# Pimp my 70,s Disco Pavoni time machine



## jimbojohn55

With a new year comes new challenges and ive been itching to do a 70's pavoni for a while - step forward a 1973 europiccola

these were the second generation machine with sight glass, removable shower screen but original group shape. When I say Pimp what I actually mean in this case is a loving restoration - If you see my wife tell her I'm in the cellar for the next month or so. Ive got a couple of commissions to do first but will start assembling parts and stripping down - the disassembly of the group is going to be a challenge without stumping up £40 for the specialist tool but we will see.


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## jimbojohn55

and more below


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## jimbojohn55

that's it - ill stop now 

oh yeah need some James Brown pimping music


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## ashcroc

Looks like a fun project.


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## Stanic

Love those spouts


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## grumpydaddy

If this ends up inspired by the music it will be one Baaad Mutha


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## Nopapercup

Great project! I wouldn't mind tackling one of these so I look forward to seeing how you get on.


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## haz_pro

I love how simple the wiring is.

How does the machine know when to stop heating? I can't see a thermostat.


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## joey24dirt

jimbojohn55 said:


> View attachment 31151
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> View attachment 31154
> 
> 
> that's it - ill stop now
> 
> oh yeah need some James Brown pimping music


I want one to fix  they look like such a fun project.


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## slamm

I have a similar itch so will be watching with interest. Looks like the wirings been sorted and you struck lucky with the earlier portafilter and its fluted spouts. No doubt a pain to keep clean though so perhaps it unscrews like the later ones. Will be interesting to see how you get on with removing the cylinder, have fun!


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## jimbojohn55

haz_pro said:


> I love how simple the wiring is.
> 
> How does the machine know when to stop heating? I can't see a thermostat.


as I understand it the pressure relief valve just kicks in and they keep boiling, will post up some video once its done.


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## jimbojohn55

slamm said:


> I have a similar itch so will be watching with interest. Looks like the wirings been sorted and you struck lucky with the earlier portafilter and its fluted spouts. No doubt a pain to keep clean though so perhaps it unscrews like the later ones. Will be interesting to see how you get on with removing the cylinder, have fun!


The wiring is an interesting point - the inner geek/ historian will put the wiring back to original spec. think it should be red / black/ green with some heat sleaving, but need to research further


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## slamm

haz_pro said:


> How does the machine know when to stop heating? I can't see a thermostat.





jimbojohn55 said:


> as I understand it the pressure relief valve just kicks in and they keep boiling, will post up some video once its done.


It's basically the same as on my later 2 switch model, you switch from 'massimo' to 'minimo' and the smaller of the two heating elements maintains boiler temp while the valve releases excess pressure.


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## slamm

jimbojohn55 said:


> The wiring is an interesting point - the inner geek/ historian will put the wiring back to original spec. think it should be red / black/ green with some heat sleaving, but need to research further


I get your dilema, it looks like they did a reasonable job provided the crimps are tight but I would probably have liked to have done it myself too. On the other hand you're not going to see it.


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## Hasi

love the patina! just needs to be clean and working IMHO... I'd love to have one of these in original condition


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## jimbojohn55

Interesting point, the NT tend to maintain their objects as is, just to prevent deterioration, which I can understand. My view is that in order to make it a usable item it needs the benefit of new paint to protect the base, new gaskets all round and new wiring to make it safe, in all other respects it will look stock and it's not going for a real chrome as there is an honesty in its life of use and ware, but an interesting consideration.


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## jimbojohn55

The past week has been busy with work so only just starting to slowly get to grips with the 70s time machine, most nights have been involved with slowly researching original specification and spares - which to be fair Ive enjoyed, most things about the early pavs is different - double element, different cap, different base, different wiring, different group, different paint, different switch, different rubber base and it doesn't have a thermal cut out either.

With trying to get back to original spec and researching the original wire colours I was a bit disappointed to find that by 73 pavoni had complied with euro wiring regs and gone the brown, blue and green route, with a standard pvc coated wire 1.5mm size - haha - makes it a bit easier I suppose, now to get he right non insulated terminal ends

So started a quick pimp to get me going with the boiler cap - it had a bit of a wobble and after some investigation a nut was found under a rubber plug - so wizzed it apart and polished the Bakalite top with three grades of polish and buffing wheels on the lathe.


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## ashcroc

Looking good so far. With green/red colour blindness being the most common, it's not surprising they got changed. Am a bit surprised it happened so early though as remember growing up around the old red, black, green stuff.

Clearcote may be am option for repainting the base as it'll both preserve the natural patina & protect it.

Looking forward to seeing it finished.


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## coffeechap

I am sure it will look amazing when finished but always great to see the detail in the work


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## jimbojohn55

As part of my research I found a Mr Bond aka the espresso killer using this very model in 1973 in the film "live and let die" -

in particular note the steaming the coffee with milk in by use of the both the safety valve steam arm and the steam arm - must be adapted by M....


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## MildredM

What a superb clip!!!


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## jimbojohn55

Some more pics of the stripdown, using tape to protect components - the recurring experience of these componants is that they are actually built to a finer tolerance, for example the lever has no lateral movement and there is more shaping and machining of the parts - the theory is that pavoni found ways to make it cheaper, following its initial success several other manufacturers started to copy the design, leading to competition on price, hense easier assembly and manufacturing of the later models.

anyway some more dirty pictures


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## jimbojohn55

close fitting lever


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## jimbojohn55

So Saturdays Italian challenge has been to remove the inner grouphead brass liner, - again unique to the early pavs, orphan esporesso sell the correct tool over in Trump town ,,,,,, but I'm less keen on doing anything to support their economy and and make trumpy pants look good- nothing personal orphan espresso - and did I mention its £35 - so why not make it out of wood and have a go - I don't think this tool will stand the test of time but it worked








and I'm glad to get this stage over as its been bothering me as to whether its possible without the proper tool.


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## jimbojohn55

with brass liner in and without


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## jimbojohn55

so the point of all this effort is to check the bore of the piston cylinder- this one had some scoring - mostly caused by a lack of descaling - maybe Bond left water in it when on overseas missions - anyhow a quick bath of citric followed by caffiza and I could see it needed the cylinder honing - to do this its important to not abrade it north to south as this wont help the piston seals hold pressure.

Flap wheel on drill to start followed by a finer abraisive scotchbrite wheel and bingo

in the last pic you can see the three holes that let the water in when the piston is raised- the brass liner lets the group heat quicker by letting steam and water in around the liner then when the piston is raised the water evenly flows over the puck - well in theory


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## Hasi

nice 'undercover' job


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## joey24dirt

That shine is making me sweat


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## hotmetal

I love these threads! Keep it up Jimbo. Looking like a great job. Proper resto too, not just a set of seals and a coat of paint. It's going to be rather desirable when you are done.


