# What are the key contributing factors in people getting quiet on here?



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Having been a proactive member for quite some time now I notice that there are a core of members who have posted regularly over the past year and some who have drifted into the background and others who have completely disappeared!

So my question is this what makes us stop posting ?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

My twopenneth.

It seems that theres the 'get a gaggia and enjoy your coffee' or 'if youre not using (insert item in vogue) you cant possibly make coffee' replies.

Maybe I'm generalising a little here but it isnt the sole reserve of this forum. On shooting forums, if you dont have the gun that everyone raves about, how can you possibly break clays. On motoring forums (especially vehicle specific forums) if you dont have the favoured model you are satans disciple. Ive recently joined a motoring forum where there isnt the model snobbery that I mentioned and the interaction is much healthier.

There dont seem to be as many posts for assistance in solving a problem. My reasons for not posting so often are as above.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

I dont like the MC2 & Cherub bashing. Also miss Shrinks postings.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

working dog said:


> My twopenneth.
> 
> It seems that theres the 'get a gaggia and enjoy your coffee' or 'if youre not using (insert item in vogue) you cant possibly make coffee' replies.
> 
> ...


Totally agree, and unfortunately I have been guilty of this myself especially with regard to grinders! Funny thing is I still enjoy firing up the pavoni or classic that I have but don't comment on their virtues as often as I should. Interestingly enough Gary posted a really telling paragraph yesterday about the standard of equipment on here and I too am amazed by the amount of really expensive kit people have, we should just remember you don't need expensive kit to make truly wonderful coffee.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

People come and go on forums, Ive noticed people coming to finalise which equipment to get and then you never hear from them again. I miss the Mikehag; Strangebean; Fatboy; PendragonCS, Lookseehear (you prob know what I mean Luke), ExpoBarista etc etc era. Some great banter and good times.

There was a time people were thinking (but probably not openly saying) ''oh God, not another Classic , MC2 query''. Now its ''oh God, not another L1 & Mythos query''


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## Blackstone (Aug 5, 2012)

i was mot active when i first joined, trying to take in all the info and asking lots of questions. i no feel that im at a point where i have enough knowledge for my current setup and not enough for the more advanced discussion.

i still check the forum daily but post infrequently


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

and another thing....

Coffee! The 'Beans' section isnt alive to the extent it should be - with honest reviews, tasting notes, recipe sharing etc. There seems to be 2 or 3 people keeping those threads alive. For christsakes we are on here for the delicious ingredient, we need to focus on it more. Great chefs dont bang on about their stove, or knives...they talk about the seasonal ingredients they can source! Farmers are working harder and harder in growing difficult conditions (leaf rust, climate change, water supply), roasters work their asses off to source and create relationships to obtain special microlots and unique varietials..... A lot of the coffee industry folk dont bother coming onto forums , i can kind of see why.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Now its ''oh God, not another L1 & Mythos query

As an owner of that combo I feel qualified to answer. I am a protagonist as all know, but, sometimes with a reason. I have not been long on this forum. When i first joined, the standard of question was firmly in the Gaggia Classis, MC2 arena. The standard advice given out was always to buy that equipment and when you wanted to upgrade, you went to a Vario or Cherub. After much debate, some good, some bad, that scenario has largely vanished. Of course the Classic is still the best entry level machine, and if you are spending less than £200 on a machine, why would you spend a lot more on a grinder, at that point.

The membership levels seem to have increased dramatically this year, and with that comes a whole new level of experience and questions and machines. Yes, the arguments continue but look at the other things that have happened. The Grind off day, the Forum day, the darker `side of Life, the group buys on Torr and VST. there is a vast wealth of experience still to be had on this forum for the benefit of everyone.

Glenn introduced the newbies section to try and head off the beginners questions and to a degree, that has worked.

People come and people go and that is life. the Forum exists for its members and not the other ay round, so....Viva la Forum!


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

There's a lot of willy waving and people are quick to shoot down others if they disagree. And from a lot of the threads, you're given the impression that if you don't have expensive equipment, you might as well not bother making coffee or coming on the forum.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

In the last year or more knowledge and standards have increased on here, now people's ideas of the best machines to have at home are much better.

Also people's knowledge of coffee has increased I remember wondering what was going on when I first joined







I think the above is great.

The only problem now I feel is if we aren't careful (myself included) we risk alienating those with the entry level machines, which when used well produced exceptional coffee. Perhaps it's partly this alienating that causes some to quiet down, as well as of course the general coming and going.


