# ECM Technika III switches 'off'



## Erwino (Aug 1, 2019)

Hi all,

Strange times! I've got a ECM Technika III that this week started acting strangely. The machine will turn on (the green light will light up with the orange light) but sometimes the orange light will switch off directly or after a short interval. After that, the machine won't warm up or activate the pump when the lever is switched. Sometimes it'll heat up, but after a while the organge light switches off and won't activate again, even when restarting the machine. When the machine cools down for about 20 minutes, It'll start again.

In the manual it says that this behavior can mean that the contacts from the water basin might not make contact with the machine. As far as I can see this is not the problem. Also, I've tried the water basin with the screws farther out, this did not make a difference. The water basin is also filled with more then enough water. (The sides of the water basin are a bit bent in; maybe this increases with more water inside?)

Also, I cleaned the contacts.

Last fact: this morning, I had the problem again. I emptied the water basin and put the machine on. Of course it registered there is no water in there and switched off (more quickly then when 'the fault' happens). After that, the machine started up and worked again.

Does anyone have any clue what I can do, or do I need to send it for some service?

Thanks in advance!

Best regards

Erwin


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## Erwino (Aug 1, 2019)

One addition, I recently switched to using filtered water. I think this will help. But can it be that water too well filtered cannot conduct well enough for the machine to register?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Can you provide a photo of the water tank and the low water detection mechanism, does it have a float in it.?



Erwino said:


> One addition, I recently switched to using filtered water. I think this will help. But can it be that water too well filtered cannot conduct well enough for the machine to register?


 What contacts did you clean can you provide a photo

How old is the machine?


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

It is correct that water level sensors use minerals as water isn't conductive, but I do not think a normal filter can do this.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

A Brita or equivalent filter won't purify water enough to not conduct, only a distiller or reverse osmosis machine can do that.

It sounds to me more like a loose connection that's fine when cold, and just shifts enough when warmed up to break the circuit. I doubt the machine puts any significant voltage into the water to detect it's there as that'd be a safety hazard. So either there's a loose wire, or the power supply that's running the circuit has aged. Capacitors are the thing that dies there usually, they just no-longer supply enough power.


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## Erwino (Aug 1, 2019)

Thanks for your suggestions. I added some pictures.

So in the first picture you can see that the side of the basin is dented a bit, this might cause the screw not making enough contact. But I would expect the error to happen more predictably. Also I had the screw farther out on both sides and this did not make a change. I cleaned both the screws and the interior of the machine, just to be sure.

The second picture shows the interior of the machine. On the left side you can see the way in which the machine connects to the water basin. I believe this contact is all right.

The error usually happens after a refill of water, that has just been filtered (in a Zero water can). Next time the error happens, I'll try to ad a regular, unfiltered cup of water to see if has to do with conduction.

I'm not really sure how old the machine is, but I guess 5 to 8 years. I bought it second hand. No further complaints.

Thanks for thinking along!


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## Erwino (Aug 1, 2019)

@allikat Thanks!

I'll check inside tomorrow, sounds reasonable enough! Maybe I can find out where it's lose (enough).

How the machine works exactly is unclear, but it registers when the machine is out of water and shuts down, because it is a safety measure for the heating element I believe. I thought it was done via the contacts on the side of the water basin, so I assumed it is electrical.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The Gicar boxes put out a low DC voltage if a machine uses electronic low water detection and I've never had any problems with water with a TDS as low as 5. I converted my Duetto to low water using an internal sensing mechanism and two spring contacts on the bottom. The contacts in the tank would sometimes get dirty (nature of DC voltage) and need cleaning.

Can you show a photo of your tank interior?


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## Erwino (Aug 1, 2019)

Here are two pictures of the interior, looks clean to me. Am I right?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

That lower fitting looks a bit funky to me, almost as if they make a contact with one of the side fittings only and the lower fitting to complete the circuit. It's funny how it looks so corroded for what is presumably a brass fitting? If the contact is made there, perhaps it needs cleaning?

You need to check whether the circuit is made left side to right side contact, or either contact to base water fitting. One clue is if there is no a metal to metal contact on the base of the tank to the fitting in the machine, then it can't be that way.

