# Mahlkonig Vario or Eureka Zenith Club-E



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Morning All

Decided that I am definitely going the on-demand grinder route and wondered what you all thought about the relative merits/disadvantages of the two listed above.

Both similar cost (around the £350 mark).

For me - ease of use is going to outweigh the end product. I'm not searching for the ultimate espresso, just something that is nice to drink.

Paired with Sage Dual Boiler and replacing a Mazzer Super Jolly.

Any advice gratefully received, but please be gentle


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Helllo , am presuming this is an espresso only grinder... Not being used for any brewed at all


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Sorry, yes.

I do have a small french press which I bought to make coffee at work, so if it were possible to grind for this it would be a bonus, but not the main objective.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Both are inferior to the SJ, and I hate mazzers! To get a decent on demand you need to up your budget. You really need 64 mm burrs as a minimum but since the grinder is more important than the machine, why set a budget of one third for it?


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Can you define "decent" and what budget would be required? If fear that, just as I doubt my ability to tell the difference between a £50 and a £100 bottle of wine, I would be unlikely to notice the benefit of a £700 grinder over one for half as much. Happy to be corrected.

Machine bought for


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Zenith is a sideways or slight downward step from the Mazzer SJ so if built in OD is important then your money will go on that feature alone, you wont see any wonders in the cup. The Vario is a certain step down, so ill advised.

Have you done all the retention mods to your SJ, and have you considered an Auber Timer box?

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=298


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

NickdeBug said:


> I doubt my ability to tell the difference between a £50 and a £100 bottle of wine


What about the difference between a £5 bottle and a £20 bottle?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I can't tell you if you will think that vario is a step down from the sj..ive not owned one or had them side by side... There are some advocates if the vario on here. Glenn being one , perhaps ask him to benchmark the in the cup quality....


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> What about the difference between a £5 bottle and a £20 bottle?


£5 bottle of wine = 58% tax.

Subtract the cost of bottling, labelling, shipping, margins for suppliers/resellers/retailers etc. the actually cost of the wine is pence.

£20 bottle of wine = 27% tax.

Significantly more of what you are buying goes on the product itself.

In short - yes, I can tell the difference between a £5 bottle and a £20 bottle, but if I couldn't, I would buy the £5 one.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I read that's the biggest incremental jump in improvement in taste/quality and going over £20 brings an element of diminishing returns. No idea if it's true though


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I'd agree with that over £20, but then I'm no expert and there are some notable exceptions like a bottle of Musar or a nice vintage of Bordeaux.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

But anyway owning a Vario for a few years now the pros are small footprint, easy to clean, minimal retention. Cons are the grind quality just isn't really there, and switching between brew methods doesn't work - just leave it dialled in for espresso.

I haven't owned an SJ but have seen many and feel this would be a significant step down.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Sounds about right jeebsy. Not that I buy £20 wine that often!

Aaronb - you seem to be using a Vario grinder with, what is widely regarded as, a kick-ass machine. Any issues to speak of?


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## ahirsty (Jan 9, 2014)

I have owned the Vario. It's extremely good if you are looking for a small machine and you can dose very neatly. The retention is tiny also. However I found it acceptable at best when it comes to the grind. The adjustment mechanism moves around so I could never dial in properly. I never had that issue with my Mignon.

If easy of use if important to you it's hard to beat but it comes at a price..


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

whoops - got ahead of things there. Thanks for the info


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes, I honestly feel I'm not getting the best out of the L1 with the vario.

Ideally I'd like a versalab or so, but alas I am skint


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Dylan said:


> Zenith is a sideways or slight downward step from the Mazzer SJ so if built in OD is important then your money will go on that feature alone, you wont see any wonders in the cup. The Vario is a certain step down, so ill advised.
> 
> Have you done all the retention mods to your SJ, and have you considered an Auber Timer box?
> 
> http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=298


Thanks Dylan. yes, I have tried all the mods for the SJ. Still prefer the idea of something I can just "vend" coffee on demand. Possibly not for the purist, but I think I might have mentioned before that my standards aren't going to match some others.

The auberin timer looks interesting, but it seems to be a slightly less elegant way of producing an on demand grinder. If I can have sideways or slightly downward quality with the neat package of the Zenith, then that might be the way to go.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It is indeed much less elegant. I installed the timer into the body of my SJ, but its a bit of a project!

Ignoring price, if I were given the option of a SJ or Zenith the Zenith would be the clear choice.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Dylan said:


> It is indeed much less elegant. I installed the timer into the body of my SJ, but its a bit of a project!


Blimey! How did you manage that? It looked like a fairly large bit of kit in the video with the Mazzer mini.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The project box it is in has a lot of spare space, the actual timer is fairly deep, but there is plenty of space in the body of the SJ to house it. Have a look at this thread as I posted a couple of pics there.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

NickdeBug said:


> Blimey! How did you manage that? It looked like a fairly large bit of kit in the video with the Mazzer mini.


It is a large piece of kit....the box outside is a neater job imo


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Impressive stuff, and well beyond my abilities.

I can build a house, but I leave all the fiddly bits to other people. Should be better at this really as my job is all about precision. Typically with micro-organisms rather than electronics though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

BB have the Club E and 65E. I think the one most forum owners have is the latter as it was on special. It is only a few quid more, perhaps it is worth comparing specs


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

I was actually looking at the Club-E from Elekros.it.

It works out at £355, inc short hopper and delivery.

Only real downside seems to be the Schuko plug.

Works out about £200 more to buy the 65E from BB (Club-E out of stock), so quite a jump in price.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

NickdeBug said:


> I was actually looking at the Club-E from Elekros.it.
> 
> It works out at £355, inc short hopper and delivery.
> 
> ...


That's a steal at that price. Wire a decent plug on yourself and youre laughing


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

You can get schuko adaptors, just ensure it has a ground and is rated at 13a or whatever the grinder needs.

Just remember though if it breaks and you bought it in the UK you are covered by Sale of Goods Act, if it breaks and you bought it abroad how expensive is postage?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Who's had a grinder break?


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

You mentioned that ease of use is important in your first post. I am using a zenith 65 at the moment and it really is amazingly easy and fast to do the whole grind procedure. I am using the hopper (no single dosing) and the timer which is pretty accurate and now I only check that the ground weight is accurate every three days or so. Even compared to the Versalab it is easier for me but then again the versalab has other big benefits.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.

On a bit of an impulse I purchased one of the La Scala machines for sale on eBay this evening. Hopefully it fits the bill but I have this awful vision of me cleaning up ground coffee as it jets from the grinder at a rate of knots!

Thanks again.


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