# the coffee officina



## dogday38 (Feb 15, 2012)

Not sure if these guys have been mentioned before but I have just collected an order from the coffee officina in matching tye, essex, close to where I live and have to say up until now I have been disappointed that essex seems to have been pretty absent on the roasting map, however I have been most impressed by the single origin and blends I have tried from this place, their espresso blend works particularly well on my old lever machine. Not able to comment on their delivery service as for once I am able to go collect but I can definitely say they are are a charming couple with good roasting and design history, willing to talk about what they doing, and hoping to grow from their community, attending farmers markets and the like and tying in with independent cafes. If anyones interested heres the link: http://thecoffeeofficina.com


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The coffee is really expensive £6 for 200g of their espresso blend and 6.50 for 200g of an Ethiopian.These guys set up in 2013 with a basic Has Garanti 10kg roaster. The prices seem high for the level of experience, but always nice to see new roasters.


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## dogday38 (Feb 15, 2012)

Agree, does seem a bit pricey but I paid £20 per kilo and I suppose I'm factoring in no delivery charge. For their level of experience I believe they are producing very decent coffee, and I'm no expert in economics by a long stretch but it seems the smaller you are as a business the more production cost etc etc..


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dogday38 said:


> Agree, does seem a bit pricey but I paid £20 per kilo and I suppose I'm factoring in no delivery charge. For their level of experience I believe they are producing very decent coffee, and I'm no expert in economics by a long stretch but it seems the smaller you are as a business the more production cost etc etc..


it's still pretty expensive....especially for that level of experience. They do market themselves well though, lots words like forensic, profiles etc...

However, if you have found a local roaster and you like their roasts...great.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Every day I see a new roaster appear. It does concern me a little bit.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

smokeybarn said:


> Every day I see a new roaster appear. It does concern me a little bit.


Why does it concern you?


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## VJC (Apr 23, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Why does it concern you?


Because it's more competition for him, I presume.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

VJC said:


> Because it's more competition for him, I presume.


 I can't see how they would be any competition for him.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Or people just buying a roaster and starting up without a clue what they're doing


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Forgive me, I am about to talk honestly...

It concerns me that the online market will become over saturated.

It's okay for the big boys, they will always have a large following of people that follow because everyone else follows. For the rest, it's a constant battle. I think the key to to succeeding is being established long enough to become one of those big boys. This takes many years of hard work, extreme determination and constant £re-investment.

The funny thing is, I actually like it this way. This is what prevents market saturation and I'm more determined than ever. I'm even starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

So to summarise, going complete full circle, I guess I'm not too concerned about market saturation after all.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2014)

I think it's great. More competition means that roasters will have to be good or amazing for people to buy beans from them in the first place. Everyone has different tastes so roasters will have to find their own niche and markets to target. I'll be honest your beans are ok Smokey Barn but i prefer some of the other roasters out there, just as some others will prefer yours over Rave for example.


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Of course, it's great for consumers! That is in no doubt what-so-ever.

Following on from what you said about different people having different tastes, I agree. But I also think, once a roaster gets to a certain level of experience that they are consistently sending out perfectly roasted beans, it's not that you don't like 'smokey barn' beans or you preffer 'xyz' beans, you just didn't like that particular bean that you had from smokey barn.

That doesn't mean you wont LOVE a different bean roasted by the same roaster. You're actually giving feedback to the farmer, not the roaster.

Example if you bought our Yirgacheffe Natural and didnt like it, does that mean that our roasting is not as good as the washed Yirg you preffered from xyz?


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

I'm interested in this new roaster. They are very close to me so I may swing by and say hello to them. I will see if they sell greens as well.

Personally, the more consumer choice the better and price will become an issue which has to be good for the consumer.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Problem is, what happens when roasters drive the price down with the importers, the farmers get paid less?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Problem is, what happens when roasters drive the price down with the importers, the farmers get paid less?


Market doesn't work like that....it's a traded commodity market in the main, with the exception of direct from farm and that is still affected by the commodity price. Lots of small roasters can't drive the price down with importers, because all that happens is they don't get the decent coffee. When I do a bulk buy, I really don't have long to get the good stuff, before it all gets hoovered up by those in the know. Sometimes there are literally a few hours to get a coffee and you only find out if you ask. The Gems of Araku Microlots were sold out within 60 minutes of anyone knowing they were there.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2014)

for all the roasters out there the only one that consistently has something good and different is Has Bean. I've used Rave quite a lot - but i get bored of the same thing after a while. Roasters need to experiment more with the unknown


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> for all the roasters out there the only one that consistently has something good and different is Has Bean. I've used Rave quite a lot - but i get bored of the same thing after a while. Roasters need to experiment more with the unknown


Couldn't disagree more!


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2014)

what do you suggest i try of yours Mr Smokey ? I might have a tipple.


