# Vaping in a Coffee Shop



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Had a bit of a run in with a ____head who was letting his vaping cloud waft into my face at a coffeeshop earlier. The staff were too afraid to say anything but I did get a free espresso for dealing with him.

Without this descending into a trollhole, what are the experience of others, on both sides of the fence if possible. If it's not legal to smoke indoors why would someone think it appropriate to vape?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Were there any signs saying "No Vaping" ?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I just did some research, and, according to what I found, the rules of cigarettes and "vaping" are not the same. Therefore, unless otherwise stated, appears that one is allowed to "vape" anywhere.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Vaping has got a bit out of hand. I remember folk vaping without the steam cloud that seem to be the norm now. When I can smell the bubble gum / blueberry / alco pop through my air con in the car from a vaper on the pavement I think it may have gone too far with the steam. I'm not a fan of cigarette smoke but equally dislike the chemical sickly fruit smell from vaping. To even this out I do love the smell of good pipe tobacco although this is now pretty much a thing of the past￼


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## caramel (Jun 22, 2016)

Even though 'passive vaping' isn't considered harmful, its pretty anti-social to be filling a coffee shop with it. I think it should be banned in places that smoking is banned. I didn't always think that, but they didn't always create giant clouds.

What I do always think though, is that the huge plume of vapour you see is a visual representative of what is coming out of everyone everyone when they breathe. We are constantly surrounded by and breathing each others breath


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Good on you for standing up to him. I smoke but never liked it when in a restaurant & always requested a non smoking area. I'm quite happy to go outside & so should vapers as its just as disgusting


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Personally I don't think it's nice and shouldn't be allowed in coffee shops or restaurants, but it's up to them to put up a no vaping sign and make it clear.

There's a few dedicated vaping shops and bars here now where you can happily vape away inside if you so choose, at least one serves coffee (not sure how good it is).


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

While waiting for a train on Saturday, sign on platform said. NO SMOKING OR VAPING. Gradually being included with smoking ?


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Now I cannot remember the source but some EU research has found that some e-liquids contain heavy metals and other nasties so these are not benign. Inhalation of secondary steam would surely than contain those same nasties. It is not for someone else to decide whether I undertake the risk even if slight (although I do not believe it to be slight myself).


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Being near someone who is vaping is not overly great for those with asthma, I.e. Me







This is mainly to do with the solvent but all the flavour additives don't help either

my workplace now classes vaping the same as smoking, put it that way. There was a period of vaping at desk before that. I'm pro vaping because generally it's a lot healthier than smoking, but it doesn't grant anyone the right to be antisocial about it, anymore than smoking did, and I speak as an ex smoker. Hell, smokers corner was probably the best thing about smoking


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

With the number of places mixing the chemicals / flavourings it would be difficult to know what you are sucking in:confused:







.


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## whip (Jul 9, 2016)

Personally I don't think people should be allowed to breathe in coffee shops either. Some people have terrible breath and who wants to inhale stinky second-hand breath? Do it outside.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

I'm a vaper, but wouldn't do it indoors, I treat it the same way as cigs. There is a vaping /coffee shop close to me and they advised that the legislation just now does not cover vaping, they also have a nice compak e8 so keeping an eye on when the fad ends to maybe pick up a bargain


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Interesting, it's just like when people wanted to ban smoking in pubs restaurants etc..

I remember some of the arguments back then "well pubs would make more money", "I would go to the pub if they banned smoking"...the fact that Landlords would have imposed a ban themselves if they felt it would make more money seemed to bypass these people.

How it should be in "public (privately owned)" places for things like smoking or vaping is: A proprietor should be able to decide whether their establishment is smoke free, vaping free, smoke allowed or vaping allowed in any combination they wish. If people want to go into a vaping free coffee shop, then they can, or they can choose to go into a vaping friendly coffee shop (pub, restaurant etc..). I don't really see the problem and privately owned establishments in the same way should be free to add a smoking option to this if they wish.