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## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

Can I add another dimension?

People join because they are unhappy with some aspect of their coffee experience may that be kit, beans their own limitations etc... After a while they've solved all of their problems, they've got the kit that they're happy with and they are just sitting back enjoying the coffee - and not posting here!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I agree with the comments on talking about coffee more. I love reading about the stuff people are trying . Even though being honest I dont always understand alot of the technical aspects of the brewing data that accompany it. Charlie j posted the other day on a rave bean that he had tried. I will buy it based on his post. I dont really care whether he has sampked it on an l1 or a claasic. His enthusiasm and description is what sold me.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Agree with the entry level comments too. There is an enthusiam and joy that newbies including myself get from posting about new coffee s to them and techniques, problems solved etc, that keep places like this alive .


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

MarkyP said:


> Can I add another dimension?
> 
> People join because they are unhappy with some aspect of their coffee experience may that be kit, beans their own limitations etc... After a while they've solved all of their problems, they've got the kit that they're happy with and they are just sitting back enjoying the coffee - and not posting here!


I think this is a major point.

Initially when you are new you have lots to learn and many questions. Once you have the kit and a good understanding it is then time to get on with it as such for some they have less need for the forum. They will not leave but will not be as active, undoubtedly they will return when it is upgrade time or they encounter a problem. Then there is life, some people cannot dedicate as much time through certain periods of their life.

I think we all have a responsibility to offer something back though as if we all just take the forum would suffer.


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

With regards to bean discussion i also agree.

However men can gain as much enjoyment from the aquiring and tinkering of equipment, this can be as much part of the hobby as the coffee itself. Take my neighbour he spends more time fixing and playinging with his HotRod than he does driving it.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Gangstarrrrr said:


> There's a lot of willy waving and people are quick to shoot down others if they disagree. And from a lot of the threads, you're given the impression that if you don't have expensive equipment, you might as well not bother making coffee or coming on the forum.


Not sure I agree Gangstarrrr - certainly there is, at times, *some* 'willy waving' and intemperate outbursts, but the forum remains, first and foremost, a friendly humorous place to learn and post about coffee. Also, look at the quick responses to new members making an often nervous tentative dip into the forum. They always receive a warm enthusiastic welcome which is as it should be. Members will drop off the forum for all sorts of reasons and themes and focus of interest will ebb and flow.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Things evolve or they die. The forum is getting bigger, which brings diversity. I still think the underlying impression of this place is friendly and helpful. The only trouble with asking for help, is you end up with a opinion. It is up to the OP to listen to and read all those opinions and then either ask more questions or make a decision. Unless it is a Court of law, there is no right or wrong, just opinions and the nice thing about having an opinion is that everyones opinion is equally as valid and as right or wrong as the next one.

The onlt caveat to that is commercial interest. What is the point of a forum?...to help its members. Who pays for that? sponsors...why would they do that?........I think Glenn has got a pretty good mix going on here. he does a good job which is basically thankless, so, from me, keep up the good work mate.


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

MarkyP said:


> Can I add another dimension?
> 
> People join because they are unhappy with some aspect of their coffee experience may that be kit, beans their own limitations etc... After a while they've solved all of their problems, they've got the kit that they're happy with and they are just sitting back enjoying the coffee - and not posting here!


Mainly this.

People come in, get a good understanding of what is required, kit, technique, sources etc and lets face it, there is A LOT of fantastic wisdom here on CFUK and then don't feel the need to widen that until, as someone else pointed out, they need/want a deeper understanding, better kit, new experiences in terms of coffee produced etc. For some that need for a deeper understanding is a continual pursuit, for others the journey is a slower more winding road.

I used to spend far too much time detailing my car and was forever on Detailers World, learning new techniques, understanding the products etc until I reached saturation point, I'd learned all I needed. I hadn't been on DW for a few years until I recently bought a new car and that re-awoke the interest and a need to check the latest thinking in detailing cars. I think the same is true here. People get to a point where they feel they understand enough, can produce what is to their tastes, wonderful coffee and feel no need to go further. Others are obsessive.

All in my humble opinion of course.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I have been on here for a long time now but am not a prolific poster, mostly due to running a business which takes my life away! However I like to pop over most days when having a chilled out coffee break and see what is new and of interest. I contribute where I can giving advice I feel I am qualified to give based on experience and starting the odd thread that I hope adds a bit of interest away from the norm.

