# Quickmill veloce two weeks on the chaps bench



## coffeechap

This will be the space that I will use to do my thoughts and feelings of the new quickmill veloce lever machine. First up are a few photos of the machine in situ









First impressions are quite positive, I have pulled a couple of shots on it already and would say they are fairly comparable to the shots from the L1, I won't go into the build quality as yet as I plan to strip it down and do an in depth review, so this is just a taster to get you all going as this is the only one in the country at present!!


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## Xpenno

Looking good! Can't wait for the in-depth thoughts


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## iroko

Looking forward to what you think.


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## Thecatlinux

Looks like it is quite a tall machine , would you say its comparable in size to similar machines ?


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## Jason1wood

Looks great, just like my Verona chassis but with lever.

Jealous!!!!!


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## jeebsy

I'm sure this has been asked many times, but what cups are those? D'Ancaps?


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## Geordie Boy

Looking forward to your thoughts. Do you have any idea whether there's any planned changes between what you're reviewing and the full production model?


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## Charliej

jeebsy said:


> I'm sure this has been asked many times, but what cups are those? D'Ancaps?


The cups are the carrot orange Inkers I believe.


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## jeebsy

Have never seen them for sale before, love a bit of orange too


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## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Have never seen them for sale before, love a bit of orange too


Seen them in the flesh, they would be right up your street mate!


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## 4085

I believe the review period is to try and help refine the production model. This is just a prototype.


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## welshrarebit

Beautiful machine, look forward to reading the results of this.


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## coffeechap

Geordie Boy said:


> Looking forward to your thoughts. Do you have any idea whether there's any planned changes between what you're reviewing and the full production model?


Rodney is very keen to get my feedback soonest, so a lot of my time over the next week will be spent on this machine, early doors I think there is room for improvement in the machine which I will expand on in the first of the in depth write ups that I do, whether bella barista or indeed quickmill decide to act upon my suggestions will remain to be seen. What I can say is that Rodney is very keen on the machine being right and being the best the can be so am optimistic of a couple of changes.


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## Mrboots2u

Can we add questions here for you to feedback on ?


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## coffeechap

Happy for people to throw up any questions that they would like answered about this machine here


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## dsc

Surely you need a better grinder than the Versalab for testing









Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap

I agree tom.....


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## dsc

Well now that I moved I might be closer to you, so might be possible for me to drop over...still waiting for that address over txt!









Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap

Here is the photo that everyone has been waiting for the two matadors side by side...









On the left the quickmill on the right the Londinium 1


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## Thecatlinux

Is that another L1 as opposed to the 2 I saw ?


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## 4085

Dave, can you post the respective height and width measurements please? Hard to tell from the photos but they look reasonably similar. And on the Veloce, how much of the top is available for cups when you lift whatever lid there is to fill the tank


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> Is that another L1 as opposed to the 2 I saw ?


That is a brand new one with the white dial


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## FranEW

coffeechap said:


> That is a brand new one with the white dial


I'm enjoying the white dial


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## coffeechap

Quickmill

44.5 cm front to back.

38.5 cm high.

31 cm wide

Londinium

54 cm front to back

34.5 cm high

33 cm wide

So L1 had a bigger fro print than the quickmill but more on the footprint of the quickmill soon

Cup Space on quickmill 27cm wide by 17 cm deep

L1 18x33


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## Daren

What's the height to the top of the levers Dave?


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## coffeechap

Daren said:


> What's the height to the top of the levers Dave?


Quickmill 71 cm

L1 74 cm


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## Thecatlinux

Not coffee chap more like lucky chap


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## Mrboots2u

Wanna see clips of flex and leverage needed to pull it

How quick it recovers from steaming say 300-500ml

How quick the group can be got to temp , not the pid but the group .

How it handles back to back shots

...please


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## c_squared

Does the PID, in your opinion, serve any function that benefits the 'cup'?


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## 4085

I must admit, I still cannot get my head around the pid when I think the machine has a thermosyphon. I suppose the question would be can the MQ (thinking pids only) do anything the L1 cannot.......f not, then take it out and put the saving towards something else!


