# Black Cat Coffee blends



## Dorian (Sep 5, 2016)

Hi guys,

How do you like Black cat s blends as an Espresso?

I find the signature very bright and too acidic for espresso, challenging to extract with my europiccola, but I am getting there. Seems quite of a light roast, medium roast is stated on the bag (the website mentions medium dark roast in the description though)

Still need to play a bit with the chocolate point, sure more syrupy and less acidic but at the moment getting quite dull shots...

Am I doing something wrong? Probably yes...


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Probably. Why don't you share what you're doing, doses, warm up time, routine etc.


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## tsouthwell (Jul 17, 2020)

Dorian said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> How do you like Black cat s blends as an Espresso?
> 
> ...


 I'm also a beginner when it comes to espresso but I've also found the Early Morning and Signature blends to be less than amazing. I think part of it is my brewing but I get fantastic results with Red Brick so it can't be just that. I've really enjoyed all the single origin coffees from black cat though. I think that their espresso is just catered towards a different taste to what I prefer.


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## DrRSG (Jul 11, 2017)

Remember that you have some control over the final result. I use a b2c and have found that some blends taste better as cafe creme and others taste better as Americano with a double shot. Chase the taste with trying different doses of water and beans.


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## Dorian (Sep 5, 2016)

tsouthwell said:


> I'm also a beginner when it comes to espresso but I've also found the Early Morning and Signature blends to be less than amazing. I think part of it is my brewing but I get fantastic results with Red Brick so it can't be just that. I've really enjoyed all the single origin coffees from black cat though. I think that their espresso is just catered towards a different taste to what I prefer.


 I agree, I like very much coffee compass espresso range and rave s Italian job... Perhaps Black Cat is not for me...



Rob1 said:


> Probably. Why don't you share what you're doing, doses, warm up time, routine etc.


 For the signature blend I m dosing 14.5 grams, 30 out in 28/9 secs on a La Pavoni...plus 10 secs passive pre Infusion..GH is at 95c


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Getting good results with one blend and bad ones with another isn't confirmation one blend is better than the other. You might need to alter dose, grind, ratio, temp, pressure etc to get the best out of either. I've always found single origins easier to work with than blends for some reason. It's possible it's just a matter of taste of course as you say.

Maybe try a slightly longer pre-infusion and a longer pull (which I know can be pain on the La Pav but I always found a few pumps at the top to be best).

For the chocolate point maybe lower the temp a little or just coarsen the grind and pull at a slightly lower pressure.

I've never used either blend, just going off the taste you're describing and what I did with the La Pav and would still do now with my current machine. It's possible you're doing everything right with the signature and just don't like the acidity. I'd think the "dull shots" are a result of extraction problems though. Maybe time to refresh the water in the boiler if you haven't already.


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## Dorian (Sep 5, 2016)

Thank you for the advice @Rob1

Yeah totally, I must have over-extracted the chocolate point, coming from the signature the grind was too fine and the temperature too high.

I ll play with it again tomorrow morning, I m quite sure it can improve.

About the signature, I don t know. I think I reached a good balance today with the acidity ( still high for my taste though ) but didn t get a lot of other notes... I wish it was roasted slightly darker


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## Arabidopsis (Mar 28, 2020)

I noticed that for most coffees, I get a lot better shots when I start the pull with a group head temperature of 85C. It then creeps up during the shot to 90-95C. Also for me I seem to prefer slightly longer shots, generally 14.5g in and output of 32-34g.
I actually preferred the Signature as a pour over and their Rwandan peaberry as an espresso which really brought out the blueberry.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I had two bags of Black Cat thanks to the forum offer. One was a single origin, the other Signature. I couldn't really discern coffee from the SO let alone 'notes' in a flat white but the family said it was OK. The sig was better once I'd upped the dose to 20g. Didn't find it too acidic but TBH they were both much too light for me. Lesson learned.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Dorian said:


> I agree, I like very much coffee compass espresso range and rave s Italian job... Perhaps Black Cat is not for me...
> 
> For the signature blend I m dosing 14.5 grams, 30 out in 28/9 secs on a La Pavoni...plus 10 secs passive pre Infusion..GH is at 95c


 Not the chocolate point but a very similar mix I made myself, I pre-infuse as 80C at the GH and pull when it hits 88


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## Dorian (Sep 5, 2016)

Rob666 said:


> I had two bags of Black Cat thanks to the forum offer. One was a single origin, the other Signature. I couldn't really discern coffee from the SO let alone 'notes' in a flat white but the family said it was OK. The sig was better once I'd upped the dose to 20g. Didn't find it too acidic but TBH they were both much too light for me. Lesson learned.


