# Fracino Piccino - warning noob content



## wolsnah

Hi all,

My first proper contribution to the website. There'll no doubt be some rambling, and possibly incorrect terminology, but hopefully some useful information/pics will follow...

After seeing Andy's (coffeebean) offer for the Fracino Piccino, a bit of umming and ahhing and a few emails later saw me putting an order in with him at The Coffee Bean. Firstly, I have to say Andy was excellent and really easy to deal with and left me a happy customer, following up the purchase to see how I was getting on with the new machine.

Unfortunately, due to the wonderful pressures of being a modern day software project manager, with am imminent release on the horizon, I had a machine sat on the worktop at home on the 21st March, and no time to use it. Many late nights working ensued, with coffee not being the ideal refreshment late in the evening.

Fast forward to the 26th March, a weekend free of work (and other distractions), and a bit of time to play with the new gadgets finally presented itself. Firstly, here's what has been keeping myself and my good lady in constant supply of coffee for the previous four or five years.










The Magimix Robot Cafe has given us plenty of good, easy to produce cups of coffee. Set the water level, press a button, bingo, nice tasty coffee. The years of (ab)use have started to take their toll, so the new equipment was in order.

So, here it all is:










From left to right, my self built knock box, the Eureka Mignon and the Fracino Piccino. I'll include more photos at the end, but in the meantime, here's a description how I've fared so far. Firstly, bear in mind that I've come from a bean to cup machine, and have zero experience of proper barista technique or skills. With that in mind, a minor level of fear and major level of discovery ahead, I started with the grinder...

In went the beans, well that was the easy bit done. This version of the Mignon came with the timing mechanism which is inconveniently set underneath the machine, with the grind fine/coarseness dial on the top. Having done a bit of reading, I started with setting it as fine as possible, with an average grind time, hoping it would produce roughly the right amount of ground coffee. Errr yes, how was I going to know if I had the right dosage? We'd just disposed of our digital scales, and the classic replacement scales only measure in increments of 20g. Ok, guesswork was in order.

The manual for the Piccino states that the ground coffee should be placed in the filter basket, and once tamped, should reach to the edge mark that lies around 5mm under the top of the basket. That seemed a lot of coffee, but hey, that's what the instructions said. In went the coffee, after having done a couple of grinds, and on to my first attempt at tamping. The provided tamper is plastic, no frills (I have a Motta on order already) but seemed to do the job. How much pressure do I use







beats me. So down I push and get a nice pressed flat surface. So far so good, this barista malarky is simple! Time to put the filter into the group head... Hmmm yes, I seem to have put too much coffee in the filter basket, or maybe that's how it's meant to be and I'm not used to the feel. Caution got the better of me and I took some coffee out, and retamped (probably a major faux pas in the barista world).

At this point I realised I'd forgot to turn the machine on and warm it up! On it went, and the bright blue LED on the front lit up to tell me it was transferring water and heating up. Maybe this would be a good point to describe the machine? Engineering wise, the machine appears to be very well built, and if weight = quality, it was going to be a pro machine. Apart from the drip tray, the machine appears to be engineered from metal all round, with the side panels being black in colour with a slight bump texture finish. The rest is lovely polished steel. I'd tested removal of the drip tray, which is wedged between the side panels, so held in place by the pressure of the panels surrounding it, rather than any clip/click mechanisms. The water is entered via a panel at the back left hand side of the machine on the top, and I believe the water tank is removable, but I've yet to do so. Water went in via two full kettles.

Back to the coffee... the machine had heated up, the pressure showed 1.1 bar and with a flick of the pump switch, the pump burst into life and the coffee started to flow. I filled the cup enough for a standard espresso (by eye, not by measure), and had some crema present, but not as much as the Magimix gives. Regardless, it was time for the taste test... Man! This stuff was like rocket fuel. A nice level of bitterness, but oh such a strong powerful flavour. Whilst this was pleasing on one hand, it wasn't quite what I was aiming for. I wanted something richer in flavour, with a bit of a kick, but one that left me still on the floor and not on the ceiling.

Back to the grinder then and attempt two, and then three, four, five, six, etc. Sadly, the first cup was probably the best cup I'd done, with each subsequent one being slightly worse than the one previous. Sometimes the water flowed from one side only, other times hardly at all, and when it did flow, seemed a little anemic. At that point, having drank my fair share of potent, and awful, coffee, I gave up. It was time to break out some of the other toys that swallow up my free time, and before I knew it, the weekend was over.

