# Sage Barista pro grinder issues



## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

Hi all
My Barista pro has recently become troublesome. I have always used the same fresh beans, 19g shot and get it dialled in to a 2.1 ratio, 2 weeks ago the grinder made an awful noise for a few seconds like a stone was stuck in it then carried on ok, so I presumed it was a harder bean. I took the upper and lower burrs out as well as the grinds fan with no damage evident.
Friday I checked the upper burr again and had to dial in again, was set to 2 on the upper burr and 4 on the screen.
Saturday I tried to make a coffee only for the coffee to be extracted way too fast so dialled in again, I changed to upper burr to 1 the lowest and on the screen was 7. I didn't make a coffee Sunday but this morning Monday once again it just poured way too fast so tried again and is now set to 6.
At this rate I will be down to 1 on the screen with no further changes available.
I am very close to the end of warranty, ends in Feb 23, I wouldn't say I average a coffee a day over the year and have only had this issues since the noise happened.
Sage support have been a complete waste of time, still waiting on an email for troubleshooting but I have followed everything on their site.
Anyone got any ideas?
Same beans, same weight, same tamp been ok for months, but what ever I dial in at it lasts a day 2 at most, but I'm running out of options.

Many thanks
Lee


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

Hi all,
For a months been using the same coffee beans without issue, then a month ago regardless of any of the settings, I could not get the grind anything close to what I was getting.

I contacted Sage support, my first time, not great. Pretty much deemed the beans I was using as not good, despite best part of 18 months with no issues, yes I know the beans may have changed slightly, but over the course of a fresh bag, I would change the grind setting from 7 to 4/5 towards then end of the week, a bag ( 250g) lasted about a week.
Any way Sage wanted to do a video call, so was arranged and as asked when suitable, so answered first thing in the morning.
The following day arrived, having fully cleaned the machine down and ready for the video call. I waited all morning, with the video call arriving at 11-59am exactly, not overly helpful being newly diabetic and needed food and meds within the hour.

First thing was to rest to factory defaults and after running through all the coffee beans I had, with every shot of coffee being extracted in under 15 seconds, sometimes flooding out before the pre infusion had finished. At this point I did explain the the Sage guy that I can't be doing this all day, I needed meds and food, which he said an engineer would be booked and Sage would send me 2 bags of Beanz subscription coffee beans to cover what had been used.

The 2 bags turned up a few days later, I used one but still struggled to anything close to a good shot, the second I kept to use with the engineer.
The engineer arrived a few days later, looked at the beans and said they were stale, it was opened that morning, so much for Sage saying fresh beans are better.
The engineer went to his van, brought in a 1kg bag of beans, added them to the hopper, poured a shot and within 2 shots, was a great shot.

So after 2 weeks after using up the Free beans left from the engineer visit, dialling in anything is becoming impossible again.

Settings from the original beans used for at least 18 months were 2 on the upper burr, 7 on screen.
Setting from Free engineer beans used for 2/3 weeks were 5 on the upper burr, 2 on screen.
Settings from new bag of beans today, 5 on the upper burr,2 on screen and then 4 on upper burr and 2 on screen.

I know Sage want you to use Fresh beans, but when the engineer brings beans with just a BBE date on, and they give a great shot, and the the Beanz were were stale, no a great look.

The question is when I changed the upper burr, I don't understand why I don't have to raise the grind setting on screen, surely if the upper burr is 6 with 10 on screen, changing the upper burr to a 5 would need the screen to changed to 12???? 
Is that not how the settings work with changing the upper burr?

I've seen videos were changing the upper burr is for when the burr gets over time, but changing the upper burr seems to do nothing.

Hope that makes sense

LB


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You shouldn't touch the upper outer burr setting. It's a youtube myth, The adjustment is there for eventual wear which is likely to take rather a lot of kg of beans, Far more than you are likely to have used. All altering it does is change the number for the same level of grind,

The grinders are calibrated when built so that the burrs come very close to touching on min setting, You should never need to grind at that setting, It will choke the machine - water wont run through,

I'd suggest phoning them again and saying that you are still having problems grinding any fresh roasted bean and you want a new grinder fitting. Put your outer burr back to the standard setting and tell the engineer you want to see the new grinder calibrated - they should do this anyway, Also look at the burrs and check if you have chipped them or worn the edge of the center burr at the bottom. The edges should be sharp on both burrs.

