# Clever Coffee Dripper Review



## big dan

I have not seen much on these forums about the CCD (Clever Coffee Dripper) but just thought i would post my experiences here.









Price: £15-20 available from all your usual

I was looking for a good solution for work as i work a night shift on my own and can't bring myself to drink the coffee from the machine at work. I already have a Porlex hand grinder and an aeropress but i couldn't get consistenly good results from my aeropress. There are so many varying techniques and sometimes my coffee was too bright or tasted a little over/under extracted so i thought why not try the CCD as i had heard good things about it.

Bottom line, i love this thing! It produces a consistently good cup every time. Bascially it is like your standard filter cones (V60 etc) except that it a one way valve on the bottom that is only activated when you place it on top of a cup. This means you get the benefits of a full immersion brew (like a french press) with the benefits of a filter coffee (no sludge in the cup).

Here is how I have been brewing with the CCD:

- Filtropa Size 4 popped into the CCD and rinsed with hot water

- 20g of coffee ground almost as course as french press

- 330g of water

- Stir after 30 seconds to get rid of crust

- Brew for 3 minutes

- Place on cup

- Drink!

It is also very easy to clean like other filters. Just remove the paper filter and throw in the bin. Then the CCD just needs a quick rinse out.

TOP TIP: Some people have complained about stress cracks on the CCS after only a few months. This I believe is because of running cold water to rinse it out and the plastic going from super hot to cold very quickly. So rinse out your CCD with the left over water in the kettle and you should be fine!

This is so simple to use it makes a great cuppa. And it is super easy to adjust to your tastes. You can increase brew time or grind size for simple and noticable results. For example I have been making the grind size a little bit finer to get more flavour from the coffee without over-extraction.

In the cup it has more body than the aeropress but still retains a good clarity. I love thick gloopy espresso and often find brewed coffee too thin for my liking but this is the best of both worlds for me.

If you want a super geeky cup where you need to experiment with inverted aerial pouring techniques from your hario poruing kettle or some kind of OCD obsessive stirring technique at 36 seconds and 110 seconds with a counter clockwise spin then the CCD probably isn't for you! But if you need a method that is super easy to do and produces consistently good results then the CCD is right up your street!

9/10 from me!

ps....just realised i posted this in Brewed Forum, it it should be in Machines/Grinders/Accessories then Mods please move!


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## DoubleShot

Great write up. A few photos during the various stages would be good. Thanks.


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## big dan

Sorry for tardy reply. I have only just come back to work (where i keep my CCD) so will start some brews and put some photos on for ya!


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## big dan

As requested here are some pics of the CCD in actions:

Contents Included the CCD itself, a coaster to stand it on and a lid. Also pictured but not included are Filtropa Size 4 filters which are required.









Filter paper in the CCD and 20g of coffee added (please note i forgot to rinse the filter but I do usually do this before adding the grinds)









Blooming wonderful!









I usually give the grinds a stir at about 30 seconds to break any crust on top, afterwards looks like this









Lid placed to on top to retain heat


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## big dan

CCD in action! One way valve activated and coffee flows into cup (clear glass used here for illustration purposes!)









Leftover grounds at end. Nice thing is that once you lift it off the mug the one way valve closes so you can carry the whole thing to your bin and then throw filter away without dripping on the floor!









Hope this is helpful for everyone!


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## DoubleShot

Very helpful. Many thanks for sharing.


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## DoubleShot

Got to say now I know how to use a CCD I'm tempted to get one.

Any suggestions which place has the best deal on one plus appropriate filters? Thanks.


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## big dan

Bella Barista has them for £16.99 Herel

For filters you also need to get size 4 Filtropa or similar. They are the ones with a flat ended bottom like this one here

That's under £20 for faff-free coffee!


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## chipbutty

Bella Barista, like many others, are still selling the old style CCD. CoffeeHit have the newer version here



DoubleShot said:


> Got to say now I know how to use a CCD I'm tempted to get one.
> 
> Any suggestions which place has the best deal on one plus appropriate filters? Thanks.


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## froggystyle

Your grinds look a tad too course i reckon, try them just off espresso and compare the taste.


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## DoubleShot

My collection of brew methods is increasing. Already had an Impress Brewer. Finally got myself an Aeropress today...yay! And yet still fancy one of these CCD (new version). Ultimately one will probably be kept, the others moved on.


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## big dan

Yes I did tighten the grind up a little froggystyle, I have found slightly courser is my preference as the finer I go the easier it is to over extract! Will report back with findings!!

Double shot didn't know there was a new new model thought mine was! Ha ha didn't realise there was a version 3 already!!


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## DoubleShot

froggystyle said:


> Your grinds look a tad too course i reckon, try them just off espresso and compare the taste.


Is it guess work trying to get the correct grind level using the cheaper hand grinders such as a Rhino which isn't stepped nor has any sort of numerals to indicate what setting it's on?


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## DoubleShot

big dan said:


> Double shot didn't know there was a new new model thought mine was! Ha ha didn't realise there was a version 3 already!!


