# Benji's experiments with Sage Barista Express- progress log



## Benjijames28

I recently made a post asking about weighing coffee and ratios etc....

I am starting to get a better understanding but still need to experiment with my machine and get to grips with how to get the most from my beans.

Using a Sage Barista Express with the built in grinder. I also have a setof scales capable of weighing 0.1 of a gram, only issue is when my scales are on y drip tray room is limited and I'm struggling to fit the portafilter, scales and a cup.

So far I've only used the machines preset extraction settings, using the double shot button.

Here is the result of my first experiment:

- Foundry Rwanda beans roasted about a month ago

- 17.9g of ground coffee

- 51.9g of espresso

- 30 seconds total time including ore infusion

- According to pressure gauge the shot started just above the espresso range, before dropping into it, needle near 12 o clock position. The pour itself looked like a rat tale for the most part, but at times seemed to stop or favour one side over the other.

- Taste was nice with my milk, not a strong coffee by any means, my milk lacked microfoam but the taste was good.

Any feedback on the above information would be appreciated. I will keep updating this thread with my results.

I just finished my bag of Foundry's Rwanda beans, starting on a bag of their Colombian beans tomorrow, then i have a 1kg bag of casa espresso beans ready for use next week, will be going through that bag over the next month. Will be easier to monitor my progress when I'm using the bigger bag of beans.

Thanks guys and girls!


----------



## itguy

Great that you're starting to experiment - it's great fun!

Thats a long brew ratio - 17.9g coffee to 51.9g is almost 1:3 yield and you would probably find that 1:2 or 1:2.5 would give you more strength in the cup.

30 seconds is a good shot time.

But! To do this you will need to grind finer as you want to still have a 30 second brew time but get less weight out (ie 18g in, 36g out 1:2 yield).

This will mean that the needle on the espresso gauge on the machine will be right at the very end, but that's ok - just ignore it. I spent nearly 2 years brewing mine by the gauge then read all about weighing things and realised it wasn't really that much help.

1:3 ratio in my experience is "safe" for sage to default to as it makes the coffee weaker and means more people are likely to get a drinkable shot.

Milk steaming - you can get brilliant microfoam from the Barista Express actually. I used to use semi skimmed or whole milk, tilt the jug back away from the steam wand and place the wand to the right hand side of the jug, just below the surface but at an angle to the surface (so directing the steam towards the top of the handle at the back). create a circular whirlpool motion just getting a little bit of noise in with the tip and then when the temperature reaches 40c, move the tip under the surface just to heat the milk only up to 60c. I use a digital kitchen thermometer when I'm doing it. Being patient with the milk frothing is key and don't move the wand all over the place in the milk if you can help it. Just practice but trust me - the machine is VERY capable.

Have fun!


----------



## Benjijames28

I have had great milk from the machine before, today was just a bit of a poor effort on my part.

So tomorrow i will do a few test shots with the new beans, try and dial it in. Your saying i should make it finer and just use the preset program and not use the machines manual option yet?


----------



## itguy

Good point - if I was you I'd start using manual mode. Count all of the time including any pre infusion time etc.

If if you can weigh as you extract then aim for the 36g and time how long it takes. Adjust grind to get to near 30 seconds.

Finer for it to take longer, coarser for shorter etc


----------



## Benjijames28

I will give that a shot tomorrow morning, see how i get on.


----------



## Benjijames28

Interesting results this morning. Had about 4 or 5 attempts at getting a decent extraction from my foundry Colombia beans.

I was using the manual mode on my sage barista express aiming for a total extraction time of 30 seconds and a 1:2 ratio. I let the preinfusion run for 6 or 7 seconds and then let it go up to pressure for the extraction.

Used 18g of coffee each time so wanting 36g out.

- First attempt i was way too coarse and ended up with 93g of coffee!

