# Monolith Owners Division



## MildredM

I thought it was about time that the Monolith owners on the forum could unite in a show of fellowship and mutual aggrandisment









'The MODs', it has a nice ring to it!


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## ronsil

Got a feeling you're going to on your own for a bit.

Niche in the background & a few waiting to register interest when the Monolith opens its waiting list again.


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## coffeechap

Will post some pictures of mine this week


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## Snakehips

Me too.

The MODs eh ?

When the Niche comes out I wonder if they will create the Niche Owners Brigade.... and be known as the NOBs ?









@MildredM Are we going to show a united front or are we to have Sub-Divisions.... Conical & Flat ?


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## coffeechap

I think a united front is called for to deflect from the nobs


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## Snakehips

coffeechap said:


> I think a united front is called for to deflect from the nobs


Wilco.... over and out !


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## jimbojohn55

not that I'm jealous at all, but I feel like one of these provincial fellows looking on from side-lines


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## coffeechap

there are at 5 of us that have them now


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## MildredM

Snakehips said:


> Me too.
> 
> The MODs eh ?
> 
> When the Niche comes out I wonder if they will create the Niche Owners Brigade.... and be known as the NOBs ?


Fancy, I hadn't even thought of that . . .



> @MildredM Are we going to show a united front or are we to have Sub-Divisions.... Conical & Flat ?


Oh a united front, I think, don't you? No in-fighting then . . .


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## MildredM

coffeechap said:


> there are at 5 of us that have them now


Three here and I know of two more - I wonder if they are the same two . . .


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## MildredM

jimbojohn55 said:


> not that I'm jealous at all, but I feel like one of these provincial fellows looking on from side-lines


Ho!!! Yes! That is exactly how it is. (I have to say though, you needn't think you are going to get your paws on my Monolith)


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## grumpydaddy

Any of you have the Flat one?


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## coffeechap

grumpydaddy said:


> Any of you have the Flat one?


Indeed I have


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## MildredM

coffeechap said:


> Indeed I have


I don't think we need ask what you think to it or whether it lives up to expectations!


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## cambosheff

Oops I did it again...


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## MildredM

Oh wow!! Fantastic


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## Snakehips

cambosheff said:


> Oops I did it again...


Well who'd have thought it !


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## grumpydaddy

MildredM said:


> I don't think we need ask what you think to it or whether it lives up to expectations!


But I would be interested in your thoughts @coffeechap on the relative merits of this vs the r120


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## 4085

I love owners threads! Who is going to be the first to say it is shit then!


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> I love owners threads! Who is going to be the first to say it is shit then!


Happy to give my honest opinion as you know dave


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> Happy to give my honest opinion as you know dave


I know, but will anyone else?


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## Snakehips

dfk41 said:


> I love owners threads! Who is going to be the first to say it is shit then!


I could be up for it........... is there a prize ?


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> I know, but will anyone else?


Anyway, get off our thread, you don't have one so bog off


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> Anyway, get off our thread, you don't have one so bog off


Shall I be the first to say that I am a NOB?


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## 4085

coffeechap said:


> Anyway, get off our thread, you don't have one so bog off


Shall I be the first to say that I am a NOB?


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## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> Shall I be the first to say that I am a NOB?


A double nob!


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## jlarkin

dfk41 said:


> Shall I be the first to say that I am a NOB?


All due respect and all, however, I'm sure you're not the first to say that ;-P.


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## 4085

did you call yourself a NOB joe? I thought it was just a general label, waiting to be applied!


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## MildredM

Back to business after our brief . . . interlude!!!

Just in case anyone needed to know how a Mono arrives:

A big strong box appears (after being tracked 14 times en route by DHL and only taking 4 days to arrive)










Upon opening you find The Best Packaging material ever! Well, it was to me because I hadn't ever seen this kind of packing before. It has some kind of thing that, when activated moulds to the product.










And that's about it!










There's a poly bag . . .










And a box of bits -










And a bag of beans


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## Nod

coffeechap said:


> Happy to give my honest opinion as you know dave


I am also interested - comparison against r120 and the versalab


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## coffeechap

Nod said:


> I am also interested - comparison against r120 and the versalab


Have to get them all on the bench together!


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## johnealey

Titan Day! Titan Day!










John


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## Nod

coffeechap said:


> Have to get them all on the bench together!


Reckon you could sell tickets for that session...


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## 9719

Reckon you could sell tickets for that session...

Raffle?


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## MildredM

It is inspiring to photograph


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## jlarkin

dfk41 said:


> did you call yourself a NOB joe? I thought it was just a general label, waiting to be applied!


I'm proud to call myself a NOB Dave



MildredM said:


> Back to business after our brief . . . interlude!!!


HA that's what you think - us nobs are always willing to pop up at a moment's notice, one track mind really.


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## MildredM

jlarkin said:


> HA that's what you think - us nobs are always willing to pop up at a moment's notice, one track mind really.


Good! We need regular interludes . . . it could get boring otherwise . . .


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## Lefteye

@MildredM. Where did you get those bean tubes. Look v nice


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## MildredM

Lefteye said:


> @MildredM. Where did you get those bean tubes. Look v nice


Direct from KafaTek









They are a work of art . . .

EDIT : so I don't confuse people please see my post on next page, they were from LW not KafaTek


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## Lefteye

@MildredM. Where did you get those bean tubes. Look v nice


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## MildredM

Lefteye said:


> @MildredM. Where did you get those bean tubes. Look v nice


Sorry! ! I meant the Lyn Weber site! I was just talking to someone about the Monolith and KafaTek and got muddled!!,


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## MildredM

Here we go!


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## Milanski

Does it require WDT and RDT?? Hardly seems like a step forward if so...


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## coffeechap

Finally in situ, now to season it


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## Milanski

...separated at birth.


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## u2jewel

If I may ask.. There seems to be more flats than conicals out there.. When choosing between the 2, was it an easy choice for you all? I am sure it's not the colour that swung votes! And given the price difference, that's not it either.. Is it purely flat vs conical preference?


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## coffeechap

It's all about the yield !


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## MildredM

u2jewel said:


> If I may ask.. There seems to be more flats than conicals out there.. When choosing between the 2, was it an easy choice for you all? I am sure it's not the colour that swung votes! And given the price difference, that's not it either.. Is it purely flat vs conical preference?


I think, and I may be wrong, two of us here have conical and two flats, at present. World wide? I couldn't say.

Personally, my choice was made for me. It was the last one of anything from this run. Given the choice though I would still have chosen the conical. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a flat too . . .


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## u2jewel

MildredM said:


> I think, and I may be wrong, two of us here have conical and two flats, at present. World wide? I couldn't say.
> 
> Personally, my choice was made for me. It was the last one of anything from this run. Given the choice though I would still have chosen the conical. I'm not saying I wouldn't like a flat too . . .


Wouldn't it be lovely if you could swap them between conics/flats out like AP/BG burrs in sette! (in fantasy world!)


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## coffeechap

Impossible with these


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## coffeechap

Must say having put 10kg through mine today it has settled down. I am super impressed with the build quality and am working on the best way to use this. I noticed others having a horrendous time with the flat, however what I have notice is that you can set the speed to give you 1g per second then use it like you would on on demand with approx 50g of beans in the hopper and this stops thebpopcorning which you get with any single dosing and prevents the chaff that flats are prone to when single dosing. The cost is that you have to put up with .5 - 1g retention, however the grind consistency is then up there with the very best grinders I have ever used.


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## coffeechap

It is super compact had a fantastic motor, is the quietest grinder I have ever come across oh did I say it was superbly engineered?


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## coffeechap

Would be great to get them together!


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## the_partisan

I'm curious how the Monolith Flat and / or Conical perform for brewed coffee, and if they're anything as good as an EK43? Also can they grind fine enough for Turkish? I'm thinking if this is the only grinder out there that can compare to the EK43, but also has a more home friendly form factor..


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## Thecatlinux

Video of the flat in use would be nice


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## MildredM

coffeechap said:


> It is super compact had a fantastic motor, is the quietest grinder I have ever come across oh did I say it was superbly engineered?


Safe to say you are impressed!


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> Video of the flat in use would be nice


there will be no videos outside of TEK club


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## coffeechap

MildredM said:


> Safe to say you are impressed!


its not bad


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## Thecatlinux

coffeechap said:


> there will be no videos outside of TEK club


i do not understand this ....."???.


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## Nod

It is not very central but if Unoll and Grumpydaddy were keen we could host in Plymouth? We have a EK, versalab m3 and mazzer royal in Plymouh....


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> i do not understand this ....."???.


thats because you are not part of TEK club


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## coffeechap

Nod said:


> It is not very central but if Unoll and Grumpydaddy were keen we could host in Plymouth? We have a EK, versalab m3 and mazzer royal in Plymouh....


but we have Ek43, royal,r120 versa lab and kafetek near cirencester!!!!


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## Thecatlinux

coffeechap said:


> thats because you are not part of TEK club


i am guessing you will soon have your own exclusive merchandise then ?


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## Thecatlinux

These look amazing grinders , I am really in a quandary at which one I prefer , flat or conical .

still I can't afford one of these beasts at the moment so not losing too much sleep making my decision.


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## Thecatlinux

coffeechap said:


> but we have Ek43, royal,r120 versa lab and kafetek near cirencester!!!!


I can can sense a RAVE coming together


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> I can can sense a RAVE coming together


So can I


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## coffeechap

Thecatlinux said:


> i am guessing you will soon have your own exclusive merchandise then ?


Perhaps a bespoke bar towel?


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## coffeechap

A TEK towel


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## MildredM

I can probably manage a run of 4 MOD towels.


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## MildredM

This thread is feeling a little neglected . . . here's a top-up . . .


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## MildredM

My soon-to-be bookmark


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## MildredM

Orders are once again being taken for the Monolith, flat or conical. Just saying









https://www.kafatek.com/index.php/store/monolith-68mm-titan-conical-grinder-deposit/


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## MildredM

MildredM said:


> Orders are once again being taken for the Monolith, flat or conical. Just saying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.kafatek.com/index.php/store/monolith-68mm-titan-conical-grinder-deposit/


Just for the record the pre orders all sold within a few short hours . . .


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## coffeechap

Hold off on buying that flat Mildred, as there might be a cheeky raffle soon!


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## MildredM

Things are a little quiet over here . . .


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## jimbojohn55

That's because the famous five have sent Mildred undercover...



MildredM said:


> Things are a little quiet over here . . .


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## MildredM

jimbojohn55 said:


> That's because the famous five have sent Mildred undercover...


And here was me thinking I was all alone on this thread


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## jimbojohn55

MildredM said:


> And here was me thinking I was all alone on this thread


not at all I often wander past and look in the window till the security guard and my bank manager comes out and tells me to "jog on lad"


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## MildredM

jimbojohn55 said:


> not at all I often wander past and look in the window till the security guard and my bank manager comes out and tells me to "jog on lad"


Ahhh! I did wonder where all the smudges were coming from *grabs window polish and cloth*


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## cambosheff

Machine due soon so fingers crossed I can have a bit of input then (assuming I've not sold it


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## mmmatron

cambosheff said:


> Machine due soon so fingers crossed I can have a bit of input then (assuming I've not sold it


What did you get in the end?


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## cambosheff

Black Linea Mini should be here on the 20th. If you're passing at anytime you're more than welcome to pull a few shots.


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## MildredM

cambosheff said:


> Black Linea Mini should be here on the 20th. If you're passing at anytime you're more than welcome to pull a few shots.


You are such a patient man . . . what a superb choice, I for one can't wait to read/see/hear more about it! And the 'flat'


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## Snakehips

cambosheff said:


> Black Linea Mini should be here on the 20th. If you're passing at anytime you're more than welcome to pull a few shots.


So, you're actually planning to take it out of the box then ?


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## cambosheff

Hahaha it depends on what pops up on the FS thread between now and then


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## mmmatron

cambosheff said:


> Black Linea Mini should be here on the 20th. If you're passing at anytime you're more than welcome to pull a few shots.


Woo! Lovely. Can't wait to hear about it.

Cheers, I may well take you up on that offer next time I'm passing


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## mmmatron

Snakehips said:


> So, you're actually planning to take it out of the box then ?


Can I have first refusal?


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## Mrboots2u

cambosheff said:


> Black Linea Mini should be here on the 20th. If you're passing at anytime you're more than welcome to pull a few shots.


In the coffee forums betting shop , i have placed a substantial amount of virtual cash on 6 weeks before you get bored and sell it


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## cambosheff

Winner winner chicken dinner!


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## 4085

Have I lost my crown then to Cambo?


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## MildredM

dfk41 said:


> Have I lost my crown then to Cambo?


Buy Cambo's machine then send it back, and forth . . . a few times


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## cambosheff

Haha I think I've been dealt a harsh hand chief, I still bow to you as


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## igm45

cambosheff said:


> Black Linea Mini should be here on the 20th. If you're passing at anytime you're more than welcome to pull a few shots.


Lovely jubbly!!

Best start replacing the ancillary equipment you sold too....


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## Mrboots2u

cambosheff said:


> Haha I think I've been dealt a harsh hand chief, I still bow to you as


You will have a great grinder and machine, just stick with it and enjoy the coffee they make.


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> In the coffee forums betting shop , i have placed a substantial amount of virtual cash on 6 weeks before you get bored and sell it


Im guessing you went for six weeks as the odds were better


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## mmmatron

I 'accidentally' put my name down on the mailing list  this forum will be my financial ruin!


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## Snakehips

mmmatron said:


> I 'accidentally' put my name down on the mailing list  this forum will be my financial ruin!


Splendid!!! It's only money and I've no doubt that Cambo will underwrite the purchase.

If it's not too rude to ask........ flat or conical ?


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## mmmatron

Snakehips said:


> Splendid!!! It's only money and I've no doubt that Cambo will underwrite the purchase.
> 
> If it's not too rude to ask........ flat or conical ?


That's the debate! I've been chatting with Lee from foundry about options as the E8 isn't quite suiting my needs (lovely tasting cuppas mind). He suggested thinking about a Mythos amongst other things, but on further research it's too big for my little coffee corner. That got me onto the monolith. So, in my long winded response, I think the conical, mainly because my E10 was brilliant and I regret selling it and they seem to require less faff in shot prep.

Now begins the agonising wait for the next run


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## Snakehips

@mmmatron I've had my Conical for about three months now and love it !

I'm conscious that I've not posted any comments here yet so I will try and remedy that very shortly.


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## mmmatron

Snakehips said:


> @mmmatron I've had my Conical for about three months now and love it !
> 
> I'm conscious that I've not posted any comments here yet so I will try and remedy that very shortly.


Fab, I'll look forward to it


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## iroko

Now begins the agonising wait for the next run 

Perhaps this will help, arrived today
















Pic of first shot which ran slow. second shot was also slow but better.

I will try to run some beans through over the weekend and mess around some more.


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## Snakehips

@iroko. Is that from the current production batch?


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## Snakehips

@mmmatron My understanding is that the current production run is not too far off completion and that there is a smaller, fully subscribed, production run scheduled for delivery in February 2018.

So it could well be the April/May 2018 before the next batch ships.

Previously, email notifications have been sent out declaring that pre-orders are open and typically, the whole allocation of conicals have been snapped up inside four hours. (Flats two days.) So very much a lottery as to how quickly you get to see and respond to the notification email. I've already posted on a previous thread that I had a huge stroke of luck that enabled me to react and secure my pre-order back in June.

Anyway, the good news is that Kafatek will now look to give about one week prior notice when they announce the date that new pre-orders will open. That should give prospective buyers, especially those here in the UK, a far better opportunity to get in there on time !


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## mmmatron

Thanks @Snakehips, I'll keep an eye out.

I've got 4 different bags of beans in my cupboard, I'm looking forward to being able to alternate with ease!


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## Snakehips

Some Monolith Conical related waffle&#8230;&#8230;.

Back in February, I was fancying the idea of both single-dosing and trying a conical grinder. That's when I fist became aware of the Kafatek Monolith grinders, manufactured in Seattle by Denis Basaric. I found the notion of having a grinder that was specifically designed to single-dose very appealing so I registered to receive notification as and when pre-orders opened for the next production batch. As previously posted, I had a big chunk of luck that enabled me to get my name on a conical.

Then followed what seemed like a long wait, with no real indication of how things were progressing. Until, the end of July, when an email advised that components were sourced, machined and finished and that assembly, testing and shipping would soon commence. This was to be done in batches of six machines, alternating between flats and conicals, each in order number sequence. A new webpage became available showing the up to date status of all machines, by order number. I was pleasantly surprised by speed at which final assembly progressed and on 10th August, final payment was requested with a view to the machine being shipped on Friday 11th.

On 12th August I received a test report. My machine had been used to grind a reference bean for several shots pulled on a single group Slayer. The shots were assessed using both refractometer measurement and taste and the grinder had met expectations.

Monday 14th August, just four days after despatch in the US, DHL delivered here in the UK !

The packaging was superb, see MildredM's photos in post #29, so 'Monty' arrived safe and well accompanied by an aluminium portafilter funnel, OCD style levelling tool, WDT tool, RDT spray bottle and a bag of beans. UK customers are advised that they need to supply their own standard PC or kettle, mains lead and if you have that to hand then the grinder is good to go within minutes.

This batch saw the introduction of the new 'safety hopper', designed to stop inquisitive children or inebriated home baristas from losing fingers. It is easily removable should anyone wish to revert to using the old open hopper. The previously standard wooden cap for the open hopper is now an optional extra. Even with the addition of the safety hopper the grinder is only 415mm high. The base is just 200mm x 160mm and with the body about 120mm x 90 mm it seemed positively dinkey compared to the Olympus 75e. However it weighs in at a solid and extremely well engineered, 10 kilogram.









I had a somewhat disjointed first week of ownership with circumstances not conducive to me do much other than snatching the odd coffee, to drink. The dark roast coffee that came with the grinder was soon designated as burr seasoning fodder and the notion that I could suddenly switch from my usual 18g vst and double spout to a new 15g vst and naked pf was soon dismissed as extremely foolish thinking. So I was into week two before I was able to give the new machine the attention it deserved.

It really didn't take much sorting. The main issue was convincing myself that I should need to be grinding a good 7 full marks finer than the setting it arrived with (espresso for the test beans and pulled on the Slayer). Having done so, I removed the original vinyl pointer that was fast disappearing off the scale, and added a new one to give me a fresh mid-scale reference.

This grinder is so quiet. Quiet when grinding and almost silent if running without beans.

It is not a fast grinder. It runs at 144 rpm in order to grind coffee evenly and minimise heating.

Adjustment is step-less and simple. Just ease off the locking screw, rotate the then free-turning hopper then nip up the locking screw. Should you ever forget to re-lock, the direction of rotation will open the burrs, not close, so not likely to do any damage.

The fixed scale,1 -10, is subdivided. Settings are not absolute but relative to the aforementioned pointer which you might typically set at 5 to represent the 'middle' of your espresso range. You can go well off scale to achieve courser grinds for brewing or extremely fine grinds if you wish. Maybe if switching regularly from espresso to brewed, have a second, different colour pointer that is on scale for your brew range.

I had imagined myself pre-weighing a day's worth of beans into cellars but without the pressure to produce several shots back to back, I'm happy to weigh as I go. I actually like the idea of being able to scan the beans for foreign objects as I weigh out.

Grind quality was good from the get go but improved even within the first 5kg or so of throughput.

Depending upon beans and humidity, there is evidence of some static but I have not yet felt the need to use the RDT spray bottle supplied.

It makes sense to use the supplied portafilter funnel when grinding direct into the portafilter. If the supports are set correctly then you can leave the portafilter unattended and grind hands free. I prefer to grind, hands free, but into a catch cup and then tip the grounds into the portafilter. I also routinely use a photo lens puffer that sits nicely in the 19mm hole in the safety hopper. Two or three puffs towards the end of grind ensure maximum output. It varies bean to bean but there will invariably be a small amount of coffee stuck inside the exit chute. The chute is magnetically attached and therefore easily removed. A tap of a finger is enough to quickly clear the chute.

I experience virtually no mess from ground coffee. There appears to be more chaff produced than with my previous grinders and what little mess there is, is from chaff.









I will make a separate post shortly giving some insight into dose consistency and retention values but for now let me just say that I no longer feel the need to weigh the output. Sometimes I do but I don't need to as I'm confident that it will be well within my acceptable limits.

I do stir the dose as much out of habit as anything else. I have had great tasting coffee both with and without but I like to stir.

So to conclude. I love this grinder. There is nothing in the way that I use it that annoys or frustrates me. I'm not blessed with a particularly educated palate but I do know that I am getting something more from my coffee than ever before. It's great to be able to flip between different beans at will and extremely satisfying to know that you are not needlessly wasting coffee beans.


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## mmmatron

Thanks @Snakehips, this is excellent and has thoroughly sold me on the idea


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## coffeechap

Just which one? The flat is superb


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## MildredM

The Conical isn't too bad either


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## mmmatron

coffeechap said:


> Just which one? The flat is superb


Listen, don't be confusing me 

I'm going for the conical...but the flat does look very good...oh bugger!


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## coffeechap

They are both superb


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## Snakehips

Some more Monolith Conical related waffle&#8230;&#8230;.

Some observations that hopefully give an idea of the retention I'm getting with my Monolith Conical (TiN Burrs). Measurements taken were never intended to be part of a controlled investigation but none the less, they were taken with care using an Acaia Lunar scale.

Some coffee sticking to the inside of the hopper. Above the burrs so I do wonder if some of this is down to my using the puffer ?









Undo two socket screws at the rear of the top plate, slightly slacken three screws at top of the back plate and the top burr assembly is easily removed.

Coffee collects in all the usual places. Visually, there appears to be quite a lot !









All the retained coffee bar for whatever small amount might be under the lower burr, was carefully removed and weighed. Total retention after 26 days of use was 1.51g









13 days later a second clear out weighed in at 1.05g

After a further 43 days use the total was 1.54g

I'm happy to regard that as 1.5g total retention and can't see why that figure would increase!

Not unnaturally, immediately following a clean out, the larger voids in the grind chamber, such as the counter-bores in the top burr, swallow up grounds from the first few doses. Typically, I recorded 0.5g gone missing within the first three, post clean-out, grinds.

However, once settled, I consider dose variance to be within acceptable limits.

Two grinds this morning as a random example&#8230;..

First grind : Beans in 18.71g Coffee out 18,62g Coffee AWOL 0.09g

90 Min later : Beans in. 18.67 Coffee out 18.63 Coffee AWOL 0.04g

I've had such a high incidence of the grinder yielding what I've put in +- 0.20g that I've long since stopped making notes. I do the odd spot check on weight out if it takes my fancy. Here are some typical values from back when I did.

IN	Out Diff

18.60	18.40	0.20

18.56	18.42	0.14

18.65	18.54	0.11

18.60	18.46	0.14

18.63	18.37	0.26

18.62	18.47	0.15

18.61	18.50	0.11

18.70	18.65	0.05

18.56	18.53	0.03

18.62	18.35	0.27

18.56	18.17	0.39 *after a clean out

18.62	18.50	0.12

18.19	17.93	0.26

Roast level and humidity will be factors that affect dose variance. Often, variance is zero and on occasion you get out more than you put in ! I assume that is down to variance in the 'exchange' that DavecUK speaks of in his Niche grinder review.

I do know that if after grinding, I momentarily back off the grind setting then re-set it and run the grinder for a few seconds, I can get anything between 0.00g to 0.30g additional coffee out. I'm assuming that represents a good proportion of the 'exchange' coffee? It only takes a few seconds to do but quite frankly, I don't bother.

End of waffle methinks!


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## coffeechap

Can't wait to see this and the flat side by side at the Forum day


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## iroko

Snakehips said:


> @iroko. Is that from the current production batch?


 @Snakehips, Yes It's from the current production batch.


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## Snakehips

@iroko Are you preferring to use without the safety hopper?


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## iroko

I took It off when first got grinder, haven't tried grinder with It on.

I'm the only one using grinder so really not needed.


----------



## Snakehips

I know it's early days but are you pleased with it ?


----------



## iroko

Very pleased, top quality. I,m going to run some beans through during the week to help season the burrs.

I've only managed to run 4 shots through so far.


----------



## Thecatlinux

Great posts snakehips , conical with real low retention what's not to like , you said you produce a fair bit of chaf ,is this the same for all the different types of beans you've tried.?

cant wait to see both these at the rave day .


----------



## cambosheff

@mmmatron if you want to have a go with the flat prior to buying one (a kafatek I know you've picked out a conical) you're welcome to take mine for a week or so while Im without machine if you're passing.


----------



## Snakehips

Thecatlinux said:


> Great posts snakehips , conical with real low retention what's not to like , you said you produce a fair bit of chaf ,is this the same for all the different types of beans you've tried.?
> 
> cant wait to see both these at the rave day .


 @Thecatlinux Thanks.

Good question re the chaff and the honest answer is that I don't know. It's certainly not a big deal but there would appear to be more chaff than I've noticed before and it does find it's way out to either cling to the grinder or onto the worktop. I will now try and establish if it varies much between bean type and will report back.


----------



## MildredM

I've noticed a bit of chaff. In my mind I thought it was more noticable [than other grinders] because everything comes out (bar maybe the odd miniscule of a gram) and that it was probably clogging up the internals of previus grinders I've had.

Some beans are slighly more chaffy than others, in my opinion. Only slightly so - and there's only a slight amount of chaff.


----------



## igm45

MildredM said:


> I've noticed a bit of chaff. In my mind I thought it was more noticable [than other grinders] because everything comes out (bar maybe the odd miniscule of a gram) and that it was probably clogging up the internals of previus grinders I've had.
> 
> Some beans are slighly more chaffy than others, in my opinion. Only slightly so - and there's only a slight amount of chaff.


I get a fair amount of chaff with the HG1 too. I also assumed it was to do with the single dosing nature


----------



## Snakehips

Well I've exclusively used the Union Bobolink today and there ain't not no blinkin' chaff to be seen !!!!!

The Bobo is new to my repertoire as of yesterday so it must looks like the chaffers are likely to be amongst my Foundry / Pharmacie beans.

I reckon Rocko Mountain was a chaffer but I have none to hand to prove it.

Never fear, the culprits will be rooted out and named !


----------



## mmmatron

@cambosheff that's a lovely offer, thanks! I'm a bit tied up at the minute but thanks so much for the offer


----------



## cambosheff

I got the Bobolink as a gift earlier in the year and loved it. I hope its as good for you.

As for the chaff, in the limited time I used mine (a full two days







I only noticed the chaff on roasts on the lighter side and usually it was a given as I could see it still on the beans going in. And it usually only made its self visible right at the end of grinding.


----------



## mmmatron

Weird double post. When's your machine due @cambosheff?


----------



## cambosheff

mmmatron said:


> Weird double post. When's your machine due @cambosheff?


Supposed to be here on the 20th but just heard LM are inundated with commercial orders at the minute and it's been pushed to December. Been offered a used one until mine arrives but not had an arrival date for that yet.


----------



## mmmatron

cambosheff said:


> Supposed to be here on the 20th but just heard LM are inundated with commercial orders at the minute and it's been pushed to December. Been offered a used one until mine arrives but not had an arrival date for that yet.


Ah what a pain!


----------



## iroko

So far I've managed to run a couple of pounds of coffee through grinder which resulted having to tighten the grind from 10 down to 3. I also changed to the vst 15g basket

but have suffered bad chaneling. Hopfully things will get a bit more consistent when I've run some more beans through.


----------



## d_lash

Hello, my new friends.


----------



## MildredM

d_lash said:


> Hello, my new friends.


Yeah! Welcome to the club


----------



## cambosheff

Did you manage to nab one @mmmatron ?


----------



## mmmatron

cambosheff said:


> Did you manage to nab one @mmmatron ?


I did! Very excited. I had to do it the middle of dinner with friends, it caused some bewilderment.


----------



## mmmatron

I'll report back in the summer when it arrives


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> I did! Very excited. I had to do it the middle of dinner with friends, it caused some bewilderment.


Congratulations!!! And they've all gone now!


----------



## Snakehips

mmmatron said:


> I did! Very excited. I had to do it the middle of dinner with friends, it caused some bewilderment.


Well done mmmm.. happy for you !


