# Profitec Pro 300



## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

I'm looking to purchase my first espresso machine. I'll only be using it for 2 or 3 cups per day so I'm trying to keep the budget in perspective but, at the same time, I'm keen to avoid buying too basic a machine that I'll likely want to upgrade later on.

Having read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of videos over the last few weeks I'm most impressed with the Profitec Pro 700 but I'm wondering if that might be a bit OTT for my needs so I was looking at the other Profitec models. The Pro 500 is a HX machine with a lot of info online but it's hard to find any reviews of the Pro 300 (there isn't even anything on youtube or any threads here).

I was wondering if anyone owned one or had experience of using it ? I've seen that it's sold by BB so I'm hoping so.

From what I can tell it's a dual-boiler with the benefit of a quick start-up time (spec below). What I'm not sure about is if the small boiler size (0.32 litre) introduces any problems and what a 'ring brew group' is ? Anything to be aware of ?

http://www.profitec-espresso.com/en/products/espresso-machines/pro-300.html


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I dont recall anyone having this machine on here ( i could be wrong )

have you considered a Expobar and or Sage machine in the same price range , you will get lots of feedback on those


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The small boiler is used exclusively for brew, so for small volumes and especially with PID control this is arguably all you need. People get very good consistency out of a Gaggia Classic with PID which has a boiler 1/3rd of that size. I think the Sage DB uses a similar small brew boiler. You may find if you were to pull 4-5 shots almost back to back that the temperature may drop off, but you would get used to this and the PID would keep you informed.

Are you considering the Expobar DB/Sage? They are in this price range and there is extensive experience of them on the forum.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

La Marzocco Mini uses a small brew boiler.

This machine will probably be good, Profitec have a decent name, just a slight gamble for now as the model isn't really out in the wild.

Can't maine my mind up on the styling. Love the drip tray, the top part not so much


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks guys.

I started with the Sage machines and came close to pulling the trigger before I found this place and began learning a bit more. At first I was wary of all of these manufacturer names that I'd never even heard of (at least I knew Breville!) but then you learn more about the advantages they offer and.... you know how it goes









Saying that, I haven't ruled out the Sage machines, probably aiming for the Dual Boiler model (not the Oracle).

When you see these machines with the covers taken off there seems to be some that are a real rats nest but the Profitec machines look sensibly layed out and relatively easy to work on (I've watched all of the WLL 'Tech Tips' videos on the Pro 700). That's one of the main reasons that's drawing me to the Pro 300 but it's a bit of a concern that there's so little owner info out there.

I probably need to get to BB and see it and get their advice.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Going to BB would be a good idea certainly!

The Sage has its fair share of electronic gubbins, most other machines of this type are fairly simple internally.


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

I had a useful email conversation with a helpful engineer at Profitec yesterday. I asked him about the ring group head

"The Pro 300 has a group head where the coffee boiler is attached on the top. Advantages to this boiler are very fast in heat up ( 4 minutes) as direct material contact. Not like as on an E61 group head where the group heads gets heated by water circulation. But the E61 group head has of course other advantages."

The portafilter is the same size as used on the PRO 500/700.

I was mainly looking for any negatives to see if there's any reason not to purchase this machine (as the very fast heat-up really appeals) so this list is only listing a few other downsides that I uncovered yesterday when compared to the PRO 700

* Vibration pump (same as in PRO 500).

* Steam/water valves are not the sprung long-life components.

* Can't be plumbed in.

* PID only on brew boiler.

My other main concern is the lack of user feedback online but from the list above I can't see anything that is putting me off purchasing the machine. With it being £600 cheaper than the PRO 700 I'm very tempted as it'll allow me to put more of my budget towards a decent grinder (but that's for another thread!).

