# What do you think of Vietnamese coffee in terms of quality & reputation?



## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

*What is your opinion on Vietnamese coffee?*​
Vietnamese coffee is poor and low in quality.750.00%Vietnamese coffee is good in quality.214.29%Vietnamese coffee is fair in quality.17.14%Vietnamese coffee is excellent in quality.17.14%Vietnamese coffee has low price.214.29%Vietnamese coffee has good price.00.00%Vietnamese coffee has acceptable price.17.14%Vietnamese coffee is very expensive.00.00%


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Although Vietnam is the world's second largest coffee producer, it seems that its coffee quality is not good enough. Many foreign buyers believe that it is cheap and low in quality. What is your opinion on Vietnamese coffee in both quality and reputation?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

The perception in the market is that Robusta is more predominant and is seen as lower quality due to the mass production methods.

This is not always the case. I have had some Robustas that were clean and sweet, but were hand picked and processed.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

@Glenn, thank you. However, it seems that Vietnam needs much more effort to increase its coffee quality to gain global coffee fan's awareness.


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## Nobodysdriving (Jul 4, 2015)

@vietnamcoffee

you seem to have forgotten to add another vote option: 'I have no experience of vietnamese coffee'

that would be my answer anyway


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Has anyone try the beans from Doi Chang? I want them to be good as it's a company set up by a fellow bleeding heart Canadian but I have nightmares of "fair trade" rubbish with the profits in a white man's pocket


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

ridland said:


> Has anyone try the beans from Doi Chang? I want them to be good as it's a company set up by a fellow bleeding heart Canadian but I have nightmares of "fair trade" rubbish with the profits in a white man's pocket


I had an OK decaf of it last year and a really nice espresso of it recently from Tamp Culture in Reading. It was, to my limited tasting ability, a really good sweet and smooth espresso with nice body to it. Not wildly fruity or anything though I was really disappointed they didn't have it as an option when I went back a few days later.


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## AMCD300 (Feb 11, 2016)

Nobodysdriving said:


> @vietnamcoffee
> 
> you seem to have forgotten to add another vote option: 'I have no experience of vietnamese coffee'
> 
> that would be my answer anyway


+1. I have not had the pleasure of Vietnamese coffee yet. I'd be more than happy to give it a go if I knew where to get it...


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

I really enjoyed the coffee while I was there as long as it was with the condensed milk (either hot or iced versions). Certainly couldn't drink it black. But it's a totally different drink in my eyes to speciality arabica espresso. Much in the same way I consider tea a totally different drink.


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## JKK (Feb 19, 2014)

ridland said:


> Has anyone try the beans from Doi Chang? I want them to be good as it's a company set up by a fellow bleeding heart Canadian but I have nightmares of "fair trade" rubbish with the profits in a white man's pocket


Climpson & Sons in London had it a couple of years ago.

It was pretty good, from memory.

-JKK


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

As my understanding, Doi Chaang is a coffee growing region in Thailand, not Vietnam. Like Vietnam, the Far Nothern Thailand can cultivate coffee such as Doi Chang, Chiang Mai, etc. as same as Chieng Ban of Son La or Muong Ang of Dien Bien in Far Northwestern of Vietnam which mainly grow arabica.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

AMCD300 said:


> +1. I have not had the pleasure of Vietnamese coffee yet. I'd be more than happy to give it a go if I knew where to get it...


I've never been to the UK. However, I am heard that there are several Vietnamese coffee shops or restaurants that serve Vietnamese original foodstuffs and drinks and, of course, coffee as well.


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

I'll tell you my opinion in a week: I just roasted some Blue Dragon robusta for blending, but once it's out-gassed I'll try it straight first.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Vieux Clou said:


> I'll tell you my opinion in a week: I just roasted some Blue Dragon robusta for blending, but once it's out-gassed I'll try it straight first.


This is the first time I heard of "Blue Dragon Robusta". To be frankly, I am new to coffee. Could you mind telling me some explanation?


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

vietnamcoffee said:


> I've never been to the UK. However, I am heard that there are several Vietnamese coffee shops or restaurants that serve Vietnamese original foodstuffs and drinks and, of course, coffee as well.


