# Some advice for a novice please



## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

Can you please point me in the right direction, last week I must have been lucky as I managed excellent shots with my Hasbean subscription coffee but now I have moved to Rave signature and I am not sure whet I should be aiming for as I am getting quite drinkable shots but not none of the complex flavours?

Do I measure the weight in against weight out over what time or the quantity out in fluid oz?

I have a nice even fine grind and I started by putting 18g in and in 25sec got about 75g out but this seemed very bitter so I dropped to 14g

As this seems a popular blend can anyone tell me what they put in and get out.

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Noyer said:


> Can you please point me in the right direction, last week I must have been lucky as I managed excellent shots with my Hasbean subscription coffee but now I have moved to Rave signature and I am not sure whet I should be aiming for as I am getting quite drinkable shots but not none of the complex flavours?
> 
> Do I measure the weight in against weight out over what time or the quantity out in fluid oz?
> 
> ...


Is 75g out a typo, as that's incredibly long for an espresso?

JP


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

With signature aim for 18gram in to 28/30 grams out in 25/30 seconds and you shouldn't be too far off the ballpark .


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## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

No 75g was correct, it was in a larger cup as it was all I had to hand so very hard to judge quantity.

The tamping is what I find difficult to judge, I have read 30lb of pressure but trying this on the bathroom scales seems quite a lot.

I guess I should be aiming for around 1-1.5 fl oz at around 30g?

I know it's not easy without being here but should I aim for a finer grind or more tamping?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Firstly you are using two totally different coffee's, Has beans are a much lighter roast than Rave's Signature.

Your output from input is far to high, for 18 gm's ground coffee you should be aiming at between 28 and 36 gm's output in about 27 secs + or- a couple.

The ratio of coffee in to liquid out is usually taken as 1.6 to 2.0 times. 18 gm's coffee X 1.6 28.8 gm's liquid OR 18 gm's coffee X 2.0 = 36 gm's liquid.


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## Bigpikle (Oct 14, 2014)

I thing Rave Sig is very different to everything I ever had from Has Bean and although you dont mention which HB beans you have been using, I tried some of their espresso blends and all were much lighter roast with more floral/fruity flavours than I have had from any Rave beans. It might be that you can expect quite different flavours compared to what you have been getting before?

Having said that, as said above 18g - 75g is a very very long drink so I should think the flavours would be all over the place! I aimed for 18g in and 25-30g out n 25-30 sec and got some really nice drinks from it.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Don't worry about the tamping - you just need to be consistent rather than applying x amount of pressure.

75g is way too much. I don't use Rave coffee, but, assuming it's a relatively light roast, a 50% brew ratio tends to be a reasonable starting point. So, 18g in 36g out in 25 - 35 seconds. If it's taking less time than that then grind finer until you get in that ballpark. From there you can play around with dose and output to dial it in (go for 0.5g changes in dry dose each time).

JP


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

How long have you left it to rest. IMHO it needs 10 days to come into it's own.

Ian


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## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

That was my next point, I haven't I am too keen to get some coffee and I did not plan in advance but I have bought a kilo of signature and Italian job and I will also leave this weeks HasBean to rest until later in the week so I will always be resting the next batch.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Noyer said:


> That was my next point, I haven't I am too keen to get some coffee and I did not plan in advance but I have bought a kilo of signature and Italian job and I will also leave this weeks HasBean to rest until later in the week so I will always be resting the next batch.


You could try grinding the fresher beans around 30 minutes before you use them. Although this is anathema to many, Scott Rao in his recent book notes that it has a similar effect to resting beans, but is not quite as consistent.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Noyer said:


> That was my next point, I haven't I am too keen to get some coffee and I did not plan in advance but I have bought a kilo of signature and Italian job and I will also leave this weeks HasBean to rest until later in the week so I will always be resting the next batch.


One point to remember is that when you change beans you will almost certainly need to change the grind, sometimes quite considerably .


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## gingerneil (Aug 21, 2014)

Agree with what the others have said. I go 18g in so about 38/40g out. I sit my cup on little scales under the group, aiming to get the grind and tamp right so I get the output in 25-30s. I prefer to tamp hard, and adjust the grind. It's easier to adjust the grind and then keep it consistent than adjust the tamp.

If I want a longer drink, I'll draw 60g of water through the group into the cup, then pull the espresso directly into that, weighing it as above.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

My experience with Signature, 5 days they were JUST ok, 10 days they tasted like a totally different bean.

Ian


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## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

Right after 4 shots each a little finer I have got 18g into 28g in 38sec so maybe a tad too fine? but a much more pleasant drink, hopefully the rest will be down to the resting.

As I don't have any rested beans at the moment I will try the tip of resting after grind then make a not of how the taste developed over the next 8 days which hopefully will be the optimum 10 days.

Thank you all once again, it's a whole new world to me.


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## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

The weighing into the cup is now making sense and easy to do, I need to sort a tamper as I'm using something I cobbled together out of bits I found in the kitchen so fingers crossed for the raffle if not it will be next weeks purchase


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## Bigpikle (Oct 14, 2014)

sounds good - most would say 38 sec is a little too long and just stop at 30 sec or so and see what you've got.

I really liked both Sig and Iatalian Job, and ended up buying 1kg of IJ as my 'go-to' blend afterwards. Keep playing and just remember to only change 1 thing at a time - if you change the grind slightly then make sure you keep the weights in, tamp pressure etc the same. That way you can isolate what is making a difference.

Have fun!

PS. Been enjoying the Aeropress this weekend. Thanks


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Noyer said:


> ?..I need to sort a tamper as I'm using something I cobbled together out of bits I found in the kitchen...


I have a basic 58mm'ish flat base tamper with wooden handle you can have if you cover postage and promise to pass it along when you trade up.

I think it's this one. Just not certain. I've had it for years.

http://www.garraways.co.uk/p331350/wooden-coffee-tamper.html?gclid=CJHq4pCAssICFSbHtAodEwYAIQ


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## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

Obnic said:


> I have a basic 58mm'ish flat base tamper with wooden handle you can have if you cover postage and promise to pass it along when you trade up.
> 
> I think it's this one. Just not certain. I've had it for years.
> 
> http://www.garraways.co.uk/p331350/wooden-coffee-tamper.html?gclid=CJHq4pCAssICFSbHtAodEwYAIQ


Thank you for that very kind offer but I have just been told to wait for father christmas 

(Fingers still crossed for the raffle though)


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## Noyer (Nov 26, 2014)

Well a big thank you once again for all the advice, just sitting down after making a couple of kilo's of sausages to a much nicer coffee. I did as suggested and left for 30 min after grinding and with the right ratio and another days worth of resting I am now getting a nice nutty flavour without the bitterness of yesterday. No chocolate yet but hopefully this will come with more resting.


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

I'm pretty inexperienced I find with rave beans using my Classic/Super jolly set up that a light tamp is working best for me to much pressure  I get in around the mentioned figured and a good consistency. As soon as I start try different pressures it goes all over the shop (figuratively Speaking lol)


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