# Dosing Method



## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm interested in peoples dosing methods.

I have an mc2 with a timer so i used to set the timer to output around 16g into a small plastic cup. At the time, my scales were 1g and i could normally hit "16g". I then bought some 0.1 g scales and found the dose was varying a bit. Anyway i could adjust by grinding a tad more or losing a bit to get to 16g.

I then started single dosing by weighing out 16g beans. I could get 16g out of the grinder by a hooking out most of the retained grinds. Starting and stopping a few times usually did the trick. Then i read about the inconsistency that single dosing could cause if the beans popcorned (which they did) so i tried putting a tamper on top of the beans.

To try and get better grind consistency i went back to leaving some beans in the hopper and for a few weeks i tried grinding into the portafilter, then weighing. I still found the dose weight a bit inconsistent (up or down by 0.5g or so). Adjusting the weight is a bit more of a faff when handling the portafilter so i have gone back to the plastic cup method.

i'm pretty much back where i started but with 0.1g scales.

i can see me switching between dosing into the plastic cup and the portafilter trying to find a method that minimises disturbing grinds.

What do others do (with a doserless grinder)?


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Once I have got a timed grind for a specific bean it;s straight into the portafilter for me.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Mythos accuracy. It's awesome.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Cup, accurate all the time.

Ian


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## jkb89 (Dec 10, 2014)

I've got an MC2 and I use a little plastic cup (39p from home bargains) it's exactly the right size to fit under the spout and you can leave it there without holding it. Then tip that in to the portafilter, if I try and do it straight in to the pf I end up with coffee covering the whole house (mostly the washing machine as it's under my coffee kit...).


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm currently using a mignon. I weigh out, grind into a plastic pot (free with yoghurt), clear the grind pathway into the pot, weigh again, and then distribute into the PF. If necessary, I give the grinds a stir to break up any clumps.


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## cawfee (Oct 27, 2014)

i single dose in my mazzer mini. weighing in a basket before and after the grind. i like 17.5g in an 18g vst basket and pretty much get out what i put in ±0.05g. i grind and tamp into a pre-heated, loose basket, then snap it into the PF for action.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> Once I have got a timed grind for a specific bean it;s straight into the portafilter for me.


Full hopper of beans and straight into the portafilter or single dosing?

The timer on the MC2 is worse than useless i found, any movement of the grinder and it throws it out, slightly, but enough to ensure your dose is short/over.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Best method i found with the MC2 is putting my 200g bag of beans into the hopper and leaving, ignore the timer switch, use little tub under spout and turn on, grind till i get my required weight (By turning off and putting tub on scales already zeroed with tub) then into basket.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

StuartS said:


> i can see me switching between dosing into the plastic cup and the portafilter trying to find a method that minimises disturbing grinds.


This is probably a wrong point to start at. Grinders do not necessarily distribute well out of the throat, so post-grinding redistribution can add a lot to the flavours in your cup especially with lower end grinders. So look up "WDT espresso distribution" on Gooogle. I do realise this isn't exactly what you arer asking however, but worth knowing.

I have a doserless Mazzer SJ with aftermarket timer installed. Accuracy is around .5g, I have it set to dispense so the dosing variation always comes in over 18g, I grind into the basket with a homemade coffee catcha type funnel, pop it straight on the scales, spoon off any excess if it's greater than .2g, WDT, tamp, then pop the basket in the PF and pull the shot.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Thanks for the replies.

I think at some stage i must have given up on the timer and that's when I started single dosing. Using this method into the portafilter (with yoghurt pot funnel) isn't great cos I need to hook out the chamber and chute. It's easier doing this into a cup.

I thinks it's a trade-off between 1) single dosing into a cup, transferring to filter and stirring around - just weigh the beans, no wastage, but the grinds may not be consistent and 2) more beans in hopper, grind into portafilter, maybe stir around - need to weigh the output (more than once), some wastage but probably better grind quality.

I'll experiment to see which gives the best result in the cup.

Btw, my distribution has improved drammatically since i started using light nutation before tamping. I get virtually no spritzers using the naked portafilter.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Dylan, just read you post after writing mine.

Yes, you are right - I have tried both. Currently using the WDT method and then nutation and getting good distribution.

