# Behmor Brazen Plus Review



## froggystyle

Thought i would write up a little review on the Behmor Brazen i purchased from Ronsil last week as i have used it a couple of times now.

Out the box was all the little bits that make the machine up, main body, lid for top, filter basket, filter basket holder, serving jug and lid, little measuring scoop, instruction book.



















The top of the machine has a nice large lid that comes away and presents you with the water chamber, it has some markings on the side, first for calibration, then 900ml (6 cups) and 1200ml (8 cups).

The lid also locks into place.

You can see the filter for the water to drop down onto the grinds in the below shot, what you can't see is the little temp probe that sticks up, only a millimeter or two though.










The jug for your brewed coffee is a nice chunky jug, feels well made and is insulated, i made a brew this morning, had a cup, went back an hour later and the coffee was still hot enough to have to wait a few minutes to drink!

The lid on the jug locks into place easily enough.

When all put together i think the look of the machine stands out nicely, looks good next to the compact vario!










In terms of setting up there is not a lot to it really, push the Mode button and the auto start timer is up, select a time you want to make a brew automatically, although i can't really see many people using that as you would need to load the grinds up in advance!

Press menu again and you get the Pre soak time, default it 15 seconds, i have mine set to 30 seconds.

Press menu again and you get the water temp, default is 90c, been using mine at 94 for now.

Press it again and you get the clock, just a normal clock which i guess you will need to do if you fancy auto start in the morning.

Press once more and its the calibration mode, set your altitude, around 500ft for the midlands and your done.

At this point for your first time, you should fill the water up to the calibration mark and leave the ,lid off, then press the start button, it then does its magic and boils the water for about 30 seconds to calibrate the temp, then it beeps to tell you its calibrated.

You then need to fill your water back up to the desired weight.

Pop your grinds in the basket and slot in place and hit the start button!

The machine will start heating the water and show you them temp, then when it reaches the set temp it will drop some water on the grinds, then enter presoak for the period you set (30 seconds for me), it tells you this on the screen, then aft6er the 30 seconds it kicks in again pouring water on the bed of grounds till the reservoir is empty and beeping three times.

I read in the user manual this part,

'Presoak will release approx 4oz of water first to wet the coffee grounds before actual begins based on the pre soak setting, during brewing, water will be pulsed and released every 15 seconds to create turbulence and help improve extraction from the coffee grounds'

So how does the coffee taste??

Well i have only used it a couple of times, but first impressions are very good, been using my own roasted beans, these beans were used all last week in the V60, same grinder, no pouring kettle just a standard kettle.

Based on it being fully automatic, i can see its taking a lot of the mistake i make when using the V60 away, no more guessing the temp of the water, am i pouring correctly and i don't have to stand there anymore, which at work can cause people to suggest your taking too many breaks for a coffee!

Coffee is tasting much better for less faff, i need to roast some of my ethiopians now a little better and play with the grind size plus temp.

So there you go, very happy and thanks to Rons wife for not liking it and giving me the chance to try it out, i can't see me selling this on, even if i take it home it will still be used.


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## ronsil

I hope your ethiopians roast well, poor little things!.


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## froggystyle

Just to add i have been using with the standard metal filter basket that comes with the machine, i have ordered some filters that Gray suggested, i am hoping these are ok, i think with any machine like this you run the risk of oils tainting the metal basket, with filters you remove this risk.

Plus i like my coffee with big body and the couple of cups i have made so far have been a little lacking in that dept, more work to be done!


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## jlarkin

What size brew did you make? I tried some smaller ones


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## garydyke1

Nice little review.

The gold filter doesnt offer as much resistance as Kalita 185 papers, I get much higher TDS (and higher EY) using the papers.

If I were to continue to use the gold filter I would probably up the dose to around 60-62.5g/litre. With papers i'm around 55g/litre


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## froggystyle

Been using 900ml and playing with the grind weight, from 30 to 40g.

Todays was 40g.

One thing i have not done yet is run this with no coffee or basket holder in place, i want to see what happens with the water when it comes though.

May have a look later.


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## froggystyle

Not gonna put too much effort in till the filters come in, need to bring some scales in also that can take 1000g as mine only do 250g.

Then i can compare and change things a little more accurately.


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## Bigpikle

thanks - looks like a very neat machine and well engineered. Would love one but just dont think I can justify the volume of drinks. Not to mention the cupboard already full of coffee kit!


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## froggystyle

We can always justify more coffee gear!


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## NickdeBug

Nice review froggy and I concur with your findings so far.

This is, by some margin, the easiest route that I have found to good coffee so far. And that includes the Sowden.

I have been going for a longer pre-soak than you (2-2.5 mins, depending on the coffee) and the same brewing temp. I am being a bit lazy and using the 900ml line on the reservoir. Probably need to weigh how much water is added to reach that point, but I doubt that it is too far out. Dose has been approx 50g (or a little over) for 900ml, so around 55g/l which ties in with Gary's findings.

Particularly impressed with the thermos jug. When I first brewed up 900ml I invited a colleague to partake as I doubted that I would get through that amount of coffee. No longer! I have just had a mug that I put on at 8.30 this morning. It was warm rather than hot but I have to say that the described notes for the bean (Rave's Guatemala La Florida) have never been clearer - lots of chocolate and pineapple.

I will try some of the Kalita filters at some point, but happy with the intensity that I am already getting.

Takes about a minute to set up in the morning and beeps to tell me when it is ready. About as faff-free as you can get.


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## froggystyle

Agreed on the above Nick, 900ml is about 900g so your dose seems about right.

Went a little stronger this morning and dosed 65g to about 1l, could taste the difference.

Like you say, once it's set up with your soak time and temp its very easy just to fill up first thing and come back 10 minutes later.

Cracking little machine!


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## froggystyle

Filters come through from hasbean yesterday, popped one in this morning and 30g of coffee in, 500ml of water, measure it in my kettle and 500ml comes to about the bottom of the writing in the water chamber.










Filter fits just right in the basket.










Timed my brew this morning, from hitting start to beeps at the end, 2.30 minutes, this includes 30 second soak.

Grinds when finished all remained in the filter, nothing in the basket under.










Cup compared to yesterday seemed to have more body, more my taste!!

Deffo recomend the filter if your finding it a little thin in the mouth.


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## froggystyle

I do believe this machine should come with a timer, it wouldn't be hard to build one into the display i would have thought, one that starts when you hit go and stops when the beeps kick in at the end of the brew.

This mornings brew after being left for a while was even more tasty, strong licorice smell coming through from the brazilians!


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## jlarkin

Would the timer show total brew time then? Is that for tinkering with grind purposes or something else?


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## froggystyle

Yeah, would be nice for it to show total brew time.


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## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> Yeah, would be nice for it to show total brew time.


I think its always 2mins + pre infusion time (on your example amount of water)


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## jlarkin

Ah, I suppose the affect of grind would mean you'd have to be monitoring how long it takes to flow through into the jug.


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## froggystyle

garydyke1 said:


> I think its always 2mins + pre infusion time (on your example amount of water)


Grinding finer would increase the time though yes?


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## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> Grinding finer would increase the time though yes?


How?

Does the beeper go off when the machine has delivered its last bit of water + a nominal time to allow draining

or

Does the beeper go off when it senses the coffee bed has finished draining?

Your next experiment ?


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## froggystyle

Off ot brew right now!


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## garydyke1

Just do it without the filter holder in place and have a receptacle sat underneath it to catch the hot water.

you'll see the shower head in action and immediately if your counter top isn't level

G


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## froggystyle

Ok just run the following, 500ml (approx) water through 30g, 30 second soak.

First was setting 4 on the vario, 2.30 minutes till bulk of water went through, 7 mins till beeps

Second was setting 0 on the vario, 3 minutes till bulk of water went through, 3.30 minutes till beeps

Where i say bulk of water, this is where you can hear the water finish dripping into the jug.

Confused now as i would have thought a tighter grind would slow it down, which you see in the 1 minute difference till water has stopped dripping, but then it beeps 3.30 minutes before the courser grind.

Am i missing something?


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## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> Ok just run the following, 500ml (approx) water through 30g, 30 second soak.
> 
> First was setting 4 on the vario, 2.30 minutes till bulk of water went through, 7 mins till beeps
> 
> Second was setting 0 on the vario, 3 minutes till bulk of water went through, 3.30 minutes till beeps
> 
> Where i say bulk of water, this is where you can hear the water finish dripping into the jug.
> 
> Confused now as i would have thought a tighter grind would slow it down, which you see in the 1 minute difference till water has stopped dripping, but then it beeps 3.30 minutes before the courser grind.
> 
> Am i missing something?


If you go too fine on the grind the water will channel and/or gush around the coffee bed perhaps??


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## jlarkin

garydyke1 said:


> If you go too fine on the grind the water will channel and/or gush around the coffee bed perhaps??


Good thinking, maybe particularly if it was with the paper filter?


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## garydyke1

This is where a refractometer comes in handy.

Bulk brewers , particularly Marco/Brazen style shower head designs dont respond well to a finer and finer grind. If you want to up strength you increase the dose


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## froggystyle

What puzzles me is the time between bulk of water running through the grinds and the beeps, its a massive difference that i dont understand.

Big question is how does it detect it has finished brewing?


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## garydyke1

Pass. The manual states ''Once the reservoir is empty, three beeps will be heard indicating the brew cycle is finished and coffee is ready to enjoy.''


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## garydyke1

Surprised no one has tried the manual release option with a V60/Kalita/1-3 cup chemex


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## froggystyle

have you?


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## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> have you?


Dont have time for such experiments , or play time! (other than posting on here)


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> Surprised no one has tried the manual release option with a V60/Kalita/1-3 cup chemex


How you do this ?

Been enjoying using the brewer last couple of days

got some filters now too so gonna dive into those tomorrow

It really is simples to use , coffee in minutes and once dialled in gives a great cup ( using metal filter only )

If you wanna hit a button in the morning , and get a tasty brew while your in the shower , this baby is for you


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> How you do this ?


Use the brewer in manual release. fill with water , remove filter basket and place v60 etc underneath. when its up to temp, press and unpress the 'manual release' button as desired


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## NickdeBug

Just tried the Brazen with some Monsoon malabar - nasty!

Lots of woody flavours and a rather bitter lingering after taste.

Conclusions:

1) the Brazen is excellent at bringing out the flavours of the bean

2) I don't like Monsoon malabar

Back to the lighter roasts for me


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## The Systemic Kid

Brave experiment, Nick trying MM brewed.


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## NickdeBug

"Experience is something that you don't get until just after you need it" - Steven Wright

I won't be repeating the experiment.


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## jlarkin

Do any of you that have the filter papers find them slightly on the small side? When I put in about 60g of coffee then the paper seems to sit very low in the "basket" (plastic thing that slots into the Behmor not the gold filter. I ordered the Kalita 185 filters from CoffeeHit.


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## froggystyle

Same as i use, are you washing them first?


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## garydyke1

jlarkin said:


> Do any of you that have the filter papers find them slightly on the small side? When I put in about 60g of coffee then the paper seems to sit very low in the "basket" (plastic thing that slots into the Behmor not the gold filter. I ordered the Kalita 185 filters from CoffeeHit.
> 
> View attachment 15335
> View attachment 15336


Your murdering those papers


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## Dallah

That certainly looks too small. Do you have an 'after' pic? I'm curious once the grounds expand how close they are to overwhelming the filter.


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## jlarkin

garydyke1 said:


> Your murdering those papers


I'm not sure what you mean.


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## froggystyle

I tried rinsing mine, gave up, to much faff, i just use them straight in now.


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## garydyke1

Wave filters need to maintain their shape to work properly. Example of 30g. Before , direct from EK , after a shake and tap. Will do another when the brew has finished .


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## garydyke1

et voila . Wave maintains shape .


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## jeebsy

Nice socks


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## garydyke1

Ive been holding on to some coffee to see how the Brazen deals with very well rested coffee.

3 week old NICARAGUA FINCA SAN JOSE PULPED NATURAL LONGBERRY.

The answer : Higher extraction!

Dose 26g

water 515g

93

30 sec preinfusion

TDS 1.17%

EY 22%

Flavour : muted sweetness and lacking flavour . bitterness and bovril elements. Note the coffee still cups very well.

Previous results were around 19.5% EY with all settings the same....and tasting amazing .

So be careful with fresh v rested coffee. You'll need to adjust the recipe


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## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> Wave filters need to maintain their shape to work properly. Example of 30g. Before , direct from EK , after a shake and tap. Will do another when the brew has finished .
> View attachment 15337
> View attachment 15338
> View attachment 15339


I rinse mine with boiling water first. Pour it into the middle of the paper and it forms perfectly in the basket


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## garydyke1

The beauty of the wave filters when used correctly


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## Xpenno

Yup, they are perfect at the mo, not tried at full brew capacity yet! 900mls is fine for sure.


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## jlarkin

garydyke1 said:


> Ive been holding on to some coffee to see how the Brazen deals with very well rested coffee.
> 
> 3 week old NICARAGUA FINCA SAN JOSE PULPED NATURAL LONGBERRY.
> 
> The answer : Higher extraction!
> 
> Dose 26g
> 
> water 515g
> 
> 93
> 
> 30 sec preinfusion
> 
> TDS 1.17%
> 
> EY 22%
> 
> Flavour : muted sweetness and lacking flavour . bitterness and bovril elements. Note the coffee still cups very well.
> 
> Previous results were around 19.5% EY with all settings the same....and tasting amazing .
> 
> So be careful with fresh v rested coffee. You'll need to adjust the recipe


So if you're using a longer rested coffee, what would you change to try and improve it compared to your usual settings? Even if it's theory I'm interested.


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## froggystyle

This machine continues to amaze me, this morning i tried my own roasted Kenyan beans, standard 30g into 500g 1 minute pre soak.

Getting real lemon sorbet, lemsip flavours coming through, now this is the first time i have had these kind of flavours come through in my brews, freaking me right out!!

I guess this machine is just great at doing what it says on the tin, plus my own roasted beans must be on the button in terms of profile.

Win win!


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## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> This machine continues to amaze me, this morning i tried my own roasted Kenyan beans, standard 30g into 500g 1 minute pre soak.
> 
> Getting real lemon sorbet, lemsip flavours coming through, now this is the first time i have had these kind of flavours come through in my brews, freaking me right out!!
> 
> I guess this machine is just great at doing what it says on the tin, plus my own roasted beans must be on the button in terms of profile.
> 
> Win win!


Its made my Chemex redundant to be honest . Time saved and guaranteed decent extraction each and every time.


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## froggystyle

Yeah i have not touched the V60 since getting it!


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## risky

This appeals to me if it is quite foolproof.


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## garydyke1

Reminder of the code *UKCFBehmor*


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## Step21

garydyke1 said:


> Its made my Chemex redundant to be honest . Time saved and guaranteed decent extraction each and every time.


Enough! I've taken the plunge. I had been saving for a PID kettle but this seems to be that and much more.

Thanks for the code Gary.


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## garydyke1

Step21 said:


> Enough! I've taken the plunge. I had been saving for a PID kettle but this seems to be that and much more.
> 
> Thanks for the code Gary.


Dont forget the Kalita 185 papers ; )


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## Yes Row

I have one of these in my basket, I'm wavering, dare I? My wife will have a shit fit. Not the cost, as I will tell her it was 25 quid. But the amount of kit I'm amassing

Maybe sleep on it


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## NickdeBug

I sold a Classic on to make the Brazen a cost neutral purchase.

Absolutely no regrets. Used everyday at work and hits the spot everytime. Finally inderstanding some of the flavours that people were going on about. Stays at drinking temperature range for several hours and gets even tastier as it cools.

To be honest, if I could only keep one coffee machine I would probably stick with this and ditch the espresso. Just sooooo easy to get delicious coffee from it.


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## Step21

My Brazen arrived today. Hooray!

I found the calibration a bit of a faff but got there in the end. Actually, i'm not sure i needed to calibrate it at all because my setting is zero (i'm at 40ft above sea level). A bit of muppetry involved in this. 1st calibration attempt failed with all the water ending up in the carafe which i forgot to empty. 2nd calibration worked - then topped up the water to go through the first brew cycle, which spilled over when i wasn't watching it. Keeps the worktop nice and clean! So no automatic detection of a full carafe.

First brew with the Kailta filter & the end of a bag of HasBean Yirg (Gebda washed) turned out very nicely. Set pre infuse to 30sec and temp to 202F. 1.7 turns on the Hausgrind (coarse drip) and 28.40g/503ml water, so brew ratio of 56.46g/l. TDS 1.24, EY approx 20.55% (forgot to weigh actual output). Noticeably even extraction and tasty cup. I'd tried a couple of chemex with this bean earlier in the week and not got anything decent at all finding it much better as immersion.

It seems quite hard to get the coffee out of the carafe - doesn't seem to pour that well? Must be missing something here.

Really looking forward to playing with this with new beans.

Going to be really handy with most of the family home these next few days all wanting a brew at the same time. My other half enjoyed the cup and the ease of use has sparked her interest. Looks like a win, win!


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## garydyke1

Step21 said:



> It seems quite hard to get the coffee out of the carafe - doesn't seem to pour that well? Must be missing something here.


With the lid screwed on I find it pours super well at full pour. Try the same with the lid off and it doesnt work quite as well.


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## DoubleShot

Would a felgrind hand grinder be suitable for use with one of these or would something different/better be required to get the best out of it?


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## Step21

DoubleShot said:


> Would a felgrind hand grinder be suitable for use with one of these or would something different/better be required to get the best out of it?


The Feldgrind AFAIK shares the same burrs as the Hausgrind. So it should be very suitable. No doubt an EK or Compak equivalent would be better but there is a huge price gulf between them and a Feldgrind.


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## Step21

Has anyone tried a full max 1.2L brew with a wave filter? I tried a 1litre brew today and afterwards the filter was really full. I'm wondering if some coffee grinds might leak out if more coffee was in it?

I tried it on manual release with my Bonavita today. Set it for 204F, released the water into the Bonavita, coffee in, long steep, lovely brew. Gets the water up to temp much quicker than my kettle. Very impressive.


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## froggystyle

Doesn't matter if the grinds spill out the paper filter you have the basket as back up.

I much prefer the brews from this after resting for 30 minutes, 45 mins to one hour are lovely!


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## Step21

froggystyle said:


> Doesn't matter if the grinds spill out the paper filter you have the basket as back up.
> 
> I much prefer the brews from this after resting for 30 minutes, 45 mins to one hour are lovely!


Not had the chance to rest a brew yet. Too many eager drinkers waiting on their coffee! They are beginning to learn that it improves in the cup as it cools. This is going to be an ultra consistent way of getting good coffee and takes the pressure off my limited pourover skills.


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## jlarkin

Step21 said:


> Has anyone tried a full max 1.2L brew with a wave filter? I tried a 1litre brew today and afterwards the filter was really full. I'm wondering if some coffee grinds might leak out if more coffee was in it?
> 
> I tried it on manual release with my Bonavita today. Set it for 204F, released the water into the Bonavita, coffee in, long steep, lovely brew. Gets the water up to temp much quicker than my kettle. Very impressive.


I thought it was supposed to be either use the filter paper or the gold basket but not both?

I've done a litre as well and it had gone slightly over the edge. Meant to check how level it is because I think the paper collapses slightly on the front of mine



froggystyle said:


> Doesn't matter if the grinds spill out the paper filter you have the basket as back up.
> 
> I much prefer the brews from this after resting for 30 minutes, 45 mins to one hour are lovely!


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## DoubleShot

Just to double check, Kalita 185 filter papers are recommended as the best for use with this brewer?

I've read some mention using a 3-4 cup Chemex underneath? Is this necessary or can I start off using one without? Don't currently have a Chemex so would be purchasing one especially if it's required.


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## garydyke1

I've not tried larger than 1 litre. However.....manual release should prevent that. You can pulse very small doses of water , thus the bed won't breach .


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## Step21

DoubleShot said:


> Just to double check, Kalita 185 filter papers are recommended as the best for use with this brewer?
> 
> I've read some mention using a 3-4 cup Chemex underneath? Is this necessary or can I start off using one without? Don't currently have a Chemex so would be purchasing one especially if it's required.


The brewer comes with a metal filter, but optionally you can use any paper filter that will fit the size/shape of the filter basket. The Kalita wave 185 fits nicely. The brew is output into a metal carafe that comes with the machine.

Optionally, you can choose to brew using the machine as a kettle releasing water into any other brewer that will fit underneath. The small chemex will fit, the next size up needs a mod to make it fit. So, you don't need anything else except the brewer itself to make coffee (apart from coffee!). So far i've used the Bonavita Immersion brewer which is similar to a Clever Dripper and fits easily underneath to receive the water.


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## Step21

garydyke1 said:


> I've not tried larger than 1 litre. However.....manual release should prevent that. You can pulse very small doses of water , thus the bed won't breach .


Thanks, might give that a go. I didn't realise you could use manual release with coffee in the filter.


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## NickdeBug

DoubleShot said:


> Just to double check, Kalita 185 filter papers are recommended as the best for use with this brewer?
> 
> I've read some mention using a 3-4 cup Chemex underneath? Is this necessary or can I start off using one without? Don't currently have a Chemex so would be purchasing one especially if it's required.


Not sure why you would bother buying a Chemex especially to go with the Brazen. I think that Gary has already mentioned that he hardly uses his anymore.


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## DoubleShot

Thanks Step21.

I have a few bits of equipment to do brewed coffee (Impress Brewer, Clever Coffee Dripper plus Aeropress). Had thought about purchasing a Bonavita temperature controlled kettle (circa £90) but for not much more (thanks @garydyke1 for sorting out a discount code) I could have one of these.

And by the sounds of it from those who has used one, it makes rather tasty coffee with next to no faff.

What's not to like?

Any negatives that I should know about before pulling the trigger?


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## garydyke1

NickdeBug said:


> Not sure why you would bother buying a Chemex especially to go with the Brazen. I think that Gary has already mentioned that he hardly uses his anymore.


Chemex is still my ultimate brew , but it's a lot of effort


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## Step21

garydyke1 said:


> Chemex is still my ultimate brew , but it's a lot of effort


I'm going to try a "modded chemex filter inside the basket" brew experiment soon... Now where's the scissors?


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## Step21

DoubleShot said:


> Thanks Step21.
> 
> I have a few bits of equipment to do brewed coffee (Impress Brewer, Clever Coffee Dripper plus Aeropress). Had thought about purchasing a Bonavita temperature controlled kettle (circa £90) but for not much more (thanks @garydyke1 for sorting out a discount code) I could have one of these.
> 
> And by the sounds of it from those who has used one, it makes rather tasty coffee with next to no faff.
> 
> What's not to like?
> 
> Any negatives that I should know about before pulling the trigger?


That was pretty much my thinking with regard to the PID kettle.

