# Sage Pro Grinder update



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I had issues with my grinder in a much as I could not replicate the shots pulled in the promotional videos. So, Steve from Coffee Classics who supply the white gloves service turned up to see if he could resolve the issue. I showed him how I prepared and pulled a shot using my F83, dosing at 19.5 gms with the machine at standard settings (60% pump, 7 seconds pre infusion) and it pulled a perfectly acceptable shot using the double button at 9 bar. I then invited him to use the same beans on the Sage which he did.

But, Steve did not weigh in our out. The shot he produced more or less replicated my shot, judging by eye alone. I then asked him to do the same again, but this time measuring in and out. I should say that the grind setting was on 8 and Steve set the timer to 19.8 seconds. This ground 23.4 grams and again, using the double button tied to 30 seconds produced circa 44 grams.

So, the Sage can do what it says, but it does leave one burning question. Would you want to drink a shot using around 23 grams from choice every time you make a cuppa?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

I think that 22g is pretty much a standard shot in Oz, so maybe this is considered normal.

Fewer than *10 shots from a 250g sounds a bit painful though

*allowing for dialling in/purging


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

Are you using the stock basket?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Craig-R872 said:


> Are you using the stock basket?


Yes I am. I find it very good indeed


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Yes I am. I find it very good indeed


Yeah me too but do find it likes larger doses. I Have thought about trying a smaller basket.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

the oracle works with these doses too. Part of me wonders if its the way to " get around " the sage's ability to go fine enough ( without shims ) or whether its the oz high dose mentality


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

My grinder is on no less than setting 4. Surely if it was set too 1 this would be way too fine?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Craig-R872 said:


> My grinder is on no less than setting 4. Surely if it was set too 1 this would be way too fine?


At 23g yes....what happens if you wan to dose a more reasonable 18g ?


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> At 23g yes....what happens if you wan to dose a more reasonable 18g ?


I dose 19g for 30 secs and get circa 40g out. Would a 18g basket be better?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Craig-R872 said:


> I dose 19g for 30 secs and get circa 40g out. Would a 18g basket be better?


Nope , was under the impression you were doing 23g. What coffee you using , coffee compass ?


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

Rave columbian Suarez


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I started off dosing at around 19.5 gms and on 1, the finest setting it pours through. Having seen the effects of overdosing today, bringing the shot back down I am going to get a 15 gm vst and try dosing that as much as possible. I was really surprised at getting 24 grams into the stock basket mind you!


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> I started off dosing at around 19.5 gms and on 1, the finest setting it pours through. Having seen the effects of overdosing today, bringing the shot back down I am going to get a 15 gm vst and try dosing that as much as possible. I was really surprised at getting 24 grams into the stock basket mind you!


What beans were they?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Initially coffee compass guatamalan then illy


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Initially coffee compass guatamalan then illy


Have you had similar results using any of raves coffee beans? I've tried most of there chocolate tasting beans and my grinder setting is somewhere between 4 and 7 for my above dosing.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Using both sage and vst baskets in have no problems grinding fine enough for shots in the desired range.

The sage works best with the puck at the correct headspace. This can be measured using the metal line on the tamper. With a decent tamp pressure you do need to updose both baskets to achieve this. That said you should be able to make spro with 20 in a 20g vst.

The only other thing is that if you are using decafe then its all bets off. Most decade requires much finer grind.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

There is no problem in using the Sage, whether decaf or not. But the truth is, if you try 19.5 gm in the standard basket it gushes. If you up dose to 23 to 24 gms, then the results are good. If you look at any of the Sage promotional videos, (they have changed them in the last 12 months where they just bang on about bean freshness) they never weigh anything out. Everything is done by eye, including output......this I suspect, is because they are only too well aware. I am hoping up dosing a 15 gm VST though I doubt it will hold enough might be the answer.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Decaf and vst 15 g will lead you to a world of pain ( especially if using Illy )

15g vst and fresh, medium roasted coffee at low pressure was no real fun tbh


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> There is no problem in using the Sage, whether decaf or not. But the truth is, if you try 19.5 gm in the standard basket it gushes. If you up dose to 23 to 24 gms, then the results are good. If you look at any of the Sage promotional videos, (they have changed them in the last 12 months where they just bang on about bean freshness) they never weigh anything out. Everything is done by eye, including output......this I suspect, is because they are only too well aware. I am hoping up dosing a 15 gm VST though I doubt it will hold enough might be the answer.