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## lake_m

jimbojohn55 said:


> So Saturdays Italian challenge has been to remove the inner grouphead brass liner, - again unique to the early pavs, orphan esporesso sell the correct tool over in Trump town ,,,,,, but I'm less keen on doing anything to support their economy and and make trumpy pants look good- nothing personal orphan espresso - and did I mention its £35 - so why not make it out of wood and have a go - I don't think this tool will stand the test of time but it worked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and I'm glad to get this stage over as its been bothering me as to whether its possible without the proper tool.
> 
> View attachment 31281
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Fantastic innovation! Not only saved £35 plus shipping, but also the long wait......


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## hotmetal

Get on up, ah like a coffee machine!


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## jimbojohn55

hotmetal said:


> Get on up, ah like a coffee machine!


ahem

You got to have a Pavoni sure as your born

Puttin it together right on right on


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## MildredM

I won't ever be able to look at your thread now without that vision in my head!!!!!


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## mmmatron

I've thoroughly enjoyed catching up with this thread @jimbojohn55. Looking forward to the next instalment


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## jimbojohn55

and the cause of the scoring to the cylinder- old flattened seals letting the scaled up piston make contact with the walls.

Interesting point - why does the mk1 piston have a bulge - extra mass? or leave some water around the top of the piston when its fully raised to keep the seals wet ?


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## jimbojohn55

There was some scoring to the piston rod as seen in the first picture below - so popped it on the lathe, a drill would have done, then smoothed it over with 600g wetand dry followed by 1200grit, then buffed - my excuse is that if the piston is smooth it wont attract scale......and anyway SHINY


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## slamm

From a crusty ugly thing to a better than new thing, and so very shiny.. lovely job Jimbo, enjoying this.


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## hotmetal

Same here. I wish I had the time, tools and skills to restore stuff, especially cool stuff like old motorbikes and lever machines. Even as a spectator (voyeur?) it's satisfying to watch some manky old bit of 'cash in the attic' or barn find slowly come back to (or exceed) its former glory! It's also soul food: the antithesis to the horrible automated throwaway society we've become, where work is repetitive, workers are denied the freedom to act outside the set of instructions, and cannot influence the quality of the end product. The steely-eyed craftsman might be a bit of a romantic idea, but seeing people like yourself bringing neglected but inherently good kit back to life where they can once more be cherished instead of ending up in landfill definitely gives out a feelgood factor.


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## jimbojohn55

Cheers @hotmetal - eloquently put, the non reparability of things and the disposable culture are big issues - often you just cant get the part to fix something so I like many end up buying again, however the desire is always to fix it if possible. For me the quality of construction and materials involved / reparability are important considerations when buying new or second-hand.

The interesting thing with the pav is that they found ways to make them cheaper once the bean counters got involved, yet they did a great job of maintaining functionality, pressed steel bases replaced cast alloy, the close fitting lever fork casting changed to a bent steel part (always bothered me why there was so much lateral movement in my 99 pav) and the element switched from twin to single with time. These early machines were designed to be turned on, quickly get up to temp then switch off again, they don't have a pressurestat or thermal fuse or even an off switch, but they were designed for a specific and quick purpose, it will be interesting to do a side by side comparison once its finished.

I should apologise for some of my over detailed threads showing process, but I like to think that by showing the process it makes second hand quality equipment accessible on a budget.

On a wider note I applaud the manufacturers like londinium for the use of quality materials and parts, they will run on indefinitely and repay the initial high price several times over.


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## haz_pro

Awesome work.

With restoring the inside of the brew head, is there a risk that the seal will not be thick enough to create a good seal? Or was the amount removed too little to make a difference.


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## jimbojohn55

haz_pro said:


> Awesome work.
> 
> With restoring the inside of the brew head, is there a risk that the seal will not be thick enough to create a good seal? Or was the amount removed too little to make a difference.


Hi Haz -a good point- based on fitting new seals to pavs in the past they really take some effort to get them back in the cylinder - in refinishing the parts my aim is to just refinish the parts to remove scoring of the surface, if you could see them in real life you would just be able to see where the scoring was. If there is an issue with fit because of long term ware or my refinishing I can shim behind the seals by adding some brass in the piston grooves to make the seals sit out a fraction, I would be very surprised if it was an issue but I will test it up to a 15bar pull once back together.


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## hotmetal

Don't apologise for the level of detail! We're loving it - and maybe the fact that there is such detail will encourage someone else to rescue one.


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## Hasi

already thinking about it







...although, when?! so many projects...

edit: maybe I should have explained straight away that I'm into vintage cars for the same reason. Modern throwaway cars and their computer diagnostics frenzy I cannot fall in love with. No way an owner is enabled to fix things on their own.

For instance, I have a 1983 Rover SD1 Vanden Plas as a daily driver. And as it's the case especially with British cars of the dark ages (Lucas electrics are somewhat hilarious...), there's many bits and pieces that could use improvement. Although mine is a very decent build with most things working as they are supposed to, luckily!

Sorry to go off-topic that much... looking very much forward to seeing your next images!!


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## jimbojohn55

Hasi said:


> already thinking about it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...although, when?! so many projects...
> 
> edit: maybe I should have explained straight away that I'm into vintage cars for the same reason. Modern throwaway cars and their computer diagnostics frenzy I cannot fall in love with. No way an owner is enabled to fix things on their own.
> 
> For instance, I have a 1983 Rover SD1 Vanden Plas as a daily driver. And as it's the case especially with British cars of the dark ages (Lucas electrics are somewhat hilarious...), there's many bits and pieces that could use improvement. Although mine is a very decent build with most things working as they are supposed to, luckily!
> 
> Sorry to go off-topic that much... looking very much forward to seeing your next images!!


there is a reason Joe Lucas had the nickname - the prince of darkness - and we need a phot of your SD1


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## hotmetal

Prince of Darkness! How very apt!


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## Hasi

jimbojohn55 said:


> there is a reason Joe Lucas had the nickname - the prince of darkness - and we need a phot of your SD1


haha yea, I was told when I bought it... but I didn't care. Here's the image: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?42437-What-vintage-car-do-you-drive


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## jimbojohn55

Ive ordered a number of parts today plus full sets of seals, although I would like to keep it original a few bits have been mangled beyond repair - steam knob, steam valve shaft etc, Ive been in contact with Fransesco one of the most knowledgeable individuals about on the spec of these machines, he was able to confirm some details, such as paint, wiring and type of material the drip tray was made from, - turns out aluminium was only used upto 1970 so a later SS one it is

I do recommend you visit his site he has a wealth of information about all types of Italian lever machines - a staggering quantity in his own collection

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_eng.htm

top bloke


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## Jacko112

Echo the above, he was a great help when I was rebuilding my Zacconi


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## jimbojohn55

I should have added the direct link to Fransesco,s collection of levers theres 2 pages of them and 95% I've never heard of

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/news_eng.htm - page 1


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## MildredM

What a treasure-trove of a website


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## Hasi

jimbojohn55 said:


> I should have added the direct link to Fransesco,s collection of levers theres 2 pages of them and 95% I've never heard of
> 
> http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/news_eng.htm - page 1


speechless...


