# Londinium Coffee



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I thought I'd start a dedicated Londinium thread for us all to discuss our experiences with what I personally believe to be the finest beans available.

There are a lot of good roasters that get a lot of attention on this forum but as far as I can see Londinium are by far and away the most underrated and under-discussed of the lot which is a shame for such a deserving roaster.

I have had a lot of good, and indeed some excellent beans from various sources and would highly recommend quite a few to anyone who would care to ask, but for me every single time I have had Londinium beans I find that I'm just totally blown away.

The combination of the quality of bean purchased and the detailed know-how and sheer 'feel' Reiss seems to have for roasting produces an end result on the palate that to my taste anyway, is second to none - by quite some considerable distance.

Its quite hard to give a context to what I mean without comparing against specific offerings from other roasters and I really don't want to do that because I think that would be quite unfair and inappropriate.

So I thought I'd post this so that we can keep an on-going dialogue and discussion of our experiences with Londinium beans, by way of our findings as to taste profiles, recipe recommendations or just pure appreciation.

It might well be the case that there is a perception that these beans are only any good out of lever machines, specifically the L1, or that these beans are just the same as many others unless via a lever. That sinly isnt the case and woiuld be quite incorrect however. I don't have an L1 and never have had (sadly). I have a rotary pump Fracino Classic yet Londinium grinds produce espresso in my cup like nothing else that has ever graced my shelves. So please don't think you need top of the range hardware to get top notch results with these beans because you don't. Sure, I might get an even better result with a lever, of that I have no doubt, but then that is true for almost all beans I suspect.

For a long time now I have shouted from the rooftops about Londinium Guatemala finca el Triangulo Decaf beans which for me are the finest decaf ever to pass my lips and which don't go off within 10 days of opening like most others. With these the days of metallic amd/or fishy decaf are gone, replaced with a full bodied complex flavoured decaf that stays in excellent condition for a very long time.

However, today, I tasted a bean from Londinium like nothing else I have ever tasted - EVER.

Astonishingly it was made by my own (cack) hands, on my Fracino, ground through my Brasilia RR55OD. Even more astonishingly, without any guidance other than educated guesswork the very first shot (and the second swiftly soon after) were just fabulous, so with refinement I can only imagine what treats lie ahead - the point here is that these also seem to be very forgiving beans i.e. not fussy and hard to get good results out of.

And the bean in question.........

Rwanda Kinunu 100% red bourbon.

Now some may recall the DSOL Rwanda offering. Let me say that as good as that was, this is totally and utterly different and the similarity begins and ends with the word 'Rwanda'.

This coffee is full bodied, rich and juicy with a full thick crema. No acidity at all, very gentle yet bold flavour that starts in dark chocolate and ends I a flavour that I can only describe as the sweetest of sweet blood orange jam (jam though - not marmalade) that lingers on the taste buds and in the mind like nothing else I have ever known. There is no orange peel flavour, no sharp or tangy edges and no acidity. Just smooth smooth, sweet nectar. Its so mind blowing that even now, four hours later I can instantly imagine the highly distinctive and memorable flavour as if it were being sipped right now, which isn't something I can actually say about any other bean I've bought.

Put quite simply - it was exquisite. I used my usual 16g in a 15g VST basket at the same grind as Rave's Java Jampit, producing a 2oz double in 28 seconds flat. As I say this was spot on first time. Bearing in mind this was only 6 days after the roast date (the guidance is 7 days) and that I haven't tried adjusting the dose or grind yet, I'm confident of even further fine tuning. Having said that if every shot I ever pull is done the same way and the same result I will forever be a very happy man.

Yes, Londinium beans are a little more expensive than others but its worth every single extra penny and then some.

I'm hoping to get my hands on a bag or four of the Bolivian soon also and will report back on that as well as updating on the Rwanda.

So folks its over to you to discuss here your Londinium experiences.................


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ha ha , having only recently put my observations of this same been on the what's in my mug this morning thread, I have to concur, reiss as a roaster just seems to be getting better and better, whether it is to do with his fascination and love of levers or not is immaterial.

