# Law of diminishing returns?



## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

Hi everyone

I have a gagga classic and would like to move on from my cheapish hand burr grinder and get something better. Budget is flexible but I'd like to be sensible so spend the least amount to get a half decent grinder, most likely a new one rather than used.

I like the look of and the price of a eureka mignon at about 300 but my question is whether this is a sensible level or would a cheaper model like the iberital for about 150 or a more expensive model say closer to 500 make a big difference?

I am happy to spend what is necessary but am hoping the mignon would be a sensible compromise on cost and quality. What has surprised me on this forum is that several people seem to buy a grinder and then sell and upgrade after a year or less. If that were the case I'd rather get the right model first time.

I'm sure the more expensive grinders are superior, generally you get what you pay for, but where is the price sweet spot that gets good enough quality without spending a fortune? I know this is subjective but I'm interested to hear what people think is a sensible amount to spend.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

I've had a Gaggia Classic and Iberital MC2 for the past seven years and thought that the Iberital was a decent enough machine with the Gaggia.

I've just upgraded both the Gaggia and the Iberital to an Expobar Leva DB & Fiorenzato F4e Nano and the difference in the coffee is just unreal, it's like I've been drinking something else these past few years.

I've looked at second hand grinders (all the usual suspects) but frankly the commercial ones are huge and I mean huge and then you have the problem of finding one and probably changing the burrs which adds about £30 to the cost of the grinder.

Most of those commercial grinders have had a hard life so you have no idea how much they've been used and in a busy coffee shop the staff won't have the time look after them properly, of course you can buy from here on the forum or on e-bay or the like but the popular ones mentioned here are in the £200 to £300 range plus the burr thing.

The F4e is small but much bigger than the Iberital MC2 and it looks fantastic, dead easy to use and adjust, just a fantastic machine and well designed, it even keeps a record of the number of coffees that has been produced in a day, week and the life of the machine, costs new about £360-ish and comes with a twelve month warranty so a pretty attractive proposition, IMO.

The F4e might not be as good as the larger machines but if your only using it in a home environment making maybe six or eight coffees a day, at most, then it's going to be good enough, I think, for most people. I actually think the F4e would be perfectly okay in a small cafe making about 40 to 50 coffees a day.

Best of luck.

Tony


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The Mignon is a decent grinder, better than the MC2 for sure but if you have up to £500 available you could get very decent grinder for that money.

I had a Mignon but sold it after about a year and got a Mazzer Royal. It's very big -
View attachment 11270


- but grind quality was night and day. It opened up so many new flavours.

Somewhere in the middle is the Mazzer Super Jolly, about £250-300 used depending on condition. If you want new for that money you could get the Quamar M80e which is similar to an SJ but with electronic/on demand delivery, there's also the Eureka Zenith 65e but the grind quality maybe isn't quite up to the price from what i've heard.

If you have more budget available you'd be best spending it now, instead of wondering for the next six months what difference the extra £100 or £200 would have made (i.e. quite a lot)


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I can confidently say due to experience that just upgrading to a Mignon will have you wondering if someone has crept into your house and changed the beans to something with a different taste.

Ian


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

I have a mignon paired with a gaggia classic. Great combo, and the mignon is just great to use and looks great. That gets my vote.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

eyedee and np123, have you also tried grinders within the ops upper budget? If so how do they compare to the mignon?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Urbanbumpkin will have done good views for you on this


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## np123 (Dec 15, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> eyedee and np123, have you also tried grinders within the ops upper budget? If so how do they compare to the mignon?


I haven't so couldn't compare. I used ones at the lower end like the mc2 and the mignon was leagues ahead. I would say though that the 150 increase from an mc2 to a mignon was worth it, so spending 500 on a grinder would no doubt be a step up too so if you can afford it, why not. What about a zenith 65E?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I had a mignon for about a month , its a nice sized kitchen friendly grinder , I can see why it is in so many homes ...

It clumped a fair bit and was on the slower size of grind time....

Pros..easy to clean burrs, cuts under cabinet , less noisy than an mc2 , better adjustment mech

Cons - found the dial an adjustment mech little fiddly and not so easy to make recordable adjustments between numbers...

Taste wise - better than a hausgrind for espresso ( small conical burr set ) , but a more muddled taste in the cup especially on medium light single origin roasts than other " better more expensive " grinders I've had ( k30 - mythos , la cimbali magnum )

One would hope that a bigger burred commercial machine ( with better alignment and bur geometry ) would deliver a better taste in the cup .

I think they do ...

It pops up is the x grinder worth twice as much as y grinder and twice as better in the cup ...

Well that simply not a quantifiable equation or an answerable one.

Taste -=preference .

