# Don't know which beans to buy or where from!



## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Hello!

I have been using a delonghi espresso machine for years (Icona) and only buying supermarket or high st coffee.

I either buy ground or beans - I have a krups grinder.

Over the years I can only think of 3 coffees which taste as good as any coffee shop:

Segafredo Esprsso Classico Ground Coffee - Love this one

Illy Espresso Coffee - "safe"

Starbucks christmas blend beans - seasonal onlyI have pretty much tried all of these and often give up before the packet is finished:

Tesco finest varitey

Sainsburys taste the difference

Dowe egberts, taylors etc etc

they are all yuck!

I want to buy some beans online rather which are roasted to order (see what the fuss is about)

What and where should I start? Why are the top 3 WAY better than any other supermarket coffee?

I would like to try some similar to costa coffee or cafe neros

any help appreciated

thanks


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

First question, what grinder do you have?


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Try Italian job from rave coffee. A cheap way to get started and it's good.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

If you look on the beans subforum there is a massive list of roasters to choose from.

Soem forum favourites are HasBean, Smokey Barn & Rave so you could buy a couple of bags you like the sound of from each of them (in turn, not at once or it will go stale) and see how you get on? There are loads more worthy roasters too though, if you tell us where you live maybe we can suggest somewhere local.

You might struggle a bit with that grinder, the cheaper ones aren't very good at consistency which can create problems. If you were willign to upgrade to a slightly better machine and grinder further down the line, you can easily make coffee (using the above suppliers) that will beat 95% of coffee shops you come across.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

i have this one

http://www.krups.co.uk/coffee-grinder-gvx231


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

People will say upgrade, but if your happy with that one, then stick with it.

You will though not get the best out the beans, it may not grind some of them fine or consistently enough for espresso.

what kind of flavours are you after fruity, floral, dark, chocolate, berries?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

People will say upgrade... Its not a great grinder for espresso correct ')


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

I am fine with this grinder - on the finest setting my coffee machine cant normally make a cup!

just bought some italian job from rave as recommended!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Fine doesn't consistent


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

darren_85 said:


> I am fine with this grinder - on the finest setting my coffee machine cant normally make a cup!
> 
> just bought some italian job from rave as recommended!


Just because a grinder on it's finest setting can choke a machine is not aany sort of quality criteria, most of the cheap ones can do this with no problem, simply because of the large quantity of fines they produce. A good grinder can grind fine and with a consistent particle size. This means that the coffee can be finer and still not choke the machine = flavour. You would be well advised to reconsider upgrading the grinder. Minimum decent new grinder is around £270 and excellent used can be had for similar money, sometimes less.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There is STILL a mignion for sale for £180 delivered in the sales thread ( unbelievable how the colour somehow makes a desire able grinder somehow unsellable on a forum populated predominantly by men...







)


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

All depends if the OP wants to splash the cash though, which it would appear he doesn't.


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2014)

I've got the OP's grinder and its terrible.

I've modded it as well, but even then the grinds are all different sizes and it still doesn't grind fine enough even with the modifications.

I usually have to re run the ground coffee through the grinder to get something that is suitable for espresso and even then sometimes i have to do it again.


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## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

I thought this was a coffee thread! I have recently purchased a Eureka Zenith 65E, highly recommend it!

COFFEE.. I started my grinding career with Jampit Mahogany, found it tricky to get to a decent cup, most likely due to my lack of experience. I decided I prefer a lighter roast so have just taken delivery of 2KG's of Rave Signature. Love it so far, unbelievable hazelnut aroma on the beans. And nowhere near the bitterness I was suffering with the Jampit. Overall, making cups ten times better within a couple of shots.

How long should degassing take?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rave signature is ok to use at 5-6 days will taste better at around 10 days


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> All depends if the OP wants to splash the cash though, which it would appear he doesn't.


Not got a gun to his head ( yet ....)

but man says " coffee no taste good" .

Is it the coffee being bought ( if pre bought supermarket yes )

will it improve drastically if better coffee is bought ( not to the potential of great coffee with that grinder IMHO ) . Say it again choking a machine ( brilliant predictive text had that has Maxine to start with ) doesn't mean a grinder is good .

