# Why is my puck sticking to the shower screen???



## Deeez Nuuutz

Hi all, hopefully someone can advise because this is really starting to annoy me now!

I've always dosed 18g but for the last few weeks every puck is sticking to my shower screen post extraction. Whether I use the mrs decaf or either of the 2 beans I currently have on the go, when I remove the PF after pulling a shot the puck is missing with just a small part stuck to the bottom of the basket which has broken off with most of it remaining stuck to the shower screen.

When I get the puck off the shower screen it's still wet and soft, like wet sand, not dry like they used to be.

I've tried reducing my dose a little to 17g and even 15g but it still does it.

Any suggestions please would be most appreciated because it's really starting to get to me now.

Tony


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## 9719

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Hi all, hopefully someone can advise because this is really starting to annoy me now!
> 
> I've always dosed 18g but for the last few weeks every puck is sticking to my shower screen post extraction. Whether I use the mrs decaf or either of the 2 beans I currently have on the go, when I remove the PF after pulling a shot the puck is missing with just a small part stuck to the bottom of the basket which has broken off with most of it remaining stuck to the shower screen.
> 
> When I get the puck off the shower screen it's still wet and soft, like wet sand, not dry like they used to be.
> 
> I've tried reducing my dose a little to 17g and even 15g but it still does it.
> 
> Any suggestions please would be most appreciated because it's really starting to get to me now.
> 
> Tony


I've had it before on a different machine, on the sage can you loosen the pf and give a very short blip before removing the pf that worked for me


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## Mrboots2u

I do not mean to sound dismissive but there are endless threads on pucks sticking to the group head, and you will get the sae advice from the same people each time .

personally id try and ignore it and enjoy your coffee.

Here are a few for example .

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?45188&p=608738#post608738

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?32022&p=427459#post427459

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?43594&p=582654#post582654


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## jlarkin

I saw somebody that had the problem and updosed to 19g (I think it was) and they said that helped. I've never found a consistent way to avoid it, just it happens for me on some coffees and not others. I think when the grind is on the finer end but I've not kind of tracked it precisely - as said the blip the button normally does the trick. It doesn't really matter what the puck looks like as long as the coffee is tasty (though I do still find the sticking part irritating).


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## El carajillo

On an E61 brew head if you snap the brew lever down too quickly / sharply , you can cause a slight vacuum that will lift the puck

and cause it to stick to the screen. Is the coffee ground a little too fine ?


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## Mrboots2u

El carajillo said:


> On an E61 brew head if you snap the brew lever down too quickly / sharply , you can cause a slight vacuum that will lift the puck
> 
> and cause it to stick to the screen. Is the coffee ground a little too fine ?


Its a sage


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## xpresso

Is that 18g in the 18g basket you have ?, are you giving it a reasonable tamp ?, weighed in weighed out over time ?.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz

Thanks for the replies.

Forgot to mention, it's a Sage DB.

Yes I'm tamping with reasonable heft, even tried tamping as hard as I could and it still happens. Weighing 18g into a 18g VST basket.


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## xpresso

Screens not dislodged by any chance, all the holes clear in the filter basket.

What changed when this started happening, apart from the puck sticking.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz

Screen is in place, I remove it every few days for a proper clean. Basket and PF are cleaned after each and every shot.

The only difference apart from the sticking is maybe different beans but I've tried 3 different beans and it's happening on all of them. Even my mrs decaf, which didn't do it before.


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## ajohn

Mrboots2u said:


> Its a sage


Not exactly - It's a DB and they do seem to be prone to it. The Barista Express just has the problem over a very very small weight range easily avoided. Not so the DB.

I don't know how many Kg of my usual bean I have put through the DB without a single puck sticking but I'm not sure why. I used a kg of elephant recently and didn't manage a single shot without the puck sticking after trying all sorts of weights in the basket. I'm also using a pretty normal bean that turns out a bit weak in my americano with a 14g basket so stuck 17.8g in the double - it didn't stick. A one off so far. I was using various weights of them in the 14 basket but all stuck. All over 14g though as 14 is right for my usual MM drink. It's a light bean.

As the pucks with my usual bean just fall out I suspect the answer is a slightly low fill but in all honesty pass.







Maybe they go magic roundabout zebedee syle, 3 way sucks them up and like zebedee go boing and spring back.






I hadn't seen any comments about this on the DB so asked about it on here - fair few same heres. Also found a retailer that mentioned that an unusual number of their customers have the problem also a reply from Breville there - effectively it happens and nothing can be done about it as it has a 3 way.

The fix was also mentioned - short push on the shot button. I suspect the gauge needs to get up to 2 bar and releasing the portafilter a bit may help.