----------



## dlight

The Monolith produces the most consistent grind. It really makes it obvious that it is all about fresh beans and the quality of the grind.

My Izzo has an issue and I went back to a Breville Double Boiler.

The coffee produced is great, irrespective of the machine used. As long as the machine is consistent, of course.

You'll enjoy the Monolith. Bit of a wait, but the anticipation is a good thing.


----------



## Jony

They all sold within the Hour.


----------



## the_partisan

Any monolith flat + kruve owners here? Would be curious to get some measurements from you once dialled in for V60. Or I would guess most people just use it for espresso?


----------



## cambosheff

I've used mine for v60 the last couple of days. No kruve though I'm afraid.


----------



## the_partisan

cambosheff said:


> I've used mine for v60 the last couple of days. No kruve though I'm afraid.


Did you have any other grinders to compare it to? How does it do?


----------



## cambosheff

Used an EK43 and a Wilfa for a short while. It seems super consistent in grind size and my pours are always within 5 seconds of my target with all other factors the same.

36g coffee - 600ml total water in

100ml in 10 sec stir/bloom.

@30 sec pour in remaining 500ml over 45 seconds.

Complete @ 2:55

I'm grinding at the following:


----------



## the_partisan

Is that the flat or conical?


----------



## cambosheff

Flat


----------



## the_partisan

I ended up pre-ordering a flat for the July 2018 run. Will be a long wait..


----------



## MildredM

the_partisan said:


> I ended up pre-ordering a flat for the July 2018 run. Will be a long wait..


A pre-order Monolith Owners Division member then


----------



## MildredM

I am proud to announce the arrival of the Flat - we have twins!

It is early days but this morning we did a side by side pair of shots. We used the same beans, Square Mile Sweetshop. Probably not the best blend (of 2 beans) to test it on but I know the bean and the coni was set up for it this weekend.

15.2g/40s for the coni, 38s for the flat (inc 8s pi), 34g in the cup.

A more mottled crema with the flat, which I was expecting.



















Yes, there is a perceivable difference in the taste. I am fairly sure there's an extra something in the taste from the flat. As I said though it probably isn't the best bean for a test. I am going to weigh some of the current LSOL Notes next.


----------



## 4085

be surprised if once you get the hang, that the conceal does not have a wider range of tastes every time, unless you are a shandy drinker using lighter beans of course!


----------



## Banjoman

So lovely for you to have twins, each with their own personality!


----------



## MildredM

The LSOL Notes next.

To make things more confusing I put the red cup (flat) on the black saucer. Ian took a sip of both and said he preferred the taste of that one - not knowing it wasn't the conical! I am fairly sure the flat brought out more from this bean but it has to be said they were both stunning!

Not a technical test, I know, and purely an opinion based on taste.


----------



## GingerBen

Are you planning to keep both Mildred? (i'm not fishing to buy one btw lol)


----------



## The Systemic Kid

HG 1 on borrowed time!


----------



## MildredM

GingerBen said:


> Are you planning to keep both Mildred? (i'm not fishing to buy one btw lol)


I honestly don't know. It is too soon to even think about it


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Tick, tock Time for the HG I to go to a new home.


----------



## Jony

Well I will take the flat if you don't want it, whose was it I see the Sub forum was in force again.


----------



## mmmatron

Lovely stuff! From an extraction point of view, with no shot prep, how do they compare?


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> Lovely stuff! From an extraction point of view, with no shot prep, how do they compare?


Flat









Again, I honestly thought it couldn't get any better than the coni but the grounds ARE different from the flat, 'fluffier' and 'lighter', not very good descriptions but that's how it feels.


----------



## 4515

MildredM said:


> I am proud to announce the arrival of the Flat - we have twins!


Don't tell me .... cambosheff is changing his grinder - he must be due a change by now


----------



## J_Fo

These Monolith grinders are pure gorgeousness...

Are they good for lighter roasts?

(Just getting myself primed in case one turns up in For Sale...)


----------



## iroko

That's a very nice trio, I think i'd get a headache trying to decide what one to use first.


----------



## Banjoman

Apologies for being crude(!), but, as these are imported from the US, do you get the privilege of having to pay around 25% of the machine cost and shipping, in VAT and import duty? (I seem to remember that's the deal when you import a banjo from the US - and they cost about the same, or more!)


----------



## MildredM

Yes, you pay import duty and shipping.


----------



## MildredM

I didn't like placing the p/f funnel directly on the grinder base.


----------



## d_lash

MildredM said:


> I didn't like placing the p/f funnel directly on the grinder base.


You have to watch that base. The paint is very soft. Don't let go of the portafilter!


----------



## MildredM

d_lash said:


> You have to watch that base. The paint is very soft. Don't let go of the portafilter!


Yes! I have just had a close examination and see it is slightly different to the finish on the conical. I am going to be so careful now


----------



## Snakehips

A little update following on from my posts #105 and #111.

In the intervening three and a half months I have enjoyed faultless grinding from the Monolith Conical.

I have just removed the top burr assembly and given the grind chamber another clean out... finding a total of 1.71g retained in all the nooks and crannies.

Once the nooks and crannies have 're-stocked' I will no doubt be back to zero wastage, with weight of grounds out = weight of beans in.

The Monolith grind path is short and direct with no gizmos attempting to deal with clumps or discharge static. I do not use RDT as a matter of course but I have found it beneficial with two one or two beans that have been particularly prone to static. Rave Monsoon Malabar was one such bean and the difference RDT made amazed me. Without RDT, grounds were building up in the chute and eventually issuing forth like an extruded sausage. With a couple of light misting sprays the grounds flowed beautifully.


----------



## the_partisan

Has anyone been able to compare the Monolith Flat to EK-43 (besides the Socratic charts, which I don't find particularly useful)? I'm having some second thoughts about my pre-order, as EK-43S will be both slightly cheaper (due to VAT) and I could have it much sooner.


----------



## Jony

You do know it's a NON- Returnable deposit.£385


----------



## coffeechap

Jony said:


> You do know it's a NON- Returnable deposit.£385


Face plant


----------



## Jony

HAHA oops must of been on the grog!


----------



## the_partisan

I know someone who is interested in one, so the deposit wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Jony

the_partisan said:


> I know someone who is interested in one, so the deposit wouldn't be an issue.


ahh ok, but did you not go all out on yours? not like the standard version?


----------



## the_partisan

Jony said:


> ahh ok, but did you not go all out on yours? not like the standard version?


No I didn't add any extras, just a cap.


----------



## Jony

the_partisan said:


> No I didn't add any extras, just a cap.


If it falls through keep me in Mind


----------



## the_partisan

It was for July anyway, I think he's still taking preorders for July? Denis told me he's fine with refunding the order either way. Now just need to decide if I go with Monolith Flat or an EK43s.


----------



## MildredM

How things look here this morning . . .


----------



## MildredM

Ready to face the day ahead


----------



## cambosheff

A setup to cover all eventualities


----------



## iroko

There is picture of a new shorter version of the conical on instagram, about 45mm shorter.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bf_c5pkjI1v/


----------



## MildredM

iroko said:


> There is picture of a new shorter version of the conical on instagram, about 45mm shorter.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bf_c5pkjI1v/


There won't be room left on the dresser soon . . .


----------



## the_partisan

Seen on H-B forums, Kafatek Monolith Flat Max, with 98mm SSP burrs







https://www.home-barista.com/grinders/user-experience-kafatek-monolith-flat-max-t51416.html


----------



## MildredM

Denis strikes again


----------



## coffeechap

You can be sure it will be very well engineered


----------



## mmmatron

Not long!


----------



## Snakehips

mmmatron said:


> Not long!


Great news !

Go find your cheque book.... Denis will have them assembled in no time flat.......... sorry.....conical.


----------



## MildredM

Yippee!! I am SO excited for you @mmmatron


----------



## iroko

Great news, really happy with mine.


----------



## MildredM

Grinding and PuqPress-ing




























Please excuse the lighting! I thought a bit of torch shining would help (it didn't).


----------



## Inspector

I see happy coffee grounds on 45th second of the video lol


----------



## mmmatron

Aargh! The wait is killing me!


----------



## MildredM

Inspector said:


> I see happy coffee grounds on 45th second of the video lol


We are all always smiling here


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> Aargh! The wait is killing me!


hehehe!!! Not long now!! I bet you have checked the tracking a time or two









What an exciting time for you


----------



## mmmatron

MildredM said:


> hehehe!!! Not long now!! I bet you have checked the tracking a time or two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What an exciting time for you


Ha I have! Just had the payment email, shipping on Friday


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> Ha I have! Just had the payment email, shipping on Friday


Oh wow! By this time next week then


----------



## MildredM

Conical grind just now


----------



## MildredM

Pre ordering is opening up again on Saturday 31st March for delivery June 2018 of the flats and July 2018 for conicals.


----------



## Jony

Are they really that good.


----------



## BaggaZee

A quick question: how often is there a round of pre-orders?


----------



## Jony

Maybe every 4 months last time was December. Next is 31 March


----------



## BaggaZee

Phew, fine. I can wait...


----------



## Snakehips

BaggaZee said:


> A quick question: how often is there a round of pre-orders?


Often influenced by US holiday periods affecting intended batch sizes but can be as frequent as two months.

Eg. Aug '17, Oct '17, Dec '17 and now March 18.

If you are interested and haven't already done so then go to the kafatek.com and register your interest. There is no commitment.

You will then receive email notification of impending pre-order dates.


----------



## mmmatron

I'm picking mine up from DHL on Wednesday, too impatient to wait for it being delivered.

I made myself some bean storage out of a bit of mahogany. The holes are just a touch too big though. One test tube broke in transit so it's probs going to drive me crazy.


----------



## Stanic

mmmatron said:


> I'm picking mine up from DHL on Wednesday, too impatient to wait for it being delivered.
> 
> I made myself some bean storage out of a bit of mahogany. The holes are just a touch too big though. One test tube broke in transit so it's probs going to drive me crazy.


muppetry thread please









are you getting a flat or conical?


----------



## mmmatron

Stanic said:


> muppetry thread please
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you getting a flat or conical?


Ha. Going back to conical.


----------



## MildredM

Love your bean cellars







and not long now!!! What an exciting time coming up!


----------



## mmmatron

Blown away!


----------



## MildredM

Well blow back and tell us all about it! What does it feel like now you have actually taken delivery?

Congratulations


----------



## mmmatron

MildredM said:


> Well blow back and tell us all about it! What does it feel like now you have actually taken delivery?
> 
> Congratulations


It's amazing! I've only had chance to pull 2 shots today. The first I did no prep at all, just grind and go, pretty good. The second I did my usual stir, groom and tamp...whoa! What a shot! Super tasty, super balanced, and that's before the burrs have settled in.

The grind adjustment mechanism is a joy to use.

I'm so impressed with this grinder. To be able to single dose, and produce a beautiful mound of fluffy grounds that needs very little shot prep to produce a delicious shot is amazing. It's exactly what I hoped it would be, so I'm a very happy customer!


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> It's amazing! I've only had chance to pull 2 shots today. The first I did no prep at all, just grind and go, pretty good. The second I did my usual stir, groom and tamp...whoa! What a shot! Super tasty, super balanced, and that's before the burrs have settled in.
> 
> The grind adjustment mechanism is a joy to use.
> 
> I'm so impressed with this grinder. To be able to single dose, and produce a beautiful mound of fluffy grounds that needs very little shot prep to produce a delicious shot is amazing. It's exactly what I hoped it would be, so I'm a very happy customer!


It was a given that you'd be happy









It looks great proudly sitting there next to your Vesuvius. Enjoy your coffee today - Happy Easter


----------



## mmmatron

MildredM said:


> It was a given that you'd be happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It looks great proudly sitting there next to your Vesuvius. Enjoy your coffee today - Happy Easter


Thanks M. Happy Easter to you and Ian, hope he's having a good recovery x


----------



## sanadsaad

Whats the total cost of a Monolith flat with shipping and tax once it gets here? Im torn between an EK43 S or save up for this beast.


----------



## Jony

Get the Ek will be here sooner, you just missed the Flat and Conical. It was last night Pre- orders and they went within 20 mins


----------



## aMb

sanadsaad said:


> Whats the total cost of a Monolith flat with shipping and tax once it gets here? Im torn between an EK43 S or save up for this beast.


I was able to get an order in last night for a flat, although they only had 10 conicals and 35 flats so sold out pretty quickly. You'd be waiting until Sept I believe to receive the next batch. Also curious what the price will be, but at least for the moment the FX is 1.40


----------



## mmmatron

sanadsaad said:


> Whats the total cost of a Monolith flat with shipping and tax once it gets here? Im torn between an EK43 S or save up for this beast.


For the conical, the shipping was $150 at kafatek's end then a bill from DHL for £235 for import and VAT.


----------



## sanadsaad

So the flat is actually cheaper than an ek43S after all costs are added. How do they compare? I'm not in a rush to buy a grinder. I'd wait a bit and buy one that feels right to me.


----------



## mmmatron

I can't comment on the flat but the conical is flippin awesome...and I always use light roast beans...


----------



## Jony

Flat and works out at £2200.


----------



## the_partisan

sanadsaad said:


> Whats the total cost of a Monolith flat with shipping and tax once it gets here? Im torn between an EK43 S or save up for this beast.


add 20% VAT and shipping is around $200 I believe. Also need to add import duty. Probably end up around £2250 all in? EK43 S in Germany is around £1900. I'm not sure what the price is in UK.

I bought EK43 S instead since for the same price I could get SSP burrs and didn't have to wait another 6 months. But Monolith is unique in its class of course.


----------



## sanadsaad

MildredM said:


> Grinding and PuqPress-ing


rools: Now I really want the flat.


----------



## MildredM

sanadsaad said:


> rools: Now I really want the flat.


Sign up for pre order notifications, if you haven't already. You have a few weeks to think it over - read up as much as you can on both. I bet you will make a decision before too long


----------



## sanadsaad

MildredM said:


> Sign up for pre order notifications, if you haven't already. You have a few weeks to think it over - read up as much as you can on both. I bet you will make a decision before too long


Signed up yesterday. The research session started with Monolith vs Ek43 and somehow ended up with me settling on Monolith preorder and looking for an Hg1 in the meantime! Slippery slope.......


----------



## ncrc51

Not in the same category as HG1, but I'm happy enough with my ROK waiting for September delivery of a Monolith Conical. The ROK improved quite a bit after only 1 kg or so.


----------



## mmmatron

Conical owners - how much vibration are you getting when you grind? Mine's quite noisy, especially towards the end of the grind.

(I won't tell you what I found when I googled 'vibrating monolith' )


----------



## ashcroc

mmmatron said:


> (I won't tell you what I found when I googled 'vibrating monolith' )


A new record deck?


----------



## Snakehips

mmmatron said:


> Conical owners - how much vibration are you getting when you grind? Mine's quite noisy, especially towards the end of the grind.
> 
> (I won't tell you what I found when I googled 'vibrating monolith' )


Is this with or without the portafilter engaged in the support forks?

I would consider mine to be quiet as far as the grinding process is concerned. However if the forks are not set to nicely snug the pf then there is certainly a chance that the pf will ratttle and would likely need to be hand held whilst grinding. I have mine snug and grind hands free without issue. Can video tomorrow if it helps.


----------



## mmmatron

Snakehips said:


> Is this with or without the portafilter engaged in the support forks?
> 
> I would consider mine to be quiet as far as the grinding process is concerned. However if the forks are not set to nicely snug the pf then there is certainly a chance that the pf will ratttle and would likely need to be hand held whilst grinding. I have mine snug and grind hands free without issue. Can video tomorrow if it helps.


Without PF engaged:






The vibration is quite exaggerated with the pf forks rattling


----------



## coffeechap

That's doesn't sound like it did when I heard it at rave, might be worth an email to denis


----------



## MildredM

We sometimes get that really rattle sound. I don't know whether I associated it with certain beans myself.

Yes, have a word with Denis, if only to reassure yourself it's ok


----------



## mmmatron

coffeechap said:


> That's doesn't sound like it did when I heard it at rave, might be worth an email to denis


That's the plan. I've been meaning to since it arrived.


----------



## Snakehips

The grinder is so well built that I would be most surprised if anything in it's basic structure was likely to rattle. Of course the very nature of the beast is such that you will have the noise and buzz of electric driven rotation and that will vary with bean type. Given the right or rather the wrong conditions, the grinder inevitably has the potential to create vibration.

I could of course be wrong but my feeling is that the rattle is likely associated with the pf and the forks?

I recently changed from grinding into a catch cup to grinding directly into the pf and would make the following comments based on my setup.

The vertical height of the slots in the fork arms is 1mm greater than the thickest part of the pf lugs. So has definite potential to rattle.

If you are happy to hold on to the pf whilst grinding then the pf can be an easy fit in the forks but you will need to hold the pf firmly in place in order to suppress the inevitable rattle.

If you wish to grind hands free, as I did, then the forks need to hold the pf quite firmly and this can only be done if the forks trap the pf by the extremes of the lugs.

I found the depth of the slot in the arms is such that, albeit marginally, the inner face of the arm clamped on the o/d of the top of the VST basket before the pf lugs were firmly engaged.

Trapped by the basket rather than the pf still gave rise to some vibration, which of course can cause an unattended pf to move or even eventually shake out.

So I cut a couple of strips off an old plastic store card and slid them into the bottom of the slots, thus reducing their depth. That was enough for me to set the width to clamp firmly across the the lugs and clear the pf top.

After that it was firm and pretty much rattle free. Being a fusspot and noticing that there was metal to metal contact between the inserted pf and the face of the arm adjuster bracket, I stuck a square of self adhesive foam rubber on said bracket.

I think you can see all an the video below.











Hope that helps.

Otherwise an email to Denis as has already been mentioned.


----------



## MildredM




----------



## MildredM

We had a little vibrating rattle this morning obviously caused by the funnel tinkling on the spout. The mike picked it up more clearly than it actually sounded.


----------



## MildredM

Snakehips said:


> The grinder is so well built that I would be most surprised if anything in it's basic structure was likely to rattle. Of course the very nature of the beast is such that you will have the noise and buzz of electric driven rotation and that will vary with bean type. Given the right or rather the wrong conditions, the grinder inevitably has the potential to create vibration.
> 
> I could of course be wrong but my feeling is that the rattle is likely associated with the pf and the forks?
> 
> I recently changed from grinding into a catch cup to grinding directly into the pf and would make the following comments based on my setup.
> 
> The vertical height of the slots in the fork arms is 1mm greater than the thickest part of the pf lugs. So has definite potential to rattle.
> 
> If you are happy to hold on to the pf whilst grinding then the pf can be an easy fit in the forks but you will need to hold the pf firmly in place in order to suppress the inevitable rattle.
> 
> If you wish to grind hands free, as I did, then the forks need to hold the pf quite firmly and this can only be done if the forks trap the pf by the extremes of the lugs.
> 
> I found the depth of the slot in the arms is such that, albeit marginally, the inner face of the arm clamped on the o/d of the top of the VST basket before the pf lugs were firmly engaged.
> 
> Trapped by the basket rather than the pf still gave rise to some vibration, which of course can cause an unattended pf to move or even eventually shake out.
> 
> So I cut a couple of strips off an old plastic store card and slid them into the bottom of the slots, thus reducing their depth. That was enough for me to set the width to clamp firmly across the the lugs and clear the pf top.
> 
> After that it was firm and pretty much rattle free. Being a fusspot and noticing that there was metal to metal contact between the inserted pf and the face of the arm adjuster bracket, I stuck a square of self adhesive foam rubber on said bracket.
> 
> I think you can see all an the video below.


I hadn't ever thought of you as a fusspot, Snake


----------



## mmmatron

Thanks @Snakehips. Denis suggests closing the pf forks a touch so there's a bit of friction to minimise the rattle.

He thinks the vibration might be from the face plate but it's completely tight. He could also hear something else. He says:

Second sound is the one coming from gearhead, that one is normal and is caused by tight sweeper fit inside of the grinder chamber. I make them tight to they always cleanly sweep the walls. This can be helped by trimming sweeper if you are bothered by this sound.


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> I hadn't ever thought of you as a fusspot, Snake


Well now you know! Is that the only worthwhile thing you managed to glean form that post ?


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> Thanks @Snakehips. Denis suggests closing the pf forks a touch so there's a bit of friction to minimise the rattle.
> 
> He thinks the vibration might be from the face plate but it's completely tight. He could also hear something else. He says:
> 
> Second sound is the one coming from gearhead, that one is normal and is caused by tight sweeper fit inside of the grinder chamber. I make them tight to they always cleanly sweep the walls. This can be helped by trimming sweeper if you are bothered by this sound.


That Denis is a star









When I moved the forks to accommodate the HG-1 shaker to grind into for filter coffee then moved them back this morning for the pf, I seemed to just hit the sweet spot and didn't get any rattle or vibration. I hope making yours a little closer cures this for you.

Just an aside, could the sweeper get a bit of bean trapped causing a different noise, I wonder. Probably way out with that suggestion!


----------



## MildredM

Snakehips said:


> Well now you know! Is that the only worthwhile thing you managed to glean form that post ?


No. I see MrsS has managed to curb your store card spending . . . And I think that's about it really. Just about, anyway


----------



## mmmatron

MildredM said:


> That Denis is a star
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I moved the forks to accommodate the HG-1 shaker to grind into for filter coffee then moved them back this morning for the pf, I seemed to just hit the sweet spot and didn't get any rattle or vibration. I hope making yours a little closer cures this for you.
> 
> Just an aside, could the sweeper get a bit of bean trapped causing a different noise, I wonder. Probably way out with that suggestion!


Sounds much better now there's less pf rattle.

I'd really like to get a look inside the grind chamber but can't undo the machine screws on the top plate.


----------



## MildredM

mmmatron said:


> Sounds much better now there's less pf rattle.
> 
> I'd really like to get a look inside the grind chamber but can't undo the machine screws on the top plate.


Snakehips will be able to help you with this. I am pretty sure he will have had a nosey round in there


----------



## Snakehips

mmmatron said:


> Sounds much better now there's less pf rattle.
> 
> I'd really like to get a look inside the grind chamber but can't undo the machine screws on the top plate.


Those machine screws shouldn't be crazy tight.

Do you have a short length of 15mm copper tubing or something that will give you a bit more leverage?

Don't forget that you will likely want to slacken the top rear screws by half a turn also.


----------



## mmmatron

Snakehips said:


> Those machine screws shouldn't be crazy tight.
> 
> Do you have a short length of 15mm copper tubing or something that will give you a bit more leverage?
> 
> Don't forget that you will likely want to slacken the top rear screws by half a turn also.


They're crazy tight. I'll try some leverage, ta


----------



## aMb

This arrived a couple of days ago ahead of schedule! I've only had a chance to experiment with a few shots to get used to the routine using the supplied coffee, but I've had some good tasting coffee and looking to run some coffees through that I know better. I'm surprised how easy it's been to get dialled in compared to previous grinders that took a long time to get seasoned etc.

My only very small OCD annoyance (given how precisely made the rest of the machine is), being that one of the legs is about 1mm too high/short which is causing it to rock and I've had to place a bit of cardboard under it.

Coming from an E10 I've never tried WDT and I keep leaving an indentation in the coffee when I move away the stick from the basket,

I need to look at some more videos for the technique here. I'm hoping that once it's further seasoned that WDT won't be necessary based on some comments I've read?


----------



## Jony

Oh very nice.


----------



## MildredM

Superb, aMb, and welcome to the club









Odd about the slightly wonky 'leg'.


----------



## AndyZap

I received mine yesterday. Could not tell "the others" how much the grinder costs. Really glad I have found the MODs, so now I know that I am not alone









Currently busy grinding 2 kg of Mystery Mark 8 from Coffee Compass to season the burrs. Really nice coffee for £13/kilo, and my friends/colleagues are very happy to get a free ground coffee bag.

And I have a wonky 'leg' as well. On a positive note, this makes the grinder more human, not some "perfect machine".


----------



## Jony

^^ above as a wonky leg as well. Just Re read it you already know


----------



## MildredM

AndyZap said:


> I received mine yesterday. Could not tell "the others" how much the grinder costs. Really glad I have found the MODs, so now I know that I am not alone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently busy grinding 2 kg of Mystery Mark 8 from Coffee Compass to season the burrs. Really nice coffee for £13/kilo, and my friends/colleagues are very happy to get a free ground coffee bag.
> 
> And I have a wonky 'leg' as well. On a positive note, this makes the grinder more human, not some "perfect machine".


Congratulations


----------



## slamm

aMb said:


> one of the legs is about 1mm too high/short which is causing it to rock





AndyZap said:


> And I have a wonky 'leg' as well.


This must be a first - a couple of Rockers joining a Mod club!


----------



## MildredM

slamm said:


> This must be a first - a couple of Rockers joining a Mod club!


Excellent


----------



## AndyZap

Has anyone experimented with the grind speed? What is the theory behind it, - the slower the better?


----------



## mathof

AndyZap said:


> Has anyone experimented with the grind speed? What is the theory behind it, - the slower the better?


I haven't done any methodical experimentation but I've fiddled about a bit and settled on 400rpm. With light hard beans, any slower seems to take forever to grind, and could even stall - less torque.


----------



## mathof

A rule of thumb would seem to be that the slower the grinder speed, the finer you can grind.

Matt


----------



## Mrboots2u

mathof said:


> A rule of thumb would seem to be that the slower the grinder speed, the finer you can grind.
> 
> Matt


Whats the thinking behind this ? At some point the burrs touch, meaning you are as fine as you can go , irrelevant of speed ?

Or am I missing something ?

Or are you theorising that the slower speed allowed for a more even grind at the finer settings ? If so how are you measuring this ?


----------



## DavecUK

Mrboots2u said:


> Whats the thinking behind this ? At some point the burrs touch, meaning you are as fine as you can go , irrelevant of speed ?
> 
> Or am I missing something ?
> 
> Or are you theorising that the slower speed allowed for a more even grind at the finer settings ? If so how are you measuring this ?


Remember the single bean feeding post (for conicals) from @dsc https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?44594-Calling-all-conic-users

Perhaps this is being applied to influence the thinking. I personally read this comment about speeds with interest and been moved to comment a few times and each time refrained. I have some views as to a flat burr grinders and burr speeds, but as I don't own a Monolith, felt I should keep my views to myself. What I think would be more interesting is of some testing was done at say 400, 600, 800, 1000 rpm (or whatever the max is) to factually check what if any differences there are in grind quality and taste. How it affects the shot, how it affects grind settings....is there a speed above which no changes are observed.

I guess it's something the owners might want to think about doing as it would benefit them all.


----------



## mathof

Mrboots2u said:


> Whats the thinking behind this ? At some point the burrs touch, meaning you are as fine as you can go , irrelevant of speed ?
> 
> Or am I missing something ?
> 
> Or are you theorising that the slower speed allowed for a more even grind at the finer settings ? If so how are you measuring this ?


Actually, I was relying on some observations from Denis Basaric of KafaTec. "He "noticed that grinding speed affects particle size," adding that "equal doses ground at a fixed setting yet different speeds will flow differently, with accompanying taste changes ensuing." (Daily Coffee News) And ds on Home-Barista reported: "When I picked up my Monolith Flat Denis showed me an interesting way he uses this. To super fine tune the grind he adjusts the RPM of the motor, slower to make shot runs faster and faster RPM to make shot run slower."

Matt


----------



## ashcroc

mathof said:


> Actually, I was relying on some observations from Denis Basaric of KafaTec. "He "noticed that grinding speed affects particle size," adding that "equal doses ground at a fixed setting yet different speeds will flow differently, with accompanying taste changes ensuing." (Daily Coffee News) And ds on Home-Barista reported: "When I picked up my Monolith Flat Denis showed me an interesting way he uses this. To super fine tune the grind he adjusts the RPM of the motor, slower to make shot runs faster and faster RPM to make shot run slower."
> 
> Matt


To me that's the exact opposite of the previous statement that a slower grind is finer. Am I missing something?


----------



## MWJB

ashcroc said:


> To me that's the exact opposite of the previous statement that a slower grind is finer. Am I missing something?


The slower the speed the finer the marked setting to achieve equivalent particle size distribution.


