# Thoughts on tamping



## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Finding that the tamper isn't level with the rim of the basket... Which I recon might be causing it to pour to fast??

Using my gaggia PF with a 21g basket and 21g of coffee in.

What's everyone's thoughts grind more coffee till I achieve the tamper being at this level?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Noooooo no more coffee 21 g is enough

You need to leave some headspace even with a gaggia between coffee and shower screen ..

What tamper are you using and grinder btw


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

What do your pucks look like after you've pulled one of those shots?

If it's all scarred up and the shower screen is caked with grounds then a down-dose or a finer grind would be a good idea,

as Boots suggests its quite often that an inadequate gap between the shower screen and the tamped coffee bed can lead to channelling issues as there won't be a layer of water between them.

Basically without a gap the coffee will directly get blasted when you go to brew and the water will do its thing by exploiting the easiest path of resistance often resulting in an ugly undrinkable extraction.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Too much coffee in there. What makes you think a Classic has a 21 gm basket or is it an aftermarket basket. I different schools of thought on tamping. Nowadays, a lot of people think grind finer and tamp lighter......about the same as grinding slightly coarser then tamping harder. You need to go back to basics for us by noting dry weight then weighing the output of the shot over a given time of say 25 to 30 seconds. By weighing out, I mean put scales under spout, x put cup on and zero, then weigh the output. a rough guide would be plus 60% so a 10 gm weight of ground coffee would extract 16 gems or so


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Op has a triple basket from HD even so , 21 g is the max I'd wanna go with it probably


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Dose down, grind finer. You're almost certainly under extracting with a dose that large, unless it's a dark roast.

JP


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

what tamper do you have? it isn't the stupid plastic one is it?

Tamper doesn't need to be level with the basket, but it does need to be level and consistent. Don't overtamp either, the old 30lB is a load of ****, as long as you give a nice compact to the grinds you are fine.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

21g isn't necessarily a bad dose for a lighter roast, but people I know who pull it off well are doing it on LM Lineas and similar commercial machines.

Might be too much for the classic, maybe try a 18g basket?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

How many drinks are you pouring from the shot, 1 or 2?


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

21g doses with light roast coffees will extract in the low range of acceptable extractions. Where you draw the under extraction line is subjective to some extent, but I prefer extractions of 19 - 23%, which are harder to achieve (and still taste good) with larger doses.

JP


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

21g doses with light roast coffees will extract in the low range of acceptable extractions. Where you draw the under extraction line is subjective to some extent, but I prefer extractions of 19 - 23%, which are harder to achieve (and still taste good) with larger doses.

JP


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

jjprestidge said:


> 21g doses with light roast coffees will extract in the low range of acceptable extractions.


Someone better tell Matt Perger


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

From Matt's own site:

"The first step towards more extraction is making your grinder adjustment finer and using less grams per litre."

I know that he is using large baskets and doses, splitting them and making two espressos for smaller milk based drinks, but that's not quite the same thing.

JP


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Madtwinhead said:


> Finding that the tamper isn't level with the rim of the basket... Which I recon might be causing it to pour to fast??
> 
> Using my gaggia PF with a 21g basket and 21g of coffee in.
> 
> What's everyone's thoughts grind more coffee till I achieve the tamper being at this level?


Get a new basket, those triples from HD are like buckets! Get a VST or IMS double (18g) and start from there. I very rarely got good shots from my HD triple.


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Beanosaurus said:


> What do your pucks look like after you've pulled one of those shots?
> 
> If it's all scarred up and the shower screen is caked with grounds then a down-dose or a finer grind would be a good idea,
> 
> ...


If I pull the PF straight after extraction its a little slushy, but no indents or mess. Cheers


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Too much coffee in there. What makes you think a Classic has a 21 gm basket or is it an aftermarket basket. I different schools of thought on tamping. Nowadays, a lot of people think grind finer and tamp lighter......about the same as grinding slightly coarser then tamping harder. You need to go back to basics for us by noting dry weight then weighing the output of the shot over a given time of say 25 to 30 seconds. By weighing out, I mean put scales under spout, x put cup on and zero, then weigh the output. a rough guide would be plus 60% so a 10 gm weight of ground coffee would extract 16 gems or so


Yeah got a HD triple basket for it... Will have a play


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Slushy sounds to me like you have too little in the basket, as stated use the double and dose a little less, say 18g - 19g, you should see a big difference.