Neither did I until chipbutty provided a link:

http://coffeehit.co.uk/clever-coffee-dripper

Thanks for the heads up!


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## big dan

I have a porlex mini that has no numerals but you you count the clicks as you turn the adjustment wheel. It's not hard once you have it dialled in and with the CCD even if the grind is slightly off its still ok!


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## chipbutty

I'm so tempted to get one of these newer CCDs after binning my old battered one. I really don't need another brewer though. Take a look at my sig! I still have a load of size 4 filters so that's a good excuse isn't it?











DoubleShot said:


> My collection of brew methods is increasing. Already had an Impress Brewer. Finally got myself an Aeropress today...yay! And yet still fancy one of these CCD (new version). Ultimately one will probably be kept, the others moved on.


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## big dan

I leave my CCD at work that was my excuse to myself!! Lol and yes you do need something for those filtropa's to go in!!


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## DoubleShot

Well if you've already got the associated filters...it would be rude not to pair them with a CCD v3! 

chipbutty, I hereby authorise the purchase!


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## DoubleShot

.


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## chipbutty

Mmm. Well I no longer use the Eva Solo so that could go. Trouble is it takes me half an hour just to decide what brewing method to use these days. It's tough.



big dan said:


> I leave my CCD at work that was my excuse to myself!! Lol and yes you do need something for those filtropa's to go in!!


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## Spooks

Really fancy a CCD but wife would kill me having another way to make a mess


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## DoubleShot

Sometimes is nice having a choice. Other times it's tough having too much choice available!


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## DoubleShot

Women...can't live with 'em, can't live without them!


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## chipbutty

Haha. I've always been easily led. I'm now going to ponder it over a mug of Rooibos tea.



DoubleShot said:


> Well if you've already got the associated filters...it would be rude not to pair them with a CCD v3!
> 
> chipbutty, I hereby authorise the purchase!


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## MWJB

Spooks said:


> Really fancy a CCD but wife would kill me having another way to make a mess


Not trying to encourage you but it's probably the least messy brewer.


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## Mr O

Good read,

I'd already been pointed towards one of these by....ummmm..someone. I'm getting one when i get my coffee gadget allowance.

This has just convinced me even more, cant wait to drink decent coffee at work. The Aeropress, though simple at home was just too much of a faff at work.

CCD you are the solution


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## markf1988

Im curious what everyone thinks about CCD, the v60 and Kalita wave? Im keen to try something new but I think getting all three would be a push- best investing one at a time haha


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## froggystyle

DoubleShot said:


> Is it guess work trying to get the correct grind level using the cheaper hand grinders such as a Rhino which isn't stepped nor has any sort of numerals to indicate what setting it's on?


No idea, ill let you know tomorrow when i use mine for the first time with a V60.


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## DoubleShot

You posh boys with your fancy V60's! 

Rhino v1 is what I currently have in the way of hand grinder. Only used it a few times along with my Impress Brewer. It's still on the setting from the original owner, which I think was used for an Aeropress or Moka pot. Forget which?


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## MWJB

Different thing to V60 & Wave. They're both drip brewers, you can drip with a CCD by putting it on a cup before you start brewing, but most folk steep the coffee & water together before draining, like a French press with a filter paper. The CCD is less faff, no need for pouring kettles etc., easy to get 'coffee' out of. The others take a bit more technique but van be more steerable with practice.


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## MWJB

DoubleShot said:


> Is it guess work trying to get the correct grind level using the cheaper hand grinders such as a Rhino which isn't stepped nor has any sort of numerals to indicate what setting it's on?


Start at the finest setting & work out. Put the water in first if worried about over-extraction.


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## MWJB

3 Clevers (later model) since yesterday, paper filter only (not my usual method, usually use a Swissgold too) & Rhino grinder...

#1 18g:282g, zero on the Rhino, 2min 10sec to grind. WAITROSE ESSENTIAL rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 60C. 2min draw-down. 31min total. A bit fine, particles in the cup, not bad, but lacking mouthfeel & a bit of sweetness, muddy flavour, slight hard edge.

#2 18g:256g, 1 click out on the Rhino, 1min 50sec to grind. WAITROSE ESSENTIAL rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 60C. 2min draw-down. 33min total. A bit sweeter, better mouthfeel & flavour...still a slight harsh edge.

#3 17.5g:252g, 2 clicks out on Rhino, 1min 40sec to grind. TAP WATER rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 57C in brewer. 1:20min draw-down. 34:30 total. No hard edge, pretty good cup, round & sweet. Best of the 3, good glugging temp...which is just as well really...

Bigger brew should hold their heat better.


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## DoubleShot

The coffee is still warm/hot after 30+ mins?


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## MWJB

I find coffee much over 60C difficult to drink & pick up the flavours. Preheat your cup, you should have time ;-) There's always the microwave?

How hot do you think espresso & milk drinks typically are?


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## michaelg

MWJB said:


> I find coffee much over 60C difficult to drink & pick up the flavours. Preheat your cup, you should have time ;-) There's always the microwave?
> 
> How hot do you think espresso & milk drinks typically are?


