wand mod and make sure you have a small jug.


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## damian (Feb 23, 2014)

I forgot to mention in the original post that this problem exists even after I changed the wand to the Silvia.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Are you getting steam out if you open the valve? Maybe obvious but need to be sure you've checked it, otherwise I would suggest it's down to the jug size and technique.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

damian said:


> It feels to me like the machine isn't powerful enough to produce larger quantities of steamed milk. But I just wanted to confirm this as its been a recurring problem since I bought the Classic earlier in the year.


The Classic has a 100ml boiler capacity which isn't that big - enough to steam a couple of decent flat whites/ cappuccinos. Remember, when you are steaming, no fresh water is entering the boiler so it can run dry.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

How much milk (ml) are you trying to steam ? Are you fully opening the steam valve ?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

What milk are you using (semi-skimmed or full fat) and also where is it from (tescos, sainburys)

Can anyone recommend bands/ shops?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

That's a great question Frank. Many people only open it so the steam whispers out.

I'm a fan of the 'all or nothing' approach to steaming and it has helped numerous students to get better at steaming


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Cravendale blue and fully open in a 500ml Motta jug giving enough steamed milk for 2x 6oz cappas etc works both on the Silvia and also the wifes classic at work (with Silvia wand mod) although requires more work.

John


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## damian (Feb 23, 2014)

I've been meaning to invest in a better jug for a while, but for the moment I've been using this one from IKEA http://m.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/art/50149843/

I always use full fat milk and only fill the jug half full. I'm not sure what that equates to in oz but it's enough to fill a standard latte glass.

Steam is definitely coming out of the wand, but its nowhere near as powerful as when I first go to use it. Like I say its not enough to create a whirl pool. If its any help the machine makes an awful noise on the second round of steaming, like a kettle beginning to heat up.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Litre = one and three quarter pints. Jug is half a litre. Spout on the jug is not pronounced enough for latte art pouring. Have a look at Andrew James range for comparison.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Are you re-filling the boiler between steamings? If not then this may explain why you are note getting as much steam through as higher up the thread the boiler size is quoted as 100ml. Without re filling you would be using up whatever steam pressure is left over if that makes sense?

John


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## damian (Feb 23, 2014)

The concept makes sense to me yeah. I'm unsure how to go about it though. Can you explain how I go about refilling the boiler please?


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## damian (Feb 23, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Litre = one and three quarter pints. Jug is half a litre. Spout on the jug is not pronounced enough for latte art pouring. Have a look at Andrew James range for comparison.


Yeah I've slowly come to realise that pouring a heart is difficult no matter how much I practice. Considering picking up a 330ml and a 600ml of the Andrew James range from Amazon. Do you think those sizes would do me well?


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Got to avoid confusing the classic with silvia but... when you finish steaming outside of doing multiple jugs, do you not then turn off the steam switch and run some water throught the grouphead (or the wand, as water) until it stops spiiting steam? If this is the case then the way to ensure consistent steam is in effect to treat the two jugs of milk as seperate workflows, this being the downside of small single boiler machines ( the boiler on the silivia from memory whilst bigger than the classic is still only 300ml).

If, am correct, then whilst slower would think of doing two drinks at a time as a full process i.e. espresso element then milk for two (if you do it this way round, some do some don't), then run water though grouphead till starting to heat again, bring up to temp espresso then milk etc.

Hope this helps (assuming correct), John


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

damian said:


> The concept makes sense to me yeah. I'm unsure how to go about it though. Can you explain how I go about refilling the boiler please?


Turn off the steam, run the brew switch until water starts coming out the group and then put the steam back on.

Also start steaming before the light comes on to show the boiler is up to temp, that keeps the boiler going and the pressure up.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

damian said:


> Yeah I've slowly come to realise that pouring a heart is difficult no matter how much I practice. Considering picking up a 330ml and a 600ml of the Andrew James range from Amazon. Do you think those sizes would do me well?