Sunday night was spent ordering various bits and bobs that I hope will help me measure better and start on the road to better coffee. As mentioned, the Motta tamp is on order, as are some measured shot glasses, a tamping mat (to save the new work surface in the kitchen, as you might have guessed from the state of the walls and lack of tiles!) and most important, some digital scales so I can start with the recommended dosage of ground coffee. Will I have time to use it this week once the new orders have arrived? Probably not, but the weekend is so far free from activity, although if the weather stays nice, some driving time will be in order, but otherwise will start round two with the Piccino.

I am very much of the opinion that the problems so far, lay firmly and squarely with the owner. The machine appears to be very well built, and certainly capable of producing a good brew, and my respect goes to those people that can produce a good espresso consistently. I had no idea what skill was involved in doing things manually. The struggle will be worth it, I've enjoyed my initial (frustrating) foray into the barista world, but am looking forward to getting a technique sorted that produces consistent good cups of coffee.

Here's a few extra pictures to give you some detail of the machine. Apologies if there's a lack of detail in the writeup, I don't know what people are looking for in a description, so feel free to ask any specific questions and I'll get back to you with an answer as soon as I can.










Steve


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## wolsnah

And more pics...





































Steve


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## Glenn

Thanks for your writeup Steve

A real tamper will make all the difference.

It really mystifies me why proper tampers are not supplied - even at discounted rates

You're not anywhere near Sheffield are you with a spare hour or so after 5pm on Thursday? (it's worth asking...







)


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## wolsnah

Hi Glenn, define near... I'm in Crich, so t'other side of the peak district to Sheffield. Why d'you ask? Missus is out Thursday night so have some time on my hands


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## lookseehear

Looks a lovely machine! Can't wait to see how it is after a bit more time. If you got chance to make a quick video showing pulling a shot and milk steaming I bet there would be a lot of grateful people around here.

Also, those beans are a really dark roast - have you always been keen on that type of bean?


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## Glenn

Check PM's


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## coffeebean

Thanks for the review Steve and glad you are happy with your purchase! A proper tamper will make all the difference and practice makes perfect........

cheers!

Andy


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## wolsnah

lookseehear, I'll see what I can do with a video. I think my camera does videos, but can't say I've ever done one, and the camera on my mobile phone is next to useless. I'll also see what I can do with milk steaming. Our household consists of two "milk doesn't belong in coffee" drinkers, but that doesn't mean we can't froth some up as an experiment. We only have skimmed though, does that make a difference?

As for the beans, the other half picked up a kilo bag of some Starbuck's blend from Costco as a bit of a bulk purchase for experimentation to try and get a decent cup of coffee without ruining any nice freshly roasted beans. Once I get an averagely decent brew from those, I'll look into proper beans a bit more, but we have always had a darker roast. Chap I used to work with liked his coffee and he sorted the office out with some Rio Espresso Oro beans which we really liked. I've not tried too many different beans, but like the deep flavour that the dark beans I've tried so far have given.

Glenn, PM replied to, thanks









Was hoping new tamper might turn up today, but alas, no joy... Still, always worth another go now I have the digi scales


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## DonRJ

Looks like a great buy there dude, look forward to more reports as you come to terms with driving the Picino.


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## melwhite

Hey Steve,

I have also just invested in the new Piccino and after an agonisingly long wait while it was delayed due to some problem on the assembly line, it has finally arrived. Very exciting times!

So I raced home on a friday night to play with my new toy, looking forward to a weekend full of fun and caffeine.

Unfortunately, mine doesn't work.

I followed the instructions in the manual, turned it on and tried to prime the pump but it doesn't suck the water up to fill the boiler. The pump goes, but nothing else happens and no water flows through it. Eventually, a warning buzzer goes off and I have to turn it off. Extremely disappointing.

I've tried everything I can think of to get it moving, but no joy. There is air in the pipes and maybe an airlock, but I can't see how to get rid of it.

The manual is not particularly detailed, but one thing in there does make me concerned..... it says you can fill the water tank whilst it's in the machine, or for your convenience, you can take it out and fill it under the tap. But mine's screwed in. And when I really started to investigate it, I noticed what appear to be sensors at the bottom. There's no way you can "conveniently" just slip that out and take it to the sink. It also says, once you've filled your tank you have to make sure it's seated properly and "fully engaged" or a buzzer will sound. I'm not sure how much more fully engaged it could be than being screwed in!