I do a lot of longer steeps with mine and keep the CCD warm with two old woolly hats inside each other. Keeps it nice and warm for an hour or more. I also pre-heat my cup with boiling water when i make the coffee and again before draw-down. If I have less time I give it a longer steep but I do this when I am not in desperate need for a coffee. Like to try longer and shorter steeps with beans to get a feel for what works best with them. But I also find sometimes the sweeter flavours are more apparent when the coffee has cooled down a bit too.


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## DoubleShot

good suggestion michaelg, there's a couple of tea cosys belonging to the tea drinkers here that could be used. Will see how I get on with my Aeropress first but definitely interested in trying a CCD.


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## samjfranklin

Big fan of the CCD at work so just ordered myself and a friend one! (It's for their birthday!). Looking forward to brewing it at home.


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## gcogger

DoubleShot said:


> The coffee is still warm/hot after 30+ mins?


It very much depends on how hot you like your coffee. I tried a steep of ~30mins and found it far too cool for my taste. You'll just have to try it and see


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## DoubleShot

I like my coffee hot but drinkable without needing to blow on it to cool it down and avoid burning lips/tongue. Not sure what temperature that is? Might have to get the digital temperature probe out and measure it...


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## MWJB

You can do a straight drip brew with it too, for very hot coffee.


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## DoubleShot

Anyone able to confirm if this is the latest version (3?):

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00EOM5RN0/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Also which papers who be recommended, standard ones:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0001IXA9O/ref=pd_aw_sim_kh_1?refRID=0CPR3ES4KS6KNDSRER11

or these unbleached ones:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000YJEQMK/ref=pd_aw_sim_kh_2?refRID=0CPR3ES4KS6KNDSRER11

Thanks.


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## The Systemic Kid

Yep - it's the latest. As for filter papers not sure it matters so long as you rinse them thoroughly before brewing.


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## MWJB

There are rumours that there was a glass version at SCAA this year, that would be the latest, the version in your link is the V2 plastic. If Bella Barista have any of the V1 clear plastic Clevers with the ear shaped handle, buy one of these.

Use the white Filtropa papers.


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## chipbutty

The photo certainly shows the latest version of the CCD. I've used the standard white ones in the past.


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## samjfranklin

DoubleShot said:


> Anyone able to confirm if this is the latest version (3?):
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00EOM5RN0/ref=ox_sc_act_image_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
> 
> Also which papers who be recommended, standard ones:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0001IXA9O/ref=pd_aw_sim_kh_1?refRID=0CPR3ES4KS6KNDSRER11
> 
> or these unbleached ones:
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000YJEQMK/ref=pd_aw_sim_kh_2?refRID=0CPR3ES4KS6KNDSRER11
> 
> Thanks.


Looks like version 3 and I would go with bleached (white) ones. Check out coffeehit, they definitely only supply v3 and they probably have very competitive prices.


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## DoubleShot

W O W! Better than waiting for a bus then two arriving together...four super quick replies! 

Thanks guys.


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## DoubleShot

What are the differences between version 1, 2 & 3? Presumably they've made small tweaks/improvements for the better?

I'd prefer to buy the best one even if it's not necessarily the latest version.


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## urbanbumpkin

If you're after one I have one that I don't use any more. £12 posted


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## DoubleShot

Any idea which version it is? Do you have filter papers for it?


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## MWJB

They all work, but I get better results from the early version with just a paper filter, comparable results with the one in your link tend to be with a Swissgold as well as the paper. The later model has a larger well space under the filter paper, this seems to affect the evenness of extraction/taste clarity.

As far as I can tell the changes were more related to speeding up draw down (not really relevant) & improved access for cleaning rather than in cup results.

I use the later versions at home, use the old version at my parents on a weekly basis...have tried to liberate the version I gave them, but they won't have it. :-l


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## urbanbumpkin

DoubleShot said:


> Any idea which version it is? Do you have filter papers for it?


It's this one, I think it's the version 2. I've not really used it at work since getting the Aeropress and the Sowdens.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0047W70GY


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## DoubleShot

Yeah, go on then. Had I have known you had one of these that you weren't using, you could have sent it in the same parcel as the Aeropress funnel!


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## urbanbumpkin

DoubleShot said:


> Yeah, go on then. Had I have known you had one of these that you weren't using, you could have sent it in the same parcel as the Aeropress funnel!


Lol, cool I'll get it in the post on Monday. I think I've still got the original box. Glad it's going to a good home.


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## urbanbumpkin

Doubleshot its in the post


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## DoubleShot

urbanbumpkin said:


> Doubleshot its in the post


Many thanks Sir!









Can anyone recommend a few different beans for a first time user of a CCD. Haven't been very adventurous thus far with beans used as espresso in flat whites, mainly consisting of the following notes: chocolate, caramel and nuts. But I'm more than willing to try some containing fruity notes. Perhaps to begin with nothing too citrusy or bitter tasting (grapefruit/lime etc)!


