# Looking at buying a Synchronika...



## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Hi all,

I'm looking at buying a Synchronika very soon. I've weighed up the alternatives and I keep coming back to this ECM.

This will be my first e61 so I have a few questions...

How accurate is the PID readout compared to what you're actually getting out of the group head?

I know you can only do a line Pre-infusion when plumbed in. I live in a hard water area and at the moment plumbing in is not really an option so I was wondering as I've read different things on the internet regarding e61 group heads, when you pull the lever to activate the pull, does the pressure go straight to 9bar etc? Because some say it's @ 4 bar for a couple of seconds then ramps up to 9 bar?

What's the steam power like with the supplied 2 hole steam tip? I've read about the steam power suffering problems on some, this may of been sorted now with the upgraded PID they now come with though?

I've also read that you can remove the inner liner from the steam wand and in doing so increases the steam power? This combined with a 4 hole steam tip greatly increases the steaming power or so I've read?

Any recommended cleaning tools for the machine? What's best to use for the group head?

Thanks in advance for any advice or tips. It's most appreciated


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

A quick response to one query, you will not need to deviate from he two hole steam tip and rest assured it will hold it's own, I have no problem satisfying the demand for coffee's and milky hot chocolate drinks successively when Family visit.

The only thing I see that is gained by removing the steam liner is numerous risks of getting burnt, other than that no advantage.

Where are you based ?, quite open to you paying a visit and trying the Synchronika without any distractions and feelings of obligation.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> A quick response to one query, you will not need to deviate from he two hole steam tip and rest assured it will hold it's own, I have no problem satisfying the demand for coffee's and milky hot chocolate drinks successively when Family visit.
> 
> The only thing I see that is gained by removing the steam liner is numerous risks of getting burnt, other than that no advantage.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jon.

I'm in Berkshire so unfortunately quite a distance from you but I do appreciate the offer and if you was closer I'd happily take you up on it.

What's your user experience been like? Still enjoying it? Any shortcomings?

Anything I should be mindful of?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Thanks Jon.
> 
> I'm in Berkshire so unfortunately quite a distance from you but I do appreciate the offer and if you was closer I'd happily take you up on it.
> 
> ...


Time was not really on our side to break into having our own espresso machine at home at a sane entry level and work our way up.

Nearly always enjoyed cafe and some restaurant coffees (Mostly abroad and I could count on one finger visits to S'Bucks, Costa, Nero type places) so bit the bullet and thought well we need an espresso machine, did a crash course of reading up different machines, one of DaveC's reviews on a QuickMill Verona seemed to be 'The' machine to suit, basic thoughts were that selecting a machine at this level and calibre would in use suggest if the brew was not acceptable it was not something lacking in the equipment and more down to me and the beans, Alex Duetto 1V was another machine.

Found that the Verona was no longer being imported, the Sychronika whilst a contender was just over the budget, but I got a very good deal, hence the story so far.

In the short time of our journey I am now really finding that a single dose grinder would be of great benefit, juggling a bean and brew to satisfy Madams and My palate is very difficult and somewhat limiting, something that a single dose grinder would I reckon alleviate. I know the grinder I would like, for me it ticks the boxes and it's not the Niche, the rare chance of one came up early in our venture and unfortunately at a time when there was other Family priorities.

So briefly there we are, as far as siting the machine, it was really not all that difficult once we had the machine at home, we are blest with scope to cut and paste (Sounds easy) at home and it quickly took shape, there are some mid course corrections I want to do and will get around to them ............ yes eventually.

If you find you are travelling t'up North at all try me, we are not overly far from the motorway network A1 / M62 .

Jon.


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## ForumCat (Jan 6, 2019)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This will be my first e61 so I have a few questions...
> 
> ...


I am a bit of a non expert, but I love my Synchronica

Not sure how accurate the PID is but you can adjust in half a degree increments.

The pressure does seem to get to 9 Bar pretty fast

The two hole tip is fine, it seems that it is was a problem but has been upgraded on more recent machines

I have not dismantled the steam wand. I see no reason to

The machine came with a cleaning brush. I wipe with a paper towel before pulling a shot.