So this makes me wonder if there should be a removable water container inside the water tank. Mine didn't come with one - does your machine have this? I'm reluctant to keep putting water in it and trying to get things moving if I might be missing a crucial part!

Any help would be most appreciated as it's going to be a long weekend of frustration until Fracino reopen on Monday!

Thanks,

Mel


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## wolsnah

Hi Mel, just seen your reply. Sorry to hear you're having problems. I have to agree that the manual isn't the best, but like a lot of manuals, I've used it as a reference rather than following to the letter. I too was confused by the removable water tank reference, and without really yanking on it, thought it would come out easily if it was meant to. As a result, we've filled ours with water by pouring directly in.

One thing I noticed with mine on unpacking, there were remnants of water residue in places, which makes me think it had been fully tested before being sent. Was yours the same? I can't think of much else to suggest looking at, playing with, but if you need me to check anything on mine, feel free to drop me a PM or reply. The rubber hose on mine seems to pick up water fine, and I don't recall us doing anything special with regards to initial trials.

The good news from my side is that I've at least now manage to pull a good couple of espressos, although only with a very fine grind. I'm happy with it at least now







I'll get some pics of some pulled espressos over the coming days. As I say, if you wish me to check anything, let me know. I'm sure the wait will be worth it once you get it running


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## wolsnah

Just had a quick check on mine, it looks like the black screw at the bottom is holding it in place. I've not ventured to remove it, so don't know if that's the one thing holding it in place. I'm assuming the two silver cylinders are the sensors, probably passing a small current between the two to identify when the water has run too low, as both silver cylinders are in plastic elements that stand proud of the bottom of the tank. I'd guess (but don't know) that the instructions in the manual are slightly incorrect and need an update to clarify if that screw first needs removing and whether it's there purely for transport purposes. It looks to me (assuming yours is the same) that the plastic container itself should come out, rather than it having a secondary container held within it. So I'm guessing you're not missing anything from the point of view of water containers.

Stupid question time, after filling the tank, and turning on, did you power on the other (brew) switch straight away? Don't know if timing matters between the two switches. I'm guessing you've probably already tried a number of things already.


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## wolsnah

One more early morning (for me!) thought. The manual mentions removing all coverings, mine didn't have any. Could it be that the sensors in the bottom of your water tank are covered, either by some clear plastic, or some plastic caps? If that was the case, I'd expect the left hand light to come on though, which I don't think you mentioned, to indicate there was no water in the machine, but would likely stop it trying to draw it through.


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## melwhite

Hey Steve,

Thanks so much for all the info. That's really helpful.

It sounds like my machine is set up the same as yours. I also have the black screw and two silver sensors at the bottom of the tank. Nothing came with any covers on it. The pump is directly under that black screw so I'm guessing that restricts the flow into the vibe pump? The tube coming into the top of the tank looks like the overflow pipe to me. There is no way to remove the tank without getting your tools out (and even then, I don't think it's straight-forward) so the manual is definitely misleading.

I don't recall seeing any water in mine when it arrived so I'm inclined to think it wasn't tested. Also the drip tray doesn't actually sit in properly as the machine is about 1-2mm too narrow. Makes me feel as though it was put together in haste to catch up with the backlog after the production delays.

I did turn on the brew switch right after the power switch. Initially, the left hand blue light came on and the pump started once I turned on the brew switch, but after maybe 20-30 secs of nothing else happening, the buzzer sounded. According to the manual, this could be due to the water level being too low (it was at max) or the tank not being seated properly. I wiggled the tank around and pushed it down a bit and tried again a few more times. After a while the buzzer noise stopped going when I tried to prime the machine, but still nothing more seemed to be happening. Certainly no water coming out of the group and I began to get worried that I would fry the pump.

I left it a few hours and then went back to keep trying. No joy.

This is what happens now: Turn on the power (left hand blue light comes on), turn on the brew switch and pump starts. After 5 seconds there is a click (solenoid?) and the boiler filling light comes on. The pump just keeps grinding away sounding the same and no water comes from the group. After 40-50secs the boiler filling light switches off and the buzzer sounds. That's it. Sometimes there is a drip or two from the pipe directly behind the group. Never anything through the group or steam wand.









