# Daterras are coming



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Thought I would give you guys an early heads up of a special, the Vacuum packed foil wrapped Daterras are coming! For those that know these pulped natural green beans come in 24.2kg boxes containing 2 vac packed foil bags, not the usual 69kg burlap sacks. I have been waiting for ages for some nice Daterras and not seen any on the listings, I phoned to ask, because I wanted some specially for myself and they should be around about now. Although not listed, stocks had arrived. What was happening (and I suspected this), is they were all being sold out before they had the chance to go onto the trade listings. this often happens with the really nice coffees, they get hoovered up before I get a chance to buy them

4 types (these are what the trader called them), but i know them by different names:

Daterra Sweet

Daterra Bourbon

Daterra Bourbon Sweet

Daterra Bourbon Yellow

Great on their own and although it hurts to do it, super excellent to blend with.

BB will have them soon and I don't know how they are going to sell them, hopefully coffee club type thing...*.however, there won't be that much available*. I'm having 1 x 24.2kg of Daterra Sweet and I might even go for a second bourbon pack...cos I want it. Even if you have had a buy recently, I recommend you get some of this and get at least 2kg each of a bourbon and the sweet type. Then single origin, but try as a base for a blend as well. if you have never tried Daterra...then you should, no matter how much coffee you have in storage.....just remember as a pulped natural, don't let the beans scorch or get too hot during the roast as it ruins some of those extra flavours you get as a by product of the pulped natural process....better to take a little longer than a little hotter!

if you want to know more about Daterra use the link below

http://www.cornerofthecafe.com/buzz-killer-espresso-brazil-daterra-sweet-collection/

http://www.sweetmarias.com/daterra/daterra.html

P.S Just to clarify with the coffee coming 2 bags of 12.1kg each per box, if you can, buy a 12.1 kg bag, because if left foil wrapped it's good for 3 years and they say improves with age. of course once you open it, perhaps 6-12 months to use it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up Dave. Will Bb just be selling it as Green or do you think they will trust their roaster to have a go!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Daterras are lovely blended with a dark roast Monsooned Malabar.

Intense sweet earthy flavour.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Cheers Dave. Will have to make some room for these


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Thanks for the heads up Dave. Will Bb just be selling it as Green or do you think they will trust their roaster to have a go!


I am sure they will only sell it as a green...quantities are so limited. Also your average commercial roaster never buys this sort of stuff to roast and sell, only the specialty boys like Hasbean, Square Mile and the like as these foil packed coffees are the speciality stuff, reserves and the like. I think Roasted you would be looking at as much as £7 to £8 per 250g. Don't confuse these with the cheaper Daterra dold in large 69kg burlap sacks.

I've even decided to go with 2x 12.1kg of sweet and I'm gonna have 2 more 12.1 kg foil bags from 2 of the other 3 coffees. If I keep in the foil they're good for 3 years, so I will definitely get through them all.



ronsil said:


> Daterras are lovely blended with a dark roast Monsooned Malabar.
> 
> Intense sweet earthy flavour.


Your so right, it's funny how theres not so much monsooned coffee around now, apparently tastes have changed and it's being sold without monsooning. I did put a sack in the order some time ago and must remember to put some in the next bulk coffee order. (ties knot in hanky). the problem for me is I can usually go down the road with a pillowcase to a localish roaster I know and fill it with Monsooned Malabar whenever I need some and he doesn't usually charge me....so I have little incentive <lol>..but I have also run out. It's a bit like OBJ, unfortunately there is so little call for OBJ, that I never order it, to be fair Ron, it's probably only popular with a few people like you and me....and other ex smokers, I would imagine.</lol>


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> ....and other ex smokers, I would imagine.


