# New member, new coffee machine, help!



## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Hi,

Just joined the forum after reading lots of useful threads. I have been making coffee in my moka pot for years and frothing my milk in an old french press. I love espressos and experimenting with coffee recipes from around the world. My lovely children (bless 'em) clubbed together to buy me an espresso machine for Christmas but at the moment I am struggling a bit with it. In the reviews I have read about the machine everyone says what great coffee they are making, but at the moment I have managed nothing better than my moka pot, and a few have been considerably worse (disgustingly sour which if I understand correctly is due to under extraction?).

The machine is the Sage duo temp pro - instructions are pretty hopeless and I have been figuring out what to do myself with information online. I have been using a cheap supermarket brand espresso to practice but I also received a gift of a couple of bags of freshly ground coffee (I don't have a grinder). First coffee I brewed with this was very sour - coffee poured out very fast, wasn't warm, complete disaster. Second time I flushed hot water through first, put a bit more coffee in, tamped a lot harder and the coffee seemed to flow evenly and at the right rate, and was a good temperature but it was just as sour as the first. Any suggestions what I did wrong the second time?

I have some digital scales arriving today so hopefully that will help. What would be a good weight of coffee to begin with for a double shot and what volume should I aim to get out? I have lots of other questions for later ☺ Thank you! Emily


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

It's going to be the usual "you need a grinder" Spiel. And a ballpark figure of 1:2-1:3 (eg 18:36 or 18:45 ish in grams) in around 25-30 seconds.

Are you heating the machine before you start (not just flushing water through) switching it on and waiting for it to get warm.

They're good little machines if you get the basics right. You don't say which supermarket (eg Waitrose have some decent beans if you check roast dates) but if you're using Tesco value pre ground, you'll get Tesco value in the cup.

When you've used your moka pot what have you been using? (Which coffee and from where?) Moka pots are much more forgiving of a range of grind sizes.

Keep an eye on the sale section for a grinder- it's that time of year when upgrades have happened and folk are selling on.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you Missy, I did kind of think I should get a grinder, but I may have wait a little while until funds are available for this. Will definitely have a look on eBay though. Am just trying to get the best out of what I have at the moment (Lidl own brand and these freshly ground beans from a specialist shop - bit ashamed to admit). When I can get to the shops I will get something branded and better quality.

I have learned that I need to switch on and wait 10 or 15 minutes and then flush water through before I start cooking. Whether this is the optimum time to heat up I don't know, but the instructions are no help with this.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Welcome Emily

I'd say you are about right with 10-15 mins for warm up. The machine doesn't have a boiler tank in it as it uses a different kind of heating system (which heats the water on demand), so it isn't like you are waiting for 1ltr of water to boil, then pressurise etc etc.

It's important to get the portafilter nice and warm, so when you take it out of the machine to fill it, make sure it is hot to touch. You could also stand it in a mug of boiling water too if you want to. Espresso is usually extracted with water of a temp around 90-95c so you can see how hot everything should ideally be.

You will, however, only get so far with the machine using pre-ground coffee. In terms of things you can change without a grinder, you've got:

quantity of coffee in portafilter basket

quantity of coffee pulled through (ie the brew ratio)

How you distribute the grinds in the basket/prep the basket

How hard you tamp the puck

In my experience, the last two are more about consistency rather than really affecting how the shot tastes, but the first two will change that considerably.

Ideally a good starting point is a 1:2 ratio, extracted in about 30 seconds.

*Now, if you try that with the coffee you have (so fill the basket with say 17g of coffee if it will take it, then weigh out 34g of espresso from it, and time how long it takes) - this will tell you how close you are to a reasonable starting point.

If the coffee comes out in 15-20s it will be sour and under extracted

If it takes 60s to come out then it will probably taste bitter and over extracted.

This is where the grinder would start to be required - as from here you would adjust your grind setting to be less line or more fine, depending on what you are experiencing. If coffee is running fast, grind more fine, if running too slow, grind less fine.

As a starter for 10, and so we can help you the most with the kit you have, why don't you do what I have put a * against above and post up results on here. We can help you from there (although adjust the amount of coffee in to be whatever is right for the basket, I can't remember your exact machine).

Good luck!

Will


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## ratty (Sep 22, 2019)

As you must know, ebay can be a minefield!

Once you have 5 posts here you can access the for sale section in this forum where members who usually look after their equipment sell on after upgrading.

