# am i asking too much??



## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

so im now swaying toward traditional barista rather than bean to cup but wifey likes the idea of having something one can press a button on when time is short so i had thought cheapy pod machine and a traditional machine but Andy on here had suggested some machines may be capable of doing both albeit some may have to be modified from factory spec, is this feasable or am i better with a multitude of differing machines on the worktop ??? your thoughts are appreciated !!!!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Budget?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What did andy suggest?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I've owned a Tassimo machine for the past 4-5 years. Small and compact. One button operation. It's probably only been used twice since I purchased by Brewtus last December but I won't be throwing it out just yet. No reason you can't have a couple of machines (one mainly for convenience rather than taste, lol!)


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

budget prob £1200 ish inc vat but could be tempted further !!! andy was going to ask fracino if some of there 1 group machines could be converted just wondered if others had an alternate idea or indeed have the same set up to please the wife !!!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Personally, provided you have the required space to accommodate something small and compact such as a Nespresso or Tassimo machine, I wouldn't limit yourself with your main machine over ones that can take or be converted to take pods. That's a decent budget and you'll get a great setup to startup I'm sure. That's not far off my outlay for second hand Brewtus IV DB & Ceado E37 combo.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'd agree, get a decent setup with £1k and spend £200 on a narrow Nespresso machine and separate 'aeroccino' frother if you have a few inches of extra space if her indoors wants milk-based coffee at the push of a button. You may well convert her to serious coffee in the process (handy for upgradeitis) and having a Nespresso might save you from being late for work now and again.

Edit. John Lewis are selling a Nespresso Inissia and aeroccino bundle for £109.99. Get that for when you want push button simplicity and that leaves you the thick end of £1100 for serious kit.


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

sounds like the way forward just wondered if there was a decent machine alreay produced that did both but then men cant multi task anyway ha ha would consider second hand with a good history / service detail also


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sage Oracle


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

eyesblue

If only you posted this thread sooner. Nespresso we're offering a free £75 credit (3 separate orders each with £25 off) on orders direct from themselves on machines purchased up until 31/01/15!. Seems to be offered every Xmas and sometimes also at other times of the year (although the amount of credit often is for a lesser amount).

https://www.nespresso.com/uk/en/pages/legal


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://www.sageappliances.co.uk/the-oracle.html

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/19339/Sage-The-Oracle-

You're compromising a bit on grinder but it gives you manual control and your other half should find it easy enough to use.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

A few suggestions mentioned here:

http://www.home-barista.com/advice/shopping-for-espresso-machine-upgrade-so-confused-t4957-20.html

jeebsy

Am I imagining it or did I read in the manual that there is a pod kit available for use on the Brewtus? Not that I shall be exercising this option but it might be a consideration for the OP.


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

hmmm just clciked the link and it say all offers must be received before 28th feb ??? never ending dfs sale maybe ?? thanks for that


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## Michael the bowler (Feb 19, 2013)

Bella Barista sell capsules that with adapter fit in E61 group head. As well as a few machines designed to use the capsules.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

You needed to have purchased a machine by 31/01/15. You then have until 28/02/15 to register for the free £70 credit.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Michael the bowler said:


> Bella Barista sell capsules that with adapter fit in E61 group head. As well as a few machines designed to use the capsules.


Has anyone tried available pods in an E61 machine? Dare say anyone on here will wish to comment publicly, lol?!


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

doh lol have to say am liking the look of the expobar hmmmmm


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

There's a good following of current or previous owners of Expobar Leva machines on here. Rarely a bad word said about them for their price point. That's why I purchased a Brewtus IV DB, despite originally thinking a Gaggia Classic would be good enough for my first machine!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If you are looking a spending £1000 on proper kit and wanting to hit the ground running , i would look into getting some basic barista training locally , to avoid first timer frustration and making your wife think you have lashed out £'s on something useless...Perhaps once you have it nailed , it might encourage her to try to ,,


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Now that's something I should have done, lol!

