# Hario Immersion/Switch



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Anyone using one? I've got one on the way and just forked out 40 quid for Sibarist papers. Any tips welcome or share experiences etc

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Has this been prompted by the JH video?

I watched it with great curiosity. I am a big fan of the clever dripper and I didn't know Hario did something similar.


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Has this been prompted by the JH video?
> I watched it with great curiosity. I am a big fan of the clever dripper and I didn't know Hario did something similar.


Same here! Asking myself if I need another coffee thing in my life 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Has this been prompted by the JH video?
> I watched it with great curiosity. I am a big fan of the clever dripper and I didn't know Hario did something similar.


Yes it is

I use a V60 first thing in the morning and immersion drip makes so much sense when I watched his vid I went in

£86 for the kit Inc the fast papers ain't cheap but it's a Chrissy pressy to myself

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Is use a second grinder , a Wilfa Svart

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## mattpitts74 (Nov 22, 2012)

I saw JH's video about the Hario Switch and thought I ought to get my clever dripper out again. Does anyone have a good receipe for the clever dripper?


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

mattpitts74 said:


> I saw JH's video and thought I ought to get my clever dripper out again. Does anyone have a good receipe for the clever dripper?


What a clever dripper?

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## mattpitts74 (Nov 22, 2012)

I don't think JH has done the a clever dripper video yet, sorry I'd seen the hario switch which reminded me to have another go with the Clever dripper


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

mattpitts74 said:


> I don't think JH has done the a clever dripper video yet, sorry I'd seen the hario switch which reminded me to have another go with the Clever dripper


What does a clever dripper do?

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## mattpitts74 (Nov 22, 2012)

Dave double bean said:


> What does a clever dripper do?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


 Its an immersion brewer similar to the Hario switch https://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/products/clever-coffee-dripper


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

mattpitts74 said:


> Its an immersion brewer similar to the Hario switch https://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/products/clever-coffee-dripper


Interesting in his vid he's saying he brews differently with the Switch to the clever dripper but doesn't say how

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Hahaha, u watched this video yesterday and also definitely feel tempted... was the same after his cloth brewer video; but I didnt reckon worth the price when I already have more than enough brewing methods in my house... or rather I figure my partner would figure not worth it 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

I've used an Aeropress for 10 years and have a Moka pot, and of course a machine for espresso , but V60 is my fave way to make a pot of Americano in the morning. Just seems so much sense to pre infuse for longer

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## simontc (May 21, 2014)

I do agree.... I might just about justify a clever I think

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

simontc said:


> I do agree.... I might just about justify a clever I think
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


I still want to know what James does differently with the Switch v clever as per his video, I've messaged him

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## simontc (May 21, 2014)

Nice! Please do post if he replies. He has said repeatedly he's working on a video- i know he goes through a load of different methods in any brew style to hit on a sweet spot incorporating ease and outcome; hence the swirling v60 method- which tbh I'm not sold on (though I've incorporated the late swirl into my method as I totally get what he says about evening out that bed). I love his vids- i fear my taste preferences and his might not be too similar; to this day ive only ever been underwhelmed with square mile beans (though price may be a factor in expectation- though i will say the last coffee I had out was from dose near Farringdon and they were running red brick and it was pretty damned good). I think what he goes for in terms of flavours from his brew methods doesn't necessarily align with my preferences, but I love his style/the way he treats coffee/how he is working to inspire others to explore what works for them. Hence I love his videos.

That was a rambling post im aware...

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## Hairy_Hogg (Jul 23, 2015)

Is this the Hario version of the December dripper?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## simontc (May 21, 2014)

So not like December no (I assumed it was, but googled to check and realise the dd is very different)


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

December is a slow dripper, the Switch is a pre infusion dripper

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

I suspect JH is saving the big reveal of his clever dripper technique for a video.

Personally I do very similar to this - Very simple and to be honest I often get distracted and brew time goes super long, doesn't really matter though. I think some people do 20 minute steeps.


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Yeah , there must be a lot to try with the new Switch, perhaps a pre bloom then full immersion, no need for a spin, or maybe a little spin, who knows, I'm sure he'll enjoy the process of discovery . No need for a bloom with immersion as you aren't chasing a drawdown but I wonder how much he'll experiment

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Where did you order from @Dave double bean ; ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

salty said:


> Where did you order from@Dave double bean ; ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This place

https://castironroasters.com/products/hario-immersion-dripper

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Dave double bean said:


> This place
> 
> https://castironroasters.com/products/hario-immersion-dripper
> 
> Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


Thanks! I'd spotted it on there too. I may just give myself a lockdown #2 treat

Edit

Ordered! Apple Pay can be dangerous at times like this. It's so quick!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

