# Espresso machine advice for new member



## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Hi all, would welcome some advice. I range from espresso, americano to cappuccinos. A pod machine is not an option as I can't have lactose. I have experimented with an aeropress and want to branch out . Budget is between 100 - 350. I have researched into a rancilio Silvia, sage duo temp , Krups xp5620, deLonghi motivo (cheaper). All have come out with mixed reviews. Don't think I'm ever gonna be one for buying extra parts and add-ins but I do have an addictive personality hence why I've researched quite abit . Little things like a hot temp, large clearance ( for an americano ) and good frothing for a cappuccino are quite important, as is a lovely espresso with a good crema (aware I can't have it all). Any advice would be appreciated. A cheaper model with a grinder is also an option if I do get into it abit more !


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

My advice is to run away, very very fast. Before you know it these amazing guys will have set you up with the perfect system... And then you'll be totally hooked! I've literally just picked up my Gaggia classic, as recommended by these guys, and I have to say the difference between it and a cheaper household type AEG machine is just incredible....


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Ha . Sound advice! They sound like coffee wizards !


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## Toby-IOM (Aug 8, 2012)

1 piece of advice I can give is give your choice in Grinder some serious consideration. it will be every bit as important, if not more, than your espresso machine. Enjoy your journey.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Some of the wizards on here are close to being homeless because of their expenditure ! - however the proven route is Gaggia Classic and an Iberital MC2 grinder as a starting point - which is where I'm at after three months. PS don't mention the K---s or D------I names on here - shhhhh

~


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Some of the wizards on here are close to being homeless because of their expenditure ! - however the proven route is Gaggia Classic and an Iberital MC2 grinder as a starting point - which is where I'm at after three months. PS don't mention the K---s or D------I names on here - shhhhh
> 
> ~


Lovely . It's like the starting point to a maze . Have to pass level 1 with a Gaggia classic and then might pass the next level to upgrade ? Sounds good . Don't think I will get to the homeless phase . Only mentioned the other brands as they get good reviews on other sites and on which review site , thanks


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

CaptainCoffee said:


> Lovely . It's like the starting point to a maze . Have to pass level 1 with a Gaggia classic and then might pass the next level to upgrade ? Sounds good . Don't think I will get to the homeless phase . Only mentioned the other brands as they get good reviews on other sites and on which review site , thanks


Ive had both K---s and D------I and there were miles away from the Classic - the problem with which is the testers are not coffee wizards who worship at the temple of Glen the all-powerful all seeing coffee moderator. The classic will have a residual value after 10 years and still be working, the others will be in landfill.


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Just looking at the Gaggia Classic . Can you fit a cappuccino cup under there ? Is there enough clearance or will it only fit for espressos ?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Yes you can- you can even get a full size mug under it if you use a bottomless portafilter ( a great training tool for getting your tamp and grind correct. Remember you will need at least an Ibertial MC2 grinder as the very minimum for a grinder


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Yes you can- you can even get a full size mug under it if you use a bottomless portafilter ( a great training tool for getting your tamp and grind correct. Remember you will need at least an Ibertial MC2 grinder as the very minimum for a grinder


Thanks . It seems that the new Gaggia classic 2015 isn't highly rated at all . So do I try and buy an older model ? I would quite like a new machine but the reviews are poor. All to do with a solenoid valve ? Is that the only difference and how crucial is that ?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I have the 2015 classic myself - it has a better and bigger boiler than the old model made from stainless steel rather than aluminium. Jumbo ratty Has both old and new and confirms that both work just as well but with more steam from the 2015 I think.

The other thing people say is that the 2015 model doesn't have an OPV overpressure valve which many people tweak to get the pump pressure down from 15 bar to 9 Bar - however there is growing evidence that the 2015 model is at 9 Bar from the factory, so doesn't need tweaking - still researching that. The OPV is a part that often gives problems on the old machine which is why I think they did away with it, Both machines will have there foibles but both will make great expresso with some practice and diligence and help from the forum. I'm not championing the 2015 its just what ive got and I'm happy with it so far.

If I was starting out again I would be tempted to get either model second hand from the forum sales and wants - will probably cost £80 - £120 these machines are where people start the journey, some move on to more expensive machines some still have the same classic after 15yrs.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I've just bought a second hand one, It's a proper workhorse of a basic machine, if you can afford the stretch to a new one, it might be worth considering a better machine second hand.... It would cost the same and you'd avoid upgrading later.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Finding a good grinder to pair with your first machine is just as much of a headache as for the coffee machine itself but easily of equal importance. Commercial types are usually quite big but very solidly built so a secondhand one might be worth a look. Usually a good clean and some new burrs will get you going but most folks here if they have one of these also add some very simple mods to make life easier for producing just a coffee or two at a time. Think 64mm and upwards then, if you do find something, the guys here will usually be able to advise on the merits or otherwise of your selection.

