# Sage DB precise Basket/Tamper size?



## gareth2j (Aug 30, 2014)

The title kind of says it all but I'm struggling to find a post that states the precise basket/tamper size of the stock basket that came with my Sage DB.

I read 58mm in some places but the standard tamper that came with my machine has a bit of wiggle room around the edges, so I'm wondering if it's actually '58.nn' mm and not 58.00 mm

It may not make a massive difference (and as such may be a silly question), but I sometimes wonder if I'm getting all the coffee tamped consistently if there is a tiny space around the edges of the basket.

Has anyone mastered the precise size and if so found a non-stock good tamper that fits the stock basket to avoid the gap?

Cheers

G


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@garydyke1 @ridland @NickdeBug


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I believe the stock Sage baskets are 'similar' to VST's and actually pretty good quality. 58.55mm tamper is a good/close fit but even 58.35mm or 58.4mm will offer a marked improvement over the supplied (58mm?) tamper.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You can use a pergtamp in them !


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Either a 58.4 or 58.55 should do it.


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## gareth2j (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks for the responses.

So if it can take up to a 58.55 would this be the best option to go for, or is there a scenario where 58.4 would be better?

Also I would value your opinion to see if you think it's a worthwhile investment. Do you think the wiggle room with the standard tamper is something that could affect the shot if the edges of the puck are potentially less compressed than the area covered by the stock tamper or is it so negligible that I'd never notice?

As a side the Pergtamp looks nice (a pricey purchase though. Maybe one to ask Santa for...)


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Think you're likely to get varying responses to these questions. Most, but not all, people who have gone from a 58.4mm tamper to a 58.55mm have been happy with the difference and usually continued with a 58.55mm as their main tamper. There's no doubt far more members own and happily use a 58.4mm. They are cheaper, are far more widely available plus more choices of brands, models and types on the market.

It's a matter of opinion if one considers the price difference between your average 58.4mm tamper and say a Pergtamp 58.55mm a worthwhile upgrade/purchase.

Perhaps try both types before you buy if there's any members nearby who have one or the other or better still both.

When I started out with a 58.35mm flat and a 58.4mm convex tamper, I occasionally got channeling, usually around the edges where the tamper hadn't reached. Since purchasing a Torr TI 58.55mm, I've more or less eliminated that problem. Been so happy with it, I sold the other two tampers shortly afterwards!


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## 7877 (Aug 14, 2014)

I'm working with a knock 58.35mm seems perfect to me, it's not totally snug in the basket, a tiny little wiggle room, but I don't think that you really want that tight a fit to be honest.

The thing I personally don't like about the sage tamper is the lack of weight, but it can still do a job...


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## gareth2j (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks all, this is super useful.

@Sibling Chris, I'd be interested to know why you don't think you want a tight fit? Do you think it helps the shot?

As doubleshot suggests I'll probably try a few out but it's good to hear the varying opinions on the best way forward.

Cheers for the help


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've a 58.4 and a 58.55. In one VST basket the 58.55 fits so snug that you can't really do a spinning polish. In my new VST basket it has slightly more room. Precision baskets!


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I'm surprised no-one has suggested that you try nutating to compress around the rim of the basket.

Ian


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I nutate even though using a Torr TI 58.55mm. Works well for me in VST baskets.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

I use a MBK Heft 585 and very happy with that. The SDB standard baskets could be mistaken for VST baskets at a glance. Very good quality but VST is a worthwhile upgrade in my experience. For one thing the VST ridged don't seem to experience the puck stuck to showerscreen which is a very common issue with the Sage standard baskets.


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## gareth2j (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks all this is very interesting. I think on the back of it I'll definitely look to get a new tamper.

Interesting point that the 58.55 might be too snug to allow a spinning polish. Despite hearing generally good things about the SDB stock basket, I'm wondering if their manufacturing margin of error could result in too snug a fit for such a tamper. To ridland's point perhaps I'd be safer going for a VST basket too to be safer than sorry.

This has definitely given me things to consider.

