# To Back Flush or Not To Back Flush - That is the Question!



## nordberg (Jul 23, 2013)

As title really. I regularly descale but I've yet to back flush my 2013 Classic. If so, can anyone give me some pointers? I have the blank filter for back flushing....


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I say back flushing is very important.

get your self a canister of Urnex Cafiza

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Urnex-Cafiza-2-Coffee-Cleaning-Powder-900-g-New-/141781741519?hash=item2102d9afcf


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

God yes! I'm shocked that anybody could think otherwise.


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

Try it and look at the colour of what comes out. No further argument required.

That said, my own is overdue.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Yikes! Not since 2013 suggests a cake party awaits. Not only back flushing but take the screen off about monthly to give a thorough clean down. If it gets too caked on all shots will taste bitter and basically the same. I back flush with water at the end of each day, cafiza once a month.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I lurve back flushing ... It's therapeutic on a whole new level, ahhh the cleansing pshhhhht ..... I wonder if there is a way of back flushing ones self that doesn't involve poking something up your bum


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## nordberg (Jul 23, 2013)

Ok. I've got Puly Caff - any good?

Any tips on how to perform the back flush??


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Puly Caff is just fine. (Unless somebody knows something about not using it in this particular machine.) But stick to the recommended quantity as it is quite aggressive. I'm sure others will be along to give you detailed instructions for your machine.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Going over board and performing chemical back flushing 'too' often isn't recommended. Non-chemical backflushing (using water only) is fine. Also, some suggest lubing the cams after a chemical backflush.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

No cams on a Classic, that you can access. I chem backflush weekly. Makes a big difference to flavours.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Missed that nordberg mentioned having a Classic. Scrub reference to lubing cams in that case as Spazbarista pointed out, it doesn't have any!


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## nordberg (Jul 23, 2013)

Thanks all. Back flush and descale duly carried out.

Looking forward to tomorrow's coffee even more than normal now!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Just asking, is the puly caff you have specifically for back flushing? I think you can get two different types and the descaling one shouldnt be used for back flushing.

I back flush with water after each session, so thats twice a day and use the cafiza once a week.

I dont like having to sink the first shot after using the cafiza though but it has to be done, I hate wasting my beans


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## Lawman (Jul 26, 2013)

I was just think about posting the same question. Just as well my order of puly has just arrived.


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## pirate (Mar 22, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Just asking, is the puly caff you have specifically for back flushing? I think you can get two different types and the descaling one shouldnt be used for back flushing.
> 
> I back flush with water after each session, so thats twice a day and use the cafiza once a week.
> 
> I dont like having to sink the first shot after using the cafiza though but it has to be done, I hate wasting my beans


I didn't know you had to get rid of first shot 

Learn something knew every day


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

pirate said:


> I didn't know you had to get rid of first shot
> 
> Learn something knew every day


You do not have to bin the first shot. Once you have backlashed with chemicals you do the same with water. If you do it enough, then all you need to do is put a shot glass under and collect some. Dip a finger in and rub it with the thumb and if it feels viscous do it more. Then taste it. You are going to make coffee with the same water!


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## pirate (Mar 22, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> You do not have to bin the first shot. Once you have backlashed with chemicals you do the same with water. If you do it enough, then all you need to do is put a shot glass under and collect some. Dip a finger in and rub it with the thumb and if it feels viscous do it more. Then taste it. You are going to make coffee with the same water!


Ah right. I'm with you. I've been flushing with water afterwards, but haven't done the finger thumb method. ?


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I have backflushed my Classic in the past with Caviza, but recently I had my machine serviced at my local Gaggia service centre and got talking to a couple of their service engineers and they said a resounding no, no to chemical backflushing as it could potentially force any particles of crap further into the machine. They said to put a sachet of Puly machine cleaner into the water tank and half fill it with warm water so the crystals were full dissolved. Take off the dispersion plate and shower screen. Give them a soak in a separate bowl with some cleaner in. For the machine itself they recommended switching on the pump and flushing some of the solution through the machine then switch it off for 20 mins while the solution goes to work inside the machine. After that continue to flush more of the solution through the machine (they recommended a cup full) then switch it off for a further 5 mins. Continue doing this until all the solution is gone. Wash the water tank thoroughly and fill with fresh clean water and purge it through the whole system including the steam wand until all the residue of the cleaner is gone. Rinse the dispersion plate and shower screen and re-assemble. Brew a coffee and throw away then you are good to go again. Maybe a bit long winded, but it may save any unnecessary damage to the delicate internals of your machine. I have owned my Classic for 6 years and it has had a shed load of coffee through it in this time and with a little bit of maintenance it should serve me for a good few years to come.


