# Me Pulling.



## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Heres some softcore coffee porn for you guys.

Forgive the unnaturally long fingers and the gown....

Heres possibly the least professionally pulled espresso ever;

16g (Rave Monsoon Malabar 4 weeks (?) old) in and 24.5g out.

Still getting used to the grinder; but it produces some top grinds and is near zero retention. The grinder does have a micro-hopper





 which is effective at clearing the burrs, but does need a little brush to clear the chute entirely.

Usually distribution into the basket is much better, but I messed up a little. Call it stage fright...









I also turned the machine off by mistake....

The shot was pretty good, obviously being MM, no acidity but also the biters were in balance. I have actually found this bean to be quite finicky; one degree hotter on the PID and undrinkably bitter and any shorter and those acids appear and are really quite strong...


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## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

I would be polite and not comment on the video or your techniques







but I would like to know what lights are those on your Gaggia. I want to pimp my Silvia too


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

The lights look great. Shot looked good too.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

koahhe said:


> I would be polite and not comment on the video or your techniques
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No need to be polite....

Comment away......

I was kind of hoping for some constructive criticism anyway.

These lights and an LED driver all powered from inside the machine.

I used 3 strips, there is a thread in the Gaggia forum called "barista lights" in which I elaborate.

Sorry, it was "show off your set up".

This one.

The M3 tape didn't stick to the metal on the classic well enough, so I added a little bit of epoxy resin too.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Sorry, it was "show off your set up".

This one.


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## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> No need to be polite....
> 
> Comment away......
> 
> ...


I was just joking, didn't really notice anything bad. But, since you said that some feedback, I would suggest keeping the portafilter locked in until you start filling it up so its warm and purging for a second or two before pulling the shot


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> No need to be polite....
> 
> Comment away......
> 
> ...


One thing I try to avoid is locking the pf in with the coffee in it and leaving it any length of time before hitting the pump button. Realise this is probably just because of the vid.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Why does it take half an hour to get the coffee into the basket with such a beast of a grinder ?

What's the shaking and tapping of the portafilter all about ? Undoing all the distribution the doser has already done ?

Shot looked fast

Twisting the tamper whilst applying downwards pressure causes puck fractures

How did it taste ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Agreed to much faffing going on with the magnum and don't tap the portafilter just tamp straight onto the mound of coffee.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I thought I posted in this but maybe I hit cancel. Don't leave the pf full of coffee locked in to the warmed machine without the pump running for too long.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Why does it take half an hour to get the coffee into the basket with such a beast of a grinder ?
> 
> What's the shaking and tapping of the portafilter all about ? Undoing all the distribution the doser has already done ?
> 
> ...


I'm still getting used to the doser and my workflow hasn't really caught up yet...

Sometimes I don't get the basket under the exit chute well enough and it all falls to the far left of the basket, so the tapping was an attempt to rectify that.

The shot tasted alright, quite balanced.

Maybe a little bitter?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm kind of embarrassed now.

With my old grinder I used to have to do a LOT of messing around grinding into a basket, weighing the basket to make sure nothing had been lost (the grinds clumped in the chute and I lost maybe 2g every time?), flattening the grounds and trying to clear the chute, WDT, tamping. Maybe total prep time getting on for 3 or 4 mins? Was the only way to get a decent distribution though.

I think there is still a lot of streamlining to do with the Magnum, obviously.

Less messing with the grounds in the basket, less faff with tamping.

In the video the doser was mostly clean save for a few grounds caught in the corners, which I shouldn't worry about.

Obviously because I messed around so much with the basket the grind wasn't well distributed.....

What do you guys think about nutating before tamping?

Pointless?

The shot does look kind of fast, but I have found that this MM just pulls really weirdly.

It sort of bubbles out of the PF without any tiger striping, so its hard to tell how the shot will be by how it pours.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I've taken to nutating recently and it's working for me. Helps having a convex tamper. Don't be embarrassed. There's not way I'll be posting a video, I'm sure it would be full of mistakes. Could you post a link to the lens hood in eBay. Thinking if getting one. The throat in my grinder is 58mm as my motta tamper fits in it nicely.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Neill said:


> I've taken to nutating recently and it's working for me. Helps having a convex tamper. Don't be embarrassed. There's not way I'll be posting a video, I'm sure it would be full of mistakes. Could you post a link to the lens hood in eBay. Thinking if getting one. The throat in my grinder is 58mm as my motta tamper fits in it nicely.


