# SM Red Brick problems



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Just received my first batch of RM coffees and have spent 10 shots dialling in the grind to get the correct pour, but what is being produced is sour and nasty. Have experimented with temperatures 92-98, but it still tastes like shit.

Thoughts anyone?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I assume you have the new updated 2 bean blend? The older one didn't get great feedback on a consistent basis so they changed it.

.....only speaking from experience with the previous iteration (which was a 3 bean blend)

I struggled at first with sourness and overpowering lime acidity..in the end down-dosed by 1.5g and ground much finer (aiming for the same volume)..this increased the sweetness and caramel/choc elements. Also knocked the temp up 1 deg too.

Never got an 'amazing' shot tho tbh...getting on much better with St Ali 'Cult Of Done'..much more forgiving and a broader band of variable still give tasty results.


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## stavros (May 4, 2011)

I've enjoyed the second incarnation of Red Brick much more than the first. I did buy it with trepidation after the first bag dulled so quickly, but I'm only about 3 cups off finish the latest bag and it has kept it's taste well. It was best after 4 days post roast iirc, prior to this the limey acidity was overpowering. I've got this bang on now, I pull it quite tight, 18g coffee for 27 seconds resulting in 30g drink weight. Tasty!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I think it is just too young. Roasted on Monday, and I think it needs another 4 days.


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

Just thought I'd drop in to hopefully help and answer a few questions:

- The Red Brick changed because we ran out of those components, as expected, after a couple of months. This version will last about 3 months total, maybe a little less.

(We didn't receive any real negative feedback from wholesale customers, though a barista working may have misunderstood the impetus behind the change.)

- As for your problems - if you are ever having issue with the coffee then feel free to contact us directly. To try and help I need to ask a couple more questions:

What machine/basket are you using?

How much are you dosing in?

How much liquid (weight) are you getting out?

How long is the brew taking?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Now that's what I call excellent customer service!


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## Fran (Dec 27, 2010)

MikeHag said:


> Now that's what I call excellent customer service!


.......STOP PRESS.......STOP PRESS.......JAMES HOFFMANN BREAKS INTERNET HIATUS AT COFFEEFORUMS.CO.UK......

Joking aside, SQM have superb customer service - a bag got lost in the post recently, and SQM are resending it today, despite Royal Mail saying it was delivered. SQM employee Flick was really really helpful, and if her boss ever happened to read this *cough*, I would strongly recommend she gets a little extra in her Christmas bonus!

Also, hello again everyone - I know I've been away from here recently, but I'm back now


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Hehe! Welcome back Fran. No more silly antics!!


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## Fran (Dec 27, 2010)

I have NO IDEA what you're talking about.... *limps to the kitchen*


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

Fran said:


> if her boss ever happened to read this *cough*, I would strongly recommend she gets a little extra in her Christmas bonus!


Noted! Flick is (as agreed by everyone at SQM) awesome!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Hello James

It's an Expobarista Leva Dual boiler with PID. Dose 18g, 25 (ish) sec pour for 1oz shot.

Other coffees are producing decent shots. (apart from the SM CoE same roast date, which is also sour tasting )

Hoping another 4 days in the fridge will sort it.


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

These coffees generally need a little bit more water/volume in the shot to extract properly, which may be why you are getting the sourness. Are these roasts lighter than the coffees you usually brew or similar?

If you have some scales hand I would recommend an output of around 30-32g of liquid from the 18g in, with a slightly slower shot time (maybe 28s).

The coffees here are pretty dense (the CoE and the Red Brick), so are a little harder to extract when pulling shorter shots. If that doesn't help then let me know and we'll sort something else.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks James.

Yes, these are much lighter roasts than I normally go for, and I'd noticed the dense grind. Choked the machine a couple of times before I got a reasonable pull. Will try your advice tomorrow (don't fancy a sleepless night tonight). A slower pull might mean a bit finer grind, no? Although you are suggesting a bigger output.

The beans smell like they are going to give me the taste I am after, I'm a little bored of dark roast, so I'm keen to get these beans nailed.

(by way of mitigating circumstances, this is a new machine to me so I'm not entirely used to its ways)


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Tried again this morning and both shots went in the sink, so I made a cup of filter with it instead, but coarse ground obviously. First few sips and it tasted like coffee that hadn't rested, very little flavour, but after sitting in the cup for a few minutes I quite liked it, very subtle.

I'm stumped by this. Im 2/3 of the way through a bag and not one shot has been drinkable. Much much coarser grind needed maybe?


