# Valve-less Bags for Retail Coffee



## RDC8 (Dec 6, 2016)

I am considering moving to valve-less bags for some of my retail (mail-order) sales and wondered if anyone is doing this successfully.

Twofold motivation: 1) reduced carbon footprint 2) slightly cheaper cost per bag.

My intention is to use valve-less for whole beans only, as they de-gas slower and shouldn't puff up as much during transit (2-4 days).

I have tested this by

a) leaving a sealed bag (sealed on day of roast) on my bench for 14 days to see what happens (it does swell, but doesn't burst the heat-seal), and

b) sending myself two bags through the mail. Sealed and posted on day of roasting and arriving 3 days later. No damage and seal still intact.

I've also thought about using a pin/needle to make a tiny hole in the bag to allow CO2 to escape, while accepting a small amount of air may enter the bag during transit time.

Any thoughts or experience to share?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I have not used valves for over 5 years, not because it's cheaper, but because the coffee keeps better.

Don't pinhole the bag unless you're going to put tape over it.

You have to ideally pack asap roasting, this minimises co2 production.


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## RDC8 (Dec 6, 2016)

@DavecUK Interesting ... what do you think is causing reduced CO2 if the beans are packed and sealed quickly?

I always pack and seal on the day of roasting, but it might be several hours later.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@RDC8 less oxygenation prior to packing and less oxygen adsorbed into the bean.

My view is if you have a stack of coffee roasted and packed and you go back a day later and there is a nice coffee smell from the unopened bags...it's not a good thing.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

@davecuk I've not heard of this before. Why do you think so many coffee roasters don't follow this and still use valve bags.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> @davecuk I've not heard of this before. Why do you think so many coffee roasters don't follow this and still use valve bags.


 More are starting to pack into valveless bags as they hear about it...I first heard about it when I read about a Dutch roaster doing it dome 6 odd years ago. It made me start my experiments on CO2 production into completely sealed food grade Mylar bags (I use Mylar because it can hold back Hydrogen for quite a while). *I tried to post on CFUK many times about it over the years.....I gave up as there seemed to be a general lack of interest.* I guess if people are not roasters, they felt it was not of interest and didn't affect them....which is of course incorrect.

The reason might be a Zeitgeist of belief driven by some questionable scientific papers about the nature of CO2 production within coffee packaging. The interests of the packaging industry themselves and the marketing focus on compostable/biodegradable packaging, of which there could be a whole other discussion. Plus the look of the bag, which is very important to customers!

There is another problem of course...apart from packing speed mentioned above...some roasters even leave the beans overnight (or longer) before packing. There is the issue of bag expansion and if a bag expands 3cm, it might not be much until you have 20 bags stacked side by side in packaging....the pressure exerted can be very large. So it's not ideal for shipping, but can work if the coffee is shipped fast.

For home use, I always tell my roast sharers they can put a pin into the package if it gets very tight, allow CO2 to leave the bag, then place tape over the hole while the last bits of CO2 are coming out. This way no O2 will enter the bag and the sellotape keeps any O2 from entering, none have ever had to do this to the best of my knowledge, as I don't roast super dark. Going very dark greatly increases the tendency to produce CO2.

Below is a test bag of super dark roast used for testing. I allowed it to balloon up, *pinpricked, pushed out a lot of the CO2 and resealed with tape*, it has not produced any more than that initial amount...you can see above the label the tape I used to seal the hole as CO2 was still exiting the pack. The packaging is great for fridge or freezer.









Below are bags almost 3 weeks post roast. Note that each large bag is less than 7g of packaging. There is a crisp packet recycling scheme near me which proves that these bags can be recycled if there is the will to do it. I suspect the scheme won't take these because they are not a "crisp packet", even though they are essentially the same, just a little thicker.


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## RDC8 (Dec 6, 2016)

I guess its easy to communicate this to a small group of regulars for whom you roast ie family, friends, etc who can be educated so that they "get it".

The average punter who receives a puffed-up valveless bag in the mail might be a little miffed that they didn't receive it packed into a "proper" bag.

As you say Dave, the packing industry, along with many roasters (either willingly or otherwise), have done a lot to shape/manage the expectations of the end user.

I'm wondering if packing while the beans are still slightly warm will have any effect on reducing puffiness as surely the volume of air will decrease as the beans cool. (or is this just wishful thinking!)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

RDC8 said:


> I'm wondering if packing while the beans are still slightly warm will have any effect on reducing puffiness as surely the volume of air will decrease as the beans cool. (or is this just wishful thinking!)


 That's exactly what happens, they almost look like they have been vacuum packed.


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