# Fracino Classic 'restoration' thread.. Help needed!



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Evening all! Picked this up today, excited to get it brewing but it needs some love first...




























The people I bought it from were just using it for hot water and steam...

So.. It turns on, lights up, and produces steam from the wand (hell of a lot of it too! Full commercial machine without a doubt!) And hot water from the tap. Gets to 1 bar on the boiler gauge in 10 mins ish. You can hear the pstat cutting the element in and out.

However, no coffee.. nothing happens with both switches on.. The boiler was full half way when I got it, and maybe I've not run it low enough to make it refill, (the green light in the sight glass stays on) but I don't think I've heard the pump run yet. Wondering if tap pressure was enough to refill the boiler and at least that showed the inlet solenoid was working?

First obvious thing inside is the thermocoupley looking thing isn't attached to anything but can't obviously see where it goes !

Any help gratefully received. . Very interested to see how a 7 litre boiler, e61 ish group and rotary pump taste!

Cheers,

James


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Was this the one advertised on fleabay as water/steam only?


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Nope... hell of a thing though! Wasnt prepared for its size and weight compared to 'prosumer' machines!

I'm wondering if that probe is for water level? There is a steam leak from the top of the sight glass as it gets warm?!?!


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Looking at the wiring diagram, not much it can be really! Either the Motor and or its capacitor is faulty or group solenoid FC125 which is energised when you flick the brew switch is up the swanny. Will see if the motor spins tomorrow. if it does then i guess its a new solenoid and a motor capacitor!


----------



## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

That long "probe" is the overheat sensor for the boiler element. It is inserted into the tube on the base of the element. Be careful the bare capillary tube wire doesn't touch any of the element connectors - if necessary wrrap some insulating tape around the wire....

Disconnect the boiler level probe (blue taped connector): The pump should start. If not then the pump head may have seized, or the starter capacitor failed.

There should be enough mains water pressure to refill the boiler, so the inlet solenoid valve may be jammed / faulty.

Also, if it won't "make coffee", the group solenoid may be blocked up /faulty, or the group head itself may be scaled up.

Lots of checks & tests to be done, I'm afraid !!


----------



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

If you need s new group seal, contact Fracino and check the serial number with them. Some of these second generation models that you have here had a slightly different group requiring a 7.5mm seal as opposed to 8mm. You will need to check with them.


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

@espressotechno thanks - are you sure its not a level probe? On the wiring diagram and parts diagrams, the only probe is one that sits in the sight glass?

@CamV6 thanks - the PF I have goes rather too far before sealing so i'll need a new one!

Got the sides off... if I put a screwdriver on the back of the pump then I can get the shaft to 'rattle' but not turn more than a degree or two each way so will split pump and head and see what I find as I guess there is an issue there.


----------



## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes -the fat metal tube is the element overheat sensor: If you look at the boiler element base you'll see the hole it fits into.

On your machine the boiler level probe is the blue taped wire going into the white teflon insulator on the top of the boiler.

If you can't turn the pump motor shaft easily by hand, then the pumphead has seized. Fit a new one (they're not repairable) & a new starter capacitor also.

The anti-vacuum valve sits on top of the sight glass - sounds as if it's leaking....


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

espressotechno said:


> That long "probe" is the overheat sensor for the boiler element. It is inserted into the tube on the base of the element. Be careful the bare capillary tube wire doesn't touch any of the element connectors - if necessary wrrap some insulating tape around the wire....


Be very careful about the wire touching the element connectors....


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

@espressotechno - thanks again for your help. Ive split the pump and head and the head is solid so will order a new one up. And yes, the antivacuum valve is leaking.. Will also get a new capacitor.

With the pumphead off, I still cant get the pump to fire up. So either capacitor or brewhead solenoid is gone?

P.S. looks like no separate inlet solenoid? thought that would be before pump inlet?

@jeebsy thnaks... was that what happened on your rancilio?!


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

To add.. When you hit the brew switch there is a solenoidy / relay type buzzing from the black box unit which I assume is it trying to send power down to the motor?

Also assume inlet solenoid is the little guy on the other side..



















Oh and still can't see a home for that probe!!










New pump head, anti vac valve, pump capacitor and grouphead seal ordered.. hopefully that should get it running!!! Nice man at espresso underground thinks that as I can hear a buzzing with the brew switch on then the capacitor is fried.. hope so!

interestingly 8 and 10 were back to front on the main black box. have swapped them back..


