# Newbie advice please



## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

I hope this is the correct forum for this post!

So today, even though my beans were only roasted a few days ago, I made my first two espresso's with my new Gaggia Classic and would like some feedback.

I used the double shot basket, not sure why and perhaps this will answer my own stupid question!

I used 18g of Italian Job coffee into 38g of espresso in only 11.5 seconds. That's really my question. The cup filled quickly.

So should I be using the single shot basket with 18g of coffee?

Would tampering harder do anything?

It tasted strong (clearly) but rather nice, if I do say so myself, for my first play around anyhow! Lol

Comments welcome....


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

The beans need about a week to rest. They will be to gassy at the moment


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

you need to adjust the grind finer until you are around 25seconds for that 38grams of extraction


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

38grams from 18g dose is too much, some will say 1.4x is a good place to start


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

aaroncornish said:


> ...... gassy at the moment


Does that mean 'lively'? The espresso level did settle back down into the cup quite quickly after switching off the machine.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

he's referring to the actual beans before they are ground and brewed


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

That's pretty quick for a shot like that. Do you know what type of basket they are - I mean if they're Gaggia ones or a different brand? It's unlikely you'd be able to get 18g into a single basket, it should be noticeably smaller...

Tamping harder could have an affect, because it should make it a bit harder for the water to pass through. I think the best advice people give it to try not to change too many things at once as it'll get hard to know what affect you're having from each change. Depending on how you tamped last time you might try to tamp harder and see what it does .

It's disappointing feeling like you're wasting coffee but this might be the time where you just get through loads of it without drinking it all in order to get where you want to be.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> 38grams from 18g dose is too much, some will say 1.4x is a good place to start


I am buzzing slightly!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

So:

- Double basket should be fine - single if angled can promote nasties

- Need finer grind

- 38 from 18 COULD be OK (but probably not so quick!)

- Try 30-36 out - 1.4 ratio suggested above is a bit short - a bit ristretto-esque.

- Don't stress tamping pressure - just make it nice and flat and even

Oh, and yes - Aaron's right - could be too soon - IJ I've heard can need longer


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

I do currently only have the two standard Gaggia baskets.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Id say 38grams out of 18 grams in sounds about right.

I reckon you need to grind finer. Tamping harder may help slow it down, but adjust one thing at a time. Id grind finer


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Id say 38grams out of 18 grams in sounds about right.
> 
> I reckon you need to grind finer. Tamping harder may help slow it down, but adjust one thing at a time. Id grind finer


But wouldn't a finer grind allow water to pass through it quicker?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

c10cko said:


> But wouldn't a finer grind allow water to pass through it quicker?


No, the opposite.

Imagine a bucket with holes in the bottom. If you fill it with pebbles (coarse grind), then water, the water will piss through quickly. If you fill it with sand (fine grind), it will drip through really slowly, if at all. You want to adjust your grind for the flow rate you want


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

c10cko said:


> But wouldn't a finer grind allow water to pass through it quicker?


Nope slower.

Try pouring water through a bed of flour and then a bed of marbles


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Both great analogies guys. Thank you!!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

c10cko said:


> But wouldn't a finer grind allow water to pass through it quicker?


In my experience no. A finer grind will slow down the flow with grinding too fine leading to the machine chocking. Experimenting with grinding finer has lead to me to experiencing this.

Also, can I ask if your puck has the impression of the shower screen screw on it ? Im lead to believe this indicates the basket has been filled with the right amount of coffee for its size, and im wondering if your double basket is a 20gram one?

My logic (flawed perhaps) is that if you overfill a basket it has nowhere left to expand and can cause a restricted flow. I cant see why the reverse of that wouldnt mean the flow would be increased. But would bow to someone with more knowledge on that matter


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> In my experience no. A finer grind will slow down the flow with grinding too fine leading to the machine chocking. Experimenting with grinding finer has lead to me to experiencing this.
> 
> Also, can I ask if your puck has the impression of the shower screen screw on it ? Im lead to believe this indicates the basket has been filled with the right amount of coffee for its size, and im wondering if your double basket is a 20gram one?
> 
> My logic (flawed perhaps) is that if you overfill a basket it has nowhere left to expand and can cause a restricted flow. I cant see why the reverse of that wouldnt mean the flow would be increased. But would bow to someone with more knowledge on that matter


Here you go


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

looks like a perfect impression to me, if not we're both doing it wrong.

but the grinds do look too course


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

tighten up the grind


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Lots of great advice here, keep us posted how you get on


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Thank you everyone. I'll try again tomorrow and report back here!! I love this place already!!


