# Gaggia Classic quiz



## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Why don't we make an ongoing Gaggia Classic quiz, shall we?

First question: Why did I upload these photos?

Please add your interesting questions too.


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## Timmyboy (May 31, 2020)

To keep the bottomless handle level for easer tamping level


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Timmyboy said:


> To keep the bottomless handle level for easer tamping level


 Thanks for the first guess.

No, I'm afraid that's not the answer.

Hint: Ignore the filter basket, it's only in place to keep the portafilter straight, otherwise it did look quite funny.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

My guess: You uploaded this photo to show us that the Gaggia PF lugs are not at 9-3 o'clock like the E61 ones?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My guess: You uploaded this photo to show us that the Gaggia PF lugs are not at 9-3 o'clock like the E61 ones?


 Good idea, but it's not the reason.

Hint2: Where can you buy identical bottomless portafilter from?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Hint3:

No it's nothing about anti-gravity in my workshop 🤣 I have no clue why is it doing this, it is the right way up on my phone


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Well, it's an original portafilter cut down to bottomless, and the cheaper oval handled one... however, despite being obviously used, the chroming is in great condition and the lugs aren't worn.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

allikat said:


> Well, it's an original portafilter cut down to bottomless, and the cheaper oval handled one... however, despite being obviously used, the chroming is in great condition and the lugs aren't worn.


 Wow, I'm really impressed.

Well done.

Only 2 corrections if you don't mind:

1/ Not cut down but cut out with a 60mm holesaw.

2/ I would call it the latest handle, rather then the cheapest 🤣

PS: Old prtafilters needed 🤣 even with snapped bolt (video to come soon on how to heal that issue, with much less pain as you would normally have to have)

Also hefty gaggia portafilter keyrings for sale 🤣


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Anyone else having a question, or shall I post the next one?


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Next!


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

What are the parameters of the bolts securing the boiler to the group head?

Like: M2.9*9mm pozi pan head stainless steel.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

FairRecycler said:


> What are the parameters of the bolts securing the boiler to the group head?
> 
> Like: M2.9*9mm pozi pan head stainless steel.


 They are caphead with 4/5mm hex so I'll say 5mm and are M5 threads not stainless? But zinc plated? Oh and 20mm long?


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

I'd say M5x12 stainless steel Allen bolts


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Not far out, only half an inch away, these are the OPV and solenoid bolts, however you won't find stainless steel bolts in there from the factory, but galvanised ones.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

@Uncletits is close, per the part sheet:

VITE M 6X12 INOX 6X12 S.S. SCREW

Yes, I cheated, and looked up the parts list 😛

The M5x12 is the ones that hold the OPV and solenoid on.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

allikat said:


> Yes, I cheated, and looked up the parts list 😛
> 
> The M5x12 is the ones that hold the OPV and solenoid


 Sorry to say, but I would suggest to scrap that parts list. It's not the right one.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

allikat said:


> @Uncletits is close, per the part sheet:
> 
> VITE M 6X12 INOX 6X12 S.S. SCREW
> 
> ...


 The thickness of the boiler mating plate is 9.0-8.7mm, so 12mm wouldn't be sufficient. On the other hand it's funny they suggesting Inox/ss, why are they not fitting those than?


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Doh! Was looking at the wrong bolts... having just replaced my distribution plate, I was fixated on the bolts for that...

M6x16 galvanised (as OEM)


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

allikat said:


> Doh! Was looking at the wrong bolts... having just replaced my distribution plate, I was fixated on the bolts for that...
> 
> M6x16 galvanised (as OEM)


 Correct 

M6*16mm galvanised socket head Allen bolts

Yes the parts list was right on the distribution plate bolts, those SS from the factory.

It's your turn now to ask.

As it was the 2nd right answer of yours, I'm happy to send you a full kit of o rings as a prize, but only if you would possibly need it in the future (sorry I hate to waste).


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Ok, what is the rating for the stock thermal fuse in Gaggia machines?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

allikat said:


> Ok, what is the rating for the stock thermal fuse in Gaggia machines?


