# Steaming power of Sage DB?



## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Hi all

I am still deciding between Sage DB and expobar brewtus, and heard that steaming power of sage isn't as good as the expobars.

Can anyone please kindly tell me how steaming/frothing power of DB like?

Is it really weaker than the brewtus and does it take a while to froth the milk?

Thanks


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Sage is the easiest machine I have ever used for steaming. The Expobar is more powerful as it has a bigger boiler, but until you learn how to master it, you will wish you had the Sage....LOL. I have a Sage and have had an Expobar.


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> The Sage is the easiest machine I have ever used for steaming. The Expobar is more powerful as it has a bigger boiler, but until you learn how to master it, you will wish you had the Sage....LOL. I have a Sage and have had an Expobar.


Thanks for your opinion.

As you've used both machines that I always wanted to buy (and still), what would be your final verdict if you have to choose one?

I normally pull 4-5 shots consecutively in one go on a daily basis and they are all for lattes, so quick warm up/stability of temperatures/good steaming power would be ideal (now it sounds like I need to buy a commercial machine!)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

5 shots on the trot would be the limit of any domestic type machine as the group temp will start to waiver a bit. If you did two, then steamed and repeated then it would work. I often make 3 or 4 on the Sage but the group is not like a traditional E61 and copes quite well, as the electrics are responsible for producing water at the right temp......so, expecting others to disagree, possibly the Sage, but it is not really made for 5 on the trot, any more than the Expobar is.....sorry for the confusing answer


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> 5 shots on the trot would be the limit of any domestic type machine as the group temp will start to waiver a bit. If you did two, then steamed and repeated then it would work. I often make 3 or 4 on the Sage but the group is not like a traditional E61 and copes quite well, as the electrics are responsible for producing water at the right temp......so, expecting others to disagree, possibly the Sage, but it is not really made for 5 on the trot, any more than the Expobar is.....sorry for the confusing answer


It is indeed confusing!!

to sage or not to sage thats the question XD


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jonny11 said:


> It is indeed confusing!!
> 
> to sage or not to sage thats the question XD


Others should be able to chip in but I doubt that many ever get to make 5 on the trot! There will be machines out there that will cope admirably I expect. Expobar produce good value machines.... @DavecUK will know but not about the Sage bit


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Others should be able to chip in but I doubt that many ever get to make 5 on the trot! There will be machines out there that will cope admirably I expect. Expobar produce good value machines.... @DavecUK will know but not about the Sage bit


Thank you for your advice.

Will see if somebody has other opinion.

Sage is £1200 at lakeland and expobar is £1180 at BB.

Will keep checking a decent grinder here too.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jonny11 said:


> Thank you for your advice.
> 
> Will see if somebody has other opinion.
> 
> ...


You are looking at two very different machines and because of that, perhaps it's worth taking a little more time over the decision. Theres no rush, give it at least 4 weeks and do more research.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

The Sage is the most powerful steaming machine I have used so can only comment on that. As dfk has said it is easy to produce latte art quality milk. It seems to take me around 30 secs to steam enough milk for one latte. As you know it's a dual Boiler so you can pull the shot and steam at the same time. The time it takes after for you to pour your latte, empty portafilter and prepare for your next shot is more than enough time for the machine to be ready to go again and again. The winning factor for me about this machine is the heat up time. It could be ready in about 5 mins if you flushed the portafilter with warm water. If you have instagram have a look on my feed, there are a few videos showing the steaming capabilities of this machine.

http://www.instagram.com/homebarista_


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## classicMike (Mar 13, 2015)

I've had the Sage nearly two years, and quite often make four or five on the trot when friends come round. I think the record was 8. The steamer easily keeps up and delivers great textured milk, and the head temperature stays at 93 ( at least that's what the display says, and I have no reason to doubt it) Don't know anything about the Exobar. I'd buy another Sage in a heartbeat. YMMV!


