# Beginner question: dose, grind and extraction time.



## TomPinchenzo (Jan 2, 2019)

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum having been gifted a Delonghi ECI341 for Christmas. I've done some research and now understand that you should aim to keep your dose and tamping pressure consistent and fine tune the grind to get to the extraction time of 25-30 seconds (for 2-2.5oz, which I presume of the correct volume for an espresso). First question, does that volume include the crema or should I go from the start of the black liquid?

ive read that 16g should be an idea dose to work with but my portafilter takes nothing like that amount - more like 12g (that's for the larger 'double' filter size). I presume then that I have to alter another aspect of the process to get the correct extraction. Should I a) grind finer b) tamp harder c) extract less volume? Or none of the above??

Any insight would be great!

Many thanks,

Tom


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Don't tamp harder. Keep tamping consistent & most importantly flat, after making sure the coffee is evenly distributed in the PF - maybe by tapping down on the work surface, then a couple of side taps to level, with the heel of the hand.

If 12g is all you can fit, then 12g it is. There is no magic to 16g dose, just base your brew ratio on a 12g dose.

Brewing into a cup on scales takes the guesswork out of trying to read volume & worrying whether you want to include/exclude crema. Traditionally crema is included in volume, now you know that...forget it again! 

Find the weight of liquid out, at a grind setting that gives you a good flavour & enough strength to the drink. Shorter drinks will be stronger but also need a finer grind, until you go too fine then they will drop in extraction again & tend towards sourness. These will take as much time as they take, probably 20s+


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

Hi Tom

is your basket pressurized? if it is (which has a single hole underneath) i wouldnt recommend to grind finer or tamp harder. Do you have a 0.1 scales to weigh the coffee and output?

Do you have a grinder or you are using preground?


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## TomPinchenzo (Jan 2, 2019)

Thanks Mark,

so so I won't try and squeeze 16g into the PF. Good idea about the scales for the volume - I'm currently brewing into a baby's milk bottle as it's the only thing with oz measurements! I'll experiment with grind settings and try to get a good flavour.

Thanks for the help,

Tom


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## TomPinchenzo (Jan 2, 2019)

Inspector said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> is your basket pressurized? if it is (which has a single hole underneath) i wouldnt recommend to grind finer or tamp harder. Do you have a 0.1 scales to weigh the coffee and output?
> 
> Do you have a grinder or you are using preground?


the basket has a single tiny hole on the bottom and I have scales that measure 0.1 oz (I realise I'm mixing metric and imperial by measuring the powder in gems and the liquid in oz! I should probable choose be and stick with it).

I also have an adjustable grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

TomPinchenzo said:


> the basket has a single tiny hole on the bottom and I have scales that measure 0.1 oz (I realise I'm mixing metric and imperial by measuring the powder in gems and the liquid in oz! I should probable choose be and stick with it).
> 
> I also have an adjustable grinder.


That's the pressurised basket


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Welcome, and happy new machine









Stick to grams when weighing, it's easier and more accurate


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I can't remember how to get the best results from a pressurised basket.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It sounds like you should buy some scales. These are about with various names on them and are fairly popular. Available all over the place

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dooppa-High-precision-Pocket-Digital-Multifunctional/dp/B078778LTT/ref=sr_1_11_sspa?rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1546455959&sr=8-11-spons&keywords=1000g+scales&refinements=p_76%3A419158031&psc=1

For an espresso machine 1kg is plenty and this type does have a pan that is large enough to lay a portafilter on it - one way of checking how many grams of coffee are in it. They are also available in 2 and 3kg still with 0.1g resolution - I think.

As far as units go for liquids involved in coffee 1 oz, 30ml and 30g are all equivalent. That actually is a US fluid oz. You might see shots sized based of either 25ml or 30ml with flow times of 25sec in one case and 30 in the other for singles. Doubles simply double the quantity of liquid. Historically they are based on using 7g filter baskets for singles and 14g for doubles. That gives a coffee in to fluid out ratio of about 4. In the home espresso machine world people are strongly urged to use a ratio of 2 and 30 sec shot times or maybe 25 in 25sec and that they are double dammed if they don't. It's a good thing to aim for but not essential and other ratios and times may produce a better drink,

Your pressurised basket is aimed at being suitable for pre ground coffee. When correctly filled it will tend to give the correct output. I used one for a while on one of machines and it did but an unpressurised basket produced better results when used with a grinder that can grind down to espresso levels. Many grinders that people might buy wont grind that fine but should be able to grind down to similar or maybe a bit finer than preground. So this depends on which grinder you have. I did out of curiosity fill a pressurised basket from an espresso grinder and eventually as the grind got finer and finer it had more effect on what the basket produced.

I've not used your make of machine but would guess that you could make decent coffee with what you have providing it's a burr rather than blade grinder and your drinks are on the small size. If Delongji suggest some weight of coffee to put into the basket I'd suggest you stick to it. I'd also suggest you strain a little when you tamp as that will help you keep it more consistent. Don't worry too much about what pressure that is unless you are unusually strong







very unusually strong.

John

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