# Gaggia Classic - delay between espresso shots?



## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase my first espresso machine. I was thinking about a Rancilio Silvia, but after some research, given the price difference will most likely go for a Gaggia Classic (~200 GBP less).

Some reviews mention that the Gaggia Classic has a considerable delay between "shots" (up to 4 minutes) due to the small boiler size.

I will mostly be making espresso, occasionally cappuccino, usually only 2 at a time. Can I make two cups of espresso at the same time with the Gaggia Classic, or do I need to wait between them? If yes, how long? If I can make 2 cups espresso at a time, how long is the delay before I can make the next 2 cups -- really 4 minutes?

If there really is such a long delay, is this considerably shorter for the Rancilio?

Thanks for any pointers!


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

I cannot say what the delay is for the Gaggia but I can confirm there is no delay on the Silvia. Check out ebay as it might be possible to get a second hand Silvia for a little more than £200 probably around the £300 mark but worth the extra £100.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Welcome to Coffee Forums

If making espressos on the Gaggia Classic you can make 4 or 6 in fairly quick succession.

With a double basket and portafilter with 2 spouts this is easily achieveable

If you wanted to make 4 milk drinks (eg 2 capps and 2 lattes) then you may need to wait 3-4 minutes for the steam pressure to build in between drinks, but you could have made 4 espressos, then steamed milk for 4 drinks in 1 go, albeit the milk would take a bit longer to get to temperature

For large volumes of drinks a dual boiler machine (which sounds like it will be way above budget) would be required.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Espresso should be no problem whatsoever, but for cappucino as said, more difficult.

But one other thing to consider is temperature stability between shots. The larger the boiler, the less it is a concern. IMHO they both have very small boilers which aren't really ideal for milk drinks, but if you're looking to pour a lot of drinks out in succession I wouldn't say either is ideal.

If this is legit, it takes a big dump on either:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Izzo-Vivi-One-Group-Coffee-Machine-/230509976473?pt=Coffee_Machines_Makers


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

That is a great machine but it is a shame that it is a stock photograph and text copied from a brochure.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Very opportune that someone should ask this, as I have just finished doing some temperature tests on my recently acquired Gaggia Classic.

Basically, I am troubleshooting sourness in my espresso and have narrowed it down to probably too cool water.

For this test I used a cut-down polystyrene cup with a frothing thermometer stuck through it about 1 cm from the base. Whilst this is not as accurate as a Scace, I would guess it is within 1 degree C out.

In order to simulate a normal pull as I would usually do, I let the machine warm up for 15 minutes, flushed quickly then drew off approx 60ml of water. Unsurprisingly, it gave a reading of 94 degrees.

I then let it come up again to temperarture for two minutes, and repeated the process. *Surprisingly* it only gave me a reading of 85 degrees. I was not expecting this as I was under the impression that the Classic has a stable thermostat.

I proceeded to try all sorts of combinations of timing the shots. What I found was even if I let the machine heat up for 10 minutes after drawing water, it would not always come back up to sufficient temperature. Even temp surfing did little to change this.

What was strange was, after 10 minutes of warming up, the thermostat only comes on for maximum 10 seconds. (The Classic's light goes out when it is warming and comes on when it has reached temperature.) Surely it should be longer than this, if it is not at 92+ degrees?

At least this explains the sour shots.

I am not sure if I have a faulty thermostat or whether this is indicative of the Classic's small boiler.

Either way, a disappointing evening.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

15 minute warm up is possibly a little short to thoroughly heat soak the the whole boiler, brewhead, portafilter assembly. Try a longer warm up and see if your results are the same. Just checking here, you do have the PF locked in during warm up?

With the Silvia, admittedly a different machine with an offset boiler/brewhead assembly unlike the Gaggia, I preheat for a minimum of 30 minutes, preferably an hour before brewing. Perhaps worth attaching a thermometer to the boiler to assess temperature there and also monitor the temperature rise after the element switches off. I was surprised to find with the Silvia that the residual heat in the element after it switches off causes a temperature rise of 8 degrees celcius which has led me to make a change in my timing for starting to pull a shot with a consequent slight improvement in the richness of flavour. Do bear in mind the temperature offset between boiler temp and shot temp if you do this, with the Silvia it is 10 degrees Celcius between boiler temp measured with a thermocouple attached to the top of the boiler by an insulated pad and the water at the brewhead.

All interesting stuff if you are (like me) prone to geeky experimenting in the name of better espresso.

Don


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## espresso_a_day (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks for the many helpful replies. All the information I needed, plus a little more









Sounds like the Gaggia is perfectly up to scratch to my needs for now. (I'm reluctant to spend this amount of money for a used Rancilio on ebay, as I would rather have warranty etc). A dual boiler machine is indeed not within the budget right now; maybe a few years down the road if I get really into it.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

DonRJ said:


> 15 minute warm up is possibly a little short to thoroughly heat soak the the whole boiler, brewhead, portafilter assembly. Try a longer warm up and see if your results are the same. Just checking here, you do have the PF locked in during warm up?


