# New to pour over and really struggling.



## ValeTudoGuy (Aug 20, 2018)

I'm hoping someone can help me please, I have got myself in a right mess trying to learn pour over during the last couple of days and barely anything seems to be working. I will try and be succinct but I have ended up with three different setups.

Coffee, grinder, measures and gooseneck kettle remain the absolute same.

Firstly, my wife bought me a stainless steel cone filter. It's nothing expensive, the 'E-PRANCE' FROM Amazon.

I tried it using the Delonghi KG79 that I have used for year's when making French Press. Setting was pretty much exactly in the middle.

I set up to make a 14gram (1/2Oz) pour to get a final 210-220gram (8ish Oz) drink. I do a 30 second bloom and then the pour goes well to about half way (roughly 4mins) at which point it slows down to nothing and stays this way even if left to 12-15 mins. No amount of stiring or agitation helps.

Ok I think, it's too fine. I dial right over to as course as I can go..... Exactly the same result every single time even with a number of settings in between.

I think, ok... It's the device so I pick up a ceramic 3 holes at the bottom cone and use Melitta unbleached filter papers. Set it in the middle for grind again. 30 second bloom, pour in... Boom water absolutely flies through in under 40 seconds. Ok I think, it's too course. Dial it over the finest setting... Still fully pouring through in under 1min 30seconds.

Coffee tastes awful from everything up to now... Except the first half from the metal filter which tastes pretty good, but who wants half a cup and waste a full dose of coffee?

I think, ok I will have one last go and bear with me on this. I cut the top off of a 2L pop bottle effectively making a cone funnel when the lid is removed. I put exactly the same kind of Melitta filter in and exactly the same finest setting that was getting me about 1min 30 on the ceramic cone.

I get a full cup in just under 3 mins and the coffee is drinkable at least, but does not taste as good as the first half of the pour from the metal filter.

So please, before I just give up and go back to French press for long drinks, can anyone help to restore my sanity?


----------



## Hal (Dec 6, 2020)

ValeTudoGuy said:


> I'm hoping someone can help me please, I have got myself in a right mess trying to learn pour over during the last couple of days and barely anything seems to be working. I will try and be succinct but I have ended up with three different setups.
> 
> Coffee, grinder, measures and gooseneck kettle remain the absolute same.
> 
> ...


 Not sure if it is any help but after having a few average pour over coffees, I tried this method..........


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The ceramic thing with 3 holes is it the Bartleet porcelain dripper, or similar?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bartleet-Sons-1750-T262-Traditional/dp/B007SLALSU#ace-g3536363283

Set the De Longhi to 14 (coarsest but 1 setting).

Make sure your dose is 14.0g before it goes into the brewer (though the KG79 has excellent dose consistency).

Bloom 30g for 40s, give the blooming coffee a couple of strokes back & forth with a spoon, down the length of the groove.

At 0:40 pour 60g(up to 90g total) in a spiral, takes about 20s for the pour.

At 1:20 Pour up to 150g total, start around the edge & bring to centre pour.

At 2:00 you should still have some liquid over the bed, pour straight down the middle up to 210g total. Pour takes almost the full 40s.

No shaking, swirling or stirring (except for initial light stir at bloom).

Report time of dry bed & taste perception.

I have this set up, I'll also make a brew after lunch & report back.


----------



## ValeTudoGuy (Aug 20, 2018)

MWJB said:


> The ceramic thing with 3 holes is it the Bartleet porcelain dripper, or similar?


 Yes it's almost identical to that! It may actually be the exact same!

Thank you. When I get home this evening I will try exactly what you have laid out for me and see how I get on.

Thanks for taking the time!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> The ceramic thing with 3 holes is it the Bartleet porcelain dripper, or similar?
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bartleet-Sons-1750-T262-Traditional/dp/B007SLALSU#ace-g3536363283
> 
> ...


 OK, so my brew was done at 3:44, somewhat under extracted. At least we have a direction to work in now.

So my next move is to go for 4 pours rather than 3. Maybe with a click finer.

Bloom 30g/40s with stir.

00:40 Pour up to 75g in spiral

1:20 Pour up to 120g start round edge to centre

2:00 Pour up to 165g as above

2:40 Pour up to 210g total.

