# Gaggia Classic 2011 Vs 2015 - old vs new showdown / catfight



## jimbojohn55

For this less than scientific smackdown the following machines were used

2011 Classic - Romania - old style 1300w 80ml aluminium boiler

2015 Classic - Romania - new style 1050w 250ml stainless steel boiler

and here we have our contenders









on theft the 2011 on the right the 2015

the 2011 classic was sold to me through the forum by smokybarn - it has had very little use from new and when I changed the seals I found no sign of any scale anywhere inc the opv. the only thing changed from original equipment were the two thermostats at they were both low temps when tested, The opv on the 2011 is also set at 10 Bar the 2015 is 10Bar out of the factory - well mine was!

Preperation - both descale - both shower screens cleaned - both didn't need this

Both machines turned on for 15 min warm up (2015 turns off at 10m as power saving eu palava so turned back on for final 5 mins)

Test 1 temperature of 30ml water dispensed through shower screen into shot glass

2011 - 70 C 2015 - 71 C

Test 2 Time taken to raise 175ml of tap water to 70 C using the steam arm

2011 - 44 sec 2015 - 45 sec

test 3 to dispense200ml of water through the group head (pump flow)

2011 - 22sec 2015 - 30 secs

so in this less than scientific comparison - it seams there is little to no difference, both make great coffee, both have OPV valves although in different places

PS - I'm not convinced the 2015 boiler is 250ml - I'm still checking this out


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## Jumbo Ratty

jimbojohn55 said:


> on theft the 2011 on the right the 2015
> 
> Test 1 temperature of 30ml water dispensed through shower screen into shot glass
> 
> 2011 - 70 C 2015 - 71 C


Id be interested to see the figures for a longer pour, say 60ml.

also, was any attempt made to temp surf ?

was the vessel used to catch the pour at the same pre pour temp for both attempts?

just curious as the figures are so alike.

Id have thought if you did the same experiment with just one machine I would expect some fluctuation of the temp given what stage the machine was in in its heat cycle


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## jimbojohn55

will have a go at 60ml tomorrow - I had to pack away and start tea so I looked busy before my other half came home through the rain and found me messing about!

Temp surf no

same size vessels were used both at room temp - cups !

its all a bit less than scientific as the temp gauge is a milk froth one, its all I got


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## tdfg7583

Interesting to see! I guess there's some variation with the 2015's out of the factory. My one's pressure is at 11.5 bar, it seems. You might have lucked out with your example


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## jimbojohn55

tdfg7583 said:


> Interesting to see! I guess there's some variation with the 2015's out of the factory. My one's pressure is at 11.5 bar, it seems. You might have lucked out with your example


you know you can adjust the opv in the 2015 ? ive not done it but others have, I believe its a just a case of turning the brass nut on OPV located just above the pump


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## jimbojohn55

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Id be interested to see the figures for a longer pour, say 60ml.
> 
> Here are the scores on the doors for the 60ml pours - using accurate brewing thermometer also vessles heat stabilised in shared hot water tub between tests
> 
> 2011 / 2015
> 
> machines on for 15 min to heat up - no portafilter - water straight into cups / both tanks filled from same tap and the temp checked
> 
> 52 F / 59 F - COLD ESPRESSO CUPS
> 
> 3 min pause
> 
> 68 F / 72 F - WARMED CUPS
> 
> 3min pause
> 
> 66 F / 75 F - WARMED CUPS
> 
> So both showing the importance of pre warming the cups as well as a variance of 2-3 degrees
> 
> The 2015 4-7 F hotter, although this could be an individual machine variance.
> 
> of interest maybe was running a shot if 14g dialled in to 30g extraction in 30sec on the 2011 model through the 2015 model - result 50 seconds to get to 30g - not suprising as we know that the 2015 has slower flow rate from the pump, good or bad I don't know
> 
> suggestions, observations ?


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## Jumbo Ratty

jimbojohn55 said:


> suggestions, observations ?


only question I have is where in the heat cycle the tests were done?

Ideally i guess they should be done straight after the light has come on after its been off (after the machines have been on for 15 mins)


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## jimbojohn55

Jumbo Ratty said:


> only question I have is where in the heat cycle the tests were done?
> 
> Ideally i guess they should be done straight after the light has come on after its been off (after the machines have been on for 15 mins)


Hi Jumboratty

correct - just as the light came on - so they had just finished the heat up cycle.

Just thinking would be good to compare results, do you still have both? you could do the same tests.

cheers Jim


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## Jumbo Ratty

yeah, ive still got both.

Just cant remember if the 2015 one is in the loft or under the stairs.

i'll be going up the loft sometime soon to get the tree down.

Havent got a thermometer though


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## igrnt

The larger boiler sounds like it might be better for more consistent steam? I used to have an Evolution, and steaming milk for two cups of coffee required some surfing and fiddling. Trying to decide whether the 2015 Classic is worth it over the older one based on this. Has anyone got opinions on whether the new boiler is better?


