# Single dose grinder



## icom102

Whats the best single dose grinder?


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## MediumRoastSteam

icom102 said:


> Whats the best single dose grinder?


How much do you want to pay?


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## Dylan

icom102 said:


> Whats the best single dose grinder?


The Niche.

Or a hand grinder.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Not a Versalab or a Monolith then?


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## Diggy87

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not a Versalab or a Monolith then?


I'm assuming that @Dylan was suggesting sub £1000 grinders to the OP


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## MediumRoastSteam

Diggy87 said:


> I'm assuming that @Dylan was suggesting sub £1000 grinders to the OP


See post #2, my point exactly


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## Dylan

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Not a Versalab or a Monolith then?


Sorry yea, I actually just came back in here to edit and say "Unless you want to spend thousands"


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## MediumRoastSteam

It's such an open question that, unless the OP specify some parameters, the question is simply pointless.

Parameters I'd expect:

- manual or electric

- price bracket

- primary use (espresso, filter, etc)

- size


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## icom102

well £1000 to £1500


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## Dylan

icom102 said:


> well £1000 to £1500


Still the Niche Zero.

Your talking £2k+ I think before any of the other options come to the table.

There are a few manual grinder options as well if thats your thing. You can also modify some ex commercials for decent single dosing, but I'm not sure any of them are a sensible choice over the Niche.

edit: answering the question in the post above yours will help with answers, if your main brew method was filter then you probably dont need to spend that much at all for example.


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## coffeechap

I just picked up the best single dosing grinder within that budget from here!


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## Hasi

icom102 said:


> well £1000 to £1500


new or used?

is space an issue?


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## dev

Honne by Hedone:

https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/hedone-honne-muehle.111655/

It's basically a well aligned versalab at around 1k. Can't be beat if you don't want to spend Titus or Monolith money.


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## MildredM

dev said:


> Honne by Hedone:
> 
> https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/hedone-honne-muehle.111655/
> 
> It's basically a well aligned versalab at around 1k. Can't be beat if you don't want to spend Titus or Monolith money.


Hmmm interesting . . .










Has anyone ever bought/used one here?


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## ZappyAd

coffeechap said:


> I just picked up the best single dosing grinder within that budget from here!


Is that before or after the results of your niche comparison testing?


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## MildredM

Interesting story behind the Hedone grinder chap.


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## MediumRoastSteam

coffeechap said:


> I just picked up the best single dosing grinder within that budget from here!


Which one was that?


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## Jony

Ronsil's Ek43


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## coffeechap

Jony said:


> Ronsil's Ek43


Precisely! But you never know the Niche could be the one. Ek43s rarely come up at robs prices!


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## dev

MildredM said:


> Interesting story behind the Hedone grinder chap.


You can read more about the grinder in the Romanian forums. Basically 90% of the coffee enthusiasts have ditched higher end commercial grinders in favor of the Honne.


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## coffeechap

dev said:


> Honne by Hedone:
> 
> https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/hedone-honne-muehle.111655/
> 
> It's basically a well aligned versalab at around 1k. Can't be beat if you don't want to spend Titus or Monolith money.


Tried getting one around 6 months ago, will have another go as it is a very good price


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## MediumRoastSteam

coffeechap said:


> Precisely! But you never know the Niche could be the one. Ek43s rarely come up at robs prices!


There's one issue, for me at least... I'd need a bigger kitchen.... :-(

As at the moment, I actually keep my setup inside the cupboard. Nice and tidy, and the wife is happy.


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## ashcroc

MediumRoastSteam said:


> There's one issue, for me at least... I'd need a bigger kitchen.... :-(
> 
> As at the moment, I actually keep my setup inside the cupboard. Nice and tidy, and the wife is happy.


One on short legs may fit but you'd need to find a different spot for your water.


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## dev

coffeechap said:


> Tried getting one around 6 months ago, will have another go as it is a very good price


Pretty hard getting one from Romania since the Germans are buying them in bulk apparently.


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## rynogee

i've just ordered a kinu m47 as an intermediate step (hand gridner). coming off of a rocket fausto. keenly interested in the helor/option-o stance motor, which I think might be one of the better motorized options, but its $2k usd


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## dev

2000$ is the price of the motor accessory if you already have the grinder. And at that kind of money you can start looking at Kafatek or Lynn Weber.

