# La Pav & MC2 grinder & other basics



## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

... Has anyone with experience successfully paired an Iberital MC2 and got good shots? Seems like grind is quite important.

Couple of other things:

1) Dose weight- 14g seems to be a struggle. Is this realistically a 11-12g dose (in the dbl basket)?

2) presumably the normal brew ratios still apply. So i should be aiming for about 20g of fluid? 1:2.

3) Does anyone know the volume of water that can make it into the group head/ puck. I seem to be a bit light if going for 20g as above by the time the lever is fully down. I think i need to investigate a part pull? Would a larger basket allow more water in?

4) im used to shots coming through in 30s on a Classic. Is time less important here- just a smooth pull?

5) i have a europiccola. Is there any benefit in modding a pressure valve?

6) how much pressure should be applied to the lever? Like chopping cheddar or like two fingers light? ( cant think of any other pressure examples)


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## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

Grind is very important. So is practice, practice, practice. Don't have the I MC2 but, in general, grinder quality is very important with the LP because, once you get the hang of it, there are no limits on how expertly you can coax the nuances out of a dose of espresso - except the limitations of the grinder. The MC2 is an espresso-capable machine (by reputation), so go with it until you can trade up to something more admirable. With this combination, I would trade up first on the grinder, then follow later on the machine, if you wish. There are plenty who can play the simple LP as a virtuoso instrument. It takes practice, patience and, most of all, attention and memory for what has worked. Knowledge concerning the temp of your group head is the key to success. Once it becomes second nature, then paying attention to timing and steam-release will replace the need to know temperature.

Let me meet you halfway by trying to answer your questions, then finishing with my agenda for information.

1) - 14 gm does crowd the standard LaPav double basket. Most of us use Elekra MCL double baskets, which are deeper and can hold up to 16-17 gm, but use it for 14 gm. Warning: LP changed designs frequently. Some LP portafilters (PF) will fit the MCL baskets and some are too shallow. The dimensions are given on the Stefanos Espresso Care web site and you can measure the depth of your PF.

2) - 14-15 gm shots are not unusual for the Europiccola. 22-26 gm is the upper end. You are not going to get commercial cafe volume shots from this machine. Just commercial quality, or better.

3) - By this, do you mean you are lacking body? Then maybe grinding finer will give you more body. You do not tell us if you are getting good shots, overextracted bitter or underextracted sour shots. If your shots are good or slighly too bright, you have leeway to grind a little finer for the sake of body. Decreasing the dose allows more water to flow into the increased space above the smaller puck, so your full basket is allowing less water in. Does the pull feel firm or spongy? A quick lift of the lever may trap a lot of air in the cylinder, which decreases the amount of water and feels spongy on the pull. Part pulls do not do anything for me. If you are consistently getting 20 gm pulls, you can try part pulls and then you will know what works on your machine better than the rest of us. A larger basket will allow both a larger dose and permit more water above the puck. It gives you more alowance on adjusting your ratio to your liking.

4) - As you know, taste is what is important. I have pulled for over a minute for some - but not most - roasts on my machine. Pulling longer will increase extraction and add to the body that you seem to be wanting. As long as you are not going into bitter and weak territory.

5) - If you are talking about putting a pressure gauge on top of the sightglass, yes, by all means do it to monitor boiler temperature. You do not tell us if you have a premillenium or millenium Europiccola and the operation of the two is different, depending upon whether you have two-switch heating elements or the pressurestat switch. You do have a pressure valve - the steam control knob.

6) - For me, I am always pulling harder than I planned to or wanted to. You dont want to be 'gorilla-pulling' the machine. There will be no standard pulling pressure for you as you experiment with different roasts and grinds. Chopping cheddar is a good analogy for the minimum pressure pull, for me. I do not know anyone who will use two fingers, but I suppose there are some out there. I always have to have a hand on the boiler knob to prevent it from tipping. Another anti-tip tip: push the lever toward the machine as you push dowm; this will tend to prevent it from tipping forward, but have something stable behind it.

