# Grinder quality in Delonghi machines and strength mystery...



## fredphoesh

Hello guys,

I know some purists will poo-poo the idea of a bean to cup machine, but the convenience for me is a major advantage, so I got a ECAM23.450 a few weeks ago.

The coffee seems a bit weak, even if I set it for two cups, it still isnt particularly strong.

There is a dial to set the grinder, and the DeLonghi instruction book expresses the effects of adjusting the knob in an odd way, turn towards 1 for full bodied stronger coffee, and towards 7 if coffee is coming out too slowly (???) Presumably this means that towards 7 the coffee will not be ground as fine, and the water will pass through it more easily.

ODD thing, is that 7 seems stronger than 1, but neither is particularly strong.

Does anyone know if there is anything else that can be done, or is this a known shortcoming of this kind of machine? It seems to grind really quickly, which (in my limited experience and opinion) seems to mean it isnt grinding very fine... hence the weaker than expected coffee. BTW the machine is set to "Extra-Strong Taste".

Thanks,

Mark.


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## coffeechap

`the only way you get a semi drinkable shot from the delonghi B2C is to set the coffee as fine as you can and ONLY get the machine to pull an espresso, anything longer will be rubbish, however I know it is convenient but so much more can be had from a machiine grinder combo


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## gmason

As above, but in addition you will probably need to avoid the supermarkets and get hold of good quality beans and you will taste a perceptible difference. You mention weak cups of coffee. The machine makes espresso size measures as opposed to 'cups' You do actually have one of the better bean to cup machines and with a little bit of work, it does produce reasonable 'instant' coffee-based drinks.


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## fredphoesh

gmason said:


> As above, but in addition you will probably need to avoid the supermarkets and get hold of good quality beans and you will taste a perceptible difference. You mention weak cups of coffee. The machine makes espresso size measures as opposed to 'cups' You do actually have one of the better bean to cup machines and with a little bit of work, it does produce reasonable 'instant' coffee-based drinks.


Hi guys, thanks for the response.

It seems I will be going through a lot more coffee, needing at least two shots for a latte that tastes as good as a good coffee shop.

I have tried some expensive beans, nice but still need two shots to make it taste like a single shot latte.

Dang that is disappointing!! I doubt I would be able to get my money back, but it does seem really dishonest they would make a machine, go on about how good the grinder is, then deliver a mediocre cuppa!


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## xiuxiuejar

This is not a criticism, but I just don't see how an all in one machine can make an espresso which depends so much on the person making it - the grind, the tamp etc etc may change day to day depending on conditions. The only thing I see a B2C machine doing is putting far too much coffee into a type of brew head and passing hot water through it, more like an "fresh nespresso". I may be wrong, and if I am, please correct me as I have always believed if you spend so much on one of these machines you can actually get a nice bit of kit.


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## Mrboots2u

fredphoesh said:


> Hi guys, thanks for the response.
> 
> It seems I will be going through a lot more coffee, needing at least two shots for a latte that tastes as good as a good coffee shop.
> 
> I have tried some expensive beans, nice but still need two shots to make it taste like a single shot latte.
> 
> Dang that is disappointing!! I doubt I would be able to get my money back, but it does seem really dishonest they would make a machine, go on about how good the grinder is, then deliver a mediocre cuppa!


It's all comparative. To me a ,now ,a single shot latte from Starbucks or the like is undrinkable. Purely because I make good coffee at home,and seek out good shops when I have to buy when out. Starbucks effectively uses very expensive bean to cup machines and people lap up the stuff, coz they know, no better.

In comparison the bean2cup machine you have might match up against a bad barista at a chain. To be honest I have no idea , I've not used our machine ,I know it's cant produce the quality of drink I would now entertain paying for .

If you want great coffee ,then fresh beans, a grinder and a decent machine, some patience , andinvesting time to learn some skills and techniques is the way to go . It's not a push button solution , but as your finding , push button solutions don't deliver .


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## Daren

Fred

It may just be your beans. What are you using?

Have you tried any really dark roasted beans? The chains tend to use them - it may be the taste your looking for?


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## Charliej

Also a lot of the chains actually use a double shot in their lattes, how big a cup/mug are you trying to make?


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## Xpenno

Daren said:


> Fred
> 
> It may just be your beans. What are you using?
> 
> Have you tried any really dark roasted beans? The chains tend to use them - it may be the taste your looking for?


Agreed, I used to have a similar machine and using any beans from the supermarkets, even respectable brands, resulted in poor/weak coffee. If you are not already then order something fresh and set the grind as tight as you can and you should be able to make reasonable coffee.


