# Add minerals to bottled water used for brews?



## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

At work on an offshore rig I got two water options. From tap, which is produced on the rig, and bottled water. The tap water is no good, so I'm using bottled water. I'm not too happy with the water quality though. Brews made with the same beans I use at home tends to be more acidic and overall less great. I brew V60.

Is it possible to add something to the bottled water to potentially improve the quality of my brews? I know some people make their own brew water with distilled water and some minerals. If the bottled water is low in minerals or the balance is off somehow, would it be possible to add some minerals to it?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

There is a Third Wave Water mix available for adding to distilled or RO water which might be an option? Not tried it myself.

Personally, I've never had success adding minerals to water. Why not try taking a water like Deeside and another with a bit of bicarbonate in it (Chase Spring, Nestle etc..) and mix a bit in if the brew is too acidic with 100% Deeside?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

The biggest problem is that I don't got access to anything out here. I'm at work 14 days each shift.

I'd need to take 5-7 liters with me every time I fly out with helicopter. This would of course be the case if I wanted to bring distilled water too. The advantage with using the bottled water is I got as much as I want out here, available all the time. Which is why my first idea was to see if I could somehow improve it. That is by far the easiest option, and cheapest.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Ok. Misunderstood. Thought you were taking bottled water with you. What is the bottled water supplied then?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

It's one produced in Norway. We do have good tap water here, so I should think the water quality is good.

http://www.tkv.no/products-of-telemark



> Telemark natural mineral water is taken out only 570 m from the factory. From the natural spring, this pure, crystal-clear, low-on-salt mineral water is bottled at our plant in Fyresdal, Telemark. The mineral water holds a constant temperature of 8ºC all year round. Weather the outside temperature is plus 30ºC in summer or minus 30ºC in winter.
> 
> *Water - the natures own drink*
> 
> ...


Maybe brews with this water would taste better with slightly different brew technique or grind. I've experienced before that brews taste different with the same beans and grind and technique, but one day using tap water in Oslo and one day using tap water at a place 300 km away. Are there any go-to methods for adjusting depending on the water, or won't it make anything better if the brew is already dialed in with a different water?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> . Are there any go-to methods for adjusting depending on the water, or won't it make anything better if the brew is already dialed in with a different water?


Water changes the taste of the coffee, but has very little impact on measurable extraction for manual brews. So it's not really a case of dialling in for the water, more of a roaster's area.

But it might be worth trying some long steep immersions (large/insulated French press) at lower brew ratios (55-60g/L)?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Water changes the taste of the coffee, but has very little impact on measurable extraction for manual brews. So it's not really a case of dialling in for the water, more of a roaster's area.
> 
> But it might be worth trying some long steep immersions (large/insulated French press) at lower brew ratios (55-60g/L)?


What would a long steep do? And by long, you mean 3,5,8 minutes?

I got an Aeropress and could try to wrap some insulation around it.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Well, I wasn't thinking Aeropress, but as you mention it, try 55g/L 12-14g dose, around fine drip/coarse espresso (25-30% passing through Kruve 400). Dump boiling water straight in, plunger in to stop drips. Move to another cup as you'll have a few drips in the first that will be stone cold when we're done. Leave it for twenty minutes, remove plunger let it start to drain, then press slowly & stop as you see the bed appear.

Really I was thinking a large &/or insulated French press & 50min+ steep. Extraction won't be any higher, but some of the undissolved solids might help tone down the brightness of the coffee, might round it out a bit? Aeropress will let some silt through too.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Do you know the mineral content and/or TDS of the water?


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Well, I wasn't thinking Aeropress, but as you mention it, try 55g/L 12-14g dose, around fine drip/coarse espresso (25-30% passing through Kruve 400). Dump boiling water straight in, plunger in to stop drips. Move to another cup as you'll have a few drips in the first that will be stone cold when we're done. Leave it for twenty minutes, remove plunger let it start to drain, then press slowly & stop as you see the bed appear.
> 
> Really I was thinking a large &/or insulated French press & 50min+ steep. Extraction won't be any higher, but some of the undissolved solids might help tone down the brightness of the coffee, might round it out a bit? Aeropress will let some silt through too.


I thought my suggestion of 8 minutes was long! Are there french presses with that much insulation? I'm thinking you might need a thermos of some sort to keep the heat for that long.

Wouldn't be much heat left in that AP brew I guess. Another problem is the time it takes. I usually got 30 minutes to brew and consume the brew before I have to get back to work.



the_partisan said:


> Do you know the mineral content and/or TDS of the water?


Not more than what I quoted earlier: "The unique combination of minerals gives a soft, gentle water with an exceptional low level of total dissolved solids (TDS) of apex 13".

