# New Member, with questions??



## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

First off I would like to say hi to the Forum,

Currently I am making do with an AeroPress a couple of stove top coffee machines and a Hario grinder, and while I'm happy with the results the ability to pull an espresso at home has resulted in me deciding that I need to take the plunge and treat myself to a proper machine and grinder.

Well I say myself the truth is that I have been procrastinating for so long that I am now fast approaching the big 40 and have decided that my wife can get me the coffee machine, and I will buy the grinder, which leads me on to my questions;

re machines I started looking at the Rancilio Silvia, then realised that I would most likely want to install a PID, so decided that taking into account the additional cost of time spent installing etc. and the purchase price of the PID I could probably justify going for a EMC Classika II PID machine, &#8230;&#8230;. I have now decided that your only 40 once so stretching the budget to £1,300 mark for the machine seems reasonable? So now I'm considering the Rocket Cellini plus PID Coffee Machine.

So question 1 is, what other machines would you recommend looking at in and around the 1,300 mark?

Question 2 is what grinder? I had been considering a Eureka Mignon Mk 2 but seeing how I have generously increased my wife's budget does this mean that the Eureka is out classed?

And while I would love to have a Mazzer im not sure I can stretch that far.

Apologies for rambling on but your views and opinions would be most appreciated

Kind Regards

James


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are thinking of spending in the region of £1300 on a machine - you want to think seriously about how much you spend on a grinder. Mignon is a great little grinder but not for a machine costing over a grand. The grinder is, in fact, the crucial part of the equation - invest as much as you can in one.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Hi James,

I too am a new member.

I don't have the experience to comment upon any of the other makes you mention but for the last four and a half years have enjoyed making and drinking great coffee from courtesy of a Rocket Giotto.

When I graduated from stovetop to espresso machine I started off with a Rancillio Silvia / Rocky grinder setup. After 1 year I upgraded to a Rocket Giotto Premium , in my view, a whole different world of coffee making pleasure. If I'm honest, when I upgraded Rocky for a Mazzer Mini there was less of real impact but the MM is a lovely grinder.

I have just treated myself to the Giotto Plus PID. The new features are arguably not critical in my coffee making world but it's still a pleasure to own. I believe the Cellini / Giotto only differ in styling so would heartily recommend.

Good luck with your new purchase, whatever it may be.

Tony


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Would it be wrong of me to post here just to get my post count up to 5, so that I can utilise private messaging?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Snakehips said:


> Would it be wrong of me to post here just to get my post count up to 5, so that I can utilise private messaging?


It would be a good idea to post in the new members' section and introduce yourself. If you just want to use the forum to sell something - you won't win many friends. Also, please read forum rules for responding to 'wanted'/ 'for sale' threads - all dealings must be on open forum until a sale is agreed - only then is it OK to go to PM.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> It would be a good idea to post in the new members' section and introduce yourself. If you just want to use the forum to sell something - you won't win many friends. Also, please read forum rules for responding to 'wanted'/ 'for sale' threads - all dealings must be on open forum until a sale is agreed - only then is it OK to go to PM.


May I clarify....

Unless I'm mistaken I did post to the new member's introduction section, two days back and whilst I was honest in saying that I had found the site by virtue of a 'Google' that lead me to one of your 'wanted' posts I also stated that I looked forward to the site providing me with hours of coffee related browsing.

For my sins, I am a serious contributor to another, albeit not coffee related forum and one of the first things I did was to read the forum guidelines.

As a result of my initial and hopefully legitimate, response to the 'wanted', I received a number of PM's from some existing forum members, to which I would like to respond.

Although a was able to respond to some of them on Tuesday, today I found myself restricted through lack of posts.

Part of my response is to inform those members that I would wish to abide by the forum guidelines. I will gladly PM you a copy if you wish.

I do apologise for the cheeky post #4 and do hope that we remain on each other's Christmas card list


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

Snakehips said:


> May I clarify....
> 
> Unless I'm mistaken I did post to the new member's introduction section, two days back and whilst I was honest in saying that I had found the site by virtue of a 'Google' that lead me to one of your 'wanted' posts I also stated that I looked forward to the site providing me with hours of coffee related browsing.
> 
> ...


That's a good clarification - and you'll understand from other forum life why the systemic kid gave you a well intentioned prompt. You can go on my Christmas card list, whatever happens. I hope you enjoy this forum - it's far and away the best that I have been part of.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Thanks for that Phil.

I do fully understand.

The cheeky-chappie in me is tempted to proclaim that I'm now well on my way towards 10 posts but maybe best not to?

Re the Christmas cards...... any chance I could have the money instead?


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> If you are thinking of spending in the region of £1300 on a machine - you want to think seriously about how much you spend on a grinder. Mignon is a great little grinder but not for a machine costing over a grand. The grinder is, in fact, the crucial part of the equation - invest as much as you can in one.


Thanks for your response ,

What level of grinder would you recommend I look at? is something like the Mazzer mini / Eureka Zenith the level I should seriously be looking at to do the Rocket any kind of justice or would something like Compak K3 Touch do the job ?


