# Wishing I'd gone on demand......



## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

After only a week of using my Mxa, I'm wishing I'd got an 'on demand' to save some of the faffing of single dosing.

After looking around I'm still none the wiser at what I should consider. Eureka Mignon, Compak K3, or something else entirely.

If you had a budget of around ~£300, a Gaggia Classic, drinking 2-4 espresso per day, and not wanting to keep upgrading yoy, what would you be considering?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

The Zenith 65e looks interesting


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

jonc said:


> The Zenith 65e looks interesting


£500+


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

You're welcome









£300-350 ish used - you want new for ~£300?


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

and with the 75e just out there's sure to be a few 65e's gracing the classifieds!


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

jonc said:


> You're welcome
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not necessarily new, no. Just not hammered







. I didn't know how long the 65e had been out.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Definitely worth a look then I think - some folk report some clumpiness but I think that's with just a few specific beans.

I'll '@' you if I see one come up in the For sale section


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Bare minimum go for a Mignon, new price is in your budget.

Ian


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Are you sure you want on demand? For 2-4 coffees a day I would imagine you'll need to purge every time which could result in a fair amount of wastage?


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

risky said:


> Are you sure you want on demand? For 2-4 coffees a day I would imagine you'll need to purge every time which could result in a fair amount of wastage?


Pls explain?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

risky said:


> Are you sure you want on demand? For 2-4 coffees a day I would imagine you'll need to purge every time which could result in a fair amount of wastage?


On demand retains the same in the chute as a dosered unit though. Doser retains more unless modded. The issue is that OD grinders don't perform their best when using small qtys of beans, hence the need for weights in the hopper.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

funinacup said:


> On demand retains the same in the chute as a dosered unit though. Doser retains more unless modded. The issue is that OD grinders don't perform their best when using small qtys of beans, hence the need for weights in the hopper.


Mmm OK. I'm just getting fed up of weighing beans into the machine, then the ground out of the doser into the basket, then the cup after 30 secs! Faffy!!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

funinacup said:


> On demand retains the same in the chute as a dosered unit though. Doser retains more unless modded. The issue is that OD grinders don't perform their best when using small qtys of beans, hence the need for weights in the hopper.


I presumed that since OP didn't like the 'faffing' of single dosing he wouldn't be doing it in a OD grinder either and would be filling the hopper? But you have pointed out the flaw in the plan if they do plan to single dose.



c10cko said:


> Pls explain?


If you are filling the hopper with beans, after every dose there will be partially ground beans in the burr area. These will go stale and should be 'purged' before you grind another dose.

If you don't fill the hopper, and single dose to avoid this, you then need to address the issue of getting some weight on the beans to ensure grind consistency, which is what Michael is talking about, and what I presume you want to avoid doing? Or was the faffing you were talking about the cleaning out of a doser etc.?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

c10cko said:


> Mmm OK. I'm just getting fed up of weighing beans into the machine, then the ground out of the doser into the basket, then the cup after 30 secs! Faffy!!


It's the only way to ensure consistency.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

risky said:


> I presumed that since OP didn't like the 'faffing' of single dosing he wouldn't be doing it in a OD grinder either and would be filling the hopper? But you have pointed out the flaw in the plan if they do plan to single dose.
> 
> If you are filling the hopper with beans, after every dose there will be partially ground beans in the burr area. These will go stale and should be 'purged' before you grind another dose.
> 
> If you don't fill the hopper, and single dose to avoid this, you then need to address the issue of getting some weight on the beans to ensure grind consistency, which is what Michael is talking about, and what I presume you want to avoid doing? Or was the faffing you were talking about the cleaning out of a doser etc.?


Yes mainly cleaning out the doser. I'm waiting for my collapsible camera Len cover which may assist in 'cleaning' out all the grounds.


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## Brewster (Jun 9, 2015)

Might not be of interest, but if you're considering a Mignon I also have a used, but as new, doserless Rancilio Rocky still for sale for £180 at http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25414-Pristine-2014-Rancilio-Rocky-Doserless-%A3180.


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## unoll (Jan 22, 2014)

Maybe try getting a knock grinder. Espresso can get a bit fiddly but on the plus side: retention is low and you get a little bit of a work out.

