# Pondering other brew methods



## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

I've been using aeropress and more recently a kind of french press immersion brew (without the press - filtering it through the aeropress with the kaffeologie filter on - still working on it...).

I'm trying to determine which other brewing methods i might like. They mostly seem to use paper filters. I much prefer the metal filter in the aeropress to the paper one.

Doing a bit of research at the weekend in Glasgow, I tried a clever brew (Costa Rica La Divinia). It was ok but no more than that to my tastes. Had some nice juiciness at the start which faded and very little "body". I also had an insipid aeropress at another cafe. I did manage a nice espresso at another cafe, so it wasn't all bad!

I'm tempted to try the Kalita Wave but wondering if it might not suit my taste. I've not come across a cafe in Glasgow making Kalita Wave brews?

Able do a Kone metal filter available for chemex (pretty expensive though) , so wondering about that.

I have had some amazing aeropresses with a paper filter (at Papercup in Glasgow), so maybe it's not really a filter thing but the rather more difficult question of finding out how to use a brewer to get what i like out of it?

Saying that, after a discussion with one of the barista's at papercup on their aeropress method, i 've had no success in replicating it - just lot's of bad brews...

I'm a solo coffee drinker so prefer to produce single cup quantities.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Paper produces a different result to same method using metal filter. V60 is probably cheapest way to get into pour over - around £12-£15 inc filters. Chemex produces, for me, a better cup - sure others might disagree Downside of metal filters is they do not stop fines getting through - certainly the case with the Able Kone for Chemex.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Any of the brewers you mention can make a great cup, the ones that are less appealing are because you're not hitting a comparable target.

Aeropress - can you tell us how you're brewing?

Kone - if was to buy another I'd buy the gold one.

I wouldn't worry too much about the filter medium (paper vs metal) for Chemex, Hario, Aeropress as you can change this at will...yes, you get a slightly different result (mouthfeel & suspended solids) but the brewer essentially works the same (Kone is fussier over the pour, avoid the edges).

Exception is the Clever, I tend to use a Swissgold even if using a paper filter too.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Any of the brewers you mention can make a great cup, the ones that are less appealing are because you're not hitting a comparable target.
> 
> Aeropress - can you tell us how you're brewing?
> 
> ...


Thanks. My current go to aeropress "recipe"

Kaffeologie metal filter, inverted , 85C brew water, 13g into 160ml. Grind size- somewhere near granulated sugar on Hario Skerton. Stir at 1min, invert 15sec later and plunge.

If i want something shorter/stronger i sometimes go 14/15g/100ml or so. I find grind and water temp are key. If i go finer or hotter it tends to get bitter.

What brewers does the Swissgold fit - or does it come in different sizes? How is it different from a standard metal filter?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Paper produces a different result to same method using metal filter. V60 is probably cheapest way to get into pour over - around £12-£15 inc filters. Chemex produces, for me, a better cup - sure others might disagree Downside of metal filters is they do not stop fines getting through - certainly the case with the Able Kone for Chemex.


I quite like the fines the kaffeologie lets through - maybe it's finer?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> What brewers does the Swissgold fit - or does it come in different sizes? How is it different from a standard metal filter?


The Swissgold KF4 fits the Clever dripper & some 4 cup or larger 'Melitta' style cones (not Chemex or V60).

They do a 2 cup filter too, again Melitta style cones.

They do a flat bed 1 cup filter (KF300), throw away the water diffuser and use like a regular pourover, it's quite forgiving with a pouring kettle.

The gold filters seem to impart less flavour to the brew, steel seems to make an impact, not always a bad one though, depends on the coffee.

The Swissgold has been around for decades, it pretty much *is* the standard metal drip filter.

Kone fits the 3-6 cup & bigger Chemex & V60-02. Fits in the Clever too (prefer the Swissgold for that).


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for the explanation about swissgold filters. Could you please expand upon how you use the Clever (2 filters at the same time?) and the difference you find in taste between paper, swissgold and (if i understand correctly) a paper/swissgold combo


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Using paper & Swissgold allows you to grind fine, the coffee to drain around the bed, rather than through the coffee bed, tastes better & draws down quicker.

Using paper on it's own seems to give a more muddled brew in the Clever, less so in the old Clever.

Using Swissgold on it's own - I don't know if I'd recommend it, in a drip brew (which you can obviously also do with a Clever) the grounds bed forms part of the filter, in a steep the coffee will run off the bed, taking with it fines that end up in the cup, more so than a French Press in my experience. Maybe if you have a very even coarse grind it could work? Draws down in the blink of an eye!

I brew around 65g/l, rinse through & preheat with water just off boil, 3/4 brew water in first, coffee on top, dunk & wet, top up, pat down any floaters. Cover & leave. Taste intermittently off the top, draw down when delicious, might take 10mins, might take 35 depending on water, grind & grinder.


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## Bigpikle (Oct 14, 2014)

Have you tried a syphon yet? I remember being amazed at the flavours and smooth finish the first time I had a cup from a friends Cona. I immediately went out to find one for myself! No filters needed at all as the glass rod in the Cona serves that purpose and plenty of theatre when you use it.

Most Conas seem to be larger C or D models that would not be ideal for 1 person, but I found an older B model that holds about 450ml and brews just enough for 2 or 1 large mug. I believe there are other options from Hario and the like now so maybe more alternative size versions you could find?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Hario syphon can be sublime but it can be tricky managing the temp in the upper chamber so an accurate digital thermometer is a must if you want to get the best out of it. Hario branded syphons are expensive - over £50.00 for the 3 cup. Amazon do a non Hario branded five cup (500-600ml) for £30.00

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coffee-Master-5-Cup-Syphon-Vacuum/dp/B0047UVAMQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415098433&sr=8-1&keywords=hario+syphon

Bought this ages ago and use it regularly. The supplied meths burner is a waste of time so you need to factor in a butane burner for more heat control - costs about £20.00.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Using paper & Swissgold allows you to grind fine, the coffee to drain around the bed, rather than through the coffee bed, tastes better & draws down quicker.
> 
> Using paper on it's own seems to give a more muddled brew in the Clever, less so in the old Clever.
> 
> ...


