# First Shot With Naked Portafilter, and it failed...



## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Hi All,

Haven't had my Gaggia Classic and Mazzer SJ for very long, and im still learning for sure and today I pulled my first shot with a naked portafilter and I thought it was going really well and then boom disaster strikes! So im thinking, finer grind but what about tamping? Does this shot show any signs of bad/wrong tamping?

Oh and I should mention, im using a prestige bag of coffee beans, purchased fresh from Tesco today (Costa Coffee) so i'm not expecting great crema to say the least


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Way finer. And you still have a dodgy bean "whats fresh mean could of bean roasted 3 months ago


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

Ah yes. The floodgates opening followed by shite spraying everywhere technique.

I too am excellent at this.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Jony said:


> Way finer. And you still have a dodgy bean "whats fresh mean could of bean roasted 3 months ago


Costa Beans aren't fresh, it was a bit of humour I was adding in.. i meam damn they have an expiry date of like 10 months haha. Anyway adjusted finer and i went too fine. I suppose this is what I like about buying Costa beans, they only cost about £3.79 and i can make mistakes until my coffeefounders signature blend comes.. damn im looking forward to them.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

spoxehub said:


> Ah yes. The floodgates opening followed by shite spraying everywhere technique.
> 
> I too am excellent at this.


Haha, my misses is awfully confused at how coffee ends up on the walls and its a good job ive got tiles or our walls would be destroyed haha. The first time I got my gaggia classic I hadn't a grinder or beans.. then I saw my costa coffee grounds for a french press and I had a smile on my face and thought "I wonder.." and boom went everywhere, it was a coffee massacre that everywhere except my cup. Good memories though


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I would buy a kilo of one bean and go from there. It cost's more but you know were you are with the bean, sorry missed the joke!!


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

You know its a good point to be honest, i went from one shop bean to another and a lot changes, first I had to dose down on Costa beans compared to some other one I had and Costa beans needed grinding differently.. no doubt when I get my signature blend ill be back at the drawing board.. I just hope it doesn't take to long to get it right haha.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

You have a decent grinder, so you should be fine with that. It's all about the bean 1 bean until you have it where you want it.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Jony said:


> You have a decent grinder, so you should be fine with that. It's all about the bean 1 bean until you have it where you want it.


I did some tweaking and I managed to get rid of the spurting but why is it so.. big? Other videos its just a thin pour from the center but this is huge lol


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Hehe I got the same, I know I need to grind finer, perhaps your issue is the same here?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Nothing should show until at least 10+ seconds the sweating?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

1. Grind finer

2. Ensure you purge old grinds (unless you have a system that eliminates them)

3. Check your burrs in case they need replacement

4. Make sure you have genuine Mazzer burrs not after market rubbish

5. Use good fresh beans


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MrLatte said:


> I did some tweaking and I managed to get rid of the spurting but why is it so.. big? Other videos its just a thin pour from the center but this is huge lol


How fresh are your beans? They can be a bit volatile if being used before they've had a chance to rest (about a week post roast).


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

You can get 1kg of Itallian Job Espresso blend from Rave coffee for about £13. I really rate them and use it all the time in my Classic. Also because you have 1kg from the same batch you can really get a handle on dialling them in. You really need to go finer by the look of it. Also how much are you actually extracting from that? It looked like about half a pint in the video. Haha


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## Chap-a-chino (Mar 31, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> 1. Grind finer
> 
> 2. Ensure you purge old grinds (unless you have a system that eliminates them)
> 
> ...


All good points to which I would add:

Distribute the grounds in the portafilter evenly prior to tamping. Be sure to break up any clumps. This helps prevent channeling and spurting.

Tamp firmly and evenly. It will help enormously if you study some Youtube videos. Getting tamping right is much harder than it looks.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Hi Everyone,

I pop on now and again to read the replies and then I get back in the kitchen refusing to admit defeat! But I'm still terrible and I have a few questions, im adjusting my grind to get around 2 ounce in 20 - 30 seconds but im confused at something. I grind 18g of beans into my standard unpressurised gaggia double basket but its not enough fill the whole basket after levelling so im throwing some extra beans in and then using a card to level it off.. but then, I tamp down and it goes below the line on the basket, when I extract the coffee and remove the portafilter there is as expected a puddle.. so what am I supposed to do?

As for the tamping chap-a-chino your spot on, while I measure and try to stay consistent i have no idea what the tamp should be (I watch youtube videos to get a rough idea but its hard to explain pressure from a video haha).. i for sure need to invest in a tamper that compresses at the right pressure to understand tamping pressure better.

