# How much of an upgrade is a Rancilio Silvia V4?



## nickrorschach (Apr 8, 2015)

...over a Gaggia Classic (4 year old model), if an upgrade at all?

Thank you very much.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Sideways not vertical ...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You still need to temp surf both machines ( thermostats are pants ) . If you are buying new ( Silvia 4 ) I really just would save your cash for the next level

This might help

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21528


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Agree with Boots - sideways not vertical. If you want to improve the Classic, on a budget, then go with some of the popular mods (brass dispersion plate, PID, Silvia steam wand, etc.)

PID is especially valuable and beneficial on a Classic (or Silvia).


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

The silvia is a better machine out of the two.

A bit like comparing a ford to a BMW, they will both get you to your destination, but one is better made than the other


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MrShades said:


> Agree with Boots - sideways not vertical. If you want to improve the Classic, on a budget, then go with some of the popular mods (brass dispersion plate, PID, Silvia steam wand, etc.)
> 
> PID is especially valuable and beneficial on a Classic (or Silvia).


This ^^^^^


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

The larger boiler size of the Silvia, with it being 300mls compared to the boiler of the classic being little over 100mls gives it the advantage when pulling a shot because it has better thermal stability due to the fact it doesnt have such a percentage of cold water entering the boiler when pulling a shot


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Unless you've got a boiler under PID control, you can completely ignore whether 120ml or 300ml of water in the boiler makes any difference... it's simply going to be more water at the wrong temperature.

As previous, it's a sideways move - and whilst a nicer machine with some improvements, it's not a significant upgrade, and you could make better use of the funds to improve the Classic to be better than a standard Silvia.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> The larger boiler size of the Silvia, with it being 300mls compared to the boiler of the classic being little over 100mls gives it the advantage when pulling a shot because it has better thermal stability due to the fact it doesnt have such a percentage of cold water entering the boiler when pulling a shot


I owned a Slivia - it has awful temp stability - bigger boiler or no - you still need to go through the paff of temp surfing - the deadband on the so called thermostat is probably +/-5c each way ...i think your making assumptions based on reading marketing blurb or a suppliers spec sheet...

If you want to " upgrade " and get rid of some fo the frustrations that a gaggia has - ( temp surfing - slow steaming - can only do one thing at once ) then a Slivia won't do it ...

If you want to make life easier for yourself - have a machine that is temp stable ( crucial in espresso making ) - auto fills and doesn't burn the element out etc etc etc , then the Silvia also isn't it

If you want to spend £300-400 on a "bigger boiler " silvia , go for it , but its not money well spent


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> i think your making assumptions based on reading marketing blurb or a suppliers spec sheet...


you assuming im making an assumption, that made me laugh









Its a mathematical equation boots, 100mls boiler getting 30mls of cold water coming into it when you are draining the hot water out whilst pulling a standard shot is 30% of its capacity filled with cold water.

With the silvia it will be only 10% cold water entering and altering the temperature inside the boiler.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> you assuming im making an assumption, that made me laugh
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Buy a machine based on a maths formula or owner experience - I''l leave it to the OP to decide









Oh and the thermostat still has a dead band in it that means the temp is unstable at extraction


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

You could probably poor 100ml of cold water into a standard Silvia before the thermostat woke up and did anything about it - meanwhile it's pumping out luke-warm water. You could poor 10ml of cold water into a PID classic and the elements would be on, and it'd be pouring out water that's very close to the set temperature.

This is getting boring... a Silvia is a nicer machine to own, yes, but it's not going to improve the OPs coffee much (if at all), remove any frustrations of SBDU machines or improve the workflow experience in the slightest.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

If anyone is interested here are some graphs showing the temperature drop recorded during test shots pulled on the machines in question.

The only interest was in the temperature stability during the shot, no attempt at temperature surfing was made, so the starting temperatures were random and conducted during the element off period.

The results for the Silvia can be found here.

The results for the Classic can be found here.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I give up....you still have to temp

Surf to get to a guestimate temp at the start . This isn't worth £2-300 more than a second gaggia


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Im getting nothing from those links

just a blank webpage loading

might I add, i find your signature very strange


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/mjfernee/Classic/StandardClassic2shots.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/mjfernee/Classic/Silvia2shots.jpg


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I give up too - buy a Silvia, whatever, if it shuts him up.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/mjfernee/Classic/StandardClassic2shots.jpg
> 
> http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/mjfernee/Classic/Silvia2shots.jpg


nothing from those either

connection reset


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

MrShades said:


> I give up too - buy a Silvia, whatever, if it shuts him up.


