# E5 T - 1 and counting



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

I have joined this party, my E5 is due tomorrow.

Have wanted an OD machine for a while and BB could not speak highly enough of the machine. Give my height restrictions and want for an upgrade the trusty Mignon is off to a new home ( I hope ) or will become the Decaf grinder and the mis adventure with the Mazzer will be forgotten!

Cant wait, mis remember to read the instructions first before I plough in like the usually impatient bloke ( read Child ) that I am.

Will update further...


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Great grinder they look pretty good. Mine is in the for sale as well.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Jony, are you selling an E5.

Ok first obs':

Great looking ( though effect over appearance more important )

feels very robust

tricky is to set up, and I question the accuracy of the output figs, I have now got 18.5gs in 5.5 secs and a 21g in 6.2 secs

Tested the selected grind with 21g in the blind basket and managed to collect all the output in a shot measuring glass. V Happy with that.

Very nice that BB set a bag of QC failed beans for me to run though ( kitchen smells amazing ). BB where amazing in their service, as ever.

Need to train my dearest, otherwise we will have a Coffeegate scandal and issue, user issues in my house are defined as problems belonging to another person, ( usually me )

Fits brilliantly under the counter.

Lots of heat generated first noted, maybe the unusually high output and new burrs?

Clumpy to start with but maybe was too tight?

Excellent so far.

Looks great and so far is grinding well for a decent extraction


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

will be interesting to hear more on this, I went to BB yesterday and brought one home







love it so far, but yes its a bit clumpy and still trying to dial it in.


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Don't worry about clumps just yet. If you are still dialling it in, it may be finer than you want and most OD grinders will clump to one extent or another when grinding very fine. Also, it will probably improve as the burrs get seasoned. Plus you can always grind into a little pot, or just do WDT with a cork with pins in, or a mini whisk (or even the smart Londinium whisk if Heath Robinson isn't your cup of, er, coffee)


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

hotmetal said:


> Don't worry about clumps just yet. If you are still dialling it in, it may be finer than you want and most OD grinders will clump to one extent or another when grinding very fine. Also, it will probably improve as the burrs get seasoned. Plus you can always grind into a little pot, or just do WDT with a cork with pins in, or a mini whisk (or even the smart Londinium whisk if Heath Robinson isn't your cup of, er, coffee)


I currently use a corn cob skewer but will be upgrading to a chopped up mini whisk







^^ the Londinium whisk, you gotta love the sales people's eyes light up when people pay £30 for an off cut with 3 prongs







I also haz pot, and funnel









Im throwing out a helluva lot of decent coffee trying to get this thing happy, i guess it doesn't help buying a couple of shot glasses and giving myself more confusion









UPDATE: had a wakeup clumping thought, gonna shift from 15g VST > 18g VST so the grind is a tad coarser, should lower clumpiness.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Hi Guys thanks for those thoughts.

Im not that fine on the grind I didn't think, and have in fact backed it off. I was hoping I could dispense with my old cocktail stick! We will see how it develops. Did BB not give you a bag of rejected beans to help set it up?

I am using a 18g basket and a 22g.

Once I get some of my Italian Manaressi Gold ( quite dark and oily ) I suspect that may be another equation, and will end up back off quite a bit. Still on a fairly med roast Colombian just now.

Having said all that very happy with the flavour improvement over previous grinders and I have poured a naked shot without spraying the whole machine ( an acid test of grind consistency I understand ) so now a happy boy drinking some improved coffee and in a much cleaner environment than with the previous incumbent.

Cheers


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> Hi Guys thanks for those thoughts.
> 
> Im not that fine on the grind I didn't think, and have in fact backed it off. I was hoping I could dispense with my old cocktail stick! We will see how it develops. Did BB not give you a bag of rejected beans to help set it up?
> 
> ...


Indeed BB gave me a kilo which went through it straight away, being new at dialing in and trying to get some consistency is taking me a while, I put this down to having bugger all experience. i decided to ditch the 18g basket and revert to the 15 as it made no difference on the clumping, i just presume it will take a bit of time and settle down as I tried the E5 at BB and that was not clumping and produced great shots.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Our combined experiences so far added to your observation suggests as you say, patience and time to allow it to season and settle in.

