# 'Upgradeitis' prevention.



## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Doing some www surfing/research, I fell upon this 2008 article from the Grauniad.

I suggest it should be compulsory reading if you suspect you may be about to suffer from'Upgradeitis'.

It wont cure it, but it may just bring a level of common sense into being.

Or not!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2008/mar/19/foodanddrink1


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Batian said:


> Doing some www surfing/research, I fell upon this 2008 article from the Grauniad.
> 
> I suggest it should be compulsory reading if you suspect you may be about to suffer from'Upgradeitis'.
> 
> ...


Haha! I wonder which forum he used!!!!


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Haha Tim Hayward gave up too easily.

This upgradeitis is certainly not rational. I get very good shots from my set up, I personally think they're better than what I'm served at the majority of "specialty" coffee shops however I still spend far too much time on eBay looking for my next machine and I've invested in the Niche grinder which I'll probably find I don't like as much as my current grinder. Professional help may be required!


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Not had my set up a year yet and totally happy with at mo, hoping R58 lasts years as was an investment. Can see maybe upgrading grinder at some point.

i have had this disease lol with motorbikes and things like gadgets phones, realise after usually it wasn't worth it. Not sure how things advance in coffee world but expect a slower pace thankfully.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I don't think upgraiditis is curable. Not unless you go off coffee.

I've had my setup (Gaggia Classic and Eureka Mignon) for 2 whole weeks and will admit to eyeing up shiny, new machines and thinking that the Niche grinder might be worth keeping an eye on... I am having a new kitchen installed soon and can't help thinking that new kitchens require new, shiny gadgets.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Kitkat said:


> I don't think upgraiditis is curable. Not unless you go off coffee.
> 
> I've had my setup (Gaggia Classic and Eureka Mignon) for 2 whole weeks and will admit to eyeing up shiny, new machines and thinking that the Niche grinder might be worth keeping an eye on... I am having a new kitchen installed soon and can't help thinking that new kitchens require new, shiny gadgets.


More importantly make sure you design your new kitchen with a large enough area and height clearance to allow for future upgrades.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

lee1980 said:


> Not had my set up a year yet and totally happy with at mo, hoping R58 lasts years as was an investment. Can see maybe upgrading grinder at some point.
> 
> i have had this disease lol with motorbikes and things like gadgets phones, realise after usually it wasn't worth it. Not sure how things advance in coffee world but expect a slower pace thankfully.


The R58 is a very nice looking machine that will make excellent coffee but unfortunately I don't think any of these gadgets are investments.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

sounds like Tim didn't really like coffee and didn't really know very much!

P.S. Probably using supermarket beans...


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> sounds like Time didn't really like coffee and didn't really know very much!
> 
> P.S. Probably using supermarket beans...


And he didn't get a particularly bad dose of upgradeitus in my opinion.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MildredM said:


> And he didn't get a particularly bad dose of upgradeitus in my opinion.


I agree, in fact it's what we could call upgraditis light...just a toe in the water. I maintain your not a real coffee nerd until you have spent at least 3K and that's pretty much entry level nerdism. It's a bit like the wild west "there is always a faster gun"....in coffee, there is always someone who has spent more!

Once you add up the Machine, accessories, grinder (s), roaster (s), Mocca pots, harios, etc.. and all the accessories....it can make for a frightening amount of money. BUT one thing he failed to mention...it is also a hobby for many, not just a drink.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Nopapercup said:


> More importantly make sure you design your new kitchen with a large enough area and height clearance to allow for future upgrades.


Don't forget to install the water & waste feeds ready for when you want to plumb in too.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Nopapercup said:


> The R58 is a very nice looking machine that will make excellent coffee but unfortunately I don't think any of these gadgets are investments.


Hehe I didn't mean as in get a return or anything, just compared a more expensive bean to cup that i was going to get this should all be more repairable and that to.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

All hobbies are like this. You can spend any amount of money on any hobby and still be dissatisfied, equally you can spend a modest amount and be completely happy.

I think he fell a fair way down the rabbit hole if he was modding machines, even fairly cheap ones.

When there are people spending the price of a small car on something they use less than 20 times a week (as a hifi nerd I know people have spent the price of a House on kit...) it's a very very small community in the scheme of things, and few people will understand, and even fewer will agree.

