# Any Odyssey candidates



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Morning, is anyone going to hold their hand up and say they have committed? I have not really followed this project but I see all prices are there now plus I think they are estimating shipping in January. I thought this was fund crowded initially?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Morning, is anyone going to hold their hand up and say they have committed? I have not really followed this project but I see all prices are there now plus I think they are estimating shipping in January. I thought this was fund crowded initially?


 I'm interested, but, I want to see real information and usage out there beforehand.


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

I Committed as soon as the project went up.
La Pav/Faeme etc haven't been bothered to update their designs for over twenty years so I am happy to support a new player.
I'd love an Evo too but there is only so much bench space available.
It's cheaper than a new bicycle.


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

Oh, just to compare.
On line prices for used machines in Oz at the moment.
1950 unrestored Faemina $1100.
Electra MC, $1700.
LP Pro $1950.
LP 1973 110v unrestored $700( best but still ???).

At somewhere between $1500 and $2000 aud the Argus is a good gamble in my mind.
The squeals from interweb folks that their favourite influencers haven't been allowed to critique it yet just make me laugh.
There are about four folks whose opinions I value, none of them have commented, yet&#8230;&#8230;


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

At $850 - got a lot going for it. Like the option of having a choice of spring lever pressure - nice touch. Very sensible offering the customer the choice of add ons - pressure transducer, analogue pressure gauge etc and at prices that don't cane the buyer. Spares - heater element, piston assembly also reasonably priced. Deserves to gain its place in the compact lever sector of the market.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@The Systemic Kid hard to see how any other compact levers out there, or yet to be launched, are going to come close.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Argos is going to come in at well under £1k shipped and including VAT and import tax. Looks very good value for money.


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## yoshi005 (Sep 2, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> @The Systemic Kid hard to see how any other compact levers out there, or yet to be launched, are going to come close.


 I can imagine that I would rather prefer the compact lever to be launched, but I am more of a conservative type.


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## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Argos is going to come in at well under £1k shipped and including VAT and import tax. Looks very good value for money.


 I doubt that, shipping was expensive (maybe 170$?), and if I recall correctly, vat is applied on price incl. Shipping. Assuming 900$ (an analog gauge or springs etc as add-ons), 170$ shipping, that'd be already nearly 1100$, or £800. Add some VAT and duties and we probably approach, if not surpass, the £1k mark.

Still good value, mind you. But much more so for US customers than for UK/EU.

I'm not on the market but if I was I'd consider the second batch once the inevitable teething issues which always follow a new launch will be resolved.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think, the Argos (where did they get that name from!) demonstrates the difference between a cad design plus a handful of excuses, and something actually coming to market, perfect or not


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I think there will definitely be issues to resolve after reviews, etc. I'll be waiting before committing as he's said he's not capping order and no intentions of increasing the price.

I saw a video of him locking the PF in and the whole thing twisted, it didn't look very strong. The boiler is mounted on posts and I'm not sure how good of an idea that is...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

newdent said:


> I think there will definitely be issues to resolve after reviews, etc. I'll be waiting before committing as he's said he's not capping order and no intentions of increasing the price.
> 
> I saw a video of him locking the PF in and the whole thing twisted, it didn't look very strong. The boiler is mounted on posts and I'm not sure how good of an idea that is...


 I can't find any of these videos people keep referring to? Any chance of a link


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> I can't find any of these videos people keep referring to? Any chance of a link


 If you follow on Instagram, most of the videos are in his stories, so not sure how long they'll be available for. https://instagram.com/odysseyespresso

I was surprised just how much the whole thing was flexing during the shot too. Sure, the back plate was off but it looks like a light weight cover, not sure how much strength it would add.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

You can see in this image how the boiler is mounted on posts. https://www.instagram.com/p/CQtlwIihfYS/

His recommended method for locking in the PF is to hold the base. In the video his finger hit the drip tray and it nearly toppled over (held in place with a magnet) and as he locked the PF in, the whole thing flexed and twisted slightly. Are those posts going to take that strain over and over for years? Especially being flexed the other direction when pulling a shot.

Even if they are up to the job, I'm not sure I'd like my machine flexing like that during use...


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Instagram seems to be down??

can't understand why he is posting all the videos there, almost as if he wants to make it difficult?

I'm getting this crap


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

newdent said:


> I was surprised just how much the whole thing was flexing during the shot too. Sure, the back plate was off but it looks like a light weight cover, not sure how much strength it would add.


