# Kaffelogic Nano 7



## Polly

For those that have taken the plunge and imported a Nano 7 from NZ, it is heartening to hear that someone came second in the Coffee Snob's Golden Bean Home Roasters Competition, Espresso Class, using the Ninja profile as supplied with the machine.

The competitor was Mark - "bruiserbbq" as you will see in the results sheet below.

https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-news/52990-home-coffee-roaster-competition-2019-a.html#post664702


----------



## mctrials23

Shame there isn't an importer of these as they do sound like an interesting product. I would love to roast my own beans but the information on lower end roasters is so variable. Some claim to get amazing results from the Gene Cafe and others seem to really struggle.


----------



## Polly

mctrials23 said:


> Shame there isn't an importer of these as they do sound like an interesting product.


 These days importing is easy for private users. Just know you will be taken for 'import duty' at +20% on the NZ/Au purchase price. Shipping for mine was around £50. NZ and Oz suppliers here https://kaffelogic.com/index.php/home/buy-now

As for the Gene - without any process control - it really must be useless. I'm fussing over power inputs of a few percent to get my Yirgacheffe even better. There is no way on this earth a Gene could get close to following a profile the way the Kaffelogic does. I fail to understand the Gene's popularity.


----------



## Step21

Polly said:


> These days importing is easy for private users. Just know you will be taken for 'import duty' at +20% on the NZ/Au purchase price. Shipping for mine was around £50. NZ and Oz suppliers here https://kaffelogic.com/index.php/home/buy-now
> 
> As for the Gene - without any process control - it really must be useless. I'm fussing over power inputs of a few percent to get my Yirgacheffe even better. There is no way on this earth a Gene could get close to following a profile the way the Kaffelogic does. I fail to understand the Gene's popularity.


 From the figures available the overall cost of one of these is approx £800, £625 + 20% + delivery.

That's twice the price of a Gene Cafe which has twice the capacity. AFAIK many users are happy with the roasts they get from it. Perhaps that explains their popularity?


----------



## Kaffelogic

Kaffelogic should be available in UK stores sometime in 2020. In the meantime they can indeed to purchased direct from NZ being the best bet. An email to the company will steer you in the right direction of a retailer who is set up to export.

And Kaffelogic is chalk and cheese when compared with Gene Cafe, a more direct comparison is with Ikawa but at a fraction of the price. Kaffelogic is a true plug and play option which opens the world of in home coffee roasting up to novices and professional alike.


----------



## catpuccino

John Robson said:


> Kaffelogic should be available in UK stores sometime in 2020. In the meantime they can indeed to purchased direct from NZ being the best bet. An email to the company will steer you in the right direction of a retailer who is set up to export.
> 
> And Kaffelogic is chalk and cheese when compared with Gene Cafe, a more direct comparison is with Ikawa but at a fraction of the price. Kaffelogic is a true plug and play option which opens the world of in home coffee roasting up to novices and professional alike.


 John I suspect you might know a thing or two about Kaffelogic ?


----------



## Step21

John Robson said:


> Kaffelogic should be available in UK stores sometime in 2020. In the meantime they can indeed to purchased direct from NZ being the best bet. An email to the company will steer you in the right direction of a retailer who is set up to export.
> 
> And Kaffelogic is chalk and cheese when compared with Gene Cafe, a more direct comparison is with Ikawa but at a fraction of the price. Kaffelogic is a true plug and play option which opens the world of in home coffee roasting up to novices and professional alike.


 Depends how you define chalk and cheese and fractions.

It's twice the price of a Gene Cafe so there would be an expectation that it was better. Still not sure why there is a need to diss the Gene Cafe.

An Ikawa Home would be more expensive - currently around £1300 though I suspect that you could negotiate a decent discount. Though the odd used one is beginning to appear for similar price to the Kaffelogic. Based in the UK, support is easily available for any back to base problems. Outstanding build quality.

Does the Kaffelogic have any plastic? How would it be fixed if there was a hardware problem?


----------



## ashcroc

Step21 said:


> Depends how you define chalk and cheese and fractions.
> It's twice the price of a Gene Cafe so there would be an expectation that it was better. Still not sure why there is a need to diss the Gene Cafe.


Maybe because he's not the director - marketing for the Gene Cafe?


