# What do you pay for coffee ? How much is is worth ?



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mrboots - split from the Rave Roasters thread... a question re current offers from a roaster, prompted some discussion on the price coffee is bought for and prices bewtween different beans and roasters .....



Olliehulla said:


> yeah as a bag price (for fresh decent beans) you're probably right but it's not £9.50 though is it once you've paid £2.40 postage.
> 
> A £25+ order is not ideal for me as I usually only drink 1kg / mnth so to get the £25 order value I have to buy 2kgs+, unless of course I buy the more expensive 250/350g bags however this means my £9.50/kg bag is now more like £17-19+ per kg.
> 
> If there is no offer on, it is what it is, we are where we are, I shall pay up and move on.


I think watching this film if you get an opportunity would be a good thing

http://afilmaboutcoffee.com


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

We should definitely be paying more for coffee. Makes me sad to see it being sold sub £10 per kilo.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's a gateway coffee...try this, it's cheap...piques peoples's interest in decent coffee then they realise good coffee is with paying extra for then they hopefully start exploring more.

For a lot of people if it was 8 quid a kilo supermarket shit then a leap to (at least) 20 a kilo speciality they might never make the jump


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> I think watching this film if you get an opportunity would be a good thing
> 
> http://afilmaboutcoffee.com


Martin, have you watched the whole film? Looks interesting from the short trailer. Weighing up whether to rent or purchase?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> We should definitely be paying more for coffee. Makes me sad to see it being sold sub £10 per kilo.


Why?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Hard working farmers etc aren't getting paid as much as they deserve perhaps?


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

No offence taken. I think it's a hugely interesting and important topic and I don't profess to understand the full coffee bean supply chain. I probably should read up on where my hard earned goes after I've fired off my order to Rave.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Spazbarista said:


> Why?


Someone , somewhere is being shafted. Plus demanding cheap doesn't increase quality, sustainability & a future in coffee.

http://www.handloom.co.uk/blog/why-we-should-be-paying-more-for-coffee/

http://www.hasblog.co.uk/pay-more-for-nice-things


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> It's a gateway coffee...try this, it's cheap...piques peoples's interest in decent coffee then they realise good coffee is with paying extra for then they hopefully start exploring more.
> 
> For a lot of people if it was 8 quid a kilo supermarket shit then a leap to (at least) 20 a kilo speciality they might never make the jump


I dont think buying kilo bags will be the gateway moment, its usually a gateway cup in a cafe / friends house?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Martin, have you watched the whole film? Looks interesting from the short trailer. Weighing up whether to rent or purchase?


Yes . watch its worth every penny...

You can rent it on vimeo

I saw it at a showing at my local roasters ...great hour ish well spent


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> I dont think buying kilo bags will be the gateway moment, its usually a gateway cup in a cafe / friends house?


Look at the amount of people on here recently that have baulked at a fiver a 250g bag when they're used to paying under a tenner for a kilo of shit. Rave IJ gets recommended as an introduction as it's far superior to commodity stuff but still cheap enough people don't feel it's a rip off.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Look at the amount of people on here


I get what you're saying but its a fraction of a drop in the ocean mate, Once you've seen the other side of the fence .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Yeah I know we're a tiny proportion but just saying it's an accessible way for people to try better coffee


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's the Gaggia Classic of the coffee world


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Funny thing is, rave buy their greens from the same importers as a lot of other roasters yet they don't cost as much roasted, someone is making more somewhere and I am sure they are not donating back to the farmers!!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> Funny thing is, rave buy their greens from the same importers as a lot of other roasters yet they don't cost as much roasted, someone is making more somewhere and I am sure they are not donating back to the farmers!!


This is going way off topic, but sure , there are not that many importers for specialty, perhaps 3-4 key ones - lots of roasters will have cross over . Don't forget there are many grades of coffees from single importers, and some roasters get preferential treatment , first offerings before anyone else.

