# EK43 on it's way, what extra bits are needed?



## MarkyP

It looks like it's time for my K30 to make way for another grinder...

An EK43 should be with me soon. However, reading a lot of the threads owners are using various funnels or ground catchers or bean weighing things...

What's the recommended bits and bobs to accompany an EK43?


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## jeebsy

250ml cocktail shaker.

Something to dose into your pf. Cut down yoghurt pot will do.


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## MarkyP

jeebsy said:


> 250ml cocktail shaker.
> 
> Something to dose into your pf. Cut down yoghurt pot will do.


Do you use the cocktail shaker to catch the grounds from the grinder?


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## garydyke1

Best results i have found (taste and TDS) involve grinding directly into the basket through something like a funnel. If the inner diameter of the funnel matches the diameter of the basket happy days.


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## Geordie Boy

I just dose straight in using this (obviously removing the bottom part)

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/18901/2-in-1-Prep-Funnel

Not a perfect fit but about as good as they'll get


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## jeebsy

Tried various funnel combos and they were all too messy for me.


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## Geordie Boy

If you have a Porlex grinder, you can also use the bottom half in lieu of a cocktail shaker (though it is a tightish fit)


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## ronsil

It depends how you want to work.

Indeed a lot of people single dose & have various catchers when you hold the PF under the chute.

Have found it easier to clip on a stainless steel flask (bottom of a cheap cocktail shaker) & single shot grind into that. Sometimes good to spray with a food safe anti static spray but be sure to let it dry well for a couple of days.

I put the PF on a 'Bumper stand' & fit on a Kilner (jam making) Jar funnel or indeed an Aeropress funnel. Using the jam funnel I have attached (super glue)a 8.5mm group head gasket underneath to raise the funnel higher than the edge of the PF. Then after grinding into the flask I tip the grinds into the funnel, then tap & slowly raise it to keep the grinds in a nice fluffy mound. A little smoothing on top & then a light tamp.

I always weigh my circa 20 g shots into small 'shot pots' (from CallumT) in advance of my session. Then dose into the EK whilst running.

You'll never look back after you get going with the EK. Its great


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## Beanosaurus

Kitchen Craft sell a Pergfunnel

I actually bought an Orphan Espresso portafilter funnel a while back (now dented).

Note: I don't have an EK... At the moment.


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## ronsil

Here's a quick snap of the (my) bits:


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> Best results i have found (taste and TDS) involve grinding directly into the basket through something like a funnel. If the inner diameter of the funnel matches the diameter of the basket happy days.


Agree with Gary. Best results from dosing direct into portafilter. Jam funnels are good but get one that has a diameter closest to basket diameter. Check 'goes all the way to eleven' thread for Xpenno's contribution.

That said, funnels sit inside the basket (not ideal). Only dosing gadget that doesn't is the Coffee Catcha which sits on top - you can tamp through it. Expensive but beautifully made. Check Esspresso Underground - has the cheapest price while stocks last.


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## The Systemic Kid

ronsil said:


> Here's a quick snap of the (my) bits:


Can't see them anywhere, Ron.....which is probably a good thing


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## ronsil

Why was I waiting for that 'funny'?

It had to come from Patrick, who else?.


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## The Systemic Kid

My puerile sense of humour Ron


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## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Tried various funnel combos and they were all too messy for me.


Ill get a video up soon. Very little mess at all dude


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## Drewster

I thought the only essential was........... a pedestal.


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## The Systemic Kid

Only, for the vertically challenged, Daren - which is why I switched to the mini hopper


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## MarkyP

garydyke1 said:


> Ill get a video up soon. Very little mess at all dude


Gary, what gizmos do you use to keep the grounds from straying?


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## Terranova

I am using a volumetric dosing system on the EK 43 with different bushing sizes because of a phobia from using a scale.

By taste the EK only works for light roast and longer shots, but I think that's just a matter of taste.

With RDT you can reduce retention / static.


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## ronsil

Dosing straight into the PF even with a 'coffee catcher' seems to be wasteful & messy to me.

How do you hold the PF when you use the lever to clear the chute, which moves, each time?


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## garydyke1

Straight into basket. Through funnel which clips into basket


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## garydyke1

This is a particularly staticy coffee too.


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## garydyke1

Side view .


