# Andreja Premium - Boiler / Heating Fault



## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Hi All

Just looking for some technical assistance. My Andreja Premium was starting to smell a bit odd lately and I realised it's because I almost never use the steam/water function so the water in the boiler had just been sat there for ages, so I decided to try and flush it through the system. I did this by turning the hot tap on and starting to fill up the water tank as it flushed through. This was going fine and the water coming out was grim!

Then I heard a popping type noise from inside the machine and the pressure gauge then raised up to over 3bar before then dropping down to Zero. The boiler now won't heat up. I can still draw water through the group so the pump still works fine but the red light for the boiler just stays on all the time and the boiler isn't heating.

I have stripped the covers off and checked for any obvious leaks and can't see anything. I have tipped the machine up and drawn a bit of water out of the boiler in case it was overfull, but when turning the machine back on, it doesn't try to pump any more water into the boiler.

What would be best to check next?

Thanks for any help all.

Neil


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Just checked back and I had a similar problem 3 years ago. I replaced the high temp switch and pressure-stat. I've just ordered these 2 items from BB to replace them again.

Do you reckon that's the issue?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

At any point did you allow the water level to drop right down ? If you were draining the water faster than the pump could fill the water level in the boiler would drop , exposing the element. This would cause a sudden boiling=steam + rise on temp gauge==popping sound as the element is exposed.

I think you have probably ' cooked' the heating element. Do you have access to a multi meter ?

Lie the machine down (UNPLUGGED) pull the two terminals off the boiler, set the meter to Ohms and connect one clip to each terminal = READING ?

With one clip connected to one terminal touch the other clip to the element flange / bolt = READING


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

That doesn't sound good!

The water tank at the rear was always kept between 50% and 100% full as I was doing the flushing. I'm not sure exactly how much water was in the boiler at any time, I presume that the machine wouldn't let you pump out more through the hot tap than it could take in from the reservoir?

I do have a multimeter yes but very little idea of how to use one! I'll have a play with as you have suggested above.

On the second point, what do you mean by the flange/bolt?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Why would the pump not be trying to fill the boiler if it's part empty then? Would that happen if the element was fried?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The pump has a limited capacity, the water is being expelled by the pressure in the boiler= hotter = more pressure = greater flow.

Set you meter to Ohms (lowest scale) switch on and touch both probes / clips together, this should read ZERO and possibly buzz = meter OK.

Where the element screws into the boiler 1 1/2" (38 mm) nut and a flat surface behind with seal = flange OR the boiler case.

In the first test you are testing RESISTANCE in boiler element. Second test to see if there is leakage from element to case.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Right, just been to Screwfix and got a new multimeter.

When I set the resistance level to 20k, the reading between probes on the element says 3.7, which I guess is 3700 ohms?

On the same 20k level, the reading between the probe and the flange just says '1'

I'm guessing that sounds like good news in that my element isn't shot?

The other things of consideration are the hi-temp switch which has failed before and I have replaced and the pressurestat which I have also replaced before. I have ordered replacements of these from BellaBarista for delivery tomorrow. I've tried resetting the high-temp switch but can't hear a click when I press the button.

The only other potential thing could be the water level probe that goes into the boiler. I haven't removed this yet.

Thanks very much for your help so far Frank, it's much appreciated.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

My next theory is that the general flushing of crap out of the main boiler has dislodged some gunk into the pressure stat which has then failed to switch off the boiler at the correct point. The boiler has hit overdrive, steam pressure has risen to overcapacity and blown the pressure valve at the top (which may have been the pop I heard). The escape of steam through the pressure valve may have hit the hi-temperature switch and broken it which is now causing the system not to start again.

At least that's my thinking..........which means my order from Bella Barista might fix it? <he says hoping!>

By the way, the water from the main boiler was literally like tar. I never steam milk and never use the hot tap so I think it's been sat in there at steam pressures for potentially over a year!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> Right, just been to Screwfix and got a new multimeter.
> 
> When I set the resistance level to 20k, the reading between probes on the element says 3.7, which I guess is 3700 ohms?
> 
> ...


 Set resistance to 100 ohms scale and see what you get the heating element should be around 42 ish ohms , perhaps a tad more, can't remember exactly (pull off the heating element connections first).