 Can you post the link? Can only find this:

https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17917140994861849/


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Can you post the link? Can only find this:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/stories/highlights/17917140994861849/


 Unfortunately, I think stories only last 24h but I'm sure he'll put more test videos up.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Instagram seems to be down??
> 
> can't understand why he is posting all the videos there, almost as if he wants to make it difficult?


 Instagram is not down.

most people these days use Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Vimeo, Youtube to post multimedia such as images and videos. It's quite a common thing.

if I were Odyssey, I'd work in integrating multimedia capabilities onto his own website and attract visitors and therefore rank higher.

The advantage of FB and Instagram (same company) is that it offers the ability for all sorts of multimedia. But most of the time you need to log in.

Don't like Facebook? Do you use WhatsApp? Guess what&#8230;

I use Facebook mainly for messenger, groups and SSO these days. And I use WhatsApp quite a lot!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)




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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Instagram seems to be down??
> 
> can't understand why he is posting all the videos there, almost as if he wants to make it difficult?
> 
> ...


 Works for me. Try incognito. Maybe you have a cookie and that's sending something it doesn't want (like, trying to log you in and kicking you out).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Instagram is not down.
> 
> most people these days use Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Vimeo, Youtube to post multimedia such as images and videos. It's quite a common thing.
> 
> ...


 Your right a registration bug has blocked my IP, apparently searching online there appears to be know way to fix this? Instagram started flashing accept review T&Cs or whatever ion a loop before exiting with that error, can't get on with phone either...so I guess, I will never see the videos. Instagrams sent me welcome and confirmation emails of course <lol>


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Your right a registration bug has blocked my IP, apparently searching online there appears to be know way to fix this?


 PM'd. 😉


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Your right a registration bug has blocked my IP, apparently searching online there appears to be know way to fix this? Instagram started flashing accept review T&Cs or whatever ion a loop before exiting with that error, can't get on with phone either...so I guess, I will never see the videos. Instagrams sent me welcome and confirmation emails of course <lol>


 Dave, use the phone, but do not connect to your network (use mobile data). Turn the data radio off/on in an attempt to get a new IP lease.

also clean all the Instagram stored data (almost as if it was brand new fresh installed).

Then try to login again.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

got in on the phone, can't see any of the twisting videos referred to?? product really needs the sort of review I did on the Niche, before people were asked to part with their money.


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

Sorry if this breaks forum rules but it directly addresses most of the questions that have been raised here.
I have no affiliation with Ross or Odyssey other than having ordered an Argus.










  

 














*
Odyssey Espresso
Argos Weekly Update: September 7, 2021
*














One week after launch we hit our 200 order minimum required to begin manufacturing. Thank you to all the early adopters who made this happen!






*Hardware*






Design changes. As the first pre-production machine has been tested over the past few months, a few small design changes are being made to perfect the final design.

1. Wood Panel screws on the sides are being replaced with hidden magnets to clean up the look as seen in the renders.

2. Electronics board updates; including replacing the mechanical heating element relay with a solid state relay for faster response and prolonged life and hardware filters to clean up the thermocouple readings used in the PID control.

3. Lever linkage redesign. The original design required two separate length linkages that would be included and required for swapping from direct to spring lever configurations. This design has been updated to make the swap possible with a single linkage to work with both configurations.

New parts, boards, and panels are expected to arrive by the end of the week or early next week and will allow us to build up the other 4 units for reviews, continued testing, and color/wood configuration display.

With these new parts I will be able to include video on the swap from spring to direct as well as finish dialing in machine controls with the reduced error in sensor readings.

Portafilters and steam wands are the long lead item parts but also the ones that do not require design changes. This order is being placed this week to get the ball rolling on those and some other major components that are not going to change. Once linkages, circuit boards, and covers/ panels are all tested and validated, those orders will be placed likely in 3 weeks.






*Software*






We're continuing to make great progress with the Odyssey Espresso App. We recently got connected to the Bluetooth transducer and started plotting data as well as to the native Argos sensors. We're currently working on scale integrations with the first two being Decent and Acaia.






