# Expobar Dual Boiler



## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

OK, this is now driving me crazy. I'm an impatient guy and need to get a new espresso machine to replace my cheap, now broken, machine. I had purchased a machine on here, but that fell through as it developed a fault. I have a wanted ad for an Expobar Dual Boiler / something similar, but it seems these machines don't come up that often.

I'm thinking of going for new, but that doesn't put much in my budget range (£800). So I'm thinking of upping the budget to cover an Expobar Dual Boiler from Bella Barista; this would be on a credit card so not a general budget for used items. I can't make myself wait for a couple of months to have the cash available and/or for the right thing to come up second hand.

I've pretty much discounted getting something from abroad (ie from Italy / NL etc), as I'd like the reassurance of a UK distributor plus the advice / 'training' from Bella Barista sounds like a good idea.

A new Expobar Dual Boiler is 1285 from Bella Barista (the reservoir only is 1185, but out of stock). Within my range and in stock they also have Bezzera BZ10, ECM Heidelberg Barista, Rocket Plus PID. The other machines are HX and my preference is for the Expobar.

Am I wrong / crazy to be thinking of buying new?

The alternative is to get something cheap (£2-400) and wait for something to come up s/hand and then sell on. But of course, I still have to wait for that and then sell/buy as well.

Reading this back, I've not really asked much of a question but just generally looking for opinions before I spend lots of money!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you want a DB and can afford it now then just get one. Go to BB and try out your options.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

You aren't crazy to buy new, but for almost the price of a new Expo you could get something much better like a La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 mk2, but you'd have to get it from a foreign supplier.

The Expo used to be the absolute no-brainer at that price point, but now I'm not so sure. If you do get one, get the mains feed with a rotary pump.

You could also put up a wanted post with your budget and see what it throws up


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

coffeebean had a forum offer available that would beat the BB price by some way - £1050 delivered I think.

I vaguely recall him posting about Expobar changes to supplier policy a while ago, but maybe worth checking


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> If you want a DB and can afford it now then just get one. Go to BB and try out your options.


This is my thinking. May take the afternoon off tomorrow and pop along.



Spazbarista said:


> You aren't crazy to buy new, but for almost the price of a new Expo you could get something much better like a La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 mk2, but you'd have to get it from a foreign supplier.
> 
> The Expo used to be the absolute no-brainer at that price point, but now I'm not so sure. If you do get one, get the mains feed with a rotary pump.
> 
> You could also put up a wanted post with your budget and see what it throws up


The foregin supplier does put me off; I'm happy to have a play myself if something goes wrong but I don't have any experience. Also, I do need something pretty as it will be on display and that La Spaziale doesn't do anything for me (I know, not the best reason to write something off, but that's the way it is!).



NickdeBug said:


> coffeebean had a forum offer available that would beat the BB price by some way - £1050 delivered I think.
> 
> I vaguely recall him posting about Expobar changes to supplier policy a while ago, but maybe worth checking


This deal has ended, I had a good look and I missed out by a few months.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Mike_J_Smith said:


> OK, this is now driving me crazy. I'm an impatient guy and need to get a new espresso machine to replace my cheap, now broken, machine. I had purchased a machine on here, but that fell through as it developed a fault. I have a wanted ad for an Expobar Dual Boiler / something similar, but it seems these machines don't come up that often.
> 
> I'm thinking of going for new, but that doesn't put much in my budget range (£800). So I'm thinking of upping the budget to cover an Expobar Dual Boiler from Bella Barista; this would be on a credit card so not a general budget for used items. I can't make myself wait for a couple of months to have the cash available and/or for the right thing to come up second hand.
> 
> ...


Machina Espresso have the reservoir only dual boiler in stock - feel free to drop an email to [email protected].


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## Larzzus (Apr 29, 2015)

I bought the Expobar Dual Boiler along with a new grinder and the service from BB was excellent but most of all the espresso machine is first class. Consistent temperature, ability to steam milk and pour espresso at the same time. What more would a coffee loving boy need?