 That's a good one, I'll keep my mouth shut, to let others getting involved.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

FairRecycler said:


> As it was the 2nd right answer of yours, I'm happy to send you a full kit of o rings as a prize, but only if you would possibly need it in the future (sorry I hate to waste).


 I'm happy to offer the same prize for anyone with 2 good answers in a row. (No group head seal included, but the o rings)


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

allikat said:


> Ok, what is the rating for the stock thermal fuse in Gaggia machines?


 It's too cold and wet to go and check the pack I just ordered.....


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

allikat said:


> Ok, what is the rating for the stock thermal fuse in Gaggia machines?


 Pretty sure it's 184 or 187C. I had to replace one not long ago.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Steve_M said:


> Pretty sure it's 184 or 187C. I had to replace one not long ago.


 Sorry, I can only accept your first answer... which is the right one!


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Congratulations @Steve_M

Do you have a question for us?


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

allikat said:


> Doh! Was looking at the wrong bolts... having just replaced my distribution plate, I was fixated on the bolts for that...
> 
> M6x16 galvanised (as OEM)


 In theory galvanised bolts should be a better option than stainless steel when it comes to fitting the dissimilar metals, aluminium to stainless steel, due to their positioning on the galvanic scale.

The problem arises where the cheaper option of zinc galvanising is electro galvanising that leaves a thinner coating of zinc on the steel that is prone to corrosion due to its poorer coating. The better option is hot dipping where the steel bolt is fully submerged in a bath of molten zinc.

Electro galvanised bolts are cheaper than hot dipped bolts!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

FairRecycler said:


> Good idea, but it's not the reason.
> 
> Hint2: Where can you buy identical bottomless portafilter from?


 So this hint2 threw me off. I was going to say that it was an original one just sawed off. But you said where can you buy identical ones from? Well, you can't. Unless we buy it from you? 🤔😉


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So this hint2 threw me off. I was going to say that it was an original one just sawed off. But you said where can you buy identical ones from? Well, you can't. Unless we buy it from you? 🤔😉


 Sorry for misleading you with that, I wanted to highlight the difference between this and the ones available on the market.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

ratty said:


> In theory galvanised bolts should be a better option than stainless steel when it comes to fitting the dissimilar metals, aluminium to stainless steel, due to their positioning on the galvanic scale.
> 
> The problem arises where the cheaper option of zinc galvanising is electro galvanising that leaves a thinner coating of zinc on the steel that is prone to corrosion due to its poorer coating. The better option is hot dipping where the steel bolt is fully submerged in a bath of molten zinc.
> 
> Electro galvanised bolts are cheaper than hot dipped bolts!


 Thank you for this very useful information. It's perfect timing too, I was just about to replenish these bolts. Now I'll look for the hot dipped option.

In my experience the original bolts doing very well until the o ring fails and water exposure steps in.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Next one:

How many self tapping screws are in a pre 2015 Classic?


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

Four if only two on lid. Older models have four on lid

Two on the metal pump support.

So answer is four or six


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Two holding funnel to body, two under metal lid holding it to funnel, sometimes two holding metal lid to body, two holding pump. So either six or eight.

Are we counting the two in the plug?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

No, we are not counting those in the plug 🤣

@Norvin you right, 6 or 8.

Do you have another one for us?

Sorry if it wasn't the clearest question, I forgot about those older ones.

Sorry @rattyyou missed the tiny ones, securing the top plate to the funnel.


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

FairRecycler said:


> No, we are not counting those in the plug 🤣
> 
> @Norvin you right, 6 or 8.
> 
> ...


 Just thought that there may be four more holding the feet on.

What is the thread of the nut holding down the solenoid coil (caveat, I've just measured the nut on an old large bodied valve in my spares box)?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Norvin said:


> Just thought that there may be four more holding the feet on.


 No screws there 

I'm not going to measure it but rather guess. M8?


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

FairRecycler said:


> No screws there
> 
> I'm not going to measure it but rather guess. M8?


 it was just a thought. I don't currently have a Classic, the feet on the OWC are stuck on, the feet on an old Baby are held on with machine screws.

