# Can you really keep beans this long



## mlambton (Jul 30, 2017)

Im just starting to set out my equipment as a true novice at this coffee thing (though enthusiastic). My new Eurika Mignon arrived from BellaBarista this afternoon along with a complementary pack of gaslight expresso blend beans (very nice thank you Bella). Yesterday I picked up a pack of expresso blend beans at Aldi too (knowing i would probably waste a pack learning the art of grinding with my new EM) thinking they would be reasonable enough as a starter.

What surprised me was the contrast in the 'use by' dates of the two packs. Dont get me wrong, I'm no 'Aldi basher' and I shop there regularly for some of my shopping items as some of the product lines are a great quality and price. But really........ would their beans last 12 months compared to BellaBarista who advise only 2 months from roast date?

As for the tastes I have had a very frustrating afternoon trying to get a decent expresso with my combination so far:confused:


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I've said this a hundred times , you learn nothing by trying to make coffee with bad supermarket beans , apart from what bad coffee taste like, it's false economy....


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

You want fresh roasted consumed in under 12 weeks if stored correctly, obviously longer again if freezing.

Any longer is bs, fresh fresh fresh.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

forget best before, it tells you nothing......if the beans do not have a date roasted then do not buy them, otherwise you really are shooting in the dark. A bean freshly roasted, will need 3 to 10 days to become drinkable......after that stored correctly you will get another month with ease


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Supermarket beans are usually only good for seasoning of the burrs..get 2 kilos and run them through


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

I don't know where I stand with these. Certainly not supermarket beans, ordered and received within two days which I thought was good, however, as you can see there is no mention of roast date. This concerns me as I was under the impression that reputable bean sellers put the roast date on their packs. Am I missing something?


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

Something dosn't feel right about the info on their web site.... are they just re sellers with some printed bags ?


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

tAClue said:


> This concerns me as I was under the impression that reputable bean sellers put the roast date on their packs. Am I missing something?


They do and these guys would probably benefit from some feedback from you


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

tAClue said:


> I don't know where I stand with these. Certainly not supermarket beans, ordered and received within two days which I thought was good, however, as you can see there is no mention of roast date. This concerns me as I was under the impression that reputable bean sellers put the roast date on their packs. Am I missing something?


Given their website, info and the prices , i wouldn't expect anything more that what you have got . These will be commodity beans . That site was never gonna provide you with beans with a roast date on them. they don't have any details of the coffee other than " Columbian " because its not traceable , it will more than likely be bought by the pallet load to allow then to sell for £2.50 a bag...and could well be old greens at that.

You may not have bought them from a supermarket but it more than likely that some supermarket beans are higher quality greens that these potentially are.

A website , some blurb about roasting, and some fancy bags do not make for a specialty coffee.


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## mlambton (Jul 30, 2017)

Thanks for the views and opinions. Its an interesting discussion with some good perspectives. Its an interesting thought that the roast date is the most important one. I assume that the harvest date would also be pretty significant but possibly harder to certify particularly for roasters who have smaller throughputs...just a thought.

I think I will be focusing more on bags with roast dates from now on!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mlambton said:


> Thanks for the views and opinions. Its an interesting discussion with some good perspectives. Its an interesting thought that the roast date is the most important one. I assume that the harvest date would also be pretty significant but possibly harder to certify particularly for roasters who have smaller throughputs...just a thought.
> 
> I think I will be focusing more on bags with roast dates from now on!


Roast date

Some description and traceability of the beans ( farm , estate etc ) , these are things that go some way towards indicating decent coffee.

Price , if you are paying peanuts , so is the roaster...


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Perhaps someone can explain what im about to say better.

I thought i read that the bags if RAVE coffee that get sold on amazon are filled with some "gas" not normal regular air that would be in the bags that you would buy directly from RAVE. The gas allows the bags amazon sell on to have a longer shelf life.

Im sure i havent made this up.

Perhaps the brownbear coffee bags have the same longevity gas in them that RAVE use


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nitrogen flushed I think (illy etc I think do this too).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Perhaps someone can explain what im about to say better.
> 
> I thought i read that the bags if RAVE coffee that get sold on amazon are filled with some "gas" not normal regular air that would be in the bags that you would buy directly from RAVE. The gas allows the bags amazon sell on to have a longer shelf life.
> 
> ...


