# not sure if machine is working as it should



## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

I am trying to hone my coffee making skills on my newly purchased gaagia baby dose. I am no expert but I am not impressed with the results thus far and am not sure if the fault is something I am doing wrong or not.

I don't think its any better than the cafetiere I am used to..

My problem is the espresso takes a little bitter and vertually no crema is produced. I watch the espresso coming out and its dark colored for not long several seconds at most then it comes out in a foamy wattery way which I dont think is crema because once the machine stops the color quickly changes to all black/brown like a glass of guiness changes after pouring, its left with a very very small skim at best of crema on top. I have followed the manual and tried varying my technique by changing the amount of grounds in the porter filter. also tamping more/less. I understand you want a consistent tamp through the grounds. If I try to put more coffee into the porter filter the taste is stronger and more bitter. More tamping makes it a little better but barely noticeable.

My grounds are ground in a coffee shop which they use on their machine so that should be alright









I have not got a home grinder to experiment with this variable yet.

Sorry for the long winded explainations, i thought it might help to be accurate.

I didn't know it could be such a tricky proceedure to get right to make a 'good' coffee.

If the espresso takes a little bitter does it mean the grounds are being burnt?

the espresso is pretty hot right out of the machine..

Any advise as to improving technique using a gaagia baby, idea where I am going wrong with regards to getting a bitter espresso with little crema?

Thanks in advance

Dave


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## 5M Coffee (Jul 18, 2009)

Hi Dave

Welcome to Coffee Forums and thanks for your detailed post.

The Gaggia Baby Dose is capable of producing a nice espresso so don't despair.

Do you have a set of digital kitchen scales?

Start by weighing out your coffee (approx 14g for a double espresso)

At this stage start by making doubles and worry about making single espressos later as there is a slightly different technique for these.

Next, using a tamper (58mm base for your portafilter), level and tamp.

The recommended pressure is 30psi but this can vary considerably depending on the grind and a number of other factors.

The main thing to focus on is getting the tamp level so water doesn't channel in one area.

Try not to knock the sides of the portafilter too much and avoid tamping, then adding more ground coffee.

The temperature of the water from the grouphead should be about 92-96c so will be extremely hot.

Run the water for about 25 seconds. You should have approx 60mm of liquid (30mls per shot)

The bitter taste could be due to adding too little coffee to the portafilter or running the water through the beans for too long. Temperature plays a factor but is just one variable.

How fresh is the coffee you are using? Try to use coffee that is 5-20 days past roast date and ensure that the pre-ground coffee you have is stored in an airtight container (or ideally one with a one-way valve)

The grind may be a little too coarse. When grind it between thumb and forefinger can you feel identifiable lumps or does it almost vanish?

I look forward to following your progress.


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks a lot for your post its very helpful. I purchased an iberial mc2 grinder and a proper tamper online, rather than the plastic one supplied. Also some fresh beans to try as the ground I have is over a month old now, which I now feel may be the contributing factor. With a fresh grind and proper tamper I will post back (before christmas I hope







) if I get a half decent espresso or not! Thanks again dave


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

Best of luck Dave. You will find that it takes some adjustment to get the perfect conditions for the perfect coffee, and often can require some tweaking as the beans age etc.


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

yippie the grinder, tamper and beans came and I have tried it out for a week now. Better results now







Although I think my expectations of what an espresso tasted like may have been slightly off







I had an espresso from the shop, rather than the latte I normally order. Their espresso tasted a little bitter to me also but I would say now mine seemed a little nicer than the coffee shop!! Its the same beans too. I put this down to now I only pass the water through for a shorter amount of time. I do between 5-10 seconds now. Which seems to improve things on my machine anyway. So I am pretty happy with it now mind you it does take a bit of time to make although its quite a nice to do. Just have to get a few of my friends who like a good coffee around to see what they think ^^ thanks guys


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Davey

When you say you pass the water through for a shorter amount of time (5-10 seconds) what part of the process are you referring to?

If this is the espresso extraction then this is way too short.

As a pre-extraction flush then 5 seconds is adequate.


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

Hi Glenn,

yes I am refering to espresso extraction part. thanks for highlighting it, please expain what you mean by As a pre-extraction flush then 5 seconds is adequate. I am not quite sure.

