# Unusual bad service, is there an excuse?



## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Hey guys

Wanna draw your attention to some lousy service I received tonight at a local speciality coffee bar!

I have posted about it at Common Grind http://www.commongrind.co.uk/no-excuse-for-bad-service/

Please post your opinions there or here









Chris, Common Grind


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## wizzard (Jan 4, 2009)

Was the guy that walked out of the counter area without serving you the manager?


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

If I was selling you a premium white tea that indeed you can enjoy many steeps from then yes, you could have as many top up's as you'd like. They should know the product and understand that you were not simply free loading but enjoying the product that they had sold to you. In my opinion they should make a point of offering the service as standard.

Lee


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## ross (Aug 6, 2008)

first world issues


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## TimStyles (Jul 22, 2008)

Sometimes, there's an excuse.


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## ross (Aug 6, 2008)

coming back to your blog/post actually really annoys me.

i think, especially on the internet, it is really, really easy to slam people that are being proactive. while there are some aspects of your podcast that i'm not a huge fan of i still think it's really cool that you're getting out there are doing something, trying to promote uk coffee etc etc etc.

however this blog is totally childish, snide, pointless, boring and unprofessional (i wouldn't normally use that word but that is clearly your aim, to be professional). there is absolutely no need to name the shop in question, no need at all - apart from, of course, to insult them and cause bad press for them.

if you want to actually have a conversation about bad service, go ahead! but it's clear you don't, you just want to have a little dig at some kid because he wouldn't top up your top of tea for the 5th time.


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm sorry if I insulted you in anyway. However I think the level of service in the UK is more often than not appalling. And without people being prepared to put themselves out there, to name and shame this bad service.

I'm very sorry if you found the post boring particularly, however it's been one of the most popular posts on the site in the last few months, so luckily, not everyone finds it boring.

I tried to be professional in my post, and chose not to be insulting, or particularly derogatory. I find it most ironic that you chose to acheive both those of these in your response. I chose not to mention a name of that person.

And in regards to your last comments, the 'young kid' is a 30 year old ex-bartender, and it was the second time I had it topped up!

Chris, Common Grind


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## ross (Aug 6, 2008)

chrisweaver_barista said:


> I'm sorry if I insulted you in anyway. *However I think the level of service in the UK is more often than not appalling. And without people being prepared to put themselves out there, to name and shame this bad service....*
> 
> I'm very sorry if you found the post boring particularly, however it's been one of the most popular posts on the site in the last few months, so luckily, not everyone finds it boring.
> 
> ...


so you're actively trying discourage people going there? to damage their name? i think you forgot to finish the bit in bold but it doesn't matter because it doesn't make an awful lot of sense. if people don't 'name and shame' bad service what? it will carry on?

imagine if james hoffman, or mark prince came to THE ANGEL COFFEE HOUSE LINCOLN, decided the service didn't meet their high standards and chatted shit about it on their well read blogs - that would be pretty annoying wouldn't it? the silliest part of the whole thing is that you couldn't have achieved exactly the same thing without naming the business.

at the end of the day i think you know that you shouldn't have named the business. you know that it hasn't achieved anything positive or roused any great debate. the long and short of it is that you surely have to make a decision; are you a writing a personal blog where by you can slam any business/person/thing you want - or are you producing a professional, objective blog/podcast that is getting space in a professional magazine?


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

If James or Mark came into The Angel, and received service like that, I would be appalled at ourselves, and would deserve anything I got.

I thought about whether I would name the business or not. I also spoke to one or two people about the post behind the scenes, and it was decided that it wasn't unneccessarily un-professional.

I am producing my blog and podcast, people can chose do help promote it, or do with it as they please, there are enough blogs out there biting their tongues, and being so damned careful, that it just blends into the boring background.

I'm going to back out this argument now, feel free to continuing discussing this with anyone else though.

And please don't tell me what I think I know!