----------



## MildredM

John Robson said:


> Kaffelogic should be available in UK stores sometime in 2020. In the meantime they can indeed to purchased direct from NZ being the best bet. An email to the company will steer you in the right direction of a retailer who is set up to export.
> 
> And Kaffelogic is chalk and cheese when compared with Gene Cafe, a more direct comparison is with Ikawa but at a fraction of the price. Kaffelogic is a true plug and play option which opens the world of in home coffee roasting up to novices and professional alike.


 For the sake if transparency maybe it would be great if you started a thread, introduced yourself and your company and your roaster. I am sure there would be some interest and it would be somewhere forum members could discuss and ask questions


----------



## Kaffelogic

Thanks MildredM, and yes, I will indeed start a thread around Kaffelogic in the very near future. I may have unintentionally pushed the boundaries of this forum with my earlier comments as far as directly promoting the product, so many apologies to those members. I have actually tried to remove my post but unsure how to do this.... ?

In the meantime I am happy to answer any direct questions about Kaffelogic that members may have, if this is allowed.

Regards from New Zealand.


----------



## Polly

I started this thread and my only connection with Kaffelogic is that I am a happy customer. I fail to see any reason to push back against a stellar product that is now winning prizes for its users.

I visit NZ for family reasons whenever possible and noticed Kaffelogic on the NZ version of a Kickstarter style website and became a backer. Kaffelogic started in the same way the Niche Zero Grinder started in the UK. Niche has grown to be a well respected product and I am sure the Kaffelogic Nano 7 will too. As to price, remember if it is exported from Oz or NZ then you shouldn't pay their local sales tax; so ask the dealer for an export price.

Yes its roast capacity is smaller than the Gene but from my point of view, as a home user, that is a strength; I can have two or three single origins on the go and be fairly secure none will go stale waiting to be brewed. And there is absolutely no hassle putting in a 120g load of green beans and spending 9 minutes roasting another batch ready for next morning. This product challenges the norms set by home drum roasting. No hassle; no burnt batches just the surprise of good roasted coffee.

I speak from the experience of having done 185 roasts on my machine delivered in April.

Finally, I asked John Robson to update this thread as to answer the comment made by *mctrials23* as I knew there were plans to bring the Kaffeelogic Nano 7 to the UK. So, thank you John for doing that and I apologise for the prickly and suspicious reception you've been given. Apparently, we lack the Kiwi friendliness here in the sad old UK.


----------



## MildredM

Hey! We're not sad  my view was it would be great to start a thread to show off the product!


----------



## catpuccino

Yes indeed...my reply was light-hearted...I found the thin veil quite amusing ?


----------



## Step21

Polly said:


> I started this thread and my only connection with Kaffelogic is that I am a happy customer..........
> 
> Finally, I asked John Robson to update this thread


 Forgive the scepticism but these two statements are somewhat inconsistent. It seems unusual imo for a customer to invite the director of the company to comment.

We are not unfriendly (mostly!) but do appreciate clarity on possible vested interests especially when it comes across as a sales pitch.

I'm sure that the Kaffelogic will be an interesting machine and look forward to hearing more about it. Whether it can take Ikawa market share given it's price point we shall see. It certainly brings competition to that sector of the market.


----------



## Rob1

Polly said:


> These days importing is easy for private users. Just know you will be taken for 'import duty' at +20% on the NZ/Au purchase price. Shipping for mine was around £50. NZ and Oz suppliers here https://kaffelogic.com/index.php/home/buy-now
> 
> As for the Gene - without any process control - it really must be useless. I'm fussing over power inputs of a few percent to get my Yirgacheffe even better. There is no way on this earth a Gene could get close to following a profile the way the Kaffelogic does. I fail to understand the Gene's popularity.


 Your comment could be extend to proper roasters like the Dalian Amazon for example. Ability to follow a profile via automated software doesn't mean it's going to produce the best roast.

The Gene is very capable of reproducing roasts producing identical flavours in the cup time after time. Yes, with power control modification. I don't understand why somebody would buy it and not mod it for greater control but there you go. Before my bad soldering gave way (and I haven't bothered fixing it yet) I was able to track the effect of power changes on the roast (with a somewhat consistent voltage +/-5v approx) with a thermocouple I placed in the bean mass and roasts were reproduced almost exactly in terms of drum and bean mass temperature. So while it might not follow a profile the same way computer controlled roasters will it is very much capable of reproducing things in a way that actually matters: in the cup.


