# The small batch trial bean vacuum/freeze experiment



## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

I mentioned this idea of vacuuming and then freezing etc in that thread but it might be better to expand upon that here...

Originally put the 500g bag straight into the hopper on day 5 after roast. That, on reflection, was too soon. It was around day 10 that I came to the end of these by which time the woodiness had mellowed a good deal allowing more of the choc through and another flavour that I have yet to identify. In my book these beans have a pleasant aftertaste at this point.

Next bag was in the fridge during the interim period Straight out and into the hopper no prewarm to room temp. First point of note was the need to tighten the grind. Having done so I played with long and short both on weight and time of pour and have to say enjoyed these more when letting the pour go longer.

Next bag out is currently still in use. It went straight from freezer to hopper and needed to go a bit coarser. Flavour wise no change to the fridged beans other than they felt fresher in use. and same rules apply...... pour long

The last bag will spend overnight in room temp before going into the hopper but I have been feeling a bit off the last few days and my already poor palate is of no use whatsoever when I have a cold so it may be a while yet before I can report

I have to say though that this Vac/freeze idea is not a bad one

I am surely the last person to talk taste references but If you have any questions I will try to give my thoughts


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

interesting would like to hear more detail on what you're testing and tasting.

I like the idea of vac packing for longer term storage in the freezer, though I'd ideally rather only do that with green beans. Would love to do a long term experiment with roasted beans but without an unfrozen control it's hard, you'd need to trust your palate and notes.

when you say longer what sorts of ratio changes are you seeing?

I'm not sure about the fridge, on 1 side vacuum packing gets around the moisture problem with fridging, the other side I'm not sure the temperature is low enough to retard the off gassing enough which means the bag is going to fill up with CO2 over time - are you fridging after they've rested? if not I dunno what happens to the beans once you then open the bag but I'd wonder about the volatiles being carried off with the CO2 (the egg heads will be able to answer this better than me).

When I freeze I generally do so when the beans are well rested and I'm able to hit the cupping notes, personally I try to freeze at their peak.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Phobic said:


> Would love to do a long term experiment with roasted beans


Already half way there, spreadsheet and all...


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

you keep teasing us


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

Scotford said:


> Already half way there, spreadsheet and all...


I haven't forgotten


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Phobic said:


> I haven't forgotten


Goodo. I think we all know what the conclusion is going to be though...


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

we need scientific proof, or at the very least opinionated pseudo science to divide us and cause heated debates.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Phobic said:


> we need scientific proof, or at the very least opinionated pseudo science to divide us and cause heated debates.


Some sort of "Subjective-Bean-Freezing-Scientific-Sensory-Analysis-Forum-Day"? SBFSSAFD


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

fatboyslim said:


> Some sort of "Subjective-Bean-Freezing-Scientific-Sensory-Analysis-Forum-Day"? SBFSSAFD


nice catchy acronym, same noise I make when I drop a bag of frozen beans on the floor and it splits open


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I've not done any detailed experiments, but I certainly haven't noticed any negative effects on taste from vac packing and freezing. What it does give is flexibility to have lots of different coffees in at any one time (i.e. lots of choice). It also gives greater consistency when pulling espresso - the recipe more or less stays the same (i.e. same grind setting will result in near identical pours day after day, week after week). This means I waste a lot less coffee.


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## Elcee (Feb 16, 2017)

Really cool to read. Forgive the question but do you just leave them out to defrost before grinding?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Elcee said:


> Really cool to read. Forgive the question but do you just leave them out to defrost before grinding?


I put mine to defrost in the microwave ?

Joking obviously, I soak them in water until they reach room temperature...?

Leave them out, avoid opening the bag too soon to prevent condensation. Another advantage of double bagging.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Elcee said:


> Really cool to read. Forgive the question but do you just leave them out to defrost before grinding?


I may have been talking crossed purposes with my previous post, I'm talking about grinding from frozen. Beans get re-vac packed and straight back into the freezer.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

fluffles said:


> I've not done any detailed experiments, but I certainly haven't noticed any negative effects on taste from vac packing and freezing. What it does give is flexibility to have lots of different coffees in at any one time (i.e. lots of choice). It also gives greater consistency when pulling espresso - the recipe more or less stays the same (i.e. same grind setting will result in near identical pours day after day, week after week). This means I waste a lot less coffee.


this is exactly why I freeze as well, spot on.

As for defrosting, I don't bother I grind from frozen, you just need to go a little coarser. That way I can drink a different bean each day 3-4 times a day for a week if I want to....


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