# Fracino Puccini vs. Little Gem - is it worth & your thoughts



## Kowalencki (Dec 4, 2016)

Hey guys,

Thinking of upgrading from Gaggia Classic and would like your opinion on the below machines:

Fracino Piccino - 550 euro although I think I could get it to 450 euro:

https://www.adverts.ie/business-stock/fracino-piccino-coffee-machine/13852744

Little Gem Fracino - 500 euro and probably could also get it down to 450 euro:

https://www.adverts.ie/other-business-office/little-gem-fracino-coffee-machine/14044323

Can't find too much info about both of them and how they compare to each other. Piccino is pretty much brand new and has been only on one exhibition; Little Gem has been used in the small coffee place.

Appreciate your thoughts. Also, what would you be looking at when inspecting them before buying?

Cheers.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I started reading around about both these in the early part of last year.

I recall that the Piccino has poor temp stability (not ideal for espresso extraction) but overall worked well with the dual boilers. I stuck with my Classic in the end and added a PID as I drink straight shots that was a bettter soliton for me. If you steam milk every time then a slightly inferior espresso might be worth the trade off for easier steaming.

I recall that the "little" gem was ironically named, but was a good machine. Definitely a commercial offering so make sure you have counter space and there will undoubtedly be a big boiler in there so likely higher running costs?

There are some Fracino experts on here though.


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## Kowalencki (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks for the info. What do you think about prices?


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Kowalencki said:


> Thanks for the info. What do you think about prices?


The uk Nisbets will do a Piccino for £550 if you talk to them in store, I realise the Irish website is way off that but may be worth giving them a call, at £550 I thought it was one of the best value for money new machines available. However at £400 secondhand it has more competition


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## Kowalencki (Dec 4, 2016)

rob177palmer said:


> I started reading around about both these in the early part of last year.
> 
> I recall that the Piccino has poor temp stability (not ideal for espresso extraction) but overall worked well with the dual boilers.


1. Can you advise on why exactly the poor stability is affected especially it's a dual boiler ? Is it because the group head has to be flushed and there's no indicator for brew temp. ?

2. Heard descaling is a little painful. Can anyone advise whether it's possible to do at home? Any video on how it's performed?

3. What mods are available for Piccino and which one would you recommend?

Cheers guys. Little gem seems like a really big machine and might just take too much counter space to install it so will probably go with Piccino.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

1. I understand there is a large "dead band" in the temperature sensor, so the boiler temperature is allowed to vary a lot, rather than be kept at a precise temperature . The temp of the water that comes out can vary massively. As a generalisation, better temperature stability makes for more consistent and tastier espresso. So the black drinks from the baby gem will likely be substantially better. In general this machine would be best for you if you have restricted countertop space and you drink coffee with milk.

2. I heard this too, but please investigate for yourself as I never for the answer.

3. I understand very few significant ones available. Fracino were promising a PID Piccino, which could potentially make this a damn good machine for the price, but I haven't seen this materialise yet.

Little gem would be a heavy chunk of kit for a first machine. Piccino would be great at a good price but don't pay over the odds for one as you might wish to change it once the shortcomings of the temp instability start to matter to you - there is every chance you would get years of enjoyment from a Piccino tho so this is not to say to avoid it!


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

rob177palmer said:


> 1. I understand there is a large "dead band" in the temperature sensor, so the boiler temperature is allowed to vary a lot, rather than be kept at a precise temperature . The temp of the water that comes out can vary massively. As a generalisation, better temperature stability makes for more consistent and tastier espresso. So the black drinks from the baby gem will likely be substantially better. In general this machine would be best for you if you have restricted countertop space and you drink coffee with milk.
> 
> 2. I heard this too, but please investigate for yourself as I never for the answer.
> 
> ...


Echo what Rob has said don't rule it out because of temperature stability if other plus points outweigh it at that price point , had a small play with a Piccino and was pretty impressed but if you could talk to a long term owner that would be best, also contact with fracino is easy and and although expensive their service covers quite a bit.


