# Convince me to buy a shiny new machine...



## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

In a few (a lot of a few) months I'll be thinking about getting a new machine.

Thinking of getting a Brewtus, but what are my options from a Gaggia Classic all the way up to that Brewtus?

Really, in a day I only make 2 or 3 drinks at the most; milk included.

So what do you guys think?


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

I am in a similar situation. Dont make many drinks a week but am now starting to make more milky drinks so a better machine would be an advantage.

I am trying to wait it out and see what comes up on here in the for sale section.

But if I was to go new I think I would have to stretch to the Brewtus as otherwise I am sure I would always want to upgrade again to a dual boiler machine just so as to get PID control.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I had a classic for a few months, got an Oscar and now I want a brewtus. If you can afford it just get a top end machine at the chance and save yourself some upgraditis


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ive said it before, i'll say it again. You wont get better bang for your buck than the Brewtus at £1k.

None of the machines cons manifest themselves in the cup. If you get one you are unlikely to get upgraditis unless its towards rotary/plumbed in.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Ive said it before, i'll say it again. You wont get better bang for your buck than the Brewtus at £1k.
> 
> None of the machines cons manifest themselves in the cup. If you get one you are unlikely to get upgraditis unless its towards rotary/plumbed in.


Thats the thing....

The Rocket is just £400 more and is rotary......


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

What does rotary mean


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Fevmeister said:


> What does rotary mean


Its the type of pump, its better than a vibe (vibration) and quieter too


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

kikapu said:


> Its the type of pump, its better than a vibe (vibration) and quieter too


Maybe not better, but it has a more consisent pressure profile.

Vibe pumps vibrate water into the line, so the presure profile is like 010101010101, rotary pumps rotate, so there is a constant stream of water going into a line.

Vibe pumps are a lot smaller and easer to fix and cheaper than rotary though.

Cheaper to the extent that you would just throw a broken unit away and buy a new one.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyle548 said:


> Thats the thing....
> 
> The Rocket is just £400 more and is rotary......


Ive not had a shot from the Rocket that was better than the Brewtus, there i've said it.

400 quid is 400 quid.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyle548 said:


> Maybe not better, but it has a more consisent pressure profile.
> 
> Vibe pumps vibrate water into the line, so the presure profile is like 010101010101, rotary pumps rotate, so there is a constant stream of water going into a line.
> 
> ...


The dial remains rock solid and doesnt flutter, the flow doesnt measurably flutter.

The gentle ramp-up of the e61 and vibe pump combo creates extended preinfusion which doesnt do any harm.

However Vibes are noisy as hell!


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> it has a more consisent pressure profile.
> 
> Vibe pumps vibrate water into the line, so the presure profile is like 010101010101, rotary pumps rotate, so there is a constant stream of water going into a line.


So as I said better

















Cause of this constant pressure profile some reckon this give a better shot! I however can not comment on this


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Well if I had the same kind of cash an R58 costs you then also need to be looking at the Duetto and the Verona, but I'm not convinced they are £500+ better than a brewtus better off putting that towards a serious grinder.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Im impressed by the Verona, very solid machine.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

mmmm.....

Anything between the Brewtus and the Classic worth getting?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Are you set on a db or would you consider an hx? That opens up more options.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Are you set on a db or would you consider an hx? That opens up more options.


Kinda like the idea of PID.

In terms of pure volume, I don't need a DB. As long as I get temp stability thoughout one or two shots.

What HX options are there?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Are you prepared for the flushing routine of the HX? PIDs are not really effective on HX (from what I have seen on low-medium end of the price range)


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Ive said it before, i'll say it again. You wont get better bang for your buck than the Brewtus at £1k.
> 
> None of the machines cons manifest themselves in the cup. If you get one you are unlikely to get upgraditis unless its towards rotary/plumbed in.


This.

I just pressed the button on a Leva/Brewtus a few weeks ago, and no regrets at all.. the OH even says it looks good in the kitchen! WIN!


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm not really prepared for flushing if I'm to be honest, thus I was looking at a DB. One of the best things to happen in my coffee making was adding a PID to my Classic, just so I can pull and know I'm starting at the same temp without messing about with the machine.

I know PID don't really work on HX as brew water is controled by steam water temp, not the boiler presé.



garydyke1 said:


> Are you prepared for the flushing routine of the HX? PIDs are not really effective on HX (from what I have seen on low-medium end of the price range)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You can always turn the steam boiler off if it's just shots you're pulling . Another plus


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Is there anywhere that do them with finance or do I just need to save up and throw my wallet at them.

BB do them the cheapest as far as I can see.

I take it the office is a HX and the leva is a DB?


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> I take it the office is a HX and the leva is a DB?


Correct office is the HX. I actually saw someone online selling the office for £850 but still only £250 less than the DB


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Kyle548 said:


> Is there anywhere that do them with finance or do I just need to save up and throw my wallet at them.
> 
> BB do them the cheapest as far as I can see.
> 
> I take it the office is a HX and the leva is a DB?


Enter the competition raffle to win one also


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> Is there anywhere that do them with finance or do I just need to save up and throw my wallet at them.
> 
> BB do them the cheapest as far as I can see.
> 
> I take it the office is a HX and the leva is a DB?


You could throw your wallet at them , it would need to have money in it tho . How you get on with the coffee btw


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Kyle548 said:


> Anything between the Brewtus and the Classic worth getting?


Cherub?

Nuova Simonelli Oscar ?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> You could throw your wallet at them , it would need to have money in it tho . How you get on with the coffee btw


Got on really well with them.

As you said, when pulled tight, very fruity.

Worked well in a cap, the acidity was not neutralised all the way by the milk.

Mmmmm....