....errrr not with you on that one!. I've never ever smoked in my life:angel:


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ronsil said:


> ....errrr not with you on that one!. I've never ever smoked in my life:angel:


My bad...who on earth was i thinking of?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just a heads up, received the latest report from Daterra farms. it doesn't affect the current batch I have ordered, but in future crops to this time next year 2015, supplies will potentially be affected. *When you read note that Daterra has strategies to mitigate this, but crops and bean sizes will be smaller. The stuff I ordered is produced and packed using the Penta system, so is good for 3 years if unopened.* It's why I went for the extra 24.2 kg (I'm getting 2 lots). This way I personally won't have to worry about Brazilians until after all this is out of the way. I had heard there was a problem and this report confirms it.

However, Daterra aside, I'm expecting all coffees from Brazil to have cup quality affected, in fact the smaller growers are likely to be hit worst by list as they don't have much ability to counteract the problem. So you might see a little less Brazilians next year in the bulk buys, unless i can be assured of quality. Quality issues are why I don't and have not ordered any Sumatra Mahndeling for a long time, just not finding it to be of great quality at the moment..

hope you find it interesting

The weather conditions have been a major concern for all Brazilian coffee producers. *During this time of the year the metabolism of the coffee trees works intensively, towards the development of the beans inside the fruit and the growth of the internodes *in the branches, which is the part between two joints of the branch, where the coffee flowers will blossom in September and become the cherries later on. In order for all these natural processes to happen, substantial amounts of rain are needed. *This year, however, those volumes were much lower and temperatures higher than within the past years. *Therefore damages will be noticed in the developing crop, which begins harvesting in May, and will extend to the next crop in 2015.

*
Beyond the losses in volume, quality may also be affected. *The high temperatures combined with the water shortage cause stress on the plants. The stressed trees result in the production of phenols, which can bring an unpleasant cupping profile to the beans.

*Fortunately the situation at Daterra is more favourable than other areas of production. *The rainfall in January was not bad, between 150 to 270mm. In February the levels were around 90mm, which is lower than expected, but still the plantations presented a good growth and so far a fair development of the beans. We anticipate that the lower than normal rain will result in a smaller overall crop and small bean size.

*In order to mitigate issues that may result from natural adverse conditions, during the last 10 years, Daterra has applied many techniques to its production, from the farming procedures to the processing of the beans, such as irrigation, the UNIPAC system and the usage of electronic machines to insure we meet our quality and delivery standards. *


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

OK an update, because you will need to be quick...I know they are in, even though not on the web. The coffees are


Daterra Sweet

Daterra Sweet Yellow

Daterra Bourbon Collection

Daterra Bourbon Yellow


Now these are not cheap coffees, but definitely worth it. I've already snagged 50kg of it in a selection, due to come next week







. It comes in 12.1kg vacuum packed bags, it's called the Penta packing system, if you want to look it up. The coffee can keep for 3 years if the bag is unopened and once opened best used in about 1 year, you can take longer, but with coffee of this ilk, you loose nuances. I would strongly advise you buy unopened foil packs and then open them once you want to start roasting them. I have advised BB to sell them as such and not to bag them all up in 2kg bags. Only to do that as people want smaller amounts..

I've never posted about the coffees like this before, but it's really hard to get hold of them as they sell out almost instantly. I found out when they were still "off list" with the wholesaler, in fact they never came on list and already sold out I believe. You have also seen the weather report above, which is why these make sense now, because the quality of future crops are going to be affected, right to supplies covering late 2015. This crop is unaffected. Also there is Daterra and Daterra...the cheaper grade comes in large 69kg burlap sacks and costs nearly 3 times less than this stuff. Also when you get a really good Brazil, wow, one year when I used to run the greens club (in the first year), we had a Brazil Fazenda Rainha Yellow Bourbon that was fabulous, I ordered it again and again for 4 years, unfortunately, that one years superb quality was never equalled, not even close.

So as I have said, if you can buy em as an unopened foil bag, then you got 3 years to decide when to use them (it is even said that they improve with keeping, but not sure I believe that). If your going to have 2, try for a Daterra Sweet (or Sweet Yellow) and Daterra Bourbon (Bourbon Yellow).


