# Piccino returns from the grave



## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

Many will know the thread by @Jon about the Piccino that arrived a little battle-scarred.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?37090&p=483034#post483034

I kept thinking about purchasing that when Jon had it up for sale, but the journey there would be c200 miles round trip, but recently I managed to combine it with another journey, so purchase was agreed and the project has at least started, perhaps finished.

The machine had a water leak, electrical (wiring) issues and paint damage.

I'm pleased to say that having compared physical wiring to the diagram, I was able to establish which bits went where, and that in reality there was just one connector that needed to be replaced.

I rigged it up with just the pump to find the water leak (didn't want water spraying onto other electrics), and sure enough it was a leak between the group and the boiler. The screws were loose, but even when tightened it leaked, so strip-down established that there was corrosion on the face of the boiler that was sorted by re-flatting with abrasive,

The paint, had the transit damage plus usual age marks. It's an 8yr old machine, so I wasn't looking for perfection. A bit of preparation and another strip down of the machine (I'd put it together ready for electrical test), and it's now been treated to a coat of black metallic paint plus clear top coat. Not perfect, but tidy.

I still need to source some additional screws (a few were missing), but hopefully the machine will test out OK. I may need to do a few things like a new seal for the boiler, but time will tell. Pics to follow.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Hope you resurrect this quickly and simply!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Any pictures, and well done


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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

This was taken outside in the failing light. I will try and ft one in daylight. The side facing is where the paint had been damaged.

Hope the image posting is OK, not sure if there's an image size limit.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

a bargain - glad to see it back in service


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I was surprised no one bought this pretty quickly as parts and diagrams are so easy to get. Only things I didn't like about mine was no hot water and heat up time. Plus in my case lack of buttons. I could even get my rather tall mugs into it with a bottemless on - bought one from Amazon. Heat up time including the portafilter is 15 to 20min which is pretty quick compared with many. The boilers get up to temperature in a few mins.

Being used mine came with a warning - watch that I don't warp the plastic drip tray with the steam wand. The person I had it off bought it new and did.Fracino replaced it and told him what he had probably done.







He had too.

I had some modifications in mind - mainly fitting an electronic thermostat. A chinese one that can go to 99.9C and hysteresis etc can be set. Not so sure about PID due to the size of the boilers. Actually I wondered about using 2 of the thermostats ; one to say high 80's and another with reduced heating power to 93 or what ever. I found it could be used without this though.

John

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## AndyDClements (Aug 29, 2016)

While I had it apart I had wondered about a PID but it turned to wondering where there would be space, and the conclusion that there just wasn't room inside the machine.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Yes - I suspect anything added would need some sort of power bulge.

It seems there is a PID version of it coming along. The reason I wonder about that approach is that it gets around overshoot by reducing the power to the heating as it approaches the correct temperature. The reason being that if a heater is turned off it's still hot so carries on heating the water. I can hear my DB doing this. Boiling noises up to around 90C then it stops as the heating power has been reduced. The last 3C doesn't take long. That's PID specifically designed for a coffee machine. I can't help wondering if the usual PID controller would work like this especially if it's self tuned. It will aim at super precision and may have problems when a shot is pulled because the conditions are entirely different. I think you will find posts where this is mentioned.

Actually I suspect Fracino have been pretty cute in this area. Maybe it is is worth adding an indicator to show when the brew boiler is being heated - simple - find a neat neon indicator and connect it to the heating element. Chinese thermostats so that the temperature is easy to change and being able to set hysteresis - some one would need to try it. I wondered about using 2. One set to 93 and another some what lower that shorted a diode out in the heater circuit while the temperature is below some figure. That way 93 would be approached at 1/2 power. The diode could be a triac regulator. Or other ways of connecting up for the same effect.

It's pretty noticeable that I haven't sold my Piccino. I'm trying a DB.







I keep lusting after a Gem too but wonder what I would be letting myself in for.

In another post I mentioned it needed more coffee than me BE. Turns out that the BE is a bit unusual. I'm using more coffee in my DB too, 5g+ more and ok it's stronger than what I drank from the BE but not by nearly as much as the extra weight would suggest.

John

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## mousebat (Jun 8, 2018)

As soon as I get around to descaling the steam boiler on my Piccino I'm going to do a little investigation about the viability of going PID whilst the machine is in bits. Preliminary thoughts are to get a chrome Gicar single probe unit to mount under the dispense switch as they look OEM (cue the dremel). In fact if you do the google image search for Piccino PID, you'll get an interesting image from an Australian website: https://goo.gl/images/xBmG

The Gicar controllers are not cheap at about 100 quid and then you'll have to buy a (cheap!) SSR. I know, I know, the Chinese PID's are cheaper; I use 3 of them already with my home brewing equipment... but that stuff lives in the garage, does a job and then is packed away. The Chinese stuff looks like it is used for programming a flux capacitor in a Delorian. SWMBO is already upset I've taken up precious worktop with my coffee gear without it looking crap as well


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

My view on where to stick a power bulge is on the back. Once the parameters are set as required I don't see much need to play with them. I can on the DB to some extent but don't.

There is another version of the board I mentioned that goes to 999C that comes with a thermistor rated some what less than that as usual. It could be used to control the steam boiler - useful for descale as the temperature could be set lower. They are not PID units, just thermostats where the hysteresis can be set also on off timing limitations to prevent hunting - for want of a better word.

There are a number of Gicar units and other than what machine they are usually fitted to I have never been able to find any info at all. If one can react to the fact that a shot is being pulled that would be the one I would choose. The front panels look neat but I would wonder about space for the box on the back fitting as well.

John

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