# Major shot problems...



## sarobin (Feb 5, 2013)

Having a steep learning curve here with the Rocket Giotto / Eureka Mignon, and need some advice before I completely tear my hair out









Firstly, I'm a bit confused about the basket sizes that came with the Giotto.

I have:

1 single spout PF

1 double spout PF

1 Rocket naked portafilter (purchased separately)

Now, I assumed that the single spout basket being the smaller of the two was a single dose. However, today when weighing 8gms of coffee, it evidently isn't as it's so little in the basket you can't even tamp it. So, I upped the dose to around 15gms which still doesn't come above the top of the basket but once tamped comes just below the ridged line. Does that sound correct? If so, this means the double spout basket holds double this, equalling a "quadruple" shot?

OK, on to the main issue - the actual dialling in - I've been using the single spout basket with 15gms coffee to make 2oz shot for this test. I'm really confused with the results:

1) On quite a coarse grind, I get the 2oz shot in about 30 secs, but the taste is extremely sour (the machine's been on for 2 hours, so it must be up to temp).

2) As I get finer with the grind, the results are gradually less and less sour until I get something that's not sour, but bitter (bearing in mind I'm used to Americanos rather than espresso) - 2oz in 1min20secs!! This is as fine as I could go without choking the brewhead.

This just doesn't seem at all right, and I'm at a loss to where I'm going wrong. Hope you can help!


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

You would be better weighing the output rather than going the 2oz volumetric route as I usually only get around 1.5 oz to get my preferred 1:6 ratio


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Stick with the double basket - its much much easier to work with. Assuming your distribution is even in the basket and your tamping with a consistant pressure each time....and you are using fresh-roast quality arabica coffee

Fix your dose - a stock double basket would have seen me using 16-17g coffee. That means 16-17g in the basket prior to tamping. Accuracy to 0.1 is required, trust me!

Aim for an output in a set time. Lets say 28g in 28 seconds. You need to tare the scale with the empty cup.

So pull a shot , stop when you reach 28g on the scales (how long did it take?)

If it took 20 seconds then make the grind finer (still taste this under extracted shot you might like it)

If it took 50 seconds then make the grind more coarse. (still taste this over extracted shot you might like it)

Time is off less issue than input versus output. Forget volume and think about weight - good espresso is a recipe starting with a ratio of 1.6 give or take


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## sarobin (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks Gary for that explanation - I'll give that a go later - had too much coffee this morning already!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

sarobin said:


> had too much coffee this morning already!


Or maybe not enough? he he


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

What beans are you using?


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

Great advice above. My one comment would be - the Giotto is an HX isnt it? Are you consistent in your cooling flush? Too hot brew water will produce bitter espresso and too cold sour.

Therefore messing with the length of your cooling flush you could also tweak the taste once you get the desired ratio of beans to coffee you are after.

HTH.


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## sarobin (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm using Garraway's Roma beans, although they are a few months old now so obviously that doesn't help (although I'm not sure which way that would sway things - too sour or too bitter, etc.?)

Yes the Giotto is an HX, and I'm running off about 100ml cooling flush.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

beans are definitely a problem. move to fresher stuff and experiment. you then have a better base for consistency and taste.


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## sarobin (Feb 5, 2013)

I'm interested to know what the effect of old beans would be (apart from not being as "good") on the dialing in.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Sometimes when they get stale, they pour relatively faster than they would do when fresh.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I second ditching the single and dialling in with the double basket.

Dial in with the beans you intend to use. Once you're in the ballpark only small tweaks should be required throughout the bag.

The Eureka Mignon is a capable grinder so you shouldn't have any issues there.

Try adding slightly more coffee. This may improve things too. If there is too little then the shot could take longer.


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