# 1kg Roaster Advice



## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

Morning,

I am after some advice regarding buying a 1kg machine.

I have been roasting on my Behmor 2020 this past year or so and I want to scale up and buy a bigger machine. I have had a few sessions with the Dalian Amazon and a much bigger Roastmax 5kg but that is too big for what I want right now.

The Bullet looks pretty cool, however I want a traditional Roaster. The Giesen W1 looks like a really good piece of kit, especially as it roasts up to 1.5kg. I did email Giesen asking for a price and they sent a very friendly reply saying can we get on a call blah blah, and they didn't give me a price! I get it, I just don't want to talk to reps yet. Does anybody know a rough cost for this machine? Is the Probat Probatino worth looking at? Again it won't be cheap, but I can't find a price.

If anybody can offer any advice on a decent 1kg machine that would be appreciated.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

wheeliehaes said:


> The Giesen W1 looks like a really good piece of kit, especially as it roasts up to 1.5kg. I did email Giesen asking for a price and they sent a very friendly reply saying can we get on a call blah blah, and they didn't give me a price! I get it, I just don't want to talk to reps yet. Does anybody know a rough cost for this machine? Is the Probat Probatino worth looking at? Again it won't be cheap, but I can't find a price.
> 
> If anybody can offer any advice on a decent 1kg machine that would be appreciated.


 Both the roasters you mention are very good, the reason there are no published prices is so they can "sell" you the roaster. I suspect for either roaster, you will be looking at close to 9 or 10K nowadays. The Giesen W1, if configured with the basic reasonable config, roasting cooling at the same time, no automation, will cost around £10K I think.

Probat will have similar pricing.

Welcome to the forum....I have removed the duplicate post for you.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

If you can't afford a Probat, Giesen, Diedrich, etc (and I personally wouldn't spend that money on a 1kg machine, the next step down would be a Mill City (rebranded, reworked Chinese built - but quality built originally North Roasters) and some of the Turkish brands of which Golden (Nazarkahve) and Besca are 2 of the better ones imo.

If you're spending that sort of money I would question buying a 1kg and maybe look at a 2 or 3kg alternative - wouldn't be significantly different in size. If you're looking for something that will be a sample roaster to a larger machine later down the line then fair enough.

If you go slightly larger you could look at Coffed from Poland supposed to be good machines.

Whatever you decide on, make sure you can get parts for when something breaks - which it will at some point.

also don't forget to factor in a decent flue/exhaust - twin wall - will cost you £350-£1000+ depending on length etc.

Cheers Philip

ps - I have a Golden GR1+ hooked up to natural gas in my garage.


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## Dartmoor Coffee (Feb 4, 2020)

The Probat when I looked was £12K from me memory when I enquired last year. Was the far most expensive roaster I looked at. Would have loved it, but for a first commercial roaster well out of price.

Do you have a budget in mind?


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

Dartmoor Coffee said:


> The Probat when I looked was £12K from me memory when I enquired last year. Was the far most expensive roaster I looked at. Would have loved it, but for a first commercial roaster well out of price.
> 
> Do you have a budget in mind?


 Thanks for this, £10k would be my absolute maximum for the right machine. I like the idea of the Giesen as it roasts up to 1.5kg and whatever happens down the line it can either stay with me as a sample roaster or I imagine the re-sale will be decent.


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

Beeroclock said:


> If you can't afford a Probat, Giesen, Diedrich, etc (and I personally wouldn't spend that money on a 1kg machine, the next step down would be a Mill City (rebranded, reworked Chinese built - but quality built originally North Roasters) and some of the Turkish brands of which Golden (Nazarkahve) and Besca are 2 of the better ones imo.
> 
> If you're spending that sort of money I would question buying a 1kg and maybe look at a 2 or 3kg alternative - wouldn't be significantly different in size. If you're looking for something that will be a sample roaster to a larger machine later down the line then fair enough.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for this, will have a good look through your suggestions. My thoughts were a 1kg can stay with me as a sample roaster which is why I am looking specifically at that size machine


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> Both the roasters you mention are very good, the reason there are no published prices is so they can "sell" you the roaster. I suspect for either roaster, you will be looking at close to 9 or 10K nowadays. The Giesen W1, if configured with the basic reasonable config, roasting cooling at the same time, no automation, will cost around £10K I think.
> 
> Probat will have similar pricing.
> 
> Welcome to the forum....I have removed the duplicate post for you.


 Thanks for this, and thanks for deleting my duplicate post 😉


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

wheeliehaes said:


> Thanks for this, and thanks for deleting my duplicate post 😉


 No problem...if you get a cheapish 1kg roaster, but not poor quality, you can use it to find out if you have a business and how large it might be, then decide the size of roaster you want to move up to. Some of the people I taught went to straight to a 5kg roaster, others 10 and some 15kg.


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> No problem...if you get a cheapish 1kg roaster, but not poor quality, you can use it to find out if you have a business and how large it might be, then decide the size of roaster you want to move up to. Some of the people I taught went to straight to a 5kg roaster, others 10 and some 15kg.


 Yes that's exactly my thinking. All the obvious cheap vs expensive arguments to weigh up! Is the Dalian Amazon in the 'cheapish not poor quality' bracket would you say?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

wheeliehaes said:


> Yes that's exactly my thinking. All the obvious cheap vs expensive arguments to weigh up! Is the Dalian Amazon in the 'cheapish not poor quality' bracket would you say?


