# Coffee machine friendly water.



## Colnago Master (May 6, 2014)

Can I get away with just a Brita filter jug? The Brita website says it descales. What does everyone use so they're not constantly de scaling?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Where are you based? Just seen Surrey so water probably quite hard. Bottled might be best, jug filters aren't that effective


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## Cana (Mar 7, 2015)

I'm using a filter and bottled water.. I switch between ashbeck and buxton ( I prefer buxton as its drinkable..) But ashbeck when theres no other option.

I bought 30litres of water from tesco the otherday and they thought I was running a cafe or trying to fill a pool... Little did they know I was taking advantage of their 12 pack 1.5litre bottles were on deal buy one get one free.

Sadly already on my last bottle... Tempted to create a siphon from a giant waterjug to my watertank... and a siphon from my driptray to the sink. Would be like having it plumbed in.


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## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

i have a decalcifier on my on my hot water system which i had fitted to assist my boiler. i pop hot water through the Brita and crack on with that I also descale my espresso machine every other month. Surely that is good enough?!I have never noticed a problem thus far an am not anticipating one!


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> jug filters aren't that effective


Damn really? Ahhhh flipping heck man, I bought one specifically.......I may not have looked into it enough but thought it better than not having one. Waters quite hard here also. So you think I should be buying bottled also?


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

I know a little about this as i spent hours reading info so here is the 30 second elevator pitch (followed by some super long reference material!):

Use Volvic bottled water in your espresso machine if you don't want to descale at regular intervals

Brita Filters seem to have got better and do reduce the hardness of water resulting in *LESS* scale build up, however this does not mean no scale build up over time!

I personally use volvic in my Rocket as it makes things easier but i do have a Brita jug for drinking water and pour over etc. Hope this helps some!

The info out there is really confusing to say the least, with many contradictions (see links below)

http://users.rcn.com/erics/Water%20Quality/Water%20FAQ.pdf - Jim Schulman's Insanely long water FAQ

http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/brita-water-filters-protecting-your-espresso-machine-from-limescale - Slightly confusing post suggesting that Brita filters may be ok for use in Espresso Machines

http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/how-to-use-an-espresso-machine - Later post stating that Volvic should be used as Brita filters do not reduce hardness (contradicting their earlier post)


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## Colnago Master (May 6, 2014)

Thanks chaps. Not the answer I was hoping for but not surprised. Using a Brita did seem too easy. I shall read up a bit more. If using a Brita goes halfway to solving the problem I may still just go with that. Using bottled water may be too expensive.


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

It's worth noting that the cost difference is negligible when you factor in that the filters do not much more than 3 weeks depending on use. Brita recommend that the cartridge is good for 100 litres of water but this is base on a water hardness of 12 (degrees Clarke) but Reading for example has a hardness of 23 so it really depends on how hard your water is. Some users say that after only 2 weeks the amount of softening effect the filter has is less than half of when it was new.

I buy 6 packs of Volvic for about £3 which is 9 litres of water.

Brita Maxtra(RRP) costs around £4 per cartridge and could produce around 50 litres of water.

So that's 33p per litre for Volvic against 8p/ per litre for a Brita filter.

Definitely looks cheaper to have a brita jug but the savings are negligable when you look at consumption, assuming i have 3 double espresso's per day using Volvic costs me about 25p a day and a six pack should last me 18 days (this is including 2 cooling flushes for my HX machine). Over a year this is about £60 on bottled water. Brita Filters for the year would cost me around £30-50 depending on deals etc. So yes could save half as much but i don't think £30 in a year is a huge compromise! Don't forget to factor in costs (and labour time) of descaling if you do have some build up and the initial cost of the jug in the first place.

Another thing to consider if you are being geeky is that if you use bottled water you have removed a variable as you know the water will always be the same as it is from the same source. With a filter it's efficacy is being reduced every time you use it so you're water's composition will not be as stable.

