# Why don't we ever talk about Caffeine?



## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

It's a drug that we are all most likely addicted to and a crucial bit of what coffee is all about, but it's never much of a topic here. If this was a forum about marijuana, I assume we'd all be talking about how high we get and how strong certain types are, but nobody ever seems to care about how much caffeine is in a particular coffee.

I've read that Starbucks never talks about caffeine and it's true that you would never know about it if you take a look around a store or look at the advertising.

I find it bizarre that the whole coffee industry revolves around this incredibly addictive drug but nobody ever talks about it.

What do you guys think?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

There has been lots of caffeine related discussion on here (it is a coffee forum after all!)

Topics covered include:

adverse effect on health

beans with low caffeine levels

decaffeinated coffee and the processes used

benefits (to plant and consumer)

daily limits of coffee (with caffeine level inferred)

Have a search and you will find lots to read


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jimbocz said:


> It's a drug that we are all most likely addicted to and a crucial bit of what coffee is all about, but it's never much of a topic here. If this was a forum about marijuana, I assume we'd all be talking about how high we get and how strong certain types are, but nobody ever seems to care about how much caffeine is in a particular coffee.
> 
> I've read that Starbucks never talks about caffeine and it's true that you would never know about it if you take a look around a store or look at the advertising.
> 
> ...


Caffeine causes mild dependence, but is in no way an 'incredibly addictive drug'.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

For starters I dont think caffeine is incredibly addictive.

I do wish there was some reference\guide to the strength of caffeine in a given coffee bean though as I do believe I would be swayed towards a lower caffeinated bean as then I could actually drink more than the 2 measly cups i manage now.

I dislike de caffeinated, not because there is no caffeine but because of the process it goes through.

Personally I HATE not being able to go to sleep at night through too much caffeine consumption, so to this end find caffeine is self regulating


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Erm, what's to say?

Coffee has caffeine

I like good coffee

I like caffeine

Without both my life would be less joyful.

I could stop tomorrow IF I wanted to


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Not entirely sure what you are getting at? We can talk about caffeine if you want.

Caffeine content of a beverage is very hard to precisely calculate I believe.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Personally I HATE not being able to go to sleep at night through too much caffeine consumption, so to this end find caffeine is self regulating


Yes - this is an excellent point; I don't like the jittery stage and stop shortly before I feel caffeine-queasy.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

aaronb said:


> Not entirely sure what you are getting at? We can talk about caffeine if you want.
> 
> Caffeine content of a beverage is very hard to precisely calculate I believe.


Yep - and who cares really - your body will tell you if it was too strong and you'll delay the next one?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

aaronb said:


> Not entirely sure what you are getting at? We can talk about caffeine if you want.
> 
> Caffeine content of a beverage is very hard to precisely calculate I believe.


a rough guide -

View attachment 18922


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

jimbocz said:


> If this was a forum about marijuana, I assume we'd all be talking about how high we get and how strong certain types are, but nobody ever seems to care about how much caffeine is in a particular coffee.


I think its because most of us on here are grown ups ... we enjoy the *taste* of coffee, the process of making it. If you look, when we talk about Whisky, again we talk about the taste not that "I can drink a bottle a night and get w4nkerd mate init"

occasionally you get someone come on and open with comment that they can drink 10 espressos in a single cup like its some kind of trophy ... but seriously ? there is like 80mg in a cup of coffee ... thats a painfully small amount in terms of usefulness, you would need to drink 100 cups of coffee for it to become lethal ... well maybe 50 if you are a 12 year old

Caffeine, as bitter as it maybe doesn't really change the flavour of coffee in anyway as its in such small doses ... however the process of decaffeinating does remove the taste of coffee.

I think there isn't much said on caffeine on this forum because there is not much to say .... coffee has a small amount of caffeine in it


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Caffeine is a neurotoxin produced by the plant to protect itself from insect attack which is more prevalent at lower altitudes which is why Robusta strains have higher levels of caffeine in them.

There's plenty of information out there on how much caffeine intake is OK. Everything involves some degree of risk.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

jonc said:


> Yes - this is an excellent point; I don't like the jittery stage and stop shortly before I feel caffeine-queasy.


Worst caffeine high I had was after a visit to DFK in Noocastle after far too much Jampit


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

aaronb said:


> Not entirely sure what you are getting at? We can talk about caffeine if you want.
> 
> Caffeine content of a beverage is very hard to precisely calculate I believe.


I'm not "getting at" anything, just trying to find out more about something I find interesting.

Whether caffeine is incredibly addictive or mildly addictive could certainly be argued. I've given up caffeine and found the results unpleasant, I still get a headache quickly if I miss my coffee for some reason.

