# Urgent help needed Descaling Astoria... Gone MASSIVELY wrong...



## Mouse (Feb 28, 2014)

Hello all,

I hope one of you can help/advise!!

I've been descaling my Astoria this afternoon, all was going well until the final flush.

I was overfilling the boiler, the steam wand was slightly open and I was waiting for water to drain through the wand before stopping the water/filling.

The black dome (Sorry, I don't know the official term..) Started leaking. I assume that this is some sort of pressure relief valve underneath which when needed, releases excess fluid which then drains down the tube attached into the drain tray situated at the base of the machine.









It looks as though this black plastic cap has become brittle/broken down over time and todays descale was a step too far...

After the initial panic!! I've now been able to drain down and refill the boiler a few times to dilute and get rid of the citric acid but I have a couple of questions.

Am I still able to safely use the machine with the cap not functioning?

What is this black cap/dome called? What is it's function?

Has anyone got any idea as to where I can source one of these?

Tanks for any advice given, Matt


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

Hi mouse,

I'm renovating an Astoria right now...

The black plastic cap is purely to keep the water in if the pressure valve blows. They degrade over time with temp changes, so what has happened to yours is not unusual. Those pressure relief valves are rated at 1.9bar, so will normally blow at mains pressure - so you've proved it is working, which is fine. The black plastic in no way affects their operation. Mine has the same valves but no black plastic cover (see pics over on the restoration thread I have up on here).

So,you are safe to use the machine without it. If the boiler overheats without it then it will spray over the machine, but far better that than exploding... I hope you have it on a safety circuit breaker?

Replacement bases are readily available and easy to fit. The part comes with a base that fits under the valve, and the top cover. Hard to be certain from the photo but I'd guess the base only has gone - a few quid at most.

I'll dig out a couple of Internet sources for replacements shortly as I've got them on the other PC - but I'd highly recommend getting in touch with espressotechno on this very forum who's been invaluable in sourcing bits for me. He'll be able to help I'm sure.

Colin


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

From the bead of water around the other OPV it looks as if that one is leaking as well.

It would probably be a good idea to take them both apart and clean the inside of any scale or debris.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The safety valve under the black cap, good idea to get a new one, you could clean the vacuum breaker once you split it, but it will probably start leaking again fairly soon, either replace the seal, if you can get the part, or pop in a new vacuum breaker. Then you'll be good to go for years to come.


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

El carajillo said:


> From the bead of water around the other OPV it looks as if that one is leaking as well.
> 
> It would probably be a good idea to take them both apart and clean the inside of any scale or debris.


The other OPV is the vacuum breaker valve - worth cleaning but may not be leaking.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Recommend you don't bother dismantling & cleaning the 2 boiler safety valves - it's very difficult to rebuild them to the correct (1.8-1.9 bar) setting.

Wait until you fire up the Astoria, when you will find out which valve(s) leaks. Then fit new one(s).

CMA (Astoria, Costa, Wega) fit 2 boiler safety valves - all other manufacturers fit 1.....Hey Ho !

PS Do take the opportunity to remove the water level probe for a good clean up.


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## Mouse (Feb 28, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> From the bead of water around the other OPV it looks as if that one is leaking as well.
> 
> It would probably be a good idea to take them both apart and clean the inside of any scale or debris.


The boiler was brimmed at this point - The OPV is weeping because of this, so I'm not overly concerned about that. Thanks for spotting it though









Colin - You're a star!!! It's good to know that I've got a fellow Astoria owner on the forum







Is yours the thread on the rebuild that I read a while ago? How are you getting on?

Espressotechno and Dave, Thanks for the advice - Much appreciated.

Espressotechno, are you able to source the cap that goes over one of the boiler safety valves?

Cheers, Matt


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

Mouse said:


> It's good to know that I've got a fellow Astoria owner on the forum
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Matt,

Likewise, I thought I was the only nutter with a 6L commercial boiler machine at home! Which model is yours? Yes, I think that thread must be mine. It's going slowly but well, I'm really enjoying taking my time over it - hopefully will get water back in it this weekend.

Have a look here: http://www.cafeparts.com/listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?CategoryID=1350, then on the *words* 'Espresso Machines', then 'Astoria CMA | Laurentis | Rio', then 'Boiler with extractable exhanger' (which I think is your model mut the parts are largely interchangeable), then finally click the diagram and you should see the parts labelled 27, 30, 31 - I'd guess you only need 27 (and maybe 30). Cafe Parts are very expensive to the UK (as they've already gone from Europe to the US!) so I certainly wouldn't buy from there.

There is also the French site Eevad, which I've never used and has a large-ish minimum order, but good for looking in detail at parts. I think this is the part you need: http://www.eevad.com/eevad/product_info.php/marque/ASTORIA/modele/LISA/products_id/119464. Here are the bits that go with it, for reference: http://www.eevad.com/eevad/product_info.php/products_id/119965

I can PM you the LF Spares parts catalogue too if that helps (I believe LF are the European distributor for all CMA Astoria machines and parts).

There are plenty others out there, but I reckon espressotechno is your man.

Colin


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## Mouse (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks again Colin, loads of good info!! Yep, If you could forward on the LF spares catalogue that would be great. The part listed on the French site is exactly what I need.

