# Man vs Gaggia Classic



## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

Hi all.

I own an early Romania made Gaggia classic for some years (previous to that an Italy made model) and it's driving me mad! I have an ongoing problem that the pumped water through the group regularly slows to a dribble/stops. This has been going on for a long time. Sometimes if I run the pump through steam wand flow returns after a while (the pump works and runs). Sometimes if I just leave it switched off for a bit and retry flow returns. My web research suggests that commonly this is the hole in the solenoid valve blocked. I am pretty quick at stripping and inspecting this valve now and typically it looks clean as a whistle, but following reassembly it tends to work for a while, sometimes the reoccurring problem returns very quickly - at the first coffee shot! I've also stripped the boiler right down and cleaned it out. Whilst the problem is active I can't tell if the solenoid is working.

I'm sure this is repairable but not sure how to definitively t/shoot what needs replacing.

Many thanks in advance for ideas and guidance.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

It certainly sounds to be solenoid related, you have covered the common causes ie strip solenoid and strip / clean boiler.

Did you completely strip the solenoid valve into its small components OR just poke the small hole ? Did you check / clean the ports where the solenoid connects to the boiler ?

It only requires the minutest speck of scale to slow or stop the flow through the S / valve.

The fact that it runs for a while after cleaning would seem to indicate there is still some specks of debris floating about in the waterways.

You should be able to hear / feel /sense the click from the solenoid as it opens and closes. Take great care if touching the solenoid to feel movement as you are adjacent to 240 VOLTS


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

Thank you for your quick response that has given me some ideas.

So this morning it completely stopped and I disassembled/checked/reassembled the solenoid valve. On first test thereafter the water flowed correctly but then on first shot it was back to a dribble. Perhaps a coincidence but I've subsequently re-homed the crimp connectors onto the solenoid and it started working full flow again, they do feel slightly loose and "wiggly". The switches on mine make a fair old crack, but if I leave the switches on and turn on/off a the mains I certainly hear the solenoid pulling the internal slug. If I switch the steam button on/off whilst its flowing the water at the group turns on/off which I think is correct. The other thing I've noticed is that if left it takes a fair while to fill the boiler and start flowing - perhaps that's normal, I have a pressure measurement valve on a spare filter handle that reads as expected.

When it next stops I'll investigate the solenoid and those crimps again.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

astyy said:


> Thank you for your quick response that has given me some ideas.
> 
> So this morning it completely stopped and I disassembled/checked/reassembled the solenoid valve. On first test thereafter the water flowed correctly but then on first shot it was back to a dribble. Perhaps a coincidence but I've subsequently re-homed the crimp connectors onto the solenoid and it started working full flow again, they do feel slightly loose and "wiggly". The switches on mine make a fair old crack, but if I leave the switches on and turn on/off a the mains I certainly hear the solenoid pulling the internal slug. If I switch the steam button on/off whilst its flowing the water at the group turns on/off which I think is correct. The other thing I've noticed is that if left it takes a fair while to fill the boiler and start flowing - perhaps that's normal, I have a pressure measurement valve on a spare filter handle that reads as expected.
> 
> When it next stops I'll investigate the solenoid and those crimps again.


Engaging the brew & steam buttons at the same time turns the steam wand (if it's open)into a water tap so entirely normal for it to stop coming through the brew head.

If you decide to replace the solinoid, get one of the larger ones from the pre-phillips models.


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

ashcroc said:


> If you decide to replace the solinoid, get one of the larger ones from the pre-phillips models.


I wasn't aware, where would I get one please? The ones on Ebay look similar to what I have fitted.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I really do believe this is your solenoid valve become blocked with lose flakes of scale.

it can happen exactly as you're describing it. This isn't caused by scale building up in the solenoid, just scale becoming dislodged from other parts like the boiler and finding their way to the bottleneck which is one particular hole in the solenoid valve.

Ive had mine on and off so frequently at one stage because I'd left it too long between descaling, so when I did descale I had the same thing happen, and I could take the solenoid off, clear the hole, replace it and make 1 or 2 coffees and it would block again.

I just had to keep repeating the removal again and again until all the lose scale had gone,, and it took a lot of times.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

It's this hole here,, you need to get a pin that's a tight fit and go in from this side and push all the fragments of scale out.

what I would then do is fill the piece with water and cover the left hole with the rubber washers on and blow the thing out into the palm of my hand and feel the water for the pieces of scale.


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Ive had mine on and off so frequently at one stage because I'd left it too long between descaling, so when I did descale I had the same thing happen, and I could take the solenoid off, clear the hole, replace it and make 1 or 2 coffees and it would block again.


Agreed, I haven't discounted this. When you took the solenoid valve apart was it visibly blocked? I never seem to actually clear any material each time that I can see.

I think our posts crossed I will try what you suggest next it "blocks".


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

astyy said:


> I wasn't aware, where would I get one please? The ones on Ebay look similar to what I have fitted.


Sorry, I have a pre-phillips machine so never needed to look. I just know they're retrofittable from other posts on the forum is all. @gaggiamanualservice.com may know where to source one.


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## gaggiamanualservice.com (Dec 22, 2009)

I have the large solenoids


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

gaggiamanualservice.com said:


> I have the large solenoids


You can get cream for that!

Sorry, I couldn't help it


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

So after stripping the solenoid valve yesterday, this morning I made a good coffee. Went to rinse the pf under the group and it was back to a dribble thereafter. Used the turn on/off at wall socket technique and I certainly could hear the solenoid valve clicking on/off each time. Pumped some water through the steam wand and the group flow improved again. So am I back to suspecting a blocked solenoid valve? Perhaps I should strip and clean the boiler again, I live in a hard water area and use filtered water in the machine but it was last done perhaps a year ago. Next it blocks I'm going to try the method mentioned above to search for the limescale flecks in the valve.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

When you remove and strip the solenoid valve each time, are you laying the machine down on its back, or either side, or is it remaining vertical anbd on it's feet at all times?

