# Square Mile



## jeebsy

Got an email today saying the new webshop is up and running:

http://shop.squaremilecoffee.com/

Prices seem a bit cheaper than buying from shops - I love Red Brick/Sweetshop but always put off by the price a bit. Suppose taking a third party retailer out the questions means they can market them cheaper.


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## Fevmeister

Have you ever tried any compass coffee beans?


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## jeebsy

Have not no, worth a look?


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## Fevmeister

Fantastic. Unsure whether you like single origin or blends but they have three espresso blends going at the moment and I'm struggling to pick a favourite! good prices too!


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## Fevmeister

Oops just seen that you like red brick, so I'd recommend any of the three compass coffee blends


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## jeebsy

What would you recommend? Can you compare them to Square Mile?


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## xiuxiuejar

Sorry to hijack but unfortunately Rave are out of Jampit - any recommendations. Read a few texts on the 'next' Jampit but got a terrible memory! HELP PLEASE!!!


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## dabac

xiuxiuejar said:


> Sorry to hijack but unfortunately Rave are out of Jampit - any recommendations. Read a few texts on the 'next' Jampit but got a terrible memory! HELP PLEASE!!!


IIRC, people were dubbing Rave's Sumatra as "the next Java"...

As far as SM goes, my favorite roaster so far; unfortunately prices are significantly higher than e.g. Rave...


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## Wando64

dabac said:


> IIRC, people were dubbing Rave's Sumatra as "the next Java"...


I think there are two Sumatra available. What you want is the Jagong Village.


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## Fevmeister

jeebsy said:


> What would you recommend? Can you compare them to Square Mile?


I haven't actually tried any square mile so I wouldn't be able to say. Just looking at the red brick on their website I would say it is most like compass' gusto gold blend. I would recommend both that and their sweet bourbon blend


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## CallumT

This is abit strange, SQM and Rave are different ball parks roast profiles ect. Not knocking anyone because I like different things about both roasters.

If you like SQM ie lighter roasts - either go for them or what if recommend personally is the new v14 of Workshops Cult of done - I'm working with it at the moment and it's one of favourite coffees this year.

On the pricing side unfortunately coffee is expensive. And I am personally against this 10£ for 350g - but I know any of the espresso SO/ blends from SQM or Workshop are less than £20 for a kg excluding p&p - give them a call sure they'd be able to sort you out.

If all that fails get in touch and I'll sort you something out


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## jeebsy

Can anyone get those prices? I'd drink a lot more cult of done if so.. love it bit at £10+ a bag its hard to justify regularly.


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Can anyone get those prices? I'd drink a lot more cult of done if so.. love it bit at £10+ a bag its hard to justify regularly.


I'd like to try it also but at tenner a bag and less inclined currently.


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## jeebsy

I've just emailed both square mile and workshop to see if they'll sell me a kilo bag as a retail customer. If they do I'll send you a wee sample...

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> I've just emailed both square mile and workshop to see if they'll sell me a kilo bag as a retail customer. If they do I'll send you a wee sample...
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


Nice one jeebsy , il owe you one


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## jeebsy

Square mile said no but told me to try a couple of cafes they supply who might sell me a 1kg bag.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


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## jeebsy

Workshop said no too. Disappointing but can't fault the speed of their response.


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Workshop said no too. Disappointing but can't fault the speed of their response.


Cheers for trying , with the workshop stuff I'll give it a miss at £10 a bag currently .


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## Daren

Mrboots2u said:


> Cheers for trying , with the workshop stuff I'll give it a miss at £10 a bag currently .


Likewise. I was reading this thread with interest as I'm always up for trying something new, but for £10 when I'm unsure if I'll like it - "I'm Out"


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## jeebsy

I've to email the guy from my link cafe so he can work out how much to charge me for a kilo of sweet shop


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## jeebsy

Alternatively depending on price I could try and get a kg of red brick and split it if you guys would prefer to try that.....