 Thanks @Rob666, what s your 'to go' bag when it comes to espresso?

I m always up to try new roasters...sometimes I should stick with the ones I tried and liked


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Hope you manage to get to grips with them @Dorian Feel free to drop me a PM if you would like.

I have often wondered if our blends are a touch on the dark side to be honest so this thread makes an interesting read!

David


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Dorian said:


> Thanks @Rob666, what your 'to go' bag when it comes to espresso?
> 
> I m always up to try new roasters...sometimes I should stick with the ones I tried and liked


 Goto these days is Smokey Joe's Coffee from Coffee Direct. If not that then for something lighter, Indonesia Somatra from Limini. Otherwise i use Coffee Compass, Tusker is a favourite and so are Old Brown Java and Rancheros Mahogany Roast.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Hope you manage to get to grips with them @Dorian Feel free to drop me a PM if you would like.
> 
> I have often wondered if our blends are a touch on the dark side to be honest so this thread makes an interesting read!
> 
> David


 Seriously? I thought they were very much on the light side, even the ones advertised as dark.


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## tsouthwell (Jul 17, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Hope you manage to get to grips with them @Dorian Feel free to drop me a PM if you would like.
> 
> I have often wondered if our blends are a touch on the dark side to be honest so this thread makes an interesting read!
> 
> David


 Its weird - I think I had the opposite problem to @Dorian. I find the coffee a bit too dark and it reminds me of 'classic' italian espresso in a way. Not bad just not what I prefer. I loved your blue mountain though and your decaf is the best I've tried. Do you think that your Colombian Bourbon would be a good coffee for me to try next?


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Having my first Black Cat experience at the moment with the Chocolate Point. I drink cappuccino and so does my wife, who normally needs half a spoon of agave nectar to sweeten her coffee. My wife doesn't need the agave with the Chocolate Point and we're both agreed it's the best one we've tried yet. Love it.

Got some Signature Blend in the freezer for my next batch, but will defo be a Chocolate Point regular


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## SafetyThird (Aug 16, 2020)

This is really interesting reading. Just ordered half a kg each of Signature and Chocolate point and a small Las Palamas. This will be for my first espresso machine and I don't really have an educated palate yet, so fascinating to see how differently folks taste the same coffee.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Rob666 said:


> Seriously? I thought they were very much on the light side, even the ones advertised as dark.


 Yep for sure. It is amazing how peoples perspective is different. It is a really interesting topic and @tsouthwell comment after yours is the perfect illustration. I am not suggesting someone is right or wrong but it is just so tricky to get across the roast level online.

I often wonder how best to represent it with a couple of words or a scale. I am not sure I have seen or can think of an elegant solution!

David


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

tsouthwell said:


> Its weird - I think I had the opposite problem to @Dorian. I find the coffee a bit too dark and it reminds me of 'classic' italian espresso in a way. Not bad just not what I prefer. I loved your blue mountain though and your decaf is the best I've tried. Do you think that your Colombian Bourbon would be a good coffee for me to try next?


 I absolutely love that Colombia. If you enjoy funk and fruit then give it a shot.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Yep for sure. It is amazing how peoples perspective is different. It is a really interesting topic and @tsouthwell comment after yours is the perfect illustration. I am not suggesting someone is right or wrong but it is just so tricky to get across the roast level online.
> 
> I often wonder how best to represent it with a couple of words or a scale. I am not sure I have seen or can think of an elegant solution!
> 
> David


 It's very difficult. Some people do it with a row of beans. In fact I think that's what you do. The problem is one person's idea of dark is not necessarily the same as someone else's. I am definitely on the "Dark Side Of Life" but that said I prefer beans that are not cremated or too oily. A hard balance to achieve.


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## tsouthwell (Jul 17, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I absolutely love that Colombia. If you enjoy funk and fruit then give it a shot.


 I will - sounds like exactly what I want


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## Mpbradford (Jan 28, 2020)

I think there is added complexity. You can have dark on the outside, light in the middle. And the opposite.

That means 4 possible combinations.

Best to compare roast level on the ground, rather than the bean and then would be great to see pictures of perceived light and dark roast at the ground level.

