# Nuova Simonelli Musica mods and undocumented features :)



## stevenh

So I've got my Musica back after getting some warranty work done by Frank at Ferrari Espresso... Thought I'd post some pics...

Before new water font...










With new water font... This is to prevent water spraying everywhere when dispensing hot water...










With adaptor for Rancilio Silvia 1 hole steam tip...










The steam tip was just for my inexperience with the 4 hole and for making smaller amounts of milk... Actually managed to make much nicer foam









Not the best but better than previous attempts


















So while the machine was away I had been watching loads of YouTube vids and stuff and came across a French one that shows a hidden feature not in the user guides... When in the same menu for setting preinfusion, you can activate a 'solenoid delay' feature by pressing the middle manual pour button. What this does is when you brew, the pump activates first, then 4 seconds later the solenoid activates. Not sure exactly what this is for but I'm guessing it allows the system to start pressurising the lines before opening the solenoid... This can be used in conjunction with the preinfusion feature...

Another thing I accidentally noticed today which fixes an annoyance I had is that if power is applied to the machine, it will go to the last state it was in... Eg if machine was on then turn on main switch then machine will be on and not in standby... This is very useful as it allows using a socket timer to turn machine on in the morning for warming it up... Previously I thought this was not possible due to it using a soft keypad...

Hope my findings will help others with this machine


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## Mrboots2u

Cheers for the post always good to have info on peoples machines !


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## stevenh

Next project after warranty runs out will be to replace gauge with a dual brew/boiler pressure gauge


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## stevenh

So 3 years on I decided to give the machine a bit of servicing and remove the grouphead for some cleaning and inspection.

To my surprise, the much talked about feature of this machine - the Gigleurs were missing! Turns out that some of these machines left the factory with them missing! That would explain why the temperature is a bit on the high side...

I've ordered replacements from Elektros hopefully will be able to fit them this week and see how things improve... if only I checked this at the beginning...

Oh another thing I've not mentioned is I had to replace the one way valve with a full metal one as the original had a plastic part inside which broke easily...

Rant over.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> So 3 years on I decided to give the machine a bit of servicing and remove the grouphead for some cleaning and inspection.
> 
> To my surprise, the much talked about feature of this machine - the Gigleurs were missing! Turns out that some of these machines left the factory with them missing! That would explain why the temperature is a bit on the high side...
> 
> I've ordered replacements from Elektros hopefully will be able to fit them this week and see how things improve... if only I checked this at the beginning...
> 
> Oh another thing I've not mentioned is I had to replace the one way valve with a full metal one as the original had a plastic part inside which broke easily...
> 
> Rant over.


hi mate, have just bought a used musica dont know if mine has the Gigleurs either how can you tell?.. had a look on elektros site but couldn't find any

Gigleurs are they called something else, there are a few questions i have if you dont mind me asking being you've had yours for a while


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## MatBat

As this topic has resurfaced - if you're interested in NS Musica mods check out Matthellar on Instagram (and his another account nsmusicamods) - he's done all sorts to his machine including manual pressure profiling and brew head temp and pressure measurement.


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## eddie57

MatBat said:


> As this topic has resurfaced - if you're interested in NS Musica mods check out Matthellar on Instagram (and his another account nsmusicamods) - he's done all sorts to his machine including manual pressure profiling and brew head temp and pressure measurement.


unfortunately not on instagram any other way of viewing?


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## stevenh

Thanks Matbat I'll check out his page. Eddie feel free to PM me any questions you have. Whereabouts are you located?


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## MatBat

eddie57 said:


> unfortunately not on instagram any other way of viewing?


Not that I'm aware of, although you might be able to see without signing up(?) - try: https://www.instagram.com/matthellyar/?hl=en

* Apologies, there was a typo in my previous post. Its* matthellyar *(not Matthellar)


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## stevenh

Think you can view without signing up he's done some nice mods


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## eddie57

yea i can see the photos amazing what hes done.. does he go into detail on Instagram how he actually moded it like step by step?


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## stevenh

Damn his mods are insane! Too much for me...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Damn his mods are insane! Too much for me...


did you see my post where i asked you about Gigleurs?


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## stevenh

Sorry I missed that, the Gigleurs are on elektros as part of oscar 1 modifications. My Musica would be almost constantly flash boiling at the brew head and water flow unsteady. If you do a good flush then wait 20-30secs and it's still steaming when you flush then that's similar to my problem. It is now much more stable with the Gigleurs in.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Sorry I missed that, the Gigleurs are on elektros as part of oscar 1 modifications. My Musica would be almost constantly flash boiling at the brew head and water flow unsteady. If you do a good flush then wait 20-30secs and it's still steaming when you flush then that's similar to my problem. It is now much more stable with the Gigleurs in.


ah gigler got it


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## stevenh

Yeh don't know which is the right spelling


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Yeh don't know which is the right spelling


its gigler on elektros site at least the one i was on..


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## stevenh

You can remove grouphead to check, wasn't hard to remove... and can give it a nice good soak in descale solution clean it up a bit.


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## MatBat

eddie57 said:


> yea i can see the photos amazing what hes done.. does he go into detail on Instagram how he actually moded it like step by step?


No unfortunately there isn't much step by step explanation.

This link is more relevant for anyone else looking: https://www.instagram.com/nsmusicamods/?hl=en


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## eddie57

MatBat said:


> No unfortunately there isn't much step by step explanation.
> 
> This link is more relevant for anyone else looking: https://www.instagram.com/nsmusicamods/?hl=en


nice one cheers mat


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## Tokar

Stevenh, i also hate that water is spraying everywhere on my Musica.

DId this water front solved the problem? Can you send me a link where i can buy one?

I have Musica for almost 3 years now, few days ago was the first time that i opened it, and got really dissapointed in built quality.

