# Coffee shop sign!



## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Apparently causing a fuss on t'internet...

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-buzz/coffee-shop-scolds-sugar-users--demands-they-sample--natural-sweetness-of-coffee--first-193953649.html


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

when me and wifey stop for coffee somewhere i always get her to try it without sugar first, i dont take sugar, she does.

She tries bless, but always adds it, you can even see the barista glare at her!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

And they offer what looks to be bog standard white granulated sugar? Presumably as another way to deter people from putting sugar in?

Surely this would only apply to people drinking espresso and americano anyway? Adding milk is going to change the flavour far more than adding sugar I would have thought?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

It's a fair enough sentiment and message, it's just very poorly and ingraciously put to the point of being utterly counter productive


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

CamV6 said:


> It's a fair enough sentiment and message, it's just very poorly and ingraciously put to the point of being utterly counter productive


i like it


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Since when did coffee have any taste worth tasting?

Doesn't everyone need 5 sugars and a pint of milk?


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## Doozerless (Apr 3, 2015)

The Barn have something similar with milk.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> Since when did coffee have any taste worth tasting?
> 
> Doesn't everyone need 5 sugars and a pint of milk?


Are your shots that bad


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

My local barista had a sign just slightly subtler that said 'we'd love you to try our coffee as served before adding sugar' or something very similar!

& the look of despair on his face when someone sticks their head through the door and shouts 'what syrups do you do?'....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Oh dear.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Are your shots that bad


Shots?

I was chewing it.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Perhaps open up the grind a tad??


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> Shots?
> 
> I was chewing it.


You is hardcore!!


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> You is hardcore!!


Maybe try it like this...

[video=youtube;ri6Y-cXACqM]


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

''Although 'natural sweetness' for coffee is cutting it mighty fine. Like. It's not sweet. Least. No coffee I've ever tasted has been sweet black.''

Some people have never had good coffee


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Doozerless said:


> The Barn have something similar with milk.


They also caused a stir by banning buggies from their cafe.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Bold St in Liverpool took all sugar out of their store one week. Takings went down by 50%. Sugar was returned 

Takk in Manchester has syrups, but they are hidden below the bar. Its like a Prohibition speak easy.

I used to take sugar or syrups in my coffee, but that was at Starbucks. Once I found decent real coffee, I found that there was no bitter or burned taste to mask with sugar. Ultimately its up to the customer.

It can be frustrating when my mother-in-law (to be) dumps three sugars into the cappa I have lovingly crafted for her. Maybe in the future her tastes will evolve. Until then, no point getting stressed about it.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

ridland said:


> I used to take sugar
> 
> It can be frustrating when my mother-in-law (to be) dumps three sugars into the cappa I have lovingly crafted for her. Maybe in the future her tastes will evolve. Until then, no point getting stressed about it.


You can always get a better mother in law as an option too.


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## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

Be happy with such a Woman, love here like your Wife, give here all the sweets she wants and think, this is always better than an unhappy sour face!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I would just put a sign saying

''Sugar = rots teeth

= hello diabetes

= poison for the body

= promotes soil exhaustion and deforestation.

Feel free to help yourself ''


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> I would just put a sign saying
> 
> ''Sugar = rots teeth
> 
> ...


Somehow that makes you sound like an eco-hipster.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyle548 said:


> Somehow that makes you sound like an eco-hipster.


A realist.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

mrsimba said:


> the look of despair on his face when someone sticks their head through the door and shouts 'what syrups do you do?'....


I recall the look of confusion on a customer's face in a friend of mine's coffee shop when a customer was told they 'didn't do syrups'. On my most recent visit I noticed syrups had appeared.

'The customer is always right!'


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

We get asked all the time if we have syrups, (we don't have any) most customers are very happy without them - even if they initially came in for a caramel latte.

I don't think the sign is pretentious at all. Why the hell not ask customers to try how it is made first? What's the harm? Why must customers be offended by this?

As a barista, I literally couldn't care less if you'd like sugar. It would be nice if you'd try it first without though.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Taylor The Latte Boy said:


> As a barista, I literally couldn't care less if you'd like sugar. It would be nice if you'd try it first without though.


