# Finding a happy compromise



## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi all - new to the forums, so please be gentle with me!









I've spent a huge amount of time over the past few days reading through thread after thread on the boards and have learned a massive amount, so thanks for that in itself!

To give you a bit of background, I got myself into the world of coffee about 18 months ago now and have got to the point where I'm certainly addicted (!) but also want to take that next step.

I've been using a Dualit Espressivo machine up until this point and despite the fact I know it's not great, have spent enough time with it to get reasonable results. I tend to drink a mixture of both milk drinks and pure espresso, and have even managed to get what's close to microfoam out of the dreadful steam wand (the key to that was getting rid of the frothing assistant!).

So had my heart set on the Silvia to take the next step, plus another £130 or so to upgrade to a decent grinder, but then I spotted a flaw in my plan - the Silvia doesn't take ESE pods.

I know I need to clean my mouth out with soap







but whilst I love the ritual of making a proper coffee and imagine that this will even more be the case when I upgrade the machine and grinder, I simply don't have the time in the morning to go through the palaver of grinding (and cleaning up, actually).

Is there a happy medium somewhere in a good machine, with a decent steam wand and that can take both ground and ESE pods? Looking at roughly the same spend as above all in.

I realise the Gaggia Classic would do this (plus a wand upgrade), but given the fact that I paid almost £200 for the Dualit, it doesn't 'feel' like that much of an upgrade. Am I being blinded by price over reality? I've got a bit of time here, as I'm not thinking of buying until Feb/March, but like to do my research!

Thanks guys!









Squiggs


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hey Squiggs - welcome to Coffee Forums UK

ESE pod adaptor kits are available here

However, check with HasBean or TheCoffeeMachine (both are site sponsors) as they may be able to retail the kit complete with the ESE pod adaptor


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## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi Glenn - thanks for the welcome and the link!

Will the adaptor kit let me use the pods and normal ground coffee at the same time (not literally, obviously!)? I.e. pull one shot from a pod and the next with ground coffee?

Cheers


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I might be wrong, but no, I think you replace the standard shower screen / head with this new one

Happy to stand corrected by anyone who has performed this mod


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

My first machine was a dualit espressivo. How glad I am to be rid of it.

If you really want an upgrade that is compatible with ESE pods check out this refurbed one.

http://www.fairfaxcoffee.com/Coffee-Machine/Reconditioned-and-Ex-Demo/Ascaso-Dream-Anthracite-Grey---Ex-Display.aspx


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## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

Thanks both. Is the Ascaso machine fairly decent fatboyslim?

def looking forward to trading up from the Dualit


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

This machine sounds and looks great but may not be the best option for your first 'real' machine.

Read reviews here http://coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/ascasodream. Main problem is you'd have to invest in a pretty good grinder to go with this machine.

Also trust me when I say the Classic would be a huge step UP!


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

Just as a thought, what about the mypressi espresso makers for your pod needs? You can grind your own coffee the night before and fill your own pods for the following day. An ESE pod adapter is also available for about a fiver.

Nicely portable too so it can go everywhere with you


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I've had my machines a couple of months now (Fracino Piccino & Mahlkonig Vario) & don't at all see the time & palaver aspect of making coffee in the morning. The machine's on a timer so it's toasty and warm when I get up. I grind straight into the portafilter; there's no palaver at all. And it takes barely a minute to make my espresso & her cappuccino. For sure it's a bit messier than pods but I deal with that in the afternoon.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I can understand your issue with time on a morning, but I think you need to set your expectations carefully. Buying a new machine but continuing with pods may not deliver the additional benefits you seek. Pods will always produce an inferior espresso in comparision with freshly ground espresso brewed the traditional way. There's a chance that you will only get a small improvement, if any, in return for your additional spend.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

It seems to me that once you get past a certain price point, at about £500, what you are buying isn't necessarily a machine that produces top notch coffee, but something that produces it without any faff at all. No temp surfing, no waiting a minute or two before you can steam and ages for the machine to cool enough to pull another shot. Not having to empty the drip tray every day etc. Sure, there are tricks to circumvent some of these issues, but you don't need anything beyond a cooling flush on an hx machine, and on a dual boiler probably nothing at all.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I am another one who doesn't quite understand the time-saving issue. Dosing into a portafilter and tamping takes but a few seconds - I would have thought that the time spent wrestling with an ESE pod wrapper would be almost equal to this. OK, I accept that knocking-out and cleaning a standard filter would potentially take longer than disposing of a pod, but we're still just talking seconds.

I would have thought that the much poorer quality that you will obtain from a pod far outweighs any time saving.