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## jeebsy

Tried the current iteration of cult of done in craft coffee earlier and it was so good I'm now in workshop for a burger and a bag of beans. Its a hunkute sidamo. So tasty.


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## Neill

jeebsy said:


> Tried the current iteration of cult of done in craft coffee earlier and it was so good I'm now in workshop for a burger and a bag of beans. Its a hunkute sidamo. So tasty.


Last time I ordered a few bags from workshop they threw in a bag of hunkute as a sample for free. Wasn't roasted to order but it was still only a few weeks post roast.


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## jeebsy

They've done it it for filter but they're using it for the house espresso now. The shot I had earlier was excellent.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk


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## Neill

Very nice. The bag I had was for filter.


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## jeebsy

Less than 24 hours after saying I wasn't going to buy any expensive beans too. What a chump.

Recipe for this is 18 in, 34 out in 34 seconds which is a bit funky.


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## Spazbarista

I notice SM are selling Cascara at £10 a bag.

I wonder what is so special about this by-product that merits the extra £5 over other merchants (and yes, that is accounting for their 350g bags)

I know many will disagree with me on this, but to this is style over substance.


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## jeebsy

They definitely do charge a premium based on their reputation. Red Brick at £7.50 for 350g isn't bad but their stuff can get very pricey.


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## jeebsy

jeebsy said:


> Recipe for this is 18 in, 34 out in 34 seconds which is a bit funky.


Misjudged that one a bit...18g >34g in about a minute. Still tasty though.


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## Fevmeister

Compass coffee


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## Earlepap

For filter, if you like SqM and Workshop, it's worth trying James Gourmet. It's a similar roast level and the quality is great, but the prices are much lower.


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## jeebsy

Prices are good...only thing is on most espresso beans he says 18g in and 50g out in 28-30 secs...that right?


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## Earlepap

I tried a couple of espresso blends from JG a couple years ago, but that was using a porlex hand grinder I think, so couldn't give a fair judgement. I'd recommend their filter coffees though.


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## Sk8-bizarre

I just opened a bag of Sweetshop, I couldn't let it rest any longer and it's fantastic!!!


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## aphelion

Agreed, thr latest Red Brick and Sweetshop are both fantastic


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## DoubleShot

How you enjoying the L1 Andy?

How would you describe the taste of those two? Keep seeing Sweetshop receiving positive comments. Might have to add both to my ever growing list of beans to try.


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## Sk8-bizarre

aphelion said:


> Agreed, thr latest Red Brick and Sweetshop are both fantastic


I will have to try the Red Brick. First one I have tried from Square and I am seriously loving it. Such a lively cup, sticky gorgeous treats.


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## jjprestidge

Sweetshop and the SOs are the better coffees from Square Mile IMO. Red Brick is a but more traditional - slightly darker roast and a bit less interesting as an espresso.

Some Square Mile espressos haven't worked that well with our water here - they're roasted with RO water in mind, as most of the big customers are London based. This makes them sonetimes a bit bright with our water, which is filtered through a Bestmax Premium and is a bit higher in Magnesium post filtration.

Peter James is great coffee. Only downside is the espressos have been a bit darker than I'd like traditionally (this may have changed, though).

JP


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## jeebsy

What's in this iteration?


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## jjprestidge

50% Wonago natural, 50% San Rafael.

JP


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## Sk8-bizarre

50% San Rafael & 50% Wonago

I seem to be a fan of the lighter roasts for the flavours but like them to have good body backing them up not a light weight consistency if you get me. This one's so juicy it excites me, sticky juicy round the mouth and deffo up there with first ones that made me go "wow that's coffee!?" leading to now more enlightened and renewed love of the dark cup.


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## sjenner

I have been buying SweetShop through the last four iterations and find it consistently great, reading here that it is specifically suited to RO water was interesting as I am one but have gravitated towards this coffee unwittingly (perhaps).

Which reminds me.... Better get the orde....


