# In line water filters



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I know this has been discussed many times, but I am not sure if the definitive answer has been given, or if it even exists. Is there a filter cartridge system which both filters and protects the machine and does not alter taste?I have a Brita C300 which is nothing special but makes me think I am protecting my equipment. Are there other systems which like minded people ought to be considering?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@Russ

He looked into this, although don't think went ahead with purchasing and installing one in the end?

Care to share some of the very useful info you acquired after your own research plus help from Xpenno ?

Thanks.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

does anyone have any experience of this?

http://coffeehit.co.uk/bwt-bestmin-premium


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

My decision to just get the best deal I could on a cartridge setup has yet to be tested but since getting the digital readout version of the Aquaquell purity 600 I came across this:

http://www.brita.co.uk/brita/en-gb/ppd/purity-finest/purity_quell_gy.grid

I am hoping I didn't make too much of a mistake, this seems to suggest I did ok or could do if I switch to the "finest" style filter cartridge, but I have to admit I really don't understand the purpose of by-pass technology.... in fact only now am I getting a feel for the need to not filter too well.

Anyway using the right filter costs about £120 for upwards of 4000 ltrs (if your KH is 11 or less and zero bypass) so 13p per gallon. Make of that what you will.


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## PeterL (Aug 5, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> does anyone have any experience of this?
> 
> http://coffeehit.co.uk/bwt-bestmin-premium


Yup, made for the job and fitted in a commercial environment often. You can get them way cheaper elsewhere.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

We've been through this many times & yes I have always had a BWT & Crem Supplies of Burnley are much cheaper than Coffeehit.

I use an oversize 'large' cartridge which I renew annually. Total overkill but I like the worry free aspect this size gives.


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

Helpful. I'm in protracted negotiations with Mrs Anton over plumbing in the rocket. She's worried she'll lose some cupboard space to the filter. She will, but I won't have to fill it up/empty the machine all the time...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> does anyone have any experience of this?
> 
> http://coffeehit.co.uk/bwt-bestmin-premium


I'm going to get a Bestmin when funds allow


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I'm going to get a Bestmin when funds allow


I have spoken with James at Bestmin a couple of times and emailed him last night. They have a new filter which was not available in the UK last September which looks interesting. Very expensive though.

Tonsil, share a link for your filter please.

But, part of my question was not so much to try and make the water taste better but is my Brita C300 protecting my machine properly


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## PeterL (Aug 5, 2015)

anton78 said:


> Helpful. I'm in protracted negotiations with Mrs Anton over plumbing in the rocket. She's worried she'll lose some cupboard space to the filter. She will, but I won't have to fill it up/empty the machine all the time...


It takes no more space than a bottle of something else and if you're clever as I am about to do, double plumb it into a three way tap so that you have access for kettles and more. She wins, you win.

http://www.osmiowater.co.uk/taps/3-way-taps-triflow-kitchen-taps.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiAn8i0BRDur-HV1PCTy4UBEiQAPuFr9CrLnEx364vHPutDmi5pGysnbJ9FvJ9pOABR7LUiw5saAkzF8P8HAQ


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Tonsil, share a link for your filter please.


I take it you're referring to me., nothing wrong with my tonsils:yuk:

Here is their Burnley address.

http://www.expobar.co.uk/html/water_care.html

Some years I buy from Shop-Equip

http://www.shop-equip.com/marco-filt...max-m-kit.html

Just to compare the prices.

...and here is a medium one in place:

http://i.imgur.com/TrQnZRQm.jpg


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Is that all that's needed, one cartridge (changed once per annum) and your water supply connected to it? There's a 4-cartridge filtration system connected to an extra single tap here. If those can simply be replaced with something similar, might be a future project...


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have spoken with James at Bestmin a couple of times and emailed him last night. They have a new filter which was not available in the UK last September which looks interesting. Very expensive though.
> 
> Tonsil, share a link for your filter please.
> 
> But, part of my question was not so much to try and make the water taste better but is my Brita C300 protecting my machine properly


Yes.

