# Can't grind fine enough to slow has bean coffee.



## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

Having a bit of a weird issue, mostly with has bean as an espresso.

I have a mahlkonig vario grinder and a rancillio silvia espresso machine.

Over the past few months I've had to move the vario to nearly 1C (almost the tightest setting) to get the extraction to go over 20 seconds (tamping at a consistently strong rate) and i've had to up the dose to 20g of coffee. This gives me no flexibility to adjust the grind to change the flavours.

This only seems to be an issue with has bean beans. If i use darker roasts (either rave or the local espresso blend) i can reign the grinder right back and use about 18g.

It didn't used to be like this. I've cleaned the grinder and it's made no difference. The grinder is only a year or so old and has maybe made 2-3 espresso's a day so the burrs should be fine.

So, Where is the problem? Grinder, Machine or VST 18g basket?


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Has bean beans, stick to darker roasts... (runs for the exit)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Nothing wrong with the beans. Its likely the grinder , have you calibrated it ?


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Nothing wrong with the beans. Its likely the grinder , have you calibrated it ?


The model i have doesnt appear to have a hole for adjustment of the burrs. like the older models.


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

Actually after closer inspection it appears that mahlkonig didnt want you to adjust your own calibration as there was a sticker stating warranty void if removed over the hole. I've adjusted it now and will give it a go.


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Nothing wrong with the beans. Its likely the grinder , have you calibrated it ?


I remember telling Steve in an email exchange that when I buy coffee I expect a good drink, not a good challenge.

And that was the last time I bought HB coffee.

You are right, nothing wrong with the beans. As for the roasting, I'm afraid it is a matter of opinions.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What were your particular challenges, wando?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Nothing wrong with the roasting either.

The Vario has issues though, one of which is as OP describes. Recaliberation should fix it, but it does seem to happen periodically. I'm on 1C also at the moment with a HasBean Nicaraguan for a 35 sec extraction.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Wando64 said:


> I remember telling Steve in an email exchange that when I buy coffee I expect a good drink, not a good challenge.
> 
> And that was the last time I bought HB coffee.
> 
> You are right, nothing wrong with the beans. As for the roasting, I'm afraid it is a matter of opinions.


I had some hasbean espresso perfitto recently, i had absolutely no problems with it at all, sensible doses in, sensible extractions out. The challenge is sometimes in the cup on some of the more outrageous blends, but the single origins tend to be generally very easy to work with in my experience.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Wando64 said:


> I remember telling Steve in an email exchange that when I buy coffee I expect a good drink, not a good challenge.
> 
> And that was the last time I bought HB coffee.
> 
> You are right, nothing wrong with the beans. As for the roasting, I'm afraid it is a matter of opinions.


Ouch!

13 has beans.


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2014)

I do kind of agree with the Has Bean thing. The last really really good one that I had was finca la fanny - that said, I had that with my old machine which had a pressurized basket and was a lot easier to use. Ever since I got the gaggia classic i've found that all of the has bean coffees are quite similar tasting (i know they are not) but that's my point, it's hard to get them to taste right i think, and i'm struggling to get an awful lot out of them. It's probably a grinder issue, but like some have suggested above, it doesn't happen with beans from Rave for example.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Noah&theBean said:


> I do kind of agree with the Has Bean thing. The last really really good one that I had was finca la fanny - that said, I had that with my old machine which had a pressurized basket and was a lot easier to use. Ever since I got the gaggia classic i've found that all of the has bean coffees are quite similar tasting (i know they are not) but that's my point, it's hard to get them to taste right i think, and i'm struggling to get an awful lot out of them. It's probably a grinder issue, but like some have suggested above, it doesn't happen with beans from Rave for example.


Again IF your grinding any beans from any roaster three times through ,as per your previous posts ,to get it fine enough for espresso then your not doing it justice ,and I would qualify that before posting any opinion on any roasters beans ...

Yes it's a grinder issue

Yes it's a barista issue


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> What were your particular challenges, wando?


It was a particular single origin (can't remember the name) and i just could not get rid of the sourness.

My very limited skills and equipment just hit a wall on this occasion.