----------



## dsc

From the very limiting testing I've done on the ZR (71mm conic), it looked like faster speeds were producing coarser grinds when bean by bean dosing. This would then mean that in order to maintain the same flow one has to grind finer when the speed increases or go coarser when the speed drops. No idea how it works in a normal single dosing scenario, but will do some testing next week.

T.


----------



## DavecUK

dsc said:
 

> From the very limiting testing I've done on the ZR (71mm conic), it looked like faster speeds were producing coarser grinds when bean by bean dosing. This would then mean that in order to maintain the same flow one has to grind finer when the speed increases or go coarser when the speed drops. No idea how it works in a normal single dosing scenario, but will do some testing next week.
> 
> T.


The problem is the OP was referring to a flat burr Monolith....so it's not quite the same.


----------



## dsc

DavecUK said:


> The problem is the OP was referring to a flat burr Monolith....so it's not quite the same.


I know, still it might generate some useful info for conic users, so worth doing









T.


----------



## MildredM

AndyZap said:


> Has anyone experimented with the grind speed? What is the theory behind it, - the slower the better?


I have experimented, yes, and found the sweet spot for mine is at 430. From recollection about 480 seemed to introduce a bitterness that I was pretty certain wasn't there at 430. Over time I have upped and downed it but always end up back at 430. Not very scientific but I'm happy with the results


----------



## dsc

What was wrong below 430?

T.


----------



## MildredM

dsc said:


> What was wrong below 430?
> 
> T.


I seem to remember thinking the taste lacked that wow factor. Kind of flat (no pun intended).


----------



## MildredM

Pre orders for both will open on August 10th for delivery in October.

What's New? A lockless grind fineness adjustment system and all critical parts made in house have been announced in the pre order email release.


----------



## 9719

^^^

Upgrade?


----------



## MildredM

********** said:


> ^^^
> 
> Upgrade?


Haha! NO!!!


----------



## Jony

MildredM said:


> Haha! NO!!!


Not even the Max Flat?


----------



## MildredM

Jony said:


> Not even the Max Flat?


Wrong colour


----------



## Rhys

MildredM said:


> Wrong colour


So you've thought about it


----------



## MildredM

Rhys said:


> So you've thought about it


NO!! No I jolly well haven't *

*might have, a bit


----------



## orge

Sold out in about 3 minutes, I reckon!


----------



## RobW

Is it really such a massive bun fight to get on the list for a Monolith? I really want a grinder upgrade and the Kafatek grinders tick all the boxes but I'm terrible at waiting. I presume the next order window will be around January?

I'm torn between waiting for a Monolith and going for something available right now like a Compak E8 to at least get bigger burrs than my Mazzer Mini B. If it is good enough for Slayer to recommend then it can't be too shabby.

Nobody wanting to sell their current one to upgrade to a Max?


----------



## Dylan

RobW said:


> Is it really such a massive bun fight to get on the list for a Monolith? I really want a grinder upgrade and the Kafatek grinders tick all the boxes but I'm terrible at waiting. I presume the next order window will be around January?
> 
> I'm torn between waiting for a Monolith and going for something available right now like a Compak E8 to at least get bigger burrs than my Mazzer Mini B. If it is good enough for Slayer to recommend then it can't be too shabby.
> 
> Nobody wanting to sell their current one to upgrade to a Max?


You know whats available right now? The Titus in the F/S section. Just sayin


----------



## DavecUK

Someone did try and sell one (brand new) for ages...where were you then


----------



## MildredM

It is worth waiting for! Buy something to tide you over then offer it up for sale when your Monolith arrives. It would end up costing you maybe £200-£400 (edit: depending what you buy, of course. If it's 2nd hand it may not even cost you that).


----------



## RobW

Dylan said:


> You know whats available right now? The Titus in the F/S section. Just sayin


Yes but that makes even a Monolith look cheap!


----------



## mmmatron

I've had a compak E8 and E10, the monolith was definitely worth waiting for. Ease of use and quality are just brilliant.


----------



## Snakehips

News from Kafatek.

Monolith Flat and Conical grinders will be available for pre-oders on *October 6**th** 1:00 PM PST* time

Expected delivery February / March 2019


----------



## MildredM

Beat me to it, Snake. Going to get your name down for a flat then?!


----------



## coffeechap

Yes but no update on the flat max which will be the game changer!


----------



## RobW

I'm subscribed to the email updates so that just dropped into my inbox too. I followed MildredM's advice and bought an E8 with red speed burrs to tide me over until I can snag a Monolith.

As coffeechap says, now it is just a question of whether to wait for a flat max.


----------



## RobW

The website went down on the stroke of 9pm. Still down an hour later. Looks like it got fixed 5-6 hours later from comments on Home Barista forum. I logged on this morning and conicals were still available so I grabbed one. I'd love a max but I expect the demand for those will be even crazier. I've never owned a conical so it'll be interesting to try one.


----------



## mathof

I think you made the right call. From what I have read on the Home-Barista forum, those who own both a flat and a conical report that the results are almost indistinguishable.


----------



## MildredM

They are both outstanding grinders. Not sure why I seem to prefer the flat, it seems to be in use more than the coni. The results in the cup are different, both produce stunningly good results.


----------



## MildredM

RobW said:


> The website went down on the stroke of 9pm. Still down an hour later. Looks like it got fixed 5-6 hours later from comments on Home Barista forum. I logged on this morning and conicals were still available so I grabbed one. I'd love a max but I expect the demand for those will be even crazier. I've never owned a conical so it'll be interesting to try one.


Congratulations!! The wait is excruciatingly exciting!


----------



## RobW

I just got an email update from Denis about the MC3. Some significant upgrades: tilted design, 71mm burrs, sweeper and new switch.


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bsjg_1shpNN/

The waiting for this just got more excruciating!


----------



## Heligan

Next round of pre-orders within the next two weeks, but I notice Denis didn't answer the question about whether the MAX will be included this time.


----------



## mmmatron

do you think they'll do an exchange?


----------



## MildredM

@Snakehips - step away from the keyboard NOW !!


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> @Snakehips - step away from the keyboard NOW !!


You spying on me.... or what ? !!!


----------



## MildredM

Snakehips said:


> You spying om me.... or what ? !!!


No, I just know full well how you can't help yourself when there's upgrades to be snaffled


----------



## MildredM

New orders alert!

Next round of pre-orders for Monolith Flat and Conical grinders will start on Saturday, January 19th at 11 AM PST (click-here to conver to your local time). *Monolith Flat*grinders are expected to start shipping around *start of May*.

*Monolith Conical* grinders are expected to start shipping around *mid-May*.


----------



## RobW

I wonder if owners can answer this question before I bother Denis: if you buy a wooden cap as a customisation I presume the grinder still comes with the default safety cap?


----------



## Snakehips

@RobW Rod, I think you will find that Kafatek supply the safety funnel as standard. The user may, of course, choose to remove the safety funnel, at their own risk.

Wooden caps used to be turned down to fit the inside diameter of the open burr chamber. Mine can sit within the top recess of the safety funnel but does not locate. I would imagine Denis would accommodate you if you wanted a wooden cap to locate on the funnel.


----------



## MildredM

Lids on lids - bit too liddy for me!


----------



## hotmetal

Every lid'll help.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

I really want one of these Monolith's but I really can't decide which I want out of the flat & conical. I've read lots about them and from what I've read there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference. I'm leaning towards the flat but if I'm being honest I think that's because of the variable motor and, well, I prefer the look of it over the conical lol


----------



## Stanic

The new version of the conical looks sweet


----------



## mmmatron

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I really want one of these Monolith's but I really can't decide which I want out of the flat & conical. I've read lots about them and from what I've read there doesn't seem to be a great deal of difference. I'm leaning towards the flat but if I'm being honest I think that's because of the variable motor and, well, I prefer the look of it over the conical lol


I had the same dilemma. It came down to preference in the cup over aesthetics in the end. I switched from compak E10 to E8 and didn't like it anywhere near as much. Couldn't be happier with the conical but the flat does look amazing!


----------



## MildredM

Anyone thinking about ordering, don't forget you will pay import duties. I think mine was around £240 at the time.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

mmmatron said:


> I had the same dilemma. It came down to preference in the cup over aesthetics in the end. I switched from compak E10 to E8 and didn't like it anywhere near as much. Couldn't be happier with the conical but the flat does look amazing!


Did you compare the flat v conical monolith? If so, what differences did you find?

@MildredM I know you've got both Mildred. Can you tell me what differences you've found in daily use and the difference you've noticed in the cup?

Thanks


----------



## mmmatron

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Did you compare the flat v conical monolith? If so, what differences did you find?
> 
> @MildredM I know you've got both Mildred. Can you tell me what differences you've found in daily use and the difference you've noticed in the cup?
> 
> Thanks


I didn't, I saw cambosheff's when I picked up the E8 but he didn't have a machine at the time.

The main difference I found between flat and conical is mouthfeel, I find I prefer those gloopy intense shots you get from a conical. Also, less faff in shot prep. Definitely a personal preference thing.


----------



## MildredM

I do notice a difference but I think it's a purely personal thing. They are both fantastic . . . If pushed and if you said I had to keep one or the other then it would be the flat.


----------



## MildredM

Don't forget the Max! There are likely to be a few available by early summer


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Think I'll try and wait till the Flat Max comes out and see if that offers a valuable difference over the existing variants. I did see a teaser pic from Kafatek on Instagram the other week of 'MC3' on what looked like a base for a grinder. Apparently not the new Flat Max but something else. I wonder what...


----------



## PPapa

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I did see a teaser pic from Kafatek on Instagram the other week of 'MC3' on what looked like a base for a grinder. Apparently not the new Flat Max but something else. I wonder what...


I couldn't wait! That, and couldn't justify the price difference between an EK43s and Flat Max. I still would fancy Flat Max, but the price after tax... 

By the way, MC3 stands for Monolith Conical mk3!


__
http://instagr.am/p/Bsjg_1shpNN/


----------



## ashcroc

PPapa said:


> I couldn't wait! That, and couldn't justify the price difference between an EK43s and Flat Max. I still would fancy Flat Max, but the price after tax...
> 
> By the way, MC3 stands for Monolith Conical mk3!
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bsjg_1shpNN/


Is it just me who hears 'these are not the droids you're looking for' in their head every time they see that pic?


----------



## The Systemic Kid

PPapa said:


> I couldn't wait! That, and couldn't justify the price difference between an EK43s and Flat Max. I still would fancy Flat Max, but the price after tax...


Looked at the Flat Max - with VAT and import tax you're looking at around £3,200 to get it delivered to your door. EK43S is £2,466 but to bring it up to Flat Max spec, you need to install SSP Silver Knight burrs which would add £600 to the price of the EK43S.


----------



## Snakehips

By my reckoning, 40 Conical pre-orders went out of stock in just 10 minutes!

Edit: According to posts on HB, both flats and conicals were sold out within 5 minutes !


----------



## PPapa

The Systemic Kid said:


> Looked at the Flat Max - with VAT and import tax you're looking at around £3,200 to get it delivered to your door. EK43S is £2,466 but to bring it up to Flat Max spec, you need to install SSP Silver Knight burrs which would add £600 to the price of the EK43S.


True enough - you're also getting a grinder with tighter tolerances, more suited to a home user and arguably better looking. It's just the question as to what's reasonable!

I realised I couldn't live with Niche for another few months, so I had no choice! It took around 3 days to get EK43s. I am not sure I will be changing burrs to SSP - I'm sure upgrade fever will be back...


----------



## xpresso

PPapa said:


> I couldn't wait! That, and couldn't justify the price difference between an EK43s and Flat Max. I still would fancy Flat Max, but the price after tax...
> 
> By the way, MC3 stands for Monolith Conical mk3!
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Bsjg_1shpNN/


Just keep dreaming of the Lyn Weber EG-1 -- Almost the same machine upside down.

Jon.


----------



## Heligan

Now that my blood pressure has subsided....Missed out on a Flat, thanks to John Lewis Partnership Card being a tad over zealous. Kafatek site was slow to load, but I got a Flat in my basket just after 7.00pm, at which point there were 37 left. Card was declined, got a text from JLP asking me to confirm if the transaction was genuine, by the time I'd replied, gone back and re-entered my card details (and I had the card no ready to copy and paste to save time) they'd all gone....7.05pm









Will call JLP and ask if there's anything I can do next time but I suspect they'll say not. Perhaps I should have chosen the Paypal option? Would be interested to hear if that worked for other people.


----------



## xpresso

Heligan said:


> Now that my blood pressure has subsided....Missed out on a Flat, thanks to John Lewis Partnership Card being a tad over zealous. Kafatek site was slow to load, but I got a Flat in my basket just after 7.00pm, at which point there were 37 left. Card was declined, got a text from JLP asking me to confirm if the transaction was genuine, by the time I'd replied, gone back and re-entered my card details (and I had the card no ready to copy and paste to save time) they'd all gone....7.05pm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will call JLP and ask if there's anything I can do next time but I suspect they'll say not. Perhaps I should have chosen the Paypal option? Would be interested to hear if that worked for other people.


I've experienced the same thing and after travelling several hundred miles to collect an item, strangely enough I have one bank account where I can be foot loose and fancy free (Within reason) and yet another, like yourself leaving you feeling let down, I took the bank to task and typically they stated they were only looking after my money, what the hell they get to use it before I do, BUT they did suggest if ever in the future I intend to issue a payment for an amount unusual to the norm on that account, just notify us beforehand .............. I am sorry for your loss.

Jon.


----------



## Heligan

xpresso said:


> I am sorry for your loss.


Thank you! I am taking the view now that it wasn't meant to be. First world problems and all that, anyway.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

xpresso said:


> I've experienced the same thing and after travelling several hundred miles to collect an item, strangely enough I have one bank account where I can be foot loose and fancy free (Within reason) and yet another, like yourself leaving you feeling let down, I took the bank to task and typically they stated they were only looking after my money, what the hell they get to use it before I do, BUT they did suggest if ever in the future I intend to issue a payment for an amount unusual to the norm on that account, just notify us beforehand .............. I am sorry for your loss.
> 
> Jon.


This happened to me last year, Jon, when I was trying to buy a couple of iPhones on release day. I called my bank before hand to notify them of a high value purchase about to be made, I still got my card refused!

I called them after to complain and basically they told me, there's nothing I can do as it's all do to the fraud prevention team. I bank with Lloyd's btw.

Tony


----------



## iroko

@Heligan, when I ordered my conical I used PayPal with no issues.


----------



## Heligan

iroko said:


> @Heligan, when I ordered my conical I used PayPal with no issues.


Thanks @iroko that's good to hear. Can I ask whether that was using a linked bank account, credit card or PayPal balance? If I use a linked credit card I wonder if the same could happen - PayPal will contact the card issuer and they will block the transaction because it's outside my normal spending pattern.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Heligan said:


> Thanks @iroko that's good to hear. Can I ask whether that was using a linked bank account, credit card or PayPal balance? If I use a linked credit card I wonder if the same could happen - PayPal will contact the card issuer and they will block the transaction because it's outside my normal spending pattern.


You can pay from a PayPal balance with no problems whatsoever. If I was you and what I would do is, a couple of days before the grinders at to be up for grabs, just transfer money from your bank account to your PayPal account. That way it's in there ready to go...


----------



## ashcroc

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> You can pay from a PayPal balance with no problems whatsoever. If I was you and what I would do is, a couple of days before the grinders at to be up for grabs, just transfer money from your bank account to your PayPal account. That way it's in there ready to go...


You don't have to pay the full amount with a credit card to get the protection (for the full amount) so it'd be good practice not to have enough in your PP balance to cover the grinder.

Laissez les bons temps rouler


----------



## Heligan

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> You can pay from a PayPal balance with no problems whatsoever. If I was you and what I would do is, a couple of days before the grinders at to be up for grabs, just transfer money from your bank account to your PayPal account. That way it's in there ready to go...


Thanks @Deeez Nuuutz, that does seem to be the way to go. Now I just have to wait another 3-4 months for the next pre-orders....


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Heligan said:


> Thanks @Deeez Nuuutz, that does seem to be the way to go. Now I just have to wait another 3-4 months for the next pre-orders....


You and me both if I go with a Monolith. I won't be going for the Flat Max, I didn't realise the price it would be, so for me it's between the monolith conical, Flat or an EK43S...

I'm strictly a single doser though which is why I've been leaning more towards the Monoliths...


----------



## Snakehips

Sadly, a fair few tales of woe and disappointment.

Did anybody actually manage to bag one?


----------



## Fadamaque

Yeah, I managed to snag a MonCon, so pretty excited, cannot wait until may arrives!


----------



## xpresso

Fadamaque said:


> Yeah, I managed to snag a MonCon, so pretty excited, cannot wait until may arrives!


Hello F.

Its makes for interesting content of discussion if people are aware of what equipment you have and what direction you intend to go, from what to where, even if its espresso/coffee milk courtesy of friends, your own method whether filter or cafetiere, Lever ........

Pop it into your profile, the genuine people who will have helpful responses will far outweigh those who are somewhat blinkered and base their own achievements, selections as the only goal to pursue.

Jon.


----------



## 4085

xpresso said:


> Hello F.
> 
> Pop it into your profile, the genuine people who will have helpful responses will far outweigh those who are somewhat blinkered and base their own achievements, selections as the only goal to pursue.
> 
> Jon.


So to be quite clear, unless you have a profile telling everybody what kit you have, you are not genuine, or have I misunderstood?


----------



## Fadamaque

Thanks for the reply, and sorry for my english, it is not my native tongue. I tried to update my profile, hoping that it shows the current gear I am using as per now.

I have been single dosing a Mazzer SJ for about a years time, with OK results in the cup. I also have a Londinium 1 (bought it right before the "R" update, so a bit miffed about missing out on the rotary pump) which I am quite pleased with. Although I am pretty happy about the results I am getting, I find it to be a bit of a pain to single dose the Mazzer, with the retention and whatnot. I tried to get in on the last presale of the Monolith conical about half a year ago, to no avail. Luckily I got in this time, and this time it seems that the mk3 has some useful upgrades to it, as well as a cosmetic update that i liked.


----------



## Fadamaque

I am sure that "xpresso" didnt mean that I am not "genuine" for not filling in the forum profile.


----------



## xpresso

dfk41 said:


> So to be quite clear, unless you have a profile telling everybody what kit you have, you are not genuine, or have I misunderstood?


So completely misunderstood David - From my point of view from a relative newcomer, the knowledge of peoples current equipment as I see it helps as to the level of help and assistance.

Sadly I appear on occasions to have come across since joining those who never went through a learning curve and being unfamiliar sadly attracts a sense of distaste.

Jon


----------



## Snakehips

Fadamaque said:


> Yeah, I managed to snag a MonCon, so pretty excited, cannot wait until may arrives!


Well done you! I cannot imagine that you will be in any way disappointed.


----------



## 4085

xpresso said:


> So completely misunderstood David - From my point of view from a relative newcomer, the knowledge of peoples current equipment as I see it helps as to the level of help and assistance.
> 
> Sadly I appear on occasions to have come across since joining those who never went through a learning curve and being unfamiliar sadly attracts a sense of distaste.
> 
> Jon


No problem on my part. because I misunderstood, I read it incorrectly so many thanks for clearing that up for me!


----------



## xpresso

Fadamaque said:


> I am sure that "xpresso" didnt mean that I am not "genuine" for not filling in the forum profile.


Absolutely correct and welcome on my part to the club.

Jon.


----------



## iroko

Heligan said:


> Thanks @iroko that's good to hear. Can I ask whether that was using a linked bank account, credit card or PayPal balance? If I use a linked credit card I wonder if the same could happen - PayPal will contact the card issuer and they will block the transaction because it's outside my normal spending pattern.


 @Heligan I only have a linked credit card on paypal, the transaction was way outside my normal spending pattern with no issues.


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

iroko said:


> @Heligan I only have a linked credit card on paypal, the transaction was way outside my normal spending pattern with no issues.


It's down to who you bank with. Some banks/credit card companies are stricter than others I believe.


----------



## RobW

My MC3 with TiN coated burrs landed yesterday. I really like the design updates. So far I've only run about 1kg through to season it. Denis advises another kg but even now the retention is 0.1g or less. Grinds look very consistent and no clumping. Still dialling in at the moment but pretty good results so far. Definitely needs WDT for now.

What containers do people use for weighing out beans? If I RDT on a cup or glass the beans tend to stick to the side which makes pouring them into the funnel a faff.

Not sure if the MC3 is supposed to have an LED on the switch? No light on mine.

Does anyone know if the rubber feet are stuck on? I have a slight wobble so I need to adjust one of the feet.


----------



## MildredM

RobW said:


> My MC3 with TiN coated burrs landed yesterday. I really like the design updates. So far I've only run about 1kg through to season it. Denis advises another kg but even now the retention is 0.1g or less. Grinds look very consistent and no clumping. Still dialling in at the moment but pretty good results so far. Definitely needs WDT for now.
> 
> What containers do people use for weighing out beans? If I RDT on a cup or glass the beans tend to stick to the side which makes pouring them into the funnel a faff.
> 
> Not sure if the MC3 is supposed to have an LED on the switch? No light on mine.
> 
> Does anyone know if the rubber feet are stuck on? I have a slight wobble so I need to adjust one of the feet.


Congratulations 

I don't RDT and don't experience any static in my (old) Conical









Looks so neat without the knurled adjustment tightening knob!

No long signatures on TapAtalk


----------



## Jony

Very Noice.


----------



## Snakehips

RobW said:


> My MC3 with TiN coated burrs landed yesterday. I really like the design updates. So far I've only run about 1kg through to season it. Denis advises another kg but even now the retention is 0.1g or less. Grinds look very consistent and no clumping. Still dialling in at the moment but pretty good results so far. Definitely needs WDT for now.
> 
> What containers do people use for weighing out beans? If I RDT on a cup or glass the beans tend to stick to the side which makes pouring them into the funnel a faff.
> 
> Not sure if the MC3 is supposed to have an LED on the switch? No light on mine.
> 
> Does anyone know if the rubber feet are stuck on? I have a slight wobble so I need to adjust one of the feet.


Nice one Rob... Enjoy!

I weigh my beans into the soft measuring jug that I later use to split my foamed milk. Prior to that, I used a cup-sized Tupperware base.

On the very rare occasions that I have needed RDT, both of the above have proved ok for me. Using the jug, you can give the beans a good swirl before pouring them into the hopper.









There is no LED on the switch of the previous style conical.

Assuming that the base design has remained the same then the rubber feet are bonded to the inset perspex of the base.


----------



## iroko

I just use a small yogurt pot or similar food stuff from a supermarket. I have to RTD on my conical all the time, I was hoping I wouldn't have to by now.


----------



## mmmatron

I use one of these baby weening pots for weighing, they're just the right size. think I have about 300 lying around.

Congrats...It looks awesome!


----------



## orge

Hi,

Looks great!










We don't bother with RDT on our 6-8 month old conical. Pretty sure that in/out weights were within 0.1g when I last felt the need to check!









Same on the flat but I do find my Lyn Weber HG-One benefits from it.

Have bean cellars for dosing and pouring but they wouldn't be good as a container for RDT:

https://lynweber.com/accessories/bean-cellars-glass/

J


----------



## Ivan89R

hello everyone, I introduce myself in the club, for it is a pleasure ; I am writing from Italy; this is my setting even if soon I will buy an espresso machine :


__
http://instagr.am/p/BwaA6I2HqaZ/


----------



## Snakehips

@Ivan89R Welcome!


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Welcome @Ivan89R


----------



## MildredM

Welcome to the forum and thank you for sharing your setup here - some great kit you have there


----------



## xpresso

And a warm welcome to the forum from me, looks like you have all you need for a decent coffee drink and well to hand, a busy area.

The Mono looks well 'Black'.

Jon.


----------



## MildredM

It seems a while since this thread had an update


----------



## igm45

MildredM said:


> It seems a while since this thread had an update


Do you know something we don't?


----------



## Jony

It's Tizzwazz day


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Flat Max and Conicals went on pre-order this morning.

No standard Flats though as Dennis can't make all 3 simultaneously.

Shame really, I was seriously considering a Flat.


----------



## MildredM

igm45 said:


> Do you know something we don't?


Not *yet*


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

MildredM said:


> Not *yet*


I bet you pre-ordered a Max!!!


----------



## igm45

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Flat Max and Conicals went on pre-order this morning.
> 
> No standard Flats though as Dennis can't make all 3 simultaneously.
> 
> Shame really, I was seriously considering a Flat.


What's a Flat max?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

igm45 said:


> What's a Flat max?


Like the Flat's bigger brother on steroids!









Here:

https://www.kafatek.com/index.php/monolith-flat-max/


----------



## igm45

I see what you mean 98mm burrs!!

That is madness...

I do wonder at which stage the law of diminishing returns becomes indiscernible.


----------



## Jony

ohh you poor man.


----------



## igm45

Jony said:


> ohh you poor man.


??


----------



## Jony

Was a joke. not cash poor.


----------



## dsc

Question for all flat burr Kafatek users, what speeds do you normally run yours at?

T.


----------



## coffeechap

I used mi e at 600rpm and got great results


----------



## dsc

I thought they only go to 400rpm or is that just the Flat Max?

T.


----------



## MildredM

My flat is at around 450rpm


----------



## MildredM

All gone in 3 minutes, both conic and Max.


----------



## Cycleandespresso

Couldn't believe it. I got caught up with a new baby for two min and was all gone!


----------



## Chap-a-chino

MildredM said:


> All gone in 3 minutes, both conic and Max.


The reason they retain their value so well.


----------



## MildredM

Chap-a-chino said:


> The reason they retain their value so well.


Indeed


----------



## Planter

So who got an order in?

Or will they all be surprises for another forum post....


----------



## Snakehips

Not me!

I eventually got in with, supposedly, 2 still in stock..... it took my payment details..... then gave a hearty chuckle and said 'sorry your basket is EMPTY'


----------



## Planter

Snakehips said:


> Not me!
> 
> I eventually got in with, supposedly, 2 still in stock..... it took my payment details..... then gave a hearty chuckle and said 'sorry your basket is EMPTY'


Gutted. Wonder when the next batch will be open for pre-order.


----------



## Jony

Snakehips said:


> Not me!
> 
> I eventually got in with, supposedly, 2 still in stock..... it took my payment details..... then gave a hearty chuckle and said 'sorry your basket is EMPTY'


Snap said basket empty but 48 in stock.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Jony said:


> Snap said basket empty but 48 in stock.


Just out of interest... What isn't sage an upgrade from


----------



## Power Freak

EDIT: I originally made a post - thought it best to retract until I give Kafatek a chance to respond.

I emailed Denis/Kafatek and got a completely stock response, didn't even bother to use my name in the reply... I find this in bad taste for a luxury product at this price, this is a $3k grinder the total market size is pretty small let's be honest.

There was a link to the Kafatek forums where there's a discussion on how to "improve" the process - suggesting a raffle system (I'm not sure the etiquette for linking to other forums so I won't link). I have posted there with my recommendations.

Original Post:

When the clock struck 10pm (UK time) I rushed to the kafatek website to try and snag the flat max grinder. As expected the website was sluggish owing to the number of people loading the page, eventually I managed to force a grinder into my basket - into the "enter card details" page and fired it off&#8230; A couple of seconds later an automated text message from my bank telling me my card was locked for "suspicious activity". The page reloads and I enter details for a different card - by this point the grinders are sold out, no grinder for me.

I have to say this is, without a doubt, the absolute worst, most stressful (almost) purchasing experience for a "luxury" item I've ever encountered. I have dealt with high end bespoke manufacturers and retailers in a variety of spheres (musical instruments, luxury watches, fashion, 3-star restaurants, etc.) They all "get" that providing a quality product at their price-point is a given, the thing that matters is making the customer feel like a King (or Queen).

Frankly I don't think I'll bother trying to play the lottery to "win" one of these grinders again while the ordering system shows a complete lack of respect to potential customers.

"I don't see how somebody being able to take a product out of my basket is in any way acceptable. Imagine going to the store and picking up the last loaf of bread, the cashier scans it and puts it in you bag, as you're counting out change another cashier then takes the bread to sell to somebody who enters the store after you!"


----------



## MildredM

Some recent pics . . .


