# Gaggia Classic Slow Pour



## urbanbumpkin

Hope someone can give some advice.

I've had my Gaggia Classic for just over a month and I've noticed that on the last 2-3 shots that I've put though have been incredibly slow (approx 50 sec to pour 2oz). The pump starts and then seems to go quieter after a couple of seconds (possibly straining).

I've just done a back flush using Puly Caff, thinking that this might rectify the issue but even after this I'm still experiencing the same slow pour.

I'm using a Gaggia standard basket (the non pressurised one).

The only thing I have changed recently is I'm using Lavazza beans (the black packet), but I wouldn't have thought that it make any difference.

I'm grinding beans on the same sitting on my Porlex hand grinder (3 clicks from the tightest).

Can I do some checks of the amount that should be flowing without the porter filter? Apologies I'm still new to the world of coffee, any suggestions?

Am I missing anything obvious before I attempt to dismantle it?


----------



## series530

It's probably fine as a unit. Most likely, change of beans means a change of grind. You would be amazed how a very small change can make a huge difference. I've been through this same problem, had the sick feeling in my stomach and the worry of something broken. ... so, dial the grind back a fair way so that it is relatively coarse and pull a shot. It shouldn't strain and you should get some sad coffee coming out. Then, gradually, set the grind finer until you reach your sweet spot again.

The pump is straining. The very fact that it is trying to work is a good sign. It's just hitting a brick wall of coffee!

Good luck.


----------



## suferick

2 things you might try:

1. Descale. If you use hard tap water, a month's use might be enough for scale to build up.

2. Unscrew the shower screen and clean any gunk you might find behind it.

What is the flow like without a filter basket and coffee in the way? That might shed a bit more light on the problem.


----------



## The Systemic Kid

urbanbumpkin said:


> Hope someone can give some advice.


Is your Classic new? Irrespective of this, 50 secs for a double shot is way over time and I would guess the coffee tasted like treacle, i.e. burnt. Most likely problem is your grind is too fine. By the way, different beans and different roasts affect the flow rate through the brew head.

It's a good idea to weigh your beans - if you haven't got any scales, it's worth investing in some. Set your dose at 16grms (that's ground weight). Tamp with moderate pressure. What's moderate pressure, I hear you thinking!!? You can get a ball park idea by pressing down on some bathroom scales. 30lb pressure is recommended by many but I think the Classic doesn't cope too well with really heavy tamping. The main thing is to be consistent. Aim to get your shot extraction (2oz) in 27 secs plus or minus a couple of secs. If the time is well over, adjust your grind to give coarser fines and vice versa if the time is under 27 secs. It's important not to change more than one variable at a time that is, dose weight, grind and timing. By keep any two constant you can tweak the third but the method outlined above will get you sorted.

I am pretty confident your machine is fine and don't apologise for asking questions - that's how we all learn and that's what the forum is for. Come back if you have any more questions.

Finally, whilst supermarket beans are OK, you would be amazed at the jump in shot taste using freshly roasted beans - worth giving them a try.


----------



## series530

Indeed, the tamp can make quite a difference if you are on the cusp. As the previous poster indicated, 30lb pressure is suggested but you are far better off with less. If you have a metal tamper but dont have scales (for instance), fill the portafilter to the top and just rub your finger along the rim of the filter so as to flatten the top of the coffee. Try to get enough in so that about 95% of the surface area of the coffee is flattened. Add some more if you need to. Then, with your tamper, press evenly so that the surface of the coffee is compressed down by about 7 or 8 mm. With mine, its the thickness of the bottom plate of the tamper. You dont need to ram it down like gun powder in a cannon. Just a gentle but persuasive push and twist. Then pour a shot and take it from there.


----------



## Steve_S_T

50 seconds is a long time for a shot but I must admit that I occasionally had that problem with my Classic. I tend to grind mostly at the number 2 setting on my MDF, but occasionally I'd grind a new bean at that and get your fifty(ish) second pour. That was usually solved by grinding at number 3. I also accidentally replicated that issue once by double tamping (iirc I scuffed the puck and re-tamped) and although I've heard the theory that you can't over tamp the reality is that you can, especially with a Classic.

Steve.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

suferick said:


> 2 things you might try:
> 
> 1. Descale. If you use hard tap water, a month's use might be enough for scale to build up.
> 
> 2. Unscrew the shower screen and clean any gunk you might find behind it.
> 
> What is the flow like without a filter basket and coffee in the way? That might shed a bit more light on the problem.


