# How hard do you all tamp?



## BraveDave23 (Jan 28, 2021)

So how hard does everyone tamp? I've heard 30lbs, 20-30lbs, 5-10kg....

Then today a nice Italian man called me from a local coffee distributor. Told me he didn't want to sell me the levelling tool I enquired about as it was unnecessary, then spent 15 mins on the phone giving me advice. Most importantly his advice on tamping:

He said after a few taps of the portafilter *just place a flat heavy metal tamper on and just let it's own weight do the tamping*, and twist as I pull away, do not press down. He said if the grind is fine enough and the coffee fresh there is *no need to press down.*

He was so passionate in everything he said and called me just to give advice I find it hard to think he could be wrong.

What's everyone's opinions on this?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Levelling tools aren't necessary.

There are plenty of people who tamp very light or just with the weight of the tamper, or at least there used to be. What it provides is consistency, but not much else. Twisting can fracture the puck, though it's done to prevent a vacuum forming I believe too (you can buy tampers that really minimise that risk and avoid twisting at all).

Depending on where and how you tap the portafilter you could end up messing up the distribution so you need to know what you're doing with tapping, but tapping to distribute is perfectly fine.

A 5kg or 10kg or 15kg tamp won't significantly affect things. When you ramp a puck up to 9 bar pressure it's going to compress regardless. It's best to keep it consistent and keep it level. If a no-tamp method prevents pressure building up early in the shot (because water can pass through more easily) then it could allow a finer overall grind as low pressure starts to extraction (letting the puck wet and expand a little before full pressure builds) make it less able to resist pressure/flow later in the shot compared to a faster ramp to full pressure. However in compressing the puck you are potentially evening out the bed, removing air pockets etc and the weight of the tamper alone might not do that.

I tamp until I feel resistance and the puck stops compressing, the important thing is to get distribution right and get the tamp level.

http://socraticcoffee.com/2015/07/the-impact-of-tamping-pressure-on-espresso-extraction/


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)




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## Waitforme (Dec 13, 2020)

Interesting, I must try the two finger method.

I'd watched a video the other day from I think it was ACS coffee in Canada reviewing the Lelit Bianca and the woman from Lelit said that you can't press too hard 🤔


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

I use a calibrated tamper...i didn't have a clue and thought well it's one thing less that i have to learn/think about...one less thing to adjust i.e. too little pressure; too much pressure; just a lil twist; no twist....it's a minefield out there and no definitive answer....i was going to buy a "button" tamper (2 finger press) to match my machine but after careful consideration i feel the calibrated tamper just does the job; same job every time.....however YMMV.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Must admit, i dont tamp i use a distributor tool and that acts as my tamp,

I may look for a 'cheap' calibrated push tamper, just to see if it makes a difference


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

With regular tamper, just enough pressure until the 'give' stops, I'd like to say this was light, but when I put the PF on the scales, turns out it's ~5kg (& I'm not particularly strong).

Most of the time I shake the grinds in a cup, into PF via a funnel, distribute the grounds in the basket with a downward tap on counter & sideways taps with heel of the hand. in with an OCD type tool & just let the weight of the tool (420g) do the work whilst I give it a few spins.

I agree with the idea that grind should control the extraction, but you only need to go as fine as you have to, it's easy to grind too fine. I tend to be as coarse as I can to get a balanced shot.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Waitforme said:


> Interesting, I must try the two finger method.
> 
> I'd watched a video the other day from I think it was ACS coffee in Canada reviewing the Lelit Bianca and the woman from Lelit said that you can't press too hard 🤔


 She is wrong.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> She is wrong.


 Yeah but you have to be a bit of a numpty to want to tamp that hard


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## BraveDave23 (Jan 28, 2021)

Thanks everyone for your opinions. I'm going to try tamping lightly like in the video, and if I need much more pressure I will try adjusting the grind.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I think some people would like to tamp like this......


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## Cooffe (Mar 7, 2019)

Personally I've found best results with my SDS Hammer Drill and a precision 58.55mm disc on the end. Extra points if it's 3phase and goes through a generator.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Does it make any difference tho? These guys suggest otherwise.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

> 38 minutes ago, allikat said:
> 
> Does it make any difference tho? These guys suggest otherwise.


 I don't know. The guy just got out of bed and couldn't be bothered to comb his hair before the video, I don't trust him.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> I don't know. The guy just got out of bed and couldn't be bothered to comb his hair before the video, I don't trust him.


