# Questions for a Possible new lever user



## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Hi

I want to take the plunge and upgrade my espresso machine and i am currently considering the Londinium R. I currently am a gaggia classic user and I have been doing alot of reading about various opinions and reviews of machine types available and its the lever option that i am drawn to.

The reason for this post is I don't want to end up with an expensive kitchen ornament but a machine i enjoy using and maintain. I would like, therefore, to clarify a few points so I can hopefully get a bit more understanding about what it is I would be taking on, by going the lever route.

1. Grinder - This is rightly going to be raised regardless of machine choice. I am currently using a super jolly. My intention is to upgrade this eventually. Is this considered an ok pairing with the LR until funds allow an upgrade? If people consider that it would be pointless getting a LR until I upgrade the grinder, then fair comment, i may need to reconsider what i intend, maybe waiting until funding allows for both purchases.

2. Cleaning - As well as the usual day to day cleaning such as portafilter and screen, about twice a year i take out the lever and clean/re-grease the shaft and seals checking if they need replacing. Is there anything else i should be aware of?

3. Maintenance - i should expect to be changing the seals roughly every 2 years, is this more or less correct? I have watched this how to video (





). Initially I was put off slightly as the group head is wrestled with and the new seals attached. After it was completed though and i understood about seal placement face up or down etc, things seemed clearer and didn't seem too daunting, just more physical and I feel happier that it is something i can do. Is there any other routine maintenance I will need to be doing?

4. Are there any problems which may crop up on daily use with this type of machine and how do you fix it? Such as...

* What is sneezing?

* Can the lever get stuck down?

With regards to maintenance/cleaning there is a lot mentioned regarding attaching the 4 screws which hold the group head in place and the damage that can be done as the material is relatively soft if this is incorrectly attached. These screws are the thing which is causing me the greatest concern given the various warnings which have been made about these by videos/people and that I will be removing them roughly twice a year, hopefully for many years to come.

Thanks for reading and any feedback you think appropriate

Dave


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Let me add my thoughts. I owned a Fracino Classic briefly then jumped straight to an L1

From the top then:

I ran the L1 with a 64mm Santos and it does OK so not pointless just "could do better" and you will taste the difference when you do upgrade. Currently use a Mythos 75mm. I will in the future get an even bigger burr grinder.

2 Regular cleaning of the water tank is good

3 Dropping the valve/steam arm seals and greasing Maybe

4 Mine has been a model of reliability and consistency except the stat stuck briefly once after we first used it after the holiday. Just turned off and heat cycled the machine and have not had a recurrence. Once you have felt the pressure of the spring on the lever assy. you will realise that is a no. sneezing ??

The key with those screws is that they do not need to be more than finger tight. A good tool to use is a 1/4" drive socket key. Big enough to grip with your fingers or at most with a driver handle. I once asked Riess about a torque setting and still got the answer "little more than finger tight" The good engineering principle of engaging all 4 screws before tightening in the order 1,3,4,2 applies, especially with softer metals such as brass but in reality brass is not that soft so care is all you need.


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Cheers for the information i very much appreciate it. I Forgot the tank. I do that currently so yes must continue.

With regards to the valve and steam arms seals, i remember reading about that when i was looking at e61's but slipped my mind while concentrating on the group head maintenance for levers so thanks again. I guess the maintenance for these are similar whatever the machine type.

Your comments regarding the screws are the most reassuring. I have a tendency to blow things out of proportion. When actually its not that difficult to do as long as I take it slow and carefully lining everything up. Little more than figure tight is good news.

Thank you


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Dave, here is my two pence worth on the lure of Londinium.

If you fancy a lever machine and have the budget to upgrade directly from Classic to LR then do it.

Ok, you will miss out on the, otherwise likely, experience of owning a premium e61 hx or double boiler machine but you will also dodge the financial losses associated with a multi-stage upgrade path.

Whilst the SJ isn't necessarily the best grinder you might pair with an LR, it's far from the worst and I would suggest you get the machine in the bag and upgrade the grinder when you can.

I don't get my LR for a few days but based on my L1 ownership experience I find it hard to imagine that you will be in any way disappointed. There is a certain 'je ne sais quoi' about the Londinium. It looks elegant, it's quiet and easy to use, easy to maintain* and makes great coffee. And you get to pull that lever!

*I reckon my L1 routine, including weighing output and having the inevitable overrun of coffee is no more messy than on my old e61s.

Do ensure that you use sufficiently soft water, bottled or otherwise, to eliminate any likelihood of scaling.

Group and screen are so easily kept clean with a quick brush and flush. Unlike e61, no need for backflushing.

Piston seal lubrication and replacement. Be mindful of the points made by Patrick in his instructional video but do not be fearful of the procedure as it is quite straightforward. Four screws to be undone and then nipped up when finished. Just ensure that nothing is ever forced. You will find additional info and videos available if you visit the Londinium website.

Hope that helps.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

My first L1 was paired with a Mignon! With decent shot prep the machine will get the best out of any grinder but I would not hold off buying the machine for the sake of upgrading the grinder. A sneeze occurs when there is still pressure in the pf, or in other words it is still dribbling. When it stops, it is safe. That said, with practice you can slowly loosen the pf and as soon as you hear a small release of pressure tighten it and repeat. All machines need a little maintenance but since there are few parts to a lever machine maintenance tends to be less.