Answer = preference and subjective

£300 extra to someone on a drink is ridiculous

£300 extra on a hobby they love and obsess about isnt

I may think it worth the extra cash spent for the in the cup result ( i am an obsessive tho , a lot on here are ) but i don't know what else you might get more pleasure from spending the £300 on than a coffee grinder.......there are probably lots of things you could use it on ...

This post is of no help at all to your original question sorry , but then anyone that tells you that you will absolutely get a better taste from a more expensive grinder is guessing too. We don't know your level of barista skills and if you can make tasty espresso now







...a new grinder might not be the magic bullet for you ....

Cheers

Edit - most grinders above the mc2 are at least easier to use with a better adjustment mech and there are quieter . Reason enough at least to change


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

Eyedee said:


> I can confidently say due to experience that just upgrading to a Mignon will have you wondering if someone has crept into your house and changed the beans to something with a different taste.
> 
> Ian


Have to agree with this although I have no experience of the Mignon undoubtedly a better grinder will transform the coffee, that is certainly my experience, in fact I would go as far as to say that the grinder, based on my own experience, is more important than the coffee machine for producing a good coffee.

I used to read statements like mine above and thought that it was complete hyperbole but it's not.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

twotone said:


> Have to agree with this although I have no experience of the Mignon undoubtedly a better grinder will transform the coffee, that is certainly my experience, in fact I would go as far as to say that the grinder, based on my own experience, is more important than the coffee machine for producing a good coffee.
> 
> I used to read statements like mine above and thought that it was complete hyperbole but it's not.


Wait till you try some decent coffee


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Wait till you try some decent coffee


Oh I have tried decent coffee plenty of times, just not in my set up recently


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Getting back to what the op actually asked. as a general rule of thumb, on grinders, a cheap grinder will suffice, but you may well wish you had spent more pretty quickly. There are many MC2 owners on the forum, but I guess if you asked them if they had a spare £x00 would they upgrade? A Mignon will never devalue below the price of an MC2 if you look after it. A Mignon is around £300. If you stretched that to £500 would you get more choice new? A little. If you kept an eye out for second hand on the forum, buying from a person on here with a history, you will open yourself up to an even wider market. Again, the general rule of thumb is the bigger the burr, the potentially better result in the cup


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, it is really interesting to hear what you all think. I've justified spending 300 on a grinder to myself and so the mignon is the most likely and semi - 'sensible' choice. I suppose now I am fretting over whether I should spend a chunk more while I'm at it...

From what I'm hearing though the mignon is a good grinder and won't disappoint, everythign else is perhaps icing on the cake?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It won't disappoint but I think in six months time you'll be wondering what if


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

The mignon is well liked but seems to me to be a stepping stone or gateway grinder.

I echo what dfk41 says. Look at burr size. Generally the bigger the better in the cup


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

for around £300 - £400 you could get a really good used grinder


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Btw it's not true 2nd hand will always likely need new burrs. I might well be moving on my Mazzer major soon which has recent titanium burrs that will be sharp and true practically for ever in a domestic setting so someone will get a great top end grinder with excellent burrs. My example isn't the exception by any means


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I bought the Sage smart grinder, if appears not to be favoured too much on the forum but I can't fault it. Lovely small footprint, plenty of grind levels and so far has been extremely consistant. I have been playing with it and my outputs have all been between 0.1 and 0.2g no matter what grind setting. I think it looks nice too.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> Btw it's not true 2nd hand will always likely need new burrs. I might well be moving on my Mazzer major soon which has recent titanium burrs that will be sharp and true practically for ever in a domestic setting so someone will get a great top end grinder with excellent burrs. My example isn't the exception by any means


What are you thinking about going for?


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm hopefully getting a Compak K10 PB


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

mremanxx said:


> I bought the Sage smart grinder, if appears not to be favoured too much on the forum but I can't fault it. Lovely small footprint, plenty of grind levels and so far has been extremely consistant. I have been playing with it and my outputs have all been between 0.1 and 0.2g no matter what grind setting. I think it looks nice too.


it wont do a much better job than what he has


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## Hindsight (Jan 7, 2015)

Quick update: I've just ordered a Mignon from BB. BB were really helpful and although I might have been able to get a higher quality second hand grinder I decided to play safe and go down the new route. I think this is a sensible start and I got the impression that the Mignon would be 'good enough' and a higher-end grinder might have been lost on my still basic prep skills and, to a lesser degree, the Gaggia Classic. I think the smallish footprint of the Mignon might also help avoid matrimonial unrest - some of the more expensive options are HUGE.

I'm looking forward to the Mignon arriving and experimenting with the grind settings, trying some new beans and no more hand grinding!


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mignon not a bad choice at all. Enjoy!


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