# Timing shots...



## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

I work at a coffee shop where I'm the only "serious" coffee drinker (a one shot latte flooded with sugar doesn't count







). So working behind the machine, I tasted my shots for our two main beans (med and dark roasts) when I start and fairly regularly during the day. Providing you have a clean basket/ PF, groups been flushed to the correct temp, grinder is well set etc., you should get a decent shot. Obviously, even if the flow looks perfect, you could still get a really nasty shot.

So today, I was asked weather I had "timed my shots". I replied "No, but I've tasted them". Apparently, getting a shot flowing for 25 seconds is of paramount importance over getting a nice tasting shot. (despite most people not cleaning the basket properly, and failing to flush the group correctly)

For the record, the shots were 23 & 24 seconds for the medium and dark roast respectively. It just gets on my nerves having people who describe coffee as "disgusting" trying to explain how it should be done. I wouldn't send out shit espresso, because I know how nasty bad espresso tastes.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

This is one of those instances where a little information can be dangerous.

25 seconds is a good place to start when evaluating and dialling in a bean as you can go a few seconds either way before running into under or over extraction issues with standard double doses.

However, there is no reason to only extract for 25 seconds.

Was the coffee tasted by the customer before the observation was made?


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

We don't have much of a coffee base where I work. It's a smallish town in the south west. I'd love to do taster days and stuff, but I just don't think we have the customer base.

But I am very keen on getting it tasting just right. For example, our dark roast can be very easily messed up. But with a bit of care, it's makes a really nice espresso (much preferred over the medium roasts we have going)

But that coffee tastes much better with a slightly quicker shot. Unfortunately, people have been told 25 seconds, and follow it a little to religiously.


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

The problem is David, the extraction time is a very basic indicator. Generally speaking every espresso will have a different sweet spot. An extraction time is used as a "round about the sweet spot" indicator. It obviously falls apart in many ways. Let's say that with the dark roast a nice full basket and well made shot would taste good about 24 secs. We could quite easily dose half the amount but make it much finer, tamp really hard and still have 24 secs. However, it will taste like crap.

Obviously we have a lot of shops and a lot of staff so an extraction time is given as a standard indicator. As you say, the majority don't drink coffee and won't even taste an espresso so there is only so far you can take training. So this is the best way to create a consistantly made espresso assuming the shot has been dosed/tamped correctly etc.

The moat important thing is the taste of espresso though. I feel for you mate as those above you are possibly not as passionate or have the same level of understanding. My best advice is to not get upset, stay calm and have a quiet word with Steph. Explain why you haven't set the extraction time at "25secs". (the training manual says between 21-25 anyway, ie taste it) Feel free to say I told you to use your judgement.

I've spent years getting angry with those above me because I care about the product. Take it from me mate that it won't get you anywhere! Stick with it mate and keep pulling the superb shots.

Lee

P.s. My email is [email protected] you are welcome to email me anytime if you have any issues.


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm not angry as such (I knew it would come across that way







) It was just a bit staggered,, as normally people leave me to my own thing, heh. But the biggest pain is the time wasted. I know it's around the correct time, because it tastes as it should, not because a stop watch told me.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I'm glad you raised this topic as it highlights the issues faced by baristas and can relate this to other industries too, such as travel.

Everyone thinks they are a travel agent and often spend a lot of time looking for the cheapest airfare, and in the case of corporate travel they will be spending time (for which they are paid) to search for a deal, when they could use (and trust) their travel agent to deliver best value, as the agents tools and knowledge is often much better than theirs.

The analogy is that the client has a little information from what they have read or have researched but the experience and knowledge of alternative flights / times / search methods is similar to a baristas knowledge of altering a shot to get a better taste, using the right tools / time and methods to get the best out of each bean.

There will be times where 25 seconds is optimal, for a roast of a particular bean, but for the same bean when using a different batch then 26 seconds might be best. The customer will not understand this until they are educated. Some like to understand more about the process whereas others may be closed minded.

The only thing you could do in this situation is to explain that you start dialling in from 25 seconds and that this roast required a quicker shot, but next week it could be that a slightly longer extraction is required to hit the sweet spot.


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## LeeWardle (Nov 16, 2008)

The problem is with the staff Glenn. I likethe analogy though!!!!

David, angry was probably the wrong word. I just mean dont let your frustration show. Make sure Steph knows what you are doing and keep me informed.


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

If it was all about following a set routine then surely a bean to cup machine would replicate the perfect shot every time? This is not the case, and as a customer I prefer the expert and passionate touch. A lot of the main coffee chains employ automatons and serve an average drink. I know from my tinkering at home there are so many factors in making the perfect shot and appalled when I see baristas taking less care and attention. Those that show the passion and are tweaking to deliver a better experience get my vote.


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## Paul (Jul 5, 2010)

25 sec for 60ml perfect.


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