# Next step up from Gaggia Classic



## egon (Mar 20, 2017)

I'm having a few problems with my Gaggia, so I'm using it as an excuse to convince myself I need an upgrade.







Would the Rancilio Silva be the next natural progression, or should I be looking elsewhere?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

egon said:


> I'm having a few problems with my Gaggia, so I'm using it as an excuse to convince myself I need an upgrade.  Would the Rancilio Silva be the next natural progression, or should I be looking elsewhere?


If it were me I'd be looking elsewhere. I always understood the silvia to be a better machine but not enough of an upgrade to be a financially viable option.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Only if you buy one second hand 200GBP max.

BR


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## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

what problems are you having? We all like to think "I'd be brilliant at this if only I had a better.........car/camera/coffee machine (insert any hobby)"

and then we buy a new car/camera/coffee machine , and discover we are the problem, not the equipment.

The classic has limitations, especially for steamed drinks, but no real 'problems'


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

egon said:


> I'm having a few problems with my Gaggia, so I'm using it as an excuse to convince myself I need an upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Silvia - no - no -no


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

L&R said:


> Only if you buy one second hand 200GBP max.
> 
> BR


What would a silvia do that will help making espresso any simpler or easier ? It suffer from the same temp dead-end issues that a classic does.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Nothing, but RS has some better components inside .

I have both Classic and Silvia and they produce same quality espresso, but Rancilio has a better steam valve and a brass boiler.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

OH No that is a downgrade, ha have a look around for a second hand DB in around the for sale area, cough cough!!


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

Go for an e61 db or hx. It will make a lot of difference.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

egon said:


> I'm having a few problems with my Gaggia, so I'm using it as an excuse to convince myself I need an upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What's you budget? What about the grinder?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What's you budget? What about the grinder?


Good question. I kept the Classic and went Mazzer Mini-SJ-Major. I spend a lot of time speculating about E61m machines, looking up specs and so on. But the footprint of a typical E61 machine is around twice as big as a Classic. That puts me off. With grinders, the footprint of a Major isn't that different - it's just taller. In my smaller kitchen space matters, so footprint matters. Larger kitchens probably don't have such an issue.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

les24preludes said:


> Good question. I kept the Classic and went Mazzer Mini-SJ-Major. I spend a lot of time speculating about E61m machines, looking up specs and so on. But the footprint of a typical E61 machine is around twice as big as a Classic. That puts me off. With grinders, the footprint of a Major isn't that different - it's just taller. In my smaller kitchen space matters, so footprint matters. Larger kitchens probably don't have such an issue.


And budget? I think you could gather by the previous post that the Silvia isn't really an upgrade to the Classic, you'll be just making a step sideways really.

I was in the same boat a few years ago: width of the machine and grinder was very important, and ended up with a Rocket Cellini (HX) and then a Profitec Pro-700. They are big, and I have to say the wife wasn't very happy as she doesn't even drink coffee anymore.

If you want to upgrade, think about HX or DB Machines. Check what suits budget wise and size wise. Maybe a Sage Dual boiler is what you are after? Or a Lelit?

If you could give us an idea of budget then it would be easier to make suggestions. If you are prepared to wait and go second hand, you might even be able to get something on here.


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## spoxehub (Oct 24, 2014)

I've said this time and time again, but no one ever listens. The logical step up from a Classic is a couple of multi group machines and dedicated grinders inside your own cafe.

Buy cheap, buy twice I always say.


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

With risk of repeating what almost everyone has vouched for I would say: DB or HX.

Anything else is not a real upgrade. And as quite a few people have mentioned, the grinder needs to match whatever machine you go for.

Everything boils down to money, in this particular case worktop space in the kitchen adds to it too.

I have always been dreaming for a nice size utility where I could build my corner but no luck so far.

Good luck to you!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

There are compact options such as Lelit or rocket appartamento (might be too expensive but is small compared to a full size like R58 or Giotto, and will be an upgrade rather than a sideways move like a Silvia)

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## egon (Mar 20, 2017)

Grinder is an MC2.

The issues I thought were technical. Often the start of a shot would be fine, but then there is a hiss a release of pressure and steam and the coffee starts flowing too fast. I'm getting shots in 10 seconds now.

But then last night I pulled a perfect one...


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

egon said:


> Grinder is an MC2.
> 
> The issues I thought were technical. Often the start of a shot would be fine, but then there is a hiss a release of pressure and steam and the coffee starts flowing too fast. I'm getting shots in 10 seconds now.
> 
> But then last night I pulled a perfect one...


Before starting to have technical issues did you enjoy your coffee? If so why don't you repair your classic and you're set. I'm sure you'll find a lot of help from forum members on how to do this.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

One of the LeLit models is an E61 and either hx or db ( I can't remember which ) and is tiny. If space is really at a premium that's what I'd be looking at. When I was looking for a new machine a couple of years ago, caterkwik was selling them for about £700, but most makes have gone up by A LOT since then. At least a couple of hundred quid in some cases.


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

yeh the Lelit Mara PL62 is an hx and extremely compact. Im certainly eyeing that or the apartamento as an upgrade from the classic.



cold war kid said:


> One of the LeLit models is an E61 and either hx or db ( I can't remember which ) and is tiny. If space is really at a premium that's what I'd be looking at. When I was looking for a new machine a couple of years ago, caterkwik was selling them for about £700, but most makes have gone up by A LOT since then. At least a couple of hundred quid in some cases.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

iulianato said:


> Before starting to have technical issues did you enjoy your coffee? If so why don't you repair your classic and you're set. I'm sure you'll find a lot of help from forum members on how to do this.


