# Preferred Latte ratio volume aka milk to espresso ratio



## Iwwstriker (Dec 6, 2013)

Hi there all,

Life's been good and I have been wondering what is the best taste of latte and cappuccino in terms of volume ratio. I have seen dozens of illustrations about the approximate ratio. But I have been wondering. How much espresso to an amount of milk do you guys prefer for any drinks at all? Any recommended methods on measuring the volume quickly?

I have just had a cup of latte (double shot 1:1.9 extract ratio) with milk filled to the bottom of the v-tip of a Motta 500ml pitcher. And the result, a total sweetness with a hint of sugar cane and the smell of caramel. I have always had a double shot 1:1.9 extract ratio and just the amount of milk max in a 350ml pitcher. And the taste was nice, but not smooth enough.

What do you guys do for a daily cup of coffee? Do let me know and I shall experiment it with my friends as "laboratory white mice". Muahahahaha....

Cheers,

Ivan =D


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Hi Ivan. I pour a double, 17g in, 25g out, into a 5oz flat white cup, and top with silky steamed milk, no froth as I prefer a nice 5oz flat white


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Depends on the coffee and mood what milk drink i have

16-30g of espresso ( depends if going for double ristretto etc ) into 5-6 .5 milk max though


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## Iwwstriker (Dec 6, 2013)

Hmmm, so the amount of milk that you guys like should be around 5oz for a double shot to make a good taste of latte. Alright, it's so blurry trying to chat using both ml and oz. My goodness. Oh well, guess I'll have to try that out too. Maybe I have extracted the shot a bit too long to obtain a ratio of 1:1.9. But of course, it still goes back to how a person actually wants the strength and taste of his espresso. Am I right? Well, back to square one, =( experimenting....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Do what tastes good, not what we do /////


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

As a rough idea most of the better coffee shops seem to serve a flat white in 5-6.5 oz cup or glass and a Latte in a 7-8oz cup if that helps, usually with a double shot, whichever one you are making. For example I had some friends round earlier they find the taste of a 6 oz flat white not to their palates so I served them 20g into 38g in 8oz cups as Lattes and for me 20g in 38g out in a 5 oz Acme flat white cup.


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## Iwwstriker (Dec 6, 2013)

Charliej said:


> As a rough idea most of the better coffee shops seem to serve a flat white in 5-6.5 oz cup or glass and a Latte in a 7-8oz cup if that helps, usually with a double shot, whichever one you are making. For example I had some friends round earlier they find the taste of a 6 oz flat white not to their palates so I served them 20g into 38g in 8oz cups as Lattes and for me 20g in 38g out in a 5 oz Acme flat white cup.


I have approximately measured out what I actually had just now. I had a 10oz frothed steamed milk with a 18 to 34.2g espresso. The result was very milk and it does bring out the caramel taste in the drink itself. And I have had a go at dark roast beans from Starbucks (because I just wanna try dark roast before committing =P, so no harsh comments). Compared to a medium roast which I usually have, for the same amount of milk of 5 oz in a small 6 oz cup, the drink tastes bitter and not sweetening at all.

I am now just curious about one thing.

Do better coffee shops serve in weight beverage ratio for their shots, or do they go with 1oz or 2 oz volumetrically? Because the first time I spoke to the owners of Wired Cafe & Bar in my local Nottingham city, they do 1oz or 2oz until I suggested trying a weight beverage ratio. The lady owner did take out a scale for measurement and the next time I return to pay a visit, I noticed a slightly lower serving volume in their single shot espresso and double as well. Mmmm, guess I will have to drag my friends to come to my house and become my experimental lab mice to see what most people would like, from a range of "non-coffee drinkers" to "enthusiastic coffee lovers" like ourselves. What a journey to go...


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Iwwstriker said:


> I have approximately measured out what I actually had just now. I had a 10oz frothed steamed milk with a 18 to 34.2g espresso. The result was very milk and it does bring out the caramel taste in the drink itself. And I have had a go at dark roast beans from Starbucks (because I just wanna try dark roast before committing =P, so no harsh comments). Compared to a medium roast which I usually have, for the same amount of milk of 5 oz in a small 6 oz cup, the drink tastes bitter and not sweetening at all.
> 
> I am now just curious about one thing.
> 
> Do better coffee shops serve in weight beverage ratio for their shots, or do they go with 1oz or 2 oz volumetrically? Because the first time I spoke to the owners of Wired Cafe & Bar in my local Nottingham city, they do 1oz or 2oz until I suggested trying a weight beverage ratio. The lady owner did take out a scale for measurement and the next time I return to pay a visit, I noticed a slightly lower serving volume in their single shot espresso and double as well. Mmmm, guess I will have to drag my friends to come to my house and become my experimental lab mice to see what most people would like, from a range of "non-coffee drinkers" to "enthusiastic coffee lovers" like ourselves. What a journey to go...