Nope, not M8.


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

FairRecycler said:


> Congratulations @Steve_M
> 
> Do you have a question for us?


 Here ya go:

On the Classic, the brew light turns ON when the boiler has reached temp, and OFF when the boiler heating elements are on. Why?

Hint: The mains voltage to the brew light is always present.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Are you asking why (why did they design it that way) or how (how is that function achieved)?

I cannot think of a question, so daren't even offer an answer.


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

AndyDClements said:


> Are you asking why (why did they design it that way) or how (how is that function achieved)?
> 
> I cannot think of a question, so daren't even offer an answer.


 Asking how that function is achieved. One would assume that a lamp would turn on when power is present, and turn off when power is removed.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Unless the other side of the lamp is the one that's not permanent........ so it's a switched negative (or as it's mains switched Neutral). achieved by the absence of a Live feed once the brew stat cuts power to the boiler element.


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

AndyDClements said:


> Unless the other side of the lamp is the one that's not permanent........ so it's a switched negative (or as it's mains switched Neutral). achieved by the absence of a Live feed once the brew stat cuts power to the boiler element.


 The brew light always has power going to it. The only way to cut power to the brew light is to turn the machine off. See the diagram below.

In the diagram below, the lamp ( 11 ) would be off until the coffee thermostat ( 4 ) opened the circuit once it reached temperature, removing power to the boiler ( 6 ) and then the lamp ( 11 ) would turn on.

You're on the correct path that it has to do with the coffee and/or steam thermostat providing power to the boiler element, but when the power is applied to the boiler element, the lamp turns off.

Hint #2 - The type of lamp matters here. It's not an incandescent or LED bulb.


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

I'll let somebody else think about Neons and how they operate.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

@Steve_M

It is still unclear to me, to be honest. The machines I've seen so far (approx 50) work the other way round and the indicator light is on when the element is. However due to an unknown reason in some cases, after my complete rebuild, they started to work inverted (so as you described). I surely haven't swapped the polarity.

My knowledge is very limited here, I think the elements act as a kind of ballast, however I've been told these are misleadingly called neon bulbs (know as GLIMM bulbs in Europe) as they work in a different principal.

To cut it short, I have no clue 😂


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

We still have an other live question:



Norvin said:


> What is the thread of the nut holding down the solenoid coil (caveat, I've just measured the nut on an old large bodied valve in my spares box)?


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

FairRecycler said:


> To cut it short, I have no clue 😂


 At first this was a head scratcher for me when I realized what was happening. My guess is that @AndyDClements probably knows the answer.

The brew light comes on when the boiler is off, as neon lamps require high voltage ( remember, it's always connected ) but very little current. When the boiler is on, the current running through the elements is basically shorting out the neon lamp causing it to go out. When the tstat opens the circuit to kill power to the element, the lamp turns back on. Neon lamps also have no problems running on either 120 or 240v, so it's 1 less region specific part they would need to source, depending on where the machine ends up.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

FairRecycler said:


> @Steve_M
> It is still unclear to me, to be honest. The machines I've seen so far (approx 50) work the other way round and the indicator light is on when the element is. However due to an unknown reason in some cases, after my complete rebuild, they started to work inverted (so as you described). I surely haven't swapped the polarity.
> My knowledge is very limited here, I think the elements act as a kind of ballast, however I've been told these are misleadingly called neon bulbs (know as GLIMM bulbs in Europe) as they work in a different principal.
> To cut it short, I have no clue


Every Classic I've ever seen, and the design of them, is that the neon "brew ready" light comes on when the thermostat cuts off - and hence the light is on when power isn't being applied to the boiler and vice versa. I've never seen one where the neon comes on when power goes to the elements.