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

So another try just now.........

18g of coffee into 38g of espresso in 1 minute, 10 secs (Started timing once espresso started to drip, rather than on button. That correct?)

Now gone too fine, me thinks!

Same beans, same tamping. I'll go coarser later and try again.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

c10cko said:


> So another try just now.........
> 
> 18g of coffee into 38g of espresso in 1 minute, 10 secs (Started timing once espresso started to drip, rather than on button. That correct?)
> 
> ...


Yeah, exactly - don't go lots coarser though, just a smidge.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

sounds like you went too fine. but it all adds to your experience and gives you a better idea of parameters

Also i think your meant to start the timer as soon as you hit the switch.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Oh and time from when you press the button 30 sec =/- 5 is the goal really


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Thanks guys.

So my Wifey stood behind me whilst doing this today.

"What are you doing?" "Why are you weighing that?" Etc, etc

Once I've gotten the grinder setting correct, so I've 18g into 38g at 30 +/- 5 sec can I assume that all I will need to do is weigh beans in, grind, then time from the button push. Done!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

c10cko said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> So my Wifey stood behind me whilst doing this today.
> 
> ...


Weigh in and weigh out.

And time it from the button being pressed.

You will find you need to adjust the grind slightly as the beans age.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Another two espresso......

16g of coffee (slight mis-judge of grind), 36g of espresso...... 33 seconds!! I thought I have done it but then......

18g of coffee, 38g of espresso...... 53 seconds!! Surely the +2g of extra coffee wouldn't have made 20 seconds of difference?

I'm getting there.....


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

c10cko said:


> Surely the +2g of extra coffee wouldn't have made 20 seconds of difference?


Yeah easily!

Sounds good though - getting there!


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

jonc said:


> Yeah easily!


Wow!!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

c10cko said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> So my Wifey stood behind me whilst doing this today.
> 
> ...


The lure of the simple lever is calling you


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

coffeechap said:


> The lure of the simple lever is calling you


You know I'm gonna....!


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

So I made an espresso for my Wifey yesterday. She made the following comments.

The shot wasn't smooth, but powdery. Not grainy, but a thick powdery thickness to it.

Thoughts?

I'm using double shot basket with 18g to 38g. Rave Italian Job beans.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Change beans


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

c10cko said:


> So I made an espresso for my Wifey yesterday. She made the following comments.
> 
> The shot wasn't smooth, but powdery. Not grainy, but a thick powdery thickness to it.
> 
> ...


Is that how the shot came out? Did the cremma just evaporate?

Reminds me of Trainspotting's Worse Toilet in Scotland.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Is that how the shot came out? Did the cremma just evaporate?
> 
> Reminds me of Trainspotting's Worse Toilet in Scotland.


No, lol! I drank most of it to try and show the cremma on the side of the cup.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Check on here but it sounds like Italian Job is very popular in terms of sales but not necessarily well loved on the forum, especially it's must recent version. It sounds like it is a bit more of an old school espresso blend than most of their other stuff.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

Tried Rave Signature Blend this morning. I thought it was a lot smoother. Wifey yet to try.

I got the grind correct too. 18g into 38 in 30secs!!


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

The reason I think we normally advise against Italian job is because it has Robusta in it. Not sure if the recent change in blend has stopped that.

Sounds like you are getting on better with signature blend anyway.


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## c10cko (Jul 16, 2015)

risky said:


> The reason I think we normally advise against Italian job is because it has Robusta in it. Not sure if the recent change in blend has stopped that.
> 
> Sounds like you are getting on better with signature blend anyway.


What's Robusta, please?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

c10cko said:


> What's Robusta, please?


Different strain of coffee to Arabica. Grows at lower altitudes so can be grown where Arabica strains can't. Inferior quality. Contains twice the amount of caffeine as Arabica. Used in some blends to add a caffeine kick. Smells like burnt rubber and ash tray when cupped.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

c10cko said:


> What's Robusta, please?


The coffee we normally use comes from the Arabica species of coffee plant. Robusta is a different species and is commonly used to make instant coffee. It has a stronger flavour, can have a grainy taste/texture etc. I guess Rave add it to help the coffee punch through milk, but it isn't to many people's tastes.


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