----------



## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Disconnect the water level probe wire & switch on: If the motor doesn't run then the control box is probably faulty (give it a few taps...). Without the pumphead, the motor doesn't need the capacitor for a testrun.

A multimeter can be used to check the 230v from the control box to the pump etc.

Re. Pic: The element base doesn't have a hole for the overheat capillary tube, so just get rid off the whole capillary assembly: Rewire the cables to/from the capillary switch box (white cube with button) to bypass it.


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Thanks again.. jury rigged the water supply to see what else works earlier. boiler filling working fine. cuts off and refills on the solenoid as needed. Left it heating up for a while and after bleeding the top pipe boiler to e91 the grouphead got too hot too touch, so I'm pleased the thermosyphon isnt blocked.

I Had hoped with the brew switch pressed and mains water pressure behind it, there might be something from the grouphead, but there isnt. Kinda thinking the group solenoid will need cleaning as I can clearly hear it clicking when brew is pressed. Cant get pump to turn. Will disable the probe and box tomorrow..


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Bits all arrived.. however with 240v directly down to the pump motor it doesnt spin, so I guess its burnt out. Balls! Still.. it was a gamble and not too much money. So new pump ordered. Turning into a full rebuild this!!


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Would it not be worth examining the pump motor first, if burnt out ditch it otherwise keep keep as spare.


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

I'll keep it and probably get it rewound.. wasnt really planning on putting £200 into this in parts but looking forward to brewing on it, and at least i'll have been through it and itll have a new, clean pump and motor. Had it on all afternoon yesterday and everything else seems to be good - buckets of hot water, mega steam and too hot to touch grouphead. Inlet solenoid working well too. Patience is not my strong suit though!


----------



## Brewer in training (Feb 7, 2015)

Taff said:


> Patience is not my strong suit though!


You n me both....... I was hoping it would be finished by now!

Lol!

Look at it this way, if you were restoring a classic car or motorbike you would spend more time and money on something you would use less.........

200 pounds for a bulletproof machine rebuild you know you can trust isn't that bad............

Good luck and keep the photos coming please.......


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Update! got the new pump in today.. connected to the new head and it's all gravy in that department.. she purrs like a kitten!










....However. .. still nothing at the group head. .. took the decision to pull out the group head and found what I think is the gicleur? Blocked..










All now soaking in descaler. . More news when I have it folks!


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Descaler can weaken/remove the chrome finish, dont leave it in too long. It is better to block up the exits and just pour descaler into it.


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

@Dylan thanks - I'd read but forgotten that.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The bits going to the solenoid look pretty scaled, some of the holes are tiny so worth double checking everything is clear


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

There wasn't a lot in it really @jeebsy I was surprised. All back together now and we have water from the group head!

....However it doesn't stop... The spring on the group solenoid is broken and I can't be sure if that solenoid is working or not so think I'll spend another 30quid and be sure. Still at least I now have a choice of high or low pressure from the group, rather than none at all lol.

Another pic.. because we all like a pic .. current status. Loving how quiet the rotary is. Can't see me buying a vibe machine again!


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Boom! She brews coffee! New brew solenoid and we're off. No idea what the Pstat setting is like, and turned the new pump down to 8.5ish bar..

..and the coffee? Surprisingly good! Didnt need a huge grind adjustment, but there is a surprisingly positive taste difference. Havent really dialled it in yet (only had 4 shots from it!) but they seem smoother and whith more definite & separated flavours.

Oh, and steaming milk in less than 10s is hilarious! I'm surprised how big the gap is between prosumer and commercial..

Worth all the work and ££'s!


----------



## salty dog (Jun 6, 2015)

Hey, well done Taff! Now that you have two coffee machines at your business place, are you changing over to selling coffee instead of the day job!


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Couldn't put up with the stainless any more. .. side panels are being powder coated to match the Royal I'm restoring..


----------



## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Final post to close off this thread.. machine painted and side panels powder coated to match the refurbed royal it's now paired with!!


----------



## Brewer in training (Feb 7, 2015)

Nice shade of red.......

Looking good.....

Well done that man......

Trying hard to find the time to getting round to finally putting my machine and grinder back together............ Suppose spending free time reading the forum could be better spent in the garage.........


----------



## degsey (Jan 1, 2015)

Yes well done Taff's. I love watching these restro threads. I hope to do one in the future but at the moment I have too many unfinished projects. Love the machine btw


----------

