# Oracle/Touch/Barista



## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

<dons fireproof suit></dons>

So, I am in the market for a new machine.. Nothing wrong with the old one (Gaggia Classic, bought from here about 3 years ago) but just never really got on with it. Its been ok, just never got the milk the way I wanted and espresso was alway so-so.

We've just finished our kitchen extension and are looking for a new machine - Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF) was always to look for something that had the simplicity of Nespresso but that I could enjoy as a hobby and learn what I was doing wrong. Kids love the steamed milk and especially hot chocolate..

I started looking initially at the Oracle, then got sidetracked to the Touch and then comparing to the Barista Touch.

Oracle I feel is a good machine (and comes with the White Glove Service to make it better), bit worried that its too "complicated" for MrsToby. Slightly concerned that I'll feel like I'm buying an older model but price difference is appealing.

Oracle Touch - I'm wowed by every review that I've read, it really does seem like the most straightforward way to get really good milk based coffee without having to think about it (which suits both of us!). But the cost.. oh the cost! Flipside is I work from home quite a bit so do tend to drink a lot of coffee but I'm still struggling to get over the cost..

Barista Touch - The baby brother - seems to have enough of the idiot-proof bits that its viable and is half the price.. just will I get upgrade-itus after a couple of years? Tamping consistently is ok for me, not sure that MrsToby has ever done it so a learning curve there but it does idiot milk which is one thing..

Yes, there are a multitude of other machines out there but most still treat the learning curve as a mountain.. after 3 years of struggling to get the Gaggia working I'm worried that it might just be me! Hence why a super-auto machine (but a decent one!) is on the cards..

My beans have always been HasBean or Notes and normally 250g will see me through a working week (3 days at home) so my problems are probably not bean related. I bought a Mignon Mk2 with the Gaggia so will be probably off-loading that as well to off-set the cost. I can do great Pour Over and started about 7 years ago with an Aeropress so I'm comfortable around coffee.

I've the space in the kitchen, I can tolerate the (gulp!) cost if I have to but looking to perform a quick sanity check here before I start breaking out the credit card. I'm guessing that they are both too new to have much feedback, the couple of threads I've seen just seem to highlight the shipping date and Wired review..

Having just read back what I've written I can tell that my heart is with the Gucci Touch.. has anyone actually tried it who can pass comment?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Having seen the post I had to have a look at these especially the Barista Touch. Looking at the manual it seems to be a step back from the Barista Express. Custom shot rather than 2 custom shots via the buttons. Grinder might have finer steps than the BE or maybe not - something it could do with really. No pressure gauge - people say don't take much notice of that but I find it useful, partly for noticing changes before the taste changes and also for tuning. Still a 54mm portafilter which makes life rather difficult if different ones are needed..







The manual does mention preheating the portafilter though I'd do that via the grouphead - lot less mess and water than using the hot water outlet. It can produce differing quantities of hot water. My BE falls a bit short of what I use when it times out but would the Touch give me what I want? A setting for that would be nicer.

I'd save even more and just buy a BE. Once set up and settled down to the bean grinder output is pretty stable. I find then that the timer knob just needs occasional rather small twitches. The output usually slowly declines but not always once it's settled.

The Oracles are dual boiler machines. While Sage do I think on all of them heat the grouphead separately they will take a lot longer to heat up compared with the thermoblock models. The actual dual boiler model offers some interesting tuning facilities that I think are unique in that price range. Not sure about the Oracles which also seem to be aimed at automating doubles.

I wont say what I suspect about cost aspects comparing the touch version of the BE with the usual one.

Personally I would buy the dual boiler model as is like a shot apart from the fact that it takes a while to heat up.

John

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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks John for taking the time out to both read the manuals and comment.

The BT I was only interested in because of the "magic milk" - set and forget and TBH I would have probably ended up with the BE if I'd actually thought about it..

As it turns out I got a small bonus from work today so that made it a fight between the two Oracles and in the end my lust for shiny ruled my heart and head and I've plumped for the Oracle Touch - all the simplicity of the touch screen but with a serious double boiler behind it that can be controlled.

