# Changes to coffee after cleaning Mazzer mini E



## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

Hi all,

I gave my Mazzer mini E a clean out the other day; admittedly after leaving it a little longer than I should. Since then I've had to set the coffee grinder twice as fine as I was before. Also, I've noticed clumping appearing in the coffee (I wasn't looking for this before but I've since learnt a lot from the other guys on this forum and now notice it). The other thing is that the taste in the coffee now seems more muted than it was before.

The shot is pulling fine and I'm still getting a good crema - its 20s for a decaf shot.

Below is a pic of the grind results where you can see the clumping. Is this normal for the grinder or is this a sign the burrs have started to wear? Is it normal after cleaning for the depth of characteristics of the coffee to drop a little initially?

Many thanks,

Andrew


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Could it be that you have changed the zero point of your grinder when you took the burrs off to clean

So grind setting 5 isnt grind setting 5 anymore ...

Or is this not possible with a mazer?


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

I don't think so. when you unscrew the top, I turned it to the zero mark and undid the screw. From there you have to turn it clockwise to unscrew the top. When I put it back, I placed it in the same position and then turned it anti-clockwise to screw it back on. Everything seems in the right position. I was wondering if the lower grind setting may have been due to the clumps of coffee that was left in there?

What do you make of the clumping though? I never looked at this before as I didn't realise it was a problem until you educated me on grinder quality. Is this just normal static or is this a sign of the burrs needing replacing? the burrs are a good few years old now and the flat edge is starting to look shiny.

kr,

Andrew


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mini Es clump. Can't speak for your previous results but your picture above looks fairly typical.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Grinding finer can lead to clumpier coffee especially with an on demand grinder and the metal funnel and static....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Are you still just filling your basket to the top and levelling?


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

No, I never fill to the top and just level. I always tamper (NSEW) and turn so that the compressed coffee puck is level with the crease of the basket (about 0.5cm below the top).


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

Thanks MrBoots2u. That makes sense. I guess this is one of the areas the E10OD will improve?

I've just ordered a bottomless portafilter so I'll get to see the imperfections pretty quickly.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ive not used the compak grinders..

Its my suspicion that given the right conditions - atmosphere ,too fine grind , type of coffee , that all on demand grinders can and will clump ( dose too but then get broken up in the doer ) ...but I'm sure others who have used allot more of them than me will be able to give specific yes or no ....

Clumping is only really a problem is the resulting drinks isnt to your taste....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

SO how much are you dosing into your basket?


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

I've never weighed, but I fill up to the line on the portafilter as shown in the pic. It always seems to work just fine. Less and I get silting, more and it overfills and causes the extraction to take to long.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Don't want to be a party pooper but you should start weighing.


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

You're probably right, but I don't yet own a set of scales that will measure down to such small values.

So what weights of coffee should I be looking for when putting in and getting out?

many thanks,

Andrew


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Depends on the coffee and the size of your basket but doses can be anywhere from 14-21g in. Output is 1.6-2x your input again depending on the coffee and your tastes.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

A 6 quid set of scales would probably be a more worthwhile investment than a new grinder at this stage


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

I have some scales that will only measure to the nearest gm. My basket came out at 22gms and the pour was just right. I'm not sure what this gives me though? I've filled to the same level as I always do and I'm highly unlikely to weigh the coffee each time I pull a shot.

I've been told that upgrading my grinder from the Mazzer to something like the Caedo or Compak will improve my coffee considerably. Do we all agree? I'm not going to shell out £1500 if this is not the case. I do have a good palate btw I can detect slight differences in the shot. At the moment, since cleaning, I feel like I've lost some of the depth in the coffee. Its almost as if the dark chocolate has now become milk chocolate. there's a definite drop in acidity too.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Weigh your basket, tare the scales, fill your basket with a typical dose then weigh it again. That's your input

Weigh your cup, tare, then pull your drink and see what the drink weighs. That's your output.

You don't have to do this every time but it's useful to check you're in the ballpark. If you're enjoying the drink you might well be, but it really helps consistency.


