# Which Sage machine for newbie?



## Obidi (Feb 23, 2019)

I'm very new and have been considering a Sage machine, but really don't know which to buy. I've considered the barista express, but also would be happy with a seperate machine and grinder.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Hi,

I can definitely give a thumbs up for the Sage Duo Temp Pro. It's been a great starter machine for me. I would also recommend you spend money on a separate grinder.


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

One more for DTP


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Lakeland sell the Barista Express as a bean to cup machine. Also with a 3 year warrantee

https://www.lakeland.co.uk/17962/Sage-The-Barista-Express-Bean-To-Cup-Coffee-Machine-BES875UK

I used mine in that fashion always with the same bean in the hopper. Once mastered it produced my americano's like a metronome via a button push. Little variation in the shot output and no taste changes that I noticed. I just had to check the weight of the grinds and adjust the timer to keep it within tight limits. With the bean I was using that didn't prove too onerous but did need rather tiny touches of the timer knob.

Some people buy a Sage Duo Temp Pro along with a Smart Grinder Pro usually mentioning more settings. The SGP does have more settings but is similar to the ones built into the BE as far as espresso is concerned. Many of the settings are for other brewing methods. So really as burrs are the same if some one buys a separate grinder - which one?

Changing beans in either grinder means a certain amount of retuning. In my case due to a particular bean I use a lot setting a time for the dose and keeping it in adjustment initially was somewhat onerous so I finished up with both grinders. If anything from a grinder point of view the BE one is better as it's more inclined to produce fluffy clump free grinds. Some one on here complained about that some time ago - grinds falling out of the basket onto the drip tray. Some do at times but to the extent they mentioned they were probably putting too much into the basket.

The reason I went for a BE is hot water and price of the combination. Buying new it's easy to spend more than the cost of a BE on a grinder. Buying a used one is an option but cost can still be significant and if not likely needing to be used in a certain way - weighing in, lens hood mods or clean sweep dosers etc.

Both machines have a higher running cost now. Sage's new water filter. I live in a very soft water area and the machine uses the old style cheaper filter. It doesn't reduce scale. Thermoblock type machines are well known for scaling up so even in my case it really should be done regularly. What I would do with the latest machines is leave the filter in it's packet and buy a higher capacity pour over filter jug just to clean up the water going into the machine. If some one lives in a harder water area their best option is to switch to a brand of bottled water. There are several that can be used and again don't fit the filter. If some one does use the filter it may be wise to buy some hardness testing strips to check it's progress as it becomes exhausted. The more and harder water that goes through it will reduce life. If people think that filter jugs reduce hardness some testing strips would still be a good idea -







I don't use one and have my doubts but they will have a certain capacity that's dependent on water quality.

Good point about the machines and scale is that they don't take long to descale but it wont be as efficient as a boiler machine where the solution remains in contact for a much longer time.

Grinders are a difficult subject. People have a need to cut their cloth to suite their purse and both grinders can produce good coffee - that in my view largely relates to the user and a learning curve. Maybe an Oracle gets round that which funnily enough uses a very BE like grinder.

John

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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Another DTP vote here. Dead easy to drive, good results, looks nice. A separate grinder gives you two things to upgrade too


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Just make sure you sell it before the warranty ends....


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

Is it that bad or lack of parts?


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## MattyH17 (Feb 26, 2019)

Duo Temp Pro definitely gets my vote:good:. Been faultless


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Lack of parts on the open market + tied to Sage Uk agent for repairs etc.


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

For the parts only electronics are the one that worries me, the rest of the parts are similar to all other espresso machines and widely available online and repair shops. That machines are now well aged so should have some spares or repairs one for sale on the web. Hopefully no need than but never know, my one it's on the second year of warranty but even after that time I am planning to run it till I can, suits me well and no need to upgrade, coffee is great.


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## MC1 (Jul 2, 2018)

Had my DTP for a year now with regular use and it has ran flawlessly. Can recommend. Time will tell what the situation will be like when something fails on it.


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## Twin (Feb 9, 2019)

The BE is definitely a very vise choice if you like it compact. It is a matter of taste of course, but having seen them all the BE looks the best of all the Sage's. It is compact, adds water outlet as well; easy long black's...

But if you use drip coffe often, and would like to grind fresh beans to this use, f.ex. a SGP and a DTP is about the same, and the SGP goes to drip coffee coarsness as well. Unless this is important, the BE has very good reputation, and my own experience supports that. Love the compactness, design, features and is very customisable and easy to use once learned. You would advance to a very high level before the BE comes short, if at all.


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

I've had my BE for about a year and a half now. Haven't done much in terms of modifications or adjustment of temp. settings. I could babble for hours about it's pros and cons, however in short I wouldn't recommend it for a few key reasons:

Main one is the Price. £550 (I paid) was pretty steep, especially when you can get some super great deals out there on the bay for second hand learner machines at the moment, such as Gaggia Classic (make sure it has PID/Pressure reduction/upgraded shower screen, and if you have milk drinks a Silvia steam wand).

Second one is the grinder. £550 for an all-in-one machine is actually quite expensive, as when you compare it to the DTP (same internals just without grinder), you end up paying about £200 for just the grinder alone, which is stepped as well - I would sooner spend £200 on a Sette 270, or, as I have done, a good hand Grinder from Knock (Feld2:Honed if you were wondering, Aergrind has the same burrset though). I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure you could get a used Mazzer for not much more than that as well, which would be ace. Not to mention that if your grinder breaks you're left with an unusable machine as you can't grind beans to get started!

Third is its lack of parts/spares. I'm at the point now where I want to get a distribution tool, a funnel, a nice calibrated tamper, a bottomless PF, etc. and I find myself either having to DIY them or 3D print parts (such as a funnel for tipping my grinds out of my Feld2). I'm about to hole-saw out a PF to make it bottomless, however you can't just buy a spare - you have to go through the Sage agents which in itself can be like running through treacle. Granted they DO respond, but not always with the answer you want (they have no spare PF's in for now until they have a batch from America - Breville - I guess, as the 870XL is exactly the same).

All that being said, it has been a very good machine to learn on, and, even with its limited parameter control (temp., pressure), it has been good to me and can make a decent espresso. Just these naggling things have made it a bit more of an inconvenience as my passion and desire to tinker has developed as my knowledge of espresso increases.

The vibe pump is also properly loud, so not too great when you're in a second storey flat!!!

You could consider going on a barista course and trying their machines and seeing if you actually like a pump machine or even if a Lever machine might be more to your taste. I think the Sage's are well built, but do have a notoriety for breaking (especially the grinder apparently - I've never had an issue though).


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## Obidi (Feb 23, 2019)

Thanks all for your input. In the end I've gone for a mazzer grinder and lelit machine, just waiting for them to arrive.............


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