# Levelling tool for Barista Express/53mm



## kwadsncoffee

Hi,

does anyone know where I could get a 53mm levelling tool for the barista express. I have seen that Motta sell one but it is out of stock everywhere in the UK. I don't really want to spend over £40 (I'm a student).

Apologies if this has been posted before.

Tim


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## jlarkin

I think it's in stock here - I got one from them the other week - https://www.shopcoffee.co.uk/product/barista-essentials/coffee-tampers-tamping-mats/motta-coffee-leveling-tool/


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## kwadsncoffee

That was fast!

Does that company sell a 53mm levelling too? The one in the link states it is 58mm?


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## jlarkin

Fast but unhelpful in the end!

I bought looking for a 53mm one (and then just put in the link from my account here). Though you're right it all says 58mm today. The one I got is a 58mm one (d'oh, only just looked at properly now you said that!). I don't know if I was just being dumb of if they'd made a mistake at the time. Sorry I guess they don't currently have a 53mm one, as it's not listed.


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## Les996

jlarkin said:


> Fast but unhelpful in the end!
> 
> I bought looking for a 53mm one (and then just put in the link from my account here). Though you're right it all says 58mm today. The one I got is a 58mm one (d'oh, only just looked at properly now you said that!). I don't know if I was just being dumb of if they'd made a mistake at the time. Sorry I guess they don't currently have a 53mm one, as it's not listed.


As far as I can remember they did have a 53mm as it was just after I bought a 58 and had machined down. Ended up costing more than the Motta lol


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## kwadsncoffee

No worries. I'm not sure why they are all out of stock at the minute. Maybe Motta are discontinuing them.


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## ashcroc

jlarkin said:


> Fast but unhelpful in the end!
> 
> I bought looking for a 53mm one (and then just put in the link from my account here). Though you're right it all says 58mm today. The one I got is a 58mm one (d'oh, only just looked at properly now you said that!). I don't know if I was just being dumb of if they'd made a mistake at the time. Sorry I guess they don't currently have a 53mm one, as it's not listed.


Find someone with a lathe & get it turn3d down to fit. Joey did some back in his not so busy days.


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## kwadsncoffee

That's not a bad idea. Would have to find someone though. Very annoying as I got rid of my old lathe not too long ago.


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## haszek

I bought one from Amazon.de, although it cost £40 (delivered) and delivery is 1 week


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## kwadsncoffee

I will have a look to see if this is still possible.


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## Komatoes

There are some on ebay from Germany for about £35 delivered


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## kwadsncoffee

Although they do appear to be delivered for £35 when selected, the delivery price changes to £34 (not including product)!


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## kwadsncoffee

Must have been an error on the eBay site. Managed to get it on the app for £35. Thanks for everyone's help!


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## Iris

bella barista sell them, I cant access their website atm it appears to be down. I am sure its def less than £40 including postage.


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## Komatoes

Iris said:



> bella barista sell them, I cant access their website atm it appears to be down. I am sure its def less than £40 including postage.


They were out of stock earlier.


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## kwadsncoffee

They do sell them but they too are out of stock.


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## THR_Crema

I'd been looking for ages and kept seeing them out of stock or a rather high price tag. Ended up buying one from a German eBay account paid £27 & £7 postage - arrived in a few days and love it. It's much heavy than I thought it would've been and love each one has its own serial number.

Hopefully this link is allowed:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F273405184731


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## RufusA

FWIW Bella Barista look like they have them back in stock again - £29.99 + £3.11 delivery.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/brands/motta-53mm-coffee-leveling-tool.html

Is this worth getting? Will it be a noticeable improvement over "bouncing" the portafilter on a rubber mat to level, before tamping?


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## MWJB

RufusA said:


> Is this worth getting? Will it be a noticeable improvement over "bouncing" the portafilter on a rubber mat to level, before tamping?


 You'll still want to tap the pf on the mat to settle the dose & level it off some with side taps (with heel of the hand) before using the grooming tool.

You may not need to tamp with a tamper after using the grooming tool if set to the right depth.


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## kwadsncoffee

Update:

The leveling tool that I ordered from a German ebay seller finally arrived in the week. Today i have received a letter of apology from the seller explaining the delay which what down to a manufacturing issue and they had to replace their entire stock of the levelers. This could be the reason why it was so hard to obtain one last month.

Thanks for everyone's help.


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## kwadsncoffee

Having used the distribution tool for a while now, I have one question. Has anyone found that the distribution tool doesn't adjust low enough? I appear to have mine set to the lowest setting and it is deeper than the 'razor' dosing tool that comes with the barista express. I was wondering if anyone else has had this as I can't find anything about it online.

Tim


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## MWJB

kwadsncoffee said:


> Having used the distribution tool for a while now, I have one question. Has anyone found that the distribution tool doesn't adjust low enough? I appear to have mine set to the lowest setting and it is deeper than the 'razor' dosing tool that comes with the barista express. I was wondering if anyone else has had this as I can't find anything about it online.
> 
> Tim


 What is the depth?

