# Newbie advice on equipment for making Flat Whites?



## LFletcher (Jan 30, 2014)

Hi,

The wife loves flat whites and having already purchased a Nespresso machine a few years ago which has hardly been used as she didn't like the coffee it made, it might be time to upgrade to something better.

I've had a quick search of the forums and it appears the key to making a good flat white at home is a good grinder and a machine that can make decent microfoam.

I've seen a number of recommendations for machines, like the Rocket Evoluzione, Rancilio Silvia and Fracino Cherub. Along with some grinder recommendations for the mazzer mini and the mazzer super jolly.

Being a coffee making virgin I'm not keen to spend a fortune on something which may not get used that much if I can't produce a decent coffee. I believe the cheapest combo of the items above is likely to cost close to £1000, but ideally I'd like to spend somewhere close to £500 for the pair and potentially upgrade to something better at a later date.

Based on the above does anyone have any recommendations of which coffee machine and grinder would be worth investigating?

Thanks


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

get a used commercial grinder and a gaggia classic as a starter system, shouldnt cost you ore than £400 leaving £100 for accessories that will last you a life time.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I can only add my suggestion to follow my learned friend's advice. I upgraded to a used commercial grinder after an Iberital MC2 with my Classic last year and couldn't believe the difference in taste of the coffee I was now making, and should you decide to upgrade from the Classic you should get the same back as you paid for it and the grinder will stand you a few upgrades

One suggestion I will make is to buy yourself a used Gaggia Classic from the for sale ads on here, you then know it will have been looked after and then pm Coffeechap as he sells some refurbished, and serviced in as new condition used commercial grinders.

Some people may moan about the Classic and yes they have their limitations particularly if you need to make a lot of milk based drinks at once, but it will teach you a lot about making espresso, which then stands you in good stead for your next step.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

When you get a good shot out the Classic it's bloody brilliant. Can just be a bit tricky to do consistently.


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## mambro (Dec 7, 2013)

Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2. You easily find the first second hand for around 130£ and the second, still second hand for around 110£.

Then you can get all the accessories brand new: a Motta 58mm Tamper for 15£ a good milk jug for around 10-15£, cleaning tools for around 20£ and you can think about investing 25£ for a rancilio silva steam wand


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> When you get a good shot out the Classic it's bloody brilliant. Can just be a bit tricky to do consistently.


But when you can do that consistently it's when you know it's time for a new machine lol.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Haha that's so right. It's what I done. Got sick of great shots so decided to upgrade and start from scratch with a HX machine!!!!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Jason1wood said:


> Haha that's so right. It's what I done. Got sick of great shots so decided to upgrade and start from scratch with a HX machine!!!!


Well that's how I knew I needed to get myself a new machine, which prior to the Sage deal, which only a moron would have turned down, was planned for April and would have been an Oscar most likely as I don't have the room for a Heavenly or a Cherub, much less a 1 group commercial. Depth being the limiting factor in my tiny galley style kitchen. I did find that in the end simplicity and consistency of prep along with leaving the Classic switched on all day( got to love gas and electricity being included in the rent lol) were the keys to making a great shot on the Classic as well as having a good grinder and good beans.


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## LFletcher (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks for all of the responses.

I've seen the Gaggia Classic for £180 new, which seems a good deal.

I've also seen a Rancilio Silvia V3 for £369. For the extra £190 am I likely to see much difference and would the Rancilio make it any easier to achieve a better flat white? I've noticed that quite a few people upgrade the steam wand on the Classic to the one from the Rancilio.

I assume coffeechap is the person to speak to with regards to a used commercial grinder?

On to the accessories. So I need the following;

Tamper - Motta 58mm Tamper

Milk Jug - I've seen a normal milk jug and a foaming one. I assume a foaming one is more appropriate for a flat white.

Do I need anything else like a thermometer, filter basket, portafilter?

Are there any specific cleaning tools I need?

Thanks again for your help


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

LFletcher said:


> Thanks for all of the responses.
> 
> I've seen the Gaggia Classic for £180 new, which seems a good deal.
> 
> ...


