# Silvia prices



## RichD1

Looking for my first set up and the Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Silvia seem to be the two machines that keep coming up as good first machines.

But when looking at prices how can Caffe Italia sell the Silvia for £349 when Bella Barista are charging £449 and Amazon £515.

I've heard that customer service is not too good with Caffe Italia a few years back, but £100 cheaper and a 2 year warranty is pretty compelling.

Where would you buy your Silvia?

Richard


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## ImthatGuy

I bought mine from Myespresso about this time last year for $355. Bella Barista and Amazon we significantly more expensive at the time. I've had no issues with the Silvia


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## Mrboots2u

Here is a simple solution to your quandary . I wouldn't buy a new Silvia at all . Save , buy something that's temp stable . Even at £350 it just price v functionality ( producing a consistent temp ) isn't there for me .

And if you have read all the feedback about caffe italia and you still think it's worth the risk , then by all means buy one and pray you never have to talk to em again about anything wrong with the order or machine .


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## Spazbarista

I'm not sure what else is out there at that price point that doesn't have the same issues. Its actually a pretty good quality machine, but you have to either mod it with a PID or get used to temperature surfing with your fingers crossed. And the steaming is a pain too.

Personally, I'd never go back to a machine of that type. I'd just stump up the extra 500 quid or so for something that isn't going to be such a pain in the arse.


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## Jacko112

I agree - having had one I wouldn't again and that's not to say it's not a good machine producing good coffee because it does but as mentioned above it's incredibly temperature unstable and without a PID takes the fun out making the coffee.

For the budget I'd consider looking at something better but used from the forum - take for example the Fracino/Mignon combo that's currently for sale at £600. Job done!


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## RichD1

Thanks for the feedback Guys. I had started to wonder why Gaggia and Rancilio hadn't introduced a PID version of the Classic or Silvia especially as Sage offers the BE with it fitted. I realise that Sage isn't in the same league as the previously mentioned manufacturers but with all the discussion on the forums about PID I would have thought they would have done something about it.

OK, need to rethink my strategy then.

Richard


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## jimbocz

RichD1 said:


> Thanks for the feedback Guys. I had started to wonder why Gaggia and Rancilio hadn't introduced a PID version of the Classic or Silvia especially as Sage offers the BE with it fitted. I realise that Sage isn't in the same league as the previously mentioned manufacturers but with all the discussion on the forums about PID I would have thought they would have done something about it.
> 
> OK, need to rethink my strategy then.
> 
> Richard


Not sure what you mean by Sage not being "in the same league " as Gaggia or Silva. My Duo Temp Pro does everything a Silva does, but has pre infusion, actual temperature control and steams better from what I hear. The Silva loses in every category except it has easily replaceable parts so you can fix it.

Don't compare with the Barista Express, any machine with a built in grinder is going to have problems.


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## Mrboots2u

@RichD1 it's along time since gaggia were a man Italian coffee machine manufacturer .....

A Silvia boasts of being made of commercial parts , you know apart form the bit that controls the water temp .


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## RichD1

Sorry, no dis-service intended, I was repeating what I had read on the various forums recently. I think it is the longevity of the product which has been questioned and as you say the others have spares readily available.

To be honest it was the Sage range that got me interested several years back when they first launched. With the features you state + PID it is very interesting.

How long have you had your DTP? Any issues?

Richard


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## Stanic

Mrboots2u said:


> A Silvia boasts of being made of commercial parts , you know apart form the bit that controls the water temp .


it is called a small boiler









but the parts are really nice quality and with a PID and decent grinder, Silvia makes a very good espresso

not trying to contradict what other guys said based on more experience..


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## Mrboots2u

Stanic said:


> it is called a small boiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but the parts are really nice quality and with a PID and decent grinder, Silvia makes a very good espresso
> 
> not trying to contradict what other guys said based on more experience..


New silvia plus pid= close to £600? Value for money ? Hmmm. Negated warranty ? Boiler auto fill ?

