# ECM upgrade virus caught unfortunately



## Deansie26

Well after reading a mountain of info there where a few machines, Rocket R58, Izzo etc but I went for the

ECM Heidelberg Elektronika II Profi. I prefer the volumetric dosing feature. I'm really please with the unit so far and it oozes quality. Still waiting for my new grinder to arrive so will post that up when it does!

Also to add a big thanks to Claudette and Marko at Bella, fantastic service and communication, first class unlike a few other dealers.

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## GCGlasgow

Nice machine deansie, what grinder you thinking of getting?


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## MildredM

Whooo! I love seeing a big box being opened! And the ECM looks absolutely fantastic! How exciting


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## Deansie26

Thanks GC, getting the Fiorenzato F4E nano, 58mm burrs and I like its features


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## Deansie26

Thanks Mildred, the pictures don't do it justice. I've been very excited, microfiber clothes bought today for keeping it sparkling lol.


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## jlarkin

MildredM said:


> Whooo! I love seeing a big box being opened!


Hopefully snakehips isn't around he'll twist these words in a second.

Nice looking machine that!


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## lake_m

Very nice machine!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Oh so nice! I take one does not need to lubricate the cam on those, as it doesn't have one?


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## Deansie26

Ha ha

Thanks jlarkin


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## Deansie26

No lubricating of any can, just the automatic group cleaning and depressing function, plus the usual de scaling cycle.

Thanks I'm really pleased with it. Need a nicer kitchen now ha ha.


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## MildredM

Deansie26 said:


> Thanks Mildred, the pictures don't do it justice. I've been very excited, microfiber clothes bought today for keeping it sparkling lol.


They do, it really is a fabulous machine









Microfibre cloths, I've just discovered the one from Lakeland, the glass one. It's really good


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## Deansie26

Will need to check it out


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## kennyboy993

Lovely machine - congratulations.


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## salty

Looks great - must be very exciting!


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## MildredM

When will your grinder arrive? Another box of excitement!!


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## Deansie26

Thanks Kenny and Salty, it's really some machine. Once I get to grips with it properly I think it will really come into its own.

It will take me a while to get out of my gaggia routine, not used to being able to do all at once. One thing I've noticed is the milk steaming is so much better and I don't mean time but the quality of the froth, is night and day. My latte art has improved already lol. I had many good coffees with the gaggia but consistency was more hit and miss.

The EMC came with a two hole steam tip which I'll be swapping for a 4 or 5 hole as I've read it's even quicker.

One thing I'd like to ask yous is I get 4 programmable buttons. I mainly drink double shot latte's so programmed first for a double shot, ill do the next for a single shot- what do you suggest for the next two?

Won't be for another week or two Mildred, excuse for more pics lol. Still can't believe I was allowed this machine lol.


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## lake_m

On mine I have programmed a really long flush for portafilter cleaning etc which you have to 'kill' yourself by pressing the button again, and the other a short flush just prior to inserting portafilter.


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## kennyboy993

I have a mechanika Deansie so can't add anything to lake's advice.

I have the 5 hole tip and had to put the 2 hole back on as it was too fast for me on single drink amount of milk! Hopefully go back to it when I get more experienced.

Out of interest - what boiler pressure range has BB set your pstat at? Just turned mine down a little very recently and has really improved things.


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## Deansie26

Thanks lake, I was thinking along them lines. It's my first HX and I find the flush no problem what so ever, was a little skeptical as some folk seem to really not like doing it from what I've read. Warms my cup. How long have you had the machine? Are you happy with it/ any gripes? I'm so pleased with it and feel I've made the right choice for us with the volumetric feature.


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## Deansie26

Just checked Kenny and it settles on 1.25 bar, I'd gave thought this was set at EMC? What was yours at and how has it improved things?

I'm realing for me having the gaggia was great for leading on as it could be difficult to be consistent, many more larger bubbles in my froth than I'm getting now, it's velvety ��

Have a bit if a caffeine head though as I keep wanting to make them lol.


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## lake_m

Sorry @Deansie26 I don't have the ECM - it's a La Spaziale, but it does have volumetric dosing buttons same as yours.