Bets way to be, I agree that customers really should not be offended by a barista trying to get them to shy away from the sugar, but at the end of the day the customer pays for what they want and have it how they like


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

To be fair when I lived in bath maxwell cololona-Dashwood asked me not to out sugar in my flat white as the milk should be sweet enough to lift the drink. I refrained from adding sugar And that was the start of my journey into coffee snobbery!


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

I would hate for someone to automatically put sugar in and then dislike the drink because they have ruined it and blame the barista!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

risky said:


> I recall the look of confusion on a customer's face in a friend of mine's coffee shop when a customer was told they 'didn't do syrups'. On my most recent visit I noticed syrups had appeared.
> 
> 'The customer is always right!'


Not when it comes to syrups (unless they don't want them)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Had to compromise my integrity yesterday when someone asked for a 12oz cappuccino, wasn't pleased


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Had to compromise my integrity yesterday when someone asked for a 12oz cappuccino, wasn't pleased


do you have a cup that big ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Got 10 and 12oz for iced lattes


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Had to compromise my integrity yesterday when someone asked for a 12oz cappuccino, wasn't pleased


Should've have pulled 2 doubles in to it and charged twice as much.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The customer isn't always right, far from it. A lot of them are clowns


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Had to compromise my integrity yesterday when someone asked for a 12oz cappuccino, wasn't pleased


Was it my mum by any chance? She loves a soup bowl of cappuccino.

Regarding my 'the customer is always right' quip, hopefully the sarcasm was obvious.

However, do you have to draw the line somewhere between what you think is right and what the customers are asking for? (I.e. The shop that removed sugar and had to bring it back, or my mates shop that started stocking syrups because of demand). I applaud shops that stand up for their views but is it a sustainable business model?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

risky said:


> Was it my mum by any chance? She loves a soup bowl of cappuccino.
> 
> Regarding my 'the customer is always right' quip, hopefully the sarcasm was obvious.
> 
> However, do you have to draw the line somewhere between what you think is right and what the customers are asking for? (I.e. The shop that removed sugar and had to bring it back, or my mates shop that started stocking syrups because of demand). I applaud shops that stand up for their views but is it a sustainable business model?


Haha, the first guy got one, then the guy after that said he wanted what the last person had but thankfully that was the end of the bucket drinks.

I'd go with the serve what I think is right model. No point in using amazing single origin beans and taking the time and effort to make a great shot if it's just going to be adulterated with syrup and shit. Those customers can go somewhere else.

So far decaf has been the most requested thing i've not had. No requests for syrups yet, and they won't be entertained no matter how numerous they might become.


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## benanderson18 (Oct 23, 2014)

Each to their own i say. If you like sugar in your coffee then add it. If you like syrup then add it. Do what makes you happy. If you have sugar and syrup in your shop you're only going to increase your business intake and get more customers.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

benanderson18 said:


> Each to their own i say. If you like sugar in your coffee then add it. If you like syrup then add it. Do what makes you happy. If you have sugar and syrup in your shop you're only going to increase your business intake and get more customers.


Clown customers


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)




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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Clown customers


Its a nightmare getting clown car parking- bits of car everywhere and they are annoying to serve - buckets of confetti everywhere. ...smell my flower, oh look its squirting water....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Not to mention the shoes, most of them can't get close enough to the counter to pick up their drinks


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah but they always leave with great big smiles!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> So far decaf has been the most requested thing i've not had. No requests for syrups yet, and they won't be entertained no matter how numerous they might become.


Are you looking into decaf?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Could do decaf on the EK in theory, but would be hesitant in case the customer couldn't drink caffeine for medical reasons and a bit of caffeinated coffee found its way into the PF. Getting asked for it maybe 2-4 times each market so not sure it would be worth it.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Yeah fair enough, I suppose you could have some weighed up and a massive disclaimer on the cup  but potentially easier to just give that a miss then.


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Some people are always gonna dump sugar in the coffee regardless. My Dad puts 3 in instant and 4 or 5 in mine same as he saturates any meal with salt before tasting it. No point arguing really - if they enjoy it then fine.