Certainly the level of equipment on here has exploded recently, people upgrading twice in the space of 12 months! I think with that you expect a lot of talk around equipment, but it certainly has got a bit staid recently, moving into embarrassing. I guess though if you have forked out a quite considerable sum of a shiny new box you are going to defend it all the way which is understandable. What always gets me is that taste (literal) is so personal, we all get different things from different beans, the obsession that my toy is better than yours is particularly pathetic where there is no way of proving such a claim to all individual tastes. Surely we should just accept this and enjoy learning from each other with different set ups and bean types.

On the plus side there has been some collective purchase power through the forum that many of us have benefited from with massive efforts from certain individuals.

Definitely think we need more coffee talk, I'm probably more guilty than most in not keeping up with my IMM scorings. Must do better


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

As a long-standing member of the forum, I am well aware that I contribute to it much less these days than I used to. A lot of this is just because a change in personal circumstances leaves me with a lot less time to put fingers to the keyboard here. I still drop in every day and avidly read what's going on - it's my way of keeping in touch with developments so that when I next upgrade I won't have to start my research from scratch.

But there's also an element of contentment setting in that has removed my need to constantly strive for improvement. The coffee that I'm making at the moment suits me and my needs, so why keep striving for constant improvement? It's almost as though I have reached the point of diminishing returns - yes, with more effort/better equipment I can do better, but is it a worthwhile return for the time, money and effort? Everyone has to make up their own mind on that one.Probably just a temporary phase I am going through , and in due course I'll be on the upgrade trail again.

I have noticed, and actually commented several times, on the way the average espresso equipment standard and cost has increased over the years, and we have also gained some members with vast experience that they freely contribute. The whole character of the forum has changed since I first joined, and it is now one of the most worthwhile sources of coffee knowledge on the net.

In other walks (photography and shooting to name but two) a lot of the clubs that I joined seemed to be bragging venues at which people took delight in saying (perhaps not in so many words) "- look at what I've been able to afford, don't you wish you were me?" We don't see much of that on here - most of us take genuine delight in watching each other's progress up the ladder, and the friendliness and comradeship of this forum is an example to many of the other back-biting electronic forums that I have visited.


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

One thing I have noticed is CFUK is one of the more civilised online communities I visit. Some of the others, mainly car based can be unnecessarily horrible places at times !


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Ok... I've now had my first coffee of the morning and am almost fully functioning.

Positives - it isnt all gloom and doom as my initial post may have implied.

The grind-off, the upcoming members day (must remember to destroy my credit card), the recent competitions that Dave has put together.

The willingness of members to visit others / show them their setup


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Gangstarrrrr said:


> There's a lot of willy waving and people are quick to shoot down others if they disagree. And from a lot of the threads, you're given the impression that if you don't have expensive equipment, you might as well not bother making coffee or coming on the forum.


This probably came across a bit wrong... I frequent the forums daily as it is by and large such a friendly community with people falling over themselves to help... And the group buys and dsol have been amazing and benefitted a lot of people. It's the occasional flare ups and arms race that leave a bit of a sour taste (under extraction? Lol).


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

My work is cyclical, so sometimes I have plenty of free time and others none - that's a factor.

I agree with the earlier points that people will post more when they are considering what to buy or how to get it working, and less when all is well.

The group buys, raffles, grindoffs and members' days are excellent, though, and I've found this to be one of the most friendly online communities I've ever been involved in.

+1 to Gary's point about more on beans - we can't all be buying new kit every week, but everybody needs beans.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

I've been a member for quite a while now and I tend not to post too often because sometimes I feel that other, more knowledgable people have a more valid point, but I do come on regularly at the moment and have always found it a friendly forum with very little one upmanship or attitude and the people with the most expensive kit are often the first to post helpful answers to queries rather than taking an aloof attitude


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## gmason (Aug 9, 2012)

This is a very good forum.

I read questions every now and then and think to myself "Just trawl the site because the question has been answered innumerable times" and then I read the replies and realise just how welcoming, knowledgable and patient many of the forumites are and they like to share the enthusiasm. That is one of the strengths. For others, real life and/or other commitments gets in the way and the posts drop off and sometimes so do they. Hopefully they will still be richer for the experience.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

This is by far the friendliest large forum I have visited, there are a couple of other cosey ones (not coffee related). A good mix of characters, with wide ranging levels of interest.

