# First timer needs advice with £600 budget.



## aaronmck (Apr 20, 2021)

Hi guys, I'm ready to buy my first espresso set up and would really appreciate some advice. I have no experience with making espresso at all.

I drink manly black coffee, mostly down to the fact that I intermittent fast but my wife enjoys latte and I do enjoy milky coffee during my eating window.

I have been looking at the Gaggia Classic Pro, the Lelit Anna, Rancilio Silva & the Bezerra Hobby. I would be quite happy to grind by hand and get myself an electric grinder some time in the future. My preference is to have PID which is swaying me towards the Lelit but am not sure of the drawbacks of the 57mm portafilter.

As much as this machine would be just for 2-4 shots a day for my wife and I. When we are able to have guests i would like to be able to do more comfortably if possible but not really a huge deal.

I'm more inclided to buy new but if second hand then would want to ensure parts and good amount of support was available.

In regards to hadn grinders I already have a Hario Skeleton Pro for pour over and aeropress coffee. Would this be ok for espresso?

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond if you do so.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Hi Aaron.

I recently purchased my first espresso machine (Rancilio Silvia V2 for £240 used). It seems to be a good machine but I have none to compare it to. It's not particularly sleek looking, the stainless is brushed and it's essentially a silver box. Not the worst looking either though... The coffee is good but I think you'd rather quickly want to add a PID to it, which is going to be in the region of £100 extra. I'm currently 'temperature surfing' with it and the coffee is decent but it would be nice to know the brew temperature is consistent and take another variable out of the whole process.

I think that realistically, you're going to have to put at least £150ish aside for a grinder. That's for a decent hand grinder, slightly more for an electric. I recently purchased an Eureka Mignon Crono for £180 which is probably the best grinder you will get in that price range *from new*. I too, started with a Hario Skerton and it just doesn't have enough adjustment to produce good espresso, you need 'stepless' grind adjustment. I completely underestimated the importance of a good grinder and spent the first month having to drink bad coffee until I saved enough for a grinder.

Your £600 budget would be better spent on good quality, second hand equipment. Any of the machines with PID already fitted (or fit one yourself) and an Eureka Mignon or similar. If you're likely to get into the latte art side of things, decent steam power is very important. Don't underestimate that aspect either.

A single boiler machine like the ones mentioned are going to struggle to make lots of coffees for a dinner party to be honest. If everyone was having black coffees then yes, but even still the boilers are small and take time to heat between shots. Then you have to let the boiler heat up to steam, at which point the coffee has sat and cooled down. I'm not saying it couldn't be done but it would be a chore.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@aaronmck Check out the classified, there is enough there to build a pretty good setup within a very reasonable budget. The JX pro Hand grinder will do espresso if you don't want to stretch to electric versions.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/

@MWJBwill probably know whether your current grinder will do for espresso or not.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

aaronmck said:


> In regards to hadn grinders I already have a Hario Skeleton Pro for pour over and aeropress coffee. Would this be ok for espresso?


 Whilst it is certainly possible to make espresso with a ceramic burr hand grinder, I wouldn't recommend them just because of the time it takes to grind a double dose, it can be soul destroying when dialling in. It can even be a chore for multiple cups with a steel burr grinder, but hand grinders like Feldgrind, Aergrind, 1zPresso JX Pro, Lido E will grind much faster.

Electric would be my preferred route.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I think grinding time is something you might accept to save money like I did initially, as it only took me 1 min to grind an 18g dose at an espresso(ish) grind setting. The problem I had with the skerton was that the grind adjustment isn't small enough. It was either choking the machine or gushing through. Even the grinds that were choking the machine still had massive boulders in there because there is so much play on the burrs, though I know the pro version added some stability to the burrs. I think pairing this with an entry level prosumer machine would be a complete waste of the machine. I'm sure that most newbies make the same mistake, as did I, but the grinder is just as important as the machine!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

newdent said:


> but the grinder is just as important as the machine!