You are correct, more like 30 mins. Yes, PF is in place during warm-up.



DonRJ said:


> Perhaps worth attaching a thermometer to the boiler to assess temperature there and also monitor the temperature rise after the element switches off.


I think I'll have to do your little thermometer modification to get it spot on.

Still a little surprised that it takes so long for the Classic to recoup temperature between shots.



DonRJ said:


> All interesting stuff if you are (like me) prone to geeky experimenting in the name of better espresso.


I'm right with you on that one!


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Interesting that even with temp surfing the gaggia doesn't get ~92ºc, still, I would have thought 15 minutes would be fine for the boiler/brewhead to come up to temperature, there really isn't that much thermal mass to warm. Which is again, a problem when you're pulling shots.

After 30 mins on the izzo, the brewhead is up to temperature as is the boiler and it has quite a significant thermal mass. I'd be checking the thermostat.

I'm not sure about the warranty on the gaggia classic, how easy it is to get parts as iirc it's been discontinued? Izzo is very easy to get parts for as I've found recently.

Shame the izzo is out of the question, it really actually has a usable steam wand and the shots which my alex produces are in a different league to the classic I had previously, but no, my choice would not be the silvia, it's just too close to the gaggia in terms of functionality.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Very true RP, the Izzo is in a different league. The Silvia is an improvement on the Classic but not a massive one, mind you I only paid £300 for my Silvia and sold my Gaggia on to part fund it. My intention is to run the Silvia for the next 2 years until I retire and treat myself to a machine in the Izzo Alex sort of league as a wee retirement pressie along with a newish Alfa Brera


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

DonRJ said:


> Very true RP, the Izzo is in a different league. The Silvia is an improvement on the Classic but not a massive one. My intention is to run the Silvia for the next 2 years until I retire and treat myself to a machine in the Izzo Alex sort of league as a wee retirement pressie along with a newish Alfa Brera


I'd still be curious about that one on the bay if they can provide any proof they actually have one for that price







Don't get me wrong, the silvia is a fine machine, but I just love the izzo design (aside from the damn case, it's a bloody pain to line up with the screws).


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Parts are widely available for the Classic. Not sure why you think it's been discontinued. Gaggia are still showing it on their website.

Will have to look into this issue in more detail, methinks.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Gaggia Classics are not being discontinued (not that I am aware of anyway)

With the huge number of machines in circulation parts will be available for many decades yet.


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

For what it's worth, "not hot enough even at peak of the temperature cycle" also describes my Classic in the weeks leading up to my decision to replace the thermostat. in my case I went all the way and replaced it with a PID, but gaggiamanualservice sells the thermostats on eBay for a very reasonable price, and performing the replacement is not at all difficult.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Osh said:


> Parts are widely available for the Classic. Not sure why you think it's been discontinued. Gaggia are still showing it on their website.
> 
> Will have to look into this issue in more detail, methinks.


Ah, my bad, may have got it confused with something else.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

ChiarasDad said:


> For what it's worth, "not hot enough even at peak of the temperature cycle" also describes my Classic in the weeks leading up to my decision to replace the thermostat. in my case I went all the way and replaced it with a PID, but gaggiamanualservice sells the thermostats on eBay for a very reasonable price, and performing the replacement is not at all difficult.


Do the thermostats just screw in or do they need the white heat resistant bonding?


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

They screw in. The white stuff is, I believe, silicone goop to improve thermal contact and heat transfer - just thermal-conductivity grease, in other words. My old thermostat came out covered with a layer of it, but it was not adhesive in any way.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

I see that there are two thermostats available, espressoparts.co.uk sell them.

Am I correct in saying I need the 107 degrees one?


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

I don't really know, but the one I pulled out is labeled "L107-8C" (and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't correspond to a temperature or to the part numbers on that diagram), so I would guess that's right.


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

That seems to be correct. Have compared it to the partsguru website. For what it costs, it's probably worth changing even if it's not faulty, just for the piece of mind.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Yes, the 107c is better than the 100c model


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## Osh (Jun 15, 2010)

Update - did a descale (not sure if it made any difference) and a temperature test and have found the following:

Let machine warm up for 30 mins,

Flush off about 15 ml

Draw approx 60 ml water - reading of 95 degress

Let thermostat cycle again,

Draw off 60 ml,

reading of 88 degrees

Let thermostat cycle twice;

Wait 15 seconds after light comes on,

Draw off 60ml,

Reading of 92 degrees.

So it seems with my thermostat IS working, however I need to wait a good few minutes for 2 warming cycles and temp surf for it to come back up to correct temperature. Seems a PID would be a good investment....


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