A couple of photos from Profitec's facebook page

http://goo.gl/FupBu5

http://goo.gl/uebHzK


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

This might be helpful (sorry if you found it already), there was too many pages for me to read! On a German site where somebody was considering buying it: http://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/profitec-espresso-pro-300-oder-doch-rocket-58.76378/page-1

I used Google translate which isn't perfect but you get a sense of what they're discussing at least on the first page.


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks for that. Interesting that the thread is dated 2013 which means the PRO 300 must have been around for at least a couple of years (maybe not in the UK though?).


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## greenm (Oct 27, 2014)

Thought I might offer some info that may help you decide:

* Vibration pump (same as in PRO 500) - Vibe pump isn't necessary a bad thing it will be louder but some vibration pumps have good dampening and can be very quiet, you wont get a better coffee out of a Rotary Pump

* Steam/water valves are not the sprung long-life components - If you don't over tighten they should be good for many years

* Can't be plumbed in - At 3-4 shots a day do you really need a plumb in option ?!

* PID only on brew boiler - This is the only real draw back for me, but do you pull many milk based drinks though

I have a Pro 700 and can vouch for the quality of these products and I absolutely love my Pro 700 but its an absolute luxury, if the Pro 300 allows you to put more money towards a good grinder you will get better coffee out of the Pro 300 with a good grinder compared to say a Pro 700 with a bad grinder. If you like the way it looks (as it is quite quirky) be different and go for it, does the PID have a shot timer like on the Pro 700 by the way

Hope some of this helps, I found it tough to make a decision as there are so many options out there but BB are great and will steer you in the right direction


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

Thanks greenm, that's useful.

I'll probably only be pulling milk based drinks at the weekend so I doubt I'd have been looking to plumb a machine in but I just wanted to list the info for anyone else referencing this thread later on. Due to not making many milk drinks I like how the PRO 300 allows you to turn off the steam boiler with an easy to access switch on the front panel. I believe this is behind the drip tray on the PRO 700 ?

It does have a shot timer which seems to work the same way as the PRO 700 (on the PID panel).

and yep, I agree about it looking a bit odd (nowhere near as nice as the PRO 700) but it's not really something I'm too bothered about.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I actually wouldn't worry about the lack of PID on the steam boiler. There are only a couple of reasons you would ever need this feature, either you have a HX machine and want to play with the flush/cooling cycle or you want to experiment with more/dryer steam pressure or less/easier to manage steam pressure, but the latter point is easy to forget about once you have learnt how your machine produces steam.

A PID on the brew boiler is way, way, way more important.

The 300, to me, looks like a better buy than the 500, I don't like the looks as much but the PID brew boiler is a big plus which you don't get with a HX.

The Profitec will be in the same kind of league as the Expobar in terms of build quality, the Sage... who knows, its too young.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

calc said:


> Thanks for that. Interesting that the thread is dated 2013 which means the PRO 300 must have been around for at least a couple of years (maybe not in the UK though?).


I saw on one of the pages they were discussing it before it's release (but I was hoping they also carried on after it was perhaps bought by somebody







). It was slated to be released in Germany early 2014. I thought the same though - surprising that it's really hard to find any commentary on it given it's been around a little bit...


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

I visited BB yesterday to take a look at the PRO 300 and was expecting to make a purchase but I had such a useful chat about the pros and cons of the various machines that I came away with more to think about. It really was very helpful advice (as expected from what I'd read here!).

One of the disadvantages of the PRO 300 that I'd missed off my list above is that there is no possibility of pre-infusion (no chamber in the group head). Being new to this I'm trying to figure out how big a problem this is and if it should put me off purchasing a PRO 300. So,

1. Is pre-infusion important in terms of taste/consistency ? It appears that this may not an easy question to answer?

2. Does a E61 group head only pre-infuse if the machine is plumbed in?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

calc said:


> I visited BB yesterday to take a look at the PRO 300 and was expecting to make a purchase one but I had such a useful chat about the pros and cons of the various machines that I came away with more to think about. It really was very helpful advice (as expected from what I'd read here!).
> 
> One of the disadvantages of the PRO 300 that I'd missed off my list above is that there is no possibility of pre-infusion (no chamber in the group head). Being new to this I'm trying to figure out how big a problem this is and if it should put me off purchasing a PRO 300. So,
> 
> ...


