# Which machine ..... A Vesuvius or a Linea Mini (Poll)



## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

*Which machine do I keep, A Vesuvius or a Linea Mini*​
Vesuvius1854.55%La Marzocco Linea Mini1545.45%


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Now this seems very Deja Vu (@Matbat).

I have both machines. Just acquired the LMLM in a deal I couldn't really refuse.

So, I have been given three weeks to decided which I can keep, as unfortunately I am not allowed both, which is mean, but I guess fair enough.

I haven't even pulled a shot with the LM yet, will be doing that later. But I love the V. In fact I really love it. Its easy, despite having technicalities built into it, but is an extremely capable machine as I think most would agree. I have only ever had one issue with the V, and that was a recent pressure release via the release valve, which has since resolved after a clean of said valve, but still, Jordan from BB has another on route to me as I would prefer to get a new one in-case it is for any reason on the way out.

Anyway........... I have set a poll.......ignoring the previous results from Matbats. I will however decide purely on how much I like the usability, the results and taste in the cup from the machines after the 3 weeks, and go from there. But thought I may as well get you lot involved for some fun first.

Pics to follow..


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)




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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

I would say both are very capable but one is style over substance and one is very much substance over style (will leave you to work out which is which so as not to upset any devoted owners, and yes have used both)

Is all about what's in the cup if you distillate it down and not too concerned about looks / brands









John


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Keep the V. The LM is the wrong shade of white for your cupboard doors.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

in just over 4 years, plus time with the prototype, I have enjoyed my Vesuvius. That said I have never used a LMLM and I suppose have not felt the desire to or any other machine, the V does more than I need and is very temp stable according to my test equipment. I suspect the poll will reflect positive owners opinions for both machines and aspirations of non owners. Now of course I do have machines acquired since the V and a Duetto as well, but those are in my collection for various reasons. I always seem to go back to the V. I usually have two machine running and will probably tend to keep the Minima and the V in main service and the other machines as backups/collectibles.

I suppose Espresso machines are a bit like cars (or other things) although you might look at a porche, ferrari, Tesla, whatever floats your boat you're not really interested buying one. Once you start taking them out for test drives, wandering around dealerships and perhaps even buying one to compare with your existing car....perhaps you already subconsciously have made the decision. Certainly if you were happy with your car, the test drive, purchase etc.. wouldn't have happened. The problem is however much someone might even realise they have done this, it doesn't matter, that itch needs to be scratched. A lot of people need to own a porche or BMW i3 or whatever for a while to realise whether that sort of car is for them. or not. Some won't have anything else, others don't like the bills or reliability and go back to a Honda or something similar.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Keep Vesuvius, LM are nice machines yet wrongly priced. V is full ss with lots of unique features, LMLM has a saturated group only.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Have you tried a different grinder with V or LMLM (when it comes on)?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Depends on what you like in a machine. Do you want something you can adjust to suit different beans and get the most of out them or a one trick pony that looks nice (in some peoples opinions).

As far as I understand it, the LM might as well have a switch on the front as the paddle does sod all except click on or off? Now if it operated like a Slayer and you could go between pre-infusion and full pressure then that's different.

On the other hand it's nice to have something that takes another variable out of the equation and does what it does very well. Personally I'd get rid of both and buy a Londinium and an EK43


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

You have all so far made valid points, and as much as I love style, I am very much substance over style, so Ill be running a few comparisons, all like for like and will see what I like best.

As for alternate grinders, I still have use of a Mazzer SJ, a Mini and a friends Compak K8. If I needed something else im sure I can just start asking politely on here.

But to put it all into perspective, as much as I would love an LR, the layout of my kitchen and the cupboards above all units doesnt make it aesthetically appealing to the better half so that may hinder that alternative. (The pictures I have taken is not where the machine sits unfortunately.)

As for a grinder upgrade, one of the main reasons im attending the forum day is to trial a few (and to meet you all ofcourse), I have already checked to confirm an EK will be there as its a strong possibility for the near future, unless someone fancies flogging a Monolith Flat.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Both monoliths will be there!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

If a Flat came up I would be on it like a tramp on chips. If I was tempted maybe a L.R. The V is more is good machine. And Can't get to the lever day I don't drive or I would be coming. Unless the LM was 1K keep both


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Planter said:


> But to put it all into perspective, as much as I would love an LR, the layout of my kitchen and the cupboards above all units doesnt make it aesthetically appealing to the better half so that may hinder that alternative. (The pictures I have taken is not where the machine sits unfortunately.


