# How soon do you use freshly roasted beans ?



## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

basically i couldnt get a good coffee from the lusty i bought til it was around 10-14 days old, i know this might have just been my technique, grind, or whatever, but ive got some Bolivia Finca Machacamarca de Berengula from HasBean roasted 29th Feb and after 10+ goes i cant get a good cup out of that, with over half the bag gone and not a single good cup, im thinking of leaving it another week

you guys are way more experienced than me, when you buy your beans, how long do you leave them before you start to use them ?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Different beans tend to degas at different rates some are good after 3 days some like 10+. I find 4-7 days is good rule of thumb and if I find it difficult to get consistent results I leave them longer.

It took me a little while to get to grips with the Marchamara too (and I am still getting to grips with the spelling as you can see







). I found I liked a relatively low dose and moderate extraction time with this one. 14-15g ground coffee in the 15g VST basket producing 23g of espresso in around 26-27 seconds.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

How long is a piece of string....?

Invariably it can be anywhere between 4 and 10 days before a coffee "peaks" in flavour. However, it is a subjective term. There are so many variables that it is difficult to determine and I would surmise that it is down to experimentation (starting at the freshest point).

Are they coffees you know and like? ...or new to you?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Sounds to me like perhaps something is up with your brewing parameters. It doesn't take 14 days to get a good shot from LG.

Any way you could get someone to video you dosing, grinding, etc, right thru the pull?

How often do you clean the PF, showerscreen etc and backflush?

What's your water like?

Are you temperature surfing?

Are you using a bottomless PF and if so, any spritzing/doughnutting?

Tough to pin this down by forum. Are you anywhere near that group training day being organised?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm with Mike on this. I don't know much about the Classic but I'm guessing it isn't temperature stable and therefore some sort of surfing is required. I'd hazard that it is a combination of this and dose and grind. I found Lusty to work at standard 14-15g double dose. I also found it amazingly flexible and I don't recall any of the shots being bad regardless of how thick or thin I pulled them. I liked it dribbling into the cup like engine oil.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I personally though Lusty was pretty dead by day 12-13 , none of the fruity notes remained & it had dulled to a bland point, nice tho in milk drinks.

Maybe the 14 day+ improvement you found , Brun, was that the intensity had died down - which suites your palate more for americanos...just a thought?


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> I personally though Lusty was pretty dead by day 12-13 , none of the fruity notes remained & it had dulled to a bland point, nice tho in milk drinks.


Aagh! Don't say that. I had some arrive Monday. My Gaggia Classic arrived yesterday only to be sent back as it was damaged, so they'll probably be past it before I get my replacement machine. Freezer time?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

No. Nooooo!!

LG last much longer than that in my experience. As I've said before, I've used it at 6 weeks and it has still been great. Just keep it in the bag, sealed and with as little air as possible, in a cool dark place. If you freeze it you fook it


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

MikeHag said:


> If you freeze it you fook it


Nice tag line. lol.

Will do as advised.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I made a great shot with Machacamarca last week around the 2nd March and my beans were roasted on the 20th Feb. Going to try again in a few minutes.

Using hotter brew temp than darker beans by a degree or so.

Brun try switching classic to steam mode, wait for light to switch on, switch off steam mode, purge group head using brew switch.

Clear *ALL* steam out of boiler. Attach PF and go!

Also do you preheat PF, baskets, group heads etc?

EDIT: Today's shot. 15.25g giving 25g espresso in 26 seconds. PID at 103 (equivalent to about 95 degrees).

Tastes good I suspect will benefit from a higher dose as these are some old beans now!

Just finished the shot and the sweetness actually outweighed the acidity. Very nice indeed!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

tribs said:


> Aagh! Don't say that. I had some arrive Monday. My Gaggia Classic arrived yesterday only to be sent back as it was damaged, so they'll probably be past it before I get my replacement machine. Freezer time?


You might find they last longer for your tastes, but, I thought id be honest with what I found with them.

I wouldnt freeze unless absolutely needed, although I know others on here freeze beans regularly without any trouble.....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> No. Nooooo!!
> 
> . If you freeze it you fook it


Have you experimented with freezing ? I have had beans which were no different in taste/pour pre and post a week at minus 17. Many others on here freeze beans out of choice and/or nessessity


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I've frozen some and didn't like the result tbh. A darker, thinner pour in my test. I think it is possible to do it but the conditions and circumstances need to be right.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

There does seem to be much disagreement regarding freezing beans. Hands On Roasters say the problems with freezing arise from condensation created while taking in an out of the freezer, but if you put half in the freezer and leave them until you finish the other half, that shouldn't be a problem surely?

On the pakcet for Costa beans it reccomends freezing and states the beans will keep 6 weeks, but they'll last 4 simply kept cool.

I have no experience either way.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I read a cupping comparison of different storage methods and it actually said the freezer-stored coffee tasted the best 30 days after roasting, compared to cupboard-stored and fridge-stored.

Also that Tupperware gave better results than the standard foils (airtight) that many coffees come in. This was obviously just cupping not espresso but still a useful study.

Might (freezing) it depend largely on the moisture content of the beans as to the affects on flavour?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I only freeze beans if I know I cant use them that week.

What I have done is purely for the the Has Bean style bags - without opening them they are airtight and just stuck some insulating tape over the valve.

