# Two Classics fail after six months



## jwripple (Dec 27, 2011)

Just a word of warning. After much faffing around when my Silvia expired, I moved to a Classic, influenced to some extent by this forum. The first machine, used once a day to produce three cups of espresso, lasted six months. Amazon replaced it without quibble. The second has lasted almost exactly the same time. Kudos to Amazon for refunding my money, again without quibble. No kudos at all to Gaggia, whose quality control must be non-existent. Both machines failed in the same way, and without warning: pump functioning but no coffee output. I've had enough of pump machines - back to my first love, the Europiccola.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Possibly the solenoid as these are smaller on the new classics, which is disappointing. My classic is 10 years old, and not well treated by its previous owner, it's still going strong!


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## oversleep (Nov 2, 2012)

I am about to get this classic but have abit of pause after see this tread....


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Gaggia classics are brilliant machines. New ones have a smaller solenoid that can be prone to failure, but of course are under warranty. Outside of warranty if you are fairly technically minded they are easy to fix. In fact, one of the bonuses of the classic is that they are extremely easy to fix and look after yourself, part of the reason they last so long. With new ones being around £110-£150 and second hand for around £70-£100 there isn't a machine even close to competing with it. Most, if not all machines in the price group are set up for pods, the gaggia classic included. The classic is however very easy to modify, for under £30 you can swap the steam arm, get an unpressurised basket and mod the over pressure valve (the latter needing a limited amount of technical knowledge). Essentially you then have a fully manual machine for around £150. The biggest comparison is the Rancilio Silvia, that is a slightly better machine, but comes in at £400 new. There is a reason that the majority of this forum own, or have owned a gaggia classic.


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## Liam (Nov 8, 2012)

oversleep said:


> I am about to get this classic but have abit of pause after see this tread....


There will always be a small percentage of any item that is either faulty on arrival or will become faulty because of manufacturer fault, just seems this guy has been a bit unlucky. If you weigh this comment up with loads of others on here who are very happy with their Classics then id still say go for it.

I saw your other post on the thread about them on amazon, and for 125 id get one, gives you plenty of money left for accessories/grinder rather than getting a used silvia, just my opinion anyway.

Hope that helps somewhat


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

CoffeeGeek said:


> The Rancilio Silvia and Gaggia Classic are different machines; from a health point of view and longevity, the Rancilio Silvia, is by far the best!


Can I ask what is unhealthy about the Classic?


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

CoffeeGeek said:


> The Rancilio Silvia and Gaggia Classic are different machines; from a health point of view and longevity, the Rancilio Silvia, is by far the best!


It's also £250-£300 more, it's debatable to whether its worth the extra or not. The views are probably 50/50 each way


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

A new boiler for a classic is circa £40 you could buy 6-7 with the price gap. Seeing my classic boiler is 10 years old and never needed replacing, that would mean if the boiler is the only fault, then you are looking at 60-70 years before you catch up with a Silvia's cost, I'm not sure a silvia would last that long







I know it's quite a stupid argument, but the point is, you really have to consider whether the silvia is worth the extra money, only another £150 will get you a piccino. I'm not at all against the silvia, just playing devils advocate.... I hope.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I'd fully agree, the other advantages with the silvia are greater temperature stability, better steam pressure. And, far far better looking!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

I'm not convinced there's anything dangerous about aluminium, but I don't anyone here would argue that the Silvia is not a better machine than the Gaggia, is just a question of how much better since the price differential between the two has increased. Up to now the Classics have had a good reputation for reliability and the Silvia is still a monoblock/single boiler/dual use machine.


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## jwripple (Dec 27, 2011)

I just want my machine to make a good cup of espresso. I don't want to tinker with it, mend it, or return it for repair. My first La Pavoni made excellent coffee for several years but was never the same after it went back to the factory for repair. The Silvia was never that great, but lasted three years. The Classics both made very good coffee for six months. There's no way I'm going there again. I'm sure lots of you are very happy with your classics - you wouldn't be here otherwise. I simply sounded a note of coation.


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## Steve_S_T (Dec 7, 2012)

2 failures certainly feels a little more than mere bad luck, although it probably is. That said I need to replace the steam valve on my Classic and it's not yet 2 months old. As I've changed the steam wand to a Rancilio Silvia one I didn't feel I would be able to claim under the warranty, so I ordered the part from Mark at Gaggia Manual Services, but if the steam valve goes again inside the warranty period I'll replace the Gaggia wand, send it back under warranty and consider my options with regard to replacement or refund and a different machine. That said I'm really happy with it and probably wouldn't bother upgrading unless I can afford to step up to a twin boiler (rather drawn towards Isomac Tea II for some reason).

