# Light acidic roasts & digestion/sweating issues



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ive noticed recently that with lighter more acidic coffees, specifically prepared as espresso, tend to cause me some major digestion issues. Belching and bloating occurs immediately. Another symptom is profuse armpit sweating!

Anyone else on here have problems ?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Gary, have a read of this blog post by Mark Overly. I really rate his opinions... often they go against popular belief, but since people are sheep then I think it's fantastic to have people like this challenging established ideas. Anyway, he discusses lighter roasts and some of the various acids in coffee and the line that always sticks in my mind is



> these acids tend affect a person's body, resulting in an edgy, uncomfortable feeling. Some assume it is caffeine, but it is these acids.


http://kaladicoffee.blogspot.com/2011/05/coffee-acidity.html


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

That is a great post and it's interesting to learn all the different acids in coffee.

Most are similar to wine except caffetic and quinic so I wonder if it's one of these that causes discomfort as I'm prett sure wine doesn't cause any discomfort.

Also interesting about brewing at higher temp.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I just can't wait for people to have a little more faith in their taste buds and less in the other people's opinions. Acidic coffee can be absolutely wonderful.....but not in espresso.

There are those that will tell you that Italians favour dark roasts because that is what they have always done, they are conservative and don't like change. Of course they weren't so conservative that they were unable to completely revolutionise coffee by inventing the espresso machine in the first place.

Equally, they will tell you that Italian espresso was born in times of economic hardship,out of inferior cheap beans because they really couldn't afford anything better. Of course this doesn't account for Italian-style blends, such as Union Revelation,that are not only delicious,but are also made from top quality beans.

They will tell you that espresso is disappointing and needs to move on, but does it? Or are these people just trying to find an angle to compete in an already saturated market.

As I may have said before, in my view, light-roast acidic coffees are like 1980's hairstyles. In a few years nobody will admit to ever having liked them.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

I can't drink the lighter stuff due to high acid. I suffer with GRD as it is.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The sweating is worrying, sometimes I feel my armpits are a little swollen/throbbing too. I dont get this off citrus fruits, wine or apples...or indeed pure caffeine in energy drinks etc. Must be one of the many compounds present.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

If you're diagnosed as espresso-intolerant then I'll gladly take a donation of Brewtus


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

good try! he he


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## stavros (May 4, 2011)

Expobarista said:


> As I may have said before, in my view, light-roast acidic coffees are like 1980's hairstyles. In a few years nobody will admit to ever having liked them.


I'm eager to see this much-derided 80's barnet of yours!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Expobarista said:


> As I may have said before, in my view, light-roast acidic coffees are like 1980's hairstyles. In a few years nobody will admit to ever having liked them.


Tell it like it is, ExpoB!


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Gary, come over to the Dark Side, mate - you know it makes sense (evil laughter in background). It's one of the reasons I dislike light roasts, the acidity, and would not put a coffee with a high acidity in espresso. Tried that once with a Kenyan AA - never again.

Sounds to me like throbbing in the armpit is associated with increase in blood pressure, but I'm no doctor.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

It's been interesting for me as for the last few years I've not paid any attention at all to anybody making any noise on the coffee 'scene'. I've come back and found a whole new world out there that doesn't make any sense at all! Light-roast acidic coffees in espresso have been taboo, not because the rest of us are bigoted Luddites who won't try anything new. It's not new, it's been tried before and the reason it isn't part of the long-standing culture is that it tastes foul.

What we appear to have is a case of the Emporer's New Clothes. Some 'big names' are showboating this stuff. Funnily enough they are also exactly the same people who are trying to sell it to you, but I guess that is a coincidence. Who feels confident to stand up and gainsay these people, in the knowledge that the inference will be that you simply aren't skilled enough to make it work? What about dosing? All of a sudden for these 'new' espressos you have a 'recipe' provided by the seller telling you to increase your dose by 50%. Surprise, surprise...

(I've just had three espressos, can you tell?)


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

Bravo. I think the majority of the Great British Coffee Drinking Public will continue to enjoy their cup of dark roast like they always have - totally oblivious to the 3rd wave. And I will be more than happy to accommodate them. Medium or Dark roast anyone?


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## stavros (May 4, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about what a "scene" say, thinks or does. I mean people tend to gravitate to what they like eventually don't they? Personally I've never had an amazing dark roast espresso, so I tend to buy them less often. And I'm far from an elaborately-moustachioed East London hipster!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

CoffeeMagic said:


> Sounds to me like throbbing in the armpit is associated with increase in blood pressure, but I'm no doctor.