Concerning the operation of it : my assumption was that the ballast resistance of the neon is significantly higher than the resistance of the elements - so when the elements have power the neon voltage drops to less than the firing / maintaining voltage of the neon and hence it goes out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Neon (which give red light and lamps of the same type but with other gasses- so different colour) require a fairy high voltage across their terminals. For the classic the diagram shows that the neon is between one side of the heating element (no 6) and the Live terminal. Keep in mind that electricity takes the path of least resistance, so when the two switches (brew stats are just thermally operated switches) are closed and so complete that bit of the circuit, the heating element is on, and the resistance of the neon light is much greater than the resistance of two closed switches, so electricity flows to the element via the switches and bypasses the neon. Get to the point that the appropriate switch opens (brew stat if the switch no 7 is set to brew) and suddenly that little path has infinite resistance, so the electricity flows through the neon.

Reality is that switches etc are not absolutely free of resistance, and electricity doesn't just flow one way or another depending on resistance, but the resistance of these things is so extreme that the tiny current going through the neon generates virtually zero current through the element, and the resistance across the switch does generate a tiny potential difference across them but nowhere near enough to illuminate a neon that you'd see it.


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Norvin said:


> What is the thread of the nut holding down the solenoid coil (caveat, I've just measured the nut on an old large bodied valve in my spares box)?


 Too difficult, eh?

Please study this photo carefully, it contains a subtle clue...


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Subtle? I bet if you posted the actual dimension of the outside of the thread it would confuse people if they compared that to the stamped figures. To be fair though, it doesn't tell us whether taper or straight.


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## phario (May 7, 2017)

I just want to cut in here to say this is such a great thread. Well done and carry on.

I would love to hear history questions from people who know the history of the Gaggia Classic (not me), in addition to mechanical ones. One could imagine a "Jeopardy" style game with "History", "Electrics", "Bits & Bobs", etc.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

AndyDClements said:


> To be fair though, it doesn't tell us whether taper or straight.


 It has to be straight in my opinion.

@MrShades @AndyDClements

Thank you for the explanation.


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Here's an easy one.

Which type is fitted to the Classic, and why?


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Norvin said:


> Here's an easy one.
> 
> Which type is fitted to the Classic, and why?
> 
> View attachment 49622


 The left hand side group.

It has the additional ports and thread for the 3-way valve, whereas the one on the right has just the water inlet and also the outlet valve which I guess is why the copper pipe is in the middle as its in line with that.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

I had a historical questions in mind, as I agree with @phario about the idea of versatile topics.

What's the importance of

Caffé Achille


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

FairRecycler said:


> Thank you for this very useful information. It's perfect timing too, I was just about to replenish these bolts. Now I'll look for the hot dipped option.
> 
> In my experience the original bolts doing very well until the o ring fails and water exposure steps in.


 The hot dipped bolts do look like a pile of sh*t! They are not clean and shiny looking.

I would still use them however as they cannot be seen holding the boiler to the head inside the machine.


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

It is the family cafe where Achille Gaggia worked, where he developed new methods to produce coffee. He patented the Lampo method using pressurised hot water rather than steam to produce espresso with a crema naturale there.

Apologies but I have to admit that I did have some help from my friend Gordon Oliver Ogle.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

BBBean said:


> It is the family cafe where Achille Gaggia worked, where he developed new methods to produce coffee. He patented the Lampo method using pressurised hot water rather than steam to produce espresso with a crema naturale there.
> 
> Apologies but I have to admit that I did have some help from my friend Gordon Oliver Ogle.


 Congratulations for Gordon and for you as well 

Do you have a question for us?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

ratty said:


> The hot dipped bolts do look like a pile of sh*t! They are not clean and shiny looking.
> 
> I would still use them however as they cannot be seen holding the boiler to the head inside the machine.


 It's easy, for showcases you use the electro-galvanised or stainless ones.


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

Ok so I thought you might like to play a game of spot the difference.


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)




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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

@BBBean

A: 




B:


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

Steve_M said:


> @BBBean
> 
> A:
> 
> ...


 That is such a good answer

 Wrong

But SO GOOD


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

A view from the other side might help.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

B is a standard single basket ? A is for ESE pod's


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

B should NEVER be used

A should NEVER EVER EVER EVER be used or even owned


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

@El carajillo you are absolutely correct so it's your turn?

as of course is @MrShades.

