# What are shims?



## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

Hi

sorry if it's a stupid question.

I tried search function

what are shims ? (im presuming it improves the grind )

are they available on all grinders?

if you add them after purchase do you invalidate Waranty ?

any makes / retailers add them on pres sales optional?

Can you add and remove them easily at will

are they make / model specific ?

Thanks in advance

alan


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What grinder do you have?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Baratza?


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

Hi

usually I buy (... Insert any consumer durable ) in haste, discover I bought badly, discover a forum , get advice, sell and then buy a new recommended one, throwing money down the drain

this time ,hard as it to resist impulse

Im reading / asking in the forums first

so in answer to question no grinder yet

but it'll be entry level

maybe mc2/ sage / Baratza etc


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

A shim is a thin spacer: Card or rubber ones are often used to add depth to new group seals, to allow for wear on the PF lugs. Can also be used under grinder burrs to alter the grind range.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Excuse my ignorance but i thought shims changed stepped to stepless in some machines ? is this not the case ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Excuse my ignorance but i thought shims changed stepped to stepless in some machines ? is this not the case ?


No


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Alan, to answer you question and as already stated  shims are thin "packers" made from various materials depending on there use or function. Paper ,card,plastic and metal.

Some are home made others are bought preformed / machined.

As to your question about grinders /shims there are a couple of grinders where shims are supplied /fitted. For more specific information ask the question when you have decided on a grinder and members will tell you if it needs /should have shims with it or fitted.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Asgross said:


> Hi
> 
> usually I buy (... Insert any consumer durable ) in haste, discover I bought badly, discover a forum , get advice, sell and then buy a new recommended one, throwing money down the drain
> 
> ...


Are you mainly going to use this grinder for espresso? This will have a major impact on what is recommended.

Others have already correctly explained the function of shims, so in relation to the grinders you're looking at:

MC2 - No shims required

Sage - Smart grinder must have shims. Not needed with newer version (Smart Grinder Pro)

Baratza - Encore can be shimmed to improve espresso grind performance. Would not recommend this grinder for primarily espresso use (personal experience).

Out of the three, the MC2 is probably the best if you are only interested in Espresso. However if you want to do a mix of brewed and espresso I'd recommend the Sage Smart Grinder Pro.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Shims and coffee to me are most mentioned with the vario home where u fit the shims (Glenn kindly sent me some when I needed some) to stop the levers slidding...


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Would it be fair to say that shims push the burrs slightly closer together that allow to grind finer.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Would it be fair to say that shims push the burrs slightly closer together that allow to grind finer.


That was my understanding


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> Are you mainly going to use this grinder for espresso? This will have a major impact on what is recommended.
> 
> Others have already correctly explained the function of shims, so in relation to the grinders you're looking at:
> 
> ...


Personally think the Sage is shockingly bad for brewed (in the cup), whereas the Encore isn't far behind something like a Tanzania.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Interesting to hear you say that Gary. I have been using Sage Smart Pro with the Brazen Plus. I think that it is set to about 40 (just into filter range).

I've been pretty happy with the results so far. Very happy in fact.

Do you reckon that I should give the Feldgrind a go and see what difference there is? 60g is a fair amount of grinding, but only 30 seconds on the Sage.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

garydyke1 said:


> Personally think the Sage is shockingly bad for brewed (in the cup), whereas the Encore isn't far behind something like a Tanzania.


If this was for brewed only I'd say Encore all the way. However the fact he's looking at an MC2 suggests espresso is going to play a part which rules the Encore out IMO.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

NickdeBug said:


> Interesting to hear you say that Gary. I have been using Sage Smart Pro with the Brazen Plus. I think that it is set to about 40 (just into filter range).
> 
> I've been pretty happy with the results so far. Very happy in fact.
> 
> Do you reckon that I should give the Feldgrind a go and see what difference there is? 60g is a fair amount of grinding, but only 30 seconds on the Sage.