The Razor seems to be about 6mm deep, leaving 20mm basket depth for 18g of coffee. So if your tool leaves 8mm proud, try 16g (you might fit 17g) in the basket?


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## kwadsncoffee

MWJB said:


> What is the depth?
> 
> The Razor seems to be about 6mm deep, leaving 20mm basket depth for 18g of coffee. So if your tool leaves 8mm proud, try 16g (you might fit 17g) in the basket?


 I will measure tomorrow but I'm currently getting 19g in probably 3mm deeper than the razor. The results are good but I'm a bit of a perfectionist so don't know if it could be better.


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## MWJB

kwadsncoffee said:


> I will measure tomorrow but I'm currently getting 19g in probably 3mm deeper than the razor. The results are good but I'm a bit of a perfectionist so don't know if it could be better.


 If it's not broke, does it need fixing?


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## kwadsncoffee

MWJB said:


> If it's not broke, does it need fixing?


 Very true. But I have never been on any barista courses or anything like that so I don't have any definitive idea of what the perfect espresso should look like and taste like so I always assume something can improve it.


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## MWJB

kwadsncoffee said:


> Very true. But I have never been on any barista courses or anything like that so I don't have any definitive idea of what the perfect espresso should look like and taste like so I always assume something can improve it.


 Sure, it's good to seek constant improvement, but you're primarily making a drink to enjoy, if it is enjoyable then that's a good basis to work from & refer to.

"Perfect espresso" is probably too individual a concept to have any universal meaning. Aiming for a good strike rate of enjoyable shots, with as little wastage as you can get away with, is perhaps a more realistic aim. Each to their own, but if it tastes good to me, I couldn't really care less what it looks like...if it looks good, that's great. But, if you're sabotaging the taste to get picture/video perfect pours, that makes no sense to me.


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## kwadsncoffee

MWJB said:


> Sure, it's good to seek constant improvement, but you're primarily making a drink to enjoy, if it is enjoyable then that's a good basis to work from & refer to.
> 
> "Perfect espresso" is probably too individual a concept to have any universal meaning. Aiming for a good strike rate of enjoyable shots, with as little wastage as you can get away with, is perhaps a more realistic aim. Each to their own, but if it tastes good to me, I couldn't really care less what it looks like...if it looks good, that's great. But, if you're sabotaging the taste to get picture/video perfect pours, that makes no sense to me.


 Yes I agree with what you are saying. Maybe I should just relax the 'hunting for improvement' and enjoy the coffee more. But thanks for your advice


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## jameswatson

I bought one from Amazon and since I am a prime member, I received this within 2 days and it cost me around 40. I believe you should have a thorough look on Amazon.


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## kwadsncoffee

jameswatson said:


> I bought one from Amazon and since I am a prime member, I received this within 2 days and it cost me around 40. I believe you should have a thorough look on Amazon.


 I have received mine now thank you.


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## Yas90

Old thread so apologies, but a big thanks to the contributors.

Bought the motta recently and its transformed the coffee extraction and subsequent taste on my barista express


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## THR_Crema

Yas90 said:


> Old thread so apologies, but a big thanks to the contributors.
> 
> Bought the motta recently and its transformed the coffee extraction and subsequent taste on my barista express


 Great news and glad it's transformed things for you!


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## Yas90

Quick tip for anyone else who has recently bought it, I found for my dose (18g) setting the Motta to the minimum length (screw adjustment) was perfect


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## 24774

Hi there, new to forum. Can I ask where you got your Motta 53mm distribution tool? I can't find them, in fact i can't find any 53mm distribution tools!

Thanks for any advice.

Dan.


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## 24774

Yas90 said:


> Old thread so apologies, but a big thanks to the contributors.
> 
> Bought the motta recently and its transformed the coffee extraction and subsequent taste on my barista express


 Hi there, new to forum. Can I ask where you got your Motta 53mm distribution tool? I can't find them, in fact i can't find any 53mm distribution tools!

Thanks for any advice.

Dan.


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> Hi there, new to forum. Can I ask where you got your Motta 53mm distribution tool? I can't find them, in fact i can't find any 53mm distribution tools!
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> Dan.


 https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-coffee-leveling-tool.html out of stock at the minute but they generally get them in pretty quick.


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## 24774

Dalerst said:


> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/motta-53mm-coffee-leveling-tool.html out of stock at the minute but they generally get them in pretty quick.