I am assuming you are using fresh roasted beans. Others can give bizarre results,


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It might be worth check weighing the grind weight you are using each time especially after cleaning out the grinder. The output at a set time will change over several shots so the time may need changing to correct it. Same if beans are weighed in but in that case more beans can be added.


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

ajohn said:


> You shouldn't touch the upper outer burr setting. It's a youtube myth, The adjustment is there for eventual wear which is likely to take rather a lot of kg of beans, Far more than you are likely to have used. All altering it does is change the number for the same level of grind,
> 
> The grinders are calibrated when built so that the burrs come very close to touching on min setting, You should never need to grind at that setting, It will choke the machine - water wont run through,
> 
> ...


When the engineer came a few weeks ago, he gave me a new upper burr replacement as I was under warranty. Being that the engineer gave me a 1kg bag of beans they seemed to behave the same until about 10 days after the visit. 
In the last week I have tried some Lavazza beans but they looked just as stale as the "fresh" beans sent by Beanz, out of curiousity I bought a bag of Morrisons own beans and they gave a better shot than the Lavazza. Oddly when complaining to lavazza about the beans being stale they replaced the 1Kg bag, pretty much no questions asked just a photo of the beans and packaging, so got a spare one to use as well.
At no point do I get to a point where the machine is choked, currently down to 2 again. I will reset it back to factory later today and see how it goes. 

When the engineer visited he simply added their beans, ground on 10, took a couple of attempts but got a good shot. He did nothing to the machine itself, no checking of grinder or burr. I've looked at the burr and can't see any scoring, damage or worn edges.

I will look after Christmas for some beans subscription, there is nothing local to me,except for a sandwich shop that proudly display "freshly roasted beans" by a company that disolved last August.

Many thanks

LB


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

ajohn said:


> It might be worth check weighing the grind weight you are using each time especially after cleaning out the grinder. The output at a set time will change over several shots so the time may need changing to correct it. Same if beans are weighed in but in that case more beans can be added.


Previoulsy to the problem I was weighing the beans for each shot at 18g beans to get 1:2 ratio, then dialling in to get 36g coffee out. Since the engineer visit being that it worked ok for a while, I didn't see the need to weigh them, but now looking forward, that's something I will try,
thanks
LB


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

highlander317 said:


> I have tried some Lavazza beans


If you want to use those a better option is likely to be the 1kg packs they produce for hotels etc. They are blends intended to be used on an espresso machine. I tried a couple out of curiosity and no problems at all, One did need a very high ratio to get a sensible taste out of it. The range can be seen on their global site and some are sold on Amazon. Maybe elsewhere as well.

Using a Niche more recently I have also tried Starbucks blond roast in an americano as I have that if I visit one, I have been getting near the same taste. As the beans ran down I tried a rather lower ratio and closer to correct. It probabky needs a shorter time as well.  Might buy another pack to find out. Wont change from fresh roasted though. Mine come mail order.

There may be one way of checking grinder calibration. When I set the SGP burr back to the standard setting I ran the grinder, no beans added and slowly reduced the setting. The motor runs much faster when not grinding. At the minimum setting the motor slowed down a touch but remained stable for maybe 10 secs. As it came it got slower and slower rather quickly so pulled the plug as quickly as I could. I then checked what my BE did. Just slowed down a touch. That was as it came. Lucky. I hadn't damage the SGP burrs or blown the motor,


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

The lavazza beans are 1Kg. 
They were very dry when they were opened and when I complained to lavazza they sent out another 1kg so got plenty to use up lol


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

To Update on the grinder and beans.

I have changed over to the dual wall pressurised 2 cup filter. I reset everything back to factory including the upper burr back to 6. Grind setting is currently at 17, unheard of with the single wall filter, couldn't get a does out on grind 2 and didn't want to push it to 1.
The crema is very airy but is better than what I'd been getting after changing beans.

LB


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I suspect you haven't selected from the range that is for espresso machines. I chose from this selection





Coffee for Business - Bar, Hotel and Restaurant | Lavazza


Experience the selection of Lavazza Coffee for Business and share an unforgettable experience with clients. Discover the range for Bar, Hotel or Restaurant.




www.lavazza.com




!

The important aspect could be the header - for business
*Coffee for your business*
*  Our specialities for coffee shops *

Experience the wide selection of high-quality Lavazza coffee. Discover our barista coffee blends to share an unforgettable experience with your clients. Our products are the ideal solution for your hotel, restaurant or cafè to enjoy the authentic taste of Italian coffee. 

