# Arabica and Robusta



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I was thinking about this today.......what exactly is it? Ok, Arabica presumably is a crop which is certified to meet certain standards whilst Robusta is not. When you hear people say that for example, Italian coffee contains robusta, but what exactly is it? Can you get bean A which is arabica, but bean B is the same variety but is Robusta quality? Or do they mix anything which is graded as Robusta in?

Can someone explain!


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Robusta is a different coffee plant which is more hardy and grows at lower altitude. Arabica and robusta are different species. Arabica is then separated in to varietals.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Neill said:


> Robusta is a different coffee plant which is more hardy and grows at lower altitude.


Thats as maybe, but can you get a Robusta version of an Arabica bean? What does it mean when blenders add some Robusta? Does all Robusta taste the same........see where I am going?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I don't think you can get a robusta version of an arabica bean as they are different species but I think there are different grades of robusta. I know hasbean talk about using high quality robusta in their breakfast bomb.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Robusta is generally nasty in the cup. I can understand why its used in blends as a filler - its cheap and easy to cultivate .

However - Robusta is also robust, ie it has properties which see it less susceptible to leaf rust and other diseases , hence lots of cross breeding to keep the future of coffee safe®.

Good example of this is Ethiosar - tastes good more robust.

The varietal, ethiosar, is a stable hybrid plant. It is a cross of an Ethiopian variety (Rume Sudan) with a Sarchimore (a cross of a Villa Sarchi with a Timore variety). The offspring of this plant is then crossed once again with a Villa Sarchi (an improved Caturra / Bourbon from Costa Rica).

The Timor variety is the robusta variety used to produce all the Catimores. In short it only has a very small % of Catimores in it, thus making it very resistant to rust in most parts of the world. The Rume Sudan is a very old variety of Typica from Ethiopia. Both Rume Sudan and Villa Sarchi are known for their great cup characteristics.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Thats as maybe, but can you get a Robusta version of an Arabica bean? What does it mean when blenders add some Robusta? Does all Robusta taste the same........see where I am going?


No

Perhaps they want more crema

No


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Arabica and Robusta are members/sub genus of the coffee genus/family Coffea. There is a third, I think but it's not cultivated much. Arabica grows at higher altitude - the higher producing better quality beans because the plants are put under greater stress at these altitudes and consequently invest more energy into cherry/bean development at the expense of foliage growth. Robusta grows easily - lower altitudes. Robusta has twice as much caffeine in it. Caffeine is the plant's natural defence against pest attack. Italy's use of Robusta which is considered inferior in terms of taste quality has more to do, I believe, cost of Arabica beans being more expensive. Use of Robusta is/was a cheaper cost alternative. I'll shut up now


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Neill said:


> Robusta is a different coffee plant which is more hardy and grows at lower altitude. Arabica and robusta are different species. Arabica is then separated in to varietals.


Both are sub species of the parent genus - Coffea.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

arabica though is a title. all the SO coffee we buy tends to be arabica, so, is Robusta just a general title given to this type of coffee and can you get a similar range of robusta coffee beans as you can arabica?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

You can get varietals of Robusta - think plant hybrids, for example, how many varieties there are of, say, tulips.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Both are sub species of the parent genus - Coffea.


That's what I was trying to say, thanks.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

All coffee varieties stem from a wild genus of Coffea that grew and still grows in Ethiopia. It was the Yemenis who are credited with the first developments in hybridisation.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> arabica though is a title. all the SO coffee we buy tends to be arabica, so, is Robusta just a general title given to this type of coffee and can you get a similar range of robusta coffee beans as you can arabica?


Arabica & Robusta are different species, think lions & tigers, tigers aren't a quality grade of lion, they're a different thing. But, they're both cats.

Robusta is more resilient to disease & pests, easier to grow, but isn't deemed to taste as good generally. Leaf rust has led people to hybridise Arabica & Robusta, to make Arabica more resilient - like mating a lion & a tiger, to get a liger or a tigon.

Blending is different to hybridising more like putting a tiger in a sack of lions...hmm, maybe & good luck with trying that? The tiger doesn't become part lion, it's just mixed in with them?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

That clears up part of my lack of knowledge, but I still do not understand how roasters decide on what Robusta to use if they are going to blend. How do they buy it, talking descriptions? Do you expect robusta from region A to be broadly the same all over?


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> That clears up part of my lack of knowledge, but I still do not understand how roasters decide on what Robusta to use if they are going to blend. How do they buy it, talking descriptions? Do you expect robusta from region A to be broadly the same all over?


Presume they cup it like they would and arabica coffee. Don't envy them that job


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Just been checking - Arabica is a species with many varietals - e.g. Bourbon. Robusta isn't a species, it's a varietal. The species it belongs to is Canephora. So, you have Coffea Arabica and Coffea Canepnora of which Robusta is a varietal.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Before Robusta beans are roasted they conjure smells of peanuts or oats, giving off a nutty, grainy fragrance. Once they are roasted, Robusta beans often smell burnt (e.g., burnt rubber or plastic), and perhaps slightly woody. Robusta coffee tends to be bitter compared to Arabica. Robusta also has less pleasant acidity levels.

Though Robusta coffees have no significant presence in the gourmet coffee market, they are often used as a base in espresso blends to enhance the body of the espresso.