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Hi James,
> 
> I too am a new member.
> 
> ...


Tony,

It sounds like you have ended up with the kind of set up that I'm now looking at , can I ask if with hindsight you wish you had taken the plunge from the outset and stumped up for something like your current set up instead of the Silvia from the off ?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I think many will say 'spend as much as you can on the grinder' but personally my palate is not so sophisticated - and I'd rather have a decent HX machine and a good, simple, consistent grinder than the pinnacle of grinding - and a single boiler that you have to wait for steam for (may be less of an issue if you're not a milk person)

If I were you (and this is personal advice from someone impatient) I'd try to get a good low faff, consistent dosing grinder - generally, wisdom says the bigger the burrs the better. The Zenith 65e is one grinder that's always appealed to me (some complain of clumping) but it's £500-550ish new / 350-400 nearly new on here and I think it's a great bit of kit (on paper - having never used one) - looks low faff - load beans, set dose, go, go, go.

I bought the Mythos [cheap] and my life has been SO much simpler ever since; much less anger and violence in the coffee area of my kitchen.


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

jonc said:


> I think many will say 'spend as much as you can on the grinder' but personally my palate is not so sophisticated - and I'd rather have a decent HX machine and a good, simple, consistent grinder than the pinnacle of grinding - and a single boiler that you have to wait for steam for (may be less of an issue if you're not a milk person)
> 
> If I were you (and this is personal advice from someone impatient) I'd try to get a good low faff, consistent dosing grinder - generally, wisdom says the bigger the burrs the better. The Zenith 65e is one grinder that's always appealed to me (some complain of clumping) but it's £500-550ish new / 350-400 nearly new on here and I think it's a great bit of kit (on paper - having never used one) - looks low faff - load beans, set dose, go, go, go.
> 
> I bought the Mythos [cheap] and my life has been SO much simpler ever since; much less anger and violence in the coffee area of my kitchen.


So in reality it's a £500 mark machine that I need to be considering do you get a lot coming up for sale on the forum?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

You mean machine or grinder?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Consider everything!

You need to ask yourself,

How many drinks are you going to make per day and what type of drinks?

Is this going to be the one and only purchase you make, or are you open/able to upgrade in the future?

How much do you really want to spend?

How will it fit in with your kitchen, space?

Its all very easy for us to say i have this set up, its great you should get it, but it will come down to you and what you want and need.


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

jonc said:


> You mean machine or grinder?


Sorry yes grinder, I'm quite keen on the Rocket Cellini but the grinder I'm uncertain of


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

jamfit said:


> Tony,
> 
> It sounds like you have ended up with the kind of set up that I'm now looking at , can I ask if with hindsight you wish you had taken the plunge from the outset and stumped up for something like your current set up instead of the Silvia from the off ?


James,

Yes, with hindsight I would certainly have skipped the Silvia. It's not that Silvia couldn't make a great cup of coffee because she could but being a milky coffee drinker I found the single boiler routine a bit of a pain on occasion. However, she did serve to convince me that I wanted to enjoy making and drinking espresso based drinks at home. When i purchased Silvia I was not constrained by budget but as a new convert to espresso based drinks I would have found it hard to justify going straight to heat exchanger money, as in the Giotto. Silvia did serve to convince me that I wanted enjoy both making and drinking espresso coffee at home. If you are committed espresso drinker and have the budget then I would say 'take the plunge' and sidestep Silvia.

As for the grinder, the other guy's comments re grinders obviously make perfect sense. There has to be a minimum standard of grind, below which you are wasting your time feeding it into a quality espresso machine.

Do you have the budget to max the machine and grinder? I ran with the Giotto and the Rocky for a while, without issue, before swapping to the Mazzer Mini but bear in mind that I am pretty much a one trick pony milky drinker as opposed to an espresso purist. Personal view&#8230;&#8230; if I had to choose between Silvia + Fabuloso Grinder or Giotto + Rocky Grinder whist awaiting my next opportunity to upgrade, then the latter would win.

Hope that helps.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

By way of a welcome, (welcome BTW!) here is my twopennorth. I am not an expert, nor do I have a massive wallet or kitchen, I'm on my 2nd (proper) machine and 3rd grinder. I would say, as a relative noob that was in your position not so long ago, (and to repeat some advice already posted):

Machine: do you do milk or just espresso/Americano? For how many people? Are you feeling that this is something you will stick with? If you are doing milk drinks for more than one person it's a good use of budget to get a new hx or a used dual boiler. If you live in a hard water area be aware of the need to avoid scale. This means low TDS bottled water or a filtration system (RO). HX machines often need a cooling flush after being sat idle for a while which is annoying if you keep having to run off and buy Volvic every couple of days. Dual boiler machines use less water but cost more (unless you get a good deal on a Sage DB) and are more of a PITA to descale.

I dipped my toe in the water so to speak with a Gaggia Classic and iberital MC2. I make on average two cappuccini and an espresso every morning before leaving for work and my girlfriend likes latte. So I rapidly realised it was worth my while skipping the intermediate steps and getting what I hope will last me many years rather than taking the hit on several upgrades. I was lucky enough to find a respected equipment reviewer on here who had a hardly-used R58 and 65E for sale. Well pleased.