*Tasks for next week*






Test new linkage design

Begin building other 4 pre-production machines

Test new circuit boards

Continue working on Decent/Acaia scale integration with app

Investigate auto start/stop brew plotting based on pressure threshold






Thanks,

Ross Ainsworth

www.odysseyespresso.com










 






1942 Broadway St. STE 314C, Boulder, CO, 80302, United States

Powered by Squarespace

Unsubscribe


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Are people who have purchased getting updates that he's not releasing to the public? Seems to have been radio silence for ages now except clips of him weighing beans followed my pics of a shot he made, no video of the shot itself or owt.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

newdent said:


> Are people who have purchased getting updates that he's not releasing to the public? Seems to have been radio silence for ages now except clips of him weighing beans followed my pics of a shot he made, no video of the shot itself or owt.


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## Kremfresh (May 26, 2020)

@newdentyour post was Tuesday and I received an email update on Thursday. Did you receive that? Ross has said he wants to increase the comms and go bi-weekly.

Appreciate it's not this forum and not sure what the rules are for other forums&#8230;but he's very active on a discord channel I follow


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@Kremfresh I think a lot of modern business owners, make the mistake of personalising communications to customers. Sure it takes a little time to set up an email distribution list, but once that's done it is easy.....


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

Kremfresh said:


> @newdentyour post was Tuesday and I received an email update on Thursday. Did you receive that? Ross has said he wants to increase the comms and go bi-weekly.
> 
> Appreciate it's not this forum and not sure what the rules are for other forums&#8230;but he's very active on a discord channel I follow


 I took the bi-weekly comment to mean fortnightly but I agree he has been in touch with backers.
He'd probably get more than $200k in defamation payments.


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## Kremfresh (May 26, 2020)

@Pasturemastereven at my age I still get confused whether bi-weekly means fortnightly or twice a week! Either way I'd be happy with an/the increase in comms. His Instagram has had some more content recently too if that's your thing.

@dfk41couldn't agree more!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

fresh I think a lot of modern business owners, make the mistake of *not* personalising communications to customers. Sure it takes a little time to set up an email distribution list, but once that's done it is easy.....

The above has a type in bold that I have added


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## freemanator (Jul 13, 2021)

I've been thinking of it, but the shipping and my financial preparedness are making me think I'll wait.

Will likely get a shot to travel to the States for work in 2022, and have people I could ship it to there and then look to bring it back myself, given it's size and weight.


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## Kremfresh (May 26, 2020)

@freemanatorwhere are you based? I'm in SE London, hope to have mine Spring '22 and would be happy for people to experiment if the planets align etc!


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## freemanator (Jul 13, 2021)

Amazing offer thanks @Kremfresh I'd definitely love to take you up on that. Sent you a DM.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Well the updates haven't come twice a week and I think today is two weeks since the last one, maybe an update today is due?!


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Tempted. Anyone got a update on updates? 🙂


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Any thoughts on the CT2 versus the Argos? The former seems to be twice the price and doubtless well engineered. I imagine the user experience could be similar. Argos basket is 58mm vs 49mm or 50mm (notnsure which). Argos comes with 2 spring options or it can be used with none. Argos has PID.

Very interested in any observations or thoughts. I'd like to buy one or the other.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

There's still not much info on the Argos that I've seen. He promised bi-weekly updates but they never materialised, everything went quiet on instagram but he has recently started posting videos of coffee he's making in his stories again but no updates on the actual machine. Not even any videos of the coffee being made on the machine, which would at least give some insight into seeing it working, just a photo of unground beans followed by a photo of a milky coffee that came from said coffee. Baffling.

If I'd bought one I'd be pretty livid with the lack of communication considering the original claim was to be shipping them out by now. Personally, I'd want to see some independent reviews before buying.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@newdent I think it probably shows it's not as easy as he thought to design an espresso machine and get it into production.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

These new machines, from start ups (versus established manufacturers) seem to go through several phases.

Phase one is getting a successful prototype which is doubtless tricky enough. I'm sure many inexperienced founders think that the job is all but done at that point. It must be tempting though to stop communicating if there are significant challenges because you've taken people's money and are wanting to generate more sales and money is probably tight. If you communicate setbacks you are going to be worried about refund requests and a slow down of new orders, threatening the life blood of any business which is cash flow. I'm not saying that this is the case with Argos; we don't know and there is not much in the way of recent communication so we are left with crystal ball gazing.

Phase two is generating independent reviews which some seem to skip, perhaps in fear of the project being DOA if the reviews are negative.

Phase three is scaling up for the first batch of version one (Windows 286 Version 1.0 anyone?) which these days can come with very significant supply chain challenges and in the case of a firm selling a large first run (e.g. Osma pre-sold the majority of their first 1,000 batch) comes with hiring and the consequent personnel issues. Many founders are technicians and creators and some must feel sorely exposed in terms of management and leadership skills at this point.

