# Tips for a new brewer please



## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Hi

ive started to use my Sage DB

using a Dualit Burr grinder until my Sage one arrives and was wondering if I could run my technique by you kind folks.

Supermarket bought beans bought yesterday but mistake number one noticed the roasted date was 2 weeks ago!! Taylors of Harrogate Rich Italian number 4

grind is not like flour but not far off with slight gritty feel

temperature set to default 93 degrees

i warm the filter holder and basket

Total extraction set at default 30 seconds

8 seconds go by before i see coffee which according to instructions is good

skimmed milk used, but tried with full fat and still bitter

coffee tastes a little bitter, any ideas if its technique or stale beans please

thankyou


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

how dark is the roast?

would be surprised if the beans were roasted two weeks ago in a supermarket! so could be stale, 2 weeks is absolutely fine for espresso


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Hi thanks for the reply

quite a light roast and on the pack had a roasted date of 2 weeks ago


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Your Grinder and beans are not up to making tasty coffee .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Your Grinder and beans are not up to making tasty coffee .


Nor is the grinder coming


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Get some scales annd do some reading for when you ready to start with decent beans ...

Beginners Reading - Weighing Espresso - Brew Ratios

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22879

http://www.baristahustle.com/the-espresso-compass/


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Your Grinder and beans are not up to making tasty coffee .


Bit surpised how 2 grinders of this type cant be up to it!

Whats exactly wrong with them?


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Get some scales annd do some reading for when you ready to start with decent beans ...
> 
> Beginners Reading - Weighing Espresso - Brew Ratios
> 
> ...


thanks

ive got some scales on the way and been doing plenty of reading


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Currymonster said:


> Bit surpised how 2 grinders of this type cant be up to it!
> 
> Whats exactly wrong with them?


Its not fit for a de pressurised espresso basket ... It won't deliver a consistent particle size for tasty espresso .

It might not even be going fine enough . You may be stalling flow but simply overloading the basket with coffee .

It's hard to tell why your coffee is bitter without knowing your " recipe " as in my other links .

It could be your coffee is just bitter ...

It could be it being brewed really strong and the strength your are tasting is coming over as " bitterness "

It could be that your putting too much water through the coffee and over extracting it . Causing bitterness ...

Have a look at the links I posted but ultimately your coffee isn't great and your need a decent grinder and a consistent dose to get to a recipe. Recipe will help you to make adjournments

Ps I had a duality for a while


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

they are just mediocre entry level grinders, you will get much more out of the DB with a decent grinder


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Ok thanks for the info


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> they are just mediocre entry level grinders, you will get much more out of the DB with a decent grinder


Any suggestions for a decent grinder?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Many depends on your budget, whether you want new or used, on demand or dose. We can point you in the right direction though.


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

I would say on demand brand new


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Mmm begining to think I made big mistake going for the setup I have

sage DB with pro grinder

i can see a return to store happening while I still have the chance


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Currymonster said:


> Mmm begining to think I made big mistake going for the setup I have
> 
> sage DB with pro grinder
> 
> i can see a return to store happening while I still have the chance


What's the reason for that?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The machine is respected by many your week link is the grinder


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

jlarkin said:


> What's the reason for that?


It appears the general feeling from what I can see is the Sage pro grinder is lower end of the scale and as it comes as part of the sage db package it looks to me like the pro grinder isnt good enough to work with the sage db

i do of course fully realise the beans i am using are more than likely crap


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The deal is a decent one in getting the grinder without the machine. Sell it on a get a better grinder to get the most from the db


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> The deal is a decent one in getting the grinder without the machine. Sell it on a get a better grinder to get the most from the db


Ok thanks

i would prob find it hard to want to spend more than £300 on a grinder


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I think it's a really good machine but also have one.

Assuming you got it at a good price it's hard to see what you'd get that would be better value machine wise, in my opinion anyway. Moving the grinder on, unused, could help funds for something else grinder wise.