- Second attempt was too fine and produced 23g of coffee

- Attempts 3 and 4 were somewhere in between

- Final attempt was 18g of coffee producing 34g of coffee

After the final extraction I started to steam milk and ran into a problem, the steamer was lacking power and then stopped producing steam! I thought the sage barista express was suppose to keep producing steam. I had to turn the steam off and put it back on again, waited for it to heat up and then finish my milk, which still ended up flat.

Never had issue with milk before. I need to keep an eye on this.

Any feedback?

Anything I should be adjusting? Am i aiming for too long of an extraction?


----------



## MWJB

If you're aiming for 36g out, how are you ending up with 93g or 23g of coffee? You must be well past 36g on the scales to get 93g in the cup, conversely you must have killed the shot with less than 20g showing on the scales to gt 23g in the cup?

If you're brewing by ratio make sure you hit your target weight in the cup, if this happens in a ridiculously short (50sec) time then be more concerned about time. Otherwise focus on weight & grind setting to steer taste.


----------



## Benjijames28

I don't have much room for my scales and cup under the portafilter. I need to find a smaller cup.

I have been timing 30 seconds on my watch, then kill the shot, then weigh the shot.

So i need to weigh as it comes out and pay less attention to the timing?


----------



## MWJB

Or a wider cup, that fits around the PF spouts?

You're brewing by time & hoping to hit the ratio. Do it the other way around, brew by the ratio (yes, you're looking for the desired weight in the cup at shot end) & note the time.

As you have already seen, going by time alone results in massive variance in the cup. If you always hit your target weight, it will be more consistent for a given grind setting.


----------



## Benjijames28

I will try finding a suitable cup or mug lol.


----------



## Benjijames28

Been out and bought a very nice mug, pretty much the perfect size. Looking forward to tomorrow morning's experiment!

Notes for tomorrow.... Weigh the coffee as it's coming out and stop the shot when it gets where you want it in weight. Adjust grind accordingly to increase extraction time.


----------



## MWJB

Benjijames28 said:


> Adjust grind accordingly to increase extraction time.


Adjust grind to influence the taste (finer until you hit sweetness & reduce sourness), this may impact on time & it probably will...but shot times for a given grind will have s little leeway/normal variation.


----------



## itguy

So how did the espresso taste when you got 34g in 30 seconds?

Ref the steamer - that is odd, mine was always ok unless I had run out of water! Probably just needed to heat up again. It the steam dry that it is creating? Wet steam can make flat foam etc


----------



## Benjijames28

itguy said:


> So how did the espresso taste when you got 34g in 30 seconds?
> 
> Ref the steamer - that is odd, mine was always ok unless I had run out of water! Probably just needed to heat up again. It the steam dry that it is creating? Wet steam can make flat foam etc


I don't know what happened, my water tank was nearly half full. Before using the steamer i had pulled about 4 or 5 shots, and ran water through the machine in between shots to clean the group head (i think this is the right term).

I tested it this afternoon and let the steamer run a good to minutes with no issues, i even steamed some milk and got Decent result.

Looking forward to tomorrow's coffee.


----------



## Beth71

Benjijames28 said:


> I don't know what happened, my water tank was nearly half full. Before using the steamer i had pulled about 4 or 5 shots, and ran water through the machine in between shots to clean the group head (i think this is the right term).
> 
> I tested it this afternoon and let the steamer run a good to minutes with no issues, i even steamed some milk and got Decent result.
> 
> Looking forward to tomorrow's coffee.


Interesting that you should mention about your issues with steam. I recently bought a Sage Duo Temp Pro from John Lewis which I am about to return for exchange as the steam/hot water function was very flaky. Hoping it was just one dodgy machine. We'll see when the replacement arrives...


----------



## itguy

Group head = right term


----------



## YerbaMate170

Hmm, what grind setting are you using? I'm finding it impossible to get a non-sour shot with lighter roasts in my Barista Express... Also how are you tamping?


----------



## Benjijames28

I think i was on setting 6 yesterday.

