# Recommend Beans for Latte please??



## anygreg

Having started out my coffee quest searching for a great bean to use for Latte's, i think i need some assistance in order to get nearer to finding the best bean for the job!

Have spent a few £'s trying different beans from various online roasters, with some sucsess but still havent quite hit the nail on the head with the best/right taste.

Tried the Has Bean beans, but just couldnt get them to work right in milk (ordered begining of 2012), i tried Bolivia Finca Machacamarca de Berengula 2012 , Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira da Grama Bourbon Pulped Natural 2012 and Colombia Oporapa.

Just never got on with them, some tasted very acidic, and got kind of lost in the milk, to the point where i was contemplating calling them to ask if there was a problem with the batch?? Just put it down to experience..

Moved over to Coffee bean shop and had better results, am currently using there Sumatra manhandling, which does seem to cut through the milk ok, but again just hasn't hit the spot.

So my thought is, if I try and explain what I am looking for, I am hoping some of you may be able to help educate and steer me in a better direction&#8230;

If I could replicate a latte similar to a Starbucks tasting latte (as to my taste that is spot on) I would be a happy chappy, I'm thinking these are more caramel in flavour??

Thanks for reading and I look forward to any and all reply's&#8230;


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## garydyke1

What ratio of coffee to milk are are you using.

Cachoeira is outstanding in milk i'm suprised you havent had success.

If you think a Starbucks latte is the ultimate in taste then perhaps seek some of their beans?


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## Callum_T

Not so much latte but I'm loving red brick in a flat white-ish ratio (I'd rather have it topped up to 6 oz probably, I like a coffee with milk not milk with coffee!)

16.8g dry in - 25g espresso out in 25 sec and topped up to 7oz with milk

Yummy, haha beens are now on their 8th day of age and everything is silky silky smooth

*Edit add on!*- I think the red brick double topped up to 7oz is similar in strength to sbs - providing you don't ask for extra shots. Even with my classic I'd say this combo easily beats any sbs latte I've ever had...


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## tribs

If you are looking for a latte similar to Starbucks then you probably want a darker roast. Give some of the Union dark roasts a try. Revelation and Foundation work well in this style of drink.


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## Callum_T

True, I suppose it depends on what size drink you expect to make. If you expected a medium roast espresso to hold up in even 12oz it most likely would be lost.

7oz sounds tiny, but quality > quantity right?


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## reneb

Bright Note from Union also works really well in milk based drinks.

Another alternative is James Gourmet http://www.jamesgourmetcoffee.com/ and something like Formula 6, Colonel Grumpy's Chapin Blend, or Caffe Naturelle.


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## anygreg

garydyke1 said:


> What ratio of coffee to milk are are you using.
> 
> Cachoeira is outstanding in milk i'm suprised you havent had success.
> 
> If you think a Starbucks latte is the ultimate in taste then perhaps seek some of their beans?


Hi, thanks for the reply...

Milk prob somewhere 50% 50%...but i am double shotting the expresso??

Im not saying the starbucks Latte is the ultimate (from my limited experince of course) but is a lot better tasting than my creations so far


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## Callum_T

anygreg said:


> Milk prob somewhere 50% 50%...but i am double shotting the expresso??


So your making ~4oz drinks? Or do you mean your doubling a double basket?


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## anygreg

Thanks guys for all the replies so far....brilliant response!!

i know taste is a very personal thing, but we all know when we have had a good one and also when we have had a bad one.

This coffee thing really is a science....and for the most can get a little over complicated, for me anyway...it almost seems like the more i read the less i know?? Im sure im not the only one.

But taste for me is all its about....achieving this just has so many variables...

My thinking is, if i can get it somewhere near ie starting with the right beans, then fine tuning it (milk ratio's etc etc) will result in me hitting the sweet or Latte spot









Will look at the union site (just put in the last bag of Manhandling beans today) have seen a lot of talk on the Red briick as well ....


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## anygreg

My glasses are 380 ml in size...so quite big i guess??


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## tribs

You know the base for any decent latte needs to be a decent espresso. If you have your technique wrong and are not pulling good shots then the latte's are not going to be good either. It might help if you start by telling us how you pull your espresso shots.


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## Callum_T

anygreg said:


> My glasses are 380 ml in size...so quite big i guess??


That's pushing on 14oz, this may explain why most of your drinks were lost?

