# Cafelat Robot



## z4r9

I couldn't find a thread dedicated to this interesting little guy so thought I'd make one!









The Cafelat Robot is a manual espresso coffee maker which takes strong design cues from the classic Faemina Baby. It is now live on Kickstarter for those interested:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cafelat/cafelat-robot-manual-espresso-coffee-maker


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## Stanic

yeah it looks like a great piece of kit, there are some nice vids of it in action on their instagram, the barista version with the pressure gauge is promising


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## z4r9

I haven't had any espresso equipment since my Mypressi Twist fell apart, but that's about to change as I've backed the Kickstarter for a Barista Robot (with the pressure gauge). Seems perfect for my needs and looks nice to boot!


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## Stanic

Cool, if I didn't have the Portaspresso and wasn't planning for a dual boiler machine I'd order one in a minute







might still do later - the one issue I have is that I'd still have to preheat everything properly, living at 1000 m asl means that water boils at 97 degrees


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## z4r9

I can see how that altitude could be problematic. I've toyed with the idea of buying a machine on and off for a while but just can't justify the counter space, maintenance and time to first shot with heating up the machine. My girlfriend hates coffee and most of my guests would be perfectly happy with instant, so production requirement is probably 1-2 doses a day. The Portaspresso was on my wishlist for a while but the Robot was love at first sight. Can't wait to get my hands on it!


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## Stanic

I'm pretty certain you'll be rather happy with it


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## z4r9

I'm thinking the Kinu M68 might make a nice partner to the Robot, both in performance and aesthetics. I read somewhere that there might be a new version appearing, fingers crossed it goes up on their site in the next few months!


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## Stanic

Yeah there was a projected update so hopefully it will materialise, I wouldn't mind to get the marble base that was supposed to be available too


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## Dylan

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that... Really not my cup of tea.


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## z4r9

It's certainly a statement and I can see why some might not appreciate their coffee maker reminding them of something from a 50's B movie.

Personally, I like that it's different and visually interesting in a world of dreary-looking kitchen appliances. It puts a smile on my face thinking about fighting a little robot for a dose of espresso in the morning.


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## z4r9

Paul from Cafelat uploaded a few videos explaining the design of the Robot:


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## malling

If I weren't getting the Decent next year It would have been a fun little thing to own. It might be stretching it to get a home lever again


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## jj-x-ray

Pretty unique, I like it.

We'll be talking about robot profiles soon


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## mcrmfc

Did anybody get one? It looks like the backers are getting theirs right now.

Interested to hear any field reports.

And if you got one but don't want it I'll happily take it off your hands!


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## edpirie

You've probably seen this, but there are the beginnings of Bench Review and User Experience threads on Home Barista. Feedback in the former is positive so far. I'm another who'll be very interested in ordering one.


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## mcrmfc

edpirie said:


> You've probably seen this, but there are the beginnings of Bench Review and User Experience threads on Home Barista. Feedback in the former is positive so far. I'm another who'll be very interested in ordering one.


Thanks for the tip..yep I have.

Cafelat emailed me to say once they clear the KS orders then normal orders should open...let's hope so!


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## z4r9

The initial release of the user manual can be found here: http://www.cafelat.com/uploads/1/5/3/6/15367184/robot_user_manual.pdf



mcrmfc said:


> Did anybody get one? It looks like the backers are getting theirs right now.
> 
> Interested to hear any field reports.
> 
> And if you got one but don't want it I'll happily take it off your hands!


I backed a Barista Robot which I believe are being assembled from next week. Hopefully I'll be able to provide some impressions in a couple of weeks time!


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## mcrmfc

z4r9 said:


> The initial release of the user manual can be found here: http://www.cafelat.com/uploads/1/5/3/6/15367184/robot_user_manual.pdf
> 
> I backed a Barista Robot which I believe are being assembled from next week. Hopefully I'll be able to provide some impressions in a couple of weeks time!


Great stuff...I have recently fallen head over heels with my M47 + Flair combo and really excited to see how the Robot is likely to be different both positively and negatively.


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## z4r9

mcrmfc said:


> Great stuff...I have recently fallen head over heels with my M47 + Flair combo and really excited to see how the Robot is likely to be different both positively and negatively.


I have an M47 so will be able to test them together. One of the initial user impressions mentioned that you don't need to grind particularly fine, in fact they suggested a little coarser than you would typically grind for lever machines.


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## martinierius

If anyone sends me their robot, I can test against my newly acquired leverpresso ;-)

I ordered the version with the kinks ironed out that where discovered in the crowdfunded version.


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## mcrmfc

Robots are now on sale in the cafelat store. Just ordered my polished barista model.


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## mcrmfc

He's landed.....had a quick peek and the quality is pretty astounding. Thank you Mr Pratt!!! Will report back when I get him going...anybody other UK folk running a Robot yet?


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## edpirie

Not yet but close to ordering so looking forward to your report.


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## PCJAnt

mcrmfc said:


> He's landed.....had a quick peek and the quality is pretty astounding. Thank you Mr Pratt!!! Will report back when I get him going...anybody other UK folk running a Robot yet?


Congrats! I am also considering getting one. I liked the aluminum polished one, but the new pastel blue looks beautiful.

How much has been the import duty?

Thanks.


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## mcrmfc

Unfortunatley life has got in the way of me getting quality time with the Robot...but for now I just look lovingly at it in the evening on the side board. To be frank it was worth the money as an ornament alone.


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## mcrmfc

Just thought I would post a pic of the happy couple....

I will try at some point to formulate some erudite words of wisdom but for now just some very early impressions.

Not quite as simple to dial in as those on a certain other forum might have you believe...also the fact it's a manual lever is about the only similarity with the flair.

I found the transition a tad tricky...about 8 sink shots tricky...was starting to lose my way a bit to be honest. Makes me realise how unique (and clever) the Flair really is...but that's a conversation for another day.

Back to the Robot I finally realised I was just not being confident enough to go fine and really ramp up the pressure to 8-9 bar after PI..with a little decline at the end. I have achieved some pleasing shots on both the Atkinsons LSOL and for contrast a Union Gajah Mountain (as dark as I would ever venture).

Taste is really shining through really nice balance no signs of cringy acidity on the light or bitter on the dark...mouth feel and crema are ok at the moment but reckon I still have some way to go to really nail that aspect.

It wasn't cheap but despite the tough intro and the fact I haven't hit gold as yet...I don't regret a single penny.

Will try and update again in a few weeks with some pics of actual coffee.


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## pj.walczak

Thanks for the feedback.

I also find it pretty difficult to use, especially comparing to LR.

I took the basic version, so I can't check the pressure, and still looking for decent shoot


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## mcrmfc

Yeah had a couple of really great shots with the Gajah this afternoon much better crema and mouth feel also. 9 bar seems to get in the zone for me.

As you don't have the guage my advise would be go too fine and then work back...you need a fair whack of force to generate 9 bar on this thing.

Terrible photos...but I promise it tasted ace.


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## pj.walczak

So the first stage is pre-infussion. Usually this is the easiest part to get the grind settings right. So I assume you start with preinfussion, gentle pressure and the Robot arms are at this stage parallel to the ground? How long it takes to see coffee drops at the bottom of the PF? 5-7 seconds?

And the you push with full force down? So getting close to the 7-9 bars, how hard it is. Like pushing your whole body down on the poor Robot? Maybe I am too gentle for him?


