# Frustration setting in



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok story is.. Got into this whole malarky about a year ago. Bought a Silvia and MC2. Learnt everything from cleaning, descaling, temp surfing to foaming milk. However, only a few times was I able to pour what resembled latte art (whole milk used).









So...

Now I have a Fracino Cherub and MC2 and still struggling to produce consistent results. Started with the 4x1.5mm tip which I couldn't control and then got a 2x1mm tip which was too weak and didn't get a good fast roll going and now using a 4x1mm tip which has best of both worlds. Still a little rowdy with stretching but gets a lovely roll going.

I'm finding mostly when I pour my milk that I just end up with an oil slick of crema on top and no milk coming through like art. So I watched lots of videos and find Luciano's the best. I think I was possibly stretching too much and not texturing enough and subsequently my last effort (30 mins ago) has been my best by far on the Cherub. Still getting a tiny oil slick but the milk started cutting through and I got what resembled a rosetta. I might try make a video and see where I'm going wrong? Might be easier than trying to explain every step on here.

Any ideas?


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

p.s. Beans are Dr Strangelove roasted 12.3.2013. Milk is Semi Skimmed.


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

Wish I could get my latte art to look anything like your pics,looks pretty good to me


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Yeah but that's my trouble, I don't get them looking like those pics.. they were two lucky pours/pulls/steams. Everything else is horrendous in comparison.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

all it took for me to make huge progress was being shown properly once in person.

the trick is to start pouring, then lift the jug up a bit higher and move it gently from side to side. This is the bit where you're just getting milk into the drink and it should all go below the crema and keep the top looking consistent.

then for the final stage, you need to move the pitcher as close as you possibly can to the surface of the drink, and speed up your pour. its the getting very close that does the trick. pouring from too high causes the milk to push through the surface. coming in nice and low takes away the gravitational energy of the milk and lets it sit on the surface

off to try one now.. will post the results in a min


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Have made two vids albeit really hard to hold camera and make coffee at same time so bare with me on these. Started the pour on second vid but seen straight away that crema was breaking up and beginning to oil slick so just threw the rest in and gave up. Perhaps my shots aren't great? They taste ok. Is everyone else timing the 25 secs from start of switch or only start timing when espresso starts pouring from spouts?


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

dont worry about the crema too much. The crema isnt really the only thing that creates the latte art. Its also to do with the coffee staining the milk. You can make latte art with no crema at all.

p.s. im out of milk!! so its just a shot for me


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)




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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)




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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok vids up.. Obviously I'm much faster without the faffing around setting up the iPhone video and balancing it on top of the machine using a weight. What went (is going) so wrong during this whole process?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Try with full milk until comfortable then move onto semi skim. You'll find much better results happen with full milk textured well.

One of the most common mistakes is to worry about spilling the milk.

Practice over a bucket or bowl and then try and stick within the boundaries of the cup once confident


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

From here it looks like there are a couple of issues

1- I'm not sure your getting enough microform, the milk seems quite thin, and is making the coffee quite watery

2- you're not varying your pour speed or height at any point, you need to get closer and faster for the actual art part

3- that's a flipping huge mug? You should try having some coffee with your milk









4- you'll struggle I think, to get nice art from that pitcher. It's very big, so hard to handle, and also it has a fairly broad spout. Get yourself a nice 12oz rattle ware pitcher. It really helped me!


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Three things:

Get a jug with more of a defined spout

Pour faster after the cup is half full. Don't slow down until the cup is practically full.

Shake the jug faster in a side to side motion.

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Too much milk. Looks like you probably had half the pitcher left over, the thicker milk tends to be towards the end of the pour so I'm guessing if you used half as much milk you will do better.

I agree that it is a large mug but it may be easier with the art to start with, then you can get down to a nice 6oz cup and taste coffee with your milk!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

- Too much milk to start with for sure!

- stretch more aggressively but as soon as possible at the start, cant comment on tip position as dont have that machine.

- angle the cup towards yourself more

- spout of jug needs to be almost touching the milk for it to mark the surface significantly

- dont keep banging the jug after steaming this will encourage separation of microfoam and milk, bang it once or twice to disburse large bubbles then swirl jug for a short while until you pour


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## skenno (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm in a similar situation - I got pretty good on my gaggia classic but now have a rocket and just can't get the hang of it. I'm definitely getting closer though!

Are you checking the temperature of the milk? Temp tags are really good for this. I found I was steaming a bit too long before using them. I'd start with less milk in the jug. You need space to stretch the milk a tiny bit more, and then to get the milk moving round to incorporate it. This usually works for me to get decent microfoam although i still struggle with small amounts of milk. Then there's a definite knack to the pouring that I really can't offer any advice on!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks for the replies guys. It's really eating me up with frustration. I'll look into getting a smaller jug in that case. Didn't realise I was using too much milk (that's a bonus as won't have to go through as many pints). Might ask in Costa if they will donate a smaller cup to my cause.

