# Centralising Eric



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Now that a few people on here have Eric's Thermometer (he was asking for it to be returned yesterday whoever has it) might it be useful to collate on this thread. I have bought one which is enrolee and I know I will have a thousand questions. Is there any software for collating the data or is it Excel again!


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## evoman (May 13, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Now that a few people on here have Eric's Thermometer (he was asking for it to be returned yesterday whoever has it) might it be useful to collate on this thread. I have bought one which is enrolee and I know I will have a thousand questions. Is there any software for collating the data or is it Excel again!


Can you link to a thread to place this in context? I'm curious...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

evoman said:


> Can you link to a thread to place this in context? I'm curious...


If you do a search you will see that there have been one or two group buys for these recently. I am not particularly technical and find all the blurb Eric sent me difficult to digest. I am unsure exactly what else you mean evo


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

"Eric's E61 Thermometer" Evo - whack that in google.

dfk- The technical side I think is much like using a Scace v taste testing. The Scace gives you all the technical graphs and data, but you can manage without.

Eric's very technical manual gives you a really specific breakdown of how the flush affects the group and when to pull you shot, but so long as you understand the basic operation of a HX, the overheating HX pipe, the idea of thermal mass in the group etc then the thermometer is just there to tell you how your flush routine affects the temperature as it is different with different manufacturers.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

What machine are you fitting it to?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> What machine are you fitting it to?


Orchestrale Nota


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Well, having ordered one, I have just found out I do not need it! I thought that the water coming out of the group was not 'hot' after standing idle and I am right! That is because the Nota, like a lot of good quality modern HX machines has a thermosyphonic loop which is never idle. Anyone wanting one watch the For Sale section!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Anyone wanting one watch the For Sale section!


The machine or the thermometer !


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You will have to wait and see!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Both then...


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Tis a nice looking machine though, just not sure about the price tag.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Well, having ordered one, I have just found out I do not need it! I thought that the water coming out of the group was not 'hot' after standing idle and I am right! That is because the Nota, like a lot of good quality modern HX machines has a thermosyphonic loop which is never idle. Anyone wanting one watch the For Sale section!


I think running a long flush should still allow you to bring the brew temp down if you wanted to experiment with a lower brew temp... but certainly its main purpose is nulled.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> I think running a long flush should still allow you to bring the brew temp down if you wanted to experiment with a lower brew temp... but certainly its main purpose is nulled.


too scientific for me! I just like making coffee, nice and easy!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> too scientific for me! I just like making coffee, nice and easy!


I've heard lever machines are good for that approach...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Tis a nice looking machine though, just not sure about the price tag.


It is topped Verona, Rocket and Duetto price. It is an HX but has a thermosyphon so none of the usual water sitting in the group problems. It has a 3 litre boiler and seems to be very temp stable. If you can get your mind round the dual boiler is best argument, then it does everything beautifully! Anyone who wants to see a short comparison with a Giotto, look at this






The point it highlights for me, is that the price difference is justified by the superior use of commercial quality components, yet every loves Rockets?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Nota looks much more rigid, flex-wise, compared to the Giotto.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Machines in same price range as Notta

R58

Verona

Alex Duetto Mk4 ....

Now what do you choose ?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

VBM Domobar Super HX or Super DB also in that price range, both with similar commercial inners.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I cant comment on quality of the nota , i do struggle to see its value v the stuff in it's current price point .....


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I like the curved back, seems a waste to put it against a wall, island in your kitchen is where this machine would look great!

And of course, i would choose an R58 over it


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I cant comment on quality of the nota , i do struggle to see its value v the stuff in it's current price point .....


But what can any of the machines quoted do, that the Nota cannot. The only thing I can think of is a PID and they do not interest me at all since I drink milk based. When you have a 3 litre boiler steaming becomes a total red herring...so....please tell me


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> The only thing I can think of is a PID and they do not interest me at all since I drink milk based. When you have a 3 litre boiler steaming becomes a total red herring...so....please tell me


This confuses me, yes you have the ability to steam plenty after the shot is pulled, but what happens when you want to pull a shot straight after you have steamed?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> This confuses me, yes you have the ability to steam plenty after the shot is pulled, but what happens when you want to pull a shot straight after you have steamed?