I'm going to have some fun messing with it but tbh I think it's designed as a hassle free quick way to brew coffee, which considering I work from home is the main attraction

I've also spent a wad on the quick papers JH reviewed

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Dave double bean said:


> I'm going to have some fun messing with it but tbh I think it's designed as a hassle free quick way to brew coffee, which considering I work from home is the main attraction
> 
> I've also spent a wad on the quick papers JH reviewed
> 
> Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


Haha - I know what you mean, I'm in the same boat. Don't plan to invest in the papers though, a step too far for me - although I also told myself I didn't need the switch bc I have a Clever Dripper - so watch this space

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

There is no need for them but like JH I can't stand waiting for the drawdown watching all that lovely heat dissipate

The main reason I want the quicker papers is a hotter cup

Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


----------



## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Dave double bean said:


> There is no need for them but like JH I can't stand waiting for the drawdown watching all that lovely heat dissipate
> 
> The main reason I want the quicker papers is a hotter cup
> 
> Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


With the Clever putting the water in first and then dumping the coffee in, or part water, dump coffee, then rest of water generally speeds up drawdown. But as you said, there's fun to be had experimenting and messing around with it. Let us know how you get on.

I'm looking to compare the Switch and the Clever. My gut tells me there won't be a difference but will be interesting to see

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tsouthwell (Jul 17, 2020)

> 17 hours ago, BlackCatCoffee said:
> 
> I suspect JH is saving the big reveal of his clever dripper technique for a video.
> 
> Personally I do very similar to this - Very simple and to be honest I often get distracted and brew time goes super long, doesn't really matter though. I think some people do 20 minute steeps.


 What sort of grind size are you using (compared to v60 etc). I have a clever on the way and am looking forward to playing around with it.


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

It's a clever thing. Can fit in 280ml, i used 17.5g and 250ml which is perfect for me in the morning

Can I notice anything really noticeable in the cup? Not yet, I went to done on this and need to play, it makes a lovely cup bit of course all V60 does with fresh beans

Didn't use any specific technique but suspect there is an optimum way to use it should as a specific times bloom, look forward to more from JH on this

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Del


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Dave double bean said:


> There is no need for them but like JH I can't stand waiting for the drawdown watching all that lovely heat dissipate
> 
> The main reason I want the quicker papers is a hotter cup
> 
> Sent from my SM-G780F using Tapatalk


 Is that for it to remain hotter for longer or drink it hotter? 
If the later doesn't it ruin the taste to drink it that hot? 
Not to mention the increase in oesophageal cancer from drinking drinks over 70C


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Is that for it to remain hotter for longer or drink it hotter?
> If the later doesn't it ruin the taste to drink it that hot?
> Not to mention the increase in oesophageal cancer from drinking drinks over 70C


The biggest drawback of V60 is losing heat if you are a milk adder, which my wife is

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Dave double bean said:


> The biggest drawback of V60 is losing heat if you are a milk adder, which my wife is
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


 Ah yes, my V60 comes through at about the right drinking temp for a dash of cream, you're right milk would send it right down.


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Can't find this in stock anywhere now 😭


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I wonder if there's a market for little knitted cosies for these. I keep umming about one for my V60. I have an Eva solo which has a neoprene cover. I guess most heat is lost out of the top though.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8T using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

fatboyslim said:


> Can't find this in stock anywhere now 😭


 I was hoping to get some on the site after I watched his video.

I can't find it in stock with any distributor either.......


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I was hoping to get some on the site after I watched his video.
> 
> I can't find it in stock with any distributor either.......


 That's the "Hoffman Effect" for you 😒


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

fatboyslim said:


> That's the "Hoffman Effect" for you 😒


 Indeed! Take a look at the Clever Dripper, the theory is similar as far as I can tell from looking at the Switch.


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Tbh is the switch any different really to the normal V60? I'm sure it is tbh, it's a nice piece of kit but I suspect you've got to figure out a detailed fiddly recipe of timings to really get the most out of it

I like using it, it's nice to flick the switch in a rather boringly tactile way

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Indeed! Take a look at the Clever Dripper, the theory is similar as far as I can tell from looking at the Switch.


 I've had one, didn't like the papers and sometimes the draw down was ridiculously long. Normal v60 gets consistently better results.

I've also owned a December dripper, which was fun, but I dropped it and now it's dripping days are over 😭


----------



## Hairy_Hogg (Jul 23, 2015)

Dave double bean said:


> Tbh is the switch any different really to the normal V60? I'm sure it is tbh, it's a nice piece of kit but I suspect you've got to figure out a detailed fiddly recipe of timings to really get the most out of it
> 
> I like using it, it's nice to flick the switch in a rather boringly tactile way
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


 Have you tried Filtropia papers in it (my go to for CCD brews) to see if the draw done is quicker than V60 papers?