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> So as I have said, if you can buy em as an unopened foil bag, then you got 3 years to decide when to use them (it is even said that they improve with keeping, but not sure I believe that). If your going to have 2, try for a Daterra Sweet (or Sweet Yellow) and Daterra Bourbon (Bourbon Yellow).


Thanks Dave any idea on pricing per 12.1kg per pack? I take it BB would be where I can purchase them from when in stock?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GS11 said:


> Thanks Dave any idea on pricing per 12.1kg per pack? I take it BB would be where I can purchase them from when in stock?


I don't I am afraid, they will be more than a normal Brazilian for sure, but I think their prices are normally pretty keen for the bulk buys, the % mark up is quite small....and they usually sell out of 2 tons of green coffee in around 48hrs. Yeah I should have said it's Bella Barista, I only select the coffees for them, so have nothing to do with the pricing....then often I'll cherry pick from a selection. The main reason these are ordered is I really wanted some for myself.

Of course if they have to muck around bagging it into 2kg packs, it's going to cost more that way and it's criminal really to break down those penta packs. I can't remember for sure, but I think there is less than 50 x 12.1kg penta packs available in total (not of each type), it's not a lot compared to a normal bulk buy!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

The Daterras are available at BB now. If you try to order on the website, as the order is on the limit of BB's shipping weight, you may get a shipping cost of £18.99 added to your order - ouch!! So ring BB and do the order by phone to bring shipping costs down to £5.99 for 3-5 day delivery or £7.99 for next day. As always, great service from BB.

Thanks again to DavecUK for the head's up on these beans.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

25kg Daterra green beans

View attachment 6222


Thanks to DaveC for making this happen.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well just a quick warning, the Daterras almost all gone all sold as Penta packs and unopened 1/2 penta packs!

If you are thinking about it and want any...best order, because I think by early next week, nothing will be left. It's very good in one respect, it means I can continue to look at high quality offerings when they become available.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Daterra Bourbon Collection - I roasted these 11 days ago now and they are tasting really good. I have 1 regret, that I started on them about day 3....I wish I had waited until day 8. However, you gotta take one for the team...so I know for next time.

I did a number of roasts, the roast level was medium, but next time I would take them just a tad darker, they're fine, but possibly could be improved further, don't know. it would only be another 15-20s in the roaster and need a little heat, just not too much. I still expect the beans to keep improving before plateauing in a few days, but I don't really have much roasted left. I have not blended them yet...not sure I'f I can bring myself to blend with them, but If I did, it would be with something like a Sumatran at around 30%. Also don't be fooled by what you paid, these are great coffees that you would pay up to 300% more for as green unroasted on most sites.

So when you roast, resist, the temptation to crack em for at least 6 days and 8 if you can. Which means even if I roast em again Tomorrow, I have to wait at until next Tuesday!


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I don't own a roaster but would love to try these beans.

I don't suppose anyone would let go of some of these for educational purposes?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Milanski said:


> I don't own a roaster but would love to try these beans.
> 
> I don't suppose anyone would let go of some of these for educational purposes?


You have to pay for an education....


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm not the type to expect something for nothing!


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> Daterra Bourbon Collection!


Hi Dave what roaster were you using with the Daterra and any chance of a posting up picture of your roasted beans?

Cheers


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## MellowCat (Jun 7, 2013)

Any suggestions what to do with the opened bag of 12 kg greens?

Are we re-packing into smaller plastic bags at 2kg each, for example?

