# How to get the best out of your L1



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Perhaps this is aimed at those who are yet to press the button. When I got my L1 at the start of the year, I had a Mignon for a short period of time. This was my first time with a lever so you can ignore most of what went on! I then very quickly received an HG One which I did not get on with at all. The burrs locked, the static was awful and quite simply, I was not prepared to suffer the routine it wanted me to go through! I sold it and bought another Mignon whilst I decided what next.

I had the chance of a Mythos so bought it and sold the Mignon. The Mythos was amazing but after 6 months and itchy feet, I bit the bullet and swopped the flat burrs for the conical burrs of a K10 Fresh. I can honestly say, that whatever grinder you use with an L1 it will get the best out of it, but, the better the quaity of grinder then the better the end result is going to be.

Reiss is pairing the L1 with the K10 Fresh.........that must tell you something. So, if you are saving up for an L1, or if you already own an L1, do yourself a faovur if funds permit and pair it with the likes of a K10.........and really get the most out of your gear!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

The K10 Fresh costs more than the L1!!!

I'd be interested to taste the difference between that setup and say a Classic/SJ combo.

Are the differences really that different?!?

I totally get that if I had the funds that I would also want the best possible equipment but surely the taste differences can not be so great?


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

It's not just the taste. The L1 really is a thing of beauty.

I agree that it would be really good to do a comparison though, not to prove or disprove anybody else, just to see if my tastebuds can tell a big difference.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

My taste buds are only rivaled by my pathetic ttemps at latter art, and even I cna taste a difference! Earlier in the year, I was left without my L1 for a few weeks, so paired my Mythos up to a Gaggia Classic. The shots I was able to produce were very good......but....that was for a Classic. Far better than any other shots I had had, so the grinder is mega important. When I got the L1 back, it was very noticeable of course, but my whole point, was that your set up should be a grinder and an espresso machine, not just one or the other. They work in tandem.

If anyone is ever in Newcastle they are welcome to come along.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> My taste buds are only rivaled by my pathetic ttemps at latter art, and even I cna taste a difference! Earlier in the year, I was left without my L1 for a few weeks, so paired my Mythos up to a Gaggia Classic. The shots I was able to produce were very good......but....that was for a Classic. Far better than any other shots I had had, so the grinder is mega important. When I got the L1 back, it was very noticeable of course, but my whole point, was that your set up should be a grinder and an espresso machine, not just one or the other. They work in tandem.
> 
> If anyone is ever in Newcastle they are welcome to come along.


Your taste buds are rivalled By your typing skills also...







!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You know, I looked at it and thought one L or two......anyway.........the list lengthens then of things I am crap at........think I will just skulk off to my corner and make a Java Jampit using my L1 and K10.......









Better add inserting smileys to that as well!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> You know, I looked at it and thought one L or two......anyway.........the list lengthens then of things I am crap at........think I will just skulk off to my corner and make a Java Jampit using my L1 and K10.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know I'm just jealous .......


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> .....If anyone is ever in Newcastle they are welcome to come along.


Now that's an offer well worth taking up as I can vouch for. The K10 is the only grinder on the market I'd consider as a replacement for a HG One.



cold war kid said:


> ....it would be really good to do a comparison though, not to prove or disprove anybody else, just to see if my tastebuds can tell a big difference.


The L1 is capable, when properly dialled in with a grinder up to the mark, of getting the very best out of the bean - you can pick out many more aroma and taste profiles. Will be interesting to hear the Lever Legend's take on the Expobar he's got on his bench compared to his LI in this respect.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If you're drinking pure , unadulterated espresso, using the best single-origin microlot coffee, your skills as a barista are at the top of their game & that is your main passion in life , then, yes, i would advocate a high-end grinder paired with a top-end machine. (after all the coffee used and the barista are critical path to great coffee)

If milk is even in the equation as your drink of choice then forget it, its not money well spent, the difference in taste would be barely noticable if at all.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Milanski said:


> I'd be interested to taste the difference between that setup and say a Classic/SJ combo.
> 
> Are the differences really that different?!?
> 
> I totally get that if I had the funds that I would also want the best possible equipment but surely the taste differences can not be so great?


 The differences are substantial, but less so if you drink traditional high-roast Italian coffee and/or put a lot of milk in your coffee. If you drink espresso and use coffee that is fresh and not over-roasted, what comes out of lever machine like the LI be in a different world to what comes out of the Classic. Or maybe I never had enough skill or patience when I had a Classic, because the simple fact is it's much easier to get great shots out of the LI (and much much easier to steam milk successfully).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> If you're drinking pure , unadulterated espresso, using the best single-origin microlot coffee, your skills as a barista are at the top of their game & that is your main passion in life , then, yes, i would advocate a high-end grinder paired with a top-end machine. (after all the coffee used and the barista are critical path to great coffee)
> 
> If milk is even in the equation as your drink of choice then forget it, its not money well spent, the difference in taste would be barely noticable if at all.


