# Clumpy E8



## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi Guys

I have noticed that my E8 is producing clumpy coffee grounds.










I have the heavier dosing curtain on, kindly provided by @foundrycoffeeroasters.com. It has been on for a few months, the grinder was clumpy before it was changed, but I am not sure if it was more of less clumpy.

If I look up the chute it looks like the coffee is perhaps getting stuck behind the curtain and clumping before it pushes through. Should the curtain block the chute entirely?

I have just given the grinder a through clean, taking the burrs out and scrubbing with a stiff brush, to no avail.

Any ideas, before I put the old curtain back on?

Thanks

Aaron


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Which coffee is it with Aaron? I've noticed that DSOL coffee clumping in my E8, I don't know much about curtains though...


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

It is the Island Roasted one.

I have just switched to the other curtain, and it is not better, might even be worse


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Is it making any difference in the cup ?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

It is making distribution a pain which I can see is causing problems when pulling shots with the bottomless PF


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

Did you find any difference between having a full or nearly empty hopper? Is it with particular beans or all of them? If it was related to the curtain being too stiff, the original one should have improved things, not made them worse.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

I will keep an eye on how the hopper load affects things


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## "coffee 4/1" (Sep 1, 2014)

here you go "de-clumper" my go to if it needs it or not.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Its been very very humid in Manchester of late. My grinder has been clumpy the last few days. I decided if Matt Perger wasn't going to worry about clumps I wouldn't either. So a couple of taps on side to spread it out and one tap down to collapse the mound and jobs a good un. I've not noticed any channeling or difference in the cup.

I'm sure the more fussy and refined palates will say I am wrong but that is how I see it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ridland said:


> Its been very very humid in Manchester of late. My grinder has been clumpy the last few days. I decided if Matt Perger wasn't going to worry about clumps I wouldn't either. So a couple of taps on side to spread it out and one tap down to collapse the mound and jobs a good un. I've not noticed any channeling or difference in the cup.
> 
> I'm sure the more fussy and refined palates will say I am wrong but that is how I see it.


Most minor clumps will break under a tamper or tapping

Ek43 is a clumpy beast sometimes, doesn't stop the shots being tasty..


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

How easy is it to get at that curtain @aaroncornish - or others? I think being an idiot, I managed to poke it today with a brush. I was thinking wow the E8 has been working great and I've hardly cleaned it, hmmm should clean it really let's just give it a once over...ah damn no please no.

Anyway, I think the curtain has moved a bit and is stopping coffee now, but I can't tell quite how to get at it. I had a very quick look at the instructions but couldn't see it in there...


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

I did manage it yeah, not too hard to be honest. Pretty self explanatory once you get into it

Aaron


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

jlarkin said:


> How easy is it to get at that curtain @aaroncornish - or others? I think being an idiot, I managed to poke it today with a brush. I was thinking wow the E8 has been working great and I've hardly cleaned it, hmmm should clean it really let's just give it a once over...ah damn no please no.
> 
> Anyway, I think the curtain has moved a bit and is stopping coffee now, but I can't tell quite how to get at it. I had a very quick look at the instructions but couldn't see it in there...


It's fairly easy, 10'minute job. The housing around the control panel comes off with a couple of screws after you take off the burr adjustment ring (just undo the hex bolts on the ring itself). There's a long bolt at the front, be careful as you take this one out as there is a thick washer on the end you can't see, it may drop out when you unscrew the bolt.

Then it's simply a case of lifting the plastic housing off carefully, leave it hanging down with all the cabling still attached. The chute will now be completely accessible. Undo the two screws that hold the chute on and you should see the curtain, self explanatory from then on.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hmm, I am still struggling with this.

Below is an image of grinds that I ground straight into the basket. This is the current Workshop LSOL - not some oily beast.









Forgive the noise - the phone was quite close to the action, so it's loud - but a few taps on the work top does nothing much to the clumps.