I bought it from Coffeechap with the hood included.

The hood is 70mm dia.

Heres a quick search on ebay; http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.X48mm+lens+hood&_nkw=48mm+lens+hood&_sacat=0&_from=R40

Maybe Coffeechap will have a better suggestion though.

I'll pull another shot later and post a better video taking into account your suggestions...


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> I bought it from Dave with the hood included.
> 
> The hood is 70mm dia.
> 
> ...


Of course. I've searched before but there were quite a few different ones and I'm not sure which one it is.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Neill said:


> Of course. I've searched before but there were quite a few different ones and I'm not sure which one it is.


Mmmmm, I'm not sure either really.....

What grinder do you have?

The only 48mm lenses I have ever seen have been on old Olympus rangefinders and Leica cameras.

All my modern Cannon stuff is 52mm or bigger.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Neil I just ordered some more from eBay will send you the link, the come from china and take a while to get here but they are spot on


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I have a macap m4. It's 58mm not 48. I'll have a look again.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Neil I just ordered some more from eBay will send you the link, the come from china and take a while to get here but they are spot on


Thanks, quite happy to get it from china, there's no rush, just want to make sure it's the right one. Currently just sticking my tamper in there but it would be nice to be able o clear the burrs and shoot without sticking a brush in there.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Am on phone at mo when I get back I will send the link, but if you search for 58mm collapsible lens hood you should find them


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Am on phone at mo when I get back I will send the link, but if you search for 58mm collapsible lens hood you should find them


Guessing this is the one? http://bit.ly/HPPki3


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

That's exactly the same


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

It was pretty brave posting a vid Kyle. Top marks for spunk (maybe I shoulda used another word there...).

Guess most of us could do with some helpful criticism.

Maybe someday I'll gather the courage to do the same. See if I can outdo you on the dressing gown









Just one thing I noticed was the pf not being kept warm by being locked in to the machine while you were preparing. With my ridgeless basket I can faff all I want and when it's time to pull the shot I unclip the pf, click in the basket and away I go.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Milanski said:


> It was pretty brave posting a vid Kyle. Top marks for spunk (maybe I shoulda used another word there...).
> 
> Guess most of us could do with some helpful criticism.
> 
> ...


I guess the pf could leach heat from the basket as the shot is pulled but there are no cold spouts to leech from the brewed espresso.

I have done preheated and cool and I don't find any difference with the bottomless. I'll always heat a spouted pf though.

With my old grinder I left the pf in, but with this one I like to dose into the pf.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi kyle ,thanks for the clip. I personally love stuff like this, clips of people making coffee on here etc. It makes people seem more human, and it's a brave thing to do. None of us are professional baristas and all have our own foibles making coffee. But putting these up can help you with constructive advice so your to be applauded .

As said shot looks a little fast , and seems to be pulling off centre on the naked tho hard to tell.

I nutate with a trap torr tamper ( no other distribution techniques as such are used ) , seems to have vastly improved my naked PF pours.

I too use ridgeless baskets in a of with spring removed so a lot of the time just tamp in the basket then add to PF ...

Keep em coming, although perhaps wears clothes next time ....


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

+1 for the clothes!


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I heard to pull quicker with a darker bean on a VST.

What do you guys recommend if you think it's too quick?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> I heard to pull quicker with a darker bean on a VST.
> 
> What do you guys recommend if you think it's too quick?


Really at the end of the day be guided by your taste , if it's sour then that can be a symptom of it being too fast. I find a vst will pull quicker on the same grind and dose as a normal basket but that doesn't mean it should be left fast. Again depends on how it tastes.

In general you could -

A - keep dose same go finer on grind.

B - Or keep grind same up your dose

C - Or keep grind and dose same tamp harder .