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

Wouldn't worry about caffeine from traces, there will be more caffeine than that in decaf beans anyway, not as if it's a peanut allergy...

Sugar in coffee? Let them put cheese sauce in if they've paid! To my way of thinking, the only time you discourage a paying customer, is if they are actively driving away, or preventing you from serving your preferred demographic.... Just my 2 penn'orth mind.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Could do decaf on the EK in theory, but would be hesitant in case the customer couldn't drink caffeine for medical reasons and a bit of caffeinated coffee found its way into the PF. Getting asked for it maybe 2-4 times each market so not sure it would be worth it.


A friend of mine can't drink anything with caffeine in it and he is incredibly sensitive. He can't drink decaf either as it had the same effect, there's still enough in it, I wouldn't worry about the traces in the grinder.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I had a minor win yesterday in the no sugar vein (original post not decaf post). My dad hadn't drunk coffee for several years (which is before I got into the decent stuff). I checked if he was still off it and discovered he thought he couldn't drink it without sugar (just for taste reasons), so I offered a chemex which he happily drank without milk or sugar. Same today with a behmor brewed with the Foundry Yirg (my first experience of it as well).


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> I had a minor win yesterday in the no sugar vein (original post not decaf post). My dad hadn't drunk coffee for several years (which is before I got into the decent stuff). I checked if he was still off it and discovered he thought he couldn't drink it without sugar (just for taste reasons), so I offered a chemex which he happily drank without milk or sugar. Same today with a behmor brewed with the Foundry Yirg (my first experience of it as well).


Chemex was what got me off the sugar. That and fresh ground, decent beans. I suppose I just used sugar to try and mask the flavour of terrible coffee!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

People who have sugars in their tea obviously cant appreciate tea.

People who prefer milk chocolate to dark chocolate obviously cant appreciate real chocolate.

People who add salt to their food obviously cant appreciate the food the way the chef intended it.

People who put sugar in their coffee obviously cant appreciate the real flavor of coffee.

etc etc.

Want to be a snob about sugar in coffee, fine, just accept your own snobbery. Peoples tastes differ, some people prefer the taste of a sweeter drink, myself included, and I always try the coffee before I put a sugar in, and I put a sugar in every time, the size just varies.

All that aside, the vast majority of these snobbish coffee shops should recognise that their own product varies hugely from shot to shot, nearly every coffee shop I have been to more than once has served me a coffee that tasted different each time. I dont blame them for this as I know how difficult it is to get consistency anywhere near 100%, but I reserve the right to tailor my sugar addition to the result of their coffee making.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sugar fine, syrups feck off


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dylan said:


> Want to be a snob about sugar in coffee, fine, just accept your own snobbery. Peoples tastes differ, some people prefer the taste of a sweeter drink, myself included, and I always try the coffee before I put a sugar in, and I put a sugar in every time, the size just varies.


I don't think that drinking coffee without sugar is snobbery, if I was served a cup of coffee that wasn't sweet & expected to drink it, I'd add some sugar, maybe even honey...but one of the reasons I like coffee is that it is sweet without adding sugar/syrup/honey/sweetener. Sometimes, it's not sweet from the off, maybe just when you get into it or at the end? Occasionally, it's too sweet for me. I used to have a very sweet tooth, I guess my palate must have dried a bit with age & not adding sugar typically, but still in context with other foods, I find coffee sweet.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> I don't think that drinking coffee without sugar is snobbery, if I was served a cup of coffee that wasn't sweet & expected to drink it, I'd add some sugar, maybe even honey...but one of the reasons I like coffee is that it is sweet without adding sugar/syrup/honey/sweetener. Sometimes, it's not sweet from the off, maybe just when you get into it or at the end? Occasionally, it's too sweet for me. I used to have a very sweet tooth, I guess my palate must have dried a bit with age & not adding sugar typically, but still in context with other foods, I find coffee sweet.


Not adding sugar is not snobbery, I dont think I implied that. Telling others they should not add sugar, because you perceive the drink as sweet is.

