# No milk thermometer required?



## Beemer (Jun 19, 2012)

Awaiting delivery of my Duetto III. As the steam boiler is PID controlled and presumably like the brew boiler the offset can be altered does this mean that there is no need to use a jug thermometer when frothing?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Good luck finding any thermometer that can keep up with the steam power of the duetto.

Did you opt for the 2 hole tip to control that power?

Also if you set the steam boiler to 150 or thereabouts, do you expect your milk to get to 150 degree?

Jeepers!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Yep. Not sure I understand where you're coming from, Beemer. With most machines the steam temperature is unrelated to the final milk temperature. You need to stop steaming manually.... unless, that is, the Duetto has an Auto Steam feature that will cut off the steam without manual intervention...?


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Should never use a jug thermometer ever when foaming, serves no use whatsoever, learn to judge by touch, sight and sound. Thermometer can be used for latte art etching.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I still like to use one occasionally to make sure I'm hitting the target. Recalibrating.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> I still like to use one occasionally to make sure I'm hitting the target. Recalibrating.


ok yes I agree, thats a fair point, but I meant to use it daily or each time is not good, as unless you learn your thermometers lag time (harder than getting milk right by touch) it serves no place on the working bar.


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## Beemer (Jun 19, 2012)

Okay so I'm showing that I am a newbie of the art of frothing. I have watched several You Tube videos where I have seen with and without thermometer being used. I have also seen an air hole mentioned and on other videos no air hole mentioned yet frothing takes place. (No mention of an air inlet hole in the Duetto steam tube)

How therefore do I learn about frothing and optimum milk temperature? As far as the steam boiler is concerned I assume that the steam is super-heated hence the fast warmup and yes I need to limit the final milk temperature but how?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Yes, steam is steam... superheated to way beyond 100C under the pressure of the boiler. When you release the steam through the wand into the milk in the pitcher it will (a) make the milk move, and your job is to make it move the way you want it to, and (b) gradually raise the milk's temperature. Throughout this rise in temperature you can introduce air by lowering the pitcher until the wand touches the surface of the milk and you get a slight 'ssst' sound. This creates texture/foam/microfoam, depending upon how good you are at controlling it. You have to stop introducing air at 80-100F otherwise the taste is (apparently) impaired. Then you keep heating the milk to a range between 140-160F (60-70C) and no higher. You can establish the milk temperature, and hence when to stop steaming, in a number of ways. 1) Have a probe thermometer in the jug. These probes have a few seconds lag, so if you want to stop at 160F, you should actually stop when it says around 145F on the probe. Using a probe is the best approach for learners, in my view. 2) Use your hand on the side of the pitcher to assess the temperature. The common view is that when it becomes too hot to hold then it is at the right temperature. This is fine if you are used to how hot 160F is, but different people have different pain thresholds in their palms so it can be misleading for learners. 3) Buy some TempTag stickers from Glenn on this forum. PM him. They go on the side of the pitcher and tell you when to stop steaming.

Does that help? Don't feel bad for not knowing this!


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Personally, I find the TempTags that Glenn sells to be more responsive and easier to use than a thermometer. But t hat said, you eventually get to learn to judge the cut-off point by the feel of the jug in your hand.


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## Beemer (Jun 19, 2012)

Yes that helped a lot!

thanks


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## Beemer (Jun 19, 2012)

Why do they sell the TempTags in 12s. Do they only last for a defined time?


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I am still using the first one I applied, ages ago. But I'm not a regular milk steamer. They will wear out in time. I'm sure that Glenn would sell you a single, but even a sheet of them won't exactly break the bank!


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I steam milk every day give or take. My jug gets rinsed every time and put through the dishwasher every week. I applied my first temp tag about 2 months ago, still no sign of it coming off yet!


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## Obsy (May 21, 2012)

I must admit that a few weeks ago I used a milk thermometer every time I steamed milk until I got to know how the milk should sound/look and even though I don't use it everytime, I do have to use it occasionally to check. Am going to buy a sheet of the temp tags from Glenn though as they sound much less intrusive to use. I'd happily recommend a milk thermometer to every new learner though as Mike said.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Excellent advice from mike, I'm a chef by trade so using my hand initially was misleading, although I did learn to assess the heat eventually, also in addition if u have Teflon coated jugs, they conduct heat slightly slower than conventional jugs.

I have never seen a more convincing argument for the use of thermometers on milk jugs, I was always set against using them. But it appears they serve a purpose.

I also use the temp tag stickers on the side of my buono, for brew water temperature.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Beemer said:


> Why do they sell the TempTags in 12s. Do they only last for a defined time?


Depending on stock availability TempTags are sold as Singles, Sheets of 4 or in packs of 12 (2 sheets)

The cheapest option is to buy a pack of 12 (3 sheets)

However, for a home user the most economical is a sheet of 4 TempTags which retails for £7.50 plus postage

Currently only Brown (aka Full Milk) in stock until mid-September when the next shipment arrives.

These react at 65c

As a Bank Holiday special I have removed the postage charge on sheets of 4 or more - for all orders until 0900 Tuesday 28 August

Order online at http://www.freewebstore.org/TempTag-UK


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## mendoza99 (Oct 12, 2012)

Has anyone else tried the temperature decals?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

mendoza99 said:


> Has anyone else tried the temperature decals?


A growing number of coffee shops now use them and also Coffee Forums UK members above have endorsed them and recommended them to their local cafes too.

Happy to answer any queries you have.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I personally don't bother with a thermometer at home any more. At work I use one in the smaller jugs to stop me from scalding and ruining the milk and microfoam, but I normally hit the target by hand if not. But as others have said, for beginners a thermometer is a great guide when to stop introducing air etc.


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## Pablo (Mar 19, 2011)

Hi Glenn,

I assume you've tested the tags with different pitchers. Can you tell us how the temperature that the tag reads in relation to the temperature of milk inside the pitcher and also your tested method of using the tags as indication with, for example, a Classic. When the brown tag changes colour at 65C, how much higher the temperature of milk is likely to be in the pitcher?

At the moment, as I'm still a learner, I do still use the milk thermometer a lot. I stretch until 40C then steam until just after 60C as the Motta thermometer isn't the fastest to react and I don't want the milk to go over 70C.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Pablo

I have tested with most milk jug types and used a Fluke to measure the actual milk temperature when the TempTag reacted. There was usually only a 1c - 2c variance as the metal is quite thin and the heat transfers quite well.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Just because you do not use a thermometer doesn't make you a professional barista. Get a good quality one and understand its temperature time lag when steaming your milk to the heat YOU prefer, once you have grasped that life becomes oh so simple.

It might not look sauve and professioinal but your drink will be perfect every time. ----------oooops only in my opinion

Ian


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## Pablo (Mar 19, 2011)

Glenn said:


> Hi Pablo
> 
> I have tested with most milk jug types and used a Fluke to measure the actual milk temperature when the TempTag reacted. There was usually only a 1c - 2c variance as the metal is quite thin and the heat transfers quite well.


Thanks. I didn't think there would be a great deal of difference due to the heat conductivity of the metal but it's reassuring that there's so little.


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