So I end up getting in there with a cocktail stick to try and break the clumps up. This is a total faff.









Driving me a bit loopy! No ideas what to try.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Noticed pictures weren't working on any computer except mine. Have reuploaded them


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Grind into a cup, give it good shake & tip it into the PF (on tared scales) via a jam funnel or similar. Then tap.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Grind into a cup, give it good shake & tip it into the PF (on tared scales) via a jam funnel or similar. Then tap.


Should you have to an E8 though?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Mines never been that clumpy with any beans but I know temperature and humidity etc make a difference...

I assume we're all storing our grinders in a specifically designed grinder humidor right?


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

Does it vary between different beans Aaron? Mine isn't completely clump free but it's not like yours. There isn't any sort of crusher on the grinder. Temp/humidity might impact but I don't know for sure. What is it that's worrying you about clumps? Are you thinking that there is an adverse impact in the cup? Doesn't tamping just make the whole puck into one big clump?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Dont know if this helps

Same LSOL beans through a Mythos 1 with a bit of clumping


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

How fine are you grinding, does the grinder have the flap fitted?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Grind into a cup, give it good shake & tip it into the PF (on tared scales) via a jam funnel or similar. Then tap.


I tried this, it was major faff and feels like it shouldn't be necesary with this grinder. I am more worried there is something up with the grinder.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

foundrycoffeeroasters.com said:


> Does it vary between different beans Aaron? Mine isn't completely clump free but it's not like yours. There isn't any sort of crusher on the grinder. Temp/humidity might impact but I don't know for sure. What is it that's worrying you about clumps? Are you thinking that there is an adverse impact in the cup? Doesn't tamping just make the whole puck into one big clump?


Hey Lee

It does vary, but it is always pretty bad.

I am worrying it is affecting the eveness of the extraction.

Now and again I get amazing shots, but more often than not, they are nothing to write home about.

I want to try and rule out causes of mediocrity and these clumps are step 1


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> How fine are you grinding, does the grinder have the flap fitted?


Hey CC

It has the silicone flap in the chute. I have tried the UK version and the European version - different thickness I believe for different climates.

Didn't see to make much difference

Thanks


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Have you hah it apart and cleaned it?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Different burrs i know, but the E10 with DSOL beans this morning were very clumpy, i put this down to the moisture in the air due to living on the boat.

Is your gear in the kitchen, nice and warm in the morning, any signs of condensation or moisture in the morning like on the windows?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Have you hah it apart and cleaned it?


Serveral times yeah. No immediate improvement after cleaning.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Different burrs i know, but the E10 with DSOL beans this morning were very clumpy, i put this down to the moisture in the air due to living on the boat.
> 
> Is your gear in the kitchen, nice and warm in the morning, any signs of condensation or moisture in the morning like on the windows?


It's in the kitchen, which is normally pretty cold in the morning, as it's in an extension at the back of the house.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

aaroncornish said:


> I tried this, it was major faff and feels like it shouldn't be necesary with this grinder. I am more worried there is something up with the grinder.


More faff than grinding into the PF and stirring?

Is there anything about the shots that makes you think there is something wrong with the grinder/evenness of extraction?

At what point do you weigh the PF?

How much do you purge between shots?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

I place the PF on the scales and tare, fill PF with coffee, check weight. Then beat the hell out of the grinds with large needle.

Then give the PF a gentle tap on the counter to settle grinds and nutate and tamp.

I check the extraction is even by sight with naked PF - checking the coffee extracts evenly across the PF.

I purge for about a second between shots.

Aaron


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Perhaps leave out the nutate.

What are your shot parameters & how are they tasting? If you have unevenness this should show up in the taste, maybe under-extracted, or tangy/sherbetyness that stays across coffees.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

aaroncornish said:


> It's in the kitchen, which is normally pretty cold in the morning, as it's in an extension at the back of the house.


