# Rocket issue the past two days...



## jtferraro

I was using my Appartamento yesterday and all of a sudden I noticed the gauge (steam boiler) spike well beyond the green zone, to over 2 BAR. At the same time it made an awful noise and pressure was automatically released via the 3-way solenoid valve (that also removes excess water from the group head as you move the brew lever down to end your extraction). I immediately turned the machine off and watched the gauge drop back down to about 1 BAR. I then turned it back on and see if I can assist with reducing steam boiler pressure by opening the steam wand. Steaming functionality worked fine, but the gauge continued to climb. I turned the machine off, for good, and let it completely cool down. Hours later, I turned it on but the machine would not heat up - the needle wouldn't move and I had zero steam or hot water (from the spigot). I did, however, still have group head pressure. I called Seattle Coffee Gear, where I purchased it, and they had me take it apart to reset the t-stat. I did so, turned it on again, and could now hear the heating element kicking on to warm the machine. When I inquired about root cause, their thoughts were that the steam pressure release valve wasn't releasing excess steam pressure - perhaps it was partially clogged with a coffee ground particle or two. This could be, as I used to keep my towel on top of the machine to dry. I witnessed this valve open while the lid was off, so I know it at least works some of the time. This was a good sign, and regular functionality returned (machine didn't go over 1.3 bar). I made a few more drinks and called it a day. I was eager to try it out again this morning - and, unfortunately, the same problem occurred. At least this time it didn't throw the t-stat, as I turned it off immediately and didn't turn it on until steam pressure significantly dropped, and when I did turn it on I again assisted removing some pressure via both the steam and hot water spigot.

Has anybody else experienced this issue with their Rocket?

Thank you,

-Jeff


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## MichaelSmith81

Hi Jeff,

I'm just about to post a similar topic for my Rocket R58, this does a similar thing. When turning the machine on after about 15 minutes the steam pressure continues to rise up to the point the OPV releases the excess pressure. Its as though the heater doesn't shut off and the water in the boiler is continued to heat. I suspected a relay problem at first, but this didn't fix the problem. I have taken apart the temperature sensor to check if it was scaled up but it all appears OK. So like you I'm going to try and pick people brains on here for a root cause.

I would appreciate any findings you have on the topic.


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## DavecUK

The R58 (Dual Boiler) and the Appartmento (HX) use different methods to control the boiler temperature. In the Rocket R58 it uses a control board and PID algorithm the Appartmento uses a simple pressurestat.

*Michael, your machine does not have the same problem this machine does and if you have only had it a few months I would recommend contacting the Retailer for a warranty repair. It could be a faulty temperature probe, bad probe wiring within the probe or too the control box, or a control box issue. There could be other reasons, but those are the favourites.*

Jeff - The thoughts of Seattle coffee gear are confused at best and not useful to you.

*You say you called Seattle coffee gear, is the machine still under warranty, if it is how old is it and is it used with hard (how hard) water?*

Your machine has a pressurestat, these can give problems especially if used in hard water (this normally takes at least 4 - 6 months to happen, often longer. However you might have had a dodgy one from new if the machine is not very old, or your water is soft. To correct the misinformation given to you, this is the typical sequence of events.

1. Pressure stat sticks (scale blocked, but of sealant whatever) and the membrane doesn't move, microswitch doesn't open. Or microswitch defective on top of pressure stat.

2. Heating element continues to heat, boiler pressure rises

3. At 1.8 - 2.25 bar (whatever safety valve type is used), something called a Safety Valve opens and vents it's guts, normally inside the machine (NOT, the expansion valve, OPV, Vaccuum breaker or anything else)

4. Things are now pretty hot and getting hotter, *if it gets hot enough a resettable limit stat on the top of the boiler trips* (normally they can trip at 135C+, it's not an exact science), these have a little red reset button

5. When you restart the machine nothing happens, because you have to open the top and reset the limit stat.

Variants of this are when the safety valve has a tube on it so it vents to the tank or drip tray, which saves giving the interior of the machine and electronics a steam bath!

Above is what happened, period!



> I called Seattle Coffee Gear, where I purchased it, and they had me take it apart to reset the t-stat. I did so, turned it on again, and could now hear the heating element kicking on to warm the machine. When I inquired about root cause, their thoughts were that the steam pressure release valve wasn't releasing excess steam pressure - perhaps it was partially clogged with a coffee ground particle or two. This could be, as I used to keep my towel on top of the machine to dry.


This is confused and incorrect from SCG, there is no steam pressure release valve that opens to release excess steam pressure as a normal event! There is a safety valve that releases excess pressure, but this is an Abnormal event. In addition nothing can clog with a ground coffee particle, although I would strongly recommend NOT drying your towel on top of the machine.



> I witnessed this valve open while the lid was off, so I know it at least works some of the time. This was a good sign, and regular functionality returned (machine didn't go over 1.3 bar).


You witnessed the vacuum breaker open and then close, which is not related at all to the problem you have and is simply normal operation



> I made a few more drinks and called it a day. I was eager to try it out again this morning - and, unfortunately, the same problem occurred. At least this time it didn't throw the t-stat, as I turned it off immediately and didn't turn it on until steam pressure significantly dropped, and when I did turn it on I again assisted removing some pressure via both the steam and hot water spigot.


Quite common that it will appear to work normally for a bit and then the problem will keep happening. This is because nothing has been fixed and it is typical for this type of problem with the pressurestat.

The answer you give to the question in bold and large typeface will dictate the best cause of action to take.


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## r.bartlett

ok I have the same issue on mine/ Are the presurestats cleanable etc?


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## Hasi

Speaking of vacuum breaker, I needed to replace it on my Cellini Evo this year due to a tiny particle (maybe limescale?) that caused a small leak which led to the seal getting porous. You could hear a soft hissing sound all the time until I fixed it. No change on gauges or operation, though, as far as I remember...


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## DavecUK

> ok I have the same issue on mine/ Are the presurestats cleanable etc?


If it's scale obstructing the path to the pressurestat yes, usually though they need replacing. It's a fairly inexpensive part. I always keep a spare.


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## r.bartlett

DavecUK said:


> If it's scale obstructing the path to the pressurestat yes, usually though they need replacing. It's a fairly inexpensive part. I always keep a spare.


ah I now understand better. I have the R58 which would be controlled by the controller via the ntc probe ..?

can the PID read actual temperatures as it seems a huge waste of potential from the electronics. If I can read the ntc temp i may give me an indication if it's the probe faulty.

Surely there has to be a 'service enigineer' access level?


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## DavecUK

r.bartlett said:


> ah I now understand better. I have the R58 which would be controlled by the controller via the ntc probe ..?


If you have the R58, then you don't have the same problem, because as you correctly say you don't have a pressurestat.


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## r.bartlett

took the side cover off and checked the sensor..the reading isn't anywhere near the spec. ordered new.

Still wonder if there is another level to two to the PID as it's ridiculously basic


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## Talk_Coffee

MichaelSmith81 said:


> So like you I'm going to try and pick people brains on here for a root cause.
> 
> I would appreciate any findings you have on the topic.


No pressurestat as others have correctly stated. First thing for a tech to check would be for a faulty SSR sending continuous current to the steam element.


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