Really really am tempted to get a Brewtus though......


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

I shall be buying a Leva once I've done all I can with the Silvia and have the money available - bang for buck it just ticks most if not all the boxes (for me at least)


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## Lighty (May 31, 2013)

Same boat here too ...

wanted the L1 but Mrs L didn't like the lever

:-0

the Brewtus looks like the best bet by a good margin

DB, PID ...

add a 2nd hand k30 and you're at rocking without a rocket


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If I don't win the Brewtus I'm going to buy one and be done with it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Lighty said:


> Same boat here too ...
> 
> wanted the L1 but Mrs L didn't like the lever
> 
> ...


You let the mrs choose your coffee machine ?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

mmm.....

An L1.....

Theres an idea....

Not really sure I want to go to the lever side without ever trying one though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> mmm.....
> 
> An L1.....
> 
> ...


 I wouldn't but any machine of £1000 plus without trying it. You know where there is one tho .


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> I wouldn't but any machine of £1000 plus without trying it. You know where there is one tho .


Yep, but I mean owning one for a month or longer.

Of course at £1000+ I would spend a few hours playing, but for moving to something as different as a lever, I think I would want to own something like a Achillie or something for a while to see if I like levers or not...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Kyle548 said:



> Yep, but I mean owning one for a month or longer.
> 
> Of course at £1000+ I would spend a few hours playing, but for moving to something as different as a lever, I think I would want to own something like a Achillie or something for a while to see if I like levers or not...


Well Reiss I believe has always done a refund if not happy , no one has taken him up on it so far ...


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## Lighty (May 31, 2013)

From everything you read, I wouldn't look at an L1

Game over

that is where I got to!

must admit to skulking around for day when cc sold the L1

when it was mentioned but I apparently never said how much I wanted it I did try to tactfully suggest why on earth would I have built a mock up otherwise???!

fun? (As much as it was half an hour messing about)

I'll echo the other guys here....

you will only end up going a- b - c - L1 and losing money selling the others on in the process

i drink mainly milky drinks but am reliably informed that pulling a shot on the L1 is fairly idiot proof, and even a bad one is palatable versus a bad one on a hx

therein lies the problem though .... £2k on an L1 plus a grinder or a fair bit less on a hx or db and a grinder!

you pays ya money .....

boots, don't remind me of my wife's 'choice' at the moment

those nice nespresso machines look nice AND they're really small aren't they

i think i might just buy a bag of the l stuff , grind it as fine as I can , leave it a week then and spoon feed myself


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Mmmmm.......£2000.......


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

The shots that I've had made for me on the brewtus were superb! The difference in quality from the coffee that I could produce with the classic was very noticeable. It's a great machine.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I think 'convince me' is a bit hard. I had been thinking about an upgrade for 6 years before I got the Brewtus but never did it as none of the machines I had tried convinced me. The Classic with a good grinder is actually quite a formidable machine and it's price - quality trade off is very hard to beat. I had tried a lot of the prosumer machines in the small restaurants in the town but did not find any of them that much better than the Classic. The Brewtus though, I must say is fabulous - great, smooth pulls and very forgiving too. It's also super adjustable and controllable. But in the end, I upgraded when I was ready and am happy. Careful not to feel pressured into an upgrade and be disappointed!


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Kyle, I just bit the bullet and bought a Rocket Giotto and a new grinder from bella barista. For me i didn't mind paying the £200 more (than the brewtus) to get a machine i like the looks of more and has a rotary pump. Anyways i currently have a Classic paired with a shimmed baratza encore grinder and i was planning on doing a comparison between the two. My machine is being delivered on tuesday so hopefully by the end of the week i should be able to post up my thoughts!

I have only bought such an expensive set up as i had a little windfall and i had promised to spend the money on something i wanted (and not pay off bills etc), so i thought it would be good to see how much of a better shot you can get from a machine costing over £1000 and is it worth it. I plan to use my original grinder with both machines to see how the shots compare with the machines being the only variable, and then a test with the new grinder and the new machine. My initial set up cost me £250 and this new set up about £1500 so i am interested to see what 6 times more money buys you in the cup!

Apart from the sexiness of the prosumer machines, the main reason i want to upgrade is that i think my Classic has a huge temperature swing and even with some temperature surfing i get inconsistent results. From what i can see a lot of people are happy with the NS Oscar as it is very stable and can produces great shots but you have to weigh up if that is going to keep you going or whether you will simply want a better machine in the future.

As an aside here is how i justify my coffee purchases (to myself as i live alone!): Price of 1 coffee a day from Costa - £2.50. If i picked one up most days, say 300 a year that is £750 a year. Now for having a machine at home i price up the cost of beans and milk and electricity:

1x250g bag per week (12kg a year, at £6 a bag average is £288)

1xpint of milk per week (89px52 equals £46)

Electricity (£30 a year)

Incidentals/Repairs (£50 a year)

So the total it costs me to make coffee annually is £414, which means i am saving £336 a year by not buying from a coffee shop everyday. So i plan on keeping my Rocket for at least the next 5 years (hopefully longer) which means in just over 4 years the savings would have paid for the machine anyway! Thinking of it this way can help justify the large initial outlay, its like buying a new boiler; its a big expense but it will work out cheaper in the long run!

Hope this helps!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bet your excited by your new machine . What grinder did you with it?


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

Got a package deal with a Eureka Mignon. Don't have much room on my kitchen so the mignon is perfect and apart from some clumping issues has got some pretty good reviews!

Yes i am very excited! Can't wait to test it all out!


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## big dan (Apr 11, 2012)

As promised here is my comparison of my Classic and my new Giotto:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?13002-Gaggia-Classic-vs-Rocket-Giotto-Showdown


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