The first thing that hit my mouth mouth was that distinct dark chocolate, yet not bitter as dark chocolate, sweet, then bam oranges but as you said deep dark orange sweetness, not sharp, not tort but juicy and a lingering after taste that made me make a second one.

17 grams in 24 grams out in 27 seconds fairly short as a full espresso goes but a shot to savour.....


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## Heligan (Aug 24, 2013)

My first order of Londinium beans should be here later today. I've gone for the decaf, the Rwanda Kinunu and the Brazil Fazenda Passeio. Looking forward to them.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Funny, I just opened a bag of that Rwanda. Roasted 7th, opened today (14th). 15.8g dose in the L1, it fluffed up a LOT in the grinder giving me quite a full basket (just at the level line in the stock L1 basket once tamped).

I didn't quite get it though. Slightly dark, slightly murky. Chocolate with a long lasting after taste. The puck was a little wet and I felt the grinds were a little bit too big, but the extraction was a little long (~38 secs) so I don't want to grind finer just yet - hoping it will settle down a bit.

For me personally I find Londinium still to be a bit too dark for my tastes, although the offering is much lighter than the first beans I ever got from them. I also agree that Reiss has real dedication to what he does, and offers some excellent beans.

The 'Brazil, Fazenda Passeio, yellow icatu, natural' certainly makes it to my top 10 coffees of 2013.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

aaronb said:


> Funny, I just opened a bag of that Rwanda. Roasted 7th, opened today (14th). 15.8g dose in the L1, it fluffed up a LOT in the grinder giving me quite a full basket (just at the level line in the stock L1 basket once tamped).
> 
> I didn't quite get it though. Slightly dark, slightly murky. Chocolate with a long lasting after taste. The puck was a little wet and I felt the grinds were a little bit too big, but the extraction was a little long (~38 secs) so I don't want to grind finer just yet - hoping it will settle down a bit.
> 
> ...


Hi been using this . Mines rested 12 days . Was dosing 16.5 g in the stock basket, 5 second pre infusion . Pulled Til it blonded 23-27 . The longer is pre infuse the shorter the extraction time.

Perhaps it the rest time , perhaps the increased dose compared to yourself , but the orange really came through as espresso at the end, along with the dark chocolate . Found the flavours more separate than I sense your getting currently .

Try resting little longer and upping the dose . See how you get on.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Aaron this doesn't sound to me like a test time issue at all, in fact it sounds like you are over extracting and burning it which will result in that murky non descript shot. Go a notch or two more coarse and aim for a double shot in 26-28 seconds at most. 38 seconds is way too slow


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> Aaron this doesn't sound to me like a test time issue at all, in fact it sounds like you are over extracting and burning it which will result in that murky non descript shot. Go a notch or two more coarse and aim for a double shot in 26-28 seconds at most. 38 seconds is way too slow


agree Cam , just though as we had the same machines l1 seeing if the " recipe " could be replicated to obtain the same taste . But 38 seconds is too long , and as should have put to get the 23-27 second shot , coarsen the grind . I haven't been finding the pucks that wet .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Same here on grind coarseness, I know some of the Londinium beans have required really tight grind but not so with this one.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I've just changed the parameters slightly by grinding finer and timing 27 seconds from the first drops appearing out the bottom of the pf ending up with a ristretto double - wowee!!

I always have one sugar but this was so lush ans sweet no sugar was needed - and those sweet oranges bursting at the end again


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Aaron how are you getting on with the Rwanda ?

Can any of you guys that have tried the Brazil fazenda passeio give me a review please? I'm considering trying that out

I have some Bolivian roasted last Wednesday but still need to wait 4 more days to try it. The wait is doing my head in!


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I have gone coarser than I usually do to get a ~27 sec shot. I still get a bit of chocolate, and it is sweet. Still wet pucks though. Massive mouthfeel and aftertaste. For me, I still think it's too dark. Personal taste though, I usually go for light roasts.

Brazil Fazenda Passeio is phenomenal. One of my top 10 coffee's from last year. Stars off with milk chocolate and gives way to boozy figs and nuts. Very easy to work with and get good shots. I do REALLY like naturals though.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I know Reiss has decreased the temp on the roast now by 7 degrees so maybe the next batch will be more to your taste. If you have some you want to move on then pm me I have load of stuff you might like by way of a swap

What is your dose in the basket and what size basket?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Got a couple more shots of the DSOL in the hopper , then I'm moving on to the Columbian that is now at peek rest.

