# HELP! Sage Oracle Touch: Dry Puck & No Crema



## FJRTJS (Aug 28, 2020)

I'm struggling here:

After upgrading from a Sage Barista Touch to an Oracle Touch I now find my pucks to be dry - all the time ... they don't come out into the knock box and only the upper part seems to get wet.

Now, ... the coffee appears to be under-extracted and comes out with a poor crema. What is puzzling me is that this doesn't seem to change much when playing around with the grind size. Yes, if I go straight down in grind size (less than 18), it becomes over extracted as you would expect and Yes, if I go to the other extreme (35 and over) it becomes over extracted - also as you would expect.

But where it really stumps me is that you would expect that somewhere in that middle ground - between let's say 20 and 30 in grind size, you would expect to find a nice, balanced extraction. But it doesn't seem to be there. I can't find it. It is always either watery, under-extracted or bitter and over-extracted. And even when extraction seems to start at the right time (between 8-12 secs) it always rat-tails and never seems to be warm honey like.

*So, ... what I could really do with is some suggestions from this forum about what to do. *



I have taken my machine back to factory settings and I am ready to start from scratch (meaning grind size 30, extraction for double shot 30 sec.)


I would like to produce a double-shot flat white


My beans are Ruvumbu 035 from Rwanda, 1700 MASL


*ANY HELP, THOUGHTS, SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME! *


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## Se99jmk (Aug 30, 2020)

What dose do you have? Could adjust the tamp fan to adjust the dose, which may also get you closer or farther from the shower screen?

I have the opposite problem, properly soupy pucks and a load of wet grounds left all over the shower screen!


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## FJRTJS (Aug 28, 2020)

Thanks for responding ... I'm thinking the same although in all honesty, I'm a little hesitant to start adjusting the tamp fan. I know you can but I'm afraid I might be opening a can of worms once I start tinkering with that.

When I read your reply, you raise something that I hadn't considered: that perhaps the dose/tamp fan location is actually to high which means the puck sits so (or should I say 'too tight'?) close to the shower screen that it barely gets extracted. Interesting!

That said, if there is anything you can share with me on adjusting the tamp fan or point me in direction of a decent How-To, then I'd be much obliged.

Certainly hope you can reverse your own problem ... hassle as it might be, I'd still take my dry puck over your soupy one.


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## Se99jmk (Aug 30, 2020)

I was worried about adjusting the tamp fan initially, but after doing it once it is SUPER easy to do

With the oracle touch:



Take out the portafilter


In your accessories tray, get the brush with the magnet on the end


Touch the magnet to the bottom of the tamp fan and gently pull out the fan


Reach inside and pull out the tamp fan adjust bit - a bit tighter


Use the Allen key to ease out the grub screw, then you can adjust the tamp fan height






This channel is the easiest, and has some great videos on maintenance too

Honestly, it's a LOT easier than it sounds...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Tamping is the least of your worries. Usually, dry puck + no crema = very stale coffee.

Which coffee are you using? What's the roast date?


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## FJRTJS (Aug 28, 2020)

Se99jmk said:


> I was worried about adjusting the tamp fan initially, but after doing it once it is SUPER easy to do
> 
> This channel is the easiest, and has some great videos on maintenance too
> 
> Honestly, it's a LOT easier than it sounds...


 That's really helpful, much appreciated - might need to get myself a cup of coffee and have good watch.


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## Se99jmk (Aug 30, 2020)

I watched like 8 videos before I tried it, but having done it, not as bad as I thought 😉


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## FJRTJS (Aug 28, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Tamping is the least of your worries. Usually, dry puck + no crema = very stale coffee.
> 
> Which coffee are you using? What's the roast date?


 I'm using freshly roasted coffee (literally roasted less than 5 days ago) from my local roaster/coffee shop. The odd thing is, I used to have a Barista Touch and that never gave me any problems or issues, neither with the same setting nor with the same coffee: with that machine, tapping out the coffee in the knock box was easy as pie.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

FJRTJS said:


> I'm using freshly roasted coffee (literally roasted less than 5 days ago) from my local roaster/coffee shop. The odd thing is, I used to have a Barista Touch and that never gave me any problems or issues, neither with the same setting nor with the same coffee: with that machine, tapping out the coffee in the knock box was easy as pie.


 Interesting. I have a Lelit Elizabeth. The Group is somewhat similar to the Sage you have. The pucks are very soggy, specially with a VST basket, but I do understand this is a function of the grinder I have and the coffee beans I'm using. It doesn't affect taste though.

The puck knocks out in one piece though. If you leave a few more seconds (like 30), it would dry up anyway.

When you say the screen is dirty, do you mean the shower screen? It is usually dirty for me. Occasionally, it isn't, but I don't find that a function of the puck wetness. I always rinse and clean it up afterwards though.


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## FJRTJS (Aug 28, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Interesting. I have a Lelit Elizabeth. The Group is somewhat similar to the Sage you have. The pucks are very soggy, specially with a VST basket, but I do understand this is a function of the grinder I have and the coffee beans I'm using. It doesn't affect taste though.
> 
> The puck knocks out in one piece though. If you leave a few more seconds (like 30), it would dry up anyway.
> 
> When you say the screen is dirty, do you mean the shower screen? It is usually dirty for me. Occasionally, it isn't, but I don't find that a function of the puck wetness. I always rinse and clean it up afterwards though.


 My main struggle is really how unbelievably hard and stuck the puck is, in the portafilter. Only just now, I needed to literally scrape it out. It's as if the coffee grinds have turned into cement. There is absolutely ZERO chance that I can casually knock the puck out.

And yet, ... the coffee actually tastes fine or - in terms of flavour - is no different to the ones I used to be able to get out of the Barista Touch.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

FJRTJS said:


> My main struggle is really how unbelievably hard and stuck the puck is, in the portafilter. Only just now, I needed to literally scrape it out. It's as if the coffee grinds have turned into cement. There is absolutely ZERO chance that I can casually knock the puck out.
> 
> And yet, ... the coffee actually tastes fine or - in terms of flavour - is no different to the ones I used to be able to get out of the Barista Touch.


 Would you mind send us a photo of what it looks like? Not that the scientific study of puckology matters, but, for the sake of debate, why not?

Try decreasing/increasing the dose and see if it helps.


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## rbonde (Oct 15, 2021)

FJRTJS said:


> My main struggle is really how unbelievably hard and stuck the puck is, in the portafilter. Only just now, I needed to literally scrape it out. It's as if the coffee grinds have turned into cement. There is absolutely ZERO chance that I can casually knock the puck out.
> 
> And yet, ... the coffee actually tastes fine or - in terms of flavour - is no different to the ones I used to be able to get out of the Barista Touch.


I'm having the exact same problem with my Sage one touch. Did you ever find a solution that worked for you?


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## rone (Feb 7, 2021)

I've had 3 oracle touch machines with various issues and all my problems went away when I did two things:

Leave the coffee at least 10 days from roast date.

And brew slightly under 2:1 shots (so 1.5-1.8)

Had loads of problems with inconsistent and bitterness and I tried everything in 12 months.


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