OK, my turn. You have to learn to use this machine, or you will get nowhere. Once you understand it, it will take you into delicious teritory. I will not represent myself to you as someone who has complete knowledge of this machine. The best learning tool is to buy a dual-channel digital thermometer and two inexpensive thermocoples-on-wires and tape one on the boiler and one on the group head, or secure them will a plastic cable tie. These are what my machine looks like:









Get your boiler up to temperature using whatever method is appropriate for your model, then give one or two pumps of the handle with the empty PF in place (basket tamped and ready) to warm the head and PF up to brew temperature. As the temperature rises, expect the outside of the group head to read hotter than you want the actual brew temp to be (ie, 95 if you are wanting 93)*. Gently place the basket into the PF. Raise the lever until just before it connects with the boiler water and hold it there while you lock the PF into place. (Know this lever position well!) Raise the lever all the way to let in the brew water. Some people give the lever a few micro-pumps (Fellini manuever) to get more water in and to purge some more air - others do not believe this helps. Pull as you wish, or can. To prevent the infamous PF 'sneeze', raise the lever all the up to the point before water comes in and hold it there while you unlock and remove the PF. Done. Clean your screen. Enjoy.

If you do not want to pay for the digital thermometer and probes, put the gauge on the boiler sightglass to monitor approximate boiler temperature and buy the higher range temperature-indicator strip from Orphan Espresso and stick it to the front of your group head. These will give you inexact, but reproducible indicators for you to work and learn by.

There are plently of articles here in the levers form section. Go there, then go to the top of the page and type in 'La Pavoni' or 'Europiccola' and read everything.

If you want more reading there is plenty more on Home-Barista.com.

There are other coffee sites, as well, but this and H-B seem to be the best for what you want.

Buckley

*As the temperature falls, the inverse is true - at least on my machine - the brew will be hotter than the outside temperature reading. This is important if I am making a second pull right away.


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## Delfi (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks for the great post.

as to 3) i meant i was struggling to get the brewed weight. I was wondering whether there was a limit in how much water can physically enter, thus limiting the output. I find my pucks to not be particularly puck like-more like wet sand. Seemingly im not getting the water to come through-too fine a grind perhaps?

re 5) forgive me here. How does adding a pressure valve tell you temperature of water? Is this PV= nrt stuff?

6) great tip.

4) my gf (who is tolerant, and as a guinea pig with better tastebuds than i) suggested this morning the coffee was bitter. Is this an indicator of overextraction? Therefore tweak grind finer to reduce the flow of water through? (Seems to contradict 3) above.

All good fun. Even if i fear my shots are of less consistent quality than using my Classic im enjoying the hands on 'workmanship'. Also although ive had some dog shots - ive had a couple of fluke god shots. Just need to tilt that needle!


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## Buckley (May 15, 2014)

Delfi,

Bitter might be overextracted, but bitter might be too hot. Remember, this is a machine that likes to get hot quickly. For me, bitter from hot occurs just before the point where tarry and burnt starts to appear.

If you think it is overextracted, stop pulling if you see blonding occur. Find Youtube videos on line to train your eye to see blonding.

When you say you are a bit light, are you referring to the volume or mouthfeel or lack of crema?

Twenty grams per pull is midrange in terms of the outputs, so I do not know if this is too much or too little for your grind and pull. When the GF tastes bitter, are you still pulling the shots characterized as light?

In my opinion, when asking for troubleshoot info with this machine and you are flying 'temperature blind' then here is what helps folks-at-a-distance to offer advice that might be of value:

1. Taste, body, crema

2. Lots of details about your steps.

3. Type of grinder

4. Volume of dose (+basket type & size), volume in cup

5. Resistance to pull, firm or spongy, duration of pull.

To advise you to down dose and grind finer is what I might do but people getting into LPs usually start out with grinding too fine and doing 'gorilla pulls', so I would need to know what pull and duration you are presently experiencing. The soggy pucks do suggest that they are being overground. So maybe just down dose (slightly!) with the same grind.