I have the same problem. The only way I could possibly accomodate a lever (without some serious remodeling) is if it were easily removable.


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## itn (Jul 6, 2008)

Im just jealous that youre in a lucky position to choose between the two machines. Id have either anyday. Enjoy, and choose wisely.

Mo


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ashcroc said:


> I have the same problem. The only way I could possibly accomodate a lever (without some serious remodeling) is if it were easily removable.


You just unscrew it!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Back to the question, get rid of the ugly thing, you have to look at it everyday!


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Back to the question, get rid of the ugly thing, you have to look at it everyday!


Haha, this is true.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Either way, I look forward to your side by side comparrison & seeing which fits better with your workflow.


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

coffeechap said:


> Back to the question, get rid of the ugly thing, you have to look at it everyday!


Are you referring to Niche


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Either way, I look forward to your side by side comparrison & seeing which fits better with your workflow.


I am looking forward to playing to be honest.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

HowardSmith said:


> Are you referring to Niche


I must admit, its not my ideal looking grinder, but the function makes it worth it for me (at present).


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

not used either whats the heat up times for each until ready ?

- I have to say I prefer the looks of the LM


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> not used either whats the heat up times for each until ready ?
> 
> - I have to say I prefer the looks of the LM


The V is about 20-25 mins I find, although as with all can be slightly manipulated. I normally just use the smart plug and give it 30 mins. As for the LM, I genuinely dont know.

Maybe someone can chime in with the LM warm up time.....


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

Planter said:


> The V is about 20-25 mins I find, although as with all can be slightly manipulated. I normally just use the smart plug and give it 30 mins. As for the LM, I genuinely dont know.
> 
> Maybe someone can chime in with the LM warm up time.....


Well now that someone else has admitted they like the looks of the LM I suppose I can step up too without being shot!

I have to admit from the front I love the looks of the LM. It has that classic linea look that I really like... from the side it looks like they ran out of time & had to get it out to the supplies so left it as is.

The V has features that for me right now would be a waste of time & mental energy.

If the LM was a volumetrics machine then I would be very keep to keep my eye on the used market.

From the videos I have seen I did hear something like the LM being ready to go in 10 mins (i suppose the saturated group helps). Not sure exactly what that translates to in the real world but for me who has a few drinks a day & often has visitors drop in on weekends a 10 min warm up is a strong selling point if it is correct.

I have also heard the LM is rock solid temperature wise. My understanding being it is basically a heat exchanger with a second boiler on top of the group which then fine tunes the temp as the water flows through it, effectively giving it a little boost as required.

Keep the V... I will take the LM off your hands. Plus it would go better in my kitchen (white doors).


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

HowardSmith said:


> Well now that someone else has admitted they like the looks of the LM I suppose I can step up too without being shot!
> 
> I have to admit from the front I love the looks of the LM. It has that classic linea look that I really like... from the side it looks like they ran out of time & had to get it out to the supplies so left it as is.
> 
> ...


A true gent, helping me out there and offering to take it off me. Ha. But yes, most of what youve said I believe is true. There is a way of making the switch on the front into a pressure profile style lever as such, albeit quite an expensive modification, but has had decent results in the US.


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

Talk about a first world problem









I'd be inclined to go for the V over the LM -- I adore the styling on the LM, but I tend to go for bells and whistles when given the choice.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

lhavelund said:


> Talk about a first world problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It isnt a bad position to be in. I must admit.


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

Planter said:


> It isnt a bad position to be in. I must admit.


The term 'F**king Ba**ard' comes to mind if I'm honest... lol


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

HowardSmith said:


> The term 'F**king Ba**ard' comes to mind if I'm honest... lol


Haha, very polite of you to blank out the key bits.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Planter said:


> But to put it all into perspective, as much as I would love an LR, the layout of my kitchen and the cupboards above all units doesnt make it aesthetically appealing to the better half so that may hinder that alternative. (The pictures I have taken is not where the machine sits unfortunately.)


I didn't have space for the LR in my kitchen either, so I'm setting up a little coffee corner in my lounge









Where there's a will there's a way!


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Fez said:


> I didn't have space for the LR in my kitchen either, so I'm setting up a little coffee corner in my lounge
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is dedication to the cause. I however have a pretty defined lounge AV system and as much as I love coffee, a coffee corner would upset my setup considerably. But I do get your point.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

First ever shot in the LM.