I know the cafe you're talking about. Their coffee is about the best you can get in Nottingham city centre, but that isn't saying much as it's a bit of a coffee desert here! The owners have admitted to me that many of their customers know more about it than they do. They offer a small and large flat white... which to me shows a lack of understanding of what a flat white is.

I've been in for an espresso on a few occasions and found it a bit hit and miss. Sometimes they do it well, other times not. I had one shot which was definitely on the small side and somewhat sour. So the fact that you saw a smaller measure is probably down to their lack of attention to detail and quality control rather than a deliberate change.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi fluffles , the cafe in question did at one point just have flat white one size on the menu , but decided to change it to offer different sizes as customers were asking for these. Plus nottm in general doesn't have a huge artisan cafe culture to work with .

Guess it's a question of whether they respond to customer demand or try and educate , as a new business they tried to respond to customer demand .

I've talked to the owners and found them pretty knowledgable and they had done a lot of research on equipment and roasters before opening not all the staff will be of a similar level. Same for a lot of cafés .

If the shots you've had are sour then tell them, they won't get better without being told .

I'd love them to succeed as you rightly say there isn't a huge amount of coffee shops in nottm worthy of the name , so anyone prepared to put some money up and get going deserves feedback and support , but not if they are consistently bad ...and don't listen , which is where people lie us come in.

But Before this shop I used to complain no one tried to do decent coffee on decent kit in the city centre.

So if you have the time let them know what you think in a constructive way , don't walk away and post on net that they are mediocre , give them feedback and be part of the reason they succeed ....


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## Iwwstriker (Dec 6, 2013)

Yeah, I agreed with @Mrboots2u. It's more shops opening up to meet customers' demand. I still find it hard to be feasible for a shop to strictly staying in its conventional path of making coffee and not bending its will to what customers are looking for. So sometimes, it's hard to educate people about what real coffee means as everyone has their preferences.

It's like what I get at home when my friends come over, I made coffee for them to their preferences, but to no avail, sometimes when you're being served a free drink, you tend to have more thoughts about it? And when you pay for something, even if it's yucky to drink, they would swallow it down and say that coffee is smooth, not bad at all.

=( no, we must educate people for the sack of coffee... CoFffeee !!!! CCCoofffeeeee !!!! Don't keep the truth from usz!!! ahaha


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

@MrBoots, I'm actually having a very similar situation at the moment. There's someone from Stratford who had a brew in my place when I wasn't here and said it was all great then proceeded to slag us and MY TRAINEE off all over a Stratford forum instead of actually helping the poor guy out by telling him what was wrong.

I mean there is a reason I'm so strict on training but deconstructive criticism does no one any good. Especially when it reflects that badly on me for absolutely no reason.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hi fluffles , the cafe in question did at one point just have flat white one size on the menu , but decided to change it to offer different sizes as customers were asking for these. Plus nottm in general doesn't have a huge artisan cafe culture to work with .
> 
> Guess it's a question of whether they respond to customer demand or try and educate , as a new business they tried to respond to customer demand .
> 
> ...


My apologies, you're absolutely right. Just re-read my post and it did sound a bit more hostile than I intended it. Forgive me, it was early and I was yet to have a coffee









It remains the only place in Nottingham I'm willing to part with cash for a coffee. As for everywhere else, I do a better job at home on my Atomic! (I can hear you all scoffing, but I make a more than decent flat white with it)

Fluffs


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I miss my Atomic. And that is a massive understatement.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Scotford said:


> I miss my Atomic. And that is a massive understatement.


Wonder how many Atomic users we have around here? I notice there is no dedicated board for it, and not even one for Stovetops in general...


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I'm sure there are at least a few. I've got mine in storage these days but she'll see the light of day again eventually


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I tend to use the same volume of espresso and vary the milk accordingly. I go from a Cortado cup, which is basically 1:1, to the same espresso in a 5 ounce cup, I also have 6 ounce and a 7 ounce mug. depends on what experience I am after I guess but it really is a personal thing


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