----------



## Polly

Step21 said:


> Forgive the scepticism but these two statements are somewhat inconsistent. It seems unusual imo for a customer to invite the director of the company to comment.
> 
> We are not unfriendly (mostly!) but do appreciate clarity on possible vested interests especially when it comes across as a sales pitch.
> 
> I'm sure that the Kaffelogic will be an interesting machine and look forward to hearing more about it. Whether it can take Ikawa market share given it's price point we shall see. It certainly brings competition to that sector of the market.


 If I recall correctly I responded to an email John Robson, sent to early Kaffelogic backers, that asked for suggestions for dealers in coffee equipment around the world. I replied suggesting two in the UK and we fell into a short conversation.

I also message the company founder and Kaffelogic inventor from time to time; I still do; I tell you this in a spirit of openness. I have made a number of suggested improvements to the software, the firmware and the the hardware. Some of which have been adopted. I also ask for brewing advice in getting the best from my machine. Is it OK, then, that I recommend the Kaffelogic, in your view? Or have I somehow disqualified myself from comment and recommendation.

I think being an early backer of the product has given me an almost motherly sense of responsibility for Kaffelogic and a wish for its success. Did early backers of the Niche Zero Grinder, here, feel the same as it became successful?

I roast coffee and brew espresso for my better enjoyment; I have no financial connection with the company; does that assuage your extreme cynicism?

I seem to remember a strap-line on this site that stated it was 'said to be one of the friendliest communities on the web'; I don't ever recall having to account for my posts so much on any other fora to which I belong for recommending a product.

I initially made this post because a single brand roaster seems to be the go-to device for home roasters and I sensed a collective blindness to the brands failings. I don't know where you roast your coffee but I roast mine in my kitchen under the cooker hood with the extractor fan on. I don't know where you store or keep your roaster when not in use. I keep mine in the kitchen next to the hob. My roaster looks not unlike a ECM grinder in form and is at home in a kitchen environment ready to be used instantly.


----------



## mctrials23

I think we can probably agree that it wasn't 100% transparent but it is now.

@Polly - for some reason there is quite a lot of suspicion whenever anyone plugs a new product on here. It happened with the Niche, the Minima and is probably something to do with the coffee market being a little stale for a long time and suddenly the market is getting a lot of new products. Some good, some bad. In general its a great forum but sometimes people just get into little arguments about semantics.

I would love to get a little roaster like this personally.

The Gene cafe seems quite involved and I think I have read too much about things like mods, smoking your house out when you make a mistake or your mains voltages being slightly variable effecting roast. That being said, loads of people love theirs.

I want a small roaster I can use in the kitchen that can reproduce roast profiles accurately and accept profiles from people who know what they are doing. The Ikawa sounds good but its literally a 2 double shot roaster. Too small for me.

@John Robson When these come to the UK, do you have a rough idea on pricing vs importing one.


----------



## Step21

Well at least we know how it is ventilated now.


----------



## Rob1

Polly said:


> I initially made this post because a single brand roaster seems to be the go-to device for home roasters and I sensed a collective blindness to the brands failings. I don't know where you roast your coffee but I roast mine in my kitchen under the cooker hood with the extractor fan on. I don't know where you store or keep your roaster when not in use. I keep mine in the kitchen next to the hob. My roaster looks not unlike a ECM grinder in form and is at home in a kitchen environment ready to be used instantly.


 If you had bothered to contribute/get involved with the forum more perhaps you wouldn't need to rely on extrasensory perception to make judgements.

There are a variety of roasters used by forum members here. Some use the Dalian Amazon, at least two use an Aillio Bullet R1, others use a Cormorant or Ikawa to name a few. In the past there have been users of the hottop and behmor, though I'm not sure if they're still active on the forum or still use them to roast, and I'm 90% certain somebody has used a Kaldi before. People have also used small hand devices that are used on the hob, usually called "ceramic hand held coffee roaster" or something similar. There are a number of users who have modified popcorn poppers to create a fluid bed roaster, and again I'm 90% certain some have even added thermocouples to read BT and ET, and added control over fan speed and power to the heater.

There's no blindness to the shortcomings of the Gene, hence the recommended modifications, and people should really get that it's an involved process that requires attention and is a fully manual roaster with no computer assistance that requires experience to produce good roasts. Most people roast on the hob under an extractor fan or have the roaster positioned next to a window and vent outside with ducting, it doesn't produce a lot of smoke unless you go into second crack. There are times I've forgotten to turn the extractor fan on or open the window without having smoke alarms go off. If you wanted to you could fully replace the electronics and run it via computer control for greater control but it's not a step I feel the need to take and if you were going to do that you could probably just make your own simple fluid bed roaster with arduino control.