----------



## xpresso

Power Freak said:


> EDIT: I originally made a post - thought it best to retract until I give Kafatek a chance to respond.
> 
> I emailed Denis/Kafatek and got a completely stock response, didn't even bother to use my name in the reply... I find this in bad taste for a luxury product at this price, this is a $3k grinder the total market size is pretty small let's be honest.
> 
> There was a link to the Kafatek forums where there's a discussion on how to "improve" the process - suggesting a raffle system (I'm not sure the etiquette for linking to other forums so I won't link). I have posted there with my recommendations.
> 
> Original Post:
> 
> When the clock struck 10pm (UK time) I rushed to the kafatek website to try and snag the flat max grinder. As expected the website was sluggish owing to the number of people loading the page, eventually I managed to force a grinder into my basket - into the "enter card details" page and fired it off&#8230; A couple of seconds later an automated text message from my bank telling me my card was locked for "suspicious activity". The page reloads and I enter details for a different card - by this point the grinders are sold out, no grinder for me.
> 
> I have to say this is, without a doubt, the absolute worst, most stressful (almost) purchasing experience for a "luxury" item I've ever encountered. I have dealt with high end bespoke manufacturers and retailers in a variety of spheres (musical instruments, luxury watches, fashion, 3-star restaurants, etc.) They all "get" that providing a quality product at their price-point is a given, the thing that matters is making the customer feel like a King (or Queen).
> 
> Frankly I don't think I'll bother trying to play the lottery to "win" one of these grinders again while the ordering system shows a complete lack of respect to potential customers.
> 
> "I don't see how somebody being able to take a product out of my basket is in any way acceptable. Imagine going to the store and picking up the last loaf of bread, the cashier scans it and puts it in you bag, as you're counting out change another cashier then takes the bread to sell to somebody who enters the store after you!"


It would probably have helped if you had notifies your bank of your intentions to possibly pay for something outside the UK/America and I'm convinced you would not have encountered a problem.

All to do with money laundering I'm afraid.

Jon.


----------



## Power Freak

xpresso said:


> It would probably have helped if you had notifies your bank of your intentions to possibly pay for something outside the UK/America and I'm convinced you would not have encountered a problem.
> 
> All to do with money laundering I'm afraid.
> 
> Jon.


I regularly purchase from the US without a hitch, this is the first such failure I've had paying for anything within the past 18 months.

Regardless that is not something one should have to do, when something is in your basket/being paid for the item should be locked down (for a short period of time) - I go back to my loaf of bread analogy.

In fairness Kafatek do seem interested in fixing the (severely) broken system, hopefully it'll end up fairer and more suitable for a product of its price.


----------



## RobW

Power Freak said:


> I regularly purchase from the US without a hitch, this is the first such failure I've had paying for anything within the past 18 months.
> 
> Regardless that is not something one should have to do, when something is in your basket/being paid for the item should be locked down (for a short period of time) - I go back to my loaf of bread analogy.
> 
> In fairness Kafatek do seem interested in fixing the (severely) broken system, hopefully it'll end up fairer and more suitable for a product of its price.


It is pretty much a one man band. You can't expect him to have the sort of sophisticated e-commerce queuing system that big companies have. Next time use PayPal, that worked for me in the last round when I got a Conical. I also make plenty of purchases from the States on my credit card but you can see how such large value transactions might arouse suspicion.

Hopefully he will implement an easier and fairer system. At the moment the system is made worse by people opening multiple browser windows and frantically refreshing all of them - that just makes more traffic.

One day I would love a Max to go alongside my MC3 but I'd happily pay a small deposit and then sit on a waiting list for a couple of years. Pros and cons to every system though.


----------



## MildredM




----------



## xpresso

Power Freak said:


> I regularly purchase from the US without a hitch, this is the first such failure I've had paying for anything within the past 18 months.
> 
> Regardless that is not something one should have to do, when something is in your basket/being paid for the item should be locked down (for a short period of time) - I go back to my loaf of bread analogy.
> 
> In fairness Kafatek do seem interested in fixing the (severely) broken system, hopefully it'll end up fairer and more suitable for a product of its price.


I've experienced very recently being locked out of my account while in France, I spent three 15 minute sessions on the phone in an attempt to get it resolved ending with a promise of them contacting me, it was frustrating just waiting for a call that eventually came eighteen hours later, during which time I used an account we have with another bank that given the infrequency of using it, a hic cup was resolved within ten minutes and the security on the second account is more robust and yet easier to solve an issue without needing to sit and wait for ma call.

I'm not one for changing and moving banks but that experience is tipping the scales.

Jon.


----------



## Power Freak

RobW said:


> It is pretty much a one man band. You can't expect him to have the sort of sophisticated e-commerce queuing system that big companies have. Next time use PayPal, that worked for me in the last round when I got a Conical. I also make plenty of purchases from the States on my credit card but you can see how such large value transactions might arouse suspicion.
> 
> Hopefully he will implement an easier and fairer system. At the moment the system is made worse by people opening multiple browser windows and frantically refreshing all of them - that just makes more traffic.
> 
> One day I would love a Max to go alongside my MC3 but I'd happily pay a small deposit and then sit on a waiting list for a couple of years. Pros and cons to every system though.


I have bought from many "one man band" operations in other spheres, this is by far the worst system I've ever seen for a product of the price.

To be clear I'm not saying Denis thought about this and is deliberately messing people around (far from it... anybody who cares that much about product quality would create a system like that knowingly) I'm just saying it is a huge oversight given how demand for the product has grown. As I alluded to in my previous post - while the product is "hot" you can get away with a purchasing experience like this but leave too many unsuccessful customers unhappy and they'll move onto the next "must have new toy".

A solution does not require an expensive e-commerce platform - as you state a waiting list is perfectly valid solution that is fair to those involved. If it takes 10 years for you to purchase an item you only have yourself to blame for not signing up sooner, not a completely random system that requires all the stars to align.


----------



## MildredM

Just adding this here . . .


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

I must say that I'm a bit worried about all this fiasco in trying to purchase a Kafetek grinder.

I really want a flat, I've looked at all the options and have made my mind up that that's the grinder I want.

I was intending to purchase one from this latest window but then got the email that only conicals and the max was being produced this time round. I'm disappointed, but with the frequency of pre-order windows coming up and the ever increasing difficulties of actually trying to get one ordered I'm worried that by the time I do actually manage to order one, I'll be in my 60's!

The thing is, if I experience too much of this nonsense then I'll just think sod it and buy a EK instead...


----------



## Tiny tamper

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> The thing is, if I experience too much of this nonsense then I'll just think sod it and buy a EK instead...


 @Deeez Nuuutz

I have been pondering with the same dilemma, if you genuinely can't get a mono or be arsed trying to win the lotto that is the ordering system then we're are you left? What's the realistic alternative say for some who wanted the max and a conical from kafatek?

You can to the conclusion that these grinders were for you the best you could get and now you find out you got a snowballs of getting one never mind both.

If you look about there's not alot out there at this quality of build and in cup performance out there that's new if anything, which makes me think you are at the rock n hard place if they are your must have as there really isn't anything that's similar to them in footprint, quality etc.

,For me they are the goldilocks of grinders so I'm doomed to waiting for them.


----------



## MildredM

They come up on H-B pretty often, there were 3 on there when I last looked, and no doubt there will be the odd one for sale here on the forum. It has only really been this last opening that has had this level of interest. I remember on one opening last year it took until the next day for them to all sell, and a few hours for them all to sell on another.

You can't always get what you want . . .

But if you try sometime you find

You get what you need.


----------



## Power Freak

Tiny tamper said:


> If you look about there's not alot out there at this quality of build and in cup performance out there that's new if anything, which makes me think you are at the rock n hard place if they are your must have as there really isn't anything that's similar to them in footprint, quality etc.


That's the thing, getting something that is both top cup quality and counter friendly... An EK well aligned with SSP burrs would likely be indistinguishable in the cup (some might argue better owing to a narrower particle distribution owing to higher RPM) but it's having something like that in the kitchen! The compak r120 makes super tasty drinks too but that is even worse for form factor!

The only other real option I can think of is the EG-1 from Lyn Weber.

I think it will get easier though, the potential buyers of a $3k grinder are pretty small and Kafatek is only really talked about on forums... Plus there's bound to be something rivaling it or some research will be published that grinding with the burrs upside down set in jelly produces the best espresso grinds and everybody will flock to the new jelly grinders!


----------



## AndyZap

To be fair to Dennis (Kafatek) he does a good job for the grinder price in the USD terms. This is the taxes, shipping and the post-brexit exchange rate which makes the grinders so expensive in the UK. Re the ordering: if you start 5 min before "the time" and have a reliable internet connection, you have a very high change to put the grinder in the shopping basket. Remember to press (in Chrome) F5 or Shift-F5 to refresh the page while waiting for the sale to open. Then use Paypal (esp linked to your bank account, not the credit card) to pay the deposit - I have not heard about Paypal transactions been rejected.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Power Freak said:


> That's the thing, getting something that is both top cup quality and counter friendly... An EK well aligned with SSP burrs would likely be indistinguishable in the cup (some might argue better owing to a narrower particle distribution owing to higher RPM) but it's having something like that in the kitchen! The compak r120 makes super tasty drinks too but that is even worse for form factor!
> 
> The only other real option I can think of is the EG-1 from Lyn Weber.
> 
> I think it will get easier though, the potential buyers of a $3k grinder are pretty small and Kafatek is only really talked about on forums... Plus there's bound to be something rivaling it or some research will be published that grinding with the burrs upside down set in jelly produces the best espresso grinds and everybody will flock to the new jelly grinders!


Demand outstrips supply at the moment, I think the last lot totalled 50 grinders (not sure which types ). People wanna buy it worldwide so if he couldnt get at least 50 people interested then it wouldn't be viable.

The same frustration would appear to be surfacing on the Yank forums too. In the end there are plenty of other grinders that will make really tasty coffee.

They may not function exactly the same or be built to alignment within one atom, or have the noise around them of the Kateteks but ......

There will always be demand for something that people perceive as being the best (same in hi fi, cameras etc etc).

I am not aiming this at you, but sometimes this seems to stop people enjoying the end result of what they have and what it can do.

There are threads relating to the Kafekteks etc where people are convinced unless you have one of the Max's, that any light roasted coffee will be undrinkable.

Sometimes I think there is more difference in cups made and coffee experience as a result of the quality coffee used and the care put into preparing the basket than the actual grinder.


----------



## Power Freak

Mrboots2u said:


> Demand outstrips supply at the moment, I think the last lot totalled 50 grinders (not sure which types ). People wanna buy it worldwide so if he couldnt get at least 50 people interested then it wouldn't be viable.
> 
> The same frustration would appear to be surfacing on the Yank forums too. In the end there are plenty of other grinders that will make really tasty coffee.
> 
> They may not function exactly the same or be built to alignment within one atom, or have the noise around them of the Kateteks but ......
> 
> There will always be demand for something that people perceive as being the best (same in hi fi, cameras etc etc).
> 
> I am not aiming this at you, but sometimes this seems to stop people enjoying the end result of what they have and what it can do.
> 
> There are threads relating to the Kafekteks etc where people are convinced unless you have one of the Max's, that any light roasted coffee will be undrinkable.
> 
> Sometimes I think there is more difference in cups made and coffee experience as a result of the quality coffee used and the care put into preparing the basket than the actual grinder.


Agreed that other things can make more of an impression (I'd add water quality to your list) in cup quality.

But if you're in the fortunate enough position to be able to spend upwards of $3k on a grinder equally you're right to have certain expectations and not compromise as much as you would at a lower price point. Some of these are not even related to coffee - it's just how it makes you feel. I've spent more a watch than I probably should have, it offers absolutely zero benefit compared to a more moderately priced time-piece but looking at it makes me smile.

I think the comments of those who are unhappy are being much maligned - I think the majority are not sour grapes about not getting a grinder, nobody has a right to own any piece of equipment (on the whole... admittedly there are some that appear to want Denis to near kill himself building grinders round the clock.) The way I see it the frustration is boiled down to 2 separate causes:

1) The pre-sale process used in the previous batch not being up to the job - Denis is free to do as he pleases and sell to who he likes, but he risks turning people away for life if something doesn't change (I have seen this story play out many many times). Maybe he is fine with this and only plans to build so many and then close up shop in which case there is no problem. If he wants to do this longer term it is good people are showing their frustration now (and based on the Kafatek forums something will change, everybody will have their view on what the best way to do it is but it should alleviate some of the problems with the last pre-sale).

2) The lack of viable alternatives - This is not a Kafatek issue at all. If you want big well aligned burrs in a package that doesn't take up the space of a commercial style grinder what are your choices? The top-end home barista market is hugely under-served currently (I keep hoping I'm wrong about this but so far nobody has been able to offer an alternative to a flat/max apart from an eg-1). Yes you can make good coffee on almost any piece of equipment these days but if you're willing/wanting to spend top dollar anything else is only ever going to be seen as a stop-gap... If you're looking to buy a ferrari somebody saying "the new fiesta drives great!", while true, doesn't really offer a viable alternate.

I don't see either of these frustrations as being particularly unreasonable.

At the end of the day this is an indulgence, when people voice "frustration" it is not real frustration - nobody is losing sleep over it (well maybe they are because of the caffeine, but that's a different story).


----------



## MildredM

Ready to go to some new lucky owners


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

MildredM said:


> Ready to go to some new lucky owners


Can't wait to get mine... one day...


----------



## MildredM

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Can't wait to get mine... one day...


I can post you one!

Ohhhh you didn't mean a towel


----------



## Rhys

MildredM said:


> Ready to go to some new lucky owners


Yes please, mine doesn't work properly... Oh you meant a towel


----------



## arang

MildredM said:


> Ready to go to some new lucky owners


Great to know! Looking forward to receiving another one from Denis soon!


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

MildredM said:


> I can post you one!
> 
> Ohhhh you didn't mean a towel


I was under the impression that I wasn't special enough to get one till I achieved my Monolith nirvana?!


----------



## Jony

That is true.


----------



## MildredM

Mind the gap ?


----------



## Jony

Cryptic NOT


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Mind the gap ?
> 
> View attachment 155


 Now I wonder what would fit in there ..


----------



## igm45

MildredM said:


> Mind the gap
> 
> [IMG alt="2D4BED5F-1D57-4AB5-A3ED-BC248BFC2526.thumb.jpeg.66266ec87c774532768fbbf899676a17.jpeg" data-fileid="155"]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk//coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" data-ratio="77" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_05/2D4BED5F-1D57-4AB5-A3ED-BC248BFC2526.thumb.jpeg.66266ec87c774532768fbbf899676a17.jpeg[/IMG]


You manage to bag a max?

Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk


----------



## MildredM

igm45 said:


> You manage to bag a max?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H930 using Tapatalk


 I thought you'd never ask . . . ?


----------



## Chap-a-chino

MildredM said:


> I thought you'd never ask . . . ?


 Blooming heck - you kept that quiet!!!!!


----------



## Chap-a-chino

Chap-a-chino said:


> Blooming heck - you kept that quiet!!!!!


 I reckon the next Forum Day should be a Kafatek Grinder event round at yours MildredM!


----------



## Hasi

ohh! opcorn:


----------



## Hasi

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I must say that I'm a bit worried about all this fiasco in trying to purchase a Kafetek grinder.
> 
> I really want a flat, I've looked at all the options and have made my mind up that that's the grinder I want.
> 
> I was intending to purchase one from this latest window but then got the email that only conicals and the max was being produced this time round. I'm disappointed, but with the frequency of pre-order windows coming up and the ever increasing difficulties of actually trying to get one ordered I'm worried that by the time I do actually manage to order one, I'll be in my 60's!
> 
> The thing is, if I experience too much of this nonsense then I'll just think sod it and buy a EK instead...


 ZM, ZM, ZM :exit:


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

MildredM said:


> Mind the gap  [IMG alt="2D4BED5F-1D57-4AB5-A3ED-BC248BFC2526.thumb.jpeg.66266ec87c774532768fbbf899676a17.jpeg" data-fileid="155"]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk//coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" data-ratio="77" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_05/2D4BED5F-1D57-4AB5-A3ED-BC248BFC2526.thumb.jpeg.66266ec87c774532768fbbf899676a17.jpeg[/IMG]


I KNEW IT !!!! 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rhys

To me that's a cat-sized space.. Though with Minty around I'm sure that space would soon increase as things are sent flying [IMG alt=":classic_laugh:" data-emoticon=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk//coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" srcset="<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=":classic_laugh:" width="20" data-src="<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/laugh.png[/IMG]


----------



## duc996bp

I have been considering an upgrade to my grinder, it needs to be a single-dose unit, well engineered, suitable for grinding anything from espresso to pour-over, and obviously makes a good brew!

I have considered a EK43, however the more I read the more i'm put off by all the faff of aligning the burrs and even having to upgrade them, then there is issue of it not being the best choice if I want to grind from espresso to pour-over.

Is the Monolith flat a good choice for what I want? i.e. is it good for espresso - pour-over??

Ordering and getting one I realise is an issue.


----------



## MildredM

It would definitely be a good option @duc996bp but as you say, it's getting hold of one. They sometimes come up second hand, more so on the H-B forum  I know a good few people who have gone for the EK but don't rule out some of the other too end grinders of which maybe @coffeechap can chip in with some info about


----------



## coffeechap

duc996bp said:


> I have been considering an upgrade to my grinder, it needs to be a single-dose unit, well engineered, suitable for grinding anything from espresso to pour-over, and obviously makes a good brew!
> 
> I have considered a EK43, however the more I read the more i'm put off by all the faff of aligning the burrs and even having to upgrade them, then there is issue of it not being the best choice if I want to grind from espresso to pour-over.
> 
> Is the Monolith flat a good choice for what I want? i.e. is it good for espresso - pour-over??
> 
> Ordering and getting one I realise is an issue.


 Seriously consider the mazzer ZM I have really enjoyed using mine and if it were not for the fact I have a ZM electronic on route I would be keeping it!


----------



## Hasi

@MildredM there you have toffee chips chap in for a very good suggestion!

As I said earlier: ZM, ZM, ZM!!


----------



## RobW

Mr Puff is in the house! Really effective at expelling any remaining coffee. As a side effect it makes for a noticeable reduction in noise, not that the MC3 was loud in the first place.


----------



## MildredM

Ooooh it's good to see one over here ? it sounds great!


----------



## iroko

@RobW, where did you get Mr puff ?


----------



## MildredM

It's now available in the KafaTek store @iroko

https://www.kafatek.com/index.php/store/


----------



## Sparkyx

Hello people


----------



## MildredM

Well Helloo ? ? ?


----------



## mmmatron

Congrats! Welcome aboard


----------



## MildredM

The MAX is coming with a bean turbine 

Just saying!


----------



## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> The MAX is coming with a bean turbine
> Just saying!


That's a mighty strange way to power a grinder.


----------



## MildredM

9pm..... Any good anyone?


----------



## Bacms

MildredM said:


> 9pm..... Any good anyone?


 I may have bagged a flat...


----------



## MildredM

Bacms said:


> I may have bagged a flat...


 Fantastic ? ? ? ?


----------



## Bacms

MildredM said:


> Fantastic


Once the anxiety settles I will let you know whether I am actually happy I did this 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## Nicknak

No ... got to PayPal though ??? .. Didn't want one really ? I want a .......


----------



## ashcroc

Nicknak said:


> No ... got to PayPal though  .. Didn't want one really  I want a .......


Commiserations.


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> No ... got to PayPal though ??? .. Didn't want one really ? I want a .......


 Flat ?


----------



## duc996bp

Had a flat in basket, got to paypal, then told me sold out


----------



## L&R

I hid my cards yesterday. Solved


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

L&R said:


> I hid my cards yesterday. Solved


 I did the same. I was trying to keep it on the down low so I had less competition ?

I tried to get a Max but they sold out in seconds so I went for a Flat instead and managed to bag one. Super stoked and can't wait!! ?

Gutted for those who didn't get one though, it is a bit of a lottery and you've got to be super quick!!


----------



## Nicknak

ashcroc said:


> Nicknak said:
> 
> 
> 
> No ... got to PayPal though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .. Didn't want one really
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want a .......
> 
> 
> 
> Commiserations.
Click to expand...

 It was a very exciting 1 minute ?.. the system put two in the basket . When I got rid of the extra one I think it was too late already ?.. I am sure my Zenith will look ok tilted on a couple of bricks .


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Flat ?


 I was going to say a E .... g ....g....g " but not the right forum perhaps ?


----------



## MildredM

It is disappointing when it doesn't work out, to say the least ?

I expect there will be a couple of KafaTek grinders on the market before too long - with delivery available in days rather than months!


----------



## Nicknak

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I did the same. I was trying to keep it on the down low so I had less competition ?
> 
> I tried to get a Max but they sold out in seconds so I went for a Flat instead and managed to bag one. Super stoked and can't wait!! ?
> 
> Gutted for those who didn't get one though, it is a bit of a lottery and you've got to be super quick!!


 Finally ? you got one ? .. Well done


----------



## Bacms

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I tried to get a Max but they sold out in seconds so I went for a Flat instead and managed to bag one. Super stoked and can't wait!! ?


 The max did seem to fly. By the time I completed my purchase the flat was still showing as available but the MAX was already sold out. It didn't take me more than 30/40 seconds.



Nicknak said:


> I was going to say a E .... g ....g....g " but not the right forum perhaps ?


 Did you try to contact Denis. The previous pre-order email seem to suggest you could get one if you emailed him after the pre-order and didn't mind waiting. I am guessing it just means being put on a next production run


----------



## Nicknak

Bacms said:


> The max did think to fly. By the time I completed my purchase the flat was still showing as available but the MAX was already sold out. It didn't take me more than 30/40 seconds.
> 
> Did you try to contact Denis. The previous pre-order email seem to suggest you could get one if you emailed him after the pre-order and didn't mind waiting. I am guessing it just means being put on a next production run


 Yes thanks but the system is being problematic ? I am liaising with him , so maybe June


----------



## Inspector

Out of curiousity, how many Max were put on sale?


----------



## Deeez Nuuutz

Inspector said:


> Out of curiousity, how many Max were put on sale?


Who knows! I'm guessing maybe 50 of each at the most.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bacms

Inspector said:


> Out of curiosity, how many Max were put on sale?


 The numbers of each grinder put for sale are not known as far as I can tell. Probably more than what we think but lower than the current demand for sure.


----------



## ashcroc

Bacms said:


> The numbers of each grinder put for sale are not known as far as I can tell. Probably more than what we think but lower than the current demand for sure.


Am I the only one wondering if Dennis used to work in the diamond trade?


----------



## Planter

From the numbers people were quoting as order numbers it doesn't appear to be over 100.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## NigelO

I managed in the mayhem to come out with a flat...not max, but order number into 4 figures

Roll on next Spring!


----------



## MildredM

NigelO said:


> I managed in the mayhem to come out with a flat...not max, but order number into 4 figures
> 
> Roll on next Spring!


 Whooop! Another one joins the club! Well done nabbing a Flat ? ? ?


----------



## Mrboots2u

NigelO said:


> I managed in the mayhem to come out with a flat...not max, but order number into 4 figures
> 
> Roll on next Spring!


 How long ?


----------



## NigelO

Planter said:


> From the numbers people were quoting as order numbers it doesn't appear to be over 100.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk





Mrboots2u said:


> How long ?


 How long? Is what?


----------



## MildredM

Do you mean how long until delivery @Mrboots2u ? It ? usually 5 ish months after the opening/deposit. My Max is due at the month end, ordered May 2019. KafaTek took orders last week for deliver spring 2020 PLUS a second list for delivery June 2020, the batch after the next production run.


----------



## MildredM

The conics are coming ? ? and you know what THAT means ???????????

The October delivery of conicals are currently being checked and packed for shipping towards the weekend. And then next week the MAXs get their final assembly and checks and they will be shipped ?

This is a pre warning - I am going to be very, very excited, totally annoying and all stuff like that very soon ?


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> The conics are coming ? ? and you know what THAT means ???????????
> 
> The October delivery of conicals are currently being checked and packed for shipping towards the weekend. And then next week the MAXs get their final assembly and checks and they will be shipped ?
> 
> This is a pre warning - I am going to be very, very excited, totally annoying and all stuff like that very soon ?


 I'm very happy for you ....? .. But can you suspend your account for a few weeks..... ??


----------



## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> The conics are coming   and you know what THAT means
> 
> The October delivery of conicals are currently being checked and packed for shipping towards the weekend. And then next week the MAXs get their final assembly and checks and they will be shipped
> 
> This is a pre warning - I am going to be very, very excited, totally annoying and all stuff like that very soon


Does that mean a standard flat or 2 may find their way onto the for sale boards?


----------



## MildredM

ashcroc said:


> Does that mean a standard flat or 2 may find their way onto the for sale boards?


 Yes, yes, it does ? ?


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Yes, yes, it does ? ?


 Tease ?


----------



## ashcroc

MildredM said:


> Yes, yes, it does


Doubt it'll be with my budget when it happens (& would defo have to upgrade my machine if I got one ) but I'm sure that'll be music to@Nicknak's ears.


----------



## Nicknak

ashcroc said:


> Doubt it'll be with my budget when it happens (& would defo have to upgrade my machine if I got one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) but I'm sure that'll be music to@Nicknak's ears.


 I might be having something on its way ?... In JUNE ?


----------



## MildredM

The conic build and shipping update show the first 6 are on the way to their new homes and the next 12 and being assembled. Only about another 30 to sort then he will be on to the MAX! I can't recall if anyone here is getting a conic this time round?


----------



## MildredM

Quoting NelisB from the Kafatek forum here!


----------



## Nicknak

As an aspiring member of MOD I have been researching searching all thing Flat and Max on the Internet .. I have heard a rumour that to help with the backlog there will be Kits of these grinders allowed out to people with an engineering back ground to complete them at home .. Has anybody heard the same or perhaps even snagged one .


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> As an aspiring member of MOD I have been researching searching all thing Flat and Max on the Internet .. I have heard a rumour that to help with the backlog there will be Kits of these grinders allowed out to people with an engineering back ground to complete them at home .. Has anybody heard the same or perhaps even snagged one .


 Has there been a leak? I heard one was out for testing and review.


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Has there been a leak? I heard one was out for testing and review.


 That is what I read , was all a bit vague .. might look on HB


----------



## Marocchino

I saw that and did a trouble take, thought the build quality wasn't quite up to the usual KrapaTek standards, could have been the original preproduction model. A little bit off that a litre tin of glue had to be purchased from B&Q to aid initial assembly, not what you'd expect from such a well engineered quality item ? The accompanying Max towel looked pretty good though ?


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> Has there been a leak? I heard one was out for testing and review.


 *A leak??? It strikes me that there's been a full blown gusher! *

*As a consequence, details appear to be plastered all over the US media. So, I might as well put you 'grinder-heads' out of your misery and publish my review below.*

Firstly, my sincere thanks must go to, the ever thoughtful, Denise at KrapaTek.

I have to say that delivery of the pre-production, Self-Assembly MAX coffee grinder was a totaly unexpected surprise.

I sincerely hope that this unsolicited, unbiased, review proves to be of interest and value to both KrapaTek and coffee lovers in general.

Self-Assembly MAX, or SAM as he is affectionately and ridiculously referred to at KrapaTek, is designed and manufactured in a remote, yet pleasant corner of North Lincolnshire. Perhaps best known for it's stitch-craft, this erstwhile engineering wilderness is the birthplace and manufacturing hub of the extravagantly embroidered, cheapo, Ikea bar towel. These towels are much sought after and, adorn coffee machines and kitchen worktops of coffee aficionados as far afield as Scunthorpe and&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.er Scunthorpe. Only time and my unbiased review will tell if SAM is destined to do the same.

In launching SAM, Denise is hoping to offer an interim solution, or form of comfort, to those poor b*$tard$ who, for reasons of slow internet connection, old age, or, various other inadequacies, have, so far, failed to snag themselves a proper MAX.

*SAM - with de-luxe accessory kit*

*Observations*











*Shipping*


Shipped, second class Royal Mail, in a poxy-looking, grey, polythene bag. Somewhat surprisingly, he arrived safe and sound.

SAM is supplied as flatpack and requires DIY assembly.

I have to be honest and say that once I'd unwrapped him, I was so excited&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. that I waited for over a week before I could be ar$ed to attempt to assemble him.