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> You are looking at two very different machines and because of that, perhaps it's worth taking a little more time over the decision. Theres no rush, give it at least 4 weeks and do more research.


it seems extremely difficult to find a good second hand brewtus or a sage DB









I will spend some more time in them and see what would be better for me. thanks Dave


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Craig-R872 said:


> The Sage is the most powerful steaming machine I have used so can only comment on that. As dfk has said it is easy to produce latte art quality milk. It seems to take me around 30 secs to steam enough milk for one latte. As you know it's a dual Boiler so you can pull the shot and steam at the same time. The time it takes after for you to pour your latte, empty portafilter and prepare for your next shot is more than enough time for the machine to be ready to go again and again. The winning factor for me about this machine is the heat up time. It could be ready in about 5 mins if you flushed the portafilter with warm water. If you have instagram have a look on my feed, there are a few videos showing the steaming capabilities of this machine.
> 
> www.instagram.com/homebarista_


5 mins warm up is amazing! funny enough, I've seen your instagrams already - accidentally by searching 'breville and sage DB' without knowing that it was you.

Your opinion makes me lean towards the sage - will keep researching the matter. Very difficult to find a decent second hand DB though...


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

classicMike said:


> I've had the Sage nearly two years, and quite often make four or five on the trot when friends come round. I think the record was 8. The steamer easily keeps up and delivers great textured milk, and the head temperature stays at 93 ( at least that's what the display says, and I have no reason to doubt it) Don't know anything about the Exobar. I'd buy another Sage in a heartbeat. YMMV!


I will probably go for either machine, whichever comes up first in a For Sale forum! although it seems that it could take forever to find them here.

Both machines have PID but sage seems electronically more accurate in temp stability while an expobar feels more clinical and coffee-geeky!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There my be other aspects that might cause you to go to Sage. Maintenance, descaling in particular. It can be rather tricky on some machines. It isn't on any Sage machine. I thought about straying to other makes when I upgraded from a Barista Express and looked at the manuals of a number of machines and decided to stick with them. This was one of the reasons.

There is an alternative to used. I bought a refurbished one of xsitems.... on ebay.







I have some odd reasons for going that way and as some one will probably point out buy new off lakeland and they come with a 3 year warrantee, sell every 2.9999 years and buy another etc. The first one that came developed a fault on the first power up. Steam and then no steam. It wasn't too difficult to get a replacement. On that one I opened the drain taps and made sure the boilers were empty before powering it up. I suspect that the first one developed some form of air lock during transport. The machines come with a 12 month warrantee if refurbished. They also sell some as used and those just have the usual return in X days. The 12 month warrantee changes after 6 months to a partial refund after they have checked the machine out.








If mine breaks after 6 month I hope to find that I can repair it myself.

Looking around when I bought the BE Sage don't seem to have any more reliability problems than other makes.

John

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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ajohn said:


> There my be other aspects that might cause you to go to Sage. Maintenance, descaling in particular. It can be rather tricky on some machines. It isn't on any Sage machine. I thought about straying to other makes when I upgraded from a Barista Express and looked at the manuals of a number of machines and decided to stick with them. This was one of the reasons.
> 
> There is an alternative to used. I bought a refurbished one of xsitems.... on ebay.
> 
> ...


Hi John

Thank you for your input.

I do have read your experience about purchasing a sage through ebay and I considered this option too - but they looked too 'causal' for me to bet my money on a machine.

I am now considering an expobar brewtus or a sage DB - might get a DB if I have to from Lakeland for the sake of their good 3 year warranty.

Do you think we can simply hand out 2.99 yr old machine and get a new one like that? I know their warranty is based on customers 'satisfaction' but I don' know how easy it will be to change the machine like that.

From your experience, would you still take a sage over an expobar? or if you are thinking about upgrade, what would be your next machine?

Jon


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

No I believe all Sage associated warranties are repair and only replace if that doesn't work out. That is Sage standard 2 year. You would have to ask Lakelend what they do. I think the first option is always repair.