Ran a bit quick. But havn't changed any grinder settings for what I was running on the V. This shot was 18g in 38.2 out in 26.

Was a little sour but drinkable for a first effort. Will fine it up in a bit and see what I can do to adapt. Kept this one as a shot as didn't want to dilute with milk. But did try steam power for a hot chocolate last night and it was more than sufficient.

I'll keep the info coming. If you want it.


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Very hard for a thread like this to be objective, CC hates the look of the Niche (hope that doesn't overshadow what it brings at it's price point, for me the white is more subtle). Some folks like the look of the LM, it's an eyesore to me, like a badly out of date piece of mechano and it's easy for the thread to become a poll of what we find 'acceptable' in our kitchen. But I guess you could invite a few folk around adept at pulling shots and let them puill shots for you back to back on the LM and the V using different grinders for a true blind taste test. And a large spitoon if you don't want to be on the ceiling for hours! Sounds like you've got a good plan though, use them over several days with different grinders to learn to live with them and find your preference.

The thread shows one thing though, a healthy variety of opinion and kit which gives enjoyment and I suspect those if us with opposing views would still have a decent coffee in each other's litchens and a good chat, it's not a Model T community!


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

PaulL said:


> Very hard for a thread like this to be objective, CC hates the look of the Niche (hope that doesn't overshadow what it brings at it's price point, for me the white is more subtle). Some folks like the look of the LM, it's an eyesore to me, like a badly out of date piece of mechano and it's easy for the thread to become a poll of what we find 'acceptable' in our kitchen. But I guess you could invite a few folk around adept at pulling shots and let them puill shots for you back to back on the LM and the V using different grinders for a true blind taste test. And a large spitoon if you don't want to be on the ceiling for hours! Sounds like you've got a good plan though, use them over several days with different grinders to learn to live with them and find your preference.
> 
> The thread shows one thing though, a healthy variety of opinion and kit which gives enjoyment and I suspect those if us with opposing views would still have a decent coffee in each other's litchens and a good chat, it's not a Model T community!


Yes, totally agree with what youre saying. In all fairness, I'll go with whichever I find works best for me. As I said, Ive always loved the V. So I know what it can do. Im keen to see what the simplicity of the LM can offer. I may be pleasantly surprised, or I may be totally put off by he lack of adjustability that I have with the V.

Either way, Ill run it as fairly as I can and decide from there.


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## tonerei (Aug 3, 2017)

Sorry the LM in white I think is really not a nice look. The yellow colour is not nice either at all imho. I am surprised how ordinary the LM looks beside the V. I had plumbed for the LM in Matbats poll but looking at them side by side I would think the V looks way better. Didn't realise the LM was that small. Maybe in SS it would be more of a toss up in looks.

Colours work I think for Lacanche cookers but not for a coffee machine as basic as the Linea Mini. Big problem also is the price difference. I am biased as I now have a Vesuvius but unless the quality of the LM is way ahead of the V I can't see the logic.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

tonerei said:


> Sorry the LM in white I think is really not a nice look. The yellow colour is not nice at all imho. I am surprised how ordinary the LM looks beside the V. I had plumbed for the LM in Matbats poll but looking at them side by side I would think the V looks way better. Didn't realise the LM was that small. Maybe in SS it would be more of a toss up in looks.
> 
> Colours work I think for Lacanche cookers but not for a coffee machine as basic as the Linea Mini. Big problem also is the price difference. I am biased as I now have a Vesuvius but unless the quality of the LM is way ahead of the V I can't see the logic.


The quality of both machines is extremely high, and I must admit the white of the LM is actually very nice. In fact, because its matt, its very easy to keep clean, whereas stainless/chrome is extremely difficult to keep looking clean. I find the more I clean the V, the worse I make it look.

But, for the purposes of the chosen machine, the looks haven't actually got a huge amount to do with it. I will happily have either sat on the worktop. I just need to keep playing to see which one it is.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

One more point : La Marzocco maintenance cost is higher than V(E61)


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

The LM would quite possibly be easier to sell on too due to the rarity of them on the for sale section board.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

L&R said:


> One more point : La Marzocco maintenance cost is higher than V(E61)


True, I have noted the additional cost of gaskets etc. But hoping any maintenance would be routine stuff and therefore not significant, as I do try and look after all of my belongings.