I never get any water coming back into the tank through the overflow pipe (do you?) so the pump doesn't seem to be pushing the water anywhere. I've tried adjusting the black screw back and forth a bit but it didn't seem to make any difference. So, I guess I'm stuck until I talk to Fracino. I don't want to do anything that will invalidate the warranty!

It's such a shame as I was really excited about getting this and it was a wedding present. I'm glad you've had more success with yours.... hopefully Fracino can sort mine out as it's just torture having it sat there on the kitchen bench and I'm unable to use it!


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## wolsnah

The drip tray is the same as mine. I agree, it's not the best of fitments, I was expecting a nice slotted click in type fitment, but it looks to me like it's purposefully too large so that you slide it in so that it is held firmly between the sides. I would start by getting the curved back part inside the two edges at the part where the tabs eventually rest, and then push it through towards the back. You should find it then slots in nicely, with the tabs dropping onto the recessed parts of the metal sides. It's nice and tight once in, just not the easiest to slot in until you get a technique that works.

I was of the belief that the rubber hose coming into the tank was sucking the water up, hence it being so long and reaching to the bottom of the tank, but I could be completely wrong!! It does sound like you have some sort of blockage, is the hose that's coming in kinked at all?

Sorry I can't be of any more help, hopefully you'll get a simple answer from Fracino in the morning, just a shame you've missed out on playing with it over the weekend.


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## melwhite

I can sometimes get the drip tray to sit in ok, but often it just pops back out! Oddly, adjusting the height of the front legs seemed to help a bit. It's not the best design.

I've checked all the hoses into and out of the pump (initially hoping it was something simple like a kink) but they look fine. The hose leading into the pump from under the tank is full of water and unobstructed. There is a braided hose that comes out of the pump and goes up through what I think must be the over pressure valve. The tube leading back into the tank is above this, so presumably if the pump was generating too much pressure, the excess would be relieved by a flow of water back into the tank through that long tube. The tube leading into the boiler looks fine and is full of water. All the other tubes leading out (?) of the boiler are dry. It seems to me that for whatever reason, my pump just isn't generating enough pressure to fill the boiler.


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## wolsnah

Sounds like you've tried everything you can







Ours was running low on water, so I've just left it pumping through to see what happens, and I get the audible warning, albeit only slightly louder than the pump. Looks like you're correct re the incoming hose being an overflow or something, there was zero movement on the water in the hose whilst it was pumping through.

Good luck on getting yours sorted, hopefully it'll be something that can be simply fixed, and possibly get you a new (tested) machine shipped out and yours picked up, it's not like you've overused it.

Keep us posted on how you go, customer service is always a good measure of a company, and let us know if you find anything out about the alleged removable water filling tank. I'm happy with mine, I'm sure you'll be once you get it working.

Congrats on the (I assume) recent marriage


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## melwhite

Thanks for all the help Steve.

I'll keep you posted on how I go with Fracino.

After having convinced my new hubby to spend a fair chunk of our wedding money on this machine, I need to get it sorted asap!


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## melwhite

Update:

So, I spoke to one of the engineers at Fracino this morning. Initially he was mystified and then he suggested I remove the water tank and replace it again. I asked him if there was meant to be another container inside the tank as it seemed pretty much stuck but he said that they just fitted in tightly.

After much tugging and yanking on the back of the tank, I got it out and put it back in. It felt and looked exactly the same but, hey presto, this time when I powered her up, I actually got water going into the boiler and out through the group. Hallelujah! Problem solved right? Nope.

This time, it got as far as starting to generate some steam before the alarm went off again.

So, I called the engineer back. His suggestion? Yup, keep wiggling the water tank!

Apparently, there is a known issue with the valve that leads from the water tank into the pump. It's too stiff or something. They are currently trying to find a replacement for the part and are expecting a sample in next week.

So, I wiggled the water tank, repeated the whole procedure and this time got water out of the group and 1 bar pressure for the steam.

Hmmm.... kind of seemed to be working, so I thought maybe that would be it.

Got off the phone and tried the whole cycle again. The boiler filled, steam at 1 bar and we're sitting good to go. I was just about to start grinding some beans and the pump kicks in again to top up the boiler. A little strange I thought since I haven't let any water or steam out but whatever. The pump grinds away for a few seconds and then the whole thing cuts out and turns itself off. Oh, come on!! *%$^**?!