If you look carefully at the pictures you will see that A has never been used (well not for almost 13 years) and that B has hardly ever been used.

In my defence these came as part of the bundle with our Gaggia Classic, which was a Christmas present in 2007. The bundle also contained some of the ESE pods, hence initial usage until sample pods were gone. Attempts to use B were made until I learnt better.

I never really understood why the pods required their own baskets, presumably the slightly reduced number and shape of the holes was to restrict flow and increase pressure through the pod?


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

Sorry meant to add this is A and you can just about make out the "C" stamped on the inside


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

MrShades said:


> B should NEVER be used
> 
> A should NEVER EVER EVER EVER be used or even owned


 Never say never. This will probably get me excommunicated from the forum BUT i use one everyday 

My wife prefers a single I prefer a double. I am not into splitting shots and saving or throwing half away BUT. I find using the single dosed at 9 gms and a VST dosed at 18 gms I can obtain two 25 /30 sec pours without altering the grind. We are both happy with the coffee, what more can I say   :exit:


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

El carajillo said:


> Never say never. This will probably get me excommunicated from the forum BUT i use one everyday
> 
> My wife prefers a single I prefer a double. I am not into splitting shots and saving or throwing half away BUT. I find using the single dosed at 9 gms and a VST dosed at 18 gms I can obtain two 25 /30 sec pours without altering the grind. We are both happy with the coffee, what more can I say   :exit:


 LOL - it's not wrong to use one, they're just typically very hard to use and get a good consistent shot. If they work for you, or rather your wife, then great. My wife's the same - on the odd occasion that she drinks coffee she'd prefer a single and then she drowns it in gallons of milk... though I always give her a double and drown it in milk and she can hardly tell the difference.

I've got a complete collection of "IMS 'The Single'" baskets - supposed to be the dog's danglies of single baskets - and they're all crap as far as I'm concerned (but then again, I've not even tried to use one for years!).

Now, if you said you used ESE pods every day - that would be different... 😉


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## Simon Richardson (Apr 25, 2020)

BBBean said:


> @El carajillo you are absolutely correct so it's your turn?
> 
> as of course is @MrShades.
> 
> ...


 Thanks! I got three baskets with my second hand classic and never knew what the difference in these two single baskets was (not that I ever used them!)


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MrShades said:


> I've got a complete collection of "IMS 'The Single'" baskets - supposed to be the dog's danglies of single baskets - and they're all crap as far as I'm concerned


 Haha, same here. I don't know why, but I kept buying them in different sizes, but no luck here either. 😂


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

I have a question for the *Gaggia Tifosi.*

Where can you find the numbers 5 and 8 on the Classic?


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

Agentb said:


> Where can you find the numbers 5 and 8 on the Classic?


 My guess. 5 = right profile of the case. 8 = water funnel cover


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Steve_M said:


> My guess. 5 = right profile of the case. 8 = water funnel cover


 I looked at the water funnel cover for a minute thinking there is no 8 there - then it dawned on me. Good answer but not the one i had in mind!

Useful clue - they are small and very close to each other

Second clue. On black, but not on blue.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Agentb said:


> I looked at the water funnel cover for a minute thinking there is no 8 there - then it dawned on me. Good answer but not the one i had in mind!
> 
> Useful clue - they are small and very close to each other
> 
> Second clue. On black, but not on blue.


 Rough guess following the clues, does the original black group head seal/gasket says 58mm?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Norvin said:


> View attachment 49558
> 
> 
> Too difficult, eh?
> ...


 Just to follow up on this one, is it 1/8 BSPP then?


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

FairRecycler said:


> Rough guess following the clues, does the original black group head seal/gasket says 58mm?


 so so close!

Hint: It's not 58mm diameter.


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

There is always a 5 on the label 50hz but I don't think this is the answer. Is it the date stamps on the top of the boiler?


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

Ok another go. On black = on the original rubber seal at 8.5 mm not that I have seen any new ones?

