# What percentage of a machine should be spent on a grinder.



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Just a little thread to gauge what people think they should spend on a grinder as a percentage of the price of their machine and why?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can I reverse that, and ask what % of their grinder do they spend on a coffee machine? After all, the grinder is actually more important, though a lot of people do not think that


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Actually that is an interesting point as how many people actually consider the grinder at all when buying a machine, do people actually sacrifice the grinder for the machine?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

On this subject I always go back to the advice on Seattle Coffee Gear that suggested that you should factor in about half of you budget on the grinder. 200 bucks on an entry level grinder (quote Gail).

At the time when I was starting out with my obsession with coffee I thought they were mental. But as I've got into it more i've realised that that its probably as important (if not more) than what you pay for the coffee machine.

Certainly 50:50 for entry level e.g, classic and mc2. I think as the cost of the machine increases the relative cost of the grinder decreases. All IMHO.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

With people starting out I think it's definitely an after thought. Myself being one of those! Now Mignon owner via Porlex bay!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Interesting that your grinder is twice the price of your machine!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Interesting that your grinder is twice the price of your machine!


Important things grinders I've come to realise!


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

I did it the correct way, without realising at the time. I had a crappy Krupps machine and purchased a MC2. Discovered this forum and upgraded to a new Cherub. Then realised the grinder was the weak link, so got hold of a RR45. Happy now as this journey took only 5 months

I think most people, like me, stumble into this level of understanding/knowledge and it is a learning curve, dictated by finances. If you asked me with hindsight, which you are, I would say £500 min for grinder, new or a decent quality second hand commercial. As a percentage of machine cost, well that's not really that relevant as the the sky is the limit there as style can overtake substance?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Well the MC2 was bought new and cost me more than my Classic did and then I sold the MC2 and bought the RR55-OD which cost almost twice as much as the Classic.

I guess the original question only really holds good if you are buying both grinder and machine brand new, as something like a Brewtus or a Rocket would be quite happy paired with a £300 decent used commercial grinder and we have people here with expensive machines that are still extremely happy with their mignons and varios.

For me if I was doing it again I would certainly go down the route of a used commercial grinder and would have no objections to a used machine either.


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## bignorry (Mar 19, 2013)

I bought my Gaggia Baby then Starbucks Barista ,so 20% of machine price.Then by finding this forum and CC,I jumped to a Super Jolly which does me well now with my Little Gem.But I know further down the road I will make the upgrade with the grinder.


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

I think it depends on the money spent (law of diminishing returns etc.)

Up to a point, a more expensive grinder will make a big difference (similar dilemma with a machine).

I noticed a bigger difference switching from flats to conicals personally.

On its day my £200 pharos could give me a grind very similar to my Kony Electronic.

You can also start looking at practicality, retention, distribution etc.

Undoubtably, the grinder is much more important than people first think.

But past £400-£500 you are not going to see 'huge' gains imho.

I would happily use a £500 grinder with a £1800 duetto (at least until upgraditus kicks in







)


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

My machine was £1200 and managed to put £700 in my grinder pot so far, have not got a clue what to get yet! though i am not totally unhappy with the Mignon


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Charliej said:


> For me if I was doing it again I would certainly go down the route of a used commercial grinder and would have no objections to a used machine either.


Totally agree with Charliej on this point. Buying used allows you pick up some much better kit for a lower price. If you've got the space an ex commercial grinder will give you great value compared to buying the same one new. I understand that used isn't for every one but that's just my 2ps worth.

I think the grinder should be thought of at the very beginning of the set up and be included in the overall budget.

If you have a budget of £400 then you should be spending at least half of it or more (as in my case







) on the grinder as you'll get better results IMHO.

Why don't you do a used guide for people setting up with say 3 price bands and pair grinder with machines?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Why don't you do a used guide for people setting up with say 3 price bands and pair grinder with machines?


That's is a good idea! I will have a look at putting something together.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

In my opinion, unless you're buying a speedster you could quite reasonably spend more on your grinder, however the second grinders on here are a way round that, my machine (new) £1100 my grinder used is not too far of that. I guess 80-110% would be a realistic comparative price for the grinder.

Used is the way to go on here, friendly advice, well looked after machines and realistic prices.

