# Black particles in water...



## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

I picked up my first classic last week and only got around to having a play with it yesterday, only to find that when running some water through it, there was a few little black particles and a small amount of lime scale in the water.

1. Should I be looking to flush this out wit some descaler?

If so should I opt for the Gaggia liquid or tartaric acid? (I have some tartaric acid but I'm not sure what ratio I should use, or I can order some gaggia solution online)

2. Strip out e boiler and clear it out with a dremel style tool?

3. Replace the boiler.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I'm a little bit gutted to say the least, as I was really looking forward to making some proper coffee


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Have you cleaned the shower screen (and above it)? If not, those particles could be very old coffee grinds (tiny ones) or solidified coffee oils. A thorough clean (including either replacing the screen or soaking in Cafiza or similar) should resolve that part of the problem. Then just a decent de-scale should do the rest of the job.

If you remove the boiler then use new seals, and much as I like to see things restored fully, I also believe that stripping something down always carries a risk that you may break a component or introduce a new problem. So, by all means strip it down and descale by soaking in tartaric acid solution, don't Dremel it. You only need a couple of tsp in a litre of warm water, you'll know whether it was enough by the state of the parts after a few hours. If not enough then make a choice whether to repeat or strengthen and repeat.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

AndyDClements said:


> Have you cleaned the shower screen (and above it)? If not, those particles could be very old coffee grinds (tiny ones) or solidified coffee oils. A thorough clean (including either replacing the screen or soaking in Cafiza or similar) should resolve that part of the problem. Then just a decent de-scale should do the rest of the job.
> 
> If you remove the boiler then use new seals, and much as I like to see things restored fully, I also believe that stripping something down always carries a risk that you may break a component or introduce a new problem. So, by all means strip it down and descale by soaking in tartaric acid solution, don't Dremel it. You only need a couple of tsp in a litre of warm water, you'll know whether it was enough by the state of the parts after a few hours. If not enough then make a choice whether to repeat or strengthen and repeat.


Yep shower screen and the plate above (with the 4 outlet holes) removed and ran the water with these removed and still black particles.

do you think should run some more tartaric acid through the boiler then? I dissolved 2 tsp in the full water tank last time so maybe a little weak?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Tartaric axid will be fine to descale. It was the active agent in gaggia's own powder before they went to a fluid.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Tartaric axid will be fine to descale. It was the active agent in gaggia's own powder before they went to a fluid.


Great thanks, I'll try 2tsp in a litre of water and see how I get on.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

**Quick Update**



So got home last night and realised thatthe water tubes going from the tank to the water pump and OPV are ratherdiscoloured, so I took them off and after a closer inspection I noticed thatthey were a little 'gunked' up inside (my guess is that it wasn't properlydrained/dried when the previous owner had packed it up to store the machine)anyway I soaked them for half an hour in warm soapy water any gave them a goodcleaning out with pipe cleaner then soaked in milton sterilising fluid beforerinsing and refitting them.

Then I flushed 3 full tanks of fresh waterthought the system, 'looking good' I thought, it appeared to be running muchcleaner now and the black particles were no longer there&#8230;.. Then I refitted theblock that fits behind the shower screen and then the shower screen, ran a cupof water through and surprise-surprise more black particles thank before L *turns machine off and goes to bed*

I'm just hoping they were residual from the showerscreen/block behind it.

When I get home this afternoon I'll take just the showerscreen off and run a tank or 2 of water through and see how that goes.

My question is - would I be better letting the boilerheat up and running hot water through or keeping it cold?

Sorry did I say 'quick' update


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If your Classic is a pre-2015 model, with aluminium boiler and aluminium dispersion plate, black particles are most likely aluminium oxide.

Using powerful acids will dislodge aluminium oxide from the aluminium parts, especially if a machine has not been used in a long time.

First thing to do with any pre-2015 Classic is to replace the shower plate with a brass one:

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Gaggia-Brass-Shower-Plate-Holder-57x14mm---WGA16G1002/m-1976.aspx

The boiler should be taken off the machine and soaked in mild citric and lactic acid dilution.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

It sounds as if some particles have settled in the boiler / system, try one tankful with cold water then allow to warm up for second tank.

DO NOT continuously run the pump, you will burn it out, run for a minute then let it rest then rerun .

If this does not completely clear it you may need to run some cleaner through the machine.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Pull both the shower screen & dispersion plate off & give them a cleanup. You can safely descale without them so a good flush while they're off won't hurt.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

dev said:


> If your Classic is a pre-2015 model, with aluminium boiler and aluminium dispersion plate, black particles are most likely aluminium oxide.
> 
> Using powerful acids will dislodge aluminium oxide from the aluminium parts, especially if a machine has not been used in a long time.
> 
> ...


Thank i'll get one ordered


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Diggy87 said:


> Thank i'll get one ordered


If you're at all handy it's probably worth getting a service kit to fit at the same time.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

El carajillo said:


> It sounds as if some particles have settled in the boiler / system, try one tankful with cold water then allow to warm up for second tank.
> 
> DO NOT continuously run the pump, you will burn it out, run for a minute then let it rest then rerun .
> 
> If this does not completely clear it you may need to run some cleaner through the machine.


By cleaner, do you mean the Gaggia decalcificante? if so I have a bottle on order just in case


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> If you're at all handy it's probably worth getting a service kit to fit at the same time.


Ahh I saw this after I'd checked out. If it does need stripping down I'll get one ordered though.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

It seems as though the 'black' particles are little compressed chucks of coffee.... I fished one out last night to check that it was metallic and as I squished it I was left with a little pile of ground coffee, could this have been flushed back into the boiler somehow?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Diggy87 said:


> It seems as though the 'black' particles are little compressed chucks of coffee.... I fished one out last night to check that it was metallic and as I squished it I was left with a little pile of ground coffee, could this have been flushed back into the boiler somehow?


It shouldn't have got all the way to the boiler but grounds can get behind the shower screen & dispersion plate when the 3 way solenoid kicks in at the end of the shot.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> It shouldn't have got all the way to the boiler but grounds can get behind the shower screen & dispersion plate when the 3 way solenoid kicks in at the end of the shot.


I've had the shower screen and plate off and it's still there when I run it without them on though?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

You should really take the machine apart and see what's inside the boiler. Make sure you label the cables.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

dev said:


> You should really take the machine apart and see what's inside the boiler. Make sure you label the cables.


I think you're right, although I'm not looking forward to it!!


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

Stripped down and cleared the scale off today. It was loaded up with scale

This seems to have solved he scale problem but I now have a dripping steam want that I didn't have before, I don't seem to be having much luck


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