# Sage Barista Pro - Gushing/Spurting after 20 seconds of shot



## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

Hi All,

I've been an owner of a Sage BP for almost 5 months now. I've been quite happy with the results thus far but i always think there is room for improvement.

Recently i've been looking at the flow from the stock pf and non-pressurized basket when pulling a shot. I've noticed around the 20 second mark that the stream goes from being consistent and stable to gushing/spurting. This has been the same for 18, 18.5, 19, 19.5 and 20g doses. My method is below:



Run 3 blind shots through pf (1 double, 1 single, 1 double)


Weigh out dose before and after grinding into pf.


Vertical tap 2/3 times on silicone mat.


WDT followed by 1/2 light taps to ensure fluffy grinds at top are level with top of pf.


Tamp with palm tamper


I've tried switching a lot of variables between dose, grind, tamp pressure etc but still seem to be getting a gush around 20seconds (including pre infusion) as opposed to the desired consistent steam flowing from the pf.

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Or any advice as to how to rectify?

Any feedback or comments appreciated. Thank you.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

It could be the beans as oposed to the machine itself. How fresh are the beans you are using? How are you storing them?


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

dutchy101 said:


> It could be the beans as oposed to the machine itself. How fresh are the beans you are using? How are you storing them?


 Django beans roasted August 20th and stored in a fellow atmos. Opening a new bag of light roast tomorrow from Fidela that's 1 week from roast date so will report back then.

Thanks for the response.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Has it just started with these beans or is it happening with other beans too? Are you resting the beans for a week or so after the roast date to degass before using them?


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

dutchy101 said:


> Has it just started with these beans or is it happening with other beans too? Are you resting the beans for a week or so after the roast date to degass before using them?


 It's been happening somewhat but more so with these beans. We are 11 days from roast date and it's still occurring.

I've been opening them and putting them in the fellow atmos and using them after at least 5 days.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I'd suggest trying taking the grind finer and finer to see if that helps.

After a year or so of going with darker roasts I'm now experimenting a little with lighter roasts and noticed I've needed to tighten the grind as the beans age.

Might be worth invesring in a bottomless portafilter too which might give an indication of whether the puck preparation is an issue.


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

That's the weird thing. It's as fine as it will go without it dripping out bit by bit. I've worked my way up from that grind setting and it's the same result.

First thing i'm going to do is try the different bean. If still no joy, i'll be investing in a bottomless portafilter with a new basket. I had intended to do this anyway. Any suggestions?


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

If you prefer lighter roasts you may want to look at getting a separate grinder in the future. It will improve your experience night and day.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Yeah I think the Sage grinders struggle a little with lighter roasts.

This was the portafilter I bought. Mine didn't come with a basket but the stock basket works perfectly with it. It fits the grouphead but feels a little less tight than the stock portafilter. Works perfectly well though.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08DFP7WF2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_KNRHTDGC50SHHFP7VDXV?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

Thank you @lake_m and @dutchy101

I guess i'll have to try a medium/darker roast first and see what is what. Have you found yourselves increasing the shot temp by much for lighter roasts? The most i've moved is by 1 step either way depending on the roasts.

Anyway, I ordered an IMS competition basket last night to use with the bottomless portafilter as i think my puck prep could possibly be worked on. I'll update on this thread how everything goes.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I can't adjust the temp on my Bambino so it is not a luxury I have, but I moved away from the Sage Smart Grinder Pro and bought a Solo in April and it has been a big improvement. Having said that the SGP worked fine and was doing a good job on the beans I was using at the time which were darker roasts.

I have been having similar gushers with the Solo on lighter roasts as the beans age, but have remedied with a tighter grind


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

So i've dialled in as best as i can for the Fiedla light roast and the same gushing occurs even when going as fine as possible without it being too over extracted. I definitely think it's the sage grinder that struggles with light roasts as a few others have alluded to.

Can anyone recommend some nice medium/dark roasts so that i can test?

Thank you.


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Black cat twilight and chocolate point blend. James Gournet Simply Brazil are all very nice. Square mile Red Brick also.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I always found that the Coffee Compass espresso blends worked well with my SGP. Cherry Cherry, Brighton Lanes and Sweet Bourbon were all great - they used to do a deal on 3 x 500g mix packets.

Black Cat's Chocolate Point also very good


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

I've just ordered 500g of Sweet Bourbon from Coffee Compass. Not a big fan of dark roasts so will try keep it medium for the time being until I get brave enough to join the dark side again 🙂

Any recipe recommendations for the Sweet Bourbon blend? Jumping the gun a little I know, but just getting a little frustrated with dialling in at the moment. Bottomless should tell a tale.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Try a 19g dose. On the SGP grinder I'd start at setting 12 and move up or down 1 setting depending on how the shot ran. Grind setting numbers probably different on the BP.

At the time I wasn't weighing output just pressing the double shot button and letting the Bambino do it's thing


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## NapoleonSi (Aug 15, 2021)

Hi, how are your shots tasting? I had the exact same problem with my SBP after only three months! By around month 5 the shots were so under extracted and tasted very sour. After two weeks of trying to convince Sage of my problems (sending a video, speaking to three different people) they sent out an engineer to fix the machine. It turned out that the grinder had already developed a fault. They didn't have any in stock (there still aren't) so they just gave me a brand new machine.

I am slightly concerned that the grinder could break so fast. The one thing we have in common is that we weigh in, meaning I assume after every grind you run it empty for a brief moment? I am wondering if this can cause the problem to occur, I hope not as I do like doing that!


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

dutchy101 said:


> Try a 19g dose. On the SGP grinder I'd start at setting 12 and move up or down 1 setting depending on how the shot ran. Grind setting numbers probably different on the BP.
> 
> At the time I wasn't weighing output just pressing the double shot button and letting the Bambino do it's thing


 So after a month or more of tinkering i think it's definitely down to roast. Getting some amazing tasting espresso from Medium to Medium/Dark roast. I'm going to go back to some lighter roasts shortly to see how it goes.



NapoleonSi said:


> Hi, how are your shots tasting? I had the exact same problem with my SBP after only three months! By around month 5 the shots were so under extracted and tasted very sour. After two weeks of trying to convince Sage of my problems (sending a video, speaking to three different people) they sent out an engineer to fix the machine. It turned out that the grinder had already developed a fault. They didn't have any in stock (there still aren't) so they just gave me a brand new machine.
> 
> I am slightly concerned that the grinder could break so fast. The one thing we have in common is that we weigh in, meaning I assume after every grind you run it empty for a brief moment? I am wondering if this can cause the problem to occur, I hope not as I do like doing that!


 @NapoleonSiThis is a bit concerning. Did you notice the same behaviour on darker roasts vs lighter roasts? As stated above i've been having better results with darker roasts but intend to go back to some lighter roasts as an experiment.

Did you notice any difference with the new machine?

And yes, i let the grinder run on empty for a couple of seconds. I can't imagine this would cause an issue but the more i read up it's hard to know.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I think there is an issue with extracting lighter roasts on the Bambino in that the temperature isn't quite hot enough to get the best out of lighter roasts. I saw a Youtube video on this recently:


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

@dutchy101 That video makes sense. I have the Barista Pro so when using lighter roasts i usually have the shot temperature max, however i believe they are essentially similar machines only the pro has the display and built in grinder?


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Sorry, I misremembered that you had a Bambino for some reason. Unfortunately you can't change the brew temperature on the Bambino. I hadn't realised you could do this on the Barista Pro


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## MarkoPolo (Jan 28, 2021)

No worries at all. Similar machines anyway


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