# Barista express pressure gauge



## Iris

Can I ask any other members here that have the barista express, whats your experience of the pressure gauge?

I find if I was to go by the pressure gauge I would be making under extracted espresso, if the dial is at 12oclock position right in the centre which is supposed to desired level, the shot will extract in like less than 15 seconds!

I have found I get a better result when the pressure gauge is right at the very upper limit of the espresso range on the gauge, maybe even abit higher than the top end of the espresso range on the pressure gauge. At the very top end of the espresso range or just a bit over it, I get a nice tasting double espresso extraction that pulls in about 30 seconds with nice crema and flows in 2 thin steady even streams from the portafilter.

But I am wondering am I dialling in my espresso wrong should I be paying attention to the pressure dial? see I am quite new to espresso and have no reference as to what the shots should taste like, although dialling in Rave signature blend today I got a strong note of almond in the cup and says on Rave site look out for notes of almond if your extraction is good! this extraction was outside the expresso range on the pressure gauge.


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## Iris

Anybody here have the barista express, would love to know your thoughts on the pressure gauge.


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## DAH

My experience is similar to yours. Middle of the dial (the espresso range) - 15-18 seconds. Upper end 25-30 seconds. I get a "nice" coffee - I'm hardly an aficionado, but I guess I could adjust the grind and tamp....


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## niedzwiedz

The best shots I get tend to be just over the upper espresso range, 18g 2:1 recipe and approx 38 second extraction time. It does vary with which beans I use and their freshness.


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## Panhors

In my opinion, the manometer in this machine is such a gadget. I have this machine for two weeks and I am a bit frustrated. Choosing the appropriate grinding of coffee (7) with the standard coffee quantity for the sieve, I get twice the weight of the coffee in 25-27s, which is in line with the espresso standard. However, the manometer during the extraction, after a certain time (maybe it is a pre-infusion, but the pressure is probably too high) moves up after the scale of the espresso. The manometer behaves this way regardless of the degree of grinding - it always ends out of range. Is it the same with you?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MN4EUEulxKLLo_Jq8n6BxM1aX-KBg3e/view?usp=drivesdk


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## DavecUK

I do love a video...yeah I wouldn't worry too much about what the gauge is reading....concentrate on the grind, prep and weight. Perhaps adjusting grind and looking for a 1:2 ratio (e.g. 16g in 32g out) in 30 instead of 16 seconds.....will pay more dividends than worrying too much about pressure.


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## ajohn

The pressure gauge goes up to about 15bar brewing. That position can be seen when the machine is back flushed where it may go a little higher than it does brewing.

The 12 o'clock position is representative of typical brew pressures on most vibratory pump machines used against an over pressure valve. The BE has that set at circa 15bar rather than the usual 7 to 10 bar.

The pressure people should choose to use depends on the bean really bearing in mind that some are supposed to be weaker than others and if brewed strong will probably lack the taste they should have - origin beans in particular IMHO.







Afraid I don't drink anything else and always aim to get the taste the bean should have. That means playing with quantity, ratio and effectively pressure.

The 12 o'clock position is most likely to suite a strong probably dark roast bean used in the double. The 15bar point is most likely to suite a strong bean in the single basket.

What I would tend to say is that a grind and fill level must be used that shows significant pre infusion pressure. These show gauge readings against bar,



 

As far as ratios go I'd say 1 to 2 generally no, I usually find that something higher than 2 is better even going as high as 3 on occasion but in circa 30sec. Best thing to do with any bean is to play around and taste the result rather than trying to stick to some one's gospel.

The razor tool gives a reasonable fill level on the BE but more or less can be used. Go too low and the puck gets rather wet. Go too high and the portafilter has to be used like a sledge hammer to get the puck to pop out. There is also a higher point where the puck tends to stick to the shower screen - a little more coffee just a fraction of a gram prevents that and at that point even more may well give a weaker drink. The fill level can be used to make smaller changes to the ratio. Adding more within reason is just like grinding finer.

John

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## adam85

Panhors said:


> In my opinion, the manometer in this machine is such a gadget. I have this machine for two weeks and I am a bit frustrated. Choosing the appropriate grinding of coffee (7) with the standard coffee quantity for the sieve, I get twice the weight of the coffee in 25-27s, which is in line with the espresso standard. However, the manometer during the extraction, after a certain time (maybe it is a pre-infusion, but the pressure is probably too high) moves up after the scale of the espresso. The manometer behaves this way regardless of the degree of grinding - it always ends out of range. Is it the same with you?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MN4EUEulxKLLo_Jq8n6BxM1aX-KBg3e/view?usp=drivesdk


Sorry - bit of a random question, but were you checking the drip tray at the end of the video, because you get lots of water dropping onto the top of it?

It seems to be a problem a few have, and one which I've only just started to notice.


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## Iris

Panhors said:


> In my opinion, the manometer in this machine is such a gadget. I have this machine for two weeks and I am a bit frustrated. Choosing the appropriate grinding of coffee (7) with the standard coffee quantity for the sieve, I get twice the weight of the coffee in 25-27s, which is in line with the espresso standard. However, the manometer during the extraction, after a certain time (maybe it is a pre-infusion, but the pressure is probably too high) moves up after the scale of the espresso. The manometer behaves this way regardless of the degree of grinding - it always ends out of range. Is it the same with you?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MN4EUEulxKLLo_Jq8n6BxM1aX-KBg3e/view?usp=drivesdk


Seems you are getting the same results as me, I thought the machine might have been faulty. I think I might just ignore the pressure gauge from now on and concentrate on getting a 1:2 ratio in around 30 seconds.


