# Moka pot - a few questions



## MediumRoastSteam

So after 15 years or so I've decided to give the Moka pot a go again. I've read quite a bit about it, and how one should brew (using boiling water instead of cold, kill the brew process once it starts puffing by putting under the tap for a few seconds etc, etc). That's all good.

I'm using a Bialetti Venus 4 cup.

- How coarse should the coffee be? Some say filter/drip coarse, some say just coarser than espresso. Could anyone give me a hint?

- How much is a "dose" (e.g: equivalent to double espresso 18g in, 36g out) in terms of cafeine? I ask that because the funnel/basket takes roughly 16g of ground coffee, but the overall beverage weight produced is around 70g, which I'm finding much "stronger" than a standard 1:2 ratio espresso of (18g in, 36g out).

- Would a 2cup moka be better to brew for 1 person?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## MWJB

Dose in terms of caffeine will be the same as espresso, or drip...wherever you use 16g for that particular bean. Unless you're grinding way too coarse for espresso, 16:70g should be much weaker than a 18:36g shot. Moka pots let a fair bit of sediment through, which can increase the perception of strength & I personally find that it can give me the jitters.

As moka pot coffee comes out way too hot for me to drink, I often pour it into a Melitta cone with Filtropa paper, or a V60 with a Chemex paper, to remove the worst of the silt & allow it to cool before drinking.

Grind just fine enough to keep the coffee sweet, sediment reasonable & away from sharp/tart sourness.

I'd consider 16g dose to be a 1-2 person brew, I have 2 cup pots that hold that much. I wouldn't hold too much store by the stated number of cups.


----------



## Batian

Hi MediumRoastSteam (cool username!)

I have been using a Bialett Easy Moka (6 cup) for several years now. I added the 4 cup Kitty to the stable about a year ago. I use it exclusively on an induction hob.

I get good results in the Kitty from a variety of beans using the following starting points.

I get the water to near or boiling before dropping in the charged funnel and using a rolled paper towel, screwing the chamber on top. I do not overfill or under-fill.

I have a starting weight of 12gm and a set point midway on the espresso settings for the grinder. If this is not visibly enough grounds in the funnel, ie should be just a tad below the rim, I add some more. The 'just below the rim' is important.

When I see the brew ooze from the pipe I immediately drop the temperature control to 100C. When the coffee is spluttering clearish (the chamber will be half to two thirds full by now) I stop the he hob. I may at this point leave it on the hob awhile or remove, depending on how vigorous the spluttering is.

Then on drinking I make notes and recommendations to adjust grind level and weight of coffee accordingly.

With the 'Easy' it is much the same thing except I time from when the coffee first appears to the 'blonde' stage, and then to the bleep to say its done. The starting weight is 21gm

This is recorded and I adjust as I feel necessary next time round.

I do not time the Kitty....it is just to quick on the induction hob.

I also think that the 6 cup 'Easy' makes a better cupper than the 4 cup Kitty.

What I am trying to illustrate is, adjust your weight and grind so that the coffee sits just under the rim of the cup, and you will probably find you then get the best result.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Batian said:


> Hi MediumRoastSteam (cool username!)
> 
> I have been using a Bialett Easy Moka (6 cup) for several years now. I added the 4 cup Venus to the stable about a year ago. I use it exclusively on an induction hob.
> 
> I get good results in the Venus from a variety of beans using the following starting points.
> 
> I get the water to near or boiling before dropping in the charged funnel and using a rolled paper towel, screwing the chamber on top. I do not overfill or under-fill.
> 
> I have a starting weight of 12gm and a set point midway on the espresso settings for the grinder. If this is not visibly enough grounds in the funnel, ie should be just a tad below the rim, I add some more. The 'just below the rim' is important.
> 
> When I see the brew ooze from the pipe I immediately drop the temperature control to 100C. When the coffee is spluttering clearish (the chamber will be half to two thirds full by now) I stop the he hob. I may at this point leave it on the hob awhile or remove, depending on how vigorous the spluttering is.
> 
> Then on drinking I make notes and recommendations to adjust grind level and weight of coffee accordingly.
> 
> With the 'Easy' it is much the same thing except I time from when the coffee first appears to the 'blonde' stage, and then to the bleep to say its done. The starting weight is 21gm
> 
> This is recorded and I adjust as I feel necessary next time round.
> 
> I do not time the Venus....it is just to quick on the induction hob.
> 
> I also think that the 6 cup 'Easy' makes a better cupper than the 4 cup Venus.
> 
> What I am trying to illustrate is, adjust your weight and grind so that the coffee sits just under the rim of the cup, and you will probably find you then get the best result.


Hi, thanks for the feedback.

It may be that is early days, but what I am noticing is that I am getting very little beverage.

For instance, the chamber doesn't seem to fill anywhere near 2/3rds full. By the time it starts spluttering, I get between 70ml and 90ml of liquid.

I've been doing pretty much everything as you describe. How much beverage (weight or ml) do you get out of your Venus 4 cup when you follow your routine? Also, how long does it take (roughly) from the first ooze to the end?

Thanks for the advice and pointers, I appreciate it.


----------



## Batian

I will check it out tomorrow am. Please note correction of model...I am using a 4 cup Bialetti Kitty. They will be much the same performance wise? My instruction leaflet shows the same bumph for the whole range of stainless steel Mokas under the collective banner of 'Elegance'.

As a rough guide now, 230 ml in and 170 ml out. There is always a little water left in the base. This is an intentional safety feature.


----------



## MWJB

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi, thanks for the feedback.
> 
> It may be that is early days, but what I am noticing is that I am getting very little beverage.
> 
> For instance, the chamber doesn't seem to fill anywhere near 2/3rds full. By the time it starts spluttering, I get between 70ml and 90ml of liquid.
> 
> I've been doing pretty much everything as you describe. How much beverage (weight or ml) do you get out of your Venus 4 cup when you follow your routine? Also, how long does it take (roughly) from the first ooze to the end?
> 
> Thanks for the advice and pointers, I appreciate it.


