# Rotary or vibration pump?



## Jugglestruck (Nov 17, 2011)

I've been looking at some nifty machines and wondered if you could tell me the advantages/disadvantages of the vibration and rotary pump.

The La Spaziale Vivaldi S1 Mk 11 and ECM Technika IV Espresso Machine has a vibration pump whereas the Izzo Alex DUETTO Mark III Espresso Machine has a rotary.

Both are pretty high end models so why the different pumps?


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

The Vivaldi has rotary, the mini Vivaldi has vibe.

Rotary pumps are quiet and have more consistent pressure, but work best with plumbed in machines as they require a bit of line pressure from the water mains (you need to use a flojet if drawing from a tank).

Vibe pumps are used for machines with water tanks instead.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

But if the pressure is an issue, what about the Rocket Evoluzione, which can be either tanked or plumbed (and just switched between the two) but runs a rotary pump?


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## Jugglestruck (Nov 17, 2011)

Is one noisier than the other?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Not sure about the pressure thing...who is to say consistent pressure is a good thing, especially with pressure profiling being all the rage.

Rotary pumps are quieter BUT vibe pumps are very much cheaper, and these things do wear out.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Rotary pumps are quiet (as long as they are recieving enough water - VERY IMPORTANT!). They generally need to be plumbed into the main . On most machines, the pump and the motor is seperate. They are also more consistant as they deliver the full water pressure at the press of the button whereas most vibe pumps start of with little pressure/water. Some people see this as an advantage for the vibe as it 'pre-infuses' (this is not strictly true but is similar to real pre-infusion). Vibe pumps are usually extremely adjustable too.

Apart from being much cheaper, vibe pumps are perfect for small domestic machines as they like small water reservoirs, do not need constant pressure and can cope with low pressure of lack of water.


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## Jugglestruck (Nov 17, 2011)

Thank you one and all for your help. As I continue to scan those lovely machines I will be one step closer to finding the right one.........


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

Was searching the forum for a pro/cons on rotary verses vibe machines. If rotary isn't very good with tanked machines why would manufacturers offer them? Also, is there a taste difference in rot vs vib if the machine uses an E61 brew group?


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Rotary is fine with just a tank, but you need a flowjet or similar in the path - I think that most tanked machines with rotary pumps have one.

Rotary is still more 'accurate' in providing pressure - the standard method with a vibe pump is to basically max out the little bugger and use an OPV to control the pressure. With rotary the OPV is a safety feature.

There shouldn't be a taste difference per se, but you might find it easier with the rotary to be more consistent. You will certainly get less headaches.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ATZ said:


> Was searching the forum for a pro/cons on rotary verses vibe machines. If rotary isn't very good with tanked machines why would manufacturers offer them? Also, is there a taste difference in rot vs vib if the machine uses an E61 brew group?


I can give you true back story on this.

more than 12 years ago, home Prosumer machines were available with Vibe pumps and were predominantly HX machine and single boiler non HX. The rotary pumped machines were for commercial use ands tended to be large 1+ group machines, with Rotary pumps and no internal cold water tank. Choice was limited and the manufacturers didn't take the home market too serioously....they certainly were not going to put a Rotary pump in and have it work of a tank rather than positive pressure...because it, well it wouldn't work would it. They made machines, they knew best and the consumers/retailers didn't argue because the manufacturers knew best, didn't they?

Then someone said....I want to see a rotary pumped machine, that isn't huge, has an internal cold water tank and a single E61 group. I also want to be able to switch it to tanked or mains water if I want. Lo and behold, the Izzo Alex MK1 was born, the first internal tanked rotary pumped E61 prosumer machine....that was suitable to have at home. So other manufacturers realised people wanted small rotary pumped machines and the pump on the Alex had not blown it's guts after a year on sale and many people buying them. They too must have revisited the specifications for the rotary pumps and realised that they had not bothered to read them properly and they would work just fine off of a tank. This was spurred on by loss of sales to the Alex.