I did a bit of research for you and went to a restaurant called keu in London which is supposed to be Vietnamese street food. I ordered an iced coffee made with Thung Nguyen and Longetivity condensed milk. It was very strong and bitter. It tasted like tires and I'm buzzing like crazy.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Linked to the YCE before regarding Vietnam coffee. They sell an Arabica which I have tried once. Whilst not remarkable it was far from bad and I would rate it pretty good. Big plus is its price less than £4 (excl delivery) for 200g. They do some pretty good Central and South American coffees too which might make the postage costs more acceptable for someone looking for a restock.

http://yorkcoffeeemporium.co.uk/coffee/vietnam-coffee-g1-arabica-scr18.html


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

jimbocz said:


> I did a bit of research for you and went to a restaurant called keu in London which is supposed to be Vietnamese street food. I ordered an iced coffee made with Thung Nguyen and Longetivity condensed milk. It was very strong and bitter. It tasted like tires and I'm buzzing like crazy.


Yes, that's it. I guess that "Keu" (or in Vietnamese ~ Kêu = Call) uses original Trung Nguyen Coffee. To be frankly, many people claim that they feel unhealthy after drinking Trung Nguyen Coffee. The main reason can be it contains too much robusta mixed with some percentage of soyabean inside which will contribute to the thickness. Let's say, you may probably be overloaded with artificial coffee flavors of that coffee as well. Did you feel what I've said?


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Syenitic said:


> Linked to the YCE before regarding Vietnam coffee. They sell an Arabica which I have tried once. Whilst not remarkable it was far from bad and I would rate it pretty good. Big plus is its price less than £4 (excl delivery) for 200g. They do some pretty good Central and South American coffees too which might make the postage costs more acceptable for someone looking for a restock.


I saw that the Arabica of York is Vietnam Coffee G1 Arabica Scr 18. Vietnam sorts coffee beans by screening or sieves. Screen #18 means the bean's diameter is at 7.1mm, equivalent to grade AAA. Screen 19 & 20 can be considered as grade AAA+. As the images of York show, that is Catimor varieties, not original arabica. It may be picked from Lam Dong or Son La of Vietnam as >90% of arabica in Vietnam today are Catimor. I do agree you with you on the taste. I think its taste is quite good. For single origins in Vietnam, it does have excellent original arabica such as Typica, Bourbon and Mocha. But the quantity is not many. Only farms during the colonial times are still producing original arabica. Many other farms changed to Catimor as it can develop against leaf rust.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Syenitic said:


> Linked to the YCE before regarding Vietnam coffee. They sell an Arabica which I have tried once. Whilst not remarkable it was far from bad and I would rate it pretty good. Big plus is its price less than £4 (excl delivery) for 200g. They do some pretty good Central and South American coffees too which might make the postage costs more acceptable for someone looking for a restock.
> 
> http://yorkcoffeeemporium.co.uk/coffee/vietnam-coffee-g1-arabica-scr18.html


I think York earns a good profit. As they sell 200gram for £3.50 or £17.5 for 1 kilogram. I think the producing cost is less than £7.5/ kilogram. However, this is value for money deal as the quality is fairly good.


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

vietnamcoffee said:


> This is the first time I heard of "Blue Dragon Robusta". To be frankly, I am new to coffee. Could you mind telling me some explanation?


Can't tell you much, beyond what's on the label. I got it here. (I live in France).


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

vietnamcoffee said:


> Yes, that's it. I guess that "Keu" (or in Vietnamese ~ Kêu = Call) uses original Trung Nguyen Coffee. To be frankly, many people claim that they feel unhealthy after drinking Trung Nguyen Coffee. The main reason can be it contains too much robusta mixed with some percentage of soyabean inside which will contribute to the thickness. Let's say, you may probably be overloaded with artificial coffee flavors of that coffee as well. Did you feel what I've said?


You've got it exactly right, I felt a bit unhealthy and the taste wasn't so great. The food looked very nice though, I might go back for lunch and have a noodle soup. if I do, I'll post a picture of what I get.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

jimbocz said:


> I did a bit of research for you and went to a restaurant called keu in London which is supposed to be Vietnamese street food. I ordered an iced coffee made with Thung Nguyen and Longetivity condensed milk. It was very strong and bitter. It tasted like tires and I'm buzzing like crazy.


I had a really good banh mi and a massive dumpling in Keu soho a few months ago.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

aaronb said:


> I had a really good banh mi and a massive dumpling in Keu soho a few months ago.


