# Sage DB problem



## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

Hi, I'm suffering long time problem (from December) regarding my Sage DB just over 2y old. Used occasionally (3-4 cups a day) by one person only, descaled regulary (living in very hard water area). Been serviced ( through Sage customer care) 3 times since December without success. Valve and seals changed. I got DB back around 8 days ago, and until yesterday it was working ok. Can anyone maybe point me in the right direction what could be the problem with the machine? Thank you in advance. ?

Here are 2 video clips:


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Looks like the volumetric buttons have somehow changed their values. Does the same thing happen with. The single button


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

Unfortunately yes it does. Cannot even overide pre-infusion any more. I've noticed that if machine is on standby for 2h or more it even get worse. I'm disappointed that Sage engineers couldn't fix it . Every time I got DB back, it's logged as "fixed", but it clearly wasn't fixed.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

have you tried ringing Sage nd politely saying that you do not buy something costing over £1000 and expect it to fail just out of warranty, especially after their service company has fixed it allegedly. Where did you buy it from?


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

I've tried to ring them today and non of theirs Customer Service numbers are working. Due to "system changes" they cannot take any calls at the moment, only emails. Great......! NOT...... They are implementing "system changes" since December. I tried to order naked portafilter in December from their website, and I was told they are implementing "system changes", hence not being able to order online. At least, phones were working then.... Anyway, I have dropped them email and will wait couple of days for reply.


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

Update and happy ending: after finaly having luck and getting hold of one of the customer service advisors, I was able to express my worry about DB constant failing to produce anything more than a weird noise. Customer service advisor I spoke to was very polite and understandable (not all of them are polite, I must say), and offered full support in finding the best solution for me. Because the problems started while DB was still in warranty period, they were still obliged and willing to fix it for free (because previous repairs weren't successful). They have sent an engineer (time and day suited me) to come and have another look at coffee machine and see if it can be fixed at all. After spending nearly 2h checking every connection on DB, the diagnosis was "pump failure". Luckily, he did have spare pump and changed it with a great success!!! It is nearly 3 weeks since repair has been done, and my DB is working flawlessly again!!! I do really hope it will stay this way for long, long time....


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## Deejaysuave (Jan 26, 2015)

Good news! Loving mine


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

Same here! I even got another White Glove Service and some nice Brasilian coffee beans to try from Sage repair team. Happy days....


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## Deansie26 (Jan 16, 2017)

Do you use bottled water?


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

Yes I do. I live in very hard water area (200-300+ mg/l of



CaCO3)
​
and bottled water is "must" for me. I use Asda Eden Falls, Aqua Pura still natural water or Waitrose essential (depends where I do my weekly shopping). I do not mix waters as some forumees suggest in their posts. I hope it is good enough to keep my DB running for long time..


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## Richard_severn (May 3, 2017)

So I would go back to your place of purchase, speak to them. They NEED to sort out your machine, they don't have a choice on this. You bought a several hundred pound machine and it only lasted 2 and a bit years its expected lifetime is a lot longer. Contact sage or a retailer and ask them how long the machine should last(pretend you are a customer) say you are concerned about spending several hundred on a machine for it to break just outside the warranty period, they will most doubt tell you it will last several years longer and its a great buy.

Sadly the purchase of this comes under the old sales of goods act and not the new one. (New one specifies one attempted repair after that you have to receive money back, replacement unit, or partial refund). If you go back to the place of purchase, be nice, say you purchased ...machine on...date, it's not working as it should, you have sent it off several times for repair and they are unable to actually fix the problem. You would like them to arrange a repair on the unit or replace the unit as per the sales of goods act. If the get funny about it say that's fine you will speak to the ombudsman for more advice and if needed go via the small claims courts, also ask if they are a member of any alternative resolution pathways. The usual alternate resolution pathways cost the business a fair bit of money the one we are with is £80 per complaint they "deal with" and if by them receiving it and doing nothing we don't sort the issue for the cusotmer they bill us £300 to even get involved, buisnesses want to avoid this. If its from a big retailer, just ask to speak to the manager, they usualy sort it out as they dont want to lose a customer, have the store reflected in a bad light. Do not lose your cool, shout, or use derogatary comments, also dont lie about anything to do with it. They are so many times more likely to replace/help you if you are nice!

