# Heating element .. In a fix



## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

Wondered if someone can offer advice please.

La San Marco 85 16m-prac

Heating element wire has come away from the middle bit between the live and neutral connectors (pictured) . Is this an earth wire? If so, any tips on re-attaching it (solder?) Or is it a 'sling it' job?

Cheers


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Lady Stardust said:


> Is this an earth wire?


 😲 if you have to ask then i'm sorry about being *blunt/to-the-point *......if you don't know then *DON'T TOUCH IT.*....as you said.....*SLING IT*......life's too short


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Put it up for sale.....you never know; someone with the correct knowledge/skills/qualifications *may* buy it from you....but please *state/show* the above *FAULT* for clarification/comebacks.....good luck if you go this route.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I wouldn't have thought it's an earth (unusual place to put it). Unless they thought that the gasket might provide total Isolation from the boiler (unrealistic) and a separate earth would be a safety feature. At the moment I have no idea what it is for sure...you need to trace that wire back to its origin and see what it attaches to....with the machine unplugged of course.

P.S. Be good to see the other side of the heating element as well. See what's on the inside surface where that wire attached.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

FWIW clean that yellow sticker and post a picture of it on here.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> I wouldn't have thought it's an earth (unusual place to put it). Unless they thought that the gasket might provide total Isolation from the boiler (unrealistic) and a separate earth would be a safety feature. At the moment I have no idea what it is for sure...you need to trace that wire back to its origin and see what it attaches to....with the machine unplugged of course.
> 
> P.S. Be good to see the other side of the heating element as well. See what's on the inside surface where that wire attached.


 Thanks, I'm here to learn, so appreciate the constructive feedback.

The wire was fixed to the rod running through the middle.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)




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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> FWIW clean that yellow sticker and post a picture of it on here.


 Thanks Rumple

Here's a couple of photos. If I order a new heating element I have the same problem as I will still need to attach the wire. The wire I'm pointing to is the culprit, goes from the middle hole of the heating element (that is attached to the rod through the middle) and into this box. I'm happy to get an engineer out, just don't want someone to turn up, fix the wire in 30 seconds and leave if it's that simple.

Appreciate the help


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Is it a lead to a thermal sensor ? = part missing ?

Is it a cable or is it a capillary tube ?

Check the end plate , I think you will find it is 110 volt


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> *1)* Is it a lead to a thermal sensor ? = part missing ?
> 
> *2)* Is it a cable or is it a capillary tube ?
> 
> *3)* Check the end plate , I think you will find it is 110 volt


 1) could be...i was thinking thermocouple....but i'm not 100% (i could be wrong) and as such i wouldn't touch it....be easier (read less hassle) to sell it on/scrap it.

2) nope

3) nope

@Lady Stardusthave you managed to source the element (does it have "the wire" attached?); i googled but couldn't find it....i found a 3-phase element that looked similar. Again this looks like it's been sat in a garage for years...things deteriorate (age), corrode, etc. etc. and whilst i admire your desire to get it going, you could get a competent engineer to give you a quote for fixing; but just asking them to re-attach the wire is no guarantee it'll work...they will probably tell you this up-front. Better to get a quote for "fixing"...it's then a choice of is it worth it/not ? .......me i'd sell it due to it's age; but YMMV.

Good luck either way.

p.s. your reply would qualify you to use the "for-sale" section on this forum (5 post rule)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think it's probably the manufacturers' idea of ensuring the level probe works properly and providing a good earth for the element sheaths because of the flange gasket. All unnecessary of course.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> 1) could be...i was thinking thermocouple....but i'm not 100% (i could be wrong) and as such i wouldn't touch it....be easier (read less hassle) to sell it on/scrap it.
> 
> 2) nope
> 
> ...


 You can buy the new elements but without the wire attached (the element is still intact).

You mean sell the whole machine?


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Yaaaay you've reached 5 posts.....have you got a link ? ......and yeah the whole machine....you'd probably get more bites on here than fleabay; but you may also get none on both.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> I think it's probably the manufacturers' idea of ensuring the level probe works properly and providing a good earth for the element sheaths because of the flange gasket. All unnecessary of course.