I've had a look at Kêu. The menu made me feel hungry! Rice dumpling (or "Bun" [bún])? Aaronb, you know, Bun used to exclusively royal food before it became the public recipe. Bun is believed to be first made in Hue - the old citadel of Vietnam where royal families used to reside. I aslo saw Huy Fong chilli sauce, very delicious and spicy


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

vietnamcoffee said:


> I've had a look at Kêu. The menu made me feel hungry! Rice dumpling (or "Bun" [bún])? Aaronb, you know, Bun used to exclusively royal food before it became the public recipe. Bun is believed to be first made in Hue - the old citadel of Vietnam where royal families used to reside. I aslo saw Huy Fong chilli sauce, very delicious and spicy


'Steamed Pork Bun' - it was huge. I love dumplings and buns.

I've been to Hue and spent a day wondering around the old city, very beautiful!


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

aaronb said:


> 'Steamed Pork Bun' - it was huge. I love dumplings and buns.
> 
> I've been to Hue and spent a day wondering around the old city, very beautiful!


Sorry for I misunderstood dumplings. Yeah, you see, dumpling and dim sum are delicious. Hue in the past was even much more beautiful. Time and war have changed everything.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Time and war have changed the landscape of pretty much every major city and town the world across.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

h1udd said:


> Time and war have changed the landscape of pretty much every major city and town the world across.


... and beautiful coffee shops, too.


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Indochinacoffee said:


> I've just stumbled onto this forum and registered as I wanted to contribute to this particular discussion. I've recently returned to the UK after spending the best part of the past year sourcing speciality green coffee in Thailand. There have been big improvements in processing techniques / facilities there over the past couple of years, and I've been able to get hold of some excellent offerings (cupped and independently profiled by an ex-chair of the Cup of Excellence judging panel). It's true that most of the coffee grown in Thailand is Catimor, but I also work with farmers who grow Bourbon and Typica - although it has to be said there are some surprisingly good examples of Catimor from Thailand (there is a theory that it tends to do better nearer to Timor Hybrid's area of origin, i.e. Southeast Asia). Anyway, if anyone is interested in obtaining some samples you can contact me here: . We'll be officially launching later in 2016, we only deal in direct trade. We will also have some amazing coffees from Yunnan in China, but that's another story. On the subject of Doi Chaang, they're a huge ($25m+) Canadian-Thai company that was originally set up with a supposedly enlightened corporate structure to benefit the Akha tribe in the Doi Chang area - there's an interesting book about them, I think it's more a story of good intentions but Western debt and financing structures have complicated matters. The Singha Corporation has recently taken them over. It's the only Thai coffee currently available in the UK but I personally think there are some better examples of outstanding coffees from the region.


The Thai is always a good sample in doing marketing and agriculture in SouthEast Asia. However, your news really surprised me as it is valued at $25m+. This is really a good news for coffee producer from Indochina in particular and Southeast Asia in general.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Indochinacoffee said:


> I've just stumbled onto this forum and registered as I wanted to contribute to this particular discussion. I've recently returned to the UK after spending the best part of the past year sourcing speciality green coffee in Thailand. There have been big improvements in processing techniques / facilities there over the past couple of years, and I've been able to get hold of some excellent offerings (cupped and independently profiled by an ex-chair of the Cup of Excellence judging panel). It's true that most of the coffee grown in Thailand is Catimor, but I also work with farmers who grow Bourbon and Typica - although it has to be said there are some surprisingly good examples of Catimor from Thailand (there is a theory that it tends to do better nearer to Timor Hybrid's area of origin, i.e. Southeast Asia). Anyway, if anyone is interested in obtaining some samples you can contact me here: We'll be officially launching later in 2016, we only deal in direct trade. We will also have some amazing coffees from Yunnan in China, but that's another story. On the subject of Doi Chaang, they're a huge ($25m+) Canadian-Thai company that was originally set up with a supposedly enlightened corporate structure to benefit the Akha tribe in the Doi Chang area - there's an interesting book about them, I think it's more a story of good intentions but Western debt and financing structures have complicated matters. The Singha Corporation has recently taken them over. It's the only Thai coffee currently available in the UK but I personally think there are some better examples of outstanding coffees from the region.