Bestmin is for increasing the hardness of very soft water. Newcastle appears to have slightly hard water, so the Brita is appropriate.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

GlennV said:


> Yes.
> 
> Bestmin is for increasing the hardness of very soft water. Newcastle appears to have slightly hard water, so the Brita is appropriate.


Yep, my post code shows 47 mg/l as calcium which is slightly hard. The brits ought to do the job. it is just with it being a non alterable fixed head I wondered whether something more sophisticated would be appropriate


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## PeterL (Aug 5, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Is that all that's needed, one cartridge (changed once per annum) and your water supply connected to it? There's a 4-cartridge filtration system connected to an extra single tap here. If those can simply be replaced with something similar, might be a future project...


Yes


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Is BWT Bestmax any good? Seen mention of that before but don't think I've heard much about Bestmin until reading this thread.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> Is BWT Bestmax any good? Seen mention of that before but don't think I've heard much about Bestmin until reading this thread.


The Bestmax is not available yet in the UK, I believe. The best min is more aimed at adding things back into the water and is for hard water areas. it all gets very complicated! I did not want to add anything in, just protect the innards off my machine as best i could

Ignore that, it is the Balance which is not here yet


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Bottled water will do that for you and for very little outlay!


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Bottled water is a pain in the arse if you go plumbed in though


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Thought that after I posted previous comment.

Current installed water filtration has these filters:

Sediment filter x 1

Activated carbon filter x 2

Inline activated carbon filter

First two types of filters are huge cartridges, similar looking to the photo above. The online filter is much smaller and sits horizontal above the larger ones which are vertical.

Also have one of the large (presumably activated carbon filter cartridges) connected to the water dispenser built into American style fridge freezer. Seen as that one doesn't leak, might be easier to just swap that cartridge out and replace with a Bestmin one?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> The best min is more aimed at adding things back into the water and is for hard water areas.


It's for adding stuff back into soft water i thought


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

To quote from the Coffee Hit listing "BWT Bestmin Premium is a filter cartridge specifically to remineralise low-salt water.Its best use is downstream of Reverse Osmosis systems."

I.e.already softened water.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Calcium envy at those figures.

Bestmin for soft water areas and low volume (it relies on contact time )

Bestmax for hard water areas or for someone who wants a consistent water supply if they are high volume


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What's low volume?


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

There is no single best product it entirely depends on the make up of your source water. @dfk41 the only way to know if your current setup is protective enough is to do a drop test. James at BWT may send you one out for free, otherwise they're readily available to purchase


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

fluffles said:


> There is no single best product it entirely depends on the make up of your source water. @dfk41 the only way to know if your current setup is protective enough is to do a drop test. James at BWT may send you one out for free, otherwise they're readily available to purchase


I have one of the test kits Londinium sells, where you add drops of agent to 10 mms water then count...is that the same thing as a drop kit?


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I have one of the test kits Londinium sells, where you add drops of agent to 10 mms water then count...is that the same thing as a drop kit?


Yes, what values does it give you?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> What's low volume?


By shot 20/25 using Linea PB 2 group the mineral content drops off a cliff and we have to dial in all over again . Mid-late morning


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

fluffles said:


> Yes, what values does it give you?


Will have to recheck titbit I think it used to take 6 or 7 drops of agent before the colour change.....my son has the kits will get it back and re test. Should I take water straight from the filter or just from the hot water tap on the machine and let it cool?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Straight from the filter, surely? After it's passed through your machine and been heated then cooled, won't the composition change somewhat, even if only slightly?


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

anton78 said:


> Helpful. I'm in protracted negotiations with Mrs Anton over plumbing in the rocket. She's worried she'll lose some cupboard space to the filter. She will, but I won't have to fill it up/empty the machine all the time...