My recommendation is to use volvic for your espresso machine and a brita filter for your kettle when making pour overs etc. Best of both worlds then! Also could be a good experiment (might do it myself actually) to buy a Brita kettle from new and replace the cartridges according to guidelines from Brita and see if any scale builds up over the course of a year. I know a boiler will get hotter than a kettle but would be a good indication if you have no scale after a year in your kettle.

Sorry for the rant, on my night shift and was bored, and now tired!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

big dan said:


> Another thing to consider if you are being geeky is that if you use bottled water you have removed a variable as you know the water will always be the same as it is from the same source.


Not true, apparently. Spence, the forum's resident water geek, has found bottled water to be quite variable


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Interesting Jeebsy, do you know what brands he tested?

I found a couple of tests done on Volvic water over the last few years and they have been relatively close.

Of course i wouldn't be surprised if some companies were just filing up the bottles from any old tap, i mean source!









Maybe we should get Spence in here to sort things out properly!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Yeah, get @xpenno on the thread - he'll be abe to give you the down low more clearly than i ever will


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## Colnago Master (May 6, 2014)

Descaler is cheap. Maybe the best bet is to keep on top of the lime scale by descaling more often and just use tap water?


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

Colnago Master said:


> Descaler is cheap. Maybe the best bet is to keep on top of the lime scale by descaling more often and just use tap water?


The issue is not just scale, it's taste too. Like with whiskey, the water used to prepare coffee contributes to the taste profile. FWIW I use Volvic too. The tap water in Norwich is rubbish (for hardness, CaCO3 and coffee making ;-).


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Colnago Master said:


> Descaler is cheap. Maybe the best bet is to keep on top of the lime scale by descaling more often and just use tap water?


Have a look in your kettle, is it scaled?

The supermarket own brand waters are ~20p/litre. See if you can detect a taste difference too?


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## bscott (Mar 8, 2015)

Are the Brita Purity C filters more effective than the jug filters?

I was hoping to be able to plumb in my (yet to be acquired) machine using something like the C500.

My tap water is Calcium Carbonate: 309 mg/l, Alkalinity 245 mg/l, pH 7.3, TDS 345 mg/l according to the latest published water quality data for my supply zone. Would a Brita Purity C500 be suitable?


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Well I have been using a Brita jug which I bought about a couple of weeks into getting my machine. I just popped out for a few things and bought two big bottles of Volvic as it was two for a £1.

Have new bags of rested beans at home so gonna open one and do a comparison....remembering to flush through the old before trying the bottled.

I may have to wait till the weekend though or I'll be up all night.....for the sake of a quid its gotta be worth a try.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

bscott said:


> Are the Brita Purity C filters more effective than the jug filters?
> 
> I was hoping to be able to plumb in my (yet to be acquired) machine using something like the C500.
> 
> My tap water is Calcium Carbonate: 309 mg/l, Alkalinity 245 mg/l, pH 7.3, TDS 345 mg/l according to the latest published water quality data for my supply zone. Would a Brita Purity C500 be suitable?


I can't speak for Brita, but I'd recommend giving BWT a call. They gave me some good advice on home filtration systems that I currently have my trigger finger hovering over. Not particularly expensive either when you factor in the cost of bottled water, and the convenience factor is obvious.

Looks like you have quite hard water. Would be worth getting figures for permanent hardness and temporary hardness. It would also be worth getting a drop test kit for you water - you will probably want to measure it before and after to check that you're getting the results you want.


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

bscott said:


> Are the Brita Purity C filters more effective than the jug filters?
> 
> I was hoping to be able to plumb in my (yet to be acquired) machine using something like the C500.
> 
> My tap water is Calcium Carbonate: 309 mg/l, Alkalinity 245 mg/l, pH 7.3, TDS 345 mg/l according to the latest published water quality data for my supply zone. Would a Brita Purity C500 be suitable?


My readings are similar, slightly softer but not much.

I've bought a c300 and an adjustable filter head, the 3/500 etc is the size of the filter, the bigger the filter the more it can process before being changed.