Pass on Expobar. If it is an HX machine whilst tempted to try one currently I would avoid it. HX stands for heat exchanger. There is one boiler heated to a temperature intended to produce steam - it's under pressure so well over 100C. The brew water passes through some form of heat exchanger in that boiler to heat it up. Simple explanation. If the water spends too much time in this it gets too hot so they have to be purged first and then the shot pulled. Purge - ditch some water out of the group head. If I ever tried one it would probably be cheap and used just to see what they are like and as it was cheap would probably need work. That later aspect can be seen as a sort of hobby in my case. HX machines are popular but I would be concerned about complications.

Other than that I am happy with the DB, could be for ever.







Other than a weird tamping problem and the wrong roast of beans switching from a BE hasn't been that bad. Easy actually.

One particular aspect for me on the DB is heat up time. About 3 mins. Then I just preheat the portafilter. That is a pretty big feature in my case as I prefer to be able to switch a machine on and use it. Might even be less than 3 min, I've not timed it. I generally find that around the time I've collected the bits and pieces it's up to heat. My Fracino Piccino is pretty quick compared with other makes - about 15 min for the machine to fully heat up and another 5 or so if I let it fully heat the portafilter. The boilers heat up quickly but metalwork needs heating as well which takes time. Sage us a separate heater and also make some use of plastic in the grouphead hence the speed.

I don't use steam much now. All drink long blacks. The DB's steam looks to be more powerful than my BE and even that can be used to froth milk for 2 rather large cappuccino in a larger jug than the one Sage supply. The BE double basket may be a bit lacking in size for running 2 shots at the same time. If that was the case on the DB a commercial E61 triple might help get more grounds in.

John

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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ajohn said:


> No I believe all Sage associated warranties are repair and only replace if that doesn't work out. That is Sage standard 2 year. You would have to ask Lakelend what they do. I think the first option is always repair.
> 
> Pass on Expobar. If it is an HX machine whilst tempted to try one currently I would avoid it. HX stands for heat exchanger. There is one boiler heated to a temperature intended to produce steam - it's under pressure so well over 100C. The brew water passes through some form of heat exchanger in that boiler to heat it up. Simple explanation. If the water spends too much time in this it gets too hot so they have to be purged first and then the shot pulled. Purge - ditch some water out of the group head. If I ever tried one it would probably be cheap and used just to see what they are like and as it was cheap would probably need work. That later aspect can be seen as a sort of hobby in my case. HX machines are popular but I would be concerned about complications.
> 
> ...


Seems like it will be a sage for me then - been confused bewteen brewtus and DB for the last 2 weeks!

I was thinking about a brewtus DB - not the HX one. Many people in this forum have recommended this one too, hence my confustion and hesitation between 2 awesome machines.

Price wise, sage is slightly more expensive than a brewtus, being 1299 and 100 pounds more expensive than the expobar.

I will keep checking Lakeland and JL to see if they would do any discount or sale.

How's this one looking by the way? it's from ebay too - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sage-The-Dual-Boiler-Coffee-Espresso-Maker-Machine-Silver-BES920UK-RRP-1200/391549150800?epid=0&hash=item5b2a25e650:g:8jwAAOSwFe5XyWyl

Beside, I'm thinking of getting Mazzer SJ too - think it's a good pair for both machines?


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

jonny11 said:


> I will keep checking Lakeland and JL to see if they would do any discount or sale.


https://m.thehut.com/kitchen-appliances/sage-bes920uk-the-dual-boiler-espresso-coffee-machine/11239343.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3e3T3ajY2gIVZrvtCh3UwwQKEAQYBSABEgKv7_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COrQxe6o2NoCFWaiUQodUxEE3Q

They also have 15% off for new users but this might not work for electrical goods!


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

jonnycooper29 said:


> https://m.thehut.com/kitchen-appliances/sage-bes920uk-the-dual-boiler-espresso-coffee-machine/11239343.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3e3T3ajY2gIVZrvtCh3UwwQKEAQYBSABEgKv7_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COrQxe6o2NoCFWaiUQodUxEE3Q
> 
> They also have 15% off for new users but this might not work for electrical goods!


1099.99 and 200 pounds cheaper!! Not bad at all, and they provide 2 years manufacturers guarantee - any experience with The Hut's CS or warranty at all?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

jonny11 said:


> 1099.99 and 200 pounds cheaper!! Not bad at all, and they provide 2 years manufacturers guarantee - any experience with The Hut's CS or warranty at all?