You seem to really like the roaster and are happy with the roasts you're producing, which is the main thing, so I'm happy for you. I personally don't really feel I can comment on the roaster or the quality of the roasts having not used it, just as I can't comment on the Bullet, Amazon or any other roaster for that matter, so it's good you're here to share your experience.

Maybe you'd like to head to the 'today's roast' thread where you can post images of your roasts, share profiles, and learn more about the coffees and roasters other members are using.


----------



## DavecUK

Funny I was contacted about this Roaster by a UK retailer today. After reading this thread with interest, it would seem there is a marketing push for the product at the moment. I get the impression said retailer might want to send me one to get a stock, no stock decision.

Should I choose to review it, people who trust my reviews may want to hang fire and wait. See if the retailer stocks it, and even if they do, is there a published review. It's a lot of money, so it's worth being sure you have the information to decide if it's OK for you.


----------



## Rhys

I think this forum has gone a great way in helping companies get a lift off with their products just from user reviews alone (Niche anyone?) I do think @John Robson first post should've mentioned his involvement in his product as he's the 'markletting' bod for the company. Hence telling folks that one roaster is like chalk and cheese compared to another is a very biased opinion, especially when one isn't similar to another in terms of functionality and price. Anyway, thanks for the (eventual) openness.


----------



## Batian

Polly said:


> For those that have taken the plunge and imported a Nano 7 from NZ, it is heartening to hear that someone came second in the Coffee Snob's Golden Bean Home Roasters Competition, Espresso Class, using the Ninja profile as supplied with the machine.
> 
> The competitor was Mark - "bruiserbbq" as you will see in the results sheet below.
> 
> https://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-news/52990-home-coffee-roaster-competition-2019-a.html#post664702


 I have to wonder how much credence should be given to this competition and its results?

Notwithstanding the fun the forums competitors will have had, the competitor that came second, got his second placed roast using a microchip and software created by another person. That makes it rather like buying a Marks and Sparks 'ping meal' bunging it in an oven and then making out you are (the late) Antonio Carluccio or Delia!

I am sure the above advertised roasting device will find a niche (!!!!) with those people that want to have the fun in roasting their own coffee at home with certain success, but whether they will acquire the art of roasting (or 'get it' as another forum member says) with this device is another matter.

I had a very successful 2 years roasting some 70+ kgs of coffee with an un-modded Gene. Hand on heart, there was never an bad/undrinkable roast. It taught me a lot and spurred me into saving for the Dalian. I still have the Gene and use it occasionally for roasting samples.


----------



## Stevebee

Batian said:


> I have to wonder how much credence should be given to this competition and its results?


 Well when I looked at the results the overall winner.... used a Gene! Makes quotes of "useless" seem a bit churlish


----------



## Step21

Stevebee said:


> Well when I looked at the results the overall winner.... used a Gene! Makes quotes of "useless" seem a bit churlish


 Congratulations! Must surely be one of those collectively blind portly chaps/chapess who roasts in their shed...


----------



## The Systemic Kid

This thread has required moderator input - not naming names ?please do not post derogatory and/or inflammatory remarks. They will be removed and likely lead to the thread being locked.


----------



## Step21

DavecUK said:


> Funny I was contacted about this Roaster by a UK retailer today. After reading this thread with interest, it would seem there is a marketing push for the product at the moment. I get the impression said retailer might want to send me one to get a stock, no stock decision.
> 
> Should I choose to review it, people who trust my reviews may want to hang fire and wait. See if the retailer stocks it, and even if they do, is there a published review. It's a lot of money, so it's worth being sure you have the information to decide if it's OK for you.


 Have your views changed on these types of roaster? You can review this without confirmation bias?

I recall that a few years back you were able to tell us without using one that the Ikawa was rubbish and no more than a glorified popcorn machine.

The Kaffelogic looks to have very similar technology.


----------



## mctrials23

Batian said:


> Notwithstanding the fun the forums competitors will have had, the competitor that came second, got his second placed roast using a microchip and software created by another person. That makes it rather like buying a Marks and Sparks 'ping meal' bunging it in an oven and then making out you are (the late) Antonio Carluccio or Delia!
> 
> I am sure the above advertised roasting device will find a niche (!!!!) with those people that want to have the fun in roasting their own coffee at home with certain success, but whether they will acquire the art of roasting (or 'get it' as another forum member says) with this device is another matter.