I tested the water with a brita drop test which took 18 drops to change colour, which according to the install manual means I need to set the filter to 30% which will last for 3,500 litres (5,900 if it was the 500)

I just need a few bits of kit to arrive so that I can plumb it in and test again, if the life calculation is correct then it will cost me £0.02p a litre.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Chockymonster said:


> My readings are similar, slightly softer but not much.
> 
> I've bought a c300 and an adjustable filter head, the 3/500 etc is the size of the filter, the bigger the filter the more it can process before being changed.
> 
> ...


Would be very interested to hear how it compares with bottled water in terms of cup quality and flavour - would be great if you could post back your findings


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

My machine came with a BWT filter to fit in the inlet in the tank and this has put me in two minds as to what I should do going forward - I'm also using Volvic since I had a whole stack of it in... could be total overkill.

I should imagine the cost of swapping out the BWT softeners every couple months is roughly on a par to always running Volvic through it, so not sure what option is better moving forward.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Colnago Master said:


> Descaler is cheap. Maybe the best bet is to keep on top of the lime scale by descaling more often and just use tap water?


Not sure about this?

It is highly frowned on by Londinium for one.

As others have said, water affects flavour too.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Mister_Tad said:


> My machine came with a BWT filter to fit in the inlet in the tank and this has put me in two minds as to what I should do going forward - I'm also using Volvic since I had a whole stack of it in... could be total overkill.
> 
> I should imagine the cost of swapping out the BWT softeners every couple months is roughly on a par to always running Volvic through it, so not sure what option is better moving forward.


Volvic is not overkill - it's one of the best for taste (espresso) and won't kill your machine. For pour over and other brewed coffee Volvic is overkill - Waitrose essential is one of the best if you are close to a Waitrose.


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## Colio07 (Mar 9, 2015)

sjenner said:


> Not sure about this?
> 
> It is highly frowned on by Londinium for one.
> 
> As others have said, water affects flavour too.


Hi Stephen, can't seem to access the Londinium link - permission denied. Can you summarise what it says? Presumably, use bottled water rather than descaling, but any rationale / explanation? Not that I necessarily disagree, just interested to know what it says (and, by extension, whether there are any particular issues with descaling a Londinium).

Thanks.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Colio07 said:


> Hi Stephen, can't seem to access the Londinium link - permission denied. Can you summarise what it says? Presumably, use bottled water rather than descaling, but any rationale / explanation? Not that I necessarily disagree, just interested to know what it says (and, by extension, whether there are any particular issues with descaling a Londinium).
> 
> Thanks.


OK... Here is the relevant comment from Reiss:



> The L1 is a compact commercial espresso machine; the only way to properly descale it is by removing the boiler and then disassembling the boiler so the descaler can effectively clean the heat exchanger
> 
> For this reason I have stressed from day one: don't let limescale into your L1
> 
> ...


Not very practical to descale an L1, other machines may be a lot simpler to descale... But he goes on to suggest that the chemicals themselves are destructive.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I've been buying Ashbeck 6 packs since I bought the Gaggia. I make 2 to 3 milky coffees on an evening so not that bad.


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

Phil104 said:


> Volvic is not overkill - it's one of the best for taste (espresso) and won't kill your machine. For pour over and other brewed coffee Volvic is overkill - Waitrose essential is one of the best if you are close to a Waitrose.


What I mean is, I wonder if using Volvic plus a BWT softener as well is overkill.

I'm leaning towards simply not replacing the filter when its served its useful life in a month or so, but to carry on using Volvic.


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## Colnago Master (May 6, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Where are you based? Just seen Surrey so water probably quite hard. Bottled might be best, jug filters aren't that effective


I'm in Surrey as well.

Ive had my Gaggia a few years and always descaled it thinking that was the right thing to do. We drink a lot of coffee so volvic will cost me a bit. Better late than never I suppose. I have had my machine apart once unblocking it.

Are we saying only volvic will do the job? I never realised coffee was so complicated and pricey. I haven't even got round to having freshly roasted delivered yet. Waiting for my grinder to be delivered.