Mines a Perla Junior - She's mechanically sound (Until last night lol) but cosmetically she was in a bit of a state

So she's had a recent bit of TLC and I've completely fallen in love with her over the last few weeks.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?15541-My-little-set-up-)

Good luck with getting water into yours over Easter - I'll look forward to seeing yours up and running


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm unable to source the black plastic cap - it doesn't appear to exist on my suppliers' lists.

This cap tends to become brittle with age, so it breaks up the first time the safety valve is removed....

This cap is not a "must have" item - all the CMA machines I have come across have naked safety valves.

PS I can supply CMA safety valves & anti-vac valves: Just PM me for more info.


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## Mouse (Feb 28, 2014)

Thanks for the update - I might have a go at making one then.

the base is the bit that has become brittle/cracked and this looks like it twists into place onto the actual dome/cap - It can be a little project when i get 5 mins (It's good to know that it's not required though).

The safety valves seem to be working OK, but I'll no doubt need your services at some point


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

Mouse said:


> Thanks again Colin, loads of good info!! Yep, If you could forward on the LF spares catalogue that would be great. The part listed on the French site is exactly what I need.


Ooh, sorry I missed this post until now Mr Mouse - if you pm me your email address I'll send it over.

I've just ordered from he French site too - if I'd looked here we could have shared postage :-/ I'll let you know if the process is smooth, anyway.

The Perla is lovely - best looking machine CMA make I think, love the colour!


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## Mouse (Feb 28, 2014)

No worries Colin, I'll PM my email now.

Cheers, Matt


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## Cana (Mar 7, 2015)

Using my necromancer skills I resurrect this thread from long ago. 😈 It appears you guys are the only ones who will know this and have relevant info that would help in knowing my San Marino which is essentially an Astoria apparently.

What sort of skills and knowledge have you gained from owning an astoria for so long now? I'll be recieving and setting up my San Marino I think on the 25th or so. I'd like to have everything ready and to know what size the machine is etc.

Also need to know what size waste pipe i'll need and over all approx measurements of the machine. Absolutely nowhere online has the info I need, so here am I resurrected long dead posts for new info.

How old is my machine also?


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

Holy thread resurrection batman! It's been a while... looks like I haven't posted here since 2016 and then this notification pops into my inbox...

Not sure how much I can help to be honest. Your machine is definitely from the same stable as CMA/Astoria, not sure of the age. I think I still have the part catalogues/diagrams around somewhere so I'll try and dig them out. Being lever it should be simple electronically (how is it filled?) but I know nothing about the lever group I'm afraid. The machines are massively built so age probably won't be an issue provided you can get seals (and springs/mechanicals?) and it isn't corroded on internal surfaces. Just make sure the safety valves are replaced with GOOD ones that you trust - a 6L boiler exploding will blow your windows out and kill you (but at least two things must fail for that to happen, so don't let it put you off, just be safe and check it regularly).

Skills gained... er... be faster with steaming milk. Don't (try and) move it without draining it. Learn how to earn more to pay the electricity and water bills (LOTS of flushing to get the head temp down on machines meant for high-throughput cafes). Get used to drinking lots of very good coffee, and mates coming round 'just to say hello - oh, is the coffee machine on? Go on then...'.

Mine's been bombproof really. I did a second descale a couple of years after renovating it, changed grouphead gasket, that's about it; it just works. A(nother) house move the last couple of years means it's currently not in use, so I've been on filter/aeropress/chemex/syphon instead. I really ought to set it up again.

Size - bigger than you expect! About half a washing machine, and 35kg or so. I put some reinforcements under the worktop mine was on... Bit late this evening to go measuring exactly, I'll try and do that tomorrow. Presume you've seen the restoration thread I did to get an idea of what you might be in for internally?

Colin


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

coffeechops said:


> Holy thread resurrection batman!


 ha ha that's my line lol :classic_tongue:


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

Dimensions look like 56cm x 54cm x 50cm approx, DxHxW. Drain hose looks like a 16mm (5/8") ID. Looks like I got them from www.espressounderground.co.uk:

Input braided hose: BRAIDED HOSE 1.5M 3/8 X 3/8 ELBOW - PN: UVHO0013
Waste hose: WASTE HOSE WITH WIRE 1M 16MM I/D - PN: UVHO3630

Lots of CMA/Astoria parts there too: https://www.espressounderground.co.uk/CMA-Coffee-machine-Spare-Parts-s/1974.htm

During the refurb I did Pete at espressounderground was very helpful, as was Ian at espressotechno (who was on this forum, not sure if he still is).

Have found the LF parts list which does show the lever variant (exploded diagrams of lever mechanism, boiler, piping etc) if you need it - it's 14MB pdf so drop me a PM and I'll mail it across.


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## Cana (Mar 7, 2015)

omg thanks sooo much!  <33

Size is perfect. I'll make sure to have that size/ similar drain hose. I have a spare gas flexible hose I was planning to use for the waste. I think that might be a similar size.

I'll order that input hose now.

I'll be sending you a message for that pdf ❤

I did manage to find a group seal set by Cafelat for the group, and spring piston which also came with a new showerscreen aswell. All in silicone. So hoping that fits right away. Machine is being picked up on 20th from spain, and dropped off here sometime between 22nd- 28th I think as a realistic "Express" pallet shipping timescale. Would hate for the machine to turn up and me having to wait to turn it on for a silly part being missing on my end.

Thanks so much for the help! ❤ Absolutely 0 information out there for san marino owners haha. Even the sanmarino facebook page has nothing useful, and the website is absolutely empty of anything helpful.


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