I've relegated eBay to a second list of apps. Makes it just inconvenient enough to stop me browsing too often


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

lee1980 said:


> Hehe I didn't mean as in get a return or anything, just compared a more expensive bean to cup that i was going to get this should all be more repairable and that to.


True with a bit of maintenance the R58 should last a lifetime


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## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

It's common across many activities and is driven mostly by a desire to learn, which is healthy I think. It's constrained by available budget but not defined by it - you don't have to spend 3k on coffee making to learn a lot and greatly improve what you drink anymore than you have to spend 50k on a hifi to enjoy good music.

I've had various expensive compulsions since I was a teenager - model aeroplanes, hifi, bass guitar/performing/recording, sailing (dinghies then bigger boats), self-building, coffee... all seem to be characterised by a massive choice of stuff to buy all of which begs the nagging question "will this make me sound/play/sail/live/taste better/faster and have more fun"? We're very very lucky to live in a part of the world where we have the wealth and freedom to indulge in such things.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

Nopapercup said:


> More importantly make sure you design your new kitchen with a large enough area and height clearance to allow for future upgrades.


Definitely got one eye on where to put coffee stuff (and future stuff!).


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

In my opinion most of the entry-mid level espresso grinders are quite crap it's very hard to get decent extractions with them. Add to this the temperature instability of entry level machines and it makes it even harder. It's not a surprise people get bad results with them. If you were given good equipment, good coffee and some basic training from the start I think most people should be able to produce a quite tasty shot.

I think you can prevent Upgraditits to some extent by spending your money right and really understand what spending more money will get you. For example, you might have a grinder which can reach a certain extraction and no more, so you can get one which is capable of more, or change its burrs or so. You can also spend it on a better tamper or baskets. If you already have a good espresso machine just upgrading it is likely not to give you better shots, since your machine is pretty much constrained by what your grinder can produce.


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## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Kitkat said:


> Definitely got one eye on where to put coffee stuff (and future stuff!).


THIS is where it gets expensive - 3k for the machine and grinder, 15-20k remodelling the kitchen to build the koffee korner


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

He certainly didn't dig too deep


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Stanic said:


> He certainly didn't dig too deep


I'm not entirely sure a Silvia is an upgrade on a La Pav either.


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

The answer is to stop fighting it. Give in to it. Just let it take over.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The collectibleupograditis of this thread reminded me of Action Man..All the other kids had an Action man, expensive and loads of nice accessories to buy for a lot of money. There was always a kid with more stuff than you.. e.g. the jeep could be likened to a flash grinder and the tank a Roaster.

Me I got this! It's very sad as I was hoping for an action man, but my parents were poor. As you can imagine on the accessories front....there was really no where to go. many of us are frightened of getting the "Johnnie goes to war" of coffee machines and buy prosumer beasts which encourage lots more spend and kit that will be with us for a lifetime. Suprisingly I didn't keep my "Johnnie Goes to War" and never got an Action Man...*but I have sure made up for it with Coffee Kit.*


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

As a kid I had most fun with a knife and a lighter, alone in the woods close to the town


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Stanic said:


> As a kid I had most fun with a knife and a lighter, alone in the woods close to the town


That would get you some time in a youth offenders institute now...wiv free holidays!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Lol and I haven't mentioned that I used to roam the forest when I was supposed to be in the church - best Saturday evenings ever







thank god for religious grandma and atheist parents


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just thinking about what must drive the need to want better things...a bit in line with my previous post...I think it all starts as a child. I never got the action man ever...nail 1 in the coffin. The second nail in the coffin was this:

I had been dreaming about a Scalextric set all year I wanted it so bad I could taste it. Christmas finally came (I was 9), there was a huge box below the tree ( I had actually seen it wrapped under the parents bed some weeks ago) and I just knew is was the biggest baddest Scalextric set ever. There were a few other smaller boxes with a pencil case some colouring pencils and a chocolate selection pack....then came the great moment. I shouted "Scalextric, thanks Mum, thanks Dad" and ripped the wrapping off! I got this.........















The car was battery operated as well! As you can see it was thrilling.....

