# Gaggia Classic do I have a problem?



## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

I'm pulling great shots with my classic but I'm not sure whether I have a problem with my steam wand??

I'd be extremely grateful if someone could view my video and get some thoughts, no doubt it's my technique!

I get a stream of hot water with the steam and brew buttons on.

I did read the other thread on here but mine having a PID is maybe different?

Many Thanks

Cloughy


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

cloughy said:


> I'm pulling great shots with my classic but I'm not sure whether I have a problem with my steam wand??
> 
> I'd be extremely grateful if someone could view my video and get some thoughts, no doubt it's my technique!
> 
> ...


Its hard to judge from the video alone, but to me I feel you are doing something wrong or something is wrong. For instance, I noticed that, when you press the steam button, the numbers in the PID remain the same, indicating that the element is not heating enough.

You should see 120C or thereabouts in order to generate steam. Are you sure your PID is set up correctly?


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Temperature needs to be above 130C for steaming. i think you need to adjust it on pid.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? My tebe has a separate water button (I presume for americanos) which directs the water through the steam wand.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

many thanks to you both for quick response, will give that a try


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ashcroc said:


> Isn't that how it's supposed to work? My tebe has a separate water button (I presume for americanos) which directs the water through the steam wand.


No. Water via steam wand can be used by having the steam and brew button on at the same time. Not the case in the video.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

putting it up to 120 has got the steam wand working as it should, thanks! sorry for my lack of knowledge but would 120 be an ok temperature for pulling shots or does the PID have 2 settings?


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

it should be 93C-94C for brewing 125C-135C for steaming. But there was a discussion about offsetting brewing by few degrees higher which i am not exactly sure by how much or if it was necessary. Hope someone with better knowledge on this can help.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

cloughy said:


> putting it up to 120 has got the steam wand working as it should, thanks! sorry for my lack of knowledge but would 120 be an ok temperature for pulling shots or does the PID have 2 settings?


My understanding is that the PID has two settings, one for steam and one for brew.

You should read up on that PID, both how to use and how to setup and go from there.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Which PID do you have ? Some are set up to control both brew and steam, others only control the brew temperature.

Brewing at 120 will give you horrible coffee.

As above approx 93 for brewing and 127 for steaming.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> No. Water via steam wand can be used by having the steam and brew button on at the same time. Not the case in the video.


Hadn't gotten to watching the vid yet. Thought he was talking about both swithes being on.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

El carajillo said:


> Which PID do you have ? Some are set up to control both brew and steam, others only control the brew temperature.
> 
> Brewing at 120 will give you horrible coffee.
> 
> As above approx 93 for brewing and 127 for steaming.


It's a mypin t series, will see if I can get hold of a manual, bought the machine recently so am just getting my head around the PID


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

After a almost a week and 6 litres of milk I finally landed some microfoam! Do the espresso first then set the PID to 122. Jug coming from the freezer seems to have helped as well but that could have been improved technique also. It's not the hottest drink in the world even having boiling water in my loveramics cup for warming but i suppose that's the drawback of of a single boiler


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## russe11 (May 12, 2012)

cloughy said:


> After a almost a week and 6 litres of milk I finally landed some microfoam! Do the espresso first then set the PID to 122. Jug coming from the freezer seems to have helped as well but that could have been improved technique also. It's not the hottest drink in the world even having boiling water in my loveramics cup for warming but i suppose that's the drawback of of a single boiler


Luke warm coffee shouldn't be the drawback of a single boiler.. It should still be hot! Sounds like something is either not working properly or your not steaming your milk long enough? Suggest you take a look at a few videos on YouTube to brush up on your technic/timing etc and get a better idea on how Classic should perform? If you cant replicate something close to the videos it's a possibility that your machine is not heating up correctly?


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

yeah it what probably not steaming milk long enough, it's getting better now


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

i've found it better to steam milk first then turn machine off to cool it down quicker. Obviously I dont want water too hot for my espresso, i take it i can rely on the PID to make sure temp has dropped to the 90's for the shot?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Check the settings for the PID first and set them correctly AP /93 & 127.

Brew first --switch to steam, allow to heat (watch PID) then steam milk. With the PID set correctly you should not have any problem heat / temp wise.

If you steam first you will have to flush to bring the temperature down for brewing.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

cloughy said:


> i've found it better to steam milk first then turn machine off to cool it down quicker. Obviously I dont want water too hot for my espresso, i take it i can rely on the PID to make sure temp has dropped to the 90's for the shot?


