# Sage Oracle vs Oracle Touch



## CMax

Hi to all, I'm new to the forum.

ive got the go ahead to buy the Sage Oracle which I've been wanting to buy for over a year.

i also have one shot to get it right due to the amount of money involved.









Now there is the Oracle Sage Touch and I'm well and truly stuck. Do I go with the machine I've looking at for over a year (Oracle), or go with the new kid on the block (Oracle Touch)?

Thing is I'm trying to establish whether the extra £500 buys you any better components or is it purely the touch screen?

My head say £500 is not worth paying to get the touch screen but I can be an impulse buyer at times.

Has anyone got experience of both machines?

btw, I'm a relative novice in the home espresso world.


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## Mrboots2u

Hi

it's unlikely that anyone will have had both. I suspect little has been done to the grinder which was it's weak point.

It you want to programme loads of drinks in then that's fine. Wouldnt be for me, but it's not aimed at me.

Try this link

[video=youtube;-rnehh3mETM]


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## MildredM

Hello and welcome to the forum









It sounds exciting! My advice would be to thoroughly read up, go try both machines, and go with your gut instinct. If you are spending a lot of money you want to be really happy with your choice, not wonder if you should have bought a different machine.

Have you looked at any other machines/grinders at all?


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## GingerBen

I bought an oracle recently (dont have it any more, different story) but did all the reasearch possible. Inside they are identical so for my money the touch was a waste of money as I didn't see the £600 value in the interface


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## GerryM

CMax said:


> My head say £500 is not worth paying to get the touch screen but I can be an impulse buyer at times.
> 
> btw, I'm a relative novice in the home espresso world.


Hi, I have an Oracle (non touch), it's saved me a whole lot of effort as my wife and eldest daughter now make their own coffee!

With decent beans I've found that it produces a very reasonable espresso, the auto grind, tamp and milk steaming feature make the whole process simple, quick and almost mess free even making Latte or Cappuccino. The steamer produces reasonable micro foam and the only constraint on latte art appears to be my own incompetence.

I've had numerous machines and grinders, the Oracle doesn't match some of them in the cup, I suspect this is down to the grinder being at the lower end of what's available and nothing to do with the other bits of the machine, however, it doesn't require the same degree of precision to get a decent shot with the Oracle which may be ideal if you're a novice and don't want to spend much time exploring the rabbit hole and subsequent warren of espresso fundementalism .

The Oracle is a lot of money which it's worth to me for the convenience (with a price match rather than at full rrp), if you want to extract the very best rather than one of the most convenient espresso's then, for the same money and buying used, you could get a fantastic set up which would possibly last a lifetime (spend more on the grinder than the machine is the mantra and the Oracle ignores that).

My sense is that my Oracle will last a few years before ending up in a landfill, however, I bought it from Lakeland so if for any reason it complicates my life over the next three years it will be going back for a full refund, I'd recommend if you buy an Oracle buy it from Lakeland for their satisfaction guarantee alone (they will pricematch too) plus their customer service is exceptional.

I could have bought the touch model but decided that, as the grinder sets the ceiling of what's possible, there was no point spending the extra money for the same end result because the grinder is probably the same or very similar in both models (I don't know that for sure).

If I was starting out and wasn't prioritising convenience I wouldn't buy the Oracle, I'd buy an excellent grinder and a used HX or dual boiler machine just to see what's possible and to enjoy the process before buying an Oracle when I was sick of making coffee for other people


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## TobyAnscombe

I have the touch and am happy with it.

Yes, I could have gone cheaper and could have gone for the basic(!) Oracle but I've just had my kitchen done, I have two kids and a wife who have no interest ini the finer points of coffee making but the wife loves decent coffee. I bought sight unseen - essentially trusting the internet hype and 3 months later am still happy. On reflection I probably could have got away with the lower spec, non-screen version but both my 5 and 7 year old can make a decent coffee, they are able to foam milk for hot chocolate and when people come over its a real conversation piece.

