# Fracino Classic Hot Water Problem



## deanfarnaby

First post on here so a big hello to everybody!

I have recently purchased a Fracino Classic commercial machine (2nd hand) for a cafe my mother in law runs.

I rigged it all up over the weekend but I am having a problem , the machine will not produce hot water from the wand.

The steam wand , and the group (I believe it is called the group, The coffee "brewer" in the middle) both work fine.

If I turn the manual valve for hot water - nothing happens!.

The steam gets upto pressure/temprature rather quickly but the hot water side does not move past 3 (The green zone is at 12) I presume this is just heat from the steam radiating to the water?

I presume this machine is a double boiler, although I'm not sure.

Does anybody have any ideas on what the problem may be?

Here is some more background info.

Machine was barely used - then went into "dry storage" for 5 years.

I then collected machine - plumbed the water in , plugged her in and fired her up.

I have a few suggestions but I know little to nothing about these machines so I would rather seek advice first.

1. Issue with Thermostat - needs replacing / resetting

2. Boiler broken (I hope not)

3. Blockage somewhere (solenoid?) This machine has been sat for years!

4. I have missed something , I.E manual pump , some first time run step that I missed out.

I have searched the forum for simliar issues but I can't find anyone with the same issue with the same machine. I was going to contact Fracino first but they are now on a £1.50 a min 090 number!

I really hope we can get this going as I've just forked out quite a chunk for it on a cash transaction (I know that was pretty dumb) We really need the hot water wand as a lot of customers order Tea (We are up North!) and the kettle just isn't quick enough.

Machine in question is almost identical to this (Just looks a little newer)










Many Thanks

Dean


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## funinacup

The hot water nozzle could be blocked with scale. Do you know the history of the machine / what area it came from?

The lower set of numbers on the gauge (0-3ish) is the boiler/steam pressure. This should sit around 1bar when up to temp. The other set of higher numbers (0-14ish) should sit at mains water pressure (usually between 2 and 4bar) when pump is not activated / groups are not running) and around 9bar when pump is activated / groups running water / espresso.

Hope this helps a bit!

Michael

Fun in a Cup Coffee Training


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## 4085

Fraction are bound to have the name if a local agent who can service the machine as it will probAbly need new seals etc. It sounds likes blockage somewhere. Have you descaled if?


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## deanfarnaby

Thanks for the help guys . The machine is from the Wakefield area . Here is the description from the seller .



> *Outstanding Quality Espresso Machine - Commercial Model*
> 
> This machine is in pristine condition as it has been in dry storage for some 5 years
> 
> It was used very sparingly before that in a specialist coffee shop.
> 
> Needs to be plumbed to mains water supply
> 
> I perfect working order, ideal for small coffee shop/cafe
> 
> (see my other items for grinding machine & coffee cups etc.)
> 
> Collection only due to weight, I will deliver within 20 mile radius for Wakefield for £15
> 
> Any questions please send me a message.
> 
> Payment by paypal or cash on collection/delivery



The machine came with a filter unit so I presume it was ran with it previously. I have not rigged it up as the plastic threads on the stepdown piece into the filter are shot so it leaks.

I haven't as yet descaled the machine. I know I need to but I am not sure how . Do I just place descaler into the basket and run the group ?

Also how do I back flush this machine correctly ?

The gauge behavior you have explained sounds about right I presume it will increase when the hot water runs.

I spoke to fracino and I have the number of a guy I can use for a service if I need new seals. I would like to try and clean this up myself first though !

With regards to the scale build up in the hot water tap. Can I just dismantle this as long as the machine is cold ? Is there any pressure behind it? How much of this machine can I take apart without getting a face full of steam or water ?

Thanks again


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## funinacup

If the machine is cold then you wont get any steam or hot water shooting out.

Unscrew the tip of the hot water wand and see if its caked in white scale. Clean + replace. If still not working then chances are it's blocked further back at the hot water valve.

To descale you need to fill the boiler with descaler and leave to soak then clean thoroughly. Which area are you in?


