# Dripping Bianca



## tdw

I've had the machine for about a month now but today I've noticed it seems to be dripping more than usual, from the little nipple thing behind the main pressure relief valve on the group head.

It seems to drip as normal as the machine is warming up, then it will stop as normal. After making a coffee, it will continue to drip constantly at a rate of around 1 drip per second. As I write this, it's still dripping and I last made a coffee around 15 mins ago.

It will stop dripping shortly after the machine is turned off.

Has anyone else had this?


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## catpuccino

Bianca's dripping from the nipple? Blimey.

...

See myself out.


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## Jony

Photos I'm not familiar with Bianca


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## tdw

It's this bit circled in red. Complete with water drop in the process of falling.


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## MediumRoastSteam

tdw said:


> I've had the machine for about a month now but today I've noticed it seems to be dripping more than usual, from the little nipple thing behind the main pressure relief valve on the group head.
> 
> It seems to drip as normal as the machine is warming up, then it will stop as normal. After making a coffee, it will continue to drip constantly at a rate of around 1 drip per second. As I write this, it's still dripping and I last made a coffee around 15 mins ago.
> 
> It will stop dripping shortly after the machine is turned off.
> 
> Has anyone else had this?


Take the cover off your machine. Can you identify the tubes going to that outlet (nipple)? Where are those tubes connected to?

See if you can observe what's going on, take photos or videos (of the insides) and that would be very helpful.


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## Jony

Just do this @DavecUK


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## BlackCatCoffee

OPV outlet.

No unusual to see some dripping. Not familiar enough with Bianca to say what is normal there though.

Jony has summoned the man who will be however.......


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## DavecUK

Do what @Jonysuggested first


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## tdw

I'm more used to car mechanics and, in typical car style, once I'd drained everything out, taken things apart to figure out which hoses do what and put enough back together to run it up to temperature... It's not misbehaving any more. I did the following:

* Note: I normally run the machine with the steam boiler turned off, as we rarely drink milky coffees



Turned the steam boiler on, let it build some pressure then drain it via the hot water tap - there was enough water left in the tank to refill it a bit I suppose as I got slightly more than a litre out


Ran water through the group head until the low water warning came on


Turned the machine off and left it for an hour or so


Removed water tank and top access panel


Decided I could see enough so didn't flip the machine over to get to the screws for the side panel


Loosely re-seated the water tank and refilled it


Turned the machine back on...


I've included some photos in case anyone has any theories but I can't think why what I did would have stopped the 'leaking'.

I've highlighted the hoses (they're not actually yellow...) here. The red arrow shows where the hose disappears from view in the photo and it attaches to the nipple sort of where the green arrow is.









It's hard to get clear photos of the hose itself but I've tried. Here's a photo of the top of the machine (group head on the right obviously). The area circled in red is the subject of the second photo which is zoomed in, with the hose / nipple circled.

















For some sort of reference of how much water I'm talking about in terms of 'drips', I have the machine set on a timer to come on before I get up. The hour or so between it turning on and me getting out of bed this morning resulted in approx. half a litre of water in the drip tray(!) By the time I turned the machine off to start dismantling it, there was an almost steady stream of water coming out of the valve/nipple.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Ok.

So...

All those silicone hoses end up in the venting outlet, connecting to the hose on the far right.

Their sources, from what I can see are:

- pump over pressure valve (left of the machine);

- vacum breaker of the service boiler;

- over pressure valve of the service boiler.

It seems a lot of water ending up on the drip tray. If you run your machine with covers off and observe which one of those hoses the water is travelling through, then we may be able to figure out the problem.

Edit: Does this problem still happens if the service boiler is on? I.e: follow up your usual routine, but leave the steam boiler on.

If you can reproduce the fault then the service boiler is off and not reproduce when the service boiler is on, then it's most likely the vacuum breaker valve is open (normal) and the boiler is overfilling (not normal). I've seen a few posts with those symptoms before, across different manufacturers.

Please let us know.

Great work!


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## tdw

Thanks for the quick reply!

My plan was exactly that, to run it with the cover off so I could see what was going on. However, after I've done all the above, it's no longer dripping more than it 'should' (eg a few drips while warming up then no more) and I can't think why the above actions would have changed anything.


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## MediumRoastSteam

tdw said:


> Thanks for the quick reply!
> 
> My plan was exactly that, to run it with the cover off so I could see what was going on. However, after I've done all the above, it's no longer dripping more than it 'should' (eg a few drips while warming up then no more) and I can't think why the above actions would have changed anything.


See my edit above. Are you running with the service boiler on by any chance?


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## DavecUK

tdw said:


> * Note: I normally run the machine with the steam boiler turned off, as we rarely drink milky coffees
> 
> 
> 
> Turned the steam boiler on, let it build some pressure then drain it via the hot water tap - there was enough water left in the tank to refill it a bit I suppose as I got slightly more than a litre out (but you didn't switch the machine off and open the hot water tap did you, as you seem to say the pump was refilling the boiler?)
> 
> 
> For some sort of reference of how much water I'm talking about in terms of 'drips', I have the machine set on a timer to come on before I get up. The hour or so between it turning on and me getting out of bed this morning resulted in approx. half a litre of water in the drip tray(!) By the time I turned the machine off to start dismantling it, there was an almost steady stream of water coming out of the valve/nipple.