Direct trade where possible is best, cut out the middlemen and all that BS. We are quite lucky having 60-70% of our coffees from direct relationships with farms/mill/exporters - you can say ''make this 88 point coffee a 90 and we will pay x amount more''. Its hard work , time and a lot of money on travel but worth it.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

There is a degree of affectation with this notion of direct relationships between growers and roasters. It's the current way of justifying higher prices, and it is something of a bandwagon that roasters seem to want to get on. Standard marketing strategy, in fact, purporting to offer something 'exclusive'. I'm not suggesting it has no actual value to the consumer, but it has great marketing value to the roaster.

In a way, I'm not against it. If there is a tangible benefit in the quality then it is something that roasters can lay claim too. Otherwise, they can't lay claim to much. In the grand scheme of food processing coffee roasters have minimal input.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Split form the Rave roasters thread ...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> There is a degree of affectation with this notion of direct relationships between growers and roasters. It's the current way of justifying higher prices, and it is something of a bandwagon that roasters seem to want to get on. Standard marketing strategy, in fact, purporting to offer something 'exclusive'. I'm not suggesting it has no actual value to the consumer, but it has great marketing value to the roaster.
> 
> In a way, I'm not against it. If there is a tangible benefit in the quality then it is something that roasters can lay claim too. Otherwise, they can't lay claim to much. In the grand scheme of food processing coffee roasters have minimal input.


So direct trade secures a farmer a fair price , year after year , with which they know they can invest in their staff, families of staff educations and well being , the area and environment , and produce better quality coffee , you dont see that as having an impact and adding value ? If a roaster ( any roaster ) is achieving with this , they are impacting on the quality of the product people are getting ..Shirley?

If a guy from bluebottle says to a farmer , ill buy your coffee while the company is alive and running , at x price , and you can start to make long term investment as a result , thats got to be a good thing ...

As a suggestion have you watched a film about coffee ...


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

In the name of sustainability, there is no way one can offer extremely low prices on anything that classes as specialty, it really will mean the farmer/co-ops/pickers/families are getting shafted somewhere and thats not going to introduce higher quality in following years. Working in the coffeelands really is one of the poorest occupations in the world and the only way to improve that is to offer incentives to boost quality, support communities and build relationships.

Now the debate is how to educate/explain why it costs more for your bag or cup of coffee to somebody who doesn't know without pushing it on them aggressively in an arrogantly hipster fashion









I agree with Gary here in that Direct Trade really is best, if you are lucky enough to have years of relationships behind you then the possibilities are fantastic- hasbean are a great example of this. However, what I don't like is the way direct trade is being bandied about by so many people worldwide incorrectly....

anyhow, back to the topic, paying more is worth it if you want to continue seeing quality coffee emerging from origin. The C price is so low currently that just paying specialty prices doesn't cut it, the farmers need a margin on top of their production costs to even make having their farms feasible let alone profitable.

Pay more suckas!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Double post


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I would like to comment on this remark from Spazbarista.

"Otherwise, they can't lay claim to much. In the grand scheme of food processing coffee roasters have minimal input."

I have recently used the same bean from the same farm but roasted by two different companies, it was like drinking something totally different as the roast profile was miles apart. Without wanting to stick up for roasters they can and often do have a massive effect on the beans.

Ian


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## Kman10 (Sep 3, 2014)

I pay £23 every 4 weeks for 1kg, I'm happy to pay a bit more for quality


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Eyedee said:


> I would like to comment on this remark from Spazbarista.
> 
> "Otherwise, they can't lay claim to much. In the grand scheme of food processing coffee roasters have minimal input."
> 
> ...


Plus one

you only need to look at the many different iterations of Rocko mountain going round this year ......

Ive had Extract, Foundry , Rounton, Atkinsons , all amazing coffees , all different flavours when brewed and extracted the same way .......


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

They stick one ingredient in an oven and they apply heat. The only variance is how much heat and for how long. Then they stick it in a bag.

Everything else that they do is marketing.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Lolz!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> They stick one ingredient in an oven and they apply heat. The only variance is how much heat and for how long. Then they stick it in a bag.
> 
> Everything else that they do is marketing.