 I agree with your sentiment towards the competition but im not so sure about the "art of roasting". Surely that is something where the end goal is the extract the most out of a bean via your roasting so if a profile from someone half way across the world does that then isn't it all the same thing. A lot of people (myself included) simply don't have the desire or time to get to grips with roasting on a slightly less forgiving roaster so something that does 99% of the work would be perfect for me.

I wouldn't necessarily be claiming that I have any roasting skills but my main desire for it would be to reduce the cost of beans a little, play with roast profiles that are easily repeatable and give myself a super simple way to keep myself in beans without having to think about ordering every few weeks and keeping stock of whats left vs how much I am using.


----------



## DavecUK

Step21 said:


> Have your views changed on these types of roaster? You can review this without confirmation bias?
> 
> I recall that a few years back you were able to tell us without using one that the Ikawa was rubbish and no more than a glorified popcorn machine.
> 
> The Kaffelogic looks to have very similar technology.


 I commented on Ikawa as a Kickstarter project I think you backed it and got yours for about £600 not the £1270 or so they sell at now. My views that these type of roasters cannot do *everything* they claim has not changed and that is based on knowledge and experience. They are* expensive,* very small batches and essentially fluidised bed air roasters. The Nano 7 does have a double the batch size of the Ikawa, at some £470 cheaper, whether it works well or not, or whether people will buy it in quantity, I have no idea. *You* may not find my reviews useful as you clearly believe there is confirmation bias in them so whatever I say will not change your opinion, hopefully some people find them useful.

I have not really said anything about Nano 7 on this thread or the way it which it may or may not have been "marketed". People should think about things...that the Marketing Director didn't comment on in *UK Users (Polly)* statement.



If you import from New Zealand, what about the warranty (do you have one, is it spares only, or send back to retailer)


Is the imported product UK/EU Certified (you will be using it in the house remember)


How will you get maintenance spares


Are the prices quoted correct (one NZ retailer is $100 below the others)


If 2 UK retailers have been suggested, why also suggest the grey market route


Reviewing a roaster properly is a *lot* of work....much more than people realise. I can't just enthusiastically say it's great after doing a few roasts with 1 bean. It takes 6 or 7 types of coffee, many many batches and weeks to reasonably assess something. The 1Kg Dalian took me 3 or 4 months and 100s of Kg of different coffees. Hence my comment that people might want to *wait* until either:



I have done a review,


Done a review that won't be published


Or they know I am not going to do one because I don't want to spend the time on it (that could also mean I got it, started and thought I don't want to do this).


----------



## Step21

With respect Dave that is a politicians answer.

I don't generally read your reviews because I'm not interested in the stuff you review. But I do understand that your reviews are widely respected and I am not disputing that.

I did watch your recent video on the espresso hand grinders because I'm interested in hand grinders. I thought it was very well done. The bit I found most interesting was your evident surprise that it was actually capable of producing good enough grinds for a decent shot.

The whole Ikawa/ Kaffelogic bang for buck thing is irrelevant imo for the market it's aimed at. People will perhaps be more attracted (perhaps rightly) to the Kaffelogic on price and output if it can produce quality roasts. The bits and pieces I've read about it so far seem positive and our OP certainly likes it (if not us).

I realise that this is perhaps somewhat off topic but in what particular instance can the Ikawa not do as claimed? Would it be correct to say that you no longer class the Ikawa as rubbish ( bang for buck excluded)?


----------



## DavecUK

Step21 said:


> With respect Dave that is a politicians answer.


 OK then I guess end of conversation...If you want start an Ikawa thread, get people to contribute. Show and tell people what it can do. In the same way you are not interested in the stuff I review, I'm not interested in the Ikawa because of the tiny batch size it produces or what I personally consider to expensive. I personally would have to roast 4 or 5 times each day to keep up with my personal consumption. Each roast would have to be kept separately until it's ready to drink....it simply doesn't fit my lifestyle.

I tend to review products where I have the personal perception of a higher value proposition and that I am interested in reviewing....I thought the hand grinders were very expensive, until I realised that compared to the rest of the market, they were actually well priced. I was talked into doing that one but glad I did. For the Ikawa i'm not sure about that value proposition and considering the Nano 7 is £450 cheaper for twice the output, perhaps I am right....

