# Brewtus brew boiler not working-



## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I got a gift from my wife. It was a Brewtus 4-V about 2 weeks ago. It was a nice and long awaiting upgrade from my Gaggia. The machine is great until today. We made our morning coffee with no problem. This afternoon, I turned the machine on for an afternoon coffee. The steam boiler went to pressure but the PID is displaying the current temp in the boiler and not heating. The small dot is on in the PID (see picture) is turned on and does not turn off. When the steam boiler turns on, the small dot does not disappear.

I made sure the PID is in C and the offset is 10. I did a factor reset by engaging the right button while turning on.

I looked inside. All wires seem intact. The SSR light is off and not blinking. I tried an alternative spare SSR. No change, the SSR light is not blinking. I tried a voltpen on the 4 contacts of both SSRs. All the leads light the pen up except for the white output.

I'm about to send an email to the seller but want to see if it is a simple problem that I can fix.

I don't remember if the light on PID is on when it is trying to send power to the boiler or not. Can my boiler be blown? Could the SSR be the fault, even though I tried a spare SSR? Could it be the PID?

I hope you guys can help









-Mike
View attachment 13342


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

A further thought. If the PID light on means the power to brew boiler is engaged, that would mean the problem is distal, SSR, boiler, etc. If the PID light on means brew boiler is off, the problem is proximal; PID. However, one note is that when the steam boiler is engaged, the PID light remains lit.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Not familiar with the machine but I believe there are re-settable limit stats on top of boilers, worth a try ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Is it new?


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Brand new. Worked well for 2 weeks. I don't think the limit stat tripped. (just to confirm, on top of the boiler in between the 2 spades is a small brownish knob that protrudes? This in the 'pushed' position).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just a stupid thought.....is there plenty of water in the reservoir. Thinking that for some reason the boiler is not pulling water through. Try lifting and jiggling the reservoir and making sure it is full. Switch off the machine and back on. The first thing they normally do is auto top up the boiler


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Reservoir switch is engaged and the machine starts up. I pull the brew lever down and the pump starts with water coming out of the group head. I even added a hint of salt to the water to add electrolytes just in case my water is too soft. Still no improvement.

No ideas are stupid







I appreciate it all to help me trouble shot. Looks like Gaggia is back on until I can fix this. I'm just afraid of having to send the machine back for repair.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'd contact the seller before trying anything yourself.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

That's probably the best advice. Only problem is if they want me to send it back, how do I do in view of throwing away the box. I live in a tiny flat and the box was huge







so had no choice.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Where did you get it from?


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Espresso Machines in Holland. If I need to ship it back, shipping will be about 15 quid on DPD (up to 30kg).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

mrmike1 said:


> Espresso Machines in Holland. If I need to ship it back, shipping will be about 15 quid on DPD (up to 30kg).


I hope you are right! I do not know of any UK couriers who will do 30 kilos for £15.....and even if they do that will not have insurance, in which case you would be mad to trust it. Of course, you may have access to an account with better terms,


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

We have sent packages to my parents in Poland before for a similar price. Tracking number and collection from your door, with insurance. I don't have any special accounts.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Speak to them, they might give you the all clear to open it up and fanny about, suggest a fix, arrange someone to pick it up or give you access to their account and get it shipped for a reasonable price.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Email sent to seller. Good thing I didn't sell my trusty Gaggia lol









I'll keep the group up to date with what seller says. I suspect it has something to do with the PID controller as the SSR does not light up.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Stupid question maybe







have you checked the temp what the PID is set at, press down button on PID, Prg will be diplayed, immediately press right button will show temp.

I am aware that when desperation sets in you try anything.

