# Help me with my new Cherub?



## murrayaw

I've been enjoying getting to grips with my new stainless steel Cherub bought via http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/ (The service was very personal and good although Fracino were very busy so the lead time slipped a bit)

As I have used the machine more and more I have noticed that it is getting harder to create a tight seal between the portafilter and the group head. I am having to push the handle a little further to the right to stop overflow of hot water when the pump is activated and extraction begins. It's not a major problem but the handle is now off centre by about 10-15 degrees and I am a bit concerned about damage. Do I need to be concerned and/or is there a simple remedy that anyone out there knows?

Any help gratefully received.

BTW the coffee is great and getting better and my Cherub is invariably admired by envious visitors!


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## coffeechap

Get a grinder to get the best out of that machine


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## Eyedee

coffeechap said:


> Get a grinder to get the best out of that machine


I spy with my little eye------oh an MC2 in the back corner

Ian


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## fatboyslim

You might need the 8.5mm gasket. Try to get one from the seller.


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## coffeechap

Eyedee said:


> I spy with my little eye------oh an MC2 in the back corner
> 
> Ian


Like I said get a great grinder to get the best out of the machine


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## vikingboy

8.5 mm gasket will fix it.

also, take pf off at night to let seal relax.

guys above are right re grinder, look at a vario etc to elevate coffee.


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## coffeechap

Or push the boat out and get a proper commercial grinder, will fit under that unit if you run it without a hopper


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## fatboyslim

That Cherub looks slightly different to mine.

Does it have a 50th Anniversary badge on it?


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## Callum_T

That cherub is a looker! - new gauge position and a different dial to mine.

Out of curiosity is the drip tray any deeper my one on my stainless machine is stupidly shallow.

A larger gasket is all you'll need to remedy the pf engagement angle also.


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## gman147

fatboyslim said:


> That Cherub looks slightly different to mine.
> 
> Does it have a 50th Anniversary badge on it?


Mine has the 50th badge.


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## murrayaw

Callum_T said:


> Out of curiosity is the drip tray any deeper my one on my stainless machine is stupidly shallow


It's not too bad as I am not making masses of coffee. From semi pro use I suspect it might be a pain. I it were deeper a new design would be needed in order to slide it out easily as it is quite tight already.


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## murrayaw

It does indeed.


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## shrink

good looking machine







you'll enjoy it.

I have an MC2 as well, and currently borrowing someone elses vario. I will say that the MC2 can be bettered and the Cherub can take advantage of that improvement. It deserves a top notch grinder


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## coffeechap

You have pushed the boat out on the machine, that grinder is your weakest link and will only serve to give mediocre shots at best, investing in a quality grinder is an absolute must for hx machines


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## gman147

I second that. When I got my SJ as an upgrade from my MC2, the quality and consistency of the grind is far superior. You can even eyeball the grinds at the bottom of the cup, they are all uniform in size. The taste of the shot was instantly more smooth and the various notes from the bean were much more apparent.

I concur with Coffeechap, you want to upgrade that grinder since you have such a good machine!


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## coffeebean

Hi Murray! Just seen your thread! Bigger gasket would definitely sort the problem out - give me a shout if you want me to get one for you. Shouldn't have this problem so soon though so if you would like me to have a chat with Fracino for you, let me know and I'll see what I can sort out!

Andy


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## murrayaw

fatboyslim said:


> That Cherub looks slightly different to mine.
> 
> Does it have a 50th Anniversary badge on it?


Yes. It is a fine looking machine. And is producing very fine coffee.


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## shrink

Glad you're enjoying it


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## murrayaw

Thanks Andy.

It isn't a problem as the machine is producing excellent coffee - especially as my skills improve! I was just mildly worried that I was doing some harm. Happy to try a solution if Fracino or you feel it is an issue.

You were right . It was worth the wait


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## jimbow

With use, group gaskets tend to give a bit so that you have to turn the portafilter handle slightly further in order to create a seal. This is not necessarily a problem providing the gasket itself is still soft and able to create a proper seal. Over time, the rubber the gasket is made from may grow hard and stop making a good seal. In this case, the gasket should be replaced. Depending upon usage, this usually happens every 1-2 years - how long have you had yours? Also, as recommended above, I would suggest that the portafilter is only engaged very loosely in the group when not in use and removed entirely when the machine is switched off. This should prolong the life of the gasket and give the rubber a chance to relax after being under pressure.


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## Shakey

Fracino provided me with an 8.5 mm gasket but I found the problem settled down and I have yet to fit it!


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## Shakey

Hi coffeechap,

Interested in your comments here.

I also have a Cherub running it alongside an Ascaso I-Mini Non-Doser(250) grinder.

This grinder, although fairly basic, seems to do the job well with the main disadvantage being changing settings is slow.

Before I upgrade I need to understand the science of how exactly a 'better' grinder will improve my coffee.

Any help appreciated.


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## vikingboy

I returned my Ascaso i-2 grinder after a few days primarily because of constant channeling visible under the naked filter.

If I ground finer it would just hydro-lock the puck, anything coarser than this setting resulted in channeling and spritzers.

