# Dialing in my beans - Gaggia Classic and Sage Smart Grinder Pro



## Mm391 (Apr 19, 2020)

Hi Everyone,

I am relatively new to the coffee game. I like flat whites but enjoy the occasional espresso. I thought I had dialled in my machines fairly well using the following:

Dose = 17g

Yield = 34-35g

Time = 29-30 seconds.

I thought this seemed pretty dialed in and thought I was getting a fairly nice tasting flat white, maybe with a slightly bitter after taste that lingered for a little while but never the less quite nice. But today I brought my first Flat White for a few months (incidentally they used the same beans as I have been using) and it was a lot smoother with no lingering bitterness. So I have gone back to reading up about Dose, Yield, Time, Extraction Vs Strength, grind size, etc. A couple of things I was looking for some advice and see if I am on the right path to correct dialing in based on the following:

1) My first thought is to reduce the yield, maybe to 1:1.75 thus reducing the extraction and brew time and in theory, resulting in a less bitter shot? Or should I be making the grinder coarser first before messing with yield?

2) If I was to increase the dose to 18g, continue with a 1:2 ratio but make the grind slightly coarser, thus reducing the brew time, again reducing the extraction, increasing the strength and make it less bitter?

3) When I remove the portafilter there is always a very small amount of standing water on top, but reading Barista Hustle they say this shouldn't matter too much as a wet puck is a far lesser evil than an uneven extraction! I wanted to know, I am using the stock double basket that came with my Gaggia, is this an 18g or 17g basket and would using 17g in an 18g basket make dialing in more tricky?

Thanks for taking the time to read.

Matt


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

Morning,

I'd suggest watching this short Hoffmann series on understanding espresso. Very informative and has tips regarding what to change etc


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mm391 said:


> 1) My first thought is to reduce the yield, maybe to 1:1.75 thus reducing the extraction and brew time and in theory, resulting in a less bitter shot? Or should I be making the grinder coarser first before messing with yield?


 There's nothing magic that will change between 1:2 & 1:1.8 (1.75 is probably a bit tricky to nail repeatedly). But ultimately, 4g of output might not make a big difference, maybe try 1.6/7 (26-29g out). You're aiming to extract less, so why change grind. If the grind should be coarser, it should be coarser at 1:2 as well.



Mm391 said:


> 2) If I was to increase the dose to 18g, continue with a 1:2 ratio but make the grind slightly coarser, thus reducing the brew time, again reducing the extraction, increasing the strength and make it less bitter?


 If you stick to 1:2, reducing extraction won't make the drink stronger. All equal extractions at 1:2 will be the same strength, lower ones will be weaker, higher ones will be stronger. Really here, you seem to be putting in work to go from square 1 to square 1 again, or make negligible changes.

You don't know why the shot is bitter, so if 1:2 has been working for you, dose the basket appropriately & focus on grind changes to steer taste. If you are brewing 1:2, then you don't need to nail a time, you make grind changes until you get the best flavour & record time as a broad sanity check (e.g. if the next shot is 10s faster with same grind setting & coffee, *and* tastes off, you likely did something wrong in your prep/failed to purge grinder etc.)

I don't have one, but I thought stock Gaggia baskets were ~16g?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I'm a newb, but every thing I have read says change one thing at a time, and either purge your grinder, or change the setting but keep it for a couple of drinks (so not wasting beans)

Could you ask the shop what they do?

Have fun


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## jazzersi (Apr 17, 2020)

MWJB said:


> I don't have one, but I thought stock Gaggia baskets were ~16g?


 Agreed they are on the small side! My best advice for OP would be to get an 18g VST basket. Made a world of difference to the consistency of my gaggia and means that I basically never consider dose anymore, I just stick to 18g and it is one variable less.

Other gaggia tip for OP - I have found since owning mine that I get the best results with slightly longer shot times. Obviously your mileage may vary, but my tastiest shots always take around 35seconds for a 1:2 ratio. I also use the Sage SGP, and am normally somewhere between a 4 and a 6 depending on the bean.

Hope that helps!


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## Mm391 (Apr 19, 2020)

Thanks @jazzersi. I have just received a VST basket and bottomless portafilter so will see how they work out. I have tried the long shorts but taste wise do enjoy a shot with a bit more body and slightly heavier feel. But saying that I will try the long shots and see how they compare. Just not sure how much caffeine I can handle in one day lol.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mm391 said:


> Thanks @jazzersi. I have just received a VST basket and bottomless portafilter so will see how they work out. I have tried the long shorts but taste wise do enjoy a shot with a bit more body and slightly heavier feel. But saying that I will try the long shots and see how they compare. Just not sure how much caffeine I can handle in one day lol.


 Sorry, what are these "longer shots" you mention, I can't see any references to anything longer than 1:2 so far?


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## Mm391 (Apr 19, 2020)

@MWJB🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Stupid fat thumbs and autocorrect


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mm391 said:


> @MWJB🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Stupid fat thumbs and autocorrect


 Sorry, I wasn't clear, what is longer about these shots?


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