# New Silvia version just released...?



## Naith

Here's the info about it I've just read: http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=RANCILIO_SILVIA_VE_2016

Thoughts?


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## Mrboots2u

Naith said:


> Here's the info about it I've just read: http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=RANCILIO_SILVIA_VE_2016
> 
> Thoughts?


that its no "better " than the v4 and still over priced


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## risky

So they made it eco friendly. And it shuts off after 30 minutes? So basically once the temperature has stabilised it shuts off?



> Some other features of the Silvia include a built in cup warmer


woohoo, unique selling point there,



> hot water dispensing


there isn't a hot water tap? So you're basically just dispensing hot water through the grouphead?



> A newly designed multi directional steam wand makes milk frothing even easier


looks identical,



Mrboots2u said:


> that its no "better " than the v4 and still over priced


Agreed. Mad to buy one new. If anything this new model will just push up the price of the older versions.


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## El carajillo

Yes but that is SALES:exit:


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## ImthatGuy

As far as I can see, the only differences are to reduce energy consumption and meet EU regulations - 30-minute standby and boiler insulation.

It's hard to parse the English of the site description, especially this:

"It also has an innovative grinder..."


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## Jumbo Ratty

I hope they've changed the plastic bit that the chrome always seems to peel off from around the group head.


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## Naith

risky said:


> Agreed. Mad to buy one new. If anything this new model will just push up the price of the older versions.


Thing is, I don't want to take a risk and buy second hand - I like new stuff that only I have used if possible.

So for the same money is there anything better I could buy that's NEW?


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## Prusev71

The similar destiny had Gaggia Classic at the begining of this 2015 year, when Philips change it to be in compliance with EU regulations. Rancilio succeeded to delay the change for one year...

So, guys, mine is v4 (with replaceable heating and I have bought it on 15 July 2015. Rarely used for 2 double espresso in the morning Mo - Fr plus 2 double espresso in the afternoon Sa - Su. Never used for cappuccino. So, during October 2015 I bought Expobar Brewtus IV and I do not need Miss Silvia anymore, nevertheless I still love it and I'm not 100 % sure if I really want to sell it. Nevertheless, if somebody is interested to buy my machine, let PM me if he is ready to spend 260 £ including the delivery Bulgaria - UK. The machine is in an excellent condition. ☺


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## Dylan

Naith said:


> Thing is, I don't want to take a risk and buy second hand - I like new stuff that only I have used if possible.
> 
> So for the same money is there anything better I could buy that's NEW?


Not really. There isn't a whole lot of competition at this particular price point, and the Gaggia Classic which is cheaper has gone seriously downhill.

But Spend another £120 and you can have an Oscar which is a proper HX.


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## Jumbo Ratty

Naith said:


> Thing is, I don't want to take a risk and buy second hand - I like new stuff that only I have used if possible.
> 
> So for the same money is there anything better I could buy that's NEW?


I agree, the Silvia does seem the obvious and almost only choice for that budget. Its what i would get.

There is this machine though that I have seen some impressive videos clips of. But Im not sure anyone has any first hand experience of owning one on here.

The Graef ES85

http://www.coffee-matters.co.uk/graef-stainless-steel-matt-finish-espresso-machine-steel/?gclid=Cj0KEQiAv5-zBRCAzfWGu-2jo70BEiQAj_F8oIejHdoltDrZUmTOIVW5Q8QZisSBI9yBUPoPKY78EXoaAqt28P8HAQ


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## Dylan

If your going to spend that kinda money on a SBDU, you may as well buy the Silvia as you know what your getting. There is the option of the Sage machines as well as they seem to have much better temperature control (no need for a PID), but reliability is called into question.


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## hez

I started another post about the "Silvia E" in the general forum a week or so ago (probably would have been better placed here, but was interested if this was common across other brands too, and sounds like it is with Gaggia): http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28162-New-Rancilio-Silvia-for-Europe-quot-Silvia-E-quot

I ended up going ahead and ordering the Silvia E because I figured the changes wouldn't materially bother my requirements. Will update everyone once I'm up and running.


