# Bezzera BZ10 or Lelit Mara X?



## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

My foray into the world of espresso was cut short after issues with my single boiler machine meant it had to be returned. I'm considering replacing it with a Bezzera BZ10 in the hope of a simpler workflow, better reliability and ease of maintenance. The alternative being a Lelit Mara X. I would be grateful for any thoughts. It would a big increase in investment for us! Meanwhile our new Eureka Mignon grinder sits unused&#8230;


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> My foray into the world of espresso was cut short after issues with my single boiler machine meant it had to be returned. I'm considering replacing it with a Bezzera BZ10 in the hope of a simpler workflow, better reliability and ease of maintenance. The alternative being a Lelit Mara X. I would be grateful for any thoughts. It would a big increase in investment for us! Meanwhile our new Eureka Mignon grinder sits unused&#8230;


 The BZ10 heats the group electrically, but, ultimately, it's a dumb HX machine. The MaraX is also an HX machine, but it has some clever ways of regulating the brew temperature. Never owned either, but I some seem to like the BZ10 overall - think I read something on Home Barista.

I'm assuming you know how a Heat Exchanger machine works. If you don't, I recommend you familiarise yourself and understand cooling flushes, etc.

The BZ10 was in my shortlist about 8 years ago. I ended up at a very different path!

MaraX review: https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/03/10/lelit-marax-review-in-progress/

BZ10: https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/domestic-coffee-machines/products/bezzera-bz10

Retailer review: https://www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/reviews/bezzera-bz10-espresso-machine-review

welcome to the forum!


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Both have their pros and cons.

The BZ10 is super quick to heat up, the build quality is excellent, they are strong steamers, they need very little maintenance due to the BZ group and imo I think they are a very attractive machine, particularly with a wood kit. As pointed out above they are a more traditional design but that could be regarded as a pro or con depending on how you see things.

The Mara X is certainty a more modern aesthetic and has the benefit of not having to flush the group when it has been stood idle however I would say that you should make sure to fully understand exactly how the machine is designed to be used and consider if it suits how you intend to use it. There have been some users left flummoxed by the machine (particularly the steam performance) which I think is down to not fully getting to grips with how the programming of the machine works. You have to understand and work with the algorithm of the machine and not against it or you will likely run in to problems.

Both are excellent machine and would serve you well I am sure.

David


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The BZ10 heats the group electrically, but, ultimately, it's a dumb HX machine. The MaraX is also an HX machine, but it has some clever ways of regulating the brew temperature. Never owned either, but I some seem to like the BZ10 overall - think I read something on Home Barista.
> 
> I'm assuming you know how a Heat Exchanger machine works. If you don't, I recommend you familiarise yourself and understand cooling flushes, etc.
> 
> ...


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Many thanks for these responses - much appreciated. I have done some research using some of the links mentioned. Living in West Berkshire I'm some distance from the retailers of both the Bezerra and the Mara, but maybe an essential first step is to make the 5-6 hour round trip to see them in the flesh this time... or I could easily be joining the ranks of the flummoxed...


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> Many thanks for these responses - much appreciated. I have done some research using some of the links mentioned. Living in West Berkshire I'm some distance from the retailers of both the Bezerra and the Mara, but maybe an essential first step is to make the 5-6 hour round trip to see them in the flesh this time... or I could easily be joining the ranks of the flummoxed...


 Ha! I also live in West Berks, in Thatcham! Where abouts do you live?


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Upper Basildon! Another 'Small World' Story! In a short while I'd made some progress with dosing and frothing but the machine operation seemed temperamental (maybe it was me). I really just want a high-quality machine that is easy and reliable to operate so I can concentrate on experimenting with different coffees. A bit sad perhaps but I just didn't find that especially true of the single boiler machine.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> Upper Basildon! Another 'Small World' Story! In a short while I'd made some progress with dosing and frothing but the machine operation seemed temperamental (maybe it was me). I really just want a high-quality machine that is easy and reliable to operate so I can concentrate on experimenting with different coffees. A bit sad perhaps but I just didn't find that especially true of the single boiler machine.


 Small world indeed! I'm sure either of those machines will be great for you. I have an Elizabeth, which an entry level dual boiler machine, and I'm very happy with it. Slightly more expensive than the ones you are after, however.

So, if you were to go blindly, would you go for MaraX or BZ10? Which one do you see yourself using it based on what you've seen so far (I know it's a lot to take on!)