Grinder wise I'd echo the advice that the grinder makes the biggest difference to the taste, and can reduce the hassle factor considerably. So having had an MC2, I got a Mazzer Mini doser. It was a great grinder that made good coffee but I got fed up with the doser, and its associated retention and faff. I sold it to another member (who AFAIK is still happy with it) and got the 65E mentioned. Grind wise it's comparable to a Mazzer Super Jolly but being on-demand it is so easy to use and hassle-free. You just set the grind and timer (to 0.1s) and get well within half a gram of target weight each time. Plus you can remove the top burr without affecting the grind unlike the Mazzers. I don't find it clumps particularly and love using it. For what I need it's great. I may upgrade to another similar but better grinder one day (Ceado E37s?) when I feel my tastes are discerning enough and my skill good enough to warrant it but for me the 65E is just very convenient and good enough for my level. It also depends how mechanically minded you are - lots of guys here like getting big Mazzers and modify them for single dosing but for me it's just too much hassle. There are many ways to skin this cat but it is worth getting the best grinder you can afford/justify.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Welcome to the forum. Used kit will get you more for your buck.

It's a good budget to start with.

Agree that the grinder is as important as the machine.

You could also factor in some training which will save you time and money in the long run.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Agree with hotmetal.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

If only I could have said all that in 3 words! (You don't have to agree with that bit as well BTW! ) 

Unless it was meant as an instruction.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I had an earlier attempt at using lots of words in post #11.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh yes! Was going to say, I thought the Mythos *was* the pinnacle of grinding? Although if you've seen that anorexic Dalek that CC brought to the Rave day...


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

The r120 or whatever. Crazy big. No 'peak' is the pinnacle isn't it!? Or ek or mythos one or something other than a boring standard mythos. Yawn. So old hat. But I love it.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

jonc said:


> The r120 or whatever. Crazy big. .


no no crazy good!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

You beat me to the Peak pun. That R120 is Dr Evil and my 65E is Mini Me.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

65e is not mini me, the ek is mini me


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

So is this it now then Dave - every one sells their ek and gets a r120? Want a Mythos in Px? Any summary thoughts on versalab or hg1? Should we start a new thread!?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

no don't buy an r120, i like the exclusivity of my little club


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

And that other chap with the windscreen wiper motor powered hg1. Don't forget him.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

jonc said:


> And that other chap with the windscreen wiper motor powered hg1. Don't forget him.


shhhhhhhhh


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> no don't buy an r120, i like the exclusivity of my little club


"Little"? ....It's bigger than metal Micky


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> 65e is not mini me, the ek is mini me


I'll give you that. Not many grinders make an EK look small. I always thought EK43 sounds like an assault rifle.

Ok. Despicable me. The Mignon is a minion?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

urbanbumpkin said:


> "Little"? ....It's bigger than metal Micky


You're showing your age....

..and so am I for knowing who Metal Micky is


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Grinders are important, I started out with a Brasilia/Rossi RR45 and jumped to a Mazzer Major. Even with a Gaggia Classic I'm getting lovely espresso. Not knocking the RR45 though as it's easy to dial in and a great grinder to start on. I don't know what the Super Jolly is like though as mine needs new burrs before I use it.


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

Thank all for the feedback, lots of food for thought I think I might have a good look through the for sale section, and the training is an interesting option that I haven't considered.


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## Gander24 (Apr 11, 2015)

jamfit said:


> Thank all for the feedback, lots of food for thought I think I might have a good look through the for sale section, and the training is an interesting option that I haven't considered.


Hi Jamfit, i was in a similar position to you a few months ago, albeit i had had a gaggia classic for 3 years, but i was new to the forums and looking to upgrade. i decided to see if anything quality came up second hand, but i was willing to splash out new if this didn't happen (i got a promotion in work, which means i need to get out my bed 2 hours earlier, thats how i justified such upgrade to myself and my wife!). Im glad i did not jump in early, i watched the for sale threads for months, and learned a lot about the value of second hand machines and grinders, the guys on the forum upgrade/change quite often (some more than others) so if you would consider a second hand machine and grinder you could get a great deal for 50-70% cost of new. I myself got a second hand Expobar leva (brewtus) dual boiler from the forums sale page, delivered with accessories for under £600. Im over the moon with it and plan to upgrade my grinder the same way. I learned a lot on the forums while i waited on the right deal for me, and glad i didnt jump in and buy new without a large deal of research. i know you may want a new machine, but its food for thought if you want to come in under your budget with excellent products.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Plus one. I never would have had the cash (or at least the chutzpah to spend that much) to get my stuff new. But if you hang out in the forum for a while and suss out who knows a bit about looking after their kit, with a bit of luck you'll get to buy something great for a lot less. Also it will give you time to figure out what you really want, rather than buying something you end up expecting too much from.


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

Thanks Gander24 and hotmetal, just picked up on your comments and I think your right I'm keeping a keen eye on the for sale section mainly for a grinder......only trouble is the more I read the the more I realise I know nothing !!


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