# The psychology of upgraditis - what is this rabbit hole and how far down does it go?



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

You know the drill. A home brewing enthusiast used to spending c£50 a pop on hand grinder / pouring kettle / brewer / scales gets the itch for the home espresso set-up. A bit of surfing on these forums reveals the heady ladder of quality/complexity/price and they soon realise that (if their wallet can withstand it) they should try to buy well and buy once. Simple then? I single investment bringing years and decades of fulfilment. Right?

And yet... it seems there really is very little you can do, as experience, knowledge (and envy?) grows, to stave off the dreaded upgraditis.

So I'm interested in people's views, especially those who've really been down the rabbit hole, are still in it, or out the other side:

- How have you found best to resist the upgraditus itch?

- what brings it on most strongly? What reduces it?

- is it ever properly sated?

- Given the law of diminishing returns, which leap have you found provided the greatest gains (and which are marginal or even non-existent)?

- do you secretly wish you'd never jumped at all and miss the ignorant bliss of a simple v60?

- what are the biggest regrets?

- what decisions are you most glad about?

I appreciate an awful lot of this is individual preference and carving your own path. I take that as a given.* But I'm curious about people's espresso journeys and what they think the key common factors are and how to navigate them.

* I know something about the experience from my journey in wine - there is just a point after which it's hard to "downgrade" and you find yourself endlessly searching for the next improvement. Fortunately in wine there is less of a home preparation angle so if you can't afford premium bottles at home, a trip to a good shop with a Coravin machine allows you to experience £100+ bottles for a fraction of the price. The similarities with espresso fall down at that point alas...


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

LMartin said:


> - How have you found best to resist the upgraditus itch?


 burn your credit cards


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

LMartin said:


> - what brings it on most strongly?


 accessing this forum



LMartin said:


> What reduces it?


 keeping well away from the forum - especially the for sale thread - mods are thinking of putting a warning in the sales' header.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Being serious for a moment - you can get into making good espresso without breaking the bank - just need to be savvy about what you buy and definitely go for second hand to keep costs down and, should you decide, down the line, to upgrade, the pain won't be quite as bad.


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

It is a very good point. It is hard to know when it is time to draw the line for yourself and the law of diminishing returns kicks hard with coffee machines and grinders after a certain point.

You see this with lots of hobbies and I think the internet has added fuel to the fire. I enjoy photography but I tend to avoid some internet forums because they are all about upgrading to improve and actually getting out and taking photos to improve is pretty much an afterthought.

There was an interesting thread along similar lines not long ago on here. Worth a read -

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55472-a-philosophicalpsychological-argument-to-upgraditis/?do=embed#comments


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> It is a very good point and it is hard to know when it is time to draw the line for yourself.
> 
> You see this with lots of hobbies and I think the internet has added fuel to the fire. I enjoy photography but I tend to avoid some internet forums because they are all about upgrading to improve and actually getting out and taking photos to improve is pretty much an afterthought.
> 
> ...


 Aha. This thread does look v relevant (I did scan the forums before starting a thread but didn't come across this...). Thanks!


----------



## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

LMartin said:


> - How have you found best to resist the upgraditus itch?
> 
> - what brings it on most strongly? What reduces it?
> 
> ...


 1) I look at my bank balance

2) Reading coddle forums brings it on strongwomen, Looking at my bank balance reduces it.

3) NO

4) When first starting I has a cheap espresso machine from local electrical shop, thought coffee was ok but didn't know about decent beans, water quality etc, Used pocket coffee at first then supermarket beans and cheap dalit grinder. Scale killed the machine after a couple of years, ( surprised it lasted that long, our water is harder than Desperate Dan's chin). Got a pod machine a few years later. Whilst contracting an office colleague introduced me to the Areopress, Bug starred, Areopress and mk1 Feldgrind. This year bug bit agin and brought the Classic (PID'd) I've got now. Use the feld with that. I'd love a Niche, but I'm the only coffee drinker and drink 2 (large) lattes a day so no big hassle really. So The big gains was ditching the Pod machine for the AreoPress / Feld and the Classic

5) No

6) not having enough money to buy the Niche/ Good Dual Boiler machine

7) Buying the Classic


----------



## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

8 ) Save all the above hassle and swallow the BLUE PILL instead :classic_tongue:


----------



## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

probably a comparable hobby is photography, where you convince yourself you could take better photos if you had the very latest £5k camera and 20k of lenses. I managed with the same camera for 12 years, but identified areas where it was the camera missing focus, or not having a wide enough aperture, upgraded my gear (to the top of the range 5 years before) and did get the improvements i hoped for.

my current coffee spec is a pid classic and a rocky, and i know the huge limit on the setup is the step in grinding. a stepless grinder WILL give me better results. as for the classic, if all i need to do is push hot water through a puck, then the classic is hard to beat. obviously if i want to steam a lot then i need a dual boiler, but anything else would be because i want something prettier, which probably won't taste any better.


