# Gaggia Classic - causing me much frustration... where am I going wrong?



## drgekko

I was so excited to start making espresso - after watching tonight's Apprentice followed by You're Fired, I unpacked my newly acquired toy and thought I'd try and make some decaf espresso before bed. It's way past bedtime and I feel totally deflated! All I've done is fill the reservoir a few times and wasted almost half a pack of coffee!!!

Here's what I did - please comment on what I've done wrong....

1. Coffee purchased from Starbucks - Dark Bold Espresso - ground instore for "metal filters"

2. Reservoir filled in the Classic - then switched on left and right rocker switches - hot water spouting from the "mouth" below and the left rocker switch red light turns off - so I switch it.

3. Filled 14g of ground coffee into the portafiller and tampered it.

4. Locked portafiller into position and placed espresso cup below.

5. Left rocker switch remains illuminated.

6. Flicked right rocker switch and very runny, dilute coffee pouring out, no pressure, no crema.

I'm sure I've made a balls up somewhere but I honestly didn't think rocket science was involved.

Now I regret selling my bean to cup machine, I feel like a pratt and my wife looked at me with a "quelle surprise" glance before saying goodnight.

Pissed off to say the least. Any tips please????

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EDIT 29th May 2013*

*
*

The ground coffee was too coarse! Following your helpful advice, picked up Illy espresso today (red tin) and tried the gaggia. This time it was a slower trickle and at last I saw crema with some ??tiger striping (is that the correct nomencleture?). I used a single cup so it filled within 13 seconds or so. BUT I don't like the taste - it's a bit too tangy for my liking. I prefer a much darker, bolder flavour. Now this was just a quick tryout - next time, I shall be more methodical and actually measure out 16.5g, allow the gaggia to warm up 30 minutes. Is the portafilter meant for 2 cups?. There's a smaller metal cup thingy that fits in it - is this for single cup?

*EDIT 1st June 2013*

Today I managed to make a simple double espresso which I really enjoyed, following some useful tips by my fellow forumites. Thank you all very much indeed! A few other things helped - having a light workout in the morning, a healthy smoothie for brekkie and feeling refreshed after a shower and basking in the lovely sunshine! It all adds to enjoying a lovely espresso anyway! Lol. Now I wish to taste better coffee....


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## coffeechap

starbucks coffee is the problem, the coffee is not ground anywhere near fine enough, the classic will kill a bean to cup so time to wipe the smirk off the wifes face..... go back to starbucks (crap coffee but bear with me) get a bag or espresso raost, ask them to grind it for espresso, but ask them to grind 50% one click finer than the espresso setting on their ditting and the other 50% 2 clicks finer than their espresso setting. Make sure they go finer and not coarser. One of these two halves will be pretty much spot on for your classic, bioth of them should produce a significantly slower pour. One of them will give you an acceptable shot of coffee. you of course need to put the right amount of ground coffee in the basket, so a general rule of thumb with the classic is to fill the double basket with coffee, then level off the top of the basket with a flat blade, now tamp the coffee firm but not too firm ensuring the coffee is even in the basket. Try that it should take approximately 25 to 30 seconds for a 2 ounce shot with crema.

good luck

ps your routine was not far out, but the coffe was just way too coarse, it has to be for espresso not filter.........


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## urbanbumpkin

Great advice Coffee Chap, that's a really good idea for someone starting up without a grinder.

It's really frustrating when it's not working, I hope you haven't been put off the Classic. I'm affraid the road to espresso is paved with disapointments (as I've learned) but there's some good advice on this forum.


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## Glenn

Did you let your machine heat up for about 30 minutes?

Try 16g also.

The Gaggia Classic baskets favour more than 14g


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## chimpsinties

What made you change from bean to cup to Classic? Once you nail it you'll be getting 10x better espresso don't worry. Didn't you realise that you pretty much need a decent grinder when using a Classic?

What made you think making coffee wasn't rocket science? Haha!


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## autopilot

The classic is quirky and needs taming, but as posted above, the coffee is the problem. An espresso is not a metal filter, but I have seen people make that mistake before.

If you don't have a grinder, the best coffee in the Classic is illy red - I could not get any other pre ground 'espresso' to pour well.


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## reneb

agree re illy red as a stop gap if you can't get the starbucks beans ground right. best option for the classic i could find before i got a grinder.


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## drgekko

Wow. Excellent advice - will save my coffee grounds to use with the aeropress.

Another silly question here - can I grind my coarse ground coffee further in a grinder??? Or once ground, is that it?


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## chimpsinties

No I wouldn't do that if I were you. It'll clog up every little gap on the way down to the grinder where usually beans will not go.


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## Big Tony

As a starter.... Try timing your shots as well. Don't get too hung up on it but if you can, try timing 2oz in around 30 seconds. This will give you something to aim for.

people will tell you that making coffee is all about variables and bringing them together time after time in exactly the same way. As an example, I always do the following:

1. Weigh 18g of beans

2. Warm the Gaggia Classic for 30 minutes

3. Grind and tamp at 30lb of pressure (measured on my click mat). Tamp pressure is one of the most important things in my opinion.