Hmmmm rubber and burnt plastic....mmmmm Lavazza


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

A third of all coffee drunk in Italy is Robusta.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

http://www.jimseven.com/2013/05/07/arabica-origin-to-extinction/


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Blending is different to hybridising more like putting a tiger in a sack of lions...hmm, maybe & good luck with trying that? The tiger doesn't become part lion, it's just mixed in with them?


You can get Lyon's coffee though


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## TheDude (May 11, 2013)

The method people that sell, buy and roast coffee use to talk about how different coffee beans taste is by using a standardized method called Cupping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_cupping). Cupping makes it possible for a roaster to get a general idea about how a coffee bean will taste, by reading notes from a cupping event.

When a rosters blend coffee (both when blending different types of arabica and when they blend arabica with robusta) they will before deciding what coffee beans to use in the blend taste a number of different coffee beans separately (Cupping) and then decide what beans will work well together in a blend.

Here is a "coffee family tree".

http://www.cafeimports.com/coffee-family-tree


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

TheDude said:


> The method people that sell, buy and roast coffee use to talk about how different coffee beans taste is by using a standardized method called Cupping (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_cupping). Cupping makes it possible for a roaster to get a general idea about how a coffee bean will taste, by reading notes from a cupping event.
> 
> When a rosters blend coffee (both when blending different types of arabica and when they blend arabica with robusta) they will before deciding what coffee beans to use in the blend taste a number of different coffee beans separately (Cupping) and then decide what beans will work well together in a blend.
> 
> ...


Would you cup a robusta?


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## TheDude (May 11, 2013)

Neill said:


> Would you cup a robusta?


I have never done that, but it seems like people do:

http://coffeelands.crs.org/2012/10/314-robusta-on-the-cupping-table/


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

I was aware that there were fine robustas. I see hasbean have taken the robusta out of their breakfast bomb. I didn't like that blend previously.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Coffee Real sell a specialty Robusta, and Black Sheep Coffee go one step further and not only sell it but run a cafe with it

http://www.leavetheherdbehind.com/

I've smelt Coffee Real's offering, and declined a drink being made from it based purely on that...


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

aaronb said:


> Coffee Real sell a specialty Robusta, and Black Sheep Coffee go one step further and not only sell it but run a cafe with it
> 
> http://www.leavetheherdbehind.com/
> 
> I've smelt Coffee Real's offering, and declined a drink being made from it based purely on that...


Had a quick read at the leave the herd behind website. Their main selling points seem to be high caffeine content and "be different". Looks more of a case of style over substance. Maybe I'm too sceptical?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Neill said:


> Had a quick read at the leave the herd behind website. Their main selling points seem to be high caffeine content and "be different". Looks more of a case of style over substance. Maybe I'm too sceptical?


No!









13 char


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

£5.40 for robusta! Wonder how the wholesale price compares to an arabica.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

dfk, check out that link to the coffee family tree earlier in the thread, that explains it a bit,

There is actually a much better one, but I cant find it right now.

There is also this fascinating talk from the SCAA Symposium last year titled 'Arabica - From Origin to Extinction'






It talks about how Arabica is going extinct, how Robusta is far more resistant to coffee diseases such as leaf rust, and also talks a bit about how Robusta and Arabica are related.

Really worth a watch and not long.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Neill said:


> £5.40 for robusta! Wonder how the wholesale price compares to an arabica.


Reading Anthony Wild's 'Black Gold' - paints a very gloomy picture for Arabica producers - particularly small scale ones. Says the wholesale price of Arabica is less than it was ten years ago and would need to double in price for the farmers to get a realistic income from it. The big companies - Nestle etc are stuffing the producers. Vietnam has gone for virtually zero to being near the top for coffee export albeit Robusta. In the dash for profit, the land is being trashed by intensive cultivation. No wonder Nestle have a big processing plant in Vietnam. Looks like China may soon take over where Vietnam leaves off.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Reading Anthony Wild's 'Black Gold' - paints a very gloomy picture for Arabica producers - particularly small scale ones. Says the wholesale price of Arabica is less than it was ten years ago and would need to double in price for the farmers to get a realistic income from it. The big companies - Nestle etc are stuffing the producers. Vietnam has gone for virtually zero to being near the top for coffee export albeit Robusta. In the dash for profit, the land is being trashed by intensive cultivation. No wonder Nestle have a big processing plant in Vietnam. Looks like China may soon take over where Vietnam leaves off.


Depressing stuff. Will we all be drinking robusta some day!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Wouldn't go that far. Roasters, like many who advertise on the forum go the extra mile developing unique relationships with growers and buying direct. It's small scale given coffee is traded globally as a commodity but it's a start.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

If you watch that video too then there is talk about all these untouched wild coffees, and the possibility of crossing various species and varietals to ensure their future.

Just gotta hope that they produce tasty coffee!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Watched the presentation - excellent. As Davis explains, there are many sub-species of the Coffea genus but only Arabica, so far, is the one to go for but its cultivation presents challenges given the best crops come from higher altitude production. Hopefully, the hybridisation of Robusta's disease/pest resistance being introduced into Arabica varietals will bear fruit (groan). Davis's point about climate change affecting Arabica long term production is depressing.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Wow, look where an innocent question is taking us!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

DFK, i have some indian robusta if you want a 100g to play with, hell you can even have a go at cupping..


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Wouldn't go that far. Roasters, like many who advertise on the forum go the extra mile developing unique relationships with growers and buying direct. It's small scale given coffee is traded globally as a commodity but it's a start.


+1 for this.

Specialty can save the day, we hope


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