# Which coffee machine to buy?



## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

I've had a number of coffee machines over the year but wasn't overly impressed with them (likely due to my lack of understanding about what makes a good coffee). I bought a Sage Oracle and it was alright, then when i put fresh beans in it - i loved it. And I was able to do coffee art consistently. But the steam wand kept breaking (loose wire i think as if i jiggled it, it would work for awhile). I had it fixed a few times in warranty but once the warranty was up - Id had enough and bought the Sage Nespresso machine which is pretty awesome. But its a lot harder to do coffee art with.

The bonus on the Nespresso is that i can have a caffeinated coffee in the morning, and then as many decaf as i like. It had never occurred to me until this morning that i could have bought a separate grinder for decaff before. Although i do like the automated tamping on Sage Oracle. I have RSI and struggle with asserting pressure at times.

But i'm now ready to buy a proper machine again. I love the ease of use of the Sage machines, but im not a fan of their reliability. Its been over 5 years since ive looked into coffee machine recommendations. Could someone recommend one at under £2k that's reliable, easy to use and makes consistently good coffee?

The one i'm leaning to is the Sage Oracle Touch if it ever goes back down to around £1400 again.

thank you

(hopefully i posted it in a suitable place!)


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## Waitforme (Dec 13, 2020)

Lelit Bianca, but then I'm biased !

Seriously , I'd get a prosumer machine if I was spending that kind of cash.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Resseh said:


> Could someone recommend one at under £2k that's reliable, easy to use and makes consistently good coffee?


 You'll also need a grinder. If you buy a single dose grinder, like the Niche Zero, or the Solo, you can go backs and forwards, e.g.: you can grind you caffeinated drink in the morning snd then your subsequent decaffeinated coffees through the day, by just adjusting it. As long as you put the marker in the same place and make a note for each bean on what the setting is, you'd be fine.

So, that's approx. £500 for the Niche Sero (the Solo is £100 cheaper than the Niche Zero).

which leaves you with £1,500.

If you want to press a button and make a coffee, you want something which makes amazing milk, heats up relatively fast (under 20 minutes), you can change the temperature easily (decaf may require a slightly hotter temp sometimes), and where the maintenance is dead simple without involving you to lubricate the group or other valves regularly, I'd strongly advise you to take a look at the Lelit Elizabeth. Bella Barista sells them, as well as the Solo grinder.

The other contender could be the ACS Minima, sold by BlackCat Coffee. but that takes longer to heat up and the pump is infamously noisy.

the machines I mentioned - and the Bianca too - are covered and reviewed on the link below.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

There are others. But be aware that the E61 group takes a while to heat up (you can use a smart plug to sort that out though) and it will require maintenance (periodic lubrication) unless it's solenoid operated like the Minima.

and lastly&#8230; water. If you put tap water through your machine, eventually (within months) it will start behaving erratically and will eventually break due to limescale deposits clogging up pipes, jets and clinging on to sensors. A Britta filter won't help much is your water is hard. So do think about that too. There are ways to deal with that, but we can cross that bridge when we get there.


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

Looks cool. Just read a long review - i like the idea that its easy to use but has the potential for me to use the advanced options when i get more comfortable with the machine.


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> the machines I mentioned - and the Bianca too - are covered and reviewed on the link below.
> 
> https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/


 thanks! Thats where i found the Bianca review. I'll use that site to check out the other recommendations.

When I got my bar installed, I had the water tap fitted with a filter but i think the water is still not ideal as i notice my kettle developing limescale within weeks. So i will definitely be looking into water.

I might have to budget more for the grinders, as i want to be able to have the hopper to store both decaff + caffeinated separately.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Resseh said:


> as i want to be able to have the hopper to store both decaff + caffeinated separately


 Hmm. I'm assuming you are familiar with the terms "single dosing" and "retention"?


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Hmm. I'm assuming you are familiar with the terms "single dosing" and "retention"?


 I think i know about retention now (i was reading a review on the niche zero although it was a bit too technical for me). Im just watching a youtube review - it looks awesome. I think this looks like the perfect grinder for me although its the only review ive seen so far. Hopefully the youtube algorithms will kick in and start recommending various coffee machines/grinders.

