# Lelit Elizabeth vs Profitec Pro 300



## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

I've decided I'd like a dual boiler machine but don't want to spend too much. So I really like the look of the Profitec Pro 300, well I'm not sold on its brew switch, but... However it seems lots prefer the Lelit Elizabeth. We don't drink that much coffee and like flat white's over espressos. But maybe that's owing to what we've been able to brew on the old Classic with pre-ground?

I've watched some youtube vids showing the operation of both machines and I prefer the simplicity of the Profitec. The Elizabeth looks overly complicated.

So is the Elizabeth too complicated or the Pro 300 too simple, or is one just right as baby bear would say? Would I regret buying the 300?


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## JahLaza (Mar 18, 2021)

Hi,

I had a similar choice to make about 3 months ago. First espresso machine actually. I wanted to buy something that would be reliable, for the important things like temperature stability, pressure stability, ease of use and cleaning ease, but also maintenance and ability to manipulate the variables if necessary. And of course must look ok in the kitchen! I Spent a lot of time researching and without going into too much detail I have to say I love the lelit Elizabeth. I have it about 2 months now. It's certainly not complicated, doesn't matter your level of expertise. It does exactly what you programme it to do, it's easy to maintain and clean. Repeatability is excellent with it and I'm glad I bought it. You will see on this forum I had some teething issues when I received it but they were relatively easy to resolve, big thank you to @MediumRoastSteam @DavecUK for helping me there. There have been others since then who have received less than perfect units of it too but I guess if you choose a reputable reseller that shouldn't be a problem. I can't help to compare it with another machine such as the profitec pro 300 but there are some here who have had both! Enjoy the initial leg of the journey ☀


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## JahLaza (Mar 18, 2021)

Have you read dave's review of it? That strongly helped my decision to purchase!

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/05/08/lelit-elizabeth/amp/


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## heytchap (May 29, 2021)

Pro 300.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

heytchap said:


> Pro 300.


 Why? Genuine question. I've been through this process, and decided on the Elizabeth. Would love to hear your thoughts. 🙂


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

heytchap said:


> Pro 300.


 Well help me out here, why?!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

The Elizabeth and the Pro-300 are rather similar machines. Similar size of boilers, and both sport a ring group. What I don't like about the Pro-300:

- Same old machine since it came to market back in 2015. Feels and looks dated.
- PID controller to control the brew boiler and a P-stat to control the steam boiler... Errr. Why?
- Some people complain the Pro-300 is a slow steamer;
- Bulky/Clunky;
- Plain simple, no features what so ever (no steam or bloom pre-infusion, no high steam pressure (Elizabeth goes to 2bar pressure and even further, inline with other machines, such as Pro-600 and Pro-700 and ECM Synchronika).

So I think the bottom line is: Want some trial, tested, solid, no-frills? Go Pro-300.

Don't be under the illusion that the Elizabeth has tech and the Pro-300 doesn't. That's not strickly true, as both machines have a "brain box" where the PID and other controllers are hosted. The only difference is that the Elizabeth sports a display which can do quite a lot more than the PID display on the Profitec. Both can fail.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> - PID controller to control the brew boiler and a P-stat to control the steam boiler... Errr. Why?
> - Some people complain the Pro-300 is a slow steamer;
> - Bulky/Clunky;
> - Plain simple, no features what so ever (no steam or bloom pre-infusion, no high steam pressure (Elizabeth goes to 2bar pressure and even further, inline with other machines, such as Pro-600 and Pro-700 and ECM Synchronika).


 I don't understand the relevance of your first point (I mean I don't know what you mean).

I was wondering how important pre-infusion was, is it a new 'thing'?

I've seen a vid showing the Pro 300 at 2bar steam, again I didn't understand the relevance.






Thanks.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

smallblueplanet said:


> I don't understand the relevance of your first point (I mean I don't know what you mean).
> 
> I was wondering how important pre-infusion was, is it a new 'thing'?
> 
> ...