Can't wait !


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

CamV6 said:


> I know Reiss has decreased the temp on the roast now by 7 degrees so maybe the next batch will be more to your taste. If you have some you want to move on then pm me I have load of stuff you might like by way of a swap
> 
> What is your dose in the basket and what size basket?


15.8g dose, standard Londinium double basket.

I only had one bag and it's almost gone but thanks for the offer!

I do enjoy trying different things every now and again, and I can really see why people would like this. I suspect it works very well in milk too, but I'm a strictly black coffee drinker.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Got a couple more shots of the DSOL in the hopper , then I'm moving on to the Columbian that is now at peek rest.
> 
> Can't wait !


Would love to read your tasting of that once you get onto it

Aaron I keep meaning try it in milk but like you I'm not a lover of milk drinks although I do enjoy the odd macchiato and occasional cap. Ever time I make a shot of the Rwandan with intent to put milk it always just seems such a waste to put milk in though!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> Would love to read your tasting of that once you get onto it
> 
> Aaron I keep meaning try it in milk but like you I'm not a lover of milk drinks although I do enjoy the odd macchiato and occasional cap. Ever time I make a shot of the Rwandan with intent to put milk it always just seems such a waste to put milk in though!


Have you tried the Bolivian yet ? Rwandan is good in milk too , i get the hint of orange coming through each time . Lovely


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Sadly I haven't had the Bolivian yet. Was roasted on 15th so have to wait until next Wednesday

Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhh I can't bear the waiting!!!!!


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Ok, I need to order some beans and the only time I've tried Londinium was at the meet up in Northampton last year. Coffeechap made me a mid-point ristretto and it was really tasty.

From reading the thread thus far I'm thinking about picking up some of the Rwandan as it sounds like a winner but I'd be interested in hearing what you guys deem to be the cream of the crop as a possible second option.

Cheers

Spence


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bolivian , Bolivian , Bolivian . Massive mouthfeel, chocolate figs rich tasting nom nom nomness


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Bolivian , Bolivian , Bolivian . Massive mouthfeel, chocolate figs rich tasting nom nom nomness


Sounds awesome Boots, I'll have to give it a go at some point.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Have I mentioned how good the Rwandan is?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

CamV6 said:


> Have I mentioned how good the Rwandan is?


I think you may have in passing...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> Have I mentioned how good the Rwandan is?


17g in 17 out in 27 seconds this morning . Small amount of milk. Dark contrast in colour , sweet taste int he cup , milk choc with a hint of the orange again. Stonking , this works as espresso as flat white for me . Will defo be going back again for this at some point . Prefer to the Columbian now .


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Anyone else noticed that a 4-bag a month subscription works out cheaper (per bag) than a 5-bag one? And 6-bags is cheaper per bag than 10 bags?

curious


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

Are there any london cafés that use londinium?


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm off to see reiss this coming weekend to pickup some beans. If anyone wants to save on shipping and can pick up from ha7/nw8/e14 happy to oblige.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

RoloD said:


> Anyone else noticed that a 4-bag a month subscription works out cheaper (per bag) than a 5-bag one? And 6-bags is cheaper per bag than 10 bags?
> 
> curious


Inceased postage costs due to exceeding the different weight thresholds?


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

I reckon that Londinium beans are the best that I have yet tasted.

I would accept that I have not been grinding fresh beans, or using a decent espresso machine for as long as many others on here... But there is something very special about Reiss's beans...

Last year I cast the net far and wide and I tasted some good blends, some tasty, some not so tasty, but I keep returning to those bronze bags.

Yesterday, I opened a bag of his "Colombia finca la Palma, extended fermentation"...

This stuff is amazing, it sticks to the ribs with its beautiful gloopiness...

Not that eloquent, I know...

I do not have the ability to reference raspberries or fine crafted leather and whatnot...









So "gloopiness" will have to suffice. Mine was roasted on 23rd January, so it is just about ready...