I took your point Dave that they should keep up to 3 years if unopened, but not sure how long before i open the second bag out of curiosity.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Wouldn't recommend plastic bags Penta bag opened. I use pillow cases - breathable.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I always use pillow cases stacked in perforated plastic boxes (no lids) for storage green beans


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GS11 said:


> Hi Dave what roaster were you using with the Daterra and any chance of a posting up picture of your roasted beans?
> 
> Cheers


Daterra Bourbon Collection. This is the sort of colour to aim for (well for my roaster anyway), the chaff crack should be coffee cream coloured, the roast should not be oily and my beans were showing no oil at 11 days. They might be very fractionally lighter than actually shown, it's difficult and the photo was taken under 2700K COB LEDs. I am going to try the same temps, but another 15-20s in the roaster. Don't worry if the roast is a little uneven as this can happen with these pulped naturals. The crema looks like this, under same lighting. Extracted within a range of 93-95C is OK and the coffee is quite sweet, notes of chocolate, raisin and something reminiscent of cherry. Drink before day 5 and it's very bright, mellowing out after day 5, still drinking well at day 11 and no signs of going downhill yet. I roasted it in the CBR-1200. I will be roasting it again tomorrow, I have a few regular people I share my roasts with, who want some more....so I'll probably pump out around 4 or 5kg of it.









*I found 2 ends of the spectrum for this coffee on the web below*

This one I found on the web from a commercial roaster is probably a bit too dark...I presume it was pretty dark because a flash must have been used and it's really oily. Not sure what this would taste like? The one on the right was a little on the light side from another commercial roaster. I presume this would have some acidic, dusty and slightly nutty notes. Interestingly some of the beans in the lighter roast actually have quite a dark chaff line. Possibly they were roasted quite rapidly to this level...I'm not sure.









As for packing guys, not sure, my 12kg of penta packed Bourbon will only be 4kg by the end of tomorrow, so for me it's a non issue, I just fold it over and clip it up in it's foil pack.

P.S. None of the commercial roast photos was from a UK roaster.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks DaveC roasted beans are looking very nice.


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

ive never tried daterra's, do they taste that much different/better to any other brazil?

ive read opinions ranging from great to boring.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

> ive never tried daterra's, do they taste that much different/better to any other brazil?
> 
> ive read opinions ranging from great to boring.


Well I think they do....but only you can judge this by trying them. Unfortunately, I don't think there is any left as a Green Bean. Where are you based and how to you prepare your coffee. Opinions are like hands (I know what you thought I was going to say), everyone has them.

If your near me I can sell you a bag and you can try it....I need to roast again anyway. If you want it though you have to come and collect it....then you can try it. At the moment I am roasting the *Daterra Bourbon Collection* and I have roasted more than half of the Penta pack I have. so there is only 4-5kg left. if you want to try roasting it yourself, then I can let sell you a Kilo of green . I cant to less because I've a 1kg roaster and don't want to be left with 700g.

I am in Byfleet in Surrey

Note: Theres Daterra and Daterra....the ones we are talking about are pretty much twice the price of the usual standard Daterra offering in the green....and come in special packaging...So the opinions you have read, need to be in the correct context and comparing apples with apples.


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

thanks, unfortunately i live too far away (kent) otherwise i would have had a kilo of green.

i would have tried a kilo from bb but the 12kg packs were just too much in price and quantity for me.

i see quite a few places have daterras, im assuming the non-penta beans. i was temped to try them but perhaps those are the bland tasting ones.

i dont think it will live up to the Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira from hasbean which is now all gone.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

> i dont think it will live up to the Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira from hasbean which is now all gone.


Really, why do you think that.....they might be better, they might not, you can't possibly know...most strange that you think this?


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

just an assumption from what ive read that the non-penta packed dets would be more like a commercial grade fairly standard good brazilian rather than a standout lot like the Cachoeira.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

> just an assumption from what ive read that the non-penta packed dets would be more like a commercial grade fairly standard good brazilian rather than a standout lot like the Cachoeira.


