# DE1+ v1.3 value / possible sale



## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

I have a DE1+ v1.3 (GHC) from about 10 months ago, used with Ashbeck water exclusively, single home user, 2 shots a day, more when I'm playing at the weekend.

I'm toying with selling it - especially since they are currently impossible to buy.

I have spent great deal of time fiddling / learning / adjusting profiles, and have brewed some great shots but also spent a lot of time and heartache brewing a lot of not so good shots. The endless UI adjusting is getting tiring and not fun rather than exciting. Im making better espresso than with my former duetto but this is maybe mostly due to using coffee that I like more and weighing in / out. Im getting great shots on my Robot too, although sometimes lacking in depth compared to best DE1+ shots.

I also miss the romance of having a big shiny machine if Im honest. Plus DE1 seems too complicated for my wife and son so they use a Nespresso machine, which seems a shame.

I'm not certain I want to sell, and need to check I will be able to plumb in ok. I have London water so would need in line softening - does anyone know what sort of pressure-flow drop there is across a typical in line softener cartridge??

Its pretty clear to to me that I like darker roasts (coffee compass mostly) extracted via lever-style profiles - so Im thinking about a Londinium Compressa - also drawn to the simplicity of repair and lack of electronics to go wrong.

So anyway - any idea what I could ask for this? (Would prefer collection if that matters)

Thanks for your thoughts and advice


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## danielpugh (Oct 26, 2016)

I have bwt bestmax premium, and no significant drop in pressure, read similar on I think the home barista forum where someone did detailed testing. There is more info on that site. I purchased bestmax on recommdation, but was mostly spur of the moment thing (I only need to change one cartridge per year which is simple). Plumbing in is great (would never go back to not having), but also In retrospect I would would recommend researching a bit more. I had mine set too high for a year. I bought a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter as was cheap - this is a waste of time! If you use a softener it changes the hardness of the water but not the amount of solids in the water (atoms of one type are exchanged for another that doesn't form limescale).

I found that normally there is a postcode search that allows you to find the most recent waterboard test for your supply (mine is south west water and stithians), and this included calcium content in mg/l. I then had to convert to the German degrees figure which is how you configure the setting on the bestmax adaptor. also worth considering measuring the pH of the water which affects taste. Once you know the hardness and pH you the appropriate in-line filter. For example Brita (I believe) produce two different types, depending on what is needed. I've just been on a similar experience looking for a new machine following on from duetto. I did look at londinium. I would also look at the izzo Alex leva (plumb in only, very similar to compressa but with la San Marco group lever) @BlackCatCoffee provided great advice and can get these. They are very popular in europe, USA and Australia with tons of reviews and info on the home barista and coffesnobs forums. Also worth (re)searching on the Vostok 1 by ACS which is in development/preorder state - there is a thread in the lever section and on the ****************.

I am less help on the de1, but imagine good resale value as they seem popular. First thing to find out is the warranty transferable?


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

thanks - that's really valuable advice

I will investigate both other lever options


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## danielpugh (Oct 26, 2016)

On the scale/London thing - worth particularly noting the scale/TDs thing. In the service boiler there is obviously vapourization and solids being left behind. It won't be limescale, but still there. I had the duetto iv and it had boiler drain pipe underneath. I opened the one for the service/steam boiler, and a big plug of grey sludge came out. And that's in Cornwall (super soft) with bestmax after 2 years. The izzo leva has the same drain pipe fitted although I believe it is factory sealed (i.e. drill to open), which I think is great for simple maintenance. For both that and the londinium it's a single boiler that feeds straight to the group, so unlike duetto (or de1 maybe), no dead-end for sludge to accumulate. Many users of londinium and leva seem to have had no major problems for years - I think generally super reliable as so simple. Key differences is the leva uses a different portafilter (not 58mm), and has a PID so no pstat noise. Also worth a look at the profitec 800 - that has a tank/pump and uses 58mm, smaller boiler. I was ready for the leva (and still tempted), but have opted to wait for Vostok.


