# Espresso measurements



## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

Hello,

Im not sure if I am getting confused with espresso measurements but I wanted to check with you fine people on here to see whats right.

If I have read correctly for a double espresso I whatever weight of grounds goes into the machine I want double the weight out in espresso. The most common weight ratio used on here seems to be 18g of ground beans into the machine and 36g of espresso out within 27-30 seconds.

Now heres where I am struggling a little. I recently bought one of those espresso measuring glasses you might have seen knocking around (link below to show you what I mean). The glass shows the top level is a 2oz double espresso. 2oz which is 60ml of espresso. However a 36g of espresso is not 2oz/60ml because 2oz is roughly 57-60g. So my question is what exactly am I making when I produce a 36g espresso? Is it in fact a double espresso and the glass is wrong? Or is it not actually a double espresso and I have mis read info on here?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concept-Art-xsg-espresso-ristretto-glass-y/dp/B00K4VFFYG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457198668&sr=8-1&keywords=espresso+measuring+glass


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

tl;dr The glass is wrong. You need digital pocket scales. They cost around a fiver on eBay/Amazon.

The brew ratio you're mentioning is a starting point that you can adjust according to taste.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

the usual starting point,is plus 60%, so10 gm dry weight, 16 gms of output over 25 to 30 seconds. There is no magic formula for this and it all comes down to taste. You can take 100% extraction if you want, as long as it tastes ok


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> the usual starting point,is plus 60%, so10 gm dry weight, 16 gms of output over 25 to 30 seconds. There is no magic formula for this and it all comes down to taste. You can take 100% extraction if you want, as long as it tastes ok


I think you're referring to 100% brew ratio (or 1:1), 100% extraction is something else and quite impossible with respect to coffee (there would be no grounds left in the PF after the shot, nor in the cup).


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Been there done that, don't get hung up over it, twice as much brewed out as weight in, use that and adjust to taste, I sometimes go slightly longer if the bean is too strong for me. It grind and distribution consistency that is key.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

MWJB said:


> (there would be no grounds left in the PF after the shot, nor in the cup).


ooooh, like one of those Ghost Poos .... where you know you have been, but when you look in the bowl .. its not there !


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Kyle T said:


> If I have read correctly for a double espresso I whatever weight of grounds goes into the machine I want double the weight out in espresso. The most common weight ratio used on here seems to be 18g of ground beans into the machine and 36g of espresso out within 27-30 seconds.
> 
> Now heres where I am struggling a little. I recently bought one of those espresso measuring glasses you might have seen knocking around . The glass shows the top level is a 2oz double espresso. 2oz which is 60ml of espresso. However a 36g of espresso is not 2oz/60ml because 2oz is roughly 57-60g. So my question is what exactly am I making when I produce a 36g espresso? Is it in fact a double espresso and the glass is wrong? Or is it not actually a double espresso and I have mis read info on here?


The blurb that comes with Sage machines also backs up the 30ml single and 60ml double, so does the glasses that I have seen.

I cant see why they would be considered wrong.

It is down to personal preference how short or long the individual likes their espresso.

I do see most people on here prefer the 1:2 ratio ,I personally prefer a 1:3 ratio which is bordering on what the glasses state as a double.

I would suggest for the majority of users the glasses are correct, for the few that like a shorter ratio they will consider that glasses wrong.

Sage blurb

You may find, as we did, that the default settings aren't quite right and don't dispense the right volume of coffee (around 30ml for a single and 60ml for a double). This is down to a range of factors including the grind, beans and tamp. However, to compensate, you can hit the programme button and set your own default one and two-cup pours.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-appliances/coffee-machines/1403459/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-barista-express-review


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Using g makes the ratio easier to convey to other people, given variability due to parallax error, meniscus & amount of crema produced. Also, many lined glasses are not well calibrated.

So, there's nothing wrong with a 30g single or a 60g double (or whatever ratio you want), using g ensures we're all talking about the same ratios.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

The "oz" on the glass probably refers to a (US) fluid oz, a measure of volume not mass. In addition, the equivalence of 1g and 1ml is for water, not espresso. Freshly prepared espresso is less dense than water, so a 36g shot can quite easily occupy a volume of 60ml. Otherwise I concur with the other replies - best to use weight not volume.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

One of this years dsol beans I had to make in a flat white cup as the espresso cups were too small to contain 36g of that bean ... It was over 2oz for sure !!!!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Using g makes the ratio easier to convey to other people, ... using g ensures we're all talking about the same ratios.


Shot glasses are a place to begin (to use a darts analogy, it'll get you on the board but your score could be anything) but to get to excellent espresso (getting exactly the darting score you want) you need a greater degree of aiming accuracy.

If you and I both have the same bean, and I get a shot that tastes out of this world, I can help you find the same shot by telling you: I used 17g coffee, pulled a 31g shot in 28s, using 93.5c water.

That's a much more accurate set of directions to help you find the espresso 'bullseye' for that coffee.

It gets even more accurate if I can give you an extraction yield % but that's a whole other game that you need a refractometer to play.

It's all a journey. Loads of us began with shot glasses, and wherever we get to there is always further to go. That's why this lark is so compelling I think.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I started with shot glasses and was still confused about whether one or both glasses should have 1oz in after 25 seconds, whether to measure at the top of the crema or the top of the dark liquid etc. Then I realised everyone else was weighing and it all became clear.


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## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

If you're gonna measure your beverage output volumetrically (eg, milliliters, fluid ounces, shot glasses, etc), why bother with dosing on a scale? Just say, "I used TWO SCOOPS of ground beans."

Another way of putting it is , "Shot glasses are for LOSERS."

No offense intended BTW; just making the point.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Forget volumetrics .... Get a grinder with a timer ... That way you can have 4.8 seconds of beans producing a 35second shot ... It's easier to have s ratio that way


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I go 350:1 (35 beans to 10% of a squeeze of the cow's udder). It's all about the ratio guys!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Weigh in then weigh out....."simples"!

Shot glasses for measurement really are 'old hat'


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

Tried the scales bit once. £5 ebay drug-dealer's special, caffeineo glass, 18g of coffee in the PF and off we go: brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... Scales hit 36g, right! So what does muggins do next? Hits the OFF button on the scales while the machine drones on, exclaims "shit!" in stentorian tones and, forgetting that thanks to the thickness of the scales the PF spouts are actually inside the glass, grabs the latter and removes it WITHOUT STOPPING THE POUR.

It's amazing how much coffee you can slop on those wee scales without destroying them.

Since then I squint at the level and when I like the look of it I hit the (correct!) switch. No problem.

Actually yes, there is a problem, or rather a conundrum. Why do they call it a double PF? The espresso I make with it is just enough for me.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Ha ha ha VC scale fail!

I worried that the feds were going to be knocking on my door after buying 'jewellery scales' and seeing 'herb grinders', bongs and other recreational paraphernalia "recommended for me" by ebay or amazon. They're only scales - not a bleeding crack pipe!

I nearly killed a pair by failing to realise they were too near to the back of the drip tray (E61 group exhaust valve). 36g - great - drop the lever down - power shower all over the weighing platform. D'oh! They were ok after a night in the airing cupboard amazingly.


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