Seriously though I'm mightily impressed with my machine and I'm just using the reservoir at the moment and only one issue where I didn't check it and it stops. Wholly recommended, you won't be disappointed. I can now make 4 flat whites without filling the boiler or waiting for the water to heat up.

Stu


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

NickdeBug said:


> coffeebean had a forum offer available that would beat the BB price by some way - £1050 delivered I think.
> 
> I vaguely recall him posting about Expobar changes to supplier policy a while ago, but maybe worth checking


Expobar, I believe, have followed Rocket and will only supply machines to authorised dealers, to stop people from just buying the odd one on the grey market and devaluing their product

Perhaps Andy can comment?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The thing is, if you visit a retailer who actually have a stock of machines, you can touch feel and play. It might be after a demonstration, that you feel machine a is now a better bet than machine b.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Larzzus said:


> What more would a coffee loving boy need?


Something that doesn't rattle when the pump is on #jokes

If you know what you want then fine, order abroad/online etc but if you want to try various machines out then it's BB for you really


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Mike_J_Smith said:


> This is my thinking. May take the afternoon off tomorrow and pop along.
> 
> The foregin supplier does put me off; I'm happy to have a play myself if something goes wrong but I don't have any experience. Also, I do need something pretty as it will be on display and that La Spaziale doesn't do anything for me (I know, not the best reason to write something off, but that's the way it is!).
> 
> This deal has ended, I had a good look and I missed out by a few months.


It's your money, and you must choose what suits you, but having owned both, iI wouldn't go back to an Expobar. The La Spaziale is superior in every way except, depending on your taste, looks. I now prefer the understated look of it it but I also prefer the slicker and quieter operation and the ability to programme in the variables rather than standing their with scales and a stopwatch.

In some ways the Expo is easier to mend if things go wrong, but I'd also say that things are more likely to go wrong as it is not on the same quality level.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Expobar, I believe, have followed Rocket and will only supply machines to authorised dealers, to stop people from just buying the odd one on the grey market and devaluing their product


Well it doesn't just devalue the product. The resellers:


Support the end user warranty (not the manufacturer), sometimes this warranty can be extended to 2 years by resellers

Should carry spares

Give help and advice to the customer

Offer an ongoing engineering/maintenance service to the customer


Perhaps the manufacturers have also realised that if they need to support the resellers who spend a lot of money on the support and marketing infrastructure. if they don't, it forces them out of the market, or they drop that machine range.....Then all that is left are the box shifters, some of which may/may not have adequate support. These are expensive long term purchases and many customers want to know their reseller is able to support them and likely to be around for years to come.

As for buying from non UK suppliers, sure there is the potential hassle if there is a problem (which happens more often than you think)...but the consideration that we should be supporting our own countries small businesses, especially ones paying tax in the UK.



> It's your money, and you must choose what suits you, but having owned both, iI wouldn't go back to an Expobar. The La Spaziale is superior in every way except, depending on your taste, looks.


As for this statement, I'd be very careful as it's not really quantified....lots of issues with La Spaz machines that the poster is probably unaware of.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Expobar, I believe, have followed Rocket and will only supply machines to authorised dealers, to stop people from just buying the odd one on the grey market and devaluing their product
> 
> Perhaps Andy can comment?


OR it could be just to maintain a price fixing ring as in many other cases:exit:


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> As for buying from non UK suppliers, sure there is the potential hassle if there is a problem (which happens more often than you think)...but the consideration that we should be supporting our own countries small businesses, especially ones paying tax in the UK.


It would be nice if they passed some of the benefit of the falling Euro rate onto the customer though.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> As for this statement, I'd be very careful as it's not really quantified....lots of issues with La Spaz machines that the poster is probably unaware of.