You have two posts already so another three and you can make offers on the for sale section.

Good luck.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Will, thank you so much for the reply. It is all very helpful 



itguy said:


> It's important to get the portafilter nice and warm, so when you take it out of the machine to fill it, make sure it is hot to touch.


 I did wonder if I should do this. I will do the boiling water method next time.



itguy said:


> *Now, if you try that with the coffee you have (so fill the basket with say 17g of coffee if it will take it, then weigh out 34g of espresso from it, and time how long it takes) - this will tell you how close you are to a reasonable starting point.


 I will have a bash when my scales arrive (hopefully) today and report back. I notice you are from the Vale of Belvoir. Me too (well on the edge).


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

ratty said:


> As you must know, ebay can be a minefield!


 True and thank you for the reply. I will definitely look on the for sale here at some point.


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## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

Welcome Emily!

I have limited experience but what I would say is although machines and grinders are expensive they're not the most complex machines so should last a very long time BUT another thing I've learned is that both grinders and machines need regular maintenance.

Maintenance is easier said then done when you have toddlers around like me!

Don't let that put you off though!

I would certainly recommend a grinder. I started with the Sage grinder pro which is a good start however knowing what I do now I would have got the Euerka Chrono which is cheaper (£170) and although I've not used it I'd be surprised if it's not better.

Again having limited time myself, convenience was key for me so I upgraded to the Barattza Sette 270 Wi. No way worth £500 but second hand I'm very pleased with it. It weighs directly into the Portafilter a set weight and the grounds need minimum distribution.

There's so much information out there but if you can spend the time do some research it may save money in the long run


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

My dad has the DTP and a niche and it makes great coffee- so it is perfectly capable and actually quite a clever little package.

The one thing that does puzzle me about it is getting everything hot. The machine has an auto power off function so it never sits there getting warm. The portafilter will not get hot to the touch and I'm not sure if it needs to be. Others here may have looked into it more. I've still had good coffee from one without having to heat it another way.

Good luck. Get a grinder first, then worry about smaller details later.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Emily said:


> I will have a bash when my scales arrive (hopefully) today and report back. I notice you are from the Vale of Belvoir. Me too (well on the edge).


 Great stuff, have a go and let us know how you get on.

Well, the Vale is looking splendid today with it's white snow covering.. very pretty.

When all of this COVID stuff allows, you're more than welcome to pop over (Stathern) and we can have an afternoon making coffee LOL. Bring your machine too and we can try that. You can have a go with a grinder and see how it works for you too.

Just fyi too, the shop here in Stathern (garage shop) sells 200 degrees beans too, in case you are caught short. Not sure if they do ground 200 degrees coffee or not, apologies.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you all for such a warm welcome to the forum and all the helpful advice! I am still waiting for Amazon to deliver my scales before I can make a start! Itguy - just went for a long walk with the dog at cotgrave country park and was snowing heavily and quite a good layer on the ground but when we got back to Bingham there was none!


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

@Emily if your scales don't turn up, let me know as I have a spare cheap (ie £5 or £6 !) set of jewellery scales I can let you have for nothing if you wish.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

itguy said:


> if your scales don't turn up, let me know as I have a spare cheap (ie £5 or £6 !) set of jewellery scales I can let you have for nothing if you wish.


 Thank you!! That is very kind


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Sage do video training sessions and there is a very active and enthusiastic owners group on Facebook, rave (as do many other roasters) do mail order beans and ore ground which is better than super market sign up and get a voucher order a bag or 3 of signature blend and have a play it will take a while to get the hang of it so expect to "invest" at least a bag of coffee into learning and up your milk order!

https://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/coffee-bean-blends/products/signature-blend?variant=3149907329050


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

So, scales arrived (yay) and I measured my 17 g. Heated the portafilter and cup in boiling water and flushed hot water through. Put cup on scales and started the machine and timed with my phone. Coffee started pouring at about 10 seconds. I turned off the machine when it reached 34.5g which was at about 23-24 seconds. I think I made a mistake though because I left the cup underneath while it was still dripping so ended up with 49g altogether oops. Temperature was good and lots of crema. Definitely the best I have made yet so I am a lot happier but it tastes likes it has a very big dollop of lemon juice in it. Not unpleasant but very lemony. I read the label on the packet and I should be getting chocolate, nuts and citrus fruit top notes. Maybe it is just not the blend for me. Definitely not getting chocolate and nuts anyway.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Great news! Interesting that you got so much lemon- perhaps pulling it out before you get 49g will reduce that - it seems a lot of post shot "drip" Though!