I am willing to accept that other will not have found the same coffee as challenging as I did, but that does not change the point I am making. Some of HB roasts were just too light for my abilities and tastes.

All of this was approx 2 years ago or longer so things might have changed with either HB or my skills, however I find darker roasts extremely satisfying and very easy to get the best out of them.

I am drinking great coffee with none of the pain. Happy days.

EDIT: the reason to entered an email exchange with Steve about it is because IMO it was roasted so light that it could have been a mistake. Apparently it was not.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I think the problem with some lighter roasts is that they require you to have some control over your brew temp to get the most out of them. On the gaggia I'd cheat the brew temp by flicking on the steam switch for 3-4 seconds before brewing.

On the cherub I just upped the pressure stat to get a higher heat exchanger temp.

In my experience, the has bean stuff needs quite a decent temp through it to take the sour edge away


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2014)

shrink said:


> I think the problem with some lighter roasts is that they require you to have some control over your brew temp to get the most out of them. *On the gaggia I'd cheat the brew temp by flicking on the steam switch for 3-4 seconds before brewing.*
> 
> On the cherub I just upped the pressure stat to get a higher heat exchanger temp.
> 
> In my experience, the has bean stuff needs quite a decent temp through it to take the sour edge away


what does this do?


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Again IF your grinding any beans from any roaster three times through ,as per your previous posts ,to get it fine enough for espresso then your not doing it justice ,and I would qualify that before posting any opinion on any roasters beans ...
> 
> Yes it's a grinder issue
> 
> *Yes it's a barista issue*


Who are you calling a barista? Jokes aside, it's definitely not. I think the machine has got something wrong with it - going to take it apart and see if the capacitors are working.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> Who are you calling a barista? Jokes aside, it's definitely not. I think the machine has got something wrong with it - going to take it apart and see if the capacitors are working.


Groan Feel a whole new thread coming on!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> what does this do?


On the little gaggias if you flick on the steam switch, it kicks in the element that tries to bring the little boiler up to steam pressure. If you do it for only a few seconds, it just raises the water temp by a few degrees above the norm. Good if you need to run a shot a bit hotter. Likewise flushing some water out of the little boiler was good for dropping the temp a little.

Ultimately all this temp surfing nonsense was what put me off small single boiler machines.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Noah&theBean said:


> Who are you calling a barista? Jokes aside, it's definitely not. I think the machine has got something wrong with it - going to take it apart and see if the capacitors are working.


Joking aside , having read alot of your posts previously, around your coffee making technique , i would suggest

YES IT IS A OPERATOR ISSUE ( your right your not a barista )

but some people listen and take advise from other members and learn improve

Some don't


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> Who are you calling a barista? Jokes aside, it's definitely not. I think the machine has got something wrong with it - going to take it apart and see if the capacitors are working.


Good luck with that, I have no idea why you think capacitors would have anything to do with it, seems you have as much idea about electronics as you do bricklaying.

  epicfacepalm by charliejeal, on Flickr


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## chinery (Apr 14, 2014)

As another Vario owner I will also chime in and say that I have had to bust out the Allen key and tighten up the grind several times. I'm always afraid I'll go too far and break something, so quite often I end up using the finest setting 1A. I don't think I have been below 1C for a while.


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## leoc (Apr 24, 2014)

Wando64 said:


> however I find darker roasts extremely satisfying and very easy to get the best out of them.
> 
> I am drinking great coffee with none of the pain. Happy days.


Hi Wando, I'm also a fan of the darker roasts, do you have any recommendations please?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

chinery said:


> As another Vario owner I will also chime in and say that I have had to bust out the Allen key and tighten up the grind several times. I'm always afraid I'll go too far and break something, so quite often I end up using the finest setting 1A. I don't think I have been below 1C for a while.


There are plenty of clips on Youtube - just tighten slowly until the burrs start chirping which indicates contact and back of slightly - job done.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Wando64 said:


> I am willing to accept that other will not have found the same coffee as challenging as I did, but that does not change the point I am making. Some of HB roasts were just too light for my abilities and tastes.


