# Finally gone for bottomless portafilter



## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)




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## stavros (May 4, 2011)

That's brilliant Mike. I've been putting this upgrade off for this very reason. I guess we all give in in the end though!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Hehe - I stepped on a few IEDs but survived! Hope I haven't put anyone off getting a bottomless PF!!

In the end I did what others have done and put the double basket in it for now. Still a little spray so I guess my puck has some weak spots, but not too much and a nice single cone did eventually materialise in the centre but I'm not at all happy with the colours. In a way I'm glad of the spray and the blonding, as finding weaknesses means it was worthwhile buying the PF.

Think I'll put a video of the naked extraction in the other thread started by Gary a few weeks back. I'm a sucker for punishment


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

I was also thinking about putting up a vid of my bottomless attempts.

Oh I say!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

Think it would be a good thread... maybe a video of grind, coffee distribution and tamp, then another of the bottomless extraction... much easier to give feedback / tips to people that way...

Bottomless pf was definitely a good thing for my technique... helped even tamp pressure and poor basket distribution... if you are suffering uneven extraction readup on the weissman distribution technique. Also a north south east west tamp to try and help even extraction...

Then there's convex versus flat tampers and those new vsf(?) baskets, more toys


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Exactly the intention of my thread as mentioned by Mike.

VST baskets are yet another upgrade to be considered , doh


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

Was going to order a vst (not vsf







basket but the shipping and handling was 75 dollars







, went synesso ridgeless instead... still on my list though if a UK distributor acquires some...

Look forward to the thread


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Do they fit a gaggia classic portafilter? I see pullman are selling a combo - VST and customer fitted tamper, but they're out of baskets until mid July.


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

I think they do, will have a little read... I have a feeling classic and Silvia baskets are compatible and they fit ol' Miss... greater variance arises with internal diameter of the basket than external, hence the spring on your pf being lenient... baskets need to be quite similar due to brewhead sizes.... someone correct me if am off though, I won't take it personally (for too long)


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## james10 (Feb 28, 2011)

Quick question:

What are the VST / synesso ridgless baskets?

I just done a quick google search and didn't really notice much difference / benefit over a conventional basket - please correct me though

Only reason I mention it: I'm getting a naked portafilter and might as well order a few other bit's to save on shipping


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

As far as my limited understanding goes, they may look similar to standard baskets but there are some big differences in terms of

(a) build quality - the holes are precision-made

(b) design - the positioning and qualtity of holes. I think there is a broader surface area of holes, which apparently leads to a better extraction.

© the introduction of weight-based sized. Rather than a single/double/triple, yoo can now choose a 7g/14g/17g/21g. (Personally I'd quite like to see 1g increments, but my mind isn't made up on this yet.)

This all results in better shots more consistently, although that's just hearsay for me at the moment. Also, whereas a standard basket might be £3-5, a VST is more like £15-20 I believe.

Here's an article by Mark Prince of coffeegeek.com

http://coffeegeek.com/opinions/markprince/04-29-2011


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

The vst baskets are a new basket shape that is meant to reduce central channeling during extraction... should lessen central blonding and ensure more even extraction of the coffee enhancing shot flavour (blonding equals bitter acid tones if I remember correctly)...

This is achieved on the vst by a straighter outer rim on the basket allowing the water to flow more evenly through the whole basket.. only downside from reading is that they punish mildly bad technique and increase spitting through a bottomless pf, you have to use a flat bottomed tamper too...

ordered the synesso 2 weeks ago and its pretty darn good, cost 12 pounds I think... can't go wrong in the interim whilst waiting for the vst's to become available, think they are still being backordered for the current run... would wait and see what the general consensus is initially...

Sometimes using such precise instruments and having your shots punished takes the fun out of it all...


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

I've got a Synesso double ridgeless. I don't use it anymore as it takes about 20g to fill it.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Interesting that VSTs cannot (or discouraged shall we say) be used with a convex tamper.

I always thought if the the showerhead shape roughly fitted the tamper shape then that was no bad thing...


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I thought it was that the tamper should reflect the shape of the bottom of the basket, so there is a uniform depth of puck. But I haven't actually seen anyone put their neck on the block and provide some evidence regarding the great 'flat or convex' debate.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I've used both, and although I have a preference for curved, I have no scientific reason for liking them more. Interestingly, although he says it's got to be personal preference, Reg Barber recommends the curved ripple.

But my own feeling is that as long as the puck is hard enough and consistent enough, then tamping is the least important of the variables in espresso making. (Lights blue touch-paper and stands back....)


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

looks like the vst basket will fit a classic portafilter... a few people have reported using them in such a combo... on the vst website they state will fit most 61mm portafilters, hopefully only naive manufacturers would produce anything vastly different...

the more I look, the more I want one... crap...


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

Hi all. First post here. Where did this forum come from? Never noticed it before?

Anyways thought I'd chip in on the bottomless thread. My coffee machine has been offline for a few months but finally got around to the vibe to rotary pump conversion. Also got a bottomless portafilter for the first time. Cranked the machine up and it was running at 13 bar. Adjusted the pressure to 9 and started a few shots. I found the bottomless filter great and really easy to get the hang of. After chucking around 4 doubles down the drain it was all dialed in with a nice single stream of thick gloopy, brown oily lovely espresso. I was really happy with this. Probably would have only wasted 2 shots or so normally but due to all of the changes to the machine and the fact i'd made the grind much more corse as I'd been drinking cafatiere coffee whilst the machine was bust it took a few extra shots to get the grind right.

My opinion to everyone is get a bottomless filter if you haven't got one and if your thinking of changing from vibe to rotary do it! My machine sounds sweet now!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi Chris. Welcome to the forum. We have Glenn Watson to thank for setting it up, and the great bunch of members for getting stuck in with excellent contributions







I think it's an invaluable UK-based addition to the US/OZ/etc forums out there. Its excellent to be able to talk about UK suppliers, engineers, coffee shops etc with people who may have used them or even actually work there.

Regarding the bottomless portafilter, there's one thing I haven't got my head around yet. To me it's just a tool for identifying weaknesses in my process and technique - that's the only reason I bought it and once I've fixed any issues I'd be happy to go back to spouts. But I'm surprised to notice that my crema is better than before... I don't mean there's more of it. I expected more crema. But it's darker - more like the colour I've been trying to get. I wonder if it's all in my head, or if perhaps the fact that the espresso is not touching a spout (and therefore not being cooled down by a spout) is the cause of the seemingly better colour.


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

They do reckon that the less the coffee comes into contact with other materials and especially if your PF isn't the cleanest, the better it is for the taste. I didn't think it was just for learning your technique. From what i can gather people still use a bottomless PF even when they're pros.


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## AndyL (Apr 10, 2011)

I love my bottomless PF and to be honest I use it exclusively at home.

Yes it's great for analysing your shots but it produces great shots as well of course. The only time I use standard PF these days is if I want to split the shot.

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## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

I've also now gone bottomless as a way of improving my shots.

I've searched but couldn't find any clear guides. It might be a good aide as lots of us seem to be going this way but could one of our more experienced members possibly list what we should be seeing when pouring a good shot or a bad shot, what type of things should we be looking out for and maybe what techniques could remedy them.

Jason


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## Fran (Dec 27, 2010)

Hey Pendragoncs, check out this link:

http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html

Fran


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Thanks Pendragincs and Fran. I suppose what I hadn't considered is that it's not just my technique that I need to used the bottomless PF to monitor, its the ever-changing condition of the bean and it's impact upon the extraction... and hence, for example, requisite grinder adjustments.


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