# Choosing a commercial espresso machine...



## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

Hello,

I'm looking at purchasing a 2 group espresso machine for my bar.

Could someone recommend some good machines for around about the £4000 mark?

I'm seeing lots of budget commercial machines for around the £2000 mark. Is there any reason why I should or shouldn't bother with such a machine?

Many thanks in advance!!!

Tom


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Hi Tom,

I'm not up to speed on commercial machines per se but I think it may be dependent on what kind of volumes you expect on an hourly/daily basis and also if you have any specific wants, such as volumetric, gravimetric (or similar) etc.?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

@coffeebean


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Fracino are used widely and they're UK based so parts and servicing isn't really an issue


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

jlarkin said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> I'm not up to speed on commercial machines per se but I think it may be dependent on what kind of volumes you expect on an hourly/daily basis and also if you have any specific wants, such as volumetric, gravimetric (or similar) etc.?


It'll be nothing like coffee shop volume. But i'm hoping to be making a steady amount each day.


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi Tom,

I can do you a 2 group Fracino Contempo semi auto for £2600 delivered, installed and with a 12 month parts and labour warranty









Where are you based?

Andy


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Have you thought about a 2 group lever machine? eI'll get you better results in the cup


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> Have you thought about a 2 group lever machine? eI'll get you better results in the cup


Not really. I'd prefer a traditional espresso machine


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Lol


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tomsteetley said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm looking at purchasing a 2 group espresso machine for my bar.
> 
> ...


The answer is quite simple. Choose a machine where you have good local support/engineers, easy and fast availability of parts. The make of machine is relatively unimportant. Also, never ever enter into a bean, free machine or lease type agreement. Buy the machine outright and either get a service contract on it, or ensure you have access to a good engineer.

It's a business and it's important your machine stays working.

P.S> Oh and yeah, those new fangled levers....I hear you bro....keep it traditional!


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> The answer is quite simple. Choose a machine where you have good local support/engineers, easy and fast availability of parts. The make of machine is relatively unimportant. Also, never ever enter into a bean, free machine or lease type agreement. Buy the machine outright and either get a service contract on it, or ensure you have access to a good engineer.
> 
> It's a business and it's important your machine stays working.
> 
> P.S> Oh and yeah, those new fangled levers....I hear you bro....keep it traditional!


Thank you!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Tom, just to keep things on the level, lever machines are the original with the pumped version coming in after. A lever machine, because the pressure to pull the shot is generated by the spring, and therefore reduces in pressure the longer the shot pulls produces a completely different result to a pump machine where an electric pump forces the water through the puck.

It all depends if you want to serve top notch coffee, or just coffee......a whole array of arguments to consider. Far less to go wrong with a lever machine but probably need higher skill sets


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Grinder.

Grinder.


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Tom, just to keep things on the level, lever machines are the original with the pumped version coming in after. A lever machine, because the pressure to pull the shot is generated by the spring, and therefore reduces in pressure the longer the shot pulls produces a completely different result to a pump machine where an electric pump forces the water through the puck.
> 
> It all depends if you want to serve top notch coffee, or just coffee......a whole array of arguments to consider. Far less to go wrong with a lever machine but probably need higher skill sets


Thank you for clearing that up. I'm a trained barista so i'd quite like to use machines that i'm used to.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

tomsteetley said:


> Thank you for clearing that up. I'm a trained barista so i'd quite like to use machines that i'm used to.


Which makes perfect sense. Dave has given you the best advice. See what is available locally.....do not enter a contract regarding beans......find a good service engineer and see what he suggests.......jeebsy asked what grinder you want......thats just as important as the machine obviously


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Which makes perfect sense. Dave has given you the best advice. See what is available locally.....do not enter a contract regarding beans......find a good service engineer and see what he suggests.......jeebsy asked what grinder you want......thats just as important as the machine obviously


Many thanks. Yeah the grinder is my next job!


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

tomsteetley said:


> Many thanks. Yeah the grinder is my next job!


Can source you a grinder too if you like - what sort of thing are you after?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

If I was in the middle of the countryside in South Wales and I had a broken leg, with no power left on my mobile...I'd just shout, I need a Machine and Grinder (as loud as possible) and I'm pretty sure within a few minutes, a Van would pull up to give me assistance.


