# Soggy puck



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

I have always experienced a soggy puck after pulling a shot. Could this be a solenoid issue....? I.e. The solenoid isn't closing off quick enough following turning the water off? If this is the case, what would be the suggested remedial action...? (Gaggia Classic)

thanks

Paul


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

PHB1969 said:


> I have always experienced a soggy puck after pulling a shot. Could this be a solenoid issue....? I.e. The solenoid isn't closing off quick enough following turning the water off? If this is the case, what would be the suggested remedial action...? (Gaggia Classic)
> 
> thanks
> 
> Paul


Maybe, but not always.

Does water exit the tube into the drip tray?

What basket are you using and what weight dosage? I usually have a slightly soggy puck as I dose 14g in a 15g basket.

Simple answer is if you underdose, there is more room for water above the puck, which cannot all be sucked off by the solenoid.

Examine your puck next time. Can you see any indentation from the screw of the shower screen? If not, there was probably headroom above the puck, which filled with water, not all of which could be removed by the solenoid.

I researched this point a lot recently and the consensus was not to panic, and focus more on timings, weights, and taste


----------



## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

Correct me if I'm wrong - solenoid vents any water which creates excess pressure, but it doesn't vent all the water out from the puck. A soggy puck is perfectly normal, especially if you disengage your pf right after the pull. I notice that if I leave my pf lying on the drip tray for about 30s-1min it goes from soggy to a dry puck pretty quickly. It's only an issue if the grounds are too fine that water isn't getting through properly, but if you get a soggy puck after a good pull in the cup I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Can you elaborate on what model number it is?

Is it the 2015 version perhaps? That doesnt have a solenoid


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

nightslayer said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong - solenoid vents any water which creates excess pressure, but it doesn't vent all the water out from the puck.


Interesting point there.

The coffee does get sucked up behind the OEM shower screen (hence another reason for the IMS upgrade), and from my interpretation of the articles and comments I have read, I always interpreted that the solenoid extracts excess water and pressure from the portafilter immediately upon disengaging the brew switch. I guessed this indicated water and some grounds being extracted from the portafilter.

Would be interesting if that was a misunderstanding!


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Also confirm whether you're using a pressurised or un pressurised basket?


----------



## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

My understanding is that there is pressure built up in the system which is then released through a channel which opens in the solenoid. So yes water/coffee gets pulled through (I have the IMS and grounds/coffee go there anyway), but it is not 'extracted' so much as it is 'vented'. The solenoid does not have any sort of extraction mechanism. So the pressure across the system is equalized to atmospheric pressure, but that still leaves water in the pf - just unpressurized.


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Can you elaborate on what model number it is?
> 
> Is it the 2015 version perhaps? That doesnt have a solenoid


It is definitely an earlier model with a solenoid.


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Also confirm whether you're using a pressurised or un pressurised basket?


Unpressurised double basket


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

PHB1969 said:


> Unpressurised double basket


What size and what dosage? It's probably just the amount of coffee and the space for water to sit there


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

It has an ims shower screen and brass group head. Don't recall seeing any water venting into the drip tray via the overflow pipe. It may do but I haven't specifically seen it - not like when I back flush, when it spits outs! No screw impression in the puck, so may be underfilled?


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

It's an unscientific 15g - based upon a scoop I have which when level is c 15g. I have weighed several times and appreciate the benefit of doing so, but perhaps have become a little more lazy....this has beeen both the beans and the ground coffee that I was weighing.


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

PHB1969 said:


> It's an unscientific 15g - based upon a scoop I have which when level is c 15g. I have weighed several times and appreciate the benefit of doing so, but perhaps have become a little more lazy....this has beeen both the beans and the ground coffee that I was weighing.


If I get a soggy puck when I play with mine in a short while I will send a photo to compare.

I underdose slightly = soggy puck!

If backflushing releases lots of water through the vent pipe then the solenoid is probably working properly.

Just bought these any helped my dosing no end https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272534243381


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

How does it compare to this?










Quite pleased with the result (excuse the dirty cup!) - 30g in 28 seconds and tasted good!