I will point out that about 1 in 15 shots has a poor tamp applied to it but a simple job to fix using my old tamper. Other than that, I genuinely cannot fault the machine but yes, you do pay for the touch screen!


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## CMax

Thanks for all the responses so far, love all the viewpoints.

I must try and find a stockist who have both versions to try side by side.

Im intrigued by the buy the best grinder, then get a machine comment.

Essentially I want an all in one machine, the wife wouldn't want multiple device cluttering her kitchen

A must have is the milk frother for the wife's hot chocolate and my and the daughters latte.

Years ago I had a regular Gaggia which I hated because of the single boiler (stuff getting cold), therefore a dual boiler is my starting point.

Also, I've looked at cheaper fully automatics and I haven't found one that I like sub £1000.

The Oracle looks nice as well, more like a coffee shop machine!!

is there something similar but better than the Oracle at the similar price point, I really don't know and would love to hear opinions.

btw, I'm not really into buying 2nd hand but will if it's a compelling package.


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## ronsil

Out of interest, my Family & some visiting friends use my Oracle very easily on a daily basis.

To give me a different slant I also have an EK 43 which I use for a more refined result when required.

Well into my second year with the Oracle & its meeting all my needs without faltering.

Like so many others have said would rather have seen a new Oracle with a better grinder rather than the Touch.


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## GerryM

Like Ronsil I have an alternative grinder which I use with the Oracle when I want to refine the process, this route it offers a very good balance with either an almost bean to cup or a more involved espresso experience.


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## Mrboots2u

CMax said:


> Thanks for all the responses so far, love all the viewpoints.
> 
> I must try and find a stockist who have both versions to try side by side.
> 
> Im intrigued by the buy the best grinder, then get a machine comment.
> 
> Essentially I want an all in one machine, the wife wouldn't want multiple device cluttering her kitchen
> 
> A must have is the milk frother for the wife's hot chocolate and my and the daughters latte.
> 
> Years ago I had a regular Gaggia which I hated because of the single boiler (stuff getting cold), therefore a dual boiler is my starting point.
> 
> Also, I've looked at cheaper fully automatics and I haven't found one that I like sub £1000.
> 
> The Oracle looks nice as well, more like a coffee shop machine!!
> 
> is there something similar but better than the Oracle at the similar price point, I really don't know and would love to hear opinions.
> 
> btw, I'm not really into buying 2nd hand but will if it's a compelling package.


If you want something the whole family can use and predominantly for milk drinks get an oracle.


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## CMax

I gave Sage UK consumer support a call and asked whether there are any main component differences between the Oracle & Touch (i.e. boiler, grinder, etc).

The chap didn't sound quite convincing but he suggested the difference being the technology of the touch screen, all the espresso machine components are the same.


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## GerryM

That's what I expected , the non touch is easy to use so I suggest saving yourself some money and if you are sold on an Oracle buy the non touch model.


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## CMax

GerryM said:


> That's what I expected , the non touch is easy to use so I suggest saving yourself some money and if you are sold on an Oracle buy the non touch model.


 Roger that:good:

Thanks very much


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## Greydad

Is the Oracle basically a DB with a built-in grinder and a bit more programming? Or are there more significant differences?


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## GingerBen

Greydad said:


> Is the Oracle basically a DB with a built-in grinder and a bit more programming? Or are there more significant differences?


built in grinder, automatic dosing and tamping, automatic milk texturing and programmable buttons


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## Greydad

Cool thanks, didn't realise it had the auto-tamper I should have looked it into a bit more - it was way over budget though so didn't want to distract myself


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## GingerBen

Greydad said:


> Cool thanks, didn't realise it had the auto-tamper I should have looked it into a bit more - it was way over budget though so didn't want to distract myself


tbh the auto tamp is a bit hit and miss from my experience and actually was faulty on mine hence I sent it back.


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## ronsil

Gotta say again, - had my Oracle for two years now & it simply does its job. Never a problem.

Will never be the greatest machine on the planet but for the money you'd be hard put to find its equal.


