# EK43s buying advice - Turkish or “coffee burrs” for espresso/v60/cafetière?



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Hi,

I'm trying to buy a new white EK43s for home espresso/v60/cafetière use. Can you use the EK43 Turkish burrs for v60 and cafetière, trying to work out what to do?

Slight complication as I ordered and paid for a "coffee burrs" one from an established retailer as they said it was in stock, turns out they only have EK43s with Turkish burrs factory fitted. Would be a 10-12 week wait for EK43s with factory fitted "coffee burrs" 🤔

They offered to swap them out for "coffee burrs" but means breaking the box seal. Worth saying OK if you set the zero and use an alignment tool, or ask for a refund and order from another retailer instead with the "coffee burrs"?


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## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

If it were me, I'd ask for a refund and order from another retailer or, if you're happy to take it apart yourself (which you are going to have to do, eventually, to clean the thing), ask them to send the coffee burrs to you to fit with a promise from you to pack and return the Turkish burrs (perhaps against a deposit for the burrs). Win win (you have peace of mind and they have a sale).


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Talk to Frank at Titus grinding, he'll tell you what's what and he can probably get it to you quicker than most too... SSP low uniformity burrs I think is probably what he'd say but check


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Thanks for the replies.

Also got some helpful feedback from @coffeechap and @Rhys as well. Looks like the Turkish ones are good from espresso to v60/Chemex but French press would be on the coarsest it could go.

@AJP80 - That was my first thought as well, not keen on introducing another variable or point of failure. I was expecting to have a go at aligning it down the road with the tool plus shims etc.

@Kannan - That might have to be phase two! 😂 💰


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Why not buy direct from Frank, hope you sort it. I would be spitting fire🔥🤔😁


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Jony - His stuff looks lovely and nicely made, but it's like £500 for an alignment tool and burr carrier as aftermarket parts. I would be surprised if his customised EK43s were cheaper than the regular retail ones with no mods.

Also had to promise my wife a few trips after lockdown to be fair, anymore is likely to require another rebalancing... 🙈


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

I got mine last week from Frank - it's a work of art and makes half decent coffee too


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Kannan said:


> I got mine last week from Frank - it's a work of art and makes half decent coffee too


 Ah.. I've seen pics of that setup. Don't think Franks is struck on Decents lol Bet it's a good combo though :good:

Looks like yours has the adjustable dial on the front with the pull-pin thing that I mentioned to N_M. It's a good idea and nicely done. Certainly a gorgeous grinder and could persuade me to go back to EK's if I ever get fed up with my Versalab.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Rhys said:


> Don't think Franks is struck on Decents


 No lol he thinks they are super noisy... each to their own


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Jony - His stuff looks lovely and nicely made, but it's like £500 for an alignment tool and burr carrier as aftermarket parts. I would be surprised if his customised EK43s were cheaper than the regular retail ones with no mods.
> 
> Also had to promise my wife a few trips after lockdown to be fair, anymore is likely to require another rebalancing... 🙈


 I know the price's 🤔of course I do.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Spoke to the retailer, they are shipping me the white EK43s with factory fitted Turkish burrs for no extra cost.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Was the alignment price got me, EK is cheap from him, its those bloody extras you don't need but want 😍😂


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Northern_Monkey said:


> trying to buy a new white EK43s for home espresso/v60/cafetière use. Can you use the EK43 Turkish burrs for v60 and cafetière, trying to work out what to do?


 Short answer - yes. Bought an EK back in 2014 and went for original coffee burrs - mistake. Couldn't grind fine enough with lighter roasts. Fitted Turkish burrs - problem solved. Was worried I would loose functionality at the coarse setting. Not so. Turkish burrs can grind perfectly for Chemex which requires a more coarse grind than V60 as the papers are thicker. Cafetiere is also no problem.

