# Bottomless?



## BaristaofBards (Jul 24, 2020)

So, I'm fairly new to the game and am still very much honing my skills on a pretty cheap setup which I am looking to upgrade in the near future. With that in mind, is a bottomless filter the only way to go to achieve espresso bliss?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BaristaofBards said:


> So, I'm fairly new to the game and am still very much honing my skills on a pretty cheap setup which I am looking to upgrade in the near future. With that in mind, is a bottomless filter the only way to go to achieve espresso bliss?


 No, it's not but it has 3 advantages.



Easy to clean after the shot and less dirty portafilter metal in contact with the coffee...cleanest way really


Good view of the shot to diagnose any extraction issues


Great for slo mo vdeos with music.


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## Stan Stalinson (Jul 1, 2020)

For me it has been very useful to spot any channeling that was occurring. It shouldn't affect the taste though.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stan Stalinson said:


> For me it has been very useful to spot any channeling that was occurring. It shouldn't affect the taste though.


 With a normal portafilter, how often do remove the basket from the portafilter body, clean the basket and the portafilter body inside with detergent (washing up liquid)? Then use a small bottle brush and detergent to clean the hole and the portafilter spouts

If it's not every day...it will affect the taste, even after a few coffees there is already dried coffee oils there..


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Bottomless was a curio for me. I got one as a learning tool so I could see what was happening with my distribution, tamping, WDT etc.

DavecUK makes a good point about cleaning. Whatever you use, clean properly after every shot. Make it part of the workflow.


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## Stan Stalinson (Jul 1, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> With a normal portafilter, how often do remove the basket from the portafilter body, clean the basket and the portafilter body inside with detergent (washing up liquid)? Then use a small bottle brush and detergent to clean the hole and the portafilter spouts
> 
> If it's not every day...it will affect the taste, even after a few coffees there is already dried coffee oils there..


 Ah I didn't think about that


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> <snip>
> 
> 
> 
> Great for slo mo vdeos with music.


 Really, this is the only thing that matters. In life.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stan Stalinson said:


> Ah I didn't think about that


 It's only because I'm bloody lazy and like clean stuff with little effort. In my videos and reviews you might see me use the manufacturers supplied portafilter (unless I forget) because I sort of have to. However, the bottomless is the first thing I put in and use when I'm not videoing or photographing for a review.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Bottomless was a curio for me. I got one as a learning tool so I could see what was happening with my distribution, tamping, WDT etc.
> 
> DavecUK makes a good point about cleaning. Whatever you use, clean properly after every shot. Make it part of the workflow.


 What did the bottomless portafilter make you change the most in your routine ?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Blue_Cafe said:


> What did the bottomless portafilter make you change the most in your routine ?


 Tbh I can't say it's made a huge difference to the process, it's just confirmed that I'm doing things right (as oppose to at start when it would spurt more). So I'm more accurate with my grind setting now, I find it flows better when I grind on the finer side. It's a bit better (water comes through puck more evenly) when I use my spinning distribution tool rather than just knocking the pf. I've learned that using a WDT doesn't really make much difference. Seeing the colour/blonding of the pour, the thickness (it wants to be a bit like honey I find), tells me I'm on the right track.

I don't think a bottomless is a panacea, but I think it gives you more information and as a newbie information is what you want.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

It's also easier to tamp


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> Tbh I can't say it's made a huge difference to the process, it's just confirmed that I'm doing things right (as oppose to at start when it would spurt more). So I'm more accurate with my grind setting now, I find it flows better when I grind on the finer side. It's a bit better (water comes through puck more evenly) when I use my spinning distribution tool rather than just knocking the pf. I've learned that using a WDT doesn't really make much difference. Seeing the colour/blonding of the pour, the thickness (it wants to be a bit like honey I find), tells me I'm on the right track.
> 
> I don't think a bottomless is a panacea, but I think it gives you more information and as a newbie information is what you want.


 Nice reply.

As you say, sometimes knowing you are doing nothing wrong is as important as knowing you are doing everything right.


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## BaristaofBards (Jul 24, 2020)

Thank you for all your replies. I think a bottomless pf might help with the learning of this dark art.

I haven't done any slow Mo vids yet but I don't think it will be long.

My proper plunge in to the world of espresso is looking like a bezzera hobby (if I can find one) and a Eureka mignon specialita.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

A standard portafilter hides a multitude of sins though, especially the single spout as the liquid only has one place to go!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

It certainly does. I've had a naked for years and never think of using the spouted one. Partly for cleanliness and taste, partly because I get great satisfaction from one of those lovely pours you get when it goes well, and I'll live with a few splats and spritzers when they happen (which they do, even after all these years!) It's a good point about making it easy to tamp flat too. I 'snapped' the spout off the PF during a trial for a barista job which didn't help make a great impression...

I mostly use the spouted one with a blind basket for backflushing. Easy to just leave those 2 together so I can do a water flush after each day's last shot, and the cafiza as and when.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BaristaofBards (Jul 24, 2020)

What about crema? Is it harder to create with a bottomless pf?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BaristaofBards said:


> What about crema? Is it harder to create with a bottomless pf?


 No, it's easier.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> No, it's easier.


 Don't forget the choice of using magic beans Dave.....a lot of folks think Jack & the beanstalk is fantasy, but I am sure we know better


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## BaristaofBards (Jul 24, 2020)

Can you get those magic beans from also?😉


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## ahok (Jul 23, 2020)

mmmatron said:


> It's also easier to tamp


 is this purely because there's no spout so it's easier to keep flat?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ahok said:


> is this purely because there's no spout so it's easier to keep flat?


 I'd say so, yes.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

ahok said:


> is this purely because there's no spout so it's easier to keep flat?