Thanks for the reply.

I haven't descaled as I'm in a soft water area

I have taken off the shower screen already and have given it a bit of a clean (but after I'd done the Puly Caff backflush).

I can't really tell what the flow should be like if the (i can't remember what it was like before), is there a guide as to what this should be without a portafilter?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Thanks all. I'll try it with some different beans or a coarser grind and see what happens.

I do have some scale so I'll try and weighing the beans to get an Idea of what's going in.

I'll also try and get the bathroom scales and try tamping less like a mad man.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

The Systemic Kid said:


> Finally, whilst supermarket beans are OK, you would be amazed at the jump in shot taste using freshly roasted beans - worth giving them a try.


Thanks for the advice. I have tried a couple of bags of locally roasted bean. I'm completely converted. My local roaster is on holiday at the moment hence the supermarket ones.


----------



## Steve_S_T

Also, further to Systemic Kid's comment about fresh beans, I have the entirely unscientifically proven feeling that supermarket beans are often older, staler and drier and so compact more densely, thereby (also) elongating the shot time.

Steve.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Thanks for all of you advice regarding the slow pour on my Gaggia Classic.

I've tried some different fresh beans but unfortunately I'm still getting the same slow results.

On my Porlex grinder I generally grind in 3-4 and with the new freshly roasted beans I've tried grinding on 5 & 6 and it's still taking 40 sec to pull a 2oz shot and I'm also tamping really lightly.

My first attempt on the beans ground on 5 produced no coffee coming through.

Is there any way of checking the machine. I'm getting the following if this:-

4oz in 12 secs from the group head.

3oz in 15 secs with a empty basket in the portafilter.

3oz in 10 secs with the portafilter and no basket

The flow does look weaker that I remember (although it could be just my imagination).

Are there any diagnostics I can do to check out the machines flow / pressure?

Or failing that work out what I'm doing fundamentally wrong.


----------



## Lasse

I had pretty much the same problem on a brand new machine. Managed to attach a pressure gauge to the portafilter and it showed a low pressure for a few seconds, then jumping up to 10 bar. To me it looks like the over pressure valve was stuck or somthing. This measurement also introduce a hefty back pressure... and now by pure magic the machine seems to work!

So you may try to back flush using a blind basket.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Hi Lasse

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I don't have a pressure gauge, where did you get yours from?

I've done 3 - 4 back flushes already since having the machine with Pulcaff and blind basket. Basically hitting the brew button for a few seconds till I hear the pump strain and then knocking it off. Should I be doing this for longer?

I repeated the backflush several times and then emptied the basket and then did it a few times with clean water. After this I took out the blind basket and just flushed the brew head through with clean water.

I've measured the water flow from the brew head (with and without the shower screen) and it seems to be producing 260ml in 30 secs. I have read somewhere that this should be approx 650ml in 1 minute (but I'm not sure if this was with an older version of the classic).

I'll (hopefully) attach a clip of the brew head flow. I'd be grateful if anyone can confirm if this looks normal.

Sorry to be a Nubbie Classic Neurotic!

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

I think this is this should be working. How does this flow look??


----------



## The Systemic Kid

urbanbumpkin said:


> I think this is this should be working. How does this flow look??


Flow rate looks fine. Another forum member had similar problems to you - same set up - Classic and Porlex. Turned out a spring in his grinder was broken or missing. Will PM him to have a look at your thread. Failing a pressure test, you could do a check with pre ground espresso from a supermarket - put in two scoops (14grms) better to weigh if you can - tamp lightly and time your shot. If extraction time is short, repeat with same dose but tamp a bit harder and see if extraction time increases. Of it does, repeat and tamp even harder and see if extraction takes even longer.


----------



## Big Tony

Hi mate,

your saviour is here!!! Well not really, but I had the exact same problems as you. First things first... Read this thread

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?9005-Wet-puck-tamper-question-and-Gaggia-Classic-not-producing-coffee!!


----------



## Big Tony

You will see that I suffered the same problems as you. I was timing my shots and worrying about the pressure problems from the classic. I'd read previous posts about other people with 3 click settings (on the porlex) from tightest and still getting good coffee. For me,I've never pulled a shot on that tightness of setting. From memory, I was pulling 2oz in 8 secs - just water. This proved that the classic was at a fast enough rate.

i dropped my click setting to 14 on the porlex... It was barely registering a click. I pulled 2oz shot of coffee in 13 seconds. I clicked it 3 tighter and tamped the same pressure (light to medium) ended up getting 2oz in about 43 secs. Released the click setting to 12 and tamped medium to hard - 2oz in 34 secs. And it went on like that...

