# Delonghi ESAM 4200 spilling coffe inside machine



## Capa

Hi everyone, having a problem with my ESAM 4200 bought from John Lewis about a year ago and would appreciate opinions/others experience with this machine.

Essentially the machine starts to drop moist grounds into the machine, rather then them going into the bin adjacent to the filter. The filter iteself will also be caked in moist grounds. This makes the machine a pain to use, as parts of the machine interior are not easy to clean. Moreover, since the grounds are moist they can get mouldy quite quickly.

The machine is only used to make one or two cups of coffee every morning and is de-scaled using Delonghi Branded de-scaler (the indicator light appears to come on once a month). Moreover, I've started rinsing the filter after the last cup every morning, yet it still won't prevent the problem.

I had the same problem a few months after I got the machine, and John Lewis sent it back for repair. Since then it has only been used a couple of months (been in storage during move and house renovation) and the issue appears to have re-appeared.

I've been given some Kopi Luwak for my birthday, so am pretty annoyed the machine has failed again. Therefore am thiknig I will press John Lewis for a replacement this time. Has anyone else experienced similar problems? As I'm currently unsure wether to change manufacturer/model.

Appreciate any help or experience you can share.


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## RoloD

I had one of these machines for a couple of weeks and I failed to get a decent cup of espresso out of it (although I know others here have).

My feeling is that although the machine is ingenious, it is also very complicated and the build quality could be better. Much of it, as you know, is constructed out of plastic and I can't see it lasting that long.

I sold mine on eBay and bought a second hand Gaggia Classic instead. And I'm very glad I did.


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## DonRJ

I assume you have the John Lewis 5 year warranty, so would suggest pressing them for either a replacement or perhaps a refund. What to go for as an alternative, I would hesitate to suggest where to go without having an idea of budget and whether you would consider a semi automatic as opposed to a full auto machine.


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## Capa

Thanks for the responses.

The machine is still within the 2 year warranty, I'm unsure if John Lewis offer the 5 year warranty on coffee machines aswell. Ultimately I bought it from them because its my first coffee machine and I felt they are more likely (then the likes of DSG group) to do the right thing should things go wrong. I guess I will be finding out if I was correct unfortunately.

It was a present from my girlfriend, so I wouldn't want to spend too much more as she may feel obliged to pay the extra despite my protestations. But I also don't want to be stuck with a dud









I'm not sure how I'd fare with a Semi. The extent of work needed for my morning coffee with this one (when its working properly) is tolerable:

1) Press the button to dispense coffe

2) Steam Milk

3) Release some water from steam dispenser to clean it

4) Repeat 1 to 3 for second cup

5) Rinse and fill milk jug with water +drop of washing up liquid

6) Drop the steamer nozzles in there and leave to clean

Every few days (because of problems first time) I pull the filter unit and give it a quick rinse. And once a month I de-scale and clean the whole thing.

The issue I have is, I'm now not sure if this is the type of experience I should expect with this Bean to Cup over its lifetime. Or infact thats just the best case scenario, interspersed with problems.

If I was to go semi-auto, how much more work do you feel it would involve (if you have experience of an auto also) and what components would you recommend?

Thanks again fr taking the time to help


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## twojags

Hi. I've had similar problems and have been trying to troubleshoot it. I think it's a problem with the water flow resulting in a not very compacted "puck".

I've cleaned up the strainer on the fixed piston tucked away in the top right inside and also cleaned and regreased the seal. I've also dismantled the removable piston unit. I think the problem is probably due to fine coffee dust blocking the spring loaded valve under the strainer on this unit. You need to remove the centre screw of the strainer and the strainer itself. Get a bristle brush and scrub the underside of the strainer and the plastic piston head. You'll see a little dimple on one side inside a circular insert that looks a bit like a castle turret. This comes out and is just a push fit. Use a broad flat blade/screwdriver to engage opposite slots and turn it back and forth to loosen it. It's not threaded and is just a push fit. If it won't readily pop up under the spring pressure carefully use some fine pointed pliers to gently pull up on one of the edges. The spring and plunger may fly out when it comes out so take care not to lose them. Flush the recess beneath with water. You can manually push the piston right down so that it flushes through the outlet as well. Scrub the valve clean then replace it. Try and line up the slots so there's no blockage to flow by the projections on the piston. Replace the strainer and screw.

While you're there, on the bottom of the piston slider is a plastic spring clip like a c clip. Gently prize the ends out to slide it off and pull out the bottom slider. Then push the piston out from below. Carefully remove the rubber seals without damaging them with a blunt instrument. Clean the grooves and seal and re grease with silicon grease (Maplin do it) New seals are about £2.50 each and you need three so it's worth considering replacing them altogether while you're at it.

