# Your opinion on these burrs



## risky (May 11, 2015)

So I bought a used Super Jolly last week. It was refurbished by the seller (read: cleaned and spray painted) and he claims to have fitted 'new titanium blades'.

Attached are the photos of said burrs. Ignore any traces of coffee as some beans (that smell like they had been roaster to within an inch of their life) had been ground through by the seller presumably to show that the machine worked.

I would not expect new titanium burrs to look like this if they have had only a small amount of coffee through them. Thoughts?



















The dark areas on the lower is some kind of tarnishing?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Buying a second hand grinder from somewhere else than the forum is well dodgy...

I would just replace them, not much cost to it.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

eerm, no they don't look too good to me. The top one looks like its been used to play pavement ice hockey!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

froggystyle said:


> Buying a second hand grinder from somewhere else than the forum is well dodgy...
> 
> I would just replace them, not much cost to it.


Well if you're of the opinion that the burrs aren't new then I surely have a solid claim against the seller? He has said the burrs are new.

The issue is that obviously he isn't going to give me a new set of titanium burrs at £125, he'll just ask for the grinder to be returned and he'll punt it to someone who doesn't look as closely.

Granted normal ones are only about £20 but even if he offered me £20 back to replace the burrs with normal ones I would still feel aggrieved.

Basically my options are:

a) keep it, and get the seller to pay up for new normal burrs

b) return it

Lesson learnt, if it looks too good to be true, it is.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Your choice of course, how much did you pay?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

froggystyle said:


> Your choice of course, how much did you pay?


£250 (free delivery so arguably about £240 for the machine)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Did you get it for a bargain?

If so new burrs ( non ti ) will last you a lifetime and you will still be in bargain territory, as said they dont cost much ...

Or send it back and pay more for something else

Thems your choices


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Is that rust or just dirt? How do they feel?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Burrs are damaged and need replacing. If the grinder is in decent condition you could fit with non-Ti at reasonable cost and get the seller to cover this. Depends how much you paid for the grinder.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Is that rust or just dirt? How do they feel?


I don't think it's dirt, it wont scrape off. It's some kind of oxidisation I would say.

I would consider the price a bargain if they were new Ti burrs. I don't think £250 for a Super Jolly with new normal burrs would ever be considered a bargain.

Given the price paid I'm learning towards returning it.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

I would put it down to experience and return it at the sellers expense for a full refund. The burrs are not as described the rest could be a bit iffy as well. Don't take a chance, get a refund while you can.

One thing about eBay, they are 100% behind the buyer, the seller won't have a chance......


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

risky said:


> I would consider the price a bargain if they were new Ti burrs. I don't think £250 for a Super Jolly with new normal burrs would ever be considered a bargain.
> 
> Given the price paid I'm learning towards returning it.


£250 for a Sj with normal burrs is a fair price


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

They dont look new to me, and Titanium doesnt rust and that looks like rust.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

£250 is an ok price, but I can understand you feeling hard done by. My thinking would be if he's gone to the trouble of painting the burrs what else could be wrong with it, that just me though.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> They dont look new to me, and Titanium doesnt rust and that looks like rust.


I might be wrong, someone let me know please..... But i dont think titanium burrs are actually titanium, It's just a coating and this looks like the coating coming off? But either way definatly not new!!!

In my best Deborah Meaden voice 'I'm out'


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Mr O said:


> I might be wrong, someone let me know please..... But i dont think titanium burrs are actually titanium, It's just a coating and this looks like the coating coming off? But either way definatly not new!!!
> 
> In my best Deborah Meaden voice 'I'm out'


Close up of the tarnishing


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

risky said:


> I don't think it's dirt, it wont scrape off. It's some kind of oxidisation I would say.
> 
> 
> 
> > When Titanium reacts with Oxygen, if forms Titanium Oxide which is a powdery white substance that's fairly soft (on the same order as chalk). Titanium Oxide is very, very bright white. In fact, it's a common pigment in white paint. It's also common in cosmetics, especially powders where it lightens the color, gives a bit of a "sparkle" appearance that people associate with purity and cleanliness, and also helps keep the powder from caking and clumping. The oxidation of Titanium at room temperature proceeds at almost glacial rates.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Yeah if the coating worn through like that they're probably goosed. How do they feel?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Looks like someone badly painted steel burrs to make them look new and the paints worn off as you grind. That said they could be used titaniums with worn off coating. Either way they don't look like new burrs.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Yeah if the coating worn through like that they're probably goosed. How do they feel?


I'm not really sure what they're supposed to feel like to give a fair comparison. How sharp are they supposed to be?

I've noticed the upper is marked CF (in a circle) 463074 if that sheds any more light on the situation.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Mr O said:


> I would put it down to experience and return it at the sellers expense for a full refund. The burrs are not as described the rest could be a bit iffy as well. Don't take a chance, get a refund while you can.
> 
> One thing about eBay, they are 100% behind the buyer, the seller won't have a chance......