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## jimbojohn55

Enjoying this description and sales literature from 75-76 same group (published on orphan espresso) again a great source of info and parts

http://www.orphanespresso.com/La-Pavoni-Europiccola-Pro-Espresso-Machine-Instruction-Manual_ep_585-1.html


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## slamm

Interesting they say the boiler is made of bronze, I thought it was brass or maybe the early ones were. Also words like coffee plunger instead of tamper, filter for basket, and leaving it to "whistle" for 60s instead of flushing the group, the terminology and instructions seem a bit alien now.


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## jimbojohn55

slamm said:


> Interesting they say the boiler is made of bronze, I thought it was brass or maybe the early ones were. Also words like coffee plunger instead of tamper, filter for basket, and leaving it to "whistle" for 60s instead of flushing the group, the terminology and instructions seem a bit alien now.


Hmmm I spotted that as well - as Bronze is an alloy of copper and 11% tin, its possible but I'm not sure why you would use bronze unless its more corrosion resistant?, certainly its more expensive than copper as a material - anyone know?


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## jimbojohn55

steam knob chip pimp - the bakerlite has a chip on the flat end and it would get annoying seeing it and thinking I should have fixed that - so I did, firstly sanding off just 1mm removed the chip, then bevel the edge with a small file, then buff up.

People often say that the roll pin that holds these the steam knob onto the shaft is a nightmare to remove, well dig through your magnetic screwdriver torx bits that you got as a crapy xmas present choose the right size and tap it into the hole - voila!


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## jimbojohn55

The other Bakelite parts also needed a tickle up, namely the lever and portafilter handles. the edge of the handle has some nasty mould flashing marks so I sanded it back slightly on the lathe then polished again - 240g -600g 1200g then 2 grades of buffing compound medium and fine.


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## jimbojohn55

and the same for the portafilter handle


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## MildredM

Fantastic!

I wish you could have a flashing light on your thread! When I see an update I get so excited to see what you've done (and I almost missed that last one)!


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## Hasi

See, that's only possible with those old fashioned materials... try this with today's injection moulded thermoplastics!

Terrific example and it's only getting better each time we drop by for your update


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## jimbojohn55

MildredM said:


> Fantastic!
> 
> I wish you could have a flashing light on your thread! When I see an update I get so excited to see what you've done (and I almost missed that last one)!


Try tapatalk app on your phone - mind you it never shuts up! - I'm thinking of lighting a beacon on the roof each time I post, having said that we live in a row of four houses so the neighbours might have issue.


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## jimbojohn55

Hasi said:


> See, that's only possible with those old fashioned materials... try this with today's injection moulded thermoplastics!
> 
> Terrific example and it's only getting better each time we drop by for your update


Cheers Hasi - You can polish softer injection moulded plastic but you have to use very light pressure and keep moving the piece around so no heat builds up, you also need plastic polishing compounds - like the ones im using


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## Hasi

jimbojohn55 said:


> Cheers Hasi - You can polish softer injection moulded plastic but you have to use very light pressure and keep moving the piece around so no heat builds up, you also need plastic polishing compounds - like the ones im using


Fair point, although very difficult and limited - polishing yes, but I wouldn't happily sand away scratches in ABS parts for instance.

With Bakelite, you can even pulverise shattered pieces and mix with smaller amounts of 2C adhesive to re-model what's missing.

After all, back in the days they would aim for the right values in far more products than nowadays. Imagine how difficult it will be in a few decades to come for enthusiasts willing to fix regular 21st century stuff!


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## jimbojohn55

sooo as its Saturday night whats more fun than than staying in with some beer, cafiza and buffing machine- not in that order of course, the last picture shows the generous depth of the mk1 portafilter compared to the standard pre millennium- you can get a BIG basket in the early one!

Damn forgot the beacon...

ewww


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## jimbojohn55

Beacon Lit .... ahem.... One of the delights of these early machines is the quality of the high/low switches, they open and close with a positive "SNAP" with a spring loaded roller mechanism, not bad after 45years. - it just required a surface clean up and a spot of oil on the moving parts.


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## jimbojohn55

Krypton factor 70s pav element removal- there is nothing straightforward about these machines - special tool to remove the piston liner and then there is the element that unlike the later model consists of a thick brass cap with a thread, so the whole element is screwed on rather than bolted as with the later models,

it has 4 shallow indents around it - you can use a three leg oil wrench but the legs wont sit in the indents - so had a go with a giant hose clip and a couple of bolts - and the beacon was lit etc - however I threw water on it as I confirmed my resistance tests of the small 200w inner element was blown - FECK - you cant buy them!

So a search of the forums and websites give three options

1 send it to Gabor in Hungary who will replace them both - brazed on - original spec for about £65

2 Drill out and fit bolt on elements- but you cant get the 200w inner one only the outer 800w

3 Fit the later bolt on base twin element - requires the later brass seating ring adapter plus element £130 , and it wont look right

so I'm waiting for word back from Gabor!

Oh yes the final krypton test will be creating another wooden tool on the lathe to remove the boiler ring!


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## grumpydaddy

Here is a search for you.... bespoke heating element

I know this is a long shot but I get oddball elements made for sinks etc so maybe.....


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## Hasi

jimbojohn55 said:


> Krypton factor 70s pav element removal- there is nothing straightforward about these machines - special tool to remove the piston liner and then there is the element that unlike the later model consists of a thick brass cap with a thread, so the whole element is screwed on rather than bolted as with the later models,
> 
> it has 4 shallow indents around it - you can use a three leg oil wrench but the legs wont sit in the indents - so had a go with a giant hose clip and a couple of bolts - and the beacon was lit etc - however I threw water on it as I confirmed my resistance tests of the small 200w inner element was blown - FECK - you cant buy them!


Oh noes...









(for future reference) who is Gabor?


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## jimbojohn55

Hasi said:


> Oh noes...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (for future reference) who is Gabor?


he does elements for Fransesco http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/La_Pavoni/Faidate/riparazione_resistenza_eng.htm

hes done some for people in the US coffee forums as well - you can get them done over here as well , which I might do - but I'm trying Hungary first !


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## jimbojohn55

grumpydaddy said:


> Here is a search for you.... bespoke heating element
> 
> I know this is a long shot but I get oddball elements made for sinks etc so maybe.....


Cheers Ive sent an enquiry to TP . Fay Ltd in Kirkby - their not far away about 30min


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## El carajillo

How is the boiler ring attached / held ?


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## jimbojohn55

El carajillo said:


> How is the boiler ring attached / held ?


Its just screwed on with a couple of holes for lugs at 180 deg- I could loosen it with a pin punch and a hammer, but it wont take long to turn a wooden tool - same as the one for removing the grouphead liner but bigger, I will need it to tighten it properly when I'm reassembling.


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## jimbojohn55

Boiler ring removal - well there is nothing on till 8 when tom Kerridge might be worth watching, not that the local Morrison's will carry all those ingredients at the same time,,,, so had a go at removing the boiler ring with welllll basically a bit of hardwood with two drills of the right size drilled into them to the right depth.

and with a bit of penetrating oil it worked! - the supprise was finding that the gaskets were the carbon type you find on the later machines and the one attached to the base (by glue) was recessed slightly.