Meanwhile the "someone" who started this trend off was now busy asking why a dual boiler couldn't be made with a PID that fitted in exactly the same sized case and had a rotary pump and internal tank.....after they finished initially laughing at him, then telling him it wasn't possible, followed up with no one wants it. Their sales department told them to build one. Upon receiving the top level design from this someone, the technical department argued with them that they were wrong and that a PID wasn't needed, the rotary wouldn't fit and it would need a vibe etc.. etc..The someone gave them the answers they needed to make it fit and convinced them to put a real PID in it....Lo and Behold the Duetto was born.

Of course all the manufacturers again followed suit. Now this someone looked back on what he had started and said to himself...Hmm, had I known what I know now I would have pushed harder for some things. Especially asking for the cheaper vibe pump option in some of these machines. I would have also not told Gicar that 130C was a good maximum for a steam boiler setting in their ubiquitous PIDs, because in truth it was just a guestimate. 140 would have been better.

The reason this person should have insisted on vibe pump options was one of cost...sadly the manufacturers made merry with the Rotary. Apart from the lack of noise...which is rather cool, a single group machine works just as well as a vibe pump, with a few advantages.


Vibe pumps last about the same length of time, but when they need replacement are 3 or 4 times cheaper than just the rotary pump itself.

Vibe pumps don't leak when they fail

If the RPM motor gets damaged or fails...it's really quite expensive and separate to the rotary pump head

Vibe pumps give a nice soft pressurisation

Vibe pumps used with a GOOD quality expansion valve can have just as good pressure stability

Vibe pump isn't affected by running dry or heavy cavitation


Sure rotary pumps don't flood it back to the tank like a vibe pump does...but so what. They are noisy of course, which is what makes rotary pumps cool and I happen to just like rotary pumps....but then I have a spare pump head in my box. The other thing that would shock people is if they knew just how much the actual manufacturers pay for these pumps and pump+motors!

So in conclusion, rotary or Vibe it makes no difference....apart from cost noise and coolness I suppose..


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Interesting, currently R58 is running on tank, and often runs out mid use, does it have flowjet? do plan plumb in if we don't move neaxt year.


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## u2jewel (Aug 17, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Vibe pumps last about the same length of time, but when they need replacement are 3 or 4 times cheaper than just the rotary pump itself.
> 
> .


Thanks for the story 

Regarding life expectancy of pumps.. Can't remember where exactly, but I remember reading in several places (as well as videos) that rotary pumps last a lot longer than vibe pumps. Is it a marketing trick by manufacturers /vendors to sell more expensive machines? If it is, I fell for it


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

u2jewel said:


> Thanks for the story
> 
> Regarding life expectancy of pumps.. Can't remember where exactly, but I remember reading in several places (as well as videos) that rotary pumps last a lot longer than vibe pumps. Is it a marketing trick by manufacturers /vendors to sell more expensive machines? If it is, I fell for it


in a busy commercial environment with the pump running most of the day....sure rotary may well last a lot longer. Also In a multi group machine...need rotary pump. However in *the domestic environment* used for 1 double per day (judging by most for sale ads). The seals etc.. basically time expire and you tend to get a similar life as a vibe pump.....that has been my experience. e.g. take a rotary pump machine used for a year or so, then stored for 10 years and you might well find you need a new pump.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ulka-EP5-Water-Pump-German/dp/B003MS6E20/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511782454&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=ULKA+EX5

The above pump is £12.80 inc free delivery. If you get a rotary pump (just the pump head), it's going to be £75 or £80, perhaps even more. You alkso need to get the right type for your motor, keyway and GPH rating. You can buy like 6 or 7 vibe pumps for 1 rotary pump head. if each vibe pump lasts 7 years or longer (which is should in the domestic environment.) That's nearly 50 pump years for the same cost as a single rotary pump head.

Yes it's marketing if they say there are any advantages beyond noise and coolness.


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