# Ignorance was bliss...now what do I do? - Upgraditus



## sjdavies47 (Jun 29, 2014)

So, I have had a gaggia classic and rancilio rocky for the past 5 years and have been broadly happy with both. Since reading this forum for a couple of weeks I have already upgraded the steam wand and invested in a new tamper and filter basket. Now upgraditus has hit again, so grinder or machine?

I have £350 to spend, am happy with used and have 40cms to play with between the counter and cupboards. What should I do?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Grinder - definitely.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What's making you want to upgrade ? Speed of making drinks ? Quality of shots ?

Milk steaming power ? Shinyitius ( that's ok too , I have it in spades







)


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I'm thinking of upgrading my machine on about the same budget. My biggest issue is making more than one drink as well as the steam power. And if I want to make 3 or 4 for guests it's a bit embarrassing how long it takes!

I'm quite happy with my grinder, it will need upgrading but at the moment it suits fine. My plan is upgrade machine to an HX, then upgrade grinder to something really good (no idea what yet), then eventually upgrade machine again to something long long terms. Then upgrade..... And so on


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## sjdavies47 (Jun 29, 2014)

Reasons for upgrading would be (in order)

1. Shinyitus, assuming that (technique allowing) that new kit will provide a better output

2.. Slight annoyance at single boiler limitations, if making more than one drink.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dependant on what you buy a bigger burr,stepless grinder ,should give you more in the cup taste and value.

Probably won't be shiny and as glamorous as a new machine and defo won't help you steam quicker....


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Might I be so forward as to suggest a double boiler







(Blatant self promotion) I do happen to have one to sell in the For Sale section lol.

Ian


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The biggest differences I have seen in the quality of my coffee have come from grinder upgrades not from machine upgrades, with £350 and provided you aren't averse to using a doser you should be more or less able to afford a Mazzer Royal, which would then see you through future upgrades.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

A good grinder is always going to be a sound investment , however although you can produce great coffee with a classic , a step up of machine is going to bring a lot more consistency and ease in producing great and repeatable coffee.

£350 should get you cracking secondhand grinder, don't really know if it will be enough to get a replacement machine .


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## Lighty (May 31, 2013)

Tricky one!

i was in a similar boat a while back.

Going classic to my hx was a big step - couldn't believe the steam power and speed

i also went from a rancilio to a k30 and again WOW

my wife and I drink milk based 95% of the time so espresso wasn't the sole driver

i love the doserless grinder and the flavours it can produce

I'll be keeping the k30 unless I come into a wedge!

the hx is trickier - I always wanted a rocket and then nearly spent stupid money on a lever!

once you join here it's a slippery slope - you'll be selling the car to fund an L1 & EK43 soon trust me ...


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Second that. And shinyitis is infectious, caught by exchanging fluids with other forum members! A few months ago I had a blade grinder and a DeLonghi Crappolatto. Then an MC2, then a pimped Classic, now I have a Mazzer Mini, secretly wish I'd bought the Classic's previous owner's SJ, and am now lusting after a Brewtus or suchlike, simply because I think they look cool and might make it easier for me to get better results than I deserve considering how long I have (n't) been doing this. Where will it all end? If I sold my car I'd just about get a used Brewtus, I must be mental! Mmmh, shiny...


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Whatever machine and grinder combo you own, you still have to get the basics right, so grind level and distribution are still key elements whatever you own. A fancy shiny machine offers you consistency but a grinder upgrade affects the results in the cup far more, on a budget of £350 unless you get lucky or can actually afford to push your budget a littler further e.g. Lighty's Isomac Mondiale in the for sale sub forum for just over £400 is a lovely looking machine, that said going to a better grinder will improve the flavours of your coffee a lot more than a new machine. Earlier in the year I had my Sage Dual Boiler paired with an RR55 OD generally accepted to be one of the best of the 64mm burr equipped grinders, I upgraded that to a Mythos and found that the leap forward in results was just as big as when I went from a Classic and MC2 to the Classic and the RR55. Basically if you think about it the grinder prepares your ingredient for brewing and the better the grinder, the better the results in the cup.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

I've seen a mahoosive difference in the quailty and colour of crema and "non-sourness" of shot by simply changing over to a strada basket (I've got both 14g and 17g and seem to have found a sweet spot at 15g updosed into the 14g basket using a really heavy nutating tamp like what Matt Perger does)

£15 from coffeehit.

I'm doing back to back shots with the original basket and the strada basket and the difference is astounding. I can even smell the sourness of the product coming through the standard basket.

I've got a mignon grinder fwiw with an OPV'd classic (with a silvia wand).

Cheers

Dave


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## sjdavies47 (Jun 29, 2014)

I would love the isomac on the fs board, it is a thing of beauty. Unfortunately it is too tall to fit under my units.

Seems to be a head (grinder) vrs heart (machine). Guess the only true solution is one of each :+?


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I'm totally with you SJD! Tempted by that Isomac but not sure I could fit it in my tiny kitchen corner. Slightly put off by the drippy tap and how much to fix but that's why he's offering it at such a good price. It looks wallet-looseningly lovely compared to the GC.

Isn't a Strada basket basically a VST with a Strada logo and a name that's -1g from its identical VST equivalent?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

hotmetal said:


> Isn't a Strada basket basically a VST with a Strada logo and a name that's -1g from its identical VST equivalent?


I know the Marzocco ones are the same by design. I think the key difference with VST's is the guaranteed quality because of the testing process they go through. I don't know how much this is necessary and how much is marketing fluff however.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

LM Strada baskets undergo the same quality control VSTs do.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Yes that's most likely true. I'm under the impression that LM baskets are indeed made by VST. Might be wrong but I got the idea from the Knock website.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

hotmetal said:


> Yes that's most likely true. I'm under the impression that LM baskets are indeed made by VST. Might be wrong but I got the idea from the Knock website.


The baskets are a joint venture between VST and LM Marzocco.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The Systemic Kid said:


> The baskets are a joint venture between VST and LM Marzocco.


Is it right to say the VST ones are more expensive due to the QC?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Is it right to say the VST ones are more expensive due to the QC?


LM Strada undergo same QC check as VST with a 'pass' certificate supplied with each basket.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Is it right to say the VST ones are more expensive due to the QC?


The Strada baskets go through the same QC as VST baskets and come with a printout the same as VST baskets do, Coffeehit do sell some LM baskets that don't undergo the QC process but they should be obvious as they are a lot cheaper than Strada and VST baskets.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Yea I think I had heard it in a thread about the coffeehit ones.

Bit confusing that LM do baskets that both go through QC and ones that dont.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I seem to remember a thread about a year ago which categorised the differences of these as three tiers. Unfortunately I can't find the thread or remember the detailed specifics. Sorry....completely unhelpful


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Yea I think I had heard it in a thread about the coffeehit ones.
> 
> Bit confusing that LM do baskets that both go through QC and ones that dont.


It is LM range are stock baskets. LM Strada are product of joint collaboration with VST. If you check both ranges, you will see VST offer ridgeless - LM Strada don't. VST offer an 18grm basket, for example - Strada's is 17 grm. All designed to create some 'difference' between the two ranges.


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## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

Both my strada baskets came with the photo certificate. I ordered 17g one from madebyknock with a heft tamper and lippy tamp mat as a deal. I ordered 14g one from coffeehit.

I should probably take a pic!

The difference in colour and texture of crema is pretty obvious. More so after a minute or two. I suggested the basket upgrade as a cheap improvement to the quality of shot that comes out of the Gaggia Classic.


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