# CBR-1200 issue



## Wildthymecoffee (Dec 31, 2017)

My CBR1200 has just blown the RCD fuse. It's been running a bit hotter than usual. I'm thinking maybe the heating matrix could be the problem. Anyone had this before?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Wildthymecoffee said:


> My CBR1200 has just blown the RCD fuse. It's been running a bit hotter than usual. I'm thinking maybe the heating matrix could be the problem. Anyone had this before?


 You need to be precise, *unless genesis changed something,* are you talking about this fuse?

If you are it's not an RCD fuse, it's an over current protection which in all probability means a direct short, which could have come from the heater matrix as it blew, or something else.* Can you give one other piece of important information, when you reset the fuse, is it now working OK, blows it again straight away or simply doesn't heat/increase in temp, or show some other error code? *If you give more information than a single sentence, the easier to help identify the problem.


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## Wildthymecoffee (Dec 31, 2017)

The fuse on the house main fuse board tripped and would not turn back on until I unplugged the roaster from the socket. If I turn the roaster on again the main fuse will trip again immediately.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Wildthymecoffee said:


> The fuse on the house main fuse board tripped and would not turn back on until I unplugged the roaster from the socket. If I turn the roaster on again the main fuse will trip again immediately.


 Was it an RCBO that tripped, or an ordinary circuit Breaker, of the RCD on the main box?

If you are confused by what I am asking about take a photo of the fusebox and the tripped fuse


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## Wildthymecoffee (Dec 31, 2017)

The switch on the far right is the one that kept tripping.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

You have a fault to earth. It's possible the heating element has shorted to earth

First disconnect the hearing element and switch the Roaster on, does it still trip immediately?

Disconnect it from the relays on the main board (mark up the spade connectors first).


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## Wildthymecoffee (Dec 31, 2017)

Disconnected from the main board and it does not trip.

Does this mean I need to replace the heater element?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I will make the assumption....expensive for you (if I am wrong), that you disconnected the right things at the right place. You can put a photo up of what you disconnected if you want me to be more certain.

The heater matrix on that machine is made up of a centre tap and two elements of a common connection. Each relay switches in an element, even though they are both rated the same current. Early machines were wired differently to later machines. As there is no photo of the internals or heater box, I can't tell which your machine is. I know this because I had a 230V heater matrix on mine that I swapped for a 240V one during early testing, so I am familiar with how it's wired.

If could be the heater matrix is shorting to earth, it could be one of the wires is shorting to earth and the heater matrix is actually fine. Below is a photo of a brand new heater matrix before installation. As you can see there is potential for wires to come off and short out against the interior or other part of the element. If there is nothing wrong with the heater matrix and you try and remove the existing one, you will probably feck it up unless you are super careful. The mica surround becomes very brittle once it's in service. The photo is of the new matrix I installed.









I could just say replace the heater and it will all be good....it's your money after all. Of course I'd rather you do more checks than that. I'd also like it if you would help me to help you by providing more information, like age of roaster, decent well lit photos of the interior of the roaster from a few angles, in case it's something else. Of course if you don't have time, spend the cash replace the heating element...be very careful how you connect it, because if you have a very early model vs a later one, they changed the way the heater matrix was wired internally!


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## Wildthymecoffee (Dec 31, 2017)

Ok. I believe this is your old machine. Just spoken to Kev who sends you his regards & a Merry Christmas. I've ordered a new element. I'd already taken the old one out to look before I read your message on the fragility of it. Is rewiring the matrix going to be the same? It's the 230V.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Yes, as It's my old roaster (gosh that was 3 years ago or more), it had the old wired heating element and when I replaced it, I rewired with the new wiring schema. Just be careful to get it right. The old element had all the wires together in one bundle I think, whereas the new element has 2 separate wires, that need to be tied together to all come out of one hole. Or the reverse, I can't remember which now without going back to my archive photos. Also be very careful you assemble it right especially the bearing bit.

Yes it should be the same. In fact I think I initially had a 220V and replaced it with a 230V, just remember we are a 240V country, *so only over boost in cold weather. *e.g. the 230V heating element can draw about 3.5 or more k. You should be plugged into a power meter to ensure you don't exceed 3kW, in fact i used to keep it to about 2.9 I think unless it was really cold e.g. sub 5C in the workshop and I couldn't use much above 312kW unless it was down below 0. If you are not using it like that, you can pop the element. So be careful with the power controller. I did give Kev the old 220V element, but that is wired differently and I wouldn't advise using it.

*Is that photo of the old heater matrix?? *

P.S. Oh and give it a clean inside, it looks terrible. Soft paint brush and a vacuum cleaner nozzle held away from the circuit boards


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## Wildthymecoffee (Dec 31, 2017)

Ok will clean. Thanks for all your help. Will let you know how it goes!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Do you want a copy of the manufacturers' service/maintenance manual? If so send me a pm. I also have the full IPB (Illustrated parts breakdown).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Oh this will be helpful in understanding. I made these files about 6 years ago. The .PDF contains 3 images from a powerpoint file of the old vs new heating elements and how they are/should be wired.

Is that photo of the old heater matrix...I won't ask again? 

View attachment cbr 1200 heating elements.pdf


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