# Which Bean to Cup Machine Sould I Get?



## APScrim

Hi, My first post














I want a bean to cup coffee machine but I'm finding it impossible to choose one. It's a lot of money to invest so I really want to avoid pitfalls and ideally get one that all the experts agree is the best within my price range. It'll be used for several cups of coffee per day and I would feel I was spending more than I'd like to admit to by £500. I'm thinking £350 seems about right.

I've looked at the Which? Magazine article on coffee machines. Amongst the 'Best Buys' the ones with top 'Bean Taste Test' ratings are:

DeLonghi Magnifica ESAM 3200 £349

Jura ENA5 £680

Naturally I've been looking for the ESAM 3200, but I get the impression it's an old model as generally it's unavailable. The exception is at Amazon where you can find a model with 'S' appended to the name for £415:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Longhi-Magnifica-ESAM-3200/dp/B000OC4EBK

The appended 'S' and the fact it's unavailable anywhere else puts me off this, not to mention the inflated price.

The Jura ENA5 is too expensive, so now I'm unsure how to proceed.

Can anyone here advice me, given that I'm determined to get a 'Bean to Cup' model?

Thanks,

Alan


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## Turbo

I have the magnifica ( new model) and I really like it! So long as you look after it and descale it, I reckon it's good value.

The only thing I would say is buy it from john lewis so if you have any problems you can just take it straight back to them!

I use mine about 6 times a day, every day and it produces a decent cup with a good crema that lasts the whole cup.


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## BanishInstant

Just a quick question. Are you sure you want a bean to cup machine (automatic) and you wouldn't like to try a semi-automatic? An automatic is obviously simple to use, but you might outgrow it quite quickly (a personal opinion only - and no pressure). Plus you can get a reasonable semi-automatic machine and grinder for your money or a bottom of the range automatic.

You might want to try the old Gaggia UK shops if you are located near one. They are happy to give demos on the equipment and they frequently have reconditioned models to help your budget stretch.


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## APScrim

Turbo said:


> I have the magnifica ( new model) and I really like it! So long as you look after it and descale it, I reckon it's good value.
> 
> The only thing I would say is buy it from john lewis so if you have any problems you can just take it straight back to them!
> 
> I use mine about 6 times a day, every day and it produces a decent cup with a good crema that lasts the whole cup.


Thanks. I guess I can hope that newer DeLongi models are at least as good as the ESAM 3200. And I can see the advantage of purchasing from John Lewis with their 2 year guarantee. Things are complicated though. The current model at John Lewis is the ESAM04 whilst elsewhere it seems to be the ESAM4200S. I'd like to be able to compare these models before making a choice. I've found the instruction manual for the ESAM4200S, but I can't find anything useful on the ESAM04. I wonder if it's a special John Lewis model. It seems the marketing men prefer to keep their customers ignorant!

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BanishInstant said:


> Just a quick question. Are you sure you want a bean to cup machine (automatic) and you wouldn't like to try a semi-automatic? An automatic is obviously simple to use, but you might outgrow it quite quickly (a personal opinion only - and no pressure). Plus you can get a reasonable semi-automatic machine and grinder for your money or a bottom of the range automatic.
> 
> You might want to try the old Gaggia UK shops if you are located near one. They are happy to give demos on the equipment and they frequently have reconditioned models to help your budget stretch.


I'm very much looking for a convenient & excellent cup of coffee. If it takes time I'll doubtless resort to instant, and nobody wants that!


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## pete.w

delonghi machines have 2 year warranties. I have an esam 5400. been used every day for the last two years. I would recommend them.


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## APScrim

Thanks for that. I wish there was some way to compare machines beyond looks and price. It's scandalous really. Just sticking to DeLongi models, what's the difference between the 3200, 4200 and 5400?

I'm also surprised that a Bean to Cup machine apparently doesn't produce as tasty a cup as a Semi Automatic. Doesn't that mean they aren't building the Bean to cup Machines properly?

Any extra help very much appreciated!!!


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## APScrim

Is there somewhere else on the net that can help me choose a Bean to Cup machine?


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## Glenn

I would recommend a call to the following 2 people who both retail - and a have a good working knowledge of - bean to cup machines

Fairfax Coffee (Bob) 0800 316 8700

Xpress Coffee (Chris) 0800 082 8707

They have better experience than many other reviewers on the net and I would certainly trust their judgement.


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## APScrim

Many thanks.


