# Sticky  Coffee - cleanliness is next to godliness



## DavecUK

You have had your shiny new machine for a week now, perhaps longer...or perhaps you bought it a while ago. it may have cost you the thick end of £2000 to £2500 or more for machine and grinder. You are looking at things to improve the coffee, perhaps a refractometer, new tamper, different basket, better cups, different coffees, better jug, timer, expensive scales. Yes you name it and there is a product on the market just waiting to relieve you of your hard earned readies.

To all this frippery above....I say NO, first make sure you're cleaning the machine and portafilter properly. Get those hands out of your pockets and onto the machine to give it a bit of TLC. Here is my guide for the absolute minimum cleaning regime for any E61 or E61type machine...e.g. those pumped machines with a portafilter handle, basket and 3 way valve.

*How often should you follow this cleaning regime clean = Every 2 - 3 days and daily for the portafilter handle and basket.*

*
*


Remove handle, remove basket. Clean both sides of basket with a non stick scrubby and detergent.

Clean portafilter handle (bowl) as above

Clean hole and spout/s with a small bottle brush and detergent

remove shower screen, clean both sides of basket with a non stick scrubby and detergent, be gentle on gasket if still attached to screen

Clean inside group, dispersion plate and gasket groove etc..with a non stick scrubby and detergent, be gentle.

Inspect group gasket, of flexible and not cracked continue to use. If hard and/or cracked...replace it you cheapskate. In general gaskets should be replaced every 9 -12 months on HX machines and every 12-15 months on dual boiler machines, regardless of condition.


Backflushing with cleaner doesn't really get any of this clean and it's main function is to clean the group venting system.

I know it seems excessive, but it's not and you will taste the difference, if you can't, then you should never waste your money on expensive coffee! You wouldn't use the same cup for 2 days would you, or the same spoon, people spend 1000s on acessories and kit, but many don't bother with the cleaning?

P.S. This is a less than 5m job, if it's taking you longer...you're doing it wrong.


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## robashton

Amen!


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## PPapa

I keep my Chemex clean.

One of the reasons I like manual brewing is that I can see what I am doing. I keep looking at them, but I don't think I'll pull the trigger any time soon!


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## The Systemic Kid

Chemex needs washing out every few months if in daily use with something like Cafiza to remove oils' build up.


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## ronsil

That's an absolute positive agreement with DavecUK's post.

I never cease to be amazed at the condition some people allow their expensive machines to get into.

'Clenliness next to Godliness' should be the Words.

Cafiza & Puly are the Barista's best friends for repeatable quality coffee, Brewed or Espresso.


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## DavecUK

It really should be a sticky, so all new members realise this is one of the most important things and too often neglected....I think because people assume with almost boiling water going through, the machines are "self cleaning". Same with that self cleaning water tank and those mouldy old filter attachments on the pipes inside the water tank!


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## Eyedee

Personally I'm an advocate of the end of the daily use backflush with clean water. Simple and quick.

Ian


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## DoubleShot

ronsil said:


> I never cease to be amazed at the condition some people allow their expensive machines to get into.


Agree with this. Glad it's not just my OCD with regards to cleaning!


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## DavecUK

Eyedee said:


> Personally I'm an advocate of the end of the daily use backflush with clean water. Simple and quick.
> 
> Ian


make you feel gooood...but doesn't do very much. You still need to do the proper cleaning.


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## Grahamg

That was lesson no 1 on my coffeechap training.... a quick inspection of the machine a sideways glance and "most important thing, let me show you how to clean your machine"


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## risky

I've stuck this.

Amazes me how quickly the back of the shower screen gets absolutely caked in grot.


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## NickR

Another thing that absolutely should be done at least once a month for tank fed machines is to empty and wash the reservoir. Both the shower screen and the reservoir stay pretty clean on an L1, but an E61 based HX machine is really grimey after a few weeks.


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## DavecUK

NickR said:


> Another thing that absolutely should be done at least once a month for tank fed machines is to empty and wash the reservoir. Both the shower screen and the reservoir stay pretty clean on an L1, but an E61 based HX machine is really grimey after a few weeks.


Once a month....once a month! Weekly young man and no longer than 2 weeks.


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## grumpydaddy

Washing your cup? cleaning your coffee machine? you'll lose all the flavour..... Next you'll be telling me that the teapot needs scrubbing too. Heresy I say


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## dancing james

I do these things but ought to do them more often. Tend to find that soaking all the parts in cafiza helps dissolve the oily residues.


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## monkey66

Call me odd but as well as regular head clean I back flush every shot and clear my basket with the steam wand every shot.

How I hate when I have a coffee from what's supposed to be a serious coffee shop and I can taste the machine is dirty.


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## DC63

I agree with you monkey66. ive often asked if they cleaned there machine last night. DUH, last week so called Barista didn't even know what a mazzer was.


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## Chrisrayner

I bought a grinder recently which had been used allegedly for six months in a coffee shop. It did not appear to have been cleaned ever. After wrestling with the seized thread on the upper burr carrier (left hand thread) I managed to dismantle the machine. There was a thick deposit of coffee solids and oils inside which needed to be scraped off with the blade of a small screwdriver.

The vendor warned me that the grinder had been set up by an expert, and that on no account should the setting be disturbed. Right! Once I had cleaned the thing from its caked on residue of stale and rancid coffee I spent a happy and profitable day or so finding out its limits. The screw thread clearly not having been moved since it was first used it needed some lubrication. A brush with olive oil soon got it moving freely. It has a dosing store which holds the ground coffee and a dispensing lever. This will hold about 700 - 800 grams of coffee, I guess, never bothered to measure. I suspect that the thing was probably filled at the beginning of the day, and coffee dispensed as required. From the level of knowledge demonstrated by the vendor it wouldn't surprise me if ground coffee were to have been left overnight. The coffee shop closed down after six months. Surprise?


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## hotmetal

Wow the 'expert' must have been awesome if he managed to find a setting that never needed changing regardless of bean, humidity, age of bean post roast.

Sounds to me like someone thought "let's jump on the bandwagon and open a coffee shop. I'll use cheap beans, cheap labour and just tell them not to fiddle with anything, and I'll just count the money".


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## Jumbo Ratty

Chrisrayner said:


> It has a dosing store which holds the ground coffee and a dispensing lever. This will hold about 700 - 800 grams of coffee, I guess, never bothered to measure. I suspect that the thing was probably filled at the beginning of the day, and coffee dispensed as required. From the level of knowledge demonstrated by the vendor it wouldn't surprise me if ground coffee were to have been left overnight. The coffee shop closed down after six months. Surprise?


This is one of my bugbears.

I see it all the time, the doser brimming with ground coffee.

If I see this I just cant have a coffee at that establishment. I dont even want to get into a conversation with them regarding how long ago the coffee was ground as I wouldnt believe them.

this is such poor practice and just no need to do it,, it doesnt save time,, what are they thinking ?


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## Missy

Quick question. Flinging bits in the dishwasher? Yes or no? Water tank, baskets, PF handle?my life revolves around our dishwasher....


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## DavecUK

Missy said:


> Quick question. Flinging bits in the dishwasher? Yes or no? Water tank, baskets, PF handle?my life revolves around our dishwasher....


Best not to.


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## Jason1wood

I always put mine in the dishwasher


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## 7493

In my experience anything made exclusively of stainless steel e.g. milk jugs, baskets etc. is fine in the dishwasher. Plastic or Bakelite not a good idea and anything chrome plated is a bad idea.


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## Scotford

What's wrong with a good old fashioned soak and scrub every day??? I get pissy if my baristas aren't whipping out the baskets and cleaning them every 5 shots or 20 minutes (whichever comes first).


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## malling

I get pissed if the Barista dos not at least rinse the basket after or before a shot and then wiped down with a cloth before grinding into the portafilter, preferable the barista also rinse the screen and wipe it down.

pitchers should not be washed by hand, unless one dos not have any other options. I put then in the dishwasher, and the pitchers looks perfectly fine and it is far more hygienic, as the agent used is far more aggressive and the temperature is allot higher.

Everything else is soaked and/or cleaned by hand, a couple of times a week.

Having seen allot of home equipment over the years, this thread should definitely be a sticky!

It is really not for the faint hearted, looking behind a shower screen can be quite disgusting.


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## 7493

I do the basket every shot. The luxury of doing it at home! Still put it through the dishwasher every so often for a deep clean. Shower screen, every week, but our volume is low.


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## Missy

I do rinse between shots and dry with a microfiber cloth, and dust the outside of the shower screen every day (I only do ~3 shots a day) and then a proper clean once a week. The dishwasher, with two small time consuming people just makes life a bit quicker if its feasible.


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## JackLaymen

Can vouch for the dishwasher, especially anything stainless steel or baskets


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## Rob_EthioBean

Hand wash always! Nothing beats human cleaning


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## pjbuk

Helpful reminder that I haven't properly cleaned my machine for a while. Kind of hoping it would die to give an excuse to upgrade!


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## paul whu

I do a cafiza backflush every 2 kilos or so and get loads of muck out despite the fact I do a single backflush after each shot. I've had the machine about 18 months and have never lubricated the grouphead. There appears to be no adverse effects whatsoever

I've read on here before that it's important to take it all apart and reassemble after each chemical clean to avoid damaging the lever. I'm concerned that I'm more likely to balls up the reassembling process than suffer a backflush breakdown.

I also know that coffee shops clean with cafiza and don't get the spanners and lube out each day.

I only use about 1/4 teaspoon of chemical as it's enough.

Do most people relube the group after every clean I am curious to discover?


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## DavecUK

paul whu said:


> I do a cafiza backflush every 2 kilos or so and get loads of muck out despite the fact I do a single backflush after each shot. I've had the machine about 18 months and have never lubricated the grouphead. There appears to be no adverse effects whatsoever
> 
> I've read on here before that it's important to take it all apart and reassemble after each chemical clean to avoid damaging the lever. I'm concerned that I'm more likely to balls up the reassembling process than suffer a backflush breakdown.
> 
> I also know that coffee shops clean with cafiza and don't get the spanners and lube out each day.
> 
> I only use about 1/4 teaspoon of chemical as it's enough.
> 
> Do most people relube the group after every clean I am curious to discover?


Well you don't know then that most coffee shops don't use E61 machines, but solenoid operated valves, so don't need lubing. I suspect you have never taken the lower or upper part of the group apart to inspect it. I also am

unclear as to whether you ever drop the shower screen to inspect it to see if it and the dispersion plate are really clean.

But you know what they say...


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## paul whu

You're right about knowing about the grouphead situation of coffee shop machines.

