# Horrible, undrinkable coffee from new Gaggia Classic.



## AndyP

Hi everyone,

Firstly, apologies for asking questions that you've probably answered several times already to many newbies, but I'm panicking and need your expertise.

I've just bought a Gaggia Classic and believe it might be faulty. I bought it knowing that I'd need to get non-pressurised baskets, a tamper, a grinder, fresh beans etc to make 'good' espresso (I've started ordering stuff). But in the meantime, I wanted to use it with pre-ground coffee to make a so-so cup of espresso. I've had it two days and tried Lavazza black and Illy red and followed the guides and manual instructions, but the espresso that comes out is undrinkable - literally tastes acrid, sour, sharp, like burnt rubber and after a sip I dunk it down the sink.

I know the best results need a grinder etc, but shouldn't it make a drinkable, okay espresso with pre-ground? It's sold with the understanding that it will, so I'm wondering if there could be a problem with the thermostat overheating and burning the coffee - what do you think? I want to figure it out soon, so that I can return it to the shop for a replacement or refund (if I can't make a decent cup then I will revert back to my Bialetti and cafetiere).

Thanks for your time, Andy.


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## fatboyslim

Bet my favourite hat the Classic is absolutely fine.

Crap pre-ground coffee and pressurised baskets are to blame.

Any coffee company that sells pre-ground espresso coffee should be ashamed.

Get a grinder and non-pressured baskets and try again


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## garydyke1

Difficult to know the water temperature with the Classic, you might need to do some surfing.

I suspect the raw ingredient is to blame here tho......

''acrid, sour, sharp, like burnt rubber and after a sip I dunk it down the sink.'' These comments are taken from the tasting notes for the coffee you have purchased??


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## AndyP

Thanks, fatboyslim.

I'm awaiting a non-pressurised basket and a tamper. Don't want to splash out on a £200 grinder unless I'm sure the machine is fine. Might get a Porlex hand grinder and see - only £30 wasted if it still tastes bad.

Even though the coffee isn't ideal, it still tastes fine to me in a moka and a cafetiere so I would have thought I could get an 'okay' espresso from the Classic with it.


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## MikeHag

If your standards aren't very high you can get a drinkable (not good) espresso with pre-ground, but it is actually harder to do that than it is to get a very good one with fresh beans. Obviously we can't know for sure but my guess is fatboy is right and it's not the machine, I'm afraid.


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## AndyP

Thanks MikeHag and garydyke1 - I know you're all right about the coffee quality.

My standards for a cup made with pre-ground were very low, but I did think I'd be able to drink the results - these coffees are offensively bad!

How do I get the machine to make a 'drinkable (not good) espresso with pre-ground'? I just want to be sure it works at the very basic level.


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## ripley

Hi

difficult to say if it is faulty as I don't drink espresso "straight".

What I do remember is that both the coffee types you are trying extracted too fast regardless of how hard I tamped but I wasn't aware of the poor result as I always made milk drinks.

Try about 16 or 17g in the double basket and see how much of a shot you get out in 25 secs and this will give you an indication.

If you can't get a grinder right away then the only coffee I found that had a more suitable grind for the classic was this one -

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Tierra-Coffee-250-Pack/dp/B0049U1Z3S/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1331814164&sr=8-5

It will still pour fast but it is slower than the black and the over priced Lilly.

cheers


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## MWJB

+1 What Fatboyslim & MikeHag say...My mum hates the "mess" of grinds, drinks decaff, so uses pods in her classic, dad will stick anything brown & granular in it & has never weighed an ingredient in anything but his breadmaker...they can still both produce drinks recogniseable as "espresso", even if not exactly paragons of type.

It should make a much better coffee than the Bialetti.

Do you want to run us through your procedure, the devil might be in the detail?


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## AndyP

Cheers ripley,

Interesting you mention milk drinks, as when making a cappuccino the bad espresso doesn't come through - clearly milk, froth and sugar/syrup mask a sinful cup of espresso. Unfortunately, I like mine straight so I can't drink anything I've produced so far.