I like the analogy of the camera, with the machine being the body and the grinder the lens, use a stock lens you'll get a picture, use a premium lens coupled with increased knowledge then it's a different ball game altogether.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

At the Classic end though, it is difficult because of its low entry point into the market. If you put an initial ceiling on, of say £500 for a machine (sorry Classic owners, not being rude to you here) then it opens up the question a bit more.

I think a lot of people imagine that their shiny coffee machine will make a great cuppa without considering the grinder.

You can only bake a cake with the ingredients you put into the oven!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Here is the thing for me with grinders.

I have been here long enough to have read (repeatedly







) about how important they are. But if I hadn't won the raffle for a Mignon I would still be using my MC2, even though it is no match for my recently acquired Expobar Pulsar.

I accept that the really expensive grinders out there do a better job, but the fact that they cost as much, if not more than the coffee machine just doesn't seem logical. How is it that you can build a coffee machine that requires accurate temperature, high pressure cast metal parts, reliability etc and then expect to spend the same kinda amount on a machine with a motor and a spinning burr.

It seems to me that the markup on a grinder must be substantially more than on a coffee machine, if you add up the sum of their parts. I think it partially (/mostly) this that I object to.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As others have said the value of you machine makes the biggest difference, along with your brewing method ( espresso , aeropress , brew ) .

Ill talk about espresso brewing and its what I have most of my very limited experience in.

If brewing espresso and you are lucky enough to get a £50 gaggia , then unless you go hand grinder route , you will be looking at spending more on an entry level electronic grinder ( mc2 still around £80 on here ) , thank your machine .

There are grinders out there sub £100 advertised as espresso and as we all know , they are not capable . One of the best , and yet hardest things we can do to help people coming into the world of espresso is to help with a suitable purchase for a grinder . By this I mean , within their budget and space requirements, meeting their expectations in what taste it will deliver, and understanding the plus and pro points of different grinders ( doser , non doser, clumpyness, noise , ease of use, single dose capability , mods needed , resale value ) .

You see a lot of mc2 moved on quickly, as people move on from them for a variety of reasons. If bought second hand not too much money is lost , if bought new then money will get dumped on resale , which is a dam shame for the purchaser. Worse than that someone may just give up on coffee as they can't get the taste and ease of use they want from incorrectly matched equipment, not talking about mc2 here , but those £50 , all in one grinders . That's an even greater shame as they world of coffee is lost to them.

As other have pointed out tho there is a dimenshing returns beyond a certain level spent on a grinder, but no more so than with tampers ( is a £100 tamper twice as good as a £50 one ) , and higher level e61 machines to one degree. For a lot of us though , those incremental improvements are worth the extra cash spent,for some they aren't .

In the end if the coffee you a make satisfies your taste buds with the equipment you have , it's all good isn't it ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ignoring the one upmanship that goes on, then budget will have the biggest say. I suppose mentally, if you had £1500 to spend on both, you would go £500 and £1000 and then see what you can get.

the Grind Off showed quite clearly, that at the first level of the market, the Mignon was a clear winner, even though it has small burrs and a bit of clumping. The next step up is to small commercials and by their name, it is not fair to expect a small domestic grinder to compete. So, then the argument about space and funds comes in. A lot of people plump for the SJ which seems a natural choice, but again, it has been proven that there are better second hand grinders there for less.

Some machines are very grind specific. If you pair a Sylvia with an MC2 the results will not be good.

So, what is the answer? If you are buying a machine and grinder together, then you have to consider them as a package. If you are upgrading one or the other, then the same applies. The grinder is more important than the machine, IMHO, but thats not to say you have to have a £2000 grinder. The HG One and Pharos have disproved that. If you can be bothered with the faff on, the end results can be stunning


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

For me it was:

Machine - £1,100

Grinder - £600

Ancillaries: £200

Since upgraded the machine but apart from new burrs, my Mazzer Mini Electronic A is still going strong!

Money spent on a quality grinder is, IMHO, never money wasted!

David

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I wish I'd know before my first purchase, I had a europiccola and an I2 the machine did not like that grinder one bit, I am not saying the grinder was bad, it just did not suit the machine.

I hope I'm upgraditis free for a while now though, well from next week at least.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> That's is a good idea! I will have a look at putting something together.


Whether it would be possible or not , it might worth demonstrating new price versus old and potential resale value .