 Oh brilliant thank you! I bought a Motta tamper last night so this will go with that nicely 

Do you reckon it's better than the Scarlett one (I found that last night, also sold out)?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Espresso-Distributor-»Special-Extraction-Machines/dp/B079Y1MTNJ/ref=pd_sbs_79_5/261-2495951-8863140?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B079Y5DYDR&pd_rd_r=b4e35426-e08a-49b3-bc47-28d9869136b9&pd_rd_w=BMIeO&pd_rd_wg=f1WwY&pf_rd_p=96cae456-8d7a-4bc1-91c7-9b20b4dfd7c9&pf_rd_r=C00HH5K4T2KRCGB2MBR1&refRID=C00HH5K4T2KRCGB2MBR1&th=1

Very new to all this, can't see how much difference each model would make. It just makes a flat surface so there's equal coffee on all sides when you tamp it down right?


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> Oh brilliant thank you! I bought a Motta tamper last night so this will go with that nicely
> 
> Do you reckon it's better than the Scarlett one (I found that last night, also sold out)?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Espresso-Distributor-»Special-Extraction-Machines/dp/B079Y1MTNJ/ref=pd_sbs_79_5/261-2495951-8863140?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B079Y5DYDR&pd_rd_r=b4e35426-e08a-49b3-bc47-28d9869136b9&pd_rd_w=BMIeO&pd_rd_wg=f1WwY&pf_rd_p=96cae456-8d7a-4bc1-91c7-9b20b4dfd7c9&pf_rd_r=C00HH5K4T2KRCGB2MBR1&refRID=C00HH5K4T2KRCGB2MBR1&th=1
> 
> Very new to all this, can't see how much difference each model would make. It just makes a flat surface so there's equal coffee on all sides when you tamp it down right?


 I settled with the motta as it was the only 53mm one I could find at the time, I don't think there will be much between them, as you say its to spread the coffee and give you an even surface to extract the shot.

I have found that you only need to use a very little tamp with the motta one after it been levelled, you will get a much more consistent extraction than trying to tamp on its own.


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## 24774

Dalerst said:


> I settled with the motta as it was the only 53mm one I could find at the time, I don't think there will be much between them, as you say its to spread the coffee and give you an even surface to extract the shot.
> 
> I have found that you only need to use a very little tamp with the motta one after it been levelled, you will get a much more consistent extraction than trying to tamp on its own.


 Great, thanks for the advice and the link. This forum is a great resource, so much information here.


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## Yas90

CocoLoco said:


> Hi there, new to forum. Can I ask where you got your Motta 53mm distribution tool? I can't find them, in fact i can't find any 53mm distribution tools!
> 
> Thanks for any advice.
> 
> Dan.


 Hey buddy, sorry for the delayed response

pianacaffã ¨ Mm 53 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077VV5RNH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_w5IzEbJ4FQ108

Bought mine on 1/3/20


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## 24774

Yas90 said:


> Hey buddy, sorry for the delayed response
> 
> pianacaffã ¨ Mm 53 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077VV5RNH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_w5IzEbJ4FQ108
> 
> Bought mine on 1/3/20


 Thanks for reply. Both you and Dalerst went for the Motta one so I'll do like-wise. I'll monitor both your links and get it as soon as it comes back in stock.


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## Dale Cooper

I found this one:

https://www.wish.com/product/5e44cfb1ddbcbe2efcb3e7b7?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=GB&_force_currency_code=GBP&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=5e44cfb1ddbcbe2efcb3e7b7&ad_cc=GB&ad_curr=GBP&ad_price=13.00&campaign_id=6493229882&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy6T1BRDXARIsAIqCTXqxja_Nkx6HbC5wUInVMjiw0VeuQZAp4g8V9p4bUxluE8TJcAK0Cl4aAs0FEALw_wcB&share=web

It's £13 - a bargain or an indication of quality? The 'blades' look flatter and more curved but, having never used a leveller I'm not sure if this is just a style or a design flaw. I'd like to think for such a simple task it's not that important but I may be being swayed by the price


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## facboy

well the one review it has says it doesn't fit the Sage machines...is that what you're planning to use it with?


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## Harvey

Has anyone had an experience using the Crema Coffee Products version of this tool?

I'm either looking to get the motta version (when in stock) as I have the Motta tamper, or this one (also when in stock).

https://www.cremacoffeepro.com/collections/frontpage/products/53mm-tamper-distributor-combo

I was maybe thinking of picking up a bottomless portafilter from Crema at some point.


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## Dale Cooper

facboy said:


> well the one review it has says it doesn't fit the Sage machines...is that what you're planning to use it with?