I do not find coffee sweet, at all, and I have tried a lot of different coffees from a lot of different very well respected shops. A long black has never been my drink of choice and I have never really enjoyed one, so I cant comment directly on that, but the above applies to espresso's and flat whites. Milk brings in an edge of sweetness for me, but it is rarely, if ever, sweet enough for my tastes.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dylan said:


> I do not find coffee sweet, at all, and I have tried a lot of different coffees from a lot of different very well respected shops. A long black has never been my drink of choice and I have never really enjoyed one, so I cant comment directly on that, but the above applies to espresso's and flat whites. Milk brings in an edge of sweetness for me, but it is rarely, if ever, sweet enough for my tastes.


The sign that kicked this thread of is perhaps a bit militant & badly worded, but I don't have a problem with suggesting people try a coffee without, before adding sweetener...I'm happy to give guests as much sugar as they want, happy for them to ignore the suggestion too, they're supposed to enjoy the drink afterall. But if bitter coffee, lacking any sweetness is all they have ever had & they continue to add sugar/sweetener out of habit, before tasting, how can they evaluate whether it is in fact needed? How many people are really not eating enough sugar?

The length of the coffee drink isn't an issue, espresso & Turkish can be intensely sweet.

I guess the "sweetness" of coffee could try to be put into context? Do you find any foods that aren't enhanced with sugar sweet? Say natural fruit, fruit juice? Sweet white wine? Chocolate: how would you rate say Galaxy, Bourneville, 80% dark?

If you say, "don't add sugar" because you simply 'perceive' the coffee is sweet, wouldn't the sugar only help if the person concerned also 'perceived' that was sweet too? If it's a question of perception, it either works for both, or not?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> The sign that kicked this thread of is perhaps a bit militant & badly worded, but I don't have a problem with suggesting people try a coffee without, before adding sweetener...I'm happy to give guests as much sugar as they want, happy for them to ignore the suggestion too, they're supposed to enjoy the drink afterall. But if bitter coffee, lacking any sweetness is all they have ever had & they continue to add sugar/sweetener out of habit, before tasting, how can they evaluate whether it is in fact needed? How many people are really not eating enough sugar?
> 
> The length of the coffee drink isn't an issue, espresso & Turkish can be intensely sweet.
> 
> ...


Fruit is sweet when in season, out of season strawberries/melons/peaches can be completely flavorless or even sour, white wine I dislike cant say I have ever noticed sweetness, I can in red wine however. Galaxy is sweet, bornville not very sweet 80% dark bitter and unpleasant.

Flavor is all about perception. If a can of sprite is more yellow people think it tastes more of lemons (in reference to sprite marketing research from back in the day)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

There's a reason you should only eat fruit and veg that's in season


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It gives a clue as to when it might be ready to eat


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dylan said:


> Fruit is sweet when in season, out of season strawberries/melons/peaches can be completely flavorless or even sour, white wine I dislike cant say I have ever noticed sweetness, I can in red wine however. Galaxy is sweet, bornville not very sweet 80% dark bitter and unpleasant.
> 
> Flavor is all about perception. If a can of sprite is more yellow people think it tastes more of lemons (in reference to sprite marketing research from back in the day)


Perception comes into it, but it's also about what chemicals & compounds the food contains. Try drinking your coffee from a yellow cup, or a red one to make it taste like strawberries? 

Frequently I find coffee on par with ripe fruit, sometimes more towards the jammy end? Agree on the chocolate mostly...Galaxy is a bit sweet for me (so it sounds like our datums have some leeway, but not totally different?), Bourneville I'd say was bittersweet, 80% I often find bitter, but maybe dried fruit/floral flavours...I'd put a sweet, chocolatey coffee between Galaxy & Bourneville? I rarely find red wine sweet, or as sweet as coffee, that was a surprise to me.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Fleurie. Mmmmmm.