THIS MAY HELP

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/is-there-purpose-for-e61-middle-brew-lever-position-t3643.html#p38899

You will get some debate going there , my answers in capitals above


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

To add to the confusion, there are a few different types of e61 pre-infusion

1.(applies to all e61 groups) There is a chamber in the e61 that fills up as the pump is activated, this chamber provides a small ram up in pressure. Vibe pumps have a longer ramp up than rotary pumps. (vibe a few secs, rotary a second or so)

2. (applies to lever e61 groups) lever e61 groups have a 'halfway' stage to the lever. This opens up the line but does not engage the pump. If you have line pressure (plumbed in) you will pre infuse the puck a this pressure. If you do not (tank) you will just wet the puck, which arguably does very little. Engaging the pump has the same affect as a group with no lever and ramps up quickly.

I can't comment on wether any pressure ramp up affects the way the shot pulls. I have an e61 machine and still suffer channeling from time to time, and I still get sink shots.

If you can get the folk at BB to pull two identical shots for you, one from the P300 and another from an e61 design group, it may help answer your question.


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

I ended up purchasing the Profitec PRO 300 yesterday from Bella-Barista.

Seeing as this was the first PRO 300 that BB have sold and they are the only official Profitec vendors in the UK then maybe I am the only PRO 300 owner on here which I find a bit odd considering it's been out for 18 months. It makes me wonder if it's a daft decision for my first espresso machine but if it consistently produces the kind of shots that it was pumping out in the 30 mins of experimenting that we did at BB then I'll be happy. That's all I need !


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

I've still not had a chance to have a proper play with my Profitec PRO 300 but I've been having a PM conversation with someone in America who's interested in finding out more about it so I thought I'd copy & paste the info into this thread. It's a bit waffly but seeing as there's such little info out there it might be of some use to someone....

Q1 : How fast does it come up to temp?

I timed it from ambient to 94°C in 2 mins 5 seconds. Obviously it's better to wait for the group head and portafilter to heat-up but the small brew boiler sits directly ontop of the group-head so they heat up fast (very hot to touch within about 5 mins or so). This fast start-up was a big part of the reason why I bought the PRO 300 over an E61 machine. I researched how the E61 group head works (great document here to explain it : https://goo.gl/PNXJpR) and decided that the thermal stability from the thermo-syphoning was not that important to me (as I'm only making one cup at a time then turning the machine off) and I can live without the 'subjective' benefits of pre-infusion. The fast start-up is a real bonus in the morning (no need for pre-timer switches or any faff like that).

The timed heat-up test I did was just the brew boiler but I don't think it's significantly slower with both boilers turned on. My energy meter shows that both boilers pull 1.2kw each (1.2kw when making black coffee, 2.4kw when turning on the steam for a milk drink). The brew boiler temperature is clear to see on the PID and for the steam boiler you look at the pressure gauge and when it gets to the green zone you are good to go. I find that I'm never waiting for the steam boiler, it's always at temp before I've finished making the espresso. Even after steaming the milk you can see it get back to temperature really fast.

I haven't done a lot with the steam wand but I get the feeling that it's pretty powerful. There are 4 holes in the nozzle and the saleswoman in the shop said she thought it was punching above it's weight in the strength of steaming.

Q2 : What is the little metal button/knob looking thing centered just above the drip tray?

This is a vent for a pressure relief valve (also found on E61 machines). When you turn the pump off it will sometimes exhaust hot water out of the bottom of this into the drip tray.

Actually, the hole in the drip tray that is cutout for this vent could do with being a bit larger as the water often catches the edge and splashes over the top so I'm considering using a laser-cutting company (via work) to enlarge it.