I have a 350ml motto jug which I love (perfect size for the classic). I can get a pretty good whirlpool in my 600ml Andrew James jug too.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

damian said:


> Yeah I've slowly come to realise that pouring a heart is difficult no matter how much I practice. Considering picking up a 330ml and a 600ml of the Andrew James range from Amazon. Do you think those sizes would do me well?


I had an Ikea one a while back and both of the above will improve your art and will be cheaper than the Motta jugs.

John


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

If you are trying to steam two jugs full from one boiler fill that is your problem, you should be able to steam half that jug full comfortably.

After steaming to refill the boiler, place a cup under the steam wand, flick the BREW switch on (as well as the steam switch) then open the steam valve. This is the same as drawing hot water, when the water flows from steam wand ,close the valve and flick OFF the brew switch. Boiler now full. Allow to come to temperature and continue steaming.

I think Gaggia say NOT to steam for more than one minute (look in manual)


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## damian (Feb 23, 2014)

johnealey said:


> Got to avoid confusing the classic with silvia but... when you finish steaming outside of doing multiple jugs, do you not then turn off the steam switch and run some water throught the grouphead (or the wand, as water) until it stops spiiting steam? If this is the case then the way to ensure consistent steam is in effect to treat the two jugs of milk as seperate workflows, this being the downside of small single boiler machines ( the boiler on the silivia from memory whilst bigger than the classic is still only 300ml).
> 
> If, am correct, then whilst slower would think of doing two drinks at a time as a full process i.e. espresso element then milk for two (if you do it this way round, some do some don't), then run water though grouphead till starting to heat again, bring up to temp espresso then milk etc.
> 
> Hope this helps (assuming correct), John


Ah this is what I've been missing in my workflow. It makes so much sense now, thank you all for helping me out. Will see how tomorrow mornings rounds go and I'll post back here with my findings.

Going to pick up those Andrew James milk jugs now. Do you think its worth picking up a temperature gauge along with these? So far I've just been going by touch.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

You will find that once you have the hang of it you will always go by touch. It's probably worth getting a thermometer to calibrate your hand so to speak.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

No, buy TempTags. They are much better than thermometers - they don't break, are more hygienic and don't get in the way when steaming

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/brands/temptag.html


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Actually. What he said ^^^ I did have them on my jugs for a while. Really good piece of kit.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Thermometer or tags such as sold by BB can be helpful to work out when to stop steaming (burning) the milk until your fingers get trained especially with different jugs. The Motta jug for example gets no where near as hot as the ikea one did ( I swapped to get a better pour for what I laughingly call "art") seeming to be either twin walled or thicker steel.

Good luck, john


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

damian said:


> ...If its any help the machine makes an awful noise on...


Hi Damian

Try to do this:

( of course , make sure there is no water at all by pulsing the wand. There is no need to talk here)

1/ steam nozzle down a bit into the milk first

2/ Then, open the steam valve

3/ follow the technique:





[/QUOTE]

iam going to list Motto jug 500ml in excellent condition in original box. I will let you know if you are interested


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> If you are trying to steam two jugs full from one boiler fill that is your problem, you should be able to steam half that jug full comfortably.
> 
> After steaming to refill the boiler, place a cup under the steam wand, flick the BREW switch on (as well as the steam switch) then open the steam valve. This is the same as drawing hot water, ...)


I think

- Place a cup under the steam wand

- Open the steam valve

- Flick Brew switch + steam switch

Please correct me if I am wrong


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Depending on how hot you like your milk it can be worth buying the soy milk temptags as they turn yellow at a lower temperature than the semi skimmed and full fat version, I have temptags on all 3 of the jugs I use, Motta Europa 12 oz teflon for 1-2 drinks, the 480ml Sage one for 2-3 drinks and the 750ml Motta Aurora Boots passed on to me for more than 3 drinks at once. I wouldn't go back to using a thermometer ever again.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Soy TempTags (the red ones) light up at 58c

The Brown (aka Full Fat) and Cream (aka Skim) TempTags both react at 65c - the only difference is the colour - for cafes to identify Skim milk jugs


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## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

I've had the Classic (post 3 way valve 2013 model that I bought of MikeMc) for a few weeks now and I also have the same issue. Whilst technique has an important role to play in making great latte or cappuccino milk the steam pressure in the Gaggia Classic is nothing like in the latte art videos you see who use expensive equipment. So whilst the videos are good for technique they don't address the issue here.