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## 4085

I honestly think you ought to speak with the Fracino service chap as after 5 years it will benefit from z service. Don't forget, it is a workhorse and once running properly will be paying for its keep.


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## deanfarnaby

I am in Teesside , Redcar to be precise , well the machine is

I will pick up some descaler and run it through. If I can't find the exact procedure for this I might be back









How do I remove the valve ? As long as I don't go too deep will I be relatively safe to just take a set of spanners to it and have a look ?

I will stress the importance of the service guy to the inlaw


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## Glenn

Hi Dean

First step would be to get someone familiar with coffee machines to take a look at this.

From your posts I get the impression that your new to coffee machines (but keen to learn!)

Best chat to a local barista and see if they can assist. They are likely to spot any issues that could cause injury to yourself or damage to the machine.

I'm sure for not a lot of money you will be able to get the machine serviced and any worn parts replaced.

Parts are plentiful too.


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## espressotechno

Wakefield is in Yorkshire, so the water will have been soft: Inspecting the unscrewed hot water nozzle will indicate any scale buildup.

I suspect that the hot water valve is blocked / stuck shut; but unless you know what you're doing, you'll just make things worse trying to dismantle the valve ! (and you'll need the correct spec. replacement seals, etc). A new valve would be more cost-effective.

When the pump is running, eg when making a coffee, the pressure gauge should read 9 bar(ish).

Strongly suggest you find a local coffee engineer (ask local coffeeshops for recommendations) to get the machine repaired & serviced.


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## deanfarnaby

espressotechno said:


> Wakefield is in Yorkshire, so the water will have been soft: Inspecting the unscrewed hot water nozzle will indicate any scale buildup.
> 
> I suspect that the hot water valve is blocked / stuck shut; but unless you know what you're doing, you'll just make things worse trying to dismantle the valve ! (and you'll need the correct spec. replacement seals, etc). A new valve would be more cost-effective.
> 
> When the pump is running, eg when making a coffee, the pressure gauge should read 9 bar(ish).
> 
> Strongly suggest you find a local coffee engineer (ask local coffeeshops for recommendations) to get the machine repaired & serviced.


I have found a local service man on google who I am going to get in touch with today re: a service / new valve replacement seals etc.

I will take the tap part off and clean it up but I will stop when I reach the valve.

There's a few things I spotted that caught my eye inside the machine so I will take some photos and post them up.

Once again many thanks for the help guys. I'll keep reporting back to let you know how I get on.

P.S - I am in Teesside - I believe the water here is relativly soft - Will it cause me a problem if I don't use this filter unit that came with the machine? I need a new adaptor for it as the threads are shot on the current one. Untill I can find one I was just planning on running it without the filter (Not the same as below but very similar) .


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## espressotechno

The inside of your electric kettle will tell you if you'll have a scale problem.

If scale is likely, choose an ion-resin cartridge system, with quick-change carts.

NB Do NOT go for polyphosphate or salt-regenerating systems - yuk, yuk.

If no scale, then choose a carbon block cartridge system " " " " , which will guarantee quality of water supply.

Your coffee engineer should be able to recommend the right system for you.


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## deanfarnaby

Hi guys , managed to fix it today









I disconnected the line coming from the boiler into the hot water valve. I noticed there was no movement inside the valve when turning it to open/closed where as inside the steam valve I could see the inside rotate and move down slightly . So I applied a small amount of pressure with a screwdriver (through the small hole where the pipe was connected) and it popped open really easily.

So it turned out the mechanism inside the valve was stuck. Once I put it all together again it worked excellently

Many thanks again for all the sound advice

Dean


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## espressotechno

Could be scale inside the valve body causing it to stick......


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## deanfarnaby

espressotechno said:


> Could be scale inside the valve body causing it to stick......


Its been sat closed for 5 years so I think it just jammed.

I got a pipe cleaner right up the hot water wand and as far into the back of the valve as I could and it come out pretty clean, hopefully its all good


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## Maforka

I'm having problems with the same machine every time we try to make coffee the machine will make the 'coffee sound' but nothing will come out and then the light to whichever button I pressed will flash


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