Not sure ho you would do this. You could for each bracket have RRP , a guideline or expectations for a good reconditioned secondhand one ,along with perhaps a comment on 2nd hand availability ( perhaps along the line of mc2 , pop up all the time , konys - hens teeth) . If you were going to get really complicated perhaps comments on ability to single dose, camera hood nod needed, price of replacement burrs.

Perhaps I've gone to far..........


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

So for what it's worth here is my take.

This forum has actually come round to the idea of bigger grinders in the kitchen, most people assume that the commercial end of the market is just to big and ugly and I fully appreciate that this has a big input into many users kitchen setup, yet with ingenuity and mods the biggest grinders can be made a lot smaller.

Now bigger doesn't necessarily mean more expensive but it stands to reason that bigger grinders probably have more expensive higher capacity components. But generally what bigger means is the ability to grind much more consistently and at slower spin speeds thus caressing the beans not just mashing them up. This is where cost starts to come into into it as bigger motors and burrs are more expensive to produce.

However I feel that a lot of people want a new or nearly new machine, which stands to reason as they are not as robust as grinders and the older they get the more likely that are to the odd mishap. With grinders, especially commercial it is different as great quality second hand commercials can be got a very reasonable prices, and if you consider the new price point of all items bought then a second hand grinder of exceptional quality eg Mazzer royal it super caimano can be got for less than £500. Alternatively as others have proved even the most expensive grinders eg mythos can be got for much much less than half price!

Is it our fixation with new shiney things that lowers the possible standards that can be achieved? refurbing a large grinder, even repainting it to a kitchen specific colour is not difficult and can open up a whole new flavour profile that a mignon and vario cannot achieve ( by the way I really rate the mignon at its price and size point).

I like the analogy that Geordie used, I like to compare it music equipment, your system is only as good as the weakest link, sometimes that link is the user! But most if the time it is the simple grinder!

Bottom line, I spent the same on both machine and grinder and love the results.....


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

There is no real right answer to this question. Depends on your machine and your budget - budget restraint is the big one for many people. And the law of diminishing returns certainly applies here. However, coffeechap is completely right when he says that if we forget about new and shiney and can put up with the size, there are some absolute bargains on the second hand commercial market. You can pick up a superb Mazzer SJ or Camiano dirt cheap nowadays as well as a whole host of trademarks that are not household names. Living in Spain, I have picked up a few grinders for between 100 and 200 euros that do not turn up on these boards. They are probably just rebadged grinders put in bars by 'majoristas' (wholesalers). They are wonderful machines but may be a bit ugly. However, the quality of the grind is unbeatable. In the end it is a face off between budget - practicality - looks.

The best advice is to buy the best your budget allows and remember the importance of the grinder in the equation.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I initially though that I could get champagne coffee for rola cola money which I quickly realised was not the case. Taking on the analogies that have been made on this and other threads your output is very much defined by your inputs. My intro post asked (as many have previously) if a blender type grinder would do the job. At the time I saw coffee as this dark brown powder that you poured water through rather than the key part of the process.

I dare say that the members day will be an eye opener for me and will be the start of another upgrade quest. Or maybe I wont be able to taste the difference. Whats betting its the former ?


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Me? Second hand SJ and aerobie. No espresso machine and undecided if I will get one - looking forward to being "persuaded" a week tomorrow


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

I'm just starting with my obsession with coffee and have seen the advice on Seattle Coffee Gear and several over review sites that made me change my mind on which grinder, you will probably laugh but i was going to purchase the Bodum electric grinder, i have grown up a little since then though, I was going to buy the Rocky Rancilio, but have changed my mind again having read some advice on this forum. Now I'm thinking a Baratza (mahlkonig) Vario, which really is stretching the budget to the limit. I'm keen to learn if buying the right grinder.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Save a £100 and buy a Mignon.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ooooooo, Vikki you have opened up Pandora's box.....

If size is an issue then I would plump for the eureka mignon, but if not then a second hand fully refurbished commercial is insight at vario prices


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Quite a few SJ owners on here now, but have not seen any one with the on demand model. never seen any on ebay either. Are they a poor substitute to the old RR55


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

I was around 50:50 starting out with Silvia and Mazzer Mini. They are well matched as a modest home setup.