Check with the probes either side of the high temp switch (ideally pull off the terminals first), this should *not* read open circuit.

P.S. When you draw water from the boiler as soon as the water level falls below the probe tip, the Gicar/Giemme box will shot off the heating element, so you can't damage the heating element in the way described. The heating element may have failed but exposure due to drawing water from the boiler would not have been the cause.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Thanks Dave

The lowest level I have on my multimeter is 200. When I set it to that it just reads '1'. It only starts giving a reading when I move it up to the 20k level.

How do I check the hi-temp switch. Do I just check that there is resistance across it (i.e. there isn't a resistance of zero?)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> Thanks Dave
> 
> The lowest level I have on my multimeter is 200. When I set it to that it just reads '1'. It only starts giving a reading when I move it up to the 20k level.
> 
> How do I check the hi-temp switch. Do I just check that there is resistance across it (i.e. there isn't a resistance of zero?)


 Yes just check not a resistance of infinite across the limit stat.

If you tested the element as I said and don't see 40 ish ohms but 1, then it sounds like the element is shot. Touch the Ohmmeter terminals together on the 200 ohm range see what you get.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

If I touch the ohmeter terminals together on 200ohms I see 0.01.

I have removed the hi-temp limit stat and measure resistance across it as close to zero (0.02) on 200ohm setting. I guess that means it's broken?

I've also properly removed the connections from the heating element and I just see '1' at all measurement levels on the ohmeter.

Bad news if I've got to replace the heating terminal. Not sure how it's happened though if as you've said above the water probe would stop this from overheating the element.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Next question, BB don't have the official Andreja Premium elements in stock but would the generic element here typically fit?

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/heating-element-1600w-230v.html

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> If I touch the ohmeter terminals together on 200ohms I see 0.01.
> 
> I have removed the hi-temp limit stat and measure resistance across it as close to zero (0.02) on 200ohm setting. I guess that means it's broken?
> 
> ...


 Limit stat is fine and if you have measured correctly sounds like your heating element is shot. If you remove it, you will probably see a hole in the sheath...possible not, but it certainly sounds like it's failed. If you want to do a further check, place the probes into the heating element connectors, wedge them in don't hold them (as with a super duper cheapie meter it might not be so safe to hold the probes), then switch the machine on, if there is water in the boiler and the red boiler heating light is on my guess is you will see 238V across those terminals. Don't forget to put the meter into A/C voltage mode first 250 or 300V whatever as long as it's more than you intend to measure. Unless it's autoranging and auto sensing, which I doubt.

The heating element you linked to looks similar (in fact it looks like an Andreja element) but best you get yours out and measure it, because you don't want the tip exposed. They may have also used a stock photo, so you can ask them for the dimensions and wattage of the element. The old Andreja premium had a 1500W element. That doesn't mean a 1600W element won't work fine but as it's not a 1500W (unless the desc is wrong) it might be dimensionally different.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Cheers, thanks very much.

What I don't really understand though is why the pressure ramped up to 3+ bar if the element was blowing out. Normally something else would have stopped the element turning off. Do you think this is a double whammy where the pressurestat hasn't turned the element off and it's burned through? Probably a pressurestat replacement as well?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> Cheers, thanks very much.
> 
> What I don't really understand though is why the pressure ramped up to 3+ bar if the element was blowing out. Normally something else would have stopped the element turning off. Do you think this is a double whammy where the pressurestat hasn't turned the element off and it's burned through? Probably a pressurestat replacement as well?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


 It's always best to address one problem at a time....unless you are wealthy.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

True, but the last thing I want to do is put a new element in and have it blow again immediately because of an underlying problem with something else.

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

It's been a stressful few hours. Replaced the hi temp stat and pressurestat an no joy so I've now got a kitchen full of an exploded Andreja Premium!

The boiler is now out, element removed. No holes in it but testee again and still seeing infinite resistance through it.

Time or order another.

Photos to follow after I've descaled the boiler.

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm a bit confused with potential replacement elements.

The screw thread in my element is around 41-42mm. So i found this link to an element that says it has a 42mm outer thread but also calls this 1.25". Now 1.25" is definitely NOT 42mm.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heating-Element-Quick-Mill-Andreja-RA0980RE-1800W-230V-/401502024681&ved=2ahUKEwij1sPm3bjpAhWhTxUIHY2vCgoQjjgwAnoECAUQAg&usg=AOvVaw1IvwId0gdr8PjiTme_ZK-o

Then I look at Bella Barista who have a very similar looking element but they also say the thread is 1.25".

