# My first week with a Gaggia Classic



## yorkio

Earlier in the week, I took delivery of a smart and shiny reconditioned Gaggia Classic and have been having a few problems, largely - well, OK, then perhaps not so much largely as most likely entirely - down to an imperfect grasp of what's going on.

The problem is, essentially, one of steam and not water coming out of the group head. The first day I got it, I became convinced it was broken. I primed it as per the instructions at http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3858-So-you%92ve-just-bought-your-Gaggia-Classic... Or at least, I thought I had. The only problem was when I tried making my first shots it was taking me a good couple of minutes to extract a thimbleful of tar so something was clearly going wrong. I tried adjusting the grind as well as using store-bought pre-ground espresso but this made no difference. I was starting to get the impression that the problem wasn't so much the grind as the rate that water was getting through the grouphead. I gave up for the day, convinced that I'd bought a pup.

Day 2. Primed it again. Tried pouring a shot. Worked just fine - my very first recognisable espresso! Not sure at all what I did that was different and hadn't even considered the possibility that it would work so hadn't bothered using the decent beans, just some grim Tesco pre-ground from the back of the cupboard. Still, surprisingly drinkable. Went out for the rest of the day, so only tried the one.

Day 3. This is more like it. Made two or three half-decentish shots throughout the day plus some absurdly rigid foam to sit on top of my espresso. Looked rubbish but actually tasted kind of alright. Kidded myself I'd kind of figured out what was going on and that from now on the journey would be tuning/fine-tuning my technique to match my taste.

Day 4. Back to square one. Up with the lark so fancied something bracing to get me going. Primed the Classic, ground some beans and set to. Disaster. Barely enough coffee to fill a tablespoon. Upon closer inspection, there was no water coming out of the grouphead, just steam. Tried various combinations of buttons trying out half-understood techniques to release the pressure. Tried turning everything off, letting things cool down. Try again, more steam, press buttons, twiddle steam valve, turn it off. Cool down, try again, etc. If it was a computer I'd be looking for a big red button to turn it off and on again. Eventually, after an hour and a half of fannying about and a steadily rising temper, I give up, go back to moca pot and have my first coffee of the day. Resist temptation to hoy the fecker into bin.

Now, having done a bit more reading, I learn that there's actually no need to prime my Classic every day so that was one thing I was doing wrong. Or at least, something I was doing that was entirely unnecessary anyway. Now there are clearly some pretty fundamental things that I'm entirely failing to grasp. But what?


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## MikeHag

Good stuff.

Quick one. Where did you read that you dont need to prime the boiler every day? In my experience you should, and also after steaming, to bring down the temperature and pressure, and protect the seals.


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## yorkio

MikeHag said:


> Good stuff.
> 
> Quick one. Where did you read that you dont need to prime the boiler every day? In my experience you should, and also after steaming, to bring down the temperature and pressure, and protect the seals.


That was post 3 in http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?2016-Classic-Priming-the-pump

Edit:

Oh, hold on, Glenn actually says that there's no need to prime the pump every time you use it, which is not the same thing as not needing to prime it every day! OK, forget I mentioned that bit then!


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## fatboyslim

Try opening the steam valve and releasing pressure then closing steam valve (with all switches in the 0 position), before pulling a shot.

When not much water is coming out of the group head, how loud is the pump?


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## yorkio

fatboyslim said:


> Try opening the steam valve and releasing pressure then closing steam valve (with all switches in the 0 position), before pulling a shot.
> 
> When not much water is coming out of the group head, how loud is the pump?


Not hugely loud. However, I'm not in a position to test it out, because I've just turned it on and everything is back to working normally again. Well, chances are it was actually working normally before too, but I just wasn't understanding what was going on and how to get out of it!


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## Glenn

It sounds to me like you have hit the steam switch and therefore when heated to the right temp only steam is coming out of the group.

Is the steam switch turned on or off when trying to extract your espresso?