The only issue I have with the machine is that single shot basket gives a bit of a soggy puck with the beans/dose that I am using. This may be my fault as I use a fairly light dose in my espresso. I don't get the issue with the double basket.

Hope that is helpful to you.

As an aside, I think the machine is one of the most aesthetically pleasing machines on the market. The two gauges near the top gives the illusion of a face and this gives it "personality". Sounds daft but I liked this. I call mine "Kevin'.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Time was not really on our side to break into having our own espresso machine at home at a sane entry level and work our way up.
> 
> Nearly always enjoyed cafe and some restaurant coffees (Mostly abroad and I could count on one finger visits to S'Bucks, Costa, Nero type places) so bit the bullet and thought well we need an espresso machine, did a crash course of reading up different machines, one of DaveC's reviews on a QuickMill Verona seemed to be 'The' machine to suit, basic thoughts were that selecting a machine at this level and calibre would in use suggest if the brew was not acceptable it was not something lacking in the equipment and more down to me and the beans, Alex Duetto 1V was another machine.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight, Jon.

I actually won't buy coffee from Starbucks, Costa, Cafe Nero and the like. I refuse to pay their premium for coffee that is no where near the quality I can make at home. I only ever buy coffee out if it's from a speciality coffee shop.

I really like the look and aesthetics of the Synchronika and from what I've read it's a really well thought out and put together machine.

If I'm ever up't north I'll be sure to get in touch.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

ForumCat said:


> I am a bit of a non expert, but I love my Synchronica
> 
> Not sure how accurate the PID is but you can adjust in half a degree increments.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. It was very helpful.

I don't think the soggy puck is anything directly to do with the machine. I get this too sometimes on the machines I've had and it's normally due to the beans or the dose. Some beans I find that with and some I don't. I find it more difficult to use a single shot basket anyway due to the small diameter of the basket area where the puck sits. Always find I have to finger the grinds into the hole









I've never noticed the Synchronika looking like a face but I don't think I can look at it now without seeing it







Brilliant!!


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## ForumCat (Jan 6, 2019)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I've never noticed the Synchronika looking like a face but I don't think I can look at it now without seeing it
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With the portafilter at an angle it looks like Kevin is smoking a cigar. LOL


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

ForumCat said:


> The two hole tip is fine, it seems that it is was a problem but has been upgraded on more recent machines.
> 
> *This was the upgrade early 2018 *


The gauges either side at the top means you can see them when using the machine, baffled me why many manufacturers sited them at the bottom, likewise why some manufacturers initially fitted rotary pump assy's with the pump at the top.

The aesthetics is good with attention to detail and no sharp edges, good clearance for using mugs, the slightly angled down porta filter handle has a good feel when entering it.

FC.. Hope you don't mind using your post to answer certain points ?.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Can anyone give me approximate timings for how long it takes the brew boiler and steam boiler tanks to reach temperature?

Thanks.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Can anyone give me approximate timings for how long it takes the brew boiler and steam boiler tanks to reach temperature?
> 
> Thanks.


Ambient temperature plays a part, 20 minutes is about it.

Water at 94 steam at 128.

Jon............ Now I really must get on







.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Can anyone give me approximate timings for how long it takes the brew boiler and steam boiler tanks to reach temperature?
> 
> Thanks.


You want the group to reach its temperature.

L-R takes less than 5 minutes to reach the temperature in the boiler, but the 8kg group head takes a bit longer...


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Thanks to all for all your valued advice.

I have today placed an order for a Synchronika and it's being delivered tomorrow.

Cant wait!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Nice! The search is over!

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## Cjogo (Aug 11, 2017)

Enjoy the journey. Please be patient there are quite a few variables to manage so don't expect narvana immediately!

The Niche that you have will be ideal!


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Cjogo said:


> Enjoy the journey. Please be patient there are quite a few variables to manage so don't expect narvana immediately!
> 
> The Niche that you have will be ideal!