Londinium L1, HG-One, Londinium beans... Espresso heaven!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know about the inconsistency regarding the prices... Depending on experience, I order a minimum of 1.25kg (5 bags), and if I get on really well with a bean, take the next logical step up and order 5kg (5 big bags), at those price points, both seem to be reasonably competitive on price...

Worth every penny!


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Geordie Boy said:


> Inceased postage costs due to exceeding the different weight thresholds?


No, postage is fixed rate and extra.

But can I add to the previous comments - I have yet to be dissapointed by Londinium beans. They are not the cheapest but, if you are an espresso drinker, the are definitely the best. Never over-roasted but never acidic. Unfortunately I get through so much coffee I can't afford them every month and resort to Rave to fill the gap.


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

I to have bean impressed with Londinium and it's only the de cafe that I've tried, anyone recommend what I can try of theirs next ?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Southpaw said:


> Are there any london cafés that use londinium?


Scooter Cafe in Waterloo.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

Soll said:


> I to have bean impressed with Londinium and it's only the de cafe that I've tried, anyone recommend what I can try of theirs next ?


See my post above Soll... "Colombia finca la Palma, extended fermentation", luvverly.


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Have done mate thanks


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Southpaw said:


> Are there any london cafés that use londinium?


There are a few I think, email Reiss or ask on the Londinium forum and I'm sure he will happily tell you where.

Think there are a few LII's and a few L1's in cafes in London too.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Soll said:


> Have done mate thanks


The Rwandan is stonking toooo.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Guys I am part way through a bag of the Guatemalan and it's special ...... I mean really special. Get on it before it runs out!


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

What's the recommended rest duration on Londinium beans?


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Says eight days on the bag. DB


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Walter Sobchak said:


> What's the recommended rest duration on Londinium beans?


Depends on the beans. Some are 7 or 8 days, some are 14.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

RoloD said:


> Depends on the beans. Some are 7 or 8 days, some are 14.


Any idea what it is on the Rwanda? Just trying to work out when to place my order. Fancy trying the Rwanda and the decaf.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I waited 12 days for mine to rest . Rwandan that is .


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> I waited 12 days for mine to rest . Rwandan that is .


Cheers, I best get my order in then!


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

The Rwandan needs 7 days according to the packet.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

drude said:


> The Rwandan needs 7 days according to the packet.


Yep I waited 12 .........







. Probably my fault I can't read Drude ....


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Loving the Rwandan. Just about to finish off my last bag.


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

I'm just about to start back on the Rwandan, after a couple of bags of Costa Rican from Londinium. It's great stuff.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

drude said:


> I'm just about to start back on the Rwandan, after a couple of bags of Costa Rican from Londinium. It's great stuff.


Had the Bolivian yet ?


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

Just placed an order and 5 bags works out at nearly £8 each - I'm sure it was more reasonable last time I ordered.


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Had the Bolivian yet ?


No - I was hoping some would come in my last subscription order. I might just order a kilo of that next month as it sounds like a great bean.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Just picked up some beans, should keep me going a while. Reiss very kindly stayed late to get them roasted for me! Excellent customer service...


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> Had the Bolivian yet ?


The Bolivian is GREAT. Classic Londinium - rich dark chocolate with a touch of walnut (or could be hazelnut) but no earthiness. And very forgiving -works at both espresso and ristretto ratios - although it's taken my a whole pack to get the grind/dose about right every short has tasted good.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

RoloD said:


> The Bolivian is GREAT. Classic Londinium - rich dark chocolate with a touch of walnut (or could be hazelnut) but no earthiness. And very forgiving -works at both espresso and ristretto ratios - although it's taken my a whole pack to get the grind/dose about right every short has tasted good.


What dose / ratio did you settle on in the end


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> What dose / ratio did you settle on in the end


Still playing, but 18g in (more than I normally dose) and 18g out was close to a religious experience.


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

The Londinium decaf I ordered was ready to go when it was delivered, very impressed as a flat white, very tasty.

First go with the Rwandan this morning after 7 days rest, 18.2g to 29g in 22 seconds. Wasn't that impressed tbh with my first go as a 7oz flat white, didn't really cut through the milk. Will try it with less milk later.