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## DavecUK

Iris said:


> Seems you are getting the same results as me, I thought the machine might have been faulty. I think I might just ignore the pressure gauge from now on and concentrate on getting a 1:2 ratio in around 30 seconds.


Unless of course

1. You know the gauge is accurate

2. The machine has an adjustable expansion valve so you can adjust the maximum brew pressure

Otherwise, it is what it is....and I suppose you can look at it as getting your full moneys worth out of the Vibe pump.


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## Iris

DavecUK said:


> Unless of course
> 
> 1. You know the gauge is accurate
> 
> 2. The machine has an adjustable expansion valve so you can adjust the maximum brew pressure
> 
> Otherwise, it is what it is....and I suppose you can look at it as getting your full moneys worth out of the Vibe pump.


Sorry excuse my ignorance, coffee machine newbie here. Only had a couple of really cheap crap delonghi machines previous to the sage barista express, and yes I know the barista express isn't really the best machine either, but other than the pressure gauge issue I like it, I can some pretty decent espresso from it.

1) how would I know if the pressure gauge is accurate, judging by extraction timimg I think not?

2) how would I know if there is an adjustable expansion valve to adjust brew pressure? would it involve dismantling the machine?


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## DavecUK

Iris said:


> Sorry excuse my ignorance, coffee machine newbie here. Only had a couple of really cheap crap delonghi machines previous to the sage barista express, and yes I know the barista express isn't really the best machine either, but other than the pressure gauge issue I like it, I can some pretty decent espresso from it.
> 
> 1) how would I know if the pressure gauge is accurate, judging by extraction timimg I think not?
> 
> 2) how would I know if there is an adjustable expansion valve to adjust brew pressure? would it involve dismantling the machine?


1. No idea, unless you can use a pressure measuring portafilter on it

2. Yes you would have to take the case off and have a look at the type of expansion valve used and whether it's adjustable...some disassembly would be required.

Would it make a huge difference...probably not.


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## Iris

adam85 said:


> Sorry - bit of a random question, but were you checking the drip tray at the end of the video, because you get lots of water dropping onto the top of it?
> 
> It seems to be a problem a few have, and one which I've only just started to notice.


I think is normal the drip tray filling up quickly, its the 3 way solenoid valve I believe. I don't use the little storage compartment at the back of the drip tray anyway as it always ends up with water in it, I just keep the little tray for storing the extra baskets and tools etc in a cupboard.


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## ajohn

Panhors said:


> In my opinion, the manometer in this machine is such a gadget. I have this machine for two weeks and I am a bit frustrated. Choosing the appropriate grinding of coffee (7) with the standard coffee quantity for the sieve, I get twice the weight of the coffee in 25-27s, which is in line with the espresso standard. However, the manometer during the extraction, after a certain time (maybe it is a pre-infusion, but the pressure is probably too high) moves up after the scale of the espresso. The manometer behaves this way regardless of the degree of grinding - it always ends out of range. Is it the same with you?
> 
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/11MN4EUEulxKLLo_Jq8n6BxM1aX-KBg3e/view?usp=drivesdk


Looks like too much coffee come grinder setting to me. Not easy to say which unfortunately both can do the same thing on any machine. The machine pre infuses for 10 secs and then switches to full pump pressure. If it's always going that high irrespective of grind you very probably have too much coffee in the basket - which ever one you are using. What happens is that the grinds expand and can't so the pressure shoots up as the puck is being packed tighter and tighter. If I was using the single basket the video does show the gauge behaviour I would be aiming for but both the load of grounds and the grinder setting need to be correct. If used the double basket and tuned for the similar gauge behaviour all beans I used produced a 12oz long black that was too strong to drink.

So start again. Grinder at 8 and use the razor tool and a 30 sec shot even though the BE seems to produce volume based shots. Weigh what comes out and look at the ratio.

Also watch the pressure gauge.Maybe no pressure during the first 10 secs due to preinfusion but some coffee flow or some pressure build followed by a higher reading when the pump goes to full power. How high will tend to set how strong the drink will be.

Adjust the grinder by *one step *waste a couple of grams of grinds and repeat. When things are as good as they can be adjustments can be made by adjusting the dose by *small* amounts eg see what 0.2g more or less does and go from there. If you want the strongest possible use 0.2g up until the puck sticks to the shower screen and then add one again which will probably stop it.

You may need to program a button to get the shot to last long enough. As it comes it will be aiming at 30 and 60ml or grams in other words. It's not entirely accurate though but once a tuning is set it will alter the shot time to try and get the output where it should be - just like many commercial machines.








So once you have your workflow correct the gauge should always behave the same way and the shot time might alter by a few seconds at random. I've also found with the beans I used most of the time that the weight used needs to be increased at some point as they age.

A ratio of 2. I'd be inclined to look over a much wider range even if the shot time is 30 sec but 40 sec and some other ratio might be better. For classic styles of drink that are adjust high or lower ratios I'd be inclined to do it via time. Shorten in one case and increase in the other. However according to classical filter basket sizes the ratios can range from just over 3 to over 4 but tune for a taste that suites.

John

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