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## El carajillo

Are they carbon ? or are they "bellite" Used to buy it in sheets to make gaskets, in various thicknesses.

Is that a bit of Iroko ?


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## jimbojohn55

El carajillo said:


> Are they carbon ? or are they "bellite" Used to buy it in sheets to make gaskets, in various thicknesses.
> 
> Is that a bit of Iroko ?


not come across it- odd stuff mostly graphite - easy to get hold of graphite gasket in various thickness, ive got a gasket and seal set coming from Fransisco, so will see what he supplies. and yes Iroko, I think


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## jimbojohn55

Mk 1 Pav element update, having tried three companies in the UK to repair the element, no joy 1 said no 2 others didn't reply - British industry -hmm

anyway I will take up Gabors offer to get it repaired over in Hungary - he waits till he has a batch then takes them to the factory every 2 months, then there is a 5 week turnaround and postage back for 50 Euros - £43 plus postage, its a good price for a double element but the time scale ! !

getting it repaired properly should give it another 40years of life and with the rewire and seals it should roll on indefinitely.

so here is a picture of now and what it will look like when it comes back


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## jimbojohn55

preparing to send the element to Gabor in Hungary for repair requires that the element is cut off the base, in doing so its clear to see where the element has failed

with a dark insulator from the water ingress,.


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## jimbojohn55

Stripping down the sight glass - undo the two compression nuts wrapped in tape to protect the chrome, the glass is not worth saving as its already cracked so broke it out, then removed the brass washer and the rubber compression washer, then a bath in cafiza.


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## Obnic

This is my current favourite thread.


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## 9719

^^^^^ +1 to the above, pimping at its finest, go jj55


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## MildredM

^^^^^ Yes! I agree


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## jimbojohn55

Your very kind - if only there was some kind of pay-per-view









   hello..............hello.....................


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## jimbojohn55

clean and buff of the boiler chrome, and sight glass protector - there is only so much light buffing you can do with chrome before you damage it, having said that the main improvement is the bath in cafiza which got rid of a lot of muck .

before and after


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## MildredM

That was worthy of a drum roll, at the very least!


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## Nopapercup

I agree with the above, watching the transformation you're doing on this @jimbojohn55 is amazing.

My pavoni is in France and I'm back in London with major withdrawals. The Aergrind and Aeropress just isn't doing it for me.

I have my fathers pavoni with me which is in a hell of a state and not currently working so I'm debating doing it up, just buying another one second hand or both.


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## jimbojohn55

Nopapercup said:


> I agree with the above, watching the transformation you're doing on this @jimbojohn55 is amazing.
> 
> My pavoni is in France and I'm back in London with major withdrawals. The Aergrind and Aeropress just isn't doing it for me.
> 
> I have my fathers pavoni with me which is in a hell of a state and not currently working so I'm debating doing it up, just buying another one second hand or both.


The newer ones are a lot easier to work on and if its just a question of a service then a couple of piston seals and some food safe silicon grease should sort it.....but its always tempting to do a bit more ..... my theory is that you don't really know a machine till you have had it in bits


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## 9719

'my theory is that you don't really know a machine till you have had it in bits '

And buffed it 'loads & loads & loads & loads'


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## Nopapercup

jimbojohn55 said:


> The newer ones are a lot easier to work on and if its just a question of a service then a couple of piston seals and some food safe silicon grease should sort it.....but its always tempting to do a bit more ..... my theory is that you don't really know a machine till you have had it in bits


I think it's a late 80's early 90's model. He bought a new element for it and for some reason it didn't/doesn't fit properly, water leaked and rusted the underneath of the base. I need to sort that out, probably the electrics and give the whole thing a really good clean.


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## jimbojohn55

haha - I think the buffing is a bit self indulgent, but very very satisfying - why would anyone go out for a meal or a pint on a Friday night when they could stay in and buff random bits of metal,,,,,,oh yeah, they have a life


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## jimbojohn55

Nopapercup said:


> I think it's a late 80's early 90's model. He bought a new element for it and for some reason it didn't/doesn't fit properly, water leaked and rusted the underneath of the base. I need to sort that out, probably the electrics and give the whole thing a really good clean.


I bet it had the same problem my pre millennium pav had - the chrome on the bottom edge of the boiler had corroded a bit, so the new seal would not make good contact, I had to flatten the bottom edge with a bit of wet and dry on a flat piece of wood to get the face level. I think there is a link somewhere - here are the pics anyway


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## Nopapercup

jimbojohn55 said:


> I bet it had the same problem my pre millennium pav had - the chrome on the bottom edge of the boiler had corroded a bit, so the new seal would not make good contact, I had to flatten the bottom edge with a bit of wet and dry on a flat piece of wood to get the face level. I think there is a link somewhere - here are the pics anyway


That must be it. Made no sense to me that it didn't fit as I bought the element for him from Ferrari's and I can't imagine they made multiple sizes. Thanks, when I get five minutes I'll pull it apart.


----------



## jimbojohn55

so for my 2000th post I hoped to have a finished pav, the seals are on the way from Italy but the boiler element is probably passing it on its way to gabor in Hungary! in the meantime ive been working on the pav badge - these are an alloy with an anodised/ nickel finish - either way it needed a refresh as it was badly scratched through the finishes - in the end some chrome enamel paint spray has brought it upto scratch - this will take a day or so to dry before getting fiddly with some red and a very fine brush.


----------



## joey24dirt

Love this thread, and the others you do. Excellent work and happy 2000th post! ?


----------



## jimbojohn55

Pav 70s flex grommet - (warning over detailed post about grommets) like most things the little details and electrical parts on these machines have been superseded by European regulation, these days you would have to have the flex clamped as it entered the machine, Pav in the 70,s used the time honoured tradition of putting a knot in the flex and a rubber grommet, which I will stick with, having said that the original grommet was knackered and starting to split, not a standard size or material these days but oddly for £2.50 toolstation sell a multipack of natural rubber grommets which includes the old size !


----------



## hotmetal

I actually like the badge just polished/unpainted - though I appreciate you're going for an original condition refurb. Keep up the good work!


----------



## grumpydaddy

You mentioned the underside and connections of the mains cable etc. not looking "right"

I wonder, would this help?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electrical-Wire-Fiberglass-Insulating-Sleeve-3mm-Dia-1M-Long/282781957384?epid=21011935006&hash=item41d71e3d08:g:EmYAAOSwCJxaPNu1

not the right size probably but.......

You could dip it in tea for a while to get the look


----------



## jimbojohn55

Cheers @grumpydaddy - what ive found out is that the flex and wiring colours changed a few times within a couple of years - by 1973 they had started to use the new euro standard colours Brown - L, Blue -N plus Green/Yellow E, 1.5mm multicore to the first terminals, the loop to the switch was using solid core Brown and Blue - the idea was that the solid core would stay fixed in position once bent to shape and not hang down to touch the base or sit in any water in the event of a leek. The other thing they did was use uninsulated terminal ring ends on the end of the flex cable with the solid core ends bent into rings.