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## mcrmfc

pj.walczak said:


> So the first stage is pre-infussion. Usually this is the easiest part to get the grind settings right. So I assume you start with preinfussion, gentle pressure and the Robot arms are at this stage parallel to the ground? How long it takes to see coffee drops at the bottom of the PF? 5-7 seconds?
> 
> And the you push with full force down? So getting close to the 7-9 bars, how hard it is. Like pushing your whole body down on the poor Robot? Maybe I am too gentle for him?


10s till drips appear with hands just resting. Then get right over and push down and yep you need to be reasonably strong and above the machine....I went really fine and the arms started to flex a little....that was probably about 12 bar...so don't go that far...but it's not so far back from there.


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## mcrmfc

Best shot so far tonight, it has taken longer than I thought but the rewards are there...and .3g off my target by eye!

Ignore the time...was about 50s inc PI


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## edpirie

Thanks for the detailed feedback on your experience, please keep it coming if you have the time. I was thinking of getting one to replace my Cremina to simplify shot making first thing in the morning, but it's just so easy to get good crema and thick mouthfeel with the Cremina. According to HB comments the Robot makes perfect espresso with practically no effort, so it's good to have a reality check!


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## mcrmfc

edpirie said:


> Thanks for the detailed feedback on your experience, please keep it coming if you have the time. I was thinking of getting one to replace my Cremina to simplify shot making first thing in the morning, but it's just so easy to get good crema and thick mouthfeel with the Cremina. According to HB comments the Robot makes perfect espresso with practically no effort, so it's good to have a reality check!


No probs at all...with that darker roast I am now getting the thickness and more gloupy mouth feel.

Going to try some lighter roasts into the weekend so will update then.

Will keep posting pics...I just know it really helped me to see what's possible.

My Flair (still love it...and now want the new pressure guage!) is in the cupboard for the time being


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## mcrmfc

edpirie said:


> Thanks for the detailed feedback on your experience, please keep it coming if you have the time. I was thinking of getting one to replace my Cremina to simplify shot making first thing in the morning, but it's just so easy to get good crema and thick mouthfeel with the Cremina. According to HB comments the Robot makes perfect espresso with practically no effort, so it's good to have a reality check!


 @edpirie - where are u based..if you are anywhere near South London/Kent you are welcome to come and try.


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## hifimacianer

edpirie said:


> Thanks for the detailed feedback on your experience, please keep it coming if you have the time. I was thinking of getting one to replace my Cremina to simplify shot making first thing in the morning, but it's just so easy to get good crema and thick mouthfeel with the Cremina. According to HB comments the Robot makes perfect espresso with practically no effort, so it's good to have a reality check!


Reality check:

I received my Robot yesterday, and only had a short time to play with it.

I did 4 shots in total, while I also had to adjust my hand grinder to fine espresso setting (only used for filter before).

The first two shots where for the sink (too coarse grind), the third was already drinkable, and the fourth was spot on!

Thick crema, full mouthfeel, tasted like chocolate, perfect.

Shot preperation was easy, and while it should not be needed to preheat the filterholder with darker roasts, I did because the Robot was cold as ice coming from delivery.

Built quality is outstanding.


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## mcrmfc

Right...leaving the dark stuff behind and turning now to the medium side.

The E1 and EQ blends from Clifton are ones I always return to in this category.

Just pulled this little beauty...pre heat portafilter/screen/basket in a cappucino mug (best use for such a thing)...pull out dry, dose, wdt, level, tamp, boiling water in....pre infuse at 1-2 bar 10s...then 9 -10 bar declining for last 10s...total time 50s ish.

Result - heaven! Sweet, sticky but with that bitter hint.

Shots seem a lot more balanced taste wise than the Flair. I think due to that small deep puck in the Flair you can get great looking shots (people can get crema for days with a porlex) fairly easily but if you are not super careful over and under extraction is common. I have no science for this...pure hunch/wild speculation.

Loving the Robot more and more every day. Credit should go to Paul Pratt as I learned a lot more this week about the blood sweat and tears he has had to go through to bring this to market.

Hope more UK folk take the plunge.


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## mcrmfc

Apologies my phone is dire and my photographic ability even worse...but just to give an idea of the Robot in action.


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## mokapoka

Shots looks very nice. How is cleanup? Do the arms stay up or do you need to hold them when inserting the basket?


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## mcrmfc

mokapoka said:


> Shots looks very nice. How is cleanup? Do the arms stay up or do you need to hold them when inserting the basket?


Cleanup is super easy...

1. Lift up arms as in video at end

2. Spare cup under

3. Flush excess water to dry puck

4. Arms up and remove portafilter assembly

5. Knock out puck then rinse components

Re the arms staying up of their own accord - Paul offers no assurance of that, he tries to assemble with enough friction but it seems it can loosen up a bit and loose that ability. If it did I don't think it would be the end of the world you would just have to support it with one hand whilst inserting and removing pf.


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## Power Freak

hifimacianer said:


> Reality check:
> 
> I received my Robot yesterday, and only had a short time to play with it.
> 
> I did 4 shots in total, while I also had to adjust my hand grinder to fine espresso setting (only used for filter before).
> 
> The first two shots where for the sink (too coarse grind), the third was already drinkable, and the fourth was spot on!
> 
> Thick crema, full mouthfeel, tasted like chocolate, perfect.
> 
> Shot preperation was easy, and while it should not be needed to preheat the filterholder with darker roasts, I did because the Robot was cold as ice coming from delivery.
> 
> Built quality is outstanding.


This was basically my experience too, first shot too coarse and was a sink job. 2nd shot slightly too coarse and was a lungo but drinkable, 3rd was good and have been better since.

I tend to drink light-ish roasts (not super light scandi-style in an espresso typically though) and the pre-heat thing is easy to do. I leave the portafilter in a cup of off boil water as I grind the beans, wipe down with a kitchen towel chuck in beans, tamp and go. The temperature seems to hold enough to get nice sweet shots out the other side.

I've seen people say that a longer pre-infuse and around 6 bar tastes best with this machine but I seem to prefer 8-10bar and a shorter pre-infuse. About 5-10s pre-infuse then a 30s pull with around a 1.85:1 ratio seems to be the sweet spot for me.

I don't have my proper espresso grinder back yet so that might just be dialing in to a rather dull burr.

Build quality is fantastic though I agree.


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## Freewind33

hello,

I bought my Robot on a German site that imports the Robot. Impeccable packaging. First impression on the Robot: well built, "breathes" the well done. I only made one shot, with, on the grinder, the same setting as for the Rocket Appartamento. But it is already very good ! The hard part is going to be to pack it up, because it's for my birthday, at the end of March ...


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## mcrmfc

Freewind33 said:


> hello,
> 
> I bought my Robot on a German site that imports the Robot. Impeccable packaging. First impression on the Robot: well built, "breathes" the well done. I only made one shot, with, on the grinder, the same setting as for the Rocket Appartamento. But it is already very good ! The hard part is going to be to pack it up, because it's for my birthday, at the end of March ...


You won't regret one iota...I also bought mine "for my birthday"...3 months early...and I never packed it up!!!

It will just reward you more the more you use it.

I have found medium roast blends work so well with minimal fuss...something like a HasBean Black Blend, Clifton house blend.

