# Wilfa svart grinder & v60



## J_Fo

Hi, just got myself a V60 & a Wilfa Svart grinder & was wondering where people with the same set up tend to have the grinder set?

My brews were taking nearly 5 minutes so I've been making the grind coarser... Gone from the 1st R in Aeropress to the A of Aeropress & just gone down a few clicks more but still taking over 4 & a half minutes...

The dialling in is incredibly satisfying, I love discovering the taste of a new cup but I'm on 4 for the day already so thought it might be an idea to ask I case I'm waaaay out..

Thanks guys, this is my first post so apologies if it's in the wrong place or doesn't make sense..


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## GingerBen

I'm in the 'aero' range for all my brews at the moment. I don't have many v60's under my belt but I've not had to go coarser than the 'a'. I imagine it would flood through at that grind.

Whats your pouring technique?


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## J_Fo

Hey man, thanks for getting back to me. I've only been using the V60 for a day so firstly I'd say my technique is a work in progress! I've watched lots of YouTube & read lots of blogs/forum posts etc & at the moment I'm following the steps as suggested on the Union Coffee website.

15g of coffee to 250g water.

Water just off boil.

Rinse filter.

Bloom for 30 with 50g water.

Agitate grinds to make sure they're all wet.

Add 100g water at 30

50g at 60

50g at 90.

I'm trying to circle outward with the pour, avoiding the very edges. It looks like it's going OK (looks more like the videos than I thought it would...) but obviously taking a couple of minutes too long to filter through completely...


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## Beth71

What filters are using? I found with the V60 ones made in Holland my brews were taking way longer than when I used the V60 papers made in Japan - not sure whether others have experienced that. I have a Wilfa grinder too and have had to go coarser than the Aeropress settings on occasion.


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## J_Fo

That's good to know about the filters, thank you, I've got the Japanese ones but I'll bear that in mind...

I'll try another in a while with a slightly coarser grind and report back!

Any more tips/thoughts very appreciated.


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## GingerBen

Normal kettle or gooseneck? @MWJB is the brewing troubleshooting master so hopefully he might be able to help


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## StusBrews

If grind size isn't the issue, then too much turbulence of the coffee bed is usually the culprit of long drain times. It can cause the paper filter to become clogged.

A gooseneck kettle will help control the pours. Don't gush the water in, but let it fall vertically from the spout.

A flow restrictor in the gooseneck kettle will also help steady your pours with less effort.

Some of us use an Aeropress cap with the metal able disc filter in place and pour through this. It acts like a shower head and helps disburse the water more gently over the coffee bed.


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## J_Fo

GingerBen said:


> Normal kettle or gooseneck? @MWJB is the brewing troubleshooting master so hopefully he might be able to help


Gooseneck (Bonavita).

Aah excellent stuff, fingers crossed!


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## J_Fo

Cheers dude, clogged paper filter sounds like something I could be suffering from, I'm sure there are too many grinds left up the sides of the filter away from the "puck" when I'm drained.

Just dialled the machine to the last r in filter and made another cup, down to 4 mins so better but If bad technique can cause long pouring times then it's probably that...


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## AdzJackson

Hi, I was finding myself in the Filter range of my Wilfa with wild drainage times for my V60, found that temperature was my problem, I was boiling the kettle then transferring it to a separate jug for pouring in.

I'm now pouring straight from my kettle, straight off the boil (not gooseneck but surprisingly good control) and my times are bang on the 3 min mark and that's in the Aeropress range on the Wilfa.

Also I think the Wilfa needed quite a few beans through it to settle down, I always grind any old beans through it just to season the burrs a bit more and it seems to be getting a lot more consistent!

Hope these random findings help









Adam


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## MWJB

Jon_Foster said:


> Gooseneck (Bonavita).
> 
> Aah excellent stuff, fingers crossed!


5min average sounds too long for your method.

Are you using the Japanese made, tab-less white papers?

Try 14.5g coffee.

Bloom water should be just as the kettle clicks off boil...if you preheat/rinse (I don't), you may want to reboil between rinse & bloom. Don't overfill the kettle as it will make gentle pouring hard, maybe ~350g of brew water would be good.

Bloom with 30g, stir (more of a dig & wiggle) quickly & briefly to wet, leave til 0:30

0:30 pour up to 65g, water should drip straight down from kettle spout, not come out like water out of a hose, in an arc. Don't worry about hitting the edges of the paper, cover the whole bed, each pour takes ~10sec.