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

I'm not doing well with Red Brick v2 either. It was easy to get great shots with v1 - their suggested reference recipe was bang on for me - but with v2 I just don't have it nailed down yet. I've gone up and down in temperature and I think I have that about right, and I've gotten some improvement by updosing (currently 21g in the VST 20), but I'm still finding greatness to be elusive with this one.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Well I guess all publicity is good publicity cos now I'm keen to give the blend a try once the Christmas post get's back to normal.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Well, be curious to see if you can make it work.

I've got a bag of Bella Barista italia creme on the go, which is a good solid Italian bar style coffee and very undemanding. I actually like that taste very much. My gut feeling with the Red Brick is that it needs a coarser grind and a smaller dose, but now that the grinder is tuned into the other stuff I can't be arsed to change it (the grinder needs about a million turns of the knob to make any difference). I've got a Mazzer coming later in the week and have a play with it then.

I've given the other bag of RB away, still got two bags of their other 'espresso' blends in the freezer.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

If that's the case then is it possible that you just prefer traditional dark roasts and the acidity remaining in medium roasts is just not for you? Maybe what you're experiencing is acidity rather than sourness? Just wondering.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I doubt very much that anyone would want to drink what was coming out of the machine.

Made an ok cup of filter though.


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

Expobarista - No coffee can be to everyone's tastes, and if this one isn't to yours we understand and we'll sort it out (PM me your details).

Chiarasdad - What size shot are you pulling? I should probably add that at 21g my shots would probably be in the 35-36g range (similar brew time and temp).


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks James, pm duly sent.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Just wanted to add that although I'm no expert and I haven't tried the new 2 bean blend, I've been through probably 4 bags of Red Brick in the last couple of months and really enjoyed all of them. I do get the feeling that it just might not be to everyone's tastes perhaps.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't think I've ever had a quality coffee that was not to my taste and I don't think what is coming out of my machine is what should be coming out... I'm not saying this is duff coffee, I'm frustrated by my failure to get a good extract yet.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

How about a video showing grind and extraction?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I made a single a bit earlier, really low dose, and it tasted a shitload better, but still so acidic that I'd be surprised if anyone would consider it something they'd choose to drink .

In the morning, when the machine is back on, I'll have a play with a double basket and a tiny dose..lets say 13g max, and a long pull, and see what happens. If I can get a moment away from the 1 week old baby, and his jealous 2 year old sister, I'll dig out a video camera.

I'm still stumped by the recommended dose of 18g, intuitively it feels wrong for this type of coffee, but it I'm not arrogant enough to think that my expertise is faultless, certainly when there are very knowledegable people here, including the roaster, who are saying it makes good coffee.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I just think it's great that you're persisting with trying to make it work rather than walking away immediately. I hit a brick (no pun intended) wall with a blend (different roaster) earlier this year and it threw me for six... There's a thread on here called Is It Me Or The Beans? It turned into a humbling learning experience, even tho I still wouldn't go out of my way to drink that particular blend.

Good luck with tomorrow's shot.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

For the record, James has been in touch and made a very generous offer. Although I can't seem to get on with this particular coffee I am very impressed by his attention to his customers.

Thanks James


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

Happy to help - and I'd say the same of just about any roaster out there.

To all on the board - please, please feedback - we're interested to hear, to help, to talk - as is any passionate roaster.

In our case we're mostly a wholesale focused company, and retail is a smaller part of what we do - which means it is harder to allocate the time to keep track of what is going on online (thank goodness for various services that keep an eye out for you!). This isn't to say we don't have a responsibility to pay attention to online discussions - we just might be a touch slower on the uptake than those who set the gold standard (Steve at HasBean really does a great job here we think).


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## jimrobo (Aug 5, 2011)

absolutely splendid service james!!

Just put an order through. Looking forward to getting stuck into it


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

jimrobo said:


> absolutely splendid service james!!
> 
> Just put an order through. Looking forward to getting stuck into it


Thank you!


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

James Hoffmann said:


> Chiarasdad - What size shot are you pulling? I should probably add that at 21g my shots would probably be in the 35-36g range (similar brew time and temp).


*Yikes*! It is bloody intimidating to have James Hoffman himself enquiring what the **** I am doing to his coffees









Um . . . I'm afraid I've been abusing them rather badly, sir.

My 18.5g shots were in the 1 oz range (eyeballing liquid volume, not weighing). Moving up to 21g I have actually reduced the liquid volume a bit from there.

