# Appliances available in the UK



## Django

Hi All, I'm struggling to find a domestic coffee roaster, akin to the iroast in size and price, in the UK. There seem to be a few oddities popping up here and there but more often than not they're out of stock, not to be replaced. Is the Gene Cafe the only domestic roaster that can actually be bought here? It's a bit out of my price range sadly.


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## 4085

You can still find the Iroast if you really want one. there is stock knocking around and they are often sold as new on ebay, but my advice would be save up a bit more and buy a Gene! From BB you will have a brand new machine with a 2 year warranty. And if you drink a bit, then every shot you pull you are saving money by the cost differential between buying

roasted beans and doing your own


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## The Systemic Kid

There's a link in Ebay forum sub section to a I-roast similar machine. Forum advertiser peelie72, based in Dubai, can provide a Behmor 1600 for £259 delivered.


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## The Systemic Kid

Forum advertiser for Behmor 1600 direct site link

http://www.givemecoffee.ae/info-on-Behmor-1600-to-UK-and-Europe//


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## Django

Guys, I'd love to get myself a Gene, or even a Behmor, but I'm a poor, poor student. I'll have a look at that iroast on ebay though. Are they half-decent, do you know?

Thanks


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## froggystyle

Sell your lever!


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## Django

Hahaha. Not a bad idea with the jip it's giving me!


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## The Systemic Kid

Django said:


> Guys, I'd love to get myself a Gene, or even a Behmor, but I'm a poor, poor student. I'll have a look at that iroast on ebay though. Are they half-decent, do you know?
> 
> Thanks


Wouldn't hold your breath but if it goes for peanuts - might be worth a punt just for the fun of it.


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## Django

I think I'll hold off for a while. Just got myself a popcorn maker!

I'll start a new thread soon with some photos. The first roast was quite fun!


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## billt

Heat gun / bread machine. Much better than the Gene and about 10% of the price. (Heat gun about £20, you can probably get hold of a failed bread machine for nothing; as long as the paddle still turns you chuck away the rest of it.)

Bought a Gene about 8 years ago and used it for a couple of years. You can't hear the cracks, you can't see the beans properly, you have very little control and it's not very reliable.

HG/BM, you hear all the cracks, you see the bean colour clearly and you can smell the beans as they roast and you can roast bigger loads with a suitable heat gun. You can easily add thermometry if you want to log roasts. If it breaks get a new one for a few quid.

Much, much better than the Gene and very affordable.


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## froggystyle

billt said:


> Heat gun / bread machine. Much better than the Gene and about 10% of the price. (Heat gun about £20, you can probably get hold of a failed bread machine for nothing; as long as the paddle still turns you chuck away the rest of it.)
> 
> Bought a Gene about 8 years ago and used it for a couple of years. You can't hear the cracks, you can't see the beans properly, you have very little control and it's not very reliable.
> 
> HG/BM, you hear all the cracks, you see the bean colour clearly and you can smell the beans as they roast and you can roast bigger loads with a suitable heat gun. You can easily add thermometry if you want to log roasts. If it breaks get a new one for a few quid.
> 
> Much, much better than the Gene and very affordable.


You sure about that?


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## The Systemic Kid

Think there are quite a few Gene owners on the forum who might not agree with your thoughts about the Gene roaster.

Be interesting to hear more about your heat gun/bread machine roaster. How do you keep control of the temp?


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## DavecUK

billt said:


> Heat gun / bread machine. Much better than the Gene and about 10% of the price. (Heat gun about £20, you can probably get hold of a failed bread machine for nothing; as long as the paddle still turns you chuck away the rest of it.)
> 
> Bought a Gene about 8 years ago and used it for a couple of years. You can't hear the cracks, you can't see the beans properly, you have very little control and it's not very reliable.
> 
> HG/BM, you hear all the cracks, you see the bean colour clearly and you can smell the beans as they roast and you can roast bigger loads with a suitable heat gun. You can easily add thermometry if you want to log roasts. If it breaks get a new one for a few quid.
> 
> Much, much better than the Gene and very affordable.


The 8 year old Genes were sold by a different retailer and had loads of problems. The Genes sold since by Bella Barista are extremely reliable, in fact one of the most reliable devices they sell. I don't think there have ever been any heating element failures on UK machines...or at least none I am aware of and 1000s have been sold in the last 6-7 years. it requires almost no maintenance, comes as standard with the better large chaff collector and roasts well, it roasts even better when modified. Doing the stage 1 and 2 mods doesn't even invalidate the 2 years warranty BB give the Gene!

