# Adjusting Dull/Flat Brews based on Taste



## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

Hi all,

I am wondering how you guys adjust your brews based on taste.

I am aware of Barista Hustle's Coffee Compass: https://baristahustle.com/blogs/barista-hustle/the-coffee-compass

I have trouble when a coffee is tasting flat almost flavourless.

Both the descriptors "dull" and "empty" are on opposite sides of the compass.

How do you guys adjust brews when the coffee just tastes flat?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Flavourless suggests under-extraction. Grind finer & or brew longer.

What method, weights & times are you using at the moment?


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

I usually brew with the kalita #185. The typical dose is 20 grams coffee to 320-340 ml water. The coffee was ground at 2.4 on a brand new Feldgrind.

The method I've been using is

1. Once kettle is just off the boil bloom with 60 ml water and stir immediately with mini whisk to saturate the grounds.

2. At 0:40 start pouring with one continuous pour finishing by 1:30 in concentric circles.

3. Swirl/rao spin the kalita then tap lightly against the mug to settle the grounds.

4. Full drawn down is at around 3:00.



MWJB said:


> Flavourless suggests under-extraction. Grind finer & or brew longer.
> 
> What method, weights & times are you using tat the moment?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

20ml difference in water from brew to brew needs to be fixed. That equates maybe 25-30g difference in the cup, you want more like a fifth of that.

Your brew times are on the short side, maybe aim nearer to 4:00, leave the brewer in place for 40sec or so after seeing dry bed.

I find it easier to be consistent with pours by breaking them down, rather than pouring in a constant stream. I do a bloom then 3 pours with my 185 (try 100g every 50sec after bloom). I maybe wouldn't pour in continuous spirals, the bed is relatively shallow & too much agitation might be forcing silt through the paper (flattens flavour). Start with spirals & end with a spiral & swirl, but keep an eye on clarity & maybe pour some straight down the middle if brew is getting more opaque.

If spacing the pours alone doesn't extend brew time enough, go a little finer.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

Hey MWJB, thanks for the advice! Much appreciated









I should have mentioned the 20 ml difference varies between the coffee and I keep it fixed unless deliberately changing it.

Would you mind explaining why it is better to split the pour up? Every shop in Edinburgh I visit do their pours differently. I like to know the reasoning behind things









When you say pour in a spiral do you mean like in this picture? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jL6pE7P5ves/U8afXeKIrjI/AAAAAAAAAJI/SHj9W62l7f8/s1600/spiral.gif

So you start in the centre and pour outwards?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'm not necessarily saying that it is 'better' to split the pour up (the Wave seems fairly flexible in this respect, I would definitely break up a V60 pour though), I'm more saying that I find it easier to be consistent with smaller measured & timed pours (what you gain on the swings you can lose on the roundabouts....whereas if you are too slow with a long single pour, your brew will run over time?). For smaller 185 brews, I do also bloom then add all the brew water quickly in one go (you probably can't add it all in one go with 330ml and a 185 though).

The number of pours in themselves are not particularly important, but they do interlock with grind size. So, for a 'bloom & all in quickly' brew I would use a finer grind setting than for 'bloom & 3 equally spaced & timed pours'. In both cases I am looking for a broadly similar overall brew time, you add the water in smaller (lighter) pulses so that the coarser grind bed holds the liquid back for longer to normalise brew time.

I suggested 3 pours to you because it looks like your grind is too coarse for your current method & because it's easy to divide up...and, if I'm honest, it just happens to be what I am doing at the moment & works without changing my grind setting from V60 with 6 pours  You could, if you wanted, grind finer & use 1 pour...but it might be easier to make smaller adjustments with the grinder & when happy with the result, tweak bit by bit?

When happy with a time, grind setting & method, stick with it for a bit to see how it affects different coffees, as some will brew quicker than others & it'll be trickier to work out a datum setting using just one coffee. Once you have a setting & method down, it shouldn't need a lot of constant adjustment assuming similar roast levels, just a tweak here & there for unusually soluble coffees?

Yes, that's the kind of spiral I have in mind, start in the middle & work out.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

20g to 320-340g and 2.4 on Feldgrind, which is I think would be on the finer end for a Kalita, sounds like you should hit good extraction. You can try slowing down the pour, and make sure the pour is very gentle, with minimal agitation of the bed. Also make sure you're using a good water for coffee brewing, hard water can also flatten flavour.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

Hey guys.

This morning I tried implementing the advice you guys have given with a newish bag from Hasbean. A red honey processed Costa Rican red bourbon. I live in Edinburgh which has soft water and most shops I've spoken to say its good for brewing.

I did a ratio of 60 g per litre so 20.4 grams of coffee to 340 ml of water which was ground with 2.4 on the feldgrind. Here is a picture of the grounds for reference: Grounds

The recipe was

1. Bloom with 60 ml and stir.

2. At 0:40 add 140 ml then swirl kalita and tap.

3. At 1:30 add 140 ml then swirl kalita and tap.

4. Draw down was at 3:55 and I left the kalita on for another 40 seconds.

Here are some pictures of inside the kalita: Pics. Top left is dry, top right is after bloom and stir, bottom left is after final pour and bottom right is after draw down.

Taste wise I thought the brew was a better extraction although maybe a bit too much. There were flavours of brown sugar, biscuits and a bit of orange zest, not much acidity. Next I think I'll try coarsening the grind a bit.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You seem to have a lot of grounds stuck up the side of the filter paper. I don't think you need to swirl & tap at every pour, just after the last pour.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

MWJB said:


> You seem to have a lot of grounds stuck up the side of the filter paper. I don't think you need to swirl & tap at every pour, just after the last pour.


Yeah I know and I don't like it at all. It seems to be occurring with this new Feldgrind I am using. My old one (given to a friend) did not produce such sludgy grinds on simitation settings. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Assuming the grinder is working as intended (maybe take the catch cup off & watch in inner burr as you rotate the shaft, looking for a large runout/wobble - a little wobble is not a problem) go coarser to reduce fines.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

The grind does look very fine and indeed and there are clumps which shouldn't really happen with a coarse grind. I can take a pic of my typical grind size of Kalita tomorrow, but it looks a lot coarser than that, roughly like granulated sugar. Maybe try something like 2.10-2.12 on the Feldgrind?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I think generally MWJB advice is going to make more sense than mine, but I'll add that if you're wondering if it's over extracting you could consider skipping the whisking stage? I haven't heard of too many people doing that with a kalita


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Here is a typical grind size I use, 2.4 on Kinu M47 before and after. 15g coffee/250g water, 30sec bloom and then one slow continuous pour, with the last drop at 1:40. The water drained completely at 4:00, but the last bit took about a minute, which happens sometimes, usually it ends around 3:00. TDS was 1.28, so I would actually grind one or two notches finer next time. Coffee wasn't lacking sweetness, but slightly on the thinner side.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5519956/File%2028-02-2017%2C%2010%2023%2034.jpeg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5519956/File%2028-02-2017%2C%2010%2023%2055.jpeg


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

Hey guys,

Thanks to you all for your advice and suggestions. Basically, going with a coarser grind and less aggressive pouring has been producing much more balanced cups. It seems obvious in hindsight. It was great to get other people's advice. The journey of learning to brew better and figuring out each coffee is part of the enjoyment of coffee for me


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