# Sage Barista Touch Extraction Issues



## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

Hi Everyone,

Much like many of the other Barista Touch users on this forum, I too am having extraction problems. Having followed some of the great advice on here, I'm not paying any attention to the 8-12 seconds start time (it's 4 seconds every time for me) and I'm taking time to weigh my beans before the grind - the beans are fresh, from one of my favourite local companies.

However despite numerous failed attempts at grind experimentation, I am no where near the nice slow , honey-like pour that I am seeing from other people's machines and the coffee is either bitter or burnt. Does anyone have any ideas? Could this be a machine fault? I'm considering returning the Barista Touch in exchange for another Sage machine - I'm not sure if mine is faulty or if my expectations are too high. Would anyone recommend any of the other models over this one? Similar price bracket preferably.

Thanks,

Jan


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Weigh beans after grind to nearest 0.1g , set a dose appropriate to the basket.

Make a shot , what weight out are you aiming for ( example only 17g in 34 g out for instance ) if you are not weighing out the shot and stopping it by a brew ratio then you need to be. This is more important than the visual clues you are currently using

What is the coffee and how fresh ? What basket are you using ...

You refer to numerous attempts but we have no data to help you, just you have tried making shots and not enjoyed them.

It's unlikely to be the machine, so do not aim for golden honey like pours, this are visual noise and can be based on coffee type and roast etc etc etc .

So try again

Weigh dose in of to nearest 0.1g , weight out shot, note time , taste , report back . Ignore the visuals from other you tube videos.


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## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

Hi Jan,

Which roaster are you using for your beans and how freshly roasted are the beans?

If they have been roasted in the past few days it's difficult to dial them in for a consistent pour, generally they improve if you rest them for a week or even two (time depending on the beans) in my experience.


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## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

Hi!

It's called International Women's Co-Operative Farmers - I get it from a company called the Ouseburn Coffee Co. here in Newcastle. The date is 6th March, details below!

*Countr**y - Sumatra*

*
**Region - Gayo Highlands, Central Aceh*

*
**Farm - 970 women smallholder members of Ketiara Cooperative*

*
**Variety - Bourbon, Catimor, Caturra, Typica*

*
**Altitude - 1200-1700 masl*

*
**Proc. Method - Wet-Hulled*



*
*


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## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

Hi,

The coffee is called International Women's Co-Operative Farmers - I get it from a company called the Ouseburn Coffee Co. here in Newcastle. The date is 6th March, details below! I'm currently using a double shot basket. Is 17g to 34g for a single shot or a double shot? 34g currently comes out in around 10 seconds, thats on the finest grind for the machine. It tastes bitter.

*Countr**y - Sumatra*

*
**Region - Gayo Highlands, Central Aceh*

*
**Farm - 970 women smallholder members of Ketiara Cooperative*

*
**Variety - Bourbon, Catimor, Caturra, Typica*

*
**Altitude - 1200-1700 masl*

*
**Proc. Method - Wet-Hulled*


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

janpod87 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The coffee is called International Women's Co-Operative Farmers - I get it from a company called the Ouseburn Coffee Co. here in Newcastle. The date is 6th March, details below! I'm currently using a double shot basket. Is 17g to 34g for a single shot or a double shot? 34g currently comes out in around 10 seconds, thats on the finest grind for the machine. It tastes bitter.
> 
> ...


17g dose is a double shot, always.

You're weighing your beans before the grind, what about after - in the portafilter before you pull the shot.

If a 17g dose takes 10s to give 34g out, you need to adjust the grinder to go finer (see the manual) and/or use a bigger dose (18 or 19g) and pull more weight out in 20 or more seconds.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How have you stored your coffee since you bought it


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## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

Oh okay, I didn't weigh after, but I'll try that next time. Unfortunately that was on the finest grind, a 1. Which seems odd.


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## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

Just in the cupboard in it's bag. I've only had the coffee for 4 days or so.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

janpod87 said:


> Oh okay, I didn't weigh after, but I'll try that next time. Unfortunately that was on the finest grind, a 1. Which seems odd.


Don't these machines have an internal, large interval adjustment, that can then be fine tuned with the external adjuster?