Makes a lot of sense. With a working Classic you'd no doubt get better coffee with a much better grinder. Mazzer Super Jollies are everywhere for around £150, and a Major for not much over £200. Can't get much better than that.


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## egon (Mar 20, 2017)

Yes, I enjoyed the coffees. Since taking the grouphead apart things seem to have improved, I thought it might have been the gasket but that seems ok. The shower screen was in desperate need of a clean.

If I can pick up grinders that cheap, then that's what might do.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

egon said:


> The shower screen was in desperate need of a clean.


Shower screens are always in desperate need of a clean. Don't know any alternative to regular cleaning except not over-filling the basket.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Even not over filling the basket makes no difference. The shower screen is obviously right in the middle of the brewing area and fines will pass through the holes and settle on the other side. Even a backflush only helps a bit. It's a shame it's so much faff to get the screen out on a Classic. At least on E61 machines you can just pop it out with the handle of a group brush. They really need a clean once a week in domestic use (cafes probably do it every few hours according to one barista I spoke to)

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

hotmetal said:


> Even not over filling the basket makes no difference. The shower screen is obviously right in the middle of the brewing area and fines will pass through the holes and settle on the other side. Even a backflush only helps a bit. It's a shame it's so much faff to get the screen out on a Classic. At least on E61 machines you can just pop it out with the handle of a group brush. They really need a clean once a week in domestic use (cafes probably do it every few hours according to one barista I spoke to)


Good post - yes, it's such a faff removing, cleaning and replacing the screen on a Classic. I just cleaned mine and was horrified at the buildup - solid brown on the reverse side. Salutary reminder to backlash more often. I'm thinking of having 2 screens in operation. Take one out and put the clean one in, which gives time to soak the dirty one. Whatever the solution, something needs to be done. This needs attention. A perfectly clean screen gives you a perceptibly better taste in the cup. Going back to the start of this thread, a Classic is a good machine on condition it's descaled and perfectly clean and things like the thermostats work at exactly the right temperature, which isn't always the case on these old machines...


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

les24preludes said:


> Shower screens are always in desperate need of a clean.


The IMS shower screen helps a lot in this regard.


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## cloughy (Apr 11, 2018)

L&R said:


> The IMS shower screen helps a lot in this regard.


Must do as I've just taken the plate and IMS screen off for a group head clean and the screen is hardly brown at all. I've been backflushing after each shot so that could be helping too


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I went through a number of grinder upgrades before moving of from my Classic. The grinders made a huge difference to the coffee - both making "good" shots more repeatable and making the flavours more interesting - rather than just a generic "coffee" flavour that I was getting with the classic and an entry level grinder.

Classic and something like a major or e37s makes exceedingly good coffee.

Presuming you have a PID? If not, I think most people would recommend you spend £90 on a PID and £200-£250 on a major and you will be shocked with the improvement.


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

Good thread


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

Trying to make a decision


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

Between the gaggia and rancilio


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

This thread was helpful. It sounds like it's a better bet buying a new gaggia for the price of a second hand rancillo no?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

You have done 3 post when only one needed, you are just spamming now for post count!


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

Well a bit. But I'd also appreciate some advice.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well ask away then. And update your location as well. Would help us to give you information in your area.


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

Thanks. That was my question. New gaggia classic or second hand rancilio. I don't want to spend the money on the rancilio only to discover parts need replacing etc. So would prefer the peace of mind of a new machine. But is the quality of the rancilio worth that risk?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

A pre-owned classic from the for sale area, think there are a few hanging around, and what about your grinder


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

May not catch them now as spending time looking through the Sales thread...









John

p.s. to OP, an @MrShades PID plus cleaning regime on your classic may make making consistent shots easier and may not stretch your budget too far. However, if money to burn, grinder will give you much better improvement long term than machine, adjust budget more to grinder than machine e.g. replace MC2 with jolly or better for much bigger improvement in cup, post PID, than shiny new machine and MC2 (sounds counter intuitive, definitely isn't)


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## Owenc9 (Jun 17, 2018)

Jony said:


> A pre-owned classic from the for sale area, think there are a few hanging around, and what about your grinder


Was thinking a porlex, only have a blade grinder at the moment.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Owenc9 said:


> Was thinking a porlex, only have a blade grinder at the moment.


You won't be able to use a blade grinder for making half-decent coffee, period. A porlex will be a bare minimum - but when grinding for espresso you'll get fed up quite quickly and be wishing for something electric.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a new Classic - I'd buy an older (pre 2015) model - with the 'classic' internals... rather than the new version (admitedly with a better boiler, but everything else is worse!).

Scan the For Sale section, get a good used Classic on here - and put whatever you can pull together towards a grinder, like a Super Jolly. MUCH better use of your money than a Silvia and a rubbish grinder / Porlex.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Owenc9 said:


> Thanks. That was my question. New gaggia classic or second hand rancilio. I don't want to spend the money on the rancilio only to discover parts need replacing etc. So would prefer the peace of mind of a new machine. But is the quality of the rancilio worth that risk?


Depending on your location this setup would work well. There's also this setup if you need it posted (am assuming you're UK based) but it doesn't have a PID & the grinder while functional (I started with an MDF myself) would want upgrading at some point.


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