# Basic question - 13 or 27 seconds????



## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

Hi - my brain's become rather muddled and I'm going on my taste buds at present. I've wasted quite a bit of coffee this morning as the doubles espressos I was making were just too dilute.

Equipment - Gaggia Classic with non-ressurised commercial tamper for 2 shots

Coffee - Illy Espresso Dark Roast (using between 16-18g)

Nothing happens for 3-4 seconds then the lovely, concentrated crema pours.... after 13-14 seconds, it starts appearing more watery. If I stop the brewing at 27 seconds, I'm not getting the taste I like - just seems watered down. At 13 seconds, this tastes like "espresso". My gut feeling is that the brewing should stop at 13 seconds.

What's the golden rule please?


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Hi drgekko. 27 seconds, plus or minus, is the time to aim for, but unfortunately you won't approach it using Illy pre-ground since it is too coarse. The Italian 'espresso' ground coffees are intended for use in stove-top moka pots like Bialetti rather than for pump espresso machines. You can get something ground finer which should work better from one of the good bean sellers listed on the site, but it won't be 'dialed-in' for your particular machine, so will be unlikely to give optimum extraction. The real way forward to good espresso is a proper grinder of your own.


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

painty said:


> The real way forward to good espresso is a proper grinder of your own.


All making sense now... thanks! Just waiting for my grinder to arrived - hopefully tomorrow!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

As above pre-ground coffee & espresso is doomed to failure.

Dont get hung up on x seconds. Pete Licata won the WBC this year pulling 20 second shots with a 1.9 brew ratio !


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> As above pre-ground coffee & espresso is doomed to failure.
> 
> Dont get hung up on x seconds. Pete Licata won the WBC this year pulling 20 second shots with a 1.9 brew ratio !


I don't to be honest, I watch the creama and dilution of coffee - as soon as it stops appearing rich, I stop it.


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