 This is what I "think" could be happening.

Water out of the expansion valve after a shot is normal and some drops will squeeze through as cold water that entered the brew boiler expands. Also on first startup as brew boiler water expands. If the service boiler is completely full, when the brew boiler comes on it will heat up the machine and the water in the service boiler will start to get warm (and expand), it can eventually reach equilibrium at about 40 or even 45C. This water will expand, come out of the vacuum breaker and into the drip tray

*If the service boiler is on, I expect you get a lot of water initially, it stops then you don't get any more ?*

*Is your steam is wet?*

After a shot, it might be that during the shot some water is entering the service boiler via a leaky autofill solenoid and pushing water out of the vacuum breaker when the service boilers is *off. Try pulling a shot against a blind filter with a cold/off service boiler and see what happens?*



> It seems to drip as normal as the machine is warming up, then it will stop as normal. After making a coffee, it will continue to drip constantly at a rate of around 1 drip per second. As I write this, it's still dripping and I last made a coffee around 15 mins ago.
> 
> It will stop dripping shortly after the machine is turned off.


 Does it drip for 10-12 hours as you leave the machine on all day, or do you turn the machine on, make a coffee, then switch it off, it's unclear what you do and for how long these periods are?

P.S. The boiler might nolt overfill every time, so sometimes the things in bold may not happen. From what you have described, it's the only explanation that makes any sense...*but what would be super useful, next time it does it, you identify which of the 3 hoses highlighted is passing water!*


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## tdw

I wish it was still doing it so I could figure out which hose it's coming from!

I've just been out for a run for an hour or so and had turned on the steam boiler before going out, so it had plenty of time to get nice and hot. I've come back and run about a minute of steam through it, in 10-15s goes. I've also pulled a proper shot of coffee and a couple of blinds. Still no adverse dripping.

I've now turned the steam boiler OFF again and will try some further blind shots in an hour or two once it's had time to cool a little.

@DavecUK Thanks for the detailed reply. Obviously I don't know enough about the inner workings of these machines but the theory that something isn't shutting off water flow as it should (and something is therefore overfilling or constantly filling, and overflowing) seems to, er, hold water...

To try to answer your questions:



DavecUK said:


> Does it drip for 10-12 hours as you leave the machine on all day, or do you turn the machine on, make a coffee, then switch it off, it's unclear what you do and for how long these periods are?


 That wasn't as clear as it could have been. The machine tends to be on for 8-10hrs a day, I do not turn it on and off as needed to make coffee, but I do have it set to go into sleep mode after 3hrs. Yesterday I noticed it was dripping constantly for perhaps 2-3hrs before I turned it off to start trying to troubleshoot.



DavecUK said:


> *If the service boiler is on, I expect you get a lot of water initially, it stops then you don't get any more ?*


 This is certainly how I've seen it behave in what I would assume is 'normal' operation.



DavecUK said:


> Is your steam is wet?


 The steam is rather wet to start with, and will pool some water if steaming into an empty jug, but becomes drier the longer the valve is open. A second 'pull' of steam shortly afterwards will produce dry steam. As I say though, we don't really use the steam wand very often at all. I've probably used it a total of 5 or 6 times in the past month.


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## DavecUK

From your answers, it's* probably* what I think.


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## Keeper

Mine does this just while the machine is warming up. I can get a bit of steam and it stops.

If I leave the machine on I get no further dripping.


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## tdw

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, this is not the normal 'warming up' dripping. It's constant. I had almost half a litre of water in the drip tray this morning.


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## John Yossarian

I had similar experience as my drip tray was not aligned so the water spilled out on the worktop, that was how I noticed the water coming out of the expansion valve (it looks very similar to your "nipple") as you describe it.

It turned out this is normal during heating the brew boiler, similar to you I run mine with the service boiler off. I only get about 30 ml upon heating. Half a litre is on the high side.

Bianca is a rock solid machine and hopefully it will not return, if it did you know what to do it seems.

Cheers,

John


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## tdw

Thanks all.

I've had the steam boiler off for the last few hours now, have pulled a few blind shots through and still nothing unexpected from the nipple (...)

I've decided I'll leave the machine semi-dissassembled for a few days so it will be easier to diagnose should it return, so let's see.

Again, as with car mechanics, a fault that goes away on its own and is not reproducible is never satisfactory...


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## DavecUK

DavecUK said:


> P.S. The boiler might not overfill every time, so sometimes the things in bold may not happen. From what you have described, it's the only explanation that makes any sense...*but what would be super useful, next time it does it, you identify which of the 3 hoses highlighted is passing water!*


 Hopefully with the cover off, this will identify the exact issue if/when it starts happening again.


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## tdw

Well, it happened again. It was fine until I'd used it to make a coffee this morning, then it started dripping again.

It's not like there's a steady stream of water so it's a bit hard to tell which hose it's coming from as there's no obvious steady flow, but by process of elimination it looks like it's the one circled in red below. The other two have bubbles in them that aren't moving, so I assume there's no flow of water in them. The 'red' hose has a little bubble down towards the blue plastic union that is bobbing up and down in time with the drips.









