# Australian latte



## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

Hello everyone

I'm very new to this but have spent a large chunk of my time in Melbourne, Australia in the last few years. Whenever i got back to the UK i couldn't stand the coffee. It's as big of a jump down from Australia to the UK as from the UK to most of the USA i think.

So being entirely fed up with uk coffees I've decided I'm going to try and make a decent latte myself.

I was hoping to get some advise from anyone familiar with Melbourne lattes. Would i be able to reproduce this with a sage duo temp and mazzer super jolly? What beans would people recommend?

Thanks everyone.

Looking forward to getting a better latte than Costa.


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

Is anyone familiar Melbourne lattes? Really hoping for someone to say i can recreate this with something like a sage duo temp and mazzer sj rather than having to spend thousands.

I take it my results are going to be better than Costa at least?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

I'm not familiar with the Melbourne latte. Can you describe it?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Coffee and steamed milk ..... in some degree of ratio . Can't be that hard . Taste your after may more than likely be a function of the type of roast and beans they are using. Which again would not be impossible to replicate


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## crmdgnly (Apr 12, 2017)

Had a lot of Queensland flat whites and the odd Melbourne one; can't say my experience of Aus coffee was significantly different than the UK other than there seemed to be more opportunities to get very good coffee. The UK seems to have a lot of run of the mill, acceptable coffee shops. I think, since you know what you are aiming for, just try experimenting. You'll get good shots, but you might need to explore beans and roasts to get the exact taste you are after.

While in Aus I was a sucker for an iced latte (something to do with Qlds high temps and high humidity ;-) so with all of that ice and milk not the most challenging thing to reproduce ;-)


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Wouldn't that simply be a flat white? Fairly sure that term originated in Australia.

Also fairly sure a hand grinder and an entry espresso machibe will get you coffees better than Costa, so the combo you mention will be more than enough.

T.


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## KirinChris (Mar 20, 2017)

I never ordered a latte in Melbourne - are they served in a long glass as it mostly comes in the UK, or is it in a cup? Either way you should have no problem replicating it with a decent ratio of milk to espresso.

But if you're in London you should also be able to find some decent coffee shops. It doesn't have the density of St Kilda or Fitzroy where espresso vigilantes roam the streets and banish second-rate baristas to Sydney, but there are quite a few around - many of them run by Aussies and Kiwis, come to the aid of the mother country.


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

I lived in London for 3 years and am now in Melbourne. My Gaggia Classic and Mazzer SJ still keeps me from buying coffee here in Melbourne.

My advice is to take the plunge, experiment with some beans, and enjoy!

I ended up regularly getting beans from Climpson and Sons, but the are so many good roaster to choose from that a quick forum search will have you sorted for choice.


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

Thanks everyone, i am very excited now after hearing these comments. Have to assure my wife that her coffee experience will be comparable to Melbourne lattes to justify the cost.

I've always found Melbourne lattes to have very smooth flavours but i suppose it's the milk texture that really seems different from the UK. Even good cafes in London seem to have frothy foam whereas in Melbourne it's very velvety.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Holmes said:


> Thanks everyone, i am very excited now after hearing these comments. Have to assure my wife that her coffee experience will be comparable to Melbourne lattes to justify the cost.
> 
> I've always found Melbourne lattes to have very smooth flavours but i suppose it's the milk texture that really seems different from the UK. Even good cafes in London seem to have frothy foam whereas in Melbourne it's very velvety.


Are you checking out speciality coffee places in London or just "good cafes"? I think you'll find places in London that definitely don't make it too frothy, have a look on this thread for some ideas - whilst you're considering plans for machines. Also depending on where you're based, people might be able to make some suggestions.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Milk texture hardly depends on geographical location


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Stanic said:


> Milk texture hardly depends on geographical location


Well if you're not careful about where you go then it's easy to find crap milk in many a cafe here, so geographic location may help or hinder you.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> Well if you're not careful about where you go then it's easy to find crap milk in many a cafe here, so geographic location may help or hinder you.


In that sense yes  I meant that it might not depend on the location but skills and willingness to produce a good drink.

I've had a test Costa latte from a gas station lately, almost puked in my mouth  the milk was not only super hot but also probably old..