ABS plastic on the sides and back became very brittle and it cracked in few places very easily even though i was really carefull and followed all the instructions for dissasembly.

Everything started with magnetic float. That was the first part that stopped working. Price of this machine should be at least 30-40% lower than it is.

So i decided to pimp it a bit.


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## stevenh

Hi Tokar,

Yes the new font for the water pipe has stopped it from spraying, it was all done by Ferrari Espresso when it was getting repaired, I will try to dig out the receipt to see what exactly was fitted...

Agree on the build, don't like the plastic parts.


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## stevenh

It was a water font from an Elektra, think it was quite expensive though...


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> It was a water font from an Elektra, think it was quite expensive though...


Thanks Stevenh, i will try to find it.

Yeah, it has too much plastic parts. I will try to reinforce plastic endings with stainless steel inserts to make plastic stronger so it wouldn't break during dissasembly.


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## stevenh

Tokar, do you have a video of your machine working? Most of the videos I've seen on YouTube seems to have the delay on the delivery solenoid enabled so the pump starts, then a few seconds later you hear the click from the delivery solenoid activating, followed by optional pre-infusion. Just interested to know what the default settings are out of factory as I got mines second hand many years ago...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Tokar, do you have a video of your machine working? Most of the videos I've seen on YouTube seems to have the delay on the delivery solenoid enabled so the pump starts, then a few seconds later you hear the click from the delivery solenoid activating, followed by optional pre-infusion. Just interested to know what the default settings are out of factory as I got mines second hand many years ago...


mine the same as yours bought second hand and the same 4 second delay


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## Tokar

Stevenh, it works like you described. I saw some videos on YouTube and it works like in those videos.

I can't make video now. I took off silicone hose that is returning water to boiler from brew head. It started leaking from pulycaff. I want to replace all silicon hoses with teflon hoses.

As soon as i replace those i will make the video.


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## stevenh

Tokar said:


> Stevenh, it works like you described. I saw some videos on YouTube and it works like in those videos.
> 
> I can't make video now. I took off silicone hose that is returning water to boiler from brew head. It started leaking from pulycaff. I want to replace all silicon hoses with teflon hoses.
> 
> As soon as i replace those i will make the video.


Tokar, do you mean the short hose above the T-piece going up to the fill solenoid?

How did pulycaff get into there?

Shouldn't need to replace any of the plastic hoses...


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## Tokar

It's this hose on the pic. It started dripping.

Correct me if i am wrong, but i think it works like this... When i put blind filter and start back flushing, water with pulycaff goes through this hose, and puly is slowly eating the material.

Friend told me that same thing happens on their Slayers and it's written in their manual that it should be replaced every 3 months. They replaced the silicon hose with teflon hose and it lasts much longer.


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## stevenh

Oh that's just the pressure release from the 3 way grouphead valve it just dumps the excess brew pressure at the end of the shot and the water goes to the drip tray...

Maybe the clip has come loose or there's some blockage in it?

Easy to remove and clean.


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## stevenh

I'm considering a rotary pump upgrade for the Musica... anyone have experience with brushless DC motors?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> I'm considering a rotary pump upgrade for the Musica... anyone have experience with brushless DC motors
> 
> arite mate when your pulling a shot on your musica how long after the solenoid kicks in do you see any coffee come through filter?
> 
> mine takes ages


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## stevenh

I can set mines to be either 0 or 4sec delay... see my first post...

It seems to be a feature added to the 'silent' version I.e. Current version to compensate for the addition of the 0.8 gigleur at the pump to reduce noise...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> I can set mines to be either 0 or 4sec delay... see my first post...
> 
> It seems to be a feature added to the 'silent' version I.e. Current version to compensate for the addition of the 0.8 gigleur at the pump to reduce noise...


no not the 4 second delay.. after the pump kicks in it can take about 15 seconds or more before any coffee starts to come through portafilter


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## stevenh

Do you have pre-infusion enabled as well? I usually get coffee coming out after a 6-7secs

Listen to the pitch of the pump... before the solenoid comes on the pump needs to have reached pressure, if you flushed for too long it will take 10-12secs to reach pressure


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Do you have pre-infusion enabled as well? I usually get coffee coming out after a 6-7secs
> 
> Listen to the pitch of the pump... before the solenoid comes on the pump needs to have reached pressure, if you flushed for too long it will take 10-12secs to reach pressure


ah so might be pulling the shot to soon after flush?


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## eddie57

i only give it a few seconds flush


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## stevenh

How long and what does your flush look like?

After flushing you can either press the middle button a few times cancelling each time before solenoid comes on just to build up some pressure.


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## stevenh

How much steam are you seeing? Should get no more than 1s of steam even if set to max pressure and been idle for a few hours...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> How much steam are you seeing? Should get no more than 1s of steam even if set to max pressure and been idle for a few hours...


about 3 seconds of steam


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## stevenh

Hmm make sure it's up to pressure before you flush and see if the water flow is steady or not... there should be a little steam then steady flow of water...


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## eddie57

Will try that tomorrow, just put a new sirai presurestat on just incase it was that. seems to be a bit better bar pressure is about 1.2


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## stevenh

I've set my sirai to 1.4, when you have time worth taking the group head off and see if the Gigleurs are missing like mines


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## eddie57

Will have a go at that tomorrow as well, I will get to the bottom of it hopefully


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## stevenh

It's quite easy to do:

Unscrew led box.

Loosen screw holding steam lever coupling, there's a hole on the right side of the machine to access the screw...

Remove 4 screws holding front in place.

Slide front panel forward off just enough to get access to hx return pipe nut.

Onscrew nut for top hx pipe and 3 hex bolts holding group head to metal panel.

