# Oracle Issues!



## Char (Jan 22, 2020)

Hi all,

I recently (as in the last week) purchased a Breville (Sage - but based in NZ) Oracle. So far, it looks beautiful, comes highly regarded but is frustrating the hell out of me. Currently to date I have used almost 2kg of beans and I think of all the espressos and lattes I have created I have been satisfied with about 5! I feel like I have read absolutely every bit of research on how to brew the perfect espresso shot from ratios to what it looks like! I have asked for advice from multiple experienced sources and it all makes perfect sense to me, however I cannot create the perfect latte! My partner has also stated that they just don't taste that great and as he puts it have a 'dirty' taste first mouthful. I tend to agree..

So, here's what I've done to date (maybe you can tell me where I'm going wrong)...



Firstly the beans I am using are always within a week or 2 of roasting so far also from reputable roasters.


I have been storing the unused beans in a clear airtight container (however, I have since read it shouldn't be clear...) OR in the resealable foil packaging that I was told would be fine to store them in. Both of these storage solutions are then kept in the kitchen cupboard so that they are kept relatively cool and in a dark place. I should also add at this point it is the peak of summer in New Zealand currently so I guess climate may have something to do with my problems... Oh and I don't store beans in the hopper!! I try to put in just enough each time.


I have been using the set time of 30 seconds to pull my shots. Within that time I can get anything from 25g of weighed ground beans with 30g - 50g of wet/extracted coffee - quite a range right? I've found the lower end of the scale (30g extraction) to be closer to the flavour I desire although makes a VERY milky latte so not right!


Today I have been looking more closely at the amount of coffee my oracle is grinding and it was on average 24-26g of ground coffee. Having watched a YouTube video on changing the tamp fan, I have adjusted that and now I'm finding my ground coffee is ranging from 20-22g of ground coffee. Still getting off the scale yields, however!


Another change I have made today is I have changed the advanced setting from time to volumetric. The reason being I have been told that can be helpful, also an experienced barista (who works daily with the same beans I use) told me to look for extraction time of 25-28 seconds. Having trialed it today, I ended up with a start of 22g and a I measured 37g of espresso. Not perfect but closer than I have been!!


To find that perfect ratio of 40-44g, I have adjusted the grind each time but it just does not seem consistent.


I have also cleaned out the grinder and vacuumed the burrs to make sure there is no stale coffee lurking...


I back flush all the time and run blank shots


I'm aware of the machine not being to temperature so always make sure everything is heated before pulling the first shot daily and make sure that the display says 93 degrees and doesn't say 'heating'


I understand that the built in grinders are not the best and possibly the problem is I'm striving for perfection which probably will never be with that type of grinder. All I really want is to get a relatively accurate shot each time without burning all that money on beans. I bought the machine because of the amount of coffee I was drinking from the coffee shops daily. So far (and I may just be impatient) I would have saved money by continuing this habit.

Any pearls of wisdom? Before I take the damn thing back!! I am awaiting to hear back from Breville about a White Glove service... though there seems to be problems around that.

Many thanks in advance.


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## T¹m (Jan 14, 2020)

Hi, I was looking at this machine with a view to buy, so I don't currently have one. However I noticed you mentioned you only place as many beans into the hopper as you need.. I heard you actually should put a lot more in to aid gravity in pushing the lower beans through more evenly for a more consistent grind, otherwise the beans will act like popcorn at the end and the consistency will vary.

I also heard as the grinder itself heats up the grind coarseness will change, so if you're pulling 5 or more shots in a row you may need to dial a slightly finer grind as you do so, and then reset it back to the original grind setting when you've finished all the drinks and turn the unit off so that it's reset for next time.


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## CoffeeNick (Dec 21, 2019)

I had very similar problems to you. I bought the Oracle Touch with a view that it would be family friendly, but I found the grind and tamp to be too inconsistent. It would give strange results, such as first drips arriving at 5 seconds, yet still giving less than 2:1 ratio

I bought a grinder Niche Zero to see if things worked out better, and the consistency and quality improved a lot. I even bought a naked portafilter.

Once I decided the grinder and tamp was my issue and so I was always going to have a separate grinder, I decided a super auto wasn't for me. I also wanted to play with preinfusion, which wasn't possible.

Best of luck getting consistency.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Some machines appear to be incorrectly set up as they arrive. People who obtain a replacement seem to be much happier but I'm not convinced this is the OP's problem although I see the stated dose of grinds as being too high.