0,0003g salt is all I can tell from the bottle.

Maybe I should choose beans with less acidity in the first place.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> I thought my suggestion of 8 minutes was long! Are there french presses with that much insulation? I'm thinking you might need a thermos of some sort to keep the heat for that long.
> 
> Wouldn't be much heat left in that AP brew I guess. Another problem is the time it takes. I usually got 30 minutes to brew and consume the brew before I have to get back to work.


In a single wall, glass French press, 300g of coffee slurry takes 20min to drop to 70c, I don't drink coffee until it is well under 60c. At 15min in an Aeropress, it's still to hot for me. A large 900g French press brew is still too hot to drink at 50min. The reason I thought an insulated press might be an option is the coffee will stay hot for 2hours, you could make it at shift start, drink it in your break.

Do you have the breakdown of the Telemark water components? You could take a few bottles of some very hard water, to mix with it?

If the acidity is that challenging, are you sure you don't have some room to move to grind finer/extract more?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

If it's really TDS 13, that's quite similar to the RO water I can get.

You can try following the recipes on https://baristahustle.com/blogs/barista-hustle/advanced-water-recipes

You can also try TWW, which I'm using , but I'm not 100% happy with it at the moment, as it has no buffer and sometimes the coffee can be very acidic as a result, esp if you slightly underextract..


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

MWJB said:


> In a single wall, glass French press, 300g of coffee slurry takes 20min to drop to 70c, I don't drink coffee until it is well under 60c. At 15min in an Aeropress, it's still to hot for me. A large 900g French press brew is still too hot to drink at 50min. The reason I thought an insulated press might be an option is the coffee will stay hot for 2hours, you could make it at shift start, drink it in your break.
> 
> Do you have the breakdown of the Telemark water components? You could take a few bottles of some very hard water, to mix with it?
> 
> If the acidity is that challenging, are you sure you don't have some room to move to grind finer/extract more?


I didn't think it would only drop to 70C in that time, but that makes it a bit easier.

I can't find any info on the brand I got here, but I found some data on Coca-Cola Bonaqua Natural without gas, which might be drawn from the same source. Their website says it's from the same area. I don't know if you could get different water from different parts of the same area or if these values are current, but it's something.









I sent an email to the producer to see if they want to disclose the information.

I probably got some room. I did some testing last time at work where I went from 3 to 10 on the Lido 3. So far this time I've only tried the Comandante MK3, using the 13% at 400mu setting I used at home. I'll try a brew with the setting I ended up using on the Lido and sift it to see where it's at. Tasting it now, it's maybe not that it's too acidic, but more a lack of other stuff. It tastes a bit bland, boring, muted, short, quick finish. There are some good tastes in there, but it tastes a bit dull. The beans are Kenyan, Karogoto, with tasting notes: "Intense, floral and black currants."



the_partisan said:


> If it's really TDS 13, that's quite similar to the RO water I can get.
> 
> You can try following the recipes on https://baristahustle.com/blogs/barista-hustle/advanced-water-recipes
> 
> You can also try TWW, which I'm using , but I'm not 100% happy with it at the moment, as it has no buffer and sometimes the coffee can be very acidic as a result, esp if you slightly underextract..


I have considered those recipes, but that would require me to bring distilled water. I could've brought any kind of water then, maybe even from tap.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> I didn't think it would only drop to 70C in that time, but that makes it a bit easier.
> 
> I can't find any info on the brand I got here, but I found some data on Coca-Cola Bonaqua Natural without gas, which might be drawn from the same source. Their website says it's from the same area. I don't know if you could get different water from different parts of the same area or if these values are current, but it's something.
> 
> ...


For the spec above you could try mixing 6-10 parts of that to 1 part Farris.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I'll give that a try when I can, thank you. With 1 part Farris to 6-10 parts the water I got, it's more feasible to bring a few bottles of Farris.

Here's the data for Farris from their website. I assume that's the content you had in mind.

FARRIS NATURELL INNEHOLDER FØLGENDE (MG/L):

Natrium 455

Magnesium 31

Kalsium 28

Kalium 16

Klorid 667

Hydrogenkarbonat 300

Sulfat 11

Silisium 13

What are the recommended values of these minerals when brewing coffee?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

You could just prepare the concentrates (2L) when you're on land and then add them to the bottled water when you're brewing?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> What are the recommended values of these minerals when brewing coffee?


For manual brewing, with a kettle (rather than a boiler) the world is your oyster, but maybe keep alkalinity (KH, related to bicarbonate) below 60mg/L as CaCO3.

