# 15g VST Basket - Experiences



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Hi, I have read that the 15g VST basket is quite unforgiving, but not so much about why.

I've used one for a long time now and have had mixed results, but it's sometimes hard to tell what the cause is.

What are your experiences?

Is an 18g better, and if so, how?

Are IMS 15g baskets better?

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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Think they're just a bit more particular about good prep.@MildredM seems to get good results with one.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

A lesser dose equals less resistance means you need a finer grind.

Allied to a basket with more holes means you prep needs to be bang on to avoid channeling.

If your machine has no pre infusion as and is straight 9 bar again This will exacerbate all of the above.

Does inconsistent refer to cup quality or visual clues from a naked pf.

Ims make be an easy basket to prep but never been a fan of them as I'm not convinced by the wide dose tolerances they recommend.


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## Les996 (Jan 8, 2019)

I started using VST ridgeless a month or so ago. My first was an 18g and worked very well but a bit high on yield for my taste.

Did a bit of research on the 15g as closer to my ideal 30g out.

I found I had to grind finer and run at 6bar with 2bar pre-infusion to get the best results.

As long as your preparation is good, the 15g is great - the only one I use now ?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

richwade80 said:


> Hi, I have read that the 15g VST basket is quite unforgiving, but not so much about why.
> 
> I've used one for a long time now and have had mixed results, but it's sometimes hard to tell what the cause is.
> 
> ...


 Something all niche owners should have a go at, you need to make sure you really mix up the grounds from the niche and prep the basket really well, it's the most unforgiving basket out there


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Something all niche owners should have a go at, you need to make sure you really mix up the grounds from the niche and prep the basket really well, it's the most unforgiving basket out there


Do this on every single dosing grinder with a vertical feed, especially conics.

T.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I have a few issues which might be basket related.

1. Pinholes, except that mostly they tend to look like small knife holes. Like sticking the pointy end of a sharp knife in the puck. It doesn't really look like a pinhole and I wonder if this is caused either when the shot is stopped or just when it's removed from the group. I wonder if the puck gets sucked up at the end and this tiny flap gets generated when removed?

2. Crema distribution. Sometimes the shot seems to speed up reasonably and the crema seams to coalesce more like an oil and not really like a foam. It can look ok but when pouring milk into it, it tends to stick together and ruin the pour completely. Some beans don't do this anywhere near so much and age of beans makes some difference too. Could the basket be a cause as well.

I appreciate you'll want pictures but it will have to wait.

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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

What grinder are you using?

T.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I have a few issues which might be basket related.
> 
> 1. Pinholes, except that mostly they tend to look like small knife holes. Like sticking the pointy end of a sharp knife in the puck. It doesn't really look like a pinhole and I wonder if this is caused either when the shot is stopped or just when it's removed from the group. I wonder if the puck gets sucked up at the end and this tiny flap gets generated when removed?
> 
> ...


 Post puck analysis won't tell you much.

Nothing like a naked pf does.

How does the drink taste as opposed to the visual clues, If it's good then i would not stress.

Crema is different dependent on bean type, roast, level and freshness and personally I wouldn't worry about this as a visual clue or worry that it effects your latte art. I wouldn't put this down to your bean.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

I use a niche (which really sounds predictable doesn't it). I do like it though for where I am right now.

I do use the naked pf all the time. A lot of the time it does look good. Sometimes I notice localised darker patches on the underside of the basket where the pour has been uneven in some way. This tends to coincide with uneven crema etc.

Taste wise can be hit and miss sometimes. It's always good, but sometimes you just nail it and can't always do it at. It's not always easy to be consistent on everything. I'm running an HX which adds other variables too of course.

While I'm at it. I use Pact beans and also the roastery. I have heard Pact aren't amazing compared to some but no reason why. I do buy from specialist cafes every so often and do notice better flavours with their beans.

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I use a niche (which really sounds predictable doesn't it). I do like it though for where I am right now.
> 
> I do use the naked pf all the time. A lot of the time it does look good. Sometimes I notice localised darker patches on the underside of the basket where the pour has been uneven in some way. This tends to coincide with uneven crema etc.
> 
> ...


 Not a fan of pact tbh, quality of roasting and unsure of the coffee, what is the house blend for instance.

As you say yourself cup quality is what's important and you can taste a diffence between them and the cafes.

Perhaps give another sub a go like hasbean


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

richwade80 said:


> I use a niche (which really sounds predictable doesn't it). I do like it though for where I am right now.
> 
> I do use the naked pf all the time. A lot of the time it does look good. Sometimes I notice localised darker patches on the underside of the basket where the pour has been uneven in some way. This tends to coincide with uneven crema etc.
> 
> ...


Are you grinding straight into the basket or into a container first to premix the grounds? If straight into basket try grinding into a cup, the whisking the grinds with a small whisk and then dump that into the basket, level, tamp and pull a shot.

T.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

dsc said:


> Are you grinding straight into the basket or into a container first to premix the grounds? If straight into basket try grinding into a cup, the whisking the grinds with a small whisk and then dump that into the basket, level, tamp and pull a shot.
> 
> T.


Sorry@dsc,

Not sure I'm getting updates on everything I follow on Tapatalk...

