# V60 Help Please



## QueenOfCaffine (Dec 29, 2020)

I'm struggling to get a flavourful V60 cup.. looking for some expert help. Probably user error, but hit a wall now.

Grinder is Eureka Crono, Timore Black Mirror scales. Ceramic V60, Tabbed Japanese papers, Melitta Gooseneck kettle.

Initially fantastic cups, really flavourful and Black Cat's Yirgacheffe was outstanding.

Now tried 20-22g to 300ml pours, ground finer and finer and getting very little flavour. Have tried the 50ml bloom then two pours, tried the 100ml x 3 pours, tried stirring during bloom and leaving Undisturbed. Water at 93-95 degrees and finish around 3 minutes.

Using Crown & Canvas Honduras - Maria Genoveva and Black Cat Signature and getting very little, and nothing off the tasting notes .. there's fresh and open under a week. As I feel I was going mad, I got some (don't judge me) Waitrose house blend coffee and using the same methods almost blew my head off! Realise these are dark, oily heavily roasted beans. But have had signature before and it was super flavourful.

I have some congestion at the moment, Eustascean Tube blocked.. could this be killing the taste/nuances?

Getting a bit down with this...


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## QueenOfCaffine (Dec 29, 2020)

I've also calibrated my scales... and checked retention on the grinder. Also had a COVID test (doctors recommendation), came back thankfully negative.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

I think it's due to the congestion. Grind a bit and give it a smell - if you're not smelling it you probably won't taste it.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

The congestion is obviously an issue that is not helping. Do you have someone else who can sample with you? I don't know how much effort I would spend on experimenting with that condition. Especially using dark roast one day and light the next.

You say you initially got very good brews, but then changed up things? Have you tried reverting to where you got the good results? There are lots of V60 tips in this topic: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/28191-v60-recipes/page/21/#comments

For a long time I've been using a method Mark (MWJB) suggested and once I found the grind range that gave the best results, it's been quite consistent. I sometimes change grind a few clicks if the taste suggests it's necessary. You can also change the extraction by altering the number of pours and amounts.



15/240 (or 15/250), light roast of various origin


Water straight off boil.

Bloom: 30g and stir with spoon



00:30: 35g up to 65g


00:50: 35g up to 100g


01:10: 35g up to 135g


01:30: 35g up to 170g


01:50: 35g up to 205g


02:10: 35g up to 240g, gently swirl V60 after



Dry bed usually around 3:00 to 3:30.


Let it sit another 30-40 seconds.


A thing to keep in mind when you try different recipes is that they usually have to match your grind size, and just picking a random recipe means you don't really know what grind setting you should be using. And be careful with trying a recipe and jumping to the next. You at least need to try different grind sizes for a recipe, and preferably a few brews with each setting. Small things can skew the extraction up and down when you brew, and a single brew is not necessarily a good indication of the recipe and grind size combination.

I have been experimenting across a pretty large range of grind settings with my Comandante grinder and what I noticed was that it was very helpful to stick with one grind for some time. I started out at 27-30, went down to 25, 20 and up again to 24. 24 +/- 2 seems like a good spot with this recipe for my grinder. When I started using 24, I noticed after some months that the overall quality of the brews was better than before. The worst might not have been as good as the best from 20 or 27, but the overall quality was certainly better.

These days I use a Wilfa Uniform grinder and I usually make moka (14 setting) and V60 (20 setting) every day. The other day I forgot to change the grinder setting back to V60, so I ended up with coffee ground for moka (finer) when I was planning to make V60. I only discovered this as I started pouring, so I had to change something on the fly. Finer means more exctraction, so I needed to shorten the brew time. I deviated from my usual recipe and ended up pouring the remaining water in one go after the bloom. Not at a very fast rate, but trying to keep it at a steady stream without hosing too much. I got a dry bed a bit over 2 minutes I think, and the cup was actually quite good. Not as good as my usual recipe, a little bit more bitterness, but fairly well extracted and balanced. It's a bit of a personal preference how fine grind you prefer, when a brew is well extracted of course. The taste profile will change and some prefer it finer, some coarser. The important thing is to keep it evenly extracted and balanced for whatever grind setting you use. If it doesn't taste good, it's not a good brew.

When your senses are back to normal, I suggest experimenting within a smaller range and not change too much at once. Stick with a recipe and try various grind sizes around where you expect it to be good, and give it 10 brews on each grind size. Make notes to more easily keep track of where you are. I still find it difficult to give a cup a rating of 1-10, but the more I do it, the easier it becomes.


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## QueenOfCaffine (Dec 29, 2020)

Zephyp said:


> The congestion is obviously an issue that is not helping. Do you have someone else who can sample with you? I don't know how much effort I would spend on experimenting with that condition. Especially using dark roast one day and light the next.
> You say you initially got very good brews, but then changed up things? Have you tried reverting to where you got the good results? There are lots of V60 tips in this topic: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/28191-v60-recipes/page/21/#comments
> 
> For a long time I've been using a method Mark (MWJB) suggested and once I found the grind range that gave the best results, it's been quite consistent. I sometimes change grind a few clicks if the taste suggests it's necessary. You can also change the extraction by altering the number of pours and amounts.
> ...


Thank you so much, this is incredibly helpful. Congestion easing very slowly and partner is happy drinking instant or pod coffee, therefore nuances are not the strong point.

I have since this post kept my recipe, but have dialled in the find and it's getting better... I'm close. Going to try the above method in the morning and genuinely appreciate the guidance.

Love coffee, only guilty pleasure I have.


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## manzyuk (Feb 8, 2021)

@Zephyp Thanks for the suggested grind setting for Comandante with @MWJB's V60 recipe! I've been using 24 clicks for my last 10 brews or so and the results have been pretty good (scored at least 7/9). I'm curious if you use 02 or 01 size V60 brewer. I switched to 01 from 02 yesterday to decrease the drop from the kettle spout, and, all things being equal, the brew times of my last 4 cups were 15-20 seconds shorter (previously 3:10-3:15 with three different coffees, now around 2:50-2:55). Has anyone else observed that they needed slightly different grind setting when using exactly the same recipe with a brewer of a different size?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Because of the lower drop, you might be able to get away with a slightly finer grind as you won't be kicking up as much silt.


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## manzyuk (Feb 8, 2021)

I brewed two cups in a row to taste side by side, one at 23 clicks and one at 22. I think I was quite consistent with the pulses. The cups finished brewing at 2:55 and 2:57 respectively. I liked the former (in fact, scored it higher than the cup I brewed yesterday at 24 clicks, 2:47 brew time) but found the latter surprisingly harsh. Maybe my technique wasn't consistent after all and I got unlucky the second time, but I think I will ignore the brew time for now and stay at 24 clicks (and continue collecting score data).


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

manzyuk said:


> @Zephyp Thanks for the suggested grind setting for Comandante with @MWJB's V60 recipe! I've been using 24 clicks for my last 10 brews or so and the results have been pretty good (scored at least 7/9). I'm curious if you use 02 or 01 size V60 brewer. I switched to 01 from 02 yesterday to decrease the drop from the kettle spout, and, all things being equal, the brew times of my last 4 cups were 15-20 seconds shorter (previously 3:10-3:15 with three different coffees, now around 2:50-2:55). Has anyone else observed that they needed slightly different grind setting when using exactly the same recipe with a brewer of a different size?


 I use the 01. I do have an 02 too, but it's not used much so I haven't compared it to the 01, but the point Mark made is a reasonable explanation. If the contact time is consistently shorter with the 02, you may have to change grind size accordingly to compensate.


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