Only checking temp by touch as the thermometer rises much too quickly and to be honest, my outlay has been gigantic already and don't really want to be spending any more on temp tags etc.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

as for cups... i just ordered two of the hasbean 6oz cappucino cups/saucers.

they are made by inker, and are only £6. coffee hit charge almost £10 for the same cup. They are really well made and a perfect size for a flat white or a small cappa.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

I'd be lost without you matey







Have just ordered that pitcher from amazon







Will take a look at Hasbean cups now.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

and i use the liquid crystal thermometer stickers:

http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/espresso_accessories.html#FrothingJugs

they react instantly, have a deliberate 3-5 degree bias so they are always ahead of your temp rather than behind and they last well, as they have a plastic coating on them. I have one on my 12oz rattleware jug from amazon. It makes frothing milk much easier


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## Steve_S_T (Dec 7, 2012)

First off, I'm on the latte art journey myself so am no expert, but Dale at Hasbean improved my technique no end with the simple instruction of starting with the cup at an angle, perhaps 45°, and then starting the pour at the shallow end of the coffee that your angle has created. After that it's just a case of lifting the jug away whilst levelling the cup then moving the jug back in towards the coffee whilst starting to pour more quickly and adding the wiggling motion. Simple (but not simple enough for me







). Worth trying the angled cup though and then just plod on with the rest.

One other thought is that I've frequently seen people advise to never fill the jug over halfway with fresh milk. I can't really tell whether yours is or isn't over half full but thought I'd mention it.

Steve.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

As much as I want to master this, I need/have to stop spending. I actually can't afford to buy any more paraphernalia.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks Steve. I'll give that a go when the new jug arrives. I think it may well could be the case that I'm using too much milk. I will implement the angled cup method like you suggest as it sounds like everyone agrees this to be the rule.

Yeah the jug was filled to half. It's a big jug however and the huge mug perhaps doesn't help. Ah well, all trial and error I suppose. Will report back with fresh results this weekend when I have new jug and hopefully costa donate a small cup to my cause


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

The espresso looks ok though doesn't it lads?


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## Steve_S_T (Dec 7, 2012)

FWIW I've seen lots of jugs advertised as "ideal spout for latte" art, but the type of spouts I see used in coffee shops vary so much I actually don't think it matters TOO much - I bet a good barista will get good art from any jug unless, perhaps, it's one of those wide flat ones.

Steve.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Also look at the size of the mug this guy is using and he pretty much creates the perfect art!

[video=youtube;k2vs-xhpIvU]


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

p.s Blimey a Pinarello very nice! I've got a Bianchi Via Nirone 7 C2C. It's nice but would kill for a Pina.


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## Steve_S_T (Dec 7, 2012)

poona said:


> p.s Blimey a Pinarello very nice! I've got a Bianchi Via Nirone 7 C2C. It's nice but would kill for a Pina.


Ha ha, how ironic, I hankered after a celeste Bianchi for years, but then my wife bought me a second hand Pinarello Angliru for my fortieth birthday and I converted my allegiance pretty quickly. I still love the celeste colour and prefer it to most of the Pina color schemes but the lines of my FP7, which I've had for a couple of years now, are just beautiful to my eyes and I love the white and red paint job on it.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Ok so today huuuuge progress had been made.

1) I got whole milk however I have used it mostly before.

2) I 'borrowed' a smaller cup from a certain coffee shop









3) I still did it by 'feel' instead of using temp gauges..

4) The difference is massive... no more breaking crema however my pours are poor, at least I know I can improve this with practice


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Might I add hardly any bubbles compared to last attempts! Real pleased with these! Also note I used much less milk as per advice


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Great improvement. Consistency looks spot on, just to practice wiggling those hips into a nice bit of art


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## totallywired (Jun 25, 2011)

I've been trying for a couple of years with my latte art and having mixed results until I stumbled upon this series of vids. I see in your vidoe you are using large cups and steaming a lot of milk, I was doing the same until these videos. I swapped to 6oz cups and steam just enough milk. I also swapped to steaming the milk first then doing the coffee shot as there is better crema. Everyone does it a little different but you'll soon find a way that suits you and your machine. I started with the heart as it's a good way to get control of the milk before trying to do much art in the cup. Good luck.


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## totallywired (Jun 25, 2011)

Just realised I missed a couple of pages of posts, so take back my comments about cups and milk.


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## thomss (May 9, 2011)

Looks like you're getting better.

I always pour with the cup in my left hand so I can tilt it easier whilst standing about.

It'll click in to place mate and you'll suddenly starting pouring great looking drinks and the weight will lift right of your shoulders!


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## Dave.wilton (Dec 24, 2012)

One thing that I've found is that if you know a friendly barista at a coffee shop ask them if you can pour your own drink. I've done this a few times and been amazed at how much easier it is to pour some form of art (when they steamed the milk). This really made me realise that it isn't so much the pour technique that is letting me down, but steaming the milk. As for breaking the crema I've seen Baristas pour in a bit of milk and swirl it round first so I'm convinced this isn't an issue.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

yeah as i mentioned before, the crema isnt really the only thing giving you latte art. The coffee itself stains the milk, and its this largely that gives you the brown background colour. Breaking the crema isnt all that big a deal, i do it all the time.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

well its not perfect.. but heres my effort for today.

good microfoam from the 4x1mm steam tip. 18g of coffee, 25 seconds.

Started with jug about 4 inches from cup, start pouring and move the pour from side to side to keep the colour in the coffee steady, then brought the pitcher down to the surface of the coffee, about 1/3rd from the edge and started wiggling







then lift up to about 6 inches and pull through.


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## skenno (Oct 14, 2012)

Looks good. A lot better than my recent attempts!


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

i tried to get a better one.. but this is what i got









even smoother milk, and possibly slightly better shape in the rosetta, but not far off the last one. For the time being, i think i've hit a talent ceiling


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Great efforts mate!


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## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

I'd be more than happy with that!


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