Is it better than a Heat gun and bread maker....yes, lots. When modified it is in a completely different league.

Just thought i'd correct any misinformation.


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## Django

Do you mean a heat gun AND a bread machine, as a combo? That sounds mental! Ha! And fun too!


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## Django

DavecUK said:


> The 8 year old Genes were sold by a different retailer and had loads of problems. The Genes sold since by Bella Barista are extremely reliable, in fact one of the most reliable devices they sell. I don't think there have ever been any heating element failures on UK machines...or at least none I am aware of and 1000s have been sold in the last 6-7 years. it requires almost no maintenance, comes as standard with the better large chaff collector and roasts well, it roasts even better when modified. Doing the stage 1 and 2 mods doesn't even invalidate the 2 years warranty BB give the Gene!
> 
> Is it better than a Heat gun and bread maker....yes, lots. When modified it is in a completely different league.
> 
> Just thought i'd correct any misinformation.


Ohhh way to kill my dream of making cheap and tasty beans!


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## DavecUK

Django said:


> Ohhh way to kill my dream of making cheap and tasty beans!


 Heatgun and bread maker will turn em brown...tasty...I dunno. in the end I couldn't stand not having a larger roaster after selling my Toper 1kg, so went with the CBR1200 I was testing and glad I did. I originally thought that's a lot for a roaster, because prices have gone up as our economy has gone down (annoying). Luckily I had the luxury of using it for months and then of course finding it was great...bought it. Now my CBR-1200 is better than other ones, because it's mine. seriously though, you can spend a lot on this hobby and you do get improvements all the time. Some of them small in comparison to what you spend, others bigger.

Roasting though....there is a big difference when you step up to professional grade gear and conversely, relative "undrinkableness" (a new word) when you go below a certain level. The Vesuvius gives flavourplus and I think the flavourplus of a HGBM roast would be a toughie for me to drink now.

Gene is a good and well priced roaster....modified it becomes an excellent roaster. For the money about the minimum entry into reasonable home roasting. They must be pretty good, becuase you don't see many used units coming onto the market....and I know how many have been sold in the last 7 years. A couple of the guys at the Bella Barista Visit saw just half of one shipment in the storage area (I think they were pretty surprised at how many there were) and they are getting shipments of them about every 6 weeks!


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## ronsil

Recently a secondhand Hottop came up on ebay which appeared to have had very little use. It went for £300.

New they are available at circa £850.

A HT can simplify roasting & last many years. Its a well proven machine.

Bread machine - heat gun I think unless you are prepared to get deeply interested they will produce you 'hap hazard' results at best.

Nothing wrong with a Genecafe either.


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## billt

froggystyle said:


> You sure about that?


Yes, I am quite sure about that.


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## billt

The Systemic Kid said:


> Think there are quite a few Gene owners on the forum who might not agree with your thoughts about the Gene roaster.
> 
> Be interesting to hear more about your heat gun/bread machine roaster. How do you keep control of the temp?


Move the heat gun towards or away from the beans.


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## froggystyle

billt said:


> Yes, I am quite sure about that.


Would be interested to see some photos of your roasts?


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## billt

DavecUK said:


> The 8 year old Genes were sold by a different retailer and had loads of problems. The Genes sold since by Bella Barista are extremely reliable, in fact one of the most reliable devices they sell. I don't think there have ever been any heating element failures on UK machines...or at least none I am aware of and 1000s have been sold in the last 6-7 years. it requires almost no maintenance, comes as standard with the better large chaff collector and roasts well, it roasts even better when modified. Doing the stage 1 and 2 mods doesn't even invalidate the 2 years warranty BB give the Gene!
> 
> Is it better than a Heat gun and bread maker....yes, lots. When modified it is in a completely different league.
> 
> Just thought i'd correct any misinformation.


Well my Gene was unreliable, the heater failed and the rings that hold the chaff door on broke. As I couldn't find suitable replacements, and I didn't want to spend another £250 on a machine that lasted under 2 years I looked for a more affordable alternative.

As roasting coffee, like cooking, is a fairly simple process it can be accomplished satisfactorily with simple means. You have to pay attention, so you can't leave the machine to do its own thing but I produce results that (to my taste) are significantly better than the Gene.


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## welshrarebit

billt said:


> but I produce results that (to my taste) are significantly better than the Gene.


