# What first a grinder or Espresso Machine



## juwelkeeper (Feb 17, 2015)

Hi All

Whats more important a quality grinder or a Espresso machine. Looking to upgrade so what would make the most difference.

My set up is a delonghi eco 310 bk and a Krups F20342.


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## samjfranklin (Jan 1, 2015)

I think most people would say that their espresso is limited by their grinder. A grinder is so important for control.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Unfortunately the answer isn't quite as simple as one or the other.

Do you still have the pressurised PF in the machine? if so a new grinder will make little difference. It may be impossible or very easy to remove the pressurised bit of the PF, it depends on the machine.

A good grinder won't get you that far with that machine, typically machines like that have very small boilers which give inconsistent temperature. The pressure is too high and can be erratic, all of which contributes to a bad shot.

Your current grinder will likely not even grind fine enough for a proper machine like the Gaggia Classic, intact going from a pressurised to a non-pressurised machine may actually be a step backward with a grinder like the Krups.

All that said some people do make it work as a first step. My very first machine was a Gaggia Cubika and an Iberital MC2, I had temp problems but at the time the coffee was the best I had had and it tasted great to me.

The grinder ultimately provides the biggest range of difference from most basic to most advanced. Machines tend to jump in quality, but are all over in price. Here a Gaggia Classic is considered entry level, which is a small single boiler. Then you have HX machines which are 3-5x the price and then double boiler machines which are 5-20x the price.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I think Dylan is right. It looks like you are genuinely interested in pursuing good espresso drinks. In which case, you will need to upgrade both your grinder and your machine.

Reading about your machine I can see that the basket you put the coffee in has a single hole in it. This is the 'pressurised portafilter' that Dylan refers to. It's a trick to get the appearance of crema from poorly ground and not so fresh coffee.

To make espresso properly, you need a machine with many holes in the basket so that water can pass freely through the coffee extracting flavour. You control the speed of the extraction not by restricting the number of holes in the basket but by grinding fresh coffee finely enough that it resists flow. For that you need a good grinder. So you see, in your case, you need to upgrade both.

Perhaps not the answer you wanted but once you make the jump to a good grinder and machine you won't look back.

The jump needn't break the bank either. There's a strong second hand market in both machines and grinders. These two threads proved some excellent advice on what your money will get you.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17519-Machines-what-do-you-get-for-your-money

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17071-Grinders-what-do-you-get-for-your-money&highlight=grinders+money

Once you have a proper espresso machine then samjfranklin is right: most folk would say the grinder makes the biggest contribution to good espresso. But you need a proper machine first.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Shameless plug...

There is a nice little starter set up in the for sale section!


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Link: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=23265


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## juwelkeeper (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanks guys yeah had a feeling both might need to be upgraded. I will take a look at the for sale section as well , thanks for the links ?


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Grinder - ad infinitum


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

You'd be hard pressed to find a better start up set than the one froggystyle is selling in for sale section. Everything there you need. And very decent price.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Just to reiterate the above, that package is a true bargain at £200, everything you need to get going. If you are anywhere nearby to pickup I would bite his hand off!


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## iain66 (Mar 30, 2015)

I may be lurking a bit but alot of the questions I need to ask have been asked already this was something I needed help on as I feel its time to move on from my cheap set up


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