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

A DE1 Pro sold on here pretty quickly recently. Thread is here:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/58678-decent-de1pro-v13-for-sale/?do=embed

Appreciate its a pro rather than a + however.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

thanks again

I had a v1 duetto which eventually died due to sludge / electrical failure (although to be fair I used tap water for ears)

I had a look yesterday for Vostok 1 group info but couldn't find much, although I gather its shipping very soon. Ca I ask why you have gone for this over another lever option?

I like the idea of silent / no pump


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

Gav86 said:


> A DE1 Pro sold on here pretty quickly recently. Thread is here:
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/58678-decent-de1pro-v13-for-sale/?do=embed
> 
> Appreciate its a pro rather than a + however.


 thanks


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## EricC (Apr 25, 2011)

@TomRI would be interested should you decide to sell as we are moving house and a smaller machine is required.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

thanks all

given the medium term lack of possibility of buying a DE1+ new, and looking at Uk second hand sales prices and enthusiasm, I was thinking of asking £2250 collection or same plus DHL etc shipping at cost. I have the suitcase and also the original heavy duty cardboard box for shipping. Does this seem reasonable? Vey happy to be told if not


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

@TomR I think most of the resale data for Decent machines is locked away in the Diaspora so having access to that you may have a better idea than us on the outside. You're right about availability and demand. Are Decent/John happy to transfer the warranty and grant access to the Diaspora for resold machines?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

danielpugh said:


> On the scale/London thing - worth particularly noting the scale/TDs thing. In the service boiler there is obviously vapourization and solids being left behind. It won't be limescale, but still there. I had the duetto iv and it had boiler drain pipe underneath. I opened the one for the service/steam boiler, and a big plug of grey sludge came out.


 The service boiler is essentially a distiller. All solids concentrate as steam is produced. With tap water, bottled water, filtered water there will be some hardness from Calcium and Magnesium and some alkalinity as bicarbonates. Over time they will concentrate until deposits form (scale) even at room temperature, this is true even for the Osmio zero using the remineralisation cartridge which I believe puts hardness and alkalinity at around 25mg/l or something. Tap/bottled/filtered will also contain a number of other things that concentrate too like sulphate, chloride, silica, eventually these things can concentrate to the point they exceed solubility and deposits form. Flushing the service boiler on a regular basis is a necessity with pretty much all water. I fill my service boiler with distilled water and use remineralised water with 40mg/l Alkalinity and 30mg/l Hardness to brew; making one or two lattes a day means I need to flush the service boiler every 30 days approx to avoid scale forming. If I didn't fill the boiler with distilled water beforehand it would need flushing much more often, something like every 5 days iirc.


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

TomR said:


> thanks all
> 
> given the medium term lack of possibility of buying a DE1+ new, and looking at Uk second hand sales prices and enthusiasm, I was thinking of asking £2250 collection or same plus DHL etc shipping at cost. I have the suitcase and also the original heavy duty cardboard box for shipping. Does this seem reasonable? Vey happy to be told if not


 I would say that's a very good price. I think mine new ordered at the beginning Jan was about £3200 delivered for the 1.4 version where the main change was upgraded heaters I believe.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Mark70 I think all you can do is, list it at that in the For Sale forum and see what happens TBH.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> @Mark70 I think all you can do is, list it at that in the For Sale forum and see what happens TBH.


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

thanks Dave - now about that Vostok...


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

DavecUK said:


> @Mark70 I think all you can do is, list it at that in the For Sale forum and see what happens TBH.


 I'm not selling mine. It's a fantastic machine. I'm sure it will sell easily


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

TomR said:


> thanks Dave - now about that Vostok...


 lol...there are 10 being built...I think all are pre-ordered (I think for April delivery). I don't know if they are taking orders for a future build yet...you could ask. Sadly I won't be getting one...I am stuck with Frankenstien, it's leaky group head etc..but I still love it....best shots of any machine I've ever owned. Very reminiscent of the times I lusted after the Izzo Pompeii almost 17 years ago and it's beautiful LSM group...the big difference is this ones small, dual boilers, fast to heat and brew temperature selectable.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Th heaters are the same on 1.3 and 1.4.

