# Grinder recommendation needed



## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Hello folks

After having purchased a Sage DB, I am now in pursue of my new grinder.

Been using a vario for the last 4 years with my Silvia, it's been serving me well but a new upgrade to match the new machine would be more ideal.

I have a Mazzer SJ, mini electronic, Eureka Zenith etc in mind and a budge is around £400.

Any recommendation will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Jon


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Rather splendid fiorenzato with big burrs available from @coffeechap I believe


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

kennyboy993 said:


> Rather splendid fiorenzato with big burrs available from @coffeechap I believe


It would be a good asset if he has one available.

I am up for anything recommended here as long as its within my budget


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

If it's still available he should along soon Jonny - and from what I read is a fantastic grinder.

@dfk41 used to run one or still does


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

kennyboy993 said:


> If it's still available he should along soon Jonny - and from what I read is a fantastic grinder.
> 
> @dfk41 used to run one or still does


haven't heard much about fiorenzato - looking forward to comparing this to more well known SJ!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The f83 May be gone, but I do have a mint F64e which will have brand new burrs fitted around your budget


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> The f83 May be gone, but I do have a mint F64e which will have brand new burrs fitted around your budget


Hi Coffeechap

How is the f64e compared to the SJ? Is it a lot more superior to the SJ?

I am obviously new to the grinders so your advice would be helpful

Jon


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi @coffeechap

any news on a f64e and a price?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Couple of thoughts for you

https://machina-coffee.co.uk/collections/domestic-grinders/products/eureka-mignon-v3-specialita-anthracite-55mm

Going on video's it does clump less than the earlier one

One I wondered about

http://www.myespresso.co.uk/product/m80-grinder-non-doser-electronic-m80e-polished/

Very nearly did. Unlike mazzer these don't use springs to take up play in the adjustment thread. That means that some wraps of ptfe tape on the thread may improve them. It's not that uncommon a feature of many grinders.

Mazzer use springs to keep the burrs apart and take up clearance in the adjustment thread.

New against used - price drops when new one are later sold are very similar % wise what ever is bought. Depends on age and condition and if 2nd 2nd 2nd hand may depend on what the previous owner paid for it. Sometimes warrantees are transferable which may up the price that has to be paid.

John

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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ajohn said:


> Couple of thoughts for you
> 
> https://machina-coffee.co.uk/collections/domestic-grinders/products/eureka-mignon-v3-specialita-anthracite-55mm
> 
> ...


Hi John again

that qumar one sounds interesting. Will consider that one too.

Regarding an eureka mignon, would it be a lot better than a vario?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

If you can get up to Lancaster there's a SJ for sale.

Quamar looks good, there's a few Quamar owners on here. I'm sure I've read that there's some mention of the sensitivity of the buttons on the Quamar e models. Could be wrong, it was a while ago.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry forgot to ask, how much space have you for a Grinder?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

jonny11 said:


> Hi John again
> 
> that qumar one sounds interesting. Will consider that one too.
> 
> Regarding an eureka mignon, would it be a lot better than a vario?


Ownership I would say so but doubt there would be much difference in the cup.

If you're gonna be upgrading I'd say you want to be going 64mm burrs minimum to feel a significant step on


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The previous model of Mignon is the one sometimes suggested as the min level for people on a budget. You'll probably get some opinions.

That Quamar has mixed opinions. It's seen as a Jolly that takes up less space with similar grinding rates. Where it might differ from a Mazzer is the motor rating, on the other hand it might not. Some grinders mention so many mins on must be followed by so many mins off. The other aspect is the lack of Mazzer's springs. The play in the thread depends on how accurately it's cut - in practice there will always be some and it probably varies from make to make.

If you get no comments here it might be best to ask separately about each one in the grinder forum. If I remember correctly @DavecUK mentioned that he saw the Quamar as average and nothing special - left behind compared with others. He might think the same about Mazzer. He tests lots of things. I suspect that the electronic version is rather well priced for what it offers as is the Mignon. The electronic F64 is about £800 new and is a much taller grinder

I can't really offer an opinion on any of them as I haven't owned them. One thing I look at when I am buying is weight - gives an idea how hefty the motor actually is. A problem with motors is that they can produce all sorts of power levels but it's pretty common to mention one that isn't really continuous on all sorts of things. One grinder springs to mind that is rather extreme in this respect - one that weighs as it grinds and spins the outer conical burr. They give a duty cycle in the manual and due to that I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

The big problem with grinders is BUDGET. People can mention all sorts but price has to be a consideration for most people.

John

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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Sorry forgot to ask, how much space have you for a Grinder?


Im based in bournemouth so Lancaster would be too far









space I've got is about 54cm - mazzer SJ, fiorenzato, quamar will all fit (with a small hopper)


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ajohn said:


> The previous model of Mignon is the one sometimes suggested as the min level for people on a budget. You'll probably get some opinions.
> 
> That Quamar has mixed opinions. It's seen as a Jolly that takes up less space with similar grinding rates. Where it might differ from a Mazzer is the motor rating, on the other hand it might not. Some grinders mention so many mins on must be followed by so many mins off. The other aspect is the lack of Mazzer's springs. The play in the thread depends on how accurately it's cut - in practice there will always be some and it probably varies from make to make.
> 
> ...


hi John

that's right. budget is important - I've got about £400, and can stretch a bit.