0:50 pour up to 100g, as above

1:10 pour up to 135g

1:30 pour up to 170g

1:50 pour up to 205g

2:10 pour up to 240g

Grind so that dry bed occurs around 3:05 to 3:15 (+/- 20s, some coffees will be fast, others slow & is totally normal, you don't need them all to hit 3:15 exactly, this is around the average you should see over a range of them.)

Wait about 40sec for drips to slow.


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## J_Fo

Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful!

I've realised the filters I'm using actually are the ones made in Holland.. I also have some Japanese made unbleached ones, any thoughts on these?

I've also got some Japanese made unbleached ones for a size one V60 (I've been using a size 2 but have a size 1 as well) so I'll give them a go today.

I've upped my water temp from 94 to 100, worked on my technique a bit and am getting a 4 minute brew with my original recipe with the grinder set to the first r in aeropress so definitely improving!

Thanks so much for your help and recipe MWJB, I've stuck to my original for now so I could see what difference just changing the temp would make but I'll try using yours now.

Thanks again guys, any thoughts on filters gratefully received!

Update:

Think I've worked out the main problem









I used the japanese made filters in my 01 size V60 and the water dripped through much faster, made a cup i about 2 and a half minutes (grinder set to first r in aeropress still).

Definite problem with the filters made in Holland (these ones for the record)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-Paper-Filter-Dripper-White/dp/B00ZHBYQU2/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1514375620&sr=1-1&keywords=v60+filter+02

I'm about to order these..

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-VCF-02-100W-1-Piece-Coffee-Filter/dp/B001U7EOYA/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1514369254&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=v60+filter+holder

.. but notice MWJB mentioned tab-less filters (these appear to have tabs).

Could you guys post me a link me to the filters you use?

Thanks again


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## MWJB

Jon_Foster said:


> I'll order some bleached Japanese ones today, I notice there are 2 types on Amazon, is there one I should go for?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-VCF-02-100W-1-Piece-Coffee-Filter/dp/B001U7EOYA/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1514369254&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=v60+filter+holder
> 
> or
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hario-VCF-02-100MK-1-Piece-Dripper-Misarashi/dp/B0029PVRXS/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1514369254&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=v60+filter+holder
> 
> Thanks again guys, any thoughts on filters gratefully received!


Use the white filters in the first link, the Misasrashi (2nd link) filters are unbleached.


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## J_Fo

Thanks man, was just editing the post! Used your brew method and along with the other filters it was top. Nice one.


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## MediumRoastSteam

About the Wilfa grinder.... what's the retention like?


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## salty

MediumRoastSteam said:


> About the Wilfa grinder.... what's the retention like?


Very little and not enough to worry about. I used to weigh in and out but so minimal I don't bother now. Even when I deep clean it and give it a good old shake, brush and vacuum there's very little old stuff there


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## MediumRoastSteam

salty said:


> Very little and not enough to worry about. I used to weigh in and out but so minimal I don't bother now. Even when I deep clean it and give it a good old shake, brush and vacuum there's very little old stuff there


Would you say this is good enough for a Moka Pot?


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## salty

Definitely! Works well across the brewed spectrum. It's a total pleasure to use, small footprint, easy to clean, good quality grind. Great value too. Honestly don't think you'd be disappointed


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## MediumRoastSteam

salty said:


> Definitely! Works well across the brewed spectrum. It's a total pleasure to use, small footprint, easy to clean, good quality grind. Great value too. Honestly don't think you'd be disappointed


I watched a video by James Hoffmann and that pretty much did the deal in buying the Wilfa. So users here keep beans in the hopper and use the timer or single dose it?


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## salty

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I watched a video by James Hoffmann and that pretty much did the deal in buying the Wilfa. So users here keep beans in the hopper and use the timer or single dose it?


I single dose which is what I think James Hoffman recommends and Tim Wendelboe does in all his videos where he uses the Wilfa. Pretty low retention so it's a good way to go and allows you to swap between beans, including decaf, for brewed.


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## MediumRoastSteam

salty said:


> Definitely! Works well across the brewed spectrum. It's a total pleasure to use, small footprint, easy to clean, good quality grind. Great value too. Honestly don't think you'd be disappointed


Hi Salty,

How do you find the grind size consistency? On mine, if find I get boulders - very coarse grind particles amongst the finer ones which are the majority - when I try to grind at aeropress or filter range. How's it for you?

I just want to make sure I haven't got a lemon.

Thank you.


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## MWJB

Burr grinders all produce fines & boulders, at all settings.

It's pretty hard to determine consistency by eye. Let's say you ground at 400um average (fine brewed, coarse espresso), it's likely that there will still be a few particles as big as 1600um, certainly a good few over 1200um.

