# Aeropress which method do you use?



## igm45

As I walked to work this morning I felt it was time for an AP change. It seems I tried a few when techniques I first got the AP but settled on one and haven't tried any others for a long time.

My method is 12g coffee, 220 ml water, insert plunger in then lift to secure a vacuum. Steep for 2 minutes, plunger out 2 min 30 seconds drip through, final 30 seconds of gently depression of the plunger until you hear hissing at around 5 minutes.

What are your 'go to' methods?


----------



## garethuk

Here's the one I use from Horsham Coffee


----------



## garethuk

I really enjoy this method, not quite as strong as the coffee I was getting from the traditional method.

Will give your method a go though.


----------



## Nopapercup

I'm back on the Aeropress for a while as I don't have my Pavoni with me. Having failed miserably in the past to make a decent cup things are improving.

My current method is:

15g coffee,

Aergrind setting 1.9, boil kettle then lift the lid to get it to cool faster.

Inverted method, 200ml of water, stir 10times straight away. I'm sure the number of stirs makes no difference but don't listen to me I'm crap at this.

Leave for 1 minute from when I stopped pouring the water.

Flip onto cup and press down. The lower the temp the better it tastes.

In the past I've tried steeps of 30 min and everything in between and nothing worked for me although following a 75g to 1Litre ratio seems to make sense which I didn't do before.


----------



## Tag1260

Inverted. 17 grams. 85c degrees. 30 second bloom. Stir. Fill Aeropress to the top. At 2:00 stir again. At 2:20-2:30 press. I don't get so technical as to weighing anything but the coffee as I use mine on the go a lot and a scale is just too much. However, I feel if you use it enough you don't need a scale and can just eyeball what you're doing.


----------



## Ladycoffeegeek

Hello! I use the "normal" method.

I like my coffee flavoursome and quite strong. I usually put 14 to 15g of freshly ground coffee.

I pour my water to Level 2, stir a bit and wait around 15 seconds. Then I add my water to level 4 and close with the plunger (making a suction effet to avoid big drips). I wait around 40 seconds before slowly pressing down to get my coffee.

I use an E&B lab permanent filter.

Then it all definitely depends on the coffee you use. I now live in France and my favourite right now is La Bolsa from Cafés Lugat. It is very aromatic. A real treat!


----------



## caffn8me

I grind 28g of medium to light roast beans to a very fine grind (3 on an original version Gaggia MDF which is finer than Illy pre-ground espresso)

I add water at 85C up to the 4 on the AeroPress and stir.

Then I gently insert the plunger but don't bother to pull it back slightly and leave it for at least four minutes. I stir again and then plunge forcefully - which is really hard work.

To finish I add hot water and a small amount of milk to my mug to give me a pint of coffee.


----------



## ashcroc

caffn8me said:


> I grind 28g of medium to light roast beans to a very fine grind (3 on an original version Gaggia MDF which is finer than Illy pre-ground espresso)
> 
> I add water at 85C up to the 4 on the AeroPress and stir.
> 
> Then I gently insert the plunger but don't bother to pull it back slightly and leave it for at least four minutes. I stir again and then plunge forcefully - which is really hard work.
> 
> To finish I add hot water and a small amount of milk to my mug to give me a pint of coffee.


Try plunging with a more gentle pressure. Pressing forcefully tends to block the filter making it harder. There's a vid somewhere on YouTube with the creator just leaning his arm on it while he chats along!


----------



## garethuk

@igm45 tried the method you mentioned above, it was very nice!, a good clean cup

Have you tried it with a getting a larger final output?

How goes your Aeropress experiments?


----------



## Komatoes

The instructions on the Crankhouse coffee website for AP works for me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Jony

Will blow the dust off my AP and try CH later on this week.


----------



## Dash

Ladycoffeegeek said:


> Hello! I use the "normal" method.
> 
> I like my coffee flavoursome and quite strong. I usually put 14 to 15g of freshly ground coffee.
> 
> I pour my water to Level 2, stir a bit and wait around 15 seconds. Then I add my water to level 4 and close with the plunger (making a suction effet to avoid big drips). I wait around 40 seconds before slowly pressing down to get my coffee.
> 
> I use an E&B lab permanent filter.
> 
> Then it all definitely depends on the coffee you use. I now live in France and my favourite right now is La Bolsa from Cafés Lugat. It is very aromatic. A real treat!


 I also use an E&B lab permanent filter and was wondering what your cleanup process is like with it? I always find I have a layer of grounds left on the filter which are a bit hard/annoying to remove.

I'm trying to make 'espresso-like', so use 20g coffee, 60g water, steep for 1 min, inverted method.


----------



## kennyboy993

Any tips on getting more flavour from aeropress brews?

I use with light and medium/light roasts and have found them to be a bit flat lately - I get much better flavour definition from an americano

By flavour I mean notes, eg the notes mention on bean description from roaster

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB

kennyboy993 said:


> Any tips on getting more flavour from aeropress brews?
> 
> I use with light and medium/light roasts and have found them to be a bit flat lately - I get much better flavour definition from an americano
> 
> By flavour I mean notes, eg the notes mention on bean description from roaster
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Grind fine (moka pot, just coarser than espresso), steep for 20 min (covered, or right way up with plunger in), plunge into clean cup (pre-heat if you like), stop when you see the dry bed. Don't go mad on brew ratio 55-60g/L can be OK.

Or, go the other way, 70g/L, stir, steep for 60-90s or so then plunge.

Out of interest, what is the dose & final weight of the Americano that you prefer? What's your method for AP at the minute?


----------



## Jony

Going to try a Aeropress never really got one dealt with.


----------



## kennyboy993

MWJB said:


> Grind fine (moka pot, just coarser than espresso), steep for 20 min (covered, or right way up with plunger in), plunge into clean cup (pre-heat if you like), stop when you see the dry bed. Don't go mad on brew ratio 55-60g/L can be OK.
> 
> Or, go the other way, 70g/L, stir, steep for 60-90s or so then plunge.
> 
> Out of interest, what is the dose & final weight of the Americano that you prefer? What's your method for AP at the minute?


 Thanks MWJB, will try this - though the 20mins is a bit steep for me (no pun intended) - I'd be ok reheating the drink in a microwave as I often make an aeropress as a travel drink?

I'm currently 16g in, 95 degrees, fill to top inverted, 10 stirs, 2 mins brew no bloom, press then top up with boiling water to fill mug

I'm grinding about twice as coarse as espresso on my Niche - something that feels like table salt


----------



## MWJB

kennyboy993 said:


> Thanks MWJB, will try this - though the 20mins is a bit steep for me (no pun intended) - I'd be ok reheating the drink in a microwave as I often make an aeropress as a travel drink?
> 
> I'm currently 16g in, 95 degrees, fill to top inverted, 10 stirs, 2 mins brew no bloom, press then top up with boiling water to fill mug
> 
> I'm grinding about twice as coarse as espresso on my Niche - something that feels like table salt


 How big is your mug (in oz/mL)? Not sure why you would add water to a 16g:230g fast steep.

You mentioned Americano, what is the dose size & final drink weight?

Yes you can reheat in a microwave, but if the travel cup is preheated you might be OK, maybe cut down to 10-15min if you can still get the flavour balance.

What's the number on the Niche dial? Why can't you go finer? I've just ground at 53 on the Niche for V60 and it doesn't look as coarse as table salt.


----------



## kennyboy993

Standard sized good old British tea mug - not sure what ml it is. I find after emptying the aeropress I need to top up a small amount of water to fill the mug - the only reason I do this is because I like a full mug of coffee.

Americano - again a full mug. I use a 36g espresso as the basis for it

Niche number is around 23 - I could go finer, just never tried..... I never really thought if that would bring out more flavours


----------



## MWJB

kennyboy993 said:


> Standard sized good old British tea mug - not sure what ml it is. I find after emptying the aeropress I need to top up a small amount of water to fill the mug - the only reason I do this is because I like a full mug of coffee.
> 
> Americano - again a full mug. I use a 36g espresso as the basis for it
> 
> Niche number is around 23 - I could go finer, just never tried..... I never really thought if that would bring out more flavours


 23 doesn't sound too bad, if things get too silty when you go finer, you can always just go back to 23? Don't worry about over-extraction, it won't happen. Just worry about siltiness/charred flavours/bitterness from grinding too fine.

OK, my 'standard' mug in front of me holds ~300ml (10fl oz, 9.3cm tall x 7.2cm hole) to the brim. To have drink that is comfortable without being super-spillable, maybe 250-270ml. (I don't like big doses of coffee, so I brew with <14g and it's never got more than 180g of coffee in it.)

260ml/16g = 16.3:1. This is quite a bit weaker than most people would brew a cup of filter coffee with 16g.

If you use 18:36g (?) for the big Americano, why do think you can brew an immersion (slower process) to a similar strength with 16g? 18:260g is more typical a ratio for a cup of filter coffee.

The fast steep is going to err on the low side of extraction, to get filter coffee strength I'd be using at least 20g dose for 260ml in the cup. If it was a big mug at 12oz/360ml, I'd scale up the dose accordingly.


----------



## kennyboy993

Great tips, thanks MWJB - I'll try finer and also your long brew method



> If you use 18:36g (?) for the big Americano, why do think you can brew an immersion (slower process) to a similar strength with 16g? 18:260g is more typical a ratio for a cup of filter coffee


 I don't think an immersion process with 16g with give a similar strength - the 2g difference in coffee to drink ratio wouldn't have the difference in flavours that I'm experiencing. However I will give the 18g a try


----------



## MWJB

kennyboy993 said:


> Great tips, thanks MWJB - I'll try finer and also your long brew method
> 
> I don't think an immersion process with 16g with give a similar strength - the 2g difference in coffee to drink ratio wouldn't have the difference in flavours that I'm experiencing. However I will give the 18g a try


 The 16g immersion could be 10-25% weaker than the 18g Americano diluted to 260g. That's going to be quite noticeable, not subtle. It's often recommended that people updose by around 15% for shorter steep immersions, compared to percolation, to get equivalent strength.

I don't know if the long steep will work very well if you're going to dilute it afterwards (I've never used an Aeropress to make more coffee than it can hold in 1 go, you might be able to get 270-280g water in there if you brew right way up?), but give it a go & report back.


----------



## kennyboy993

Ah ok - I didn't realise that

I'll try with 18g - and I'll also try not topping up with more waster, see what the stronger drink tastes like.

For the 20 min brew - what water temp you suggest?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB

kennyboy993 said:


> For the 20 min brew - what water temp you suggest?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Always right off the boil.


----------



## KingoftheHeath

I use mine at work and it's all guesswork, have never measured anything. I suppose I could take it home and do some more scientific tests using scales timers and thermometers, might do that in the future.

Scoop and a half of coffee - roughly 20g. Inverted. 
Cover with water (the maintenance guy was once running checks on our urn and he measured water temp at 93c) - stir and 30 second bloom. Water up to the number 3, stir. Steep for 2 minutes. Plunge, taking15 secs, until I hear the hiss. It requires force to plunge but not massive effort. I find that when plunging is no effort it produces a cup which is not to my liking.

At work I'm just after a drink which packs a punch and upping the dose from 1 scoop to 1.5 has taken my cup from too clean (for my preference) to nice and full bodied with chocolatey notes.

What is that compressed band in the middle of my puck?


----------



## Jez H

Are you sure that's not a chocolate sponge?


----------



## KingoftheHeath




----------



## AJSK66

It does look deceptively tasty.

I would have thought layers in the puck like that have something to do with grind consistency, but not 100% sure

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk


----------



## Ladycoffeegeek

Dash said:


> I also use an E&B lab permanent filter and was wondering what your cleanup process is like with it? I always find I have a layer of grounds left on the filter which are a bit hard/annoying to remove.
> 
> I'm trying to make 'espresso-like', so use 20g coffee, 60g water, steep for 1 min, inverted method.


 Hello,

I just rinse it under the tap and blow through it if I see any clogging. I have had mine for almost a year and it is still doing the job.


----------



## BenJohnMiller

I'm a big fan of letting things stew for a while. So when I'm using my Aeropress, I'll always use the inverted method. Coarse grind, steep for about 4 mins, wallop onto the mug. I use the same method for my Clever Dripper too ?


----------



## TomHughes

I've just started a new job, my previous one I had my own studio and with it my gaggia classic etc.

But now I'm in an office with a shared kitchen so I'm using an Aeropress.

I am using freshly roasted and ground beans (porlex) but I'm massively underwhelmed!

Am I missing something. So far I think I'd prefer a French press.

Rough recipe is 18g in, 200ml water, 90ish deg. 4 min brew, grind slightly coarser than espresso.


----------



## KingoftheHeath

TomHughes said:


> I've just started a new job, my previous one I had my own studio and with it my gaggia classic etc.
> 
> But now I'm in an office with a shared kitchen so I'm using an Aeropress.
> 
> I am using freshly roasted and ground beans (porlex) but I'm massively underwhelmed!
> 
> Am I missing something. So far I think I'd prefer a French press.
> 
> Rough recipe is 18g in, 200ml water, 90ish deg. 4 min brew, grind slightly coarser than espresso.


