# Best way to appreciate coffee (other than neat espresso)



## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Some of the differences in taste between various beans have been a lot more subtle than expected. A fresh roasted dark bean just tastes very much like the last fresh dark roasted bean to me most of the time. I'm wondering what this is down to; I realise it could be my technique, but I also suspect its down to the actual drink I prepare. I rarely drink pure espresso, other than to test the extraction, its just too strong for me. I usually make Americano with milk or sometimes a Latte (always with a double shot). Am I expecting too much or are the flavours lost in the drink? What do people think is the best drink to showcase a coffee? Or am I expecting too much? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

I guess what I'm asking is - which espresso based drink does the coffee most justice?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Been thinking about getting a Chemex to explore different elements of bean aromas and flavours. I don't like like light roasts in espresso - don't find the citrus notes do it for me - but in other brew methods, it's a different story. Espresso compresses flavours in an intense burst which is great but it's also nice to see how a variety and lighter roast open up a bean's characteristics.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

autopilot said:


> Some of the differences in taste between various beans have been a lot more subtle than expected. A fresh roasted dark bean just tastes very much like the last fresh dark roasted bean to me most of the time. I'm wondering what this is down to; I realise it could be my technique, but I also suspect its down to the actual drink I prepare. I rarely drink pure espresso, other than to test the extraction, its just too strong for me. I usually make Americano with milk or sometimes a Latte (always with a double shot). Am I expecting too much or are the flavours lost in the drink? What do people think is the best drink to showcase a coffee? Or am I expecting too much? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?


You could try a few ounces of water (a small, strong Americano) to 'open up' the flavours a bit. I gather that's a popular thing to do with whiskey.

To be honest dark roasts aren't my thing so I tend to find little variation too. Maybe try a medium dark or a medium to see if that makes a difference?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

side by side cuppings are a good way to learn coffee tasting.

To some extent I find the darker the roast the more generic the base flavours become


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> ...To some extent I find the darker the roast the more generic the base flavours become


I think this is probably it. I'm enjoying them, but crave variation. I'm thinking of ordering the espresso starter pack from a Has Bean to experience the lighter roast side.

I will probably end up medium, but I find it really frustrating sometimes that the roasters are clearer on how long they roast for.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

autopilot said:


> I think this is probably it. I'm enjoying them, but crave variation. I'm thinking of ordering the espresso starter pack from a Has Bean to experience the lighter roast side.
> 
> I will probably end up medium, but I find it really frustrating sometimes that the roasters are clearer on how long they roast for.


Some Has Bean roasts are not particularly light.

For espresso try :

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/4-6/products/brazil-fazenda-passeio-pulped-natural-rubi

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/4-6/products/sumatra-raja-batak-natural-process

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/4-6/products/ethiopia-yirgacheffe-wote-natural

These 3 will give you VERY different taste profiles. If you cant tell the difference get a new tongue ; )


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

+1 for side by side cupping to explore flavour differences. It's difficult to mess up, has minimal gear requirements, and uses a small amount of coffee. I find it useful to cup a new bag of coffee to "see what it's capable of", before I go and mess up brewing it.

While milky coffees can be nice, I don't think they're a good way of tasting purely "what the coffee has to offer". That's not meant to sound elitist or pretentious; it makes sense when you think about it - milk has a strong taste on it's own. I wouldn't expect to get all the nuances of a good whiskey if I had it with coke.

As for americanos, I'm of the opinion that if you want a long black coffee, why not have filter? I find espresso quality doesn't last long in a cup which is fine as it's a thimbleful of liquid, but when diluted and taken time to consume it seems to develop a slightly murky, dirty quality - a bit like the last cup of a french press. There's an article by Paul Stack of Marco here - http://marco.ie/other_pdfs/CE30_Filter_v_Americano.pdf about filter vs americano which is interesting. Usual disclaimer that this is one man's opinion - one that sells filter coffee equipment at that - so shouldn't necessarily be taken as gospel, but he clearly knows his coffee.