The thermosyphon takes care of all that mullarkey


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> This confuses me, yes you have the ability to steam plenty after the shot is pulled, but what happens when you want to pull a shot straight after you have steamed?


I don't understand, you should be asked to pull a shot or steam before, during, after, whatever


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

i see, so do all HX machines have this, or just the expensive ones?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> But what can any of the machines quoted do, that the Nota cannot. ....please tell me


Cost less?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I don't understand, you should be asked to pull a shot or steam before, during, after, whatever


as far as I know, you can. Iodinate have enough working knowledge to understand what happens when you have a single boiler, a thermosyphon and the need for steam. Perhaps someone else can explain but what I do know, is that I can pull a shot and steam at the same time, or before, or after without venting


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> Cost less?


the ones mentioned are all circa £1800 I think


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> the ones mentioned are all circa £1800 I think


VBM Domobar Super HX is circa £1400, but even that could be considered bad value in the face of machines like the Lelit or Expobar, it depends how much value you put on commercial inners in the home environment.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Its an interesting machine, ill say that, you can pull shots and steam away till the cows come home with one boiler...

So how much are BB paying you for creating this thread?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> VBM Domobar Super HX is circa £1400, but even that could be considered bad value in the face of machines like the Lelit or Expobar, it depends how much value you put on commercial inners in the home environment.


The answer to that, is how much you complain when one of your main components fail! For example, the Nota has a fused circuit breaker so if anything surges the fuse pops before any fancy electrical bits. You might not value that, but I do. If you have seen that Youtube video link I posted. If you are a Giotto owner you may or may not be remotely bothered by the flexing caused when gripping the pf handle.

I guess it comes down to you pays your money and takes your choice.

Personally, I like the idea of commercial grade components in a domestic environment


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

froggystyle said:


> Its an interesting machine, ill say that, you can pull shots and steam away till the cows come home with one boiler...
> 
> So how much are BB paying you for creating this thread?


What HX machines cant you do this on?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> The answer to that, is how much you complain when one of your main components fail! For example, the Nota has a fused circuit breaker so if anything surges the fuse pops before any fancy electrical bits. You might not value that, but I do. If you have seen that Youtube video link I posted. If you are a Giotto owner you may or may not be remotely bothered by the flexing caused when gripping the pf handle.
> 
> I guess it comes down to you pays your money and takes your choice.
> 
> Personally, I like the idea of commercial grade components in a domestic environment


As you say, all personal choice, but the VBM sits in the same commercial innards category. I'm not sure about the surge 'protection' but this is a doddle to add to any socket.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Its an interesting machine, ill say that, you can pull shots and steam away till the cows come home with one boiler...
> 
> So how much are BB paying you for creating this thread?


I will take that comment in jest Froggy. Are you suggesting that I have no right to talk about my machine? this thread started off about a thermometer and nothing else


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think taking it in jest would be sensible, as that would appear to be exactly as it was intended.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

On a youtube vid, the rotary seems quite loud on the Nota. The low water alarm is a nice feature and is loud. i like it, though i always like something a bit leftfield!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> I think taking it in jest would be sensible, as that would appear to be exactly as it was intended.


When you run with the pack..........


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Ack, nevermind.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

glevum said:


> On a youtube vid, the rotary seems quite loud on the Nota. The low water alarm is a nice feature and is loud. i like it, though i always like something a bit leftfield!


