# Dumb questions - #1



## Saftlad (Nov 12, 2013)

Ok, I'm getting my Mignon dialled in, gone through a ton of beans but it will be worth it.

My first dumb question for tonight is whether it is better to grind find and tamp light, or grind coarse and tamp hard? Does it make a difference to the taste, assuming the pour remains at ~25-30 seconds?

Dumb Question #2

On a Classic should I dose a double-basket sufficiently to get a slight imprint of the shower screen or is that over-dosing?

Thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Saftlad said:


> Ok, I'm getting my Mignon dialled in, gone through a ton of beans but it will be worth it.
> 
> My first dumb question for tonight is whether it is better to grind find and tamp light, or grind coarse and tamp hard? Does it make a difference to the taste, assuming the pour remains at ~25-30 seconds?
> 
> ...


Hi if you haven't already get some scales, set a dose 16g say, stick to it til you get your grinder dialled in

. Weight your basket with the coffee in to to get accurate dose each time . Don't dose by eye , as this will take longer for you to dial in. For example the difference between choking the machine could be 0.5 g in dose .

So a dose and move your grind and tamp spring it to get the extraction you want .

Most of us weight the output when dialling in.

Example 16g in 24-26 g out in weight .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Re dumb questions 1 - try it see if there is a difference, but it's probably more useful to find a tamp technique that your repeat each time

re dosing ,I'd do it by weight as a said previously


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## Saftlad (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm dosing to 17g with scales, just trying to keep it constant. I've read of people dosing to the point of getting a little imprint from the shower screen after removal and keeping it there. My pucks coming off looking like a storm-driven sea. No wormholes, no imprints, no cracks. I've done the opv mod using a gauge - it's now set to 10bar, down from 16bar!

The coffee just seems bitter.

my next step is to try the cup set ie 15s in a cup, next 5 in a different cup etc, then adding them one by one til I get the right taste. My palate is probably also very questionable....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Saftlad said:


> I'm dosing to 17g with scales, just trying to keep it constant. I've read of people dosing to the point of getting a little imprint from the shower screen after removal and keeping it there. My pucks coming off looking like a storm-driven sea. No wormholes, no imprints, no cracks. I've done the opv mod using a gauge - it's now set to 10bar, down from 16bar!
> 
> The coffee just seems bitter.
> 
> my next step is to try the cup set ie 15s in a cup, next 5 in a different cup etc, then adding them one by one til I get the right taste. My palate is probably also very questionable....


Ok cool, so your scales measure to 0.1 g ?

Are the beans fresh ?

Are you temp surfing ( you have a classic I think ? )

Bitterness is more likely a function of the temperature during extraction being too high . Perhaps flush a little more off before extracting. The water shouldn't be fizzing and steaming in the flush .

Or it's the grind meaning your extracting to slow , but seems like your getting a reasonable ratio in a decent time . So more likely the former .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Plus are the beans fresh and are you temp surfing at all. ( you have a classic ? ) .

cheers


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## Saftlad (Nov 12, 2013)

Beans are fresh (dated with the past fortnight and not opened until being used). Scales measure to 0.1g, dosing to 17.0g currently.

I probably haven't been surfing effectively, as I've just been flushing until the ready light goes off and waiting until it comes back on then waiting a further 20 seconds.

What is the recommended method, would I be just as good investing in a Sesto PID setup which I think comes in around £30 plus fitting?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I've not used a gaggia to temp surf but if you sue the search on here or look on the gaggia forum on where , there will be plenty of info .

Given your using scales and dosing to 0.1 g then I think that's your your taste flaws are comings from.

Trying surfing techniques before buying a pid see got you get on .


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Hi Saftlad

I replied to you re temp surfing and WDT. As I mentioned when I first started out my shots were all over the place due to poor distribution. If you're using a Gaggia standard size non pressurised basket then 16g dose is not a bad start. Stirring the grind in the PF using WDT is worth doing (see YouTube)

weigh the shot output too.

it might be worth videoing you shot prep and the shot pouring.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The finer you grind the more 'fines' will be produced and will result in much slower shots, so if you wanted to maintain the same flow-rate and shot time you'd need to decrease dose. You would also be changing the TDS of the resulting coffee, so most likely both mouthfeel and flavour would likely change.

To keep it simple I would opt for a medium tamp pressure then stick with it all the time - learning the muscle memory, then varying grind. It removes a variable which you dont need at this stage of your espresso making skill-set. Focus on a straight level tamp down and no downwards pressure whilst polishing.


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## tictok (Dec 1, 2013)

For me the type of bean makes a huge difference (obviously!).

I have a Mignon Eureka too, and what I mean is that I need to grind finer or coarser depending upon the variety of bean to get the mouth feel and flavour I want.

This sometimes results in a quicker poor for a more robust coffee bean, but it's too bitter otherwise and I don't get the velvety feel...

It that scenario my tamping is relatively consistent, but I also wonder is I should lower the difference between grind levels and tamp lighter or heavier (depending upon bean) instead...

I haven't aimed for a specific pour time (i.e 25 - 30 seconds) for a long time, but just try to find grind level and tamp pressure that gets a result I like.

7 years in and still finding my way, learning every day.


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