Staff can choose whether they want to work in these establishments or not, no ones forcing them and customers can choose whether they want to go in, again no ones forcing them. The market will ultimately find it's level and have a combination of establishments (coffee shops, bars restaurants etc..) that reflects the needs of their customers. Just for the particularly obtuse who seem to read all or nothing into things, this will subdivide into:


No smoking/vaping

Vaping friendly

vaping and smoking friendly

Smoking friendly


Now I personally see absolutely no problem with this at all, much as I wouldn't have had a problem with pubs etc.. having the ability to decide to go non smoking without having it imposed. Non smokers could choose where they wanted to go, same as smokers. of course that didn't happen and a lot of pubs closed as a result. Possibly because the non smokers still didn't flood the pubs with their new business to keep them afloat. I suspect one day we will try and ban alcohol from pubs or at least go to only low alcohol drinks.

Of course we always have people in society who wish to limit/control the choice of others, I think perhaps it gives them some perverse pleasure, but in a fair world and private establishments, the owner should be allowed to choose options that best reflect the majority of the customer base they wish to encourage. I should add that I am neither a smoker (I quit 16 years ago) or a vaper, but I do believe in peoples rights to enjoy it in the correct places. I can then choose to go to those places or not.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Interesting, it's just like when people wanted to ban smoking in pubs restaurants etc..
> 
> I remember some of the arguments back then "well pubs would make more money", "I would go to the pub if they banned smoking"...the fact that Landlords would have imposed a ban themselves if they felt it would make more money seemed to bypass these people.
> 
> ...


what happens if they come and sit next to you when you are halfway through your meal`/


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dallah said:


> Had a bit of a run in with a ____head who was letting his vaping cloud waft into my face at a coffeeshop earlier. The staff were too afraid to say anything but I did get a free espresso for dealing with him.
> 
> Without this descending into a trollhole, what are the experience of others, on both sides of the fence if possible. If it's not legal to smoke indoors why would someone think it appropriate to vape?


why not phone the venue before hand to ask about their policy if it bothers you that much


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

The problem was staff in pubs generally don't have a choice in whether they work in smokey conditions- if you want to eat, you have to work, if the only time you can work is an evening, your choices are extremely limited. Been there, done that.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But the more rights you give people, the more they want........where does it all stop..


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> what happens if they come and sit next to you when you are halfway through your meal`/


If I chose to go to a vaping/smoking whatever friendly establishment, then that's what I chose. I would just suck it up....if it bothered me that much I would have chosen a vape, smoke free whatever establishment wouldn't I? Jeeeze, I thought you wouldn't be one of the obtuse ones with this Dave....it's just common sense surely.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am not obtuse! I would go over and ram it up his nose and settle it there and then, but the point I am making, is you might see a suitable restaurant, go in and half way through your meal a gorilla comes in and starts vaping. This is different to sitting down at a table next to someone who is already.

Either way, if you object, either get up and walk out, or go over and have your 'chat' but don't bleat about it...on the richter scale of things that matter in life it registers 0.00001%


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I would go over and ram it up his nose and settle it there and then


Why not phone the venue beforehand if it bothers you that much?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jlarkin said:


> Why not phone the venue beforehand if it bothers you that much?


The only things that bother me, are things that actually matter....and this is not one of them. I have the utmost belief in myself to handle and sort out any situation, which is why I prefer to do everything myself.......If i was in Dallas shoes, it would have been sorted by one of the various options that were open to him


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Surely even if there is not a sign telling you "No Vaping" it is common courtesy to ask if it is permitted. It is something that obviously will impact on the people around you.

In my case there was lots of seating where there was no one on either side towards the back. The vaper sat beside me and started to puff away. I did ask politely for him to move. I then got an ear full of choice Anglo Saxon which is when things got confrontational

Common courtesy shouldn't need to be legislated. I think courtesy in society at large has slowly been eroded. No one offers a seat on public transport to those less able to stand, parents allow their children to run around bellowing in enclosed spaces, drivers won't allow another car in at a motorway on ramp etc.....

My mother and grandmother would have sent me on my way with a clip up the lughole if I behaved like that.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> Why not phone the venue beforehand if it bothers you that much?