As for tamping, i try to follow the suggestions from this video...






I am learning a lot from that guys videos.


----------



## Benjijames28

Ok two attempts this morning, first was a disaster, i let coffee to preinfuse and then killed the shot by accident. I think the grind setting was too fine too, set at 4.

Second shot was 17.9g of coffee on setting 6, aiming for total time of around 30 seconds and a 36g yield. Actual results :

17.9g dose

37g yield

25 seconds total time

Coffee was coming out too fast, defiantly not a rat's tail. I only drink coffee with milk so i can be a bit forgiving regards taste, all i will say is it seemed a little weak, probably a bit bitter, but certainly drinkable and certainly better than most coffees i get from the chains at my work.

Again I struggled with the milk, usually get much better milk.

I won't have any more updates for this thread until next Friday as I'm back to work tomorrow, i might fancy a coffee in the evenings, but then i wont sleep lol.

Any feedback is welcome.

PS: Next week i will start on my 1kg bag of casa espresso beans, plenty to play with there for the next 3 weeks, enough beans to experiment and really find what I like.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Ignore Rat's tail as an indicator , your are working to a brew ratio , noting time and adjusting by taste . Looking at how it appears from the spouts and judging it on that , is just noise adding to confusion...

Tighten grind , repeat , note time , taste .


----------



## MWJB

Go finer.


----------



## Benjijames28

Mrboots2u said:


> Ignore Rat's tail as an indicator , your are working to a brew ratio , noting time and adjusting by taste . Looking at how it appears from the spouts and judging it on that , is just noise adding to confusion...
> 
> Tighten grind , repeat , note time , taste .


Advise understood. I knew this thread would be a good idea, I'm getting so much good information, pointing out where I'm wrong or misguided. Pure gold. Will defo keep updating.

I just wish i liked pure espresso so i could judge pure taste a bit better.


----------



## Benjijames28

I've got a question regarding pre Infusion time.

The barista express has a pressure gauge which can tell you when your in the preinfusion stage, my question is how many seconds from pressing start on my machine do i need to leave for preinfusion?

I've been pressing the button in then you hear the thump thump thump of the machine starting then after about 5 seconds i let go of the button which sends my pump up to full pressure.

If i leave preinfusion too long I start to get coffee dripping out, this isn't good i assume.

Is 5 or 6 seconds from when i first press in the button a good time to take the pump to full pressure?


----------



## itguy

I'd basically say it doesn't really matter. Almost better to try hard to have no pre infusion at all as it then eliminates another variable that arguably is a fine tuning measure anyway.

When I moved from my Barista Express to my izzo Alex HX machine with E61 brew head (i.e. One of the stainless looking machines with a lever on the side of the brew head to start the shot) I did away with pre infusion and I'm getting the best coffee I've ever drank.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Benjijames28 said:


> Advise understood. I knew this thread would be a good idea, I'm getting so much good information, pointing out where I'm wrong or misguided. Pure gold. Will defo keep updating.
> 
> I just wish i liked pure espresso so i could judge pure taste a bit better.
> 
> View attachment 26098


Make your espresso into an Americano then and try that.


----------



## Benjijames28

Ok i will try without any preinfusion, see if that makes a difference. Might have a quick bash tonight, i need to go thru my Colombian beans anyway.


----------



## Benjijames28

Just made a latte with no preinfusion, i don't know if it was a fluke but it's my best coffee so far. The espresso looked so sexy coming out into the cup.

Milk was pretty good too.

I forgot to weigh my dose but using the technique i have been using to level the basket before tamp i know i was close to 18g, either way i killed the shot babe like bang on 37g yield, frothed my milk and bam. Currently sat enjoying a nice coffee, way too late in the day.


----------



## itguy

Great stuff !!

now of course the trick is to do that again, and again !!


----------



## MildredM

Well done - it looks great








cheers!


----------



## Benjijames28

Still no idea about taste, i tasted some of the darker bits of crema from side of my mug.... Not nice. I enjoyed the coffee, definite progress this week.