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## hez

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I agree, the Silvia does seem the obvious and almost only choice for that budget. Its what i would get.
> 
> There is this machine though that I have seen some impressive videos clips of. But Im not sure anyone has any first hand experience of owning one on here.
> 
> The Graef ES85
> 
> http://www.coffee-matters.co.uk/graef-stainless-steel-matt-finish-espresso-machine-steel/?gclid=Cj0KEQiAv5-zBRCAzfWGu-2jo70BEiQAj_F8oIejHdoltDrZUmTOIVW5Q8QZisSBI9yBUPoPKY78EXoaAqt28P8HAQ


In respect to the Graef, this looks very similar to a machine I used to have (a number of years ago now) back in Australia sold under the Sunbeam brand. It was a good machine and always made reasonable coffee, but the build quality isn't there to last a long time. I moved on to a second hand Gaggia Classic after the Graef/Sunbeam one had a plastic hose split (the cost to repair it was prohibitive).

Without first hand knowledge of the particular Graef model, but with experience on what looks like its predecessor (or distant older cousin), I'd suggest the Graef is a good option for someone new to at home coffee making and doesn't want to deal with the finickiness of Miss Silvia, just don't expect the Graef to outlast your warranty period. According to Camelcamelcamel, they can be had regularly for £325-340 (and as low as £290) so I wouldn't pay £430.


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## Dylan

hez said:


> In respect to the Graef, this looks very similar to a machine I used to have (a number of years ago now) back in Australia sold under the Sunbeam brand. It was a good machine and always made reasonable coffee, but the build quality isn't there to last a long time. I moved on to a second hand Gaggia Classic after the Graef/Sunbeam one had a plastic hose split (the cost to repair it was prohibitive).
> 
> Without first hand knowledge of the particular Graef model, but with experience on what looks like its predecessor (or distant older cousin), I'd suggest the Graef is a good option for someone new to at home coffee making and doesn't want to deal with the finickiness of Miss Silvia, just don't expect the Graef to outlast your warranty period. According to Camelcamelcamel, they can be had regularly for £325-340 (and as low as £290) so I wouldn't pay £430.


But as above, if you cant expect the Graef to outlast it warranty then why buy one over a similarly priced Silvia?


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## ImthatGuy

Naith said:


> Thing is, I don't want to take a risk and buy second hand - I like new stuff that only I have used if possible.
> 
> So for the same money is there anything better I could buy that's NEW?


I've recently done a *lot* of research on this (had to replace a Delonghi starter setup that died of leaking). There isn't anything *better* for the price. For some people, the Gaggia is as good for a little less, but opinions seem to differ. I chose the Silvia because I don't like the Gaggia steam wand and I can't be bothered to have to mod the thing as soon as I buy it.

I know people think that the Silvia is overpriced, but compared to what else is around, it's good value. It's very solidly built from mostly commercial-grade components. Its simplicity makes it easier to maintain/repair.


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## hez

Dylan said:


> But as above, if you cant expect the Graef to outlast it warranty then why buy one over a similarly priced Silvia?


Agreed, hence I just took delivery of my shiny new Silvia today! But, there could be an argument that the Graef is easier to use (my old Sunbeam version was).


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## Naith

Thanks for all the replies guys. Just what I was looking for!

I'll reply in detail tomorrow as I've just got in late and it's been a very long day.

One question I have now is this: Is a HX machine such as the Simonelli Oscar really going to make a much better 'cafe con leche' than the Silvia? Nearly all the time I'm making coffee just for myself and also, I can't drink hot coffee as I haven't got an asbestos mouth, so I don't mind waiting until after brewing the coffee before starting to steam my milk...

Thanks


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## Dylan

Naith said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys. Just what I was looking for!
> 
> I'll reply in detail tomorrow as I've just got in late and it's been a very long day.
> 
> One question I have now is this: Is a HX machine such as the Simonelli Oscar really going to make a much better 'cafe con leche' than the Silvia? Nearly all the time I'm making coffee just for myself and also, I can't drink hot coffee as I haven't got an asbestos mouth, so I don't mind waiting until after brewing the coffee before starting to steam my milk...
> 
> Thanks


Basically, yes it will.

The Silvia does not have fantastic temperature stability at the group head, it has less thermal mass for the water to pass through in the group head and a boiler that is much smaller and cooled by incoming water as soon as you hit the brew switch.