Why assume it is permissible to blow a cloud of sickly sweet vapour filled with god knows what harmful components into someone else's face?

What happened to courtesy?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

so what is the policy on vaping in the coffee shop in question.

I did ask on the 2nd post of this thread yet you have failed to answer. It is quite pertinent to the thread

Im beginning to think it has no policy, and it was just you being offended, but would like to know.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dallah said:


> Why assume it is permissible to blow a cloud of sickly sweet vapour filled with god knows what harmful components into someone else's face?
> 
> What happened to courtesy?


If you are waiting for a bus at a bus stop and do not put your hand out, it goes sailing by. never assume that others will behave to your standards, then you will not be so easily disappointed


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Someone once tried to vape whilst having their eyes tested . I told them in no way was it acceptable . I was asked why ( enclosed room - in the dark - someone's working environment - other people use it after - common courtesy etc ) . I was told I was , in the words of iggy pop " no fun " ... and the then asked well what were they meant to do .. I said exhibit some self control and not vape for 30 minutes perhaps .... " well that's no fun is it "


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> so what is the policy on vaping in the coffee shop in question.
> 
> I did ask on the 2nd post of this thread yet you have failed to answer. It is quite pertinent to the thread
> 
> Im beginning to think it has no policy, and it was just you being offended, but would like to know.


The staff told me that the policy is no vaping but they have never had it come up in the past. Their working assumption was that no one would think to do it.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I can lend you a bellowing toddler. That way nobody will vape within 50 feet of you.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> If you are waiting for a bus at a bus stop and do not put your hand out, it goes sailing by. never assume that others will behave to your standards, then you will not be so easily disappointed


What has that got to do with the price of tea in China? That isn't an unspoken rule, courtesy etc....

It's policy and stated on the many of the bus stops in Manchester


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Dallah said:


> The staff told me that the policy is no vaping but they have never had it come up in the past. Their working assumption was that no one would think to do it.


So, what I take from this is that you had to ask.

You had to ask because there were no signs to the contrary.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Missy said:


> I can lend you a bellowing toddler. That way nobody will vape within 50 feet of you.


LOL. I've been through that phase of life. If the toddler is running up and down the aisle whole you chat to your friend without a care in the world that is completely different than a parent doing their level best to.comfort their child.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

I'm speaking as an ex smoker here, but there were always a bunch of rather militant smokers who highly resented not being able to smoke anywhere they damn well pleased. I don't count myself among them, but I definitely knew people who were like this.

With the advent of vaping these same people took a perverse delight in being able to 'smoke' at their desk again, or indeed anywhere (there were even people vaping on our plane when we flew to Turkey recently, despite being asked not to - the smoke detectors don't catch it y'see)

I think you caught one of the militant brigade, put it that way. I was always horrified if my smoking upset other people (unless I was in the designated smoking area of course), but some people seemed to love the conflict.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> So, what I take from this is that you had to ask.
> 
> You had to ask because there were no signs to the contrary.


There were no signs stating that I shouldn't take off my shoes and start to massage my smelly feet. Woukd that be acceptable? In my book the feet smell less than vape clouds


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Dallah said:


> There were no signs stating that I shouldn't take off my shoes and start to massage my smelly feet. Woukd that be acceptable? In my book the feet smell less than vape clouds


Yep. On the table. And trim your toenails at the same time. Good plan.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Dallah said:


> There were no signs stating that I shouldn't take off my shoes and start to massage my smelly feet. Woukd that be acceptable?


if you want to look like that kind of weirdo youd be thrown out and asked not to frequent the shop again I would hope.

Vaping in a coffee shop that doesnt have a no vaping sign up wouldnt make you look like a weirdo, just someone enjoying their vaporising Ecig whilst having a coffee they have paid for.

If you want to go around taking your shoes off and massaging your smelly feet whilst being a self appointed vaping vigilante thats your prerogative.