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## jimbojohn55

Having faffed about with both - I think the new boiler is better, particularly if making more than one cup. My theory is that the element of the 2015 stays on longer as its heating the bigger boiler. Do I have a favourite ? no , although I am using the older model at the moment - I think I will have to sell one of them soon though although I don't know which.


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## Samduncombe

I'm wondering would timer plug turn on the new classic or does that push button have to be pressed time to wake it up/turn it on?


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## Jumbo Ratty

Timer plugs dont overcome the 9minute switch off afaik


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## Samduncombe

Some clever person must be able to sort a work around, maybe a microbit or raspberry pi project... Simple timer to toggle a switch .. Lol simple, I'd have no clue...


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## igrnt

Does the older model also have the 9 minute turn off thing I am reading about?


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## Glenn

No, only introduced in 2015 model.

The older models stay on until switched off manually.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Glenn said:


> No, only introduced in 2015 model.
> 
> The older models stay on until switched off manually.


Out of curiosity, if the 2015 models shut-off after 9 minutes of activity, how do you warm them up? Are they up to temp and ready in 9 minutes?


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## Glenn

Most machines are up to temp in the boiler within that time.

The issue is that the remaining metal parts that come into contact with the water are not heated and therefore absorb the heat before it gets to the puck, leading to a reduced brewing temperature.


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## GrahamS

there was a pic of the inside of a new silvia and the timer looked very easy to bypass. I guess the classic would be similar.


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## ChiangMaiKevin

Can you post more pics of the 2015 opv?... was it at 15 bars out of the box?


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## Jumbo Ratty

ChiangMaiKevin said:


> Can you post more pics of the 2015 opv?... was it at 15 bars out of the box?


10 bar out the box approx at the portafilter

All you need here

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?34908&p=458963#post458963


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## ChiangMaiKevin

Is the new model only sold in the UK/EU market?... I am looking to buy one and am located in Thailand... all the Dept Stores and specialty coffee shops here sell the older rocker switch models... also when I went the the US Gaggia website they feature the rocker switch model... https://www.gaggia-usa.com/gaggia-classic-ss-brushed-stainless-steel-semi-automatic-espresso-machine-1


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## jimbojohn55

I say - well bugger me - those lucky blighters across the pond are still able to get there hands on a pre 2015 1425W model still built to the old design!!

If I were you @ChiangMaiKevin I would buy the older design it is just as good and more reliable / easier to fix. The later 2015 model was developed because of European regulations - lower power, auto turn off - the original design is tried and tested and will roll on and on producing great coffee.



ChiangMaiKevin said:


> Is the new model only sold in the UK/EU market?... I am looking to buy one and am located in Thailand... all the Dept Stores and specialty coffee shops here sell the older rocker switch models... also when I went the the US Gaggia website they feature the rocker switch model... https://www.gaggia-usa.com/gaggia-classic-ss-brushed-stainless-steel-semi-automatic-espresso-machine-1


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## burmanm

jimbojohn55 said:


> If I were you @ChiangMaiKevin I would buy the older design it is just as good and more reliable / easier to fix. The later 2015 model was developed because of European regulations - lower power, auto turn off - the original design is tried and tested and will roll on and on producing great coffee.


Definitely this. The older model has just about every symptom documented and it's easy to modify (such as the steam wand - far more complex in the new model).


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## extraman

Samduncombe said:


> Some clever person must be able to sort a work around, maybe a microbit or raspberry pi project... Simple timer to toggle a switch .. Lol simple, I'd have no clue...


I will have a look at that PCB in a few days, since i own a 2015 model and developing a custom PID controller for the thing. I haven't pulled the PCB out of the machine yet, but saw some pics online and it should be a simple job to change the 9 min limit. I'll let you guys know about my findings. Cheers.


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## Samduncombe

extraman said:


> I will have a look at that PCB in a few days, since i own a 2015 model and developing a custom PID controller for the thing. I haven't pulled the PCB out of the machine yet, but saw some pics online and it should be a simple job to change the 9 min limit. I'll let you guys know about my findings. Cheers.


Hi, this hadhas been been sorted now. I have a pid from auber and they pointed out a simple wire from one switch to another to prevent auto turn off. Haven'tnt tried it as actually not had a need to


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## Rj_d2

Wow I'm really confused which is the better option so many different opinions although most seem to favour the older.


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## Roomanald

Samduncombe said:


> Hi, this hadhas been been sorted now. I have a pid from auber and they pointed out a simple wire from one switch to another to prevent auto turn off. Haven'tnt tried it as actually not had a need to


Could you provide the details of which wire in particular? I am in the process of mod'ing the ri9403 too.


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## giorgiolopez

Hello guys,

can you attach a pression gauge like this

https://www.maxicoffee.com/images/jauge-pression-concept-art.jpg.pagespeed.ce.flYHEAVQ17.jpg

to the Gaggia classic 2015 model? I read such a gauge needs a 3-way valve to be used without risk of damaging the machine and I don't know if the new classic has one. If not, how do you check the pressure that comes out-of-the box ?

Thanks


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