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## MWJB

DoubleShot said:


> Many thanks Sir!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone recommend a few different beans for a first time user of a CCD. Haven't been very adventurous thus far with beans used as espresso in flat whites, mainly consisting of the following notes: chocolate, caramel and nuts. But I'm more than willing to try some containing fruity notes. Perhaps to begin with nothing too citrusy or bitter tasting (grapefruit/lime etc)!


Stick to what you like, if the beans you are using start tasting citrusy/of grapefruit & lime in the Clever, but not like that as espresso, have a look at your method. It'll be a little different (weaker, less mouthfeel) but shouldn't be making the coffee taste totally different.


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## CrazyH

Just a question on water vs coffee first?

I usually do water first at work here, so that it can cool down mainly. I notice that sometimes I get some very pale looking coffee coming out first and the result can be weak flavours. I'm guessing there is some pooling of water which doesn't come in to contact with coffee

Brighter coffees seem to not suffer as much when this happens.

This is ~330 ml water ~20g coffee. Rhino grinder 8 clicks out (I think)

I do wonder if a different paper shape would suit this method better, more like a kalita wave type of thing.


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## MWJB

Much of the coffee is held above the filter paper & the slurry is more concentrated up there, paler, weaker liquid under the filter is normal. When you add coffee first, then water, you get the opposite. It tends to average out in the cup though, so as long as grind & steep time are good it shouldn't make a difference to overall strength, it'll average out. Water in first is less likely to overextract &, to my mind, gives better clarity. Both can work well.

I wouldn't let the water cool significantly before adding coffee, I rinse right off the boil, drain the rinse water, then straight in with brew water, aiming to be quick as the water is cooling very quickly.

8 clicks out sounds coarse to me, I'm around 3 clicks on my Rhino.

The Kalita Wave style, flat bottomed paper has tended to hold back more liquid when I have used it to filter immersion brews, draw down will be longer with less final beverage in the cup? You might try a V-shaped cone paper, V60-02 & Chemex papers work fine in the later Clevers.


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## big dan

Not sure I completely understand your post CrazyH but definitely coffee first.

Filtopa number 4 paper in the CCD, rinse with water and discard, add the coffee then fill up with water to desired level . At 30 seconds I give a gentle stir to break any crust and give slight agitation to the mix.

Always had great results using this method.

Let us know how you get on or if you have any more questions.


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## MWJB

CrazyH said:


> This is ~330 ml water ~20g coffee. Rhino grinder 8 clicks out (I think).


I'd may up the dose a tad, 22g-ish, too (or bring the water down around 300).


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## CrazyH

I've upped the ratio and that's helped.

Also changed to pouring water in from a mug over coffee rather than water first straight from the tap. Helps getting the grounds immersed without having to stir much.

Looking to see if I can eek a bit more sweetness. I may try a finer grind and offset with a cooler water temp


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## DoubleShot

Had my first go using a CCD this morning. First I rinsed the filter paper, drained that into a cup underneath, which pre-heated it. 20g of Coffee Compass LSOL, 3 clicks out on Rhino v1 hand grinder. 330ml of hot water, just off the boil. Stirred after 30 secs, then left it to steep for remainder of 3 mins before releasing into cup.


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## Steve7

And?

I have settled on about 22g and 375ml. The exact amount of either tends to end up a bit more both ways.

About 1.6 or 1.7 on the hausgrind. 200ml boiling into a preheated paper and add grinds.

Pour in the next 175 to agitate and wait.

To to be honest the wait can be three to four minutes or as long as I leave it... It always tastes good.


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## garydyke1

Tried a clever today.

25g

450g water 94c

plonked the grinds on top of the water and put the lid on.

70 mins later the EY was 19.4% (still too hot to drink immediately)

At the 2 hour mark it was 22.3% (drinkable)

Ill take another measurement in the morning


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## DoubleShot

Oops...forgot to put the lid on mine! 

Thanks for the reminder there, garydyke1!


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## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> Tried a clever today.
> 
> 25g
> 
> 450g water 94c
> 
> plonked the grinds on top of the water and put the lid on.
> 
> 70 mins later the EY was 19.4% (still too hot to drink immediately)
> 
> At the 2 hour mark it was 22.3% (drinkable)
> 
> Ill take another measurement in the morning


How would you describe your grind?


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## garydyke1

MWJB said:


> How would you describe your grind?


So the measurement this morning hasn't budged . 2 hours seems to be the limit, and you simply cannot over extract!

The grind was about 8oclock on the EK dial. medium /filter drip? Too course for the Garymex Chemex and too fine for Marco bulk brewer


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## big dan

DoubleShot said:


> Had my first go using a CCD this morning. First I rinsed the filter paper, drained that into a cup underneath, which pre-heated it. 20g of Coffee Compass LSOL, 3 clicks out on Rhino v1 hand grinder. 330ml of hot water, just off the boil. Stirred after 30 secs, then left it to steep for remainder of 3 mins before releasing into cup.





Steve7 said:


> And?


And how did it taste Doubleshot? You got me all excited with your fantastic method only to leave us all on a cliffhanger!









