# About to buy Rocket R58... Questions...



## BlueHole222 (Feb 2, 2015)

Hello People,

I want a dual boiler machine with PID to go along with my Eureka Zenith 65E grinder.

My current machine is a Silvia - which served me well but I want to go to the next level.

I have a few questions about the Rocket and would appreciate feedback from owners and knowledgable people:

1. The detachable PID - I like the looks of the machine (the Mrs won't let me put something ugly in the kitchen) and like the idea of a detachable PID -= but saw many people online saying it misses the point of a PID and just adds clutter - what do you guys think?

2. I understand the r58 makes a loud noise when starting up? Is this the case with V2?

3. How long does it take it to heat up - especially in the morning, when rushing out - Ideally I'd love a decent cappuccino after 10 minutes warm up?

4. Lastly, limescale - is there an elegant solution to filter those? I won't be plumbing my machine but rather use a jug to fill it with water from the sink - we have a water filter but it doesn't remove limescale completely? Maybe another Jug/Brita filtering? I understand Rocket suggest people won't use a limescale remover?

Thanks!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

the pid works well, the only issue is if you unplug it, or knock it by accident when powered up it throws a wobbly, how many wobblys before it gives up is a good question i don't have the answer for.

It does seem a little loud for a minute or two when powering up in the morning, nothing major though for me.

Forget 10 minutes, i give mine at least 20, 30 ideally.

Buy bottled water, it costs about £1 for a 5 litre bottle from Tesco, no brainer!

I love my rocket, i really do, it does everything i want and looks great, as you would expect for a machine that costs over £1500, is there better on the market, that is down to you to read up and see what other machines are out there.

Visit Bela Barista and have a play with all the machines you can, the rocket might not be right for you, best to find out in the showroom rather than after you have shelled out your dosh, i went with every intention of buying an alex duetto, but the rocket stood out for me.


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

1. I quite like the detachable PID. If you're not changing the temp much (which I don't) then it can go in a cupboard. You could even hide it under the machine. Doesn't cause me a problem, but I can see why people don't like it. Personal choice, as with any of these machines. You're payin

2. It's never woken me up, and I sleep light. It's noisy, but not for long.

3. Timer plugs are relatively cheap and work fine. I've had the odd time when the boiler's been hot but the group head hasn't, and running some water through it does the trick.

4. Not 100% sure here. I use Tesco's Ashbeck, and am just starting to think about getting round to a first descale (6 months in). I wasn't aware that it was frowned on tbh.

HTH

Anton



BlueHole222 said:


> 1. The detachable PID - I like the looks of the machine (the Mrs won't let me put something ugly in the kitchen) and like the idea of a detachable PID -= but saw many people online saying it misses the point of a PID and just adds clutter - what do you guys think?
> 
> 2. I understand the r58 makes a loud noise when starting up? Is this the case with V2?
> 
> ...


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> Visit Bela Barista and have a play with all the machines you can, the rocket might not be right for you, best to find out in the showroom rather than after you have shelled out your dosh,


This. Arrange an appointment, tell them what you want to look at, then go and have a play. It's a lot of money to spend, get it right. I doubt you'd be disappointed by the Rocket, but don't leave it to chance.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Here is my PID in its home, causes me no hassle.










In all its glory....


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

I want a dual boiler machine with PID to go along with my Eureka Zenith 65E grinder.

Got the R58 & a 65e - a great match for each other!

My current machine is a Silvia - which served me well but I want to go to the next level

I have a few questions about the Rocket and would appreciate feedback from owners and knowledgable people:

1. The detachable PID - I like the looks of the machine (the Mrs won't let me put something ugly in the kitchen) and like the idea of a detachable PID -= but saw many people online saying it misses the point of a PID and just adds clutter - what do you guys think?

I always keep the PID plugged in and it fits beautifully out of the way under the machine, good to see the boiler temp, and the blue display will match you 65e nicely! I really don't like machines that look like someones just cut a hole in the front & clipped a plastic unit into it! Also if the display goes or malfunctions a new unit is only about £40 & just plug it in & your good to go!

And there in no way an R58 will do anything other than make your kitchen look fantastic!!! The design of the R58 really works & obviously had a lot of thought put into it, Also the depth at only 44cm is very 'kitchen counter' friendly, a lot of machines in its class are a lot deeper, I'd love to see what an L1 would be like but the depth rules it out









2. I understand the r58 makes a loud noise when starting up? Is this the case with V2?

I've had 2 V2's and the later model is definetly quieter than the first which is a shame as I really like the start up whooshes & crackles, gives the machine a personality of its own!!!

3. How long does it take it to heat up - especially in the morning, when rushing out - Ideally I'd love a decent cappuccino after 10 minutes warm up?