No numbers on the blue Cafelat 9.5 mm seal ?.????


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

Sorry finger slip on iPad 8.5 mm thickness


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Agentb said:


> It's not 58mm diameter.


 Yes, fair point. I thought it refers to the 58mm group head size.


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

BBBean said:


> Sorry finger slip on iPad 8.5 mm thickness


 Yep we have a winner, some gasket talk here -> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/44977-group-head-gasket-seems-stiff-on-gaggia-classic/?tab=comments#comment-649782


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

FairRecycler said:


> Just to follow up on this one, is it 1/8 BSPP then?


 Yes, 1/8 BSP, parallel. At first I was surprised that the thread was used on a holding down nut, not what I was expecting, but I suppose that it is a hydraulic fitting.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Let me break the silence, with another historical one:

Which one was the first Gaggia model with identical chassis shape to the Classic?


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

I'm guessing the c. 1995 'Coffee'?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Not exactly, as the Classic launched in 1991, but I believe the model is correct. I was hoping, someone will know what year they released the first Coffee, it's surely not '95, as I have one from '84, identical to the Classic (apart from the steam knob being at the front and the switch is offset from the centre)


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

1991... Wow! Everyday is a school day. Got a pic?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

At least this is what Gaggia says


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MartinB said:


> 1991... Wow! Everyday is a school day. Got a pic?


 Just had a look on the shelf and found this from '94


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

FairRecycler said:


> Not exactly, as the Classic launched in 1991, but I believe the model is correct. I was hoping, someone will know what year they released the first Coffee, it's surely not '95, as I have one from '84, identical to the Classic (apart from the steam knob being at the front and the switch is offset from the centre)


 If you mean one of these









They were christened the OWC (Old White Coffee) by the now defunct Gaggia Users Group in order to distinguish them from other similar (lesser?) Gaggias. They were considered to be the precursers of the Classic. The body is similar to the later versions (to answer one of your questions); the filling funnel, lid, drainage tray and cover, and water tank are all the same as the later Classics.

The chap that I bought it from said that he had bought it in 1983. I think that mine is a very early version as its serial number is 3,101 and it has differences in the group head casting to the later OWCs.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Norvin said:


> If you mean one of these
> 
> View attachment 50009
> 
> ...


 Thank you for this valuable information.

Yes, I read about the OWC when I've bought mine, about a year ago, but unfortunately I couldn't find details about when Gaggia launched this model - just to add, buying this machine encouraged me to make the BoostBox, as I wanted to make this my everyday machine, obviously without making anything irreversible, it has never been re painted, and no signs of rust  )

Interestingly mine has a serial number 31180, the previous owner bought it from a roastery in London who had a collection of old Gaggias. Back in the time they asked Gaggia UK, to trace back on the serial number, which came back as a definite 06/1984 manufacturing date (when I was born  ).

If both mine and your dates are correct, we can assume they started to produce it between '82-'83


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Your OWC is the same fetching 70s/80s sludge brown colour as mine was. As mine was in such poor condition I didn't have any qualms at changing it.

Anyways, back to the quiz. I found this when looking for the OWC leaflet. Can you guess the year of printing by looking at the range of models displayed?


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## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

Norvin said:


> Your OWC is the same fetching 70s/80s sludge brown colour as mine was. As mine was in such poor condition I didn't have any qualms at changing it.
> 
> Anyways, back to the quiz. I found this when looking for the OWC leaflet. Can you guess the year of printing by looking at the range of models displayed?
> 
> View attachment 50032


 This looks like @Mulligrub's house!


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Uncletits said:


> This looks like @Mulligrub's house!


 Is it really??? That's very cool.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Norvin said:


> Your OWC is the same fetching 70s/80s sludge brown colour as mine was. As mine was in such poor condition I didn't have any qualms at changing it.
> 
> Anyways, back to the quiz. I found this when looking for the OWC leaflet. Can you guess the year of printing by looking at the range of models displayed?
> 
> View attachment 50032


 1993?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

ratty said:


> The hot dipped bolts do look like a pile of sh*t! They are not clean and shiny looking.
> 
> I would still use them however as they cannot be seen holding the boiler to the head inside the machine.