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

It's not all that bad, 18l for £5.50 at the moment at Sainsburys. 18l is a lot of espresso...


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

Mister_Tad said:


> It's not all that bad, 18l for £5.50 at the moment at Sainsburys. 18l is a lot of espresso...


It's always that price from Sainsbury's









That said, it's not just 30ml per drink, since water is consumed in steaming, cleaning, flushing etc. I reckon I average a bit less than 2L/week based on ~2 milky drinks per day


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Just for reference I tend to use 2 1.5 litre bottles a week. Quite a lot of mine though is the flush which is around 200ml! Might have to look at turning my pressure stat down a touch!


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## Colnago Master (May 6, 2014)

We mostly drink longer coffees. I shall monitor just how much water we use.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

big dan said:


> Interesting Jeebsy, do you know what brands he tested?
> 
> I found a couple of tests done on Volvic water over the last few years and they have been relatively close.
> 
> ...


Lol, I never sort anything out properly, I usually end up not answering the questions and if anything generating more unnecessary problems, it's a real life skill.

I tested evian, volvic, clearview, ashbeck and waitrose. The only tests that I had the equipment to run were Hardness, Alkalinity (both of which are not massively accurate to be honest) and TDS. I now have a pH meter but I don't have all the water to test again. I found differences between bottle and label as well as between bottles of the same brand, some differences were big and some not so, evain was miles out for example.

The problem with water sourced from the ground is that it depends on how much it rains and what path the water took through the mineral beds etc... there can be big variances. The water from my tap changes if it rains heavily in Wales...

Some brands distil the water and then re-introduce minerals which should match the label, the problem is that these are not in-line with what is ideal for coffee.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Colnago Master said:


> I'm in Surrey as well.
> 
> Ive had my Gaggia a few years and always descaled it thinking that was the right thing to do. We drink a lot of coffee so volvic will cost me a bit. Better late than never I suppose. I have had my machine apart once unblocking it.
> 
> Are we saying only volvic will do the job? I never realised coffee was so complicated and pricey. I haven't even got round to having freshly roasted delivered yet. Waiting for my grinder to be delivered.


Coffee is like most things, it's as complicated or as costly as you want to make it









I've clearly got nothing better to do with my time so I make it complicated, I'm a scientist (theoretically) so I like to know what's going on and strive for perfection, the problem with coffee is that nobody knows what perfection is and it will never be reached.... I also like shiny things so that doesn't help with the cost side of things either.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Colnago Master said:


> Descaler is cheap. Maybe the best bet is to keep on top of the lime scale by descaling more often and just use tap water?


You are best off not having to descale if possible. The recommendation is to use water that sits just under the limits that cause scale, this gives you the best of both worlds, taste vs de-scaling. You should probably still de-scale once every 6-12 months though. The problem is finding the right water....

I still think that it's possible to get scaling with Volvic (although I'm happy to be proven wrong on this) albeit much lower than high mineral content tap water. When boiled, water composition changes and if you have high Alkalinity (50mg/L or over) then some of your calcium will precipitate out as CaCO3 and the water will try to head towards 50mg/L (I think that's number anyway). Volvic has 60mg/L alkalinity and should in theory precipitate some CaCO3 out when it boils as the water tries to move back to its 'preferred' state. The only thing I'm not sure about is the effect that the boiler pressure has on the process.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Xpenno said:


> Coffee is like most things, *it's as complicated or as costly as you want to make it*


Life, decisions to do with and living in general should have the above quote applied. I vote Xpenno for el president!!!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Oh dear. So should I be buying volvic, ashbeck or waitrose essentials? Or something else? Confused again.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jonc said:


> Oh dear. So should I be buying volvic, ashbeck or waitrose essentials? Or something else? Confused again.


Any of the above, then go by taste.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey All

This has been a very interesting thread.

I have a TDS meter, as I need to manage TDS in my fish tanks.

