# Lelit Bianca questions



## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Hi all. Im considering purchasing a Lelit Bianca and trying to do a bit of research beforehand.

The main appeal (aside from the fact it looks great and seems to be favoured) is the paddle control and the dual-boiler.

Firstly, can this be considered an 'end game' machine for those just wanting to make a couple of very good coffees a day with a milk drink or two? It's obviously a lot of money to spend, but if it is going to bring many years of enjoyable use I don't mind.

Second, can the paddle be used to salvage shots that would otherwise be ruined by not getting the grind/tamp quite perfect? One of my biggest frustrations with machines I've had prior (Silvia/Classic) is the amount of coffee 'wasted' by underextraction when I haven't quite dialled in perfectly.

Obviously it's better to dial in, but if I can make those 'not quite dialled in' shots a bit more drinkable that would be great.

Thanks!


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

hi,

ive been through a few machines and settled with the bianca, its quiet and just works,

the paddle can save shots that are ground to coarse as you can slow the flow, but too fine will still choke it out

im super impressed with mine


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

That's great to hear thanks.


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## Waitforme (Dec 13, 2020)

I've had my Bianca since January, it's end game for me.

I too save the odd shot with the paddle.

If I'm honest I've not really explored using the paddle yet , normally just run the shot and that's it.

I normally have a couple of espressos a day Monday to Thursday and with just the brew boiler on , and use the service boiler at the weekend to make flat whites for my wife.

Compact footprint, plummable, quiet, looks good , appears to be good quality.

Yip, end game for me.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

It's a well designed machine, produces great shots and is all anyone really needs.....quiet too.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Great, exactly what I was hoping to hear. Many thanks.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Purchased!

Thanks again for the positive comments, I'll share a photo when it arrives next week.


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

Waitforme said:


> I've had my Bianca since January, it's end game for me.
> 
> I too save the odd shot with the paddle.
> 
> ...


 If you turn the service boiler off, does it remember the setting when you switch off then turn back on?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Chriss29 Yes it does.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Now the quest for good water


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Cuprajake said:


> Now the quest for good water


 For sure! Having seen what our water does to the Moccamaster (I didn't even dare check previous espresso machines) the last thing I want to do is ruin the internals of a £1800 machine.

Apparently the Bianca ships with some kind of softener? Is this adequate in the absence of an Osmio or similar?

We're moving house shortly, after which a RO machine is on the list, but in the meantime I was planning to use some other softening method.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Use the added softener and good bottle water

I believe ashbeck is quite good but @Rob1 and @MediumRoastSteam will say for sure


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

All I can say is that I used Ashbeck in the past without issues on my Pro-700. I think there were folks here who said it might be corrosive. I don't know.

Regardless, it will eventually cause limescale to build up and you will have to descale. I am not sure of the timings, but at the time, I did check the E61 mushroom and it was fine after a couple of years. As for the service (steam boiler) I never checked.


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## Waitforme (Dec 13, 2020)

I've been using a 50/50 mix of Ashbeck and Volvic.

My understanding is that Volvic is a little high in alkalinity and Ashbeck a little low, mixing them gives the right balance.

Ive no idea what high or low alkalinity does though, maybe it's just taste ?

Perhaps @Rob1 could advise ?


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

If you go down the bottled-H2O route (as i have), then Waitrose Lockhills and Volvic are probably the best options out there - i use WL. To compare bottled waters, use the Langelier Saturation Index. But, as @MediumRoastSteamsays, even the best bottled water will eventually cause some scale. But it will take a LONG time and i doubt that descaling once every 2-3 years will do much if any harm at all. That said, i will probably go for an RO system at some point (when budget allows and i can get a good offer...maybe Skuma).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

europa said:


> i can get a good offer...maybe Skuma


 They have a pretty good offer at the moment if you ask me. But its a Kickstarter project. I'm sure it will materialise. What I am not sure is if it will do what I expect. I will certainly make my mind up on that as soon as someone does an in depth review on them. On paper, it looks great. 🙂


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Fantastic info. Thanks for the help everyone.


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## europa (Oct 21, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> They have a pretty good offer at the moment if you ask me. But its a Kickstarter project. I'm sure it will materialise. What I am not sure is if it will do what I expect. I will certainly make my mind up on that as soon as someone does an in depth review on them. On paper, it looks great. 🙂


 Yea, 179£ is a great price. But June is a long way away and a little risky to commit capital now. Decisions decisions...