You can certainly use it for your CCD or French Press. The water stream is quite narrow so an Aeropress might work if you position it correctly - i've not tried it though. But you are restricted to a static position. A PID kettle is obviously much more manouverable and will give more control over where you pour it (e.g. circular pours). But it doesn't sound like that's an issue with the brewers you have, as they are all immersion brewers.


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## DoubleShot

Quick question to owners of this machine, which grinders are you using with it?

I know froggystyle has the Vario (well it's pictured beside his Brazen, so presume they get used together?)


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## garydyke1

DoubleShot said:


> Quick question to owners of this machine, which grinders are you using with it?
> 
> I know froggystyle has the Vario (well it's pictured beside his Brazen, so presume they get used together?)


EK43 for every single brew method


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## DoubleShot

Won't be stretching to an EK43 to partner one of these I'm afraid. Just wondering whether to stick to my, as yet unused, felgrind hand grinder or whether I'd be better off with a cheapish second hand grinder?

Guess it might depend how I get on with a Brazen and how much it gets used as to whether a hand grinder seems too laborious to use often?


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## DoubleShot

@garydyke1

Can you please recommend me maybe three types of beans from HasBean that you think would suit this brew method plus for someone 'trying' to get into brewed coffee (presently pretty much only drink flat whites)? Perhaps nothing too wild/crazy to start with, lol!

Thanks.


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## Mrboots2u

DoubleShot said:


> Won't be stretching to an EK43 to partner one of these I'm afraid. Just wondering whether to stick to my, as yet unused, felgrind hand grinder or whether I'd be better off with a cheapish second hand grinder?
> 
> Guess it might depend how I get on with a Brazen and how much it gets used as to whether a hand grinder seems too laborious to use often?


Feldgrind will be fine ....just use some elbow grease


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Feldgrind will be fine ....just use some elbow grease


Beans would be better


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## NickdeBug

Use feldgrind with mine.

All good.


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## garydyke1

DoubleShot said:


> @garydyke1
> 
> Can you please recommend me maybe three types of beans from HasBean that you think would suit this brew method plus for someone 'trying' to get into brewed coffee (presently pretty much only drink flat whites)? Perhaps nothing too wild/crazy to start with, lol!
> 
> Thanks.


http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/america-el-salvador/products/el-salvador-santa-petrona-pulped-natural-red-bourbon

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/africa/products/ethiopia-yirgacheffe-gedeb-kurume-washed

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/america-costa-rica/products/costa-rica-la-loma-yh-caturra


----------



## DoubleShot

Like the sound of all three of those. Will be ordering them along with machine.

Many thanks.


----------



## Yes Row

Ok, machine and papers ordered

Come on Gary get it in the post quick, I want to play with it!


----------



## KrisP

My inconsistent V60 results and rave reviews of this are really tempting me!


----------



## froggystyle

'My inconsistent V60 results'

Get one and kiss goodbye to inconsistent drinks!


----------



## robashton

Well I've got mine - I'm very impressed with how easy it is.

If you're having difficulty pouring, make sure you've got the lid on properly, the arrow needs to point towards the spout - it's very easy to put it on at the wrong alignment and it still screws in proper.

==

25g of coffee into 500g of water at 199F, about 4.5 on the classic EK dial with the SQM Kenyan - this is a lot more palatable than the aeropress, I could get more out of it I think - don't want to go too finer on the coffee so might up the temperature next round and I don't want to too strong either because it's a Kenyan and I'm still learning what these are all about and how to like them.

I need to play - it's hard not to drink it all though, and I suspect 2L of coffee a day is going to do me some bad


----------



## froggystyle

199F

What is this funny language you speak, are you American?

Have a play with the pre soak also.


----------



## robashton

I had to google it - I assume I can press a button somewhere to make it useable by a brit.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

froggystyle said:


> 199F
> 
> What is this funny language you speak, are you American?
> 
> Have a play with the pre soak also.


Some of us grew up with Fahrenheit!


----------



## froggystyle

robashton said:


> I had to google it - I assume I can press a button somewhere to make it useable by a brit.


Page 2, Set buttons.


----------



## robashton

Yeah - done, sorted.

Manual is wrong, it says 200F = 90C but it's 93...

I'm at 94C now, doing a 45s presoak at 4 on the EK dial - fingers crossed that comes out alright


----------



## ronsil

When I had the Machine I used a grind about half way round the EK Dial = 7.5 on the Irish Dial


----------



## NickdeBug

The Systemic Kid said:


> Some of us grew up with Fahrenheit!


It's weird that the media still choose to use Fahrenheit sometimes, but Celsius on other occasions.

e.g. Classic redtop headline (without some crappy pun) "Britain gripped in -10 freeze" or "Country swelters in 90 degree blaze". It's never "Brrrr...it's down to 14 degrees today" or "Blimey, it's 32C outside!"

How to spin the weather I suppose.

I work for a US owned company so spend half my life converting gibberish data into SI units.


----------



## robashton

I still find it weird that we talk about weighing beans and water out in grams into cups measured in ounces


----------



## froggystyle

I still find it weird that us so called men spend all day talking about coffee....


----------



## jeebsy

robashton said:


> I still find it weird that we talk about weighing beans and water out in grams into cups measured in ounces


I measure my cups in pecks and bushels


----------



## The Systemic Kid

jeebsy said:


> I measure my cups in pecks and bushels


but that's north of the border.


----------



## NickdeBug

Don't talk to me about bushels. All the crop data I get from the US comes back as bushels/acre. The size of a bushel depends on the crop, and sometimes whereabouts you are in the US. Total nonsense!

Decimalisation in the UK is 8 months older than I am, and yet the country still demonstrates a distinct lack of understanding (or interest) in either of us!


----------



## Yes Row

Mine has arrived and I am impressed by the quality.

Just about to start playing but realised I have ordered 155 papers and not 185 papers, proper naffed off!

More to follow


----------



## jlarkin

DoubleShot said:


> Quick question to owners of this machine, which grinders are you using with it?
> 
> I know froggystyle has the Vario (well it's pictured beside his Brazen, so presume they get used together?)


Going back to this, I use the Baratza Preciso with it.


----------



## froggystyle

Is it wrong to buy a 2nd one of these for home.....

Seriously tempted.


----------



## johnealey

froggystyle said:


> Is it wrong to buy a 2nd one of these for home.....
> 
> Seriously tempted.


No and you can always have it delivered to work, unbox there and then take home unpacked stating as you walk throught the door " didn't work in the office so brought it home......"

John


----------



## garydyke1

Yes Row said:


> Mine has arrived and I am impressed by the quality.
> 
> Just about to start playing but realised I have ordered 155 papers and not 185 papers, proper naffed off!
> 
> More to follow


email [email protected] and ask if you can send em back for exchange?


----------



## NickdeBug

johnealey said:


> No and you can always have it delivered to work, unbox there and then take home unpacked stating as you walk throught the door " didn't work in the office so brought it home......"
> 
> John


There speaks the voice of experience


----------



## johnealey

I may have more than 1 large IPS panel that have bought for work and magically not suitable thus brought home......


----------



## Yes Row

garydyke1 said:


> email [email protected] and ask if you can send em back for exchange?


Gary already had and am dropping by by tomorrow to swap thanks


----------



## Obsy

Just taken the plunge and ordered one. Thanks for the code Gary. Looking forward to getting some tasty brews


----------



## robashton

I'm finding that most of the water comes out of the central four holes in the shower screen, and this in turn digs holes through the grinds and it "channels"

Nobody else seeing this? With 26g of coffee halfway around the EK dial I'm seeing holes dug right through the grinds (and I went and investigated this because my brews are way more watery than I'd expect


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> I'm finding that most of the water comes out of the central four holes in the shower screen, and this in turn digs holes through the grinds and it "channels"
> 
> Nobody else seeing this? With 26g of coffee halfway around the EK dial I'm seeing holes dug right through the grinds (and I went and investigated this because my brews are way more watery than I'd expect


Go finer. Im on 9 on 3FE dial

Are you on a perfectly level surface ?


----------



## jlarkin

robashton said:


> I'm finding that most of the water comes out of the central four holes in the shower screen, and this in turn digs holes through the grinds and it "channels"
> 
> Nobody else seeing this? With 26g of coffee halfway around the EK dial I'm seeing holes dug right through the grinds (and I went and investigated this because my brews are way more watery than I'd expect


Are you using filter papers?

I haven't noticed that on my brews, did struggle with weaker brews before getting the papers. I personally think it does better with higher numbers, like 600ml + /36g coffee +.

So 26g coffee for how much water?


----------



## robashton

9 on the 3fe dial is about 5 on the classic iirc, I get this from 4 up.

went coarser to see if the rocks would help prevent this (nada)

it's level - same surface as my sage!


----------



## froggystyle

I noted the dents in the grinds yes, but then i went finer, problem solved.


----------



## robashton

im on paper filters,26g to 500g (just copying Gary!)

could updose I guess (or just go whole hog with 50/1000


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> im on paper filters,26g to 500g (just copying Gary!)
> 
> could updose I guess (or just go whole hog with 50/1000


I have noticed slight dents where the water jets have hit the surface but that isn't channelling . Its a flood and drain system , each pulse of water rises the bed.

The refractometer doesn't lie. 26g / 500g - EY of >19% without trying.

How are you prepping the filter ? What water?


----------



## robashton

In true Ashton form, minimal prep.

grind into glass, dump into middle of paper, tap to flatten and go. Ashbeck as per usual (so yes, not perfect)

I have tried shaking it about to bring the rocks up the surface but... Well it's the EK - there aren't any real rocks.

the filter itself I was rinsing, but with that volume of water there wasn't really any difference so I stopped doing it


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> In true Ashton form, minimal prep.
> 
> grind into glass, dump into middle of paper, tap to flatten and go. Ashbeck as per usual (so yes, not perfect)
> 
> I have tried shaking it about to bring the rocks up the surface but... Well it's the EK - there aren't any real rocks


Ugh Ashbeck. Definitely updose , say 28g / 500 and go a little bit finer.

oh and grind straight into the paper so you get a broad spread of grinds in the ribs/waves


----------



## froggystyle

pah 30g is where its at, full of body and kicks you in the nuts first thing!


----------



## robashton

garydyke1 said:


> Ugh Ashbeck. Definitely updose , say 28g / 500 and go a little bit finer.
> 
> oh and grind straight into the paper so you get a broad spread of grinds in the ribs/waves


If if a more practical water solution presents itself (remineralisation filter) I'll be spending the money sooner rather then later..

i I guess I could start using volvic.


----------



## jlarkin

robashton said:


> im on paper filters,26g to 500g (just copying Gary!)
> 
> could updose I guess (or just go whole hog with 50/1000


I thought Gary was 55/L not a big difference but some.

I haven't got an EK but I've stuck to 60g/L ratio


----------



## garydyke1

Everyones milage will vary.... different water.....different grinder etc etc


----------



## robashton

I want roastery water.

group buy pipeline?


----------



## DoubleShot

robashton said:


> I want roastery water.


Me too!


----------



## garydyke1




----------



## robashton

28g, grind direct into paper, 4.5 on the EK scale (this is now pretty goddamn fine) - 7/8 on the 3FE dial maybe

FINGERS CROSSED


----------



## froggystyle

Your still drinking coffee at this time of the night?


----------



## froggystyle




----------



## robashton

I'll sleep when I'm dead.

This seems better, need to let it cool before I make any real judgement though (using the Has Bean Costa Rica Bella Vista, saving the rest of the Kenyan for tomorrow).

Still huge divets though, just doesn't seem right


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> I'll sleep when I'm dead.
> 
> This seems better, need to let it cool before I make any real judgement though (using the Has Bean Costa Rica Bella Vista, saving the rest of the Kenyan for tomorrow)


Splash 50ml into a cup , swirl and slurp. we all wanna go to bed


----------



## robashton

Tastes much better, think I'll try 30g tomorrow though.

im on a 1.30 pre soak and at 94C - should be good right?


----------



## robashton

Actually it's pretty sweet - think I can taste the filter now though haha - definitely something funky about this.


----------



## Xpenno

90s pre-soak?


----------



## robashton

I was trying to do what I usually do and start at the wrong side of extraction


----------



## Xpenno

My starting ratio with kalita papers is 54g per L. 30s pre. 94c. I'm not using ek but I'm much coarser than 7 on my baratza. I would estimate that it would be close to wide open on the ek. Getting fantastic results.


----------



## Xpenno

robashton said:


> I was trying to do what I usually do and start at the wrong side of extraction


You got to start somewhere


----------



## robashton

This all seems wholly arbitrary again tbh, suspect with a refractometer it'll turn out to be 0.5% difference all around the dial :/


----------



## garydyke1

30 seconds pre soak for rested beans , 45 seconds for super fresh


----------



## Xpenno

Problem is that there are a load of variables and ways to get to where you want to be its really hard to discuss. Gary's usual advice of fix all but one of your variables and work from this is perfect in this case









When you are using Kalita papers you they will be the main flow restrictor of the brew water. With a fixed dose, grind setting can be used to tweak in the overall tds thus ey.

I went through a test phase of upping dose and opening up grind until I was no longer getting drying (presumably from fines) and then tweaked from there.

Problem with batch is that you can burn through coffee like nobodies business. If I move from 600g brew water to 1200 I cannot simply double the dose, you have to lower it proportionally it open up grind. Luckily I find the brazen to be very forgiving which it need to be for an office machine


----------



## robashton

Using this Kenyan from SQM again - 30g dry, 500g wet, 30s pre-soak at 94C, ground directly into rinsed paper filter (shape intact don't worry Gary).

Consumed before any spro to make sure my taste buds are as fresh as they can be.

Something still tastes weird, I can't put my finger on it. This is most frustrating.


----------



## robashton

Flushing the damned thing through with water a few more times, I think my weird taste is coming from the machine itself.

[update]

Tasted water from purge, water has funky taste, water calamity.


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> Flushing the damned thing through with water a few more times, I think my weird taste is coming from the machine itself.
> 
> [update]
> 
> Tasted water from purge, water has funky taste, water calamity.


Did you do the boil calibration and initial flush - through?

Highly recommend a full cycle with just water . Also the Carafe washed with soap and dried before first use.


----------



## robashton

garydyke1 said:


> Did you do the boil calibration and initial flush - through?


Yes



> Highly recommend a full cycle with just water


 Now done three times, at 99C

.



> Also the Carafe washed with soap and dried before first use.


Yeah, did this - standard operating procedure for new "gadge" in my house


----------



## garydyke1

Baffled


----------



## robashton

I'm just going to repeat a few more times, and run some of my cheaper coffee through instead of wasting all this SQM.

This should be really simple and easy and I should be drinking great coffee with minimal effort (this was the goal after all). At this moment I think spro is easier - and that's stoopid.


----------



## robashton

Done a few more rinses and left the jug soaking in soapy water over night.

Back at it this morning, using the Papercup Colombian (it's a washed caturra that's seen a little too much fire) that if pulled carefully as a spro didn't go too roasty even on the EK

30g / 500g in the Brazen at "5" on the classic EK dial (so about your setting @garydyke1).

The roasty notes are showing themselves, which usually means that it's quite a "good" extraction (at least in my books) and it has made a good mug of simple coffee. Funnily enough there are no holes in this coffee bed either..

Tempted to stick some decent coffee through in a bit at the same ratio and see what happens, there are no "odd" flavours today.


----------



## robashton

actually unable to finish that brew because the roastiness got to me, TIME TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> actually unable to finish that brew because the roastiness got to me, TIME TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE


A well extracted filter coffee will highlight roast defects.

The Brazen gives a very accurate representation of the coffee IMO


----------



## Behmor

This is Joe Behm of Behmor....

Just popping in to assist with questions people might have on the Brazen Plus... First thing to note is temperature setting can really alter the character while still being in the ideal range as defined by the coffee boards. For me I find fruitier coffees such especially Ethiopians brew fruiter, lighter body at lower temps of around 92-93C or richer w/ much less fruit at 96.

Questions, please feel free to fire away and I'll do my best to answer timely


----------



## froggystyle

Behmor said:


> This is Joe Behm of Behmor....
> 
> Just popping in to assist with questions people might have on the Brazen Plus... First thing to note is temperature setting can really alter the character while still being in the ideal range as defined by the coffee boards. For me I find fruitier coffees such especially Ethiopians brew fruiter, lighter body at lower temps of around 92-93C or richer w/ much less fruit at 96.
> 
> Questions, please feel free to fire away and I'll do my best to answer timely


Good to meet you Joe, great machine you have built, love mine!


----------



## Behmor

Thanks froggy.. once you zone in on the temps you like for each type of coffee, a pattern for the character really goes to the individual's own tastes. That's the beauty of the system- for your own tastes.

When we demo the brewer at shows I purposefully pick Ethiopian or similar and set up two systems.. one at 92C and the other 96. Generally (80/20) people prefer the lower temp on that coffee, whereas on darker w/ chocolate such as Guats I tend to go more towards 94-96C. Brighter coffees for me I go 92-93 because I'm not a huge fan of the lip smacking tart factor whereas others do. For them take it up to 95-96, it's brings the brightness out.


----------



## Behmor

Great idea on running a brew with coffee. As to easier once you get over what appears to be an anomaly, it'll all fall into place.


----------



## Jon

Behmor said:


> This is Joe Behm of Behmor....
> 
> Just popping in to assist with questions people might have on the Brazen Plus... First thing to note is temperature setting can really alter the character while still being in the ideal range as defined by the coffee boards. For me I find fruitier coffees such especially Ethiopians brew fruiter, lighter body at lower temps of around 92-93C or richer w/ much less fruit at 96.
> 
> Questions, please feel free to fire away and I'll do my best to answer timely


Nice to see a manufacturer being so proactive!


----------



## Behmor

If I may also suggest on pre-soak times.. On really fresh coffees (3 day post roast) go as high as 1:20 pre-soak. For 5 day and older I keep to :45-55

Grind size while geared towards your own tastes I find best gauge is long after the brew, pull the basket and look for grinds riding up the sides. If a lot, coarsen the grind a bit and you'll get better extraction and minimize the potential to over extract.


----------



## Behmor

Thanks Jon... I try to really be hands on depending upon my travel schedule. Right now I'm still fighting jetlag hell from a trip to Asia to insure another product hits your shores later in the fall. Besides on most days I really love what I do, so it's easy to want to be involved. There are the cringe worthy days that you want to go back to bed though and start again.. all a part of the gig


----------



## Obsy

Mines just arrived. Calibrated and rinsed. Just about to make first brew, am so excited


----------



## Yes Row

Behmor said:


> This is Joe Behm of Behmor....
> 
> Just popping in to assist with questions people might have on the Brazen Plus... First thing to note is temperature setting can really alter the character while still being in the ideal range as defined by the coffee boards. For me I find fruitier coffees such especially Ethiopians brew fruiter, lighter body at lower temps of around 92-93C or richer w/ much less fruit at 96.
> 
> Questions, please feel free to fire away and I'll do my best to answer timely


Welcome Joe...loving your work!

Cracking piece of kit


----------



## Behmor

One other tip.. when calibrating do so in Fahrenheit and while maybe a little bit of a challenge for conversion brew at Fahrenheit as well. Understand Fahrenheit is smaller in it's increments (1C= 1.8F appx) thus for accuracy maybe better.. your call of course


----------



## NickdeBug

Thanks for all the hints Joe. Appreciate your time and input.

Really pleased with the Brazen Plus. Perfect for someone like me who wants tasty coffee, but with minimal fuss.


----------



## jlarkin

I haven't played with the temp much. Very good tips, thanks Joe!

Nice name as well .

Joe


----------



## robashton

Aye, a great machine indeed!

Did some more HB earlier, funky taste is dissipating so I guess there was something that got dissolved...

Still (in my opinion) slightly under extracting - will be tdyjng some high calcium water shortly to see if I'm just being over sensitive or just making things up


----------



## Behmor

up your temp a bit and go ever so slightly finer on the grounds..



robashton said:


> Aye, a great machine indeed!
> 
> Did some more HB earlier, funky taste is dissipating so I guess there was something that got dissolved...
> 
> Still (in my opinion) slightly under extracting - will be tdyjng some high calcium water shortly to see if I'm just being over sensitive or just making things up


----------



## robashton

That'd be the wrong extraction









I want my calcium!

(In all seriousness, I'm actually better off up-dosing in this scenario - if I go any finer on the EK I'll be pouring water into dust!


----------



## robashton

My latest foundry just arrived so it's getting the 30g/500g treatment with a 45s pre-soak - here goes nothing!


----------



## Mrboots2u

El Libano - IMM

going in the Brazen too


----------



## Behmor

what type of coffee? temp? weight?

For all my coffees I generally do about 65g per litre



robashton said:


> That'd be the wrong extraction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want my calcium!
> 
> (In all seriousness, I'm actually better off up-dosing in this scenario - if I go any finer on the EK I'll be pouring water into dust!


----------



## robashton

Behmor said:


> what type of coffee? temp? weight?
> 
> For all my coffees I generally do about 65g per litre


What grinder do you use though? I generally find with the EK that if somebody gives me a recipe that I'm best off easing off from that as it's likely I'll be grinding much finer and getting a much faster, more even extraction than they would be.


----------



## Behmor

I have a Bunn Commercial.. but when I use a Baratza at shows generally I'm around 20-24. I'm looking for kosher salt range.



robashton said:


> What grinder do you use though? I generally find with the EK that if somebody gives me a recipe that I'm best off easing off from that as it's likely I'll be grinding much finer and getting a much faster, more even extraction than they would be.


----------



## Behmor

Looking at apple, medium roast.. I'd go mid range 201/ 94C if I'm trying to get the granny smith and a little acidity.. keep in mind I like sweeter cups and believe the lower range brings this out. Then again that's my taste buds-YMMV



Mrboots2u said:


> El Libano - IMM
> 
> going in the Brazen too


----------



## DoubleShot

Behmor said:


> Right now I'm still fighting jetlag hell from a trip to Asia to insure another product hits your shores later in the fall.


Hi Joe.

Are you able to say whether this will be a revised/updated version of the Brazen Plus or a totally different product please?

Thanks.

Great to have you here to answer questions plus offer hints/tips, there's a growing number of owners of your product and feedback has very positive.


----------



## robashton

Well you'll definitely get a stronger coffee with that brew ratio - I probably got quite a high extraction earlier (given I was reaching the roasty notes that I'm able to avoid even as an EKspresso) so it's likely just me being really fussy about how I want my coffee.

Kenyan is out, and it's definitely quite a high and strong extraction - I suspect that

a) My iffy flavours were coming from something that needed washing through

b) the delicate washed coffee I was using wasn't really up my street as a clean filtered coffee

If anything I need to loosen up a bit on the grind for this coffee and pull back a little. This is good news!


----------



## Behmor

Totally different product












DoubleShot said:


> Hi Joe.
> 
> Are you able to say whether this will be a revised/updated version of the Brazen Plus or a totally different product please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Great to have you here to answer questions plus offer hints/tips, there's a growing number of owners of your product and feedback has very positive.