Strongly thinking this is the best course of action for the very reason that if the seller has been dishonest about the burrs, what other nasties is this machine hiding?

This is a link to the original auction if it is of interest:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251975766690


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

£250 isn't a bargain price at all. It would be a fair to middling price for an sj with new burrs. Personally i'd send it back for full refund and then get in touch with Coffeechap for a decent one


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

CamV6 said:


> £250 isn't a bargain price at all. It would be a fair to middling price for an sj with new burrs. Personally i'd send it back for full refund and then get in touch with Coffeechap for a decent one


I've just noticed the seller follows an eBay user called CoffeeChap? Strange coincidence.

I've messaged the seller, included photos and asked him how he wishes to rectify the situation.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Coffeechap does have an ebay a/c of the same name [Coffeechap]...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

risky said:


> I've just noticed the seller follows an eBay user called CoffeeChap? Strange coincidence.
> 
> I've messaged the seller, included photos and asked him how he wishes to rectify the situation.


Its not coffeechap that has sold this

Anyone can follow anyone on ebay ...

Allows em to see when someone post a sale etc

These will be after market burrs i bet ....


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Its not coffeechap that has sold this
> 
> Anyone can follow anyone on ebay ...


I wasn't suggesting it was. Only an interesting coincidence that someone recommended I get one from coffeechap and the person who sold me this one follows him on eBay.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

risky said:


> I've messaged the seller, included photos and asked him how he wishes to rectify the situation.


Your going about it the right way, first give the seller a chance to come up with an acceptable solution, if not, then press for a full refund. Ebay will back you all the way as it is not as advertised.

Personally Id want a full refund because as you've rightly pointed out, there could be other unseen problems.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

risky said:


> I've just noticed the seller follows an eBay user called CoffeeChap? Strange coincidence.
> 
> I've messaged the seller, included photos and asked him how he wishes to rectify the situation.


Why is this a strange coincidence?, many people follow many sellers on ebay, if you look at my coffee chap account on ebay you will see that i have not sold a mazzer for over a year. I have checked who the seller is following and who actually follows me half of which are members on the forum!

here is what the mazzer ti burrs should look like

http://www.mazzer.com/en/grinding-blades/grinding-blade-t033t/

they look pretty used to me as the coating does not wear off easily on the oem mazzer burrs, however anyone can coat a set of cheap burrs and sell them as fitting a mazzer. You pay your money and take your chance on ebay, luckily you are protected.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Sorry again if you felt I had in some way connected you with this seller.

I had found images of Mazzer burrs just like the ones you've linked, but I was struggling to find pictures of used burrs to see how much wear is typical. One of the only pictures I could find was cjonny's sale on this forum for his Major with Ti burrs, and there was very little indication of wear on them.

I wasn't sure if the markings on the side (CF) and what appears to be a serial indicated that these were genuine or not, and to give the seller the benefit of the doubt he never actually stated that the burrs were OEM Mazzer, just that they were new! I tried to remove the upper burr but the screws are totally jammed, again indicating that these haven't been changed in a while.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

risky said:


> I tried to remove the upper burr but the screws are totally jammed, again indicating that these haven't been changed in a while.


or that the crews had been overtightened by someone who doesn't really know what they are doing!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> or that the crews had been overtightened by someone who doesn't really know what they are doing!


Half the bloody screws are actually missing. Two from the top of the doser which I'm not sure what they are supposed to hold. One from the collar, again no idea what these do as the one that is there doesn't go into anything? And one missing from the bottom of the doser to hold the tamper. All in all I think it's a very half arsed refurbishment. The 'bar' that is attached to the adjustment collar is rusty. It would have taken 30 seconds with a bit of emery to tidy it up.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> or that the crews had been overtightened by someone who doesn't really know what they are doing!


Absolutely, so easy, as Alloy grabs when overtightened, making them much harder to undo!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Seller has got back to me:



> 'I can only think this has happened when I tested it, it must have got damp or something similar. I can send you a new set of titanium blades for you to fit or refund some money, please let me know which you would prefer.'


Not sure how plausible the explanation is. I suppose it is possible the guy really crashed the burrs together when testing and/or got some chemical cleaner on it?

What are your thoughts guys? It would obviously avoid the hassle of sending it back. Maybe better to take a monetary refund and put it towards a set of genuine mazzer burrs (non-Ti) rather than the presumably after-market Ti ones he is offering.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Id take the titanium blade KERCHING, dont believe his explanation for a minute


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Id take the titanium blade KERCHING, dont believe his explanation for a minute


How much do aftermarket Ti blades go for? I can only find 'genuine' ones on eBay


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Maybe ask him to send a pic of the new titanium blades first in case his idea of new is like the ones on the grinder.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> Seller has got back to me:
> 
> Not sure how plausible the explanation is. I suppose it is possible the guy really crashed the burrs together when testing and/or got some chemical cleaner on it?
> 
> What are your thoughts guys? It would obviously avoid the hassle of sending it back. Maybe better to take a monetary refund and put it towards a set of genuine mazzer burrs (non-Ti) rather than the presumably after-market Ti ones he is offering.