From my pots that take a 18g dose, I get just over 80g out.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

MWJB said:


> From my pots that take a 18g dose, I get just over 80g out.


Cool! Thanks for this. I'm not too many miles off then


----------



## Rhys

I have an induction Moka Pot..










I use a grind similar to a V60 and use an wetted AeroPress filter stuck to the filter on the top half of the Moka. This stops sediment getting through and produces a cleaner cup.

I dose at around 18g for 300g of water.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Rhys said:


> I have an induction Moka Pot..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I use a grind similar to a V60 and use an wetted AeroPress filter stuck to the filter on the top half of the Moka. This stops sediment getting through and produces a cleaner cup.
> 
> I dose at around 18g for 300g of water.


After what MWJB said, the Aeropress filter came to mind straight away. Does it fit perfectly on yours or do you have some gap? If you do have a gap, then it *may* fit mine well.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I just checked, it won't fit out of the box on mine. Seems like the Aeropress filter is 64mm diameter, whereas my moka pot funnel is 53mm.


----------



## Rhys

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I just checked, it won't fit out of the box on mine. Seems like the Aeropress filter is 64mm diameter, whereas my moka pot funnel is 53mm.


The filter fits mine perfectly. On the top part it overlaps evenly onto the rubber gasket ring.


----------



## Jval

I use a moka pot for my morning coffee. A 1-3 cup bialetti clone. Everything is eyeballed - water up to the valve, and one aeropress scoop of beans. Grind is fine, but coarser than espresso.

So, no idea how much coffee, no idea how much water, but I know I get around 100ml out.

Despite the inaccuracy, it makes a wonderful brew.

I tend to froth up some milk with an electric whisk and make a ghetto latte. Excellent!


----------



## CoffeeRat

To obtain proper extraction one should fill filter basket full or close to it. That is why it's important to choose correct volume/size of your moka.

Here are some italian tips






https://caffettiere.blogspot.com/2017/09/alla-ricerca-del-caffe-perfetto-con-la.html

http://caffettiere.blogspot.it/2017/08/alla-ricerca-del-caffe-perfetto-con-la_16.html


----------



## Batian

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hi, thanks for the feedback.
> 
> It may be that is early days, but what I am noticing is that I am getting very little beverage.
> 
> For instance, the chamber doesn't seem to fill anywhere near 2/3rds full. By the time it starts spluttering, I get between 70ml and 90ml of liquid.
> 
> I've been doing pretty much everything as you describe. How much beverage (weight or ml) do you get out of your Venus 4 cup when you follow your routine? Also, how long does it take (roughly) from the first ooze to the end?
> 
> Thanks for the advice and pointers, I appreciate it.


Here are the weights and measures.

220g water

13g coffee

169g yield (some water remains in the boiling pot by design.)

Time from first dribble appearing from pipe to dying splutters, 1 minute 21 seconds.

Using the 4 cup Kitty on an induction hob I follow the Bialetti instructions and heat on high until the first dribble appears. I then drop the temperature to 100C cutting it completely shortly after, and/or give it a little more heat if and when I think it necessary. Usually there is enough heat in the hob to carry the brew through OK.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Batian said:


> Here are the weights and measures.
> 
> 220g water
> 
> 13g coffee
> 
> 169g yield (some water remains in the boiling pot by design.)
> 
> Time from first dribble appearing from pipe to dying splutters, 1 minute 21 seconds.
> 
> Using the 4 cup Kitty on an induction hob I follow the Bialetti instructions and heat on high until the first dribble appears. I then drop the temperature to 100C cutting it completely shortly after, and/or give it a little more heat if and when I think it necessary. Usually there is enough heat in the hob to carry the brew through OK.


Interesting ... today I did it again, getting better results I must say:

19g of coffee in (to the rim of the basket)

Water up to valve (boiling water)

85g beverage yield

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## Batian

MediumRoastSteam

You might like to try adjusting the grind so that the funnel is filled to about 1/16" below the rim. The coffee needs to expand, and the whole physics is altered if it can not.

I find that usually means a weight in the range of 12 to 14 grams. I usually start at 12 grams and by a couple of goes with a new batch of coffee I have got it sussed to my palate.

Going finer does mean you can get more coffee into the filter, but it then affects the rate of flow and the general physics of the device. And of course, the more coffee, the more of the water is absorbed. This may account for the differences in figures?

But taste is subjective.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Batian said:


> MediumRoastSteam
> 
> You might like to try adjusting the grind so that the funnel is filled to about 1/16" below the rim. The coffee needs to expand, anfd the whole physics is altered if it can not.
> 
> I find that usually means a weight in the range of 12 to 14 grams. I usually start at 12 grams and by a couple of goes with a new batch of coffee I have got it sussed to my palate.
> 
> Going finer does mean you can get more coffee into the filter, but it then affects the rate of flow and the general physics of the device. And of course, the more coffee, the more of the water is absorbed. This may account for the differences in figures?
> 
> But taste is subjective.


Interesting. I'll try that then. Thanks!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Batian, this are the tutorial and videos I've been going by, you might have seen them before:

https://www.stumptowncoffee.com/blog/brew-guides-moka-pot


----------



## Batian

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Batian, this are the tutorial and videos I've been going by, you might have seen them before:
> 
> I had not seen these particular videos before, but I have seen similar and read written articles on the matter.
> 
> In the second clip, at 6.25 min and on it is very much a summary of what I and others have said in this thread, and not surprisingly like the instructions from Bialetti?
> 
> The first video is contradicting some of the Bialetti instructions, I presume to get a stronger shot from the Moka.
> 
> For me, I tend to generally stick to the makers instructions and if that does not produce what I want, I would change kit. Sort of, don't ask/expect the kit to do something it was not designed or evolved for, if you know what I mean.
> 
> If you have been following the suggestions of second video, I am surprised that you have not been getting a good cuppa. What is going wrong?
> 
> Are you using tap water in a hard water area? I switched to bottled water and the change was terrific.
> 
> Of course the other two big challenges are the coffee itself and the grind.
> 
> Bialetti's recommendations are as my (and A. N. Other) posts above... a medium grind slightly coarse than an espresso grind.
> 
> How old is the Moka? Could it be in need of a new seal, filter and clean between the filter and funnel. They can get awfully gungy up there!
> 
> I flush mine out every few weeks with lemon juice, followed by heating through with a couple of goes with clean water and then a throw away 'making' with coffee.
> 
> I have also read that the argument for preheating the water is stronger with the larger pots owing to the heating time and therefore the amount of time the coffee is over the heating water. I suggest an induction hob could be a useful aid if this is to be true. They really are blisteringly quick!