----------



## robashton

I'll see about clearing some space in my kitchen then...


----------



## froggystyle

Behmor said:


> Totally different product


Any clues?


----------



## garydyke1

Lets keep it on topic please and give jet-lagged Joe a break


----------



## froggystyle

http://behmor.com/new/#section-app

Looking on the site it mentions an app, is this model only available in the USA?


----------



## DoubleShot

froggystyle

Says 'coming soon!' at the bottom of the page.


----------



## froggystyle

Yes but i dont see how that can connect with the model i have?


----------



## Yes Row

Scroll up to the top, a different machine in the picture


----------



## Behmor

Connected products are at least a year out for 220 systems.. and not what is in store for later this year in the UK/ EU.. and Gary is right, about staying with the Brazen Plus ..

I'll drop back by for questions....


----------



## Yes Row

I look forward to trying out some of the tips and info in the morning

Cheers Joe


----------



## Jon

Very tempted to get one of these and finally learn about brewed!


----------



## Nimble Motionists

Just ordered one - looking forward to seeing what it can do v.s. manual brew methods. Had been thinking about a PID kettle for ages but the price point on this (thanks to Gary for discount code) was the tipping point between the two.


----------



## jeebsy

If i do 100 coffee tomorrow i'm gonna get one...


----------



## froggystyle

What if you do 99?


----------



## jeebsy

Jay Z might write a song about it


----------



## froggystyle

I got 99 sales, but a behmor ain't one.....


----------



## Yes Row

Can't beat a 99. Hope the weather is good for you, it will help with the sales

Must be annoying listening to The Magic Roundabout tune in a loop though


----------



## Jon

jeebsy said:


> If i do 100 coffee tomorrow i'm gonna get one...


If you do 200 can you get me one please?


----------



## jeebsy

Dont have enough beans for that soz


----------



## Jon

Boo!


----------



## jeebsy

Ok, leave your house about 2am, get to Sheffield for 7 and get a kilo from foundry, then foot down rest of the way to get to the market with the beans in time


----------



## Jon

That actually sounds like the sort of mission I'd love! Alas: responsibilities!


----------



## robashton

I have a kilo of foundry at mine


----------



## Jon

Sorted then.


----------



## jeebsy

If sales hit 150 i'll shine the Foundry signal


----------



## Obsy

Has your order gone in @jeebsy?


----------



## jeebsy

Nah it was pretty quiet today, there will be no Brazen this week. If I do 150 next weekend i'll get one...


----------



## Obsy

Shame, thought the dry weather would have brought people out. Fingers crossed for next week


----------



## jeebsy

There's a festival on in central Glasgow which i think drew people away from the glamour and glitz of Partick Farmer's market.


----------



## Obsy

Surely nothing could eclipse such glitz and glamour


----------



## robashton

So I just got a the new IMM and decided to go all out on it

View attachment 15762


Two of those filters are with the brazen, one is pure ashbeck, one of them is 50/50 ashbeck and roastery - I'll give you no hint as to which one is a more rounded and sweet cup..

Gotta up my water game.


----------



## robashton

The difference is astounding, the mouthfeel is so different!


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> The difference is astounding, the mouthfeel is so different!


Finally, someone knows what i'm on about !


----------



## garydyke1

Now please tell me you agree that water is absolutely key to amazing coffee


----------



## robashton

Never doubted it for a second - I did attend the black lyan popup you know


----------



## robashton

I wonder where she got her water..


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

robashton said:


> one of them is 50/50 ashbeck and roastery


?


----------



## robashton

A one time only deal was done because I was having such a hard time getting satisfactory extraction


----------



## jlarkin

Gary if you guys are going to start selling it and want more testimonials I'd be very happy to include myself in that phase. Been wondering how much the water is holding me back and since work and our little girl deserve some attention I haven't managed to make customised water yet a la xpenno, yet.


----------



## robashton

jlarkin said:


> I haven't managed to make customised water yet a la xpenno, yet.


I'm anxiously awaiting the next blog entry here, as I intend on following up on it.

not sold on the salts being used so far tho


----------



## Xpenno

robashton said:


> I'm anxiously awaiting the next blog entry here, as I intend on following up on it.
> 
> not sold on the salts being used so far tho


I'm off work next week so I'll get it written up then, well worth the effort imho.


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> not sold on the salts being used so far tho


An eye opener for sure.


----------



## Xpenno

The stuff with salts just wasn't doing it for me. Could be the first time I've used my Chemistry degree in 15 years!


----------



## robashton

Xpenno said:


> The stuff with salts just wasn't doing it for me. Could be the first time I've used my Chemistry degree in 15 years!


Yeah - I looked at doing similar before I read the entry and decided it'd be the wrong sort of addition so didn't. Other









I'm keeping some big bottles to one side for the final "solution"

[edit] and chemistry degree - at least somebody knows what they're on about! I've recruited one of my friends who has a PhD in chemistry, although her first thought was "can't you just use a sonicator"


----------



## Behmor

Interestingly there are experiments where sodium bicarbonate is being used. A friend who was the first artisan roaster in CT going back to the 80s, said it made for a "lively" cup. Always a journey with coffee and a fun one.


----------



## Xpenno

Behmor said:


> Interestingly there are experiments where sodium bicarbonate is being used. A friend who was the first artisan roaster in CT going back to the 80s, said it made for a "lively" cup. Always a journey with coffee and a fun one.


Haha, sounds about right! I found that using this method you can get amazing cups of coffee however its very unpredictable.


----------



## Step21

I have now tried a couple of small brews using a Chemex filter inside the filter holder (cut with scissors) with varying success.

1. Used the machine on auto at 198F with standard brew ratio - came out underextracted TDS 0.99%. Tasted ok actually if a bit weak. I might try this again with a hotter temp and finer grind. I wonder how much liquid is going into the pre soak?

2. Used the machine on manual release 12g/210ml water/204F (fine drip grind) with a 45sec bloom then pressing the manual release button on/off for 5 secs every 15secs until water done. Came out at TDS 1.25 and was really tasty & sweet. The main problem is that you are shooting blind and don't have a measure of how much water is coming through at each pulse or when there is none left. You have to listen for the trickle stopping. I'll try a few more experiments and see if i can nail down something repeatable. The manual indicates that approx 150ml of water is released every 15secs using manual release. Next time i fill up my Bonavita brewer from the Brazen i'll try a similar pulsing regime with scales underneath to get an idea of how much water is being released with each press.

3. Tried one with the Wave filter but because i didn't rinse it first and there was a small amount of coffee the filter folded in on top of the grounds when the water hit it. So for small brews it is essential to pre rinse the filter so it is fully open and can "adhere" to the sides of the filter holder.

I'm really impressed with the even extractions i'm getting out of the Brazen from 200 to 1200ml.


----------



## garydyke1

Step21 said:


> I have now tried a couple of small brews using a Chemex filter inside the filter holder (cut with scissors) with varying success.
> 
> 1. Used the machine on auto at 198F with standard brew ratio - came out underextracted TDS 0.99%. Tasted ok actually if a bit weak. I might try this again with a hotter temp and finer grind. I wonder how much liquid is going into the pre soak?
> 
> 2. Used the machine on manual release 12g/210ml water/204F (fine drip grind) with a 45sec bloom then pressing the manual release button on/off for 5 secs every 15secs until water done. Came out at TDS 1.25 and was really tasty & sweet. The main problem is that you are shooting blind and don't have a measure of how much water is coming through at each pulse or when there is none left. You have to listen for the trickle stopping. I'll try a few more experiments and see if i can nail down something repeatable. The manual indicates that approx 150ml of water is released every 15secs using manual release. Next time i fill up my Bonavita brewer from the Brazen i'll try a similar pulsing regime with scales underneath to get an idea of how much water is being released with each press.
> 
> 3. Tried one with the Wave filter but because i didn't rinse it first and there was a small amount of coffee the filter folded in on top of the grounds when the water hit it. So for small brews it is essential to pre rinse the filter so it is fully open and can "adhere" to the sides of the filter holder.
> 
> I'm really impressed with the even extractions i'm getting out of the Brazen from 200 to 1200ml.


If it helps (and i only measured it the once) I got approx 100ml from the pre soak


----------



## risky

The water thing amuses me in a way. It seems odd that it's such a big thing for the coffee world recently when it is so logical that it is so important.

I keep fish, and my tap water is so soft that I have to 'buffer' it by adding 're-mineralisation salts' and/or putting a sack of crushed oyster shell in the tank to stop the pH drifting all over the place.

What really interested me about the 'Water for Coffee' presentation was the whole section about how TDS is a fairly useless measurement. In fish keeping, pH and TDS are the go to, when as Maxwell has now pointed out, just because Fish A and Fish B both enjoy a TDS of 150-200, the composition of their natural waters could be (and probably is) completely different.

Anyway, what were we talking about? Coffee, back to the coffee: I've been using Waitrose recently and found the coffee not as much to my tastes as when I used Volvic. I believe Waitrose has less Calcium? I wonder if there is an even better bottled water we haven't come across yet. Obviously nothing will beat a specially crafted one but being able to buy it off the shelf is a plus for convenience.


----------



## Step21

garydyke1 said:


> If it helps (and i only measured it the once) I got approx 100ml from the pre soak


Thanks Gary. According to the manual its about 5 US ounces, so that's way too much water for a small amount of coffee like 12g. Most of it will flow through without extracting much.

On playing with the manual release button while filling the Bonavita earlier, i found that a 5 sec "on" press consistently released 35 - 40ml of water. So i think that pulsing this over even time intervals will give consistent results.

Another option i thought i might try is to keep the carafe out when blooming and then insert it - thinking that this should keep the grinds in contact with the water for the duration of the bloom? I think this should be ok for small volumes(the manual does say not to as you could end up with too much liquid trapped).

I also tried a larger brew with a cut and pre rinsed chemex filter (750ml/44g coffee) and this worked perfectly with the resultant grounds bed looking exactly like it does after a brew with a Wave filter. Tasty with a TDS of 1.30. It's a wee bit of a faff sorting out the filter but worth it for a reliable chemex extraction IMO.


----------



## garydyke1

Will give chemex papers a shot. That + manual release should be a killer


----------



## Mike mc

Hi guys not been on for ages.good to see all the regular posters still here.really interested in getting one of these machines


----------



## Behmor

The water release amount is dependent on "head" pressure. If at full capacity (1.2L) it should be close to 10ml per second but as the reservoir gets decidedly lower the flow is reduced. This is the reason early water releases are defined time (15 sec) but towards the end we just open the valve up for a long release.


----------



## Step21

After another stonking brew i thought i'd describe my Brazen(mex) small brew procedure and see if i can tempt others to give it a shot.

Using Chemex pre folded circles cut it back with scissors by a good couple of inches (keeping original shape) then sit it over the Brazen filter basket (over the sink!) and pour boiling water over it. Then shape and press it into shape in the basket.

Grind coffee amount to suit your preferences. I used 11.93g of HasBean Nic Finca Limoncillo washed Ethiosar to 210g water in the top and a fine drip grind (1.3 on the Hausgrind) which is what i'd use for the GaryMex method. This gave me a TDS of 1.35 and EY of 21.46%. Coffee into filter. Put basket in machine.

Set machine to your temp preference (i used 204F) and press the manual release button then start. You might want to pre warm the carafe.

Once the water is up to temp and it beeps press the manual release button - watch the timer and turn off at 5secs by re pressing the manual release button. Wait for however long you want to bloom (i used 45 secs) then insert the carafe to start releasing the brew. Press manual release again to get the next pulse of water, turn off at 5sec, wait 15sec (or however long you fancy) then on for 5secs - repeat until no more water can be heard trickling into carafe. You should get approx 40g water per pulse.

Turn off machine. Pour & enjoy! If you've not pre warmed the carafe it comes out ready to drink. Goodbye manual chemex!


----------



## jlarkin

Step21 said:


> Using Chemex pre folded circles cut it back with scissors by a good couple of inches (keeping original shape) then sit it over the Brazen filter basket (over the sink!) and pour boiling water over it. Then shape and press it into shape in the basket.


Sounds good.

Are you using the chemex paper inside the gold filter basket?


----------



## Step21

jlarkin said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> Are you using the chemex paper inside the gold filter basket?


No. Just the chemex filter.

I have tried it inside the gold filter and it works ok but you get some coffee retained that doesn't make it into the carafe. There's no need or advantage to doing this.

I'll maybe give a V60 filter a try and see how it works out.


----------



## jlarkin

Cool makes sense. I'll maybe give a modified filter a go next week, got some time off.


----------



## froggystyle

Tried it this morning without the basket, just a filter, bit of a fail as the grinds leaked over the paper and got in the brew, guess i will not be doing that again!


----------



## Step21

froggystyle said:


> Tried it this morning without the basket, just a filter, bit of a fail as the grinds leaked over the paper and got in the brew, guess i will not be doing that again!


How much coffee? Did you pre wet the filter and spread it wide? I've not had this issue with Chemex as they are large papers.

I had a similar problem when i tried a V60(size 3) paper. It's not a good shape being so conical and a lot smaller than the chemex paper. A tiny bit of coffee particles made its way into the brew but it still tasted good. Pretty sure i can sort that out though.


----------



## froggystyle

No pre soak, will just stick to what i was doing before, filter in the basket.


----------



## DoubleShot

Are people using Chemex and V60 filter papers because that's what you already have in stock? Kalita 185 papers, mentioned by garydyke1 seem to be the ones to go for if ordering filters for use specifically for the Brazen Plus. Presumably no need to cut or faff trying to get them to fit as with other filter papers?


----------



## froggystyle

Yep Kailta papers for me.


----------



## Step21

froggystyle said:


> No pre soak, will just stick to what i was doing before, filter in the basket.


Thats why it didn't work. If the chemex or any other filter or even the wave (with a small amount of coffee) are not pre wet the sides will fall inwards during the brew with the result either of coffee leaking out or coffee being covered causing dry patches and an uneven extraction.


----------



## Step21

DoubleShot said:


> Are people using Chemex and V60 filter papers because that's what you already have in stock? Kalita 185 papers, mentioned by garydyke1 seem to be the ones to go for if ordering filters for use specifically for the Brazen Plus. Presumably no need to cut or faff trying to get them to fit as with other filter papers?


No. All paper filters impart a different taste to a brew. I particularly like chemex so decided to try it. The Wave filters are a much better fit but still a little small but no need to do anything other than place the wave filter in the basket and put the coffee in. No faff. I do prefer to presoak the filter to get rid of any papery taste the filter might impart. You don't need to do this with the wave unless using small amounts of coffee when the sides of the dry filter will collapse inwards over the coffee.

I think Bunn filters are the proper fit but AFAIK only available in the US.

One of the advantages of this machine is that you don't have to worry about extraction so you can really taste the differences from brews made with various filters and then decide what you like best. Granted it's a bit of a faff but i like experimenting!


----------



## NickdeBug

Plenty of sellers for Bunn filters on ebay. Approx £13 for 500 delivered based on quick search


----------



## DoubleShot

@Behmor

Can you please confirm if Bunn filters offer the best fit for use in a Brazen Plus please?

Thanks.


----------



## froggystyle

The kalitas are fine, i have no problem with them


----------



## Step21

froggystyle said:


> The kalitas are fine, i have no problem with them


I've done a max 1.2L brew with the kalita filter without problem but although they are a good fit width wise they are a bit short on height which could potentially cause a problem. Quoting from the manual "The recommended paper filter is a basket shaped 10 cup filter. Bunn sells a paper filter that fits well".


----------



## Behmor

Bunn A10..



Step21 said:


> I've done a max 1.2L brew with the kalita filter without problem but although they are a good fit width wise they are a bit short on height which could potentially cause a problem. Quoting from the manual "The recommended paper filter is a basket shaped 10 cup filter. Bunn sells a paper filter that fits well".


----------



## NickdeBug

Behmor said:


> Bunn A10..


1000 for a shade under £20

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bunn-A10-Coffee-Filter-for-8-10-Cup-Brewers-and-Home-Models-Case-of-1000-/311263650200?hash=item4878c26198


----------



## Yes Row

I use Kalitas and they work well. Also had the same experience of grounds getting in the jug when not pairing the with metal filter.

I have only made 1ltr brews so i do not know, with the larger volume of water whether it may do the same with the basket in place


----------



## Joel.Sim

All of this is really making me want to get one of these machines...

Typically there doesn't seem to be a local distributer over here...


----------



## garydyke1

Where is ''over here'' ?


----------



## Joel.Sim

garydyke1 said:


> Where is ''over here'' ?


Hehe... Norway.


----------



## garydyke1

Joel.Sim said:


> Hehe... Norway.


Shipping might be quite high : (


----------



## Joel.Sim

garydyke1 said:


> Shipping might be quite high : (


Yeah I had a look at that last night.

With the machine plus 2kg of greens (which likely didn't help the shipping total) it was £53ish shipping.


----------



## robashton

Okay - I've started getting a much better extraction on the behmor now, and it's all down to how I get the coffee into the filter.

As stated previously I keep getting divots, and when they turn up they correspond to a rubbish cup of coffee (I can tell if there are going to be huge divots just by tasting the coffee).

As a result I've been able to back down to 28g of coffee and get a reasonable cup of coffee (even with Assbeck).

Grinding directly into the filter is a huge mess, and needs me to tap it until roughly level - this has a huge effect and generally means divots appear, presumably because of the lovely level bed which the shower screen (which mostly comes from the middle) loves to push right through.

Grinding into a container and then dumping it in the filter and then tapping until level has the same effect.

If I grind into one of my stainless steel milk jugs and then evenly distribute into the filter and therefore don't need to level then I don't get divots - presumably because of science of some sort.

First time I did this with 32g of coffee I got waaaay too strong a brew, for a change I was relieved about that fact though.

[edit]

It doesn't seem right that so much water comes out those central holes and none of the surrounding ones, can somebody else check and look at how theirs distributes?


----------



## garydyke1

cant say the central pour is something I have noticed on mine. Perhaps video the streams when doing manual release ??

Grinding directly into the filter paper works well for me , pretty central. A slight shake evens it all out.


----------



## robashton

Hard to take a video of something that's so black - I need a light source.

Basically water comes out of the four central holes and occasionally a fifth outer one. I'd have thought having all those holes the purpose would be that water comes out of all of them.

Sticking my fingers over the central holes, water does then come out elsewhere at a reduced rate (not to be done when at fully temperature haha)


----------



## Step21

NickdeBug said:


> 1000 for a shade under £20
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bunn-A10-Coffee-Filter-for-8-10-Cup-Brewers-and-Home-Models-Case-of-1000-/311263650200?hash=item4878c26198


Plus some expensive shipping costs from the US. They look remarkably like the Kalita wave filters! It would be interesting to find what sort of flavour they impart compared to other filters.


----------



## Mike mc

Just recieved mine.looks like I'll be sending it back as the LCD display is full of scratches and also the casing


----------



## Step21

robashton said:


> Hard to take a video of something that's so black - I need a light source.
> 
> Basically water comes out of the four central holes and occasionally a fifth outer one. I'd have thought having all those holes the purpose would be that water comes out of all of them.
> 
> Sticking my fingers over the central holes, water does then come out elsewhere at a reduced rate (not to be done when at fully temperature haha)


When i dispense using manual release i find that the water is mainly central with some flow at the edges and as you say it doesn't seem to come out all of them. However, it may be different in auto brew mode and that we can't see.

I find that the machine extracts evenly every time whether the filter is pre wet or not and over a wide weight of coffee from 12g to 70g. Like Gary i just give a shake to evenly distribute the coffee. With respect, i don't think there is any problem with regard to channelling and divots unless your machine is faulty in some way. Close inspection of the post brew coffee bed shows all coffee saturated and some small indentation marks. I grind my coffee in the hand grinder then empty it into the filter unless there is more than 50g when i empty it into a cup and then grind the rest and throw it all in. Makes no difference.


----------



## Step21

Mike mc said:


> Just recieved mine.looks like I'll be sending it back as the LCD display is full of scratches and also the casing


That's a shame. I'm sure it will be sorted asap.


----------



## MWJB

Bunn invented the fluted, flat bottomed filters.


----------



## Behmor

The flow changes when the basket is in place. It's thermal dynamics at play because the environment changes from closed (high heat) to more open/ cool



robashton said:


> Okay - I've started getting a much better extraction on the behmor now, and it's all down to how I get the coffee into the filter.
> 
> As stated previously I keep getting divots, and when they turn up they correspond to a rubbish cup of coffee (I can tell if there are going to be huge divots just by tasting the coffee).
> 
> As a result I've been able to back down to 28g of coffee and get a reasonable cup of coffee (even with Assbeck).
> 
> Grinding directly into the filter is a huge mess, and needs me to tap it until roughly level - this has a huge effect and generally means divots appear, presumably because of the lovely level bed which the shower screen (which mostly comes from the middle) loves to push right through.
> 
> Grinding into a container and then dumping it in the filter and then tapping until level has the same effect.
> 
> If I grind into one of my stainless steel milk jugs and then evenly distribute into the filter and therefore don't need to level then I don't get divots - presumably because of science of some sort.
> 
> First time I did this with 32g of coffee I got waaaay too strong a brew, for a change I was relieved about that fact though.
> 
> [edit]
> 
> It doesn't seem right that so much water comes out those central holes and none of the surrounding ones, can somebody else check and look at how theirs distributes?


----------



## Behmor

Make sure they removed the plastic film. Have seen in cases it was left on and it gave a false appearance. Could not be the case with you but something to consider. Also if you could send photos that would be great for QC team



Mike mc said:


> Just recieved mine.looks like I'll be sending it back as the LCD display is full of scratches and also the casing


----------



## Mike mc

Thanks for the reply.the supplier is sorting a replacement.casing also has scratches so I'm guessing it's from the factory


----------



## NickdeBug

Step21 said:


> Plus some expensive shipping costs from the US. They look remarkably like the Kalita wave filters! It would be interesting to find what sort of flavour they impart compared to other filters.


Price was inclusive of shipping. Seems to have gone up to £22 now.


----------



## garydyke1

Step21 said:


> When i dispense using manual release i find that the water is mainly central with some flow at the edges and as you say it doesn't seem to come out all of them. However, it may be different in auto brew mode and that we can't see.
> 
> I find that the machine extracts evenly every time whether the filter is pre wet or not and over a wide weight of coffee from 12g to 70g. Like Gary i just give a shake to evenly distribute the coffee. With respect, i don't think there is any problem with regard to channelling and divots unless your machine is faulty in some way. Close inspection of the post brew coffee bed shows all coffee saturated and some small indentation marks. I grind my coffee in the hand grinder then empty it into the filter unless there is more than 50g when i empty it into a cup and then grind the rest and throw it all in. Makes no difference.


Could it be that the exit hole, being central, drawing the liquid (think plug in the bath swirling) , creates the impression that divots are in the middle?


----------



## robashton

garydyke1 said:


> Could it be that the exit hole, being central, drawing the liquid (think plug in the bath swirling) , creates the impression that divots are in the middle?