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## jjprestidge

sjenner said:


> I have been buying SweetShop through the last four iterations and find it consistently great, reading here that it is specifically suited to RO water was interesting as I am one but have gravitated towards this coffee unwittingly (perhaps).
> 
> Which reminds me.... Better get the orde....


Suited to London RO water is probably what I should have said.

JP


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## CallumT

How does London RO make any sense RO strips water of almost everything then you'll need to remineralise.

If you mean remineralised with mains feed to bring up TDS it makes sense but surely there's just a post filtration system.


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## jjprestidge

CallumT said:


> How does London RO make any sense RO strips water of almost everything then you'll need to remineralise.
> 
> If you mean remineralised with mains feed to bring up TDS it makes sense but surely there's just a post filtration system.


I believe that commercial systems generally work on a percentage basis, so you are left with whatever composition of minerals you originally had in the same ratio. So, if you're low in magnesium to start with there's no simple way of boosting it.

JP


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## sjenner

CallumT said:


> How does London RO make any sense RO strips water of almost everything then you'll need to remineralise.
> 
> If you mean remineralised with mains feed to bring up TDS it makes sense but surely there's just a post filtration system.


I merely used the shorthand "RO water" because that was as originally mentioned...

If you remember this thread Callum...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?15962-Best-plumbed-in-water-filtration-system/page2&highlight=reverse+osmosis+londinium+reiss

...you will see that I am not just running pure RO water.


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## aphelion

DoubleShot said:


> How you enjoying the L1 Andy?
> 
> How would you describe the taste of those two? Keep seeing Sweetshop receiving positive comments. Might have to add both to my ever growing list of beans to try.


Yeah, the L1 is really great cheers









It is quite picky about distribution with my HG-One (technique seems quite important, nutating etc.).

Was getting a lot of channelling etc. (some of this down to the HG-One I'm sure).

Now that my technique is good, the overall feeling is that the L1 is "forgiving".

I can pull nice tasting shots using a large range of parameters (time, weight etc.) whereas on pumps they would be down the sink,

They almost always taste pretty good on the L1 (often very good).

I honestly can't see me changing back to pumps now.

In regards to Square Mile, like others, I've found Red Brick to be extremely hit and miss, however, the current iteration is an absolute blinder IMO.

I've tasted some of the latest Sweetshop, which is always a bit more experimental, but also very nice.

Red Brick is a good place to start with SQM

Cheers


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## 2971

My local favourite coffee place (Giddy Up) usually has Red Brick with Sweetshop on the second grinder. I really don't get on with Sweetshop, but Red Brick has been OK. The new Red Brick formulation seems to be WAY nicer to me, just to echo what others have said.


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## CallumT

@sjenner My comment was only regarding to the phrase 'London RO' - No doubt about RO having more extraction potential as a solvent for coffee.


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## jjprestidge

CallumT said:


> @sjenner My comment was only regarding to the phrase 'London RO' - No doubt about RO having more extraction potential as a solvent for coffee.


Really? Have you read Chris Hendon's paper?

JP


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## sjenner

jjprestidge said:


> Really? Have you read Chris Hendon's paper?
> 
> JP


No? What does it say?


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## jjprestidge

Too complicated to detail here, but it's freely available online. The book he's writing with Max will be more specific, but the upshot is that there are desirable quantities of minerals for coffee.

JP


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## sjenner

I thought that I was making precisely that point?


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## jjprestidge

sjenner said:


> I thought that I was making precisely that point?


I'm not arguing against you - it's in relation to Callum's statement that RO water has more extraction potential.

JP


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## sjenner

jjprestidge said:


> I'm not arguing against you - it's in relation to Callum's statement that RO water has more extraction potential.
> 
> JP


Perhaps Mr. Boots could get his gizmo out and prove it one way or the other... What does Chris Hendon's paper say?

