# Choices Choices



## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Have decided to upgrade to probably a HX machine , will be in the next few months but need some advice or recommendation as to which machine.

Budget will be around 1k

Don't think a double boiler will be suitable as we rarely have milk based drinks and I don't fancy the water sitting in the boiler going stagnant !

I would like a rotary pump rather than vibe and plumbing in is no problem if needed .

Smallish footprint if possible to keep the Mrs happy









What do you think guys ?


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Think you should get your name down for the Rocket Evoluzione draw as sounds like it ticks every box for you!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If going for espresso only why not a lever?

But is hx a ton to choose from in that price point .

When how say small footprint , what space do you have ? Nothing with a biggish boiler will be really small.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

What are you upgrading from, and do you already have a decent grinder?


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> If going for espresso only why not a lever?
> 
> But is hx a ton to choose from in that price point .
> 
> When how say small footprint , what space do you have ? Nothing with a biggish boiler will be really small.


Yeh , not ruled out a lever , just this second been reading up on them


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

BB do a ECM hx machine for £1100 too, rocket Cellini is a bit more ?

Get yourself in the raffle too.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Glenn said:


> What are you upgrading from, and do you already have a decent grinder?


Hi Glenn , have a Gaggia Classic at the mo and yes have a good grinder .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> Hi Glenn , have a Gaggia Classic at the mo and yes have a good grinder .


we'll be the judge of that...







(joke)

what grinder you got ?

edit forgot you have the eureka don't you


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> BB do a ECM hx machine for £1100 too, rocket Cellini is a bit more ?
> 
> Get yourself in the raffle too.


How do you rate the Londinium Mrboots ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> How do you rate the Londinium Mrboots ?


I'm bias , but amazing .

A lot more than £1100 now, worth every penny to me.

Strega is closer , different machine to londinium.

any questions u got re l1 drop me a pm , otherwise I'll drag your thread off topic completely


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Want to make the right decision on this one , don't want to regret it at this price !


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

That ECM Boots mentioned (here) is a great machine. If I was in the market for a good HX machine it would definitely be on my list. Rated it highly for milk steaming but that isn't what you would need it for.

Nice even extractions too. Paired with a Mignon its a lovely machine.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'm bias , but amazing .
> 
> A lot more than £1100 now, worth every penny to me.
> 
> ...


Ok Mrboots , the L1 ( or a lever machine ) is something I hadn't considered until a moment ago and reading a little about them they do seem to fit the bill .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> Ok Mrboots , the L1 ( or a lever machine ) is something I hadn't considered until a moment ago and reading a little about them they do seem to fit the bill .


Ok londinium best you can get new, but nearer £2000 now.

coffeechap is the font of all levers could give you experience on a more diverse range of machines


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Glenn said:


> That ECM Boots mentioned (here) is a great machine. If I was in the market for a good HX machine it would definitely be on my list. Rated it highly for milk steaming but that isn't what you would need it for.
> 
> Nice even extractions too. Paired with a Mignon its a lovely machine.


Nice looking machine Glenn but I think it has a vibe pump and I would want a rotary .


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Expobar HX with rotary pump? Should be about 1k.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok londinium best you can get new, but nearer £2000 now.
> 
> coffeechap is the font of all levers could give you experience on a more diverse range of machines


2k !! OMG







have to get a night job as well !

well £1950 to be exact.....

youd never want another machine ..


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-machines/rotary-pump.html

There's a selection of rotaries for you


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Expobar is probably the best option if space is at a premium and I think you can turn the steam boiler off too...


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> 2k !! OMG
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Might as well you'll be up half the night dialling in your new coffee machine and probably new grinder to ? ?


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

funinacup said:


> Expobar HX with rotary pump? Should be about 1k.


They look a nice machine and seem to have a decent size drip tray to .


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-machines/rotary-pump.html
> 
> There's a selection of rotaries for you


Like the look and spec of the Cellini mate


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

get in the raffle as you will have the opportunity to choose which rocket evo2 you want...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Soll said:


> Might as well you'll be up half the night dialling in your new coffee machine and probably new grinder to ? 


If it's taking you half a night to dial in your doing it wrong


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> get in the raffle as you will have the opportunity to choose which rocket evo2 you want...