If you can wait then after a few posts you will have access to the for sale section. There the items tend to be ready for work and of known quality.


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

There is no benefit in buying a new gaggia classic, and your budget will be shot on it.

You can get a classic on here for >£150 and you could get a Mazzer SuperJolly or equivilent for the same if you buy used.

You will end up having to buy a tamper, milk jugs and cleaning products so DONT BUY NEW.


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

TomBurtonArt said:


> There is no benefit in buying a new gaggia classic, and your budget will be shot on it.
> 
> You can get a classic on here for >£150 and you could get a Mazzer SuperJolly or equivilent for the same if you buy used.
> 
> You will end up having to buy a tamper, milk jugs and cleaning products so DONT BUY NEW.


thanks . Quick question . How come used Gaggias are cheaper when by all accounts they retain value and are better than a 2015 model ? Are people on here then willing to sell with all the above accessories as they want upgrades as this is the starter espresso machine for newbies like me ? Seen a chrome finished one from House of Fraser which I liked until I saw your post . So second hand , with accessories and then spend the rest of the budget on a good second hand grinder ?


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Thank you everyone else for your help and advice so far . At some point I will bite the bullet !!! I can't buy from here until I have started 5 posts ? That correct ?


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

CaptainCoffee said:


> thanks . Quick question . How come used Gaggias are cheaper when by all accounts they retain value and are better than a 2015 model ? Are people on here then willing to sell with all the above accessories as they want upgrades as this is the starter espresso machine for newbies like me ? Seen a chrome finished one from House of Fraser which I liked until I saw your post . So second hand , with accessories and then spend the rest of the budget on a good second hand grinder ?


Second hand, from a reputable seller such as @gaggiamanualservice who fully refurbishes and fits the recommended mods for £150 usually.

The old classics are better, but are more numerous in the market and are by definition older so have lost value. You won't lose money on a 6-10 year old classic though, as long as it's looked after.

Your grinder is the most important piece of coffee equipment you will buy not your machine. You should get the best grinder you can within your budget.

Accessories you might have to buy additionally, you could get a Torr/made by knock tamper, VST 18g basket, milk jug, 0.1g scales and cleaning products for around £60.


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## Toby-IOM (Aug 8, 2012)

In truth Cap, Theres a (high) chance that upgraditis will grab you sooner or later.. To buy new may be nice but you will lose when you come to move it on to the next budding barista. At least if you buy (wisely) second-hand, it will leave you with enough tokens to buy yourself a decent grinder.

As has been said before, your grinder is every bit as important, if not more important than you machine itself


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Just out of curiosity Captain, where do you live?

Finding equipment locally resolves the issue of how to get the stuff delivered


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

TomBurtonArt said:


> Second hand, from a reputable seller such as @gaggiamanualservice who fully refurbishes and fits the recommended mods for £150 usually.
> 
> The old classics are better, but are more numerous in the market and are by definition older so have lost value. You won't lose money on a 6-10 year old classic though, as long as it's looked after.
> 
> ...


cheers . So roughly 150 on a second hand Gaggia , 60 on accessories and the rest ( 150- 200) on the best grinder I can get and no doubt is recommended. A bottomless portafiller is recompended also ? What are the mods that a reputable seller will put onto an old classic ? Steam wand etc and general refurbishment ? Addictive stuff.


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

grumpydaddy said:


> Just out of curiosity Captain, where do you live?
> 
> Finding equipment locally resolves the issue of how to get the stuff delivered


Cheltenham. If anyone knows of a good place to get a decent espresso/cappuccino (lactose free!) in the meantime; not that I'm asking for much !


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

not that far from me if you need any help


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

CaptainCoffee said:


> cheers . So roughly 150 on a second hand Gaggia , 60 on accessories and the rest ( 150- 200) on the best grinder I can get and no doubt is recommended. A bottomless portafiller is recompended also ? What are the mods that a reputable seller will put onto an old classic ? Steam wand etc and general refurbishment ? Addictive stuff.


Steam wand, new seals if required and larger "pre-phillips" solenoid valve are the necessary mods. Some people will choose to do the OPV mod too (turning a screw essentially) but this is down to the individual.

