# Problems dialling in (Expobar with Vario)



## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

So my new Expobar Office Leva HX arrived yesterday. This is paired with a Mahlkonig Vario grinder purchased new in December.

I had a very frustrating evening trying to get the grinder dialled in with no success. I was using Union Rogue Espresso roasted about 10 days ago.

I've got the Vario grind setting down to 1E and I'm still getting aroung 60g of espresso from 18g in about 18-20 seconds. Coarser grinds are faster still although not by a lot. I've also tried different doses 17-19g. This is the same whether using the stock double basket that came with the machine or an LM 17g basket -using a MadeByKnock tamper.

The flow normally starts at about 8 seconds, very dark then within a few seconds starts to bubble and gush a much lighter (but not blond) foam. The couple that I've tasted have been very bitter/dry tasting.

So this is either (probably) some really stupid noobie mistake that I'm making or possibly a problem with the Vario. I have read of problems on older models that have been used to grind coarser not then resetting properly for an espresso grind. I've been using the Vario for Aeropress on about a level 5 for the last few weeks after my previous espresso machine died.

Any help or tips would be much appreciated.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Sounds like a grind issue - a Vario at 1E should be choking

Pinch the grind, how fine is it? (i.e. grainy etc.)

Could be the burrs are wearing out (due to the age - would be surprised though!)

Edit - make sure the portafilter is well locked in too...


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

Andy, re: grind issue - yeah, I was wondering whether the vario had jumped out of alignment or something. Machine definitely not choking at 1E .

As I said, the Vario is fairly new - has probably had no more than 3-4 kilos of beans through it since new.

I'll try pinching the grind at different levels for comparison.

Curious how having the portafilter locked in properly would make a difference. Both PF lugs are properly located and although the lock position is more like seven o'clock rather than six I assume that this is just because it's a new machine

Thanks


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

I have the DB leva and its a 2010 model and th PF locjs in about 7 o'clock so no worries there,just out of interest what was the volume output with the 60 g shot


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

bubbajvegas said:


> just out of interest what was the volume output with the 60 g shot


Wasn't especially focussed on that but I think between 3-4oz (two 2oz espresso cups well over half full)

@bubbajvegas Just out of curiousity, how do you find the bew temp on your leva? What kind of pre-shot flushing routine do you follow?


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## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

Brew temp fine but mines PID'd,I just pull a couple of oz to pre warm my demitasse whilst grinding


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

SweeneyTodd said:


> Andy, re: grind issue - yeah, I was wondering whether the vario had jumped out of alignment or something. Machine definitely not choking at 1E


When I got my Vario, I wanted to have a look at the burrs so I took the top one out. Didn't lock it back in place properly so I couldn't get the grind fine. Realising it was me, not the Vario, I reinserted the top burr making sure it was it was fully secure. Grind was fine after that. As yours has run several kilos, I guess it's possible the burr may have become unseated. I've never gone lower than 2 on the macro scale with the micro scale set at finest. My Silvia was happy at 2 with the micro setting at mid point. I've heard Londinium users with Varios set it at 2 - and the Londinium likes a find grind I believe. Haven't checked this out personally yet as mine doesn't arrive until Tuesday.


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

@TheSystemicKid - thanks for that.

Looks like the wonderful world of internet forums concurs that I may have aminor grinder issue (and that I'm not going mad)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

SweeneyTodd said:


> @TheSystemicKid - thanks for that.
> 
> Looks like the wonderful world of internet forums concurs that I may have aminor grinder issue (and that I'm not going mad)


Hope you get it sorted soon - let us know how you get on.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

The fact you have an 8 second wait for the coffee to appear sounds to me like its fine enough. It suggests you have a distribution, tamp problem and its channelling you are seeing. Do you have a bottomless portafilter?

I'd back off the fineness slightly, use a needle to move the coffee around a bit in the basket (are you getting clumping?), tamp and go.

HTH.


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

repeat said:


> The fact you have an 8 second wait for the coffee to appear sounds to me like its fine enough. It suggests you have a distribution, tamp problem and its channelling you are seeing. Do you have a bottomless portafilter?


No I don't have a bottomless portfilter.

Distribution was one possiblity I'd thought of, especially as the poor starts off OK then starts gushing and bubbling.

Generally the vario doesn't seem to clump so I have tried WDT (or my approximation of it) to no avail but will keep trying.