If you want one quickly then 2nd hand would be the best way to go unless you're very patient.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

unoll said:


> Maybe try getting a knock grinder. Espresso can get a bit fiddly but on the plus side: retention is low and you get a little bit of a work out.
> 
> If you want one quickly then 2nd hand would be the best way to go unless you're very patient.


I've managed to buy a Brazilia RR55OD. The one without the static!!

I've listed my Mxa on this forum now.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Still needs a little tweaking!

Not sure what to set the grind adjustment too. I've set it by getting the chirp and rotating the burrs away. Just not sure how far apart.

I've set the F1 dose at 5.8 sec and the F2 at 6.0. Looks like theses need to be increased as currently the portafilter isn't anywhere near full. Probably cos I've it's not been seasoned like my Mxa.

52 mm OD x 100 mm acrylic tube to be ordered unless I go with a 52 mm camera hood. I think I prefer the tube option with the Heavy metal rod placed inside it.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

c10cko said:


> Still needs a little tweaking!
> 
> Not sure what to set the grind adjustment too. I've set it by getting the chirp and rotating the burrs away. Just not sure how far apart.
> 
> ...


Just realised nobody had replied to this.

Setting grind adjustment: This is done by timing how long the shot takes and adjusting as necessary. As a very rough starting point you probably want 18g of ground beans to give you 36g of espresso in about 30 seconds. But this is a very rough starting point. This video will explain, you need to manipulate the yield (the 36g part) until you find what tastes the best, this is done by simply flicking the switch on the Gaggia to stop the flow at a certain weight. You then need to adjust the time until again you find what tastes the best. This is done by adjusting the grind. A finder grind will make the shot take longer to pull, a courser grind will make it run faster.

Regarding setting the time, you need to weigh the basket after the grinder has 'dosed' to see what it is giving you and adjust until you get 18g (presuming you are using the Gaggia double basket?). Someone else might be better placed to go advise on your dose.

Finally the tube with the weight is the only way to go. You need weight on top of the beans or the grind consistency will be all over the place.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you @risky.

All pretty much sorted. Grinder set to run for 17 secs giving 18g onto the basket. 30 seconds I get 36g of espresso!!



















Thanks must go to @ridland for his assistance.

Now just my two week old Mxa grinder to sell!! Post on sales forum









http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25752-For-Sale-Macap-Mxa-Coffee-Grinder-%A3225&p=334855


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Good to hear. That's a good starting place to dial in each bean.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Nice.

I'm currently using a lens hood on mine and a couple of puffs after grinding clears approx, an extra 1g from the chute. I set the timer to grind 1g under so then the puff gets the remainder out and have 0 (or as close as) retention. I like the idea of tube and weight to give better consistency. I may give it a try and look at putting the lens hood on top of the tube so I can still puff it clear. Where did you get the tube and weight from .. eBay ?

17secs for 18g in the basket seems a lot longer than mine which takes round 5.5-6secs for 18g. How old are the burrs, it sounds like it may need new ones to me.

Regarding setting the grind on the RR55OD is pretty straight forward as long as you don't try and set the dose and grind at the same time. First get the grind correct and ignore the timer, so set the timer longer than required and weigh the output each time until you get the grind correct. Once the grind is set then you can set the timer to get the dose you need.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

marcuswar said:


> Nice.
> 
> I'm currently using a lens hood on mine and a couple of puffs after grinding clears approx, an extra 1g from the chute. I set the timer to grind 1g under so then the puff gets the remainder out and have 0 (or as close as) retention. I like the idea of tube and weight to give better consistency. I may give it a try and look at putting the lens hood on top of the tube so I can still puff it clear. Where did you get the tube and weight from .. eBay ?
> 
> 17secs for 18g in the basket seems a lot longer than mine which takes round 5.5-6secs for 18g. How old are the burrs, it sounds like it may need new ones


Yes, tube and weight from eBay. I can PM you more info if you require it.

The burrs may have seen better days!


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Cheers c10cko, if you could pm me more info I'd appreciated.

I think you defo need to get new burrs for the beast. Be aware that there are different burr sets for the Dosered and OnDemand versions and the RR55 and RR45. They are all the same physical size so they will all fit but the configuration of teeth is different. The original parts (with curved teeth) are virtually impossible to get hold off since the company went bust. I believe the original burrs for the doser versions have 12 larger bean breaking teeth, whereas the RR55OD OEM versions I have, have 16 of these bean breaking surfaces so are more aggressive.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> Are you sure you want on demand? For 2-4 coffees a day I would imagine you'll need to purge every time which could result in a fair amount of wastage?