 With a spouted one new people sometimes use something like the below. I have that one and once you get used to it, 'keeping flat' isn't really an issue. It's more to do with the pressing down than keeping the pf flat.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CAFELAT-TAMPING-STAND-MIRROR/dp/B01ENQL4O2


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

ahok said:


> is this purely because there's no spout so it's easier to keep flat?


Without a stand you'd need to balance the spouts on the mat or worktop edge so it wouldn't be flat and would wobble around when tamping. Potential to damage spouts also. Out of interest, La Marzocco have a flat area on their Spouted PFs.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Same as Lelit's, but in a different way:









Copyright: Lelit, extracted from:


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## BaristaofBards (Jul 24, 2020)

Yeah I've done a few wonky tamps and I'm very much coming to the conclusion that I need to know what is going on with the puck because an under extracted shot is such a let down.


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## ahok (Jul 23, 2020)

CocoLoco said:


> With a spouted one new people sometimes use something like the below. I have that one and once you get used to it, 'keeping flat' isn't really an issue. It's more to do with the pressing down than keeping the pf flat.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/CAFELAT-TAMPING-STAND-MIRROR/dp/B01ENQL4O2


 Are these sturdy enough to be able to apply the required pressure for tamping? Would you recommend skipping these and going straight for a bottomless PF?


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

ahok said:


> Are these sturdy enough to be able to apply the required pressure for tamping? Would you recommend skipping these and going straight for a bottomless PF?


 It's molded steel, I'm 73kg, I could stand on it I reckon! It's very sturdy yes, don't worry about that.

Would I go straight for a bottomless...are you new to the game? What machine do you have? How much is a bottomless?

I got that stand on this website very cheap and well before I got a bottomless so I'm glad I did. Should you skip that and just get a bottomless?...yeah probably. You'll be able to see what's going on, it'll help you diagnose problems, as DavecUK said it'll be cleaner too.


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## ahok (Jul 23, 2020)

No machine yet unfortunately so yes you could say I'm new to the game 😂

Thank you for the replies!


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## thawhat (Jul 29, 2020)

A bottomless portafilter is something I've wanted to get for a while but having a BE it's a pain to find a decent one. It's either wait 4 months for a Chinese one or spend £100+ on a custom made from a company like Pullman. 🙃


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

For common machines, 3rd party bottomless are plentiful on fleabay. And yes, they are easy to tamp, and easier to clean.

When I was using my normal spouted portafilter, I gave the business end a soak once a month in a hot water and caffiza mix. Gets the coffee oils off pretty easily, tho it does need a lot of rinsing afterwards.


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## smatty (May 4, 2020)

I picked one up recently and found it meant I could fit the scales under the cup on the gaggia classic which was handy!


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

thawhat said:


> A bottomless portafilter is something I've wanted to get for a while but having a BE it's a pain to find a decent one. It's either wait 4 months for a Chinese one or spend £100+ on a custom made from a company like Pullman. 🙃


 £30, delivered in 12 days. Used this morning, all good so far.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52338-successful-bottomless-54mm-portafilter-from-china/?do=embed


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## spookydoo (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm thinking of getting a bottomless pf to assist with extraction. any thoughts on angled vs straight handles if tamping on a mat. should all angled ones allow the basket to sit flush on the surface? are straight handles better as the entire handle will be parallel to the worktop? or is this a non-issue


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## allyburns (Sep 27, 2020)

I have a Lelit and thought I'd keep with the same brand for the bottomless portafilter, wondering myself the difference between the "Classic handle" and "Design handle". Annoyingly they don't have a side on or end on picture to see how level they are!



https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082BQCKLM/ref=emc_b_5_t


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082BPRJFP/ref=emc_b_5_t










The Design handle looks to be a similar shape the the one that comes with it.

I think I'm sticking with black as my *mind started to explode* when thinking of trying to match the *wood *on the Niche Zero, the tamper, and the portafilter!

I could then get the tamper below and be able to sleep at night! £49.90 seems quite steep (I know there are much dearer ones too!) but 58.55 seems optimal if precision engineered. Anyone got one of these tampers, or either of the Lelit portafilters above?

https://www.maxicoffee.com/en-gb/lelit-stainless-steel-tamper-5855mm-p-80049.html?lgw_code=11806-80049&gclid=CjwKCAjw_sn8BRBrEiwAnUGJDn7jA4VPiaby5pkPhCR5ywofk1iOZE-0RU882Hf4ikC3gZZb5iv2BBoCB78QAvD_BwE

I'd feel like a Lelit fanboi if I got them, but I do like the brand, I guess I am a fan!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

allyburns said:


> I have a Lelit and thought I'd keep with the same brand for the bottomless portafilter, wondering myself the difference between the "Classic handle" and "Design handle". Annoyingly they don't have a side on or end on picture to see how level they are!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Personally.... I don't like the Elizabeth portafilter handle. I very much prefer the one with the "Classic" handle. I think it costs £44 at Amazon.

as per the precision tamper above. Personally, not my thing. I do think 58.55mm is too big for VST baskets. It's really perfection, but you'll need to be careful otherwise you'll suck the puck back up when lifting the tamper out of the basket, in my opinion. Saying that, this one has grooves and may even have a tapered base, which might be fine, sot sure.


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## spookydoo (Sep 13, 2020)

I'm not too keen on the design of the Elizabeth portafilter either, i think it's the angular end in the palm of the hand, so will be looking to get a more rounded one. Either the PLA580S as above or the Nuovo one on BB. I do like the shape of the Bianca style walnut one but it seems Lelit don't do a black version.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

spookydoo said:


> I do like the shape of the Bianca style walnut one but it seems Lelit don't do a black version.


 You could probably rub it down and stain it, then wax...or Matt varnish.


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