 I don't understand why, but whenever I've used 'proper' coffee in the Aeropress my results have been dreadful. Now, the massive caveat to that is the closest I've got to 'fresh' is getting the shop (Quarter Horse, Birmingham) to grind for me. The results in the cup have been some kind of yellow acidic dishwater. I really need to take it home and experiment properly.

Anyway, I use supermarket pre-ground and since increasing my dose by 50% (1.5 scoops) I've finally been pleased with the results from an Aeropress - gives me something more akin to a French Press but with an infinitely easier clear up (no one wants to be 'that guy' who uses a French Press and leaves fines all over the sink/kitchen). I do taste something beyond 'hot' - some nice rich chocolate notes in there, which is all I'm after at work.


----------



## MWJB

TomHughes said:


> I've just started a new job, my previous one I had my own studio and with it my gaggia classic etc.
> 
> But now I'm in an office with a shared kitchen so I'm using an Aeropress.
> 
> I am using freshly roasted and ground beans (porlex) but I'm massively underwhelmed!
> 
> Am I missing something. So far I think I'd prefer a French press.
> 
> Rough recipe is 18g in, 200ml water, 90ish deg. 4 min brew, grind slightly coarser than espresso.


 How would you describe what is wrong? Weak, too intense, bland?

Maybe cut back on the brew ratio a little? 14 or 15g for 200g of water should still be OK.

I'd use water right off the boil. Everything is going to cool down quick anyway.

How many clicks out from locked burrs are you?

I don't think you're going to see much difference between a 3:00 brew and a 4:00 brew. You have to steep a lot longer to really push things on, but most seem to find a minute to 2min steep works OK for a 1:14/15 brew ratio.

I don't press through to the hiss. I stop when I see the coffee bed.


----------



## MWJB

KingoftheHeath said:


> I don't understand why, but whenever I've used 'proper' coffee in the Aeropress my results have been dreadful. Now, the massive caveat to that is the closest I've got to 'fresh' is getting the shop (Quarter Horse, Birmingham) to grind for me. The results in the cup have been some kind of yellow acidic dishwater. I really need to take it home and experiment properly.
> 
> Anyway, I use supermarket pre-ground and since increasing my dose by 50% (1.5 scoops) I've finally been pleased with the results from an Aeropress - gives me something more akin to a French Press but with an infinitely easier clear up (no one wants to be 'that guy' who uses a French Press and leaves fines all over the sink/kitchen). I do taste something beyond 'hot' - some nice rich chocolate notes in there, which is all I'm after at work.


 A scoop is only around 10-11g of coffee (2 tablespoons), if you're going for filter coffee style recipes with a mugful of water, you're only going to get a tiny cup out, or weak coffee.

Acidic suggests under-extraction, so maybe a finer grind next time, or steep longer (you can steep as long as you can before the coffee is to cool to drink, which is about 20min for me, if you like it hotter you can either pre-heat the cup &/or cut the steep time to suit).


----------



## KingoftheHeath

MWJB said:


> A scoop is only around 10-11g of coffee (2 tablespoons), if you're going for filter coffee style recipes with a mugful of water, you're only going to get a tiny cup out, or weak coffee.
> Acidic suggests under-extraction, so maybe a finer grind next time, or steep longer (you can steep as long as you can before the coffee is to cool to drink, which is about 20min for me, if you like it hotter you can either pre-heat the cup &/or cut the steep time to suit).


Thank you. Just goes to show my need to take it
home and actually measure everything.


----------



## TomHughes

MWJB said:


> How would you describe what is wrong? Weak, too intense, bland?
> 
> *Bland, a little weak. I guess I am used to a 19g double (36 out) and 200ml water*
> 
> Maybe cut back on the brew ratio a little? 14 or 15g for 200g of water should still be OK.
> 
> *Will give that a try*
> 
> I'd use water right off the boil. Everything is going to cool down quick anyway.
> 
> *Will do*
> 
> How many clicks out from locked burrs are you?
> 
> *2*
> 
> I don't think you're going to see much difference between a 3:00 brew and a 4:00 brew. You have to steep a lot longer to really push things on, but most seem to find a minute to 2min steep works OK for a 1:14/15 brew ratio.
> 
> I don't press through to the hiss. I stop when I see the coffee bed.
> 
> *Why is that?*


----------



## MWJB

TomHughes said:


> How would you describe what is wrong? Weak, too intense, bland? *Bland, a little weak. I guess I am used to a 19g double (36 out) and 200ml water*
> 
> How many clicks out from locked burrs are you? *2*
> 
> I don't press through to the hiss. I stop when I see the coffee bed. *Why is that?*


 OK, 236/19 = 12.4:1 beverage to dose. It's unlikely with any short steep Aeropress that you'll hit equivalent strength at the same cup ratio as a percolation, so if you need more strength from the Aeropress, I'd be looking at 23g of coffee for 236g out (you'd need to fit 280-290g in the brewer...sounds a bit of a squeeze, perhaps you can scale down at around 1:11/12 brew ratio?). Be aware that brewing with a lot of coffee to water will cut down extraction some, the output is likely to be simpler tasting, but you can still hit tasty, sweet brews.

2 clicks from lock up on a Porlex is very fine indeed, I'd go a tad coarser, see how you go at 4 or 5 clicks? It is possible to grind so fine that the water doesn't mix properly with the coffee & extraction drops, be sure to stir once you've added the water, gently sink anything still floating before you plunge.

I tend to find that pressing all the way through can make the drink a little silty & more bitter/charred tasting.


----------



## NikonGuy

TomHughes said:


> I've just started a new job, my previous one I had my own studio and with it my gaggia classic etc.
> 
> But now I'm in an office with a shared kitchen so I'm using an Aeropress.
> 
> I am using freshly roasted and ground beans (porlex) but I'm massively underwhelmed!
> 
> Am I missing something. So far I think I'd prefer a French press.
> 
> Rough recipe is 18g in, 200ml water, 90ish deg. 4 min brew, grind slightly coarser than espresso.


 I use 20g inverted, stir and brew for 15 mins, gives a much better cup IMHO. I like a strong coffee...

Try it and see what you think.


----------



## Voocash

Coffee grounds: 14-18g depending on the grind and roast level


Grind setting: medium to coarse


Always Inverted



Pour 30g of water 90C for 0:30


After that top it up with water to the top. Steep 1:30min


Plunge between 15-30s. Don't force push it too much otherwise coffee will get muddy.


Add extra 50g of water to the cup to balance the strength. Done.


Sometimes I use Aeropress Randomizer: https://thewinniewu.github.io/aeropress-dice/

I also tried different recipes from this article https://handground.com/grind/66-recipes-for-amazing-aeropress-coffee


----------



## jan55

I use inverted, 18g coffee ground to medium/fine, 90c water and 2-2.5min brew time.


----------



## hotmetal

I can't remember if I have posted on this thread previously but I've crystallised out at one same-same method for ease and tidyness rather than any advanced brew foo.

Inverted, more or less because it's the least drippy.

15g beans, as I have some little pots that hold almost exactly 15g depending on bean. This seems to be the best amount (roughly) for the AP depending on bean solubility and water quantity.

Grind, I never stray too far from 1:6 on my Aergrind, although I will adjust for each bean if I think I can get more from it.

Water, I don't have a fancy kettle so 'a minute off boil' is close enough.

Pour in 50g water, bloom briefly, stir in the rest to 250g (265 inc coffee, if I forget to tare). Leave for 2 minutes, flip onto mug, and either press immediately until just before the hiss, or occasionally I'll do a 10 minute steep and then pull the plunger out for a gravity drip if I have the time. I like the long steeps, they seem to pull out more flavour, and letting the water drip out under gravity seems to produce a slightly cleaner cup. (That said, I'm using the AerDisk metal filter, but if clarity was the real aim, I'd use the paper filters). I like the mouthfeel of the metal filter.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## NikonGuy

Long steeps are the way to go with any brewing method IMHO, again this forum is full of third wave hipster nonsense on brewing.

With my Sowden I steep for around 30 mins!!


----------



## MWJB

NikonGuy said:


> Long steeps are the way to go with any brewing method IMHO, again this forum is full of third wave hipster nonsense on brewing.
> 
> With my Sowden I steep for around 30 mins!!


 I do 70min with my 1200ml Sowden & Bodum Colombias. 20min is about the max for an Aeropress before temp is too low for me & I either steep right way up, so the plunger can double as a lid, or use a large watchglass as a lid inverted.

For best results, sure, I like to go as long as can. But when in the office say, where there are time constraints & using say a Clever, I'm happy enough to go for ~2:30steep (plus draw down), for a 'good enough' result, especially for first cup of the day.

If I have such thing as a vague rule of thumb, it's that pourover can take ~5x longer than espresso & immersions can take ~10x longer than drip


----------



## NikonGuy

MWJB said:


> I do 70min with my 1200ml Sowden & Bodum Colombias. 20min is about the max for an Aeropress before temp is too low for me & I either steep right way up, so the plunger can double as a lid, or use a large watchglass as a lid inverted.
> 
> For best results, sure, I like to go as long as can. But when in the office say, where there are time constraints & using say a Clever, I'm happy enough to go for ~2:30steep (plus draw down), for a 'good enough' result, especially for first cup of the day.
> 
> If I have such thing as a vague rule of thumb, it's that pourover can take ~5x longer than espresso & immersions can take ~10x longer than drip ?


 Wow, I have a kindred spirit on these forums! ?

I use 15min for Aeropress, I will try the watch glass idea thanks.

To you have an optimum drinking temp for your Sowden? Must admit I have not used my Sowden for years...


----------



## MWJB

NikonGuy said:


> Wow, I have a kindred spirit on these forums!
> 
> I use 15min for Aeropress, I will try the watch glass idea thanks.
> 
> To you have an optimum drinking temp for your Sowden? Must admit I have not used my Sowden for years...


 I seem to enjoy any coffee best around 50c or a little more. So I don't tend to pour a Sowden until the brew has dropped under 60c. Plenty of time to preheat the cups


----------



## TomHughes

So I tried the long steep today. 
20g in. 200ml. Around 90-95 deg (no temp gauge)

Coffee was a Honduran Marcala roasted just into 2C

Long steep for 15 mins. 
Slow push stopping at the fizz.

Much much improved flavour. More sweetness and intensity of flavour


----------



## Skizz

This thread is fascinating. Made me realise I've been using an Aeropress for so long I'm stuck in a brew rut. Going to try some of your alternatives to spice things up a bit. Brew swap, anyone?

My method's so well trodden it's practically muscle memory and just kind of happens on it's own around 5:30-6:00 each morning.Took a while to figure out what I actually do and when:



Inverted with wetted plunger-cap just hidden inside the cylinder


16g coffee, medium to med-fine: 5 clicks from closed on Porlex or 2.1 to 2.3 on Feld 47 (still experimenting with the Feld)


Freshly boiled filtered water poured from kettle into crappy Ikea 500ml steaming jug, also rinse filter in filter-cap


Start: water at 82-84 degC, (checked with Thermapen) pour from jug into AP until just covering grounds, agitate/excavate from side to side (with original AP stirrer) to get everything wet, leave stirrer in cylinder


00:15: pour to approx half way mark while stirring and agitating. Stop stirring and leave stirrer in cylinder


Pour water down face of paddle to around 10mm short of rim and stir a couple of times in each direction


Remove stirrer, attach filter-cap and flip onto top of jug


01:15: start the plunge: moderate and consistent pressure to avoid clogging and/or jetting, aim for a 30 sec plunge ending at the first squeak of air - around 01:45


Start to feel better about the world


Seems to work well with big, jammy natural finished SO stuff from Rwanda and Tanzania. That said, I'm really enjoying Horsham Coffee Roaster's El Mirador at the moment: a natural Costa Rican, Villa Sarchi & Caturra blend (according to the bag).


----------



## Jony

Going to do one tomorrow never been a fan. V60 for me Erm I mean today


----------



## TomHughes

Any reason I couldn't steep the coffee in a small thermos and then transfer to the aero press to plunge? 
Im liking the long steep but don't want to sit in the work kitchen for 15 minutes, and I don't fancy carrying a full aero press back to my office!


----------



## matted

No reason no. Grind, pour, steep, pour into invert aeropress, plunge.

15 mins, not sure i have the patience....


----------



## TomHughes

matted said:


> No reason no. Grind, pour, steep, pour into invert aeropress, plunge.
> 
> 15 mins, not sure i have the patience....


 I didn't think I did, but the drink was worth it! 
Don't think I can wait that long in the morning though, so it's my work coffee choice. Get 15 mins of writing done then I can earn my coffee!


----------



## KingoftheHeath

So I'm just having my first ever 'proper coffee' aeropress in that I ground whole beans this morning and brought them to work. I've had Quarter Horse in Brum grind me a bag before, but the results were undrinkable pond water - ground way too coarse.

The level of fruit and sweetness I'm getting is like nothing I've had before! Not perfect as I think I could grind a touch finer, but will definitely be repeating the "grind 'n' bring" from now on.

Beans are the Chinese one from Quarter Horse, part of this month's Dog and Hat delivery.