Disconnect solenoid and flexible hoses


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## eddie57

OK nice one


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## stevenh

You can also consider removing the 0.8 gigleur to increase flow rate but it will make the pump much louder though.


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## eddie57

My machine is 28th December 2012 did they have them then?


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## stevenh

It should've started end of November 2012... the 4s solenoid delay I think was only added for this change.., they've also done the same for the new oscar 2.


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## eddie57

Yea mine has the 4 second delay, it's just that all the videos on YouTube show the coffee coming out almost immediately after the stat kicks in, I might be reading to much into it


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## stevenh

Listen out for the change in pitch you can hear the pump is at pressure before the solenoid opens...

Do this experiment:

Backflush before your shot.


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> Oh that's just the pressure release from the 3 way grouphead valve it just dumps the excess brew pressure at the end of the shot and the water goes to the drip tray...
> 
> Maybe the clip has come loose or there's some blockage in it?
> 
> Easy to remove and clean.


Yes and when you clean machine with blind filter most of the water goes through that hose due to the excess brew pressure that blind filter is making. Same thing is happening to Matt Hellyar on the link bellow. Look at the hose. It changed the color and started to leak slowly.


__
http://instagr.am/p/BO0LrEVA0UB/


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## stevenh

It's just grease oils accumulated from the old coffee. You can remove that hose and give it a nice good soak and scrub to clean it up a bit.

Unless the clip holding it to the solenoid is loose, it shouldn't leak, only a small amount of water/coffee is released at the end of brewing or during backflushing, not enough to damage it...


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## Tokar

2 meters of PTFE (teflon) hose costs 9eur, so it's easier to change.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> You can also consider removing the 0.8 gigleur to increase flow rate but it will make the pump much louder though.


is this a gigler


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## stevenh

Nope that's a pressure relief valve for when things somehow get really screwed up, to see the Giggleur you need to remove the group head...


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## stevenh

That was mines with no gigleur in it...


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## stevenh

This is what they're supposed to look like with the gold one (smaller hole) screws into the return pipe connector of the grouphead and the brown one into the other h/x pipe connector of the grouphead.

http://elektros.it/it/en/Oscar_modification_Kit/gigler.html


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> This is what they're supposed to look like with the gold one (smaller hole) screws into the return pipe connector of the grouphead and the brown one into the other h/x pipe connector of the grouphead.


cant see nothing mate, i took most of it apart opened up the solenoid valve seems to be fine spring and piston working fine, didn't have a hex key at the time so couldn't take group off put it all back together and found one doh


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## stevenh

Updated the link forgot to paste it lol

Have a look at this too:


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## stevenh

Oh Eddie did you try doing backflush before you brewed did that make difference to how long before your coffee came out?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Updated the link forgot to paste it lol
> 
> Have a look at this too:


that was a bugger using a tiny hex key got there in the end after slicing my thumb on the cover

any how here's the photo's









no gigleur's?


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## stevenh

Need to shine a torch in to see... you can try putting in hex key to see if it can catch the gigleur can't remember what size though... it screws in quite deep... if you see thread all the to the bottom with no hex like thing inside then they're missing


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Need to shine a torch in to see... you can try putting in hex key to see if it can catch the gigleur can't remember what size though... it screws in quite deep... if you see thread all the to the bottom with no hex like thing inside then they're missing


no mate nothing in there, just put it all back together waiting on heating up make sure there is no leaks before i put side panel and top back on


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## stevenh

ok that explains why your grouphead is so hot, mine was like that it is now much more stable now...

if you going to order from elektros might want to see if anyone else wants to order anything together


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## eddie57

it seems it will be a lot easier fitting the gigleur's than checking to see if they are there lol


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## stevenh

Haha I can take my grouphead on and off in about 5 mins now lol


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## eddie57

is it high postage costs?


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## stevenh

In comparison to how much the Gigleurs are lol and if you want them fast


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## eddie57

crap design with them side panels tho with the plastic lugs


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## stevenh

Yeh would've been better if the panels were more solid


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Oh Eddie did you try doing backflush before you brewed did that make difference to how long before your coffee came out?


 i back flushed the day before haven't done directly before a shot tho


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> This is what they're supposed to look like with the gold one (smaller hole) screws into the return pipe connector of the grouphead and the brown one into the other h/x pipe connector of the grouphead.
> 
> http://elektros.it/it/en/Oscar_modification_Kit/gigler.html


Stevenh, i just removed group head now. Also no gigleur. Is it worth getting one?


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## stevenh

Definitely! Get with Eddie and save on postage


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> Definitely! Get with Eddie and save on postage


I would, but i am not from the UK.


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## Tokar

Pimping Musica... Carbon side panels.


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## stevenh

Nice!

I still like the one that Matt on instagram did with it all white...


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## Tokar

This was more tempting... Powder coating is easy


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## stevenh

Tokar, Eddie, can yous send me the date and serial number of your machines? Gianni from Elektros is curious and wants to check with the factory on why they are missing...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Tokar, Eddie, can yous send me the date and serial number of your machines? Gianni from Elektros is curious and wants to check with the factory on why they are missing...


hi steve my sn is 330099

date 28/11/12


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> Tokar, Eddie, can yous send me the date and serial number of your machines? Gianni from Elektros is curious and wants to check with the factory on why they are missing...


Stevenh, my SN is 330740, DATE: 04/12/12.

I didn't notice this before.. It was made in 2012 and i bought it in 2014.


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## stevenh

Thanks I'll forward the information on.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Thanks I'll forward the information on.


hi mate how do you descale the musica?


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## stevenh

You can descale the hx just by filling the tank with descale solution and just set it to dispense water through the group head and then the water tap. I also usually backflush with the descale solution too. Then leave it for 15 mins. Then run through rest of the solution and replace with tank of clean water and run through whole tank through grouphead and water tap and backflush a few times.

