# Save me from Nespresso bankruptcy



## startg (Feb 12, 2013)

OK, I'm exaggerating a little. New member looking for a little advice.

We have a Nespresso machine, for me this would be perfect as I drink less than one a day, and always espresso. The quality is good enough for me if we put good water in it, it's not good using tap water.

It's not as good as an espresso in Italy served by someone who knows what they're doing, but it's better than 90% of espressos I've been given in England and many in France and Switzerland as well, where I live.

My wife drinks several cups a day plus many of our visitors drink espresso, the cost of the Nespresso capsules is ridiculous over time. It adds up to about 100chf a month or more.

Given that the Nespresso machine makes espresso/ristretto that is good enough for our needs, and the mess of a "real" machine plus grinder is not an option (although I don't doubt they make the best espresso in the hands of an expert) - is there a bean to cup machine out there that can beat or match the Nespresso machine for quality and can work out cheaper in the end? I guess reliability and durability and the quality of the beans used have to come into this calculation.....

The machine will have to last at least 2-3 years to be worth it.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide.....


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## Callum_T (Dec 23, 2012)

My dads always the one to laugh at me prepping proper drinks and packing portafilters when he pops his nespresso pods into his "citiz?"

Anyway, your not going to get anything easier or quicker than the nespresso system. Seattle coffee gear do an insightful video of the quality vs mess or something on a bean to cup , ese pod and nespresso - nespresso beat the lot in taste and ease of use I think.

Proper espresso needs time and effort but when you get it you'll probably start finding your self on a daily hunt for new coffee gear.

I guess there may be ways to improve nespresso - I've seen reusable cartridges you could fill with lovely freshly roasted beans, not sure if it would really change much though.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You could think about a Delonghi, Gaggia or even Dualit "espresso machine" and buy standard ESE Pods. The quality of the espresso isn't amazing, Nespresso probably still trumps it (but it seems to trump even professional barista espresso with average joe) but its simple and much cheaper than nespresso as you can get 100 for about £20 from the bay, they are also readily available in supermarkets. These machines also come with pressurised baskets so you can use ground lavazza or illy and still get some crema and taste fromt he shot.

If you can find a local specialist dealer who will let you try out a pod system that would be ideal.


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## startg (Feb 12, 2013)

So are you guys saying a bean-to-cup machine like one of the Jura range (there is an offer on the ENA 8 at present here, 799chf) will not match Nespresso for taste even if top coffee and water is used?

:-(


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It really depends how you like your coffee. If you like the intensity of a real espresso, like that from a good coffee shop, then the B2C can (from what I have read) give a good shot and will in this scenario be better than the nespresso.

However the thing is "most" people actually prefer the more muted and mild flavour Nespresso shot, even over a shot pulled by a professional barista.

Think of it kinda like blue cheese, the strongest most flavoursome can be considered the 'best' by those who really like cheese, but most people wont like it.

If you like you espresso or make a lot of long drinks then you will get a good shot out of a B2C, you just have to make sure you maintain it properly


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## startg (Feb 12, 2013)

Ah ok, gotcha. The cheese analogy is quite helpful as I like strong blue cheeses...

Sorry I have never gone into this kind of thing before, all I know is that the best espressos I've had have all been in Italy, but that Nespresso's "ristretto" capsule comes pretty close, especially when combined Swiss-style with a square of dark chilli chocolate(take bite of chocolate and let it melt in mouth before sipping espresso, this may be heresy to you lot but I like it  ).

So the machine should be good, but your last remark about maintenance, hmm, that could be an issue. My wife can destroy any domestic appliance with abuse and impatience, things that would last 10 years for me are done in a year.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Yea, a manual machine requires a good clean after every use, and a descale every month or so. A B2C has all its bits on the inside, even the grinder and this all needs cleaning of built up stale grounds as often as possible, every coulpe of weeks at a guess. If you are in a hard water area it probably need a yearly service, this is also true of manual machines.

I think you may have got just about all the info you can out of us here, I dont think there is anyone here who owns a B2C machine, we are all caught up in the coffee bug and chase that really GREAT espresso which a B2C just cant make.