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## R-James (Nov 18, 2008)

Excuse me while I throw view into this. If I go into a place that serves speciality drinks, in this case a speciality tea, the owners and baristi should all know how the drink should be served, what temperatures, the steeping times, water ratios and milk ratios if applicable. Naming and shaming a place sometimes spurs the parties involved into acting out and improving service and makes individual staff realise they are being judged on how they work and that a bit of extra care and customer mindedness goes an awful long way.


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## Chissit (Jan 15, 2009)

Hi guys,

I'm new around here, thought I'd give my two penneth..if that's OK?

It's an interesting point made above that, given the opportunity, the party involved may be spurred on to improve it's service. Are they aware though that their service levels are being discussed openly? Have they had a chance to respond?

Obviously, Chris is an ex employee of the coffee house in question, are there underlying issues relating to the service offered? What terms did Chris leave on? I'm certainly not attacking either party, and it's not my intention to do so. I'm merely raising questions which I feel are appropriate to the issue...

Just my initial thoughts...for what they're worth?!

Gary


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

I've avoided this discussion, as I don't particularly want to get involved, but having been called out (thanks Ross!







) I may as well add a couple of points (which are personal opinion) about discussing service online.

I've had some hilariously bad service from a variety of different businesses, and based on a single incidence I wouldn't post about it online. Most cases it hasn't been the owner/manager and it has been a single incidence. What is worth remembering is the weird permanence of the internet. Posts written 5 years ago appear as readily in a google search as something written today. Caching means that often stuff is still available even when you have regretted what you've written and retracted it. Be aware that if you post anything online you technically become a printed author and if is was considered libelous then they could sue based on that statement.

For criticism to be truly constructive it must be personal and it must be given with permission. The idea of 'naming and shaming' hasn't really worked throughout any kind of journalism, as it is hard to do without appearing vindictive - even when done with the best possible intentions. If one does this regularly then it becomes a lot harder to win the trust of people and businesses.

I am not saying that everyone should only write nice things about each other, I think a lot needs to be done to help push, prod and poke the coffee service industry in the UK. Anecdotal evidence of bad service can be illustrative and interesting. There are incidences where I would be happy to talk about an experience with a particular business and to give names, but in doing so I'd be at great pains to be completely transparent about the experience.

The UK coffee industry is very small, certainly the passionate part of it. Collaboration, and a little forgiveness, will get us a lot further into the hearts and minds of the consumer than a more aggressive stance.


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Thanks James. It's always interesting to hear your views. You have made me think about the situation a little bit more. I'm still deeply disappointed with the level of service I got there. Especially as I was instrumental with a lot of the staff training before I left.

I will think more about dropping the names from the article, however the article will be staying up

Chris


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## sharpjd (Nov 21, 2008)

Some general comments on this subject:

As someone often on the receiving end of reviews I've often thought about their value. When they're great you love them, when they're bad they shouldn't exist and are pointless. I generally find they fall into a category, and it's not too difficult to work out which one it is:

- massive self promotion by someone connected/sponsored with/by a cafe

- massive negative comments by a competitor

- poor but genuine review by inexperienced reviewer

- balanced, informative review by experienced reviewer

- whitewash moan by someone who has left feeling they've been wronged in some way

In terms of improving the cafe I would value a discussion with a regular customer a thousand times more than any reivew or a web post by someone I've never met made following a single visit. I can think of many little things we've improved over the years following comments from regulars. I can think of no issue that's ever been identified in a review.

One conclusion I have reached is that reviews aren't nearly as important for cafes as they are for restaurants. There has never been any detectable change in our takings following a review. My customers are regulars, passing trade and word of mouth.


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Hi All,

Firstlt, may I say that Chris has every right to voice his opinion about any subject on his own blog.

As for the nature of the comments, I don't think it was the fact that they declined Chris another "top-up", more the point about the way they did it. The fact that he named the business IMO is in consiquential, there is a whole section devoted to reveiws on this forum after all!

Just my opinion!

Regards

Lee


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## James Hoffmann (Jul 24, 2008)

Just to be clear - I was not involved in any way in the incident. My being 'called out' was in reference to Ross's post about how a business would react if I wrote about them.