At this point, I was close to an hour late for work and ready to take out my frustration on the machine so I turned her off, released the steam and left it until later. It wasn't until I was halfway to work that I got worried it'd thrown a circuit breaker but I guess I'll have to see tonight.

The engineer I spoke to suggested taking the tank out and cleaning the contact for the valve. I'll give that a go tonight but unless there's big old wadge of gunk in there, I'd be surprised if that's a magic cure.

So, in summary, my machine still isn't behaving, the tank IS removable, and if I were you Steve, while your valve appears to be working I'd leave it right where it is!


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## vintagecigarman

Sorry, but in my book it's time to send it back and get a refund!


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## Eyedee

It takes years to build up a reputation but only minutes to lose one.

Ian


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## Glenn

There are teething problems with all new machines

Having had a hands on with a Fracino Piccino and seen it in action being stress tested (as part of the Guinness World Record attempt at London Coffee Festival) where the little machine held it's own under pressure I'd not be too quick to write it off

There are several areas for improvement which some of the retailers have already fed back to Fracino

That said, it's sad to hear of a machine not working out of the box. I'm sure it will be resolved very quickly. Fracino have good customer service and parts are UK based too, should anything go wrong in the future.


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## vintagecigarman

I'm sure that at the end of the day Fracino will get this issue sorted out, and I'm equally sure that it will turn out to be a sturdy and reliable product. (but I am surprised that they are letting machines with a known problem out of their factory.)

BUT - if you get one that doesn't work out of the box, in my view there's only one course of action - either a refund or a replacement, depending on what the customer wants. If I bought a new TV and it didn't work it would go straight back, no ifs, no buts, no "try this and it might work". No reason why an expensive coffee machine should get any preferential tratment.


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## melwhite

It's unfortunate that I've had this problem, but I think I have to give Fracino a chance to rectify it before I write them off as a company.

I'd also like to point out that it was one of the engineers I was talking to today - not customer services. His interest was primarily what the problem might be, not what the company was going to do about it and that's fine. I was calling at that point to try and troubleshoot in case there was something simple that would resolve the problem.

It's obviously not happening with every machine so maybe I was particularly unlucky.

Certainly, it's not an ideal situation but how they deal with it will make a big difference. If I end up with a nice new working machine then I could still end up a happy customer.


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## wolsnah

Thanks for all the details Mel. It's interesting and useful to know at least that the water tank does come out, allbeit with a bit of a strong tug. I'll leave mine firmly fixed until such point that I need to give it a good clean just in case. One of the pros for me was reading a report that they liked to keep a lot of their manufacturing local, to ensure an easy supply of parts, sometimes on demand. It's true that companies have teething problems with new products, and I for one am normally a second generation adopter rather than an early one, so rare for me to have bought something so unknown so soon. Not that it's worth anything, but I think you are taking the correct approach Mel in trying to get the problem rectified and if it doesn't, then pursue whatever course will make you happy.

I'll live in hope that mine lasts me many years, and if it does encounter any problems, they are rectified swiftly and easily







Overall, the machine gets a thumbs up from me.


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## vintagecigarman

Glenn said:


> There are teething problems with all new machines
> 
> There are several areas for improvement which some of the retailers have already fed back to Fracino


Glenn, there's a post on another forum about Fracino proposing to beef up the chassis on subsequent production to stop flexing if any pressure is applied to the portafilter handle. Was this an issue that you noted?

One of my friends is quite keen to buy one of these, but is now wondering if it may be best to wait for a while. He was originally looking at a Silvia, but would prefer a Piccino, but has concerns about being an earlier adopter


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## Glenn

Yes, this is the main issue. The group is not as well supported as it could be, and a hard twist of the portafilter will see the panel holding the group flex

It won't take much to fix this. The team at The Coffee Machine will keep us posted with product updates and I am sure Andy from The Coffee Bean will too


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## melwhite

Hmmm... that's interesting. I hadn't noticed this issue. Maybe I'm not strong enough to twist the portafilter that hard!









I just spoke to Fracino an hour ago about the water tank issue.

They're expecting a few samples in next week for replacement seals and assuming one of them does the job, they should be in all the production line machines in 2 - 3 weeks.


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## coffeebean

I've been liasing with Fracino and Mel with her machine and they have a replacement seal that will do the job - her machine is I understand, being picked up tomorrow to be fixed and to go through a full factory retest before being sent back to her. As Mel says, all new production line machines will have the new seals within the next couple of weeks.


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