# Distribution help please...



## Jon

I've possibly just made the best espresso I have ever made (and not even from not my most favorite beans)...

I think it was down to some new gear: VST/IMS shower screen/Naked PF.

But maybe I'm just justifying the splurge.

Anyway - when using the PF I can now see how the coffee is extracting, and, well, it's not 100% even!

Does anyone have any recommendations for optimal distribution please?

(I'm using the Olympus 75e)


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## froggystyle

I give up trying to achieve 100% even distribution, no matter what i try in the IMS and naked it always splits at some point...

I don't get hung up on it anymore, just enjoy my shot.


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## Dylan

First and foremost: If it tastes good dont worry too much about the way it extracts.

However, perfecting that pour and seeing if it tastes better when it pours well is worth finding out.

Try 'WDT' which is using a cocktail stick to distribute and level the grounds, see:

https://www.home-barista.com/weiss-distribution-technique.html


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## The Systemic Kid

Does your machine allow pre-infusion as this helps. Put up a clip - we love clips

But if it tastes great, wouldn't worry.


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## Jon

Thanks guys good advice! Yeah cool (was hoping wdt wasn't necessary with the 75e) - will try.


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## Jon

The Systemic Kid said:


> Does your machine allow pre-infusion as this helps. Put up a clip - we love clips
> 
> But if it tastes great, wouldn't worry.


I think that only works if plumbed in - doesn't it - on the Rocket?

I'm not plumbed - yet!

I really think the IMS or the VST or the Naked are helping - does anyone else have experience of this?


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## jeebsy

Don't piss about with WDT, you shouldn't need it on the 75e.

How are you levelling the basket?

You might be able to preinfuse, if you lift the lever past halfway but not so much the pump comes on do you get a dribble?


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## froggystyle

Not possible on rockets i don't think, mine is either on or off, no matter how gentle you are.


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## jeebsy

I thought it was an e61 thing

Mine does this off tank oe bottle


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## Jon

jeebsy said:


> How are you levelling the basket?


Depends on how the winds blowing - honestly, there is no hard and fast rule - all suggestions welcome!


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## jeebsy

jonc said:


> Depends on how the winds blowing - honestly, there is no hard and fast rule - all suggestions welcome!


A tap on the counter or your wrist to settle the grinds then tamp. Make it consistent.


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## Jon

I was doing a downward tap or three - then Joe who bought my Mythos suggested a sideways tap?

Any thoughts on advantages/disadvantages to either?


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## Dylan

jeebsy said:


> Don't piss about with WDT, you shouldn't need it on the 75e.


It would be foolish to discount something completely without trying it, imo.

-

Any tapping thats too hard or sharp can, in theory, 'migrate fines' and cause more problems than it solves, as can shaking.

Personally, I wiggle a small amount to level the bed of coffee, and I dont tap. Who knows if the 'migrating fines' idea has any basis, but this works for me. But I think its worth experimenting with any/all ideas until you find something that suits you best.

I never get all perfect pours, but its a better ratio than it was a while ago.


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## jeebsy

http://baristahustle.com/distribution-for-espresso/


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## Dylan

jeebsy said:


> http://baristahustle.com/distribution-for-espresso/


Did he ever actually do the experiment?

Edit: nvm, found the blog post.


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## urbanbumpkin

jeebsy said:


> Don't piss about with WDT, you shouldn't need it on the 75e.


I agree, you shouldn't need it


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## Dylan

The actual experiment is a bit disappointing in its scope, his methods seem fairly sensible.


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## The Systemic Kid

Very *slight * tap to settle any caverns. Also, the more level the grinds prior to tamping, the more even the pour should be. It's also very easy to exert pressure unevenly, i.e. to one side when tamping which also doesn't help.


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## johnealey

You could also try a NSEW gentle nutate but would still go with the "if it tastes good, don't sweat the small stuff" school of thought 

You may also be tying yourself up in knots about something that may well settle down the more beans you put through your new burrs, just a thought.

John


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## Jon

Thanks all!


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## Jumbo Ratty

after filling the PF as level as I can I then knock on the side with my knuckle to settle the grinds,, seems to make them nice and even prior to tamping.


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## froggystyle

jeebsy said:


> I thought it was an e61 thing
> 
> Mine does this off tank oe bottle


Everyday is a school day, just checked and you can get a dribble out before the pump kicks in, you just have to hit the sweet spot on the lever.

Something else to piss about with now and screw up my coffee, great!