While this isnt the stores fault its down to Sage the retailer is the one that sold you the item and you have the contract with.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Glad to see that this has been resolved by Sage. I agree with most of what @Richard_severn has said above, except for the bit where he says the retailer didn't have a choice on this. If it was outside of warranty, they could certainly have declined to deal and then it's either a case of sucking it up or making a small claim. All of the remedies under Part VA (5A) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (dealing with pre-October 2015 contracts) would have required you to prove the lack of conformity with the contract because it was outside the six-month period of a rebuttal presumption of defect. It is right to say that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 would apply to any contract from 1st October 2015 onwards.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Final point and hijack - I would always recommend going back to the retailer and not the manufacturer for the reasons mentioned by Richard: the contract is with them and the rights under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (or its predecessor) are against the retailer. Sage etc are excellent when sorting things out, but you can't demand a refund from them under CRA2015 if it all goes wrong.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

This reflects really badly on Sage's customer service. Sometimes things don't work as they should but Sage should have replaced the machine, not keep trying to fix it. It's just bad business on their part and the damage incidents like this do to their reputation are far outweighed by the cost of replacing your machine and ensuring you're a happy customer. I certainly would think twice about buying a Sage product after reading the way they handled this.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

I think that's unfair. There was a machine which, except for the replaced part, worked fine. Perfectly appropriate and proportionate to replace that one part. It would have been disproportionate to expect a brand new machine.

They certainly went beyond the mandatory legal requirements, and it sounds like they met expectations (eventually) on the repair. A successful result.


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

Thank you very much for your advice. I wasn't aware that there is new sales of goods act! I shall certainly remember it when buying any other goods in the future. DB is sorted now. Pump failed, but repair team repeatedly failed to diagnose correctly, and it was getting frustrating. Luckily, the lady who communicated with me on behalf Sage customer service was sooo nice and helpful. She fully understood my frustration and gave me reassurances that they will get to the bottom of the problem. And they did.... It has been 3 weeks since pump is changed, and it all good now...


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Glad to hear it - may there be many years of excellent coffee-making ahead!

(Final boring legal point for anybody who comes across this thread: the Sale of Goods Act 1979 will continue to apply in trader-to-business or consumer-to-consumer (flogging your stuff at a carboot, for example) sales, but the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies between trader and consumer.)


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

When I've started to experience problems with DB (December 2016), I have rang web retailer I bought machine from, and I made mistake: (didn't know my rights at the time) and followed their advice that they are not responsible for machine after 28 days of sale. They have told me that I have to contact Sage directly if having any issues with the machine after 28 days of buying machine, not the retailer. I'm happy with the repair outcome, but it could go either way: luckily for me it finished good, but I did ring Consumer Rights for advice and was told that it is up to Sage's "good will" whether they will fix machine free of charge outside warranty , or not, regardless when the problem occured (even if it is started before warranty expired). But usually, big companies like Sage repair process should carry 6 month warranty (at least), and I was advised to use it if necessary. It will be rather frustrating if I had to pay for repair which occurred in warranty period, but failed to be diagnosed properly. All I had changed before (vacuum valve, solenoid valve, valve pin, o rings) didn't fix initial problem. My personal opinion (I could be wrong), is that machine hasn't gone through extensive testing after replacing certain parts. They might pull couple of shots in rush, and signed it off as repaired...


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I'm not saying Sage acted illegally. They're trying to sell a high end consumer goods which retails at over £1k so someone having to spend months trying to get one to work and send it back to their repair team 3 times while still under warranty doesn't scream a company that cares about their customers. John Lewis don't offer no questions asked return policy out of the goodness of their hearts they also do it because it makes good business sense. Another example is Bella Barista, everyone on this forum seem to love them and recommend them because they provide great service. All I'm saying is if Sage want customer loyalty and repeat business this might not be the best way to go about it.


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## abvilejn (Feb 6, 2015)

I hope that my case is an isolated one....Haven't heard that anyone else complained about any serious issues yet, although I stumbled across video on YouTube with similar "noise" like my machine. Person was unahappy (hence posting it on YouTube) because was charged £150 for repair, and machine was not repaired.






Not the best advert for the company who's dealing with repairs I'm afraid.


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