Assumptions are difficult when it comes to coffee, you can never tell. You can do your best to buy well, but sometimes it doesn't work out. Then you can get a cheap coffee that turns out to be a hidden gem. About 6 years ago I got a Fazenda Rainha Yellow bourbon, it was reasonably piced green lot...in the cup though it was stunning, for years I repeat bought it, but that 1 years stunning coffee was never repeated...just lucky. crops can change from year to year. I cannot say (no one can) how the coffee your talking about compares with others, because until you do the comparison, you cannot know.

All the roasters do what they do, in different ways, on different roasters with different coffees....theres a lot that can happen to coffee on it's journey from green to bag. The better the starting product, the better the chance you end up with something nice. Price is an indicator, that is all, but it does not dictate absolute quality. one would question whether Kona, JBM or Civet cat crap is worth the money, it's certainly expensive, but it doesn't make it good. Same for coffee from some difficult places, price might simply reflect limited supply. Equally conditions may have been perfect and some of the very large farms could have had an excellent quality crop....better than usual.

The key thing is, if you buy coffee from one place and you like it...stick with it (recommend them to other people)....BUT, it's always worth a quick exploration now and again just to check what's happening elsewhere. It's a business relationship, not a marriage.


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

yes and i suppose by the time its got to retail stage in a decent shop the best coffee's have hopefully been filtered out and selected by a chain of discerning wholesale buyers, which makes like easier.

ive ordered a kilo of Deterra Sweet Bourbon from winchester coffee roasters out of curiosity, it probably wont be the penta packed stuff (...i wish bb had split some of theirs in to 1 or 2 kg) but i can live with it being boring if it turns out to be that.


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## MellowCat (Jun 7, 2013)

these are proving to be a little interesting - Dave you said 227C - didn't mean 237C did you?

I didnt think i could manage a rolling first crack at that low a temp, but I tried, couldn't hear any crack very well so went on smoke quality.

The first batch (before this advice) looked scorched and tasted it, the second batch went too dark on account of other distractions.

These roasts were kept to 227-233 on the unmodified Gene, looking uneven compared to Square Mile roasted ethiopian bonga (on the left), a _very_ light roast from them. They are also natural processed, but not sure the distinctions between ethiopian and brazillian natural process.

Still got the huge nuttiness from the first tries last week, along with caramel and milk chocolate, lovely with milk. This is the 'sweet collection' pack, have yet to open up the bourbon yellow


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

I missed out on these I think, was interested by the sweet collection, do you know when they are likely to be in stock again?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MellowCat said:


> these are proving to be a little interesting - Dave you said 227C - didn't mean 237C did you?


Oops! I was talking to someone about Monsooned Malabar, which would be 227...yes 237...sorry.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

cracked_bean said:


> I missed out on these I think, was interested by the sweet collection, do you know when they are likely to be in stock again?


Well the weather conditions won't affect the Daterras as much as other Brazilians...but around about April 2015...IF, I can get my hands on them before they sell out. They are normally all gone "off book", so never even make the listings. I only found out by luck when I was enquiring about something else. I asked when they would get some in (because this is about the time) and they said they had just come in...i reserved and I think they're all sold out now. Bella Barista might still have some of the Bourbon Collection left, if they're stock system is accurate....they might not?

The Bourbon Collection is very good...I must admit though I bought about 50kg across 3 types.. and I did go for 2 packs of the sweet. I regret not not going to the Sweet yellow as well.

So you could try for 12.1 kg of Bourbon Collection or wait a year and see if I get lucky again. In fact when i go to Bella Barista for the open day...if they have any Bourbon collection left (which I doubt) I will probably buy any Penta Packs remaining.


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> The Bourbon Collection is very good...I must admit though I bought about 50kg across 3 types.. and I did go for 2 packs of the sweet. I regret not not going to the Sweet yellow as well.


how does the bourbon collection compare to the sweet collection and sweet yellow?

no-doubt the bourbon collection is good but im guessing its the last one to sell as most people would have a preference for the others if theyre going to spend that much and theyre described specifically as sweet and the collection isnt.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

> how does the bourbon collection compare to the sweet collection and sweet yellow?
> 
> no-doubt the bourbon collection is good but im guessing its the last one to sell as most people would have a preference for the others if theyre going to spend that much and theyre described specifically as sweet and the collection isnt.


