# newbie experiments in coffee



## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

I've been drinking pre-ground Lavazza Rosso for the past 20yrs or so, always prepared with a 3-cup Bialletti Moka Express - recently noticed that taste deteriorates after day 1 opening the packet & starting to dislike the taste anyway. Friends suggested grinding my own would be better, & to try different coffee.....

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**Experiment 1 - Lavazza pre-ground vs Lavazza freshly ground*


Coffee made with my 3-cup Moka Express

Bought a Dualit 75015 electric grinder.

Compared pre-ground Lavazza Rosso with beans of same variety, ground at finest setting


*RESULTS *
Day 1: Lavazza pre-ground (freshly opened) tastes the same as Lavazza freshly ground from beans

Day 2 to 7: Lavazza pre-ground rapid deterioration in taste, freshly ground beans, coffee tastes same all week.


*CONCLUSION*

Dualit grinder at finest setting gives approximately same flavour as preground when freshly opened

grinding my own beans gives much better flavoured coffee over the week than using the pre-ground



*What next? *

So, now I am confident that grinding my own beans is the way forward I can try different beans......

However trouble from the wife - "don't use that ***ing grinder in the morning as it wakes the children up"

So I buy a Zassenhaus Santiago from the local coffee supply shop & try that with my specialty beans -- but doesn't really give the results I want....is it the coffee or is it the grinder???

*Experiment 2 - two different beans compared using two different grinders (2x2 factorial design) - *

*
*



*QUESTION:* does coffee or grinder have a greater effect

Coffee made with a 1-cup Moka Express (so I don't get over caffienated)

Two coffees
Finca Manantiales - Huehuetenango, Guatemala - Bought from Foundry Coffee Roasters, roasted 5 days previously

"House Blend" from local supplier (Brazil / Columbia mix) - roasted 20 days previously


Two grinders

Zassenhaus Santiago (this took about 100 turns to make enough for testing

Dualit 75015


Order of testing

Finca / Zassenhaus

House / Zassenhaus

Finca / Dualit

House / Dualit


*RESULT**: *

Difference between the two coffees was noticeable

Much much stronger difference between the grinders - with the Dualit giving coffee that was stronger tasting and much closer to what I like.


*LIMITATIONS*

No blinding - so probably difficult to compare the two coffees where the differences were subtle

Order effect - BUT the difference was overwhelming so I doubt this is relevant

Moka 1-cup which I'm not used to. but this saves me from shaking, having a headache and fast heart beat, so worth it


*CONCLUSIONS*

For my needs the Dualit works better, probably because the grinds are finer (but they don't look much different)

Disappointed with the Zassenhaus, especially since I now need to find a better hand grinder to keep the wife happy!


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## Greezay (Apr 16, 2016)

I found your post interesting. I have just started using a 3 cup Moka pot with Lavazza Rosa and you have given me a few ideas to launch into better coffee. I never thought of using a smaller pot to stop OD'ing. LOL.


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

In my experience, the smaller (1 cup) and bigger (6 cup) make quite different coffee - which is another line of experimentation!

I gave up with bigger ones as they never worked to my satisfaction.

Also, just got a Feldgrind - much better than the Zassenhaus -- haven't done a comparison with the Dualit yet though.


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

Interested to read your post - I'm in a similar place right now, using a Feldgrind and a 6-cup Bialetti (but thinking of downsizing for the reasons you mentioned!) What grind settings have you tried? I find anything under 1 complete turn +4 and the Bialetti begins to clog, 1+5 gives an impressive amount of foam, over 1+8 is rather sour.


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

Currently I'm using 1 +2 on the Feldgrind (in my 1 and 3 cup) and pack lightly and seems to work fine, although I'm open to testing some more. I Haven't tried much coarser. I reckon this is about the same grind consistency as the Lavazza pre-ground so this seemed like a good place to start.

With the 6 cup - I've only used pre-ground Lavazza Rosso in it (as that's what I have drunk for the past 20yrs). I found that if the basket was filled to the top the Bialletti would cough and splutter and not really work at all. So on the occasions I did use it (rarely) I made sure the basket wasn't quite full. & that sort of worked, but never completely satisfactorily. I've only been trying this "fancy" coffee in the past few weeks so haven't experimented further with the 6-cup.


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

Perhaps I misread the clogging. Maybe I'll try going finer with a tad more heat.


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

also had what seemed like clogging (spluttering and not much coffee) with a damaged basket (it had been dented out of shape - probably by me banging it against the compost bin to get the grounds out). This was only realised by changing the rubber seal, the filter plate & still no improvement.

so it would be worth checking that the seal is still OK (usually they go every year or two) etc.

interested to hear how you get on. I'd be keen to get the 6-cupper working as well as the 1 and 3 cuppers.


