# Newbie grinder advice please - manual vs electric vs value for money?



## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

Hi folks. I'm at my chemistry lab experimental phase at present and waiting for my Gaggia Classic & Aeropress toys to arrive. I've been purchasing my (current favourite) beans from my local store and having them ground. I've been making simple filter coffee at work with this. At some stage however, I'd like to grind my own beans, simply because it's so much easier and neater to store beans at home and grind them as required. From the helpful sticky list of brands and prices, my shortlist so far is as follows:

Hario Coffee Mill (ceramic slim) £30

Hario Coffee Mill (skerton) £37

Dualit 75015 Grinder £80

Iberital MC2 Auto Grinder £114

I'm very tempted to go with the cheapest of the lot until I become more proficient but I don't want to waste time and coffee either. The Dualit seems very good value for money in terms of spec but again, some may argue that it's best to spend a little extra and go for the Iberital as a basic electric grinder.

Your opinions most welcome please...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

When buying kit - understandably, buyers focus on the machine but a grinder is an integral part of the relationship and the two should be considered together not separately. A manual grinder is a great standby but not good for regular use with your Classic - so an electric grinder is something you should consider carefully. There are lots of second hand grinders on the market and plenty of heads up advice via the forum. Perhaps you might want to think about saving for something a bit above your budget which would be more future proof ugradeitis-wise if, as is quite probable at some stage - you decide to move on from the Classic. Using a hand grinder then makes sense whilst you get the money together for a really decent grinder.


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## jakeapeters (May 20, 2013)

If I were you I'd probably go for a second hand electric grinder (in your price range it's probably worth looking at a Baratza), purely because it takes a fair amount of time/effort to grind enough beans for a shot of Espresso on a hand grinder.

I do, though, have a Mini Mill Slim, and have used a Skerton, but prefer the Slim because it's smaller and to my eyes produced a marginally more even grind.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

To be honest you will need separate grinders for the gaggia and aeropress. Changing settings all the time is a pain + espresso and filter coffee require differing grind profiles (unless youre Matt Perger).

I would go for a Porlex mini/Hario slim for Aeropress - this maintains the ability to be mobile with the set-up (the porlex fits inside the aero for travel) . Ultimate grind quality can be found however in the more expensive OE Lido - top end hand grinder for filter.

Handgrinding for espresso is a ball ache (unless you have a HG one or OE Pharos) & grind quality and adjustability are key for it to work. The MC2 is absolute entry level but personally think you are better off getting a 2nd hand higher quality grinder. If your grind is 10% off it will taste 90% terrible.

Buy cheap , buy twice


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

amen... i bought an MC2.. it was fine with my little gaggia, but as soon as I got a better machine I wanted a better grinder. I'm in the process of doing so now. In the changover i'll have lost about £50 in the price of a new grinder vs its second hand value when I sold it. So if you can... just go for something decent the first time.

if anything, I advocate using a higher end grinder with a basic machine. heck, i'd rather have a Mazzer Robur and a Gaggia Classic, than an MC2 with an LM Strada machine


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

shrink said:


> . heck, i'd rather have a Mazzer Robur and a Gaggia Classic, than an MC2 with an LM Strada machine


Speak for yourself ; )


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

haha i mean if you could ONLY have those combos. You're not allowed to upgrade the MC2 later. You have to permanently use a strada with an MC2 haha

i'd rather the good grinder and cheap machine. I think the taste would still be better. Even my fracino exposed the taste limitations in an MC2. A strada would be brutal.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

shrink said:


> You're not allowed to upgrade the MC2 later. .


That would be harsh!


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Please don't do the Dualit...... been there some time ago and upgraded within weeks, a poor investment if espresso is your way to go..... It just can't get anywhere near! MC2 or Mignon would be the minimum just as everyone else here would probably agree! Good luck whatever.

Ian


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I was in the same dilemma and ended up going for a porlex. It's great but I soon got fed up with the time it took to hand grind in the morning and also the lack of in between setting for espresso did my head in. I ended up going for a Mignon. I've still got the Porlex and use it for work.

I'd definitely recommend the Mignon, if you have the space go for a second hand commercial grinder and add a smaller hopper.

There may be some second hand grinders coming up after the grind off in June!!!


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## Don_your_hat (May 13, 2013)

I second IanP's post. I originally went for a Dualit 75002 (similar price and spec as the 75015) for use with my Gaggia and regretted it. Even modifying it to get finer grinds I couldn't get it fine enough for espresso. A positive lesson I learnt was not to underestimate the importance of the grinder though. Good luck.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

I am in a similar situation, have a classic and looking for my first grinder.

The cheapest thing that will grind a bean is the best VFM, after that the law of "diminishing returns" kicks in........... a £200 grinder isnt twice as good as a £100 one. I found a good deal on an ascaso i2 mini £132 ish delivered. The one i think i want is £240 ish my head says the £130 will be plenty and i can afford it, the £240 i cant afford even at £200 cant afford............ I might wait for the end of the grind off before buying unless something really tempts me beforehand.

I find ebay a PITA and would rather not buy from there especially not new but if a local used unit comes up i may be tempted.

Should add i am looking for a grinder that will outperform the classic just in case i need to "upgrade" the machine.................

Buy the best you can afford, unfortunately best can be very subjective.....


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Not sure I entirely agree with the above mate.

The cheapest grinder that grinds a bean does not equal value for money. I it breaks a month later, or produces horrid particle variance then it may be capably of technically grinding, but wouldn't be good value. For example at its new price, I dont really consider the mc2 to be great value. The mignon at £270 ish however, is great value.