You're wrong about the shower screen thing though. That gets done every time I cafiza backflush, gasket cleaned. I actually quite enjoy it. Anyway Dave, do you lube up every time you backflush?

My point was that by observation it appears fresh water backflushing doesn't get all the oils out, chemical cleaning however appears to the untrained eye to be better.

That leads me to the lubing situation. There is every chance I'm missing the point but I was wondering how necessary it is for the longevity of the machine. That's it really...


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## DavecUK

paul whu said:


> You're right about knowing about the grouphead situation of coffee shop machines.
> 
> You're wrong about the shower screen thing though. That gets done every time I cafiza backflush, gasket cleaned. I actually quite enjoy it. Anyway Dave, do you lube up every time you backflush?
> 
> My point was that by observation it appears fresh water backflushing doesn't get all the oils out, chemical cleaning however appears to the untrained eye to be better.
> 
> That leads me to the lubing situation. There is every chance I'm missing the point but I was wondering how necessary it is for the longevity of the machine. That's it really...


I lubricate the cam after a Chemical backflush yes, it only takes a minute or two to do. I like to lube the spindle as well, so the spindle gaskets don't leak. A Cafiza backflush every 2 kilos is disgusting assuming you put even 1kilo per week through the machine, that's once every 2 weeks or less often. I drop the screen at least every 2 days and manually clean with a scrubby and washing up liquid. Water backflushing does little and cafiza backflushes only clean the lower half of the group, they do little to clean behind the shower screen....especially as you are only using 1/4 teaspoon, because "it's not enough".

Over the years I've tried to encourage people to be cleaner with their kit, mostly unsuccessfully. It beats me why people want to spend 1000s on gear and then not clean it. it's sort of like buying a £10,000 amplifier and only playing 96kb mp3s, or using some fancy Japanese cooking knife in the workshop on old bits of wood and metal, before preparing a meal with it, also never sharpening it....it's a madness I don't understand and I have seen many machines owned by people who think they have looked after them well.....but they haven't.

You will get lots of advice on whose expensive beans to get, how to use expensive scales, using expensive refractometers, expensive autotampers etc.. however the best way to make a huge improvement is free...keep the business end of the machine...portafilter, basket, shower screen etc.. clean clean clean, as clean as you can. of course it't not sexy, exciting, spending loads of money...but it's the best advice you will ever get. The only reason I clean everything once per day, is because doing it more often is just a hassle.

But...like all my other posts on the subject, I am sure I am just wasting my time....and in a few months the advice to new owners of prosumer machines will be the usual get a better grinder, tamper, scales, refractometer, better water etc.. etc.., but not ONE person will say...keep the machine really clean. if you don't believe me, go look at all the posts.


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## Phobic

DavecUK said:


> Over the years I've tried to encourage people to be cleaner with their kit, mostly unsuccessfully.


just so you know it's not falling on deaf ears, my machine is cleaner than Mrs Migons floor the time she dropped a bucket of hot soapy water after a bad bout of OCD - that's mainly because what you've taken the time to write on here, so thanks Dave, message received loud and clear!


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## paul whu

Blimey! Someone's tired

My machine IS clean Daviduk

I DO remove the shower screen and clean thoroughly.

My coffee tastes great and I don't spend thousands on gear.

So when your knickers untwist please can you explain to me why I need to Lube as my machine shows no ill effects? Surely there is no impact on flavour?!

I'm not saying I don't need it, I was just trying to find out whether I really need to disassemble my machine.

Aside from that I disagree with the cafiza dose being too low. the evidence is in the dark gunk which comes out of the exhaust which runs totally clear in about 7 flushes.

It's all very well to say it is "disgusting" to clean up at 2 Kilo intervals. Please articulate why you find it so. The manner in which you have written it doesn't make it too clear. Is it too regular? Not regular enough?

For the record, I completely agree that a clean cheap machine is better than a filthy expensive one. I recognise that the best coffee comes from clean kit. Which explains why I have secondhand gear in a favourable state of hygiene.


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## nicholasj

Just got hold of some Puly Baby to give my Silvia its first descale...better than the stronger stuff like Oust?

Anyway, I assume I also flush the solution through the steam wand?


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## grumpydaddy

Just wanted to put this thread up there again that more might be inclined to read

Fitted my new seals and took the time to de-gunk old grease and the shower screen got a proper seeing to as well ....

I have been wanting to do that for ages but getting it off was an issue... I was loathe to try harder for fear of damage, anyway, the puly caff did the job judging from the colour of the solution after a half hour soak and now I get to see through all the perforations. A spare is now on my list so I can rotate their use and keep them sparkling.

Some of you may remember me saying my taste buds are shot from years of smoking..... well, even I can tell the difference


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## Stanic

eh..my boss at the café sometimes doesn't even bother to clean the steam wand properly..I mean she makes it clean from the outside but when the machine gets hot in the morning, I usually fill a milk pitcher with water and 'froth' it..usually takes three water changes to get rid of white-ish gunk stuck inside...blimey

and dropping the shower screens? when I started to work there it was the first time after 5 months of use..don't ask how it looked..and these are the IMS ones and a Puly backflush is done every evening...but she would never let it soak, not even for 10 minutes, just the typical 5x 10 second flush and should be all clean, right?


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## Stanic

I gave miss silvia a deep cleaning today, feels so good









30 minutes with puly soaking the group head with removed dispersion screen, and rinza for the wand with unscrewed tip, scrubbing the head and all parts, also going up that wand with steamy wanda









followed by with 2 hours of de-scaling with 10% citric acid solution, twice exchanging the solution..damn strong, I've got few drops on my skin and could feel the power


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## Tiny tamper

Stanic said:


> eh..my boss at the café sometimes doesn't even bother to clean the steam wand properly..I mean she makes it clean from the outside but when the machine gets hot in the morning, I usually fill a milk pitcher with water and 'froth' it..usually takes three water changes to get rid of white-ish gunk stuck inside...blimey
> 
> and dropping the shower screens? when I started to work there it was the first time after 5 months of use..don't ask how it looked..and these are the IMS ones and a Puly backflush is done every evening...but she would never let it soak, not even for 10 minutes, just the typical 5x 10 second flush and should be all clean, right?


There is now a very cheap solution to your problem....

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?38917-Ultra-sonic-bath-for-steam-wands


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## 9719

Stanic said:


> I gave miss silvia a deep cleaning today, feels so good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30 minutes with puly soaking the group head with removed dispersion screen, and rinza for the wand with unscrewed tip, scrubbing the head and all parts, also going up that wand with steamy wanda
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> followed by with 2 hours of de-scaling with 10% citric acid solution, twice exchanging the solution..damn strong, I've got few drops on my skin and could feel the power


Now put it away in the the back of a cupboard and forget about it ?


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## Stanic

mines_abeer said:


> Now put it away in the the back of a cupboard and forget about it ?


Or box her up and send to the new happy owner


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## MediumRoastSteam

Keeping it clean ... 

Weekly removal of seals and cleaning it with water.

Chemically backflushed every 6 weeks.










View of the e61 bottom where the portafilter goes without the seal.


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## dwm

Really useful thread for someone who has just bought their first machine and wants to take good care of it.

Thanks for posting


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## BaggaZee

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Keeping it clean ...
> 
> Weekly removal of seals and cleaning it with water.
> 
> Chemically backflushed every 6 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View of the e61 bottom where the portafilter goes without the seal.


THis has shamed me into going home at lunchtime today to clean mine.


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## Miss Lydia Caffeine

I must admit that the heading is very interesting...too interesting that it brought me here







hahaha..."coffee cleanliness is next to godliness", Brilliant i must say! Absolutely brilliant!


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## dsc

After reading this thread am I the only one ashamed now with the state of my home setup? Can't remember the last time I cleaned the shower screen on my L1...

T.


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## Phobic

dsc said:


> After reading this thread am I the only one ashamed now with the state of my home setup? Can't remember the last time I cleaned the shower screen on my L1...
> 
> T.


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## MildredM

dsc said:


> After reading this thread am I the only one ashamed now with the state of my home setup? Can't remember the last time I cleaned the shower screen on my L1...
> 
> T.


I'm ringing the RSPCL hotline as I type!


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## dsc

Right you can all relax now, all is clean again







As it turns out I have cleaned everything when I was changing the piston seals a few months back, the screen wasn't too bad, but there was quite a lot of build up on the bottom of the piston.

I'll go back and hide in my dirty cupboard...

T.


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## igm45

dsc said:


> Right you can all relax now, all is clean again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As it turns out I have cleaned everything when I was changing the piston seals a few months back, the screen wasn't too bad, but there was quite a lot of build up on the bottom of the piston.
> 
> I'll go back and hide in my dirty cupboard...
> 
> T.


Go on, please say you took pictures...


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## dsc

No photos I'm afraid, although I have to say I was rather surprised to see the shower screen so clean after such a long time. I do clean flushes after shots, so perhaps that actually helps a bit.

T.


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## caffaholic

Very helpful


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## veedeeL

Great advice!


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## nicholasj

A quick bit of basic advise please...

What comes first, a descale or Puly back flush?

And for the descale should the shower screen be removed? It needs soaking anyway?

are the Puly descale sachets good for home use?

cheers


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## Stanic

nicholasj said:


> A quick bit of basic advise please...
> 
> What comes first, a descale or Puly back flush?
> 
> And for the descale should the shower screen be removed? It needs soaking anyway?
> 
> are the Puly descale sachets good for home use?
> 
> cheers


usually I would clean with puly first and then descale

with Silvia I removed the screen, shower plate and disperser when descaling

they should be


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## nicholasj

Stanic said:


> usually I would clean with puly first and then descale
> 
> with Silvia I removed the screen, shower plate and disperser when descaling
> 
> they should be


Cheers Stanic, is the disperser the little round thingy that sits in the middle of the plate?

just saw your post #43 too!


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## Stanic

nicholasj said:


> Cheers Stanic, is the disperser the little round thingy that sits in the middle of the plate?


That is the one..guess it's aluminium

Also check this





 from 5:40


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## nicholasj

Stanic said:


> That is the one..guess it's aluminium
> 
> Also check this


Good video @Stanic ...not seen that bit before during the de scaling when you diverted the shorted silicon tube!

Also I note that when de scaling, the shower plate, block and disperser are kept in situ. I used to take mine off when de scaling but water tended to shoot off everywhere!


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## Stanic

nicholasj said:


> Good video @Stanic I used to take mine off when de scaling but water tended to shoot off everywhere!