Ian


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I checked the PID and it is indeed set to 96c. I tried different temps as well just as 90, to 100c, but still no change in the problem.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

That was fast. Seller responded









He suggested it might be a loose connection. Now awaiting further response.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

If you have a multimeter, test for continuity across the element terminals. Sounds like it's dead to me.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I need to buy one and learn how to use. If its worth anything, the volt alter pen (the one that lights up if theres a volt) lit up on all contacts of the boiler leads. However, for the SSR, it didn't light up on the white output lead.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

If your getting power on 3 terminals of the SSR but not the 4th then that sounds like a broken SSR to me.


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

This sounds like something that happened on mine.. after a long-ish period of both sides being switched on (mostly I just use the brew side for myself), the brew side would not issue any water. Pump was sounding fine.

I decided to work on the principle that everything had got warm enough for water to have evaporated, leading to an airlock.

Several, and I mean probably a couple of dozen, times of operating the head lever so as to prime the pump, all worked fine and there's been no repeat.

Worth a try for nothing..

Best of luck either way!


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I'm not sure if the SSR is opening the switch hence no power in lead 3. I swapped it with another SSR, same problem. I'd be unlucky to have 2 broken SSRs.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Water pump is working. It self primes when it needs to as well. Just no heated water from the brew side. The steam gets hot.

Any miliage in shorting contacts on the SSR? Might be dangerous but if heater works than the problem is SSR or PID. Hmmm might be a switch problem as well.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Why don't you check all the PID settings, it might be that the PID is in a mode where its running the steam boiler, but not the steam boiler. There are a number of those Gicar PID variants in the field and they are all subtely different. If I remember rightly at one time they were using an older one, those had the ability to switch the steam boiler off by holding the right hand arrow button (then off showed in the display). If you had a bad connection, you would usually get an error message. There are 6 error codes I think for those PIDs (A1 - A6).

The obvious things to check of course are (with a multimeter).

1. Is power getting to the heating element

2. The resistance of the heating element

3. The wiring to the limit stat (visual check)

As for changing SSRs and voltage pens, you're just confusing yourself with the incorrect tools for the job. There can be many causes of machine failure, and it's often better to look at the simplest ones first.

*First check all the settings of the PID, in fact why not list them on here....as there are some PID modes that only switch on the steam boiler....specifically those under the F02 parameter e.g. F02=3 would be steam boiler operation only!*


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I'll buy a multimeter and do it right. Will have one for tomorrow.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mrmike1 said:


> I'll buy a multimeter and do it right. Will have one for tomorrow.


What about the comment in bold..PID settings?


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I will post PID setting when I get home. However a look yesterday showed everything was intact.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Hi All, just got back from work.

I checked the PID they they are stock. P 1.00, I 0.01, D 2.0 and offset is 10. I use the switch to turn the steam boiler on and off. Steam heats up but not brew. When steam comes to full pressure, brewtus should switch to brew heating, the red light stops working but no heat.

How do I get into the f02 settings? When I push the up arrow, it "turns off" the brew boiler and says 'off' but the brew boiler was never on to begin with.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mrmike1 said:


> Hi All, just got back from work.
> 
> I checked the PID they they are stock. P 1.00, I 0.01, D 2.0 and offset is 10. I use the switch to turn the steam boiler on and off. Steam heats up but not brew. When steam comes to full pressure, brewtus should switch to brew heating, the red light stops working but no heat.
> 
> How do I get into the f02 settings? When I push the up arrow, it "turns off" the brew boiler and says 'off' but the brew boiler was never on to begin with.


Press and hold both buttons and switch on the machine, the software revision will show, and then the PID will enter programming mode.

Pressing the left hand button cycles through the various parameters from top to bottom and loops back to the top

Pressing the right hand button once briefly displays the setting (value) associated with any particular parameter, if no further button presses are made for a few seconds, the display reverts back to showing the parameter


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I have an update.

I bought the multimeter and measured across the SSR leads that power the boiler. I have 250V across the leads that go to the boiler. When I measured with the multimeter, the boiler started heating. When I measured the SSR leads between the PID and the SSR, I got no power. Also, the SSR light does not turn on.

