# Brewed



## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

What do you guys used for brewed?

I have been using a Hario, but it's not cut out for coarse grinding at all.

Do any of you guys use a dedicated second grinder for brew?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I use a Hario Slim but find it's pretty inconsistent at coarse settings. Toyed with the idea of getting a cheap burr grinder for brewed but it seems very wanton.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I have just been switching my m4 back and forward which is a PITA. Watching the madebyknock grinder with interest, may get it for brew.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

The knock grinder has ascaso espresso burrs, I think you can expect many fines as the burrs are pretty bi-modal.

I'm thinking about a vario with the bulk grinder burr mod, but that's some massive wonga.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> The knock grinder has ascaso espresso burrs, I think you can expect many fines as the burrs are pretty bi-modal.
> 
> I'm thinking about a vario with the bulk grinder burr mod, but that's some massive wonga.


Yeah, I'm not looking to spend that kind of money. It would be as good as my current grinder for pour over and would avoid me having to shift it off espresso grind.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Neill said:


> Yeah, I'm not looking to spend that kind of money. It would be as good as my current grinder for pour over and would avoid me having to shift it off espresso grind.


Any idea about something like a peoguot?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> Any idea about something like a peoguot?


No idea! Sorry.


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

I would have used my old Dualitt but I decided to donate it to my mother-in-law before I thought it through! Still, means I get nice freshly ground coffee whenever I stay there!

Now I rarely drink brewed but on the rare occasions I do I just note down where I had the grinder for espresso before adjusting it for the brew method in question so I can put it back where it was afterwards.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Porlex (modified) for work is pretty poor but the Baratza Maestro+ is alright. Still considering a ditting type beast for the kitchen


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 - What kind of brewing are you doing? Set the hario so the grind is as consistent as you can get & work with that. Most grinders become more bimodal as you get into espresso territory, they may be more unimodal at coarser settings.


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## yvv (Nov 1, 2013)

I use a Porlex as well and it's not good for an Espro. The grind is inconsistent and the taste is unrefined. Waiting for the Lido 2 to come out.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Kyle548 - What kind of brewing are you doing? Set the hario so the grind is as consistent as you can get & work with that. Most grinders become more bimodal as you get into espresso territory, they may be more unimodal at coarser settings.


V60, presspot, moka and aeropress

For the AP and moka the hario is fine, but there are too many fines for v60 and fp.

The v60 needs to be coarse or the flow is too slow and I get over extraction.

I think if the hario was more unimodal then I could grind tighter and get less over extraction.

As I grind coaser the grind becomes really inconsistent, if anything I would say a tighter grind is slightly more unimodal due to the less difference in size between biggest and smallest.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Describe your pour technique for V60.

You don't need to go coarse for FP, fines will be a virtual non-issue as long as you can keep a low level of silt out the cup (filter through the AP?). My Hario Slim grind for FP is like gritty sand/caster sugar at the coarsest, I don't secondary filter with this.

You can use a grind almost in espresso territory for v60, as long as you modify your pour technique by not pulsing, you have to fill & drain - whether or not you consider this ideal, it is what you have to do....unless you buy a Lido 2 ;-). You may also have to aim higher regarding brew ratio (start at 70g/l) & dilute down if the coffee is too strong. V60 only needs to be coarser if you pulse &/or are looking for a larger yield in volume from your dose. There is no "V60 grind" as such, just a grind that works with a technique, which in turn, may be dictated by grinder performance.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm not producing bad drinks, I'm just not producing great ones.

With FP I just about 1 click looser or even the same as a v60 grind and that works well, but I would like to steep longer.

As for a sludgy cup, I love the body of a FP and filtering it would ruin it. No, my main problem with fines is controling extraction.

V60 usually 200ml with 14g of grinds at a sandy grind.

Bloom with 30 for 30 then pour with slow pulses until I reach the target and aim for 2-3 min extraction.

I find that if I grind finer and get over 3 mins the coffee is too bitter.

I could updose, but I think a better grind would solve the issues with extraction on the tighter pour....



MWJB said:


> Describe your pour technique for V60.
> 
> You don't need to go coarse for FP, fines will be a virtual non-issue as long as you can keep a low level of silt out the cup (filter through the AP?). My Hario Slim grind for FP is like gritty sand/caster sugar at the coarsest, I don't secondary filter with this.
> 
> You can use a grind almost in espresso territory for v60, as long as you modify your pour technique by not pulsing, you have to fill & drain - whether or not you consider this ideal, it is what you have to do....unless you buy a Lido 2 ;-). You may also have to aim higher regarding brew ratio (start at 70g/l) & dilute down if the coffee is too strong. V60 only needs to be coarser if you pulse &/or are looking for a larger yield in volume from your dose. There is no "V60 grind" as such, just a grind that works with a technique, which in turn, may be dictated by grinder performance.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> I'm not producing bad drinks, I'm just not producing great ones.
> 
> With FP I just about 1 click looser or even the same as a v60 grind and that works well, but I would like to steep longer.
> 
> ...


