# Espresso Vision - Roast Vision



## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

This arrived today, they're not officially available in the UK yet, but luckily my sister bought one for me in the States and sent it over.









































It's an interesting alternative to what's on offer in the market at the moment and a hell of a lot cheaper - coming in at $299, though this is reflected in the finish which is functional, albeit not polished, being a 3D printed affair.

Zak Halvorson - the designer has used a board utilising near infrared to measure reflectance. He has created his own scale - though he is now working with an Agtron device to allow that more widely used scale in the future.

It's early days yet on the testing front, but it's certainly easy to use - only requiring a 1/4 teaspoon sample at a fine grind.

Above are 2 readings taken of 2 roast profiles from the same bean a Ugandan Natural Kisinga.

I'll post more thoughts as I get to spend more time with the unit.

cheers Phil


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## Catlady101 (Sep 26, 2020)

have you ever tried one of these?

https://www.timstar.co.uk/co04570-colorimeter-wpa-co7500-colourwave.html

would making a solution ( required) be ana issue ( if you make the same concentration of each solute to be measured)?

This could all be gibberish as I know nothing - but I really am interested.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Catlady101 said:


> have you ever tried one of these?
> 
> https://www.timstar.co.uk/co04570-colorimeter-wpa-co7500-colourwave.html
> 
> ...


 Sorry Catlady, but the link doesn't work for me. Had a quick look - I'm not sure how I use this. 
I have used a Nix pro colour meter to measure consistency in my roasts and compare against a Roastrite Swatch








This works quite well to gauge consistency, but the beauty of the Roast Vision is the speed of use and the small amount of coffee required to get a reading.


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## Catlady101 (Sep 26, 2020)

Thank you for letting me know, am learning as I go.

The link should have taken you to a simple colorimeter machine about €40, that I have used before for something completely different, in making and comparing types and concentrations of chemicals. It is simple to use, you simply make a specified solution, and compare it to others. It provides a specific reading in comparison to the base solution, often distilled deionised water.

When I saw your post I was thinking about that and wondered if anyone had used one for the same purposes as you, as at least then there would be one piece of coffee kit that I would already know how to use and calibrate/ fix 😸

Not that I plan on roasting my own, but you never know 🤨😄


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Catlady101 said:


> Thank you for letting me know, am learning as I go.
> 
> The link should have taken you to a simple colorimeter machine about €40, that I have used before for something completely different, in making and comparing types and concentrations of chemicals. It is simple to use, you simply make a specified solution, and compare it to others. It provides a specific reading in comparison to the base solution, often distilled deionised water.
> 
> ...


 It sounds like it might be useful with reference tiles so you don't have to compare the beans and tiles with the naked eye, instead using the machine. Would be an improvement I guess and may be a good cheap option.

Hang on, that thing costs £450. https://www.timstar.co.uk/co04570-colorimeter-wpa-co7500-colourwave.html


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## Catlady101 (Sep 26, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> It sounds like it might be useful with reference tiles so you don't have to compare the beans and tiles with the naked eye, instead using the machine. Would be an improvement I guess and may be a good cheap option.
> 
> Hang on, that thing costs £450. https://www.timstar.co.uk/co04570-colorimeter-wpa-co7500-colourwave.html


 I am thinking the one listed for £34 plus VAT - promise


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

If you google that model - they come up at around the £350-500 mark - so think that's most likely an error on the website.

Anyway making up solutions becomes complicated, the beauty of the Espresso Vision - is speed of use and no calibration needed.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Beeroclock said:


> Anyway making up solutions becomes complicated, *the beauty of the Espresso Vision - is speed of use and no calibration needed*.


 +1 👍


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Simples 😀


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## Mpbradford (Jan 28, 2020)

Hi Phil,

Thanks for sharing the data so far. Will be be taking the development % up past 25% to see how it fairs with a darker roast?

cheers Mark


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Hi Mark

I tend to measure my development in time after crack rather than as a %. Most of my roasts are developed between 2mins and 2.45mins after FC.

I have however just bought a Kaffelogic Nano 7 and joined the beta program - with the express intention of doing test roasts at a variety of different roast levels. 
This would have been easier to do on my Cormorant - but that has been sold in part to fund the Nano 7 purchase and the ever growing stock of green I seem to be acquiring.

Zak has also done a match to Agtron









I'll upload some profiles and matching readings later..

cheers Phil


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Ok so this isn't scientific - sorry - I am going to try and photograph this at some point with a colour correct led light. 2 roasts same bean - different profile - latest roast has an extended Maillard and longer development time.









































Here a comparison using my Nix Pro2









Cheers Phil


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## Dan Dyse (Dec 28, 2020)

Hey, is there a list of CMYK values or Pantone numbers for the colors of the RoastRite card or the Roast Vision scale?

We do have a Cube color reader that I could add a list of coffee colors to ...


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Hi Dan - not that I'm aware of. This is one of the reasons - I ditched this method and bought the Roast Vision.


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## Dan Dyse (Dec 28, 2020)

Someone read the values with his meter ... these seem to be quite close but not 100% ... I think this will be sufficient for my device:


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The roast vision is a cheaply hacked device based on some cheap and readily available breakout boards, if you had readings to correlate with swatches you'd be able to make your own.....but they're not so expensive you couldn't just buy one rather than go through a process of soldering, 3d printing a case, and programming your own that may or may not be as accurate. And the colour cards themselves are expensive. Thanks to the group buy I've been able to just buy one rather than pay more money for something that's not as good or spend a lot of time making my own.

@Beeroclock have you tried whole bean readings at all? I know ground readings are superior but it'd be interesting to see the difference between whole and ground if they can both be produce consistently.


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## TommasoCoffee (Apr 12, 2021)

Catlady101 said:


> have you ever tried one of these?
> 
> https://www.timstar.co.uk/co04570-colorimeter-wpa-co7500-colourwave.html
> 
> ...


 hello,

This instrument would not work because is a colorimeter for liquids. 

If you fill the cuvette with powder it would not work.

https://www.kirkhousetrust.org/docs/equipment/colorimeter_fisherbrand_fb68270_manual.pdf


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