Light and dark should also mention the brew method. Light for espresso is probably dark for filter. Light for filter is likely impossible for espresso (for normal folks with fixed pressure extraction)

Good topic🙂


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Yup that is very true. I actually wrote a post about this last night including some info on agtron numbers but I thought it might be a little too nerdy!

As a great example we currently have a Monsooned Malabar on that is so light in its raw state it is almost yellow in colour. We roast this MM to the highest temperature of any SO I have ever offered and it is a slower roast too. The final colour is somewhere around a milk chocolate. Contrast that with the natural process Costa Rica we have on, that is really dark in colour in its green unroasted state and after roasting is almost dark chocolate in colour yet the profile is a minute or so shorter than the MM and the drop temperature a fair bit lower.

Some people have asked me to include agtron numbers as a way to understand roast levels and this is why I do not. They are a great tool for the roaster to get consistent results but the numbers are most useful when talking about roast levels for the same coffee.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

How is the taste compared with ' normal' M M ? slightly lighter ? not quite so bold ?


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> How is the taste compared with ' normal' M M ? slightly lighter ? not quite so bold ?


 It depends on how you define a normal MM. MM I have tried from some large companies and supermarkets tends to be roasted super dark and oily to the point that I find some rancid almost fishy type aromas on opening and ashy flavours in the cup.

Our MM has earthy, spicy notes with some chocolate sweetness and (this is quite specific, apologies) an aroma of how a quality raw pipe tobacco smells.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Will be on my list to try :good:


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Just got in to BlackCat's Chocolate Point Blend so just to add my two cents - very nice, I'm enjoying it.

Flavour exactly as advertised, it's sweet, chocolate-y, light fudge comes through and a nutty aftertaste. It's a 'heavy' drink I found, but low acidity and sweet in the Northern Italian style.


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## thawhat (Jul 29, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Just got in to BlackCat's Chocolate Point Blend so just to add my two cents - very nice, I'm enjoying it.
> 
> Flavour exactly as advertised, it's sweet, chocolate-y, light fudge comes through and a nutty aftertaste. It's a 'heavy' drink I found, but low acidity and sweet in the Northern Italian style.


 Got a kilo of this in the airscape ready for use. Just wondering... how long did you rest them for and what ratio/time have you ended up with?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

thawhat said:


> Got a kilo of this in the airscape ready for use. Just wondering... how long did you rest them for and what ratio/time have you ended up with?


 Rested for 13/14 days, that's what I use as standard unless I hear otherwise from roaster/mess up my ordering schedule. Always at least 10/11 days.

Ratio, I went with 1:3 over 36 seconds I think. May have been 34 but I didn't write it down. I prefer 1:3 but that's just me and a few others on the forum I read recently. I don't know whether it's the machine or the coffee, but most coffees taste better that way to me so I've just gone with it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Yep for sure. It is amazing how peoples perspective is different. It is a really interesting topic and @tsouthwell comment after yours is the perfect illustration. I am not suggesting someone is right or wrong but it is just so tricky to get across the roast level online.


 I suppose photos of the beans in a row showing the roast levels together with a* known reference colour (they all have or can quickly get) *to allow for different monitors so people can mentally adjust for what they are seeing.

Another surprise for me is how many larger roasters don't use the opportunity of the Label on the coffee to help customers understand roast levels. This can be printed and colour corrected to show a row of beans with your roast level number against each one. This way they are all looking at the same thing.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

I just finished a kg of chocolate point and it was very nice. I actually ended up settling on 15g 1:1 ratio in about 35 seconds to go with milk.


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## Emmodd (Sep 23, 2015)

Michael87 said:


> I just finished a kg of chocolate point and it was very nice. I actually ended up settling on 15g 1:1 ratio in about 35 seconds to go with milk.


Thats interesting. Just taken delivery and I'm usually a little under 2:1 kind of guy for espresso with milk type drinks.

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk


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## TimTamps (Jan 16, 2021)

Just ordered 500g of Chocolate Point - Looking forward to trying it, now I've finished the last of the Pact Zaroca. The new GC and Specialita managed 17g in, 34g out in 24.2s today: not bad at all, but get the feeling I'll benefit from the OPV kit (waiting to be installed) and PID (waiting to purchase) from Mr Shades.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

We have a kg each of chocolate point and signature blend. We grind them fine at 1.3 on FX Pro for AP. The former is 18g for 115 g water for 2 mins brew, while we had to up the dose to 20g for 125g water - 1:5.5 + 15g additional water - for 2.5 mins. We plan to experiment a bit coarser for 4 mins and perhaps increase the chocolate point dose to 20g as well.

