# The Best Espresso Machine under £500 - James Hoffman



## Jasetaylor (Jul 31, 2020)

There it is, the long awaited review for the entry level machines.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Dreadful.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Dreadful.


 Why


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## Gilly (Jul 29, 2019)

Mmmhh! But is the Silvia still a mild steel rot box below the reservoir??


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Cool video but it boiled down to buy the Silvia or the Classic and spend money on a PID, OPV mod etc......it isn't a £500 machine any more.

**In fairness to JH I was watching this trying to comfort a screaming baby and feed a toddler so I could've totally missed the point.**


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@BlackCatCoffee - I think he was generally pretty fair to be honest.

His preference was for the two machines which he thought might hold their value, be repairable and had more headroom for improving or tweaking them via PIDs or pressure changes to shift into the prosumer range. He still liked them as stock though.

When covering the Bambino, he did say it would make very nice drinks but is squarely targeted at the non-hobbyist home barista market where people want to have tasty coffee with great milk and less faff. He also suggested the scope for modding or repairing them is smaller.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Gilly - Yep, still painted mild steel and a very strange routing for the waste pipe which leads to rusting issues.

Always been intrigued why the super premium ECM machines (I do day dream about getting a Slim occasionally) which have powder coated steel frames, but which don't suffer the same fate. Just assuming with the E61 groups and routing it all goes out front more or the frame metal/coatings are more resilient.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Why


 Fair question.

I think he missed some key points and introduced others that were meaningless.

And inconsistent.

I remember his Aldi review. He hammered that machine as hateful because of not being able to control pressure and here we have him happy with the clearly equally guilty Gaggia.

No mention of heat up or set up times.

A mention about the solenoid valve on the Gaggia but not any others.

He said the Gaggia and Silvia were his favs but clearly, were seriously lacking with steaming power and temp stability.

The best machines were the Bambino and the Lelit. If the Lelit had a 58mm basket (wtf Lelit?) Then I suspect it would be the best if he could get over his pro biases.

He should have (imho) hammered the Silvia and the Gaggia for the clear failings they have and left it at that instead of caveating his recommendation with comments about mods.

One good thing is that perhaps Rancilio and Gaggia may finally update the machines temp controls after 30+ years of stasis.

And odd video imho.


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## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Fair question.
> I think he missed some key points and introduced others that were meaningless.
> And inconsistent.
> I remember his Aldi review. He hammered that machine as hateful because of not being able to control pressure and here we have him happy with the clearly equally guilty Gaggia.
> ...


Are you sure your own biases aren't clouding your view of this video?

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

ChilledMatt said:


> Are you sure your own biases aren't clouding your view of this video?
> 
> Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


 I've never owned a Lelit or Bambino so, no.


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## Rapid (Jun 12, 2020)

Northern_Monkey said:


> When covering the Bambino, great milk and less faff.


 Wait.....are you talking about the espresso machine or giving @BlackCatCoffee parenting tips? 😂


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## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Fair question.
> I think he missed some key points and introduced others that were meaningless.
> And inconsistent.
> I remember his Aldi review. He hammered that machine as hateful because of not being able to control pressure and here we have him happy with the clearly equally guilty Gaggia. -- "He hated the Aldi machine for numerous reasons"
> ...


Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

^my comments in speech marks. Not got the hang of quoting lol.

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Fair question.
> 
> I think he missed some key points and introduced others that were meaningless.
> 
> ...


 It will take gaggia at least another 30 I think


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Blue_Cafe - He could have made it a 60 minute+ video if it covered all variables.

Would have been good to get a table showing these but that is effectively multiple in depth long term reviews so not YouTube friendly really:

1. Start up time/timer switch

2. If the EU 30 min shutdown

3. Cleaning/maintenance

4. OPV or brew spring type and default pressure

5. Brew temps

6. Recovery time between coffees and milk steaming


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Strange video, he did qualify it with admitting his bias and saying his choices would best 'for him'. Put it like this, I've never seen anyone on this forum recommend getting a new Silvia or Classic Pro, let alone spend the extra £100+ on those new machines to mod them. While it's not for me, modding a £100 second hand Classic I get.

I suppose as these are options people are looking at he's giving his two cents. Strange he's not familiar with Lelit. Is the Mara X not big outside of this forum? I thought they were big players with that, the Bianca and the others regularly brought up here.


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## steffanjtaylor (Sep 9, 2020)

The Lelit Anna model with a PID (Lelit PL41TEM) is under the £500 criteria, I don't know why that wasn't tested instead of the entry model Anna (Lelit PL41EM).


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

he had trouble getting stock apparently


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## Jasetaylor (Jul 31, 2020)

steffanjtaylor said:


> The Lelit Anna model with a PID (Lelit PL41TEM) is under the £500 criteria, I don't know why that wasn't tested instead of the entry model Anna (Lelit PL41EM).


 because he (JH) was unable to source one - out of stock.