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## garydyke1

I then brush the fall out quickly into basket , do a couple of shakes , tap down once , remove funnel, then tamp .


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> I then brush the fall out quickly into basket , do a couple of shakes , tap down once , remove funnel, then tamp .


So you weigh your dose into the EK ...for arguments sake lets say 18g ?

Do you weight it at all post grind or accept that you will get X out from that dose , and that's ok ???

Does all the dose go in the funnel , or does some blow back or fly about a bit and stick to the rarest static surface ?


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> So you weigh your dose into the EK ...for arguments sake lets say 18g ?
> 
> Do you weight it at all post grind or accept that you will get X out from that dose , and that's ok ???
> 
> Does all the dose go in the funnel , or does some blow back or fly about a bit and stick to the rarest static surface ?


I've done enough tests to conclude 20g in 20g out +/1 0.2g. Shots are consistent . I can change grind to implement a planned increase or reduction of pour time by 2 seconds keeping all else even. having a muscle memory routine means I'm dialled in with this set up : )

No coffee escapes the funnel. The static visible on the plastic exit chute on the EK was from grinding 1 kilo of coffee at french press grind into a bag for a friend, I've not bothered to hoover it off yet


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## Geordie Boy

Looks like the same funnel as the Lakeland one I use, just a different colour (I assume it has a bottom part if you want it?). Very little escapes its clutches


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## Mrboots2u

Hi frank

dosing contraption looks good but expensive ...

phobia of scales ?

" light roasts only" suitability, as you say is a matter of taste , and not one that say Ronsil has found using darker roasts or myself with medium roasts .

I normally pull to a normale brew ratio (18g > 36-38g ) with single origins with very tasty result and high extraction yields

I wouldn't probably enjoy ristretto style shots with the coffee burrs but then again I get all the sweetness ( if not the associated mouthfeel ) from my espresso that I require , i drink way more espresso from light to medium roasts than I ever did with a conventional grinder . I still enjoy well made espresso from " other grinders" when I'm out and about ..I think I'll have a conical to use soon so will be interesting to see how my taste buds adapt to that at home .

essentially as always one man magic grinder is another mans pepper pot and vice versa

Also have you seen or used or tried to newer design coffee burrs that appeared in Gary d last ek43 for comparison ?


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## charris

I was also surprised by Frank's statement regarding lighter roasts.


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## garydyke1

I have noticed a few coffees tasting a tiny touch 'roasty' at home which otherwise don't so much at work on the non-EK stuff we use there.


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## Terranova

Mrboots2u said:


> dosing contraption looks good but expensive ...
> 
> phobia of scales ?
> 
> " light roasts only" suitability, as you say is a matter of taste , and not one that say Ronsil has found using darker roasts or myself with medium roasts .


It is a bit embarrasing when I am like a pharmacist wheigting the beans, instead of an easy going procedure when having visit. Again, just my personal opinion.

The dosing is not a big deal, neither the glasshopper is, but the lid can break the camels back.

And yes of course it is a matter of taste, the swap of mouthfeel in exchange for some sweetness is often not worth it, so I mostly use another grinder for darker and medium roast.



Mrboots2u said:


> Also have you seen or used or tried to newer design coffee burrs that appeared in Gary d last ek43 for comparison ?


I am using brand new coffee burrs from June 2014, still I am not a big fan of the EK.


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## Geordie Boy

Terranova said:


> And yes of course it is a matter of taste, the swap of mouthfeel in exchange for some sweetness is often not worth it, so I mostly use another grinder for darker and medium roast.


Must admit that for dark roasts I use a different grinder as well. As you say it's all personal taste


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## charris

Geordie Boy said:


> Must admit that for dark roasts I use a different grinder as well. As you say it's all personal taste


Which one? Robur?


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## garydyke1

Mouthfeel is easy to address. Use a chilled cup


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## Geordie Boy

charris said:


> Which one? Robur?


Close...HG one


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## slas111

Ive also just bought one and thinking of the extras I may need for single dosing?


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## Mrboots2u

slas111 said:


> Ive also just bought one and thinking of the extras I may need for single dosing?


An EK or hg1 or caedo

Hard to keep up....

An ek43 will not fit under cupboards btw


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## slas111

Ha I can't help myself !!