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## hotmetal

Wow! Beautiful machines! I must now quickly look away before I start thinking it would be a good idea to wish for something I can't afford and don't know how to use!!! Enjoy! (As I'm sure you will).


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## c_squared

dfk41 said:


> I must admit, I still cannot get my head around the pid when I think the machine has a thermosyphon. I suppose the question would be can the MQ (thinking pids only) do anything the L1 cannot.......f not, then take it out and put the saving towards something else!


Pretty much what I meant, you put it much clearer though!


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## iroko

coffeechap said:


> Quickmill
> 
> 44.5 cm front to back.
> 
> 38.5 cm high.
> 
> 31 cm wide
> 
> Londinium
> 
> 54 cm front to back
> 
> 34.5 cm high
> 
> 33 cm wide
> 
> So L1 had a bigger fro print than the quickmill but more on the footprint of the quickmill soon
> 
> Cup Space on quickmill 27cm wide by 17 cm deep
> 
> L1 18x33


Any tipping issues with the shorter chassis.


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## coffeechap

Day two observations....

This is a good machine folks, it has certain issues that I won't go into until I have spoken to Rodney, to see if they can be addressed before it goes into mass production, but in its current form it is still a very competent and capable lever machine.

I have not done exact heat up time but I will do when I next for her up from cold, needless to say it is ready to pull a shot within 20 mins ( group up to temp and stable ) so not as fast as the L1 but no slouch, this may be improved with a larger element which bella barista have informed the will consider fitting (2000 watt) currently has 1700 watts. I would still recommend a good 30 minutes for complete heat up of the machine.

It is really quiet folks, something that has impressed me, as the PID regulates the temperature of the steam boiler, instead of a pressure stat, there is no hissing every now and again as with the L1, in fact you just don't know it is on unless the vibe pump kicks in, which is on par in terms of noise with the L1, perhaps a little quieter but I will monitor that closer soon.

The machine seems thermically stable as it uses a thermosyphon but until I actually test the temperature I cannot be sure, however the quality of the shot is right up there with the L1 and so it should be as the group is identical.

I will put up some videos of flex on the front of the machine when I get time, but this machine does flex somewhat, whether this can be improved will remain to be seen, however it does not effect the functionality of the machine. The steam wand is excellent, plenty of steam and plenty of clearance to get your cup underneath, it comes with a three hole tip as standard which produces wonderful microfoam easily.









I will also get some video of shots being pulled and do some measurements of recovery time between shots and steaming, panel off shots will be done and thorough examination of build quality, but for now I will leave it at that. Overall a very good beginning to what a I think will be an enjoyable two weeks with this machine.


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## Xpenno

Sounding pretty positive on the whole, nice


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## CamV6

Interesting. I think the QM is easier on the eye personally.

Does it have the option to be plumbed in ?


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## 4085

Cam, no plumb in option yet. QM can do it but they want an order of 12. I believe the ratio of plumbed in L1 to reservoir was about 10:1. It is early days though for this machine.


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## NickR

dfk41 said:


> I must admit, I still cannot get my head around the pid when I think the machine has a thermosyphon. I suppose the question would be can the MQ (thinking pids only) do anything the L1 cannot.......f not, then take it out and put the saving towards something else!


I can see the point of the PID. With a conventional lever machine. If you want to try a different temperature you can only go down from the temp the manufacturer has decided upon (or fiddle with the pressure stat). A PID will allow free range. Ultimately it should improve reliability -mechanical pressure stats do fail. Also the zero voltage switching of the power to the element with a PID means less stress and possibly a longer life. The PID display though is very ugly, perhaps the Quickmill badge could be made to cover it, while being easy to detach.

I like the look of the QM, but somehow the dimensions of the L1 are more satisfying to the eye. The lower box shows of the lever better and the width just looks right. The QM looks a bit thin and tall, and the extra 10cm of depth on the L1 may prove to be important.