Good idea to disconnect the boiler fill solenoid to avoid solution getting into boiler if only doing hx.


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## stevenh

If descaling steam part of boiler I usually do the following:

1. Empty boiler by removing end stop nut and use a bit of foil to guide the water into a basin. I'm going to fit drain valve next time.

2. Fill tank with descale solution.

3. Turn machine on let it fill the boiler, it will stop a few times to stop pump from overheating so just turn it off and on.

4. Either open steam valve and disconnect level probe to let it overfill the boiler until liquid comes out of steam wand or just fill till it stops. Turn off.

5. Let it sit for 15-20mins

6. Swirl it a little

7. Empty boiler

8. Repeat above with fresh water 3 times no need to wait but let pump rest in between.

Alternative drain option is to open steam wand and tilt machine but it doesn't empty as well and is slow.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> If descaling steam part of boiler I usually do the following:
> 
> 1. Empty boiler by removing end stop nut and use a bit of foil to guide the water into a basin. I'm going to fit drain valve next time.
> 
> 2. Fill tank with descale solution.
> 
> 3. Turn machine on let it fill the boiler, it will stop a few times to stop pump from overheating so just turn it off and on.
> 
> 4. Either open steam valve and disconnect level probe to let it overfill the boiler until liquid comes out of steam wand or just fill till it stops. Turn off.
> 
> 5. Let it sit for 15-20mins
> 
> 6. Swirl it a little
> 
> 7. Empty boiler
> 
> 8. Repeat above with fresh water 3 times no need to wait but let pump rest in between.
> 
> Alternative drain option is to open steam wand and tilt machine but it doesn't empty as well and is slow.


do you disconnect 2 way solenoid valve like on elektro's site


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## stevenh

You mean the grouphead solenoid? No I don't disconnect that one.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> You mean the grouphead solenoid? No I don't disconnect that one.


this one


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## stevenh

Yeh that's the boiler fill solenoid, disconnect if descaling just the hx.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Yeh that's the boiler fill solenoid, disconnect if descaling just the hx.


nice one cheers


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> You can descale the hx just by filling the tank with descale solution and just set it to dispense water through the group head and then the water tap. I also usually backflush with the descale solution too. Then leave it for 15 mins. Then run through rest of the solution and replace with tank of clean water and run through whole tank through grouphead and water tap and backflush a few times.
> 
> Good idea to disconnect the boiler fill solenoid to avoid solution getting into boiler if only doing hx.


hi steve do you turn the machine off in between cycles or leave it on? never done a hx before


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## stevenh

No need to turn machine off but keep an eye on it since you disconnected the boiler fill solenoid just in case it decides to want to fill boiler and activate pump...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Tokar, Eddie, can yous send me the date and serial number of your machines? Gianni from Elektros is curious and wants to check with the factory on why they are missing...


hi steve have you heard anything from Gianni? ....all models after 26/11/2012 were supposed to have them something about a silent system


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## stevenh

The Musica were supposed to have the gigleurs since the beginning... the silent version introduced the 0.8mm restrictor on the pump output to reduce the flow rate and quieten it down a bit, i think this is when they also introduced the 4s solenoid delay to give the pump some extra time to reach pressure.

Gianni mentioned some batches of machines didn't get them fitted for some reason, don't know why though...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> The Musica were supposed to have the gigleurs since the beginning... the silent version introduced the 0.8mm restrictor on the pump output to reduce the flow rate and quieten it down a bit, i think this is when they also introduced the 4s solenoid delay to give the pump some extra time to reach pressure.
> 
> Gianni mentioned some batches of machines didn't get them fitted for some reason, don't know why though...


so i can go ahead and order the gigleurs the ones on the oscar mod link?


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## stevenh

Yes you should order them... I also ordered the Teflon IMS showerscreen while I ordered mines, they really nice...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Yes you should order them... I also ordered the Teflon IMS showerscreen while I ordered mines, they really nice...


anything else you can think of i might need mate? save me paying on delivery in the future...

i cant seem to find a reasonable priced naked portafilter either might have to buy one from elektros


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## stevenh

You might want to get this, this is a known part to fail easily as it is plastic:

https://www.elektros.it/de/en/musica-tav-5/valvola-di-ritegno-co10.html

but i actually rebuilt mines to use this instead which is all metal but requires other bits for it to fit in:

https://www.elektros.it/de/en/coffee_machine_spare_parts/kit-valvola-di-ritegno-co10.html


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> You might want to get this, this is a known part to fail easily as it is plastic:
> 
> https://www.elektros.it/de/en/musica-tav-5/valvola-di-ritegno-co10.html
> 
> but i actually rebuilt mines to use this instead which is all metal but requires other bits for it to fit in:
> 
> https://www.elektros.it/de/en/coffee_machine_spare_parts/kit-valvola-di-ritegno-co10.html


do you use a bottomless portafilter mate? if so which one these are pretty expensive to buy


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## stevenh

yes i use a bottomless, i bought from a local supplier can't remember how much probably was around 30-35gbp... you can consider getting the one from Elektros...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> yes i use a bottomless, i bought from a local supplier can't remember how much probably was around 30-35gbp... you can consider getting the one from Elektros...


hi mate do you need anything from elektros?

gonna order quite a bit including portafilter and burrs for zenith 65e, so looks like i got to have courier option

will be ordering tomorrow


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## stevenh

Thanks I'll have a look when I get back tonight


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## stevenh

I don't think there's anything I need, thanks for the offer though.

You might also want to consider the portafilter pressure gauge if you don't already have one... also try asking Gianni to use DHL express instead of DHL economy for the courier option, not sure if he will charge extra... the express should arrive next day but the economy is 5 days.