I'm not counting extraction time etc, as I'm using the pressurised basket and pre-ground, so it's not going to be anything close to correct. Plus, I'm not as concerned with that stuff as I am with just making something that tastes ok for now. Might be worth trying that Tierra though, but I suspect nothing is going to be anything close to what I want until I get a grinder and fresh beans and use the non-pressurised basket.


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## xiuxiuejar

My advice is, using the Illy, measure out 7g into the single basket. When the machine is hot, flush a glassful of water through the machine. Then pour a 23 second espresso. Now I don't know how pressurised baskets work, if you have to tamp or not but 23 seconds through 7g is about right. See if the taste improves.


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## lookseehear

I disagree with MWJB that "it should make a much better coffee than the Bialetti". I've never thought of a Moka pot as making espresso, but they can make a lovely coffee, and given the choice between crap preground through a moka or a classic I'd probably find the moka less offensive!

Andy - do you have a thermometer that you could use to check approx water temp? Otherwise a couple of things that might give an indication whether it's working properly:

- When you run the pump without the portafilter in does the water hiss and give off a lot of steam or do you just get hot water?

- If you just get hot water do you get a good even flow (maybe 1oz every second or two)

I suspect like the others that the problem is the preground crap coffee, pressurised portafilter etc but one other thing you could do if you're willing to buy a proper basket (a few quid from Happy Donkey I think) is you could buy a bag of preground from a good roaster like coffeebeanshopltd.co.uk and try that. It won't be perfect but it'll give you a better idea.


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## MikeHag

There's a level of expectation that has to be set here though. Often people buy an espresso machine under the assumption that if you can buy it from a high street shop then it must be something any layman can use successfully on day one. If you'd bought something like a Nespresso bean-to-cup then maybe that would be the case, but you've bought a 'proper' espresso machine (albeit a domestic version), and that means it can produce better espresso than a Nespresso, but only once you learn how to... and I'm afraid that's not something you can learn in a day or two. I don't want to sound patronising... you may already know everything I've just said... I'm just trying to give you enough info to decide if it's what you thought it was going to be.


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## AndyP

MWJB - sounds like your parents are having a better time with their Classic than me. At the moment the Bialetti is trumping the classic with the pre-ground.

Procedure: fill tank, turn on, pump 150ml water out of shower head to clean it. Put PF in and leave 10-15 mins to warm up. Pump another 150ml through with PF attached, then remove PF and dry it will towel, warm cup. Fill basket (double) with coffee (tried it with a measured 14g and with it full and tamped - possibly 18g), attach PF and pull a shot, stopping when I reach 60ml regardless of pour time.

xiuxiuejar - thanks for that. I'm going to try it exactly as you describe later and I'll post the results here. Although, if I leave it running for 23 seconds I'll probably end up with at least 100ml. Got to shoot off to work now, so won't be replying for a while.

Thanks for all the advice so far, I really appreciate it.


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## xiuxiuejar

Mike is absolutely right. Most cheaper / starter domestic machines are made to produce acceptable coffee with minimal effort and many people find disappointment when they change up to the Classic or the Silvia. Even worse, nowadays we have these fake Nespresso et al machines that produce some sort of synthetic sick. What people don't realise is that the Classic and Silvia don't offer any help to the user. It is now down to you, your raw materials and your technique to pour a coffee.

My first 'espresso' machine was a small 9 bar machine that always produced acceptable smooth coffee with or without technique. I remember my shock when I got my first better espresso machine and couldn't produce a good shot. I didn't understand why. And there began my love of espresso.

You will make good espresso with the classic but you have to work at it. Once you get a good technique, you will always produce good coffee BUT you will never stop learning.


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## AndyP

lookseehear - I'll check those things you suggest and post results. Filter is on the way - got it off eBay from gaggiamanualservice. I'll order some decent ground coffee.

MikeHag - all of that makes sense. I did know that stuff, but you're right to mention it. Tried Nespresso etc and although tasted okay, it wasn't what I wanted to drink - I want proper espresso and I want to learn how to prepare it with the right equipment. Like you say, it takes time and I'm willing to be patient, but one thing I just need to know for sure is if the machine I've got is a lemon.