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## chimpsinties

Also remember to keep an eye on the water level in the tank. If you run it dry (or nearly dry) there's a chance your pump will suck up a load of air and WILL need priming again. You shouldn't really need to prime it every day as long as you don't let it run dry.

To Prime: turn all 3 switches on and open steam valve and let water come through for a bit.

Every time you use the machine: Let it heat up using just switch 1. Before you're about to pull your shot run some water through the group head for about 5 secs using Switch 3. This will release any pressure and steam built up and water should flow freely, you'd probably get about 3oz in 5 secs. You can use this to warm your cup(s). Wait for the light to go out (this means it's heating the fresh water in the boiler), stick your PortaFilter on, as soon as the light comes back on start your shot using switch 3. Twenty five seconds later you should have a lovely 2oz of beautiful espresso.

Only use the steam switch in 2 scenarios. 1) When you want water from your steam wand, in which case all 3 switches should be on and steam valve open. 2) When you want steam, turn steam switch on and wait for temp to be right (light on) then open steam valve. It's normal to get a bit of water at first then steam should could out of wand. Make sure you run water through the group head after steaming to get rid of any steam and get the temp right again.


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## yorkio

Glenn said:


> Is the steam switch turned on or off when trying to extract your espresso?


Well, I think it was off. But I wouldn't swear to it. And now that it's behaving itself again, there's no way of telling. (It does sound kind of likely though, when you put it like that.)

Right, I'm off to the kitchen and I may be some time.


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## yorkio

chimpsinties said:


> Also remember to keep an eye on the water level in the tank. If you run it dry (or nearly dry) there's a chance your pump will suck up a load of air and WILL need priming again. You shouldn't really need to prime it every day as long as you don't let it run dry.


Do domestic users tend to keep their tanks full then? I've been emptying it out at the end of the day and filling it fresh the next morning.



> To Prime: turn all 3 switches on and open steam valve and let water come through for a bit.


Thanks for that - I think I'm going to print that out and stick it on the wall above the machine!


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## chimpsinties

yorkio said:


> Do domestic users tend to keep their tanks full then? I've been emptying it out at the end of the day and filling it fresh the next morning.


If you make about 2-3 espressos a day and with the flushing etc, you'll get through a tank within about 3 days I'd say. There's no need to chuck the water out at the end of the day. Just keep topping it up with fresh filtered water every couple of days and wash it out completely every month or so and you'll be fine.

Your problem might have been because you were emptying it every day you were getting air in your pump. When the intake hose is constantly submerged this can't happen and you don't need to prime every day. If you were to empty it and leave it empty over night then I'd say you should DEFINITELY prime every day before use. Other wise you could damage your pump.


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## MikeHag

3, maybe 4 double shots is all I get out of a full tank on the classic when factoring in pre-shot and post-steam flushing/surfing, so effectively it get's a daily refill.


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## yorkio

Right, it just happened again! I just made a fairly unpleasant espresso (but that's a post for another day) and frothed a bit of milk. To turn the steam off, I first closed the steam valve. Then gave it a quick blast of water through the group head, which produced mostly steam. It was at that point that I noticed I'd not turned the steam switch off, so I did. And now I'm just getting steam out of the group head, even though the steam switch is now off.

I suspect that doing things in this order is how I got into a mess earlier. I take it my big mistake was in not hitting the off on the steam switch the moment I was done steaming?


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## gaggiamanualservice.com

Hi, first heat the water, only have the 1st (left hand) switch, on. make sure its primed. open steam knob then press 3rd, (right button) till water comes through arm. press 3rd off. close steam knob. make coffee. then press middle to heat steam. froth milk then turn middle off. put container under steam wand and open the steam knob. press 3rd and let water go into cup. your arm is clear and now ready to make next coffee.

NEVER PRESS 3rd WHEN STEAM IS STILL IN BOILER AND STEAM VALVE CLOSED.

mark


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## xiuxiuejar

My wife's asked me to make hot chocolate with the steam wand. Do I have to run water through the wand and head right after steaming or wait till the machine is cooler? Wanted to try the steamer out but never got round to it and now thinking about it, seems silly to put cold water through a really hot group head, no?!