They were using heat shield 5mm dia on just the flex ends with nothing on the solid core to the switch - as a set up would it meet todays wiring standards - nope but is it safe well .... yes by 1970s appliance standards.

Its a fine line between originality and safety, for example the max /min switch has no off position its also not IP rated to prevent water ingress externally or internally, but to swop it for one that looked a bit similar and was IP rated would be going too far and loose an essential part of the machines design and its distinctive look. The other aspect is that the original cable that was used was an early PVC less flexible and harder (possibly with different heat resistance to the modern softer pvc today).

So the way forward for me is -

Use 1.5mm modern PVC flex (with 5mm heat shield) to the first heating terminals

Use 1.5mm Modern solid core for the switch loop (add heat shield to these-) - I cant take the risk that the different modern softer PVC is more vulnerable to the heat.

Use new non insulated terminal ends for the flex cable (they will have heat shield covering them anyway)

Ensure that any future owner would know that the roller switches on these are works of art that feel great in operation but in the event of a flood are vulnerable to water ingress however as the base is connected to earth a modern RCD fuse box would trip and keep you safe - if you still have an old type fuse box, get the sparks in or use this with a plug in circuit breaker.

Is this a bit over the top.... yes and no its more to do with prevention than anything else- will I be worried in its daily use - no, its manufactures of tumble driers you have to worry about









and did I mention that the rubber base of these machines is glued on so not easily removable


----------



## craigsalisbury

jimbojohn55 said:


> haha - I think the buffing is a bit self indulgent, but very very satisfying - why would anyone go out for a meal or a pint on a Friday night when they could stay in and buff random bits of metal,,,,,,oh yeah, they have a life


Too much buffing and you will go blind!


----------



## jimbojohn55

after much trial and error I've settled for the original chrome on the badge but repainted the background, the spray chrome was too soft even after a few days - so until I save up for a nickel plating kit this will do. In the mean time the base is with the powder coaters in Preston - his observation (having great experience of Italian motorbike parts) is that Italian engineering and build quality is fantastic but there painting and finishing skills are S**T, for example his view of the pav base was that it needs a base primer powder coat and then the hammered powder coat to seal it properly, and then he claims you could leave water in the drip tray forever - well maybe not forever but it wont ever peel! - fingers crossed the colour matches


----------



## rich987

Great work! So nice to see a quality machine being resurrected in this throw away society.


----------



## AndyDClements

Loving this thread, I may even get a few photos on a similar thread when I do mine, but doubt I will as I doubt I have the patience you have for photographing the progress, describing it etc. So, I'll just have to be content to read your thread.


----------



## jimbojohn55

One of the issues with the electrics and the cable was the use of numpty replacement insulated crimp ends, not very 70,s or disco. so I sourced some of the correct colour, size and non insulated ring terminals on ebay. The issue is with these earlier terminal ends is that they don't just squish like the new ones as they have two parts one that holds the cable including insulator and one that folds over and into the copper cores. The downside is that you have to buy the correct crimpers that have a complex set of shaped jaws to perform this double crimp, - the chance to buy a specialist tool, who could resist

The numpty ones - followed by the correct ones


----------



## jimbojohn55

AndyDClements said:


> Loving this thread, I may even get a few photos on a similar thread when I do mine, but doubt I will as I doubt I have the patience you have for photographing the progress, describing it etc. So, I'll just have to be content to read your thread.


I insist you do a thread - the more people understand how to do these things the less landfill









just to add - all the pictrures are on my android phone which uploads to google photos automatically - I then open and save them to a folder on my windows desktop and upload them to the forum from there.


----------



## jimbojohn55

Back from the powder coaters and oh-dear - they had three goes at matching the finish and hoped I would be happy with a textured grey - not really, I appreciate they had a go and if I wasn't trying to keep it original then I would settle for the finish they provided, but I can get closer so I will.

What they have done is provided a great base coat that will last so a 50% win. these leaves me turning back to hammerite type paint - I'm suspicious that the original finish may have been a type of hammerite as it was pretty inconsistent as the original coat. first pic is the original finish then the powder coat, then a sample ive just done tonight with two coats, which I think matches alot closer so I have a way forward. It is possible to paint over powder coat if you key the surface well. It takes a week or so to fully cure hammered paint but I'm still waiting on the seals from Italy so no rush.


----------



## Missy

Yeah they've not even got close there have they!


----------



## jimbojohn55

Missy said:


> Yeah they've not even got close there have they!


Hi Missey, yep a mile off its textured and not green or purple but that's as close as they came, mind you they switchjed to this after trying something else twice, so its my guess it was a technical problem, who knows. Fransesco believes that the original was powder coat but technically a hammered finish in a powder coat is actually a wet application especialy on alloy?? anyway I'm getting the colour and texture I need with conventional brush/spray hammered paint - it just takes a long time to fully cure and toughen up, the powder coat underneath will be a good solid bullet proof primer. oh well back to the paint fumes


----------



## 9719

'oh well back to the paint fumes'... will possibly be a pleasant interlude from all that 'buffing' ?


----------



## jimbojohn55

keyed the surface of the powder coat with 100grit then 4 coats of spray hammerite at 30 minute intervals and it looks like were back on track


----------



## Missy

Ah that looks more like it... I mean it's hideous, but it's original hideousness... So it's acceptable...

Did you not consider pink?


----------



## AndyDClements

Your problem intrigued me (the slippage when hot), apparently when fully cured Hammerite hammered finish is fine at up to 80deg C. The outside of the base cannot be anywhere near that hot or it would be risk of skin burns when touching, so it must just have been a problem of it not having cured fully before.

18. TEMPERATURE RESISTANCELimits: Minus 20ºC (-4ºF) to 150ºC (300ºF) maximum intermittent when fully cured. Continuous 80ºC(180ºF) when fully cured.Note: Colours may fade after prolonged exposure at temperatures exceeding 50ºC (120ºF).

https://pinmarsupply.com/media/?wpdmdl=14965&ind=0


----------



## jimbojohn55

Missy said:


> Ah that looks more like it... I mean it's hideous, but it's original hideousness... So it's acceptable...
> 
> Did you not consider pink?


I asked , but they don't sell hammerite in Pink and Pavoni wont return my emails!


----------



## jimbojohn55

AndyDClements said:


> Your problem intrigued me (the slippage when hot), apparently when fully cured Hammerite hammered finish is fine at up to 80deg C. The outside of the base cannot be anywhere near that hot or it would be risk of skin burns when touching, so it must just have been a problem of it not having cured fully before.
> 
> 18. TEMPERATURE RESISTANCELimits: Minus 20ºC (-4ºF) to 150ºC (300ºF) maximum intermittent when fully cured. Continuous 80ºC(180ºF) when fully cured.Note: Colours may fade after prolonged exposure at temperatures exceeding 50ºC (120ºF).
> 
> https://pinmarsupply.com/media/?wpdmdl=14965&ind=0


Good point - in theory the whole base acts as a heatsink, but the boiler itself is insulated from the base with two gaskets, will have to see what happens, when ive repainted a pav base before with car paints its not been a problem, so fingers crossed.