I used to take it off too in fear of corrosion of the brass but as you say the descaling acid can then shoot everywhere..not very safe but with a bit of anticipation it is doable. What I usually was I took it off after filling of the boiler then with the blind disc in place it was not an issue. Then I would use the water dispensing function to renew the solution in the boiler


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## Paul CS

So glad I came across this thread. My Gaggia Classic was second hand. Just cleaned everything as described here. My god did it need a clean or what! Looking forward to my double espresso in the morning.

Thanks.

Paul


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## viveur

Here I'm wondering what people's procedures are for the milk part of the machine - anyone willing to share?


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## Rj_d2

Great post i've Learnt a lot from this thanks.


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## rod77ama

Yes i agreed great post...

I'm a newbi so appreciated any advice that i can get

Regards


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## Stanic

viveur said:


> Here I'm wondering what people's procedures are for the milk part of the machine - anyone willing to share?


Soak with Rinza, scrub well


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## DavecUK

As part of my wish for people to clean their E61 groups far more often then they do....it's this fast and this easy. Always remember backflushing with cleaner mainly cleans the vent parts of the E61 group (not the bits you drink coffee from), oh and it also strips the oils from the cam nicely. No reason why people can't do this every couple of days.


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## Nicknak

DavidcUk

I was quite surprised when I did this clean on a two week old machine which I do a clear water cleaning flush on the head and clean flush through the portafilter and then a back flush every two coffees .. Thanks for the video and I will now perform this regularly .. Yes it does take only a few minutes .

If you are still monitoring this . I had to do an E61 strip down and replace all the bits due to a squeak .. If you strip down and clean all the bits in the E61 and regrease say every month and clean as above , would you still do a chemical back flush regime before the strip down .. Thanks in advance Nick


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## Popinman

Brilliant info, thanks everyone. I'm soon to be the owner of a new shiny (hopefully Rocket) machine and wondered if there was a step by step cleaning/care/maintenance guide anyone could recommend please? Many thanks.


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## Gigizverka

Thanks everyone! Newby here enjoying valuable info!


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## naio

Thanks for the info









Question, is it a bit too much to backflush every day (just water)?


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## DavecUK

naio said:


> Thanks for the info
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Question, is it a bit too much to backflush every day (just water)?


no it's not, but it won't do very much or substitute for the cleaning you should do every 2-3 days by dropping the shower screen..


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## Crazylady

I'm a new member of the forum. Information here noted ! Thanks.


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## richwade80

Spring cleaning this morning...

Would have been a more informative post if the forum wasn't all ballsed up.


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## DavecUK

Wow, you got total retention of almost 1.1g that's 0.4g more than I measured for my review! It's very clean though


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## richwade80

DavecUK said:


> Wow, you got total retention of almost 1.1g that's 0.4g more than I measured for my review! It's very clean though


Yeah, it's been a while... so satisfying though and really easy. Calibration remains bang on.

Only 0.6g lost on first use, post cleaning.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steve_S_T

NickR said:


> Another thing that absolutely should be done at least once a month for tank fed machines is to empty and wash the reservoir. Both the shower screen and the reservoir stay pretty clean on an L1, but an E61 based HX machine is really grimey after a few weeks.


 I realise that this is an old post, hope nobody minds me resurrecting it with a (potentially) dumb question. The cleaning regime being discussed I wholly agree with, but could somebody explain where the reservoir would generally be please? I have a Fracino Heavenly, but can't find any mention of reservoirs on the schematic, and must admit I'm not entirely sure where I'd find it, much less how I would clean it.

Thanks,

*Steve*


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## DavecUK

Steve_S_T said:


> I realise that this is an old post, hope nobody minds me resurrecting it with a (potentially) dumb question. The cleaning regime being discussed I wholly agree with, but could somebody explain where the reservoir would generally be please? I have a Fracino Heavenly, but can't find any mention of reservoirs on the schematic, and must admit I'm not entirely sure where I'd find it, much less how I would clean it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> *Steve*


 You have to take the top off....lots of screws and then you can see the reservoir. The wires at the bottom (for low water level electrical connection) have to be disconnected then the thing can be removed for cleaning. If I remember rightly you can do it without taking the body panel off. Getting the top back on can be a ballache as the body panel likes to pop out from one side as you get the other side in. Why fracino decided to make the internal reservoir essentially non removable without some machine disassembly is beyond me.

The reservoir should be cleaned once per week, or at most once every 2 weeks. Often the white internal reservoir has stained nut brown due to never having been cleaned...it's absolutely disgusting


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## Steve_S_T

DavecUK said:


> You have to take the top off....lots of screws and then you can see the reservoir. The wires at the bottom (for low water level electrical connection) have to be disconnected then the thing can be removed for cleaning. If I remember rightly you can do it without taking the body panel off. Getting the top back on can be a ballache as the body panel likes to pop out from one side as you get the other side in. Why fracino decided to make the internal reservoir essentially non removable without some machine disassembly is beyond me.
> 
> The reservoir should be cleaned once per week, or at most once every 2 weeks. Often the white internal reservoir has stained nut brown due to never having been cleaned...it's absolutely disgusting


 So when you say reservoir, are you talking about the tank then, aka the sweet jar in the case of the Heavenly?

*Steve*


----------



## DavecUK

Yes


----------



## Steve_S_T

DavecUK said:


> Yes


 Thanks Dave, that makes sense now. I've taken the lid off many times, and I'd say it's close to impossible so to do without the side panel popping out 

*Steve*


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> You have had your shiny new machine for a week now, perhaps longer...or perhaps you bought it a while ago. it may have cost you the thick end of £2000 to £2500 or more for machine and grinder. You are looking at things to improve the coffee, perhaps a refractometer, new tamper, different basket, better cups, different coffees, better jug, timer, expensive scales. Yes you name it and there is a product on the market just waiting to relieve you of your hard earned readies.
> 
> To all this frippery above....I say NO, first make sure you're cleaning the machine and portafilter properly. Get those hands out of your pockets and onto the machine to give it a bit of TLC. Here is my guide for the absolute minimum cleaning regime for any E61 or E61type machine...e.g. those pumped machines with a portafilter handle, basket and 3 way valve.
> 
> *How often should you follow this cleaning regime clean = Every 2 - 3 days and daily for the portafilter handle and basket.*
> 
> 
> 
> Remove handle, remove basket. Clean both sides of basket with a non stick scrubby and detergent.
> 
> 
> Clean portafilter handle (bowl) as above
> 
> 
> Clean hole and spout/s with a small bottle brush and detergent
> 
> 
> remove shower screen, clean both sides of basket with a non stick scrubby and detergent, be gentle on gasket if still attached to screen
> 
> 
> Clean inside group, dispersion plate and gasket groove etc..with a non stick scrubby and detergent, be gentle.
> 
> 
> Inspect group gasket, of flexible and not cracked continue to use. If hard and/or cracked...replace it you cheapskate. In general gaskets should be replaced every 9 -12 months on HX machines and every 12-15 months on dual boiler machines, regardless of condition.
> 
> 
> Backflushing with cleaner doesn't really get any of this clean and it's main function is to clean the group venting system.
> 
> I know it seems excessive, but it's not and you will taste the difference, if you can't, then you should never waste your money on expensive coffee! You wouldn't use the same cup for 2 days would you, or the same spoon, people spend 1000s on acessories and kit, but many don't bother with the cleaning?
> 
> P.S. This is a less than 5m job, if it's taking you longer...you're doing it wrong.


 Hi Dave, can you tell me how to remove the shower screen on the lelit bianca please.


----------



## DavecUK

Obidi said:


> Hi Dave, can you tell me how to remove the shower screen on the lelit bianca please.


 Of course I can, I thought it was in the userguide I wrote, but I suspect you don't have that.


----------



## Obidi

> 6 minutes ago, DavecUK said:
> 
> Of course I can, I thought it was in the userguide I wrote, but I suspect you don't have that.


 Thanks Dave, this is he minima, is it the same procedure for the bianca?


----------



## DavecUK

Obidi said:


> Thanks Dave, this is he minima, is it the same procedure for the bianca?


 I wouldn't have posted this is it wasn't?


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> I wouldn't have posted this is it wasn't?


 Brilliant, thank you.


----------



## Nick1881

I just cleaned my Bianca after 2 weeks of use, shower screen was pretty clean as I backflush daily, little bit of dirt/oil on the dispersion plate. Now it looks like brand new again, was easier than I thought too.

Thanks for the guide Dave.


----------



## igm45

Obidi said:


> Brilliant, thank you.


 Instead of using a spoon you can use the edge of your basket too...


----------



## Jony

Back of spoon is far easier, less sharper


----------



## Obidi

Cleaned the shower screen on the bianca. It was brown, but now all shiny and clean along with the gubbins above (dispersion plate?) Thanks again Dave. I backflushed too, but not with the puly caff cleaner. The last time I did that, the lever was a little squeaky afterwards and I haven't got the courage to dismantle the lever to lubricate it. ?


----------



## DavecUK

Obidi said:


> Cleaned the shower screen on the bianca. It was brown, but now all shiny and clean along with the gubbins above (dispersion plate?) Thanks again Dave. I backflushed too, but not with the puly caff cleaner. The last time I did that, the lever was a little squeaky afterwards and I haven't got the courage to dismantle the lever to lubricate it. ?


 You should clean with Puly and remove the lever+cam for cleaning. If you don't you will get problems and it can affect taste.

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication

There is even a video to show you how.


----------



## Jony

You really should Grease your lever and cam it's a must, for longevity.


----------



## salty

DavecUK said:


> You should clean with Puly and remove the lever+cam for cleaning. If you don't you will get problems and it can affect taste.
> http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication
> There is even a video to show you how.


That's a great video - thanks to@DavecUK for so clearly showing how it's done - but the "music"?!? My ears have only just stopped bleeding!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

salty said:


> That's a great video - thanks to@DavecUK for so clearly showing how it's done - but the "music"?!? My ears have only just stopped bleeding!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Glad to see you focussing on what's important....sure to spur me on to make more helpful videos....


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> You should clean with Puly and remove the lever+cam for cleaning. If you don't you will get problems and it can affect taste.
> 
> http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication
> 
> There is even a video to show you how.


 Hi @DavecUK I now have taken the cam out to lubricate and can't get it back in.


----------



## Obidi

Obidi said:


> Hi @DavecUK I now have taken the cam out to lubricate and can't get it back in.


 The cam finally went back in, needed lots of wiggling and trying to locate until everything would screw back in. Not as easy as the vids suggest, but in nevertheless.


----------



## Jony

Sometimes it goes straight in other times takes 10/15 minutes.