All the problems went away when I moved to a better quality grinder.

If you arent using a naked PF, you wont notice the issues but my guess is they are there hidden by the spouts.

The taste of my coffee ground through the vario is much richer with added notes to the coffee over the flat tasting Ascaso.

The HG-One takes this up another notch over my vario which is now relegated to grinding when we have lots of friends over.

People said it numerous times but the grinder is the key to good tasting coffee.


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## Shakey

Many thanks vikingboy.

I've always appreciated the grinder is the key but I still can't understand exactly how one grinder leads to channelling and another doesn't.

I have experienced the 'spritzer' effect right enough.

The HG-One looks a design classic though - one for the purists.


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## Glenn

The handle angle not being dead centre is not an issue providing you get a seal. You will find that as the gasket wears in you will need to move further to the right.

Keep hold of the new seal and don't be in any hurry to fit unnecessarily


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## Shakey

Will do,

Many thanks.


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## coffeechap

Hi my input for what's it is worth is that the more you can invest in the grinder, the better the output, your system is only as good as its weakest link, and contrary to a lot of people out there I think the key to a top notch espresso is absolutely the grinder. Glen will testify that when you pair even a gaggia classic to a good grinder the results can be fantastic. The principles that I stand by remain fairly consistent. The bigger the burrs, the bigger the motor means a slower spin speed leading to much more consistency and a cooler temperature. This results in a release of flavours that mediocre grinders just struggle to do.

The HG1 is testament to this, if you are prepared for the hands on approach to grinding, the big conical burr set will produce amazing results especially from a mid price point hx machine.


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## Shakey

All makes sense. Much to consider....

Thanks again.

(Off to Glencoe will decide on return!)


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## fatboyslim

Definitely consider a big Mazzer Major or Mazzer Royal if you can pick one up second hand.

The big flat burrs produce a very nice grind and can be picked up for less than a new Vario


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## gman147

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?9984-FS-Nuova-Simonelli-MDX-commercial-Grinder


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## Callum_T

Shakey said:


> (Off to Glencoe will decide on return!)


Glencoe you say, what where you doing there I should have been at the national downhill round at Fort William this current weekend just past (bit off-topic)


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## Shakey

Mountain Rescue - we were gathering at the Kings House to build a monument to a colleague we lost a few years ago.


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## gman147

coffeechap said:


> Or push the boat out and get a proper commercial grinder, will fit under that unit if you run it without a hopper


I agree, forget the vario, get a real good grinder as the cherub is too good to match with a vario. I doubt the vario is much better than the MC2 in relative step-up terms for your money. Get a commercial second hand grinder for same money as Coffeechap says then you will get the best from the Cherub.


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## fatboyslim

Agreed but I have noticed a bit of inconsistency with my SJ. Only a little bit but enough to make me ponder.

I tried filling up the throat with beans rather than single dosing and found this improved grind quality 39.4%!!!

Anyone else do this with an SJ?


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## gman147

I use a plastic tamper thats rests on top and pushes the beans down and also stops the pop-corning.

All my inconsistencies vanished when I put in the new official mazzer burrs. The grind quality is so much more superior to the after market ones.


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## shrink

largely i've found grinder just simply work better when theres a mass of beans pushing down. a tamper can only reproduce that to an extent, since eventually you'll run out of beans to hold the tamper up and still will have some grinding left to do.

Its why I like grinders that have very small hoppers (such as this Quamar that I'm considering buying) or the smallest one available on a mazzer mini.

if you're keeping your beans fresh enough, I see absolutely no harm in having 1-2 days worth of beans in a very small hopper, which gets topped up as the level drops. I did it with the commercial grinder i've been playing with, and the shots were as good at the end of day 2 as they were on day 1.

A small hopper and a doserless chute are ideal for my needs


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## gman147

Problem with that idea for me is that I single dose. Once dialled in, I weigh 18g of beans, put in grinder and grind 18g out, tamp and time to 28 secs. This is a very quick no fuss way which I prefer. If I change beans or sense a taste change, I'll do a quick re-check with output (g) @ x1.6. But all in all, single dosing with my beautifully modified SJ works a treat and is a joy to use. No clumps either.


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## garydyke1

Single dosing versus full hopper and (setting a timed output) both have pro's and cons. Generally grind settings will differ slightly for each scenario and you tend to adapt technique and routine around either one. Both work









Ive noticed (certainly on e61 machines) that single dosed shots need to be slightly finer on grind, and, tend to blond sooner . This is mitigated by reverting to line pressure for the last few seconds of the shot & there is no easily recognisable taste difference.

A timed output on a full hopper can be inconsistant , which is where single dosing excels = repeatability


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## coffeechap

Will be interesting for me o see the difference when I modify the major with a timer, I will still use the micro hopper with it but this still kolos around 75 gramms so sufficient to prevent popcorning. I only ever leave around 100 grams in the mythos and don't really get any deviation in output unless I get near to finishing the beans and I love the fact that using the timer as very accurate. I think that utilising the timer on the bigger burr grinders i.e major and royal will be better than on the smaller burr grinders. Like I said I will present my findings once the auberins arrive.


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