# New member with New De'Longhi and some questions about filter baskets



## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

My first post!

For a long time I used a Krups Vivo F880 and not very expertly but I was able to get satisfactory results using Sainsbury's inexpensive Espresso beans ground using my trusty Porlex hand grinder. I generally make double espressos or Americanos and don't usually involve milk in my coffee although my daughter's recent interest means I now make milky coffees for her.

The Krups stopped working and has now been replaced by a De'Longhi Icona ECO310BK. I do realise that this is basically an over-priced, pretty, consumer model but I only paid £20 for it second hand and it's in almost new condition. Its arrival has sparked a renewed interest in what's what with coffee and coffee machines and some key topics have come to mind:


With the standard filter baskets I can barely fill them to what is advisedly the required weight in ground coffee. It seems 6g and 12g, respectively, are the limits when I was expecting 7-8 or 14-15 grams, respectively.

The discovery that the standard filters are pressurised probably explains why the coffee is quite different from my Krups (darker and less creamy crema and a less refined taste).


I'm therefore considering a replacement non-pressurised filter basket. I did try the old Krups double shot filter (non-pressurised of course), which fits and seems to produce good results, but it sticks to the machine limpet-like after pulling the shot









Not sure I can post links as a newbie here but I have found a De'Longhi spare part non-pressurised basket, which I believe is for the EC145 model (from espares) and wondered if this was a recommended option?

Looking forward to some much-appreciated advice!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Welcome! The deal with baskets (simplified) is that pressurised ones are designed to artificially restrict the flow and emulsify the oils to give a 'fake crema' even when using stale supermarket coffee (especially pre-ground which is always too coarse).

By using a non-pressurised basket, you get to see the real rate of flow. With preground it will be far too fast. But what it does is allows you to tweak the grind of your own coffee to bring you into the realms of a 25-35 second extraction which is accepted as being the ballpark contact time needed for a decent shot. Having your own grinder also allows you to use freshly roasted speciality coffee from a respected roaster rather than commodity coffee from a warehouse that's sat there for months. You'd be amazed at the difference in taste and out needn't be that much more expensive, seeing as you can buy a 250g bag of something good from the likes of Rave for just over £4.

Before I joined this forum I had a Delonghi but used the non-pressurised basket from an old Krups. It meant I could use better coffee, ground on an MC2 which is nothing special but better than a blade grinder. Sometimes the sticking is because you may have too much coffee in the basket. It expands when wet and could be pushing hard on the shower screen, which with a bit of heat will make the puck stick. You need a bit of headroom to allow it to brew properly. The baskets are small so you'll just have to make smaller drinks. If you can only get 12g in, you'll have to cut the pump when you hit 25g out (by weight) and make another if it's not enough.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

@hotmetal - Thanks, I should have explained that I was pretty much up to date on the pressurised v.s. non-pressurised debate, which is why I want to use a non-pressurised filter basket. I don't have my old Krups any more so I can't use the old Krups baskets anyway. I was hoping someone could help me decide if the spare part replacement De'Longhi basket (for an EC145), which is a simple unpressurised design, would be suitable for my ECO310 holder (fit and functionality).


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Oh I see - didn't twig that!


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I think all the Delonghi's use the same size basket so you should be OK.

I know the baskets have been discussed before and just did a quick search and this came up, its only a few quid and if it doesn't fit you could always sell it on ebay?

http://www.buyspares.co.uk/product.pl?pid=1742107


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

aaronb said:


> I think all the Delonghi's use the same size basket so you should be OK.
> 
> I know the baskets have been discussed before and just did a quick search and this came up, its only a few quid and if it doesn't fit you could always sell it on ebay?
> 
> http://www.buyspares.co.uk/product.pl?pid=1742107


Good point! I think I will go ahead and report back here once I have tried it


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

hotmetal said:


> Oh I see - didn't twig that!