I can understand your concerns that (based on price differential) the Classic doesn't appear to represent much of an upgrade from your current machine, but I am sure that it does - the Classic seems to be the cheapest real espresso machine on the market and has a very loyal following here.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Playing devils advocate - the pods wont take several shots and 30-75gs of coffee to dial-in.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I have a Classic and I have an espresso every day before I leave for work. It's just a case of getting into a routine. (Trust me when I say I'm not a morning person and sleep is very important to me)

I wake up, pop down to the kitchen and flick the machine on, then head back up for my shower. By the time I've come down for my brekky it's heated up and ready for use. Grinding, distributing and tamping takes no more than a few mins (or the time it takes to make some toast) then pulling the shot obviously. Beautiful espresso with your toast and it's probably added about 5 mins to your morning routine if that.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I've got a timer plug that allows 10 different on/off times with any combination of days. Working days it comes on at 5.20am to be nice and warm for my 6am coffee, switches off at 6.45am because I usually leave before 7am. On again at about 3.30pm in case I want a coffee when I get home, but off at 5.30pm to make sure I haven't still got a buzz on at bedtime. Weekends on at 5.30am in case the kids get me up and off again at 4pm.

Once you've got the knack of your grinder settings and a quick dose and tamp it is quicker than a cafetiere, aero press or filter, and no harder to clean.

I do think that it is only worth making espresso if it is going to be good espresso. I really don't get the pod thing, as I'd rather do something else well than

Espresso badly

As ever, just my opinion.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Expobarista said:


> I've got a timer plug that allows 10 different on/off times with any combination of days. Working days it comes on at 5.20am to be nice and warm for my 6am coffee, switches off at 6.45am because I usually leave before 7am. On again at about 3.30pm in case I want a coffee when I get home, but off at 5.30pm to make sure I haven't still got a buzz on at bedtime. Weekends on at 5.30am in case the kids get me up and off again at 4pm.
> 
> Once you've got the knack of your grinder settings and a quick dose and tamp it is quicker than a cafetiere, aero press or filter, and no harder to clean.
> 
> ...


If success criteria is a quality cup I agree 100%.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

garydyke1 said:


> Playing devils advocate - the pods wont take several shots and 30-75gs of coffee to dial-in.


Agreed - but the OP did indicate that he intends to use a grinder as well - in which case, once he's dialled-in....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

ah ok , missed that!


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## lucky13 (Dec 30, 2011)

How long does grinding a double shot take? 30-40 seconds? clean up 60-90 seconds?

I've just introduced a Silvia into my already busy morning routine and it's going great so far.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

PID it, Lucky. Trust me...


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I must admit, for a time I used to use pods during the week and then at the weekends I used to love the ritual of making the espresso by grinding. Now I only use fresh coffee (unless caught out in an emergency!) but I think my rationale at the time was based upon the following:

- Convenience/simplicity - as someone relatively new to proper espresso pods just seem easier and more convenient.

- Skills - for most of us here I expect the process of grinding, dosing, tamping, etc. is now almost second nature and can be easily tweaked at will but when starting out, it can very daunting, time consuming and extremely frustrating. Pods can be quite tempting as being simple, straightforward, quick, accessible and produce inoffensive results.

- Palette - I can imagine most people benchmark their early results against high-street chain cafes. If this is the case, then espresso made from pods, especially in milk, will compare favourably.

- Equipment - if using a grinder with a doser or a doser-less model (that grinds measured doses on demand) that deposit grounds directly into the portafilter, then grinding and dosing can indeed be done very quickly and easily. For those with grinders that grind into a container it can be fractionally more time consuming, having to measure/weigh out the dose from the container into the portafilter.

One further reason why pods might be appealing is if different types of coffee are required. For example, being able to brew regular and decaf (from pods) espresso in succession is not something one could do without pods unless one had 2 grinders.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

My Baratza Virtuoso grinds into a basket. I simply remove it, only throw the weight of beans I want at the end into the hopper i.e. 20g, then simply hold the PF under the spout. Occasionally I might get the odd stray ground but I find I usually get 100% in my PF (especially now I've taken to giving it a quick distribution and tap every third it gets full)... I'm just sayin


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## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi all - first of all, thank you for all your helpful replies. Excellent forum and friendly folk. Can't really explain my thinking on the time and mess aspect on the ground coffee, but I find I need a good run at it and the tidying up is crucial at the time, lest I want to incur the wrath of my lovely wife







You folks are probably right that I will get faster/cleaner over time (I've only become truly addicted in the past three months or so!)

I'm leaning towards getting the Classic and swapping out the steam wand. This does seem to be the best compromise and I'm comforted by the general feeling of the members that it's a quality machine - perhaps I'm too early in my coffee days to go beyond this, so might do me for a while.

Gazbea - interesting note on the mypressi. I'm intrigued!

Thanks everyone. Will keep you posted. Now really need to think about a grinder to match (although with the saving over the Silvia, it might be worth investing in a slightly better grinder?).

Cheers


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

No problem. I've been looking at the mypressi machines myself as I've heard good things about them but my lovely gf wouldn't allow it with the amount I've spent recently and she wants a new kitchen! Lol. Provided that I can find a reliable builder and joiner! Nobody seems to want the work for some reason though!


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