My criteria is first to ensure that I have enough minerals to ensure that the water is not acidic and that there are enough PPMs to trigger the Gicar. The next is to attempt to get the count up to somewhere between 70-90 ppm of TH, as per SCAA water cribsheet. At this level, there will never be a need to descale.

I am not sure whether this type of water provides for better extractions than water with higher or lower concentrations of minerals though... I thought that the grinder was the most important factor in the equation? And that was the reason that some of the chaps here like their EK43's, and their 22-24% ratios.


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## Sk8-bizarre

Wow! Lol I'm lost, totally....

Only got a Classic, and I'm new but I do use water after its been through a Brita thingy.........

I can see I have a huge amount to learn and will eventually upgrade I'm sure but as I said though the Sweetshop blend I'm liking.


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## jjprestidge

sjenner said:


> Perhaps Mr. Boots could get his gizmo out and prove it one way or the other... What does Chris Hendon's paper say?
> 
> My criteria is first to ensure that I have enough minerals to ensure that the water is not acidic and that there are enough PPMs to trigger the Gicar. The next is to attempt to get the count up to somewhere between 70-90 ppm of TH, as per SCAA water cribsheet. At this level, there will never be a need to descale.
> 
> I am not sure whether this type of water provides for better extractions than water with higher or lower concentrations of minerals though... I thought that the grinder was the most important factor in the equation? And that was the reason that some of the chaps here like their EK43's, and their 22-24% ratios.


The point of the paper is that TDS is too crude a measure; you could have all sorts of ratios of Mg Ca and bicarbonate within a given tds, and they will make the coffee taste quite different, as they have different effects on acidity.

Most info in the coffee world on tds is hopelessly unscientific. Chris's paper (he's a theoretical chemist at University of Bath) is an attempt to redress this (I should add that Max and Lesley are co-writers, and it's published in a peer reviewed academic journal).

JP


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## jjprestidge

Sk8-bizarre said:


> Wow! Lol I'm lost, totally....
> 
> Only got a Classic, and I'm new but I do use water after its been through a Brita thingy.........
> 
> I can see I have a huge amount to learn and will eventually upgrade I'm sure but as I said though the Sweetshop blend I'm liking.


Not sure if your water comes from the same reservoirs as central Bath, but we have too much Ca and Bicarbonate and not enough Mg. The optimum solution is a calcium magnesium exchange filter (which is what we have) but not sure if there are any domestic filters available that do this.

I've got Sweetshop in at the moment if you run out and want some more.

JP


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## garydyke1

Unfortunately TDS tells you nothing in relation to taste.

You can make 2 brews with a TDS of 1.30% , one with ideal water and one with terrible water.


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## sjenner

jjprestidge said:


> The point of the paper is that TDS is too crude a measure; you could have all sorts of ratios of Mg Ca and bicarbonate within a given tds, and they will make the coffee taste quite different, as they have different effects on acidity.
> 
> Most info in the coffee world on tds is hopelessly unscientific. Chris's paper (he's a theoretical chemist at University of Bath) is an attempt to redress this (I should add that Max and Lesley are co-writers, and it's published in a peer reviewed academic journal).
> 
> JP


All I can say is...

http://londiniumespresso.com/forum/londinium-i-owners-forum/30-plumbed-in-what-about-water-quality

The real point of using TDS as a reference with regard to an RO system is that you begin with 0ppm, it is then up to the user to add his favoured combination of minerals and favoured level of temporary hardness...

If you know what you want to remineralise with, and what sort of figures you wish to achieve, you just bung a couple of cartridges in line, as many of us have experienced with those under-sink "water improvers", which are really just activated carbon particle filters that add a little (what they call) sparkle.

If one is attempting to analyse the content of the water in the tap, an amazing range of reagent tests are available from companies like Hach, and it is possible to test for all sorts of lumps in your water.


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## jjprestidge

garydyke1 said:


> Unfortunately TDS tells you nothing in relation to taste.
> 
> You can make 2 brews with a TDS of 1.30% , one with ideal water and one with terrible water.