Right, definitely got to go to work now. Damn this site is addictive!


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## xiuxiuejar

Someone may want to explain to me what the pressurised baskets on the Classic are like if you're getting so much water through in 23 seconds. Is it that crappy crema device in the bottom or is there something else, some sort of disc or something? It sounds like something is missing and the flow of the water is too quick through the puck.


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## MWJB

@Lookseehear "I've never thought of a Moka pot as making espresso, but they can make a lovely coffee, and given the choice between crap preground through a moka or a classic I'd probably find the moka less offensive!" That's not my experience...I've been tipping my dad's Moka pot "experiments" down the sink for years, his french press & Classic? No issues (given "realistic" expectation)...I only use my own Moka for milky coffees...I guess I'm just not a fan of the Moka pot.


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## chimpsinties

AndyP said:


> I'm not counting extraction time etc, as I'm using the pressurised basket and pre-ground, so it's not going to be anything close to correct. Plus, I'm not as concerned with that stuff as I am with just making something that tastes ok for now.


Unfortunately, if you don't pay anttention to stuff like weight in, extraction time, tamp, weight out etc you're really going to struggle to get consitently good results from the Classic (or any higher end machine for that matter) at least at first until you get your technique down. In the back of your mind you'll probabaly be thinking, what difference can all these little details make but trust me when I say, EVERYTHING makes a difference in its own way and added togehter this makes a crap drink into a gorgeous drink.

Why don't you order some fresh coffee from the interwebs. if you email a company like HasBean or coffeebeanshopltd and explain to them you've got a Classic and want it ground really fine they'll probably do it for you.

Using the tamper that came with it won't help your cause either. It doesn't fit the basket snugly so you can't get anything like a seal with the puck which is really important for an even extraction.

If you like drinking straight black coffee then try making an Americano. Just fill your mug up with hot water first then lob the espresso you make into it. It'll forgive alot of you espresso sins and usually makes pretty much anything drinkable. You'll be surprised how much nicer Americanos are when made with a proper doulbe espresso.


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## MWJB

Extraction time, specifically, might not be particularly meaningful (vs established datums) with regards to using pre ground & a pressurised basket.

Stick to either "full & tamped", or "14g measured" and maybe see what happens at 45ml? And so on, watching the flow for blonding...?

When you dry the PF after putting the 150ml through it, are you removing the basket & making sure that the PF is clear of the previous water, the PF can hold a fair amount of "old" water under the basket, in the PF, that takes a while to purge if left to drip.


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## tribs

I've only made 3 shots with mine. I used fairly fresh beans (Lusty Glaze 14 days old) with a blade grinder, so a really uneven grind.

The pressurised basket comprises of a basket with many holes inside another with a single hole, essentially. Liquid appears to stay in the void between unless you shake it out which could be a problem if you don't. I presume this design has the effect of restricting the flow through the puck making the filter bed (grind size, tamp) less important than it would with an ordinary basket, which I think is why I have achieved reasonable results. I had 2 nice, if slightly sour 60ml shots from around 16g-18g of grounds in around 15 seconds. I had one slightly bitter shot where I experimented with a slightly finer grind and around 90-100ml trying to spot blonding around 25 seconds. The latter was fine with milk and a little sugar.

I now have a Mazzer Super Jolly grinder that appears to work fine, is cosmeticly quite good, but is absolutely filfthy, so will experiment with a normal basket (VST 18g) once I have cleaned and dialled in. I will let you know any difference.


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## origmarm

Hi there Andy,

I had a very similar experience when I first got my Classic before I sorted out the baskets and the grinder/good beans combo. I really thought I'd bought a lemon. Like yourself I didn't want to wait for the delivery and got myself some pre-ground Illy to give it an initial whirl. Uuughh is my best description. Even with the good beans/grinder/etc... it took a good 6 weeks before I felt able to call what I produced a good espresso, though the change from the pre-ground was immediate and obvious. Even now a few years along I had good and bad days, especially when switching to a new coffee.