 I use one and am very happy with the roasts from it....it's also the roaster I train certain people on and they have gone on to have successful businesses after feeling out the market and creating a good reputation with the Dalian. I can't really speak for too many other 1kg roasters, because I have only used the CBR 12001 kg, Toper Cafemino 1kg (I did some heating element development work for them). I have used a 25Kg probat and a smaller probat sample roaster. I have played about with a few others, but wouldn't say I have significant experience.

I have used plenty of little home roasters...but that's not where you are at.


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## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Do your research, the Dalian is an electric roaster with a perforated drum, it behaves very differently to the other roasters you have mentioned. 
Out of the box it has no heat control unless you modify it. But you can run it off a 13amp supply.

If you're looking at cheaper Chinese roasters look at Bideli or Dongyi as well.

Cheers Phil


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> The Giesen W1, if configured with the basic reasonable config, roasting cooling at the same time, no automation, will cost around £10K I think.
> 
> Probat will have similar pricing.


 Spoke with Probat and they put me onto the UK distributor and we had a really good chat today. The Probatino is £15k shipped inc. VAT and full installation, 1 year warranty. Giesen and Diedrich are both sending over a quote after the weekend.

Incredible amount of money for a 1kg machine and naturally there are pros and cons, do you know is it designed to roast 1kg or is the sweet spot much lower? Also, without going flat out how many kg do you think you could comfortably roast in a given week on the Probatino? Just trying to get my head around the numbers. Not a great deal of price difference between the 5 and 12, 12 is £50-55k inc. VAT, shipping and full install.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

wheeliehaes said:


> Spoke with Probat and they put me onto the UK distributor and we had a really good chat today. The Probatino is £15k shipped inc. VAT and full installation, 1 year warranty. Giesen and Diedrich are both sending over a quote after the weekend.
> 
> Incredible amount of money for a 1kg machine and naturally there are pros and cons, do you know is it designed to roast 1kg or is the sweet spot much lower? Also, without going flat out how many kg do you think you could comfortably roast in a given week on the Probatino? Just trying to get my head around the numbers. Not a great deal of price difference between the 5 and 12, 12 is £50-55k inc. VAT, shipping and full install.


 I think to part with that sort of money for a name brand 1kg roaster is not sensible. *The 1Kg roaster is to see if you have a business, and it's easy to sell if you don't get a hugely expensive one.* Within 12 months you will know whether you have a business or not and will be searching out a 5-15Kg roaster. You may or may not keep the 1kg roaster for a while.

As for will they roast 1kg? I would hope so, the Amazon Dalian sweet spot is about 1Kg, although you can roast 1.2Kg per batch in it...which outputs 1kg roasted. Quite often it's the larger roasters e.g. a 25kg roaster, which won't like roasting 15Kg (I'm talking about an old 60s gas Probat here).

You have had my advice already....for what it's worth..


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> I think to part with that sort of money for a name brand 1kg roaster is not sensible. *The 1Kg roaster is to see if you have a business, and it's easy to sell if you don't get a hugely expensive one.* Within 12 months you will know whether you have a business or not and will be searching out a 5-15Kg roaster. You may or may not keep the 1kg roaster for a while.
> 
> As for will they roast 1kg? I would hope so, the Amazon Dalian sweet spot is about 1Kg, although you can roast 1.2Kg per batch in it...which outputs 1kg roasted. Quite often it's the larger roasters e.g. a 25kg roaster, which won't like roasting 15Kg (I'm talking about an old 60s gas Probat here).
> 
> You have had my advice already....for what it's worth..


 Yes I agree, it's strong money considering the Diedrich IR-2.5 is £14k delivered, just waiting to hear back if there is VAT on there or if that's an inclusive price. Your advice is most welcome and I appreciate every bit of it!


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## Jack121 (Mar 31, 2021)

Hey,

personally I would not spend that sort of money on a 1kg machine, it really depends on why you want a 1kg if it's to learn gas roasting that could then be used as a sampling machine then a huky , cormorant, or kaldi with smaller capacity would work better without a lot of wastage, if you are already confident you are well grounded in your knowledge and want to go try commercial roasting then get a much larger machine as 1kg would be very limiting not to mention far harder for consistency if you were to have orders amounting to 20kg a day that would mean 6 hours stuck on the machine a day you would then need time for all the other aspects involved so maybe 8hours total, that does not leave a lot of time to do much else to grow a business, it would also take forever to pay off your initial investment, and you would be hard pushed to take on many if any coffee shops for wholesale.

if you did want a commercial 1kg a modded Dalian, a gr1, topper, north etc would be a better business decision in my opinion. But I would skip a 1kg unless you have a very specific need for that capacity for business, it would be like buying a Lamborghini as your pizza delivery vehicle sexy but not practical or financial viable as a business.

just my 2 pence for what it's worth.


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## wheeliehaes (Apr 30, 2021)

Jack121 said:


> Hey,
> 
> personally I would not spend that sort of money on a 1kg machine, it really depends on why you want a 1kg if it's to learn gas roasting that could then be used as a sampling machine then a huky , cormorant, or kaldi with smaller capacity would work better without a lot of wastage, if you are already confident you are well grounded in your knowledge and want to go try commercial roasting then get a much larger machine as 1kg would be very limiting not to mention far harder for consistency if you were to have orders amounting to 20kg a day that would mean 6 hours stuck on the machine a day you would then need time for all the other aspects involved so maybe 8hours total, that does not leave a lot of time to do much else to grow a business, it would also take forever to pay off your initial investment, and you would be hard pushed to take on many if any coffee shops for wholesale.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Jack, yes agreed - just exploring all the options and I put feelers out for quotes so thought I would share my findings. The Diedrich IR-2.5 appeals at similar money, but like you say I might just skip to a bigger machine and future proof. Got a couple of months to decide so plenty of reading etc to follow!


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