The thing i would miss from the Sage ORacle, is the auto tamping though.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Resseh - so, in summary: often, with a single dose grinder, there's no hopper as such: you put the beans in the "hopper" - which can only take a small amount - and grind what you need. There's virtually no retention, therefore there's no wastage, and what you put in you'll get out. For home, this is an ideal scenario. You can even keep the pre-weighted doses in small, air tight containers so you just dump her into the hopper and grind away.

If auto-tamping is actually worrying you, you can buy self-levelling calibrated tampers. They work really well. Examples are The Bravo Tamper, The Decent v4 tamper and the The Force tamper. There are others.

Now&#8230; owning a coffee machine and grinder is said to be a hobby. You need to look after your coffee machine, clean, service, maintain. If you don't, it will end up the same way as your Sage Oracle and your coffee will taste just mediocre at best. That part might not be for everyone.

Anyway, I said more than enough. 😉 - ask away any question after you've done your reading on candidate machines and grinders. 👍


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Niche plus Sage Dual Boiler (often on deal) is an end game pairing.. well within your budget. That said there are some fantastic machines in the classifieds on this site..


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> and lastly&#8230; water. If you put tap water through your machine, eventually (within months) it will start behaving erratically and will eventually break due to limescale deposits clogging up pipes, jets and clinging on to sensors. A Britta filter won't help much is your water is hard. So do think about that too. There are ways to deal with that, but we can cross that bridge when we get there.


 what were the water options please?

Only downside is that there aren't many plugs in my coffee area. i do have a large surface (see photo) but i prefer to keep that free to use as a bar.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Nice kitchen. 😉

So, as you can see from my signature, I use Distilled water snd then remineralise it. Others use Reverse Osmosis and remineralise it. Others use bottled water like Volvic or Tesco's Ashbeck, but, on the long run, it will build up lime scale.

Others just buy an Osmio Zero. (Review on the same place).


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

Resseh said:


> what were the water options please?
> 
> Only downside is that there aren't many plugs in my coffee area. i do have a large surface (see photo) but i prefer to keep that free to use as a bar.
> 
> View attachment 59271


 What you lack in plugs, you gain in weaponry.

Seriously though, nice kitchen


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

Chriss29 said:


> What you lack in plugs, you gain in weaponry.
> 
> Seriously though, nice kitchen


 thank you ! though it's actually the bar to the cinema room. we converted what was the garage.


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

Resseh said:


> thank you ! though it's actually the bar to the cinema room. we converted what was the garage.
> 
> View attachment 59273


 Truly Awesome! Great work, what a conversion!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The RSI comes from Demon slaying.

I would ignore the Oracle touch. You don't need to tamp hard at all, self levelling tampers or a push style one should help anyway.

The Sage Dual boiler was a machine I considered and can be modified for flow or pressure profiling, but there were issues for me re servicing so I went for one that I could fully service myself. I moved from an Expobar to a Minima for the solenoid group and larger service boiler, and the noise of the pump is pretty comparable even in my beta. I imagine the production machines are a little quieter than the Expobar office leva.

All the machines I'd mention have already been suggested, though you have plenty of choice in your budget.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Resseh said:


> thank you ! though it's actually the bar to the cinema room. we converted what was the garage.
> 
> View attachment 59273


 Is that the Lich King sword? That looks HUGE!

Nice Portal 2 poster, a person of culture I see. Room looks amazing!


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

thanks all. i have just ordered the niche zero and will think about the coffee machine closer to october. probably the lelit.

the water in my area is hard so i'll be getting Volvic. I'm also going to use this time to put more plugs in, and change the splash back in the bar.


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## Resseh (Nov 14, 2014)

my Niche Zero is now on its way! i haven't bought the coffee machine yet but i wanted to start buying everything else.

The Osmio forum offer is over so i'll likely wait for the kickstarter on the other machine.

in the mean time, what bottled water should i get? i've googled it - and Tesco Ashbeck seemed to be recommended awhile ago. is this still the best one to avoid limescale?


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