Gary - 8 hours? That's crazy. It definitely goes to show that the CCD is easy to use!

Still loving mine!


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## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> So the measurement this morning hasn't budged . 2 hours seems to be the limit, and you simply cannot over extract!
> 
> The grind was about 8oclock on the EK dial. medium /filter drip? Too course for the Garymex Chemex and too fine for Marco bulk brewer


For the early Clever my target is ~25%EY in immersion mode. I'd agree, it's very, very difficult to over-extract when putting coffee in on top of water, but I'd give it another crack between fine drip & coarser espresso range (or Garymex grind) & see what you get? Counter-intuitively, lower brew ratios seem to reign back extraction too, so I don't often drop below 64g/l.


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## garydyke1

I think finer and hotter definitely, might go up to 26.5


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## DoubleShot

@big dan

If it is a fantastic method, then pat yourself on the back as it was both yours and MWJB's method's that I was following.

How did it taste? Hard to describe it or know what to think as I have tried so little brewed coffee. I don't have a refractometer (yet might I add!) so unsure if I'm hitting the sweet spot with these particular beans and tasting all the notes that they contain?

Before I started making espresso (in flat whites), it was pod-based coffee or instant with milk, no sugar. I've never been a black coffee drinker. Obviously it might take a little getting used to it. Also I'll need to try a variety of beans. Can't pass any judgement on one of the first beans I've tried using the CCD, that were actually intended for espresso.

I did remember to place the lid on today although not sure how much benefit it has over a 3 min steep time compared to 1-2 hours using garydyke1's method?


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## Nod

I am loving the clever at the moment. On holiday and the coffee is just delicious!! Made a has bean brazil this morning and the dark chocolate was just bounding out of the cup... Really easy to use and A great thing to have in the coffee armoury...


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## big dan

Don't place your kid on top of it! Thats just silly! I would put the lid on instead!

As long as it tastes good to you thats all that matters!

I was getting dark chocolate orange from those LSOL beans! Very nice!


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## MWJB

DoubleShot said:


> @big dan
> 
> If it is a fantastic method, then pat yourself on the back as it was both yours and MWJB's method's that I was following.
> 
> How did it taste? Hard to describe it or know what to think as I have tried so little brewed coffee. I don't have a refractometer (yet might I add!) so unsure if I'm hitting the sweet spot with these particular beans and tasting all the notes that they contain?.


Not a method I recommended, I'm afraid (but do whatever floats your boat), you were about 32mins short & a little light on grounds for my method.

How did the taste compare to the notes for that bean?


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## DoubleShot

@MWJB

My mistake, was big dan's suggestion in first post of this thread.

What's your recommendation? Will give that a try next time.

Thanks.


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## MWJB

DoubleShot said:


> @MWJB
> 
> My mistake, was big dan's suggestion in first post of this thread.
> 
> What's your recommendation? Will give that a try next time.
> 
> Thanks.


Brew #3 would be my start point...

"3 Clevers (later model) since yesterday, paper filter only (not my usual method, usually use a Swissgold too) & Rhino grinder...

#1 18g:282g, zero on the Rhino, 2min 10sec to grind. WAITROSE ESSENTIAL rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 60C. 2min draw-down. 31min total. A bit fine, particles in the cup, not bad, but lacking mouthfeel & a bit of sweetness, muddy flavour, slight hard edge.

#2 18g:256g, 1 click out on the Rhino, 1min 50sec to grind. WAITROSE ESSENTIAL rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 60C. 2min draw-down. 33min total. A bit sweeter, better mouthfeel & flavour...still a slight harsh edge.

#3 17.5g:252g, 2 clicks out on Rhino, 1min 40sec to grind. TAP WATER rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 57C in brewer. 1:20min draw-down. 34:30 total. No hard edge, pretty good cup, round & sweet. Best of the 3, good glugging temp...which is just as well really..."


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## big dan

34 mins is a long time to wait for your coffee though? My method isn't my method really just the recommended starting point when I first got it. Will try a longer brew but not really practical for me!


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## MWJB

big dan said:


> 34 mins is a long time to wait for your coffee though? My method isn't my method really just the recommended starting point when I first got it. Will try a longer brew but not really practical for me!


I wait longer than that daily, you don't have to stand by & nursemaid it - brewing is taking place all by itself, set it brewing, do other things then come back to it. If you like your coffee hotter then it won't work for you, but most here drink espresso & milk based drinks which are not served scorching hot.

Practicality is more relevant to the situation...it's handy to not have too critical timings if at work & receiving urgent calls & mails. You can just put the Clever on a cup & drip brew too in 2-4min.


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## big dan

I work nights sometimes and I'm on my own so I can definitely try it then when I have time! Will report back!


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## jlarkin

Sorry if two posts come through, (mobile signal issues):

Partly replying to remind me to try this with the new CCD I got and also wondering Big Dan, did you manage to try it?

Sorry I'll read back but in case one of you good people know (I'm sure you do) how would the grind on this with Filtropa Papers compare to say a v60 or chemex?


