# For the love of god end my indecision!



## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

Hi yet another annoying newbie. I know hardly anything about coffee (always hated the burnt taste of starbucks etc) but after going to Naples I've really got into rich espresso and because I have no decent places nearby in Lancashire I'm keen to get a grinder and machine for home use. For the grinder I am thinking mahlkonig vario as I would like to use it for French press as well but I'm really struggling with which machine to buy, I originally thought a silvia may be ok but put off by the fact it is inconsistent with temp and I am put off by the thought of having to install a pid as I am pretty useless at diy etc. I want a machine that will produce consistently good espresso (I will only make a cappuccino if a guest wants one but won't be making for numerous people) that will be reliable and most importantly gives me rich complex coffee, I'm ignorant about this subject so not impressed really about brand names but heard good things about rocket cellini (I know this is a fav of the seattle coffee gear you tube posting) and francino so which machine would be best for me? my top budget is a grand (seen the cellini at £969) but that is absolutely top whack and if I can get one cheaper that would be great as looking at good value and a good taste as I said rather than status so open minded. Any suggestions? thanks in advance Ian


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

1k for the machine? The lever boys may suggest a Londonium l1 is over a grand though.

The rocket is a good shot shout, I have a nuova simonelli musica which can be found at a whisker over 1k.

Seattle coffee gear tested it against a rocket if you value their opinion.

You have plenty of choice with your budget, plenty of advice on here. Take your time and make sure you get what's right for you.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

With a Fracino being a few hundred pounds cheaper - it gives you plenty of bang for your bucks. But if it's top notch build and style, then it's the Rocket. Really, you need to see the machines in the flesh before you part with your dosh as when you've handed it over, you will have to live with your choice. A trip to Bella Barista in Northampton whilst being a trek will allow you to test out various machines side by side and is a really sensible thing to do. Don't think they stock Fracino though. As for the Vario as your grinder - may need to think about that if going for something like the Rocket in order to get the best out of it. Good thing with grinders is they are fairly plentiful second hand and this is a good way of not compromising on quality whilst keeping within budget.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

thanks for the (very!) quick reply! the thing I'm most interested in is ultimately is the taste as I only drink straight shots, would I notice a big difference between the francino cherub and a rocket cellini? and if I the vario isn't up to standard for these machines which would you recommend? (notice you have a vario) p.s is there anywhere near you good for coffee? I live in Chorley but not found anywhere local ish apart from exchange coffee in clitheroe/Blackburn.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Welcome

Hi there Mr Chorley ? Id be happy to entertain you and show off my coffee stuff and make you a drink ! Might make you double your budget for an l1.......

Lancaster here

Cheers


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

thanks for the quick reply Geordie I'll check out the nuova simonelli musica it's not one I'm familiar with (as I said I know next to nowt!) I don't think I would go down the lever route as like the idea of consistency and prob take a while to get the knack of it. Have compared your machines espresso to a rocket / rancillio cherub? I'm interested as like I said the most import thing for me is the taste as I'm the only coffee drinker so it prob be used twice a day.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Welcome
> 
> Hi there Mr Chorley ? Id be happy to entertain you and show off my coffee stuff and make you a drink ! Might make you double your budget for an l1.......
> 
> ...


How far is Chorley from Lancaster, 'cos it would be worth trying an L1? BTW: with a decent "Spring" Lever machine like the Londinium, consistency is built in.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

And if it outside your budget what about a Gaggia Achille , Although i dont have one here sorry .

By next week i may have , fingers crossed a couple of grinders here than the OP could have a play with .

At least then would see what ex commercials are capable of.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

wow! I can't believe the help I'm getting !I live an hour away from you just had a look at your machine online looks beautiful but wayyyy out of budget for me (being honest a grand is a huge amount for me and really really stretching it as I need a good grinder too so thinking about 1400 all in but ideally less) cheers tho!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

ianskelly said:


> thanks for the quick reply Geordie I'll check out the nuova simonelli musica it's not one I'm familiar with (as I said I know next to nowt!) I don't think I would go down the lever route as like the idea of consistency and prob take a while to get the knack of it. Have compared your machines espresso to a rocket / rancillio cherub? I'm interested as like I said the most import thing for me is the taste as I'm the only coffee drinker so it prob be used twice a day.


I have comparison with a nuova simonelli Oscar a cherub, an s1 la spaziale, also a sanremo Verona (commercial machine) I can say the musica compares more than favourably to all. This however is my opinion and I am biased toward my own machine as the shots are how I like them.

For just espresso though levers are top notch have a play on boots machine. With every machine you have to learn your craft and even then my musica is different to other musicas.

Take advice on board here, have a look around, where possible have a play on machines. Once you've decided then get your machine, however seriously consider spending a good chunk on a grinder. Especially if you get a rocket etc.

Think of the grinder as the most essential part, a good grinder can make most machines sing.

If it were me, with 1k I'd go for used cherub or Oscar price range and then you'll have iro 50% to spend on a used grinder. As for grinders coffeechap is your man.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ianskelly said:


> wow! I can't believe the help I'm getting !I live an hour away from you just had a look at your machine online looks beautiful but wayyyy out of budget for me (being honest a grand is a huge amount for me and really really stretching it as I need a good grinder too so thinking about 1400 all in but ideally less) cheers tho!


No matter , if you are ever in the area drop me a pm , happy to make you a drink no matter what machine you may buy.

Lancaster also has a great roaster ( Atkinsons ) and a cafe the Hall which delivers great espresso from a restored Italian lever.