 The bad review is because they bought the wrong one! There is a 53mm version (which I'm entertaining for a sage dtp)


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## 24774

Dale Cooper said:


> I found this one:
> 
> https://www.wish.com/product/5e44cfb1ddbcbe2efcb3e7b7?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=GB&_force_currency_code=GBP&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=5e44cfb1ddbcbe2efcb3e7b7&ad_cc=GB&ad_curr=GBP&ad_price=13.00&campaign_id=6493229882&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy6T1BRDXARIsAIqCTXqxja_Nkx6HbC5wUInVMjiw0VeuQZAp4g8V9p4bUxluE8TJcAK0Cl4aAs0FEALw_wcB&share=web
> 
> It's £13 - a bargain or an indication of quality? The 'blades' look flatter and more curved but, having never used a leveller I'm not sure if this is just a style or a design flaw. I'd like to think for such a simple task it's not that important but I may be being swayed by the price


 Ooh good find. If that does 2/3mm I may get that. Probably worth a punt anyway for £13.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Hi all,

I recently got the Motta tool and even when it is on the lowest setting it is deeper than the razer tool, as stated in the thread earlier on, noticed that when I do my usual 18g of coffee in the Barista Pro that when using the Motta on the lowest setting it was choking my shot. Wonder if it is compressing the grounds too much.


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## 24774

Harvey said:


> Has anyone had an experience using the Crema Coffee Products version of this tool?
> 
> I'm either looking to get the motta version (when in stock) as I have the Motta tamper, or this one (also when in stock).
> 
> https://www.cremacoffeepro.com/collections/frontpage/products/53mm-tamper-distributor-combo
> 
> I was maybe thinking of picking up a bottomless portafilter from Crema at some point.


 I spoke to the president of CremaCoffeePro and he said the distribution tool has a minimum setting of 6mm. That's deeper than the razor. He says they use it with 19g coffee all the time but I can not see how that is possible without over compaction. .


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## 24774

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I recently got the Motta tool and even when it is on the lowest setting it is deeper than the razer tool, as stated in the thread earlier on, noticed that when I do my usual 18g of coffee in the Barista Pro that when using the Motta on the lowest setting it was choking my shot. Wonder if it is compressing the grounds too much.


 I just sold mine as I had the same issue. I sold it to a forum member, who like other forum members, is getting on well with it.

I would love to see someone use it in front of me. I just cannot understand how anyone can use a tool with a depth bigger than maybe 4mm. 3mm, even 2mm would be great.


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## Caffeinated_fiend

CocoLoco said:


> I just sold mine as I had the same issue. I sold it to a forum member, who like other forum members, is getting on well with it.
> 
> I would love to see someone use it in front of me. I just cannot understand how anyone can use a tool with a depth bigger than maybe 4mm. 3mm, even 2mm would be great.


 They is always the push palm tamper but that costs a bomb, I have ordered a 53mm standard style tamper to replace the one that comes with the machine. I find it hard to use that it's a little small for my hand. Shame it's so hard to get hold of this stuff over here.


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## Ashmxo

I also have this tool bottomed out to its lowest setting and it's nowhere near what the razor advises. My shots seem good at the moment (1 month noob) I guess I'll stick with it.


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## facboy

Hum, I have the Motta and I think it's probably about 8mm at minimum depth! I use mine all the time with 18g, works fine. It really isn't going to be able to compress the grounds any more than a proper tamp will, unless you're 'tamping' with a featherlight touch (ie not tamping). Personally I never found the razor tool very useful...pre-tamp it's no good as a distribution tool as it just pushes all the grounds over the edge of the basket, and post-tamp it was never even close to touching the puck.

Perhaps if the machine is choking when the puck is properly tamped the grind is too fine?


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## 24774

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> They is always the push palm tamper but that costs a bomb, I have ordered a 53mm standard style tamper to replace the one that comes with the machine. I find it hard to use that it's a little small for my hand. Shame it's so hard to get hold of this stuff over here.


 That push/palm tamper distributor one from the US? The Crema one? That's 6mm minimum. Slightly better but still not enough IMO.

The 53mm tamper, if it's the Motta one, that's the one I have too. Made a huge difference to my shot.


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## 24774

facboy said:


> Hum, I have the Motta and I think it's probably about 8mm at minimum depth! I use mine all the time with 18g, works fine. It really isn't going to be able to compress the grounds any more than a proper tamp will, unless you're 'tamping' with a featherlight touch (ie not tamping). Personally I never found the razor tool very useful...pre-tamp it's no good as a distribution tool as it just pushes all the grounds over the edge of the basket, and post-tamp it was never even close to touching the puck.
> 
> Perhaps if the machine is choking when the puck is properly tamped the grind is too fine?


 We have very different experiences. With 18g I could just about get the tool to work. With 19g I had to pick whole thing up and crush it in a vice like grip to get the tool to sit on the pf and spin. This effect tamped so hard it just choked the machine. With no tool, just a nice tamp, it's a nice flow. I do want the distribution tool to avoid channelling though so I'm not giving up yet.

You don't use the Razor pre-tamp, that's not what it's for, but post-tamp using just the Motta tamper, I'm nicely at Razor depth. Strange we have such different experiences with the same machine!


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## Caffeinated_fiend

Right so with the kids in bed I thought I would give the Motta a try, I have it on the tightest possible setting and it is about 1mm lower than the razer tool.