Bring on the casa espresso unione v3 blend beans next week!


----------



## Planter

Please keep the updates coming. I'm looking at getting the same machine so reading with interest.


----------



## Benjijames28

Planter said:


> Please keep the updates coming. I'm looking at getting the same machine so reading with interest.


Just finished work for 4 days so should be updating daily all weekend.


----------



## Planter

Benjijames28 said:


> Just finished work for 4 days so should be updating daily all weekend.


Looking forward to them. Thanks.


----------



## Benjijames28

Busy today, only managed one attempt and settled on the result.

Trying the casa espresso beans, 18g , produced 36g in about 30 seconds, almost exactly what i want but I'm not happy with the coffee.

Bit more of a experiment tomorrow. Don't know what to try next, might repeat today, then maybe make the grind coarser, see of the taste is better.


----------



## Mrboots2u

Benjijames28 said:


> Busy today, only managed one attempt and settled on the result.
> 
> Trying the casa espresso beans, 18g , produced 36g in about 30 seconds, almost exactly what i want but I'm not happy with the coffee.
> 
> Bit more of a experiment tomorrow. Don't know what to try next, might repeat today, then maybe make the grind coarser, see of the taste is better.


Confused if 18>36 is exactly what you want > but it tastes based ? Then that can't be what you want !Numbers mean nowt without taste . What was lacking in the cup ?

Why try the same thing again if it wasn't nice ?


----------



## itguy

Simple rule of thumb - if it tasted too bitter then grind coarser (makes it flow quicker so expect 25 seconds for 36g) and if it was too sour then grind finer, expect 35s for 36g.

To to start with I'd keep to the 1:2 brew ratio (i.e. 36g) before trying to alter that too, but it might just be that the coffee might work best at 1:1.5 for example.

Have you asked the coffee roaster what is best for it?


----------



## MWJB

itguy said:


> Simple rule of thumb - if it tasted too bitter then grind coarser (makes it flow quicker so expect 25 seconds for 36g) and if it was too sour then grind finer, expect 35s for 36g.
> 
> To to start with I'd keep to the 1:2 brew ratio (i.e. 36g) before trying to alter that too, but it might just be that the coffee might work best at 1:1.5 for example.
> 
> Have you asked the coffee roaster what is best for it?


The coffee will "work" at anywhere from 1:3 to 1:15. You're just changing the concentration & intensity. 1:1.5 will make it difficult to hit a nominal extraction, but plenty of folk like strong, under-extracted coffee, so no reason not to give it a go.

The idea is to make a tasty drink, not to compete in a time trial, 1:2 just means the drink will be about 9-10% concentration at a nominal extraction, it is less likely to be unpleasantly bitter or sour here, but there is no reason why this will happen at 30seconds on the dot. It will happen at an appropriate grind setting in the time it takes to get 36g from 18g dose with a balanced taste.


----------



## Benjijames28

I was very rushed today, was also first attempt pulling a shot with these beans.

Hopefully more time tomorrow, i will go coarser.

How important do you guys think preinfusion is? I didn't allow any preinfusion today.

I also noticed the coffee was coming out of one spout consistently and occasionally stopping from the other spout. Here is a image of my shot...


----------



## PHB1969

Benjijames28 said:


> I was very rushed today, was also first attempt pulling a shot with these beans.
> 
> Hopefully more time tomorrow, i will go coarser.
> 
> How important do you guys think preinfusion is? I didn't allow any preinfusion today.
> 
> I also noticed the coffee was coming out of one spout consistently and occasionally stopping from the other spout. Here is a image of my shot...
> 
> View attachment 26178
> 
> 
> View attachment 26179


That espresso in the second picture must be quite thick for you to be able to do that...!!!


----------



## Benjijames28

PHB1969 said:


> That espresso in the second picture must be quite thick for you to be able to do that...!!!


Lol there's always one!