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Sorry Jim, I meant to write Chris......Not sure why I wrote James! Getting old!..........Or Drunk.............Yeah, probably drunk.......

Lee


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Just to pull an end to all this. I have decided to pull the entire post. It was a long thought out decision. And I hasten to add that Ross' poisonous post was not the reason.

Having read and thought about the much more considered opinions on James, and the other guys on here, and also feedback from others. I decided that what I wanted from this post, and what people were construing from the post were two different things.

I love Coffee Aroma, and anyone following my twitter will know I spend a lot of time there, even following this incident. I find it a great working environment, and also a great place to go if I'm feeling lonely. And I fear I underestimated the damage I may cause to them with the post.

However, the post has made me realise how thick skinned you have to be if you put yourself in the public limelight, Ross' response shook me a little, but I've realised that people will be vicious, sometimes unneccessarily, I'll just have to get used to it









Chris, Common Grind


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## ross (Aug 6, 2008)

jesus wept


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Well Jesus did yes, but lets not bring the poor chap into this, he's been through enough and he isn't even a tea drinker !!!


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## wizzard (Jan 4, 2009)

ross said:


> coming back to your blog/post actually really annoys me.
> 
> i think, especially on the internet, it is really, really easy to slam people that are being proactive. while there are some aspects of your podcast that i'm not a huge fan of i still think it's really cool that you're getting out there are doing something, trying to promote uk coffee etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


Are you an employee of this establishment?

I think your reaction is a tad OTT. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It's a shame you've removed the post Chris, I would have left it up.


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Well Wizzard, after reading through Jims posts, and chatting with people on twitter, I just decided that my post was being misconstrued. I certainly don't want people thinking that I'm trying to just damage competition, or spite an ex-employer. I was merely trying to draw attention to some bad service i received, and incite discussion, I just incited the wrong kind! ha ha!

Chris

[edit] and just to clarify, from reading other posts, Ross is based in Tunbridge Wells area, and has no connection with Coffee Aroma at all


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## wizzard (Jan 4, 2009)

chrisweaver_barista said:


> Well Wizzard, after reading through Jims posts, and chatting with people on twitter, I just decided that my post was being misconstrued. I certainly don't want people thinking that I'm trying to just damage competition, or spite an ex-employer. I was merely trying to draw attention to some bad service i received, and incite discussion, I just incited the wrong kind! ha ha!
> 
> Chris
> 
> [edit] and just to clarify, from reading other posts, Ross is based in Tunbridge Wells area, and has no connection with Coffee Aroma at all


It's a shame, he must have had a bad day at work


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Ahh, but remember Wizzard, if I'm entitled to opinion, he should be entitled to his, we all have bad days, and I'm all for voicing strong opinions! We need some personality in the uk coffee scene


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## wizzard (Jan 4, 2009)

chrisweaver_barista said:


> Ahh, but remember Wizzard, if I'm entitled to opinion, he should be entitled to his, we all have bad days, and I'm all for voicing strong opinions! We need some personality in the uk coffee scene


Hmm yes, however some opinions can be constructed a little better


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## ross (Aug 6, 2008)

chrisweaver_barista said:


> Ross is based in Tunbridge Wells areal


i'm not?

,


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Ahh my apologies, you were born and raised there, and were staying there whilst posting, or something like that, I misread your post









Chris


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Anyway - Probably time for James as a moderator to close this thread?

Lee


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm the moderator









I don't wanna close this post myself, as it will look like I'm just silencing my critics, but i will draw Glenns attention to it and he can decide!


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

Oh God I meant Chris! I keep calling you James! ARRRGG!

Lee


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## chrisweaver_barista (Jun 14, 2008)

Argh my net is messing up so keep having to re-write this.

I just wanted to say, as far as I'm concerned, there is no bad feelings between me and Ross, yes it got a little heated, but we are each entitled to our opinions, and we are certainly each entitled to defend them also









I hope that you all, including Ross, can continue to enjoy my blog and podcast, even if the occasional post catches the wrong chord.

Chris, Common Grind


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