....don't pack it away


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## mcrmfc

Was about to pull the trigger on some Acaia Cinco scales...then suddenly had an epiphany...

I used an Arduino previously for my poor man's Gaggia gravimetrics...bit of a code update and now have a flow detection auto stop timing scales for the Robot.

Also really handy as I have the pressure guage facing away from me so I can see peering over the top of the Robot..so kind of impossible to see normal scales at the same time...not a problem with the Acaia "Heath Robinson" model


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## Freewind33

> J'ai aussi acheté le mien "pour mon anniversaire" ... il y a 3 mois plus tôt ... et je ne l'ai jamais emballé !!!
> 
> .... ne pas le ranger  [/ DEVIS]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pour l'instant je résiste


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## sseah12

Freewind33 said:


> hello,
> 
> I bought my Robot on a German site that imports the Robot. Impeccable packaging. First impression on the Robot: well built, "breathes" the well done. I only made one shot, with, on the grinder, the same setting as for the Rocket Appartamento. But it is already very good ! The hard part is going to be to pack it up, because it's for my birthday, at the end of March ...
> 
> View attachment 39076
> 
> 
> View attachment 39077
> 
> 
> View attachment 39078


Does cafelat include a sachet of molykote lub for the gasket with the robot?


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## mcrmfc

__
http://instagr.am/p/Bv06qh3hakC/

Ohhhh that tamper.....yes please.


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## Freewind33

sseah12

yes !


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## Freewind33

Hello,

I am still discovering the Robot; I enjoy ... Having no pressure gauge, and to appreciate the pressure, I thought to put a scale under the robot during the shooting. How much do I measure in kg? (especially the value not to be exceeded). Thank you and see you soon.


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## tohenk2

Congratulations to Paul and Kristel Pratt with the 2019 Prize for Best new product from the SCA (Consumer Coffee or Tea Preparation & Serving Equipment - Non-Electrical)


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## Paul Pratt

tohenk2 said:


> Congratulations to Paul and Kristel Pratt with the 2019 Prize for Best new product from the SCA (Consumer Coffee or Tea Preparation & Serving Equipment - Non-Electrical)


Haha Kristal is my long suffering Manager who puts up with my nonsense, not my wife.

The plan has always been to manufacture and build the Robot in the UK but we have been held up by good old bureaucratic red tape. A very long story.


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## Step21

I've just taken delivery of a barista (pressure gauge) Robot from coffee24 in Germany.

My first impression is surprise - it's so small and looks like a toy. The simplicity and quality of the machine is evident. It's my first foray into espresso so a learning curve lies ahead.

I spent a little time just practising placing and locking in the portafilter. After rubbing water around the piston seal and top of the basket it eased a bit after initially being unable to seat the portafilter. I now see a sachet of molykote lube in the box with a spare seal.

I got the pressurised basket in addition to the professional one supplied. I found this useful for warming up the pf and piston while preparing my first shot. Just pour in boiling water and lock it in.

I'm using my Hausgrind to grind so took a guess at an espresso grind setting which turned out to be too coarse for the 14g dose. I did the fill and discard technique covered on HB with water off the boil. I'm not sure that I did it correctly - are you supposed to discard all the water? That involves inverting it which seems wrong.

I found it harder to lock in the pf with the water in and due to the coarse grind and low dose drips were beginning to appear. Panic setting in! Might try the lube.

Turned out a low pressure (no crema) shot almost like that from an aeropress. The surprise was it tasted pretty good just a tad sour but very drinkable with a touch of dilution. Obviously need to go finer.

I was using a medium roast HMC Ethiopian SO.

Really easy to clean up. It's going to be fun using the Robot. Just looking at it makes me smile.

Has there been any more word on a single basket? I'm used to 13.5g doses for filter but the 14g "shot" seems way more caffeinated. I'll try bigger doses when splitting but not for solo consumption.

Been very quiet on this thread. How are those who have had the Robot for a while finding it?


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## mcrmfc

Step21 said:


> I've just taken delivery of a barista (pressure gauge) Robot from coffee24 in Germany.
> My first impression is surprise - it's so small and looks like a toy. The simplicity and quality of the machine is evident. It's my first foray into espresso so a learning curve lies ahead.
> I spent a little time just practising placing and locking in the portafilter. After rubbing water around the piston seal and top of the basket it eased a bit after initially being unable to seat the portafilter. I now see a sachet of molykote lube in the box with a spare seal.
> I got the pressurised basket in addition to the professional one supplied. I found this useful for warming up the pf and piston while preparing my first shot. Just pour in boiling water and lock it in.
> I'm using my Hausgrind to grind so took a guess at an espresso grind setting which turned out to be too coarse for the 14g dose. I did the fill and discard technique covered on HB with water off the boil. I'm not sure that I did it correctly - are you supposed to discard all the water? That involves inverting it which seems wrong.
> I found it harder to lock in the pf with the water in and due to the coarse grind and low dose drips were beginning to appear. Panic setting in! Might try the lube.
> Turned out a low pressure (no crema) shot almost like that from an aeropress. The surprise was it tasted pretty good just a tad sour but very drinkable with a touch of dilution. Obviously need to go finer.
> I was using a medium roast HMC Ethiopian SO.
> Really easy to clean up. It's going to be fun using the Robot. Just looking at it makes me smile.
> Has there been any more word on a single basket? I'm used to 13.5g doses for filter but the 14g "shot" seems way more caffeinated. I'll try bigger doses when splitting but not for solo consumption.
> Been very quiet on this thread. How are those who have had the Robot for a while finding it?


Personally I would start with something dark roast (then you only need to do a simple pre heat of the pf on hot water), dose 17-18g and start on the finer side (if you choke the machine then you know your grinder is capable) then loosen as required.

Do a really good wdt and pi for 10s at start of shot.

Once you have it dialled in you should be able to get consistent 'perfect' shots with plenty of crema esp with darker roasts.

Adding a paper filter (draw round tamper for template using any filter paper) disk under the screen is fun to try and can help things to the next level.

It took me a good 5 ish sink shots before I got close first time so you will be fine.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam

@Step21, don't put any lube or grease between the portafilter basket and the gasket where the seal is formed. If you do that, you will risk a portafilter sneeze and you will have your kitchen redecorated for you.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@gravelmonkey, something which might be of interest to you....


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## 9719

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Step21, don't put any lube or grease between the portafilter basket and the gasket where the seal is formed. If you do that, you will risk a portafilter sneeze and you will have your kitchen redecorated for you.


You'd be welcome to turn up here & do a little redecoration if you feel so inclined


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## MediumRoastSteam

********** said:


> You'd be welcome to turn up here & do a little redecoration if you feel so inclined


It might not be to your taste though!


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## Step21

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Step21, don't put any lube or grease between the portafilter basket and the gasket where the seal is formed. If you do that, you will risk a portafilter sneeze and you will have your kitchen redecorated for you.


 At the moment when I remove the portafilter the basket sticks to the piston and I just gently angle it to one side to remove. To get it locked in I need to apply a little upward pressure from beneath.

So far I have not applied lube. From others experience it will ease off in time.


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## Step21

Here's a pic of the little chap beside the Hausgrind and Ikawa


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## Step21

So, 2 weeks in I thought I'd post my impressions of the Robot so far.