Some Parts are nice , the cheap ass temp management system isn't . We are on what v4 or 5 now and rancillo can't or won't think of a better temp System. Lazy lazy manufacturing .


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## jimbocz

RichD1 said:


> Sorry, no dis-service intended, I was repeating what I had read on the various forums recently. I think it is the longevity of the product which has been questioned and as you say the others have spares readily available.
> 
> To be honest it was the Sage range that got me interested several years back when they first launched. With the features you state + PID it is very interesting.
> 
> How long have you had your DTP? Any issues?
> 
> Richard


Don't worry, I didn't take it personally, but I didn't want you to make a poor decision based on a generalisation that could be inaccurate.

There is no doubt that Sage machines are not made to be altered or fixed easily, so if that's important to you, then fair enough.

Based only on what happens on this forum, I think the Duo Temp Pros seem to be trouble free and don't break. The more complicated ones that include grinders and pressure gauges and other gubbins have had a few posts here where things have gone wrong. So far, this has been the case with my machine that has worked fine for a year. I've been really happy with it.

That's the disadvantage with the Sage, but there are tons of advantages. It comes with quality versions of many of the extras you will need, like quality baskets, milk pitcher and a blind basket.

Hope this helps you


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## Tewdric

I guess the difference is existing stock imported pre vote vs new stock brought in since the exchange rate bombed.


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## ImthatGuy

Spazbarista said:


> And the steaming is a pain too.


What makes you say that? I'm only asking because that hasn't been my experience, but I could be missing something, not being any kind of expert and all


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## PeterF

Personally I would always buy a machine from Bella Barista as they are experts on the products they sell and possess the knowledge/skill to offer suberb after sales back up. Well worth paying a bit xtra for that


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## oursus

Just for my 2 penn'orth @RichD1 the Silvia is just fine with or without a PID (you have to faff with temp surfing without, but that's just a knack & once learnt, you're easily making decent espresso) I have one with a mecoffee PID, gets used every day for espresso and milk drinks, it's a perfectly decent machine & much more sturdily built than the sage range.

Having said that, I wouldn't buy one new (that goes double for Sage). I would be looking for a second hand Silvia at half price - they're excellent value at that. By the way, something that's rarely mentioned is the temp fluctuation of the classic - correct me if I'm wrong guys, but isn't that still more pronounced?

If you're thinking of spending that kind of money, I'd jump up a bracket, to be honest & buy second hand.


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## Jumbo Ratty

oursus said:


> By the way, something that's rarely mentioned is the temp fluctuation of the classic - correct me if I'm wrong guys, but isn't that still more pronounced?


When drawing 60ml through the group measured with a thermocouple in the filter basket on top of the puck the temp drops by

8 degrees on a gaggia classic

2 degrees on a rancillio silvia

I have the graphs somewhere if this is disputed


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## Mrboots2u

Jumbo Ratty said:


> When drawing 60ml through the group measured with a thermocouple in the filter basket on top of the puck the temp drops by
> 
> 8 degrees on a gaggia classic
> 
> 2 degrees on a rancillio silvia
> 
> I have the graphs somewhere if this is disputed


We have done this before . How do you know where in the temp surfing cycling . It's dropping two degrees but form where each time ?


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## Jumbo Ratty

Mrboots2u said:


> We have done this before . How do you know where in the temp surfing cycling .


if we've done this before then you should know

So, just to refresh your memory

No attempt at temp surfing was done.

The test was conducted purely to see what drop in temperature was measured on each respective machine irrespective of whereabouts they were when they had reached what is considered operating temperature.

It could have been at the lowest point or the hottest point or anywhere in between seeing as no attempt at temp surfing was conducted when both machines had been on for long enough.


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## Mrboots2u

Jumbo Ratty said:


> if we've done this before then you should know
> 
> So, just to refresh your memory
> 
> No attempt at temp surfing was done.
> 
> The test was conducted purely to see what drop in temperature was measured on each respective machine irrespective of whereabouts they were when they had reached what is considered operating temperature.
> 
> It could have been at the lowest point or the hottest point or anywhere in between seeing as no attempt at temp surfing was conducted when both machines had been on for long enough.