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

I am really undecided. I like the brewing and steaming controls on the BZ10 and the casing is, as far as I am aware, all polished stainless as opposed to a mixture on the Mara, but Dave Corbey gives a very good account of the latter. I was rather put on my guard by David's comments about it though. I may well take a trip up to Bella Barista (no BZ10 in stock in the UK it seems) but there is always the risk that my wife won't like it and we finish up with a Nespresso and a new sofa....


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> I am really undecided. I like the brewing and steaming controls on the BZ10 and the casing is, as far as I am aware, all polished stainless as opposed to a mixture on the Mara, but Dave Corbey gives a very good account of the latter. I was rather put on my guard by David's comments about it though. I may well take a trip up to Bella Barista (no BZ10 in stock in the UK it seems) but there is always the risk that my wife won't like it and we finish up with a Nespresso and a new sofa....


 A trip to BB is a very wise thing to do. It's a real benefit to see the machine in the flesh. You get a total different perception compared to online.

Good luck in your quest.

just reading around the BZ10 and it requires cooling flushes. Very typical of HX machines. The MaraX has some intelligence that tries to resolve that for you by beans of varying the temperature of the boiler to keep the group head temp at bay. So you have to understand the algorithm and not go against it (as per Dave's review).

for me, cooling flushes are no no. I can't bear to see water going down the drain if a I had distilled it!

MaraX also not a great idea as it diverts water from the expansion valve to the drip tray. However, a single mod can resolve this issue quite elegantly.


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Thanks again for some very helpful insights and for taking the time to have a look at the BZ10 operation.

I once worked for a company based in New Orleans where one of the staff had a plaque on his desk that read 'confidence - the feeling you have before you really understand the situation'. That's how I'm starting to feel about espresso making!

To be honest a quick cooling flush in itself wouldn't bother me - I'll be using Volvic or Waitrose bottled water.

Presumably before making your purchases you too made the effort to see them in the flesh?

I doubt that I'll get into some of the finer aspects of brewing but I will certainly consider your pointers carefully and try to understand the implications for being able to produce my wife's daily capuccino and my Americano.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> To be honest a quick cooling flush in itself wouldn't bother me - I'll be using Volvic or Waitrose bottled water.


 That's exactly what I said when I bought my HX machine... A Rocket Celini Evo, back in 2015. When you are running on bottled water, seeing 150ml of bottled water down the drain really upset me. I've since been running dual boilers (also had a La Pavoni) and I'v been very happy with.



T41 said:


> Presumably before making your purchases you too made the effort to see them in the flesh?


 I would if you can. It's a big investment. And don't strictly accept/believe what the retailer, or even what I say as gospel. What is right for me might not be right for you, as they say, IMMV. Take those as input, understand, research and then make your own decision with everything weighted and taken into account.


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Incidentally, I managed to locate the Home Barista review you kindly mentioned; it states 'the MaraX, which is pretty much the espresso machine you thought you would get before you know anything about espresso machines - no contortions, no settings, but the variables are controlled. There is actually a hidden switch for setting temperature, but mostly this machine controls itself and makes good shots with an absolute minimum of fuss.....'

mmmm....


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

T41 said:


> (no BZ10 in stock in the UK it seems)


 Will be in 3 weeks or so 😁

They do indeed need a cooling flush but they have some advantages over the competition too.

David


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> Incidentally, I managed to locate the Home Barista review you kindly mentioned; it states 'the MaraX, which is pretty much the espresso machine you thought you would get before you know anything about espresso machines - no contortions, no settings, but the variables are controlled. There is actually a hidden switch for setting temperature, but mostly this machine controls itself and makes good shots with an absolute minimum of fuss.....'
> 
> mmmm....


 https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2020/03/10/lelit-marax-review-in-progress/

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/48398-mara-x/?do=embed#comments


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Dear Medium Roast Steam,

I duly went to Bella Barista, accompanied by my wife. I was speechless when she asked if we were considering the ECM Mechanika Slim which she like the look of and the impression of quality...(although I see only the Mara has a stainless chassis).

I don't know if the extra cost buys a more reliable/stable machine - there seems to be a lot of posts on the forum questioning whether the Mara is working correctly and almost nothing on ECM issues (maybe due to not so many sold because of the higher price).

Incidentally, whilst I appreciate Bella Barista are there to sell they could not have been more welcoming or helpful.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@T41 - did you get the Mechanika? I'm sure it's a great machine, although a traditional HX.


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

I would have bought the Mara but for the number of posts on this site with users seeming to struggle. I'm just not sufficiently knowledgeable to understand the implications of their concerns. Still debating I will buy - something - soon!

Very hot in Upper Basildon!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> Very hot in Upper Basildon!