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Walter Sobchak said:


> The Londinium decaf I ordered was ready to go when it was delivered, very impressed as a flat white, very tasty.
> 
> First go with the Rwandan this morning after 7 days rest, 18.2g to 29g in 22 seconds. Wasn't that impressed tbh with my first go as a 7oz flat white, didn't really cut through the milk. Will try it with less milk later.


Their De cafe is excellent I have to say, it's a nice evening coffee without the worry of keeping you up at night but with all the coffee flavour ! I actually give it to my kids with lashings of milk, they love it!


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Soll said:


> Their De cafe is excellent I have to say, it's a nice evening coffee without the worry of keeping you up at night but with all the coffee flavour ! I actually give it to my kids with lashings of milk, they love it!


Definitely, even the missus commented how nice it was.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Working my way thru a kg of the decaff at the moment. It's being depleted quickly!


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Have had consistently good shots with the Bolivian at various ratios. Very rich and dark. Cant wait to try the Rwandan


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Just finished 3 bags of the Bolivian. Amazing stuff.

On to the Kenyan now, not quite as tasty to my palate but still boody lovely!

I whined to Reiss that I couldn't order 3 bags without paying over a tenner for the third bag so he sent me the 3rd bag for free and chucked the Kenyan in for good measure!! Bloody good sport that chap!










If anyone's not tried Londinium beans yet, do yourselves a favour and order some today!!


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Just finished 3 bags of the Bolivian. Amazing stuff.
> 
> On to the Kenyan now, not quite as tasty to my palate but still boody lovely!
> 
> ...


Just ordered 6 bags of the Bolivian. Only tried Londinium once before and wasn't my favourite but was intrigued to see they'd pulled the roast back a bit.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Nimble Motionists said:


> Just ordered 6 bags of the Bolivian. Only tried Londinium once before and wasn't my favourite but was intrigued to see they'd pulled the roast back a bit.


You won't be disappointed...


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## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Just tried the Bolivian, 18g in, 28g out in 25secs, which made a magnificent flat white!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Really enjoying Londinium Rwanda Red Bourbon.

I seem to be getting the best results from longer extractions.

This is 18g in 35g out, in 32 secs. The longer extraction seem to have a much brighter and wider range if flavours, orange being the dominant one. It still has great mouth feel, very silky.

The one think I have noticed is that I seem to get more spurts from the naked PF. Is it just me?


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Really enjoying Londinium Rwanda Red Bourbon.
> 
> I seem to be getting the best results from longer extractions.
> 
> ...


Always seem to get a lot of spritzing with londinium beans, no idea why, but it is consistent.


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## vikingboy (Mar 11, 2013)

no spritizing here with londinium beans - on either k10f, ek43 or vario. Wonder if the lighter roasts are likely to spritz given grinder performance etc? Interesting....


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

vikingboy said:


> no spritizing here with londinium beans - on either k10f, ek43 or vario. Wonder if the lighter roasts are likely to spritz given grinder performance etc? Interesting....


I had thought it was a Mignon thing, but I'm using a SJ now. I don't really have it with any other beans. It doesn't seem to effect the taste (which is superb).

On the shots that were taking 45 secs it wasn't happening. I've tended to tamp lighter with the SJ after a nutation. Maybe I should try tamping harder and see if it makes a difference.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Rwanda was tasting lovely today at coffee fest, nicest coffee of the day!


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

It it really good, I had some last year as part of the DSOL and really enjoyed it.

It seems to have got better, I've unusually nailed a bag within 2 days


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

its not the beans its the VST baskets


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## vikingboy (Mar 11, 2013)

interesting...why would the VST basket promote spritzing, more like the finer grind required for the VST to extract efficiently pushing grinders beyond comfort zone perhaps? I never say spritzing with any londinium beans on any of my grinders with standard, VST or IMS baskets.