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

I'm complely biased since I own a V - but the LMLM would not be going in my kitchen. (A GS3? maybe. Nah, not even that one. If you go for simplicity, go for a Londinium and remove a cabinet.)


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## MrOrk (Apr 17, 2018)

Planter said:


> First ever shot in the LM.
> 
> Ran a bit quick. But havn't changed any grinder settings for what I was running on the V. This shot was 18g in 38.2 out in 26.
> 
> ...


Out of interest, what profile are you using on the Vesuvius? A perfusion then straight 9bar? Cheers


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tohenk2 said:


> I'm complely biased since I own a V - but the LMLM would not be going in my kitchen. (A GS3? maybe. Nah, not even that one. If you go for simplicity, go for a Londinium and remove a cabinet.)


I agree entirely, but as I posted at the beginning of the thread, surely the decision was made the moment the LMLM arrived in the kitchen?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

tohenk2 said:


> I'm complely biased since I own a V - but the LMLM would not be going in my kitchen. (A GS3? maybe. Nah, not even that one. If you go for simplicity, go for a Londinium and remove a cabinet.)


As I said I can't remove a cabinet. It would look silly in my kitchen. But a LR would be lovely to try.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I agree entirely, but as I posted at the beginning of the thread, surely the decision was made the moment the LMLM arrived in the kitchen?


Dave, totally understand why you say that. If you're happy why look elsewhere type situation.

Well this machine came to me by chance. Was a decent price and I just thought there is no harm in trying it. I always give everything a chance. And would never make a rash decision hence giving myself some play time.

As for the machines. As I've already mentioned I love the V. So will not be dismissing it. At present I have absolutely no thoughts of removing it from its current position.


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

Any more playing time with the LM?

Heat up time? Did you work that out?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

MrOrk said:


> Out of interest, what profile are you using on the Vesuvius? A perfusion then straight 9bar? Cheers


Nope. Only used that as one of the first ever pulls of a shot. Since then have used multiples but currently use what is described as a L1 profile.

2 bar for 10 seconds. Then 9,8,7,6,5,4 bar all for 5 seconds. Total 40 seconds.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

HowardSmith said:


> Any more playing time with the LM?
> 
> Heat up time? Did you work that out?


Not as such. Had it all on and just left it so didn't really play with warm ups. Or if I'm honest I just forgot and used it when I remembered.


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## Les996 (Jan 8, 2019)

Probably not worthy of voting because I totally lack knowledge when it comes to the LMLM, but I have fell in love with the look of the Vesuvius and if I had the money I would be buying one tomorrow...So in hindsight I should have voted for the other in the hope I could buy your 'V' at an amazing deal...


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## tohenk2 (Oct 11, 2017)

Planter said:


> As I said I can't remove a cabinet. It would look silly in my kitchen. But a LR would be lovely to try.


Maybe you can put a LR somewhere else on display? Or put the cabinets on different heights if removing one is out - highest to the left (LR), less high (EK43 to be) and lowest to the right. or the other way around maybe? (Might also be fun for any cats in the house?







)


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

that's easy - grinder on one front speaker, machine on the other, tamper on the subwoofer







(cups back left, jugs back right)


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## Les996 (Jan 8, 2019)

...and just as a side note, I will take the Niche too


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

tohenk2 said:


> Maybe you can put a LR somewhere else on display? Or put the cabinets on different heights if removing one is out - highest to the left (LR), less high (EK43 to be) and lowest to the right. or the other way around maybe? (Might also be fun for any cats in the house?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Haha, youve really thought about this. But as I said, an LR isnt in the equation at present.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

pgarrish said:


> that's easy - grinder on one front speaker, machine on the other, tamper on the subwoofer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Power Freak (Dec 14, 2018)

tohenk2 said:


> I'm complely biased since I own a V - but the LMLM would not be going in my kitchen. (A GS3? maybe. Nah, not even that one. If you go for simplicity, go for a Londinium and remove a cabinet.)


If you go for profiling, go for a decent...!

The LMLM is a great machine, the comments on this thread make it seem like we're talking about a gaggia classic vs the vesuvius! The LM will give great quality shots, it looks great and it's a joy to use thanks to the tactile nature of the controls (something that is overlooked a lot when talking about espresso machines) and it doesn't leave you with buyers remorse thinking "If only I tweaked the pressure at 20s I would have gotten more out of this coffee... let's do it again!" There are clear reasons to keep either machine.