Overtightened screws - some missing? Do you really need to think about this? Get a refund and contact Coffeechap - he will be able to sort you a grinder that has been properly and carefully refurbished.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

Hmm...no idea how he would have managed to get the burrs wet, strange excuse...

Refund all day long if I were you....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mr O said:


> Hmm...no idea how he would have managed to get the burrs wet, strange excuse...
> 
> Refund all day long if I were you....


Plus one


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Plus 2!

The seller is taking the p*ss


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Plus 2!
> 
> The seller is taking the p*ss


Or has spilt it on the burrs


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm with TSK too. IMHO I'd go for the refund and source an SJ from else where a bit more reliable.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Thanks very much for the help guys. I've messaged requesting to return the item so we will see what he says. He has a nearly 500 positive feedback rating to maintain after all.

The whole episode has made me rethink whether or not I really need a Super Jolly, it seems a bit impractical for someone who only drinks two coffees a day.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

I saw this SJ a while ago after it was fist listed, it put me off straight away when the pictures show it while it's just been sprayed.

Fleabay Ti burrs are around the £100 mark, Genuine Mazzer 'normal; SJ burrs (033M) are around the £20 to £25 price range) as I'm after some as well for mine. I'm not too bothered about getting Ti burrs for my SJ, simply for the cost factor.If the grinder is working fine apart from the burrs, then I'd get replacement Ti burrs from him, buy some genuine Mazzer ones off fleabay and flog the Ti ones for £75 and make £50. If they are genuine Mazzer ones he sends, then you've got a bargain.

Just to show you what my Ti burrs look like in my Major, here's a pic...










This is before I cleaned it, and it was caked in coffee (from a coffee shop that had closed down). There's no tarnishing on these, and they are sharp!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Or has spilt it on the burrs


Must be related to Alien then!!!!

PS OP - Get your money back and buy a decent one... If bolts/screws and what nots are missing you can't trust it as far as you can throw it... and Alien pish or not those burrs are sh*te!


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Actually, for what you paid, get your money back. There are better ones out there.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Seller has agreed to refund me. No quibbles.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Good result.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

risky said:


> Seller has agreed to refund me. No quibbles.


Run Forrest Run!!

Good result.


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

risky said:


> Seller has agreed to refund me. No quibbles.


Good stuff... If he agreed that easy he knows he's been busted (by CSI coffeeforums)

better luck with finding another one. Shouldn't be too difficult though..


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorted


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

For those who didn't see the sale thread, I bought a used but perfectly functioning (with good burrs) SJ from funinacup for considerably less money. I'm going to put a thread together soon with the various mods I'm going to do to it which will all be machined parts of mostly my own 'invention'. For now at least, back to grinding some coffee!









As a final update: The refund was finalised today and I've donated to the forum as some kind of token gesture of thanks for all your help with this issue! Thanks again guys!


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## Moka Fiend (Nov 5, 2021)

Dear All,

I would be very grateful for your opinion on the burrs shown in the photos below.

I posted in the Lounge details of a problem I've had obtaining a replacement upper burr from the supplier of my Ditting 807 Lab Sweet. Without rehashing the ins and outs of my dealings with the supplier, I thought piggy backing on this thread with just the specific details of the burr condition might provide some useful insights since the contributors in this thread are a self-selecting sample of people who have something to say about burrs ...

Attached are pictures of my upper and lower burrs on my Ditting. The damage you can see was noticed after 8 months of quite light use (approx 15Kg of beans have been through the machine) when I came to clean out the burrs for the first time. I currently have 3 other grinders which I use for fine/finer grinding so a) this explains why it took a while for me to do a burr clean and notice the damage on the Ditting and b) why it has only ever been used for coarse grinding.

Additional information - I have only ever used beans in this machine from a single, highly respected, roastery I have used for 20 years or so. Stupidly, in retrospect, I did not check the condition of the burrs when they first arrived (because the grinder was bought brand new) so I do not know if this was a pre-existing condition, or has occurred during the 15kg's worth of usage.

I have been told that Ditting's opinion is that "the most likely cause" of the damage is a foreign object. This does not make sense to me because there is no damage whatsoever to the lower burr, so I cannot envisage how an overly hard object could be engaged by the burr set and effect only the upper burr.

Any views?

Many thanks for your time!

Paul.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Top left of the lower burr looks marked in the pic. 

Have you took it out to look


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## Moka Fiend (Nov 5, 2021)

cuprajake said:


> Top left of the lower burr looks marked in the pic.
> 
> Have you took it out to look


I’m not sure which precise bit you’re referring to. There may be some shadow in the photo or a coffee granule but there are zero marks on the outer rim of the lower burr (which would correspond with the damage on the upper). There are some tiny marks around the breakers away from the rim, but they seem to be natural imperfections in the casting.

best,

Paul.


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