But, hard as it is to believe, there is more to life than just extracting every last bit of liquid deliciousness from a dried, roasted seed of an inedible fruit. People have lives & other interests/responsibilities that can take up time that would otherwise be reserved for "coffee talk".

I know this...I saw it on a TV program once...back when I had a TV......and a life....;-)


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

To expand on what someone said above, sometimes you come to a forum looking for solutions to solve some problem you're facing, looking for advice on what the next step in taking your hobby to the next level is (as otherwise, where are you going to find out as all other sources of information are usually with the intention of pushing their product) or just for reassurance that you're not the only one getting mildly obsessed with a particularl interest.

As you find what you were looking for, after you pass the initial surge of enthusiasm inspired by the discussion on the forum, the better results from the new kit bought on advice from the forum or realising there are people as geeky and obsessive as you about that particular hobby and feel vindicated that you're not a weirdo, then sometimes you lose the incentive to visit so frequently.

I have been on photography forums, where when I got the kit that gave me the results I needed and realised I didn't really need to buy anything new to get what I needed, I lost interest in reading the same posts that come up again and again. I didn't plan on upgrading, buying any different lenses to do different types of photography and just didn't have the time to devote myself to it as a hobby.

Similarly, was on shaving forum too - once I found the kit that gave me consistent results without a bloodbath, I went off on my own to do my own thing and buy new soaps, creams etc as and when I need them. I know what's good and what to avoid and things don't move that fast in the area. I check in now and again but mostly I'm happy with the results I'm getting so no need to check in so frequently.

Coffee is relatively new as a full-on hobby for me. I've always been interested in drinking it - at least since I started uni in 2000 anyway and I had my Gaggia for 8 years. I just decided to take it so seriously relatively recently and then upgraded so for now it's still very interesting and I'm still learning a lot. Maybe other people like me on the shaving and photography forums found they were getting consistently good coffees from the kit they have and the level of their technique and ability and just decided to enjoy drinking it more than reading and talking about it so much! I suppose we eventually have to see our other halves' points of view that enjoyable as it is, it is just a nice drink and not life itself...


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Wow, just wow - you are all amazing!

As the nights draw in some familiar faces will return and others will go.

We all have different hobbies and priorities in our lives at different times.

What is very reassuring is that the forums remains a constant.

I frequently receive emails and PMs from members just checking in, to let me know they are still around, even if not posting as frequently.

I am truly grateful that the community is thriving and take great pride from the positive comments above.

Coffee Forums UK has helped hundreds of members and lurkers to learn more about coffee and buy the right equipment first time.

We should all take stock and revisit some of the brewing methods we enjoy, using the earliest equipment we laid hands on. This provides some great comparisons as to how you have improved over time.

I'm glad we're not in an arms race, and we have equal measures of members who have less than £50 to spend to get themselves into drinking better coffee, as we do those who spend more than £1500 to achieve the same goal - enjoy a nicely brewed coffee

Thank you once again for all being amazing. Keep doing what you do and we will continue to grow whilst being the friendliest forum we can be


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

For me, work with travel, 3 young kids have a lot to do with it but I'm also a reader. I get a lot of pleasure reading what you are all up to without necessarily posting. Some folks are more naturally quiet in large group conversations. I like to listen and read. I should probably say thanks more as I get a huge amount of useful info that I unfortunately take for granted.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Glenn said:


> I'm glad we're not in an arms race, and we have equal measures of members who have less than £50 to spend to get themselves into drinking better coffee, as we do those who spend more than £1500 to achieve the same goal - enjoy a nicely brewed coffee


That's so true. I spent a lot of years in clay pigeon shooting, and one of the things that I learned was that often the competitor to watch out for wasn't the one with a custom Browning, but the guy with a battered old gun (often a Remi 1100) who knew how to use it. It's great the way that everyone is welcomed here.

This is a true community, and I think that we all know to whom we owe the debt for that. Thank you Glenn, for running and supporting the forum so well.