6:1 Telemark to Farris should give about 40mg/L alkalinity, 10:1 more like 30mg/L alkalinity.

There may be another hard water option for you (there's a lot of chloride & sodium in the Farris, I don't know what effect these will have), it's just the only Norwegian (so should be available to you) hard water I know of. Evian could work too as an option.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

One alternative is to mix a concentrate of my own water at home and take out, as an alternative to Farris or something else. Or, take out the minerals needed and mix directly with the water I got.

Here are the data I found on the tap water in Oslo.

Normal drift Oset vannbehandlingsanlegg (Maridalsvannet) Skullerud vannbehandlingsanlegg (Elvåga)

pH-verdi 7,35-7,60 7,45-8,00

Konduktivitet 8,9-10,6 mS/m 10,3-12,0 mS/m

Alkalitet 0,51-0,68 mmol/l 0,60-0,77 mmol/l

Fargetall 4-6 mg Pt/l-skala 5-7 mg Pt/l-skala

Turbiditet 0,05-0,10 FTU 0,04-0,10 FTU

Kalk 14,7- 17,5 mg Ca/l 16,0-20,5 mg Ca/l

Hardhet 2,1 - 2,5 ºdH 2,2-2,9 ºdH

There are probably lots of options available on bottled water. There a lot of stores importing water from here and there. It could actually be useful if I found the same water as I got out here at home. It's easier and faster to experiment at home. The exact bottle we got here I think is mostly made for companies. Haven't seen it in stores. I could of course try bottles that might come from the same source, like BonAqua.

Of course, I don't know for certain that the table I found is what the bottled water actually contains. I hope the producer is willing to answer.

How do you find alkalinity based on the numbers I provided?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Zephyp said:


> How do you find alkalinity based on the numbers I provided?


Bicarbonate (HCO3) multiplied by 0.82


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

We got a bunch of 20L cans of deionized water out here that doesn't get much use. They're meant for refilling lead batteries. Is deionized water usable for coffee if you add minerals? They might have been sitting there unopened for a few years, maybe that's unfortunate.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Zephyp said:


> We got a bunch of 20L cans of deionized water out here that doesn't get much use. They're meant for refilling lead batteries. Is deionized water usable for coffee if you add minerals? They might have been sitting there unopened for a few years, maybe that's unfortunate.


Personally I wouldn't drink it. It is apparently corrosive and acidic on exposure to air but it doesn't carry any health warnings on the bottle. Maybe once you add minerals it might be ok.

The bottled water you have detailed is virtually distilled if only 13tds. You could try adding the third wave mix to it and see if you like it. Then you have no water to carry? Might be worth a shot.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Can you bring a few bottles home with you to have a play around on your off days? Might be easier finding a recipe you're happy with when at your leasure.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

Step21 said:


> Personally I wouldn't drink it. It is apparently corrosive and acidic on exposure to air but it doesn't carry any health warnings on the bottle. Maybe once you add minerals it might be ok.
> 
> The bottled water you have detailed is virtually distilled if only 13tds. You could try adding the third wave mix to it and see if you like it. Then you have no water to carry? Might be worth a shot.


Worth a try, yeah. If it works out, I could always try to mix the minerals myself as an alternative to buying TWW. I'll order some packs.



ashcroc said:


> Can you bring a few bottles home with you to have a play around on your off days? Might be easier finding a recipe you're happy with when at your leasure.


Of course! That's a great idea. I can fit some bottles in my bags. I might find something somewhat similar, but taking bottles home guarantees it's the same.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I got an answer from the manufacturer.

They said it's not natural water, so I'm guessing it's prepared water and treated somehow.

Sulfate: 3 mg/L

Calcium: 15 mg/L

Chloride: 1.5 mg/L

Sodium: 1.5 mg/L

Potassium: 0.4 mg/L

Magnesium: 0.4 mg/L

Fluriode: 0.1 mG/L

Alkalinity: 1 mmol/L

That's a bit higher alkalinity than from the first numbers. The alkalinity is higher than what they say it's in the tap water in Oslo, but of course it's a combination of all the minerals. It will be interesting to take some bottles home and try some side-by-side comparisons.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Well deionized means just that, it means it will not have any ions and should have TDS of 0. I use those to calibrate my refractometer, you can buy it from stores here in 1L bottles. But just because it doesn't have any dissolved solids, doesn't mean it doesn't have any undissolved ones







You can try smelling it and if smell bad, probably avoid it. Otherwise I don't see why it should be harmful.


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

The water wasn't that old after all, a few from 2017. They're apparently using it for something.

I ordered a pack of TWW for experimentation. I've wanted to try it home as well, just to see how it would taste.


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