It's the reason people add a PID to the Silvia, to stabalise this temperature, but even then the PID only goes so far.

With the Oscar the brew water is heated via a pipe that runs through a super heated boiler (this is the HX), this water also cycles through the group head, the combination of the HX and the group head provide a stable temperature from shot to shot.


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## AussieEx

Dylan said:


> Basically, yes it will.


might be true, but that thing is just so ugly I wouldn't be able to bring myself to buy it! I'm a happy camper with my PID Silvia V3 - each to his own.


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## Jumbo Ratty

Dylan said:


> The Silvia does not have fantastic temperature stability at the group head, it has less thermal mass for the water to pass through in the group head and a boiler that is much smaller and cooled by incoming water as soon as you hit the brew switch.


Do your self a favour and ignore dylans advice.

The boiler on a silvia is of an adequate size and is only marginally affected by a insignificant drop in temperature due to incoming water cooling it when you are pulling a shot.


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## Dylan

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Do your self a favour and ignore dylans advice.
> 
> The boiler on a silvia is of an adequate size and is only marginally affected by a insignificant drop in temperature due to incoming water cooling it when you are pulling a shot.
> 
> View attachment 18283


I think Ratty has been waiting for this retort since his invaluable advice on using blade grinders.

You can see the same results on a Classic as the graph above when you get the temperature right, doesn't make it as temperature stable as a HX.


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## Jumbo Ratty

Dylan said:


> You can see the same results on a Classic as the graph above when you get the temperature right


You are incorrect.

The silvia loses about 2 degrees whereas the gaggia loses 8 degrees, which is 4 times as much, so not the same


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## Dylan

From the thread you are pulling those graphs from



> The Silvia shots were all over the place as they were from different parts of the temperature cycle. Nevertheless, the stability within the shot was always within 2 deg C


It is as simple as this Ratty, a Silvia is not as temperature stable as an entry level HX, it will not make coffee that is as repeatable as a HX. Even if the OP only ever made one coffee at a time it is common to get a bad pour or want to re-do another shot. A HX will do this, back to back and time and again, the Silvia will suffer erratic temperatures.


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## Jumbo Ratty

No attempt at temperature surfing was made during the course of making the graphs.

This does not detract from the insignificant drop in temperature when 60mls of water is being drawn through the portafilter.


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## Naith

OK, so here's my situation...

I've had a Demoka machine (made in Spain) for the last 10 years. I bought it new (here in Spain) for €99 (don't laugh!). I have used bottled water in it and have never de-scaled it (!). It has run great until recently, when it seems to have lost a little pressure and the shots sometimes don't come through.

Anyway, looking at all the recent machines in the shops there only seems to be cheap and nasty pod machines available and the most basic (and plasticky) espresso machines. That's when I realised I would have to order on-line if I wanted anything of decent quality. So the big question was, WHICH machine should I buy? I'm willing to spend around the £3-400 mark for a NEW (I prefer new to second-hand) machine and simply want the best for that money. It didn't take long browsing forums such as this one as well as Google to see the name of one machine popping up consistently - the Rancilio Silvia. However, I'm the type to do plenty of research before buying anything that's meant to last, and reading a few posts have seen a few say that for a bit more it's possible to buy a superior machine - Eg. the Simonelli Oscar. So that's where I'm at right now.

I'll let you know my coffee habits so you can address my needs. I usually make from 3-5 coffees a week (yes I know, not many) and they are all made with milk. I'm the only coffee drinker in the house as my wife doesn't drink it. The only time I would make more than one coffee in a row would be when we have guests, which isn't all that often. Up to now, all my guests have loved their coffees here - the only thing is, there's a bit of a gap between them if more than two want coffee! Maybe with a half-decent machine I would try to get into drinking espressos, who knows.

At the moment I use an Ascaso i-2 grinder which does the job with the beans I buy from the local supermarket. It's stepless and seems to grind to an even standard. I realise though, that given time I may have to upgrade my grinder to get the most out of my new machine...