The only thing I would add to the above is that when I first backflushed my machine with Puly, even after only about 20 shots. The amount of brown sludge that came out of it was not normal. Subsequent to this it's not been even close. I gave it a really good flush through (i.e. ran water through it) when I first got it also so I wonder if the pre-ground Illy somehow "gunked it up" or whether there was some manufacturing residue in it or similar. That made a difference, even with the pre-ground.


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## snegger

you say you know you need decent coffee grinder etc but expect the machine to still produce goodish coffee without those stuff,why do you think we spend a lot of money on those extras? because they matter,a grinder will allow you to change the grind so if your coffee shot comes out too fast or too slow it can be changed,as good espesso pours at around 25 seconds,with your pre ground you can not change that,too fast it will be sour too slow it will be bitter,as well as shop bought coffee in most cases is of poor quality before it went into the packe,t then sat on a shelf for weeks,if not months,the best thing you can do if you dont want to buy all the stuff you need,is buy some good coffee from hasbean.co.uk and give that a try.


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## jimbow

I completely agree with Mike and the other posters regarding expectations. This is one of my "don't get me started.." subjects







and really wish manufacturers would do more to set expectations and prepare customers regarding the level of difficulty to producing something that even approaches drinkable. When you get into better machines like the Classic, with increasingly levels of control over brewing parameters and variables, then it is possible to produce wonderful results but unfortunately, it is just as possible to produce truly dreadful, undrinkable results. Anyway, enough of my ranting...









Do you know what sort of ground coffee you are using? Is it an espresso grind, filter, cafetiere or perhaps 'suitable for all brewers'? Each of these brewing methods works best with a different ground particle size and espresso works best with really fine. This fineness of grind creates resistance in the filter basket which then controls the speed at which the brew water flows through the ground coffee and hence the time it is in contact with the ground coffee. With a pressurised basket, the basket itself creates the resistance so grind particle size becomes less important. In my limited experience I would say that an espresso grind works best with the pressurised basket. One of the other grind types will allow the brew water to gush through the coffee too quickly and so will not dissolve enough of the lovely coffee solids along the way. This is usually indicated by a fast gush from the portafilter spouts - rather than the "rat's tail" that most people aim for - and a sour/overly acidic taste to the espresso.

As a guideline to get you started aim for approximately 1.5-2 fluid ounces poured in 18-30 seconds, timed from the moment you push the brew button. If you notice during the pour that the water exiting the spouts goes clear then stop the pour, even if this happens earlier than 18 seconds into the pour. If you find the water comes out too quickly then try using more ground coffee in the basket and if it comes out too slowly then try using less.


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## AndyP

xiuxiuejar said:


> My advice is, using the Illy, measure out 7g into the single basket. When the machine is hot, flush a glassful of water through the machine. Then pour a 23 second espresso. Now I don't know how pressurised baskets work, if you have to tamp or not but 23 seconds through 7g is about right. See if the taste improves.


No improvement with this method. But that's probably due to the poor quality coffee and the pressurised filter baskets. Thanks for suggestion though!


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## AndyP

lookseehear said:


> Andy - do you have a thermometer that you could use to check approx water temp? Otherwise a couple of things that might give an indication whether it's working properly:
> 
> - When you run the pump without the portafilter in does the water hiss and give off a lot of steam or do you just get hot water?
> 
> - If you just get hot water do you get a good even flow (maybe 1oz every second or two)


Not got a thermometer, but going to source one. Just getting hot water, no steam or hiss, and it seems to flow very well, so maybe the machine's temp is correct. As you say, it's the crap coffee and pressurised filter basket - no point trying anything else until I've got good coffee and a new basket and then I'll post results of that.


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## AndyP

MWJB said:


> When you dry the PF after putting the 150ml through it, are you removing the basket & making sure that the PF is clear of the previous water, the PF can hold a fair amount of "old" water under the basket, in the PF, that takes a while to purge if left to drip.


No, but I will now. Thanks!


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## Glenn

Change 1 thing only at this stage - the tamper

Get a 58mm flat based tamper and you will immediately notice the difference

Have a look at the Motta tampers on the banner advert for Cream Supplies.

Even with the pressurised basket you can pull decent shots if tamped correctly.

Minimal investment too.