I've had good Thai specialty coffee in the past, Boot Koffie in The Netherlands have a very nice oen (not a fan of their roast profiles though). Had some nice Indonesian ones too.

Hopefully we start seeing more from Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.


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## Indochinacoffee (Mar 15, 2016)

aaronb said:


> I've had good Thai specialty coffee in the past, Boot Koffie in The Netherlands have a very nice oen (not a fan of their roast profiles though). Had some nice Indonesian ones too.
> 
> Hopefully we start seeing more from Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.


Absolutely. All three have tons of potential in terms of terroir and climate, Myanmar too is beginning to produce some excellent coffees - the problem historically has been more political than anything else in terms of why we don't see more coffees from Southeast Asia in Europe. There has been little support and zero incentive for farmers to concentrate on quality, there's just no point when middlemen pay a set price for cherry irrespective of variety / processing method etc. Some of the best areas for growing coffee are in the Golden Triangle, on the Thai side the government and royal family have long tried to encourage hilltribes to grow alternative crops to opium. Doi Chaang has set an example of how things can be done with some coordination and support (and yes the $25m figure came as a surprise to me too, but then when you think there are more than 330 Doi Chaang outlets across SE Asia before even taking into account the Canadian operation it begins to make sense). Despite some of the recent unfortunate developments with Doi Chaang, they've done an amazing job of showing the potential for coffee from the region and their original intentions for 'beyond fair trade' were certainly admirable. Sorry this is all a bit off topic! In terms of Vietnamese coffee, the oversupply in the '90s of Robusta has tarnished its reputation to a certain extent but there are some small farms concentrating on quality (like in Laos, Myanmar and Yunnan, not so much Cambodia right now). With all these producing countries, the final thing I should say is that a lot of people get put off the coffee when visiting due to the way it's roasted or served locally. But when roasted to more current Western profiles, the beans stand up to and compare well to some of the best coffees from (in particular) Central America. They're just very difficult to get hold of, for all sorts of reasons.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Fair points, but if it's sent to Europe as green beans and roasted by the same roasters we buy from on the forums that solves that issue doesn't it? Surely export cant be that much more complicated than some of the African countries?

What are the tasting notes like for the better lots? You see a lot of tobacco and earthy notes for even the better Indonesian lots which puts me off, I prefer the cleaner notes with central American lots personally.

Are you a roaster, or are you hoping to import and sell greens to the better quality roasters?


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

I strongly believe that specialty coffee is an inevitable trend of global coffee consumption. Although Vietnam is a world's coffee giant. its coffee consumption seems to be at the first trend - that is, people learn how to drink real coffee. Meanwhile, many local Vietnamese coffee roasters are claimed to produce fake coffees (here is fake coffee made from burnt soya beans). However, Vietnamese coffee farmers learn fast and adopt to changes very fast as they used to pump the world with robusta. If some local farmers here can get rich with specialty coffee, many others will promptly follow. But quality control is a challenge. Hope that specialty coffee is charming enough to help to maintain quality consistency.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

@Indochinacoffee Please contact me if you wish to advertise

links with email address / contact details removed


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Vieux Clou said:


> Can't tell you much, beyond what's on the label. I got it here. (I live in France).


I've asked several coffee specialists on Blue Dragon coffee, it turns out to be that the name was originated from French colonial times in Vietnam many years ago. The other name is *Arabica du Tonkin* in which Tonkin the name of the whole Northern Vietnam today.


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## Indochinacoffee (Mar 15, 2016)

Hi - the latter (importing and selling to roasters) and yes, we'll be exporting the green beans to Europe. I couldn't comment on whether it's more complicated than from other parts of the world, but I can assure you that it's not straightforward. Will be back in touch on the forum when we launch in a few months' time. Cheers


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## vietnamcoffee (Feb 19, 2016)

Glenn said:


> The perception in the market is that Robusta is more predominant and is seen as lower quality due to the mass production methods.
> 
> This is not always the case. I have had some Robustas that were clean and sweet, but were hand picked and processed.


I do agree with you, Glenn. Yesterday I had a talk with a coffee farmer from Kon Tum, Central Highlands, Vietnam. He told me that there were several farms out there still cultivating *"Old Robusta"*, which means the first and original robusta which was introduced into Vietnam by the French. This robusta has smaller beans than mordern robusta in Vietnam today.


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