Now I know the problem is proximal, either the SSR or the PID output to the SSR. I swapped the SSR out yesterday for an old one that I had lying around and it didn't fix the problem. Unlikely that two are broken.

Sounds like the PID or the PID boiler/brew switch that is broken. What do you guys think and how could I test my hypothesis?

In the mean time, I will make sure there are no loose connections.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mrmike1 said:


> I have an update.
> 
> I bought the multimeter and measured across the SSR leads that power the boiler. I have 250V across the leads that go to the boiler. When I measured with the multimeter, the boiler started heating. When I measured the SSR leads between the PID and the SSR, I got no power. Also, the SSR light does not turn on.
> 
> ...


You've totally lost me on what you have actually measured and apparently when you started measuring the boiler then started heating????

Why don't you do what I asked you to and tell me what the F02 Parameter of your PID is set to, by entering the setup mode as I explained?


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I already posted the f02 settings. What I didn't realize is that menu was called f02.



mrmike1 said:


> Hi All, just got back from work.
> 
> I checked the PID they they are stock. P 1.00, I 0.01, D 2.0 and offset is 10. I use the switch to turn the steam boiler on and off. Steam heats up but not brew. When steam comes to full pressure, brewtus should switch to brew heating, the red light stops working but no heat.
> 
> How do I get into the f02 settings? When I push the up arrow, it "turns off" the brew boiler and says 'off' but the brew boiler was never on to begin with.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

See attached picture. I'm moving the water tube out of the way and not touching the SSR while being plugged in to the mains.

There is 250v between L1 and T1. When I first used the multimeter, I used the 10a 600v setting and nothing showed on the multimeter. The boiler started heating, I suspect I shorted the lead somehow.

There is 0V between A2 and A1. The SSR light doesn't work either.

The problem lies between SSR and PID. Is there a way to test which is not working? If I power A2 and A1, assuming the SSR works, the relay should open.

Sorry for not using technical words.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Attached photo is Gicar PID. I'm trying to find online which ports goto the SSR. Once established, I can measure to see if PID is powering the SSR.

Or could I just assume if there is no power over the SSR that the PID is sending power to the SSR and infact the PID is broken?


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I suspect the blue and top white leads connect to the SSR. I checked and there is no V between these two. I think the PID is broken.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mike, what you posted are NOT the F02 settings...but I give up!

If you feel inclined to get into the more advanced menu of you PID, I suspect the F02 setting may be for steam boiler only operation...which is an option for that PID. Nothing will show in the display when it's in that mode except for the solid dot.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Thanks Dave for fast reply.

I've done what you said in the earlier post. Push both buttons on PID while turning machine switch on. After a few seconds, I have f03 and f04. I can pick between C/F, P, I, D, and offset. There isn't anything else in that menu. When I push the right button on the PID, it turns brew boiler off and PID says off. When I push it again, it shows the temp in the boiler. The machine has a second external switch which turns the steam boiler on and off.

I'm really confused now since I can't access f02. Please don't get frustrated with me.


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## r.bartlett (Jun 22, 2014)

mrmike1 said:


> See attached picture. I'm moving the water tube out of the way and not touching the SSR while being plugged in to the mains.
> 
> There is 250v between L1 and T1. When I first used the multimeter, I used the 10a 600v setting and nothing showed on the multimeter. The boiler started heating, I suspect I shorted the lead somehow.
> 
> ...


A1- A2 are the control terminals.

T1 - L1 are the power terminal.s

You had voltage between T1-L1 because it's back feeding to neutral through the boiler element to give you the 240v reading.

When operational there will be no voltage across them because they both become live terminals.

If you try L1 to N and T 1 to N you will see one will be 240v and one 0v (0v will be wire to boiler )

If you have no voltage across A1 and A2 then the issue is not the SSR but the control feed from the PID.

IE the PID is not sending control voltage to the relay.


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## r.bartlett (Jun 22, 2014)

mrmike1 said:


> I suspect the blue and top white leads connect to the SSR. I checked and there is no V between these two. I think the PID is broken.