My machine also has the Silvia wand and OPV mod (Not the Silvia v3 with 3 holes in the nozzle, just the single one).

From reading around the internet today I found to get constant steam pressure you have to turn on the Steam prior to when the Boiler reaches temperature (before the light on the Brew switch comes on). Prior to this what I did was start steaming when the light on the brew switch came on and the result was (after purging) I got around 10 seconds of high pressure steam after which the pressure reduced to a whisper and farting would give more pressure lol. This was obviously not good enough to make great latte or cappuccino milk.

To keep things short this is what I've found after some experimentation. (Sorry if this is like sucking eggs to some of you, but it was a revelation to a newbie like me)

After making your espresso shot. With the machine still Switched ON and Brew Switch OFF:

1. Switch ON the Steam switch.

2. Wait around 45 seconds

(During this time you will hear the machine make a two separate clicks. I use the second click as an indicator when I should start to turn the steam knob to purge water out from the wand. The first click occurs around the 30-35 second mark and the second 45-48. The trick is just to start steaming before the light comes on the brew switch so times may vary slightly).

3. Turn the Steam Knob anticlockwise slowly to purge the Steam wand under a microfibre cloth for around 15-20 seconds, otherwise I find the Steam is still too "wet".

(After this I close the Steam Knob; Place the pitcher with milk under the wand (This is where technique now comes into play); Turn the Knob back on fully open and attempt to create micro foam for my lattes. The Steam pressure lasts much longer than 10 seconds, I recorded around 50-55 seconds worth of steam time).

I also found this link a good resource for practicing making latte or cappuccino milk using water and a drop of "Fairy" liquid.

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/learning-latte-art-with-steamed-soapy-water-t7248.html






and

http://silviaschool.com/node/9

I'm going to persist with the Gaggia for a few more weeks, but it isn't time effective as I expected it to be. I just hate waiting around unnecessarily for things, especially Steam.









If anyone else has any other tips or methods to get constant high steam pressure for a good minute at least please can you share it?


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Blimey, Glenn. Thanks for posting the link for the temp tags. Never knew they existed. Do they stick on or are they magnetic? I am really getting to grips with my milk textursing at the mo, but I do go by the feel of the jug and gauge it from that. There is definitely an art to nailing milk texturising, but once you have the basic jist then it is merely a case of honing and fine tuning it. It has taken me an absolute age, but purely by accident a friend visited with her daughter recently and it turns out that the daughter used to be a barista in a coffee shop, so once I found this out I was grilling her about getting good milk. Sometimes there is no substitute for having someone who knows what to do stood next to you showing you. There is only so much you can learn off Youtube. Certainly switching to the Espro Toroid jug has helped as it creates it's own little vortex and sucks the air into the milk to get the most wonderful, silky, glossy microfoam.


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## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

Does it matter which position you place the wand in the pitcher if you have the silvia mod with a single hole nozzle tip or 3 hole tip?


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

I have a Silvia wand on my Gaggia and I use a Motta 500ml jug. The cups I use for latte hold 10oz so I fill the jug just to the bottom of the spout which gives me 8 oz. Up till now I have only just managed to steam enough milk for two cups in one go. I had some friends round recently and wanting to show off my coffee making skills producing just four lattes and embarrassingly ran out of steam halfway through the third cup and had to finish that and the fourth in the microwave! Now I understand how to draw more water into the boiler which heats up very quickly I find, I will be fine.

As for getting the right consistency in my milk as the U Tube video showed, for latte putting the tip of the wand in just below the surface and at nine or three o'clock in the jug gives me a good chance of getting perfect micro foam most of the time. Doesn't improve my latte art skills though unless anything resembling something painted by Salvador Dali is good, but then I am about as ham fisted as they come.


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