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

Thanks Jeesby. I just pulled another shot - exactly 22gms again. 21s pour and the shot is exactly right. I put in 20gms of beans but clearly I had a good 2gms or more left in the grinder. I've not weighed the cup afterwards, but I do know from experience when it's come through too slow or too fast - not just from the time, but from the level in the cup.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Level of the cup (volume) isn't reliable as the crema will affect it. Weigh your output too. If that's a stock basket 20g is probably too much. 21 secs is also a bit quick for your shot - tighten the grind a bit. Aim for 25-30 secs.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

andshill7 said:


> View attachment 11209
> 
> 
> I've never weighed, but I fill up to the line on the portafilter as shown in the pic. It always seems to work just fine. Less and I get silting, more and it overfills and causes the extraction to take to long.


As you are discovering weighing will really help

Different coffee at different grind setting will dose more or less in your basket ( if you are using the line to measure to )

I dint know if the grinder will make a difference to your shots or not , that will in part coming down to your technique ( i would suggest weighing out as jeebsy suggest )

Again extracting your coffee to a eye line in the cup will give different amounts , and different extraction ratios ( therefore different taste ) depending on how much crema different beans produce or even how much crema is produced as the bean ages......weighing brings the consistency Jeebsy talks about

Re the grinder upgrade......take your machine to foundry and get them to pull some shots with the compaks , thats the only real way you will know if it will be worth the cash or not....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Also are you single dosing?


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

The reason for 20s is that I only drink decaf these days and you always extract a good 5s less for decaf than you do for caffeinated. 25-30 is too long for decaf and will over extract. I am wondering though if I should grind a little finer and press less hard?


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

double dosing if there is such a term? I put in enough for a double shot or 2 double shots.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Decaf does blond earlier but try tightening your grind and make the shot take a bit longer.

If you single dose you're wasting a lot of money on fancy electronics with an on demand imo


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

thinking about this some more. Maybe I should grind finer and drop the dosage - see how 23-25s works on the decaf? I'll give it a go.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Which Decaff is it. All the ones I've ever tried (2 of them) I've had to grind really fine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

andshill7 said:


> thinking about this some more. Maybe I should grind finer and drop the dosage - see how 23-25s works on the decaf? I'll give it a go.


If you dint like the taste

it would be helpful to understand what the brew ratio is at the moment and they how we can adjust it to make it tastier...

You could end up going finer and if you dont know how much coffee your getting out end up at the same brew ratio and not improve the taste...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Weigh your input AND output please


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

I use CoffeeReal coffees. My mainstay is the El Salvador, but I also use the Peruvian, Guatemalan and Ethiopian. All decaf. In fact I've had them all


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

The taste is good, don't get me wrong, it's just that I've lost some of the depth. It's almost as if its a weaker coffee now. I have a bottomless PF arriving tomorrow so when I get home on Thursday I'll give this a go - this should highlight any issues I have.

Do you measure the beans before and after grinding, or do you also weigh the shot?


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

will do - will respond back on Thursday now for this.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Strength can be effect by brew ratio

Weigh the coffee in the pf after grinding -

Weight the amount of liquid espresso also


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## andshill7 (Jan 6, 2015)

I would have thought the OD was the right way otherwise you're allowing extra coffee to sit around in a dispenser aren't you?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The point of an on demand grinder is that you set it to run for a certain amount of time which in theory gives you the same weight of beans each time (give or take a small amount). Single dosing on them changes things slightly.

For now aim to have say 18g of ground coffee in your basket and then weigh the coffee as it pours. Aim to get around 25-28g out in 27-30 seconds.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

andshill7 said:


> I would have thought the OD was the right way otherwise you're allowing extra coffee to sit around in a dispenser aren't you?


Not if you're just grinding what you need, which is what you're doing when single dosing


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Either:-

weigh the beans and single dose

Or weigh grinds in the basket.

AND Weigh the shot.

Sounds like witchcraft but it really worked for me.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Either:-
> 
> weigh the beans and single dose


If you do this you should do something to 'purge' your grinder of retained grinds before/after


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> If you do this you should do something to 'purge' your grinder of retained grinds before/after


Good point Jeebs, forgot it was a Mazzer mini e.


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