# GRAEF CM80 vs Breville Smart grinder



## newera (Feb 10, 2013)

Hi all,

I am really trying to find a good budget grinder... less than 200 euros to go with my Gaggia classic. I shortlisted these 2 which are both available from Amazon.de.

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B002P9CFCK/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0VFV0TRXR2Y7J47TCCJZ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375173&pf_rd_i=301128

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B005KOJW0A/ref=s9_simh_gw_p79_d0_i2?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0VFV0TRXR2Y7J47TCCJZ&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375173&pf_rd_i=301128

You will note that the Graef is 70 euros less than the Breville (which in Europe is called the Gastroback)

Is there someone who have any experience with these 2 grinder and can point me to which one is the best?


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

short answer: Neither of these grinders is good enough for espresso, they aren't well built enough and are too inconsistent.

You will do much better buying an Iberital MC2 or an Ascaso iMini which should be just about in budget for €200, although we don't know where in Europe you are to check! I know an Ibertial dealer and an Ascaso dealer in The Netherlands if it helps.


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## newera (Feb 10, 2013)

HI

Thank for the immediate reply. I thought that the Smart Grinder was quite good since it got very good reviews from Amazon.com and also from





 (Seattle coffee gear)

I think Amazon gets the Ascaso....

Thanks


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## newera (Feb 10, 2013)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ascaso-M-331UK-i-Mini-Coffee-Grinder/dp/B007FOQ07G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360531237&sr=8-2. Is this the Ascaso Mini???


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yep! But thats a UK version with our UK plug.

I'd recommend that or the Iberital MC2, loads of people on here have an Iberital with a Gaggia and have positive reviews.


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## newera (Feb 10, 2013)

Hi

The problem is where I can buy one and where they can delivery to my country







since I do not live in the UK.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you visit bellabarista.co.uk and look in the grinders section, you will see at the bottom of the page a pdf showing that they deal a lot with Europe. The result is that you do not pay VAT @ 20% on the price shown which is a big saving. Of course you may have to pay VAT at your end, but thats another question!


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## newera (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks for the site but unfortunately they do not have any grinder which is according to my budget.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Van Pommeren in Utrecht, NL sell the Iberital Challenge which i believe is the same as the MC2 (can somebody confirm?)

https://www.vanpommeren.nl/koffiemolens-voor-espresso-of-filterkoffie.html

It should be within your budget with postage included, and would have the EU plug. They're nice people who know their stuff and take customer service seriously.

I'm not convinced Bella Barista wouldn't charge you VAT, as you are in Europe buying from another European country you should be paying VAT in the country you buy the goods from.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Look to the bottom right on this link for. PDF explaining the vat position

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-grinders/coffee-grinders/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-white.html


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

It depends on whether you are in or outside the EU.

Inside the EU, you pay UK VAT.

Outside the EU, you can have the VAT deducted, but you may have to pay VAT and import duty when it enters your country.

AFAIK


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## newera (Feb 10, 2013)

Hi

Thanks for the information on the new Dutch site. I am trying to find a way how I can buy from Happydonkey by utilizing one of my relatives







.

BTW on their site it says that some of the grinder had some over tightening problems. Is that something I have to worry about....


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

newera said:


> Hi
> 
> Thanks for the information on the new Dutch site. I am trying to find a way how I can buy from Happydonkey by utilizing one of my relatives
> 
> ...


The over tightening thing is something people have done to the grinder i.e. tightened the grind so much that the burrs touch and damage each other its not a fault in the equipment but a user error.


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## Munkoli (Mar 24, 2013)

aaronb said:


> short answer: Neither of these grinders is good enough for espresso, they aren't well built enough and are too inconsistent.
> 
> You will do much better buying an Iberital MC2 or an Ascaso iMini.


Man, this is funny. In Australia the Breville is considered a giant killer which is often tauted as the best grinder under 500 bucks.

And then in Germany, on Kaffee-netz forums, the Lux burrset (which is in the ascaso and iberital you mentioned0 is poo pooed constantly. The Graef is considered a decent grinder there.

I think its clear that most people just start following along with the apparent expert opinions of those around them, (and in their own language). So if one person has a good experience on one forum then it spreads like wildfire and gets lauded as fact. A bit like what happened when some old men told stories by the fire about a mythical guy called Jesus and sooner or later it became established biblical fact and countries go to war over the exact details of the story.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Munkoli said:


> Man, this is funny. In Australia the Breville is considered a giant killer which is often tauted as the best grinder under 500 bucks.
> 
> And then in Germany, on Kaffee-netz forums, the Lux burrset (which is in the ascaso and iberital you mentioned0 is poo pooed constantly. The Graef is considered a decent grinder there.
> 
> I think its clear that most people just start following along with the apparent expert opinions of those around them, (and in their own language). So if one person has a good experience on one forum then it spreads like wildfire and gets lauded as fact. A bit like what happened when some old men told stories by the fire about a mythical guy called Jesus and sooner or later it became established biblical fact and countries go to war over the exact details of the story.


From what I heard there are different versions with different Burr's, I've certainly seen a reviews where somebody struggled to get decent espresso with one of these.

The MC2 has many many users on European forums who have success getting consistent espresso with it, it isn't just hearsay. Many on here have owned it and have first hand experience. Similarly with the Ascaso iMini I had one for a while and it is capable.

Neither is a great grinder and I wouldn't advise their use for anything above entry level machines, but I'd reserve the use of poo for the myriad of grinders about the £100 price range many people end up with that are totally useless at espresso.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I have received the UK model of the Gastroback - the Sage Smart Grinder - which I am reviewing this week. These reviews will be posted in the thread with the same name


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