----------



## DavecUK

If it's really hard you can always release some tension by partly undoing the lower part of the group....but I don't generally have too much trouble getting the cam in. Besides the vids don't lie, that was a walk up and shoot with no rehearsals.


----------



## Obidi

Jony said:


> Sometimes it goes straight in other times takes 10/15 minutes.


 Hi Jony, yes it just wouldn't locate and therefore I couldn't screw up the housing (sorry, don't know what it's called) It worked when I put the lever arm on and wiggled it with that. I'm not sure how much of the lubrication was left on the cam by the time I'd finished..............


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> If it's really hard you can always release some tension by partly undoing the lower part of the group....but I don't generally have too much trouble getting the cam in. Besides the vids don't lie, that was a walk up and shoot with no rehearsals.


 I didn't find it easy, but hopefully I'll know what to expect next time and it will be easier.


----------



## DavecUK

Obidi said:


> I didn't find it easy, but hopefully I'll know what to expect next time and it will be easier.


 Experience breeds confidence....


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> Experience breeds confidence....


 Yes, @DavecUKof course you're correct. One thing I did notice was that the cam wasn't nice and shiny, but a dark brown colour. It didn't look new - strange in a brand new machine I've only had a few weeks.


----------



## salty

DavecUK said:


> Glad to see you focussing on what's important....sure to spur me on to make more helpful videos....


I really do appreciate your videos and help and advice - and this is a great thread.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DavecUK

Obidi said:


> Yes, @DavecUKof course you're correct. One thing I did notice was that the cam wasn't nice and shiny, but a dark brown colour. It didn't look new - strange in a brand new machine I've only had a few weeks.


 You can be sure they won't have put a used one in the machine.


----------



## richwade80

Obidi said:


> I didn't find it easy, but hopefully I'll know what to expect next time and it will be easier.


It's a lot easier if you remove the cam / spindle from the 'housing'. This way you can wiggle it in much better and the slide the housing over after. And you can clean/grease up the spindle too.

If you already did this, ignore me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 9719

salty said:


> I really do appreciate your videos and help and advice - and this is a great thread.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agree totally with the above, makes a pleasant change to be talking coffee and how-tos as it used to be when I joined, instead of having to wade through all of the off subject subjects you have to fight through these days.
Keep up the good Dave & thanks

Mr ***


----------



## Obidi

I've discovered a problem this morning. The water from the showerscreen is coming through in one stream and is not stopping for my preinfusion.

@DavecUK


----------



## DavecUK

I can't see the video you posted showing the problem?


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> I can't see the video you posted showing the problem?


 I didnt post a video. The water seems to be coming through too fast and in one stream instead of several and its still running through my pre infusion. It should run for 4 secs and stop for 6 seconds, but it's continuing to run.


----------



## DavecUK

Do you believe this was caused by removal and replacement of the cam after lubricating, or have you done something else?


----------



## Obidi

DavecUK said:


> Do you believe this was caused by removal and replacement of the cam after lubricating, or have you done something else?


 It's happened since I removed the cam yesterday. I haven't done anything else. @DavecUK


----------



## Jony

How far did you lift the lever before you you removed the lever, this could be the issue


----------



## Obidi

Jony said:


> How far did you lift the lever before you you removed the lever, this could be the issue


 I lifted it to what I thought was half way. about 45degrees


----------



## Jony




----------



## Obidi

Jony said:


> How far did you lift the lever before you you removed the lever, this could be the issue


 @Jony Do I need to take it apart again?


----------



## Obidi

Jony said:


> View attachment 378
> 
> 
> View attachment 379


 Perhaps a bit higher than that.


----------



## Jony

Re-do it, and whack some more lube in. See where your at. Watch those fingers them things get hot haha


----------



## Jony

Any higher than that it opens the water.


----------



## Obidi

Jony said:


> Any higher than that it opens the water.


 I'll re-do it now. Hope for the best....thanks Jony.


----------



## Obidi

Obidi said:


> I'll re-do it now. Hope for the best....thanks Jony.


 Just starting. I raise the lever just below the point of activation of the spring?

Just a quick question. When the pump stops on the pre infusion, the water still drips. I'm sure that before I messed with the cam yesterday, this wasn't the case. The water stopped completely before starting again after 6 seconds. I'm presuming the lever's not set properly?


----------



## Jony

yep to the second picture


----------



## DavecUK

Obidi said:


> Just starting. I raise the lever just below the point of activation of the spring?
> 
> Just a quick question. When the pump stops on the pre infusion, the water still drips. I'm sure that before I messed with the cam yesterday, this wasn't the case. The water stopped completely before starting again after 6 seconds. I'm presuming the lever's not set properly?


 Really would have been easier for you to have made a short vid...however yes that would be normal for the machine to drip when the pump stops...think about it a little and you will see that it has to be so.


----------



## Obidi

Hi @DavecUK Following on from my previous posts, I've now re-done lubricating the cam, making sure to lift the lever to the neutral position before removing. The cam was easier to get in this time with a little help jiggling with the lever arm.

I have a specific question for you Dave. On the automatic pre-infusion ( 4 secs on and 6 secs off ) the pump switches off, but should the water still drip through the shower screen? It is dripping, not a clean stop of the flow. I thought that before I lubed the cam it was a clean stop of flow, but now I'm doubting myself.


----------



## Obidi

Obidi said:


> Hi @DavecUK Following on from my previous posts, I've now re-done lubricating the cam, making sure to lift the lever to the neutral position before removing. The cam was easier to get in this time with a little help jiggling with the lever arm.
> 
> I have a specific question for you Dave. On the automatic pre-infusion ( 4 secs on and 6 secs off ) the pump switches off, but should the water still drip through the shower screen? It is dripping, not a clean stop of the flow. I thought that before I lubed the cam it was a clean stop of flow, but now I'm doubting myself.


 @DavecUK Yes, there is still water in the system, it must drip. It was such a faff getting the cam in the first time, I really thought I'd done something wrong. I could have sworn the water stopped during the pre-infusion - It's my age, memory not what it used to be..........??


----------



## Obidi

richwade80 said:


> It's a lot easier if you remove the cam / spindle from the 'housing'. This way you can wiggle it in much better and the slide the housing over after. And you can clean/grease up the spindle too.
> 
> If you already did this, ignore me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Thanks Rich, I tried this, but eventually got it in with the housing but using the lever arm to wiggle it.


----------



## El carajillo

Not strictly cleaning, more maintenance.

After de-scaling my machine I noticed that the steam wand was creaking and groaning also quite stiff. (I do use Volvic).

A simple job to undo the swivel nut, catch the spring and ball seat and give them a clean with K/roll.

A light smear of our old friend Dow 111 to the seal , ball and ball seat, centre the spring and compress while refitting the nut.

Repeat on water arm ,job done. What a difference[IMG alt=":classic_biggrin:" data-emoticon=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk//coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" srcset="<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":classic_biggrin:" width="20" data-src="<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/biggrin.png[/IMG]


----------



## salty

DavecUK said:


> You should clean with Puly and remove the lever+cam for cleaning. If you don't you will get problems and it can affect taste.
> http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication
> There is even a video to show you how.


Just lubed the cam on my Lelit Mara@DavecUK. Your video and instructions were spot on and I would have struggled without them - many thanks

Tim


----------



## Gilly

Yuck!!

How many times have I witnessed 'baristas' wiping the steam wand with a cloth that looks like it's been wiped around the toilet floor. The amount of filth/bacteria that's then left on the wand for the next customers 'milky drink' must be innumerable! Then, I haven't finished; they lift the now full cup/mug/bucket by the rim not the handle to place it on your saucer; after messing with hair, nose etc.

You wouldn't eat your dinner off a plate that had just had a quick wipe with a gammy cloth so why do these filthy practices prevail do much in commercial establishments.!


----------



## Border_all

Question please I attached an image is the seal part number 1968 in the drawing the one you need removing regularly and re greasing please?


----------



## allikat

Just gave a cleanup to my little Dedica which is still in service until I have all the bits in my hands to fully commission my little old Baby.

WOW, the coffee was bad before, so much better now! Among the things coming is some caffiza to really clean up the baby before use.


----------



## Jony

Maybe 3/4 months ago I did it.

Not my favourite job.


----------



## smatty

Inspired me to clean my Gaggia, was rather nasty behind the shower screen, bit surprised any water made it through at all!


----------



## Skizz

smatty said:


> Inspired me to clean my Gaggia, was rather nasty behind the shower screen, bit surprised any water made it through at all!


 Builds up quickly doesnt it. I take the screen and block off once a week when I empty and rinse out the tank.


----------



## JamesMac

DavecUK said:


> You have had your shiny new machine for a week now, perhaps longer...or perhaps you bought it a while ago. it may have cost you the thick end of £2000 to £2500 or more for machine and grinder. You are looking at things to improve the coffee, perhaps a refractometer, new tamper, different basket, better cups, different coffees, better jug, timer, expensive scales. Yes you name it and there is a product on the market just waiting to relieve you of your hard earned readies.
> 
> To all this frippery above....I say NO, first make sure you're cleaning the machine and portafilter properly. Get those hands out of your pockets and onto the machine to give it a bit of TLC. Here is my guide for the absolute minimum cleaning regime for any E61 or E61type machine...e.g. those pumped machines with a portafilter handle, basket and 3 way valve.
> 
> *How often should you follow this cleaning regime clean = Every 2 - 3 days and daily for the portafilter handle and basket.*
> 
> 
> 
> Remove handle, remove basket. Clean both sides of basket with a non stick scrubby and detergent.
> 
> 
> Clean portafilter handle (bowl) as above
> 
> 
> Clean hole and spout/s with a small bottle brush and detergent
> 
> 
> remove shower screen, clean both sides of basket with a non stick scrubby and detergent, be gentle on gasket if still attached to screen
> 
> 
> Clean inside group, dispersion plate and gasket groove etc..with a non stick scrubby and detergent, be gentle.
> 
> 
> Inspect group gasket, of flexible and not cracked continue to use. If hard and/or cracked...replace it you cheapskate. In general gaskets should be replaced every 9 -12 months on HX machines and every 12-15 months on dual boiler machines, regardless of condition.
> 
> 
> Backflushing with cleaner doesn't really get any of this clean and it's main function is to clean the group venting system.
> 
> I know it seems excessive, but it's not and you will taste the difference, if you can't, then you should never waste your money on expensive coffee! You wouldn't use the same cup for 2 days would you, or the same spoon, people spend 1000s on acessories and kit, but many don't bother with the cleaning?
> 
> P.S. This is a less than 5m job, if it's taking you longer...you're doing it wrong.