If you buy beans from Rave they will have been roasted that day or there about. If you buy the same beans from Amazon they are the same beans, but will be older and have had more time to degas, hence filling the bag. T he seller (Amazon) does not like date roasted, just best before. As Boots says, some of the bigger companies like Illy nitrogen flush the beans as they know they will stand on supermarket shelves for many moons


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I really think i read on the rave thread that rave themselves fill the bags that are destined for amazon with a speacial gas and not the normal air that is just knocking around.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I really think i read on the rave thread that rave themselves fill the bags that are destined for amazon with a speacial gas and not the normal air that is just knocking around.[/quote @ShortShots nitrogen flushed or not?


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

I used to buy bigger bags from, garraways, though roast date some times would of been quite a bit early for my liking. I now get from bella roastery as can post smaller 250g bags through letter box.

I then try not to fill hopper up to much, and use one of these to store beans in after opened bag:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bulletproof-Planetary-Design-Airscape-Cannister/dp/B00167XN14/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_201_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NTEBEFKFDSE4R1PTDDQ6


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Given their website, info and the prices , i wouldn't expect anything more that what you have got . These will be commodity beans . That site was never gonna provide you with beans with a roast date on them. they don't have any details of the coffee other than " Columbian " because its not traceable , it will more than likely be bought by the pallet load to allow then to sell for £2.50 a bag...and could well be old greens at that.
> 
> You may not have bought them from a supermarket but it more than likely that some supermarket beans are higher quality greens that these potentially are.
> 
> A website , some blurb about roasting, and some fancy bags do not make for a specialty coffee.


This is disappointing news. I bought from these people as it was given as a heads up with a code for 50% off. However given the discount I think it is not too bad a loss and one to chalk up to experience.

Onwards for the learning curve is steep and life is short, much to do.


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

But ....

Don't newly roasted beans give off CO2



> *How long does it take for beans to degas?*
> 
> Degassing varies depending on the type of coffee and roast. It therefore can take anywhere from 2 to 12 days until the coffee is ready to brew. Some rules of thumb:
> 
> ...


So the bag wot they go in has a tiny little valve that lets the (CO2 gas) out, this valve would also let any 'special' air out as well, so Huston we have a problem, maybe the beans that are sealed in gas tight bags with the 'special' (lol) air are not fresh out of the roaster but left on a shelf for a couple of weeks to degas,


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Roast date
> 
> Some description and traceability of the beans ( farm , estate etc ) , these are things that go some way towards indicating decent coffee.
> 
> Price , if you are paying peanuts , so is the roaster...


T


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

tAClue said:


> This is disappointing news. I bought from these people as it was given as a heads up with a code for 50% off. However given the discount I think it is not too bad a loss and one to chalk up to experience.
> 
> Onwards for the learning curve is steep and life is short, much to do.


Have a look on here at the Espresso roasts

http://jamesgourmetcoffee.com/shop-online/espresso-profile-coffees/

Couple of Caveats , i dont drink espresso at home , and its been ages since i drank any formula 6 blend .

The single origins ive had for filter have been knock out though , and James has been roasting for a number of years. At under £5 a bag for beans from a decent roaster , this might be a better alternative for you to try .

James tells you what is in each blend , the mix and some details can be found about the ingredient in each blend . This is what i look for from a roaster,

People don't in general sell stuff for a loss , at £2,50 a bag it indicates that quality of beans going into the coffee....


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

Our bags destined for Amazon prime (fulfilled by them)are all nitrogen flushed. Like dfk says, if you buy fulfilled by us then it's just good ole atmosphere but you'll get it fresher.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

What does nitrogen flushing entail?


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

As an aside.. Just got a couple of kilos from Rave packed in the one way valve bags

And a little note on the bottom of the invoice says



> For best results please allow your beans to rest for 7 days for filter
> 
> and for 10-12 days for espresso, pot roast


So the question arises, how the heck did they know we are having a pot roast tonight..... spooky or what.


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> What does nitrogen flushing entail?


The bags are placed in a machine unit that airtight seals and then vacuums all of the atmosphere out of the unit, then small nozzles shoot nitrogen into the bags up to a certain pressure before the bags are sealed. The machine then slowly depressurises and allows atmosphere into the unit allowing it to open. You are then left with bags full of nitrogen and beans. Repeat process hundreds of times a day....that's it







in simple layman's terms anyway


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

DaveP said:


> As an aside.. Just got a couple of kilos from Rave packed in the one way valve bags
> 
> And a little note on the bottom of the invoice says
> 
> So the question arises, how the heck did they know we are having a pot roast tonight..... spooky or what.