Then really, you are left with the side contact probably loosing contact with the side of the machine, or a specific contact area on the side of the machine (vibration) exacerbated by the bowing inward of the tank in that area. The stainless nuts appear clean, so I can't see a problem there. It's why I used springs on the bottom of the tank on my duetto conversion...to always ensure a good contact.

I didn't realise ECM was using that system so recently, other machines of theirs I reviewed the Mechanica and Barista (12 and 8 years ago respectively) didn't have the same system.


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

Hello dear coffee forums.

Sorry for digging this old thread.

First post here. I was looking to the internet about a problem I have with my machine. An ECM mechanica 3.

I have exactly the same things mentioned in the first post.

The machine runs flawlessly until I brew the second coffee. Then the orange light turns off while the reservoir is full of water. I bypassed the reservoir sensor and made a continuous connection but the problem still exists meaning that the sensor isn't faulty.

My other two guesses are a bad ground connection or the control box.

But why the problem appears only when the machine is warmed highly enough?

Could it be any connection with the high temperature and my two other guesses?

Or it's something else going on?

I see that the fellow didn't post if he found any solution.

Do you have anything to suggest?

I'm sorry about the long post and my bad English.

Thank you very much in advance.

I will appreciate any suggestions.


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## Erwino (Aug 1, 2019)

Hi!

Since I stopped filtering the water, the problem hasn't reoccured. So for me that was tme solution. Probably a very agressive filter.

I recall once having the problem, adding a glass of unfiltered water solved the issue.

I thought I reported back. Sorry.

Hope this helps

Kind regards

Erwino


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

Thank you Erwino for your response.

Unfortunately my machine doesn't use the same low water sensor system and i believe there is no way to be on the water.

Thank you very much although


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Simpleman Sometimes when the control boxes go bad they fail once the machine has been on for a while and is hot. often they are fine again the next day until they warm up.

Remove the control box, open it up and inspect the surface for anything obvious, especially a bad joint in the area where the tank reservoir sensor attaches to the board.

@SimplemanWelcome to the forum


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

Thank you very much Dave.

I 've just pull 2 shots.

It was all fine.

I will wait to cool down and i will open the panels to inspect the control box.

I will come back with the results.

Thank you very much again.


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

I just opened the c.box.

There is nothing obvious, corrosion, where the cables from the sensor connects to the board and the connections where hold up strong.

But i saw something that doesn't seems right.

I am not so good with the electrical stuff but i think it's a bad relay.

Its black inside.

(I can't find how to upload photos.)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

You need 1 more post, or post a link to an image sharing service.


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

This is what is all black inside.

But does it effect the low water sensor?


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)




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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

I've had in the past some short circuit after discalced the boiler. It was turning off the general electric fuse of the house. But after a few days it was working properly. I don't know why. Can it be from that the smoked relay?

I hope I didn't confused you more.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Simpleman said:


> I've had in the past some short circuit after discalced the boiler. It was turning off the general electric fuse of the house. But after a few days it was working properly. I don't know why. Can it be from that the smoked relay?
> 
> I hope I didn't confused you more.


 *You have introduced new information*. The relay handles the power of the heating element, unless the machine also uses an SSR and that relay simply switches power to the SSR (I checked my photo archives of a Mechanika III I reviewed, and I don't believe they use a secondary SSR, at least I couldn't see one.

I don't know if this relay is causing the problem, you are having now....certainly an arcing relay can draw more power than the machine is designed to pull and trip an MCB, you are talking and MCB rather than an RDC right? So perhaps it arced and tripped a fuse.

I'd be very, very precise about what's happening, or it will cost you money, possibly a lot of money. You said the problem was the same as the guy that started the thread, reading back, it's not exactly the same. My best *"guess", which you can confirm is right:*

The machine switches on and works for 1, 2 or 3+ shots, until suddenly the orange light that denotes the machine is heating simply won't switch on and the machine cools down. "Sometimes" when you turn it on, it doesn't heat, but when you turn it on a second time it's fine. *The pump will still run when you lift the lever.*

Does what I have written in italics sound right?