----------



## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

It's not resistable. I bought my Mara last January thinking that would be it. Does everything I need well but I still have upgradeitus.

My excuse is to get something for my wife to use as well without the flushing routines and while I'm out at work. She liked our Nespresso which was easy for her to use she tells me

So my 12 month old Mara will go up for sale in January and I will look to upgrade

Two flaws to my logic

1) Even with the Nespresso I made all the coffees

2) Im now home based so always about to make coffee

But I have upgraditus!

Best go and make a couple of lattes now 😂


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

Mark70 said:


> It's not resistable. I bought my Mara last January thinking that would be it. Does everything I need well but I still have upgradeitus.
> 
> My excuse is to get something for my wife to use as well without the flushing routines and while I'm out at work. She liked our Nespresso which was easy for her to use she tells me
> 
> ...


 Ha quite the tale of woe!

Out of interest what's the Mara model?


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

My upgradeitis comes in occasional obsessions. I went from dead Krups to De Longhi, found this forum and went from that to single boiler then to heat exchanger, all within 12 months. Grinders followed a similar path. That was almost six years ago. I'm now experiencing upgradeitis again but will resist for the moment. A lever beckons...


----------



## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> accessing this forum
> 
> keeping well away from the forum - especially the for sale thread - mods are thinking of putting a warning in the sales' header.


 Echo this thought - bought my one and only E61 HX machine in the early 2000's, after doing research on the internet. I continued using the web from time to time trying to pick out information in order to help get the most out of the machine and make coffee that was both enjoyable and a joy to make. I didn't really bother very much with the forums, they always seemed to have posts regarding the "latest must have innovation". Of course these posts generate interest and and noise and that interest continues to fan the flames for more.

For me, I still have, use and maintain my original coffee machine and I've only bought my second machine; a lever this year. Having dipped in and out of the various fora over the last few year's to research lever machines, I'll leave it to you to consider whether I've been caught up with this upgrade bug.

The reality is, we can all pretty much tell ourselves any story we like to justify our action regarding the necessity for upgrading to something new. Over the years I've seen the upgrade bug hit countless times with friends and acquaintances, whether it be with boats, golf, photography, Hi Fi, astronomy, skiing, fishing - pretty much any interest can suffer with this affliction... BEWARE


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

LMartin said:


> - How have you found best to resist the upgraditus itch?
> 
> - what brings it on most strongly? What reduces it?
> 
> ...


 1. Good coffee.

2. Bad coffee. Good coffee.

3. Kind of, yes. The only thing I'd want to upgrade to is a Bianca, Vesuvius or Decent and there's no itch to do so.

4. Flow paddle allowing pressure/flow profiling is probably equal to using a good grinder (Niche or Ceado 83mm flat). By that I mean the was a leap in quality from the Mignon to the Ceado and Pharos and the addition of flow profiling was yet another leap. The Niche provided the smallest marginal gain on the Pharos (others report the opposite) but a huge improvement on user experience which is why I bought it. Otherwise the expensive scales I have are nice but offer no improvement or gains on cheaper options.

5. Not really. I sometimes think I could happily sell up on the espresso side of things and happily enjoy immersion and filter brews. Maybe one day I will but I won't regret the decision to get into it.

6. Zassenhaus 'Z' Grinder; Iberital MC2; De'longhi Icona. Even more than that: spending hundreds of pounds at Starbucks and Costa over the years before I got those machines.

7. Getting into roasting.


----------



## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

LMartin said:


> Ha quite the tale of woe!
> 
> Out of interest what's the Mara model?