By way of machine , anyone mentioned the brewtus yet?


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

cheers, thought i'd done my research re grinders but the m. vario is obviously not that well thought of so i'll get back to the drawing board (I've prob been influenced too much by us sites ahh well I'm here to learn !!)


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

nope i'll give that a google too!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ianskelly said:


> cheers, thought i'd done my research re grinders but the m. vario is obviously not that well thought of so i'll get back to the drawing board (I've prob been influenced too much by us sites ahh well I'm here to learn !!)


Its not that it not a well thought of grinder , its just that there are bigger and better things and better value if you dip your toe into the ex commercial market .

The expobar dual lever ( brewtus ) is worth considering if you can stretch to £1400 as a budget.


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## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Its not that it not a well thought of grinder , its just that there are bigger and better things and better value if you dip your toe into the ex commercial market .
> 
> The expobar dual lever ( brewtus ) is worth considering if you can stretch to £1400 as a budget.


With the £1000 budget wouldn't that just about push him into territory for the Brewtus group buy? Shame I wasn't aware of it a month or so ago I might have gone for that rather than the Musica.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

nope more googleing for me! thanks for your help again


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

sjenner said:


> How far is Chorley from Lancaster, 'cos it would be worth trying an L1? BTW: with a decent "Spring" Lever machine like the Londinium, consistency is built in.


If you can't make it to Lancaster before the snow cuts Boots off for the next five months, I'm in Preston and would be happy to show you LI


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

ianskelly said:


> (notice you have a vario) p.s is there anywhere near you good for coffee? I live in Chorley but not found anywhere local ish apart from exchange coffee in clitheroe/Blackburn.


Bought the Vario to partner a Silvia. It's a goodish grinder but not cheap at £350 and doesn't come across as being all that robust. Mine blew the main powerboard inside six months so I took it apart - definitely the best way to see how something is built. For sheer bullet proofness, it's nowhere near in the league of something like a Mazzer. I've converted my Vario from ceramic to steel burrs and use it for only grinding for pour over.

Don't be fooled into thinking a grinder and especially something like the Vario is happy being shifted from fine to coarse grind and back again on a regular basis. It just isn't. I am also not a fan of ceramic burrs. They may keep their sharpness longer that steel but I think they crush rather than cut beans during the grind which is not as good IMO.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

cheers for the heads up re the vario, do you know any good coffee shops in the preston area? or Manchester?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Preston - no . Manchester a few - northern tea power gets good feedback on here . There's re a couple of Mancs on here will jump in and recommend a few more .


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## lacremeanglaise (Oct 29, 2013)

ianskelly said:


> cheers for the heads up re the vario, do you know any good coffee shops in the preston area? or Manchester?


I travel a lot for work and when not on home turf I tend to rely on this blog to find decent coffee... read the reviews though to avoid disappointment!









http://www.cosycoffeeshops.co.uk/


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi Ian nice to see someone else from Chorley here on the forum, welcome.

If you would like to see what you can actually do on a budget and see a commercial grinder made kitchen friendly, also at some point after Nov 6th I will have one the Sage Dual Boiler machines here to review, you're more than welcome to pop round some time , just drop me a pm. It's well worth taking Systemic Kid or Mr Boots up on their offers as the L1 produces amazing shots and is smaller than you would think from the photos. As others have said think grinder before machine, spend the money wisely on a used commercial grinder and it will be far far better than a Vario, and maybe even get a hand grinder or a cheaper electric for brewed coffee(depending how often you make brewed). You also need to allow money in your budget for a decent tamper and other accessories.

The best coffee in easy distance from Chorley is Roberts and Co who's roastery and cafe is based at Cedar Farm in Mawdsley, they make a decent cup of coffee and have a nice selection of fresh roasted beans that includes a napoli style blend. In Chorley itself the best coffee you will find is at Coffee Club on the corner of Chapel St and market St, Peter the owner is a member here and took it over earlier this year, he had all his staff properly trained at Limini over in Bradford and uses one of the Limini blends as their house espresso.


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## ianskelly (Oct 31, 2013)

cheers not heard of the one in mawdsley but stupidly walked passed the coffee club a million times not knowing it had changed hands i'll be dropping in soon. do they sell bagged coffee? I've bought from exchange in clitheroe a few times and they were great but its a bit of a trek, ive also tried a couple of the booths fresh ones but not found anything amazing but I do like there revolution beans


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yep the beans I've had from booths in am emergency have been under whelming to say the least . Try the roasters Charlie suggested , atkinsons in Lancaster too ( online available ). Forum favourites include Rave, Has Bean, to name two


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm not sure if Ian at Coffee Club sells beans I know he has offered to get me some whenever he puts an order in but currently got so much coffee in I need to get drinking it faster lol. I've bought Booths beans in an emergency but that was before they started to stock Union and Grumpy Mule. Exchange also have a shop in Blackburn near the Cathedral, I just found their house blend in the Clitheroe shop totally underwhelming after having looked through their bean selection and buying quite a few I was excited to see the la Marzocco FB70 and K30 grinder but the coffee when it arrived wasn't very nice as they use a french roast blend, but the beans I bought were all very nice. My current favourites available locally rather than going to Atkinsons are Roberts' Australian Skybury and their Rwanda Inozvu, but I've been mainly getting my coffee from Rave and the monthly DSOL offerings.

The good thing about a trip to Roberts is the OH pleasing bits of arts and craft stuff and a couple of dress shops, they also have a farmers market there some weekends and a vintage one on others.


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