Give that a go at home.

See how it works out for you


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I have. Many times over about ten years.

Have you?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> I have. Many times over about ten years.
> 
> Have you?


Nope and ?


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

Well I have, and I definitely don't agree sir. Come see us and you will be having nothing but malabar from now on! (evil laugh)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> They stick one ingredient in an oven and they apply heat. The only variance is how much heat and for how long. Then they stick it in a bag.
> 
> Everything else that they do is marketing.


Unless you're brewing green coffee, it's a pretty essential part of the process?

If your business is selling coffee it makes sense to advertise, whether you roast it or not...which is pretty low key/small scale given the big picture. Outside of forums I don't see marketing of whole bean roasted coffee?


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## JoeFromWales (Jan 24, 2015)

how do you know what a fair price is and whether a fair chunk of that price goes back to the farmer/community? You could pay £25 a kilo from someone with an impressive website but that doesn't mean the farmer is getting more than nestle would pay them.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

I was reading 'The Devils Cup' last night and it briefly covered Shaded Coffee vs Sunned Coffee (dunno what film(in work) at beginning of thread is but will watch later so am assuming here) and effects on rain forests, environment etc etc.

At the moment as new I am bounding about 'consuming' as much coffee from as many different roasters as possible and as I can afford (shocked to find so many locally but also going online). Paying an average of £5-£8 for 250g bags in general. I haven't even considered a kilo yet as am trying to find 'the ones' and also a which roasters 'I' think are good.

On how much I would be willing to pay, yeah I would pay more for a roaster I thought was better and also would take into account if they were 'right on' so to speak. Would happily pay for a more eco and farmer fair trade bean etc etc even choosing them above others though as with very many environmental and fair trade issues its often not quite as clean cut as it seems same with organic too.


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

Sk8-bizarre said:


> ...... though as with very many environmental and fair trade issues its often not quite as clean cut as it seems same with organic too.


Definitely an issue in the coffeelands


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ShortShots said:


> Well I have, and I definitely don't agree sir. Come see us and you will be having nothing but malabar from now on! (evil laugh)


Don't let him have any more Brooke, banish him to the wastelands


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Nope and ?


It just means you don't know what your advice means, That's all.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Anyhoo.....

The thrust of what I'm getting at here is that compared to other areas of food production, coffee roasting is at the lower end when it comes to value added. Sure, there is an element of knowledge and experimentation...but it is what it is, and I'm not criticising.

Let's take James Hoffmann, for example. I stand to be corrected, but I'd bet a sizeable sum that he spends a tiny proportion of his time roasting, and almost all of it spent on marketing activities.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> It just means you don't know what your advice means, That's all.


I know you didn't use " an oven " ......for starters

I didn't give any advise on roasting per se .I sarcastically replied to your sarcastic statement ...

nope i haven't roasted you got me there though ...i leave it to the other home roasters and pro ones to qualify your statement .

I think even most home roasters would take question what you said though , there is certainly alot more alluded on the home roasting thread by that community to roasting good beans ...


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

JoeFromWales said:


> how do you know what a fair price is and whether a fair chunk of that price goes back to the farmer/community? You could pay £25 a kilo from someone with an impressive website but that doesn't mean the farmer is getting more than nestle would pay them.


They go into detail about how they re compensate farmers. See HasBean's blog and In My Mug where they often talk about the farms, Tim Wendelboe publishing price paid to farmers for all their coffee's etc


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> Anyhoo.....
> 
> The thrust of what I'm getting at here is that compared to other areas of food production, coffee roasting is at the lower end when it comes to value added. Sure, there is an element of knowledge and experimentation...but it is what it is, and I'm not criticising.
> 
> Let's take James Hoffmann, for example. I stand to be corrected, but I'd bet a sizeable sum that he spends a tiny proportion of his time roasting, and almost all of it spent on marketing activities.


When did he say he did the roasting? Is everyone who works at a roasters obliged to do the roasting between accounting, paying staff, HR, generating new business, maintaining existing business, cleaning, delivering, freely sharing thoughts & knowledge on coffee?