Just confirm there is 230v going into the PID but not on the out terminal.

I can't quite see the PID properly but it looks like

bottom terminal - L in

next up - N in + N to SSR (?)

3rd up - L link from bottom L

4th up - L feed to SSR

test

1 double white and double blue = 230v

2 3rd up white to double blue = 230v

3 4th up white to double blue =?

It is possible you have lost a N somewhere of course so on the SSR check white to N


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mrmike1 said:


> Thanks Dave for fast reply.
> 
> I've done what you said in the earlier post. Push both buttons on PID while turning machine switch on. After a few seconds, I have f03 and f04. I can pick between C/F, P, I, D, and offset. There isn't anything else in that menu. When I push the right button on the PID, it turns brew boiler off and PID says off. When I push it again, it shows the temp in the boiler. The machine has a second external switch which turns the steam boiler on and off.
> 
> I'm really confused now since I can't access f02. Please don't get frustrated with me.


I guess it's possible they had the firmware changed to not have those options as the Brewtus is wired quite specifically and wouldn't appreciate the boiler priorities being changed. I am however concerned that it's something very simple and your going very deep into the problem? look for the very simple things first.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Expobar said they will send a new PID. Hopefully that solves the problem.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Fingers-crossed for you. Must be a bit gutted having to do anything like this on a brand new machine after a fair outlay. Know I would be.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

who is dying to say the perils of buying from the continent......it is a bit like going to India and buying a Boycott curry......you still get the runs, just more slowly......


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> it is a bit like going to India and buying a Boycott curry......you still get the runs, just more slowly......


You're so funny dfk41!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> who is dying to say the perils of buying from the continent......it is a bit like going to India and buying a Boycott curry......you still get the runs, just more slowly......


If it was a UK seller the OP still wouldn't have his box and there would still be the shipping issue


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## Flaminglip (Feb 2, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> If it was a UK seller the OP still wouldn't have his box and there would still be the shipping issue


And his wallet would be about £300 lighter.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

you pays your money and takes your choice,but the point is, if this was a problem that demanded a return to base it would have been costly......and if as jeebsy says, the op had no box (i always keep mine) he would have additional problems


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

And if yer maw had baws she'd be yer da, as we say


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

not really jeebsy.....if you buy something like a grinder/machine and throw away the box then your ma may as well be your da


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

jeebsy said:


> And if yer maw had baws she'd be yer da, as we say


Do you actually say that?!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's a bit playground but it can be useful to show the futility of hypothetical situtations.

Yer maw's got baws and yer da loves it is a similar one (inasmuch as it involves one's mum, one's dad and some testicales)


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Interesting.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

PID in the mail. If this works, don't have to send the machine back.


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

PID came. That was fast. I hope it works.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

mrmike1 said:


> PID came. That was fast. I hope it works.


They probably had a faulty one in stock and sent it to keep you quiet for a few weeks.....


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> They probably had a faulty one in stock and sent it to keep you quiet for a few weeks.....


Both funny and not funny depending on if you're mrmike1 or not!


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

No box-

Seller from Holland-

But fixed within a week from emailing seller. Had to do a bit myself but for now the machine works!

Thanks to the seller and for all you here that supported me through the ordeal!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Was it a dodgy pid?


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

I think so. No signal to SSR. Replacing it fixed the problem.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Really glad you got it fixed, and you got good support from abroad


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Update: still working good. Despite the hickup it's a very well built machine that produces excellent coffee! Thanks to all the mentors/ friends of the site that helped me fix it


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## Gander24 (Apr 11, 2015)

Good effort, technically, i was lost about post 5/6! Glad its sorted!!


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## mrmike1 (May 3, 2014)

Sorry about that. I lack technical language skills


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## Gander24 (Apr 11, 2015)

No, you done well following, i wouldn't have had a clue! Id struggle to take the lid off the thing. Electronics is defo not a strong point of mine!!!


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