I've got my filter cartridge located in the cupboard under the sink in the back corner. Takes up hardly any space (Brita C300)

You need to man up and get a filter.... Who wears the trousers!! (ok... ask her nicely with flowers  )


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

What does the c300 do that the domestic p1000s don't ?


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

Daren said:


> I've got my filter cartridge located in the cupboard under the sink in the back corner. Takes up hardly any space (Brita C300)
> 
> You need to man up and get a filter.... Who wears the trousers!! (ok... ask her nicely with flowers  )


No, you're right. Foot down. I'd also threatened to buy a new grinder so could pretend I'm getting this done instead. Marvellous.


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## Russ (Nov 15, 2011)

@DoubleShot

I was looking at RO units when I was considering starting to make xpennos 'magic water' this one looked good value to me http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=22_89&product_id=30

It something that Ive not got round to though, so sticking with bottled for now.

Cheers

Russ


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

So you were, thanks for reminding me Russ.


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## djedga (Apr 22, 2015)

So I work for a laboratory water purification manufacturer...not technical BUT

RO = a semi permeable membrane wound into a cylinder. Water pushed through by force. Everything smaller than a water molecule is removed.

Best for: removal of medium to large particles. Can remove hardness (nott as effective as DI see below)

Down Sides: Expensive can get clogged up and need replacing might need protection in front (filter or softener or both). Lots of wastage water to drain.

Likely to affect flavour? Yes - not selective on what it removes so will remove everything smaller than water.

Deionization = resin charged in order to remove calcium from water (the resin exchanges sodium for calcium)

Best for: Softening water (equipment protection, limescale prevention).

Down sides: Probably removes too much stuff, needs to regenerate with salt so maybe offline unless run in duplex.

Likely to affect flavour? Yes - adds salts and removes pretty much all calcium

Demineralization = see above but removes all minerals not just calcium

Remineralization = adding stuff back in (I know little on this one)!

Filtration (Activated Carbon / Coconut Shell) = massive surface area and porous structure

Best for: Removing gases (smells / tastes)

Downsides: Doesn't remove hardness as well as DI or RO so doesn't really protect equipment.

Likely to affect flavour: Yes but in a good way!

Other filtration = different media to do different stuff (sand for coarse filtration to remove large particles, membranes / screens to remove large particles, very fine filtration to remove smaller stuff).

UV and sanitization chemicals - kills bacteria, removes DNA and RNA - probably not relevant to this discussion

Point of use filters - a good final safety check but again probably not relevant to this discussion

Recirculation of water, shape and size of tanks and pipework, laminar flow - stops bacteria formation - again not relevant here

What is best for coffee? No idea but maybe the above (very rough guide might help). I can always check in with our R&D boffins when I get a spare moment!

Most systems designed for a commercial setting will use a combination of technologies depending on feed quality, flow and usage.. We specialize in ultra pure water for scientific experiments, clinical analysers and washer disinfectors for medical applications where water purity is critical so unfortunately none of our systems suit home use but the technologies employed are essentially the same in many applications so sure I could get a bit more in depth.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@djedga

that is interesting. What we need is something that aids taste but at the same time protects the insides of your machine from scale. I am lucky as the water is reasonable but, I still worry!


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## djedga (Apr 22, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> @djedga
> 
> that is interesting. What we need is something that aids taste but at the same time protects the insides of your machine from scale. I am lucky as the water is reasonable but, I still worry!


Which is why most of the britta etc use carbon and di or similar purification media (resin and carbon beads) in combo. Probably the easiest and most effective protection without making water boring tasting... and why the bestmin is there to aid putting flavour back in where heavier purification is used. Also why most softeners installed with a bypass tap for drinking water.

You wouldn't want to drink lots of pure water, it would try to remineralize stuff from your body. Also some minerals are essential to help organs function and blood cells creating (iron for example) A few cups of coffee would be fine but if it was all you drank your body wouldn't thank you basically...


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Some great and interesting info djedga, thanks.


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