# PID options apart from Auber and MeCoffee



## humbug1968

Hi all,

As per the title I am very keen to PID my Silvia and trying to make sure I have considered all the options.

From my research so far some options covered in previous posts seem to have been discontinued and new options are coming out with broader application but less reviews so I am finding this a bit tricky. The options currently seem to be:

*Auber* kit - US based, seems expensive for what it is but probably the least hassle to install / configure. Benefit of a specific display but not everyone likes the look.

*MeCoffee* - EU based, cheaper and at least as capable/ easy to install. Major negative for me though is the reliance on an android/chrome app (I don't have android and there's no guarantee the developer will continue to support so I'd prefer a screen that would guarantee I'd never be stuck without the ability to get feedback or change settings)

*ITO* - looks like a new option and very interesting, mainly German following. Uses project caffe firmware. As well as temperature control, has flow sensor, pressure sensor and control and could interface with a water level sensor. Currently not taking orders but in production. I've not seen any full write ups of someone fitting it to a Silvia though and so I don't know whether it's what I'd call a kit or more DIY. Screen looks v smart when fitted (although obviously depends on the ability to cut such a beautiful hole in the case!). Ordering site: http://www.softwareandcircuits.com/division/circuits/onlineshop/articles/ito/configure.php

firmware: http://projectcaffe.bplaced.net/features_leva.html

background: http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/alternative-for-pid-t41748-10.html and https://www.thuisbarista.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5484

easy kit - predecessor to ITO, discontinued?

PID Silvia - discontinued? http://store.pidsilvia.com/index.php

PIDkits.com / MLG - discontinued?

Watlows - too expensive?

DIY options - I've not got the time

Primarily I need temperature control however I've yet to configure my OPV so the possibility to combine with a pressure sensor is very attractive. Ideally I would have the display act as a stopwatch too, displaying shot time while I am pulling.

I'm leaning towards the ITO (if the opportunity to order one arises!) however I'd be very grateful for any information or experiences from other members as well as whether there are other viable options I haven't come across yet.

Thanks all and I hope my research to date is potentially of some use to others too...


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## greymda

well, a DYI is ~25-35$ delivered for all components from China. a lot of how-tos. do the math )


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## UbiquitousPhoton

The Auber works, and they support it actively. If you don't have the time as you say, then this is the direction I would be encouraging you to go for. It doesn't take that long to get it shipped from the US.


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## humbug1968

Yes thank you both - I absolutely agree that the cheapest option is DIY and the 'sensible', minimum hassle option is Auber. Nevertheless, I'm tempted by the more modern setup of the ITO and its greater functionality. I'll need to read a lot more google translate of German forums to see what I'd be getting myself into though!!

in the meantime if anyone has first hand ITO experience I'd be fascinated to hear it...


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## greymda

i believe there a no ITO users on here, just on kaffe-netz

anyhow, if it wouldn't the price, i would definitely go into it.


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## humbug1968

Yes thanks, I've been puzzling over my google translate of kaffe-netz. If I take the plunge there I'll be sure to do a write up here. It doesn't sound like I'm missing any obvious alternatives though which is reassuring.


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## greymda

well, you should think what is really the features you're after.

if thats a PID, any will do. even a chinese 30$ PID (see XMT7100, for example).

if you want to add some other features, like preinfusion (i dont use), water pump voltage control (this i use, but just because i can) - then meCofee for 119 (?) is okay, does the job.

if you want all above + water flow control (and i guess that's it, what ITO delivers above the first 2 options), then ITO for ~300 (full pack) is... well.. if you add ITO's price to a Rancilio you are on E61 territory... and that is completely another story...


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## mirceat

ITO is definitely the most featured controller kit for espresso machines.

The full option kit would be 196€, but one get pretty powerful installs on 120-140€, without postage.

There are many mixed German/English topics on Kaffee-Netz, therefore any questions in English are welcomed on the corresponding Q&A topic https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/ito-fragen-und-antworten.104062/.

Hey greymda, do you still prefer the vintage E61 to an electronic profiling solution? They are 2 different worlds. After experiencing an advanced electronic controller, I don't see reasons to put E61 on my shopping list.


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## greymda

i would still consider a E61 group with a rotary pump over a Rancilio with an aftermarket profiling solution, given both have same price









just because later on, i can install the same aftermarket profiling solution on the E61 machine, if i find i lack it's benefits (but i doubt it).


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## mirceat

I am not an expert, but I would consider faustino's words on E61, on different occasions.

ito could simulate E61 in preinfusion and thermal control, besides many other working profiles.

ito can be used on an E61 in a restricted mode, therefore it's not worth to install ito on an E61, IMO.

Some useful quotes from Introducing ito:

Eine Espressomaschine mit leva! wird mit wählbarem Brühdruckverlauf brühen können, da die Leistung der Pumpe in feinen Schritten dosiert werden kann (über 100 Leistungsstufen durch Phasenanschnitt). Sie könnte beispielsweise mit dem fallenden Druckverlauf eines Handheblers brühen oder Preinfusion wie eine E61-Maschine durchführen.

On a free translation: an espresso machine with leva! could work with a very precisely defined pressure profile. For example, it could brew with the falling pressure profile of a hand lever or could perform preinfusion like an E61 machine.

On the same topic:

Pressure-Profiling ist eingeschränkt, wenn die Brühgruppe einen Mechanismus enthält, der den Druckverlauf im Siebträger vom Druck am Drucksensor (Pumpendruck) entkoppelt. Damit sind insbesondere E61-Gruppen mit Preinfusionskammer und die billigen Brühgruppenstöpselventile in manchen Einsteiger-Maschinen gemeint.

Meaning: Pressure profiling is restricted when the brewing unit contains a mechanism which decouples the pressure profile in the basket from the pressure at the pressure sensor (the pump pressure). I mean in particular the E61 groups with a preinfusion chamber...

On the same topic again:

Automatische Dosier- und Aufwärmprogramme stehen nicht zur Verfügung, wenn die Brühgruppe manuell geöffnet werden muss. Damit sind insbesondere nicht-elektrifizierte E61-Gruppen mit Hebelchen gemeint.

Meaning: automatical shot dosing and heating program are not available if the brewing unit has to be opened manually. This means, in particular, non-electrified E61 groups operated by lever.


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