Financially I'm good so I can exsperment a bit

its going to go in the utility room

a bit of nuisance but I really want to try the ek43

Watch the FS section in a few weeks though lol


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## Mrboots2u

Coffee burrs ?

Seasoned already ?


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## 4085

you buying new Paul? if so, I think these take a canny whack to season. I know some have seasoned them incorrectly. I am sure I will be put right by those who know but you need to start off on a very coarse setting and slowly grind finer, although with the ek that is unlikely!


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## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> you buying new Paul? if so, I think these take a canny whack to season. I know some have seasoned them incorrectly. I am sure I will be put right by those who know but you need to start off on a very coarse setting and slowly grind finer, although with the ek that is unlikely!


If it's a spanker and the new model then you might be ok without seasoning. Yes it does get more consistent but is good out of the blocks. Old model took around 10kg to get right in the zone. All of the above is for coffee burrs BTW. Turks require much more of a kicking!


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## ronsil

My coffee burrs were good after approx 15 kilo. I bought old beans from all the roaster friends as well as my own.

I've never had a problem with grinding fine enough. I put on the Irish dial plate & never need to go finer than 1.8.

I think its generally accepted that's because of the mostly dark roast beans that I use.

Am going to try a guest slot of the new LSOL Beans & will be interesting to see what happens. Going to keep these Beans for the Chemex


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## MarkyP

I know I should be keeping up but... I've been trying to wade through the "goes all the way..." Thread!

New model?

What's that about?


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## Mrboots2u

MarkyP said:


> I know I should be keeping up but... I've been trying to wade through the "goes all the way..." Thread!
> 
> New model?
> 
> What's that about?


Not new

But Slightly different burr geometry or design I think

Only Gary has one of these currently


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Not new
> 
> But Slightly different burr geometry or design I think
> 
> Only Gary has one of these currently


Yep - different to original coffee burrs and not same as my Turkish burrs - sort of in between.


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## slas111

mine is brand new from coffeeitalia

hope its the newer model

how will I check?


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## MarkyP

The Systemic Kid said:


> Yep - different to original coffee burrs and not same as my Turkish burrs - sort of in between.


So allows you to go a bit finer for espresso whilst still allowing a coarser grind for pour over?


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## Mrboots2u

slas111 said:


> mine is brand new from coffeeitalia
> 
> hope its the newer model
> 
> how will I check?


That grinder isn't even listed on their site

It's A lot of money to spend on a grinder with coffeeitalia , fingers crossed it arrives ok

Did you read the thread on here re their service record ?


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## The Systemic Kid

MarkyP said:


> So allows you to go a bit finer for espresso whilst still allowing a coarser grind for pour over?


Yes, gives you more adjustment around zero setting.


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## The Systemic Kid

slas111 said:


> mine is brand new from coffeeitalia
> 
> hope its the newer model
> 
> how will I check?


Take the burrs out when you get it and post some pictures - I'll compare them to the original coffee and Turkish.


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## Xpenno

MarkyP said:


> So allows you to go a bit finer for espresso whilst still allowing a coarser grind for pour over?


It gives a more 'traditional' looking pour apparently and yes, there is the possibility to grind finer. After a bit of banter with Matt Perger (not directly about new burrs) these could have been changed for two reasons.

1. Better grind consistency at very low settings

2. People complaining that they could not grind fine enough with the current burrs

I know that Mr **** loves his though


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## MarkyP

I'll bear this in mind when I catch upgraditis again!


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## The Systemic Kid

MarkyP said:


> I'll bear this in mind when I catch upgraditis again!


tick, tock, tick, tock


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## MarkyP

The Systemic Kid said:


> tick, tock, tick, tock


Indeed!

I've only had it a few weeks and I'm looking beyond already...


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## slas111

Mrboots2u said:


> That grinder isn't even listed on their site
> 
> It's A lot of money to spend on a grinder with coffeeitalia , fingers crossed it arrives ok
> 
> Did you read the thread on here re their service record ?


http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/brands.php?man=27

reviews aren't too bad on truspilot

covered with my credit card


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## Mrboots2u

OK no probs I'm not trying scare monger sorry, im jusr aware that at times the feedback on here for CI has been inconsistent. I tend to trust the experiences of people on the forum .

