# Ex La Pav owners, why move on?



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

I am early in my La Pav journey, 
I haven't had it long enough yet to pi55 me off.

But, it has been so good that it has made me ditch the Sage, in particular because the milk steaming was superior.

So those that have moved on why was that?

Currently I can't see any downside of a machine which is good to go in minutes. Apart from maybe temp stability that can relatively easily be checked with a group thermometer and a bit of experimentation.

I can see the appeal of something like a dual boiler. But I am not sure how something like a lelit would make a better shot?

It is the shot volume/ratio? Do you miss something in not being able to get past about 1:3?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Greater consistency for one, but assuming you achieve that consistency through heat up time and operation....

Better temperature stability throughout the shot, and the larger commercial size baskets allows a shallower puck at the same dose so you can grind finer, push extraction up, and get better shots. The only thing I missed about the Pavoni was the ability to pressure profile but I've got the bianca paddle now so I can extend pre-infusion, slow the ramp up, stop the flow entirely, and control flow rate through the shot.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

My journey was the opposite. I had a Profitec 700 (dual boiler, E61) and found it too big, took too long to get up to temp. For 1 coffee a day before a long day at the office, it was too much. So I bought a La Pav, and could not be happier. But now with this Covid-19 nonsense and god knows when I'll be in the office again, I find myself spending more time at home and use the machine more. I also would like something where I can turn on, wait 20 minutes or 60 minutes, and find the machine idling at a stable temperature. Ability to set that target temperature accurate, combine with the temperature stability and fast heat up, is key on a new machine.

As you know, I'm now thinking of moving on from the Pavoni after 2 years. I still have doubts whether I should do this. Will I get better quality in the cup at a comparable cost/benefit ratio? I don't think so. Will I regret moving on from the Pavoni in 2 years time? Maybe. The other aspect is upgraditus, of course. It's always nice to have something new and different...

Edit: for the record, I'm an owner, not an ex-owner, but upgratitus is knocking at my door. And it was my 40th not long ago.  - I'm entitled to a new toy!


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My journey was the opposite. I had a Profitec 700 (dual boiler, E61) and found it too big, took too long to get up to temp. For 1 coffee a day before a long day at the office, it was too much.


 I feel personally attacked...


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Greater consistency for one, but assuming you achieve that consistency through heat up time and operation....
> 
> Better temperature stability throughout the shot, and the larger commercial size baskets allows a shallower puck at the same dose so you can grind finer, push extraction up, and get better shots. The only thing I missed about the Pavoni was the ability to pressure profile but I've got the bianca paddle now so I can extend pre-infusion, slow the ramp up, stop the flow entirely, and control flow rate through the shot.


 All good points, I agree that temp stability is an issue, particularly with multiple drinks. It's hard to have to indirectly measure it and infer a temperature at the coffee.

However, so far I've found I can at least get it close to where it needs to be, with a group temp of 82 I'm at about 90 in the coffee and 85 around 93-94.

The shallower basket is interesting. I guess I'm used to the 54 sage, so not a massively large basket. I always found with my gaggia I got too much channeling. I guess grinding finer needs a grinder which can keep up. I'm not sure I could taste any of that in the cup though. I'm not really an espresso drinker though.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

lhavelund said:


> I feel personally attacked...


Sorry.  - there's a La Pav in the for sale section if you want one. 

Edit: jokes aside: which machine have you?


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Vesuvius en-route!


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> My journey was the opposite. I had a Profitec 700 (dual boiler, E61) and found it too big, took too long to get up to temp. For 1 coffee a day before a long day at the office, it was too much. So I bought a La Pav, and could not be happier. But now with this Covid-19 nonsense and god knows when I'll be in the office again, I find myself spending more time at home and use the machine more. I also would like something where I can turn on, wait 20 minutes or 60 minutes, and find the machine idling at a stable temperature. Ability to set that target temperature accurate, combine with the temperature stability and fast heat up, is key on a new machine.
> As you know, I'm now thinking of moving on from the Pavoni after 2 years. I still have doubts whether I should do this. Will I get better quality in the cup at a comparable cost/benefit ratio? I don't think so. Will I regret moving on from the Pavoni in 2 years time? Maybe. The other aspect is upgraditus, of course. It's always nice to have something new and different...
> 
> Edit: for the record, I'm an owner, not an ex-owner, but upgratitus is knocking at my door. And it was my 40th not long ago.  - I'm entitled to a new toy!