P.s - Did maybe a 7 minute steep, which is much longer than normal


----------



## KingoftheHeath

KingoftheHeath said:


> So I'm just having my first ever 'proper coffee' aeropress in that I ground whole beans this morning and brought them to work. I've had Quarter Horse in Brum grind me a bag before, but the results were undrinkable pond water - ground way too coarse.
> 
> The level of fruit and sweetness I'm getting is like nothing I've had before! Not perfect as I think I could grind a touch finer, but will definitely be repeating the "grind 'n' bring" from now on.
> 
> Beans are the Chinese one from Quarter Horse, part of this month's Dog and Hat delivery.
> 
> P.s - Did maybe a 7 minute steep, which is much longer than normal


Anyone got a nifty method of bringing in ground coffee from home i.e recommendation for a suitable receptacle?

Or do I get a handgrinder?


----------



## Jony

Hand Grinder. Don't cheap out.


----------



## KingoftheHeath

I love getting myself new toys!

I also love researching the new toys before I buy them, will get on the case...

It will, however, be further evidence to all my colleagues that I'm a pretentious snob


----------



## Jony

Feld 2 I have or the new one at Bella Barista


----------



## TomHughes

Definitely get a hand grinder. 
I wasn't sold on the aero press at all, but thanks to a few suggestions on here I am now making really nice cups with it.

What worked for me was

Grind freshly
Grind tad courser but not too coarse. 
Pour in straight off the rolling boil, see James Hoffmans latest video, as others have said the heat loss is huge. 
Leave for at least 15 mins. - Contrary to what the lady in the lunch room thought this doesn't end up in over extracted coffee.

I tested the same coffee (Med-Dark Honduran Marcala blended with Med roast Sidamo) - low TDS water.

same dose (20g) etc. and left it for 5, 10, 15 and 20 minutes. 
When tasting this is what happened.

5 mins - a little bitter and underwhelming. flavour was quite flat. Body was low. Overall rubbish. Was the Sidamo even in there? 
Burnt chocolate no nuts.

10 mins - Still a tad bitter but a little extra sweetness. A touch fruitier too (Ethiopian emerging)

15 mins - now we are talking. Less bitterness, a touch fruity, really pleasant sweetness.

20 mins - same as 15 mins.

Thanks go out to @MWJB


----------



## Rickv

How corse is everyone grinding? I think I'm grinding way too fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB

Rickv said:


> How corse is everyone grinding? I think I'm grinding way too fine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 You can brew espresso fine if you're careful (some folk have used AP to filter Turkish coffee), but probably just a tad coarser than that, like moka pot range, would be fairly normal.

If you're way to fine you'll probably see & feel excessive silt/sediment.

I have brewed at V60/drip range with fair results but it's slightly more faffy method & 5min mimimum.


----------



## Rickv

A little bit of slit but just a real lack of depth of flavours. Just taste meh. Maybe it needs another day or two to rest as roasted on the 2/3/20. I'll try coarser. I swear my aergrind settings are way off what I've read online. Two turns from lock out and it's still espresso/Turkish fine. Cheers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB

Rickv said:


> A little bit of slit but just a real lack of depth of flavours. Just taste meh. Maybe it needs another day or two to rest as roasted on the 2/3/20. I'll try coarser. I swear my aergrind settings are way off what I've read online. Two turns from lock out and it's still espresso/Turkish fine. Cheers.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 How much coffee to water & what timings are you using?


----------



## Rickv

Using the Brewtime app. So 15 grams of coffee and just shy of 250 grams of water. Time of 1.35.









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## matted

Increase brewing time. At least 3 mins or more as others describe.

Ratio of 60g to 1 litro sounds fine.

What beans / roaster?


----------



## MWJB

You could go a bit higher on the coffee too, for shorter steeps, 65-70g/L (I even do most of my drip brews in this range), but definitely give it more time.


----------



## Rickv

Fazenda Pantano, Brazil from cartwheel. Ok so I'll up my brew time. Grind coarser as well? My work colleagues think I'm mad with my science experiment set as they call it. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MWJB

Rickv said:


> Fazenda Pantano, Brazil from cartwheel. Ok so I'll up my brew time. Grind coarser as well? My work colleagues think I'm mad with my science experiment set as they call it. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Silt would be the only reason to grind coarser, it it's tolerable and not too bitter/charred tasting, I'd stay on the finer side if you can.


----------



## KingoftheHeath

@Ricky how do you find the aergrind in general?


----------



## Rickv

KingoftheHeath said:


> @Ricky how do you find the aergrind in general?


Grinder is solid. Built like a tank. No instructions come with it so have been using other people's reviews of it as a guide. Not used another hand grinder so don't have anything to compare too. I'm not one for buying and then having to upgrade later on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TomHughes

Rickv said:


> Fazenda Pantano, Brazil from cartwheel. Ok so I'll up my brew time. Grind coarser as well? My work colleagues think I'm mad with my science experiment set as they call it. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 You should take a syphon to work, then they'll think you're the new Walter White


----------



## Rickv

TomHughes said:


> You should take a syphon to work, then they'll think you're the new Walter White


The scales blew their minds already 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## matted

TomHughes said:


> I didn't think I did, but the drink was worth it!
> Don't think I can wait that long in the morning though, so it's my work coffee choice. Get 15 mins of writing done then I can earn my coffee!


 Enjoyed a few 15 min brews over last few days ?

Much deeper and fuller mug of coffee.


----------



## jlaamweise

Inverted

16g freshly ground with my Aergrind

50ml water 1min bloom

Further 150ml taking the total to 200ml.


----------



## Gubbo89

I've been experimenting with longer brew times recently but maxing out at 10 mins - will maybe extend this to 15.

Do certain types of beans react better to shorter brew times?

Ive got a Cuban Serrano and Ethiopian Sidamo both on the go at the moment but not sure if a single brew method would work best for all types?


----------



## MWJB

Gubbo89 said:


> I've been experimenting with longer brew times recently but maxing out at 10 mins - will maybe extend this to 15.
> 
> Do certain types of beans react better to shorter brew times?
> 
> Ive got a Cuban Serrano and Ethiopian Sidamo both on the go at the moment but not sure if a single brew method would work best for all types?


 There aren't really any beans that magically extract faster than others at the same grind (different origins do extract to slightly different levels, but are all within a normal tolerance, so changes to method only need to be tiny tweaks for fine tuning...if at all). Personally, I'd aim for the longer brew time, but if you find a bean that you like at shorter brews (maybe a natural), that's entirely possible. Tasting it will tell you whether this is happening & repeatable.

My logic is, I like to drink coffee below 60c, so for steeps I don't see much reason to end the brew before then, I use a preheated cup with longer steeps too.


----------



## Andyz

Great read here, I have what might possibly be a silly question...

Lots of people talk about different notes and flavours from the brew, all depending on everything from grind, water temp, steep time and even amount of stirs.

I use an aeropress with comandante grinder, and below is my recipe.



Grind at 28 clicks, 14g (Rave signature blend)


200ml water transfered from kettle to a plastic jug, probably stands for maybe 30 secs


50ml bloom for 1 minute (don't think I need this)


150ml for 4 minutes


Slow 20ish seconds extract


Question is should this recipe work, sometimes the taste is a little bitter and I don't often get all the flavours.

Any help would be great, all I can think is maybe slightly too course and maybe water is cooling a little too much?

Cheers, Andy


----------



## MWJB

Andyz said:


> Great read here, I have what might possibly be a silly question...
> 
> Lots of people talk about different notes and flavours from the brew, all depending on everything from grind, water temp, steep time and even amount of stirs.
> 
> I use an aeropress with comandante grinder, and below is my recipe.
> 
> 
> 
> Grind at 28 clicks, 14g (Rave signature blend)
> 
> 
> 200ml water transfered from kettle to a plastic jug, probably stands for maybe 30 secs
> 
> 
> 50ml bloom for 1 minute (don't think I need this)
> 
> 
> 150ml for 4 minutes
> 
> 
> Slow 20ish seconds extract
> 
> 
> Question is should this recipe work, sometimes the taste is a little bitter and I don't often get all the flavours.
> 
> Any help would be great, all I can think is maybe slightly too course and maybe water is cooling a little too much?
> 
> Cheers, Andy


 Grind, water temp & time don't change the notes per se, the drive the extraction and if it is low, you will get less flavour clarity.

Stirring too much will make any brew bitter.

The actual coffee you use & the water you brew with have the biggest impact on notes, given a ball-park brew.

Your grind is quite coarse for a 4min steep. You can grind finer &/or steep longer.

You're right, you don't need the bloom, just get the boiling water in the brewer as quickly as you can.


----------



## Andyz

Hey MWJB,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, so I've brought the grind down to 24 clicks and added the water pretty much as soon as it boiled. Left it for a 4min steep and the results were a lot more favorable. I'm going to drop it down a couple more clicks to see how things turn out and then start increasing the steep time. Thoughts are preheat the glass and I'll be able to steep longer to retain the heat in the coffee.

Thanks, Andy


----------



## Jony

To tell you the truth. I put it in cold cup and when it starts to cool its like a mouthfull of opal fruits?


----------



## Andyz

Jony said:


> To tell you the truth. I put it in cold cup and when it starts to cool its like a mouthfull of opal fruits?


 You're obviously a man used to hitting the right spot ?


----------



## markrobbo036

Interesting reading people's techniques.

I have been following the lead of Alan Adler when it comes to brewing and doing 17g coffee -> slightly cooled from boiling water filling to 1 -> stir a bit and wait 20s -> gentle press and then dilute afterwards. I've found this to be a little sour at times so suggestions are welcome

I will also try some other people's suggestions and see what happens!


----------



## malling

I think the last time I used it, it where 12g/200g

place the Aeropress in normal position. Pour in the coffee, start the timer and ad all water at once (use of the boil water), put in the plunger to stop it from draining

. Let it sit for two till four minutes, remove the plunger, stir and remove the foam like in cupping, put in the plunger and gently plunge it with no more force then the weight of your arm/hand.

Tried the 15-20min thing I was never a big fan of it, no matter if I grinded my coffee with a handgrinder or my EK and even if I went very fine.

I pretty much always ended up using a cupping inspired brew, as I found them to be the most interesting.


----------



## MWJB

malling said:


> I pretty much always ended up using a cupping inspired brew, as I found them to be the most interesting.


 You don't separate the grounds from the coffee at 4 min in a cupping, you start tasting at 8-10min (typically, some go longer), continuing until cooled, still without separating from the grounds (other than what might be removed at the skim)..


----------



## malling

MWJB said:


> You don't separate the grounds from the coffee at 4 min in a cupping, you start tasting at 8-10min (typically, some go longer), continuing until cooled, still without separating from the grounds (other than what might be removed at the skim)..


That's true, however I usually don't taste at 10min as it's usually to warm.

I also wrote cupping inspired, as you can't really make a true copping on a Aeropress.

So either you do it at a 4min mark or stir and skim at 4 let it sit for additional 4-6min and plunge, however I doubt the latter is a good idea, as touching a settle grind at the bottom in cupping leads to over extraction.


----------



## MWJB

malling said:


> So either you do it at a 4min mark or stir and skim at 4 let it sit for additional 4-6min and plunge, however I doubt the latter is a good idea, as touching a settle grind at the bottom in cupping leads to over extraction.


 It's pretty hard to over-extract a cupping (or an Aeropress steep) the brew cools quickly & loses the energy to get a high extraction. On the other hand, it is much easier to stir up small particles, which can be bittering (these can also be flushed through the filter in an AP brew).

Might sound like a distinction without a difference, but if you control the smaller particles well enough, you find the extraction can happily go up without bitterness.


----------



## malling

MWJB said:


> It's pretty hard to over-extract a cupping (or an Aeropress steep) the brew cools quickly & loses the energy to get a high extraction. On the other hand, it is much easier to stir up small particles, which can be bittering (these can also be flushed through the filter in an AP brew).
> 
> Might sound like a distinction without a difference, but if you control the smaller particles well enough, you find the extraction can happily go up without bitterness.


Your right, over extraction might not be the right term in all cases, however there is a clear bittering with the brew when you get movement of settled grinds, as the grinds rub against each other when they are disturbed, which leads to a ruined cupping or brew (although you can still get most of the info you need)

In my testing most Aeropress over extraction happens when you stir it, steeping don't result in it, and the plunging process can mostly result in a bittering, however it doesn't really extract much in that process the few times I tested extraction before and after the plunging.

But at the end of the day it's a matter of taste preferences.

And yes being careful about not rubbing grinds against each other is important.


----------



## Akp

Spent last night reading through this post. Never thought of doing a long steep with an Aeropress. My usual process is done in 2mins.

Just extended that to 15mins and all I can say is wow. If you are using a light to medium roast I can conquer its 100% worth the wait. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Nightrider_1uk

malling said:


> Your right, over extraction might not be the right term in all cases, however there is a clear bittering with the brew when you get movement of settled grinds, as the grinds rub against each other when they are disturbed, which leads to a ruined cupping or brew (although you can still get most of the info you need)
> 
> In my testing most Aeropress over extraction happens when you stir it, steeping don't result in it, and the plunging process can mostly result in a bittering, however it doesn't really extract much in that process the few times I tested extraction before and after the plunging.
> 
> But at the end of the day it's a matter of taste preferences.
> 
> And yes being careful about not rubbing grinds against each other is important.


 i'm confused here. Surely if you use the inverted method when you two the AP onto the cup you're stirring the coffee, and the grinds will rub again each other. ~Aldo won't the grinds rub as you push down the plunger.