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

I have read all the comments above and now my head really is in a spin! I had decided on the Rancilio Sylvia V3 paired with the Vario. Sadly, my budget is £800 for both machine and grinder and this is stretching it! Also, are the Baratza and the Vario the same grinder. I have to confess I have not heard of Mignon, and yes space is an issue i'm afraid. I really am a newby to the espresso world and never thought of buying second hand and I must admit I am a bit reluctant to do so

Presently, I'm making americanos with my little Bialetti moka pot. I love liqueur coffee's which i make with my Melitta Aroma Excellent, (well researched as the best drip machine) but miss making latte and cappuccino for which i know you need a really good espresso. Advice is much appreciated


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dont worry , we are here to help !

There's a lot to decide , I understand the reluctance to buy second hand , but alot of stuff gets sold on here , check the sales threads and look at the glowing feedback nearly everyone gets. Members look after their stuff and are trustworthy. I've bought grinders on here and been very happy .

I believe one of the members on here is getting ready to sell their silvia v3 , so may be worth waiting for that. if space if a issue for your grinder and you want new , then eureka mignion comes highly recommended by a lot of owners and previous owners on here. It's compact comes in a range of colours and is nice looking.

I am linking a review by a respected guy , it's totally independant , it's a little older but till gives you am idea of how the mignion compares with the baratza .

Give it a read , come back and don't be afraid to ask questions .

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/compact-grinder-1-closerlook.pdf


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Vikki said:


> I have read all the comments above and now my head really is in a spin! I had decided on the Rancilio Sylvia V3 paired with the Vario. Sadly, my budget is £800 for both machine and grinder and this is stretching it! Also, are the Baratza and the Vario the same grinder. I have to confess I have not heard of Mignon, and yes space is an issue i'm afraid. I really am a newby to the espresso world and never thought of buying second hand and I must admit I am a bit reluctant to do so
> 
> Presently, I'm making americanos with my little Bialetti moka pot. I love liqueur coffee's which i make with my Melitta Aroma Excellent, (well researched as the best drip machine) but miss making latte and cappuccino for which i know you need a really good espresso. Advice is much appreciated


There are a few forum members not a million miles away from your location. You could do a few home visits for some hands-on inpiration?!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> There are a few forum members not a million miles away from your location. You could do a few home visits for some hands-on inpiration?!


That's a great way to get some hand on experience. I was lucky enough to have someone to visit before buying my last set up .


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## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

There is a brasillia on ebay at £135 BIN. Great grinder for the price

IMO you can pick up some great commercial buys if you're willing to look beyond Mazzers and a grinder meant for commercial use will be pretty much bullet proof


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Padder said:


> There is a brasillia on ebay at £135 BIN. Great grinder for the price
> 
> IMO you can pick up some great commercial buys if you're willing to look beyond Mazzers and a grinder meant for commercial use will be pretty much bullet proof


Agree , but if totally new to espresso , I can understand why you would want to buy new or from somewhere trusted. You don't want to lumber the poor lady with changing burrs etc . If you don't know what what to look out for , buying on ebay can be a shot in the dark.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Agree , but if totally new to espresso , I can understand why you would want to buy new or from somewhere trusted. You don't want to lumber the poor lady with changing burrs etc . If you don't know what what to look out for , buying on ebay can be a shot in the dark.


totally agree, Ebay is a lucky dip. If it was my 1st set up i would want new, then possibly upgrade to 2nd hand.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

My opinion is as much as possible on the grinder. I think a classic + at least double cost for the grinder is a good beginner. Get hooked, save like crazy and try to buy something you won't replace easily (machine and grinder). Although Half the fun is upgrading or trying new stuff. Some on here change stuff more often than I change my pants . However using this forum to buy and sell is great. You get a fair price and it goes to a good home.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> There are a few forum members not a million miles away from your location. You could do a few home visits for some hands-on inpiration?!


I am always up for visitors if you want to check out a Pile of kit, would at least show you where to look, oh and am just north of Swindon when in the uk


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Unfortunately I don't have Silvia or Mazzer with me here otherwise would have been happy to demo


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

painty said:


> Unfortunately I don't have Silvia or Mazzer with me here otherwise would have been happy to demo


What's your set up painty ?


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

In their boxes in a storage unit 120 mi away :/


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

painty said:


> In their boxes in a storage unit 120 mi away :/


Oh dear! How come ?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

If you can wait a week you could also come along to the members day at Bella Barista. They've got Machines and grinders there including Mignons. I'm going along to try pick up some tips ( and obviously meet folk from the forum).