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## coffeechap

The PID will not allow for quick adjustments to the temperature of the group due to its thermal mass and it would require a significant amount of time and calculation to work out what a drop or increase in temp on the PID does to the temperture of the group and how long those changes come into being, it really is not needed on lever machines, however it does make adjustment of pressure very easy especially as the machine has a boiler pressure guage as well as the PID and as I previously mentioned it makes the machine extremely quiet. I agree that the PID display and is ugly and one of my recommendation is to perhaps mount it on the side of the machine so that adjustments can be made easilly and quickly yet the simplicity and elegance of the machine is not compromised.


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## coffeechap

quick little update on this, as this is the prototype, it will probably not be the same machine that goes out into production, there will various tweeks done to this that will improve it and hopefully not push the price up. Having spoken to Claudette today, I was very impressed with how receptive they are to the suggestions that are being put forward, all of which will improve the feel and performance of the machine.


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## Charliej

What's the spring setup on the Veloce Dave?


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## coffeechap

Single spring exactly the same as the l1, two spring variant is just two much for home machines


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## shrink

So how about some update on this then? Since it's now going to a forum member, perhaps you can let us in on the few wee downsides you mentioned.

Also how's the temp stability, steam power and recovery? I remember on my cherub I could just open up the steam wand and it could blast steam until the water ran out! How does this one keep up with a smaller element?


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## coffeechap

I won't publish my findings on this machine as it is not going into production like this, however I will explain everything to the winner in the raffle, I will be completing a full review of the updated machine once it gets here!

Needless to say the recovery time is not bad, but will improve when the 2000 watt element is fitting, you could steam a litre of milk in this no problem at all, it is temperature stable and comparable in stability to the bezzera Strega. Hope this helps.


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## Mrboots2u

Lol and of £20 it would be the steal on the year ......


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## 7493

Loving this! Thanks for all the observations.


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## Dano

I saw someone else ask this question, but I didn't see a reply. Does the reduced depth compared to the L1 cause any stability issues while pulling the lever? The reduced depth would be perfect for the location of my machine, but if it will be an issue I can find some place else for it.


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## 4085

Dano, there have been a lot of changes made to the demo machine. The first batch are due around the end of the month so if you can hang fire just a bit.....


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## Dano

So I ordered mine yesterday. It appears they didn't change the depth from the original measurements so we will see how this affect stability. I spoke w/ a very helpful chap at BB who said they had done some pulls with the machine and that it seemed to be everything they were hoping for. I'm pretty stoked to receive it. I had to leave my Andreja back in the States when we moved over to Europe, and I have been feeling very deprived (there are way to many Jura super autos in use at the cafes over here.) I didn't realize when I ordered that the PID is gone and it appears they went back to a pressure stat. This isn't to big a deal, but just something to realize. I'll put up a post on my impressions after I've had a chance to run it through it's paces.


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## 4085

Good stuff Dano.......I received mine today. You will not be dissapointed!


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## coffeechap

Dano said:


> So I ordered mine yesterday. It appears they didn't change the depth from the original measurements so we will see how this affect stability. I spoke w/ a very helpful chap at BB who said they had done some pulls with the machine and that it seemed to be everything they were hoping for. I'm pretty stoked to receive it. I had to leave my Andreja back in the States when we moved over to Europe, and I have been feeling very deprived (there are way to many Jura super autos in use at the cafes over here.) I didn't realize when I ordered that the PID is gone and it appears they went back to a pressure stat. This isn't to big a deal, but just something to realize. I'll put up a post on my impressions after I've had a chance to run it through it's paces.


Although they did not change the depth, what they have done is strengthened the chassis and added a little more ballast to offset ant tipping issues. I will get the evaluation one on Tuesday and will begin an extensive evaluation of the machine, I will start a new thread detailing this.


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## Dano

coffeechap said:


> Although they did not change the depth, what they have done is strengthened the chassis and added a little more ballast to offset ant tipping issues. I will get the evaluation one on Tuesday and will begin an extensive evaluation of the machine, I will start a new thread detailing this.