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## titan (Jul 29, 2013)

Like all forums they ebb and flow. I joined to learn more about a subject I am interested in, making a decent cup of coffee. What equipment is good and what to avoid also decent suppliers for hardware and coffee beans. This forum supplied all that information. However once you can make a decent coffee what next, upgrade seems to be this forums answer with VST baskets and bottomless portafilters needed or an L1 with professional grinder required to be able to taste the definitive best coffee, not for me, my taste buds aren't that good. Definitely a touch of the kings new clothes about some of the threads which may be a bit intimidating for some.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

vintagecigarman said:


> That's so true. I spent a lot of years in clay pigeon shooting, and one of the things that I learned was that often the competitor to watch out for wasn't the one with a custom Browning, but the guy with a battered old gun (often a Remi 1100) who knew how to use it. It's great the way that everyone is welcomed here.
> 
> This is a true community, and I think that we all know to whom we owe the debt for that. Thank you Glenn, for running and supporting the forum so well.


Same with most things - my tennis coach uses a battered old racket, doesn't give a shit about changing his strings and is an absolutely lethal player but you get guys who play one bad set and decide it's the racket/strings/headband that's at fault and needs changed.


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## ziobeege_72 (May 6, 2013)

I am a newbie to CF but have been around for a few years on a couple of others. I post rarely on these others now, finding generally that they have decended generally into 'grumpy middle-aged men' syndrome. I enjoy a lively discussion but increasingly on these other forums such discussions are devoid of humour or civility, taking themselves a little too seriously with far too many aggressive and attacking posts.

I don't get the sense of that here. People seem knowledgeable, helpful and not completely up their own buttocks. Most importantly it seems to have a core of knowledgable and dedicated individuals who work hard to keep the topics moving and set the right tone - ie. interest/curiosity/passion for coffee but within the context of a hobby. It is always testing to any forum when there are movements in trends, techniques, gear and members which can upset the status quo but I reckon CF can handle it better than most.

So don't be too hard on yourselves!


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## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

The other morning I sat and read through many old posts from the start of various threads and it was great to see how things have changed ,not only equipment but opinions on types of beans and brewing methods.I've not been on here for too long but try to join in when I had something to put in to the thread.Ive gone from a Baby with a Starbucks Barista grinder to an SJ and a Fracino Little Gem, something which I wouldn't have done without the opinions and views on here.

I am sometimes disillusioned when I propose something and find that others dont think its the best idea since sliced bread,like the idea of an approval scheme for coffee shops but we cant all be great thinkers can we? The DSOL has shown things like really long resting times suit different beans which went against general opinion.Maybe a bit more on beans would be good,I can be guilty of not reviewing the beans Im using but this is because I dont feel I have enough experience.Just like being in a pub and as you feel ready to go up and sing at karaoke along comes a semi professional and you start to doubt your talent , this is how I feel when I want to share my opinion on beans so sometimes just dont bother.the worst thing about this is that the forum is welcoming and helpful to a fault .So like others I feel very welcome on the forum but lack of experience holding back my input.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What is totally refreshing is that I posted a thread asking why people are quiet or leave the forum, yet the replies have predominantly been about why we love it on here, I kinda hoped that would be the case.

I really enjoy this forum and its eclectic bunch of very knowledge people and enthusiastic coffee lovers, the community spirit is what keeps me here, on many occasions I see the help that members offer, like giving up their time to go round someone's house and point them in the right direction, like picking things up for people and posting them on without a question, like the hours the forum admin must put in, in the background, like the events and activities that have come up over the last year due to the willingness of people to get involved. I also thoroughly enjoy the debates at all levels and the grace that most members have when they upset someone or overstep the mark to say sorry.

But most of all this is an ever growing community of freindly like minded people, long may it remain...


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

^^^ A big plus one to that! ^^^

I've lurked on loads of forums ranging from cars, computers and AV.... the only one I've felt compelled to get involved with is this one. It's by far the most generous and welcoming forum I've seen.

Group hug anyone?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

I post far less than I used to, and don't check as often as I did, maybe looking at posts twice a week rather than daily. This is as I have less time on my hands to read through the forum and also less time to play with coffee. When I do I tend to look in the Brewed and Bean sub-forums as I don't have an interest in espresso machines.

Still a great forum though!


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

I probably post at around the same rate I always have. What I find though is that some people just have more knowledge and subsequently post fantastic replies to people's queries, therefore I have nothing to add.

Also, is it me or have discussions on brewed coffee reduced? I know most people are into Espresso based drinks on here, however, lets not forget that for a very limited budget someone can still make fantastic coffee. Maybe a perceived equipment cost barrier could be scaring off people?