See if lakeland will pricematch them & you get a 3 year warranty.


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ashcroc said:


> See if lakeland will pricematch them & you get a 3 year warranty.


Thanks for your info!

Just phoned them and they will price match! A company called Iwoot sells it even cheaper - will call them back again later to see if they will price match this too. Thanks


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

When I clicked on the ebay DB link it came up that I had bought this item. They seem to use the same listing each time they sell one. I've no idea where they come from but they seem to be strictly controlled on how they can sell. Manufacturer refurb suggests that they have probably been in the hands of Coffee Classics - the people who do Sage repairs and look after spares. They told me some have to be sold as used.

Grinders? Yes you'll need one. A fair few on here may spend more on that than the machine. I used Sage grinders and still do. I don't like spending money when I am unsure about something I want to buy so managed to find a refurbished Mazzer Mini A. The description i was given wasn't entirely accurate so I received a refund making me an even happier bunny. At the moment I am using the Mazzer as some use the Jolly - lens hood mod to puff residue grinds out and weighing beans in. Personally I wouldn't buy a grinder with a doser on it. All I would say in this area is that at the low cost end Sage are likely to be rather hard to beat. Used grinders often have a doser, some people mod those a bit as well. Used on demand models are harder to find.

Next step on the Mazer at some point will be it's hopper and using it's timer. Seems this may not work out well so next may be make a tube hopper and a weight to press the beans down. This it seems should give more accurate dosing as the weight of beans in the hopper goes down. I have seen that effect on a Sage grinder but found that a lowish fill avoided it.

Before buying the Mazzer I did wonder about this model also sold with a Fracino label on it

https://espresso-machines.nu/cunill-tranquilo-tron?___store=english

Not widely available in the UK and more expensive off Fracino. I've no idea if they are any good.

John

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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

ajohn said:


> When I clicked on the ebay DB link it came up that I had bought this item. They seem to use the same listing each time they sell one. I've no idea where they come from but they seem to be strictly controlled on how they can sell. Manufacturer refurb suggests that they have probably been in the hands of Coffee Classics - the people who do Sage repairs and look after spares. They told me some have to be sold as used.
> 
> Grinders? Yes you'll need one. A fair few on here may spend more on that than the machine. I used Sage grinders and still do. I don't like spending money when I am unsure about something I want to buy so managed to find a refurbished Mazzer Mini A. The description i was given wasn't entirely accurate so I received a refund making me an even happier bunny. At the moment I am using the Mazzer as some use the Jolly - lens hood mod to puff residue grinds out and weighing beans in. Personally I wouldn't buy a grinder with a doser on it. All I would say in this area is that at the low cost end Sage are likely to be rather hard to beat. Used grinders often have a doser, some people mod those a bit as well. Used on demand models are harder to find.
> 
> ...


Thanks John

Would you recommend buying off the ebay seller? it's certainly cheaper than a new one but not every 2nd hand is bad (I hope).

As far as the grinder is concerned, I will probably get a Mazzer SJ - a few ones on sale on eBay - should get one soon. Using a vario for the moment btw


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I bought a second hand Sage DB that came with a John Lewis 3 year warranty (with 2 years left on it).

The Brewtus DB is a great machine. Gary **** traded his in for a Sage DB.


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I bought a second hand Sage DB that came with a John Lewis 3 year warranty (with 2 years left on it).
> 
> The Brewtus DB is a great machine. Gary **** traded his in for a Sage DB.


Was your 2nd hand DB from CFUK? It's very difficult to find a decent 2nd hand DB anywhere







It seems that sage DB has been recommended more, so it might be my way forward


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jonny11 said:


> Was your 2nd hand DB from CFUK? It's very difficult to find a decent 2nd hand DB anywhere
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was from CFUK. Having the John Lewis extended guarantee (which is transferable) helped.

So when it came up I jumped on it. I was looking for a used Brewtus DB at the time.