Using Raves Italian job on the barista pro, without the Motta. Dosing funnel into the portafilter and then distributed evenly with my finger before tamping

18g in 39.5g out in 32 seconds on grind level 12

Using the Motta, dosing funnel into the portafilter then distributed with my finger until distributed, then Motta pressed down and rotated. No further tamp

18g in and drips out as it choked at grind 12

18g in 39.7g out in 27 seconds at grind level 16

18g in 39.1 out in 30 seconds at grind level 16

Video of the second shot I pulled using the Motta;

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://twitter.com/YorkshireLion_/status/1257781521827708930

I didn't try the shot but at least it is somewhat dialled in so I can tomorrow. Would be better with a bean that I have had good results with but I only have new stuff.

Is it better to rest the Motta on top and then rotate, or put the Motta on, push down until it is level on the portafilter and then rotate? You are sort of tamping on that initial push down before rotating the tool.


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## Dalerst

Caffeinated_fiend said:


> Is it better to rest the Motta on top and then rotate, or put the Motta on, push down until it is level on the portafilter and then rotate? You are sort of tamping on that initial push down before rotating the tool


 I always put the motta on and rotate so its distributes at the same time as you are effectively tamping.

I never find the need to tamp after using the motta.

Your shot looks pretty good to me in the video, give it a taste and if you like it thats all that matters.


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## facboy

CocoLoco said:


> We have very different experiences. With 18g I could just about get the tool to work. With 19g I had to pick whole thing up and crush it in a vice like grip to get the tool to sit on the pf and spin. This effect tamped so hard it just choked the machine. With no tool, just a nice tamp, it's a nice flow. I do want the distribution tool to avoid channelling though so I'm not giving up yet.
> 
> You don't use the Razor pre-tamp, that's not what it's for, but post-tamp using just the Motta tamper, I'm nicely at Razor depth. Strange we have such different experiences with the same machine!


 hmm...actually it's not exactly the same machine, I have a Bambino Plus. Same basket though. I rotate to distribute before pushing down though, this will get it to within 1mm (or a bit less) above the basket rim. Then I push down while rotating (not very hard) so that it sits flush with the basket.

I am undecided whether tamping after this is better...sometimes I think yes, sometimes I think no. Which probably means it's not making much difference one way or the other, at least to me.


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## 24774

@Caffeinated_fiend Nice research, thanks. Having to go to 16 to get it to work, can't say I thought of that. Please let us know how it tastes if you get a chance.


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## 24774

facboy said:


> hmm...actually it's not exactly the same machine, I have a Bambino Plus. Same basket though. I rotate to distribute before pushing down though, this will get it to within 1mm (or a bit less) above the basket rim. Then I push down while rotating (not very hard) so that it sits flush with the basket.
> 
> I am undecided whether tamping after this is better...sometimes I think yes, sometimes I think no. Which probably means it's not making much difference one way or the other, at least to me.


 My portafilter is always pretty much full after I've distributed with finger. I've been using Rave and they all like a 19g (or circa 19g) dosing. I had to do a 6/7mm tamp to get it to sit on pf and spin. Interesting @Caffeinated_fiend went much coarser and got it to sit on pf without crushing it, I didn't think of doing that. It means bigger grounds, but more tightly packed.

Hoons Coffee doesn't tamp after using the tool but I've seen some people that do. Seems opinion is divided on whether it's necessary.


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> I've been using Rave and they all like a 19g (or circa 19g


 Which Rave are you using? Im currently on one of there beans and only dosing 17.5g with it on gring 9.


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## facboy

CocoLoco said:


> My portafilter is always pretty much full after I've distributed with finger. I've been using Rave and they all like a 19g (or circa 19g) dosing. I had to do a 6/7mm tamp to get it to sit on pf and spin. Interesting @Caffeinated_fiend went much coarser and got it to sit on pf without crushing it, I didn't think of doing that. It means bigger grounds, but more tightly packed.
> 
> Hoons Coffee doesn't tamp after using the tool but I've seen some people that do. Seems opinion is divided on whether it's necessary.


 Mine would be full too if I used my finger, basically straight off the grinder there's usually a little indent all around the grounds because of the dosing funnel, and the grounds will sit proud of the basket. I tap with my finger until the edges are more or less level with the top of the basket, then I put the Motta on top and rotate it just using its own weight, which compresses the grounds and gives me a more or less flat puck surface. To clarify what I wrote above, this usually leaves the 'handle' of the Motta sitting 1mm above the basket (not the top of the puck), then I compress the Motta down so that the handle sits on top of the basket.


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## 24774

facboy said:


> Mine would be full too if I used my finger, basically straight off the grinder there's usually a little indent all around the grounds because of the dosing funnel, and the grounds will sit proud of the basket. I tap with my finger until the edges are more or less level with the top of the basket, then I put the Motta on top and rotate it just using its own weight, which compresses the grounds and gives me a more or less flat puck surface. To clarify what I wrote above, this usually leaves the 'handle' of the Motta sitting 1mm above the basket (not the top of the puck), then I compress the Motta down so that the handle sits on top of the basket.