 Normal Mara not the newer X version


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

Hi folks. Found these responses genuinely insightful and helpful on my journey. By way of an update... as suggested by a few of you, decided to go second hand on the machine (Gaggia with PID from another forum member - working beautifully) as a bit of a "proof of concept", learn the ropes and properly assure myself that I'm bought in for any future new machine further down the track. Paired with my Niche it feels like the perfect way to peer down the rabbit hole of upgraditis without falling straight in...*

*I reserve the right to fall in catastrophically at a later date 🙃


----------



## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

I have found the best (only) way for me to avoid undesired upgraditis on one category of product is to fall hook, line and sinker into it on another category. My most notable failure was to start out planning a modest used car purchase, and end up with a brand new rather fast performance car .... at a little over 5x the price. That put me off upgraditis for quite a while ..... 'til my cash reserves recharged. 

The other way, I suppose. is to discuss my plans with the wife. Though to be fair, she makes me justify it, mainly to myself, but doesn't actually stop me. Often.


----------



## Chrijj (Mar 31, 2021)

For me the issue to control is pre-purchase upgraditis. The trail of research just loops ever deeper, each step seeming reasonable until you are wondering how much you can get for a kidney!

I feel it is probably strongest when you are first getting into things as there's no frame of reference for what you actually need, just an endless sea of opportunities.


----------



## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Chrijj said:


> as there's no frame of reference for what you actually need, just an endless sea of opportunities.


 Another term for it would be conspicuous consumption - a problem in all developed economies.

It's been said by someone else on this forum; buy a machine and don't visit the forums any longer.


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

Marocchino said:


> Another term for it would be conspicuous consumption - a problem in all developed economies.
> 
> It's been said by someone else on this forum; buy a machine and don't visit the forums any longer.


 I'm not so sure about this... conspicuous consumption is about the perceived external social value of owning certain things, whereas I think a lot of what we're talking about is people privately in their own homes pining for the next thing that will bring them some incremental improvement, regardless whether anyone external knows or cares (in fact often it seems they get a little social criticism for it, ha...)


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

On a general level, being all philosophical, it's the human condition to always want more/better, sometimes as you say, for its own sake, not necessarily for social kudos. We seem to be programmed to always search for happiness and fulfilment in the wrong places, rather than seeking contentment. If you worry about what other people think on top of all that you'll need deep pockets!

Back to espresso, I decided to dip my toe in the water with a Classic/PID and a cheap Iberital grinder to see if it was "for me".

Having decided I was in for the long run, and after learning a lot on here, I decided I wanted dual boiler as milk is important to both of us. Got my R58 and have been satisfied with that for years. There's always something newer, better, more interesting (lever?) but these days I have little spare cash or time, and also I'm spending a lot less time on all Internet fora, so the itch is minimal.

I'm on my 4th grinder but having splurged on an E37S a few years back I honestly think another upgrade would be (for me) more about gear acquisition than a taste improvement. I'm the weak link in the chain rather than the kit. My coffee is good enough for me and the hotmetalette, and I don't have the energy to try to up my game at the moment. Recognising and admitting it helps me to realise that any cash I have got would be better spent overpaying my mortgage in uncertain times like now...

Well, or a 1200cc Triumph maybe, despite 675 being enough... just as I thought I'd cracked the whole "content with one's stuff" thing... I'm only human after all. With luck I'll resist that itch too.


----------



## Instant no more ! (Feb 17, 2015)

My rabbit hole has just got deeper , A Lot deeper £3.5K Deeper 🤯


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

Instant no more ! said:


> My rabbit hole has just got deeper , A Lot deeper £3.5K Deeper 🤯


 I'm at about step one/two on your journey. Good to see where it all leads 😱



hotmetal said:


> On a general level, being all philosophical, it's the human condition to always want more/better, sometimes as you say, for its own sake, not necessarily for social kudos. We seem to be programmed to always search for happiness and fulfilment in the wrong places, rather than seeking contentment. If you worry about what other people think on top of all that you'll need deep pockets!
> 
> Back to espresso, I decided to dip my toe in the water with a Classic/PID and a cheap Iberital grinder to see if it was "for me".
> 
> ...


----------



## CoffeePhilE (Jan 4, 2021)

LMartin said:


> I'm not so sure about this... conspicuous consumption is about the perceived external social value of owning certain things, whereas I think a lot of what we're talking about is people privately in their own homes pining for the next thing that will bring them some incremental improvement, regardless whether anyone external knows or cares (in fact often it seems they get a little social criticism for it, ha...)


 I agree with that. It's perhaps more the dopamine release for the anticipation of the gratification from "retail therapy" than anything conspicuous. That might be a rather tired old cliche, but there is pretty strong evidence that it's not the getting the reward (buying something) that generates maximum dopamine, but the anticipation involved in the shopping process, and especially, the unpredictability of the outcome. which is why the anticipation of a shiny new toy often fades pretty quickly when you get it.