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

aaronb said:


> what tamper do you have? it isn't the stupid plastic one is it?
> 
> Tamper doesn't need to be level with the basket, but it does need to be level and consistent. Don't overtamp either, the old 30lB is a load of ****, as long as you give a nice compact to the grinds you are fine.


Got a HD 58mm convex tamper...

Iv just seen some people explain that the top edge of the tamper needs to be level...but good to know its not necessary


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> How many drinks are you pouring from the shot, 1 or 2?


1


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Xpenno said:


> Get a new basket, those triples from HD are like buckets! Get a VST or IMS double (18g) and start from there. I very rarely got good shots from my HD triple.


Ideal sounds good will definitely look into that.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Madtwinhead said:


> 1


See my last post then, go with the double, triple i would use only when split pouring for two drinks.


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Cheers froggy will order a double up. And say I was splitting to make 2 (if I'm on the mood for sharing lol) how much coffees do you recon in the triple basket


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Time to order a dbl basket then. Is the consensus max 21g when splitting the triple if I ever willing share?? Lol


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Damn phone told me that post didn't make it... now Iv duplicated!! Whoops


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I may have a spare double at home, let me check tonight, if so you can have it.

I would just get used to the double first, then maybe play around with the triple, i dont use mine at all, but then i only pour single drink shots.


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

That would be Rad cheers froggy.

Yeah sod the sharing and using the triple I'm like Gollum/Smeagle when it comes to coffee haha


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

D not forget, triples do not fit all baskets with twin nozzle on, they need naked P/F's,


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'll add my tuppennorth, although it's repetition of the above.

I had a Classic and generally was making doubles just for me.

I was using a VST 18g basket and for a while I had (what I believe to be) an HD 58mm tamper.

1 - I got pretty good results using 18-18.5g in the 18g VST

2 - The top of the straight sides of the tamper base was generally level with the basket lip when I was dosing around 18g

3 - The tamper I had actually measured 57.4 when I got the calipers on it. There was some necessity to do the whole N-S-E-W thing just to get a clean edge seal, which I got bored of pretty rapidly and ordered a bona fide 58.35.


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

Order an 18g VST basket - they're worth the additional money over a standard basket.

JP


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I find a simple consitant tamp and make adjustments on the grinder with the same dose make for an easier life .

chopping and changing all the variables make repeatability rather difficult .


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Ridged or Ridgeless ?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Madtwinhead said:


> Ridged or Ridgeless ?


Ridgeless are easy to remove - great if you change baskets frequently.


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Cool and where can I get one


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## Madtwinhead (Sep 11, 2014)

Hasbean??


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hasbean sell them for definate http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/vst-filter-basket

Also CoffeeHit http://coffeehit.co.uk/brands/vst

Both forum sponsors

Hope of help

John


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Dug a double out last night if you still after one, pm your addy and ill stick it in the post


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

What is the idea of ridged baskets anyhow? I'm sure there must be some benefit but you really have to lever the damn things out. My ridgeless VST is gripped more than adequately by the spring clip in the PF enough to knock out and requires a good pull with the fingers (but no knife or spoon etc) to remove.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Ridged provide a much more secure fitting so less likely to pop out when knocking out the puck.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

And if fitted in a naked majority of time easy to push out from underneath/ secure whilst knocking out. Also the outy ridge serves as a visual as to level tamp, which can be handy for ham fisted bods (me) in avoiding an oblique tamp.

John


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Well I know the ridge is supposed to secure the basket but on the 2 PFs I've had (one naked, one spouted), the ridgeless basket doesn't budge when knocking out but removing the ridged one from the spouty filter is a royal pain. Still I suppose not all baskets and handles fit together as snugly as the ones I've tried.

Good point about the ridge as a level indicator.


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