The Sage hopper isn't that bad a place to keep beans. As some one mentioned there should be an adequate quantity of beans in it. There may be a need to waste a few grams of grinds each day to clear the grinder of stale grinds. 4 or 5g should do that easily. I've not used an Oracle but have used Sage grinders. In this respect they are all the same, only the adjustment mechanism varies. I found that there was no point in wasting grinds each day, different beans may vary. They also benefit from not being cleaned out too often. That's due to what goes on inside them. What I did when changing beans is get all of the previous ones out of the hopper and any left behind when it's removed then loaded the new beans and wasted 10g or so to get rid of the previous grinds. I then drank what came out once the bean had been tuned. If that happened rather quickly there may have been slight carry over in taste from the previous bean. What I found after using various beans over several months was that I could set the grinder to where it needed to be rather quickly. Carry over was hardly detectable until some idiot bought some vanilla flavoured beans - that took 2 shots to go away.

Certain steps are needed when tuning a bean. One is waste grinds each time the grinder setting is changed. That gets rid of the previous settings grind. The other is when setting coarser always go too coarse and then set finer. The need to work this way is not unique to Sage grinders.

The other thing to realise is that there is no such thing as a perfect ratio. Machines and beans vary. The general idea is to taste several and make the choice purely on taste. For a bean that gives a dirty taste I would suggest a higher ratio. What one - only thing to do is go there and find out and the beans might benefit from a lower one than 2. The idea is to get a balanced taste and one that suites the drinker. An idea of what balanced means can to some extent be obtained from tasting notes. These may not apply to a bean being used in milk drinks though. The highest ratio I have had to use was 4 - commercial none fresh roasted beans intended to be used in hotels etc. Actually that is a commercial ratio. On fresh roasted forgetting shorted shots etc I usually find the range goes from 2 to 3, more often than not more than 2. Meaningful changes in ratio wont be 0.1. They will be some what higher so the grinder should be capable of setting something suitable. The dose of grinds also has an effect but that is fixed on an oracle. As people tend to use the same dose of grinds in a specific basket anyway it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

I use a DB which internally is the same as the Oracle. You may find volume works well enough to keep taste consistent even though the weight of the shot coming out varies. Like most things there is some latitude so again in really terms it comes down to taste. Many people on here weigh shots out by using scales on the drip tray with cup/mug on them. They allow time to vary to keep the same ratio. If time shifts too much taste will change.

When ever anyone complains about the taste of a bean they really should post a link to it. They may be getting exactly what the bean is meant to give. Fresh roasted arabica can taste of all sorts of things. Nothing like blends used by commercial coffee shops.

John

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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Personally I feel one of the most important elements of control you need to maintain in good espresso making is dosing, distribution and tamping.

The lack of ability to do this makes the oracle a tough machine to work with.

The grinder on it is ok. It's not a patch on a decent grinder but after all it's only a £100 or so grinder. What you really need to do with it though is grind into a cup and declump the grind, then distribute well and then tamp.

Is there any way you can grind into a pot and manually tamp?


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## Pseudonym (Aug 31, 2016)

Had My Oracle for 2.5 years now. Not a single issue with extraction. Dose, Tamp have always been good. There's always been a bit of grind build up around the edge of the PF due to the fan system but that's easily resolved with a tap & a light manual tamp. TEXTURING OF MILK.. is another issue. Never found the Auto texture to really give the kind of microfoam needed to get beyond Latte Jizz&#8230; but hey, coffee is good.

Did you have the WGS when you got the machine? If not, highly recommend it - in case there is an error with the machine.

Sadly the Oracle has crapped it. New steam Wand required with ERR message on PID but should be fixable. Picked up a La Spaziale Mini Vivaldi II in response so the brew machine keeps on truckin'.


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## stevegold6 (Nov 25, 2016)

I am also having problems with consistency. I am in the process of arranging a service call.

see attached pdf.

cheers

Steve
View attachment coffee shot problems2.pdf


View attachment coffee shot problems1.pdf

View attachment coffee shot problems.pdf


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

stevegold6 said:


> I am also having problems with consistency. I am in the process of arranging a service call.
> 
> see attached pdf.
> 
> ...


 You cant expect this machine to deliver the consistency you are looking for. It is not a commercial volumtetirc machine


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## Man_Cave (Feb 23, 2020)

Agreed, I gave up on the Oracle grinder.

Since getting the Niche, my shots have become much more consistent. Still not perfect but, That has more to do with my distribution and tamping techniques and in any case, miles better than the results I was getting with the stock grinder.

I even had the WGS guy over, he took the machine apart adjusted all shorts of things and wasted some 600g of fresh expensive coffee. Still, he could not get a single decent shot out of my Oracle Then we tried the Niche and within 3 tries, presto... good tasting coffee.

Get yourself a good grinder.



Mrboots2u said:


> You cant expect this machine to deliver the consistency you are looking for. It is not a commercial volumtetirc machine


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