As for the burrs, i removed the top bur the day after i got my super jolly and ran my finger around to feel for a knife sharpness from the outer of the bur to the inner which is something I heard to check on a video on youtube and sure enough it felt good. After zeroing the burrs i stuck some beans in at its finest setting, just backing the burrs off enough not to touch and the beans came out like baby powder so I feel confident the burr side of things are okay.. its just me I think!

My coffeefounders signature blend will arrive soon and I need to bring myself up to scratch.. i can sacrifice suoermarket beans but not coffeefounders haha.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MrLatte said:


> My coffeefounders signature blend will arrive soon and I need to bring myself up to scratch.. i can sacrifice suoermarket beans but not coffeefounders haha.


In my thread (right below yours at this moment in time) I was advised to stay away from supermarket beans and that they are a pain trying to dial in, and practising on them is useless. I did switch to fresh coffee, maybe that's all you need? Maybe the supermarket beans are just stale or something?

Sorry I'm not saying this is the case, just throwing ideas out there.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Dr Forinor said:


> In my thread (right below yours at this moment in time) I was advised to stay away from supermarket beans and that they are a pain trying to dial in, and practising on them is useless. I did switch to fresh coffee, maybe that's all you need? Maybe the supermarket beans are just stale or something?
> 
> Sorry I'm not saying this is the case, just throwing ideas out there.


You know you could be spot on, while I need to learn many things I know myself these beans are inconsistent and producing crema is near impossible (which is a sign they aren't good) I've been fixed on using cheap beans as I just wanted to waste the rubbish beans so that I'm better prepared for my proper bag but maybe I'm not doing myself any favours anymore, after all, a new bag means your back the drawing board to get those beans right so I may as well find a nice blend and put my attention to that.

With that in mind though, whats with the levelled grinds going below the basket line after being tamped? All other videos level their grinds and once tamped its about spot on.. I don't understand that part.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Dr Forinor - I just went through your thread, it was a great read and one thing I really liked was the tamping video explaining how to imagine the resistence pushing on a work surface and feeling the resistence.. that to me makes it a lot easier to understand as I can relate better than judging the pressure from just watching somebody tamp.. also the supermarket beans are a big no no.. ahh well you learn haha.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Not sure if anyone has suggested it but you can use a bathroom scale to test your tamp on. Place the scale on the worktop where you tamp and then just use your tamper and press. I am using a light tamp at 10kg but you probably need to aim for more than that. Try 20kg and go from there.

Would a video help of what mine mine looks like in the basket through to tamping, do you think?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MildredM said:


> Would a video help of what mine mine looks like in the basket through to tamping, do you think?


It would, yes please.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MrLatte said:


> With that in mind though, whats with the levelled grinds going below the basket line after being tamped? All other videos level their grinds and once tamped its about spot on.. I don't understand that part.


That has me confused too!!!!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Are you sure you haven't got a triple basket in there? Might explain why 18g isn't filling it.

In my double VST 18g fills just over the top which can easily be levelled into the basket without having to knock any off.

Got to agree with everyone else here. You really are bashing your head against the wall with supermarket rubbish. It'll almost always be stale which doesn't allow the puck to form a proper seal to build up the right pressure.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> It would, yes please.


Here you go. As I said, my tamp is pretty light but it gives you an idea.

(My way may not be the way everyone does it. I think we all find a way to suit our equipment and beans etc)


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Thank you for your effort, and help!


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

@MildredM : Is that a Londinium distribution tool? Would you say it's better than using a cocktail stick?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Not sure I use a darning needle and a china distribution tool.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustable-Smart-Coffee-Tamper-58mm-Stainless-Steel-Three-Angled-Slope-Bean/163182808477


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> @MildredM : Is that a Londinium distribution tool? Would you say it's better than using a cocktail stick?


I haven't ever tried a cocktail stick. I had a home made whisk thing once and it helped break any clumps up.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)




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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Just bought this.

Will use the ring end of one of the smaller ones and use that to break up clumps









https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B072Q35687/?coliid=I2VAC5IOV2DP3L&colid=TSIK5O9A6OQ8&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> Just bought this.
> 
> Will use the ring end of one of the smaller ones and use that to break up clumps
> 
> ...


Good plan. You could cut three off and stick them in a cork


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I also have a thin kebab skewer, with a ring on the end from Asda


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## Chap-a-chino (Mar 31, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> @MildredM : Is that a Londinium distribution tool? Would you say it's better than using a cocktail stick?


Remember that the stirrer breaks up any clumps throughout the portafilter and helps to prepare for using the distribution tool. The distribution tool creates a nice flat surface prior to tamping, but only spreads the surface grounds.

