# Europiccola bean change fail



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

Hi everyone, i'm a couple of weeks into home espresso using an EP and a HG-1. The learning curve has been steep but I had managed to dial in the grind/lever technique and have had drinkable consistency for the last week with espresso beans. Unfortunately I ran out of https://www.monmouthcoffee.co.uk/product/monmouth-espresso/ and switched to my pourover beans https://www.monmouthcoffee.co.uk/product/finca-la-llama/ and everything has changed. Roast dates on both beans are the same.

The pourover beans are much higher elevation and medium roast vs medium-dark so would be harder to extract. I dosed down slightly from 14.5g to 14g (stock 51mm LP basket) and edged finer in grind to what was choking point for the espresso beans. i didn't change tamping technique (light with just fingers) but the first few shots have gone through incredibly quickly (10secs after 10secs pre infusion). I've now tamped harder and gone finer (past what was choking point for the espresso beans) and the extraction time has gone up a bit to maybe 15 secs after 10secs pre infusion. Everything so far is obviously sour.

There are no wormholes in the new pucks nor were there in the old pucks and tamping/prep technique seemed to work. Technique is to grind into blind tumbler, redistribute with chopstick, pull the plug to deposit grounds into portafilter, level with finger, tap a few times on bench to settle, tamp lightly with fingers and twist to polish. Whereas the espresso bean pucks were solid when knocked out the new bean pucks are crumbly.

Is this to be expected with the medium roast beans or is this a technique deficiency? Should I stick with the original light finger tamping technique and just keep pushing a lot finer in grind?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

The tamping pressure is the least of your worries, keep that the same.

Change other variables and see what works for you.


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

TheOrgozoid said:


> Hi everyone, i'm a couple of weeks into home espresso using an EP and a HG-1. The learning curve has been steep but I had managed to dial in the grind/lever technique and have had drinkable consistency for the last week with espresso beans. Unfortunately I ran out of https://www.monmouthcoffee.co.uk/product/monmouth-espresso/ and switched to my pourover beans https://www.monmouthcoffee.co.uk/product/finca-la-llama/ and everything has changed. Roast dates on both beans are the same.
> 
> The pourover beans are much higher elevation and medium roast vs medium-dark so would be harder to extract. I dosed down slightly from 14.5g to 14g (stock 51mm LP basket) and edged finer in grind to what was choking point for the espresso beans. i didn't change tamping technique (light with just fingers) but the first few shots have gone through incredibly quickly (10secs after 10secs pre infusion). I've now tamped harder and gone finer (past what was choking point for the espresso beans) and the extraction time has gone up a bit to maybe 15 secs after 10secs pre infusion. Everything so far is obviously sour.
> 
> ...


 Yes, medium roast SHB/high grown and you could be talking different worlds in terms of extraction fineness etc.

I roast a few different varieties and find that something like a low grown Brazilian, med to dark lets say is far more soluble than a high grown medium. 
Just to give some numbers on my mignon, Brazilian is setting 2, high grown can be as fine as 0.5, which isn't a whole way off the burrs touching (-0.5).

You also might find you need to increase weight to get a similar volume. 
In the La Pavoni I am using in the standard basket 12g of the brazilian but 14g of the medium high grown costa rican.

Tamping should be to compress the puck, no more, no less.


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

Thanks both, I had no idea how much of a difference solubility made to the choking point. I've now gone way finer than where it was for the med/dark roast, reverted back to 14.5g and kept the tamp the same as originally. Still came up a bit quick and a tad sour but way better than before. Will keep shifting it finer and hopefully get something great before the beans run out!


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

TheOrgozoid said:


> Thanks both, I had no idea how much of a difference solubility made to the choking point. I've now gone way finer than where it was for the med/dark roast, reverted back to 14.5g and kept the tamp the same as originally. Still came up a bit quick and a tad sour but way better than before. Will keep shifting it finer and hopefully get something great before the beans run out!


 Plus you'll likely need a higher temp, have you factored this? 
I try to extract my Brazilian darker roasts at 89-91, high grown lighter at 93-95. 
Obviously harder to manage with the la pav


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

My technique hasn't got to the stage of thinking of temperature as an endogenous variable yet on LP...


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

TheOrgozoid said:


> My technique hasn't got to the stage of thinking of temperature as an endogenous variable yet on LP...


 Relatively easy to measure with a £2.50 digital temp sensor. 
I attached it to the group. Then heat, flush, then wait till the group gets to 78 for Brazilian and 82 for lighter SHB. Seems to be working so far!