----------



## Gubbo89

Anyone have and 2+ cup recipes that have been tried and tested?

Tried before but came out super weak as had to dilute with water post press to make up the volume.


----------



## matted

Gubbo89 said:


> Anyone have and 2+ cup recipes that have been tried and tested?
> 
> Tried before but came out super weak as had to dilute with water post press to make up the volume.


 Use a ratio that works. I.e. my usual cup is 350mls, so depending on the coffee i scale to 2x that. Then add water to make up to the volume of the ratio.

I.e. 60g to 1 litre is a typically recommended ratio, but will vary by each coffee, some roasters provide such recommendations e.g. james gourmet.


----------



## Gubbo89

matted said:


> Use a ratio that works. I.e. my usual cup is 350mls, so depending on the coffee i scale to 2x that. Then add water to make up to the volume of the ratio.
> 
> I.e. 60g to 1 litre is a typically recommended ratio, but will vary by each coffee, some roasters provide such recommendations e.g. james gourmet.


 This is where I'm getting confused as I use 15g and normally push through 240ml but you obviously can't push 480ml through a larger dose.

Will 2 cups always be a compromise if your 1 cup recipe uses a full chamber?


----------



## matted

If I am making 2 cups at 350ml per cup for me at 25g per cup so 50g in. I grind 25g per cup, put 50g in aero press, brew as normal, then press, then add hot water to make up to 700mls

ie am making a more concentrated brew and then diluting to my preferred brew strength.


----------



## matted

see here this demo by the aeropress inventor


----------



## Mm391

I found a recipe that's for sweet balanced acidity made with any origin, with a lighter but well developed roast profile."
Coffee: 15 grams
Grind Size: Setting 6 on Porlex
Water: 250 grams at 93°C
Water-to-Coffee Ratio: 17:1
Brew Time: 3:00

Method
Pour 100g water
Bloom for 30 seconds, stir
Pour 100g, stir 
Pour remaining 50g, stir again at 2 min, put cap on and wait. 
Plunge at 2:30

seems to work nice let for me.


----------



## Gubbo89

Has anyone tried just letting it drop through aeropress?

Tried today and was definitely weaker but not unpleasant.

15g medium coarse (v60 grind).

250ml water (30secs off boil).

Pour in water, stir 10 times, leave uncovered and allow to drip through for 4.30, push anything left through with plunger and done by 5mins.


----------



## MWJB

Gubbo89 said:


> Has anyone tried just letting it drop through aeropress?
> 
> Tried today and was definitely weaker but not unpleasant.
> 
> 15g medium coarse (v60 grind).
> 
> 250ml water (30secs off boil).
> 
> Pour in water, stir 10 times, leave uncovered and allow to drip through for 4.30, push anything left through with plunger and done by 5mins.


 Yes, done a similar method, 2min steep with plunger in, then remove plunger & let drip, plunge at 4:30, all done by 5:00, stop when bed visible, V60 grind (~13% @ 400Kruve).

Only difference with the brews I did was to discard the oil that dripped through, when putting in the plunger after filling.


----------



## Gubbo89

MWJB said:


> Yes, done a similar method, 2min steep with plunger in, then remove plunger & let drip, plunge at 4:30, all done by 5:00, stop when bed visible, V60 grind (~13% @ 400Kruve).
> 
> Only difference with the brews I did was to discard the oil that dripped through, when putting in the plunger after filling.


 Will try this again with the steep first to see if it adds any more strength or a better flavour.


----------



## higbert

Depending on the coffee, a steep can make a big difference to an aeropress. Discovered by mistake when interrupted in the middle of a two minute brew...


----------



## Nightrider_1uk

Rickv said:


> How corse is everyone grinding? I think I'm grinding way too fine.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I'm grinding at 1:5 on my Feldgrind. Might take it out to 1:6 and see what results I get.


----------



## Nightrider_1uk

Nightrider_1uk said:


> i'm confused here. Surely if you use the inverted method when you two the AP onto the cup you're stirring the coffee, and the grinds will rub again each other. ~Aldo won't the grinds rub as you push down the plunger.


 Bump


----------



## malling

It might rub if you have let the grind settled and then turn it. I usually break the crust and turn it and then plunge, if you either wait until it settle or just turn it directly after the steep there is a chance you rub the coffee as it is in a settled state, that might leads to bittering of the brew.


----------



## MikeUK

markrobbo036 said:


> Interesting reading people's techniques.
> 
> I have been following the lead of Alan Adler when it comes to brewing and doing 17g coffee -> slightly cooled from boiling water filling to 1 -> stir a bit and wait 20s -> gentle press and then dilute afterwards. I've found this to be a little sour at times so suggestions are welcome
> 
> I will also try some other people's suggestions and see what happens!


 Hi Mark,

My Aeropress is arriving on Tuesday so I'm looking forward to trying different recipes. Do you find this one quite consistent?

I've never been able to get consistent V60 brews but also want something I can take to work, so figured I'd give V60 a go.

From what I've seen, making a small amount and then diluting it is quite common.


----------



## spasypaddy

does anyone use a metal filter?

im going away for 2.5 weeks and taking my aeropress with aergrind and not sure i can be bothered to take a load of filters on top of everything else but dont want to run out so contemplating a metal filter but there are so many to choose from.

Any suggestions?

is it a bad idea?


----------



## Blue_Cafe

Just reuse the paper ones.

I can get a dozen uses out of them if i push it...


----------



## spasypaddy

Blue_Cafe said:


> Just reuse the paper ones.
> 
> I can get a dozen uses out of them if i push it...


 that maybe an emergency method. will keep that in mind


----------



## Xabi17

MWJB said:


> Grind fine (moka pot, just coarser than espresso), steep for 20 min (covered, or right way up with plunger in), plunge into clean cup (pre-heat if you like), stop when you see the dry bed. Don't go mad on brew ratio 55-60g/L can be OK.


 Hi MWJB, I've just been reunited with my Aeropress after months away and would like to try a 20m steep per your comments earlier in the thread (having never previously gone over 3-4 mins). Do you mind if I ask you a couple of questions to make sure I have this right. This works on an inversion method, correct? I have a feldgrind and grinding around the 2.0 - 2.4 mark for my v60 pourovers, so will try to drag this down to 1.7 to start with and go from there perhaps?

60g/L

All water in one go straight off the bowl, quick stir then leave inverted for 20 minutes (no need to bloom etc?)

After 20m, invert aeropress correct way up (probably into pre-heated mug) and press until I hear the hiss?

Am interested to try this with my next mug. Thanks for the tips.


----------



## MWJB

I don't do inverted Aeropress, I only brew normal way up.

There is no need to "bloom", just make sure all the coffee is wetted quickly when you add all the brew water as quickly as you can (I generally use a regular spout kettle).

If you want to brew inverted, go ahead but use something to cover the brewer (like a light saucer, I have some watchglasses that I use), or after wetting & making sure no coffee is stuck to the plunger, return it to right way up for the steep.

I start by having the Aeropress on an old/spare cup, Brewing right way up you get a little oily drip through whilst fitting the plunger - discard this & move the brewer to fresh cup for the plunge.

Preheat the cup you are plunging into.

After 20 min, with Aeropress the right way up, remove the plunger to let the liquid begin to drain under gravity, then refit plunger & press slowly (40-50s) until you see the dry bed & stop. I don't press through to the hiss.


----------



## Xabi17

Hmm, it didn't work. It all just slowly dripped through the coffee and after 20 mins (I wasn't watching it) the water was all in the original mug. Predictably, it doesn't taste good at all. Would that be over extracted I think? I can't even tell the difference, either way it ain't good.

I think it might be because the seal wasn't fully in so there wasn't a vacuum. Will try again but inverted.


----------



## MWJB

Xabi17 said:


> Hmm, it didn't work. It all just slowly dripped through the coffee and after 20 mins (I wasn't watching it) the water was all in the original mug. Predictably, it doesn't taste good at all. Would that be over extracted I think? I can't even tell the difference, either way it ain't good.
> 
> I think it might be because the seal wasn't fully in so there wasn't a vacuum. Will try again but inverted.


 It does work, it doesn't matter how much, or how little it is extracted in the face of this malfunction.

The plunger works the same way inverted or not, if it's not making a seal the coffee will dribble out.


----------



## Xabi17

Yeah, I meant it would be easier for me to make a seal then fill rather than fill and then make a deal. I also think it was too finely ground possibly...


----------



## -Mac

I seem to have been ahead of the curve with the grind size for the Aeropress, circa 2008. I used to buy pre-ground coffee from Hasbean and got Steve to grind it at a setting that I'd worked out (between Filter and Cafetiere). I used to put two scoops into the chamber, pour boiling water on up to the 4 cups mark, stir for 10 secs and then press the plunger straight away. And it always tasted fantastic to me.


----------



## Xabi17

Since being reunited with my aeropress after a few months away, everything I've tried has been unpleasant and I have no idea why. Tried various recipes, various beans, various grind sizes. I'm very confused as I think it used to be a lot better than this. It tastes too strong and ashy which makes me think it's overextracted (though I am not very good at tasting) but I keep on pulling back the grind and it doesn't seem to help much. Anyone experienced something like this before? Going to go way back with the grind (coarser than what is giving me a decent v60 result, which seems odd based on everything I've read) until...something happens. Very annoying so far.


----------



## MWJB

Xabi17 said:


> Since being reunited with my aeropress after a few months away, everything I've tried has been unpleasant and I have no idea why. Tried various recipes, various beans, various grind sizes. I'm very confused as I think it used to be a lot better than this. It tastes too strong and ashy which makes me think it's overextracted (though I am not very good at tasting) but I keep on pulling back the grind and it doesn't seem to help much. Anyone experienced something like this before? Going to go way back with the grind (coarser than what is giving me a decent v60 result, which seems odd based on everything I've read) until...something happens. Very annoying so far.


 Your copious use of the word "various" doesn't inspire confidence. Pick a recipe that suits your typical needs, focus on that & just change grind. Post, brew by brew, with results.

It is extremely unlikey that you are over-extracting, don't worry about extraction. If the drink is ashy/bitter/charred/powdery/silty, grind coarser, plunge more gently & stir less.

Too strong, if you mean concentrated (and not bitter/chewy/high mouthfeel), is a function of brew ratio, so use less coffee with your set amount of brew water (230g is a pretty good amount if you like inverted brewing).


----------



## Xabi17

Yep, thanks. Just seems confusing to me (I will do the things you say) as the grind size is off a feldgrind so would have thought it would be consistent with other people's experiences. Slightly on that topic, for a v60, if I was making only 250ml of coffee instead of 500ml, and my technique (in terms of ratio/percentages) and grind size was the same for both, would you expect the 250ml or the 500ml to be finished quicker?


----------



## MWJB

Xabi17 said:


> Yep, thanks. Just seems confusing to me (I will do the things you say) as the grind size is off a feldgrind so would have thought it would be consistent with other people's experiences. Slightly on that topic, for a v60, if I was making only 250ml of coffee instead of 500ml, and my technique (in terms of ratio/percentages) and grind size was the same for both, would you expect the 250ml or the 500ml to be finished quicker?


 I wouldn't be surprised if a 500g brew finished in the same time, or marginally quicker than a 250g brew. I would pour at a faster rate for the larger brew, because the same flow rate would lead to over-extraction of the larger brew, if the small brew was on target.


----------



## Xabi17

Thanks for the info. That's helpful. I pulled the grind setting from 2+0 to 2+13 (nearly a full turn) and made another aeropress using the following recipe:



Directions:


Grind coffee at "7.3" on a Malkoenig EK43 [obvs not this one!]


Heat water to 79°C [close...]


Add 60g of water


Turbulent wiggle for 15 seconds


Allow 30 seconds of bloom


Add the rest of the water in 10 seconds


Press down for 45 seconds


Coffee:20g


Water:230g @ 79°C


Brewer:Inverted


Filteraper


Total brew time:1:35


It tastes much, much, much, much better!

So the question is, why am I producing a nice coffee with my v60 at the feldgrind settings recommended on here (2.2 ish) but I need to pull the grinder to a coarser grind for when I use my aeropress, when everyone suggests I should go finer!!


----------



## MWJB

Xabi17 said:


> So the question is, why am I producing a nice coffee with my v60 at the feldgrind settings recommended on here (2.2 ish) but I need to pull the grinder to a coarser grind for when I use my aeropress, when everyone suggests I should go finer!!


 Because you are significantly under-extracting the coffee, which is fine if you like it like that. This is also why you are using a very high coffee dose, to bolster the strength at the low extraction.


----------



## Chromedome

Just ordered some Costa Rica - Las Palomas beans From Black Cat to try & jump back into my Aeropress

What Grind Setting on an Aergrind would i use, i think its at 4:2 at the moment.