I'd read a lot about it mostly on the HB forum where the overall consensus is very positive. However espresso can't really be a simple as that given the acres of diagnostic help and analysis on coffee forums. Can it? So I was sceptical.

For me, so far, making good espresso on this has been a breeze. A few initial shots required to get the grind in the ballpark and get the feel of how much lever pressure is required to get a good shot. Once you have that muscle memory it's easy to find tune the grind. I've been sticking to 18g in. I don't time or weigh the output. No need. It just tastes good every time. I do add some dilution first. You can play around with long pre infusion for light roasts.

Being manual, I use my usual water. No scaling or electrics to go wrong. All stainless steel touching the coffee/water.

I find the pressurised basket great for pre heating. Just pull an water only shot before loading up the professional basket. I use the aeropress funnel to transfer the grounds from the Hausgrind to the pre heated pro basket. RDT seems necessary for my setup. I use a couple of bent plastic coated wires - the type used for sealing freezer bags or tying up electric cable for transit. Tamping hardly seems to matter. I've forgotten to do it and still get a great pour without channeling. Press screen on top and fill with water right off boil. My preference is for a paper filter above and below the puck.

The pressurised basket is great for producing Moka or aeropress or even filter type shots. Filter or aeropress grind, 90sec pre infusion and pull. Very clean. Add dilution if required.

It has exceeded my expectations then some. If you don't need a steaming capability this should imo be a contender for anyone looking to get into espresso. If you go off grid, caravan etc it's highly portable. If you're only pulling the occasional shot it's ideal. If you are limited for worktop space it will go in the cupboard.


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## Step21

I had email correspondence with Paul Pratt the other day regarding the possibility of a single basket.

It is unlikely in the immediate future, due to the development cost which is similar to the price of a family car, as he put it. I think he needs to generate some profits from more sales before this can happen.

Paul suggested that by using a paper filter in place of the dispersion screen I should be able to get down to 10g or possibly lower.

I've been trying that out. It seems a bit trickier to get a level tamp but with a low pressure pull I've managed to get a couple of tasty shots at 10g on my first couple of goes. Having go very fine with the grind. Still not fine enough yet.

Anyone else tried lower doses?


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## rytopa

My experience is using the Robot feels almost like cheating.. its so easy to use and clean up is done in less than a minute. I find myself using it more than my pump machines..


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## Step21

rytopa said:


> My experience is using the Robot feels almost like cheating.. its so easy to use and clean up is done in less than a minute. I find myself using it more than my pump machines..


 Sssh! That's libelous.


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## mcrmfc

Hoff's a fan:


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## dsc

rytopa said:


> My experience is using the Robot feels almost like cheating.. its so easy to use and clean up is done in less than a minute. I find myself using it more than my pump machines..


Exactly the reason why I'm considering one, seems like the perfect machine for a very quick shot and very little clean up + almost no waiting time for warm up.

T.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Very interesting. Was rather surprised with regards to the thermal management... Just adding water off the boil. Very different in that respect when comparing to the Flair.


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## Step21

Preheat or not really depends on what type of roast you are using.

It is completely unnecessary and probably detrimental for dark roasts. It's probably necessary for the lightest of roasts. For medium I'd say it's more of a personal preference.

I've pulled shots on the lighter side of medium without pre heat and they taste good as they do with a pre heat. Maybe mutes acidity a little without?

It really has the most forgiving nature.

I think some people have memories of the ROK machine and thermal management problems. It is a non issue with the Robot. It just works.

Btw Hoffman's method of weighing the water is not recommended. The recommended method is to always fill the basket with water to approx 1cm below the top. If you use less (especially with a low dose) you can't generate as much pressure and may get a spongy feeling pull. Better off getting some small scales.


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## the_partisan

How do you weigh the output? I don't think my Brewista Smart Scale would fit under it.


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## dsc

Get a tiny pocket jewellers scale, there's millions of those on ebay.

T.


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## Step21

Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.

But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.

For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.


----------



## dsc

Step21 said:


> Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.
> But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.
> For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.


3:1 ratios are in lungo territory so if you pulling even longer shots then you are outside of normal espresso ratios. How much water fits in the PF? The Hoff went I think with around 50g, so around 3 x the dose as it would most likely absorb it's own weight in water and then give you smth close to 2:1. To get a shot larger than 3:1 with a 17g dose you'd theoretically need more than 4 x 17g = 68g of water (17g absorbed and 3x17g pushed through coffee). Will that fit in the PF?

It might be worth just checking at least once how much beverage you are actually getting in the cup


----------



## ashcroc

Step21 said:


> Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.
> But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.
> For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.


If you measure what you're doing for the larger shots you like (but keeping the amounts the same), you should be able to convert it to get a similar taste for your smaller dose.


----------



## Step21

dsc said:


> 3:1 ratios are in lungo territory so if you pulling even longer shots then you are outside of normal espresso ratios. How much water fits in the PF? The Hoff went I think with around 50g, so around 3 x the dose as it would most likely absorb it's own weight in water and then give you smth close to 2:1. To get a shot larger than 3:1 with a 17g dose you'd theoretically need more than 4 x 17g = 68g of water (17g absorbed and 3x17g pushed through coffee). Will that fit in the PF?
> 
> It might be worth just checking at least once how much beverage you are actually getting in the cup


 The capacity of the basket is 120ml. I don't know how much volume a 17g dose + shower screen takes up.

I normally use the spouts to split 17g shots and it's very awkward to weigh anything with them attached. Doesn't leave much room for scales either. Next time I'll weigh the output after the shot but lungo ratio is easy to achieve.

I'm only interested in how it tastes, so if I'm going beyond the norms so be it.

My point really is that it's very easy to use whatever ratio of type of roast happens to be your preference. Maybe if all you ever drink are the lightest of roasts you might want something more exacting but at a price way beyond the Robot.


----------



## Step21

ashcroc said:


> Step21 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I use the type of scales @dsc mentions.
> But mostly I don't use scales other than to measure the dose. I find that for 17g or thereabouts and filling up the basket to just below the top then extracting all the coffee gives me shots I really like. I don't actually know the input/ output or the time. I realise this seems like an amateur approach but it works for me.
> For smaller shots I use scales and stop at 1:3 but I don't like these shots as much.
> 
> 
> 
> If you measure what you're doing for the larger shots you like (but keeping the amounts the same), you should be able to convert it to get a similar taste for your smaller dose.
Click to expand...

 I can but using a finer grind makes it a bit silty for my preference. I get very clean cups at a coarser grind. I'm also using paper filters under and above the puck. But at the finer grind it gets a little silty.


----------



## Step21

Results from a 17.13g dose + shower screen and filling up to a little below the top ( there is no marker so you have to eyeball it) is 58g output. So I'd reckon approx 75ml water in the basket.

So a little over lungo ratio for a full pull. I'd estimate 18/19g would be the maximum dose for a lungo. If you used a paper filter instead of the shower screen you could go slightly higher with the dose to get lungo.

Similarly without the shower screen you can go lower than 12g. 10g is the lowest I've tried.

Maximum recommended dose is 22g. Minimum 12g.


----------



## Stevebee

Third shot on the Robot. 17.0g in 40.5g out in 38s. Preinfusion for 6s at 2 bar, then 8 bar declining to 4 bar at the end.

TDS was 8.2% with EY 20.2% which is similar to what I get on the L1.