But it's never too late to teach an old dog new tricks...


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

oh im always encouraging her to try new things lol


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

i agree with the others - get your wife a second hand nespresso off ebay and yourself some proper kit. Gaggia classic and eureka mignon good place to start - you are then coming in significantly under budget and when your wife realises she is drinking crap coffee you can move all of that on but will have a much better idea of what better coffee kit you would like (you will probably keep the mignon and then just get a better coffee machine for milk).


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

too late im in love with the expobar now !!!


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

eyesblue said:


> too late im in love with the expobar now !!!


Great machine, I went from a Gaggia Classic to one, no going back!

I can make a cappa from start to finish in about 3mins and that's with faffing about with scales & timer etc.

The coffee is really outstanding with the Expobar and you can make tea with it too:good:

I've been making espresso at home for years so I have an idea of how to go about it but believe me, the Expobar is kids play, a four year old could make a decent attempt at espresso with one.

At the moment I'm using Rave's Italian Job beans and for the price per kg they are an absolute steal but Stewarts of Trent Bridge does an Italian blend that is better than the Rave blend, I think, but Stewarts are slighty more expensive though.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

twotone said:


> At the moment I'm using Rave's Italian Job beans and for the price per kg they are an absolute steal but Stewarts of Trent Bridge does an Italian blend that is better than the Rave blend, I think, but Stewarts are slighty more expensive though.


Worth it?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Aye, IMO, yes but the Rave blend is so bleeding addictive if you like chocolate.

Don't know if it was just a slightly dodgy first kg bag I had from Rave or it was just me with the new machine and what not but this second bag I'm now using is wonderful.


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

had a nano second of a negative thought in that it takes 15 minutes to warm up then ..... a wifi enabled socket, barista at the control of my android !!!! problem solved !!!!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

eyesblue said:


> had a nano second of a negative thought in that it takes 15 minutes to warm up then ..... a wifi enabled socket, barista at the control of my android !!!! problem solved !!!!


More like half an hour


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Ideally you'll want to switch your Brewtus on sooner than 15 mins prior to pulling your first shot. Some say ideally 40 to 45 mins to get everything nicely warmed up.


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## eyesblue (Jan 1, 2015)

wifi apps enable timed on off so doodle all sorted !!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Been thinking about one of those for my Rocket. The E61 is a serious chunk of metal and that's the bit that needs to come up to temp (along with the PF). I used to let the Classic warm up for 20 mins and the R58 more like 40. I've got it on a mechanical timer for the mornings, but being able to switch it on before I even get home would be the ultimate.

I concur that it's worth spending the extra on higher end kit. I went from Classic (all mods and PID) to a dual boiler rotary Rocket and not only the quality of teh coffee but also the repeatability of it went up massively.

However I still can't do latte art to save my life and I'm just waiting for someone to come round for coffee and say "you spent how much? Do us a rosetta then!" Nowt wrong with the coffee, but I think my milk could be more consistent and then I might have a chance of learning how to pour. The videos make it look so deceptively easy, so I can only assume it's the lack of full sleeve tat, flat cap, flesh tunnels and a massive beard. Or skillz LOL!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

hotmetal

I'm not the only one then unable to produce silky microfoam with which to start attempting latte art. Agree with you that the videos (Verve one for example) make it look so simple that it looks like child's play. So far don't think I've seen a mention of how long to spend adding air at the very beginning. Today I had the steam tip half immersed under surface of milk for 10 secs or so before plunging it fully and still not enough microfoam by the time temp tag had changed colour signifying 65 degrees c had been reached. Will continue practising...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> hotmetal
> 
> I'm not the only one then unable to produce silky microfoam with which to start attempting latte art. Agree with you that the videos (Verve one for example) make it look so simple that it looks like child's play. So far don't think I've seen a mention of how long to spend adding air at the very beginning. Today I had the steam tip half immersed under surface of milk for 10 secs or so before plunging it fully and still not enough microfoam by the time temp tag had changed colour signifying 65 degrees c had been reached. Will continue practising...


