# Classic 2015 v 2004



## ponderosa (Aug 23, 2020)

Hello,

I got into coffee over lockdown and recently picked up my first espresso machines. I picked up a 2015 classic on eBay for £100 or so but after it arrived I found a 2004 classic on Facebook for the same price so also picked it up. The newer model appears, superficially at least, in worst condition as the portafilter has a slight smell and some metallic copper is also visible in the outside. Furthermore, the paint on the clicky buttons has faded completely and it was quite dirty when I received it.

The 2004 model on the other hand could use a slight clean but all other parts look okay.

Which should I keep? Is there anyway to judge the internals of the machine without complete stripping the machine? Do I need to do the opv mod with the 2004 model? Anything else I should know?

Thanks for your help.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

ponderosa said:


> Hello,
> I got into coffee over lockdown and recently picked up my first espresso machines. I picked up a 2015 classic on eBay for £100 or so but after it arrived I found a 2004 classic on Facebook for the same price so also picked it up. The newer model appears, superficially at least, in worst condition as the portafilter has a slight smell and some metallic copper is also visible in the outside. Furthermore, the paint on the clicky buttons has faded completely and it was quite dirty when I received it.
> 
> The 2004 model on the other hand could use a slight clean but all other parts look okay.
> ...


No contest - keep the 2004, it's a much better machine inside and out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

I'll buy the 2004 if you go for the other one! 😀


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Uncletits said:


> I'll buy the 2004 if you go for the other one!


There's the difference - I bet we won't see many people say that they would buy the 2015 if he chooses the 2004 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

The 2015 is the better machine.

Far better boiler, great steaming and much easier to keep clean


----------



## ponderosa (Aug 23, 2020)

Blue_Cafe said:


> The 2015 is the better machine.
> Far better boiler, great steaming and much easier to keep clean


 What do you mean by easier to clean? If I am not mistaken I cannot backflush this model.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

🍿


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

ponderosa said:


> What do you mean by easier to clean? If I am not mistaken I cannot backflush this model.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


You forgot about "not being able to easily adjust the OPV to 9 bar on the 2015" as well...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

ponderosa said:


> What do you mean by easier to clean? If I am not mistaken I cannot backflush this model.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


 Ya, you don't need too.

You shouldn't backflush any GC tbh.


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

MrShades said:


> You forgot about "not being able to easily adjust the OPV to 9 bar on the 2015" as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Most are 9bar out of the box anyway (according to this forum at least).

Another bonus.


----------



## ponderosa (Aug 23, 2020)

MrShades said:


> You forgot about "not being able to easily adjust the OPV to 9 bar on the 2015" as well...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What is the procedure regarding the pre-2009 model? Most discussions I have found centre around the post-2009 classics. Is it safe to assume as these were built pre-pod it should be okay already? Apologies if this is a silly question, I have seen you post so many useful posts about the original classic and thought you may be a good person to ask 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Most are 9bar out of the box anyway (according to this forum at least).
> Another bonus.


Hahahahaha! These get better and better...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

MrShades said:


> Hahahahaha! These get better and better...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/30617-gaggia-2015-is-9-bar-not-15-sacrelidge-is-it-better-than-the-older-models/?do=embed


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I know about that post. I read it when it was first written... and it shows 8 bar 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

MrShades said:


> I know about that post. I read it when it was first written... and it shows 8 bar
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 8barg is 9bara

Anyway, I dgas.

To the OP. Try both. See which one you prefer or which one you think makes better coffee. Do your research on the 2004 before descaling it. Aluminium is sensitive to some products.

For the 2015, the SS boiler is left sensitive to chemical abuses.

If you are using it for steaming, test both side by side.

Here is a great video comparing the two:






For me, I prefer the lack of a 3way valve on the 2015. Its so much easier to keep the head clean and I've no need at all of chemicals or hacks. Its also quick to heat up.

By all accounts, the end product (espresso) is identical.

YMMV. Though


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Blue_Cafe said:


> 8barg is 9bara


That's correct - but it has little to do with the reading on that machine. As I said, it's showing the machine is set to 8 bar (9barg if you want) - which is obviously lower than 9 bar. It's also not what most other users found (most found it set to about 11.5-12bar, as with the current Classic - which is not huge surprise as it's the same valve).