( I was going to ask Pergtamp vs Torr but found that post elsewhere on the forum and don't want to reopen that can of worms. Besides the MBK heft looks pretty nice too)


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I'd go for a VST basket along with a >58.4mm tamper. Doubt you'll regret it.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

gareth2j said:


> Thanks all this is very interesting. I think on the back of it I'll definitely look to get a new tamper.
> 
> Interesting point that the 58.55 might be too snug to allow a spinning polish. Despite hearing generally good things about the SDB stock basket, I'm wondering if their manufacturing margin of error could result in too snug a fit for such a tamper. To ridland's point perhaps I'd be safer going for a VST basket too to be safer than sorry.
> 
> ...


Make sure you read the made by knock thread, so that you're going into it with eyes wide open - if you decided to order from them


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

gareth2j said:


> Interesting point that the 58.55 might be too snug to allow a spinning polish.


It fits perfectly in my new VST I'd like to add.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Nutating required an apology

https://coffeehustle.com/posts/pEcQmYA3jEZEPKa4B/nutation-an-apology?utm_source=The+Hustle&utm_campaign=d4eed6b539-033_Coffee_Hustle_Nutation9_19_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b713472f65-d4eed6b539-256057689


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

An interesting read. I know you don't bother with nutating but I'm kinda with the second person who has commented at the bottom of that page in as much as I've found I've got better results since nutating. Probably has more to do with my tamping skills or lack of, weren't great and so this extra process made a noticeable improvement.

Once my tamping is good enough not to require nutating, I'll happily stop.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> An interesting read. I know you don't bother with nutating but I'm kinda with the second person who has commented at the bottom of that page in as much as I've found I've got better results since nutating. Probably has more to do with my tamping skills or lack of, weren't great and so this extra process made a noticeable improvement.
> 
> Once my tamping is good enough not to require nutating, I'll happily stop.


How will you know when it is, if you don't stop before?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Pretty pours aside , I get a higher and more importantly consistent and controllable TDS when not nutating .


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Which is enough of a reason to stop nutating and improve on my regular tamping technique...


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## gareth2j (Aug 30, 2014)

I'm definitely too slow at reading this forum. I saw Eyedee and Doubleshot's comments about nutating, googled it, watched some videos, liked the logic behind it, gave it a go and got some nice shots.

I come on this evening to see the link to the nutating apology. It was nice while it lasted.

One day I'll figure out the technique for me.

Couple of questions re the VST basket on the SDB portafilter:

1. Is there a best size? I currently dose 18g for a double. Is it the 18g VST basket that fits on the SDB portafilter or would the 20g Competition sized basket the do fit (or is it too deep...I'm not using a naked pf). I have no real desire to dose 20g but the word 'Competition' has its hook into me

2. Ridged vs ridgeless: I see Ridland suggests Ridged but what is the advantage of one over the other (I had a look on the forum for this but couldn't really figure out the general view other than the satisfying 'click' the ridged one gives)?

Thanks

Gareth


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

The latest 'fad' changes often in this coffee making malarkey, lol!

Stick to 18g VST baskets if that's what you usually dose but I believe a 20g competition VST basket will fit a SDB portafilter should you wish to use one?

Ridged baskets 'might' not be a bad idea as it should help prevent the basket from becoming sucked onto the grouphead as ridland mentioned.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd probably recommend 18g as I use this the most. I have 15 and 20g but tend to use 18g more often.


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## 7877 (Aug 14, 2014)

gareth2j said:


> Thanks all, this is super useful.
> 
> @Sibling Chris, I'd be interested to know why you don't think you want a tight fit? Do you think it helps the shot?
> 
> ...


Well I'm using it in an 18g VST I've not really used the stock basest much at all and there may well be a slight size difference.

With the tamper snug it will be hard to give it a little twist or nutate and there is potential to create a bit of a vacuum and loosen the basket content when removing the tamper. Maybe others are coping with a snug fit, that's just my view on it.

I don't nutate btw, 58.35 in the 18g VST for me is perfect. Generally I am dosing 19g but it will take 20g quite easily it seems. I am targeting 19g in and 36-38g out in about 34-35 seconds. Personally I see no point in a larger basket.


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## Drusy (Sep 8, 2015)

Are there any bigger tampers that have the magnet and fit in the machine - it is handy!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

No


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## gareth2j (Aug 30, 2014)

Thanks, 18g VST it is then.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

If I could find a better tamper that has a magnet and slides into the holder, I'd buy it. Somebody please make it!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Or just buy a tamper podium (basically a hockey puck) and show your pride and joy off instead of trying to hide it away!


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