No special tools are required for assembly but, I subsequently found that the kit did not include all necessary sticky tape and adhesive. I see this as a major shortcoming.



*Main Body*


Given my engineering background, I can say that the assembly of the main body was not at all difficult. Pre-scored fold-lines meant that expanding and folding the body was almost intuitive. With it having literally sprung into shape, it only required the application of two strategically placed pieces of sticky tape, in order for the body to achieve surprising rigidity. Sadly, the sticky tape was not included in the kit! I'm not sure if this was due to an oversight or, down to Denise being a tight-ar$e ? Either way, not good.



*Non-magnetic Grind Chute*


This proved to be a disappointingly sloppy fit in the precision-torn hole in the front. I can only assume that this is to facilitate easy removal, of the chute, in order to poke out stale, retained, grinds**.



_FFP Burr Set (Frankly Furry Burr)_


I'm almost impressed with these burrs.

Sadly, the ground coffee they produce is nowhere near as fluffy as the burrs themselves.

On the plus side, they are extremely quiet. So, if and when I might choose to feature SAM in a video, you will clearly be able to hear the cat scratching around for food and the missus banging cupboards, in the background.



*ImpPropellor*


This novel and unexpected feature is not entirely to my liking.

In fairness, it does appear to do the trick and very much eliminates pop-corning.

However, the issue that I have with that, is that it obviates the potential for me to recommend the use of the plastic top off a tube of Pringles. This could adversely affect my relationship with Kelloggs&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; were I to have one.



*De Luxe MrsPufPuff*


Simple yet effective. This double-barrelled puffer is 100% non-plastic so, full marks to Denise for striking a blow for cleaner oceans.



*Distribution Tool*


Also designed and manufactured with the environment in mind is the sleek, double-ended, distribution tool. This is precision turned and, are all are made, exclusively, from reclaimed, reject, Snakewood portafilter handles. As well as doing a superb job of breaking up the clumps in the pf basket, they are also handy for poking out stale, retained, grinds.**



*Bean Funnel*


Once again, thanks to clear 'glue here' instructions on the joint tab, easy enough to assemble but&#8230; *why did I have to go to B&Q and buy a litre tin of glue?*



*Fitting Kit v2.1.3*


Comprises four 2" strips of self-adhesive Velcro, all of which proved to be surplus to requirements. ???

I intend to offer these strips for sale on CFUK or, failing that, on eBay.

The proceeds of such a sale would normally go direct to charity but, in this instance, *I intend to reimburse myself in respect of the personal expense associated with the purchase the litre tin of glue.*



*General*


SAM is both small and extremely light, so definitely ticks two important boxes when it comes to being 'kitchen-friendly'.

There is no doubting the fact that SAM is very well engineered but, as a consequence, he is rectangular and chunky-looking. That in itself is is a major turn-off, in my view, and is only eclipsed by the absence of a flip-up plastic lid, a red neon indicator lamp, a clunk-click on/off switch and some anaemic-looking wooden bits!









*Conclusion:*

KrapaTek just about sums it up&#8230;&#8230;.SAM is £*@@!%$ useless!

However, the embroidered towel that came with him is quite splendid &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.and I'm going to keep it, regardless!

May the Pre-Order Gods of Seattle smile upon you all!!!

And, if they don't then,&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; I strongly suggest that you get a Niche!


----------



## Mrboots2u

Nicknak said:


> As an aspiring member of MOD I have been researching searching all thing Flat and Max on the Internet .. I have heard a rumour that to help with the backlog there will be Kits of these grinders allowed out to people with an engineering back ground to complete them at home .. Has anybody heard the same or perhaps even snagged one .


 presumably at a discount....

or is it april...


----------



## MildredM

Wow! Well, I quite like it visually. Put it this way, I've seen worse. Are those burrs flat? I suspect they weren't when they were dispatched. I expect it's all down to what does the coffee taste like in the cup. And how soon will @Nicknak be able to turn some wood bits for it


----------



## Nicknak

@Snakehips thanks for that it made my day. ...

When we get ours in sunny June ,it will have all the updates on he has in the pipeline ?

Mean while at least you got a towel ??


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Wow! Well, I quite like it visually. Put it this way, I've seen worse. Are those burrs flat? I suspect they weren't when they were dispatched. I expect it's all down to what does the coffee taste like in the cup. And how soon will @Nicknak be able to turn some wood bits for it


 I am currently tuning my lathes to get to the 0.000000000001mm required ?


----------



## MildredM

6 conics to go through testing then it will be the MAX on the bench. Just saying ?‍♀


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> 6 conics to go through testing then it will be the MAX on the bench. Just saying ?‍♀


 Is yours the first one ?


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> Is yours the first one ?


 No ?


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> No ?


 Is Denis getting lots of " are we nearly there yet " calls ??


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> Is Denis getting lots of " are we nearly there yet " calls ??


 I could try sending him another 3 million towels ?


----------



## MildredM

I just happened to glance, as you do, at the assembly and testing list. Just to see how the conics we're coming along really. And blow me, Denis has only finished them all and we know what THAT means, don't we ????


----------



## MildredM

Fancy forgetting to post here! All the family together!









Mr Puff.









And the new coated shute.


----------



## MildredM

And I can now reveal . . . The bottom!!










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Marocchino

MildredM said:


> And I can now reveal . . . The bottom!!


 How thoughtful - that's a very nice touch! ✍


----------



## ashcroc

That's a nice serial number.


----------



## MildredM

It appears the MOD is likely to be increasing its membership very soon. I am expecting a proposal, cheque, and grovelly letter in the post any day now ?


----------



## Marocchino

MildredM said:


> It appears the MOD is likely to be increasing its membership very soon. I am expecting a proposal, cheque, and grovelly letter in the post any day now ?


 .....and what about an order for a certain kind of flat black rectangular accessory ?


----------



## Hasi

MOD as in...


----------



## MildredM

Hasi said:


> MOD as in...


 Yes aka the Secret 7, and soon to be 8 when @Nicknak gets his application and cheque in!!


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Yes aka the Secret 7, and soon to be 8 when @Nicknak gets his application and cheque in!!


 Quick where do I send it ....


----------



## Nicknak

Nicknak said:


> Quick where do I send it ....


 Luckily I will get my pension increase notification soon .... Talking of which it has been 10 years retired this month ??


----------



## Hasi

what's a pension?!


----------



## Nicknak

Hasi said:


> what's a pension?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gesendet von meinem COL-L29 mit Tapatalk


 It is a very nice final salary pension ? donated to by all the very nice UK tax payers ... Luckily a fair few years off being an OAP ..


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> It is a very nice final salary pension ? donated to by all the very nice UK tax payers ... Luckily a fair few years off being an OAP ..


 Hmmmm I expect you'll be after a nice, hardly used, lever machine before too long ?


----------



## Marocchino

Nicknak said:


> Luckily I will get my pension increase notification soon .... Talking of which it has been 10 years retired this month ??


 Glad to say I made it into the retired club a few years ago too - I know it's a cliche because I've heard the same comments from friends and colleagues who went before me, but I honestly can't say where the time goes, it just seems to fly by. Congratulations and keep breathing ??


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Hmmmm I expect you'll be after a nice, hardly used, lever machine before too long ?


 Mmm an LR has been on my radar for a while ???


----------



## Nicknak

Marocchino said:


> Glad to say I made it into the retired club a few years ago too - I know it's a cliche because I've heard the same comments from friends and colleagues who went before me, but I honestly can't say where the time goes, it just seems to fly by. Congratulations and keep breathing ??


 Thank you , yes it is great .. I was lucky enough to retire quite young really . The aim is to last 30 years to match the time I worked ?


----------



## Marocchino

Nicknak said:


> The aim is to last 30 years to match the time I worked ?


 I can identify with the sentiment, but I think the stats are heavily against me in that department as I got over 40 years in.

Ill be happy just making as big a dent as possible in my pension pot and having as much fun as I can in the process of doing it ?

Good Luck with your plan. ?


----------



## ashcroc

Nicknak said:


> Thank you , yes it is great .. I was lucky enough to retire quite young really . The aim is to last 30 years to match the time I worked


No point working past your 30 unless you've made it to upper management.


----------



## Hasi

so that's what this division is all about... 
I shall regard these grinders as survival awards as of today. Getting back to work my arse off now...


----------



## Nicknak

Hasi said:


> so that's what this division is all about...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I shall regard these grinders as survival awards as of today. Getting back to work my arse off now...


 There maybe more than an ounce of truth in that ? .. I might leave you mine if it turns bad quick ?


----------



## MildredM

The Monolith Mat!


----------



## Saltydog

Leather?

looks lovely


----------



## MildredM

Saltydog said:


> Leather?
> 
> looks lovely


 Yes ?

Thanks! I like it without a hole for the press button but we are still in the will we/won't we stage!


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Yes ?
> 
> Thanks! I like it without a hole for the press button but we are still in the will we/won't we stage!


 You have some spare leather ?


----------



## Hasi

Saltydog said:


> Leather?
> looks lovely


crocus leather, as you can see


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> The Monolith Mat!
> 
> View attachment 33712





MildredM said:


> Yes ?
> 
> Thanks! I like it without a hole for the press button but we are still in the will we/won't we stage!


 @MildredM Given the lack of hole, I'm slightly curious as to how you press the button?


----------



## MildredM

Snakehips said:


> @MildredM Given the lack of hole, I'm slightly curious as to how you press the button?


 I've fitted a special button presser device. Once the patient comes through I will disclose the inner workings in full. I am not allowed to say now, sorry.


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> I've fitted a special button presser device. Once the *patient* comes through I will disclose the inner workings in full. I am not allowed to say now, sorry.


 Ok, I will be patent and await the patient and, the associated disclosure.

I'm assuming that the device has X-Ray vision or some such sensing capability, so that it can determine whether it is required to switch the grinder on or, off?


----------



## MildredM

Snakehips said:


> Ok, I will be patent and await the patient and, the associated disclosure.
> 
> I'm assuming that the device has X-Ray vision or some such sensing capability, so that it can determine whether it is required to switch the grinder on or, off?


 Unless you pay me handsomely then I'm not revealing anything. Anyway, let me get on, I'm very busy today


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> Unless you pay me handsomely then I'm not revealing anything. Anyway, let me get on, I'm very busy today


 PAY???

So that's it then, is it.......... you've over-spent on grinders and can't afford a proper mat.......... with holes?


----------



## MildredM

Mmmmmmmmmm you can't beat a bit of PVC ???


----------



## MildredM

You just wait until I get my mat embroidered ? ?


----------



## Snakehips

MildredM said:


> Mmmmmmmmmm you can't beat a bit of PVC ???


 Flipping cheek! I'll have you know it's Genuine Leather............ Hobbycraft's finest........ £12/sq foot.


----------



## ashcroc

Snakehips said:


> PAY???
> So that's it then, is it.......... you've over-spent on grinders and can't afford a proper mat.......... with holes?
> <img alt="IMG_1932.thumb.jpeg.86e0b3ddc8ba8ca238959d5570a495eb.jpeg" data-fileid="33770" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2019_11/IMG_1932.thumb.jpeg.86e0b3ddc8ba8ca238959d5570a495eb.jpeg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Why is it hanging off the edges?


----------



## MildredM

ashcroc said:


> Snakehips said:
> 
> 
> 
> PAY???
> So that's it then, is it.......... you've over-spent on grinders and can't afford a proper mat.......... with holes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it hanging off the edges?
Click to expand...

 In case it shrinks in the wash ?!!!


----------



## MildredM

It's beginning to look like the KafaTek showroom here ?


----------



## Nicknak

Something very nice arrived for my Mr Flat today .. A big thankyou to @MildredM .


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> Something very nice arrived for my Mr Flat today .. A big thankyou to @MildredM .
> 
> View attachment 34440


 Dusting Reductive Device 

You will be sacking the cleaner next ?


----------



## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Dusting Reductive Device
> 
> You will be sacking the cleaner next ?


 A fewer dogs might help ? . How are the other six covers coming on ???


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> A fewer dogs might help ? . How is the other six covers coming on ???


 Robot Vac next then 

Six? SIX?!! Hang on while I unchain myself from the machine and have a sustaining cuppa ?


----------



## Agentb

MildredM said:


> It's beginning to look like the KafaTek showroom here ?
> 
> View attachment 34385


 I saw this and thought I'd better call the Doctor.

MAX-TER-MIN-ATE

There's a poor Conic quivering behind a couch somewhere. ?


----------



## MildredM

Agentb said:


> I saw this and thought I'd better call the Doctor.
> 
> MAX-TER-MIN-ATE
> 
> There's a poor Conic quivering behind a couch somewhere. ?


 KafaTek Rule OK?!!!!!


----------



## Carlo

I have now read all the 21 pages of this thread....I snatched an MC3 the other day, so I guess I can count myself in ?

Anyone with a conical with Mazzer upgrade here? Anyone using it with dark roasts?


----------



## MildredM

Carlo said:


> I have now read all the 21 pages of this thread....I snatched an MC3 the other day, so I guess I can count myself in ?
> 
> Anyone with a conical with Mazzer upgrade here? Anyone using it with dark roasts?


 Congratulations ? don't forget to join the KafaTek forum too (if you haven't already)! It is a really good forum with lots of like minded people, plenty of good advice, anecdotes etc!


----------



## Nicknak

Carlo said:


> I have now read all the 21 pages of this thread....I snatched an MC3 the other day, so I guess I can count myself in ?
> 
> Anyone with a conical with Mazzer upgrade here? Anyone using it with dark roasts?


 Well done you ... when is it due for delivery .. There is a few who have the Conic on here ..


----------



## Carlo

Nicknak said:


> Well done you ... when is it due for delivery .. There is a few who have the Conic on here ..


 Due in June apparently


----------



## Carlo

MildredM said:


> Congratulations ? don't forget to join the KafaTek forum too (if you haven't already)! It is a really good forum with lots of like minded people, plenty of good advice, anecdotes etc!


 Where is this? Is it within coffeforums?


----------



## MildredM

Carlo said:


> Where is this? Is it within coffeforums?


 It is Denis's own forum. If you search forums.kafatek and request to join you will be in before you know it ?


----------



## Nicknak

Carlo said:


> Where is this? Is it within coffeforums?


 No it is run by Denis the maker .. look it up .


----------



## Carlo

Brilliant, thanks!


----------



## Dunk

MildredM said:


> It is Denis's own forum. If you search forums.kafatek and request to join you will be in before you know it ?


 Just joined as im now the proud owner of a flat!


----------



## Nicknak

Dunk said:


> Just joined as im now the proud owner of a flat!


 Congrats to you too.... it is getting crowded now ?


----------



## Carlo

I was thinking, the normal 13A fuse in the UK plug seems a bit too high...Did anyone replace it with say a 5A one, just to better protect the motor?


----------



## Jony

Obviously you have a surge protection, and I can't even remember what plug fuse I actually used.


----------



## Carlo

yes of course, but I find the 13A that normally comes with the plug a bit useless, I can't recall ever seeing one blown...But then again, modern electrical devices rarely need it


----------



## MildredM

Carlo said:


> I was thinking, the normal 13A fuse in the UK plug seems a bit too high...Did anyone replace it with say a 5A one, just to better protect the motor?


 I would ask Denis for advice on this. He will know the machine rating etc and be able to advise accordingly.


----------



## Carlo

MildredM said:


> I would ask Denis for advice on this. He will know the machine rating etc and be able to advise accordingly.


 thanks, will ask in the kafatek forum


----------



## Carlo

The answer is 3A or 5A should be fine:

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/guidance/safety-around-the-home/plugs-and-fuses/

Plugs for appliances rated up to about *700 watts* should have a 3-amp fuse (coloured red).
For example:
3A Fuse - Table lamp, standard lamp, television, video, computer, mixer, blender, fridge, freezer, power drill, jig saw, soldering iron.

Plugs for appliances rated between about *700 watts and 3000 watts* (the maximum rating of a wall socket) should be fitted with a 13-amp fuse (coloured brown).


----------



## Dunk

I'm moving on from an EK43 to a Flat. What are people doing in terms of ratios and times?

On the EK I found that it very much suited the longer shot 1-2.5/3 in 25-26 seconds or so. Somewhere epic with that but quite often it wasn't amazing flavour wise.

What kinda changes should I be making for the flat?


----------



## MildredM

If anyone in the U.K. is on the lookout for a MAX then there's one for sale on the Kafatek forum.


----------



## M_H_S

How much?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


----------



## PPapa

£3K. Shame I've got an EK43S and selling that in order to buy Flat Max would still mean it's an expensive adventure


----------



## Jony

Un less its in white and priced at £1800 ish, that is pricey


----------



## Carlo

Looks like the production is going fine despite COVID. The wait is excruciating, made worse by the lockdown....

Can I ask the UK folks how much the shipping cost and what courier and how long it took???

ta


----------



## Jony

Around £1850 all in for the Mon Con nand less than 7 days to get here.


----------



## Carlo

Jony said:


> Around £1850 all in for the Mon Con nand less than 7 days to get here.


 Thanks @Jony does that include custom charges?


----------



## MildredM

Carlo said:


> Thanks @Jony does that include custom charges?


 Import duty is payable once it lands in the U.K. It may be helpful to get some figures from recent purchasers for a clear, up to date cost of everything. I think duty for my MAX last year was roughly £420 off the top of my head.


----------



## Jony

Yes give or take a £10 for the Conical that is, others vary


----------



## Snakehips

@Carlo Denis ships via UPS

The three grinders I've had from Kafatek have all been delivered here in the UK within less than 48 hrs of them advising the shipping label. In fact nearer 36 hours than 48.

Shipping will be in the order of $140 / $150 which will be added to your current outstanding balance to be the total of the final invoice.

Import duties, payable, online, to UPS are nominally 22%, on the value of your final invoice. So effectively, you will not be paying duty on your deposit.


----------



## Snakehips

If any MC3 owners would like a leather mat to protect their grinder base then I have a few that I am wanting to sell, in order to raise a little for charity.

Similar to below but without the logo.

I would be asking £10 including postage.

*All monies received, plus a minimum of another £5 per item sold, from me, will go to a charity benefitting front-line workers at this difficult time.*

I will shortly be posting this on the KafaTek forum.









* I do not have a mat for Monolith Flat but do have a couple that will suit the Max (£16)

Please PM me interested.


----------



## Planter

The max with a few upgrades was just under £3200 all in

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## Nicknak

Mr Flat now has a big brother


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> Mr Flat now has a big brother
> 
> View attachment 39123


 Whoooooop ⭐🥳🤩 congratulations 😁 😁 😁


----------



## Nicknak

A big thank you to @MildredM , I received a great fitting leather protective mat for the Max and a very posh cover today .


----------



## MildredM

Haha! Look great 😁 thanks again 😁 (look at your sunburst-y MAX!!!) 😎


----------



## coffeechap

Ah the elite group, hope you guys are enjoying your awesome grinders


----------



## MildredM

coffeechap said:


> Ah the elite group, hope you guys are enjoying your awesome grinders


 👋🏼 hope all is well with you @coffeechap 😁 nice to see you calling in!


----------



## L&R

I am a deposit owner haha


----------



## Nicknak

@L&R Congratulations, which one did you go for/get ?


----------



## mmmatron

Cleaning the conic this morning I noticed this on the burrs (not there when I last cleaned). Is this normal? Had it for 2 years.


----------



## Adam.f

mmmatron said:


> Cleaning the conic this morning I noticed this on the burrs (not there when I last cleaned). Is this normal? Had it for 2 years.


 Not that it is the same machine but I have a tiny bit on my Niche burr, I took at pic and sent it off to Niche, they came back and said it was fine and that it was something not to worry about it will not affect the grind in anyway. I have only had the niche over a month and only ever brushed the burr with the brush provided.


----------



## L&R

Nicknak said:


> @L&R Congratulations, which one did you go for/get ?


 Mad Max


----------



## Nicknak

L&R said:


> Mad Max


 Well done , still getting to grips with mine .. Take it you will get the new in house burrs which will be interesting .. A nice addition to your growing collection ..


----------



## MildredM

L&R said:


> I am a deposit owner haha


 Fantastic - congratulations on securing a MAX 😁


----------



## MichaelSmith81

i managed to get an order on a Flat. The wait now begins....


----------



## MildredM

MichaelSmith81 said:


> i managed to get an order on a Flat. The wait now begins....


 Congratulations 😁 the wait will be worth it 😁 😁 towards the year end, I presume?


----------



## mctrials23

Are you in theory down to a single flat max now Mildred?


----------



## MildredM

mctrials23 said:


> Are you in theory down to a single flat max now Mildred?


 I am, as of this moment, down to just my MAX ! But there's sure to be something special in the not too distant future to look forward too 😊


----------



## mmmatron

An Ultra on the bench to give the Max a run for its money?


----------



## viveur

My Max is on its way... and I'm trying to figure out how to use it correctly.

I've seen lots of talk on the Kafatek forums, but without a clear conclusion: are people on here overdosing their baskets, or using them as specced? Currently I'm mostly using an 18g VST dosed at 18g (I also have a 15 g VST, but rarely use it), however the Max apparently comes with a 14g EPHQ basket, which people are dosing at 18-20g. Using the EPHQ basket overdosed (at e.g. 18g) seems like a good start, but what are people on here doing? (Coffees used are: mainly from Tim Wendelboe, i.e. light roasts, with a few others such as Square Mile and Coffee Collective if I'm feeling adventurous.)

And then there's talk about needing flow control - am I likely to run into significant problems with my E61? (I do want to upgrade to a Decent Espresso at some point but I've spent enough on espresso equipment this year.) I didn't really understand why flow control would be more relevant for the Max, although apparently the biggest issue are machines with no preinfusion 🤔.

These are all things I can test for myself of course 🙂- just curious what others have experienced.


----------



## olivier

Can't really comment on the Max, as I "only" have a Flat. I only used the VST 18g basket dosed at 18g so far, that works well.

But on the question of "needing" pre-infusion, I don't think it's really a hard requirement. Probably more related to the fact that Monolith Max users will probably be gravitating toward light roasts. Lighter roasts typically require different extraction (higher temperature, longer contact time for example) than dark roasts. With other grinders, fines might help slow down the flow. With the Max presumably producing fewer fines, I guess having the ability to have long PI / flow control can help you achieve the longer contact time you might want (need?) to sucessfully extract light roasts. Using the EPHQ basket should help too, as it has fewer (and maybe smaller) holes than the VST basket.

That being said, how essential is it? I have no idea. Also, on a E61 group you already have a built-in preinfusion. As you said though, the best is to test by yourself!


----------



## MildredM

viveur said:


> My Max is on its way... and I'm trying to figure out how to use it correctly.
> 
> I've seen lots of talk on the Kafatek forums, but without a clear conclusion: are people on here overdosing their baskets, or using them as specced? Currently I'm mostly using an 18g VST dosed at 18g (I also have a 15 g VST, but rarely use it), however the Max apparently comes with a 14g EPHQ basket, which people are dosing at 18-20g. Using the EPHQ basket overdosed (at e.g. 18g) seems like a good start, but what are people on here doing? (Coffees used are: mainly from Tim Wendelboe, i.e. light roasts, with a few others such as Square Mile and Coffee Collective if I'm feeling adventurous.)
> 
> And then there's talk about needing flow control - am I likely to run into significant problems with my E61? (I do want to upgrade to a Decent Espresso at some point but I've spent enough on espresso equipment this year.) I didn't really understand why flow control would be more relevant for the Max, although apparently the biggest issue are machines with no preinfusion 🤔.
> 
> These are all things I can test for myself of course 🙂- just curious what others have experienced.


 Big congratulations 😁

I love my MAX. I'm dosing 15.5g in a 15g VST and don't have any bother at all with the shots on my L-R. I would say it can be fickle, getting it just right, but even saying that I haven't had any really disastrous shots. Just get it and use it and enjoy the learning process - it is different, but it isn't anything to lose sleep over! I'm sure you will love it 😁


----------



## MildredM

olivier said:


> Can't really comment on the Max, as I "only" have a Flat. I only used the VST 18g basket dosed at 18g so far, that works well.
> 
> But on the question of "needing" pre-infusion, I don't think it's really a hard requirement. Probably more related to the fact that Monolith Max users will probably be gravitating toward light roasts. Lighter roasts typically require different extraction (higher temperature, longer contact time for example) than dark roasts. With other grinders, fines might help slow down the flow. With the Max presumably producing fewer fines, I guess having the ability to have long PI / flow control can help you achieve the longer contact time you might want (need?) to sucessfully extract light roasts. Using the EPHQ basket should help too, as it has fewer (and maybe smaller) holes than the VST basket.
> 
> That being said, how essential is it? I have no idea. Also, on a E61 group you already have a built-in preinfusion. As you said though, the best is to test by yourself!


 Yes, less fines (although not early on) and I'm finding it just keeps on improving! I loved my Flat - it was different to MAX, yes, and they are both equally fantastic!


----------



## Chainlinephil

I seem to have joined the club. Many thanks to @MildredM look forward to using the Conic over the next day or so and it complimenting the big flat Ceado Hero Naked


----------



## MildredM

Chainlinephil said:


> I seem to have joined the club. Many thanks to @MildredM look forward to using the Conic over the next day or so and it complimenting the big flat Ceado Hero Naked


 Congratulations 😁 and thank you 😁 and that sounds like the end of your grinder journey then 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Chainlinephil

MildredM said:


> Congratulations  and thank you  and that sounds like the end of your grinder journey then


Oh, never say never there's a certain Titus in the works

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chainlinephil

First test this evening and a complete Fluke. The grind setting Mildred had the Conic on









Was deployed as I had no idea where to go.
Rave Coffee Honduras Clave de Sol light roast at 16.5g dose, 33g Yield resulted in 8s PI at 4.2 bar then 33s from first drops extraction, ha, almost perfect. What a great espresso for 8.30pm! 
Interesting output, a bit of chaff, looked different to the Ceado.
Then used the Ceado Naked. Same dose, same yield, 15s PI at 4.2 bar, 31s extraction from first drops but rather than an even extraction profile like the conic, starts much slower, much faster finish.
Very different flavour profile between them, really liked both for different reasons.
Which is exactly what I hoped for
Just surprised by the setting fluke!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chainlinephil

An in post so to speak









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MildredM

Chainlinephil said:


> First test this evening and a complete Fluke. The grind setting Mildred had the Conic on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was deployed as I had no idea where to go.
> Rave Coffee Honduras Clave de Sol light roast at 16.5g dose, 33g Yield resulted in 8s PI at 4.2 bar then 33s from first drops extraction, ha, almost perfect. What a great espresso for 8.30pm!
> Interesting output, a bit of chaff, looked different to the Ceado.
> Then used the Ceado Naked. Same dose, same yield, 15s PI at 4.2 bar, 31s extraction from first drops but rather than an even extraction profile like the conic, starts much slower, much faster finish.
> Very different flavour profile between them, really liked both for different reasons.
> Which is exactly what I hoped for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just surprised by the setting fluke!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Brilliant!!! I wasn't sure where it was at, I'd cleaned it again and left it backed off from touching a bit by instinct - glad it was close!!

Fab line up there ???? a few more and you will have a veritable army ????


----------



## RobW

@MildredM you need to update your signature now the conical has gone 😀

I'm about to be in the reverse situation, my MC3 is about to have a new friend 🥳


----------



## MildredM

RobW said:


> @MildredM you need to update your signature now the conical has gone 😀
> 
> I'm about to be in the reverse situation, my MC3 is about to have a new friend 🥳


 Oooooh exciting delivery for YOU soon then 🤔🥳

Down to one here! For now, anyway


----------



## viveur

MildredM said:


> Big congratulations ????
> 
> I love my MAX. I'm dosing 15.5g in a 15g VST and don't have any bother at all with the shots on my L-R. I would say it can be fickle, getting it just right, but even saying that I haven't had any really disastrous shots. Just get it and use it and enjoy the learning process - it is different, but it isn't anything to lose sleep over! I'm sure you will love it ????


 Thanks for the reassurance! Max is here, but it's too late in the day for Espresso now so I'll have to wait until tomorrow* ????