I still remain impressed by the machine


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

The most important thing for me is that mrs craig now thinks its easier to make coffee...and it looks pretty


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

We appear to be sailing a similar ship, I am now under pressure to "move on" the pre loved and owned items, not helped by certain people selling similar ( enhanced items ) at the same time!


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> We appear to be sailing a similar ship, I am now under pressure to "move on" the pre loved and owned items, not helped by certain people selling similar ( enhanced items ) at the same time!


no no, my dear boy you are on that ship alone, my beloved mazzer has a new home now


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Hoping the decks are now cleared of other SJ's and that I have illustrated my desire to move on, a suitable offer will follow, sometime soon.

I might well keep the Mignon, however with the ease of grinding with the E5, and the small loads and retention, flipping some Decaf in for a few cups would not present a problem i don't force ( so long as it doesn't take 1kg to re dial!! )

Have fun with the new toy, I will share any observations re clumping as they develop or improve, Cheers.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

i noticed this morning that the timed dose which gave 15g last night gave 13g this morning :/ i presume it was due to temperature as the kitchen was cold but i didnt realise it has such a big effect.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

So I've just changed beans and my grind timings have just gone out of the window. I've gone a lot tighter and longer in order to get my 18g's and to get a 36g extraction over 30 seconds. At this rate my coffee consumption is going to go through the roof, I think I'll stick to a known blend as I can't go using ha;f the small bag dialling the bloody thing in, however i suspect with more use it will get easier.

I must say the only adjust when grinding instruction is much easier said than actually done!


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> I must say the only adjust when grinding instruction is much easier said than actually done!


I put through 1kg of BB old beans, then around 500g-750g good beans trying to nail the grind. I put a lot down to me being an idiot though


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

jerbla said:


> I must say the only adjust when grinding instruction is much easier said than actually done!


Hahaha! Yes it sounds so simple doesn't it, until you try it! Remember this is only for going finer - to avoid trapping coffee between burrs when not running - no harm in going coarser while off. After cleaning or when mine is empty, if I think I'm going to need to go tighter I slightly overdo it beforehand, knowing that I'll then be going a tad coarser to dial in. It helps if you keep a log of your settings for each bean. Sounds nerdy (well it is!) but it does at least allow you to build up a picture of what beans need what grind, and can save you a bit of coffee by getting you in the ballpark before you've even filled the hopper. Remember you need to purge a little between adjustment, otherwise you can get caught in a back and forth pendulum effect and end up wasting more.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

Notebook is definitely the way forward, the espresso grind is a pretty tight window. think im gonna have to put on a marker to line up the grind setting as its a bit half assed


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

I get stuck between the need and desire to get on with making my coffee and being precise about it. I am using an Indian coffee today which is ( I think ) Peaberry and very small compared to the previous Columbian, even then I think i was over extracting in my 30 second window however, so I needed to tighten up. Happy after 4 attempts that I am getting the 1:2 ratio in 27 secs.

my Dearest commented on how much coffee I have accrued of late, list;e does she realise consumption has doubled since the new toy has arrived.

Clumps are definitely receding, and we are getting fluffier grounds now.

Just the simple matter now of finding a new home for my Mignon and SJ.

Live and learn....


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

do you think less clumps because you have dialed it coarser? or just bedding in the burrs?


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

craigsalisbury said:


> do you think less clumps because you have dialed it coarser? or just bedding in the burrs?


Unsure, I have gone finer, as such I suspect the latter, but early days and still learning.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

very sensitive to bean change. Today even with 1 sec less ( 18g ) and coarser setting I nearly choked the machine.

Never realised what a big difference bean type could have, all part of the learning experience. Hoping my Barista foundation course in Feb will guide me to better practices and more precise repeatable coffees.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

So far this morning I ran out so loaded up the Gesha I got from L&S, didnt even manage to get a decent shot before it ran out :/

Then loaded a new bean for which i have a lot more and finally getting drinkable coffee, but......


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Gone to an Italian espresso Blend, Manaressi, my Florentine favourite. Much more oily so a great crema on extraction.

Still got clumps, seem less with the oiler beans. Sent a video to BB who liked the extraction, but said in one breath I need to be finer but then commented in the finesse relative to the clumps?

