# Upgrade Grinder or R58 to R60 'best value'?



## PeterL

Another one of those apples and pares compares threads, excuse me my foibles but keen to hear thoughts from others on it.

Using a Mini Mazzer A with my R58, producing amazing espresso but I am finding that the machine over pressures the pour at the end of run such that I am vaguely tempted by the pressure profiling of the R60 but am I better placed to move to a higher end grinder instead?

Drinking 4-6 double ristreto's a day, like it nice and tight with very fine mouse tails and am shopping around on beans at the moment, so it's happening across most varieties I have tried.


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## Mrboots2u

Honestly i think you get better clarity and improvement of flavour from a different grinder ( i own a pressure profiling machine btw )

Plus Jury is still out on the r60 as to how it performs its pressure profiling ( say versus a vesuvius and other machines that can ) the r60 may now have the tech inside to stop over pressuring - who knows - I think @DavecUK may get hands on and let us know

There are different ways , pumps , to exert a pressure on a puck - not all pressure profile machines are the same - or work in the same way .

I think your stressing over a visual that by the sounds of it isnt impacting on the shot - back end blow at at 9 bars ( where the shot/flow speeds up ) isnt somethign to stress about . Just putting a lower pressure at the end , isn't per se gonna make the shot taste better - it may make the pour " look better " but this isnt the aim of espresso ...

Weigh in and out > decent beans > good grinder ( step up from the mazzer mini )

But if your super happy with the taste you are getting , then why stress , enjoy it


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## PeterL

Cheers Boots,

Shots are fine, amazed at the depth of flavour and the accuracy of the tasting notes v's in the cup so it's as you say aesthetics, finding the end of the pour prone to splatter and fidgety although the one I just pulled is tidy and right on the money for all measures.

My machine runs at 10bar under load, might back that down and see if that improves it a little.

Compared to life with the Elektra this is a whole new level of finesse.


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## Mrboots2u

Perhaps adjust the pressure - but id put research and money into a new grinder


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## PeterL

I live in a wonderful land where as a home office worker my Mrs goes through more money on her £20 a day habit in the Docklands than I do on any amount of kit and beans. Net net a Compak E8 or E10 is on the cards.


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## h1udd

How do you make a double ristretto ? What's the ratio of coffee to water and the time ? .... I get confused to ristrettos or ristretti


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## PeterL

h1udd said:


> How do you make a double ristretto ? What's the ratio of coffee to water and the time ? .... I get confused to ristrettos or ristretti


Double ristretto is 1.5 oz / 44ml out of a double basket v's 60ml for a double espresso, grind fine, tamp hard, usual pour time.


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## PeterL

PeterL said:


> I live in a wonderful land where as a home office worker my Mrs goes through more money on her £20 a day habit in the Docklands than I do on any amount of kit and beans. Net net a Compak E8 or E10 is on the cards.


MrBoots, if you had a choice, which one wins btw and why? I get what you mean in terms of clarity, the Mini can be quite muddy compared to others I have had.


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## Mrboots2u

PeterL said:


> MrBoots, if you had a choice, which one wins btw and why? I get what you mean in terms of clarity, the Mini can be quite muddy compared to others I have had.


People choose different grinders for different reasons

I haven't used an E10 so cant say . I did use an E8 for a month and its was super easy to live with and made very tasty coffee.

There will be lots of opinion in the flat v conical babble, with good coffee and decent skills either will make great coffee with your rocket.

Id look at things that will decide it for you - one is less cash than the other , one may have less retention ( i dunno )

@foundryroasters.com have both on the bench at various points and sell em too at very good prices


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## PeterL

OK,

That worked nicely. Upgraded to an E10, dialed in and a KG of seasoning beans through for good measure.

Shot consistency and flavor overload, no tobacco or ash notes. The pour is tighter and less prone to flooding / spattering at the end of run on a double so all in all I fixed what I was setting out to fix.

Surprised by how damn fast it is, 4 seconds fills an 18g VST to overflow v's 22 on the mini.


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## froggystyle

R58 and E10, it doesn't get any better than that, ok i am biased!


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## risky

Glad you upgraded the grinder. R58 would be an end game machine for most.


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## hotmetal

risky said:


> Glad you upgraded the grinder. R58 would be an end game machine for most.


Exactly. Can't see me changing mine unless I a) felt some irresistible urge to get a Londinium lever, and b) won the lottery. However I'm fairly convinced that a grinder in the class of the E8/E10 or their Ceado equivalents would be a step change in flavour.


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## jeebsy

PeterL said:


> Double ristretto is 1.5 oz / 44ml out of a double basket v's 60ml for a double espresso, grind fine, tamp hard, usual pour time.


Are you weighing in and out?


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## PeterL

jeebsy said:


> Are you weighing in and out?


No sadly, am a bush cowboy, right tools, wrong mindset, I focus on volume and time not mass......


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## risky

Holy moly man buy some scales. Volume is totally useless as a measurement of espresso.


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## PeterL

risky said:


> Holy moly man buy some scales. Volume is totally useless as a measurement of espresso.


Interested, describe the method if you might and try and save a sinner, am an atheist you see and I am sceptical of all belief systems....


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## risky

PeterL said:


> Interested, describe the method if you might and try and save a sinner, am an atheist you see and I am sceptical of all belief systems....


I'll let Matty P explain:

http://www.baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-measuring-yield/

Then again, by not using scales you're sure to be featured on the Rocket Instagram account.


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## PeterL

risky said:


> I'll let Matty P explain:
> 
> http://www.baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-measuring-yield/
> 
> Then again, by not using scales you're sure to be featured on the Rocket Instagram account.


Cheers, on my ipad for a read, I really am a cowboy, if it's detail your looking for I ain't in it......


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## PeterL

risky said:


> I'll let Matty P explain:
> 
> http://www.baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-measuring-yield/
> 
> Then again, by not using scales you're sure to be featured on the Rocket Instagram account.


Brewista scales bought, point made, in coffee heaven, stupid stupid me.....


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