Tut Tut Gary, have you no imagination at all? In that case, when the vast majority of drinks served by retail outlets are milk based, why do they bother with all these top end range pieces of kit and not just whack a Fracino in there? I only drink single origin beans. I take milk 80% of the time as I prefer it that way. I do appreciate a good espresso and by good I mean one that suits my taste buds. Sometimes this is just to make sure I am producing an adequate quality espresso of course. So, are you saying if you own a McLaren and do not drive it like a racing car on public roads then you should not have one?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Dont get me wrong , I occasionally like milk drinks but wouldnt find a tangable difference between flatwhites produced using a mythos and a K10 fresh. Certainly the difference in flatwhites from a good and bad barista (or good and bad coffee) would be entirely apparent, regardless of grinder and/or machine.

The best flatwhite I have had this year was produced on a humble Superjolly / Astoria combination at Relish in Wadebridge. The quality of an expert barista and great coffee used trumped all manner of high-end kit at other establishments.

I wouldnt put lemonade into good wine / beer and be expected to appreciate the difference, the same goes for milk in coffee.

- the car analogy is flawed because coffee isnt about using machines as bling trophies, its about trying to make as delicous a drink as you can using a great ingredient


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I love a good debate!

I am an espresso man myself and though I have learned to appreciate milk based drinks, I still think that a bean's greatest moment is in it's espresso form. Obviously I am biased but a good point made that the majority of people prefer their coffee with milk. However, I believe this is down to the crappy establishments that purport to be purveyors of good coffee when in fact they are the McDonald's of coffee. Given their proliferation and the fact that most 'coffee lovers' don't make their coffee in the way we do, most people have never EVER tasted good coffee so they have nothing to compare it to. Because the coffee at these 'fast drink' joints is so bad, they have to dress it up with milk to make it taste better and this is why I think most people prefer it that way. I don't know for sure but from what I've seen I would say that the majority of Italians prefer espresso (even if it is mostly stale!).

However, I digress. I have no doubt that the L1 makes exceptional coffee and I understand that the better the grinder, the better the resultant coffee but the thing I'd like to know is what is the difference or how many more flavour notes can one taste between what I would consider as the minimum best setup (e.g. SJ and Classic) and a creme de la creme set up (arguably an L1 and K10 Fresh)?

dfk41 I'm rarely up your way, but if I ever am, I'm bringing my SJ and Classic and we're having a head to head!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Bring it on! The thing is, if you own an L1 and a K10, then if you want to put milk in you can! If you do not own that combination, then you cannot. Simple really


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

be pleased to let you come to mine and put your classic against my L1, you could then try out your classic with any number of high end grinders as well..


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i fact you can pitch your lovely little combo against the expobar and an hx if you want..


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Where do you live??


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I see a mini documentary coming on...!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Milanski said:


> but the thing I'd like to know is... how many more flavour notes can one taste between what I would consider as the minimum best setup (e.g. SJ and Classic) and a creme de la creme set up (arguably an L1 and K10 Fresh)?


42 xxxxxxxxxxx


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

out to the west


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

rolo where have you been, havent seen your comments for a while???


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

RoloD said:


> 42 xxxxxxxxxxx


Dry as a bone


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> out to the west


Ok, I'm gonna PM you. See if we can't make this happen sometime.

Would be pretty interesting to log the results with a graph showing a price to quality trade off...

I'm by no means an expert in cupping though. Being a lever legend I assume your taste buds are much more developed than mine coffeechap?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Espresso versus espresso - classic versus L1 - k10

milk+espresso versus milk+espresso - classic versus L1 - k10

milk+espresso versus milk+espresso - classic versus L1 - mythos


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i dont see the sj anywhere gary?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

espresso sj classic vs espresso k10 L1 thats all that counts right


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Not really a fair contest


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i didnt think it was a contest, i thought it was about telling the difference between a £700 setup (new) and a £3500 setup


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Yeah, for me it's about the difference and whether the cost justifies the expenditure.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

If there was a way to do tests with same coffee, and different set ups. Ranging from the modest to the downright obscene


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Would be nice if I could finish a post properly too anyway a forum group test is what I meant.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

...in a way the financial margin is slightly wider cos it's possible to get a classic and sj combo for £300 used but you'll be very hard pushed to find the L1 and/or the K10f used, but now I'm just splitting hairs.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

When we have the time I plan to go and darken coffeechap's doorstep with my humble Classic/SJ combo.

We'll use the same beans and just change the equipment for the sake of consistency.

We'll then post the findings.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ok

used L1 £1500 used k10 fresh £1100


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> ok
> 
> used L1 £1500 used k10 fresh £1100


Where on earth do you find " used L1 and k10 fresh " .......


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hmmm someone who decided to upgrade, to erm, yes very unlikely to find such a pairing


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you know where to look, it is amazing what you can find!


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