Yesterday's shot was probably 3/4 oz, extracted over <gulp> 1 minute, 20 seconds. Yes, a bit extreme. But it was pretty good!</gulp>

I'll weigh today's shot so I can report more accurately.

I'd better mention at this point that I've been having grind and/or distribution/tamp problems of late. The last couple of weeks I have been getting unaccustomed channelling, little sprays around the edges, lopsided pours, all kinds of things. This didn't used to be a problem. Either I've lost my touch pretty badly, or my grinder (3-year-old Zass that sees daily use and feels a bit more wobbly than it used to, or it could be my imagination) is getting old or needs a tune-up. Santa is rumoured to be packing a Eureka Mignon on his sleigh for me, and if that turns out to be the case we will see how it affects things.


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

Today I took extra care in distribution and tamping and was rewarded with much more even (if still not perfect) pours. One shot of 24g in 1:10, another of 34g in :55, both from 20g doses. Both are, yes, outside normal parameters, but both were good. The 24g in 1:10 shot was really good, at least according to me. Admittedly my tastes are not everybody's.

And even though the 34g shot was less to my personal taste, it did have that ohh-there-are-a-lot-of-flavours-mingling-here quality in the cup (that is in my experience typical of Square Mile) that I'd been missing previously.

One thing I usually have that I haven't this time is a benchmark shot from a really good Square Mile café to judge myself against. Since my extractions are so extreme I'm sure their shots will not be at all like mine. Still, I'm hoping to get in to London late next week and see what this coffee is like in the hands of people with real skills and equipment.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Well well well.

10 days after the roast date, and I pulled a shot this morning that was really tasty and without the overwhelming acidity of the previous attempts. Low ish dose of about 13g, and let it run until the espresso cup was almost full. Really really nice.

( the Guji and Granadilla are still not tasting good though)


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

I think I'm going to try the newer revision of the Red Brick blend once my current coffee has finished.

I had about 14g left of the earlier revision Red Brick yesterday (it is a few weeks old), and ground two separate shots in my Zassenhaus which was dialled-in for my current bag of Monmouth Espresso.

The first 7g shot poured in 10s as opposed to the previous beans which were around the 25-30s mark! Straight in the sink. I only noticed once ground that this was a relatively light roast.

I only had 7g left, so guessed where to dial it in, and managed a 20s shot. It was almost well-balanced (still slightly acidic) but left a wonderful toffee flavour aftertaste. I have a feeling that it could be a winner if I managed to pour it well. Next time!

I will try and report back.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Ok, so I've got some more in for a second go, now that I am thoroughly acquainted with my new machine, and I even have a Mazzer to grind it up. It was roasted last Thursday and I'm going to resist opening it until Wednesday. If you hear no more, then you can assume that I haven't made any good coffee with it, as I'm not going to be bitching anymore about it.

Interestingly I still have the remnant of one of the other bags left. Square Mile call it 'Guji Espresso', so it is an Ethiopean Sidamo. Putting it through an espresso machine just didn't do it for me, but through a filter it was stunning, and I mean stunning, probably the best cup of coffee I've had for some time. I'm left feeling that SM are missing a trick here by marketing it as espresso.

Sometimes more is less....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

We are due a video of your Expobar surely now!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

He! He! Good idea, I was given a helmet cam for Christmas so I'll strap it on and get in the kitchen. Better wait until my beloved is out or I'll never hear the end of it. As it is, when she catches me watching YouTube videos of people's extractions I get a weary "looking at porn again?"


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I finally picked up a kilo of Red Brick at the weekend and have been trying a few different parameters. To be honest I don't see what all the fuss is about. It's not even roasted particularly light in my view. It's medium brown in colour... a little way short of Full City perhaps. I agree that it is completely different from traditional dark roast blends... it doesn't seem to have much base, and is predominantly mid-to-high notes... so I can understand why it may not be a favourite for traditionalists who like their espresso the way espresso has always been. It reminds me very much of my first ever single origin espresso, Has Bean's Finca Argentina - also from El Salvador, like 60% of Red Brick. Fruity, somewhat citric. I haven't yet found the buttery or toffee qualities mentioned in the notes, but I'll keep searching. It's now 8 days past roast and I feel it is only now calm enough for me to get a consistent pull. It's certainly very drinkable, seems very complex in the shot glass. It also works well in milk, which balances out the high notes but still allows the fruitiness to tickle through. It isn't in my top 10, but I'm enjoying it. Despite the acidity, there is no sourness at all.