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## stevenh

How you guys getting on? Manage to get the spare parts?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> How you guys getting on? Manage to get the spare parts?


not yet mate mine are in bristol at the moment, probably get them monday or tuesday should think


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> How you guys getting on? Manage to get the spare parts?


hi mate whats your shot routine.. do you use preinfusion .. when do you time start to time..does the heating light come on mid shot..


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## stevenh

I'm still playing around to see what works best with the new gigleurs... I turned off that 4s delay cause found it annoying I can achieve same result tapping the hot water before the shot.

I have pre infusion on atm and tend to time after I hear the pressure ramp.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> I'm still playing around to see what works best with the new gigleurs... I turned off that 4s delay cause found it annoying I can achieve same result tapping the hot water before the shot.
> 
> I have pre infusion on atm and tend to time after I hear the pressure ramp.


tapping the hot water? does the heater come on during the shot?


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## stevenh

Yeh tapping the hot water just to pressurise a bit since pump runs for a few seconds after solenoid closes. Same idea as the 4s delay but it means I control when the delay happens.

I've not looked to see if the heater came on or not... why you ask?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Yeh tapping the hot water just to pressurise a bit since pump runs for a few seconds after solenoid closes. Same idea as the 4s delay but it means I control when the delay happens.
> 
> I've not looked to see if the heater came on or not... why you ask?


im pretty sure mine comes on during the shot


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## eddie57

eddie57 said:


> im pretty sure mine comes on during the shot


another problem i seem to be getting is.. it starts dripping and you think looks to be a nice shot

then it starts gushing


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## stevenh

Heater coming on mid way will make little difference. The gusher will be a distribution problem, you'll see it better when you get the bottomless portafilter on. Have to make sure you tamp nice and level, don't need to press too hard... got some knock off Chinese tampers that seems to help a bit keeping things level and I see it all starting evenly and develops relatively consistently. I make 1-2 a day and get a really good one about once in 10 and the rest are ok with milk lol


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Heater coming on mid way will make little difference. The gusher will be a distribution problem, you'll see it better when you get the bottomless portafilter on. Have to make sure you tamp nice and level, don't need to press too hard... got some knock off Chinese tampers that seems to help a bit keeping things level and I see it all starting evenly and develops relatively consistently. I make 1-2 a day and get a really good one about once in 10 and the rest are ok with milk lol


i seem to get gushing more with deaf to be fair, it looks like im tamping level i always look at it to see if the tamper is sitting level in the pf


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## eddie57

and use a mini whisk to stir the coffee before tamping,then level it off ish with a cocktail stick


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## stevenh

Try tightening your grind slightly. I find a longer running shot is a bit more forgiving that one that runs too fast...

the new portafilter will tell you loads about your technique


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Try tightening your grind slightly. I find a longer running shot is a bit more forgiving that one that runs too fast...
> 
> the new portafilter will tell you loads about your technique


if i tighten much more i get this https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17490-Zenith-65E-Grind-Time&p=498189&highlight=zenith#post498189

scroll down to the bottom


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## stevenh

What basket you using and how much you dosing in?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> What basket you using and how much you dosing in?


la marzocco 15g basket dose 14g.......vst basket 18g dose 18g


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## stevenh

Try 15 or 16 in the LM basket... the vst 18 is good for 17-19


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Try 15 or 16 in the LM basket... the vst 18 is good for 17-19


yea i have tried 15g.. i'll wait now till i get the bits and bobs from elektros before i start changing things around

did you see my burrs did they look ok to you?


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## stevenh

The burrs looked ok but would need to feel them to see if it has dulled. Tried different beans? Some clumps more than others


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> The burrs looked ok but would need to feel them to see if it has dulled. Tried different beans? Some clumps more than others


yea noticed that im using rave.. colombia suarez.. signature blend and (Italian blend)... which is the only one that dont seem to clump very much


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## Tokar

Uh, i didn't check the thread for a while... you were busy...











> How you guys getting on? Manage to get the spare parts?


I am trying to arange with local distributor for NS to order gigleurs and magnetic float which stoped working also.

Stevenh do you think i should order something else besides those 2 spare parts you wrote to Eddie i put them on a list?


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## stevenh

Just the one way valve that i said was made of plastic...


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> Just the one way valve that i said was made of plastic...


Yeah i put that on a list already. Thanks


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## fierce5

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but have been a member onother forms for some time. I'm happy that this thread was revived as I recentlyacquired a Musica Lux and I have some observations and questions for you all.

Mine was manufactured in 2011 but it does seem to have the gigleurs as I onlyget couple of seconds of steam when I cool flush it before use. Mine isdefinitely not the silent model but I do have the 4 seconds solenoid delay.

Here are my questions and I'm hoping someone can help:



My pump seems to hum/weakens and losepressure if the heating element turns on mid shot. Some folks suggested thatthis could be an electricity problem as in unstable electric line in my houseand to test that they suggested using a Kill A Watt, which I have on order, tomonitor any voltage drop when the heating element turns on. Until I get theKill A Watt, can anyone think of any other reasons (aside from a bad pump) thatcan cause this?


Is there a way you can turn off the 4seconds delay when you start the shot?


Does anyone have any tricks to properlysteaming with the 4 hole tip? Pressure seems to drop significantly If I use thesteam at the lower end of the 1.1 to 1.4 range so I try to wait till it's at1.4 to steam


Finally, I'm considering either vinylwrapping or powder coating the panels of the machine in silver to match mySuper Jolly, any ideas how I can get the exact Mazzer silver paint color code?


Thanks


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## stevenh

Hi Fierce5, welcome to the forums!

I would still take the grouphead off at some point to double check and maybe give it a good clean too. Instructions are at the bottom of my first post on how to enable/disable the solenoid delay feature...

