# Critique?



## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Thoughts on this please? Like did I stop it too soon, too late? Anything else?






Pointers welcome


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Not sure if I've done something wrong or if it's not working for me because the weather is stormy here? Can anyone see it?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Works fine if you click the link


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Grind finer if you can. It's blonding a little too early.

The reason for the video delay is that YouTube was still processing the video


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It wasn't working earlier but if fine now.


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Good effort putting the video up. I would say that shot looks a little fast, with perhaps too much volume. You could try grinding a bit finer. How did it taste, was it a bit sour?


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Wobin19 said:


> Good effort putting the video up. I would say that shot looks a little fast, with perhaps too much volume. You could try grinding a bit finer. How did it taste, was it a bit sour?


I actually didn't taste that one on its own, then realised I should've!

I thought it was maybe a touch fast, I'll set the grinder a bit finer and try again, ta


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

By the way that's a 60ml capacity cup, and I had 17g of coffee in filter.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Tricky to say without a naked PF. I'd probably agree with Glen and say so finer. How does it taste?

I originally had shots that looked like they blonding early but it turned out to be a distribution issue that was causing channeling.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What's the coffee ? Touch fast , blondes a little early possibly , as others say touch finer . But taste it , that will always tell you where to go .


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Nijntje said:


> By the way that's a 60ml capacity cup, and I had 17g of coffee in filter.


If you do have scales try weighing the shot after. If you put the empty cup on the scales and then zero them. The shot output as a guide from 17g in should be about 27g in weight (a 1.6 brew ratio). But agree with Boots in that taste is the best guide.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> *If you do have scales try weighing the shot after*. If you put the empty cup on the scales and then zero them. The shot output as a guide from 17g in should be about 27g in weight (a 1.6 brew ratio). But agree with Boots in that taste is the best guide.


like this using 0.1g scales (£4 off ebay)


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> What's the coffee ? Touch fast , blondes a little early possibly , as others say touch finer . But taste it , that will always tell you where to go .


It's Union Revelation, I don't know it's age because it came from Ocado!


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

What's the code on the bag?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nijntje said:


> It's Union Revelation, I don't know it's age because it came from Ocado!


It's a good blend , especially for milk . But form a supermarket it might be ages a little , which is causing your fast pours.


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Glenn said:


> What's the code on the bag?


There is a tiny printed code on the base of the bag, it's barely legible though, is that what you mean?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The code relates to the roasting date. I think it's based on the Gregorian calendar. There was a thread on here about it.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

This should be it

Union-beans-supplied-to-Waitrose---I-have-the-access-codes-to-the-Zion-mainframe

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8787


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

That's good to know, will check in a minute...

Here is another attempt, quite a bit finer. Where I stopped it it weighed in at 29g.

Can you hear the pop when I switch the machine off? Is that ok?


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Also, it's drinkable. Still a little bitter but ok (I wouldn't normally drink it straight anyway).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nijntje said:


> Also, it's drinkable. Still a little bitter but ok (I wouldn't normally drink it straight anyway).


What was the dose please ? Looked a little slow coming out bitter might suggest you need to coarsen it a little ( if dose and tamp and temp were also the same ) .


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I couldn't hear your machine making the popping noise - but I could hear your kids... Sounds like my house







(mine is more manic though).

Regarding the shot.... The important thing is how did it taste? You can refine your technique based upon how it tasted.

It would be good if you could film your whole routine so we can see the distribution and tamp as well.

Did you get a naked portafilter?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The pop is the three way solenoid i think


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> The pop is the three way solenoid i think


yep that will be the sound of pressure/fluid from the basket exiting the decompression tube - all normal:good:


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I find the pop is more pronounced when you grind finer


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> What was the dose please ? Looked a little slow coming out bitter might suggest you need to coarsen it a little ( if dose and tamp and temp were also the same ) .


If it's the basket that I sent Nintje then it's a Gaggia standard 14g. 17g might be pushing it a bit.

Sorry to throw in more advice but I found that (with the Mignon) Stirring the grinds in the portafilter helped not only with breaking up the clumps but also with distribution.

