# VST basket dilemma.



## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

I just don't know what VST basket to order? Do I want ridged or ridge less? Is there a best tamper to use which is perfect for these baskets?

Any info appreciated.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

The cafelat strada tamper is specifically designed for VST baskets.

Available from Chris' Coffee in the US.

15g basket can be a difficult mistress but is highly rewarding. Ridged works for me.

18g is too higher a dose for my tastes.

Both will help your shots extract more evenly if they are distributed/tamped properly


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Is there anything wrong with a smaller dose inside an 18g basket? Is it not handy to have the extra room? As I understand it, they're by no means a panacea for shot pulling problems - I'm holding off getting one tlll I get more consistent results in a bog standard basket.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

I have the 15g ridged and just adore it! like fatboy said she can be a difficult mistress but well worth the effort, I like ridged baskets personally just for the reassuring click into the portafilter and knowing that it isn't going anywhere, though ridgeless ones do have their advantages. I am about to buy an 18g and 22g for certain applications but for general use the 15g should suit most of your needs.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Earlepap said:


> Is there anything wrong with a smaller dose inside an 18g basket? Is it not handy to have the extra room? As I understand it, they're by no means a panacea for shot pulling problems - I'm holding off getting one tlll I get more consistent results in a bog standard basket.


What's the point of getting used to the crappy basket only to have to change everything when you get a decent one. If you've decided it's probably something you want, just do it.

I've got the 18g ridged VST and really I like it. My Rocket 58mm tamper fits it absolutely perfectly. It does tend to work best with about 19g. I might get a 15g to try out a smaller dose.


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Why the 18g of the 15g? What is the difference produced by them? Why would someone pick one over the other. Why picked the ridged? Why pick the ridgeless?

thanks


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## maarten_booij (Jan 28, 2011)

I also have the VST 18gr ridged, but wish I had gotten a ridgeless, but that is very personal. I like to take out the basket for cleaning, and sometimes taking it out of the PF for dosing will help my shot as well. Would like to have a 15gr as well, just to try that one out

It is maybe not a good idea to underdose a 18 gr one, since apparently the basket is designed to have the perfect amount of space above the puck to have the best extraction (distribution of water). I don't know if this is true, but it might help your choice


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Milesy said:


> Why the 18g of the 15g?


What the who now? I assume you meant to say, "Why the 18g over the 15g?" I guess it's a matter of taste. It might sound obvious but do you want more coffee?



Milesy said:


> What is the difference produced by them?


You can fit more in the 18g basket...



Milesy said:


> Why would someone pick one over the other.


They are designed to take that amount of coffee perfectly +/-1g. So it depends how much you want to dose with.



Milesy said:


> Why picked the ridged? Why pick the ridgeless?


I like to feel my baskets are firmly clipped into place in the PF. If you like to remove them for weighing then I guess a ridgeless would be better. I personally weigh beans before I grind them then coffee going into the cup to get my brew ratios.


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I have the 18g ridgeless. I chose 18g as I have found over time 17g to be my preferred dose. I am finding now I prefer 15g for flat whites, so I think I may have to go back to the VST store and purchase a 15g too!

Ridgeless was just a choice, it fits tightly in the gaggia portafilter and doesn't fall out when knocking. But I can remove its by hand rather than the ridged which clips in, so therefore it's easier to clean.

It's all personal choice, there is no wrong or right basket for any type of machine/drink/blend etc.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

To be honest the 15g ridged is so ultimately satisifying when you 'snap' it into place on the bottomless PF.

I'd buy ridged just for this sound and the reassurancing clicking/snapping sound.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

chimpsinties said:


> What's the point of getting used to the crappy basket only to have to change everything when you get a decent one.


I guess since it's a relatively cheap upgrade you're right. I've a question - does under dosing in bigger baskets create more gushy shots? I've been putting 16g in the standard bigger Gaggia classic basket and am having trouble taming the speed of any lighter roasted beans, even on a very fine grind.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Earlepap said:


> . I've a question - does under dosing in bigger baskets create more gushy shots? I.


yes , you need to grind much finer to compensate


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I think I will get them all for learning.


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Earlepap said:


> I guess since it's a relatively cheap upgrade you're right. I've a question - does under dosing in bigger baskets create more gushy shots? I've been putting 16g in the standard bigger Gaggia classic basket and am having trouble taming the speed of any lighter roasted beans, even on a very fine grind.


Is that the pressurised basket or normal? I am getting the same problems. Some pours are perfect and others are just horrible. No consistency even with keeping all my variables as exact as possible. How much max can you get in your PF?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

That's with an unpressurised basket. I think I can probably get 19g in without the grouphead leaving an indentation on the puck. I'll investigate properly tomorrow - I'm all full up of coffee for today.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

With stock baskets the holes on the bottom are designed for a 14g dose so even though the basket can physically accept a much higher volume of ground coffee, the inherent resistance (smaller sized holes on the bottom) of the basket is such that a much coarser grind is required to compensate. With VST baskets, the size and inherent resistance of the basket are designed to support a narrower range of dose sizes - usually to within +/- 1g of the stated volume. For example, the 18g basket is designed for 17-19g of ground coffee. As the resistance of each basket is designed to suit a specific volume of ground coffee, then a smaller dose in a larger basket would require a much finer grind to compensate for the lower volume of coffee in the basket which has bigger holes on the bottom (and hence lower resistance) compared to a basket designed for smaller doses of ground coffee. This finer grind could lead to a higher extraction yield and possibly over extraction with the tell-tale bitter taste.

How much coffee do you usually use in your basket and what sort of coffee do you usually use?

