# Still a little curious.



## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Well my backflushing kit arrived yesterday from Has Bean, so I decided to give the internals of my Classic a good clean. I bought a tub of Caviza cleaner, a blank basket and also a grouphead brush with a little scoop at one end. I don't know how much (in grams) the little scoop holds so I followed the instructions of the Caviza which states 3 grams of cleaning powder goes into the blank basket (I have seen the backflushing vid on YouTube and it looks to be the correct amount), so I followed the instructions as laid out in the pack (on for 10 seconds then off for 10 seconds 5 times). What I wondered is, does the backflushing need to be done from cold? Obviously while you are doing it the machine will be warming up as a natural thing because you are operating it? Once I had done the backflush I rinsed the internals of the machine, basket and portafilter with fresh clean water. The Caviza also states that you need to brew one cup of coffee and throw it away, so that is what I did.

Now the machine is nice and clean I decided to make an espresso, but here's the thing. I went to my favourite coffee shop yesterday and got them to grind me a bag of coffee (as I haven't got my grinder yet) which I brought home. I have also ordered a Motta 58mm tamper and some jewellery scales, but neither have turned up yet, so I had to improvise. I do have some digital weighing scales that we use for cooking/baking, but I did manage to get them under the portafilter with a cup underneath both spouts. As some have suggested, weigh the coffee into the portafilter basket first (place the basket onto the scales and zero it to get the tare weight of the basket then add the ground coffee up to 15 grams and put the basket into the portafilter and tamp down. I am using my rubbish plastic tamper until my new one turns up. So I put the portafilter into the machine, put the scales under it, sat an empty cup under both spouts, zeroed the scales to allow for the empty cup, set my timer for 24 seconds Well I set everything off, Machine and timer together and was keeping an eye on the scales as well. As the timer counted down it did seem like there was very little liquid to begin with, but I continued up until the 24 seconds had elapsed. Once I had got the scales off the machine and on to the work top I took another measurement and the coffee weight was 55 grams. Well over what I was expecting, so I threw it away and primed things for another go. This time I aimed for the 1:6 ratio guide, 15 g in and I was expecting 24 g out. Unfortunately things went really quickly (quicker than I expected), so I didn't switch the machine off in time, so the output ended up being 30g (which wasn't too bad anyway). What did surprise me however was how quickly it took to get to 30g. 7-8 seconds. Well I didn't throw that one away. I made a cappuccino in one of my small cups which was delish.

With that in mind I assume that the ground coffee was too coarse? It certainly felt fine enough and it was ground on a professional grinder at my coffee shop. And it also tasted great. A real punch to the flavour.

One last thing that I was curious about. Is the steam wand connected to where the coffee goes through on the Classic as I have noticed some tiny black deposits in the cup that I purge the wand into?

Thanks


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Are you using the pressurised basket, or a standard one?

If using preground then you will never get a good pour, good shops will tweak the grinder during the day let alone every few days as beans age / atmospherics change. Don't bother with the scales and just try and get a pour in the ~25 secs range that tastes nice to you. You can adjust the flow time by increasing or decreasing the amount of coffee in the basket, as you wont be able to adjust the grind.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

To be honest I wouldnt even try with pre-ground stuff, wait till you have a grinder! Unless one isnt on the horizon!??


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

aaronb said:


> Don't bother with the scales and just try and get a pour in the ~25 secs range that tastes nice to you.


Is that right, i would have dumped the timer and just aimed for weight?

I always run my timer but only turn pump off when i have the desired weight, regardless of what time i have.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Scales over timer imo. You can go a bit over on time without our having too much effect but the extraction ratio is important


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

But at the end of the day it has to taste nice


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

But as for the OP and his situation using preground....I would suggest to get a decent shot he concentrates on getting a grinder


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

If you're not expecting your scales and tamper soon I could let you have both to use until yours arrive. Just let me know and I'll bring you them over.,

Ian


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## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

Yup basically you need a finer grind to get a slower pour. Nothing wrong with the coffee shop's machine. It's just that it's adjustable for a reason - cos different beans, machines and techniques require an appropriate grind for the right flow rate. Try putting 16g or 17g in the basket, still collect a 1.6 ratio output and the flow should be a bit slower. This should sort it until you get your own grinder an can adjust as you need for your chosen dose weight.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I would try to keep things nice and simple Malc.