Bottomless isn't necessary and you should only think of this after buying the best grinder you can get. You can always pick up a cheap second hand portafilter and cut it with a hole saw to make it bottomless (I did this).

You could contact @coffeechap and find out what grinders he has in your budget, you should be able to afford a Mazzer SuperJolly which is a commercial machine capable of excellent quality grinds.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

A trip down to Cirencester to visit Rave Coffee might be a good thing too. Not that far to go for espresso or beans. I really don't know if they have a lactose free option.

(My thoughts on distance are the result of living at the end of the world almost)


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Nope . Plymouth is a fair trek from anywhere !!! Can I contact these reputable sellers directly ?


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## Andrewb (Mar 14, 2016)

I started off with a gaggia classic about 10 years ago, spurred on my brother who had worked with an italian who got him hooked! I believe I paid around £85 playing with it for a couple of years including adding a PID, then selling for a small profit (with PID removed)! I then went onto a 'plumbed in' 1 group commercial which I bought off ebay for £150, which was certainly an upgrade, more so in the steam department.

I was then presented with the opportunity to acquire 2x 2 group la marzocco linea at a 'buy it now' bargain price, one in daily use and the other in parts around the house in the process on being assembled. Along the way I picked up a mazzer super jolly and a popcorn marker for roasting green beans.

However recently I have been aquiring Gaggia classics for upgrade and resale. Therefore I have been using a number of gaggia classics regularly over the past month or so. I had forgotten how good the classic is, especially for espresso. I have no problem producing a good crema even using supermarket beans (currently using Taylor's Italian beans), it has highlighted a deficiency in either my barista skills or the linea set-up or both!. Obviously the steaming capability is never going to be anything like a commercial machine.

These machines are also built to last and easy to work on if they do stop working. Therefore my recommendation would be a second hand Gaggia Classic which would allow you to buy the other items you will need :- Burr grinder, jugs, good tamper etc.


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Right then , a second hand Gaggia it is hopefully from here if I can contact one , accessories and then second hand grinder . At least that's decisions made , just need to find the right sellers . A couple mentioned in here so will look at trying to contact them. Thanks to all for the advice . Much appreciated so far


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Take the gamble on the gumtree pair in Cornwall mentioned tonight on here maybe. That is your first upgrade done right there


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

grumpydaddy said:


> Take the gamble on the gumtree pair in Cornwall mentioned tonight on here maybe. That is your first upgrade done right there


I can't access it as have only done 13 posts and need 20 to acces the gumtree section


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CaptainCoffee said:


> I can't access it as have only done 13 posts and need 20 to acces the gumtree section


Google and gumtree are your friend


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

If you look at new posts you'll see the titles... Then head to Gumtree...

I honestly went "wow... Cornwall... It's not *that* far with tiny children" (from North York's) if you can get it do. At that price if it's broken it's still super cheap and fixable.


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## grindandbrew (May 23, 2014)

Hi CaptainCoffee, like everyone says the grinder is more important than the machine, if you can pick up a cheap Gaggia classic on ebay or even a Gaggia TEBE, they go for next to nothing on and, from what i understand, are identical to the classic except the case, the styling may not be to everyone's taste but the result in the cup it will be the same. Also the original Silvia steam wand upgrade will fit the tebe as well as the classic.

Use the rest of the money to spend on a grinder at the very least an MC2 or a Eureka Mignon or even a used Mazzer from ebay.

Presuming we are workign to you max budget You should be able to pick up a TEBE for £50 on ebay, £15 for a steam wand upgrade leaving £280 to buy a Mignon or a good used Mazzer...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gaggia-Tebe-Espresso-Machine-Grey-/121918184522?hash=item1c62e3dc4a:g:mC4AAOSwoudW30TW

Good luck !

Chris


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## CaptainCoffee (Mar 13, 2016)

Have scouted a few Gaggias on eBay and even a Tebe . Have also been on the "Sage" forum and looked at a lot of comments about the Duo Temp Pro which I've always liked the idea of . Lots of good feedback on there about this . I know it's expensive but like the idea of buying a new machine. I have a birthday coming up and have asked for some money towards a machine . That may leave me with enough money for a decent grinder . Just like the fact that I may not need to do any mods as my DIY skill are sadly lacking . Like the fact the cappuccino making facilities are rated as are espresso although read that portafiller and tamping isn't the best ? All about opinions I guess and others experience. There is a refurbished Sage duo temp pro on eBay for £240 . Good reviews from the seller . But only a two month warranty ? As opposed to £315 new with a 2 year warranty . New this would happen . Research and forum addicted !


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