# Brew Time on Gaggia Classic



## hbprism (Mar 24, 2021)

Hi there,

I recently purchased a Gaggia Classic. I am currently put in around 18g of coffee and extracting 36g out. However, the problem is that my total brew time from when I hit that brew switch is 10 seconds.

- My coffee grounds are quite fine

- Pressure is at around 9 bars

- Tamping fairly hard

Are there any other ways I could increase my brew time to hit that 25ish seconds?


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## Dusk (Feb 19, 2021)

If there's no channelling then it suggests you need to go finer with your grind


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

How does it taste? What coffee and grinder are you using? If you are using a lighter coffee it will pull faster and you should consider using a longer ratio. Not all coffees are at their best at 1:2 - I think this rule of thumb only really holds up for traditional espresso blends which is the origin of this particular dogma.

Take your grind finer until you choke the machine (no flow for 45s) and then work back by steps to hit target weight in the same time frame. Have a taste at that point and see what's going on - assuming even extraction if it tastes bitter go coarser and if sour go finer. You can then see the impact of grind on flow and then optimise the best taste (it could be 35s or it could be 22s, it really only matters to you).

If you're still unhappy with the taste consider that you maybe don't like that coffee, brew it as a french press and if you still don't like it you are unlikely to ever enjoy it as an espresso.


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## hbprism (Mar 24, 2021)

Unfortunately, I can't seem to go any finer with the grind settings. But the idea of channeling occurring is something I hadn't consider. What is the best way to get around this?

Also, I am currently using a double shot basket that came with the Gaggia Portafilter. Reckon it is worth the investment of purchasing a VST basket? Could this lead to a longer brew time as well do you think?


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

hbprism said:


> Unfortunately, I can't seem to go any finer with the grind settings. But the idea of channeling occurring is something I hadn't consider. What is the best way to get around this?
> 
> Also, I am currently using a double shot basket that came with the Gaggia Portafilter. Reckon it is worth the investment of purchasing a VST basket? Could this lead to a longer brew time as well do you think?


 No, precision baskets increase flow and force you to grind finer - what is the grinder you are using?


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## hbprism (Mar 24, 2021)

Kjk said:


> No, precision baskets increase flow and force you to grind finer - what is the grinder you are using?


 Ah apologies - I mis-typed! I currently get the coffee freshly ground from my local roaster who does grind it fairly fine. I am keen to place an order for the Sage Grinder Pro and hoping that this will allow me to go finer. Do you know much about this grinder and whether it is worth getting compared to others around similar price points?


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

hbprism said:


> Ah apologies - I mis-typed! I currently get the coffee freshly ground from my local roaster who does grind it fairly fine. I am keen to place an order for the Sage Grinder Pro and hoping that this will allow me to go finer. Do you know much about this grinder and whether it is worth getting compared to others around similar price points?


 I see for pre ground you need to use the pressurised basket and perfect crema pin. I don't know much about the grinder.

At that price point you could also consider a nice hand grinder? The 1zpresso JX Pro is espresso capable and opens up possibilities for manual brews and travel. You could also look at a Knock or Commandante but they are pricier options.


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## Davebo (Jan 9, 2021)

I'm looking at a Sage Grinder Pro also. It should give you fine enough results for a non-pressurised basket.

I'm currently using a (slightly) modified Cusinart burr grinder on its finest grind and getting decent results taste wise but an extraction time shorter than the accepted optimum (probably around 15-20s). My OPV is reduced but I am awaiting delivery of a pressure gauge to accurately assess it.

I'm using a Gaggia non-pressurised basket. Results are very different from the pressurised + crema pin.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

Davebo said:


> I'm looking at a Sage Grinder Pro also. It should give you fine enough results for a non-pressurised basket.
> 
> I'm currently using a (slightly) modified Cusinart burr grinder on its finest grind and getting decent results taste wise but an extraction time shorter than the accepted optimum (probably around 15-20s). My OPV is reduced but I am awaiting delivery of a pressure gauge to accurately assess it.
> 
> I'm using a Gaggia non-pressurised basket. Results are very different from the pressurised + crema pin.


 You need 15bar to use the pressurised basket (think of putting your thumb on the top of a garden hose). If you've set OPV too low you may only get a few drips, so a difference would be expected.


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## Dusk (Feb 19, 2021)

I have a Sage SGP, it can definitely go fine enough on fresh beans. I'm currently on setting 15 for some Extract Ruby beans. I have got closer to 1 on supermarket beans but it's always been able to go fine enough.

Worth noting it's not a stepped grinder adjustment, it tells you a number that equates to grind size but there are no steps on the adjustment knob. I assume it's a worm gear. You can adjust slightly within a given setting, I can go slightly coarser or finer within my current setting of 15 but you can't easily keep track of the precise setting within each number.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

Dusk said:


> I have a Sage SGP, it can definitely go fine enough on fresh beans. I'm currently on setting 15 for some Extract Ruby beans. I have got closer to 1 on supermarket beans but it's always been able to go fine enough.
> 
> Worth noting it's not a stepped grinder adjustment, it tells you a number that equates to grind size but there are no steps on the adjustment knob. I assume it's a worm gear. You can adjust slightly within a given setting, I can go slightly coarser or finer within my current setting of 15 but you can't easily keep track of the precise setting within each number.