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## steffanjtaylor (Sep 9, 2020)

espressoSquirrel said:


> he had trouble getting stock apparently





Jasetaylor said:


> because he (JH) was unable to source one - out of stock.


 I see, that is a shame; the conclusion of the video may have changed were it not out of stock.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Rapid said:


> Wait.....are you talking about the espresso machine or giving @BlackCatCoffee parenting tips? 😂


 Duly noted thank you both 👍👍


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## Gilly (Jul 29, 2019)

steffanjtaylor said:


> I see, that is a shame; the conclusion of the video may have changed were it not out of stock.


 Blimey if JH can't get one then what hope for the great unwashed?

Surely availability is paramount here; no use having a 'Nirvana' machine if you can't buy it.

nb. JH looks like he needs a good dinner.


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## espressoSquirrel (Jul 24, 2020)

he has a policy that he wont review anything that he receives in a way that a consumer cant, so he wasn't able to try and get anything through a backchannel or anything.
I believe some manufacturers have sent him items in the hope of getting publicity to be then told that disqualifies them...


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## steffanjtaylor (Sep 9, 2020)

Gilly said:


> Blimey if JH can't get one then what hope for the great unwashed?
> 
> Surely availability is paramount here; no use having a 'Nirvana' machine if you can't buy it.
> 
> nb. JH looks like he needs a good dinner.


 It's not so much that it's a nirvana machine; just that a PID (and a better wand) in the PL41TEM model may have tipped the balance in the Anna's favour vs the competition.

Availability is important, however the PL41TEM has been in stock in a few places (including at least one you could order from right now) for the last few months; I considered this model before buying a MaraX.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Hmm. Not a great video, but only because I was expecting a different video. A more comprehensive one with detail such as @Northern_Monkey raises would have been interesting to me (us) given the weight of knowledge we already have about these machines and the class of machines above and below it.

What the video does fairly well is all that was promised...a low-fi, relatively plain speaking, oppinionated, quick take on what to spend your £500 on.

I believe he's said he'll do more in-depth videos per machine on the more expensive machines and grinders, perhaps he plans that for these too.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

Is it irritating just me that he didn't test them all as stock? As someone who is just getting in to this whole espresso lark it isn't helpful when a comparison test like that isn't objective. Would have been good to do an 'as bought' test across all of them and then looked at the ability (or not) to be able to tinker - how much difference do the better baskets make etc.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Fair question.
> 
> I think he missed some key points and introduced others that were meaningless.
> 
> ...


 He hammered the Aldi because it didn't have an OPV so was producing like 16 bar of pressure. The gaggia has an OPV which means it can do 9 bar.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

New Gaggia has not adjustable plastic saeco/philips joke OPV set on 12.5 bar mostly.

BR


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

SuffolkDoug said:


> Is it irritating just me that he didn't test them all as stock? As someone who is just getting in to this whole espresso lark it isn't helpful when a comparison test like that isn't objective. Would have been good to do an 'as bought' test across all of them and then looked at the ability (or not) to be able to tinker - how much difference do the better baskets make etc.


 This is a fair point. However I think a new basket is something most people would buy relatively soon and it evens out the playing field somewhat.

If the only reason a machine lost eon taste was because the basket was crap, I would have said it was worth knowing that it was a better machine if you spend an extra £25 on an upgrade.

I think he pitched it right. He didn't add a £100 but of really techy, hard-to-install componentry to anything, just a £25 basket that (in most cases) you can just click in and use.

Regarding all the other comments...

Interesting seeing the negative comments here. I don't think the video was perfect, but it was already over 20 mins without going into more detail and personally I think his assessment was correct - I'd go for the same 2 machines.

The lelit having a 57mm group is really silly. Massively limits the cheap upgrades you can do. The delonghi was garbage, totally out the competition. I just don't trust those buttons on the sage to work for more than a few years and the lack of upgrade options is a downside for me. That leaves the classic and the silvia, which with a couple of upgrades become really competent machines (but still not flawless).

My one gripe with gaggia is that they set the pressure so high as stock. I really wish they'd stop doing that. If someone wants to be able to use pods or something (I think that's why the pressure is high?) they probably only want to spend £100 on a delonghi, not £399 on a classic.

Just my thoughts. Agree it wasn't perfect, but I think it was a reasonable comparison overall 😊


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

L&R said:


> New Gaggia has not adjustable plastic saeco/philips joke OPV set on 12.5 bar mostly.
> 
> BR


 Oh good grief. They make the steam wand normal and then do that. Why can't they just leave things that work alone?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Michael87 said:


> He hammered the Aldi because it didn't have an OPV so was producing like 16 bar of pressure. The gaggia has an OPV which means it can do 9 bar.