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Perception comes into it, but it's also about what chemicals & compounds the food contains. Try drinking your coffee from a yellow cup, or a red one to make it taste like strawberries?
> 
> Frequently I find coffee on par with ripe fruit, sometimes more towards the jammy end? Agree on the chocolate mostly...Galaxy is a bit sweet for me (so it sounds like our datums have some leeway, but not totally different?), Bourneville I'd say was bittersweet, 80% I often find bitter, but maybe dried fruit/floral flavours...I'd put a sweet, chocolatey coffee between Galaxy & Bourneville? I rarely find red wine sweet, or as sweet as coffee, that was a surprise to me.


This confirms to me what I've been thinking for a while, that different people's taste buds work differently!

To me, Galaxy is overpoweringly sweet, Bourneville is very sweet and something like the 85% chocolates are starting to get a little bitter. The 'sweetest' coffee I've ever tasted is, to me, way more bitter than the darkest chocolate. The idea of a coffee that's somewhere between Galaxy and Bourneville is, to my mind, totally incomprehensible!

I wish I could taste coffee the way you guys do, so I could cut the sugar out


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Perception comes into it, but it's also about what chemicals & compounds the food contains. Try drinking your coffee from a yellow cup, or a red one to make it taste like strawberries?
> 
> Frequently I find coffee on par with ripe fruit, sometimes more towards the jammy end? Agree on the chocolate mostly...Galaxy is a bit sweet for me (so it sounds like our datums have some leeway, but not totally different?), Bourneville I'd say was bittersweet, 80% I often find bitter, but maybe dried fruit/floral flavours...I'd put a sweet, chocolatey coffee between Galaxy & Bourneville? I rarely find red wine sweet, or as sweet as coffee, that was a surprise to me.


I think the subliminal suggestion only work when you aren't creating them yourself









As gcogger says above, it just outlines how different tastes are. Perhaps perception is the wrong way to describe it, either way, I dont think coffee is anywhere near as sweet as you taste it. Whatever the physiological or psychological reaction is that causes differences it doesn't make one person right (the barista, who hates sugar) and the other wrong (the 'ignorant' customer who adds sugar).

I agree you should try coffee before you add sugar, for me its just a matter of deciding how much sugar I would like, as its always some. As I said before, by my reckoning the chances of the espresso actually having hit that sweet spot and allowing the sugars to emerge are pretty low, even by the highest coffee shop standards, in which case a sugar is a fair bet.


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## cbean (May 22, 2015)

subliminal suggestion??? Not sure what the big deal is here, if you want to put a cow turd in your coffee and it makes you happy why not? personally I choose the non cow turd path, but hey lets live and let live.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> I think the subliminal suggestion only work when you aren't creating them yourself


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/09/how-the-color-of-your-coffee-mug-can-change-the-way-your-coffee-tastes/


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

gcogger said:


> I wish I could taste coffee the way you guys do, so I could cut the sugar out


I'm not going to rule out that "taste" varies, but I think you have to consider that the way you make the coffee, the temperature you drink it at & of course the coffee itself, has a bearing too. If all coffee was more bitter than 80% dark chocolate, I wouldn't drink it at all. Perhaps if you did cut/reduce the sugar out (just a suggestion, not an edict) you might experience a shift in taste that might help on the way to going without? But coffee is to be enjoyed, not suffered/tolerated, so take it as you please.


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

MWJB said:


> I'm not going to rule out that "taste" varies, but I think you have to consider that the way you make the coffee, the temperature you drink it at & of course the coffee itself, has a bearing too. If all coffee was more bitter than 80% dark chocolate, I wouldn't drink it at all. Perhaps if you did cut/reduce the sugar out (just a suggestion, not an edict) you might experience a shift in taste that might help on the way to going without? But coffee is to be enjoyed, not suffered/tolerated, so take it as you please.


It's not the coffee itself, as other people can drink the same coffee and be perfectly happy without sugar. If I put in, say, half the sugar I'd normally use then to me it tastes of nothing but bitterness, but to my wife it tastes of nothing but sugar! Yes, the bitterness drops a tiny bit if I let it cool, but it's not by much.