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## VJC (Apr 23, 2014)

smokeybarn said:


> Forgive me, I am about to talk honestly...
> 
> It concerns me that the online market will become over saturated.
> 
> It's okay for the big boys, they will always have a large following of people that follow because everyone else follows. For the rest, it's a constant battle. I think the key to to succeeding is being established long enough to become one of those big boys. This takes many years of hard work, extreme determination and constant £re-investment.





smokeybarn said:


> Of course, it's great for consumers! That is in no doubt what-so-ever.
> 
> Following on from what you said about different people having different tastes, I agree. But I also think, once a roaster gets to a certain level of experience that they are constantly sending out perfectly roasted beans, it's not that you don't like 'smokey barn' beans or you prefer 'xyz' beans, you just didn't like that particular bean that you had from smokey barn.


Thank you, this is a shrewd and honest appraisal of the coffee marketplace - as a newbie to speciality coffees I have a huge range of choices at the moment, so many I can't try them all, not even just the list of roasters stickied at the top of this forum. I've been shortlisting recently (I haven't finished yet) & what I've found is that if the company isn't immediately helpful, or doesn't have a different USP, they can forget ending up on my shortlist.

You have an excellent site that's very newbie friendly* and you engage on forums like this, I'm pretty sure that you'll manage to keep above the competition as you'll always attract customers trying out new beans for the first time. Even if I end up not liking your roasts, you'll get my money once or twice as I try you out.

OTOH, I'm only going to (maybe) try another on my shortlist as they happen to be reasonably local and I'll probably pass their way at some point anyway - If I was in a different part of the country, I wouldn't consider them as their website is very unhelpful to new consumers and not that easy to navigate, either.

*I like your brewing guide videos, for example - I do wish someone would produce printable step-by-step pdfs in a similar vein that I could follow through.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

smokeybarn said:


> Of course, it's great for consumers! That is in no doubt what-so-ever.
> 
> Following on from what you said about different people having different tastes, I agree. But I also think, once a roaster gets to a certain level of experience that they are consistently sending out perfectly roasted beans, it's not that you don't like 'smokey barn' beans or you preffer 'xyz' beans, you just didn't like that particular bean that you had from smokey barn.
> 
> ...


A good roaster is transparent IMO. They develop the coffee just enough to let it speak for itself - adding no defects or additional characteristics that aren't there. For example would you really want that super special Kenyan to be oozing caramel , chocolate and bitter spice?!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> for all the roasters out there the only one that consistently has something good and different is Has Bean. I've used Rave quite a lot - but i get bored of the same thing after a while. Roasters need to experiment more with the unknown


Guess you haven't tried test many of rave beans then! What a broad sweeping naive statement you have made.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Noah&theBean said:


> for all the roasters out there the only one that consistently has something good and different is Has Bean. I've used Rave quite a lot - but i get bored of the same thing after a while. Roasters need to experiment more with the unknown


14 Single origins and 7 blends....

The single origins change frequently, fail to see what more rave can offer?


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2014)

I am not critiquing them at all. I think you misunderstand.

If anything my comment was made out of overindulgence on Rave coffee beans.


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

From smokey barn I can recommend the Columbia finca la Mercedes, very fruity, and the Costa Rica is also very good at a very good price. Chris recommends the Malawi geisha too, I've not tried it myself yet though


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> A good roaster is transparent IMO. They develop the coffee just enough to let it speak for itself - adding no defects or additional characteristics that aren't there. For example would you really want that super special Kenyan to be oozing caramel , chocolate and bitter spice?!


So following this through to it's conclusion why make coffee any other way than the way in which the roasters originally taste it whether bought at origin or through a broker i.e. cupping it? Not every bean works well for any method of brewing at a single roast level and some beans could end up having that much acidity they were undrinkable for anyone if they were roasted in such a way as to add or take nothing away from then bean. Then there is also who is the arbiter of whether a coffee is underdeveloped in flavour or over developed? There is room to accommodate everyones tastes without resorting to a darker roast vs lighter roast debate neither is inherently better.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just one other little point, I noted Officina selling 200g bags at the same or more than most other roasters sell 250g bags....for a new roaster, i think their prices are pretty cheeky to be honest. I also remembered something about prescribed coffee quantities for pre-packed coffee. This was the weights and measures act that enforced what had to be prescribed quantities. My understanding that is was (unless it has changed) *75 g, 125 g, 250 g, 500 g,750 g, 1 kg or a multiple of500 g. I don't remember it being 200g.*

*
*

So I looked it up.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1988/2040/schedule/1/made

I think the idea was originally to avoid price obfuscation and allow consumers to correctly understand the cost of a commodity product.

in addition I did not see any batch numbers, roast dates or best before dates on their packaging.....of course this could have been on the reverse....no doubt the original poster can let us know.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Square Mile and Workshop sell 350g bags.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I bet the op is glad he posted up about his local roaster now....# positive feedback....


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> I bet the op is glad he posted up about his local roaster now....# positive feedback....