My tap water comes out of the tap at about 40ppm for TDS but as we are quite near the treatment plant the chlorine content is very high.

So, I run my water through a Brita filter which brings the TDS down to about 15ppm.

Is this going to be a problem for my machine? I had read elsewhere on here about low TDS potential being hostile towards boiler walls etc.

Thanks

Aaron


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## Colio07 (Mar 9, 2015)

Aaron, afraid I can't speak to whether very low TDS causes problems with machines. But I do know that getting the lowest TDS shouldn't be the primary goal if you're looking for good-tasting espresso. As Xpenno indicated, there's a balance between getting water that will contribute to good-tasting coffee and avoiding de-scaling. Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood has done some work on this with University of Bath scientists (http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/2014/06/05/coffee-chemistry/). Unfortunately there's no single perfect water for all types of coffee beans, but there is a need for some dissolved solids (especially Mg and Ca) to both extract desirable elements from the coffee and act as a buffer for the acids. A more approachable (if somewhat lengthy) discussion of this was given by the man himself in a Tamper Tantrum lecture (http://www.tampertantrum.com/maxwell-colonna-dashwood-tamper-tantrum-birmingham-2014/).

Hope that helps a bit, anyway.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

I know we all have different views on cost/value/worth etc but:

Coffee = say £15 per kilo = say 15g a shot so 67ish shots say 22p a shot (obviously not all coffee is £15 so multiply accordingly and obviously you do get some wastage dialling in, use bigger doses etc)

Volvic = say 60p per 1.5 litre = say 6 shots per bottle so 10p a shot (I am guessing that you should get at least 1 shot per 250ml)

So if buying coffee at the cheap end and Volvic by the bottle I wouldn't have thought that it was the cost that should put you off!

So once you factor in higher end coffee and bulk buys for water (plus I bet you get more than 6 from 1.5 litres).......

Wether you want to faff about with bottles etc is a separate question..... but a lot of us faff about with making shots a lot more than pouring a bottle into the machine every 1/2 dozen shots.....

It seems that lots of people shell out multiple hundreds (even thousands) on Machines, still more on grinders...

It seems pretty odd to worry about a few pence on water......


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Couldn't agree more Drewster. I have an expensive Rocket in my kitchen why not use water that won't scale. No brainer for me









https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdceB3SKBw9w&ei=7m0PVf7HFc6AadnBgrgH&usg=AFQjCNFdSyLQwqjgiUBIjTUqcaTuamjeHw&sig2=UV17Q0d_tiMmLyyqFTzOBw&bvm=bv.88528373,d.d2s


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

I have just had a reply from someone (won't go into details but they are who you would think you should ask) I sent an email about something different and mentioned using bottled water and the Brita I have.

To my surprise after reading and commenting in this thread they came back with that using bottled water is a no no as its high in calcium and will clog my machine...........I mentioned I had tried bottled in particular Volvic and also a Brita jug.

Gaaaaahh! I am so easily confused!!!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Sk8 it depends which bottled water. Some mineral waters are super high in Ca+ and should be avoided. Volvic is said to be close to ideal in mineral composition and pH. Tezzies Ashbeck and the Waitrose one are said to be close but cheaper. I use Ashbeck but in fairness I haven't tried the others as I live next to Tesco and they do Ashbeck by the 5 litre mega bottle complete with carry handle!


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Sk8-bizarre said:


> I have just had a reply from someone (won't go into details but they are who you would think you should ask) I sent an email about something different and mentioned using bottled water and the Brita I have.
> 
> To my surprise after reading and commenting in this thread they came back with that using bottled water is a no no as its high in calcium and will clog my machine...........I mentioned I had tried bottled in particular Volvic and also a Brita jug.
> 
> Gaaaaahh! I am so easily confused!!!


There are many bottled waters, some have high calcium content, some have low, I'm not sure I'd trust anyone who makes a sweeping statement saying you shouldn't use bottled water in a coffee machine.....

