# Double shot vs. single and triple



## teejay41

I am a complete noob at espresso, having equipped with my first machine only a week or two ago, since when I have avidly studied info. and advice on the 'net.

My inaugural equipment suite comprises: Gaggia New Baby with Silvia wand conversion and standard portafilter, single and double shot non-pressurised filter baskets, an Iberital MC2 grinder, Motta tamper, and a newly acquired, and as yet, untried, bottomless portafilter with 21g triple-shot basket. In addition of course, are stainless frothing jugs, a thermometer and small digital weighing scales etc. The Gaggia and Iberital were bought second-hand, both having been well maintained.

Since I started in espresso coffee making no'but a couple of weeks ago, today for the first time I succeeded in pulling a double shot comprising two timed grinds, each weighing exactly 7g, straight into a portafilter with double-shot basket, tamped and delivered as a weighed 30g of liquid, in an exactly 25secs pull (the time includes the first 6 seconds or so before liquid is seen to emerge from the portafilter). The crema was OK I suppose, but doubtless an expert barista would have found it nothing to write home about. Adding around 150ml of stretched milk with a classic 'wet paint' appearance, prepared a couple of minutes before the pull, made a most palatable latte. (I have a long way to go before attempting latte-art). The puck, looking slightly damp but not visibly wet, fell out of the basket cleanly as one, on first knock. I would add that between frothing the milk and pulling the shot, I cooled down the Gaggia's brew-water by drawing off hot water through the steam wand into the target cup - which also served to warm the cup. Once the steam had gone and straight hot water flowed from the wand, I deemed the machine to be sufficiently cooled and ready for the shot. The coffee beans, by the way, are Cuban Serrano Superior from Rave, roasted eight days ago.

So far, so good.

What perplexes me though, is different size pulls. If the 'target' (double) shot is 14g of ground coffee pulled over 25secs to make 28-30g of liquid, how on earth can a single shot (or a triple, for that matter) meet those same parameters? In the case of a single, only 7g of ground coffee is dispensed (into a 'single' basket) and brewed to make 14-15g of liquid coffee. Is this still supposed to take 25secs to pull, for clearly, it won't, or should the grind-size be altered (I'm disinclined to alter the MC2 grinder from its laboriously fine-tuned burr setting) to bring the pull time back into kilter with the universally accepted recommended 25secs? Similarly, a 21g triple-shot pull is bound to take longer, so would presumably end up with the bitterness of an overly long pull. What really needs to change, as far as I can see, is the brew-water flow rate through the showerhead, but apart from the hassle of adjusting the delivery pressure (with the OPV?) I can see no means of altering that.

Any enlightening wisdom on this subject would be most welcome.

Thanks in anticipation.


----------



## Obnic

Yes. You change the grind to control the time the coffee is in contact with the water.

don't follow the 7g single / 14g double espresso definition too slavishly. It's an Italian specification but you may get a better in cup experience with a little less ground a little finer (can reduce sourness and increase richer flavours) or a little more ground coarser (can smooth bitterness and favour sweetness). Experiment.

Think most people favour doubles in the 14-18g range because they tend to be a little easier to control than singles.

Triples - this is a fast way to get through coffee. It's a US thing. I confess I've never felt the need to pursue this size of dose despite owning a 21g VST basket. I mostly pull doubles and occasionally pull singles because they reveal distribution issues mercilessly.


----------



## teejay41

Many thanks, Obnic, for your prompt and most informative reply. I'll stick to double shots I think, for I am loth to adjust the grinder too far from its workable setting. I'll certainly play about with slightly altered dose-sizes though.


----------



## NJD1977

If you look at the base of a single basket vs a double basket vs a triple basket (see image below), you will see that there is a smaller diameter of perforated section at the base of the single basket caused by a more tapered basket at the base. Likewise there is a greater perforated area at the base of the triple basket. So in theory, the single basket should allow less coffee through than the double basket, and hence should still take 25s to pull at the same grind. However in practice, I have found this not to be the case. The single basket is much more sensitive to dosing/tamp/grind than the double basket, and so any inaccuracies on this front will lead to a bad shot.

View attachment 12719


----------



## Mrboots2u

teejay41 said:


> Many thanks, Obnic, for your prompt and most informative reply. I'll stick to double shots I think, for I am loth to adjust the grinder too far from its workable setting. I'll certainly play about with slightly altered dose-sizes though.


Hi bear in mind , if you alter the dose size and want to keep to the same recipe / brew ratio , then you would need to alter the grind size to reflect this

In simple terms

If you use more coffee in a double basket but want to keep to the same output of espresso in roughly the same time , then you would need to coarsen the grind slightly

If you use less coffee for a double basket but want to keep to the same output in roughly the same time , then you would need to make the grind finer a bit...


----------



## Dylan

NJD1977 said:


> If you look at the base of a single basket vs a double basket vs a triple basket (see image below), you will see that there is a smaller diameter of perforated section at the base of the single basket caused by a more tapered basket at the base. Likewise there is a greater perforated area at the base of the triple basket. So in theory, the single basket should allow less coffee through than the double basket, and hence should still take 25s to pull at the same grind. However in practice, I have found this not to be the case. The single basket is much more sensitive to dosing/tamp/grind than the double basket, and so any inaccuracies on this front will lead to a bad shot.
> 
> View attachment 12719


This is true up to when you get to an 18g basket, which generally are straight walled with a fully perforated bottom, just a like a 21g basket. I have not used a 21g but did always wonder if they allowed a faster flow to account for the extra coffee, or if you dealt with this through grind.


----------



## NJD1977

I'm pretty sure the stock double gaggia basket has a slight taper in the base of it, as per the image above. The triple is completely straight walled all the way down so I'm fairly sure there is more peforated area in the base of a triple basket than an 18g double basket.