Also what is a good recipe for me to master , i did follow this one but it was back in 2017



MWJB said:


> Try this...
> 
> Aeropress:
> 
> 12g dose ground at 2+6 on Feldgrind.
> 
> 220g boiling water straight in (I use a compact kettle & weigh the water into it before boiling, allowing for evaporation etc.) & fit the plunger in just enough to stop flow.
> 
> You get ~30g of watery drip through, discard this & place AP on a new cup.
> 
> 2:00 after filling, pull out the plunger & let it drain under gravity, break any crust at this point. I'm finding the first minute drains at ~1g/sec.
> 
> At 4:30 total time replace the plunger & press slowly until you see dry bed in the AP, until about 5:00.
> 
> You should get ~155g of coffee about 1.28%TDS in the cup.
> 
> On my Rhino the grind setting equates to around 4 clicks from tightest.


 Cheers for any help


----------



## MWJB

Chromedome said:


> Just ordered some Costa Rica - Las Palomas beans From Black Cat to try & jump back into my Aeropress
> 
> What Grind Setting on an Aergrind would i use, i think its at 4:2 at the moment.
> 
> Also what is a good recipe for me to master , i did follow this one but it was back in 2017
> 
> Cheers for any help


 Sorry, I don't know how the Aergrind settings relate to a v1 Feldgrind. 2+6 gives about 12% under 400 Kruve.


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

This thread has got me experimenting with much long brew times. 15 and 20 mins tried so far - but the results have been awful. One thing I find difficult is gauging what people mean when describing grind size.

How would people describe this grind size?















I am wondering if it is too fine, but trying to compare it to other photos online is not easy.

At the moment my current testing is:



Inverted


Grind: As above


18g Coffee (Currently a Latino Blend from Butterworth and Sons)


240g water (as quick off boil as possible, not still bubbling) added all in one go


Agitate slightly to make sure all grounds are wet


Cover with saucer


Leave for XX mins


Wet a filter


Flip on to warmed mug


45/50 second plunge - until all water gone/ fist hiss and stop


I know beans will/ could be part of it, but reading what people have said about longer brew times, I was surprised how bad mine were. Acrid, no flavour, no sweetness - nothing of the tasting notes at all.

Any advice on where I should go with my next experiments?

Thanks


----------



## Jony

I'm no AP expert but I think that's a little on the fine side, what grinder are you using.


----------



## MWJB

18:240g is a very concentrated brew ratio. Try using less coffee. For long steeps 55g/L or a little higher should be fine. Long steeps mean higher extractions than short (but even higher extractions for AP are on the low side), so you can use less coffee to get the same concentration.

If you think the grind is too fine, add water first, then the coffee (might be easiest to do 2/3 water, dump in coffee, then top up, to prevent overflow). It is more likely you are too coarse, you cannot over-extract. You can grind too fine & make the brew silty but you'd be well into Turkish/espresso range for that to happen.

As @Jonyasks, what grinder & setting? I can't tell anything from the pics.

When plunging, first remove the plunger, let the first bit run out under gravity, then fit the plunger & press. Stop before any hiss, stop when you see dry bed.


----------



## Jony

My AP is around 1.7 maybe less when I last did it. It looks fine


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

Jony said:


> I'm no AP expert but I think that's a little on the fine side, what grinder are you using.





MWJB said:


> 18:240g is a very concentrated brew ratio. Try using less coffee. For long steeps 55g/L or a little higher should be fine. Long steeps mean higher extractions than short (but even higher extractions for AP are on the low side), so you can use less coffee to get the same concentration.
> 
> If you think the grind is too fine, add water first, then the coffee (might be easiest to do 2/3 water, dump in coffee, then top up, to prevent overflow). It is more likely you are too coarse, you cannot over-extract. You can grind too fine & make the brew silty but you'd be well into Turkish/espresso range for that to happen.
> 
> As @Jonyasks, what grinder & setting? I can't tell anything from the pics.
> 
> When plunging, first remove the plunger, let the first bit run out under gravity, then fit the plunger & press. Stop before any hiss, stop when you see dry bed.


 The grinder explanation is (maybe) an interesting one...

I have a Graef CM702, which I know isn't great, but it gets me through. A new grinder is on the list, but I need to save up and also negotiate how it'll look to the person who bought be the Graef as a present!

I currently use setting 15 on a scale of 1 - 25 (1 being finest, 25 coarsest). The Graef comes with extra washers in addition to those already under the Burr. I currently have three 0.25mm washers in there. So a 15 on my ginder might not be the same as a 15 on someone elses as they might be using a different number/ combination of washers with different thicknesses.

If I go with the 55g/L for my next experiment (will keep the grind the same for now) that's 0.055g/ml so 240ml(or g) = 13.2g which is a lot less than I am using. If my maths is right then at 18:240 it is 75g/L which is what... errrr.... 36% more coffer per litre? Interesting.

Thanks for the advice and tips. I will report back when I can.


----------



## MWJB

SuffolkDoug said:


> The grinder explanation is (maybe) an interesting one...
> 
> I have a Graef CM702, which I know isn't great, but it gets me through. A new grinder is on the list, but I need to save up and also negotiate how it'll look to the person who bought be the Graef as a present!
> 
> I currently use setting 15 on a scale of 1 - 25 (1 being finest, 25 coarsest). The Graef comes with extra washers in addition to those already under the Burr. I currently have three 0.25mm washers in there. So a 15 on my ginder might not be the same as a 15 on someone elses as they might be using a different number/ combination of washers with different thicknesses.
> 
> If I go with the 55g/L for my next experiment (will keep the grind the same for now) that's 0.055g/ml so 240ml(or g) = 13.2g which is a lot less than I am using. If my maths is right then at 18:240 it is 75g/L which is what... errrr.... 36% more coffer per litre? Interesting.
> 
> Thanks for the advice and tips. I will report back when I can.


 I'd go finer too. The ratio will have little effect on extraction, grind will have a big effect. If you grind coarser than needed, the brew will never extract normally.


----------



## Mikey finn

Reading this inspired me to dig out the aeropress and have a week off the espresso machine, so set the niche to the most course grind (50) and used my favourite dark roast the flavour was amazing i forgot how good they were! 18g in 40 second brew time in 80 deg water stirring for the first 20 secs filled up between numbers 2 and 3 on the aeropress (didnt measure the water)then press it straight through the paper filter. If i go fine i use the prisimo attachment with the built in metal filter, but you have to be pressing the plunger down till you break a sweat lol so if at work or guests watching i use the paper and a course grind to save embarrassment 😊 it packs a little more flavour finer either way is good coffee


----------



## SafetyThird

My Aeropress was something that got thrown in the travel bag when I was working away so I could have decent coffee at whatever hotel I was staying in. I used to use it every morning. Then back at home it got put in a drawer as I've hardly worked away in the past 18 months, I've finally converted my wife from her instant coffee habit into a 'proper' coffee lover by making V60 with coffee from Pact most mornings and now she won't have instant in the house  but we just use the V60, although a La Pavoni Pro should be arriving next week so I'll have some new learning to do.

I recently watched a YouTube vid by Sprometheus where he spent a week making coffee using recipes from the last six world Aeropress champions and over the past couple of weeks that my wife's been away I've been doing the same thing. It's been a bit of a revelation to be honest, I'm really impressed by how good the Aeropress is, how different the various recipes are but also how much coarser everyone has been grinding (I've generally used a V60 grind in my Aeropress before) and that they all seem to make very strong coffee in small amounts and then dilute. It's certainly using more coffee than I've tended to in the past but it's lead to a much richer cup.

It's fun to be using it again.


----------



## Dartmoor Coffee

I shall take a look at this later. I've had an AP for a month or so, but only make as the designer originally said. Be good to try a different way.


----------



## VeryFastTrack

I have been using an Aeropress for one month. I am still experimenting.

I find two different methods that work for me:

1) quick brew Inverted (inspired by






-Grind size 23 (Niche) 18g for 230g water

-water 2-5min off boil

-coffee start timer then 100g water and stir 6 times.

-fill with water (200-230g water total)

-after 2min brew time stir, add cap flip the AP then press


----------



## VeryFastTrack

2) "French Press" brew:

-Grind setting 35 Niche 21.5g for 230g of water. I can add 2-3 pods of cardamom in the beans before grinding

-water just off boil

-add coffee start timer then 60g water and stir

-fill with water.

-after 4min stir

-after 10-15min total add cap flip then press


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

VeryFastTrack said:


> 2) "French Press" brew:
> 
> -Grind setting 35 Niche 21.5g for 230g of water. I can add 2-3 pods of cardamom in the beans before grinding
> 
> -water just off boil
> 
> -add coffee start timer then 60g water and stir
> 
> -fill with water.
> 
> -after 4min stir
> 
> -after 10-15min total add cap flip then press


 How do you find the taste of this with all the stirring?

I haven't had much chance to experiment over the last week, but my most recent recipe has been:



Inverted until the last minute


11 Grind (down from 15 and same as I use for my ROK with these beans)


13.2g coffee


100g water off boil > add all coffee > add 140g water on top (total 240g water) no stirring or agitation


Cover with a saucer


Leave for 20mins


Wet filter/ warm mug


Add cap, flip, pull back plunger to stop dripping - waited 1 minute or so


50 second plunge (resting my arm on the plunger seems to give an almost surprisingly consistent plunge time)


This was a lot better. No where near as acrid, very smooth, but the flavours are still muted.

I am going to try flipping much earlier next time. I do much prefer the inverted method for the initial pour, but am thinking (wait for it - this is really quite obvious!) that when it comes to the plunge you aren't plunging through the coffee, which must have an impact on flavour.

I've got the 'vacuum/ pull back' down now, so will do the initial pour inverted and then flip for the brew/ steep and see how the coffee settling on the filter changes the flavour.

I am also now tempted to get a metal filter to try as I understand this lets more of the oils through.


----------



## MWJB

SuffolkDoug said:


> How do you find the taste of this with all the stirring?
> 
> I haven't had much chance to experiment over the last week, but my most recent recipe has been:
> 
> 
> 
> Inverted until the last minute
> 
> 
> 11 Grind (down from 15 and same as I use for my ROK with these beans)
> 
> 
> 13.2g coffee
> 
> 
> 100g water off boil > add all coffee > add 140g water on top (total 240g water) no stirring or agitation
> 
> 
> Cover with a saucer
> 
> 
> Leave for 20mins
> 
> 
> Wet filter/ warm mug
> 
> 
> Add cap, flip, pull back plunger to stop dripping - waited 1 minute or so
> 
> 
> 50 second plunge (resting my arm on the plunger seems to give an almost surprisingly consistent plunge time)
> 
> 
> This was a lot better. No where near as acrid, very smooth, but the flavours are still muted.
> 
> I am going to try flipping much earlier next time. I do much prefer the inverted method for the initial pour, but am thinking (wait for it - this is really quite obvious!) that when it comes to the plunge you aren't plunging through the coffee, which must have an impact on flavour.
> 
> I've got the 'vacuum/ pull back' down now, so will do the initial pour inverted and then flip for the brew/ steep and see how the coffee settling on the filter changes the flavour.
> 
> I am also now tempted to get a metal filter to try as I understand this lets more of the oils through.


 When it comes to the plunge, it shouldn't make a lot of difference whether it is through the coffee or not, as the plunge mainly just gets the brewed coffee out f the brewer, it doesn't affect the larger part of the extraction.

Oils will mute the flavour further, better filtration (e.g.paper, or paper & metal together) will give better flavour clarity.


----------



## Dartmoor Coffee

SuffolkDoug said:


> 11 Grind (down from 15 and same as I use for my ROK with these beans


 Morning, For the grind level would you know how many microns that is? My grinder has a different range, but I grind near the Espresso mark for AP.


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB said:


> When it comes to the plunge, it shouldn't make a lot of difference whether it is through the coffee or not, as the plunge mainly just gets the brewed coffee out f the brewer, it doesn't affect the larger part of the extraction.
> 
> Oils will mute the flavour further, better filtration (e.g.paper, or paper & metal together) will give better flavour clarity.


 Good to know, thank you.

I'll grab a metal filter at some point to use with paper and also try two paper filters, something I've not experimented with yet.

Do you use a temp controlled kettle for your brews?



Dartmoor Coffee said:


> Morning, For the grind level would you know how many microns that is? My grinder has a different range, but I grind near the Espresso mark for AP.


 No idea! I can take a photo this week sometime if you like...


----------



## MWJB

@SuffolkDougasked "Do you use a temp controlled kettle for your brews?"

I always brew as hot as possible (with manual brew methods), so as soon as the kettle clicks off the boil, I'm in with the water.


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB said:


> @SuffolkDougasked "Do you use a temp controlled kettle for your brews?"
> 
> I always brew as hot as possible (with manual brew methods), so as soon as the kettle clicks off the boil, I'm in with the water.


 That's interesting. I've only got a mammoth stove top kettle (awkward to pour especially if I only want to boil one cups worth) that whistles too tell me it's boiling so I'm looking at either a small stovetop (induction) or electric. I figured if I went electric I'd get a temp controlled one just for potential flexibility.

I am now determined to get better flavour from the AP.


----------



## VeryFastTrack

SuffolkDoug said:


> How do you find the taste of this with all the stirring?


 I just stir enough for the coffee to be evenly spread in the water. I find 4 to 6 turns enough for this purpose.

I am not sure how much it improves the taste but it makes the brewing quicker.


----------



## Pete4eyes

I always use the inverted method to avoid it dripping through slowly but perhaps that means my grind is too coarse? I'd also never thought to lift the plunger after inserting to create a vacuum. Will have a couple of things to try now...!