IMHO it's an engineering problem that they just haven't sorted out. Maybe Doogle worked on it or they weren't given the time to sort it out. It also seems that white gloves always overfill. Maybe they don't stick then. Not a way I usually work as it needs coarser grinding. Maybe 6bar etc brewing prevents it - some one who uses these machines this way would need to comment. Maybe they don't expect people to brew with the OPV open - seen a hint about where they put the flow meter.

The machine itself - it does have a number of virtues.

John

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## Mrboots2u

@ajohn it's not an e61 is it..no sage has an e61 brow group

Other machines suffer from this too, so it's not just a sage design error.

It's just a bi product of making espresso sometimes


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## mmmatron

I've had this with certain beans. One particularly delicious LSOL (can't remember which one) did it every shot. It's a PITA but the easiest solution is to ignore it.


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## ajohn

Mrboots2u said:


> @ajohn it's not an e61 is it..no sage has an e61 brow group
> 
> Other machines suffer from this too, so it's not just a sage design error.
> 
> It's just a bi product of making espresso sometimes


The BE and Piccino isn't either. Never happened on the Piccino. It did on the BE with higher fill levels in the single, an extra 0.2g stopped it from happening, adding 0.2g could cause it. Probably more or less the same on the double as it was with the 14g basket I used on it. I suspect if the Piccino and other machines were examined where this doesn't *usually* happen a restriction would be found some where in the 3 way exhaust route to profile the rate the brew pressure drops at. Joey added a 3 way to a DTP and was wondering about adding restrictions. It wont be a dead easy thing to sort out.

John

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## Deeez Nuuutz

I have also tried removing the PF immediately after pulling a shot and leaving it for a few minutes and I still get the same result.

It doesn't effect the taste and it still gives me great tasting coffee, it's just a little irritating that's all and wondered if I was doing anything wrong.


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## ajohn

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I have also tried removing the PF immediately after pulling a shot and leaving it for a few minutes and I still get the same result.
> 
> It doesn't effect the taste and it still gives me great tasting coffee, it's just a little irritating that's all and wondered if I was doing anything wrong.


To me it spoils the machine. You could try reducing the dose by say 0.2g steps and see if a few of those prevent it from sticking. I've tried finger on the shot button. Best option seems to be keep finger on and let the pressure get up to 2 or 3 bar then release. It's pretty brief. Top of puck is usually wet when it works.







I expect to get the knack eventually.

John

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## Nicknak

Could it be the the difference head space above the puck . The sage basket on the oracle took more coffee than it does on my E61 .. So a VST maybe needs a bit more on a Sage ??. Perhaps.

Using the basket dosing tool as a measure might give you an idea ..

Never had sticking on the oracle or E61


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## ajohn

Nicknak said:


> Could it be the the difference head space above the puck . The sage basket on the oracle took more coffee than it does on my E61 .. So a VST maybe needs a bit more on a Sage ??. Perhaps.
> 
> Using the basket dosing tool as a measure might give you an idea ..
> 
> Never had sticking on the oracle or E61


Sage use a higher fill height than what could be called normal machines. They can all vary a bit but as far as I am aware all are lower than sage. An oracle may be set up to use Sage dosing levels. This according to a few and maybe only one report means over dosing by the white gloves service on a DB. A significant amount of over dosing as well. @dfk41 may be able to fill you in.

I found the razor tool very useful on the Barista Express usually on the single basket as I wanted to get the max amount of grinds into it. As the weight changes as the grind setting is altered I set up for too much and used the razor tool to trim the dose each time the grinder setting was changed eventually using the weight it gave as a starting point - usually adding a bit more. I tried this on the DB when it arrived and it didn't work out at all and spent many many shots trying to find out what the fill height should be. One curious thing was that when the fill level was obviously too low the puck looked more or less normal. I'd have expected it to be wet.

On my bean that never sticks the level is a little lower than what the razor tool would leave. I'ev put several kg of these through it. I'm using a none standard shower screen though and I think that does reduce the available space over the puck. It definitely does around the rim. At one point I thought it helped - not at all sure now. It's an IMS woven Gaggia screen. It collects a lot of grinds which to me points to a problem with the 3 way exhaust. No warrantee on my DB so I will be seeing if this can be "improved" but my workshop will be unusable for another month or so.

John

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## 4085

Certain beans are 'lighter or less dense', like Monsooned Malabar....this means that you have to have more of them in the basket to get the desired weight, which inevitably means more ground coffee......only option is to put less in


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## Dylan

These threads never cease to amaze me.

Just turn the group on for a second once you remove the pf and it will fall out. What's the big deal.


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## Shaf

Sorry I am a newbe . Out of curiosity is it possible the screen if fitted in upside down ? Might be in place but upside down ?