Now the potentially interesting part. I decided to turn on the steam boiler once I noticed it'd started dripping again. As the steam boiler was warming up, there was a steady, continuous flow of water out of the circled hose above and out of the nipple. Like, a-jet-of-water continuous. This lasted about 20s then stopped. Once the steam boiler was up to temperature things seemed to stabilise and the machine behaved normally while I made coffees and pulled some blind shots.

Finally, as a bit of an experiment, I turned the steam boiler off again. After doing so I thought I'd empty some of the water out of it using the tap, thinking that if it's a problem with the refilling of the boiler then if I left it with a lower level of water, it should take longer for the problem to re-occur, or I should see more water disappearing from the tank (??). Also potentially of note, opening the tap was incredibly steamy and 'spat' a lot. (Is it meant to do that?)


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## MediumRoastSteam

It's the vacuum breaker valve. So that's not shutting properly and your boiler is most likely overfilling.

What water are you using?


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## MediumRoastSteam

What you could do is to remove the hose from that nozzle.

Proceed to warning up your machine as normal, with the service boiler turned off.

Put a cloth around it to collect any water. Or, disconnect the other end of the hose and divert it to cup or something.

If water starts coming out of it, when is that happening? How hot is the brew boiler?

Is it a lot of water coming out? Is it spluttering?

If the service boiler is off, and the water is not spluttering (it shouldn't) then you have a problem with your fill sensor. You can take it off , give it a good clean, put it back and see if it happens again.

If water keeps coming out at a steady rate, the pump should kick in at some point to refil the boiler. Is it doing that?


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## tdw

Thanks. I did think about pulling the hose off as a troubleshooting measure but it's on there pretty tight and as everything was hot I didn't fancy it. I've only ever used Volvic in this machine, to the dismay of my wallet(!). The pump does seem to run to refill the boiler as the water is coming out of it at the faster rates. I haven't noticed it when it's just dripping slowly but I haven't exactly stood around waiting for it.

Is there a wiring diagram for these things so I can see what's what?


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## DavecUK

The problem is an overfilling service boiler, solve that problem. Vac breaker is most likely fine.

Check combined thermostat and fill sensor to left of circled area. It has red and white wire attached, you problem is most likely there. Might try replacing it, if you think the pump is running for an overly long time on boiler filling.

Otherwise could be a badly sealing auto fill solenoid.


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## Rob1

tdw said:


> Thanks. I did think about pulling the hose off as a troubleshooting measure but it's on there pretty tight and as everything was hot I didn't fancy it. I've only ever used Volvic in this machine, to the dismay of my wallet(!). The pump does seem to run to refill the boiler as the water is coming out of it at the faster rates. I haven't noticed it when it's just dripping slowly but I haven't exactly stood around waiting for it.
> 
> Is there a wiring diagram for these things so I can see what's what?


 Volvic scales and pretty much anything you put into your machine will scale in a service boiler eventually unless it has no minerals at all (just bicarbonates). If it isn't scaled up the other things to check have been outlined.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Dave is right as usual. You vaccum breaker is most likely fine. When I say "it's not shutting properly", I meant "it's not shutting" because the service boiler is not up to temperature (as it's switched off) and therefore the valve remains open. If nothing is coming out when the boiler is on and up to temp as you described, then, as Dave says, it's most likely fine.


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## MediumRoastSteam

So we went through all of this but I never asked... is this machine still under warranty? Where did you buy it from?


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## tdw

I've only had it for a month so surely it can't be scaled up already!

It came from BB so it's all under warranty. I was just going to try to sort it myself if it was something obvious, since it's a bit hard to get the machine up to them right now.

Dave's explanation makes sense, thanks.


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## MediumRoastSteam

tdw said:


> I've only had it for a month so surely it can't be scaled up already!
> 
> It came from BB so it's all under warranty. I was just going to try to sort it myself if it was something obvious, since it's a bit hard to get the machine up to them right now.
> 
> Dave's explanation makes sense, thanks.


Give them a ring. Explain to them your findings. They should at least try to help you diagnose and guide you through fitting a new probe if that's what it needs. Theirs service is excellent.

Good luck!


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## Rob1

tdw said:


> I've only had it for a month so surely it can't be scaled up already!
> 
> It came from BB so it's all under warranty. I was just going to try to sort it myself if it was something obvious, since it's a bit hard to get the machine up to them right now.
> 
> Dave's explanation makes sense, thanks.


 It depends on usage.

You've pulled shots and ran the pump against a blind filter and noticed the leaking hasn't got worse or has stopped so the solenoid is at least shutting properly. That really just leaves the autofill probe to check...


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## tdw

One other question while I'm here. Is the service boiler supposed to fill under normal operation, when the machine has the service boiler turned off? Or should it only fill if enabled?


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## MediumRoastSteam

As far as I know, it should always fill regardless whether the element is enabled or disabled.


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## tdw

Thanks. I've run the machine with the service boiler on for the last couple of days and it seems to be behaving itself. Have contacted BB anyway.


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie

Thanks tdw this thread has helped me with a repair...