A simple test, leave the grinder in the main house where its warm for a day or so, then grind as usual in the morning whilst still in the house, see if it clumps still?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Perhaps leave out the nutate.
> 
> What are your shot parameters & how are they tasting? If you have unevenness this should show up in the taste, maybe under-extracted, or tangy/sherbetyness that stays across coffees.


With current coffee I am pulling 35g of Espresso from 18g of beans.

I am just struggling to get much in the way of any flavour from the coffee.

Now and again I will get a really good shot, that smells and tastes delicious. Ther rest (99%) of the time it is very meh.

I have had more luck with blends.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

aaroncornish said:


> With current coffee I am pulling 35g of Espresso from 18g of beans.
> 
> I am just struggling to get much in the way of any flavour from the coffee.
> 
> ...


OK,18:35 is just a ratio, it doesn't guarantee a particular flavour.

Would you say the shots are watery & weak? "Meh", suggests they aren't objectionably sour? Would you agree?

How long do the shots take, from throwing the switch?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

MWJB said:


> OK,18:35 is just a ratio, it doesn't guarantee a particular flavour.
> 
> Would you say the shots are watery & weak? "Meh", suggests they aren't objectionably sour? Would you agree?
> 
> How long do the shots take, from throwing the switch?


They are particularly sour no.

I think Watery and weak is a fair assessment.

Normally take about 6-8 seconds before the coffee starts.

thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sorry, I meant how long do the shots take in total.

Watery & weak sounds like under-extraction, the usual fix would be to grind finer.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

30-35 seconds total


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

What happens if you grind finer & shots take longer?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Will try when I get home tonight. How long are we talking?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

As long as it takes for the shot to start tasting bad/different, maybe see up to 45s?

Really, focus on the ratio & taste, just note how long the shot takes.


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## FranD (Nov 25, 2015)

I've had a bit of minor clumping with my E8 over the past couple of days - not as much as you're showing there Aaron, but I've only been with the grinder for a couple of weeks so can't start to talk about trends.

Think I've just about found the sweet spot with my current beans at 18g > 35-40secs > 36g, a bit of a longer pull like Mark suggests. Quick bit of WDTing and taps, still small clumps before tamp but nothing to worry about I don't think.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Thanks Chaps, will try that tonight

Will keep you posted









Aaron


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

How did you get on Aaron?


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)




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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey Lee! Grinding finer, still clumping. Coffee tastes better though, 18g > 38g in 35-40 seconds. Weirdly I would say the coffee is more watery, but more clarity of flavour.


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

What coffee are you using? Weird that it's seeming weak to you, given your numbers. Are you using a naked? Does the extraction look to be even? - I'll send you another set of burrs to try if you want. Just let me know once you feel like you've gone as far as you can go.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

At the moment I have the LSOL from Coffee Compass.

I am going to do a full strip down of the burrs this weekend, waiting for silicone grease from Bella Barista.

I am using a naked yes, extraction looks fairly even, sometimes I will get two or 3 streams of coffee, they usually merge.

thanks everyone


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aaroncornish said:


> At the moment I have the LSOL from Coffee Compass.
> 
> I am going to do a full strip down of the burrs this weekend, waiting for silicone grease from Bella Barista.
> 
> ...


Did you freeze that coffee - otherwise isnt it quite old ?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Did you freeze that coffee - otherwise isnt it quite old ?


Receieved it 2 weeks ago, not that old, is it?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aaroncornish said:


> Receieved it 2 weeks ago, not that old, is it?


Fair enough - thought you had if from the original LSOL shipment . My bad , carry on ...


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

This feels like a slippery slope to a VST Refractometer


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

So, I have done a complete tear down and clean of the burrs, chute and dosing curtain.

The burrs looked to be in pretty good nick, bit grubby.

There was a lot of coffee gunk as I would expect.

The dosing curtain looked a bit messy but not damaged.














































Here is the cleaned curtain put back together










Put it back together... Still as clumpy.