So really smart shopping is to go through the process, get as much dopamine as you can from the anticipation, then move on to the new target of upgraditis before actually damaging your wallet.

Or perhaps, more accurately, and more seriously, that's the best strategy if the objective, consciously or otherwise, is the dopamine hit. Whether it's wise to overtly load up on dopamine constantly is entirely different. I rather think it isn't, despite my rather flippant posts about it. That way, short of taking care, like addiction. And on that, I am being serious.


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

So true. I have a good mate who has plenty of money (all legitimately earned through hard work, plus some inheritance).

He's constantly buying stuff, I mean stuff such as sports cars (R8, 911...) but they end up polished, maybe upgraded, then mostly mothballed and sold sooner or later. He's always complaining he wants a better one, or that these cars are unusable what with the state of the roads these days etc. Its all about the acquisition, once sated, he moves on.

Sadly I can't even afford his barely used cast offs LOL!

I did tempt him with espresso but he bought a Nespresso machine designed by Porsche, and comes round mine for coffee LMAO! Proof that he does appreciate the finer things in life. Maybe being a purveyor of fine beverages does increase your social standing - not cos they're impressed with your shiny E61 gadget, but because you have a supply of good coffee for willing audiences!


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

CoffeePhilE said:


> I agree with that. It's perhaps more the dopamine release for the anticipation of the gratification from "retail therapy" than anything conspicuous. That might be a rather tired old cliche, but there is pretty strong evidence that it's not the getting the reward (buying something) that generates maximum dopamine, but the anticipation involved in the shopping process, and especially, the unpredictability of the outcome. which is why the anticipation of a shiny new toy often fades pretty quickly when you get it.
> 
> So really smart shopping is to go through the process, get as much dopamine as you can from the anticipation, then move on to the new target of upgraditis before actually damaging your wallet.
> 
> Or perhaps, more accurately, and more seriously, that's the best strategy if the objective, consciously or otherwise, is the dopamine hit. Whether it's wise to overtly load up on dopamine constantly is entirely different. I rather think it isn't, despite my rather flippant posts about it. That way, short of taking care, like addiction. And on that, I am being serious.


 Yes v true! The very interesting thread begun by @TomHughes (linked earlier in this thread) covers some of the same territory in terms of the psychological "hit" and how to overcome it.

PS I wonder if there's a parallel universe where people on Dopamine Forum UK are discussing how they think their obsession with buying the newest dopamine equipment is really deep down about getting short caffeine hits...


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

LMartin said:


> PS I wonder if there's a parallel universe where people on Dopamine Forum UK are discussing how they think their obsession with buying the newest dopamine equipment is really deep down about getting short caffeine hits...


Hahaha! In all those billions of stars, and parallel universes, or as-yet unnamed dimensions, I would think its a mathematical certainty there is a thread on Dopamine forums on the psychology of upcaffitis. Hey maybe that's "Thread Theory", a bit like String Theory?

They're probably trying to justify purchasing of an SX machine (Serotonin Xchanger) or deciding whether to just get a Sage BX (wise man's brain exchange?) with the latest SSRI mod.


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

hotmetal said:


> Hahaha! In all those billions of stars, and parallel universes, or as-yet unnamed dimensions, I would think its a mathematical certainty there is a thread on Dopamine forums on the psychology of upcaffitis. Hey maybe that's "Thread Theory", a bit like String Theory?
> 
> They're probably trying to justify purchasing of an SX machine (Serotonin Xchanger) or deciding whether to just get a Sage BX (wise man's brain exchange?) with the latest SSRI mod.


 Haha and countless intelligent beings dying out for want of finding a habitable Niche [zero].


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

This is why I purchased my machine. It said "Rocket" on the front. I figured I could use it to get there...

As for how far the rabbit hole or worm hole goes, it's like a gas... or GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). It keeps expanding to fit the available budget.


----------



## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

hotmetal said:


> This is why I purchased my machine. It said "Rocket" on the front. I figured I could use it to get there...
> 
> As for how far the rabbit hole or worm hole goes, it's like a gas... or GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). It keeps expanding to fit the available budget.


 Something about adrenalinea mini...


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

He probably only wants to upgrade his stapler after hiding Gareth's in a jelly.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/index.html


----------