The Bourbon collection will be a collection of red and yellow bourbon of different varieties....it's sweet enough, don't worry about that.....I just fancied double the amount of sweet. Also the guys who share my roasts all like it, as do I. I think if your really worried, as it's a significant expenditure....then simply wait until April 2015 and I'll be trying to get more, if I can get first in line before the other Vultures that hoover it up.

This is what we all think it tastes like: Sweet, good body, Bright, Chocolate body with Raisin and cherry notes

I didn't get any Daterra Sweet yellow, nothing sinister, it's because I had already spent well over £300 + postage...but yeah, I would have liked some as well....but I have to draw the line somewhere.


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

ive been drinking the daterra from winchester coffee roasters over the last few days and i asked them exactly what it was and they said its the pentapacked bourbon collection (although at £14/kg after postage).

ive been pretty impressed by it; id say its quite chocolatey and more balanced and richer than the rwandan red bourbon from rave and coffeecompass ive had lately, so ive ordered the 12kg from bb.

i wish bb would put together a sample pack of a few hundred grams of each offering for the big lots like this, perhaps at around£12/kg, so you could have a try of them before you buy as i dont think i would have committed to the big lot if i hadnt tried it from winchester first.

...at less than £9/kg something that always makes me feel better is thinking about how few tins of crappy illy coffee you'ld get in the supermarket now its up to £26/kg


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Out of interest, what are you roasting with Going bananas?

I've found the Daterras to be excellent - very tasty - just roasted my first few batches last week and have started sampling them this week. Blended some with some dark roasted MM and it's superb.


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

just bread machine/heat gun with a lid on. simple set-up but imo the results are better than local roasters using (relatively) cheap commercial roasters.

the dats seem to take both city+ and full city roast levels well. no asheyness at full city but definitely more chocolatey at that darker roast after theyve had a few days rest.

i wasnt too keen to wait til next year for the next batch if they think theyll be affected with the phenol/medicinal tasting 'rio flavour'.

the mm blend is a classic, must try it one day, nearest thing ive got at the moment is jagong village but i like that just by itself.


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## leftism (Jan 5, 2012)

The daterras seems very interesting bean and it's unfortunate that bellabarista won't sell the Daterras in 1 or 2kg, I wouldn't consume the 12kg before they got old.

I'll guess I have to wait till next year..


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## Going banana's (Apr 8, 2014)

leftism said:


> The daterras seems very interesting bean and it's unfortunate that bellabarista won't sell the Daterras in 1 or 2kg, I wouldn't consume the 12kg before they got old.
> 
> I'll guess I have to wait till next year..


winchester coffee roasters are selling the green pentapacked bourbon collection. its nice and you can get a kilo, only thing to note is postage increases to £5.45 above 950grams (£2.6below) but the website doesnt register it.

if you dont roast yourself, he sells it roasted for not too much more, dont know what the roast is like though.


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## hullcity (Feb 5, 2014)

How does the Bourbon collection compare to the Santa Columba Daterra that was in the recent BB bulk buy? I really liked that one, nice and chocolatey with nuts and caramel like a snickers bar. I was tempted with the Sweets but dithered over ordering as the postage to France is a bit steep and missed out as they sold so quickly.

Mike


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## leftism (Jan 5, 2012)

> winchester coffee roasters are selling the green pentapacked bourbon collection. its nice and you can get a kilo, only thing to note is postage increases to £5.45 above 950grams (£2.6below) but the website doesnt register it.
> 
> if you dont roast yourself, he sells it roasted for not too much more, dont know what the roast is like though.


That sounded good. I have contacted them to check if they ship outside UK since I live in Sweden, haven't received an answer yet but I'm keeping my fingers crossed


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