 Excuse the novice question Dave but can I double check that a non stick scrubby is just a non scratch dish one ( new odviosuly , not nicked from the sink) and that detergent is dish soap or do you mean a chemical like pulycafe etc? I popped the shower screen out last night and gave it a brush and a soak but didn't use any soap or chemical so thought I'd double check before I pull it out again tomorrow


----------



## DavecUK

Yes, and Yes, no not pulycafe and use a toothbrush with washing up liquid (detergent or dish soap) on the shower screen.


----------



## JamesMac

DavecUK said:


> Yes, and Yes, no not pulycafe and use a toothbrush with washing up liquid (detergent or dish soap) on the shower screen.


 Grand, I'll do that tomorrow. I won't nick the wifes scrubby but can't guarantee I won't nick her spare toothbrush haha


----------



## mikebeblue

What a fabulous topic ...and so obvious if you stop to think about it. This is common sense, which unfortunately is not too common.

This has therefore promoted me to do more regular thorough cleaning.

What I really don't understand is why, if this cleaning is as beneficial as it obviously is, don't manufacturers make machines easier to clean?

Even removing the shower screen is not that easy and the screw/threads do not look as if they are designed for daily use!


----------



## El carajillo

mikebeblue said:


> What a fabulous topic ...and so obvious if you stop to think about it. This is common sense, which unfortunately is not too common.
> 
> This has therefore promoted me to do more regular thorough cleaning.
> 
> What I really don't understand is why, if this cleaning is as beneficial as it obviously is, don't manufacturers make machines easier to clean?
> 
> Even removing the shower screen is not that easy and the screw/threads do not look as if they are designed for daily use!


 Other than people who are interested in GOOD coffee would even bother to read the instructions let alone CLEAN the machine.

As you pointed out common sense is a very limited commodity. How many people even have a screwdriver to their name or can even change a fuse/ wire a plug.

In common with cars , if a light does not come on to say something is wrong of course it's alright!!!!


----------



## DavecUK

El carajillo said:


> Other than people who are interested in GOOD coffee would even bother to read the instructions let alone CLEAN the machine.
> 
> In common with cars , if a light does not come on to say something is wrong of course it's alright!!!!


 Even people (enthusiasts) who spend thousands on kit don't clean their machines nearly enough.

Totally agree with the cars comment...people just use the machines and if there is not an obvious problem, if it's not in the handbook...then they think it's all good.

I suspect many with lever machines don't remove the shower screen and clean it often enough....


----------



## hotmetal

At least with E61 shower screens they just pop off and can be easily washed every day. No tools required except maybe the handle of a group cleaning brush to help it off. On the Classic it was a PITA especially as the screw was a bit short and never wanted to go back in. E61 is much easier to clean, even whipping out the cam is no biggie once you've done it a couple of times.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## viveur

hotmetal said:


> At least with E61 shower screens they just pop off and can be easily washed every day. No tools required except maybe the handle of a group cleaning brush to help it off. On the Classic it was a PITA especially as the screw was a bit short and never wanted to go back in. E61 is much easier to clean, even whipping out the cam is no biggie once you've done it a couple of times.


 My E61 is the opposite: complete pain to remove the shower screen, I've got some paint can openers to try and lever it off and even then it really doesn't like coming out. Too much lube, or too little lube? Or is is it just my machine that's causing it (Expobar Leva DB) or the gasket (Cafelat silicone gasket)? I haven't quite managed to figure out what everyone else is doing differently...


----------



## hotmetal

Probably the gasket? I wouldn't put lube in there? I also use the Cafelat silicone rubber gaskets which I think are excellent. Not sure if lube would cause more trouble up inside the group tbh. Might be gumming it up more? Or maybe your gasket is just a tighter fit for some reason.

It's easier when cold. Mine's a bitch when hot but easy st ambient temperature. I just wait a couple of hours after the machine's been off.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## tripleshot

I came across @DavecUK series on YouTube before I even got my machine so it's been very helpful in setting a daily and weekly cleaning regime from the start, build up good habits. The more I do it the quicker it becomes.

Can I ask though, what are people's daily/weekly/monthly grinder cleaning regimes?

Also there's very little on this thread about milk wands (except the pre/post shot purge and wipe routine). I've started doing 1-2 practice steams with water and fairy every couple of days (gawd knows I need the practice!) and I purge and wipe pre/post every shot religiously but keen to know what kind of deep clean I should be doing weekly/monthly. Does Puly work on steam wands or is there something else I should be using given that milk residue can get nasty.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Nope. Pre/post purge and wipe. If the holes are small (0.9mm) consider unblocking the regularly with a pin or similar.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## espressoSquirrel

I think we need a new thread where we all confess our sins to @DavecUK I feel incredibly guilty and ashamed of what i have done in the past, and I will do my best to improve from now on now i know the error of my ways.

forgive me dave for i have sinned, it has been 3 months since my last descale.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

espressoSquirrel said:


> I think we need a new thread where we all confess our sins to @DavecUK I feel incredibly guilty and ashamed of what i have done in the past, and I will do my best to improve from now on now i know the error of my ways.
> 
> forgive me dave for i have sinned, it has been 3 months since my last descale.


Descale? You should aim for never having to descale! Use boiler friendly water!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Northern_Monkey

I give you the 1st line wall of shame gallery (if the FB linking works that is), people have varying standards... 🙈

https://m.facebook.com/pg/1stline/photos/?tab=album&album_id=405280329135&ref=page_internal


----------



## DavecUK

espressoSquirrel said:


> I think we need a new thread where we all confess our sins to @DavecUK I feel incredibly guilty and ashamed of what i have done in the past, and I will do my best to improve from now on now i know the error of my ways.
> 
> forgive me dave for i have sinned, it has been 3 months since my last descale.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Northern_Monkey said:


> I give you the 1st line wall of shame gallery (if the FB linking works that is), people have varying standards... 🙈
> 
> https://m.facebook.com/pg/1stline/photos/?tab=album&album_id=405280329135&ref=page_internal
> 
> View attachment 44239


 What 's that? That's the inside of a boiler? What's that black stuff?


----------



## mmmatron

Northern_Monkey said:


> I give you the 1st line wall of shame gallery (if the FB linking works that is), people have varying standards...
> https://m.facebook.com/pg/1stline/photos/?tab=album&album_id=405280329135&ref=page_internal
> 
> <img alt="279357FD-56A7-4614-BC02-54EBBC6D06D6.thumb.png.f4b6e61828e42a401e5e1c8b18ca5a2a.png" data-fileid="44239" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_08/279357FD-56A7-4614-BC02-54EBBC6D06D6.thumb.png.f4b6e61828e42a401e5e1c8b18ca5a2a.png" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


I went through those wall of shame pics in open mouthed horror  thanks for sharing


----------



## Northern_Monkey

@MediumRoastSteam - I think it is burnt milk and scale... 🤢

@mmmatron - I know, it was strangely compulsive and a bit gross! 😂

I pity anyone having to work in a technical service role with the general public especially where they have to handle used returned goods etc.


----------



## MildredM

Northern_Monkey said:


> @MediumRoastSteam - I think it is burnt milk and scale... 🤢
> 
> @mmmatron - I know, it was strangely compulsive and a bit gross! 😂
> 
> I pity anyone having to work in a technical service role with the general public especially where they have to uandle used returned goods etc.


 🤢🤢🤢 it really does put you off having a coffee out 😑

A friend of ours, working in a technical service role connected to cafe and restaurant kitchens, has hinted and some of the sights he has seen 😰


----------



## espressoSquirrel

the milk wand is trully disgusting, but I think I have seen worse in cafes to be honest. (none that i would drink in though) 
I once saw somebody re-heating gravy with a coffee machine steam wand too.


----------



## Jasetaylor

M'mmmm just imagine the vast array of newly creative flavour notes to describe the coffee extracted through this.










Brings to mind The worst toilet in Scotland scene from Trainspotting -


----------



## mmmatron




----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Jasetaylor said:


> M'mmmm just imagine the vast array of newly creative flavour notes to describe the coffee extracted through this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brings to mind The worst toilet in Scotland scene from Trainspotting -


 Now we just need some Lou Reed on the background... ????


----------



## mmmatron

I love the pic where they've scraped at a boiler with a screwdriver and still couldn't find the wall


----------



## Jasetaylor

Wud ya leyk a wee spot a kufee? Is got greet muddy nicotine nootes.


----------



## tripleshot

Wanted to share a couple of tools I built to retrieve lost grinds in my chute around and behind the flap (I have a Ceado E37S). I tried all sorts including brushes but just couldn't get a decent clean until I stumbled these cable ties. They are plastic so they won't scratch and flexible enough to get at the grinds in the awkward places.

The red one is for getting behind the flap. I slide it up the chute, it goes under the flap and then I wiggle it around. It usually retrieves around 0.3g of grinds which would otherwise go stale. It's not perfect (I can see compacted fines on the back of my flap in my weekly clean but it's the best I could come up with so far)

The black tool is for cleaning around the flap as there's a fair bit of retention there as well. A good poke & rotate gets grinds dislodged. I find this also reclaims around 0.3g.

Note: I use a bellows and air blower too so the above tools reclaim grinds on top of what the bellows and air blower get out (they both struggle with fines compacted around the flap, they need a good poke I find).

I don't have a solution for grinds retained on wiper arms but that's what my weekly clean is designed to target. I am still working on ideas for that as those stale grinds bother me.


----------



## hotmetal

tripleshot said:


> (I have a Ceado E37S). ...I don't have a solution for grinds retained on wiper arms but that's what my weekly clean is designed to target. I am still working on ideas for that as those stale grinds bother me.


Same grinder, and thanks for the tip with the cable ties. For the wiper arms and back of the chute I use cotton buds. Works really well. You can run them round between the burrs and chamber walls, clean the dirty edge of the wiper arms, then push them through the chute. The only drawback is they're essentially single use plastic, but I only use 2 or 3 each time I clean it out so it's not huge waste.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tripleshot

@hotmetal -- how often, if ever, do you take the burrs off to clean and what might prompt you to do that? Also, how do you clean the inside of the body of the grinder? there's lots of grinds down there resting like a comfy pillow on the circuits and also dropped a bean or two in there. I use an air blower to at least clear the circuits but would be nice to be able to hoover inside...

@all -- how many of you clean your grinder when changing to a different bean?

I realised today that the thinner blades in a Feeler Gauge Stainless Steel set (I have this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08D8XSSR4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) are super handy for those tight spaces in a grinder where fines get compacted and no brush can really do the job. I tried the 0.06mm today for the gap in between the wiper arm and bottom burr and the gunk it brought out was unbelievable. Also works well around the screws (fines seem to love screws...)