Nope, just feedback....fortunately it's not yet politically incorrect in the UK.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Nope, just feedback....fortunately it's not yet politically incorrect in the UK.


Nothing to do with political correctness . Guy posted up giving positive head up on a local roaster he enjoys , as he has tasted the beans they roast and he likes them

Posts from everyone else wouldn't encourage me to do a similar thing in future .


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## Chris_on_caffeine (Jul 21, 2012)

I think we've made the mistake of having a industry based conversation in a consumer marketplace!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

smokeybarn said:


> I think we've made the mistake of having a industry based conversation in a consumer marketplace!


Not at all as after it's something that affects us as consumers, at least unlike a lot of other business models there is no multinational giant coming along hoping to ride the crest of a wave by scooping up all the small roasters in the country.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Not at all as after it's something that affects us as consumers, at least unlike a lot of other business models there is no multinational giant coming along hoping to ride the crest of a wave by scooping up all the small roasters in the country.


Unfortunately though...if I dare to mention something in consumers interests and this happens to not be super positive about a business, it's not taken well by people. From my simplistic view *we have a new inexperienced roaster*, willing to 2*0% less coffee for the same price or more* than experienced roasters selling coffee that is at least as good. I personally think it's taking the mickey. You are totally right it does affect you as consumers and unless you don't stand for it, you will get more of it. We all know about the shrinking confectionery products with the shrink resistant prices.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Unfortunately though...if I dare to mention something in consumers interests and this happens to not be super positive about a business, it's not taken well by people. From my simplistic view *we have a new inexperienced roaster*, willing to 2*0% less coffee for the same price or more* than experienced roasters selling coffee that is at least as good. I personally think it's taking the mickey. You are totally right it does affect you as consumers and unless you don't stand for it, you will get more of it. We all know about the shrinking confectionery products with the shrink resistant prices.


I think that you are absolutely right Dave, and I would imagine customers will vote with their wallets. I'm certainly not interested in paying over the odds for 20% less coffee, unless I was absolutely certain it was going to be something spectacular, or like the Union Yemeni coffee I bought via their offer as it was something I really wanted to try but wasn't prepared to spend £9.65 plus postage for 250 g.

Out of interest is there actually any credible nationally certified training scheme for roasters and would be roasters?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roaster


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

No one is forcing anyone to buy their coffee. I imagine that to the op having a local roaster where there's was none is a beneficial thing for him.

And it's helpful that he let the forum know it tastes nice

........


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you can pick a bag up without paying postage that makes it a lot more viable too


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Out of interest is there actually any credible nationally certified training scheme for roasters and would be roasters?


There are roaster training courses and of course certified by the professional bodies (which you can take any way you want). Some of the major manufacturers of roasters also run courses...I would think these can be very good becuase they are on the roaster you bought. However, it doesn't make you a good roaster, it's almost meaningless. You can take all the courses you want and still produce shite, it might improve things, it might give you a few weeks head start, but the one thing you cannot get from training, is experience and feel. it's also extreemely unlikely in any courses not done by the roasters manufacturer themselves, that you will use the roaster you buy during your training. In a sense it's similar to Catering School, many can go, few become Michelin Star Chefs.

I wrote a 50 page userguide for the CBR-1200, really more of a roasting and setting up a roasting business guide.....I still felt I had only scratched the surface of what someone contemplating taking up roasting needs to know. When you roast coffee, only part of the story is what goes on in the roaster....selection and packing also plays a major part.

I personally think it takes years to start to know what you don't know, then more years to learn what you don't know. Turning beans brown...you can learn that on the typical 1 week course from certified training bodies.

Go get a Gene Cafe,* mod it* and get a BB Bulk buy of 14 coffees.....you will learn more by roasting, cupping and drinking them than in a week on a training course.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> There are roaster training courses and of course certified by the professional bodies (which you can take any way you want). Some of the major manufacturers of roasters also run courses...I would think these can be very good becuase they are on the roaster you bought. However, it doesn't make you a good roaster, it's almost meaningless. You can take all the courses you want and still produce shite, it might improve things, it might give you a few weeks head start, but the one thing you cannot get from training, is experience and feel. it's also extreemely unlikely in any courses not done by the roasters manufacturer themselves, that you will use the roaster you buy during your training. In a sense it's similar to Catering School, many can go, few become Michelin Star Chefs.
> 
> I wrote a 50 page userguide for the CBR-1200, really more of a roasting and setting up a roasting business guide.....I still felt I had only scratched the surface of what someone contemplating taking up roasting needs to know. When you roast coffee, only part of the story is what goes on in the roaster....selection and packing also plays a major part.
> 
> ...


Thanks Dave, I've certainly not got any ambitions of going on a roasting course I was just wondering if such a thing existed. I'd love to have Gene Cafe but in my tiny tiny flat I just haven't got anywhere I could either put or store one let alone use it. I would also suspect that in order to be any good as a roaster, as in a lot of things, you actually have to realise what you don't know and be open to continually learning in order to improve your skills.


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