Getting a great extraction on the 22g Bottomless filter, so I guess I should be happy.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

That doesn't make much sense, in theory the oilier the bean, the more it should clump due to the moisture content being higher?

I just use blends now anyway. I dont see much point in single origin, massaged, sang to coffee beans when i have the palette of a cat thats licked cleaned its ar*e. I am currently running fudge by Rave which is yummy and also means i dont need to constantly faff too much dialling in different beans.

Tasting notes : tastes like coffee


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

craigsalisbury said:


> That doesn't make much sense, in theory the oilier the bean, the more it should clump due to the moisture content being higher?
> 
> I just use blends now anyway. I dont see much point in single origin, massaged, sang to coffee beans when i have the palette of a cat thats licked cleaned its ar*e. I am currently running fudge by Rave which is yummy and also means i dont need to constantly faff too much dialling in different beans.
> 
> Tasting notes : tastes like coffee


I think the clumps are usually static related.

Certainly on the mignon they tend to fall apart with the slightest poke.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> I think the clumps are usually static related.
> 
> Certainly on the mignon they tend to fall apart with the slightest poke.


yup, although to be fair its probably a cocktail of things including oils, temp, humidity, static etc. etc. That being said, the E5 at bella produced zero clumps.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

craigsalisbury said:


> yup, although to be fair its probably a cocktail of things including oils, temp, humidity, static etc. etc. That being said, the E5 at bella produced zero clumps.


It is your final point that is challenging me too.

I've had and done the Mignon static clumping as was hoping this upgrade would put and end to the use of and need to employ the cocktail stick!

Reference earlier point, yes you would think a darker oiler bean would be worse, maybe less static as ashcroc said.

Awaiting further reply from BB on this, as this is not exactly performing how I expected or how you @craigsalisbury saw it.

I share a similar taste ability/ sensitivity!! Had to laugh at your tasting notes!


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> It is your final point that is challenging me too.
> 
> I've had and done the Mignon static clumping as was hoping this upgrade would put and end to the use of and need to employ the cocktail stick!
> 
> ...


I was also living the dream when i saw it in action at BB, my reality is probably not far from yours, i stil whack a funnel on and give it all a stir which i hoped i wouldnt have to do, but it IS better than when i first got it. I dont kow what BB's magic is, maybe they will tell you.

I was reluctant to post this as it may offend, but i just found coffee and wine/alcohol to be similar. my coffee expertise goes from 'tastes like ass' to 'this is yummy'






Enjoy


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Split a shot today and had less milk, Cappuccino cup, tasted brilliant!

Thats a funny ad!


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> Split a shot today and had less milk, Cappuccino cup, tasted brilliant!
> 
> Thats a funny ad!


indeed, on the weekends i split an 18g basket for a morning Cappuccino for me and the missus, nothing too heavy or intense. cant believe how small cappuccino cups are, i was disappointed when i got mine being only 180 or so ml, so i got some 280ml latte cups coming


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Just dropping your name into a communication with BB re the clumping will share any further feedback here...


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> Just dropping your name into a communication with BB re the clumping will share any further feedback here...


happy to be name dropped, im not a celebrity though


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

So today switched beans and my settings have once again shifted massively, has had to go much coarser and reduce the time over 20%.

Timings and settings all over the place does add to the bean usage and wastage, had two choked pucks in the testing!

However....grinds looking fluffier and less clumpy, maybe we are getting somewhere. Visibly they don't look coarser. Maybe I has the grinder just too tight and fine.

Loving this grinder but its sure a delicate and particular beast when it comes to dialling it in.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> So today switched beans and my settings have once again shifted massively, has had to go much coarser and reduce the time over 20%.
> 
> Timings and settings all over the place does add to the bean usage and wastage, had two choked pucks in the testing!
> 
> ...


I have started taking photos and writing settings for each different bean I use, it makes it much faster. Definitely as the bean ages it has to go finer which i put down to gas/moisture. Luckily after trying a few single origin fancy shmancy beans for espresso, im not really a fan so I stick to a couple of blends by rave which i love as milk drinks so i think im pretty set.