Says the man who made virtually the same statement to me a year ago


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Frank, it is not a case of price fixing. If you are shifting a box, you are not offering anything to anyone. Firms that offer warranties from themselves, carry stock, carry spares, offer advice....all of this has to be paid for, or not as the case may be


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Fact is that the UK is an expensive place to live and work. Its easy enough to take potshots at "rip-off" Britain, I'm as guilty as the next. But....look at your own pay packet. Would you be willing to work for 25% less? We all make a UK wage and are part of the overall system that keeps prices here in the UK inflated over the rest of the world.


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

Thanks for all the input; I'm taking the afternoon off and am on my way to BB! Watch this space ...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> Says the man who made virtually the same statement to me a year ago


You are misquoting me and out of context. There are many issues with all machines and an unqualified "this is best" from someone with little knowledge = you, is not a statement the OP should place too much reliance on. You don't know how he intends to use the machine, what his level of experience is, but feel confident to recommend the "best"option for him? I've been careful not to recommend a machine (or reseller for that matter), because I have no real idea how he intends to use it, or what his needs are....only what he would like to pay and not what he will end up paying. The two are very different numbers as his own research increases his knowledge of what he really wants/needs.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Mike_J_Smith said:


> Thanks for all the input; I'm taking the afternoon off and am on my way to BB! Watch this space ...


This may be an expensive afternoon - youre sure to find something that you like there


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I had an Expo for many years and loved it during that time. It makes good espresso and milk drinks .

Would I have one again? Nope, too much water flushing.

I have defected to the plastic appliance side and empty the drip tray monthly.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> You are misquoting me and out of context. There are many issues with all machines and an unqualified "this is best" from someone with little knowledge = you, is not a statement the OP should place too much reliance on. You don't know how he intends to use the machine, what his level of experience is, but feel confident to recommend the "best"option for him? I've been careful not to recommend a machine (or reseller for that matter), because I have no real idea how he intends to use it, or what his needs are....only what he would like to pay and not what he will end up paying. The two are very different numbers as his own research increases his knowledge of what he really wants/needs.


This " someone with little knowledge " has owned and used daily the Expo and the Spaz daily for well over a year each. Ie. Far more than you.

This "someone with little knowledge" has also been inside (and mended in the case of the Expo) both machines far more than you.

As for having no idea how the OP intends to use the machine, well......I'll have a wild stab in the dark and guess he intends to use it to make coffee.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> If you want a DB and can afford it now then just get one. Go to BB and try out your options.


A dangerous path taking your credit card to BB







.

I've bought stuff from there in the past, they're very knowledgeable and will definitely steer you in the right direction.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Would I have one again? Nope, too much water flushing.


Why is this? I thought dual boilers do not require flushing?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Think I've read somewhere that whilst the Expobar Leva DB has two boilers, it works in a similar way to HX machines? I'm sure some expert will be able to explain why plus go into more detail?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

It has a thermosyphon bringing cold water from the tank via the steam boiler.

It doesn't need flushing, but it does eject a lot of water from the opv with every shot. The end result of this is that if you have the tanked version you can get very fed up of emptying both the reservoir and the drip tray.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Spazbarista said:


> It has a thermosyphon bringing cold water from the tank via the steam boiler.
> 
> It doesn't need flushing, but it does eject a lot of water from the opv with every shot. The end result of this is that if you have the tanked version you can get very fed up of emptying both the reservoir and the drip tray.


Have you ever descaled one ? (silly question)

I shudder at the thought of lemonade water again


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Yeah, and that moment of panic after hours of flushing when that ****ing taste is still there


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Will probably be descaling my Brewtus next week and it's comments such as those above that have lead me to not be looking forward to it, lol!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

They were great machones before they got moved on!


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## kostona (Aug 15, 2014)

Hi guys, I am in similar position as OP. What are the exact differences between the 2 machines (Exboar and La Spaziale)?

And a question to Spazbarista, could you elaborate a bit more on your experience with 2 machines and why the La Spaziale is better in your opnion?