As you may know, there's a tube running up the centre of the boiler in a Classic - and the top of this tube is where the water exits to the solenoid/group. Normally, even in a boiler with scale in it - if you're not disturbing the scale then it will sink to the bottom of the boiler and won't get drawn into the top of this exit tube.

My concern now is that you're cleaning the solenoid, but the next shot it's blocked again - so it's getting more and more scale particles drawn into the water (or present in the boiler water that's exiting the tube).

Do you use the steam wand for hot water regularly (ie after every shot, or every few shots, because you drink americanos?). This might help the explanation for how fresh particles are being drawn into the brew exit tube (as when you're using the steam wand for hot water, the Classic has to fill the boiler completely in order for water to exit the steam port - normally it's only partly full)

I'd probably suggest:

1. A good descale of the boiler (again, if you've done it previously). I appreciate that this might be tricky if you can't get water flowing, but use the steam wand to get the water out.

2. Strip down and clean the solenoid again, and soak any of the metal parts (ie not the black solenoid block) in descaler for a few hours.

3. If any of the solenoid parts are black/brown and not nice and clean - including the spring - then clean them properly with Puly Caff or similar to get them properly clean again - so that they will properly slide up and down without issue or hinderance.

4. Have you checked your dispersion plate and the smallish hole that water flows out of above it? Might be a good idea to check that the water path from the solenoid to the brew head is a clear as possible - poke some wire down it (from the solenoid valve end) or up it (from the group).

Normally, a good periodic clean of the solenoid valve exit hole with a pin does the job of reviving waterflow on a Classic - but it sounds as if yours is being slightly more stubborn for some reason.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

astyy said:


> So after stripping the solenoid valve yesterday, this morning I made a good coffee. Went to rinse the pf under the group and it was back to a dribble thereafter. Used the turn on/off at wall socket technique and I certainly could hear the solenoid valve clicking on/off each time. Pumped some water through the steam wand and the group flow improved again. So am I back to suspecting a blocked solenoid valve? Perhaps I should strip and clean the boiler again, I live in a hard water area and use filtered water in the machine but it was last done perhaps a year ago. Next it blocks I'm going to try the method mentioned above to search for the limescale flecks in the valve.


Just to add.... "filtered water"????? Do you mean Brita jug filtered or similar?

Unless it's a true professional water filter system then most "filtered" water will retain a great deal of the scale forming hardness after filtering - and it's not good for espresso machines.

Do yourself and your machine a favour and ONLY use suitable bottled water in it - Tesco Ashbeck, Waitrose Essential, etc, etc. - there are a few good/cheap ones and you'll find the details of the best ones to use on here (please don't just grab any bottled water in the supermarket, as most are not suitable and are probably worse than your tap water!).


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

Thanks @MrShades, yes when removing the solenoid valve I lay the machine on its front every time. No, not too much use of hot water through wand, normally just when descaling or attempting to improve the flow (seems to help sometimes). Yes, Britta water but I learn we have Ashbeck in the house so lesson learnt.

I'll follow your recommendations above, I still have the tools out from yesterday!


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Great - don't disturb the scale particles (leave it standing!) and switch to Ashbeck...









Keep us posted.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Even with an in line filter to my drinking water tap I have to descale monthly otherwise you will always be dicking about with the solenoid.

ive been where you are, it's no fun


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

So today I redoubled efforts in man vs Gaggia. Firstly a descale using Oust (I see you guys refer to Citric acid but not sure where to get that yet). Whilst flushing the descaling solution through the flow improved. Then disassembled the solenoid valve again (machine upright!) and the shower screen. Descaled these parts for a few hours then a Puly caf bath. They were already pretty clean but the slug certainly slides smoothly inside the valve. Reassembled it all and the flow is notably improved and reading just over 10 bar.

Thanks for all the support and advice this seems to be a great forum.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

astyy said:


> So today I redoubled efforts in man vs Gaggia. Firstly a descale using Oust (I see you guys refer to Citric acid but not sure where to get that yet). Whilst flushing the descaling solution through the flow improved. Then disassembled the solenoid valve again (machine upright!) and the shower screen. Descaled these parts for a few hours then a Puly caf bath. They were already pretty clean but the slug certainly slides smoothly inside the valve. Reassembled it all and the flow is notably improved and reading just over 10 bar.
> 
> Thanks for all the support and advice this seems to be a great forum.
> 
> ...


Re: Citric acid. You can get it from the likes of amazon or home brew shops.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I use oust .

please, everyone, , it's not a cream for my massive testes ,, so calm your tits


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## astyy (Jan 18, 2019)

Since my last post Gaggia has worked well making a few coffees and steaming milk over the last few days.

However, this morning after making coffee and steaming I went to run the water through the group to clean the pf and it was back to a trickle. I thought no matter, I'll repeat the descale process and quickly after starting the descaler through the group full flow returned. However after leaving it to descale for 10 mins or so I ran some through the wand and it was back to a trickle again. Out came the tools and a vertical remove and strip of the solenoid valve all appeared clean and normal flow returned. Perhaps I'm still working through residual scale in the boiler but it seems to me that regularly after using the wand is when it blocks. Probably not related but when running through the wand I get some water dripping from the steam valve.

I'll persevere, but currently in the battle of Man vs Gaggia, it feels like Gaggia is winning


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

I used Oust too.

Worked wonders on my camping kettle so i chucked it through the Gaggia.

As far as i could tell, or read its ok for it (No aluminium boiler or SS so)


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