# Advice needed £400 to spend on Grinder ??



## Dave Verdugo (Feb 10, 2019)

Hi

Looking to pay £400

Non Doser On Demand.

Web resreach overload now been looking at so many..

Eureka, M80 none E, Mcap, the list goes on

Never bought a grinder before but would like something nice to match a new machine coming soon.

Any ideas please ?

Thanks

Dave.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Hi and welcome









Sounds exciting - what is your new machine going going to be?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I agree with Mildred , sounds exciting


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## Dave Verdugo (Feb 10, 2019)

Thanks for the welcome, Rocket Appartamento I think.


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## buderim (Feb 7, 2019)

I am not a expert on grinders ( or anything else ) But I would recommend a doserless grinder with a adjustable timer , I find it makes it so much easier to get consistent shots .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dave Verdugo said:


> Hi
> 
> Looking to pay £400
> 
> ...


Are you prepared to but second hand? Check the sales thread on here for some grinders.

Do you have any space restrictions ?

Do you want to run the beans in the hopper or single dose ...

Do you want if just for espresso or to brewed as well.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

buderim said:


> I am not a expert on grinders ( or anything else ) But I would recommend a doserless grinder with a adjustable timer , I find it makes it so much easier to get consistent shots .


When people make comments like that I would like to see the info on that aspect as mentioned here - variation in the weight of the dose of grinds that come out

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?20257-The-new-DIP-DKS-65-On-Demand-Grinder-review-and-initial-thoughts

There are similar tests on some grinders on youtube. Maybe some grinders are better in this respect. I have one for instance that a youtube video shows dosing exactly 18g after it's been set to do that. No idea how many takes there were but wonder why mine shows more variation. Wasting stale grinds from yesterday first ting in the morning helps but maybe it doesn't because it could be several hours before the next time it's used. Or maybe I get some variation due to the beans I use.

It's not uncommon for people to both time and weigh the shot as it actually comes out. Nobody states exactly what they do but I guess that they work to a weight out and keep an eye on time and if that goes too many seconds out think about adjusting the grinder. One problem with that is that the weight of grinds will alter the time anyway. Even just 1/2g variation can make a difference on typical home machines. Personally from my own experience more latitude is acceptable than some people might say is essential but there are limits and one of the best controls is the weight of grinds used. Output can vary, there no need for it to be exact.

So many people finish up weighing beans in. Say they want 18g, they weigh 18g of beans and put them in an empty grinder and grind until they are all used up. Then they get all of the grinds out. One way of doing this is shown here - common mod to mazzers in particular as it's very easy to do






The brass flap is an interesting idea. Personally from experience weighing in on a Mazzer rather than close the flap as they do at the end I would spin the grinder up and puff again and then sweep a few more grinds out with a brush. That way exactly what went in will come out.







Did for me anyway. I didn't add a flap but did use a weight over the beans being ground.

Another mod is done on grinders with a doser - make them sweep grinds out more thoroughly. I've no details but it's referred to as a clean sweep mod.

I believe a number of people weigh beans into Eureka Mignons - difficult to use a brush in the way it can be used on machines that use a funnel rather than a chute so I have no idea how well they get on. A brush is likely to be needed.

So for that sort of use an M80 makes more sense.







Catch though that can apply to a number of grinders especially with stepped adjustment. There is always some play in the adjustment thread. The grinders are intended to be used with a hopper on so grinds that are left between the burrs on their way out take up that play. When these grinders are run until empty there aren't any grinds left to do that so the grind gets finer towards the end. One fix for that is to wrap ptfe tape around the thread to take out the play. Some people also do this when used with a hopper on. The "fault" is a pretty common one. Some makers arrange for something else to take out the play.

It doesn't make much sense using a large on off switch on a grinder for manual dosing hopper on. For a consistent dose the time needs to be held to a fraction of a second. It's not unusual for timed grinder to be set up for the bulk of a dose and a top up dose used several times to achieve some desired weight checking the weight with scales. On some brief presses of the button grind manually. Not easy to do but practice helps.

There is another alternative. I'm not pointing you there. I've bought one though. It goes by the name of Niche Zero. Here some one has taken note of the above and designed a grinder for weighing beans in. There are others but way more expensive. The Niche is I think circa £500 though and can take over a month to obtain. It too has it's compromise - the way the actual grinds have to be handled. You can find details of that on Youtube.

New grinder have a bit of a catch as well. Generally they wont work at their best until they have had several kg's of beans run through them. People often start by obtaining 1kg of cheap beans initially to help them on their way. When I have done this 1kg does help but by the time they have done 3 or 4 they are generally better mostly in respect to clumps.

Maybe some posts will follow such as my grinder X doses reliably to +/- Y grams. Or maybe people will comment about variations that they find acceptable. Curious thing about coffee - lots of complications are mentioned but none on what should be acceptable.