The best combo I ever had was an L1 with a K10 conical. The coffee was amazing but the retention truly awful, which is the main reason flats are more popular than conicals these days for the home user


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ahhh the eureka mignon - the Volkswagen Golf of grinders


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Thanks snakehips. I Will be using Waitrose essential when I can otherwise Ashbeck.

I realise that it is a massive jump from the classic and, therefore, one of the underlying reason for this thread is to assure myself that its right for me. Very briefly, I dismissed the L1 originally due to cost, even though when I did research it was the one I wanted. A couple of months ago I

upgraded the classic and bought a Mechanika. It leaked (it wasnt damaged in delivery but assembled incorrectly) and had a really annoying whiney pump sound, guessing it was a rogue as they have a very good rep but nevertheless was sent back. Put me off ecm slightly (irrational maybe). So back to the drawing board,

except, as I have now already paid out £1500 which is sitting on the credit card, the jump to my preferred machine now seems a lot less (there may be some logic to that statement somewhere...







) hence me now considering the LR. The fact that if I hadn't faffed around I would have bought an L1 at around £2000 instead of £2300 for an LR has not passed me by... I am not one for frequently upgrading and selling on stuff, so what I choose I want for a long time.


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

@dfk41 thanks for the post and especially the explanation of the sneeze. Nothing to be concerned about really.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Not sure if you have ever had hands on with an Londinium but maybe consider one of the following before you commit.

@foundrycoffeeroasters.com supply Londinium machines. Contact Lee and if you can get to Sheffield you can have a play on one.

Alternatively, @coffeechap is talking of organising another lever day at Rave in Cirencester (??) which may provide you with a hands on opportunity.


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Thanks probably a sensible thing to do.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Within one week of purchase all those questions will seem irrelevant as you get into the swing of it. It may seem a totally different beast but it soon becomes 2nd nature and really simple to maintain. If you can plumb in, all the better and definitely one to look at.


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Thanks probably a sensible thing to do.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'd try before you buy if you can . A new machine ( lever or not ) will not be a magic bullet for amazing coffee, and the Londiniums are alot of cash to spend without using one or appreciating one in the flesh. There is a joy to ownership of these high end machines ( like LM too ) that doesn't equate to in the cup value and that isn't to be underestimated. Ultimately it will only be as good as the person using it , the coffee you use and the grinder you pair with it . It will not on it's own start making espresso that you can drink by the bucket.

I have seen some expensive equipment come and go quickly after purchase the last six months as people chase the best cup they can , or dream of what machines can do .

There are lot go Lever users on here , all will tell you it's the best thing ever ( i used to tell people that too







) in the end only you can decide if this or something else will suit your needs more, as people rarely will tell you there is something better than what they own .

Go and try one , you may fall in love with it, you may not ...


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Tapatalk!!!! Didn't mean to resend last message. Thanks @forzajuve


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

If you want t have a look at one then you are welcome to come up and have a play, not too far from you as just north of swindon


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## Lefteye (Dec 30, 2014)

This post basically is my journey. I have avoided buying another machine. This thread is great for me. Keep adding info so I don't make many mistakes!!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

there are now cafelat lever group gaskets available..nice


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## Spud36 (May 22, 2015)

Hi

Thanks for all the advice and generous offers. I'm originally from the north of England so still have friends and relatives up there. I think I need to arrange a visit to them and contact foundry coffee at the same time.

Many Thanks again


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> Ahhh the eureka mignon - the Volkswagen Golf of grinders


Haha, as my other hobby is photography, I have a bit different associations with grinders..like, the Sette reminds me of a Nikkor 18-300, good for everything but not excellent, plastic but sturdy construction, kind of all-rounder. Then let's say the Mignon reminds me of a "nifty-fifty", a 50/1,4 lens, relatively cheap but able to produce very good results within its limited focal range. The Kinu M68 would be something like the medium format Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 50/2,8, heavy and requires manual effort but with excellent results, and the Monoliths remind me of Canon 17/4 TSe, a specialist lens with premium price and fault-less professional results


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Mmmm I have an 85mm EF 1.8

(Mythos) or maybe it is just an SJ and the 1.2L is the mythos


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Stanic said:


> Haha, as my other hobby is photography, I have a bit different associations with grinders..like, the Sette reminds me of a Nikkor 18-300, good for everything but not excellent, plastic but sturdy construction, kind of all-rounder. Then let's say the Mignon reminds me of a "nifty-fifty", a 50/1,4 lens, relatively cheap but able to produce very good results within its limited focal range. The Kinu M68 would be something like the medium format Carl Zeiss Jena Flektogon 50/2,8, heavy and requires manual effort but with excellent results, and the Monoliths remind me of Canon 17/4 TSe, a specialist lens with premium price and fault-less professional results


Yeah I sort of mean the same thing - I'd go further and say the mignon is pound for pound the best grinder there is! A faithful, versatile friend - just like the golf


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