Do you get cold calls on the phone & leaflets through the door urging you to buy from Squaremile? I don't, I have to type in the words to my search engine...like with any other roaster.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> When did he say he did the roasting? Is everyone who works at a roasters obliged to do the roasting between accounting, paying staff, HR, generating new business, maintaining existing business, cleaning, delivering, freely sharing thoughts & knowledge on coffee?
> 
> Do you get cold calls on the phone & leaflets through the door urging you to buy from Squaremile? I don't, I have to type in the words to my search engine...like with any other roaster.


I woud prefer those cold calls to the accident network uk that we get...


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

MWJB said:


> When did he say he did the roasting? Is everyone who works at a roasters obliged to do the roasting between accounting, paying staff, HR, generating new business, maintaining existing business, cleaning, delivering, freely sharing thoughts & knowledge on coffee?
> 
> Do you get cold calls on the phone & leaflets through the door urging you to buy from Squaremile? I don't, I have to type in the words to my search engine...like with any other roaster.


Thank you. You are making my point for me


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> If there is a tangible benefit in the quality then it is something that roasters can lay claim too. Otherwise, they can't lay claim to much. In the grand scheme of food processing coffee roasters have minimal input.


Finca Argentina kilo box offered by HB at Christmas. Farmer has a small area (an acre?) set aside for experimentation in degree of fertilizer input plus different processing tweaks. Lot of hard work and dedication to getting the very best out of the bean. Worth the premium price - for me, yes to see how the same bean could vary in flavour through the input of above techniques. As for roasters having minimal input - have you tried roasting? It's easy to get a passable roast - damn hard to get the flavour profiles we take for granted.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Alejandro who farms Argentina is minted but a good example of paying more is for good reason is David Vilca. Three different processes of the same coffee (his entire livelihood off his crop) . Bags of the washed coffee are 7p more to pay for his hearing aid!

''We thought that would be the last of it. But when I visited this year, David didn't have his hearing aids in. He told us that they were not good while he was picking what to wear, but also that he couldn't afford the batteries. So this year we left him with cash for a microphone hearing-device for around his neck, and $200 for batteries. This works out at 7p per bag for all the coffee we buy from him, and I'm not picking up the bill. That's your job!''


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> have you tried roasting? It's easy to get a passable roast - damn hard to get the flavour profiles we take for granted.


Agree on that, plus its not just a case of slinging beans in a roaster, i often wonder how many beans, time and cupping sessions they need to go through to hit the right profile!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Alejandro who farms Argentina is minted but a good example of paying more is for good reason is David Vilca. Three different processes of the same coffee (his entire livelihood off his crop) . Bags of the washed coffee are 7p more to pay for his hearing aid!
> 
> ''We thought that would be the last of it. But when I visited this year, David didn't have his hearing aids in. He told us that they were not good while he was picking what to wear, but also that he couldn't afford the batteries. So this year we left him with cash for a microphone hearing-device for around his neck, and $200 for batteries. This works out at 7p per bag for all the coffee we buy from him, and I'm not picking up the bill. That's your job!''


http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/bolivia-finca-david-vilca-caturra-washed

Marketing.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/bolivia-finca-david-vilca-caturra-washed
> 
> Marketing.


Have you tried this coffee


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have you tried this coffee


I'm talking about Gary's quote being a part of Hasbean's marketing. Its part of the back story.

In answer to your question, no, I haven't tried this coffee. I'm sure you are about to tell me that it is fabulous, and that's great. Personally, though, I don't rate HasBean. I used to, but not anymore.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Oh i actually dont care......

Have fun debating

Im going to drink some marketing ......


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Maybe you should have thought about that before.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> It's a gateway coffee...try this, it's cheap...piques peoples's interest in decent coffee then they realise good coffee is with paying extra for then they hopefully start exploring more.
> 
> For a lot of people if it was 8 quid a kilo supermarket shit then a leap to (at least) 20 a kilo speciality they might never make the jump


Hate this place was perfectly content drinking my Lavassa and would never have dreamt of spending over £20 for a kilo of beans.