Thanks. This is my first e61 so I'm not expecting to master it straight away. I know there is a lot to learn but it's all part of the fun right?!


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Thanks to all for all your valued advice.
> 
> I have today placed an order for a Synchronika and it's being delivered tomorrow.
> 
> Cant wait!


Very Happy and Chuft for you, a wise choice, I'm confident you will not be disappointed.

The very quick sale of your existing had nothing to do with it







:time-out:







.

Don't forget to update your profile...

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Very Happy and Chuft for you, a wise choice, I'm confident you will not be disappointed.
> 
> The very quick sale of your existing had nothing to do with it
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, Jon!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Nice choice, just watch the Vesuvius curve ball.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Jony said:


> Nice choice, just watch the Vesuvius curve ball.


Oh I thought long and hard about the Vesuvius I can tell you!

It was basically between the 2 and as pioneering as the Vesuvius was and as great as it is, I much prefer the looks of the ECM and love how they've done the internals of the machine. Hopefully I won't ever need to do much inside there, but if I do, I'll be more confident to do so given the layout.

It was no easy choice I can assure you, Jony!


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Oh I thought long and hard about the Vesuvius I can tell you!
> 
> It was basically between the 2 and as pioneering as the Vesuvius was and as great as it is, I much prefer the looks of the ECM and love how they've done the internals of the machine. Hopefully I won't ever need to do much inside there, but if I do, I'll be more confident to do so given the layout.
> 
> It was no easy choice I can assure you, Jony!


I agree with your sentiments and a scale tipper toward the Synchronika other than that for me would have been the electronics side of it.

As mentioned mine was a crash course in entering the world of espresso (I always thought Espresso was spelt Expresso







)

..... so I stuck to the basics of wanting just a decent coffee and if I felt I needed the additional features, it is part possible with the Synchronika, even now after almost a year and seeing the input and confidence Paolo Cortese instils in the Vesuvius is an added bonus but for a new machine I feel I would have got the Synchronika.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Not sure whether I should post this in another section?

My machine has arrived and it's gorgeous









However I have identified an issue that I may have overlooked lol

The machine is in the kitchen against a wall and the mains water inlet is in the other side of the room so it's not possible to plumb it in at this point. It's on a counter with cabinets above and no room to open the flap to fill the reservoir. Short of spinning the 25kg machine round on the countertop every time I need to refill, are there any other options?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Not sure whether I should post this in another section?
> 
> My machine has arrived and it's gorgeous
> 
> ...


Felt pads on the feet to aid you moving on the counter.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Just to get you away why not remove the pin on the lid (If that helps) and pop something over to prevent anything entering the reservoir.

I'm working through a mountain of mail at the moment.

Jon.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Glad it's looking good! You could consider a flojet to mimic plumbing in, if you're able to hide the bottle and flojet under the counter?


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Just to get you away why not remove the pin on the lid (If that helps) and pop something over to prevent anything entering the reservoir.
> 
> I'm working through a mountain of mail at the moment.
> 
> Jon.


Thanks. Still no way of getting a bottle anywhere close tbh. I've got less than 2" clearance under the cupboard.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> Glad it's looking good! You could consider a flojet to mimic plumbing in, if you're able to hide the bottle and flojet under the counter?


I could hide whatever under the cupboard yes as it's just on a counter and there is nothing underneath.

How big is it and what exactly do I need? So you have a link?

I'm useless at this sort of stuff tbh so appreciate any help.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I could hide whatever under the cupboard yes as it's just on a counter and there is nothing underneath.
> 
> How big is it and what exactly do I need? So you have a link?
> 
> I'm useless at this sort of stuff tbh so appreciate any help.


Are you in Thatcham or am I imagining it?


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> Are you in Thatcham or am I imagining it?










Yes I'm in Thatcham. Why would you be imagining it? lol


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Alternatively you could, space available, put a reservoir in the cupboard above, the pump does not require much 'Head', if you did that you could get a small amount of pre-infusion, mounting a reservoir externally is on my 'todo' list even though I have plenty of clearance above the machine, although not to hand but reasonably easy to get a mains supply to my coffee area, the messing with filters and waste does not appeal, there's still the plastic impact.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Yes I'm in Thatcham. Why would you be imagining it? lol


Haha, well it could be somebody completely different from Thatcham!