I heard around 20-25 seconds is normal for espresso extraction, Am I making an error for doing the brewing for a shorter time? my espresso tastes less bitter atm though, I actually had a few espresso rather than adding milk over the weekend. What possible downside is there to brewing for less? Otherthan possibly not getting quite as much as possible out of the grounds? but when I brew and it starts coming out the portafilter its black for a couple seconds only and by 10 seconds its seems practically just water coming out (just frothy). Forgive me if I come across as arragant, I think in a kind of boring common sense/think for myself method helps me to get a better understanding..


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Davey

Great questions and they certainly don't come across as arrogant at all.

Pre-extraction flush:

This is where you let water run through the grouphead for a few seconds before inserting the portafilter (and coffee)

When the machine is sat turned on there can be a buildup of heat and the water can become overheated.

This evens out the heat and lowers the temperature (by as much as a few degrees)

Brewing / Extraction time:

You may need to grind finer or tamp a little harder to ensure the extraction is even.

It is normal for the shot to become more golden within 10-15 seconds (after starting off almost black), but shouldn't be watery (almost clear) until all the goodness has been extracted. Quite hard to describe, easier to see and diagnose faults.

How much coffee are you putting into the portafilter?

Aim for 14-16g for a double shot

Underfilling the portafilter might also be a reason for bitter, shorter shots as there is less resistance and the water passes through quicker, and as there is a longer contact time per grind this can lead to burning the bean (hence bitter/sour flavours)

How fresh are the beans you are using?

Hope this helps


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

thanks for your answer,

I didn't know about the pre extraction flush which should help.

I think the grind I am using is quite fine. I have the iberital mc2 grinder and I have tried it on the stock setting and also finer now. If you go too fine can it adversely affect the extraction? I have just practiced tamping on some scales to get 30-40 pounds and it was a little harder pressure that I was normally doing it. Is it good if the flow is restricted a little due to the hardness of the tamp or is that going too far?

I read some people say to overfill porterfilter then tamp it down level but on my machine gaagia baby D it only takes the portafilter if you dont fill 10mm from the lip (after tamp) or else the thing wont screw in! So I normally aim to fill it so the portafilter is just able to slide around into place. I end up with grounds on the showerhead but I suspect this is normal.

The coffee I am using 1 lot from happy donkey and another lot from a local shop both bought a week ago.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

The Iberital MC2 can grind fine enough to choke your machine (so fine that when tamped the water cannot pass through the grounds)

The effect of grinding too fine or tamping too fine is that there is a longer contact time with the water and therefore the taste is affected.

If you run your hand under a hot tap fast, you don't get burnt (less contact time with the water)

However, if you leave your hand under the tap for longer you start to get burnt and may shout a few words... This is what the coffee is doing when it is being burnt too.

Bitter/Sour shots are the result (very liberal use of bitter here as sometimes bitter or sour can be good attributes too)

Using the scales, weigh the grind rather than relying on overfilling the basket and tamping as the size of the basket is another variable to control... Hopefully you are using a double and not a single basket (the last machine I bought had a single and a triple basket)


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

right yea about the weighing, I guess if you change 1 variable at a time and keep everything constant helps you know better whats going on. I just need a measure so I don't have to weight it on the scales each time.


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## gaggiamanualservice.com (Dec 22, 2009)

hi, you may need to change the grind of your coffe, the baby dose needs a very fine grind. please change your coffee or buy a burr grinder, they can produce a great grind for crema. regards


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Avoid omni-grind ground coffee as this is a half-way house between filter and espresso (about right for french press)


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## Tazz (Nov 2, 2009)

Hope this isn't a silly question but does your Gaggia have a pre-dosing charge?

My Gaggia Baby Twin does, and it means when running an espresso I get a short 2-3 second burst of water, which is supposed to wet (prime) the coffee puck. I then press the button again and it will run for about 20-23 seconds extracting a full double espresso. (The pre-dosing time can be set by the user)

As for your grinder then I have found the Iberitel grinds too finely for espresso on its finest setting and I suggest you practice on a few different grinds before reaching for rhe Nescafe

Tazz


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Re: Iberital

You will have to make the grind more coarse (do not use the finest setting) as the Iberital is capable of grinding to turkish fineness (which will choke your espresso machine)


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