If you are brave enough check the coffee italia thread in here


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## The Systemic Kid

True - but have you spoken to them about which burr set the grinder is fitted with - original coffee, coffee MKII or Turkish? Might be a good idea.


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## slas111

The Systemic Kid said:


> True - but have you spoken to them about which burr set the grinder is fitted with - original coffee, coffee MKII or Turkish? Might be a good idea.


Just spoken to the guy, very difficult to understand him, he said to email him the question and he will reply in 10 mins!!


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## 4085

Paul, if you have not pressed the button, stop and think. This will be return to base warranty. Have you considered just how much it might cost to do that? You might be better off paying a little more (since you can claim the vat back anyway) and staying in the UK mate


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## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> Paul, if you have not pressed the button, stop and think. This will be return to base warranty. Have you considered just how much it might cost to do that? You might be better off paying a little more (since you can claim the vat back anyway) and staying in the UK mate


Agreed, these things are heavy and would cost fortune if it went wrong. Yes the initial buy price is cheap but you might end up paying in the long run.


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## Mrboots2u

How many grinders can a non coffee business claim the vat back on in a year ?


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## slas111

Mrboots2u said:


> How many grinders can a non coffee business claim the vat back on in a year ?


True iv'e bought way too much this year on my card


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## 4085

if xpenno has not sold his, then thats an option...


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## Xpenno

dfk41 said:


> if xpenno has not sold his, then thats an option...


It is a possible option that I'm happy to discuss if interested









Sorry for the off-topicness x


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## garydyke1

whats the serial number ?


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## slas111

Got email back

its the latest edition direct from factory 3 week delivery


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## 4085

offer them a deposit to order....3 weeks sounds flexible to me!


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## slas111

dfk41 said:


> offer them a deposit to order....3 weeks sounds flexible to me!


I wish they already took my money

it says in stock but clearly not!!

don't mind the wait at least I'm guaranteed the newer model

I will decide once it comes if I will keep it along with my nino

as like you Dave I like conicals and my java jampit

so I'm not sure how it will perform with these beans!!

though i'm sure I can roast to suit the ek


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## Mrboots2u

Hopefully the 3 weeks is accurate ..

Gary do you know what the league time is on the currently ?


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## slas111

Reluctantly I've cancelled my order with them

as I'm feeling anxious about them holding my money for so long

and the fact I prefer the darker beans which I'm sure my Nino would be better for my tastes


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## Mrboots2u

Just as an aside , If you haven't already then use the advise that's on the forum ( from people who have or used one ) to help you choose .

1. Ron uses with dark roasts and get great results ( in manchester sure he accomodate you ) with an EK and a Vesuvius and he home roasts

2. I'm in Lancaster if you wanna try an EK out

3. Xpenno has one for sale ( im sure you could visit and see his if you wanted it ,again set up with a Vesuvius ) ..

For such an expensive purchase , a little research via a visit and a play wouldn't be a bad idea, you can taste and see if it suits your papalate, rather than being told it won't, by people who may or may not even have the grinder or used one or reading it won't suit a certain roast type .

I could give you an opinion on the EK and roast types ,wouldn't mean much though ,don't have the same palate as you .....

If you visited one of these guys You could probably even take some your jampit with you

After all that you have a clearer idea of if it's for you or not .....l


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## ronsil

Welcome to look at & try for yourself any time.

Just PM me


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## coffeechap

Why change the niño? You should be getting cracking shots from it, I know I am with mine.


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## 4085

Can I offer Slas £1200 in advance of his impending sale!


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## slas111

Thanks for your help

a friend of mine is buying one in a few days time

so I can get a play on it

im getting great shots with nino

i was most likely going to use the ek as a 2nd grinder as I don't really want to sell the nino

wife is giving me less hassle with it being in the kitchen

i know it's mad


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## jeebsy

Nino with an ek as backup grinder is madness....


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## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Nino with an ek as backup grinder is madness....


It makes perfect common sense, if you can afford it!


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## jeebsy

That's a lot of second hand cars


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## coffeechap

Not if those cars are bmws


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## charris

coffeechap said:


> Not if those cars are bmws


We really need a car thread...


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## slas111

dfk41 said:


> Can I offer Slas £1200 in advance of his impending sale!


