# Magnesium is tasty



## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

I have been purchasing bottled water from a local "ethnic supermarket" for a while now, not just because it's super cheap, but I actually really like the taste of it. Recently, I realised that it had no magnesium whatsoever in it, and a bit of research suggests this is because they remove magnesium from the water before bottling. Apparently they do this to sell the magnesium but I can't comment on the accuracy of this - perhaps they don't remove anything but this water is not bottled in the UK so perhaps regulations etc differ elsewhere... I don't know enough about this to comment.

Anyway, today I had ran out and made some filter coffee with Buxton instead - had a look at the label beforehand and noticed it contains 24mg/l of magnesium, according to the label. Obviously I can't be sure it's the Magnesium, but there was a very noticeable change in taste.

I haven't read many threads on here about water, so perhaps this is all known knowledge, but just thought I'd share. Also, Rave's Colombia Suarez is surprisingly tasty brewed - I'd bought it for espresso mainly.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Water is very much a consideration when getting the best out of your brew, and there are definitely a few topics covering the subject.

There is also this book if you want to explore the subject further: https://waterforcoffeebook.com


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Buxton is on the hard side, has a lot of bicarbonate, there are better waters out there (though you can mix with Glaceau Smart Water to improve it). That said, if you're enjoying an improvement, you now have datum to compare against.

There's not really a normal level of magnesium in water, can be anything from virtually none to as much magnesium as calcium (in mg/L as per label on bottle). Commonly, there'll be about 5x as much calcium as magnesium though. My experience of high calcium & very low magnesium is fairly generic coffee/choc flavours, but can still be sweet. However, controlled comparisons are hard to do with bottled water as something else is always different as well, but some magnesium certainly seems desirable.

Odd if they do remove magnesium specifically, for drinking water magnesium has been shown to have health benefits. Distilled water marketed for drinking usually has calcium &/or magnesium added.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Buxton is on the hard side, has a lot of bicarbonate, there are better waters out there (though you can mix with Glaceau Smart Water to improve it). That said, if you're enjoying an improvement, you now have datum to compare against.
> 
> There's not really a normal level of magnesium in water, can be anything from virtually none to as much magnesium as calcium (in mg/L as per label on bottle). Commonly, there'll be about 5x as much calcium as magnesium though. My experience of high calcium & very low magnesium is fairly generic coffee/choc flavours, but can still be sweet. However, controlled comparisons are hard to do with bottled water as something else is always different as well, but some magnesium certainly seems desirable.
> 
> Odd if they do remove magnesium specifically, for drinking water magnesium has been shown to have health benefits. Distilled water marketed for drinking usually has calcium &/or magnesium added.


Yes admittedly I hadn't (yet) considered anything other than Magnesium but having a closer look at the label, there's also practically zero calcium in this water I'd been drinking too - just 0.3mg/l - strange.

As for the health thing, of course, that's why I'm surprised - the water is referred to as "spring water" on the label and doesn't mention any removal of minerals etc.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

YerbaMate170 said:


> "ethnic supermarket"


?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

YerbaMate170 said:


> As for the health thing, of course, that's why I'm surprised - the water is referred to as "spring water" on the label and doesn't mention any removal of minerals etc.


Spring water is usually unadulterated, lots of spring waters have levels of calcium & magnesium that are lower than WHO/EU guidelines.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Magnesium is vital for coffee brewing water. It is the major extractor mineral. Higher levels of Mg extract more aggressively than lower. There is quite a big range of acceptable amounts of Mg in water. So trying to brew without Mg in your water is going to be disastrous.

You also need a certain amount of alkalinity which comes from bicarbonate like sodium, calcium, potassium. It's the balance between the alkalinity and Mg that is important. The ratios between the various minerals are what define the brew taste.

There is a lot of debate about what ratios etc are ideal. Ideal encompasses a fairly wide range of preferences.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Step21 said:


> So trying to brew without Mg in your water is going to be disastrous.


This is not true in my experience, you can brew great tasting coffee without magnesium.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

YerbaMate170 said:


> I have been purchasing bottled water from a local "ethnic supermarket" for a while now, not just because it's super cheap, but I actually really like the taste of it. Recently, I realised that it had no magnesium whatsoever in it, and a bit of research suggests this is because they remove magnesium from the water before bottling. Apparently they do this to sell the magnesium but I can't comment on the accuracy of this - perhaps they don't remove anything but this water is not bottled in the UK so perhaps regulations etc differ elsewhere... I don't know enough about this to comment.
> 
> Anyway, today I had ran out and made some filter coffee with Buxton instead - had a look at the label beforehand and noticed it contains 24mg/l of magnesium, according to the label. Obviously I can't be sure it's the Magnesium, but there was a very noticeable change in taste.
> 
> I haven't read many threads on here about water, so perhaps this is all known knowledge, but just thought I'd share. Also, Rave's Colombia Suarez is surprisingly tasty brewed - I'd bought it for espresso mainly.