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## hummel89 (Dec 7, 2018)

Finest grind on the machine and 10 second to full extraction... I had something similar.. although not as bad.. seems to me the beans aren't good.. in newcastle, try tynemouth coffee, or rountons in teesside. Othe finest grind.. the chances your coffee machine won't pull the shot with good beans.. Make sure you tamp it properly and finished tamp is nice and flat


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## jm-darcy (Feb 4, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Don't these machines have an internal, large interval adjustment, that can then be fine tuned with the external adjuster?


If you lift the 'non-rotating' part of the grinder mechanism (upper burr) out of the machine (lift up the wire handle and rotate to the unlock position), you should see an adjustment on there saying coarser or finer. Sounds like you need to go one or two notches finer - default setting is 6 I believe.

This adjustment is far easier to do without any beans in between the burrs, so remove what you can with fingers/vacuum and run any remnants through the grinder (i.e. it grinds off anything left and spins up freely) so that the parts will separate easily.


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## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

I ended up returning the machine. Really wasn't impressed with the extra outlay in cash for the sake of the touchscreen. Any suggestions on a replacement? Stick with Sage? Jump to something else? Cheers for your help so far people.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

janpod87 said:


> I ended up returning the machine. Really wasn't impressed with the extra outlay in cash for the sake of the touchscreen. Any suggestions on a replacement? Stick with Sage? Jump to something else? Cheers for your help so far people.


What's your budget? Sage do seem well liked but ultimately everyone seems to move on from them.

I think it's just a build quality/longevity/aesthetic thing


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

janpod87 said:


> I ended up returning the machine. Really wasn't impressed with the extra outlay in cash for the sake of the touchscreen. Any suggestions on a replacement? Stick with Sage? Jump to something else? Cheers for your help so far people.


In some ways it depends on how much automation you want and preferences on looks. Some want Italian bling and purely manual use some such as me doesn't want either. Sage have there good points in that respect for me.

No matter what machine people buy they do need looking after and the hardness of the water coming out of the tap needs considering. One person for instance takes a high end manual machine for service every 2 years and only uses certain makes of bottled water in it. Some back flush weekly. Some don't do this sort of things often enough and eventually have problems. Descaling of many machines needs a spanner. One good thing about Sage is that this is easy to do on all of them. Bad thing - having run a dual boiler on very soft tap water the machine doesn't tell me to descale often enough. It also doesn't tell me to back flush with a cleaning cycle often enough either. If I changed the filter in the machine as often as I should perhaps it would tell me to descale at the right time. Only the DB and Oracles do that. I mostly use a bean that needs very fine grinding - might explain more frequent back flushing being needed but doubt it.

Repairs when needed wont be cheap when an engineer does the work. Sage have an additional problem with that - engineers are loosely speaking in the very south midlands. A repair can mean paying for a lot of hours of travel time. They wont sell parts for DIY repairs any more but some things can be obtained. Unlike more conventional machines it's not so easy to take covers off and check what is going on inside. Water leaks can be spotted that way before they cause major problems.

I haven't heard much in the line of their thermothingy machines having problems other than the seal on the water tank connection. Doesn't seem to happen on the boiler machines probably because most fill them with a jug or bottle if using bottled water. The dual boiler machines have problems with O ring seals eventually. Seems to take over 3 years of use. All seem to have scale problems at times. Hard to say if that is down to maintenance or what. I remember some one saying they wouldn't descale as that is when DB's have problems - not doing it will cause the problem he is worried about. Having used a Barista Express for a while and noticing certain things I would descale thermothingy machines once a month. It's quick on these unlike the boiler machines.

Built in grinders on Barista Express variants seem to have caused a few people problems from day one lately. Odd. It should easily choke the machine. John Lewis told some one to use pressurised baskets. Shows how much they know. good way of getting some one to go away. Haven't heard any similar complaints about Oracles that use essentially the same grinder. The grinder may have just needed adjusting but that does need doing with some care. I understand that adjustments have sometimes stuck - that's a fault and might be bought on by misuse - too big and adjustment at any time. Sages problem really. That aspect aught to be in the manuals.








You takes your pick really. I reckon all routes have a bit of a compromise one way or the other even if it's just higher and higher prices.

John

-


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

The Glasgow coffee show voucher (elsewhere on this forum) means you could get a DB for £750 if you want to stick with a Sage, or a DTP for not a lot at all. Both give you an excuse to buy a grinder too








(and the voucher works for them as well....)


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## janpod87 (Apr 18, 2019)

Probably a similar budget to the touch - though I'd prefer to pay less if I'm honest. Ideally around the 500-600 mark!


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