Phase four seems to be the release of the first batch which is probably the first time a statistically significant number of machines are out in the market. That release is closely followed by a lot of feedback which may be a mixture of critical issues (as in the case of Xbar) or highly desirable improvements (as in the case of Osma) requiring new parts or minor redesigns which slow down the second batch release.

Phase five is either a successful transition to a manufacturing business (e.g. Decent) or the collapse of the dream; witness countless crowd funding campaigns that after initially getting machines to their backers, are now sadly nowhere to be seen.

FWIW: my experience of backing Xbar versus Osma.

I have to say that Xbar have done a terrific job of communicating with their backers including early challenges, the need to address a significant part issue as well as delays in delivery times.

Osma, (good hearted people though they seem to be and by the accounts from early recipients, the machine is great) have been abysmal in communicating delivery times and random in where and when they communicate updates. To their credit they don't seem to have deliberately hidden their challenges. But their backers' community on "Discord" has been like the wild west without the sheriffs for most of their production phase - lots of cowboys, a few outlaws and almost entirely absent of anyone from Osma itself. The platform they chose for communication is indeed aptly named.

It's clear from @Pasturemaster post that Ross intends to develop four pre-production units, presumably for the purpose of independent reviews. Also, from the post it looks like some well thought-out improvements are being worked on which are unrelated to the core functionality of the machine (producing a great espresso). In absence of any updates, I guess that's where he is still at. The stated delivery timeframe of January 2022 may prove to be optimistic but fingers crossed.

It must be tough designing, building and manufacturing a new machine from the ground up. It's not for the faint-hearted, particularly in today's world of social media where so many find it all too easy to default to negativity. I really wish Ross and the Argos every success and my guess is that he is the type of person that won't sleep well until he has a game changing machine out into the market.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

As posted above I was tossing up between ordering the Strietman CT2 or the Odyssey Argos.

I went with the CT2. Thanks to those members who posted opinions because you helped with the decision making process. Expected ETA January.

Even though the Odyssey Argos is around half the price and has more features, the CT2 is a proven performer and premium quality.

It helped a little that Wouter Strietman confirmed they have a supply of all parts that will likely last until Christmas, although TBH waiting a few months would not have out me off; I'm getting used to it.

Also, even though I'm very impressed with the features available for the price of the Argos, I have a hankering for the minimalist CT2.

Speaking of which, the CT2 will be parked on my coffee island next to the Decent DE1XL - a stark contrast in approaches to espresso.

Celebrate diversity!


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Update received by email yesterday:









​ 



*
Odyssey Espresso
Argos Update: November 29, 2021
*










We appreciate everyone's support as orders continue to flow in. It is assumed that all items ordered with the Argos will ship in the same box as the machine.



​



*Hardware*



Issues with the new circuit board design have been identified and resolved. The board is up and running and we've been continuing testing and modifying control logic for the past few weeks.

Unfortunate news: A delay with Portafilters has been identified. The lead time has been pushed to April 2022 delivery due to global material shortages. We are working on finding an alternate supplier to get estimates on an additional batch of parts. Due to the nature of custom cast components, it may not be viable to get these any quicker. Another possible alternative we will be exploring is machined portafilters which will have a completely different look and may or may not be economically feasible.

I will keep everyone posted on the status of these parts but for any orders already placed I would anticipate an April ship date. All machines will be built, inspected, and packaged well before April but will not ship out without the portafilters. Off the shelf portafilters are not likely to fit this machine due to the compact nature of the design.

New wood side panels are made and ready for testing the magnetic attachment in the next few days.



​



*Software*



The Decent scale has been integrated with the app and works as expected. The Acaia scales are next.

Control logic is currently being worked on for optimal performance.



​



*Tasks for this week*



Document and complete build of second Argos prototype machine.



​



Thanks,

Ross Ainsworth

www.odysseyespresso.com





​ 



​ 









Upda​


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

Sorry Tom, lost my password and haven't logged in for a while.
I would have bought a CT2 already if not for it's very restrictive group to tray height.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Pasturemaster said:


> Sorry Tom, lost my password and haven't logged in for a while.
> I would have bought a CT2 already if not for it's very restrictive group to tray height.


 Good to see you again. I had not thought of that! Fortunately (as he breathes a sigh of relief) it's not a concern for me as I will only be using the CT2 for espresso. But I can see that it would be a deal breaker for others.