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## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> Also a lot of the chains actually use a double shot in their lattes, how big a cup/mug are you trying to make?


If you have a large Americano at Costa I think it might even have three shots!


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## fredphoesh

Daren said:


> Fred
> 
> It may just be your beans. What are you using?
> 
> Have you tried any really dark roasted beans? The chains tend to use them - it may be the taste your looking for?


Hi guys,

Ok so the details are

I like a 250-300mm latte, but since I dont like it too milky, I prefer a long shot and half milk or soya milk, which I prefer taste-wise.

The coffee I love most is (you guys will probably puke) what I get at Patisserie Valerie in london, and that is Ille, I think. I have bought some more expensive than ille dark roast from a coffee shop near where I live, they use the same beans in their coffee, and it is great! I dont think these guys use two shots, just my machine the shot never looks inky black when coming out, just brown, turning pale quite soon... so I have to do a second shot.

Also, when I feel the granularity of the coffee once the machine spits out the used chunk of coffee, it isnt nearly as finely ground as I would do if I was using my crappy £25 grinder and stovetop espresso machine... which makes much stronger coffee, but is often a bit burnt due to stovetops heating the coffee after it has been made.

Tomorrow morning I will try grind some beans using our cheap grinder, put that in my BTC machine (It can take ground coffee too) and see how it deals with much finer grounds.

Thanks all for your input and comments. I wish I had asked questions here before buying!!!

Mark.


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## aaronb

You can do a LOT better than illy!

Have a look at the beans subforum, where there is a list of UK based roasters. Have a look at some of the recommendations in the forum and then order some freshly roasted beans. The supermarket beans and illy are roasted a long time ago, and although they may make a passable drink when the bag/tin is first opened they are a long way from fresh. You should get a much better shot from something freshly roasted.

Also, you really shouldn't pull anything through the machine bigger than a double espresso (about 60ml max). It sounds like you are running 150ml of water through the puck, which will produce a pretty damn horrible drink! I'd strongly recommend you to make a smaller drink with just one double shot and milk.


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## fredphoesh

aaronb said:


> You can do a LOT better than illy!


Hi aaron,

perhaps, though most of the most delicious cups of coffee I've had were at coffee shops that (seem to) use Illy... except the nearby coffee shop in my town which used to use Illy and gets some custom roast now, which is equally delicious. I will try find out where they get their coffee so I can try that too.

BTW I did try a separate grinder and use that to make my coffee this morning, but it wasnt better than what I have using the DeLonghi internal grinder... but then again the beans I have right now are sub-standard.

Thanks for the input guys,

Mark.


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## MWJB

fredphoesh said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Ok so the details are
> 
> I like a 250-300mm latte, but since I dont like it too milky, I prefer a long shot and half milk or soya milk, which I prefer taste-wise.
> 
> The coffee I love most is (you guys will probably puke) what I get at Patisserie Valerie in london, and that is Ille, I think. I have bought some more expensive than ille dark roast from a coffee shop near where I live, they use the same beans in their coffee, and it is great! I dont think these guys use two shots, just my machine the shot never looks inky black when coming out, just brown, turning pale quite soon... so I have to do a second shot.
> 
> Also, when I feel the granularity of the coffee once the machine spits out the used chunk of coffee, it isnt nearly as finely ground as I would do if I was using my crappy £25 grinder and stovetop espresso machine... which makes much stronger coffee, but is often a bit burnt due to stovetops heating the coffee after it has been made.
> 
> Tomorrow morning I will try grind some beans using our cheap grinder, put that in my BTC machine (It can take ground coffee too) and see how it deals with much finer grounds.
> 
> Thanks all for your input and comments. I wish I had asked questions here before buying!!!
> 
> Mark.


Hi Mark,

A 250-300g latte would normally need a double shot as a base. The coffee shop where you live can pull a double shot in one hit, rather than as 2 separate shots. I'm not familiar with your machine, but other info I have seen on the DeLohngis suggests the coffee dose (single) cannot always be adjusted, just the amount of water that is put through it. So, for your drink I'd pull 2 short espresso shots for the base.

Moka pots need not burn anything, pull it off the hob before, or at the first signs of steam appear from the centre pipe, after the stream turns honey coloured - don't leave it unattended once coffee is being issued.

A typical espresso (Italian/superauto/capsule type) will be around 30ml from ~7g dose (plus or minus) for a single. This should be about one and a half times, to twice the strength of a moka pot brew.

Regards, Mark.


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## fredphoesh

Hi Mark,

thanks for the info... Yeah I've set my machine to not do such long shots, and will do two per latte, also I'm getting better beans in the mail this week... Should do the trick, somewhat ;-)

Cheers, Mark

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2


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