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Have you tried Filtropia papers in it (my go to for CCD brews) to see if the draw done is quicker than V60 papers?


I've got the Sabistra papers on order

The final drawdown on the Switch is very slow

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Right, the Sibarist papers may be expensive but they make a huge difference , this was just a test, mid grind in a Svart no stirring nothing, just 230g water 17g coffee

The drawdown was straight through, with the normal Hario papers it's much slower particularly at the end which seems to take forever

Quick vid here

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/index.html

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I contacted Cast Iron Roasters to see when they would have more stock in. They are saying early February!


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

> 19 hours ago, Dave double bean said:
> 
> Right, the Sibarist papers may be expensive but they make a huge difference , this was just a test, mid grind in a Svart no stirring nothing, just 230g water 17g coffee
> 
> ...


 How much sediment is there in the cup using those papers? I wonder if one of those metal mesh filters for a v60 would work well?


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

fatboyslim said:


> How much sediment is there in the cup using those papers? I wonder if one of those metal mesh filters for a v60 would work well?


None, I've still experimenting tbh and not really feeling anything different in the cup the real benefit of the switch is it's faster and no faffing , so much easier than complication recipes 10 secs do this put half a gramme in on 12 secs then a 3 cm stir then recite a poem on one leg blah blah none of that

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dave double bean said:


> None, I've still experimenting tbh and not really feeling anything different in the cup the real benefit of the switch is it's faster and no faffing , so much easier than complication recipes 10 secs do this put half a gramme in on 12 secs then a 3 cm stir then recite a poem on one leg blah blah none of that
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


 That does sound complicated, I wouldn't do it either.

All methods are essentially just as simple/complicated as each other. You have to weigh the the coffee & water.


----------



## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Yes I'm being sarcastic, I weigh everything and follow ideas

The switch is a lot simpler though

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dave double bean said:


> The switch is a lot simpler though
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


 Well, it's an immersion brewer, rather than drip, so it works differently to a regular V60, likely extracts less too.


----------



## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't get why they have made this out of glass and priced it this way. Very not-Hario I'd say. Make it out of plastic, price it at 14.99, sell a million of them. Clever dripper is <£20 which makes Switch a hard sell for me really. Plastic is objectively even better for heat retention 🤷‍♂️


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zeak said:


> I don't get why they have made this out of glass and priced it this way. Very not-Hario I'd say. Make it out of plastic, price it at 14.99, sell a million of them. Clever dripper is <£20 which makes Switch a hard sell for me really. Plastic is objectively even better for heat retention 🤷‍♂️


 Glass & ceramic are easier to keep clean than plastic, less hazing, though I guess it was easier for Hario to just make new tooling to take the glass cone?

The Clever dripper is cheap, the Bonavita Immersion cone was more expensive than the Clever, as is the (also plastic) Wilfa cone (£45). I don't think Hario have ever really worried about pricing themselves out of the cheap end (see the "olive" range for instance and the original list price for the Mini Slim Pro grinder).

Clever did also make a glass version (Grace).

For this kind of brewer though the Clever release valve was pretty genius, not having to keep note of switch/valve setting.

I don't get why Hario made it at all, other than to just have something in that niche of the market.


----------



## Philip F (Oct 1, 2016)

I am using the switch aspect of the Hario Switch just to keep the water there for the pre-infusion bloom. Using 14g coffee to 200 g water for a single "teacup" serving, after a rinse I close the tap, add the coffee and pour 50 g water for a 30 to 40 Sec bloom, then open the tap and do a very slow pour of the remaining 150g water. Works for me. Your mileage may differ, as JH would say. I also use a recently bought Lily dripper accessory cone which reduces the thickness of the coffee bed and helps stop the water pooling towards the end of the filtration.


----------



## abelated (Apr 14, 2020)

Philip that's also what I use the switch for on mine, keeping all the water present for the bloom. Not sure how necessary it is to be honest. I've also tried messing with other ideas like keeping it closed until I've got 60 % of my brew water in there and then opening but can't really be bothered.

It's also very useful for pre heating the cone. I normally keep it closed and fill to the brim with boiling water, after about 30 seconds I let the water out, put my filter in, rinse it and go.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I don't have a switch but have done similar with my Bonavita, Brewista & Wilfa cones. Long (90s) prewet with 25% of total brew water (13.5:210g brews), then open valve & remaining water in in the next 30s,straight down the middle with a regular kettle. Longer prewet seems to work better with Brazils & Ethiopians compared to regular pour over brewing.


----------



## abelated (Apr 14, 2020)

Interesting mwjb I wonder what it is about Ethiopians and Brazilians that makes them respond like this?