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

PS: I'm not saying my coffee is bad . As I am new to Moka Pot, I just want to know more what people do  So I'm trying different things based on what people say and then see which one works for me.

Moka Pot is brand new btw. Thanks!


----------



## Batian

MediumRoastSteam said:


> PS: I'm not saying my coffee is bad . As I am new to Moka Pot, I just want to know more what people do  So I'm trying different things based on what people say and then see which one works for me.
> 
> Moka Pot is brand new btw. Thanks!


Oh great! I thought you were running into some taste problems. I am sure if you keep jiggling the grind/weight by small increments to fill the basket accordingly, you will develop a feel for your Moka and be able hit the sweet spot fairly quick into a new coffee.

Best.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Another question here if I may:

How tight do you screw your Moka Pot? I have a Bialetti Venus (Stainless Steel) and find that, unless I screw it really tight (I mean, really tight, to the point that over a few weeks I actually injured my thumbs' ligaments!) I get a very mediocre cup of coffee, as the pressure leaks slightly. The consequence is that there isn't enough pressure build up and one would get 70ml of beverage at most - including the splutters - whereas if screwed tightly I usually stop at 90ml beverage and there's plenty more coming if I don't.

It's a 3 cup Bialetti Venus, bought brand new a couple of months ago. I keep it very clean and checked the silicone gasket. It appears to be perfect.

Thanks.


----------



## Inspector

I have bialetti dama and needs to be tightened real good otherwise it leaks too. Gasket seems in very good condition as well


----------



## Beth71

Inspector said:


> I have bialetti dama and needs to be tightened real good otherwise it leaks too. Gasket seems in very good condition as well


I don't have a Dama, just a classic Bialetti moka pot, but I find that putting a little olive oil on the thread of the base helps to prevent leaks.


----------



## Inspector

Can we use food grade silicone? The ones they sell on ebay https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F222755731397

I wanted to get one of these to put on the threads of coffee grinder for smoother operation of finer or coarser grind setting. Would that be suitable for that too?


----------



## Obnic

Shouldn't be an effort to tighten. Also the safety valve should open before the seal leaks. It's important to make sure seal is clean and no grinds are on the rim of the boiler before you screw it shut. If yours is that much effort it must be time for a new seal ring.

I've never seen the compellingly argument for silicon. I think rubber is more dependable.

Also, check your grind. Moka requires a coarser grind than espresso. Otherwise you restrict the flow.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Obnic said:


> Shouldn't be an effort to tighten. Also the safety valve should open before the seal leaks. It's important to make sure seal is clean and no grinds are on the rim of the boiler before you screw it shut. If yours is that much effort it must be time for a new seal ring.
> 
> I've never seen the compellingly argument for silicon. I think rubber is more dependable.
> 
> Also, check your grind. Moka requires a coarser grind than espresso. Otherwise you restrict the flow.


Thanks. I think I know what's going on. The Bialetti Venus is not ergonomic. Unlike the traditional design, the Venus is all round, cylindrical, so there's nowhere to make a good grip, unlike the traditional model with a spout and an hexagonal shape.

If I use a silicone pad for instance, it's much easier to tighten.

Also, the pot is brand new, and therefore the seal. If it's not tighten enough however, pressure will leak from the seal and therefore there will be not enough pressure to actually push the water up.

Why would the safety valve open before the seal leaks if the seal between boiler and the upper part of the pot is not tight enough? Doesn't make any sense.


----------



## Obnic

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Why would the safety valve open before the seal leaks if the seal between boiler and the upper part of the pot is not tight enough? Doesn't make any sense.


That's me not being clear. A correctly sealed pot shouldn't leak before the safety valve opens.


----------



## The Asgard

I have the 6 cup Venus and don't suffer from leaks and no need to over tighten it. Could be an issue with the pot.


----------



## The Asgard

Just about cracked the Moka now and producing a consistent sweet, lots a flavour with no bitterness cup of coffee.

I have the 6 cup Venus and here's what I do for a mug of americano. 60/40 water /coffee, adjust to suit.

Grind is just less than espresso, what I would class fine. I use 18 grams

I boil water to 97'c, fill just under the valve. Drop basket in.

On our induction I set to 6, coffee start to come out within a minute. Drop to 5 once you see the coffee. Remove once it starts to bubble. Once you see the coffee the processs is complete with 30 seconds.

What causes the bitterness is high temps and over extraction. The above method is quick and simple.


----------



## jj-x-ray

I can't wait to try my mokka again when I get my grinder. My brews were really bitter, requiring some extra water to take the edge off


----------



## Brewtime

After going around in circles through the various types of machines, Pod, Filter, Bean to cup etc i decided to save some money and try the Moka Pot, after all , all those Italians can't be wrong !

i bought a Moka Express Coffee Maker 270ml (6 Cup)

This sounds like a very stupid question (and probably is) but i can't see a definitive answert anywhere..

Baring in mind it says its a 6 cup machine, i cant see that anywhere near enough coffee is produced to make 6 decent cups of coffee, probably more like two decent cups. So how much liquid should be used in a typical cup of coffee ? Any advise very welcome.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Brewtime said:


> After going around in circles through the various types of machines, Pod, Filter, Bean to cup etc i decided to save some money and try the Moka Pot, after all , all those Italians can't be wrong !
> 
> i bought a Moka Express Coffee Maker 270ml (6 Cup)
> 
> This sounds like a very stupid question (and probably is) but i can't see a definitive answert anywhere..
> 
> Baring in mind it says its a 6 cup machine, i cant see that anywhere near enough coffee is produced to make 6 decent cups of coffee, probably more like two decent cups. So how much liquid should be used in a typical cup of coffee ? Any advise very welcome.