If anyone's interested in the Honne, here's a link to the official distributor:

http://barshaker.ro/Hedone-Honne-Slim


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## dev

There's an active promotion for the Honne grinder:

http://barshaker.ro/Hedone-Honne-Slim


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## dev

For those interested, there's a Black Friday offer valid until 30th of November:

http://barshaker.ro/Hedone-Honne-Slim

The price is 1150 euro (1120gbp) VAT included with free europe wide shipping. ( also comes with a free dosing tool )


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## ATZ

dev said:


> For those interested, there's a Black Friday offer valid until 30th of November:
> 
> http://barshaker.ro/Hedone-Honne-Slim
> 
> The price is 1150 euro (1120gbp) VAT included with free europe wide shipping. ( also comes with a free dosing tool )


Has anyone actually tried one?


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## rob177palmer

@coffeechap?

On the surface, it's a lot of grinder for £1k


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## DavecUK

coffeechap said:


> Tried getting one around 6 months ago, will have another go as it is a very good price


Sounds like you will soon get a review of the grinder and also some real detail on the make of burrs, interior design, electronics and grind quality.....you will miss the black Friday deal by hanging around of course. I look forward to seeing some reviews.


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## dev

ATZ said:


> Has anyone actually tried one?


There's interesting information, like alignment check, on the German forum:

https://www.kaffee-netz.de/threads/hedone-honne-muehle.111655/


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## mredwardmilner

@coffeechap Did you ever (or anyone else) get their hands on one? Considering getting one but worried about what to do if it breaks or where to source new burrs.

Does anyone know more or have one?

Thanks!

EM


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## coffeechap

I did not, as I Have a versalab and this will add nothing.


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## mredwardmilner

Makes sense ?

If anyone else has any experience do reach out, thanks!


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## Nod

I have a Versalab and love it... it is a perfect home single dose grinder - not the only one on the market but the M3 or 4 does the job v v well. V easy to swap beans, negligible retention and lovely grinds...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nod

Also v small for a grinder of this quality....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> https://www.option-o.com/faq-lagom-p64
> 
> Variable RPM- check
> Low counter space- check
> Compact and looks good- check
> Doesn't sound like demons from hell when grinding - check
> Has unimodal burrs- check
> 
> The SSP burrs they are using are the one found in Mahlkonig Keyna or Mahlkonig ProM, and they deliver a nice taste. The standard burrs on the left, non coated are more Italian espresso oriented, in the style of Mazzer grinders.
> 
> SSP burrs last longer sharp than non coated burrs, so my money would be on SSP. The design reminds me of a 2050 Niche.


 Looks like it's sold out

Price 1500 USA dollars shipped from Australia ...


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> Read everything on their page:
> 
> https://www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64


 I know you say it has uni modal burrs , but I cant see any graph referencing if the particles it produces would define it as a unimodal grinder.....It could be so poorly made that it doesnt .

Shipping , where is it shipping from?

"For EU customers: We are able to collect Euro and pre-pay import duty/tax, so you won't need to worry about getting any unexpected bill when it arrives in your country"

.


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## MildredM

Is anyone seriously going to buy from a website with no registered business address, no warranty information, among other things?


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## MildredM

Zwanger said:


> Do you have any idea what helor motor stance is?


 To whom are you addressing your query?


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## ashcroc

Zwanger said:


> Do you have any idea what helor motor stance is?


Other than inferior burr size to a Kafetek Flat Max?


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## ashcroc

Zwanger said:


> Helor stance motor is sold for some time w/o any complains from buyers.
> I understand your concern but it's not the case.
> https://www.option-o.com/shop


How so exactly? Am very interested how you can possibly think a 83mm burr isn't smaller than a 98mm burr.


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## ashcroc

Zwanger said:


> What the actual Fk are you talking about?
> 
> He wrote the firma that sells the grinder is shady, but it's the same domain that is selling hellor products. You guys are funny.


You appeared to be disputing my statement of it's inferior burr size which is quite clearly preposterous. 
Not quoting the post your replying to can do that.


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## MWJB

Zwanger said:


> Has unimodal burrs- check


 No espresso burr grinds are known to be unimodal, it's one of those often repeated myths that people actually start to believe.


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## Hasi

The Mighty Chicken senses hostility!


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## MildredM

Zwanger said:


> Because quoting the recent post on many other forums gets me banned. You are free to win the monolith kafatek lottery.


 I am not surprised.

What does the second sentence mean?


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## ashcroc

There you go@MildredM your chances of getting a monolith are really low! Guess you'll just have to survive with your monolith & your monolith until you're lucky enough to get your monolith delivered!