----------



## Dylan

NJD1977 said:


> I'm pretty sure the stock double gaggia basket has a slight taper in the base of it, as per the image above. The triple is completely straight walled all the way down so I'm fairly sure there is more peforated area in the base of a triple basket than an 18g double basket.


Well that depends on the 18g double. I'm not sure of the size of the gaggia stock 'double' but a VST 18g for example is straight sided.


----------



## NJD1977

Yeah you're right, the VST 18g has straight sides, but the stock double basket has a small taper in the base, as per image below:

View attachment 12721


----------



## Mrboots2u

NJD1977 said:


> Yeah you're right, the VST 18g has straight sides, but the stock double basket has a small taper in the base, as per image below:
> 
> View attachment 12721


`this is one suggested design reason why the vst in measured test delivers a higher extraction yield ( understandably some will counter if you can taste that in the cup etc )


----------



## Colio07

teejay41 said:


> I am a complete noob at espresso, having equipped with my first machine only a week or two ago, since when I have avidly studied info. and advice on the 'net.
> 
> My inaugural equipment suite comprises: Gaggia New Baby with Silvia wand conversion and standard portafilter, single and double shot non-pressurised filter baskets, an Iberital MC2 grinder, Motta tamper, and a newly acquired, and as yet, untried, bottomless portafilter with 21g triple-shot basket. In addition of course, are stainless frothing jugs, a thermometer and small digital weighing scales etc. The Gaggia and Iberital were bought second-hand, both having been well maintained.
> 
> Since I started in espresso coffee making no'but a couple of weeks ago, today for the first time I succeeded in pulling a double shot comprising two timed grinds, each weighing exactly 7g, straight into a portafilter with double-shot basket, tamped and delivered as a weighed 30g of liquid, in an exactly 25secs pull (the time includes the first 6 seconds or so before liquid is seen to emerge from the portafilter). The crema was OK I suppose, but doubtless an expert barista would have found it nothing to write home about. Adding around 150ml of stretched milk with a classic 'wet paint' appearance, prepared a couple of minutes before the pull, made a most palatable latte. (I have a long way to go before attempting latte-art). The puck, looking slightly damp but not visibly wet, fell out of the basket cleanly as one, on first knock. I would add that between frothing the milk and pulling the shot, I cooled down the Gaggia's brew-water by drawing off hot water through the steam wand into the target cup - which also served to warm the cup. Once the steam had gone and straight hot water flowed from the wand, I deemed the machine to be sufficiently cooled and ready for the shot. The coffee beans, by the way, are Cuban Serrano Superior from Rave, roasted eight days ago.
> 
> So far, so good.
> 
> What perplexes me though, is different size pulls. If the 'target' (double) shot is 14g of ground coffee pulled over 25secs to make 28-30g of liquid, how on earth can a single shot (or a triple, for that matter) meet those same parameters? In the case of a single, only 7g of ground coffee is dispensed (into a 'single' basket) and brewed to make 14-15g of liquid coffee. Is this still supposed to take 25secs to pull, for clearly, it won't, or should the grind-size be altered (I'm disinclined to alter the MC2 grinder from its laboriously fine-tuned burr setting) to bring the pull time back into kilter with the universally accepted recommended 25secs? Similarly, a 21g triple-shot pull is bound to take longer, so would presumably end up with the bitterness of an overly long pull. What really needs to change, as far as I can see, is the brew-water flow rate through the showerhead, but apart from the hassle of adjusting the delivery pressure (with the OPV?) I can see no means of altering that.
> 
> Any enlightening wisdom on this subject would be most welcome.
> 
> Thanks in anticipation.


Hi teejay41,

Welcome to the forum.

Beyond the points made by others on singe/double/triple shots, grinding, etc., I thought I'd pass on a few tips - apologies in advance if you've read about (or are doing) these already!

First, in terms of testing whether the water from your machine is ready to brew espresso, it's tough to do so accurately unless you've got some sort of "live" thermometer (thermocouple, PID hooked up to your boiler, etc.), but there are lots of sources online about "temperature surfing" for particular machines - worth seeking these out for your Gaggia New Baby. Beyond that, though, if you maintain your routine of steaming milk first and pulling the shot second, you may consider flushing a little bit of water out of the brew head as well as through the steam wand before you pull your shot... the key point being that you want to make sure the water coming out of the brew head does not "flash steam" (I'm sure there's another, more accurate term for this, but it escapes me at the moment!). If it's still hot enough to "flash steam", you'll scald your coffee for sure. If the water runs out smoothly, you'll at least avoid this potential pitfall!

Second, you're likely to make the quickest progress with your espresso-making skills if you take a systematic approach to changing variables - try to keep everything consistent except for the single variable you're testing. Given how you've written your post I doubt this will be a problem (you seem pretty methodical, which is good!). But it's always useful to remember that when you're testing a variable - e.g. grind size, dose size, brew temperature, extraction time, type of water you're using - you're aiming to keep all other variables consistent. And with that, keep weighing in & out and timing!

Finally, continuing on the subject of timing your espresso shot, you should also look at how the coffee flows - aim for a nice, viscous shot that doesn't become "blonde" for very long. And a bottomless portafilter's great for testing your technique and diagnosing issues with distribution and tamping, so once you feel able to you should start using it to see how your shots extract through it.

Hope that's helpful. Good luck, and enjoy it!


----------



## Mr.Sun

16g double is my morning/aftermeal routine.


----------



## gesus

This single/double wall confuses me a lot too. I assumed it was linked to the single vs double shot but it appears this may not be the case?


----------