If I have confirmation bias, you are in effect saying that I won't give the Nano 7 a fair review for a retailer so they can decide whether to stock it or not.....I have also been accused of giving products I review for them only "favourable reviews"............think about that one for a minute. Whatever review I write, there will be people who don't agree....fortunately they are usually able to find a review that says the exact opposite. In this way the internet keeps everyone happy.


----------



## Batian

mctrials23 said:


> I agree with your sentiment towards the competition but im not so sure about the "art of roasting". Surely that is something where the end goal is the extract the most out of a bean via your roasting so if a profile from someone half way across the world does that then isn't it all the same thing. A lot of people (myself included) simply don't have the desire or time to get to grips with roasting on a slightly less forgiving roaster so something that does 99% of the work would be perfect for me.
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily be claiming that I have any roasting skills but my main desire for it would be to reduce the cost of beans a little, play with roast profiles that are easily repeatable and give myself a super simple way to keep myself in beans without having to think about ordering every few weeks and keeping stock of whats left vs how much I am using.


 That was the point in saying that this roaster may find a niche market with those who do not want to actually learn 'the art'.

There are a couple of things to point out here.

A profile created by a skilled roaster in say, an arid part of tropical Australia, may be a disaster when tried in Manchester UK on a rainy day in February !

Also the coffee that is marketed in other parts of the world is not necessarily marketed in all countries.This is is particular to 'speciality' grades. There is no point in spending money on commodity grade stuff unless you need to learn a larger volume roaster.

I am often frustrated when I see the major players in the green coffee business selling what I know to be excellent coffees, but not selling them in UK. It also applies closer to home with coffee available in mainland Europe but not in UK and vice versa.

Unless you want a whacking great carriage fee!

So just because Bruce in Cairns, Oz, has created a cracking good profile for "a Kenyan coffee", this may not work as well on a "a Kenyan coffee" roasted elsewhere in the world.

And that is where 'the art' come in. Not having 'the art' is not going to help to when a profile does not work. You just have to do it and learn!

As for stock control, it is quite simple really. There are plenty of reputable sellers of speciality coffee in 1kg lots. It's just estimate what your use is, and go for it!

Green coffee, on roasting is going to lose (roughly) 12 to 18% weight depending on your desired level of roast. That is going to be the same whatever roaster you use. So if costs are important do not forget to allow for this.

The Gene is a little more forgiving than it is often portrayed on forums. A big plus is the glass chamber which allows you to see the whole roasting mass. If you purchase from Bella Barista, the notes supplied (and written by DavecUK of this forum) are invaluable and will get you on the right track. The makers instructions, are, shall I say, limited!

I do hope you start roasting and have fun whatever way you approach it.


----------



## MildredM

I'm not actually a moderator. I signed up to move Spam only actually, just to help the hard working mods.

Maybe try to keep the thread less personal and not let it degenerate into bickering would be my suggestion


----------



## Step21

DavecUK said:


> OK then I guess end of conversation...If you want start an Ikawa thread, get people to contribute. Show and tell people what it can do. In the same way you are not interested in the stuff I review, I'm not interested in the Ikawa because of the tiny batch size it produces or what I personally consider to expensive. I personally would have to roast 4 or 5 times each day to keep up with my personal consumption. Each roast would have to be kept separately until it's ready to drink....it simply doesn't fit my lifestyle.
> 
> I tend to review products where I have the personal perception of a higher value proposition and that I am interested in reviewing....I thought the hand grinders were very expensive, until I realised that compared to the rest of the market, they were actually well priced. I was talked into doing that one but glad I did. For the Ikawa i'm not sure about that value proposition and considering the Nano 7 is £450 cheaper for twice the output, perhaps I am right....
> 
> If I have confirmation bias, you are in effect saying that I won't give the Nano 7 a fair review for a retailer so they can decide whether to stock it or not.....I have also been accused of giving products I review for them only "favourable reviews"............think about that one for a minute. Whatever review I write, there will be people who don't agree....fortunately they are usually able to find a review that says the exact opposite. In this way the internet keeps everyone happy.


 So clearly your objection to the Ikawa is nothing to do with the quality of the roast but due to the low capacity versus the cost. We'll leave that there.

The Kaffelogic would still require you to roast 3 times a day at a lesser but at a still significant cost. Something you clearly express frustration at above.