Regarding traditional cafés, it can be that in some areas people are used to have more airy and foamy milk..also depends on type of drink, where I work we do a different texture for cappuccino - more dry, milk for flat whites or lattes gets less air and more folding and is finished at lower temperature


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Stanic said:


> In that sense yes  I meant that it might not depend on the location but skills and willingness to produce a good drink.
> 
> I've had a test Costa latte from a gas station lately, almost puked in my mouth  the milk was not only super hot but also probably old..
> 
> Regarding traditional cafés, it can be that in some areas people are used to have more airy and foamy milk..also depends on type of drink, where I work we do a different texture for cappuccino - more dry, milk for flat whites or lattes gets less air and more folding and is finished at lower temperature


Haha!! You were brave, testing a Costa from the fuel station!!

Traditional cafe is a good term. I had a cappuccino in a branch of John Lewis (department store type place) at Christmas. I needed a knife to slice the foam, then when I accessed the contents of the cup underneath I rather wished I hadn't!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

MildredM said:


> Haha!! You were brave, testing a Costa from the fuel station!!
> 
> I needed a knife to slice the foam, then when I accessed the contents of the cup underneath I rather wished I hadn't!


not brave but stupid









lol good one


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

It's good to be told that it's nothing to do with location. As a newbie it's easy to assume that it must be something to do with the water or type of milk used as literally every cafe in Melbourne does amazing lattes. Don't have to look for specialists at all.

Now can anyone tell me why bread in France tastes a million times better than the UK even though we're separated by 20 miles?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Holmes said:


> Now can anyone tell me why bread in France tastes a million times better than the UK even though we're separated by 20 miles?


It's the water they use


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Holmes said:


> Now can anyone tell me why bread in France tastes a million times better than the UK even though we're separated by 20 miles?


food is a religion in France?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Holmes said:


> Now can anyone tell me why bread in France tastes a million times better than the UK even though we're separated by 20 miles?


Good bread can be found here. It's like that elusive good coffee. You have to know where to find it


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

It's a shame these things aren't standard though. Good bread and coffee should be normal like in France, Italy, Melbourne etc.. instead most people here think hovis and Costa are brilliant.

I suppose our pubs and ales are significantly better than anywhere else in the world though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Holmes said:


> It's a shame these things aren't standard though. Good bread and coffee should be normal like in France, Italy, Melbourne etc.. instead most people here think hovis and Costa are brilliant.
> 
> I suppose our pubs and ales are significantly better than anywhere else in the world though.


You need to look beyond the chains, plenty of people making great food and coffee in this country .


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Holmes said:


> I suppose our pubs and ales are significantly better than anywhere else in the world though.


I was in UK in 2007 when the smoking ban took place and the pubs got much better as I'm a non smoker..the beer..well, after attending the beer festival (Ølfest) in Copenhagen in 2015 I have to admit there were some of the best I ever had..love the Skovlyst brewery.

And don't get me started about bread and pastries from Claus Meyers bakery lol


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

There will always be exceptions mrboots2u but they are exceptions to the rule. I actually live in the East Midlands at the moment and it's almost impossible to find good food and coffee here (pub food aside). Maybe one or two places at the most. Most people i work with think Greg's is the best invention ever.

In London you have to go Borough market or queue for an hour to get into Ottolenghi or somewhere similar to get a decent lunch that doesn't involve mixing prawn and mayonnaise together. The suburbs are getting better and better though. Still has nothing on Melbourne's cafes and brunches.

I'm ranting like an old man now.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Holmes said:


> There will always be exceptions mrboots2u but they are exceptions to the rule. I actually live in the East Midlands at the moment and it's almost impossible to find good food and coffee here (pub food aside). Maybe one or two places at the most. Most people i work with think Greg's is the best invention ever.
> 
> In London you have to go Borough market or queue for an hour to get into Ottolenghi or somewhere similar to get a decent lunch that doesn't involve mixing prawn and mayonnaise together. The suburbs are getting better and better though. Still has nothing on Melbourne's cafes and brunches.
> 
> I'm ranting like an old man now.


Where in the East Midlands , i lived there for a period of time.


