# Grind Finer Tamp Lighter?



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've been having a play about with the Major over the weekend. I've found that grinding finer and tamping much lighter seems to be producing good results.

I've only been trying this with Foundry Rocko Mountain Yirg beans but have had good results with 18=>35g in 35secs.

How come grinding finer tamping lighter works? Calling all techie folk.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I've been having a play about with the Major over the weekend. I've found that grinding finer and tamping much lighter seems to be producing good results.
> 
> I've only been trying this with Foundry Rocko Mountain Yirg beans but have had good results with 18=>35g in 35secs.
> 
> How come grinding finer tamping lighter works? Calling all techie folk.


Possibly because grinding finer means more erm fines, which provide greater resistance . the lighter tamp will promote efficient saturation of the coffee bed , giving an even extraction.

Not read this yet but it may shed some light https://colonnaandsmalls.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/grinding-the-dark-matter-of-coffee-a-think-piece/


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Why does it work? Because it does. Just do it. Drink coffee. Don't ask questions!

I too reached this realisation a while back and my coffee has improved immeasurably


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> Why does it work? Because it does. Just do it. Drink coffee. Don't ask questions!


Leap of faith. Take the red pill....or does that just lead to more questions


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I imagine its because its easier to extract the solubles more effectively from smaller particles.

As for tamping gently, well that's nothing new. We've always known that you can slow flow rate through he puck by tamping harder and that too fine a grind can clog the flow so that's pretty straightforward fizziks innit


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I suppose it's a balance of trying to understand what changes to your technique actually do and not over thinking everything.

Just doing what works seems the easier option though









I managed to tamp lighter with the SJ to a degree but I've managed to do this significantly more with the Major. So I was trying to understand why this is the case, burr size, grind speed etc..?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

You'll be getting a different/better grind profile from the bigger burrs.

Tamping is nothing compared to 9BAR 130psi, keep it consistent and let the grind do the rest.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I've found that grinding finer and tamping much lighter seems to be producing good results.


Thank the ancient ones!!!!

I am not using as good a set of machines or may I say have anywhere near the same experience as 99% on here. My scales haven't even turned up yet but.........this is exactly what I have been finding and have kept the grind fine adjusting my tamp to way lighter than someone who is new would be led to believe is supposedly correct from what he/she would read online and otherwise when researching ratios, tamp etc etc.

Admittedly I am totally inexperienced but rather than stick to the 'rules' have been just doing what mixture of grind/tamp seemed to work for me but coming down to a conclusion thus far that keeping the grind finer and tamp lighter gives me the the taste result I like and surely that is what is 'correct'. Isn't that what its all about.

This may all change when I start getting 'perfect' weights with the scales on the way but its bloody reassuring to find this post and see I am not just rubbish at it lol.

Not saying I haven't had a few mishaps (flipping disasters is closer a description) but hey surely the proofs in the tasting after all and all the funs in the experimenting and the ritual of preparation.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Good post. I was also hung up on the received wisdom that you need to or should tamp at a specific level of pressure. Total codswallop!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

CamV6 said:


> Good post. I was also hung up on the received wisdom that you need to or should tamp at a specific level of pressure. Total codswallop!


Espro make a good turn out that though


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

The old school of thought was 30 lbs tamping pressure

If you grind fine and tamp light, then when you flip the portafilter upside down and the coffee doesn't fall out it is tamped enough

All you are doing is compacting it a little. The coffee will swell when the water hits it (hence the delay before espresso comes out, as it is expanding to the shower screen)

There is so much turbulence with the pressure that the water will be passed through the puck. A greater surface area gives you more extraction.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Glenn said:


> If you grind fine and tamp light, then when you flip the portafilter upside down and the coffee doesn't fall out it is tamped enough


When trying to dial in some beans in my newly acquired grinder not so long ago, on maybe the third attempt, after tamping I thought I'd try this technique of turning portafilter upside down seen as I'd seen others do it in YouTube videos, the whole lot fell out into my hand. "ARGGGH!"


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Glenn said:


> If you grind fine and tamp light, then when you flip the portafilter upside down and the coffee doesn't fall out it is tamped enough


Careful with this...


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Grinding finer creates smaller /finer particles which naturally fit more closely together leaving less voids requiring less compaction /tamping.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Glenn said:


> *The old school of thought was 30 lbs tamping pressure*
> 
> * If you grind fine and tamp light, then when you flip the portafilter upside down and the coffee doesn't fall out it is tamped enough*
> 
> ...


*That 30lbs of pressure is the one that I read in research that was just making everything of wrongness in my attempts until I let it go then I was fine.*

*
......and the don't fall out bit is just so logical see thats the sort of advice people like me look for not a rule but when it sounds like common sense wow, then adapt to suit your taste buds.*

*
*

Oh and well done jeebsy, your my hero!!!! hahahahaha my kinda style*. *

*
*


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

There's tamping light, then there's EK43 light....


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. But I have no idea what 30lbs of pressure should feel like so I just pushed down on my bathroom scales with the tamper to 30lbs and it is way more than i was expecting. Is this a wildly inaccurate way I am trying to measure ? If someone competent at tamper where to use the bathroom scales on the kitchen counter method what would the tamp pressure weigh? is there another way to measure the pressure I should try. I know it is all relative to the fineness of the grind, but I'm just trying to get a feel for it.

I did turn the portafilter upside down after my normal tamp and it all stayed in place


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

That's the same as a lot of people start out doing. There are a couple of other pieces of equipment to aid you. Click Mat or the Espro calibrated tamper.


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## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Yeah I did the bathroom scales thing but don't tamp anywhere near the 30lb mark.....

Anyway. Got home and pocket scales had arrived, ironic really with this thread today also. My guess work is over and I can be more precise and look at my ratios to others......

Appears my sight measure for 18g for the beans nigh on exact. However!!

With a flow time of about 28 secs at same grind/tamp as usual I got the same level in espresso cup as usual and still tasted nice but after measure is 45g lol so I'm a tad heavy!

Bit of work to do then. Can't tamp that much harder as machine chokes......Gonna be a balance of not quite as fine a grind and a harder tamp.

Let the games begin and if I get a better espresso happy days and experimenting to everyone's else's ratios and finding hopefully an even better tasting shot.

Scientific precise but to your own specifics.

I was hmmm, cool, 45g oops hahaha pfffft


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