I have a blog site where I post stuff that I think most people probably wouldn't care about, this article might be of interest as it tells you how to read the labels of the bottled water and also makes comparisons to what we are aiming for.

http://grindscience.com/2015/02/interpreting-water-bottle-labels/

Here are the SCAA's recommended water specifications. They are based on optimising both taste and equipment longevity.

http://www.scaa.org/?page=resources&d=water-standards

The Jim Schulman water FAQ (google it) goes into great detail about what levels of Calcium Hardness and Alkalinity generate what amount of scale and at what temperature.

Between that lot you should be armed with everything you need to know about water from the technical standpoint, taste/body etc is another story altogether


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Yup the Jim Schumann link is in my first reply. Volvic is fine but be careful of other bottled waters as mineral content varies massively!


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Thanks chaps.

Yeah I won't go into what I was emailing about as it isn't really related to this thread but mentioned the the types of water I was using as a sidelined bit of info for them. It's just the fact I mentioned Volvic specifically and the reply I got of not to use bottled water in general or to quote "bottled water is a no no it is very high in calcium and will clog your machine up" making me think conflicting information!!! Panic my poor new little machine ahhhhhh etc etc.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Volvic is low in Calcium, avoid waters like Badiot, Vittel, Ballygowan, Evian. If you go much lower than Volvic, Essential Waitrose, Ashbeck, you'll struggle to get what you need out of the coffee. Some bottled waters are absurdly low in Calcium, like Deeside & Duchy originals - they still come in bottles ;-)


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## MrVanilla (Aug 31, 2016)

Jon said:


> Oh dear. So should I be buying volvic, ashbeck or waitrose essentials? Or something else? Confused again.


Confused here too but I'll now be buying bottled for my new machine!


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

I was going to try one of those small filters which attach to the inlet hose in the reservoir. Anyone tried it? We don't have Volvic here so I use a local bottled water, any geeks out there like to comment on the values?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

According to this: http://users.rcn.com/erics/Water%20Quality/Water%20FAQ.pdf, and this: http://londiniumcoffee.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/best-water-for-your-espresso-machine.html, this water is waaaaaaayyyy soft. Makes me wonder whether those values are actually true.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Too soft and it'll not make nice coffee.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Ah! Okay then, there are other bottled water suppliers here so I'll look at their values. But which values should I look at and what kind of range should they be in? I'm not a techie but which values on the image I posted above should I be weary of. I suppose I could get a test strip to see if my current bottled water analysis is accurate.

Much appreciated.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Look for bicarbonate around 50mg/l to 75mg/l label values.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

This is quite an interesting and easy to ready article about water hardness for the non techies!.

http://www.mrwa.com/WaterWorksMnl/Chapter%2015%20Hardness.pdf


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## lotuseater (Dec 25, 2015)

I use Volvic.

It also tastes good for general drinking.


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## coffeeaddict1 (Aug 29, 2016)

I live at a place with bad water that that won't work well with my machine.. *BUT* My machine even has a water filter feature, and I use it all the time.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

But does it do anything? Most of these resin filter things don't do much to reduce scale, and are exhausted after a week. Trust them at your peril.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I use either volvic or a volvic and waitroise essentials mix (50:50). For the machine both are better than using hard water (if you're in a hard water area) but you'll still have to descale every few months as they still produce scale.

something like tesco's ash beck is softer but the coffee doesn't taste as good imo.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Too hard now?

An Italian import

DATI NUTRIZIONALIPER LITRO DI ACQUA VITASNELLA


CALORIE0 kcal● Bicarbonato315 mg● Calcio85 mg● Solfato85 mg● Magnesio34 mg● Sodio3,4 mg● Fluoruro0,3 mg● Potassio1,5 mg● Nitrati4,5 mg● Cloruro4 mg● Minerali disciolti totali (residuo fisso a 180°C)396 mgAnalisi effettuate dall'Università di Pavia.