----------



## Benjijames28

Tried again this morning with a coarser shot, the shot looked much better but it taste super acidic.

I also had another issue with my steam wand stopping!

I switched it on to get steam going, then turned it off for a second or two to put the wand into the milk then switched it back on. I got steam for about 20 seconds, low powered steam, could not get a vortex going, then it just stopped. I can't call sage until Monday!

Getting cheesed off with it now.


----------



## itguy

That's not good. Nothing more frustrating than kit not working as it should do.

Well coarser will have meant it will have run through quicker so acidic and sour (was it sour?) would make sense. Defo worth trying the other end of the spectrum now so you can see what bitter is like - different people prefer different tastes.


----------



## Benjijames28

itguy said:


> That's not good. Nothing more frustrating than kit not working as it should do.
> 
> Well coarser will have meant it will have run through quicker so acidic and sour (was it sour?) would make sense. Defo worth trying the other end of the spectrum now so you can see what bitter is like - different people prefer different tastes.


Going to go a few settings finer later today.

Defo calling sage on Monday, if machine is faulty it can go back to John Lewis for a return or exchange.


----------



## MildredM

Benjijames28 said:


> Tried again this morning with a coarser shot, the shot looked much better but it taste super acidic.
> 
> I also had another issue with my steam wand stopping!
> 
> I switched it on to get steam going, then turned it off for a second or two to put the wand into the milk then switched it back on. I got steam for about 20 seconds, low powered steam, could not get a vortex going, then it just stopped. I can't call sage until Monday!
> 
> Getting cheesed off with it now.


It sounds very frustrating. Thankfully JL will soon sort you out and once you are sorted everything will start to fall into place. You sound very patient, keep it up!


----------



## Benjijames28

MildredM said:


> It sounds very frustrating. Thankfully JL will soon sort you out and once you are sorted everything will start to fall into place. You sound very patient, keep it up!


Shame I'm so limited with space and to some degree money. If this machine is faulty i don't know if i will get my money back and give up.

Will update later.


----------



## lake_m

Don't give up @Benjijames28. The journey you are currently taking is a well trodden path, and many others have been there before. Keep asking the questions and get the help and advice offered on here. It took me a solid three months to properly figure out my machine / bean/ grinder combination - and I'm still learning. But once you start making constantly good shots, it's all worth it.


----------



## MildredM

Benjijames28 said:


> Shame I'm so limited with space and to some degree money. If this machine is faulty i don't know if i will get my money back and give up.
> 
> Will update later.


Oh no, please don't give up. You really will get there, in the end. I remember being in tears a few years ago when I couldn't get anything right with my machine. Maybe if you feel that machine isn't quite what you want then get your money back, as it's faulty, and then set off with something different.


----------



## Benjijames28

MildredM said:


> Oh no, please don't give up. You really will get there, in the end. I remember being in tears a few years ago when I couldn't get anything right with my machine. Maybe if you feel that machine isn't quite what you want then get your money back, as it's faulty, and then set off with something different.


I'm sure the machine is capable, it's pretty much my best option with the space i have.

It's my birthday next week and I've got a feeling the gf has booked me on a training course at my favourite coffee shop. They offer a few hours of one on one training for like 30 quid per hour. Bargain.

If the machine is faulty then i will probably get a replacement unless anyone can suggest another machine? The other option i looked at was a mignon grinder with a Silvia or what ever it's called machine, but even that took too much counter space.


----------



## Hibbsy

Don't give up !

If the machine is not working properly then it won't matter what you try. It most likely won't produce what it should.

Get a replacement and try what other forum members use with their machines.

A very knowlegeable and helpful bunch of people on here.


----------



## Benjijames28

Well the steam wand has stopped working twice now mid steam. It could be a faulty machine.


----------



## Benjijames28

I just can't seem to crack this bean.

I've gone finer, which choked the machine coarser which still tasted bad. All using a 1:2 ratio which is apparently suggested for this bean.