Mind you, it's amazing what knowledge is in the old threads and I do like to have a good look through them from time to time. It's also amazing the effort that is put in by people on this forum to help others in their love and passion for good coffee


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## noelweston (Oct 7, 2012)

As another one of the "guilty" parties - I've been a member for a while, post very little, have learned a lot and been able to contribute a little bit back. This is much the same on other forums I visit - saxophones & cars particularly.

Part of the reason I don't post much is that I don't feel I can offer that much - I'm still at the classic/MC2 stage, and much as I'd love to upgrade, I simply don't have the money at the moment. I'm pretty happy with the results I get, and with the beans from my local supplier (although I know I could get more out of the beans with better equipment, I try my best...). My palate is not great, so I'm also not much use in detailed discussions about beans & flavours - although I know what I like, and thoroughly enjoy my coffees.

Another element is that compared to the many experts on here, I simply don't know enough to want to add to discussions in most cases! Where I can contribute (e.g. basic classic maintenance) I do and have join in.

Having said all that, I visit and read the forum pretty much every day, and have to say that I have no negative feelings at all - everyone is friendly and helpful, and there is little or no snobbishness about equipment or skill levels.

Thanks to everyone involved, and can I please hang around and listen some more?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Geordie Boy said:


> I probably post at around the same rate I always have. What I find though is that some people just have more knowledge and subsequently post fantastic replies to people's queries, therefore I have nothing to add.
> 
> Also, is it me or have discussions on brewed coffee reduced? I know most people are into Espresso based drinks on here, however, lets not forget that for a very limited budget someone can still make fantastic coffee. Maybe a perceived equipment cost barrier could be scaring off people?
> 
> Mind you, it's amazing what knowledge is in the old threads and I do like to have a good look through them from time to time. It's also amazing the effort that is put in by people on this forum to help others in their love and passion for good coffee


Brewed coffee for me , when done correctly, is more enjoyable than espresso. I have to say I enjoy the ritual in preparing espresso a little more than brewed though!


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I think this is STILL the best coffee community on the net. It is true it has changed a lot since I first joined 18 months ago.

First, the great thing about the forum is the wide range of opinions, help and knowledge there is. I think everybody, from the novice to the more expert user can learn something to help them improve.

However, I think that before, people used to help people with "inferior" machines a lot more. Now, people just tell them to spend 600 quid on a new grinder or espresso machine when all they want is advice on how to get the best out of their Gaggias, Saecos or De Longhis. Before, there seemed to be more willingness to accept that some people loved coffee but could not stretch to a thousand pounds for new kit.

Also, have to agree with Ronsil, it was much friendlier and more fun when we talked about coffee and were less technical. While technical discussion is of course important, it is also important to remain friendly. As Ronsil also puts it - there are too many "shoot downs". Opinion after all is just that, opinion. I think the boards should try to be all inclusive as they are getting to that point where if you don't have a minimum Mazzer and a Rocket, you are looked down on. That's just snobbish in my opinion.

Having said that, and as I have already stated, it is still the best forum for coffee.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

xiuxiuejar said:


> I think this is STILL the best coffee community on the net. It is true it has changed a lot since I first joined 18 months ago.
> 
> First, the great thing about the forum is the wide range of opinions, help and knowledge there is. I think everybody, from the novice to the more expert user can learn something to help them improve.
> 
> ...


Interesting , as I have not been on as long as you . I disagree to some degree on the advise given for a decent grinder, I'm not sure anyone would recommend a £600 grinder to go with a gaggia . People do still recommend hand grinders as the value entry level, and MC2. I think a lot of time people ask what there budget is for a grinder( I know I do ) , and it's one of those difficult things .if you have picked up a gaggia for under a £100 say and you don't want a hand grinder , then it doesn't leave a huge amount of options if you don't want to spend over £100 again. ( secondhand mc2 upwards) . Mc2 come up second hand so often that i wouldnt recommend a new one .

There's a lot of gaggia users on here , whose posts I look for , because they know how to use it ,make great coffee and recommend new beans and tastes, and in all honesty know a lot more than me ( this isn't difficult btw ) . I dont care what kit people have.

. The place is a richer one for the diversity of machines and techniques on here ,like you I dont have a head for a lot of the technical aspects of espresso, but there is a place for it ,as it help others replicate extractions if they have similar equipment or are using same beans .

Most newbies , myself included , struggle with the grinder part of the equation , and come here , because they can't get a 25 second double or their coffe has no crema or is bitter . All resulting from no grinder or a poor blade one recommended b john Lewis for espresso.