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## JAA (Oct 13, 2015)

Some good maintenance advice. Thanks.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I dont like having to sink the first shot after using the cafiza though but it has to be done, I hate wasting my beans





dfk41 said:


> You do not have to bin the first shot.


Im going by the instructions on the back of the container.

Maybe you can tell me what is going on in figure 5 that im interpreting incorrectly as binning the first shot?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Im going by the instructions on the back of the container.
> 
> Maybe you can tell me what is going on in figure 5 that im interpreting incorrectly as binning the first shot?
> 
> View attachment 17109


Trust your taste buds! I used to be a Publican. We used to clean the lines every week which meant using stuff a lot stronger than cafiza or the likes. After flushing through, at some point you have to taste it before connecting the beer line back up. You run it between finger and thumb and if it feels silky, pull more water through. You taste it, if it tastes good then bang!

Question.....if you have not pulled anything like enough water through, and as they say, you make a coffee and it is shite, what do you do next....make another one and hope..?


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Finger + tongue test is very sensitive (!): You can easily determine if any descaler or cleaner is in the final flushing waters.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

I just unscrew the screen and soak that in pulycaff with my portafilter every week, give the grouphead lump a bit of a scrub at same time. With doing this, I just don't see the point of backflushing - surely it's not doing anything more than getting a bit of crap out from behind the screen?


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

What is a "backflush"?


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

sjenner said:


> What is a "backflush"?


It's when you've washed your hair in the shower and you turn around to clean the suds from your back I think.

Ian


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Eyedee said:


> It's when you've washed your hair in the shower and you turn around to clean the suds from your back I think.
> 
> Ian












I was just being a little devil... Lever owners don't backflush!


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

Grahamg said:


> I just unscrew the screen and soak that in pulycaff with my portafilter every week, give the grouphead lump a bit of a scrub at same time. With doing this, I just don't see the point of backflushing - surely it's not doing anything more than getting a bit of crap out from behind the screen?


You may find that coffee residue makes its way to the gap under the dispersion plate and through the solenoid valve. Although it usually takes a few years to be an issue, cleaning behind the metal lump and preventing the solenoid valve jamming are all worthwhile!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Grahamg said:


> I just unscrew the screen and soak that in pulycaff with my portafilter every week, give the grouphead lump a bit of a scrub at same time. With doing this, I just don't see the point of backflushing - surely it's not doing anything more than getting a bit of crap out from behind the screen?





timmyjj21 said:


> You may find that coffee residue makes its way to the gap under the dispersion plate and through the solenoid valve. Although it usually takes a few years to be an issue, cleaning behind the metal lump and preventing the solenoid valve jamming are all worthwhile!


It might be interesting if you do those things and then backflush with just water and see if anything comes out + do those things and backflush with a chemical and see (after some interim use I mean). If nothing comes out maybe you're ok but it seems to be accepted wisdom and manufacturer backed to backflush on a certain schedule (which I know is no guarantee) so hopefully it has some validity.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

sjenner said:


> I was just being a little devil... Lever owners don't backflush!


I kind of wished we did .... the odd backlash would be preferable to the continual fear of a 30000deg/c sneeze of molten lava grinds







... if ever I make my own lever machine I am fitting a manual 3way valve so at the end of a pull you can hit a button and it vents any built up pressure safely out the back of the machine .. it could be an Air Relief Safety Evacuation Valve .... or ARSE valve for short ....... swap that sneeze a big lever fart


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

If someone doesnt want to backflush their classic then they will be familiar at some stage in the future with reduced flow issues.(if they keep the machine long enough) even backflushing with the powder doesnt guarantee it wont happen, but then you know you are doing all you can to prevent it.


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