Oh and more steamer issues. Where next?


----------



## Mrboots2u

Change the ratio


----------



## lake_m

Benjijames28 said:


> I just can't seem to crack this bean.
> 
> I've gone finer, which choked the machine coarser which still tasted bad. All using a 1:2 ratio which is apparently suggested for this bean.
> 
> Oh and more steamer issues. Where next?


I think a phone call to John Lewis tomorrow is in order. Get a replacement machine and try again. At least your mind will be at ease that you have ruled out the faulty machine scenario.


----------



## Benjijames28

Going to have another go in the morning, any more issues and it's going back to John Lewis.

I will try a different ratio in the morning.

1:2.5 so my 18g yields 45g of coffee


----------



## Tufty_B

Hello Benji,

The majority of the time I'm happy with the results (good flavour with the pressure gauge around 11 o'clock & a 20-35 second extraction) and have been able to work out where its gone wrong when it has been sour or bitter on shorter & longer extractions.

On the steam wand front can you explain how you use it & how many times that you use it in a row, the only issue that I've had was when I'd run the water tank dry without realising so ran out of puff?

Also I've seen from a previous thread that you previously had another Barista Express, how were you getting on with that and what went wrong with it, it would be good to know so I can keep an eye out in case mine starts to play up?

Hopefully soon you will get a consistent espresso out of the machine that you are happy with.


----------



## Benjijames28

Tufty_B said:


> Hello Benji,
> 
> I've been reading this thread on your Sage BE journey because I've just bought a BE on Monday 17th April. As a beginner I decided that I would use the auto mode and my 2 sons & myself have got through about 800g of beans so far.
> 
> The majority of the time we are perfectly happy with our results (good flavour with the pressure gauge around 11 o'clock & a 20-35 second extraction) and have been able to work out where we have gone wrong when it has been sour or bitter on shorter & longer extractions.
> 
> On the steam wand front can you explain how you use it & how many times that you use it in a row, the only issue that I've had was when I'd run the water tank dry without realising so ran out of puff?
> 
> Also I've seen from a previous thread that you previously had another Barista Express, how were you getting on with that and what went wrong with it, it would be good to know so I can keep an eye out in case mine starts to play up?
> 
> Hopefully soon you will get a consistent espresso out of the machine that you are happy with.


Hello,

The first BE machine i had the handle on the water tank snapped, the machine itself worked fine, no issues with steaming, and i would even say the grinder was better in the first machine than the second.

As for the steam wand, i use it like you normally would. I pull my shot, then turn the steam on, let it warm up to the stage it's producing steam at a decent power level, then i turn it off for a second while i put the wand in the milk, then turn it back on. Occasionally the wand has continued to steam for 10 to 20 seconds getting progressively weaker until it just stopped producing steam.

My water tank has never run dry, it's never even gone near the minimum level.

To be honest i think the first machine i had was just bad luck, and this second one is pure faulty. I'm 99 percent sure the machine is designed to keep producing steam until the tank is empty. It's like my pump decides not to suck in more water and heat it up (the thump thump thump sound you hear).

I think the machine is going back today.


----------



## itguy

Sounds like you are just having a bit of bad luck with them. My BE worked flawlessly for 2 years from brand-new and never missed a beat. JL will sort you out I'm sure but don't give up!


----------



## Benjijames28

Sorry for the anti climatic end to this thread but the machine was packed away this morning and returned to John Lewis.

I was considering a replacement, but right now opted for refund. I've got all time in world to consider my options.

I'm at work rest of week now anyway.

Thanks for support guys.