They're pretty hefty divots, I can see the paper through them and there are usually four of them.

I'll waste some coffee and take a picture of my post-brew bed using the grind into basket direct method


----------



## robashton

Also it's pretty telling that I can tell the different in flavour (massively) when it happens vs when it doesn't happen - whatever causes it, either bad prep or water.

I'm sure it's bad prep, but given how easy everybody else is finding it, it's deeply frustrating and I've wasted a lot of coffee on this.


----------



## robashton

Given that the whole purpose of having a shower screen is to avoid screwing up the brew bed and all.


----------



## garydyke1

Was talking to Spence the other day and we both commented on the fact that neither of us had any sink brews with it, not one.


----------



## robashton

Most of mine have been sink brews.

I am pretty much exactly where you are on the EK dial using a similar amount of coffee (albeit I've up-dosed to compensate for water - apart from the cases where I've used the roastery stuff.

When there are huge divots, the coffee has tasted awful, where there are not, the coffee has tasted rich and lovely, where there are not and i've used roastery water it has been amazing.

Looking at Amazon reviews I'm not the only one annoyed with their shower screen.


----------



## froggystyle

I get two or three of the spots you mention, not very deep but they are there, will take some pics in the morning to compare.


----------



## robashton

My last three attempts with stale coffee (not wishing to waste the good stuff I have left) have resulted in wonderfully flat beds - I give up


----------



## robashton

And it tastes pretty good despite staleness


----------



## Step21

garydyke1 said:


> Was talking to Spence the other day and we both commented on the fact that neither of us had any sink brews with it, not one.


Absolutely, me neither. I have under extracted a couple of times due to filter collapse at edges (TDS 0.99%) but it's an even under extraction and still tastes nice & sweet if weak. Not once had any nasty flavours so far.


----------



## Step21

froggystyle said:


> I get two or three of the spots you mention, not very deep but they are there, will take some pics in the morning to compare.


I also get 3 or 4 central indentations which are not deep at all. If you can see the filter through them i'd be worried about the unit not working correctly.


----------



## robashton

Since forcing water through the other holes, I've noticed more water coming through the holes - could this be related to my weird tastes for the first dozen rinses maybe? :/


----------



## garydyke1

Perhaps Joe will comment if he feels something isn't right with the unit.


----------



## Step21

robashton said:


> My last three attempts with stale coffee (not wishing to waste the good stuff I have left) have resulted in wonderfully flat beds - I give up


Can the freshness of the coffee effect how the shower screen operates? I did notice earlier that Joe Behmor was suggesting long pre soak times for very fresh coffee up to 3 days post roast (2mins ish) coming down to 45secs for less fresh coffee. I've never tried more than 45secs (as i've not had coffee that fresh available).

What were the stats for these brews that were good? Amount of coffee/pre soak time/brew temp/filter used. Any differences in these parameters for the fresh coffee compared to the stale?


----------



## robashton

It's a good question, I've been operating at 45s pre soak for most of my several day old coffee, and when I was using fresh coffee at the very very start I was running too hot (although I had a 1.30 soak then)


----------



## Step21

MWJB said:


> Bunn invented the fluted, flat bottomed filters.


Any chance of HasBean stocking them in the future Gary?


----------



## Step21

robashton said:


> Since forcing water through the other holes, I've noticed more water coming through the holes - could this be related to my weird tastes for the first dozen rinses maybe? :/


How did you manage to force water through the other holes?


----------



## robashton

I temporarily blocked the central ones to see how the other holes would operate


----------



## garydyke1

Step21 said:


> Any chance of HasBean stocking them in the future Gary?


Doubt it, given the success we've had with the Kalita's.


----------



## Step21

robashton said:


> I temporarily blocked the central ones to see how the other holes would operate


How did you block them?


----------



## robashton

With my fingers


----------



## Nimble Motionists

Really pleasantly surprised with the Brazen. Was a slightly skeptic 'curiosity purchase' but looks like it will probably replace manual brew at home - very jealous of those with bosses amenable to one of these sitting in the office!!

I was all out of fresh coffee when it arrived so started it off on some stuff that was way past its best (and wasn't really to my taste hence sitting in the cupboard half-finished for a few months..) and the Brazen performed admirably. Got some very decent cups out of the old bags but opened up this month's SSSS today and without any tinkering (I've stuck with 202 farenheit, 45 secs pre-soak and my usual kalita grind) produced some of the best brewed coffee I've had at home.

Getting really balanced brews with distinct combinations of flavours where with a lot of manual brews they might occasionally end up a bit one-dimensional or sour/astringent. Working hypothesis is that the major factor here is temperature as previously I've just been using a standard kettle transferring into a Hario Buono. Looking forward to experimenting more with pre-soak, grind & temp.


----------



## robashton

Another good coffee this morning - decided to use a bit of roastery with the assbeck and use a sensible dose of coffee (28g) and not mess with the grounds at all once carefully added to filter - result: Tasty cup of coffee (given that this is a washed caturra/catuia from guatemala it's surprisingly delish).

So there you go - maybe yesterday marks the day where it all starts going well for me. Have decided to order in Waitrose water for next week, my plans for the weekend/weekstart fell through so I've got some extra coffee days to play with.


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> decided to use a bit of roastery with the assbeck


Thats cheating


----------



## robashton

garydyke1 said:


> Thats cheating


Figured as I seem to have sorted my mangled bed issues it was worth spending a bit of water on it (I've not been using it because results have been so woefully inconsistent).

I ended up drinking the whole jug of coffee. I wish I had some more good stuff lying around, I am very much out of fresh coffee.


----------



## garydyke1

will test these filtra flat round papers which fold and fit quite well


----------



## garydyke1




----------



## froggystyle

Forgot beans for work today, only had enough left for a V60 (15g) am sitting here now with a sad face, i can see why buying this machine was a great idea, the manual method is great if you have the skill and time to get it right, i rushed it a little and its the worst cup of coffee i have had for a few weeks now as it tastes weak, cant wait for monday to get fresh beans back into the Brazen.


----------



## robashton

Seems a bit of a faff


----------



## froggystyle

garydyke1 said:


> View attachment 15826


I was never any good at origami!


----------



## jlarkin

garydyke1 said:


> View attachment 15826


you've murdered that filter paper


----------



## garydyke1

it works v well. Water pushes it outwards and it holds shape


----------



## DoubleShot

Filtra flat round papers or Kalita 185?

Guess it depends on ones origami skills?


----------



## garydyke1

DoubleShot said:


> Filtra flat round papers or Kalita 185?
> 
> Guess it depends on ones origami skills?


Flat round. They are only £1 per pack . If they work as well as hoped , a bargain


----------



## funinacup

Marco pourover filters too big for this?


----------



## garydyke1

funinacup said:


> Marco pourover filters too big for this?


Slightly , yes : (


----------



## jeebsy

What's wrong with the Kalita?


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> What's wrong with the Kalita?


Absolutely nowt. People have concerns about the height of the papers when its brewing the full 1200ml @>60g/litre. I have shops doing that without issue though (albeit at 50g/litre)


----------



## robashton

Just did this weeks IMM in there, ashbeck, 30g/500g - pretty much perfect if you accept that waitrose would be better

Another mostly level bed, no wonky flavours - more of this and I'll stop complaining..


----------



## KrisP

Is there a minimum brew volume with this machine?


----------



## Mrboots2u

robashton said:


> Just did this weeks IMM in there, ashbeck, 30g/500g - pretty much perfect if you accept that waitrose would be better
> 
> Another mostly level bed, no wonky flavours - more of this and I'll stop complaining..


Which filter combo?

Where on ek ?


----------



## robashton

Kalita, 5.5 on classic dial - could have probably gone a bit lower on dose now the euphoria at getting a half decent extraction has subsided, the coffee cooled and taste buds fully engaged


----------



## robashton

Down to 28g, right strength, over extracted slightly (delish tho)

either need to coarsen up or reduce pre soak (upped this to 1.30 cos super fresh coffee based on what joe said, but probsbly needs to back down again - one change at a time tho)

think im getting a handle on this.


----------



## robashton

And another almost perfect cup, coarsened up a little, stuck at 28g to 500g, pre-soak at 1min - I've got this natural from Pilon in there and it's almost bang on.

If I make it through this week without a bad cup from the Behmor then I'll call everything else teething issues.


----------



## funinacup

Liking the sound of this little brewer.


----------



## robashton

Once broken in (I swear mine must have been gunky or something), it definitely takes the human element out of the equation for a decent pourover brew.

I have confidence that if I was to stick this coffee through again with the same settings that it'd come out tasting the same again (And I probably will - without a refractometer it's hard to work out just from taste what I'd improve with this brew). Pretty sure the Refrac + Brazen is the perfect pairing.


----------



## Xpenno

funinacup said:


> Liking the sound of this little brewer.


It's very good! I'm thinking about getting another one. Mine is at work and I can't be arsed to bring it home over the weekend, it just makes everything so easy!


----------



## KrisP

How do the results from this compare to other manual brew methods in terms of body? I find the V60 a little thin.


----------



## garydyke1

KrisP said:


> How do the results from this compare to other manual brew methods in terms of body? I find the V60 a little thin.


You control body by the amount of coffee you use and the ratio against water.


----------



## garydyke1

To answer concerns around brewing only a single cup worth, using a Kalita 185 paper

13g 9 on 3FE dial / 250g / 93c / 30 sec presoak.

My guess around 19-20% EY


----------



## garydyke1

perfect flat, level bed .


----------



## jlarkin

Tasty? What's 9 on 3FE for other brewing methods?


----------



## jlarkin

Does anybody want to try some Bunn papers (maybe up to 5 peoples)? They're not quite the right size, I did a quick check and went for it but they very slightly sit over the height of the basket. First time I had Filter Flop but the second and third time I wet the filter and pressed it into the basket and it did the trick. I'm pretty happy with them, not sure they are an improvement on the Kalita but might be. Only issue, if anybody wants to try em, how to fold them to send in the post? I'd prefer not to have to find little boxes for them...


----------



## garydyke1

jlarkin said:


> Tasty? What's 9 on 3FE for other brewing methods?


Of course.

I use a similar setting for Chemex


----------



## Hairy_Hogg

Sorry to appear dim, but where are people sourcing these from in the UK please?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Hairy_Hogg said:


> Sorry to appear dim, but where are people sourcing these from in the UK please?


http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/behmor-brazen-plus-brew-system


----------



## Wuyang

Say I want to make just one decent sized mug of coffee in the brazen.....around 350ml.....will it handle this ok and produce a good quality cup or are you better advised to brew the full amount?


----------



## jlarkin

Wuyang said:


> Say I want to make just one decent sized mug of coffee in the brazen.....around 350ml.....will it handle this ok and produce a good quality cup or are you better advised to brew the full amount?


Gary did even less and said it was good



garydyke1 said:


> To answer concerns around brewing only a single cup worth, using a Kalita 185 paper
> 
> 13g 9 on 3FE dial / 250g / 93c / 30 sec presoak.
> 
> My guess around 19-20% EY


----------



## garydyke1

Wuyang said:


> Say I want to make just one decent sized mug of coffee in the brazen.....around 350ml.....will it handle this ok and produce a good quality cup or are you better advised to brew the full amount?


It will handle that fine


----------



## robashton

What does your pre-soak burn-down look like Gary? I started at 1:30 with super fresh coffee, down to 1 min over the next couple of days and now I'm on 30s a week later - is it really this fast?? (This is by taste, if it's a bit dry I back off a little, this morning I backed off and up-dosed slightly - natural pacamara so it's a bit weird to dial in anyway)


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> What does your pre-soak burn-down look like Gary? I started at 1:30 with super fresh coffee, down to 1 min over the next couple of days and now I'm on 30s a week later - is it really this fast?? (This is by taste, if it's a bit dry I back off a little, this morning I backed off and up-dosed slightly - natural pacamara so it's a bit weird to dial in anyway)


45 secs for fresh (sub 5 days)

30 secs for rested


----------



## Yes Row

My handle in the filter has broken, one of the little lugs that fits into the basket, has come off after about 10 brews. This makes getting it out of the holder a pain. Anybody else had this problem?


----------



## garydyke1

Yes Row said:


> My handle in the filter has broken, one of the little lugs that fits into the basket, has come off after about 10 brews. This makes getting it out of the holder a pain. Anybody else had this problem?


I dont use the filter holder anymore so wouldn't know.


----------



## garydyke1

Yes Row said:


> My handle in the filter has broken, one of the little lugs that fits into the basket, has come off after about 10 brews. This makes getting it out of the holder a pain. Anybody else had this problem?


PM me your address and ill send you a replacement


----------



## Mike mc

Made a few brews with the brazen now but keep noticing holes in the coffee bed.this didn't use to happen with the moccamaster I had.

Do I need to grind finer? Tried it slightly finer and didn't seem to improve the holes


----------



## froggystyle

Tipped mine upside down this morning to look at where the water comes out, seems mine is holding water somewhere in the upper body as it poured out the casing, unplugged it quick and will need to have a look as not sure why it would hold water?


----------



## robashton

They're not holes - they're just disturbance (I still get this on my good brews)

Holes are where you can see the filter really clearly in a couple of places, wish I'd taken a picture while that was still happenning!


----------



## garydyke1

Mike mc said:


> Made a few brews with the brazen now but keep noticing holes in the coffee bed.this didn't use to happen with the moccamaster I had.
> 
> Do I need to grind finer? Tried it slightly finer and didn't seem to improve the holes


You might be grinding too fine.


----------



## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> Tipped mine upside down this morning to look at where the water comes out, seems mine is holding water somewhere in the upper body as it poured out the casing, unplugged it quick and will need to have a look as not sure why it would hold water?


You'll get a bit which condenses . Its nothing to worry about


----------



## Mike mc

garydyke1 said:


> You might be grinding too fine.


I will try it coarser tomorrow and see what happens


----------



## garydyke1

Mike mc said:


> I will try it coarser tomorrow and see what happens


Let taste guide you rather than watching the grinds


----------



## jlarkin

Why is it that the coffee tastes different after sitting in the jug coffee a while? I usually pour one straightaway feed our little girl and come back for a second after an hour or more. The temperature is usually still OK but it generally seems flatter in taste to me.

Nothing against the Brazen as such, just interested if other people find this or if it's understood what's occurring?


----------



## jeebsy

Can't comment on the Brazen but i find coffee better when it cools - don't mind drinking the dregs of a Chemex at room temp at all. As the cuppings showed, coffee being hot is a great leveller.


----------



## froggystyle

Agreed with Jeebsy, i find the second cup from the brazen better, moorish if that's the right word!


----------



## froggystyle

Think mine is broke!

It appears to be boiling as you can hear it and water fizzes out the seal round the lid on top, but the temp is only reading 85 max, then drops down a few degrees, then goes back up to 85...

Sad face!


----------



## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> Think mine is broke!
> 
> It appears to be boiling as you can hear it and water fizzes out the seal round the lid on top, but the temp is only reading 85 max, then drops down a few degrees, then goes back up to 85...
> 
> Sad face!


Have you descaled the temp sensor ?


----------



## froggystyle

garydyke1 said:


> Have you descaled the temp sensor ?


Good point, ill give it a clean!


----------



## garydyke1

froggystyle said:


> Good point, ill give it a clean!


The symptoms you're having are what I had with my Bonavita. It just needed some citric acid lovin'


----------



## jlarkin

garydyke1 said:


> The symptoms you're having are what I had with my Bonavita. It just needed some citric acid lovin'


that sounds so wrong and yet it's clean (literally, figuratively etc.)


----------



## froggystyle

Let the tank soak in citric and give it a scrub out, then empty out the top i guess?


----------



## garydyke1

I think an easier solution (hur hur) would be to run the calibration mode but with 2 tablespoons of citric acid thrown in . Then a further couple with just very very soft water to flush the lemonade-iness away


----------



## robashton

!!!!!!!! I wish to report a great success.

Two week old coffee, 25s pre-soak, updosed to 30g for 500ml and SUCH FRUIT and NO DRYNESS - I was not expecting this. Agh.

(that pulped natural from petrona again)

Love this thing.


----------



## robashton

garydyke1 said:


> I think an easier solution (hur hur) would be to run the calibration mode but with 2 tablespoons of citric acid thrown in . Then a further couple with just very very soft water to flush the lemonade-iness away


Don't the instructions say "don't do this"


----------



## garydyke1

robashton said:


> Don't the instructions say "don't do this"


The thing comes with instructions?!


----------



## froggystyle

ahh yes i have some i think in my drawer at work, must actually do the non male thing and read them.


----------



## garydyke1

I did it on mine and it didn't blow up


----------



## robashton

garydyke1 said:


> The thing comes with instructions?!


I read something!! Somewhere! I can't remember where! Maybe I imagined it!


----------



## robashton

By the way, I just downed half a litre of coffee in about 5 minutes - I don't do that very often...


----------



## froggystyle

It says its ok to do what Gary mentioned.


----------



## robashton

Oh cool - I must have mis-read whatever it is that I read!


----------



## robashton

Right, I have a bloody refract and my last few behmors have been between 21 and 22% - that's about right.. right? I guess its doing its job okay.

So who wants to buy a refrac?*

*kidding, I have to sit there and do spro next


----------



## Mrboots2u

robashton said:


> Right, I have a bloody refract and my last few behmors have been between 21 and 22% - that's about right.. right? I guess its doing its job okay.


Its right , if it tastes good. Push it a bit more see if it tastes even better

Or not ....

Your nominal nom may/will be different to others


----------



## robashton

I think I'm probably at the limit with those coffees, and while I'm not going to bother doing it - I can say I had a longer pre-soak before and they were pretty meh and got a bit dry (they're over two weeks old now) (Would hazard a guess that'd be a higher EY..). Tasted great and I drank the lot so..

I don't really care about the number so long as it's in a ballpark.

Going to do this week's IMM with a longer pre-soak though and see where that comes out at - it should be a lot more flexible, it's good to put numbers on taste finally and know that I'm hitting something roughly "right".

Espresso is what I'm really interested in looking at, as I want to put numbers against the experiences I've had so far - but that can wait until the weekend


----------



## Mrboots2u

Make drink- taste -evaluate - score - then refract and look at the numbers objectively , after you have tasted ...


----------



## robashton

Well so far I'm only using it on recipes that I've already established are the best I've managed to get taste-wise - I'll have to go back and re-visit stuff that didn't work so well to work out what that was all about (again at the weekend probably)


----------



## robashton

If I want to increase EY what's the best way to attain this? I probably can't grind too much finer or I'll get divots, up the temp?


----------



## Mrboots2u

robashton said:


> If I want to increase EY what's the best way to attain this? I probably can't grind too much finer or I'll get divots, up the temp?


You can simply put more water through ( or decrease the dose ) .

this will increase EY but at the expense of strength ....

do you have , are you using coffee tools >


----------



## MWJB

Grind finer &/or lower brew ratio.


----------



## robashton

Mrboots2u said:


> You can simply put more water through ( or decrease the dose ) .
> 
> this will increase EY but at the expense of strength ....
> 
> do you have , are you using coffee tools >


TDS is hitting 1.3-1.4 so I guess I could stand to lose some.

i bought the refrac from HB which stated that it came with coffee tools for mac/windows with instructions for that in the box but that's a Nope so it guess the site is wrong. I'll be getting it for the android or whatever soon though, don't currently have my payment deets set up to do that.


----------



## Mrboots2u

robashton said:


> TDS is hitting 1.3-1.4 so I guess I could stand to lose some.
> 
> i bought the refrac from HB which stated that it came with coffee tools for mac/windows with instructions for that in the box but that's a Nope so it guess the site is wrong. I'll be getting it for the android or whatever soon though, don't currently have my payment deets set up to do that.


you need to go to the vst site to get it i think

from memory you mail em with a purchase order number and you get a link to download


----------



## robashton

Mrboots2u said:


> you need to go to the vst site to get it i think
> 
> from memory you mail em with a purchase order number and you get a link to download


Ugh, effort


----------



## Mrboots2u

robashton said:


> Ugh, effort


Urgh lazy.....


----------



## robashton

Guilty


----------



## jlarkin

Mrboots2u said:


> you need to go to the vst site to get it i think
> 
> from memory you mail em with a purchase order number and you get a link to download


Agree with MrB2U. Although think you can just forward them your order email from HasBean + a PIC of the box that has serial number on. Think that's what I did



robashton said:


> Ugh, effort


----------



## robashton

Aight, well I've e-mailed them asking what's the craic, it'd be handy rather than doing the calcs manually.

Gonna fine my grind up just very slightly and drop dose a little, I guess it's time to do this bit of the journey like the rest of you did in that boffin thread yonks ago..


----------



## jeebsy

robashton said:


> If I want to increase EY what's the best way to attain this? I probably can't grind too much finer or I'll get divots, up the temp?


I have a word document compiled of quotes (from mwjb mainly) on this subject, I'll send you it over once it's been edited


----------



## robashton

jeebsy said:


> I have a word document compiled of quotes (from mwjb mainly) on this subject, I'll send you it over once it's been edited


Ta - I've been through most of the boffin history but there's a lot of catch-up to play here - it'd be appreciated.


----------



## Mrboots2u

robashton said:


> Aight, well I've e-mailed them asking what's the craic, it'd be handy rather than doing the calcs manually.
> 
> Gonna fine my grind up just very slightly and drop dose a little, I guess it's time to do this bit of the journey like the rest of you did in that boffin thread yonks ago..


coffee tools takes " other things" into account

Calculating manually is only ball park


----------



## robashton

Yeh, I got that - I've also read about water left in the grinds, brew vs immersion etc

The e-mail has been sent, I'd prefer it on my android but until I sort google wallet out that'll have to wait. (Actually I'd prefer it on the iPad, but it's £80!)


----------



## jlarkin

jeebsy said:


> I have a word document compiled of quotes (from mwjb mainly) on this subject, I'll send you it over once it's been edited


I'd love to have that if possible? Promise I'll never mention the D word again


----------



## robashton

Oh - those VST chaps are fast at replying, although spelling it "Windoze" gets a huge black mark off me..


----------



## robashton

And I have coffee tools, I was pretty much bang on with my calculations earlier (I assumed a LRR of about 2.1 and indeed, weighing the retained grounds gave me that kinda figure)

So my last guat was at 21%, if I want to bump this up to 24% (hypothetically, I probably wouldn't but it's always worth a shot right?), I'm best off going with a lower dose of coffee and playing games to eek that out.

I can see with this designery thing that there is a happy path to maximise the chances of falling inside a that magic box, but I've also seen you EK owners push out of the box into "dangerzone this might be bitter" so best take designery tools with a pinch of salt EY?

See what I did there, I used EY but it wasn't the acronym.


----------



## robashton

I can also see how the behmor pretty much will always lead me to that happy path at my current settings, that's kinda nice to know.