 That's interesting. I wonder if it is indeed an unnecessary part of the element setup. Haven't tried it yet with the wire completely detached. I'll try it later and see if it's problem solved. Cheers


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

You might find the autofill doesn't stop as that wire could be the earth side of the autofill circuit. By this I mean the other half of the autofill circuit....and in some way connected to a pin on the sutofill box.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Looking at a picture of a new (110 volt) element, it has two connections and a tubular hole in addition . Thermocouple ?


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> Looking at a picture of a new (110 volt) element, it has two connections and a tubular hole in addition . Thermocouple ?


 Done a bit more research this eve, think you're right, thanks for your help.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Lady Stardust said:


> Done a bit more research this eve, think you're right, thanks for your help.


 If it's a thermocouple it will connect to two wires that are silver (in colour).


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Lady Stardust said:


> Done a bit more research this eve, think you're *right*..


 Good news...but right about which bit ?....that yours is 120V ....or....that it may be a thermocouple ?


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## NewboyUK (Jul 14, 2018)

Overheat stat?


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> Good news...but right about which bit ?....that yours is 120V ....or....that it may be a thermocouple ?


 A thermocouple I think. Got a guy from 'your spares' looking into it. If it's a simple purchase and fit then I'll give it a go. If not, then I might take your advice and scrap it. Thanks Rumple.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

NewboyUK said:


> Overheat stat?


 After much research, what I think is happening is apparently common with these, in that the sheathing on the wire comes away and the wire touches the metal and trips the system. It only happens when you hit the brew switch. This San Marco is 18 years old and is the first problem I've had with it, which is incredible really.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

So, new thermocouple didn't solve it. I'm going to get a new heating element next as won't hurt to replace anyway. Next challenge - my San Marco 85 16m practical has a 1500W element, I can only find a 1750W, I guess this would put extra amps through the circuit but enough for problems?


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

If it's the same "fitting" and it's the same voltage as yours (i assume 240v) then yeah go for it.....P=IV.....Power = Current (i) x Voltage (v)....therefore to get "i" on it's own we "divide" the "v"....ergo I=P/V....therefore :- 1750W (P) divided by 240v (V) = 7.29A (I) compared to ....1500W/240=6,25 Amps

7.29 Amps - 6.25 Amps = 1.04 Amps difference

So it's not a massive increase in Ampage (only 1 Amp)...chances are the "tolerance/s" of the switches/relays/etc. etc. will more than likely cover this "slight" increase....in a nutshell; go for it.


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## Lady Stardust (Nov 8, 2020)

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> If it's the same "fitting" and it's the same voltage as yours (i assume 240v) then yeah go for it.....P=IV.....Power = Current (i) x Voltage (v)....therefore to get "i" on it's own we "divide" the "v"....ergo I=P/V....therefore :- 1750W (P) divided by 240v (V) = 7.29A (I) compared to ....1500W/240=6,25 Amps
> 
> 7.29 Amps - 6.25 Amps = 1.04 Amps difference
> 
> So it's not a massive increase in Ampage (only 1 Amp)...chances are the "tolerance/s" of the switches/relays/etc. etc. will more than likely cover this "slight" increase....in a nutshell; go for it.


 Thanks for that. Yeah, thought the small increase would be ok. You're the man in the know electronics wise, something I'm interested in learning more about, fix up some power tools too. Can you recommend any decent beginners online tutorials?


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

Lady Stardust said:


> ...Can you recommend any decent beginners online tutorials?...


 Not offhand...can't say as i've looked at the "competition" recently (been a few years)....i'm sure there will be plenty (maybe even forum/s)....Gooooogle is your friend (or not) as the saying goes.

If i get bored i may do a search for likeminded peeps as myself....be wary of £$ in any site/page....you will probably find plenty of "beginners tutorials" for FREE...the advanced stuff however may come at a price....only a search will reveal this or not.....all depends on what level/goals one is trying to achieve....good luck either way.

P.S. anyone who shows their credentials is better to use than someone/hobbyist who doesn't/won't show their credentials.....think gas and Corgi registered for example; you get the gist.


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