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> They were great machones before they got moved on!


...before they got moved on ? what do you mean please ? I've been looking to buy one but that's got me curious :/


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

kostona said:


> Hi guys, I am in similar position as OP. What are the exact differences between the 2 machines (Exboar and La Spaziale)?
> 
> And a question to Spazbarista, could you elaborate a bit more on your experience with 2 machines and why the La Spaziale is better in your opnion?


Hi Kostona. This could be a very long post and I'm a bit short of time so it might turn into several badly-written posts. I suppose I'd put the differences into several categories, quality of components, build quality, function.

When you open the bonnet of both machines you'll notice that the Expo is a little bit of a pig's ear with some very rough edges. For example everything has been crammed into the tiny space using off-the-shelf components. In some ways it looks a bit amateur, for example the reservoir is some kind of plastic mini-jerry can that has had the handle filed off to make it fit, rather than having something custom made. There is this annoying cut-out switch underneath it that cuts the power when the jerry-can lightens and switches the whole machine off without warning...usually as you are mid-shot. What this leads to is a constant checking of the jerry-can (of course this is not relevant to the plumbed model). Everything looks as if it has been designed to fit a pre-determined space rather than determining the space by the design of the machine. You find you have to start doing little mods straight away like putting a cable tie on the water hoses so that they don't flick out of the reservoir. People end up putting blobs of silicone under the drip tray because the fitting is poor and the vibrations from the pump are really bad. Stupid shit like this that is the hallmark of poor design. In contrast, the Spaz is just so tidy, and in general the parts are of a high quality. It has a really nice rotary pump and the layout is great. It looks purpose built and designed rather than a stream of compromises.

Functionally it is a completely different beast, and in some ways it isn't entirely fair to compare. The Expo is an E61 machine and so is fully manual. You load the porta, pull up the lever then drop it after timing the shot for the volume you want. There is a sort of pre-infusion as whatever is in the e61 chamber drops down as a trickle before the pump kicks in, but on the Spaz it is user-determined including the length. The Spaz is volumetric, so you set the output volume you want and it sticks to it religiously. You load the porta, press a button and your work is over. You initially have to do the same work as for the Expo, but you only have to do it once in the initial set up. Also you have two dose settings so most people set one for single and one for double.

You can still change the temperature, as on the Expo, but I have found it very reliable, unlike the Expo. My temperature probe failed. On speaking to the engineers at Expobar UK, they told me that their biggest spare parts bin was for temperature probes. But there were other things about the Expo that were erratic. I occaisonally had to fiddle with the OPV as the pressure started to fluctuate. I think the OPV had unwound itself from the vibrations. By contrast the Spaz has been rock solid. To be fair though, if an Expo develops a fault it is probably easier to solve yourself (than the Spaz) given the ready availability of generic parts and the wealth of expertise available via google

I liked my Expo at the time, its kind of quirky, but after a year of the Spaz I wouldn't ever go back to those quirks. I'd just find them really annoying. I think at one time you couldn't do better for the money which is why they are so popular, but the market has moved on in the last couple of years and now I'm not so sure.

The coffee from the Spaz tastes better too.


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## Larzzus (Apr 29, 2015)

Spazbarista said:


> It has a thermosyphon bringing cold water from the tank via the steam boiler.
> 
> It doesn't need flushing, but it does eject a lot of water from the opv with every shot. The end result of this is that if you have the tanked version you can get very fed up of emptying both the reservoir and the drip tray.


I make at least 3 or 4 milk drinks a day and I fill the reservoir up once in the morning and that lasts the day. I don't believe it has ever run below half if I do this. I usually empty the drip tray around once a day. It does seem to run a lot of water out the, excuse the technical jargon, drippy thing at the back of the tray area.

I love it and it hasn't cause me any issues that I regret buying it.