 Welcome to the forum.

I think it means 6 cup of espresso (single). So you are talking really 30ml per cup.


----------



## Brewtime

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> I think it means 6 cup of espresso (single). So you are talking really 30ml per cup.


 wow, thanks for the quick response

So i should be able to get 6 single expressos, i just cant see how i could make 6 long drinks by adding milk, ike i say to be anywhere near strong enough i think i would only get two small mugs of coffee. Am i doing something wrong, or do i just like strong coffee ?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Brewtime said:


> wow, thanks for the quick response
> 
> So i should be able to get 6 single expressos, i just cant see how i could make 6 long drinks by adding milk, ike i say to be anywhere near strong enough i think i would only get two small mugs of coffee. Am i doing something wrong, or do i just like strong coffee ?


This is the thing: It's not espresso. Do as you please. See how it works for you. Just ignore the 6 cup bit.

I do tend to find it's quite a potent beverage though, very strong!

In my opinion, if you like with milk, just use 2/3s of it. If you like strong, go for the lot. As black coffee, good enough to share between to people.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ozzyjohn

Brewtime said:


> After going around in circles through the various types of machines, Pod, Filter, Bean to cup etc i decided to save some money and try the Moka Pot, after all , all those Italians can't be wrong !
> 
> i bought a Moka Express Coffee Maker 270ml (6 Cup)
> 
> This sounds like a very stupid question (and probably is) but i can't see a definitive answert anywhere..
> 
> Baring in mind it says its a 6 cup machine, i cant see that anywhere near enough coffee is produced to make 6 decent cups of coffee, probably more like two decent cups. So how much liquid should be used in a typical cup of coffee ? Any advise very welcome.


 We used a 6 cup Bialetti for years to make coffee for self and wife - and when she stopped drinking coffee, I moved to a 3 cup Bialetti Venus (much easier to keep clean than the aluminium version, but a little trickier to do up tight enough - don't use the handle to provide leverage, it won't end well). I've always like the Bialetti for its simplicity - fill basket with coffee, fill base with water to the valve, assemble and go. The only variable to deal with is the grind of the coffee.

I find the three cup produces a (to my taste) nice strong coffee which is drinkable immediately if I add a little cold water to to it.

Regards,
John


----------



## ChilledMatt

I use a Bialetti 9 cup every few days to make a batch of "concentrated coffee" that I put into a flask and keep in the fridge.

I put boiled water into the warmed base then drop the coffee in and tighten, this way it is only on the heat for a minute or two before extraction starts. I keep the heat on until about 15 seconds after the coffee begins to show and put the pot into a pan of cool water as soon as the extraction is finished. My daughter then uses this to make cold lattes for a couple of days. Using this technique seems to have greatly reduced the bitterness I was experiencing. She can't be bothered to learn how to use the espresso machine, kids eh!

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk


----------



## Brewtime

Thank you for the replies, i think im slowly coming to terms with it, after a little experimentation. My first when i used almost all the pot for one long strong coffee and kept me awake all night ! I think its more potent than it tastes ! Now im getting 3 decent cups of 2/3 milk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I've added an aeropress paper on top of the coffee, so between the upper part and the coffee, so no sediments go to the upper chamber. I was impressed with the result!


----------



## slammy

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I've added an aeropress paper on top of the coffee, so between the upper part and the coffee, so no sediments go to the upper chamber. I was impressed with the result!


 Oh nice tip, I'm going to give this a go!


----------



## slammy

Brewtime said:


> wow, thanks for the quick response
> 
> So i should be able to get 6 single expressos, i just cant see how i could make 6 long drinks by adding milk, ike i say to be anywhere near strong enough i think i would only get two small mugs of coffee. Am i doing something wrong, or do i just like strong coffee ?


 @Brewtime I went through a similar dilemma, I was gifted a 3-4 cup bialetti, I didn't realise I was technically drinking 4 shots, I'm usually the only one drinking coffee, so when I realised this I tried to put less grind in, but that messed up the strength and taste! I'm now filling up the basket level again and just have half in the morning, and cool the remainder for ice coffee like @ChilledMatt 's well caffeinated daughter 😆 . Now I can start to focus on getting a good consistent taste.

When using moka, whats the go to for milk? I have a plunge metal jug thing, which gets very frothy but when I pour, the milk separates so its not blended? maybe I'm doing it wrong or i need to one of those wands....


----------



## rob177palmer

Sorry to hijack an old thread, but as a number of knowledgeable members have already contributed it seemed a reasonable place to post!

From a coffee perspective, I had a disappointing holiday week this summer: I packed my Kinu M47 and an old Bialetti Moka pot that had been gathering dust. No matter what I tried, I couldn't hide the strong hint of aluminium imparted by the moka pot. So I recently threw some money at the problem and bought a 6-cup Alessi 9090.

I have been trying irregularly to get to grips with this during home working days, to avoid keeping the LR hot all day long.

I filmed today's efforts in the hope that I might get some feedback on how this looks compared to what others are managing to produce from similar kit.

I used what I think is the standard method:



Fill to vent with hot water


Heat water to boiling on hot


turn hob down to minimum


Grind 25g coffee to fill basket


level and tap lightly


fit basket and top to base of moka pot


keep hob on low and even heat


Yield was 150 ml


Coffee was a lovely fruity Guatemalan from Crankhouse. (Appreciate this means nothing for absolute comparisons, but....) ground on the EKs at 1.5; I have been grinding at 0.45 for the LR.

The brew really did taste excellent to me, different from brewing as straight espresso on the LR - (from the Crankhouse tasting notes) less "strawberry", more "cherry" maybe, but very enjoyable indeed and no hint of aluminium flavours!!

Brew took 2 minutes and looked consistent.