Both go very well with milk.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> supermarkets tends to be roasted super dark and oily to the point that I find some rancid almost fishy type aromas on opening and ashy flavours in the cup


 This has just made my day! Wife bought me some coffee (she thought I ran out but had hid the drug drop you did of 1kg (wife thinks it's drugs how its delivered 🤣)

Any way I opened up her coffee to humour her and 🤮🤮🤮🤮 fish smell, was absolutely vile... glad it is not just me! I actually took the time to inform them as I thought it was a bad batch 🤷‍♂️


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

I'm opening a bag of Twilight Blend tomorrow. Any indications on relative grind adjustment compared against Chocolate Point? On a Eureka Mignon Specialita if we want to get super specific...


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Kjk said:


> I'm opening a bag of Twilight Blend tomorrow. Any indications on relative grind adjustment compared against Chocolate Point? On a Eureka Mignon Specialita if we want to get super specific...


 I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Twilight Blend once you've had a few drinks of it. BlackCat next roaster or two up for me, was thinking about getting that coffee.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I've had that fishy aroma from very dark roasts too. Not pleasant at all


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> I'd be interested to hear what you think of the Twilight Blend once you've had a few drinks of it. BlackCat next roaster or two up for me, was thinking about getting that coffee.


 Dialled it in this morning and it is dark and rich think 95% cacao chocolate dark. I think I'd prefer it most as an espresso or a short Americano. There is a lot of richness and depth but I think milk masks it. Note the website recommends dropping temp to 90c and pulling with declining pressure (I can do the temp but have set my OPV lower - 8bar).

Espresso - very rich and dark, great dark toffee/brown sugar finish, it goes on and on.

Americado - a new invention - drink half a shot and top up with hot water, just expanded the layers of flavour and brought some more length to the finish.

Flat White - good complexity but quite muted - I had to concentrate to appreciate the flavours. I think I'm looking for a bit more brightness/acidity for use in milk drinks (makes sense if you read the label).

Obligatory photos below.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> I suppose photos of the beans in a row showing the roast levels together with a* known reference colour (they all have or can quickly get) *to allow for different monitors so people can mentally adjust for what they are seeing.
> 
> Another surprise for me is how many larger roasters don't use the opportunity of the Label on the coffee to help customers understand roast levels. This can be printed and colour corrected to show a row of beans with your roast level number against each one. This way they are all looking at the same thing.


 This would be great, I often struggle to find roast level information. I use the tasting notes now and steer clear of fruity, zesty coffee's as I've found that they don't go well with milk. (or is this just me?)


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

@Kjk Wow thanks, I was not expecting such a detailed and expansive review, thank you!

It sounds like it will be a 'comfort coffee' for me as I have Americano with a little milk. So I won't get the depth but will get a solid drink. Thanks again, I'll stick it on the list.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> @Kjk Wow thanks, I was not expecting such a detailed and expansive review, thank you!
> 
> It sounds like it will be a 'comfort coffee' for me as I have Americano with a little milk. So I won't get the depth but will get a solid drink. Thanks again, I'll stick it on the list.


 I pulled shorter this morning and it stood up in a flat white pretty well. It was very nice as a black americano. The taste is definitely growing on me. I think Chocolate Point may be a better all rounder but this is great for those dark flavours - very well developed yet not crossing into burnt.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Kjk said:


> Dialled it in this morning and it is dark and rich think 95% cacao chocolate dark. I think I'd prefer it most as an espresso or a short Americano. There is a lot of richness and depth but I think milk masks it. Note the website recommends dropping temp to 90c and pulling with declining pressure (I can do the temp but have set my OPV lower - 8bar).
> 
> Espresso - very rich and dark, great dark toffee/brown sugar finish, it goes on and on.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the review. What about brew/pour over please ?


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Thanks for the review. What brew/pour over please ?


 I wouldn't go there with this one - think it may be too dark/roasty. I am loving their Guatemalan Atitlan after a long steep in the Clever Dripper (CCD) though. Just ordered a smaller CCD (300g) for when I go back to the office.


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

I am always quite bad at resting new beans haha max I get is around 5 days rest. I tend to order new batch a bit too late as always forget to order 2 weeks early 
For Choc Point I tend to use 18g in and 36 out but may try lowering to 17g to see how it tastes.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

did you order black cat beans to the us?


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

cuprajake said:


> did you order black cat beans to the us?


He was a spammer pal, he's history now


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

thought so, was having a play with him,,,


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