# A lurker who needs help ;)



## Zenistar (Aug 31, 2014)

Ok so I'm a long time lurker but the time has come where I need some advice. I'm close to springing for a home espresso machine and grinder to replace my current setup, consisting of:


Nespresso machine for quick and easy coffee (mostly for my wife) that has simply entered the house due to the sheer popularity of the devices in Swizterland where we live.

Hario ceramic handgrinder that is used in conjunction with either a french press or a Aeropress.


There are a few limitations that I have to contend with when replacing the Nespresso machine:


Counter space is really at an absolute premium in our kitchen, 65cm is the absolute max I can use and keep the other half happy, preferably this would be closer to 50cm.

Any new machine combo has to be relatively foolproof to use to a decent standard, my wife is willing to learn but will not go as far as to micro manage the production of an espresso shot, as long as she gets something that is nicely drinkable.

The production process has to be as clean as possible, lets just say there is a neat freak in the house.


On top of this I have some requirements:


The grinder should (not absolutely essential) be able to replace my Hario to grind for a press

A double boiler is essential


To give an idea of usage volume, during the week the setup would be used each morning for me to make a coffee to take with me on the train and then maybe in the evening after dinner for a couple of shots. At the weekends, it would generally be used to make cappuccinos for breakfast and then shots throughout the day.

I've been looking at the Lelit PL60PLUST as this seems to meet the requirements of being relatively small at 30cm wide but with double boiler, PID etc and I've been looking at the Baratza (Mahlkonig / Ditting as it is called over here) Vario or Vario W.

First of all for the Lelit, i don't find that many reviews of the machines around, certainly not of the PL60PLUST and that kind of worries me. What would be your recommendation of machine given the constraints above?

Second for the grinder, I'm favoring the standard Vario over the two as the Vario W seems to come with steel burrs rather than ceramic and I keep reading about static problems. Is there any significant advantage in taking the W over the standard as I only see drawbacks (steel burr as mentioned, can not grind directly to portafilter) yet people raving about the W in reviews. Also, is it really worth getting the Vario to be able to grind occasionally for a press (maybe once a week max) or would the grind be significantly better by choosing something like the Mazzer Mini doserless?

Thanks in advance.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not think we are familiar with your machine of choice and wonder where you would get one in the UK. It seems very close to this

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-machines/coffee-makers/thermo-block/quik-mill-silvano-espresso-machine.html

and this retailer will give you a 2 year warranty on your machine, and they stock plenty. The steel burred Varios are really for brew only and will not grind fine enough for espresso. The espresso version has ceramic burrs.

Mixed thoughts on here. Many people love them, some hate them. In essence, not many grinders successfully switch from brewed to espresso and do both well, in that price point. You may be better selecting a grinder for espresso and keeping your hand kit for brewed. Set a budget and tell us and if your preference is new or second hand. The Vario and Mignon are two that spring to mind


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## Zenistar (Aug 31, 2014)

Thanks Dfk41, my budget is 2000 franks which is £1300 but I could stretch that to £1650 at a push.

The Lelit machine over here costs 1300 franks or £850, so if I stuck with that I'm left with £450 to £800 for a grinder. Keeping the hand kit for brewed is not an issue, I'm used to using it and it takes the same amount of time to hand grind as it does to wait for the kettle


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I've got a Vario.

How much is the Vario-W? Last time I checked it was substantially more just for the weighing function, which I consider too much when you see it in the flesh. I rarely get any static issues with the ceramic burrs, and retention is really low which is good. I Would not recommend constantly changing grinds as it doesn't seem to like it (like most grinders), I use my Hario mill too for brewed.

If it is cheaper and you can get it there I'd look at the Eurkea Mignon, small footprint and cheaper (here in UK at least) than the Vario.

You could also take a look at the Fracino range of machines, they should meet your size and cost specifications.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Just to add,

Dont forget the tamper! You don't need to spend loads, but you do need something better than the stupid plastic thingy.

The coffee - if you are just buying your beans from the supermarket you won't see much improvement over the nespresso, although there should be a bit. Buy fresh from a local roaster and use it up quickly then reorder to get the most out of your new setup, it really makes all the difference.

Sorry if you already know the above


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## Zenistar (Aug 31, 2014)

Thanks for the pointers Aaron, the difference between the standard Vario and the W version is about £130 over here. I've just checked and the Mignon can be picked up for just above the same price as the standard Vario.

I won't forget the tamper







and there are at least two local roasters where I order on the Monday, the beans are roasted and shipped out by mail on the Wednesday to arrive on the Thursday.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Over here you can get the Mignon for about £280 and the Vario for £350 so it's a nice little saving.

Can you go see them both in action, do a bit of grinding or is it mail order only?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm going to suggest something rather controversial here that would satisfy both you and your wife and her need for ease of use and lack of mess it's the Sage Oracle, for you it has all the bells and whistles you could want when used in manual mode and when used in auto mode it will grind and tamp straight into the portafilter you then simply put the portafilter on the group and pour the shot whilst doing this the machine will also steam and texture your milk to your liking automatically- just put the jug under the steamwand. If at some point for your purposes the grinder won't do the job buy a seprate one for you to use and let your wife keep using the built in one.

The machines dimensions are 37 x 50 x 45 cms so fits right inside your space needs too.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It's got a cak grinder though


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> It's got a cak grinder though


I'm not sure I'd recommend say AN other dual boiler machine ( brewt , rocket , etc ) and pair it with a sage smart grinder but there you go...

It's this one for clarity

http://www.sageappliances.co.uk/the-oracle.html


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

There is a link in post Martin







it's why the words Sage Oracle are in a different colour.

My thoughts in suggesting it were ease of use and lack of mess for the OP's wife and could be used in manual mode for him, and it's no biggie to get a better grinder for his use if needed. If ease of use is a crucial factor then a Sage Dual Boiler and a decent grinder and pre-programme one of the volumetric buttons for her use and she could even use pre-ground with the dual wall baskets.

One thing I would suggest that again regarding the ease of use element a Mignon is definitely not the grinder to go for with it's clump delivering nature and I couldn't recommend a Vario to anyone given the sheer amount of posts we receive on here and the other forums also seem to get these issues of the wandering grind settings. Something that is an on demand grinder with a decent and easy to set timed delivery system would be the best bet, again budget will determine recommendations.


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