Ridge vs ridge-less is somewhat personal and depends upon the machine. If using a Gaggia machine either type will work fine although the portafilter spring is designed to work with ridge-less (the Gaggia stock baskets are ridge-less). Both baskets will sit firmly and securely in a Gaggia portafilter although a ridged basket will require a tool or knife to prise the basket out of the portafilter.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I tend to use 16-18g of coffee in the bigger basket that comes with the Gaggia Classic. Type of coffee varies, but generally I get better results with darker roasts, though I prefer the taste of lighter roast espressos - which is unfortunate since I can't get a decent pour with the buggers!


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Earlepap said:


> That's with an unpressurised basket. I think I can probably get 19g in without the grouphead leaving an indentation on the puck. I'll investigate properly tomorrow - I'm all full up of coffee for today.


I am confused with my basket. What method do you use to get 19g in? Do you need to compress the grounds down while distributing and levelling?

I have been told my double basket is 14g by someone and then 18g by someone else. I don't have a clue. So I don't know if I am overdosing or underdosing.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

19g is a guess at what's in there if I just grind till the basket is overflowing, level, then tamp. Normally I weigh the dose though, then grind.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

The stock double with a Gaggia Classic, or at least the one I have which was pre-pressurised baskets, is about an 18g basket. I replaced this with a 18g VST and have noticed more consistency in shot quality. It has also helped me refine my tamping so I can regularly, as in almost every time, get a great shot.

I would say ridgeless is the way forward, its so tight as it is, with a ridge I cant imagine it ever coming back out again!


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone. Can anyone recommend a cheap tamper (see other thread) which will be perfect fit for the 18g basket?


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## contrary (Feb 2, 2012)

check http://www.madebyknock.com/buy.html for 58.35mm tamper. it is meant to fit vst.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

That tamper site looks great, especially if they're making cheap ones that fit vst baskets.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Milesy said:


> I am confused with my basket.
> 
> ...
> 
> I have been told my double basket is 14g by someone and then 18g by someone else. I don't have a clue. So I don't know if I am overdosing or underdosing.


This confusion is completely understandable with stock baskets. Stock baskets are usually designed for 14g of ground coffee as per the Italian standard and the Gaggia is no different. However, these baskets are quite large and can physically hold much more ground coffee - usually 18-20g depending upon grind.

I remember James Hoffman explaining this quite well in one of his blog posts. He said that traditionally a double espresso was always 14g of ground coffee but as many Baristas moved to grinding freshly on demand, they started using the basket itself to measure the dose of ground coffee consistently, levelling the grounds with the rim of the basket before tamping. This led to larger doses becoming the norm. However, as the basket was only intended to hold 14g of ground coffee, a coarser grind was required to offset the increased resistance from the larger dose of ground coffee in the basket. This of course in turn had an effect on the extraction yield of the coffee and some people looked towards darker roast profiles which would work better with lower extraction yields.

The VST basket is designed to offer exactly the right resistance for a specific dose of coffee so that an optimal, finer grind can still be used with larger volumes of ground coffee and hence the coffee can be properly extracted.


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

So I farted around with the stock double basket today trying to figure out what worked best. I used Coffeesmiths espresso blend roasted at Climpsons and Sons - a medium to dark mix of 60% Ethiopian and 40% Brazilian.

Though the basket can hold 18g comfortably, the shower screen indents the puck, and it choked the machine even with a coarser grind. 17.5g a better pour but still marking the puck. 16g yeilded gushy results. In the end I settled on a grind setting (Vario - left slider 3rd from top, right 2nd from top) and went with 17g, which I stopped at blonding leaving 23g. Lovely balance of tangy and nutty with a smooth mouth feel. Could probably go a notch coarser on the grind or tamp a bit lighter but I'm pleased with this and am wired after all the trials since only one was a sink job.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I have found similar to this regarding the slight indent from the shower screen. I don't think it matters that much and you're much more likely to get a gusher from under dosing than you are from the slight indent from the screw


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

FWIW this is my take on which VST basket to get. The ridgeless is perfect for the Gaggia Classic PF as it clips in, is not going anywhere but can easily be removed for cleaning, etc.

As for size, I have the 18g but I will probably purchase the 15g, because I find it difficult to fit 18g in my basket without messing around with distribution. I believe, and maybe Jim can confirm since he has both, that there isn't much difference in the size of the 15g and 18g basket, but the holes are smaller for increased resistance in the 15g for the smaller dose.

If I dose straight into my 18g basket and level, I find I have 15g


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I got the 15g. Have not had time to play around with it properly yet but don't reckon you could get more than 16g in there.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm not ruling out it being something to do with my grind but it is a PIA especially with these darker roast beans I am using.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Just had a thought. It could be the scales are out. Will check tomorrow with another set.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

The 15 and 18 are indeed close in size but the 18g basket is slightly deeper - enough to fit a few more grammes. I am afraid I agree with Earlepap that it would be challenging to fit more than 16g in the 15g basket depending upon the group design.


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Ok, it was partly the scale and partly me. I was weighing the whole PF and it seems at those sort of weights (~450g) the accuracy is not so good.

I had measured just the basket before, and it appeared to tally with the weight with the PF included but I could have got my sums wrong. This scale turns off after 30 secs, so I don't tend to tare with the container loaded in case it switches off before I have filled it.

Anyway, fillling the basket and levelling off gave me 18.4g









I can now endorse the 18g ridgeless.


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## alemarengo (Jan 2, 2013)

maarten_booij said:


> I also have the VST 18gr ridged, ...


Dear maarten_booij, you own a Gaggia Classic, right? Can you confirm me that both VST 15gr and 18gr ridgeless baskets fit the Gaggia Classic portafilter?

Thanks in advance!


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## reneb (Nov 2, 2011)

They both fit, yes. I've got the 18g ridgeless VST, fits no problem.


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