Others will chip in am sure but for starters;

Go for the gaggia (I had one) apparently more forgiving than the Silvia and much cheaper. Most people upgrade the classic steam wand which is a very cheap and simple mod. I would look on the forums on hear for a classic as will be much cheaper and come up very often. (you need 8 posts I think to post in there though!)

Coffeechap is the man for grinders that's for sure.

Milk jug go for something like this http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/motta-milk-foaming-jug-europa-350ml/prod_1804.html?category=491

don't need a 'special' foaming jug

A tamper 58mm depending if using VST baskets you may want larger

Brush for grinder

You can get a thermometer but I use temptags much easier

Will need cafiza and a blind basket for back flushing

A brush for cleaning the group http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/cleaning-filtration/espresso-cleaning-products/pallo-coffee-tool

loads more you can buy but you wont NEED it and at least not straight away!


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## LFletcher (Jan 30, 2014)

Thanks for the input.

Anyone have anything else to add with regards to Gaggia vs Silva?

Also any other suggestions for accessories/cleaning tools?

Thanks


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

The portafilter will come with the machine, as will basic baskets. If you get a new Gaggia its likely to come with crema "enhancing" pressurised baskets - get rid of these and get some non pressurised ones. If you want to get a huge triple basket you will probably need a bottomless/naked portafilter to enable it to fit.

I don't think anyone has mentioned scales, but certainly to start with measuring weight of input (beans) and output (coffee liquid) is a must.

A tamping mat will stop you messing up your work surfaces and a tray to put the grinder on will stop escaped grounds getting everywhere.

Chemicals- pulycaff or cafiza to "decaffinate" when backwashing, Grindz to clean the grinder, descaler


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Dr Steve said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned scales, but certainly to start with measuring weight of input (beans) and output (coffee liquid) is a must.


Give that man a gold star!!Well spotted yes scales are vital just get a set off ebay jewellery scales are good something like these

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-300g-x-0-01g-Mini-Digital-Scale-Jewelry-Pocket-Gram-LCD-UK-/181168248008?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item2a2e7814c8


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

and if you're concerned about aluminium and alzheimers a brass dispersion plate is a good plan too - see Charlie's thread in gaggia forum- you can also get baskets and cleaning chemicals at a reasonable discount too if you are quick, because i think he is closing the group buy today


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

The evidence for aluminium oxide from a plate and Alzheimer's isn't very strong. The wariness I understand but reminds me of all the autism and metal links a few years ago. Staying socially connected in a community has stronger evidence as an inverse link.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

oracleoftruth said:


> The evidence for aluminium oxide from a plate and Alzheimer's isn't very strong. The wariness I understand but reminds me of all the autism and metal links a few years ago. Staying socially connected in a community has stronger evidence as an inverse link.


I agree here you only need to look at the vaccination/autism scandal and the current rise in measles etc to know that sometimes such a connected world can do a little harm.

That said the brass dispersion plates do offer other benefits such as higher thermal mass so should help a bit on temp stability and they won't go black when soaked in a cleaning solution or backflushed so should keep the coffee tasting better.


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## LFletcher (Jan 30, 2014)

Once again, thanks for everyone that has responded.

I've ordered a Gaggia, now just need to sort out all the accessories.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

LFletcher said:


> Once again, thanks for everyone that has responded.
> 
> I've ordered a Gaggia, now just need to sort out all the accessories.


Well done they are great little machines.

By accessories I assume you mean GRINDER







have you sorted one?


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## LFletcher (Jan 30, 2014)

kikapu said:
 

> By accessories I assume you mean GRINDER
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do need to sort out the grinder (need to pm coffeechap), but was planning on sorting out the other things first today (scales, tamper, etc).

After all that, I'll then need to work out how to use it all!


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

If you have bought a new classic will need a non-pressurised basket to use if you want to make proper espresso only a few quid or go for a VST but these are £22.

PM him otherwise you will have a lovely new machine and putting pre-ground coffee in it!!


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