My BP is 126/82 with resting pulse of 50...worked on my cardio loads to improve it. I have my own monitor as I had hypertension a few years back (work stress related)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I think there is a happy place somewhere darker than light and somewhere lighter than dark (what a fence sitter hey)....I will say this much - the problem doesnt appear to be every light roast coffee, nor any particular origin. For example - Ive no issues at all with Konga Peaberry Natural and that is very lightly roasted...however Blake which is a tad darker has a profound impact on these symptoms (would be still be considered light I guess)


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

How long ago was it roasted?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Are you sure it's not caffeine related? Are you brewing/extracting lighter roasts for long, increasing caffeine levels?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

CoffeeMagic said:


> Bravo. I think the majority of the Great British Coffee Drinking Public will continue to enjoy their cup of dark roast like they always have - totally oblivious to the 3rd wave. And I will be more than happy to accommodate them. Medium or Dark roast anyone?


Not light, not dark, medium for me. I find that if it has hit 2nd crack then it has usually gone too far for me.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

From my perspective, I welcomed the advent of lighter roasting than is common with Italian coffee. It initially came as quite a revelation to me that coffee beans didn't need to have to be dark and oily to taste good.

I'm a great Italophile, and spend a lot of time there, but I'm firmly of the opinion that although the coffees there are usually good, they are seldom exceptional, other than in a very few outlets. Yes, they invented the game, but others have taken it to a whole new level, whilst they have rested on their laurels. (And why not - I'd sooner have an average coffee in Venice than an exceptional one in Milto Keynes.)

I'm not quite at Mike's level, but anything going well into 2nd crack is usually way to overdone for me.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I have a traditional Italian-style dark roasted espresso blend (roasted today!!!) waiting for me in the morning to compare to my Has Bean single origin espresso coffee that never even exchanged glances with the second crack.

Should be interesting and involve a lot of mess









I think these are the two opposites of the scale so a relevant comparison I think you'll all agree.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

CoffeeMagic said:


> How long ago was it roasted?


Blake 9th Jan. Konga 6th Jan


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

CoffeeGeek said:


> btw, Gary, what's the name of the roast you been using to cause your symptoms?


Blake but many many others have resulted in similar probs


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Of course you can roast certain beans to less than medium, and they'll work nicely in espresso. What I'm baffled by is sometimes the choice of bean. Now I'm not suggesting that high acid floral beans should be roasted dark as that would kill off all their particular flavours, I just think they are better off in a filter of some other form of brew.

Of course, in the end it is just a matter of taste


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

These high -grown beans are also harder to extract and coaxing the caramels and choc hints requires drastic action = the Gary ristretto treatment.

Jailbreak 2012 for example (Thanks Expo). 15g dose , 94c, 28 seconds producing 23g = sour sour sour, yuk. Really unpleasant.

grind finer

14.5, 94c, 29 seconds producing 21.5g = sour , mild yuk..not quite right.

grind finer

14.1g, 94c, 34 seconds producing 21g = nice! Fruity, yes, acidity, yes, but choc/toffee on finish also, yes. sourness, no ! result.

Will be trying same grind setting with 13.9g & see if can balance it up even more


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Had you got that shot first time, would you have thought 'Mmmm..that's absolutely delicious, nothing wrong with that at all', or was it just in comparison to what came previously that made it seem ok?


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, this is an eye opener! There's me thinking it's the milk and caffeine at work making me feel a bit ugh, and usually straight to the loo within the hour. Although it's medium roast, it's quite sour and acidic for sure. I just drank some more of the medium roast Monsooned Malabar here at home, and I don't feel 100%, but not as bad as work's coffee. I never have trouble with high roasts, unless the milk is burnt, nasty chemical reactions going on there!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Very good info Gary.

I too had started to learn toward long extractions and lower dosing but grinding that fine gave my preciso a migraine.

What baskets are you using?

I'm all for trying new things but dialling in a dark roast now seems so easy.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

15g VST, hence me trying 15g as a start point


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Expobarista said:


> Had you got that shot first time, would you have thought 'Mmmm..that's absolutely delicious, nothing wrong with that at all', or was it just in comparison to what came previously that made it seem ok?


Quite possibly the latter....Tomorrow I will recreate the 14.1 dose, keeping everything the same, with a fresh palate.

FYI - at these parameters Jailbreak is delicious through milk, even if my #freepourfriday attempt sucked


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I must admit to trying the Blake with higher doses last year and found that even in a VST 18g basket with even longer extraction time (40 seconds) I struggled to achieve the results I was aiming for. Lighter roasts of coffee do not extract as easily and so require a shorter column of coffee in the basket (with a finer grind) and longer extraction times. Start with 14g in the 15g basket and aim for a around double the volume of espresso in around 32 seconds.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I'd love to see a video of someone doing a long extraction on a light roast on a naked PF


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