# One spout or two



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ignoring you saddos who only use a bottomless, do you go for a single spout or a twin spout? The only purpose a twin has in my humble, is if you are splitting the shot. I am sure many will not agree but thats life!


----------



## Bogwoppit (Sep 26, 2013)

I use a bottomless when I'm feeling brave and my techniques needs to be tighter (I find red hot coffee sprites all over the kitchen focus the mind and technique rather quickly!), but otherwise a single spout.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

a bottomless is designed to help you tune your shot, so you are doing the right thing. The single spout still tells you a lot though. If you watch the flow it should be even. If it speeds up/slows down then distribution needs attention


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Personally, double spout. Single spout just looks weird, especially the one in the picture above.

In the restaurant I used to work at, I was strictly told that the double spout is for two separate cups and single spout is for one cup. I tried to explain the difference between basket sizes, but ended up looking like an idiot, so asked who told my colleague that. Apparently, that's what the person who installed the coffee machine. Actually, auto-volumetric buttons corresponded to different set pressures, too.

From that day, I just never talked about coffee at work! I knew it wasn't my business, especially when people were happy with Italian roast, the tamper on the Super Jolly (like this) and poor technique overall.


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Go naked or go home....


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Go naked or go home....


Froggy, explain the attraction of naked. I no longer own one having given it to my son I think. Sure, as a work of art they can be interesting to watch the shot build and pour, especially if you photo it, but come one......wheres my anorak!


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Always naked .... They don't change the temp of the shot as the coffee doesn't come in contact with them, so you can leave them off the machine, or wash them without losing thermal stability

cleaner .... No oils left in the spout

can fit more under them in the way of scales, big cups etc


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

As h1udd says easy to warm, clean, i can get the scales and cup under no problem and whip it out easy.

Plus it looks cooler, no more reasons needed.

And if you are worried about wearing an anorak, then your in the wrong game.


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I like my naked. Also have a one and two spout.

Use the naked when I change beans which is every week, then the single spout once dialled in, to pour an espresso in a dedicated cup.

Then use the two spout if my better half wants to share an Americano.

All have their merits, even the naked.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

To me the big plus of using a bottomless is far less metal to heat up.

The Sage boiler heats in a couple of minutes, the group head heating element is not far behind, so it's only the pf delaying the process. Other than getting pretty mouse tails, and being able to split a shot (which I never do) I can't actually see a reason for using a spouted pf.


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

NickdeBug said:


> To me the big plus of using a bottomless is far less metal to heat up.
> 
> The Sage boiler heats in a couple of minutes, the group head heating element is not far behind, so it's only the pf delaying the process. Other than getting pretty mouse tails, and being able to split a shot (which I never do) I can't actually see a reason for using a spouted pf.


I find all the little spots of coffee on the espresso cup spoils it for me.

Single spout into cup makes a nicer looking cup (for me) but that's just my OCD


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Jason1wood said:


> I find all the *little spots of coffee *on the espresso cup spoils it for me.
> 
> Single spout into cup makes a nicer looking cup (for me) *but that's just my OCD*


nope - that's your distribution


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Tbh, I don't do any distribution straight out the Mythos.

Grind and tamp. Maybe worth looking into


----------



## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

I hate the way - at least when I'm using them - that spouted PFs seem to dribble across the machine and worktop when I'm trying to clean out the basket. What's the reason not to use a bottomless?


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

jlarkin said:


> I hate the way - at least when I'm using them - that spouted PFs seem to dribble across the machine and worktop when I'm trying to clean out the basket. What's the reason not to use a bottomless?


Defo agree with that


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

I think that is supposed to be one of the joys of the Mythos - fluffy mound of coffee that settles with a little jiggle.

Since Gary got me pouring longer shots at lower pressure (600kPa) I just get a really controlled pour then never splatters. Seems to run out at a consistent rate as well - no speeding up halfway through shot causing splashback.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Jason1wood said:


> Defo agree with that


Me too!


----------



## christos_geo (Feb 9, 2016)

Always naked for me too.

Rarely seem to get spritzing once dialed in. With double spout I find it takes too long to heat up in between shots as I would rinse under tap, also it traps water in the spout due to vacuum and can't get both scales and cup underneath.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> I hate the way - at least when I'm using them - that spouted PFs seem to dribble across the machine and worktop when I'm trying to clean out the basket. What's the reason not to use a bottomless?


Defo agree with this and have contemplated getting a naked just to eliminate that from happening.

I have the standard double spout that comes as standard fitted to classic portafilter.

Is there any merit in removing it and having NO spout?

Just the hole.

The spout seems tightened on very well, and ive heard of people removing them and then not being able to get the back on in the same alignment so am a little apprehensive to do it.


----------



## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Agree with all that's been said in favour of a 'naked'

Just this week I have been setting a double spout against a naked:









Using the same -

20g VST Basket

Rave Italian Job roasted from the same batch & roast date

Same level of tamp

Same temperature

Same pressure profile

The 'naked' wins with cleaner & more delicate flavours.

Extracting into a glass double lipped jug giving a solid stream out with no 'spritzers' up the side of the jug or anywhere.