Is it twice as good as an mc2? Well... Probably yes.

It's easier to adjust, it's quieter, it's smaller, it's prettier, it's far far more consistent, quicker and also built to last with the construction of a scaled down commercial grinder. I'd also suggest it would produce better tasting results in the cup. The vario I borrowed walked all over the mc2 for flavour in the cup. So in this example, I'd say the mignon is twice as good as an mc2.

IMHO the law of diminishing returns on grinders doesn't kick in till nearer the £500 mark. A I'd say a decent £500 grinder, is a great deal better than a mignon in terms of speed, durability, and consistency. Again with benefits of flavour in the cup. To back this up, I will refer to personal experience. The Nuova simonelli MDX I had alongside the vario was quicker, quieter, and made better tasting coffee than the vario. And with a retail of around £600 is twice as expensive as a vario.

Beyond that point... E.g. Beyond the super jolly, caimano, MDX, level of grinder.... Then the diminishing returns kick in sharply. A major is not twice as good as a super jolly!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

shrink said:


> . A major is not twice as good as a super jolly!


Its twice as quick. In a shop setting 1 major is worth 2 SJs

For a home user maybe no so


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

When I open a shop, I'm gonna dial down a wood chipper









18g in 0.01 seconds

Might be a few particle variations though


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

From all your comments above, I think I'll save up to get a grinder worth around £250 or so - until then, I'll keep buying ground coffee. No point spending £120 or so on Iberital if I'm going to end up replacing it a year later! Will keep searching on the classifieds here though for any bargains.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Good choice.. I bought an mc2 and I'm about to replace it with a quamar m80e.

Something like a mignon or a vario would be a good bet, especially if you can get either second hand.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

At £250 if you hae the space, you can get a knock out used commercial.......


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

It would be good to know how the Ascaso i1 compares with MC2, Rancilio Rocky and Mignon. At ~£175 it's a price point between them. DaveC's BB review was very positive about it.


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## Callum_T (Dec 23, 2012)

Pick up a La Cimbali Junior used off of fleabay - 64mm burrset would have eat up an SJ easier to make fine adjustments and it will be circa £100 because it has nothing to do with Mazzer.

Gumtree kicks out a few dream deals heard of varios for £40 SJ's usually around £100 - if you really want a home grinder picking up a MC2 off the forum should put you into a situation where youll be able to sell it for what you paid for it.

Go commercial; the Rocky is nothing on the SJ and that's far from the 'ultimate grinder' it seemed to be when I started the coffee journey.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

painty said:


> It would be good to know how the Ascaso i1 compares with MC2, Rancilio Rocky and Mignon. At ~£175 it's a price point between them. DaveC's BB review was very positive about it.


That would be awesome, even better would be if they could be at the grindoff ?

Although the i1 and rocky seem to be in the £230+ bracket and the Mignon another £50 so £280 the i2 and MC2 seem similar in the under £150 along with the Gaggia MDF and the MM and dualit in the £100 and under bracket.

I think the Mignon is a clas looker and the i-steel seems similar its always just another £50 extra............


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

I suspect Rocky is the most overpriced low-end grinder out there. The build quality is not as good as some will have you believe with a decidedly spindly alloy frame and sloppy adjuster mechanism, but because it's heavy people think that automatically means well-made. I got two from a particularly dodgy batch, but it was a blessing in disguise as they were so bad I got a full refund and moved up to commercial.


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

Hmmmm.... I'm getting overwhelmed with the brands & recommendations.

Ok - let's make it really simple. My budget is £100, new or used. So what should I concentrate on?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh i thought you said £250! for a budget of £100 you could still get a lot, again you havent mentioned space so it is difficult to guide you from here. but if you have the sapce then i have recently seen a la cimbali junior go for around 100 on ebay as did a compak k6 and a brasilia rr45 all are really competent commercial grinders with 64mm burrsets, oodles of power and great grind consistency and would meet pretty much any upgrade you could have, plus you would probably make money on them if you sold them on immaculate.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

HDAV said:


> Although the i1 and rocky seem to be in the £230+ bracket and the Mignon another £50 so £280 the i2 and MC2 seem similar in the under £150 along with the Gaggia MDF and the MM and dualit in the £100 and under bracket.
> 
> I think the Mignon is a clas looker and the i-steel seems similar its always just another £50 extra............


This place has the i1 for ~£180 delivered which seems pretty good. A guy on eBay was selling pink ones for ~£150 delivered but has put the price up to £180


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

why not buy the ascaso up for sale from savo, that should do the job and he only wants £70 delivered now


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

that grinder of savos is a great little grinder for that price, it is the better flat burr version and will tick all the boxes you need right now and you should not lose any money on it if you sell it later......plus will bring the smile back to your face


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> that grinder of savos is a great little grinder for that price, it is the better flat burr version and will tick all the boxes you need right now and you should not lose any money on it if you sell it later......plus will bring the smile back to your face


Thanks very much indeed - just offered asking price.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

should do you well enough, 54mm flat burrs, 250w motor, it should compare to a mazzer mini in everything but build. Hope it works out for you.


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

Looking forward to acquring it - at this stage, all of this is experimentation which is why I can't spend serious dosh. I wish to save up and become an expert at wielding the might that awaits... Londinium and Fracino lands!!! The journey has begun!


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

drgekko said:


> Thanks very much indeed - just offered asking price.


Well thats saved me a tough decision.......... I think the Mignon is my first choice or the i-steel 1.............. I'll see what comes up secondhand......


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