Having daily access to a Marco Uber, EK43 and VTA-6 you become spoilt. Also quickly hones the palate to good v bad grinders.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

risky said:


> If this was for brewed only I'd say Encore all the way. However the fact he's looking at an MC2 suggests espresso is going to play a part which rules the Encore out IMO.


He hasn't stated what he wants it for , its not really my concern. Just throwing my t'pence in on my experience having used all 3 grinders in the past


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Personally think the Sage is shockingly bad for brewed (in the cup), whereas the Encore isn't far behind something like a Tanzania.


Just out of interest Gary, how do you think the Baratza Encore compare Baratza Maestro Plus for brewed?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

risky said:


> Are you mainly going to use this grinder for espresso? This will have a major impact on what is recommended.
> 
> Others have already correctly explained the function of shims, so in relation to the grinders you're looking at:
> 
> ...


I thought the Sage was considered a bit better than the mc2 for Espresso...

Also the huge convenience of the electronically timed doses and ease of adjustment if necessary are huge pluses.

If you can stretch to it the Eureka Mignon is a great grinder that is well worth considering. You pay a bit more but it would save you the inevitable desire to upgrade in the very near future.

Of course as has been said, it's primary use should be the first question.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Just out of interest Gary, how do you think the Baratza Encore compare Baratza Maestro Plus for brewed?


Never got the chance to try them side by side. Would be pretty close. Maestro plus was v good for the money


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

Hi

appreciate all the replies

im looking for a grinder that's for espresso ( I'm hoping that I'll be so happy with my espresso I will not want to go back to my caffietier )- probably start with a Gaggia ( though I get impression out of the box and post Philips they are less than reliable ??).

I was watching (Seattle coffee gear ) video of encour mod and video stated that's once been altered it will grind good enough for espresso but that's at its limit

does this suggest the grinder will not last long in this mod?

or that I'll be limited on the beans ( roast ) I can use ?

or that I'll be limited on machines that can work with this grinder

they seemed less than enthused with sage ( and I hate the idea sage / brevile have to pay a celeb to endorse )

but I think it's a great looking machine

would their bottom rung machine be acceptable?

again thanks in advance

alan


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Are you not enjoying filter coffee?. it seems strange to 'fix' bad cafeitiere brews with espresso. Given that its much easier to make amazing filter coffee than espresso.


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

sorry if I have that impression its not the case

im enjoying reading forums , watching videos , reading blogs ,buying different Beans, playing with my hario , timings etc

i get satisfaction when I brew well and want to improve when it's not good

but I love espresso

as I stated in my intro post im enjoying trying espresso in different London independants ( currently mothers milk is my favourite ) and its what I aspire to - making my own enjoyable espresso at home for myself and then becoming a coffee bore and making for my friends and family


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

What's your budget?


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

Budget for new grinder sub £200

for a second hand grinder sub £110


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

risky said:


> What's your budget?


To the OP this will be key

If you want the kind of espresso that quality cafe's serve , it is going to cost you ... Grinder wise it's gonna need some £'s thrown at it , a hario modded or not won't cut it ....

Grinder £200-250 ( second hand sj )

Stuff > scales, tamper, baskets > £50

Gaggia . £80 -150 . I think there is a pidded one for sale at £150 ish at the moment in the sales section . Pid makes if much more useable than a stock model...

Oh and good fresh coffee


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Asgross said:


> Budget for new grinder sub £200
> 
> for a second hand grinder sub £110


Hi not being blunt ( now gonna be blunt )

Why?

If you have £200 spend it wisely , don't limit it to " New " , its false economy it really is , ive seen it countless times the under £100 grinder sold very quickly , second hand will get you alot more bang for your buck and better in the cup...

If you feel uncomfortable with this , save up til you can get something decent , don't buy the cheapest ,first thing thats in your budget


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I agree with Boots, why is your budget lower for a S/H?