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## chimpsinties

What makes you think it will be cold? The water still has to pass through the boiler and all the hot pipe work before it gets to the group head so even if it's been drawn right from the tank it'll be quite hot by the time it comes out.

The main reason you flush the steam wand after milk is to clean it. You don't want lots of hot burnt milk going off inside. YuK!


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## xiuxiuejar

chimpsinties said:


> What makes you think it will be cold? The water still has to pass through the boiler and all the hot pipe work before it gets to the group head so even if it's been drawn right from the tank it'll be quite hot by the time it comes out.
> 
> The main reason you flush the steam wand after milk is to clean it. You don't want lots of hot burnt milk going off inside. YuK!


the steam wand yes but what about the group head?


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## chimpsinties

What do you mean? You want to know the reason why you'd flush the group head? Or you think the water will be cold coming through the group head? I don't really understand you question?

You'd flush the group head to get rid of the steam and really hot water from that part of the system before you brew a shot (or another shot if you're doing one straight after the other). You should always flush the group head for this reason before you pull a shot.


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## xiuxiuejar

chimpsinties said:


> What do you mean? You want to know the reason why you'd flush the group head? Or you think the water will be cold coming through the group head? I don't really understand you question?
> 
> You'd flush the group head to get rid of the steam and really hot water from that part of the system before you brew a shot (or another shot if you're doing one straight after the other). You should always flush the group head for this reason before you pull a shot.


I always flush before a shot but as I have never steamed milk I didn't know whether to flush the group head after steaming.


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## chimpsinties

It's probably worth it. It'll help relieve the pressure and extra hot water from around that part of the system.


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## yorkio

gaggiamanualservice.com said:


> Hi, first heat the water, only have the 1st (left hand) switch, on. make sure its primed. open steam knob then press 3rd, (right button) till water comes through arm. press 3rd off. close steam knob.


So I shouldn't be pressing the middle (steam) switch at all when I'm priming? Just open up the steam knob and then hit the brew switch?



> make coffee. then press middle to heat steam. froth milk then turn middle off. put container under steam wand and open the steam knob. press 3rd and let water go into cup. your arm is clear and now ready to make next coffee.


It's that final stage when it all goes wrong for me, I think. Once I've steamed the milk, I somehow always manage to screw something up and end up with a machine blowing steam out of every hole! I'm going to have to sit down tomorrow and go through all this methodically and see how I get on&#8230;

Thanks for your patience.


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## gaggiamanualservice.com

The middle switch is only ever used when you need to produce steam. once you have frothed turn offthe middle switch, then open steam arm to clear any milk.

mark


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## snegger

be carefull not to pull too much water throught just before you do a shot,some people pull some hot water first to warm cups etc in my experience this will result in the brew temp lowering too much for an espresso,if you have waited for the water to warm up for at least 30 mins on first turning the machine on and 5 - 10 mins between shots,pulling 3-5oz of hot water just before you pull I shot will mean bringing the same amount of cold water into the boiler! pulling a shot a few seconds later will be asking too much of the machine to have it hot in time for the shot.


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## chimpsinties

snegger said:


> be carefull not to pull too much water throught just before you do a shot,some people pull some hot water first to warm cups etc in my experience this will result in the brew temp lowering too much for an espresso,if you have waited for the water to warm up for at least 30 mins on first turning the machine on and 5 - 10 mins between shots,pulling 3-5oz of hot water just before you pull I shot will mean bringing the same amount of cold water into the boiler! pulling a shot a few seconds later will be asking too much of the machine to have it hot in time for the shot.


So what's the point in the thermostat heating the water then the light coming on to tell you it's ready if it's not actually up to temperature? Does this mean that all the videos and advice about temp surfing that machine before you pull a shot are wrong? I've been using mine like this quite happily for ages and getting great shots.