If you recognise they're too light for your tastes that's fine, you need to try them to find out. If you prefer dark roasts though it's not really fair to give them shit for roasting light, that's what they do (most of the time)


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> Who are you calling a barista? Jokes aside, it's definitely not. I think the machine has got something wrong with it - going to take it apart and see if the capacitors are working.


You can make a few basic mods to the classic to get good results, the Rancillio steam wand is often discussed but another one would be to buy a flux capacitor and install it between the boiler and the brew switch instead of those pesky normal capacitors that always fail.

Adding a potentiometer to the setup will give you massive ranges to experiment with.

Flux capacitors are available on ebay and all good electronics stores.


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> If you recognise they're too light for your tastes that's fine, you need to try them to find out. If you prefer dark roasts though it's not really fair to give them shit for roasting light, that's what they do (most of the time)


To state that the lighter roast is probably the cause of the challenge faced by the OP is NOT giving shit to anyone.

As stated by the OP, if he uses darker roasts the problem does not exists.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Also take advantage of vst ( very silly threads ) technology.

Decreasing silly threads increases coffee yield and yummyness

I have a patent vst measuring decide I am willing to sell you to help with this

Please supply me many postal orders in da cash to secure


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Also take advantage of vst ( very silly threads ) technology.
> 
> Decreasing silly threads increases coffee yield and yummyness
> 
> ...


Can you please tell me what makes this thread silly in your opinion?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Wando64 said:


> To state that the lighter roast is probably the cause of the challenge faced by the OP is NOT giving shit to anyone.
> 
> As stated by the OP, if he uses darker roasts the problem does not exists.


Lighter roasts need a finer grind

The OP has what should be a capable grinder

It needs calibrated, that's not the bean's fault


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Wando64 said:


> Can you please tell me what makes this thread silly in your opinion?


Nothing in particular and wasn't aimed at anything you posted or this thread, more on the plethora of threads Noah seems to be posting off topic currently .

As I posted it seems unfair for Noah to comment of a beans suitability for a for espresso( dark or light ) when he is grinding it three times over in a grinder .


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Lighter roasts need a finer grind
> 
> The OP has what should be a capable grinder
> 
> It needs calibrated, that's not the bean's fault


Sure. We are actually saying the same thing.


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

leoc said:


> Hi Wando, I'm also a fan of the darker roasts, do you have any recommendations please?


Anything from Rave is excellent. There is a thread dedicated to them in the Beans forum.

I also used to enjoy coffee from the Coffee Bean Shop but I haven't purchased from them for quite a while.


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## Scotty (Mar 21, 2011)

It seems i've started a debate over roasting, something that i did not intend.

I have resolved the issue by adjusting the allen screw and can now grind at 2G and get a 27 second extraction with 18g of hasbean beans (30g yield).

What i dont understand is why the original vario came with the adjustment tool and the mahlkonig version tells you that you aren't allowed to adjust it or you'll void the warranty. If the burrs drift over time then you'll be constantly returning it to have them adjusted. Unless that's what they want.....


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## mym (Sep 15, 2009)

aaronb said:


> Nothing wrong with the roasting either.
> 
> The Vario has issues though, one of which is as OP describes. Recaliberation should fix it, but it does seem to happen periodically. I'm on 1C also at the moment with a HasBean Nicaraguan for a 35 sec extraction.


Interesting, my Vario - having been about right for espresso with all sorts of beans at about 3M-3P for the 6 months since it arrived - today needs to be at 1J or thereabouts to achieve the same extraction, with the same beans, as yesterday.

I'll read up on calibration I think...

<later></later>

Hmm, it starts to chirp at the right place. I'll leave it for a few days.


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

I've had this problem with this grinder too. It's definitely the calibration as mine gradually drifted to the point where I couldn't get any sort of decent shot. I was surprised as the grinder hadn't really had heavy use at all. Just using it for brewed at home for now and it's okay. Would like to get something better at home but an seem a bit pointless when there are so many fun toys at the roastery!


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

I've had this problem with this grinder too. It's definitely the calibration as mine gradually drifted to the point where I couldn't get any sort of decent shot. I was surprised as the grinder hadn't really had heavy use at all. Just using it for brewed at home for now and it's okay. Would like to get something better at home but an seem a bit pointless when there are so many fun toys at the roastery!


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