Ordered via John Lewis so got a decent warranty (just in case - there have been one or two reports of machines conking out at about the 2 year point) and if I don't get on with it or think that its a bit too much then JL will normally take pretty much anything back for a credit note. Hopefully will get it tomorrow so will post up some first impressions. Just seen that my HasBean shipment has shipped so that should mean some nice fresh beans to play with...


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I think you knew all along that the oracle touch was the way to go 

Looking forward to seeing it set up and in use.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Please let us know how you get on with the oracle touch Toby - it looks an amazing piece of coffee technology and will be interesting to compare with the experience ronsil has had with original oracle


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I couldn't find any reports on Sage machines conking out only comments that all machines have problems from time to time. We bought from JL as well mainly because I'd expect a replacement unit if it did conk out within the warrantee period. Since then I have heard that one company gives 3 years on them. People have mentioned complications in Sage machines but even if they have only half done a decent job on the electronics they should outlast moving mechanical parts easily. Parts that sometimes get skimped are power items such as what ever controls the heating in them. Water and damp often isn't a good idea but I get the impression that most makers stick them is some sort of case. If I was working on them I would wonder if conformal coating was a cheaper option. People might have a bad impression of electronics from some car manufacturers such as Leyland. The problem there was not using fibreglass circuit boards. A thing of the past - I'd hope.

The problem for me with my design hat on is that the BT might even be cheaper to make than the BE and other than an even faster heat up time doesn't really offer anything for me. The BT might even result in the BE disappearing at some point. Maybe there will be a touch DBP next.







Mobile phones have a lot to answer for. That''s really where touch started then some company thought how about using it for a computer of sorts and caught Microsoft napping. Now touch screens pop up in all sorts of areas. They save over buttons in some ways and even more can be added easily at virtually no cost at all.

John

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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

So, it arrived yesterday in a fairly big box. However, I'd been out for a Christmas party so in no fit state..

This morning, dropped the kids off to nursery and then unpacked and washed everything up. Filled it with water, confirmed that I have really hard water via the dip strip that comes with it and loaded it with coffee. There was a note in the box that said that the grinder has already been run through and calibrated so discard the first dose - I guess that saves me from running a Kg of beans through!. Filling and tamping seems to be good -








I then ran it through on the default settings - literally without changing anything other than selecting a double rather than a single (who drinks single shots anyway?). Resulting cup had loads of creama, I think initial flow started about 10s and seemed to take about 30s all in. Couldn't find my scales so couldn't weigh the output but will do next time. Steamed some milk on the Flat White setting to make a cortado and again, a very simple process - pour milk into jug, add wand, press button and wait. Resulting drink was certainly acceptable for zero effort on my part and I can see why people are going to want to buy this machine - it really does do everything for you! (which is pretty much what I wanted). Interesting test will be MrsToby to see if she can make her normal Americano without instruction this afternoon (Star Wars day for me...)

I'll write a full review later but first impressions are very positive (and yes, for a £2k machine they bloody should be!)


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Oh and if you've never tried HasBeans Black Tower you really really should. I'm now properly awake!


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## thewanted (Dec 19, 2017)

Hey Toby,

You're a man after my own heart! I posted on this forum today about the Oracle Touch and then found this thread which has exactly the kind of information I was looking for since we appear to want the same things from a coffee machine.

I'm looking forward to reading your full review, but I have two questions if you don't mind:

1) How long does it take the machine to get ready after you turn it on? I know you can program it to turn on in the morning, but sometimes you can't plan ahead that far.

2) Have you tried non-dairy milk like almond or oat? If so, did the Oracle Touch do a good job of frothing it?


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## Josh Bear (Dec 17, 2015)

Hi

also interested in reading your full review. I have had the oracle for over two years and wonder if the touch will be a good move upwards as a great flat white still eludes me!


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## thewanted (Dec 19, 2017)

Josh Bear said:


> Hi
> 
> also interested in reading your full review. I have had the oracle for over two years and wonder if the touch will be a good move upwards as a great flat white still eludes me!


Flat white is the only drink I'm really interested in, so for £2k it had better make the best flat white ever to exist


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Consider this an interim review while I gather yet more data...

So a week in and I have to say that I've not had a bad coffee yet! Dose is pretty constant at around 22/23g - my coffee scales are at work for Aeropress duty so I've been using the kitchen scales which don't have the same resolution. I don't measure every dose but every time I remember I try to record it. In terms of the adjustment I've stuck to 28 from a default out of the box of 24 - this seems to give me a start time thats about 10 secs after hitting the brew button but most importantly it just tastes right..

