# Hi everyone! Coffee lover looking to step up my home setup and skills



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

Just thought I'd leave a 'hello' intro message to introduce myself to the forum! I've been lurking for the past week and thought it would be great to get involved to learn more about equipment and techniques, and later be able to give back through my own growing experience, too. 🙂

Born and bred in Italy, so grew up with espressos and cappuccinos, and worked in many bars/restaurants/clubs where I've had to learn to make a good coffee, so while perhaps a bit rusty I'm not intimidated by the technique side of things, rather by the cost of decent equipment..!

Been using a very simple, semi automatic (pressurised double wall basket, pennarello steam wand) domestic machine in the past year or so (a De Longhi Micalite I'd bought for my girlfriend a few years back, we have since moved in together). While it won't pull a top espresso/milk drink by any stretch it's been nice to have a quick home made drink in the morning/after lunch which to be fair surpasses or at least equals that of many non specialist cafes.

It's recently given up the ghost, and while fixing it could be possible (I believe there have been seal issues which have eventually led the pump to overwork and go pop) I'm seriously considering this as an opportunity to step up a little to something which could give me better coffees, hence me being here to delve a little deeper and see how to best commit to the next step!


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@ales benvenuto, fai bene ad aver paura dei costi 😁

I'm sure that depending on your budget and on your needs (eg how many coffees, which kind) and wants (eg high or low faff, specific features) somebody will be able to suggest the best option. Most of the times a second hand Gaggia Classic is suggested, but if you're still in Italy they might be hard to find (or at least I couldn't find many if any of them on websites like subito.it, ebay.it, etc). A bit ironic that Gaggia Classics are not that common in Italy..

You'll also be asked about your grinder, which for espresso-based drinks is paramount. Difficult to suggest without knowing your budget!


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

Haha thank you @Baffo!

Should have mentioned, while Italian born I've been living in London for over a decade! I remember my gran having a Gaggia machine with rocker switches much like the classic back in the 90s, not sure how far back in time the Classic goes but might well have been one!

Still not got a grinder but that's something I will no doubt look into in the near future. Because of budget, the idea would probably be biting the bullet for the Classic or something along those lines and later upgrade to VST basket+freshly ground coffee. While it wouldn't be ideal to use a Classic with its pressurised basket it still won't be a step back for me from my current setup, but it will be good securing a machine that will allow me to expand my horizons as and when I want/can, or at least that's my thinking. Were I to go for something like the Carezza I'd need to upgrade to a new machine to do that, so might as well set myself up now I think.

I've expanded on my thought a little further in this post:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57860-advice-on-best-2nd-hand-espresso-machine-choices-around-%C2%A3200/?do=embed&comment=816734&embedComment=816734&embedDo=findComment


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@ales I kinda figured you hadn't been living in Italy (you don't "sound" Italian..) for a while but didn't want to assume.. Having read your post, a Classic might be a good choice - but it might be painful to steam for two cappuccinos/lattes.

A completely different - yet very similar - machine would be the Sage Bambino. It might well be not as good for espresso (especially vs a modded Gaggia), and there might be concerns on durability, however:

- it seemingly steams nicely

- it is ready to make coffee in a handful of seconds, unlike the Gaggia (especially your partner might not be that much into the idea of waiting several minutes for the boilers & group head to get to temp on the Gaggia. However, if you follow a specific routine time-wise, then you can have the Gaggia on a smart plug so that it is already warm when you need it so this may be moot-ish).

Just throwing this out there. For you the Classic is the best machine, but the Bambino might avoid a costly divorce.


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

Thanks once again for the input @Baffo, it's very much appreciated and all great info to take into consideration.

Compared to our current routine the only main difference would be having to turn the machine on with a little more advance (current machine would take a minute or so, Gaggia Classics seem to take anything between 3/4 mins to the first light on to 15 if you want to wait for the temp to stabilise), since the steam wand on light on our machine would often go off mid frothing anyway..!

It's great to be hearing more details though as it certainly already feels like I'd be making a better informed choice which I'm really grateful for 🙂 It does seem like there's a balance to be struck, but the compromises that the Classic would require us to make would be worth the candle in terms of getting a reliable, good quality machine that can both give a pretty straightforward, nice espresso and allow me to tinker around since I am a natural born faffer and wouldn't mind getting stuck in for servicing/modding at a later date!


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

the gaggia classic is older than time itself so you gran probably did have one,

in terms of basket, go ims there more forgiving than the vst counterparts

budget well for the grinder, its the most important part,


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

ales said:


> Thanks once again for the input @Baffo, it's very much appreciated and all great info to take into consideration.
> 
> Compared to our current routine the only main difference would be having to turn the machine on with a little more advance (current machine would take a minute or so, Gaggia Classics seem to take anything between 3/4 mins to the first light on to 15 if you want to wait for the temp to stabilise), since the steam wand on light on our machine would often go off mid frothing anyway..!
> 
> It's great to be hearing more details though as it certainly already feels like I'd be making a better informed choice which I'm really grateful for 🙂 It does seem like there's a balance to be struck, but the compromises that the Classic would require us to make would be worth the candle in terms of getting a reliable, good quality machine that can both give a pretty straightforward, nice espresso and allow me to tinker around since I am a natural born faffer and wouldn't mind getting stuck in for servicing/modding at a later date!


 Yes, the Gaggia can be an "endgame" machine if properly modded, especially in a small household. Perhaps the only limitations could come when exploring funky beans (which seemingly can be better extracted by using fancier features such as customisable pre-infusion, flow and pressure profiling, in higher range machines), but I'm only speaking out of what I've read, rather than direct experience. A PID mod would already go a long way in making the Gaggia a great machine.

