# Londinium pre infusion times



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I have found that Pre infusion times greatly affect my output and as such I am finding myself timing them , at the moment I am getting my most consitant results on 17grams in a 18g VST (cheers Callum ) with a five second pre infusion ,

At Five seconds I am not seeing any coffee coming through at all .

Should I adjust anything so that I get the first signs of coffee coming through ?

Pre infusion times have given me a right run around , and strangely enough the L1 seems to behave it self more the more relaxed and less stressed the user is .

Oh and before you ask Mr B about how it tastes in the cup , when I get it right , its sublime.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

For doses of 16-17grms - should be pre-infusing around 3-6secs is in the ballpark - first drips should occur then. Try opening up the grind a tad but keep everything else constant - dose and tamp pressure. If you have a naked - check the pour for dead spots.

Mantra for levers - grind finer - but tamp light.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> I have found that Pre infusion times greatly affect my output and as such I am finding myself timing them , at the moment I am getting my most consitant results on 17grams in a 18g VST (cheers Callum ) with a five second pre infusion ,
> 
> At Five seconds I am not seeing any coffee coming through at all .
> 
> ...


You dont NEED to see coffee dropping in pre infusion , your not neccesarily aiming for full saturation before letting go

If your grind is right then full pressure will induce extraction

The longer you pre infuse , the quicker the resulting shot ( if grind and dose are same )

Mantra - change one thing at a time , personally set a pre infusion time for now ( say 6 seconds )

Stick to it , adjust grind to alter taste in cup


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

boots is right....you do not start your count until the drops have formed a stream, so the fact it does or does not drip during pre infusion is irrelevant. In fact if it drips during 5 to6 seconds of pre infusion you need to tighten the grind up


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## billcoxfam (Jan 8, 2013)

Be consistent, always release some steam through the steam wand and then wait for the red light to go out just before pulling the shot.

In in this way, boiler pressure is at the maximum and pre-infusion pressure is the same for each shot.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Some really useful advice guys thanks , it's took a little while to work out where I was going wrong and then once I messed with the grinder it was a downward spiral.

First impression of the machine is of it living up to its reputation, I am so glad I took the leap and although this has given me a little bit of teething issues to start with I have never doubted the setup and always thought the problem was my skill set and its transformation from pump to lever .

never have I been so rewarded with great shots in such a short space of time , anyone contemplating making the change from pump to lever don't hesitate IMHO it's every bit as good as the lever stalwarts protested.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

It's not really a L1 but I have been doing 10 second pre-infusion with the La Pavoni and I can echo - never had coffee as good as from a lever.

Even though I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing it's hard to make a bad shot.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

I pre infuse for 6 seconds and haven't played around with that. I was interested in Callum's view at the Rave day, which in essence, if I understood it, was to be guided more by weight and taste than time. I would have liked to have explored this further but such was the nature of the day there wasn't an opportunity. An L1 love-in somewhere would be a good thing.


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## stevogums (May 8, 2013)

Few things i do to try and limit the variables ,one the steam wand tip small blast then wait for red light to go out then pull,pre for 8 secs and then its just grind/tamp light as possible and weight in/out for me really.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

The advice I've always followed from coffeechap is to preinfuse for a number of seconds corresponding witht the second number of your dose. So for example 16g, 6 seconds. 18g, 8 seconds. 20g, 10 seconds


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I think saturating the whole puck with preinfusion is at least desirable (but not essential). What I'm not sure of its whether there'd be any difference in the cup between a short or long preinfusion. Anyone tested this?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Longer pre infusion will allow a finer grind should result in higher extraction yield and tastier cup ( if grinder is capable )


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I let the pre infusion run to 7 seconds this morning which was just enough for the coffee to show on the bottom of the basket. This did as expected let the shot run a little bit quicker .

I am going to stick with five seconds for now and keep that a constant and try and fine tune the grind ,

will be be treating it to the lovely foundry coffee I got at forum day last Sunday so happy days

The drama and anticipation of pulling a shot each time is great ! Levers are fun fun fun !


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

This is Reiss' advice on preinfusion

http://londiniumespresso.com/forum/tutorials-maintenance/366-pre-infusion


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

CamV6 said:


> This is Reiss' advice on preinfusion
> 
> http://londiniumespresso.com/forum/tutorials-maintenance/366-pre-infusion


cant access it I am afraid , and as for registration couldn't find that gave up after trying for ten minutes


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Here you go, quick copy and paste for you

pre-infusion is pretty basic, but a couple of comments may assist -

1. pull the lever down immediately after the red (element) light turns off - this ensures you are pre-infusing with the maximum pressure available in the system. tweak the steam to force the element on if you need to