I look forward to reading more of this thread as like most people (I imagine) I've only really had experience with 1 of the options.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Power Freak said:


> The LM will give great quality shots, it looks great .


Are we all using the same visual spectrum here....? I'm sure it works great, but it is one of the ugliest machines I have ever seen, even worse than some of the Expobars!


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Are we all using the same visual spectrum here....? I'm sure it works great, but it is one of the ugliest machines I have ever seen, even worse than some of the Expobars!


"Functional" springs to mind. The Vesuvius is better, but I'd still struggle to call that one pretty.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

To be honest both are far away from being a design masterpiece









I would prefer something like this regarding design.


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## mvogler (Mar 2, 2019)

L&R said:


> To be honest both are far away from being a design masterpiece
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a fidget spinner!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

pgarrish said:


> "Functional" springs to mind. The Vesuvius is better, but I'd still struggle to call that one pretty.


Strictly comparing the Vesuvius with the LMLM


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## Power Freak (Dec 14, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> Are we all using the same visual spectrum here....? I'm sure it works great, but it is one of the ugliest machines I have ever seen, even worse than some of the Expobars!





pgarrish said:


> "Functional" springs to mind. The Vesuvius is better, but I'd still struggle to call that one pretty.


Visuals are a personal thing, being divisive can be the sign of good design!... Plus the V has a screen that would have been considered "pretty nifty" in 1994!



L&R said:


> To be honest both are far away from being a design masterpiece
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not quite the same league price-wise though!


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Strictly comparing the Vesuvius with the LMLM


I like my Santos 4 grinder.... my opinion is invalid


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Power Freak said:


> Visuals are a personal thing, being divisive can be the sign of good design!... Plus the V has a screen that would have been considered "pretty nifty" in 1994!Not quite the same league price-wise though!


then it's soon due to come right back in to fashion, the old new retro look for the Hipster....or has the hipster had his day now? What was it someone once said, if your old enough to remember wearing it first time around, don't try and wear it now!









However, I design mechanicals and internals...not looks...I leave that side to others.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Are we all using the same visual spectrum here....? I'm sure it works great, but it is one of the ugliest machines I have ever seen, even worse than some of the Expobars!


Not keen on the cubist stormtrooper look?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

The better half's latte art attempt and first shot efforts on the LM.

The shot was 18g in 37g out in 36. Tasted very good although she only allowed me a sip.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Are we all using the same visual spectrum here....? I'm sure it works great, but it is one of the ugliest machines I have ever seen, even worse than some of the Expobars!


Finally you agree about the Vesuvius


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> then it's soon due to come right back in to fashion, the old new retro look for the Hipster....or has the hipster had his day now? What was it someone once said, if your old enough to remember wearing it first time around, don't try and wear it now!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Give it a few years and 'Hipsters' will be retro.. Although I'm guessing they will attest to being retro first time round







Anyway, weren't hipsters an item of clothing in the 60's? At least I can say I don't remember the 60's as I wasn't born then







But I do remember flares in the 70's so I guess I'm not allowed to wear them again







My late father used to love wearing flares at work as he said they stopped welding sparks going down his boots lol.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Not keen on the cubist stormtrooper look?


I saw a video review of one and it looked better in that, albeit the lever thing on the front is a bit cheap and tacky looking


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

I love my Vesuvius but it's not a pretty machine. I quite like the look of the LM...I'll get my coat


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Such a shame the LM doesn't operate like a GS3 with the Strada mod. Maybe it's meant to be uncomplicated.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rhys said:


> Such a shame the LM doesn't operate like a GS3 with the Strada mod. Maybe it's meant to be uncomplicated.


Yep its a linea, gs3 does profiling, linea doesn't.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

How goes the comparrison?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> How goes the comparrison?


Its been fun, havent had much play time the last few days because of work. But its been a fair'ish comparison.

Typically make two coffees at a time, one for the other half and one for myself, so have been making one on each and then comparing as we go.

Blind taste tests at present have so far gone both ways, and now that I have the LM dialled in a bit better, its is producing significantly better shots than I was getting originally, whereas the V was as ever very stable and replicable.

The LM is simple. It has no major variables that can be changed without delving into the boiler room and adjusting the Gicleur and pressure (which I have done). It is now better than it was with a reduced flow and pressure rate. The simple paddle switch is nothing more than an on off and pre-infusion is arguably set at just 1 second, so the reduction in flow rates has aided the initial saturation pre shot production.

At present, I am still enjoying playing..................which machine would I pick if I had too, I still dont know!