 First point: The machine already has a PID controller for the brew boiler. Why not have a connection into the steam boiler? Other machines have it - in fact, most dual boiler machines are built like so!. This means you can adjust the steam temperature - as well as the brew temp - as you please via the PID input/display at the front. Also, pressure stats (p-stats) click and clack every couple of minutes. a temp probe controlled by a PID controller is silent.

Pre-infusion: Is a feature. It helps with the extraction of lighter roasts mainly. I don't know whether the pump on the profiltec slowly ramps up or what, as the machine has no pressure gauge. Pressure gauges are one of those things that you look at it once and forget, but if the machine doesn't have it, you'll need to buy or make your own porta filter mounted pressure gauge to adjust the expansion valve - otherwise you'll be flying blind.

Steam pressure at 2bar: Yes. But look at the gauge: It's way past the green zone, meaning that the machine has not been designed for that. On newer versions of the Pro-600 and P-700, they have actually re-designed the pipes, changed the safety valve and certified the machine capable of running at higher pressure. It's obviously* not *the case for the P-300.

Hope that helps, and happy to answer any questions.

I don't think you'd go wrong with either machine. Buy the one you feel more comfortable with in terms of brand and capabilities.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Steam pressure at 2bar: Yes. But look at the gauge: It's way past the green zone, meaning that the machine has not been designed for that.


 Meh, a bit of pimping then!  But why do you need steam at 2 bar?

The bit about not knowing boiler pressure (on machine arrival) concerned me.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

smallblueplanet said:


> Meh, a bit of pimping then!  But why do you need steam at 2 bar?
> 
> The bit about not knowing boiler pressure (on machine arrival) concerned me.


 The more powerful, dryer and hotter the steam, the better the quality of the microfoam it will generate as a rule of thumb. In very simple terms. One of the things I really rate about the Elizabeth - given it has a very small steam boiler (like the Pro-300) the steam quality is great!

With regards to the pressure... That's not a new thing right? Many machines simply don't have a manometer, specially entry level ones. You can, very cheaply, buy a pressure gauge and attach to the portafilter. I even have a spare one (Used with my Gaggia Classic back in the day) you can borrow for a while. I live in Bonkers Berks (West Berks) and you live in Weird Wilts. I bet we are not miles away from each other!


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> With regards to the pressure... That's not a new thing right? *Many machines simply don't have a manometer, specially entry level ones.* You can, very cheaply, buy a pressure gauge and attach to the portafilter. I even have a spare one (Used with my Gaggia Classic back in the day) you can borrow for a while. I live in Bonkers Berks (West Berks) and you live in Weird Wilts. I bet we are not miles away from each other!


 Yeah I don't mind the GC being like that - although I had a go years ago at adjusting the pressure at the same time I fitted the Silvia wand - but a machine costing £1250 should be demonstrably right. Maybe they should send them out with a pressure gauge! Thanks for the offer, I'll keep it in mind  We live in the particularly weird bit between Avebury and Stonehenge!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

smallblueplanet said:


> but a machine costing £1250 should be demonstrably right.


 I'll quote myself to answer that question:



MediumRoastSteam said:


> Same old machine since it came to market back in 2015. Feels and looks dated.


 I think now you get why I wouldn't buy the Pro-300 in today's market.

Would be interesting to hear @heytchap's thoughts. He said he would go for the Pro-300 but didn't explain why.


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## JohanR (May 8, 2021)

Thought I would chime in as a Profitec Pro 300 owner since 6 months. With this being my first machine I do not have so much to compare to but I wanted to share some of my experience with it so far.

One of the aspects often brought up with the pro 300 is the steaming capacity. I almost exclusively make flat whites or cappucinos and I have not had any problems with making back to back drinks. My pressure stat is set at 1.5 bar and I typically steam the milk at the same time as I make the espresso. I did a small test and heated 100 grams of water from 12 to 62 degrees in 20 seconds, with the final weight being 110 grams.