Ha must say i'm having a chuckle at these comments

Iv'e always been the same, I just can't stop buying things I'm even worse with mobile phones I've had pretty much every high end phone in the last few years and change almost weekly

Dave your as bad as me in changing things!! I could end up doing a trade with you k10


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## 4085

Nah...lol. I love my k10 paul. It gives me the taste I want without the retention issues. I think you made the right decision, not to buy an EK until after you had tried one out. The taste profile the big conicals gives you is pretty much unique and as far as I know, the flat burr grinders just do not replicate it. When you link this to darker roasted beans it is just heaven!


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## slas111

Well I will try the EK43 soon and find out

but I cant see it getting the shots I'm getting with my nino which to my palate is perfect

Though the EK would be nice to have for some lighter roasts as a second grinder...Lol


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## charris

It seems the Nino is an exceptional conical. How does it compare to the Robur?


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## Mrboots2u

Think we need a set of grinder top trumps for charris......


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## charris

Mrboots2u said:


> Think we need a set of grinder top trumps for charris......


My big problem Martin is where I am based, and it is very difficult for me to test equipment or visit somebody that can help me on this. So I have to rely on the info from you guys which (thank god) it is extremely good and accurate.


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## Mrboots2u

charris said:


> My big problem Martin is where I am based, and it is very difficult for me to test equipment or visit somebody that can help me on this. So I have to rely on the info from you guys which (thank god) it is extremely good and accurate.


Yeah I know charris , in the end it's all opinion and as such is very subjective as we all have different palates and tastes.

Just make sure you get info based on experience and use , not on supposition and hearsay









I might start grinder top trumps though could be fun


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## Orangertange

Seriously boots I think a set of coffee forum grider trump cards Is a great idea, been looking for a decent template on line but think have to make my own to be any use,


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## Mrboots2u

Orangertange said:


> Seriously boots I think a set of coffee forum grider trump cards Is a great idea, been looking for a decent template on line but think have to make my own to be any use,


Let's discuss this ....pm me


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## Geordie Boy

slas111 said:


> Well I will try the EK43 soon and find out
> 
> but I cant see it getting the shots I'm getting with my nino which to my palate is perfect
> 
> Though the EK would be nice to have for some lighter roasts as a second grinder...Lol


You're definitely doing the right thing to try one out. I find the HG-one more to my taste for dark roasts. For lighter roasts i like the EK best. It's all personal though so the best thing to do is to find out for yourself


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## coffeechap

Orangertange said:


> Seriously boots I think a set of coffee forum grider trump cards Is a great idea, been looking for a decent template on line but think have to make my own to be any use,


Game on


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## charris

Agreed great idea. Let's just open a new thread and discuss what the review/specs columns would be and let's do a spreadsheet with the grinders in rows. Maybe we can also do a poll with the 10 high-end grinders or so and allow only people that own at least one of those to choose their favorite (wondering what the would vote







) .


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## slas111

well coffee italia is causing problems they took £1632 they have only refunded me £1536

they say they refunded the full amount minus the card fees?

any ideas what I can do?


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## slas111

this his is response

The fees are the bank fees of the transaction.

Every credit/Debit card payment in the world have transactions fees.

Regards

MATTEO


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## Dylan

What did you use to pay?


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## Mrboots2u

slas111 said:


> well coffee italia is causing problems they took £1632 they have only refunded me £1536
> 
> they say they refunded the full amount minus the card fees?
> 
> any ideas what I can do?


He is correct although that seems a lot

But most companies don't keep hold of them if they have to refund you


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## slas111

used credit card


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## Dylan

From their T&C's

"You have 12 hour from the time that you place the order to cancel it. If you wish to cancel the order after 24 hours have passed, we will refund the cost of the product in full minus the 3 % bank transaction fee and the shippinc cost if the product has already been shipped."

Which is £1583, incidentally.


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## Dylan

I have been trying to find some concrete info on transaction fees, but the DSR nor the now in force CCR [Consumer Contracts Regulations] mention it at all.

It would be worth asking Coffee Italia where in the CCR it gives them the right to withhold this fee, and also making a post on moneysavingexpert forum to be sure of your 'rights'.

Am I right to say it claimed to be in stock when you ordered it, and it turned out it was not? If this is the case they should almost certainly have to fully refund you, but again a post on MSE would confirm this.