Q3 : Is the drip tray loose or does it snap in somehow?

The drip tray is very simple. It just slides in/out on the rails that make up the frame of the machine. Here's a couple of photos that I took with my phone to show you the tray and the rail.


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https://flic.kr/p/17858525214


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https://flic.kr/p/17842985443

When you push it back in it tucks under a raised lip on the front panel of the machine. It's all very neat and easy to use and there's plenty of volume to the tray itself so you don't find yourself having to empty it too often.

Q4 : How are the valve knobs? I know they're not the super durable ones from the 700, but how are they to use?

They seem fine to me. There's a good feel to shutting them so you know it's closed and you don't have to wind them far to turn them on to the max position.

Q5 : Do the boilers auto fill from the reservoir?

Yes, both boilers auto-fill and you can hear the pump working automatically so you know when it's happening.

Q6 : Are the LED's particularly bright/blinding, or just normal brightness?

The LED's are normal brightness. I was actually expecting these to be on when the boiler is being heated and off when it's idling but I think they just stay on 100% of the time when the machine is on so you can't really tell when the boilers are cycling their heating elements on/off (unless you have an energy meter).

Q7 : How does the reservoir fill? Can you fill it from the top somehow or do you need to pull it out from the back?

You lift off a stainless steel lid from the top of the machine (which has two finger sized holes in it), then the tank is large and easy to access. You can actually take the tank out if you want to, it has a fitting on the bottom which seals via an o-ring with a satisfyingly solid feel. Here are a couple of pics


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https://flic.kr/p/18279589980


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https://flic.kr/p/18276066260

Q8 : Is there any sort of descale access that you know of?

None that I know of. I don't think you can drain the boilers so a descale will involve the usual routine of emptying the machine, filling the water tank with cleaning chemicals, running the pump to fill the boilers, leaving them to cleanse then flushing thoroughly. I am using bottled water so am hoping not to have to descale for a very long time.

Q9 : It says it has a "low water level switch-off" - is that for 1 or both of the boilers or the reservoir - any idea?

I think the low water switch is in the reservoir as you can see a sliding float within a small tube within the tank which must be used by a sensor. The boilers will always be full so I guess the machine just switches off when the reservoir is low i.e. before either boiler can run-out of water.

----------------

Some other quick points worth mentioning

* It's got a full size/E61 porta-filter which accepts VST baskets.

* The group head sealing gasket is the same component as used in the E61.

* PRO 300 manual : https://goo.gl/K9cn4c


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## Krax (Oct 26, 2014)

calc said:


> I had a useful email conversation with a helpful engineer at Profitec yesterday. I asked him about the ring group head
> 
> "The Pro 300 has a group head where the coffee boiler is attached on the top. Advantages to this boiler are very fast in heat up ( 4 minutes) as direct material contact. Not like as on an E61 group head where the group heads gets heated by water circulation. But the E61 group head has of course other advantages."
> 
> ...


I have the Pro 700 and am really pleased with it. I considered the Pro 300 but decided against it as I did not want to loose the benefits of the E61 group head which I considered fundamental (simply because most high end prosumer machines use it so figured it must be worth it), even though I would have loved a faster heat up time.

As far as the non-PID on the steam boiler goes on the Pro 300, this should not be an issue because as soon as you start to draw a significant amount of steam the heating elements come on full anyhow. This is the reason Profitec do not consider it necessary to provide independent PID parameters for the steam boiler on the Pro 700 even though it has dual loop control.

I hope this helps with your decision making. I struggled the same but do not regret spending the extra on the Pro 700 as I know it will do me for a long time.

A trip to BB really helped me decide.


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## Krax (Oct 26, 2014)

Definitely not a daft decision as you did plenty of technical research as well as having the machine demonstrated for you. The fast warm up time is a terrific bonus if the shots are as good as you would get from an E61. A brave decision nonetheless being the first to buy in the UK.