I will try your technique tomorrow and see how I go.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

abelated said:


> Interesting mwjb I wonder what it is about Ethiopians and Brazilians that makes them respond like this?
> 
> I will try your technique tomorrow and see how I go.


 Denser, less permeable bean structure?


----------



## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

MWJB said:


> I don't have a switch but have done similar with my Bonavita, Brewista & Wilfa cones. Long (90s) prewet with 25% of total brew water (13.5:210g brews), then open valve & remaining water in in the next 30s,straight down the middle with a regular kettle. Longer prewet seems to work better with Brazils & Ethiopians compared to regular pour over brewing.


 I've been using the December mostly just to close off the bloom. Open up at 30 secs and start pouring at 45 secs. Works fine for most beans.

This 90 sec bloom sounds interesting though. I'll give it a try tomorrow!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jaffro said:


> I've been using the December mostly just to close off the bloom. Open up at 30 secs and start pouring at 45 secs. Works fine for most beans.
> 
> This 90 sec bloom sounds interesting though. I'll give it a try tomorrow!


 If what you're doing is working, I'd keep doing it. The 90s bloom isn't a thing by itself, just a way around brewing with an, oftentimes, finer grind (with Bonavita & Brewista - Wilfa doesn't need a big grind change over regular pour over, without a valve) & regular kettle vs gooseneck.

Maybe just open the valve at 40s, rather than 30?


----------



## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

MWJB said:


> If what you're doing is working, I'd keep doing it. The 90s bloom isn't a thing by itself, just a way around brewing with an, oftentimes, finer grind (with Bonavita & Brewista - Wilfa doesn't need a big grind change over regular pour over, without a valve) & regular kettle vs gooseneck.
> 
> Maybe just open the valve at 40s, rather than 30?


 Thanks @MWJB, I'll give it a try anyway out of curiosity! Not sure why I open the valve at 30s to be fair, probably just a habit I made up when I got the brewer... I'll try 40 too.

Still curious about the 90s bloom though, I'll try it regardless, got plenty of coffee to burn through!


----------



## abelated (Apr 14, 2020)

I normally do a 45 second bloom with the valve closed, I normally do james hoffman's method for v60, and that's how long he says to hold the bloom for.

I had a go with the 90s bloom, but I think it clogged the filter and I ended up with a very long draw down, maybe 5 minutes from first adding water. ( i used the same grind that I use for hoffman v60 method that ends at 3.30)

The taste isn't too bad, but I think I'd stick with my normal method when at home and with access to my pouring kettle.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

abelated said:


> I had a go with the 90s bloom, but I think it clogged the filter and I ended up with a very long draw down, maybe 5 minutes from first adding water. ( i used the same grind that I use for hoffman v60 method that ends at 3.30)


 I use a 90s bloom with a regular kettle & fast pour. Brews average 3:30 to 4:00 depending on brewer (sample of 200 brews).


----------



## abelated (Apr 14, 2020)

I'm actually really wondering about how swirling the bloom affects draw down time. From observation, if I swirl my bloom it goes through various phases, to begin with its quite flat, then it seems to knit together and form a dome, then eventually the dome begins to crack.

I've not done a serious effort to characterise this yet, but it seems to me that the more I swirl, the slower the draw down. This could just be bias because it feels as though the slurry is more knitted together. Does anyone else have any experience with this.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

abelated said:


> I'm actually really wondering about how swirling the bloom affects draw down time. From observation, if I swirl my bloom it goes through various phases, to begin with its quite flat, then it seems to knit together and form a dome, then eventually the dome begins to crack.
> 
> I've not done a serious effort to characterise this yet, but it seems to me that the more I swirl, the slower the draw down. This could just be bias because it feels as though the slurry is more knitted together. Does anyone else have any experience with this.


 Draw down time is not an indicator of brew quality with steep & release immersions, it's just a rough pointer to grind size & agitation. The more you agitate/flush particles into the paper, the slower your draw down will be. I'd only worry if you can pick up silty tastes in the cup.

Blooming with the Clever & presumably the switch, will increase clogging because of space below the paper filter allowing liquid to drip through, from the very start of the brew.

90% of the extraction takes place in the immersion phase, your drawdown has a pretty consistent, but relatively small impact.

Coarser grinds & smaller brews will speed it up, as will mixing the coffee & water at the surface with a stirrer...but then you are inevitably looking for a lower extraction (which can be very tasty & useful when you want a quick cup).

Remember that with steep & release, also with pour over, that as the water weight decreases over the bed, it is perfectly normal for flow to slow, because the coffee bed still has similar resistance but the reducing weight of water exerts less force on it.


----------