The coffee shop is at fault if it has a no vaping policy but no signs stating such.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

How many more pages will this thread go on.....crikey, man up a bit and stop blaming other people!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

This is actually quite an interesting ethical conundrum. I don't agree with the "if there's not a sign saying don't do it, then it's fine" brigade. You would need too many signs to account for every foreseeable possibility.

My view is that if the activity is the norm within the relevant environment, then it is tacitly permitted unless stated otherwise. The question is then "what is normal?". Again, a broad question, but vaping in a coffee shop (or any shop, other than a vaping supplies shop) would not be considered normal by any measure. This is why you can drink coffee, read, and politely chat; but you can't urinate on the tables.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

filthynines said:


> This is why you can drink coffee, read, and politely chat; but you can't urinate on the tables.


Brilliant summary, thanks.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> Brilliant summary, thanks.


OK. Well it's normative behaviour for teenagers now to play music from their phones through the speakers.

Because it is normal I am free to play Public Enemy for all to hear?

Claiming certain behaviour is normal because it aligns to your interests is specious at best.

Common courtesy. If all that matters to you is your interests and not the comfort of the people around you then that seems rather selfish.

Manners are nothing other than a recognition that your behaviour impacts the people around you and you do what you can to not make the people around you uncomfortable within reason. Its not a legal mandate to have good manners. If you are so addicted that you can't wait for 30 mins to get outside I feel bad for you.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> Brilliant summary, thanks.


Go back and read all of the post and not just the bit that suits you. He isn't agreeing with you. ;-)


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Dallah said:


> He isn't agreeing with you. ;-)


How do you know?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

This is nothing that a good tutting wouldn't have sorted out, a turn of the head in the perpetrators direction while doing it adds to the gravitas I find.

I would have gone for the single tut, I save the tut tut tut (triple tut) for other occasions


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## Glasgow Al (Feb 26, 2015)

Is that Emporium Vapour on Dumbarton rd?


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## Glasgow Al (Feb 26, 2015)

GCGlasgow said:


> I'm a vaper, but wouldn't do it indoors, I treat it the same way as cigs. There is a vaping /coffee shop close to me and they advised that the legislation just now does not cover vaping, they also have a nice compak e8 so keeping an eye on when the fad ends to maybe pick up a bargain


Is that Emporium Vapour on Dumbarton Rd?


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> How do you know?


Because English is my first language. I invite you again to read the post again.

I'll finish now as I can't state it in any other way. Its common courtesy and good manners. If you think your addiction trumps my right to breathe air free from your second hand harmful chemically laden steam have at it.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Dallah said:


> what are the experience of others, on both sides of the fence if possible. If it's not legal to smoke indoors why would someone think it appropriate to vape?





Dallah said:


> I'll finish now as I can't state it in any other way. Its common courtesy and good manners.


How peculiar that you instigate a discussion to hear both sides of the fence, but when faced with anyone with an opposing view bail out.


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## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

You'll have to forgive me for not reading the full five pages of comments before writing my own, and thus possible repeating what's already said, but...

Regardless of whether passive vaping is harmful, "giving off" visible/smelly(?) smoke in a public area just seems rude to me - I certainly would not feel comfortable vaping near others without permission (I don't smoke and don't ever wish to vape but just saying)


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Dallah said:


> Because English is my first language. I invite you again to read the post again.


I meant how do you know what my opinion is on all this?

@Dallah I, in turn, invite you to re-read all the posts, see where you think you can find my opinion, realise you were mistakenly thinking you could tell what my opinion was from a joke (echoing a comment from a few posts before it for intended comedic effect) and then do as you wish from that point on.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Dallah said:


> OK. Well it's normative behaviour for teenagers now to play music from their phones through the speakers.
> 
> Because it is normal I am free to play Public Enemy for all to hear?