One more question: I'm trying to understand the "safety cap". The top part of the Max inlet (funnel?) is removable (is this the safety cap?). On the bottom there is a small threaded screw hole with nothing attached. Should something be attached there, because I've seen photos of the inlet/funnel with a dangly bit, which I'm guessing could be attached to that hole - but I don't have that dangly bit - but also this photo looks like it could be the Flat not the Max:










( https://www.picuki.com/media/1957776207957565816 )

Also, this thing is HUGE. I somehow imagined the grinder to be smaller. Not a complaint, just an observation. Also amazingly built. (I've never seen people mention the Max being huge, but I've seen people complain about the EG-1 being huge, so I can't imagine how big the EG-1 really is.)

* I was sorely tempted to break my no coffee in the afternoon rule for once...


----------



## L&R

*Patience* - when you have a brand new 3k worth high-end grinder on your desk and will wait for the morning to come for test.

//total off but I couldn't help it


----------



## MildredM

viveur said:


> Thanks for the reassurance! Max is here, but it's too late in the day for Espresso now so I'll have to wait until tomorrow* ????
> 
> One more question: I'm trying to understand the "safety cap". The top part of the Max inlet (funnel?) is removable (is this the safety cap?). On the bottom there is a small threaded screw hole with nothing attached. Should something be attached there, because I've seen photos of the inlet/funnel with a dangly bit, which I'm guessing could be attached to that hole - but I don't have that dangly bit - but also this photo looks like it could be the Flat not the Max:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( https://www.picuki.com/media/1957776207957565816 )
> 
> Also, this thing is HUGE. I somehow imagined the grinder to be smaller. Not a complaint, just an observation. Also amazingly built. (I've never seen people mention the Max being huge, but I've seen people complain about the EG-1 being huge, so I can't imagine how big the EG-1 really is.)
> 
> * I was sorely tempted to break my no coffee in the afternoon rule for once...


 Congratulations on your new delivery ????

I leave the top funnel in place, just pour the beans through the hole, then use MrPuff. MAX doesn't have the disc, I can't recall what Denis said about it but it was mentioned on his forum a bit back 

The EG-1 IS huge!! Perception is a funny thing because I look at the MAX and it seems small, not big, but when it first came it DID seem big!


----------



## Chainlinephil

as you can see the Conic is dwarfed by the housing of the whispers (Ceado). I imagine Mr Max burr size makes it similar. I relate to my Mythos which really was a big old beast!


----------



## MildredM

viveur said:


> but also this photo looks like it could be the Flat not the Max:


 Sorry, yes, that is the MC3


----------



## MildredM

Chainlinephil said:


> as you can see the Conic is dwarfed by the housing of the whispers (Ceado). I imagine Mr Max burr size makes it similar. I relate to my Mythos which really was a big old beast!


 Haha! The Ceado is a big beast indeed, bigger than the MAX I'd say!


----------



## Chainlinephil

I've had some puzzling behaviour today with my Conic with a challenging Burundi Geisha. Making the grind more course to speed up flow after 48s to 45g output (22g dose) but quite a short PI of 6s, 2 full numbers later from 5 to 7 and the same extraction time! The grind looked more course. However the sourness (Even more puzzled as it should have been bitterness but I couldn't fathom more dose or a finer grind as it was already a 48s shot!)) was reduced contrary to wisdom, but not a great shot.

After sinking 44g of coffee and not wanting to waste any more as it was the last of the bag I decided to drink it as my Oatley barista cortado with low expectations and a little disappointment.

To my great surprise the Cortado was great. I am now thinking this Conic has some form of inbuilt witchcraft. Maybe related to expensive well aligned grinders causing only pleasure synapses in the brain to fire irrespective of reality or convention!

Or I may have had too much coffee lately!


----------



## MildredM

Chainlinephil said:


> I've had some puzzling behaviour today with my Conic with a challenging Burundi Geisha. Making the grind more course to speed up flow after 48s to 45g output (22g dose) but quite a short PI of 6s, 2 full numbers later from 5 to 7 and the same extraction time! The grind looked more course. However the sourness (Even more puzzled as it should have been bitterness but I couldn't fathom more dose or a finer grind as it was already a 48s shot!)) was reduced contrary to wisdom, but not a great shot.
> 
> After sinking 44g of coffee and not wanting to waste any more as it was the last of the bag I decided to drink it as my Oatley barista cortado with low expectations and a little disappointment.
> 
> To my great surprise the Cortado was great. I am now thinking this Conic has some form of inbuilt witchcraft. Maybe related to expensive well aligned grinders causing only pleasure synapses in the brain to fire irrespective of reality or convention!
> 
> Or I may have had too much coffee lately!


 Inbuilt witchcraft?! Funny you should say that 😂 🧙🏻‍♀️


----------



## viveur

MildredM said:


> Congratulations on your new delivery 😁
> 
> I leave the top funnel in place, just pour the beans through the hole, then use MrPuff. MAX doesn't have the disc, I can't recall what Denis said about it but it was mentioned on his forum a bit back


 I did eventually find a post stating that Conical and Flat can popcorn, whereas Max effectively never popcorns. That would explain why the first two have a disc when the Max doesn't (but I guess Denis added the mounting hole to the Max... just in case anyone does hit popcorning and wants to install the disc)?

Anyhow, made my first few espressos: I'm using the same beans as I used with my Pharos (Square Mile: Red Brick), same dosage, but switching from VST 18g to the EPHQ 14g ridged (since that's the basket that came with the Max), all on an E61. Initially I aimed for the same shot time and weight as with the Pharos, but the shots were somewhat weak, and slightly sour. Definitely underextracted.

I then started moving to finer grinds and longer extractions, and I'm starting to get the where I'm expecting - I'm still trying to figure out the logic: the Max should have a more uniform grind, less fines, so longer shots are possible without bitterness coming into play - but should I need a longer shot to get the fruitiness? Or maybe the basket is the key. ? Certainly a promising (and of course the Max is much easier to use than a Pharos), I will need to keep experimenting 🙂.


----------



## olivier

I believe the logic is that with less fines you should be able to go finer than with a less uniform grinder without choking your machine. This means you might not have to resort to tricks such as much longer ratios / long pre-infusion or blooming to get a nice extraction. That being said, I think even if you can get high extraction at shorter ratios, I like to have more clarity/separation of flavours for fruity beans. In my experience (not with a Flat though) this is better achieved with longer ratios. Might be a matter of personal preference.

Best way to know for sure is for you to experiment!


----------



## MildredM

Very uniform here now I've been using MAX for a few months, early on I did have fines (as to be expected)


----------



## MildredM

Mmmmmm rubbery - the Mat, not the resulting cup of coffee!


----------



## viveur

Mildred: I see you have a gold OCD and WDT tool - is that Golden Max perhaps yours too 🙂?

https://www.picuki.com/media/2354684689446776636


----------



## MildredM

viveur said:


> Mildred: I see you have a gold OCD and WDT tool - is that Golden Max perhaps yours too 🙂?
> 
> https://www.picuki.com/media/2354684689446776636


 Haha! No, it isn't for me although it WAS an option for my next grinder I felt it was just a bit too blingy 😎
In the end I've gone for mainly black with maybe a spot of colour. Not sure what and it's a long wait yet before I will know 🤫


----------



## Carlo

I got rid of the forks and made this plate 😎

What do you think? Not getting much love in the Kafatek forum 😀


----------



## L&R

Great, I have to do the same when mine arrives because I always grind in a cup. Any details?


----------



## Carlo

L&R said:


> Great, I have to do the same when mine arrives because I always grind in a cup. Any details?


 Oh how nice! I thought nobody would ever ask!

So what I did is, I ordered a free sample of solid wood floor, make sure it's solid, not engineered (or you'll see the layers on the cut side).

I bought the 15mm, but 13mm is better (I had to reduce the thickness a bit)

I then bought these inserts from ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THREADED-WOOD-INSERT-NUTS-M4-M5-M6-M8-M10-HEX-DRIVE-SCREW-FIXINGS-TYPE-D/362330674849?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=631533755686&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

















I cut the wood 60mmx90mm

I then drilled 2x 6mm holes, and threaded the inserts in.

I chamferred the corners a bit with a file, looks better with smooth corners.









And finally I bolted through the fork bar with 2x M4 bolts









Total spend £1.95, 1 hour labour


----------



## L&R

Many thanks for the thorough explanation.


----------



## MildredM

Carlo said:


> I got rid of the forks and made this plate 😎
> 
> What do you think? Not getting much love in the Kafatek forum 😀
> 
> 
> View attachment 43390
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 43391
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 43392


 Great solution - makes me want a Denis-cup now 😅

I love the way these grinders can be minimally customised to make them perfect for their owners 😃


----------



## RobW

I got my MC3 last year because it was all that was available by the time I could get the website to work. I really wanted the Max as the ultimate grinder but I have to say I've found the MC3 so easy to use and it does a pretty good job for lighter roasts and V60. However, it was just too hard to resist the itch and I decided to keep trying to "win" a Max and got lucky in March. Now the MC3 has a new big brother 🙂.









Still early days (3kg of free QC fail beans from the local roastery) but the Max definitely gives a different flavour profile in side by side tasting. I'm still using VST 18g baskets dosed at 18g and the shots are not too messy, although they do speed up more than the MC3 after a slower start. I tried the EPHQ basket and you do need a significantly coarser grind for them, so I'll experiment some more, but switching to a lower extraction basket seems like a step backwards to me. I have some Rave light roasted beans on the way for when my Dog and Hat beans are finished next week so that will be a good test.

I wanted the Max as a more suitable option for V60 as well as espresso and it does give a super clean cup, so a definite win there.

The thing that stood out the most for me in operation is that the Max is much stiffer to adjust, and it is more like a "normal" grinder in that a tiny movement makes a noticeable difference in flow. On the MC3 I typically adjust by either a half or whole number when dialling in, and the collar is so easy to move that I can sometimes change the setting slightly when using Mr Puff. My Max came with a dialled in setting of 1.25 (or what Denis called 1.1) for the provided beans and I've only gone as far as 0.75, so I guess the espresso range is super narrow. The 0 is burr touch.

I was also struck by how quiet it is. The MC3 is not loud, but the Max is super quiet. 400rpm also looks and sounds slow for a flat but it gets through beans quicker than the MC3, not that speed matters.

Time will tell which grinder I prefer and whether I sell one, but for now it is quite nice to have the pair to play with.


----------



## Carlo

I agree with what you are saying on the MC3. The adjustment is soft, and it can change as you use Mr Puff. But the main gripe for me is that it's messy. I use very dark roasts, and I found it messy compared to the Niche, I was told it would get better after seasoning, but 3.5kg down and it's still messy. The coffee comes out from the side of the chute then up again, probably following a vortex. For this reason I am no longer grinding on the portafilter and have to use a cup placed as close as possible to the chute. I am convinced that the chute would perform much better with a longer sleeve. Denis says a longer sleeve would mean more retention, but I think he hasn't worked with really dark roasts like the ones I use. Most people won't have this problem because maybe they use medium roasts...

You might say, you need to RDT. No I am not doing that, I never did that on the Niche for the same coffee, not on my Ceado, not even on my Mignon. I am not starting now. This grinder costs 4x more than the Niche, I shouldn't be changing my workflow because of an evident problem with the chute.

I am not a fan of the forks as well, so I was happy to remove them. When you slide the portafilter in the forks, there is a lot of vertical play, the slot in the forks is way too wide for the lips of the portafilter. Also, the new system with the 3 holes just doesn't work. I used ball screws, nylon studs, all sorts, but still I wasn't happy, so I just got rid of them.

Other than the above, the grinder is nice and solid, well engineered and very consistent. In terms of performance though, the Niche was as good and less messy for my dark roasts.


----------



## L&R

for dark roasts you dont need more than Niche in general, they are always messy because of the oils


----------



## Carlo

L&R said:


> for dark roasts you dont need more than Niche in general, they are always messy because of the oils


 For the same oily beans, the Niche was less messy. I think the long, almost vertical chute design helps a lot


----------



## L&R

You say No RDT but in IMO it is a must while SD.


----------



## Carlo

L&R said:


> You say No RDT but in IMO it is a must while SD.


 I guess the point in question is that with my 2 previous *SD grinders*, the Ceado E37SD and the Niche Zero,* for the same coffee*, I never felt the need to RDT.


----------



## L&R

Hm I used on my Ceado e37SD RDT but yes Niche doesn't need that. Focus on taste, do you have any improvement? Probably that is the reason Denis worked on 2 type of Shuriken burrs for next productions. Once for light to medium and the other from med to dark.


----------



## Carlo

I have the Mazzer burrs, I think they should be OK with dark roast. I believe next production of MC3 will only be available with the Mazzer burrs. I think the problem is just the length of the plastic sleeve in the chute, it should be maybe 5mm longer.


----------



## RobW

Carlo said:


> I agree with what you are saying on the MC3. The adjustment is soft, and it can change as you use Mr Puff. But the main gripe for me is that it's messy. I use very dark roasts, and I found it messy compared to the Niche, I was told it would get better after seasoning, but 3.5kg down and it's still messy. The coffee comes out from the side of the chute then up again, probably following a vortex. For this reason I am no longer grinding on the portafilter and have to use a cup placed as close as possible to the chute. I am convinced that the chute would perform much better with a longer sleeve. Denis says a longer sleeve would mean more retention, but I think he hasn't worked with really dark roasts like the ones I use. Most people won't have this problem because maybe they use medium roasts...
> 
> You might say, you need to RDT. No I am not doing that, I never did that on the Niche for the same coffee, not on my Ceado, not even on my Mignon. I am not starting now. This grinder costs 4x more than the Niche, I shouldn't be changing my workflow because of an evident problem with the chute.
> 
> I am not a fan of the forks as well, so I was happy to remove them. When you slide the portafilter in the forks, there is a lot of vertical play, the slot in the forks is way too wide for the lips of the portafilter. Also, the new system with the 3 holes just doesn't work. I used ball screws, nylon studs, all sorts, but still I wasn't happy, so I just got rid of them.
> 
> Other than the above, the grinder is nice and solid, well engineered and very consistent. In terms of performance though, the Niche was as good and less messy for my dark roasts.
> 
> 
> View attachment 43417


 Wow, those beans are *dark*! Not trolling, but is it possible to get anything other than burnt aromas from them? 🤭

First thing I'd say is 3.5kg is not that much. I saw changes for several months, so your burrs are far from finished seasoning. I have the TiN burrs which produce less static.

Second, you've raised an issue about static and complained about the grinder, but you are only just starting to try RDT which is recommended by Denis. That seems a strange stance to take. It takes a few seconds and soon becomes muscle memory. Are you not finding RDT helps?


----------



## Carlo

@RobW RDT not a game changer for me, I did try it. More to do with the air vortex coming out from the chute, induced by the sweepers. You need a longer section of the chute to dampen the air vortices and give the coffee grinds a straight path out. The Niche got this totally right.


----------



## Chainlinephil

I have no issues at all with my MC1. No RDT. Just a good tap/puff on the intake manifold but it does benefit from WDT. It doesn't clog in the chute.

Chute fully cleared out without needing a tap. But med/dark (not externally oily) beans should will have some surface tension effects I expect.

My Ceado E37Z Naked does need RDT but does not need WDT (although I do it as it is my workflow and takes just a few seconds) due to its grind size uniformity.

Obviously one is a flat and the other a conical.

Clearly the beans make Quite a difference.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## viveur

Carlo said:


> I am not a fan of the forks as well, so I was happy to remove them. When you slide the portafilter in the forks, there is a lot of vertical play, the slot in the forks is way too wide for the lips of the portafilter. Also, the new system with the 3 holes just doesn't work. I used ball screws, nylon studs, all sorts, but still I wasn't happy, so I just got rid of them.


 FWIW I have minimal vertical play with my portafilter (Cafelat E61). I imagine this varies by machine, but hard to fault them for the current size (or else a lot of people wouldn't be able to put the portafilter in the forks).

Haven't even tried to use the holes myself in any case.


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## Chainlinephil

My Londinium PF fits like a glove. Added a vibration damper at the back use a funnel and golden

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carlo

Are you saying you are not getting this?

/monthly_2020_07/try.mp4.acc518ade7309898296967161aaebfd8.mp4" type="video/mp4">
View attachment try.mp4


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## MildredM

Just sharing a shot pulled tonight.

It is the Costa Rica Finca Licho yellow honey processed bean from HasBean. Purchased in March at the start of lockdown and vac packed for the freezer a week after roasting, it has been a real treat to enjoy this last couple of days.

Using the MAX, dosing 16g, tamping 10kg, 15s pi, 50s, 36g. I'm using the baskets that came with the L-R now which I think, from the top of my head, were 16g baskets. The top of the puck is slightly lower than in my 15g VST baskets.


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## catpuccino

@MildredM is that this one? https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/costa-rica-finca-licho-yellow-honey-villa-sarchi

Was commenting that this sounded like it'd make a killer flat white to someone the other day...


----------



## Chainlinephil

Carlo said:


> Are you saying you are not getting this?
> 
> try.mp4





Carlo said:


> Are you saying you are not getting this?
> 
> try.mp4


I do get that but once inserted it sits without moving with the funnel.

















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MildredM

catpuccino said:


> @MildredM is that this one? https://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/costa-rica-finca-licho-yellow-honey-villa-sarchi
> 
> Was commenting that this sounded like it'd make a killer flat white to someone the other day...


 Yes, I think so 😁 just slightly different notes but so similar 😁 flat white or straight, this one's delicious!


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## RobW

> 15 hours ago, MildredM said:
> 
> Just sharing a shot pulled tonight.
> 
> It is the Costa Rica Finca Licho yellow honey processed bean from HasBean. Purchased in March at the start of lockdown and vac packed for the freezer a week after roasting, it has been a real treat to enjoy this last couple of days.
> 
> Using the MAX, dosing 16g, tamping 10kg, 15s pi, 50s, 36g. I'm using the baskets that came with the L-R now which I think, from the top of my head, were 16g baskets. The top of the puck is slightly lower than in my 15g VST baskets.


 Wow, really long extraction time, I'd never think to pull a shot that slow, must go try it. What preinfusion pressure were you using for this?


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## MildredM

RobW said:


> Wow, really long extraction time, I'd never think to pull a shot that slow, must go try it. What preinfusion pressure were you using for this?


 I was on 4.5bar for this shot. It really worked for that bean 😁


----------



## Chainlinephil

Often at 15s to 20s PI here with a 30s extraction, typically between 3.5 and 5 bar depending on bean. Higher for the lighter roasts. I typically grind for a target 34g in 30s from 16.5g dose. The PI is what it is so to speak. Taste then adjust. Had some really long extractions at the 40s mark and still good. 
Got to go with the bean

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RobW

MildredM said:


> I was on 4.5bar for this shot. It really worked for that bean 😁


 Even using the EPHQ basket (which looks identical to the Londinium stock basket) I can't get a total (PI + shot time) of more than 30 seconds with the burrs starting to chirp. I wonder if the burrs are different on these latest batches? I have to admit to being a bit disappointed at the moment. I put 3kg of beans through it to start with and maybe another kg since, so it should be reasonably seasoned by now. The tightness of the espresso range and the inability to grind fine enough makes it challenging.


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## Mrboots2u

RobW said:


> Even using the EPHQ basket (which looks identical to the Londinium stock basket) I can't get a total (PI + shot time) of more than 30 seconds with the burrs starting to chirp. I wonder if the burrs are different on these latest batches? I have to admit to being a bit disappointed at the moment. I put 3kg of beans through it to start with and maybe another kg since, so it should be reasonably seasoned by now. The tightness of the espresso range and the inability to grind fine enough makes it challenging.


 What dose are you using and its with the updated Londinium ?


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## Planter

RobW said:


> Even using the EPHQ basket (which looks identical to the Londinium stock basket) I can't get a total (PI + shot time) of more than 30 seconds with the burrs starting to chirp. I wonder if the burrs are different on these latest batches? I have to admit to being a bit disappointed at the moment. I put 3kg of beans through it to start with and maybe another kg since, so it should be reasonably seasoned by now. The tightness of the espresso range and the inability to grind fine enough makes it challenging.


I had exactly the same issues Rob. Mine was from the February 2020 batch and think there have already been a few burr swaps by Denis in the versions released since this. Which to me highlighted a few issues or inconsistencies with those burrs.

I ran close to 20kg through them and although the grind became more consistent. As the burrs seasoned more the inability to grind finer and finer reduced without burrs chirping. I was struggling to get a shot time on my max and LR exceeding about 25 seconds.

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


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## MildredM

RobW said:


> Even using the EPHQ basket (which looks identical to the Londinium stock basket) I can't get a total (PI + shot time) of more than 30 seconds with the burrs starting to chirp. I wonder if the burrs are different on these latest batches? I have to admit to being a bit disappointed at the moment. I put 3kg of beans through it to start with and maybe another kg since, so it should be reasonably seasoned by now. The tightness of the espresso range and the inability to grind fine enough makes it challenging.


 That sounds frustrating. Have a word with Denis for some advice. Not sure if I said I am dosing 16g now (was always 15g) and also using the EPHQ baskets now. I like the taste more than from the VST (and they were tricky to get really right.) Keep trying, changing dose etc. And talk to Denis


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## Chainlinephil

Have you access to an alternative grinder to benchmark the bean with?

Does seem like a problem.

I can choke the Londinium with masses of adjustment left on my C#%*do (not sure I should mention it in this thread)

But the same with my (ex Mildred) conic. I've had to coursen that off quite a lot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RobW

Mrboots2u said:


> What dose are you using and its with the updated Londinium ?


 18g dose, which is a bit tight in the EPHQ basket but just about fits. Normally dose 18g in an 18g VST basket.

My LR has digital preinfusion.


----------



## RobW

Planter said:


> I had exactly the same issues Rob. Mine was from the February 2020 batch and think there have already been a few burr swaps by Denis in the versions released since this. Which to me highlighted a few issues or inconsistencies with those burrs.
> 
> I ran close to 20kg through them and although the grind became more consistent. As the burrs seasoned more the inability to grind finer and finer reduced without burrs chirping. I was struggling to get a shot time on my max and LR exceeding about 25 seconds.
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 Interesting to hear that others have had issues. I'll get in touch with Denis and see what he says. How did you resolve this in your case?


----------



## RobW

Chainlinephil said:


> Have you access to an alternative grinder to benchmark the bean with?
> 
> Does seem like a problem.
> 
> I can choke the Londinium with masses of adjustment left on my C#%*do (not sure I should mention it in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> But the same with my (ex Mildred) conic. I've had to coursen that off quite a lot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I have access to an MC3 ????. Same beans are perfectly fine through that, not even at the bottom of the range I typically find. On the MC3 I have a range of roughly 2 to 5.5, these beans are at 3.


----------



## L&R

Conic produce more fines and for them is easy to achieve slow extractions.


----------



## RobW

L&R said:


> Conic produce more fines and for them is easy to achieve slow extractions.


 I know this, but I did not expect to be getting <20 second gushers at burr touch. As others have said, on previous flats it was perfectly possible to choke the machine well away from burr touch. These burrs are supposed to be optimised for espresso.


----------



## L&R

What does Denis say about this, he is usually very responsive?


----------



## RobW

L&R said:


> What does Denis say about this, he is usually very responsive?


 Just emailing him now, he is very responsive 👍


----------



## Planter

RobW said:


> Interesting to hear that others have had issues. I'll get in touch with Denis and see what he says. How did you resolve this in your case?


I'll fire a PM to you Rob

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


----------



## RobW

I had a prompt response from Denis. He confirmed there has been a change in coating and finish on the burrs, resulting in less fines which will be the reason for the disparity between my grinder and ones from previous batches. He said on this iteration grinding close to 0 is expected.

He also suggested updosing to 18g and really thorough WDT.

I'll give them some more time, but might be tempted to experiment with different burrs. These low uniformity burrs certainly take some getting used to!


----------



## Nicknak

I have had the Max since the beginning of May 20 with about 9/10 kilo thru it .. Currently between 1.5 to 2 with burr touch at 0.5 now .. I am using it with a E61 with flow control , although I've stopped using the flow control as it adds nothing to improvement in taste that it did with the Monolith flat or HG1 . I still have the flat and HG1 that I use occasionally.

My burrs are the same as those in the last release I believe , a reddy yellow SSP . The February release possibly had a mixture of different burrs . I taste every shot before I add milk and even the 20 second gushers have been great ..

I am still using the Eazytamp pro tamper with the 15kg spring in it .

Overall I am very happy with the improvement in taste ..


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## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> I am still using the Eazytamp pro tamper with the 15kg spring in it


 I'd forgotten they were 15kg. Made me look what we were tamping at. Changed it to 14kg for this afternoons shots, from 12kg this morning


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## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> I'd forgotten they were 15kg. Made me look what we were tamping at. Changed it to 14kg for this afternoons shots, from 12kg this morning


 Did you notice much of a difference ? It did come with a 10kg and 5kg springs ..


----------



## MildredM

Nicknak said:


> Did you notice much of a difference ? It did come with a 10kg and 5kg springs ..


 Just slurping a cup now. I'm rubbish at describing taste etc but I know what I like, and I know if it's a balanced cup. I'd say this one tonight is the best we've had from these beans (and there's just enough left for a couple more shots in the morning)

Using the MAX at 1.3 ish for these. 16g in, 13s pi and a 44s shot for 36g in the cup. So, a teeny bit longer than the shot this afternoon.


----------



## Buster

I am also a new Monolith owner - a Flat arrived by courier 7th July. I ordered with the SSP burrs. Arrived set at 5.4 (or 5.8 if you take each mark as 2 since there are 5 marks between 1 and 2, 2 and 3 etc). Initially 17g in and 10secs to first drip. 35secs in total (so 25 secs of coffee pour) and I have 30.9 grams. Using Rave Specialty Blend and my Lelit Bianca. Eased off burrs and found initially all fairly inconsistent and was getting frustrated. Now after around 1kg of beans through - inc 250g of stale beans left in the cupboard last Christmas, I have tightened up to 4.4 (or 4.8 etc) and am on Square Mile Red Brick. This morning was 10s to first drip, then 31 sec pour to give me 36g from 19g after a total of 41 secs. I haven't played with the pressure profiling just left the paddle far right which is fully open. I think it has been set with 5-6 secs PI as standard as the pressure dial stays at zero until 5 or 6 secs in and then climbs quite quickly to 10.5 bar and by 10secs I usually have the first drips start. So far so good, although I do find the process a bit of a faff, and a bit messy but acceptable in my search for espresso nirvana.

I bought a Londinium whisk thingy last week and have been using that to distribute and then the Lelit 58.55 tamper. Think my tamping is inconsistent though and doesn't help, but getting there.


----------



## MildredM

Buster said:


> I am also a new Monolith owner - a Flat arrived by courier 7th July. I ordered with the SSP burrs. Arrived set at 5.4 (or 5.8 if you take each mark as 2 since there are 5 marks between 1 and 2, 2 and 3 etc). Initially 17g in and 10secs to first drip. 35secs in total (so 25 secs of coffee pour) and I have 30.9 grams. Using Rave Specialty Blend and my Lelit Bianca. Eased off burrs and found initially all fairly inconsistent and was getting frustrated. Now after around 1kg of beans through - inc 250g of stale beans left in the cupboard last Christmas, I have tightened up to 4.4 (or 4.8 etc) and am on Square Mile Red Brick. This morning was 10s to first drip, then 31 sec pour to give me 36g from 19g after a total of 41 secs. I haven't played with the pressure profiling just left the paddle far right which is fully open. I think it has been set with 5-6 secs PI as standard as the pressure dial stays at zero until 5 or 6 secs in and then climbs quite quickly to 10.5 bar and by 10secs I usually have the first drips start. So far so good, although I do find the process a bit of a faff, and a bit messy but acceptable in my search for espresso nirvana.
> 
> I bought a Londinium whilst thingy last week and have been using that to distribute and then the Lelit 58.55 tamper. Think my tamping is inconsistent though and doesn't help, but getting there.