The rotary does not seem loud. Perhaps it was fitted with the vibe pump as well and was filling the boiler. Mine is plumbed in and does not have the vibe anyway. I have never had a rotary pump so cannot compare it to anything else, but when the shot pours I personally think it nice and quiet. Marmite looking machines will always be loved by some and loathed by others. I liked it, so bought one!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It has a vibe pump for filling the machine


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I will take that comment in jest Froggy. Are you suggesting that I have no right to talk about my machine? this thread started off about a thermometer and nothing else


You have every right to talk about your machine and ask questions related to said machine, but it wasn't in jest, it was an honest question?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> It has a vibe pump for filling the machine


Mine does not. It is an optional extra and I do not have it. Mine is also line fed which is just flicking a switch


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> You have every right to talk about your machine and ask questions related to said machine, but it wasn't in jest, it was an honest question?


An honest question was it? Well, I will try and answer it then. I do not know you, and you do not know me. I do not know your moral standards nor you mine. Me, I have no price. there is no one in the world can offer me to enough to compromise myself. Bella Barista do not pay me one iota for anything. IfI choose to promote them oe their products it is because I wanted to.

I have never mentioned BB once in this thread as this thread is not about BB.

I am sorry if you cannot understand that there are people in the world who are motivated to help others without the need to receive anything in exchange. yes I get a discount sometimes from BB, but I do not ask for it or expect it and I buy my wares from many other companies.

So,the honest answer to your honest question is zilch.....please do not doubt my integrity again


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

yes I get a discount sometimes from BB

Cheers.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Ever the cynic froggy... what difference would it make, anyone spending that much money is likely to actually do their research, and dfk has hardly pushed it as the best machine in its category hands down... I honestly dont understand the need to require him to point out his BB discount here.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> The only thing I can think of is a PID and they do not interest me at all since I drink milk based. When you have a 3 litre boiler steaming becomes a total red herring...so....please tell me


What does this mean


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> yes I get a discount sometimes from BB
> 
> Cheers.


If you think I promote BB to get a discount, you are incorrect.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> What does this mean


It means that a small boiler a la Classic, you have to raise the temp to be able to steam,but with large boiler linked to a thermosiphon, you do not need worry. A PID allows yu to change the temp of the water making the shot which in turn alters the taste, but in milk, you are unlikely to adjust the temp as you are not going to taste it


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> but in milk, you are unlikely to adjust the temp as you are not going to taste it


Is that a fact.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> but in milk, you are unlikely to adjust the temp as you are not going to taste it


Milk might mask a bad shot but it can accentuate a great shot! every shot that you drink should be pulled correctly at the right temp for the bean and its roast profile, that way you get the best starting point. So I disagree, if you have the capability to tweek the temp to suit the bean regardless if it is going into a volume of milk then why wouldn't you?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That's comparing an apple (single boiler double use) to an orange (hx) though. It's not just a bigger boiler.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have not had a PID for 5 years and I never used it. Speaking purely from my point of view, I fail to see how you will change a milk based drink unless you taste the shot first....that is the point I made. I accept some people have better palates than mine, but since I was speaking from my point of view, I do not see how anyone can really tell me I am wrong!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> That's comparing an apple (single boiler double use) to an orange (hx) though. It's not just a bigger boiler.


sorry, I forget now the point you were making..!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> I have not had a PID for 5 years and I never used it. Speaking purely from my point of view, I fail to see how you will change a milk based drink unless you taste the shot first....that is the point I made. I accept some people have better palates than mine, but since I was speaking from my point of view, I do not see how anyone can really tell me I am wrong!


Your post came across as more of a general assertion, cant argue over personal preference.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dylan said:


> Your post came across as more of a general assertion, cant argue over personal preference.


My mistake then


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Once again, I have been modded because someone has felt the need to report me to a mod for using the word tw*t. If they bothered to look the word up, they would see that it actually has two recognised meanings in every day english language, so who are they to determine which one I meant.

My use of such language was because once again, someone chose to level a personal attack on my integrity. I doubt the person who was offended by my use of language spared a thought as to why I said that word. Strange old world hey? Some of you lot must live in such a sterile atmosphere I am surprised you have enough oxygen to breathe!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> sorry, I forget now the point you were making..!