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## snegger

chimpsinties said:


> So what's the point in the thermostat heating the water then the light coming on to tell you it's ready if it's not actually up to temperature? Does this mean that all the videos and advice about temp surfing that machine before you pull a shot are wrong? I've been using mine like this quite happily for ages and getting great shots.


short answer is yes,I tested this and each time I pulled hot water the machine would not be at temp again for at leat 3-4 heat cycles,even when the light is showing it is ready to brew,I was measuring big heat drops for at least 5 mins after using the brew swich.


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## chimpsinties

snegger said:


> short answer is yes,I tested this and each time I pulled hot water the machine would not be at temp again for at leat 3-4 heat cycles,even when the light is showing it is ready to brew,I was measuring big heat drops for at least 5 mins after using the brew swich.


Alright then I'll rephrase it. Have you tested the taste of a shot made after flushing and temp surfing as opposed to just letting it sit and heat cycle 4 times then pouring right away? Maybe it's because I've always temp surfed (or at least filled my cup up to warm it) before I extract that I've always been perfectly happy with the taste.


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## snegger

think how good it would taste brewed at the correct temp! fact is the temp is badly affected whether you prefer the taste is a different question.

knowing how long the machine takes to pre heat,also how fast the steam runs out etc it's not a big jump that flooding the boiler with 3oz-5oz of water,a matter of seconds before pulling a shot would lower the temp badly,just checked it seems the boiler size is 3.5oz! do the stryrofoam cup test you will be surprised at the results.

Taste is subjective,I thought Cafe Nero's coffee was good at one time lol


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## chimpsinties

Yes taste is subjective which is why I'm asking you if you've actually compared the difference?

It surprises me that so many people champion the temp surfing technique if it's detrimental to the taste. Yes the boiler is small, but by the same token if it's hot already and the heater is on, surely it can heat that water up pretty quick.

I suppose I'll just have to get a styrofoam cup and try this out for myself. Or experiment by temp surfing then pulling a shot, followed by a 5 min wait then pulling a shot with no flushing. I'm predicting that the taste difference will be minimal if at all perceptible. but I'm willing to prove myself wrong.


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## snegger

they are not cheap! 10 for £1.65 I think it was from Sainsburys.


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## chimpsinties

snegger said:


> they are not cheap! 10 for £1.65 I think it was from Sainsburys.


I think after spending £££'s in pursuit of the prefect coffee I can stretch to £1.65 tbh


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## snegger

chimpsinties said:


> I think after spending £££'s in pursuit of the prefect coffee I can stretch to £1.65 tbh


Glad to hear it,I was about to offer you a loan of one of mine.


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## chimpsinties

snegger said:


> Glad to hear it,I was about to offer you a loan of one of mine.


Haha! Imagine the packaging needed to allow a fragile cup to survive a trip via RoyalSnail. It'd probably end up costing you about £5


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## fatboyslim

If you are too lazy to temperature surf like me, get a PID


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## chimpsinties

fatboyslim said:


> If you are too lazy to temperature surf like me, get a PID


Yeah but aren't they like £150+?

I'd love a PID but I think I'll just save up for my Giotto Evoluzione then I won't have a problem







This time next year fingers crossed


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## fatboyslim

If you don't get steam control or pre-infusion they are like £80 but I absolutely 100% recommend getting steam control. Not so much pre-infusion.

Great consistency without any temperature surfing.


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## snegger

chimpsinties said:


> I'll just save up for my Giotto Evoluzione then I won't have a problem
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This time next year fingers crossed


wow just watched a youtube on one of those and thought it was going to be at least £3k they look great!


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## chimpsinties

I fell in love with one a couple of months ago so started to save £100+ a month until I have enough. The just look gorgeous (plus it'll go nicely with my tamper







)


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## snegger

chimpsinties said:


> I fell in love with one a couple of months ago so started to save £100+ a month until I have enough. The just look gorgeous (plus it'll go nicely with my tamper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


second thoughts...don't buy those cups you will be that bit nearer.


