# Subscription Woes, bad beans?



## Skeincaffiene (Feb 24, 2019)

Hi

I've just joined an online coffee subscription service and I have some questions about the beans I received. To me they both taste bad, really bad, like burnt grapefruit. I'm brewing them in a cheap Moka pot with tap water. I can't go near them without milk. even then its a challenge. My friend recently brought me some Blue Mountain and Dalat coffee from Vietnam and those were beautiful.

Is their something wrong with me?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Skeincaffiene said:


> Hi
> 
> I've just joined an online coffee subscription service and I have some questions about the beans I received. Has anyone had any experience with...
> 
> ...


Can you grind finer?

Make sure to watch the pot, with the lid open, kill the brew at the first puff of steam from the centre pipe.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Maybe you just don't like the taste? Do you like fruity/citrus/chocolate . . .

You could try asking the roaster for their recipe or method most suited to each bean. It's a shame you've had a bad experience.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

What is the roast date? They may be too fresh?


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## Junglebert (Jan 7, 2019)

Every cup I've ever had from a moka pot tasted burnt, even when I didn't fall asleep while it was brewing.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Assuming this is Dog and hat subscription, you could probably leave the beans another couple of days at least.

Dog and hat are brilliant at replying to emails/social media, they will do what they can to help you with your brewing of these beans!

Also, as someone mentioned above, what grinder are you using and have you tried adjusting?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

& warned in their booklet the Horsham beans need longer to degas due to the roaster they use. Something about it recycling the air which creates an oxygen deficient environment within the roaster.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

I've tried the East Timor. I like it. It needs more of a rest really but I was out of beans when it arrived and I opened them before I realised it needs extended resting.

Sorry I can't be of more help. These are quite bright beans. Maybe that isn't your preference?


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Don't forget though, that genuine Blue Mountain coffee will cost you anywhere between 4 and 10 times the dog and hat beans, so not really a fair comparison.

I've not seen any Dalat coffee. Most of the Vietnamese beans are cheap robusta. I'm assuming yours are different?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hard to tell without a little more info on grinder and or brewing. Probably not to your normal preference doesn't mean we can't help tweak your brewing a little to see if can enjoy them more tho.

Bad beans , no.

Alot of blue mountain isn't genuine , it's price is high , although more of reflection of scarcity than quality per se.

Blue mountain is very coffee tasting coffee.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hard to tell without a little more info on grinder and or brewing. Probably not to your normal preference doesn't mean we can't help tweak your brewing a little to see if can enjoy them more tho.
> 
> Bad beans , no.
> 
> ...


That's assuming it's Jamaica Blue Mountain. Don't think Kenya Blue Mountain is as expensive.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> That's assuming it's Jamaica Blue Mountain. Don't think Kenya Blue Mountain is as expensive.


Fake blue mountain is probably very "coffee" flavour like


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

If they are the same batch as mine, they were roasted on 18/02 so they haven't had time to rest.

Reading the tasting notes, I would be surprised if they both tasted the same.

Ive enjoyed coffee from both roasters in the past. They have good reputations.

What tasting notes do you enjoy in coffee ? Do you buy darker or lighter roasted means normally ?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Different bean but I have had some with a burnt taste. The smell was clearly evident. 6 days in a vented bean can and taste and smell went. Oddly the same bean needs this when it arrives without the burnt smell.

John

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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I am always surprised at the legs on threads like this....



Skeincaffiene said:


> Hi
> 
> I've just joined an online coffee subscription service and I have some questions about the beans I received. Has anyone had any experience with...
> 
> ...


Hi welcome to the forum, you should tell us a bit about yourself and your experience of coffee, it helps us understand a 1st post a little better?

