# Water



## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and looking to move from a bean to cup to a 'proper' machine. I live in a very hard water area and am concerned about limescale. Is it easy to fully descale a twin boiler machine, or an HX on for that matter? Do I need to use bottled water, which would be a real pain?

Paul


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Advice I had from Fracino was not to use bottled/mineral water as that has it's own perils, and to use filtered water only.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Bottled water isn't worth the effort unless your water is really terrible in terms of taste, let alone solids.

Heat exchangers, at least mine, is pretty easy to descale, no idea about dual boilers.

Bottled water, i.e. mineral water may have more calcium in it than tap water.


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## yamyamcoffeeengineer (Sep 24, 2012)

have you thought of an inline filter under your sink or cupboard, last for upto 12 months and then easy to replace, just initial fitting required ? just have to flush them through before fitting, the levels drop immediately but start to increase depending on use, i used to have a pen to test the levels.


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

If your new machine is a tank model, use a "Brita Jug" (or similar) water supply.

If it's a plumbed-in machine, fit an inline* ion resin* filter with a quick-change cartridge eg Everpure, Brita, Omnipure. The initial setup will cost, but replacement cartridges on an annual basis will be cheap. You could even fit an extra inline tap on a T to give you softened water for your kettle.....

NB Do NOT use the polyphosphate cartridges !


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## P.B (Jun 3, 2012)

Coffeedoc,

As others have said you need to be very careful about bottled water. Mineral water will be just that - high in minerals. Volvic and Tesco Ashbecks are low in Calcium and are suitable.

Dual Boilers are far harder to descale than a HX. However, if you have a DB you won't need to use as much water (no cooling flush) so using bottled water might be viable from a cost perspective.

Don't use Essex tap water untreated, and my personal experience of Brita jug filters were that they were useless http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/andreja-goes-pop

Paul


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

P.B said:


> Coffeedoc,
> 
> As others have said you need to be very careful about bottled water. Mineral water will be just that - high in minerals. Volvic and Tesco Ashbecks are low in Calcium and are suitable.
> 
> ...


But you don't use brita filters to reduce scale, it's for the activated carbon that removes unpleasant tastes though right?

Blew a pstat on the alex, but can't remember whether that had anything to do with scale, don't recall seeing vast amounts of scale around there.


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## P.B (Jun 3, 2012)

RisingPower said:


> But you don't use brita filters to reduce scale, it's for the activated carbon that removes unpleasant tastes though right?
> 
> Blew a pstat on the alex, but can't remember whether that had anything to do with scale, don't recall seeing vast amounts of scale around there.


Just been on the brita web site and they do claim:

The patented BRITA technology reduces unpleasant and unwanted substances, such as limescale, heavy metals or chlorine. Tea and coffee can develop their full aroma, while high-quality domestic appliances are protected.

I used to use a Brita filter to reduce scale and in hind-sight it was inadequate given the hardness here. Maybe in areas where the hardness is less it might be sufficient but in CM15 it seemed to make zero difference to the kettle.

pstats just go. I always have a spare ready. About two years was probably the longest on of mine has lasted.


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## RisingPower (Dec 27, 2009)

Hmm, I have noticed brita water in the kettle doesn't scale nearly as much, so maybe it is enough to reduce scale around here?


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Brita jug filters contain ion resin + activated charcoal. Cut an old cartridge open & you'll see.......

In some really hard water areas (eg London, Herts, S Bucks), the cart. has to be changed quite often + kettles descaled also.

The commercial Brita filter cartridges (and Everpure, Omnipure, etc) also contain ion resin & some activated charcoal.

The ion resin reduces the hardness (= scale reduction) & the charcoal removes the chlorine etc.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Brits jug filters remove a fair bit of scale, but obviously they run out of stuff to exchange. I'd suggest testing the hardness of your water first.

I've fitted a filter under my sink with a small tap on the sink. It took half an hour. The tap was £5 on eBay. I used a self-cutting valve from B&q where you just screw it onto your cold copper pipe feed. I then used 6mm blue tube and speedfit fittings to connect it all up to a Brita Purity filter. I've got the cheapest Brita Purity head, but the other models allow you to set the mix of mains to filtered water, thus allowing you to set the hardness. I'd say it is a must as mine has a set 30% bypass which reduces the ppm from 220 to 120. Might not be enough if your water is super hard.

If you go down this route and you need help finding the correct speedfit connectors let me know


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## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

It seems that at 1.10 for five litres Tescos Ashbeck water seems the simplest solution. Every thing else needs adjustment etc

Paul:coffee:


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brita-purity-c150-water-filter-with-head-/261147271701?pt=UK_HGKitchen_SmallApp_RL&hash=item3ccd972215

Be quick!


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## Pablo (Mar 19, 2011)

CoffeeDoc said:


> It seems that at 1.10 for five litres Tescos Ashbeck water seems the simplest solution. Every thing else needs adjustment etc
> 
> Paul:coffee:


Although worse for the environment, the 6 x 2l packs of Ashbeck strangely work out cheaper at £2.10.


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## yamyamcoffeeengineer (Sep 24, 2012)

i am lucky to have a water filtration contact and he showed me a set up for dental practices which he gets the reading as low as 8ppm most of the coffee shops dont want to invest in any filtration on a regular basis, they pay for it once and dont realise it needs changing every 6-12 months. The joys of spending money ;-)


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