# Smart Grinder Pro vs Rancilio Rocky - starter kit



## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Hi everyone,

My end game is to purchase an espresso machine for home use. I've been looking for a few years & nearly took the plunge on the Gaggia Classic but then discovered the whole Philips issue / redesign decided everything was getting too complicated & so bought a Bosch Tassimo pod machine instead.

So after a few years of using that, which was much much better than instant coffee, i'm starting again. I was bought a stovetop pot for Xmas & i have ditched the Bosch in favour of this. It's taste is much better & i'm no longer embarrassed about ditching non recyclable plastic pods each time i make coffee.

My ultimate goal is to purchase an espresso machine but in the meantime I want to start with a grinder so i can get to grips with one & the whole bean buying experience. The grinder will firstly be used with my stovetop & french press. The 2 machines i have my eye on to eventually buy are the Rancillo Silvia V5 or a 2nd hand Gaggia classic (unless the Classic II 2015 is ok?). Although i don't see that many classics for sale in Ireland & i'm hesitant to use eBay.

Any advice about my plan? Is there a gaping hole? Is this madness?

Thanks for looking & any advice is most welcome.


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## Dark Sumatra (Aug 27, 2015)

Watching with interest.


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Espresso*









I have zero experience with the Rancilio espresso machine or grinder. I do have a smart grinder pro and it is more than capable as an entry level grinder for what you need. I also had a Gaggia Classic, mine was a 2006 model and whilst I have never used a 2015 model i have read bad things and would advise getting a pre-2015 model to be safe. Normally quite a few Classics are on sale in the for sale section in this forum. Plus there is a guy who refurbs and sells them regularly on here too (i had mine from him).


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Nice when someone wants to start with the grinder, that's the right way up!

What's your budget?

What's your view on the balance of form vs function? (Does it need to be pretty?)

What's your attitude towards second hand?

How did you narrow down to the two grinders you are considering?


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

If you opt for the Rocky go for the doserless, and unless modded with a pump lid and nose picked post-grinding it does have an issue with it's grind path/chute being retentive,

also it is a wise idea to convert the spring loaded switch to be continuous so you don't have to stand there holding it.

It is flat-burred and produces a pretty consistent particle size and also does have an impressively wide range of grind size much greater than that of the Mahlkonig Vario.

Some people have made it stepless but I never had any meaningful success at that...

The Smart Grinder is a lovely little conical-burred thing, not sure on retention figures but I believe it's fairly negligible as the grind path is more or less vertical,

certainly more high-tech than the Rocky with a timer but earlier models are known to suffer from shimming issues.

The S.G. is also belt driven which could potential mean replacement of a belt down the line whereas the Rocky is direct and is pretty much bullet proof.

If it's espresso you exclusively want to grind for then you may want to keep an eye out for second hand Mazzer Super Jolly's or other stepless 58mm (and above) grinders as stepped grinders don't offer you the precision needed to make what is often minute changes in grind size to accomodate whatever recipe you're working to or on.

I have seen a Baratza Preciso for sale on here and that is definitely worth a punt!


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Kyle T said:


> Espresso*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. Yes it seems like the modern Gaggia Classic is a train wreck which is an awful shame. I have seen various comments regarding the sale & some guy on here who referbs them but you need 5 posts? to unlock that level. Although i am looking for valued opinions I am also trying to get to level 5 so i can have a look at 2hand machines.


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Thank you for your reply.

My budget is up to €269 which allows for the rocky doserless. The SGP is coming in at €214.

Pretty is nice, but form is key. I guess my pecking order would be:

1. Function

2. Size

3, Form.

It has to perform. Size - I don't want it taking over my counter top. It will be on show so looks are always considered.

I don't mind secondhand, i buy refurb & SH all the time with other items i am more familiar with. Grinders & Espresso machines are an unknown to me so i have more caution.

I narrowed down to these grinders basically using price & reviews. I've doubled my initial budget since starting to look. I want to buy a keeper (5 years). Not buy something then instantly look to be upgrading in 3 months time.

I guess at the end of the day i'm looking to purchase a nice team that will produce a good shot, not an ultimate shot, but a good consistent shot that can be enjoyed & be the basis of other drinks - Cappuccino, flat white, Americano, long black. & also have the journey of trying different beans rather than being restricted by pre-ground choices.

I'm happy to be grinding beans for the stovetop 12 months after the grinder purchase whilst i then invest more time looking at espresso machines.

Footnote: I recently stayed with my sister who doesn't drink coffee & when i mentioned this whole subject she disappeared & came back with a 10 year old espresso (£100) machine she had purchased for her husband who does drink coffee but doesn't have the time to mess about with it. This thing looked like a POS but i quickly grabbed it out of her hands & got to work. Anyway after a good clean & examination i got it working. I've never used an espresso machine before but it was obvious to me that all the time i've spent reading & watching youtube videos had been beneficial. The shots from it were ok. the coffee was a 1 month opened tin of pre-ground that no one had actually used! A pressurised basket helped put some thick crema on top. You get the picture, not the best machine, beans etc but it re-sparked my enthusiasm into this potential coffee journey & was briefly exposed to the fun of actually making shots.


