# First time roast: dindt here crack on Gene Cafe



## Beans

First time roasting and couldn't hear anything... was getting muddled by the noise coming from the beans hitting the glass as well as the ventilation duct above my cooker.

Beans came out quite dark (200g, columbian, tried the gentle rise, gentle finish profile)... tasted quite sour and metallic (tasted soon after roasting), a bit like that burnt taste u get from potatoes roasted on an open fire. Burnt smell aswell.

I let it cool automatically for a while... but felt like it was taking ages so stopped it manually.


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## froggystyle

Without knowing your temp and time, i would say they don't look that bad, maybe a shade dark and uneven, try dropping your weight to 230g

Let them rest a few days then try again.

Cracks are hard to hear on the gene, the bigger AA, AAA beans help, but most normal beans its very difficult. With an average temp area you learn that you start to hear them about 13 - 14 minutes, once you hear them cracking you will know the noise and how to pick it out for next time.


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## Fatcapp

Totally agree with with froggy, they don't look too bad so leave them a couple of days.

I tend to listen as close as I can next to the exhaust, trying not to burn my ear?

Practice well help you learn when to expect the 1st and 2nd crack; 1st sounding a bit like popcorn and second sounding more like an electrical crackle.

As for cooling, I always do an emergency stop and wearing gloves I take the beans straight out into metal cylinders to air coll and then lay them out on metal baking trays to cool. The gene cafe cooling take too long and so carries on the toast much further than I want.

I hope this helps ?


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## froggystyle

Learn to hit the stop cycle before the beans are at the level you want, then let it go through the cooling cycle.


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## Beans

Ok, thanks guys, I'll give that a shot.

Btw, what are AA and AAA beans?


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## Jon

Beans said:


> Ok, thanks guys, I'll give that a shot.
> 
> Btw, what are AA and AAA beans?


I think they refer to sizing. AA are big and AAA bigger I think?


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## froggystyle

Yep, the bigger the bean, the louder the crack!


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## Beans

Ah! Got ya.


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## Beans

How many roasts does it take before the novice is able to hear and distinguish the crack using the Gene Cafe?


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## froggystyle

i still cant on some beans, but you get to know when what time it will come, plus i find smoke a good indication also.


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## 4085

beans,crack, gene.....simple. stand to the left of the machine and put your ear to the vent or chaff collector. You will hear the crack no problem. Some beans do make more noise than others of course, but once you learn to hear what you are trying to, it is easy. that said, in years of home roasting I never heard second crack yet! Because the gene takes time to cool, you need to remember the beans carry on roasting for a minute or so after you have hit cool. If you doubt press the button to cool it stops at 100 as opposed to a single click which takes you down to 60


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## johnealey

and smell 

You could also try a cardboard tube from the centre of a kitchen roll close to but not touching the drum whilst rotating, it will isolate some noise but will amplify the motor noise.

Don't be afraid to use 250g, it will last and will give you somewhere between 205 to 219/20 g of roasted. 250g may be slightly more stable and if you read the rest of @DavecUK 's guide he talks about thermals in there; remember this is not a huge drum roaster so most of what you may have seen on youtube could be mostly irrelevant

Have a good read in the home roasting section loads of good info in there


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## Beans

Ok... and getting little chaff, does that indicate anything?


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## froggystyle

Getting little chaff, do you mean off the bean and in your caff chamber after the roast is finished?


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## Beans

In the chamber


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## Beans

Yep that's what I mean


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## froggystyle

Some beans font give a lot of chaff, monsooned malibar for example. Which bean are you roasting?


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## Beans

It was a vietnam robustus bean. Did the "lazy man" profile mentioned in the Bella Barista guide book.... but it came out quite light looking, burnt wood smell, and little chaff was in the chaff collector. Tasted like paint! NASTY!


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## froggystyle

Robusta! You wanna chuck them in the bin mate, taste like crap.


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## Vieux Clou

Find a handy civet for comparison purposes.


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## froggystyle

Actually ont bin them, use them to get used to the roaster, but just don't try and drink them.


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## Rob1

Beans said:


> Beans came out quite dark (200g, columbian, tried the gentle rise, gentle finish profile)... tasted quite sour and metallic (tasted soon after roasting), a bit like that burnt taste u get from potatoes roasted on an open fire. Burnt smell aswell.


Don't know about sour but robustas aren't known for their great flavour, maybe some Indian robustas are good but from Vietnam you're looking at tones of burnt rubber. What's the 'columbian' you mentioned if you're using Vietnamese robusta?