If you think the grind is too coarse overall, go finer. For the grind to be abnormal, your grinder would have to be broken, this should be fairly obvious.


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## MediumRoastSteam

MWJB said:


> Burr grinders all produce fines & boulders, at all settings.
> 
> It's pretty hard to determine consistency by eye. Let's say you ground at 400um average (fine brewed, coarse espresso), it's likely that there will still be a few particles as big as 1600um, certainly a good few over 1200um.
> 
> If you think the grind is too coarse overall, go finer. For the grind to be abnormal, your grinder would have to be broken, this should be fairly obvious.


That's an example. To me, they are abnormally coarser than the rest.

What do you think?


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## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's an example. To me, they are abnormally coarser than the rest.
> 
> What do you think?.


Like I said, hard to say from looking, pretty much impossible to draw solid conclusions. Yes, some particles are much coarser than the rest (this is normal, could be the last few bits through the burrs might settle down with use), but how much of the ground weight are they?

Grind overall looks coarse? What brewer/size brews are you using this for?


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## MediumRoastSteam

MWJB said:


> Like I said, hard to say from looking, pretty much impossible to draw solid conclusions. Yes, some particles are much coarser than the rest (this is normal, could be the last few bits through the burrs might settle down with use), but how much of the ground weight are they?
> 
> Grind overall looks coarse? What brewer/size brews are you using this for?


Thanks, that was just a test, and that's in the aeropress range. That's a sample of a 16g dose. I'm mainly worried about the different in sizes at the moment. I only had the grinder for two days so far, so early days. I was using that for v60, but I feel that I need to grind finer than that.


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## AdzJackson

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Thanks, that was just a test, and that's in the aeropress range. That's a sample of a 16g dose. I'm mainly worried about the different in sizes at the moment. I only had the grinder for two days so far, so early days. I was using that for v60, but I feel that I need to grind finer than that.


Hey, I found at first my Wilfa did a similar thing but now I've used it for a couple of months it seems to have calmed down, think it just needed bedding in!

Adam


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## salty

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi Salty,
> 
> How do you find the grind size consistency? On mine, if find I get boulders - very coarse grind particles amongst the finer ones which are the majority - when I try to grind at aeropress or filter range. How's it for you?
> 
> I just want to make sure I haven't got a lemon.
> 
> Thank you.


Definitely not been my experience overall.

I've just ground two samples. The first is the finer setting, the second (on the right) is at a coarser setting










The guidance that's out there (James Hoffman, Tim Wendelboe and Workshop http:// https://workshopcoffee.com/blogs/journal/83014913-wilfa-grinder?utm_source=WorkshopCoffee.com&utm_campaign=95cca8b6d5-Fresh_Crops_Los_Altares&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b1a59c81fe-95cca8b6d5-&mc_cid=95cca8b6d5&mc_eid=%5BUNIQID%5D) suggest that the the first R in the AEROPRESS range on the dial is best for V60 and the second R in the AEROPRESS range on the dial for aeropress. I follow that guidance and use the V60 setting for French press too.

I've been using mine for 6 months now so burrs are well seasoned.

Cheers

Tim


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## GingerBen

Just enjoying a great V60 using the Wilfa from a recipe I saw on instagram.

20g coffee 300g water pout 100g at 0:00, 1:00 and 2:00 - finish with gentle spin and drop. Dry bed in 3:30 and a very tasty brew. wilfa was set so the first 'r' of Aeropress was visible - i.e. you can read Aer


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## J_Fo

Ooh nice, I'll try this later! Is there no bloom or is that the first 100? Also do you stir after the first 100?


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## GingerBen

Jon_Foster said:


> Ooh nice, I'll try this later! Is there no bloom or is that the first 100? Also do you stir after the first 100?


There wasn't a bloom in the recipe so I just poured the whole 100g in then stirred it


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## J_Fo

Cool man, thank you!


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## Hairy_Hogg

salty said:


> Definitely not been my experience overall.
> 
> I've just ground two samples. The first is the finer setting, the second (on the right) is at a coarser setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guidance that's out there (James Hoffman, Tim Wendelboe and Workshop https://workshopcoffee.com/blogs/journal/83014913-wilfa-grinder?utm_source=WorkshopCoffee.com&utm_campaign=95cca8b6d5-Fresh_Crops_Los_Altares&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b1a59c81fe-95cca8b6d5-&mc_cid=95cca8b6d5&mc_eid=%5BUNIQID%5D) suggest that the the first R in the AEROPRESS range on the dial is best for V60 and the second R in the AEROPRESS range on the dial for aeropress. I follow that guidance and use the V60 setting for French press too.
> 
> I've been using mine for 6 months now so burrs are well seasoned.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Tim


That looks course. I use the the first R of Aeropress for my V60's and they are definitely finer than that and more uniform. Out and about this week so cannot take a pic to show unfortunately.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Hairy_Hogg said:


> That looks course. I use the the first R of Aeropress for my V60's and they are definitely finer than that and more uniform. Out and about this week so cannot take a pic to show unfortunately.