Are you grinding the same grind for VST and other (IMS?) Cam?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I also never had any spritzing with my RR55 and VST baskets last time I had the Londinium Rwandan, not opened the current lot yet and no naked pf for the Sage until later this week anyway so may wait until then, but not expecting any issues with my current gear.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

No spritzing on the Vario with stock Londinium baskets for me either.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

vikingboy said:


> interesting...why would the VST basket promote spritzing, more like the finer grind required for the VST to extract efficiently pushing grinders beyond comfort zone perhaps? I never say spritzing with any londinium beans on any of my grinders with standard, VST or IMS baskets.
> 
> Are you grinding the same grind for VST and other (IMS?) Cam?


No Issues with going finer on the SJ. The first few attempt with the bean were almost choking it. Co-incidently I pulled a 45 sec shot which tasted great but didn't produce any spritzing.


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## vikingboy (Mar 11, 2013)

Was SJ new when you got it, wonder if this is a symptom of worn burrs.....?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

vikingboy said:


> Was SJ new when you got it, wonder if this is a symptom of worn burrs.....?


SJ was from a forum member, it had new Mazzer burs fitted to it about 12 months ago, so I wouldn't have though so. I had same issue with a new Mignon. I remember Gangstar mentioning the same problem and us having almost identical set ups

I was wondering if it was a case of either grinding finer and tamping lighter or going coarser and tamping harder or if its another flaw of my technique. I seem to get a bit of a spiral pour with it too (if that makes any sense)

I dont have the same issue with any beans, I'm getting great tasting shot though. I think it my favourite bean this year


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## vikingboy (Mar 11, 2013)

it could just be technique, worth trying a bit of a WDT before tamping and see if that helps.

So long as it tastes ok then at least its drinkable whilst you are trying to solve your spritzing.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Clive if it tastes good then don't worry about the time it takes as long as you are reaching your target weight, I do seem to remember having to grind fairly fine on the RR55 for the DSOL Londinium beans, but shouldn't be any need for WDT using your SJ. I'd guess you're single dosing with it? if so you usually need to have the grind set finer than you would with beans in the hopper anyway.

Don't overthink it, a touch of gentle nutation and then a solid straight down tamp and you should be fine, as your doser should be breaking up any clumps and distributing ok into your basket.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Clive if it tastes good then don't worry about the time it takes as long as you are reaching your target weight, I do seem to remember having to grind fairly fine on the RR55 for the DSOL Londinium beans, but shouldn't be any need for WDT using your SJ. I'd guess you're single dosing with it? if so you usually need to have the grind set finer than you would with beans in the hopper anyway.
> 
> Don't overthink it, a touch of gentle nutation and then a solid straight down tamp and you should be fine, as your doser should be breaking up any clumps and distributing ok into your basket.


Cheers Charlie, I'm a veteran of WDT having had a Mignon for nearly a year









I've been doing a light nutate with the SJ, I might just start tamping straight down and see how I get on.

Thanks to the help of Gary D the doser puts it into a nice little mound.

Its just one of these weird things that happens in my world of coffee, i'll leave it as a mystery


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry I didn't explain myself too well. I didn't mean the VST is responsible for sprit zing jut that I find the IMS basket I now use to be far more forgiving and less prone to spritzing


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Spritzing most likely due to poor distribution and clumping. Nutating can help hugely with this.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

gman147 said:


> Spritzing most likely due to poor distribution and clumping. Nutating can help hugely with this.


I don't get clumping with the SJ and I've been nutating of late.

However today's shot, no nutation and I tamped straight down. Absolutely no spritzing, the only addition was a tap on the counter with the PF.

Weird....I don't get it with any other beans. Bloody lovely tasting though.


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

Any tips for the Bolivian? Finding it a bit bland - have tried 15g into 15g in 30 secs and 15g into 30g in 30 secs. Aiming for something in between next.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Updose perhaps ?

On what way bland ( not sweet enough or not strong enough or what do you think is lacking ? ) and in what drink - As espresso ?


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

I've found the Bolivian to be one of the harder beans to get good results from, certainly compared to the Rwandan and Brazilian. I could not get a decent shot with my normal parameters (17g in, 24 out in 27 seconds) but found switching to 18 in helped. Even dropping back to 17.5 led to disappointment.