You can steep longer with the FP, you only need to shorten the steep if you are looking for a specific level of extraction, yesterday's steep for me was 33minutes at a sandy grind, stoneware FP, still piping hot after steep...a shade under, but good nevertheless. I don't know how anybody overextracts a French press.

Overextraction (V60) isn't the difference between "not bad" & "not great"...it is a malfunction. Your coffee doesn't start out overextracted, it only gets that way because flow through the bed is too slow (pulse pouring) or you are putting too much water through it (doesn't sound like it). Until you get a grinder that does coarse, even grinds, stop pulse pouring - after blooming get all the water in in one go, spiral out then in, keep any water that you still have to add in the centre, small spirals. FWIW, I don't have a good coarse grinder at home (I keep the Lido at work), generally make V60s (+/- 0.5% yield at 19% extraction) with a fine grind & can't pulse pour for this very reason. If you are changing beans a lot, you're going to have to make adjustments, also as they age. Brewing off the cup can help (taste as you go)...I have a bit of a scales obsession, but I find it useful using a brew stand on scales, then a second set of scales under the cup to measure output from the brewer (because even if you add the same amount of water each time, the output can vary & it's the output that carries the extaction yield, like espresso).


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I'll play with my v60 tonight.

Only thing is I can't taste as I brew because I'm absolutely terrible at drinking a hot drink.

The drink needs to cool a lot before I can taste anything and not burn my tougne, also I have little to no sense of smell....

I don't think I actually know what coffee smells like....

This isn't a coffee thing, just a me thing.

Always hesitated to pour all the water in at once, was a little afraid the water would steep though the paper and not the grounds if the water is a lot higher than the bed.



MWJB said:


> You can steep longer with the FP, you only need to shorten the steep if you are looking for a specific level of extraction, yesterday's steep for me was 33minutes at a sandy grind, stoneware FP, still piping hot after steep...a shade under, but good nevertheless. I don't know how anybody overextracts a French press.
> 
> Overextraction (V60) isn't the difference between "not bad" & "not great"...it is a malfunction. Your coffee doesn't start out overextracted, it only gets that way because flow through the bed is too slow (pulse pouring) or you are putting too much water through it (doesn't sound like it). Until you get a grinder that does coarse, even grinds stop pulse pouring - after blooming get all the water in in one go, spriral out then in, keep any that you still have to add in the centre, small spirals. FWIW, I don't have a good coarse grinder at home (I keep the Lido at work), generally make V60s (+/- 0.5% yield at 19% extraction) with a fine grind & can't pulse pour for this very reason. If you are changing beans a lot, you're going to have to make adjustments, also as they age. Brewing off the cup can help (taste as you go)...I have a bit of a scales obsession, but I find it useful using a brew stand on scales, then a second set of scales under the cup to measure output from the brewer (because even if you add the same amount of water each time, the output can vary & it's the output that carries the extaction yield, like espresso).


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> Always hesitated to pour all the water in at once, was a little afraid the water would steep though the paper and not the grounds if the water is a lot higher than the bed.


Pour vigorously when spiralling out after the bloom, so you wash the grinds up the side of the filter, after a couple of brews you'll see how far the water rises before the tide mark...sure, you don't want it way above the line of grounds. If the brewer isn't big enough to get all the water in in one go (01), scale down amounts used.

After the brew is done, the brewer, bed & kettle will all hold some heat...so you may have time to spoon/pour out some coffee into a cold cup, swill it for a few seconds to get the temp down to tepid, then taste...if it's really under, you can then pulse another 15-20g though the bed (right in the middle) & see if that improves matters?


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## Flibster (Aug 15, 2010)

Currently an MC2, but when away from home I've got a Hario Skerton that pairs with either my Aeropress or Kantans.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

With one big pour, I could tighten the grind quite a lot and come in just over 2 mins.

The cup was a lot more earthy.

Still plenty of berries from the HB yigacheffe, but a darker berry, sort of like a Black Forrest where before I often had a lot of acidity pulse pouring with a coarse grind.

Compared to the fine grind and pulse pour, a lot better.



MWJB said:


> Pour vigorously when spiralling out after the bloom, so you wash the grinds up the side of the filter, after a couple of brews you'll see how far the water rises before the tide mark...sure, you don't want it way above the line of grounds. If the brewer isn't big enough to get all the water in in one go (01), scale down amounts used.
> 
> After the brew is done, the brewer, bed & kettle will all hold some heat...so you may have time to spoon/pour out some coffee into a cold cup, swill it for a few seconds to get the temp down to tepid, then taste...if it's really under, you can then pulse another 15-20g though the bed (right in the middle) & see if that improves matters?


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