And that's kinda my point . 2 degreer

Drop off 88c will make any coffee suck . The dead band in the thermostat means it's really hard and a faff to make consistent espresso ( again based on using one for 6 months ) For the money that a new one costs I'd be looking at something else .


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## Mrboots2u

....


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## Jumbo Ratty

Posts #1 #7 #19 make interesting reading for anyone considering a silvia.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?23822-Oh-Dear&highlight=dear


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## Mrboots2u

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Posts #1 #7 #19 make interesting reading for anyone considering a silvia.
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?23822-Oh-Dear&highlight=dear


I think that guy was treading a path all on his own .


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## oursus

Mrboots2u said:


> And that's kinda my point . 2 degreer
> 
> Drop off 88c will make any coffee suck . The dead band in the thermostat means it's really hard and a faff to make consistent espresso ( again based on using one for 6 months ) For the money that a new one costs I'd be looking at something else .


Suck is a bit fierce Boots... that would make classics sucky x 4 - sure there are plenty who are more than happy with them tho - do we know how the dead band compares on the 2 unmodded machines?


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## Mrboots2u

oursus said:


> Suck is a bit fierce Boots... that would make classics sucky x 4 - sure there are plenty who are more than happy with them tho - do we know how the dead band compares on the 2 unmodded machines?


I wasn't saying your machine sucks , i was saying any espresso brewed at 86-88 is gonna suck .

The potential to brew at these temperatures is more pronounced with a machine that you have to temp surf , thats the draw back , you dont know what temp you are at ...It may be more acceptable with a darker roasted coffee which is easier to extract . That's why you tend to find people finding it easier to dial in those darker roasted coffee on this type of gear , under extract it with a lower temp and its slight more palatable than a fruit forward under extracted espresso .......

It would not cost a company like Rancillo alot to git a better tip manangement system , they just don't seem to think it's important ( they dont apply this to commercial machines btw ... )


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## oursus

Mrboots2u said:


> I wasn't saying your machine sucks , i was saying any espresso brewed at 86-88 is gonna suck .
> 
> The potential to brew at these temperatures is more pronounced with a machine that you have to temp surf , thats the draw back , you dont know what temp you are at ...It may be more acceptable with a darker roasted coffee which is easier to extract . That's why you tend to find people finding it easier to dial in those darker roasted coffee on this type of gear , under extract it with a lower temp and its slight more palatable than a fruit forward under extracted espresso .......
> 
> It would not cost a company like Rancillo alot to git a better tip manangement system , they just don't seem to think it's important ( they dont apply this to commercial machines btw ... )


Mine's PID anyway Boots, wasn't taking offence mate - I modified it for a reason, the element dimming & faster response is something I would be well peeved at having to sort if I'd bought new though, so yeah Rancilio should get their act together, the control circuit would need to be a lot more sophisticated on the SBDU to give the dimming.

Just meaning that people buying at this price point may be on a budget, a learning curve, or just be happy with making flat whites from Rave Chatswood... at £200 or so 2nd hand, are they not still good value?


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## Mrboots2u

Under £200 that are good value . At £450 new i just can't see the value compared to a gaggia second hand..


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## Jumbo Ratty

not everyone wants to buy second hand. you should take that on board


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## Mrboots2u

Jumbo Ratty said:


> not everyone wants to buy second hand. you should take that on board


Then there are still value better options new with better functionality .

That remove alot of pain ( correct temp ) for a new user

If you like the Silvia so much , buy one, then give e an opinion on it.

I bought one , I sold it .


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## Jumbo Ratty

why dont you start a thread about viable alternative brand new machines to a new silvia ?

Perhaps if i once owned a ford focus but now owned a aston martin vanquish i might look back on the ford focus and think it a bit shit.

What machine do you have at home now, just for clarity, and how much it would cost new?