----------



## AndyDClements

And I'm off to Halfords tomorrow to see whether Rover Russet brown is a close match for mine.


----------



## jimbojohn55

Quick base update - having sprayed it Friday I managed to distract myself for 2 days by driving up to Scotland for my Grandsons first Birthday, he promptly fell asleep on me before I could get my coat off - Couldn't resist a proud granddad pic

Anyway having battled through the rain for 5hrs there and the snow for 5hrs coming back, I was rewarded with a nice satin finish on the base that matches the original as it starts to fully cure - takes about 2 weeks apparently.


----------



## MildredM

Awwwwww


----------



## Missy




----------



## AndyDClements

I'm wondering which you're more proud of. I think it's a close run thing given the personal effort put in to the Europiccola.


----------



## mmmatron

Aww


----------



## jimbojohn55

AndyDClements said:


> I'm wondering which you're more proud of. I think it's a close run thing given the personal effort put in to the Europiccola.


His names Rory, but I call him my Europiccola - that way no one can tell


----------



## Hasi

jimbojohn55 said:


> His names Rory, but I call him my Europiccola - that way no one can tell


Smart!

Rory will likely have no issues keeping up with the LaPavoni... love and time and efforts put in, hours of joy (and trouble), and - oh well - not to forget money







but the little cutie will also give back lots of love, share cookies and secrets with his granda and ultimately may become a coffee enthusiast, as well. Anyhow: congrats to this bundle of awesome! Undertake the 5hr hassle as often as you can, they grow oh so fast.


----------



## joey24dirt

A very proud grandad indeed. Can't beat sleepy cuddles. Wishing Rory a very happy 1st birthday.


----------



## jimbojohn55

after a bit of a standstill two great things happened today - firstly it was confirmed that the early bases were in fact painted with Hammerite - might be a different formula but still it confirms I'm on the right track, and then the seals arrived from @Francesco - and I couldn't have asked for more, in particular the boiler to base seals are the same thickness as the originals and not the thinner more modern ones, this prevents the boiler contacting the paint on the base directly.

If you need original and matching seals then @Francesco is the way to go - some of the seals are just not available anywhere else!

The other thing ive done it key the inside of the base powdercoat and then put a quick coat of heat resistant primmer to match the original grey finish, just need to date stamp it 10 NOV 1973 in blue


----------



## Hasi

Great job!! Looking so much forward to every update... this one's gonna rock big time when you're finished!

Only, be aware that the forum's dying for an invite to the machine warming party


----------



## rubyflewtoo

This has been such a lovely thread to trawl through. I had an 80s La Pavoni once, but sold it off because I wasn't really drinking coffe at the time. So wish I had kept it now.

Keep posting!


----------



## jimbojohn55

Quick update - still waiting for the Hammerite to fully cure - Its getting better, but not100% yet - in fact its been appearing in the kitchen oven to take advantage of the cooling oven much to the surprise of my wife and disappointment of the dog.

I thought it might be useful to someone who going down this path of knowing the size of the odd seals that you cant get from the pav spares sellers - actually the best bet is to get in touch with Francesco but if not these are the three odd ones

Cylinder liner seal 56mm outer 50mm inner x 1.5mm thick

Element seal 82mm 68mm x 2mm

Chrome hat seal 40mm 25mm x3mm


----------



## MildredM

I swear I heard the sound of trumpets when I saw you'd updated your thread!

Ohhhh that knob! Is that Bakerlite (I could check back as I think you mentioned it earlier on).


----------



## jimbojohn55

I know, I'm desperate to get it back together and try it out, ive even got a laser temp gauge on the way so I can do a side by side comparison, just for the shiggles

And yes its Bakerlite - come to think of it they still use Bakerlite on the new ones


----------



## grumpydaddy

Pssst.... No "r" ....Bakelite


----------



## jimbojohn55

grumpydaddy said:


> Pssst.... No "r" ....Bakelite


I added it in to see if anyone was awake - honest ... I'm not r,sed


----------



## jimbojohn55

comment light picture heavy - hear we go - stamper to put back the date on the base as with the original

Liquid PTFE -to help seal all the joints


----------



## jimbojohn55




----------



## jimbojohn55

The grouphead seal comes with 2 optional spacers from Francesco - I used both spacers to get the portafilter to lock in the right position


----------



## MildredM

Fantastic!

How didn't I know about liquid PTFE?!


----------



## jimbojohn55

On with the new base gaskets and tighten down the base ring- replace the knackered tin hat gasket and the steam spindle seal


----------



## joey24dirt

Stunning work! Can't wait for the finale!


----------



## ashcroc

joey24dirt said:


> Stunning work! Can't wait for the finale!


I'm hoping it'll be a video recreation of the 'bond maneuver' for making a cappuccino.


----------



## jimbojohn55

and putting the sight glass back in order and gently tightening down the sight glass nuts to squash and seal in place the sight glass

Then using secret ptfe liquid (don't tell mildred-shhh) popped the top of the cap back on


----------



## jimbojohn55

Popped the element back - (again using secret PTFE) and then a quick check for leaks - next the wiring- there may be a pause for an hour and some swearing if it doesn't power up


----------



## jimbojohn55

ashcroc said:


> I'm hoping it'll be a video recreation of the 'bond maneuver' for making a cappuccino.


That may take some time to recreate, although ive often been mistaken for Roger Moore ......or is is that Roger Melly


----------



## MildredM

Pausing for swearing - we need photos! It all looks to be going well so far









I swear, one of the first words I learned was polytetrafluoroethylene


----------



## joey24dirt

I'm going to start asking for that next time I buy some. See how baffled I can make the people selling it


----------



## jimbojohn55

the limited number of forum VIP,s who have seen my pimping bunker will know - its actually a cellar under the house and void of heat sources, as the cold weather moves in the temperature quickly drops and with my blue fingers I just managed to get the wiring in but not the 1970,s weird circlips on the lever pins which defeated me so I went to the off licence instead, so no big reveal yet, although the beer is reducing my frustration at not finishing it tonight,,booooo

The wiring is an interesting 70,s throwback to more casual safety standards but adequate in my view, I have beefed up the gauge of the flex from 1.0mm to 1.5 in order that if the element ever goes and is subbed with a later twin element or a single 1000w one it will be upto the job - ive also used the same comedy oversize heat shield as the original - and added a bit for the earth wire, because its ...well kinda important

The wire between the switch and the elements is interestingly solid core as with the original again ive beefed it up to 1.5mm

its an odd but ok solution as it can be bent to avoid anything hot, there is a logic to it.