----------



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Don't change anything except your grind. If it's coming out in 10-15 seconds it's way too course and grind setting can vary a lot between beans. On my Niche I've gone as course as 22 and as fine as 13.


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

Thanks for the advice all, much better results today.


----------



## GlenW (Sep 7, 2013)

Glad you've got your setup working - enjoying it I hope!

I find on the HG 1 with espresso between beans I stay in the range of 1 of the macro markings, but I tend to also keep within mediumish roasted beans.

My basic recipe is

14g, 8 sec preinfusion at boiler pressure, pull lever down not at 4bar until I get a couple of drops and then lift lever up, recharge and aim to get 28s out over approx 25sec @ 9bar


----------



## GlenW (Sep 7, 2013)

As I've not met anyone else yet who has the same setup as me I'll continue with unsolicited advice.

I've found getting consistency in puck prep the biggest improvement. My routine is now

Grind into the hg1 tumbler

With my thumb on the central column of the tumbler so it doesn't fly off - give the tumbler a few good back and forth shakes

Put the portafilter on a coaster (the height of the coaster keeps it level as the handle of my DIY naked PF is lower than the bottom of the basket)

Put dosing funnel on the pf (cheap one from AliExpress)

Dose into the funnel by lifting the bottom of the basket

Quick wizz with a straightened paperclip

I find the shaking actually gets rid of most clumping and the paperclip action is mostly to evenly distribute the grounds. The funnel seems superfluous but just makes it so much easier to evenly distribute the grounds without worrying about flinging grounds from a full basket all over the counter.


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

Thanks for the pointers Glen, much appreciated. Maybe because my pour over beans were so different to the espresso blends I've had but that was almost 5 macros of difference in grind setting.

Re redistrubution, I find if I play around too much with the grounds in the portafilter there is a tendency for them to reclump. A good beating with the chopstick in the tumbler gits rid of any clumping and basket redistrubtion is a few side tamps and then bench taps to settle before tamping

One thing I have noticed is smudging around the edge of the pf basket. I guess this mean my 51mm tamper is too small? This is probably also the cause for why the beading (not sure if this is the correct term for where the first drops on a bottomless pf appear) towards the end of preinfusion tends to occur on the outer rim of basket.


----------



## GlenW (Sep 7, 2013)

I've not noticed - let me look tomorrow morning.

5 macro settings to move is a lot! That's almost half the difference between my typical espresso and v60 settings, I'm surprised, but I haven't done anything too light. (It may be that you have a different version of the HG-1 with different granularity of steps)


----------



## GlenW (Sep 7, 2013)

I see a bit of the grinds around the side too. I used to have more dots around the periphery during preinfusion - I think I've mostly fixed it with better distribution of coffee in the basket pre tamping rather than changing my tamper. When I use the paperclip to redistribute in the portafilter I'm aiming to achieve macro flatness - with no mound in the middle - which is what I found then gives consistent preinfusion drips (my dad would call this optimising the form of the surface not the finish of the surface) - and then tamp to squash and give a flat finish.


----------



## GlenW (Sep 7, 2013)

When you say you find redistribution in the basket causes reclumping - what are you using? I find thinner the better to avoid reclumping - seems it cuts through the bed more than squashing the grounds together. I also try and go down to close to the bottom of the bed going round in circles slightly bigger than half the diameter of the basket. I actually use a bit of straightened picture hanging wire with a loop bent on the end to make it easier to hold which is thinner than a paperclip but still sufficiently stiff.

I have no idea if any of this actually helps make good coffee - its just kinda fun messing with it and I seem to get something drinkable out the end.


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

a fairly hefty chopstick, which probably explains it! will find something thinner and see how big a difference it makes


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

had a go with a sewing needle, which definitely helped with regards not reclumping. but am still getting the spotting appearing on the edge of the basket rather than uniformly. will post of a video of technique (or lack of) for critique tomorrow.


----------



## TheOrgozoid (Apr 24, 2020)

needle in cork is proving pretty effective at redistributing and not reclumping. thanks Glen

also a 51.5mm tamper arrived today from @coffeechap looks great and makes a big difference to extraction. spotting is now much more balanced across the portafilter.


----------



## GlenW (Sep 7, 2013)

Great! I have a 51mm tamper. I do sometimes get some spotting around the side - hmm should I shell out for a new tamper?


----------