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/heating-element-1600w-230v.html

Are there really 2 places out there getting 42mm and 1.25" mixed up?

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Ah figured it out a 1.25" BSP thread is indeed 41.9mm.

I've learned something new today!

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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Don't forget a new gasket :good: Any signs of damage or over heating on the gicar ?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

The gasket looks fine to reuse to be honest. Cant see any signs of overheating on the gicar unit, all looks normal.

If you know where to get a gasket let me know, couldn't find anything on BB.

The whole thing has been very stressful, ordered a new element now and just got to wait until that comes to put it all back together. Just hope there's no leaks. I damaged the thread of the pipe that goes into the bottom of the boiler from the OPV (when I was strongarming the element out), I've wrapped it in ptfe and the connection has gone on fine with the olive squeezing in ok so hope it doesn't leak. I'm guessing on these connections the thread isn't the waterholding bit, its the seating of the olive in the fitting?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> The gasket looks fine to reuse to be honest. Cant see any signs of overheating on the gicar unit, all looks normal.
> 
> If you know where to get a gasket let me know, couldn't find anything on BB.
> 
> ...


 Ideally, elements should always be removed with an Impact gun, small 12V one will do....I say this more for others who need to change elements.. If there is no impact gun, trying to shock it off is better, applying lots of force might work but is risky, especially on copper boilers.

If you are talking about the standard type mushroom fittings on the bottom of the boiler, they should not have PTFE on them they are a compression style fitting, as long as you can get them tight they shouldn't leak. The old style mushroom ones did deform/harden over time and if put in excessively hard can proved difficult to seal again. Newer style types used by a few manufacturers are much better. So the PFFE is either doing nothing or preventing you snugging it down completely?

Hopefully you asked them for the actual element dimensions to check they matched yours closely enough?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I just put a wrench on it and shocked it with a big lump hammer a few times. It didnt move much at first but then suddenly came loose.

The fitting seems to be nipped up snug. Guess there's no real way of testing water tightness under pressure until it's up and running.

Checked the BB element. Its the same thread size and the projection into the boiler is slightly less than the one I'm taking out so hoping it's ok.

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

It's the fitting closest to the base of the boiler that I damaged the thread on.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Stripped out.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Nice clean boiler after descaling.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Infinite resistance on the old element.









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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Look's well cooked  . Have you removed the fill probe and cleaned it ? Top of the boiler looks as if it was well crudded.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> Look's well cooked. Have you removed the fill probe and cleaned it ? Top of the boiler looks as if it was well crudded.


I started pulling out the fill probe but then didn't want to damage anything so stopped pulling on it. I unscrewed the nut and pulled maybe 2cm out then it seemed pretty stuck. Do I just pull it right out?

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

If I wanted to replace this elbow (the one I damaged the thread on). Where would I get it from? Anyone know the dimensions and what supplier?









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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It will probably be OK, if it leaks remove Ptfe and try again.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The problem does not appear to be the elbow but the acute angle the pipe is leaving the fitting, not permitting the ' nipple' / olive to seat correctly.

What damage did you do to the elbow ? bend it or damage / bruise the thread ?

IF you need one you could try FERRARI espresso, you could also try for element gasket / seal.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> I started pulling out the fill probe but then didn't want to damage anything so stopped pulling on it. I unscrewed the nut and pulled maybe 2cm out then it seemed pretty stuck. Do I just pull it right out?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


 Unscrew the small silver nut completely then pull gently, if necassary with tape wrapped pliers on the 'teflon' insert. This will bring the rod and T/S both out.

You will probably find the lower section of the probe is quite scaled up, clean it up / replace.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> Infinite resistance on the old element.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 From how blackened the element is for entire length , temp going to 3 bar, and the POP which i suspect was the safety valve blowing I think it did boil DRY.

You need to find out why it did not cut off OR why the pump was not refilling.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> From how blackened the element is for entire length , temp going to 3 bar, and the POP which i suspect was the safety valve blowing I think it did boil DRY.
> You need to find out why it did not cut off OR why the pump was not refilling.