Sorry







I ought to add that the Krups basket, even though it looked fine in the holder and I ensured it wasn't over-filled - ALWAYS stuck to the machine. I think it's just a tad narrower than the standard basket and when the holder is locked into position the Krups basket is compressed onto the bottom of the machine. I found I had to force water through it by pressing the 'pull' button to get it off







. I was getting less crema but it was lighter and finer and the coffee was definitely smoother.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

The De'Longhi EC145 non-pressurised filter basket I ordered last week arrived this morning and I have tried my first cup with it and I'm very encouraged! First of all, it fits fine in the standard holder without any modification required. It also doesn't end up sticking to the machine like the Krups basket. It also takes more coffee; the standard pressurised filter really tops out at 12g and the replacement one is closer to 14g. I have only tried one cup so far and while there is less crema, it's lighter in colour and not foamy like with the pressurised filter. I am using inexpensive Sainsburys espresso beans (I also use Aldi beans) and normally I have to sweeten the coffee but there was no need this time, so my conclusion is that I am already getting a smoother and sweeter cup with the EC145 filter. I only used the built in tamper and this really isn't adequate so I will invest in a proper one and I will experiment with the coffee grind fineness adjustment on my Porlex grinder with the aim of improving the crema. If anyone is interested I will let you know how I get on.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

The crema will improve if you buy fresh beans


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

What size tamper does it take, might be a struggle if its a funky size?


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

h1udd said:


> The crema will improve if you buy fresh beans


I have no reason to believe the beans are not fresh.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

froggystyle said:


> What size tamper does it take, might be a struggle if its a funky size?


51mm (2 inches) - I have seen quite a few for sale.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Fresh means different to most of us, we like beans to be roasted and delivered to us within a week, we then use them within 6-8 weeks.

Supermarket beans are roasted quite some time before you get them.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

froggystyle said:


> Fresh means different to most of us, we like beans to be roasted and delivered to us within a week, we then use them within 6-8 weeks.
> 
> Supermarket beans are roasted quite some time before you get them.


Fair enough. I don't want to get too caught up in perfectionists' criteria because I am on a budget. But I am doing the best I can within that budget. I buy one 200 or 227g bag of beans at a time, and they last one week.

I was getting more crema with my old Krups with the same beans because I had refined my grinding and tamping strategy. The beans are the same and I'm confident that after I have got used to the new setup I will be getting results at least as good as I was getting before.

Please don't get me wrong - I can appreciate and very much enjoy an exceptional espresso made at a top-flight establishment, but for daily home consumption I am very satisfied with what I can achieve with supermarket beans.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

If you are happy with supermarket beans, then there is nothing wrong with that.

However, i ask you to try a bag of fresh beans from a decent roaster and see how you get on, although your grinder/machine limits you, i would hope you could a lot better than the supermarket beans.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Drink less - buy better


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

froggystyle said:


> If you are happy with supermarket beans, then there is nothing wrong with that.
> 
> However, i ask you to try a bag of fresh beans from a decent roaster and see how you get on, although your grinder/machine limits you, i would hope you could a lot better than the supermarket beans.


I may well do that. Indeed, there is a local roaster just a short walk from my location (http://www.smithscoffee.co.uk) and they have a sales counter. That said their prices are about 4-5x that of what I am paying







My original motivation was to kick the instant habit. I became so fussy about instant that in the end the only instant I could say was acceptable was Nescafé Alta Rica and even then some batches were not as good as others. The final straw was when a jar exceeded £4 and I worked out that if I used the Krups (which I already had for several years but rarely used) I could a) enjoy consistently better coffee, b) reduce my coffee consumption from 4 or maybe 5 cups a day to 2 or occasionally 3 and c) not pay any more than buying expensive instant. I started off buying pre-ground but on a trip to Japan a friend there bought me a locally made Porlex ceramic burr hand grinder and so I now grind my own beans.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Drink less - buy better


Indeed - I was drinking 4-5 instant coffees a day and now it's 2 or maybe 3 espressos a day (doubles and Americanos made from doubles).


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

This is only tangentially related, but have you guys ever had freshly squeezed olive oil? In Morocco they sell it in glass Pepsi bottles and it tastes amazing, completely different to even the fanciest stuff you can buy at Waitrose. All the oil they sell at the grocery store is stale and tastes like crap, only a tiny minority know this, everyone else thinks that's the way it's supposed to taste.