Was just thinking that I could show you one sometime, though the timing is a bit off for me with a baby boy due any day.

This was the cheapest I found a flojet - https://www.shopcoffee.co.uk/product/cleaning-filtration/water-filtration/flojet/flojet-plus-bottled-water-pump/

I use it with a 2 group and so I also bought an accumulator because it was running the flojet fairly often and water pressure varied a little whilst it was running. I think that having it with a one group you might be able to just use the flojet.

Coffee hit give a good idea of what's needed - https://www.coffeehit.co.uk/flojet-plus-bottled-water-pump.html and they actually dropped the price a little I think so the extra connectors etc. they provide might make them better value (but I haven't compared precisely)


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Alternatively you could, space available, put a reservoir in the cupboard above, the pump does not require much 'Head', if you did that you could get a small amount of pre-infusion, mounting a reservoir externally is on my 'todo' list even though I have plenty of clearance above the machine, although not to hand but reasonably easy to get a mains supply to my coffee area, the messing with filters and waste does not appeal, there's still the plastic impact.


Thanks for the suggestion but cupboard space above the machine is at an absolute premium! My mrs already says I'm taking over everything and I've got all my coffee nerdyness in that cupboard atm lol

Don't think I'll be allowed anymore cupboard space than I already have.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> Haha, well it could be somebody completely different from Thatcham!
> 
> Was just thinking that I could show you one sometime, though the timing is a bit off for me with a baby boy due any day.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Understand you're busy with everything up in the air with a little one on the way.

How do you rate these Flojet systems? Are they reliable?

I'm planning on connecting my ECM and grinder to a extension lead that will be plugged into the mains via a WiFi switch so I can turn everything on remotely so it's up to temperature for when I arrive home etc. Is it suitable to also connect this Flojet to that extension lead and having it switching on and off etc along with everything else?

Can you control the pressure? ie, Can I set it at the required 2bar for line pressure pre-infusion? (I think it's 2bar that I need for that or is it lower?).

I use Waitrose Lockhills. I assume this is the best water to use if going this route?

Btw, where do you live? I assume you're quite close to me?

Appreciate any help!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> How do you rate these Flojet systems? Are they reliable?


It seems good. I run a pop-up coffee shop, so I move it around a lot and have used it for about 18 months so far. The only problem I had was with the plug wire but I think that was from packing and unpacking (the flex got damaged) the actual flojet seems to have not missed a beat. I bought a cheaper similar thing for my pitcher rinser and that one doesn't seem as robust to me (though touch wood it's working at the moment).



Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I'm planning on connecting my ECM and grinder to a extension lead that will be plugged into the mains via a WiFi switch so I can turn everything on remotely so it's up to temperature for when I arrive home etc. Is it suitable to also connect this Flojet to that extension lead and having it switching on and off etc along with everything else?


I would assume that would work, because it has the kind of switch you could just leave turned on but I'm not massively technical so I can't guarantee (even though I can't think of anything) that you wouldn't run into something in future 



Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Can you control the pressure? ie, Can I set it at the required 2bar for line pressure pre-infusion? (I think it's 2bar that I need for that or is it lower?).


You can't control the pressure from the flojet itself. I'm not clear exactly what pressure it would end up if you just connect to the machine. The only thing I found mentioning pressure, was under specifications "max pressure: 40 PSI (2.8lbs)". I've seen that with installing a machine to connect to water supply it's possible to fit a regulator if the pressure is too much, I assume that could work with this if it seems high to start with but others may know more?



Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I use Waitrose Lockhills. I assume this is the best water to use if going this route?


You could certainly still use that water, the wand is big though so I you'd have to pour from those bottles into a bigger container. I'll double check but from memory it's too big for 5 litre bottles.



Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Btw, where do you live? I assume you're quite close to me?