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## kennyboy993

Yeah lovely shots eh - I'm really loving mine and becoming a bit of a HX head.... I love the flexibility a tuned cooling flush can give.

Then again if I'd bought a synchronika I'd be extolling the virtues of DBs instead!

Yeah ECM will set them though I made an assumption BB changed mine, though haven't verified that. Anyway mine used to cycle between 1.4 and 1.6 bar and it was a bit of a steam monster. Steam power was sometimes too much plus the flashing from hot water tap was crazy.

So mine now cycles between approx 1.2 and 1.4 and things are much better. Steaming nice and powerful without being manic and smaller cooling flushes required at the group head - just feels better.


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## Deansie26

The Vivaldi s1 was a real condenser for me, a lovely looking machines.


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## lake_m

Deansie26 said:


> The Vivaldi s1 was a real condenser for me, a lovely looking machines.


They're an 'acquired taste' should we say. But it does it for me and that's what counts. I wanted a 'coffee shop' look to our 'coffee corner' and the S1 actually looks like a small commercial cafe machine. Apart from that, it makes damn good coffee! Would love to put the wooden sides on, but mega bucks. I've got the pimp LED down-lighters but don't want to open the case yet!







I think if I'd gone the E61 route, I would want the volumetrics too. Couldn't be without them now. You've got the best of both worlds!


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## Deansie26

I must have the acquired taste you talk of lake as I really like them and totally get what you mean by the "coffee shop" look. When I researched the S1 there where only happy owners, I never found any that didn't love there machine which says it all. I'm with you all the way on volumetric


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## Deansie26

Finally got a new grinder-fiorenzato f83, is without a doubt bigger than I invisaged lol. Even after seeing a photo of Ewan's one beside his gaggia. This thing is massive! Took a couple of shots to get dialled in but got there. Mrs isn't to please so we will see if I get to keep it long term. New kitchen getting fitted so hoping it will go ok. Fingers crossed I get to keep it, top notch coffee corner!









  

Cheers Dfk


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## DoubleShot

Swap the hopper for a much smaller one and it'll be fine!


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## CardinalBiggles

Deansie26 said:


> Thanks GC, getting the Fiorenzato F4E nano, 58mm burrs and I like its features


Ive just spent a happy hour or two researching this one, and frankly it looks fantastic. Fair value, good features and all the user reviews are very positive indeed. This has gone straight onto my shortlist, if I can find one. Where did you source yours from please? And is there service backup? It seems quite a niche segment......

Thanks,


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## CardinalBiggles




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## kennyboy993

Top setup you've got there now Deansie - I'm envious.


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## 4085

CardinalBiggles said:


>


ask for Eugene

http://www.caffevinci.com/machines-equipment-c1/grinders-c8/fiorenzato-f4-e-nano-coffee-grinder-p167


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## Deansie26

Thanks! A short hopper will make a big difference, my wife will get used to it-was just a big difference from the small gaggia mdf.

Got this bad boy dialled in now, you shot in 3.8 seconds! Sweet!!


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## MildredM

Deansie26 said:


> Thanks! A short hopper will make a big difference, my wife will get used to it-was just a big difference from the small gaggia mdf.
> 
> Got this bad boy dialled in now, you shot in 3.8 seconds! Sweet!!


A short hopper will make a big difference







and yes, you do get used to them once the newness wears off.

Wow! Speedy!


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## Deansie26

I'm going to really enjoy it Mildred, I can already tell-so much cleaner than the Mdf being a dose. How are you finding the Hg1? Is it a weekend grinder?


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## Deansie26

Hi cardinal, sorry for late reply. The f4 looks great and I almost got it myself. Let us know if you pull the trigger on one.

They sell them here also http://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/MobileModels.aspx?ModelID=2798


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## CardinalBiggles

dfk41 said:


> ask for Eugene
> 
> http://www.caffevinci.com/machines-equipment-c1/grinders-c8/fiorenzato-f4-e-nano-coffee-grinder-p167


Last time I asked for an Eugene I found myself tied up on a Shanghai steam ship being chased by Somali pirates off the coast of Africa......

Oh, no.... it wasn't Eugene. It was Eugenie. And her husband didn't like it.......