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

I got involved with the Skuma offer and they smashed the £15k target in a few hours. Looking at the campaign now, they're raised over £25k which is 172% of the flexible goal target, which was £15k. There have been 116 backers so it's looking very promising.

June gives me time to convince my wife that we need an ACS Minima and find a way of making space for everything in the kitchen / elsewhere.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dutchy101 said:


> June gives me time to convince my wife that we need an ACS Minima and find a way of making space for everything in the kitchen / elsewhere.


 Easy, take her out for a wonderful meal and finally order a coffee. When she has finished the usual putrid thing served up by restaurants, mention you were thinking of getting a decent, but economical prosumer machine.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> decent, but economical prosumer machine.


 @dutchy101

So many adjectives for the machine!







????


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Haha.

"What do you mean the kids need shoes and clothes? We bought them some last year...."


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

@creationtwentytwo

I look at alkalinity for taste. Higher can help prevent water from becoming acidic and corrosive. I aim for about 40mg/l alkalinity and 30mg/l hardness from Magnesium. It isn't necessary but some hardness improves the taste of the water imo. Maybe not worth it if you don't want to drain the service boiler quite regularly.

Ashbeck won't scale in ordinary brew boiler temps or typical service boiler temps immediately but it will for scale quite rapidly in use in a service boiler as you essentially distil the water when steaming causing minerals to be left behind and concentrate. Volvic is slightly scale forming at around 100c iirc so will cause scale in brew boilers very slowly. You can probably mix both Volvic and Ashbeck to avoid scale forming in brew boilers while bumping up alkalinity compared to Ashbeck alone. MWJB has made a spreadsheet on bottled water mixes if you're going down the bottled water route.

I wouldn't use Ashbeck as it's low in alkalinity and contains things I go to great lengths to avoid like chloride and sulphate, same for Volvic really. With steel boilers I really wouldn't want to use either even though it would likely be a very long time before you see any issues, assuming you don't just abuse the service boiler by failing to regularly drain and refresh the water. I would focus on getting the water to be ideal for the brew boiler and then just make sure not to horribly abuse the service boiler by giving it fairly regular very weak descales to prevent large deposits forming that could cause blockages. I siphon mine empty and fill it with distilled water every 5 weeks or so.

P.S

Asda's water is probably a middle ground between volvic and ashbeck, still not the alkalinity I'd want but closer to it than Ashbeck. https://groceries.asda.com/product/still-water/asda-still-natural-mineral-water-bottle/19029 You just need to be sure to check the label as there are multiple different sources with very different compositions all under the same 'brand' and label.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

@Rob1 that's hugely helpful, thank you.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

As @Rob1 says be very careful with the Asda water to ensure you have the right one. The label is exactly the same on waters with very different compositions. Compare this with the one in Rob1's link.

https://groceries.asda.com/product/still-water/asda-still-natural-mineral-water-bottles/910003126202


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Great, thanks.

Aside from the ensuring good water, what's the best cleaning schedule for the Bianca? As in things to do every few days/week/month etc.

I appreciate it might be covered in any included manual/guide but I wondered if any owners had tips to keep it in top shape.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Really depends how much you use it

I back flush with water at the end of a coffee making session, drop the screen once a week and then do a chemical back flush and re grease every 2 to 3 months.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

To be clear on Jake's post above, as it can be read ambiguously, you *must* re grease the cam after a chemical backflush. When I had an E61 machine, I did a chemical backflush and re grease every 6 weeks. My usage was two coffees a day.

For the Bianca, I think it's advisable to lube the flow control valve every 6 months or so too.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks for the info.

Typical usage will be about four or five espresso a day, with one or two milk drinks.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

creationtwentytwo said:


> Thanks for the info.
> 
> Typical usage will be about four or five espresso a day, with one or two milk drinks.


 In that case, I would, personally:

- drop the shower screen at least every other day and clean it. (Very simple, takes a couple of minutes).
- backflush chemically every month and lube the cam.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks.

Do you have a detergent/grease recommendation?

I'm guessing it needs to be food-grade?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@creationtwentytwo Molykote 111 and Puly Caff


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

The Bianca arrived today. Really really impressed early on.

The machine is a joy to use. The included guide is fantastic thanks @DaveC

I haven't tried profiling yet as I just got dialled in with the paddle fully open.

My enjoyment was somewhat short-lived as my Arc scales gave up and I subsequently broke our kitchen scales by getting them wet from the solenoid dumping all over them.