SJ is well within the budget while fiorenzato and quamar might just fit.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

A used grinder will get you more bang for your buck.


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

kennyboy993 said:


> Ownership I would say so but doubt there would be much difference in the cup.
> 
> If you're gonna be upgrading I'd say you want to be going 64mm burrs minimum to feel a significant step on


yes, thats what I thought. seems that it will be a f64e


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

jonny11 said:


> yes, thats what I thought. seems that it will be a f64e


The Quamar has 63mm burrs. The thing to have now it seems is 80mm burrs. Probably bigger and bigger as time goes on. The F63e is 63mm as well. Considering the price difference it aught to be a better grinder than the Quamar. The F63e is dearer than the F64e. The difference is probably rating. 350w against 650w. Quamar 420W. If only they would all rate the motors as they should be. I noticed an old one that did recently, something like 250w, input getting on for 1kw. Not a very efficient motor probably down to space available but there can be huge difference in what actually comes out and how long they can do this without overheating. Some spec Kg of coffee per day, drinks or what ever. Some give off time to on time. Some nothing at all but the manuals may be worth looking at.








I'm not trying to steer you more mentioning why the things are a nightmare. I do have an old Florenzato that has done a lot of work and it is well put together and still runs sweetly. In it's day I think it was in their higher end. It suggests that they can make decent grinders. I want it for parts but best not get into why.

John

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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

There's a scratched up e5 for sale in the forum. Might be worth an offer. A can of plastidip would make it look a lot better.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Not for £400 let me tell you.^


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Jony said:


> Not for £400 let me tell you.^


was just going to say that XD


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I suspect that the latest greatest big burrs will be out of your budget but you are probably at the lower end of used grinders like the 64E. The main thing about buying used is that there is likely to be less loss than buying new if at some point you sell it. The other aspect is that doserless and electronic seems to becoming more and more prevalent but those will be more expensive than ex cafe doser models new or 2nd hand.

It's ok for some to say such and such gives more bang per buck purely on the size of the burrs but it suggests that it wasn't possible to make decent coffee before they started making them. The main thing you would notice is a higher output rate. It's been said that they also have a different taste profile. Really what matters is the quality of the grinds and output rates also depend on the design of the burrs. The 64mm in my mini for instance won't match the output rates of the 64mm in the jolly - that means they are cooler when they come out - cooler than my Sage grinder actually.







There is a taste difference between Sage and Mini as well. Curiously it goes the way some people think it should when conical and flat are compared.

Youtube isn't a bad place to roam around to see various grinders in action but the ones from people who sell them might be a bit misleading. They are likely to use beans that grind easily. Here's a semi jocular one on the Quamar. It seems to be a pretty straight one and looks ok to me.






Maybe your best option really is to stick with what you have for a while and calibrate it. That might turn out to be the soundest advice you get. Then at some point if you upgrade you may be able to appreciate the improvement - providing there is one. Also gives you time to see what crops up. When and if you do upgrade you can sell it. If it doesn't go on here use ebay. That still isn't that bad a place to look for grinders actually. I found my Sage upgrade yesterday. It would probably have been a bit cheaper bought off here but who knows. Conical and if it doesn't swing taste as those should I'll simply sell it. Selling if I move on is why I will only buy electronic doserless. I've tried just doserless as well and aren't too keen on them. Doser models - many use them modified but personally I wouldn't go there.

John

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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

ajohn said:


> .It's ok for some to say such and such gives more bang per buck purely on the size of the burrs but it suggests that it wasn't possible to make decent coffee before they started making them.
> 
> -


I think I was just saying you can pick up grinder that you'd pay £650 new, for £400 used.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I think I was just saying you can pick up grinder that you'd pay £650 new, for £400 used.


The comment I made wasn't aimed at your post so shouldn't really have used the term. The post was really about burr size and that burrs of the same size can do entirely different things.

The F64E is more like £800 if people have to pay the VAT but I'd assume if bought from a business the used price would be based on £650. Not sure, that's why I mentioned £400 may be a bit short on a pristine example.







I doubt if I will ever find a business that wants to sell a grinder so pass. And if registered they should charge vat.

The Quamar 80E is a bit of an enigma in some ways. 3.5kg a day and Jolly production rates at a relatively low price. There are some posts about it on here. The search will bring them up - or google as that will find archived ones too.

The reason I mentioned maybe ptfe tape is down to one of their own videos when the fineness stop screw is fitted and tested. It suggests a bit of play in the thread. It could be tiny fractions of a mm now way of knowing without actually having one. Mazzer get round it with springs. I know of one grinder where the play is a bit excessive. Ptfe tape fixes it and adds a dry lubricant. It's the magic roundabout flat burr model sold under several names. There is a crew review video mentioning that this isn't that uncommon a feature on grinders and suggests using ptfe tape. When grinding with a hopper on the grinds hold them apart so the effect is most noticeable when tested at the finest setting empty and clean. Might interest people who weigh in on some makes of grinder.

John

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