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## yorkio

I'm still not having any joy here, I'm afraid. I managed a brew first thing this morning. Then, when I tried again half an hour or so later, I got the familiar puff of steam out of the grouphead. So far as I can tell, I'm following the instructions to the letter, so I really can't figure out where I'm going wrong.

So I left everything to cool down for the day (not least my own temper!). Then I tried again after dinner. Turned the machine on, gave the brew switch a quick flick to ensure it was primed. Yep, plenty of water flowing OK. Quickly shut off brew switch. Wander off for 20 minutes or so while it warms up. In the meantime, grind the last of my beans, warm a couple of cups and get the milk out of the fridge. Finally I lock the portafilter into place, glance at the second-hand on my watch and hit the brew switch. Ten seconds later, I get a couple of drips of inky black coffee. Then a couple more. And that's it. I shut it off after 30 seconds. I take off the portafilter so I can see what's going on and press the brew switch again. There's a bit of a cough and a splutter as a bit of steamy water comes out of the shower screen, then after ten seconds or so just steam. And that was it. I shut it all off and put the kettle on.

Oh well, just as well there was still a jar of Nescafe at the back of the cupboard&#8230;

What am I doing wrong? Is there something I could inadvertently be doing at just the wrong time that completely puts a spanner in the works? I would never discount the possibility that it's me who's cocking everything up but how exactly?


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## snegger

when you say you warm the cups,do you draw water from the machine to do that? if so it would only cool the water down,it wouldn't be causing the problem your having.

have you ground the coffee too fine? that would stop water coming out,the only other thing I can think of is you are leaving the steamer switch on,so the water is too hot,so will come out as steam first,apart from that I cant see what you are doing wrong,maybe your machine is broken,youtube have some good Gaggia vids,to check your method.


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## snegger

oops, having connection problems which result in multiple posts.


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## chimpsinties

What about creating a video of your entire technique and posting it for us to see. We might be able to spot a problem that way.


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## fatboyslim

I like to purge a bit of water/steam from the steam wand without any switches flicked, just by twisting steam knob.

Only for about 3-4 seconds to equalise the pressure.

This doesn't affect brew temperature.


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## yorkio

chimpsinties said:


> What about creating a video of your entire technique and posting it for us to see. We might be able to spot a problem that way.


That's exactly what I was thinking. I must be doing something daft and just not realising it. Might have to leave it till the weekend though.


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## yorkio

snegger said:


> when you say you warm the cups,do you draw water from the machine to do that? if so it would only cool the water down,it wouldn't be causing the problem your having.


No, just a spot of hot water from the tap.



> have you ground the coffee too fine? that would stop water coming out,the only other thing I can think of is you are leaving the steamer switch on,so the water is too hot,so will come out as steam first,apart from that I cant see what you are doing wrong,maybe your machine is broken,youtube have some good Gaggia vids,to check your method.


I'm two or three clicks from the end of my Porlex so I wouldn't have thought so. I also had the same problem with some pre-ground Tesco espresso. I've only got the weedy little plastic tamper so I'm not tamping it down too tight, or at least I wouldn't have thought so anyway.

Steam switch is definitely off. Steam valve is shut.

I'm going to have to video it and let people have a look. I stil wouldn't bet against it being user error!


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## snegger

just to add, don't think pre bought ground coffee will be ground correctly,I could not use pre ground in my last machine at all,it would totally jam the machine up.


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## tribs

gaggiamanualservice.com said:


> NEVER PRESS 3rd WHEN STEAM IS STILL IN BOILER AND STEAM VALVE CLOSED.
> 
> mark


Hi Mark

I am certainly not questioning this advice, but I was wondering the consequences of such an action.

Thanks

tribs


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## james10

Just a thought. The machine is second hand, so someone may have played around with the OPV and set the pressure limit far too low?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yorkio

james10 said:


> Just a thought. The machine is second hand, so someone may have played around with the OPV and set the pressure limit far too low?


It came from a very respectable and trustworthy source, so I'd have thought not.


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