Would be very interested in some pictures of these roasts.


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## froggystyle

billt said:


> Well my Gene was unreliable


And that's what Dave says, they have vastly improved the machine since.


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## billt

Django said:


> Do you mean a heat gun AND a bread machine, as a combo? That sounds mental! Ha! And fun too!


Yes. The bread machine has all the controls and the element disabled and is just used to agitate the beans - it's a development of the even cheaper dog bowl / heat gun method were you put the beans in a stainless steel dog bowl and agitate them with a spoon.

I believe the method was developed by the Australians and they have sections about it on some of their forums.


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## billt

Home roasting is not really a very sensible thing to do. It won't save you any money (green beans from the likes of Hasbean are no cheaper than roasted beans once you take the weight loss into account) and it will cost a fortune if you buy any of the commercial machines. A few duff roasts and you are losing quite a lot of money.

I started because Hasbean Steve went on holiday and I ran out of decent roasted beans!, I thought that I could have a stock of greens and roast when necessary and I've just kept going out of habit.

Then there's the smell and mess. One disadvantage of the simple methods is that you have to roast outside otherwise you'll get chaff everywhere!


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## The Systemic Kid

Clearly, home roasting doesn't appeal to you. There are many reasons why members choose to home roast.

If you look at BB's fantastic value bulk buy overseen by DaveC, think the maths does actually stack up.


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## DavecUK

billt said:


> Home roasting is not really a very sensible thing to do. It won't save you any money (green beans from the likes of Hasbean are no cheaper than roasted beans once you take the weight loss into account) and it will cost a fortune if you buy any of the commercial machines. A few duff roasts and you are losing quite a lot of money.


I think the salient point there is where you buy your green beans from.....I can't believe the prices some vendors charge. I think you really got the wrong end of the stick about this home roasting lark. Yes you can save a lot of money, not only in the beans, but on postage. Your coffee is always fresh, you can roast expensive beans and have 10 or 20 different coffees on hand. you don't have to be precious about the coffee and will learn a lot more than simply buying roasted coffee. You also have the opportunity to roast them the way you want them roasted.

This develops and understanding of the coffee, the bean and the roast that you can't get any other way. I think that you may have had a bad experience once, but thiss doesn't mean you will again. Roasting well is not that hard, producing roasts you like that better than 50% of the online stuff, really isn't difficult. Making a great roast takes experience. Lastly there is nothing to beat the satisfaction of a roast that's "on point"....that said, I'm going to have some more of my fantastic Peruvian. Then on to my Nicaragualn Matagalpa and Domincan Barahona, followed by my Daterra and my Columbian. All roasted and waiting for me to drink them.

I gave mouse a quick 30 minute overview of the Gene and how to roast in it and I would bet money that he is roasting well and enjoying most/all of his roasts.....much bigger sense of achievement.


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## billt

This is the roast that I'm drinking at the moment. Bella barista greens.

Of course it doesn't tell you if it tastes good or not!

Yes, I do now buy my greens mainly from Bella Barista, as they are generally fairly affordable.

I've obviously not expressed myself clearly. I do roast my own beans, usually 2 roasts a week, probably 5-600 gms and have been doing so for the last 8 years. Can't imagine going back to buying roasted now. Yes, I do it because I can always have fresh beans of a variety that I choose without having to wait for roasters and deliveries.

My experience with the HG/BM is good. The Gene was OK when it worked, and no doubt it has been improved although I bet you still can't hear the cracks or see the beans properly!


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## The Systemic Kid

billt said:


> The Gene was OK when it worked, and no doubt it has been improved although I bet you still can't hear the cracks or see the beans properly!


Agree the Gene's motor does muffle hearing the cracks but if you put your ear near the chaff collector it's much easier. As for seeing the beans properly, DaveC has posted on this with a suggestion to use a halogen work light - I used something similar and found I could see clearly the beans changing colour.


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## Going banana's

billt said:


> green beans from the likes of Hasbean are no cheaper than roasted beans once you take the weight loss into account


ive often wondered why they keep their green price so high, i like alot of their stuff but im not going to buy it at their inflated prices. i get the feeling hasbean dont want people home roasting


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## Geordie Boy

I just think HB price greens so they make the same margin on a coffee whether it's roasted or sold as greens. Makes them expensive but from a business cost perspective I can see why you'd want to do it that way


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## Geordie Boy

> i get the feeling hasbean dont want people home roasting


Forgot to add, I don't think this is true. You might not be aware but HB were the European distributor for the Behmor roaster before the CE issues and were talking openly about waiting for it to be recertified so they can sell it again


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## froggystyle

Its a good mark up for a roaster to take 250g/1kg of green beans and stick them in a new bag to post out.