An Mc2 or second hand sages can be got for under a ton on eBay , gumtree etc

Sounds argumentative but isn't meant to....









All in good banter


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Noah&theBean said:


> I usually have to re run the ground coffee through the grinder to get something that is suitable for espresso and even then sometimes i have to do it again.


Not the way to go if seeking good or reasonable espresso.

Hand grinders that do the job at one go are far better & not expensive.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Hi All

Almost finished my RAVE blow the doors off.

I am surprised how weak the coffee is - I thought I was in for a strong treat!

It is certainly fresh but I'm having to add less water to my espresso to taste it.

I have tried lots of grind settings and if i make it too fine then my machine can't push the water through the coffee









What should I try next?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You need to get the ratios right. If not already doing so, weigh your grind, then put a cup on scales, zero it and aim for an output of plus 60% over 30 seconds, as a starting guide


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Hi before moving onto another roaster perhaps we can help your technique

Define " strong "

Are you weighing your dose of coffee?

Are you weighing the amount of liquid that said coffee above produces ?

What machine are you using , what grinder are you using ?

Are you drinking it as espresso , americano , milk based drink ?

What tastes are you looking for in your coffee and from what type of drink being made ..

Cheers


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

darren_85 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Almost finished my RAVE blow the doors off.
> 
> ...


Your doing something wrong i think, are you adding water after the shot to make an Americano?

What weight are you dosing in?

I didnt think that much to it, but it does have Robusta in it so will give you the kick you want if you get it right.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hi before moving onto another roaster perhaps we can help your technique
> 
> Define " strong "
> 
> ...


Im using delonghi icona with krups machine (see beginning of thread)

I don't weigh the coffee, i just full up the "large" espresso handle, tamp and then topup and tamp again if the handle isn't full.

I am pulling the expresso until the foam turns white-ish

I then add water and milk for americano.

By strong I mean.....ummmm... rich large cup - don't want it to taste watered down. Costa / Nero seem to have it right!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Your combination of machine and grinder isn't great for espresso

Given that iyou don't know what your ingredients are ( weight of coffee in and out ) then I am unsure how we to make it taste better or stronger for you ,

You are pulling the espresso too long , if it it's turning white there Is no coffee taste in it .

Again given the above I'm not sure changing roaster will make any difference to your coffee experience unless you change the kit you are using and the way you are making the coffee .

I do not wish to help you make coffee that tastes like costa , but that is a personal choice , I don't like the way they make coffee .

I perhaps feel like you are trolling slightly , with the Costa comment if you are not I apologise but they do not make coffee I aspire to drink ...


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

trolling? how? I am a complete amateur, I just wanted some advice! Jeez what a way to feel welcome


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Because Costa tastes like shit.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

darren_85 said:


> trolling? how? I am a complete amateur, I just wanted some advice! Jeez what a way to feel welcome


I said if you weren't trolling then Aplogies...

So apologies......sorry no offence meant.

As I said my preference isn't for the coffee Costa or Nero make ...

If you want to improve the taste then start weighing your coffee at least the dose .

Personally ( and I think Glenn may have mentioned this previously ) the kit you have will hold back the kind of coffee experience you can have...and the taste it will produce ...


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> I said if you weren't trolling then Aplogies...
> 
> So apologies......sorry no offence meant.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice you are giving me









I never thought I would need to weigh the coffee - if I buy pre ground lilly then that is way stronger than these beans. Hmmmm

Why would I want to weigh the coffee and not just fill the basket?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The amount of coffee you put in and the amount of water you put through it , will effect the taste .

Scoops won't be an accurate measurement ....

If your coffee isn't strong enough for you then you need to be able to change the recipe and the ingredients

One of which is the coffee used .