They did have a link for coffees for hotels etc. I found 2 pure arabica blends. These








Lavazza Pien Aroma Espresso Beans 100% Arabica 1kg : Amazon.co.uk: Grocery


Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop Lavazza Pien Aroma Espresso Beans 100% Arabica 1kg.



www.amazon.co.uk




Very expensive and good








Lavazza Coffee Espresso Tierra, Whole Beans, 1000g : Amazon.co.uk: Grocery


Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop Lavazza Coffee Espresso Tierra, Whole Beans, 1000g.



www.amazon.co.uk




Weak and high ratio needed.

I've used these to run a new grinder in a bit








Amazon Brand - Happy Belly Select Coffee Beans - Organic, UTZ Certified - 2Kg (2 Packs x 1Kg) : Amazon.co.uk: Grocery


Amazon Brand - Happy Belly Select Coffee Beans - Organic, UTZ Certified - 2Kg (2 Packs x 1Kg) : Amazon.co.uk: Grocery



www.amazon.co.uk




Starting too coarse and working down to espresso levels as clumping reduces. Taste - can't remember so probably nvg.


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

I bought them in ASDA only as a temporary measure plus the missus gets her discount of 20% at the time.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I can't see why you can't get an idea of the state of the grind setup as I suggested.

Set something mid range and run the grinder without any beans, As no beans the grinder will run faster than normal. While running go finer a step at a time. If the motor slows down at all listen carefully If the speed remains constant for say 4 or 5 secs that is how both of the grinders I mentioned were with the outer burr at the standard setting,. If the speed decreases more over time go coarser immediately. If it just slows and stays at that speed one step coarser should restore the speed. There should be no need to try and grind on the min setting if it's like this. Something to remember.

Ok so it doesn't slow at all even at min setting. Adjust the burr 1 step finer and repeat. If it rubs at a setting of say 2 or 3 I'd put the burr back to normal or remember the number it did rub at and avoid using it.

When I had the ever increasing slowing on the SGP I mentioned I thought what the hell is going on. It was on a programmed dose so had to pull the plug. Only thing I thought of to do. It will have run for longer than above but no burr damage, It just slowed a bit when i reset the burr and ran completely clear 1 setting coarser - 1/2 mark if I remember the SGP correctly. It's been a while since I used it. There is some backlash when going coarser on these grinders. Best go too coarse and then fine to where you want to be,

Some time later I did have a problem with the BE grinder. The grind was adjusting but not with the range it did have. I phoned Sage and reported it but mentioned I wasn't entirely sure about the beans. Later out of warranty I decided it wasn't beans. I used a DTI on a magnetic stand to check the burr was going up and down and found it was over a limited range of setting numbers. They sent an engineer to fix it. He mentioned washers so I got the DTI out and he decided to change the entire grinder, It's hard to check for this fault without the gear and I suspect the problem was down to me really. However I did see how they calibrate their grinders, Might be useful some day but not suitable for a machine under warranty. With decent beans it's easy to check Grind finer and output should drop. That stopped happening at a certain setting and no change with another adjustment or another.  given how they adjust it's rather hard to see how this problem cropped up.


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## highlander317 (Dec 1, 2020)

I understand what you mean by the grinder noise changing when empty.
This morning I attempted dialling in again and gave up. Started where the pressurised basket grind was set weighed 18 grams coffee at 15 on the screen, poured before the pre infuse. Went down to 12 on the screen and down to 17 grams as 18 gram was too much, better shot but 56gram out in 15 seconds. Changed down to 10 on the screen, weight at 17gram got another poor shot, 56gram in 15 seconds again, tried at 8 on the screen weight 17g done in 15 seconds with 56 gram out, not really any difference between the last 3 shots. Nothing in the the last 3 shots gave me any indication that I would achieve 17gram in, with about 30/35 g out, with the number 2 on the dial fast approaching and why I contacted sage support weeks ago, I gave up and put the pressurised basket back in.

The beans the engineer gave me and all engineers use for dialling in and testing machines, had no date of roast on, but gave the best pour of a shot in good time, much better than those provided by Sage from Beanz subscription to replace any beans for the telephone support call, they were stale as told by the engineer, and then proceeded to get a great shot dialled in within 2/3 attempts, still at a 4 on screen.

The only issue with using the pressurised basket is the crema seems to be very bubbly, almost cappucino like, not the end of the world when it gives you a better shot than "fresh" beans


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