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## CardinalBiggles

.


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## CardinalBiggles

Deansie26 said:


> Hi cardinal, sorry for late reply. The f4 looks great and I almost got it myself. Let us know if you pull the trigger on one.
> 
> They sell them here also http://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/Mobile/MobileModels.aspx?ModelID=2798


I think it's at the top of the list atm. The extra £300-£400 I would have spent on the next level of grinder up can now go on the machine itself, which takes me to the next level.......

ooooo-errrr missus....... It's all coming together.......exciting......


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## Deansie26

Ha ha, that's exactly what I thought, it is exciting for sure. I hope your happy with your choices in the end, what machine are you looking at now?

How I went from a baby gaggia to my current set in only a few months I'm not quite sure!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Excellent setup, enjoy!


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## MildredM

Deansie26 said:


> I'm going to really enjoy it Mildred, I can already tell-so much cleaner than the Mdf being a dose. How are you finding the Hg1? Is it a weekend grinder?


It's more of a 'when-Ian-is-around-to-turn-the-handle' grinder, actually.

In the meantime I can at least get my fix from just looking at it


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## CardinalBiggles

Deansie26 said:


> Ha ha, that's exactly what I thought, it is exciting for sure. I hope your happy with your choices in the end, what machine are you looking at now?
> 
> How I went from a baby gaggia to my current set in only a few months I'm not quite sure!


Ive rushed there myself. I stumbled across the Apartamento, liked the price point, and within weeks my credit card has threatened to leave home in disgust for Cruelty to Plastic .....

I've got She Who Must Be Obeyed onside today, so I'll be moving on this sooner rather than later. The only "request"/"condition"/Führer Befehl was that the de Longhi goes to free up some counter space...... (we will see about that.!)

Anyway, I've decided on a short list of:

Bezzera Micata Top - The Alfa Romeo of coffee..... but hopefully not as rusty. I was attracted by the 4L reservoir.... but I'm probably going to cut this as there is almost no support for the brand in the UK. I can't even find a stockist. (including BB). It's tiny on the cup warmer too...... Stylish though.

The 2 serious contenders then are....... drumroll please........

Rocket V series ( Giotto or Mozzafiato.. or Mafioso or whatever). This is a HE machine, copper boiler and reservoir fill only. It also has/is about to have a PID, so I'm expecting some great rollout deals over the summer on PIDless models clearance. I love the white dials. I love the bigger knobs. And it's had great performance reviews. This is the Dolly Parton of Freudian Coffee Machine purchasing behaviour!

The other choice would be ECM Mechanica IV/Profitec 500.The engineering in the Profitec really appeals. SS boiler, upgraded valves and, iirc, pump. Also no "Shit I've burned my fekkin fingers" steam wand on the Profitec. ECM isnt far off for a little bit less money.

I can't decide which Atm so any advice would be welcome....

Tally ho!


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## Deansie26

Ha ha, it does look different, conversation starter for sure.


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## Deansie26

CardinalBiggles said:


> Ive rushed there myself. I stumbled across the Apartamento, liked the price point, and within weeks my credit card has threatened to leave home in disgust for Cruelty to Plastic .....
> 
> I've got She Who Must Be Obeyed onside today, so I'll be moving on this sooner rather than later. The only "request"/"condition"/Führer Befehl was that the de Longhi goes to free up some counter space...... (we will see about that.!)
> 
> Anyway, I've decided on a short list of:
> 
> Bezzera Micata Top - The Alfa Romeo of coffee..... but hopefully not as rusty. I was attracted by the 4L reservoir.... but I'm probably going to cut this as there is almost no support for the brand in the UK. I can't even find a stockist. (including BB). It's tiny on the cup warmer too...... Stylish though.
> 
> The 2 serious contenders then are....... drumroll please........
> 
> Rocket V series ( Giotto or Mozzafiato.. or Mafioso or whatever). This is a HE machine, copper boiler and reservoir fill only. It also has/is about to have a PID, so I'm expecting some great rollout deals over the summer on PIDless models clearance. I love the white dials. I love the bigger knobs. And it's had great performance reviews. This is the Dolly Parton of Freudian Coffee Machine purchasing behaviour!
> 
> The other choice would be ECM Mechanica IV/Profitec 500.The engineering in the Profitec really appeals. SS boiler, upgraded valves and, iirc, pump. Also no "Shit I've burned my fekkin fingers" steam wand on the Profitec. ECM isnt far off for a little bit less money.
> 
> I can't decide which Atm so any advice would be welcome....
> 
> Tally ho!