Without any fanfare, Mahlkonig revised the original coffee burrs fitted to EKs around 2016. Mk II coffee burrs were somewhere, in terms of aggression, between the original burrs and Turkish burrs making it possible to grind espresso using lighter beans. As far as I am aware, Mahlkonig have not revised burr geometry for burrs fitted since the introduction of Mk IIs. So, coffee burrs are, generally, fine. You might need to pay more attention to calibration and still find, with some lighter roasts, you are close to the finest setting but as long as this produces the result in the cup you want, it isn't a problem. To get the absolute best out of any EK or EKs, it's a good idea to check throw out and bite the bullet and fit one of Frank's fine tolerance burr carriers.


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

I've had a little look around at EK43S but where do people actually buy them from? From what I can see they're not that commonly sold yet very highly regarded.

I love the custom stuff, but not much info on the Titus site.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

B-Roadie said:


> but not much info on the Titus site


 Email frank he's pretty responsive and helpful in that Germanic way  and actually I think his prices are more than fair for what he does


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Received the largest box ever in the post. Was not expecting it to come on it's own pallet. Quite excited about trying it out in the morning on the next coffee run after moving some kitchen bits about.

Early feedback it is very heavy, didn't realise the finish isn't completely smooth and has a rougher cast texture underneath it. Looks good just different than I was expecting.

My wife thinks I make better coffee than mock up models and it is a lot larger than she was anticipating! Also pointed out that I have a very lovely indulgent wife and owe her a larger kitchen at some point in the future...


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Northern_Monkey said:


> Received the largest box ever in the post. Was not expecting it to come on it's own pallet. Quite excited about trying it out in the morning on the next coffee run after moving some kitchen bits about.
> 
> Early feedback it is very heavy, didn't realise the finish isn't completely smooth and has a rougher cast texture underneath it. Looks good just different than I was expecting.
> 
> My wife thinks I make better coffee than mock up models and it is a lot larger than she was anticipating! Also pointed out that I have a very lovely indulgent wife and owe her a larger kitchen at some point in the future...


 Awesome! Congrats


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

Makes me want one 😅


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I will take your ZM for £675


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Congrats! The only regret I've got is I got a black one instead of white


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Cheers guys. Had a few practice fruity pour overs to test it out in the end. Tasting really nice so far, blackberry was a bit stronger but early days or could just be in my head...

A bit scary to use though, it's 4x more powerful than my pillar drill and super fast. The thwacker makes up for it though, surprisingly fun for clearing the chute! 😂


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

PPapa said:


> Congrats! The only regret I've got is I got a black one instead of white


 That is a shame, I thought it was much easier having almost binary options! Glad you like the coffee though. ????


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## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

Northern_Monkey said:


> That is a shame, I thought it was much easier having almost binary options! Glad you like the coffee though. 👍


 I flipped a coin and ended up getting one in black. I occasionally wonder if I should have gone white but I console myself that if I had then I'd be having the same thoughts in reverse.


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## cracked_bean (Apr 13, 2014)

I skimmed through the post but couldn't see it... why the mock up?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## B-Roadie (Feb 29, 2016)

Fez said:


> Makes me want one 😅


 Ditto.

Congrats @Northern_Monkey It looks awesome!

I'll get the itch to upgrade my Mignon some day. I'm arguably under grindered vs my machine at present.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

cracked_bean said:


> I skimmed through the post but couldn't see it... why the mock up?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It was a reference to a post in thIs thread, just a bit of fun and attempt to see if it would fit in the kitchen or be a bridge too far in terms of my other half's tolerance to my kit based hobbies. I was also very bored one lockdown lunchtime... 😉

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/50629-what-did-you-last-make-pics-required/?do=embed


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Northern_Monkey said:


> That is a shame, I thought it was much easier having almost binary options! Glad you like the coffee though.


I would have wanted an orange one if I bought a white one. Was just cheeky!

Glad you enjoy it, looking forward to read your findings once you dip into espresso with it.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Very nice, congrats! I found my coffee intake went up when I got my EK. They grind so damn fast, you can't help but feed 'em :classic_biggrin:


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Rhys said:


> Very nice, congrats! I found my coffee intake went up when I got my EK. They grind so damn fast, you can't help but feed 'em :classic_biggrin:


 Aldi beans then.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Tried it out for espresso, Americano and cappuccino this morning.

Using Origin Stronghold beans as that was what I had open, definitely medium dark chocolate and sugar more traditional roast. Maybe fudge richness if you try really hard.