How does that timing compare?






I threw in a short video of the pour - again - visibly, does this look similar level of dissolved solids?






Keen to hear any observations, as have never manged to find a moka pot brew out in a cafe, so really only have my own learnings and observations to go on.


----------



## rob177palmer

okay,

So another question, please: Can someone please explain to me what impacts the coffee yield?

I fancied another go this afternoon, so just brewed up another pot. Everything the same as before EXCEPT for the following:



slightly finer grind (EK1.3)


Slightly higher gas


Brew time was 1 min 45s from first drips this time. Smooth flow, visibly more body to the drink BUT only 105 yield?l!!

Come at this from an espresso mindset, to only get 70% of the yield from pot 1 is too much variance, but I don't know what has caused it.

As before, I pulled the pot off the heat and doused in cold water once the spurting started.

The coffee is less pleasant. Very strong almost sickly cherry taste. I have to admit I prefer the greater body to the drink.

Thoughts / help appreciated!


----------



## rob177palmer

So I think that the grind seems to impact yield - too fine seems to result in a small yield.

I can't work out why this might be tho.

Reducing the temp once the coffee starts to show seems to help also.

Latest attempt, with a Kenyan bean that is superb fruity notes on my LR is, frankly, terrible and little more than a caffeine injection



Work to perfect this continues!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Catlady101

🌟*Quiz time for the group.......*

I was wondering about this - grind vs moka pot.

I have faffled about with my grinder and have it different for different beans, noted so I know which one is which, and as I prefer the caramel / roast/chocolate notes I tend to find I need cold water for a lot of the beans I have tried so far, unless dark roast where boiling water works well for me.

I have also altered my water using the peak water jug and that did seem to have a positive effect, I live in a terribly hard water area .

I also turn down the heat once the coffee comes through at the beginning, again trying to lengthen the extraction time to reap the rewards of the darker notes and avoid fruity acidic coffe which is not my bag, and also douse it in a bowl of cold water to stop it going to far to stop any bitterness creeping in.

So I was thinking about the yuletide pixies🧚‍♀️ and what they might bring me (family requires a list as I am a picky old thing) and initially thought of upgrading my mokka pot but now am thinking about my grinder as, bless it, I really cannot get it to provide an even grind - am presently having to sieve the grind and then nudge it across a paper towel before weighing it and adding to the pot ( saw a video suggesting this and for me it made a massive difference in consistency of my brews) but am not looking for them to spend oodles on one just because it can grind espresso - which I don't need.

*Q1...*

So, for all the marvelous wizards🧙‍♂️🧙‍♀️ out there, without going for the best of the best in manual just because it is awesome at all things, ...what can I get away with, that will provide consistency but only needs a coarser grind because it is only going in a mokka pot and not being blasted at 9bar and all that??

I am stumped - so many choices. Initially I thought a conical burr would be good starting point but having read more it seems stainless steel is better, and something about bearings for consistency?

*Q2...*

Do I need steel if I am only grinding for me at the moment, and only for the coarser mokka pot?

is one type of steel burr/blade better than another for consistency and even grind for mokka pot usage?

*Q3...*

Is it truley the bearings that provide the consistency I look for ( and also please, an even grind so that I am not detroying rain forests in my attempt to get the chunky and fine bits out at the end.) and are one type better than another?

*Bonus points...*

also - will upgrading my grinder really help me as a simple mokka pot brewer or is that something that is more relevant to more complex coffee processes like pour over/filter and espresso?

*Hint...*

also - I really like the look of the felgrind but that is waaaay out of the price range for pixies, if we can keep it under £100 they will be quite grateful.

Ideas welcome😺


----------



## Stu Beck

Look at 1zpresso JX or smaller Q models. The price is in USD so might come in under £100 shipped directly?

Or the Aergrind/speed from MBK who produce the Feldgrind...

Regardless of brew method (I don't use a mokka) more consistent grinds will only be a good thing. Steel burrs are much faster than munching through beans than the ceramic ones on cheaper models, bearings and more solid construction also justify the jump in price imo.


----------



## Catlady101

Stu Beck said:


> Or the Aergrind/speed from MBK who produce the Feldgrind.


 Thank-you for your reply, I did look at the aergrind and the speedgring and the fact that next week the feld47 is on sale but then I looked at the videos and how hard it is to get the coffee pot off the bottom and read the less than stellar reviews of the MBK customer service ( or complete lack thereof) and was put off.

I like the look of the new timemore (TIMO) Chestnut X, but that is soooo expensive , but such lovely burrs, well back to the t'internet for more research.


----------



## Catlady101

So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction...

An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies as they much prefer to give art than - well, " a bit of kitchen equipment" as one of them so wonderfully put it😅

So left to my own devices I completely moved away from the aergrind @Stu Beck, just becasue if something goes wrong, I would really like some help, and after falling down the video rabbit hole of @DavecUK (was watching your video from the steam thing, and then another and then came across the reiew you did of the JX series) combined with Amazon doint virtually £50 off the simple JX (not the pro) ...well I just bought one, we'll see if I can get a proper use of it, I am so new to all of this I might not get the best of it for a while, but I have so , so very much to learn, I think it will do me for a bit.

Thank-you for your help, as always, you are super helpful.


----------



## DavecUK

JX is effectively the same grinder as the JX Pro (just has the different adjuster bit on it), it has less fine adjustment, although I believe they recently added a few more adjustment points on the JX, at least that's what one of my subscribers said.


----------



## Stu Beck

Good choice @Catlady101 - they're excellent quality and a pleasure to use 👍


----------



## Folinho

Catlady101 said:


> So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction...
> 
> An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies as they much prefer to give art than - well, " a bit of kitchen equipment" as one of them so wonderfully put it😅
> 
> So left to my own devices I completely moved away from the aergrind @Stu Beck, just becasue if something goes wrong, I would really like some help, and after falling down the video rabbit hole of @DavecUK (was watching your video from the steam thing, and then another and then came across the reiew you did of the JX series) combined with Amazon doint virtually £50 off the simple JX (not the pro) ...well I just bought one, we'll see if I can get a proper use of it, I am so new to all of this I might not get the best of it for a while, but I have so , so very much to learn, I think it will do me for a bit.
> 
> Thank-you for your help, as always, you are super helpful.