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## GingerBen

ronsil said:


> Gotta say again, - had my Oracle for two years now & it simply does its job. Never a problem.
> 
> Will never be the greatest machine on the planet but for the money you'd be hard put to find its equal.


wish mine worked that well as I really wanted to love it but just found it frustrating


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## CMax

Well here the update.

i went to John Lewis Oxford Street to view the Oracle & Touch.

A Sage Barista was demonstrating the Touch and after 45 mins of discussing both machines I ended up placing an order there and then for a touch. We've had it a few days now and I really like the machine. The steam wand is really great for a beginner but I can see an experienced barista may not love the fact they are not in full control.

let the fun begin!


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## TobyAnscombe

You'll be happy - I've had mine since December and its not made a bad cup yet. Grind is set to 25-27 depending on age of beans and a double shot comes out in 30 sec.


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## AndyGBarton

My Oracle arrived yesterday & in the interests of a good nights sleep I only had 2 double espressos out of it yesterday  I have a black one & the external build quality is impressive. I have not dialed it in 100% yet & a double shot was 6g short but wow. I got a great deal at £1000 new but if you have the money I would at the moment suggest shopping around at full price is ok.


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## CMax

AndyGBarton said:


> My Oracle arrived yesterday & in the interests of a good nights sleep I only had 2 double espressos out of it yesterday  I have a black one & the external build quality is impressive. I have not dialed it in 100% yet & a double shot was 6g short but wow. I got a great deal at £1000 new but if you have the money I would at the moment suggest shopping around at full price is ok.


Wow, £1000. That is an amazing price!!

where did you get it from?


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## GerryM

@AndyGBarton £1000 for a new Oracle is a great price, where did you buy it at that price please?


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## AndyGBarton

They accepted a £1000 offer. I looked at previous history of them to come up with the £1k bid

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sage-BES980BKS-10-Cups-Coffee-Maker-black-sesame-brand-new-unopened/263543676898?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649


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## AndyGBarton

I was also looking at XS items LTD on ebay for a while. Beware, they often have expensive items missing, second hand too :-(


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## AndyGBarton

Chivalry & good old British fair play would suggest everyone lets CMax place an offer on the last one if he wishes ;-) lol


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## GerryM

Is the warranty valid with Sage if purchased through the ebay seller and do you still get the white glove service do you know?


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## AndyGBarton

I will register it soon but the white glove is of little interest to me. I'll update soon


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## ajohn

AndyGBarton said:


> I was also looking at XS items LTD on ebay for a while. Beware, they often have expensive items missing, second hand too :-(


They usually state what comes with the machine. They also sell both refurbished and used - distinct difference. The refurbished come with a warrantee, return to base but better than nothing.

I bought a dual boiler of them recently. Refurbished. I think I would avoid used. The machine produced steam the first time it powered up but failed to shortly after. The pumps made a hell of a racket when I first turned it on. May explain why this happened. XS were pretty easy to deal with. The usual instructions - unblock / descale the steam wand. This it seems is what Sage tell them to say. They paid the return costs and offered to try and find me another one. The 2nd one has been fine but when it arrived I opened the tank drain valves and left it for 10 mins like that before powering it up. I suspect that transport had caused some sort of air lock on the first one. There are a reports of a weakness on the steam boiler that can cause a thermal fuse to fail if filling it messes up. I do believe that they really do fully check the machines before sending them out.







Sort of hoisted by their own petard on the first one. Testing needs a fill.








There was a delay before I could make coffee. Just to be sure of where the machine is I gave it a thorough descale and a very thorough flush. That takes over an hour.

Some people buy Sage machines with a 3 year warrantee and sell as soon as that is up. Some may do the same with the 2 year ones. I went refurb on the basis that if it breaks I can fix it myself. Also not sure if the DB is what I want. I was perfectly happy with my Barista Express.







Might even go back to it. Doubt it but .............. I'm still tuning my drinks to suite the DB. The BE is sorted in that respect.

