# Any body tried Jailbreak from Has Bean?



## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

Hi,

I had some BOLIVIA FINCA MACHACAMARCA DE BERENGULA 2012 delivered from Has Bean but I find it far to acidic for me. I prefer my espresso to be far more smooth, so I've just ordered some of their Jailbreak and was wondering if anyone's tried it yet?

James


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I have tried both machacamarca and cachoeira seperately before Steve updated the Jailbreak blend.

At a guess I'd say if you struggled with macha, you will struggled with jailbreak because he won't take it far past the second crack.

Try slightly longer extraction times than you're used to.

Let me know how it goes, I might order some too


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## EN4CER (Jan 22, 2012)

Try then Hasbean Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira da Grama Bourbon Pulped Natural 2012... Its Fantastic


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

fatboyslim said:


> At a guess I'd say if you struggled with macha, you will struggled with jailbreak because he won't take it far past the second crack.


 Sorry, what do you mean by second crack?


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

Also, if anyone can recommend a really smooth espresso coffee from Has Bean that would be great!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

jimmyfingers said:


> Sorry, what do you mean by second crack?


This refers to the roast. Just in to the second cracks is a lightish roast. The cracks are an audible cracking noise whilst roasting and the second crack is an indicator that you have reached a certain point in the roast.

What I meant was that the Jailbreak blend will have a similar roast to macha.

The acidity you refer to comes from such a light roast so you may find Jailbreak too acidic.

My advice is to use slightly less coffee, a finer grind and a longer extraction time.


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

Ah I see, thank you.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I found the Bolivia Finca Machacamarca de Berengula 2012 superb for espresso. Really well rounded and balanced with just a hint of acidity. Maybe I was doing something wrong or my tastebuds are out!


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

I've only tried the pre ground, no grinder yet !


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

xiuxiuejar said:


> I found the Bolivia Finca Machacamarca de Berengula 2012 superb for espresso. Really well rounded and balanced with just a hint of acidity. Maybe I was doing something wrong or my tastebuds are out!


No it's probably me and my poor technique! My runthroughs are a little quick at twenty seconds.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

[quote=fatboyslim;.

The acidity you refer to comes from such a light roast so you may find Jailbreak too acidic.

My advice is to use slightly less coffee, a finer grind and a longer extraction time.

Why would a finer grind and longer extraction produce less acid??


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## Russ (Nov 15, 2011)

Hi James

I got Jailbreak, Bolivia Finca Machacamara and Brazil Fazenda Cachoeria last week, just to try Hasbeans offerings before I committed to one of their subscriptions.

I'm pretty new to this and have only had 6-7 different bean lots before these ( from Happy Donkey and The CoffeeBeanShop, all of which I enjoyed) I'm not getting on too well with Hasbeans.

I tried the Jailbreak first, must say I found it pretty awful, far too acidic! for me. Then I tried the Bolivia, same result so put them back in the cupboard and tried the Brazil Fazenda, this too I found to be too acidic but no quite as bad. I was pretty disappointed and thought my technique must be to blame so did some reading on here. I have subsequently increased my extraction time (now 35 seconds from 27) and ground finer. I'm finding it better but it's still not there yet, I'm along way off picking up any of the flavour profiles Steve suggests. I will keep playing but I'm beginning to think I won't be subscribing unless I make a significant breakthrough. Let me know how you get on. BTW what machine are you using? Mines a Gaggia Classic, paired wit a MC2 Grinder.

Cheers

Russ


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I tried a filter starter pack from Hasbean. I'm on to the last bag now, and they have all been delicious for filter/press -- and this is what they are sold as. I did however try them in a Gaggia classic, and despite best efforts and much experimenting with variables, I only managed to get a couple good -- nay, great -- tasting espressos from them. I think as a novice they are very unforgiving but have the potential to be fantastic with a more experienced barista.

[Edit]

Just to reiterate, the beans I had were sold for filter and were consistently excellent when brewed.


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

Eyedee said:


> Why would a finer grind and longer extraction produce less acid??


 Not sure why this works, but I've also noticed a finer grind and slower extraction can reduce acidity, particularly on home machines (that might suggest temperature during the shot is an issue here, but that's total guess work).

Also, pull a slightly longer shot or use a lower dose - a high dose and low volume shot (ristretto) will taste more sweet and acidic, a low dose and large volume shot (lungo) will have low perceived acidity but increased bitterness.