----------



## Tufty_B

Benjijames28 said:


> Hello,
> 
> The first BE machine i had the handle on the water tank snapped, the machine itself worked fine, no issues with steaming, and i would even say the grinder was better in the first machine than the second.
> 
> As for the steam wand, i use it like you normally would. I pull my shot, then turn the steam on, let it warm up to the stage it's producing steam at a decent power level, then i turn it off for a second while i put the wand in the milk, then turn it back on. Occasionally the wand has continued to steam for 10 to 20 seconds getting progressively weaker until it just stopped producing steam.
> 
> My water tank has never run dry, it's never even gone near the minimum level.
> 
> To be honest i think the first machine i had was just bad luck, and this second one is pure faulty. I'm 99 percent sure the machine is designed to keep producing steam until the tank is empty. It's like my pump decides not to suck in more water and heat it up (the thump thump thump sound you hear).
> 
> I think the machine is going back today.


It seems like you've been very unlucky with your machines.

I was wondering, did you condition/flush before first use as per the instructions I found on the Sage website, though I doubt that this would have any adverse effect either way.


----------



## Tufty_B

Benjijames28 said:


> Sorry for the anti climatic end to this thread but the machine was packed away this morning and returned to John Lewis.
> 
> I was considering a replacement, but right now opted for refund. I've got all time in world to consider my options.
> 
> I'm at work rest of week now anyway.
> 
> Thanks for support guys.


When you decided on another machine, I'd be interested in knowing what you go for, so please let us know.

Good luck for the future.


----------



## Benjijames28

Tufty_B said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> It seems like you've been very unlucky with your machines.
> 
> That sounds the same way that I steam, i.e. after pulling a shot (some steam before) and then switching the dial to STEAM and waiting for the STEAM/HOT WATER light to stop flashing which means the steam wand is ready for use, switching the steam off to put the wand in the milk (note to others, this pause function lasts for 8 seconds only).
> 
> As stated in the instructions, the steam function doesn't run until the tank is empty, it stops after 5 minutes of continuous steaming, the machine will automatically disable the steam function. The STEAM/HOT WATER light will flash. When this occurs return the dial to the STANDBY position.
> 
> It is possible that the steam wand is blocked, did you take the tip off and check/clean it or possibly that the safety thermal-cut out may have activated due to the pump overheating in which case you need to power it off and leave to cool for 30-60 mins, though if you could pull a shot afterwards then I doubt that it had overheated.
> 
> I was wondering, did you condition/flush before first use as per the instructions, though I doubt that this would have any adverse effect if not?


Yeah i followed the instructions to the letter. I was using the steam wand the exact same way i was with my first machine. Didn't have any issues with that one.

I was turning on the steam letting it start producing steam usually what... Twenty seconds, then turning it off briefly then back on in my milk, then what was happening was it would start to steam, the steam quickly got weaker then just stopped with my milk still cool, so under 1 minute total time.

Like i said my first machine didn't have any issues, i should have just been patient and let them send me a new water tank on that machine. Lol lessons learnt and all that.

As for a replacement i don't know. I really like the sage products, they look really nice and pack so many features for the money.

On other hand the grinder is sub standard, i might be better just saving my money until i can get a decent grinder and a different machine. Your talking minimum 3x the outlay. 500 quid for a decent grinder, and minimum 1k for a machine.

I'm liking the look of the rocket machines.


----------



## Wisey

itguy said:


> Sounds like you are just having a bit of bad luck with them. My BE worked flawlessly for 2 years from brand-new and never missed a beat. JL will sort you out I'm sure but don't give up!


 What happened after 2 years?!!


----------



## RAODJS

Just been reading this thread - as im struggling with brew time. and im gutted its 4 years old as nobody will read it. There was nothing wrong with your machine - the wand was blocked. Did you not get a little tool to clear it? Assuming not as you didnt mention clearing it - or maybe Sage just offer the unblocking tool now after a model upgrade maybe. Mine stops producing steam from time to time, its because milk has dried inside the spout opening. A quick prod with the pin and its good as new. Shame you didnt know that before abandoning ship and causing yourself hassle. The machine is hard to beat, thats a fact!

Now - why cant i get more than 12 seconds flow with a '12 o'clock' pressure guage!?


----------