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

PHB1969 said:


> Don't recall seeing any water venting into the drip tray via the overflow pipe. It may do but I haven't specifically seen it - not like when I back flush, when it spits outs!


This shows how much water vents from my pipe when pulling a shot, skip to 2.20 in, its in slow mo.

And yes, i like lungos


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

@rob177palmer - Yes, I'm about as soggy as that too!


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

PHB1969 said:


> Yes, I'm about as soggy as that too!


I would say give the anal measuring in and out plus shot timing a try for a week and see what happens and report back. My shots are genuinely 100% improved in the past week of me trying properly to nail this.


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Everything improves by throwing money at it - can I suggest IMS basket and filter screen, brass dispersion plate, weighing scales and that should sort you nicely!

(Did someone say PID??!)


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

rob177palmer said:


> I would say give the anal measuring in and out plus shot timing a try for a week and see what happens and report back. My shots are genuinely 100% improved in the past week of me trying properly to nail this.


I might drop to a single basket and play a little more with that with dosing and seeing how soggy or otherwise I end up - but I often get the comments from the other half about what are you messing about with and when's my coffee going to be ready.....!!!....and thanks for your input and feedback


----------



## PHB1969 (Dec 26, 2016)

...and was the 30g from 15g of ground coffee? Would you normally expect to dose 15 or 16 or something different? Thank you Paul


----------



## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

PHB1969 said:


> I might drop to a single basket and play a little more with that with dosing and seeing how soggy or otherwise I end up - but I often get the comments from the other half about what are you messing about with and when's my coffee going to be ready.....!!!....and thanks for your input and feedback


If the single basket you're thinking of is the Gaggia one - I have had very bad results with that and it seems most of the forum has had as well; something to do with the way the basket is shaped! But YMMV if you want to give it a go anyway, just be aware this is one of the instances where you can blame your tools...

My pucks are about as soggy as the picture up there as well, at least for the first 15 seconds or so post-removal! It quickly gets dry as I leave the pf sitting while I steam my milk and pour before dumping the puck out. Never been an issue for me, and I really wouldn't worry about it if you're getting good espresso.


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Buy scales!

Single basket will almost certainly be easier to overloaded, so you will probably not get soggy puck, but you will not be evenly extracting as the grounds won't have space to swell with the water added.

Get scales and focus on either single or double basket at the right weight, that will allow you to dial in tamp pressure and grind.

I am talking from experience from my last 2 weeks, which have been invaluable.

And yes - 30g fluid weight shot from 14g coffee is my current "recipe". It might need finessing, but is a frankly a superb start compared to my shots in mid Feb


----------



## twentynineteen (Oct 7, 2014)

slightly off topic but I read rob177palmers post and gave a 14g shot a try instead of my usual 17g and it was far better. Result!

I didn't realise soggy pucks were an issue till now. should I be adjusting my grind consistency?


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

twentynineteen said:


> should I be adjusting my grind consistency?


Great news that the different weight was an improvement.

with the new dose how close do you get a c. 30 g weigh in around 30 seconds?

Mazzer SJ, Gaggia Classic, PID, IMS 15g basket & shower screen, brass dispersion plate.....in need of a naked portafilter!


----------



## twentynineteen (Oct 7, 2014)

rob177palmer said:


> Great news that the different weight was an improvement.
> 
> with the new dose how close do you get a c. 30 g weigh in around 30 seconds?
> 
> Mazzer SJ, Gaggia Classic, PID, IMS 15g basket & shower screen, brass dispersion plate.....in need of a naked portafilter!


It's pretty much spot on at the moment. I've got a graef CM grinder, gaggia classic, standard double basket, standard screen, brass dispersion plate. Seem to get a fairly even extraction by watching the naked portafilter. After a couple of days living with a lower dose, I'm convinced my coffee tastes better so I'm wondering if I should quit while I'm ahead! (those PID kits do look v. tempting though)


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

twentynineteen said:


> I'm wondering if I should quit while I'm ahead!


NO!! 

PID kit has been a lot of fun. Now I can make consistent pours, I've started to change the temp a few degrees and taste the massive difference that makes. Once you have a temp you like for that coffee, temp surfing is just one less thing to think about between shots. Would recommend the PID for sure.


----------