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> What the actual Fk are you talking about?
> 
> He wrote the firma that sells the grinder is shady, but it's the same domain that is selling hellor products. You guys are funny.


 Again loose the tone man, it's not helping you make friends.


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> I am not going to start another endless conversation with you. The discussion is already made on another forum regarding ProM burrs and how they perform. If you want information you can search it, you can even find laser analysis graphs on ProM. Unimodal is a bold therm, lets use "more uniform".
> 
> Search ProM burrs and you will see what I mean.
> 
> The burr geometry they are using was used since 1950 in Zwanger and Favorite 2AT grinders. These grinders are considered to be among the best grinders for brew even now in 2019. The problem is that you cant find one in good shape.


 But these burrs are not in a pro m grinder they are in this one.so the graph doesn't apply to this grinder , it applies to that grinder and those burrs . If it's badly made the burrs themselves won't function to that level.

Seeing as no one has seen this grinder yet then it's still a fair assumption and point out raise.


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> Really? You think I do not know that? You think I am looking for friends?
> 
> I can read a damn signature. There are many people who wanted to buy one and didn't have one. Last flat sold out in minutes. But we are all offtopic.


 I don't know what you are getting out of being here. The joy of antagonism ....


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> And how do you know these are not the same burrs?


 Please Re read what I posted ....

Burrs do not make particles on their own .they function in a grinder.

The burrs may be "unimodal" in a pro m, doesnt mean they will function the same in a different grinder manufactured by someone else.


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## MWJB

Uniform & unimodal/bimodal are very different meanings. A burr grinder output at espresso level, however uniform or otherwise, are bimodal.


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## MWJB

Zwanger said:


> Can you please point at a grinder that has unimodal grind?


 Lots, at coarser grind settings (coarse filter & batch brew), doesn't need to be anything special. As you go fine the secondary peak around 50um is common to all grinders typically used for espresso.

https://www.baratza.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/VIRTUOSO-graph.pdf


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## ashcroc

Zwanger said:


> So when you grind for filter (and we are talking about espresso on this topic) you say at coarse filter grind, there are no particles in the 0-100 microns range. Zero, nada?
> So the grinder is 100% unimodal? All particles are between 800-1200 microns. Right? Did you mess up your pills?
> Unimodal grinders doesn't exist, if you take by definition what unimodal means. Because I really know that you like precise and defined therms.


You really are quite a ride little troll aren't you.


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## Hasi

As I said earlier, the Mighty Chicken senses hostility...

Other than that, I've got two letters to throw in the ring here: a used Z and a pre-owned M


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## -Mac




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## Hasi

Mazzer ZM ?


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## MWJB

Zwanger said:


> So when you grind for filter (and we are talking about espresso on this topic) you say at coarse filter grind, there are no particles in the 0-100 microns range. Zero, nada?
> 
> So the grinder is 100% unimodal? All particles are between 800-1200 microns. Right? Did you mess up your pills?
> 
> Unimodal grinders doesn't exist, if you take by definition what unimodal means. Because I really know that you like precise and defined therms. I can play the smart game all day long, I have so much time.
> 
> The virtuoso is not even an espresso grinder. Please pay more attention to the conversation.
> 
> View attachment 32002


 No, there are always particles under 100um, but they don't show up as a secondary peak at, or around, 50um.

No,the Virtuoso is not an espresso grinder, but neither is an espresso grinder when set to unimodal coarseness. All the grinds in your chart are espresso range & all bimodal. Resolution isn't that great though.


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## Fez

Hasi said:


> As I said earlier, the Mighty Chicken senses hostility...
> 
> Other than that, I've got two letters to throw in the ring here: a used Z and a pre-owned M


 Woohoo ZM!!!


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## MWJB

You said this about the lagom, "Has unimodal burrs- check"


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## Bacms

what on earth did I just read?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## coffeechap

Zwanger said:


> And how do you know these are not the same burrs? I see you don't miss a chance to quote me and attack me directly. Let me just use the ignore function on you.


 Why do you even bother coming on here with all of your hostility? These are usually helpful folk that you continually prod. There are other places that you can go.


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## Bacms

Zwanger said:


> https://dailycoffeenews.com/2019/09/02/australias-option-o-readies-launch-of-the-lagom-p64-grinder/
> 
> "I am a real boy" I believe Pinocchio said that.


