# New member



## Billywiz1307 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hi Guys

I've only been lurking for a day or two and stumbled across portishead in a similar position to me.

To gasps of horror from you guys, I have used a Jura Z5 for a few years now and I have always considered it to be really good. Anyway, my Jura is having problems and it has prompted me to look around. Tomorrow, I am having my Jura "fixed" for £210 plus VAT and it may be too late but I could cancel that and put the cash to perhaps a Fracino Cherub and a decent grinder.

I need two boilers because cappuccino is important and I do like good espresso etc but are you sure I will see a difference from my up market B2C if I move to something like the Cherub?

That's my position so any advice would be gratefully received.

Dave


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Short answer yes! Your coffee would be greatly improved , an espresso machine and a grinder with fresh coffee would be vastly better in my opinion .

Now long answer.

Cherub is a HX (heat exchanger machine ,not a dual boiler ). But will more than adequately deal with making your milk based drinks.

You will need to learn new skills. (Dosing, tamping , steaming milk ) , as it isn't just the push of a button. This thought is massively rewarding especially when you get it right, and deliver a coffee better than any of the high street chains .

You'll need more space , machine and grinder, and you'll need a budget to work around for both . You won't find many on here who recommend you stay with. B2CUP, but you are on a coffee forum....

Have a think , ask some more , think about what you want to get from you coffee experience .


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi Billywiz and welcome to the forum. There is no way a B2C can compete with a stand alone espresso machine and paired grinder. Best advice I can give - if you want to get the best out of the bean (freshly roasted of course) go for a minimum HX or better still dual boiler machine plus a decent grinder. Forum is a great place to pick up such kit second hand.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Firstly the cherub has one boiler, it is a heat exchanger so he boiler is at constant steam temp and a pipe runs through the boiler taking cold water up to brew temp when the pump is engaged. You will most certainly see a difference in e quality of the coffee produced, I had a carimali b2c that I renovated and although the shots from hat, a £4000 machine were drinkable, I could acheive a much better shot from a rancilio silvia, mazzer super jolly combo, and the step up to the cherub is even more significant, so bin the b2c as they are pricey to fix and inferior in the coffee quality stakes


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi Billywiz! welcome to the forum! Give me a shout if you want a great deal on a Cherub or a Piccino......

Andy


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## Bursar (Aug 4, 2013)

I was looking at Jura B2C machines to start with, and they're quite pricey. I then started looking at the Gaggia Classic, but after reading up on them, it sounds like they struggle a bit if you want to make a few drinks in a row, particularly if you also need to steam milk as well.

In the end I've plumped for a Cherub (which should be arriving tomorrow) for the simple reason that like you, I enjoy milk based coffee drinks


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## TonyW (Jul 17, 2012)

Welcome to the forum.

A dual boiler machine would be great, depending on your budget, but a HX machine would be fine if you wanted a cheaper option.

If you do a lot of milk based drinks then you are right in thinking its better to avoid a *non-HX* single boiler machine, because you'd need to switch the boiler between brew or steam temperatures. That can be a pain, particularly if you need to do a large batch of drinks. Best avoided.

As Coffeechap explained, the HX machines have a single boiler that delivers steam and brew water without needing to change any boiler settings. You could even brew and steam at the same time, if the boiler is powerful enough.

If money's no object then a dual-boiler machine would take you to the next level, allowing more precise control of the brew temperature for example.

Whatever you decide to go for, don't skimp on your grinder.


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