Standard caveat of it boiling down to your taste and what you like to drink that matters, but since you're finding homogeny in dark roast espresso it's got to be worth giving something else a try.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

I haven't tried any of the newer methods like Aeropress and Chemex, but really like the clean, long coffees from my old Cona and Santos vacuum brewers.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Earlepap, point taken about Americano. But surely diluting with water is going to have less of an impact on flavour characteristics than, say, lots of milk from a latte or cap. No? I can really taste the difference from filter, especially with doubles. Filter always tastes muddy and bland to me. Often 'burnt' too if its sat around on a hot plate. Only good filter I have had was from (deep breath) Star Bucks.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

autopilot said:


> Earlepap, point taken about Americano. But surely diluting with water is going to have less of an impact on flavour characteristics than, say, lots of milk from a latte or cap. No? I can really taste the difference from filter, especially with doubles. *Filter always tastes muddy and bland to me. Often 'burnt' too if its sat around on a hot plate. Only good filter I have had was from *(deep breath) Star Bucks.


Wow, you've a whole world to explore then as properly made brewed/filter coffee is way more delicious than an americano!

Certainly so delicious you'd never leave any around to sit on a hot plate!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

autopilot said:


> Earlepap, point taken about Americano. But surely diluting with water is going to have less of an impact on flavour characteristics than, say, lots of milk from a latte or cap. No? I can really taste the difference from filter, especially with doubles. Filter always tastes muddy and bland to me. Often 'burnt' too if its sat around on a hot plate. Only good filter I have had was from (deep breath) Star Bucks.


I, and I'm sure others here, am perfectly happy to drink stone cold filter coffee. Not because were too lazy to reheat, but just because it can be just as delicious as the hot stuff and it can be easier to find certain flavours. It's also a good litmus test, if you didn't do a good job of extracting the coffee, you'll taste it cold & possibly get hints on how to improve next time.

Americano is an extraction process, that thanks to originating as espresso, will often have more suspended solids and a more syrupy mouthfeel than a filter brewed coffee (which in turn be lighter mouthfeel, brighter with more clarity). However, these things can dovetail somewhat (with paperless filters etc).

An Aeropress will allow you to brew right at Americano strength, with a similar mouthfeel, or steep longer (inverted) for brighter, less concentrated brews with clarity. You can even go a halfway house & let it drip for while like a pourover, then plunge before things get bitter & over extracted. A great tool for getting to grips with brewed coffee.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

autopilot said:


> Filter always tastes muddy and bland to me. Often 'burnt' too if its sat around on a hot plate. Only good filter I have had was from (deep breath) Star Bucks.


Yeh, a lot depends on the equipment with filter machine brewed, since most filter brewers don't use hot enough water, giving that flat flavour. Starbies use Bunn machines, IIRC which do brew at the right temperature range (though sometimes the staff don't warm everything up first which means it's a bit lukewarm as served







). Also paper filters absorb some oils which a metal mesh filter doesn't which has an effect...


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## Driftwood (Apr 9, 2013)

I love the coffee from my Chemex, whilst it lasts-the glass is pitifully thin- may look into getting a 'vintage' model, as I 'assume' the glass is thicker. Also, if you haven't tried it, an aeropress makes lovely coffee and the portability aspect is great.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

Yeah, might get myself a chemex one day, they do sound good. Might get an aeropress too for camping, although I tend to use a Moka pot.

Threads drifted a little, was really meant as 'which espresso based drink does the coffee most justice' - should have titled it that.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Thread has persuaded me I need to give Chemex a go. Only problem is deciding the size.


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## gmason (Aug 9, 2012)

With the Chemex, the distinctive smooth taste has a lot to do with the filter paper. Happily used a Chemex and a Hario until some six months ago, but have now found the Technivorm which just about ticks all the boxes. Miss the 'ritual' with the Chemex, but it can be a bit of a faff on weekdays.


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## Driftwood (Apr 9, 2013)

Autopilot- Aeropress is great for camping and a large 'syringe-type' device always impresses the neighbours.

Sys Kid- I had a glass-handled Chemex, and, whilst I loved the design, the glass appeared extremely thin and it almost seemed like it was too tall for the width- needed handling with care and careful storage, when empty. When it inevitably broke, I went with the 6-8 cup wooden-collared version, which is more squat and appears more durable. I don't faff about taking the collar off to give it a good rinse. P.S. this version holds about 20 fl. oz, up to the 'button', which is about two mugs.

gmason- I love the ritual as well and don't find it too time consuming.


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## coffeefan1 (Jun 24, 2017)

i got a free sample of chemex by sending them an email and asking if i could give it a try, might be worth giving a go? i seen it on the gratisfaction site which seems to have quite a few free coffee samples from time to time.


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