Thanks again for the detailed reply. Just to be sure - the paper filter goes *inside *the swissgold filter and imparts a clearer brew? How would you describe the mouthfeel fom this type of brew in the clever?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Bigpikle said:


> Have you tried a syphon yet? I remember being amazed at the flavours and smooth finish the first time I had a cup from a friends Cona. I immediately went out to find one for myself! No filters needed at all as the glass rod in the Cona serves that purpose and plenty of theatre when you use it.
> 
> Most Conas seem to be larger C or D models that would not be ideal for 1 person, but I found an older B model that holds about 450ml and brews just enough for 2 or 1 large mug. I believe there are other options from Hario and the like now so maybe more alternative size versions you could find?


Thanks - that's interesting. I did see Hario syphons for sale in Geneva when i was there a week or so ago. Looked good. But i'd like to taste first!


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Hario syphon can be sublime but it can be tricky managing the temp in the upper chamber so an accurate digital thermometer is a must if you want to get the best out of it. Hario branded syphons are expensive - over £50.00 for the 3 cup. Amazon do a non Hario branded five cup (500-600ml) for £30.00
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Coffee-Master-5-Cup-Syphon-Vacuum/dp/B0047UVAMQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1415098433&sr=8-1&keywords=hario+syphon
> 
> Bought this ages ago and use it regularly. The supplied meths burner is a waste of time so you need to factor in a butane burner for more heat control - costs about £20.00.


Sounds a bit like a chemistry experiment! I can envisage a lot of onlookers when you brew with one of these. How do you find the taste compared to other brew methods?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I put the paper outside the Swissgold, the Swissgold holds the bulk of the grounds, the paper catches the fines. Nick Cho has a video on youtube showing the idea ("Paper Clever Gold", or similar?), but there's no need to pull the Swissgold out at brew end.

You can vary the mouthfeel. Put the coffee in first then the water will give more body (towards a typical Aeropress?), water first then coffee less body (V60-ish).


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> I put the paper outside the Swissgold, the Swissgold holds the bulk of the grounds, the paper catches the fines. Nick Cho has a video on youtube showing the idea ("Paper Clever Gold", or similar?), but there's no need to pull the Swissgold out at brew end.
> 
> You can vary the mouthfeel. Put the coffee in first then the water will give more body (towards a typical Aeropress?), water first then coffee less body (V60-ish).


Thanks again MWJB. I watched the video, so see the method used. A couple of questions though.

As i understand it, the metal filter (in this case Swissgold) , lets through coffee oils and fines. Does the paper filter not then remove the oils as well as the fines?

I have, inadvertently, used the aeropress with a paper filter under the metal one - tonight in fact with a decaf bean - which turned out very well. Is this the same principle?

The swissgold filter does not seem to be widely available. Hasbean have a gold one called a Cores Gold filter - would this be a suitable alternative?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes the paper removes some oils & nearly all the fines. Oils in coffee are somewhat overrated...nice for body but not always great for flavour clarity. Like I said, put the coffee in first, even with the paper filter, and you'll get significant oils. I prefer to keep the oils down to let the coffee flavour shine.

No, the Cores filter doesn't look right to me, looks like the one in Nick's video, stands up proud of the lid so it doesn't sit right (same as the Freiling & Cilio brands). The biggest issue with the Clever is heat loss, I want the lid to fit right if at allpossible. The Cores would be fine for drip brewing.They have the Swissgold here:

http://www.anothercoffee.co.uk/products/item110301.aspx

Without a bed of grinds most paper filters still let solids (inc. lipids) through, as does the Aeropress filter.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks again. That's the only place i've found the Swissgold filter. It is pretty expensive right enough.

I see that there is a similar device to the Clever made by Bonavita - its a bit more expensive and made of porcelain. How do they compare in your estimation? Does it retain heat better? Presumably the swissgold filter would fit this with the lid on as well?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The Bonavita doesn't retain the heat any better than the Clever, the Bonavita valve is a bit less reliable (prone to wear/deforation & leakage) than the gravity valve on the Clever. If you go for the Bonavita (yes, it takes the Swissgold too, but not the Cilio/Freiling types) leave it to steep on a server/vessel that will catch the contents if the valve fails & not on a worktop (like you can with the Clever). Bonavita can make a great cup though, without the Swissgold, just with paper.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Bonavita can make a great cup though, without the Swissgold, just with paper.


Can the Clever - with just the paper?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Can the Clever - with just the paper?


It probably can, depends on your taste & the coffee in question, but I can't say that I have had one yet & have personally found brews more variable with the V2 Clever (there was an older version that is a little different, more like the Bonavita in the cup - I gave mine to my parents & use it at their house when I'm there....I sorely regret giving it away), so I always now use the current model with a Swissgold.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Many thanks. I think i'll go for the Bonavita and hold off on the swissgold for now.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Bonavita now arrived. Very easy to use and getting some lovely brews with the current IMM San Sebastian bean.

I found the supplied Melitta brown filters give the brew an overtly papery taste. No such problem however with the Filtropa white filters though - no papery taste whatsoever.

Anyone ever tried it as a pourover rather than immersion? Or a combination of the two methods?


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