# Stale beans?



## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

If coffee is stale, is there such a thing as a "typical taste/flavour" that will be obvious?

I opened the current bag of beans a couple of weeks ago, at the start they tasted amazing (same as what I remember when I bought them before) but now they have a very distinct "burnt/bitter" taste to them that was not present in the previous bag, nor present when this big was freshly opened.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Unlikely they have staled that quickly, as they have degassed extraction may have shifted a little. Try adjusting your grind setting to see how that changes the flavour, unfortunately "burnt/Bitter" could be due to low, or very high extraction, so I can't from that info say, 'go coarser/finer'.

Is it a charred, woody bitterness, maybe a little iron like flavour?

Or is it caramel, smoky, drying, slightly sickly bitterness?

Which brewer?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

This is, it tastes like charred and smoky? Definitely no caramel, but just a charred burnt bitterness.

This was using the Aeropress.

Today I used a new bag, which was roasted on the 10th Sept, and although I'm not getting as much burnt taste, it certainly is there moreso in my Aeropress that I used now than I can taste at all with my machine (absolutely no bitterness in the machine at all).

15g, Lido3, number 6 (fine sand)

500ml water, boiled, left for 2mins

Inverted method Aeropress

30g bloom, 30 sec, gentle swirl of the whole aeropress

200g water, 1.30

Gentle stir with paddle

Plunge over 30 sec

I did pre-wet rinse paper filter.

I did get some bitterness with this fresh coffee in the aeropress, I get none at all using the same coffee with my machine.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Looks like a low extraction, you can leave it longer than 1:30 & use boiling water.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Yesterday when I got the strong burnt/bitter taste, I used the Lido 3 on a grind setting of 5.5, fine grind, everything else was the same. So can it still be low extraction?

I changed it to grind setting 6 today thinking "oh, bitter, must be over extraction", and I have to say the bitterness is less but it should not be there at all (albeit this is a different coffee now - but both coffees I know don't have any bitterness, at all).

Would you still say low extraction?

If I wanted to keep the brew time of 1.30, what else could I adjust (and which way should I go)? Go to 16g, 17g, 18g?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

So when you eat one of the beans you don't get any bitterness? Why not just brew longer as advised? If it gets worse the you try something else...


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> So when you eat one of the beans you don't get any bitterness? Why not just brew longer as advised? If it gets worse the you try something else...


I use Aeropress at work, I'm trying to make it as efficient as possible, by that I mean as quick as possible, hence wanted to keep the brew time as short as possible. I know 1m30s brew time can be done, I have seen it in a lto of aeropress recipes, I just need to try and figure out what I need to adjust to get the best out of that time.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Have you compared your water composition to the water composition you've seen in recipes? You might well have very soft water that won't extract as well or might extract more (harder). If grinding finer doesn't work, and grinding coarser doesn't work, adding more coffee isn't going to do anything that reducing the amount of brew water isn't going to do. Trouble with recipes is it doesn't take into consideration equipment, water, and coffee differences.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Haven't compared the water composition, and I doubt that would be possible as most recipes that I have seen online give no indication of where the water was from.

I live in an area that has ultra soft water. What sort of effect does softer water have on the extraction? Does softer water extract more, or less than harder water, with all other variables the same?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Dr Forinor said:


> Yesterday when I got the strong burnt/bitter taste, I used the Lido 3 on a grind setting of 5.5, fine grind, everything else was the same. So can it still be low extraction?
> 
> I changed it to grind setting 6 today thinking "oh, bitter, must be over extraction", and I have to say the bitterness is less but it should not be there at all (albeit this is a different coffee now - but both coffees I know don't have any bitterness, at all).
> 
> ...


Grind as fine as the Lido will go, pour in boiling water, leave the Aeropress half an hour and you still won't over-extract the coffee. So, yes, I'd still say low extraction. Immersions tend to extract similaraly at the same grind, irrespective of brew ratio, so more coffee will just make it stronger/more intense but with the same fault.

Don't press all the way until you hear the hiss, watch the water level, stop pressing when you see the bed. I also like to pull out the plunger just before pressing, let the flow start under gravity, then back in & press gently, there's no magic number for how long the press should take.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Dr Forinor said:


> If coffee is stale, is there such a thing as a "typical taste/flavour" that will be obvious?
> 
> I opened the current bag of beans a couple of weeks ago, at the start they tasted amazing (same as what I remember when I bought them before) but now they have a very distinct "burnt/bitter" taste to them that was not present in the previous bag, nor present when this big was freshly opened.


Going back to my original question, I tried that beans in my machine. The same beans that were giving a lovely chocolatey flavour to start with, are now giving off a generic "coffee" taste with bitterness that my aeropress was giving - not quite as burnt though.

Could it be the beans? The settings in my machine are exactly the same since I got the machine, have never changed anything - and I changed all the settings at the start to suit me.

Any ideas?


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! I've just had a thought!!!

Ok, my chocolatey beans (which I don't know the roast date for), and the fresh beans (which I know to be roasted on 10 Sept) both had the burnt/bitter taste from the AeroPress - if that's my doing or not I don't know.

BUT, the chocolatey beans gave a bitter flavour when made from the machine, which they never did before.

I'm thinking, have I inadvertently made them go bad?

They were both stored in their own airtight jar, not see through but both on the counter top. In among the kettle, the toaster, very close proximity to the cooker (hob and oven), and although they were not see through they are in a position where direct sunlight hits them early in the morning.

Could that have done it, general heat build up around the area?

(I've now moved the jars completely away into a dark food storage cupboard.)


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

I think it could well have made a difference- I have experienced similar in the past.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Dumnorix said:


> I think it could well have made a difference- I have experienced similar in the past.


At the moment I'm convinced that's the root cause of the issue. Too much of a coincidence for 2 different coffees to be giving a very similar bitter taste?


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## Boomalla (Feb 1, 2019)

i find that stale coffee smells like an ashtray...bleh


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dr Forinor said:


> OOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! I've just had a thought!!!
> 
> Ok, my chocolatey beans (which I don't know the roast date for), and the fresh beans (which I know to be roasted on 10 Sept) both had the burnt/bitter taste from the AeroPress - if that's my doing or not I don't know.
> 
> ...


Unless there is a massive heat swell. In that areas a bit of sunlight isn't going to make a bean bitter in extraction.

Staleness usually results in Beans having flat flavour, having to grind finer that usual etc


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