Especially if you were dosing 14g dry in


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## tribs

Callum_T said:


> That's pushing on 14oz, this may explain why most of your drinks were lost?
> 
> Especially if you were dosing 14g dry in


What worries me most is that 50% of that is meant to be a double espresso


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## garydyke1

Callum_T said:


> 7oz sounds tiny, but quality > quantity right?


I believe the OP likes Starbucks, so retract that comment ; )


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## Callum_T

Mutual tribs, when I got hooked I used to over extract soley because I was on the quantity side of things.

What I'd do is get some nice small porcelain cups / or glasses around the 7oz mark, then some eBay scales.

Weigh dry grounds in - and weigh espresso out and time the extraction. It's all the standard advice really


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## Callum_T

garydyke1 said:


> I believe the OP likes Starbucks, so retract that comment ; )


It's like high school bullying all over - you big cyber bully.


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## anygreg

Callum_T said:


> Mutual tribs, when I got hooked I used to over extract soley because I was on the quantity side of things.
> 
> What I'd do is get some nice small porcelain cups / or glasses around the 7oz mark, then some eBay scales.
> 
> Weigh dry grounds in - and weigh espresso out and time the extraction. It's all the standard advice really


I like this...

This is the feedback i have been looking for, guess i have the science part wrong, and making far to much quantity, which is affecting the quality.

Need to start from scratch and look at smaller glasses....just for me, a large latte in the morning hits the spot!


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## garydyke1

anygreg said:


> My glasses are 380 ml in size...so quite big i guess??


Huge! You would need a triple shot minimum for a lighter-medium roasted bean to cut through pushing the ratio out a little probably 20-21g into 38-40g output.

Where are you based? Have you tried any independant shops to try smaller 5-8oz drinks


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## garydyke1

Callum_T said:


> It's like high school bullying all over - you big cyber bully.


Forgive me but Starbucks are big enough and ugly enough to fend for themselves, do they do 5-8oz drinks?


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## anygreg

garydyke1 said:


> Huge! You would need a triple shot minimum for a lighter-medium roasted bean to cut through pushing the ratio out a little probably 20-21g into 38-40g output.
> 
> Where are you based? Have you tried any independant shops to try smaller 5-8oz drinks


Im in cheshire north west...any suggestions or recommendations in this area??


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## Callum_T

Anygreg, a properly extracted espresso in a 6oz flat white will give you a jump start.

I fully agree with Gary, try and find a local independent cafe and get sampling


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## anygreg

the reason i use starbucks as an example of my taste prefference is due to there comercial availablity, i am sure that forum members could produce without doubt a far superior tasting Latte than starbuck, it just i havent had the pleasure or opportunity...but am open to being educated


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## Callum_T

garydyke1 said:


> Forgive me but Starbucks are big enough and ugly enough to fend for themselves, do they do 5-8oz drinks?


I think the smallest they do is an 8oz - I'm just trying to help I'm still a squid but I do my share of the old linger and learn


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## anygreg

Callum_T said:


> linger and learn










I like this


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## tribs

anygreg said:


> Im in cheshire north west...any suggestions or recommendations in this area??


I work in Cheadle









Try Coffeefix, Gatley.


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## anygreg

Can anyone take me through the 101 for Latte making or making the perfect Latte ??

Probably a good place to start


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## garydyke1

Not quite Latte but a great video


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## tribs

Forget about latte. The starting point is espresso. You need to make the perfect espresso first, but it is not easy and requires plenty of practice.


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## Steve_S_T

anygreg said:


> My glasses are 380 ml in size...so quite big i guess??


On the basis that Latte is traditionally one part espresso to five parts steamed milk then the 380ml glass is perfect for a double shot (60ml) topped up with hot milk give or take 20ml.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## garydyke1

60ml would be a compromised shot though surely. Sacrificing quality for quantity is what the OP wants to get away from.

Ive just drunk a delcious double espresso perfect as a base for a milk-based drink such as a latte. Probably 40ml by volume (32g by weight) so would be a 240ml latte by that standard


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## Steve_S_T

Not disagreeing with you Gary, I'm not experienced enough to do that, but I based my comment on the fact that a double shot is traditionally considered to be 2oz/ 60ml. I know about weighing input and output etc and but thought that the many variables, such as size of basket used, amount of coffee in that basket and personal taste, will define the final weight and volume of an espresso anyway, hence the use of a generic 60ml double as the basis for my comment, but obviously if your double is 30% smaller then so too does your milk content and glass or cup need to be 30% less (if you maintain the 5:1 ratio).