Get your scales set up with cup and zeroed under your spouts, zero your timer, hit start on the gaggia and start on the timer at the same time (Timer counting up, not down from 25secs)

When your scales hit the 1.6 ratio, so 24g if you have loaded 15g of coffee, hit stop on the gaggia, and stop on the timer, maybe you will need to hit stop at 24g as you tend to get a little more after you have stopped.

Then look at your timer for reference and see if its near the 25 second mark, dont get to hung up on it to start with.

Taste it and see what its like without milk, i have found enough milk will hide a bad coffee very easily.

I am still learning with my gaggia, but as mentioed on here many times, keep it simple, if you dont like the taste of it then change one thing at a time and see what taste you get!


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

May also have pulled quick due to channelling which could be due to your distribution or more likely your tamp if you're using plastic one.

I would always try what I make to see how it tastes. The taste must be my guide.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Just personal opinion on the scales, I feel weighing output and a motta tamper is just overload if you are using preground.

The pressurised or not question is most important though.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I still use the plastic gaggia tamp, i know its ideal but i can get a decent tamp most times, gonna order a decent one in a couple of weeks.

Agree on the baskets, Malc you need to confirm which baskets you are using?

Do you tell the coffee shop you want the coffee ground for espresso?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Malc, don't go by time, don't stick to one brew ratio.

You can't presently adjust grind (which you need to be able to do to dial in a specific brew ratio/bean), so dose consistently, pull shots at different weights (start at the low end & work up) until you get something that's not bitter or sour. Don't aim for a shot size, go by flavour balance, you will have to live with the strength that you get an appealing flavour. As long as it is more than ~20secs pour you should be OK?

You can adjust dose (bigger to slow the flow) if necessary.

Put a grinder on your shopping list.


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Thanks for all your tips fellas. Brilliant. I have had my Gaggia for 4-5 years, but clearly I haven't been using it anywhere near it's potential. Only since I found the forum that I have learnt more in a few weeks than from the previous years.

My Gaggia came supplied with two baskets (one large and one small). I have always used the large one (even if making just one cup). Therefore the small one has never been used. Do I need to start using it if making just one cup? Will they be pressurised? Whats the difference?

I know about the grinder. Currently working on the wife, so I can complete my set-up. Then I can get the grind exactly right. A work in progress, but for the time being I go to my coffee shop and get them to grind me a bag. At least it is ultra fresh. I then put it in an air tight container in the cupboard. It doesn't hang around too long anyway (unlike the supermarket pre ground). My Gaggia is always prepped on the worktop (which is a little tricky as we have a small kitchen), but somethings have to be that way;-)


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Can you post photos of your baskets?

I make all my shots with the double basket, never used the single. You can take your weight up and down in the double to suit your taste.

If i was going to pull two cups from the same shot then i would jump upto the triple basket, but then i like my shots strong.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Which of the baskets in the photo do you have?

View attachment 6233


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

3 & 4. 3 Is the one I use all the time. 4 has never been used.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Time to ditch them buddy, they are pressured ones.

I have a couple of non pressured spare you can have, someone sent me them on here but it turns out i didn't need them.

PM me with your details and ill post them.


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Hey Ian,

Thanks for the offer of loan scales and tamper. However mine are on the the way, so I should have them in a few days. I see you are in Wakefield. I am in Halifax, so not too far away.

Cheers


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

Have been reading up on the two different baskets and I have the pressurised ones. That is obviously why my timings and quantities of coffee have been out. Now I realise why everyone was asking what type of basket I had. Time for the non presurised methinks. I should be able to get everything set up more accurately then.


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