# Help! I'm struggling with extraction!



## Morgan John (Mar 31, 2021)

Hi,

I've had my Barista Touch for about a week and I'm struggling to get a good extraction. Any tips are welcome as whatever I try, I would still say I'm under extracting.



*Drink* - Espresso & Long Black/Americano


*Beans* - Currently using Taylors Lazy Sunday, well within a used by date. I previously tried with Starbucks blonde roast, again within the use by date


*Grind level *- I've tried it on 1 and 30 with the same results


*Internal Brim *- I saw someone talking about this so I've change it from 6 to 3 (I've not tested lower yet)


*Grind time *- I usually have it around 5 seconds irrespective of grind as otherwise I can't tamp properly


*Weight* - I'm seeing about 8-10g for a single and then around 18g for a double


*Filter* - Same result on a single or double


*Tamp* - I'm pushing as much as I can and seem to get it down to the right level


*Brew* - Starts after about 3-4 seconds which teh guide suggests is under extraction therefore try a finer grind (even when I'm on grind level 1)


*Flow* - Seems to be more like water than honey if thats the aim


*Crema* - Blink and you've missed it


*Puck* - Comes out wet and sometimes even stays inside


*Taste* - Watery but not burnt/overly bitter


Any suggestions of where I'm going wrong?

Thanks


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

You will struggle to get good results with the coffee you are using. It will be commodity grade coffee that will be roasted very dark.

Avoid any coffee that does not have a roasted on date on the bag. Coffee is generally ideal for espresso 14 days post roast. Supermarket coffee will likely be months old.

Try a local roaster or perhaps one of the forum sponsors. Go for something towards the darker end of the spectrum to start with although dark from a small roaster will be very different to dark by supermarket standards.

David


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Morgan John said:


> *Weight* - I'm seeing about 8-10g for a single and then around 18g for a double


 What is this the weight of, ground coffee or beverage in cup?

You need to be consistent with the weight of grinds in the PF.


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## Morgan John (Mar 31, 2021)

MWJB said:


> What is this the weight of, ground coffee or beverage in cup?
> 
> You need to be consistent with the weight of grinds in the PF.


 Once it's ground. Just varies when I change the grind vs length of grind but essentially that the rough weight within the PF once I've tamped


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## Morgan John (Mar 31, 2021)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> You will struggle to get good results with the coffee you are using. It will be commodity grade coffee that will be roasted very dark.
> 
> Avoid any coffee that does not have a roasted on date on the bag. Coffee is generally ideal for espresso 14 days post roast. Supermarket coffee will likely be months old.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Daivd,

Looking at your site, it seems you have three options, Signature, Chocolate and Twilight. Which would be you suggestion to start?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Morgan John said:


> Once it's ground. Just varies when I change the grind vs length of grind but essentially that the rough weight within the PF once I've tamped


 OK so what is the weight of the beverage in the cup?

Don't use rough weights, be fairly precise (10.0g single, or 17.0g double), use scales that read to 0.1g at least for dosing. Grind into a pot/cup/dry milk jug, then transfer carefully to PF, a funnel can be useful here. Give the PF a downward tap,or two to settle grounds, a couple of sideways taps with heel of your hand to level for tamping, tamp once, making sure to be level, no need to do it really hard, be consistent.

Put the cup on scales on the drip tray & kill the pump maybe 10g short of your target, it will drip on to target (what ratio are you aiming for? I'd suggest starting ~1:3). Use manual brew, rather than presets.

It does sound like you are too coarse still, but telling us your parameters for your next shot would be handy.

Forget crema, honey flow. Focus on the taste.


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## 8144 (Oct 9, 2014)

Morgan John said:


> Once it's ground. Just varies when I change the grind vs length of grind but essentially that the rough weight within the PF once I've tamped


 My brain cannot work out how your grind time is 5secs and your ground weight pre-brew in the PF is 18g!


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## Morgan John (Mar 31, 2021)

condy01 said:


> My brain cannot work out how your grind time is 5secs and your ground weight pre-brew in the PF is 18g!


 5 seconds for the single, 10 for double. Sorry, didn't make that clear


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Once you get no change in flow with grinder setting forget the bean and try some fresh roasted. I managed a number of beans that were not fresh roasted and had no problems at all other than one. Didn't matter how fine I ground water shot through. The odd thing was that providing enough flowed through taste was as it should be.

The other alternative is to use beans like this in the pressurised basket and go finer until the output reduces from what it gives when there is nothing in it. Then even finer etc to get a taste to suite.

Ideally you do need to control the amount of grinds that are used the razor tool will make sure you aren't using a silly amount after tamping. While you may have read that light tamping, howling at the moon and dancing around in circles makes great coffee I'd suggest you stick to a firm tamp for a while, say 15kg or more.


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## 8144 (Oct 9, 2014)

Morgan John said:


> 5 seconds for the single, 10 for double. Sorry, didn't make that clear


 No worries. Although 10secs for 18g still seems a tad on the quick side.


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## 8144 (Oct 9, 2014)

condy01 said:


> No worries. Although 10secs for 18g still seems a tad on the quick side.


 This is rather irrelevant though. As others have, and will, recommend... get yourself some fresh beans and start again, you'll notice a huge difference.


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