----------



## Mrboots2u

might be worth splitting this of into another thread now

Its nowt to do with the Brazen


----------



## jeebsy

Into the boffin thread with you now you have your VST and lab coat


----------



## Step21

Where do you get these citric acid granules? Pharmacy?

My Brazen doesn't need it yet but i'd like to get some in for readiness. Just a few white mineral type deposit specs visible in the kettle chamber. So probably a little way off yet. Manual suggests a quarterly descale.


----------



## DoubleShot

Step21 said:


> Where do you get these citric acid granules?


1kg tub for £4.50 delivered from eBay.


----------



## Wuyang

Now you've all had your brazens a while I was wondering if you have any tips for new owners

I ordered mine yesterday and have also signed up to hasbeans weekly filter bean subscription which I should be delivered on Saturday.

The brazen will be paired with the Lido 3. I'm currently using the clever dripper and generally only brew enough for one person.

Thanks


----------



## Obsy

I follow Gary's method (garyzen?) of 93 degrees and 30 sec pre infusion for rested coffee, 45 sec for fresh (sub 5 days). As for a recipe, I experiment with dose and water. The beauty of the Brazen is it's so forgiving and I've not had an undrinkable brew yet. Play around with ratios and see what suits your tastes. Fab bit of kit. Enjoy


----------



## Step21

Wuyang said:


> Now you've all had your brazens a while I was wondering if you have any tips for new owners
> 
> I ordered mine yesterday and have also signed up to hasbeans weekly filter bean subscription which I should be delivered on Saturday.
> 
> The brazen will be paired with the Lido 3. I'm currently using the clever dripper and generally only brew enough for one person.
> 
> Thanks


Make sure you give everything a good soapy wash (especially the carafe) before use and follow the calibration procedure.

Use Kalita wave 185 paper filters (good for all but the largest sizes of brew)

Experiment with temp & pre soak times - they have a big effect on the resulting brew (especially for smaller brews).

Change grind according to brew size (finer for smaller, incrementally coarser for larger brews).

Smaller brews (250ml) are a bit harder to get right than 500/750/1 litre etc...

For small brews i tend to use a fine drip grind and a long pre soak. Otherwise you may get weaker brews. The difference between a 30sec pre soak and a 1min 30 can be considerable. I also find that i use a slightly larger brew ratio for the smaller brew (59/60g p/litre).

My current preference is for 204F (you can set either celsuis or farenheit as your chosen unit - farenheit gives smaller adjustments) and for fresh beans like the Hasbean IMM i use 1min 30sec presoak.

I pre wet the filter by sitting it over the filter holder and pour boiling water into it. I then put it in position and set the carafe under it (this pre warms the carafe). Take the filter back out (get rid of any drips) and put the coffee in giving a good shake to evenly disperse. Don't use a dry filter for a small brew as there is insufficient coffee to keep the edges of the filter from collapsing inwards covering some of the coffee and giving a poor extraction - when pre wet the filter holds the shape.

Once the brew is going i leave the carafe out until 5 secs before the pre soak finishes then insert it. I find this works well for small brews.

Also consider using the Brazen as a PID kettle for your Clever. Set it at max temp (208F) and release the water into the Clever sat below, add coffee and brew. This works great for my Bonavita.

The great news is that pretty much anything that comes out the Brazen is very drinkable. I aim for a TDS of around 1.3% for my brews and adjust variables to suit.


----------



## Wuyang

Thanks for the pointers....love this site.


----------



## craig01nire

Hopefully someone will be able to help me with what I think in a shower screen problem.

I got my brazen yesterday and have been playing about with it a bit. Have only done a few brews in it but it seems that quite a lot of of the water is coming out of the right hand side of the shower screen. This is happening on the manual release and when I pull out the filter after a brew the grounds are quite uneven, almost sloping down to the right. ive tried to take a picture but it's quite hard to see. The second one I've dug a hole on the left and right hand side to try and show the difference in depth

















Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## robashton

Crack the spirit level out?

other than that, make sure there are no blockages - I had a hell of a time with my shower screen until I gave it a good clean at the start


----------



## craig01nire

I just had a go with the spirit level there - seems to be ever so slightly off actually! Put a folded business card under the right hand side there and the next bed of grounds was more even if not slightly sloped to the left this time. Trying to find the right balance now and hopefully that's it.

Im surprised that it made that big a difference being a tiny bit off level (but relieved if it is the issue)! Thank goodness I had some old beans lying around to have a play about with.


----------



## robashton

Having a level surface makes a huge difference to proceedings (How @jeebsy manages on a market stall I'll never know).

I've got coasters under my espresso machine to push it up an entire 5mm at the front, or all the water runs out the front half of the basket - a small gradient is amplified when running water is involved.


----------



## Wuyang

Or maybe you got a duff spirit level.....put an egg on the surface.

Got my brazen today......I've done two brews, the second I set at a lightly higher heat.......both brews were nice, but the thing is on the slightly hotter setting it started spitting hot water out of the header tank (even though the lid was fully home) towards the front of the machine onto the switches and bar. Hopefully it was human error and won't happen again.

Looking forward to my hasbean subscription, just on Taylor's lazy at the minute.


----------



## jeebsy

robashton said:


> Having a level surface makes a huge difference to proceedings (How @jeebsy manages on a market stall I'll never know).


the OCD barista's tooklit:

  IMAG2048 by wjheenan, on Flickr

and bits of stripwood:

  IMG_20150824_090158 by wjheenan, on Flickr


----------



## Sk8-bizarre

That Jenga stacking in the middle rocks my boat.

It's like building ghetto style skate spots outta pallets and bits.... Next challenge a

choppy channel crossing perhaps?

Skills man.


----------



## Obsy

Loving the OCD toolkit for baristas


----------



## Wuyang

Nice Screwdrivers.


----------



## jeebsy

Sk8-bizarre said:


> That Jenga stacking in the middle rocks my boat.
> 
> It's like building ghetto style skate spots outta pallets and bits.... Next challenge a
> 
> choppy channel crossing perhaps?
> 
> Skills man.


For some reason it was really wonky that day. Working inside on level services is a godsend


----------



## Wuyang

Can somebody do a check for me please. I've just fired up the brazen at 204f and once the temp gets near that point it starts releasing steam and spitting water through the lid seal down onto the buttons and digital screen, it's not a massive amount, but enough to cause concern. This was using 900ml. It's the second time in a row it's done it.

Thanks


----------



## craig01nire

Mine done the same thing when calibrating. There was only around 500ml in the resevoir but I'd assume it was going closer to boiling point. I done a few experimental brews at 96c (which I think is in and around 204f) last night and there was no steam etc coming through the lid, only 500ml in the machine though.


----------



## Wuyang

Contacted behmor about the issue.


----------



## Step21

Occasionally, i do get a few drips coming out of the lid at similar places. This seems to happen well into a brew when the kettle part is reheating the water to keep it a temp. I've never had as much water come out as in your picture. A couple of times a few drips have come over the front and down over the front but i don't think it's anything to worry about.

All the same i tend to watch over the machine as it brews.

I'd carry on using it keeping a paper towel handy.


----------



## Wuyang

Reset the the calibration this morning.........water spitting out........worse it's been, then strangely the next two times I've used it for a brew not a drop....fingers crossed.

Ideally I don't want to stand over it just in case of rogue drops of water. Pretty sure Behmor will sort me out....seem to have a very good reputation. Other than that I'm loving it.


----------



## DoubleShot

Tasted brewed coffee from one of these for the first time yesterday. Minimal faff and tasty too. What's not to like?

Just as well I am the latest owner of one! 

Big up to the main man @garydyke1 for making it all possible for all of us @Behmor Brazen Plus owners. ?


----------



## Wuyang

Two questions....

1, How long to ideally leave freshly roasted beans to rest before using in filter/ brazen?

2, If anybody has a lido3 grinder what setting do you grind at for the brazen? I'm just at one full turn at the moment, haven't tried altering it yet.

thanks


----------



## Beeroclock

Hi All

thinking of buying a Brazen for work (have a Mazzer Super Jolly) any tips to grind settings on the SJ - indeed is it suitable for a brew machine.

Hi Wuyang - the guys I spoke to at Extract said that if you're brewing - coffee should be as fresh as possible (happy to stand corrected here) and that resting/degassing only necessary when using espresso method of extraction...

thanks Philip


----------



## jlarkin

Agree you can use coffee as soon as you want after roasting with brewed methods.


----------



## robashton

*can* isn't the same as should though.

Some beans just start tasting great after a few days rest on filter too


----------



## Obsy

It's all a matter of taste. What one of us finds tasty, the next may not. Experiment with the kit and find out what works for you and your palate, then play around to enhance it


----------



## DoubleShot

Right, unboxed mine and given all removal parts a clean with hot soapy water (minimum three times on each, can never be too clean imo, lol!)

How are peeps cleaning the top reservoir section? I'm just going to pour in some boiling hot (filtered) water then rinse/swirl before tipping it down the sink.


----------



## froggystyle

Rinse, tip away then run the calibration!


----------



## DoubleShot

Yup, next step is calibration. I checked my altitude above sea level online.


----------



## Wuyang

Can somebody do a check for me please. I've just fired up the brazen at 204f and once the temp gets near that point it starts releasing steam and spitting water through the lid seal down onto the buttons and digital screen, it's not a massive amount, but enough to cause concern. This was using 900ml. It's the second time in a row it's done it.

Thanks..

*********Update. It's looking as suspected the error was mine. I set the machine up using the QuickStart guide. I put the lid on automatically when calibrating.....(doesn't mention leaving it off in the QuickStart instructions). I have since re calibrated with the lid off and things seem as they should be.

**********


----------



## garydyke1

Wuyang said:


> Can somebody do a check for me please. I've just fired up the brazen at 204f and once the temp gets near that point it starts releasing steam and spitting water through the lid seal down onto the buttons and digital screen, it's not a massive amount, but enough to cause concern. This was using 900ml. It's the second time in a row it's done it.
> 
> Thanks..
> 
> *********Update. It's looking as suspected the error was mine. I set the machine up using the QuickStart guide. I put the lid on automatically when calibrating.....(doesn't mention leaving it off in the QuickStart instructions). I have since re calibrated with the lid off and things seem as they should be.
> 
> **********


Yeah , that'll do it.

Boiling water + Steam + nowhere to go = pressure = bad for calibration etc


----------



## MarkyP

I've just cleaned mine and calibrated, what's the recommended dose and grind level as a starting point?

I'm completely new to this brewing lark!!!


----------



## robashton

MarkyP said:


> I've just cleaned mine and calibrated, what's the recommended dose and grind level as a starting point?
> 
> I'm completely new to this brewing lark!!!


Think pourover, coarse sand (but not french press coarse).

Stick to the standard 60g a litre to start with (divide up and down), see how it tastes and adjust. (I'm at about 5.5 on my classic EK dial)


----------



## MarkyP

robashton said:


> Think pourover, coarse sand (but not french press coarse).
> 
> Stick to the standard 60g a litre to start with (divide up and down), see how it tastes and adjust. (I'm at about 5.5 on my classic EK dial)


Thanks Rob...


----------



## MarkyP

...and the results weren't particularly good - drinkable, but only just!

tried 60g into 1litre at 204 degrees with 30s infusion.

and I've just noticed my mistake - 4.5 on the EK dial - Duh!


----------



## DoubleShot

You boys with your fancy EK43's!


----------



## Wuyang

I'm doing 30g to the 900ml mark.


----------



## Yes Row

Brighton Lanes. 55g filter paper only and 1ltr water. It's the nads!


----------



## MarkyP

DoubleShot said:


> You boys with your fancy EK43's!


I know, but it still doesn't account for a donkey behind the controls!


----------



## DoubleShot

Yes Row said:


> Brighton Lanes. 55g filter paper only and 1ltr water. It's the nads!


55g of coffee to how much water?


----------



## DoubleShot

Gave mine its maiden voyage this morning.

48g HasBean El Salvador Finca Santa Petrona Pulped Natural

800ml Ashbeck bottled water

30 sec pre-soak



















NW corner of Kalita 185 filter paper dropped at some stage during the brew, causing some of the grounds finding their way into the jug. Couple divots appeared also similar to what others have posted.

What, if anything, did I do wrong or can I change to prevent this happening in future?

Thanks.


----------



## garydyke1

DoubleShot said:


> Gave mine its maiden voyage this morning.
> 
> 48g HasBean El Salvador Finca Santa Petrona Pulped Natural
> 
> 800ml Ashbeck bottled water
> 
> 30 sec pre-soak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NW corner of Kalita 185 filter paper dropped at some stage during the brew, causing some of the grounds finding their way into the jug. Couple divots appeared also similar to what others have posted.
> 
> What, if anything, did I do wrong or can I change to prevent this happening in future?
> 
> Thanks.


what did it taste like?


----------



## DoubleShot

Not as clean/crisp as same beans tasted via a CCD. Maybe too high a dosage to water ratio?


----------



## garydyke1

DoubleShot said:


> Not as clean/crisp as same beans tasted via a CCD. Maybe too high a dosage to water ratio?


I find 52.5-55g/litre best .

If the filter doesnt hold its shape you have an issue.

Take a picture of the grinds in the filter before it brews


----------



## DoubleShot

Will try that next time and post back if similar thing happens regarding filter dropping/collapsing in one corner/side.


----------



## Wuyang

When I look at other peoples grinds after the brew it looks like I'm grinding slightly coarser. Others look more wet muddy on top.

No big drain holes in mine.....

Second pic shows dry grind next to fine sea salt.


----------



## DoubleShot

Table salt course?


----------



## Yes Row

DoubleShot said:


> 55g of coffee to how much water?


As per post, 1ltr


----------



## DoubleShot

@Wuyang

How did yours taste?

Your grounds do look courser than what mine did earlier but that's not to say mine is right and yours isn't. Maybe one of the seasoned Brazen owners could comment?


----------



## Wuyang

Doubleshot........it tastes real nice...juicy and flavour full......13 marks on the lido 3......, also had it a bit coarser than this and it still tasted good.


----------



## garydyke1

Wuyang said:


> When I look at other peoples grinds after the brew it looks like I'm grinding slightly coarser. Others look more wet muddy on top.
> 
> No big drain holes in mine.....
> 
> Second pic shows dry grind next to fine sea salt.


Thats a textbook brew


----------



## NickdeBug

Interesting. That looks way coarser than I have been using.

Anyone care to offer a suggestion for setting on a Feldgrind?

Cheers

Nick


----------



## jlarkin

garydyke1 said:


> Thats a textbook brew


Damn, now I have to put salt in it?


----------



## jlarkin

Wuyang said:


> I'm doing 30g to the 900ml mark.


It's great if you're enjoying it - I've definitely never tried a brew with such a low ratio might have to try down dosing more.


----------



## Wuyang

jlarkin said:


> It's great if you're enjoying it - I've definitely never tried a brew with such a low ratio might have to try down dosing more.


It's crazy really.....I'm working to a tight budget at present, but managed to afford the weekly direct debit subscription filter beans from Hasbean( it's a great idea ).....£6.50/week delivered I believe. This allows me around 30g ish a day.....,,,,luckily the ratio works for me.


----------



## Step21

garydyke1 said:


> I find 52.5-55g/litre best .
> 
> If the filter doesnt hold its shape you have an issue.
> 
> Take a picture of the grinds in the filter before it brews


Remember Gary is using an EK for that ratio. On the Hausgrind that would be too low (for me anyway). I'm generally nearer 58g/l.

You need to make sure before starting the brew that the filter is sitting absolutely centrally in the basket with the coffee evenly spread. If it's not evenly spread you will get collapsing corners. The height of the filter should be the same all the way round the perimeter of the basket before and after. The other thing to check is that the machine is on a level surface with a spirit level.


----------



## Step21

NickdeBug said:


> Interesting. That looks way coarser than I have been using.
> 
> Anyone care to offer a suggestion for setting on a Feldgrind?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Nick


There is no right or wrong grind setting other than what tastes good for you. I find with the Brazen, just like any other pour over method, it depends on the solubility of the coffee and the size of brew (and also the pre soak time/brew temp you select).

My initial shot with the Hausgrind (same as Feldgrind i think) for most coffees for say a 500ml brew would be around 58g/l and 1.5 or 1.6 on the dial. Usually i use 203/204F and a 1min pre soak. Then i tweak it from there. If going for a 1 litre brew i'd go coarser to 1.7/1.8 (which looks to me to be similar to what wuyang's grind pictures show).


----------



## DoubleShot

Mine doesn't seem to keep the correct time. I've set it maybe three or four times. Return hours later and it's way off. Anyone else had this issue?


----------



## Mike mc

DoubleShot said:


> Mine doesn't seem to keep the correct time. I've set it maybe three or four times. Return hours later and it's way off. Anyone else had this issue?


Mine keeps resetting to 12.00.Had an issue with mine not finishing the brew cycle when all the water has been used.it wouldn't switch off and kept trying to draw more water. Reset and recalibration seems to have done the trick for me for the switch off issue but clock still resets


----------



## DoubleShot

That's what mine kept doing...resetting itself to 12:00 despite me having entered the actual time. Currently mines displaying 5:48 despite the actual time being 11:54!


----------



## DoubleShot

garydyke1 said:


> I find 52.5-55g/litre best .
> 
> If the filter doesnt hold its shape you have an issue.
> 
> Take a picture of the grinds in the filter before it brews


This morning, second attempt with the Brazen

21g / 400ml (should have weighed it really) - using 52.5g/litre ratio

45 sec pre-soak

HasBean Ethiopia Shakiso Abyot Boru Washed

Went a couple of more clicks out on my Rhino v1 hand grinder.

Gluggable...just as well as it didn't stand around long! 

Before:










Immediately after (hence steam showing in photo!):










Filter kept its shape, thankfully.


----------



## garydyke1

DoubleShot said:


> This morning, second attempt with the Brazen
> 
> 21g / 400ml (should have weighed it really) - using 52.5g/litre ratio
> 
> 45 sec pre-soak
> 
> HasBean Ethiopia Shakiso Abyot Boru Washed
> 
> Went a couple of more clicks out on my Rhino v1 hand grinder.
> 
> Gluggable...just as well as it didn't stand around long!
> 
> Before:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Immediately after (hence steam showing in photo!):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Filter kept its shape, thankfully.


Text book


----------



## DoubleShot

@Mike mc

My clock is now behaving itself and displaying the correct time. Obviously an user error on my part. I set it again this morning. Once it was showing the current time, I pressed 'set' whereas before I think I continued pressing 'mode' to continue toggling between the different settings?


----------



## Nod

i am thinking of joining the Behmor gang for work. Everyone seems to be very positive about it and it looks great from the reviews. i am getting more and more people wanting coffee and, although the Kalita and bonavita kettle combo is awesome, it is now quite time consuming. My question is really... what do i do if i just want a one or two cup? Can you do 15gr or 30 gr in the Behmor? if you can it is then flexible enough for 1-5 people? Also, does anyone miss the ritual of the kalita/chemex... i have my acaia scales, grinder etc and i must admit i love the process. however, it is now getting annoying the amount of coffee i am making and this brewer would free me up to do more actual work. thanks


----------



## 4085

You can basically make any amount you want. I brew with 500 mls water to 26 gms coffee and that produces a nice large mug. I have not tried it with more than a litre but I think it goes a bit above that. You may need to buy smaller mugs of course!

I do not miss any ritual at all! this is for work. If they are paying you to make coffee, then take the slowest route....if not, buy one of these!


----------



## jlarkin

I think Gary has made 250 ml brews with it (maybe others as well) and it goes up to 1.2 litres. I don't miss the ritual, it's handy for making a good size drink and the jug keeps it warm for a long time as well, if you should make a big un and not pour it all straight away.


----------



## Nod

Thanks both - seem ideal for my needs. i will go for it.


----------



## jlarkin

Nod said:


> Thanks both - seem ideal for my needs. i will go for it.


 @Nod I assume you've seen their was a discount code? I can't remember what the code was (Gary posted it somewhere). You should check in case it still works...Ignore this if you already know that  and sorry if it's expired, it was a while ago.


----------



## johnealey

Page 6 of this thread if it helps

John


----------



## Nod

> Page 6 of this thread if it helps John


Thanks - I had remembered the code was available and was hoping it will still work... It did a few days a go so fingers crossed.


----------



## Wuyang

It does have to be taken into account that doing smaller than the recommended brews can cause a vacuum in the header tank leading to occasional odd drips of water running down onto the screen and switches.


----------



## jeebsy

IMAG2559 by wjheenan, on Flickr


----------



## garydyke1

How did it taste? extract?

After extensive testing , those little pits are when the very final drops are emptying the chamber , 95% of the brew has occurred by then .


----------



## risky

Wait @jeebsy when did you get one of these?


----------



## jeebsy

It's this week's imm, tasted pretty decent but first brew with those beans so don't have much reference. Was getting a slight bitterness like dark choc while it was warm but that's gone as it cooled.


----------



## Wuyang

jeebsy said:


> IMAG2559 by wjheenan, on Flickr


Ive never had a plug hole like that. I just get a few slight indents, but then again I have a preference for a much coarser grind.......I seem to get more flavours and sweetness that way.


----------



## Wuyang

I keep considering selling mine, I just can't seem to get shut of the heartburn.


----------



## 4085

Wuyang said:


> I keep considering selling mine, I just can't seem to get shut of the heartburn.


Try a dash of milk in it.....sacrilege I hear people shout!


----------



## Phil104

'SACRILEGE', he shouted&#8230;.


----------



## DoubleShot

dfk41 said:


> Try a dash of milk in it.....sacrilege I hear people shout!


When I've made someone a cuppa from my Brazen and I hear the words "milk" and "sugar", I leave the room! 

@Mrboots2u would be proud of me!


----------



## MWJB

Wuyang said:


> I keep considering selling mine, I just can't seem to get shut of the heartburn.


Sorry if you have given your brew parameters earlier in the thread, but can you describe ratio, filter etc?


----------



## Phil104

DoubleShot said:


> When I've made someone a cuppa from my Brazen and I hear the words "milk" and "sugar", I leave the room!
> 
> @Mrboots2u would be proud of me!


So you shout sacrilege, too, but in your head as you leave the room.


----------



## DoubleShot

If they want milk and sugar they may as well make themselves instant coffee, lol!


----------



## 4085

If black coffee gives him heartburn, try it with milk. Is that so bad? I did not mention sugar


----------



## jlarkin

MWJB said:


> Sorry if you have given your brew parameters earlier in the thread, but can you describe ratio, filter etc?


Previously it was this



Wuyang said:


> I'm doing 30g to the 900ml mark.


----------



## MWJB

jlarkin said:


> Previously it was this


First step would be getting nearer to 55g/l & using a paper filter (if not already).


----------



## Wuyang

MWJB said:


> Sorry if you have given your brew parameters earlier in the thread, but can you describe ratio, filter etc?


Im using the Kalita paper filter, water to the calibration line which I think is about 500ml. I also use quite a course grind compared to some I've seen on here.