Boy, these beans are small and dense though! I need a much smaller scoop of beans than many other blends, volume-wise, to make up a weighted dose. It's like they have hardly dried, hardly expanded. I'd be interested to know something more about the roast profile.. whether it was a slow ramp up at the start (as I suspect... although I'm still a total roasting noob), or a fast high-temp boost at the beginning to dry the beans.

(Actually... if James Hoffman is reading this, would you sell a green bean version of this blend by any chance? I'd love to try roasting it at home to see what might result from different roast profiles.)

The recipe I've found best so far is 18g in, 36g out (a larger shot than my usual preference), 26 seconds, and at what I believe is a falling brew temperature of 92C to 88C.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Have you tried it filtered (or aero pressed then diluted)? Was it nicer?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I have tried it thru a v60 but I underextracted it so it doesn't count. Will be trying again soon. I think it may work really well as brewed coffee, maybe even preferable to espresso for me, as for you.


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## jimrobo (Aug 5, 2011)

The bag I got just after Christmas was nice. It wasn't as good as the previous revision IMHO but was still very nice. Could quite happily sit down and drink it anytime.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

They use SM RED BRICK at Laynes Espresso in Leeds. Dave, the owner told be it is at its best between 6 - 9 days after roast.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

I've just bought another bag (1kg). This is the newer two bean blend. Brewing 18g//30g brewed liquid//25-30s.

It's still quite tart as an espresso (no where near as sour as the earlier blend though that just about dissolved my teeth). It's fruity and fresh, a little bit like cherry juice.

However, it really comes into its own with milk. Rich and fruity, with no issues with acidity. I wonder if it's blended with latte and americano/milk drinks in mind.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I felt it really came into its own in a cafetiere.

I really wish that Square Mile would dare to be a little different and bring out a quality low-acidity medium-dark espresso blend


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Just made it up (faux espresso style) in the Aeropress. Tastes great; just the right acidity.

I'm not sure where to stand on this one, because sometimes I find some (particularly South American) coffees a bit bland in milk, whereas their lack of acidity might be great as espresso.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Personally, in milk, it's not acidity I like but a dark roasty edge to counter-balance the sweetness of the milk.

I'm still curious to know what a well-made cup of Red Brick tastes like, and whether it tastes the same as the ones I was making.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Might be worth finding a decent cafe that brews it. Plenty here as the roaster is across the road from my flat.

I'd similarly like to try just a straight espresso from a good cafe.

One thing worth noting is that with my machine (Gaggia Classic), I was starting the brew just as the heater element had switched off. For the Aeropress, I had only left the kettle for 20s or so after boiling.


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## Sam__G (Sep 4, 2011)

I've seen people mention 1kg bags of Square Mile beans. How do people order these as opposed to the 350g on their site?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I could be wrong but I think the 1kg bags may be intended for wholesale only. Maybe they retail the occasional kg bag on request (but pls don't say I said to inundate their phone lines!!)


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## Sam__G (Sep 4, 2011)

I would have thought so tbh. I was mostly just curious as I had seen a few mention them.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I had a bag but only cos I was at the roastery and was cheeky enough to ask!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

By the way, that bag is now 4 weeks old and is still lovely. Got better around the 10-12 day mark IMO


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Sam__G said:


> I've seen people mention 1kg bags of Square Mile beans. How do people order these as opposed to the 350g on their site?


The cafe round the corner from the roasting house only sells 1Kg bags. I'd rather have bought smaller as I like to swap between beans, but should be ok as they are still fresh.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

MikeHag said:


> I had a bag but only cos I was at the roastery and was cheeky enough to ask!


Do they retail out of their roastery? I was round that way recently and thought about popping in.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Earlepap said:


> Do they retail out of their roastery? I was round that way recently and thought about popping in.


No. Head round the corner to Cambridge Heath Road and next door to the station is Hurwundeki Cafe which sells 1Kg bags at £23. They also do Korean food now.

The barista that used to be there was (I think) maybe Spanish or Italian and made amazing coffees with swish latte' art. Haven't tried the coffee from the Koreans yet.


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## Danm (Jan 26, 2012)

I went to Dose at lunch time to figure out if the drink i was pulling last night was 'me' or the 'bean'.

typically, i chose the day when they have a guest blend on.... oh well, i'll have to go tomorrow.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

What beans do Dose usually offer, Dan?


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## Danm (Jan 26, 2012)

they use (and sell) Square Mile.

Today they had a Hasbean guest bean in the hopper (not sure which)


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Cool. I'll give it a bash when I'm next down there.


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