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

Russ said:


> (now BTW what machine are you using? Mines a Gaggia Classic, paired wit a MC2 Grinder.
> 
> Russ


I'm also using a Gaggia Classic, with a Rancilio Rocky grinder. Also a bottomless filter from HD. My antics with this bottomless basket can be seen here: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?5266-First-attempt-with-naked-portafilter


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## jimmyfingers (Jan 28, 2012)

RolandG said:


> Also, pull a slightly longer shot or use a lower dose - a high dose and low volume shot (ristretto) will taste more sweet and acidic, a low dose and large volume shot (lungo) will have low perceived acidity but increased bitterness.


I'll try that in the morning, putting less coffee in the basket. I'm pulling into a small 2oz espresso cup.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I think that the people finding Hasbeans coffees acidic should basically go for 'Italian dark roasts' and Italian blends and probably not from HasBean. The darker roasts will produce consistantly low acidic, full bodied shots but with no surprises. This is not bad if it's what you are looking for. In the end, everybody should be drinking coffees that make them smile, make them happy, take them to those magical places.

In the end we all have different tastes and maybe we don't like the same things but that's the wonderful world of coffee.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

jimmyfingers said:


> Also, if anyone can recommend a really smooth espresso coffee from Has Bean that would be great!


 As others have said, if you like the Italian style of espresso or dark roasts generally, HasBean is probably not the best place for you (or me!). The closest thing I think they do to a traditional espresso is Breakfast Bomb (which actually has a bit of robusta in it). It's marketed as a caffeine hit but, personally, it is one of the few of Steve's coffees that I've really enjoyed. As mentioned in other posts here, if you like darker roasts try Union Hand Roasted.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

xiuxiuejar said:


> I think that the people finding Hasbeans coffees acidic should basically go for 'Italian dark roasts' and Italian blends


I would agree, but people should understand that there is definitely a middle-ground where the roast is not dark, but still has balanced level of sourness.



Eyedee said:


> Why would a finer grind and longer extraction produce less acid??


At the first part of the pour, the sour acids are extracted (think lemon, vinegar). This is followed by a more balanced coffee mixture which is later followed by a more thinner, bitter taste (think paracetamol, hairspray!). To show this, pour a shot and split it into two glasses during the shot and compare them.

By extending the shot you increase the overall extraction. The finer grind increases the rate that the coffee extracts, but also slows the rate of water flow due to increased resistance to passing water.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

rodabod said:


> I would agree, but people should understand that there is definitely a middle-ground where the roast is not dark, but still has balanced level of sourness.


I agree. I like Hasbean coffees and roasts. I think they are dark roast as they are probably into the second crack, they are just not those intensely dark roasts. I find that when my technique os good, I produce the best shots with hasbean Indonesian and South American beans. However, when I'm off, my grind not correct or the temperature out, then I produce an overly acid drink. That is my fault.

However, some people just prefer those deep dark espresso roasts.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Regarding the colour/crack of the roast though, I've had beans from other roasters which aren't dark either, but don't have that same sourness for espresso. I wonder if it's down to how fast the beans get cooked.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I don't know -as I said, when I am good, the coffee seems good. It's when I'm bad that the coffee tastes like lemon juice. I never seem to find those chocolates in their coffee anymore but then I don't like those really syrupy extractions so I dose to get a one ounce extraction in 23 seconds in single and a double in around 28 seconds. This usually means I get nice shots, approppriate crema (not half a cup) but not that really thick extraction.

I just think we are all different, drinkers, baristas, clients and roasters and we all have our styles and our preferences.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

I think it might be worth pushing the boundaries that others seem to have set when struggling at all with any beans. That's partly what I'm doing with this SM Red Brick at the moment; eg. pouring 40g instead of the recommended 30g.

The fact that the Hasbean beans tend to work well in filter and Aeropress makes me think they may need more extraction in espresso.


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## Russ (Nov 15, 2011)

How far can the boundaries be pushed?

Using Happy Donkey Brazilian beans I was pulling what I considered to be good double shots in 27 seconds using 14 grams of coffee.

The Hasbean ones taste awful (acidic) to me at this settings with little crema. So far I've worked up the dose rate up to 18g and pulling the shots at 35 seconds, to me this seems to be giving better results (with good crema) but still not what I'd call fantastic. I'll next try reducing the grind a little but how far can I push things? is pulling a shot in 40+ secs considered acceptable? I'm thinking I need to purchase darker roasts in future.....

Cheers

Russ


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Maybe try 14g in 38 seconds?

Probably the best extraction I ever got from my favourite Has Bean coffee (Macha) was around 38-40 second extraction dosing 14g.