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## Beans

Columbian was a different arabica roast I did that came out kinda over roasted. The Vietnamese was a robusta one that was light in colour even though I did it for 18 mins. I think I might be baking them...??


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## Mrboots2u

Given the Vietnamese robusta I've tasted , I'd just give up on them to be frank


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## Rob1

Could try brewing them into warm condensed/sweetened milk to make real Vietnamese coffee. I'm fairly certain they roast the hell out of them.

If you're using 918 coffee pick up 10kg of something good (ideally something that they're roasting so you can go off their flavour notes) and learn to roast with that. Changing beans all the time isn't going to help you learn, especially if you've only got 1kg to play with. I find the first 250g is a crap shoot. You can predict roughly when first crack is going to take place but that's about it. Second roast is fine tuning to get more or less acidity/sweetness. Maybe you notice scorching or tipping and want to correct that. Third roast is stopping lighter or darker. Fourth and final roast you might know what you're aiming for if you didn't screw up the first few roasts, and if you're stopping darker or lighter maybe you'll need to tweak for acidity and sweetness again (but by this point you won't have anything left to roast with).


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## risky

Mrboots2u said:


> Given the Vietnamese robusta I've tasted , I'd just give up on them to be frank


Only acceptable with a tonne of condensed milk.

I just pretend it isn't coffee.


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## Beans

Thanks @Rob1

So essentially a person can't really get a proper roast out of his beans unless he's used around a kilo in trial and error tests from that very batch? Only after that can he achieve a proper roast from the rest of his beans. Even if he's a very experienced roaster?


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## Rob1

You'd have to ask an experienced roaster that question. With a bean mass probe you'll be better able to judge what to change from one roast. BMT will let you know if you stalled first, it will let you see the rate of rise from first to second etc etc. Experienced roasters are likely to have tasted a coffee and tried to correct faults based on BMT readings, and that is experience they'll probably be able to use when roasting without a probe, so it might well be easier for them to judge exactly what caused a fault. Likewise, experienced roasters on a gene cafe might be able to judge what to do by the appearance of the bean and smell as it is roasting.

There's a chance you'll luck out and the first roast you do will be perfect, so it's just a matter of repeating it then. Of course you won't know what else you can get out of the bean by doing a darker roast (for example), and you might have to then alter things. You can definitely get a proper roast from 1kg or even less, if you can judge the hardness of the bean well you can judge how hot to roast and then from there you can just aim for targets like length of first crack and time from end of first to finish (or from start of first to finish). When you know you aren't making mistakes you'll be able to better judge what to change, making 1kg easier to work with. If you think you might be stalling first crack then you're another 250g down roasting another batch in the same way but with less of a temp drop at first to find out.

If you record your roasts (Time, Temp reading, appearance of bean + any other descriptions) you'll have a much better chance at quickly correcting faults you taste in the coffee as you gain more experience.


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## Beans

How long does it take to become someone who'd be considered experienced? If you're roasting 1 or 2 batches everyday?


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## Rob1

Depends how much you learn from those one or two batches. You might want to give your beans a little time to rest after roasting though so one or two batches a day is a bit excessive.

Record your roasts. Make sure you're only roasting beans free of defects. Crack a bean open from each batch and make sure it isn't visibly lighter inside. Listen for first crack.

Control over the end of the roast in an unmodified gene isn't great as you can only turn the heating element on and off.


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## froggystyle

My suggestion if you arena little unsure is to pick some easy beans, pick a kg of monsooned malibar and a kg of either Columbian or Brazilian, the MM is dead easy to roast and with little chaff to deal with you can concentrate on getting roast spot on plus the cracks are louder, I found south Americans easier than Africans, you do get more chaff but the plus side is you can blend them with the MM to get a great drink. Stick to one or two beans for a few roasts and play with profiles till you get confident. Nothing worse than struggling with a certain bean for your confidence.


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## Beans

Yeh when I made my first roast the other day with those columbians it really did knock my confidence when I smelt that burnt smell... however this morning I tried them out after about 50 hours of resting. ... and it actually wasnt a bad brew after all!

So Monsoon Mailbar shpuld be next on my list. Any ideas where I can get a good deal on them for a bulk?


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## hullcity

As long as you don't blast the hell out of the beans or drop them far too early, you'll get something not half bad in most cases. The fiddling with the roast just tweaks the taste to your liking and gets those little nuances out of the bean.

Assuming your vent is open and not ducted, keep sniffing the smoke during the roast. Just before 1st crack the smell changes from grassy/baking to something more pungent, and there's usually a bit more smoke.


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## froggystyle

Try 918 coffee for bulk, 10kg+


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