I'm OK w/ the shallow depth, as long as there is no tipping issue this will be perfect when I take it back to the States. I have a small nook where I kept my Andreja and my grinder, but the counter there is a little shallow. This is the perfect place though as it is right next to the breaker box making it very easy to wire a 220v outlet.


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## mathof

coffeechap said:


> Although they did not change the depth, what they have done is strengthened the chassis and added a little more ballast to offset ant tipping issues. I will get the evaluation one on Tuesday and will begin an extensive evaluation of the machine, I will start a new thread detailing this.


Did you ever start that thread? I can't find it, but I would love to read a thorough review of this machine (as I'm quite keen to get one).

Matt


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## coffeechap

Unfortunately no, but not for lack of wanting to do it, the initial machine had certain temperature issues that I believe have now been resolved, perhaps I will get a perfect one to evaluate when bella Batista have one available. I did not think it would do the machine credit with the problems that it had.


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## mathof

Thanks. I may wait for that. Temperature stability is very important to me. It's one of my bugbears with the La Pavoni from which I would be upgrading.

Matt


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## coffeechap

If temperature stability and rock solid performance are your want, plus easy fit service panels and the most solid frame of absolutely any home lever then why not get an l1?


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## 4085

I guess size might factor in. The temp stability which was the only issue it had, seems to be sorted. The L1 is a monster in comparison. Remember, the boiler on the Veloce is vertical so the machine is compact. The L1, which I greatly admire is a big boy. Also, the Veloce has a 2 year warranty which is quite canny. There is not much popping off of panels needed for servicing as most of the thins you need to twiddle with are external.


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## coffeechap

Lets be straight, getting into the veloce is a pain in the arse, you need to get into the top to get to the pressure stat which needs adjustment now and again, temp was not the only issue as it still has a tendancy to tip forward, the l1 is not as high as the veloce but is deeper ( which makes the platform A LOT more stable than the veloce) . The boiler is mounted horizontally on the l1 for a reason, lower centre of gravity = more stability. No flex at all on the L1 but the bit I agree with is that the veloce comes with a two year warranty! ( just being completely honest here). Oh L1 has wooden handles as well, but does cost more money.


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## mathof

My reasons for prefering the Veloce were that it is cheaper and smaller than tne L1. But I'll think again.


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## coffeechap

Your reasons still stand it is cheaper and it is less deep


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## 4085

I have never tipped mine yet and I do not have the extra ballast weight fitted. If I want to tip it I can, but why would I? Remember, the L1 is now 2 plus years old, and has ironed out a lot of its problems in that time, if not all. The panels aon the Veloce are a pain, but once the pressure stat is adjusted, and it will be set at the factory correctly, then you will not need to do anything to it


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## coffeechap

Provided they set them correctly that is! Try pulling the lever without holding the portafilter, or perhaps mine was a rogue one, but then then the prototype was the same. I don't want to get into the ins and puts of the problems that the veloce had, but I sincerely hope they have now been ironed out. Yes the l1 is two years old and had ironed out all the problems but this is 6 months in the making now and has been revised nearly as many times as the l1 was!


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## 4515

Is the Veloce available again now ? Supply was one of the reasons I went with the l1. Still very happy with my purchase (and that's not a dig at the veloce)


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## 4085

Cc it is six months in but you know s well as I do that the only revisions to the machine are the retro fitting of the boiler and the supply of a ballast weight. For the record, I never hold the pf handle when pulling a shot. Come round sometime and I will show you how to do it correctly! The situation is the second 6 machines are on order but it will be next year I think.

People should not compare the two machines really. No one compares the Bosco to the L1 yet they Re readily available and share much


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> Come round sometime and I will show you how to do it correctly!


Really that would make a change!


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## 4085

Well, if mine does not tip, and yours does, you are either doing something wrong or you just do not know how to use your equipment! Either way, I will sort you out..I mean, we. Got to the bottom of the Jampit problem didn't we?