 That's exactly how mine is up until I use the tool. There's just nowhere for my grounds to go so I ended up crushing them down. Light pressure/weight of tool wasn't enough. If I was using 17.5g like Dalerst it would be fine I reckon, but it never occurred to me to change amount or grind to accommodate the tool. Kind of wish I had now.


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## 24774

Dalerst said:


> Which Rave are you using? Im currently on one of there beans and only dosing 17.5g with it on gring 9.


 All the main ones - Signature, Fudge, Chatswood, Italian Job, Mocha something. They all took about 19g on grind 3. I'll put it up to 9 and use 17.5g tomorrow and see what happens. I reckon that tool would have worked with 17.5g. It just can't with 19g.


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> All the main ones - Signature, Fudge, Chatswood, Italian Job, Mocha something. They all took about 19g on grind 3. I'll put it up to 9 and use 17.5g tomorrow and see what happens. I reckon that tool would have worked with 17.5g. It just can't with 19g.


 Im going to try yours this morning, i have a feeling that grind and and quantity it will throttle my machine and just drip out. Will be interesting to see as we both have pretty much the same machine and grinder.


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## 24774

Dalerst said:


> Im going to try yours this morning, i have a feeling that grind and and quantity it will throttle my machine and just drip out. Will be interesting to see as we both have pretty much the same machine and grinder.


 So just having a coffee using your settings. I'm using Rave Chatswood. As I thought it came out too fast, but it's not as bad as thought, I'm drinking it now. I've made some where I've just chucked them it was so bad!

17.5g on grind 9 gave me a 17 second shot. Little crema, but a bit. There wasn't enough pressure, it made it to about halfway to the grey money zone. Taste is actually decent, not sour or bitter at all. The problem is it's 'thin', there's no depth to the taste. I do quite like it though. I think the tool would work as the grounds were below the rim of the pf, but they would still need heavy tamping with the tool to get it to sit on the rim I think. Although Facboy manages it without heavy pressure so I'm at a loss there.


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## Dalerst

CocoLoco said:


> So just having a coffee using your settings. I'm using Rave Chatswood. As I thought it came out too fast, but it's not as bad as thought, I'm drinking it now. I've made some where I've just chucked them it was so bad!
> 
> 17.5g on grind 9 gave me a 17 second shot. Little crema, but a bit. There wasn't enough pressure, it made it to about halfway to the grey money zone. Taste is actually decent, not sour or bitter at all. The problem is it's 'thin', there's no depth to the taste. I do quite like it though. I think the tool would work as the grounds were below the rim of the pf, but they would still need heavy tamping with the tool to get it to sit on the rim I think. Although Facboy manages it without heavy pressure so I'm at a loss there.


 Thats very interesting, ive just done a rave coffee, there signature roast, 18g in and reduces the grind to 5, the shot was dripping out and for 40g it was 50 seconds. To say be both have the same machine we seem to get massively different results!


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## facboy

i'm on a Bambino plus and a Baratza grinder at the moment, so perhaps its not comparable. I could try take some photos later.


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## 24774

Dalerst said:


> Thats very interesting, ive just done a rave coffee, there signature roast, 18g in and reduces the grind to 5, the shot was dripping out and for 40g it was 50 seconds. To say be both have the same machine we seem to get massively different results!


 Wow, even given differing age of beans (but only by days I imagine) and blends, that's a huge difference.


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## facboy

Immediately post dosing (with the funnel still in place):

  

The 'mess' that the funnel leaves:

     

'Tap-levelled':

     

Motta just placed lightly on top:

  

Motta rotated with its own weight until it doesn't compress any further:

  

After this I rotate while pressing down gently (which doesn't take much effort) until the Motta sits flush. I thought I had a photo of this stage but I must have forgotten.

The finished puck, no tamping. This goes straight in the portafilter and into the machine:


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## Caffeinated_fiend

I got a new tamper recently that I prefer using to the Motta as all of my coffees are dialled in for it so I will probably put it on the sale thread in the next day or so.


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## 24774

facboy said:


> Immediately post dosing (with the funnel still in place):
> 
> 
> 
> The 'mess' that the funnel leaves:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Tap-levelled':
> 
> 
> 
> Motta just placed lightly on top:
> 
> 
> 
> Motta rotated with its own weight until it doesn't compress any further:
> 
> 
> 
> After this I rotate while pressing down gently (which doesn't take much effort) until the Motta sits flush. I thought I had a photo of this stage but I must have forgotten.
> 
> The finished puck, no tamping. This goes straight in the portafilter and into the machine:


 Thanks for that. What grind setting is that on? Have you tried with 19g? All my Rave coffees needed 19g, that's where I ran into trouble. 19g on grind 3. Although that is way too much for some people's machines!