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

Derby. If you know any good places i would go in an instant. So desperate for a good food/drink experience here.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Holmes said:


> Derby. If you know any good places i would go in an instant. So desperate for a good food/drink experience here.


Yes .. Nottingham.

Good cafes there. Restaurants too.

Cartwheel roasters for one


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

Don't know Nottingham very well as i live on the other side of derby and takes me over an hour usually to get to Nottingham. But next time I'm there I'll check it out. Thanks.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Holmes said:


> Don't know Nottingham very well as i live on the other side of derby and takes me over an hour usually to get to Nottingham. But next time I'm there I'll check it out. Thanks.


 @fluffles for Nottingham tips


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

You want to try living in North Lincolnshire. I expect that's why we got into bread making a number of years ago.

There are are people who like and want good bread etc but the majority don't want to pay for it. Food for the masses is so cheap. I expect people have written thesis' on this very subject!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I grew up on Boston


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I never knew you liked that kind of music


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I grew up on Boston


I'm 'stumped' for a reposte to that!


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

Holmes said:


> It's a shame these things aren't standard though. Good bread and coffee should be normal like in France, Italy, Melbourne etc.. instead most people here think hovis and Costa are brilliant.
> 
> I suppose our pubs and ales are significantly better than anywhere else in the world though.


Good coffee in Italy? Lol.


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

It's been along time since I've been Italy.. i assumed this was the home of espresso. Is it no good?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Holmes said:


> It's been along time since I've been Italy.. i assumed this was the home of espresso. Is it no good?


Depends on your definition of good, they ain't big on latte's Australian or Italian inspired


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Holmes said:


> It's been along time since I've been Italy.. i assumed this was the home of espresso. Is it no good?


If you like it roasted very very dark then it'll suit you.... You'll see almost everyone adding sugar to their espresso. It's an acquired taste (definitely not mine!)


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

It seems like it would be really hard to find a third wawe café in Italy, they're happy with their arabica/robusta misceli, nobody would bother weighting in and out


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> @fluffles for Nottingham tips


fluffles top tips...

In terms of coffee: Greenhood, The Speciality, Cartwheel, Outpost if you like it on the lighter side, or 200 Degrees if you prefer darker roasts. All of these places do good food too.

I noticed talk of food and bread, so further recommendations are:

Small Food Bakery - Sourdough specialists, operating Friday and Saturday in Canning Circus

Tough Mary's Bakehouse - New bakery offering sourdough breads and amazing croissants, on Derby Road a bit closer to town than Small Food

Bar Iberico - More relaxed version of Iberico Tapas. Really good tapas-style food, reasonable prices.

Robbie's Street Food Revolution - Operates outside Rough Trade record shop

Kiosk - Excellent world-inspired veggie food in Cobden Chambers

All the usual "fayne dayning" stuff (that I'm increasingly growing tired of) - Sat Bains, Harts, La Rock


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I guess Australia will be similar to Italy in terms of climate and own good produce. It's hard to put together good quality simple dishes in the UK if the majority of veg is imported from Kenia, Guatemala etc. and is glass house grown. Look at Italy and how people buy fruit / veg over there at local markets and how most people buy fruit / veg in the UK at their local supermarkets. Tasteless packaged veg / fruit look-a-likes will never match truly good produce grown outside in the sun.

T.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

Holmes said:


> It's been along time since I've been Italy.. i assumed this was the home of espresso. Is it no good?


From my recent trip it's poorly extracted and badly roasted. Made in a hurry and sold cheap for the purpose of caffenation and not much else...

You'll get coffee in the UK as good as Australia. We're behind in the service and culture but not in the coffee quality. I did a month of cafe research out there and that was my principle finding. Just in the UK you need to know where to go...


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

I must have been in an alternative Italy: Bologna: Great espressos & caffe corretto...plus yummy food & icecream.

Also Faema E61 Legends in every other cafe & restaurant.


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## Holmes (Apr 21, 2017)

Just got back from Melbourne and pretty much had a brunch like this everyday. Walk into any random cafe or restaurant there and 9 times out of 10 you get amazing food.

Forgot to take a pic of the latte but when I was watching the lady make it she took so much care in making and pouring it. It was like she was in some zen like state.


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