----------



## jeebsy

Calibration line is quite a bit more than 500ml.


----------



## frankil

I think that the manual says that the calibration line is 600ml.


----------



## Mrboots2u

frankil said:


> I think that the manual says that the calibration line is 600ml.


Correct


----------



## garydyke1

30g / 600ml is fine


----------



## jeebsy

garydyke1 said:


> 30g / 600ml is fine


I did 30g with the calibration line amount to start and thought was a bit weak, enjoying it more at 60g/l


----------



## MWJB

Wuyang said:


> Im using the Kalita paper filter, water to the calibration line which I think is about 500ml. I also use quite a course grind compared to some I've seen on here.


If your grind is too coarse you may be under-extracting. I virtually never get any acid reflux from drinking coffee, but when I do it is either under-extracted or unfiltered. I find it hard to see a mechanism by which one drip brewer gives you heartburn & others don't, but that obviously doesn't mean it is impossible.


----------



## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> 30g / 600ml is fine


If you like your coffee around 1.10%TDS, or if you have an EK & can extract it further/higher TDS.


----------



## garydyke1

MWJB said:


> If you like your coffee around 1.10%TDS, or if you have an EK & can extract it further/higher TDS.


We are hitting around 1.15-1.18 TDS at one of our shops with that ratio with the Baratza encore , and its tasting awesome.

Isn't the issue heart burn though? I may have missed something


----------



## MWJB

garydyke1 said:


> We are hitting around 1.15-1.18 TDS at one of our shops with that ratio with the Baratza encore , and its tasting awesome.
> 
> Isn't the issue heart burn though? I may have missed something


If Wuyang isn't measuring & not hitting that TDS (you're talking about a +/-0.25%EY window, pretty small), it's hard to make recommendations based simply on a ratio at the margins of typical range.


----------



## Wuyang

Must admit the brazen knocks out some flavoured brews...haven't touched my clever dripper in a while.


----------



## Wuyang

I tried 55g/l with Kalita filter with a goner grind on the lido3. I know everybody's preference differs to some degree, but I really didn't like it, didn't seem to have the sweetness or flavours I'm used to getting from 16g/600 ml.

I have just increased the water to 900ml to 16g and although a bit weaker than my usual still very sweet.

I know nothing about the TDS values, but would be interested what values you get at 16g/600ml and 16g/900ml using a Kalita paper filter and what the values say about these ratios.....so if anybody wants to give it ago out of curiosity feel free to.

Just curious how much water you can put through at 16g to hit your ideal TDS figures.


----------



## Mrboots2u

That's a really weak brew ( comparatively speaking )16>900 1:56 ratio ? I'm not sure i'd be tasting anything other than water at that level


----------



## foundrycoffeeroasters.com

I'm finding around 53g/litre is working well in Sheffield. Grinding with the Lido 3 (I think this is the grinder you have), I'm at 7 notches out from closed. This is giving a brew with around 1.2 tds when using 900mls water, EY 20.5 ish. Water is important though, we were having to add a few grams/litre when in Glasgow to get similar results even with Sheffield being known for having soft water.


----------



## MWJB

Wuyang said:


> Just curious how much water you can put through at 16g to hit your ideal TDS figures.


There's no ideal TDS, but your brews fall well under what would be regarded as typical (either in the US, Europe, or Norway)...unless you are extracting way more than you should.

I wouldn't be brewing with more than 290-300ml of water to 16g of coffee. Adjust the grind to steer flavour, don't add/subtract coffee.


----------



## Wuyang

Strange, but it tastes so much better to me at 16g/600g ....it's seems to be where the flavours at for my rather unusual palate......I find it harder to detect the lovely sweetness and flavours at the higher concentrations.

Give it a go..........you never know...


----------



## Mrboots2u

Wuyang said:


> Strange, but it tastes so much better to me at 16g/600g ....it's seems to be where the flavours at for my rather unusual palate......I find it harder to detect the lovely sweetness and labours at the higher concentrations.
> 
> Give it a go..........you never know...


It could well be a high extraction - just a very weak one . If you like it , then that's all good . I'll pass on trying it through for now


----------



## MWJB

Wuyang said:


> Strange, but it tastes so much better to me at 16g/600g ....it's seems to be where the flavours at for my rather unusual palate......I find it harder to detect the lovely sweetness and flavours at the higher concentrations.
> 
> Give it a go..........you never know...


People certainly do brew at that ratio, usually when following bag recommendations on supermarket coffee for French press. The thing is, the dark roasts can give a degree of intensity that masks the weakness. Plus the coffee & water just sit together, there's no flow through the bed aggressively washing out the coffee, like there is with a drip brew.

You mentioned heartburn, do you get heartburn with the clever dripper, what ratio do you use in that? I can't help feeling that your digestive issues are something to with how much/little you are taking out of the coffee, rather than the machine doing it?


----------



## Xpenno

There is a hint in maxwells paper on water that there are some chemicals that are not so good for you in coffee, and that they are harder to extract. You are probably seriously overextracting which could be pulling some of these chemicals out.


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 17225


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> View attachment 17225


Where are the obligatory holes and divots?


----------



## jeebsy

Dunno what was 'different' this morning but swapped the divots for a textbook


----------



## Wuyang

How do you find out if you are overextracting? Not sure if I am or not, but I generally grind coarser than most. I wouldn't say it's the brazen that's giving me the heartburn just filtered coffee.

With regards to the clever.....yes I was getting heartburn with it, but I haven't used it in a while.


----------



## MWJB

Severe over-extraction can be smoky flavoured & drying on the palate. This would be weak still, but bitterness might give the impression of strength?

If you were extracting nominally, or under-extracting, the coffee would be abnormally weak.

Do you remember what quantities you used in the Clever?


----------



## Wuyang

Thanks MWJB.

Around 400ml to 15/16g in the clever. I think the heart burn has gradually sneaked upon me when I stopped having solely lattes and moved on to brewed.

I have still had heartburn this week, but not as bad as it has been, I'm hoping it's just all a coincidence.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Same here. For me, heart burn is a symptom of regular consumption of filtered coffee. Can't remember where I read it, but there is a study which measures acidity in coffee, and brewed / filtered coffee is far more acidic than espresso. In contrast, I drink espresso on a daily basis and don't suffer from heartburns at all.


----------



## MWJB

pessutojr said:


> Same here. For me, heart burn is a symptom of regular consumption of filtered coffee. Can't remember where I read it, but there is a study which measures acidity in coffee, and brewed / filtered coffee is far more acidic than espresso. In contrast, I drink espresso on a daily basis and don't suffer from heartburns at all.


That would be an interesting study to read, but are we sure that it's the acid content that's the problem? It's usually underextracted coffee or unfiltered coffee without skimming the lipids that does it to me. The only study I have seen suggests the acids extract proportional to total extraction yield, so the coffee least likely to give me heartburn has more acids than the coffee most likely...but the acids don't solely contribute to acidic flavours, just to confuse the issue...


----------



## MWJB

Wuyang said:


> Thanks MWJB.
> 
> Around 400ml to 15/16g in the clever. I think the heart burn has gradually sneaked upon me when I stopped having solely lattes and moved on to brewed.
> 
> I have still had heartburn this week, but not as bad as it has been, I'm hoping it's just all a coincidence.


That's still a very low ratio (e.g. I'd be using more like 25-28g of coffee for 400ml, fine grind & left for 35min) despite that, I'm guessing that is under-extracting.


----------



## gcogger

MWJB said:


> That would be an interesting study to read, but are we sure that it's the acid content that's the problem? It's usually underextracted coffee or unfiltered coffee without skimming the lipids that does it to me. The only study I have seen suggests the acids extract proportional to total extraction yield, so the coffee least likely to give me heartburn has more acids than the coffee most likely...but the acids don't solely contribute to acidic flavours, just to confuse the issue...


I'm pretty sure it's not the acidity that gives heartburn. The level of acidity in the stomach is so high that drinking any cup of coffee would reduce the acidity level.


----------



## garydyke1

Under -extracted espresso wrecks my digestion for several hours


----------



## Viernes

robashton said:


> They're not holes - they're just disturbance (I still get this on my good brews)
> 
> Holes are where you can see the filter really clearly in a couple of places, wish I'd taken a picture while that was still happenning!


Like this?










Why this happen?


----------



## Viernes

No deep holes anymore, but I can't get proper brews. Only weak/flat/tasteless coffee. I got so much better coffee from the V60.

I just brewing some coffee of finca san juan, EL Salvador. 30g/500g/94ºC. I there's no acidity at all which is present on V60. Any ideas?


----------



## jeebsy

Is that paper the right size? Looks like it might be slightly small. Have you calibrated etc?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Weak and flat > finer grind ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ok- the brazen wont be the same as a v60 , your using a different paper but my v60 prefernces are for a stronger brew with it . Perhaps you are the same

The Brzaen for me was more akin to a Chemex like brew , little less strong , more delicate

You can of course adjust the coffee water and grind to get to a strength and balance that you prefer with a brazen too

Put of interest what water to coffee do you use for a v 60


----------



## Viernes

Yup. Calibrated (ºF). 185 calita filters. Ek43 at 9 (3fe dial).

What I'm seeing is that only a few shower jets are working... only the central ones.. is it normal?


----------



## d_lash

What volume brews are you making? From brief experimentation it seems to pulse 120ml over 15s then pause 15s. For a 4 min brew with 30s preinfusion that worked out as needing a final volume circa 900ml. Like that we get plenty of fruit and (good) acidity. I'm not sure how one would handle smaller brews without resulting in a much quicker total extraction time and flat coffee or else going finer grind such that the pulses stall and build up for a great long drop at the end.


----------



## Viernes

I'm using 500 g of water. In fact I'd like to use less, 250 g. Make 4 cups at a time is too much for me... So this is the problem? Small brews = Flat coffee?


----------



## d_lash

Couldn't say if it's the whole story but maybe find a friend or two to brew for and see if 900ml is better? If only drinking single cups maybe the beh(e)mor isn't the way. Good thermostatic kettle and take your pick from v60 kalita etc


----------



## jeebsy

I'm sure gary has made 250ml brews successfully


----------



## jeebsy

View attachment 17622


Flatter than a really flat thing


----------



## Nod

I think the issue is that the behmor drops a consistent amount of water with each consistent pulse. It does not adjust the amount of water it uses based on the amount of water you have put in the holder. That means that the rate and amount of water used is a constant. When you are working out your brewing plan you have to work with the fact the behmor gives you 120 ml every 15 seconds with a 15 break. Therefore if you want to get 250 ml of coffee you know this will take you only 2 pours (120ml each pulse) ie a total brew time of only 1 minute... Hence under extracted coffee. D_lash and I have been doing some measuring and it seems the only real option with the behmor is to make around a litre of coffee with approx 55gr coffee... This will take you just over 4 minutes - which I think MJWB (the brew master) says is about the time you would want. You can then of course adjust the grind as the only variable that is not constant.

I must stress that the above summary maybe COMPLETELY wrong and I don't want to spread misinformation about a quality machine. I know we have a lot of brazen users on here and it would be great to get an opinion from the brazen maker who I know has posted. It was just a couple of coffee geeks doing a bit of measuring and planning..... With the schedule we are using we are getting some awesome brews....


----------



## Step21

I don't know whether or not the pulses are adjusted to the volume of water. But it does not produce under extracted coffee at any volume unless you do something silly. It is a very efficient brewer. All my brews at various volumes and grind settings from fine to medium drip have come in between 19 and 24% EY using a brew ratio of between 52 to 60g/l and the Kalita paper filters.

I haven't done any larger brews recently (my default is 500ml) but I can't say I've noticed much difference in overall brew time - but I haven't actually timed it.

I'm sure like all brewers that the Brazen has an optimum volume which may very well be 1000ml. Tastes good to me at all volumes tbh.

The only time I've got anything close to under extracted was using the supplied mesh filter.

I try to bring my brews in at about 20.5 to 21% EY and adjust variables to suit. I find that lower brew ratios tend to produce higher EY's, which are not always desirable depending on your grinder. So at the moment i'm around the 58 to 60g/l mark.


----------



## Rdl81

Can I ask do you need to calibrate the machine before each use? Also what sort of setting using a hausgrind 1.6ish?


----------



## garydyke1

Rdl81 said:


> Can I ask do you need to calibrate the machine before each use?


No , just the once. It should remember the settings


----------



## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> I'm sure gary has made 250ml brews successfully


All the time , I can pretty much guess the EY . If its way under or over I blame the roast development


----------



## risky

garydyke1 said:


> All the time , I can pretty much guess the EY . If its way under or over I blame the roast development


This is what really makes me want to get one. Just seems so foolproof.

Stupid question but generally how course do you grind?


----------



## garydyke1

risky said:


> This is what really makes me want to get one. Just seems so foolproof.
> 
> Stupid question but generally how course do you grind?


Depends on the water I'm using


----------



## Wuyang

garydyke1 said:


> All the time , I can pretty much guess the EY . If its way under or over I blame the roast development


After speaking to brazen about water drips running down the front of machine the fella who owns brazen told me isn't designed to do small volumes, I was doing 600ml and he said this can cause a vacuum which releases water down the front of the machine around the switches etc...the water generally leaks close to the end of the cycle.....not ideal.


----------



## garydyke1

That would be Joe from Behmor. I run 250ml , 500ml and 900ml brews all the time with no issues whatsoever. I guess I must be lucky


----------



## Nod

> I think the issue is that the behmor drops a consistent amount of water with each consistent pulse. It does not adjust the amount of water it uses based on the amount of water you have put in the holder. That means that the rate and amount of water used is a constant. When you are working out your brewing plan you have to work with the fact the behmor gives you 120 ml every 15 seconds with a 15 break. Therefore if you want to get 250 ml of coffee you know this will take you only 2 pours (120ml each pulse) ie a total brew time of only 1 minute... Hence under extracted coffee. D_lash and I have been doing some measuring and it seems the only real option with the behmor is to make around a litre of coffee with approx 55gr coffee... This will take you just over 4 minutes - which I think MJWB (the brew master) says is about the time you would want. You can then of course adjust the grind as the only variable that is not constant. I must stress that the above summary maybe COMPLETELY wrong and I don't want to spread misinformation about a quality machine. I know we have a lot of brazen users on here and it would be great to get an opinion from the brazen maker who I know has posted. It was just a couple of coffee geeks doing a bit of measuring and planning..... With the schedule we are using we are getting some awesome brews....


Behmor - Joe can you shed any light on the above idea - does the behmor adjust the amount of water in each pulse if you are brewing a smaller volume of coffee?


----------



## Nod

\ said:


> I don't know whether or not the pulses are adjusted to the volume of water. But it does not produce under extracted coffee at any volume unless you do something silly. It is a very efficient brewer. All my brews at various volumes and grind settings from fine to medium drip have come in between 19 and 24% EY using a brew ratio of between 52 to 60g/l and the Kalita paper filters. I haven't done any larger brews recently (my default is 500ml) but I can't say I've noticed much difference in overall brew time - but I haven't actually timed it. I'm sure like all brewers that the Brazen has an optimum volume which may very well be 1000ml. Tastes good to me at all volumes tbh. The only time I've got anything close to under extracted was using the supplied mesh filter. I try to bring my brews in at about 20.5 to 21% EY and adjust variables to suit. I find that lower brew ratios tend to produce higher EY's' date=' which are not always desirable depending on your grinder. So at the moment i'm around the 58 to 60g/l mark.[/quote']
> 
> Step21 - I think this is a v powerful argument. The refractometer does not lie. If the brews are all spot on at any dose and brew volume then who cares about the rest or the mechanism... Thanks for this post...


----------



## jlarkin

Nod said:


> Behmor - Joe can you shed any light on the above idea - does the behmor adjust the amount of water in each pulse if you are brewing a smaller volume of coffee?


I'm pretty sure he commented on this but I can't find it now. I think (but my memory isn't what it once was) that he essentially said the Behmohr just releases water for a set amount of time until it's done with all the water. You'll find the amount of water will vary as with a bigger brew there is more (not sure of what the actual term would be) "back pressure" behind it...Seems to make sense because I'm pretty sure it doesn't know how much water you put in it.


----------



## Step21

Wuyang said:


> After speaking to brazen about water drips running down the front of machine the fella who owns brazen told me isn't designed to do small volumes, I was doing 600ml and he said this can cause a vacuum which releases water down the front of the machine around the switches etc...the water generally leaks close to the end of the cycle.....not ideal.


I find this happens a lot with smaller brews circa 250ml or on manual release with small volumes. I now place a sheet of kitchen towel on the lid to soak up any drips coming out the top. Not ideal but it does the job.


----------



## Step21

jlarkin said:


> I'm pretty sure he commented on this but I can't find it now.


You are correct - he did comment on this. But like you, I can't find it either!


----------



## Step21

Nod said:


> Step21 - I think this is a v powerful argument. The refractometer does not lie. If the brews are all spot on at any dose and brew volume then who cares about the rest or the mechanism... Thanks for this post...


Just because EY is in the "gold" zone doesn't necessarily mean it's going to taste good, but the chances are high. I'm just saying that it's actually pretty hard to under extract with it. There is bound to be a volume/grind that gives you a personal taste preference. My findings are that it produces consistently good brews at 250,500,750,1000, and 1.2l max. And i'm not as "lucky" as Gary!

A bit of muppetry today with a 250ml brew. I poured some boiling water over the Kalita filter in situ inside the basket inserted it into the machine and let it drip through to the carafe while preparing the coffee. I forgot to empty the carafe before the brew started! But it still tasted darn good if weak!

This was at 57g/l on a fine drip grind with 50 sec pre-soak at 204F.

The adjustable variables of temp and pre-soak can have a big bearing on the resulting brew. Lower temps will extract less.


----------



## jeebsy

Anyone know what/if Bravilor papers will fit this? Placing an order but the supplier doesn't sell Kalita papers


----------



## jlarkin

jeebsy said:


> Anyone know what/if Bravilor papers will fit this? Placing an order but the supplier doesn't sell Kalita papers


Do they have Bunn ones? Joe Behmohr made a recommendation for a size of those ones...which it should be possible to find.


----------



## jeebsy

jlarkin said:


> Do they have Bunn ones? Joe Behmohr made a recommendation for a size of those ones...which it should be possible to find.


http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24813-Behmor-Brazen-Plus-Review&p=333737#post333737

Cheers. Searching for filters was a bit wide, Bunn narrowed it down enough


----------



## jlarkin

jeebsy said:


> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24813-Behmor-Brazen-Plus-Review&p=333737#post333737
> 
> Cheers. Searching for filters was a bit wide, Bunn narrowed it down enough


Just pleased you found the evidence that he actually posted. I thought he had Joe in his username and other various searches only turned up posts by me...


----------



## Nod

Hey I'm loving the brazen this Christmas. Easy way to make coffee for all the family. Compared with my multiple aeropresss last year! It makes delicious coffee effortlessly

Few questions:

1. What temperature are people brewing at? Garydyke1 - do u have a standard you stick to?

2. What coarseness of grind. I am going slightly coarser than kalita wave but v slightly less than Chemex I.e. Really quite coarse...

3. What pre infusion do people use - I am on 45 seconds

Seems to work well but with no refractometer no chance of measuring EY

thanks - top Brewer....


----------



## DoubleShot

Am I the only one that thinks the jug could do with a design tweet. It doesn't pour very well imo and the opening when you remove the lid is a tad on the small size making it very hard to get my hand in to wash it with a kitchen dish sponge!


----------



## Rdl81

DoubleShot said:
 

> Am I the only one that thinks the jug could do with a design tweet. It doesn't pour very well imo and the opening when you remove the lid is a tad on the small size making it very hard to get my hand in to wash it with a kitchen dish sponge!


I agree on this the spout seems the weakest point on it difficult to pour out that last bit of coffee in there.....having sati that think it's great machine!


----------



## garydyke1

Nod said:


> Hey I'm loving the brazen this Christmas. Easy way to make coffee for all the family. Compared with my multiple aeropresss last year! It makes delicious coffee effortlessly
> 
> Few questions:
> 
> 1. What temperature are people brewing at? Garydyke1 - do u have a standard you stick to?
> 
> 2. What coarseness of grind. I am going slightly coarser than kalita wave but v slightly less than Chemex I.e. Really quite coarse...
> 
> 3. What pre infusion do people use - I am on 45 seconds
> 
> Seems to work well but with no refractometer no chance of measuring EY
> 
> thanks - top Brewer....


I leave the temp at 93C


----------



## Step21

Rdl81 said:


> I agree on this the spout seems the weakest point on it difficult to pour out that last bit of coffee in there.....having sati that think it's great machine!


Have to agree with you there. Got to turn the jug upside down to get the last of the coffee out.


----------



## Step21

Nod said:


> Hey I'm loving the brazen this Christmas. Easy way to make coffee for all the family. Compared with my multiple aeropresss last year! It makes delicious coffee effortlessly
> 
> Few questions:
> 
> 1. What temperature are people brewing at? Garydyke1 - do u have a standard you stick to?
> 
> 2. What coarseness of grind. I am going slightly coarser than kalita wave but v slightly less than Chemex I.e. Really quite coarse...
> 
> 3. What pre infusion do people use - I am on 45 seconds
> 
> Seems to work well but with no refractometer no chance of measuring EY
> 
> thanks - top Brewer....


If it's tasting good that's all that matters!

I tend to use 202 to 204F (93C is about 200F)

I change the grind according to brew volume and /or brew ratio but i'm usually in medium to medium/coarse drip territory. Obviously some beans extract more than others so there are often minor adjustments bean to bean.

I use 1min preinfusion mostly

Water choice is a big determinant of getting ultra tasty brews from the Brazen (as it is with all brewed methods).


----------



## DoubleShot

I'm using 50/50 Waitrose Essential and Volvic.


----------



## jlarkin

Step21 said:


> Water choice is a big determinant of getting ultra tasty brews from the Brazen (as it is with all brewed methods).


Don't leave us hanging, what is your water choice?


----------



## Step21

Sorry to let you down but i was really just referring to the fact that the water used is very important and would refer to the "Bottled water blends for brewed" thread. Any of the recommended mixes in there will deliver a good result.

I've been sticking with a 3 water mix for a while now. It's essentially 1 part (Strathmore mixed with Fairbourne Spring) to 3 parts Glaceau. I vary the mix between Strathmore and FS bean by bean up to a 50/50 split. Generally i use 25%/75% SM/FS and take it from there.

So for instance if it was a 1 litre brew i'd be using 750ml of Glaceau, 75ml Strathmore, 175ml Fairbourne Spring.

A 1:1:6, SM:FS:GL mix is more or less a 3:1 GH/KH mix (by label values).