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## facboy

Ah well as I said I have a Baratza grinder and a Bambino, so I'm sure the grind settings are not comparable. It's only an Encore so I haven't got the greatest of control on grind size.


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## 24774

facboy said:


> Ah well as I said I have a Baratza grinder and a Bambino, so I'm sure the grind settings are not comparable. It's only an Encore so I haven't got the greatest of control on grind size.


 Aah yes of course, you did mention that. The Encore is a £130 stand alone grinder so I imagine it's better than the Sage one. Or at least the settings are different so it's hard to compare. Good to see the tool working though!


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## ddring

@CocoLoco hey, I'm using rave coffee at the moment. Just curious when you say you needed 19g with Rave, is that to get the taste you want or to get the shot and timing right?

Im using a barista pro, currently using their signature blend, 16g in, I'm on grind setting 2 and upper burr set to 4 and I'm now getting a great tasting consistent 32/33 seconds shot.

I didn't get on with the motta tool but have a Crema one on order to try


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## cuprajake

Why. Was it not shallow enough?

Is your pf not 58mm


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## ddring

Yeah it was way too deep for me

"that's what she said"

no it's 54mm


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## 24774

ddring said:


> @CocoLoco hey, I'm using rave coffee at the moment. Just curious when you say you needed 19g with Rave, is that to get the taste you want or to get the shot and timing right?
> 
> Im using a barista pro, currently using their signature blend, 16g in, I'm on grind setting 2 and upper burr set to 4 and I'm now getting a great tasting consistent 32/33 seconds shot.
> 
> I didn't get on with the motta tool but have a Crema one on order to try


 'is that to get the taste you want or to get the shot and timing right?'

Both. I'm drinking Americano and the shot is closer to 1:3 than 1:2 which is what I want. It tastes really nice so I've just left it. I have Artisan up next, so I'll see how they play out in regards to weight/length.


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## Harvey

Just had a stock update from Bella Barista, they have the 53mm tool back in stock if anyone is after one.

Just ordered mine 👍


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## cuprajake

For those with the motta 53mm tool

Is it adjustable?

Ive just received mine and not sure if im just being weak haha


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## ddring

Yes it's adjustable, it's pretty stiff to turn

it doesn't go super low though so bear that in mind. But you should be able to adjust it higher and lower from how it arrives


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## facboy

It's quite a hard 'stop' when you bottm it out. On mine it is the thread in the 'shiny' bit running out. It could go lower if it was threaded further. Mine is almost exactly 8mm at minimum depth (that's to the 'high' point of the wave if you are holding it upside down).

It is so stiff I thought mine was non-adjustable when I first got it.


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## ddring

I found getting a good grip was the hardest part. I ended up putting a rubber band around the silver part so it gave me the grip I needed to adjust it to the minimum


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## cuprajake

Yeah im Tempted to stick it in a rubber vice

Ive just tried it. As its a used one, so im guessing its been bottomed out.

I put my usual 18.6g into my grinder and then dosed, motta and kept removing grinds till it was totally flat.

Im about 18g in a double basket, second time 17.7g

So im thinking dose 18g. And motta and then remove the debris it creates


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## cuprajake

Elastic band worked 

yep bottomed out annoyingly.

Mite have to modify it.


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## 24774

ddring said:


> I found getting a good grip was the hardest part. I ended up putting a rubber band around the silver part so it gave me the grip I needed to adjust it to the minimum


 I found using rubber gloves worked well (which due to current national problem I have a load of). It was very hard though and I am pretty strong (and handsome). It bottoms out at about 7.75mm I think.


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## facboy

damn that is lower than mine. mine was 7.78mm.


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## ddring

7.7499mm over here


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## djam

You guys finding that this makes much difference / improvement?

Feel like I'm getting a fairly even distribution by using a dosing funnel to shake the grinds about gently before using WDT.


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## cuprajake

From using it,

The puck is harder compressed when i put the tamper on it,

It think it just improves consistency. So that odd unlevel tamp doesnt get in there

I still funnel, then wdt and spin, tamp


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## Caffeinated_fiend

I did another experiment today, I bought a 3D printed dosing funnel from Etsy for when my Niche grinder gets delivered. The dosing cup it comes with is 58mm and will fit on the end of the 3D printed funnel and as you can see the other end fits onto the portafilter. You can then give the grounds a good shake and not worry about losing any grounds. Then I have the push tamper, it's an expensive bit of kit but it is really well made and very easy to use. I have it set to 7mm and I get an even and accurate tamp every time I use it.

Ignore the bits of the puck that are damaged as I couldn't quite manage to get it out in one piece but as you can see I have a nice even puck ready to go each time.


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## tomsweddy

Hi - i purchased the Motta 53mm - are you able to adjust it? I can't see how and maybe didn't realise that...