 Just to revisit this bolt question.

Has anyone ever had trouble loosening the M5 stainless bolts securing the group head to the chassis? I have never met with corrosion there, although that's a stainless to plated brass connection, or is it due to the lack of water exposure (normally) there, while other bolts are more prone to water exposure (boiler to group head and to steam valve, group head to OPV and solenoid)?

Or is it proving, the stainless steel bolts are a good choice?


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

Booklet is dated 2002.

The Baby is referred to inside as the Baby Millennium model but I couldn't think of a subtle clue.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Norvin said:


> Booklet is dated 2002.


 Which one was the latest model on the photo? I thought it was the The/Paros.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

FairRecycler said:


> Just to revisit this bolt question.
> 
> Has anyone ever had trouble loosening the M5 stainless bolts securing the group head to the chassis? I have never met with corrosion there, although that's a stainless to plated brass connection, or is it due to the lack of water exposure (normally) there, while other bolts are more prone to water exposure (boiler to group head and to steam valve, group head to OPV and solenoid)?
> 
> Or is it proving, the stainless steel bolts are a good choice?


 Stainless is a good choice if kept apart electrochemically from metals like brass, effectively kept dry, not wetted by water. This is usually achieved by using thread sealant, or placement in an area that isn't wet.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Happy new year to everyone.

I have another one:

How many springs are in total, in a Gaggia Classic (2009-2014), and where these are?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

FairRecycler said:


> Happy new year to everyone.
> I have another one:
> How many springs are in total, in a Gaggia Classic (2009-2014), and where these are?


Nice question... though the answer really depends on your definition of a spring.

Assuming any sprung steel part... rather than just coiled springs:

I'm on 13 at the moment but still thinking!


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MrShades said:


> Nice question... though the answer really depends on your definition of a spring.
> 
> Assuming any sprung steel part... rather than just coiled springs:
> 
> I'm on 13 at the moment but still thinking!


 This is a good call. I think we should keep it simple and restrict it to the coils.

You can also add and detail the others separately, if you want to.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

FairRecycler said:


> This is a good call. I think we should keep it simple and restrict it to the coils.
> 
> You can also add and detail the others separately, if you want to.


 Usually one less than there should be for any spring containing items in my house 🤣


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

FairRecycler said:


> This is a good call. I think we should keep it simple and restrict it to the coils.
> You can also add and detail the others separately, if you want to.


I'll go with the following then...

Coil springs:

3 in the pump 
1 in the OPV
1 in the solenoid valve
4 in the switchbank

And expanding it to include any sprung metal:

1 in the steam knob
1 in the portafilter 
2 sprung clips either side of the switchbank


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MrShades said:


> I'll go with the following then...
> 
> Coil springs:
> 
> ...


 Not far, but there is more in both categories.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

FairRecycler said:


> Not far, but there is more in both categories.


Ah yes... I've thought of one or two more. Will keep thinking but might have to go and get a machine from the workshop and have a good look at it!

As I said, a good question!


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

@MrShades

Clue 1









But this isn't the only one missing.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

FairRecycler said:


> @MrShades
> Clue 1
> <img alt="IMG_20210101_214356.thumb.jpg.8b3f2c8d4c6c896c2ff6962248f1319f.jpg" data-fileid="50418" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2021_01/IMG_20210101_214356.thumb.jpg.8b3f2c8d4c6c896c2ff6962248f1319f.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">
> But this isn't the only one missing.


Yes, it's been a while since I've had a pump in pieces and I couldn't remember if there were 3 or 4...

Are we including the spring clips on the end of pipes as well? I guess so.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MrShades said:


> spring clips on the end of pipes


 Yes, I suppose those should be considered as coil springs.

But there are some more, still


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## BBBean (Jul 31, 2020)

Agree good question.