If you want to up dose then 20 in and 18 would be a better option. If you are using illy decade then maybe try the double walled baskets. It might help with the flow.

If up dosing works then it sounds like you're good to go anyway


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Decaf and vst 15 g will lead you to a world of pain ( especially if using Illy )
> 
> 15g vst and fresh, medium roasted coffee at low pressure was no real fun tbh


Illy decaf are quite dark......I am fine using 23 gms per cup if the taste works. I had an americano earlier and it was fine, not as nice as in milk though. I am using that new Area product, BoB, which is best of both. Skimmed milk but with a real creamy taste and delicious with coffee


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

wasn't referring to taste or your enjoyment . Had an illy " flat white " in a cafe by accident this week, still brushing by teeth to get rid .

Anyway was saying

vst = fine grind needed

Decaf = fine grind needed

Illy = Fine grind needed ( unless lucky with a fresh bag )

Smaller dose = finer grind needed

15g vst , IMHO , a pain in the arse to use , especially at 9 bar...

Just wishing you luck


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Illy is never fresh , that's reality .


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Where are we wandering with this thread?

It started about Sage Pro Grinder & now we've arrived at Dfk's experience with Illy Beans.

Suggest start a new thread for Illy (if you must).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@ronsil

there is an Illy thread already but since the Illy in question are decaf personally I do not have an issue


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

@dfk41 have you tried any other baskets?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Craig-R872 said:


> @dfk41 have you tried any other baskets?


not yet.....i have a vast 15 gm coming so will report back


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> not yet.....i have a vast 15 gm coming so will report back


Great I would like to know what you think. I would like to try a 18g.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Illy is never fresh , that's reality .


it is not about freshness Gary. Illy and Lavazza would not be the biggest brands in the world, without doing something right. We, who think we have a modicum of knowledge like to pass comment on beans and freshness and think we are very superior because we buy from artisan roasters who supply freshly roasted beans for consumption within a short period of time......strange that even most of these artisan roasters label their bags with a best before of 6 months plus.

The current buzz phrase seems to be tasty....if i find a bean tasty and it is Illy, it may well not pass the freshness artisan test, but does that really matter? I have had loads of freshly roasted beans that I would only season a grinders burrs with!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> it is not about freshness Gary. Illy and Lavazza would not be the biggest brands in the world, without doing something right. We, who think we have a modicum of knowledge like to pass comment on beans and freshness and think we are very superior because we buy from artisan roasters who supply freshly roasted beans for consumption within a short period of time......strange that even most of these artisan roasters label their bags with a best before of 6 months plus.
> 
> The current buzz phrase seems to be tasty....if i find a bean tasty and it is Illy, it may well not pass the freshness artisan test, but does that really matter? I have had loads of freshly roasted beans that I would only season a grinders burrs with!


The ultimate test of any drink to anyone is 'Do I like it'. Although that is often about perspective and having not tasted anything better.

Just because Illy/Lavazza are the biggest brands does not mean their coffee tastes good, much like Starbucks/Costa they have huge marketing push and their coffee tastes better that the average joe makes at home with Nescafe or supermarket beans in a french press.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Taste is ultimately subjective

Drink what you enjoy


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dylan said:


> Just because Illy/Lavazza are the biggest brands does not mean their coffee tastes good, .


Doesn't mean they taste bad either, if I'm stuck for coffee & need to pick up from a supermarket, I'll go straight for Illy Monoarabica.

No quakers, no stinkers, no stones...everyone's free to have their own preferences, but there are some aspects to being big that have tangible benefits to quality.

(French press is a brew method, not a mark of quality, or otherwise).


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

MWJB said:


> Doesn't mean they taste bad either, if I'm stuck for coffee & need to pick up from a supermarket, I'll go straight for Illy Monoarabica.
> 
> No quakers, no stinkers, no stones...everyone's free to have their own preferences, but there are some aspects to being big that have tangible benefits to quality.
> 
> (French press is a brew method, not a mark of quality, or otherwise).


I wasn't trying to insinuate that it meant they tasted bad, simply that being a big brand wasn't a specific indicator of having a high quality product.


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## Hibbsy (Jan 8, 2017)

I'm still very new to grinding my own beans, but I have a sage smart pro grinder and find it very easy to use. The grind I'm getting with a setting of 12 has been fine for my old espresso machine. However reading on this forum it looks like I may need to adjust it finer for the decaf beans I have ordered from horsham.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Don't mean to hijack thread to ask a question but, is the grinder that's built in to the Barista Express the same as the Sage Pro Grinder?


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