# Frustrations trying to brew coffee



## whinmoor85 (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm currently brewing Hasbean Ethiopia Ana Sora Natural which was roasted 10 days ago. The description mentions sweet orange, floral edge, blueberry and dark chocolate, but no matter what I try I can't get anything close to those flavours.

I'm using a Clever dripper with a Niche Zero grinder and Third Wave Water. I've made four cups so far and they all just taste muted and hollow with no particular strong favours.

I've tried changing the grind size (from 11 o'clock to two o'clock on the Niche) and I couldn't tell much difference. The grind is in this range (link below) and I'm fairly sure my grinder is calibrated correctly.










My standard recipe is 15g of ground coffee for 225ml of liquid coffee in the cup. I do the Workshop coffee method so the water goes in first (just off boil), then the coffee and it steeps for three minutes before the draw down. The bed in the dripper is flat and there's no large amount of grounds on the sides.

I thought using Third Wave Water would be a real eye opener but I've not experienced it yet.

Can anyone help?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you want 225g liquid in the cup, how much brew water are you adding? Your bed & brewer will hold back about 40g of liquid (2.5g liquid per g of dose), meaning you actually get ~185g of coffee in the cup from 225g brew water.

For me, I'd brew with more coffee (at least 20g), coarse setting (10 o'clock?), 225g water in, add coffee & wet at the surface, leave until 1:15, sink crust, 1:30 place on cup for 170-180g in cup.

If you need more coffee in the cup scale up around 1:11 brew ratio. You can even go a bit stronger, but you end up using an awful lot of coffee per cup/end up with small drinks(I don't mind smaller drinks as long as they taste good).

3 minutes isn't really enough to get a good extraction at 1:15, so I aim a bit lower in extraction which is less flat/generic. If it's bitter/flat go coarser. If it is too weak/bland grind finer/use a higher brew ratio.


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## whinmoor85 (Jul 4, 2013)

MWJB said:


> If you want 225g liquid in the cup, how much brew water are you adding? Your bed & brewer will hold back about 40g of liquid (2.5g liquid per g of dose), meaning you actually get ~185g of coffee in the cup from 225g brew water.
> 
> For me, I'd brew with more coffee (at least 20g), coarse setting (10 o'clock?), 225g water in, add coffee & wet at the surface, leave until 1:15, sink crust, 1:30 place on cup for 170-180g in cup.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the quick reply.

I've had four cups of coffee today so I'll give this a go tomorrow. You're correct in pointing out my mistake, when I said 225g in the cup I meant 225g in the Clever.

I'll give that bigger dose a go and see what happens.

I've had some cracking espresso at home recently, the brewed stuff needs to catch up!


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## whinmoor85 (Jul 4, 2013)

Gave it a go this morning and I used 20g of coffee with 225g of water in the Clever and brewed for 4 minutes before drawing down.

Definitely picking up some sweetness finally.

I'm confused why so many Clever grew guides (like Hasbean below) suggest brewing 15g of medium grind coffee with 250g of water for 3 minutes? I followed guides like that and it results in bland coffee.

https://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/clever-dripper-brew-guide


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## winterlight (Feb 27, 2016)

I've found that the Clever Dripper isn't fantastic for getting the best out of light/medium roasts. Aeropress and the V60 always perform better when it comes to flavour in my experience.

I put the Ana Sora through those two brewers and got a nice chocolate/blueberry/orange cup out of them. Have you tried in a different brewer to see if you get different results?


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## Dire Wolf (May 16, 2021)

Got to say, I tried the Ana Sora in my new Gabi Master A, and (once it had suitably cooled) it was just the sweetest cup. Lovely. A beautiful, delicate orange. 12g to 200ml of water at 94c.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

winterlight said:


> I've found that the Clever Dripper isn't fantastic for getting the best out of light/medium roasts. Aeropress and the V60 always perform better when it comes to flavour in my experience.
> 
> I put the Ana Sora through those two brewers and got a nice chocolate/blueberry/orange cup out of them. Have you tried in a different brewer to see if you get different results?


 Whilst you can't always get an equivalent clarity, strength & extraction from different brewers, in a practical timeframe (you can with immersion brewers and 20-40min brews), in the many brew regime tests I have done, I haven't been able to clearly find a preference/dislike for any of the common brewers. They all make coffee that I like about equally from one brewer to the next. Bear in mind that they are just inert lumps of plastic, ceramic, steel or glass...they don't actually do anything, they just sit there whilst a human chooses grind size, dose & water weight.

Changing brewers can work in a 'pin the tail on the donkey' kind of a way, but without a plan of action/particular target in mind, changing brewers can be more like jumping from one frying pan to just another frying pan...it's possible something in what you're doing suits another frying pan better, but you should be able to dial them all in to a good brew.


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## winterlight (Feb 27, 2016)

MWJB said:


> but you should be able to dial them all in to a good brew.


 I don't have the time to experiment with brewing methods too much due to other demands on my time. The Aeropress and the V60 gave me almost instant results in terms of a satisfying cup, so that's why I stick with them. No doubt I'll dig the Clever Brewer out again, but I really should get some papers in for it first...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

winterlight said:


> I don't have the time to experiment with brewing methods too much due to other demands on my time. The Aeropress and the V60 gave me almost instant results in terms of a satisfying cup, so that's why I stick with them. No doubt I'll dig the Clever Brewer out again, but I really should get some papers in for it first...


 Aeropress & Clever work very much in the same way, maybe try doing the same with the Clever as you do with AP.

I only experiment about 5% of the time I brew, experimentation (as opposed to a couple of grind adjustments) should be optional for enquiring minds, not part of daily regime.


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