If you're a natural born faffer then you might not mind a hand grinder - I am a natural born lazy a**e, so I bought one and grew tired of it straight away. It's not the grinding in itself. What they don't tell you when you buy a hand grinder is that dialling in might be a pain. First you have to struggle with finding the right setting. And once you find it, you realise that over time the setting might not yield the desired results anymore as beans age - at least this is what happened to me. Whilst this would not be different with electric grinders, the whole process can be painful (literally).


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

i had good results hand grinding with a 1zpresso jx pro, but anything under medium roast is quite hard to grind


----------



## Deegee (Apr 5, 2020)

First hi and welcome @ales! If you've got the Classic in mind and don't mind getting involved with some modifications I'd look at using a smart plug to turn it on and warm up before you need it, then fitting a PID kit to it, I know from experience it significantly improves the steaming ability.

All that said, it all depends on budget, and if you've got the funds available there's a couple of machines currently in the For Sale section on here, one a Vibiemme and the other an Isomac iirc, either of those would solve any issues with steaming milk you might have had, and I think the Vibiemme is in N London as well.....


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

@Cuprajake Thanks for the tips, I see IMS baskets are widely available and pretty cheap (more so than VST), which is good! I guess the thing with lower roasts is that the beans themselves aren't quite as dry and 'brittle' for wanting of better words and therefore tougher to grind down?

@Baffo Yeah, it definitely looks like I'm going to do a fair bit of delving into the whole grinding/grinders topic to get my head round it and understand what I want/need!

@Deegee Smart plug, as also mentioned by Baffo, is a good idea and would definitely consider it! The machine you mention from the FS section sure do look really good, but way over budget for what I'm looking to spend, which is more in the 200/250 region for the machine.

Ultimately I'm seeing the Classic as a way of being able to keep my routine pretty much identical to the current one to begin with (mostly pre ground and often pressurised basket) while slowly starting to tackle hand ground and non pressurised pulls in time. I accept it means not making the most of it for the time being, but it means we will be able to get further at our own pace and as/when we do get hold of a good grinder/upgrade mods etc. The fact it's hugely popular and there are countless videos of how too, maintenance, spare parts etc is another huge pro, as we were disappointed to see our current machine go after only about 3 years of no more than 2 double brews a day and the prospect of a long term machine we're unlikely to outgrow for a price all in all fairly similar to those of basic semi autos (or at least within around £100, which as a one off doesn't seem like much) is very attractive. Very nice to hear feedback which supports these considerations and informs it further.

Of course feel free to keep it going, or try and dissuade me if you think I should be doing better! I guess it's also worth saying that while I'm after a good coffee, I'm not in search of an absolute holy grail and could never justify investing £500 in a machine, so that leaves me in this lower price bracket within which I'm trying to strike a balance which, happily, seems possible.


----------



## Deegee (Apr 5, 2020)

No I'm not trying to change your mind, just putting some options out there, for your budget either the Classic or the Rancilio Sylvia are probably the best bet, both as they're easily repairable and upgradable as and when funds become available, plus they can both use a pressurised basket whilst you save and look around for a grinder to match.

I should probably also point out that I've got a Classic myself, which coupled with a Eureka Specialita can make a very good coffee, easily comparable to anything I've had in Italy, your Nonna had it right I think. 😉


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

Absolutely @Deegee, very grateful for your input on the matter, and with the first hand experience with the Classic! Rancilio Silvia is another one I've looked at, though they seem to be a bit more expensive compared to the Gaggia. I will look my eyes peeled for both though knowing that, going from the consensus online, they both can offer a similarly capable and, to a degree, expandable platform to hopefully reply on for years to come 🙂


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

ales said:


> @CuprajakeI guess it's also worth saying that while I'm after a good coffee, I'm not in search of an absolute holy grail and could never justify investing £500 in a machine


 I hereby am disqualifying myself from giving you advice. I was in a similar position and then managed to talked my way into far more expensive stuff, so I'm bad at being rational.


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

@Baffo I saw you're also involved on the cycling thread, add to that I enjoy playing guitar and other instruments and you can see how it could be one money pit too many 😂


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)

@ales haha yes I've seen your beautiful bike. I'd thoroughly suggest you don't read too much about coffee otherwise you might end up wanting £££ features on your machine. Just focus on the For Sale section 🤣


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

yeah theres many a thread on here, for that money id be buying a mignon manuale £240 and a gaggia with pid £300 ish


----------



## Al Grandé (Nov 26, 2020)

Baffo said:


> I was in a similar position and then managed to talked my way into far more expensive stuff, so I'm bad at being rational.


 Think we all have...

this site should come with a "WARNING !!"


----------



## ales (Feb 10, 2021)

Or maybe we're just too rational to ignore the clear benefits that a well thought out investment would bring to our everyday lives, therefore making it definitely worth it?! 🤔😂


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

i always say spending on anything can be justified if its used,

i play(played) inline and ice hockey- my legpads alone cost a grand, its alot - but i played twice a week and have played for over 25yrs, same goes for coffee, dropping £1500 on a machine to make one single drink is alot, however if your stuck at home day in day out and its making 4 to 6 a day in my eyes its well worth it.

like anyone were subject to budget, but try to buy once and buy right. - saving grace atm is, coffee is a hot topic and stuff in the sed market is flying out, at silly prices in some cases


----------



## Bobbrown (Sep 16, 2020)

ales said:


> ...and could never justify investing £500 in a machine...


 Lol, I remember thinking that.


----------



## Baffo (Jan 23, 2021)




----------

