# Lever advice



## yttria

Hi,

I'm in the process of researching the lever type machines with a view to making a purchase in the near future.

At the moment I am leaning toward the La Pavoni Europicola/Professional but would like a little advice. Does anyone have experience of the Savinelli Baby Bologna as it would appear that this can be purchased for the same price as a La Pavoni Professional. This is a spring operated lever machine and I wondered if this would be preferable, to those in the know, to the manual operation of the Pavoni.

There is also an option of a Ponte Vecchio Lusso, again a spring operated model.

Thanks in advance,

Karl


----------



## 4085

hey Karl, coffeechap is probably one of those best able to answer you, but he is on the road and will be knocking about tomorrow. He loves the La Pav but some people think they have shortcomings in the temperature stability area. there are quite a few lever users here but with bigger machines. I have a Bezzera Strega and a Londinium and can recommend both although they are very different beasts!


----------



## FDC

Hello Karl

When looking to buy my lever machine 18 months ago and seriously considered the La P. However, I opted for the Elektra Micro Casa and I havent been disappointed. I am very happy with the milky coffees it produces and its no slouch when you want straight shot. Then of course there is how the machine looks!

Sorry to throw another one into the pot. I spent ages looking and started to get a bit exasperated at the choice (too many) so I dont envy you. Best of luck. I'm sure you wont be disappointed with whatever choice you make


----------



## RoloD

If you can find a second-hand Olympia Cremina go for it. Not as pretty as a Pavoni or an EMC, but the espresso that comes out of it can hardly be bettered. New they are ridiculously over-priced, but they are so simple and well engineered they literally last a lifetime.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Cremina's are pretty rare beasts - I think one experienced forum member sold one on Ebay some months ago? Went for several hundred quids. Is the Savinelli a similar design to the Cremina - i.e. you have to top it up directly into the boiler - if so a real hassle when the machine is at operating temperature.


----------



## RoloD

That was my 1974 Cremina '67 which went for £825. New they are £2900. Which is all a bit daft, but the espresso they make, at best, is out of this world (but nowhere near as consistent as a Londinium). See the vid:


----------



## yttria

Oh dear, it looks like this could be more difficult than I had first imagined.

Unfortunately I will have to count the Cremina out as this is way beyond my budget.

Originally my limit was £200 for the machine, then realised I would need a grinder too. I now have a grinder but this has already blown over half of my budget and I am in danger of getting carried away.

A significant factor that has influenced my decision to go for the lever machine is their simplicity. I tire of replacing cheap espresso machine due to pump failures and leaking valves etc. and it would appear that other than seals/gaskets/o-rings these should be relatively trouble free.

My budget has now drifted upward and there are a number of La Pavoni machines on ebay within my reach but often they creep towards the price of a new black based Europiccola (£304 - Fairfax). Other makes seem few and far between on the second hand market.

I will post in the 'wanted' section once I can be a little more specific about my needs; hence this help thread.

Cheers for the help and advice received so far.

Karl


----------



## yttria

Just a quick couple of quick questions.

Is the only difference between the chrome and black base La Pavonis the colour of the base?

Europiccola vs Professional - w.r.t. the pressure guage, I can fit one to the Europiccola for about £25, so I think the only other difference will be the boiler size. I drink a couple of shots in the morning and one in the evening. My wife likes milky coffees and will perhaps take two a day. I have a habit of always wanting the next model up; hence my interest in the Professional.

Obviously this then opens up the Elektra Microcasa as this is in the same price range.

Please someone make a decision for me [feel free to pay too] as the Delonghi is in danger of flooding us out this weekend. And it's birthday weekend; hence the budget increase!

Cheers all.

Karl


----------



## uma_bica

Just throwing two cents here. I've owned an Europiccola for a bit more 1 year now. I'm very satisfied with the espresso quality - once you have the grinder dialed in. It's fairly consistent - could be a bit more but I tend not to be too pedantic about it. I've found it quite hard to froth milk properly, but that might just be my lack of skills ... (and I'm not using the 3-hole tip anymore, but a single hole one...)

You can probably get a used one for a decent price: Dave (coffeechap) seems to have a nice collection lying around - just try to bargain with him







.


----------



## coffeebox

I have had the old group Europiccola, new group Professional and now I have Stradivari STL. In my experience if you go for the old group machine just get the small one as I find it overheats a bit too quick to be able to pull more than 4 coffees in succession, so essentially you will not need the big boiler.

The new group apparently attempts to address the overheating issue so a big boiler may actually be useful.

I also see you are looking at Elektra - You will may get more consistent shots out of it due to the lever nature but it is much larger machine than the Pavonis and it also cost more.


----------



## coffeechap

Ok, agree with a lot of the comments , thus far. La pavoni are at their best when used in an on off manner, as they are prone to over heating, but from what you are saying the europiccola will take care of your needs, you just have to realise that the first two shots are the best temperature wise, then it pretty much gets to hot, therefore you have to cool the group head down with a wet towel of something similar, or just steam the milk and turn off. You just need to switch it on later for your afternoon, evening coffee. Another thing to consider is the quality of your grinder as the smaller lever machines are really grind specific, therefore you need to get a great quality grinder to get the best out of your lever.

Elektra microcasa are great little levers as are your other options. The savinelli and the pontevecchio, however these are all sprung levers and work slightly differently, if you opt for the pontevecchio opt for the export over the lusso as the build quality on the lusso is somewhat iffy and when things go wrong back up is at best a long time away, they specifically manufacture their own parts and as such a lot of generic parts do not fit them. IMHO the elektra is slightly better than the savinelli in terms of shot quality, however the pavoni can equal them both once you get the parameters right.

As far as the difference in relation to the la pavonis go, the standard europiccola is all that you really need for your circumstances, and the difference between the black base and the chrome base is purely cosmetic, so if you are happy with the black base take it as you can pick up a brand new one for £307. Fitting a guage is easy although you don't really need them they just look nice on the machine.

Another option for you is the gaggia 105 which is very similar to the la pavoni and in my opinion does a slightly better job and the steam seems a little better on it, the looks are slightly different and the pressure relief valve is built into the cap, but essentially similar quality to the pavoni.

Top notch in the manual lever ( you do the pressure ) is the Cremina but genuinely good luck in finding a good one for less than £800.......

Get in touch as I do have a few in ( too many in fact ) at the moment. Hope this helps.


----------



## yttria

OK, thanks for the advice, PM now sent.


----------