So as you can all see, I am no coffee connoisseur







. My standards are extremely low, especially when I read the lengths some of you guys go to to get the perfect shot. However, I'm willing to learn more about the art of making coffee and find it most interesting. So I seem to be stuck between the Silvia and the Oscar at the moment. I must admit, I think the Oscar is hideous to look at (it looks like some of the €60 machines I see in the local supermarkets). Sorry! However, I realise the importance of decent coffee is not how beautiful the machine is that produces it, but how WELL it produces it. So, I'm not averse to putting up with the Oscar, as long as it's black.

I can't help thinking though, that even though the Silvia is slightly (or greatly, depending who I ask) inferior to the Oscar, with my lack of skills and experience it's still going to be one heck of an upgrade if I do decide to go for the Silvia. I've seen that one of the best upgrades for the Silvia is a PID kit (I was also encouraged to get an upgrade for the Oscar, so that would bump the cost up too). I read an article recently about the meCoffee PID kit that fits inside the Silvia and is controlled via bluetooth by your mobile phone (for around €119 I believe). It seems to get some good reviews. Maybe that would be a worthwhile upgrade if I do go for the Silvia?

Anyway, that's basically my situation. I want to thank all those who have offered their opinions. I hope I haven't started any forum war though - chill out boys!









I welcome your comments and suggestions from herein...

Thanks!


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## ImthatGuy

I've just ordered the meCoffee PID kit - if you don't mind waiting a couple of days, I'll post some impressions.

On your main point, I'm probably similar to you - I like a good coffee, but I'm not really a connoisseur. I went with the Silvia because it's solid, robust and does what I tell it to


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## Jumbo Ratty

Naith said:


> So I seem to be stuck between the Silvia and the Oscar at the moment. I must admit, I think the Oscar is hideous to look at (it looks like some of the €60 machines I see in the local supermarkets). Sorry! However, I realise the importance of decent coffee is not how beautiful the machine is that produces it, but how WELL it produces it. So, I'm not averse to putting up with the Oscar, as long as it's black.
> 
> I can't help thinking though, that even though the Silvia is slightly (or greatly, depending who I ask) inferior to the Oscar, with my lack of skills and experience it's still going to be one heck of an upgrade if I do decide to go for the Silvia. I've seen that one of the best upgrades for the Silvia is a PID kit (I was also encouraged to get an upgrade for the Oscar, so that would bump the cost up too). I read an article recently about the meCoffee PID kit that fits inside the Silvia and is controlled via bluetooth by your mobile phone (for around €119 I believe). It seems to get some good reviews. Maybe that would be a worthwhile upgrade if I do go for the Silvia?


If you are thinking about the oscar, which I also think is hideous, and bare in mind you are only making 3\5 drinks a week and it will just be sitting there looking shit for the rest of the time I would wait until the newer Oscar II version is out, which is immanent. Although I have no idea of the price, but from what I believe is inline with the previous model.

http://www.nuovasimonelli.it/en/prodotti/macchine-tradizionali/4857-oscar-ii-eng.html

Id still rather have the Silvia though, especially with the meCoffee PID fitted


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## Bigal

ImthatGuy said:


> I've just ordered the meCoffee PID kit - if you don't mind waiting a couple of days, I'll post some impressions.
> 
> On your main point, I'm probably similar to you - I like a good coffee, but I'm not really a connoisseur. I went with the Silvia because it's solid, robust and does what I tell it to


where do you get the meCoffee PID kit ?


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## ImthatGuy

Bigal said:


> where do you get the meCoffee PID kit ?


https://mecoffee.nl/

The only review I've found is here: http://www.rojtberg.net/1109/mecoffee-pid-controller-for-the-rancilio-silvia/

And there was a thread on these forums: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25728-MeCoffee-and-MeBarista-PID-for-Silvia


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## Dylan

Not sure if the price of the new Oscar had been posted yet.

Here it is on Elektros.it

Available Jan and a couple of hundred euros extra for those shiny panels.

http://elektros.it/gb/en/oscar_II_nuova-Simonelli/oscar-II-black.html


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## Dylan

Naith:

The major problem with the Oscar as discussed above is that when you buy it as standard it has a huge temperature fluctuation in the boiler. This issue is resolved with a PID like the mecoffee and would suit your needs of a few coffees a week.

