# Help needed in choosing a grinder... long post



## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

Hi everyone,

This is the very first time I post here. I'm not an English native speaker, please bear with me.

I began my journey with Sage by Heston Blumenthal the Barista Express:









I chose this machine because it is very cheap in terms of cost( grinder + machine) and I wanted to test out the performance of its thermal coil system:









I have returned it because I cannot get consistent result from it, I was suspecting the variation in grinding.

Why?

It is because I found the performance of thermal coil system is actually good.

I actually measured it, I sticked the thermostat head right into wafer output hole behind shower screen:









No portifilter attached during measurement, straight out! free flow

Room temp @ 25c









Through out 25 seconds of "extraction", the temperature falls gradually from 94c to 90c.









You may think, what? this is "good" performance ?

Yes, this is because the wafer flow rate is about 2- 3 times faster than normal extraction with coffee in portifilter.

If its PID control can almost keep up with free wafer flow, I have no doubt it can keep up with outputting consistent 94c water through out extraction.

I don't have equipment for pressure measurement though.

Now I'm planning to buy a good grinder to pair with Sage by Heston Blumenthal the Duo Temperature Pro.

Back to my question.

I read a lot of threads about grinders. You name a grinder, I properly hear of it.

Now I come to a scenario that how much of coffee I consume each day became a major consideration on choosing a grinder, because I was told that if I don't have enough beans in the hopper, I cannot get consistent grinds.

If I will brew at most 2 double shots a day in the morning, should I go for Eureka mignon?

or Baratza Sette 270?

Other suggestion for my usage?


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

It seems to me that there are three tiers to grinders:

1. Entry level / domestic grinder using burrs and capable of grinding for espresso

2. Small commercial grinder with larger burrs capable of a more uniform grind and so capable of bringing forward more complexity and clarity

3. Top end grinders, complexity and clarity is a given but now it is about character or accessing very high extraction yields

You have a dual boiler machine capable of very consistent temper,a tire during extraction. What tier do you want to play in?

Should have said that tier 0 is the blade bean blender tier.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

A lot comes down to your budget. I (personally) would spend as much as you can, really. The grinder is the heart of the system in many ways, and the grinders you mention are entry level (ok, no-one knows about the Sette...)

When you say you won't be drinking a lot of coffee, are you suggesting you want to single dose (rather than leave beans in a hopper). Leaving beans in a hopper isn't too much of an issue, unless you want to change beans regularly.

For me, I would first set a budget, possibly based on Obnics tiers above. There are many choices, and second hand only increases this.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

> Now I come to a scenario that how much I consume each day became a major consideration on choosing a grinder, because I was told that if I don't have enough beans in the hopper, I cannot get consistent grinds.


There are small (not complicated) modifications that can be made to most grinders to overcome this issue. These usually involve removing the hopper and installing a tube into which is fitted a small weight on top of your beans. The result is a consistent weight of "beans" entering the burrs.

This does not really work well with single dosing so it may be best to add a timer too.

My advice is spend as much as you can on the grinder and consider secondhand level 2-3 grinders as described by obnic for the best price/performance. There are often folks here that are selling suitable machines as they upgrade.

If your preference is for new then ask someone else..... Sorry I have never owned a new grinder


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Unfortunately the grinder on the sage is basically crap, sorry to be so blunt, but the machines appear to be well respected but the grinders are just left wanting. Get yourself a really good used commercial and your coffee will sing


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

Obnic said:


> It seems to me that there are three tiers to grinders:
> 
> 1. Entry level / domestic grinder using burrs and capable of grinding for espresso
> 
> ...


I understand grinder is more important than the extraction machine. but my point is that may be I cannot get a good result with my consumption amount, for example, I don't have enough beans to fill into hopper which causes inconsistent grinding

or I got a over-killed grinder, like I got a commercial Mazzer Robur but I grind 18g of coffee each day, what a waste. I can get the same result with a much cheaper grinder.

You get my point?


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> A lot comes down to your budget. I (personally) would spend as much as you can, really. The grinder is the heart of the system in many ways, and the grinders you mention are entry level (ok, no-one knows about the Sette...)
> 
> When you say you won't be drinking a lot of coffee, are you suggesting you want to single dose (rather than leave beans in a hopper). Leaving beans in a hopper isn't too much of an issue, unless you want to change beans regularly.
> 
> For me, I would first set a budget, possibly based on Obnics tiers above. There are many choices, and second hand only increases this.


Yes, I'm suggesting grind for single dose, the rest of beans will be put into a air tight container.

I think you are right, leave beans few days in the hopper wouldn't be a big issue.

And I would only use one kind of beans in a period of time.

Refer to my last post at #6, my point is that if I got a Mazzer Robur, I can affort it, but it is waste of money.