----------



## Step21

I came across this post regarding specific brew temperatures for beans of different origin from Behmor Joe on the Coffeegeek forum which interested me and i thought it might be worth copying over here:

"What we found in testing for "brewing":

Fruity coffees such as Ethiopians, lighter roasts and coffee termed bright show/taste better at brewing temperatures below 200F. At temperatures above 200F (203-204), the coffee may/did taste over-extracted. We found this out last year when demonstrating the Brazen Plus in NYC. We did an Ethiopian at 204 which was scientifically shown to have the ideal extraction/ solids according to SCAA/ECBC standards but we noted it lacked fruit and seemed a bit off character (astringent) so we did another brew using same beans, same weight, grind etc at 198 and the fruit exploded in the cup. Since then we have shown coffee the same way side by side and experts overwhelmingly agreed with our assessment*. The opposite (for temps) seemed to be true for bold, full bodied coffee from Central America, So America, Southeast Asia and coffees that had been roasted to Full City, dark roasts, and beyond.

Temperatures noted are set point/ pre-ground contact

Coffees for brewing temperature below 200F (ideally around 197-199)

African origin

Bright coffees

City

City+

Fruity coffees

Island coffees

Coffees for brewing temperature over 200F (ideally around 203-205)

Southeast Asia

Central American

South American

Full body, dark roasts

Chocolate characteristics

Full City and beyond

*The one caveat is for the personal tastes but most people we surveyed in USA, Australia, Italy (EU at SCAE) and in Asia found the above to be a good basis in understanding.."

I'm not sure how the US City roasts equate to European roasts but assume City - Light, City + - medium, Full City - Slightly Dark ?

Anyway, in light of this information i'm now going to try each new bean at both 198F and 204F and see what preferences i have in taste. 204F is my default anyway. 200F is the lowest i've gone and i've not liked the brews as much. 206F is the highest i've gone so far and it wasn't good.


----------



## jlarkin

I've not changed temp much but would have approached it with the assumption the ligher roasts needed higher temp. Interesting to try sometime.


----------



## risky

Step21 said:


> I'm not sure how the US City roasts equate to European roasts but assume City - Light, City + - medium, Full City - Slightly Dark ?


It's a hard one, I believe what we consider light probably doesn't exist much in the states, what they usually consider light would be fairly medium over here. But given the 'bright' and 'fruity' in that group, your assumption is probably correct.

I still can't get my head around using dark coffee for brewed anyway.


----------



## Step21

jlarkin said:


> I've not changed temp much but would have approached it with the assumption the ligher roasts needed higher temp. Interesting to try sometime.


My thoughts too. I've put a lot of light Kenyans through the Brazen and get more fruit at 204F than 202F but i've never tried lower. It will be interesting to try.


----------



## Step21

risky said:


> It's a hard one, I believe what we consider light probably doesn't exist much in the states, what they usually consider light would be fairly medium over here. But given the 'bright' and 'fruity' in that group, your assumption is probably correct.
> 
> I still can't get my head around using dark coffee for brewed anyway.


I've been given beans as presents that are darker than my usual and they come out well in the Brazen at 204F. Like a good americano.


----------



## risky

Interesting. I suppose the brazen is seen as quite hard to make a bad brew with? Still on my shopping list.


----------



## johnealey

Thanks for the above and even tempted to change to F from C to make life easier 

John


----------



## NickdeBug

Mine has been set on 92C since I got it. I tend to go for lighter roasts and never had a problem.

You could be right John, using F would actually give greater sensitivity in temp.


----------



## Rdl81

I normally use 203 f but just lowered it to 198 for the latest lsol and did seem to make it taste better for fruity taste


----------



## johnealey

Just about to go an re try a Kenyan Thangaini that have struggled to dial in as an espresso and the first brazen at 94c was heavily over extracted. Was getting ready to right this one off as "just not my cup of coffee" (was a cracking espresso at rave though,so not the beans fault)

John


----------



## Step21

I've been brewing a Kenyan this week - so have been doing some temperature tests while keeping other brew parameters fixed.

The best brews have been at 196F (91C) and also at 203F (95C). The brews at the lower temp have been just as fruity as the higher ones which has surprised me. TDS/EY is lower for the lower temp brews generally coming in at 20.5% EY. The higher temp brews have higher TDS and tend to come in around 21.75 - 22% EY. This is a very easily extractable bean typical IME of Kenyans.

So perhaps the lower temp is bringing a more "normal" extraction which tastes better.

Maybe the Hausgrind isn't good enough to pull off tasty 22% extractions?


----------



## neilsby

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this forum.

I'm looking at the Brazen Plus for producing consistent cups of coffee. I've had a clever dripper, v60 and aeropress in the past but it's just too much hassle in the mornings.

May I ask you knowledgeable people a couple of questions before I take the plunge please:

Most of the time I'll only want 2-4 cups in total a day, will the smaller quantity affect the brew quality?

I understand it's better to use Kalita Wave filters, what size should I get?

Where is the best place to purchase, Has Bean? Does anybody know of them going cheaper anywhere?

I have a Hario manual grinder at the moment and I think the time has come to get something better. Can you recommend a reasonable electric grinder for this type of brew method. I'm never going to get an espresso machine so I'm guessing I don't need a super-fine grinder.

Also, any tips on what beans to get for the first brews would be appreciated!

Thank you,

Neil


----------



## Rdl81

Ok I have one of these I tend to brew 500 to 1000ml at time more oftern or not 500ml only so two cups I use 185 filters and a manual hausgrind grinder. I don't think it's as good as a v60 but it's so easy I use it at weekends. I prefer light roasts mainly from lsol


----------



## Step21

No problem with single cups. 250ml in will get you approx 210g out.

You need Kalita Wave 185 filter papers (bleached better IMO)

HasBean AFAIK are the only UK sellers.

Consider a hand grinder like a Feldgrind or Lido - you'd have to pay a good bit more to get a comparable standard electric grinder. For drip these hand grinders chomp through the beans effortlessly. Given you are on a low volume there's no real need for electric?

Brazen is good with all beans i've tried (even darker roasts) - choose something you like.


----------



## Stevebee

Currently brew using either Kalita or V60 but like the idea and consistency of these machines. Has anyone used the Technivorm Moccamaster as well ? I like the idea of the pre infusion as that would replicate my manual method but understand the Moccamaster doen't do this. Any thoughts on how they compare?


----------



## garydyke1

Stevebee said:


> Currently brew using either Kalita or V60 but like the idea and consistency of these machines. Has anyone used the Technivorm Moccamaster as well ? I like the idea of the pre infusion as that would replicate my manual method but understand the Moccamaster doen't do this. Any thoughts on how they compare?


One for @Xpenno


----------



## Jon

I'm making terrible coffee on this. Terrible.


----------



## jlarkin

Jon said:


> I'm making terrible coffee on this. Terrible.


I assume you mean coffee that doesn't taste good? Would you like to discuss this with the group e.g. what is your recipe for this, grinder are you using?


----------



## Jon

jlarkin said:


> I assume you mean coffee that doesn't taste good? Would you like to discuss this with the group e.g. what is your recipe for this, grinder are you using?


No. I want to cry.


----------



## johnealey

Does it taste of plastic? Mine did for a while and convinced there was some odd plastic floating round in the innards (there wasn't)

Keep running high temp water brews only through might help.

Filing that, when the tears have dried up tell us your recipe 

John


----------



## Jon

johnealey said:


> Does it taste of plastic? Mine did for a while and convinced there was some odd plastic floating round in the innards (there wasn't)
> 
> Keep running high temp water brews only through might help.
> 
> Filing that, when the tears have dried up tell us your recipe
> 
> John


Recipe is 54g to 900ml of water. Standard settings on behmor. 1.1 (1 turn and position one on Das Schwartze Feldgrind). I was at 1.4 and that was lacking so tweaked. Wrongly I suspect.


----------



## NickdeBug

Mine started playing up - previously sound recipes turning out slightly astringent brews.

Did a descale and re-calibrated and it was back to its happy self again. No tears.

'orrible hard water around here, but may not be an issue elsewhere


----------



## Jon

NickdeBug said:


> Mine started playing up - previously sound recipes turning out slightly astringent brews.
> 
> Did a descale and re-calibrated and it was back to its happy self again. No tears.
> 
> 'orrible hard water around here, but may not be an issue elsewhere


Very hard here but I use volvic might try a recal.

Having said that I've never perfected coffee in it.


----------



## jlarkin

I think 1.1 on the Feldfarb would be too fine for the Brazen with that volume. I'd try at least 1.6 and see if it isn't better. May also be worth playing with other things.


----------



## Jon

jlarkin said:


> I think 1.1 on the Feldfarb would be too fine for the Brazen with that volume. I'd try at least 1.6 and see if it isn't better. May also be worth playing with other things.


Thanks. So if I try 1.6 and it still tastes evil what should I change next?


----------



## Step21

What temp, pre-soak times are you using? What's the bean?

If i was doing a 900ml brew, i'd generally be around 203F, 45 sec pre soak, 52g of coffee and a grind of 1.8/9 ish (depends on the coffee) but 1.1 is far too fine IMO. 1.1 should produce coffee that is over extracted and strong at those settings. I certainly wouldn't be queueing up to try it!

I think the manual does recommend a quarterly recalibration.


----------



## NickdeBug

temp? 1C seems to make quite a difference with some beans.

The Ethiopian IMM last month improved dramatically at 92C rather than 93C (all other things the same). Went from a little bit meh to an explosion of blueberries.

What beans are you feeding it?


----------



## Rdl81

Jon said:


> Thanks. So if I try 1.6 and it still tastes evil what should I change next?


Try 1.9


----------



## Jon

Step21 said:


> What temp, pre-soak times are you using? What's the bean?
> 
> If i was doing a 900ml brew, i'd generally be around 203F, 45 sec pre soak, 52g of coffee and a grind of 1.8/9 ish (depends on the coffee) but 1.1 is far too fine IMO. 1.1 should produce coffee that is over extracted and strong at those settings. I certainly wouldn't be queueing up to try it!
> 
> I think the manual does recommend a quarterly recalibration.


It's all standard settings at the mo.


----------



## Jon

Rdl81 said:


> Try 1.9


Instead of 1.6?


----------



## Rdl81

Yes also for given bean try a range of temp so 196 vs say 203 and then adjust between range keeping grind same but I would do 1.6 or 1.9


----------



## Xpenno

garydyke1 said:


> One for @Xpenno


Brazen is amazing, simple and extremely consistent. Techno was inconsistent but good results were still achievable.


----------



## Stevebee

A bit late replying but thanks for that. I ended up going for the Brazen, sold via this forum. Excellent condition and very happy with it. One thing I did notice whilst confirming the different temps with a Thermapen (they are spot on) was that the water was not coming out of all the holes on the shower screen. I remember a post about ensuring the unit is level so did a quick check using an electronic level measure. Sure enough, the surface it was on was not level, although to the naked eye looked OK. A small 3mm pad added to one of the existing feet and bingo 100% level.

Unsuprisingly the water is now coming out in and even spread. Brazen 1 My work tops 0. Not sure how critical it is as when the water is pulsed the level is above the grounds but nice to see the improved spread!


----------



## Spy

Has anyone who owns theBrazen also tried out one of the Melitta drippers like the Excellent (same as the US Bonavita), Signature or new Elegance range which seem to be certified by the EU Brewing Council.

I ask as in the US, the Bonavita/Excellent seem to have the edge over the Brazen.


----------



## Spy

Does anyone know what the warranty is for this machine ?


----------



## Stevebee

Haven't used the Melitta range but from what I understand aren't they the standard filter coffee machines with hot plate and glass jug.

No pre-infusion, no pulsing of water and no adjustment of brew temperature. Not sure we're comparing apples with apples. Also not sure where in the US these have the edge - on HB and CG that doesn't seem to me to be the case from what I've read.


----------



## Spy

Melitta make a wide range of coffee makers, from the very cheap to higher end.

On the higher end, their machines are certified by the European Breqing Coffee Centre (ECBC - http://ecbc.info/coffee-brewers-tested-and-approved-by-ecbc/ )

Those machines are:

Aroma Excellent

Aroma Signature

Aroma Elegance

They are essentially the same category but the Excellent came first which was then replaced by the Signature and now the Elegance. To achieve this accreditation , they have to achieve similar standard as the US SCAA standard including optimum temperature.

The original Aroma Excellent is what is sold in the US as the Bonavita BV1800. Apparently there is some licensing issue with the US so these machines are not sold under the Melitta brand over there.

The Signature is quite similar in design to the Moccamaster.

These high end machines all come with a 5 year warranty.

I think they do most things you have listed other than user control of brew temp but then again, I think there are only 1 or 2 machines that do that.


----------



## Step21

Spy said:


> Does anyone know what the warranty is for this machine ?


2 yrs


----------



## Spy

I contacted Chris at HasBean after my post and he told me the Behmor has 12 months warranty in the UK


----------



## Stevebee

The things I listed were pulsing water, pre infusion and water temp adjustment. They don't do pre-infusion or temp adjustment so 1 out of 3 is NOT doing most of the things I mentioned.

Also the Brazen has the option of using it as a kettle for a V60 type pourover. From what I've seen on t'internet they look, unless I'm mistaken, like a standard coffee maker. I do not like a hot plate cooking my coffee and much prefer the insulated carafe.

I am aware that Melitta make coffee makers.

I do not work for Behmor and have no financial interest in the company - just bought one from a forum member and am delighted with the performance and taste of the brews.


----------



## Spy

There is a version of each of those Melittas that come with Stainless insulated carafes and teh Aroma function will pre-infuse apparently.

In any case, I agree with you that at their highest price eg this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/Melitta-1012-04-Elegance-Filter-Machine I would go for the Behmor but the previous model (Signature) can be picked up for a lot less which suddenly makes it a different proposition.


----------



## Stevebee

The aroma switch is not pre-infusion. It simply extends the brewing time when you brew smaller amounts (less than 6 cups) so that the brew doesn't taste too watery.

I forgot that the Brazen also adjusts the boiling point for altitude but as I'm in London and not Ben Nevis, not top of my list of things to have!

My short list was a Technivorm - good temp stability and great quality heater or the bells and whistles Brazen - I was swayed by the adjustable temp for different beans (also gives different extraction yields)

It is good to see that other machines are now certified that they brew at the right temp and right time though - the've been very thin on the ground in the past.


----------



## Spy

Yes, I only said it pre-infuses as I emailed one of the main suppliers and they told me that it lets some water through to pre-infuse/wet the grounds and pauses before pouring smaller pulsed quantities so as to create strength at low volume.

As is I previously noted, at full price, I think it is worth spending a little more to get the Behmor. If you can find the Melitta at half its normal price, which you can do if money is tight and you shop around, it could give a very good brew relative to its cost.

Interestingly, looking on US forums and reviews, there are many who prefer the Bonavita (the old Melitta Excellent in the EU) to the Behmor and it is very popular. Not so many owners of the equivalent Melitta on forums in the UK though


----------



## jlarkin

I seem to have more water coming from a few holes in the middle. I've tried a descale (maybe two actually) and it's not helped as much as I thought at first (it seemed like the next brew was good but after that it returned). Has anybody had any other issues, I'm somewhat tempted to start taking things apart but that's not really my forte (I've also sent a mail to Hasbean as I got it from them, just thought I'd check here as well). I've checked with a spirit level and it seems to be pretty level...

Reason I think this is that the middle of the bed, especially in one place generally, seems a lot more washed through and often all the grounds have been pushed out from that spot.


----------



## Step21

jlarkin said:


> I seem to have more water coming from a few holes in the middle. I've tried a descale (maybe two actually) and it's not helped as much as I thought at first (it seemed like the next brew was good but after that it returned). Has anybody had any other issues, I'm somewhat tempted to start taking things apart but that's not really my forte (I've also sent a mail to Hasbean as I got it from them, just thought I'd check here as well). I've checked with a spirit level and it seems to be pretty level...
> 
> Reason I think this is that the middle of the bed, especially in one place generally, seems a lot more washed through and often all the grounds have been pushed out from that spot.


I've hardly touched the Brazen recently but i've certainly had a few brews like you describe with pot holes in the central area. Even the odd one that has washed all the coffee out of a particular spot so that the filter is visible. These were 1 cup brews with maybe 14g coffee - so quite thinly spread in such a large filter. These brews were poor.

I did check that on manual release water was coming out of peripheral areas. Strangely, even on manual release the water doesn't always come out of all the holes. It seems to move around different holes each time. i.e. it does come out of all of the holes but not all of the holes at the same time. Hope that makes sense!


----------



## jlarkin

Step21 said:


> I've hardly touched the Brazen recently but i've certainly had a few brews like you describe with pot holes in the central area. Even the odd one that has washed all the coffee out of a particular spot so that the filter is visible. These were 1 cup brews with maybe 14g coffee - so quite thinly spread in such a large filter. These brews were poor.
> 
> I did check that on manual release water was coming out of peripheral areas. Strangely, even on manual release the water doesn't always come out of all the holes. It seems to move around different holes each time. i.e. it does come out of all of the holes but not all of the holes at the same time. Hope that makes sense!


Yeah makes sense, similar to what I've seen but I've normally been doing around 26g of coffee and sometimes more. On manual release the amount of holes it was coming out of, seemed fairly limited but I'll have to have another look. I heard back from the Brazen support team (which explains what you were seeing): Water is not supposed to come out of all the holes at once, but more like an oscillating sprinkler head with water coming out of different holes at different times. Are you experiencing cratering in your grounds basket?


----------



## Step21

So when it's on auto brew mode each pulse should be coming out a different set of holes? That doesn't really explain the central cratering issue. Did they have an answer for that?

I dusted my Brazen down and put through a 1 cup brew. Result - no cratering and pretty tasty! I'll try it more often and report back the frequency of cratering.


----------



## jlarkin

Step21 said:


> So when it's on auto brew mode each pulse should be coming out a different set of holes? That doesn't really explain the central cratering issue. Did they have an answer for that?
> 
> I dusted my Brazen down and put through a 1 cup brew. Result - no cratering and pretty tasty! I'll try it more often and report back the frequency of cratering.


They didn't explain it but said you should expect a certain amount. They asked if I was having issues with it besides seeing some movement in the bed. I'm a little unsure, really, because I haven't been that happy with my brews but actually I've been struggling a bit in general so I don't really know if the brewer is not helping me or I'm not helping it or something else (if you see what I mean).

So given that, I'm hoping to give it another go tomorrow vs. maybe a Kalita and then try to see if I think it's actually causing a problem...I just didn't get the chance today but did have a few nice espressos.


----------



## risky

Curious. I made my first ever just now. 57.5g/L (it was a 500ml brew), 93c, 30s pre-soak. Ground at 3 on the Feld (because someone said go chemex course). I would have said it was over-extracted, but looking through this thread, people are suggesting 1.9? That's approaching v60 territory on my Feld and looking at the photos posted, considerably finer than I was grinding.


----------



## Robbo

My Brazen is currently set at 203 deg f. With 30 second pre soak. I use it with a wave filter in the basket with around 55g per litre ratio. I have no idea if this is an ideal set up but it was rwecommended on a video i saw when i first got it.

I have a few questions.

1. 203 deg seems to set the water to boil. Is this not too hot?

2. During the pre soak i can hear dripping into the carafe. Is this supposed to happen? I thought flow was meant go be prevented until after the pre soak.

3. What effect would a longer or shorter pre soak have? Should i be making any adjustments for different beans?


----------



## Step21

Robbo said:


> My Brazen is currently set at 203 deg f. With 30 second pre soak. I use it with a wave filter in the basket with around 55g per litre ratio. I have no idea if this is an ideal set up but it was rwecommended on a video i saw when i first got it.
> 
> I have a few questions.


1. 203 deg seems to set the water to boil. Is this not too hot?

No. 203F is around 95C. It's normal to see a bit of steam leaking out the top (especially on smaller brews) but it's not boiling. I tend to use 203F most of the time.

2. During the pre soak i can hear dripping into the carafe. Is this supposed to happen? I thought flow was meant go be prevented until after the pre soak.

The pre soak commences after the first pulse of water is sprayed on the coffee. The first pulse is around 70g of brew water so for smaller quantities of coffee (

3. What effect would a longer or shorter pre soak have? Should i be making any adjustments for different beans?

A longer pre soak is useful for fresher coffee which tends to result in a bigger bloom. It allows time for the coffee bed to fully wet and settle before the next pulse. I usually use 90secs for fresh beans.

Adjustments to grind may be required depending on the solubility of each different coffee. e.g a highly soluble Kenyan will probably need a coarser grind than your standard. But it's just the same adjustment you'd make with a manual pourover. Alternatively, you can lower the brew temp to achieve the same result. African coffees tend to do well at 196F.

Your brew ratio looks about right. What volumes are you making?


----------



## Robbo

Sorry for the late reply. Usually only 700ml water with 36g coffee.

I vary my coffee quite a bit, i have a monthly subscription from Pact and fortnightly from Hasbeen. Plus a bag of from Rave when im working nearby.

Thanks for the advice. Ill stick with the temp for now but ill try increasing the soak time on fresher roasts and removing the caraffe during pre soak.


----------



## Step21

36g/700ml should be pretty much optimal for the Brazen. It should bloom at twice the volume of water to coffee. It would be interesting to know how much liquid goes into the carafe during pre soak. I wouldn't expect it to be much at all.


----------



## jkb89

Just ordered one! Excited.

Is there a standard method I should start with?


----------



## jlarkin

jkb89 said:
 

> Just ordered one! Excited.
> 
> Is there a standard method I should start with?


I pretty much leave it at 93C, have had it at 30 seconds bloom but recently changed to a minute.

I tend to use 5.3g coffee/100ml with the EK but guess a more generic 6g/100ml with most grinders is a good starting point.

Not sure what else but if you get specific questions, just post them and people should be able to chip in


----------



## johnealey

There is a post somewhere in this thread that came from Bob (?) Behmor offering a guide to temps for different types of beans, should you wish to try some of the variants later.

Best advice to start with is above from Jlarkin and if you have also ordered some Kalita wave filters (if you have make sure they the right size, believe it was one of the options on the Hasbean site pretty sure they are the 185's) remember to take out the permenant filter first.

Also don't be tempted skip the calibration stage (remembering to fit the lid tight) it does make a difference.

Hope of help

John


----------



## jkb89

Thanks guys, recieved it today so will have a play this evening!


----------



## jkb89

Having a bit of trouble getting even flow out of the shower screen guys - seems to miss the back holes no matter how much I tilt it? It's level according to my spirit level... Had one amazing batch so far, and 2 pretty average ones.


----------



## jlarkin

jkb89 said:


> Having a bit of trouble getting even flow out of the shower screen guys - seems to miss the back holes no matter how much I tilt it? It's level according to my spirit level... Had one amazing batch so far, and 2 pretty average ones.


What makes you say that you aren't getting even flow?

I think it was Joe from Behmohr but could be another name, explained that it doesn't come out of all the holes at once and it will behave differently if you don't have the basket enclosure (hope that makes sense, as I don't know the proper term) in place.


----------



## jkb89

Ahh - that may explain it. I'd been manual releasing it to check the flow... The grounds bed does seem a bit tilted (forwards is lower) so I just assumed that it matched up...