How much does your pressure drop when you open the steam valve? If it drops a lot only at the beginning it could mean your anti-vac valve was stuck and there was some trapped air. Let the pressure build up again and you'll be good to go. The pressure will drop the longer you steam but should be more than enough to steam a decent sized jug of milk...

Do you have a video showing your pump losing pressure mid-shot? i think this is quite unlikely to happen though...


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## fierce5

Thank you for the quick reply. It only loses pressure and hums if the heating element turns on. I will take a video today and post it here for information


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## Brewster

There is a way to switch off the delay, I can't remember how to do it, but I switched mine off somehow...


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## fierce5

I just tried today to switch of the delay but it didn't work. Here's what I did:

pressed the manual pour button till the kypad flashed

pressed the manual button again and then the 2 shot dosage button

pressed the manual pour button

nothing happened. What am I missing?


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## stevenh

When you get to that page, what happens when you press the manual pour button?


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## fierce5

stevenh said:


> When you get to that page, what happens when you press the manual pour button?


Nothing happens. The buttons doesn't light up or do anything else.


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## stevenh

but pressing the tap button (for preinfusion) lights up?


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## fierce5

stevenh said:


> but pressing the tap button (for preinfusion) lights up?


Yes, it does. I'm able to turn preinfusion on and off no problem. Are you able to make a video at some point showing how to descale the machine and how to turn off the 4s delay? I think both videos will be wildly successful.


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## stevenh

I'll try and find the video on youtube for the 4s delay. It might be that feature was added as a software option only in later versions. Will be quite a while before I do another descale but there are similar guides on youtube on descaling heat exchanger machines which may be useful...


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## fierce5

stevenh said:


> I'll try and find the video on youtube for the 4s delay. It might be that feature was added as a software option only in later versions. Will be quite a while before I do another descale but there are similar guides on youtube on descaling heat exchanger machines which may be useful...


Thanks, it could be a software in later versions. For descaling, I was under the impression that the Musica is different because I believe some cable should be disconnected from the boiler first and the boiler has to be emptied by leaning tilting the machine to the left. The process really sounds cumbersome that's why I was hoping for a video to see how it's done exactly. I haven't seen anything on youtube that addresses descaling the Musica or the Oscar 2. Do you know of a good video that I can follow or can I explain your descaling method? Thanks


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## eddie57

Hi Mate try this link https://www.elektros.it/gb/en/tips_tricks.html

scroll down to the bottom, there's a guide on how to descale the musica


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## fierce5

Here's the video of the pump weakening when the heating element turns on. Start watching at the 30 seconds mark.











I have a Kill A Watt on order to see if it's an electricity issue but if it's not, will it be the pump?


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## stevenh

Hmm I've not noticed that in mines before... put a portafilter pressure gauge on see if the pressure dips when the element comes on. Don't think anything to be concerned about unless the pressure dips significantly.


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## fierce5

stevenh said:


> Hmm I've not noticed that in mines before... put a portafilter pressure gauge on see if the pressure dips when the element comes on. Don't think anything to be concerned about unless the pressure dips significantly.


I believe the pressure does dip because the flow decreases. With the same grind setting and dosage I get less coffee in the cup when it makes the humming noise after the heat element is turned on than when the heating element is not on and no humming/weakening noise. I will wait for the kill a Watt (I should have it Friday) and see if it's an electricity issue.


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## fierce5

eddie57 said:


> Hi Mate try this link https://www.elektros.it/gb/en/tips_tricks.html
> 
> scroll down to the bottom, there's a guide on how to descale the musica


thank you! I'm aware of this link but the last paragraph, which I have quoted below, is confusing to me.

Before starting the procedure is ESSENTIAL to disconnect the connections of the 2-way solenoid, you have to disconnect one wire ( blue or red it does not matter ) OR , as well as to disconnect one of the two wires, it would be preferable to close the exit of the 2-way solenoid with a small piece of teflon tube as shown in the picture. This operation is necessary because if the 2-way solenoid valve has a small leak the mixture of water and citric acid that we are going to use for descaling may enter into the boiler. Using this method you will have to disconnect also 1 wire of the pressostat.

it sounds like aside from disconnecting one cable from the 2 way solenoid valve, I will also need to close the exit of the 2 way solenoid valve with a small piece of teflon tube and disconnect one wire from the pressurestat. Disconnecting the one wire from the pressurestat is easy but I'm not sure how to close the exit of the 2 way solenoid valve and they didn't include a picture.


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## eddie57

fierce5 said:


> thank you! I'm aware of this link but the last paragraph, which I have quoted below, is confusing to me.
> 
> Before starting the procedure is ESSENTIAL to disconnect the connections of the 2-way solenoid, you have to disconnect one wire ( blue or red it does not matter ) OR , as well as to disconnect one of the two wires, it would be preferable to close the exit of the 2-way solenoid with a small piece of teflon tube as shown in the picture. This operation is necessary because if the 2-way solenoid valve has a small leak the mixture of water and citric acid that we are going to use for descaling may enter into the boiler. Using this method you will have to disconnect also 1 wire of the pressostat.
> 
> it sounds like aside from disconnecting one cable from the 2 way solenoid valve, I will also need to close the exit of the 2 way solenoid valve with a small piece of teflon tube and disconnect one wire from the pressurestat. Disconnecting the one wire from the pressurestat is easy but I'm not sure how to close the exit of the 2 way solenoid valve and they didn't include a picture.


no just this one on the musica









they are showing you how to do both versions of the oscar as well

it is a little confusing i know


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## fierce5

eddie57 said:


> no just this one on the musica
> 
> View attachment 27435
> 
> 
> they are showing you how to do both versions of the oscar as well
> 
> it is a little confusing i know


Nice! Thank you very much. Now its much easier to descale myself.


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## stevenh

I found this video for the 4s delay:


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> I found this video for the 4s delay:


Nice one. I also want to turn off that delay.


