# VST 18g basket + Rancilio: advice?



## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Hey,

I am wondering if anyone has a VST 18g basket (mine is ridgeless) and Silvia combination?

I just got mine and struggling a bit. Flow in VST is faster than in the stock pf which means I should either grind finer or updose. What I see if I go for the nominal dosage (18g) then I have to grind really fine (3 on my Rocky) + it is a bit awkward to level it off (cannot really sweep with a finger). Also, the coffee ends up certainly not bad but a bit blander than I was getting with the stock pf. Another option is to updose. That's what I am doing and like the results tastewise (I dose 19.5g and grind one step coarser). However it feels odd. The ground certainly hits the shower screen (not to mention the screw!), so I even have to apply some force to turn the handle to unseal it.

I am a newby so maybe doing something totally wrong. I'd appreciate any advice.

In case it is informative: I am using, what I believe are, medium / medium dark beans from my local roaster (Artisan Roast, Cobblestone 2.5)


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Oh, one thing to mention: when updosing I have some issues with consistency. 1 shot out of 3 turns out not good / with different timing. I am blaming grounds hitting the shower for it, but it may be just my tamping (however, I was getting more consistent shots with stock basket recently). Is VST more demanding regarding tamping consistency? I saw some mixed opinions on the web.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

VST baskets are very good BUT they do not take prisoners. They produce very good results but are unforgiving with poor preparation , grinding and tamping. Dosage is usually + - 1 gm ( 17 - 19) it should not touch the screen, try the coin on the compressed puck (with PF inserted it should not leave an imprint).

Are the beans fresh ? age / dryness drastically affects the pour. Try 18 gm dose and tamp more fimly.


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Thanks for the reply and suggestion!

Thanks for suggesting tamping harder. I tried not to fine-tune my tamp but rather learn to use always the same force (as many seem to suggest). But I will give it a go.

My problem is that I indeed can get consistent 18 g shots (setting 3 on my Rocky, 29-30 sec flow for 36 g) but the taste is a bit ashy / hollow to me. When I use setting 4 with 19.5 g, I like the results more but only 3 out of 4 times. Maybe tamping harder will let me use settings 4 with 18g. I'll report back.

I am also getting a bottomless pf to investigate my tamp technique further (anyone willing to sell one for Silvia?). Maybe I am just very bad at it.

Re coin: I do not think you need a coin with Silvia, as they kindly integrated it in the construction







-- Silvia's shower screen has a protruding screw, which serves as a good indicator. So yes I do know that I touch the screen with 19.5.

Re beans: The beans are fresh (less than a week old). I am lucky to have a pretty good roaster around the corner (Artisan Roast).


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I used miss Silvia and 15 and 18g VST baskets before I sold her and to me it was an advantage to be able to grind finer and extract more; and I had the meCoffee PID installed

I like a thick ristretto


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Stanic, so you usually dosed also about 18 g in the 18 g basket to get the best results?

I also like ristretto. I think 'fancier' coffeeshops here also serve something which is closer to ristretto than to standard italian espresso (40-45 ml yield for 18-20 g dose). I am basically aiming for this range, as, I thought, the roasters tend to optimize for this setting.

Maybe I will try some other beans while waiting for the bottomless pf. My problem could be bean specific.


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## Big Pete (Mar 13, 2018)

Hi IVT

i also used the 18grm basket with my Miss Silvia, 18.5 gram on a dark roast was perfect for me, that extracted roughly 2ounce in about 25 seconds, I would say bear with it as these baskets are very good

cheers

Big Pete


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

yep, I single dosed the mignon then as well as the Feldgrind and Kinu M68 later, with 18g of beans for the 18g basket

do you use scales? don't worry about output volume, weight is a consistent measure, you can get cheap and good scales for the driptray - I've been using these (JoeFrex BW500) for the last 3 years without issues (also good for weighting single doses for grinding)

try to set your grinder to get 36g out of 18g input in 36 seconds (from starting the pump) with the VST and adjust by taste from there - that ratio yields espresso normale (1:2), and after you get there, try to stop it at say 30 grams and taste it


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

ivt, you would probably improve your coffee if you rest the beans for 6 -10 days, they can be a bit lively as you are using them.

Also try restretto 18 gms -- 28 gms in 25 - 30 secs Then try longer see which you prefer.


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Thanks, Big Pete! Maybe I should indeed try between 18.5 and 19. I'll keep trying indeed. The espresso is pretty drinkable anyway and playing with it is fun


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Thank you very much everyone, I really appreciate your help! I'll try your suggestions for adjusting my dose / grind.

@Stanic: Yes, I use scale both for dose (weighing the pf) and yield. My scales seem accurate enough (within 0.1 g) but slightly slow so weighing yield is not very precise (but I think good enough). I am also doing temperature surfing to make the process more controlable (which is a bit annoying, to tell the truth).

@El carajillo: Interesting, I did not realize that beans can be too fresh.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

good to hear, have you considered adding a PID? it helps a lot

yep, too fresh beans taste usually awful


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Re pid: Yes, I think I will be getting one. Probably Auber. I just wanted to first make sure that I like Silvia (bought it second-hand, manufactured in 2014). I think I do like it except for the temp surfing bit and the stupid screw in the shower screen. Both seem fixable luckily. Though it is too early to tell, need first to improve my skills.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I've posted this before but you might find it useful too


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## ivt (May 13, 2018)

Again, thanks everyone for your advice! I wanted to report back: starting yesterday I am getting pretty solid shorts with the VST basket (~ 4-5 in a row). There are 3 things which I changed (at least the first two I think mattered a lot!):

1) I switched to another bag of beans. It made hell of a difference. It tastes a lot better (actually really good! I am pretty proud of myself







) I do not need anymore to updose it like crazy. It may be that was not exactly right with that batch, or I did not dial in the grinder properly (see below). Thanks @El carajillo for the tip.

2) I made a mistake which shows how naive I am: I was not stirring my espresso before tasting it when dialing the grinder in. I was lazy and did not think that it would make a big difference. However, as I was tasking it right after extraction, I was tasting mostly crema. Now, upon advice frok a friendly barista from my local Artisan roast, I stir and dialing in is so much easier. I could imagine that some pretty good espresso when into the sink in the past because of this mistake.

3) When temperature surfing, I now time seconds (30 sec) between the time heater switches off and starting to brew coffee. Previously, I was estimating it in a somewhat arbitrary way. I have not set-up a proper experiment to test if it matters, but I convinced myself that it does.

All in all, I am happy with my results and thanks for convincing me to try harder.


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