Steve.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

I wonder if there is a quality control issue here? I've had three Classics in the last ten years. One packed up due to my failure to adhere to proper maintenance, eg descale regularly and replenish the boiler after steaming milk. The other two are still going strong. But my Classics predate the take over of Gaggia by Phillips. Could this account for the increased failure rate, i.e. a downgrade on quality and reliability? Also, not enough attention is drawn to the importance of replenishing the boiler after steaming. When you switch on the steam button, I believe the pump does not replenish the boiler consequently, the boiler can run dry and risk burning out the element. It's vital to make sure the boiler is cooled down and re-filled. This can be done by switching off the steam button and switching on the brew button. As it is likey to spit, put a plastic bowl under the brew head. When the hissing and steam settle down to just water, it's safe to switch off. This doesn't just apply to Classics - it needs to be followed with all other single boiler models. If you follow this simple rule, your boiler will be grateful and far less likely to come to a premature end as my two Classics show. Finally, to backflush or not backflush? Seems to be a lot of debate about this. I come down on the side that if it has a three way solenoid, you need to backflush. Don't know if newer Classic manuals specify this but my older versions don't. Rancilio specify that Silvias be backflushed monthly. That's good enough for me.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I have a new (Philips) Gaggia Classic. It hasn't missed a beat for 12 months now. The steam valve could close a little tighter, but it is fine as long as I am quite firm with it. Apparently it has the small solenoid and it is recommended that you shouldn't backflush, but I have ignored that and haven't run into any problems. I've swapped the steam wand, modded the OPV and fitted a DIY PID so I'm quite familiar with the workings. It is a simple and clever design and easy to maintain. The only question mark I have is over Philips service, which I haven't needed to use, so it would be unfair for me to comment.

The machines I'd consider swapping it for are 3/4 times the price I paid for it, and it is even cheaper now.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

CoffeeGeek said:


> ... from a health point of view and longevity, the Rancilio Silvia, is by far the best!


Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure this claim has any scientific or factual basis and could be misleading.


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## alemarengo (Jan 2, 2013)

Guys: now, I'm a bit scared about what I've read... not only because I'm still waiting for my Classic to arrive(...), but also because I'm really not familiar with electric tech. At least, so far.

More, aren't there any old solenoid valve left to buy out there? Will descaling the only weak solution to save my Classic or not? Or is it better to take for granted that my Classic will break like any other machine?

Please, write something that will keep me calm...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You cannot reduce the retail price of an item by 50% as Phillips have done and maintain build quality. Less powerful elements, different solenoids.....what else I wonder?


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> You cannot reduce the retail price of an item by 50% as Phillips have done and maintain build quality. Less powerful elements, different solenoids.....what else I wonder?


 Not necessarily - on mass produced items costs do diminish over time. The tooling costs will have been recovered years ago and standard components like pumps and solenoid valves could well have come down in cost. New technology may have enabled them to make the cases cheaper too. I'm just guessing, of course.

Alemarengo, don't be scared - there's plenty of happy Classic owners out there. And anything that goes wrong is fixable.


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## jwripple (Dec 27, 2011)

I started this thread not to knock the Classic, but simply to note my experiences with recent machines. I don't think I even knew about the Phillips acquisition. What I would add to my original comment is that the two machines I had both felt extremely flimsy. All of the removable parts were of very thin plastic, the drip tray in particular, and the fit was poor. I don't know anything about the internals, and frankly I don't want to. Their rapid failure didn't come as that much of a surprise to me - they gave every appearance of being built to a - low - price. But I still expect better that six months use from a device costing the best part of £200.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I had two Classics ten years ago, and they were excellent machines. Sorry, but the new ones are not! Rolo, you are right about recovering costs etc, but the only reason the would reduce the heater element is to save money.......and I am suggesting that that may well be indicative of the rest of the machine.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

jwripple said:


> I just want my machine to make a good cup of espresso. I don't want to tinker with it, mend it, or return it for repair. My first La Pavoni made excellent coffee for several years but was never the same after it went back to the factory for repair. The Silvia was never that great, but lasted three years. The Classics both made very good coffee for six months. There's no way I'm going there again. I'm sure lots of you are very happy with your classics - you wouldn't be here otherwise. I simply sounded a note of coation.


Hmmmmmmm 2 failures in 6 months...either a serious manufacturer issue (which you expect to be more widely reported) or its you........ The Silvia online is £370+ the classic £180 none graded/refurb'd...

Did you buy refurb'd? Only had mine 2 weeks but 2 year warranty and decent retailer I'll chance it.... (better machine for under £200?)


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## jwripple (Dec 27, 2011)

I don't think it's me. Brand new machines, light use, regular cleaning, no issues until sudden failure. I know that no statistically valid conclusions can be drawn from my experience, but you don't always make your choices or form your opinions purely on statistics.


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## origmarm (Mar 7, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I had two Classics ten years ago, and they were excellent machines. Sorry, but the new ones are not! Rolo, you are right about recovering costs etc, but the only reason the would reduce the heater element is to save money.......and I am suggesting that that may well be indicative of the rest of the machine.


I tend to agree with this. I have one of the older Classics that I've modified a fair bit and it's basic but well built. I recently opened a newer one to fit a PID for a friend and a lot of the parts are different, at least cosmetically. It does appear to have a smaller solenoid and a different boiler but that is what I noticed given that that is what I was looking for it that makes sense. The price seems to have dropped a fair way also of late. Either it's Phillips' buying power and economies of scale/efficiency gains in the factory (which wouldn't surprise me, this being a long-standing Italian company and all) or it's cost savings on cheaper parts.

The view inside and this experience with two machines worry me. That said this experience seems to be relatively isolated so who knows...


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