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Missy said:


> Great news! Interesting that you got so much lemon- perhaps pulling it out before you get 49g will reduce that - it seems a lot of post shot "drip" Though!


 Yes it did seem a long time to come to a stop. I would have taken the cup away but didn't want coffee all over my brand new scales lol. It did taste like it was about a quarter lemon juice.


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Great stuff - sounds like you are getting somewhere.

On the next one you make, try to get the cup and scales out of the way at around the 34g mark and then taste it. I suspect it may still be a bit under extracted as the machine in the first 10 seconds or so is heating the brew water and starting pumping, not really doing that much to the coffee. When it starts actually extracting the shot you're only taking about 15 seconds or so to get the 34g out, so that is a bit quick.

How did the 17g feel in the portafilter after you tamped it down? Did it look full? The reason I ask is because if the basket can take 18g, put that in and try for 36g out instead. It might be that 17g is underdosing in the basket and therefore also making the shot run a little quicker than you can get it with the coffee you have.

Failing that, you're starting to reach the need for a grinder as you'd need to have the grind a bit finer to slow the shot down a bit more than you have at the moment.

Good luck and keep going!


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

There good little machines, you need to account for the drips at the end, or pull the cup

A good little grinder js the mignon manule £245 from black cat or mine used for £190😂😬

Are you using the single wall or double wall basket.

I too found the auto off feature a pita.

If i remember correctly some people used to turn the steam function on before the shot, steam listen for the thud thud thud, then right into the espresso pull.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Emily said:


> Yes it did seem a long time to come to a stop. I would have taken the cup away but didn't want coffee all over my brand new scales lol. It did taste like it was about a quarter lemon juice.


 Saucer 😉


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

itguy said:


> On the next one you make, try to get the cup and scales out of the way at around the 34g mark and then taste it. I suspect it may still be a bit under extracted as the machine in the first 10 seconds or so is heating the brew water and starting pumping, not really doing that much to the coffee. When it starts actually extracting the shot you're only taking about 15 seconds or so to get the 34g out, so that is a bit quick.


 Don't know why I didn't think to move the scales as well hahaha.



itguy said:


> How did the 17g feel in the portafilter after you tamped it down? Did it look full? The reason I ask is because if the basket can take 18g, put that in and try for 36g out instead. It might be that 17g is underdosing in the basket and therefore also making the shot run a little quicker than you can get it with the coffee you have.


 I will try again with 18g as there was still room in the basket.



Cuprajake said:


> Are you using the single wall or double wall basket.
> 
> I too found the auto off feature a pita.
> 
> If i remember correctly some people used to turn the steam function on before the shot, steam listen for the thud thud thud, then right into the espresso pull.


 I'm using the double wall basket. It's for pre ground coffee so I think that's correct?? I will have a go with the steam wand you suggest. Is this to get the water up to temperature right immediately before pulling the espresso?



HDAV said:


> Saucer 😉


 Of course lol! Don't know why I didn't think of this 😂

Thank you to everyone who has given advice! Excited about making coffee today now ☺


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## itguy (Jun 26, 2015)

Double wall basket - in your current position (ie no grinder) is probably no bad thing. Most of us on here don't use them as they tend to mask and dull down the coffee extraction, and when you have a grinder they can mask the changes you are making with grind fineness etc.

On another topic - if you are in Bingham, why don't you pop in to Butlers and see if they can grind you some fresh coffee to take home. They may even have some on the shelf. I always tend to get a good coffee from them when I go in and they know what they are doing.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you for the suggestion, I will do that and get a takeaway espresso from there if possible so that I know what I am aiming for. Thanks for all your help ☺


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Emily said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, I will do that and get a takeaway espresso from there if possible so that I know what I am aiming for. Thanks for all your help ☺