1. Were the beans pre-ground, if not what grinder did you use

2. How old were they, when were they roasted, what batch were they from

3. Was the coffee your friend bought you pre-ground, how old was it.

4. Did you bother with any other ways of preparing the coffee you didn't like

5. Have you had them before and this batch was different, hence your question

6. Do you have a photo of the beans so people can compare/have a look

7. Have you expressed your concerns to both roasters before posting here

8. If you did express your concerns, what was their response

9. I think the only thing wrong with you is a lack of thought and consideration for those businesses and effort to provide information before posting!

I suppose the above questions are part of the reason I am surprised threads like this get the consideration they don't deserve....regardless of whether the roasters advertise on here or not.


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## Skeincaffiene (Feb 24, 2019)

Thanks for your replies. I will give them a rest and see if that works out. I'm grinding them as fine as a can in a manual grinder and brewing them as espresso in a 4-cup Moka pot. I guess I wasn't prepared for how different some coffee's can taste. I'm sure its not just bad beans. I've had another one this morning and I got a bit more used to the taste. They are still really bitter though, metallic like. I was expecting something akin to dark chocolate. Thanks for all your input. I'll keep drinking and hopefully they will grow on me. I'll check all the dates too.

I do apologize about blaming to the roasters. Maybe I can delete that. I'll try to. I just thought it easiest way to some information. if people knew the exact beans I had.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Skeincaffiene said:


> Thanks for your replies. I will give them a rest and see if that works out. I'm grinding them as fine as a can in a manual grinder and brewing them as espresso in a 4-cup Moka pot. I guess I wasn't prepared for how different some coffee's can taste. I'm sure its not just bad beans. I've had another one this morning and I got a bit more used to the taste. They are still really bitter though, metallic like. I was expecting something akin to dark chocolate. Thanks for all your input. I'll keep drinking and hopefully they will grow on me. I'll check all the dates too.


Which grinder?


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Skeincaffiene said:


> Thanks for your replies. I will give them a rest and see if that works out. I'm grinding them as fine as a can in a manual grinder and brewing them as espresso in a 4-cup Moka pot. I guess I wasn't prepared for how different some coffee's can taste. I'm sure its not just bad beans. I've had another one this morning and I got a bit more used to the taste. They are still really bitter though, metallic like. I was expecting something akin to dark chocolate. Thanks for all your input. I'll keep drinking and hopefully they will grow on me.


I don't know a huge amount Moka pots as I stopped using mine when I bought my espresso machine. I am sure though that grinding very fine and sticking it in a moka pot will not make espresso, but instead an overextracted gloopy (lots would get through the filter as it's not a fine mesh) substance, which I too would not enjoy drinking.

If I were to use a moka pot now I would grind medium. Also, what hand grinder do you have? They can vary quite widely in quality!


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## Skeincaffiene (Feb 24, 2019)

This is my Grinder 'Midas, Conical burr mill, French press, Turkish....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075WX6ZNM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think I could be over-extracting it. I'm using the finest grind I can. It matches up with the taste I'm getting. Really bitter and sour. I will try a less fine grind see if that makes a difference.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Skeincaffiene said:


> I was expecting something akin to dark chocolate.


Youre not going to get dark chocolate from either of these beans.

Quarter Horse tasting notes are orange marmalade, strawberry, hibiscus with lemon acidity

Horsham - Peach Apricot and caramelised sugar


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Skeincaffiene said:


> This is my Grinder 'Midas, Conical burr mill, French press, Turkish....
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075WX6ZNM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I think I could be over-extracting it. I'm using the finest grind I can. It matches up with the taste I'm getting. Really bitter and sour. I will try a less fine grind see if that makes a difference.


Are you able to identify a difference between bitter and sour?

I feel like this is a wind up now considering dark chocolate isn't even a tasting note as mentioned above


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Skeincaffiene said:


> This is my Grinder 'Midas, Conical burr mill, French press, Turkish....
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B075WX6ZNM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I think I could be over-extracting it. I'm using the finest grind I can. It matches up with the taste I'm getting. Really bitter and sour. I will try a less fine grind see if that makes a difference.