More importantly i now dial in pretty quickly and with setting the Sage DB using volume, mrscraig now uses it all to make the morning jumpstart so its all good.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can I chip in here. I found it an absolute doodle to set up and dial in. I suspect that part of this is because at the moment (and quite often) I drink only one bean, which at the moment is CC Mystery 8. Now, by doing this it allows me to learn. if you change the bean, you are changing one of the main varietals which dictates the quality of the shot, so, without having mastered one you are moving on to another, which makes no sense at all. Coupled to this is the fact that burrs take a lot longer to settle down that people think, which again gives non repeatability. I do not worry about button 2. If it is set to 5 seconds and falls short button one is set to 0.5 seconds. if it is too much I take some out, thus keeping the constant. The ambient temp will cause differences in output and it gets worse in summer if like mine, your coffee room is in the sun all day.

So, to sum up, stop buying loads of different beans!


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Thanks @dfk41 I will heed that advice and keep at it. Never suffered at the hands of my Mignon to the same extent however.

My inexperience and impatience is shinning through!

Cheers


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Can I chip in here. I found it an absolute doodle to set up and dial in. I suspect that part of this is because at the moment (and quite often) I drink only one bean, which at the moment is CC Mystery 8. Now, by doing this it allows me to learn. if you change the bean, you are changing one of the main varietals which dictates the quality of the shot, so, without having mastered one you are moving on to another, which makes no sense at all. Coupled to this is the fact that burrs take a lot longer to settle down that people think, which again gives non repeatability. I do not worry about button 2. If it is set to 5 seconds and falls short button one is set to 0.5 seconds. if it is too much I take some out, thus keeping the constant. The ambient temp will cause differences in output and it gets worse in summer if like mine, your coffee room is in the sun all day.
> 
> So, to sum up, stop buying loads of different beans!


I always listen to the voice of experience







I have only bean doing this for about a month so still finding what I really like, I have kinda settled on fudge and the italian job by rave, oh oh see what i did here ^^^









I only use button 1, button 3 is set to 2 seconds for purge. If 1 falls short i just tap the grind button and it normally fills in the gap.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

On clumping.....mine did a little but that was burrs not yet settled and me going too tight .....remember, if you do not want to grind so fine stick an extra 0.5 gms in the basket and play with tamping.

Too much time is spent in pursuit of the god shot.....it does not exist! But, I grant some are better than others.....for me, there are two sorts of shot, ones you drink and ones you sink


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

i only sink sour shots







i dose 18g and use an eazytamp for consistency in the VST. I might play with 18.5 but im pretty ok with where i am.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> On clumping.....mine did a little but that was burrs not yet settled and me going too tight .....remember, if you do not want to grind so fine stick an extra 0.5 gms in the basket and play with tamping.
> 
> Too much time is spent in pursuit of the god shot.....it does not exist! But, I grant some are better than others.....for me, there are two sorts of shot, ones you drink and ones you sink


Wise word, I agree re time too, I want to enjoy drinking my coffee not spend all day weighing and pi$$ing about in search of the every diminishing return. The bean advice sits well with that thought.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Significant steps forward in grind in the last few days, less clumping, less static. So once there is less messing about on my part I am fairly certain I will be well set and well on the road to recovery after my recent bout of "Upgradeitus".


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

jerbla said:


> Significant steps forward in grind in the last few days, less clumping, less static. So once there is less messing about on my part I am fairly certain I will be well set and well on the road to recovery after my recent bout of "Upgradeitus".


yeah you do have a LOT of very fancy equipment lol

so did you increase dose and coarsen the grind ? or its just settling in more ?


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

I think settling in to be honest, getting through a Kilo of Italian supermarket beans ( Manaressi ), which I hope will get things set nicely before I revert to the subtlety and sophisticated of a more cared for product.

Should be noted not all the gear is in one location...


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

still not clump free......


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

mine is not clump free either, but would I expect it to be? It still has small burrs at 58mm though they are very aggressive. I do not care. it takes 5 seconds for 18 to 19 gms. I stick a @Norvin aluminium ring on, stir with a small form for 5 seconds, knock the pf downwards once to settle the grind, remove the ring and if need be, smooth the grind with the fork, all in the time a Mignon would take to grind 18 gms and be really clumpy!