There are a couple of really great threads on water on this forum so I would certainly give the search button a try. The water for coffee book is an interesting read but I think you will find more practical info on here.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Xpenno said:


> This is not true in my experience, you can brew great tasting coffee without magnesium.


What combination of minerals have you used to achieve this? Not seen any discussion of magnesium free water around coffee. No doubt you can achieve the required hardness without magnesium. This must be RO water plus added chemicals rather than any naturally occuring water?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> What combination of minerals have you used to achieve this? Not seen any discussion of magnesium free water around coffee. No doubt you can achieve the required hardness without magnesium. This must be RO water plus added chemicals rather than any naturally occuring water?


Historically, in coffee discussions, the total hardness of water didn't differentiate between calcium & magnesium.

Not sure that there is a "required hardness" anything from 25ppm up works for brewed. I have done a couple of runs of tests and I don't get any significant change in measurable extraction whatever water I use from Deeside & Ashbeck, up to Strathmore, Hildon, Highland Spring (normal water). The flavour changes, of course, but that's a question of preference.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Maybe it's useful for me to post a pic of the label for the water I've been using - I have gotten quite tasty coffee from it, to the extent that I never considered switching til I realised the low magnesium (and now calcium) amount:


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Historically, in coffee discussions, the total hardness of water didn't differentiate between calcium & magnesium.
> 
> Not sure that there is a "required hardness" anything from 25ppm up works for brewed. I have done a couple of runs of tests and I don't get any significant change in measurable extraction whatever water I use from Deeside & Ashbeck, up to Strathmore, Hildon, Highland Spring (normal water). The flavour changes, of course, but that's a question of preference.


Ok. The word I should have used is recommended.

Have you done any tests with regard to the time of the extraction. I have read that higher magnesium levels extract quicker than lower?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

YerbaMate170 said:


> Maybe it's useful for me to post a pic of the label for the water I've been using - I have gotten quite tasty coffee from it, to the extent that I never considered switching til I realised the low magnesium (and now calcium) amount:
> 
> View attachment 27656


Thats very soft water. What is it?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Ok. The word I should have used is recommended.
> 
> Have you done any tests with regard to the time of the extraction. I have read that higher magnesium levels extract quicker than lower?


Same inputs - 13.5g dose, 225g water (+/-1g), 196g bev. (+/-1g), 30s bloom, 25g every 15sec, last test (10 brews, 5 different waters - Hildon has 50x the calcium as it does magnesium, as per label) gave +/- 0.26%EY StDev. I'd expect to stay within +/-0.45%EY StDev at the outside for 10 brews of the same coffee with the same water.

EDIT: Fastest brew was 2:48 total, 19.36%EY with 1 part Highland Spring: 3 parts WE (5.9mg/L Mg as per bottle label). Highest extraction was with Hildon (1.7mg/L Mg as per bottle label) 20.06%EY in 2:59. StDev on brew time was +/-4sec.

Oops! - 9 brews total, not 10.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Step21 said:


> Thats very soft water. What is it?


It's a Turkish water called Hamidiye, quite a few Turkish waters seem to be lacking in the Mag and Cal department, I've now realised.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Step21 said:


> What combination of minerals have you used to achieve this? Not seen any discussion of magnesium free water around coffee. No doubt you can achieve the required hardness without magnesium. This must be RO water plus added chemicals rather than any naturally occuring water?


To achieve great tasting coffee??

I've used all sorts of different waters. My favourite being water made from RO water with dissolved CaCO3 and a touch of sea salt.

I've only ever tasted good coffee made with lots of Mg when high hardness water is passed through an exchanger resin to replace Ca with Mg. Water made with Mg/Ca Cl/So4 salts is not good imho.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Xpenno said:


> To achieve great tasting coffee??
> 
> I've used all sorts of different waters. My favourite being water made from RO water with dissolved CaCO3 and a touch of sea salt.
> 
> I've only ever tasted good coffee made with lots of Mg when high hardness water is passed through an exchanger resin to replace Ca with Mg. Water made with Mg/Ca Cl/So4 salts is not good imho.


So there is no Mg in your water at all or are you passing the Calcium rich water through something like a BWT Mg+ filter to get Mg into the water via ion exchange?


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## chanstheorem (Aug 9, 2016)

@Xpenno When we last communicated, you mentioned that you moved on from using an ion exchange resin and instead were adding MgSO4 and CaCl2 to your mixture of R.O. water, CaCO3 and NaCl. Have you gone back to your original method? I must say, I've been really pleased with the results I'm getting from using the latter method.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Step21 said:


> So there is no Mg in your water at all or are you passing the Calcium rich water through something like a BWT Mg+ filter to get Mg into the water via ion exchange?