D - It could tho be quick if it's channeling( it doesn't appear to be massively doing this on your clip , hard to tell from the angle shot tho. ) , for this I'd keep tamp , grind, dose same and probably nutate .

Without knowing where you are on your grind and grinder it's hard to tell. But in general I'd try A first .


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Really at the end of the day be guided by your taste , if it's sour then that can be a symptom of it being too fast. I find a vst will pull quicker on the same grind and dose as a normal basket but that doesn't mean it should be left fast. Again depends on how it tastes.
> 
> In general you could -
> 
> ...


It tasted pretty good though, like I said, a little bitter but certainly not sour at all and for a 16g dose 24.5 is right on the money for output isn't it?

The shot time was 25 seconds, which is what I was aiming for.

Can I ask what leads you to think it's too fast?

Maybe it's a stupid question though.

If you mean the shot blonded early, this bean just tends to pull blonde for the whole shot.....


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> It tasted pretty good though, like I said, a little bitter but certainly not sour at all and for a 16g dose 24.5 is right on the money for output isn't it?
> 
> The shot time was 25 seconds, which is what I was aiming for.
> 
> ...


First drips came quickly and the cone was fairly large. I just thought it looked blond because of the lights!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If it's tastes good then is good .....









If volume output and time are where you want then,bitterness may be due to where the extraction temp is ,but sure you know this already .

It find with VST i needed to adjust the grind finer than normal baskets .

I said it looks fast ,because the flow looked fast on the clip, as per Neil comments and it looked to go blondish perhaps a little early to my eyes ( really scientific ! ) . Obviously I can't see the dose weight time output like you can real terms.

Shoot another one for under the PF , will give more info .


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> If it's tastes good then is good .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll shoot it when I get home.

Re the the drips, I agree they are a little quick, usually I expect them at about 5 seconds, the video was at like 3 seconds or something.

I think when I sort my tamp out the initial drops will be later.

I'll try to push the grind to 27 seconds too.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Version 2.0

I tried nutating a little and pulled the shot tighter.

Could have benefitted from an extra second or two though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tamp looks even, ? Shot looks good , slower than last time , nice crema , bit of channeling at the start , possibly causing the sourness you have , although could be grind or temp also..... Thanks for getting dressed this time ....









Keep em coming , clips good fun .....


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I think the beans are also to blame a little though, I think they are past their best a little...

Now I'm in that precarious position, I have about 200g left and my next batch is not due to be roasted until tomorrow...

Coffee detox time soon----!!!!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> I guess the pf could leach heat from the basket as the shot is pulled but there are no cold spouts to leech from the brewed espresso.
> 
> I have done preheated and cool and I don't find any difference with the bottomless. I'll always heat a spouted pf though.
> 
> With my old grinder I left the pf in, but with this one I like to dose into the pf.


Cool, in which case I have learned something! Seems to make sense...

Everyone else agree that it's not necessary to preheat a bottomless pf?


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

I pre heat mine. When I didn't used to, I'd get donut extractions.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I pre heat mine ,but just pulled one cold ,and no difference . Got me thinking .......


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

If you can get the camera lower so that we can see the underside if the basket and a bit tighter in it would help.

I think your right, the shot going a bit longer would help if it's tasting sour.

Although you can change any of the grind/tamp/dose/time variables. I couldn't quite see the output on the scales was it 19.5?

Looks like quite a hard tamp I thought. I'd be tempted to grind finer and tamp lighter especially if you're going to nutate first.

The technique I tend to use is to have your fingers tips around the edge of the base of the tamper. This allows you to tamp straighter as you can feel the edge of the PF and apply even pressure around the base of the tamper. Hope this makes sense.

I'm no expert at nutating but from what I can gather the circular motion only needs to be slight. I've fouls that a light tamp works better with nutating.

Also I'm not sure if your using a flat or a convex tamp in the clip. I've only done it with a convex tamp, not sure if a flat tamp would dig in. Someone please correct me on this.

Were there any spurts from the naked PF?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> If you can get the camera lower so that we can see the underside if the basket and a bit tighter in it would help.
> 
> I think your right, the shot going a bit longer would help if it's tasting sour.
> 
> ...


output 19.5g.