Bramley, Hampshire - about 30 minutes from Thatcham.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> The only problem I had was with the plug wire but I think that was from packing and unpacking (the flex got damaged) the actual flojet seems to have not missed a beat. .


I thought that jogged my memory, as I recall I enquired as to the plug diameter ?, as there a slight difference with some, I managed at the time to drop onto one that would have been suitable are you fixed up ?.

Deeez Nuuutz

Looks as though you have help close by --- I use a WiFi plug on mine, by the time my eyes are fully open, its all ready to brew.

Jon


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> Haha, well it could be somebody completely different from Thatcham!


Haha! The other one would've been me!


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> I thought that jogged my memory, as I recall I enquired as to the plug diameter ?, as there a slight difference with some, I managed at the time to drop onto one that would have been suitable are you fixed up ?.
> 
> Deeez Nuuutz
> 
> ...


Excellent news! I've got a couple of those Meross WiFi plugs on order.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

I can't find the answer anywhere but can someone tell me what tube and size of tube I need to connect to the drip tray for drainage?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I can't find the answer anywhere but can someone tell me what tube and size of tube I need to connect to the drip tray for drainage?


Without going through the box a guesstimate is 3/8th, go by the kit that comes with the machine, it has a tail on it.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Without going through the box a guesstimate is 3/8th, go by the kit that comes with the machine, it has a tail on it.
> 
> Jon.


The only tube that came with it is the direct water supply braided hose. No tubing was supplied for the drip tray drainage.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Without going through the box a guesstimate is 3/8th, go by the kit that comes with the machine, it has a tail on it.
> 
> Jon.


OK .. Been to the back of the garage and located the plastic box that sits under the drip tray (Optional tray or drain) and the pipe you'll need is 12mm/ 1/2" ID....

Jon.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

They are unlikely to supply flexi pipe as the quantity if required is down to your requirements, the cold water feed supplied assumes at best you have an isolated water supply point near your machine.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> OK .. Been to the back of the garage and located the plastic box that sits under the drip tray (Optional tray or drain) and the pipe you'll need is 12mm/ 1/2" ID....
> 
> Jon.


Thanks Jon! Appreciated


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Thanks Jon! Appreciated


I'm a tad miffed though as I'd thought we had left some of our coffee stuff at t'other place so I re-ordered scales, thermometers, blow me if they were not in the box when I looked for the drain attachment, you should have had this query 24hrs ago







.

Keep us up to speed with your intentions, pumped, mains and the like.

Merry Xmas ..... Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Well already tired of spinning the machine around on a small counter to refill the reservoir, so today I ordered a FloJet with a 25ltr water bottle. It'll be here tomorrow.

I'm sure I was able to make more drinks with my Sage Dual Boiler between refills


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

One or two pics


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

^^^^^^ like, like, like!!! It's great


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Enjoy!


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Well I've got the Flojet all connected up but I've hit a bit of a problem where the Flojet is pulsing and the pressure gauge is fluctuating when pulling a shot. I didn't expect this.

I have tried increasing the length of 3/8" tubing in a hope to increase the buffer reservoir between the Flojet and the ECM but it's still pulsing.

Anyone have any ideas on how I can cure this?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Well I've got the Flojet all connected up but I've hit a bit of a problem where the Flojet is pulsing and the pressure gauge is fluctuating when pulling a shot. I didn't expect this.
> 
> I have tried increasing the length of 3/8" tubing in a hope to increase the buffer reservoir between the Flojet and the ECM but it's still pulsing.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas on how I can cure this?


Not familiar with the system, but is there an accumulator in the system for stored pressure, is there a differential setting, what do the instructions indicate ?.

You've switched over on the machine ?.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> Not familiar with the system, but is there an accumulator in the system for stored pressure, is there a differential setting, what do the instructions indicate ?.
> 
> You've switched over on the machine ?.
> 
> Jon.


Not a lot tbh. It suggests the tubing may be too small or excessive length. I only connected the supplied parts and added a 5" length of 3/8" tube to transition to my machines braided line.