The differences are 1. The stand changed from the steelie magnet attached one to a permanent one

2. An updated power supply from 35W to 60W. This enables background water filling when using the kit and continuous power to usb charging for the tablet. On 1.3 when the shot is pulled power to these functions is paused. Otherwise they are identical.

the previous one sold was a Pro version which cost more new than the + version. I know as I was the one who bought it 😁


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## danielpugh (Oct 26, 2016)

TomR said:


> thanks again
> 
> I had a v1 duetto which eventually died due to sludge / electrical failure (although to be fair I used tap water for ears)
> 
> ...


 There is a thread in the levers section - I detailed my main reasons there yesterday. Basically in short though - some extra flexibility and control of certain things e.g. 3x PID, manual infusion setting, etc. In the end the main decision was between leva and Vostok. Realistically because I'm in Cornwall, and the price - unlikely to be easy to change my mind later (who wants a 12 hr round trip to pick up a coffee machine from Cornwall)..

Main advantage of leva is simplicity, silent, easier to maintain, cheaper. The leva can also be pimped - specifically - factory fit joystick, (manual/self) adjust drip-tray grille to gain 10-30mm height, wood set that looks nice, and duetto top/cup tray. It also has steam cup warmer jet. Leva was a sensible option, and got so far I basically placed order then had a mental self doubt/FOMO moment. Realistically though I think all the lever options are good and after weeks of searching forums it is very difficult to find people who don't love theirs..


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## TomR (Feb 2, 2020)

danielpugh said:


> There is a thread in the levers section - I detailed my main reasons there yesterday. Basically in short though - some extra flexibility and control of certain things e.g. 3x PID, manual infusion setting, etc. In the end the main decision was between leva and Vostok. Realistically because I'm in Cornwall, and the price - unlikely to be easy to change my mind later (who wants a 12 hr round trip to pick up a coffee machine from Cornwall)..
> 
> Main advantage of leva is simplicity, silent, easier to maintain, cheaper. The leva can also be pimped - specifically - factory fit joystick, (manual/self) adjust drip-tray grille to gain 10-30mm height, wood set that looks nice, and duetto top/cup tray. It also has steam cup warmer jet. Leva was a sensible option, and got so far I basically placed order then had a mental self doubt/FOMO moment. Realistically though I think all the lever options are good and after weeks of searching forums it is very difficult to find people who don't love theirs..


 thanks - I will have a look, and am also reading the coffeetime Vostok thread

the fast heat up of Vostok looks great - probably what I would miss most after a Decent

I am actually looking for fewer variables to control (easily confused and baffled) and less electronics, and ability to fix it myself (I got into difficulty shipping a duetto back and forth for service-repair, got expensive and annoying ) , and will plumb either way, so a leaning towards an Alex Leva

Who were you going to buy Leva from? Black Cat? They seem like good people to do business with from past experience


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

Stevebee said:


> Th heaters are the same on 1.3 and 1.4.
> 
> The differences are 1. The stand changed from the steelie magnet attached one to a permanent one
> 
> ...


 My mistake. Yes it was the power supply. You got a great deal😀


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I think the price on this is pretty good as well. Excellent machines.


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## danielpugh (Oct 26, 2016)

TomR said:


> thanks - I will have a look, and am also reading the coffeetime Vostok thread
> 
> the fast heat up of Vostok looks great - probably what I would miss most after a Decent
> 
> ...


 Yep @BlackCatCoffee was great and very patient with all the options. Joystick Vs knob is a personal thing. Had the knob previously and fancied a change, also harder and much more expensive to fit joystick later as required adaptor, but was cheap as an option factory fitted. Also I added an extra drip tray grille unnecessarily as bending/cutting existing grille to gain height and would have original as spare. If you remember the duetto grille it's the same - an easy bend or cut to add extra height. The default height from portafilter to tray is 7cm without, although that is from the bottom if the spout. The wooden joystick and matching bottomless portafilter was just because the wood did look good on the joystick.

Also check you sizing/space - lever machines are bigger and heavier. Mostly allow 80+cm in height, but check the other dimensions as well.

The double spring may be a factor as harder to pull than single - if other family members to use etc.


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