 He says tamp consistently and change your grind setting to control extraction. Not that tamping at any pressure makes no difference.


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## joe.barista (Nov 12, 2013)

Tamping is not an art form, tamp until the point of resistance. Ensure the tamp is level. Distribution is far more important than force of tamp.


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## coffeefalafel (Apr 26, 2015)

I've always tamped using the weight of my forearm only, minimal shoulder action!

I like using the levelling tool since I got given one as a gift, my grinder and funnel don't give great distribution or a level puck without some work. Having the levelling tool as well just feels a bit easier for when you just want a coffee but aren't necessarily going for the god shot.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Depends how finely you grind. Your Italian distributor may well be used to the Italian bar style of grinding really fine and tamping mega lightly. It works. Try holding the tamper in the air and pressing the portafilter up into it.

I use a large Mazzer grinder which doesn't clump, and I find I don't need to dick about with the coffee. Maybe a quick finger wipe to even out the distribution then a light single-stroke tamp just taking a little care that it is roughly level and not visibly on the piss.

10 years ago there was all sorts of bullshit that was touted as gospel, Stockfleith manoeuvre, WSEW (or something) nutating etc etc. People obsessing over the few aspects over which they have control, trying to turn it into an artform.

It's not. It's making a coffee.

The one caveat (which is purely personal) concerns some things I did late last year to do with flavours using other additional non-coffee ingredients, where I found tamping method (or not) to be critical. But, for just coffee, just get it level and tamp according to grind works for me.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

Spazbarista said:


> The one caveat (which is purely personal) concerns some things I did late last year to do with flavours using other additional non-coffee ingredients, where I found tamping method (or not) to be critical. But, for just coffee, just get it level and tamp according to grind works for me.


 Additional non coffee ingredients...!!??

Come on, spill the beans...??

(please tell me it wasn't beans)

🤣


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I use a calibrated tamper and a 2 slope distribution tool. It helps with my mad hobby. Fixed 30sec shots and the same always coming out.  Odd whoopsies get drunk for punishment. The 2 slope is used for a light tamp followed by the tamper. The 2 slope can redistribute a bit but any type of similar tool compresses the grinds and if they aren't level some areas will be compressed more than others. I found a 3 wing one worse in that respect. The 2 slope can tamp to incredible pressures - I managed to use the dose for a larger filter basket in a smaller one as forgot I had changed baskets. Maybe 2mm difference in height.

When starting out I always suggest people use at least 10kg as they are likely have enough other problems. Straining a bit helps keep it constant. Once things are ok then is the time to try changes. INHO KIS is best first rather than reading about all of the fads and leaping in immediately and I'd include stirring in that. Grinds are in some ways pretty fragile and just about anything done to them may change flow rates good or bad. Throw things in that are hard to duplicate pretty accurately and it will show in flow rates.

I use the fridge as well. Order 3 bags at a time. In my case they get stuck in 3 vented bean cans which are close to being filled. I drink a lot of a single bean so know roughly how long to rest it when they get here. I start using them a little early when ok I fridge the 2 other cans and switch to an airscape.  Pretty easy on this bean as I am looking at how much oil builds up on the surface of the beans. Others I rest for 3 days. With shipping times that's more than enough to get rid of CO2 IMHO and if some one suggests longer I don't drink them.  If a bean is said to need 2 weeks etc I don't use them. I don't like the taste of any of this type I have tried anyway. I have known a month to spoil some beans that may even start to stink not long after. This was before I used the fridge. Given a new bean I take up to a couple of weeks to use it up and see what changes.

The airscapes do help keep grinder setting more consistent but I wouldn't say they are perfect. As they get low the grinder setting is likely to need changing.

🤣 On the last bean order rather than carefully cleaning the bean cans being lazy I rested them in the bags. It's been a bit of a disaster. They were foil lined paper vented bags.

My tamper is set at 15kg. After ~couple of years use maybe it's time to try lighter. Probably should have earlier. Cheapo 58.5mm of ebay. That size can be a problem on some baskets - depends on how thick it's walls are and and taper in the sides if low doses are used.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

J_Fo said:


> Additional non coffee ingredients...!!??
> 
> Come on, spill the beans...??
> 
> ...


 No it wasn't beans.

Was all sparked off by whisky really. Big fan of sherry and port barrelled whiskies, but because the barrels are extremely expensive compared to the oak bourbon barrels (because bourbon barrels legally have to be used only once) the whiskies tend to be pricey too. So I started to wonder what would happen if I added tiny quantities of sherry or port to whisky.