May yet have to resort to video so I can really hold by noobness up for all to see


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

repeat said:


> The fact you have an 8 second wait for the coffee to appear sounds to me like its fine enough. It suggests you have a distribution, tamp problem and its channelling you are seeing. Do you have a bottomless portafilter?
> 
> I'd back off the fineness slightly, use a needle to move the coffee around a bit in the basket (are you getting clumping?), tamp and go.


In this video clip, Reiss says, "In this clip you can see surging in the flow of the mouse tails - this indicates that my distribution & tamping of this shot has been less than perfect and as a result there is some channelling in operation If there is no channelling the mouse tails will run smoothly until you hit blonding, when they will quaver, giving you a signal to pull the cup http://londiniumespresso.com/blogs/londinium-espresso-blog?page=11

Any help?


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

Another idea, if you keep the grind the same and drop the dose to 15g what happens? Wondering if you have too much coffee in the basket and the puck is getting fractured as you lock the portafilter or during early expansion.


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

@TheSystemicKid - thanks for that, I will take a look when I get home (youtube is barred from work) - but that should give me something to compare my pour with

@repeat - Hadn't hrought of that - definitely worth a try.

Just been speaking to a couple of the (great) baristas in my local Taylor St - they wondered whether it might be brew pressure changes (as the pour starts off OK then seems to gush). Even gave some of their ground coffee to try. I know the grind might not be exactly right and it'll be a bit stale by the time I get home but will hopefully be sufficient to prove that there are no issues with the Expobar. I can also compare their grind with mine to see if I'm in the ball park.

Thanks all for your help and I will update you on progress. (Although the out-laws are visiting this weekend so I'm not sure how much practice time I'm gonna get)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

SweeneyTodd said:


> I've got the Vario grind setting down to 1E.......


Had a nagging feeling I'd read something about adjusting the burrs on the Vario which isn't in the manual. Just in case it's a grinder related problem, here's some info from Home-Barista

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/recalibrating-baratza-vario-t10282.html

From what you've posted and reading others' replies, it does suggest the problem lies in the dosage, grind, tamp area. But if the grinder is an issue, the Home-Barista adjustment just might be useful.

Look forward to hearing you're pulling repeat pukka shots.


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

Fantastic! thanks system kid


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks to everyone on this thread I am now on the path to better coffee.

The top burr on the Vario appeared to seated correctly but I removed it anyway for a good clean. I also continued my WDT with a bent paperclip and tried reducing my dose.

The result is that at 2B on the Vario I'm now getting about 28g from 15g in 24 secs. This is at least drinkable.

i think the biggest difference was reducing the dose. I think it was @repeat who suggested that too large a dose might be resulting in the puck fracturing and that may well have been the case. Reseating the top burr also helped although from what I've read 2B may still be a bit low but at least I'm on the right track.

thanks all


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

SweeneyTodd said:


> Thanks to everyone on this thread I am now on the path to better coffee.
> 
> The top burr on the Vario appeared to seated correctly but I removed it anyway for a good clean. I also continued my WDT with a bent paperclip and tried reducing my dose.
> 
> ...


Good to hear that, SweeneyTodd.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

Great news!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Don't forget, there is no "too low" setting with the vario. Every one is different so a 1E on yours might be a 2E on someone else's.

I vary between about 1E up to about 1K depending on the coffee.

Also, some coffee is just gassy, have you tried different beans. I know I sometimes get a bag and it kind of gushes out with big crema and no amount of grinding finer will slow it. Then the next bag can be spot on.

How about trying a small tap of the PF on the surface just before you tamp? So, grind straight into the PF, WDT, then a small tap, then tamp. This allows the bottom of the coffee to settle a bit as tamping often doesn't actually affect the very bottom of the puck that much. Remember not to tamp too hard or you'll risk rupturing the puck too.

Oh and always run a few beans (3-4g) through after you've had it up there in the 5-10 range. This will clear out any big retained grains of coffee from the chute before you grind into your PF.


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## SweeneyTodd (Jan 4, 2013)

chimpsinties said:


> Don't forget, there is no "too low" setting with the vario. Every one is different so a 1E on yours might be a 2E on someone else's.
> 
> I vary between about 1E up to about 1K depending on the coffee.


Thanks, I would have expecetd some variation although no necessarilly as wide as that. Good to know that my 2B is normal.

WRT knocking the bottom of the PF after WDT yes I do do that (when I remember) but not after tamping (read somewhere that can break up the freshly tamped puck).

I'm pretty new to this coffee lark so all advice is welcome.

I'm just pleased that with a new machine and grinder combination that I'm already producing espresso that is at least drinkable (with help from this forum)


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