# E61 disassembly problem



## louiscar

Just my luck as I decided to do a bit of lubrication on my Rocket Cellini Evo2 lever, I came across a problem that no one seems to document.

The inner nut (the one that attaches directly to the body of the E61 with teflon washer) just will not budge whatever I do.

The whole assembly flexes alarmingly and I really don't want to push it as it may damage the assembly or the spanner will eventually slip and round the nut facets.

This must have been over-tightened at factory (the machine is only 3 years old). I've tried this hot and cold and everywhere in between temperature wise. In desparation (and it is desparation) I've just put the old WD40 on it but can't see that penetrating frankly.

Any suggestions I can try? Anyone else had this problem?

Edit: got it!! 

I ended up putting some books under the portafilter handle to stop the flexing and finally the nut cracked off. Phew!


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## Dylan

The top nut on my VBM was an absolute bastard to get off as the machine was heavily scaled.

There are a few ways to help remove a nut, mostly covered here:






Science!

For me, a few taps with a hammer on the other end of the spanner broke the built up calcium and loosened the nut. The group on mine was also flexing on its mount (its mounted on a thinish bit of steel and two copper pipes) but using impact allowed me to undo it without it flexing.


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## AMCD300

Have you tried heating the nut up with a cook's blow torch? You want the nut to be hotter (and therefore expand quicker) than the screw thread it connects too so using this method rather than trying to loosen it at brew head temperature 'may' do the job. I am not familiar with the machine and you will have to determine if it is safe to use a blow torch in this area. Just a thought as you are at the desperate stage!


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## louiscar

AMCD300 said:


> Have you tried heating the nut up with a cook's blow torch? You want the nut to be hotter (and therefore expand quicker) than the screw thread it connects too so using this method rather than trying to loosen it at brew head temperature 'may' do the job. I am not familiar with the machine and you will have to determine if it is safe to use a blow torch in this area. Just a thought as you are at the desperate stage!


Thanks to you both for your replies. I did edit my original post as I managed to crack it in the end.

Maybe the wd40 did work its way in but the key here I think was to stop the flexing so I put something under the portafilter handle to stop that and finally the nut gave.

It's all back together now and lubricated - I noticed some scratches on the cam shaft which aren't too bad but probably will need replacing in a year or so. Other than that, thankfully, all is well.


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## espressotechno

A car mechanic gave this tip to loosen a stubborn nut/bolt: Instead of a steady pull on the spanner, jerk the spanner or hit the spanner with a hammer.

Works for me every time.....


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## AMCD300

Glad you did it - that was a tough nut to crack (sic!)


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## hotmetal

I initially had the same thing, but less severe. For me, letting the machine cool helped enough. I didn't use any penetrating fluid of any kind - but to avoid flexing the mount I locked the PF in and held that steady with my left hand while applying torque to the nut with my right. Yes it was stiffer than I initially anticipated, but thankfully not as hard as the OP's experience. It's all lovely again now and I was careful not to over tighten on reassembly. Glad you got yours done in the end.


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## AL1968

This prooves the point of regular maintenance if you leave things too long they will seize as the threads oxidize even without the influence of scale build up. The sharp crack suggestion should work which transfers the force through to the thread. I bought the adjustable spanner recommended by others on this forum but found that the protective jaw covers caused it to slip. Best advice I can give is to buy the exact sizes of spanners you need and make sure they are decent quality. If they fit exactly they shouldn't scratch the nut surface. After you've done this for the first time the problem of flexing the machines body reduces significantly.


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## PeterF

Yes I agree use good quality spanners & not adjustable types, which are no good for tight fitting jobs. Also smear some food grade silicon gel on the nut thread before tightening up, then next time it will come off easier.


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## dsc

AMCD300 said:


> Have you tried heating the nut up with a cook's blow torch? You want the nut to be hotter (and therefore expand quicker) than the screw thread it connects too so using this method rather than trying to loosen it at brew head temperature 'may' do the job. I am not familiar with the machine and you will have to determine if it is safe to use a blow torch in this area. Just a thought as you are at the desperate stage!


Surely if you just heat up the bolt it will expand and lock up more on the threaded hole which theoretically remains cold (it doesn't of course as the heat transfers over to the hole as well). Heating up the hole would make much sense, but its not possible to heat up joint parts in isolation anyway, so this would probably not work either. Heating up the whole thing to break up gunk and glue is another story altogether of course and works.

As for stuck bolts, impact the buggers out ie. whats been suggested, whack the wrench / allen key with a hammer, it should break the initial friction and loosen it all up.

T.


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## Dylan

dsc said:


> Surely if you just heat up the bolt it will expand and lock up more on the threaded hole which theoretically remains cold (it doesn't of course as the heat transfers over to the hole as well). Heating up the hole would make much sense, but its not possible to heat up joint parts in isolation anyway, so this would probably not work either. Heating up the whole thing to break up gunk and glue is another story altogether of course and works.
> 
> As for stuck bolts, impact the buggers out ie. whats been suggested, whack the wrench / allen key with a hammer, it should break the initial friction and loosen it all up.
> 
> T.


I think you heat the bolt and its surrounds and the change in size just frees the locked bolt. I have seen the mechanics at my garage blowtorching a bolt if it refuses to budge.


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## Coffeeyes

I have this exact problem on my Alex Duetto IV - and I cannot for the life of me get it to move (have tried the various methods suggest above).

Luckily, the top valve seems to be in relatively good nick, but eventually I fear this might mean a new group head unless anyone has any more tricks I can try!


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## DavecUK

Coffeeyes said:


> I have this exact problem on my Alex Duetto IV - and I cannot for the life of me get it to move (have tried the various methods suggest above).
> 
> Luckily, the top valve seems to be in relatively good nick, but eventually I fear this might mean a new group head unless anyone has any more tricks I can try!


 Which nut are you talking about (I think the original poster was talking about the nut on the side of the group (lever spindle nut) and what have you tried...welcome to the forum.


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