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> mine is not clump free either, but would I expect it to be? It still has small burrs at 58mm though they are very aggressive. I do not care. it takes 5 seconds for 18 to 19 gms. I stick a @Norvin aluminium ring on, stir with a small form for 5 seconds, knock the pf downwards once to settle the grind, remove the ring and if need be, smooth the grind with the fork, all in the time a Mignon would take to grind 18 gms and be really clumpy!


^^^ i do this also. i dont have a problem with it at all, its a great grinder. interestingly though the one i saw in action at BB was completely clump free which i put down to mybe something like stable temp/humidity whereas my kitchen is cold in the morning and humidity is all over the place.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

yes posting really as an update as per @craigsalisbury seeing and words from BB I was expecting clumpless action after all was settled.

I use the cocktail stick method but may use my @Norvin add on and stir a little more aggressively through that.

Happy with the outcomes which is the key thing, managing not to splatter the kitchen when I make a bottomless extraction, so it must be doing its work OK.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

might have to give BB a ring and ask their secret


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

Tried that and replies dried up. If I dial out I loose the clumps but then end up too coarse and over extracting the shot.

Cocktail stick it os for now, I'll pester BB next time I drop by.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

craigsalisbury said:


> might have to give BB a ring and ask their secret


Use!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

These won't settle down till around 10kgs of coffee have gone through them, contact a roaster get a load of stakes and bang em through the grinder, that should settle the grinder down better


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> These won't settle down till around 10kgs of coffee have gone through them, contact a roaster get a load of stakes and bang em through the grinder, that should settle the grinder down better


damn fine idea, thank you sir.


----------



## PeterK (Feb 6, 2018)

I have now upgraded to the E5 from my Eureka Mignon which is up for sale.

Very happy with the E5. Easily dialled in and excellent fluffy grind with minimal clumping.

Thanks to forum members who recommended this grinder in my previous post.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have been chucking any old beans I could find lying around through it and it is definitely settling down. Guess around 7 to 8 kilos through now and getting less clumpy. And I can confirm, the grinder seems to be a delight to use


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

So the E5 is cutting it for you then? slipped under your radar then.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jony said:


> So the E5 is cutting it for you then? slipped under your radar then.


Right under! I was chatting to Claudette about replacing the Mythos with something till the Niche comes in, and I was going to get an Atom. She said that in the showroom for making coffee for staff etc they can use an Atom or an E5......the Atom now has cobwebs. I like Compak having had most of their models but I did not really believe her. It has quite small burrs at 58 mm but boy are they aggressive! I do 18 gms or so in about 5 seconds which we can all afford out of our lives! It seems to be getting better and better as the burrs settle down as well, and they come with a small hopper. It must hold 300 gms or so and for the likes of me that just chuck beans in and top up it makes life easier


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Yep 300 gr hopper small one mine was lost during its fall from grace haha so couldn't really afford the £45 for a new one so bought the bigger one adjustment wise between beans is very little now I have two points which they over 5 and before 10 so 7 &9 and I only think I have put 2k through it so 7 maximum as of now. shame I missed the E8 but more than happy with it.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

Mine has also settled down nicely now, although my only issue (not a grinder issue) is it takes me 6-8 shots to dial in a new bean







im sure it will get there but i think ill just settle on the italian job by rave .


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

@craigsalisbury & @dfk41 how's things going now.


----------



## craigsalisbury (Dec 8, 2017)

Jony said:


> @craigsalisbury & @dfk41 how's things going now.


Love my E5, I have now settled on one bean (as i suck at dialing in) and never change the grind or the time. The output is always within .5g and normally .2 ish which im ok with. Also i have no clumping issues anymore, not that it was really bad....but i like moaning


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

All good then.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

I am running one bean now, but still have some clumping, but sounds like its a use and wearing in thing. great grinder which I am loving, bar the little bit of clumping.


----------



## jerbla (Nov 13, 2017)

I can report mine is now working brilliantly now its settled in, much easier to dial, almost clump free. great grinder.


----------



## maddernj (Jun 12, 2020)

Anyone know where I can get a mini hopper for the e5

kind regards


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Bella Barista last time I looked.


----------