 Thanks for the clarification - I've amended myself to reduce fake news.


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## larkim (Sep 3, 2018)

Can I just pipe up again that pre-ground doesn't necessarily require a pressurised basket. I use old beans and often grind enough for 3-4 days at a time, sometimes more, with my faintly rubbish Gaggia MM grinder. And I can still get a decent flow.

Now I'll readily admit I don't weigh in the grinds nor do I weigh out the output, and nor do I specifically time the pour (at some point I'll move to this level!), but in about 25-30s I get a nice tasting and crema rich 2oz of volume out.

So if the beans being used by the OP are from a local roaster, and being ground to order when being purchased I doubt the OP has a worse coffee bean / grinds set up than I do! (Obviously, if I were to open a bag of supermarket "ground for espresso" grinds the pressurised basket would be pretty much essential.)


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## hbprism (Mar 24, 2021)

Dusk said:


> I have a Sage SGP, it can definitely go fine enough on fresh beans. I'm currently on setting 15 for some Extract Ruby beans. I have got closer to 1 on supermarket beans but it's always been able to go fine enough.
> 
> Worth noting it's not a stepped grinder adjustment, it tells you a number that equates to grind size but there are no steps on the adjustment knob. I assume it's a worm gear. You can adjust slightly within a given setting, I can go slightly coarser or finer within my current setting of 15 but you can't easily keep track of the precise setting within each number.


 Ah thank you for that info - That is super useful! How are you finding the Sage Grinder Pro? Would you recommend ?

I've been researching for grinders (including this one) for the last week and the level of info online can be super overwhelming haha. Im considering getting this one but a part of me is super cautious as I havn't used it before


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## Davebo (Jan 9, 2021)

Kjk said:


> You need 15bar to use the pressurised basket (think of putting your thumb on the top of a garden hose). If you've set OPV too low you may only get a few drips, so a difference would be expected.


 Indeed. Apologies, I should have been clearer.

I was using the pressurised basket at 15 bar (or whatever stock was on my machine) and grinding to a mid-fine level.

Now I am using a non-pressurised double basket with a finer grind and a lower OPV.


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## Dusk (Feb 19, 2021)

hbprism said:


> Ah thank you for that info - That is super useful! How are you finding the Sage Grinder Pro? Would you recommend ?
> 
> I've been researching for grinders (including this one) for the last week and the level of info online can be super overwhelming haha. Im considering getting this one but a part of me is super cautious as I havn't used it before


 So far I can't really complain except if you're grinding for espresso then it comes out a bit clumpy. I find it easier to grind into a dosing cup and then fluff up a bit with a WDT and transfer to the portafilter. It's got a lot of features but I single dose into it so don't use most of them. It has a bit of retention/exchange if you change beans.

I'm very happy with it, it doesn't get a lot of love on this forum but I'm yet to see any suitable alternatives for the price that isn't manual. It grinds finely enough for espresso at roughly 1g per second and is quite quiet. I paid £150 for mine directly from Sage, it feels well made and like it should last a while and comes with a 2 year warranty.


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## hbprism (Mar 24, 2021)

Dusk said:


> So far I can't really complain except if you're grinding for espresso then it comes out a bit clumpy. I find it easier to grind into a dosing cup and then fluff up a bit with a WDT and transfer to the portafilter. It's got a lot of features but I single dose into it so don't use most of them. It has a bit of retention/exchange if you change beans.
> 
> I'm very happy with it, it doesn't get a lot of love on this forum but I'm yet to see any suitable alternatives for the price that isn't manual. It grinds finely enough for espresso at roughly 1g per second and is quite quiet. I paid £150 for mine directly from Sage, it feels well made and like it should last a while and comes with a 2 year warranty.


 Thank you for that overview - I really appreciate it! I've heard that as well, regarding clumpy and retention. Doing some further research and, probably digging into my bank a little bit further, I am now currently looking at the Eureka Specialita and that one seems to be receiving very good reviews. Suitable for single dosing and does have minimal retention as well.


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

hbprism said:


> Thank you for that overview - I really appreciate it! I've heard that as well, regarding clumpy and retention. Doing some further research and, probably digging into my bank a little bit further, I am now currently looking at the Eureka Specialita and that one seems to be receiving very good reviews. Suitable for single dosing and does have minimal retention as well.


 I've got a specialita and have ordered a Niche for single dosing. I'd say you'd get the best out of it by running 250g at a time unless you are happy with purging. It takes a few grams to properly reflect a change in grind adjustment. For that reason you would be able to get ok performance single dosing the same bean but are signing up for a lot of waste if planning to chop and change between beans.


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