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

DavecUK said:


> If I was in the middle of the countryside in South Wales and I had a broken leg, with no power left on my mobile...I'd just shout, I need a Machine and Grinder (as loud as possible) and I'm pretty sure within a few minutes, a Van would pull up to give me assistance.


.......may be in the car Dave - my van couldn't get ANYWHERE within a few minutes!! lol


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Grinder. Grinder. Grinder.

Go for something easily serviceable and maintainable, Linea classics go cheap and are built like tanks.

Also, did I mention grinder? No?

GRINDER


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Also, I know I may have forgotten to mention it before but by the way, GET A GOOD GRINDER


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> Tom, just to keep things on the level, lever machines are the original with the pumped version coming in after. A lever machine, because the pressure to pull the shot is generated by the spring, and therefore reduces in pressure the longer the shot pulls produces a completely different result to a pump machine where an electric pump forces the water through the puck.
> 
> It all depends if you want to serve top notch coffee, or just coffee......a whole array of arguments to consider. Far less to go wrong with a lever machine but probably need higher skill sets


Dave. can you elaborate what top notch coffee is and just coffee? I'd like to know what category I fall into


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

If we assume a good grinder, is it important to ensure it's NOT doser model? The in-house cafe where I work is run by someone claiming to have previously worked as a barista but who doesn't realise that his coffee is frequently awful because he's using doser'd mazzers with coffee sat there ground and getting stale because he only serves a coffee every 5 minutes or so at the busiest periods. It's ok though 'coz he's got his fresh roasted Clifton coffee beans on display


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

dwalsh1 said:


> Dave. can you elaborate what top notch coffee is and just coffee? I'd like to know what category I fall into


Well, there is no arguing that a lever machine produces a different cup compared to a pump machine, even when using the same beans. Generally, the skill sets required to run lever in a commercial setting are more demanding than a pump. I am not suggesting for 2 seconds that you cannot make a good cuppa on a pump, but I am suggesting that in a commercial environment, a lever machine might just give you an edge.

Dennis, if you are happy with the coffee you produce, then great! You are not selling it, so who gives a fig!


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## hilltopbrews (May 17, 2013)

Iberital have great range of commercial machines and grinders. Easy to maintain and easy to source spares if needed. I sell commercial coffee machines and grinders to businesses.

Sarah

http://www.hilltopbrews.co.uk


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

Grinder has to be on demand for sure. I think no one can go wrong with a 2 group LM Linea AV and you could throw in a Mazzer Major for a grinder but new it'll be just over budget for you (but bear in mind good resale values), or look on ebay for a decent used one with good providence... They often pop up, I think there's a few on there now. Otherwise you'll get a good two group Simonelli machine for 20% less than the La Marzocco equivalent which is completely fine if you're doing less than 100/150 coffees a day.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Grahamg said:


> If we assume a good grinder, is it important to ensure it's NOT doser model? The in-house cafe where I work is run by someone claiming to have previously worked as a barista but who doesn't realise that his coffee is frequently awful because he's using doser'd mazzers with coffee sat there ground and getting stale because he only serves a coffee every 5 minutes or so at the busiest periods. It's ok though 'coz he's got his fresh roasted Clifton coffee beans on display


You could use a grinder with doser and still only grind what you need for each shot... That's fine but yeah having it sat is definitely suboptimal!


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

Does anyone know what the san remo capri 2 group retails at?


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Around £2200 +Vat for the basic model; around £2600 +Vat for the model with electronic temp. control etc.


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## SmithStCoffeeRoasters (Feb 23, 2016)

The San Remo Capri SED 2 group has a RRP of 3390 + Vat. If you get one for 2.6k it's an amazing price. If you want any info on San Remo kit give us a bell numbers on the website


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## tomsteetley (May 18, 2016)

SmithStCoffeeRoasters said:


> The San Remo Capri SED 2 group has a RRP of 3390 + Vat. If you get one for 2.6k it's an amazing price. If you want any info on San Remo kit give us a bell numbers on the website


Thank you


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