 There were plenty reasons he hammered the Aldi as well as the 16 bar


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

jaffro said:


> That leaves the classic and the silvia, which with a couple of upgrades become really competent machines


 That's the problem. What Ordinary Joe wants (and has the confidence), to spend £100 modding their brand new machine? Who does research and then decides to buy a new machine and immediately invalid the warranty, risking breaking it all together? Some enthusiasts on this forum maybe but I doubt even then. People just buy old second hand machines and then do that.

He said besides the basket (which is a minor upgrade), these machines would be tested as stock. Then he adds an expensive and complicated caveat. Which is fine as it was 'for him', but doesn't really inform the viewer about what they should do apart from 'don't buy these two machines if you don't want to mod them'. If I was new to coffee I'd be looking at the Lelit Anna and Bambino based off that video.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Michael87 said:


> He hammered the Aldi because it didn't have an OPV so was producing like 16 bar of pressure. The gaggia has an OPV which means it can do 9 bar.


 No.

The latest versions of the classic, and like the V2 have just a fixed safety valve which is locked down and only opens above pump stall pressure.

To use it as a pump pressure regulator, you hack it with springs.

The Silvia however does have a proper pressure regulator valve which is user adjustable.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

jaffro said:


> This is a fair point. However I think a new. That leaves the classic and the silvia, which with a couple of upgrades become really competent machines (but still not flawless).


 Regarding the GCP.

It can't steam. Its not just "not as good", it's terrible. Its arguably not fit for purpose it's that bad.

For espresso, it's unregulated pressure straight from the pump. Something JH panned the Aldi machine for.

Its also thermally erratic. So much so, you must temp surf to use it.

Which makes it a huge PITA to use it more than once.

So, it's rubbish at espresso and rubbish at steaming. What's is it actually good at? Looks nice I suppose.

If JH had never seen this machine before, he would have murdered it.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Now I'm not claiming that the Classic is the best machine going, there is obviously far superior equipment out there but for balance and for anyone who reads this thread now or in the future it can definitely steam. The micro foam I get out of it is has a more than decent consistency and is perfectly capable of producing latte art. Again I'm not comparing it to a prosumer device and it's a pain to do more than 2 coffees but the idea it can't steam is demonstrably untrue.

I may be missing the point re the pressure as I'm not very technical but I know you can adjust it, I have mine set to 6 bars but as I say I'm not sure if that's the point being made here... It may well have gone over my head...

Agree it's thermally erratic though. Fitting the PID made a massive difference and I'd always recommend getting one.

I've been running my Classic for over 10 years now, and while I'd love an upgrade it's served me well and been a great machine to learn on.

Edit: Just seen the pressure not being adjustable relates to new models (obviously!) so yeah, I definitely did miss the point on that! 😆


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

CocoLoco said:


> That's the problem. What Ordinary Joe wants (and has the confidence), to spend £100 modding their brand new machine? Who does research and then decides to buy a new machine and immediately invalid the warranty, risking breaking it all together? Some enthusiasts on this forum maybe but I doubt even then. People just buy old second hand machines and then do that.
> 
> He said besides the basket (which is a minor upgrade), these machines would be tested as stock. Then he adds an expensive and complicated caveat. Which is fine as it was 'for him', but doesn't really inform the viewer about what they should do apart from 'don't buy these two machines if you don't want to mod them'. If I was new to coffee I'd be looking at the Lelit Anna and Bambino based off that video.


 That's fair.

The thing is they all have issues. They're sub £500 in an expensive hobby, so they're pretty cheap. You can't have a perfect machine for that money.

The way I see it they all have different flaws. Whether that's a 57mm basket, temp fluctuation or crappy pressure. The silvia and the classic have flaws that you can address and fix if you choose to and for me, that's what I would do. Although what I'd rather do is buy an old classic off ebay for £100 (which is what I did at first) and mod it. But that's just me.

The others all have issues that you can't fix. You can't put a 58mm group head on the lelit. You can't upgrade the bambino to be made of pretty chrome rather than plastic and put hard switches on rather than flimsy feeling buttons. Etc etc. If these aren't issues for someone watching then obviously they're the best choice.

If you watched the video and decided that the sage or lelit are the ones you'd be interested in then that's spot on. None are perfect for everyone, but two of them likely work for you. I think that's quite a fair take away from the video?



Blue_Cafe said:


> Regarding the GCP.
> 
> It can't steam. Its not just "not as good", it's terrible. Its arguably not fit for purpose it's that bad.
> 
> ...


 That's also fair. I personally think the old classic is the best machine to get (I know you disagree but let's not get into that, each to his/her own). Obviously buying an old model isn't an option though when you're talking about new machines, so that's moot.