Just giving the bianca its first annual check this morning and found the connector between the silicon pipe and the service boiler anti vac valve had failed, see first pic below. The connector was an ulka part identical to that on the expansion valve. on removing the connector it simply crumbled into pieces, most likely due to heat cycles. So as a quick fix I cleaned up and connected the silicon hose directly onto the anti vac valve with the intent of replacing the connector later. 
On looking at the images of your machine it looks like the pipes connect directly anyway. So my temporary fix will now be more permanent.

This does show the slight variations in the build of machines. I suspect others may have the same problem as me.

Tony










Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## DavecUK

i'd leave the fix like that, IMO better than that angled connector.


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## tdw

Glad something useful came out of this!

As usual BB service was great. I didn't want to ship the thing so I drove it up there and they managed to fix my machine while I waited.


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## jakery

Hi @tdw - What was the final resolution here?

My Bianca is suffering from the same sputtering, steamy leaks from the same hose that you identified here:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52011-dripping-bianca/?do=embed&comment=744345&embedComment=744345&embedDo=findComment

How did you end up fixing this?


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## MediumRoastSteam

jakery said:


> Hi @tdw - What was the final resolution here?
> 
> My Bianca is suffering from the same sputtering, steamy leaks from the same hose that you identified here:
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52011-dripping-bianca/?do=embed&comment=744345&embedComment=744345&embedDo=findComment
> 
> How did you end up fixing this?


 That's the vacuum breaker. Could you please define "steady leaks"? When does it happen? Is it during warm up or when using the machine? How did you notice it was leaking?

(Ps: welcome to the forum).


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## jakery

Hi @MediumRoastSteam - Thanks for the welcome.

Here's a video of my vacuum breaker valve leaking:






It leaks constantly after the machine has warmed up, a steady belching of steam and spurts of droplets.

I noticed that it was leaking months ago but did not realize that this was not normal until my neighbor saw it and flagged to me that there might be a problem. 🙃

The machine is 1 year old.

I disassembled the vacuum valve hoping that there was scale I could clean for an easy fix. I did find a bit of debris in there but nothing major. Even after cleaning it's still sputtering steam. I suspect that the o-ring has failed. It was hard and a bit misshapen.


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## Mrboots2u

Not sure what is going on with the Vac break with these machines, this is the third or fourth to exhibit this issue, dont know if this is common on e61 or not.


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## MediumRoastSteam

> 4 hours ago, jakery said:
> 
> Hi @MediumRoastSteam - Thanks for the welcome.
> 
> Here's a video of my vacuum breaker valve leaking:


 Thanks. What's the steam like? Is it quite wet rather than dry? If you open the hot water tap and draw 3floz of water: do you hear the pump refilling? Does the dripping stop?

What's the water you put in the machine like? Tap water, bottled, Reverse Osmosis?

I'd get in touch with your vendor, and failing that, Lelit Customer Care department and source a new vacum breaker. As boots say, it's very strange it failed so soon. I also have a Lelit Machine, so I'll definitely keep an eye on this.

seems to cost approx: €8,00 from https://www.lamacchinadelcaffe.com/pompe-valvole-lelit.html


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## Mrboots2u

I was trying to get an anti vac for the bianca , was told it is not a generic part ?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Mrboots2u said:


> I was trying to get an anti vac for the bianca , was told it is not a generic part ?


 Why not? Who told you that? It seems that at some point they had some crazy stuff like this... seems to be some early versions:

https://www.home-barista.com/repairs/lelit-bianca-steam-boiler-anti-vacuum-valve-prototype-t68374.html









But the one posted by you and @jakeryabove seems pretty standard to me at least:









maybe @DavecUK can confirm. To me, a vacuum breaker is a vacum breaker, whether it's fancy or standard. As long as it can be screwed into the hole, then it should work just fine.


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## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Maybe @DavecUK can confirm. To me, a vacuum breaker is a vacuum breaker, whether it's fancy or standard. As long as it can be screwed into the hole, then it should work just fine.


 Yes it's a standard part and if the thread fits (or even using an adaptor), *any vacuum breaker will work no problem*...just with some vacuum breakers you cannot put a tube on them...depends on the design. With no tube they might splutter a bit as they close...but it's no biggie unless they are right next to the limit stat (as I believe Quick Mill were very fond of doing at one time 😉).

Personally I would just buy another O ring (Silicone FKM type) and fit it. for the easy life.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Assortment-270pcs-Fluorine/dp/B07L113439/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=fkm%2Bo%2Brings&qid=1603793342&s=diy&sr=1-5&th=1

You get a whole box of assorted sizes for £11....These are Silicone, but there is FKM also, don't know if they will all fit..The other way is to accurately measure the O ring and order a bag of silicone or FKM ones in the exact dimensions you need....

Use PTFE tape to put the Vac Breaker back in the boiler, you don't need to tighten it down completely.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Great advice from Dave there. All that part does is to to form a seal between the white part (teflon / PTFE presumably) against the o-ring. Maybe a new o-ring (silicone) should do the trick. Worth trying that first.

@jakery - I'm sure you did, but, just checking, did you put the while part the correct way up on your second time round? Presumably the rounded part facing up in your picture should face down and touch the red silicone o-ring when mounted. (I think).