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## garydyke1

WDT = why do this


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## risky

garydyke1 said:


> WDT = why do this


This man speaks the truth. Most consistent I've seen is when not faffing about. All that nonsense with a skewer and for what? Didn't make the coffee taste any better.


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## @[email protected]

jonc said:


> I think that only works if plumbed in - doesn't it - on the Rocket?
> 
> I'm not plumbed - yet!


I can do the pre-infusion as shown in Jeebsy vid. It was demo'ed to me by machina-espresso when I bought my rocket from them, lift lever to around 8 o'clock and the valve will open without the pump kicking in. Not sure how effective it is though without the water pressure of a plumbed in system.

Edit-ignore me didn't see the post that you'd worked it out yourself.


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## urbanbumpkin

WDT worked well for me with the Mignon. But anything with a doser should distribute it nicely.


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## Sk8-bizarre

Hmmmm I clearly need to level my grinds before tamping a little. I have been trying different methods of taps, tilts, shakes which in some cases has helped I'm still adjusting and finding the one for me. Doing so also has helped with me getting a more level tamp which when you think about it is a logical result one to effect the other.

I wasn't doing it to much before as I got hung up on the grind, tamp, pull leave faff advise etc.

It's a fine line though a little to vigorous and things can seem to chanel more.

I'm still working out what's best for me leveling wise but from my fiddling so far a little faff from results since having/playing with the SJ helps rather than harms. I just need to pick the best and refine.

As for that WDT thing I tried it with the MC2 when running. Pointless waste of time as far as I could tell apart from one dark bean that was just clumping like mad, full chunky, it seemed to help then all the other beans I tried nah just making it take longer to get your shot in your mouth.


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## forzajuve

Less is more. 1 or 2 taps to level the pile and 1 gentle tap to settle and you're off. Not only is this quicker but it improves consistency. Oh and don't finger the coffee, never understood that one. Why would I want to drink something that someone has pushed around with their fingers!?


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## Dylan

forzajuve said:


> Less is more. 1 or 2 taps to level the pile and 1 gentle tap to settle and you're off. Not only is this quicker but it improves consistency. Oh and don't finger the coffee, never understood that one. Why would I want to drink something that someone has pushed around with their fingers!?


Why would you want to eat something someone has prepared with their fingers?


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## garydyke1

Chefs dont touch anything with their fingers


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## Xpenno

I think a lot of this dont use your finger bs came from Matt Perger's discussion on Batista Hustle about distribution. He said its unacceptable.

In an unrelated story I went to see Matt Perger after he wrote this and he made me 8 coffees and he used his stockfleth tech to level each and every bed. I drank them and they tasted like coffee.


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## fluffles

perger exposed


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> I think a lot of this dont use your finger bs came from Matt Perger's discussion on Batista Hustle about distribution. He said its unacceptable.
> 
> In an unrelated story I went to see Matt Perger after he wrote this and he made me 8 coffees and he used his stockfleth tech to level each and every bed. I drank them and they tasted like coffee.


Not finger...... ?


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Not finger...... ?


What?


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> What?


They tasted of coffee not finger


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## The Systemic Kid

fluffles said:


> perger exposed


things move on - keep up


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> They tasted of coffee not finger


Now you come to mention it something was a little fishy!


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## jeebsy

Finger, fish, coffee, i can't keep up


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Finger, fish, coffee, i can't keep up


Chicken, duck ,goatz


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## Jon

Split?


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## froggystyle

He had a split finger?


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## Jon

Sounds nasty.


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## Jon

p.s. distribution wise I'm rolling with the gentle side tap.


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## urbanbumpkin

Mrboots2u said:


> They tasted of coffee not finger


The taste of Perger ..................hmmmmm!


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## Xpenno

jonc said:


> p.s. distribution wise I'm rolling with the gentle side tap.


Sorry, nearly forgot that this thread had a purpose!!!

I find that a few gentle side taps followed by a couple of gentle taps on a soft surface usually do the trick provided that grinds are evenly distributed in the first place.


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## froggystyle

+1 Xpenno, keep it simple every time.


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## Jon

Xpenno said:


> nearly forgot that this thread had a purpose!!!


Don't worry!



Xpenno said:


> provided that grinds are evenly distributed in the first place.


Does a big fat central mountainous pile count as even distribution - or should I be moving my basket around more, please?


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## Xpenno

jonc said:


> Does a big fat central mountainous pile count as even distribution - or should I be moving my basket around more, please?


Usually, yes.


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## jeebsy

IMAG2001_1 by wjheenan, on Flickr

I would tap that slightly to settle


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## jeebsy

What weight are you dosing into your basket?