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## PaulL (May 5, 2014)

Has it helped you understand why you are dissatisfied with the V and if the LM doesn't make it, what machine you will try next?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

PaulL said:


> Has it helped you understand why you are dissatisfied with the V and if the LM doesn't make it, what machine you will try next?


I am not dissatisfied with the V by any means. Its a great machine and more competent that I probably ever will need.

As I mentioned previously, the LM fell into my lap. Was a decent price that made me think I may aswell give it a go. My take was that there was no harm in trying.

I have enjoyed playing with both and actually would love to try a load of others, so who knows where it'll go.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Planter said:


> I have enjoyed playing with both and actually would love to try a load of others, so who knows where it'll go.


A new house/flat to accommodate a lever? 

I'll show myself out...


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

PPapa said:


> A new house/flat to accommodate a lever?
> 
> I'll show myself out...


I agree


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I am the shallowest person I know, and therefore very qualified to judge these machines. I am so shallow that the aesthetics of the Niche preclude it's entry to my coffee corner.

Normally I hate the look of the Vesuvius with its horrible digital display, but your photo's make it look cool, in fact your pictures make it look highly desirable.

From the aesthetics point of view the Vesuvius is an honest machine, form follows function, it's a very pure machine. The LM is the opposite, the fussy shape, the pretend paddle. Surely the knowledge that this paddle is merely operating a switch would drive you nuts after a while?

Then there is the noise when pulling a shot - no competition, the Vesuvius surely wins this one?


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

NickR said:


> I am the shallowest person I know, and therefore very qualified to judge these machines. I am so shallow that the aesthetics of the Niche preclude it's entry to my coffee corner.
> 
> Normally I hate the look of the Vesuvius with its horrible digital display, but your photo's make it look cool, in fact your pictures make it look highly desirable.
> 
> ...


I like the honesty.

I don't really agree nor disagree. I like them both for what they are.

The paddle is a strange one. However the way I've been looking at it is not trying to compare apples to apples.

This machine (the LM), is similar to most non pressure profile machines. There is a button to turn it on and off. I can live with that. I'm trying to compare them for what they are. Which isn't easy when they are very different. But equally impressive in their own right.

The noise of the LM is not significantly different to the V. Marginally louder. But nothing I would ever criticise it over. Sounds more mechanical than the nice humm of the V though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It's so odd how people get annoyed about the paddle.

It does what it is meant to do, start extraction, it's not pretending to anything else.

The machine is not pressure profiling or has any degree of pre infusion, it's not advertised as such.

If people want a machine that does these, why ever bother look at a linea mini. There are way cheaper options of machine that do these..

The switch is simply a nicer tactile way of setting the machine going than a button.

A machine being pure and honest is beyond my ken, that says more about the holder of the opinion than the machine.

One could say the new Londinium looks pure and honest and has a "digital pre infusion " in it. How does that fit in.

Answer is, it doesnt matter, it's a machine


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

This thread....


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Without pre infusion I can't see how the LM could get the best from more difficult beans - I would assume channelling would be more of a problem? A bit like a standard, plumbed in e61

Looks aside - there's a huge functional difference between these 2 machines


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> Without pre infusion I can't see how the LM could get the best from more difficult beans - I would assume channelling would be more of a problem? A bit like a standard, plumbed in e61
> 
> Looks aside - there's a huge functional difference between these 2 machines


Perhaps people are not using more difficult coffees?

You don't get a naked pf with this machine, so you won't see the channeling.

Plenty of commercial machines have little pre infusion on them.

But yes your right , differences abound. Not everyone wants lots of variables to make coffee with. Some just want simple.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

If you want it simple, why to spent so much on a coffee machine just for nice labels La Marzocco?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

L&R said:


> If you want it simple, why to spent so much on a coffee machine just for nice labels La Marzocco?


Why not? If people want to own an LM and it's their money , then so what?

Perhaps just having a machine they like the look of and the brand that makes then happy is enough reason.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I would pick the Vesuvius looks and function .. But if you like the other get one , keep it . It's very much like watches and cars .. The cheapest will very likely keep better time or get you to the same place . Sometimes it's sort just nice to know and look at the more expensive ones .


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

IIRC the LM has pre-infusion, albeit set so you can't alter it.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Rhys said:


> IIRC the LM has pre-infusion, albeit set so you can't alter it.


That's correct Rhys. It's factory set at 1 second.


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