# Expobar Office Leva. HX or DB PID OMG?



## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

Hello

Since I'm awaiting the arrival of my beautiful Mazzer Mini from Jason (1 day and counting), I thought I'd ask a few questions, seeing as I've decided what machine I'm going to pip for. I must add that my decision was set in concrete only after I watched Expobarista's vid with his wooden handles. I L.O.V.E. wooden handles, and it seems that you can buy these things from BB or wherever (like here! OOOO). Bling.









Anywho,

Just wondered, since I am going to be 100% home tasty and not any more than 3-4 people at any one time ever (which in itself will be rare, its just me and Mrs most of the time), what the decision should be - go for the HX at £900ish new, or wait a bit longer still and get the Dual Boiler, PID'd megawonder at circa £1200ish new? I am totally unaware of the price second hand, and as such am reluctant to nail a wanted poster to the mast yet.

I had considered the Bezzera BZ10, but having read a bit more about E61 etc, I feel that perhaps the design of the Brewtus is a bit more robust than that of the BZ10. Is the PID necessary if you have the E61 grouphead?

Thoughts?

G


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Brewtus don't come up second hand very often on here , which is probably a testament to how much their owners love them.

go and try some machines would be my advice, . Your in in edinburgh?


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah I'm just over the water. I have Machina Espresso up here which is good, I will pay them a visit. But in terms of the few q's above, what are your thoughts, oh Oracle?

G


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

The DB would be my choice however descaling the brew boiler can be a bit of a PITA this shouldn't be as big a problem if you use a low TDS water such as Ashbeck but it should be something you take into consideration.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You can get the DB for 1060 or something, Coffee Omega or coffeebean (forum sponsors) were doing a deal.

I had an HX Oscar and now have a DB Brewtus and I'm more confident of hitting the rights temps with the DB. Some HXs can need fairly large cooling flushes which can be a drain on the tank.

DB PID has shiny lights too, if you get the HX you'll always be thinking of the shiny lights....it would be worth saving a little extra IMO.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

CoffeeJohnny said:


> The DB would be my choice however descaling the brew boiler can be a bit of a PITA this shouldn't be as big a problem if you use a low TDS water such as Ashbeck but it should be something you take into consideration.


We have good Scottish water!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I'd say get the DB PID, and buy it new so that you know it isn't scaled up.

Once you find the temperature you like it'll stay there all day. No faffing about with cooling flush and so on.


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

Ashbeck...so I take it Evian or other "higher calibre" waters are unnecessary?


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

Expobarista said:


> I'd say get the DB PID, and buy it new so that you know it isn't scaled up.
> 
> Once you find the temperature you like it'll stay there all day. No faffing about with cooling flush and so on.


Ah Expobarista, the man himself. Why do you love an Expobar?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

frasermade said:


> Ashbeck...so I take it Evian or other "higher calibre" waters are unnecessary?


I've read that Scottish tap water is fine


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Evian is one of the worst so yes definitely unnecessary I have a post showing the labels of Volvic and Ashbeck the two I prefer and widely regarded as two of the best also Waitrose own is good however I haven't used it personally. It is between Waitrose own and Ashbeck Tescos own for the most machine friendly and I think volvic tastes better



frasermade said:


> Ashbeck...so I take it Evian or other "higher calibre" waters are unnecessary?


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

jeebsy said:


> You can get the DB for 1060 or something, Coffee Omega or coffeebean (forum sponsors) were doing a deal.
> 
> Offer always on for Forum members! £1050 all in.....
> 
> Andy


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

scroll through the thread which water and you can see the labels at least for vilvic and ashbeck


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

coffeebean said:


> jeebsy said:
> 
> 
> > You can get the DB for 1060 or something, Coffee Omega or coffeebean (forum sponsors) were doing a deal.
> ...


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Have just gone through the same process which has taken me months







I couldn't make my mind up HX / DB , Rocket, Expobar, etc etc









I did seriously consider the Brewtus being stainless steel body and chassis plus I did like the temperature control of the PID but I didn't think we have enough milky coffee's to warrant a double boiler and didn't fancy the thought of the water going stagnant in the steam boiler so went for a HX.