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## Russ (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks

I'll work back towards 14g in 38 seconds and see how that tastes.

Russ


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## Russ (Nov 15, 2011)

OK

I tried 14g and 38 seconds, got a slightly short double shot, if I'd kept going for 40 ish seconds I'd have probably hit the volume.

Result! I think, acidity much reduced and I can now detect toffee flavors, thanks fatboyslim!

Shame I've only got about 30g left.......still I hope I can get a similar result with the Finca Machacamarca that I put back in the cupboard after initial disappointment.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Russ said:


> How far can the boundaries be pushed?


Lots. Give it a try where applicable.

I've pulled shots in 60s before. Wouldn't usually go less than 20s though.

The simple fact is, if it's sour, then either it's under-extracted or the bean doesn't suit. You have to work with every bean you use to get it "right". Right grind, right weight of grounds, right brew duration, right brew weight. Some of those variables have a direct impact on others.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Russ said:


> Using Happy Donkey Brazilian beans I was pulling what I considered to be good double shots in 27 seconds using 14 grams of coffee.
> 
> The Hasbean ones taste awful (acidic) to me at this settings with little crema. So far I've worked up the dose rate up to 18g and pulling the shots at 35 seconds, to me this seems to be giving better results (with good crema) but still not what I'd call fantastic. I'll next try reducing the grind a little but how far can I push things? is pulling a shot in 40+ secs considered acceptable? I'm thinking I need to purchase darker roasts in future....


 Well, it may not be that you are doing anything wrong, it may be just a matter of taste. I thought it was me not getting the best out of the beans but when Blake (absurdly marketed as "old school") tasted the same at my local coffee shop I just came to the conclusion that blend was not for me.

I now avoid coffee shops using HasBean beans - and friends of mine have expressed a similar dislike of that style of coffee. Many, of course, will disagree - but, in the end, coffee should be a pleasure, not a test.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Russ said:


> OK
> 
> I tried 14g and 38 seconds, got a slightly short double shot, if I'd kept going for 40 ish seconds I'd have probably hit the volume.
> 
> ...


It took me an entire bag of Macha to work out how to extract it properly. Second bag is on order









I think the technical term for Has Bean coffees is "difficult". I believe it is possible to get a fantastic shot with huge acidity from a lighter roast as long as it is *balanced* by huge sweetness and creamy mouthfeel.

Alternatively do what I've done. Buy Has Bean coffees as green beans and try and roast them yourself. I bought a popcorn maker off ebay for £4 and had great results so far. I literally can't wait to roast macha.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

rodabod said:


> Regarding the colour/crack of the roast though, I've had beans from other roasters which aren't dark either, but don't have that same sourness for espresso. I wonder if it's down to how fast the beans get cooked.


No, it's down to the variety of bean. Traditional old fashioned northern Italian blends aren't dark roast, but are heavy with low acid beans (Brazil usually). Other beans, like Kenyan or some Ethiopean have high acidity.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

But the roast profile does make a difference too.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

What I have found with Hasbean is that you have to get the grind and temperature right. I don't mind so much as I love some acidity in my coffee but I also like body and unfortunately, quite often the acidity is detracting from the body. One of my favourite SO is Kalosi Toraja which is very acidic but usually has a lot of body. I found myself disappointed with the lack of body in this coffee although the shots are good.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

I've had (and am currently drinking) African beans which are not sour. Yet for example, one of the blends I'm also drinking just now (Red Brick) is El Salvador/Guatemala is relatively more sour when I would have expected the opposite. I've assumed, maybe incorrectly, that it's down to the roast. I've not tried roasting myself (hope I don't start!).


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Sourness is associated with a low extraction (kinda like weak but not quite). Raising the strength (by extracting more from the same dose of grinds) reduces sourness. Brewing hotter, grinding finer, etc etc, all these things that get more of the coffee solids into the cup, they help. Although light roasts are prone to sourness, I believe that is often down to baristas not adjusting their technique to those specific beans. I can't blame the roaster if I don't extract them properly.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Have you listened to this http://boos.audioboo.fm/attachments/1066339/what-warrants-a-darker-roast.mp3?audio_clip_id=323351


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Have you listened to this http://boos.audioboo.fm/attachments/1066339/what-warrants-a-darker-roast.mp3?audio_clip_id=323351


Controversial but exactly right in my view.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I totally agree with everything he says. If I am good, the coffee I produce is good. Most times we find sour shots, it's our mistake or the charactaristic of the bean itself. It is very easy to over roast coffee and make constant shots but I also soaid it before, these shots have no surprises, no high notes. Acidity is part of the balance of a coffee, as much a part as body or chocolate etc. I also like Has Bean because of the quality of the bean.

