# Lance's Latest YouTube: https://youtu.be/kOSbOZY_tN0



## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Interesting .. and unlike Hoffman, Lance is very responsive.. anyways I thought the Vesuvius is ideal for this so I set a flat 6 bar profile with no pre-infusion and, to be honest, so far so mediocre.. anyone else tried this at home?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Without looking at it id say go coarser and use a spouted pf.

Google kaffee crem. Its a long shot run through to like 150ml lol


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

It's not an Alonge or mellange it's a turbo shot.

15-22 sec for 1-3 ratio or close to that. The coffee hits higher flows in the cup (3.5-6g/s). and half of the time of the shot is some sort of preinfusion.

20 sec total shot:
8-10 sec preinfusion at 5-6g/s

8-10 sec extraction for 50 g out of 18g dose= 5-6g/s

The benefits:

higher extractions,more intensity and more flavors

clean puck if you look at the bottom of the puck

clarity of flavours easier to pick things in the bean/on the bag

you reduce channeling- you increase the flow and decrease the puck resistance to the point there isn't much restriction by the puck so the water can flow easier inside, w/o favoring sides or one channel.

The negative:

- bad on other things than lighter roasts-

- bad on low extraction grinders- for example conicals in general-

- lower body-mouthfeel- in general these shots have a greater ratio, if you want 1-2 ratio you will end up with a 14-15 sec shot.

- with anything than light roasts- it tastes bad- harsh- aftertaste and dry-

This type of shots was first on ek43 stock burrs, before there was any SSP. There is one guy that comes into my mind but I am not really an user here and I dont know if he has an account here, I know he is from Uk, his name is Ashton, he had an ek43 and breville dual boiler, pulling turbo shots for many many years now.

These shots are really popular on so named unimodal burrs, 64mm brew burrs, 64mm multi-purpose and 98mm high uniformity. They can also work a bit on other grinders, but they are perfect for those burrs, meaning you get outstanding results with them.

https://visualizer.coffee/shots/59d49ca5-8098-44b1-b157-38694afe622c


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Denis S said:


> 15-22 sec for 1-3 ratio or close to that.


 Or, as it's been known for some decades, an espresso


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## Denis S (Jul 31, 2020)

Espresso is 1-2 ratio in 25-30 sec, not 1-3 ratio in 15-22 sec.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Denis S said:


> Espresso is 1-2 ratio in 25-30 sec, not 1-3 ratio in 15-22 sec.


 Only if that is how you make it. Historically, ratio & time has had much wider variations.

Many people have been making 1:3 shots in less than 25s, we just call(ed) it, "nice espresso".


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## daveandmairi (Jul 22, 2020)

I am a convert. I had to mess around with the preinfusion on my machine as I don't have any other way to achieve the 6 bar pressure. Definitely not one for a naked PF. MESSY!


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Denis S said:


> It's not an Alonge or mellange it's a turbo shot.
> 
> 15-22 sec for 1-3 ratio or close to that. The coffee hits higher flows in the cup (3.5-6g/s). and half of the time of the shot is some sort of preinfusion.
> 
> ...


 I was just wondering why Lance Hendrik was using a niche to do this shot on the you tube video if , like you say, " it's not good on low extraction grinders for example conicals in general"? Also I get really good results with decaf using this method which are definitely not light roasts, it seems to get rid of all the bitterness very often associated with them.😀


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## mathof (Mar 24, 2012)

Denis S said:


> Espresso is 1-2 ratio in 25-30 sec, not 1-3 ratio in 15-22 sec.


 According to La Cimbali (who ought to know):

The perfect Italian espresso?



Around 7 g ground coffee


Pressure: 8-10 bar


Extraction time: 25 seconds


Quantity: 25 ml of espresso in the cup


I make that a brew ratio of 7:25 (or about 1:3.6).

https://www.cimbali.com/recipes/coffee-tutorial/espresso-italiano

The 1:2 ratio seems to be a Third Wave formulation.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Irisco said:


> I was just wondering why Lance Hendrik was using a niche to do this shot on the you tube video if , like you say, " it's not good on low extraction grinders for example conicals in general"? Also I get really good results with decaf using this method which are definitely not light roasts, it seems to get rid of all the bitterness very often associated with them.😀


 Depends who your talk to , how they measure extraction and what they class as low extractions or if they highest numbers really count in your presence

Rao will use a niche and a decent and get "high extractions"


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## MattP1 (Apr 14, 2021)

I tried this morning, second attempt got 1:3 in 20s on a HX E61 machine. Flow started around 6-7s, not preinfusion as such just time to pressure.

Tasted fine and I like the idea of a slightly bigger drink. I've never quite understood how a 30-36g double shot could be split into two singles, the volume would be tiny.

If I use the glass pictured with a 'standard' shot I tend to add a splash of water so for me this method possibly adds more wiggle room for consistency.

I've struggled to dial-in what I think a good espresso should taste like so this is an interesting approach of how to adjust things and still get the right results.

I will keep trying it this week.


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## emc2 (Aug 21, 2016)

> On 13/07/2021 at 22:16, daveandmairi said:
> 
> I am a convert. I had to mess around with the preinfusion on my machine as I don't have any other way to achieve the 6 bar pressure. Definitely not one for a naked PF. MESSY!


 I am a convert too. This has radically changed my understanding of espresso extraction. I was experimenting with the preinfusion only extraction on my sage DB before I came across this post and the results didn't make sense to me. With power of 85% I was getting a pressure of 9 bar. I thought that reducing the power to 80% would reduce the pressure and increase brewing time for the same ratio of 1:3. Although the pressure fell, the flow increased significantly with huge reduction in brew time for the same ratio. Reducing the power to 75% reduced pressure but also flow and increased brew time. I couldn't understand what was going on but now it makes complete sense.

I have found that for the coffee that I'm currently using tastes best at 80% power giving 5-6 bar pressure and 1:3 in about 20 seconds. The acidity is lively and there is no bitterness.

Here is the link to the original paper if anyone is interested.

https://www.cell.com/matter/pdfExtended/S2590-2385(19)30410-2


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