Of course I also noticed a crack in one of the screws in my top burr today but hope that's not due to obsessive cleaning!


----------



## El carajillo

It is not difficult to remove the lower burr / carrier to give access to the body/ grind chamber. All you need is a 1/2 " AF. / 13 mm metric O/E spanner and a duster.

With top removed. Place duster / wad K/roll on burr and press down heavily (L/H). Fit O/E spanner to flats on domed nut and turn CLOCKWISE ( L/H thread).

Nut should release and unscrew with fingers (DO NOT LOSE THE CONE SHAPED SPRING WASHER UNDER THE NUT) it may stick to the carrier as there is a slight recess.

NOTE WHICH WAY UP IT SITS= CONE POINT UP. Carrier lifts off with fingers (NO PULLER REQUIRED) NO LOCATING LUGS EITHER.

The carrier locks to the shaft from the tension / torque applied by the nut and cone washer.

I use meth's or I P A with K/roll to clean chamber and parts, also wipe the chute.

REVERSAL. Replace carrier, cone washer POINT UP then nut. Press firmly with on burr /carrier with duster and re-tighten nut ANTI CLOCK WISE.

If you cannot apply sufficient pressure to hold the burr / carrier you can apply pressure between the carrier and the grind chamber with a piece of wood / plastic

OR :yuk: a flat screwdriver wrapped with tape or rag.


----------



## tripleshot

I've had my espresso machine for about 3 months (Profitec pro 700) so it's probably time I did a chemical backflush (I backflush with water every 2 days). I took note of all the advice to lubricate the cam lever after a chemical backflush but I asked Bella Barista where I bought it from and they said to not dismantle the lever and lubricate as it's not necessary. They said "You will feel a slight difference in lever action after chemical flush but oils in coffee will re balance this within a few days.". To be honest I really don't want to dismantle anything if I can help it for 1) faff and 2) chance of screwing up.

thoughts?


----------



## Jony

Back flush every day and molykote it's a cam Lever


----------



## Stanic

tripleshot said:


> I've had my espresso machine for about 3 months (Profitec pro 700) so it's probably time I did a chemical backflush (I backflush with water every 2 days). I took note of all the advice to lubricate the cam lever after a chemical backflush but I asked Bella Barista where I bought it from and they said to not dismantle the lever and lubricate as it's not necessary. They said "You will feel a slight difference in lever action after chemical flush but oils in coffee will re balance this within a few days.". To be honest I really don't want to dismantle anything if I can help it for 1) faff and 2) chance of screwing up.
> 
> thoughts?


 The coffee oils will lubricate the cams eventually but until they build-up, the contact surfaces might be already damaged substantially from abrasion


----------



## tripleshot

Right but now I'm in a pickle because Bella Barista says not to do it and that's who my warranty is with


----------



## Nicknak

tripleshot said:


> Right but now I'm in a pickle because Bella Barista says not to do it and that's who my warranty is with


 I got my Profitec 700 from BB over 2 years ago , and they were fine with me doing it ... What I did find that the mushroom and lever nut were really difficult to take off without damaging the chrome .. I do mean really difficult .. I've worked on hundreds of cars in my time and have a good understanding of torque etc required for stuff .. So perhaps that is why they are reluctant as we did speak about it ..


----------



## Jony

Listen to your elders😁


----------



## Stanic

tripleshot said:


> Right but now I'm in a pickle because Bella Barista says not to do it and that's who my warranty is with


 Then don't do it, might need new cam followers in few years though


----------



## tripleshot

I just watched the video http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication and it doesn't seem that hard (video doesn't show the lubrication bit but it's the disassembly that worries me). What are the chances I might f*ck it up?! Could BB tell the cam lever has been dismantled if I go ahead?

Related question - I have continued issues with dead spots in extraction (no pattern, cone is fine, just parts of the coffee don't see water by the looks of it, using VST baskets). I've been obsessing about grind (single dosing), basket prep, I clean my shower screen/basket every 2 days, I backflush with clean water every 2 days, even replaced shower screen and gasket, checked the basket when locked in is level etc. Beans fine, this happens with different ones. Before I go back to obsessing about inconsistent grind due to single dosing and basket prep, how much does an un-backflushed E61 group head influence evenness of extraction given the above? I've run out of variables to check (aside from grind and distribution)


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

tripleshot said:


> I just watched the video http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication and it doesn't seem that hard (video doesn't show the lubrication bit but it's the disassembly that worries me). What are the chances I might f*ck it up?! Could BB tell the cam lever has been dismantled if I go ahead?
> 
> Related question - I have continued issues with dead spots in extraction (no pattern, cone is fine, just parts of the coffee don't see water by the looks of it, using VST baskets). I've been obsessing about grind (single dosing), basket prep, I clean my shower screen/basket every 2 days, I backflush with clean water every 2 days, even replaced shower screen and gasket, checked the basket when locked in is level etc. Beans fine, this happens with different ones. Before I go back to obsessing about inconsistent grind due to single dosing and basket prep, how much does an un-backflushed E61 group head influence evenness of extraction given the above? I've run out of variables to check (aside from grind and distribution)


 Backflushing / cam lube: you have to do it. If you don't, the pins will wear out prematurely. I don't think BB will invalidate your warranty because of that! In fact, it shows you are looking after the machine properly. Can you mess up? Unlikely. It's all metal. The only thing to pay attention is to not cross thread the cam lever nut when you you screw it back in. And use plastic covered jaws or put lots of electric tape around it, and cover the e61 just in case you knock it. It's brass, so very soft.

extraction: keep practising. WDT May be required, depending the grinder you have.


----------



## Stanic

tripleshot said:


> I just watched the video http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication and it doesn't seem that hard (video doesn't show the lubrication bit but it's the disassembly that worries me). What are the chances I might f*ck it up?! Could BB tell the cam lever has been dismantled if I go ahead?
> 
> Related question - I have continued issues with dead spots in extraction (no pattern, cone is fine, just parts of the coffee don't see water by the looks of it, using VST baskets). I've been obsessing about grind (single dosing), basket prep, I clean my shower screen/basket every 2 days, I backflush with clean water every 2 days, even replaced shower screen and gasket, checked the basket when locked in is level etc. Beans fine, this happens with different ones. Before I go back to obsessing about inconsistent grind due to single dosing and basket prep, how much does an un-backflushed E61 group head influence evenness of extraction given the above? I've run out of variables to check (aside from grind and distribution)


 I don't think they can tell.

It is simple, even I managed to do it..make sure the surfaces are dry before applying the lubricant. It helps to undo the bottom part a bit, when putting things together, so you don't have to wiggle the lever in with excessive force. The chances to cock up are pretty low IMO.

As for the dead spots...how does the coffee taste?


----------



## MildredM

MediumRoastSteam said:


> And use plastic covered jaws or put lots of electric tape around it, and cover the e61 just in case you knock it. It's brass, so very soft.


 That ^^^ and take your time, do it when you haven't got any distractions, take it steady and think before each stage!

(It was greasing the cam on a Rocket machine that first got me into this forum years and years ago funnily enough.)


----------



## tripleshot

Thanks. Where did you guys buy the plastic covered wrenches? Not many results on Amazon


----------



## Stanic

I use a towel 😛


----------



## MildredM

tripleshot said:


> Thanks. Where did you guys buy the plastic covered wrenches? Not many results on Amazon


 I think we got ours from ebay. I was going to take a photo but I can't put my hands on it, it must be in the garage.


----------



## richwade80

I use a socket set with a long extension on mine. Put a bit of kitchen roll around the chromed nuts to protect them. Works a treat.


----------



## PartySausage

tripleshot said:


> Thanks. Where did you guys buy the plastic covered wrenches? Not many results on Amazon


 I got these, which come with plastic jaw covers

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0186JUOA2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## Northern_Monkey

Really like the wide jaw ones from rothenberger and the hard plastic jaws hold up well.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rothenberger-wrench-10-/8558K?tc=QA2&ds_kid=92700055262507126&ds_rl=1244066&gclid=EAIaIQobChMInoTWpMuH7AIV0-ntCh2Pbg23EAQYAyABEgI5HfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


----------



## mmmatron

I use kitchen roll or electricians tape


----------



## RazorliteX

Interesting thread title and so true. One of the biggest factors in the taste seems to be backflushing the group head with pulycaff or whatever it called. Especially when changing between dark and light roasts - a good clean is the difference between night and day (pun intended).

People can spend a long time trying to dial in the grinder and brew times not managing to get that sour bright taste with a hint of bitterness out of the equation when what is really needed is a simple backflus and then fine tune the grind/volume.


----------



## Catlady101

I have never had a coffee machine nor opened one, but I have a suggestion if you want to decrease costs you could just buy these adapters ( they are for the Knipex range but check measurements - they might fit)

plastic covers for wrench

alternatively you could try searching for a "siphon wrench" - I think they go for about £20 - the knipex ones on amazon seem to come with another plier so comes to £35 ish.

if this is not at all suitable, I hope it made you giggle😸


----------



## Bobbrown

Just did my first chemical backflush at the weekend and the lever felt horrible afterwards, literally after the first flush. Definitely needed lubricating.

The nut was a real bitch to undo to get the barrel off, couldn't undo it with the soft jaws, it was just chewing them up, so I had to tape it instead. I haven't done it up nearly as tight.

Since them the pressure release valve doesn't seem so aggressive when making coffee, only when using the blind filter, any thoughts?


----------



## DavecUK

Bobbrown said:


> Since them the pressure release valve doesn't seem so aggressive when making coffee, only when using the blind filter, any thoughts?


 If it was gummed up a bit, the restriction may have made the flow seem more aggressive, like constricting a hose pipe, now it's clean.

Next time you lubricate (don't forget the spindle), depending on how old the machine is, it's worth checking for wear on the pins, they should be flat, horizontal with rounded corners. Then they wear the contact surface starts to wear at an angle. This means the bottom ppin doesn't move as much which opens the valve less, then they often don't vent as well.


----------



## Bobbrown

Thanks @DavecUK.

I'll keep an eye out for wear. I did make a point of visually inspecting everything as I went and didn't see any wear. The machine is only a few months old and has made only a couple of coffees a day. Hopefully as you suggested, it's just working a bit differently now that it's clean.

I suppose the thing that struck me as odd is that when I use a blind filter the group gets up to 10 bar and then "SPLOOSH"es when I stop it. However, when pulling a shot, if I have the paddle fully open (Lelit Bianca btw) the group still reaches 10 bar but no sploosh when I stop it. It's more like just turning a tap on for a second rather than, well, rapidly opening a high pressure valve full of water. When I had the handle off I noticed the bottom valve was much stiffer than the top. The top I could push in by hand, the bottom I could not. Not sure if this is note worthy, but I noted it none the less.