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## coffeebean

Not a bean to cup machine as such, but a proper espresso machine with a built in on demand grinder (so would tick all your boxes!!).........http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Avanti.html


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## Dylan

coffeebean said:


> Not a bean to cup machine as such, but a proper espresso machine with a built in on demand grinder (so would tick all your boxes!!).........http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Avanti.html


I think that would remove the push-button convenience he is looking for, and introduce some of the biggest variables like grind setting and tamp pressure.

A part of me would still like the B2C convenience, even if it was just so friends or family could make themselves a coffee with the machine and not have to learn how.


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## CoffeeDoc

I have had a variety of B2C machines, most recently a Miele, which is a very good machine, but having an Alex Duetto the B2C machine sits on the side, it was due to be used for my wife's friends last week but they saw the Alex and refused coffee from the B2C machine, even though the Alex was not on and no-one knew how to use it , they had tea instead!

Once mastered there is a huge pleasure in making coffee well ( I am still hoping to get there) and it is much more rewarding than just pressing a button, even if you get it wrong more often than not. A bad coffee from Alex is better than anything that I have had from a B2C machine.

I would get a proper machine and be done with it, I only wish I had done it years ago.

Paul


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## arjxh56

Just ordered a Gaggia Unica so the wife can make herself a cup as she wont touch my manual machines! It should arrive today or tomorrow so yet to see how well it performs?

The price was £190 delivered (including the cashback offer).... Without any cashback it was £226 delivered. Bargain in my mind! My friend has ordered 2 so that he has a spare for that price!!!!!


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## gorstj

where from at that price?


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## arjxh56

gorstj said:


> where from at that price?


Philips Online.

Its got 30% off RRP and then there are 2 more codes you can apply, one for additional 25% off (HOUSEHOLD25) and then another one for £10 off (MYVOUCHER10)... Brings it down to £226. Then if you want it for £190, purchase it by first clicking through the Top Cashback website and they will also give 15.75% cashback...

http://www.philips-shop.co.uk/store/catalog/coffee/espresso/gaggia-unica/productdetail/RI9933_70_GB_SHOPPUB/GB/en

http://www.topcashback.co.uk/home

I am not sure how long the promotional codes stay valid for, i have used them twice so far, last occasion was on Sunday and they both worked.. You also get a 25% off voucher mailed to you if you set up an account or purchase online at philips.. I am not sure if you could get that first and then also apply that on top of the others above!? if so, that would be extremely cheap!!!


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## DavecUK

*I'm going to revive this thread only to update on the BTC machines and for anyone considering purchasing one either as a holiday home machine, for a small business, or even for a SOHO at the end of their garden.*

I was asked to look at BTC machines as Bella Barista wanted to introduce some to their range and I thought I would give it another go as 6 or 7 years ago I tested a lot of BTC machines on the market (unsuccessfully) and I thought things may have improved. Why would I even bother you ask, well a lot more people out there drink coffee than are willing to use prosumer kit...Nespresso proved that. My criteria for a good bean to cup is espresso (style) preparation must be better than capsule/pod machines and approaching that of an expertly used entry level prosumer machine. Milk drinks, well they can't compete, but with a quick Microwave you got something Milky with some mouth feel. One thing that* is a no no, Americanos shouldn't perform the insult of simply pushing 180ml of water through the coffee puck.....*

So I did......I was very surprised at what I found, so much so I need to be careful what I say. I think the general public understand very little about BTC machines, how they work and how they should work. All the reviews I've seen are so advertorial as to be useless, in fact I don't think I saw any useful reviews. This is surprising as there "should" be a lot of areas to review. One of the key areas for coffee drink preparation is cleanliness, it's so important that it cannot be emphasised enough and yet most consumers ignore it. Lots of BTC machines out there that can never be properly clean and much worse (fungus mould). However, I can't say more, don't want to get sued. *What I can say is, look for machines with easily removable brew groups that can be washed and properly sanitised.*

Drink quality is variable from the different machines, you would think it would all be much of a muchness...especially with all the scientific brew terms they come out with. Lastly grinding, BTC machines won't have the best grinding, but it will be good enough to match the requirements of the brew system used. Of course even these grinders need the best chance. Some machines grind for a set time and attempt portion control that way....I'd avoid any machine that does this, because next grind is going to contain stale coffee from the previous and these conical grinders tend to have a lot between the burrs. *Other machines (the clever ones) use a portioning system to take a set portion of coffee beans to the grinder and completely grind them out for each shot, this massively reduces the amount of stale coffee and keeps portioning very consistent.*

*
*

*There is a lot more, far more than I can ever bring out in this post...however two things surprised me big time*



*
*1. Big names don't mean great design and performance

2. Paying big money doesn't always get you the best, one of the machines I reviewed was way better than a machine costing almost twice as much.