Stu


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Olliehulla said:


> ...before they got moved on ? what do you mean please ? I've been looking to buy one but that's got me curious :/


They are a great value for money machine, they produce great results on the cup, those that are commenting also thought they were good before they moved on to other machines. One factor that may be of influence is that at present no VST baskets exist for the la spaz, if it were me I would get the rotary version though and plumb it in


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Oh and the spaz is ugly


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Remember, this is a forum. People are just offering their experience. DO not buy something based on that. DO the leg work and try your machines out. That is why there is such a variance on the market. What one person thinks is a nice coffee might be poisonous to another person, so take anything anyone says,including me, with a pinch of salt


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Oh and the spaz is ugly


Yeah we have that photo of him


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Remember, this is a forum. People are just offering their experience. DO not buy something based on that. DO the leg work and try your machines out. That is why there is such a variance on the market. What one person thinks is a nice coffee might be poisonous to another person, so take anything anyone says,including me, with a pinch of salt


You put salt in your coffee ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

All the time. I thought everyone did that


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yeah we have that photo of him


Yes and now you don't have to be responsible you can post it up


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Oh and the spaz is ugly


Just to demonstrate its personal opinion we're doing here, I much prefer the La Spaz shape & professional look.

Far better than a square/rectangular lump of soulless Stainless Steel.

.....and I've owned both.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ronsil said:


> Just to demonstrate its personal opinion we're doing here, I much prefer the La Spaz shape & professional look.
> 
> Far better than a square/rectangular lump of soulless Stainless Steel.
> 
> .....and I've owned both.


I was referring to spaz barista? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess, both will do a good job


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just for clarity, i am not saying people are not entitled to their opinion. I am saying if you buy something based on someone's else's, you might regret it. How many la spaz are there in the forum compared to the expobar but does that make one better than the other?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Just for clarity, i am not saying people are not entitled to their opinion. I am saying if you buy something based on someone's else's, you might regret it. How many la spaz are there in the forum compared to the expobar but does that make one better than the other?


If you go to a show room , you get to try them out , you are still being influenced by the sales man' patter and opinion , even by " the range " they stock or don't stock ....

So it's impossible not to buy based on others....it's just finding the right others to listen to ....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> I was referring to spaz barista? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess, both will do a good job


Didn't everyone know Ron owned Spaz?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ron is an "OL G"


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Just for clarity, I am not saying people are not entitled to their opinion. I am saying if you buy something based on someone else's, you might regret it.


Having done that myself, I'd certainly go along with your recommendation that a buyer should try and get a demo plus even hands-on with a machine prior to purchasing one rather than choosing one purely based on other people's opinion or what they have read on-line.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

... so who gave you my credentials:angel:?


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

Rightio, first of all thanks for the advice, I had a manic morning at work then straight to BB so didn't read in detail but I think I got the jist of it - do what you want; do what I say; listen to peoples advice; don't listen to people's advice, especially not his - Jokes of course







, genuine thanks for responding, always interesting for a newbie.

After spending some time with Marco, I'm now the proud owner of an Expobar Leva DB. Had a play with a few machines, loved the Rockets for looks but kept coming back to the Expobar which Marco did me a nice deal on as well as chucking in a few extras, some extra extras! and a rocket naked porter filter at cost.

Excellent service and very honest advice, as others have said no hard sell. They set it up while I was there so I could see it working etc which was a nice touch.

Got the machine home and ran through the flushing process, thought i'd broke it after 5 minutes but it had just run low on water - numpty!

Haven't made anything drinkable yet, but I've just been messing around with some old beans. Looking forward to attempting something better tomorrow. And now forum members, await my dumb questions!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Vibration or rotary pump version?


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

Vibration. They prewarned me about the noise quite a bit and I was expecting something motorbike like, but to be honest it isn't loud at all apart from the first main boiler fill. There is a bit of vibration noise from the cup warmer top plate, which I may need to look at.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Excellent machine. Good espresso around the corner for sure. ️


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Oh and the spaz is ugly


I don't think that's politically correct these days


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Well done, Brewtus is a great machine.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Being a Brewtus user I feel I can congratulate you on a great purchase, look forward to much enjoyment.