Clifton are replacing the Arc and I've ordered a cheap Amazon special in the interim!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@creationtwentytwo Hope you love the Bianca....It's sub £10 scales all the way for me.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

I top out at 18 quid for the yaga ones @BlackCatCoffee sells. Had them over a yr on the same batteries.

So good i ordered a spare set, i had the acaia and tbh dont see what the fuss is about. They were the pearl though.

the bianca is such a good machine congrats


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Getting absolutely fantastic results, really enjoyable coffee. I'm thankful I 'learned' on a single boiler machine but it's such a joy to just have both boilers ready to go and at the right temp.

Steaming milk seems a lot more forgiving too. Steaming 200ml of oat milk is fast and it's by far the best quality microfoam I've managed to achieve. It's a minor point but I love the longer steam wand too.

Quick question-

With the paddle fully open should I still be aiming for the extraction times suggested on a 'paddle-less' machine?

I'm using a fairly dark roast from Origin, 18g/36g. I get drips around 5 seconds and the shot is finished in about 33 seconds. Tastes great but I just want to be sure I'm not missing anything before I start messing with the paddle.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

creationtwentytwo said:


> With the paddle fully open should I still be aiming for the extraction times suggested on a 'paddle-less' machine?


 Yes. but remember, time is just guidelines. What's "fully open" on your machine might not be "fully open" on others, so you need to figure out what works for you. One variable at the time. So, keep the paddle fully open, try 33s, try 30s, try 37s, try 27s. And see what you prefer.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Great, that makes sense, thanks.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Bit of a silly question but is 19g an acceptable dose in the included 14-18g basket?

I was dosing 18g and getting good results in the cup but I find 19g:38g is slightly more enjoyable and as a bonus yields a far drier puck.

I just want to make sure I'm not over-filling it.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@1984FXSB - if it works for you... Then result 🙂

Long version: It's all guidelines. There's no right or wrong. If the coffee extracts correctly, without channeling etc, and you prefer the taste, then updosing is absolutely fine.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Absolutely loving the Bianca. I've made better coffee in the last week than I think I've ever had, genuinely. It's such a joy to own and use.

I'm very keen to look after it, and conscious the water in my area is very hard. However, I simply do not have space for the Osmio or similar and whilst I appreciate bottled water is far better than tap water, I'm not comfortable with the amount of plastic waste.

If I plumbed it in using one of the inline filtration systems, am I looking at problems later on? I'd love for the machine to last many years so if bottled water is the only way then I'd rather that than a damaged Bianca.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

buy an ro setup,

https://www.finest-filters.co.uk/50gpd-4-stage-complete-ro-reverse-osmosis-unit/

this will give you completely clean water, you then add potassium bicarbonate to the water and job done.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Cuprajake said:


> buy an ro setup,
> 
> https://www.finest-filters.co.uk/50gpd-4-stage-complete-ro-reverse-osmosis-unit/
> 
> this will give you completely clean water, you then add potassium bicarbonate to the water and job done.


 Ah great, thanks for the link.

Two possibly silly questions:

Is the potassium bicarbonate for taste reasons?

And how do I add it to the water if the machine is plumbed in?


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## birdcall (Mar 24, 2021)

Good question. I couldn't see anything at Finest Filters that might help but have a look at http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/ro-water-copper-corrosion as that article provides some useful insight. I am lucky in so far as I have an Osmio Zero stand-alone RO unit and simply add an appropriate amount of bicarb before refilling my Profitec's internal tank. May be worth a call to Osmio to see if they produce the sort of thing you are after for their plumbed in units.
The Coffeetime article provides extra detail but you add bicarb both to raise pH and improve taste in your brew (presumably Potassium Bicarbonate does something similar).


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Great, thanks, that's very helpful.

I've just been looking at Osmio's website and they do some kind of in-line RO system but it mentions a remineralisation stage so I wonder if this would just pose the same scale concerns? I'll contact them to enquire.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

You would use this as a non plumbed in machine,

ro water on its own is corrosive so adding the potassium brings up the levels to safe machine levels,


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

If the water is just for the machine perhaps consider buying a distiller instead. We make 2 coffees a day so only need to distill every 10 days or so. It makes 3l at a time so if you're a heavy user might not be so beneficial.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@1984FXSB

Just a thought !

Under the counter RO is the cheapest solution. However, please check how much waste water it is going to send thru' the drain, which equals the hard earned money to the drain as well.

