# Weird problem, I'm lost....



## Blerkselmans (Mar 29, 2016)

I have a very strange problem with my Isomac Zaffiro (less than a year old) , before returning to the shop I really would like to hear the thoughts from the experts on this forum.

Until this issue I was very happy with the shots I delivered, overall consistent good and sometimes great coffee taking about 30-35 seconds for a shot.

But about 2 weeks ago I had to start setting my grinder (manual, Lido 2) finer and finer because the shot took less and less time until last week where grinding took me almost 2 minutes (and a sour arm) and the shot just flows through the coffee in less than 10 seconds time. I use a naked pf and it's all over the place.

During this shot the pressure meter of the machine shows no more than ~5 bar.

Didn't make any changes to pressure/temperature or other. I can only remember that it started after I cleansed the machine (backflushing using Puro) which I do about once every 3 weeks.

The meter on the machine shows about 9.5-10 bar on a blind filter. Also checked using a pf with a pressure meter, shows ~9.5 bar. Like it does from the start (after adjusting the OPV back from 12 bar in the first week after purchase).

I switched to different coffee (3 times), no effect. Also changed pf basket, no effect. Borrowed a grinder from a friend (also Lido), same problem. And now I ran out of ideas.

I hope I am overlooking the obvious here but I need your help to point me in the right direction. Thank you for any useful information.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I have an Isomac Alba, think very similar internals etc, from what you are describing I would have said very stale beans, the fact you have tried three bean types should rule this out unless you aren't using fresh beans. My machine brews at about 9.5 bar also so this is the same, the only thing I can think of is the grinds are not fine enough. Have never encountered this om my Isomac and cannot think what would cause the water through the puck quicker


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What does the grind look and feel like....


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## Blerkselmans (Mar 29, 2016)

mremanxx said:


> I would have said very stale beans


I agree, the coffee is the main suspect. I am using fresh beans (well, according to the seller, they roast their beans themselves). I must admit that I switched coffee 3 times but they were all from the same batch I bought about 3 weeks ago. The shop isn't really around the corner.

Can stale beans really mean the difference between 30 and 10 seconds for a shot?



DavecUK said:


> What does the grind look and feel like....


It looks and feels how it is supposed to be. The grinder is now at a setting where the coffee is *really* fine. Checked it on a piece of white paper and it looks consistent as well.

I think I should go to the coffee store for new coffee. Maybe the beans I bought were from a bad/old batch....

Thanks so far.

Anyone has had a similar experience where stale beans showed the same (10 seconds for a shot, pressure not exceeding 5 bar)?


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

I'd say if the pressure is low there's far less resistance in the pf which is why the flow is so fast. Normal pressure with blind pf suggests the machine is fine.

Either the beans (easy to check) - or the grind (possibly the burrs have gone blunt?) for my money.


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## Blerkselmans (Mar 29, 2016)

Thank you all. Will buy a new bag of beans and let you know.


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## Blerkselmans (Mar 29, 2016)

Amazing.....

The difference between fresh and stale beans is not subtle, it's brutal!

It's the difference between a 10 seconds flood of bad coffee and a 30 seconds delicate flow of espresso.

The problem was indeed caused by the coffee itself but I never would have guessed that the difference was that big.

I went back to the shop, took the beans with me and they reproduced the same (bad) results with their grinder and machine.

Received their apologies and new coffee in return and all is well.

Many times I read about the importance of fresh beans and it turns out that even when you buy from a trusted, self-roasting professional coffee shop, there are no guarantees.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Good to see this problem has resolved itself - buying fresh beans is wise - 3 weeks is a long time for beans to decay. Storage could also be a factor.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Three week old beans shouldn't cause that much of a problem, would question when the roaster actually roasted them?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Three week old beans shouldn't cause that much of a problem, would question when the roaster actually roasted them?


I agree, in fact 2 month coffee will still extract perfectly OK.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Yeah, doesn't sound like old beans unless they're a couple of months gone. Could be poor storage or a really bad roast. Maybe old greens?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I had some greens that were 2 years post harvest, still roasted ok and pulled fine...

I'm thinking old roast and storage.


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## Blerkselmans (Mar 29, 2016)

I store my beans in cool, dry and dark in a closed can.

Response from the seller when he saw the coffee shower from his machine was also that he never saw this before. Other customers should have had this problem as well but he said this wasn't the case.

Oh well, I'm so happy I can enjoy my own coffee again. Two weeks of espresso is tough.....


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