The beauty of buying S/H is that you get more bang for your buck, the buck being unchanged.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'm not advocating £1000's on gear for espresso , but there is a good level ( grinder is key ) if you are going to try and achieve some tasty balanced shots to drink

I presume when the OP says loves espresso , means , drunk neat in shots , not in milk ( which can hide a multitude of sins )

New £200 Second hand £100 put you in the same range of grinders

New/ seocnd - Mc2 / Sage / Greaf /

Second hand £100 most things out of reach

At £200 your looking at perhaps a used madcap , or mignon , RR45 ? at a little bit more SJ's seem to come closer and will do a bean decent justice ...

Buy a used MC2 now for £80 > sell it / lust after something else / give up after a few months


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

I guess I'm slightly apprehensive that the higher the quality grinder

the more the variables to get wrong

I've seen post from people who've lost their way

it struck me that after passing your driving test you don't go out and buy a sport cars as your first

mor as my analogy wrong

id prefer s/h so that there is little lost if/when I trade up


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

There isn't a huge amount to grinders. The bigger/better grinders do exactly the same job, they deliver ground coffee, but they do it to a higher quality.

Even the most complex grinder is relatively simple.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Asgross said:


> I guess I'm slightly apprehensive that the higher the quality grinder
> 
> the more the variables to get wrong
> 
> ...


The cheaper the grinder , the more likely it is you will not meet the expectations of taste

If you buy well s/h and you choose to move it on you will loose nothing / little , certainly less than a new grinder at £200, where the price will drop as soon as you open the box ...

A more expensive grinder wont change the variables to make them harder , a less expensive one won't make the variables easier.

Variables are still grind , dose , tamp , temp , water

Good grinder will make the ingredient ( the coffee ) more consistent in grind size , making it potentially tastier to extract a balanced cup ( not too bitter not too sour )


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Incidentally, all other things being equal (cost, insurance, tax, fuel, maintenante etc) I would have a used sports car over a new Punto any day of the week.


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> The cheaper the grinder , the more likely it is you will not meet the expectations of taste
> 
> If you buy well s/h and you choose to move it on you will loose nothing / little , certainly less than a new grinder at £200, where the price will drop as soon as you open the box ...


i completely agree

s/h would be my first choice

but it struck me more exspensive grinders like super j at £250+

May be harder to sell than cheaper s/h that seem to go quicker ( from my cursory window shopping of "for sale"

Or does everything go at a similar price to indentical models ?


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

Dylan said:


> Incidentally, all other things being equal (cost, insurance, tax, fuel, maintenante etc) I would have a used sports car over a new Punto any day of the week.


i think that I would have be one a better driver ,quicker, not driving a sports as my first car - certainly fewer accidents in theory anyway - my fiirst car was a s/h 850cc ford fiesta in 1979 still managed to smash it up

in fact I've just remembered I hit another car withiin 5 mins of my first drive of my newly delivered first decent car in 80"

So maybe I simply wrong


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

I forgot ,the reason I originally planned to spend more new was I've got £80 Amazon vouchers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

bargains can be had ....

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24667-Sold-Compak-K6-grinder-cleaned-modded-new-burrs-great-condition-%A3180 ( SOLD )

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24343-1-Still-available-1-Sold-Elektra-MXPC-Evolution-grinder still for sale ....

two Sj's at £250 for sale ..... at worst you would loose £20-50 if you sold em , at best nothing ....

Hold your cash , keep your eyes peeled, make an offer


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Asgross said:


> Budget for new grinder sub £200
> 
> for a second hand grinder sub £110


this makes no sense at all unless you were considering a second hand version of the new one at £200. going second hand opens up a whole new level of grinder to you for the same money you wanted to spend on a new one.


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## Asgross (Jun 14, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> this makes no sense at all unless you were considering a second hand version of the new one at £200. going second hand opens up a whole new level of grinder to you for the same money you wanted to spend on a new one.


After reading earlier posts my first choice is a s/h entry level, espresso competent ,grinder which I've noticed come up in the for sale section - just a matter of waiting

as I stated earlier the only reason I was going to buy the same Model but new was because I had Amazon vouchers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Amazon voucher use it for milk jug, cleaners, tamper knock box


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You can sell Amazon vouchers for around 90% of value on places like AVForums, or possibly even here... should you so wish.


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