Our @DavecUK had a similar set up running for several years before he moved to the OZ.

Please review this, if you haven't already.

Btw, enjoy making lovely coffee with Bianca. She is a cracking machine and will serve you for a long time; TLC, of course. 😊


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> @1984FXSB
> 
> Just a thought !
> 
> ...


 Really helpful, thank you.

I think I'm going to need to start building the case for the OZ. It seems like the most sensible solution and looking at the pictures it's quite a neat looking unit.

The fact it dispenses hot water is a huge plus and could negate the need for a kettle? I have a brew kettle used exclusively for pour-over but we use the 'main' kettle for cooking purposes and other hot drinks. I appreciate this is now slightly off-topic but given it's got a 5-litre tank can it be used in place of a kettle for cooking? There's only two of us so if it could fill a pan for cooking pasta or steaming vegetables etc that could help my case!


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@1984FXSB I will tell you a story, if you don't mind.

We are 3; our girl works and lives away from home. When she visits, she loves the zero for three reason. Drinking, making tea and fill up the hot water bag with 100C.

My wife wasn't impressed as we had spent closer to £400 on this. She rolled her eyes when ever I drew water for brews, smoothies, drinking and of course cooking.

She had started using this a couple of weeks later; after a month, she was over the moon saying the best investment we ever made.

Why?

Her nagging stomach troubles had disappeared, we lost a bit of our tummies, the kettle disappeared the day it arrived and the zero became a one-stop for our day to day living.

Does it help? 😊

Edit:

1: Depending on our mood, we boil hot water on the hob; a lot of times, we draw the 65C water for pasta.

2: For all cooking, we use the 100C water. It's on the slower side as you can imagine. I don't know how much of hot water you will draw at a time. We seldom draw more a litre.

3: The vegetables are steamed in Instant Pot.


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## birdcall (Mar 24, 2021)

It is a sensible precaution to protect such a valuable investment.
I think it is a great unit but there are a few things to watch. The water tank is indeed 5l but you can only use 4. You have to use the remaining 1l elsewhere, or discard it. So make sure the machine is accessible as you will be pulling the tank out quite often, particularly if you want to use it for cooking etc. The unit is also bigger than you might think so we'll worth checking on location/counter space. My wife didn't like the look of it out so mine sits in a kitchen cabinet on full extension drawer slides for filling.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks both, much appreciated.

Really interesting to hear about how stomach issues cleared up too. My other half suffers with unexplained (albeit fairly minor) stomach issues which haven't shifted with any of the recommended diets/supplements she has tried over the years, it would be interesting to see if RO water helps her at all!

The only benefit my stomach is likely to see is if the Osmio dispenses zero-calorie craft beer...

We're shortly moving into a house we've just bought which has a larger Kitchen than we have now so hopefully there's a space for it somewhere.

Thanks again.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

1984FXSB said:


> Great, thanks, that's very helpful.
> 
> I've just been looking at Osmio's website and they do some kind of in-line RO system but it mentions a remineralisation stage so I wonder if this would just pose the same scale concerns? I'll contact them to enquire.


 It doesn't add enough minerals for it to be any problem, my machines remain clean as a whistle (which is a funny expression, why would a whistle be spotless)


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## Tmax (Nov 30, 2014)

Great thread on the Bianca - I'm about to pull the trigger

1984FXSB: is your Bianca the 2021 updated model with the slighly longer steam and water outlet arms






Where did you get your one from ?

DavecUK: I use the ZeroWater Filter and Third Wave Water Minerals, for my V60 Pour Overs - Will this be OK in the Bianca?

I had heard that ZeroWater Filters can be corrosive to water boiler tanks, but is that only when using it neat ?

Thanks


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Tmax said:


> 1984FXSB: is your Bianca the 2021 updated model with the slighly longer steam and water outlet arms
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Yep mine is the updated one. I got it from Bella Barista who were really helpful answering a couple of small questions I had and shipping it quickly. Arrived well packaged and the extra guide that comes with it from BB written by @DaveC is a goldmine.

Im nearly three weeks in and it's a joy, I've also barely even touched the profiling paddle yet so plenty to explore. It's a lot of money for sure, but if I was being brutally honest using the sub £1k SB machines I've had prior always felt like a chore, even when the resulting coffee was good.