2. no coffee should drip from the portafilter during pre-infusion - if it does you have most likely done a poor job of loading the basket and tamping, otherwise your grind is too coarse for the dose, or if it is the first grind for a few hours you have used stale coffee that has dried out while it has bit sitting in the grind - have another go before you set your grinder finer as the second shot will be a lot fresher and the third ideal - this is particularly relevant if you have a large grinder, and even more so if it has conical burrs

3. pre-infusing for 7 seconds for 18-20g should be enough - for 14g less time, say 4 seconds, will be usually be enough to wet the entire puck


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

> 2. no coffee should drip from the portafilter during pre-infusion - if it does you have most likely done a poor job of loading the basket and tamping, otherwise your grind is too coarse for the dose, or if it is the first grind for a few hours you have used stale coffee that has dried out while it has bit sitting in the grind - have another go before you set your grinder finer as the second shot will be a lot fresher and the third ideal - this is particularly relevant if you have a large grinder, and even more so if it has conical burrs


Or, as I know from dripping experience, there is a problem with the seal around the shower screen or I have been too casual in locking in the PF and it's not forming a tight enough seal. All easily remediable, of course.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

CamV6 said:


> The advice I've always followed from coffeechap is to preinfuse for a number of seconds corresponding witht the second number of your dose. So for example 16g, 6 seconds. 18g, 8 seconds. 20g, 10 seconds


I have to admit when I first read this post I was a little bit sceptical and then after I spoke to CC on Saturday and we discussed this again and he also suggested to try it . I thought why not give it ago .

Reporting back I have only tried different dosing in a 18g VST but I have to admit there is a lot of validity in the claim. And My extractions are coming out wonderfully .

I have yet to try grinding really fine and tamping lighter , I am working on the premis of whilst I am getting good coffee why change it .

Using the L1 is a dream and when loading it in the car nearly a fortnight ago I remember dave's reassuring comment of 'don't worry it the easiest coffee machine you will ever own ' . How true this has turned out to be .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> I have yet to try grinding really fine and tamping lighter , I am working on the premis of whilst I am getting good coffee why change it .


Try it out, it might be even better


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Try it out, it might be even better


i am what I call really fine now , if I go any finer on the grinders we are in uncharted territory , plus I am waiting for my next bean delivery as stocks are getting low . Started using the major for some single dosing magic of my foundry stock , wow lovely clump free fluffy grinds but a bit fierce with its dosing ,so catching them without making a mess is a bit tricky .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What's your plans for the major? Eventually run it with a hopper or just single dose? Be good to make use of the electronics


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> What's your plans for the major? Eventually run it with a hopper or just single dose? Be good to make use of the electronics


I want to compare it to the Kony's conical burrs and see the difference in the cup first , the electronics are faultless so using it OD will be an easy transition , retention is nowhere to be seen so compared to its counterpart it wins on that count, first impressions ! The grind quality is there but as I said the dosing is verioucious so it can get a little messy if you're half asleep .

The Kony tends to clump a little which makes for an unattractive basket but with carefull distribution and tamp it's not an issue .

The major produces fantastic looking grinds and if you load the basket right at the grinder it's just a tamp and go .

Its early days for taste comparison .

ill try post up some pictures of grind in the basket when I get time , you'll see what I mean .


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> I am working on the premis of whilst I am getting good coffee why change it .


Absolutely right.

If you are happy with your process currently don't change for a while for the sake of it. Yes its an easy and forgiving machine but like all things you need to get to know it over time. Then, if you want to experiment once you know what the machine likes and doesn't like and how it behaves if you change (say) bean, dose or extraction time, you can fettle your process.

BTW, try a 'mid-point' ristretto. You'll be astonished at the sweet cup you get. Let the first couple of seconds of the pour go into the tray, then put the cup under and pull it away again just as the stream starts to tail off


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Didn't want to start a new post , but just cleaned the L1 and I am amazed how little residue was in the shower screen I am still managing to get great shots with very little effort , texturing milk is a breeze I truly believe this is probably the best machine you can get so far for the domestic environment .

#caffienefueledawe


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Another thumb's up needed?


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## ben446 (Feb 6, 2018)

LR, Ceado e37s, 17.5g in stock basket, med light roast, distribution tool, light tamp, even flow.

Higher grind setting is courser. PI is time till right before first drop in bottomless pf.

3 grind PI 10s 60s 30g

3.5 grind PI 8s 50s 30g

4.5 grind PI 4s 43s 30g

5.5 grind PI 1s 30s 30g

If I grind for my PI time, 6 sec for instance, I am finding that my extraction time is high and taste is 'burnt'. To get more towards the 30g in 30s 'ideal' I can open up the grind but then my PI times goes to almost nothing which is not the most relaxing experience. I have the same experience with 16g in stock basket as well. Any advice?


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