# The Great British Taste Off



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, tonight was the night that @Drewster decided to come around and play innocent victim as I tried to educate myself to the finer points of quality brewed coffee.

Caravan Roasters were the culprits

FINCA DEBORAH GEISHA, 45 grams of 2 varieties. The beans turned up, very nicely packaged with some blurb telling me what delights to expect.

https://www.caravancoffeeroasters.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/finca-deborah-geisha?variant=38258220362









So, we talked about how to attack this project at great length. Using the Niche we made a V60 then a small French press with the Amenity one. The V60 I made, probably far too quickly, even with greta encouragement from Andrew. The result was a nice bright cup with no sediment, looked very nice, tasted....hmmmmm.....not exactly sure of what. A slight citrus flavour that vanished very quickly. Then same bean in the press. Initially thought the longer immersion might benefit the delicate flavours. First sip at 60 degrees, nice mouthfeel but no discernible taste.

So, onto the Bliss. Andrew made a V60 this time, and properly, making a bloom and using the scales to weigh the water input. It certainly looked a better brew but for me anyway, was equally as tasteless. Next we tried it in the Trinity One which is akin to the Aeropress. All recipes were 15 gms to 250 mls water. Again, greta care was taken but it was hard to say if it was any better than any of the others.

I have decided to send the remaining 15 grams of each bean down to our resident brew expert, MWJB who I hope will confirm that my tastebuds are indeed dead!

It was a useful experiment. I am the sort of person who will try things,, even when I suspect I know the outcome as after all, education is a brilliant thing. Was a bit of fun. No conclusions. Drewster will no doubt add his comments as he gets a chance


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I suppose at £5 a cup its worth a go but doesn't leave a chance to play around with grind and process, I also have a terrible feeling that at 52 my taste buds may have seen better days -but its not all over till they nail the lid down


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> ......Was a bit of fun. No conclusions. Drewster will no doubt add his comments as he gets a chance


Indeed.......

All brews 15g dose into 250g-ish output....

Water just off the boil...

Goose neck kettle

Target temp for drinking circa 60 degree (some we tasted hotter, all tasted at circa 60 degree, some we tased once cooled more - but not a measured temp)

The First V60 with the Amenity

As mentioned by dfk a fairly "rough and ready method".

"Brown ( unbleached?) V60 papers

Wet V60 paper from kettle into V60 glass jug, throw away water.

15g "coarsish" dose - via Niche

Dumped into wetted v60...

Small amount of water poured on to "bloom"....

jiggle/stir with wooden stirrer...

Remaining water poured on "in one go" - poured via goose-neck NOT "just dumped"

Left to drain....

Note: Noticable grinds "up the side" of paper

Output: as per dfk - Clear and clean.

Taste:.... OK... nothing "in your face"....

As it cooled there was a noticeable "juicer" after taste.

We both agreed that if we were served this in a cafe we wouldn't actually send it back!

I think that if MrsD tasted it in a cafe she wouldn't pull a face and wouldn't say "It needs sugar!"....

This (I kid you not) is actually a complement wrt brewed coffee/pourover....

We followed this with the small French-Press

Pot warmed from the kettle and drained.

15g dose in... then water.... quick stir... Press bit on top and left to stand circa 3min stc by dfk....

Press plunger slowly down into "top" of coffee (ie not deep into grounds to stir up)

(We could possibly have left the coffee to brew for longer and specifically to settle a bit more).

Poured fairly gently into cups (we didn't discard anything off of the top).... there was some liquid left in the bottom with the grounds ie we didn't try to get everything out and (hoped/intended to) leave most of the silt etc behind.

We let the cups cool a bit (60ish deg) - obviously we could have left the coffee unpaired for longer

Distinctly more "mouthfeel"...

Distinctly "darker" brew... (longer brew time/contact +)

+ Distinctly "siltier" coffee...

Less "juiciness" (for me) and I personally don't like the siltiness (Method could be improve this  )

We then repeated with the other sample (Bliss)....