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## fierce5

stevenh said:


> I found this video for the 4s delay:


Thats interesting. I'll try again today and see if I can get the manual pour button to light up like in the video.


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## stevenh

Eddie and Tokar, have yous managed to install the gigleurs?


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## stevenh

fierce5 said:


> Thats interesting. I'll try again today and see if I can get the manual pour button to light up like in the video.


If the light is on it means the delay is activated...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Eddie and Tokar, have yous managed to install the gigleurs?


Yea Mate don't know if its making any difference tho


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## stevenh

Hmm shouldn't need to really do cooling flushes anymore as the temp should be quite stable now... even set to max pressure I get no more than 1 sec of steam if been idle for a while and that has solved various other issues for me... Before the gigleur change if you did a cooling flush because the h/x is a mixer design, you will have replaced all the circulating hot water in the return pipe with fresh cooler water so when you brew straight after the shot will be at a much lower temperature than you want... With the gigleurs, it solves 2 problems, firstly removes the need for long cooling flushes and secondly as the return pipe gigleur is slightly smaller, more water is forced through the h/x making a hotter mixture. It is very important that they were installed correctly, the gold one should be installed to the bottom of the grouphead where the return pipe connects...


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## eddie57

Yea that's where i put it, came with photograph of where to put them


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## eddie57

Would that valve have anything to do with it?


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## stevenh

Oh i didn't get a photo with mines lol

I followed the YouTube vid for the oscar taking note of the big btw this video is wrong labels


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## stevenh

Do you still need to flush? What's your pressure set to?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Do you still need to flush? What's your pressure set to?


Yea here's a video


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## stevenh

It says video not available...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> It says video not available...


Try again steve


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## stevenh

Is pre infusion on?


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Is pre infusion on?


Yes mate


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## eddie57

eddie57 said:


> Yes mate


I Think


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## stevenh

Couldn't hear it properly but if pump stopped briefly for the preinfusion it ends up letting some of the water in the pipe boil as no pump pressure pushing fresh water in to cool it. What you had is fine though as before it would've spurted a lot more steam and take several more seconds for steady flow...

Also I think the pipes not quite up to pressure yet, probably because you've been flushing too much, do the backflush first then try a flush it should be quicker...

also remember the more you flush the more inaccurate the volumetric dosing will be... for it to be accurate it needs to start from a known point so I prefer to always get my pipes up to pressure first before brewing


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Couldn't hear it properly but if pump stopped briefly for the preinfusion it ends up letting some of the water in the pipe boil as no pump pressure pushing fresh water in to cool it. What you had is fine though as before it would've spurted a lot more steam and take several more seconds for steady flow...
> 
> Also I think the pipes not quite up to pressure yet, probably because you've been flushing too much, do the backflush first then try a flush it should be quicker...
> 
> also remember the more you flush the more inaccurate the volumetric dosing will be... for it to be accurate it needs to start from a known point so I prefer to always get my pipes up to pressure first before brewing


What's your routine for doing that mate?


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## stevenh

I've set my single shot button to do roughly 1.5s flush but only really use it if machine been idle for more than half hour... then before I brew I tap the hot water button a few times until I hear the pitch change to know it's at max pressure then I brew. Because I do the pressure build up myself I turn off the annoying 4s delay which I think was to try and accomplish the same thing except when ppl flush too much the 4s isn't long enough to fully build up the pressure again. That I think is due to the use of the 0.8mm gigleur for the silent version where the flow is reduced


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## stevenh

That's what my pipes looks like now as well with the metal one way valve... had to arrange things that way as didn't want to touch the boiler connection at the time and the T would've been too close to the chassis to turn into position...


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Couldn't hear it properly but if pump stopped briefly for the preinfusion it ends up letting some of the water in the pipe boil as no pump pressure pushing fresh water in to cool it. What you had is fine though as before it would've spurted a lot more steam and take several more seconds for steady flow...
> 
> Also I think the pipes not quite up to pressure yet, probably because you've been flushing too much, do the backflush first then try a flush it should be quicker...
> 
> also remember the more you flush the more inaccurate the volumetric dosing will be... for it to be accurate it needs to start from a known point so I prefer to always get my pipes up to pressure first before brewing


When you say backflush do you mean a proper backflush like with cafiza 5 or 6 times?


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## stevenh

No need to put in the cafiza just a single backflush with the blanking disc plain water to make sure the pressure is up. Alternative is to run the hot water tap a few times. What you are trying to achieve is get to the point where pump switches off after the pitch has changed with max pressure in the pipes


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> No need to put in the cafiza just a single backflush with the blanking disc plain water to make sure the pressure is up. Alternative is to run the hot water tap a few times. What you are trying to achieve is get to the point where pump switches off after the pitch has changed with max pressure in the pipes


I turned the prefusion off, you can flush it better that way i think, what pressure do you have at the pf? mine is just touching 8 bar


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## stevenh

8 is very low, default should be 10 but I sent mines to just over 9 yesterday but not managed to try out yet as my order of beans is a few days late


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## eddie57

Hi, mate, could it be because the other bar pressure is 1.25?


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## eddie57

eddie57 said:


> Hi, mate, could it be because the other bar pressure is 1.25?


does the musica have an opv valve if so where is it?


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## stevenh

No they are separate, the opv setting probably came loose, just need to tighten it a little to increase the pressure.


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## stevenh

It's the brass valve at the bottom of the pic I posted above... turn the part that has the plastic tube connected to it going back to the pump inlet.


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## eddie57

@stevenh

What's your flow rate mate?

I'm getting 250 to 300 ml in 20 seconds that seems to be a bit high no?


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## stevenh

Yeh that's higher than the pump rated flow rate lol

Machine fully up to temp, 2 runs on hot water tap, 2nd run was about 140ml in 20s.