There was no Mg in that water. I got bored of continually messing so am now using Volvic which does have some Mg in it. I've gone form tinkering with coffee back to enjoying the stuff


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Don't blame you Spence. I learnt a lot reading your other water threads, started messing about with mixing WE and Volvic, then realised it was just easier to get a job lot of volvic from Sainsburys once in a while, fill the cupboard with the stuff, (and the machine obvs!) and just "drink more worry less".


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> There was no Mg in that water. I got bored of continually messing so am now using Volvic which does have some Mg in it. I've gone form tinkering with coffee back to enjoying the stuff


Volvic is pretty good. That SPECIAL water that you made was amazing though.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Xpenno said:


> There was no Mg in that water. I got bored of continually messing so am now using Volvic which does have some Mg in it. I've gone form tinkering with coffee back to enjoying the stuff


Full circle!

Did you ever experiment with magnesium carbonate in the same way as calcium carbonate by adding CO2 to make magnesium bicarbonate?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

do I want to open pandora's box and start playing with water....?

I'm currently on 50/50 WE/Volvic which is pretty nice and not too much faff (particually when I'm not too fussy on it being 50/50 60/40 40/60!).

what I would have a go at though is some other botted water that just needed a few gramms of something adding. would think that's less faff than blending. anyone found any option that works?


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## thesmileyone (Sep 27, 2016)

I have a dog.

He has some kind of colitis and he will only eat pure food and will only drink fresh water. I don't know if this is normal but he won't consume anything with impurities in it, all very strange. He will drink fresh tap water here in the NW but wouldn't touch it in the SW.

He won't touch Volvic. Nada. Not one bit. But he will drink the Welsh stuff that is for sale in Asda etc here. I don't know if placebo but I find a lot of water like "Smart Water" by Nestle tastes rank...it seems the more marketing guff on the bottle the worst it tastes. He will drink Evian and Buxton. When we are out and been for a big walk it means if I forget to think ahead I can add 30 miles to my journey trying to find him water he will actually drink.

So worth it though >









I recommend everyone take a ZMA pill once a day. This is Zinc 30mg, ZMA formula 150mg (a carrier to get it into your body more efficiently), magnesium citrate 180mg, Vitamin b6 20mg, Vitamin C 120mg. 2 for men, 1 for women.

I have split tested it properly and it makes my hair grow faster, sperm quantity larger, sleep better. Of course it doesn't make things "better or faster" it just reveals that I don't have enough of it...like most of the population sadly.

£2 gets you 120 of them. https://www.amazon.co.uk/1ne-Nutrition-Nighttime-Testosterone-Magnesium/dp/B00O7VPEQI/ I personally take those exact ones.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

seems the spam bot was mid edit when I replied - post deleted


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

thesmileyone said:


> I have a dog.
> 
> He has some kind of colitis and he will only eat pure food and will only drink fresh water. I don't know if this is normal but he won't consume anything with impurities in it, all very strange. He will drink fresh tap water here in the NW but wouldn't touch it in the SW.
> 
> ...


The water I like to drink is not the same water that makes great tasting coffee. All tap water has "impurities", Evian & Buxton are hard waters, Evian is as hard as a lot of SE UK tap water...did your dog double blind test these  . Smart water is remineralised distilled water, if distilled water is made for human consumption then lots of countries have guidelines as to what & how much minerals should be added for health reasons.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I have at least 3 water preferences. One each for coffee, tea and drinking.

Smart water I use only as a mixer with other bottled water to make coffee. Not as a drink. I prefer tap water filtered via a BWT Mg+ for tea and general use and a hard bicarbonate water for drinking like Badoit.

Sounds like pooch likes his bicarbonates!

There are several countries that require to desalinize and distill sea water and then remineralise to make drinking water. There must be WHO guidelines on what minerals and how much they add. So it might be clever marketing that sells it here but globally it is important.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Full circle!
> 
> Did you ever experiment with magnesium carbonate in the same way as calcium carbonate by adding CO2 to make magnesium bicarbonate?


I did, it's more soluble and less of a pain (I.E. settles clear more quickly) than CaCO3 when using the Soda Stream method. Didn't draw any taste conclusion.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Xpenno said:


> I did, it's more soluble and less of a pain (I.E. settles clear more quickly) than CaCO3 when using the Soda Stream method. Didn't draw any taste conclusion.


You mean neither better nor worse?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Step21 said:


> You mean neither better nor worse?


Just didn't make enough, there was a reason why I didn't follow it up, maybe the ratio of hardness to alkalinity didn't work or something. Can't remember.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Gave you the runs?!


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