I'm not defending the GCP. I think it's genuinely moronic that they didn't just make it 9 bars. All I'm saying is that if you take the time to mod it, it CAN be a capable machine. Yes, the temperature is erratic and temp surfing is a pain but that's fixable with a PID, which is exactly what I think JH is getting at at the end of the video by saying it's the best for him because he would personally take the time to mod it. Completely acknowledge that not everyone would. I didn't feel he was saying at the end that his answer was the right one for everyone, just for him.

I think I would have made the same recommendation given the machines that were out on the table. The lelit is the one that would have been competition for the silvia and classic, but I can't get over the 57mm group head, which isn't something you can fix. If someone else is okay with that then great, get the lelit!

Re the aldi machine... Well it was crap to be fair wasn't it? If I could have the Aldi machine or a GCP/silvia for free I'd take the GCP or silvia and mod it, no question about it.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

jaffro said:


> This is a fair point. However I think a new basket is something most people would buy relatively soon and it evens out the playing field somewhat.
> 
> If the only reason a machine lost eon taste was because the basket was crap, I would have said it was worth knowing that it was a better machine if you spend an extra £25 on an upgrade.
> 
> ...


 That's fair and I agree going as far as to PID any of them would have been too far - although the pedant in me would say I'd like them all run stock and then with the new baskets - see which ones improved the most.

But that's a rabbit hole we don't need to go down.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

SuffolkDoug said:


> That's fair and I agree going as far as to PID any of them would have been too far - although the pedant in me would say I'd like them all run stock and then with the new baskets - see which ones improved the most.
> 
> But that's a rabbit hole we don't need to go down.


 Haha yeah I agree it would be an interesting rabbit hole... But yeah definitely a longer video!


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## phario (May 7, 2017)

jaffro said:


> I think it's genuinely moronic that they didn't just make it 9 bars.


 I would assume that they are perfectly aware that some people feel strongly about the 9 bar issue, and yet they decided against it for rational reasons (which we may not agree with, like to appeal to a wider target audience).


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## RobbieTheTruth (Jun 4, 2019)

jaffro said:


> The lelit having a 57mm group is really silly. Massively limits the cheap upgrades you can do. The delonghi was garbage, totally out the competition. I just don't trust those buttons on the sage to work for more than a few years and the lack of upgrade options is a downside for me. That leaves the classic and the silvia, which with a couple of upgrades become really competent machines (but still not flawless).


 I've made a post on this before.

Lelit could really corner the market for the entry level machine.

For any newcomer - the recommendation is generally 2nd hand Gaggia, modded down to 9 bar, with PID installed etc.....

Letit have the following in their entry level range:



Anna, *with* pressure gauge* without* PID (57mm)


Anna *with* and *with* PID (57mm)


Glenda* with* pressure gauge *without* PID (58mm)


Glenda *with* PID and *without* pressure gauge (58mm)


Literally, the only thing they don't do out of all those combos is a Glenda *with* PID and *with* pressure gage - which would be a perfect starter machine.

Surely, if they would amalgamate all of their efforts into one machine - and focus build/parts/marketing into it, it would cut down their operational costs and force that machine to the top of everyone's first recommendation.

They also build a Lelit Grace.

Fantastic machine for £500 - which includes PID, pressure gauge, but it has a 57mm portafiler!

It's as if they don't want to create the holy grail starter machine!

It's not until you get to the Victoria (£700) that all boxes are ticked.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

RobbieTheTruth said:


> I've made a post on this before.
> 
> Lelit could really corner the market for the entry level machine.
> 
> ...


 Completely agree.

Perhaps they want people to spend the extra on the Victoria... Suppose that's one strategy!

Edit: looks like the Glenda comes from the factory at 15 bar, similar to the classic...


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## RobbieTheTruth (Jun 4, 2019)

jaffro said:


> Completely agree.
> 
> Perhaps they want people to spend the extra on the Victoria... Suppose that's one strategy!
> 
> Edit: looks like the Glenda comes from the factory at 15 bar, similar to the classic...


 I thought that - but at least 5 similar but slightly unsuitable machines before you get to it!?

They all come at 15 bar, don't know why the even add the gauge! They are adjustable though I think


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

RobbieTheTruth said:


> I thought that - but at least 5 similar but slightly unsuitable machines before you get to it!?
> 
> They all come at 15 bar, don't know why the even add the gauge! They are adjustable though I think


 Yeah agreed. Bit weird for me, but then I'm not the expert!

Weirdly I just checked the spec sheet for the MaraX (which I own) and it says it's 15 bar too... Definitely isn't. So maybe the others aren't either 🤔


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## RobbieTheTruth (Jun 4, 2019)

jaffro said:


> Yeah agreed. Bit weird for me, but then I'm not the expert!
> 
> Weirdly I just checked the spec sheet for the MaraX (which I own) and it says it's 15 bar too... Definitely isn't. So maybe the others aren't either 🤔


 Yeah, I'm sure users say they are set to 10-11 bar out of the box....


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