I don't know if anyone is bringing any grinders.

Could be dangerous going there with money in your pocket!







I managed to buy a Mignon on the day I got an unexpected bonus at work and also happened to speak to Claudette from Bella Barista.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Oh dear! How come ?


Aw just logistics with contract working has meant it's easier to keep things in storage at present. Can't wait to get everything reunited and fired up again


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

painty said:


> Aw just logistics in contract working has meant it's easier to keep things in storage at present. Can't wait to get everything reunited and fired up again


I bet! What's in the boxes anyway ?


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Espresso-wise just Silvia and mini, though I have a Heavenly too. Plus a few syphons, mokas, FPs etc.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

painty said:


> Espresso-wise just Silvia and mini, though I have a Heavenly too. Plus a few syphons, mokas, FPs etc.


Cool, hope your reunited soon. Where are you working currently then ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> If you can wait a week you could also come along to the members day at Bella Barista. They've got Machines and grinders there including Mignons. I'm going along to try pick up some tips ( and obviously meet folk from the forum).
> 
> I don't know if anyone is bringing any grinders.
> 
> ...


I will be taking along a few things, including levers and grinders, so should be loads there to play with


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> I will be taking along a few things, including levers and grinders, so should be loads there to play with


Excellent, I'm getting excited. Hopefully I can learn how to tamp better and make decent micro foam too.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Does the RR55 sell under another name/trademark in Spain? It's one I'm interested in adding to my collection. As for the SJ, I'm just about to add my third SJ to my collection of grinders having found a mint one for 250 euros - which, whatever way you look at it, is too good an offer to turn down.

Talking of Spanish machines - I have two electronic azkoyen grinders. Anyone know anything about them? The grind quality seems great but they seem to retain and then spit out a lot of grind.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Azkoyen's have a function where they grind a dose and then another that stays behind the flap ready for the next shot, I think you can disable this function.


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

Thank you urbanbumpkin for your help, I'm just about to look at the Eureka Mignon that you recommend. I have to admit that I would rather buy a new Sylvia V3 as I'm not particularly mechanically minded if anything goes wrong! I'm quite happy with the decision on the Sylvia so its just the grinder to make the final decision on. Thank you for your advice, I did try and send you a message but because im new I could reply to earlier message. Its a bit of a dilemma where to buy the Sylvia from new though, so any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Vikki said:


> Thank you urbanbumpkin for your help, I'm just about to look at the Eureka Mignon that you recommend. I have to admit that I would rather buy a new Sylvia V3 as I'm not particularly mechanically minded if anything goes wrong! I'm quite happy with the decision on the Sylvia so its just the grinder to make the final decision on. Thank you for your advice, I did try and send you a message but because im new I could reply to earlier message. Its a bit of a dilemma where to buy the Sylvia from new though, so any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


I have had a Mignon for over 3 years or so, its a great little grinder which takes up hardly any space. easy to use and look after. you can get to the burrs without changing the grinder setting. I got my Silvia(when i had one) from Myespresso.co.uk which came with a 2 year warranty at the time. hes not liked by some on here, but i had no problems with him, just got to be firm ( i had to return a faulty rocky)


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Vikki, Drude will be selling his 5 month old silvia as soon as his new machine arrives, so still has warranty and will probably be a great deal, so could save time and effort hunting down a retailer.


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

I was going to buy the Rocky grinder to go with the Sylvia but since reading comments on here that there are much better grinders out now for a similar price it has made me rethink a bit. I have just looked at the article on bella barista site comparing the Vario and the Mignon, although the review is a bit old, it favours the Mignon. So you think it is a much better purchase too? Im not really that bothered about how it looks, although the Vario does look more attractive, I would rather have the grinder that produces the better result than looks! Thank you for your advice.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Vikki said:


> I was going to buy the Rocky grinder to go with the Sylvia but since reading comments on here that there are much better grinders out now for a similar price it has made me rethink a bit. I have just looked at the article on bella barista site comparing the Vario and the Mignon, although the review is a bit old, it favours the Mignon. So you think it is a much better purchase too? Im not really that bothered about how it looks, although the Vario does look more attractive, I would rather have the grinder that produces the better result than looks! Thank you for your advice.


For a small grinder, in that price range , then mignion wins !


