# Sage Barista Touch - Expensive Frustration



## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Ok, firstly, great to find this place in my hour of need.

My lovely girlfriend bought a Sage Barista Touch for the apartment the other day. Being the geek that I am, I have dove head first into trying to master it. Before I go too deep in to brew temperatures etc, I just want to make sure I have the basics right, so that I can tweak them to start. I should say I have read the sticky thread.

I'm using expensive beans from a very good local roastery called 3FE (I imagine any Irish members will know them). So this has been my process so far, which has resulted in either too little extracted or far too much. I should say the end goal is a flat white.

I grind to extract 18g and then tamp. I am checking my weight post grind using a scales (it doesn't do 0.1 and I will get one that does but I get 18g each time so it can't be out by too much), that part I have down.

I then tamp this, I imagine I have maybe been slightly firm here, but tbh I'm not to strongest guy in the world so again I can't imagine I am out by loads.

Then due to my mug size and scale size I weight the empty cup tare the scale to 0, brew the coffee in to the cup and compare to get my extracted weight. In terms of the brew I was using the built in double (30secs) but in order to keep consistency whilst changing other things I have set this a custom 28 seconds for now. I assume this is grand and doesn't make a big difference. I have not been running an empty brew through the machine & empty porta filter but will do so tomorrow.

I have been getting close to 78g extracted from my 18g using 28seconds. I then drove the grind size from 15 to 5 and got 18 extracted. I'm right in saying I'm best to just play around with the grind size until I get closer to 34/35g extracted? I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything major?

Being honest the major part of my frustration is that, firstly we can only drink so many cups and day (about 4 between us) so practice time is short. Secondly, I know I could get some cheap beans to practice and just not drink the result but that seems stupid as these are the beans I know I like (from drinking in store) so might swell get them right. I don't want to throwing 12.50 per 250g bag through the machine and then down the drain.

Thanks for any advice anyone may have, even to simply tell me I'm on the right albeit long road to perfection would put my current frustration to rest.


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Light at the end of the tunnel

We are getting close, but I have one question. I made a coffee this morning which actually tasted great but the volume extracted was too small. 18g in and 19g out. I know the reason however, liquid was only flowing out of one side of the portafilter, ergo had it been both sides I would have been close to nailing it. I've checked and there isn't a blockage or anything so would this suggest bad tamp or its it something else. As I say one side was flowing lovely and the other side was dripping?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

if its only one side youre getting channeling,

most times its down to puck prep,

when you grind, is it into a pot or the portafilter, as stiring the grinds with a cocktail stick to break then grinds, then tamping works wonders


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Hey!

Sorry to hear about your frustrations - starting is the most difficult bit, and it sounds as though you are doing all the right things.

As Cuprajake mentions, your puck is channelling. This is usually due to imperfect basket prep, and stirring to break up clumps is going to help. I would personally not restrict the water flow time to 28seconds, as sometimes after you let it run longer the shot can be quite drinkable, but cutting it off too soon can result in an under-extracted shot which can be very sour.

Keep going - you'll get there!


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> if its only one side youre getting channeling,
> 
> most times its down to puck prep,
> 
> when you grind, is it into a pot or the portafilter, as stiring the grinds with a cocktail stick to break then grinds, then tamping works wonders


 Oh interesting, I was just grinding in to the portafilter and then tamping. I will put the ground in a cup and give them a stir before putting back in to the portafilter and tamping. Thanks for the suggestion, I will try it with my late afternoon cup and report back.

I must say as bad as the early frustration is, when it starts to come right the pay off is huge.


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

_HH_ said:


> Hey!
> 
> Sorry to hear about your frustrations - starting is the most difficult bit, and it sounds as though you are doing all the right things.
> 
> ...


 Yeah I picked the time tbh just so I could keep that variable the same whilst I tried to get the grind right, unfortunately my current scales doesn't fit under the cup and then under the portafiler so can't stop based on weight, if you get me. A new scales is on route.


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

sdevine89 said:


> A new scales is on route.


 Nice - this will really help


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

you can buy a dosing funnel, or as i did with my sage, make a plastic one,

is yours the 54 or 58mm portafiler?


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> is yours the 54 or 58mm portafiler?


 It's a 54mm, I'll pick up a dosing tool for sure.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

well you can make shit one from a pot

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/34122-dosing-funnel-on-the-cheap/?do=embed


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Cuprajake said:


> well you can make shit one from a pot
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/34122-dosing-funnel-on-the-cheap/?do=embed


 That thread is fantastic!


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Great progress made with the afternoon cup. 18g in 26g out, with a much more balanced flow out of each side of the portafiler (I used the cocktail stick pre tamp). So I feel like I'm getting close. I'm going to go one step coarser tomorrow from 8 to 9 for my morning cup and keep the time at 27 seconds, and check the result. Then dependant on how that goes for my afternoon cup I'll going back to 8 on the grind and extend out a few seconds on the brew. Compare taste and yield.


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

sdevine89 said:


> Great progress made with the afternoon cup. 18g in 26g out, with a much more balanced flow out of each side of the portafiler (I used the cocktail stick pre tamp). So I feel like I'm getting close. I'm going to go one step coarser tomorrow from 8 to 9 for my morning cup and keep the time at 27 seconds, and check the result. Then dependant on how that goes for my afternoon cup I'll going back to 8 on the grind and extend out a few seconds on the brew. Compare taste and yield.