4. Purge 2-3 seconds of water from the coffee machine and then attach the portafilter

5. Place my shot pitcher on top of a set of scales underneath the group head (or mouth as you referred to it)

6. Get my stopwatch ready and click start at exactly the same time as clicking the brew switch.

7. If your grinds are right, the machine will run for approx 2-3 seconds without any coffee appearing. It will then start to appear in a steady trickle

8. If you haven't used scales under your shot glass then you shout be aiming for 2oz in around 27 seconds. If you do use scales then for 18g, you should be looking at a weight of 28g ish in 27-33 seconds. Does that make sense?

all of the above sounds quite anal but trust me, once you are in a routine it'll take a few minutes to make a nice coffee. The reason for all of the above is because if you drink a naff coffee you'll be able to narrow it down to the issue.

as an example, if you do all of the above and the shot comes out in 15 seconds, you'll know that you just need to grind your coffee finer. If you don't tamp to the same pressure every time then the problem could be the coffee grind OR the tamp pressure. Does that make sense?

if it helps, I'll make you a video using my Gaggia Classic so you can see what I mean. Just let me know


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## Big Tony

drgekko said:


> Wow. Excellent advice - will save my coffee grounds to use with the aeropress.
> 
> Another silly question here - can I grind my coarse ground coffee further in a grinder??? Or once ground, is that it?


It really isn't a silly question mate. I tried it once... And no, it doesn't work. All of the grinds just clog the burrs


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## jeebsy

Big Tony said:


> 1. Weigh 18g of beans
> 
> 2. Warm the Gaggia Classic for 30 minutes
> 
> 3. Grind and tamp at 30lb of pressure (measured on my click mat). Tamp pressure is one of the most important things in my opinion.
> 
> 4. Purge 2-3 seconds of water from the coffee machine and then attach the portafilter
> 
> 5. Place my shot pitcher on top of a set of scales underneath the group head (or mouth as you referred to it)
> 
> 6. Get my stopwatch ready and click start at exactly the same time as clicking the brew switch.
> 
> 7. If your grinds are right, the machine will run for approx 2-3 seconds without any coffee appearing. It will then start to appear in a steady trickle
> 
> 8. If you haven't used scales under your shot glass then you shout be aiming for 2oz in around 27 seconds. If you do use scales then for 18g, you should be looking at a weight of 28g ish in 27-33 seconds. Does that make sense?


This is pretty much my routine.

I've been using bathroom scales to tamp on so I can see how much pressure is being applied but getting it level is something I struggle with. Using the ridge on the basket as a guide it can be way off sometimes but that's probably just practice.

Also sometimes it's 6-10 seconds before I start getting any liquid...that's when panic stations usually start but by about 27 seconds it's about right in terms of weight.


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## drgekko

Following everyone's helpful advice, I picked up Illy espresso today (red tin) and tried the gaggia. This time it was a slower trickle and at last I saw crema with some ??tiger striping (is that the correct nomencleture?). I used a single cup so it filled within 13 seconds or so. BUT I don't like the taste - it's a bit too tangy for my liking. I prefer a much darker, bolder flavour. Now this was just a quick tryout - next time, I shall be more methodical and actually measure out 16.5g, allow the gaggia to warm up 30 minutes. Is the portafilter meant for 2 cups?. There's a smaller metal cup thingy that fits in it - is this for single cup?


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## forzajuve

drgekko said:


> Following everyone's helpful advice, I picked up Illy espresso today (red tin) and tried the gaggia. This time it was a slower trickle and at last I saw crema with some ??tiger striping (is that the correct nomencleture?). I used a single cup so it filled within 13 seconds or so. BUT I don't like the taste - it's a bit too tangy for my liking. I prefer a much darker, bolder flavour. Now this was just a quick tryout - next time, I shall be more methodical and actually measure out 16.5g, allow the gaggia to warm up 30 minutes. Is the portafilter meant for 2 cups?. There's a smaller metal cup thingy that fits in it - is this for single cup?


Tangy could be sourness if you are not allowing the machine to heat up properly. The easiest way I found to move forward quicker was to watch some videos of how others do it. Loads of vids on YouTube and also on this forum for example on this thread from another beginner (at the time).


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## autopilot

'Tangy' is not something I would not associate with illy red. IMO, It's a smooth/rich/chocolatey medium roast coffee. A pretty generic flavour designed to please as many people as posible. Bland and unexciting, but satisfying enough (I drink it at work using my Aeropress when I don't have time to pregrind at home).

I suggest what your finding is its a bit 'sour', which is a classic symptom of under extraction. Which a 13 pour would likely give you.

Try 18g and tamping harder.

Also, what basket are you using? The pressurised one that usually comes as standard?


