# beans and grinding



## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Hi

I have a Baratza Preciso grinder and have until recently been using beans from the supermarket.

Last week I decided to try some Square Mile (fresh coffee) and have had to adjust the settings from my usual grind settings. Is this normal?

Thanks


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## BongoSteve (Apr 10, 2012)

Yep pretty much all beans react differently, even small things like how long after roasting, and ambient temperature can matter. In the case of Square Mile beans, they're on the lighter end of the spectrum which would result in quite a different grind from darker beans - especially if they're supermarket ones...

I wouldn't worry too much about what the grind is compared to previous beans, but more about trying to find a grind setting to get your desired output in the 25-30 ish second window.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Hi Jonathan,

I also have a Preciso and I also found that I needed to use a much finer grind setting for Square Mile beans when they are fresh.

I actually found that my Preciso couldn't grind fine enough for Red Brick to make a nice espresso (flow was too fast) but there are many modifications you can do to solve this.

How are you brewing your coffee? Do you have an espresso machine? If you need to do any of the modifications to allow you to grind finer I can assist in this.

Don't hesitate to ask any further questions you might have


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Cheers guys for your help!

Fatboyslim I'm having the opposite problem to you! My coffee is clogging my Gaggia classic rather than flowing too fast??

Guys what amount of coffee should I be using for a double shot?

Cheers for your reply?


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## BongoSteve (Apr 10, 2012)

Bit of a can of worms there! Most people would go for somewhere in the region of 18g. It is also an option however to go for a more traditional dose in the region of 14-15g.

Are you using 0.1g scales? They're a big help!


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Hi Steve

I'm not too sure on the scales sorry, Ill just nip and try your suggestion of 14-15g.

Let you know


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## BongoSteve (Apr 10, 2012)

No worries - some people like the more scientific approach to making coffee to help with trying to make a good shot repeatable - for that reason they use scales which are accurate to 0.1g to weigh out beans. Domestic scales which are only accurate to the nearest 1g find this hard to achieve (e.g. 14.0g is very different from 14.9g - but it won't show on domestic scales)

It sounds like a big investment, but you can pick them up for a fiver on ebay. I found it helped me a lot, and eliminated one more variable for when I'm trying to dial in.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Jonathan007 said:


> Cheers guys for your help!
> 
> Fatboyslim I'm having the opposite problem to you! My coffee is clogging my Gaggia classic rather than flowing too fast??
> 
> ...


It's interesting, some people choose to change the dosage, not the grind and tamp.

I personally find so long as it's level, it's the grind which is more the issue, but I think a typical double for the izzo is 18g, but iirc it depends on the coffee.

I was surprised nobody had mentioned how stale supermarket beans are, no matter how you grind them, water will run right through.

Not sure i've heard of the baratza preciso but it's been a while since I looked at grinders.

I'd wonder whether you're grinding too fine for the square mile beans, is it like sand or finer?


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> It's interesting, some people choose to change the dosage, not the grind and tamp.
> 
> I personally find so long as it's level, it's the grind which is more the issue, but I think a typical double for the izzo is 18g, but iirc it depends on the coffee.
> 
> ...


Its like fine sand but I'm currently working upwards. I'm bordering on drip grind now.

These beans have thrown me massively.


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

BongoSteve said:


> No worries - some people like the more scientific approach to making coffee to help with trying to make a good shot repeatable - for that reason they use scales which are accurate to 0.1g to weigh out beans. Domestic scales which are only accurate to the nearest 1g find this hard to achieve (e.g. 14.0g is very different from 14.9g - but it won't show on domestic scales)
> 
> It sounds like a big investment, but you can pick them up for a fiver on ebay. I found it helped me a lot, and eliminated one more variable for when I'm trying to dial in.


Cheers Steve

I will look into some of those, sounds interesting.

I just tried 15g which has produced a lot less than a usual dose.

If I use, as I normally do a straight edge to flush off the dose when I tamp the coffee seems so dense my tamp hardly compresses (sinks into the dose).


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Jonathan007 said:


> Cheers Steve
> 
> I will look into some of those, sounds interesting.
> 
> ...


Strange, sounds like it's either really fine and powdery or possibly an uneven grind?


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

OK

Right after using my whole bag of freshly roasted beans on trying to dial in (Baratza Preciso) a setting where the flow wasn't so slow (no improvement)

Using fresh beans I measured out 18g (using Steve's recommendation of using scales of 0.1g increments) of beans, then grinded. I completed this for a variety of settings but before I managed to get the correct setting my bag of beans was empty.

Using the same settings for both grinder and scales I went forward with a shop bought bag of Lavazza beans straight away the coffee flowed! Probably a bit fast even!

The main things I noticed apart from the flow, was that when I measured out 18g of both fresh and shop bought coffee the actual amount of fresh coffee was less in volume than the shop bought?? 18g of Lavazza was flush with the top of the basket before tamping, but with the fresh beans, prior to tamping the coffee was under flush??

Is this the difference between fresh and shelved?

Thanks


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Different beans can be different densities. The level of roast plays a part too. Generally a darker roast is less dense.

You'll need to dial in again for each bag of beans, but you'll get a feel for it and waste fewer beans.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Dark roasts are less dense = greater volume in portafilter when grinding.

Light roasts are more dense = smaller volume in portafilter for same weight.

Light roasts = less oily providing less resistance so require finer grind.

Dark roasts = more oily (often visible on bean surface) require a coarser grind.

Shop bought/stale beans = little to no natural oils present, finer grind required - may not achieve required extraction rate.

Fresh beans = more oils present providing resistance so coarser grind required - go finer as beans age.

There are obviously variance within these general categories and each batch will be roasted slightly differently. In order to get consistent, having a set weight ratio to extract too and standard tamp are imperative. I wouldn't recommend switching between roast type (light/dark) all the time as there will be a large difference in grind setting required and hence lots of wastage dialling in. You will struggle to get anything tasting great from supermarket beans IMO.

For me I use fresh lightly roasted beans and even when switching bean type and roaster I know I will only need to slightly adjust my grind setting each time and as the beans age.


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks for the input guys

I will certainly take this on board and report back when I have re grouped!

Cheers


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Jonathan007 said:


> OK
> 
> Right after using my whole bag of freshly roasted beans on trying to dial in (Baratza Preciso) a setting where the flow wasn't so slow (no improvement)
> 
> ...


Fresh vs shelved have lots of differences, no doubt the shop bought has lost a bit of density over time, roast may have been different etc etc.

If you didn't get anywhere near the right time for a shot you're still grinding too finely, tamping too hard, or the pressure at the brewhead is too low.

What machine was this on?


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## Jonathan007 (Aug 15, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> Fresh vs shelved have lots of differences, no doubt the shop bought has lost a bit of density over time, roast may have been different etc etc.
> 
> If you didn't get anywhere near the right time for a shot you're still grinding too finely, tamping too hard, or the pressure at the brewhead is too low.
> 
> What machine was this on?


The machine being used is a Gaggia Classic.

Thank you


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