That's interesting. I am finding that to operate at V60 territory I need to be in the Mocca range. Aeropress for me feels too coarse for V60. :-(

I also noticed that at with no beans in the hopper, and the burrs spinning, you can hear the burrs rubbing / chirping towards the finer range, ie: middle of "mocca" onwards.


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## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's interesting. I am finding that to operate at V60 territory I need to be in the Mocca range. Aeropress for me feels too coarse for V60. :-(
> 
> I also noticed that at with no beans in the hopper, and the burrs spinning, you can hear the burrs rubbing / chirping towards the finer range, ie: middle of "mocca" onwards.


The only brew method I use where I grind coarser than a 1 mug V60 is a 3 mug Chemex. V60 is usually coarser than Aeropress in practice.

What is your brew recipe. Really we want to see the effect of the grind size against pour regime & brew time to assess coarseness. If your burrs are chirping then they're too close for V60.


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## MediumRoastSteam

MWJB said:


> The only brew method I use where I grind coarser than a 1 mug V60 is a 3 mug Chemex. V60 is usually coarser than Aeropress in practice.
> 
> What is your brew recipe. Really we want to see the effect of the grind size against pour regime & brew time to assess coarseness. If your burrs are chirping then they're too close for V60.


So, this morning I tried:

15g coffee in.

30ml in, bloom for 30s

Then keep pouring in circles, away from the edge

Total brew weight was 250g.

Total time was under 2m, which I think it was too short.

I'll try again tomorrow but this time will mix in the coffee with a spoon with the initial 30ml of water.

That was in the "mocca" range in the Wilfa.

I use a Hario goose neck kettle.

Thanks.


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## J_Fo

I'm new to this & still learning but I'd definitely recommend having a go at MWJB's recipe at the top of page 2 on this thread. My brews are regularly coming out at 2.55 now. Following the recipe (once I'd sorted my filter issue) made me realise I was pouring a bit too rapidly...


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## Hairy_Hogg

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So, this morning I tried:
> 
> 15g coffee in.
> 
> 30ml in, bloom for 30s
> 
> Then keep pouring in circles, away from the edge
> 
> Total brew weight was 250g.
> 
> Total time was under 2m, which I think it was too short.
> 
> I'll try again tomorrow but this time will mix in the coffee with a spoon with the initial 30ml of water.
> 
> That was in the "mocca" range in the Wilfa.
> 
> I use a Hario goose neck kettle.
> 
> Thanks.


On first R of Aeropress I am getting 3 - 3.10 brew times (then add 30s for drippage to stop) - that is with a 30s bloom, a stir, then all in (slowly and steadly) a tap and spin. 14g beans, 250g water. Japanese papers


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## MediumRoastSteam

Hairy_Hogg said:


> On first R of Aeropress I am getting 3 - 3.10 brew times (then add 30s for drippage to stop) - that is with a 30s bloom, a stir, then all in (slowly and steadly) a tap and spin. 14g beans, 250g water. Japanese papers


I'll need to try the stirring, maybe that's the difference.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Jon_Foster said:


> I'm new to this & still learning but I'd definitely recommend having a go at MWJB's recipe at the top of page 2 on this thread. My brews are regularly coming out at 2.55 now. Following the recipe (once I'd sorted my filter issue) made me realise I was pouring a bit too rapidly...


I did try they initially, but I find that the bed dries beforehand. Saying that, I haven't tried stirring the grinds, so will give they a go and will report back.


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## J_Fo

I'm sure you're on top of it but making sure each of the 35ml pours takes a whole 10 seconds made a difference, when I poured them quicker it was drying out for me as well. As I say I'm sure you're on it but thought I'd mention in case...!


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## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I did try they initially, but I find that the bed dries beforehand. Saying that, I haven't tried stirring the grinds, so will give they a go and will report back.


Also, don't worry about hitting the edge of the bed/paper, cover the whole bed with the pour.