Perfect the technique & appreaciate & enjoy the difference.

I can tell you it's very noticable



> *Ignoring you saddos who only use a bottomless*


Its sadder for those who do not trouble to learn the benefits of a 'naked'


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Rocket came with a double and single spouted PF, never used the single, not once, have only used the double a couple of times when splitting shots, but then its ball ache getting the scales under it.


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Verona came with a double and single spout P/F, I bored one of them out to make naked but maintain handle pattern (not otherwise available). Only ever use the naked unless splitting shots for visitors.No contamination / oil residue in bottom of P/F easier to just press out basket with thumb.

Definitely a naked man


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ronsil said:


> Agree with all that's been said in favour of a 'naked'
> 
> Just this week I have been setting a double spout against a naked:
> 
> ...


So why do the vast majority of cafes and professional outlets not bother with naked then, if us amateurs think they are the bees knees?


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> So why do the vast majority of cafes and professional outlets not bother with naked then, if us amateurs think they are the bees knees?


Most shots are split in cafes though?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Whats all this about contamination of spouts with oils? Anyone from Yorkshire want to comment on the fact they never wash their Yorkshire pudding tins out. people seem to think that they have to wash their equipment between shots.....yeah right......just like all those professional baristas do....I think some people have too much time on their hands and over active minds!


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Most shots are split in cafes though?


So what, whop the naked on since it does not need heat up time, runs 10 mms of water through.......


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Whats all this about contamination of spouts with oils? Anyone from Yorkshire want to comment on the fact they never wash their Yorkshire pudding tins out. people seem to think that they have to wash their equipment between shots.....yeah right......just like all those professional baristas do....I think some people have too much time on their hands and over active minds!


Are you talking about yourself again ?









Who mentioned after every shot, I was inferring that it is more difficult to clean a P/F with spouts unless you dunk it in Pulycaff or similar (longer term of course)


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Whats all this about contamination of spouts with oils? Anyone from Yorkshire want to comment on the fact they never wash their Yorkshire pudding tins out. people seem to think that they have to wash their equipment between shots.....yeah right......just like all those professional baristas do....I think some people have too much time on their hands and over active minds!


You want me to comment? I washed mine the other week, the dog licked one. Total disaster. Now required to eat more skanky fray bentos pies to acquire more tins. Hubby is oddly pleased about this.


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Whats all this about contamination of spouts with oils? Anyone from Yorkshire want to comment on the fact they never wash their Yorkshire pudding tins out. people seem to think that they have to wash their equipment between shots.....yeah right......just like all those professional baristas do....I think some people have too much time on their hands and over active minds!


Your yorkies must taste as bad as your coffee then!


----------



## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

It's much easier to use a dosered grinder with a bottomless, the forks don't get in the way, and its lighter for my weak lady wrists


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> people seem to think that they have to wash their equipment between shots.....yeah right......just like all those professional baristas do....I think some people have too much time on there hands


the coffee shops I drink in use naked PFs ... Stop drinking in commodity coffee shops

I dont have too much time on my hands, I pour naked so I don't need to clean

I also use a clean cup between shots as well. Do you get a clean cup oop north or do the baristas re use dirty cups ?


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

h1udd said:


> the coffee shops I drink in use naked PFs ... Stop drinking in commodity coffee shops
> 
> I dont have too much time on my hands, I pour naked so I don't need to clean
> 
> I also use a clean cup between shots as well. Do you get a clean cup oop north or do the baristas re use dirty cups ?


I once got someone else's lippy on my cup in the same place with the cafetiere of instant. Different world up here. We are all inbred so sharing bodily fluids isn't a big deal.


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Missy said:


> sharing bodily fluids isn't a big deal.


perhaps I should move ??? That kind of intamacy you have to pay for here


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

h1udd said:


> perhaps I should move ??? That kind of intamacy you have to pay for here


Depends if you enjoy chatting with random strangers, eye contact and everything.


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Ah .... That would be no then .... Not really that fond if talking to my family, strangers would be too much


----------



## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> So why do the vast majority of cafes and professional outlets not bother with naked then, if us amateurs think they are the bees knees?


Because its another thing to have to learn for staff.

The difference would not be noticed by the general public.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

good thread this. there is no right or wrong. if you are lucky enough to have a palate that can discern between a shot pulled a naked and a spout, then good luck to you. I am not saying no cafes use naked. Does the WBC use them and if not, why not if they are so superior?


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Avenue is using naked PFs, weighs the PF and now also trying out the borrowed PUSH tamper.

So... Not all hope is lost


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

perhaps I should go back to one, now that I am drinking black coffee.....no use being a bigot if you are not prepared to try things....if that makes sense!


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I'm beginning to think it's time I at least tried one...


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I take turns... Sometimes I use the double (When there are visitors and they want to split a double), sometimes the single (when I only make a coffee for me) and sometimes the naked (as a learning tool).... 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

My Pavoni has a single spout, and I'm quite happy with that. I would like a naked but I'm not butchering my only portafilter for the benefit. I use the pour as a guide to my pull.

The Gaggia on the other hand has both twin and naked, and I preferred the naked tbh.


----------