Niche on virtually the same grind as the L1, medium roast. Taste and texture was very good. Will try the EK later as I get +2% EY compared to the Niche when using the L1. Back to back workflow much easier and less messy than with the Flair. Just got a PacSafe travel case which can fit the Robot, accessories and the Feld47 with ease. The case is the same size as the box it was delivered in so not too cumbersome. My Robot's arms do not stay up but does not matter really to workflow. 8 bar is a fair amount of effort but you soon develop a technique that works best.

I stopped the shot at 36g but by the time I'd taken the photo, as my arms don't stay up, a few more grams went into the glass!


----------



## Step21

Stevebee said:


> Robot's arms do not stay up but does not matter really to workflow. 8 bar is a fair amount of effort but you soon develop a technique that works best.


 The arms aren't meant to stay up but it seems that some do initially. Old school, but it works is to put an elastic band between the claws to hold them up while you sort everything out after pulling the shot. I do this while preparing the shot and inserting the portafilter to give 2 free hands. Glad you like the Robot.


----------



## Stevebee

I'm grinding 5 or 6 marks finer on the Niche compared to the Flair. Due to the the difference in puck size I think being wider and shallower than the Flair. Once dialled in though, the taste of the shot is good on both.


----------



## Stevebee

Step21 said:


> The arms aren't meant to stay up but it seems that some do initially. Old school, but it works is to put an elastic band between the claws to hold them up while you sort everything out after pulling the shot. I do this while preparing the shot and inserting the portafilter to give 2 free hands. Glad you like the Robot.


 Small elastic band worked perfectly. 2 or 3 now in the travel case.


----------



## Deidre

Stevebee said:


> Third shot on the Robot. 17.0g in 40.5g out in 38s. Preinfusion for 6s at 2 bar, then 8 bar declining to 4 bar at the end.
> 
> TDS was 8.2% with EY 20.2% which is similar to what I get on the L1.
> 
> Niche on virtually the same grind as the L1, medium roast. Taste and texture was very good. Will try the EK later as I get +2% EY compared to the Niche when using the L1. Back to back workflow much easier and less messy than with the Flair. Just got a PacSafe travel case which can fit the Robot, accessories and the Feld47 with ease.


 I noticed you mentioned having the Robot, Flair & L1. While recognizing the three are very different from each other in design & use & cleanup, I am interested in knowing if you find any differences in the flavour & mouthfeel of the espresso from the L1 compared to the fully manual levers? Do you get a better shot from the fully controllable manual levers than you do from the L1? (I find the temperature & preinfusion pressure on the L1 are somewhat controllable, but only to a point. My suspicion would be that the fully manual gives more control & therefore potentially a more customized output?)


----------



## Stevebee

If you could get the Robot to start at the same temp as the L1, which is possible, then do a 1.3 bar preinfusion for the same time followed by 7 bar declining to say 5 bar, the shots are in the same ballpark flavour wise and EY. Puck prep on the Robot is trickier as it's so deep it's difficult to see if it's 100% level so that could affect Extraction if not level. The L1 is just so much more repeatable one after the other but taste and body were similar using the Niche. Only done a few with the EK and so far it's definately not matching the L1 - more shots needed I think.

The Flair also produces very tasty shots but different - I'd say nearer the PV Lusso I had until recently. Don't know if it's the basket shape or the different grind settings I have to use. When dialled in though, very tasty. The major difference for me though is workflow. With the Flair I bought additional baskets so I could do consecutive shots, the Robot's workflow is more like a standard group. Pre heat is more straightforward - I put the cylinder of the Flair in the kettle whilst boiling, the Robot at most is fill and pour away once.

I'd happily drink an espresso from either and glad these two great options for espresso on the go are now available.


----------



## RoStrong

I'm interested to know where people in the UK bought their Robot if they didn't get it in the original kickstarter.

Previous posts say the German Coffee24 site, there is Cafelat Store which ships from Hong Kong.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance

R


----------



## DDoe

I'm interested in getting one of these sometime but wondering if much strength is needed to push the arms down. Strange question I know but I fractured my wrist last year and have lost some overal strength along with pain if I overdo it.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## Step21

RoStrong said:


> I'm interested to know where people in the UK bought their Robot if they didn't get it in the original kickstarter.
> 
> Previous posts say the German Coffee24 site, there is Cafelat Store which ships from Hong Kong.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> R


 As I indicated previously I bought mine from the coffee24.de website. I got mine about 3 days after ordering. Website was in German but I managed with Google translate.

You can obviously purchase it from the Cafelat site based in HK.

My thinking was that with the German site I new the final cost and didn't have to worry about import tax from HK. Delivery from HK is around 70 US dollars. 10 EUR from Germany.

In the end I doubt that there will be much difference in what you pay.


----------



## Step21

DDoe said:


> I'm interested in getting one of these sometime but wondering if much strength is needed to push the arms down. Strange question I know but I fractured my wrist last year and have lost some overal strength along with pain if I overdo it.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


 I find that you do need a fair bit of force to generate 9 bars but most of this comes from the shoulder muscles rather than the wrist. I get my bodyweight over the levers and push down which actually means that you can't see the pressure gauge. You can use less pressure, I think 6 bars is recommended but I like a bit more. I am by no means strong, quite the opposite.

My son tried it for the first time the other day and found it a struggle. I guess there is a technique you develop after a while.

You could probably extend the arms in some simple way to get a little more leverage.


----------



## dsc

Step21 said:


> I get my bodyweight over the levers and push down which actually means that you can't see the pressure gauge.


Isn't the gauge on a flexi lamp type arm which means you can position it so that it's still visible at odd angles?

T.


----------



## Step21

dsc said:


> Isn't the gauge on a flexi lamp type arm which means you can position it so that it's still visible at odd angles?
> 
> T.


 I don't know, maybe the newer ones do but mine is fixed. Although mine is relatively new I bought from a reseller so their stock may not be the latest. Possibly an advantage of buying direct from Cafelat?

But to be honest, I only look at it for pre infusion around 2 bars then ramp up by feel. I have asked someone else to look for me and they said it went up to 9 bars. Some people have employed mirrors or turn the machine around to see what the dial reads.


----------



## Stevebee

DDoe said:


> I'm interested in getting one of these sometime but wondering if much strength is needed to push the arms down. Strange question I know but I fractured my wrist last year and have lost some overal strength along with pain if I overdo it.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


 I bought mine from Cafelat and the gauge is fixed. The best technique re strength I've found is as mentioned before using body weight. I actually have the Robot facing away from me, load the portafilter and lean over and gentle press on the levers. This way your control over the pressure is much easier and smoother and you can see the gauge. My wrists are under no stress at all.


----------



## dsc

@Stevebee Can I ask what the total was including taxes, fees etc.? Just trying to compare ordering from Germany vs directly from Cafelat.

Also, noticed that they sell smth called professional baskets for the Robot:

https://www.coffee24.de/CAFELAT-Robot-Filter-Professional

I reckon this comes as part of the Barista model anyway?

T.


----------



## Stevebee

@dsc It was in US dollars but converted was £350. Fedex delivered but invoiced later for a £53 custom charge.