----------



## coffeechap

Those old circling are a bit of a bugger


----------



## MildredM

jimbojohn55 said:


> Then using secret ptfe liquid (don't tell mildred-shhh)


Jimbo, that liquid PTFE, what does it feel like? Does it just slip through your fingers


----------



## coffeechap

jimbojohn55 said:


> the limited number of forum VIP,s who have seen my pimping bunker will know - its actually a cellar under the house and void of heat sources, as the cold weather moves in the temperature quickly drops and with my blue fingers I just managed to get the wiring in but not the 1970,s weird circlips on the lever pins which defeated me so I went to the off licence instead, so no big reveal yet, although the beer is reducing my frustration at not finishing it tonight,,booooo
> 
> The wiring is an interesting 70,s throwback to more casual safety standards but adequate in my view, I have beefed up the gauge of the flex from 1.0mm to 1.5 in order that if the element ever goes and is subbed with a later twin element or a single 1000w one it will be upto the job - ive also used the same comedy oversize heat shield as the original - and added a bit for the earth wire, because its ...well kinda important
> 
> The wire between the switch and the elements is interestingly solid core as with the original again ive beefed it up to 1.5mm
> 
> its an odd but ok solution as it can be bent to avoid anything hot, there is a logic to it.
> 
> View attachment 32356


I love the simplicity of the wiring on the really early ones


----------



## jimbojohn55

MildredM said:


> Jimbo, that liquid PTFE, what does it feel like? Does it just slip through your fingers


to be honest, it sticks to you fingers and is a pain to wash off, I'm thinking of making my own curling lane in the hall but using pavs instead on stones


----------



## jimbojohn55

I was quite surprised how nervous this made me - but it works - heats up on the maximo then switch to minimo and it just steams through the relief valve gently, still need to run it a couple of times to clear out any gunk and bits but it looks to my eyes the business.


----------



## jimbojohn55

And the glamour shots


----------



## rob177palmer

Can't believe how good that looks. There were times when it looked like it was in a worrying number of pieces!!


----------



## mmmatron

Fantastic!


----------



## El carajillo

Jimbo, I think you have done an absolutely superb job on that machine and it is a great credit to your perseverance and skills.







:good:


----------



## coffeechap

Better than when it left the factory 45 years ago


----------



## AndyDClements

Looks like it's brand new. Fantastic job.


----------



## grumpydaddy

So good it looks like it needs its own instrument case.

Excellence of workmanship and attention to detail truly above and beyond.

I think you should send the series of pics to Francesco. I feel he would appreciate this


----------



## joey24dirt

So good. Going to watch those videos a few more times I think.


----------



## MildredM

It really does look stunning and as cc says, it is better than new! It oozes character (and I honestly think it looks happy to have been brought back to life)


----------



## coffeechap

grumpydaddy said:


> So good it looks like it needs its own instrument case.
> 
> Excellence of workmanship and attention to detail truly above and beyond.
> 
> I think you should send the series of pics to Francesco. I feel he would appreciate this


What do you mean send them to Francesco, from now on jimbojohn will be known as Francis ( the English pavoni master)


----------



## coffeechap

Or perhaps his tag line is PP (pavoni perfectionist)


----------



## jimbojohn55

Iwill go with "Jim the buffer" - or actually don't use that - to be honest @Francesco , knowledge on these machines is truly epic, he doesn't use hammerite on his as its a PITA waiting for it to dry, there is a fine balance between originality and practical modern finishes-


----------



## coffeechap

"Buffer the lever slayer"


----------



## coffeechap

Think we need to keep a photo on each page


----------



## Missy

This is absolutely stunning!!


----------



## Nopapercup

Looks amazing! Congratulations and nice to see an old Pavoni brought back to life and as others said undoubtably better than when it left the factory. When I get out of a&e with yet another injury I shall enjoy the video.


----------



## ashcroc

That looks absolutely superb. I'm sure you can hardly wait to get a coffee out of it.


----------



## MildredM

jimbojohn55 said:


> And the glamour shots
> 
> View attachment 32366
> View attachment 32367
> View attachment 32368
> View attachment 32369
> View attachment 32370


Had to come back for another look, and another read-through!


----------



## MildredM

jimbojohn55 said:


> the limited number of forum VIP,s who have seen my pimping bunker ......


I reckon you could make a bob or two offering guided tours, in the warmer months, of course


----------



## Obnic

Outstanding. Really desirable piece of iconic art now I'd say.

I really love it when good old things are brought back to their former glory. Few things give me more pleasure.


----------



## coffeechap

Obnic said:


> Outstanding. Really desirable piece of iconic art now I'd say.
> 
> I really love it when good old things are brought back to their former glory. Few things give me more pleasure.


When will you be brought back?


----------



## coffeechap

And another


----------



## jimbojohn55

Not that I'm trying to build an audience , but here are a few close ups - and I forgot to mention the plug - as the 70s pav didn't have an off switch I bought a plug that does


----------



## Missy

What a clever plug.

I feel you ought to put up a paywall... You'd be rich... Just keep a couple of teaser shots free, and make us pay to see the rest!


----------



## jimbojohn55

Missy said:


> What a clever plug.
> 
> I feel you ought to put up a paywall... You'd be rich... Just keep a couple of teaser shots free, and make us pay to see the rest!


welllll there may be a surprise picture later, I could make it pay per view, but I wont


----------



## coffeechap

jimbojohn55 said:


> welllll there may be a surprise picture later, I could make it pay per view, but I wont


Spoiler alert!


----------



## coffeechap

jimbojohn55 said:


> I could make it pay per view, but I wont


I think you should I believe it will be worth it! There are some clues already on this thread


----------



## jimbojohn55

Here's a clue


----------



## jimbojohn55




----------



## Jacko112

They look absolutely awesome Jim, you ought to be proud


----------



## joey24dirt

Double trouble. So have you been doing two this whole time?!?! "Twins Basil, twins!"


----------



## Missy

Twins!!!


----------



## jimbojohn55

joey24dirt said:


> Double trouble. So have you been doing two this whole time?!?! "Twins Basil, twins!"


I have - in a few of the shots you can see two of things by mistake, kept thinking someone might notice haha


----------



## joey24dirt

Hah excellent work!


----------



## Missy

jimbojohn55 said:


> I have - in a few of the shots you can see two of things by mistake, kept thinking someone might notice haha


I've just been back through and spotted a couple of double bases and a couple of knobs... I've been following avidly and never noticed!! It just never occured to me!


----------



## coffeechap

jimbojohn55 said:


> I have - in a few of the shots you can see two of things by mistake, kept thinking someone might notice haha


Some of did! But then some of knew from the start


----------



## Obnic

coffeechap said:


> When will you be brought back?


Cheeky bugger!


----------



## slamm

Terrific job and looks like you had twice the fun, they look amazing!


----------



## jimbojohn55

So I think I should explain how I came to have two 73 pavs to work on some of you will have guessed of course that the only possible explanation is that @coffeechap supplied them and indeed he did. we made an arrangement where I would restore both and one would be kept by both of us, I paid nothing for the Pav but put all the time parts and labour in on them, which I have enjoyed greatly, especially the challenge of getting them apart so its been a win win

So if you could get one and took one on at home what would it cost you to rebuild it

Seals £40 from Francesco

Element will cost you £45 from Gabor -if its dead

New drip tray insert £20

Powder coat £30 - or you could just hammerite £10

Specialist tools - you can use a three leg oil filter wrench - I did to reassemble

Rewire and flex £20

so your looking at between £60 and £100 or £150 and a lot of fun.


----------



## coffeechap

Need to find some more projects for Jim, god knows I have enough of them !