Maybe this will shut you up

Very linear temp reading from the silvia, not so from the gaggia.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

I have a Gaggia Classic and wouldn't consider the Silva as my next machine it would be pointless and the advance minimal.

As a first entry level as a ohhhh shall I get a Gaggia or a Rancilio choice maybe yes choose the Rancilio over the Gaggia if you have the bucks. I ended up with a Gaggia as my old machine broke and didn't have the cash for a Rancilio. I didn't have the knowledge either as I was new.

I kinda wish I had waited a month or two and got the Rancilio as an *alternative *however I would never ever consider buying one as an *upgrade* from the Gaggia I have now.

I would deffo wait, save and even hang out for a possible secondhand bargain from here for a machine that could be considered a worthy and really *noticeable upgrade* rather than buy a Rancilio, have small improvements in the cup and be wanting to upgrade to something else very quickly again no doubt.

A worthy Gaggia alternative slightly better than yes a long lasting and worthy upgrade no.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Plus one on what Sk8 bizarre says.

If you're looking purely at the quality of espresso shots I'd say there isn't much in it.

I own a Silvia. The very same one boots has owned actually, and have a good friend who has the Gaggia and I reckon they are very close .... however, there are a number of things that are much better on the Silvia.

The steam wand is, in my opinion, much better on the Silvia, and I don't like the weird pressurised portafilter on the Gaggia at all. These are just my opinion.

What is fact is that if you open the two machines up a lot of the parts are better on the Silvia and it's put together better. The thermostat is similar if not exactly the same, but the boiler is bigger on my Silvia and brass whereas if my memory serves me correctly the Gaggia that my friend has is aluminium which I wouldn't want to own. The Silvia is just more substantial, and I'm told newer Gaggia's are of an even lower quality internally speaking.

Would I consider these thing's an upgrade? No. As boots says, the temp isn't really any more stable in practise ( I don't know about the science, just personal experience ) than the Gaggia and because they are both basic single boilers the limitations for steaming milk when pulling shot's come into play.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

nickrorschach said:


> ...over a Gaggia Classic (4 year old model), if an upgrade at all?
> 
> Thank you very much.


You would bump your head pretty quick if choosing it as an upgrade...

Look I read all the other replies....the long and short of it is you have upgraditis. you have realised you want, nay need something a lot better. The Silvia won't help for very long..like about a week. Save up get something nice, something that works really well. There is where you were going with the Silvia which is to the next larger Village, but why not go to a town....you know you want to.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

If you need to upgrade right now; use that money to get yourself a better grinder. Not knowing what you have currently means i can't recommend what to do next but you can get a Super Jolly or a Brasilia RR55OD. The RR55OD is a great buy in that price as it has great 63mm burrs and all the convenience of an on demand grinder.

There is currently one for sale in the For Sale section:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?26446-FS-Brasilia-rr55OD-grinder&highlight=rr55od


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Save up get something nice, something that works really well.


Fully agree with the above. I've recently upgraded from a Gaggia Classic which I had for over 3 years and did all the recommended mods. I have a good friend who has a Silvia, and we both agree they are comparable machines on the same league.

In my opinion, the next relevant upgrade is on the HX / DB territory, specially if you like milk based drinks.

Good luck, and don't overlook the grinder.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

I had a standard Classic for years & my friend brought his Sylvia around & we compared shots. There was no difference in taste, which is what it is all about. Yes the Sylvia is a better built machine but that's where it ends, graphs or no graphs. It's taste buds which matter.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Grinder first whatever.

I'm probably not going to help much with the next couple of sentences but they are my findings:

I went from basic modded Classic to PIDed Silvia to HX E61. I had a good grinder from day one. Biggest leap in taste in terms of machine for me was Classic to PIDed Silvia.

I honestly can't say I've noticed any increase in quality of my shots from the Silvia to the Hx E61.

The joy of upgraditus is getting the machine your heart (and eyes) desire. Take note of what other people with experience say but if you want a Silvia then get one.


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