A HX still has its advantages but they aren't things you will take advantage of. If you were to entertain guests and want to pull several coffees back to back you might find the Silvia would lose temperature in the later shots, and lose steam pressure with a lot of steamed milk. Since this isn't something you see yourself doing (and the Silvia is a nicer looking machine) it seems you are making the right choice.


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## Jumbo Ratty

Dylan said:


> Not sure if the price of the new Oscar had been posted yet.
> 
> Here it is on Elektros.it
> 
> Available Jan and a couple of hundred euros extra for those shiny panels.
> 
> http://elektros.it/gb/en/oscar_II_nuova-Simonelli/oscar-II-black.html


By my calculations the newer stainless steel panel model is actually cheaper than the older, plasticy job

820 euros = £595.32p for the new model

old model is £635.39 on amazon

cant see any mention of paying extra for the shiny panels. thought they came as stock


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## jlarkin

Jumbo Ratty said:


> By my calculations the newer stainless steel panel model is actually cheaper than the older, plasticy job
> 
> 820 euros = £595.32p for the new model
> 
> old model is £635.39 on amazon
> 
> cant see any mention of paying extra for the shiny panels. thought they came as stock


Elektros have it on for 625 EUR? http://elektros.it/gb/en/oscar_nuov_simonelli/macchina-da-caffe-nuova-simonelli-oscar-rossa.html


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## Jumbo Ratty

Dylan said:


> Naith:
> 
> *The major problem with the **Oscar** as discussed above* is that when you buy it as standard it has a huge temperature fluctuation in the boiler. This issue is resolved with a PID like the mecoffee and would suit your needs of a few coffees a week.
> 
> A HX still has its advantages but they aren't things you will take advantage of. If you were to entertain guests and want to pull several coffees back to back you might find the Silvia would lose temperature in the later shots, and lose steam pressure with a lot of steamed milk. Since this isn't something you see yourself doing (and the Silvia is a nicer looking machine) it seems you are making the right choice.


Do you mean the Silvia and not the oscar?


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## Dylan

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Do you mean the Silvia and not the oscar?


Yes I do.

And yea, Elektros is much cheaper than the UK prices.


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## bupkis

I've heard from my local Rancilio dealer--who sells both the Silvia and the Auber PID kit (and Silvias with the Auber PID kit pre-installed)--that he has heard from Auber that they are not sure their PID can be fitted to a Silvia E. It seems the 30-minute EU-mandated shutoff is a problem...


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## Naith

Just a quick update. I went with the Oscar and I've had it a week now. WHAT a difference! Along with the new machine, I've bought beans roasted the same day and again, WHAT a difference! Now, hopefully I get my new grinder tomorrow and then we're sorted... for now









Thanks a bunch for all your help - it's much appreciated


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## Markat26

If you don't mind me asking did you get it from the elektro site? If so how much was postage and what happens about warranty?


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## GrahamS

This EU rule is silly in the case of coffee machines - it may make sense for something that turns on instantly, like a tv, but for a machine that needs to reach a stable temp over a preriod of 30+mins and may be in use all day, it's stupid. hopefully it's just a timer, that can be bypassed


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## PPapa

I haven't done much research on Rancilios at all, but I guess that Silvia E in EU = Silvia M in US.


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## Deejaysuave

Beat me too it


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## nicholasj

Mrboots2u said:


> that its no "better " than the v4 and still over priced


And I think they have just gone up again.....£389 now!


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## nicholasj

ImthatGuy said:


> https://mecoffee.nl/
> 
> The only review I've found is here: http://www.rojtberg.net/1109/mecoffee-pid-controller-for-the-rancilio-silvia/
> 
> And there was a thread on these forums: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?25728-MeCoffee-and-MeBarista-PID-for-Silvia


I just wonder if adding control via Bluetooth to the PID not very robust a solution. Do the mccoffee PIDs have a record of reliability?


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## nicholasj

bupkis said:


> I've heard from my local Rancilio dealer--who sells both the Silvia and the Auber PID kit (and Silvias with the Auber PID kit pre-installed)--that he has heard from Auber that they are not sure their PID can be fitted to a Silvia E. It seems the 30-minute EU-mandated shutoff is a problem...


