# Sage Barista Pro - Mini Review



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

I thought I would try and help some people out as there have been a fair few should I get this or that posts on here. Plus there has been a few bits here and there about barista pro and temp etc.

So here is a mini review of my first 2 weeks with the BP.

*Context -*

Coffee drinker for a long while, progression from instant to FP to a gaggia classic about 10 years ago. Crappy grinder, then awesome ex shop grinder. Naked portafilters and tinkering. I have never owned a dual boiler or what would be termed a top end machine.

Oh and I have roasted my own beans for 4 years now and I'd say I'm pretty good at it based on my comparisons with other roasters coffee (which apart from one roaster I shall not name I have been largely disappointed with).

I know what I like, actually I THOUGHT I knew what I liked, until recently where I have started to experiment.

Until recently I had a sage DTP a far superior machine to the gaggia classic, in terms of heat stability etc. but I always suspected it under-heated. This was confirmed with heat measurements, but I also found anything lighter was just sour.

Hence the change to the BP. I wanted more heat flexibility, I also wanted to vary pre-infusion and I wanted a more powerful steam wand (turned out to be a bit of a curse).

*The review *

No unboxing bull, it was set up and ran through a few times.

*Heat stability *

Lots of reports of low heat in the cup from the BP. I think this is a flow issue. I *think* they have calibrated the thermojet for quite a high resistance to flow, maybe thats why they recommend 19-22g, which is a lot of coffee. I don't think you need this, but you are probably going to need upwards of 18 and a finish grind at that. This is going to require setting the grinder right AND fresh coffee. NO STALE BEANS.

Either way with the double wall filter and normal temp engaged the consistency was remarkable. After 2 warming shots it was 92 92 92 measured out of the bottom of the PF. Put the temp up to the top setting and it hits 95 perfect! 
This should roughly equal 93 hitting the coffee at normal temp, 96 at high temp and 90 for the low temp.
THIS ELEMENT IS CRITICAL!

*Testing a range of beans *

I roasted a range of beans, Light, light medium, medium, medium dark and dark. 
I found the ability to change temp was an absolute game changer. The light roast was unpalatable at 93 but sang at 96. The dark was far to bitter at 96 but was chocolate heaven at 90.

*Grinder*

I have not tested the in built grinder for the light roast yet. But it performed admirably for the medium and dark roasts. A little clumping in comparison to my la pavoni (64mm flat burrs), which I didn't mind as I grind into a pot and then weigh and decant, so I have time to bash it around and de-clump.

The taste in the cup was no detectable difference.

I am going to use the in built grinder for my morning medium dark roast and the la pavoni for the lighter flat white roast. But I think with proper settings the in built could easily do the job.

*Milk foaming. *

The wand is way more powerful than the DTP. A good and bad thing. I've found it's tough to steam my macchiato milk, 50ml, or even up to 150, but steams beautifully at around 200ml. Just skill I guess.

*Conclusion*

This is a great machine, from my limited experience. It gives you a few extra features over the DTP, maybe not enough over the BE to be worth an upgrade, depending on how good you think the grinder in the BE is. 
It can make a stunning cup of coffee if you set it up right!

Any questions about it please ask!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Just a couple of comments.

The grinder is effectively an SGP as per an Oracle. Same basic parts but a restricted range. The BE grinder lacks the same adjustment mechanism. I'd assume setting the grind timer is also a lot easier than the BE. I did use the BE like that a lot but always the same bean and no cleaning. Weights out have to be checked. I found adjustments weren't needed that often eventually. I also got pretty fluffy grinds.  I'm a bit bemused about that having recently used the grinder again. It may need more beans to settle down - pass at the moment.

Sounds like the thermojet may get round the initial cold flow when brewing on the ordinary BE. Not sure from mention of warming shots. Tasting 3 americano made on the trot shots first is a certain method of picking that up. Preheating the thermocoil on a BE is easy to do. An option for milk drinkers would be to steam first. Or a bit of steam before a shot for others. I prefer a shot though an empty dual wall as that gets the portafilter hot. Experience on a DB suggest that may not matter. I was convinced it was so did the same for a while. Saves 10min or so needed to heat the portafilter. I don't think it would ever really gain much heat on their other machines. Theory says it should be at circa 80C.

They did state that the double for the BE holds 15 to 18g. Not mentioned in the latest manual on the web. I'd say the 15 is rather light and may result in a wet puck especially with rather fine grinding. My recollection is that I often used 17g maybe a bit more. Most of my own drinks were made with the single.