At the end of the day you need to do your research and make your choice


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Wouldn't swap my brewtus for any HX machine!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

emin-j said:


> and didn't fancy the thought of the water going stagnant in the steam boiler so went for a HX.


I used to worry about this when leaving the machine for a few weeks, but I think the combination of high temperature (which kills bugs) and lack of exposure to the air means it takes a very long time to go funny tasting.

I have the Expobar Office Leva, its a great machine, feels like it will last forever, but its very 'functional' looking. You wont fall in love with it. If I could spare the money my next machine would definitely have to be one chosen for its looks as well as its functionality.


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> ...but its very 'functional' looking. You wont fall in love with it.....


This is precisely the reason I DO love it. I think these boxes with the tiny bit of grouphead sticking out are fugly. I love the chrome box with levers and switches and gauges and lights. The Brewty is the one for me. The BZ10 is similarly beautiful but the function of the Brewtus DB/PID/E61 seems to have won me over.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You won't regret a Brewtus.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

I have had several goes on my mates expo. The pid is excellent on the brew side, i just dont like the steaming on it compared to my Hx. Probably that one holed tip.


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

glevum said:


> I have had several goes on my mates expo. The pid is excellent on the brew side, i just dont like the steaming on it compared to my Hx. Probably that one holed tip.


The steam on the hx is better than the standalone in the db?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Boiler tends yo be bigger on the hx machines


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Boiler tends yo be bigger on the hx machines


So the dedicated boiler is good for what then, just temp stability?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The expo makes amazing microfoam with the 1 hole tip , it takes a little while so what.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

So the 1 hole expo tip better than the optional 2 hole?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I've posted this before... I've tried 1,2 and 3 hole tips on the Expo. The 1 hole gives a false impression that the machine lacks steam power because the tip restricts the flow. That is why when you shut the valve it doesn't stop immediately.

Stick a 2 or 3 hole on and you realise the machine has as much power as you need.

I agree with Gary that the one hole produces great microcosm, and itvis very forgiving.

I use a 3 hole. It is not forgiving at all, but after lots of practice I can produce equally good results but much more quickly. Funnily enough, I produce the best at 6am when I'm still half asleep and making my first coffee


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I am going through a similar decision Gordon but I fancy a Brewtus or the rocket Giotto V2, I'm going to go to Machina in a week or two. They give 2 years warranty compared to the forum price, that's only one year, I'd prefer to pay extra £50 for 2 years cover


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

frasermade said:


> So the dedicated boiler is good for what then, just temp stability?


I have very little experience with either HX or DB and can only repeat what I have learned from the forums and youtube , one video on youtube comparing HX/DB basically goes on to say of the HX can produce a more complex flavour shot of espresso due to the slight variation in temperature whilst pulling the shot as certain flavours are released at varying temperatures whereas the DB machines have a pre set temperature and produce an excellent shot but maybe slightly less discernible flavours.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Jason1wood said:


> I am going through a similar decision Gordon but I fancy a Brewtus or the rocket Giotto V2, I'm going to go to Machina in a week or two. They give 2 years warranty compared to the forum price, that's only one year, I'd prefer to pay extra £50 for 2 years cover


2 great choices


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

Brewtus DB and Mazzer Mini - a match made in mid-range espresso heaven?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

You'll get great coffee out of that but as coffeechap said to me 'get a Royal and the Brewtus will really sing'


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

frasermade said:


> This is precisely the reason I DO love it. I think these boxes with the tiny bit of grouphead sticking out are fugly. I love the chrome box with levers and switches and gauges and lights. The Brewty is the one for me. The BZ10 is similarly beautiful but the function of the Brewtus DB/PID/E61 seems to have won me over.


I'm actually confusing machines... I have the Office Pulsar, the Leva is much better looking


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

frasermade said:


> coffeebean said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Andy
> ...


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

coffeebean said:


> jeebsy said:
> 
> 
> > You can get the DB for 1060 or something, Coffee Omega or coffeebean (forum sponsors) were doing a deal.
> ...


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