To be honest, things haven't really changed. I tweak my porlex every day.... For instance this morning, I pulled a 2oz shot in 18 secs on the same coffee, same weight, same tamp that I did the night before when I banked 2oz in 29 secs!! I tweaked the porlex slightly tighter and tamped a bit harder. Pulled 2oz in 27 secs and it was the best coffee I've had since I started with this obsession.

im currently in the process of buying a eureka mignon coffee grinder which I know will produce amazing grind consistency. This will hopefully stabilise things in the coffee grind area.

My biggest advice to you is to go to click setting 14 or so on your porlex and grind 16.5g of coffee. Tamp medium to hard and Time your 2oz shot. Hopefully it'll be around 15 secs. Then tighten the click setting by one, grind another 16.5g, tamp the same and go again. It should be around 18-20 secs. Keep going until you hit the 27 to 33 second mark. Remember that I tweak mine with different results every day. Let me know how you go.

pm me if you want to exchange mobile numbers so we can chat over the phone if you like


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Nice one Tony!


----------



## urbanbumpkin

thanks Tony, improvement at last. The last shot I've done was at 9 clicks and took 20 secs. Will let you know how I get on.


----------



## Big Tony

Brilliant mate. I needed this advice when I was testing mine because I was believing that I should be pulling shots on click setting 3-5. I have just done mine this morning, 16.5g, medium tamp, 22 secs. It tasted really smooth but I maybe should've tamped harder. I'll try again at lunch and see whether I can get it closer to 30 secs. It goes someway to show what I mean about inconsistency when you're using a grinder like the porlex.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Yes I can't believe the click settings are so different for different people. I wonder if there has been any changes to the production of the Porlex grinder recently. The fact that the conical burr just appears to float up an down on it own seems a bit nuts.

I've found the below post where someone has adapted his own Porlex grinder to produce more consistent coarser grinds, I was going to give the "paper wedging" of the conical burr a go once I've got settled to see if it makes an improvement for espresso grinds.

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/564267

Thanks again for your help, you've really saved me a load of hassle.

PS Thanks to The Systemic Kid too!


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Good to hear your hassles are sorted.


----------



## Big Tony

No probs... What kind of setting, weight, tamp, and shot time are you getting now?


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Hi Tony

After several attempts I seem to getting the best results on my Porlex grinder on 6 clicks from tightest with a medium (as far as I can tell) tamp. I'm weighing 15.5g which pretty much fills my standard basket and the shot time is about 28 secs from when I flick the switch.

I'm never sure when you're meant to time from when the coffee hit the glass or from the switch. From flicking the switch to seeing something come through its about 4 secs.

Madly enough when I was grinding on 7 the shots were about 18 secs and grinding on 4-5 I was getting hardly anything come through. I also noticed that when I was grinding on +7 the crema's were really thick...I don't know if this has any significance.

Strange old results from the Porlex compared to other peoples experiences, but at least I seem to be getting a more constant result.

I have to say that any of the grinds lower than 5 were super fine powder like Turkish. I wonder if there's been a change in the production?


----------



## Big Tony

Well I'd say you're bang on the money. I was click setting 12 and getting great coffee. I time mine from the flick of the switch as do most people on here. I think I've read that 2mm of crema is around the mark you want to be looking for although I've had 3-4mm before.


----------



## Big Tony

Oh yeah... 4-5 seconds until you see coffee is pretty bang on as well. And like you, 1 click setting either side meant either loads of coffee too quick or a drop and choke!


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Cheers Tony, reassuring to hear that its not just me.


----------



## bronc

I have a similar issue with my Gaggia. I think that the problem is with the beans but the whole situation is very weird. The shot starts pouring perfectly and then midway it just slows down massively and starts dripping. This is noticeable on different grind settings. So if on 10 clicks on my Tiamo it starts pouring just fine and midway it starts dripping, on 12 clicks it starts pouring fast and then slows down. Why is this happening? I'm using home-roasted Brazil Daterra Bourbon beans which I kind of overroasted but still I can't explain this phenomenon to myself.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Thanks Bronc

Weirdly enough the beans I'm using are slightly over roasted, but I'm not getting the shot slow down midway through it's just slow all the way through. I'm pretty new to the world of coffee so the majority of the problems I'm having are "user error" related I'm sure.


----------