The other thing I've noticed (sorry, this is getting a bit longer than I had intended) is that since my forray into e61 maintenance the micro switch for the pump is a lot more sensitive. It will switch the pump on in the neutral, 45 degree position unless I'm super careful. The only thing I can put this down to is that maybe the bushing for the lever arm spindle isn't running completely true to the assembly and now I haven't done it up quite as tight (it was horrendously tight from the factory) maybe that quarter turn less on the nut means the handle is slightly closer to the switch? It's also marked the handle, which I assumed was normal before but now I guess I'm just questioning everything.








Thanks again

And apologies again for the long, rambling post.


----------



## DavecUK

When you flush against a blind filter, there is an awful lot of pressure right till the pump goes off. If you do it against coffee as you lower the lever, the pressure drops real fast, so much so there's much less to vent the group.

Marks from the switch wheel are normal.

Group has lower vent valve and spring remove and standard preinfusion spring replaced with a much stiffer one, so the preinfusion chamber doesn't open at all during a shot, just when you vent the group. So it feels stiffer.

Sounds like everything's fine.


----------



## Bobbrown

Thanks again 👍


----------



## Christos Chamos

Apologies if this has been posted/ asked already, but how do people clean coffee stains from the surface of their coffee machine?

Would you try vinegar?

Thanks


----------



## DavecUK

Vinegar is for chips. I'd try a soft microfibre cloth and a little soapy water first...be gentle.


----------



## Christos Chamos

DavecUK said:


> Vinegar is for chips. I'd try a soft microfibre cloth and a little soapy water first...be gentle.


 Many thanks... (I hate chips!)


----------



## DavecUK

Christos Chamos said:


> Many thanks... (I hate chips!)


 I love them but can't eat them or I will gain weight again.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> I love them but can't eat them or I will gain weight again.


 I like chips.... with mayonnaise! (Please don't burn me!) or gravy! 😊


----------



## Tinkstar

Thanks for the topic. Going to head to the gaggia section and see the best way to clean my machine... been using it daily since Christmas and I'm sure it needs a clean by now, after reading this. 5 years old this topic and still helping people 👍


----------



## Tinkstar

Should I be worried about the blackness under the rubber seal? Tried to give it a clean but its rather stubborn...

Should I be worried? Coffee shouldn't really be getting there... really.

I have just used puly and done a back wash.


----------



## Al Grandé

Great thread...just spent an hour reading it all. I will have a good cleaning regime, everytime my machine, gets used.

Now I know why @Cuprajake posted a picture of a tube molykote 111...

Thanks @DavecUK for all the informative videos. Oh and you could occasionally have Chips...


----------



## cuprajake

God yeah, and tbh the extra time is next to nowt.

What water you using in the new machinez was it you who bought the Vesuvius?


----------



## Al Grandé

Cuprajake said:


> God yeah, and tbh the extra time is next to nowt.
> 
> What water you using in the new machinez was it you who bought the Vesuvius?


 Yes, it was me...tbh I've not used it yet..I waiting on the grinder...🙄 I bought some volvic today, we normally drink Highland spring, and have been considering whether to go down the osmio route... I've been reading too many threads... a little knowledge can become dangerous 😅

Too think before I stumbled across this forum, I was going to get a sage grinder and a used Gaggia classic...😳


----------



## cuprajake

Dont use volvic in it,

Osmio is a good solution tbh, if not a little costly.

Many distill,

@Rob1 distills iirc as does @MediumRoastSteam

I use ro water as i had a marine tank.


----------



## Al Grandé

Cuprajake said:


> Dont use volvic in it,
> 
> Osmio is a good solution tbh, if not a little costly.
> 
> Many distill,
> 
> @Rob1 distills iirc as does @MediumRoastSteam
> 
> I use ro water as i had a marine tank.


 Ok thanks.

Thats what I mean about a little knowledge. I read a thread on here, about water. The consensus was to use Volvic bottle water because of its minerals.

If using ro they were saying need to add minerals to stop corrosion, but it never said whether is corrodes in 6 month or 30 years.

🤔I've not heard of iirc so will have to Google that.😏


----------



## cuprajake

Sorry iirc. Is if i remember correctly

Yeah theres a general consensus that propper rodi water is corrosive. It also wont conducted electricity so fill sensor wont work

Plain ro water still has some minerals in it hance it has a tds rating (total dissolved solids)

There was a good study done and a dr palvis worked out a recipe that used potassium bicarbonate and this is good for the flavour in espresso but will never scale your machine.

Its as easy as making a solution then adding 10ml of this concerntrate to a litre of distilled water.

Or buy an osmio and pour it in haha


----------



## Al Grandé

Cuprajake said:


> Sorry iirc. Is if i remember correctly
> 
> Yeah theres a general consensus that propper rodi water is corrosive. It also wont conducted electricity so fill sensor wont work
> 
> Plain ro water still has some minerals in it hance it has a tds rating (total dissolved solids)
> 
> There was a good study done and a dr palvis worked out a recipe that used potassium bicarbonate and this is good for the flavour in espresso but will never scale your machine.
> 
> Its as easy as making a solution then adding 10ml of this concerntrate to a litre of distilled water.
> 
> Or buy an osmio and pour it in haha


 See it gets more complicated by the minute...😅


----------



## cuprajake

It does sadly but prevention is better than cure, esp when it comes to descaling a boiler 😂😂😂


----------



## Al Grandé

Cuprajake said:


> It does sadly but prevention is better than cure, esp when it comes to descaling a boiler 😂😂😂


 Yes, that's for sure, definitely not using tap water...


----------



## Tinkstar

Question on cleaning.

Just used my puly and the no hole basket. Done the usual cleaning, then when I do it with just water it's coming out clean from the (sorry for wrong term) pressure whole / backwash hole.

My question is, how come my basket has coffee in it? I thought this was meant to backwash out.

So I emptied the basket again and put nothing in it, backwashed 5 times, and there is still a small amount of coffee in my basket...

Do I need to use puly more?

Is this normal?

Am I doing something wrong (following videos from YouTube for gaggia classic and gaggia classic sites etc) so I assume I'm doing it right...

Could something else not be clean enough?

I have removed the shower head and cleaned that before puly.


----------



## 27852

Tinkstar said:


> Question on cleaning.
> 
> Just used my puly and the no hole basket. Done the usual cleaning, then when I do it with just water it's coming out clean from the (sorry for wrong term) pressure whole / backwash hole.
> 
> My question is, how come my basket has coffee in it? I thought this was meant to backwash out.
> 
> So I emptied the basket again and put nothing in it, backwashed 5 times, and there is still a small amount of coffee in my basket...
> 
> Do I need to use puly more?
> 
> Is this normal?
> 
> Am I doing something wrong (following videos from YouTube for gaggia classic and gaggia classic sites etc) so I assume I'm doing it right...
> 
> Could something else not be clean enough?
> 
> I have removed the shower head and cleaned that before puly.


 You should also remove and clean the dispersion plate, I think that is held on by two 4mm hex screws. What I like to do it take the shower screen and block off and let it soak is some puly for a while, then clean off with a non scratch scrubbie. I then put the clean components of the group together for back flushing. Coffee oils and fine grounds will persistently stick to the dispersion plate unless physically removed. I think of the back flush to clean the lines for the solenoid as the last step in the routine.

Also, leave a good 30s between pump runs, you want the detergent to be working its magic so if you run the pump quickly in succession you are just rinsing it through.


----------



## Tinkstar

Kjk said:


> You should also remove and clean the dispersion plate, I think that is held on by two 4mm hex screws. What I like to do it take the shower screen and block off and let it soak is some puly for a while, then clean off with a non scratch scrubbie. I then put the clean components of the group together for back flushing. Coffee oils and fine grounds will persistently stick to the dispersion plate unless physically removed. I think of the back flush to clean the lines for the solenoid as the last step in the routine.
> 
> Also, leave a good 30s between pump runs, you want the detergent to be working its magic so if you run the pump quickly in succession you are just rinsing it through.


 I shall leave it longer between flushes. I was doing 10s on 10s off. Until the foam stops.

I take the shower off and the stainless steel plate with 2 Allen keys? So I clean right back.. so no clue where this coffee is coming from... thanks


----------



## 27852

Tinkstar said:


> I shall leave it longer between flushes. I was doing 10s on 10s off. Until the foam stops.
> 
> I take the shower off and the stainless steel plate with 2 Allen keys? So I clean right back.. so no clue where this coffee is coming from... thanks


 Perhaps the gasket? The stock one is rubber and can crack so maybe it's holding onto a few grounds - upgrading to a silicone one makes the process of locking in the portafilter feel a lot nicer.Try the longer marination of the detergent - are you doing this with the machine up to temp?


----------



## Tinkstar

Kjk said:


> Perhaps the gasket? The stock one is rubber and can crack so maybe it's holding onto a few grounds - upgrading to a silicone one makes the process of locking in the portafilter feel a lot nicer.Try the longer marination of the detergent - are you doing this with the machine up to temp?


 Yes I was going to make a coffee then decided to clean it and try and sort out my grinder. Was sat warming up a good hr 🤷‍♂️

Silicone is the next upgrade, infact I have one sat in a basket 🤣


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

I use a bottomless PF exclusively. I always, religiously, wash the PF snd basket with running water and wipe it dry. it's spotless, no staining, no smells, nothing. Just clean and shiny.

Question: is there any point in soaking the basket - and Maybe the PF - in PulyCaf now and again?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

For those who still believe that remedying is better than prevention... Watch this:






- Backflush your machine;
- Clean the shower screen periodically;
- Use good, boiler friendly water!


----------



## Waitforme

Wow, that machine was being used by someone who had no concept of what needs to be done to keep the machine tip top 😲

After how many shots pulled should a pullycaff detergent back flush be used rather than just a water back flush ?

300 , 500 , 1000 ? I've no idea, up until now I've been removing the shower screen cleaning above it and back flushing with blind filter and water.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

@Waitforme - If you have an E61, then I'd keep dropping the shower screen every other day or so and cleaning it (or daily, depending on usage). Every 6 weeks, backflush chemically and lube the cam.


----------



## 27852

> 11 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> For those who still believe that remedying is better than prevention... Watch this:


 That's like watching a horror movie. If the tubing was that bad I'd hate to see the inside of the boiler. I like the touch of writing RIP on the front of the drip tray.

I feel dirty in my soul and I'm off to clean my machine.