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## Kowalencki (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks guys. Appreciate the input.

I'm coming from Gaggia Classic so I guess I should feel the improvement. Generally I was happy with the Gaggia but over the last months it's giving me more trouble than pleasure (changed steam valve and water started dripping from the steam wand after few weeks of use, now not pouring shots when the machine is hot [need to disassemble and check solenoid] , steam wand doesn't provide enough power to steam more than one cup of milk at once).

The offer for Fracino Piccino seems reasonable as the machine was only on exhibition so I guess very little use. I like the design, price and the idea of simultaneous steaming and brewing. I see small cons (temp. stability, no brew light) but with some possible routine and more experience I have a feeling that I could cope with it. Also, the counter top size is quite important.

Not sure if anyone could recommend anything better in 400-500 pound range. I welcome any input though so feel free to post some options down below. Cheers!


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Kowalencki said:


> Thanks guys. Appreciate the input.
> 
> I'm coming from Gaggia Classic so I guess I should feel the improvement. Generally I was happy with the Gaggia but over the last months it's giving me more trouble than pleasure (changed steam valve and water started dripping from the steam wand after few weeks of use, now not pouring shots when the machine is hot [need to disassemble and check solenoid] , steam wand doesn't provide enough power to steam more than one cup of milk at once).
> 
> ...


Have you considered a lever? Small footprint, look great and some experts on here who always offer good advise. Plenty of la pavoni's can be bought for new for your budget


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I have a Piccino as a 2nd machine. They way I would put it is that it's designed to use a particular type of extraction - initially hot and then cooling. One interesting aspect is that it initially produces a darker flow than my other machine a Barista Express that uses PID and a thermoblock for heating. The BE also has infusion. Net effect comparing the 2 is that the Piccino needs more coffee. On the bean I was using 9.3g was ok in the BE the Piccino needed the 12g basket. I'd guess the difference is down to the infusion on the BE. I use rather large mugs said to be 400ml size and drink long blacks.

The Gem is a HX machine. Brew water is heated up by passing it through a tube in the much hotter boiler used to generate steam. That means that the brew water can be really hot if the machine is standing unused. The answer is brief flush to get the over heated water out of the tube - at least that is what pundits suggest. I've not owned one so pass but have seen people in cafes doing that. The Gem also has a hot water outlet. Sometimes that is obtained directly from the steam boiler. Not sure what the Gem does.

The Piccino is a low height cup machine - read traditional. The Gem isn't. Taller mugs can be used on the Piccino with an open bottomed portafilter even the ones I use which need tilting slightly on my BE which is also a tall mug machine like the Gem.

Descaling either may be a bit of a pain. The problem is usually draining the steam boiler to wash out the descaler. It can mean taking the cover off and pulling pipes of or spanners on some machines. The Piccino uses a small coffee machine filter that the makers reckon is ok for 100L of water. From it's description where it's sold in the uk that's downrated to 70. I'd assume that the Gem uses the same sort of thing. These will help. I don't think Fracino are alone in the descaling area. Lots seem to be the same.

What I found on my Piccino bearing in mind I only made drinks for me and not the family one after another was no need to worry about temp surfing as it's called. The boilers heat up in about 3 min , steam boiler so brew is probably quicker as it's insulated. After 15min the group head was hot as well. If I then flushed the machine through an empty basket, dried the basket and ground and added the coffee the shots were consistent. I'd guess that the flush made sure the brew heater was on and maybe had just turned off when I pulled the shot. I intended to try flushing through a pressurised basket to see if that would speed the whole process up as it very probably will.







Made a mistake though by buying a Gaggia one where the little hole is central so needs a bit of plastic in the portafiler to spread out the flow. Should have tried a Sage 58mm one as probably will fit and they offset the hole so the portafilter spreads it instead.

John

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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

If it is for home use go with the Piccino. I have had both in my time (I'm a Fracino distributor) and they both make super coffee but the Little Gem is a very large machine for home use!

If you can get the Piccino for 450 then it is a bargain.


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