# Random observations - Haters gonna hate



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Watching the recent developments of the EK43 & VST mojo deep-dive-analysis on espresso & discovering that a combination of conventional grinders and conventional espresso machine lead to most coffee shop under-extracting their specialty coffee beans (symptoms including a souring backnote to cooled shots) I decided to do some testing at home. Using a crude testing device - my mouth.

Its well known that I single dose & its well known that single-dosing leads to comparitive under-extraction against using a column of beans (In a robur its 17% versus 18% : below and above 1kg of beans above the throat). I also use , in the main , coffee roasted around light-medium to medium . Thus I suspect that the shots I enjoy are 15-16% extractions , ie the underside of the 'double hump' of espresso tastiness. This is e61 + vibe. Puck isnt hit with 9-10BAR until several seconds into the shot.

So today I decided to play with some variables, those being grind setting & time.

I fixed dose to 20g & temperature to 93c. Output 32g

I dialled in for a 32g output in 35 seconds. The coffee was sweet but a little bit roasty and a little bit tarte.

So adjusted the grind so the same output was reached in 38 seconds. Mouthfeel had changed , the roasty element was still there but less tarte.

So I adjusted the grind so the same output reached in 42 seconds. Mouthfeel changed again, the roasty element not going anywhere the vibrancy of the shot reduced. This is thicker and more rounded.

So I adjusted again, 50 seconds. There wasnt the acidity to match the sweetness, much thicker and gloopier. Again rounded and smooth but not over extracted, no bitterness.

It was only breaching the 60 seconds mark when really any issues occurred. The roasty element started to dominate everything else. acidity all but gone and fully into choccy notes and thick thick mouthfeel. I suspect a drop to 91c and this would have been fine.

I guess what Im trying to say is - even purposely trying to over-extract I couldnt. Who in there right mind considers 60 seconds an acceptable shot time? (keep quiet Slayer owners). In 'normal' shot-time parameters I COULD NOT OVER EXTRACT.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

VERY interesting! So you were just tightening the grind all the time? There has to be a point at which the machine will choke though...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I didnt reach that point but was fairly close at 65-70 second shots. Remember the finer the grind the more fines. Its the fines which choke the machine, some of those particles in the puck are pretty large comparitively.

Now Ill happily redo the test using an EK43 if i can get one (hint hint cough cough) . I suspect Ill be able to go much much finer without choking the machine, if at all. Then Ill be moaning I want the coffee even lighter roasted.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I've been pulling lot of shots 40 secs + recently due to playing about with a few different types of beans at once and not being able to keep each one dialled in. Haven't found too much detriment in the cup.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

I found the latest DSOL bean to be quite acceptable with a 60s plus shot. TBH not that much different taste wise to a 30s shot.

I wasn't actually deliberately going for a slow shot but the recent temperature changes from morning to evening is proving a pain for keeping a grinder dialled in


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