----------



## VeryFastTrack

Agreed inverted is much easier to manage. You can also have more water in and out. I can get 230g of coffee out.


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

I've finally got around to getting some SO beans and making some time to experiment.

@Dartmoor CoffeeI've tried working out what micron my grind might be, but I've not idea to be honest. I am consistently using the same grind as I do for my ROK.

@VeryFastTrack Stirring certainly seems to surf up the brew. I've found much better and more consistent results with no stirring. (Stirring led to over extraction/ bitter flavours). But as below, think my work around raises another issue.

So using some Kenyan Kigutha beans (thanks @MWJB) this is where I'm at.

The tasting notes are "a juicy acidity and a serious hit of blackcurrant and rhubarb with a rich cocoa-like body."



Inverted for 5/10 mins


11 Grind


50g/l or 60g/l coffee:water ratio


75g water off boil > add all coffee > add 200g water on top (total 275g water) no stirring or agitation (I keep water constant and adjust coffee - 50g/l awkward, but can get within ±0.05g)


Cover with a saucer


Leave for 5/10mins


Wet filter (used several times)


Add cap, flip, pull back plunger to stop dripping


Wait until 20mins overall


50-60 second plunge (resting my arm on the plunger seems to give an almost surprisingly consistent plunge time)


At both 60g/l and 50g/l I get clear blackcurrant flavour, but certainly not "a serious hit". I've not got any of the rhubarb yet, nor really the juicy acidity. I do get juicy, but I'm not sure I'd call it acidic. Might be expecting too much. The body is unsurprisingly more present at 60g/l, but still good at 50.

I'm wondering if my water> then coffee> then water means I'm losing enough heat in the water to affect the taste. I'm going to try starting with all the coffee in and being a bit more aggressive with the water pour.

Has anyone made a jacket for their aeropress to use when doing longer steeps? Neoprene is cheap and I'd like to retain a bit more heat if I'm going to try 30minute steeps.


----------



## Stu Beck

@SuffolkDoug I think the acidity will become more muted as the extraction increases and more sweeter notes come into effect. Maybe see if you enjoy the flavours at 5 or 10 mins, or get different notes? You might find different flavours come through as the bean ages too?

I pour the water straight onto the coffee and give a gentle stir to ensure all the grinds are fully immersed. I don't find it bitterness to be an issue...

Although it makes sense to grind as fine as possible, you could also experiment by going a bit coarser to see if this affects the flavours one way or another? Should still be able to get a tasty brew with a long steep.


----------



## MWJB

Preheat the cup, you shouldn't need a jacket for the AP & 20min brew. (I generally prefer coffee under 60c).

If grinding fine (which you should be), do give the slurry a quick stir once the water is in, you need to break up any clods/clumps straight away. You will not over-extract.

Stick to the higher brew ratio & grind finer. If you're not getting a silty/dirty tasting cup, you can go finer. I wouldn't brew lighter roasted Kenyan at 50g/L.

I don't know how you fit 275g of water, plus coffee in an inverted Aeropress, I struggle to fit 230g (13-14g coffee) water in it, unless right way up.

Consistency of plunge time is irrelevant, nothing much will be happening extraction-wise, focus on a gentle plunge, ideally started under gravity & stop when the bed is dry.

I have recently had that same coffee, I mostly got a hibiscus like taste (closer to rhubarb), don't recall a lot of blackcurrant...it was very nice, nevertheless.


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

Stu Beck said:


> @SuffolkDoug I think the acidity will become more muted as the extraction increases and more sweeter notes come into effect. Maybe see if you enjoy the flavours at 5 or 10 mins, or get different notes? You might find different flavours come through as the bean ages too?
> 
> I pour the water straight onto the coffee and give a gentle stir to ensure all the grinds are fully immersed. I don't find it bitterness to be an issue...
> 
> Although it makes sense to grind as fine as possible, you could also experiment by going a bit coarser to see if this affects the flavours one way or another? Should still be able to get a tasty brew with a long steep.


 Cheers. I will try a shorter brew out of interest, probably once I'm a bit more consistent with the results on the longer steep. Need to separate out my grind adjustment and stirring - even if just to confirm to myself that the stirring doesn't have an affect. Previously (different beans) I must have been stirring quite vigorously, as It was noticeably bitter compared to not.



MWJB said:


> Preheat the cup, you shouldn't need a jacket for the AP & 20min brew. (I generally prefer coffee under 60c).
> 
> If grinding fine (which you should be), do give the slurry a quick stir once the water is in, you need to break up any clods/clumps straight away. You will not over-extract.
> 
> Stick to the higher brew ratio & grind finer. If you're not getting a silty/dirty tasting cup, you can go finer. I wouldn't brew lighter roasted Kenyan at 50g/L.
> 
> I don't know how you fit 275g of water, plus coffee in an inverted Aeropress, I struggle to fit 230g (13-14g coffee) water in it, unless right way up.
> 
> Consistency of plunge time is irrelevant, nothing much will be happening extraction-wise, focus on a gentle plunge, ideally started under gravity & stop when the bed is dry.
> 
> I have recently had that same coffee, I mostly got a hibiscus like taste (closer to rhubarb), don't recall a lot of blackcurrant...it was very nice, nevertheless.


 Cheers. Agreed on pre-heating the cup. I might stick a thermometer in there next time, just to see where it is at.

The thinking behind the jacket was for going even longer, but it might be a case of diminishing returns and only useful if I need to keep it warm whilst I corale the little gremlins children.

I did try a finer grind today, but wasn't sure about the impact on err - mouthfeel(?) might have been psycosomatic, but will try again in the morning.

With the quantity of water I think it is probably best described as 'playing with fire'. I'd never have tried it with my old bung (the original one that came with the AP so pre-silicone), but the new one I got fairly recently has made a huge difference. The bung is only inserted a few mm into the bottom and if I am on 60g/l then 275g water is the absolute max and can get slightly messy - it is full to the brim on the initial pour. I find once it has settled there is a couple of mm at the top so I can push down slightly, bring the coffee right to the brim again and then put the filter on and back off a little to flip and stop drips. 270g water is more comfortable. I got 245.5g coffee in the cup this afternoon - first time I have remembered to measure what goes in to the actual cup!

Great advice starting under gravity. I am not sure about affect on flavour, but it certainly helps having such a full AP as I then have space to eyeball the bed and stop the plunge.

It is very nice coffee - I might swap on to the Rwanda bean I got at the same time to see how noticeable the flavour different is.


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

Managed to squeeze in another experiment this morning. Ground considerably finer - well beyond something that would choke my ROK completely - and followed the method above (20 mins) - great flavours. I think I am heading more towards the rhubarb and I think the acidity might have increased as (sorry if this is gross) I salivate more after swallowing a mouthful (that also sounds pretty dodgy!).

I will try a shorter brew this week, just because, and also try the Rwandan beans.

P.S. - Does anyone else find, particularly with everything that's going on this year, that weighing, timing, focusing on making a coffee provides solace? Even timing the plunge, it isn't necessary but just focusing on the timer, the speed of the plunge - quite therapeutic.


----------



## Stu Beck

SuffolkDoug said:


> weighing, timing, focusing on making a coffee provides solace? Even timing the plunge, it isn't necessary but just focusing on the timer, the speed of the plunge - quite therapeutic.


 Absolutely. It's mindfulness combined with a hit a caffeine 😉


----------



## MWJB

SuffolkDoug said:


> P.S. - Does anyone else find, particularly with everything that's going on this year, that weighing, timing, focusing on making a coffee provides solace? Even timing the plunge, it isn't necessary but just focusing on the timer, the speed of the plunge - quite therapeutic.


 Yes, I have always found that taking a few minutes out of the day to concentrate on making a coffee makes for a little oasis of calm, away from the day to day stresses


----------



## simontc

Managed to get my aeropress back from work- its been in my locker untouched since the mass exodus and isolation of March. Brewed in it twice at home now- both times a quick inverted, rather than my preferred long steep (I remember when that became a buzz here about 4 years ago and with good reason- such sweetness!)

Just done a bit of a googling to see whats been going down in aero land and it seems that the world championship winners the past couple of years have effectively reverted to the Aeropress instructions to drive method- high extraction low yield, topped up with water in the cup. I tried this a couple of times when I first got my press (which was in about 2012, oh my god have I really had an aero for that long?) And it was... OK. I remember taking it to a very weak place with this method used to get some very nice, very light/shimmery, coffee - but anything thicker or fuller bodied always felt a little flat in flavour.

Is it time to try again????

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

simontc said:


> Managed to get my aeropress back from work- its been in my locker untouched since the mass exodus and isolation of March. Brewed in it twice at home now- both times a quick inverted, rather than my preferred long steep (I remember when that became a buzz here about 4 years ago and with good reason- such sweetness!)
> 
> Just done a bit of a googling to see whats been going down in aero land and it seems that the world championship winners the past couple of years have effectively reverted to the Aeropress instructions to drive method- high extraction low yield, topped up with water in the cup. I tried this a couple of times when I first got my press (which was in about 2012, oh my god have I really had an aero for that long?) And it was... OK. I remember taking it to a very weak place with this method used to get some very nice, very light/shimmery, coffee - but anything thicker or fuller bodied always felt a little flat in flavour.
> 
> Is it time to try again????
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


 Lazy questions - How fine/ coarse is their grind? and What ratio of dose to water?

Personally, since I have been able to get more consistent results (across multiple beans) than ever before with fine grind/ long steep I've lost interest in experimenting too much.


----------



## MWJB

simontc said:


> Just done a bit of a googling to see whats been going down in aero land and it seems that the world championship winners the past couple of years have effectively reverted to the Aeropress instructions to drive method- high extraction low yield, topped up with water in the cup.


 This suggests low extraction, rather than high (cooler water, large dose/less water).


----------



## Norvin

Aeropress A La Travelodge 😄 Lack of working space in room, bits of pizza box to contain mess etc.


----------



## hotmetal

And an old style Foundry bag!


----------



## simontc

SuffolkDoug said:


> Lazy questions - How fine/ coarse is their grind? and What ratio of dose to water?
> Personally, since I have been able to get more consistent results (across multiple beans) than ever before with fine grind/ long steep I've lost interest in experimenting too much.


Depends on the person brewing- most seem to be taking it fine as per general aero instructions from what I can tell. Dosage changes too

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## simontc

MWJB said:


> This suggests low extraction, rather than high (cooler water, large dose/less water).


Apologies- I guess I meant concentration. Might not be extracting as much out (though potentially they are depending on contact time/heat and agitation) but definitely a higher %tds in the lower amount of water pushed through similar dose- with intention to reduce that % post brew with more water added... again like my last post, lots of different approaches.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## simontc

hotmetal said:


> And an old style Foundry bag!


Awesome! Remember when Lee packaged pretty much everything in the silver kilo bags??? Those new bags are a sight to behold though!

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## FV75

I've rescued my Aeropress from the back of a cupboard for my lunchtime coffee and I'm really enjoying trying out some of the techniques and suggestions here - I'm experimenting with a finer grind at the moment, although not enjoying the results much...


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

I have been merrily carrying on with my standard 60g/l 20min brews, but changed a bit for my most recent beans but still can't seem to crack them.

The beans are Kenya - Kirinyaga from Craft House. Espressos are very tasty. I have got to the point with those that I think my kit is the weak link, not the method. (i.e. stepped grinder - can't quite hit the sweet spot)

On the AP though, I can't seem to get rid of a bitter overtone that is present. The fruity notes are underneath and the acidity is there, but it is clouded by a bitterness.

I started at 60g/l - water straight of the boil - agitate to make sure all no clumps etc - 20min steep and plunge. The grind is as fine as I can go really and I have tried backing off a bit too (i.e. go slightly coarser), but that seems to lose the fruit whilst the bitterness remains. Previous beans I was consistently doing well on the finest grind setting I could go to.

The overall taste is better at 65g/l and I also tried water that had stopped bubbling, but the bitterness is still there.

I will try reducing the steep time down to 10mins, but given what is said about extraction that doesn't seem like it will do much. I've not written anything down which is a fatal flaw as it is now all getting a bit woods and trees.

If anyone has any thoughts they would be gratefully received! Cheers


----------



## MWJB

SuffolkDoug said:


> I have been merrily carrying on with my standard 60g/l 20min brews, but changed a bit for my most recent beans but still can't seem to crack them.
> 
> The beans are Kenya - Kirinyaga from Craft House. Espressos are very tasty. I have got to the point with those that I think my kit is the weak link, not the method. (i.e. stepped grinder - can't quite hit the sweet spot)
> 
> On the AP though, I can't seem to get rid of a bitter overtone that is present. The fruity notes are underneath and the acidity is there, but it is clouded by a bitterness.
> 
> I started at 60g/l - water straight of the boil - agitate to make sure all no clumps etc - 20min steep and plunge. The grind is as fine as I can go really and I have tried backing off a bit too (i.e. go slightly coarser), but that seems to lose the fruit whilst the bitterness remains. Previous beans I was consistently doing well on the finest grind setting I could go to.
> 
> The overall taste is better at 65g/l and I also tried water that had stopped bubbling, but the bitterness is still there.
> 
> I will try reducing the steep time down to 10mins, but given what is said about extraction that doesn't seem like it will do much. I've not written anything down which is a fatal flaw as it is now all getting a bit woods and trees.
> 
> If anyone has any thoughts they would be gratefully received! Cheers


 Never start changing major parameters for 1 bag of coffee. If what you do has worked well enough for the last 8 or 9 bags, then it's not the method that's in question.