However, a caveat, many people would go to a restaurant and ask for their beef to be well-done - which is totally their choice and their preference. Also, the people who got into espresso because of their experiences in Italy may disagree - they search that roasty flavour, kick and body.

In my opinion, there is enough room for everybody in the world of coffee.

****EDIT****

I just also wanted to edit my post because I have been a little critical (very little) of Hasbean's Kalosi because of it's missing body. However, I have to say I have drunk a kilo in 2 weeks because everything else is delicious. I'm sitting here now, an hour after my last espresso and I still have that beautiful aftertaste which Indonesians give. That makes me smile ) !


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

It's perfectly valid point of view, but it is only one point of view. I happen to love the Italian style of espresso and although I'm sure Steve is absolutely correct in saying that dark roasting kills or obscures some of the more subtle flavours I actually don't like some of those flavours the lower roasts reveal. I would love to see Steve apply his skills and enthusiasm to the Italian style (they did, after all, invent espresso and the machinery that makes it possible).

Of course there is room in the coffee world for a vast variety of taste. I only get concerned when there is an implication (not so much on this site, but elsewhere) that if you haven't fully embraced the 'third wave' of roasters and the lighter styles you are somehow unsophisticated, hopelessly reactionary or just lacking in taste.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Have you listened to this http://boos.audioboo.fm/attachments/1066339/what-warrants-a-darker-roast.mp3?audio_clip_id=323351


For me, Steve's philosophy is bang on. I get what he is saying (using food analogies helped greatly) and it makes complete sense.

It took a little understanding of lighter roast coffees but I think they are just more difficult to understand because dark roasts are easier to extract more pleasant caramels and sweetness where as lighter roasts have the potential to be far superior but won't instantly be sweet and tasty.

I think people who have written off Has Bean as 'too light' should at least give Steve the benefit of the doubt and try again to use his fantastic coffees.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

fatboyslim said:


> I think people who have written off Has Bean as 'too light' should at least give Steve the benefit of the doubt and try again to use his fantastic coffees.


 OK, just how many bags of Steve's coffee do I have to buy before I'm allowed to move on to another roaster? I've tried about 10 different blends/beans, some I like better than others, none would I rush out to buy again.

Why should I want coffee that is 'difficult to understand'? Why can't I buy coffee that just gives me pleasure?

I do find this attitude slightly patronising. Saying "coffee is difficult to understand" is like saying it's a work of great literature I'm too thick to appreciate.

For months I tried to fool myself I was beginning to like this coffee. I'm now relieved to admit that I don't.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> Controversial but exactly right in my view.


Caveat: I didn't listen to it all (that accent makes it worse than Vogon poetry), therefore I may have missed something vital

My view entirely coincides with what parts I heard him say, ie. some beans (he gave the example of Java) don't develop their flavours until they get a big darker, whereas some other beans lose the delicate flavours if you roast dark. Nothing controversial in that. I called in at a coffee roaster I know (who does some great stuff) and asked for a sample of his Kenyan Peaberry. The moment I saw it I commented that it looked too dark, and he admitted that he struggled to control the roast without it running away. Sure enough when I tasted it the floral qualities were not there.

This is pretty unequivocal, and I don't think it's a controversial issue.

The controversy comes in when you start talking about what method that coffee is to be brewed by, and specifically if it is to be espresso. For me, it isn't even a question of roast level, it's bean variety. There is no point putting delicate acidic beans through a dark roast, none at all. For me, I'd rather they weren't in espresso blends in anything other than small quantities.

I do think, when it comes to Hasbean, that a lot of their coffees are rather anodyne. I had a 12 month subscription and all but one were central American and had the same bland taste. The one thing you can't accuse Hasbean of is failing to hype their own wares and I think sometimes people are too eager to accept what the supplier is telling you about their product rather than trust their own judgement and taste buds.

I wouldn't say the same of Square Mile. I'll be frank and say I don't like the espresso their blend and so beans create, but the beans themselves are really good quality and roasted to perfection. They taste bloody good as filter coffee.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

RoloD said:


> OK, just how many bags of Steve's coffee do I have to buy before I'm allowed to move on to another roaster? I've tried about 10 different blends/beans, some I like better than others, none would I rush out to buy again.
> 
> Why should I want coffee that is 'difficult to understand'? Why can't I buy coffee that just gives me pleasure?
> 
> ...