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## Mrboots2u

Jumbo Ratty said:


> why dont you start a thread about viable alternative brand new machines to a new silvia ?
> 
> Perhaps if i once owned a ford focus but now owned a aston martin vanquish i might look back on the ford focus and think it a bit shit.
> 
> What machine do you have at home now, just for clarity, and how much it would cost new?


I would not recommend my set up to anyone . In fact I actively try and discourage people from stuff like the grinder I've used nowadays as people seem to move em on quick at the moment and they cost a ludicrous amount of cash .

Given my time again perhaps I wouldn't have spent as much as I have . But I know that the faff and inconsistency of temp surfing nearly made me give up .

Owning expensive gear thou doesn't invalidate my opinion on a silvia as I've owned a silvia , so i feel I have a valid opinion on it .

I've used some of the sage machines ( oracle - barista express - dual boiler ) and can have a window of opinion on those and to a lesser degree some pro summer Hx machines . Believe it or not Machine chat turns me off coffee a lot . But at the same time seeing a machine getting recommended from a point of view no user experience forces me to post .

There ain't much that here that home barista, cfuk and coffee geek have consensus on but the silvia is one . Even mark prince the king of the silvia can't understand why they don't add better temp management system to it for the cash and he was the guy that sold 1000s of these machines for em .

Personally if you have a really small budget and want to experience the world of great coffee I'd say get a hand grinder and a French press and buy decent coffee .

People come here to get views on gear from people that have used it , as opposed to consumer review sites . At the same time . They can take all the advice with a pinch of salt and ultimately spend there money where they want .

Personally Id be looking at the opinion of someone who has used and owned a piece of gear though

Peace out


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## Daren

Just to add my opinion here.. I had a Sylvia for over a year and at the time of ownership thought it was great. I was puzzled though how people could like lighter roasts as they they were very sour and undrinkable on my equipment. I had a long cooling flush routine which helped slightly - but darker (more forgiving) roasts were always more palatable.

I moved on to second hand HX machine and had a eureka moment. Now I understand why people like light roasts. The cost was only marginally more than a new Silvia, but the difference in output is night and day. I've probably saved myself about 2 years in cooling flush routine faff time

The Home Barista business is a slippery slope of upgrades. I think it's worth sharing previous experiences as some might find it helpful.

Ratty - if you want better value alternatives to the Sylvia then it has to be the Classic. The build quality may not be as industrial, but the output is similar, and it's significantly cheaper. Better still - buy 2nd hand


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## MrOrk

I feel the Silvia is a necessary step in someone's 'journey'. I got mine 18 months ago as I was spending to much money on commercial coffee and was fed up with the faf of my mocha pot (How little did I know).

I am far from making the perfect tasting coffee but I'm learning every day. It's teaching me coffee is most certainly an art and consistency is king. I want to learn more and I have found that out by not spending an unreasonable amount.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, the Silvia shows you what making coffee is about and you'll ether step up to the challenge or walk, most won't lay down £1300 or so just to find that out.


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## willvo84

Stanic said:


> it is called a small boiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but the parts are really nice quality and with a PID and decent grinder, Silvia makes a very good espresso
> 
> not trying to contradict what other guys said based on more experience..


Agree with the above, it's a good machine to learn with, although I was put off when I saw an interview with David Cameron once on the 'box in 10 Downing St and he had one in his kitchen


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## blicero

willvo84 said:


> Agree with the above, it's a good machine to learn with, although I was put off when I saw an interview with David Cameron once on the 'box in 10 Downing St and he had one in his kitchen


That is offputting... Now I can't like The Smiths or the Silvia.


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## realist7

I think simonelli oscar is better than both these but if I had to choose I'd go for a Silvia.


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## L2en

I have Silvia in my kitchen for many years now and still love it a lot. It is true that the battle with lighter roasts is frustrating though.

Unfortunately I suffered an injury that prevents me using it at the moment, I moved onto the Melitta bean to cup, which is as good as it gets for an automatic. However I do hope in recovery and plan to get one of the lever machines or some HX machine in the near future. I agree that Silvia is great for starting to understand coffee and the production, temperatures, and all the technical stuff and I really enjoyed the journey.


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