Dipartimento di Chimica Generale, 8 giugno 2016 


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Yep. :-( Why not try the water you mentioned above (the too soft one) and see how it tastes? Or, maybe mix them both? (Maybe 3 parts of the soft one to 1 part of the hard one?)


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

pessutojr said:


> Yep. :-( Why not try the water you mentioned above (the too soft one) and see how it tastes? Or, maybe mix them both? (Maybe 3 parts of the soft one to 1 part of the hard one?)


Thank you, I'm still a newbie with my machine and grinder. No two cups the same......yet!!

Also I'm trying to find out about the local roasted coffee beans for freshness etc. There are a couple of roaster in Malta. But to be on the safe side I have just ordered some nice roasted beans from roasters in Brighton.

But I think mixing bottled waters, as you suggest, 3:1 will hopefully be a reasonably solution going forward.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Bear in mind I am no expert in water mixing/taste etc. I use Tesco's Ashbeck which yields a good compromise of cost, scale build up (none after 1 year) and taste. Now, on a Silvia, descaling is much easier, so, even if the water will cause scale build up, a regular descaling on the Silvia is easy enough and takes 1 hour at most.


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## kostona (Aug 15, 2014)

another thumbs up for Tesco's Ashbeck water. The same as previous poster I used it for 18 month and no scale built up at all! very pleased!


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Regarding the Britta jugs I've been using one for the last 7 months and live in a very hard water area (352mg/l aka 24.5deg Clarke), and had previously been descaling my kettle about once/ week.It wasn't a thick layer after a week but was thick enough to be breaking off and leaving grit in the bottom. Having been on the Britta Maxtra I can say that for 2 of the 3 weeks (average life is supposedly 4 weeks but I've found the indicator shows to replace every 3) it removes all trace of scale that would normally be left in the kettle as scale. For the last week the gleaming kettle starts to look slightly milky, only slightly but there is a change. If I do the unthinkable and go past the point where it says to renew the cartridge, then I will get a think film and it will break off when boiling.

There are many on here who can better interpret that into the chemical composition of the water going into my kettle but I'd suggest that if you were to use filter jug like the Britta ones with an indicator, you'd want to replace cartridges when it's either just turned to 25% or perhaps a day or two after it turns to 50%, that would likely stop scaling in the boiler but does increase cost.


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

I use Volvic. Ashbeck seems tend to be a bit too acidic for my taste, but YMMV.


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## crlbt (Jan 1, 2015)

Is it ok to use tap water in Scotland in terms of scale build up? My water report says that the Calcium level is about 5.53 mg/l which is half of Volvic's, Magnesium - 0.69 mg/l . It's a pain to get Volvic from Saisburys which is far away and my local shop sells it for £1 a bottle. I have Tesco near me, but they don't sell Ashbeck, only Highland Spring, with Calcium about 60 mg/l and Perthshire. I don't think I will notice any difference in taste, just want to be sure it's safe for the machine. I was using a kettle with tap water for about 5 years and it looks brand new inside, but I only use it about once a week on average.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Water isn't just about scale , it's about its ability to make tasty coffee . Soft water might not be great for getting sweetness out of your coffee , just order bulk water off the net from a supermarket


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@crlbt can you find out how much bicarbonate your tap water has? It may be possible to boost the mineral content by adding some harder water (like Highland Spring, or Tesco Perthshire) to it.

Or, if very soft it may make a good base for you add minerals yourself.

SCAE recently published a paper on water for coffee machines with boilers http://scae.com/images/pdfs/SCAE-water-chart-report.pdf very soft water is also less than ideal.


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## crlbt (Jan 1, 2015)

People on fish forum say that Ph is about 7 - 8. That's all I know.

Ordering water doesn't make a big difference, I don't have space to store lots of packs, if I order 3 packs at a time (6 bottles each), the price including delivery would be very close to £1 per bottle.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Sorry, nothing useful for me there.

Once we know where we are you might find you only need to add a little mineral water to your tap water?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Glasgow (I'm assuming that's your location) water is famed for being soft. You will have no scaling issues as you have discovered with your kettle.


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