Yeah that's my worry. I put a new element in and that was just a symptom rather than the problem.

The water that came out while I was flushing the hot tap was literally black.

A few opposing theories from me:

1. The sudden flushing of water through the boiler dislodged a load of crap that blocked the pressurestat. Pressure stat then didn't turn the element off and it overheated and blew. Something tells me the element was already in a bad way though if the water coming out at the start of the flush was black.

2. The fill level probe got covered in a load of gunk and couldnt short to earth when the water level rose. Boiler overfilled, pressure and temperature got way too high and burned the element out. I would have thought though that a working pressurestat should still stop an overfull boiler overheating?

3. A short through the heating probe teflon sleeve convinces the boiler that it's already full and doesn't pump any more water in. Boiler gets lower and lower, element overheats very quickly and pops.

To solve all 3, I'm guessing a new element, new pressurestat and new heating probe may sort it?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just a little tip, Limit stats don't tend to do work on a boiler that's pretty much boiled dry, or at least with water down to the legs of the heating element (usually the "legs" don't actually get hot). The exception is the limit stats screwed into the base of heating elements, trouble is, by the time they go, the heating element is usually shot in a boil dry situation.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> 1. The sudden flushing of water through the boiler dislodged a load of crap that blocked the pressurestat. Pressure stat then didn't turn the element off and it overheated and blew. Something tells me the element was already in a bad way though if the water coming out at the start of the flush was black.
> 
> 2. The fill level probe got covered in a load of gunk and couldnt short to earth when the water level rose. Boiler overfilled, pressure and temperature got way too high and burned the element out. I would have thought though that a working pressurestat should still stop an overfull boiler overheating?
> 
> ...


 Either number 3 or a gicar/giemmie box fault.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Either number 3 or a gicar/giemmie box fault.


Is there a way of checking the fill probe on number 3 with a multimeter?

Anyway of checking the Gicar box?

Something definitely wrong with the fill mechanism I think because I tipped a fair bit of water out of the boiler with the dead element and when I power it up, the pump doesn't try to refill the boiler. I thought this may because of the dead element but I don't think this is connected.

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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

You could check between the terminal of the probe and boiler case (probe in position) This should read 0 or 1 = no circuit = probe insulated from boiler = correct.

Remove probe and teflon support / seal (a tube with a shoulder) check for crack or damage .

DO NOT USE RESISTANCE TEST on gicar.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Photo of the elbow I damaged.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Another photo of the elbow. The sealing nipple still seems to pull in tight but I'll see if I can find anything on Ferrari to replace this.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Fill sensor immediately after removal. Can't see any damage to the teflon sleeve.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

No continuity between sensor and boiler.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Just took the fill solenoid off, are these pink marks normal?

I understand they dont make this solenoid anymore and I'd have to go for a parker one. Not sure if that messes up my plumbing or not?

Feel at the moment that I'm just randomly going through looking for things to replace!









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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Find out why the autofill isn't working right and that's your problem solved. I've not seen marks like that on a solenoid before but that doesn't mean it isn't working. Put some votlage across it and check the coil is pulling in. You can also check the resistance of the coil, it should *probably be* around 4-8 ohm, much lower and the coil could have shorted causing those marks?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> Find out why the autofill isn't working right and that's your problem solved. I've not seen marks like that on a solenoid before but that doesn't mean it isn't working. Put some votlage across it and check the coil is pulling in. You can also check the resistance of the coil, it should *probably be* around 4-8 ohm, much lower and the coil could have shorted causing those marks?


Just wired the boiler fill solenoid up to the earthed mains, when I fire it up I hear a decent loud click and when I then blow through the valve it blows freely. So all is fine with the solenoid. Pump was definitely fine because I could draw pressure through the grouphead.

So I'm guessing I'm left with:

1. Fill sensor (checked but could still be wrong). They're only cheap so will order another.

2. Gicar unit (seems odd that it would wait for me to start flushing through the boiler and then coincidentally fail). Don't want to order another of these until all else is checked.

3. Pressurestat and Hi Limit stat (already replaced), and doubt it was these anyway.

4. Some kind of short after the element died that was preventing the boiler from filling. Annoyingly, before I disconnected everything, I didn't disconnect the boiler element and try filling the boiler with a cold unconnected element.