 You wait until you get an HX machine... All that steam!!!!!! 🤣🙃


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

I may open a new post topic for the ECM. Was reading the experiences of people with Mara (and Bianca?) getting particles in their hot water and returning machines.

There must be one that operates without issues and allows users just to get on with the brewing and coffee enjoyment!


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## Bicky (Oct 24, 2019)

Remember that there are plenty of Mara (and Bianca) owners out there who have had no issues and are perfectly happy with their machines. As with all things, it might seem that negative experiences are in the majority, but that's likely because people who are happy with their machines are less likely to be posting about it, we're just enjoying making espresso (or thinking about other things to improve our coffee game) 😉


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

T41 said:


> There must be one that operates without issues


 There are issues reported with ECM machines if you look too. Faulty joystick valves, faulty temp sensors. I had a Pro-700 and 12 months later it needed a brand new Gicar box. In contrast, the Elizabeth has been Rock solid so far (Don't tell me I've jinx it!!!! 🤣 - So, the point I'm making here is that they are both great machines for sure, and they both can have problems, sometimes not even fault of their own, but maybe a faulty batch of a specific component.

I'd say that, the best decision if for you to buy something you really want. You really don't want to buy something that you don't like the look of or based on someone's opinion. After all, it's a big purchase, and the most important thing is that *you* are happy with it.

Take the advice given home with you. Read, research, dwell on it. And then decide on what *you* think it's the right thing for *you* and your family.

Enjoy!


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## T41 (Jun 9, 2021)

Thank you both. All fair comments. I suppose having had to return my first (single boiler) purchase after 3 weeks I'm trying to do better at the second (and final, I'm told...) attempt...

There are no 'JD Power' satisfaction/reliability surveys to help make an informed decision which of course is where the experience of people like yourselves who have been in the game for a while is invaluable.


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## forsh (Nov 11, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's exactly what I said when I bought my HX machine... A Rocket Celini Evo, back in 2015. When you are running on bottled water, seeing 150ml of bottled water down the drain really upset me. I've since been running dual boilers (also had a La Pavoni) and I'v been very happy with.
> 
> 
> 
> I would if you can. It's a big investment. And don't strictly accept/believe what the retailer, or even what I say as gospel. What is right for me might not be right for you, as they say, IMMV. Take those as input, understand, research and then make your own decision with everything weighted and taken into account.


Just reading through this thread as I'm in the market for an upgrade (currently running a Gaggia Classic). I like the look of the BZ10, particularly for the heat up times.
On the flushing issue, is there a reason you couldn't just pour the water back into the tank?

I don't think this will be an issue with me anyway as I don't use bottled water, lucky to have really good tap water at home which I can just filter.

To the OP, how did you get on in the end?


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## jdenver (Jun 27, 2017)

Would ove to know the out come of this thread. Did @T41 and @forsh get their machines?, which one's did they go for?

Im currently looking at th Bezzar BZ10 although not in stock


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jdenver said:


> Would ove to know the out come of this thread. Did @T41 and @forsh get their machines?, which one's did they go for?
> Im currently looking at th Bezzar BZ10 although not in stock


@jdenver I have a bezzera bz09 that I don't use. It's had about 20 shots run on it since new, comes with original box, still got some original protective decals, got a few baskets, normal portafilter and naked if your interested?


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## jdenver (Jun 27, 2017)

Thank you @StevenG91 but I am looking for a HX or dual boiler machine as we like our milk drinks


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## forsh (Nov 11, 2019)

@jdenver I’m still running the Gaggia Classic for the time being. My machine upgrade went on hold in favour of home improvements - following the strenuous insistence of SWMBO.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jdenver said:


> Thank you @StevenG91 but I am looking for a HX or dual boiler machine as we like our milk drinks


No probs 🙂.


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## Alex W (Jan 22, 2021)

Hi all

I currently have an Expobar Leva Office HX which i love but is jut too deep to easily fit into our new kitchen (weirdly it's a Wren kitchen and most of the cupboards on the floor seem to be wall cabinets with only 40cm of worktop!).

I have been reading reviews of both the Bezzera BZ10 and Lelit Mara X as i need to get a smaller profile and these two seem to be the only that suit.

At present, which is quite important to me, i have my espresso machine on a smart plug so i can have it turn on in the morning before i go to make an espresso. Does anyone have the Lelit Mara X and if so, is the on button a push on and remain in for on or is it instead electrical meaning my smart plug wouldnt work with it?

Appreciate minor but i would find it a huge pain to go down (2 flights!) of stairs to turn on a coffee machine when i first wake up...

Thanks in advance


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