If you can guarantee I win I'll do it right now CC


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> If it's taking you half a night to dial in your doing it wrong


That was my first night with the Strega, it was like a first date getting to know each other


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> If you can guarantee I win I'll do it right now CC


chuck in £20 it could be you ......

if I win I'll sell you it cheap, well cheapish...


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Called into Rave today had a chat with Donovan , what a nice bloke









Had a chance to see the L1 in action , bigger machine than I expected , came away with 1kg of signature blend to try


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> Called into Rave today had a chat with Donovan , what a nice bloke
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Did you have some coffee of the L1 then?


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Did you have some coffee of the L1 then?


No it seems they use the L1 for single shots , had a nice Jagong double and the Mrs had a signature blend double (americano's)

I tasted them both black and just favoured the sig blend


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

The Brewtus looks very tempting with the choice of being able to turn off the steam boiler when not in use but what happens to the water in the steam boiler ? does it feed into the brew boiler or stay in the steam boiler and turn stagnant


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

emin-j said:


> The Brewtus looks very tempting with the choice of being able to turn off the steam boiler when not in use but what happens to the water in the steam boiler ? does it feed into the brew boiler or stay in the steam boiler and turn stagnant


Best to drain the steam boiler regularly if you aren't using it, to ensure fresh water in there, or switch it on at regular intervals and use it for hot water for long blacks or a tea or two, just to keep the water refreshed.

Just an opinion?!

Ian


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

OK Guys got the Mrs approval







Have had a good look around and have the choice of two machines either the Rocket Cellini evo v2 or the Brewtus IV R .

I do like the look of both machines slightly favouring the Brewtus having a stainless chassis and bodywork plus the double boiler seems to produce more consistent shots with less faff.

The Cellini could be useful and probably easier to sale in the future (maybe) having the option of tank or plumb in , just a shame the chassis is painted mild steel.

I have seen on youtube that the Brewtus IV R being plumb only can be run from water bottles 5/15 ltr and this could save time and money not having to fit a water filter system as the water is very hard in my area.

If I placed a 5 ltr water bottle in the cupboard above either machine and ran the feed pipe up and into the bottle would this work ok ? thinking that it would have a syphon effect once started.

What are your thoughts on any of the above Guys


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Weight of water = about 2 bar apparently so if you can get the bottle above the machine you'd be rocking


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## RagingMammoth (Sep 21, 2013)

emin-j said:


> OK Guys got the Mrs approval
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd definitely go for the Brewtus.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Weight of water = about 2 bar apparently so if you can get the bottle above the machine you'd be rocking


Cheers Guys , Brewtus it is then









jeebsy how long is the water feed pipe on the brewtus ? the bottle would be only about 12" above the top of the machine , I take it the feed is at the bottom of the Brewtus ?

jeebsy , what amount of water weighs 2 bar ? I thought bar was pressure.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Feed is at the bottom yeah that would be enough room.

Coffeechap said mounting the bottle above the machine would give two bar, i know nothing about this stuff....


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Feed is at the bottom yeah that would be enough room.
> 
> Coffeechap said mounting the bottle above the machine would give two bar, i know nothing about this stuff....


Ah OK , I was planning to have the bottle the right way up not upside down







with the hose going through a drilled cap into the water , my thinking was once the pump draws the water up and over the ' syphon ' effect should help it on its way, the machine on youtube was picking the water up with the bottle on the floor.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That's how i've got mine just now (on the floor)....hoping to have it plumbed in in the next three months or so.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Still undecided but I think I have at least discounted the Rocket models due to them having mild steel chassis rather than stainless , Bella Barista mentioned a possible rust issue with the Rockets in their review.

What do you think of the Quickmill Vetrano guys ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Has anyone got a rusted rocket on here? Not seen anyone post it as a major issue but who know

Xpenno has the Verona and loves it , not sure who else has quickmill though


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Hi Mrboots , probably nothing to worry about but I did a sheet metal apprenticeship (many years ago







) plus have worked in the motor industry over twenty years and have seen the effects of water meets mild steel







its ok with the bits you can see but deep in the case where water traces or condensation etc lurks its only a matter of time.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Finally done it







have chosen the Quick Mill Vetrano HX






Have ordered with Coffee Italia so fingers crossed


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Looks like a fantastic machine you have purchased there. nice that you can change to joystick taps as well


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Has anyone got a rusted rocket on here? Not seen anyone post it as a major issue but who know
> 
> Xpenno has the Verona and loves it , not sure who else has quickmill though


I have a 7 year old Andreja Premium which I bought of Doggycam after he won the L1 raffle. I've not had it that long, but loving it so far.