Ian


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Vibration or rotary pump version?


BB won't sell the rotary version because they say it's a nightmare to descale


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Its a nightmare to descale whichever pump you have


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Chockymonster said:


> BB won't sell the rotary version because they say it's a nightmare to descale


But you would be running it from a filtered water supply


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## Chockymonster (Jan 21, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> But you would be running it from a filtered water supply


If you plumbed it in properly, I agree.

Does a filtered supply = no need to descale ever?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Chockymonster said:


> If you plumbed it in properly, I agree.
> 
> Does a filtered supply = no need to descale ever?


Not really no, because you need some mineral content in the water otherwise the coffee tastes gash.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Chockymonster said:


> BB won't sell the rotary version because they say it's a nightmare to descale


garydyke had the vibe pump and he tells tales of descaling round the campfire to scare people


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> garydyke had the vibe pump and he tells tales of descaling round the campfire to scare people


I couldn't sleep for a week after that camping trip.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mike_J_Smith said:


> Vibration. They prewarned me about the noise quite a bit and I was expecting something motorbike like, but to be honest it isn't loud at all apart from the first main boiler fill. There is a bit of vibration noise from the cup warmer top plate, which I may need to look at.


There is nothing wrong with the Vibe pump version, possibly slightly better for you in some ways. Slower pressure ramp, much cheaper to replace and in domestic use, life similar to rotary pump....without that VERY expensive motor, if it fails. It helps to actually go look at the machines and I always think it's better to physically transport the machine yourself. It makes a decent espresso and should give you many years service.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

And better for bella barista


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Be careful of DavecUK's advice.

It is far from impartial.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What bollocks you two speak at times.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You're right. Lets look at things objectively.

There's no way the rotary pump or the La Spaz could be better (because BB don't sell them)


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## coffeefanatic (Jun 3, 2015)

Put of the decision till xmas, and then you know you will have the spare cash by then, and just buy a new one. For a big decision like this best to wait, as something might show up in between now and then,


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> You're right. Lets look at things objectively.
> 
> There's no way the rotary pump or the La Spaz could be better (because BB don't sell them)


Who says BB do not sell the rotary version?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Who says BB do not sell the rotary version?


They weren't selling it in Nov last year when I was looking at a Brewtus. They were pro vibe and anti rotary. I'm sure they didn't like the rotary as it wasn't tank fed and had to be plumbed in.

Both are really good in my mind.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Who says BB do not sell the rotary version?


Their website, people on here


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

They stock the vibe model which can be tank fed or plumbed. I am pretty certain if you want a rotary they will get it for you which is vastly different to not supplying one as a business decision


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Is the rotary version less reliable? Or is simply down to the potential cost of replacement IF something were to go wrong?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The cost should not bean issue,as within the warranty period of 2 years, Exposer supply the parts to BB. Outside of the warranty period, who cares?


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> The cost should not bean issue,as within the warranty period of 2 years, Exposer supply the parts to BB. Outside of the warranty period, who cares?


Exposer?







Autocorrect strikes again.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:



> They stock the vibe model which can be tank fed or plumbed. I am pretty certain if you want a rotary they will get it for you which is vastly different to not supplying one as a business decision


They weren't willing when I spoke them last year. There were a number of reasons which I forget the details of, but maybe things have changed since then.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I still have my vibe pump brewtus Mk3. The only reason I changed up was to get variable pressure profiles. I've used it for five or so years and had to replace the vibe pump at about the four year mark. That was a quick call into BB (always fun) and then they shipped it back. Can't remember the cost but I certainly did not feel it was an expensive repair and the box was packed with beans not wadding.

