# Question on beans and grind



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Hi chaps, I'm relatively new to this game and have a Silvia and MC2 Iberital. Been getting some real nice results after receiving some quality tips and information from you all on this forum.

Since July I've been using Happy Donkey Italian beans no idea when roasted (Poss July but been kept airtight and in sealed bags ever since). Today I received some Original Espresso Blend from Extract Coffee in Bristol which were roasted yesterday (Tuesday 23rd Oct)

Question is - Kept same grind setting on grinder and weighed out 18g of ground beans in the filter basket. HOWEVER! the 18g from the new batch of Extract Coffee's beans did not come anywhere near to the same overspill/height in basket as the Happy Donkey grinded 18g did. I used to have to struggle to make the ground 18g fit in the basket but today the Extract Coffee's blend sat in with lots of clearance!

Any ideas why?! The beans were measured to 18g as I have always done! and both used a full 2 cycles and a tiny little top-up of the MC2 grind timer setting to produce the 18g.

Thoughts??


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

p.s. the cappucino I made today was beautiful! Lots of Chocolate and Caramel notes. Think I'll be sticking with fresher roasted beans and order less but more often so I have more fresher beans at hand. Reason I went for the 6kilos of Happy Donkey at the time, was that I thought it would've taken me ages and lots of beans to dial in the MC2, but I dialed it in with less than half a bag of beans, so had tonnes left over!


----------



## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Generally speaking the darker the roast the less the beans will weigh meaning for the same dose will have a larger volume with a dark roast than a lighter roast.

Also (again very generally speaking) higher quality coffee is denser than lower quality coffee so that will also be a factor. Extract original is a really nice blend, glad you're enjoying it!


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Ah thanks for the infos. Yeah I noticed the E-C roast being a tad lighter than my previous H-D beans. Really love the blend. Can't wait til morning for a lovely cappu


----------



## golden1 (Jan 21, 2012)

This may be a little long winded, but :

When coffee is first roasted, it contains a lot of short chain sugars, complex proteins, and a *LOT* of Carbon di-oxide.

When you grind it, you need to grind a little coarsely, as the hot-high-pressure water hitting it causes it to spontaniously de-gass, which increases brew pressure, resulting in more of the oils and sugars in the grind to be extracted, but less of the solids.

REALLY fresh roased coffee tends to taste Sweeter, (or astleast less bitter) and extracts faster, producing more crema and a "brighter" shot.

If you leave the coffee for a few weeks, (or in an open packet for a few days) a lot of the carbon dioxide escapes. Also some of the sugars re-crystalise into longer chain sugars, and some of the proteins oxidise.

Now you have to grind a bit finer, in order to get the same pressure in the grouphead. there's less gas, and the sugars and proteins in the grind are less soluable, BUT the sugars that do disolve are more complex and "carmaelly".

You get less crema, but a more "rounded" and full bodied flavour.

Now, assume that you leave the beans another few weeks. Say in a distro warehouse, or on a supermarket shelf.

ALL of the Carbon diaoxide has finished escaping. The proteins have fully oxidised, and most, if not all of the simple sugars have crystalised into complex long chain sugars, and even some of the longer chains have started to form back into starch.

The oils in the beans have fully expressed, and even started to oxidise.

Now no matter how hard you tamp, they wont form a puck. There's nothing in the coffee to up brew head pressure, and even if there was, there's no sugars to extract.

what you get is insipid deamon piss. Or a i like to call it "starbucks". There's no crema, very little sugar, sour proteins and a very bitter bland coffee which is mostly solids, and no oils.


----------



## golden1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Oh. And as you roast coffee more you get differing flavours.

VERY light coffee's tend to be all acid and Fruity. You can taste the "greenness" of the beans.

Light roasts are still a little acidig, but now ther'yre "bitter sweet" Still a little fruity, but now theyre fruity cofee.

mid roasts (Ie, stopped just shy of 2nd crack or there abouts) are starting to be full bodied, but still have "bright" notes.

Darker roast are full bodied, With bitter and "dark" being the main characteristics, and mnore complex flavours.

VERY dark roasts (Just short of charcoal) are Very bitter and only the STRONGEST bean flavours surviving.

(then there's "Spanish" roast coffee, which is as far as i can tell, Charcoal)


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up. The beans I have were roasted on Tuesday past. However even though I'm getting a lot of crema now with a coarser grind, the crema is dissipating fast and by time I've foamed my milk (few mins later) the crema is all but gone. Any suggestions?


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

poona said:


> Thanks for the heads up. The beans I have were roasted on Tuesday past. However even though I'm getting a lot of crema now with a coarser grind, the crema is dissipating fast and by time I've foamed my milk (few mins later) the crema is all but gone. Any suggestions?


Crema doesnt last that long post shot, it degrades quickly. Some people steam milk first and keep milk swirling whilst the shot is pulling. Others with dual boilers can pull and steam at the same time.

If you want to pop over to mine for a ''barista jam'' before you move down south give me a shout! Im around tomorrow


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

No worries, thanks for offer anyway Gary


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Also, when I got the beans on Wednesday that were roasted the day before. I opened the packet and placed directly in an airtight container. Should I have left them in the open to lose their Co2 before I started using them? I'm just not quite sure I'm getting good coffee from them? 27 second shot at 18g is coming out quite bitter with very little crema.

I should say that initially good head of crema which then disappears totally in a few seconds.

Next time I pull a shot Ill take a pic of what I mean. Swear I'm getting so much nicer looking shots from the happy donkey beans. V odd.


----------