Perhaps the best option for me is to have beans in the hopper to improve grind consistency (as far as my mc2 will allow), dose into a cup, weigh/adjust and transfer to portafilter, WDT, nutate and tamp. If I can get the hang of dosing direct to the basket and weigh/adjust it should be quicker.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The MC2 does have the chute retention you are talking about, so dosing into a cup first may be the best option anyway.

I don't nutate, as it gives me a dead spot in the center of the shot. Both WDT and nutating are forms of distribution, you may find you only need one, but if using both is helping then obviously stick to what you're doing


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

I take the basket out of the portafilter, tare it to zero on the .1g scales and grind into the basket (we use 19g per double shot) so I tend to have the grinder set to 5.05 second grind which doses for our beans about 18.5g then I purge or pinch off until I have 19g. Then I put the basket back into the PF and tamp.

One thing to note about scales, when I tare my basket off it will say -25.4g when I take the basket off of the scales. Sometimes after I dose coffee into the basket and weigh, when I take the basket with coffee off of the scales the original -25.4g might have changed to -25.2g meaning that the 19g weight is actually 18.8g. When this happens I weigh out 19.2 to compensate for the scales changing weight.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

That really shouldn't be happening. What scales are you using?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Scotford said:


> That really shouldn't be happening. What scales are you using?


Small variances are common in the cheap ebay scales, at least in my experience.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Dylan said:


> Small variances are common in the cheap ebay scales, at least in my experience.


Yeah. I don't get why scales are so overlooked though.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Scotford said:


> Yeah. I don't get why scales are so overlooked though.


One part of the armoury that's traditionally upgrade proof... (until Acaia came on the scene)


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

AWS all the (wait for it) ... weigh


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Scotford said:


> Yeah. I don't get why scales are so overlooked though.


.2-5 g difference is not huge and its infrequent enough of a problem so as not to really be one.

When you can spend under £10 and get 95% of the solution, its a bit of an ask to spend another £100 to eliminate that very small amount of inaccuracy.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I suppose on a prosumer level, yeah. But when accuracy is harped on about so often, it strikes me as a tad odd.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I guess not everyone subscribes to the idea of total accuracy. But then you can buy a pergtamp which has a sharp edge incase that .05mm of 'untamped' grinds really matters to you.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Scotford said:


> AWS all the (wait for it) ... weigh


I'll see your WEIGH scales, and raise you time and weigh:

  IMAG1358 by wjheenan, on Flickr


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I'll see your timer/scale and raise you a gravimetric PB


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

I'll stick on a cut off yoghurt pot coffee catcher!


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

The compensation method is still accurate, you just have to be aware. I use hario v60 scales at home which doesn't present this problem.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I'll see your timer/scale and raise you a gravimetric PB

Don't know what that is but it sounds as though it came straight out of Star Trek, smashing


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Scotford said:


> I'll see your timer/scale and raise you a gravimetric PB
> 
> View attachment 11980


In the picture why two cups? Does each cup get 30g, if so does that mean 36g of coffee in basket(that's huge) always puzzled me this.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

mremanxx said:


> In the picture why two cups? Does each cup get 30g, if so does that mean 36g of coffee in basket(that's huge) always puzzled me this.


If it's two espressos then they would just get half each, a 'single' espresso is more in this range anyway, the 30g odd you extract from 18g at home is a double shot.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

A 'double' dose is what goes into the basket. What comes out is a shot. Half of that is a single. Right there, that is a split shot.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Scotford said:


> A 'double' dose is what goes into the basket. What comes out is a shot. Half of that is a single. Right there, that is a split shot.


This is what I struggle to get my head around, a normal espresso would be 9g in 30g out? but a double would be 18g in 30g out?

For people who only drink espresso and the values always quoted on here as a norm are 18g in 30g out that means they are drinking double espressos all the time? They must never bloody sleep.

And I presume that for a flat white would you normally use a double shot (18 in 30 out) or would you do a triple to keep the coffee taste?

You advice would be appreciated.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

No - think ratios. 1:1.5 is ristretto territory; 1:2.0 is normale and 1.3.0 lungo.

Following these ratios, for an 18grm dose you would be looking to get 27grms, 36grms and 54grms shot weight out.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

For a flat white - 27-30grms shot weight from an 18grm dose seems fine for a 160-180cc cup but it depends on personal taste preference and bean. I sometimes up the dose to 19-20grms when I think the bean is not cutting through the milk.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> For a flat white - 27-30grms shot weight from an 18grm dose seems fine for a 160-180cc cup but it depends on personal taste preference and bean. I sometimes up the dose to 19-20grms when I think the bean is not cutting through the milk.