 Congratulations 😁 Sounds like you are enjoying it - the faff bit will go and before you know it, it will become second nature. And the more beans you get through at this stage will settle things down. Are you enjoying the taste in the cup? I love Red Brick in a flat white (16g/36g with about 90g milk) 😁


----------



## Mrboots2u

Buster said:


> I am also a new Monolith owner - a Flat arrived by courier 7th July. I ordered with the SSP burrs. Arrived set at 5.4 (or 5.8 if you take each mark as 2 since there are 5 marks between 1 and 2, 2 and 3 etc). Initially 17g in and 10secs to first drip. 35secs in total (so 25 secs of coffee pour) and I have 30.9 grams. Using Rave Specialty Blend and my Lelit Bianca. Eased off burrs and found initially all fairly inconsistent and was getting frustrated. Now after around 1kg of beans through - inc 250g of stale beans left in the cupboard last Christmas, I have tightened up to 4.4 (or 4.8 etc) and am on Square Mile Red Brick. This morning was 10s to first drip, then 31 sec pour to give me 36g from 19g after a total of 41 secs. I haven't played with the pressure profiling just left the paddle far right which is fully open. I think it has been set with 5-6 secs PI as standard as the pressure dial stays at zero until 5 or 6 secs in and then climbs quite quickly to 10.5 bar and by 10secs I usually have the first drips start. So far so good, although I do find the process a bit of a faff, and a bit messy but acceptable in my search for espresso nirvana.
> 
> I bought a Londinium whisk thingy last week and have been using that to distribute and then the Lelit 58.55 tamper. Think my tamping is inconsistent though and doesn't help, but getting there.


 As long as your tamp is flat and keeps the coffe in the PF when turned upside down , then it isn't have much of am impact as you think it is.

Which part would you like to streamline more? How does the coffee taste ( i have a bianca , do i not have a monolith )

With the bianca your paddle is controlling the flow of water, this in combination with the dose and grind will result in a pressure and the Group. altering the Paddle wil change the flow , it may not always change the pressure ( dose and grind dependent ) .


----------



## Chainlinephil

I now only level, tho until I get a second leveller I do use my tamper in the smaller, std LR, tapered 18g basket with 16.5 g dose and some nutation but very low pressure (not close to my torque tamper I used to use) 
In the IMS 18/20 flat side basket for which I dose 22g I use the leveller and that's it, basically under its own weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Buster

I usually make a 'cappuccino' with very weak 'latte art'. Taste in the cup has been good overall just a bit inconsistent - sometimes mellow sometimes super strong sometimes a bit sour, or perhaps bitter - my palate not yet distinguishing between sour and bitter.

I havent played with profiling at all, just trying to get consistently good drinks with the paddle on fully open. Once I achieve that then I will start to experiment with PI and slowing the pour.

I bought a set of small glass spice jars with sealed wooded lids and pre-weigh 18g into them. Then 2 cappus each morning. Chuck the beans in the Monolith, Lelit portafilter with VSG 18g basket and the monolith funnel and press the green LED. Give all a stir with the Londinium whisk and then tamp with the Lelit tamper and into the group head, lift the lever and watch. Then weigh the result. I know roughly where the level is on the cup for circa 35-40g, so that is fairly consistent. But I think tamping does make a difference. Sometimes I have a longer brew time and the only difference I can think of is that I have tamped a bit firmer, and sometimes a faster brew when I think I may have tamped a bit lighter.

I have ordered a Decent Expresso tamper which is spring loaded at 15kg I think, so will see if that makes a difference when it arrives. Hoping that might remove some of my inconsistency.

Does anyone think distributor/levelers are worth adding to the process? And if you level with a distributor do you also then tamp or not?


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## Chainlinephil

@RobW do you mean 'High uniformity' as opposed to low?

My Ceado has high uniformity so a very narrow band of particle size and very few fines, resulting in this 'EK' like extraction ( I haven't used an EK its just what I'm informed by those that have) whereby it speeds up very quickly towards the end of a shot, I assumed perhaps wrongly) that the Max was similar. It does also result in some very long PI times with my Londinium LR for target shot times of 30--35s for a 16.5g dose > 33g yield. With the occasional very long extraction and PI that turns into a nice surprise in flavour


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## Chainlinephil

Buster said:


> I usually make a 'cappuccino' with very weak 'latte art'. Taste in the cup has been good overall just a bit inconsistent - sometimes mellow sometimes super strong sometimes a bit sour, or perhaps bitter - my palate not yet distinguishing between sour and bitter.
> 
> I havent played with profiling at all, just trying to get consistently good drinks with the paddle on fully open. Once I achieve that then I will start to experiment with PI and slowing the pour.
> 
> I bought a set of small glass spice jars with sealed wooded lids and pre-weigh 18g into them. Then 2 cappus each morning. Chuck the beans in the Monolith, Lelit portafilter with VSG 18g basket and the monolith funnel and press the green LED. Give all a stir with the Londinium whisk and then tamp with the Lelit tamper and into the group head, lift the lever and watch. Then weigh the result. I know roughly where the level is on the cup for circa 35-40g, so that is fairly consistent. But I think tamping does make a difference. Sometimes I have a longer brew time and the only difference I can think of is that I have tamped a bit firmer, and sometimes a faster brew when I think I may have tamped a bit lighter.
> 
> I have ordered a Decent Expresso tamper which is spring loaded at 15kg I think, so will see if that makes a difference when it arrives. Hoping that might remove some of my inconsistency.
> 
> Does anyone think distributor/levelers are worth adding to the process? And if you level with a distributor do you also then tamp or not?


 I found a torque or spring tamper did improve my consistency.

I personally now don't tamp after levelling I just grind accordingly to get the yield I want.

with a ridged basket you can see if you have tamped level. Also based on eye from the sides of the temper in my view so personally I'm one or the other not both.


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## RobW

Chainlinephil said:


> @RobW do you mean 'High uniformity' as opposed to low?


 I meant to say low fines. That's the only definite thing I know about these burrs. The way SSP talk about high/low/ultra low is confusing and I think the Max burrs are different to the ones for EK as they are optimised for low speeds.


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## MildredM

Quite a few MAX owners are opting for a leather grinder mat to protect the base. Having used various leathers I have to say I am even happier with this 3mm veg tan pre dyed leather. I have been trying some tooling. And finally the little coffee cup logo stamp arrived yesterday for embossing the leather.


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## Nicknak

MildredM said:


> Quite a few MAX owners are opting for a leather grinder mat to protect the base. Having used various leathers I have to say I am even happier with this 3mm veg tan pre dyed leather. I have been trying some tooling. And finally the little coffee cup logo stamp arrived yesterday for embossing the leather.
> 
> View attachment 43662
> 
> 
> View attachment 43663
> 
> 
> View attachment 43664
> 
> 
> View attachment 43665


 Are you trying to emulate Kafatek 😂 I bought one of these mats and now find they have been upgraded 🤯 .. 😢


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## Jollybean

These look great Mildred. Beautiful work as ever. I love the one you did for my HG1.


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## viveur

Re: portafilter fork waggle: I am indeed able get some waggle too if I actively try to waggle around - but the portafilter does still sit securely while grinding. (I recently readjusted the forks wider to be able to fit a portafilter with a Tidaka funnel on top - the Tidaka funnel doesn't have the inner lip that the Kafatek funnel has, but OTOH it's wider on the outside, which required adjusting the forks to fit. So the forks are now wider than the portafilter would require because of the wider funnel, but the portafilter is still secure if not bulletproof.)

Re: Max grind fineness: I have the most recent Max batch, and I haven't ground that much yet (so I imagine things will change over time) - I had no issues getting normal extraction times at around 4 for the Caffe Lusso that came with the grinder, and also Square Mile's Red Brick - now that I'm using some Finca Tamana/Wendelboe beans I had to move down to just over 2. (The Wendelboe light roasts are the real reason I went for this grinder 🙂.) My setup is: E61 (Expobar Leva DB), which has some preinfusion. Now using a VST 18g basket (I did try the EPHQ 14g ridged that came with the Max, but on the Lusso it tasted a bit underextracted compared to the VST, so I switched back to VST since then). Pressure at 8-8.5 bar, first drop appears at around 12s, and I have managed to get 1:2 shots anywhere in the range of 20-40s depending on adjustment - I haven't tried anything slower, those are just the times I hit while dialling in (somewhere around 35s is tastiest for the Finca Tamana, but I'm still experimenting.)

HOWEVER I find it quite easy to get channeling with the VST, so sometimes I'll get a shot taking just over 20s, tasting weird, at the same setting that previously gave me a 35s extraction. (Also happened once or twice with the EPHQ, but the VST is trickier.)

(Now I'm sorely tempted to get the Levtamp... have I spent too much time in Kafatek land?)


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## RobW

Well I just pulled a shot of Rave Burundi Gisha which is a light roast. 18g into an 18g VST basket. PI set to 5.0 and Max grind set to 0.0. About 8 seconds to first drips and then total PI + extraction time of 30 seconds for 38g out. A tasty beverage, but still bothers me that I am pretty much at the limit on grind setting. Oddly my zero point seems to have drifted from 0.25 to around -0.25 over just a couple of days, but still doesn't give me much room for manoeuvre. @viveur is your burr touch at 0? If so I can only think that there must be some variation in the burr sets.


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## MildredM

RobW said:


> Well I just pulled a shot of Rave Burundi Gisha which is a light roast. 18g into an 18g VST basket. PI set to 5.0 and Max grind set to 0.0. About 8 seconds to first drips and then total PI + extraction time of 30 seconds for 38g out. A tasty beverage, but still bothers me that I am pretty much at the limit on grind setting. Oddly my zero point seems to have drifted from 0.25 to around -0.25 over just a couple of days, but still doesn't give me much room for manoeuvre. @viveur is your burr touch at 0? If so I can only think that there must be some variation in the burr sets.


 Out of interest how much headroom is there with 18g in?
I'm dosing 16g in 14g baskets now  choked the machine yesterday when I changed beans and forgot to go a bit coarser! 3 minute shot anyone 🤣


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## RobW

MildredM said:


> Out of interest how much headroom is there with 18g in?
> I'm dosing 16g in 14g baskets now  choked the machine yesterday when I changed beans and forgot to go a bit coarser! 3 minute shot anyone 🤣


 Headroom is tight but OK. Just brushes the screen prior to pulling the shot. After shot once the grounds have swelled I get an imprint of the screen. From what I have read on here or Londinium forum this is OK. If I go smaller on the dose the shots just run faster as I cannot grind any tighter. Switching to a 20g VST for more headroom doesn't really change anything.


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## Chainlinephil

RobW said:


> Well I just pulled a shot of Rave Burundi Gisha which is a light roast. 18g into an 18g VST basket. PI set to 5.0 and Max grind set to 0.0. About 8 seconds to first drips and then total PI + extraction time of 30 seconds for 38g out. A tasty beverage, but still bothers me that I am pretty much at the limit on grind setting. Oddly my zero point seems to have drifted from 0.25 to around -0.25 over just a couple of days, but still doesn't give me much room for manoeuvre.@viveur is your burr touch at 0? If so I can only think that there must be some variation in the burr sets.


I couldn't get what I wanted out of the Rave Burundi no matter what I tried.

However... the Honduras Con Clave del Sole is amazing and I be just ordered another KG! must be my 3rd...

Point is that grinds somewhat finer the Burundi with my set up (Ceado E37Z or MC1) and the Londinium for a nice extraction, could be worth a try as a test.

I haven't come across anything else requiring a finer grind for espresso even amongst light beans

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nicknak

RobW said:


> Well I just pulled a shot of Rave Burundi Gisha which is a light roast. 18g into an 18g VST basket. PI set to 5.0 and Max grind set to 0.0. About 8 seconds to first drips and then total PI + extraction time of 30 seconds for 38g out. A tasty beverage, but still bothers me that I am pretty much at the limit on grind setting. Oddly my zero point seems to have drifted from 0.25 to around -0.25 over just a couple of days, but still doesn't give me much room for manoeuvre. @viveur is your burr touch at 0? If so I can only think that there must be some variation in the burr sets.


 Rob from reading the Kafatek forum , the people who received their grinders in Feb 2020 had the lottery of several different coatings . All those after have had the red coloured Burrs . Those that ordered in the recent will get the new in house burrs ..


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## RobW

Nicknak said:


> Rob from reading the Kafatek forum , the people who received their grinders in Feb 2020 had the lottery of several different coatings . All those after have had the red coloured Burrs . Those that ordered in the recent will get the new in house burrs ..


 I have the red coloured burrs. I've seen some comments about a changeover in the February batch. I don't recall seeing any production update about a change, or any discussion anywhere about the reason. Did I miss something?



Chainlinephil said:


> I couldn't get what I wanted out of the Rave Burundi no matter what I tried.
> 
> However... the Honduras Con Clave del Sole is amazing and I be just ordered another KG! must be my 3rd...
> 
> Point is that grinds somewhat finer the Burundi with my set up (Ceado E37Z or MC1) and the Londinium for a nice extraction, could be worth a try as a test.
> 
> I haven't come across anything else requiring a finer grind for espresso even amongst light beans
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I'll have to give the Clave del Sol a go, but if it needs a finer grind than the Burundi Gisha I may struggle. The coffee that I've really struggled with so far has been the anaerobic natural Colombian Maracay from Kiss the Hippo. Really interesting flavours, but had to switch over to the MC3 as I could not grind tight enough on the Max.


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## Nicknak

RobW said:


> I have the red coloured burrs. I've seen some comments about a changeover in the February batch. I don't recall seeing any production update about a change, or any discussion anywhere about the reason. Did I miss something?
> 
> I'll have to give the Clave del Sol a go, but if it needs a finer grind than the Burundi Gisha I may struggle. The coffee that I've really struggled with so far has been the anaerobic natural Colombian Maracay from Kiss the Hippo. Really interesting flavours, but had to switch over to the MC3 as I could not grind tight enough on the Max.


 Rob it is the forum somewhere where Denis confirmed it .. There hasn't been any comment that I have read that gives the reason behind the change in burrs from the original Silver burrs . I have kept an eye on the forum during the time I waited for my Max to arrive .

These burrs that are supposed to creat really low amounts of fines are quite challenging in what I have got used to in prep ,time of extractions , preinfusion and flow control with the Monolith flat and HG1 ..

When I started using it I was at a starting point of 4 for most coffees with first chirp at .08 .. The coffee today I am 1.3 or thereabouts with first chirp on the burrs of about .05 now

I have stopped using the flow control on my E61 now as it doesn't seem to have any improvement on taste . Also any extended pre infusions seem to cause very quick pours that I didn't get with the flat ..

The taste improvements with the Max over the flat are quite noticeable

I know it might be quite sacrilegious to suggest to a lever head .. have you tried a shot without pre infusion 😬


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## L&R

RobW said:


> I I could not grind tight enough on the Max.


 My Max is on the way I really hope it could grind fine enough otherwise it will be disappointing.


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## Nicknak

L&R said:


> My Max is on the way I really hope it could grind fine enough otherwise it will be disappointing.


 I am sure with these burrs they are capable of grinding very very fine , the problem seem to be the resulting puck perhaps because of the lack of fines doesn't offer the same amount of resistance that we normally expect at this fine grind ..

You are getting the new burrs 😂 .. If they produce less fines you will be in for lots of fun 😳


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## viveur

RobW said:


> @viveur is your burr touch at 0? If so I can only think that there must be some variation in the burr sets.


 I will try to test tomorrow, since I've never actually gone below 2. I'm guessing burrs touching = the "chirping" sound (sorry, I've never actually tested before hence my silly questions).

(Just to be 100% clear - my Max was preordered - I think - in Feb 2020, assembled and delivered in July 2020 - and it sounds like you might have been the Feb 2020 assembled group?)

For more head-scratching, this person on the Kafatek forum is also seeing extremely short shot times even at 0 with light roasts, although they do like the taste: [link requires account/login at the Kafatek forum] https://forums.kafatek.com/t/new-max-seasoning-and-dialling-in/2274/112 Their extraction times might actually be similar to mine though, assuming that their machine has no preinfusion (although I'm not 100% sure how long the preinfusion on my E61 really takes).


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## RobW

Nicknak said:


> Rob it is the forum somewhere where Denis confirmed it .. There hasn't been any comment that I have read that gives the reason behind the change in burrs from the original Silver burrs . I have kept an eye on the forum during the time I waited for my Max to arrive .
> 
> These burrs that are supposed to creat really low amounts of fines are quite challenging in what I have got used to in prep ,time of extractions , preinfusion and flow control with the Monolith flat and HG1 ..
> 
> When I started using it I was at a starting point of 4 for most coffees with first chirp at .08 .. The coffee today I am 1.3 or thereabouts with first chirp on the burrs of about .05 now
> 
> I have stopped using the flow control on my E61 now as it doesn't seem to have any improvement on taste . Also any extended pre infusions seem to cause very quick pours that I didn't get with the flat ..
> 
> The taste improvements with the Max over the flat are quite noticeable
> 
> I know it might be quite sacrilegious to suggest to a lever head .. have you tried a shot without pre infusion 😬


 Sacrilege indeed 😱. If you promise not to tell the other lever heads I may give it a go and see how that goes. I did think about doing a flat 6 bar shot (no raising lever).

Just done a search on the Kafatek forum, maybe this post: https://forums.kafatek.com/t/flat-max-and-low-pressure-issue-w-blooming-profiles/3166?


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## RobW

viveur said:


> I will try to test tomorrow, since I've never actually gone below 2. I'm guessing burrs touching = the "chirping" sound (sorry, I've never actually tested before hence my silly questions).
> 
> (Just to be 100% clear - my Max was preordered - I think - in Feb 2020, assembled and delivered in July 2020 - and it sounds like you might have been the Feb 2020 assembled group?)
> 
> For more head-scratching, this person on the Kafatek forum is also seeing extremely short shot times even at 0 with light roasts, although they do like the taste: [link requires account/login at the Kafatek forum] https://forums.kafatek.com/t/new-max-seasoning-and-dialling-in/2274/112 Their extraction times might actually be similar to mine though, assuming that their machine has no preinfusion (although I'm not 100% sure how long the preinfusion on my E61 really takes).


 My Max is latest batch, just had it a couple of weeks, so we have the same burrs. Yes, as you slowly move the burrs closer whilst grinder is running you will be able to hear a slight chirping.

I have some Finca Tamana/Wendelboe beans on the way in my next Dog & Hat order so it'll be interesting to compare those to your experience. I think the stock E61 preinfusion is pretty minimal IIRC which might be a good thing with the Max.


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## coffeechap

Chainlinephil said:


> I couldn't get what I wanted out of the Rave Burundi no matter what I tried.
> 
> However... the Honduras Con Clave del Sole is amazing and I be just ordered another KG! must be my 3rd...
> 
> Point is that grinds somewhat finer the Burundi with my set up (Ceado E37Z or MC1) and the Londinium for a nice extraction, could be worth a try as a test.
> 
> I haven't come across anything else requiring a finer grind for espresso even amongst light beans
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Have you tried the Chinese beans from race yet !!!!


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## Chainlinephil

coffeechap said:


> Have you tried the Chinese beans from race yet !!!!


No. I thought about it. Do they need finer still!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## viveur

RobW said:


> My Max is latest batch, just had it a couple of weeks, so we have the same burrs. Yes, as you slowly move the burrs closer whilst grinder is running you will be able to hear a slight chirping.
> 
> I have some Finca Tamana/Wendelboe beans on the way in my next Dog & Hat order so it'll be interesting to compare those to your experience. I think the stock E61 preinfusion is pretty minimal IIRC which might be a good thing with the Max.


 I'm increasingly convinced I might be the odd one out - lots of people on the Kafatek forums seem to report experiences closer to yours (close to 0 grind setting, very fast shots). Am I lucky? Am I unlucky? Am I just doing something weird? Is everyone else doing something weird.

One thing I should've added: my current Wendelboe beans are quite old - 5 weeks from roast (they were forgotten in a postal warehouse for most of that time I suspect, deliveries earlier this year were much faster). That's surprisingly still tasty, but could affect extraction behaviour. I used to be keen on fresher coffees, but recently stum bled across La Cabra's postings on bean freshness - they suggest that 4 weeks is actually good for light roasts - and I guess the same maps to Wendelboe beans.


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## Nicknak

viveur said:


> I'm increasingly convinced I might be the odd one out - lots of people on the Kafatek forums seem to report experiences closer to yours (close to 0 grind setting, very fast shots). Am I lucky? Am I unlucky? Am I just doing something weird? Is everyone else doing something weird.
> 
> One thing I should've added: my current Wendelboe beans are quite old - 5 weeks from roast (they were forgotten in a postal warehouse for most of that time I suspect, deliveries earlier this year were much faster). That's surprisingly still tasty, but could affect extraction behaviour. I used to be keen on fresher coffees, but recently stum bled across La Cabra's postings on bean freshness - they suggest that 4 weeks is actually good for light roasts - and I guess the same maps to Wendelboe beans.


 I will be interested to see where you are after 9kg through it .. fingers crossed


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## Buster

About 1 month in with my Flat with red ssp Speed burrs and am slightly underwhelmed. Probably had about 1kg through (inc 250g of stale beans). Currently on Coffee Compass Sweet Bourbon, after 250 or 300g of Red Brick Sq Mile., preceded by 250g Rave Espresso blend and first beans through were the remains of a bag of Rave Speciality blend. Have steadily tightened grind from 5.4 as set on arrival to now 4.3 (out of 4.5 - only 5 marks between 4 and 5) and motor running at 650rpm (Denis advised against reducing speed until I have had several kgs through) . I am getting a decent brew but not quite the night and day improvement I was expecting over the Specialita. Equipment is admittedly way ahead of my skill set, started Dec 19 with a Classic and Specialita, then added a Niche (sold when Monolith shipped) and added a Lelit Bianca (upgraditis did set in), and I am finding its all quite inconsistent. I make 2 x 18g milk drinks each morning and occasionally an afternoon espresso. Tamping definitely needs improvement - packed a puck this pm and thought I'd turn it upside down to check it stayed in, and it didn't! Fell out all over the counter. Have done the same test occasionally before and all sytayed in basket. But thought I had been quite firm with the tamper this pm....

I haven't tried to calibrate the burrs or find the zero point, just started with it as set up by Denis and have tightened two or three times since as I look for circa 32 secs and 36-40g in cup. Hario v60 scales but I'm sure they are not particularly reliable as I have double checked a couple of bean measurements and got different readings for the same up or Downe by 3 or 4g in 18g sometimes. Am planning to 'upgrade' the scales too!

My brew looks very dark and has a heavy looking crema (hopefully photo comes through)



files... 


Any help, tips welcome!

Also, aiming for 25 - 32 secs for 36-40g from 18g coffee. Is that from lifting lever or from first drip in cup? The Lelit seems set to low pressure for 3/4 secs, nothing shows on dial then goes up to around 10.5 on teh dial over the next 3/4 secs. I have not touched dates paddle, just left it over the right which is the 'open' side. Thought I'd try to just get consistently good espresso first before experimenting with paddle, pre-infusion etc.

In all honesty I think the Classic and the Specialita are giving as a good a cup possibly better!! Lelit definitely better on the milk steaming though!


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## Buster




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## Eklektik

Thinking about the Mono Flat + SSP HU. Currently owning a Niche Zero and I drink mainly espresso with preference to medium to medium-dark roasts. Anyone having both grinders that can share anything? Is it worth the upgrade to a bigger flat burr if I'm not that keen on lighter roasts?


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## olivier

Have a Niche Zero and a Mono Flat with SSP RedSpeed burrs (although I believe they're LU?). I'm more into lighter roasts, using mainly "filter" beans for espresso, and for those I would definitely rate the Monolith above the Niche (as you'd expect as it's flat vs conical), with the latter still performing well.

On darker roasts, the difference was minimal. Different tastes, but without one easily identifiable as being "better".

If you're more into medium-dark roasts, I'd say the upgrade isn't particularly worth it. Then again, it''s a hobby, if you can afford it and are curious, why not giving it a go? Both will re-sell well.


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## RobW

Eklektik said:


> Thinking about the Mono Flat + SSP HU. Currently owning a Niche Zero and I drink mainly espresso with preference to medium to medium-dark roasts. Anyone having both grinders that can share anything? Is it worth the upgrade to a bigger flat burr if I'm not that keen on lighter roasts?


 If you are into medium to medium-dark roasts why not consider the Monolith conical? The new MC4 version sounds interesting, but the MC3 is a hugely capable grinder and so easy to use. Denis has said the MC4 offers only a slight improvement. I have both MC3 and Max and there are differences in taste between the two but for medium roasts one is not "better" than the other.

On LU vs HU burrs, all I know is that the Max comes with what SSP call LU burrs. These were created because Denis asked for changes to the HU design for the Max. There is no definitive data that I have found as to the differences in particle sizes between the two. Dunno what is put in the flat. Anyhow, next round of grinders will feature Denis' own burrs created in house. Personally I would wait until people report experiences with those after the next production run. Another reason to consider the underrated conical if you are in a hurry to part with your cash!


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## MildredM

Eklektik said:


> Thinking about the Mono Flat + SSP HU. Currently owning a Niche Zero and I drink mainly espresso with preference to medium to medium-dark roasts. Anyone having both grinders that can share anything? Is it worth the upgrade to a bigger flat burr if I'm not that keen on lighter roasts?


 You might find you want to dabble with lighter roasts if you had a flat


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## Eklektik

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate it. I do like the MC3 and was thinking of actually waiting on the MC4, not sure if the price will go up or not. I'm more leaning towards flats for espresso hence the SSP HU need. 
As to learning to like light roasts that might be true, it's not that I don't like them but it's that I can't really pull good shots with them compared to the medium and above on my La Pavoni. I really doubt that when I get a Londinium Compact (hopefully it comes out finally) later this year, much will change with those roasts and the NZ. This is why I feel that a good big flat with SSP HU will do good for me for both light to medium-dark roasts.
Other idea is to hold on to the NZ as I'm questioning how much of a taste jump the MC3/MC4 would produce for the medium and above roast and get a Lagom p64 for the light to medium-light roasts with SSP HU and have something decent for both roast types but I really want to be done with the grinders and not feel that I can do better in a year so who knows.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nicknak

@RobW did you overcome the issues you were having with the LR and Max Red Speed combo .. Your experience and a few others have put a hold on me getting a LR ..


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## Chainlinephil

@Nicknak That would seem a strange way around, a grinder unable to grind fine enough affecting machine choice! I can only imagine something to do with the burrs not grinder.

I have the Ceado Hero Naked as mentioned and could easily choke the machine even on super fine grind beans.

The two closest at the moment are KissTheHippo Estevez anaerobic (see video on my LR thread) and today's Origin Huella pulped natural. Its seems the weather has changed today and everything is 2 notches finer compared to yesterday! I'm still 5 notches off my 'safety zero point' which isn't zero cos I'm a wuss and won't run the grinder till I hear the burrs!

I asked my wife to try my 'new' espresso today. she does not drink strong coffee or espresso but I promised her I've got better 🙂 and its not like espresso from restaurants...

She tried my Huella and then Estevez and nailed the main bag notes of Grapefruit/orange (she didn't like it as she doesn't like grapefruit) and Blackberry blind AND said (the second) wasn't gross. I did a little dance! Thankyou LR and forum for my education; grinder, machine, water etc etc...

My friend has commandeered my MC1 at the moment...I'm missing it and he's playing 'busy' 😂


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## Nicknak

Chainlinephil said:


> @Nicknak That would seem a strange way around, a grinder unable to grind fine enough affecting machine choice! I can only imagine something to do with the burrs not grinder.
> 
> I have the Ceado Hero Naked as mentioned and could easily choke the machine even on super fine grind beans.
> 
> The two closest at the moment are KissTheHippo Estevez anaerobic (see video on my LR thread) and today's Origin Huella pulped natural. Its seems the weather has changed today and everything is 2 notches finer compared to yesterday! I'm still 5 notches off my 'safety zero point' which isn't zero cos I'm a wuss and won't run the grinder till I hear the burrs!
> 
> I asked my wife to try my 'new' espresso today. she does not drink strong coffee or espresso but I promised her I've got better 🙂 and its not like espresso from restaurants...
> 
> She tried my Huella and then Estevez and nailed the main bag notes of Grapefruit/orange (she didn't like it as she doesn't like grapefruit) and Blackberry blind AND said (the second) wasn't gross. I did a little dance! Thankyou LR and forum for my education; grinder, machine, water etc etc...
> 
> My friend has commandeered my MC1 at the moment...I'm missing it and he's playing 'busy' 😂


 I have a Profitec 700 with flow control which is making great coffee for me combined with the Max .. It is really difficult to explain the Max with red speed burrs can grind really fine but the prepared puck offers less resistant to other burr geometry.. It has been explained that these burrs as opposed to the previous burrs fitted in the Max have far fewer fines , which makes sense to what I see .. If I ground as fine as the Max on my Monolith flat I would totally be choking the machine . With the Profitec I have no problems with the Max and have the burrs set on 1.2 and 1.8 with burr touch last time I check at about 0.5 .

