# Chilled Espresso Cups



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Ever since I got my Révélation espresso cup, I've been keeping it in the fridge. It comes out directly before I pull my shot.

By the time I've knocked out my puck, wiped, flushed and put my scales back in place (30-60secs) the espresso is absolutely the perfect temperature to enjoy with full crema, no loss of evaporated flavours or hints of stewing. The variance in the time it takes me to drink my shot allows me to taste the same coffee slightly hotter or cooler over the course of a day.

It seems odd to me that no one else seems to do this.

There have been discussions about room temperature espresso:

http://www.jimseven.com/2010/09/24/room-temperature-espresso/

...and chilled portafilters:

http://community.baristahustle.com/t/chilled-portafilters/921 (not really a thing with bottomless?) and only one person in each thread has mentioned that it might be a good idea.

To me, this is the most logical way to taste espresso.

The only rule is that the espresso needs to be cool enough not to burn your mouth. Everything else is down to the taste so I defy anyone to say they prefer a slowly cooled espresso from a preheated espresso cup!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Matt perger was pulling coffee shots into chilled cups 2013 ish. I never used to pre heat my cups , I went through a phase of chilling em , but like a lot of things got bored with the faff. Ended up putting espresso into non heated , large mouthed cups to cool it quicker ( @ Tim wendleboe ) Your right tho, a lot of coffee is better at lower temp. I don't pre heat my cups for chemex or v60 or siphon . Once extracted I try and get the temp down quick , sometimes I'll pour into another vessel to get the heat done and the flavours up.

Me thinks old robusta Italian espresso tasted better popping not with sugar as left to cool you might get hit by some of those robustary flavours ....


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Good ol' Matt Perger. Still wonder why this never caught on though.

There's no real faff with keeping a cup in the fridge. Only realistic for home use though I guess.

If anyone's not tried this I highly recommend it!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Try freezing beans, taking from freezer, grinding immediately and pouring your shot......


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

You'd be dabbling with some dangerous variables there (grind quality of frozen beans? Decreased brew temp?).

Also not sure it would have the same desired effect which is to be able to drink the shot asap after it's been pulled.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Milanski said:


> You'd be dabbling with some dangerous variables there (grind quality of frozen beans? Decreased brew temp?).
> 
> Also not sure it would have the same desired effect which is to be able to drink the shot asap after it's been pulled.


sorry, has no effect on temp/......might o0n taste though!


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I've pulled beans straight from the freezer and ground them, when they're ground they aren't frozen anymore. Didn't seam to affect the coffee in any way (it went straight into a flat white).


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Milanski said:


> You'd be dabbling with some dangerous variables there (grind quality of frozen beans? Decreased brew temp?).
> 
> Also not sure it would have the same desired effect which is to be able to drink the shot asap after it's been pulled.


The grinding from frozen thing is centred around the grind quality / particle distribution-shape-blah blah . You're grinding something which is more likely to shatter because frozen beans are less pliable . Anecdotal evidence includes ''espresso is tasting amazing'' ''I've not noticed any difference'' ''you don't need to grind as fine / course / blah blah''

Try it for yourself and see what you think


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I have no real interest in working out if frozen beans taste any different to room temp beans, as I don't believe this will produce a chilled espresso as quickly as a chilled cup, but thanks for the suggestion.

My aim to drink a freshly ground and poured espresso as quickly after extraction as possible is mainly so that I can return to work asap but in my head I have it that it tastes better than a naturally cooled espresso from a warmed cup.

The only real test worth doing would be to pour two shots, one into a warmed and one into a chilled cup.

I may try this tomorrow if I feel dedicated enough...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

...or 3 shots, one warmed, one chilled, one ambient big cup.

...or 4 shots, one over ice...no, no, that would need to be 8 shots....


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

Mr Milanski. I'm assuming that you don't have the portafilter/handle resting in the group staying warm before the shot?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I do but I use a bottomless pf, so a chilled (or even room temp?) pf would only serve to bring the temp of the group head down during extraction but have little to no effect on the temp of the resultant espresso.

Please understand however, that I am a theorist and have little inclination to actually carry out tests to prove my prattling


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## jonathanhook (Apr 25, 2015)

I'm happy to read this post. I've always felt a little guilty of going against the orthodoxy of warming cups, in search of a tasty espresso when in a morning rush! I'll have to give cooled cups a try.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Okay. So I just did a comparative test of pre-warmed versus chilled espresso cups.

Parameters were as similar as possible for both shots:

18.5g in

Same tamp pressure (rim of tamper level with basket)

7 seconds preinfusion (using an L1)

36g out (I got distracted by my schnuffling pug but I usually aim for 30g out)

Both espressos were drunk at 50 degrees Celsius exactly.

I drank the chilled espresso first and although a lot longer than my usual dose, I tasted the same notes and flavours as I have been enjoying in the past few days of drinking this same blend.

I was fully prepared to taste the exact same drink as I put the pre-warmed cup to my lips but to my amazement I got noticeably more bitter notes and a drink more akin to an Italian style espresso!

Granted, this is with a fairly darkish/medium blend (Signature from Rave - an hangover from Xmas) but the difference was quite pronounced.

I will repeat this test tomorrow and try to log the extraction time also, which I failed to do this time round.

Would be interested to hear from anyone else who's tried this....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Milanski said:


> I drank the chilled espresso first and although a lot longer than my usual *dose*,


Yield


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Yield


...and there I was trying to be all scientific like


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Milanski said:


> ...and there I was trying to be all scientific like


Im being a d1ck today sorry


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Yield


No need to encourage submissive behaviour!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Im being a d1ck today sorry


Not at all, you did end with a smiley so all


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've not tried it, but might give it a go at the weekend.

I'm a bit skeptical TBH but then again I've been wrong about a lot of these kind of things till I've tried them.

I'm not a fan of Signature as a straight espresso, I've always found it goes better with milk.

Have you tried this with other beans?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I've been running cups under the cold tap before the pull, the water is bloody freezing at the moment!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Have you tried this with other beans?


No. But I've been using chilled cups for a while now and I've got through lots of different coffees in that time. Never a hint of bitterness.

The bitterness of the warmed cup shot (henceforth known as WCS) might be down to the blend but I also noticed the flavour was not so complex and tasty as the CCS (chilled cup shot).

I've only tried this test once so will try again a bit later...

Maybe everyone else so inclined could report their parameters and results here...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Does this invalidate the need for the warming tray on the coffee machine, so we can now get rid of the protective layer and keep it nice and shiny?

I will try this in the afternoon. Considering I always leave my espresso to cool down for a few minutes, this seems to be the logical thing to do!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Shine away brother!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Ok, test number 2.

18.5g in

Equal tamps

32g out in 30s (for WCS) and 32s (CCS)

Both drunk at 52 degrees Celsius.

CCS was not on par with previous shots I've enjoyed with this blend, perhaps the roast is past it's optimal point (roasted 15/12). But still pretty tasty with chocolate and spices.

WCS definitely tasted quite different to CCS, not necessarily bad, but def different. The flavour was more muted (less spice) and more roasty/stewed, again more akin to an Italian espresso.

I'm quite enjoying the hit of two doubles in a row so I think I'll keep this test regime up for a bit!

Running out of coffee now so I'd better get another order in...

I'd be very interested to know other people's findings so please feel free to participate!


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