So, try increasing your dose, but if you hit any great combos I'd be interested to hear as I have a fair few of these beans left


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Updose perhaps ?
> 
> On what way bland ( not sweet enough or not strong enough or what do you think is lacking ? ) and in what drink - As espresso ?


Sorry 'bland' was way too vague!

Being kind I'd describe this as digestive biscuit... being less kind bitter-central. Not getting any of the sweetness or chocolate I got from the Extract Original I was using before this. Tasting notes mention chocolate, molasses and stone fruit. Not getting any of that - just biscuity - definitely nothing fruity. Upped my dose this eve - will try pushing a little further - have got 1.5 Kg to work through so may even experiment with a triple basket.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ok cool

I wouldn't say its a chocolatey as the Extract ( which i like too ) , which i personally got more milk chocolate notes from .

Play with the dose , i pulled it a little longer extraction from a 18g dose into say 32-34 and it got a bit sweeter for me.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Have used up all my Bolivian and now onto the Rwandan!!

mmmmm probably managed to produce my best shot 'ever' (not saying much really!!) to suit my taste buds anyway! Really lovely dark and chocolaty! (20g in 32g out in 35sec)

The funny thing is with these beans my pours have looked very ropey and consistently so almost back to gaggia & MC2 days







(using bpf) strange cone and the puck seems prone to channeling in the center but obviously taste is king and loved it my play with my technique on these beans though just to see if I can get a better looking pour that will then probably taste shite


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm really liking the Rwandan but whatever I do the Crema is very very bubbly, almost as though they haven't degassed enough, I can't find the roast date as I chucked the bag away, but it's from the same batch that Bootsy ordered so should have had plenty of rest by now.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Charliej said:


> I'm really liking the Rwandan but whatever I do the Crema is very very bubbly, almost as though they haven't degassed enough, I can't find the roast date as I chucked the bag away, but it's from the same batch that Bootsy ordered so should have had plenty of rest by now.


They recommend quite a long rest time something like 12 or 18 days (can't remember which), I've just finished up a bag that was in this area and I didn't have any problems with bubbly crema. I was dosing 20g in a 20g VST, I had the occasional spritz but on the whole they were very well behaved.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Charliej said:


> I'm really liking the Rwandan but whatever I do the Crema is very very bubbly, almost as though they haven't degassed enough, I can't find the roast date as I chucked the bag away, but it's from the same batch that Bootsy ordered so should have had plenty of rest by now.


It's well past it's rest date


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm dosing 20g in the IMS 16/20g basket which is pretty well behaved, still not got my naked pf to check exactly what's going on. Whatever I try with the Sage the crema has loads of bubbles, the grind level is definitely right, I've tried different combinations of preinfusion etc, no preinfusion and run the whole shot at 80% pressure, varied tamping style and the shots taste great just got lot's of bubbles.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Charliej said:


> I'm really liking the Rwandan but whatever I do the Crema is very very bubbly, almost as though they haven't degassed enough, I can't find the roast date as I chucked the bag away, but it's from the same batch that Bootsy ordered so should have had plenty of rest by now.


I had the intermittent spritzer issue with them but I have to say they are an awesome bean taste wise. Definitely one of my favourites of the last 6 months.


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

drude said:


> I've found the Bolivian to be one of the harder beans to get good results from, certainly compared to the Rwandan and Brazilian. I could not get a decent shot with my normal parameters (17g in, 24 out in 27 seconds) but found switching to 18 in helped. Even dropping back to 17.5 led to disappointment.
> 
> So, try increasing your dose, but if you hit any great combos I'd be interested to hear as I have a fair few of these beans left


Possibly a bit late now but definitely seeing some improvement with these. Upping the dose helped and increasing the output brought out more sweetness. Just finished my best cup so far:

15.8g in 33g out in 30 secs - first drops hit at 8 secs and i shut the pump off at 24 secs (approx the last 8g of the shot)

Have tried pushing up to 16.5g but seems to be too much for the basket (don't have a bigger VST - may try a stock triple I have lying around somewhere). Next plan is to play with the temperature.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I had the intermittent spritzer issue with them but I have to say they are an awesome bean taste wise. Definitely one of my favourites of the last 6 months.


Have you tried an IMS basket?


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