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## GingerBen

Ive also been using the method on Unions website which is as follows

15:250

0:00 50g bloom and stir

0:30 add 100g water in spiral

1:00 add 50g water in spiral

1:30 add final 50g as before

gentle Rao spin and tap (I added that because it seems to work well)

95% of brews are done by 3:00. Most in the 2:30 - 2:40 Range

This is with the 02 V60, Japanese white papers (no rinse) and the Wilfa at 'r' or sometimes 'e' if it's a bean that seems to create a lot of fines I.e. the brew takes over 3:30 so I'll go coarser next time to get it down


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## MediumRoastSteam

Success at last! I have successfully made a V60, on the first "r" of aeropress. I think I was pouring too aggressively. After following @MWJB recipe paying attention to the flow rate and also infusing and stirring the bloom, all is good. Thank you!


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## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Success at last! I have successfully made a V60, on the first "r" of aeropress. I think I was pouring too aggressively. After following @MWJB recipe paying attention to the flow rate and also infusing and stirring the bloom, all is good. Thank you!


Great news!


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## J_Fo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Success at last! I have successfully made a V60, on the first "r" of aeropress. I think I was pouring too aggressively. After following @MWJB recipe paying attention to the flow rate and also infusing and stirring the bloom, all is good. Thank you!


Nice


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## Jez H

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Success at last! I have successfully made a V60, on the first "r" of aeropress. I think I was pouring too aggressively. After following @MWJB recipe paying attention to the flow rate and also infusing and stirring the bloom, all is good. Thank you!


Interesting, I use the 2nd "r"! Not sure what difference, if any, it makes.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Jez H said:


> Interesting, I use the 2nd "r"! Not sure what difference, if any, it makes.


I don't either. I was previously trying to control flow exclusively with grind size, and was grinding too fine. I suppose once you get the pouring technique right, the idea is then to adjust grind for taste, and not to control the flow alone.


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## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't either. I was previously trying to control flow exclusively with grind size, and was grinding too fine. I suppose once you get the pouring technique right, the idea is then to adjust grind for taste, and not to control the flow alone.


It's really a balance of grind size & pour technique, they interact. E.g. you could for 10 pours at a coarser grind, or 3 pours at a finer grind.

Best to lock in a pour technique, get the grind in the ball-park, then you shouldn't need to make many, nor large grind adjustments (I rarely adjust grind for drip).


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## pandrews26

Thanks for the tips all! I've sucessfully managed to brew a v60 within the suggested time parameters 

used the recipe from @MWJB on page 2 using between first 'E' & 'R' of aeropress setting.

Have always struggled with v60 but upgraded to the wilfa grinder recently (from hario mini mill incl stabilization mod.) and already seeing improvements even if grind wording on hopper isn't ideal!

Thanks again









Have been jumping around between guides so no consistency at all but found decent starting point now. Using flow restrictor in my hario gooseneck is definitely helping!


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## Donegali

With my local roasters coffee, I find that the Aeropress range is far too fine for a V60. I need to grind at the French Press setting to get the timings and flavour correct. Does anyone know why that might be, could it be a grinder issue or a roasting issue?


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## MWJB

Donegali said:


> With my local roasters coffee, I find that the Aeropress range is far too fine for a V60. I need to grind at the French Press setting to get the timings and flavour correct. Does anyone know why that might be, could it be a grinder issue or a roasting issue?


It's not a roasting issue.

Maybe the filters you use, maybe low water temp, maybe the fact that you're talking about a blob of paint on a hopper as a calibration marker, rather than grind size. But if you like the flavour and it is consistent at that setting, you should be fine. Your brews will be more consistent (same size & regime) at a given grind setting than at a given time, so 'correct time' has a wide margin of variation.


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## Donegali

It's good to know its not a roasting issue as I really do enjoy his roasts (Peaberry Coffee in Andover, just in case someone is interested in giving him a try, very tasty Yirgacheffe and Columbians). Flavour wise it's definitely spot on, but as a smoker I know things might taste very different to me. In comparison to the local coffee shop that also does pour overs it is very similar, the coffee actually starts to taste sweeter as it cools whereas on a finer grind I found it tasted bitter/sour (I can't really differentiate between the 2).


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## ashcroc

Donegali said:


> With my local roasters coffee, I find that the Aeropress range is far too fine for a V60. I need to grind at the French Press setting to get the timings and flavour correct. Does anyone know why that might be, could it be a grinder issue or a roasting issue?


Are you using Japanese or Dutch papers?


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## Donegali

Japanese, I had the Dutch ones originally and had no end of problems. My brews taste great I was just wondering why there would be such a large difference in grinder settings.


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