That seems to have worked for me so far....

Best wishes

John


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## twojags

Update since my last post. Those things worked a bit but eventually it stopped pumping water properly and the low water light was coming on. After a bit of substitution with my other machine it turned out to be the pump unit. I dismantled this and took out the piston. It was sticking in the tube. I lubricated it with silicon grease and the spilling coffee problem has disappeared. If you do this instead of replacing the pump take careful note of how the springs and o rings fit as you take it apart.

Regards

John


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## espressotechno

Could also be the piston o-ring seal in the brewer unit, which tend to tear / split / pop out of the groove. As a general rule, replace the piston o-ring whenever the brewer unit is worked on.......saves hassle later on !


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## Ina

Ihave exact the same issue after loving my machine for 2 years, i noticedcthe lubrication and seals got coffee debris and suspected this is contributing to not properly disposing coffe into the inside bin. Will try this filter cleaningvtip. Thanks


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## Anto_bt

twojags said:


> Update since my last post. Those things worked a bit but eventually it stopped pumping water properly and the low water light was coming on. After a bit of substitution with my other machine it turned out to be the pump unit. I dismantled this and took out the piston. It was sticking in the tube. I lubricated it with silicon grease and the spilling coffee problem has disappeared. If you do this instead of replacing the pump take careful note of how the springs and o rings fit as you take it apart.


Can you tell me explain me more how did you lubricated tube. Where can I find the tube (what is the tube?).

Because I have new coffee machine and it is throwing coffee everywhere after he make coffee.

Thank you


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## Peter2016

As a newbie to this forum and as I had this exact problem, here's my input.

Having read all the posts here and other places, I decided to check out the infuser piston as a likely area. Using the very good vdieos on youtube to explain how to strip and clean the infuser, I did this. A word of warning. Use only silicon grease. I initially tried lithium as I didnt have any silicon grease around. Had to do it all again as this was only made matters worse.

So I stripped the piston out, as per the videos, cleaned the o rings and channels, which after two years were real mucky. So using the silicon grease, which I had to buy in a large spray can as I couldnt find any of the small tubes they used to sell, sprayed all the moving parts and the o rings, and gently replaced the o rings and piston.Then found out there are two ways to insert the piston back into the infuser, the right way, and the wrong way. Wrong way takes about ten minutes to work out why it doesnt all fit.

All back together and for the last two weeks coffee as good as the day we bought it, and minimal spillage of grounds inside. The discarded pucks are solid.

So thanks to all the previous postings, and really this all takes about half an hour or so to do. Tools needed, small screwdriver, dry cloth, silicon grease, and common sense when replacing the parts. The o rings are fairly tough, but dont push your luck be gentle with them.

Good luck


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## mmmatron

I had a similar machine for a few years, this was a persistent problem. The faff on trying to keep it clean inside and the poor results in the cup really didn't justify the price and supposed ease of use.


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## Vaide

Peter2016 said:


> As a newbie to this forum and as I had this exact problem, here's my input.
> 
> Having read all the posts here and other places, I decided to check out the infuser piston as a likely area. Using the very good vdieos on youtube to explain how to strip and clean the infuser, I did this. A word of warning. Use only silicon grease. I initially tried lithium as I didnt have any silicon grease around. Had to do it all again as this was only made matters worse.
> 
> So I stripped the piston out, as per the videos, cleaned the o rings and channels, which after two years were real mucky. So using the silicon grease, which I had to buy in a large spray can as I couldnt find any of the small tubes they used to sell, sprayed all the moving parts and the o rings, and gently replaced the o rings and piston.Then found out there are two ways to insert the piston back into the infuser, the right way, and the wrong way. Wrong way takes about ten minutes to work out why it doesnt all fit.
> 
> All back together and for the last two weeks coffee as good as the day we bought it, and minimal spillage of grounds inside. The discarded pucks are solid.
> 
> So thanks to all the previous postings, and really this all takes about half an hour or so to do. Tools needed, small screwdriver, dry cloth, silicon grease, and common sense when replacing the parts. The o rings are fairly tough, but dont push your luck be gentle with them.
> 
> Good luck


Peter2016, I have the same question and I cannot find any videos on youtube. Would you be so kind and maybe put links in here, if it's allowed, of course. I'd be grateful.


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## Roman Zouev

Vaide, this should help:


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## 007

Peter2016 said:


> ...I decided to check out the infuser piston as a likely area. Using the very good vdieos on youtube to explain how to strip and clean the infuser, I did this. ...