Followed by 20s from group head about 240ml in 20s


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Yeh that's higher than the pump rated flow rate lol
> 
> Machine fully up to temp, 2 runs on hot water tap, 2nd run was about 140ml in 20s.
> 
> Followed by 20s from group head about 240ml in 20s


 How are you getting on since you dropped down to 9 bar?


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## stevenh

Much better now but I also changed my overall technique... I grind into a separate container and weigh, then pour into portafilter and tap. Use a Chinese knock off of an OCD distribution tool, don't think that great anyway, then use a Chinese knock off of a puck style tamper. Result is when viewing through naked portafilter it's all relatively even and taste is ok too, still adjusting grind for beans as extraction a bit on the long side but these were new single origin from rave


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Much better now but I also changed my overall technique... I grind into a separate container and weigh, then pour into portafilter and tap. Use a Chinese knock off of an OCD distribution tool, don't think that great anyway, then use a Chinese knock off of a puck style tamper. Result is when viewing through naked portafilter it's all relatively even and taste is ok too, still adjusting grind for beans as extraction a bit on the long side but these were new single origin from rave


Nice, going to do some experiments because the flow rate is changing all the time

it wasn't as much as i originally thought tho jug was way out, started to weight output instead


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## stevenh

Cool, as noted before the output will only be consistent if you make sure the pipes are all up to pressure for same start point each time...


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## Tokar

stevenh said:


> Eddie and Tokar, have yous managed to install the gigleurs?


Not yet. I am waiting for local NS distributor to get the parts for me.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Cool, as noted before the output will only be consistent if you make sure the pipes are all up to pressure for same start point each time...


hi mate, do you flush before you hit the hot water tap or hot water tap then flush?


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## stevenh

Flush then hot water tap... the following options will give you consistent results with the volumetrics:

1. Hot water tap on/off, wait pump to stop and listen out for pitch of pump, need to ensure it reaches max pressure before going off.

2. Flush a preset amount (using single shot button, I have this for just over 1s)

3. Brew with double shot button.

Alternatively:

1. Flush as much as you like

2. Do the hot water tap routine as above

3. Brew

First option starts brewing at slightly lower pressure allowing a soft preinfusion ramp.


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## eddie57

stevenh said:


> Flush then hot water tap... the following options will give you consistent results with the volumetrics:
> 
> 1. Hot water tap on/off, wait pump to stop and listen out for pitch of pump, need to ensure it reaches max pressure before going off.
> 
> 2. Flush a preset amount (using single shot button, I have this for just over 1s)
> 
> 3. Brew with double shot button.
> 
> Alternatively:
> 
> 1. Flush as much as you like
> 
> 2. Do the hot water tap routine as above
> 
> 3. Brew
> 
> First option starts brewing at slightly lower pressure allowing a soft preinfusion ramp.


Nice one,

why do you use the single shot button instead of the manual one, is there a reason for it?

When you turn the hot water tap on, do you wait for free flowing water instead of all the spitting and spluttering?

or do you just try to listen for the pitch of the pump?


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## stevenh

I just listen for the pitch of the pump. I used the single shot button to flush a know amount to keep things consistent. If you flush too long and don't redo the tap routine then it will take a long time to build up pressure and the volumetrics will be way off...


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## eddie57

eddie57 said:


> Nice one,
> 
> why do you use the single shot button instead of the manual one, is there a reason for it?
> 
> When you turn the hot water tap on, do you wait for free flowing water instead of all the spitting and spluttering?
> 
> or do you just try to listen for the pitch of the pump?


Have made 3 cups so far today, went with the second option, flushed 5ounces each time but still had the 4s delay and preinfusion,

got to within a ml or so of 30ml each time, can't be bad


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## stevenh

Yup once you start from a known point the volumetrics are pretty much bang on







I don't bother with the preinfusion anymore now, as long as I don't mess up on my distribution and tamping it's all quite even.


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## stevenh

One other point is that the machine won't really be fully up to temperature unless you give it about an hour... I usually have mines on an electronic timer but this morning had to get up a bit earlier than normal and the coffee I made wasn't great as the grouphead wasn't quite up to temperature after just 30mins...


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## eddie57

Haven't noticed that to be honest missus always makes a cuppa first thing.. so it's always on for about an hour before I make a cup


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## stevenh

Its been a while but thought I'd update this page a little with latest experience of faulty main board...

Symptoms rapidly gets worse over course of few days:

1. Brewing cuts off prematurely shortly after pressure reached, or during back flushes.
2. When powering on lights alternate between no water and element on.
3. When powering on lights briefly flash and machine turns off.

The component that usually goes bad is the electrolytic capacitor next to the transformer (top left on old style board and bottom left next to keypad cable on new style board). The part is a 35V 470uF capacitor, if you look at the top and it is not perfectly flat and has slight bulge it is bad, I also checked with ESR meter in circuit, if good it should read something like 0.2 Ohms or less (note this is ESR, not regular resistance measurement).
If it is not that and you need to replace the board, old style boards no longer available and I was told that you would need to replace both main board and keypad if going from old to new style.
Hope that helps other ppl in similar situation.

This is a cheap repair especially if you are familiar with board repairs but in my case I was too lazy to dig out the soldering iron so just got a local electronic repair shop to replace the cap for a small tip 

Hope this helps someone.


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## HafManHafAmazing

stevenh said:


> I'm still playing around to see what works best with the new gigleurs... I turned off that 4s delay cause found it annoying I can achieve same result tapping the hot water before the shot.
> 
> I have pre infusion on atm and tend to time after I hear the pressure ramp.


 How did you turn off the 4s delay? I'd like to do this myself, but instructions are not in the manual. 
thanks,


----------