Things had been tough that year and my dad had been out of work for a while....I think he felt quite bad about it and 2 years later, I did get my (small, but great) long awaited Scalextric set. The fact that I remember all this nearly 50 years later says a lot for the way childhood events shape us and potentially our need for upgradeitis. *The one important thing I did get out of all this was sometimes events and circumstances mean we can't always get what we want as the money is not there. Years later you will look back on it and realise it didn't really matter. When things are tight, we should be happy with what we have got and to never borrow money for frivolities if possible. With espresso machines...sure it may not be the latest and greatest, but it's yours and if you didn't over extend to get it...respect!*


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Really sorry dave,haha


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Ian has similar experiences, DavecUK. He was promised a Raleigh Chopper cycle one year, it didn't materialise. A few other similar things ensued but I think the most harmful (and you are so right about that, childhood experiences and all that) was when his dad promised jam roly poly pudding. He didn't have jam. If I just say tomato ketchup . . .

I can remember drooling over the Lelit Anita machine well before I ever, ever thought we'd have the spare cash to buy one. And my first iPad, not very many years ago - best Birthday ever!! My first mobile phone was a treat when I'd come off a drug (prescribed, I hasten to add!) and remained off it for a year.

I am glad you got your Skalextric set and also one day realised it didn't even matter


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Best cure for upgraditis is to go temporarily nuts, blow a wad of cash then blame it on the voices afterwards









Job done, no more upgraditis... erm... til next time


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

Stanic said:


> Lol and I haven't mentioned that I used to roam the forest when I was supposed to be in the church - best Saturday evenings ever
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was this only on nights with a full moon? Pretty sure this could qualify you as the forum's first and only werewolf member. Maybe @Glenn could do you a special badge


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

When I opened this thread it was somewhat 'tongue in cheek' referencing the Grauniad article whilst poking some fun at ourselves. We Brits are great at that!

But the thread has slightly mutated, and now there is now an 'elephant in the room' that has been touched on by other contributers.

This elephant also has a sister in the Niche Grinder thread.

( https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?39577-Niche-Grinder/page76 )

So as the OP, I will address the elephant. I emphasise it is not intended to cause offence.

Is "upgradeitis" more to do with 'look what I can afford' and the need to gloat and flaunt wealth, than is the actual practical needs of an upgrade?

My answer to that question in both threads is that you have to cut your cloth according to what can be afforded whatever your position in life, and the Christian "Tenth Commandment" has relevance?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Batian said:


> When I opened this thread it was somewhat 'tongue in cheek' referencing the Grauniad article whilst poking some fun at ourselves. We Brits are great at that!
> 
> But the thread has slightly mutated, and now there is now an 'elephant in the room' that has been touched on by other contributers.
> 
> ...


I'd guess it's partly striving to get a better cup of coffee, partly something new just for a change / can (hopefully) afford it ( otherwise know as oohshiny syndrome ) & partly bragging rights or just fitting in because other suggest your equipment is lacking even though you're enjoying what you're producing.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

salty said:


> Was this only on nights with a full moon? Pretty sure this could qualify you as the forum's first and only werewolf member. Maybe @Glenn could do you a special badge


it surely was cool after spring DST change as it got dark earlier and the small campfires (sometimes not so small







) were much more fun


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

In my case I was able to afford something that I'd only dreamt of, that came up at the right time for me. I've shown it off, who wouldn't. Now it's switched on every time I go to my house and I'm actually getting through more coffee now (and enjoying it) more than with my last coffee machine and grinder (even though they are good). If it comes out crap, I've only myself to blame as I've removed 2 parts of the equation..

It's not the most I've ever spent though.. I had to buy a house to put them in


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## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

I think I can see my upgrade path for the near future. Not about splashing the cash and most of my friends would be pretty unimpressed with expensive coffee gear as they're not really into coffee and wouldn't know how much it all cost. First on my list is PID for the Classic then I will hopefully be set for a while but I already have one eye on a grinder update and am keen to see how the Niche is received and whether it's as good as it sounds. If so, that may be my next upgrade. I should be happy for a while with that setup (famous last words). Although I won't deny I've been eyeing up double boiler machines. For me it's about the pursuit of the perfect coffee, although at the moment I am not limited by my equipment (I am definitely the weakest link) and I acknowledge the law of diminishing returns.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

I have a Mazzer Mini which is the sensible maximum size for my small kitchen. That's why I'm thinking of a Mazzer Major....