I didn't mean to sound patronizing RoloD, sorry if I did.

Basically what I meant is the way I understand how Steve is roasting is that sure a dark roast can be delicious, chocolaty with fantastic caramels as well as being easy to dial in but what it is lacking is fruity/floral qualities which can only be had by the acidic components of a fantastic bean, best brought out by a lighter roast.

A friend of mine described Machacamarca (as espresso) as being thrown around the room with intense and wonderful flavours. A great description of what simply the best coffee I've ever tasted.

For me a dark roast could never have that intensity of flavour or balance. And to prove this I have bought some Macha green bean to roast myself a little darker than Steve does as a fair comparison.

But don't let anyone force you to like something you can't get on with. Espresso should be enjoyable after all.

Think of it this way, some people don't like any coffee or anything to do with coffee. I'm not going to force these people to like coffee (but I might try)


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Packet of jailbreak just arrived, along with a trusty bag of Blake, I hate the few days wait!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

fatboyslim said:


> I didn't mean to sound patronizing RoloD, sorry if I did.
> 
> Basically what I meant is the way I understand how Steve is roasting is that sure a dark roast can be delicious, chocolaty with fantastic caramels as well as being easy to dial in but what it is lacking is fruity/floral qualities which can only be had by the acidic components of a fantastic bean, best brought out by a lighter roast.
> 
> ...


 I probably over-reacted a little there.

I think I'm partly playing the devil's advocate as an antidote to Steve's hype machine (and the very best of luck to him - he has a fantastic business going and his service is great). And I agree with ExpoB - I've had some wonderful coffee from Square Mile (although disappointed by Red Brick) which is very much a third wave roaster - I just think they do it better than HasBean. They do, however, lack Steve's crazy charm and they are a little expensive.

In the meantime, I'm working my way through Climpsons and Union. All very different roasters who market themselves very differently - and the ones who shout loudest are not necessarily the best.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Machacamarca

I'd probably be willing to try it if I hadn't already heard Steve pronounce it. Spoilt it for me. I reckon if I bought a bag of it, every time I'd get the bag out of the fridge I'd hear that bloody voice going " Macca-ca-markah" with the brummie inflection on the 'markah'.

Puts may roit off, it duzz.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Expobarista said:


> I'd probably be willing to try it if I hadn't already heard Steve pronounce it. Spoilt it for me. I reckon if I bought a bag of it, every time I'd get the bag out of the fridge I'd hear that bloody voice going " Macca-ca-markah" with the brummie inflection on the 'markah'.
> 
> Puts may roit off, it duzz.


 I think expressing enthusiasm in a Brummie accent is a considerable achievement.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

RoloD said:


> I think expressing enthusiasm in a Brummie accent is a considerable achievement.


Hey watch it, theres nowt wrong with Brummie accents. Steve's accent is clearly Yam-yam/black country/Staffs anyway!!!!!


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

So, was I wrong to put some of my last bag of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe through the espresso machine? (That might be a rhetorical question). And no, it wasn't sour!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Anybody else here deeply uncomfortable buying coffee from a ginger?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Only a ginger can call another ginger ginger


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Except if they do it's like saying Beetlejuice three times


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Love that film


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> For me a dark roast could never have that intensity of flavour or balance. And to prove this I have bought some Macha green bean to roast myself a little darker than Steve does as a fair comparison.


I don't think that's a fair comparation. Dunno which roaster you have, but I don't think you'll get the same roast quality in your home than Steve with his Probat. (please do not be offended







)

In my opinion, a "dark roast", and I don't mean carbonised Viena style in anyway, balance the flavor which usually the lighter roasts does not have -too much at the sour side.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

I wonder if Steve's roasts are ever affected by his fiery ginger barnet?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Viernes said:


> I don't think that's a fair comparation. Dunno which roaster you have, but I don't think you'll get the same roast quality in your home than Steve with his Probat. (please do not be offended
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok not exactly a fair comparison as I'll be using a hot air popcorn maker but I've have good results so far. I will literally be aiming for anything slightly darker than he roasts it.

I'm only testing to see how diminished the flavour is when roasted darker. Even with a basic hot air roaster this should be possible, well that is my reckonin' anyways.

Do you think Steve roasts so light because he wants the coffee to be as close to ginger as possible?


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Some people like cheddar, some like camembert, others like morzarella, manchego or stilton. Some crazy people don't like cheese at all. Don't know what it means but there must be a lesson somewhere in there!


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