# Versalab M3 - dosing/distribution issue



## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Hi

I have recently switched from the La Spaz to the GS3. i think i now have a dosing and distribution issue. I am trying to grind straight into the portafilter and, as you know, you get the classic volcano. The issue is that i try to 'fill' the volcano but this is quite difficult to do reliably. I either have to bang the portafilter to try and get the hole filled or else i try and use my finger but the level of the coffee is below the top of the basket so this is not very easy and leads to poor results. The outcome is that i get a lot of duff shots with massive channelling and (with a naked portafilter) are clearly not right. To try and compensate for this problem i have tried upping the dose to 20 gr (18 is my standard) and this is successful. When i do this there is now plenty of coffee in the basket and i can use the usual north, south, east, west technique to fill the hole and get a flat puck. However, i really don't want to be dosing 20r for each shot and wanted to know:

1. shall i buy a new basket...in which case the issue is what size. i was thinking i could get a strada 14r basket and then dose 18 gr and hopefully this would be ok.

2. Should i get a VST basket or are the La Marzocco baskets already VST... i think this is the case from my reading?

2. Or should i just grind into a cup and then get some sort of dosing ring etc to make sure the grinds a nicely distributed. This seems like a poor option as the whole point of the M3 is that it is meant to give great distribution when you grind straight into the portafilter. It would also add in extra steps and fiddling

Finally, as you know we did have an informal versalab thread 'what weights 38lb and can fit it your hand luggage'. This has now been closed by i have contacted Glenn who suggested i start a new thread for this enquiry and he would investigate what happened with the previous post.

Any advice gratefully received

thanks


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

NSEW is a little unreliable and does not distribute the coffee below the surface layer.

This article may help you re-think distribution in the basket:

http://baristahustle.com/distribution-for-espresso/

The Spaz and GS3 are likely to have different shower screen heights so updosing or down dosing may be neccessary to avoid channelling.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

gs3 should have strada baskets as stock?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

They do


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

Think what was mentioned on a old m3 thread

can't you just to nutrate into middle


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> gs3 should have strada baskets as stock?


The basket I have has the marking L116/A on it. I can't seem to find any reference to it being La Strada or VST or the size...


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> Think what was mentioned on a old m3 thread can't you just to nutrate into middle


Thanks for the suggestion. I am not really a nutator but will read about this and see if it might be a solution...


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Not sure this helps but I use a 20g vst and find that 18 or 19 usually gives just the right amount to fill and level with a NSEW no tapping involved. Do yo have the PF clamp fitted ?


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> Not sure this helps but I use a 20g vst and find that 18 or 19 usually gives just the right amount to fill and level with a NSEW no tapping involved. Do yo have the PF clamp fitted ?


Yes - I have the portafilter holder and so am grinding straight into the basket. Here is a link to my current basket...

http://www.espresso.co.nz/parts/espresso-coffee-machine-parts-by-brand/marzocco/double-filter-basket-14-grams-la-marzocco-l116a/

Can anyone tell if this is the strada/VST version. It is meant to be 14gr so I don't understand why it is not filling up nicely...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I Dont think this is a strada / vst basket looking at the design and walls- ita really hard to tell though the dose tolerances of 14-18g dont correspond to those of a strada ( plus 2g ) .

Vst baskets have vst printed on them .


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> I Dont think this is a strada / vst basket looking at the design and walls- ita really hard to tell though the dose tolerances of 14-18g dont correspond to those of a strada ( plus 2g ) . Vst baskets have vst printed on them .


Thanks Boots.. I think I just need to bite the bullet and buy the 14gr basket and hope for the best...if it is the wrong size hopefully I could swap/return it...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nod said:


> Thanks Boots.. I think I just need to bite the bullet and buy the 14gr basket and hope for the best...if it is the wrong size hopefully I could swap/return it...