John

-


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## Dumnorix

CMax said:


> Well here the update.
> 
> i went to John Lewis Oxford Street to view the Oracle & Touch.
> 
> A Sage Barista was demonstrating the Touch and after 45 mins of discussing both machines I ended up placing an order there and then for a touch. We've had it a few days now and I really like the machine. The steam wand is really great for a beginner but I can see an experienced barista may not love the fact they are not in full control. let the fun begin?


It sounds like you have made a great choice for your circumstances. I have the Sage Dual Boiler as I wanted more control but if my wife and children were making drinks too it would be a different story! I'm lucky I have a very forgiving wife who is happy for half of our kitchen to be devoted to coffee!!


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## ajohn

If I wanted an Oracle the touch might appeal if all of the adjustment factors can be stored in a particular drink including infusion settings etc. On the other hand I would feel that I was paying way too much for the cost of the parts used to provide the touch screen especially as the cost of the switches and wiring on the none touch is saved.

If they did a Touch Dual Boiler I would probably find myself missing what the current buttons can do especially when I am tuning a particular drink. None of the Touch machines have a pressure gauge. Maybe no need on Oracles but having got used to using one for various reasons I wouldn't be happy about loosing it.

John

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## nomilknosugar

As our DeLonghi bean to cup is on its last legs (after 6 years of daily use), it's the perfect opportunity to upgrade. The Oracle +/-Touch looks like the ideal compromise between simplicity (her) and quality and geekery (me).

Looking at the instruction manuals for both machines, I have the impression that the oracle is more customisable than the Oracle Touch, is this correct? The Oracle has "advanced settings" that lets you change everything from pre-infusion pressure and time to tamp strength and time. I can't see this for the Oracle Touch - or is there an advanced manual somewhere?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1998/4025/files/BES990_UKM_IB_B17_LoRes_low_resolution-rev-1.pdf?7318718693987667660 - Oracle Touch

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1998/4025/files/BES980UK_UK_IB.pdf?8146414421466695250 - Oracle

Any hints and tips very welcome, folks!


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## Coffee Lover me

Disappointed in this machine, unlike the previous Sage Oracle you CANNOT adjust the coffee to pour by volume but only by time. This is a major flaw as most baristas will pour with volume not in seconds. I am selling mine because of this and keeping my original Oracle machine. Maybe Sage will upgrade the software once they sense they have messed up big time here. I confirmed this with Sage Appliances customer service before writing this review, they also seamed surprised to learn this as they were not aware of the issue. Hopefully Sage will reply with a solution to this post.


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## ronsil

Hi - Doubt that Sage will reply directly to your Post on the Forum.

It was one of the reasons I mentioned early on for not wanting to change my Oracle to a Touch.

Did you join the Forum just to make the comment (hardly a review)

Maybe introduce yourself a little more to enjoy all the benefits & help on offer here.


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## Mrboots2u

Coffee Lover me said:


> Disappointed in this machine, unlike the previous Sage Oracle you CANNOT adjust the coffee to pour by volume but only by time. This is a major flaw as most baristas will pour with volume not in seconds. I am selling mine because of this and keeping my original Oracle machine. Maybe Sage will upgrade the software once they sense they have messed up big time here. I confirmed this with Sage Appliances customer service before writing this review, they also seamed surprised to learn this as they were not aware of the issue. Hopefully Sage will reply with a solution to this post.


Not on here mate. Contact them direct . Oh and Most baristas use scales

Coming here to whinge about a company that doesnt post here , especially as a first post, isnt on really.


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## nomilknosugar

You have to dial in your shot anyway, adjusting the grind until you get your desired weight (not volume) in the desired time. I use my scales when dialling in, then I know the grind and time to get my shot right for the next couple of days or so. I can't say I've missed a "shot by volume" function.


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## Jamesmflint

Hi - we're looking at the touch oracle, but very quick question to any owner. Is the dimension for height on the website 45.4cm including to the top of the bean hopper? We have a limited space, and if it includes the hopper in the height we're ok. If not....

I assume it does, but hoping someone could confirm.


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