Flat white - my drink of choice (other than a cortado first thing). Set by brew time rather than anything else and I've got it set to 30 secs which gives me 100g of output pretty constantly. I could piss about and aim for exactly 60ml but I'm trying to work the Oracle way to see how it performs. Espresso output is lush - nice crema, slow start (10 secs) and has that classic warm honey dribble.. In terms of milk I've kept the temp at 65C but have upped the "foam" quotient from 4 to 6 as I'm trying the whole latte art thing (badly). Again, the milk comes out flawless and I'm pretty sure if I could do art then I'd be doing art by now...

Long Black - MrsToby's drink of choice. Same 23g dose but dialled in for 25 sec brew and 25 sec hot water. She's really happy with the ratio and has the confidence to have a go now that I've demo'd it to her. Assuming that she's the target market who wants a decent coffee but doesn't want to fuss then the Oracle Touch delivers for her in spades.

Kids - I've added a hot chocolate setting which is milk to 65C and 8 on the foam; steam the milk then add to 3 heaped teaspoons of proper hot chocolate powder (I tried the other way and it went everywhere! Nesquik on the other hand was fine..). My 5 year old loves it and now asks for it every night. Even my 7 year old who's not a massive fan likes it as I can make it really foamy for her.

Not played around too much as not really felt the need (too busy with gin while catching up on a year of tv..). Whenever I've gone to use the machine it just works.. I often have the milk and brew going at the same time so the dual boiler bit seems to work well.

Someone asked about start-up - I've set it to automatically come on at 6am and off again at 7am which works well, outside of these times the startup is about 3-4 mins from turning on the power. Like most high-end consumer devices these days it plays a jaunty tune as well ;-)

Design is good - you can access the tank from the top to refill, the work light illuminates the gauge so you can see how much water is left, there is space under the drip tray for tools etc. The only slight concern is that the steam wand wobbles a bit when you are cleaning it - this may be by design though.. its hard to tell.

I will find my old 58mm naked portafilter and give it a try - its in storage so don't expect it too quickly.

I've now moved onto HasBean El Salvador Finca La Fany Washed Bourbon which is just lovely..

Any questions then drop me a line


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## thewanted (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks very much for the detailed post Toby. It certainly sounds like our use cases match!

All I'm really after is an easy to make, great tasting flat white and it certainly sounds like the Oracle Touch can deliver that. My girlfriend wants nice cups of coffee made with almond or oat milk, but has zero desire to learn anything about the coffee brewing process. We're certainly going to pay the price for being lazy!









I'm really surprised and pleased to hear that it only takes ~4 minutes to heat up. When I first started researching machines, people said that ideally you need to turn on an espresso machine about 30 minutes before you want to pull your first shot which is far too long for most of us.

I'm going to endeavour to get to John Lewis in Oxford Street next week Wednesday to have a demo of the machine. Sage's Facebook page said that they can make coffee with it on-site which is great because I am finding it difficult to part with this much money without testing it first.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

If you can get to Essex then feel free to drop in..


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## thewanted (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks for the kind offer! If John Lewis let me down, I'll certainly consider it


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm end of the Central line if that helps..


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## thewanted (Dec 19, 2017)

TobyAnscombe said:


> I'm end of the Central line if that helps..


I think we're on polar opposite ends of the M25


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Interesting thread, thanks for the detail. Finding myself drawn to an Oracle (non-touch) so these threads are very helpful


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

@TobyAnscombe any updates on oracle ownership?


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Sorry, I appear to have logged myself out and then missed all the notifications.

So, almost a year of ownership and its been flawless. No duff shots, free water filters sent by Sage, really nothing to complain about.

The only niggle I have is that when you run out of beans mid-grind, there is no auto shut off. Thats probably the only bad thing that I can say about the machine. Yes, its not cheap but the wife-acceptance-factor has now kicked in. She will make a coffee every morning, hell, even my kids (7 and 6) can make me a coffee and not get it wrong (pouring the milk however..)

Yes, I could have saved some money but it fits perfectly into our kitchen and I really wouldn't change it.


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