No way after just 10 min! 20-30 though & your fine









4. Lastly, limescale - is there an elegant solution to filter those? I won't be plumbing my machine but rather use a jug to fill it with water from the sink - we have a water filter but it doesn't remove limescale completely? Maybe another Jug/Brita filtering? I understand Rocket suggest people won't use a limescale remover?

Brita Jug here also & I'm in a very hard water area!

Thanks!

My pleasure!

* Drip trays not the largest but empty often & its not an issue!

Got MUCH better shots when I started using a 'IMS' screen & basket,


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## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

BlueHole222 said:


> Hello People,
> 
> I have a few questions about the Rocket and would appreciate feedback from owners and knowledgable people:
> 
> 1. The detachable PID - I like the looks of the machine (the Mrs won't let me put something ugly in the kitchen) and like the idea of a detachable PID -= but saw many people online saying it misses the point of a PID and just adds clutter - what do you guys think?


That really depends on how you intent to use it, if your mostly sticking to one blend/ so , it dosen't really matter if you need to plug the display in.

But if your like to change coffee regularly and sometimes using two different beans, then I'll bet that you'll get tired of very quickly, but then you could let it be plugged in all the time, although that kind off removes the whole point.

All of them are square polished metal boxes, not much of a differences between them











> 2. I understand the r58 makes a loud noise when starting up? Is this the case with V2?


It's not the only one, some Verona/V2B owners has expressed that as well, but it's more a annoyance then a problem, from what I have heard from V2 owners it's not fixed.



> 3. How long does it take it to heat up - especially in the morning, when rushing out - Ideally I'd love a decent cappuccino after 10 minutes warm up?


Expect 30-45 minuts for it to warm up, but like any other machines in this category the longer you let it warm up the better, I usually let mine warm up 1-1,5 hour before use!



> 4. Lastly, limescale - is there an elegant solution to filter those? I won't be plumbing my machine but rather use a jug to fill it with water from the sink - we have a water filter but it doesn't remove limescale completely? Maybe another Jug/Brita filtering? I understand Rocket suggest people won't use a limescale remover?
> 
> Thanks!


If you can not plug it in, use bottled water, Volvic is a decent choice, but I'm sure you can find some that are cheeper and equally good, I'm sure other will chime in on that.

there has been some horrific stories circulating around Brita jugs, some have experienced their water to turn aggressive and those corrode their Machine, But these incidens could be due to user errors. But personally I would stir away from it and use bottled water instead, this way you know this won't corrode your machine.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Here's a photo of mine with the display under the machine.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

malling said:


> If you can not plug it in, use bottled wates not fixed.
> 
> r, Volvic is a decent choice, but I'm sure you can find some that are cheeper and equally good, I'm sure other will chime in on that.
> 
> there has been some horrific stories circulating around Brita jugs, some have experienced their water to turn aggressive and those corrode their Machine, But these incidens could be due to user errors. But personally I would stir away from it and use bottled water instead, this way you know this won't corrode your machine.


Thankyou!









Not heard that before but did a quick 'google' & just read about it!

http://www.home-barista.com/tips/bottled-water-for-espresso-machine-t29184.html

Will be using Volvic from now on then!!!


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

If you've got a tesco nearby the ashbeck is reportedly nearly as good but much cheaper. Although it does pale into insignificance considering the cost of the machine having said that!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Tesco ashbeck will be fine, lot cheaper than volvic.


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

Love those 5l bottles for a quid.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

anton78 said:


> Love those 5l bottles for a quid.


Hell yeah, got a cupboard full of them...


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## Zephyr (Apr 19, 2015)

is there any limescale with bottled water?? or none at all.


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

There's still some mineral content. From what I read (have a search - I'm on tapatalk so finding anything's impossible!), you need some - pure water does bad things. Not 100% sure why.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Spence is the man on water...


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## BlueHole222 (Feb 2, 2015)

Thanks Guys,

really great feedback - I'm looking forward to getting the Rocket already!

Do you have any tips for using it? Anything you'd wish you knew when you just got the machine?

Also did you happen to compare it to other machines in it's class? (Duet, etc)

Thanks!


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## amalgam786 (Oct 27, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> Hell yeah, got a cupboard full of them...


How do you decant the water into the Rocket or do you take the water reservoir out every time?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I just tip it in the top, very steady and taking care not to tip water down the side into the machine.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey Blue Hole

I had a similar dilemma recently when I went to get my new machine.

I decided not to go for the Rocket. Not because there was anything at all wrong with it, I just preferred the Profitec 700.

In particular I wanted an inbuilt PID controller, and the shot timer function.

The R58 is a stunning machine. You will NOT regret it.

I would echo the advice everyone else has given. If you can, get to BB and try them both out. You will not find a more helpful bunch of lovely people.

Keep us posted


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

You need to warm the machine up for 30 minutes or so ideally.

Look at a Wemo smart plug.