Strada 14 will dose up to 16g

Vst 15 g is 14-16g

So dose wise the. Same

Both are designed to have some headroom at 15 g

Do you never dose above 16g


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> Strada 14 will dose up to 16g Vst 15 g is 14-16g Both are designed to have some headroom at 15 g Do you never dose above 16g


Yes - I always dose 18 grams. I spoke to la marzocco engineer who said buy the 14gr strada basket and 18gr fits in nicely. I need to have the basket nicely full or else I get the big volcano in the middle which is hard to fill... Do u think this is wrong?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Errrr...id buy either an 18 g vst or a 16 g strada. For an a 18g dosr Coffee needs headroom in the basket. They arent working at the dosea they are designed being overdose to that level.

Depends if you wanna accurately dose or overfill and swipe your basket


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> Errrr...id buy either an 18 g vst or a 16 g strada. For an a 18g dosr Coffee needs headroom in the basket. They arent working at the dosea they are designed being overdose to that level. Depends if you wanna accurately dose or overfill and swipe your basket


Thanks a lot... You have saved me buying the wrong basket....I definitely want to dose the correct amount not swipe...

So, do you think a 16gr strada would make a significant difference to the basket I have?


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

I am not sure if this helps because I am using a Terranova modified M3.

I use a dosing ring measuring 1.5cm between the PF and the grinder. I am using a 18g VST ridgeless basket for 16g of beans.

After grinding, I tap the PF onto a rubber ice hockey puck (best tool you will ever buy for a quid) to level the grounds before a fairly light tamp. I find that the tapping levels and partially tamps for me.

That set-up works perfectly in my GS/3 AV.

David


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Nod said:



> Thanks a lot... You have saved me buying the wrong basket....I definitely want to dose the correct amount not swipe...
> 
> So, do you think a 16gr strada would make a significant difference to the basket I have?


I think it is good if you have the budget to get 3 of the 4 vst baskets: 15g, 18g, then the 20g or 22g. At least the 15g and 18g are worth it, you will be using them a lot since some beans require different dosage to get the best out of them and these 2 sizes cover almost everything.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

And as mentioned above the Vst baskets should be used at +/- 1g of their specified weight.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nod said:


> Thanks a lot... You have saved me buying the wrong basket....I definitely want to dose the correct amount not swipe...
> 
> So, do you think a 16gr strada would make a significant difference to the basket I have?


Difference= taste = subjective

Certainly a correctly sized basket for dose wouldn't hurt .

My personal preference is for Vst/strada over other baskets ( IMS etc )


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks all... This has helped me a lot. I also had a v useful chat with Coffeechap. I am going to buy a new tamper and buy at least the 15 and 18 strada baskets. I'm going to try adding tap into my shot preparation and then follow up with gentle nutation.

I am also going to recognise I have bought new gear that will take a while for me to master and to take the pressure of relax and enjoy the process... Thanks all


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Nod said:


> Thanks all... This has helped me a lot. I also had a v useful chat with Coffeechap. I am going to buy a new tamper and buy at least the 15 and 18 strada baskets. I'm going to try adding tap into my shot preparation and then follow up with gentle nutation.
> 
> I am also going to recognise I have bought new gear that will take a while for me to master and to take the pressure of relax and enjoy the process... Thanks all


The Tore 58.55 works excellent for me with VST baskets.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> The Tore 58.55 works excellent for me with VST baskets.


Thanks charris... I'm trying to sort a new tore tamper with the chap...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

charris said:


> The Tore 58.55 works excellent for me with VST baskets.


As would a perg tamp


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Agree with Boots. The Perg's upper flange edge where it begins to curve inwards towards the handle provides a good reference point against the lip of the basket which really helps keep the tamp perpendicular.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

If I spend £100 on a tamper I will be enjoying making coffee from the boot of my car on a permanent basis... Still at least the gs3 has a tank...


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

If I spend £100 on a tamper I will be making coffee from the boot of my car on a permanent basis! Still, at least the GS3 has a tank...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nod said:


> If I spend £100 on a tamper I will be making coffee from the boot of my car on a permanent basis! Still, at least the GS3 has a tank...


But £1000's on machine and grinder is ok ......?


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Ha yes good point... Straw and camels back etc... Just one more wafer thin mint...


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