Even though I know this and have tasted the difference myself , I just don't care enough to go to the extreme lengths required to get non stale olive oil. I'm sure there are some gourmet purists who care very much about this, but I couldn't care less.

I will take the effort to get fresh beans and it does make a difference.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Try these..... cheaper than the one you linked.

http://ravecoffee.co.uk/


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

jimbocz said:


> This is only tangentially related, but have you guys ever had freshly squeezed olive oil?


yes, I went on an olive oil tasting in St Remy last year .. they pour you shots into little shot glasses, and you immediately think, "I dont want to drink half a litre of olive oil today", but fresh olive oil is actually drinkable.

I would say that supermarket beans compared to fresh roasted is the same gap as supermarket olive oil to fresh


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

Quick update - doing the refinement in stages and although I don't have a suitable size-matched tamper at the moment, improvising with the base of my Porlex grinder and tidying up with the built in tamper I have successfully improved the crema significantly - much more and retaining its creaminess without a hint of coarse froth I get with the standard pressurised filter basket. I have a stainless steel tamper on order, should arrive on Wednesday. Probably unnecessary but I will next make the grind a bit finer.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

froggystyle said:


> Try these..... cheaper than the one you linked.
> 
> http://ravecoffee.co.uk/


I was a bit unfair on Smiths, I see that do have some more affordable options although still about double what I pay for at the supermarket and Rave does look a little cheaper (though I can just walk to Smiths so no P&P).


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

I'm worried that you are focusing too much on crema as if that's the most important thing. In the land of De Longhi, crema is just some made up BS to talk about so they can avoid the elephant in the room, which is that the coffee tastes like crap.

Also IMHO, a tamper won't make a bit of difference if you're coffee is stale. What if somebody wrote into a bread forum and said "I usually buy the bread that's been sitting around for a while and I'm fine with that. However, I would like to buy a better knife to cut it with....

No disrespect intended, I'm far from an expert, and everyone's tastes vary, but you seem to be focusing on the wrong things.

Ignore the crema, does your coffee taste like the coffee you buy at a decent independent coffee shop? Not a chain, a proper coffee shop.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How Don't focus on crema - bad coffee can still give great crema . Crema in itself tastes bad .


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

jimbocz said:


> I'm worried that you are focusing too much on crema as if that's the most important thing. In the land of De Longhi, crema is just some made up BS to talk about so they can avoid the elephant in the room, which is that the coffee tastes like crap.
> 
> Also IMHO, a tamper won't make a bit of difference if you're coffee is stale. What if somebody wrote into a bread forum and said "I usually buy the bread that's been sitting around for a while and I'm fine with that. However, I would like to buy a better knife to cut it with....
> 
> ...


You need to read the previous posts. First of all I have indicated for various reasons that I don't like the results from the pressurised filter that is standard on my De'Longhi model so I have invested in a non-pressurised one. I am happy with the beans I am used to (for several years). They are not stale at all. They may not be up to your standard, but I have already explained that I am budget limited. My initial goal is to achieve what I was getting from my old Krups machine which I was very happy with and I should be able to take my coffee making and appreciation a step forward thanks to the research I have recently done. Even with out a proper tamper I have significantly improved the results from the stock machine. Of course tamping is important as the combination of ideal grind and tamping pressure/action has a direct effect on the quality and nature of the resulting drink. The crema is one of several indications - I pointed out that my first try with the un-pressurised filter was low on crema, but what crema there was came out smooth and not foamy as it had been before - much more like my old Krups, so progress. It was also a bit weak - the two (crema and strength) I feel go hand in hand. Nevertheless I enjoyed that cup more than the best I could get with the same beans with the standard filter. Having achieved more crema second time around I also had a stronger coffee, but it was still smooth. I do tend to over-extract. I do have mini 0.1g scales so I will be experimenting with that to refine the 'pull'.