You've selected the behaviour alone, but not its context. It might well be normative for teenagers to play loud music on speakers, though debateable. It is not normative for it to happen in an enclosed space such as a shop or restaurant. Context is key.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Perhaps I was not clear. Let me try again. Without a law in place I consider it rude, bad manners and indicative of selfishness that one would impose something which is unpleasant, potentially injurious and unnecessary upon someone else. That is something that someone is not going to change my mind about so my participation is of no use. I am not conceding the point I just fail to see what else there is to be said. An argument can come to stalemate. I can't think of anything else I could say to change the mind of @jlarkin. By all means descensus in cuniculi cavum


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Dallah said:


> I can't think of anything else I could say to change the mind of @ jlarkin


This is the final time I'll try to make this point - genuinely - you don't know what my opinion is.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I quite happily tell people we don't like it inside.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

And now for something completely different


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Comedy genius


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Comedy genius


No it's not!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

That the five minute 'no it's not' then??


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

No sir, I didn't like it........


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## Lefteye (Dec 30, 2014)

Is that from ren and stimpy?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Lefteye said:


> Is that from ren and stimpy?


Yep, best cartoon ever made.......for adults!


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Glasgow Al said:


> Is that Emporium Vapour on Dumbarton Rd?


Yeh that's the one


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## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

I find the worst part of the vaping, is just seeing ADULTS acting like young children with their comfort blanket. At almost any event - wedding, funeral, etc, as soon as possible, the vaporers will be outside with their little toy.

a bit like pokemon really


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

GrahamS said:


> I find the worst part of the vaping, is just seeing ADULTS acting like young children with their comfort blanket. At almost any event - wedding, funeral, etc, as soon as possible, the vaporers will be outside with their little toy.
> 
> a bit like pokemon really


That's rather odd @GrahamS, because I see something quite different when I see adults vaping?

I see adults doing their best to give up smoking which will shorten their lives, affect their families and places significant burden on the NHS. Trying to kick a cigarette habit which the tobacco companies spent billions and billions over the years promoting (with the blessing of the government). A product engineered to be as difficult as possible to give up and to be attractive to young people, even more so when they see others smoking..

Even if they only manage to replace smoking with Vaping, it's a start and a better one than I had when I gave up...all I got was an A5 poster for the fridge and a letter wishing me the best in my government anti smoking kit.

I see a country one day free of cigarettes and the misery they cause for young and old alike.....If Vaping is the first step in achieving that, then seeing them makes me a little happier and the world a slightly better place.


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## SmithStCoffeeRoasters (Feb 23, 2016)

we all know the long term effects of smoking we've absolutely no idea of the long term effects of vaping, i know which pony my money's on & it ain't good


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

I'm a vaper, I have a device that produces medium type clouds. I don't do this anywhere enclosed (even though it's 0% nicotine) I just find it rude to other people, if I didn't do it and didn't know what it was I wouldn't want someone breathing it into my direction so I don't do it. I do use it when outside sometimes, but avoid it if possible. If I can't go out for 2 or 3 hours without it I would say I have an issue


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

DavecUK said:


> I see a country one day free of cigarettes and the misery they cause for young and old alike.....If Vaping is the first step in achieving that, then seeing them makes me a little happier and the world a slightly better place.


I'm with you on this.

But I think the lairy colours, funky LEDs and striking branding is clearly trying to draw the kids in, sadly.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> This is the final time I'll try to make this point - genuinely - you don't know what my opinion is.


Fair enough. I'm not a mind reader and I may have misunderstood your point or maybe you were advocate diabolo.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Well I'm a big Vaper and I produce big clouds but I wouldn't see fit to fog up other people's space in a non vaping environment. Ok, if you are in a vaping cafe, it's fine, otherwise, it's inappropriate. The fog itself is totally harmless and although the flavour/ smell might appeal or not, there is no God given right to demand other non vapers to put up with you.

Vapers like that guy @Dallah had to deal with give decent respectable vapers a bad name and it's pillocks like that who give grist to the mill of regulation and taxation for a lifesaving alternative to smoking.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

As for concerns as to passive vaping (and various other vaping/health related issues)I invite you all to watch the recent Horozon programme on ecigarettes by Michael Mosley which should more than set your minds at rest particularly on second hand Vapor.