That your sales patter needs a lot of work


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

And what was I selling again?


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

See why some forums have disclaimers. a reviewer has to state wheather the item is on loan, bought outright, bought with heavy discount from said retailer. would make modding easier


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

dfk41 said:


> Once again, I have been modded


The context in which the term was used was derogatory. In my opinion the post was correctly modded.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

great to see new machines on the forum though


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Glenn said:


> The context in which the term was used was derogatory. In my opinion the post was correctly modded.


Any more derogatory than my integrity Glenn?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

People have different perceptions of integrity.

If the comment had not been made then there would have been no reason to moderate it.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But the comment was made, so, what came first, the chicken or the egg?


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

Stay off the forum David. I Don't remember moderators pulling you up on trivial words years ago when I joined.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

dfk41 said:


> But the comment was made, so, what came first, the chicken or the egg?


The process is;

1. Do not rise to the bait

2. Click report post icon

When these 2 actions are followed the posts are reviewed by the moderators and removed from view until a decision has been reached on what (if any) action needs to be taken

If you feel particularly aggrieved then feel free to PM me when you click Report Post as well so that I can review

Sometimes reviews may take several hours or even a day if I am in meetings or travelling

As you will have noticed - we have adopted a light touch moderation approach - which is the general ethos


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks for taking the time to reply Glenn. Forum, please note that I am responding to Glenn publicly, and not by pm as I have absolutely no problem in the world knowing what I say or do. I am sorry. Sorry that the world has deteriorated to such an extent, that people feel the need to hide behind a cloak of anonymity and run off to the mods to make complaints about this that and the other. this is a public forum and whilst not suggesting that every disagreement needs end in a modded slanging match, if you are genuinely offended by something I have said, what is wrong with adding a message to the thread. Whoever complained to jonc about my language could have just said to me, hey, come on, its a public forum and we discourage that sort of language. Please change it.

That, I would respect as it is what a man would do. I would imagine, that the vast majority of 'complaints' about actions and language on here are sourced from the same few people. So, once again in society, we have the few trying to impose their beliefs and values on others.

Take away the right of anonymity. By all means let people report a thread to the mods, but let it be seen who and why. the mods are there to do a job and I am sure they do not really need the help of the few moral crusaders to spot something which needs actioned.

How strong are your beliefs, if you are not willing to stand up and be counted over them?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Just for the record, i didn't report it, didn't even see the post.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Just for the record, i didn't report it, didn't even see the post.


Froggy, for the record, none of this was aimed at you. You had the decency to question me on the forum so it would not have made any sense to sneak off into the bushes mate


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Froggy, for the record, none of this was aimed at you. You had the decency to question me on the forum so it would not have made any sense to sneak off into the bushes mate


From here it looked like you aimed a personal remark at him


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> From here it looked like you aimed a personal remark at him


Why am I not surprised you would think that. You should know me by now jeebsy.....I do not mince words. froggy kept everything open, a bit like you.....I have no problem with that. We can disagree and still stay civil, even if you are on the wrong side of the wall


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Not walls again....


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

For the record, I respect peoples right to anonymity. The escalation process reflects this.

No one who presses report post is required to make themselves known to anyone.

The best way to ensure people don't report posts is to avoid posting anything that might cause offence.

Not all posts reported require action. Where they do I can be contacted to discuss. Again, this does not have to be in public.

In the greater scheme of things we get very few reported posts, relating to less than 0.05 % of members.

Therefore this is a non issue


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## Colio07 (Mar 9, 2015)

Seems we have wandered distinctly off the stated topic of this thread. I am not for a moment suggesting that we shouldn't be having this sort of debate, but if there is anything more to say on this perhaps we might split this thread into two separate ones (one on the original topic and one on the topic of modding/reporting/anonymity)? Alternatively, if there is nothing more to be said on this subject, perhaps we might return to the original topic?


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