# Possible grinder issue with Barista Pro machine



## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

Hello everyone, first time poster here.. ?

Ive owned the Sage Barista Pro now for about 10 weeks. The first couple of weeks took a bit of time getting used to using a manual machine as I'd previously owned an Nespresso machine. Ordered my first batch of beans from Rave (signature blend & Italian Job), the signature blend was extracting really nicely (22-25 secs) with a grind size of 8 & and grind time of 12.5 secs.

When I moved onto the Italian Job blend with was probably 3-4 weeks from the roasted date it then started extracting at about 15 seconds. I thought this may be due to the fact that the beans weren't the freshest, so I purchased 2 new blends from The Coffee Factory to try. These 2 new roasts are extracting at exactly the same time again ( 7 secs from the first drip to stopping at 15 secs on every extraction, just pours out as well). I've even tried adjusting the grind setting right down to 1 or 2 on the machine but it is making no difference, it grinds the coffee really fine if the machine is set to 2 or if I set it to 20 or 30. ?

Any advise on what I may have done wrong all of a sudden ?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

coffeesnob75 said:


> Hello everyone, first time poster here.. ?
> 
> Ive owned the Sage Barista Pro now for about 10 weeks. The first couple of weeks took a bit of time getting used to using a manual machine as I'd previously owned an Nespresso machine. Ordered my first batch of beans from Rave (signature blend & Italian Job), the signature blend was extracting really nicely (22-25 secs) with a grind size of 8 & and grind time of 12.5 secs.
> 
> ...


 What we the weights in grams of each and what was the volume in the basket relative to the razor/tamper line?


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

coffeesnob75 said:


> Hello everyone, first time poster here.. ?
> 
> Ive owned the Sage Barista Pro now for about 10 weeks. The first couple of weeks took a bit of time getting used to using a manual machine as I'd previously owned an Nespresso machine. Ordered my first batch of beans from Rave (signature blend & Italian Job), the signature blend was extracting really nicely (22-25 secs) with a grind size of 8 & and grind time of 12.5 secs.
> 
> ...


 Try increasing the ground coffee weight in the portafilter. Depending on the coffee i use between 16 and 18.5g. If you are grinding on a finer setting than 8 but still on 12.5 seconds the weight in the filter with be lower than if you grind on 8, finer grind takes longer.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> What we the weights in grams of each and what was the volume in the basket relative to the razor/tamper line?


 Don't have any scales available so haven't been weighing the dose. Got a new batch of Rave Espresso blend today & the trimmed dose after tamping only trimmed off very fine excess (if that makes sense) and not a great mound off the top.

Again it extracted at 14 seconds.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

Dalerst said:


> Try increasing the ground coffee weight in the portafilter. Depending on the coffee i use between 16 and 18.5g. If you are grinding on a finer setting than 8 but still on 12.5 seconds the weight in the filter with be lower than if you grind on 8, finer grind takes longer.


 Thanks for the tip, never thought of that & will definitely give it a try.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Rookie move scales are like £10 on ebay get the tough weigh ones buy some soon. Be soon up and running


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

When weighing 18g of beans before grinding, do you guys put only 18g of coffee in your hoppers ?

Just tried out my new scales today with 18g of beans, & i'm still only getting a pre-infused shot that starts pouring at 7 secs & stops at 14 secs. ?


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## Squidgyblack (Nov 18, 2019)

coffeesnob75 said:


> When weighing 18g of beans before grinding, do you guys put only 18g of coffee in your hoppers ?
> 
> Just tried out my new scales today with 18g of beans, & i'm still only getting a pre-infused shot that starts pouring at 7 secs & stops at 14 secs. ?


 You want to weigh the portafilter when it's empty, tare it, and then weigh it with your grounds in it and get 18g there.

The Sage grinder will retain at least 3 or 4g of coffee most of the time, especially if you're only putting a small amount in. You want to weigh the output after grinding.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

Squidgyblack said:


> You want to weigh the portafilter when it's empty, tare it, and then weigh it with your grounds in it and get 18g there.
> 
> The Sage grinder will retain at least 3 or 4g of coffee most of the time, especially if you're only putting a small amount in. You want to weigh the output after grinding.


 Thanks, will give this a try tomorrow morning.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

Well, I'm stumped! This morning I put 19g of beans in the hopper, done my grind & weighed the portafilter which had 18.6g of coffee in it. After levelling & tamping it has 18.2g but it still extracted the exact same as it has been the last month or so.

I just can't get my head around how this machine has suddenly gone from extracting at 22-25 secs to stopping at 14 second every single time.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Can you adjust the burr holder to get a finer grind?

How much espresso do you get in the cup?

Don't grind into the PF, grind into another vessel, weigh the coffee exactly, then transfer to PF, tap with heel of the hand to level, tamp.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Can you adjust the burr holder to get a finer grind?
> 
> How much espresso do you get in the cup?
> 
> Don't grind into the PF, grind into another vessel, weigh the coffee exactly, then transfer to PF, tap with heel of the hand to level, tamp.


 Thanks for the tips to try. Much appreciated. ??

It's set on 6/10 at present. Will try it set on 5 next.

