# Atago TDS Refractometer - thoughts?



## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Before I get the usual 'it's just a brix unit', I'm talking about the TDS version of this:

http://www.atago.net/english/images/catalog/pal-coffee_a5_en.pdf

...which even has an app, similar to the VST one. There's a paper here, which found that it produced very similar results to the VST unit on filter coffee:

http://socraticcoffee.com/2015/04/measuring-total-dissolved-solids-a-refractometer-comparison/

Any thoughts?

JP


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I tried one next to my vst , ill drop you a pm....

I would check the thread of Hb , the test was a bit " flawed "

http://www.home-barista.com/brewing/detailed-comparison-study-of-atago-and-vst-refractometers-t35601.html


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Cheers!

JP


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I have some thoughts, read all the info you can, weight up the specifications of the devices & make an informed choice. Neither is cheap.

The Atago only appears to have an I-phone app. (I haven't seen it), VST's software is available on several platforms. The information supplied on the Atago site does not allow one to back calculate extraction yield (they even say that "Brix/TDS is not always indicative of yield"), this is the main reason for measuring TDS, which on it's own tells you little.

The test methodology for Socratic Coffee's part II test is not able to establish "precision" for the devices tested, whether it be absolute, or relative precision.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I tried one next to my vst , ill drop you a pm....
> 
> I would check the thread of Hb , the test was a bit " flawed "
> 
> http://www.home-barista.com/brewing/detailed-comparison-study-of-atago-and-vst-refractometers-t35601.html


That thread made me lose the will to live after about halfway.

JP


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jjprestidge said:


> That thread made me lose the will to live after about halfway.
> 
> JP


I think it had that effect on all of us...


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

MWJB said:


> I have some thoughts, read all the info you can, weight up the specifications of the devices & make an informed choice. Neither is cheap.
> 
> The Atago only appears to have an I-phone app. (I haven't seen it), VST's software is available on several platforms. The information supplied on the Atago site does not allow one to back calculate extraction yield (they even say that "Brix/TDS is not always indicative of yield"), this is the main reason for measuring TDS, which on it's own tells you little.
> 
> The test methodology for Socratic Coffee's part II test is not able to establish "precision" for the devices tested, whether it be absolute, or relative precision.


Don't you just get the tds reading, put the number into VST's Coffeetools, together with dose and weight and that calculates EY?

JP


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jjprestidge said:


> Don't you just get the tds reading, put the number into VST's Coffeetools, together with dose and weight and that calculates EY?
> 
> JP


Sounds about right to me, surely TDS is TDS


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jjprestidge said:


> Don't you just get the tds reading, put the number into VST's Coffeetools, together with dose and weight and that calculates EY?
> 
> JP


Yes, you do.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jjprestidge said:


> Don't you just get the tds reading, put the number into VST's Coffeetools, together with dose and weight and that calculates EY?
> 
> JP


You don't need even need coffeetools to calc EY if you know TDS and your brew recipe. Although I was told that it does do some clever adjustments to get it even more accurate.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Yes, you do.


So the issue is the accuracy of the tds reading, given you can buy coffeetools relatively inexpensively?

JP


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

http://store.vstapps.com/collections/vst-coffee-espresso-software


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Do keep in mind that the VST software for Windows looks / works like it's been designed in the 90s. Not sure how it compares to the Mac version.

T.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)




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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

dsc said:


> Do keep in mind that the VST software for Windows looks / works like it's been designed in the 90s. Not sure how it compares to the Mac version.
> 
> T.


True, the windows version is poor! Android version isn't far behind. ...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dsc said:


> Do keep in mind that the VST software for Windows looks / works like it's been designed in the 90s. Not sure how it compares to the Mac version.
> 
> T.


There are screen shots at VST's site & on the Boffin thread.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> True, the windows version is poor! Android version isn't far behind. ...


"Poor" in performance, or aesthetics? It is a tool a the end of the day.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I'd say ease of use and aesthetics. Pleasant interface isn't hard to do, so I'm a bit shocked at how 'retarded' the application for Windows is. Seems like Mac / Iphone / Apple is the main priority for VST.

T.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dsc said:


> I'd say ease of use and aesthetics. Pleasant interface isn't hard to do, so I'm a bit shocked at how 'retarded' the application for Windows is. Seems like Mac / Iphone / Apple is the main priority for VST.
> 
> T.


Given their product development history , that might not come as a total shock...

http://vstapps.com/about/


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Indeed, didn't realise that, still imho there's no excuse for poor interface, especially if you pay for the software.

Regards,

T.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

MWJB said:


> "Poor" in performance, or aesthetics? It is a tool a the end of the day.


Could say that about many things, machines, tampers etc... it looks nice on mac and has sliding bars that are easy to use, android version took me quite some time to work out. Just saying...


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> Could say that about many things, machines, tampers etc... it looks nice on mac and has sliding bars that are easy to use, android version took me quite some time to work out. Just saying...


You can force nails in with a rock, doesn't mean it's a joy to do

T.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

dsc said:


> You can force nails in with a rock, doesn't mean it's a joy to do
> 
> T.


Unless you are spazbarista


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## mazi (Jan 21, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> I tried one next to my vst,.. I would check the thread of Hb , the test was a bit " flawed "


So what are the differences between coffee and espresso readings for refractometers that you had?


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## goodq (Oct 10, 2011)

Thought this was interesting as well. Since it compares the Atago agains the newer VST LAB III

http://www.gumtree.com/p/coffee-machines/victoria-arduino-coffee-grinder-mythos-1-/1118936873


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

@Mrboots2u what results did you get when you compared the VST and Atago?


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