I define any coffee beverage I've not fully enjoyed to be wastage. Single dosing on conventional grinders increases the frequency of those occurrences IMO.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

c10cko said:


> After only a week of using my Mxa, I'm wishing I'd got an 'on demand' to save some of the faffing of single dosing.
> 
> After looking around I'm still none the wiser at what I should consider. Eureka Mignon, Compak K3, or something else entirely.
> 
> If you had a budget of around ~£300, a Gaggia Classic, drinking 2-4 espresso per day, and not wanting to keep upgrading yoy, what would you be considering?


why don't you just use a full hopper and grind / thwack only what you need for each drink?


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## frederickaj (Jul 31, 2014)

Almost new Mignon ending on Ebay on Wednesday . Current bid is £109


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> I define any coffee beverage I've not fully enjoyed to be wastage. Single dosing on conventional grinders increases the frequency of those occurrences IMO.


I agree. However I'd hope people single dosing always use weight on top of beans to prevent this. Seems the best of both worlds?



garydyke1 said:


> why don't you just use a full hopper and grind / thwack only what you need for each drink?


You'd still need to clean out stale grounds from the doser every time?


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

marcuswar said:


> How old are the burrs, it sounds like it may need new ones to me.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Difficult to say how sharp the are from a picture (although 17secs suggests not very). I can see they aren't the original burrs though as the cutting edges are straight not curved. They also look to have only 12 large bean crushing teeth so I'd suggest they are not the best match for the on demand version.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> I agree. However I'd hope people single dosing always use weight on top of beans to prevent this. Seems the best of both worlds?
> 
> You'd still need to clean out stale grounds from the doser every time?


you still get 3 different grind profiles - take up, mid grind , popcorning .

Not if it sweeps clean.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> you still get 3 different grind profiles - take up, mid grind , popcorning .
> 
> Not if it sweeps clean.


Agreed but you'd have partially ground coffee in the burrs that you'd need to purge before the next shot wouldn't you? Which is the usual on demand complaint. And take a Super Jolly timer for example, it seems awfully awkward to regulate how long to grind for in order to give you 18g?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Always open to new ideas. Not even sure what we're debating here? Were you saying you'd take an OD with a full hopper over something like an SJ? I'm probably inclined to agree. Just doesn't suit folk who want to change beans all the time.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> Agreed but you'd have partially ground coffee in the burrs that you'd need to purge before the next shot wouldn't you? Which is the usual on demand complaint. And take a Super Jolly timer for example, it seems awfully awkward to regulate how long to grind for in order to give you 18g?
> 
> I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Always open to new ideas. Not even sure what we're debating here? Were you saying you'd take an OD with a full hopper over something like an SJ? I'm probably inclined to agree. Just doesn't suit folk who want to change beans all the time.


you can always purge 1g if you feel the need.

The OPs grinder can be made to work absolutely fine without the need to continue with the 'single dosing faff'


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> you can always purge 1g if you feel the need.
> 
> The OPs grinder can be made to work absolutely fine without the need to continue with the 'single dosing faff'


Indeed. However he's got rid of it now and has an RR55OD!

What would your go to routine be with a Mazzer for example then?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> What would your go to routine be with a Mazzer for example then?


Fill hopper.

Grind + thwack until basket almost full.

weigh contents.

Top up / boost the dose thwack by thwack. pulsing the motor if needs a top up.

stop when hit target dose +/- 0.2g


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

c10cko said:


> View attachment 16107
> View attachment 16108


burrs are definitely knackered. I was getting the same sort of grind times. I replaced the burrs and now I get 18g in 6-8 seconds depending upon the beans. You can get the original OD burrs from both Eevad in France and Bullonerosso in Germany. Only downside is that shipping will be about the same as the cost of the burrs. I ordered two sets myself to make sure that I would not be stuck in the future but that is probably not needed in home environment. You can also get the grind adjustment buttons from Bullonerosso and considering that other users have reported them to be fragile, when I upgraded to 80 step ring, I ordered a couple of spare buttons.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

cingur said:


> interesting thread, I also have the same question


spam much


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