----------



## christos_geo

Jim that is absolutely astounding work, you are an artist!

And a meticulous documentarian. You're the Attenborough of pavonis!


----------



## rob177palmer

jimbojohn55 said:


> the limited number of forum VIP,s who have seen my pimping bunker will know - its actually a cellar under the house and void of heat sources, as the cold weather moves in the temperature quickly drops and with my blue fingers I just managed to get the wiring in but not the 1970,s weird circlips on the lever pins which defeated me so I went to the off licence instead, so no big reveal yet, although the beer is reducing my frustration at not finishing it tonight,,booooo
> 
> The wiring is an interesting 70,s throwback to more casual safety standards but adequate in my view, I have beefed up the gauge of the flex from 1.0mm to 1.5 in order that if the element ever goes and is subbed with a later twin element or a single 1000w one it will be upto the job - ive also used the same comedy oversize heat shield as the original - and added a bit for the earth wire, because its ...well kinda important
> 
> The wire between the switch and the elements is interestingly solid core as with the original again ive beefed it up to 1.5mm
> 
> its an odd but ok solution as it can be bent to avoid anything hot, there is a logic to it.
> 
> View attachment 32356












I remember the date on this base struck me as different to the last time you shared a base photo but - like others - didn't question and certainly didn't go back through the thread to check - it would have been crazy to think anyone was restoring two at once!!


----------



## Jon

This is so so cool.

I love the fact that you kept this a secret...

These look awesome!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Just connected with this thread. Trying to pick my jaw off the desk.


----------



## Hasi

yep, keep fooling us!

Looking very much forward to your next project thread









(just... wow!)


----------



## jimbojohn55

Hasi said:


> yep, keep fooling us!
> 
> Looking very much forward to your next project thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (just... wow!)


next Its a Royal Legend, and were not talking prince Harry !


----------



## Greydad

jimbojohn55 said:


> View attachment 32393
> View attachment 32394


Beautiful. I'm speechless.

...and choice of music top notch


----------



## jimbojohn55

Pavoni rubber base casting - one of the Pavs ive been working on had the rubber base missing - these have not been available since 1979 ish so fall into tha category of unobtanium parts - some of the first steel base pavs had the rubber (bumper type) base but they were quickly switched to plastic without the bumpers

Faced with this issue there was only one thing to do -dig out my 1986 ceramics degree notebooks on casting stuffff, ive also supplemented many hours of web research on types of casting rubber and mould making and a surprising amount on money on scaring the bin man with the early failures. There is a certain amount of trepidation in covering an original part in a moulding rubber, hoping that you will be able to separate them after - or have you permanently buried it in a soft pink grave, I shouldn't have worried it was coffeechaps base not mine, but it separated easily. However finally after changing media a couple of times and subject to a field trial I think i might have got there. who would guess you could have so much entertainment from 1.5kg of pink and black rubber!

The end result is an exact copy, colour texture, flex - these modern casting silicones and polyurathanes are the dogs doo da's.


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## joey24dirt

jimbojohn55 said:


> Pavoni rubber base casting - one of the Pavs ive been working on had the rubber base missing - these have not been available since 1979 ish so fall into tha category of unobtanium parts - some of the first steel base pavs had the rubber (bumper type) base but they were quickly switched to plastic without the bumpers
> 
> Faced with this issue there was only one thing to do -dig out my 1986 ceramics degree notebooks on casting stuffff, ive also supplemented many hours of web research on types of casting rubber and mould making and a surprising amount on money on scaring the bin man with the early failures. There is a certain amount of trepidation in covering an original part in a moulding rubber, hoping that you will be able to separate them after - or have you permanently buried it in a soft pink grave, I shouldn't have worried it was coffeechaps base not mine, but it separated easily. However finally after changing media a couple of times and subject to a field trial I think i might have got there. who would guess you could have so much entertainment from 1.5kg of pink and black rubber!
> 
> The end result is an exact copy, colour texture, flex - these modern casting silicones and polyurathanes are the dogs doo da's.
> 
> View attachment 33547
> View attachment 33548


Excellent job. Don't chuck that mould out, I can see it earning you a little bit of pocket money in the future


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## jimbojohn55

Heat testing poly - The cast base take a couple of days to fully cure, after this ive started to test them in situ on a pav - the trick has been to pop a temp probe through a drain hole in the base and then heat up the pav and leave it on for 45min - this is excessive and only simulates someone forgetting top turn it off so the heat would keep building, these machines don't have thermal cut outs so the durability of the base is key, long story short in normal use 44 C and at the end of 45mins 60 C still ten under the max- the tests continue with a different machine but it looks promising


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## jimbojohn55

You may remember I sent one of the Pavs elements to Gabor in Hungary after a fruitless search to find a UK company to do it locally - I knew it would take a few months as they only process a batch at a time so Gabor has to wait till he has enough - pricewise it costs about £65 including your postage costs which isn't bad considering that it looks like this when you get it back and the wattage is correct at 600 and 200 respectively


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## AndyDClements

It would be a shame to put that inside the boiler, it's such a lovely piece of work.


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## jimbojohn55

Just to say - the best one of the two @coffeechap 's is now for sale - https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?44645-1973-La-Pavoni-completely-refurbished-£400


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## Hasi

Just to double-check out of curiosity, where's the other one escaped to?


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## Jacko112




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## ashcroc

Hasi said:


> Just to double-check out of curiosity, where's the other one escaped to?


Didn't you buy it?


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## Hasi

I did buy one.

And clarified the other two (!):

twin sister is still with @jimbojohn55

poor relation (aka. spares donor but also refurbed) is with @coffeechap who is selling it at the moment

Hope folk don't mind it's been put up here


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## ashcroc

Hasi said:


> I did buy one.
> 
> And clarified the other two (!):
> 
> twin sister is still with @jimbojohn55
> 
> poor relation (aka. spares donor but also refurbed) is with @coffeechap who is selling it at the moment
> 
> Hope folk don't mind it's been put up here


Didn't know there was a done machine.


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## jimbojohn55

Actually there are three machines - I still have one ive just installed the new element from Gabor and need to wire it up, Ive got a fourth machine incoming that means I will need to let one of them go quite soon.

The Blue base is a 5th but doesn't belong to me, although I do take credit for finding it


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## ashcroc

jimbojohn55 said:


> Actually there are three machines - I still have one ive just installed the new element from Gabor and need to wire it up, Ive got a fourth machine incoming that means I will need to let one of them go quite soon.
> 
> The Blue base is a 5th but doesn't belong to me, although I do take credit for finding it


So this is all lies? I'm gobsmacked! 



jimbojohn55 said:


> View attachment 32393
> View attachment 32394


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## jimbojohn55

Its getting complicated but ive restored three, im doing the blue base which will be 4, and ive got 1 on the way

Getting hold of them is possible but getting them in good condition and restoring them is the tricky bit - it keeps me in the cellar

If you see mastermind feature a git who has an unhealthy nerd level of interest about early pavs and then scores zero in the second round that might be me


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## jimbojohn55

Now for sale on the forum


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