 I have been thinking a lot about the grinder... I created a post and with everyone's opinion decided to either get the wilfa or a hand grinder.

After speaking with my missus we decided to go for a manual and also got scared with all the coments about aergrind so after checking and reading I decided to go for the JX as the comandante is almost double the price but I was thinking there could be a Black Friday discount? Is it worth to wait? Or shall I go while I can?

There are also good comments about the JS but it is more difficult to get as is mainly for Asian market.


----------



## Folinho

DavecUK said:


> JX is effectively the same grinder as the JX Pro (just has the different adjuster bit on it), it has less fine adjustment, although I believe they recently added a few more adjustment points on the JX, at least that's what one of my subscribers said.


 yeah, as far as I read, there was a black model with 24 and now it went to 30. JX-pro has 40 and a different system to adjust if I am not wrong..


----------



## Stu Beck

Folinho said:


> There are also good comments about the JS but it is more difficult to get as is mainly for Asian market


 Ordering direct from the 1z website was straightforward if you like that model? Delivered by FedEx in about 1 week, around £20 in import tax and fees.



Folinho said:


> could be a Black Friday discount?


 Maybe, but seeing as demand for home brewing equipment is so high this year I wouldn't be too hopeful of a bargain! Not too long to wait now...


----------



## Folinho

Last time I checked was "not available" in the website.. I read about sending and email to them but it is gonna be more tricky with the taxes when it gets here, plus I am a newbie on this, it's gonna be my first hand grinder and I think there will be more JX users to get help from... thanks anyways 

I am gonna se around these days if I go for it or I wait till BF. @Catlady101, let us know when u get it and how it goes  Enjoy it !


----------



## Catlady101

Folinho said:


> I have been thinking a lot about the grinder... I created a post and with everyone's opinion decided to either get the wilfa or a hand grinder.
> 
> After speaking with my missus we decided to go for a manual and also got scared with all the coments about aergrind so after checking and reading I decided to go for the JX as the comandante is almost double the price but I was thinking there could be a Black Friday discount? Is it worth to wait? Or shall I go while I can?
> 
> There are also good comments about the JS but it is more difficult to get as is mainly for Asian market.


 I had the same dilemma, I thought should I wait for black friday - it is only a few weeks away, but then when I went to look at the same one (jx, not pro) on other retailer sites it was £50 more than on Amazon, and well, I just went for it.

Apparently it is coming from America ( bought on amazon.co.uk but they are shipping from the US) and should be with me in two weeks from order, so that is pretty fast I think, and also if I have any problems ,with buying from Amazon I can always return it easily.

I will be looking at it in the sales, just because I would like to know if I made the right choice, and kicking myself if I did not, but have, in the past, noticed something I have on my wishlist, when in the sale, was the same price as when I had added it months before, it appears it had gotten more expensive just before the sale?

With the Aergrind, if Knock were offering proper support, I think that would have swung it for me, as then it is in the UK, and parts etc available easily as opposed to it coming (technically) from an Asian company with no presence in the UK, but I have read some reviews of the service from Knock for the aergrind, the feldgrind and the aerspeed, that suggests that their grinders are really well made, usually, but if you have a problem the company is rather pants at getting back to anyone let alone providing support, so that took it out of the running for me. That may or may not be the case but just the idea that I could be sitting there unable to use my wonderful hand machine simply becuse no one replied, put me off.

The timemore chestnut x is one I considered simply because it has really good reviews as far as functionality, and for me it is good looking, but again, the price is much higher. Timemore (or TiMo as I have seen the company called on some youtube videos) does sell through UK based companies - roasters and suppliers of coffee equipment, so that would provide a local team to offer help if needed. For me, for my abilities now, it was too expensive a buy, its abilities would be wasted on me right now, as I know nothing.

hope that helps give you an idea of my thought processes in choosing the izpress JX (not pro one) for mokka pot brewing- I did not choose the pro one, as I am not looking to make espresso now, or in any near future ( but I would really like one of those 9bar stove tops - at some point in the future) and for me, my skills, and what I am doing with my coffee set up - the JX seems, on paper, to be the next step for me - will be interested how the settings on the JX compare to my little grinder I have now, and if I can get some consistency out of it, will probably need to practice and definitely adjust grind, water, and brew times😁


----------



## Folinho

I am really scared of waiting and becoming more expensive or out of stock but I think I am going to wait and if that goes wrong I can always delay a bit the purchase... or ending up buying another grinder.

Timemore G1? I thought about the slim to fit in the AP but I kinda like the idea of bigger and faster now.

With Knock, really like them and nearly bought them when I saw the 2nd minor with the discount but had the same concern and as the timemore, like JX's speed.

We can maybe talk in the future about our JX´s and moka recipes hehehhee


----------



## Catlady101

Quick update - the price on amazon has today gone up by £20 - I am assuming this is in line with Black Friday so that they can discount it? Ever the cynic me😁


----------



## Catlady101

@Folinho

Update:

There are 2 issues with buying from Amazon as I have done;

1: The price has gone up by £20ish so is now £120, plus £6.00 prime shipping, Plus the import fee that amazon hold in case of import fees ( you get it back if not used, or if only partially used you get partial refund) of £21 - makes it about the same price as just buying it in the UK.

This may change back after black Friday but that leads me onto ..

2: I bought mine on the 14th from amazon UK, sold by amazon UK, fulfilled by Amazon global, delivered from Amazon in the USA. The delivery date set is between the 25th and 30th of November.

I logged in just now to see the tracking and if it had cleared customs yet, and the tracking is saying it hasn't even been dispatched yet!

I got Amazon to call me ( you have to go through a multitude of steps and dropdowns that are not geared for this) and the helpful lady (love that they are taking calls at this hour) said that this is something amazon global needs to deal with but that they are not open 24/7 and that she would arrange a call back tomorrow.