DIY fixes to Brewtus's are easier than Sage DBs


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

urbanbumpkin said:


> It was from CFUK. Having the John Lewis extended guarantee (which is transferable) helped.
> 
> So when it came up I jumped on it. I was looking for a used Brewtus DB at the time.
> 
> DIY fixes to Brewtus's are easier than Sage DBs


My head says a sage DB for its stability and quirk warm up time, but my heart says brewtus for its beautiful chrome and traditional espresso machine look! Very hard to choose between 2 beauties...


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

From what I have seen with the little maintenance and repairs on my sage most repairs seem quite straight forward and easily done by a competent diyer. Spare parts are easy to get via sage and can be installed either by yourself or through coffee classics. As with any coffee machine they all need some kind of maintenance. Mine now is just 2 years old and have replaced steam wand valve and a solenoid. Both were replaced in less than an hour.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jonny11 said:


> My head says a sage DB for its stability and quirk warm up time, but my heart says brewtus for its beautiful chrome and traditional espresso machine look! Very hard to choose between 2 beauties...


2 completely different beasts. Quick warm is great and it's pretty solid temp wise.

I probably make 2 drinks a day, 3 max so sage fits the bill.

It's great for a domestic machine.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It takes a certain sort of person to buy a machine on eBay from XS systems. I know @ajohn did but that is partly because he is convinced that if anything goes wrong with it, the parts will be available and he has the skillsets to fix it.

Personally, I would not go down that route, ever. You do not know why the machine has been returned, who owned it, how it was abused, treated, looked after etc etc. For me, I like the new factor, even over the potential saving. There is a big difference between a 3 year Lakeland warranty and 6 months from XS, even allowing for the price differential.

You can assume that with the Expobar type machine, it will basically run for ever and ever with all parts being available. As much as I like the Sage DB, I cannot say that I have any faith at all in its potential longevity. I doubt I will keep mine anything like 3 years. If by any chance I did, I would just bin it if it broke down outside warranty, as I would a tv as I do not have the skill sets to fix it.

So, Sage with all its advantages except belief and knowledge that the next time you press the power button it will work, or the more traditional machine which takes longer to warm up but will last a lifetime


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Valid point from DFK regarding warranty. Sage do outsource the maintenance of the Sage machines to a UK based company (who's name escapes me), but you can contact them directly to fix it if you're not that technically minded.

Edit I think it's Coffee Classics that do the servicing/ repairs for sage.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Valid point from DFK regarding warranty. Sage do outsource the maintenance of the Sage machines to a UK based company (who's name escapes me), but you can contact them directly to fix it if you're not that technically minded.
> 
> Edit I think it's Coffee Classics that do the servicing/ repairs for sage.


Thats right Clive, but CC told me they could only source parts through Sage and not everything is available meaning a % of machines cannot be fixed......draw your own conclusions


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

Alright guys

Thank you all for your input and feedback on what you've experienced from both machines.

I still haven't decided fully yet, but BB now stopped stocking brewtus DB as a newer facelifted version might come out at the end of this year.

Therefore, brewtus is now out of stock (although a plumed in model is still available).

This brings me to the attention of a Rocket, Izzo and ECM!!

Things getting more complicated, but more importantly, more expensive!

I will do more research in these machines, and hopefully I can post some nice pictures of what I would end up with


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've had a QM Andrea which is HX but I've not used any of the above so can't comment I'm afraid.

I'd do some research on the specific models you're looking at. You could look at used versions of these if any come up on the forum.

What grinder are you pairing these with?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It's a person choice for machines. I've gone down the Sage DB path







, I really rate them but can understand why they're not for everyone


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

jonny11 said:


> Alright guys
> 
> Thank you all for your input and feedback on what you've experienced from both machines.
> 
> ...


Don't discount Quick Mill.


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I've had a QM Andrea which is HX but I've not used any of the above so can't comment I'm afraid.
> 
> I'd do some research on the specific models you're looking at. You could look at used versions of these if any come up on the forum.
> 
> What grinder are you pairing these with?


Mazzer SJ - been looking up ebay too. seems that they have some good used SJ out there


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## jonny11 (Apr 21, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> Don't discount Quick Mill.