Upped my dose in by 0.5g to 16.5g as a bit more retention than the Niche. Used 2.5 on the EK dial so pretty fine.

Paddle on the Mara allowed a 2 bar preinfusion to first drip and then a gentle ramp up to full pressure. Shot times not that different to the Niche, but upped it to 40g out so 2.4:1 rather than 2:1. Super dry pucks that were easy to knock out.

Smaller amount of crema, still had a nice pleasant thick texture. Punchier than before, sweeter, tasted cleaner in an odd way or had less fines. With oat milk it was more acidic, which tasted really nice and made it a bit less like "coffee coffee".

So far it is looking quite promising, slightly weird in a I wasn't expecting that sense but it's really growing on me 👍


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Jony said:


> Aldi beans then.


 Never used Aldi.. Costa maybe at a push :classic_biggrin:


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## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

So is there a consensus on which burrs to get? I'm completely confused as I've got two different recommendations from two different suppliers. Use case is pourover, espresso (via a la pav, as I like to make things difficult) and occasional chemex or (small, i.e. <=1L) batch brew. It's the batch I'm worried about with turkish burrs, but then another shop suggested they really struggle with espresso on the coffee burrs. I'm completely lost here!


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@tambu - I think the consensus was go for the Turkish if you mainly drink espresso as it still works for brew. Looks like the EK43S are aligned a bit better, I haven't had to faff about with the one I bough recently with Turkish burrs.

Mine has gone from 4.5 down to 0.75 (typically 4-2) on the dial for espresso based on beans and dosing. You would have a much tighter range for espresso dialling with the brew burrs, which can be a bit tricky or messier.

I can do 800ml V60s no problem without being at max coarseness, but for a 1l pour over would definitely be on the coarsest setting.


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## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

I really mostly do brew, so I'm none the wiser. I naively thought the EK with coffee burrs would be fine for espresso without having to mess around with it (i.e. re-align it out the box etc), but it seems a bit messy (as ever) and the fact there's not much of a consensus adds to my general cynicism. Maybe I should just get a Niche, seems like everybody else has one 😂


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## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

Hi tambu, I got an EK43S in March with brew burrs for a similar use pattern to you - mainly V60 plus a couple of espressos/ caps a day. I am now using a La Pavoni for espresso/ caps.

I don't regret going with brew burrs. The pour over is out of this world good. I've never had anything like it, even at cafes using EKs. For espresso, it's ok, by which I mean I can dial it in and it tastes excellent but I have very little "resolution" when making adjustments. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem choking the La Pav, it's just that adjustments need micro turns of the dial (fractions of an increment). On the La Pav, that's not a problem, as I can control flow, so if I overshoot an adjustment, it's relatively easy to save a shot.

In case it's helpful, here are my typical grind settings:

Espresso - 0.6 (13gram dose on La Pav for 35s/30g shot of Square Mile (Sweet Shop))

Pourover (V60) - 6.5 - 7.5 for something fruity (e.g. a Kenyan or Ethiopian or something "rare" from Colonna)

- 9 - 12 for something nutty (but still lightish) e.g. from SquareMile or Colonna.

*Nb *I haven't had to align my burrs, although I am tempted by the Titus pre-breaker/ augur mod to sweep up more bean fragments


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

@tambu Bought my first EK43 in 2014 and after much thought, went for the coffee burrs. Wrong decision - OK for medium plus roasts but couldn't grind fine enough for lighter. Fitted a set of Turkish and that sorted the lighter roasts whilst still retaining the ability to grind very coarse for Chemex. A year or so after I bought my EK, Mahlkonig reprofiled the coffee burrs without any press release. Mark II coffee burrs were slightly more aggressive than Mark I's but not as aggressive as the Turkish - kind of in between. Made grinding for lighter roasts possible. Also around this time, EK owners played around with barista technique to get the best out of the grinder. From this, stirring the grinds in the portafilter and using a dosing funnel was found to help in terms of consistency. In the beginning of the EK odyssey, owners encountered all sorts of quirks - tripod pour being one. It is also critical that the burrs be properly adjusted - easy to do.