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Beanosaurus said:


> If you opt for the Rocky go for the doserless, and unless modded with a pump lid and nose picked post-grinding it does have an issue with it's grind path/chute being retentive,
> 
> also it is a wise idea to convert the spring loaded switch to be continuous so you don't have to stand there holding it.
> 
> ...


Thank you also for your reply.

Yes it would be the Rocky doserless version, i'm sorry i should have been more clear with that. I am aware of the chute issues with that machine which is why I'm looking at the SGP. I do not quite understand the pump lid mod you refer to but i'll have a google & get back to you if I'm still unclear. The spring loaded switch makes some sense.

I have seen a few issues with the SG, but as always if you look of issues you'll always find them. Any electronic / mechanical item is always going to have a % fail rate. & some of the people on youtube showing issues or faults look a little iffy too. Misuse can always cause faults. I seen early reviews noting the "extra" adjustments you can make by changing the burr internally. I believe this is regarded, by some, as more or extra fine tuning. Where in fact this is not he case? The adjustment between the burrs is for tuning up after you have used the machine for a long time? A way of getting back to the finest grind after the burrs have received some wear? I may be wrong there so please correct me if that is the case. The belt drive is something to consider as i wasn't aware it had a belt. With so many things to look at & consider this passed me by so thank you for that.

I have seen he Mazzer SJ mentioned on here before so i'll have a look at that again. The Baratza Precise is out of my price range new, but once again there no harm in looking at it from a SH point of view.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I have a mazzer SJ, they aren't sexy looking, but they are a very good second hand option. Built like a tank too, designed for commercial use, so if you get one that works little could go wrong at home.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I had a Sage pro, great little grinder with a small footprint, it does not like light beans though and will struggle, if you plan on using lighter roasts such a Yirga it will jam, that is the only reason I got rid of mine.

A bit of advice from someone who did what you may is go second hand on a big grinder, heavier,takes more space up but the difference in grind quality is everything, neither the Rocky or the Sage can match a proper full sizes grinder, it may save you some time and money in the long run.


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Missy said:


> I have a mazzer SJ, they aren't sexy looking, but they are a very good second hand option. Built like a tank too, designed for commercial use, so if you get one that works little could go wrong at home.


I don't think they are that bad looking. What is a good SH price for these grinders? Can you only get a doser version?


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

mremanxx said:


> I had a Sage pro, great little grinder with a small footprint, it does not like light beans though and will struggle, if you plan on using lighter roasts such a Yirga it will jam, that is the only reason I got rid of mine.
> 
> A bit of advice from someone who did what you may is go second hand on a big grinder, heavier,takes more space up but the difference in grind quality is everything, neither the Rocky or the Sage can match a proper full sizes grinder, it may save you some time and money in the long run.


Okay, this is something i am unaware of. Could you explain; are you saying the weight of the beans was an issue or the light roast is an issue? If its the weight i presume they would keep jumping out of the burrs?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Galwaybay said:


> I don't think they are that bad looking. What is a good SH price for these grinders? Can you only get a doser version?


You can get doserless, or modded to be so, but they are like hens teeth. I single dose and use the doser. Works fine and totally clump free.


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Missy said:


> You can get doserless, or modded to be so, but they are like hens teeth. I single dose and use the doser. Works fine and totally clump free.


Are yes clumping, just as you think you know everything you discover clumping & the issues it presents!


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Well thank you everyone, you have all been of great help & i've just realised i now qualify to have a look around the for sale section on here. Wow quite a few Gaggia Classics going there. I do believe i may have found my espresso machine.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Galwaybay said:


> Well thank you everyone, you have all been of great help & i've just realised i now qualify to have a look around the for sale section on here. Wow quite a few Gaggia Classics going there. I do believe i may have found my espresso machine.


Oi! You promised you were buying a grinder


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Missy said:


> Oi! You promised you were buying a grinder


LOL - yes i still am but the stress of which machine has been removed now. Like i said i was always looking at the Classic but then Philips happened. The Silvia made the list as it is very much like the original Classic albeit a higher end machine but less forgiving.

So i guess my grinder needs to be a good fit with the Gaggia Classic & the odd french press.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Galwaybay said:


> Okay, this is something i am unaware of. Could you explain; are you saying the weight of the beans was an issue or the light roast is an issue? If its the weight i presume they would keep jumping out of the burrs?


No, generally lighter roasts require finer grinding, this is where the Sage struggles.


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

mremanxx said:


> No, generally lighter roasts require finer grinding, this is where the Sage struggles.