Steve.


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## anygreg

garydyke1 said:


> Not quite Latte but a great video


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## anygreg

Thanks for all the feedback so far, i am begining to build a picture and formula for making the perfect Latte, and am already changing my thought on what 'I' thought was a latte...this is really usefull and helpfull stuff...

So with this in mind....what espresso bean should i start with...Red brick??


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## shrink

having tried quite a few beans of late, the one i'm really liking in milk, is allpress "redchurch"

its a little darker than hasbeans offerings, and as such a little heavy as a straight espresso. But in milk, the extra body comes in handy and it tastes ace.


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## garydyke1

anygreg said:


> So with this in mind....what espresso bean should i start with...Red brick??


That isnt going to be to your taste if you found Has Bean overly acidic or light


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## anygreg

garydyke1 said:


> That isnt going to be to your taste if you found Has Bean overly acidic or light


I have read varying reviews on consistency with Has beans beans, not sure if it still the case?? and this only comes from personal experience and what i have read on the forum


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## shrink

I would agree with the above... perhaps try blends like:

extract - original

allpress - redchurch

they are a bit darker, a bit richer and not as acidic. They feature more of the chocolate and roasted coffee notes than the fruitier offerings from hasbean (although i still love hasbeans oporapa and cachoeira in milk)

I like the OP started out on huge single shot 16oz latte's from starbucks, and with sugar. I needed this much milk to counteract the horrid coffee taste, but i just assumed thats what coffee tasted like!!

When i found independants that really cared about the coffee i found i could take two shots in a 12oz latte with ease, and eventually dropped off the sugar. Now i make 9oz latte's at home and enjoy a 6oz flat white on the way to work.

What its worth saying though, is that when at home, i always taste my shots before adding milk. As a control mechanism, so i now how acidic/bitter etc i'm getting my shots. Covering it in milk and then tasting wont help, as milk hides many many sins. Get into the habit of at least taking a tiny sip of your shot before you add milk. let it linger in the mouth and give you an idea of its taste profile.

Good example, my first shot this morning was overly bitter, i might not have noticed had I just added the milk. But i took it away, loosened up the grind a little, dosed up the shot and pulled again. Then the acidity came through, shot tasted strong but nice. It was time to add milk!

You'll get there in the end.


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## garydyke1

anygreg said:


> I have read varying reviews on consistency with Has beans beans, not sure if it still the case??


Do you mean quality or an approach to roast profiles?

Has Bean has NEVER been poor quality to my knowledg....though maybe not to everyones tastes from a roast-profile POV.


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## garydyke1

Steve_S_T said:


> Not disagreeing with you Gary, I'm not experienced enough to do that, but I based my comment on the fact that a double shot is traditionally considered to be 2oz/ 60ml. I know about weighing input and output etc and but thought that the many variables, such as size of basket used, amount of coffee in that basket and personal taste, will define the final weight and volume of an espresso anyway, hence the use of a generic 60ml double as the basis for my comment, but obviously if your double is 30% smaller then so too does your milk content and glass or cup need to be 30% less (if you maintain the 5:1 ratio).
> 
> Steve.


I encourage you to disagree , its all personal opinion/ taste ...there is no right and wrong.

Im also a Newb compared to many old-hands on this forum , I just follow my palate


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## anygreg

shrink said:


> I would agree with the above... perhaps try blends like:
> 
> extract - original
> 
> allpress - redchurch
> 
> they are a bit darker, a bit richer and not as acidic. They feature more of the chocolate and roasted coffee notes than the fruitier offerings from hasbean (although i still love hasbeans oporapa and cachoeira in milk)
> 
> I like the OP started out on huge single shot 16oz latte's from starbucks, and with sugar. I needed this much milk to counteract the horrid coffee taste, but i just assumed thats what coffee tasted like!!
> 
> When i found independants that really cared about the coffee i found i could take two shots in a 12oz latte with ease, and eventually dropped off the sugar. Now i make 9oz latte's at home and enjoy a 6oz flat white on the way to work.
> 
> What its worth saying though, is that when at home, i always taste my shots before adding milk. As a control mechanism, so i now how acidic/bitter etc i'm getting my shots. Covering it in milk and then tasting wont help, as milk hides many many sins. Get into the habit of at least taking a tiny sip of your shot before you add milk. let it linger in the mouth and give you an idea of its taste profile.
> 
> Good example, my first shot this morning was overly bitter, i might not have noticed had I just added the milk. But i took it away, loosened up the grind a little, dosed up the shot and pulled again. Then the acidity came through, shot tasted strong but nice. It was time to add milk!
> 
> You'll get there in the end.