----------



## RobDGio

Might be a little off topic, but other than wiping and purging the steam wand after steaming milk, are there any other essentials to be carried out? I typically unscrew the nozzle and clean that fairly regularly but should I be doing anything in addition for the internals of the wand itself? (Using lelit Elizabeth)

doing all the other cleaning advice listed above for the group etc

thanks


----------



## 27852

RobDGio said:


> Might be a little off topic, but other than wiping and purging the steam wand after steaming milk, are there any other essentials to be carried out? I typically unscrew the nozzle and clean that fairly regularly but should I be doing anything in addition for the internals of the wand itself? (Using lelit Elizabeth)
> 
> doing all the other cleaning advice listed above for the group etc
> 
> thanks


 5x10s of steam into a solution of detergent and 500ml water. 10x10s into clean water to rinse!


----------



## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I use a bottomless PF exclusively. I always, religiously, wash the PF snd basket with running water and wipe it dry. it's spotless, no staining, no smells, nothing. Just clean and shiny.
> 
> Question: is there any point in soaking the basket - and Maybe the PF - in PulyCaf now and again?


 Shiny basket! I take the screen, dispersion plate, screw, and basket and put it into a container with some puly and hot water for the Osmio for a soak. That then sits on the drip tray and I use that solution to give the exposed part of the group a clean with a brush and cloth. Once I put the shower screen etc back on, the machine goes on for the patented Hrybrid Backflish (TM). I keep a blind basket in the Lelit PF handle exclusively for backflushing.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> Shiny basket! I take the screen, dispersion plate, screw, and basket and put it into a container with some puly and hot water for the Osmio for a soak. That then sits on the drip tray and I use that solution to give the exposed part of the group a clean with a brush and cloth. Once I put the shower screen etc back on, the machine goes on for the patented Hrybrid Backflish (TM). I keep a blind basket in the Lelit PF handle exclusively for backflushing.
> 
> View attachment 57984


 Thanks for replying. I also keep the blind basket in the lelit PF and do a hybrid backflush every two weeks. However, I never bothered to soak the basket into PulyCaf, nor the shower screen nor the dispersion plate. I did with the basket and shower screen once, but never really found worthwhile. I always rinse my coffee basket and shower screen after each shot. it's only me who drinks coffee so I don't make serial shots.

Do you notice any difference in terms of taste/cleanliness after soaking in Puly?


----------



## JahLaza

I put the whole portafilter head, shower screen, and dispersion plate into a hot puly caf solution last week for the first time and also got a nice shiny clean result, like Kjk's picture above.That's the first time I cleaned them that way (I normally wash these in warm soapy water) and was pleasantly surprised with the shiny result. I didn't notice any difference in taste but the components weren't very dirty prior to this anyway. I will repeat this every now and then I guess


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## MediumRoastSteam

@JahLaza If you are not using a bottomless PF, then yes, you definitely need to soak in puly once a every week or so, depending on usage.


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## JahLaza

Yes, I don't have a bottomless (yet!), so will need to maintain that level of cleanliness. I make about 6 coffees per day, clean the pf by soaking in warm soapy water every second evening or so but intend to increase that to every evening and wash it in puly caf weekly


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## 27852

@MediumRoastSteam I'm not sure as I've always done it this way. It's more if I'm bothering to unscrew it I may as well soak the whole thing and remove what I can before the back flush.

It's shiny and I know it's clean, so that makes me feel good, which is enough for me!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> @MediumRoastSteam I'm not sure as I've always done it this way. It's more if I'm bothering to unscrew it I may as well soak the whole thing and remove what I can before the back flush.
> 
> It's shiny and I know it's clean, so that makes me feel good, which is enough for me!


 I'll give it a go! Thanks!


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## MediumRoastSteam

JahLaza said:


> clean the pf by soaking in warm soapy water every second evening


 That doesn't remove any of the coffee oils, so I'm not sure if there's any point in doing so.


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## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'll give it a go! Thanks!


 Let me know if it tastes better, then there is more in it than me just feeling compelled.

Another good test would be to do the back flush without dropping the screen and seeing how clean those parts get with the detergent and back flush alone. I would never allow myself to do it though!


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## MediumRoastSteam

Kjk said:


> Another good test would be to do the back flush without dropping the screen and seeing how clean those parts get with the detergent and back flush alone. I would never allow myself to do it though!


 Oh! I've done that, many times, pretty sure there's a post about that on the Elizabeth thread. With my routine to wipe the shower screen clean with a sponge cloth after every session, I found that backflushing does a pretty good job in keeping the dispersion plate and shower screen clean.


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## P1Fanatic

Awaiting delivery of a new Appartamento and reading up on what kinda cleaning schedule I need to run on it. I already have Puly Caf but what type of lube is required for the cam? Something like this maybe:

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/waterproof-valve-silicone-grease.html


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## JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That doesn't remove any of the coffee oils, so I'm not sure if there's any point in doing so.


 Now! Love that puly caf


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## MediumRoastSteam

@JahLaza - Show us under the basket (i.e.: inside the portafilter)! That's where all the oils are. 🙂


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## JahLaza

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @JahLaza - Show us under the basket (i.e.: inside the portafilter)! That's where all the oils are. 🙂


 Right ok! Here, I've noticed this has started in the last week or so, tried scrubbing it after puly caf this evening but didn't budge


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## MediumRoastSteam

i think that's chromed brass. So don't scrub too much. AFAIK, that's absolutely normal. So don't worry about it. Looks good!


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## JahLaza

Yes I had been told it's chrome coated brass so I've just been using a toothbrush but that was only in one square centimetre type size a week ago and has been growing, but as you say nothing to worry about. I'll plan on getting a bottomless soon anyway to highlight my bad prep etc. 😌


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## P1Fanatic

Got my first machine finally (Rocket Appartatemento) and working out a cleaning routine / schedule. On reading the provided manual for a daily backflush it states:

*While the brew water is flowing, loosely insert the pf into the grouphead, rotating the pf back and forth. Keep emptying the blind basket of water and old grounds until the water runs clear.*

However I thought the idea was to build pressure with the blind basket and force it back (hence the name backflush) and every E61 video I watch says just insert the pf with blind basket, pull the lever for 5 secs or so and release and watch the water come out of the release valve. Repeat 4-5 times. Rocking the PF back and forth seems unnecessary and more messy - unless I am missing something?


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## DavecUK

@P1Fanatic You are not missing anything....and are completely correct. If you want to clean the area around the gasket, it's far more effective, and uses less water to get something like this:


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## MediumRoastSteam

@P1Fanatic think what that's doing is cleaning around the group. Why bother. Instead, drop the shower screen daily or every other day, clean the screen, clean the gasket, clean around the group and refit. Will take less time and be less messy than that routine above.

I'm not sure if there's much value in backflushing an E61 daily with water. Maybe every few days? Keeping the group clean by removing the shower screen and gasket and cleaning around it far better than the routine described above.

PS: The above brush is...

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pallo-group-head-brush-changeable-head.html


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## P1Fanatic

Thanks guys. I have a brush (one came with the machine) so will do that at the end of the day and then drop the screen every couple of days (did that for the first time yesterday). Less backflushing is definitely preferred as I am feeding the machine Volvic.


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## atkinsd91

I'm completely new here, as well as to the world of coffee machines. It sounds like this post regarding cleaning is intended for super high end machines, but is there any applicability with this in relation to keeping the coffee great from my De'Longhi PrimaDonna ECAM650.85? If so, what parts of it would you say were best focused on in respect of cleaning? Thank you!


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## DavecUK

atkinsd91 said:


> I'm completely new here, as well as to the world of coffee machines. It sounds like this post regarding cleaning is intended for super high end machines, but is there any applicability with this in relation to keeping the coffee great from my De'Longhi PrimaDonna ECAM650.85? If so, what parts of it would you say were best focused on in respect of cleaning? Thank you!


 focus on the brew group inside (you don't want mould), front dispensing area and milk system.


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## atkinsd91

DavecUK said:


> focus on the brew group inside (you don't want mould), front dispensing area and milk system.


 When you say brew group, would this be what is described as the 'infuser' on my machine? That's about as internal cleaning as I can get with this machine I think?


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## DavecUK

@atkinsd91 The bit inside that the coffee falls into when ground and water enters with a piston type affair.


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## atkinsd91

DavecUK said:


> @atkinsd91 The bit inside that the coffee falls into when ground and water enters with a piston type affair.


 Yeah, I think that'd be the 'infuser' on my machine? Perhaps someone else could possibly confirm as well just to make sure?


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## P1Fanatic

A tip that may help others. Think I read it on Facebook Rocket Owners group. I was using a teaspoon to prize out the shower screen and gasket. Just upgraded to the IMS nanotech screen and didn't fancy scratching the nanotech coating. Saw someone recommend using a plastic bicycle tyre removal tool. Dug one out of my toolbox and oh yes works a treat. Actually works better than the spoon and no chance of scratching anything.


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## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm not sure if there's much value in backflushing an E61 daily with water. Maybe every few days?


 I backflush with water after the last shot of every day. When doing it, there is always some dirt in the blind basket, so I assume it is doing something - I prefer to have this dirt out of the group than leave it in. 😂 Obviously dropping the screen for cleaning does more, so I do that too, though not every day.


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## 27852

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Oh! I've done that, many times, pretty sure there's a post about that on the Elizabeth thread. With my routine to wipe the shower screen clean with a sponge cloth after every session, I found that backflushing does a pretty good job in keeping the dispersion plate and shower screen clean.


 I've modified my routine to put all the bits I want to clean in the drip tray so they get a detergent soak as I am doing the two backflushes. I put the basket with my puck screens under the outlet of the OPV for the first manual flushes ti get detergent in there and then let rip with Lelit's cycle. Empty the back flush basket and fill with hot water for the rinse and I'm I'll good. Saves water and a bit of time compared to removing everything and soaking it separately ahead of the main event.

The first time I did this I removed the shower screen and dispersion plate after the whole routine finished and am now satisfied the back flush cycle gets it clean. I don't bother with taking it off anymore.

Another big thing was buying the Shades of Coffee puck screens. No more stuck pucks and the shower screen stays extremely clean. I now back flush every 2 weeks.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Reminder to not only clean your machine, but also to use suitable water!






And that's not even from a dual boiler... 😞


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## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Reminder to not only clean your machine, but also to use suitable water!


 😲

I think the water used for the machine in the video was too soft. With harder water it might have failed earlier and gotten a clean a bit sooner. 😉


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## ChrisKon

How about the inside of the machine? How often would you suggest getting your machine serviced? I've had my Mara X for a year now and considering servicing it..


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