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## bronc

Just set up my brew - 13g beans ground at 5-6 clicks on my Hario Slim (feels like a coarse espresso grind between my fingers), 200g water at 95*C. The water went in first and the grounds second. I'll be brewing this for 30mins and see how it tastes. The coffee is El Salvador El Molino (you can select the language from a menu at the top)


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## bronc

The brew was okayish but nothing interesting. It turned out pretty balanced in the cup with very slight acidity and some pretty weak caramel aftertaste. Overall it tasted pretty bland. Any suggestions?


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## MWJB

Was it hot enough? Not tried a Clever brew that small, usually nearer 300g water minimum.

Was it sweet?

If it's just the intensity, updose a tad, 70g/l?


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## bronc

The brew was at about 55*C when I poured it. Just a tad sweet maybe. I don't think it was the intensity, I think I just didn't extract enough of the flavor. Maybe grind finer?


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## MWJB

Try finer, but also I'd have the water as hot as possible, literally fill the brewer to rinse with water straight off boil, drain it & straight in with brew water from the kettle...the temp drops quickly once the water is in the brewer.

Going too fine will make the taste a bit muddy, if much too fine you might see a little silt in the cup.


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## bronc

Thanks, will report tomorrow.


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## KrisP

bronc said:


> Thanks, will report tomorrow.


How did that go?


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## bronc

Didn't get to it..


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## DoubleShot

Made one of these both today and yesterday using two beans I've got on the go at present. Both very different in tasting notes and both enjoyable.

Used MWJB's suggestion (option 3) in post #76 above.


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## KrisP

MWJB said:


> #3 17.5g:252g, 2 clicks out on Rhino, 1min 40sec to grind. TAP WATER rinse w/boiling water, fill & add coffee, wet quickly, cover & steep until 57C in brewer. 1:20min draw-down. 34:30 total. No hard edge, pretty good cup, round & sweet. Best of the 3, good glugging temp...which is just as well really..."


I'm not familiar with the Rhino. How might that compare to my Baratza Encore? Or, how would you describe that grind more generally so I can try to copy?


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## MWJB

KrisP said:


> I'm not familiar with the Rhino. How might that compare to my Baratza Encore? Or, how would you describe that grind more generally so I can try to copy?


Around fine drip to coarse espresso territory, ~0.4 to 0.5mm av. grind size?


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## bronc

Had a go at it again but this time with a sample of Brazil Daterra Sweet Yellow Bourbon I was given by a roaster. 13g beans ground at ~4 clicks on my Hario Slim which would be a coarse espresso grind, 210g water, 30mins. I used the same method as before - preheat the Clever, in goes water off the boil and on top of it the coffee. The temperature when I dumped the grounds was 95*C. I covered the Clever with two tea towels to retain the heat. Just before extraction the temperature was around 65*C which is about 10*C higher than last time. Probably the result of a better preheating and the towels.

Let's get to the point.. the taste in the cup was caramel, honey, and the brew had was sweeter than I'm used to. There is some bitterness which is probably due to the grind inconsistency of the Hario but overall I'm very happy with the result.

Seeing that I'm getting pretty good results with long brews made with an espresso grind fineness I'm thinking of grinding with the SJ for the next cup. It should be better than the Hario, right?


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## DoubleShot

What difference to taste in the cup will it make adding water first then ground coffee on top (as bronc does) as opposed to grounds first then water on top?

Also is there any need to stir with a spoon or paddle as with other brew methods?


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## Mrboots2u

DoubleShot said:


> What difference to taste in the cup will it make adding water first then ground coffee on top (as bronc does) as opposed to grounds first then water on top?
> 
> Also is there any need to stir with a spoon or paddle as with other brew methods?


Try it and see.....

Stirring can aid even extraction , but in a long steep ( like Sowden ) your really looking to do as little to the coffee as possible , so make sure it's all under perhaps, pat it down ? @MWJB


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## DoubleShot

I've been adding coffee first then wetting them as quickly as possible whilst adding all of the water.


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## bronc

The way I understand it is that pouring the water on top of the grinds agitates them, which in a such a long brew can overextract and bring bitterness to the cup. This wouldn't be such an issue if you were using a filter/coarser grind but with such a fine grind you have to be more careful. If you stir the grinds you are again agitating them and may end up overextracting.


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## MWJB

Mrboots2u said:


> Try it and see.....
> 
> Stirring can aid even extraction , but in a long steep ( like Sowden ) your really looking to do as little to the coffee as possible , so make sure it's all under perhaps, pat it down ? @MWJB


With coffee in first, the very first part of the extraction can act like a drip brew, with the water draining through the bed & filling the well under the filter with very concentrated brew. May bump up mouthfeel? Also as Bronc says, it can lead to overextraction if the water is added in small pulses.

I prefer, in a steep, to really push the coffee as much towards steep as possible (& away from drip) by limiting flow through the bed, I find it more consistent for a given EY. So coffee on top prevents any flow through the bed until draw down,I feel you get better clarity too, but not everyone might be after that. I wouldn't pat down, just 'wet' the grounds at the suface, they'll sink of their own accord...I have seen EY drop in other steeps if the grounds are sunk too early & I'm really aiming to get the max out of them in this method.