I dont remove the tape until they've been at room temp for 3 hours or so & then beans seem to behave normally, ie the bag inflates as they de-gas. Some examples I have had actually tasted better 3-4 days post defrosting.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Here's my thinking. When I eat meat it tastes better if it is fresh... i.e. hasn't been frozen. When I eat vegetables it's the same. Coffee is produce, just like those things. Pizza, Ice Cream and ex-wives are all that go in my freezer...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I tend to agree Mike & logic absolutley tells me the same.

However : dont forget frozen peas are bad-ass

All my own tests havent indicated an apprechiable decrease in cup quality

If someone offered me a bag of beans for a fiver , or the same bag frozen for 1 week for 3 quid, Id still pay the extra 2 quid...but sometimes needs must.


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## Danielowenuk (Aug 12, 2011)

Same logic doesn't work with Wine


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

First of all, never freeze beans if you can help it and if you do, make sure they are properly thawed and dry before you grind or you will do damage to your grinder. I find different coffees 'mature' at different times. A dark roast may be nice to drink from the 1st/2nd day whereas a lighter roast sometimes need a few days to settle down IMO (just an opinion not based on anything but my tastes and likes). Also, I find most coffee well stored in air tight jars lasts very well for 3 weeks when it very quickly deteriorates although some coffees seem to last longer. I don't refrigerate coffee, but if I did, I'd put it in vegetable drawer in an airtight tub.

In the end, most of us reading this love coffee and buy good quakity coffee to produce great taste and crema. Why spend a fortune on coffee to ruin it?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Never had a problem with freezing beans. I've had some in there in the past for about 6 months and they tasted great. Paper bags are a bit of an issue obviously. The analogy with food is not appropriate as the moisture content of beans is so low. Consequently, I'm not convinced of the extent to which they actually freeze.


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

thanks for the replies, seems different people like the taste at different points, and some beans lend themselves to a little more rest than others, why did i think the answer might be black and white lol


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

Just made a spot on americano with the Bolivian !


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

11 days after roasting, the Lusty Glaze does seems to have lost something. The aroma is considerably less pungent, and the chocolate notes have subsided. The earthiness dominates now.

Don't get me wrong, they still make a good cup, just not quite as good as before. The Classic should be here tomorrow, but I have a suspiscion that will not be the case.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

How are you storing it? I have some roasted 1 March, same day as you, and this morning I made two cappuccinos that my wife said were the best she's ever had. I ground some of the beans purely for a sniff of the grinds and they still smell fantastic... like chicken soup, strangely! I can only think that the air is getting to yours if they are losing their gases and aromas.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

If you wait for 8 days to start your bag thinking that's the best time for it you'll get 1 day with fantastic coffee then the rest of the bag will be deteriorating. Surely it's better to catch it on the way up as well as the down?

I used to freeze 3 bags at a time cos I get the 4 bag promo from CoffeeBeanShopltd and it takes me about 4 weeks to get through them. Then I'd just get one out of the freezer at a time as the last bag came to an end.

I now think this makes no difference (if anything maybe makes it taste not as good) so I just leave them all in their original (sealed foil with valve) bags in the cupboard. I now quite often find that their Roasters Blend #whatever (which is always the last one I open) is usually up there with the best of them in terms of flavour and that's 3 weeks after roasting.

Horses for courses I guess


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

They are in the garage, which at this time of year is like a fridge without the humidity. I imagine almost perfect conditions. They are in the original bag that has had the air pushed out and resealed.

To be fair, I have been in and out of it several times a day for the last week, which is why I suspect they are losing their aroma. I got a kilo and there is probably a third left. Also bear in mind I am brewing, which may have a bearing on it.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

MikeHag said:


> like chicken soup, strangely!


Funny you should say that, my colleague thought it smelled of rendered pork.


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

mine are in a kilner jar, in a dark cupboard, in the kitchen so at normal room temp


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I would say that aroma comes from the roast style being taken to the sugar browning stage. I'm reading the SCAA Cuppers Handbook at the moment... really fascinating insight into what is going on in the bean and how to pick up on it with your senses (and describe it). Chicken soup and rendered pork don't appear, sadly


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

We have an outbuilding that is cold like a fridge. Somehow there's still condensation on the windows...


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

I have an espresso roast that is three weeks old and apparently at it's best taste but I have struggled to get any more than a few good shots. I got some new roasted beans from a place in Glasgow called Dear Green Coffee Roasters and their espresso blend was roasted a week ago. It poured almost flawlessly and tasted delicious.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

tribs said:


> 11 days after roasting, the Lusty Glaze does seems to have lost something. The aroma is considerably less pungent, and the chocolate notes have subsided. The earthiness dominates now.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, they still make a good cup, just not quite as good as before. The Classic should be here tomorrow, but I have a suspiscion that will not be the case.


Im glad it wasnt just me then .that found this...and yes I stored my beans correctly in this instance


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## Pedro083 (Nov 16, 2011)

Milesy said:


> I have an espresso roast that is three weeks old and apparently at it's best taste but I have struggled to get any more than a few good shots. I got some new roasted beans from a place in Glasgow called Dear Green Coffee Roasters and their espresso blend was roasted a week ago. It poured almost flawlessly and tasted delicious.


Where did you get it from always looking for good local roasters


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Their website is

http://www.deargreencoffee.com/

They sell their beans in a wee shop in merchant city called "all that is solid"

http://www.facebook.com/AllThatIsSolid

I went up on my lunch break, had an espresso In store and got a bag of beans







&


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