I think my Flair with the additional pressure gauge and additional pistons / baskets which are needed to help workflow adds up to £300


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## mcrmfc

@dsc - i think they are confusing "professional" and "pressurised" in that ad....the pressurised basket is the non standard add on thing you buy if you want tp use pre-ground.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk


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## dsc

@Stevebee So overall it was around £400? Seems like the same as the cost when ordering from Germany. Also surprised to see Flair being much cheaper, although from what I've read somewhere above the Robot is much quicker to use?
@mcrmfc they seem to offer both a pressurised and professional version although it seems like the basket that comes with the machine anyway.

T.


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## mcrmfc

@dsc if you order direct you actually choose which basket when you order:

https://www.cafelatstore.com/products/robot-espresso-maker

Then of course you can order others as you choose as extras.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk


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## Step21

dsc said:


> @Stevebee So overall it was around £400? Seems like the same as the cost when ordering from Germany. Also surprised to see Flair being much cheaper, although from what I've read somewhere above the Robot is much quicker to use?
> @mcrmfc they seem to offer both a pressurised and professional version although it seems like the basket that comes with the machine anyway.
> 
> T.


 I got mine from coffee24. The pro basket comes as standard. You can additionally order more baskets either pro or pressurised if you want. I ordered an additional pressurised one which I use for warming it up by pulling a dummy shot.

The cost was about £400. Approx 430 EUR. So depends on the current exchange rate.


----------



## Stevebee

dsc said:


> @Stevebee So overall it was around £400? Seems like the same as the cost when ordering from Germany. Also surprised to see Flair being much cheaper, although from what I've read somewhere above the Robot is much quicker to use?


 @dsc Yes £400. The Flair is closer in price if you get pressure gauge. I've just sold my Flair with accessories when I bought the Robot. With medium roasts the preheat routine is workable on both. I bought additional baskets for the Flair so I could make 3 consecutive shots without having to clean out the basket each time. Don't need this with Robot as it works like a standard portafilter, just knock out puck. I just preferred the Robot workflow but the gauge, for me, is essential on both machines. For travel, the Flair is a much smaller package but I never used the Flair at home whereas the Robot I am each day - despite having the option of an L1 or Vesuvius.


----------



## dsc

Hmm having sold my L1 I'm on the hunt for a Robot, Barista version but they seem to be sold out pretty much everywhere including Cafelat themselves. Anyone knows a place which still has some stock left?

T.


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## dsc

They are back in stock on Cafelat's own website. Got one ordered : )

T.


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## Stevebee

dsc said:


> They are back in stock on Cafelat's own website. Got one ordered : )
> 
> T.


 You won't regret it - I've still got my original plumbed L1 but use the Robot to produce 4 consecutive espressos 3 days a week. The grind setting for the Robot is the same as for my L1 so this helps me if I've dialled a coffee in on the L1 first.

Just ensure you've got enough beans for when it lands!


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## dsc

Got the machine last week, kudos to Paul for super fast assembly and shipping!

So far I've pulled only a handful of shots, but I do agree that it definitely delivers. Still trying out different doses, prep methods etc. The biggest issue I have is puck prep due to the basket's depth. Tamping is also tricky, much harder to get a level tamp and I'm not a massive fan of the tamper that comes with the machine.

What is everyone using in terms of dose? Hard / light tamps? Pressure profiles? Preinfusion?

T.


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## Stevebee

17g, stir with Londinium distribution tool, then light tamp. Virtually same grind as the L1. Similar profile, 1 to 2 bar preinfusion until drips start then 9 bar gradually tailing to about 5 or 6 bar. Takes about 35 seconds in all but guided by pressure. You know if it's too coarse or fine . The distribution tool helps with getting it more even for tamping but agree it's tricky as the basket is quite deep. This is with a medium roast level bean. I have the gauge facing away from me and lean over to see it using body weight to control the pressure - much easier and smoother this way. Use an Acaia Cinco scale but the Lunar also fits with just the corner.


----------



## dsc

What about heating things up? I normally use boiling water to rinse / fill the basket, then wipe down, fill with coffee and add water to pull a shot. The issue is that after wiping down the basket it cools down very quickly, so that by the time I've finished tamping it's only slightly warm to the touch. Adding off the boil water heats it up again of course, but that water also cools down due to heating up the basket and it also heats up the piston, so I'm not so sure I'm not pulling shots with water that is waaay too cold.


----------



## MWJB

dsc said:


> , so I'm not so sure I'm not pulling shots with water that is waaay too cold.


 Wouldn't that be obvious in terms of under-extraction?


----------



## dsc

MWJB said:


> Wouldn't that be obvious in terms of under-extraction?


Yes and I'm not entirely happy with the taste (I was overly dramatic when I said "waaaay too cold" above).


----------



## Stevebee

I put the basket and piston in a cappuccino cup and fill with boiling water. Gives time for the Stainless to heat up.

Once hot, I then fill, tamp, add the shower screen and finally the straight boiling water on top.

Works for medium roasts, haven't tried very light yet. Compared the temp in cup from an L1 and Robot and very similar.


----------



## Teeny Hodges

Can anyone advise whether my Comandante C40 can provide the correct grind for the Robot.

Thanks.


----------



## mcrmfc

Teeny Hodges said:


> Can anyone advise whether my Comandante C40 can provide the correct grind for the Robot.
> 
> Thanks.


I think it would be fine, my Kinu hand grinders have all had comparable results with my Niche using the Robot + the grind required is fine but not as fine as you would need on a pump machine.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk


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## a_aa

Stevebee said:


> I put the basket and piston in a cappuccino cup and fill with boiling water. Gives time for the Stainless to heat up.


 The piston?! I really really hope you meant the portafilter. If not, the Robot may be down from the top position on my shortlist of espresso gear I'm considering to order.

If you have experience in using your Feld47 in combination with the Robot, I would really appreciate your thoughts on that (if I do end up ordering the Robot, I was hoping to get a good team if I paired it with my own Feld47).


----------



## dsc

I also heat up the piston as I find it brews too cool with lighter roasts. Bit of a faff but doable, I fill a glass with boiling water, stick the basket and PF in it whilst I grind. Then take the basket out of the water, dry, fill, distribute, tamp, paper filter on top, shower screen on top, drop the whole thing in the PF. Then stick the glass with water under the piston and lower it, so that it's submerged, after that the basket gets filled with boiling water, glass comes out from under the piston, PF gets locked and it's ready to pull a shot.


----------



## a_aa

Thanks, @dsc!

I was visualising dismantling and assembling and hot water and red skin and swearing, but that doesn't seem to be very fiddly  If you have a medium roast, would you skip the piston routine? And a darker roast with no pre heating at all?

Btw: Would a longer pre infusion phase to some extent compensate for a slightly low temperature?


----------



## dsc

I've not really done many experiments, at first I was assuming that just preheating the basket would be enough, but the sad reality is that it's not. The basket hasn't got a lot of mass and so doesn't retain a lot of heat, it's warm to the touch after dose prep, you could say that it's almost pointless heating it up in the first place. Piston on the other hand isn't light or thin, so it makes sense to heat it up imho, but it's kind of a bitch to get to (it only sticks out half an inch when lowered).

Paul Pratt recently said on his IG account that he doesn't bother with any heat ups and using dark roasts, finds it fine.


----------



## a_aa

Thanks again, @dsc!

The Robot is still on top of my shortlist, but that position is a little less clear now. But I have to confess; for me, part of the joy with any equipment is finding the tricks and mods to take it further towards some kind of optimum  No challenges = boring.