I've tried (for a whole 6 months at one point!) reducing the amount of sugar, but I don't enjoy the coffee while I'm doing it. If I then allow myself to put the 'right' amount in, to just offset the bitterness without tasting sweet, I find that's virtually identical to how much I was putting in before. I've tried forcing myself to drink it with no sugar, to see if I could get used to it that way, but I literally cannot manage more than a sip or two.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

How are you with bitter foods like endive/chicory? Very sensitive to them too?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

gcogger said:


> It's not the coffee itself, as other people can drink the same coffee and be perfectly happy without sugar. If I put in, say, half the sugar I'd normally use then to me it tastes of nothing but bitterness, but to my wife it tastes of nothing but sugar! Yes, the bitterness drops a tiny bit if I let it cool, but it's not by much.
> 
> I've tried (for a whole 6 months at one point!) reducing the amount of sugar, but I don't enjoy the coffee while I'm doing it. If I then allow myself to put the 'right' amount in, to just offset the bitterness without tasting sweet, I find that's virtually identical to how much I was putting in before. I've tried forcing myself to drink it with no sugar, to see if I could get used to it that way, but I literally cannot manage more than a sip or two.


What is your roast preference. ..


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

And what is the method? Are we talking espresso?

I used to be a 2 sugars and or syrups guy. We're taking about my supermarket pre-ground era here.

Don't get me wrong, I have a very sweet tooth and I still love a sickly sweet espresso, but for me, while I'm trying to understand how extraction time, dose, grind etc. all alter the final drink and trying to improve my palate, I feel it's important I don't mask the flavour.

This probably results in me drinking a number of what should really be sink shots. The way I see it, you learn from your mistakes.

The Chemex was the first coffee I had where I didn't feel the need for sugar.

That said, I would never say someone is 'wrong' for the way in which they enjoy coffee. The world would be a boring place if everyone had the same tastes.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

risky said:


> And what is the method? Are we talking espresso?.


Pretty much any method, if you can get your espresso into the sweet zone & if you can keep bittering suspended solids out of a French press/Turkish. In espresso & drip you might get a degree of layers, where the sweetness might not be immediately apparent, maybe only when you get well into the drink. I think it's worth skimming/pouring off the upper layers, if bitter, & tasting all the way through a cup before assessing whether something is a sink shot or not.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

risky said:


> And what is the method? Are we talking espresso?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I have a very sweet tooth and I still love a sickly sweet espresso, but for me, while I'm trying to understand how extraction time, dose, grind etc. all alter the final drink and trying to improve my palate, I feel it's important I don't mask the flavour.
> 
> .


All those variable are key. but dont under estimate the actual coffee you are using , and whether you enjoy the taste , varietal , and roast level...

This is why some kind of brewing / cupping / steeping test helps you get to what it tastes like before the PF and the man mangle it


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> This is why some kind of brewing / cupping / steeping test helps you get to what it tastes like before the PF and the man mangle it


I must be an expert coffee mangler by now


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

risky said:


> I must be an expert coffee mangler by now


We all are .........


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I can't even cup properly


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Signs like that can **** off.

It's not the message. Its the bit about 'respect'.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> Signs like that can **** off.
> 
> It's not the message. Its the bit about 'respect'.


Yo spaz U gonna pop a capp ( cappuccino ) in their ass?


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## gcogger (May 18, 2013)

Guys, for me it's not down to subtleties of the coffee itself - as I said, other people have a completely different impression of the same cup of coffee. I'm not an espresso fan, but I've tried a variety of brew methods, coffees, roast levels etc. both made myself and by other people. Yes, there are differences, but to me it's just a slight variation on 'very bitter'.

As to foods, I don't really have a sweet tooth (I'm a starter + main kind of guy, rather than main + dessert). Yes, I find some things bitter (e.g. kale) but I'm probably about average there. I only like chocolate that's at least 70% cocoa, and I prefer drier/more bitter and hoppy beers etc. Maybe it's to do with hot drinks, as I need plenty of sugar in tea too, and hot fruit drinks make me feel nauseous!


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

big dan said:


> To be fair when I lived in bath maxwell cololona-Dashwood asked me not to out sugar in my flat white as the milk should be sweet enough to lift the drink. I refrained from adding sugar And that was the start of my journey into coffee snobbery!


be careful with your back... When you bend over to pick up that name you just dropped.

sorry, couldn't resist...


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