Other than just getting the coffee wet in an immersion, I don't stir/paddle if I can help it (only with Turkish brews, or if my grind is so fine that clumping & clods prevents the grounds from wetting evenly). Stirring can boost your extraction in a drip brew. Also in a shorter steep, where the extraction target is lower that the max extraction, but I haven't seen it increase extraction in a long steep, but it can affect flavour adversely even at a good EY, I think it can break up the undissolved matter & cause excess non-dissolved particles that can have a bittering effect.


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## DoubleShot

Water in first then coffee grounds on top (sprinkled or just emptied on top?) would be your recommendation then MWJB?


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## MWJB

Sprinkling will take too much time (your brew water is cooling rapidly), may work for smaller doses? Empty all the grounds on top & just lightly combine them with the water at the surface, just so there's no obvious dry grinds, nor big clumps, try & get the coffee in, wet & the lid on in around 30s?


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## DoubleShot

Okay will try that next time. Previous couple of times I've used my CCD, I'd say I had the coffee grounds in plus water from kettle on top within approx. 10 secs then lid on followed by tea cosy.


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## Wuyang

I'm working my way through all the different methods I've seen on you tube. I really should make notes because I forget which method did what. I noticed that sometimes it seems to taste more buttery.


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## Glasgow Al

I have a Clever Dripper sitting here on my desk at work, and I have to say that I have struggled to get a decent cup out of it. After reading through this thread I think I will take it home where I have the time to experiment with it a bit more.


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## big dan

Glasgow Al, what were the symtpoms of the coffee you were getting out the CCD? And what sort of method were you using? I have struggled to make a bad cup with the CCD as it is generally very forgiving!

The only thing i can think of is if you grind too fine? As all of the coffee is soaking in water for at least 3 minutes then if you grind too fine too much of the coffee will be extraced from the grinds. I use a pretty coarse grind and would suggest starting at the coarser end and then working back until you find a sweet spot!


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## jlarkin

I need to read this again as well. I haven't had bad cups of coffee but I've always found they're a bit thin in body and mouthfeel, for my tastes, which is perhaps what some people like about it or maybe I'm just not getting the best out of it.


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## MWJB

jlarkin said:


> I need to read this again as well. I haven't had bad cups of coffee but I've always found they're a bit thin in body and mouthfeel, for my tastes, which is perhaps what some people like about it or maybe I'm just not getting the best out of it.


The coffee filters through the grounds bed as well as the paper & this can make for a thinner mouthfeel, personally, I like to keep the body down, but you might find brewing at a higher ratio helps (~70g/l), as well as adding water on top of the coffee (if you are doing it the other way around).


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## jlarkin

I think an updose would probably help and I did one during the week with water in first, which as you say seemed to help a bit. So I'll try the pair together early next week I find if I'm busy at work I have less inclination to try things that I'm not sure will be a success (to my tastes) so I've been aeropressing most of this week and brought that away with me for the weekend.


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## Wuyang

How many grams of coffee and how much water do you all use?

Im generally using 16gram/350g water.....( noticed this seems lower than what some use on YouTube ).

Ive now tried a few different methods. My current brew is usually 16g straight on top of the full amount of water,

followed by a little dab with the spoon at 2 mins which sinks the last of the surface coffee. Generally drop on cup at 4 mins, but like somebody on here mentioned I've brewed as long as 20 mins and still had a good brew.

Out of curiosity how does the brew of the clever compare to the behmor brazen.....? ( just I seem to drink only brewed at the moment).


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## jlarkin

Wuyang said:


> How many grams of coffee and how much water do you all use?
> 
> Im generally using 16gram/350g water.....( noticed this seems lower than what some use on YouTube ).
> 
> Ive now tried a few different methods. My current brew is usually 16g straight on top of the full amount of water,
> 
> followed by a little dab with the spoon at 2 mins which sinks the last of the surface coffee. Generally drop on cup at 4 mins, but like somebody on here mentioned I've brewed as long as 20 mins and still had a good brew.
> 
> Out of curiosity how does the brew of the clever compare to the behmor brazen.....? ( just I seem to drink only brewed at the moment).


I generally just 60g per litre for brewed so would be 21g / 350 water and I'm going to try a higher dose next.

So far Brazen wins for me. It's more similar to a chemex but you can choose the temp and presoak with the Brazen. I use it first thing whilst feeding my girl and its very low effort brewing... Check that Brazen review thread if you didn't already see it.


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## jlarkin

Funnily enough (from my previous I'll try it next week comment) I had a very nice CCD in Paddy and Scott's in Bury St Edmund's. They put (according to the wall) 20g coffee and 350g water. Brought it out with a timer for 3 minutes.

When it came time to drawdown it wasn't really working, left it for a while only a very small bit gone through. After taking off and on etc. I opened the lid and it seemed like it had created a vacuum or something because it was very hard to take off and then it poured through pretty well.

Was very tasty, I have renewed enthusiasm for the CCD .