I am experienced at making bread too and your analogy is wrong. The coffee is the flour and the yeast, not the bread. There is expensive flour and there is not so expensive flour. Not so expensive flour does not mean it is necessarily bad flour. I have tried several different sources of affordable beans and the beans I get from Sainsbury's (their own brand espresso beans) and Aldi's equivalent are good enough for me and better than others I have tried. I actually prefer teh darker roast of the Sainsbury's beans but the Aldi beans are fine if I can't get the Sainsburys ones.

Please don't get fixated on connoisseur coffee for my sake. Unless it's in the regiion of £2.50 max for 200g at best I will only be buying it for an occasional treat. I also said, life is relative and I am quite happy to rejoice in the fact that I am getting the most out of what I am budgeting for and achieving so much more than when I was depending on the most expensive instant coffee and for much the same weekly cost.

To answer your last question. thanks to my job I do get to travel ariound the world and get treated to some fantastic hospitality that I could only rarely justify the cost of for myself. So yes, I do get to taste amazing food and drink, including great coffee. I would say that what I can make at home is better than many coffees I taste on my travels but of course I experience exceptional ones too - to be honest not all of these are espressos. So do I know what a very good coffee is like, yes I do. But as you say, tastes are very individual and some of us are more tolerant than others.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

Of course I read your previous posts, and was just offering my suggestions on how you could achieve what you wanted.

Good luck!


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## tubesy (Dec 15, 2014)

In terms of budget I'd second the suggestion to try Rave - at under £12 delivered for a kilo their "Italian Job" blend (http://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee-bean-blends/products/the-italian-job-blend) works out cheaper than most supermarket beans.

While it's possible to get reasonable results from the supermarket (I quite liked the co-op own brand beans) you just can't tell how long the bag has been sat on the shelf, which adds a big complication factor to your shot.


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

My new tamper should be delivered today but improvising without it, the non-pressurised EC145 filter basket plus a slightly less fine grind has delivered the best result yet for me. I suppose you would categorise it as a 'lungo' - 14g coffee and a 40g drink, I found no need to sweeten it, no bitterness at all and the crema was creamy smooth and what I feel was the ideal shade. I know there have been some comments regarding by focus on crema but I simply feel that the crema goes hand in hand with the overall quality of the result. A poor crema is likely to indicate a poor drink and vice/versa. Anyway, I could never get anything close to this with the standard pressurised basket (the larger of which is limited to 12g as well), which produced an over-dark foamy crema and a drink with bitterness that required sweetening, so I am mighty pleased with the EC145 filter basket. The tamper should be the icing in the cake enabling me to get more consistent results (I'm using the bottom of my hand grinder, which is too small and not flat, at the moment!).

It also struck me that those of you encouraging me to invest in better beans as a priority, if I wasn't getting decent results with my 'economy' coffee in the first place then those 'better' beans would simply have been wasted.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Cant argue with that if you are enjoying it then thats all that matters...


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## Ian_B (Jan 14, 2016)

My tamper has arrived and I am now getting consistent results at last. I am pulling around 40g of beverage from 14g of coffee and after winding back the grind a notch I feel I have found the ideal setup. Previously I did sweeten my espressos and now I don't need to having eliminated all traces of bitterness. It looks great and tastes great. Now, when I feel I should treat myself, I can explore some different beans.

I only paid £20 for my second hand De'Longhi - it was almost like new and even discounted they are £130 new. I also got £16 for my old Krups on eBay (the buyer is using mine for spares). I paid £5 for the replacement non-pressurised filter basket and I now have a prettier coffee machine in my kitchen, producing better coffee than before, it's been an adventure, all for £9 - I am very very happy!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Sounds like a good result.


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## Markat26 (Jan 4, 2016)

I have followed this thread and got the same basket for my icona. Much improved the results so now I just need to work on the best settings. I do about 4-5 short pumps then reheats into the cup with hot water and nothing else once it has first warmed up to get a nice even temp and as the ready light has packed in I have to listen for the machine getting to temp and switching off. Then I wait 15 seconds to allow it to stabilise.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Ever thought of roasting your own beans?


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## Markat26 (Jan 4, 2016)

I think that's a bit too involved for me at the moment Rob.


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