Some people might like to know what the hot water outlet temperature is. I suspect temperature complaints often relate to cold mugs that take up too much heat. That's what caused the problem in my case anyway. Like many I previously made coffee with water from kettle end result probably 90C or there abouts. I prefer a bit too hot to drink initially and different drinking vessels sorted that out.

Makes a change to hear from some one who has used espresso machines for some time.

Cost wise they haven't added a touch screen.  When I see that and no buttons I see it as a possible cost saving / not much in it. Dropping the gauge will have saved a bit but probably not much as far as a manufacturer is concerned.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

The grinder performance I have been pleased with, as it seems to provide a grind with consistency. Although it does clump up a bit at the lower end of the range, in comparison to my la pavoni which doesn't at all.
That said I am not sure if my palate is complex enough to tell any difference! 
I am certainly getting a beautiful tiger striped cone from the bottomless PF so the grind must be pretty even to achieve this without any channelling. As I said the static clumping doesn't bother me as I grind into a cup to weigh anyway.

The thermojet is different to the DTP, it only comes on when needed, but 2 quick shots ran through it heat the group and the PF just fine. 
As I use a naked PF it helps as I only need to get the basket hot, which is going to cool a bit anyway as I am loading the coffee.

Dose wise the recommendation is a fairly high 19-22. Which most have said doesn't easily fit in the basket. But you have to grind finer, not sure if the pressure is higher or just the thermojet, but I am finding that I have to grind very fine AND dose 19-20g to not have the pull start during manual pre-infusion (60% pump pressure). It must be different to the DTP as with the same basket (taken from the DTP) the DTP would often choke at finer grinds and over 19g.

The taste results at 19ish grams are excellent. Best coffee/espresso I've ever made/had.
The taste as 18 is often underwhelming, even with a grind to compensated. 
Maybe its a function of how things are going on in terms of extraction.

I get that one drawback to the sage is 54mm. But I see plenty of people pull fantastic shots on a 51mm La Pavoni, so, given you can get a good volume in there I don't see it makes much difference. Bigger isn't always better.

Finally, the water temp from the hot water tap. 
One of my biggest and I mean flipping huge bug bears of the DTP was the hot water function was too hot! way way way too hot. It was boiling, I measured it at 98-99deg! I used to have to add cold water to not burn the coffee!

The water out of the BP is perfect drinking temp. So don't fill you cup expecting to leave it a while. Its around 72C, which when in the cup gives a nice 65.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Interesting and useful review Tom, thanks for sharing.

I'd love to find out if the bambino group is identical to the BP. I too am doing 2 warming shots and finding excellent consistency. I wasn't able to measure temp like you - very interested to see how you've done that when we meet

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It's unlikely to be any different kenny (  assuming that's your name ) Sage and many others don't make new bits unless there is a need.

Personally if I had one I would use steam to preheat especially if using a bottomless portafilter, the dual wall would probably make a mess. I doubt if there is any need to actually get steam so just to the point where it's about to come which will be pretty quick on these. Flush before doing this. This should give a consistent start and a bit of a delay before the machine will allow a shot to be pulled.

On the DB when I tried not preheating the portafilter it was the standard one. No plastic insert in that so the dual wall made an odd noise. Shot would be cooler but say 40ml shot made up to a 300ml - didn't matter as mine come out at about 85C.  I wouldn't have been a happy bunny if I drank espresso.

I wouldn't be a happy bunny if I saw tiger stripes in the flow. It's not a problem I have had - not to a noticeable extent anyway. I'm not happy about seeing them on the base of the basket but it seems to be tricky to avoid that completely. Thanks for reminding me. I can start looking at that again so see if changes make any differences.

John

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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

@TomHughes where's the action pics? ?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

ajohn said:


> It's unlikely to be any different kenny (  assuming that's your name ) Sage and many others don't make new bits unless there is a need.
> 
> Personally if I had one I would use steam to preheat especially if using a bottomless portafilter, the dual wall would probably make a mess. I doubt if there is any need to actually get steam so just to the point where it's about to come which will be pretty quick on these. Flush before doing this. This should give a consistent start and a bit of a delay before the machine will allow a shot to be pulled.
> 
> ...


 Eh? why wouldn't you want to see beautiful tiger striping in the cone?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

matted said:


> @TomHughes where's the action pics? ?