Just got my new order from HasBean £24.00 lighter

Funny thing is the kilo I bought from Rave (italian roast) is almost finished, roasted 16/01/15, opened two weeks ago and has been tasting really nice but only of late. I didn't think fresh roasted too so long to settle down or might it be my palate that has changed? coffee not tasting bitter at all.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I get cracking with the has been stuff straight away but many people say rave only really gets going after 7-10 says rest


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Spazbarista said:


> I'm talking about Gary's quote being a part of Hasbean's marketing. Its part of the back story.
> 
> In answer to your question, no, I haven't tried this coffee. I'm sure you are about to tell me that it is fabulous, and that's great. Personally, though, I don't rate HasBean. I used to, but not anymore.


Damn, foiled. His name is actually Phillip Tunnicliffe, an actor from barnstaple. He has perfectly good hearing.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Ok, just put it in the freezer yesterday until the Rave was finished, the 7-10 would appear to be right for me anyway.

Don't take the piss jeebsy but I've still got some Lavassa to finish and to be honest I am dying to see how much it will taste differently to the Rave bean.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> Thank you. You are making my point for me


There is no point, you mistakenly broadcast the fact that you thought Mr Hoffmann claimed to be sole roaster, the only point here is you're talking out of your hat.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

MWJB said:


> There is no point, you mistakenly broadcast the fact that you thought Mr Hoffmann claimed to be sole roaster, the only point here is you're talking out of your hat.


Let's have a look at what I actually said, rather than what you said I said....



> Let's take James Hoffmann, for example. I stand to be corrected, but I'd bet a sizeable sum that he spends a tiny proportion of his time roasting, and almost all of it spent on marketing activities.


Funny that. I can't quite see how you managed from that to mind read me in order to say..



MWJB said:


> you thought Mr Hoffmann claimed to be sole roaster.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Damn, foiled. His name is actually Phillip Tunnicliffe, an actor from barnstaple. He has perfectly good hearing.


Whatever.

The quoted conversation may or may not have taken place. The point is that it is quoted on the website. The website is all about sales. The quote is part of the marketing.

Hasbean has positioned itself in the premium end of the market where the narrative is that the roaster is best mates with the grower (see photos of roaster with arm round grower in front of a coffee bush etc etc), works with the grower bla bla bla and together they create something that is different. Union do it, Square Mile sort of do it, some of the US roasters do it. Regardless of whether it actually happens in any meaningful way with any tangible benefits to the taste buds of the consumer the fact that we all know about it is because it is used in the marketing.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What does 'premium end of the market' mean - HB have plenty of beans around £5.00 a bag.



> whether it {grower/roaster relationship creating something different} actually happens in any meaningful way with any tangible benefits to the taste buds of the consumer the fact that we all know about it is because it is used in the marketing.


rather sweeping - don't agree.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

The Systemic Kid said:


> What does 'premium end of the market' mean - HB have plenty of beans around £5.00 a bag.


...and plenty that aren't.



> rather sweeping - don't agree.


The point I am making is a bit hard to argue against. If you didn't find out through marketing about the purported relations between roaster and grower , then how did you find out?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> ...and plenty that aren't.


and customers don't have to buy them if they don't want to.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> The point I am making is a bit hard to argue against....


Take that as being tongue in cheek - possibly even ironic. Reminds me of my mother saying, 'I may be dogmatic, but I'm right'


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

The Systemic Kid said:


> and customers don't have to buy them if they don't want to.


Nobody has to buy anything they don't want to.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

As for 'how did I find out' being through 'marketing' - think I've been round the block enough times to sense when it is hype but each to his own.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

You will have found out through marketing, no question, but as to whether it is purely hype each will have to make a judgement based on their tastebuds.........although the power of suggestion is very strong and perceived benefits are a strong selling point in all sorts of areas of retail.