When I found that was pulsing I then swapped out the 5" section for a 3mtr length to try and increase the buffer of water between the Flojet and machine.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Yes Jon, I've switched over on the machine at the front and rear.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

If when there's no demand from the FLOJET it cuts out and stays off until you use the machine ?, it suggests that side of it is OK, the fact it is pulsing on demand means it is satisfying the demand and maintaining it, as there's insufficient differential + - between ON/OF it will keep doing that.

Does the FLOJET have a flow switch in it ?.

Member Larkin has one of these fitted and may be best placed if he has encountered a similar situation.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

xpresso said:


> If when there's no demand from the FLOJET it cuts out and stays off until you use the machine ?, it suggests that side of it is OK, the fact it is pulsing on demand means it is satisfying the demand and maintaining it, as there's insufficient differential + - between ON/OF it will keep doing that.
> 
> Does the FLOJET have a flow switch in it ?.
> 
> Member Larkin has one of these fitted and may be best placed if he has encountered a similar situation.


I don't think there is a flow switch inside that you can adjust or anything. Afaik it's a stand alone piece of equipment.

The Flojet must be providing more than adequate pressure and is stopping when there is not more requirement hence the pulsing. I want a steady pressure though really at the grouphead.

Maybe @jlarkin has experienced similar?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> I don't think there is a flow switch inside that you can adjust or anything. Afaik it's a stand alone piece of equipment.
> 
> The Flojet must be providing more than adequate pressure and is stopping when there is not more requirement hence the pulsing. I want a steady pressure though really at the grouphead.
> 
> Maybe @jlarkin has experienced similar?


That's about it, an accumulator would solve that erratic behaviour as it would store pressure against a bladder, pre air inflated at one side enclosed within a cylinder (Basically) (There are other methods) a good length of subtle pipe would do it but it is extreme to deviate from how that unit is perceived to function.

However as what you have purchased I understand is a stand alone unit and should not require an accumulator, I would have expected there to be an adjustment and for the manual to explain.

Member Larkin may be out on a pop up.

Jon.


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

@Deeez Nuuutz darn! I'm sure some people have run the flojet without an accumulator and I thought for a one group you'd be OK. I found similar but it wasn't constant, just it cycled on and off a lot with, using it on a 2 group, so as I mentioned I do use it with an accumulator - I got that from coffeehit.

I just had a quick look on the coffeehit website (and I'm guessing you bought from them?) the outline of the installation doesn't include an accumulator, I wonder if it's worth getting in touch with them, they've been quite helpful before with me before?

I could be remembering incorrectly but thought @jeebsy did use the flojet without an accumulator for a while? I can't think of anybody else that's had one, in case they have any ideas.


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> @Deeez Nuuutz darn! I'm sure some people have run the flojet without an accumulator and I thought for a one group you'd be OK. I found similar but it wasn't constant, just it cycled on and off a lot with, using it on a 2 group, so as I mentioned I do use it with an accumulator - I got that from coffeehit.
> 
> I just had a quick look on the coffeehit website (and I'm guessing you bought from them?) the outline of the installation doesn't include an accumulator, I wonder if it's worth getting in touch with them, they've been quite helpful before with me before?
> 
> I could be remembering incorrectly but thought @jeebsy did use the flojet without an accumulator for a while? I can't think of anybody else that's had one, in case they have any ideas.


Thought so, for smoothest operation and eliminate this constant cycling an accumulator is best fitted in hydraulic circuits, it also serves to eliminate hydraulic hammer.

If you get an accumulator make sure its for domestic use, drinking water.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

jlarkin said:


> @Deeez Nuuutz darn! I'm sure some people have run the flojet without an accumulator and I thought for a one group you'd be OK. I found similar but it wasn't constant, just it cycled on and off a lot with, using it on a 2 group, so as I mentioned I do use it with an accumulator - I got that from coffeehit.
> 
> I just had a quick look on the coffeehit website (and I'm guessing you bought from them?) the outline of the installation doesn't include an accumulator, I wonder if it's worth getting in touch with them, they've been quite helpful before with me before?
> 
> I could be remembering incorrectly but thought @jeebsy did use the flojet without an accumulator for a while? I can't think of anybody else that's had one, in case they have any ideas.





xpresso said:


> Thought so, for smoothest operation and eliminate this constant cycling an accumulator is best fitted in hydraulic circuits, it also serves to eliminate hydraulic hammer.
> 
> If you get an accumulator make sure its for domestic use, drinking water.
> 
> Jon.


