# Choosing between Mahlgut Grist, Pharos or HG-One



## Hardiz (Nov 21, 2015)

Hi

I have decided to upgrade from a nespresso to a good quality espresso maker. I am still researching what to buy in this space although I am leaning towards a lever machine.

I understand that the most critical piece of equipment is the grinder. I currently just use a hario for brewing on v60 or aeropress. I was originally thinking of getting a Eureka Mignon and upgrading later. The Mignon seems like a good bang for the buck lower end motorised grinder. However, after much searching I have run across the big hand grinders - the Grist, the Pharos and the HG-One. The cheaper end of this hand grinder spectrum is the Lido E hand grinder at about £150.

What I am looking for:

Budget ~ £800 ideally much less as that would mean I could spend more on the espresso machine. So this makes me lean towards the Mignon / Lido E as I could probably get the machine and grinder for about this budget.

Coffee - I currently use brewing methods but want a grinder that I can use primarily for espresso once I buy a machine.

Ease of Use - I know this doesn't seem right when talking about hand grinders but I don't want something that is a lot of trouble to use. I am aware (having used Hario) what hand grinding involves - I just don't want to be cursing every morning when making coffee.

Size - I have only a smallish footprint in my kitchen for the grinder so a massive commercial would not be an option. The three hand grinders listed while not small are able to fit.

The three grinders.

The Pharos - lowest on my want list although it's retail price is right at £250 available in Uk (I think this is the latest version). Having watched it in use it seems to be a bit of a beast to grind with and the whole shaking it to get the grounds out puts me off. I suspect that this would quickly start to annoy me. I do appreciate this is a trade off for the bang for buck for its grinding performance.

The HG-One - very pricey and seems that you have to buy direct from the US, also does not seem to have much availability. Looks nice and seems to be quite easy to use. It is the largest of the 3 and would be over £800 with shipping and duty etc.

The Mahlgut Grist - I can't find much information about this one but it appeals to me the most. It is similar size to Pharos, is priced between a Pharos and a HG-One at about £600 and seems to be also reasonably easy to use (sticks to counter and has a grounds tray). However, I have found only one real review of it on a different forum which was glowing but I am concerned it has been out for a while and there are not a lot of reviews.

This was a bit lengthy but I am looking for people's experiences with these grinders especially the Grist. Ideally, I would like to buy into a grinder I won't need or want to replace for a while.

If I am not decided then I will go down the Lido E or Mignon route in short term realising that I can always resell them.

Thanks


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't think you will find any info from UK users of the Grist. I have been doing a fair bit of reading on it lately and there are a few things that may make you choose it over the Pharos. The question is if these few things are worth roughly double the price.

From the review on HB, it seems to be manufactured to tighter tolerances than the Pharos, this is likely the main reason for its higher price.

The suction pads seem to really work, just that bit of extra anchoring means with a hand support the grinding seems relatively easy. I wouldnt fancy installing brackets onto my worksurface for the Pharos.

It is essentially like a Pharos with VooDooDaddy mods, so it's fairer to compare it to the price of this, I am not sure how much the VDD mods cost.

They are planning to release a motor for it by the end of the year, should you get bored of hand grinding down the line this is a modular attachment. No price on this yet. This is one of the main things that appeals to me.

Very easy to disassemble for cleaning.

But on the other hand, from reading the German coffee forum badly translated things like static cling are still very much a problem. Adding drops of water to the beans is mentioned multiple times as being 'essential.'

There has been a group buy on HB and I think they should be getting their grinders soon, so there should be a few more opinions popping up on there.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

If you wanted to go down the HG One route it would be worth posting a wanted note on the Forum and also the Londinium Forum - on the basis that you never know.


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## Hardiz (Nov 21, 2015)

Thanks for the detail Dylan. Static seems to be an issue with all hand grinders.

Phil104 - I will have a think about posting for HG One - I may wait to see what the verdict on the Grist is from the group buy.

Re the Grist - I do like that they plan on adding enhancements, but suppose that depends on whether the grind is a success.

I do notice that most reviews of the HG One and Pharos were glowing to start. But, when the novelty wore off people moved back to mechanical. I like the idea of using a hand grinder, but not sure about long term satisfaction.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

As a former owner of the HG One, first batch, I rarely managed to make good espresso with it, and it wore my shoulder out, I have since read in a couple of places that this might have been due to the lack of support bearings above and below the burrs, which results in a tendency to give an uneven grind.

The other two (on paper) satisfy that issue, as do many of the smaller systems... Though the smaller burrs are not the best idea.

As Dylan points out, static is a problem too... RDT etc. is a must in most environments.

Currently I have a large conical, the Nino, so my shoulder is much better, it works very well, but it does take up a lot of room, effectively bigger than the L1.