To create microfoam you need the tip just at the surface so you get the ccchhhk ccchhhk sucking noise. That for 2-4 seconds then submerge it to get the milk spinning and incorporate it


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> To create microfoam you need the tip just at the surface so you get the ccchhhk ccchhhk sucking noise. That for 2-4 seconds then submerge it to get the milk spinning and incorporate it


I thought it was a tssk tssk noise


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

I thought I was getting the tssk tssk sound at the beginning but have the nozzle (screw on tip part) half submerged under top surface of the milk. Was following that from the excellent Verve video.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sounds like it starts with a cccchhhh to me


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> I thought I was getting the tssk tssk sound at the beginning but have the nozzle (screw on tip part) half submerged under top surface of the milk. Was following that from the excellent Verve video.


Do a video


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> I thought I was getting the tssk tssk sound at the beginning but have the nozzle (screw on tip part) half submerged under top surface of the milk. Was following that from the excellent Verve video.


I watched that video, twice! My first attempt was rubbish but I realised straight away what I was doing wrong and that is you have to have the tip just skimming the top of the milk until the temp of the milk gets to about 40 degrees c then stick the tip into the milk further but keep the 'vortext' thing going on or the milk spinning until the temp gets to 70 degrees c and it works.

I'm not great at it but the milk is now like wet paint but still some larger bubbles so just need to keep trying:coffee:


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks Tony. Had a feeling it would be something simple that needed tweaking. Will try again in the morning. Approximately how long in seconds before you submerge the tip into the milk? Whilst I have a milk frothing thermometer, I no longer use it as it seems to hinder trying to achieve a vortex plus in my two small jugs is far too long! Have a temptag on one. Need to purchase some more for my other jugs.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Thanks Tony. Had a feeling it would be something simple that needed tweaking. Will try again in the morning. Approximately how long in seconds before you submerge the tip into the milk? Whilst I have a milk frothing thermometer, I no longer use it as it seems to hinder trying to achieve a vortex plus in my two small jugs is far too long! Have a temptag on one. Need to purchase some more for my other jugs.


Just made another cappa there DS and the milk is getting consistantly good now, I'm really pleased.

I had the tip into the milk for about maybe ten-15 seconds then dipped the tip in a bit further until the temp got to 70 degrees (about another 30secs) on the frothometer, it's not quite the consistancy of double cream but it's probably the best milk that I'm making now.

I keep the jug rock solid, just as described in the video, the tip goes into the milk slightly off centre and the jug tipped towards me at about 30 degrees and the milk spins all of the time.

When I'm done it doesn't look as though it's worked but just like the video there's a great end to the milk on the top of the coffee.

Watch the video a few more times DS.

Tony

BTW, I changed my milk jug from a 0.5 ltr SS one to this below and it has made a big difference I think


 ES11537



Black Teflon Coated Stainless Steel Frothing Jug 1.0lt/32oz Price £13.75 + VAT*Add to Basket*



 

http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/espresso_accessories.html


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Very helpful. Just watched the video again and Baca (spelling?) describes and the video shows the screw on tip from steam wand, half submerged below surface of the milk prior to turning the steam on. And that's what I've been trying up until now. Will try resting the very end of the tip on the surface next time and keep it there for 10-15 secs. I do get some kind of vortex effect going on but I'm sure it could spin more like in the video. Another part I'm probably doing incorrectly is that I continue submerging the steam wand further and further into the milk whereas I guess I'm only supposed to submerge it enough so the whole of the nozzle is below the milk's surface and then just hold it there to prevent introducing any more air?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Very helpful. Just watched the video again and Baca (spelling?) describes and the video shows the screw on tip from steam wand, half submerged below surface of the milk prior to turning the steam on. And that's what I've been trying up until now. Will try resting the very end of the tip on the surface next time and keep it there for 10-15 secs. I do get some kind of vortex effect going on but I'm sure it could spin more like in the video. Another part I'm probably doing incorrectly is that I continue submerging the steam wand further and further into the milk whereas I guess I'm only supposed to submerge it enough so the whole of the nozzle is below the milk's surface and then just hold it there to prevent introducing any more air?