*
No there is no way I reviewed all the BTC machines on the market, but I know my coffee machines *and remember if you can't find a review on a BTC machine, it's either because I didn't review it, or I looked at it and found it wanting...

The two machines I liked (one has a review and the other I'm producing a review) are the Melitta Machines, Caffeo Varianza and Caffeo Barista TS. The reviews are in the link below....as will be all new reviews I do for BB (for any products).

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

I will also be adding a couple of small videos, more engineering style of review (e.g. the above points and more), where i will bring out the common issues, hints and tips for the BTC machines. Currently the little Varianza gave really good performance as does it's bigger brother.


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## Expat

My suggestion - buy an AeroPress and a stove top mocha pot. Then spend the big money on a really good burr grinder. Take a look at oehandgrinders.com Met them at the Dublin coffee show and if their grinders match their passion, and they certainly look like they do, then you are on your way to some beautiful coffee.


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## Tigermad

DavecUK said:


> *I'm going to revive this thread only to update on the BTC machines and for anyone considering purchasing one either as a holiday home machine, for a small business, or even for a SOHO at the end of their garden.*
> 
> I was asked to look at BTC machines as Bella Barista wanted to introduce some to their range and I thought I would give it another go as 6 or 7 years ago I tested a lot of BTC machines on the market (unsuccessfully) and I thought things may have improved. Why would I even bother you ask, well a lot more people out there drink coffee than are willing to use prosumer kit...Nespresso proved that. My criteria for a good bean to cup is espresso (style) preparation must be better than capsule/pod machines and approaching that of an expertly used entry level prosumer machine. Milk drinks, well they can't compete, but with a quick Microwave you got something Milky with some mouth feel. One thing that* is a no no, Americanos shouldn't perform the insult of simply pushing 180ml of water through the coffee puck.....*
> 
> So I did......I was very surprised at what I found, so much so I need to be careful what I say. I think the general public understand very little about BTC machines, how they work and how they should work. All the reviews I've seen are so advertorial as to be useless, in fact I don't think I saw any useful reviews. This is surprising as there "should" be a lot of areas to review. One of the key areas for coffee drink preparation is cleanliness, it's so important that it cannot be emphasised enough and yet most consumers ignore it. Lots of BTC machines out there that can never be properly clean and much worse (fungus mould). However, I can't say more, don't want to get sued. *What I can say is, look for machines with easily removable brew groups that can be washed and properly sanitised.*
> 
> Drink quality is variable from the different machines, you would think it would all be much of a muchness...especially with all the scientific brew terms they come out with. Lastly grinding, BTC machines won't have the best grinding, but it will be good enough to match the requirements of the brew system used. Of course even these grinders need the best chance. Some machines grind for a set time and attempt portion control that way....I'd avoid any machine that does this, because next grind is going to contain stale coffee from the previous and these conical grinders tend to have a lot between the burrs. *Other machines (the clever ones) use a portioning system to take a set portion of coffee beans to the grinder and completely grind them out for each shot, this massively reduces the amount of stale coffee and keeps portioning very consistent.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> *There is a lot more, far more than I can ever bring out in this post...however two things surprised me big time*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> *1. Big names don't mean great design and performance
> 
> 2. Paying big money doesn't always get you the best, one of the machines I reviewed was way better than a machine costing almost twice as much.
> 
> 
> 
> *
> No there is no way I reviewed all the BTC machines on the market, but I know my coffee machines *and remember if you can't find a review on a BTC machine, it's either because I didn't review it, or I looked at it and found it wanting...
> 
> The two machines I liked (one has a review and the other I'm producing a review) are the Melitta Machines, Caffeo Varianza and Caffeo Barista TS. The reviews are in the link below....as will be all new reviews I do for BB (for any products).
> 
> https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/
> 
> I will also be adding a couple of small videos, more engineering style of review (e.g. the above points and more), where i will bring out the common issues, hints and tips for the BTC machines. Currently the little Varianza gave really good performance as does it's bigger brother.


Hi Dave. Are you trialling the ts machine too. Loved reading your review


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