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> I don't know if this relay is causing the problem, you are having now....certainly an arcing relay can draw more power than the machine is designed to pull and trip an MCB, you are talking and MCB rather than an RDC right? So perhaps it arced and tripped a fuse.


 I am talking about MCB Dave.



> Does what I have written in italics sound right?


 Not exactly.

I turn on the machine in the morning.It heats up all right. Everything works ok. Heating element, pump,both lights green and orange,etc.

I pull two shots or one and i leave the machine till i finish my coffee and return to do a backflush and turn it off.

Its then when i return for the backflush i see the orange light off and no power to pump and heating element. The green light stays on.

After a couple of minutes everything goes normal. I do backflush and turn it off. One or two times it happened in the middle of backflush.

I don't know Dave what a SSR is.

But from a little search at the other side of the Atlantic i saw that. Can it be possible?



> You have the same control box as the gentleman with the Nuova Simonsays. Note relay K1. This is where the internal power comes from to energize all the other relays. It is a form C relay which means that it has a set of NO and a set of NC contacts. The NC contacts power the light that you see. It is the low water sensor that initiates this relay and closes the NO contact and opens the NC contact. No water, no internal power, and no machine functions. The low level probe has to be clean or you can ground to the tank to get the pump running. The purpose of all this is to prevent a dry boiler heating element meltdown check writing experience. If you can't get any response out of the control box once there is water in the boiler or reservoir


 Thank you very much again Dave

Old photo from my machine


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

Some photos of the control box from today


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

I think it's irrelevant the problem that i have now with "the low water sensor" and the other with the electrical short that i must fix also.

The electrical short i believe it has to do with the heating element. Because it appears only after descale. Is it possible to short because it makes contact with the water after scale goes from a broken part of the heating element? Or a bad seal of the h. element?

The short disappeares after a few days. Like scale builds up again and fills the "gap". I don't know.

Maybe i have too much imagination.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Simpleman I don't know, I'm lost A heating element problem out would seem to be separate issue, and scaling up again isn't going to fix it in time...but I'm not going to get sidetracked by that. The blackened relay should not ( think), stop the pump from operating...but, who knows.

You could try soldering a replacement relay onto the board. If that doesn't work, perhaps just buy a control box and see if that fixes it.


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

I will start by replacing the relay.

If i could find one. I searched on the internet and it didn't come up the same as myne.

The most difficult thing is that i cannot duplicate the problem.I had the machine last night turn on but without the panels. And the problem didn't appeared. Seems like it happens when its really hot in there.

I will come back if i had it fixed.

Thank you very much for your responses. I appreciate it.


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

I replaced today the relay with a new one. I couldn't find anywhere a 14v≈dc and i bought a 12v≈dc instead.

I turned on the machine and everything was all right again.

I left it to warm up for 30min and then i tried to pull a shot. Untill I grind the coffee and prepare the PF the orange light turned off. So brought back my brikka..

From what I can understand is that the problem became worse.

Could it be the new relay that cannot handle the heat?

Or is there any other temperature sensor that can trip that problem?

I know that I don't have any good informations. Only i can do is guesses. Its all dark.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Simpleman Sometimes a relay starts arcing, which makes it arc worse and worse over time....this could have been what drew all the current and tripped the MCB. Glad it's working again.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Glad it's working again.


 I don't think it is, sadly. Seems like it worked for a very short time, but then the symptoms became worse. Unless I am misreading the post:



Simpleman said:


> From what I can understand is that the problem became worse.
> 
> Could it be the new relay that cannot handle the heat?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Simpleman The pump not running was a confusing symptom, didn't fit....I think you had 2 faults. Get a new control board, probably best way to fix it.


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## Simpleman (Nov 27, 2021)

The new relay didn't fix the problem. I dont know if any other relay it's going bad also. I replaced the obvious one that had been blackened inside. But there are other ones that they aren't clear to see what's going on inside. I don't know how to check them but i will find out.

@DavecUK the pump it's not working along with the heating element because of the "low water sensor" safety "turns on". And i can't find the reason.

I also don't know if its possible to find a new control box. And to be honest I'm not ready to give up. Or willing to pay half an espresso machine for a control box only.

I will keep up the searching.

In the meantime I appraise the coffee from my old brikka.

Thank you again for your responses.


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