Just stick the tip in to where it screws into the end of the wand or a wee bit deeper but don't go to deep and keep the jug solid and also, maybe use a larger jug.

I measure the milk into the jug btw, I use an another cup (same size) and fill the cup up to three quarters with cold milk then the milk goes into the jug.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Liquid Crystal Frothing Thermometer looks just the ticket. Especially as you can see an indication of the temperature rising rather than just once it's reached its optimum final temperature as per temptags. By then, for me anyway, it's usually too late. Lol!

1 litre seems like a HUGE size if only wishing to froth enough milk for one or two flat whites. My first jug was an Andrew James 600ml and that felt too big for my needs. I have a 250ml and a 350ml jug which I use most of the time.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

twotone said:


> Just stick the tip in to where it screws into the end of the wand or a wee bit deeper but don't go to deep and keep the jug solid and also, maybe use a larger jug.


I've been immersing the screw on steam nozzle hallway into the milk. i.e. the pointed tip itself is under the milk surface and the remainder of the nozzle is above the surface.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> I've been immersing the screw on steam nozzle hallway into the milk. i.e. the pointed tip itself is under the milk surface and the remainder of the nozzle is above the surface.


Aye do that second but first just skim the milk with the nozzle tip, i.e. have the tip just into the milk and no more.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Liquid Crystal Frothing Thermometer looks just the ticket. Especially as you can see an indication of the temperature rising rather than just once it's reached its optimum final temperature as per temptags. By then, for me anyway, it's usually too late. Lol!
> 
> 1 litre seems like a HUGE size if only wishing to froth enough milk for one or two flat whites. My first jug was an Andrew James 600ml and that felt too big for my needs. I have a 250ml and a 350ml jug which I use most of the time.


Larger jug is defo making a difference for me, I've only got about 150ml in the jug when frothing.

I use these

*Liquid Crystal Frothing Thermometer* 



*
*http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/espresso_accessories.html


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

In some of the videos I've watched they mention topping milk up to the start of the bottom of the spout when looking inside your milk jug. Therefore assumed if using a larger jug but still only wishing to stretch enough milk for one cup, that it would be too little?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> In some of the videos I've watched they mention topping milk up to the start of the bottom of the spout when looking inside your milk jug. Therefore assumed if using a larger jug but still only wishing to stretch enough milk for one cup, that it would be too little?


No, don't forget your more or less doubling the volume of the milk so you do need a bit a room for that which is why I think that the bigger jug is making a difference.

Just measured the cup and it's 200ml of milk I'm putting into the milk jug.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Will certainly order some frothing thermometers. Possibly a Teflon coated large jug also? Glad you mentioned this before I ordered a sheet of temptags.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I don't get why you'd use a massive jug for bugger all milk


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

What size jug(s) you using jeebsy?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

350ml

using a big jug makes the milk shallower which fecks with your swirling


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Motta Eurpa per chance? That's my goto jug (250ml). Espro Toroid 2 (350ml) is the other one


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Milkypitch Poppy


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> I don't get why you'd use a massive jug for bugger all milk


Seems better than the old smaller one.

The milk is definitely better IMO but I'll try the smaller one tomorrow:good:


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The only place i've ever seen baristas steam milk in gigantic jugs is the type of cafe i wouldn't order a coffee in


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Starbuck$? 

Just found this video on steaming milk. Few slight differences to the one by Verve.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

This is one of the most informative videos of latte art techniques I've yet seen:


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## urpert (Mar 22, 2012)

I have a WeMo socket with my Classic plugged into it. It's reliable enough (though not 100%) and very useful to be able to switch it on 30 minutes before I'm going to arrive home. (It does basic 7 day timer functions too.)


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