Good point. I'd be interested to know if the E version with its auto shutoff does affect the Auber compatibility.

i also wonder if the auto shut off can be disabled or by passed?

edit..from Auber today. "Yes, the kit is compatible with the E. We added instruction for Silvia E installation recently"


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## nicholasj

GrahamS said:


> This EU rule is silly in the case of coffee machines - it may make sense for something that turns on instantly, like a tv, but for a machine that needs to reach a stable temp over a preriod of 30+mins and may be in use all day, it's stupid. hopefully it's just a timer, that can be bypassed


I wonder if switching it off briefly and then back on would restart the 30 minute timer. Hardly a solution I know!


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## GrahamS

there is almost certainly going to be a relay somewhere that switches the machine off after a period of time. join the two leads together, and it's bypassed


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## Seda

Hi

I bought the new Silvia 2016, and my heart it's broken. It doesn't go more than 80 degrees Celsius and the seller of coffeeitalia.uk said it was normal...is that right? My ex V3 was best


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## Dylan

That does not sound right at all.

coffeeitalia dont have the best reputation for customer service so I wouldn't take them at their word.

How are you measuring the temp?


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## Dylan

Specs here:http://www.jlhufford.com/Rancilio-Silvia-M-V5-Espresso-Machine-new-for-2016-p/rancilio-silvia-m-v5.htm

Say the brew temp is 192-205f or 88-96c.

You need to be sure you are measuring the temp accurately at the point it exits the brew head with a fast (k-type) thermometer. If you are doing this then 80deg is too low.


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## Seda

With a digital thermometer


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## Seda

So I better return it and ask for a refund

since I bought it by PayPal last Thursday, I was already dreaming of a beautiful espresso with beans from Costa Rica.


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## Seda

Dylan said:


> Specs here:http://www.jlhufford.com/Rancilio-Silvia-M-V5-Espresso-Machine-new-for-2016-p/rancilio-silvia-m-v5.htm
> 
> Say the brew temp is 192-205f or 88-96c.
> 
> You need to be sure you are measuring the temp accurately at the point it exits the brew head with a fast (k-type) thermometer. If you are doing this then 80deg is too low.


Exactly like that with a digital thermometer. Like I have done with my old V3. I bought it last Thursday with PayPal maybe it's a case to return it. It's there a better place to do business online? Because I leave in Portugal.


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## Dylan

I'm not sure with Portugal to be honest, you may be limited for options.


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## Seda

Dylan said:


> I'm not sure with Portugal to be honest, you may be limited for options.


You are correct that's why I buy online from Uk. This is the first time I was not well served. And I do love miss Silvia


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## DevonStan

I haven't read every single post here, but am I right in saying the purchase was from CoffeeItalia? I'm probably teaching granny to suck eggs but surely the after sales would now be with the firm in Wales who do the warranty work for CI...the fella's name is Frank. Lots of people speak about the place here (and elsewhere, of course).

What's the name of the place? It's escaped me. I'll think of it in a minute.

It's Ferrari's, of course. Silly me. Mind you, there are two Ferraris in Wales and both do coffe gear and both are close to each other. I'll have a look to see which is which.

Ferrari Espresso Ltd

Kodak House. Unit 9

Abergarw Trading Estate

Bridgend CF32 9LW

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 01656 723197

Frank and Michelle are the directors according to the listings etc. I spoke to Frank once. Very helpful. Although he did lean very much to Fracino rather than whatever it was I was asking about in the first place


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## Seda

I bought from cafeeitalia.uk, and who every he is just say this Silvia just just reach 80 degrees Celsius and hung down in my face.


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## Mrboots2u

Seda said:


> I bought from cafeeitalia.uk, and who every he is just say this Silvia just just reach 80 degrees Celsius and hung down in my face.


At what point in the temp cycle are you measuring the water ? When the light is on / off etc ?


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## Seda

Last time I turn it on for 25 minutes take water enough to set the boiler on again and tried the water from the head group and tried again several times doing the same procedure making the boiler heated and it was just 72 to 74 degrees. Tried the steam button take water from the hot water lei it go open the orange light again and it reached 80 degrees


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