64mm burrs will be given a pass by many. Also this is just a press release until people test the grinder properly this is just another grinder on the market. Comparison to the monolith at this point are just silly

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> I am not comparing it to Monolith. The monolith fanboy brought monolith into discussion.
> 
> I have no interest in buying this grinder, I already have a far more superior one.


 I am actually interested in the grinder, but will take some time to see some in the wild and performing before I draw any conclusions . The 600 dollar non refundable deposit is too much of a risk for me on a product that hasn't seen any bench tested yet.

Your tone really comes over as aggressive on here, at least to me . This could be completely unintended on your part or you might just not care.

If you want to influence people ls thoughts or make debate often what you say will be obscured by how you say it.


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## Mrboots2u

Zwanger said:


> How about you stop pointing that every few hours and let the moderators do their job if I am not respecting the forum rules. Since I started posting you are really concerned about my posts, why? Or if you don't like my way of posting, then simply add me to the ignore list. There is also a report button, top right of posts, feel free to use it.
> 
> We are different, we have different purposes on forums. Maybe you have to accept that. There are only a few people who will understand my posts, for me it's enough, the big majority will just debate for infinity my posts and I have no intention to act nice and post smileys, I just care about fast results that work for me.


 I am replying to your posts, and trying to remain civil and polite.

There is a difference between forums rules and just being civil, rules are there to guide minimum behaviour, civility for me isn't a minimum standard.

I myself often fail at the civility i seek in others, , tone and meaning on the internet can be misconstrued easily, but at the heart of my intentions is trying to help people , no matter how often i stray with some of my posts.

Anyway I am interested so am asking.

What is your purpose on the forum then ? To help ? Educate ? Improve people's coffee experience , because again tone plays an important part in how well that goes for you and how you get across what you are doing.

Re not many people not understanding, I get the sense that if someone doesn't agree with you , then you write it off as them not being able to understand your theories. Again not a great way to help or educate.

If none of the above interests you then you are just essentially shouting in an empty room about how great you are at making coffee and then sticking your fingers in your ears when someone asks you about it.


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## The Systemic Kid

Is there any scientific data on the impact on grind consistency using low - medium - high grind speed? The EK design coupled with burr size and fast grind speed means the beans are in contact with the burrs for a very short time. In my case, 18 grms in two to three seconds.


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## dsc

From the very limited experimentation I've done I'd say that slow speeds are shite for consistency. I also believe that burrs are meant to be used at a specific range of speeds and going outside of that doesn't give good results (not unusable maybe, but not optimal either).

T.


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## Hasi

I love a calculation!

Just to keep in mind: the mentioned Mahlkönigs have an auger to help with feeding beans in, horziontally. They're originally not meant to be used for single dosing, therefore augers don't only transport the charge. They also slow things down to create a more even flow with regards to a full hopper.


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## dsc

Augers + vertical burrs also eliminate the burr load which means they are much better at single dosing (vs full hopper). In Mazzers for example you need a full hopper for a steady column of beans pushing down on the burrs, in vertical burr arrangements the column is offset and doesn't act directly on the burrs (which is better from a consistency pov).

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

The EK was originally designed, back in the '80s?, as a bulk grinder - hence the 1.4 horsepower motor. It was a workhorse or should that be cart horse designed to chomp through a kilo at a time. I believe you can run it for 40mins continuous grind time - something I don't often do. It wasn't designed, as far as I know, as dose grinder. It wasn't until Matt Perger came along and used one in his WBC routine that people started taking notice.


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## Hasi

The Systemic Kid said:


> something I don't often do


 There you admitted that, occasionally, you do


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## dsc

It certainly wasn't, still it should theoretically work better at single dosing than a horizontal burr setup + bean column (btw Mazzer doesn't even hide this as they say you should always run with a full hopper).

T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Hasi said:


> There you admitted that, occasionally, you do


 Pedant


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## The Systemic Kid

Believe it or not some parts remained from those older models grinders.

That doesn't surprise me in the least?

Ek43 can grind big piles of beans (see last photo), but almost nobody uses it like that. Even in coffee shop it's barely used in brews. It took me some time to find a coffee shop using ek43 for espresso.

Following Perger's WBC shtik, quite a few 3rd wave coffee shops embraced EKs for espresso - didn't last long. Mk I coffee burrs couldn't cope with lighter roasts. Then you've got the logistics of single dosing in busy shop environments and, last but not least, EKs require more attention to barista technique - something 3Fe in Dublin pointed out when they tried an EK for espresso in their shop.


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