Did wonder why you were selling. Makes sense, I too am now in and out the office so have had to work around a heavier demand on the europiccola, on days where I'm mostly at home I use a WiFi plug switch it on via my phone and 10-15 mins later go and make one. It still has the refilling issue but for me it's enough as the wife is a tea drinker. I'd quite like a cremina just because I want one! I see so many people try and justify buying things and my message to them is buy whatever you bloody well want! I may also be tempted to change by the LC should that see the light of day.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

KTD said:


> Did wonder why you were selling. Makes sense, I too am now in and out the office so have had to work around a heavier demand on the europiccola, on days where I'm mostly at home I use a WiFi plug switch it on via my phone and 10-15 mins later go and make one. It still has the refilling issue but for me it's enough as the wife is a tea drinker. I'd quite like a cremina just because I want one! I see so many people try and justify buying things and my message to them is buy whatever you bloody well want! I may also be tempted to change by the LC should that see the light of day.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I had this machine for two years, it serves me well. I would keep serving me well for a long time if I keep it. But I just fancy something new. Part of me thinks of just keeping the Pavoni, store it away and one day bring it back. Anyway, let's see what happens. Upgraditus is a funny thing.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I had this machine for two years, it serves me well. I would keep serving me well for a long time if I keep it. But I just fancy something new. Part of me thinks of just keeping the Pavoni, store it away and one day bring it back. Anyway, let's see what happens. Upgraditus is a funny thing.


 What are you upgrading to?

If you do sell the Pavoni at least there are plenty out there if you decide to buy one again.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Nopapercup said:


> What are you upgrading to?
> If you do sell the Pavoni at least there are plenty out there if you decide to buy one again.


Lelit Elizabeth.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Get rid? Nope. Still got mine and it gets used.


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

Rhys said:


> Get rid? Nope. Still got mine and it gets used.


The idea of having a La Pav appeals to me, but I suspect I'll all too often just take the easy way out and use my bigger machine. I can't be bothered to faff with managing too many variables every time, so no question I'll keep a more 'advanced' machine around (maybe a nice spring lever some day)...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## IamOiman (Nov 13, 2018)

I use my Pavoni occasionally still when I turn off my Bosco in the morning and I have to physically be at work, partially out of its significance as my first espresso machine. It can always pull a nice shot with an emphasis on body for the output and I time it such that I never allow the machine to heat beyond eleven minutes before it gets too hot even as a larger Professional. I pulled over 1k shots with the Pavoni in college and I would gladly part with many of my other machines before being forced to say goodbye to it because of that. With the Faemina running now I placed the Pavoni back as a display piece for now next to the Elektra as I try out the Faemina.

My preferred ratio for most espresso is 1:2 give or take besides the Faemina, which really does well with ristrettos (1:1 to 1:5).


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Rhys said:


> Get rid? Nope. Still got mine and it gets used.


 Same along with Ves, Elizabeth, etc


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

A la pavoni with all the mods takes some beating, especially at the price point. IMHO a PPk and heatvsink are a must


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## OliG (Jul 14, 2015)

I do love my La Pav. Bought it from Coffeechap just before christmas to replace my Gaggia Classic and recently fitted PPK.

I only make 1 drink in the morning and maybe 2 in the afternoon so temperature stability isnt really an issue for me.

I keep looking at the Lelit Mara, but I'm not sure I'd get much more in the cup. And the La Pav does look awesome in the kitchen.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

KTD said:


> I see so many people try and justify buying things and my message to them is buy whatever you bloody well want!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yes. Totally agree. I'm looking for that justification, but my tax return and recent wheelings and dealings have certainly earned me the right to buy that new Cremina. Fuck it. I'll tell the wife it only cost me $1000 though. Or I'll have to buy her a new kitchen to put it in.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I wanted a new kitchen so I could Have space for a new coffee machine. Cut my loses, bought a kitchen trolley and a coffee machine. 😂


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