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## xpresso

Shaf said:


> Sorry I am a newbe . Out of curiosity is it possible the screen if fitted in upside down ? Might be in place but upside down ?


I suppose someone with a like for like machine may be able to comment on that.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz

Shaf said:


> Sorry I am a newbe . Out of curiosity is it possible the screen if fitted in upside down ? Might be in place but upside down ?


No. The screen only fits one way really as the screw counter sinks into the screen.


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## Craig-R872

I've tried many beans and a couple have sometimes stuck. But I have found using a dose lower than 19g the puck seems to stick much more. For me a dose of 20g works really well without any sticking.


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## Deeez Nuuutz

Craig-R872 said:


> I've tried many beans and a couple have sometimes stuck. But I have found using a dose lower than 19g the puck seems to stick much more. For me a dose of 20g works really well without any sticking.


I'll give a go, Craig. I haven't tried anything greater than 18g yet so it's worth a try.


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## MLG

Craig-R872 said:


> I've tried many beans and a couple have sometimes stuck. But I have found using a dose lower than 19g the puck seems to stick much more. For me a dose of 20g works really well without any sticking.


You also might try to use a specially coated shower-screen.. something like E61200NT

Quote:

"This model of shower is coated with the application of nanotechnology, a High NanoQuartz Coating that enhances the non-sticky feature of this shower.

The quartz coating will improve the water flow, make the cleaning process of the shower a simple wipe and increase extraction consistency. More durable and more resistant."

LINK


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## ashcroc

MLG said:


> You also might try to use a specially coated shower-screen.. something like E61200NT
> 
> Quote:
> 
> "This model of shower is coated with the application of nanotechnology, a High NanoQuartz Coating that enhances the non-sticky feature of this shower.
> 
> The quartz coating will improve the water flow, make the cleaning process of the shower a simple wipe and increase extraction consistency. More durable and more resistant."
> 
> LINK


Don't think that'll fit a Sage DB.


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## MLG

ashcroc said:


> Don't think that'll fit a Sage DB.


It was just an idea, to look out for these type of shower-screens.

I don't know the Sage, but after 2 searches i found these> LINK and LINK

These are common sizes, so you will find from IMS for sure which will fit in just right.

Also try lovering your dosage, or change the grinding granulation the problem may come from there also.


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## ajohn

Craig-R872 said:



> I've tried many beans and a couple have sometimes stuck. But I have found using a dose lower than 19g the puck seems to stick much more. For me a dose of 20g works really well without any sticking.


I'm getting the impression that under dosing or over dosing can prevent the puck from sticking. I don't use the double much but have been using a bean that is a bit weak in a 14g basket for the size of drink I make. Done several shots in it with 17 to 18g and no sticking but as the top of the pucks are rather wet I suspect it's under filled. Also some puck was left behind when I knocked them out - I usually increase the dose when either of these happen. I intended to keep increasing the weight to see if it started sticking again but have nearly run out of the bean. My usual bean doesn't stick and the puck more or less falls out when the portafilter is inverted. Just leaves a few grinds behind.

Some one reported that the white gloves service over dose when they demo a db, by several g by the sound of it.







They wouldn't want a puck to stick.

John

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## Scotford

I'm convinced that some coffees do it when they have reached peak extraction, any more than they can take and they start to stick. I have no basis for this theory. My solution is upping the shot time by up to 4 secs and reducing the yield by 2-5g.


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## ajohn

I'm now more convinced that reducing the dose stops it but past some point it gets sucked up and sticks. 3 different beans and no sticking.

My reason for past problems might be down to 14g of monsooned malibar, dark roast. That hasn't stuck since day 1 but the volume happened by accident. They have a lower density than many and I expect to use up to 1g+ more using any other bean. They all vary a bit though. I suspect what is happening is the same as I used the BE on purpose especially the single. I'd up the dose dose slowly until it stuck and then add another 0.2g and all would be ok. Any more and the strength of taste tends to drop off and had more effect on grind setting. I know I was hitting the shower screen because I used the hole in the shower screen retaining screw as a guide to keep the grind timer set correctly - slight signs of a pip.

Things don't seem to be so simple on the DB. I used one bean at 17 initially and then upped by 0.5g but ran out before getting over 18.5. Those may be light beans New bean and started at 18 and no sticking but this one is a touch too strong so switched to the 14g. No sticking with 14 in it same as MM.

Puck behaviour when I changed the weight was as expected. 17 rather wet and a fair amount left when I knocked it out. Improved as I upped the weight. The 18.5 more or less came out cleanly. My 14g of MM does too and more or less falls out when the portafilter is inverted.







I do know from early days with the BE that go too high and the portafilter has to be used like a sledge hammer to get it out. Even with a "sensible" dose it took more effort than the ones that have come out cleanly on the DB.

John

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