We're talking about ppm tds in water, not the tds of the coffee.

JP


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## sjenner

jjprestidge said:


> We're talking about ppm tds in water, not the tds of the coffee.
> 
> JP


I thought that the contention was that water with low ppm achieves a better extraction ratio, which was why I referenced Mr. Boots as he has a refractometer.


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## garydyke1

jjprestidge said:


> We're talking about ppm tds in water, not the tds of the coffee.
> 
> JP


I was replying to stephen and his reference to refractometer to measure the 'success' of brewing with different waters


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## jjprestidge

sjenner said:


> I thought that the contention was that water with low ppm achieves a better extraction ratio, which was why I referenced Mr. Boots as he has a refractometer.


Here's a brief apposite excerpt:

"Based on our thermodynamic experiments, a compelling argument can be made for the favorable exchange of Ca2+ for Mg2+ to increase extraction yield, with no deficit to coffee flavor, and the additional benefit of removing the source of lime scale. We also emphasize the surprising result that Na+ binds weakly to most neutral compounds in coffee beans, suggesting that sodium rich water is of no benefit to the consumer, besides removing the source of scale build up. Thus, if the motivation is to extract the most coffee constituents (i.e., instant coffee), then Mg2+-rich water is most suitable. If the motivation is to achieve the best balance of flavors for a given lighter roast coffee, then both Ca2+ and Mg2+ do a comparable job,(35) with Mg2+ having the added feature of preventing scale formation."

The Role of Dissolved Cations in Coffee Extraction

Christopher H. Hendon, Lesley Colonna-Dashwood, and Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood

Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 2014 62 (21), 4947-4950

JP


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## MWJB

sjenner said:


> I am not sure whether this type of water provides for better extractions than water with higher or lower concentrations of minerals though... I thought that the grinder was the most important factor in the equation? And that was the reason that some of the chaps here like their EK43's, and their 22-24% ratios.


A more even grind distribution can push up the preference point for extraction yield by reducing the compromises of underextracted smaller particles &/or overextracted larger particles. A wider grind distribution/less even extraction method will pull this preference down...whatever the water, assuming the changes in water achieve a comparable EY (maybe through grind adjustments).

The water's composition effects how aggressively the water extracts, within that frame of preference, but if the water is less than ideal your coffee won't taste good (e.g. generic, chalky, blunted flavours), even in the preferred extraction yield range & at an equivalent coffee %TDS.


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## sjenner

jjprestidge said:


> Here's a brief apposite excerpt:
> 
> "Based on our thermodynamic experiments, a compelling argument can be made for the favorable exchange of Ca2+ for Mg2+ to increase extraction yield, with no deficit to coffee flavor, and the additional benefit of removing the source of lime scale. We also emphasize the surprising result that Na+ binds weakly to most neutral compounds in coffee beans, suggesting that sodium rich water is of no benefit to the consumer, besides removing the source of scale build up. Thus, if the motivation is to extract the most coffee constituents (i.e., instant coffee), then Mg2+-rich water is most suitable. If the motivation is to achieve the best balance of flavors for a given lighter roast coffee, then both Ca2+ and Mg2+ do a comparable job,(35) with Mg2+ having the added feature of preventing scale formation."
> 
> The Role of Dissolved Cations in Coffee Extraction
> 
> Christopher H. Hendon, Lesley Colonna-Dashwood, and Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood
> 
> Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 2014 62 (21), 4947-4950
> 
> JP


Thanks for that...

So my remineralisation cartridge contains 50% Magnesium (Corosex) and 50% Calcium (Marble chips), which is actually quite interesting... I could not get a sufficient number of calcium ppm's to cling to the RO water, adding the magnesium adds a significant amount.

In your extract above, the suggestion is that MG2 rich water is most suitable, and that is what my water seemed to want, if I wanted to achieve the SCAA guidelines.


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