Several people with the LR and Red Speed Max have reported grinding at near burr touch and struggling to maintain an even extraction . I have always fancied a Good spring Lever hence my question ..


----------



## Chainlinephil

Nicknak said:


> I have a Profitec 700 with flow control which is making great coffee for me combined with the Max .. It is really difficult to explain the Max with red speed burrs can grind really fine but the prepared puck offers less resistant to other burr geometry.. It has been explained that these burrs as opposed to the previous burrs fitted in the Max have far fewer fines , which makes sense to what I see .. If I ground as fine as the Max on my Monolith flat I would totally be choking the machine . With the Profitec I have no problems with the Max and have the burrs set on 1.2 and 1.8 with burr touch last time I check at about 0.5 .
> 
> Several people with the LR and Red Speed Max have reported grinding at near burr touch and struggling to maintain an even extraction . I have always fancied a Good spring Lever hence my question ..


 I should have said, the Ceado is Ultra unimodal. even comes with results and a graph of grind distribution and coffee references tested at the factory to demonstrate how tight the distribution is.

It definitely runs like an EK. You grind fine and to get a 30-40s extraction it usually results in a long PI to fists drops, almost always in excess of 10s, 20-25s not unusual at all, and then it still speeds up significantly, its an exponential curve towards the end.

Completely different extraction profile to the MC1 or even the Mythos.

But would dose adjustment and basket choice not influence the outcome with the Max redspeed. I don't believe a unimodal/tight particle size distribution nature should cause the issue based on the data and my experience with the Ceado. In fact as @MildredM has no issues with her LR and max it must be a specific burr thing.


----------



## Mrboots2u

How is unattainable unimodal every defined or it is just a marketing term


----------



## Chainlinephil

Unimodal is a defined term and refers to a distribution curve, meaning only one peak I believe..


----------



## RobW

Nicknak said:


> @RobW did you overcome the issues you were having with the LR and Max Red Speed combo .. Your experience and a few others have put a hold on me getting a LR ..


 My issues were related to the grinder not the LR. My experience should in no way stop you getting an LR. People with other machines have had the same experience.

On the grinder, suffice to say that Denis has been very helpful and my issues have been successfully resolved.


----------



## Nicknak

RobW said:


> My issues were related to the grinder not the LR. My experience should in no way stop you getting an LR. People with other machines have had the same experience.
> 
> On the grinder, suffice to say that Denis has been very helpful and my issues have been successfully resolved.


 Yes I have the same grinder and I was looking for perhaps more in the way of how you overcame the problems if you had been successful with the LR .. Good to hear all is well


----------



## viveur

RobW said:


> On LU vs HU burrs, all I know is that the Max comes with what SSP call LU burrs. These were created because Denis asked for changes to the HU design for the Max. There is no definitive data that I have found as to the differences in particle sizes between the two. Dunno what is put in the flat. Anyhow, next round of grinders will feature Denis' own burrs created in house. Personally I would wait until people report experiences with those after the next production run. Another reason to consider the underrated conical if you are in a hurry to part with your cash!


 I was under the impression that: HU has a tighter main peak, but also more fines. LU has a wider peak (hence less uniform) but also less fines. Don't quote me on this, I'm just a lowly Max with LU owner .

Now I guess you can argue about which is theoretically better - Denis along with his close testers preferred the LU in taste (although it also seems to be trickier in terms of shot prep, and results in surprisingly fast shots). I'm personally cslightly urious about comparing them myself, on the other hand I'm more than happy with what I get out of the LU burrs.

Back on the fast shot times topic: I'm now approaching 3kg with my Max - I'm still getting normalish shot times with light roasts at around 2.0 to 2.5 on the grinding scale (depending on coffee - but typically 2.0 for 1:1.5 shots, 2.5 for 1:2 shots). My zero point/burr chirping is just above zero (so as expected), but I am brewing with around 8 bars which might be different from other people here? It'll take me a while to reach the 8-10kg at which point my grinder might be considered "seasoned" though, and I promise to report back again then since I'm aware behaviour can change quite a bit during those first 8-10kg. [Most importantly, the shots are generally very tasty, although I've been struggling a bit with my most recent coffee - La Cabra Alto Bonito - which is surprising, since I had amazing results with La Cabra's Francisco Salucio directly beforehand.]


----------



## MWJB

Chainlinephil said:


> Unimodal is a defined term and refers to a distribution curve, meaning only one peak I believe..


 Depending on how you measure, this can apply to all coffee grinders. You need to specify the method of analysis & data point intervals.

Using LPA, there don't appear to be any unimodal grinders in the espresso range.


----------



## Chainlinephil

MWJB said:


> Depending on how you measure, this can apply to all coffee grinders. You need to specify the method of analysis & data point intervals.
> 
> Using LPA, there don't appear to be any unimodal grinders in the espresso range.


 Surely not for the term. It means one peak on a distribution curve. Bimodal would mean 2, they could be miles apart on the X axis, they could be very close. The questions was is it a marketing term, answer no 🙂

If making specific comparisons using data. totally agree.

The Ceado I referred to has a very 'tight' peak, but of course still produces a range of particle sizes and its coffee dependent etc etc. I was really trying to explain my experiences with this kind of grind output. I find I do grind very fine, with long PI periods then a slow start to a shot and then it speeds up very quickly to my target brew ratio of approx 2:1 for a target time of typically 30-40s, for the 'main' extraction.


----------



## MWJB

Chainlinephil said:


> Surely not for the term. It means one peak on a distribution curve. Bimodal would mean 2, they could be miles apart on the X axis, they could be very close. The questions was is it a marketing term, answer no 🙂


 OK, it may not be a marketing term specifically, but it is a misused term with respect to espresso range, as it is not known to exist.


----------



## MarkyP

I've got red speed burrs in my EK43 and I do get very close to chirp with some coffees...

I tend to muck about with dose and grind to get the balance right with my L1.

I still see >20s PI shots that are great, some not so great!


----------



## MildredM

Have we mentioned the Mc4-DUO yet? Haven't read back through the thread. Build on schedule and delivery on target for later this year


----------



## viveur

MildredM said:


> Have we mentioned the Mc4-DUO yet? Haven't read back through the thread. Build on schedule and delivery on target for later this year


 I'm just waiting for the Max-2-DUO 😃. There's a tantalising hint on the Kafatek forum that Denis might at least be testing the concept, although he didn't actually confirm anything (since he does like to make sure a new design actually tastes better I suppose).

On a more serious note - pretty happy with the Max so far, so I don't think I've got any reason to upgrade even if it does happen. But I am certainly glad these ideas are being tested and implemented.


----------



## RobW

viveur said:


> I'm just waiting for the Max-2-DUO 😃. There's a tantalising hint on the Kafatek forum that Denis might at least be testing the concept, although he didn't actually confirm anything (since he does like to make sure a new design actually tastes better I suppose).
> 
> On a more serious note - pretty happy with the Max so far, so I don't think I've got any reason to upgrade even if it does happen. But I am certainly glad these ideas are being tested and implemented.


 If you are referring to the post I think you are then I read it differently. I took his comment to mean he wasn't considering such a concept. He was honest enough to say that the MC4 is only a marginal improvement on the MC3. I'm not sure there is much left on the table taste wise.

After living with my Max for a couple of months it just makes me appreciate the MC3 even more. There is a definite taste difference between the two grinders, but one is not better than the other. I was expecting a big improvement in light roasts but I just have not seen that.

The MC3 wins on practicality for me. It has way less static (mine has coated burrs). The Max struggles sometimes with large beans or peaberries just popcorning around and not feeding into the burrs. The Max has greater retention on the "wipers", around 0.2g whereas the MC3 is pretty much 0g. Luckily you can slow it down to 5rpm to give it a clean. I get way more grinds stuck in the new chute design with the plastic insert.


----------



## Carlo

I have some reservations on that chute with the plastic sleeve. I get lots of coffe stuck on it...when I say a lot I mean about 0.2-0.3 grams consistently. Denis is looking into this. I think it really depends on the coffee you use (for me predominantly dark roast) and on environmental variables (humidity, maybe temperature).


----------



## shaunlawler

I'm looking at trying to get a Monolith Flat Max as an upgrade from the Niche Zero to pair with the DE1+.

Does anyone know when the preorders open again and have any tips on how to secure one before they all sell out...?


----------



## Jony

Just sign up then he emails you few days before.


----------



## RobW

shaunlawler said:


> I'm looking at trying to get a Monolith Flat Max as an upgrade from the Niche Zero to pair with the DE1+.
> 
> Does anyone know when the preorders open again and have any tips on how to secure one before they all sell out...?


 Think really carefully about whether a Max is the right choice. The MC4 might be a better choice depending on your tastes. I have an MC3 and a Max. The MC3 gets more use...


----------



## shaunlawler

RobW said:


> Think really carefully about whether a Max is the right choice. The MC4 might be a better choice depending on your tastes. I have an MC3 and a Max. The MC3 gets more use...


Interesting - what's the main difference you find between the MC3 and Max?

I do enjoy lighter/light-medium roasts and I am looking for a flat burr grinder that is a good quality option for this.

If the MC4 would be a better fit for me, I'm certainly not against it, as it is cheaper, although I have heard that it's not a million miles away from other conical grinders, like the Niche.

I do appreciate any hands on experience you have though.


----------



## RobW

Worth saying that I have the SSP LU burrs not the latest Shuriken ones. Hard to give you solid information on the taste differences. Some beans taste better on one, some on the other. The MC3 does a really good job on most light roasts. I just prefer the ease of use and lack of finickyness of the MC3. I prefer the Max for brewed. I can get away with VST baskets on the Max but it is messier. I just don't think the Max is worth the extra expense.

Have you seen this:


----------



## shaunlawler

I have seen that - and it does throw a bit of a spanner in the works.

Coming from the Niche, I wanted to try a flat burr grinder and the Flat Max seemed the best of the bunch really, although you do pay for that and have to wait to get on a preorder.

I appreciate that puck preparation will be more important on a flat and want to make sure I get a grinder that I am happy with for the long-term.

I may need to do some more research and work out what the specific differences are in the cup and which burr profile best suits the kind of coffee I drink.

In an ideal world I would have both but can't really justify the cost (and space) at the moment.


----------



## RobW

If you want a flat why not consider a Kafatek flat? Just because the Max is the biggest and most expensive does not make it the best. Although wait and see what the Hoff thinks at the end of the week 🤔


----------



## shaunlawler

Yes - good point.

I will need to hold off anyway until the preorders open again...


----------



## Rincewind

RobW said:


> ...wait and see what the Hoff thinks at the end of the week...


 Have you got a link to the vids please Rob, many thanks in advance 😋


----------



## Marocchino

Hey @RumpelstiltskinI just read through this thread and at the risk of butting in, the vids you want are available on James Hoffman's YT channel

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCMb0O2CdPBNi-QqPk5T3gsQ


----------



## Rob1

shaunlawler said:


> I have seen that - and it does throw a bit of a spanner in the works.
> 
> Coming from the Niche, I wanted to try a flat burr grinder and the Flat Max seemed the best of the bunch really, although you do pay for that and have to wait to get on a preorder.
> 
> I appreciate that puck preparation will be more important on a flat and want to make sure I get a grinder that I am happy with for the long-term.
> 
> I may need to do some more research and work out what the specific differences are in the cup and which burr profile best suits the kind of coffee I drink.
> 
> In an ideal world I would have both but can't really justify the cost (and space) at the moment.


 Checked out the Nautilus from Titus Grinding? You'd save on customs duty as it's made in Germany so falls under the free trade deal with the EU, so you'd only have to pay tax to HMRC at 20%. Since you'll have made savings you'll be able to at least justify keeping the Niche as a conical option from a cost perspective....and if you find yourself not using it you can always sell it. I don't know about the availability of the Max or Nautilus for that matter but it looks like they're selling a few if you look at their instagram page. Could well be worth sending a message to them to see if/when it will be available.


----------



## Jony

That's even more money than Monolith.


----------



## Rob1

Jony said:


> That's even more money than Monolith.


 Ah, quite right. I was looking at the price of the nautilus quoted in USD as $3545 vs $3250 + approx $180 shipping? + duty and tax. I don't know where the USD figure came from though.

I've calculated it now as follows:

$3250 + $180 shipping + £499.85 VAT = £2999.13 + any forex charges (apparently there is not duty to pay according to an online calculator??)

2990 EUR in GBP = £2644.82 + £528.91 = £3173.45 + shipping

I was expecting a hefty import duty charge of about +10%


----------



## 4085

I wonder where all of this will end? I really wish someone could do a blind tasting event with all of these top end grinders up against some grinders that used to be considered top end and see if anyone can really taste the difference without knowing the cost


----------



## Jony

I agree.


----------



## coffeechap

dfk41 said:


> I wonder where all of this will end? I really wish someone could do a blind tasting event with all of these top end grinders up against some grinders that used to be considered top end and see if anyone can really taste the difference without knowing the cost


 May have just the event once the other side of the virus


----------



## Chainlinephil

I thought there was a duty charge too on Monolith. Basically price + 30% overall incl. shipping. 
I'll be happier if not at some point!


----------



## olivier

I think the 30% inc shipping on top of retail price is about right, from memory.


----------



## Buster

I paid in April & July 2020 £374 and a few pence to UPS on top of the purchase of the grinder - $3010 split into deposit of $910 and final payment of $2100. I think the UPS payment was based on the duty and VAT on the final invoice of $2100, which was part of the paperwork with the delivery. I think it worked out to be just over c.20% of the invoice for the final balance.


----------



## shaunlawler

Understood thanks


----------



## The Systemic Kid

Buster said:


> I paid in April & July 2020 £374 and a few pence to UPS on top of the purchase of the grinder - $3010 split into deposit of $910 and final payment of $2100. I think the UPS payment was based on the duty and VAT on the final invoice of $2100, which was part of the paperwork with the delivery. I think it worked out to be just over c.20% of the invoice for the final balance.


 @Buster To clarify, did you make two payment of £374.00 in April and July 2020?


----------



## Buster

No I paid the deposit of $910 in April 20, then the balance of $2100 in late June and then had the grinder delivered in early July at which point I had a UPS bill of £374.


----------



## Buster

Deposit £754.54 2nd March 2020

Balance £1744.22 26th June

Duty/VAT to UPS £374.53 8th July

Total delivered £2873.29

less than 200 coffees since!


----------



## RobW

Hoping for some wisdom from owners on here. I'm getting no help from Denis whatsoever. I'm pretty frustrated with his attitude and the history of issues with his products but I'll save that for another day.

I've have a set of the new Shuriken Sweet burrs. When I installed them I was not able to get to burr touch - the collar rotated around to about -6 or so and then would not go any further. Response from Denis was that I got a set that were both thin. No apology. Starts you wondering about his vaunted dedication to machining accuracy.

He said I would need a different gasket to go under the collar. He sent me one that was much thicker. When I installed this I have to back the collar off quite a bit as expected, but this time the collar still binds up well before burr touch.

I've described all this to Denis and he has pretty much treated me like an idiot and gone to radio silence.

For now I have reinstalled the original burrs and everything is functioning as normal.

Any ideas why the collar cannot be adjusted properly? Any ideas on things I can investigate? I am wondering if there is some damage to the thread or something stuck in it - does that make sense?


----------



## olivier

Very sorry to hear about your issues, and hopefully that gets sorted one way or the other. I can't help unfortunately.

All I have to say is that while I haven't had serious issues with my Monolith, I don't like his approach to customer service. Great product, but a little bit of humility from Denis would go a long way. I've seen how Decent (granted, they're bigger) work, and it's night and day to me.

I don't mean the above as Monolith-bashing, I'm very happy with mine and all, got helpful answers from Denis when I needed to, although I could see how some would be put off by his tone. However I've seen other interactions, so it's a warning for people who are considering buying one. So far I've never seen or heard of anyone having really serious issues with theirs (until your experience with burr swaps...), but I know I wouldn't expect fantastic customer service.


----------



## RobW

I don't want to get into Monolith bashing, but I do think there should be some balance in reports about them. Lot of people gush to justify the expense of their purchase. At some point I'll lay out the details of my experience. I have spoken to other people who have had issues with these products, so I'm not the only one.

To the current case. Denis actually came back with the following:



> I can't say without looking at the unit, but if you take the top plate off and press the upper burr carrier all the way down then check visually if burrs are touching. If they are touching then look at how much thread you have left when funnel is screwed down and stops. If there is a thread left then it can go more down.


 This morning I removed the top plate and the threads are actually sufficient for an additional 180 degrees of tightening past where I was blocked with the SSW burrs. So the issue is not caused by lack of thread on the collar or any kind of defect in the thread.

With the SSP burrs in I can press down on the upper burr carrier until it hits the body of the grinder. At that point the burrs are just about interlocking. My hypothesis is that the SSW burrs are thin enough that the upper burr carrier hits the body, so any further tightening is impossible. I came across an interesting post on the Kafatek forum which is relevant to this. One user found washers under their existing burrs:









The unasked question on this is why the washers were used in the first place. Given Denis bangs on about machining everything to the micron, and says that a speck of coffee grounds can impact alignment you have to wonder why he was happy to chuck in a bunch of washers.

My assumption is that this particular burr carrier had the same problem as I am facing so he solved it by spacing out the burr. Given how much these grinders cost, I would expect him to reject this burr carrier and solve the problem properly.


----------



## Microlot

RobW said:


> I don't want to get into Monolith bashing


 In my opinion you do,the sound of your writing in Kafatek Forum is not friendly or problem solve related at all,I understand Denis' attidue in relation to the way you write at all.


----------



## RobW

Microlot said:


> In my opinion you do,the sound of your writing in Kafatek Forum is not friendly or problem solve related at all,I understand Denis' attidue in relation to the way you write at all.


 I'm sorry if you see it that way. I try to conduct myself with respect and good manners on forums. Would you mind telling me which posts on there you do not find friendly? That would help me improve.

I suspect you've seen recent posts relating to the new burrs. I do think it was poor that Denis did not explicitly state prior to release that the burrs rotate in the opposite direction and I certainly voiced frustration about that. Given that the bean turbine is directional that is something that users should have been told. That also comes on top of not being able to get the new burrs to grind fine enough because they are thinner and a week in which 2 of my chute magnets fell out at the same time and I mistakenly mixed them up when glueing them back in. That cost me £100 for a new chute.

I am happy to look at how I am conducting myself to ensure a good outcome, but it would also be good to discuss the issues I have encountered and whether they should happen on a product at this price point. Once issues do occur it is how you deal with them that really matters from a reputation standpoint.


----------



## Dallah

@RobW wow. Using washers as spacers on the burr carrier of a grinder that costs that much and where the manufacturer does make such noise about how tight the machining tolerances are is so poor. Good luck getting it all sorted.


----------



## DavecUK

@RobW Rob how far down does the collar go with no burr fitted?


----------



## RobW

DavecUK said:


> @RobW Rob how far down does the collar go with no burr fitted?


 That is a really good question. When I get the chance I'll remove the upper burr and find out. If it is getting stopped by the burr carrier fouling on the grinder body the collar should go to the same point as with the burr. I presume that is your thinking in trying this experiment? Here is a picture of the mechanism in place so the workings are clear.


----------



## Shorticus

Nice to see a copy of The Silver Spoon on the shelf there. Every home should have one.


----------



## DavecUK

Exactly my thoughts.

Washers under the burr sounds, not a great solution, in a micron aligned grinder. I presume the burr sits on a flat base, rather than 3 hard points. Steel expands differently to aluminium alloy, and I don't know how micron accurate washers are?

It's a shame he doesn't make a shim ring.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Microlot said:


> In my opinion you do,the sound of your writing in Kafatek Forum is not friendly or problem solve related at all,I understand Denis' attidue in relation to the way you write at all.


 If I had paid thousand of pounds for a grinder , hand made , branded as the best there is , with tolerances like no other . I'd be peed off if I was effectively being told to shim it myself.


----------



## ajohn

The washers may be shims ; ) might say the difference is a matter if thickness and accuracy.

When did they change to design from the clamp screw arrangement they did use? This one


----------



## Mrboots2u

DavecUK said:


> Exactly my thoughts.
> 
> Washers under the burr sounds, not a great solution, in a micron aligned grinder. I presume the burr sits on a flat base, rather than 3 hard points. Steel expands differently to aluminium alloy, and I don't know how micron accurate washers are?
> 
> It's a shame he doesn't make a shim ring.


 Hard to justify for a £3k gridner tho


----------



## DavecUK

Mrboots2u said:


> Hard to justify for a £3k gridner tho


 Depth dimensions are not very standard even for burrs from the same manufacturer. e.g. the TiN set I got for the solo was almost 188 micron thicker (approx 0.2mm), these were tin coated versions from the same burr manufacturer.

*Washers can vary in thickness typically by well over 200 micron, or 0.2 mm*

Thus, I think the manufacture of a quality 250 micron shim ring for the top burr is a reasonable accessory to provide with the grinder....3 washers, are not.

P.S. It does seem after a certain point of cost, some people do try and justify anything and see the slightest negative comment out of all proportion. I think it would do Kafatek good to think hard about the use of 3 washers....even if they are ground down to a uniform flatness...which would be very hard to do.


----------



## ajohn

DavecUK said:


> Washers can vary in thickness typically by well over 200 micron, or 0.2 mm


 If you googled shim washers you would see that this is not necessarily so. Depends on what they are cut from. T3 tolerance wouldn't be unusual.

More interesting really is why they are there and probably an obscure and IMHO silly reason for using 3 positioned as shown.


----------



## DavecUK

@ajohn It's not right John is it.....3 washers...no matter how you want to cut it...it's not right.

For sure though I agree he probably would have used shim washers, well one would hope so.

https://www.accu.co.uk/en/shim-washers/62869-HSHN-5-10-0-2-A2

tolerance of +/- 40 Micron...around the nominal size, which could mean an 80 micron difference between washers.


----------



## ajohn

DavecUK said:


> @ajohn It's not right John is it.....3 washers...no matter how you want to cut it...it's not right.


  There would be a lot of waste if full rings were cut and T3 material isn't cheap.

Grinders have a lot of associated flannel anyway. A being better than B even on type of burr. Best comment I have seen on that was a comparison of flat and conical brewed exactly 1 to 2 in 30 sec later mentioning well I could have brewed differently to change the taste on either of them.  At least that was honest.


----------



## ajohn

Cost of them - this google search is highly likely to relate to that

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=uk+cnc+machining+services

Machine time costs vary according to the machine used. Accuracy as is always the case will depend on design to some extent.

🤣 So Dave could sell some of his watches and have his own design made. Batches bring down cost to some extent.

Shims - I have a pack that goes in 0.001 steps, 25um. Tolerance better than that. Fortunately bought a long time ago. Might not even be able to find them now. I've also a roll of 0.0005" shim. A cheaper option these day is a set of feeler gauges. As shims are cut from each of them thickness variation will be very small.


----------



## RobW

@DavecUK your experiment was a success. Without the upper burr in place the collar reaches the exact point where it did with the SSW burrs. So the issue is the burrs being a thinner pair and the carrier hitting the chassis.

Won't say further than that. Hoping to sort this out with Denis.


----------



## coffeechap

RobW said:


> @DavecUK your experiment was a success. Without the upper burr in place the collar reaches the exact point where it did with the SSW burrs. So the issue is the burrs being a thinner pair and the carrier hitting the chassis.
> 
> Won't say further than that. Hoping to sort this out with Denis.


 Clearly is was going to be the case that the collar would do exactly what it did before, especially as you had the older burrs working fine.

I hope that you get this sorted with Denis, only ever found him to be helpful in my interactions with him.


----------



## urbanbumpkin

Mrboots2u said:


> If I had paid thousand of pounds for a grinder , hand made , branded as the best there is , with tolerances like no other . I'd be peed off if I was effectively being told to shim it myself.


Fair point


----------



## ajohn

Must admit I thought the new burrs came with suitable shims to suite. Only point I was making is that they can be obtained as accurate as some one wants.

Leaves me wondering what the man is at. He is the one that knows sizes and capabilities especially after reading this

75mm ALPHA coated Shuriken-LM burrs 100% made and designed by us in our workshop in Seattle.


----------



## shaunlawler

Does anyone know that price difference between the Monolith Flat and Monolith Flat Max shipped to the UK, including all import costs etc (just for the standard base model of each with no upgrades).

I am trying to work out the price difference before I confirm my pre-order but it is not very clear...


----------



## DavecUK

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/37196-monolith-owners-division/?do=embed&comment=830146&embedComment=830146&embedDo=findComment

This might help?


----------



## RobW

shaunlawler said:


> Does anyone know that price difference between the Monolith Flat and Monolith Flat Max shipped to the UK, including all import costs etc (just for the standard base model of each with no upgrades).
> 
> I am trying to work out the price difference before I confirm my pre-order but it is not very clear...


 I'm just about to work out how much I actually paid for my Max as I am thinking of selling it. I can post that price here if that helps? Not sure if the post @DavecUK mentioned is for a Flat or a Max.


----------



## shaunlawler

RobW said:


> I'm just about to work out how much I actually paid for my Max as I am thinking of selling it. I can post that price here if that helps? Not sure if the post @DavecUK mentioned is for a Flat or a Max.


 That would be really useful - thanks!


----------



## RobW

shaunlawler said:


> That would be really useful - thanks!


 No problem. So all in with duties and shipping it cost me £3,254.32.

I'm going to put it in the classified section in the next day or so if you are interested. I've been excommunicated from the cult of Kafatek by Denis for posting some critical comments on here. He has refused to provide any additional support so I'd rather move the grinder onto someone else.


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## shaunlawler

RobW said:


> No problem. So all in with duties and shipping it cost me £3,254.32.
> 
> I'm going to put it in the classified section in the next day or so if you are interested. I've been excommunicated from the cult of Kafatek by Denis for posting some critical comments on here. He has refused to provide any additional support so I'd rather move the grinder onto someone else.


 Thanks for this - I think it may be cheaper now with the exchange rate being better recently.

I'll keep an eye out for your advert.


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## shaunlawler

@RobW out of interest, how much was your grinder without import/shipping?

With the current exchange rate, the new $3,250 cost (without import/shipping) equates to £2,340 but it may have been a bit more when you bought your grinder last year...


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## RobW

shaunlawler said:


> @RobW out of interest, how much was your grinder without import/shipping?
> 
> With the current exchange rate, the new $3,250 cost (without import/shipping) equates to £2,340 but it may have been a bit more when you bought your grinder last year...


 The Max was $3,250 when I ordered, so no change there. I paid £436.26 in duty. Shipping was $150, which is extra on the list price and you pay duty on that as well. I don't think the exchange rate has changed that much since last July, so you'll not see that much difference.

Of course you first need to win the lottery during the pre-order frenzy. I expect the Hoffman video will have caused an explosion in demand.


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## RobW

When I put my Max in the classifieds I expected it to be snapped up. Nobody serious near the asking price yet. What's with that?

Is the frenzy only on the other side of the pond. Is everyone now only interested in Shuriken burrs? Am I expecting an unreasonably high price?

I'm not keen to sell at a big loss. Wondering about swapping out the burrs for SSP high uniformity to see how they perform, or trying the SSP cast burrs to make the ultimate brew grinder. Crazy idea?


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## shaunlawler

Honestly I think it's a mix of it not having the latest Shuriken burrs and is priced quite strongly for a preowned unit (and not much difference in price to buying new).

These, like most of the high end grinders now, are not readily accessible but can be had after a short wait of a few months.

If you came down on price slightly, it would sell. I might even buy it myself!


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## Carlo

Folks, who was selling the leather mats for the MC3? I would need one of the thick ones, but I can't remember who was selling those? Cheers


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## Marocchino

Carlo said:


> Folks, who was selling the leather mats for the MC3? I would need one of the thick ones, but I can't remember who was selling those? Cheers


 Think you'll find them here&#8230;..

https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/MildredsCoffeeTowels?ref=profile_header


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## Carlo

thanks!


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