Therefore, I still think there is a way of recommendation based on how much coffee I will consume in a row each day.


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

grumpydaddy said:


> There are small (not complicated) modifications that can be made to most grinders to overcome this issue. These usually involve removing the hopper and installing a tube into which is fitted a small weight on top of your beans. The result is a consistent weight of "beans" entering the burrs.
> 
> This does not really work well with single dosing so it may be best to add a timer too.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your suggested mod, it is clever.

Unfortunately, I'm living in Hong Kong, not much second hand tier 2-3 grinder around here.

There is a lot of Eureka Mingon here.


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> Unfortunately the grinder on the sage is basically crap, sorry to be so blunt, but the machines appear to be well respected but the grinders are just left wanting. Get yourself a really good used commercial and your coffee will sing


I can't get a second hand high end grinder in Hong Kong


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## The resurrection (Mar 9, 2015)

Keep an eye out on here you just missed out on a royal at a great price which was already modded and powder coated. Sure you will find another royal/ major or even SJ on here I would go for all of the above before getting a mignon


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I dont drink a huge amount but use a mazzer superjolly. It gets me a much better shot, which is of course the point. There must be a market of 2nd hand commercial machines in HK.

However you seem to have narrowed your choices down to the baratza 270 or the mignon. So I suppose that's what you are asking rather than "which grinder"


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

Missy said:


> I dont drink a huge amount but use a mazzer superjolly. It gets me a much better shot, which is of course the point. There must be a market of 2nd hand commercial machines in HK.
> 
> However you seem to have narrowed your choices down to the baratza 270 or the mignon. So I suppose that's what you are asking rather than "which grinder"


No. I am open for other options, I'm looking at Eureka Zenith


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You can import with confidence. I know for a fact, BellaBarista regularly send stuff overseas and to HK. If Eureka is already in HK, then look at the 75 range which seems to be in vogue as opposed to a 65.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

gcs said:


> I understand grinder is more important than the extraction machine. but my point is that may be I cannot get a good result with my consumption amount, for example, I don't have enough beans to fill into hopper which causes inconsistent grinding
> 
> or I got a over-killed grinder, like I got a commercial Mazzer Robur but I grind 18g of coffee each day, what a waste. I can get the same result with a much cheaper grinder. You get my point?


Well, speaking for myself, I could not possibly justify my grinder based on the amount of coffee I consume. It's a hobby and a vice so I don't count the money only the pleasure.

I think we are all suggesting that you pursue the best quality you want to afford because, for us, it's all about taste in the cup and the zen-like meditation of pursuing unattainable perfection. So we like serious grinders.

Grumpydaddy is right about putting a weight on your beans. You can put 500g of rice into a muslin bag and put that on-top of your beans and it will help a lot. If you get more serious you can fit an acrylic tube into the grinder's throat with a 1 kg weight pushing down on your column of beans.

I agree, a Robur is insanity in the home because you"ll waste two shots worth of coffee every time you make an adjustment. (I have one. I love it but it's just mad.). However, smaller commercials can work very well. I'm using a Ceado E92 changed to work with single doses of beans.

If you let us know your budget and what tier you are aiming at, we can help more.


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> You can import with confidence. I know for a fact, BellaBarista regularly send stuff overseas and to HK. If Eureka is already in HK, then look at the 75 range which seems to be in vogue as opposed to a 65.


Sadly, most of them will go as high as mignon, pair with delonghi ec155, that's it. Only "enthusiastic" will go for higher burr set.

Most people in HK are thinking Starbucks coffee is good enough.

I think it may need a long period of time before I found a tier 2-3 second hand grinder in HK.

Yes, I'm looking on BB and elektros.it, they both ship to HK.


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## gcs (Sep 7, 2016)

Obnic said:


> Well, speaking for myself, I could not possibly justify my grinder based on the amount of coffee I consume. It's a hobby and a vice so I don't count the money only the pleasure.
> 
> I think we are all suggesting that you pursue the best quality you want to afford because, for us, it's all about taste in the cup and the zen-like meditation of pursuing unattainable perfection. So we like serious grinders.
> 
> ...


Okay, I see your point.

I am looking at around £670 budget grinder.

Eureka fit my taste and its way of adjustment and may not need to calbrate after cleaning the burr set.

I'm already thinking in modding it, fitting a 75mm Mythos Ti burr set into eureka zenith 65e

It is a easy mod to me









Btw your grinder is like a dream to me.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

gcs said:


> Most people in HK are thinking Starbucks coffee is good enough.


Sadly, most of the world thinks Starbucks is wonderful.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Have you seen @ahirsty 's Mazzer Royal? It's a better proposition than a Robur for home. It's half your budget (GBP325) which should leave plenty of room for shipping to HK and a lot of change in your pocket.


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