 Haha. I'm not a visual person so rarely do pics! Anything you were after?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> Eh? why wouldn't you want to see beautiful tiger striping in the cone?


 'cause if there was none it would mean all of the grinds would extracted evenly.  if that would improve taste pass but not keen seeing them visually in the main stream.






It's pretty easy to see what's going on in that. Infusion time set to where I have found it best to be so far. Ends when the base of the basket is pretty wet and no flow. Actually that is how the DB comes as standard - 6secs. I did have it set to 10 as per my BE but that was more inclined to generate slight separate flows and I didn't look at the above aspect. At 6secs things are more inclined to start with 1 flow or 2 quickly going to 1. I wonder about my 2 slope leveller and flows as when I tried a 3 wing I had lots and lots of 3's going to 1 - they have a different action which probably explains that. With the 2 wing I set to on achieve a very light tamp that helps keep my main tamp square.

LOL This all comes from deciding not to weigh shots out. I didn't realise how much the BE was helping with that until I started using time on the DB. All sorts of things make a difference especially what has been done to the grinds.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

> 1 hour ago, ajohn said:
> 
> 'cause if there was none it would mean all of the grinds would extracted evenly.  if that would improve taste pass but not keen seeing them visually in the main stream.


 John I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to show me there really. Obviously that shot isn't good but there are plenty of problems with it not just striping.

You are always going to get some level of striping as the grind is never going to extract perfectly and within the grind there is always going to be some variation. Unless the grind was sent through an elaborate sieve system.

Do you have an example of a shot with no striping that demonstrates the even extraction you describe?


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

On a slightly separate note the 53mm Motta levelling tool is back in stock at Bella Barista.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-coffee-leveling-tool.html

@TomHughes I know you were looking for one.

Do you think this will work well when dosing 19-20g in the basket for the Pro? (same portafilter and basket as BE).


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

HVL87 said:


> On a slightly separate note the 53mm Motta levelling tool is back in stock at Bella Barista.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-coffee-leveling-tool.html
> 
> ...


 I don't know, anyone how much you can reduce it by? To be honest I've tried moving back towards 18-19. Almost every one of my roasts is happy at 19 if I get the grind right


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

TomHughes said:


> I don't know, anyone how much you can reduce it by? To be honest I've tried moving back towards 18-19. Almost every one of my roasts is happy at 19 if I get the grind right


 Apparently 'Height: 25mm - 33mm (inc top)'. I've ordered one - hopefully doesn't become and expensive paper weight!

Out of curiosity did you have to adjust the upper burr on the Pro? Also what grind setting/s do you typically use?

Cheers.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

HVL87 said:


> Apparently 'Height: 25mm - 33mm (inc top)'. I've ordered one - hopefully doesn't become and expensive paper weight!
> 
> Out of curiosity did you have to adjust the upper burr on the Pro? Also what grind setting/s do you typically use?
> 
> Cheers.


 No I haven't needed to yet. The medium/dark roasts I've used it with have been setting 4-7. 
I provably won't bother to use it with a lighter roast (which I suspect would need the burr adjusting) as I have a la pavoni with much larger flat burrs for that job


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## Pseudonym (Aug 31, 2016)

Just picked up the BP to use at our holiday home. Cheers for the tip on the Temp. Been trailing the machine for a week & felt the extraction to be lacking. Will bump the temp up & see how she fairs this evening.

Also - 54mm Naked PF? @TomHughes... Where? I need.

Many thanks.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Pseudonym said:


> Also - 54mm Naked PF? @TomHughes... Where? I need.


 I would also like one if you know where to get them..


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Pseudonym said:


> Just picked up the BP to use at our holiday home. Cheers for the tip on the Temp. Been trailing the machine for a week & felt the extraction to be lacking. Will bump the temp up & see how she fairs this evening.
> 
> Also - 54mm Naked PF? @TomHughes... Where? I need.
> 
> Many thanks.


 It was DIY. 
Just took the bottom off using a diamond angle grinder disc.


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## Bezzy (Dec 28, 2019)

Neglected my pro and need to get a first clean in...

anyone recommend what cleaning products I need?


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## Bezzy (Dec 28, 2019)

Neglected my pro and need to get a first clean in...

anyone recommend what cleaning products I need?


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## ausarahoranges (Mar 11, 2020)

Bezzy said:


> Neglected my pro and need to get a first clean in...
> 
> anyone recommend what cleaning products I need?


 I like urnex products the most


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