All new EKs and EKSs are fitted with Mark II coffee burr sets. There has been, as mentioned above, talk of poor alignment. Scott Rao, for example, has mentioned his experience of poor alignment with EKs having used many EKs - into three figures which, personally, I find strange. I don't have experience of that many EKs - around ten which I've checked for alignment and none had significant problems.

To sum up, if you decide to go for an EK or EKS, Turkish burrs will grind effortlessly for espresso and will be fine for pour over. Mark II coffee burrs will give you less wiggle room. At the moment, I am grinding at 0.5 for some beans that are six weeks from roast date (do like to slum it at times). Recommend reading the very long thread I started back in 2014 which has tons of input from some very knowledgable members sadly most of whom have dropped off the forum.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

AJP80 said:


> In case it's helpful, here are my typical grind settings:
> 
> Espresso - 0.6 (13gram dose on La Pav for 35s/30g shot of Square Mike (Sweet Shop))
> 
> ...


 For Chemex, my settings are 15 -17 depending on the bean.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@tambu - Also better to decide now rather than having buyers remorse after, it's about a £50-100 price difference between a new coffee burr or Turkish EK when bundled in a grinder.

But a set of brand new OEM Turkish are about £400 separately. I think even if you didn't like the Turkish burrs it would be easier to then sell them on to fund a coffee burr set than to go the other way round.


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## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks for the replies all. I did have a nosy around a few threads @The Systemic Kid and I couldn't come to many firm conclusions. Seems like @Xpenno (who had some recent-ish comments on his blog) decided that you lost something in brewing when you went for Turkish burrs over coffee burrs, but at the end of the day we're talking fairly minor differences I should think. My most common usage is a pourover or batch brew (but only small, ~1L), so pretty much everything points to coffee burrs, but as I can't have a separate grinder for my occasional espresso usage I'm wondering where to take the trade off: (maybe) sacrifice a little bit of brew flexibility / quality, but be able to dial in a wide range of beans quite tightly for the weekend espresso; or guarantee a good grind for daily batch but live with the fact I might struggle a bit with espresso. I've got a La Pav as well, so the experience of @AJP80 with coffee burrs is reassuring in that respect.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Didn't mention the 'loss of some flavour debate' in my previous post as it would have been too long. As far as I am aware - this is more apocryphal than fact, i.e. someone claims something and suddenly it becomes accepted. There aren't any good trials - blind tasting to substantiate these claims. When deciding on which SSP burr set to get for my second EK, I read on some retailer's website that the SSP burrs they sold were better, taste-wise, for espresso than SSP's other offering. This amused me as it was based on what evidence I wondered. The coffee I produce - espresso and pour over on an EKS with SSP burrs is not really any different to my previous EK with Turkish burrs. Both produce excellent coffee.

If you are predominantly going for pour over - coffee burrs will be excellent. I brew Chemex every morning on mine. You will be able to produce excellent ekspresso as well with the emphasis on the 'k' as ekspresso has its own unique dna quite unlike espresso produced via other grinders.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Didn't @MWJB have some thoughts on this topic some time ago or is my brain addled again?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Didn't @MWJB have some thoughts on this topic some time ago or is my brain addled again?


 Not me, I'm afraid.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I'll add my experience - I have an EK with the newer Mk2 coffee burrs and although grinding for espresso is usually towards the minimum setting (often 0.5 as others have said), I have never had a coffee that couldn't be ground fine enough to make espresso.


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## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

This is all really useful, thanks - based on the above, I can pretty much toss a coin. Guarantee a grind size for batch with coffee burrs and most unlikely I'll hit problems with espresso, or on the flip side grind espresso with turkish burrs and I'll most likely still get coarse enough for a 1L batch brew.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

When I fitted Turkish burrs, my espresso setting went from zero to 2.5 - 3.0 but you lose some flexibility at the other end, i.e. for pour over. With coffee burrs, you will have more flexibility for brewed/pour over. Wouldn't worry about espresso - have just made two espressos with the setting on 0.3, i.e. close to zero. Grinder was quite happy with that.