Personally, taking on board all the previous points and suggestions, improving the distribution and my tamping technique has made the biggest improvement.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

chimpsinties said:


> Are you sure you haven't got a triple basket in there? Might explain why 18g isn't filling it.
> 
> In my double VST 18g fills just over the top which can easily be levelled into the basket without having to knock any off.
> 
> Got to agree with everyone else here. You really are bashing your head against the wall with supermarket rubbish. It'll almost always be stale which doesn't allow the puck to form a proper seal to build up the right pressure.


Well I think you may be right, 18G will not fill that basket nevermind overfilling it. Can't complain though, I got the basket free with my bottomless portafilter and to be honest I was looking to upgrade to an IMS shower screen and double basket anyway.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

MildredM said:


> Here you go. As I said, my tamp is pretty light but it gives you an idea.
> 
> (My way may not be the way everyone does it. I think we all find a way to suit our equipment and beans etc)


Great video showing the grinding and tamping, appreciate it. I think before I get my fresh beans I'm going to make my super jolly doserless (well as much as possible anyway) and by the looks of it i've been using a tripple basket so i'll have to get a double.. I will get it right one day!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MrLatte said:


> Great video showing the grinding and tamping, appreciate it. I think before I get my fresh beans I'm going to make my super jolly doserless (well as much as possible anyway) and by the looks of it i've been using a tripple basket so i'll have to get a double.. I will get it right one day!


Do you have any other baskets from before you got the naked portafilter?


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

ashcroc said:


> Do you have any other baskets from before you got the naked portafilter?


I do yes, strange enough its a single unpressurised basket holding between 9 - 11 grams then a pressurised basket and one basket for the capsules.. i can only assume the seller lost it.

Original for sale post is here and I then purchased from general-s-1 but even looking at original it doesn't look like a double was ever there.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D38599&share_tid=38599&share_fid=6813&share_type=t


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

@GerryM what sized baskets were with this?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

MrLatte said:


> I do yes, strange enough its a single unpressurised basket holding between 9 - 11 grams then a pressurised basket and one basket for the capsules.. i can only assume the seller lost it.
> 
> Original for sale post is here and I then purchased from general-s-1 but even looking at original it doesn't look like a double was ever there.
> 
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D38599&share_tid=38599&share_fid=6813&share_type=t


Gaggia doubles hold approx 14-16g. You might push 17g

It's either your scales are off or the baskets not a gaggia double.


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## chip_kara (Sep 25, 2017)

If you are using the basket that I sent with the bottomless filter its the one that I used for nearly 3 years dosing in 18g and getting nice results with a bottomless on a classic. I only changed as a newer machine came with a better basket.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

chip_kara said:


> If you are using the basket that I sent with the bottomless filter its the one that I used for nearly 3 years dosing in 18g and getting nice results with a bottomless on a classic. I only changed as a newer machine came with a better basket.


Lol, I think you've gotten confused. You sold to me, but you're posting to someone else with a Gaggia Classic


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## chip_kara (Sep 25, 2017)

Dr Forinor said:


> Lol, I think you've gotten confused. You sold to me, but you're posting to someone else with a Gaggia Classic


Nope, the same week I sold the machine to you I sold my Eureka grinder to someone, a rancillio steam wand to someone else and a separate bottomless pf and basket to Mr Latte who started this thread haha


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

chip_kara said:


> Nope, the same week I sold the machine to you I sold my Eureka grinder to someone, a rancillio steam wand to someone else and a separate bottomless pf and basket to Mr Latte who started this thread haha


Oohhh, sorry, my bad


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## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

urbanbumpkin said:


> @GerryM what sized baskets were with this?


 @urbanbumpkin I sold the Gaggia over 18 months ago, given the year I've had that seems like a decade ago so all bets on my recall are off, I imagine it had a standard single and a double basket included.


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## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Hi Chip_Kara,

The scales are spot on, I've checked a few times when I get a new bag of beans and they're spot on. Ironically 21g of beans seem to fill the basket which is pretty much (from what I've read) a tripple basket dose? Ill do a video dosing 18g and then 21g



chip_kara said:


> If you are using the basket that I sent with the bottomless filter its the one that I used for nearly 3 years dosing in 18g and getting nice results with a bottomless on a classic. I only changed as a newer machine came with a better basket.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MrLatte said:


> Hi Chip_Kara,
> 
> The scales are spot on, I've checked a few times when I get a new bag of beans and they're spot on. Ironically 21g of beans seem to fill the basket which is pretty much (from what I've read) a tripple basket dose? Ill do a video dosing 18g and then 21g


Don't get too hung up about the coffee dose being under the line. It's not a measure but the inside of the ridge that sits under the spring in the portafilter.


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