 You can make espresso with grinders that are cheaper than the machines and the other way around. If you're brewing from whole bean, a grinder is essential...it's just difficult to quantify how this "importance" can be ranked.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

MWJB said:


> You can make espresso with grinders that are cheaper than the machines and the other way around. If you're brewing from whole bean, a grinder is essential...it's just difficult to quantify how this "importance" can be ranked.


 Oh right, I didn't mean 'as important' regarding how you should divide the budget, more that having one of the previously mentioned machines will be almost pointless if used with a hario skerton. I'm new to all of this but feel like it's something I can comment on being in the exact position only a month ago.

After researching grinders before buying my SJ and then Mignon (SJ too big), I feel £150 would get a decent used grinder capable of grinding for espresso. I know that most burr grinders can potentially grind much finer than required but it's the stepless adjustment that's important and you just don't get that capability on cheaper grinders (this info aimed at the OP of course). I know the porlex is a popular hand grinder that's technically capable of espresso (actually, I think it uses the same burr set as the skerton pro) but it's meant to be extremely hard to dial in. Just skip the headache and get a decent, entry level grinder imo.


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## 8144 (Oct 9, 2014)

My first 'proper' espresso set-up was the Sage pro grinder and Sage Duo Temp Pro (this machine has PID albeit non-adjustable) and I could get some great results with that set-up. For the money I think it's a decent starting point. The Lelit will most likely be a better machine but if you are having to compromise than do it on the machine over the grinder. A good grinder is probably the most important place to start.


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## aaronmck (Apr 20, 2021)

I've decided to get an electric grinder and have opted for the Eureka Mignon.

Now with regards the machine. I'm really swayed towards the Lelit Anna 2 with PID and pressure gauge. Can anyone advise a better option?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Nice one, which mignon did you go for?

The only unusual thing I can see regarding the Anna is the 57mm portafilter. Most of the more expensive machines use 58mm. How much difference that makes, I have no idea. Maybe use the search function or post in the lelit forum as you'll get more responses than in this section of the forum. Good luck


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## aaronmck (Apr 20, 2021)

I have gone for the Specalita and the Anna. Somewhat over budget but hoping the grinder will last until i upgrade the machine in a few years. Thanks for input @newdent.

Ive found myself a 57mm dosing cup, a knock box, some brushes and a 57mm tamper. Are there any other essentials to start me off. Will also be looking at some 57mm baskets too.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

aaronmck said:


> I have gone for the Specalita and the Anna. Somewhat over budget but hoping the grinder will last until i upgrade the machine in a few years. Thanks for input @newdent.
> 
> Ive found myself a 57mm dosing cup, a knock box, some brushes and a 57mm tamper. Are there any other essentials to start me off. Will also be looking at some 57mm baskets too.


 A set of scales, bottomless portafilter and some nice fresh coffee from one of our sponsors! 😁


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

aaronmck said:


> I have gone for the Specalita and the Anna. Somewhat over budget but hoping the grinder will last until i upgrade the machine in a few years. Thanks for input @newdent.
> 
> Ive found myself a 57mm dosing cup, a knock box, some brushes and a 57mm tamper. Are there any other essentials to start me off. Will also be looking at some 57mm baskets too.


 No problem and nice one. I see no reason why the mignon wouldn't be suitable, even after updating your machine. Burrs are easily replaced if worn.

I'd cancel the dosing cup and get a magnetic dosing funnel that sits on the basket (not inside). It's so messy without one, especially if you decide to stir before distributing and tamping. I got one for £8 on Amazon. You can then dose straight into the portafilter. That's just my preference, no problem with a dosing cup, just adds a step. You'll need scales that can take weights up to the weight of your portafilter plus coffee. Make sure the accuracy is to 0.1g. Oh and make sure the scales comfortable fit in your drip tray.

Not essential but depending on what size baskets come with your machine, you may want to get bigger ones. My silvia came with a 14g double, standard is 18g so I bought an 18g VST.

A £15 distribution tool from Amazon will help you get a flat surface to tamp on but maybe you'll find you're ok without one. I would class mine as essential but would muddle by without one if I absolutely had to.


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