# La Scala butterfly



## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Hi again guys ...

just been offered free loan of a La Scala Butterfly from a friend in work (pics attached) .... not been used for a few years but was in perfect order before. I'd imagine I'll get a very good deal on it if I'm interested. The guy wants rid of it as its taking up space! Anybody know anything about these machines? Also as its not been used for a few years are there any precautions or maintenance actions I should do before firing it up if I take it on? Again many thanks great to get the gen on here. D


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Another pic!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

That La Scala could very well be a great little bargain, much like an old motor however sitting around not being used is not a good thing, pipe joints can corrode, serious scale can build up and it can be completely kaput.

On the other hand you might get lucky. You will need to descale the machine thoroughly until the water runs clear and tasteless from the boiler (as its a HX, that means from the tap, not the group head, although this will need to be run through with descaler also) this might take a few goes through. Then leave the machine on constantly for a whole day, turn off at night then repeat for a few days to stress test the components.

You will essentially be servicing the machine, and spending time and a bit of money doing it, so ask your mate how much he wants first. In working and good condition I would think a fair price of maybe £350-400, I know its substantially more than this new, but you are buying from someone who hasn't exactly loved it and will possibly be a risk down the line.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Ok thanks ... just got it home and its looks ok but obviously not be used in a long time ..... brew group is pretty nasty dirty etc .... is there a good online source for spares recommended here ... ie gaskets, cleaning and descaling products? Also in pics below ..... I'm trying to clean out the Group head ... I removed the group screen with the screw but the rest of the assembly is rock solid. Should the brass dispersion plate "pop off" ..... I've tried prising it with a flat screw driver but its as if its welded on!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The best source for spare parts are the retailers that sell the machines, so a Google search shows that http://www.lascala-espresso.co.uk/ are the UK distributor (atleast thats what a cursory look at their homepage suggests) so email them if you are after parts.

It looks like a standard e61 group head, which should mean new shower plates and portafilters are easy to come by.

At a guess the dispersion plate should come off, but it may not be necessary. Once the surrounding area has been thoroughly cleaned (pop down to tesco and get some 16p toothbrushes, and some cafitza (but this online) backflushing powder to help clean it) Observe the water coming from it, if it is even then dont worry too much about dismantling it.

A full descale is the most important bit at this point, buy some powder made for espresso machines online and look up "descaling a HX machine" online, ask here if anything doesn't make sense.

This machine and its newer iteration look very very similar to some Expobar models, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some parts crossover, but this is just a guess.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Thanks Dylan .... I did a basic clean up of the machine. Descaled and cleaned the water tank and electrodes for the water level and gave the group head a bit of a scrub. Then filled the water tank with De-scaling solution and switched on the machine for the first time. The pump runs but no water leaves the tank. The green water level light stays on and the pump runs but no water goes to the boiler! I have tried this a couple of times but still the boiler does not seem to fill! There is a rocker switch which has 1 and 2 on it as well as the power switch(not sure what this does) but I have tried it in both positions ... same result. I did not want the pump running dry for too long so each time powered off the unit after 1 or 2 mins. Going to give up for tonight .... any ideas appreciated ... perhaps I'm over looking something very basic?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

At a basic level check there are 2 pipes or outlets from the water tank, one of these feeds the group, the other feeds the boiler. Don't run the pump dry for any length of time, it is VERY bad for it.

I'm not sure how much you already know about how the machine works, so bare with me here if I'm telling you things you already know.

One outlet from the tank feeds the boiler, this process should be automatic and activate as soon as the boiler is low. So if the boiler is low then you should hear the pump activate as soon as you turn on the machine. If no pump comes on as soon as the machine is turned on this indicates the boiler is full and you will need to wait for it to heat up for the pressure in the boiler to be able to force out the water via the hot water tap.

The second outlet feeds the group, so it leaves the tank, winds through the boiler where it is heated, then exits via the group. This feed is activated with the buttons on the front, try activating this as soon as you turn the machine on and see if water exits via the group, it should work even if the machine is attempting to fill the boiler at the same time.

I am not sure what the rocker switch with 1 and 2 indicates... hopefully someone will be able to shed some light on that.