Now, it may be that the dispatchers forgot to enter it as dispatched and therefore there is no tracking information, but it may be that they have a stock / shipping issue and that it really hasn't been dispatched a week after I paid for it. The Llady on the phone thouhgt it odd as she would have expected it to be dispatched on the next day - 15th - but until tomorrow - no clue.

SO...

I may well end upcancelling my order with Amazon after all and buying it in the UK at the higher price ( I paid £99 ish all in ), if they do indeed have stock / shipment issues.

I mention al lthis detail in case it is useful, it may be that you are fine with the faffle or it may be that this would drive you potty but thought I should let you know as you might be interested in one yourself and did not want to lead you downthe wrong path by initially siggesting amazon would be an easy option ( due to prime delivery and free returns)


----------



## Folinho

Thanks a lot for the update!

I have been regreting a bit lately cause as you said it is £20 more expensive and the shipping went from 6 to 12... but so sad to hear that is not as easy as we'd all expect through amazon.

I was waiting for BF and see how it was on amazon or get it either from aliexpress or 1zpresso website directly.. cause in the UK the cheapest I found it was £150

Hope tomorrow you get good news


----------



## Catlady101

@ Folihno - it arrived!!! - I was going to put pictures in the "What did thePostie bring you today" section, but it now says " this tpic is closed to further replies"?? just let me check it is not something I am doing ( error behind keyboard as my son calls it).

It was shipped Tuesday am US time, and got here about an hour ago.

I have yet to make any coffee with it - will update you then, am fiddling with setting right now😺


----------



## Folinho

So glad to hear that!!!  10 days, right?

I also bought it yesterday but in Aliexpress due to the increase in price on Amazon...

I will let you know when it arrives and how...

Enjoy it !


----------



## Catlady101

Catlady101 said:


> this tpic is closed to further replies


 @Folinho - it was not me after all - the new place is here ( and I have uploaded photos for you as best I can)

what did the postie bring you Part Deux


----------



## Catlady101

Folinho said:


> I will let you know when it arrives and how...


 yes please - it would be super helpful to compare the two side by side ( the process not hte grinder as hopefully they are identical) so other can see what might suit them best - and also for me as haveonly ever bought one thing from Aliexpress ( a set of lock picks) and it took 3 months and a credit card payment retraction to get the item - but that was years and years ago, and I keep seeing things there i would like and am too chicken to try again.

Thank-you


----------



## Folinho

Well, the only time I ordered from aliexpress with my friends we had problems as well (2010).. so I haven't ordered there ever ever but my sistes does quite regular so I asked her to proceed.

It will be send to the small city I am from, so that could make things slower comparing to send it to London..

With nowadays conversion rate and vat+taxes will be around 111Gbp, pretty much as it was on Amazon before.

The other thing is the cat, I don't know if the one from aliexpress also comes with the optional cat hahahhahaa. Love the picture


----------



## Folinho

@Catlady101 How you doing with the new adquisition? As good as expected?

I just saw it on Amazon and it is only available from another seller.. and it'd be 190 + 15 delivery...


----------



## Catlady101

Folinho said:


> @Catlady101 How you doing with the new adquisition? As good as expected?
> 
> I just saw it on Amazon and it is only available from another seller.. and it'd be 190 + 15 delivery...


 I am having fun dialling in my new settings!

so - I have a spreadsheet, yes I am one of those, for all the grind settings and water volume ratio, water type, temperature of brewing, time of brewing etc that I made up using my old grinder.

Now I am having to change everything, because the new grinder has so many more settings, and , the best bit for me, is when it grinds, it grinds far more evenly than my little cheap one I had before. No more sifting, and rolling on paper towels to remove the chunky grinds and the fines!

I am only on coffee bean number 3 so far, as I am having to try out different grind settings, AND different brew settings, zbut so far I have not deviated too far from the recommendations on the card that came with it ( it says 1:18 - which is one full turn from "0" which in my case is 6, plus 9 clicks) -one coffee is that, one is 2 full turns and the third - I am not sure , I like it at 2 full turns and 1 click, but I tried going the other way and liked it also at 1:16 (so one full turn and 8 clicks), but it is a coffee that I had been struggling with before on my old grinder, so I have ordered some more of my most used coffee, and will experiment with that first and then go back to this Brazilian, which is driving me potty, I can feel there is more to the flavour, but am struggling to get those notes to come forward past the roast.

So - as you can see, getting a new grinder means brewing and drinking and tinkering a lot😁

I did try just one revolution - boy was that difficult to grind, and it was no good for me or the bean, over extracted right away - you could smell it as soon as it percolated through - yuch!

so - the finer you go, the tougher it is to grind - that is you need to put more welly into it.

Also - the grind, when I find one I like - takes a little longer than my cheapie grinder, but then I am getting all the beans ground exactly the same, not some right, some too big, and some too fine - goldilocks style😄

You will have so much fun when you get yours - just have plenty of beans on hand!

Also - don;t throw your old grinder away - compare and contrast as they say - I found it super helpful to brew what I used to , and hte new grind side by side to compare.


----------



## Folinho

Thanks for all the info!

I never had a hand grinder before. My previous grinder was a KG79 and sold it with the machine as a set... I will have even more things to play with and to learn! hehehehe


----------



## davhei

Hi everybody,

I recently changed my Bialetti Venus 10-cup that I've been using for the past ten years for an Alessi 9090 6-cup. Although I don't see myself as a coffee aficionado it really got me thinking how to get the new process right for a nice balanced cup.

I use an induction hob and the coffee I used for experimenting was normal off the shelf filter ground dark roast (Zoega's Skånerost - a Swedish blend).

After a lot of experimenting this is what I came up with, perhaps it can be of use for someone out there.

1 Fill base with cold water just to the level that the water touches the lower edge of the valve.

2 Fill funnel up to the edge with coffee. Tapping the side of the funnel as needed to smooth it out and avoid spilling. No tamping.