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## ddring

@tomsweddy you can, you have to hold the black and silver pieces separately and twist them. They are tight at first but will adjust


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## Harvey

Mine arrived today (Motta) it's a lot heavier than I expected.
It was quite tight to adjust but found putting in between both palms and twisting worked.
My only observations from first use are the leveller doesn't rotate very smoothly when on top of the portafilter? Feels like it has too much movement within the basket.


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## Dale Cooper

Dale Cooper said:


> The bad review is because they bought the wrong one! There is a 53mm version (which I'm entertaining for a sage dtp)


 As a belated update, if it's useful for people, I ended up buying the 53mm leveller from Wish and it's doing a fine job. The Wish site/app is totally bonkers and the price changes depending on codes/time/which way the wind is blowing - by playing about with various approaches I ended up getting it for just over £8 / £10 delivered, which I'm more than happy with. Nice level pucks, no need to tamp, fully adjustable. I'm struggling to think what else a more expensive one might do.


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## cuprajake

do you have a link?


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## Dale Cooper

Cuprajake said:


> do you have a link?


 yes, posted back on p2:

https://www.wish.com/product/5e44cfb1ddbcbe2efcb3e7b7?hide_login_modal=true&from_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=GB&_force_currency_code=GBP&pid=googleadwords_int&c={campaignId}&ad_cid=5e44cfb1ddbcbe2efcb3e7b7&ad_cc=GB&ad_curr=GBP&ad_price=13.00&campaign_id=6493229882&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy6T1BRDXARIsAIqCTXqxja_Nkx6HbC5wUInVMjiw0VeuQZAp4g8V9p4bUxluE8TJcAK0Cl4aAs0FEALw_wcB&share=web

from what I remember, discount codes can only be used if you shop via the app. When you're done with Wish unsubscribe form any emails as they are the kings of spam!


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## facboy

@Caffeinated_fiend do you have a link for the funnel you bought? my forum search skills have let me down.

EDIT: bleh should have used my etsy search skills, is it this one? https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/786583863/niche-zero-grinder-to-brevillesage?ref=related-1


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## Caffeinated_fiend

facboy said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend do you have a link for the funnel you bought? my forum search skills have let me down.
> 
> EDIT: bleh should have used my etsy search skills, is it this one? https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/786583863/niche-zero-grinder-to-brevillesage?ref=related-1


 That's the one 🤟🏻😎🤟🏻


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## Dale Cooper

facboy said:


> @Caffeinated_fiend do you have a link for the funnel you bought? my forum search skills have let me down.
> 
> EDIT: bleh should have used my etsy search skills, is it this one? https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/786583863/niche-zero-grinder-to-brevillesage?ref=related-1


 +1 recommendation for that - one of the best accessories I've bought! Very well made and makes for a really clean and tidy workflow. Like how deep the sides are so there's loads of room for a poke about


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## facboy

@Caffeinated_fiend @Dale Cooper how long did yours take to arrive? mine sat in a 'facility' in San Francisco for 18 days, i've just looked and apparently it's departed that 3 days ago...who knows where it is now.


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## Dale Cooper

@facboy Yeah, at least that long, maybe 4 weeks, though hard to remember. I had something turn up yesterday -a free gift for creating an account- that was ordered about 3 months ago! 🤪


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## Neilpinsent

Hi guys, I'm really struggling with getting a consistant brew with my new Barista Express.. which is making consider getting one of these tools, just a quick question.. when timing the pull, do you start the stop watch when coffee hits the cup or as soon as you push the button? . I'm using good fresh local beans, with 18g dose, but with the grind set to 6 it's only taking 9 secs from when the coffee hits the cup.. but it tastes ok .. when I reduce the grind I can get a longer pull but it tastes sour. I tamp quite hard, but I'm struggling to be honest.

Any advice would be well received 👍


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## HVL87

Neilpinsent said:


> Hi guys, I'm really struggling with getting a consistant brew with my new Barista Express.. which is making consider getting one of these tools, just a quick question.. when timing the pull, do you start the stop watch when coffee hits the cup or as soon as you push the button? . I'm using good fresh local beans, with 18g dose, but with the grind set to 6 it's only taking 9 secs from when the coffee hits the cup.. but it tastes ok .. when I reduce the grind I can get a longer pull but it tastes sour. I tamp quite hard, but I'm struggling to be honest.
> 
> Any advice would be well received 👍


 To be consistent, time from when you push the button. The BE also has a built in pre-infusion which wets the puck before ramping up to full pressure. A distribution tool may help with consistency. Alternatively even out the grounds with a toothpick or tap the portafilter on a mat a few times which will also break any clumps. With a slightly finer grind and even distribution you should end up with an ok shot. No need to tamp too hard, just be consistent each time.


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## facboy

having had a distribution tool and a 'better tamper', i'd recommend the better tamper and tamp it 'til it won't tamp no more.

fwiw i have a motta leveler and a motta tamper.


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