The Brewtus makes dependably good coffee. I think Jeebsy even used his on his stall for a bit. I did think about selling mine but decided to keep it and put it on the boat instead.

IMO You've made a sound purchase from a retailer that will back it up properly.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've also had a great experience with BB. When I had a small crack on my Mignon's hopper they let me bring it back and swap it over without a quibble.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> What bollocks you two speak at times.


<chuckle>, I only saw the quoted comments, because I tend to keep those 2 on my ignore list....however the comments of those with only a little knowledge, always amuse.







</chuckle>

I thgink the OP made a good choice and he should be happy with it...as always swings and roundabouts.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> <chuckle>, I only saw the quoted comments, because I tend to keep those 2 on my ignore list....however the comments of those with only a little knowledge, always amuse.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wouldn't laugh too much,pal.

You've got fewer fans round here than you think.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Come on folks. Be nice. Please!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Scarper! It's the cops!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Lol!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

It's anarchy since boots stepped down.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I know. You've said naughty words.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Define naughty!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Words I won't use at my 3 year old.







Please ignore me and carry on.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Nothing to see here folks. Please move along


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> I wouldn't laugh too much,pal.
> 
> You've got fewer fans round here than you think.


Don't hate the player, a man's got to keep himself in grinders and machines somehow


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm sure I'm on peoples ignore lists as well - don't lose any sleep.

Back on topic please


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Glenn said:


> I'm sure I'm on peoples ignore lists as well - don't lose any sleep.
> 
> Back on topic please


Who said that


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Who said what?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Who's on one....what's on two.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Who's on first.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It's the way I tell em! .....Wrong


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

What's on second!

I don't know.

Third Base!


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

I memorised that routine as a child. My parents came to hate it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Glenn said:


> I'm sure I'm on peoples ignore lists as well - don't lose any sleep.
> 
> Back on topic please


I tried, but the forum software would let me...moderators and admins are immune


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

So this thread went a bit off piste!

I've spent the weekend playing when I've had a chance. So far I've pulled some good shots, to me anyway they were the best espresso I've had so that's a good start, but things are far from consistent. I'm going to order a couple of kilos of a particular coffee rather than having lots of 250g bags of different types as at least that will be one consistent thing.

I've found that with 22g in the naked portafilter, I can get a nice cup (40ish grams out in 25ish seconds - my timing skills need improving though!). Nowhere near perfect, but I was happy. The drops form around the edge, move in to form a single stream - very pretty! and I'm guessing this is a good sign for my prep and tamping?

But 18g in the double seems harder, I'm finding that as I dial in the grind I get 35-40g in 25 seconds but it doesn't start until 9 seconds then comes out fast and tastes sour. Any ideas on why this would be? Is the double basket that comes with the machine ok for 18g?

I've also made a nice latte, but decent 'microfoam' milk will have to be another lesson for another day!

Perhaps some home training would be a good idea, I've seen people on here who do it, any idea if anyone would cover High Wycombe, Bucks?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I think Glenn would cover high Wycombe?

P.s. Thanks for the update and glad the random leftfieldness dissipated because I was confused.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Which grinder are you currently using (sorry if you've already mentioned this but a quick read through, I didn't see anything)?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the stock basket would be approx 16g. 28g might be a bit over kill.

I'd look to grind finer for the standard double basket. Dose 16g and see how you get on.

Shot starting on the outside could be a bit of dough nutting, but I still get shots like that (off and on). Some beans are more forgiving than others. 2kg of on type is a good idea though. When I first started out I did a kilo in about 2 days.

If you get training from Glenn you'll be flying.


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Which grinder are you currently using (sorry if you've already mentioned this but a quick read through, I didn't see anything)?


It's a Eureka Mignon, its new to me too so I'm learning to use that as well.



urbanbumpkin said:


> I think the stock basket would be approx 16g. 28g might be a bit over kill.
> 
> I'd look to grind finer for the standard double basket. Dose 16g and see how you get on.
> 
> ...