One spring not mentioned yet is the spring clip that holds the pump onto its mounting plate. Then I have a few possibles:

Also the power input socket has four inbuilt plastic springs to hold it into place, which serve the same function as the 2 metal springs on the switch bank?

 Is there a spring holding the boiler fuse in place?

Finally I assume that each thermostat would have a spring internally?


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## Scoob (Jan 2, 2021)

.all above plus 2 Coiled springs inside the silicon pipes leading from boiler / overflow back to tank?.newbie answer . From the classic I gave away to my family.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

BBBean said:


> spring clip that holds the pump onto its mounting plate


 Good call, however I wouldn't consider it a "spring coil", would you?



BBBean said:


> four inbuilt plastic springs


 That's mind blowing that is. I've never thought about these (I was only considering metal springs) 👍



BBBean said:


> spring holding the boiler fuse in place





BBBean said:


> each thermostat would have a spring internally


 And these are my reasons to only include the spring coils, because the ones above are probably somewhat arguable.

But we are still missing some


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Scoob said:


> .all above plus 2 Coiled springs inside the silicon pipes leading from boiler / overflow back to tank?.newbie answer . From the classic I gave away to my family.


 This is why I specified the year, as the ones you mentioned are only present in older Italian made models.


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## Scoob (Jan 2, 2021)

FairRecycler said:


> This is why I specified the year, as the ones you mentioned are only present in older Italian made models.


 Thank you..

Help.. I almost bought a niche zero at a silly price from .. A totally scam website that will steal your money

Can you post where best to warn it appears fake .. according to reddit reviews..


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## Scoob (Jan 2, 2021)

The website has been shut down as a scam and reopened under similar name.. its a worry..I don't no where to best warn others..

I put 3 in my basket for gifts then had a warning feeling.

I trust it . Thank the beans !


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Scoob said:


> The website has been shut down as a scam and reopened under similar name.. its a worry..I don't no where to best warn others..
> 
> I put 3 in my basket for gifts then had a warning feeling.
> 
> I trust it . Thank the beans !


 I'm sure @DavecUK will point you to the right direction, once he has some time.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Scoob said:


> The website has been shut down as a scam and reopened under similar name.. its a worry..I don't no where to best warn others..
> 
> I put 3 in my basket for gifts then had a warning feeling.
> 
> I trust it . Thank the beans !


 No need to warn others it just gives them more publicity. The price for the niche is pretty much the same worldwide, with perhaps very minor differences due to taxes etc..


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

@MrShades @BBBean

Clue 2









￼I'm not sure if you can zoom enough to see what I mean.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

A circlip I guess.... getting pretty tenuous now!


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

MrShades said:


> A circlip I guess.... getting pretty tenuous now!


 Not that (I'm not worried about non coil springs), there is an internal coil spring in the cylinder of the solenoid (to tension the rubber cap at the end). You can see it through the tiny hole on the side, also on pre 2009 models the groove is fully opened, so it shows more obviously.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

FairRecycler said:


> Not that (I'm not worried about non coil springs), there is an internal coil spring in the cylinder of the solenoid (to tension the rubber cap at the end). You can see it through the tiny hole on the side, also on pre 2009 models the groove is fully opened, so it shows more obviously.


Ah... I didn't know that! Well spotted.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

But 1 more is missing still


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Clue 2.5

There is only 1 area left which already been mentioned according to spring coils.


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## Steve_M (May 26, 2018)

FairRecycler said:


> Clue 2.5
> 
> There is only 1 area left which already been mentioned according to spring coils.


 The 5th spring inside the switch bank that is connected to the lower part of the brew light?


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

Steve_M said:


> The 5th spring inside the switch bank that is connected to the lower part of the brew light?


 Correct.


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## FairRecycler (Sep 26, 2019)

So we have spring coils:

4 in the pump

2 in the solenoid

1 in the pressure valve

and 5 in the switch

12 in total.

Shall we add up all the non coil springs as the next question, once we here? I think most of them has already been mentioned. Regardless of material, everything what makes a spring action in any way (apart from the coils detailed above.


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