Here is a sample post from someone with LP questions that is a pretty good model for asking questions on line:

http://www.home-barista.com/levers/requesting-some-troubleshooting-advice-for-la-pavoni-europiccola-t30244.html

Regarding the water content question, let's go first to the pressure - temperature question:

You hit the nail on the head. PV=nrT. Taking boiler temperture is misleading because there is a lot of convection and turbulence in any boiler so temperature will vary depending upon where in the boiler you measure it, but the maximum temperture in the boiler will be a function of the pressure and the pressure is the same at all points inside the boiler. So, on one hand pressure is easier and more reliable to measure, on the other, it is less exact regarding what is coming through your supply pipe. It helps you, though, to know if you are purging your group head with water at .5 bar (.5 atm) = 113 degrees C or at .75 bar = 116 C (at sea level). I could not find a boiler pressure-temperature graph by searching this forum - perhaps I missed it - so here is one from another forum. I apologize to this community for constantly going outside of this forum.

http://www.home-barista.com/levers/relationship-between-water-temperature-and-boiler-pressure-on-pre-millenium-la-pavoni-t29122.html

Right now I assume you are temperature-blind with regard to your group temperature. A pressure gauge mod on the top of the boiler sight glass would tell you what your pressurestat is set at (unless you have the two-switch element model). Mods are available if you ask people on this forum or, if not, from Stefano's Espresso Care or Orphan Espresso web sites.

Some people wait an exact number of minutes from the start of OPV hiss (time interval adjusted for summer or winter room temperature) to know that their group head temperature has followed the boiler temperature by just the correct amount, then pull. Most people let the boiler come up to temperature either by relying on the OPV valve hiss or reading a gauge, then purge superheated water through the head with empty PF attached with cup(s) underneath to prewarm everything. They purge for an exact amount of time, down to the fraction of a second, then lock the full PF and pull. You can underwarm or overwarm the group in the first case by waiting for too little or too much time and in the second case by purging not enough or too much. Experience and bad shots will make one more deliberate and mindful in operating this machine. It helps to know if you are purging with water at 0.5 bar or 0.8 bar, to shorten the learning curve. Similarly, a liquid crystal temperature strip just above the bell of the group head will give you a brew chamber approximation, also to shorten the learning curve and to reduce the numer of bad shots needed to zero in on 'the zone'.

Water question:

Water in the cylinder is a function of boiler temperature and air. When you raise the lever, you suck air into the cylinder. With the PF in place, you suck air through the puck into the cylinder by raising the lever. This does not seem to bother the puck but it is also why some people raise the lever and hold it there before locking the PF on. When the lever is raised to the inlet point, superheated water and steam rushes into the cylinder and forces most of the air out of the return-to-boiler hole at the top of the cylinder (most groups with which I am familiar have this design, but some do not) and also forces air down through the wet-but-still-porous puck. If you have the pstat model of LP, this is why you want to purge the air out of the boiler after the pstat shuts off for the first time, so you do not introduce more air into the cylinder when you raise the lever. (If you have the two element model, the OPV will let the air out by the time you pull, or you can purge if you feel like it.) The steam in the cylinder rapidly cools and experiences a pressure drop, meaning it condenses on the wall of the cylinder, dropping the pressure even more and allowing more water to come into the cylinder. Residual air in the cylinder is compressible, like auto shock absorbers, and will feel 'spongy' on the pull. Water is incompressible and will feel firm. Some people like to pump or Fellini the lever at the top to move all of the air out of the top return port to reduce sponginess. Residual air will remain if your group cylinder is too hot and the steam does not condense as quickly to pull in as much additional water during the lever rise. Some people Fellini after pulling half-way, a 'pull-and-a-half' to infuse more water through but the most expert-sounding bloggers seem to avoid this maneuver. Reducing dose (puck volume) will increase water two ways, the space above the puck will be larger to accomodate more water and the puck will absorb less water (figure roughly 0.4 gm water per 1.0 gram puck).

I am glad that you are negotiating the learning curve with an air of exploration. It was overly frustrating for me; I constantly wanted to put my machine up for sale. Everything smoothed out for me when I put on my thermocouples.

For any disappointments, one must first be sure that the group is at the correct temperature. Only then can one do the "down dose-grind fine" "up dose-grind coarse" adjustments in order to find that sweet spot.

Buckley


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