I figured out the same but slightly different, so I'll add my story anyway.

I had both dry and wet grounds spilling without forming a puck or forming only a very thin puck.

I eventually figured out this meant the piston (the filter part) wasn't dropping down to form a portafilter portion (the cup where the coffee bean sits). So the top of the infuser stays flat just like when we are washing it, and the coffee bean spills. Before the water comes through -> dry beans. After water comes through -> wet beans.

I had so many weak, undrinkable cups out of my Magnifica before I figured this out.

Solution is to clean the infuser inside, replace 2 o rings, and lubricate the shaft.


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## DavecUK

I wish they wouldn't revive 4 year old threads and I wish I would notice when they do.


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## stuart johnson

DavecUK said:


> I wish they wouldn't revive 4 year old threads and I wish I would notice when they do.


I have had numerous issues with the coffee spilling out and have concluded that the piston assembly doesn't move the puck of spent coffee up in time to be swept across in to the waste bin. This effectively results in the puck of coffee being cut in two and a lot of spillage. I believe the issue is the silicone o rings used in piston assembly in diffuser and the food grade grease. I was sent a new diffuser unit and my issue was solved for several months but then the issue occurred again, so I dismantled the grey diffuser unit cleaned the o rings and grooves and re greased with silicone grease and the unit worked fine. However the fault reoccurred again and Im doing this process every 3 months and Im fed up having to do this maintenance, and so as I work in the chemical industry and have access to data I started researching o rings grease etc.

Anyway I concluded most food grade grease is silicone based and contains PDMS (Polydimethylsiloxane) but if the silicone o rings contain PDMS as well they react and will swell up the piston assembly gets tight etc. Spare o rings form delonghi are £2,50 but you can get then for 23 p from most o ring suppliers. However Ive researched and found EPDM o rings are compatible with temperature and silicone grease. So Ive ordered 10 and am going to trial them.

See quote from grease manufacturer we use. I contacted delonghi to ask what the specification of the o rings are but they said they come from Italy and don't know any more, I asked about the food grade grease but they cant tell me what brand it is or if it contains PDMS. Either way this issue with swelling o rings will always happen with silicone o rings and silicone grease. Ive tried to find a suitable silicone o ring food use compatible grease but am struggling.

So I will install my EPDM o rings and trial the unit. But the long and the short of it is you will have to remove you diffuser when the machine is off dismantle the grey diffuser, clean the grooves the o rings sit in and periodically replace them as the do swell up. they are supposed to be 44mm OD mine ar 45MM and more. Im happy to try and help if people have questions.

Dear Stuart Johnson,

thank you for contacting Dow Corning.

Regarding your inquiry:

I recommend MOLYKOTE® 111 COMPOUND for use of O-rings in your coffee machineapplication. This products meets several global standards for water contact andis known as used by customers for this specific application to lubricate.Attached you will find the product data sheet (TDS).

The materials sometimes react with each other because of PDMS(=Polydimethylsiloxane) content in both.

Therefore please get in contact with your O-ring manufacturer and ask for theformulation and if it is compatible with a silicone oil based compound. I alsorecommend to test our product in order to clarify the suitability at all.


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## Guest

Just for the record - I found this page and it was helpful to me...
I had the same problem (grounds piling onto top of infuser) and it seems to have been sorted by giving it a good clean and going back to my tried and trusted beans. I think that the cheaper ones I had been testing out maybe were too oily and they caused the blockage?


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## Renato114

stuart johnson said:


> I have had numerous issues with the coffee spilling out and have concluded that the piston assembly doesn't move the puck of spent coffee up in time to be swept across in to the waste bin. This effectively results in the puck of coffee being cut in two and a lot of spillage. I believe the issue is the silicone o rings used in piston assembly in diffuser and the food grade grease. I was sent a new diffuser unit and my issue was solved for several months but then the issue occurred again, so I dismantled the grey diffuser unit cleaned the o rings and grooves and re greased with silicone grease and the unit worked fine. However the fault reoccurred again and Im doing this process every 3 months and Im fed up having to do this maintenance, and so as I work in the chemical industry and have access to data I started researching o rings grease etc.
> 
> Anyway I concluded most food grade grease is silicone based and contains PDMS (Polydimethylsiloxane) but if the silicone o rings contain PDMS as well they react and will swell up the piston assembly gets tight etc. Spare o rings form delonghi are £2,50 but you can get then for 23 p from most o ring suppliers. However Ive researched and found EPDM o rings are compatible with temperature and silicone grease. So Ive ordered 10 and am going to trial them.
> 
> See quote from grease manufacturer we use. I contacted delonghi to ask what the specification of the o rings are but they said they come from Italy and don't know any more, I asked about the food grade grease but they cant tell me what brand it is or if it contains PDMS. Either way this issue with swelling o rings will always happen with silicone o rings and silicone grease. Ive tried to find a suitable silicone o ring food use compatible grease but am struggling.
> 
> So I will install my EPDM o rings and trial the unit. But the long and the short of it is you will have to remove you diffuser when the machine is off dismantle the grey diffuser, clean the grooves the o rings sit in and periodically replace them as the do swell up. they are supposed to be 44mm OD mine ar 45MM and more. Im happy to try and help if people have questions.
> 
> Dear Stuart Johnson,
> 
> thank you for contacting Dow Corning.
> 
> Regarding your inquiry:
> 
> I recommend MOLYKOTE® 111 COMPOUND for use of O-rings in your coffee machineapplication. This products meets several global standards for water contact andis known as used by customers for this specific application to lubricate.Attached you will find the product data sheet (TDS).
> 
> The materials sometimes react with each other because of PDMS(=Polydimethylsiloxane) content in both.
> 
> Therefore please get in contact with your O-ring manufacturer and ask for theformulation and if it is compatible with a silicone oil based compound. I alsorecommend to test our product in order to clarify the suitability at all.





stuart johnson said:


> I have had numerous issues with the coffee spilling out and have concluded that the piston assembly doesn't move the puck of spent coffee up in time to be swept across in to the waste bin. This effectively results in the puck of coffee being cut in two and a lot of spillage. I believe the issue is the silicone o rings used in piston assembly in diffuser and the food grade grease. I was sent a new diffuser unit and my issue was solved for several months but then the issue occurred again, so I dismantled the grey diffuser unit cleaned the o rings and grooves and re greased with silicone grease and the unit worked fine. However the fault reoccurred again and Im doing this process every 3 months and Im fed up having to do this maintenance, and so as I work in the chemical industry and have access to data I started researching o rings grease etc.
> 
> Anyway I concluded most food grade grease is silicone based and contains PDMS (Polydimethylsiloxane) but if the silicone o rings contain PDMS as well they react and will swell up the piston assembly gets tight etc. Spare o rings form delonghi are £2,50 but you can get then for 23 p from most o ring suppliers. However Ive researched and found EPDM o rings are compatible with temperature and silicone grease. So Ive ordered 10 and am going to trial them.
> 
> See quote from grease manufacturer we use. I contacted delonghi to ask what the specification of the o rings are but they said they come from Italy and don't know any more, I asked about the food grade grease but they cant tell me what brand it is or if it contains PDMS. Either way this issue with swelling o rings will always happen with silicone o rings and silicone grease. Ive tried to find a suitable silicone o ring food use compatible grease but am struggling.
> 
> So I will install my EPDM o rings and trial the unit. But the long and the short of it is you will have to remove you diffuser when the machine is off dismantle the grey diffuser, clean the grooves the o rings sit in and periodically replace them as the do swell up. they are supposed to be 44mm OD mine ar 45MM and more. Im happy to try and help if people have questions.
> 
> Dear Stuart Johnson,
> 
> thank you for contacting Dow Corning.
> 
> Regarding your inquiry:
> 
> I recommend MOLYKOTE® 111 COMPOUND for use of O-rings in your coffee machineapplication. This products meets several global standards for water contact andis known as used by customers for this specific application to lubricate.Attached you will find the product data sheet (TDS).
> 
> The materials sometimes react with each other because of PDMS(=Polydimethylsiloxane) content in both.
> 
> Therefore please get in contact with your O-ring manufacturer and ask for theformulation and if it is compatible with a silicone oil based compound. I alsorecommend to test our product in order to clarify the suitability at all.


 Hi Stuart.

I found your comment spot on, based on my previous experiences. I own a Delonghi ESAM4400, I know it is an old coffee machine (10 years +), but I keep it well maintained and I love its coffee. Anyway, like you, I did buy a bundle of replacement o-rings for my machine, which despite of me keeping it greased often, they never last as long as the original ones (probably 5 years the three of the original ones), and when I replaced them they did not break like the original ones, but they were all swollen, so your observation about the silicon reaction (PDMS) is spot on. I see that you posted your findings back in 2017 (4 years ago), so I was wondering if you managed to find the right grease for keeping the o-rings nice and snugged in place, so they may last for years. By the way, I just came to this post because I am tired of getting soggy pucks.

I hope you still check this forum and may get back to us with your final experiment/conclusions.

Cheers.

Renato


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