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## jakery

Hi @MediumRoastSteam

Here is a video of me pulling steam and hot water:






The steam starts wet, though very briefly, and then looks good to me. After pulling hot water, the pump did kick on to refill, though the dripping does not stop, it continues.

I have no idea why the water from the boiler is brown.  I very rarely use the hot water tap so that's why I've never noticed this before.

I use tap water with the in-tank water softener. I recharge the water softener with salt every two weeks and replaced the in tank softener a few months ago so it's not old nor is it the original one that came on the machine.

I am considering switching to RO water with the third wave tablets: https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/third-wave-water/third-wave-water?sku=third-wave-water-th-wa-wa-v-v&utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping feed&utm_content=free google shopping clicks&gclid=Cj0KCQjwit_8BRCoARIsAIx3Rj7ZT6QsPuqk3V8aqQk-pl7BmMEddwuRMaZ4ZGKrtVzVEPAkW7qJaT8aAkWEEALw_wcB

re: the vacuum breaker valve, I did reassemble it properly. When the machine warms I can hear it suck up and seal, though it's not actually sealed as residual steam continues to sputter out of it.

@DavecUK Hi there - would you advise that I look for FKM o-rings instead of regular silicon?

Thank you all!


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## DavecUK

Silicon fine FKM also fine if the fit is good.

Steam is fine, always water at beginning, it's why we purge.

Might be copper boiler can't remember at the moment. switch off, open hot tap...untill no more water comes out. Switch on allow to refill and heat up again, then repeat twice more.

Refresh boiler water like this monthly.


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## MediumRoastSteam

> 39 minutes ago, jakery said:
> 
> Hi @MediumRoastSteam
> 
> Here is a video of me pulling steam and hot water:


 It does look good. So, do try replacing the o-ring and hopefully that's it.


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## jakery

Will do! Thank you. While we're on the subject of o-rings and gaskets, does anyone know the size of the gasket on the exhaust plunger in the e61, specially part #22 from this diagram: https://www.espressocare.com/schematics/vibiemme-e-61-manual-grouphead-hx-jr-2b. From Lelit, this is the part #: https://www.1st-line.com/buy/lelit-mc1000027-bottom-cam-for-manual-valve-for-lelit-bianca/

I noticed that the gasket on this plunger is mangled in my machine. The surface has degraded and is starting to fray. Every now and then I notice some drips from the bottom of the group set and I think this is the culprit.


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## MediumRoastSteam

I do not know. Worse case scenario, just undo it, measure and source the part.


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## DavecUK

Part no 22 is the preinfusion chamber valve seat, that won't be causing your problem, the vent valve at the bottom will be the culprit. Backflushing with puly cafe might solve it. If it's just the odd drip don't worry about it.


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## blankets

Hi, as always glad I've found this thread. I've noticed the drip tray has filled much quicker over the last few days. I switched my machine off 30mins ago and there's still water coming out of the outlet. I've not got much time to diagnose today, but took a 30s video of the issue. I'm assuming it's the same issue.

View attachment IMG_0237 2.mp4


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## DavecUK

the gold standard for diagnosis is to remove the top plate, observe the pipes that lead to the drip tray when warming up, when hot and when cooling down..see which fitting is leaking, photo and indicate it.

It could simply be a leaking vacuum breaker, or perhaps safety valve.


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## blankets

DavecUK said:


> the gold standard for diagnosis is to remove the top plate, observe the pipes that lead to the drip tray when warming up, when hot and when cooling down..see which fitting is leaking, photo and indicate it.
> 
> It could simply be a leaking vacuum breaker, or perhaps safety valve.


 Lifted the top plate and (excuse my lack of naming parts correct) the white wire connector running to the temperature probe doesn't look too healthy. Is that connector removable? It's likely to crumble away under any pressure.


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## DavecUK

Yeah, the white wire leads to the level probe, it's a combined temp sensor and level probe.

can you take a shot from further away to show the whole top area of the machine.


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## blankets

DavecUK said:


> Yeah, the white wire leads to the level probe, it's a combined temp sensor and level probe.


 Thanks for clarifying, will that need replacing and the likely source of the problem? Or pursue the warm up and observe which fitting is leaking?


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## DavecUK

Put up a photo from further away.....so I can see the entire top of the machine please.


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## blankets

DavecUK said:


> Put up a photo from further away.....so I can see the entire top of the machine please.


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## DavecUK

OK that crumbling connector.....check it and* if there is a spade connector inside the white cover*....your good and it's no problem, even if it crumbles completely, as long as the spade connector only touches the spade it's connected to and nothing else it's all good.

If that connector is loose, it can cause a boiler overfill...which "might" be the cause of your problems. If there is not a spade connector, then crimp and insulated one of the right size on there, put it back on and you're good to go.

It of course may not be the cause of problems, but just a maintenance inspecti9n job that needs doing...before it causes a problem. Do the other things I mentioned as well for problem solving.