So I started again...

What was interesting second time round was the state of the top of the chute and the curtain.

The curtain was jammed open and had clumps above it










As a last resort, I got rid of it and tried grinding again










Have run out of coffee now. Left my 1kg of espresso beans at work as didn't have space in backpack when cycling home


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

The picture doesn't really do the grinds justice. They were much fluffier than normal and those small clumps fell out with a tap


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Right, got some more coffee, will try a shot tonight with my butchered grinder


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Well what a difference a curtain makes. Very static now but clump free and super fluffy.










Made a big difference in the cup and mega crema


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Ha! Same experience with the Profitec t64 grinder. I removed the anti-static grid and the grind is now quite staticky, but clump free and very fluffy. The compromise for me is home made coffee-catcher, so the grinds don't end up everywhere like the picture above. After reading so many threads about this clump vs static, seems to me that there's no real remedy. One is inversely proportional to the other.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

DFK has mentioned that Compak do a clump crusher for the E8.

I have sent them an email asking if they can send me one

Aaron


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

aaroncornish said:


> DFK has mentioned that Compak do a clump crusher for the E8.
> 
> I have sent them an email asking if they can send me one
> 
> Aaron


Looking at the design of the flap and how it's held in place you could probably fashion one yourself with a good old beer can, if you were to I'd probably make a three toothed 'M' shaped one.

Cut it to size by scoring around the original as a template, puncture a hole through for the hold screw and voila! Clump crusher!


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## DC63 (Jan 16, 2011)

Ive just done my curtain on me E8 was wonky and chucking coffee out to right hand side, all good now


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Compak have sent me a chute, which is longer and supposed to put the coffee bang in the middle of the basket. Not had time to fit it yet.

Apparently they are working on a better curtain design. Fingers crossed.


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## benbaldwin (Dec 30, 2011)

@aaroncornish - any update on your 'clumps'? I picked up my E8 last night and when the grind is too coarse it sprays everywhere, then when it's near dialled in it starts clumping









Really love the speed it grinds but the consistency is confusing me for a grinder of this price level.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey @benbaldwin - not much good news to report really.

I have been trying various things and still struggling.

The best results have been from removing the dosing curtain from the chute completely. This results in tonnes of static though with some beans.

Currently I am grinding into a milk jug, breaking all the clumps and then dosing the coffee into the portafilter.

This has resulted in MUCH better extractions.

It is far from ideal though given the grinder should be able to do this.

Compak have sent me new dosing curtains (no help) and a new chute, this has been useful, as it is slightly longer than the previous chute and puts the coffee bang in the middle of the basket. The old chute tended to put the coffee nearer the front of the basket.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

aaroncornish said:


> It is far from ideal though given the grinder should be able to do this.


Not being funny, but why should it? If it delivers grinds for good extractions, what more do you expect, given you have no doser to break up clumps & different coffees, roasts & grind settings will affect clumping differently.

If you grind into the PF, you'll want to confirm dose on scales, so starting with the PF on scales & adding grinds from a jug/cup isn't really any more work.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Not being funny, but why should it? If it delivers grinds for good extractions, what more do you expect, given you have no doser to break up clumps & different coffees, roasts & grind settings will affect clumping differently.
> 
> If you grind into the PF, you'll want to confirm dose on scales, so starting with the PF on scales & adding grinds from a jug/cup isn't really any more work.


Stop being reasonable!









I suppose it is not any more work really is it. And the results of dosing into a container have been very good and justify the extra work.

Aaron


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The price of grinders like this carries a certain expectation. You would hope to be able to dose straight into the pf and just tamp without too much faff


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I would have thought, that the salient point, was if every E8 does not do this, why does Aaron's?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I would have thought, that the salient point, was if every E8 does not do this, why does Aaron's?


I refused a dire coffee when I purchased an overpriced sausage baguette from an Upper Crust in a northern train station, they hexed me!


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