# Steaming - getting really fed up now! (with video)



## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Ok, getting really fed up now.

I just cannot seem to get my milk steamed correctly for a latte/flat white on my Alex mk2.

I'm using a two hole tip but also have a four hole (even worse results!). I had no issues with my single hole on my previous Barista Express.

I have done a short video below showing the different orientation I can put the two hole tip in but I'm not sure which way would be best or how best to hold the jug and position the wand in it.

I have tried tilting towards me, away from me, wand in the middle, to the side etc etc. I can seem to get a swirl but then the milk separates into bubbles on top and hot milk underneath. I always seem to end up with 1-2mm bubbles in my flat white too even with the silkiest looking microfoam (then a layer of hot milky coffee under).

Help!!!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

can you get a single hole tip? - Ive just switched from 3 hole to single on my pavoni - massive improovement - i can now get a propper swirl going and manage the direction of the steam.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

By the sounds of it you just need to get used to it and learn how to steam milk with a two-hole steam wand.

There are some links in this forum to a very good tutorial on how to steam milk. However, in essence, this is what you [can] do:

- Put the steam wand in the middle of the jug, surfacing the milk; Inject all the air there for about 2-3 seconds;

- Then move the pitcher so that the wand stays at the 3 o'clock position, sink slightly and tilt the jug slightly so the milk spins. Keep your hand touching the jug at all times, and, when it's too hot to touch, stop.

That should do the trick.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

jimbojohn55 said:


> can you get a single hole tip? - Ive just switched from 3 hole to single on my pavoni - massive improovement - i can now get a propper swirl going and manage the direction of the steam.


Yes I think I can. I am seeing this a bit of a backstop at the moment as ideally I want to use a 2 or 4 hole but I may yet give in!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have sent the op a smaller two hole tip and a single tip. Admittedly second class post but they ought to be there any week soon!


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

pessutojr said:


> By the sounds of it you just need to get used to it and learn how to steam milk with a two-hole steam wand.
> 
> There are some links in this forum to a very good tutorial on how to steam milk. However, in essence, this is what you [can] do:
> 
> ...


Thanks - which way round would you suggest to keep the steam holes (9 o'clock - 3 o'clock or 12 o'clock - 6 o'clock - or first or second in my video?)

When you say tilt the jug, which way? Back towards me or left/right etc?


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I have sent the op a smaller two hole tip and a single tip. Admittedly second class post but they ought to be there any week soon!


Still not turned up yet!!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

itguy said:


> Thanks - which way round would you suggest to keep the steam holes (9 o'clock - 3 o'clock or 12 o'clock - 6 o'clock - or first or second in my video?)
> 
> When you say tilt the jug, which way? Back towards me or left/right etc?


Re: Steam holes: No idea, sorry.

Tilt the jug away from the steam wand. So, if the steam wand is at 3 o'clock, tilt it so the bottom goes towards 9 o clock.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

This:


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## Dougy Giro (Aug 8, 2017)

Good video


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## martinc (Sep 17, 2017)

A great tip I picked up once - if you want to practice streaming a lot and don't want to run through all your milk, use cold water with a squeeze of washing up liquid. It will frith white and behave exactly like milk. Good luck, it's all in the practice!


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

martinc said:


> with a squeeze of washing up liquid.


Not a big squeeze though, lol... a drop should suffice


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Two hole tips are (IMO) very tricky to steam with. In order to avoid the two jets battling with each other (i.e. One sending flow clockwise, the other anti-clockwise) you have to angle the wand so one hole is working horizontalish and the other verticalish. That way you get a spin from one jet and a tumble (lower to upper roll) from the other. Even then, I think two hole tips are a compromise.

If you have enough steam pressure, work with the four hole. Angle the wand to help get the milk spinning. Playing with soapy water is a cheap way to practice as Martinc/DaveP says.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Very true, I can now compare working with single, two and four hole tips - the single on miss Silvia was very easy to work with, perhaps a bit slow but that allows time for learning and correcting mistakes on the fly.

The four hole tip on a 2 group LM Linea made it very easy for the aerating phase and trouble free rolling, but everything happens so fast that it requires a good technique, it was very easy to overheat the milk.

I am now frothing with a two hole tip (on the Bellman stovetop steamer), I keep them aligned horizontally for now, the aerating phase can be tricky sometimes as it is rather easy to introduce too much air too fast and get a lot of huge bubbles, rolling is mostly top to bottom (or vice-versa) and without issues. It is a bit faster than Silvia but not by much.


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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

Sorry to hijack this dead thread, but..