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## blankets

DavecUK said:


> OK that crumbling connector.....check it and* if there is a spade connector inside the white cover*....your good and it's no problem, even if it crumbles completely, as long as the spade connector only touches the spade it's connected to and nothing else it's all good.
> 
> If that connector is loose, it can cause a boiler overfill...which "might" be the cause of your problems. If there is not a spade connector, then crimp and insulated one of the right size on there, put it back on and you're good to go.
> 
> It of course may not be the cause of problems, but just a maintenance inspecti9n job that needs doing...before it causes a problem. Do the other things I mentioned as well for problem solving.


 Ok spade cover crumbled away, connector doesn't look damaged. Feels an ok connection when fitted. Anyone know of a replacement cover for that spade connector (assuming it needs to be insulated)?









This is the only valve that is kicking out water consistently during warmup and cool down. I've no baseline observation for whether that's within tolerance.

View attachment warmdown.mp4


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## DavecUK

Firstly the spade doesn't need insulating, just make sure it only touches the connector it's on, or the machine will not refill and think the service boiler is full of water. Until of course the heating element goes pop.

That fitting that's leaking looks like the vacuum breaker, it's normal for a brief hiss and spitting then the service boiler gets close to 100C, then a short bit after 100C it should close and stay closed. On cooldown, nothing should come out of it at all, and at 100C, it might slightly sputter for a second but then drop open as there would be no pressure in the service boiler.

Your earlier short video seemed to show something else, but I couldn't see the temp readouts and it was only 7s long.


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## blankets

DavecUK said:


> Firstly the spade doesn't need insulating, just make sure it only touches the connector it's on, or the machine will not refill and think the service boiler is full of water. Until of course the heating element goes pop.
> 
> That fitting that's leaking looks like the vacuum breaker, it's normal for a brief hiss and spitting then the service boiler gets close to 100C, then a short bit after 100C it should close and stay closed. On cooldown, nothing should come out of it at all, and at 100C, it might slightly sputter for a second but then drop open as there would be no pressure in the service boiler.
> 
> Your earlier short video seemed to show something else, but I couldn't see the temp readouts and it was only 7s long.


 That video above 5-10m after turning off. I've got a video on warm up, where it's pretty constant.


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## DavecUK

Check it's not a different tube on warm-up!

If it is the vacuum breaker, and it's water rather than condensed steam and right from when it begins to warm up...then you may have a boiler fill level problem. You need to be sure, or you will have a lot of wasted work and risk of causing a problem trying to fix it if it's not.


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## blankets

Just compressing two videos. On warm up there's the standard spit and hiss but then it continues. At temperature now and it's a constant leak from that tube (into drip tray).

Warming up (WARNING: due to compression there is some flashing):

View attachment warm-1.mp4


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## DavecUK

I would imagine the water in the tray fills up very slowly...Looks like you need to, in order try.... for the vacuum breaker



remove, split, clean


remove split clean replace o ring


buy a new vacuum breaker

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52011-dripping-bianca/?do=embed&comment=786960&embedComment=786960&embedDo=findComment


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## blankets

DavecUK said:


> I would imagine the water in the tray fills up very slowly...Looks like you need to, in order try.... for the vacuum breaker
> 
> 
> 
> remove, split, clean
> 
> 
> remove split clean replace o ring
> 
> 
> buy a new vacuum breaker
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/52011-dripping-bianca/?do=embed&comment=786960&embedComment=786960&embedDo=findComment


 Thanks. Just timed it and on average there's drips into the tray every 8-12 seconds. I'll turn off and attempt vacuum breaker a bit later. Will post back.


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## blankets

Update: all fixed, the culprit was the vacuum breaker (fyi: 17mm socket to remove). Cleaned the valve with citric acid, replaced the 7mm o-ring from the assorted set @DavecUK posted earlier.

Replaced the silicon tubing attached to it with this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07T11QFHJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title from the measurements of the old tube.

Back to the usual steam and water expulsion when coming up to temp. Little to nothing from OPV outlet after two hours.

As always thanks to the forum and @DavecUK.


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## DavecUK

Good work and nice fix...my bill is in the post 😉


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## jakery

DavecUK said:


> Yes it's a standard part and if the thread fits (or even using an adaptor), *any vacuum breaker will work no problem*...just with some vacuum breakers you cannot put a tube on them...depends on the design. With no tube they might splutter a bit as they close...but it's no biggie unless they are right next to the limit stat (as I believe Quick Mill were very fond of doing at one time 😉).
> 
> Personally I would just buy another O ring (Silicone FKM type) and fit it. for the easy life.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-Assortment-270pcs-Fluorine/dp/B07L113439/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=fkm%2Bo%2Brings&qid=1603793342&s=diy&sr=1-5&th=1
> 
> You get a whole box of assorted sizes for £11....These are Silicone, but there is FKM also, don't know if they will all fit..The other way is to accurately measure the O ring and order a bag of silicone or FKM ones in the exact dimensions you need....
> 
> Use PTFE tape to put the Vac Breaker back in the boiler, you don't need to tighten it down completely.


 Welp my vbv has failed again, less than 1 year later. I haven't disassembled it yet but I suspect it's another o-ring failure. Are FKM o-rings more durable that standard silicon? I am becoming disappointed with my Bianca. 