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## HDAV

Try illy black dark roast espresso in tesco if using the pressurised basket single hole in underside make sure the plastic insert is in portafilter. Fill level and tamp down hard so just locks into place.


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## drgekko

Thanks for the suggestion guys - yes, "sour" is exactly how Illy red tastes for me. More questions for you regarding the jargon...

1. What's a "13 pour"?

2. What is a "basket"? (and how do I tell whether it's pressurised or not?)

3. The portafilter "basket" has 2 curved aqueduct thingies from which the coffee trickles out - I don't have a single spout.

4. If a new basket is required, how do I replace it? With the accessories, there's a smaller, less deep metal "basket-type-thing" which fits into the main portafilter basket snugly - no idea what this is.

3.


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## jeebsy

13 pour refers to your pour taking 13 seconds.

The basket is the thing in your portafilter that holds the grinds. If it's pressurised it'll have one hole on the bottom like this:










Whereas an unpressurised basket will have lots of wee holes all over the bottom.

To replace it pop the existing basket out and pop in the new basket.


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## Yes Row

^ just for clarity

Un-pressurised has lots of wee holes


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## HDAV

Was your classic new? If so should have 2 baskets single and double shot, also a manual that explains the change over process. Pressurised is better for pre ground coffee, and make sure the plastic insert is under the basket in portafilter.


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## drgekko

HDAV said:


> Was your classic new? If so should have 2 baskets single and double shot, also a manual that explains the change over process. Pressurised is better for pre ground coffee, and make sure the plastic insert is under the basket in portafilter.


No, I purchased it second hand from Shakey on these classifieds. There are indeed two baskets, one is about double the depth of the other one - not sure how to replace them but will check out a pdf manual if available (no manuals came with this). Regarding the plastic insert - what is this??? Don't think I've seen it. I reckon I need a practical tutorial at home or at least a decent video to watch regarding this.


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## urbanbumpkin

The pressurised basket and widget look like this, sorry couldn't upload a photo.

see http://www.select2gether.com/gaggia-pressurized-filter-basket

The widget is really easy to lose, mine nearly ended up down the sink the first time I used it. But you do need it for the pressurised basket


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## series530

I found that, as a novice, the illy red coffee is pretty good and it works well in the Gaggia Classic irrespective of having a pressurised or a non pressurised basket.

I found though, that having tried better quality coffee, ground myself, using the classic and with a non pressurised basket, that the illy ground weakness come through in abundance.

Your technique, to my mind, is fine. I would err toward 18g or coffee and make sure that I use the larger of the two baskets. The smaller one is designed for single shots and is always a compromise. If you dont want a double shot, just stick your cup under one spout, accept that you will be wasting coffee and let the other spout drain out into the drip tray.

Personally, I would buy a non pressurised basket at the earliest opportunity. A fiver will secure a decent enough one, just flip the existing basket out with the edge of a tea spoon and push the new one in - making sure that you remove the (im)perfect crema device (the little black blob that sits under the basket in the porta filter) if it is there.

The illy coffee, I always found, was ground about right and you can then hone your technique with regard to dosing the porta filter at the correct level using it.

The Gaggia is a great machine and a huge number of people have one. I always found it to be very forgiving. I started that way and only moved on because we favour milk based coffees and a single boiler design without a heat exchanger was too much of a compromise for us.


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## HDAV

Have a look at this


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## drgekko

HDAV said:


> Have a look at this


Great demo - in fact, I just worked things out just prior to watching this. The second hand unit I own only came with two non-pressurised, commercial units, one for single shot and the other for double shot. There's no black crema-thingy. Just made a single shot using the smaller basket and indeed, the trickle is considerably slower, taking around 27 seconds. I much prefer drinking double shots so I'll use the larger basket as default.

I still dislike the Illy taste however - it's just too sour for my preference. I need tobacco dark roast!!


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## autopilot

drgekko said:


> Thanks for the suggestion guys - yes, "sour" is exactly how Illy red tastes for me. More questions for you regarding the jargon...
> 
> 1. What's a "13 pour"?


Sorry, yes that was meant to be "13 second pour".


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## HDAV

drgekko said:


> I still dislike the Illy taste however - it's just too sour for my preference. I need tobacco dark roast!!


the pressurised basket is recomended for the pre ground i use http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B007PDDDWC/ref=asc_df_B007PDDDWC13440766?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=cfukweb-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22206&creativeASIN=B007PDDDWC

rather than

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Illy-Classic-Roast-Ground-Coffee/dp/B00A14WFQ2/ref=pd_sim_grocery_4


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## drgekko

Today I managed to make a simple double espresso which I really enjoyed, following some useful tips by my fellow forumites. Thank you all very much indeed! A few other things helped - having a light workout in the morning, a healthy smoothie for brekkie and feeling refreshed after a shower and basking in the lovely sunshine! It all adds to enjoying a lovely espresso anyway! Lol. Now I wish to taste better coffee....


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