What surprises me more is that the same objection comes up with machines like the Izzo Alex/Valexia too. It's a bit of a mystery to me that machines that are designed to steam milk have such a low clearance. Go figure.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

tompoland said:


> It's a bit of a mystery to me that machines that are designed to steam milk have such a low clearance


 I agree. Hence why you see - still - some baristas pouring coffee into espresso shot glasses and then pouring into a bigger vessel afterwards. Baffling for sure!


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Ouch. 5 month delay.

You'd think tweaking the group to accept a standard 58mm PF would be better than being delayed by so much but no idea how far into manufacture those parts are. He certainly didn't mention that those parts have been ordered in his updates. Maybe he could buy a bunch of different PFs to see if they will fit. I know from experience that the Gaggia 58 PF isn't the same as an E61 58mm, etc, maybe he'll get lucky.

Curious that he went with the decent scale first, I can't imagine it balancing well on that drip tray being the shape it is and he seems to be using an acaia on his social media posts. The decent scale is much cheaper, maybe that's why.

I'd be great to get an unedited video of making a latte start to finish by a competent person. Hopefully he can get it out to reviewers soon.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

newdent said:


> Ouch. 5 month delay.
> 
> You'd think tweaking the group to accept a standard 58mm PF would be better than being delayed by so much but no idea how far into manufacture those parts are.


 from a design/production perspective and to keep costs and risk down, it actually would have been better if he had designed it to accept a standard E61 portafilter from the beginning....pure common sense to me.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> from a design/production perspective and to keep costs and risk down, it actually would have been better if he had designed it to accept a standard E61 portafilter from the beginning....pure common sense to me.


 I thought the same but didn't want to rock the boat.

I'm an engineer, like Ross and there's no way I'd be asking for money off of people until I knew everything worked and it was thoroughly tested and reviewed but people have different levels of skin thickness I suppose. I don't have the mental strength to deal with the pressure he must be under right now. I hope he gets some good luck for the rest of the project.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Being an old fart, if you had a business idea and needed funding, you made a sound business plan up and went to the bank to convince them you were worth the risk. Then the idea of VCT and Business Angels came in. Now, it seems the modern approach is to have an idea, persuade others to fund it for you so there is no risk, and if it works great, if it does not, onto the next one.

How life has changed!


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I agree. Hence why you see - still - some baristas pouring coffee into espresso shot glasses and then pouring into a bigger vessel afterwards. Baffling for sure!


 I drink mainly Americanos/long blacks/Macchaito and don't see why I would pay $3,500 aud and have to use two cups.
A CT2-ES3 hybrid could work with a bespoke stand to allow group height and the upgraded internals.
Might have to sell some more cows.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Pasturemaster said:


> I drink mainly Americanos/long blacks/Macchaito and don't see why I would pay $3,500 aud and have to use two cups.
> A CT2-ES3 hybrid could work with a bespoke stand to allow group height and the upgraded internals.
> Might have to sell some more cows.


 Ummm ... AU$4,000 landed, plus whatever PM Scomo hits me for VAT/GST on arrival probably another $400 I suspect.

(Wish I had some cows to sell 😞 )


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

tompoland said:


> Ummm ... AU$4,000 landed, plus whatever PM Scomo hits me for VAT/GST on arrival probably another $400 I suspect.
> 
> (Wish I had some cows to sell 😞 )


 I'll give you 3k for it when you finally decide you need an EVo.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

I've made a note. More likely to sell the Izzo Valexia though ... time will tell. Still rather fond of the Izzo...

Or maybe just swap you for a cow?


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## Pasturemaster (Jun 15, 2021)

tompoland said:


> I've made a note. More likely to sell the Izzo Valexia though ... time will tell. Still rather fond of the Izzo...
> 
> Or maybe just swap you for a cow?


 The last two steers we sold would have bought me a CT2 but are buying half a dozen concrete troughs.
The Studmistress is a tea drinker and has other agendas unfortunately.

Back on topic though, the price is one of the reasons I am backing Ross.
The tech is another and a reason I am prepared to wait.
Sometime next year I hope to get a duel spring/direct, temperature stable, small footprint lever machine with a pressure gauge for less than half the cost of a CT2.
I bought a new Shoei helmet last Friday for nearly half the cost of the Argos and all it does is hide my ugly bonce.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Love the design and innovation going into this little lever machine, plus the guys behind it seem really engaged in the social media side, easy to find the info if you use the right mediums


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