I did the V60 bit.... Same wetting of paper and warming of pot but (a little bit more "care" - even if no more skill).

Circa 30g Bloom plus stir.....

Approx 4 slowish pours in a gentle circular motion only raising the level "a bit"...

Then left final pour (up to 250g... well 253g actually) to drain "almost fully"...

This left a pretty flat bed fairly smooth....

We were both pretty underwhelmed with this one....

There was nothing "wrong" with it.... but.....

It was pleasant enough..... I think MrsD (if served it in a cafe) would have screwed up her face and said "It need sugar".....

Daves next brew in the Trinity produced pretty similar reactions....

Next experiment needs to be - Having someone who knows what they are doing make me (and Dave) a brew.....

Preliminary verdict..... I won't be spending that sort of money on beans ;-)

PS I should add when I have had brews made in (some) cafes particularly V60 I have had some "really nice" cups produced.... (I have also had some proper Meh! brews and even some Uggg brews)

I think the skill factor might make a big difference....

PPS - Dave made me a couple of flat whites the other day and his skills in that direction are certainly better... even given his preference for more "robust" flavour his espresso/flat whites were delicious!

(NB Robust not Robusta)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nice write up. Personally I've never had a 3 minute French press of specialty coffee that has got near the spot. It's. Just not long enough to get the coffee out of those lighter roasts.

Geisha are funny beans, price dictated by supply and brand...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I think the sweet spot is around £8-£12 per 250g. When beans are super expensive it's hard (and rare) for them to hit the expectation that comes with the increased cost. Like was said in the other thread, top end pricing can be more about scarcity than quality - gimme a nice £12/250g Kenya over a super rare Geisha lot any day.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

After Drew left last night, I tasted the last brew, even though it was cold. I started to get something, but was it Lemon Sherbert or Licquorice and Blackcurrant


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## Rom (Jan 20, 2017)

Nice reading chaps


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

...Bean (Been) there! - Done that!

I think I'll stay with my espresso:yuk:


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> After Drew left last night, I tasted the last brew, even though it was cold. I started to get something, but was it Lemon Sherbert or Licquorice and Blackcurrant


I suspect Lemon sherbert might not be far off the mark. My experience with much less expensive geishas are that they tend to have huge sweetness (like white sugar) and lots of lemon and orange type flavours and often a touch of effervescence.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Drewster said:


> Indeed.......
> 
> All brews 15g dose into 250g-ish output....
> 
> ...


I'm tempted to give v60 more effort, but can't really decide where to pitch the grind. Can I ask roughly what Niche setting you used? I've heard anything for the calibration mark to one full turn past zero?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I'm tempted to give v60 more effort, but can't really decide where to pitch the grind. Can I ask roughly what Niche setting you used? I've heard anything for the calibration mark to one full turn past zero?


 @dfk41 might know the setting - basically it was on/near the "Filter" area of the Niche.... and the grinds (of some dummy beans) looked "roughly" like I use when making V60 at home....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

richwade80 said:


> I'm tempted to give v60 more effort, but can't really decide where to pitch the grind. Can I ask roughly what Niche setting you used? I've heard anything for the calibration mark to one full turn past zero?


There's a fair range of settings that will work, because you can slow the brew down by making small & frequent pulses of water, or speed it up by adding water in larger amounts. Basically, stick with one method & brew size for a bit & adjust grind if a particular fault is persistent (smoky, sickly go coarser, weak unripe go finer.

I'm making Melitta brews at the calibration mark, with a bloom & 3 large pours...when I was using a comparable grind setting with V60 (don't currently use the Niche for V60) that equated to a bloom & 6 pours, for 1 mug that might be 14g coffee, 33g bloom for 40s, 33g every 20s thereafter until 233g in brewer, brew ends 3:00 +/-15s.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

v60 i was back past calibration and near the start of espresso range


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks @dfk41 beans turned up this morning, ground 15g of the Gesha Amenity and made a V60 (33g bloom, swirl, leave to 40s, then 33g every 20s up to 232g, swirl once & drain, dry bed 3:05, 19.8%EY).