Glad you are enjoying the coffee from it.


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

A short review with photos : http://coffeecrew.com/gear-equipment-coffee/lifestyle/469-living-with-the-profitec-300-db-machine.html


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## emrehan (May 8, 2017)

calc said:


> A short review with photos : http://coffeecrew.com/gear-equipment-coffee/lifestyle/469-living-with-the-profitec-300-db-machine.html


Do you still own the Profitec 300? Highly appreciate ıf you can give an updated view on your experience so far.


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

emrehan said:


> Do you still own the Profitec 300? Highly appreciate ıf you can give an updated view on your experience so far.


Hi emrehan,

I do still own it and bloody love it









I should point out that I wasn't a coffee 'expert' when I bought it as it was my first espresso machine but I've now owned it over 2 years and used it several times a day for all of that time and it's still working as well as when I first got it. I'm still not a coffee expert but I'm more than happy with the quality of the coffee that it pumps out so have never felt the need to upgrade.

I've never used anything other than Waitrose bottled water with it and have never descaled it as it's working fine and the coffee tastes good. One of the main things that drew me to it was the German build quality (there are a few videos comparing the inners of Profitec machines to others) and I'm happy to say it's been 100% reliable.

It heats up within 5 mins, consistently makes lovely espresso and you can probably tell I'm more than happy with my choice. Only negatives I can think of are that the steam wand is not so easy to use (but that's probably my inexperience) and it's not the prettiest of units compared to some of the bigboy machines like the Pro700.

I got mine for just under £1k, not sure how much they are going for now but at the time it felt like a good price for the quality. I don't regret not getting a E61 group head machine as the coffee I'm making with the Pro300 is consistently good enough for me and my non-discerning taste buds!


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## CardinalBiggles (Apr 24, 2017)

.


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## emrehan (May 8, 2017)

calc said:


> Hi emrehan,
> 
> I do still own it and bloody love it
> 
> ...


Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm trying to figure out which machine is best for me. I mostly drink americano/espresso and occasionally milky drinks, 1-2 cups per day. Most important thing for me is the quick warm-up time. I think I don't need a dual boiler. I'm struggling to make a decision between Profitec 300, ECM Classica II with PID and Rocket Appartamento. Each has own pros/cons. I know I have to make a visit to Bella Barista, very confused right now.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

looks like a really great little machine


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## emrehan (May 8, 2017)

There aren't many Profitec 300 videos around, found 2 new videos..


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## Osheac10 (Dec 19, 2021)

> On 16/05/2017 at 19:06, emrehan said:
> 
> There aren't many Profitec 300 videos around, found 2 new videos..


 This is great! Although this thread is a bit old it hasn't stopped being so useful!


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## Osheac10 (Dec 19, 2021)

It would be interesting to see if anyone else has anything else to say about this machine


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

Hi Osheac10

OP here, and I'm still using my Profitec 300 and it's still going strong. I've owned it for 6.5 years and it's still working perfectly despite zero maintenance (other than external cleaning). I've used it daily during all of that time and, to be honest, I wasn't expecting it to be as reliable as it's been but it just keeps going and going (as does my Ceado E37s grinder which feels unbreakable and is built like a tank).

At this rate I reckon they could both outlast me 🤪


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## 2bor2bru (Mar 7, 2016)

@calc Hi. great to hear your news about the Pro 300. Have you ever had to descale, and do you continue to use Waitrose bottled water?? Thank you.


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## calc (Mar 29, 2015)

I've never descaled it and have always used this water

https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/essential-still-natural-mineral-water/058459-29416-29416


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## 2bor2bru (Mar 7, 2016)

@calc Thank you so much for replying. That is one great espresso machine you have. The pro 300 does not seem to get the publicity of other machines, but maybe in this case, no news is good news. Have a good Christmas, and many more espressos.


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