It's very hard to over-extract an AP steep, I don't doubt you are getting bitterness, but I doubt it is over-extraction. I doubt cooler water will help, get it all in as soon as you can, use the funnel thing if necessary.

Are you normal way up, or inverted? If normal, try inverted, water in first, quick wet & cover. Let everything settle after the flip, let the first bit start to drain before plunging.

You say you're as fine as you can go...is that because burrs touch if you go any finer?

If you think 65g/L tastes better than 60g/L, try 70g/L.

...or drink it all as espresso


----------



## PortafilterProcrastinator

MWJB said:


> Never start changing major parameters for 1 bag of coffee. If what you do has worked well enough for the last 8 or 9 bags, then it's not the method that's in question.
> 
> It's very hard to over-extract an AP steep, I don't doubt you are getting bitterness, but I doubt it is over-extraction. I doubt cooler water will help, get it all in as soon as you can, use the funnel thing if necessary.
> 
> Are you normal way up, or inverted? If normal, try inverted, water in first, quick wet & cover. Let everything settle after the flip, let the first bit start to drain before plunging.
> 
> You say you're as fine as you can go...is that because burrs touch if you go any finer?
> 
> If you think 65g/L tastes better than 60g/L, try 70g/L.
> 
> ...or drink it all as espresso 🙂


 Cheers @MWJB - clear and practical as always.

I am inverted and then flipping at the end, giving it a minute to settle, removing plunger for 30s-1m gravity drain then plunge.

I can go a little finer before the burrs touch, but it clogs the grinder and becomes a PITA to get the full dose out. I have been naughty and have a Niche in the Feb 2021 batch.

I will try 70g/L tomorrow and then as you say, I might just drink the rest as espresso!


----------



## lake_m

I'm currently using the Prismo attachment with original paper filters as a way of avoiding inverting the aeropress but achieving the same results. Crazy price though - more expensive than the aeropress itself, and it's useless for anything other than this.


----------



## Al Grandé

Hi Folks, I bought an AeroPress and received it Tuesday...see What the postie bought part 2... Been brewing 3 days, trying the different coffee I got from RAVE.

Thought I'd have a look at YouTube for some brewing techniques, only to find out, off James Hoffman, there are 7776 !!!!😳😅


----------



## MWJB

Al Grandé said:


> Hi Folks, I bought an AeroPress and received it Tuesday...see What the postie bought part 2... Been brewing 3 days, trying the different coffee I got from RAVE.
> 
> Thought I'd have a look at YouTube for some brewing techniques, only to find out, off James Hoffman, there are 7776 !!!!😳😅


 There's one: grind the coffee, combine it with water, wait, plunge. 

You just have to work out the grind, dose & time to make things you like, consistently.


----------



## Al Grandé

MWJB said:


> There's one: grind the coffee, combine it with water, wait, plunge. 🙂
> 
> You just have to work out the grind, dose & time to make things you like, consistently.


 I waiting for a grinder(Niche) and I found i need some descend scales. Having said that, the coffees we have had, fro the press have been the best we have had for awhile...Don't think it my technique, think its the Rave coffee...


----------



## Stu Beck

Al Grandé said:


> I waiting for a grinder(Niche) and I found i need some descend scales. Having said that, the coffees we have had, fro the press have been the best we have had for awhile...Don't think it my technique, think its the Rave coffee...


 Great you're making tasty coffee already 👍 grinder and scales will certainly help elevate your brews 😀

I brew in two ways with the AP, starting inverted and using water just off the boil:

*Filter style without milk:* 14g in with 230g (60g/l) water. Gentle stir to ensure grinds are fully immersed, cap on and squeeze out air before flipping onto a cup. Leave for as long as you can: the flavours get more pronounced and sweeter around 15-20 mins and the brew is at a nice temp to drink. I found it was interesting to experiment with brew times and note the difference in flavours in the cup.

*Faux flat white:* 18g to 90g water, 2mins brew pressed into ~75ml warm whole milk. You can adjust the dose and milk to suit, but I like this combo 😋

Oh, and press gently! I've had a few accidents before realising that pressure isn't required. 🤦‍♂️

Enjoy ☕


----------



## Al Grandé

Stu Beck said:


> Great you're making tasty coffee already 👍 grinder and scales will certainly help elevate your brews 😀
> 
> I brew in two ways with the AP, starting inverted and using water just off the boil:
> 
> *Filter style without milk:* 14g in with 230g (60g/l) water. Gentle stir to ensure grinds are fully immersed, cap on and squeeze out air before flipping onto a cup. Leave for as long as you can: the flavours get more pronounced and sweeter around 15-20 mins and the brew is at a nice temp to drink. I found it was interesting to experiment with brew times and note the difference in flavours in the cup.
> 
> *Faux flat white:* 18g to 90g water, 2mins brew pressed into ~75ml warm whole milk. You can adjust the dose and milk to suit, but I like this combo 😋
> 
> Oh, and press gently! I've had a few accidents before realising that pressure isn't required. 🤦‍♂️
> 
> Enjoy ☕


 Hi Stuart

Thank you for the info..

I would never thought of leaving it 15-20 minutes, you say it gets sweeter, which sounds nice as long as it doesn't get stronger... I've been doing it 2 ways both normal orientation. My wife likes stronger coffee,2 filters, 15g coffee, water to number 2 stir, wait 30seconds add water to number4 wait till 1m 5seconds the plunge..add a dash of milk to the cup.

Mine I use 1 filter, 11g coffee, fill to number 2 stir, plunge after 1m 5s then add water to fill cup, cups 280ml then add abit of milk.

What I found is I only have 1 sugar, where as I would normally have at least 2. Usually I use hot water, just off the boil, but today I thought I'd let it cool abit( don't know, don't have a thermometer 😉) we both found the coffee stronger.

I will give your techniques a try, I'll let you know how I get on..


----------



## MWJB

Al Grandé said:


> I would never thought of leaving it 15-20 minutes, you say it gets sweeter, which sounds nice as long as it doesn't get stronger...


 Strength in a steeped brew is a function of coffee (dose & grind size) v water v time. So if a long brew seems too strong, use less coffee next time (55-60g/L should be perfectly fine for most people though).

11g to 280mL of finished drink seems weaker than typical, is it very dark coffee, or Robusta?

Usually a beverage is 12-16x the weight of the coffee dose for filter coffee.


----------



## Al Grandé

MWJB said:


> 11g to 280mL of finished drink seems weaker than typical, is it very dark coffee, or Robusta?
> 
> Usually a beverage is 12-16x the weight of the coffee dose for filter coffee.


 I was never really a coffee person, only over the last 4 or so years, going to spain and Italy,as they don't drink much tea...and started enjoying their coffee.So I thought I'd get into brewing.. I'm slowly adjusting to it, and my coffee is slowly getting stronger....😅the answer to your question is Rave medium/Dark signature N°1 blend, and Colombia el Carmen N°50 and Rave ground it for me as I waiting for a grinder.


----------



## haz_pro

I bought a Go last year - a bit behind the curve eh?

I love it, used daily!

My recipe at the moment is:
18g coffee, not quite espresso but no where near filter either. 1.25-1.5 turns on my feldgrind 2.

Inverted method, 2 paper filters.

100g water into the aeropress, stir then leave for 3 minutes, stir again then press out.

Top up as required in my mug.

Also have metal filters (one finer than the other), but I don't like the mouth feel.


----------



## Axiom

I've become rather less precision-obsessed as time goes on, tend to use the following method:

18-20g coffee, ground quite fine (not espresso level but probably not miles off it), non-inverted. Regular filters. Pour 3 fingers worth of water, stir, leave for 30 seconds. Fill it up to the brim over about 30 seconds, leave for 60-90 seconds. Plunge over about a 30 second period.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Inverted method, 18 g, fill a half-length, 10 stirs, fill up to the top, leave it for 2 mins. I then quickly flip and plunge for 30 secs.


----------



## phil28

Rescued my aeropress from the office today.

Looking forward to trying some of these recipes.


----------



## mit_hirani

Some very interesting recipes here. I've been experimenting with longer steeps with great results. Only 5 min steeps for now after previously making 1-2min brews.

I can taste some bitterness initially, but after that theres lots of sweet fruitiness coming through. I'm trying to figure out what to do next to reduce the bitterness or maybe the slight bitterness could be part of the tasting notes? I'm using the Myanmar from Black Cat which does have wine notes.

Recipe:

Inverted

14g (grind size 40 then 30 on the Niche)

Fill with 230g water off the boil

Small stir 5-10 times

leave for 5 mins

Plunge

Any ideas on where to go next? Enjoying the taste but experimenting to see if I can push the sweetness further.


----------



## MWJB

mit_hirani said:


> Any ideas on where to go next? Enjoying the taste but experimenting to see if I can push the sweetness further.


 13:240g & steep covered for 20min. If you don't have anything suitable to use as a cover (I use a watchglass), flip after stirring & steep on a cup. Preheat another cup for the 20:00 mark, put the AP on the warmed cup, pull out the plunger, let the first output drip under gravity, replace plunger & plunge slowly til you see dry bed.


----------



## mit_hirani

MWJB said:


> 13:240g & steep covered for 20min. If you don't have anything suitable to use as a cover (I use a watchglass), flip after stirring & steep on a cup. Preheat another cup for the 20:00 mark, put the AP on the warmed cup, pull out the plunger, let the first output drip under gravity, replace plunger & plunge slowly til you see dry bed.


Thanks, I will give that a go tomorrow. 
I use the aeropress lid with a prewet paper filter as a cover/lid. That should be ok right?


----------



## MWJB

mit_hirani said:


> Thanks, I will give that a go tomorrow.
> I use the aeropress lid with a prewet paper filter as a cover/lid. That should be ok right?


 Maybe, not tried it myself as I already had the watchglass.


----------



## LMartin

mit_hirani said:


> Some very interesting recipes here. I've been experimenting with longer steeps with great results. Only 5 min steeps for now after previously making 1-2min brews.
> 
> I can taste some bitterness initially, but after that theres lots of sweet fruitiness coming through. I'm trying to figure out what to do next to reduce the bitterness or maybe the slight bitterness could be part of the tasting notes? I'm using the Myanmar from Black Cat which does have wine notes.
> 
> Recipe:
> 
> Inverted
> 
> 14g (grind size 40 then 30 on the Niche)
> 
> Fill with 230g water off the boil
> 
> Small stir 5-10 times
> 
> leave for 5 mins
> 
> Plunge
> 
> Any ideas on where to go next? Enjoying the taste but experimenting to see if I can push the sweetness further.


 Wow I've barely changed recipe in almost 10 years (15g, inverted, 200g water for 1m30s), but obviously the recipes have moved on a bit. Need to give long steeps a go. Feels intuitively mad but sounds promising from others!


----------



## MWJB

LMartin said:


> Wow I've barely changed recipe in almost 10 years (15g, inverted, 200g water for 1m30s), but obviously the recipes have moved on a bit. Need to give long steeps a go. Feels intuitively mad but sounds promising from others!


 Well, if what you are doing works stick with it, or at least you can return to it if things don't work out straight away. I have couple of different recipes depending on how much time I have/how bad the early morning brain fog is 

It's more that longer steeps target a higher extraction, most AP recipes make for low extractions (nevertheless, at certain points, these can still be very tasty). You might need to adjust your brew ratio for longer steeps (55-60g/L?), as you won't need as much coffee to hit the same strength, grind in the coarse espresso/moka pot region...and be sure to pre heat your cup.


----------



## Jason89

I have been using my Aeropress for 2 years now, not intentionally but I have fallen into the habit of doing:



15g with medium/fine grind


Either use inverted method or Fellow Prismo (not for the "pressure" but an easier inverted method)


Fill up to 3 line


Wait 1 minute


Stir


Wait how long it takes to make my breakfast (3ish minutes)


Plunge


Probably not the best method, but works well for me. The 15g does heavily depend on the coffee, my decaf from Spiller and Tait extracts much faster than my other types, so closer to 13g for that one.


----------



## phil28

Jason89 said:


> I have been using my Aeropress for 2 years now, not intentionally but I have fallen into the habit of doing:
> 
> 15g with medium/fine grind
> Either use inverted method or Fellow Prismo (not for the "pressure" but an easier inverted method)
> Fill up to 3 line
> Wait 1 minute
> Stir
> Wait how long it takes to make my breakfast (3ish minutes)
> Plunge
> Probably not the best method, but works well for me. The 15g does heavily depend on the coffee, my decaf from Spiller and Tait extracts much faster than my other types, so closer to 13g for that one.