It does have rust though it is only the anti-vac cup which can /needs to be replaced. (If anyone has any suggestions on where to get one please pm me, thanks)


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The Verona is totally stainless steel so no water /rust problem:good: I also have one


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Following my ordering of the Vetrano HX from Coffee Italia I was informed a few days later the Vetrano would not be available until the 20th of April







I was offered the double boiler model for an extra £150 but even at £1600 which is a good price is more than I wanted to pay and so requested a refund . I would like to say communication with ' Matteo ' at Coffee Italia was very good and he answered my emails promptly.

So what to do now







I could wait until the 20th April but I could also purchase a Brewtus IV-R double boiler for under £1200









this is doing my head in


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If it's the machine you really really want then wait 20th April isn't that far away

. A lot of early l1 orders were longer than 3 weeks







( unlike now







)

the brewtus would is by all accounts a great machine , but you indie seem to thew wot of time and effort to choose the quickmill .


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks' Mrboots,Yes after weeks of research I made my mind up for the Vetrano only to find they wont be available until 20th April, then I read a domestic HX doesn't operate temperature wise like a commercial HX machine and maybe a double boiler machine would be better in a domestic situation.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There are many people happy on the forum with a brewtus

it's good value for money against a lot of its competitors

There is a point when too much research is a confusing thing

the vetrano , the brewtus , a rocket etc .

All will make great espresso when paired with a good fresh coffee , a good grinder and some good skillz.

Take a deep breath , if you can go and try the brewtus , I don't think you'll be disappointed .

If bought from the internet I think you are covered by distance selling laws if your unhappy ( don't take this as gospel though please ).

Once you have any of the above you can start to enjoy the coffee it makes


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Finally made the decision







have gone for the Quickmill Vetrano but this time ordered through lagondola and so far they seem very good.

They price matched coffee italia and it's on its way with fedex , been watching its progress on the fedex site , estimated delivery date 7/4/14 , and paid by paypal







fingers crossed .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Good news Emin. Let us know how you get on, and enjoy the new machine, and lots of pics when it comes !


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Good news Emin. Let us know how you get on, and enjoy the new machine, and lots of pics when it comes !


Hi Mrboots , Been interesting following the movement of the package using the FedEx tracking , machine currently at ROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE Airport, estimated delivery on Monday


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yeah tracking stuff your waiting on is always fun

your mentally going , come me on people get it loaded !!!!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Well done mate, thats a cracking machine. Good to see someone not choose a Brewtus just because it's the machine they've read about most on the forum.

I think you'll be very happy with your choice







Let us know how you get on with it!


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

gman147 said:


> Well done mate, thats a cracking machine. Good to see someone not choose a Brewtus just because it's the machine they've read about most on the forum.
> 
> I think you'll be very happy with your choice
> 
> ...


Thanks' gman







it took me long enough to come to a decision , really liked the Rocket Giotto but couldn't bring myself to pay £1400 for a machine with a painted mild steel chassis







I did come close to buying the Brewtus but I don't think the DB is for us as we rarely have a milk drink maybe the odd cappuccino , mostly Americano's and the odd espresso . Also there seems quite a few reliability issues with the Brewtus plus a rattily drip tray


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Enjoy your new machine , its looks cracking and its always good to have a variety of kit owned by people on here

But.....

Not aware of any issues with reliability from the Brewtus owners on here in the last 12 months .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Agree with the rattly drip tray but all the reliability issues seems to be on the American forums


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Sorry took your thread of point rather ....

Where is the new machine on tracking now then ?


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Sorry took your thread of point rather ....
> 
> Where is the new machine on tracking now then ?


Asleep at ROISSY CHARLES DE GAULLE


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

First the good news ! The Vetrano arrived today and its beautiful







the finish is amazing and the portafilters a work of art and weigh a ton !

Now the bad news ! It doesn't work







well its not heating the water, the pump works fine and the boiler fills ok, have checked the reset on the top of the boiler (as per user manual) and connections around it, also checked the connections to the heating element through the inspection port in the bottom of the machine and they were fine.