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Vikki, Drude will be selling his 5 month old silvia as soon as his new machine arrives, so still has warranty and will probably be a great deal, so could save time and effort hunting down a retailer.


 That sounds like a good idea, I will feel happier having some warranty on it. I will have a look. Thank you.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Vikki said:


> That sounds like a good idea, I will feel happier having some warranty on it. I will have a look. Thank you.


Just keep an eye on the for sale thread or even pm him as you have enough posts now, to see what the deal is...


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

There are probably people on here who can tell you the difference between the vario & the mignon, sorry i can not. but i found a big difference between the Mignon and the rocky in the cup. Dont rush it, do some more home work before parting with monies


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

Will it grind for French press and drip coffee well too, I have a Melitta Aroma Excellent to make liqueur coffee's frequently!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Neither the mignon nor the vario like to adjust between grinds, most will say that no grinders are great at both and to perhaps get a hario for brewed coffee, in the size range you are looking at, you won't really fins an easily adjustable grinder to go between the settings, however move up to a commercial and this changes, as a mazzer for example can be used to single dose, so no coffee left in the grinder and can be easily adjusted between grind settings, espresso to French press and back once you know your settings.


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## Vikki (Sep 19, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Neither the mignon nor the vario like to adjust between grinds, most will say that no grinders are great at both and to perhaps get a hario for brewed coffee, in the size range you are looking at, you won't really fins an easily adjustable grinder to go between the settings, however move up to a commercial and this changes, as a mazzer for example can be used to single dose, so no coffee left in the grinder and can be easily adjusted between grind settings, espresso to French press and back once you know your settings.


Thank you that's useful to know perhaps I will keep my Dualit EL 60 for brewed/French press, and the new grinder solely for espresso. I know I have a lot to learn, getting the right grind, tamping, temperature surfing! ( when I do get the Sylvia) but its all exciting and its nice to know that I can ask for help here, which is going to be great!


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Vikki said:


> Thank you that's useful to know perhaps I will keep my Dualit EL 60 for brewed/French press, and the new grinder solely for espresso. I know I have a lot to learn, getting the right grind, tamping, temperature surfing! ( when I do get the Sylvia) but its all exciting and its nice to know that I can ask for help here, which is going to be great!


I think that may be the best idea. I'm not sure what the Dualit is like to be honest but if you find it acceptable then keeping it for coarser grind coffees seems sensible. I have more than one grinder at home - a Mazzer mini in the house (the biggest grinder wife lets me have inside!) but a few more in some outhouses we have and have them set up for different coffee and 'experiments'. If I had to continually adjust it would be a pain, especially when I'm dialled in for my espresso.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Once I'd decided that I wanted to try the real coffee experience I thought the machine was the most important thing; well that's where the shots are pulled right? So I had a budget of a couple of hundred quid and took time to look on the web, joined this forum to see what seemed to be a popular starter machine at such a ridiculously low price; for something that could produce good real coffee, and the Gaggia Classic seemed to be the one.

I had no qualms going second hand especially as now payment on places such as Ebay or Amazon are protected, and I must admit I struck lucky finding a machine that was fitted with the Silvia wand and PID for my budget and the seller was so honest and generous even sending me a bottomless portafilter for free, after I had already paid for the machine. Excited I wanted to pull a shot as quick as possible and bought pre-ground coffee and it was then when I realised that an espresso machine without a decent grinder was about as useful as a car without wheels.

Again I had a comparatively small budget only slightly more than I had for my espresso machine, but knew I had to get the best my budget would allow. So second,third or even fourth hand I wasn't bothered as long as I got value for money and wasn't ripped off. This is where places like this forum have become so invaluable. Solid advice, even finding someone who had a grinder for sale that went way beyond my expectations for the money I had.

My grinder new, cost over four times than my first espresso machine but I only actually paid about an extra £60 because I was prepared to go second hand. Because of that, I've managed to get a grinder that will do an espresso machine that cost quadruple what I paid for my Gaggia, real justice.

So as for what percentage my experience doesn't really answer that but I don't think it should be looked at that way anyway. You can't say 10, 20, 30 or 50 percent, because you can get a real decent shot from a cheaper espresso machine using a great grinder, than you can having an espresso machine costing the earth and a grinder not capable of producing a good grind.

Well that's my humble very inexperienced answer for what it's worth.


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