I'll maybe do another around 4pm.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> OK, so my brew was done at 3:44, somewhat under extracted. At least we have a direction to work in now.
> 
> So my next move is to go for 4 pours rather than 3. Maybe with a click finer.
> 
> ...


 OK, so the extra pour stretched out the pour rate and I got a higher extraction in 4:20. Perhaps a bit of silt coming through, so I'm going finer to 12 back to the original 3 pour regime (30g/90g/150g/210g at 40s intervals).


----------



## ValeTudoGuy (Aug 20, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Set the De Longhi to 14 (coarsest but 1 setting).
> 
> Make sure your dose is 14.0g before it goes into the brewer (though the KG79 has excellent dose consistency).
> 
> ...


 Incredible!

I just followed this as precisely as I could and got a dry bed at 3:52. The coffee is also the best I have had out.

The moral of the story appears to be that I am an idiot who has no clue about pour over technique.

I am going to follow your follow up posts and see how it affects my results.

Again, thank you very much. 👍😁


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

It's only obvious when you know roughly where you are, regarding 'square one', then how to steer from there.  Good luck & let us know how it goes.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> OK, so the extra pour stretched out the pour rate and I got a higher extraction in 4:20. Perhaps a bit of silt coming through, so I'm going finer to 12 back to the original 3 pour regime (30g/90g/150g/210g at 40s intervals).


 Tried this and I think I went too fine at 12. result was essentially the same as at 14. I think the bed may be too cloggy at 12, so will be going coarser to 13/14 again. Slowing the pour with 7x30gx30s. 10-15s per pour, first a spiral, all very gentle, no stir.


----------



## ValeTudoGuy (Aug 20, 2018)

MWJB said:


> OK, so my brew was done at 3:44, somewhat under extracted. At least we have a direction to work in now.
> 
> So my next move is to go for 4 pours rather than 3. Maybe with a click finer.
> 
> ...


 I did this and got similarly longer extraction.

I preferred the first method from a taste point of view.

I will continue to test. 👍


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ValeTudoGuy said:


> I did this and got similarly longer extraction.
> 
> I preferred the first method from a taste point of view.
> 
> I will continue to test. 👍


 My last 2 brews were at 13 grind, but with a slowed pour. No stir of the bloom (the increased number of pours will make up for the stir).

Either 7 pours of 30g every 30s, each pour taking 15s, then 10 pours of 21g every 20s (sounds fiddly, but it's not too bad 21, 42, 63 etc up to 210g). Extractions were very similar, I slightly preferred the last one, but that could well just be natural variation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aHJbb7ZZ3iBTcfISiOGMqefLqKowcwOPcL7RTxJm5lE/edit?usp=sharing

If you think you could tolerate it a shade weaker, you could always just add another 5-10g of brew water after the end of the last pour interval (20 or 30s after last pour).


----------



## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

When you pour like this do you ever get a dry bed? Or will the grounds alwasy be under water?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Cuprajake said:


> When you pour like this do you ever get a dry bed? Or will the grounds alwasy be under water?


 It doesn't really matter if the coffee tastes good and you stay consistent with the pouring. At the first small pulse, it's hard to see anyway with all the puffing up/outgassing. But today, there seemed to be a little liquid over the bed at all times after the first couple of pours.

Even if you do see dry bed for a few seconds, there will still be flow from the output of the brewer.


----------



## Koli (Nov 21, 2020)

Yea, hoffmans video is a great tutorial... Try a faster papers maybe?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> My last 2 brews were at 13 grind, but with a slowed pour. No stir of the bloom (the increased number of pours will make up for the stir).
> 
> Either 7 pours of 30g every 30s, each pour taking 15s, then 10 pours of 21g every 20s (sounds fiddly, but it's not too bad 21, 42, 63 etc up to 210g). Extractions were very similar, I slightly preferred the last one, but that could well just be natural variation.
> 
> ...


 I mostly have 7oz cups so usually limit my brew water to 210g. But making larger brews can push extraction on, so (still at 13 grind) I upped dose to 15.5g and poured 240g of brew water total, in 8 pulses of 30g every 30s, each one taking ~15s, all in by 3:46. This upped the extraction by about a % and gave the best result I have had with this coffee so far (irrespective of brewer or grinder).


----------