Cheers, i'll try going down to 16g. Going to order 2kgs for the weekend. Is it best just to PM Glenn?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mike_J_Smith said:


> Is it best just to PM Glenn?


Yes.

Something worth considering would be upgrading the stock baskets to VST ones.

Also which tamper are you using? Something 58.4mm or bigger such as a Torr TI 58.55mm are a very good fit for VST's and do make a noticeable difference.


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Yes.
> 
> Something worth considering would be upgrading the stock baskets to VST ones.
> 
> Also which tamper are you using? Something 58.4mm or bigger such as a Torr TI 58.55mm are a very good fit for VST's and do make a noticeable difference.


I picked up a 58mm made by knock tamper from a sales tread here. No experience of others, but fit seems ok although it could be tighter. I'd guess my technique is worse than my equipment at the moment!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I wouldn't worry too much about the brand of tamper, but there are a couple of things worth upgrading on the standard Expobar..... The baskets, and the portafilter. Baskets first, go VST, and then when you are a bit flush stump up for a decent portafilter.

As for shots, your double was under extracted, hence the fast sour pour. Grind finer.

Get a kilo of something easy to extract like Union Foundation, and stick to it in order to learn your way into the machine. Avoid Hasbean for the time being as lighter brighter coffees dont take prisoners when it comes to extraction. Change one variable at a time or you'll find it hard to get a feel for it.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Spazbarista said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the brand of tamper, but there are a couple of things worth upgrading on the standard Expobar..... The baskets, and the portafilter. Baskets first, go VST, and then when you are a bit flush stump up for a decent portafilter.


Thats interesting, why do you say get a decent portafilter?

OP what temp are you brewing at and have you reduced to brew pressure down? that made a big difference to my coffee


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## Mike_J_Smith (May 21, 2015)

New baskets mentioned a couple of times, so I'll look into that. Thanks for the coffee recommendation, I was going to ask. We have Union at work and I wasn't impressed really but no idea which blend they buy. What would a portafilter upgrade give, and what would it be to? Not planning any major purchases for a while though!

I have it set to 94c and Bella Barista set it to 9 bar.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes Row said:


> Thats interesting, why do you say get a decent portafilter?


Something with a bit more mass, bit more heat retention. Having said that, I don't think I ever got round to upgrading my portafilters on the expo, even though they were a little bit on the crappy side. I did upgrade on the machine I had before and was surprised at the difference.



Mike_J_Smith said:


> New baskets mentioned a couple of times, so I'll look into that. Thanks for the coffee recommendation, I was going to ask. We have Union at work and I wasn't impressed really but no idea which blend they buy. What would a portafilter upgrade give, and what would it be to? Not planning any major purchases for a while though!
> 
> I have it set to 94c and Bella Barista set it to 9 bar.


For coffee, I'd just break your teeth on a single bean or blend that is easy to extract and stick with it for a while. That way you'll dial everything in and start to notice how the things you do change the coffee. So, I'd suggest the medium dark to dark stuff like Union Foundation or revelation, or most of the heavier Coffee Compass stuff.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Just about to get an Expobar. Why do people upgrade to vst? What's the difference to stock?


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## jonathanhook (Apr 25, 2015)

The VST is supposed to have precision drilled holes that give more even water flow through the coffee, and therefore better extraction and taste. They are very highly rated on here, home barista and by "the pros" like Matt Perger.

I use an 18g VST with my Expobar DB for a simpler reason, there's room for a higher dose, without hitting the shower screen.

If you are going to buy a bigger basket to experiment with higher doses, it would seem to make sense to go for a VST.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

I have a DB Expobar & 18g & 20g VST Baskets using a naked/bottomless portafiller with excellent results. The VST do make a difference & the 18g works well in the standard portafiller. I also changed the standard shower screen to an IMS competition. The IMS/VST combination works brilliantly producing a beautiful thick crema.


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