Any other ideas?

Thanks for all your help on here guys, I really appreciate it.

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What's the resistance of the solenoid coil?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> What's the resistance of the solenoid coil?


I can only get a reading at 20k level and it reads 2.23. So thats 2230ohms I think?

But it works fine with mains power to it. Very clear and definite click. I cant blow anything through the pipe with no power and once powered up I can blow very easily through the pipe.

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Just had a look inside the Gicar. Looks very clean and tidy indeed. Can't see any blown components or anything.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Rear of the Gicar.









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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> I can only get a reading at 20k level and it reads 2.23. So thats 2230ohms I think?
> 
> But it works fine with mains power to it. Very clear and definite click. I cant blow anything through the pipe with no power and once powered up I can blow very easily through the pipe.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


 Yeah that sounds about right for 235v I was using a low voltage value.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

NJD1977 said:


> Just took the fill solenoid off, are these pink marks normal?
> 
> I understand they dont make this solenoid anymore and I'd have to go for a parker one. Not sure if that messes up my plumbing or not?
> 
> ...


 Burns from the coil because the solenoid was stuck (closed / partially closed ) ?? Strip / examine the valve ? Do either component smell burnt ?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> Burns from the coil because the solenoid was stuck (closed / partially closed ) ?? Strip / examine the valve ? Do either component smell burnt ?


I can't seem to get into the valve. It all seems sealed. Nothing smells burnt.

There doesn't seem much point though as it was working very well under 240v. I turned it on and off about 10 times and it clicked and opened the valve every time.










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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Call me lazy but I've decided to order a Gicar unit, found the one I needed on Amazon, brand new at £29. Also ordered a new SSR for £17 from RS Electronics just in case it's that.

Lazy I suppose in that I should try to fault check first and gradually solve this but after installing those I will have changed:

Gicar Unit £29
SSR £17
Pressure Stat £20
Hi Temp Stat £10
Boiler fill probe £8
Heating Element £40

£124 but then half the machine will be new kit that should then last a while. I suppose if I was to get it professionally fixed it would cost a lot more than that anyway. Knowing me it'll just be a shorted wire somewhere!!!!

Fingers crossed once the deliveries arrive I can get back to my espresso!

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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I bought a new depth sensor but it's longer than the original one.

Should I cut this down with a hacksaw to the same length as the original one? I presume it's just a stainless rod?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

They are made to be trimmed, cut it to close to what you want and fine tune by sliding in and out.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> They are made to be trimmed, cut it to close to what you want and fine tune by sliding in and out.


Ah great, I thought they might be. Cheers Dave.

I'm a bit skeptical of how these things hold water. I presume when you screw it in the teflon sleeve is compressed tight against the rod and forms the water tightness. I've never had any leaks here before but it's just an unusual detail to have a rod passing through a sleeve that manages to contain water.

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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

They seal very well-- DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN just nip it up. IF it leaks just nip a tech more. The pressure is on the seal NOT the end of the rod


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Guys, I'm struggling to find the right fitting to replace the one in the photo.

Is my andreja premium a 6mm metric OD copper tubing rather than an imperial measurement?

The screw thread into the boiler seems to be a 1/4" BSP thread.

Does this mean a 6mm to 1/4" compression elbow like this would work?

https://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/male-stud-elbow-5801/









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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

What are the O/A thread diameters ? Possibly3/8 " BSP. X 1/4 " BSP


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> What are the O/A thread diameters ? Possibly3/8 " BSP. X 1/4 " BSP


The outside threads on the old fitting are 1/4" and 1/8" BSP and the copper pipe fits inside the 1/8" section with a brass nipple. I'm fairly sure the pipe is 6mm metric.

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Clean up the thread and the one in the photo should be OK? As long as the internal part where the seal is made is not damaged, it should be fine. I have some elbows, but pretty sure they are 1/8 x 1/8....I'll go and check my spares box.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I'm a very happy boy. Found a specialist industrial pipe supplier in the middle or nowhere. Had to drive 40mins but found the exact same fitting.

The rebuild starts tomorrow!









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Not sure whether to be happy or sad.

It's all back together. Boiler fills well. Element fires on fine. Pressure good. All is fixed........except

Theres a tiny leak from the heating element gasket......which means the whole bastard thing has to come out again.