For those that work in coffee shops, do you see the same people show up every day at the same time, always getting the same thing? If people are doing that at Starbucks and dropping 3 quid each time, I think that's incredible.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

Forgot to say thanks for pointing out all the forum topics already started, I'll check them out


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> Caffeine causes mild dependence, but is in no way an 'incredibly addictive drug'.


The way some people on here talk about going to Starbucks or Costa machines because they 'need' a coffee, I'd disagree.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

jimbocz said:


> If people are doing that at Starbucks and dropping 3 quid each time, I think that's incredible.


No one is going to disagree with that.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

jimbocz said:


> I'm not "getting at" anything, just trying to find out more about something I find interesting.
> 
> Whether caffeine is incredibly addictive or mildly addictive could certainly be argued. I've given up caffeine and found the results unpleasant, I still get a headache quickly if I miss my coffee for some reason.
> 
> For those that work in coffee shops, do you see the same people show up every day at the same time, always getting the same thing? If people are doing that at Starbucks and dropping 3 quid each time, I think that's incredible.


On here we tend to be more about the actual coffee itself, and the same could be said about the shops we frequent.

I think a lot of people are dependant on caffeine for a morning kick either in bad shops like Starbucks and Costa or the better shops though.

I've given up for a while before, felt pretty ill for the first week but was fine after that.


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

Recently I had to stop drinking coffee for a week. After 3-4 days I developed a headache that paracetamol took care of very nicely. That was the only physical withdrawal symptom, but another facet was that my interest in coffee and all the kit waned until had I not been given a new roaster for Christmas I could easily have sold the lot.

I now believe that our sometimes-unreasonable fascination with equipment is partly a product of addiction, be it ever so mild.

That said, the World Anti-Doping Authority no longer considers caffeine a drug, and it's certainly an item of necessity for many endurance cyclists. The new record-holder For Paris-Brest-Paris did the full 1230 km on coffee and croissants.

I'm back on the juice but I'm thinking of giving one of my machines the heave.


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## Drusy (Sep 8, 2015)

I too wish that the caffeine levels were posted for each bean type - it would help me self medicate to avoid sleepless nights. What is the process to calculate caffeine content?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Drusy said:


> I too wish that the caffeine levels were posted for each bean type - it would help me self medicate to avoid sleepless nights. What is the process to calculate caffeine content?


For each bean you'd have to measure, not calculate, caffeine content. There's not much incentive for anyone to do/pay for this & publish permutations for espresso vs brewed (which would be pointless unless you measured every aspect of every brew/shot).

You can choose decaff, avoid Robusta (blends with Robusta), or simply reduce your intake until you sleep more soundly.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Worst caffeine high I had was after a visit to DFK in Noocastle after far too much Jampit


Are you sure it was just Jampit you were taking?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jimbocz said:


> For those that work in coffee shops, do you see the same people show up every day at the same time, always getting the same thing? If people are doing that at Starbucks and dropping 3 quid each time, I think that's incredible.


I think it's just a nasty habit, there are worse......Not drinking coffee, going to Starbucks.

When I cut out caffeine for a few days (when I was just a tea drinker really) day 3 I had bad head aches, the following day I felt fine. Some people don't have any side effects.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

jimbocz said:


> For those that work in coffee shops, do you see the same people show up every day at the same time, always getting the same thing?


Yes. These people are fiercely loyal and the backbone of independent coffee shops


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## PeteHr (Nov 18, 2015)

I quite regularly abstain from coffee/caffeine - when I can't get a good espresso !

I don't see it as addictive at all. I would _much_ rather have no coffee than bad coffee (I havn't drunk an instant for maybe 20 years !) In fact the older I get, the less inclined I am to drink coffee unless I am pretty sure it will be be at least very good !

My family always dread the after meal coffee when we are eating out somewhere new, in case it's not up to standard


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

So working in research (as i do) we've done a fair amount of testing with caffeine for performance etc.

A typical setup would be to stay caffeine free for 7 days, then fast for 24hrs before taking 5mg caffiene (neat like pro-plus) per kg of body mass.

Your heart will feel like it's going to explode. You'll most certainly be alert, BUT, it's actually hard to concentrate to utilise this 'benefit'.

Fun to do though if you can then go into either an action or a horror movie!


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## BaristaEast (Jan 23, 2016)

bongo said:


> So working in research (as i do) we've done a fair amount of testing with caffeine for performance etc.
> 
> A typical setup would be to stay caffeine free for 7 days, then fast for 24hrs before taking 5mg caffiene (neat like pro-plus) per kg of body mass.
> 
> ...


That sounds intense!

I am SO grumpy without my morning coffee...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

5mg per kg of body mass sounds like a lot!