When it comes down to it, you cannot stop the tide coming in... There is no replacement for displacement, as the users of the big flatties will attest.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Imho any grinder with no lower burr support will suffer from burr movement whilst beans are being ground and free fall design grinders will suffer from static (which requires RDT) and lack of grind mixing (which forces you to use WDT or any other form of mixing / redistributing the grinds in the basket). I think out of all those three I'd still go for a Pharos (mad I know), but it's a right faff to use in my opinion (some people don't mind it though). I'd also seriously re-think manual grinders, again depends heavily on your mindset I guess, but a motorised grinder is just so much simpler to use.

T.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dsc said:


> Imho any grinder with no lower burr support will suffer from burr movement whilst beans are being ground and free fall design grinders will suffer from static (which requires RDT) and lack of grind mixing (which forces you to use WDT or any other form of mixing / redistributing the grinds in the basket). I think out of all those three I'd still go for a Pharos (mad I know), but it's a right faff to use in my opinion (some people don't mind it though). I'd also seriously re-think manual grinders, again depends heavily on your mindset I guess, but a motorised grinder is just so much simpler to use.
> 
> T.


I think the Mahlgut Grist does have lower burr support, unless I am misunderstanding things. There is a bar that bolts into the frame of the Grist that hold the lower burr central.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Crap, was thinking about a different grinder then







is the outer burr partially floating like on the Pharos? Seem to remember that it was fixed on the model I was using (well was bolted down, but not firmly).

T.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I'm not sure what you mean by partially floating, I just looked up the Pharos and it appears to be bolted to the frame, and I can only assume its the same on the Grist.

The Pharos bottom burr shaft also runs through to the bottom of the grinder, so is also fixed, but is this why you said you would choose the Pharos?


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

sjenner said:


> As a former owner of the HG One, first batch, I rarely managed to make good espresso with it, and it wore my shoulder out, I have since read in a couple of places that this might have been due to the lack of support bearings above and below the burrs, which results in a tendency to give an uneven grind.
> 
> The other two (on paper) satisfy that issue, as do many of the smaller systems... Though the smaller burrs are not the best idea.
> 
> ...


I also fall into the category of someone who owned an HG One and decided to sell. It is a lovely grinder to use and I enjoyed everything about it except for the results. I didn't have any problems whatsoever in terms of the effort of grinding, but I felt like I was always fighting against it to get a good/consistent shot. When I got a good shot it felt like a case of me triumphing over the grinder - in spite of the grinder rather than because of it. Channeling was the main issue despite attempting many different redistribution techniques.

In short: as much as I loved the idea of it, I found it lacking. Having said that, I know lots of people are happy with theirs which is why they don't come up for sale very often.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Dylan said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by partially floating, I just looked up the Pharos and it appears to be bolted to the frame, and I can only assume its the same on the Grist.
> 
> The Pharos bottom burr shaft also runs through to the bottom of the grinder, so is also fixed, but is this why you said you would choose the Pharos?


I remember that in the procedure for assembling the Pharos there was a note to not tighten down the outer burr all the way, but I might be mixing things up at this point, it was a few years ago when I used it.

Yup, Pharos has two bearings / bushings, so from that point of view its more rigid than a HG1 (imho anyway).

There's quite a lot of info about the HG1 on home barista, you just need to make sure you separate the hype and hysteria from relevant facts









T.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Not an easy task, people find it very difficult to admit faults in something they have spent a lot of money on.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

There's that indeed but also HB having its own rather hardcore way of discussing things, I'm sure Boots will agree with me on this one.

T.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think I know vaguely what you mean from reading the odd thread there, nothing like the loving accepting environment we foster here


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

I persevered with my hg one far longer than I thought should be necessary and definitely have reached a point where I can get a good pour from any bean. My distribution method is a little more faff than I would like. I wouldn't buy another Pharos but like the rosco mini and lido e grinders, all of which I own or have owned.

Hg one is fab, ultimately


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

The newer Pharos - the one sold by Coffee Hit - is permanently aligned and does not have the floating outer burr. You could start with that. As no one ever seems to say a bad word about the quality of the results, you could concentrate on your espresso-making without worrying about whether the grinder is up to scratch. And if you do get tired of using it, the resale value is good, or you could keep it as a travel/back up grinder.

Matt


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

The grind quality of the pharos is really good. The downside is the faff of actually getting the grinds out.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Some more user opinions on the Mahlgut Grist now appearing on HB: http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/mahlgut-grinder-kind-of-pharos-ish-t34166-160.html


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

Of the three I've only used the Pharos.

I've had four grinders a La Spaziale Top Instant, Mahlkonig Vario, Anfim Caimano and the Pharos. The Pharos has the best grind quality and whilst not the easiest to use (probably the Vario) - I actually found it less faff than the Caimano for single dosing.

I'm only now (2 and a half years later) considering a motorised grinder - even so only as an addition to the Pharos as OH struggles to use the Pharos and it's hassle when there's a lot of people round wanting coffee. The reason I'd never sell it is the quality of coffee I get from it and the incredible repeatability - I hardly spend any time dialing in or tweaking grind and get picture perfect pours from it - big flavour step up from the Caimano and the Vario.


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