Its findings are encouraging and should comfort those with concerns ( which I must say in the nicest possible way are usually based in a lack of true knowledge)

I can assure you there are no metals, heavy or otherwise in Ecig Vapor. There was an issue a while back caused by some poor quality ejuice makers using diactyl in their juices but that's no longer an issue as its use has been rightly hounded out of the market.

Having said that, none of that makes it ok to ask non vapers to smell your cloud in a non vaping dedicated environment. It's just not cricket.

As I hope a better analogy than some used above, consider joss sticks. They aren't smoking, they aren't illegal and there's no sign I see in any establishment I've been to that says you can't use them. Hands up who thinks it would be OK to have one on the go at your table at your local cafe?


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Scientific research

http://universityofcalifornia.edu/news/e-cigarette-vapors-could-be-toxic-oral-cavity-ucla-study-finds


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Or the complete peer reviewed article

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0154447

Talk down to me. It makes me feel all safe and warm.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Decent quality juices made by reputable manufacturers don't have metals.

One major reason I quit smoking and moved to vaping was gum disease. I couldn't shift it when I smoked. I've now vaped for over two years and the gum disease is a thing of the past.

I wasn't intending to talk down to anyone at all, in fact I was mostly agreeing with you. Brush the chip off your shoulder.

I think you wer 100% right to challenge that guy and the response you got was quite daft.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

It was the bit about true knowledge that rub me up a bit. Apologies for being prickly.

Actually the study there isn't about heavy metals it found that exposure to e-liquids produced some pre-cancerous changes in cell cultures from mouths. Its early but we didn't know that cigarettes caused cancer for decades either. Because the e-cig don't have the potential to cause cancer in the same manner as cigarettes doesn't mean they won't in their own way. The fact that Big Tabacco is moving into the space is something which I find creepy and disquieting.

That all said, given what we know right now they seem to be a good harm reduction strategy and I'm glad that they are improving people's health. I just won't accept they are harmless as I don't think we know enough to state that.

I like the joss stick analogy. I think that sums it up best. I may start carrying some with me


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

If you Watch the Horizon programme you'll not fear the dangers of second hand Vapor

Even I don't believe they can be 100% harmless. Ultimately the Vaper is taking down something foreign into their lungs.

However it's my view that it's no more harmful and probably less so than walking around a city centre with all the fumes and pollutants that involves.

What is true is that they are at least 95% less harmful than tobacco leaf combustion and inhaling


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Dallah said:


> In my book the feet smell less than vape clouds


Not my feet.



filthynines said:


> This is why you can drink coffee, read, and politely chat; but you can't urinate on the tables.


Can't you say?

Ah. Awkward.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Jon said:


> Can't you say?
> 
> Ah. Awkward.


Funny, I only ever go into Starbucks if I need a wee. Next time I make such a visit, if the loo is engaged...........


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

CamV6 said:


> Funny, I only ever go into Starbucks if I need a wee. Next time I make such a visit, if the logo is engaged...........


Just ask for a cup. I think their tea is wee based.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

CamV6 said:


> If you Watch the Horizon programme you'll not fear the dangers of second hand Vapor
> 
> Even I don't believe they can be 100% harmless. Ultimately the Vaper is taking down something foreign into their lungs.
> 
> ...


Re the facts on Horizon, I've not watched it and I'm unlikely to. That doesn't mean you are wrong or I am saying you are wrong. I say that because of the shockingly bad state of science journalism particularly health related. I work for an extremely large health insurer. In my role I get a daily digest of the day's previous news reporting of health science. It comes with an analysis done by independent scientists at a research firm (Bazian). The amount of error in reporting the results of studies is terrifying. Often the news stories aren't just skewed but misrepresented by 180 degrees. This is not just the red tops but all UK news outlets including Aunty Beeb.

We get this due to the fact that policy holders read of a new "cure" for their condition and phone up demanding the cure and expect results. We then have to manage their expectations and educate them in the realities. Not fun for the staff on the phone.

So for myself, if I am interested in a topic I do my level best to go back to original peer reviewed papers and do my best to understand those which if they are well written is well within the capabilities of a well educated person.

Don't get me started on how poorly most journaled articles are ;-)


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