# Fracino Piccino PID prototype BB



## Mocochoco (Dec 26, 2016)

Hi,

I've been saving up to buy a new machine and noticed this on BB.

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/special-offers/fracino-piccino.html

Does this seem like a good price for the machine? Seems a bit expensive considering the cosmetic damage, the fact it's used and by the sounds of it has some other general imperfections due to its prototype nature.

I originally had been keen on a lelit mara pl62 and had planned for this.

How do you think the two compare? Should I hold out or is this worth a shot?

Would negotiating on price be an option as I would want the grinder as well.

Thanks in advance


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Think @DavecUK may have reviewed that exact machine for BB.

Laissez les bons temps rouler


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

HX with PID is pointless setup in general, HX for home is related with wasting water for flushing on the other hand the price of this unit is good


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Your looking at dual boiler in the case of the Piccino and from what I can see HX on the Lelit. Reading @DavecUK review on it







I wonder if he likes Piccino's full stop. I did get decent coffee out of mine without PID or any indication that the brew boiler heating was on. Taste did differ to other machines I have used. That in some ways is bad but further changes such as weight of grinds may well sort that out. Lacking hot water is a a problem for me. HX machines often have it but from what I can see usually via a dip tube into the boiler which is at steam temperature - bit hot for americano maybe.

From the review it looks like it's the full auto version with a flow meter so more of a price reduction than you might think. I think Dave sees that as price increase the machine could do without. On the other hand they do help obtain constant shot weight outputs. Good and bad depending on how well they work. Good while say grinds and weight in the basket are what they need to be but bad if those are way out and the machine still produces the same sized shot.

Big downside on all of their home type machines in my view is mug height. It's pretty low and traditional. A bottomless portafilter fixes that but say some one want to pull 2 larger drinks at the same time with a triple or larger basket fitted.

As he mentions descaling is a bit problematic. There are things that could be removed to allow the steam boiler to be filled manually with descaling solution and then syphoned out. The brew boiler could only really be done by filling it via the water tank but it would probably be better to remove it and descale off the machine. Descaling can be a bit of a problem on a number of machines.

I'd be interested in just what Dave feels about the choice of machines you have mentioned. I hoped to modify mine to get either steam or hot water as steam doesn't see much use in my case. Also fit it with better electronic control of the brew boiler temperature and timed shots. They don't leave much room in them for modifications.

John

-


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

L&R said:


> HX with PID is pointless setup in general, HX for home is related with wasting water for flushing on the other hand the price of this unit is good


This is a dual boiler though. 

Laissez les bons temps rouler


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Wow my bad sorry...the offer is good for DB machine


----------



## Mocochoco (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks so much for all your input. Didn't realise someone from here tested it. I'd be very interested to see what DavecUk thinks.

Hot water tap doesn't bother me. Flat whites are the drink of choice in my household so it will mainly be used for those. Mug height has never been an issue on my gaggia classic so I assume it will be fine on the Piccino.

The descaling issue is something I have read about and definitely annoying . I probably wouldn't let it stop me from buying the machine but it's definitely something I should consider when making a decision.


----------



## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

I looked at fitting a PID to a Piccino a while back and discussed it on with a chap on the forum that maintains espresso machines for a living, he had fitted a PID to his own Piccino and concluded that the boiler was too small to make it worthwhile.

His explanation was, as you hit brew button the pump immediately starts pulling cold water from the tank to the coffee boiler. No matter what you do, a PID won't help with drastic temperature drop during extraction (10-15 degree drop!), your shots will almost always be under extracted, even if you put set temperature near to boiling point.

He was planning a further mod with preheat coil around steam boiler to pre warm the water before it went to boiler, however it's quite a time consuming mod and probably makes buying a different machine an appealing route.

There are some great HX machines for similar money, I had a simonelli oscar Mk2 which in my opinion with the OPV mod was a way better machine to use than the Piccino.

Good luck whatever you choose to buy.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

That chap would do well to stick to maintaining espresso machines. Eventually he might learn enough to understand them better.


----------



## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> That chap would do well to stick to maintaining espresso machines. Eventually he might learn enough to understand them better.


 @DavecUK If you have the time and inclination would you mind explaining what the chap got wrong please, it will be helpful to understand as a non expert because I was convinced by the explanation? @kyoczek do you still have the Piccino, what are your thoughts on this please?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GerryM said:


> @DavecUK If you have the time and inclination would you mind explaining what the chap got wrong please, it will be helpful to understand as a non expert because I was convinced by the explanation? @kyoczek do you still have the Piccino, what are your thoughts on this please?


I don't but when he has designed or helped design a few machines as well as properly test those designs, he might well know more and be able to advise you better.


----------



## Mocochoco (Dec 26, 2016)

Thanks for everyone's input.

I guess taking all this into account I will hold out a little longer for the Lelit. I've been saving too long to risk it all on a bit of an unknown.

Thanks again


----------



## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> I don't but when he has designed or helped design a few machines as well as properly test those designs, he might well know more and be able to advise you better.


Thank you, fingers crossed he gets the experience you suggest asap and I can become enlightened about the the PID and Piccino combination.

Until such a time I will take comfort from Socrates words, "The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing", although, i'm now wondering if like me, he was consoling himself until the mysteries of the espresso machine could be revealed by a newly trained wizard.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GerryM said:


> Thank you, fingers crossed he gets the experience you suggest asap and I can become enlightened about the the PID and Piccino combination.
> 
> Until such a time I will take comfort from Socrates words, "The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing", although, i'm now wondering if like me, he was consoling himself until the mysteries of the espresso machine could be revealed by a newly trained wizard.


Just read what's in the internal review I did, it's all correct, what it says are facts based around a projected selling price of £1200 or £1300, can't remember exactly.....then make your choice.


----------



## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Just read what's in the internal review I did, it's all correct, what it says are facts based around a projected selling price of £1200 or £1300, can't remember exactly.....then make your choice.


Thanks Dave


----------