If the outlet pipes are there and its still not filling then it could be clogged pipes or a duff pump. The one you have is the older version of the machine and it seems to be very difficult to find any kind of information on it at all on the internet. There may be members on here who could offer to take a look at it for a price but you would have to hope that it uses standard parts or it will be very expensive to repair.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you, but if its nothing simple and needs repairs it could get expensive.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Hey again, perhaps this is not the right section to post but can move if necessary. Got some free time to open up machine. pics below...

















I removed the brass nut from the level indicator and filled the boiler directly with fairly strong de-scale mixture. It foamed up a bit and bubbled over and also came out through the pressure relief valves. Anyway I put the nut back on and left it for a few hours. I then reassembled all the pipework and re fitted the water tank and filled it with more de scale fluid. Then I switched the machine on. The pump kicked in straight away and liquid left the tank!(at least the pump works ok) but pretty quickly liquid started spraying out of both pressure relief valves and the boiler pressure gauge shot up very quickly. I could manage to get liquid through the group, the steam wand and the hot water outlet. But at all times water was spraying out of the relief valves so had to turn the machine off. I've tried this a few times same result. I'm heartened that liquid is a least getting through the pipework. Could I have filled the water tank too full? I filled it to the top when the nut was off! Do I need to reset the relief valves and if so how? Anyway if anyone has any ideas much appreciated. D.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Actually I'm guessing now it may be a problem with the level circuit not cutting out the pump when the boiler is full, as the pump is running continuously.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Here.............


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Deserved it's own thread


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Deserved it's own thread


Thanks .... solved the pump running and spraying out relief valve problem! .... level probe wire was broke. Have machine basically running now .... flushed a lot of water through it .... but first shots i tried were mingin and no crema whatsoever ... I am waiting for new gaskets and proper coffee cleaning product from the web so maybe that will help! ... Also need to get some decent beans.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Does anyone know if the brass part of the group head can be removed when changing the gasket?









Old Gasket is breaking up around it ... but cannot get the brass part to budge!

Also should there be a separate shower screen covering this brass part or is it just the small shower plate that screws into the center?

many thanks D


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Gasket should come out without removing brass shower plate.

The old gasket can be held in with built up scale, it is usually easier to remove when the machine is hot. If you have a new gasket to replace this one with then a sharp point can be jammed into the rubber to aid in removal.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Ok I've got the machine up and running now after total de scale and a good bit of backflushing with detergent as I dont think this machine was ever serviced properly before. I'm thinking I'll probably need to flush more water through the machine as I used a lot of descaler on it but at the moment the coffee has a taint and I cant seem to get any sort of crema on an espresso shot! I feel the taste taint will subside with use but I am dissappointed that I can't seem to get a decent shot with a crema on top. I've done a little playing with grinds etc and I'm only using cheap IKEA beans at the moment as I dont want to waste the good stuff as its all going down the drain at the moment. The boiler pressure gauge seems to sit at about 1.1 bar is this ok or is that something I could alter? or any other ideas for getting a decent shot? many thanks D


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Now you've got the machine up and running have you tried putting some good beans through it to test it out?

1.1 bar sounds about right for the boiler pressure.

I would suggest you post your results so we can try and help diagnose any issues. Measure the beans before you grind them and then measure the liquid output, and then put this against the time it took to get that shot and this should help iron out any other issues that are not related to the machine itself.

For example: 17g dose, 26 seconds and 34g liquid output.

When i use nasty coffee beans i don't tend to get much of a cream as cream is affected by the freshness of the beans. Hope this helps! Let us know how you get on!


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Just picked up your post:

It's actually an old La Scala Eroica/Buttrefly hybrid automatic with the old style group head, which takes a smallish shower plate + normal E61 group seal.


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

espressotechno said:


> Just picked up your post:
> 
> It's actually an old La Scala Eroica/Buttrefly hybrid automatic with the old style group head, which takes a smallish shower plate + normal E61 group seal.


thanks guys .... am I missing a piece? ... I'm using the machine with just the shower plate as shown ..... should there be another screen over this?


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## daraghoc (Oct 22, 2014)

Hi

quick update after a hiatus due work commitments. I have the machine up and running for a while now and I am really enjoying playing around with different beans and grinds. Its been a very much hit and miss experience so far but thats half the fun. The Beans and the grind setting seem to be 80% of the result. The machine itself seems pretty bullet proof and I'm very happy with it though unfortunately it will go back to its owner before the summer when house remodelling has finished. So I'll be in the market for a machine in the next few months! Thanks for all the info this is a really good resource.

D


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