# De'longi upgrade



## Patsy (Mar 6, 2016)

Hi I've just ordered a new Sage Barista Express it was on a cheap price from Amazon and should be here tomorrow, would you consider this an upgrade from a De'longi magnificatia plus bean to cup. Thanks I'm not sure what to expect.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Patsy said:


> ... Thanks I'm not sure what to expect.


But you ordered it...

They are generally considered to be a step up

As long as you are prepared to tamp, extract and steam the milk then that's okay

It doesn't do it for you like a bean to cup does


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

As mentioned it will be a bit more involved, and you may have a period of learning with it but...... yeah they are great machines. I have the duo temp which is the same apart from the built in grinder, and I love my little machine. If you need any help just shout up


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## Patsy (Mar 6, 2016)

Glenn said:


> But you ordered it...
> 
> They are generally considered to be a step up
> 
> ...


Yeah that's what I expected, I had to steam the milk on my De'longi but I could never get that really fluffy milk. I'm hoping this will be a little better.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Patsy said:


> Yeah that's what I expected, I had to steam the milk on my De'longi but I could never get that really fluffy milk. I'm hoping this will be a little better.


With a little bit of practice you can get really nice microfoam


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## Patsy (Mar 6, 2016)

I have had a few fun and games with my new Batista Express, I've just made a really nice double shot Cappuccino, the milk frother seems really good as well. I'm sure it needs fine tuning yet, but one thing I think is wrong my basket and grounds are full of water when I empty my portafilter I'm not sure why.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Patsy said:


> grounds are full of water when I empty my portafilter I'm not sure why.


Depends on a few factors so I have some questions.....

What basket are you using currently?

Are you weighing your dose of coffee grounds in the basket before extraction?

Are you weighing the shot as it extracts into your cup?

A soupy puck can be normal depending on the dose and type of coffee from what I've learnt from here, but it would also be useful to know the answers to the questions if possible


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## Patsy (Mar 6, 2016)

joey24dirt said:


> Depends on a few factors so I have some questions.....
> 
> What basket are you using currently?
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply, I and using the double wall basket I have not weighed my coffee and it is set on the lesser dose, I think it may be a little short on coffee perhaps.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There are a few thing you can do to help you get going with the BE before tuning things up once you have some experience. They differ from what more experienced people might suggest.

I assume that you are grinding beans. Set the grinder coarseness control to 8 - as suggested by them.

Now grind into the basket and tamp. Check the level of the tamped coffee with the razor tool they supply. If it's low add some more, if too high remove some. It can take a while to set the grind timer correctly and you may waste some grinds getting that correct. Probably a good place to start with that is the mark on the knob at 1 o'clock. If that is too little more can be added by pressing the portafilter in and holding it there. The timer activates if you just press in and release. My son initially pressed it in for too long and didn't understand why the timer didn't run. If your still pressing when the grinder actually starts the timer wont run and it will just grind more while your pressing.

Tamping - People suggest calibrating your arm on bathroom scales. The main idea with tamping is to compress the coffee grounds. Just try doing it as hard as you can. Too much is better than too little. Part of the end of the tamper is silver - that matches the depth of the razor tool and with a bit of practice can also be used to gauge how much coffee should be in. Check how hard you can press - if you happen to be able to press well over say 20kg you are going to have to control yourself a bit.

Next comes running the shot. If you have messed with the shot timer reset it to the defaults. Run the shot and watch the pressure gauge and the flow of coffee coming out of the portafilter. You want the needle on the guage to reach the vertical position or even go some way past that. If it doesn't reach the vertical position the grind needs to be set finer so try 7 and etc until it's in that range. This will mean resetting the grind timer. It will take longer to grind the same amount as the grind is made finer.

A bit more advanced. Back to the pressure gauge again. When you run a shot the pump runs and the gauge doesn't move, then it does move to say 9 o'clock for a period and then goes on to what ever the maximum reading happens to be. For maximum extraction little or no coffee will run out until the gauge actually shows the first rise. Compared with above that requires a finer grind. At this point really though you should have some scales so that you can determine how much coffee to grind in the future, what to set the grinding too and how the shot relates to the taste you are after. If you get to a situation where no coffee comes out until the first pressure rise has really started the max pressure that's applied later will probably be over the espresso range shown on the gauge or very close to the end. Don't worry about that if the taste you get suites you. If too strong their are 2 alternatives, slightly less coffee which will bring the pressure readings down or a coarser grind. Small changes can make a big difference.

This all applies to the single wall unpressurised filter baskets. There is little point in using the pressurised dual wall baskets when people are grinding their own beans. In fact the pressurised baskets will stop people from setting the machine up correctly. The dual wall are for preground and go some way to taking out grinding fineness variations. Not that much in practice. Once you have achieved a decent set up with single wall it's interesting to see what happens if the same grind etc is put into a dual wall.

John

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## Patsy (Mar 6, 2016)

ajohn said:


> There are a few thing you can do to help you get going with the BE before tuning things up once you have some experience. They differ from what more experienced people might suggest.
> 
> I assume that you are grinding beans. Set the grinder coarseness control to 8 - as suggested by them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your in-depth tutorial, it's helped me a lot I was getting very high pressure readings at first so I went back to the dual wall baskets, I figured that just about the 3 o'clock setting was right for the grinder giving me about the right depth of coffee after tamping that if practiced on the bathroom scale like you said. Then I started using the single wall basket and backed my grind off to 10 that was now to low pressure so now I've worked up to 7 and it's kinda going to about 10 o'clock on the gauge. So that's where I am at the moment.

I really like this machine a lot and keep it spotless and topped up with water.

The coffees I'm using at the moment is Monsoon Malabar and you can definitely taste a big change when the shots are getting better. I usually drink Cappuccino and frother is just right for me not to fast but faster than my De'longi and makes a nice foam giving me a little time to get it right. It's funny you mentioned your son pressing the portafilter in the grinder I did exactly the same thing and coffee grains went all over. I suppose if there's a con to this machine is a little messy with the grinder grains, I now put a cloth or small plate under when I grind just to catch the stay grains that fall out.

I think when they are new they just take a little time to be more consistent with there settings, like a running period.

I'll have to next check your more advanced setting part, when I next make a coffee thanks so much for your help, Cheers


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I just mentioned what I do with monsooned malabar here

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?36697-Sage-Barista-Express-beginner-questions&p=543627#post543627

Some of that isn't "conventional" though. Personally I feel that the taste that I like is more important than convention. On the other hand I'm pretty sure I have managed to get as much taste out of the bean as any one could get.







What I do with that taste is up to me. I've done the same sort of thing with other beans but will need to revisit some. Using the double button on a single started when we were using up pregound, It tended to make the drinks smoother. With fresh roasted it's tended to make the drink stronger probably because the infusion stage is longer and the excess that comes out doesn't matter because I'll be adding a lot of water. I doubt if it would matter that much on milk based either really.








I've probably run nearly 1.5kg of it through the machine now. Not much to go with the current dark roast and then it's the medium dark again. I suspect long term I'll stick with the dark. Not all suppliers provide it like that. Might be because it's more difficult to roast. The beans go oily and shiny and too much roasting can burn that off.

The bean has shown me that things need careful control to keep the taste the same on every shot. In my case I don't drink milk based drinks at all. Just black with a lot of water and a small amount of milk. More than I would at Costa etc. I suspect I would be cussing Sage for not providing a middle sized basket with this bean if I did fancy a milk based drink. The double might be too big. I'll have to give it a try and see.

John

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## Patsy (Mar 6, 2016)

I am really enjoying my new Batista I just wondered does anyone use the program button I've just used default settings ?


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