After reading this I had to double check our invoices.... but as an aside: We are watching....


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## MatthewBw (Sep 9, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> What does nitrogen flushing entail?


Most of our air is nitrogen anyway but this technique is used in all sorts of food to slow down them going off. Coffee in theory shouldnt need as much as say fresh veg or similar.

The theory is you are eliminating the Oxygen that would allow bacteria or mold to form, They rely on oxygen to grow so your food should last longer, and your shelf life is extended.


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Have a look on here at the Espresso roasts
> 
> http://jamesgourmetcoffee.com/shop-online/espresso-profile-coffees/
> 
> ...


Brown bear make great coffee for brewed, never tried for espresso, they are selling at 50% off because they're just starting up again, it's called a loss leader.

They sell without a roasted date because they use amazon to attract people to their brand I'm guessing. They sold on their first many moons ago.

you should try the beans before slagging the quality off I think.

It certainly isn't supermarket standard beans they sell.


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Given their website, info and the prices , i wouldn't expect anything more that what you have got . These will be commodity beans . That site was never gonna provide you with beans with a roast date on them. they don't have any details of the coffee other than " Columbian " because its not traceable , it will more than likely be bought by the pallet load to allow then to sell for £2.50 a bag...and could well be old greens at that.
> 
> You may not have bought them from a supermarket but it more than likely that some supermarket beans are higher quality greens that these potentially are.
> 
> A website , some blurb about roasting, and some fancy bags do not make for a specialty coffee.


as I said, a loss leader,

these are not supermarket quality beans, having tried them and used them regularly before they went out of business in 2015


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

tAClue said:


> This is disappointing news. I bought from these people as it was given as a heads up with a code for 50% off. However given the discount I think it is not too bad a loss and one to chalk up to experience.
> 
> Onwards for the learning curve is steep and life is short, much to do.


hi there,

which ones did did you get?

please try the beans before believing an opinion of someone who hasn't tried the beans.

I used brown bear a lot before they disappeared in 2015, I'm glad they are back.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> as I said, a loss leader,
> 
> these are not supermarket quality beans, having tried them and used them regularly before they went out of business in 2015


Loss leader or not , when a website can't differentiate the beans it sells to me other than by the country they are from , then that indicates to me , that they probably don't know. I could be wrong , it could be that's they want to market themselves , but I have seen enough of these sellers and reseller sites ( and tried their beans ) to spot those that can't deliver the quality that I personally look for in specialty coffee and those that don't.

Enjoy what you enjoy , but people will pick up on these roaster is good and cheap and it's worth qualifying whether they deliver roast date on beans etc, as it's what most of people look to as an indicator of quality .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> hi there,
> 
> which ones did did you get?
> 
> ...


That's fair comment , but ask em which wholesaler he gets his beans from and if they are traceable... ( farm origin etc ) .

Peace out.


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

I agree that roast date on the pack is an indicator of quality, as I cost, traceability etc, however to state that these most likely will be old beans and maybe not as good as supermarket beans is completely false, as I have stated, I have actually tried the beans, and did use them a lot before they went out of business.

the biggest indicator of quality is taste.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

"Brown Bear coffee is roasted by the best in the business, bringing out the ultimate flavour from our beans. This expertise makes for great tasting coffee."

Can you ask if they actually roast the beans themselves to please , as this is pretty vague marketing again .


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Why don't you ask them?

I'm not questioning their practice, just saying their product is very good


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> I agree that roast date on the pack is an indicator of quality, as I cost, traceability etc, however to state that these most likely will be old beans and maybe not as good as supermarket beans is completely false, as I have stated, I have actually tried the beans, and did use them a lot before they went out of business.
> 
> the biggest indicator of quality is taste.


Ok I will generalise.

Where i have questioned similar sites about where there bans come from , who they are bough , they invarable either cant tell me , or admit to buying by the ton of commodity coffee. Your right I do not know if Brown Bear do this , they may know exactly where the beans come from and the amazing farmers they refer to that they get their coffee from. Personally if this was the case id me making more of it . But again you are right this dissent mean any of the aspersion i cast are actually pertinent to Brown Bear

I really hope I am wrong , it would be great to find myself proven wrong, and that they just position themselves differently to other roasters .