Anyone have a FKM kit recommendation from Amazon? Prices are all over the place from $20-100 with seemingly not much distinguishing the kits.


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## DavecUK

jakery said:


> Welp my vbv has failed again, less than 1 year later. I haven't disassembled it yet but I suspect it's another o-ring failure. Are FKM o-rings more durable that standard silicon? I am becoming disappointed with my Bianca.
> 
> Anyone have a FKM kit recommendation from Amazon? Prices are all over the place from $20-100 with seemingly not much distinguishing the kits.


 FKM are Viton and can be more durable at high temps. I'm going to suggest that you run with the steam boiler off unless you need to steam, and then switch it off after..In case that's not what you are doing. Then the vacuum breakers normally last much longer.

As for kits they are fairly inexpensive and when you find what fits...you can simply order a pack of just those. I have Nitrile (I think) and FKM. I used them for all sorts of little jobs.


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## MediumRoastSteam

One year though&#8230; that's crazy short lifespan. My Elizabeth, set to 140C steam, fires up every day with the steam boiler on. It's been 14 months. I think it might be even the same vacuum breaker part as the Bianca.

when you replaced it last time, what did you replace? The whole thing or just a seal?


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## jakery

Hi! Last night I disassembled the VBV and discovered a bit of scale and a brittle, sad o-ring. I cleaned off the scale and replaced the o-ring and this morning discovered that it is still dripping steam. I disconnected my hoses and isolated the leak to the part highlighted below.

I think the safety valve has failed. Does this part operate the same way as the VBV? Can I clean it the same way or must this be replaced? Cheers.







I


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## MediumRoastSteam

@jakery - I believe that, if the safety valve fails, it should be replaced. You cannot clean it in the same way I don't think.

Question... Why do you think it failed? If it fails, it will be releasing steam quite aggressively. Don't get confused with flash boiling waster being evaporated due to dripping water from the expansion valve. So, before you replace it, make sure it is the valve itself that's releasing steam and not just heating up condensation from other sources.

And, if you are seeing scale in the anti-vac valve... That's not a good sign. What's inside your boiler? If you have the valve off, you might as well syphon some water out and take a look at it.


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## TonyCoffeeNewbie

I had the same problem with my Bianca dripping, replaced the vbv and still dripped so replaced the safety valve and now all good. tbh I do leave the service boiler on most days.. so orobablu to be expected


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## jakery

My machine, including serving boiler is on 7 days a week from 5:45a to 2:30 pm for my morning and afternoon coffee. Is that bad? Should I be turning the boiler off earlier? I wish it could be scheduled... turning it on/off daily in the menu sounds tedious. Generally I cappuccino in the AM and espresso in the afternoon so there is no reason for me to leave the boiler on all day.

@MediumRoastSteam I have no idea why it failed  I don't see scale in the silicon vac line, just inside the VBV when cleaning it. Here's a few photos of what I found. The white residue on the VBV threads is nylon tape, not scale.















I haven't siphoned the boiler but I did purge it before service by opening the hot water spout until empty and what came out was nice and clear. Do you expect siphoning to reveal something different? Thank you


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## MediumRoastSteam

@jakery Maybe it's OK then. Just very annoying that you have to replace those parts so often! 😞 - Maybe it's because the steam boiler is constantly on. That's the only reason I can think of. Although, if this was an HX machine, you'd have the same problem and no option to turn it off.

On your Bianca, if you hold the minus button on the LCC for 3 seconds or so, does the steam boiler toggle on/off? On the Elizabeth at least, it does. A very handy shortcut.


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## bluealex

Hello,

Yesterday my Lelit Bianca started Steaming from the nozzle and it continues to steam as long as the machine is on. It does not steam if the steam boiler is turned off so i think I've narrowed the problem somehow to the steam boiler?

Here is a video of the problem, any ideas? I'm not very savvy with the technical parts of the machine but should manage if i need to change some simple parts.

Thank you in advance for any help!


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## cuprajake




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## DavecUK

@bluealex Welcome to the forum

It's hard to tell from your video but at 1m:06s, you focus on a fitting on the steam boiler, is the tube of this one the one showing evidence of leaking, or is it the one to the right of it you focus on later. I think it might be the one you focus on first, if that's the case you need a new safety valve. If it's the other one, that's the vacuum breaker.

You can get yourself oriented by watching my tech tour Video here where I explain the internals of a Bianca (it was the prototype, but most of it is the same).

If the machine is still in warranty, if it's the safety valve, the retailer should send you another free under warranty.* If it's the vacuum breaker, you would need to pay for that as it's down to use and if it's gone early, often poor quality water (not necessarily hardness)*


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## bluealex

> 28 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> It's hard to tell from your video but at 1m:06s you focus on a fittin on the steam boiler, is the tube of this one the one showing evidence of leaking, or is it the one to the right of it you focus on later. I think it might be the one you focus on first and if that's the case you need a new safety valve. If it's the other one, that's the vacuum breaker.
> 
> You can get yourself oriented by watching my tech tour Video here where I explain the internals of a Bianca (it was the prototype, but most of it is the same).
> 
> If the machine is still in warranty, if it's the safety valve, the retailer should send you another free under warranty.* If it's the vacuum breaker, you would need to pay for that as it's down to use and if it's gone early, often poor quality water (not necessarily hardness)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The constant boiling sound seems to be coming from the Safety valve, is it normal that the water is flowing from the safety valve constantly? My warranty has unfortunately expired, if it is the safety valve that has failed: can i just change it? Found one here: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-bianca-safety-valve.html
> 
> Is it easy to change?