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

les24preludes said:


> I have a Mazzer Mini which is the sensible maximum size for my small kitchen. That's why I'm thinking of a Mazzer Major....


Since when has 'sensible' ever been used when looking for a grinder. As long as it fits under the kitchen cabinets, then it's fine. If it doesn't then either cut a hole in the bottom of the offending cabinet, or pull it off the wall.. Job done









The Major incidentally isn't much bigger than a Super Jolly.. and you don't need a hopper on if you're single dosing.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Rhys said:


> Since when has 'sensible' ever been used when looking for a grinder. As long as it fits under the kitchen cabinets, then it's fine. If it doesn't then either cut a hole in the bottom of the offending cabinet, or pull it off the wall.. Job done
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Every time I see a pic of a mythos with a cut down hopper & wooden top I think 'ooh nice coffee (grinder) table'! Think it's the only way I'd be able to get one to fit.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

ashcroc said:


> Every time I see a pic of a mythos with a cut down hopper & wooden top I think 'ooh nice coffee (grinder) table'! Think it's the only way I'd be able to get one to fit.


One could simply put a cushion on an R120 and use it as a stool?


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## Mister_Tad (Feb 9, 2015)

les24preludes said:


> I have a Mazzer Mini which is the sensible maximum size for my small kitchen. That's why I'm thinking of a Mazzer Major....


Play the long game. An E37S with a short hopper is slightly sorter than your mini, thus raising your "sensible" bar that much higher and providing a stepping stone to something truly silly.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Could always get a Versalab/Terranova M3.. Quite compact


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Rhys said:


> Could always get a Versalab/Terranova M3.. Quite compact


Only very special folk have those !


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Rhys said:


> One could simply put a cushion on an R120 and use it as a stool?


You could, right up until the point you fancy a backrest, flip the lid and accidently hit the power button, grinding ones parts away









As far as "using grinders as seating" goes the Mythos with a cut down lid may be more comfortable height wise (as long as you remember to remove any handles, ouch!)

As to the latest question from OP and picking up on a number of other comments, I too had a childhood that was not full of the latest or greatest ( I once received a reel to reel machine from the 50's called an Elizabethan with only a mic input bought at an auction when what I was thinking was an Akai or similar!). Having had the debt levels of small countries in the past, cleared them all and now only buy what I have saved for / can afford, not to flaunt but to enjoy. I would never advise anyone to mortgage themselves for a cup of coffee, but if you can afford it then see no harm.

It is after all an infusion of water through beans (ish) and there are inexpensive ways as well as frightening ways to get it. Spend only what you can afford and you will never regret it enjoying what you have (this morning am off so have had 2 flat whites from the LII but now enjoying a HasBean Nicaraguan through a Kantan filter that cost 20p each, ignoring cost of grinder)










John


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

johnealey said:


> I too had a childhood that was not full of the latest or greatest ( I once received a reel to reel machine from the 50's called an Elizabethan with only a mic input bought at an auction when what I was thinking was an Akai or similar!). Having had the debt levels of small countries in the past....


You must have been a jazz musician....

Q. What do you call a jazz musician without a girlfriend?

A. Homeless....


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Batian said:


> Is "upgradeitis" more to do with 'look what I can afford' and the need to gloat and flaunt wealth, than is the actual practical needs of an upgrade?
> 
> My answer to that question in both threads is that you have to cut your cloth according to what can be afforded whatever your position in life, and the Christian "Tenth Commandment" has relevance?


In areas like this one I wonder how much cost influences a persons perception of the end result. Also if I could talk quietly and privately with some one who had just spent a lot of money on an "upgrade" if they would still insist that the results were really worth it.

John

-


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ajohn said:


> In areas like this one I wonder how much cost influences a persons perception of the end result. Also if I could talk quietly and privately with some one who had just spent a lot of money on an "upgrade" if they would still insist that the results were really worth it.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I don't need to talk quietly or in private to say the results for me personally ARE worth it. In every way, shape, form, in enjoyment of use, and result in the cup.

I think the question here should be: Does cost influence perception.

The cost influences our perception of a product, of course, and the purchase is made when I, as a buyer, decrees the prices matches the perceived value of that product.

I personally do not see how one person can form an opinion based on another thing they personally would not entertain because it does not meet the perceived value in their view.


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