If you weigh you know how much you used and therefore how much to us e again ( add more or use less )


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

so lets say i added 30g of ground coffee....when do i press stop for the water?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

darren_85 said:


> I appreciate the advice you are giving me
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You've come to a forum of coffee obsessives! Weighing the coffee and then the output allows us to both aim for a certain extraction and to compare notes and it helps with working out where someone has gone wrong and offer advice. Strength is a difficult one as it means different things to different people. Strength of illy for example probably comes down to how dark a roast it is (some would say charcoal). Strength can also refer to how much of the coffee bean has been extracted into the liquid to produce the shot. This is where weight can help.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

30g would be too much coffee to fit in a basket. A typica double takes between 14-16g. The water is stopped when your target output is reached, usually around 28-32g or when it starts spraying pale watery liquid.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

darren_85 said:


> so lets say i added 30g of ground coffee....when do i press stop for the water?


I think you may be wise to have a read of this, its not that long but gives you the basics of how make an Espresso.

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/free-espresso-training-book


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> I think you may be wise to have a read of this, its not that long but gives you the basics of how make an Espresso.
> 
> http://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/free-espresso-training-book


Agree good link

With the OP's kit will be a stuggle to hit said ratios full stop though .

Not what he wants to hear but delonghi and krupps not good


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Also OP, no X in espresso!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Also OP, no X in espresso!


Maybe he's French


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Hope not!

13 surrendering cheese eating monkeys.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Maybe he's French


Or British. "espresso" is Italian, expresso is Anglicised, not wrong per se, just not commonly done.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Morning

I weighed the coffee in the basket and it was 12g. I pulled the shot for 15 seconds and then weighed the shot @ 63g!!

This doesn't sound good? The ground was very fine - If I go 2 notches down, the coffee won't pull !

The taste was one of the better coffees ive made with it though.

I really need new equipment I guess!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

You set the scales to zero when you put your cup on yes? (Just checking)

Have you took your grinder as fine as it will go?


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> You set the scales to zero when you put your cup on yes? (Just checking)
> 
> Have you took your grinder as fine as it will go?


Measurements are accurate









No - if i took it to the finest setting then i cant make a coffee, the machine cloggs up!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

When you say clogs up, what happens exactly? No flow at all? how long are you letting it run for? The first drops should take 5-8 seconds to show.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> When you say clogs up, what happens exactly? No flow at all? how long are you letting it run for? The first drops should take 5-8 seconds to show.


Either no flow or takes ages for it to come out and then drips - the machine sounds like it's really struggling.

When timing the shot should you start the count when you press the button or when the first drop comes out?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

From when you press the button. What happens if you go one notch from finest?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

go one notch down on the grinder?


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

HI Darren

I think your problem stems from your basket (I am guessing its pressurised - does it have a plastic thing attached to the bottom). If its pressurised then tamping and fresh grinding will not be particularly beneficial and will choke the machine. You can buy unpressurised baskets for delonghis I bought some from here http://www.buyspares.co.uk/coffee-maker/delonghi/filter/product.pl?pid=1742107&path=608071:614470,608098,54536:620395&refine=filter (I think this is the one I bought!) It fitted my ec330s (before it exploded!), I have one which has been rarely used you could have for £3 delivered - but I cant promise it will fit.

Joining the wider debate - yes, you could upgrade, yes it will make a huge difference if you do.

BUT - your delonghi and Krups are capable of making coffee which tastes good (better than most shops).

Taking the outer sleeve off the milk wand allows you to texture milk pretty well once you get the hang of it,

Using an unpressurised basket allows you to tamp properly and aim for a timed extraction (by the way don't use the awful plastic connected tamper - you can buy a motta one from cream supplies for about £15).

The grinder isn't great but I still have it and use it when I can't be bothered handgrinding - you will never reach the nuances achievable with a better grinder, but you can start to taste the differences between beans and sometimes achieve the tasting notes.

My coffee journey is a really slow one as I cant afford big investments - I know it will get better as I invest more, but I also know that what I am drinking now (and was with a delonghi and krups) was good, tasty, and a lot of fun to make.

I hope this helps


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

P.s good beans I tried with the krups/delonghi combo .... Extract Original (cheaper if you buy it by the kilo!), Bailies sweet wonders and 100% Arabica espresso (2 bags give free postage), Coffee Compass - Brighton Lanes, Stewarts of trent bridge (this forum has just had them roast for a group) - I had the Italian espresso and Stewart's own blend.