Thank you both!

I was under the assumption that if I had a direct feed I could also activate the line pre-infusion. After connecting the Flojet, I still can't get the line pre-infusion to activate by pulling the shot lever to the halfway position. Any ideas how this is supposed to work?

Thanks


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

E61 preinfusion in that sense is almost accidental. Yes, if you have line pressure, having the lever at halfway will give you a kind of PI but it's not really designed that way. The E61 has a preinfusion chamber and a spring that lets go at about 3 bar IIRC. This is intended to just soften the blow as the pump kicks in, until the puck is saturated and headspace filled, at which point the puck is exposed to full pump pressure. That's (my understanding of) how it's *supposed* to work. Halfway house PI is kind of outside the design parameters as such. That's not to say it doesn't work. But if you do the halfway house trick, you're kind of over-riding the slow ramp-up from the PI chamber. So you may not lose/gain much in real terms.

That said, I do the opposite - pause the lever at halfway when killing the shot, to allow a decline in pressure and shut the pump off before the end. I'll not claim any 'pressure profile' benefits for this, just that it allows a slightly longer contact time and there's less (in my case bottled) water expelled into the drip tray.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

hotmetal said:


> E61 preinfusion in that sense is almost accidental. Yes, if you have line pressure, having the lever at halfway will give you a kind of PI but it's not really designed that way. The E61 has a preinfusion chamber and a spring that lets go at about 3 bar IIRC. This is intended to just soften the blow as the pump kicks in, until the puck is saturated and headspace filled, at which point the puck is exposed to full pump pressure. That's (my understanding of) how it's *supposed* to work. Halfway house PI is kind of outside the design parameters as such. That's not to say it doesn't work. But if you do the halfway house trick, you're kind of over-riding the slow ramp-up from the PI chamber. So you may not lose/gain much in real terms.
> 
> That said, I do the opposite - pause the lever at halfway when killing the shot, to allow a decline in pressure and shut the pump off before the end. I'll not claim any 'pressure profile' benefits for this, just that it allows a slightly longer contact time and there's less (in my case bottled) water expelled into the drip tray.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. So if you pull the lever halfway at the end of the shot for a slower decline, does that require line pressure?

Massively coincidental, but I only just learned about this technique this morning watching a WLL video


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

No, all it does is switch off the pump whilst keeping the exhaust valve closed. The system is still pressurised because the pump has been running and that pressure takes time to decline due to the resistance at the puck. Pressure then declines naturally as the residual water (espresso) exits the basket, as it has nowhere else to go until you drop the lever all the way and the exhaust opens into the drip tray. Dropping the lever immediately does no harm (that's what the designers intended) but it does mean that a lot more water ends up in the drip tray. Mine is tank fed with Waitrose Lockhills or Volvic.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

Hi all,

Can someone tell because this is really bugging me, my brew pressure gauge when not in use reads 2.0 bar. I pull a shot and it goes to the normal 9-10 bar but whenever it's idle it reads 2.0 bar. Is this because it's in a direct feed?

Does anyone else have this with their machine?

Thanks


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

It is absolutely normal, but when the machine is cold(not in use) it should read 0.

BR


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

Deeez Nuuutz said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Can someone tell because this is really bugging me, my brew pressure gauge when not in use reads 2.0 bar. I pull a shot and it goes to the normal 9-10 bar but whenever it's idle it reads 2.0 bar. Is this because it's in a direct feed?
> 
> ...


I can confirm what you experiencing, my pressure is zero as I currently use the reservoir, the 2 bar that you see is your water supply pressure from the flojet.

Nothing to worry about.

Jon.


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

I suspected that was the case after I posted but thanks for confirming. I can put my mind at rest now


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