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## Milesy

AndyP said:


> Thanks, fatboyslim.
> 
> I'm awaiting a non-pressurised basket and a tamper. Don't want to splash out on a £200 grinder unless I'm sure the machine is fine. Might get a Porlex hand grinder and see - only £30 wasted if it still tastes bad.
> 
> Even though the coffee isn't ideal, it still tastes fine to me in a moka and a cafetiere so I would have thought I could get an 'okay' espresso from the Classic with it.


I was the exact same three months ago. I bought every single type of pre ground espresso I could find. 99% sprayed and splattered everywhere and tasted like sewer water. I tried 6 different types of lavazza. Not a single one worked. I found one brand which poured as it was very fine:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Molinari-Cinquelle-Stelle-Ground-Coffee/dp/B002HYXVCG/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1331856117&sr=1-1

It quickly degraded once the tin was opened though.

I got the MC2 grinder and a bottomless portafilter which came with basket. I am still on a big learning curve but the difference is still night and day just now. Your machine is almost guaranteed fine.


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## Outlaw333

Glen is right, a properly fitting tamper will certainly help, I have had to use pre-ground at times in the past and found that the Illy offerings are the only supermarket coffees that can be made 'drinkable' as espresso, the only hope in hell you have of achiving this is with a pressurized basket, a standard basket will just cause the same problems you have currently but to the power of 10! get yourself a cheap Motta tamper from cream supplies and see if it helps.

You mentioned that if you where to extract for the full duration of 23 seconds you would end up with about 100ml, that is the only explanation you need for why your shots are terrible, there is no way of making shot that isn't horrifically sour in 10-15 seconds! Anyway the point being you really needn't worry about your machine! I'm not mega familiar with the classics but it may also help just a little to give it a bit longer to heat up, my Silvia takes 30-40 mins for everything to reach a temp that im totally happy with.


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## AndyP

Glenn said:


> Change 1 thing only at this stage - the tamper


Motta tamper arrived yesterday and I just tried it out this morning. Filled the basket and levelled off, which produced the best shot yet (not good, but better). It was a tight fit though and the shower screen left a mark in the top of the puck, so I tried with 14g weighed out into it and that shot was drinkable too, but slightly more bitter than the first. Seems like tamping has made a difference even though the woman in the Gaggia shop said there was no need to tamp with the pressurised baskets!


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## jimbow

That's really good. To address the bitterness, try using the same quantity of ground coffee as that last shot but use ever so slightly less pressure when tamping. Right between sour and bitterness there is a sweet spot and that is what you are aiming for.


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## xiuxiuejar

If you don't want to spend a lot of cash, get a porlex or similar. Hand grinders are great, the Porlex grinds really well and makes excellent espresso. IMO, the grind is much more consistant than a lot of the cheap to mid-range electric mills. That will allow you to invest in other necessary things, like tamper and baskets and leave you a couple of months to experiment before buying an electric grinder. It will also mean there is no rush so you can wait for an e-bay bargain or for someone on this forum to sell one.


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## JohnnieWalker

Before I got my Classic I had a cheap Delonghi machine.

At the time I thought I'd made a good purchase and was initially impressed with my "espresso".

It was only when I started learning more about coffee that I realised that I was only really getting fake espresso that required little skill to produce what looked like a decent espresso.

I've now had my classic for months and although not perfect, I get good espresso from it, I almost exclusively use Costa beans, some may scoff at the "low quality old beans" I use, but I now get Costa Beans that are just a few weeks old and in my opinion make a good espresso.

A good espresso requires precision, a bit like baking a good sponge cake, unless all of the "ingredients" are good and correctly measured then you'll never get a good espresso, let alone a great one!

---

I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?yn2wpm

Costa Coffee Beans, Ground Coffee & Syrups available at http://CostaShop.co.uk


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## chimpsinties

JohnnieWalker said:


> I almost exclusively use Costa beans, some may scoff at the "low quality old beans" I use, but I now get Costa Beans that are just a few weeks old and in my opinion make a good espresso.