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## redleader (Apr 21, 2016)

Sounds great. I'm using a Bialetti 6-cup at the moment until I can convince myself to grab something pricier, so I'm keen to hear of your further experiments. You know, for science!


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

redleader said:


> Sounds great. I'm using a Bialetti 6-cup at the moment until I can convince myself to grab something pricier, so I'm keen to hear of your further experiments. You know, for science!


Well, yesterday I tried grinding finer again and had the same problem as before (clogging?) The first couple of spoonfuls to come into the upper chamber were clear, then the brew took on some colour. But the whole thing was woefully weak. As one is told to fill the basket completely, a 6-cup (if fully extracted) gives you an awful lot of caffeine! Too much for me, so I have bought a 4-cup steel Moka on the 'bay for a little more than £6 new. Experiments to continue when it arrives.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

calculon said:


> Well, yesterday I tried grinding finer again and had the same problem as before (clogging?) The first couple of spoonfuls to come into the upper chamber were clear, then the brew took on some colour. But the whole thing was woefully weak. As one is told to fill the basket completely, a 6-cup (if fully extracted) gives you an awful lot of caffeine! Too much for me, so I have bought a 4-cup steel Moka on the 'bay for a little more than £6 new. Experiments to continue when it arrives.


Are you sure you didn't have some trapped water in the upper part of the pot, maybe left over from cleaning, when you put the pot back together?


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

It just seems too much of a coincidence that I have only seen this on the two occasions that I have ground finer than 1+4 on the Feldgrind.


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

is there something broken somewhere in your pot ?

- sounds like the water is going round the coffee rather than through it. I would expect you get spluttering and a small amount of super strong stuff rather than clearish liquid.

I remember having all sorts of problems with one pot and eventually gave up on it and bought another.


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## jimgrant (Apr 15, 2010)

Have you thought of giving the aeropress or v 60 brew methods a try? Moka pots can be a bit restrictive in getting amazing flavours.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jimgrant said:


> Have you thought of giving the aeropress or v 60 brew methods a try? Moka pots can be a bit restrictive in getting amazing flavours.


Moka pots tend to dictate the strength of the brew more than the flavours per se. You can clean up the brew by running it through a filter cone, or adjust the strength by diluting (best to use scales for the hot water added & aim for a dose to beverage ratio of your preference).


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

I'm trying not to post too frequently as I'm really hijacking. I'm still experimenting (or searching if you prefer.) I'm trying to eliminate the variables so at the moment I am sticking to 4-cup Moka, 15gm of Lavazza espresso ground to 1+3 in a Feldgrind and varying the quantity of water. Frustratingly, where everyone else seems to have cupfuls of dates, fudge, plums, nuts and strawberries I am swinging between depressingly weak and depressingly strong brews that taste of, well, coffee. When I think I might be getting close I try to repeat the following day, only to find I've gone back to square one again. I'm not going to give up, though!

PS I did try an Aeropress, but without significantly different results. I've put it away for the time being until I have mastered the art of consistency.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Don't vary the amount of water, or the coffee. Fill the reservoir to the valve, fill the basket to the brim (& weigh both for consistency).

If the coffee you make is too strong (this is largely pre-set by the pot dimensions, you can't easily mess with it), dilute it down.

You only really have 2 variables: grind setting & percolation time (not the time the pot is on the hob, but the time that coffee is being produced from the centre pipe).


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

With lavazza beans you will only get a taste of coffee.... If you are lucky.


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

If I fill the reservoir in the 4-cup I get something too weak for my taste. My 6-cup takes 50% more water (seems logical) but 80% more coffee, resulting in a very heady brew! I can't take that much caffeine so I have to chuck one-third. Makes it rather expensive. So maybe I should forget the Moka and dig the Aeropress out again.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

calculon said:


> If I fill the reservoir in the 4-cup I get something too weak for my taste. My 6-cup takes 50% more water (seems logical) but 80% more coffee, resulting in a very heady brew! I can't take that much caffeine so I have to chuck one-third. Makes it rather expensive. So maybe I should forget the Moka and dig the Aeropress out again.


How much coffee & water in "g" does your 4 cup take? How much brewed coffee (in "g") does the pot produce?

The 6-cup makes a heady brew because you are drinking 4-6 servings of coffee. Go by the weight of coffee used to make the brew, a typical single serving might be anywhere between 5g & 12g, though a single mug of brewed could be made with up to ~17g.

28g, or thereabouts, is an awful lot of coffee for one serving. Drink half when you make it & microwave the remainder later?

Far more variables with an Aeropress. If you don't get your head around the moka pot I don't see how the Aeropress is going to make life easier.


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## calculon (Apr 1, 2016)

As this thread really belongs to @prophecy-of-drowning I will post my findings on the one I started, "Is It Me..."


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## prophecy-of-drowning (Mar 18, 2016)

I am starting to reckon the 1-cup makes the best coffee.


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