There are two red lights on the R/H side of the machine the top one shows when the boiler is heating (not lit) and the one below which is the boiler fill light, with water in the tank this light flashes once when the power switch is flicked on.

Have contacted the supplier,

A bit disappointed


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

That would take the wind out anyone's sails. Sorry to hear old bean.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

frasermade said:


> That would take the wind out anyone's sails. Sorry to hear old bean.


Thanks' Buddy









I'm almost happy enough just to look at it ! be nice if it made coffee though


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Oh nooo, sorry to hear that buddy. I know you did a great deal of research before you made your decision, the true test of a supplier is how they deal with these issues which do happen. Lets hope they come through and sort it.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Does it have a PID unit on it, or is it one with a pressurestat and Vibe pump?


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

That's a real bugger! hope its a simple fix for you, its a stunning machine.


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> Does it have a PID unit on it, or is it one with a pressurestat and Vibe pump?


Rotary pump if you please Sir







well that works !


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Bugger! Doom and double DOOM!


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Ar man - that's rubbish. I hope they sort it out quickly for you.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

could it be a problem with the switch? this model has a 3 way rocker switch! off, fill boiler & element on. i suppose best let dealer sort it!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

emin-j said:


> Rotary pump if you please Sir
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And PID or pressurestat, I have seen many Vetrano variants as prototypes and don't follow to closely the specs of the latest creations. Have a look at the photo (it's the last retail Vetrano I looked inside, they didn't have internal tanks then), is your pressurestat still the CEME thing as shown, or is it now a MATER XP110 or something else. lf you want pm me your phone number, I'll give you a call to try and help if you want (no mobiles, I don't call mobiles).


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Cant show you the coffee it makes


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Thanks' Daveuk , I think that's a photo of the earlier model mine has the motor vertical , not PID , I think gicar/sirai ? fitment


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

After a week of frustration and emails backwards and forwards to Italy I've finally got the Vetrano sorted









First check was the Hi pressure reset on the boiler but this was found to be OK, while the top of the machine was off I noticed the incoming power cable entered a connection block with the cables the other side of the block which takes power to the machine were the wrong way around ie live in neutral out neutral in live out









So thinking I had found the problem I couldn't wait to switch on







nothing, still no heater









An email from the Quickmill factory suggested I check the connections to the boiler as it might not be connected but this was found to be OK,

a good point with the Vetrano is the little inspection port on the bottom of the machine making it easy access to the heater connections and boiler element if this needed changing.

By now I was thinking I would return the machine and another email to lagondola, they replied the following day saying to repack the unit and they would send a courier to collect and give me a refund but the thought that it was something simple that I had overlooked made me call in reinforcements, my Son Mark who has been on holiday this week so as soon as he got home I sent him the SOS call ! Mark is a qualified electrician and is a whizz with electrics so I was confident we (he







) would find the problem.

We removed the lovely stainless bodywork right down to the lovely stainless chassis







and Mark started testing all the connections with his multimeter,he eventually traced the problem to the pressurestat and with his young eyes spotted one of contacts was out of position and was preventing the switch contacts from closing, he had found the problem









from the photo you can just see the metal contact had 'dropped' out of line and was preventing the switch from closing so not sending power to the boiler,

contact now back in position.

Magic ! the boiler light finally lit







and the coffee is superb ! Mark had the first espresso of course, that's the least I could do









Many thanks to Davec for his advice and to Carlo at lagondola for his excellent communication over the last week (they are sending me a barista kit for my trouble and I have asked for something for Mark too !

Going now to make a coffee


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Excellent you have it working and lucky for you you have the skills in the family to solve it . Did they suppliers mention of the machine had been tasted before it left them btw ?


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Excellent you have it working and lucky for you you have the skills in the family to solve it . Did they suppliers mention of the machine had been tasted before it left them btw ?


Hi Mrboots2u, yes it came with the Quality Control certificate all ticked and signed







I think the signature said Stevie Wonder


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

emin-j said:


> Hi Mrboots2u, yes it came with the Quality Control certificate all ticked and signed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol , perhaps the connection was dislodged in packing or shipping (let's be kind ).....

Really glad you go it sorted and you are enjoying the fruits ....


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Lol ,
> 
> 
> > perhaps the connection was dislodged in packing or shipping
> ...


Like the reverse wiring !


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