The Bianca however just feels enjoyable to use, with the added bonus of incredibly good coffee. I can't see myself ever upgrading, I'd have no reason to.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

I realised I hadn't posted any photos since getting the Bianca. Reluctant to show a wider angle as the kitchen in the rental isn't as aesthetically pleasing as the Bianca!


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## Gagaryn (Oct 21, 2021)

That kitchen looks more aesthetically pleasing than mine, and I have owned mine for 25 years.


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Gagaryn said:


> That kitchen looks more aesthetically pleasing than mine, and I have owned mine for 25 years.


 Ha! It must be the angle&#8230;

In fairness it's not terrible, just the 'Landlord's Special', albeit from about 1980.


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## Tmax (Nov 30, 2014)

1984FXSB said:


> Yep mine is the updated one. I got it from Bella Barista who were really helpful answering a couple of small questions I had and shipping it quickly. Arrived well packaged and the extra guide that comes with it from BB written by @DaveC is a goldmine.
> 
> Im nearly three weeks in and it's a joy, I've also barely even touched the profiling paddle yet so plenty to explore. It's a lot of money for sure, but if I was being brutally honest using the sub £1k SB machines I've had prior always felt like a chore, even when the resulting coffee was good.
> 
> The Bianca however just feels enjoyable to use, with the added bonus of incredibly good coffee. I can't see myself ever upgrading, I'd have no reason to.


 Thanks 1984FXSB - I also emailed Bella Barista who were great and confirmed their machines are the updated ones

So I bought this morning and it's already sahipped with FedEx, arriving tomorrow 😀

I used to own a 2-group Brugnetti / MM and Hottop Roaster - so just getting back into it again. I'm really amazed at how top end / experimental stuff back then has become the norm. I remember when David Schomer was talking about temp stabalisation back in the 1980s, and introduced the temp surfing technique for HX machines. Then the PID came along for only the really expensive machines - so the idea of pre-infusion and brew pressure profiling should be fun for me.

Love the pictures of your Bianca btw ! - congrats


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Whats updated


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Cuprajake said:


> Whats updated


https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/62533-lelit-bianca-questions/?do=embed&comment=867909&embedComment=867909&embedDo=findComment

Minor update Jake. There's a video link above where JavaJim explains the update. It's very minor, around the steam and hot water outlets.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

ah, yeah mines the updated version - i know there's a new model out next yr i believe


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

@Tmax thanks. Congrats on the new machine, enjoy it!


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## Tmax (Nov 30, 2014)

Arrived this afternoon - my son helped me get it out of the box !

All setup and working - using my Niche Zero got it dialed in pretty quickly

So far I like it


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

Question for Bianca owners&#8230; does the chemical/'new'/weird taste *ever* dissipate from water out of the hot water dispenser?

I know the genera advice is to just use a kettle but I'd really like to use the hot water wand for Americanos. Mainly for simplicity's sake and to save electricity boiling a kettle since I'm almost always using the steam wand anyway so the service boiler is always on.

I use Volvic water so I'm not too concerned about hard water sitting at the bottom of the service boiler.

I spent this afternoon running six litres through the hot water boiler and it tastes just as weird as it did this morning.

(Still absolutely loving the Bianca though!!)


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

1984FXSB said:


> I use Volvic water so I'm not too concerned about hard water sitting at the bottom of the service boiler


 Volvic will scale at those temperatures, in a matter of days. You'll need to flush and use lots of water for the taste to go away, and even then, it will always taste a bit weird due to the fact minerals deposit at the bottom. There's a thread on this here. Personally&#8230; I'd use a kettle.

*********************.org


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## 1984FXSB (Mar 13, 2009)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Volvic will scale at those temperatures, in a matter of days. You'll need to flush and use lots of water for the taste to go away, and even then, it will always taste a bit weird due to the fact minerals deposit at the bottom. There's a thread on this here. Personally&#8230; I'd use a kettle.
> 
> *********************.org


 Oh! Glad I posted before I thought I was getting away scale-free!

Kettle it is then!

As a sidenote, is Volvic still causing scale when using the steam wand?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

1984FXSB said:


> Oh! Glad I posted before I thought I was getting away scale-free!
> 
> Kettle it is then!
> 
> As a sidenote, is Volvic still causing scale when using the steam wand?


 Yes. As mentioned, it's not the steam wand which causes limescale - it's the temperature of the boiler. When you draw steam, you are effectively drawing pure water in form of vapour, and leaving all the minerals behind inside the boiler.

https://*********************.com/d/118-water-calculator-scaling-potential-and-remineralisation


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