# Classic 2019.Drip tray filling up after three cups



## Roy Smith (Jun 7, 2019)

Just recently my wife has been noticing that the coffee comes out much slower than normal and after about three cups the drip tray is full.Usually after three cups there is just a small amount of liquid in it.As this a newish machine to her she has no idea where to begin looking to rectify the problem.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Roy Smith said:


> Just recently my wife has been noticing that the coffee comes out much slower than normal and after about three cups the drip tray is full.Usually after three cups there is just a small amount of liquid in it.As this a newish machine to her she has no idea where to begin looking to rectify the problem.


 It's a problem with the design of some of the new Classics. They have an over-pressure valve (OPV) which is on top of the pump. Previous models of the Classic always had this valve located on the boiler, but the new version has changed.

Previously, excess water from this valve (which is good clean water) was rerouted back to the tank (sensible!). The new design (only on some machines, mainly in the EU and I believe they may have stopped doing this now) routes the (good clean water) into the drip tray.... which is totally stupid.

As the OPV pressure is set very high (around 12 bar) the problem that you are having is that water is finding high resistance in your pucks, and the pressure is increasing above it - which is forcing the ground coffee granules closer together, which is further increasing the resistance, and hence further increasing the pressure above, etc - and in a vicious circle (as the maximum pressure on a standard machine is around 12 bar) ultimately hardly anything will get through the puck as it's being squeezed with 12 bar of pressure.

The answer to both the correct routing of water back to the tank, and lowering of maximum pressure to 9 bar.... is to buy an OPV PLUS mod kit:

advertising link removed

(Full disclosure, it's my online store!)


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Roy Smith said:


> Just recently my wife has been noticing that the coffee comes out much slower than normal and after about three cups the drip tray is full.Usually after three cups there is just a small amount of liquid in it.As this a newish machine to her she has no idea where to begin looking to rectify the problem.


 If its recent, and nothing has changed on your side, then it could be something changing in the machine. This may be the inners furring up causing back pressure and dumping of water via the safety valve.

Make sure everything is clean and descaled, including the baskets and the portafilters and that the shower screen is cleaned as well.

To check, put a bowl under the empty group head and see how much flow you get in 30s. Do this before and after the clean and you should see a difference.

Be slow to change anything in the machine until you find the issue


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

The root cause of the issue is actually that the puck resistance is too great currently - and you are grinding too fine... or with too high a dose; and hence you don't have the perfect puck resistance to keep the extraction flowing at normal flow rates and the pressure down to sensible (8-10 bar levels).

Once you move outside of this "ideal" puck resistance range, and flow drops, and pressure starts to build behind the puck - then you have this vicious circle of the higher pressure squeezing the puck more, creating higher resistance and hence lower flow, and higher pressure again etc, - until the maximum 12 bar pressure is hit and your water dumps out of the OPV filling your drip tray.

At least with the OPV mod, the vicious circle is stopped at 9 bar (where puck resistance will be lower, and some espresso may flow) than at 12 bar (where puck resistance will be higher, and you might not get anything out).


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

MrShades said:


> The root cause of the issue is actually that the puck resistance is too great currently - and you are grinding too fine... or with too high a dose; and hence you don't have the perfect puck resistance to keep the extraction flowing at normal flow rates and the pressure down to sensible (8-10 bar levels).
> 
> Once you move outside of this "ideal" puck resistance range, and flow drops, and pressure starts to build behind the puck - then you have this vicious circle of the higher pressure squeezing the puck more, creating higher resistance and hence lower flow, and higher pressure again etc, - until the maximum 12 bar pressure is hit and your water dumps out of the OPV filling your drip tray.
> 
> At least with the OPV mod, the vicious circle is stopped at 9 bar (where puck resistance will be lower, and some espresso may flow) than at 12 bar (where puck resistance will be higher, and you might not get anything out).


 You need to find the cause of the change before you execute a correction.

Perhaps, inadvertently, and without knowing, Mrs Smith has started using the pressurised baskets whilst using the procedure (tamp and grind) for the non pressurised baskets. Perhaps the hard water has gunked up the ginnals. Perhaps Mrs Smith is actually using the pressurised baskets and the hole has become blocked. Perhaps the Grinder has been reset, Perhaps its different coffee.

Fannying around with the system pressure safety valve isn't going to cure that, she will still get dumping into the tray (perhaps even more so).

Don't forget, Perhaps Mrs Smith likes to use the pressurised baskets for ease. If you change the system pressure to dump to drain above 9bar, your pressurised baskets are going to misbehave.

Perhaps Mrs Smith likes to use the Pods, etc.

Let Mr Smith fix the fixables first....


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## Roy Smith (Jun 7, 2019)

The machine is in use daily for the last six monthsSame coffee,same settings.Its cleaned out every day and this morning an extra clean was done.We are in a soft water area and filtered water is used.Just ran the machine with no coffee or filter holder in place with no improvement.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Roy Smith said:


> The machine is in use daily for the last six monthsSame coffee,same settings.Its cleaned out every day and this morning an extra clean was done.We are in a soft water area and filtered water is used.Just ran the machine with no coffee or filter holder in place with no improvement.


 What is the setup you are using?

Grinder, coffee brand, basket type, amount, time for shot, etc?

What is the cleaning routine and does this specifically include degreasing and descaling?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Roy Smith said:


> The machine is in use daily for the last six monthsSame coffee,same settings.Its cleaned out every day and this morning an extra clean was done.We are in a soft water area and filtered water is used.Just ran the machine with no coffee or filter holder in place with no improvement.


 Do you backflush it as part of your cleaning routine?

When you say "no improvement" when you run with no coffee, no portafilter - is there still water coming out of the vent pipe and into the drip tray when you are doing this?


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