John

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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Maybe some posts will follow such as my grinder X doses reliably to +/- Y grams. Or maybe people will comment about variations that they find acceptable. Curious thing about coffee - lots of complications are mentioned but none on what should be acceptable.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Or maybe we will just yawn


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Or maybe we will just yawn


As usual a very helpful post.

John

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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ajohn said:


> As usual a very helpful post.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Some might think it more helpful than the previous post


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@ajohn

John, personally, I could not detect a difference in the taste of a drink with 0.50 gm difference in weight. if you can, hats off to you and I would be of the opinion (prove me wrong) that you are in the absolute minority here. This might explain why people like me are happy to grind on demand, and accept the output using the eye to determine the level in the basket. I make 2 drinks, drinkers and sinkers


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> @ajohn
> 
> John, personally, I could not detect a difference in the taste of a drink with 0.50 gm difference in weight. if you can, hats off to you and I would be of the opinion (prove me wrong) that you are in the absolute minority here. This might explain why people like me are happy to grind on demand, and accept the output using the eye to determine the level in the basket. I make 2 drinks, drinkers and sinkers


That's the sort of response that may help the OP but which grinders will do that reliably? The one in the review I linked to is unlikely to. The WLL review showing my Profitec dosing to x.0g may well do but not to the limits WLL show. It's also a pain to set a timer for a specific dose on any of them but a bit of practice helps. It's also possible to guestimate grind weight if they are in a nice fluffy pile but not so easy if they sink into the filter basket.

I've only made one sinker with beans I have used several times forgetting the first few months of owning a machine. Really stupid, 17g in a basket that should be using 13 to 14g in. I'm amazed the portafilter went on. Chisel tools can arf tamp. I can accept that weights in to 1/2g can work out. Past that I would wonder. I did use a single a lot and that would definitely need better. I now mostly use the 14g baskets and 18g for some beans. One bean if I buy it again is likely to finish up in the single.

Had another shot today that some would say had to be a sinker. I've been Niched for a couple of days and wondering what was going on. Fixed that after a look around and instead of getting low to mid 30g out I got 47. Result with this bean not as good as it can be but no signs of the many comments about over extraction on the web, in fact less of that after a fashion. With some beans it would have to be down the sink. This how I personally work - find out how much things can change before I notice. When I notice I change settings. In this case I ran on long enough to get my usual 30 odd out.

My last post really was ok you want to buy a grinder - there are a few things worth considering. I can't comment on the grinders mentioned as I haven't owned any of them. I believe you did have an M80E so could comment. I personally wouldn't touch the earlier mignon with a barge pole having seen photo's of the grinds that come out. Unfairly maybe as comparing with the one built into a BE. No idea what the new models are like. All I would say about the M80 is I doubt if I would choose it over the E version because without weighing in I think it would be difficult to control the amount that comes out. I also don't know how easy it is to modify for weighing in. The E is over budget at £478. Usual problem with grinders. I also mentioned that used can be a good idea as the burs will be run in - or maybe worn out in some cases. The grinder itself can be clapped out as well. Much can depends on where it was bought from.

Used grinders - height can come into that and different ways of using them. Lots of posts on here about these aspects.

John

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## RazorliteX (Mar 2, 2014)

Well, I've seen a few things in my time but a gloryhole on a grinder is something else.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

RazorliteX said:


> Well, I've seen a few things in my time but a gloryhole on a grinder is something else.


LOL It was new to me and confusing as often mentioned on here without any details. I have seen it mentioned on other forums and Ceado have taken on the idea on a stupidly expensive weighing in grinder.

It can have some advantages. For instance after a few doses what goes in comes out. Couple of uses of the puff and the brush plus another spin up of the grinder gets that surprisingly accurate. When I tried it I didn't like all of the bits of beans inside the lens hood and people reckon the grind gets messed up due to beans bouncing about so I added weight. This resulted in lot less clumping on an oily bean than I would get from the grinder with a hopper on. While fiddling about with the weight I had a shock - static I assume, so started touching the weight and the grinder while it was running. No clumping at all.

Maybe one catch. I was using a mazzer mini e and to use them like this the anti static grid has to be removed. The timer card developed a fault. I can't help wondering if that was down to static.

So if some one likes really well roasted 2nd crack monsoon malibar that really is coated in oil it may well be the best way to grind them. Niche manages too.








I'm trying to get my hands on an insulation tester for the mini but from the type of shock I had I don't think it was down to leakage from the mains.

Why did I try it - curiosity really but apart from the faffing about it can work rather well.

John

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## Dave Verdugo (Feb 10, 2019)

I would prefer new

No space issues

Single dose

Espresso mainly


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## mark8805 (Oct 17, 2014)

If only you could increase your budget by £100, you would then have enough for a Niche, I have one and me and everyone that I know that has a Niche are singing its praises, simple concept, beautiful design, what more could you want from a grinder.


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

If I was in your position I would save up the extra £100 and get a Niche. Buy once and buy right. A very capable grinder.


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## BobbyBarista (Feb 16, 2019)

Also interested to see what's recommended, as I'm doing something very similar.


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