I learned this after I bought a naked PF, the first few shots were like the car scene from Pulp Fiction


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

Ok so I made it finer, it got too slow, then coarser and it went to this!






(Excuse the very random background commentary)

So now too fast again! Running out of decent beans so I'll be drinking lavazza tomorrow :/

Will try and get it closer to 14g urbanbumpkin.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Nijinje. Are you temperature surfing on the classic?

Run water through the group first (before you insert PF) in order to get the boiler to fire up -the boiler is firing up when the light goes off. Use this spent water to warm the cup....not too much mind.

When the light comes back on wait 20 seconds then pull the shot.

Should give you better temp stability and consistency:good:


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nijntje said:


> Ok so I made it finer, it got too slow, then coarser and it went to this!


If you changed the dose then it affects the pour too. I try and set a few things , dose , tamp , and then move the grind around Til happy. Urban was right about 17g might have been high. So just moving this down on its own would have made the pour a bit faster without changing the grind .

Stay with it , it will come . Fix the dose and get a repeatable tamp, then get a bulk of the same bean that you like and dial it in......

It will all be good , we all go through this at the start.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Just to add with he Mignon you only need to mike tiny adjustments to change the grind when adjusting. For example to change length of shot by a few secs you only need to change the dial as little movement as you can make it. From bean to bean you will probably only ever change grind within a quarter turn. Once dialled into the right zone the Mignon is extremely stable.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Sorry for any confusion.

The basket you have can be dosed anywhere between approx 14g -16g. I thought if you're dosing 17g and were thinking of increasing it it might be too much.

There's 3 main parameters that you can change. Grind, dose and tamp.

Increasing the dose slows the shot down, decreasing it speeds it up.

Finer grind slower, coarser faster.

Harder tamp slower, coarser faster.

It's probably best to keep all of these as consistent as possible and only change 1 at a time.

On the Mignon I've found that turning the dial a 12th of a turn makes a big difference.

How much did you turn the dial between the 2 shots?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I deal in 1/8s of turns on my Mignon


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## Nijntje (Oct 2, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Sorry for any confusion.
> 
> The basket you have can be dosed anywhere between approx 14g -16g. I thought if you're dosing 17g and were thinking of increasing it it might be too much.
> 
> ...


Thanks that's really helpful.

Which brings me to my next question. I can't see any kind of marking on the mignon dial to represent the 'start' point, like if you had a a toaster dial you'd see 1-6 and a line to show your current position. So I don't have a mental frame of reference at the moment! If that makes any sense at all?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I drew one on with a pencil.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Urbans reply pulls all the bit together really. Just don't worry , we all blow through coffee at the start of when we change grinder or machine , it's all part of the fun







. Worth it tho .


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Nijntje said:


> Thanks that's really helpful.
> 
> Which brings me to my next question. I can't see any kind of marking on the mignon dial to represent the 'start' point, like if you had a a toaster dial you'd see 1-6 and a line to show your current position. So I don't have a mental frame of reference at the moment! If that makes any sense at all?


To be honest in many ways it doesn't really matter if you are just grinding for espresso as once it's in the right zone you just tweak finer or coarser, the numbers are irrelevant.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Yep it is a bit nuts.

I tend to take a reference point on the dial and then turn it a fraction of a quarter of a dial. I tend to divide this into 3, a 12th of turn.

Jeepsy was saying he adjusts in 1/8th of a turn (half of a quarter of a turn).


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

forzajuve said:


> To be honest in many ways it doesn't really matter if you are just grinding for espresso as once it's in the right zone you just tweak finer or coarser, the numbers are irrelevant.


I sometimes have a couple of beans on the go (decaff, regular espresso) so need a point of reference. Once it's dialled in I'll put 1.125 or .75 on the packet for each so i know how to set the grinder.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> we all blow through coffee at the start of when we change grinder or machine , it's all part of the fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very true, I got through a kilo of beans in no time and was using a hand grinder!


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## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Very true, I got through a kilo of beans in no time and was using a hand grinder!


and I'll second that!

We're all constantly learning!!!


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