Pretty much that's what I do! Except I use 21g of freshly ground coffee


----------



## Jason89

phil28 said:


> Jason89 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been using my Aeropress for 2 years now, not intentionally but I have fallen into the habit of doing:
> 
> 
> 15g with medium/fine grind
> 
> 
> Either use inverted method or Fellow Prismo (not for the "pressure" but an easier inverted method)
> 
> 
> Fill up to 3 line
> 
> 
> Wait 1 minute
> 
> 
> Stir
> 
> 
> Wait how long it takes to make my breakfast (3ish minutes)
> 
> 
> Plunge
> 
> Probably not the best method, but works well for me. The 15g does heavily depend on the coffee, my decaf from Spiller and Tait extracts much faster than my other types, so closer to 13g for that one.
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much that's what I do! Except I use 21g of freshly ground coffee
Click to expand...

 Think I am too cheap to use that much coffee per cup! Can get 16 cups out of my 250g bags of coffee.


----------



## phil28

Hoffman has just released this!

No recipe though...


----------



## simontc

So I tried an odd thing with my aero...and I'm gonna do it again. I put water in first. So inverted, 250g water in and then 15 g of finely (just off espresso) ground on top. I levelled it and watched each grain of coffee sink through the brew for about a minute, I then swirled the whole lot which produced a really turbulent storm and waited 30 secs. Cap on flip and wait 30 secs for everything to settle and then press. It was marvellous... really sweet, prominent acidity and the mouthful was through the roof- it was like a long brew (which I love) but in a feaction if the time .. which meant it was also hotter!

Been brewing with an aero for about 7 years (no, maybe even 8) and this is q first for me... I love this device


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

While we normally like the inverted method - 20g,125g, 1:30 to flip and plunge and finish at 2:00. The flavour and notes are good in this method.

Today, we tried the normal. Same parameters; pleasantly surprised with the notes and after taste, although the flavour was less pronounced. Tempted to try the long steep.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Tempted to try the long steep.


 Made two long steeps today using the normal method - both produced strong cups.

-20:125, 1.6 turns, 20 mins

-24:240, 1.6 turns, 20 mins

The coffee was noticeably different compared to the normal and short steep methods. The coffee was very smooth, rich, sweet and had a very mild bitterness, which was even enjoyable. The coffee was very good with milk and my wife said the best coffee she has had so far in recent weeks. The Aroma was more pronounced on long steep than the short. The only challenge was it was hardly luke warm and had to reheat on the microwave.


----------



## MWJB

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> The only challenge was it was hardly luke warm and had to reheat on the microwave.


 Do you know exactly how hot it was? 200g+ should be well over 50c, maybe nearer 60c? Of course, you might still prefer your coffee to be hotter than this, In which case, try seeing what it tastes like at a temp you can get along with, maybe at 15min, or 12?...Or, keep doing what you are doing with the microwave 

Using the maximum water weight will help retain heat. 125g of water will cool fast.

What are you using for a lid? Ideally, this shouldn't be able to cause a heat sink effect. So something low in mass,


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MWJB said:


> Do you know exactly how hot it was? 200g+ should be well over 50c, maybe nearer 60c? Of course, you might still prefer your coffee to be hotter than this, In which case, try seeing what it tastes like at a temp you can get along with, maybe at 15min, or 12?...Or, keep doing what you are doing with the microwave 🙂
> 
> Using the maximum water weight will help retain heat. 125g of water will cool fast.
> 
> What are you using for a lid? Ideally, this shouldn't be able to cause a heat sink effect. So something low in mass,


 Unfortunately, I didn't. I will and report next time. Lowering the steep time is a good idea. Thx


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MWJB said:


> Do you know exactly how hot it was?


 24:240, 1.6 rotations, 20 mins and normal method on AP. It was 46.1 deg C on the cup. Thx


----------



## MWJB

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> 24:240, 1.6 rotations, 20 mins and normal method on AP. It was 46.1 deg C on the cup. Thx


 Does seem a bit cool, so I guess shorter steep next.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MWJB said:


> Does seem a bit cool, so I guess shorter steep next.


 Yeah. Notes wise, I definitely prefer the long steep. I will check the short steep temperature tmrw morning. Thx Mark!


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MWJB said:


> shorter steep next.


 20:125, 1.8 turns, normal method, 1:30 plunge and 2:00 finish. It was 59.2 deg C on the pre-heated cup. This is defo hot enough to drink.

The long steeps (20 mins or 30 mins) notes, the texture and after tastes are miles ahead of the short steep.

I also do not think the 20 mins or the 30 mins makes any difference to the notes and taste. The 3-6 mins steep times were sour and bitter for the same parameters. I shall try the 10 mins - 15 mins versions to see if I can strike a balance between heat retention and notes.

I still wonder why the aroma is more pronounced on short steep than the long! May be, the aroma dissipates on the longer side.


----------



## MWJB

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> I still wonder why the aroma is more pronounced on short steep than the long! May be, the aroma dissipates on the longer side.


 Indeed, aroma is predominantly volatile components that dissipate quickly, the dissolved solids that are the basis of the flavour are more permanent.

Have a good sniff when pouring the water in


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Same parameters, steeped for 15 mins. It was a no go... sour, bitter and 43deg C. It was like 5/9. I drank that and made another one for my wife like this am.


----------



## MWJB

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Same parameters, steeped for 15 mins. It was a no go... sour, bitter and 43deg C. It was like 5/9. I drank that and made another one for my wife like this am.


 Microwave it is then. 

I am a bit surprised by your low temps. Are you getting the water in quickly, say 10s? Is it definitely boiling at pour?


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MWJB said:


> Microwave it is then. 🙂
> 
> I am a bit surprised by your low temps. Are you getting the water in quickly, say 10s? Is it definitely boiling at pour?


 Microwave, it is !

I first draw about 30-50 ml hot water out on a bowl, which gets the water to around 91-93 deg C (i.e. water flow temperature). I then fill the water straight from osmio zero. It takes about 5-6 secs for 125g, and ~15s for double the size. Our kitchen is exposed to a lot of windows, which would be a contributing factor.

Never mind. I can live with it as I do not see any deterioration in the notes, aroma and after taste with -15s microwave. The Vesuvius leva is any way due in 6-8 weeks. After this, I will use the brew only for long steps.

Thanks Mark!


----------



## malling

So almost what I do... Normal position, all water in, let it steep 2-4min, swirl/stirr, gentle plunger. No huge benefit of a 8min brew... I have sometimes let it sit up till 10min but rarely found it to be worth the extra time, after that I have never detected any extraction improvement.

sometimes i skim it too, but will try and see if there is a noticeable taste difference or might be worth skipping.

He didn't find any benefit of inverted, heating the Aeropress, rinsing the paper or plunger the whole way, pretty much sums up my own findings.

be interesting next when he make his easy best aeropress recipe.


----------



## MWJB

malling said:


> No huge benefit of a 8min brew... I have sometimes let it sit up till 10min but rarely found it to be worth the extra time, after that I have never detected any extraction improvement.


 Steeping 20min definitely increases extraction over shorter steeps.

I do short steeps too, but dose differently to boost the strength.


----------



## malling

MWJB said:


> Steeping 20min definitely increases extraction over shorter steeps.
> 
> I do short steeps too, but dose differently to boost the strength.


 I done this several times with that length brews and did not taste much difference in a triangular test nor in a less scientific blind, nor found much difference in measured extraction when brewed this way. After 4min the extraction flattens out as he also found out. After 4min we are really getting into diminishing returns territory, After 8-10min the gain is so small to not being there, that I truely doubt anyone consistenly can pick it out in a triangular test.

two min is done to shorten the time and get fine brews, you can improve extraction and taste, but rarely necessary unless you want diminishing. I typically do 4min as I do not bother with longer as I rarely find the gain for additional 4-6min to be worth it, unless brewing something where expensive and rare, 20min is just wasting time.


----------



## MWJB

malling said:


> 20min is just wasting time.


 Seems a bit harsh. If you have the time to spare, it's not a problem. If not, brew quicker by all means.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

Interesting observations. We have been using AP 95% of the time, 7 days a week and make at least 6-7 cups using the normal or the inverted method. We are completely using the normal method now as we like the notes and the after taste better than the inverted.

We agree with Mark @MWJB re- the benefit of long steeps of at least 20 mins. We have found these producing a smoother, sweeter and better cup. The notes and after taste have always looked up nicely than short steeps. The diminishing return is valid for aroma and perhaps after 20 mins.

Keeping all parameters constant, we have found steeping for 3-5 mins and 12-15 mins produce a sour-bitter cup.

In short, we always go back to long steeps than short these days. We do want to try the 10 mins, though


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

MWJB said:


> Seems a bit harsh. If you have the time to spare, it's not a problem. If not, brew quicker by all means.


 Working mornings are absolutely jam packed. There is no time. However, I brew the coffee for 20 mins as a first task and focus on something else in the kitchen while the coffee brews. 😊


----------



## malling

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Interesting observations. We have been using AP 95% of the time, 7 days a week and make at least 6-7 cups using the normal or the inverted method. We are completely using the normal method now as we like the notes and the after taste better than the inverted.
> 
> We agree with Mark @MWJB re- the benefit of long steeps of at least 20 mins. We have found these producing a smoother, sweeter and better cup. The notes and after taste have always looked up nicely than short steeps. The diminishing return is valid for aroma and perhaps after 20 mins.
> 
> Keeping all parameters constant, we have found steeping for 3-5 mins and 12-15 mins produce a sour-bitter cup.
> 
> In short, we always go back to long steeps than short these days. We do want to try the 10 mins, though


 Try to do a triangular test, it removes biase. I tried the 10, 15 and 20min I honestly could not pick the odd one out repeatedly and the extraction didn't show noticeable difference.

I never experienced under extracted 4min brews with my method, that is quite similar to the one Hoffmann used.

again you're grinder might have an impact, these test where done on an EK, haven't done it on the Ode, yet. To see if it acctually make an impact. But I will when ever I get the time.

I'm not saying 20ish isn't great, I just have not seen the benefit in how I brew. If I have to spend an additional 10min there really need to be a good reason, something I just have not seen.

I also think me and Mark brew somewhat differently.


----------



## MWJB

malling said:


> I also think me and Mark brew somewhat differently.


 You could be right, but what make you think this?


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

malling said:


> Try to do a triangular test


 Did a few quads for 30, 60, 90 and 120 - same parameters. We liked the 90s steep to the rest. All short steeps are therefore for 1:30 mins before plunge.

Quad for 10, 15, 20 and 30 is for another time, perhaps when my family has gone away for a few days! They already think, I have gone nuts. 😃


----------



## 27852

Re the tests, are these all at the same temperature? You will be able to taste more from a cooler drink.

There should be measurable differences in extraction/taste comparing shorter brews, as you're still operating in a steep section of the extraction vs contact time area of the curve.

What is harder to understand is why longer brews seem to be improved with longer contact time and but there is a point that it starts to taste worse even though you're getting not much more extraction. Perhaps at the shorter side of the long brew spectrum you've extracted out a bad tasting compound that needs time to decay off?


----------



## malling

Just did a 10min steep with Tim Wendelboe Karagoto. It where really good, balanced acidity, great sweetness. It's actually the first 10min I done on Aeropress since I gotten the Ode.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

I kept everything constant, steeped for 10 mins. It was a good weaker cup, not sour but bitter, which wasn't enjoyable. I was disappointed, tbh.

So, if AP, I defo prefer steeping for 20 mins than 10 or 15. If I want a quick cup of coffee, then 1:30 mins.


----------



## malling

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> I kept everything constant, steeped for 10 mins. It was a good weaker cup, not sour but bitter, which wasn't enjoyable. I was disappointed, tbh.
> 
> So, if AP, I defo prefer steeping for 20 mins than 10 or 15. If I want a quick cup of coffee, then 1:30 mins.


 Interesting, I'm wandering if our different techniques and grinders might play into this.

I'll try doing a 20min tomorrow, I don't expect it to be that different from todays brew... I'll keep an open mind.


----------



## MWJB

malling said:


> Interesting, I'm wandering if our different techniques and grinders might play into this.
> 
> I'll try doing a 20min tomorrow, I don't expect it to be that different from todays brew... I'll keep an open mind.


 Good point, if you have a grinder that can go very fine, it's possible that things can maybe extract in more like 10min, or at least do so with some coffees.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

malling said:


> Interesting, I'm wandering if our different techniques and grinders might play into this.


 Possible. There could be many reasons for this.



I have a manual grinder - JX Pro. I grind fine - upper end of espresso or coarse espresso.


I use Osmio Zero water, but add ~25 mg of sodium bicarbonate per brew.


Normal method


Paper filter at the bottom and the 10k micro filter


Coffee first and water later.


Looking forward to your 20 mins brew.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

The normal method for long steep, > 10 mins, isn't helpful for smaller volumes - ex: 1:6.25. I either use the normal short steeps or the inverted method for long steeps.


----------



## malling

Just did the 20min streep and it didn't really improve the taste... everything else where identical with the 10min brew.

But then I'm using a flatburr grinder and not a conical handgrinder... So this might influence things. I also tended to go longer with any Aeropress brews with my handgrinder before my handgrinder decided too die on me.

oh well worth the try.


----------



## Like Medium Strong Coffee

malling said:


> Just did the 20min streep and it didn't really improve the taste... everything else where identical with the 10min brew.
> 
> But then I'm using a flatburr grinder and not a conical handgrinder... So this might influence things. I also tended to go longer with any Aeropress brews with my handgrinder before my handgrinder decided too die on me.
> 
> oh well worth the try.


 Glad you tried!


----------