I would assume that the terms of any review are between yourself and the potential retailer and the results need not be published. The retailer will want to be assured of sufficient quality by your review and use that as part of their decision to stock it or not.

If you decide to publish it on your site then of course people will form their own views (perhaps with their own confirmation bias) and conclude what they want. It's a no win situation I agree. That's life. Supporters will laud you and detractors the opposite.

The people who will potentially use this product will be those who don't need or want to roast in large quantities or are happy to multiple roast. They will mainly be interested in the roast quality and perhaps the ease of use. It's up to the retailer and manufacturer to sort out after sales/pricing etc...


----------



## Step21

Batian said:


> There are a couple of things to point out here.
> 
> A profile created by a skilled roaster in say, an arid part of tropical Australia, may be a disaster when tried in Manchester UK on a rainy day in February.....
> 
> So just because Bruce in Cairns, Oz, has created a cracking good profile for "a Kenyan coffee", this may not work as well on a "a Kenyan coffee" roasted elsewhere in the world.
> 
> And that is where 'the art' come in. Not having 'the art' is not going to help to when a profile does not work. You just have to do it and learn.


 This is very true. Ikawa supply 6 bags of different coffee with associated profiles with the machine.

Roasters across the world then find that they can't agree on the results due to climatic conditions.

So you have to learn how to adapt the profiles to suit or create your own.

I just got a 1kg bag from East Timor. There is no magic East Timor profile. How do I approach it, how developed do I want it to be? You need to figure it out for yourself. But it is a rewarding challenge.


----------



## 4085

Step21 said:


> So clearly your objection to the Ikawa is nothing to do with the quality of the roast but due to the low capacity versus the cost. We'll leave that there.
> 
> The Kaffelogic would still require you to roast 3 times a day at a lesser but at a still significant cost. Something you clearly express frustration at above.
> 
> I would assume that the terms of any review are between yourself and the potential retailer and the results need not be published. The retailer will want to be assured of sufficient quality by your review and use that as part of their decision to stock it or not.
> 
> If you decide to publish it on your site then of course people will form their own views (perhaps with their own confirmation bias) and conclude what they want. It's a no win situation I agree. That's life. Supporters will laud you and detractors the opposite.
> 
> The people who will potentially use this product will be those who don't need or want to roast in large quantities or are happy to multiple roast. They will mainly be interested in the roast quality and perhaps the ease of use. It's up to the retailer and manufacturer to sort out after sales/pricing etc...


 By gum, you spout a load of tosh mr keyboard warrior......if you had ever taken the time to read through similar posts about Dave and his habits, you would know the following:

he does not review for money alone, and the fee he charges is not remotely comparable to the time and effort spent (take Niche, he charged something paltry like £75 and that was donated to a guineau pig hospital)

he has to have an interest in what the item actually is, since he is not being paid in the honest sense of the word to do the review

the firm have to agree to print his findings without redaction, so they know in advance it is warts and all

do I have to go on or are you going to continue mouthing off


----------



## Step21

dfk41 said:


> By gum, you spout a load of tosh mr keyboard warrior......if you had ever taken the time to read through similar posts about Dave and his habits, you would know the following:
> 
> he does not review for money alone, and the fee he charges is not remotely comparable to the time and effort spent (take Niche, he charged something paltry like £75 and that was donated to a guineau pig hospital)
> 
> he has to have an interest in what the item actually is, since he is not being paid in the honest sense of the word to do the review
> 
> the firm have to agree to print his findings without redaction, so they know in advance it is warts and all
> 
> do I have to go on or are you going to continue mouthing off


 I seem to have run into the DaveC fan club.

I am pointing out that Dave has previously rubbished this type of roaster and is now (possibly) going to review a similar one. I think people may want to know that background. They may not.


----------



## 4085

Step21 said:


> I seem to have run into the DaveC fan club.
> 
> I am pointing out that Dave has previously rubbished this type of roaster and is now (possibly) going to review a similar one. I think people may want to know that background. They may not.


 Believe me, if Dave reviews this roaster, he will tell all what he thinks of it. If it is as good as others think, then they will be happy. If not, the opposite. Just for the record, when you have known someone as long as I have known Dave, no fan club is necessary


----------



## The Systemic Kid

OK. Sadly this thread is getting too heated and several members have PMd mods expressing concern(s) regarding some content so thread has been locked.


----------