Thank you for the reply. I was not aware of this. I've read about issues with oily beans but not light. I have a lot to learn


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## CantGetNoSleep (Sep 4, 2016)

What grinder did you go for in the end?


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

CantGetNoSleep said:


> What grinder did you go for in the end?


I have just today ordered the Sage Smart Grinder Pro. Still need to decide on the espresso machine now.


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## CantGetNoSleep (Sep 4, 2016)

Galwaybay said:


> I have just today ordered the Sage Smart Grinder Pro. Still need to decide on the espresso machine now.


How much did it cost you?


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

CantGetNoSleep said:


> How much did it cost you?


€200 from Amazon


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## CantGetNoSleep (Sep 4, 2016)

Galwaybay said:


> €200 from Amazon


Cheers, I'm waiting for it to drop a bit from current prices


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## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

I've got almost the exact setup you are describing. Doserless Rocky (unmodified) and a 2005 Gaggia classic with pid and a few other bolt on bits. Entire setup (from ebay) was about £250, including the mods)

I then went through many many beans from Rave, found one I liked, bought a kilo of that, and have got everything running to produce a good coffee every time. (in my opinion) In fact i'm not even feeling any upgraditus at the moment!!!


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

There's one for £160 ? In the warehouse deals. It's black or silver, can't remember.


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## CantGetNoSleep (Sep 4, 2016)

Galwaybay said:


> There's one for £160 ? In the warehouse deals. It's black or silver, can't remember.


Will take a look cheers


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

Well I'm still using the smart grinder pro with my stove top pot every morning. I've not had any issues so far with the grinder. I must say it's a wonderful situation to be in having fresh ground beans in the morning. The smell is to die for. There is definitely an increase in taste & quality compared to using preground. I just thought I would report back after a good run. I've had no jams or problems. And have been using medium to dark roasts. I'm now starting to look at espresso machines again.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

That's good to hear. Our SG pro gets a run out every other day or so, and I'm waiting to see how long it will last. There's a Rocky in the loft on stand by!


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## tod (Aug 28, 2016)

mremanxx said:


> I had a Sage pro, great little grinder with a small footprint, it does not like light beans though and will struggle, if you plan on using lighter roasts such a Yirga it will jam, that is the only reason I got rid of mine.
> 
> A bit of advice from someone who did what you may is go second hand on a big grinder, heavier,takes more space up but the difference in grind quality is everything, neither the Rocky or the Sage can match a proper full sizes grinder, it may save you some time and money in the long run.


I have just discovered this "feature" of Sage and have to say that it is extremely frustrating seeing that I am partial to lighter roasts. Sage have been completely unhelpful so I think I will return it for a refund and get myself a grinder that won't care what shade of brown the beans are.

I have also had trouble using it with anything but espresso. The amount of fines in a coarser grind is such that it clogs a V60 or a Chemex filter and you always end up with an overbrewed..brew. This also lead to many frustrated experiences and lots of wasted coffee.

So while it is a great little gadget it has limited use and since Sage do not offer any replacement parts nor servicing I could not recommend it even as a starter grinder.


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## Galwaybay (Apr 21, 2015)

All points & experiences are valid. I don't think I've ever seen a 'light' bean for sale yet. This post now contains more knowledge than I could ever find before whilst researching. It's a tricky area to be in; taking your 1st steps into this world with no experience to hand. You have to understand beans & the roasting of beans, grinders & espresso hardware & then link it all together with yet more magical wizardry. And if your budget is tight it makes it even harder again. Buying second hand is a wiser move, and I say this now after gaining more experience. However, this too can bring frustration & stress as you just don't want to get burnt & waste your money on something that isn't working quite right.

i have just purchased a reconditioned Gaggia Classic so a new journey will begin for me very soon. So far I'm happy with the Sage SGP. Even using a stovetop with this grinder has somewhat educated me with relationships of different beans & grind settings. I'm sure in 6 months time I'll look back at this & agree; yeah I probably made some errors. But where I live I do not know a single person who owns anything more technical than a French press. Eventually you realise you've watched every YouTube video out there & you can't read threads for the rest of your life.

I'm breaking some eggs ;-) I once again thank everyone who has chipped in here. I will report back at some point with more stories to tell as I got on.



tod said:


> I have just discovered this "feature" of Sage and have to say that it is extremely frustrating seeing that I am partial to lighter roasts. Sage have been completely unhelpful so I think I will return it for a refund and get myself a grinder that won't care what shade of brown the beans are.
> 
> I have also had trouble using it with anything but espresso. The amount of fines in a coarser grind is such that it clogs a V60 or a Chemex filter and you always end up with an overbrewed..brew. This also lead to many frustrated experiences and lots of wasted coffee.
> 
> So while it is a great little gadget it has limited use and since Sage do not offer any replacement parts nor servicing I could not recommend it even as a starter grinder.


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