Errrrr surely if you switch the machine off..... the PID won't do anything.... but nor will the pump (for the shot)....

(Sorry I'm in pedantic mode tonight :-0 )


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Drewster said:


> Errrrr surely if you switch the machine off..... the PID won't do anything.... but nor will the pump (for the shot)....
> 
> (Sorry I'm in pedantic mode tonight :-0 )


It's not worth turning the machine off anyway. The PID won't turn on the boiler until the temp has dropped far enough so it'll take the same amount of time as leaving it on.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

I'll be honest I've got no idea how my PID works! at the moment i'm having to manually adjust the PID temp to alternate between brew and steam, when i press the steam button the PID doesn't change, i presume it should??


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

cloughy said:


> I'll be honest I've got no idea how my PID works! at the moment i'm having to manually adjust the PID temp to alternate between brew and steam, when i press the steam button the PID doesn't change, i presume it should??


While I've never touched a mypin PID it looks similar to the rex-c 100 & if wired up correctly with 2 ssr's should be capable of having a 2nd temp setting when you hit the steam switch. Just googled it & found this pageon programming one which may help.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

@cloughy

Just investigated & it looks like they do both a TA4-SSR with 2 alarms & a TA4-SNR with only one alarm. The rating plate on the side will tell you which model you have. If you do have a SNR you can either carry on as you are manually changing the temp or just run the steam circuit through the manual thermostat on the boiler.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> @cloughy
> 
> Just investigated & it looks like they do both a TA4-SSR with 2 alarms & a TA4-SNR with only one alarm. The rating plate on the side will tell you which model you have. If you do have a SNR you can either carry on as you are manually changing the temp or just run the steam circuit through the manual thermostat on the boiler.


Brill, thanks for doing that! I think I may have the SSR model you describe as I have al/1 & al/2 on the front?


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Yeah the reading on the PID should start to count up (as long as you've wired it up to control steam too..!!)


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Jon_Foster said:


> Yeah the reading on the PID should start to count up (as long as you've wired it up to control steam too..!!)


Oops sorry was responding to Cloughy's question from a while back, missed the last page of the thread!!


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Jon_Foster said:


> Yeah the reading on the PID should start to count up (as long as you've wired it up to control steam too..!!)


yeah, i'm starting to think it hasn't been wired up to control steam


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

cloughy said:


> yeah, i'm starting to think it hasn't been wired up to control steam


Could you take a photo of the machine with the top off please? It'll give us an idea of how it's been installed.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Sure thing, that was easy to get inside


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

cloughy said:


> Sure thing, that was easy to get inside


You have 2 SSR's so it should be wired for steam.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> You have 2 SSR's so it should be wired for steam.


Thanks, that's strange then....the only loose wires I can see are these which I presume is to do with the thermostat that's not required?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

cloughy said:


> Thanks, that's strange then....the only loose wires I can see are these which I presume is to do with the thermostat that's not required?


Yeah, the PID just needs the one temp sensor for both brew & steam so the top stat isn't required. It's good they've left the wiring in there incase you ever want to revert to standard though.

Hopefully it's just the alarm2 temp has been set the same as the alarm1 instead of 137-147° (assuming it's programmed qith an 8° offset to show temp at grouphead).


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Thanks @ashcroc will have a play with the settings to see what happens


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Slight progress I think but have created another problem! I've set Al/1 for 101.5c and Al/2 for 127c

However after I've pulled the shot and clicked the steam button the temp goes on a fast run of which I can't control past 150c where the numbers on the display then don't display 150. Only after I've used the wand does it start to come back to the 130's/140's. I would say after I've clicked the steam button the green numbers still display 101.5 it's the current temp that goes on a run.

I've no idea why this happens?!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

cloughy said:


> Slight progress I think but have created another problem! I've set Al/1 for 101.5c and Al/2 for 127c
> 
> However after I've pulled the shot and clicked the steam button the temp goes on a fast run of which I can't control past 150c where the numbers on the display then don't display 150. Only after I've used the wand does it start to come back to the 130's/140's. I would say after I've clicked the steam button the green numbers still display 101.5 it's the current temp that goes on a run.
> 
> I've no idea why this happens?!


Try running an autotune so the PID can learn what it needs to do to keep a stable temp. It's in the link I put up earlier.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> Try running an autotune so the PID can learn what it needs to do to keep a stable temp. It's in the link I put up earlier.


Will do, cheers


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

Really pleased, getting some decent performance now from the steam wand resulting in some good microfoam, milk art needs some improvement though!


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