# Grinding/Extraction Issues - The Oracle



## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

I've had the Oracle for several months now and on the whole I am very happy with it.

It obviously depends on the beans but I mostly find a grind setting of around 21 is perfect for the right extraction.

This starts extracting after 9/10 seconds and finishes in 20-30 seconds giving me the perfect quantity of espresso.

However I couldn't get my usual supply of coffee this week so went for one I found online which they claimed were roasted to order (could be true).

I tried a grind setting of 21 but it started extracting after 3 seconds and produced far too much coffee (i.e. too under extracted). So I've been gradually dialling down the grind so it's finer but still it extracts too quickly and produces too much. I've now gone as low as 5 as the grind setting but it's not much better.

In this process I've wasted a lot of coffee!

Could anyone advice what I might need to do to sort this?

Is it the beans? Is there possibly a problem with the machine? I have to admit it while grinding it did seems to make the loud grinding sound it makes when the hopper is empty of beans...but the quantity of ground coffee looks right. I've also tried taking the hopper off and cleaning it.

Will contact Sage next week but hoped I might get some help on here.

Thanks


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

What is your usual supply? Are the beans a noticeably different roast level?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Welcome to coffee. All beans will require a different grind setting, occasionally this is a huge difference especially if switching from rested beans to a super fresh roast.

Very fresh beans (e.g 1-2 days) will need a finer grind, once they settle down the grind will need to be a bit coarser .

Was there a roast date on the bag?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

As what these guys said what's your new beans roast level and roast date?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I have an Oracle & only use darker roasted beans.

My grind settings are usually between 4 & 8. This grind produces 45 grams espresso out using 22.5 grams into the basket. Takes about 42 seconds including pre infusion.

I have the auto tamp set to 5 for 5 seconds & the pre infusion set for 10 seconds

Its a pre set dose with very little scope for changing.

The grind can change on a daily basis dependant on ambient temperature,age of beans amongst other things.

Suggest you try a very fine grind & see if that chokes the machine or extends the extraction time. Work coarser from this until you get the drink you prefer.

Welcome to the forum.


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

thanks for the quick replies.

Yes the beans do appear a lot darker/more oily.

When i bought them the reviews suggested that they would have a roasted date but they don't.

They have Best Before end of Nov 2016 printed on the bag.

As I said I did dial down as much as 5 but didn't think I would ever need to go that low.

Maybe I'll try setting it to 1-2 but it just didn't seem to get any better the finer I went.

I usually buy from a place where the beans are wood roasted and have a roasted date of 2-3 weeks prior to purchase. Not sure when these were roasted...as I said it just has a BB date.

Thanks


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

'Sell by' dates do not mean very much with coffee beans. Its very important to know the date they were roasted.

Why not try one of the top quality roasters who advertise on the forum.


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

Thanks Ron. will compare my settings. I must admit I haven't gone in and adjusted the tamp and pre infusion. Just left them as the default.

the beans are a dark roast. They're called Colombia Huila.


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

will have a look at the roasters advertising on here. I would ask for personal recommendations but I guess it's all personal taste.

I must admit I'm pretty happy with my usual supplier (UE) but would like to try and get a good coffee out of these ones I bought a big bag (redber coffee). They do seem pretty fresh and a dark roast so maybe I just need to try finer.

thanks


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

tried with a grind setting of 1 and it still produced too much coffee from a single shot.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

If you like dark beans then Coffee Compass or Rave is the way to go.

If you are not choking at 1 then sounds like you need Sage

Have you ever taken the burrs out for cleaning? Maybe gunged up is a possibility, worth a try,

Ron


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

You could also, if not already, drop the roaster an email or given them a call explaining the issues and the best before dates to see if they can give you a roasted date from that information (assuming you bought from them direct and not from Amazon / e-bay sellers etc as these stocks could be significantly older if held in their warehouses rather than the roaster themselves)

The above would also give the roaster the opportunity to correct if bought direct from them if a mistake has been made.

Plus 1 on the comments above re Rave / Coffee Compass for an alternate bean source.

John


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

thanks. Tried Rave once before but that was with an old bean to cup machine. Plus I didn't buy direct so I think they were probably older than when buying direct. Will give them another go and also give Coffee Compass a go too.

thanks again for you comments....as suggested I think I'll also contact the roaster and possibly sage to see if I can get a good coffee out of these.


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

oh and yes I clean the burrs quite regularly. seem ok to me.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yarmy28 said:


> tried with a grind setting of 1 and it still produced too much coffee from a single shot.


What do you mean by too much coffee and single shot ? Your using the bakset supplied with the oracle . How much coffee in weight is this grind setting making over what time please.

With the supplied bakset and really light roaster beans I never had it set anywhere near 1 for a 1:2 ratio extraction .


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

I press the single shot of espresso button.

it starts extracting at 7 secs into a small measuring jug I have but I need to stop the extraction at 17 secs as it's already extracted 2.5 ounces (70ml).

I'm not sure on the grind quantity I haven't adjusted any of the default values. I'm also using the supplied basket.

I've never had to set it to 1 either. In fact with the beans I've been using until now it hasn't been lower than 17.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yarmy28 said:


> I press the single shot of espresso button.
> 
> it starts extracting at 7 secs into a small measuring jug I have but I need to stop the extraction at 17 secs as it's already extracted 2.5 ounces (70ml).
> 
> ...


Different coffee's need different grinds , grind finer


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

yes i know they need different grinds. I change the grind setting for every bean I buy. as I've already said in this thread I now have the grind setting set to '1' so I can't go any finer unless I use a different grinder!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yarmy28 said:


> yes i know they need different grinds. I change the grind setting for every bean I buy. as I've already said in this thread I now have the grind setting set to '1' so I can't go any finer unless I use a different grinder!


I would guess if they are a dark Either your grinder is knackered or your beans are stale . Are they from a roaster or a supermarket ? My money would be on stale beans . What's the roast date ? Where do you keep them ?

EDIT sorry you already told us this

No roast date I would suggest the beans are stale


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Did you get a response from the roaster re date of roast?

John


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

remove beans from the equation but some with a know roast date , see if this normalises things

if not , then check the grinder , take it apart , clean it , put it back together again .

Does the grind look normal at fine settings ?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Try different beans from a reliable source.


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

Thanks. The beans are from a roastery which claims they are roasted to order. Only bought them last week. Going to contact them tomorrow. Cheers


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

And yes will go back to my normal beans supplier!

coffee looks normal when grinded.

given the grinder a clean and all looks ok.

as suggested though will get some beans with a known roast date and confirm it's an issue with these beans.

thanks for your replies.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Stale coffee or very badly roasted coffee could be the case here


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## yarmy28 (Sep 23, 2016)

yarmy28 said:


> And yes will go back to my normal beans supplier!
> 
> coffee looks normal when grinded.
> 
> ...


new fresh beans worked perfectly so yes defo an issue with the beans!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You can normally sniff out bad beans by giving them a sniff!


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