I grind into the cup, then used to transfer to PF, tap level, level tool and tamp... sigh. It doesn't generally work for many roasts from a range of suppliers.

The resulting puck often has problems. Usually pinholes, or even larger gouges. I also notice the puck comes out in chunks with parts sticking in the basket. I'm assuming this is where parts are not getting extracted evenly. You can also tell on the bottom of the basket where you might get what looks like caramel in spots but not evenly.

In essence I'm now concentrating on my prep. I'm currently trying to mix the grounds in the cup, and nutating instead of levelling tool. I've also up dosed to 16g to help.

It's not perfect yet. I could see why people get better results from 18g. I particularly notice problems when the beam density is high so the puck is thinner.

Rant over.

I bet a lever would help lower the pressure ramp...

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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

@richwade80 make sure you mix / whisk the grinds in the cup very well before transfering into the basket. Often when single dosing the grinds are not even within a dose, you get finer grinds on the bottom and coarser at the top, so you have to mix it all up nicely to make sure it's all even.

T.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'm curious about this particular 15g basket maybe some one could post a photo of it like this one to get an idea of it's scale. I suspect it's similar.









The VST is no use to me as it would hold about 17g on a Sage DB. The above holds 14g and I use it for most of the shots I pull usually with 13,6g in it. Few real problems grinding with Niche via the grinds can very probably down to how I handle the grinds.

John

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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

VST 15 g in details as good as the others from VST


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

@richwade80 I sometimes use the 15 g VST basket. I dose at 14 grams (fine grind & preinfusion) and it performs well.

I would agree with previous comments about a thorough stirring in your grinds cup (to mix the particle sizes), then careful levelling & a light-ish tamp.Do you tamp quite firmly? You might try a lighter tamp, to see if that is a factor.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I can't get a decent shot of the perforations - reflections are causing grief but if people want to put it down to hole variations they can. Maybe I should have put something grey behind it, Maybe there is some variation but that should make things worse.









My grinds prep is the same as the person who has used it most. Not shown that clearly in his videos but is in a Niche review on youtube by hoffmann. My Niche burrs are pretty well run in now. Stirring grinds came about from grinders that produce firm clumps. It initially came into Niche to clear static but in practice it doesn't produce enough to worry about. What I have found is that stirring usually creates clumps that are worse than any that were there. When I look at the grinds in the can and gently shake it side to side to level the grinds I see any I have at least part break up. They aren't worth worrying about. If I stir with anything it just creates clumps that are a lot firmer. Then I rapidly invert to get the grinds into the filter basket and shake moderately side to side to level them. It takes a bit of practice as the invert may leave a lop sided load in any direction. I get around that by placing the can on the tamping mat, place the portafilter on top and carefully line it up so that the slope is always left to right after the invert and the shake more or less levels it. I then use a 2 slope distribution tool on it. They don't so shortly I may skip that as I should be able to tamp level by now. Also tried a 3 wing one. Net effect was just about all shots starting with 3 distinct flows that lasted longer than the 2 or 1 that I get with the other tool.

So if people aren't forming clumps when the stir fine. Trouble is I haven't found a bean so far where they don't.

I'm also getting a consistent taste. Niche has been interesting in that respect. Some wilder ways of getting the grinds into the basket can produce some rather high yields.

LOL My fixed 30sec shots are producing more weight out variation than I mentioned last time. 39.2g to 41.6 so far. I had one flier where it went to 50g. I'm putting that down to an off forum conversation about conditioning beans so thought I would try using them earlier. This shot came out right towards the end of a can of beans. A grinder adjustment fixed it also for the next can of the same roast batch. This is very probably down to the beans I am using. I have used some beans within 2 days of roasting and do wonder if resting is actually of any use at all with a number of them.

Next step for me, increase tamping pressure. I currently use 15kg. i'd rather there was no residue left when I knock the grinds out. Very little is left anyway. In fact for the next shot I could just leave it there.

John

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## seanmurgatroyd (Dec 14, 2019)

I switched to 15g VST baskets maybe a year ago at work and haven't looked back, at reduced pressure (5ish bar) I've had no different an experience than any other basket size, maybe puck prep is now slightly more important but marginally so.
Regarding IMS baskets I'd take Michael Cameron's word for it and just use the VSTs, no one has done more research into baskets than Vince Fedele.


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## Michael87 (Sep 20, 2019)

I've just got one of these (15g vst) and am finding it trickier. But I much prefer the smaller amount of coffee.

Any other tips for a gaggia classic with no preinfusion?

I'm stirring lots and trying to level without compressing anything, but still am not quite getting the flavour that I get from the 20g vst


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## Dave double bean (Mar 31, 2020)

Michael87 said:


> I've just got one of these (15g vst) and am finding it trickier. But I much prefer the smaller amount of coffee.
> Any other tips for a gaggia classic with no preinfusion?
> I'm stirring lots and trying to level without compressing anything, but still am not quite getting the flavour that I get from the 20g vst


That might suggest you are extracting more with the 20g, try going a notch finer with the 15g. I'm using a 15g and prefer it to my 18, but takes more effort go get extraction right

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