----------



## Stanic

I'm glad I didn't get the Robot, as the water boils at 97°C at the elevation we live at, so that might cause issues


----------



## Step21

I bought an additional pressurised basket and pull a dummy shot before the proper shot. I put the professional basket in a cup and heat it with boiling water before pulling the dummy shot then afterwards swap the pro basket into the PF and prepare the shot. The pressurised basket sticks on the piston when I release the PF ( has always done this - not intentional) but it serves to keep heat in the piston while preparing the shot. A simple twist removes it before loading the actual shot.

The dummy shot heats the piston better than anything else I've heard of people doing. It's very simple.

Paul Pratt has a video showing the increase in temperature before and after pulling successive shots.


----------



## a_aa

Thanks, @Step21!

I was considering to add an extra basket or two if I'd end up ordering a Robot - but not any pressurized. Do you think a professional would do the pre-heat-job OK, with any kind of extra flow resistance in it (paper, cell foam, cheap coffee, crammed cotton, whatever)?

Edit: Or simply a disk with a gasket in it?


----------



## a_aa

Stanic said:


> I'm glad I didn't get the Robot, as the water boils at 97°C at the elevation we live at, so that might cause issues


 I think you are trying hard to convince yourself


----------



## Step21

a_aa said:


> Thanks, @Step21!
> 
> I was considering to add an extra basket or two if I'd end up ordering a Robot - but not any pressurized. Do you think a professional would do the pre-heat-job OK, with any kind of extra flow resistance in it (paper, cell foam, cheap coffee, crammed cotton, whatever)?
> 
> Edit: Or simply a disk with a gasket in it?


 The pressurised is ideal because very little leaks out. I think possibly @mcrmfc uses or made a silicon bottom for a pro basket ?

I boil the kettle, stick an elastic band between the levers to hold them up, then fill the pressurised basket inside the PF, insert PF with a cup underneath and leave it while I grind ( I use a hausgrind hand grinder). Meanwhile the pressurised basket is heating in another cup. So there is a fair bit of heat transfer into the piston even before pulling the dummy shot.

I don't really use the pressurised basket for anything else but it didn't cost much and takes a lot of the hassle out of pre heating.

Most roasts I use are light medium for wont of a better description. Personally I think very light roasts are better for filter than espresso. But I have had success with pretty light roasts. Darker stuff needs no pre heat and is probably better without it.

I honestly find the Robot so easy to use and have done since day one.


----------



## Stanic

a_aa said:


> I think you are trying hard to convince yourself


 Nah mate I've got the Portaspresso so I've been through all the pre-heating stuff (nailed it atm) and I've got the MaraX coming next week hopefully, but I'll admit, I was thinking of getting the Robot for all the glowing reviews and great design by a reputable manufacturer.


----------



## a_aa

@Stanic: You gotta take the time to pre-heat anyways...  But seriously, the ACS Minima and the Lelit Mara X, as well as the LaPavoni Europiccola have circulated in my speculation attic. But I've ended up with a goal of keeping it as simple and manual as possible without loosing the possibility of an outstanding cup. Now and then


----------



## Teeny Hodges

Is there a trick to keeping the translation on the coffee24 site ? It starts off in English, but reverts to German when doing shipping details etc.


----------



## TheHToad

a_aa said:


> @Stanic: You gotta take the time to pre-heat anyways...  But seriously, the ACS Minima and the Lelit Mara X, as well as the LaPavoni Europiccola have circulated in my speculation attic. But I've ended up with a goal of keeping it as simple and manual as possible without loosing the possibility of an outstanding cup. Now and then


 I am in the exact same boat as you. Been debating the lapavoni, as I do make milk based drinks. now sort of 80% settled on the robot, and bought a bellman steamer for milk steaming.

Just waiting for the germany websites to have them back in stock now. Hopefully this will last me longer than my sage DTP before I get another upgrade


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

TheHToad said:


> I am in the exact same boat as you. Been debating the lapavoni, as I do make milk based drinks. now sort of 80% settled on the robot, and bought a bellman steamer for milk steaming.
> Just waiting for the germany websites to have them back in stock now. Hopefully this will last me longer than my sage DTP before I get another upgrade


I have a La Pavoni and a a Niche. I like milk based drinks in the morning. Like you, I though of the Robot + Bellman.

Then I watched James Hoffman's video of milk frothing devices... so decided to stick to the La Pav.

How are you finding the bellman?

Was thinking of this...

Dualit CN452 Cino Milk Steamer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017U8TIFW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_V.UXEbSQ14S9
But at that price (£235) might as well stick with the La Pav as a steamer only.... if I ever go into the route of the a Robot.


----------



## TheHToad

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I have a La Pavoni and a a Niche. I like milk based drinks in the morning. Like you, I though of the Robot + Bellman.
> 
> Then I watched James Hoffman's video of milk frothing devices... so decided to stick to the La Pav.
> 
> How are you finding the bellman?
> 
> Was thinking of this...
> 
> Dualit CN452 Cino Milk Steamer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017U8TIFW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_V.UXEbSQ14S9
> But at that price (£235) might as well stick with the La Pav as a steamer only....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if I ever go into the route of the a Robot.


 waiting on my delivery. I'm already used to steaming from sage DTP, which is good enough, but by no means powerful. So I thought the bellman wouldnt be too bad, will let you know once I've got it


----------



## a_aa

TheHToad said:


> I am in the exact same boat as you. Been debating the lapavoni, as I do make milk based drinks. now sort of 80% settled on the robot, and bought a bellman steamer for milk steaming.


 Nice to know I'm not sailing solo  I saw Hoffmanns review of the Bellman, and the review left me a little puzzled... Do Bellman put a product out in the market that can blow up your apartment, or was that possibility simply an awkward feeling in the reviewer? Does it have a SRV? Or is built to withstand pressure more or less impossible to reach in a normal kitchen? Appreciate it a lot if you let us know how you get along with that mysterious thingy 👍


----------



## TheHToad

a_aa said:


> Nice to know I'm not sailing solo  I saw Hoffmanns review of the Bellman, and the review left me a little puzzled... Do Bellman put a product out in the market that can blow up your apartment, or was that possibility simply an awkward feeling in the reviewer? Does it have a SRV? Or is built to withstand pressure more or less impossible to reach in a normal kitchen? Appreciate it a lot if you let us know how you get along with that mysterious thingy 👍


 I personally feel that it is as safe as things like the la pavoni, as long as the gaskets are good and you make sure you screw it on tight. Also, I jumped ship regarding robot. Found a vintage ZEROWATT Lever Espresso 707 to go with the bellman. Just couldnt resist it getting the collectable. No steamer, but electrical boiler, direct lever machine. Couldnt resist it. The robot will have to wait unfortunately.

Had a look around reviews regarding the exploding part of bellman. I think I only came across 1. Most complaints are more regarding the steaming properties, but found a lot of people who also have success with it, so yea


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

TheHToad said:


> I personally feel that it is as safe as things like the la pavoni, as long as the gaskets are good and you make sure you screw it on tight. Also, I jumped ship regarding robot. Found a vintage ZEROWATT Lever Espresso 707 to go with the bellman. Just couldnt resist it getting the collectable. No steamer, but electrical boiler, direct lever machine. Couldnt resist it. The robot will have to wait unfortunately. Had a look around reviews regarding the exploding part of bellman. I think I only came across 1. Most complaints are more regarding the steaming properties, but found a lot of people who also have success with it, so yea


The la Pavoni has two safety mechanisms: a pressurestat and a pressure safety valve (pops at 2 bar pressure I think).