I think the forum is amazing too, the way the same questions get answered over and over again, by the same people ,with generosity ,warmth ,helpfulness and enthusiasm is a pleasure to see,and makes it different to other forums who just say " go google an answer or look at the sticky "

Ps this isn't meant to be a shoot down ,I just think there still tons of help there for people with entry level machines , I know I got loads of people when I had the silvia not so long ago.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I think the forum is amazing too, the way the same questions get answered over and over again, by the same people ,with generosity ,warmth ,helpfulness and enthusiasm is a pleasure to see,and makes it different to other forums who just say " go google an answer or look at the sticky "


This gets mentioned a lot, and for good reason, it shows the welcoming nature of this forum which is the reason I am here. I'm fairly technically minded, and most projects/hobbies I will just look for information and maybe make the odd question post on a forum, but I rarely stay involved in the long term. The open-ness and friendliness here is the reason I stayed


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Indeed, I can understand newcomers getting alienated by discussions of thermosyphon stalls on the Londinium or grinders that cost the price of a second hand car. It's the problem that once you get sucked into the technology of espresso (which has its own appeal to those who like machines) it's difficult to get out of it.

But part of the appeal of espresso is that is is complex, subtle and difficult. I happen to love it, but it isn't the be-all and end-all of coffee.

It's easy to forget you can get a perfectly decent cup of coffee out of a cafétière, even (although many will regard this as heresy) with pre-ground coffee (if the coffee is good quality and fresh) - certainly a better cup of coffee than you get at your average British caff and worlds apart from the instant coffee many of us were brought up on. It's like in many areas, once you go from 'entry level' to 'high end', the costs rocket and the returns diminish. Let's not be snobbish about low cost machine or even bean-to-cup machines and accept that many people love coffee but don't have the time and obsessiveness needed to be a 'home barista'.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

RoloD said:


> Indeed, I can understand newcomers getting alienated by discussions of thermosyphon stalls on the Londinium or grinders that cost the price of a second hand car. It's the problem that once you get sucked into the technology of espresso (which has its own appeal to those who like machines) it's difficult to get out of it.
> 
> But part of the appeal of espresso is that is is complex, subtle and difficult. I happen to love it, but it isn't the be-all and end-all of coffee.
> 
> It's easy to forget you can get a perfectly decent cup of coffee out of a cafétière, even (although many will regard this as heresy) with pre-ground coffee (if the coffee is good quality and fresh) - certainly a better cup of coffee than you get at your average British caff and worlds apart from the instant coffee many of us were brought up on. It's like in many areas, once you go from 'entry level' to 'high end', the costs rocket and the returns diminish. Let's not be snobbish about low cost machine or even bean-to-cup machines and accept that many people love coffee but don't have the time and obsessiveness needed to be a 'home barista'.


I wholeheartedly agree with all of the above. The difficult bit is when the coffee and or the machine doesn't meet the expectation of the user . Either a pressurised basket or bad pre ground or bean to cup not giving you that espresso or latte Taste you want . That's when advise can come across snobby I suppose ( I realise I myself am guilty of this, although unintentionally ), or perhaps the user find it difficult that gear they have, won't give the taste they desire.

. Before coming here I bought a price of crap machine reviewed by a broadsheet and then couldn't understand why my pre ground Taylor's tasted like ash in it , there is a lot of seriously poor reviews and advice from non specialist retailers and publications out there .

The other part is , that you know there is better tasting coffee to be made at home ( by any method you suggest ) , and my enthusiasm for getting people to open their eyes, sometimes I guess ,can come across differently to the way I intended.

Plus I am an opinionated loudmouth







but am generous to a fault .....


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## Anthorn (Sep 14, 2013)

I post on various forums currently concerning coffee and long-standing on tobacco and pipe-smoking forums and I can say with all truthfulness and accuracy that flaking is not unique to any forum, it happens everywhere. Personally, I think it comes under two main categories: (a) They've lost interest in the subject matter and (b) they've found somewhere else they like better.

But as stated in a previous post in this thread there is the forceful argument which attempts to shoot down another poster. Everyone has an opinion and has the right to make it. Personally, I don't reply to a forceful argument or criticism because then I enter a downward slope to more arguments and bad feeling. I'll reasonably discuss till the cows come home but defending myself on a forum isn't an option and such things are dismissed without a second thought. But some people don't have that outlook and will leave a forum in disgust.


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