We have a magnificent La Marzocco GS3 at work and it's a pleasure to use - frothing milk is super forgiving and easy using the regular 12oz pitcher. I always get consistent results. Sometimes I work from a client's office where they have either older pro-level machines (Faema, La Cimbali etc). They've just upgraded their park to 2x Victoria Arduino Adonis (2 group). And it's super hard to use in terms of frothing. The steam is instant, harsh and almost impossible to control in the same 12oz pitcher. I constantly get a cappuccino material. The only way to even try stretching the milk is to instantly dip it all the way into the jug almost touching the bottom.. So my question is, is it safe to assume the machine is meant for large coffee shops where they use bigger pitchers? Guessing not all machines are made equal hence you always see mostly La Marcozzo's in the modern "artisanal" coffee shops which are more tailored to flat whites? Or is it just a pure skill question?


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

We just got an ECM with a 5 hole tip.

Never steamed milk before and am trying with red/blue top with a 350ml jug.

I am currently at the "hot milk and bubbles" part of the learning curve..

Think this weekend I think I will get a bucket of blue top, and use a bigger jug.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

rdpx said:


> We just got an ECM with a 5 hole tip.
> 
> Never steamed milk before and am trying with red/blue top with a 350ml jug.
> 
> ...


Try water with a drop of fairy liquid (other washing deturgents are available) instead of milk. It's alot less wasteful when practicing & cheaper too.


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## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> Try water with a drop of fairy liquid (other washing deturgents are available) instead of milk. It's alot less wasteful when practicing & cheaper too.


I tried that but it just tasted horrible.










and now for the real reply...

thanks @ashcroc - that's a tip I had not heard before

I'm going to switch her on right now and try it.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

at work, I'm now frothing with a 5 hole huge size steam tip (it is almost as big as my thumb) on an Elektra Kup 2 group machine with loads of power; I surely had to get used to it but now I've no issues even with the 350 ml Motta jug, the milk is done in around 10-12 seconds so you have to have a really precise control of hand movement

I was training the owner's wife yesterday and in the beginning she was exactly where I was perhaps a year and half ago, just stick the wand in with no real control of movement, white stuff squirting around, ending with huge bubbles and overheated milk...I showed her the water plus wash-up liquid trick and gave her couple of tips on how delicate the control with these huge powerful tips has to be, that there is an "air-sucking" phase and rolling phase, how to adjust the position of the jug in relation to the tip with rising milk in it and to the sounds it makes and that you can check the temperature with your hand on the jug and after maybe 5 attempts she was much better with it and was able to make a smooth, shiny, microbubbles filled milk, so it really boils down to practice (which is fortunately easy to do with the detergent)


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

I am also learning with a two hole tip now and experimenting with different hole positions relative to the milk surface. I seem to get the best results if I tip the jug so the wand is in the deepest milk (probably obvious?) and have both jets are the same depth, so across the plane of the milk surface. Start with the wand fully submerged, then tip/lower the jug to stretch till around 40C and then submerge again to get it rolling. I am not trying to get the milk spinning, just rolling.

It would be possible to use one hole for stretching while the other is submerged and spinning or rolling the milk. I haven't tried this yet (not intentionally anyway).

Eventually you just find what works. Always better to stretch less otherwise the bubbles get too big and you can't see the milk surface.

There is a good Chris Baca video on this.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Ha - just watched the Baca video again - seems vortex is the way to go.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

StuartS said:


> Ha - just watched the Baca video again - seems vortex is the way to go.


It is and not too much of this gesticulating up and down...... it'll come..

Jon.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

with a two-hole tip, it seems that the orientation (vertical or horizontal) of the holes relative to the milk is also important, I've got rid of the two-hole at home because I sucked at it


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Stanic said:


> with a two-hole tip, it seems that the orientation (vertical or horizontal) of the holes relative to the milk is also important, I've got rid of the two-hole at home because I sucked at it


Looking at it logically a single hole or two holes that did not splay out so acutely would be better.

Jon.


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## RoA19 (Feb 23, 2018)

Quick question on cleaning / purging steam wand - how wet/damp does your cloth need to be to best clean the steam wand after steaming milk?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

RoA19 said:


> Quick question on cleaning / purging steam wand - how wet/damp does your cloth need to be to best clean the steam wand after steaming milk?


An essential habit to adopt is, first after frothing, purge the steam wand with a couple of blasts of steam, that's to ensure there's no milk residue sucked into the wand causing blockages and nasties. Wipe the outside of the wand at the same time with a damp cloth before the milk really adhere's to the end, it only takes seconds but saves disasters later.

Jon.


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