On grinding the dry grounds smelled a bit like pink marshmallow sweets. Struck me as being a natural, but it is processed via 'carbonic maceration' (carbon dioxide).

Clean, refined, some blackberry but it's rounded & gentle, not like a big, punchy hit you might get from a Kenyan. A floral, light tea undertone. Fair sweetness & very balanced. Aftertaste dissipates quickly.

Nice? Certainly. Blow your socks off? Maybe if you wear gossamer thin socks, made from golden orb weaver spider silk, several sizes too big  But that's not really what you're paying for here, it's more the subtlety & refinement, almost ethereal qualities (and that's despite bumping up the brew ratio from the 60g/L I usually use for light Scandinavian roasts, to 65g/L).

Gesha Bliss to follow after I have done the washing up.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mark, without the ability to put it into words so well, your summary basically follows the thoughts drew and I had. You ought to enjoy it as you know what it is, but......we found very little difference between the two. if anything, Amenity had a slightly stronger taste where as the other had a better mouthfeel, with the first couple of sips.....thanks for your thoughts


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Mark, without the ability to put it into words so well, your summary basically follows the thoughts drew and I had. You ought to enjoy it as you know what it is, but......we found very little difference between the two. if anything, Amenity had a slightly stronger taste where as the other had a better mouthfeel, with the first couple of sips.....thanks for your thoughts


13g of the Bliss, so I adapted the method a little, 25g bloom & swirl, at 30s add 25g every 15s. Dry bed 2:37, 18.9%EY.

This seems an oddly dark roast. Perhaps more traditional coffee like, but if I thought the Amenity was ethereal, this is like fleeting ghost of a coffee. When in the mouth there is a roasted coffee base, there is also sweetness and orange blossom? Yes, perhaps, like weak Satsuma especially in the aftertaste, not getting anything like apricot. When you swallow, it is all but gone, almost like it was never there. Beyond clean.

This isn't the first time I've tried very expensive coffee and found the flavours pleasant, but also very low intensity.

Thanks again David for the chance to try these.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> 13g of the Bliss, so I adapted the method a little, 25g bloom & swirl, at 30s add 25g every 15s. Dry bed 2:37, 18.9%EY.
> 
> This seems an oddly dark roast. Perhaps more traditional coffee like, but if I thought the Amenity was ethereal, this is like fleeting ghost of a coffee. When in the mouth there is a roasted coffee base, there is also sweetness and orange blossom? Yes, perhaps, like weak Satsuma especially in the aftertaste, not getting anything like apricot. When you swallow, it is all but gone, almost like it was never there. Beyond clean.
> 
> ...


The pleasure was mine! I think that ends the very expensive experiment for the moment!


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Great descriptions that @MWJB







thanks a lot!

Speaking of grinding for V60: at 13g I have no chance to make drinkable stuff in 3+ minutes... deffo need to improve grind


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I am with Ronsil and Dave K, I have tried various brew methods and had discussions with MWJB on brewing but still much prefer espresso. I can just about tolerate a French press if the machine has not been on.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

El carajillo said:


> I am with Ronsil and Dave K, I have tried various brew methods and had discussions with MWJB on brewing but still much prefer espresso. I can just about tolerate a French press if the machine has not been on.


Well, these are far from typical coffees, whether brewed or espresso. I wouldn't expect them to taste any different as espresso, Americano, or long black. Even as espresso they'd be low in intensity.

Interesting, delicate, pleasant, but even my usual filter beans have plenty more wallop.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> This isn't the first time I've tried very expensive coffee and found the flavours pleasant, but also very low intensity.
> 
> .


Yep same here, Part of me sees coffee blossom and jasmine and think these notes are so vague in taste as to fit into the " ghost coffee " experience. There was one Columbian Geisha I had from Atkinsons , was an absolute bowl of fruit salad and was a mighty espresso when nailed.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Amenity stuff





MWJB said:


> Bliss stuff


Well it is reassuring to know that our cackhanded attempts weren't too far removed from the results of someone who knows what they are doing


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