# Pre-ground espresso - useless?



## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

I've been struggling to get a drinkable shot from my Barista Express and am close to giving up. More on this later, I'll probably make a thread on my experiences later..

But as a last resort I got some Union pre-ground espresso Revelation blend to at least try and make a shot with coffee that I assumed would be at least ground at the right coarseness/fineness for espresso, just to try and control at least one variable (because I think my grinder might be faulty or I just can't figure out the right grind size)

Well, a disaster and I think I just wasted £4. I struggle to believe anybody can make an espresso with this coffee, it is waayyyy too coarse, and my espresso came out gushing in about 5 seconds. Am I missing something? I realise I haven't elaborated on my technique or my tamping but I've tried every possible tamping method, i.e. going very soft, soft, firm, very firm, adjusted the amount of coffee I use and I just have no clue how this is considered fine enough ground to make an espresso.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pre ground is mainly used with pressurised baskets . With normal baskets it's not gonna be amazing.

And it's probably stale.


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## JimBean1 (Apr 11, 2016)

Try to take a quick video of your whole process and I'm sure we'll very quickly spot any problems.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Your Barista Express is capable of producing decent espresso using the in-built grinder. The grinder isn't great but functional. Pre-ground espresso is always going to be potentially problematic as you have no control over the grind. Go back to freshly roasted and stick with the same beans until you've got a handle on grind level, tamp pressure and other variables.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Yeah I think I'll have to film my process and post the video, even when I manage to get a good ratio in a decent time, I still taste sour shots. And what tends to happen is my shot starts off slow, then speeds up towards the end... So even though I may get say, a total time of 35 seconds, the second half of that time is probably under-extracting because it's all gushing through... What's the main cause of uneven flow rate like this?


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## JimBean1 (Apr 11, 2016)

YerbaMate170 said:


> Yeah I think I'll have to film my process and post the video, even when I manage to get a good ratio in a decent time, I still taste sour shots. And what tends to happen is my shot starts off slow, then speeds up towards the end... So even though I may get say, a total time of 35 seconds, the second half of that time is probably under-extracting because it's all gushing through... What's the main cause of uneven flow rate like this?


I'd say channeling but I'm no expert. I expect there's a combination of small issues at play that can all be sorted quite quickly if we can watch it. Are you using the non pressurised basket and which size?


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

JimBean1 said:


> I'd say channeling but I'm no expert. I expect there's a combination of small issues at play that can all be sorted quite quickly if we can watch it. Are you using the non pressurised basket and which size?


Non-pressurised double, but it's a 54mm - I assume this means I need to use less coffee than would be standard? I've read around 18g-20g but that's I assume for a 58mm, should I use less? I'll read up on channeling but that does indeed sound like the issue I'm experiencing.


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## JimBean1 (Apr 11, 2016)

YerbaMate170 said:


> Non-pressurised double, but it's a 54mm - I assume this means I need to use less coffee than would be standard? I've read around 18g-20g but that's I assume for a 58mm, should I use less? I'll read up on channeling but that does indeed sound like the issue I'm experiencing.


Mine is 54mm too. I grind 20g of beans and basically overfill the basket then tamp pretty hard so it packs down to about 3 or 4mm below the top of the basket. Then I aim to extract about 32g in 30 seconds (ish). My good shots will start as a fast drip before turning into a slow steady stream. I get my beans from Redber and usually start to use them within a week of roasting.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Shots aren't always the same flow rate from start to finish. It isn't abnormal for a shot to speed up and change colour . Is there a recommended dose for the basket ?


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

JimBean1 said:


> Mine is 54mm too. I grind 20g of beans and basically overfill the basket then tamp pretty hard so it packs down to about 3 or 4mm below the top of the basket. Then I aim to extract about 32g in 30 seconds (ish). My good shots will start as a fast drip before turning into a slow steady stream. I get my beans from Redber and usually start to use them within a week of roasting.


I was actually doing similar for a while, 20g and tamping pretty hard... I think I'm going to focus a lot on distribution and see if that helps, it's probably the one factor I've not given enough attention to. Also seems impossible to find distribution tools for 54mm so I'll try a manual approach.


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## JimBean1 (Apr 11, 2016)

Yep I just smooth grounds with my finger before tamping. Make sure grounds fill all spaces.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

YerbaMate170 said:


> I was actually doing similar for a while, 20g and tamping pretty hard... I think I'm going to focus a lot on distribution and see if that helps, it's probably the one factor I've not given enough attention to. Also seems impossible to find distribution tools for 54mm so I'll try a manual approach.


Apart from the grooming tool that comes with the machine that is? What is the weight of the dose in the basket after tamping & using the Razor? Use this as a basis for determining you starting point for the dose.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Apart from the grooming tool that comes with the machine that is? What is the weight of the dose in the basket after tamping & using the Razor? Use this as a basis for determining you starting point for the dose.


Admittedly I haven't been using the Razor tool, but it could definitely help in determining if I'm getting the right dose for the basket and as you say it's a good idea to weigh after trimming. Will give this a go.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

YerbaMate170 said:


> I'll try a manual approach.


https://baristahustle.com/blogs/barista-hustle/how-to-distribute-by-tapping

This is the only technique you'll need. Promise.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

For my set up I find it highly beneficial to give the grounds a good stir in the basket to even the distribution, then tap to even the bed. All depends on how well your grinder has distributed the grounds in the first place. I also have a funnel to stop coffee going everywhere when I stir.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)




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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If nothing else that clip shows you why you dont measure on volume or time , the shots are vastly different in size ( even though the guy says "they are similar volumes ) . Plus he used 2 g less in the middle one shot errrrrr, yeah the pre ground choked the machine , man needs to work on his technique ...But its gonna taste different no matter what 2g less coffee somewhat more volume..

Anyway , pre ground = pants .....don't need a clip to demonstrate that.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks all, really useful contributions, I'm going to experiment some more and focus on distribution - to be clear, I am well aware of how bad pre-ground is in terms of freshness, I was just shocked at the coarseness of the grind as I just don't see how this is an espresso grind.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

YerbaMate170 said:


> Thanks all, really useful contributions, I'm going to experiment some more and focus on distribution - to be clear, I am well aware of how bad pre-ground is in terms of freshness, I was just shocked at the coarseness of the grind as I just don't see how this is an espresso grind.


Yeah it's for a pressurised basket .....good luck with the espresso and if you need any help , plenty here will try .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> plenty here will try .


But boots you are not 50 yet!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> But boots you are not 50 yet!


You've lost me ...


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