You sounds exactly where I was not long ago, all I would say is that it took a while for my wife to come to spending so much in a set up which in the end proved to be a very good thing as I changed my mind several times, machines considered where the sage dual boiler, Rocket R58 and the Vivaldi ii-all great machines but would I have been as satisfied with with them as I am with my Elektronika? I doubt I would have. Defo take your time, a feature that was important to me was volumetric controls, me and my wife both like this-takes this variable out of our hands and makes our coffee that bit more consistent.

Also a rotary pump and levers instead of wheels was more important to me and less so a PID. Think of the features you must have and it might help you narrow it down but it is a hard decision/ enjoyable mind.

And if you can go with Bella Batista, Claudette was fantastic-responded very quickly and couldn't help enough. Even if you find the machine cheaper I'd honestly pay the extra as the customer service is worth it. I'm having a real headache at the minute getting a refund from another supplier who I won't name, don't put yourself through the agro!


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## CardinalBiggles

If you look on my post today in the new members section you will see the confusion I was having with Rocket. Basically the problem was the dealer pushing a Rocket V2 Giotto as a roll out model, and a V3 PID as a new model. Looking at the YouTube vids, that V2 in his store room must have been there for 5 years, and it is the V3 that is the roll-out model for the new V model. Grrr. I spent most of today researching Rocket, good and bad. I found an excellent spreadsheet in the new members area with all the features for the Rocket and ECM/Profitec laid out and highlighted (Red/Amber/Green) and read the entire series of posts about the Rocket marque. It's good, but it's still Italian. There are ****** in the armour when it comes to depth of engineering, but spare parts are reasonable and readily available, so at the price I've been quoted I havent totally ruled out the Rocket yet. I do admit though, that when I see the Giotto I still slip along to the next one up with the black dials for just that TINY bit more.....

I did find a dealer for the Bezzera btw, but I havent put it on the shortlist. The Rocket is as weak as I would want to go for engineering depth, and that's a pretty good product.

Ive found an incredible deal on my grinder, so the ECM/Profitec can come to the fore now. Everyone sells these at full list price pretty much, so BB will certainly have the opportunity to quote. Top of the list tonight are the ECM Mechanika IV Profi (levers, rotary pump, option to plumb it in) and the Profitec 500. Which has none of that, but the design and build was getting me seriously drooling. I should point out that Ive driven Mercedes for the last 15 years for exactly the reasons that Profitec appeals to me..... simple stuff done very, very well.

So now to look more closely at these. Together the products interleave to run a range of prices from £1300-£1800. Excluding the glorious Profitec 700 on price and size grounds.

Lets see where I end up.


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## 4085

@CardinalBiggles

Have a drink made on each machine. Will you be able to detect a difference.......I doubt it.....after that, it is aesthetics


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## Deansie26

As David said if your lucky enough to be able to go try them then I'm sure you will know what's for you, be sure and let us know. You can always squeeze out that little bit extra lol


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## CardinalBiggles

I spoke to BB today, and very pleasant it was. I've narrowed my machine choice now to two models, the final choice being dependent on worktop space.

These things don't look big in the pictures, but when you mesure out the space for real - cor!

So I'll check out the kitchen placement,.... slightly affected now that I might bite the bullet and try and stretch to a 64mm grinder while the going is good, and the summer sales are on, and be done with it for ever.

Honest. No, really. I mean it.... I do.... nope. None. Zero upgrades. I'm having immunisation shots against upgradeitis.....

Now, where is my tape measure......

Some of those grinders are big buggahs, and won't fit under my cupboards.


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## kennyboy993

Ha ha good way to treat upgradeitis - go big on your first purchase, like your style


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## CardinalBiggles

Btw, the Fiorenzato F4E is being updated with a user interface/display similar to that used on the rest of the range. No wonder I had such a good deal on it.