Ill order a single origin myself and try it also.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok Ive ordered two bags " Blue Mountain " " Real Columbian " I suspect they are all roasted for espresso so il take em to my local cafe and get them made by some pros and brew a few to get some opinions . If you get any answer to the questions re , if they actually roast , or where their beans are from please let me know .


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Try the cub espresso, and the original blend.

As I have always stated I use this brewed in the aeropress and it is very good coffee.

Its also, at present, very very cheap, however it won't be for long.

I used single origin etc for my espresso machine, but for brewed I doubt you can buy better for its current price.


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok Ive ordered two bags " Blue Mountain " " Real Columbian " I suspect they are all roasted for espresso so il take em to my local cafe and get them made by some pros and brew a few to get some opinions . If you get any answer to the questions re , if they actually roast , or where their beans are from please let me know .


your gonna get a cafe to make them?

I wasnt keen on the Colombian one, not to say it was bad, but cub espresso and original are very nice.

I don't feel the need to ask them any questions, feel free to do so yourself


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> Try the cub espresso, and the original blend.
> 
> As I have always stated I use this brewed in the aeropress and it is very good coffee.
> 
> ...


Interestingly the bit that says single origin on their site , has no beans listed against it .. Could be a web error, or perhaps they can't actually guarantee those beans are single origin...

Ive order the ones that i think i actually might stand a chance of of liking ,

Ill judge it in whether it matches the notes . Plus there will be peopel who will know by looking , tasting and scoring whether it gets anywhere near specialty standards or not .

As i said , id like to be proven wrong . It makes me sad when people have to under value coffee to #2.50 to sell it , it does the industry no favours at all.


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

They are drumming up business again having gone under, they won't usually sell for that.

I wish you had had gone for the cub and original, but hey hoo, at least you're trying it. As I at try it brewed.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> They are drumming up business again having gone under, they won't usually sell for that.
> 
> I wish you had had gone for the cub and original, but hey hoo, at least you're trying it. As I at try it brewed.


I dont make espressos at home , Those tasting notes dont appeal to me .

Ill send some out to another couple of people to brew also , just to see if we are in he same ball park on thoughts . @Scotford has a good gob on him , so lets see what he thinks


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Yeah balls to it, I'll give em an objective rundown.

First thing I will say is that why no more in depth info? Or roast date? Even M&S do more that that on their own roasts.

Second, why on a current offer are there 2 year old reviews? If that's the same coffee they've been storing for that long it's baaaaad man. So so bad. Unless they've a deep freeze cryogenic chamber for storage.

@Apatche64 what's your affiliation with this company?


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Scotford said:


> Yeah balls to it, I'll give em an objective rundown.
> 
> First thing I will say is that why no more in depth info? Or roast date? Even M&S do more that that on their own roasts.
> 
> ...


Hey scotford,

dunno about roast date, guess it's cause they used to primarily sell on amazon, years and years ago.

2 year old reviews, they went out of business in 2015 and are relaunching, hence the 50% off.

affiliation, none, just like their coffee


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Apatche64 said:


> hi there,
> 
> which ones did did you get?
> 
> ...


Hi, I bought the breakfast blend and the new latin. Not tried yet as I'm working through a hopper of supermarket beans but will be giving them a go shortly. I hope they do taste better than supermarket beans they smell great. I am on a very steep learning curve and the general consensus on here seems to be that 'most' good bean sellers print the roast date on the bag so you can see my novice/uneducated concern.

Thanks for your input.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Apatche64 said:


> 2 year old reviews, they went out of business in 2015 and are relaunching, hence the 50% off.


Yeah. I get that. But why are the same coffees for sale again two years later? Fresh crop of generic job lot or stale greens that have been sat in some warehouse staling for two years?


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

tAClue said:


> Hi, I bought the breakfast blend and the new latin. Not tried yet as I'm working through a hopper of supermarket beans but will be giving them a go shortly. I hope they do taste better than supermarket beans they smell great. I am on a very steep learning curve and the general consensus on here seems to be that 'most' good bean sellers print the roast date on the bag so you can see my novice/uneducated concern.
> 
> Thanks for your input.


breakfast blend wasnt for me but I'm sure you'll like new Latin









they are definately loads loads better than supermarket beans so I think you'll be happy .

i agree on the roast date, but these are good


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Scotford said:


> Yeah. I get that. But why are the same coffees for sale again two years later? Fresh crop of generic job lot or stale greens that have been sat in some warehouse staling for two years?