I have heard people here recommend giving Londinium a ring http://londiniumespresso.com/ as they sell or used to sell a B2C machine and can tell you with confidence what kind of cup you will get. (Hopefully another member can weigh in here)

But do a google search and try and find a place near you that sells B2C, Nespresso and Manual and will allow you t test them. Its impossible to say with any certainty that a B2C will taste better to your palette than a Nespresso does without being able to try, and B2C machine is a big investment.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I am just wondering how much this will save you, and if it is really worth it....

A B2C machine that is going to give you equal or better shots than the Nespresso is going to cost (at an educated guess) in the region of £600-£1000. Nespresso is just under 30p a capsule, buying good freshly roasted coffee costs about 15p per single shot. (supermarket beans are out of the question if you want a good shot)

So this is assuming that the Nespresso is the equivalent of a single espresso shot, as a double rings in at about 30p. So 25ml espresso = 15p, 50ml espresso = 30p

So you may save yourself £40pm on the coffee itself. So around £500 a year, take £100 off that for a professional service and your saving is £400 per year. (edit: after a bit of reading on the B2C machines, it seems if they are regularly cleaned, and used in conjunction with water filters, or just filtered water, they wont need quite the regularity of professional service I thought they did. Perhaps it is only necessary if you notice a drop off in the quality of your coffee)

So it will take you a couple of years to make back your investment in the machine. It would be good to know what the life of a B2C machine is, well maintained and in a soft water area I would guess at 5 years, but thats a total guess, a high quality one well maintained may well last longer. If it wasn't treated great and if your water is hard then you could half the life of the machine, negating the reason for investment in the first place as you would have to buy a fresh.

I think it will end up costing you less, even if the machine gave up after 2 years you would be almost breaking even with your saving, but the initial outlay is substantial, and you have to be sure that its going to make a drink your happy with before you invest.

Dont ever lead yourself down the path of cheap supermarket beans, they are never worth it. Also you can make substantial savings once you find your favorite beans by buying in bulk freshly roasted and freezing until use, possibly saving you another £50-£100 a year (I'm not sure what the quality is like, but 1kg fresh roast on ebay drops to as low as £9, more than halving your coffee investment again). See this great article here http://www.home-barista.com/store-coffee-in-freezer.html

Edit: just saw this post by another memeber (Glenn) in another topic from a while back, may be of help:



> I would recommend a call to the following 2 people who both retail - and a have a good working knowledge of - bean to cup machines
> 
> Fairfax Coffee (Bob) 0800 316 8700
> 
> ...


Edit2: I just realised you were referring to "chf" in your posts, which suggests your in switzerland... so you will have to adjust for that in my above maths









I thought I would also mention there is a Jura Impressa c9 on amazon at the mo for £960, and I understand it to be a very highly regarded machine, and thats the best price its ever been. But that is UK, so may be irrelevant to you







But your wife sure would be happy that she could get her coffee, regardless of the type, at the push of a button.


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## startg (Feb 12, 2013)

Thankyou very much for your kind and extremely well thought-out replies.

I will have a think. The Jura B2C machines are a little cheaper here in Switzerland, the Impressa C9 is 950 chf - in fact this price would be available to anyone, it's the internet after all, though I'm not sure what the rules would be regarding guarantees and VAT. The little Ena Micro 1 looks good at less than 600chf, I guess it's all the same interior tech, though I could be wrong. If that thing can make espressos as good as Nespresso, it would pay for itself fairly quickly.

http://en.toppreise.ch/prod_164699.html

http://en.toppreise.ch/prod_304680.html

I'll have to try and get someone to let us taste the coffee they get from these machines....

Thanks again, I wish you luck in your hunt for the perfect shot!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Gale at seatlle coffe gear review the c9 and was very impressed by it (they review hundreds of machines, check out their youtube). They do great reviews of all the top machines, and in the vid she admits to using the super-auto in the morning when she just wants a quick cup of coffee. To me that speaks volumes about the convenience and quality these machines can produce, even people who know what a great shot is and strive to achieve it still enjoy convenience.

Pop back in and let us know how you get on if you end up going for one of these machines, there is very little info on the web for this type of comparison and your experience will probably be really useful for other people in the same position as you if they happen upon this topic vis google. Not to mention being pretty intrigued myself


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