Anyway, this is a lively thread. I'm mildly amused by the reactions of those who have told me I should try roasting (I did, for ten years), and I guessing I will be one of a very few members of this forum to have set foot on a coffee plantation and seen production first hand. (I say 'a', but I've been on coffee estates in Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Burma, Laos and Vietnam)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Vance Packard made that very clear decades ago.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I'd buy anything from somebody called 'Vance'


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Why would you bet that Mr Hoffmann's primary role wasn't roasting every batch if you didn't think it was, nor wished to convey the idea that it was, to start with? You're going in circles...or is that just what you want me to think....? It's so clever, it actually looks like nonsense...or does it...









When my phone line was installed, neither Richard Branson, nor Usain Bolt turned up with a box of tools & bunch of cable...neither would I expect them too, neither would William Hill, so it wouldn't be much of a bet would it. Especially if Branson & Bolt had stated in recent interviews that they don't actually install phone lines.

How do you find out about the beans you buy, tap phones? Espionage rings? Do you wrestle them off reluctant bean barons whose sole aim is to accumulate huge stocks & never release them? Do you buy without being told about origin, "Beans is beans, don't tell me where they came from, or any of that marketing spaff, they'll go in the oven like all the others...". Are you given them for free/cost so as to not get duped by marketeers?

Specialty coffee is largely based around tracability & provenance, in fact much coffee is identified by country of origin, region etc.

What exactly is your point?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Got some Finca Lavina at the moment - cost £14.00 for 250grms - really enjoyable but is it worth the premium? I work on an old saying about the price of a meal out - if you look at the bill, it's a bad meal. For me, same with coffee.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> ....What exactly is your point?


arguing the toss, possibly??


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Why would you bet that Mr Hoffmann's primary role wasn't roasting every batch if you didn't think it was,


I think you'll find that people don't usually bet contrary to what they know. Doh.



MWJB said:


> What exactly is your point?


From our last interaction you displayed your inability to read what is written, so it is a little cheeky of you to expect me to restate everything just to mitigate your weaknesses.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Spazbarista said:


> I think you'll find that people don't usually bet against contrary to what they know. Doh.


I bet the news at ten isn't actually scheduled to come on at 5:36...c'mon who'll take my odds, could be pretty penny in it for those willing to take a risk...

See, not much of a bet, no adrenalin rush, no big win. In fact, it's stating the bleedin' obvious...what a rollercoaster ride of thrills that is.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Spazbarista said:


> Whatever.
> 
> The quoted conversation may or may not have taken place. The point is that it is quoted on the website. The website is all about sales. The quote is part of the marketing.
> 
> Hasbean has positioned itself in the premium end of the market where the narrative is that the roaster is best mates with the grower (see photos of roaster with arm round grower in front of a coffee bush etc etc), works with the grower bla bla bla and together they create something that is different. Union do it, Square Mile sort of do it, some of the US roasters do it. Regardless of whether it actually happens in any meaningful way with any tangible benefits to the taste buds of the consumer the fact that we all know about it is because it is used in the marketing.


All marketing ? https://twitter.com/hasbean


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

So you've linked to more marketing. Not sure what your point is.


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

Spazbarista said:


> Anyhoo.....
> 
> The thrust of what I'm getting at here is that compared to other areas of food production, coffee roasting is at the lower end when it comes to value added. Sure, there is an element of knowledge and experimentation...but it is what it is, and I'm not criticising.
> 
> Let's take James Hoffmann, for example. I stand to be corrected, but I'd bet a sizeable sum that he spends a tiny proportion of his time roasting, and almost all of it spent on marketing activities.


It's a pretty easy to bet to win - as I've constantly stated as publicly that I can that I'm not a roaster, that I don't enjoying roasting, and that there are some hard working and talented people at SQM that deserve the credit.

Boringly most of what I do goes under the broad banner of "running a company". This is mostly people management, finances, and a bit of marketing. I wish I did more of the marketing stuff because I really enjoy it. Increasingly this is being done by capable people at work as I end up taking on more projects of various natures (like writing books, or working on equipment projects etc).

Anyway - thought I'd clarify... Carry on!


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