# Cut teeth on entry level machines?



## uberrich (Feb 10, 2016)

Hi Coffee Gurus!

In the next couple of months I'm planning on entering the espresso game. There's certainly a lot to learn and I'm reading as much as I can. I have a quick question that I think would be worth getting an answer for now so that I can concentrate my research in the right areas. Hope you can help!

So, I think I can afford to skip the entry level machines (e.g. Gaggia Classic & Rancilio Silvia) and maybe start with an HX machine (e.g. Fracino Cherub, Expobar Office Leva) or maybe really stretch myself to a low end dual boiler. Is this a sensible approach for a newbie or is there merit in cutting one's teeth and learning the ropes on one of the aforementioned entry level machines?

Thanks!

Rich.


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

It all depends on what you want. I launched straight into la spaz S1 and super jolly but had training first and the opportunity to try out the machine. When it arrived I felt fairly confident (plus I'd done loads of research on the forum too) and got really good results from the outset.

You haven't mentioned a grinder. Have you had any thoughts? Grinder is probs more important than machine


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with entering with a decent bit of kit, but remember, you might own a Porsche but it does not make you a racing driver. Whatever you own, you still have to understand how to make or build a shot and as mentioned, the grinder is moreimgportant than the machine


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

uberrich said:


> So, I think I can afford to skip the entry level machines (e.g. Gaggia Classic & Rancilio Silvia) and maybe start with an HX machine (e.g. Fracino Cherub, Expobar Office Leva) or maybe really stretch myself to a low end dual boiler. Is this a sensible approach for a newbie


Yes



uberrich said:


> is there merit in cutting one's teeth and learning the ropes on one of the aforementioned entry level machines?


No


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

If you have the option then go for something good like the machines you mentioned. Don't scrimp on the grinder though!!!


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

A better machine should make things easier so personally I wouldn't waste time nor money on lower end machines. It can be seriously frustrating!

Have you budgeted for a grinder though?


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## Jiiim (Jan 5, 2016)

(And I say this as a guy with a low end machine, saving for something better)


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Agree with the above. More money on grinder means better tasting coffee (assuming you don't cock it up). If you can afford to jump in at the deep end machine wise it saves you a whole load of hassle. Good coffee can be made on budget kit but it takes practice, skill and a bit of luck. A bigger machine will remove a lot of the temperature fluctuations, plus you'll have decent steaming power if you want milky drinks. There is no reason to learn temp surfing on a Classic if you can afford a dual boiler. I didn't have a big budget so I did the whole Classic/MC2 thing but soon realised the crack and saved up and waited for the opportunity to upgrade 'once and for all' (yeah right...) OK maybe not quite as upgraditis can strike at any time but if I had to answer this in 2 words I'd say what jeebsy said - from personal experience.

You still have to learn the ropes even with good gear but it's easier and less frustrating. The Porsche analogy is quite good - dropping £3k on gear won't make you WBC champ overnight but it would take an awful lot of learning and talent to win an F1 race in a Lada.

In the words of Monty Python, you lucky lucky. ... ?


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## uberrich (Feb 10, 2016)

Wow! Thanks for all the responses - swift and informed. This is clearly a great resource. 

I hadn't meant to come on here bragging that I've got 'loadsa money' and I just want to buy my way to great espresso, so apologies if that's how I came across. I completely understand that I'm still going to be a total novice and will need to learn and practice like everyone else entering this game. I'm just pleased I've discovered this forum. 

And thanks for the reminders regarding the grinder. Not scrimping on this element of the setup is something that's definitely been drummed into me by this site and others!!

I'll be back with more questions once I've done a bit more research.

Thanks again

Rich.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

No worries - I don't think anyone thinks you're being flash (er well apart from your forum name maybe but that's quite funny if your name is Rich!)

There are people making great coffee on tiny budgets, people rocking unbelievable setups and everyone in between. If you can afford to skip the entry level kit you're not really cheating or missing out on any rite of passage. And you'll still get plenty of help from everyone regardless. I don't really feel 'worthy' of my kit sometimes but it's so much easier to get a nice drink almost every time since I dug deep. Enjoy!


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

+1 on all the above and if it helps a quick order of priorties for budget:

1- decent grinder (with good distribution)

=2 machine

=2 skill / training

=2 water ( bottled / filtered / in line filtered etc NOT Tap unless your water softer than a fairies wings)

=2 good quality beans

=2 scales (means to measure in and out by weight not volume)

=2 tamper (plastic is not the way to go; from cheap to stupid, find one that works for you)

everything else is incremental to a point and the above is super simplistic / full of holes / up for being shot down etc but only meant to show how important a decent grinder / good distribution is in the grand scheme of things.

If had to do it again, would i want to learn all about temp surfing a silvia and wdt / other distribution techniques I had to do with my first grinder (rocky) , no, would have saved up and bought the Mythos and Conti Lever straight off the bat, saving mysef a few sinkers in the process.

Having said all of the above am always amazed at the results a lot of forum members get out of Classics etc so perhaps they are in fact the smarter ones









John


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## 2bor2bru (Mar 7, 2016)

Being a new member myself, and being in a similar position, I just want to say I fully agree with the comments around getting the grinder and the coffee beans right. I can see this coffeeitis is very contagious and can be both costly, time consuming, and downright frustrating at times. (Sounds a bit like golf). After reading about upgraditis, it appears that one could also be left with a feeling that there is some additional coffee taste element that is missing. Some great challenges ahead.


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