Anyway, I'm bored of this - it's heading the same way as usual.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

MrShades said:


> That's correct - but it has little to do with the reading on that machine. As I said, it's showing the machine is set to 8 bar (9barg if you want) - which is obviously lower than 9 bar. It's also not what most other users found (most found it set to about 11.5-12bar, as with the current Classic - which is not huge surprise as it's the same valve).
> 
> Anyway, I'm bored of this - it's heading the same way as usual.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 You being wrong?

Agreed.

Let's stay on-topic. 👍


----------



## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Blue_Cafe said:


> The 2015 is the better machine.
> 
> Far better boiler, great steaming and much easier to keep clean


 Have you used both?


----------



## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

MartinB said:


> Have you used both?


Does even one other person agree with him?

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

MartinB said:


> Have you used both?


 Yes.


----------



## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

ponderosa said:


> Which should I keep?


 Without some photos it is hard to tell, but one sounds a lot more loved than the other. A badly maintained machine will not last 12 months from new.

I'd always take the 2004 as it one of the original Classics, *if it is in good condition* will keep its value.



ponderosa said:


> Is there anyway to judge the internals of the machine without complete stripping the machine?


 Not really, although any odour or taste is a bad sign on any machine. Flow rates and shower pattern can give you a feel for the degree of scaling, but nothing more revealing than looking.



ponderosa said:


> Do I need to do the opv mod with the 2004 model?


 If you are using an unpressurised basket, and have a capable grinder, the mod is worthwhile and easily reversible. There is a thread you can subscribe to and get a PF with a gauge in the "Pay it forward" sub-forum.



ponderosa said:


> What is the procedure regarding the pre-2009 model? Most discussions I have found centre around the post-2009 classics. Is it safe to assume as these were built pre-pod it should be okay already?


 Maybe done, hundreds have - but hundreds haven't. Procedure is simple, measure pressure with PF gauge maybe you are lucky. If a change needed power plug off, lid off, slip off a tube on the OPV, adjust (needs a small hex screwdriver), reverse steps and retest. 10 minute job.



ponderosa said:


> Anything else I should know?


 Probably, a few things you find.

It is a messy business espresso.

Learn how your machine works, it will require attention more often than most kitchen equipment.

You need to clean regularly and carefully, they do not clean themselves. This includes everything from the tank to the drip tray.

Hard water is a killer, good water is not expensive and reduces spending money on de-scaler.

Good luck.


----------



## phario (May 7, 2017)

ponderosa said:


> What is the procedure regarding the pre-2009 model? Most discussions I have found centre around the post-2009 classics. Is it safe to assume as these were built pre-pod it should be okay already? Apologies if this is a silly question, I have seen you post so many useful posts about the original classic and thought you may be a good person to ask
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 It's really unfortunate that almost all discussions these days about the new vs. old are derailed. I feel sorry for people like the OP who are coming in, and it's obvious there there is a divide in the forums on this issue.

Rather than get into it, why don't we do something useful? Can you post a picture of the interior of both machines?



ponderosa said:


> Which should I keep? Is there anyway to judge the internals of the machine without complete stripping the machine? Do I need to do the opv mod with the 2004 model? Anything else I should know?


 Honestly, I think it's a great idea to strip and disassemble both machines. It's infinitely easier when you have two in front of you to make comparisons or to notice little things.

In terms of judging which machine needs more servicing, it's important to take in account costs. For example, a leaking portafilter is not usually a huge deal. You should be replacing the gaskets anyways and it's a £5 job. On the other hand, a heavily corroded boiler might be £50 to replace for a new one. Another issue you should keep your eye on for the 2004 model is to examine the welds that's holding the base of the interior. These welds can be prone to failure (but you can often glue them with epoxy). Apart from the case, the most expensive item to replace is probably the grouphead.

By the way, does anybody know how common it is to burn out the element on the post-2015 Classics? The embedded heater design is the same as the Silvia, and for the Silvia, it is quite common for people to accidentally burn out their element.


----------



## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Element burn out happens. It's not as common in my (limited) experience as you suggest. Remember, everyone with an element not burned out isn't making a song and dance about that, only those who do have the problem need to talk about it.

I like the idea of stripping both down, giving them a good clean, new gaskets and a descale. Then you can try both and see which works best for you. And then when you sell the other, you can push up the price because of the work you did to them, and also keep the best bits for yourself


----------