I'm just wondering? Why do you use Costa beans? If everyone is telling you that you can get far superior coffee from other places ordered online (which will actually e fresh not 3 weeks old) for about the same price why not try it? Unless you're getting them mega cheap or free of course?


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## chimpsinties

Just thought you might like to know, I'm selling my Baratza Virtuoso grinder. It's a fantastic grinder but I want to upgrade. Might be within your price range...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?5710-Baratza-Virtuoso-for-sale&p=34739#post34739


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## JohnnieWalker

Hi Chimpsinties,

I have ordered freshly roasted beans from a couple of places, I thought the lusty glaze beans from Hands On were lovely.

However I've constantly got tins of Costa Beans available and having tried lots of other "high street" and supermarket beans I was pleasantly surprised when I tried a relatively fresh tin of Costa Beans.

The fresher tins, around 3 weeks old have a surprising amount of pressure in them.

At what age would you stop using "freshly roasted" beans?

---

I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?eyuodc

Costa Coffee Beans, Ground Coffee & Syrups available at http://CostaShop.co.uk


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## chimpsinties

I tend to use mine until they're gone (that's starting with beans that are 2 days after roasting) Luckily that takes me between 3 and 4 weeks to get through 4 bags so they're never "too old" for my taste. I have been known to keep some around for longer, especially if I've not been too keen on them, just to use for my sink shots like when I'm seasoning the machine after a back flush for example.

The problem I see with starting on a bag that's already 3 weeks old is that by the time you've finished it (if it's a big bag), you're really pushing the limits of fresh. Most say 14 days is pushing the limit but I'm a bit more generous than that







At the end of the day it's all down to your taste, not mine. If you've tried the alternatives and you're happy then who is anyone else to tell you otherwise?


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## jimbow

3 weeks is usually my limit. Whilst I have used beans that are older than 3 weeks on occasion (when needs must and all that) I would no longer consider them fresh and there is invariably a considerable and very noticeable difference in taste between these older beans and fresh ones.


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## JohnnieWalker

Well I use a tin in a week, as I get approx 14 espresso per tin.

So let's say my tin of Costa beans is 4 weeks old, and then by the time I make my last espresso from the tin the beans would be 5 weeks old.

However as far as I'm aware, Costa package their beans in sealed, nitrogen filled tins, whilst this may not be as good as genuinely freshly roasted beans, I would argue that they would in effect be "fresher" than beans used by many people here if they are just packaged in "normal" bags.

If beans are still producing co2 are the generally regarded as being fresh?

---

I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?xofc2m

Costa Coffee Beans, Ground Coffee & Syrups available at http://CostaShop.co.uk


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## AndyP

I like where this thread is going. I too have a question about fresh beans.



chimpsinties said:


> I tend to use mine until they're gone (that's starting with beans that are 2 days after roasting) Luckily that takes me between 3 and 4 weeks to get through 4 bags so they're never "too old" for my taste.


I think getting a store of beans once a month is what I'd like to do, so that I can cut down on the P+P costs. With your 4 bags how do you store them - both the unopened ones and the one you are using?

Update to my original thread topic: tried 14g Illy pre-ground with unpressurised basket and a good, hard tamp with new Motta tamper and got a 60ml shot in 25 seconds that tasted good (better than Starbucks, Nespresso, Moka pot etc, so not amazing, but nice). Waiting on a hand grinder and fresh beans. Looking at electric grinders and deciding on my budget.

Your grinder looks good, I might be interested. One question though, I saw that people had said the Baratza Virtuoso was the same machine as the Dualit grinder, is that true?

Also saw these two on eBay so keeping an eye on them:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220971147797?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1196

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220978077449?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1196


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## Earlepap

AndyP said:


> I think getting a store of beans once a month is what I'd like to do, so that I can cut down on the P+P costs.


Getting a coffee subscription is another way to cut down on postage costs, while also guaranteeing freshness. Suppose you don't get to choose the coffee though.


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## chimpsinties

I have found that simply keeping the 3 unopened bags in the cupboard is fine. The last bag is always tasty







They come in sealed silver/plastic bags with a valve from coffeebeanshopltd so they keep really well. I used to freeze but found it didn't do the beans any good.