I use this to set my machine to come on 30 minutes before I wake up. I have also got it set to switch my machine on when I am within 3 miles of my house on my ride home


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

BlueHole222 said:


> Thanks Guys,
> 
> really great feedback - I'm looking forward to getting the Rocket already!
> 
> ...


The Duetto used to be the thinking mans go to machine, but a fall out of opinions between certain parties came up with the Quickmill Verona which forum member Davec was heavily involved in. Their are serious contenders for the rocket. You have a car, jump in and drive all the way to Wellingborough, phoningClaudette first and see all the contenders and more side by side and buy from a tactic trying out experiment!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

As far as I can work out the current R58 owners of which there seems to be quite a few are all happy with their machines .

And if if it hasn't been said before .......what a great looking machine


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> As far as I can work out the current R58 owners of which there seems to be quite a few are all happy with their machines .
> 
> And if if it hasn't been said before .......what a great looking machine


but did they buy them for their coffee making credentials or because they are shiney? point being it is one thing to buy something based on other peoples opinions and another thing entirely to get off your arse and go and try a few!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> but did they buy them for their coffee making credentials or because they are shiney? point being it is one thing to buy something based on other peoples opinions and another thing entirely to get off your arse and go and try a few!


Both shiney and as a bonus I have heard it is quite capable of making coffee too!


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## BlueHole222 (Feb 2, 2015)

Thecatlinux said:


> Both shiney and as a bonus I have heard it is quite capable of making coffee too!


Indeed


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Volvic on offer in Tesco at the moment £1 for 2 x 1.5ltr bottles


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## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

mrsimba said:


> Volvic on offer in Tesco at the moment £1 for 2 x 1.5ltr bottles


I'm no mathematician, but I'll stick with a quid for 5l on the ashbeck!


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## Zephyr (Apr 19, 2015)

anton78 said:


> I'm no mathematician, but I'll stick with a quid for 5l on the ashbeck!


and its easier to plumb it in 5l bottle.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Zephyr said:


> and its easier to plumb it in 5l bottle.


Yeah getting the fitments for the 1.5l bottles is a pain


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm using 65E and R58 too. Very happy. I warm it up for 45 mins before I get up using a cheap timer switch. (Tried WeMo but mine was unreliable). At a pinch 25 mins will do. I wrap a towel round the group if I am short of time, not sure how many minutes this really saves though. The timer switch is a no-brainer and if you can get your Wemo to play nicely then even better. Due to the thermal inertia that makes big e61 machines so temperature stable, they like a decent warm up and are not for turning on and off every time you fancy a drink. At the weekends I leave mine on until my last coffee mid afternoon.

I also use the 5 litre Ashbeck bottles though I've been using volvic while it's on offer but haven't noticed a massive difference in taste. Sometimes I take the water tank out and give it a quick clean, and then fill it before dropping back in. It feels safer than pouring into the machine but I do that as well and have not found it difficult unless you try it with a full 5l bottle (no I haven't!)

Using water with total dissolved solids of 70-80mg/l means it will take a very long time for scale to build up.

I don't think it's noisy on starting. Not silent but I wouldn't say noisy. It makes a funny noise like Lurch from the Addams Family opening a door when you first hit the switch. My favourite noise is the bit where the boiler reaches temp and it makes an excited little "pfff-ssst!" when a valve shuts and the steam manometer begins to climb the dial. If it's been warm and then turned off, sometimes when you turn it on again it makes some slight knocking sounds. If they bother you you can briefly purge the steam and/or water wand and the noise stops. Bit of a non issue for me though.

The removable PID is a nice touch I think. Although it doesn't bother me. I leave mine attached so I can monitor the temp (I don't often fiddle with it). I prefer the traditional look of the R58 with no geekery on the panel and I tuck my PID display out of the way. It will go under the drip tray so can be easily seen, or removed altogether. The machine needs to be powered off for removal and reconnection, because the actual PID (logic board inside machine) needs to reboot to know if the module is attached or not.

Drip tray capacity is fine for 2-3 days if you can't be bothered to empty it (but that seems very lazy).

Back flush with water every so often. Use pulycaff/cafiza sparingly (every few months) but remember that ideally with any e61 machine it's a good idea to put some Molycote 111 or similar on the cam lobes after you chem back flush.

Keeping the head and shower screen clean is a doddle. The shower head and group gasket come out together. You just gently encourage them to drop out using the end of a spoon handle or group cleaning brush. Clean the screen and up round the dispersion block, push the screen/gasket back on, pop the portafilter back in and gently lock into position to seat the gasket. Simples!


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## Gthe1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Are you selling your Silvia?

Geoff


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## BlueHole222 (Feb 2, 2015)

Gthe1 said:


> Are you selling your Silvia?
> 
> Geoff


Possibly,

depends if I get an attractive offer - feel free to ping me


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