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## cuprajake

What temp is the steam boiler set to?


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## bluealex

i have it set a 132 Celsius, steam pressure just around 2-2.2 bar


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## MediumRoastSteam

@bluealex - It's likely to be the safety valve, a very simple thing to replace. If you want to be doubly sure, remove the hose carefully from the top of the safety valve. Dry the outlet with some kitchen towel.

Turn machine on, steam boiler on. You may get some water coming out of the OPV, so just make sure you plug that or catch any water, just in case.

If steam keeping coming out of it from the top, you know you have a problem there.

Just give Bella Barista a ring and they will send you the right part.

Part: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-bianca-safety-valve.html

This is on the Elizabeth. The principle is the same.


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## cuprajake

Try dropping the steam pressure

I have mine set at 1.5 bar and with the 4 hole tip its still more than enough to do two full milk drinks worth


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## DavecUK

bluealex said:


> i have it set a 132 Celsius, steam pressure just around 2-2.2 bar


 yeah, it shouldn't leak at that pressure, best buy another one and pop it on...clean out the threads of any sealant (unless it's using a copper washer, try not to drop too much into the boiler and wrap the thread with PTFE tape, 5 to 7 turns in the right direction then fit it. You don't need to have it fully tightened when using PTFE, in fact it's more likely to leak if it is.

P.S. Support the boiler really well!


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## bluealex

I've tested to drop the temp, it still does the same thing. Starts leaking at lower temps when powering on.

i will try to replace the safety valve and see if this fixes the problem.

thank you all for your kind help!

p.s is it safe(ish)? To use the machine until fixed?


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## MediumRoastSteam

bluealex said:


> p.s is it safe(ish)? To use the machine until fixed?


 Yes. It's fine.

But please, before you buy a new safety valve, make sure it IS the safety valve. Best to be sure!


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## bluealex

Hello,

today after about two months i recieved a new safety valve for my bianca. I also ordered a anti vac valve just in case!

the safety valve i recieved is not the same as the one i found online or the current one in my bianca. I ordered the parts from the same store i purchased my bianca and they also do repairs etc.

here is a picture of the valve i got from them. Any experts know if this valve is the same or suitable for my bianca? Its much longer than the current one.

thanks alot!


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## MediumRoastSteam

bluealex said:


> Hello,
> 
> today after about two months i recieved a new safety valve for my bianca. I also ordered a anti vac valve just in case!
> 
> the safety valve i recieved is not the same as the one i found online or the current one in my bianca. I ordered the parts from the same store i purchased my bianca and they also do repairs etc.
> 
> here is a picture of the valve i got from them. Any experts know if this valve is the same or suitable for my bianca? Its much longer than the current one.
> 
> thanks alot!
> 
> View attachment 61841


 What's the concern?

A quick google tells me it's just fine.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-bianca-safety-valve.html

https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/safety-valve-pl162t-3bar-1-8-9700050

(I google the part code)


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## bluealex

MediumRoastSteam said:


> What's the concern?
> 
> A quick google tells me it's just fine.
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/lelit-bianca-safety-valve.html
> 
> https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/safety-valve-pl162t-3bar-1-8-9700050
> 
> (I google the part code)


 I'm no expert and its not the same as the bella-barista one or the one currently in the machine. Just asking if anyone knows that its safe to use and correct part.


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## MediumRoastSteam

bluealex said:


> I'm no expert and its not the same as the bella-barista one or the one currently in the machine. Just asking if anyone knows that its safe to use and correct part.


 I'm no expert either. But a safety valve is a safety valve. It's rated to 3bar, as it should. So if it fits, happy days. 🙂


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## bluealex

Replaced the safety valve. Everything is working fine again! Thanks everyone for the help!


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## yahyoh

Sadly i have been having the same issue lately after around 1 year of owning Bianca, 
I tried to remove the VBV tube and i could hear some hissing coming out of it but the outlet kept dripping after removing the tube, so it must be the safety valve? can both valve break at the same time huh?









IMG_1366.MOV







drive.google.com


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## yahyoh

Do you think this VBV parts should work with Bianca? 



https://english.sulalat.com/vacuum-breaker-replacement-kit.html


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## yahyoh

Update: today i got the replacement safety valve...and it was a damn hard job to get some tool to remove it without disassembling half of the machine lol.
( i hope Lelit reconsider the ease maintenance in their future machines) cause everything seems so tightly fitted.
After installing it and after replacing the the o ring for the VBV, everything seems working perfectly.
I'm still baffled how the hell the VBV and safety valve broke at the same time!!

BTW the new safety valve seems a longer version than the previous installed one.


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## Rincewind

yahyoh said:


> ...
> After installing it and after replacing the the o ring for the VBV, everything seems working perfectly...


Excellent news, enjoy your coffee ☕


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