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> People should not compare the two machines really. No one compares the Bosco to the L1 yet they Re readily available and share much


Of course they will compare them Dave, they are both aimed at the home user, which the Bosco most certainly is not! They both share the same group, are tank fed (although L1 is easily plumbable) and both capable of exceptional shots of coffee, the difference comes in the price and what that means. Giving people all of the information will help them make a decision as to which machine best suits their needs.


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> Well, if mine does not tip, and yours does, you are either doing something wrong or you just do not know how to use your equipment! Either way, I will sort you out..I mean, we. Got to the bottom of the Jampit problem didn't we?


Let's not get into a debate about how much we know about pulling shots on lever machines and setting them up!


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## 4085

How far can a camel run into a desert dave?


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> Let's not get into a debate about how much we know about pulling shots on lever machines and setting them up!


Proof is in the pudding mate. Yours with ballast tips cos you are not pulling it properly. Mine without ballast is rock solid. Something wrong somewhere'


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## coffeechap

I must be a lot taller than you Dave


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## Yes Row

dfk41 said:


> How far can a camel run into a desert dave?


What does that mean?


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## 4085

Yes Row said:


> What does that mean?


It is just one of those interminable life questions. Want to know the answer?


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> I must be a lot taller than you Dave


Taller, I could quote a few other things as well, but, you know as well as I do, that if you really want to make a lever machine tip, you can but it is either because your technique is wrong or you are doing it on purpose


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## coffeechap

Ok I will bite, but probably because you want me to anyway, that machine will tip if the lever is pulled straight towards you and not straight down, a COMMON fault done by users of this type of machine, so when I test a machine I will look at it from all different variables, you just do it correctly but probably because you also had the Strega which is also prone to the same thing.

I actually have my lever machine much higher than a standard bench to promote a downward pull, but that said the L1 will not tip under any circumstances, which is testament to a ground up approach instead of bolting a group on a pump machine frame which the veloce is. So yes you are right I have tried to pull that lever in many ways to simulate what a lot of new users to that kind of machine will do, on purpose as that is the point of a thorough test.

So I don't know as well as you Dave because the l1 will not tip, but the veloce will.


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## 4085

Are you saying if I wanted to, I could not tip an L1?


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## coffeechap

You could if you picked it up, but under any of the ways that I have tried to pull the lever no you would not be able to. ( which are all reasonable methods and not tying it to the trailer of your car Dave)


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## 4085

Ah, but you Are tall and skinny whereas I am not


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## MrShades

dfk41 said:


> It is just one of those interminable life questions. Want to know the answer?


Half way... Cus then it's running out ;-)


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## 4085

MrShades said:


> Half way... Cus then it's running out ;-)


Absolutely.....and very true


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> Ah, but you Are tall and skinny whereas I am not


I agree tall and skinny would never be used to describe you Dave


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## Mrboots2u

Mr Kidd must have fallen asleep


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## 4085

Me sleep.....au contraire......I just rang the skinny one and told him he was a big girls blouse


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Me sleep.....au contraire......I just rang the skinny one and told him he was a big girls blouse


Failed late night booty call ?


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## 4085

Those damn 0888 numbers again


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## coffeechap

I got to listen to some war stories and tales of past victories


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## mathof

dfk41 said:


> I have never tipped mine yet and I do not have the extra ballast weight fitted. If I want to tip it I can, but why would I? Remember, the L1 is now 2 plus years old, and has ironed out a lot of its problems in that time, if not all. The panels aon the Veloce are a pain, but once the pressure stat is adjusted, and it will be set at the factory correctly, then you will not need to do anything to it


Can I take it that your Veloce is also temperature stable?


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## 4085

mathof said:


> Can I take it that your Veloce is also temperature stable?


It is indeed. I do not have a scace, so can only blueback a thermometer to the outside of the group. The temp varies by about 5 degrees max at any time, between roughly 79 and 84. I have pulled shots at both those settings and not ad a problem with them. It is not scientific of course, but my tastebuds tell me there are no issues


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## mathof

Well, I decided that temperature stability was so important to me that I would spring for an L1. I've not been disappointed. ? Thanks for the endorsement.

Matt


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