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## Jon

Xpenno said:


> Usually, yes.


Sorry - 'yes' to which part please?


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## Jon

jeebsy said:


> What weight are you dosing into your basket?


At the moment I'm using an 18g VST at about 17-ish g


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## Xpenno

jonc said:


> Sorry - 'yes' to which part please?


Sorry, yes to the even distribution.

As per jeebsy's pic I would be tapping that mound.


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## The Systemic Kid

Did I recall MP saying that the grinds should be level before you think about tamping?


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## coffeechap

jeebsy said:


> IMAG2001_1 by wjheenan, on Flickr
> 
> I would tap that slightly to settle


do you like it that much then?


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## jeebsy

coffeechap said:


> do you like it that much then?


Everybody wants to tap that



Xpenno said:


> Sorry, yes to the even distribution.
> 
> As per jeebsy's pic I would be tapping that mound.


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## coffeechap

there is a lot of love in this thread


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## Jumbo Ratty

jeebsy said:


> IMAG2001_1 by wjheenan, on Flickr
> 
> I would tap that slightly to settle


I would level that first using my implement, then tap with knuckle to settle


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## froggystyle

Doesnt matter what you do with Lavazzzza, same outcome!


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## The Systemic Kid

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I would level that first using my implement, then tap with knuckle to settle


Too much information!


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## jlarkin

@jonc You mentioned it was probably (or similar wording) the best coffee you'd ever made - how good was it compared to all coffee you've had? Because what's interesting me is, why not try to recreate that. even if it doesn't look as pretty in the naked portafilter? I know channelling may indicate its not perfect but what is? You could throw away your chance of getting the same and incrementally improving by completely changing your distribution? Just a thought because I'm aware I do exactly that sort of thing a lot  and also interested to know what you're attempting next with it...


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## Jon

jlarkin said:


> @jonc You mentioned it was probably (or similar wording) the best coffee you'd ever made - how good was it compared to all coffee you've had? Because what's interesting me is, why not try to recreate that. even if it doesn't look as pretty in the naked portafilter? I know channelling may indicate its not perfect but what is? You could throw away your chance of getting the same and incrementally improving by completely changing your distribution? Just a thought because I'm aware I do exactly that sort of thing a lot  and also interested to know what you're attempting next with it...


It's hard to say because all the beans I have at the mo are not really astounding - but the different flavours and I suppose textures were really noticeable and interesting.

I've switched to a couple of different beans today with similar wowiness.

It's definitely in the realm of the better coffees I've had - without trying to sound too arrogant.

I think you're right I shouldn't try to do too many different things - a little shuffle of the bed is the new status quo and the extraction still seems good. I now need some different beans that I love to practice and perfect.

More excited about coffee than I've been for a while!


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## jlarkin

jonc said:


> It's hard to say because all the beans I have at the mo are not really astounding - but the different flavours and I suppose textures were really noticeable and interesting.
> 
> I've switched to a couple of different beans today with similar wowiness.
> 
> It's definitely in the realm of the better coffees I've had - without trying to sound too arrogant.
> 
> I think you're right I shouldn't try to do too many different things - a little shuffle of the bed is the new status quo and the extraction still seems good. I now need some different beans that I love to practice and perfect.
> 
> More excited about coffee than I've been for a while!


I'm not necessarily saying don't change things, it was just interesting to see the thinking in somebody else. Wow that was really good, now what can I change to make it better , instead of Nom more please, I'll do that again.

Just make sure you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater (can't remember the last time I heard somebody say that).

Sounds great though, definitely make sure you enjoy the coffee whilst tinkering


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## Jon

Thanks. Good advice!


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## d_lash

You started the thread talking about the evenness of extraction with the naked pf. I'm fairly new to all this, but this strikes me as something fundamental to good espresso. If the water is pissing through half the puck and oozing a few dribbles through the other, you aren't going to make good coffee, not unless your taste preference is for the special mix of flavours one can achieve with half-over, half-under extracted espresso.

I'm sure distribution is only one factor that can lead to uneven extraction. Grind, tamp pressure, dose appropriate to the basket spring to mind but probably there's more (esp if you can preinfuse?). In my mind though one has to aim for even extraction before one can really start fine tuning to adjust the taste in the cup.

Currently my grinder does a spectacular job of making clumpy grinds and I'm wasting a crazy amount of time trying to fix it with effortful distribution fiddling. Having read this thread I'll experiment again tomorrow with/without the faffing, but I'll be looking to maintain a nice even extraction.


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