For the the one I'm drinking and have open, coffeebeanshop used to ship their beans in these kind of zip lock baggies. They were the same silver/plastic bags with valves but they had the resealable top. They said they would split in postage sometimes but liked them so they sent me a load when I asked







I just empty one bag into one of them and then I can re-seal it after every use and I keep that in an air tight tupperware box. Does the job for me. I'll try and post a picture so you can see what I mean.

As far as the grinder is concerned. I can't imagine that the Baratza is the same machine as the Dualit. Maybe they look similar but the Baratza Virtuoso is worth £175+ (more than twice the price of Dualit) and they have a very good reputation for their quality.


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## AndyP

Thanks chimpsinties,

That's really helpful! I've heard of freezer/fridge storage and then I've read other places how bad that is for the beans, but I didn't have a clear idea of how to store beans properly. I'll try four bags a month and keep them in the cupboard as you say and the opened one I'll find some kind of airtight container to keep them in - I used to always keep the pre-ground bags in the fridge! Always tasted okay in cafetiere when kept for a week or so though.


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## chimpsinties

Here you go










Because my last lot of coffee came from Brazil and not from coffeebeanshop, it wasn't in the sealed bags so I've taken to keeping it all in the airtight box as you can see.


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## fatboyslim

Those beans look insanely dark and shiny.

Get any flavour other than roast flavours?


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## JohnnieWalker

These look like a good idea:






Costa Coffee Beans, Ground Coffee & Syrups available at http://CostaShop.co.uk


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## chimpsinties

fatboyslim said:


> Those beans look insanely dark and shiny.
> 
> Get any flavour other than roast flavours?


Love the profile pic by the way. took me a moment to realise what it was. Yummy!

Those beans in that pic are the light ones of the two types I bought. Check this out










The ones on the left are the ones from the previous pic the ones on the right are the "Forte" or strong ones. They really are strong. From the lighter ones I get lots of chocolate and caramel. They're really nice. I'm getting some of the best shots I've had in ages from them.


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## xiuxiuejar

I have those plastic boxes with a pump to extract the air. They are ugly but the coffee stays super fresh. The ones from JonnieWalker's video look nice but are probably less good at extracting air. I do love how they look though!


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## snegger

TBH I thought Johniewalker was mad for using Costa beans but after trying my Gaggia out today I can see the variables with making espresso are hard to pin down,changing beans once a week/month would mean a new set of variables to get to grips with,at least with Costa beans he knows what he is getting,which is one less thing to worry about,maybe a lack of freshness is made up for in knowing how best the beans should be pulled,I also guess Costa chose beans that keep well and taste good even if not at their freshest,think I will give them a try!


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## chimpsinties

Once you get to grips with your machine and technique though you can easily dial in a new bean quickly. Sometimes it only takes 1 shot, sometimes you get it towards the end of a bag. That's half the fun


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## Milesy

Keep well and taste good is a subjective opinion.

The fresher the beans I have found the easier it is to keep control between different types. I am adjusting between three different types just now.


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## snegger

Ok Johnie you are mad lol

guess what I'm saying is,if you enjoy what you're drinking thats enough for some! I would like to get to the point of having a fall back bean,if thats Costa or another I don't mind,agree tho I enjoyed messing around today but could have done with a good coffee at the end of it lol


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## JohnnieWalker

Here are some Costa Coffee Beans, with a production date of 6th Feb.

Again, I was surprised how much pressure was being held in by the plastic lid, and then by the "foil" seal.










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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?gfehus

Costa Coffee Beans, Ground Coffee & Syrups available at http://CostaShop.co.uk


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## Milesy

I don't think production date is the same as roast date. I don't think they could put beans in a tin if they are still very gassy so how long do they lie before they are tinned.


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## fatboyslim

If these Costa beans are done by Lincoln & York, who do some if not all of Costa's Roasting, then the production date is indeed the roast date. The pack will have a small valve somewhere.

Even the huge Illy tubs that fit straight onto your grinder have a small valve to allow packing straight after roasting.

I think its normal to leave beans fresh out of the roaster for about 30 minutes before packing.


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