----------



## Robbo

Are you meant to remove the permanent filter basket when using the paper wave filters then? Ive always put the paper one inside it.


----------



## jlarkin

Robbo said:


> Are you meant to remove the permanent filter basket when using the paper wave filters then? Ive always put the paper one inside it.


I don't use the two together. Paper only.


----------



## Step21

Yes. Only use one filter not both. I'd forget about the permanent filter - it produces a very weak brew in comparison to the Kalita 185 paper filters at the same brew ratio/grind. I've never managed anything decent with it.


----------



## Robbo

Got it, the permanent filter is gone and this mornings brews were slightly improved without changing the ratio.


----------



## Wuyang

I've moved over to the Technivorm after not been happy with the brazen leaking and spitting boiling water when doing one cup brews.....a major design flaw in a some what lovely machine......I'm sure it would be a simple cheap fix for them to do.


----------



## YerbaMate170

Wuyang said:


> I've moved over to the Technivorm after not been happy with the brazen leaking and spitting boiling water when doing one cup brews.....a major design flaw in a some what lovely machine......I'm sure it would be a simple cheap fix for them to do.


Hmm, as someone who's been tempted by a Brazen for some time, this is bad news for me. I would probably be making one cup around half the time. Is this a common issue rather than maybe a fault with some machines?


----------



## Step21

YerbaMate170 said:


> Hmm, as someone who's been tempted by a Brazen for some time, this is bad news for me. I would probably be making one cup around half the time. Is this a common issue rather than maybe a fault with some machines?


I certainly get some leakage when using it for small brews (250ml) with higher temps. It does seem to be a flaw. I think 750 - 1l is the optimal range for the Brazen. However, the leakage is easily controlled by placing a kitchen towel on top of the lid when brewing. Not ideal though.

I don't use it much thesedays. I use manual brews for single cups.


----------



## Robbo

I dont use the brazen for single brews. I use a clever dripper for that but the brazen makes a better brew with the same coffee when i do 700ml or 1l brews. Unless im doing a long steep clever (15mins +) then it is comparable


----------



## Viernes

I cant find this information...

How much time takes your brews on the brazen?


----------



## johnealey

Approx 5 minutes from memory and then beeps.

Hope of help

John


----------



## froggystyle

When I had mine I found the end time a bit random, maybe mine was buggy though as it threw a wobbly and had to get a replacement.


----------



## Xpenno

johnealey said:


> Approx 5 minutes from memory and then beeps.
> 
> Hope of help
> 
> John


Yup about 5 mins but it depends on the total brew size and pre soak time. It's not the most programmable beast. My best brews have been at 800ml. 1.2l brews were hard work most of the time, maybe due to the longer total brew time. Could also have been due to the fixed pre-wet water dose. It would have been nice to be able to vary that. Larger brews had a very dry bed before full brew started.

Also, especially on the bigger brews, you really have to stir the coffee after the pre-wet stage otherwise you're going to be heading for uneven town.


----------



## Phobic

Had a search through this thread but can't find how long the coffee stays warm for in the flask.

can anyone give me an idea of how hot it stays for how long please.

I'm hoping I can make a batch in the morning and drink it through the day at work.


----------



## NickdeBug

The Thermos flask is pretty good.

Obviously the more you drink the faster it will cool as the hot liquid is replaced with air, but I usually reckon that I can get a drinkable cup out of it after lunch based on a 9am brew.


----------



## johnealey

^+1 on the above. Quite often make a 750ml in brew that @9 that is still drinkable about noon; if making a full pot easily 1ish, but to be fair normally drunk it by then









If you want to improve heat retention, fill the flask with boiling water and rinse out just before brewing similar to how you would for any thermos. If you "stopper" up the inlet and outlet sections with some kitchen roll it also helps to retain heat as stops any heat "wisping" out of the highest points of the jug (we recently did this for a family funeral having two pots on the go filled up, pre warmed and stoppered, brew finished 11:30 guests back at house at 14:15 was as hot as you would get from a normal filter machine, with only positive comments on how nice the coffee was)

Hope of help

John


----------



## Phobic

Great help both thanks.

certainly puts this on the shortlist for me


----------



## Dallah

I've just bought one and had my first pot from it this morning. Brewed at 10:00 and I am finishing my last mug now at 15:00. Great coffee from great piece of kit.


----------



## skippy

I'm really tempted by one of these machines but I noticed there was a 'connected' model available in the US. Is it worth waiting for that to become available or should I just go for the brazen plus?


----------



## the_partisan

What is the minimum amount of coffee you can brew with the supplied basket?


----------



## jlarkin

skippy said:


> I'm really tempted by one of these machines but I noticed there was a 'connected' model available in the US. Is it worth waiting for that to become available or should I just go for the brazen plus?


It may be worthwhile asking HasBean as they're so helpful normally and were supplying the Brazen here? I believe though the connected one was released a relatively long time ago, so I was suspecting it won't make it here (also I haven't looked into it, but doubt it would hold much benefit personally).


----------



## jlarkin

the_partisan said:


> What is the minimum amount of coffee you can brew with the supplied basket?


I ditched the basket in favour of kalita papers quite quickly and think most others did as well?

I seem to be able to brew pretty small amounts with those and still get good results - I think the smallest I tried was 18g coffee but vaguely recall somebody else was making smaller than that.


----------



## skippy

jlarkin said:


> It may be worthwhile asking HasBean as they're so helpful normally and were supplying the Brazen here? I believe though the connected one was released a relatively long time ago, so I was suspecting it won't make it here (also I haven't looked into it, but doubt it would hold much benefit personally).


Thats a good point, I'll drop them an email.

I don't really care about the smartphone control but I figured they might have made other improvements to fix some of the small issues people are having.


----------



## skippy

Has anyone found a good way to clean the flask? I can't get my hand in there at all


----------



## jlarkin

skippy said:


> Has anyone found a good way to clean the flask? I can't get my hand in there at all


 @skippy have you tried espresso machine cleaner. Did a pretty decent job on mine a while ago, though mine stayed slightly discoloured in parts.


----------



## skippy

jlarkin said:


> @skippy have you tried espresso machine cleaner. Did a pretty decent job on mine a while ago, though mine stayed slightly discoloured in parts.


i did try some old joe glo espresso machine cleaner but it didn't seem to do anything at all, I'll have to try it again and leave it longer.


----------



## garydyke1

skippy said:


> i did try some old joe glo espresso machine cleaner but it didn't seem to do anything at all, I'll have to try it again and leave it longer.


Get some Sodium Percarbonate, then add a heaped tablespoon into the jug and top up with water around 70C. leave for an hour and then rinse out several times with hot water, it should look brand new again


----------



## skippy

I completely forgot to reply to this thread sorry. I tried the joe glo again but left it much longer and it came up all shiny and new. I will try the sodium percarbonate when this runs out though.


----------



## the_partisan

I just got this and still dialling it. I tried a brew with 30g/500g using Kalita 185 filters and using 94C and noticed that it didn't beep/stop even after all the water was drained from the reservoir, is this a fault? Or you just have to wait longer and it will eventually do it? I had to manually stop it. The coffee tasted good, and the resulting bed was flat. I might try updosing, using a coarser grind or using the gold basket together with Kalita since it seemed the Kalita spread around a bit too much?


----------



## Step21

It's a long time since I used my Brazen but I do remember that occasionally it would fail to complete i.e. no beeps after all the water was drained. Doesn't seem to cause a problem. Next time it would complete ok.

I don't think I ever used the gold basket in conjunction with a paper filter.

I found it inconsistent with small brews around 250g so gave up using it. The surface of the bed often had holes where the shower hits. Sometimes water (very hot) would seep out the lid during a small brew. Just not made for small brews.


----------



## the_partisan

I agree the machine is optimized for full batch size, like other similar machines. I have a done a few 30g/500ml/94C brews so far, with mostly good results.

One brew I did at #11 on the EK43 S was very good, however another one at same grind setting ended up tasting rather poor (not particularly overextracted/astringent/smoky - but kind of generic coffee taste, without much sweetness) - maybe case of a bad channeling?

I noticed the preinfusion weight is fixed - and meant for full batch size (~130g) but you can set preinfusion time to :45 and put the carafe in before the timer runs out.

Did another brew today grinding at #12 and it came out really nice, sweet and fruity - perhaps slightly weak for my taste (TDS 1.27% - ~19% EY). It feels like I should be able to grind a lot finer, since the bed looks very clean and even. I pour the coffee partially into glass carafe for serving since it's nice to see what you're drinking, and also the thermos seems to make a bit of a mess when pouring (seems like a design issue - lid was properly screwed on the right way) when the jug has less than <250ml left in it. The coffee looked very clear, transparent.

Overall like the machine, though I would have liked a little bit better build quality for a more premium version perhaps, and there are some minor design annoyances like the thermos jug. Configurable pre-infusion weight would be nice too, but I guess there just isn't such a market for a brewer that's optimized for a variety of brew sizes.


----------



## Step21

Yes the fixed preinfusion is a big problem resulting in inconsistencies across brew sizes. For small brews I would keep the carafe out of the machine and select a long preinfusion, then insert the carafe just at the end of the preinfusion.

My grind side was also surprisingly fine. Finer than a manual V60 or Makita brew.

Temperature also makes a big difference to the taste of the brew even if it didn't effect extraction greatly. Carafe is not great imo. Doesn't pour well and seems to effect taste if left in it for any length of time.


----------



## the_partisan

Tried grinding pretty fine (cupping grind) today, #9 on the EK, 27g/500g ended up tasting really overextracted (21.5% EY), even though brew was crystal clear. The brew time doesn't really seem to change (seems to be around 1:30-2 min + pre-infusion) as I think the bed always drains pretty quickly due to how the water is dispersed. Maybe channeling happens on those finer grinds, not sure. I think this kind of basket should do better with more coffee in it perhaps.


----------



## PPapa

What are the alternatives then for shorter brews? Moccamaster one cup?

I'm the same with my Brazen, I seem to get the best results when I don't insert carafe and forget about it. One hour long steep was delicious!


----------



## the_partisan

My Moccamaster (normal one) also had issues with 500g brews in terms of consistency, but perhaps that filter holder is more forgiving. Removing the carafe just for pre-infusion might not make difference, it seems the water pools just around the filter anyway (since it's not a snug fit like in a V60).


----------



## the_partisan

Did a few more brews todays, not messing with the carafe, changing grind size only.

The best tasting one was at 15% EY (!) and was rather thin, anything finer tasted very bitter even though brews are quite clear. By grinding very fine, I could even get 22.5% EY but just tasted terrible. I don't know if it's because of too little batch size or something to do with the temp. I'm using 202F (94C), I wonder if the temp is too high perhaps.. This is quite a dark roast that I don't really care for (from Ozone), maybe this is not helping.


----------



## the_partisan

I tried using a Kalita Wave 185 on top of the thermos, without the filter holder and with a scale underneath to give it a little more height - and this worked surprisingly well!

I used the same grind size (#14) and ratio (32.g/500g) and just using the original basket my EY at this setting was 16.3%. With the Kalita instead of the original basket the EY is 20% and coffee tasted actually very good and vibrant. The brew still happens relatively quickly (finished around 2:45 including the 45 sec pre-infusion) but still was able to extract well.

The bad thing is that the front LCD panel tends to steam this way due to condensation, hope this won't break it.


----------



## Step21

Reminds me of my experimentation with the machine! As you have discovered the filter basket really limits extraction compared to the wave filters. There are some other basket filters you could try like Bunn.

I did experiments with it as a manual pour over and it worked well, but day to day it's just too much of a faff for me.

If you can find the sweet spot for this machine and I reckon that to be in the 750-900g area it's probably a great machine, otherwise it seems inconsistent.

I wonder how many of the original buyers on the thread still use it day to day?


----------



## the_partisan

Yes, it seems the wave filters are too small and spread out in the basket. You could have some kind of cone-shaped insert which could hold the shape a little better. I think the Bunn filters should work well with 1L brews. When using the wave instead of the built in basket it's not really more faff than just doing a brew normally. The only limitation is that you're bound by the default pulsing, doing it manually might be an improvement however then you basically have to stand around while the coffee is brewing.


----------



## PPapa

I did try a manual pulse, but it's rather a lot more faff. The reason I got a Brazen is so that I can brew once in a while.

8.5 on ek... 








Rather tasty, but my filter taste buds have been hibernating for too long...

I'd be tempted to back to manual brews, but then Stagg EKG is not available in UK yet!


----------



## Step21

the_partisan said:


> I tried using a Kalita Wave 185 on top of the thermos, without the filter holder and with a scale underneath to give it a little more height - and this worked surprisingly well!


 How did you get the coffee in the thermos? Does the 185 balance on top with the lid off?

It's just very slightly short for a small (3-6) cup chemex unfortunately. I think I sat my brewer on a tall French press jug with scales under.


----------



## the_partisan

Yes the 185 (steel) fits fine. The origami brewer also fits quite nicely. Haven't really tested both back to back to see if there would be any difference though, Origami might have a bit faster flow rate. When brewing 30-32g the preprogrammed pulse seems to work reasonably OK, though I think if you would do it manually you'd do a smaller pre-infusion and stretch out the other pours a bit. But yes doing it manually every time seems to go into "too much faff" territory. The steaming of the front panel is also bit annoying.


----------



## PPapa

the_partisan said:


> Yes the 185 (steel) fits fine. The origami brewer also fits quite nicely. Haven't really tested both back to back to see if there would be any difference though, Origami might have a bit faster flow rate. When brewing 30-32g the preprogrammed pulse seems to work reasonably OK, though I think if you would do it manually you'd do a smaller pre-infusion and stretch out the other pours a bit. But yes doing it manually every time seems to go into "too much faff" territory. The steaming of the front panel is also bit annoying.


Does the scale fit fine for you? Lunars are too small and fall into the dip of the base.

Not having to clean carafe/brewing chamber is a win tho.


----------



## the_partisan

Yep it fits fine, I have the Brewista v1 scale.


----------



## PPapa

Is this borderline crazy? 








Got up slightly earlier for a run, forgot my LR hasn't even started warming up...


----------



## the_partisan

I'm having very good results with the 185 + Brazen setup, with extremely clean, sweet cups now. Bit worried the front LCD panel will get water inside though, there's quite a bit condensentation? I sent a mail to their support asking if that's anything to worry about. Still shocking how badly the thermos pours, it can't certainly be that hard to come up with a decent design for that?

Not sure if the clever would benefit from a showerhead?


----------



## PPapa

the_partisan said:


> Not sure if the clever would benefit from a showerhead?


It's a glorified kettle that holds temperature. I don't have a variable temperature kettle anymore, so it was handy to run around the flat without getting the water too cold again!


----------



## the_partisan

This is the reply from Behmor regarding using another brewer (I asked if it's OK with Chemex since it's mentioned in the manual..):



> Thank you for contacting us and we are glad to hear you are happy with the brewer. It is meant to be used with a Chemex, and the control panel and electronics are sealed from liquid or steam.
> 
> Enjoy the brewer!


----------



## Step21

the_partisan said:


> This is the reply from Behmor regarding using another brewer (I asked if it's OK with Chemex since it's mentioned in the manual..):


 Must be the small chemex? My one is 21.5cm tall and you'd need to add on a bit for the filter. My Brazen is boxed away in a cupboard so can't easily check if it fits but I'm sure I did try it at some point and it was too tall. Unless the machine has changed since on account of feedback? No mention of a chemex in my edition of the manual.


----------



## PPapa

Step21 said:


> Must be the small chemex? My one is 21.5cm tall and you'd need to add on a bit for the filter. My Brazen is boxed away in a cupboard so can't easily check if it fits but I'm sure I did try it at some point and it was too tall. Unless the machine has changed since on account of feedback? No mention of a chemex in my edition of the manual.


My Chemex has broken many years ago, but there's 23cm of clearance, not accounting the dip in the middle.


----------



## Nod

Step21 said:


> Reminds me of my experimentation with the machine! As you have discovered the filter basket really limits extraction compared to the wave filters. There are some other basket filters you could try like Bunn.
> I did experiments with it as a manual pour over and it worked well, but day to day it's just too much of a faff for me.
> If you can find the sweet spot for this machine and I reckon that to be in the 750-900g area it's probably a great machine, otherwise it seems inconsistent.
> I wonder how many of the original buyers on the thread still use it day to day?


Hi I was one of the original buyers and use the Behmor everyday. I have really enjoyed reading the thread and patisans experiments. I still find the brewer pretty awesome. We are not refracting and it maybe be inconsistent but for a method anyone in the department can use to make a litre of coffee it is excellent. Some brews are really delicious others are a bit flat. It is definitely best to let the temp drop a bit before drinking and the flavour comes out... I might have a play with the clever method but I tend to do more faff at home and just need an easy brew that is good enough at work which I think the behmor delivers..


----------



## Nod

We also use 185 kalita filters - no gold basket - just stick in the plastic bit and fill with coffee... def better for bigger brews - we normally make coffee for at least 3. I think 500ml is minimum volume (55gr coffee) below that it gets less reliable..


----------



## Nod

Obviously important to make sure the brewer is level and coffee nicely distributed in the filter... if not you get a hole in the coffee bed...


----------



## the_partisan

Step21 said:


> Must be the small chemex? My one is 21.5cm tall and you'd need to add on a bit for the filter. My Brazen is boxed away in a cupboard so can't easily check if it fits but I'm sure I did try it at some point and it was too tall. Unless the machine has changed since on account of feedback? No mention of a chemex in my edition of the manual.


 This was in the manual:



> Manual Release Button: Use to enter the manual release mode, which allows the user to release the water into a pitcher, Chemex, or other container instead of the Brazen Plus carafe. To brew coffee in manual mode, the filter basket should be removed and allow the showerhead to dispense water directly into the designated container. Leaving the filter basket in place during manual mode can overfill the filter basket.


 With 185 I'm not sure if you'd be able to do a full batch, they're on the smaller side. I've ordered some Bunn filters and those should work fine when making a full batch, I think.


----------



## Step21

PPapa said:


> My Chemex has broken many years ago, but there's 23cm of clearance, not accounting the dip in the middle.


 Thanks. Don't think it would be possible once a filter is on top.

Are you using manual mode for the 185 brews on top of the carafe or auto?


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## Step21

I found the 185 filters to be too small for brews near the max. Coffee particles would end up in the brew. Bunn would be better for max brews

Good to hear you are still using yours and getting results.


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## the_partisan

Step21 said:


> Thanks. Don't think it would be possible once a filter is on top.
> 
> Are you using manual mode for the 185 brews on top of the carafe or auto?


 The normal brew mode, haven't tried the manual mode yet.


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## Step21

the_partisan said:


> The normal brew mode, haven't tried the manual mode yet.


 I never tried normal brew mode into another vessel. Not sure it's recommended as such? Not that it matters if it works of course.

My recollection of manual mode was that it pulsed about 70ml each time


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## the_partisan

Step21 said:


> I never tried normal brew mode into another vessel. Not sure it's recommended as such? Not that it matters if it works of course.
> 
> My recollection of manual mode was that it pulsed about 70ml each time


 With the manual mode you can control the length of the pulses, but the dispersion through the shower head isn't quite uniform each time, since there isn't a pump and depends which way the water flows (I think). In standard mode I think each pulse is around 130-150g, it would do around 4 pulses total for a 500ml brew.


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## Step21

the_partisan said:


> With the manual mode you can control the length of the pulses, but the dispersion through the shower head isn't quite uniform each time, since there isn't a pump and depends which way the water flows (I think). In standard mode I think each pulse is around 130-150g, it would do around 4 pulses total for a 500ml brew.


 I wonder if that was an enhancement to control pulse length. I'll follow your progress with the machine with interest but I'm not tempted to unbox it just yet. I can't ever see it being good at 225/250g brew sizes.


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## the_partisan

I was measuring the pulses today - each pulse takes around 15 seconds and disperses about 130g of water. So for a 500g brew it's doing 4 pulses in total, including the pre-infusion. I think after pre-infusion it's 15 to 20 sec between the pulses. I can imagine this working pretty well for a full batch. I also wish it would utilize all of the showerhead evenly, which doesn't seem to be the case, sometimes water comes out of only the front holes, and sometimes the middle. I think it might work even better with a december dripper since you can restrict the flow rate further. I don't think it's worth using for 250g brews though.


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## Step21

the_partisan said:


> I was measuring the pulses today - each pulse takes around 15 seconds and disperses about 130g of water. So for a 500g brew it's doing 4 pulses in total, including the pre-infusion. I think after pre-infusion it's 15 to 20 sec between the pulses. I can imagine this working pretty well for a full batch. I also wish it would utilize all of the showerhead evenly, which doesn't seem to be the case, sometimes water comes out of only the front holes, and sometimes the middle. I think it might work even better with a december dripper since you can restrict the flow rate further. I don't think it's worth using for 250g brews though.


 I think that's a reason some brews end up looking pitted as it doesn't vary the holes it uses enough. It seems odd that it doesn't use all the holes. No two brews seem to turn out the same.

Another possibility might be the Brewista steeping brewer which is a basket shape and takes 185 or larger filters and has a lever shut off valve and a single central hole? This was going very cheap a while back. Not sure if they still make them.

Brewista also had their own branded 185 filters which drained slower than the Kalita ones but again they seem unavailable now. I got the brewer and filters from Coffee Hit a couple of years ago.


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## the_partisan

For what it's worth I've also got the Bunn filters now for full batches. I tried making one 500ml and one 1L on a bad batch of beans to test EY.

Using same grind size and the basket with the bunn filters:

30g/500ml 14.5% EY
60g/1L 19.5% EY (this actually tested decent given the water and beans I were using)

It looks like these machines aren't really QC'd for anything less than a full batch.

I've had some really good brews with using Kalita 185 instead of stock basket for 500ml brews, but also a few which were poor - so still have to test more.


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## the_partisan

For the other owners here, when you calibrate the Brazen, should the temp actually go up to 100C? It seems to end at 93-95C for me even though the water is violently boiling. Not sure if this effect brew temp or not - if it thought water was boiling at 95C and I set the brewer to 94C I would expect a lot of water/steam to come out of the lid during a brew.


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## the_partisan

I contacted their support about minimum brew size and here is the response:



> The system really isn't best suited for less than 6 cups given its dynamics, and ground basket configuration. Thinking about designs of other brewers only one designed specifically for smaller pots would do well given how they too are designed. We also do not recommend brewing less than 6 cup batches as it affects the character of the cup and possibly the brewer itself.
> 
> We are looking into an insert for the brew basket that will allow the option of a 2-4 cup brew in the future.


 Not surprising given my experience, but at least I like how honest they were about it and I like the idea of the insert.


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## ashcroc

Good news that they're thinking of a solution.


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## PPapa

Props to Behmor for making a solution that won't require buying a new brewer.


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## jlarkin

PPapa said:


> Props to Behmor for making a solution that won't require buying a new brewer.


 Or "looking into" it anyway


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