If you arent bothered about a new panel there are serious deals to be had. Best price was £385, including VAT. There were a couple of places at that sort of price, but tbh not all of them were businesses I would want to do business with. I kept looking for the yellow Reliant Robin van on their websites....!


Continuous micrometric grinding adjustment

E Model = single-dose system

Standard coating

Standard fork

Grinding adjustment with ring nut

Power: 250 Watt

Flat grinders, diameter 58 mm

Coffee bean container capacity: 0.6 Kg

Grinder rev.: 1400/min (50 Hz) - 1600/min (60 Hz)

Net weight: 10 Kg

Dimensions: 169x473x240 mm


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## Ryan1664

What a beaut


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## PaulL

dfk41 said:


> @CardinalBiggles
> 
> Have a drink made on each machine. Will you be able to detect a difference.......I doubt it.....after that, it is aesthetics


And design decisions, component choices and location, drain taps on boilers, cup height under grouphead, capacity of drip tray etc. I agree on whether we can taste a difference between machines (most of us are not supertasters) but on high end machines there are other factors which we don't take into account until we're aware of them. It's why DaveC reviews are different to most.


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## Deansie26

Treated myself again!!!! God I'm bloody good to myself









As I was a lucky bugger and won a quality tamper I had to buy the Emc tamper stAtion to go with it. Sure it will make my coffee taste better ?


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## igm45

@Deansie26 it definitely will mate.

No doubt


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## nlaul

CardinalBiggles said:


> The other choice would be ECM Mechanica IV/Profitec 500.The engineering in the Profitec really appeals. SS boiler, upgraded valves and, iirc, pump. Also no "Shit I've burned my fekkin fingers" steam wand on the Profitec. ECM isnt far off for a little bit less money.
> 
> Tally ho!


Ha, I'm struggling with exactly the same dilemma. The Profitec 500 vs. the Mechanica IV profi. It'll be my first HX machine, so lot's of research has gone into it (and quite a bit of indecision, too.) The ECM machines look beautiful and I like the lever vs. the knobs personally.


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## Deansie26

What machine do you have at the minute?

Not sure if you have considered volumetric but it is a really fantastic feature to have, really helps keep your shots consistent, when you get over the honeymoon period with experimenting etc it's really super for using day to day. Personally for me it was a feature my final machine choice had to have and I'm very glad of it now.


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## kennyboy993

Deansie26 said:


> Treated myself again!!!! God I'm bloody good to myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I was a lucky bugger and won a quality tamper I had to buy the Emc tamper stAtion to go with it. Sure it will make my coffee taste better


Looks great mate - please let us know how you get on with it? Have been considering.

Been using a tamping mat and has been fine though kind of don't like pressing bottom of basket against mat - especially as there's sometimes grind fines on there.


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## Deansie26

Thanks Kenny, basically does what any version of it would do, I just wanted the wee fancy one to go with my machine and tamper ha ha. Will last forever though and is nice and shiny lol.


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## icom102

How do you find the grinder?


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## Deansie26

icom102 said:


> How do you find the grinder?


Hi, I really like it, have no complaints what so ever. I did look at the Ecm automatic-64 grinder as I think the design would compliment my Elektronika but this came up went for it. It's great specs for the price.


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## icom102

I have looked at the ECM grinder but its getting bad press on here so back to the drawing board


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## Deansie26

icom102 said:


> I have looked at the ECM grinder but its getting bad press on here so back to the drawing board


There is a lot of knowledgeable folk on here who can really identify small small differences but in all honestly if you like the look of the Ecm grinder I bet it would be a super grinder for your espresso needs. Differences between all these high end grinders will be on the whole not very noticeable to the average coffee enthusiast.


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## Deansie26

Finally got round to getting a small hopper for my F83, I really like it as it will look fuller with beans more often and the big one is really big. Had to order a special ring from Italia (thanks Dave aka Spud36 for help with this) and the mazzer mini hopper.


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## M4xime

Looking great!


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## Deansie26

M4xime said:


> Looking great!