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

PPapa said:


> 5mg per kg of body mass sounds like a lot!


Not that high... here's an example of a study using 6mg per kg bodymass: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18997650

Also a very brief definition: http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/5

As you'll see, it's only considered a 'high dose' at >=9mg/kg


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Caffeine is harmless fun.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

bongo said:


> Not that high... here's an example of a study using 6mg per kg bodymass: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18997650
> 
> Also a very brief definition: http://www.jissn.com/content/7/1/5
> 
> As you'll see, it's only considered a 'high dose' at >=9mg/kg


I weigh 84kg, so for me to have 9mg/kg = 0.76g of caffeine, or a ~69g dose of coffee. A litre, or more, of French press coffee per dose. Yup, that's a high dose


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

So 6mg per kilo would be 45-ish grams, i.e. just over two double espresso? Not so much.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

its not that high in performance terms ... a single caffeine pill from myprotien.com is 200mg .... I would take 2 before a workout, either wights or cardio to maximise performance


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

h1udd said:


> its not that high in performance terms ... a single caffeine pill from myprotien.com is 200mg .... I would take 2 before a workout, either wights or cardio to maximise performance


Two of them with some ephedrine was intense


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> The way some people on here talk about going to Starbucks or Costa machines because they 'need' a coffee, I'd disagree.


It's all relative. Chocolate is addictive to some people, I wouldn't describe it as highly addictive in a general sense.

However some things, like nicotine or opioids have a clear chemical dependence, these are what are generally thought of as 'highly addictive' but you are free to class anything you like as addictive if you so want.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Yay for ephedra .... What's the deal with ECA these days it's been banned so many times now that googling it I can't work out if its legally got or not ??


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> So 6mg per kilo would be 45-ish grams, i.e. just over two double espresso? Not so much.


not sure on your maths there Mr #jeebsy... i weigh over 100kg... so tops would be looking at 9g of caffeine in a single bolus... not sure i'd like to take, or see anyone take 45g neat!

would be a rush though! lol


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

A quick google comes up with many of the myths and facts as well as the possible benefits on health such as Parkinson, diabetes and something else I cant remember.....

Oh yes its great and I like it, I don't drink much or smoke or go badger baiting so on a scale of 1-10 on the sin front its only a 2, my advice jump in and enjoy it, life is for living and its a key part of coffee and its experience. ;-)


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

bongo said:


> not sure on your maths there Mr #jeebsy... i weigh over 100kg... so tops would be looking at 9g of caffeine in a single bolus... not sure i'd like to take, or see anyone take 45g neat!
> 
> would be a rush though! lol


100kg at 9mg/kg isn't 9g though? My maths is pish though so the original calculation was probably wrong.


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

sometimes i love how my head works....

but then i wake up....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

bongo said:


> not sure on your maths there Mr #jeebsy... i weigh over 100kg... so tops would be looking at 9g of caffeine in a single bolus... not sure i'd like to take, or see anyone take 45g neat!
> 
> would be a rush though! lol


Jeebsy was talking about coffee dose weight re. 45g, not caffeine.

100kg * 0.009g = 0.9g. Arabica is about 1.1% caffeine so around an 82g coffee dose.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

I saw a Kickstarter for a bracelet that delivers a steady stream of caffeine through the day, much like a nicotine patch. Not something I'd buy...


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yeah someone on there also thought it would be a good idea to add caffeine to toothpaste, for those self-obsessed go-getter types who are so busy trying to prove how successful they are in business that they don't have time to drink a coffee before their next power breakfast. Or even to swallow a ProPlus, which takes one second. How sad for them. My definition of success would be having the time to make and enjoy a great coffee before work. Oh wait...


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## Tidiman (Apr 4, 2016)

I can say that it the coffee and more specific the caffeine can be very helpful if its taken on reasonable volumes. For example it helps for burning fat, increase brain activity and memory, helps more on the focus, helps for the heart, helps for physical performance and many more. So basically there are a lot of Coffee Benefits.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Caffine is awesome for fitness and fat management .. probsbly the most used and effective supplement in the industry


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## pcdoc (Dec 4, 2015)

I drink coffee because I like the taste. Having said that I don't drink espresso, I like milky coffees as does our lass. However my main drinks throughout the day is Tea. So both of my tipples contain caffeine but I never give it a second thought. Don't think it's affected me to any degree.

Caffeine is also used in many pain killers too, although I think I'll continue consuming it through my Gaggy classic much nicer taste *grin*


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

h1udd said:


> Caffine is awesome for fitness and fat management .. probsbly the most used and effective supplement in the industry


I'm using it to manage my fat very effectively. It all jiggles together now, whereas before it jiggled in a thoroughly disorganised fashion ?


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