If it's sour, it is likely that you are under-extracting. Even if you have bitterness as well.

There aren't many grinders that I wouldn't recommend, but unfortunately that is one of them. They're not built to the same tolerances as even Porlex/Rhino/Hario. This may matter less at coarser settings, but you need to be pretty fine for Moka pot & trying to go fine with this will give you a lot of bittering silt in the cup.

I'd really look to get a better grinder for this method, Aergrind, Feldgrind (from a reseller, not from Made by Knock direct), or even Wilfa conical?


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## DogandHat (Aug 28, 2017)

Skeincaffiene said:


> Thanks for your replies. I will give them a rest and see if that works out. I'm grinding them as fine as a can in a manual grinder and brewing them as espresso in a 4-cup Moka pot. I guess I wasn't prepared for how different some coffee's can taste. I'm sure its not just bad beans. I've had another one this morning and I got a bit more used to the taste. They are still really bitter though, metallic like. I was expecting something akin to dark chocolate. Thanks for all your input. I'll keep drinking and hopefully they will grow on me. I'll check all the dates too.
> 
> I do apologize about blaming to the roasters. Maybe I can delete that. I'll try to. I just thought it easiest way to some information. if people knew the exact beans I had.


Hi there, Su from Dog & Hat, any help you need drop me a line [email protected] for any advice at all, I can send you over a few recipes perhaps.

Thanks Su


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> If it's sour, it is likely that you are under-extracting. Even if you have bitterness as well.
> 
> There aren't many grinders that I wouldn't recommend, but unfortunately that is one of them. They're not built to the same tolerances as even Porlex/Rhino/Hario. This may matter less at coarser settings, but you need to be pretty fine for Moka pot & trying to go fine with this will give you a lot of bittering silt in the cup.
> 
> I'd really look to get a better grinder for this method, Aergrind, Feldgrind (from a reseller, not from Made by Knock direct), or even Wilfa conical?


Junk burrs and poor location can have a "bitter" effect - way too many fines and if a fine grind is needed too coarse an adjustment. If you want to stay at the cheaper end of hand grinders it might be best to try and find one that uses steel burrs. Can't offer any suggestions but at least if bought from Amazon it can be sent back.

John

-


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Junk burrs and poor location can have a "bitter" effect - way too many fines and if a fine grind is needed too coarse an adjustment. If you want to stay at the cheaper end of hand grinders it might be best to try and find one that uses steel burrs. Can't offer any suggestions but at least if bought from Amazon it can be sent back.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I tend to keep my burrs in the same location as the rest of the grinder, I've never tried grinding in Dartford though, maybe I should. As they say, "location, location, location".


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> I tend to keep my burrs in the same location as the rest of the grinder, I've never tried grinding in Dartford though, maybe I should. As they say, "location, location, location".


LOL A number if engineers of a certain type would know exactly what I meant. In your case you could throw your burr some distance. Measure the distance with a laser range finder and angles with theodolite and then know where it was within a certain precision. Or you could walk up to it with a gps position sensor and locate it to some precision that way or if you had a certain type even more accurately. As per many dictionaries you could locate your clock in the centre of the mantle piece







and then measure it's position to see just how good it's location is.

John

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

This thread. I'm lost . . ,


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ajohn said:


> LOL A number if engineers of a certain type would know exactly what I meant.
> 
> John
> 
> -


In Narnia ?


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Are planets aligned


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## Skeincaffiene (Feb 24, 2019)

Thankyou for all the input. I will try and invest in a better grinder. One thing for certain is that its not bad beans so the title of the thread is a bit slanderous, and should be disregarded. Thanks again for all your advice.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Just opened the quarter house beans and they are spot on.

Lemon acidity but not over the top.

Quite a fruity bean, no hint of anything burnt

Maybe the OP would prefer Dog & Hats new medium to dark roast subscription


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