3 Put pot on induction hob with the lid open.

4 And here is the key procedure: Max setting on induction hob. When coffee starts to flow, wait 15 seconds after the bottom of the top tank has been covered with coffee, then turn off the induction hob. Leave the pot on the (turned off) hob until it no longer flows.

5 Gently stir the coffee in the pot with a small spoon to even out the layers.

Pour into cup and serve.

I was astonished that the execution of step 4 in particular made such a noticable difference.

Too short a time before turning off the heat produced a low bitterness cup but sour (under extracted?) as well as giving a lower temperature when drinking. The cup was decidedly small as well.

Too long before turning the heat off gave a less sour cup, good temperature in the beverage and a good volume but a distinct and unpleasant bitterness (burnt and over extracted?)

The final process gave in my opinion a balanced taste with little or no bitterness, good volume and a nice warm brew. In addition it was fairly simple, no pre-heated water, no adjusting of heat levels during brew, no chilling the pot under running water to stop the brewing process.

The trick is the timing of turning off the stove, which is only 1-2 minutes after turning it on, so really a fairly short time where you have to pay attention to the pot.

I can imagine the 15 seconds after the bottom is covered with coffee can vary depending on pot and stove, but having it as a starting point and experimenting with +/- 5 seconds a few times should allow you to find your own sweet spot.

I'm very happy with the results and would love to hear feedback from others.

Cheers


----------



## 4085

@davhei

One of the nice things about coffee is, there is so much and so varied an opinion. I used to make my mocha along the same lines as you, then all of a sudden Hoffman made it fashionable to use boiling or hot water into the chamber so it came to temp much faster. Why? He said to reduce the amount of time the water spends in contact with the grinds, but surely that is what you want. By using hot water and a much gentler heat, open the lid, watch the coffee pour out and as soon as it gets to the point where it fizzles, take it off the heat and put the base under cold water tap in order to stop the brew process.

Now, this might be fine if you are a World Champion Barista, or do not have taste buds like mine, but in the cold light of day, does it make any difference whatsoever? In theory yes, but for me, it is consigned to the great big waste bin that cobntains all of the other coffee bollocks we talk about!


----------



## davhei

@dfk41

Fully agree!

So many opinions and often technical, almost engineer like reasoning behind hot or cold water, steam pressure, time and temperature through the coffee cake. Well, I did try lots of different approaches and although I can't give a reason why this particular method worked for me it is really the end result that matters. To my humble tastes it is nice, balanced and steers clear of the too sour/bitter pitfalls.

I can certainly imagine several ways to reach a similar result, but to me it was a no-nonsense and relatively simple way to achieve a decent result. A fun learning process too.


----------



## 17845

I've used Bialetti's for a few years now with no problems, but recently it has started to spurt (fnarr fnarr) straight away.

I use the hot water method, tbh my taste buds are shot so it makes no difference to the taste, just weird that it has started to happen.

Venus 6 cup version.


----------



## davhei

hubcap said:


> I've used Bialetti's for a few years now with no problems, but recently it has started to spurt (fnarr fnarr) straight away.
> 
> I use the hot water method, tbh my taste buds are shot so it makes no difference to the taste, just weird that it has started to happen.
> 
> Venus 6 cup version.


 Have you changed the gasket? Maybe it leaks pressure and doesn't have the energy to properly push the coffee up?

I wonder if descaling would help? Maybe there is a build up of mineral deposits restricting the flow and causing strange effects?

Just thinking aloud.


----------



## 17845

davhei said:


> Have you changed the gasket? Maybe it leaks pressure and doesn't have the energy to properly push the coffee up?
> 
> I wonder if descaling would help? Maybe there is a build up of mineral deposits restricting the flow and causing strange effects?
> 
> Just thinking aloud.


 Hi Dav,

I have changed the gasket (for original) and I will check this again.

I use Osmio water so descaling is not an option.

Many thanks for your thoughts, appreciated.


----------



## Wuyang

MediumRoastSteam said:


> So after 15 years or so I've decided to give the Moka pot a go again. I've read quite a bit about it, and how one should brew (using boiling water instead of cold, kill the brew process once it starts puffing by putting under the tap for a few seconds etc, etc). That's all good.
> 
> I'm using a Bialetti Venus 4 cup.
> 
> - How coarse should the coffee be? Some say filter/drip coarse, some say just coarser than espresso. Could anyone give me a hint?
> 
> - How much is a "dose" (e.g: equivalent to double espresso 18g in, 36g out) in terms of cafeine? I ask that because the funnel/basket takes roughly 16g of ground coffee, but the overall beverage weight produced is around 70g, which I'm finding much "stronger" than a standard 1:2 ratio espresso of (18g in, 36g out).
> 
> - Would a 2cup moka be better to brew for 1 person?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


 I use an alessi 3 pot.....I find it makes half a normal cup. I've used boiled water in the moka and cold....both ok....but I pour as soon as it is nearly ready to finish...not leaving it to rest in the moka.

I heat half a cup of milk in the microwave for 1 min 40 to two mins then pour the moka into it.

I tried using steamed milk but it didn't taste as nice for some reason.

I only put enough grinds into the container to lightly fill it level, don't pack it down at all...I just level with my finger and knock off excess....just change grind size to see how it suits You.

I prefer a good moka with milk to a well done latte.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Wuyang said:


> I use an alessi 3 pot.....I find it makes half a normal cup. I've used boiled water in the moka and cold....both ok....but I pour as soon as it is nearly ready to finish...not leaving it to rest in the moka.
> 
> I heat half a cup of milk in the microwave for 1 min 40 to two mins then pour the moka into it.
> 
> I tried using steamed milk but it didn't taste as nice for some reason.
> 
> I only put enough grinds into the container to lightly fill it level, don't pack it down at all...I just level with my finger and knock off excess....just change grind size to see how it suits You.
> 
> I prefer a good moka with milk to a well done latte.


 Thanks. I've since sold this Moka Pot... Not my thing really. Note this post is from November 2017 👍


----------