Edit: looks like it does have a safety valve, on the handle.

When you receive it, could you please confirm them to us?

Maybe Mr. Hoffman hasn't done his homework?

Edited again: it comes across as it's a dangerous device as it has no gauges etc... but to his defence, he never says it does not have a safety valve. But yeah, scary nonetheless.


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## a_aa

I'm now the undisputed captain of this ship, and my grinder (Mr. Knock) allows me to boldly declare that fact. Sorry to see you abandon ship, but when I googled the ZEROWATT, I do get your WEAK resistance to its charms ...  Let's see if Mr. Bellman will sign on here later, he may be a good petty officer?


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## TheHToad

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The la Pavoni has two safety mechanisms: a pressurestat and a pressure safety valve (pops at 2 bar pressure I think).


 The bellman also have a safety valve at the handle. So I highly doubt the pressure gets higher than necessary.


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## TheHToad

a_aa said:


> I'm now the undisputed captain of this ship, and my grinder (Mr. Knock) allows me to boldly declare that fact. Sorry to see you abandon ship, but when I googled the ZEROWATT, I do get your WEAK resistance to its charms ...  Let's see if Mr. Bellman will sign on here later, he may be a good petty officer?


 I will return some day, wait for me brother


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## a_aa

Yesterday HongKongPost announced that its SpeedPost service had opened to Norway again (Link). And the US dollar, which was up 30% from January 1st to March 19th here in Norway, is finally approaching pre-corona levels. This really takes me closer to pulling the trigger, and order a Robot Barista Pro.

But, what extras would be wise to include in my order?

I was thinking one or maybe to extra baskets, and the silicone mat. Maybe paper filters. And what about piston seals and bottom gaskets? If they last a long time, I'd think the material could harden (or I'd put them in a very clever place, which would be impossible to remember when it was time to do a fix...)

Anyone with any advice? What extras did you get?


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## Step21

a_aa said:


> But, what extras would be wise to include in my order?
> 
> I was thinking one or maybe to extra baskets, and the silicone mat. Maybe paper filters. And what about piston seals and bottom gaskets? If they last a long time, I'd think the material could harden (or I'd put them in a very clever place, which would be impossible to remember when it was time to do a fix...)
> 
> Anyone with any advice? What extras did you get?


 I got the silicone mat and an extra piston seal along with a sachet of lube included as standard when I bought mine. The only extra I purchased was a pressurised basket which makes warming up the piston very easy. The robot doesn't have a bottom gasket - not sure what you are meaning?

I'm still on the original piston seal and have never lubed it. It's supposed to last for years. Over on HB forum a few have report seal problems but I can't make sense of what they are doing. Probably overfilling the basket with water.

Paper filters weren't available when I got mine but are essential if you want to play with lower doses under 12g. Substitute for the shower screen in this case or you may bend or break the pin in the shower screen. You can cut one down smaller if you want one under the puck as well. They can be reused several times especially the upper.

I see that there is a new tamper (available?) but I don't understand how people can have problems with the original.

There is also a new screw in adaptor piece (again not sure if yet released) for the claws which might make pressing down on the lever ends more comfortable. I'd actually consider this.


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## a_aa

Thanks @Step21, that's very helpful and much appreciated!

I think I'll transfer the piston seals and the bottom gasket to the Buy-when-needed-category, and get two baskets instead, plus paper filters and possibly extra shower screen and a small knockbox 🙂 (Btw, I think the bottom gasket is what holds the portafilter spout in place, not essential at all.) https://www.cafelatstore.com/collections/types?q=Robot

I will have to get some more information on the possibility of at new tamper (self levelling?) and a new comfortable pressing thingy. Nothing on Cafelatstore yet, but I'll send them an email and ask if anything like that can be expected to turn up in their web shop in the (near) future.


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## Step21

a_aa said:


> Thanks @Step21, that's very helpful and much appreciated!
> 
> I think I'll transfer the piston seals and the bottom gasket to the Buy-when-needed-category, and get two baskets instead, plus paper filters and possibly extra shower screen and a small knockbox 🙂 (Btw, I think the bottom gasket is what holds the portafilter spout in place, not essential at all.) https://www.cafelatstore.com/collections/types?q=Robot
> 
> I will have to get some more information on the possibility of at new tamper (self levelling?) and a new comfortable pressing thingy. Nothing on Cafelatstore yet, but I'll send them an email and ask if anything like that can be expected to turn up in their web shop in the (near) future.


 The inventor occasionally posts about new developments on the home barista forum Cafelat robot thread (mega thread ). That's where I saw the new tamper ( yes self levelling) and claw attachment. Response to emails is good IME.

The split pour attachment for the PF just twists on/off - I've never had any problems with the seal on it. It's all really well made.


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## a_aa

I've sent two emails to cafelatstore, with no response at all. A little disappointing.

Anyways, when I checked their webshop today, the "Robot hands" are available, and there's an upgrade option for the tamper on the Robot page. But when I try to upgrade, it's "Sold Out" 

Later this evening I went to read home-baristas mega thread, and it seems I'm a day late for the self leveling tamper. Both the hands and the tamper became available yesterday - but the tampers are gone today...

So. I'll keep doing my V60 and Aeropress for a while. I can enjoy that, too


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## a_aa

The Red Robot is officially launched next week:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.instagram.com/p/CF1Wmp4BNG-/?igshid=134tnl845o7r9

My "disappointing" communication with CafelatStore improved immensely after I ordered a Blue Robot and requested a change of colour to Red back in late July. As long as I was willing to wait for the launch, it was OK with them - and a wait was OK with me  Very happy with the service from them. Received my Red Robot mid September, and I really really like it - the design and the workflow, and - as I get the hang of it - increasingly consistent good results. Medium (espresso) roasted beans work fine with MBK Feld 47 set at appr 1:10, btw. Will try lighter and darker roasted beans later.


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## MildredM

a_aa said:


> Received my Red Robot mid September, and I really really like it


 Congratulations 😁 I really like the smart new red colour. As much as I like the retro colours I think this new colour will appeal to a whole new would-be buyers 😁

Sounds like you're thoroughly enjoying using it!


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## 2971

Evidently I'm really bad at tamping level, and that's with the supposedly self-levelling tamper. Any tips? My fingers are too fat to reach into the basket when tamping


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## 2971

wintoid said:


> Evidently I'm really bad at tamping level, and that's with the supposedly self-levelling tamper. Any tips? My fingers are too fat to reach into the basket when tamping


 In case anyone is interested, this basically has become a non-issue now. I use the self-levelling tamper, and very light pressure (almost just the weight of the tamper), but I nutate. This means that the sides of the self-levelling tamper are restricted by the sides of the basket. I get an even tamp almost every time now.


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## eyeabee

I've had a very similar experience - my tamps have also been much more consistent since I started nutating with the self-levelling tamper. The BPF is a real blessing for assessing my rookie consistency!


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## NikC

I use the original tamper and nutate to get it level and centred, and the press the top with my thumbs- fairly lightly. It's become second nature now.


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