# So you think Sage descaler is expensive



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Might be suitable for an occasional machine treat






Came up while looking for another that contains sulphamic acid. It's interesting to see how the thermoblock machine is descaled - via the hot water outlet. I'd assume to keep it away from any aluminium in the group head.

John

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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Can't get rid of that shite music though, can it?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I found one. 10 sescales for £8.49 inc postage but it states 1 or 2 tablets, 20 descales if 1 use

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Descaler-Tablets-Descaling-Coffee-Espresso-Machine/dp/B06XJPXKHB/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531752341&sr=8-2&keywords=woldoclean

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Guy, just buy some of this; about £16 inc del for 5 litres, of course if you have a shop near you then it's about £8 for 5 litres. Phosphoric acid at up to even 48% is fairly low corroding for Al and steel, but at 28% (this stuff) it should be effective and boiler safe. If I had to descale these things, it's what I would use....I mean 8.49 for 10 or 20 tablets is a joke.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PHOS-FOOD-PLANT-DESCALER-CLOVER/dp/B074M94YQ5/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1531753818&sr=8-9&keywords=phos+descaler


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I think I have found one that's pretty cheap and loosely similar to the Sage one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dezcal-Urnex-Activated-Remover-Powder/dp/B004L8V966/ref=sr_1_273_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1531756310&sr=8-273-spons&keywords=descaler+coffee&psc=1








I reckon it will do me anyway. We all have scales so no problem mixing. I wouldn't treat it as snuff though.

It's bean interesting looking. The sulphamic acid seems to be related to use on thermoblock type machines - short contact time - expensive small bottles/packs. Puly according to a post on here is 2 fruit acids and an inhibitor / acidity regulator. Many espresso machine descalers seem to have sulphamic and ok for stainless and copper. Aluminium probably not.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> ...I mean 8.49 for 10 or 20 tablets is a joke.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/PHOS-FOOD-PLANT-DESCALER-CLOVER/dp/B074M94YQ5/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1531753818&sr=8-9&keywords=phos+descaler


Sage is now £13.95 for 4 with free postage makes those look pretty good. They seem to have decided to offer free postage over £10 and up'd prices to suite in some cases such as this one. It was free over £20.

Also noticed that they may have dropped the centre burr on the grinders. Not on the web anyway.

The waldo...................... what ever the name is on Amazon offer the descaler in several forms.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ajohn said:


> I think I have found one that's pretty cheap and loosely similar to the Sage one
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dezcal-Urnex-Activated-Remover-Powder/dp/B004L8V966/ref=sr_1_273_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1531756310&sr=8-273-spons&keywords=descaler+coffee&psc=1
> 
> ...


They have changed the dosage from what amazon show - 200g per 3.9L

I asked about the content of another descaler on Amazon specifically sulphamic acid. Reply no it contains no poisonous substances.







Interesting the rat ld50 for sulphamic is 3.16g / kg, and 3g / kg for citric. It's why it can be used. I always wonder where they get these 1kg rats from. The ones round here look underfed and a lot lighter.

John

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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Calcinet is sulphamic acid.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

espressotechno said:


> Calcinet is sulphamic acid.


I believe it's more of a skin etc irritant than say citric but there are all sorts of things about that need considerations in that area eg bleach.

I suspect what to use matters more with thermoblock type machines but some descale quicker than others as well. I did see a comment justifying it's use on thermoblock - no one uses aluminium thermoblocks any more. Sage did but don't now. It used to be 2 aluminium plates fastened together. The video showing descaling of another make is interesting as well - done via the hot water outlet. Makes sense as the idea is to descale the thermoblock - I believe some machines use 2 so both would need descaling. Latest thermojet or what ever they call it - pass.

These are the msds for the one I have bought and calcinet

http://www.bunn.com/sites/default/files/wysiwyg/MSDS_Urnex_Dezcal_Descaler_GB_v3.pdf

https://www.gev-online.co.uk/resources/Artikelinfo/ODAyMTE4X1NlY0Rhc2hfNzM0NTRfSVRBX19XU0ZSRUk=.pdf

There does seem to be some about that use hydrochloric acid but I'd suspect it's at brick cleaner strength.

John

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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Nasty stuff Hydrochloric acid - stay well clear !

Sulphamic acid is used By Bravilor etc for their filter brewers & hot water boilers (all s/steel components).

Jura & Franke B2C machine' thermoblocks have a s/steel coil inside an alloy doughnut, so sulphamic works fine.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Just bringing this up again.

I was using citric acid on my DTP but due to the chaining to the barista pro I was thinking of changing to something faster due to the small time spent in the thermojet. Is this the logic behind sulphamic acid in the sage descaler?

What about kilrock (lactic acid) seems to be super fast on the kettle scale


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Late but I'm not convince Sages descaler has any sulphamic acid in it. It's bad news for aluminium. I tried some that does and also an inhibiter on the BE and it resulted in the need for a pretty major repair. Never again. I'll stick with Puly.

If some one wanted to dismantle and clean separate stainless parts fine use anything otherwise something known to be safe is a better idea. Their engineers use Puly and scale is something they often have to deal with.


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