I won't! Thanks x


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There has been a change as far as repair etc goes on Sage. It has become a little more difficult. CC would supply parts direct themselves, now it has to go through Sage. CC can provide part numbers if needed so they can be ordered from Sage. Sage probably stock consumable parts such as grouphead seals and CC the more exotic stuff. This became apparent when I tried to order something direct from CC. Also when Sage sent me the wrong part due to a mistake on their web site - 2 shower screens shown one much dearer than the other. I bought the more expensive one - an internal part. On that order this came from CC the rest of the order from somewhere else. Sages distribution centre I suspect, that probably holds all of the parts shown on their web pages - or maybe not.







I asked Sage why they didn't just make parts lists and diagrams available and was told can't do that for obvious reasons. It's an unusual attitude on many many domestic items, even more so on espresso machines.

Espresso machines are a bit odd though. For instance it's generally thought to be a good idea to take the covers off machines periodically and take a look inside. Can you imagine the safety aspect a company that makes consumer items would need to add for even just doing just that if they included instructions in the manual. The main one would be unplug the machine but it's a weird world and often items have screws etc that are specifically designed to try and stop people getting covers etc off in case they don't.

Personally I suspect a lot of faults are down to maintenance on all machines used at home maybe augmented by no facilities for descaling them easily. On Sage I found details of 3 repairs all dated. Replace 3 way. Mentioned that some clean them out.This person replaced it. Some internal part of the grouphead - I think that may have been updated. Thermal fuse on the steam boiler. It sounds like a software release could result in the steam boiler being heated with no or insufficient water in it. Looks to be some time ago and not sure if the particular DB model ever reached the UK. This could also burn out the element. Some one was fitting the usual self resetting types but the element could still burn out. Comments - seems to be from CC, take no notice of Sage descale schedule and do it every 2 months. A boiler replaced. Also another make. Yearly service professionally. Needed a new boiler, always used bottled water so maybe never descaled. Maybe the filter was never changed. Didn't seem to be down to leaks.

To me the message is clear. For instance I recently had a period of messy pucks. Rather than wait for the machine to tell me to back flush with a cleaner I'll do it soon. I also do a clean water back flush now and again. The clean me cycle on the DB is 200 shots. At 3 a day that's 66 days, at the max I do 5 a day 40 days. On the BE I descaled every other cleaning cycle. I don't know when the DB will tell me to descale and have set it for harder water than we actually get. As it was a refurb I descaled it twice when it was received.







It takes a while on a DB with several flushes.

One of several reasons for a refurb in my case was not sure. My Piccino was bought as it was for the same reason. Before I sell it I need to check that it was as described - no more than 20 odd shots plus what I have pulled on it. It was under warrantee. 2 reasons for not sticking with it, mainly heat up time but also I don't want to use a kettle for my long blacks.

John.

_


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ajohn said:


> but also I don't want to use a kettle for my long blacks.
> 
> John.
> 
> _


John, I doubt you will find many advocates telling you to use your coffee machine as a kettle. Why not of course, or it would not have a water spout.....sure @DavecUK will chip in somewhere!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> John, I doubt you will find many advocates telling you to use your coffee machine as a kettle. Why not of course, or it would not have a water spout.....sure @DavecUK will chip in somewhere!


The everlasting choice between the tediousness of filling a kettle vs filling the coffee machine water tank. I know what I'd choose every single time. Being plumbed in would undoubtedly change things of course.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> The everlasting choice between the tediousness of filling a kettle vs filling the coffee machine water tank. I know what I'd choose every single time. Being plumbed in would undoubtedly change things of course.


I don't see that there is much difference really. Both need filling. The DB is easy to fill. I just use a jug. Boiling water out of a kettle is sometimes reckoned to be too hot for coffee - it is for instant actually. If you happen to drink a decent instant at times try putting milk in first to cool the water when it goes in.

LOL Due to an odd position for the sink in the evolving new kitchen we now use a hot water dispenser that has a setting for coffee. That needs filling too though. It dolls out water in 20ml increments from 150 to 1.5L

John

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