Any tips on the heating gasket? Is PTFE tape worth it around the threads? A bit of sanding around where the gasket mates with the boiler? A good bit of knocking the valve tight with a hammer?

Sort of tempted to buy an impact wrench and socket and try to fix it from beneath but there's no guarantee that'll work.

Saturday job!

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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Because of the reduction where the thread meets the flange on the element, unless you take care to keep the seal centred it moves to the side and only seals on the edge.

Remove element and centre the seal and check that it does not move as you tighten it up.

It does not require PTFE on the threaded section BUT a couple of turns help as lubrication of the thread.

PS Also check there are no rough spots or edges on the boiler or flange.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Cheers Frank, you're right, it was off centre and more of the gasket had squeezed on one side than the other.

Given the copper a really good clean and a light sand around the mating surface.

Hope people don't mind me sharing these photos, hopefully it will help people in the future.









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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

In order to securely tighten the element without deforming the boiler wall.

Wrap a belt/ strap around the bottom of the boiler where the base meets the side. Wrap this in opposition to the tightening action, grip the end of the belt and use as counter to spanner to apply torque


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## Jonba (Aug 28, 2016)

Is that a proper type drain valve or just a sump plug at the bottom of your boiler. Just being nosy


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Jonba said:


> Is that a proper type drain valve or just a sump plug at the bottom of your boiler. Just being nosy


I'm not sure what a proper one looks like. This is just a plug with an allen key socket in the middle. I've not actually used it yet though, I've just taken the boiler out full and then tipped it out from above.

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## Jonba (Aug 28, 2016)

@DavecUK would know at a guess what better type valve could fitted.Would make flushing cleaning much easier.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

She's all back together, all working and leak free!!!

Just got to set the OPV and pressurestat levels then get the case back on and its then polishing time.

Thanks for all your help in this thread Dave and Frank, it's very much appreciated.

Final polished photos later today!

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Jonba said:


> @DavecUK would know at a guess what better type valve could fitted.Would make flushing cleaning much easier.


 Probably a ball valve with *teflon* seat, or butterfly drain valve/similar. As long as it's small and can stand the temperature.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

All polished up, back in place and warming up ready for her first shot.

New:
Gicar Controller
SSR Relay
Pressure Stat
Hi Temp Stat
Element
Water probe sensor
Gaskets

It's been stressful but incredibly rewarding to get it back working. Feel like I know the inside of that machine like the back of my hand now.









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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Maybe a problem, not sure though.

Every 10-15mins or so my pump kicks in for a couple of seconds when the machine is just left idling. I've double checked for leaks and there's definitely nothing leaking so I can only assume water is returning to the reservoir tank via an overflow and then topping back up via the pump.

Is this supposed to happen? I don't remember it happening before the repair.

Guessing it could be the anti vac valve leaking a bit back to the reservoir which drops the water a bit and the pump then kicks in for a short top up.

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

No, it's not supposed to happen.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Hmmm, strange. When I pull the OPV return pipe out of the water tank and just leave it discharging into the tank from above wirhout being submerged the problem completely stops.

It seems like havig the return pipe submerged is creating some sort of weird syphon effect where water is being drawn through the heat exhanger and then topped back up again.

Still not sure what the problem is but if pulling the return pipe out of being submerged fixes it, do I just leave it at that?

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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

OPV not seating correctly. / damage to seal or seat ? = allowing syphon action ?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> OPV not seating correctly. / damage to seal or seat ? = allowing syphon action ?


I guess that's all it can be. I did adjust the OPV when rebuilding as it was slightly high before this whole problem. Maybe that's just loosened something?

It seems weird though that breaking the water connection between the pipes is enough to stop it. Must be a tiny leak if it needs the siphon effect to make it leak?

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

If you don't sort it, you might start to bleed air into the brew boiler each night!


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Took the OPV out, stripped it down, descaled it in boiling water and gave it a good toothbrushing. Been on for 30mins so far and no sign of the syphoning happening.

When I was setting the OPV again it seemed to give a more stable reading on the pressure gauge so I think it just wasn't quite sealing correctly on the rubber before, maybe a bit of scale or crap just blocking it.

Anti vac valve line seems to be losing a tiny bit of air back to the drip tray but can't be arsed sorting that now.....that's next weekends job!

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