 After that and presuming I get closer to 1:2 ratio tomorrow, I'd like to increase the brew temperature slightly I think, It's on the cooler side of perfect for my taste.


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## crowlies (Sep 16, 2011)

I got one of these for Xmas and here is what I've done and I am getting really nice coffee from this now. Not surprisingly I noted that when close to a 2:1 ratio temp was critical. Turning it on from cold and just using it resulted in a far faster flow on the first shot compared to 3rd and onwards

I set up the grind to get about 18g, for me that's 18s. So I've set it up to do 9s, I remove it and lightly tamp then do another 9 secs and then tamp hard. My grind is set to level 6.

I run some water through the brew head and I heat everything else in very hot water, dry it carefully before use.

I have then set up a drink for 36s brew with water temp increased by 1. I measured it first of all to get around 36g out, but now I do it by eye given I use the same glass, I can pretty much tell and it takes around 28 to 32s with initial flow at 7s. Puck knocked out looks good, coffee looks great and some level of sweetness extracted.

I repeat this again into my coffee mug

I then purge the milk and heat at level 4 to 65c for a really rich with silky flat white...

Overall I'm impressed, though it takes some effort to get it right.

Get the basics right and then forget the scales, adjust incrementally for taste...


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

Well, I've nailed it. Two coffees today 18g in and 36g out on the button. Delighted.

increased the temp by a stop too. Thanks all the tips guys, now I'm sure they is something else I can fiddle with....


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## heartofwhite (Jan 11, 2021)

"I have then set up a drink for 36s brew with water temp increased by 1. I measured it first of all to get around 36g out, but now I do it by eye given I use the same glass, I can pretty much tell and it takes around 28 to 32s with initial flow at 7s"

Am I right in thinking that you have the brew time on the machine set to 36s, i.e. 7 seconds for initial flow and 29 seconds for extraction?


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## crowlies (Sep 16, 2011)

I used the flat white drink as the basis for saving my own, so the pre infusion is whatever that is set to. I set the overall be timer to 36s, just so it gave me a long enough time to measure 36g without it stopping. the first few I manually stopped at about 34g, which took between 28 and 32s I think. now I just look at the volume of liquid and know that it's OK in that sort or range. given I'm making a milk based drink it's not critical to me to get it exact....


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## heartofwhite (Jan 11, 2021)

sdevine89 said:


> Ok, firstly, great to find this place in my hour of need.
> 
> My lovely girlfriend bought a Sage Barista Touch for the apartment the other day. Being the geek that I am, I have dove head first into trying to master it. Before I go too deep in to brew temperatures etc, I just want to make sure I have the basics right, so that I can tweak them to start. I should say I have read the sticky thread.
> 
> ...


 As a fellow Irish member who has had a Touch for several months now and has a 3FE around the corner, my struggles with the perfect cup of coffee using their beans is on-going! I find it quite underwhelming, not due to the beans but my general ineptitude. As a regular purchaser of 3FE beans, could you spell out your current process for me?


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## heartofwhite (Jan 11, 2021)

crowlies said:


> I used the flat white drink as the basis for saving my own, so the pre infusion is whatever that is set to. I set the overall be timer to 36s, just so it gave me a long enough time to measure 36g without it stopping. the first few I manually stopped at about 34g, which took between 28 and 32s I think. now I just look at the volume of liquid and know that it's OK in that sort or range. given I'm making a milk based drink it's not critical to me to get it exact....


 Thanks for the quick response, much appreciated. I use the flat white also, will adjust the timer to 36 seconds and see how I get on! The differences in beans adds to the confusion I find.


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## crowlies (Sep 16, 2011)

Good luck! yeah I tend to use one supplier for my beans, i only change occasionally. I'm just an amateur at this really, had a couple of gaggias for many years that I modded, and was even using a magnifica bean to cup until recently and did manage to get a reasonable drink from that.... that said this is definitely a step up in terms of how smooth the coffee tastes.... the beans i use are from guggenheimer.de I buy 3kg at a time of their best quality beans... so better than super market, but I doubt they're as fresh as from a local supplier.


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

Have you thought about using the manual override on the Touch? If you weigh out the coffee, you can stop it at 36g.(or whatever you think is appropriate) I know it's a bit of a faff, but it gives a lot more control over the final result. Of course, you don't want that to happen in 10 seconds, but you can change the grind to get that right. One of the reasons that measuring out is a bit easier is that the flow rate for the coffee speeds up over time, so that quite a large. A difference of 26 to 29 seconds might not make a big difference to the taste in the cup for 2 coffees at 36g, but those last 3 seconds might add another 9g and you can taste the difference between 36g and 45g.

I'm an exile across the sea...might give 3FE a go next time I'm back over there...if this virus ever goes away.


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## crowlies (Sep 16, 2011)

that's what I did, I set it to 36s and use the override when it's at 36g. now I know roughly the amount by eye, I just press the override when it's about right. sorry if that wasn't clear.


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## sdevine89 (Jan 7, 2021)

heartofwhite said:


> As a fellow Irish member who has had a Touch for several months now and has a 3FE around the corner, my struggles with the perfect cup of coffee using their beans is on-going! I find it quite underwhelming, not due to the beans but my general ineptitude. As a regular purchaser of 3FE beans, could you spell out your current process for me?


 Ah class, well I can give you what I currently do which might get you close.

Momentum blend from 3FE. 18sec grind on 9. Brew for 27secs with the Temp at High 1. Then milk filled up to the bottom of the handle at 60 degrees with froth level of 4.


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