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## big dan

I'm 60g/L as well for my coffee ration. I make a small mug so i use 15g for 250ml. I just grind fairly coarse throw it in and add the water, gentle stir at 30 seconds to get rid of any crust and then drawdown after about 3 mins.

Interested that some people are adding the coffee on top of the water, but from what i have read that is better for longer extractions.

Still enjoying my CCD!


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## MWJB

big dan said:


> Interested that some people are adding the coffee on top of the water, but from what i have read that is better for longer extractions.


It's more for brew clarity & to mitigate uneven extraction (as water drains through the bed in the early stages) with finer grinds. Longer extractions just = higher extractions.


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## Hairy_Hogg

@MWJB, interested to hear if you have used your CCD since getting your Feldgrind and if so what grind setting you are finding best.


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## MWJB

Hairy_Hogg said:


> @MWJB, interested to hear if you have used your CCD since getting your Feldgrind and if so what grind setting you are finding best.


I made one with my parents old style Clever, 30:450g, 35 min steep at 2 turns plus "0" (e.g. turn past 12 twice & add "0"). So somewhere around there? Been mainly doing paperless V60s at home, nearly finished with that, so will try some more Clevers (newer style) later in the week.

If you are also using a V60, I'd dial in so that the V60 hits target with a single pour after bloom, Clever grind won't be far off that.


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## Hairy_Hogg

I am about 1.8 on V60 for a 2.20 (total) brew time on 12g of grind. CCD funnily I am at about the same as you, 2, for a 21:300g 35 - 40 min steep.


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## Kyle T

Just got my CCD this morning (after reading this thread yesterday) along with a shiny new porlex grinder. I went with 3-4 clicks on porlex, with 12g of Rave fudge blend, about 210ml of water and left to steep for about 3 minutes. The valve whilst so simple is brilliant and the coffee produced was lovely and smooth.

The CCD is much bigger than I expected though (compared to a V60) but I really like it and looking forward to using it again later.

Oh and I think mine is the latest model. Smokey colour plastic. Under £16 at amazon.


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## Hairy_Hogg

MWJB said:


> I made one with my parents old style Clever, 30:450g, 35 min steep at 2 turns plus "0" (e.g. turn past 12 twice & add "0"). So somewhere around there? Been mainly doing paperless V60s at home, nearly finished with that, so will try some more Clevers (newer style) later in the week.
> 
> If you are also using a V60, I'd dial in so that the V60 hits target with a single pour after bloom, Clever grind won't be far off that.


 @MWJB - Any changes in your CCD method based on further "research"?


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## MWJB

Hairy_Hogg said:


> @MWJB - Any changes in your CCD method based on further "research"?


Sorry, been solely using the Feld for drip lately, but try around 1+8?


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## James811

Just thought I'd add that I'm loving my Clever Dripper.

Ive been using a fine grind with a 10 minute steep and draw down taking around 2 minutes after that.

I seem to be preferring that to the 35 minute steep, for the two beans I'm using at the moment anyway.

All in all, a cheap, faff free and all around great piece of kit


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## h1udd

I am struggling with mine at the moment ... For the last month I get 1/2 a cup from it, then it just stops draining and the coffee won't filter through the paper .... I end up sitting a bit of it out, giving up, and taking the paper out, pouring it off down the sink and then pinning the paper ...... Might go back to French press it's less mess

what am I doing wrong, why is my filter paper getting clogged


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## Jon

h1udd said:


> I am struggling with mine at the moment ... For the last month I get 1/2 a cup from it, then it just stops draining and the coffee won't filter through the paper .... I end up sitting a bit of it out, giving up, and taking the paper out, pouring it off down the sink and then pinning the paper ...... Might go back to French press it's less mess
> 
> what am I doing wrong, why is my filter paper getting clogged


Too fine a grind?


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## James811

I use a fine grind and takes about 2-3 minutes to drain completely. It does seem to stall a bit at the middle point but it does work itself out. And the result it tasty so I have nothing negative to say about a long (is it really long) drain time


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## MWJB

h1udd said:


> I am struggling with mine at the moment ... For the last month I get 1/2 a cup from it, then it just stops draining and the coffee won't filter through the paper .... I end up sitting a bit of it out, giving up, and taking the paper out, pouring it off down the sink and then pinning the paper ...... Might go back to French press it's less mess
> 
> what am I doing wrong, why is my filter paper getting clogged


Stops draining? I've never seen this, are you saying it will sit there indefinitely until you tip the coffee out? Even if you grind fine enough to get particles through the filter paper, it still drains in a few minutes.


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## MWJB

Make sure you loosen the lid on the newer model, you can get an airlock in some instances, but cover it somewhat during draw down to preserve heat.


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## johnealey

+1 on the above, had a minor muppet moment yesterday with the clever and baffled why couldn't get any out halfway through draw down, went to lift the lid (penny still not dropped at this point...) suprised at how it was a bit stiff to move,hang on a minute, oops forgot to shift the lid a touch.(grind was similar to aeropress for a 30minute steep)

John


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