This is great advise...of which i will follow...you are spot on, i never taste the shot, just wack in the milk, very good advise.

I suppose its all about having the time, rushing of out to work in the morning, one never really has the time to slow things down, which is why i guess i have neglected the method/process to making it right, suppose you cannot rush perfection









Regarding Hasbeans, just found that some of the beans had little flavour at the time, not much roast if that makes sense (please excuse my lack of terminology)

where as the coffebeanshop beans just seemed to work better especially for a novice like me, but surely it really shouldn't be to difficult to get your coffee tasting something like, providing there has been care taken from the roasters side??


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## anygreg

garydyke1 said:


> Do you mean quality or an approach to roast profiles?
> 
> Has Bean has NEVER been poor quality to my knowledg....though maybe not to everyones tastes from a roast-profile POV.


Wouldn't say quality (and didnt







) but consistency with the roast profile i guess...ie it didnt seem to deliver in terms of strength, flavour??

i did have this with one batch of tiger stripes from coffebeanshop, but found another batch to deliver more flavour??


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## anygreg

shrink said:


> I would agree with the above... perhaps try blends like:
> 
> extract - original
> 
> allpress - redchurch
> 
> .


Just ordered them both! thanks


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## RisingPower

anygreg said:


> This is great advise...of which i will follow...you are spot on, i never taste the shot, just wack in the milk, very good advise.
> 
> I suppose its all about having the time, rushing of out to work in the morning, one never really has the time to slow things down, which is why i guess i have neglected the method/process to making it right, suppose you cannot rush perfection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding Hasbeans, just found that some of the beans had little flavour at the time, not much roast if that makes sense (please excuse my lack of terminology)
> 
> where as the coffebeanshop beans just seemed to work better especially for a novice like me, but surely it really shouldn't be to difficult to get your coffee tasting something like, providing there has been care taken from the roasters side??


I'm not entirely sure what flavour has to do with beans being roasted more necessarily?


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## seeq

anygreg said:


> surely it really shouldn't be to difficult to get your coffee tasting something like, providing there has been care taken from the roasters side??


Much much harder than you think. Bitterness or sourness can be to do with temperature, grind, tamp, distribution, dosage, time, bean freshness, bean roast, bean location, cleanliness, water, air pressure, humidity........ There are many other factors, but that should give you an idea of why its so tough to get the perfect shot.

I love Blake from hasbean in milk drinks, but being a light roast it's so easy to get wrong, when it's right, it's amazing. Hasbean are fantastic beans, but they are hard to get right.

I'd suggest something like formula 6 from James gourmet to start with.


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## anygreg

seeq said:


> Much much harder than you think. Bitterness or sourness can be to do with temperature, grind, tamp, distribution, dosage, time, bean freshness, bean roast, bean location, cleanliness, water, air pressure, humidity........ There are many other factors, but that should give you an idea of why its so tough to get the perfect shot.
> 
> I love Blake from hasbean in milk drinks, but being a light roast it's so easy to get wrong, when it's right, it's amazing. Hasbean are fantastic beans, but they are hard to get right.
> 
> I'd suggest something like formula 6 from James gourmet to start with.


Thanks for the informative reply, that's a great help. I am far from claiming to be an expert, which I'm sure shows from my questions. But am willing to learn the dark arts of the perfect shot









In answer to a few of the questions, I use freshly poured water which is filtered to NSF/ANSI 42 & 53, beans are stored at 2 degrees and usually consumed within 1 week ( buy 4 packs at a time, so the last pack would be 3 weeks old if that makes sense) skimmed milk, everything cleaned down, cups warmed etc..

But as I have discovered I still have a long way to go, of which I am looking forward to exploring! S tomorrow morning I will start again with tht ebeans I have already got, and report back.

Really appreciate everyone's responses so far and thanks for your patience.


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