I doubt they've been around two years lol.

Just taste them, see what you think.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Apatche64 said:


> I doubt they've been around two years lol.
> 
> Just taste them, see what you think.


Sigh.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

My order is on its way

.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> My order is on its way
> 
> .


good luck!


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Got around to trying the breakfast beans. Ground for espresso didn't like it much, nothing mild about the flavour atall, just bitter......

.......thought about what I had just done and I hadn't flushed (HX machine).

Have another go as you do, big flush.......what a difference. Mild with even sweetness at the bottom of my tiny cup.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> My order is on its way
> 
> .


#prayforbootsy

Looking forward to your thoughts!


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

take it you liked the beans, think you would have said if you didn't ...


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I've got some Brown Bear decaf. Made a flat white for my other half and she said it tasted bland.. Used 16g > 30g. Said it had hardly any flavour.. My local (to York) roasters have a decaf blend that knocks it for six. They were worth a try though I guess, even if it's just to satisfy a curiosity and cross them off a list of decafs to try/buy again.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> take it you liked the beans, think you would have said if you didn't ...


Tends to be the opposite for me, Usually i just wont recommend something if they are poor but since you asked They met my expectations as per my other posts in this thread. Just get what you pay for.But I'll post in my roasted Thread. I wouldn't recommend this roaster for anyone who has a vague interest in specialty coffee.

If you need something cheaper than you your local supermarket, that's Less fresh with less traceability of origin then sure. It will be months past roast date and generic seasonal beans .

That doesn't mean that you wont enjoy it ,I didnt at all but i am only oner person, if ordering I would not expect the same quality or freshness of product as say from any of the regular roasters on here. I would prefer to drink less coffee and pay more for higher quality, I don't need to have a bulk of coffee on for 4/5 drinks a day . I don't make espresso at home , and I don't feel the need to make coffee for anyone else part from myself .


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

So your saying these beans are less fresh than supermarket beans, wow.

months past roast date lol ...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> So your saying these beans are less fresh than supermarket beans, wow.
> 
> months past roast date lol ...


The ones i had are best guess months past roast date, they behave and taste like stale beans to me ( i was having to grind substantially diffently for pour over to get any timings over 3 minutes for a v60 ) .

I am gonna get a bag of something appealing at the supermarket next time to bench mark these against .

You asked me my opinion based on tasting the beans .

Good supermarket beans should have some notes on origin and where from, but i guess we will see when i go shopping. i asked brown bear politely for the origin and where they are sourced from , other than Columbia , no other answer was forthcoming .

I am not trying to denigrate your opinion , i was challenged not to offer an opinion until I had tried them. I tried them, given that i think they are not great I was gonna not pass judgement but seeing as you presumed that I had enjoyed them and wasn't posting to this effect then , I post my opinion .

It is no less valid than yours, but i can state with reasonable certainty these are not fresh . In the end dates matter for alot taste is king .

You enjoy them , keep buying em , I do not , I will not buy again.

Fresh versus Supermarket I dunno , it doesnt really matter for me , i don't think these are nitrogen flushed , I asked this again of the supplier , i got no answer. The beans extracted a flat , tasteless drink ( again IMHO only ).

I was having to grind so far off nomination grind for my v60 brews ( and again these are not light beans ) that I can only assume they lack freshness .


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

Fair enough, only tasted the cub espresso since ordering. Brown bear it seems is under new management so I don't know if they will be as good as before.

you have had a favourable review in this thread so they can't be as bad as you state.

They are certainly nice in an aeropress and are above the standard of beans you would buy in the supermarket.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> Fair enough, only tasted the cub espresso since ordering. Brown bear it seems is under new management so I don't know if they will be as good as before.
> 
> you have had a favourable review in this thread so they can't be as bad as you state.
> 
> They are certainly nice in an aeropress and are above the standard of beans you would buy in the supermarket.


Enjoy your coffee these aren't for me.

Few other reviews on here that aren't great either as well. Doesn't mean they areny as good as you think they are. All about personal preference.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I have posted my other thought on Brown Bear here ....

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?36140-Mrboots2u-12roasterschallenge


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Apatche64 said:


> So your saying these beans are less fresh than supermarket beans, wow.
> 
> months past roast date lol ...


Beans at sainsburys where beet before may 18 BTW so yep probably fresher than the stuff I got.


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