So I did, and the results were phenomenal.

This led me to thinking about coffee descriptors (blueberry, chocolate, nut etc) and especially about the power of suggestion and marketing. Which in turn led me to thinking that if people like chocolately coffee, why not add chocolate. So I did. In fact I looked at a wide range of coffee descriptors and added a wide range of ingredients with varying degrees of success. Some were vile (blueberries don't taste like blueberries) but some were very surprising and I still use them, not all the time, but for added depth of flavour.

I could go on about this for ages, but I'd probably bore you to death and upset the purists.


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## J_Fo (Dec 24, 2017)

This sounds crazy but fascinating! Can you give me examples? Does the stuff actually go in the portafilter?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Tamp level and tamp light but don't worry too much about the force you are applying as you will never apply the amount of force like the water hitting the puck at 9 bar. Just be consistent in what you do so that you limit the number of variants at play. This is especially important if you change beans often and are having to dial in beans frequently.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

J_Fo said:


> This sounds crazy but fascinating! Can you give me examples? Does the stuff actually go in the portafilter?


 Yes, it all went in the portafilter. I should also add that it was also craft beer that influenced me as well, with new world hops like amarillo and citra used to give tropical fruit aroma. If people want beer that tastes of passion fruit, why not just add passion fruit?

This is all off-topic, and I can see from what this forum has become that zis vill not be tolerated! so I'll keep it brief.

What didn't work? Fruit that wasn't in dry powder form. Chocolate. In fact anything in its natural hydrated form tended to give a weird bloated flavour. The only exception was small quantities (ie match head size) of orange peel....which was marvellous.

What worked? Cocoa nib, dessicated coconut, mango powder, and probably the best and most surprising was leather.


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## 17845 (Jan 10, 2018)

I no longer tamp, I use an adjustable distribtor similar to a Jack.


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## Teddybaebae (Mar 19, 2021)

How much should you tamper?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I like to tamp hard.. why, I seem to get more consistent results 🤷‍♂️ if its the same grams of coffee a.d the distributor stays the same it's the same tamp every time.

Just my two beans worth


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## greenboots (Mar 25, 2021)

I just use my fingers and thumbs press and rotate 90 degrees, 180, 270 degrees.


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

It really doesn't matter that much as the water will be hitting the puck at 9bar (or however your machine is set.) Get the puck flat and level, jobs a gud'un.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

20kg. How do I know?

Using a Puqpress which esteemed reviewers mostly say is not recommended for prosumer use but its been a game changer for me. Incredibly consistent pours. I'm sure that many people, more experienced than me, would not need it but for me it's taken one variable out.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tompoland said:


> 20kg. How do I know?
> 
> Using a Puqpress which esteemed reviewers mostly say is not recommended for prosumer use but its been a game changer for me. Incredibly consistent pours. I'm sure that many people, more experienced than me, would not need it but for me it's taken one variable out.


 There is in fact one in the classifieds at the moment

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/item/70-puqpress-q2/?do=embed


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Looks like a Q2 which is for a busy Cafe. mine is a Q1 for small cafes or home use. I paid equivalent of £450 for my Q1. A Q2 for home use is probably a wee bit OTT even more than a Q1.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

tompoland said:


> 20kg. How do I know?
> 
> Using a Puqpress which esteemed reviewers mostly say is not recommended for prosumer use but its been a game changer for me. Incredibly consistent pours. I'm sure that many people, more experienced than me, would not need it but for me it's taken one variable out.


 What happens if you change it to 25kg


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> What happens if you change it to 25kg


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've tried all sorts of tamping pressures with a calibrated tamper. I use 30sec fixed timed shots and check weigh what comes out. 15kg suits me and lower results in more variation.  Higher more effort than needed. Grinds distribution in the basket needs to be even though also in terms of any compression in them.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

Rob1 said:


>


 Pretty much of the same view as @DavecUK who is vastly more experienced than me, in that it does not make much difference at all. Or at 10kg. The main thing is the consistency and dialling in the grind size. But from 20kg to 25kg there is no difference. The evenness of the tamp and making sure there are no channels, that's 90% of the ball game. For the former I initially used a level to see how consistent the levelness was.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@tompoland A mate bought me 2 little levels for Christmas, and a headphone stand....now I know exactly what to do with the little round level 😉


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

tompoland said:


> For the former I initially used a level to see how consistent the levelness was.


  I wondered where I was going wrong. When I hold the portafilter out of level the grinds are too.


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