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

jlarkin said:


> I think it's a really good machine but also have one.
> 
> Assuming you got it at a good price it's hard to see what you'd get that would be better value machine wise, in my opinion anyway. Moving the grinder on, unused, could help funds for something else grinder wise.


Yeah think i will do that

cheers


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-silver.html

So is this well respected?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You are looking at this the wrong way. The coffee machine is akin to an oven. It might have lots of bells and whistles but if you put crap ingredients into your oven, the cake you bake will be no good.

The grinder is far more important than than coffee machine. People somehow think that because the Sage has lots of features, it will somehow cover over cracks that might exist in your knowledge and the skill sets required to make a decent cuppa.

Having spent £800 or so on a machine, in order to get theist out of your new purchase you need a half decent grinder. The Mignon is admirable and I have had many of them, but, it has very small burrs. To keep it simple, the larger the burrs, it seems the better the extraction capabilities.

Everyone is going to have their own thoughts but I would look for 64/65 mm burrs as minimum. The Eureka 65 series would be the minimum for me

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/eureka-zenith-65e-grinder-white.html


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Currymonster said:


> I would say on demand brand new


If you might consider used and not on demand you can get a very good grinder for £300 - new plus on demand will give you far fewer options.


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Jon said:


> If you might consider used and not on demand you can get a very good grinder for £300 - new plus on demand will give you far fewer options.


Thanks

In hindsight i dont reckon I am keen enough to spend another £300 after spending £850 on the DB already

so i guess I better not complain about coffee quality in future









cheers for the advice everyone


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Currymonster said:


> Thanks
> 
> In hindsight i dont reckon I am keen enough to spend another £300 after spending £850 on the DB already
> 
> ...


You might as well not bother buying fresh beans either then and just stick with supermarket stuff like Lavazza


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Currymonster said:


> Thanks
> 
> In hindsight i dont reckon I am keen enough to spend another £300 after spending £850 on the DB already
> 
> ...


You can sell the sage grinder for £100 then buy a super jolly for a bit more. One sold for £160 on here a few days ago...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Currymonster said:


> Thanks
> 
> In hindsight i dont reckon I am keen enough to spend another £300 after spending £850 on the DB already
> 
> ...


Well the gear you have is what you deem affordable (at the moment, in future you might re-asses?), but following MrBoots2U's link, monitoring & adjusting what you are doing will help you with the quality of the drinks you make, within the context of the gear & beans you use.


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## Currymonster (Apr 3, 2016)

Thanks for the replies all makes good sense to me

cheers

CM


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## rcoltz (Apr 1, 2016)

Currymonster said:


> Thanks for the replies all makes good sense to me. cheers CM


Currymonster, glad it makes sense and do not despair!

The road to a fine cup of coffee is not in the equipment one buys, it is in the learnings you take from each bit of equipment when you invariably replace it with an upgrade! As a mere novice in the ways of coffee, I am going through the steps of moving from budget to high end grinders and espresso machine equipment and every step has improved the coffee but more importantly it has been a learning process that you take to the next level with every new bit of kit.

The weird dynamic on coffee is that you can have fanciest, most capable espresso machine in the world, however if the grinder cannot grind coffee consistently, cleanly or fine enough you might as well pop the top on the Maxwell House and brew the kettle. It is akin to filling your V12 petrol Bentley with diesel!

The first bit of advise given to me was to spend the money on the grinder and less on the coffee machine. I started with reconditioning a Mazzer (ex-commercial model due for the skip) and just bought a £200 basic machine. It is only recently that I have upgraded the machine to the £2k level but the grinder still holds its own (after replacing a few bits).

You have a good machine, but the warning the folks here are pointing out is that you may find it hard (if not impossible) to get a good result in the cup. It could become very frustrating because you need the consistence and fine grind of a better grinder to eek the best from the Sage DB. Do try a reconditioned or secondhand grinder as they will get you the results without the spending. I would definitely not worry about the fancy dosing and additional functionality bits of grinders as most folk who care about consistent quality shots will weigh the ground coffee into the portafilter anyway and weigh the shot out as it falls into the cup.

Good luck!


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