Haven't tried weighing espresso in the cup, will try these next.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Are you pulling manually? 
Don't use the presets they are all over the place


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Are you pulling manually?
> Don't use the presets they are all over the place


 Pre-programmed shot. Tried custom double shot but it just pours out for 25+ secs & fills the cup up far too much.

Will try manual.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

MWJB said:


> Can you adjust the burr holder to get a finer grind?
> 
> How much espresso do you get in the cup?
> 
> Don't grind into the PF, grind into another vessel, weigh the coffee exactly, then transfer to PF, tap with heel of the hand to level, tamp.


 Got 60ml in weight out of a 16 second extraction this teatime.

Could my machine have a pressure problem ? Most of the video's I've watched recently show pre-infusion doesn't usually start for 10+ seconds.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

60ml isn't a weight, please use scales & grams.

Can you go finer? If not, go on youtube and search for 'top burr adjustment'

Can't you determine the custom shot & end it when you choose (just before the scales hit 60g)?.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

Sorry, meant 60g not ml. I'm at setting 4/30 & 5/10 on internal burr.

Will try 20g of coffee tomorrow to see if that helps with the extraction time.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

coffeesnob75 said:


> Sorry, it was 60g not ml. I'm at setting 4/30 & 5/10 on internal burr.
> 
> Will try 20g of coffee tomorrow to see if that helps with the extraction time.


 Even if it stretches out the time, the 10% bigger dose will be harder to extract well.

Time is not the prime driver of extraction, grind setting is (it's just a byproduct of finer grinds that you also get longer shot times).


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

I'm a fellow novice, one thing I believe (somebody correct me if i'm wrong) is if you keep changing beans you are making it very difficult for you to dial in. Different beans will require different grind settings and thus will extract differently, at least in my limited experience.

I have a Bambino Plus, one thing that was a bit of a revelation to me (shows how inexperienced I am) was the realisation that the presets are just minor conveniences, they are not 'desirable targets' that you have to adjust to. Unless you have a perfect grinder and perfectly consistent dosing, distribution, tamping etc they are not going to extract the same amount from one shot to the next (they will be there or thereabouts). Hence the advice about running the shots manually...stop them when they hit your target weight. In my case the presets were pushing me to extractions that were much too fast, so I was actually grinding too coarsely to get the preset to hit my desired 1:2 ratio. Instead what I should have been doing is altering the grind and the shot time to hit a taste that I liked...for me 1:2 ratio and about a 30 second extraction time produces a flavour that I prefer to what I was getting before when trying to use the preset.

A long way of saying the preset is not sacrosanct, and don't change other things (grind, dose, extraction time) just to avoid changing the preset. In my case, the grind was fine and I should have just extracted for longer (and ignored the preset). And don't change beans if you are trying to learn, it will make it very difficult.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

facboy said:


> I'm a fellow novice, one thing I believe (somebody correct me if i'm wrong) is if you keep changing beans you are making it very difficult for you to dial in. Different beans will require different grind settings and thus will extract differently, at least in my limited experience.
> 
> I have a Bambino Plus, one thing that was a bit of a revelation to me (shows how inexperienced I am) was the realisation that the presets are just minor conveniences, they are not 'desirable targets' that you have to adjust to. Unless you have a perfect grinder and perfectly consistent dosing, distribution, tamping etc they are not going to extract the same amount from one shot to the next (they will be there or thereabouts). Hence the advice about running the shots manually...stop them when they hit your target weight. In my case the presets were pushing me to extractions that were much too fast, so I was actually grinding too coarsely to get the preset to hit my desired 1:2 ratio. Instead what I should have been doing is altering the grind and the shot time to hit a taste that I liked...for me 1:2 ratio and about a 30 second extraction time produces a flavour that I prefer to what I was getting before when trying to use the preset.
> 
> A long way of saying the preset is not sacrosanct, and don't change other things (grind, dose, extraction time) just to avoid changing the preset. In my case, the grind was fine and I should have just extracted for longer (and ignored the preset). And don't change beans if you are trying to learn, it will make it very difficult.


 I'll be going back to Rave's Signature Blend next week. This was the blend I had the most success with when I first bought the machine, and will be interesting to see how this extracts.


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

I think I may have finally found out why all of my grinds are looking the same, whether set to 1 or 30.

When I removed the burr and lower grinder to do a thorough clean last month, it looks like I've hoovered out the metal washer & felt washer (what a complete idiot). I have tried to call & email Sage about possibly purchasing 2 new washers, but I guess they aren't working at the moment due to the current climate.


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## Instant no more ! (Feb 17, 2015)

coffeesnob75 said:


> I think I may have finally found out why all of my grinds are looking the same, whether set to 1 or 30.
> 
> When I removed the burr and lower grinder to do a thorough clean last month, *it looks like I've hoovered out the metal washer & felt washe*r (what a complete idiot). I have tried to call & email Sage about possibly purchasing 2 new washers, but I guess they aren't working at the moment due to the current climate.


 That sucks 😷


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## coffeesnob75 (Apr 5, 2020)

Can anyone confirm that the grinder on the Barista Express is identical to the Pro ?

I see that an inner burr washer & a felt washer can be ordered on their site under the Express spare parts but it's not showing under the Pro.

Edit. Doesn't look like they have any stock of them anyway. 😟

Received a reply from support telling me to purchase a new upper burr, doesn't say anything on site that this part includes the grind fan, metal & felt washer though.


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