Takes a bit of getting used to lol


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## Deansie26

I can't believe more folk don't want volumetric on this forum, I just love the convenience and consistency with a family and busy life.


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## wan

where is your gaggia and grinder before?


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## Deansie26

wan said:


> where is your gaggia and grinder before?


I sold the baby gaggia and gaggia mdf I had previously


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## ATZ

Deansie26 said:


> I can't believe more folk don't want volumetric on this forum, I just love the convenience and consistency with a family and busy life.


Adds an extra layer of electronics that I don't feel are necessary IMO. More to go wrong, plus while your volumes may be fixed you'd have to recalibrate for every bean if you change regularly like me.


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## Deansie26

Not being necessary is subjective, a dishwasher/ tumble dryer etc aren't necessary but can make your life a little easier.

I really don't adjust the volumes that often, 16g of coffee in, 32g of espresso out. The odd time I'll adjust if its a particularly bitter etc taste.

Unless you have a good lever I'm sure I probably get more consistent coffee as the human factor of knocking of the flow at the exact point every time is removed. Only my opinion


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## u2jewel

I can now see 1 benefit of volumetric, which I didn't know about at the time of choosing machine.

Popcorn and naked portafilter have something in common. I don't know what it is, but something magical, hypnotic and therapeutic.

Number of times I've burnt my popcorn in the frying pan, because it wanted to see 1 more 'pop'.

Number of times my shot went beyond optimum, because I was mesmerised by the beautiful stripes flowing out of the naked pf and lost track of the weight shown on the scale or the second on the shot timer..

If I had the volumetric, I could fully submerge myself in the gazing of the beautiful flow without keeping one eye on something else!

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I enjoy the watching as much as the drinking ☺


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## kennyboy993

Deansie26 said:


> I can't believe more folk don't want volumetric on this forum, I just love the convenience and consistency with a family and busy life.


I do man I do.....

Is on list if I ever upgrade. It just seems a bit silly to go from mechanika profi to electronika.

And ecm have confirmed they don't intend to make a synchronika with volumetrics :-(


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## hotmetal

Hahaha! I recognise that symptom. I first got a naked portafilter to check up on my distribution (and make space for scales between cup and drip tray). Inevitably you check each shot to see how the bottom of the basket wets, and hope for a lovely central striped pour. On the occasions it doesn't go according to plan, you get a Kaldi's arrow in the eye (my word for a well-aimed spritz) or you find yourself trying to 'will' that little dry spot in the middle of the basket to join in the fun before you have to kill the shot - it can get quite exciting in a silly kind of way, the race against the clock/scales!

I've burnt popcorn too...


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## wan

Deansie26 said:


> I sold the baby gaggia and gaggia mdf I had previously


ohhh..i miss that.


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## Deansie26

u2jewel said:


> I can now see 1 benefit of volumetric, which I didn't know about at the time of choosing machine.
> 
> Popcorn and naked portafilter have something in common. I don't know what it is, but something magical, hypnotic and therapeutic.
> 
> Number of times I've burnt my popcorn in the frying pan, because it wanted to see 1 more 'pop'.
> 
> Number of times my shot went beyond optimum, because I was mesmerised by the beautiful stripes flowing out of the naked pf and lost track of the weight shown on the scale or the second on the shot timer..
> 
> If I had the volumetric, I could fully submerge myself in the gazing of the beautiful flow without keeping one eye on something else!
> 
> Maybe I'm a weirdo, but I enjoy the watching as much as the drinking ☺


Jewel that is a real thing you describe amongst us coffee hippies, I've lost count of the amount of times I've said to my wife "quick honey come over here" to watch that thick brown nectar ha ha coffee porn lol. Glad none of my work colleagues can read this lol.


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## Deansie26

What will you do Kenny? I can't wait to see what route you go down, I've zero doubt you will upgrade first lol. Your resisting already lol.


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## kennyboy993

Deansie26 said:


> What will you do Kenny? I can't wait to see what route you go down, I've zero doubt you will upgrade first lol. Your resisting already lol.


Ha ha I'm happy to stay as I am Deansie - probably a grinder sometime in 2018 though that will be it.

I do like to talk about it though so threads like this is a good place ;-)


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