Its flat.

Maybe at some point I'll be pestering Dave for a convex torr, but thats waaaaay off yet.

I don't really know what I'm tamping at, I just know that it's roughly the same every time.

Next time I'll tamp less hard and nutate more slightly.

No spurts.

I very very rarely get spurts unless I do a really bad job.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I nutate very slightly with a flat tamper and the surface still looks flat when I look at the top of the puck.

I feel it just seals the edges better and I don't tend to get any channelling.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> I very very rarely get spurts unless I do a really bad job.


You're doing better than me on my first attempts with a naked PF.









Its a tricky one to decide whether to nutate or not. If you do then you tend to grind coaser for it as it tends to slow the shot down more. so if you're trying to get dialled in you tend to either do either one or the other.

keep the clips coming


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> You're doing better than me on my first attempts with a naked PF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fingers crossed will do some tamping and pour clips tomorrow , nutating ,non nutation , fricking hard tamp etc....


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> You're doing better than me on my first attempts with a naked PF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have been using a naked PF since I had my Delonghi machine so it's nothing new to me; with my old grinder I used to have perfectly centre, well distributed shots.

But preparing the grinds in the basket, declumping WDT, leveling, ect took a good 5+ mins.

With this grinder basket prep was literally what you saw in the video, and while not perfect yet, I feel I'm getting better with each shot.....

I think where I am on the grinder is good, tomorrow I'll nutate just a little less and run the shot for 27s and see where that gets me.

I'll also angle the camera so you can see the pour; I'll use a cup tomorrow since you all have a pretty good idea about how it pours into the glass now and typically, I never use a glass.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Fingers crossed will do some tamping and pour clips tomorrow , nutating ,non nutation , fricking hard tamp etc....


You love compiling videos boots, you are becoming quite the star


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Boots likes videos like spukey likes raffles


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> You love compiling videos boots, you are becoming quite the star


Moi ,star ,nah . Next meet up I expect my own dressing room .


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Boots likes videos like spukey likes raffles


You sound like Gollum


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I find the reference in the what's new thread quite funny with this thread...


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

We all keep replying to me pulling


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I find the reference in the what's new thread quite funny with this thread...


The what's new thread?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> The what's new thread?


Never mind, got it.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> I have been using a naked PF since I had my Delonghi machine so it's nothing new to me; with my old grinder I used to have perfectly centre, well distributed shots.
> 
> But preparing the grinds in the basket, declumping WDT, leveling, ect took a good 5+ mins.
> 
> With this grinder basket prep was literally what you saw in the video, and while not perfect yet, I feel I'm getting better with each shot.....


I think you're right about the grinder, it's pretty good.

It's just getting the tamp/dose/grind/shot time right in relation to each other for this bean is the next bit. Just a bit of fine adjusting.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Glad you are enjoying that grinder, probably one of the most overlooked deals out there...


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Today you get milk too.

From yesterday the only thing I changed was tamp pressure, I tamped at maybe half the pressure and the pour was a lot quicker.

I kind of messed up my free pour.

I didn't expect to get any pourable microforam at all so when I got the beginnings of a heart I panicked and finished the pour before I could make a tit of my pour on national video....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pour looksa lot better , pulls to the middle earlier and looks less blonde. As always - tastes good = is good. Looks like the milk expanded quite a bit and there was a bit of thick foam at the start of the pour. Perhaps taking some off the top into another jug might help in this situation or pour a little faster ? Not that i am any kind of latte expert ( as we all know &#8230;. )

Thanks for the clip .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I don't know boots the tulip earlier was good


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Pour looksa lot better , pulls to the middle earlier and looks less blonde. As always - tastes good = is good. Looks like the milk expanded quite a bit and there was a bit of thick foam at the start of the pour. Perhaps taking some off the top into another jug might help in this situation or pour a little faster ? Not that i am any kind of latte expert ( as we all know &#8230;. )
> 
> Thanks for the clip .


Yes, I stretched the milk too far...

I always have trouble finding the sweet spot for stretching.


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## clickhappy (Feb 1, 2012)

Great vids, thanks for posting.


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