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## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

The supplier I'm talking to is sticking to a Turkish burr recommendation as they do a small batch brew with it and say it's OK (albeit right on the limits), but when they do decaf with coffee burrs in the shop it pours v quickly. Personally, I don't drink decaf so I'm not too stressed about being able to go finer for it, but they do seem to suggest they struggle with non-decaf too. Presumably shops tend not to want to pour longer/quicker / mess with dose / freeze beans / use 6bar to get around some of these problems, so from their point of view I can see that Turkish makes more sense. Given the above posts here, I'll probably go coffee burrs despite their recommendation, and not least because for me this is an exercise in answering the question "will an EK43 produce new / interesting / different / better brewed coffee, while also allowing me to quit hand-grinding for espresso" and I suspect I won't feel like I've answered it with Turkish burrs 🤷‍♂️


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## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

Tambu, I don't want to spook you, but given the reports of alignment issues on the EK, I would feel (and felt when I bought my EK43S) more comfortable going with a supplier not recommending Turkish burrs for mainly brew with the odd espresso. I went with Machina in Edinburgh for that reason. I didn't want them to say, "I told you so", if I had problem grinding fine enough (for whatever difference that would have made).

I don't know if it's possible or if indeed it's standard practice for EKs but it might be worth seeing if you can get your grinder bench tested for espresso before it ships.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

tambu said:


> "will an EK43 produce new / interesting / different / better brewed coffee, while also allowing me to quit hand-grinding for espresso" and I suspect I won't feel like I've answered it with Turkish burrs 🤷‍♂️


 In short, yes, providing you pay attention to other variable such as choice of water and bean choice/level of roast etc. For V60 or methods using similar grade filter papers, grind setting is around 12 plus or minus. For Chemex it's around 15. One thing that will stand out with a well extracted pour over from an EK is the sheer clarity in the cup. You will also be able to grind for espresso but bear in mind, your burrs will need to season before they are at their best, ekspresso-wise.

I refract all new beans for pour over to fine tune the grind to give me the extraction yield I want so I know that variable is nailed. Using a recommended water combination, I am rewarded with pour over coffee that is a perfect balance of mouthfeel and flavour profile. An EK can get the very best out of the bean - have some Geisha coming shortly and know the EKS will deliver.


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## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

The Systemic Kid said:


> For V60 or methods using similar grade filter papers, grind setting is around 12 plus or minus


 Perhaps this is one for another thread, but I am nowhere near this coarse for V60 (16-18g dose).

I don't know what is going on with my grinder for V60 - I back off as soon as I get a hint of bitterness, and that is usually around 6.5 for fruity beans. Pour time is generally about 2m30sec (including bloom) if I split my pours into 5 or 6 equal measures. If I do a Hoffman bloom plus two pours, it's a lot faster.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I once had three eks in my kitchen , all with same burrs and carrier , all aligned the same way by the same person .

one grinder at 2.5 to 3 for espresso , the other under 1 , the other near zero . Same coffee , same dose , same output , made in same machine. 
this is why I'll never get another ek, the variance in them for the price is too much . 
The lesson learned though is of you enjoy the coffee your make , don't compare them to other eks , it will give you a headache


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I had an EK with new coffee burrs and whilst it was fine for my L1 it couldn't go comfortably fine enough for the Vesuvius on the profile I was using, a lever style from 9 to 4 bar. As for Decaf it was nowhere near fine enough.

I got the Titus Aligned burr carrier to help with the alignment but whilst better and now able to grind for the V still couldn't go fine enough for Decaf. Eventually gave up and sold it and got a Compak R120 which copes easily with Decaf at 12 with burrs going down to zero.

The EK did produce great tasting espresso when dialled in but just didn't do all the things I wanted.


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## AJP80 (Feb 29, 2020)

If I was just an espresso drinker with a bit of brew on the side, I would have bought a niche. I know the EK is a lot of money for a brew grinder, but I've never tasted anything like it for V60, and I drink a lot of the stuff. And over the last ten years, I've spent many multiples the cost of the EK at Square Mile, which helps to put the price into perspective.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

Word of caution when comparing grind settings, there are different dials so one person's 12 could be another person's 7.


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