At the end of the day they are a business, and whilst every other roaster is selling them at that price, they will continue.

If any of you were a roaster would you drop your green prices for more sales, maybe, but then you need to rely on people coming to you and not others...

I have seen a price list from Falcon, they charge from £3/kg to £8/kg for green beans in 60kg bags, if there were more home roasters using the forum then i would suggest a bulk buy, but it would mean buying 180kg to get 3 beans, at £6/kg thats over £1000 which means you would need at least 10 buyers to make it feasible.


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## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> Its a good mark up for a roaster to take 250g/1kg of green beans and stick them in a new bag to post out.
> 
> At the end of the day they are a business, and whilst every other roaster is selling them at that price, they will continue.
> 
> If any of you were a roaster would you drop your green prices for more sales, maybe, but then you need to rely on people coming to you and not others...
> 
> I have seen a price list from Falcon, they charge from £3/kg to £8/kg for green beans in 60kg bags, if there were more home roasters using the forum then i would suggest a bulk buy, but it would mean buying 180kg to get 3 beans, at £6/kg thats over £1000 which means you would need at least 10 buyers to make it feasible.


When I first set up the "greens club" a not for profit bean distribution service for forum members (my own forum years ago), there were a few moves to stop me doing it......I never found out from who...but about 3 or 4 companies wanted it stopped. In the end I handed it over to Bella Barista for them to do as they were already handling distribution (for free). The reason they are so successful is the sheer bulk of green coffee they shift for home roasters at a sensible markup, especially for bulk buys. The buyers benefit from 9-10 different high quality coffees. I guess if people stopped using it, it would of course be lost and that would be a shame.

My belief is access to good quality green coffee at sensible prices has positively promoted home roasting in the UK, which was something I wanted to be a part of. I would hope there are now 1000s of people roasting who would not have been roasting otherwise, on purely economic grounds.


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## ronsil

DavecUK said:


> When I first set up the "greens club" a not for profit bean distribution service for forum members (my own forum years ago),


Not that many years ago Dave - I well remember the weighing out & distribution in pillowcases. Now that was a labour of love

I think we did it twice but what a load of work that was. A big sigh of relief when BB took over & a great job they've done ever since.


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## DavecUK

ronsil said:


> Not that many years ago Dave - I well remember the weighing out & distribution in pillowcases. Now that was a labour of love
> 
> I think we did it twice but what a load of work that was. A big sigh of relief when BB took over & a great job they've done ever since.


God yes, the pillowcases....I had forgotten!!


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## froggystyle

Dave, The tube thing that was being used at BB on Saturday to fill the bags, what are they called?

Would be interested in picking one up.


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## Geordie Boy

DavecUK said:


> My belief is access to good quality green coffee at sensible prices has positively promoted home roasting in the UK, which was something I wanted to be a part of. I would hope there are now 1000s of people roasting who would not have been roasting otherwise, on purely economic grounds.


A big thank you to you from me as it was the economic cost of the greens against the price of the roaster that got me to jump in


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## Geordie Boy

froggystyle said:


> Its a good mark up for a roaster to take 250g/1kg of green beans and stick them in a new bag to post out.


But what about the effort selecting the beans you want that work for your company and the way you roast? Then all your overheads associated with a business. The cost of physically roasting coffee (I.e. roaster depreciation, labour and fuel/electricity) is probably quite small (electricity costs for the Gene are pence when I calculated them).

Remember that the more greens a roaster sells of a particular bean then the more often he has to find replacements.

If you take the stand point that you sell greens at a price of roasted minus the cost of roasting them, then you would set the prices high.

Note I'm just trying to explain a different way that the price can be got at (I.e. normal price - cost of not doing a process, instead of cost price + markup)


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## DavecUK

froggystyle said:


> Dave, The tube thing that was being used at BB on Saturday to fill the bags, what are they called?
> 
> Would be interested in picking one up.


Dunno, Rodney got a few of them from Turkey...many years ago now. I think they are some sort of Hopper used in shops out there, they have like a number of them on a wall, much like drink optics in the UK. you could ask claudette if shee has a spare one to sell. The stand for it was something they made up.


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