When it comes to the brew pressure I have not yet measured it on my machine. I typically use 14 grams in for 30 grams out in about 30 seconds total time. The first drops then come after about 10 seconds. Based on the noice from the pump I would think that it takes about 5 seconds to build up the full pressure.

I should also mention that I am very happy with the fast heat up time. In the morning it takes a bit longer (maybe 15 minutes) but after a 2-hour break it is really quick to heat up again. Another good point is the water tank, which is easy to remove and the outlet in the bottom is convenient although it reduces the effective volume somewhat. Overall the machine is very solid and gives the impression to be built to last.

Please let me know if you have any questions.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@JohanR - Excellent post, just what the OP needed. Thank you!. Now he has to make a very tough choice


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @JohanR - Excellent post, just what the OP needed. Thank you!. Now he has to make a very tough choice


 Or I might just go off-piste and look at the Profitec Pro 600!


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## JohanR (May 8, 2021)

@smallblueplanet in case you did not go off into E61-land😉 (plenty of options there) I have now measured the brew pressure on my pro 300 with a gauge attached to the portafilter. In short it flunked the test (at least according to James Hoffmann) having 10 bar at the OPV. So now I will try to figure out how to lower it a bit. I attach a video where you can see the pressure build up. Note that it takes a bit longer than normal since the pump has to fill the whole portafilter and in addition the portafilter locks in at 4 o'clock since there is no basket in it. (Took me a while to realize that it is very difficult to avoid leaks between the basket and the portafilter&#8230

/monthly_2021_06/IMG_1101.MP4.938bcfe06382a8677b916301a6eda44f.MP4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment IMG_1101.MP4


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

JohanR said:


> So now I will try to figure out how to lower it a bit.







Thanks.

Not sure where to go with the machine, still favouring the Pro 300.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

> 2 minutes ago, smallblueplanet said:


 That's the steam pressure, not the brew pressure!


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's the steam pressure, not the brew pressure!


 Doh, sorry. I just googled as I thought I'd seen a youtube video! I'm doing two things at once, neither of them too well!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@smallblueplanet @JohanR - the brew pressure is adjusted by turning the Expansion Valve adjustment screw, pointed by the yellow arrow. The red arrow is the pressure stat.

I think clockwise decreases the pressure.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Also note that, exactly like the Elizabeth, the brew boiler is copper, and the steam boiler is stainless steel.

BB sells the Pro-300 dispersion plate. I wonder if it would fit the Elizabeth, as it has a different design. I bet it would!


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @smallblueplanet @JohanR - the brew pressure is adjusted by turning the Expansion Valve adjustment screw, pointed by the yellow arrow. The red arrow is the pressure stat.
> 
> I think clockwise decreases the pressure.


 Thanks. The Clive Coffee guys talks about the ideal pressure being set by them when you buy your machine. My memory isn't what it was!

At about 3:15 he shows the portafilter with gauge that they use.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

There's loads of Profitec Pro 300 info in this link (inc Pro 300 manual):

https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/360000356294-Profitec-Pro-300


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## JohanR (May 8, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @smallblueplanet @JohanR - the brew pressure is adjusted by turning the Expansion Valve adjustment screw, pointed by the yellow arrow. The red arrow is the pressure stat.
> 
> I think clockwise decreases the pressure.
> 
> View attachment 58267


 Thanks again @MediumRoastSteam. It turned out that clockwise increased the OPV pressure 😉. In any case I have now lowered it to 9 bar. So far I have not noticed any difference, which I guess means that my puck prepping does not give a resistance larger than 9 bar. But the upside should be that the risk of channeling is decreased. I guess the only way to know the brew pressure is to have a gauge in the grouphead.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@JohanR - now you know, let your taste guide you. Remember there's no right or wrong. If 6bar works, happy days! I once tried, didn't do it for me! 👍


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