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## slas111

yes but they say it's in stock on there sight and if it was I would have kept the order

then they say it's 3 weeks delivery from factory

so I cancel and get this charge!!

I'll see what my cc company say tomorrow


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## Dylan

I just edited my last post referring to exactly that, it certainly doesn't seem fair, I would definitely challenge it.


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## The Systemic Kid

I doubt very much Cafe Italia keep EKs in stock.


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## 4085

Paul, if you use your credit card for a foreign transaction, your bank will charge you a fee, separately and usually around £35. It might cost them something to reverse the transaction though I doubt it. I would ring your credit card company. they can do all sorts of strange thing, but basically, as D_Evans has pointed out, their terms state 3% so you are probably wasting your time arguing with them. I would put my faith in your card company


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## Dylan

dfk41 said:


> Paul, if you use your credit card for a foreign transaction, your bank will charge you a fee


Are they foreign? Everything on their site suggests they are Uk/London based.

Edit: "UK representative office" suggests they are not... is the fee sent to their foreign business?


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## Geordie Boy

Could also be worth contacting your local trading standards office just to ask what they think?


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## slas111

ok thanks for the advice all

I will have to wait until tomorrow now


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## jeebsy

Did you cancel within the cooling off period?


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## Dylan

jeebsy said:


> Did you cancel within the cooling off period?


Cooling off begins after the receipt of the goods, so I think he might have just squeezed it in


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## jeebsy

Starts on 'conclusion of contract'.

See if you've got legal expenses with your home insurance. They usually have an advice line you can phone.


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## Dylan

jeebsy said:


> Starts on 'conclusion of contract'.
> 
> See if you've got legal expenses with your home insurance. They usually have an advice line you can phone.


"Subject to the exceptions described above, consumers have the unconditional right to cancel by giving you written notice within 7 days of the day after receipt of the goods or within 7 days of the day after they agree to proceed with a service contract."

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=BADV0021.txt

Although, as per my earlier post, this may not apply at all as the DSR no longer applies, and has been replaced by the CCR


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## slas111

Ok thanks all

I've contacted my NatWest credit card company who are a waist of time,

I was on the phone for 1 hr. had to then speak to a manager who was also useless

they say because coffee Italia didn't say how much he was going to refund you there is nothing they can do!!

I kept explaining that I requested a refund which was less than 24hrs of receipt of order and that coffee Italia said they will issue a refund, I added that to me a refund is the price I paid and why would I think different and to ask them specifically to sate the price I wanted refunded.

I was at this time getting highly stressed and nasty to the manager and asked for a reference so I can put a complaint in writing I also threatened to close my account

he then said he will not promise anything but to send him all me emails and he has done a chargeback

I've also emailed citizens advice.


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## The Systemic Kid

Nightmare.


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## jeebsy

If you're not successful give me a shout. I work in financial services complaint handling and could throw a few tips. Got £400 out of Lloyds recently because they lost a change of address letter.


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## Tryfan

If not already mentioned, the 'Consumer Contracts Regulations' should help you here. They came into effect June this year and replace the Distance Selling Regulations.

Which's website have a decent summary.

To pick out a couple of key points:



> *Your right to cancel an order*
> 
> The Distance Selling Regulations state that your right to cancel an order starts the moment you place your order and doesn't end until seven working days from the day after you receive your goods.
> 
> This is the minimum consumers must be given and many sellers choose to exceed this, so always check the terms and conditions in case you have longer to return your items.
> 
> As this seven-day working period is the time you have to decide whether to cancel, by law the seller can't say that you must have returned the goods within this time frame.
> 
> Confirmation of your cancellation should be sent by email, letter or fax.


And:



> *What should you get back?*
> 
> The original cost of the outbound postage to you should always be refunded by the seller.
> 
> The seller's terms and conditions or returns policy should state who pays the cost of returning the item.
> 
> If they don't state this, then the seller has to cover the cost.
> 
> In this case, you're entitled to a refund of the total amount you paid, including costs to ship the item to you, and the fee to return the item. *No admin or restocking fees should be charged. *


Best of luck with this.


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## slas111

What a great forum

Realy appreciate all your help on this nightmare company

I was warned about this company so a harsh lesson learnt


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