These were all drunk as flat whites

There is probably more but I can't think of them just now


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

flibble said:


> HI Darren
> 
> I think your problem stems from your basket (I am guessing its pressurised - does it have a plastic thing attached to the bottom). If its pressurised then tamping and fresh grinding will not be particularly beneficial and will choke the machine. You can buy unpressurised baskets for delonghis I bought some from here http://www.buyspares.co.uk/coffee-maker/delonghi/filter/product.pl?pid=1742107&path=608071:614470,608098,54536:620395&refine=filter (I think this is the one I bought!) It fitted my ec330s (before it exploded!), I have one which has been rarely used you could have for £3 delivered - but I cant promise it will fit.


Hello! Thanks for that

Sounds like you are onto something here with the basket!

My basket and handle look like this .









I have the icona machine http://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-ECO310-R-Espresso-Machine-Scarlet/dp/B0029NZW4A

Why would it be pressurized? I thought they all were...

Will the machine function properly with another type?


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

Hi Darren - yes that is pressurised. That is done so anyone can get 'crema' using rubbish coffee. Unpressurised baskets are ones you can see all the holes in.

Basically (I am rubbish with this stuff - I am sure someone will chip in) - using an unpressurised basket means the pressure comes from your grind and tamp, whereas at the minute your coffee is being forced through another system as well - thus choking.

You can put any basket that fits into your portafilter handle but some will not fit.

Did my machine function properly? Yes, but it did explode (I think that was unrelated - probably limescale).


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

flibble said:


> Hi Darren - yes that is pressurised. That is done so anyone can get 'crema' using rubbish coffee. Unpressurised baskets are ones you can see all the holes in.
> 
> Basically (I am rubbish with this stuff - I am sure someone will chip in) - using an unpressurised basket means the pressure comes from your grind and tamp, whereas at the minute your coffee is being forced through another system as well - thus choking.
> 
> ...


cool! im well excited now! just found this video, not watched it yet but think its about the same topic


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

Yep - same issue. I saw that video in my efforts to locate a basket. They suggest you need on of their machined baskets (a lot of money) - however it turns out that for my machine (and looing at the photo - I think your machine too) there is a stock basket that fits.

P.s if you go this route - you REALLY need a tamper, but they are such lovely tactile things!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

That basket looks tiny?


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

52mm - its what you do with it that counts!


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

flibble said:


> 52mm - its what you do with it that counts!


Will the coffee actually be better? Presumably i will be able to use the finest ground setting instead. I'm guessing these pressurized ones are made for dummies / lower end machines?


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Just found this mod im gonna try before buying something

http://protofusion.org/wordpress/2010/02/depressurizing-the-ec-155-portafilter/


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

Unless you modify the basket - you wont see any difference, its the small plastic bit that is the issue unfortunately, not the portafilter, you can take the plastic bit out, but I think you are better with a new basket.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

flibble said:


> Unless you modify the basket - you wont see any difference, its the small plastic bit that is the issue unfortunately, not the portafilter, you can take the plastic bit out, but I think you are better with a new basket.


That guy is modifying the basket is he not? By removing the plastic which causes the pressurization.

I have found a forum in poland with a guy who has my machine and has found a basket that fits - it's different to yours, same website but £9.99!


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

I guess it must depressurise it yes, worth trying I guess. Though it will still have the odd rubber bit in the basket itself - I don't know on this one sorry.

Re basket mine were definitely about £5 delivered.


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

flibble said:


> I guess it must depressurise it yes, worth trying I guess. Though it will still have the odd rubber bit in the basket itself - I don't know on this one sorry.
> 
> Re basket mine were definitely about £5 delivered.


Could you measure the diameter of yours and i'll check mine tonight - happy to buy yours if it fits!


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## flibble (Feb 27, 2013)

it takes a 52mm tamper, measures internally between 52 and 53mm, including lips its about 61mm. I wont be able to send anything till next week so you might prefer to go straight to the website, otherwise pm me (if that is ok with mods).


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Mod didn't work...


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## darren_85 (Jul 7, 2014)

Will try a coarser setting with the mod


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