Funny old thing just made a flat white, used 21g in 30g out and added about 150ml milk, tastes better than my 16g - 30g brew.

The reason I asked is not sure what shops do, when I get one it is either nice or shite and never sure if it is to do with the ratio or coffee, should ask really but I'm old and stupid


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> No - think ratios. 1:1.5 is ristretto territory; 1:2.0 is normale and 1.3.0 lungo.
> 
> Following these ratios, for an 18grm dose you would be looking to get 27grms, 36grms and 54grms shot weight out.


Still all with the average 25second shot time? adjust grind to get this or am I missing the point again?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Adjust grind yes, your shot time should always stay around 25-35 secs regardless of input


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Adjust grind yes, your shot time should always stay around 25-35 secs regardless of input


Getting there.....slowly but surely

I'll be an expert this time next millenium.


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## JoeFromWales (Jan 24, 2015)

So... If someone uses a single basket and say 9g of coffee they'd only get out 18g of espresso. That's like 3 teaspoons. What on earth does anyone do with that and what happened to 7g of coffee for 30ml (yes I know volume isn't the best measure but this is the ratio I always used to hear) for espresso. Seems like that would barely be considered stronger that a glass of water nowadays!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

mremanxx said:


> Funny old thing just made a flat white, used 21g in 30g out and added about 150ml milk, tastes better than my 16g - 30g brew.
> 
> The reason I asked is not sure what shops do, when I get one it is either nice or shite and never sure if it is to do with the ratio or coffee, should ask really but I'm old and stupid


High St chains certainly won't be weighing in and weighing out which is one factor their coffee is variable.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

JoeFromWales said:


> So... If someone uses a single basket and say 9g of coffee they'd only get out 18g of espresso. That's like 3 teaspoons. What on earth does anyone do with that and what happened to 7g of coffee for 30ml (yes I know volume isn't the best measure but this is the ratio I always used to hear) for espresso. Seems like that would barely be considered stronger that a glass of water nowadays!


'Traditional' shot was just that - one sip and gone. Most single shots these days are what used to be called doubles - i.e. extracted into two cups.


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## Beanaholic (Feb 2, 2015)

The Systemic Kid said:


> 'Traditional' shot was just that - one sip and gone.


Often in Italian cafes it seemed that the espresso was just a sugar delivery system - tiny espresso with huge lump of sugar which dissolved in the time taken to smoke one cigarette.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://sprudge.com/timeless-espresso-traditions-at-santeustachio-and-tazza-doro-in-rome.html

http://sprudge.com/milan-italian-espresso.html


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Nice links

i particularly like the custom La Spaz ad. Very, very nice. shame only US market


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

woooooooooooood, nice


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

NickdeBug said:


> Nice links
> 
> i particularly like the custom La Spaz ad. Very, very nice. shame only US market
> 
> View attachment 12053


nice looking machine, I'd redecorate the kitchen to fit with this!


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I dose the right amount of beans (plus a little extra) into my my Mignon and grind into a small plastic cup. I'll then weigh it on my scales to get the exact amount. My Mignon does have the built in timer, so you can get reasonably close to the desired amount, but the timer switch on the grinder does appear very flimsy, so I stopped using it.


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## JacksDad (Sep 8, 2014)

I take the basket out of my Gagia protafilter and grind straight into it with my Iberital MC2. I tend to know when I've got about the right amount (18g) and then weigh it on my jewellers scales (I already know the weight of the basket). If I need a little more then I tip the grinder forwards as usually theres a little bit more coffee stuck in the spout that then falls out. I put the basket back into the portafilter and then tamp.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

JacksDad said:


> I take the basket out of my Gagia protafilter and grind straight into it with my Iberital MC2. I tend to know when I've got about the right amount (18g) and then weigh it on my jewellers scales (I already know the weight of the basket). If I need a little more then I tip the grinder forwards as usually theres a little bit more coffee stuck in the spout that then falls out. I put the basket back into the portafilter and then tamp.


I'll try this method as well, but it has a big "coffee all over the kitchen counter" risk


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