 Ideally get a bag of house beans ask them to grind it for you there and then, and ask them what extraction time they aim for.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Well I am still trying with this machine and am still hopeless with it. It seems that it takes me ages and is endless palaver to weigh out coffee, heat everything up, tamping which goes wrong, I can never remember which order to do things lol. I am trying to steam milk but today ended up with hot milk and a bit of froth. Tried to make a flat white which was rubbish and took all of two minutes to not enjoy. Then I am cleaning up all the mess of coffee and hot water everywhere, cleaning steam wand, etc etc. I cannot seem to get any consistency in what I am doing. I could make a brilliant flat white with a moka pot and french press in no time, with no mess. Why can't I get on with this appliance? Does anyone else find this is a lot hassle and work for very little coffee, at least when you started out with your machines? Is it just a matter of practice or am I just really rubbish with it? 😞


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Emily said:


> Is it just a matter of practice or am I just really rubbish with it? 😞


 Hi Emily. You're probably not going to want to hear this again but your biggest problem is not having a grinder. If you have one of these sorts of machines, you have to have a grinder. And unfortunately there's a sort of 'minimum requirement' there too, you can't just get a £50 one off Amazon or Currys. A decent second hand grinder or a hand grinder are also options.

The next issue is home coffee with an espresso machine has a learning curve, one that is probably a couple of months for someone that is brand new to the scene. It took me 2-3 months before I was getting a nice consistent drink out of my Sage BE so don't think you are alone! The process - weighing out (beans, grinds and output), heating up, tamping etc - it's all part of it. It's a bit of a hobby in the beginning. After a while you get it down, it takes me 90 seconds/2mins start to finish now (after turning machine on a bit before of course).

I would suggest reading the Sage sticky at the top of that forum, lots of tips in there. There's certainly things you can do to help you on your way but tbh, without a grinder it's going to be inconsistent at best.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/51039-sage-beprodtp-etc-read-this-first/page/6/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=799813&embedComment=799813&embedDo=findComment#comment-799813


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you, yes I read the sticky and it was a good read, I keep forgetting all the tips and info when I come to actually doing things. I do take the point about getting a grinder and I realise that I need to get something of quality. Just am a bit wary of adding another expensive appliance to the mix and still not being able to coordinate my brain and hands to make a decent coffee. I am not very practical and not great with machines. More the creative type lol. I would be a nightmare employee in a coffee shop! I will not give in!


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## Mulligrub (Jun 24, 2020)

Hi Emily, welcome to the forum.

I can recommend a good quality hand grinder like the Feld 47 made in Scotland by Made by Knock. I got one for Christmas, an absolute joy to use. Beautifully made, It will easily grind 18g of beans to espresso quality in under 1 minute. Just checked their website and they appear to be in stock.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

@Emily take it one step at a time, when you have a few spare minutes practice milk steaming water and a drop of fairly liquid lots of YouTube videos out there not all are good! No qualifications needed to upload to YouTube! Try whole latte love videos of they do sage or the sage/breville in most of the world official channels. No reason why you shouldn't be able to make Something enjoyable without a grinder but fresh beans freshly ground will help.

and yes it's a learning curve a steep one at times and I regularly question of the faff is all worth it!


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## Marocchino (May 1, 2019)

Emily said:


> I think I made a mistake though because I left the cup underneath while it was still dripping so ended up with 49g altogether oops.


 Don't know anything at all about your machine, so hesitate to give you information that may take you in the wrong direction. However a process you could use if the portafilter continues to run with coffee after the shot is stopped is to swap out the cup. When you reach your desired shot length, swap out the cup with one hand whilst replacing it with another empty one to catch the residual flow/drips with the other.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

ooops my bad...another case of reply to post without seeing page 2 and same answer :classic_blush:


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thanks all for replies. If I know other people find it a bit of a faff then I know I am not necessarily getting it wrong. Just a couple of questions ....

1) How warm should I get the portafilter before starting? I have been boiling a kettle and soaking in hot water but that is just an extra job. Flushing hot water through doesnt get it very hot.

2) Does it really matter exactly how hard I tamp?

3) what bits of the machine do you clean before sitting down (or standing up) to enjoy your coffee? Eg, can I just leave it for later or do I need to clean the steam wand and stick that little pin thing in the hole and take the wand head off straight away etc?

Sorry if they are stupid questions.

Also, thank you for the grinder recommendation above! I am coming round to the idea of getting one. More recommendations for decent (but not expensive) grinders and where to buy would be very welcome!


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## -Mac (Aug 22, 2019)

I've found Sage machines to be sensitive to dose size. 18g is often not enough. Maybe try 19g and 20g (if it will fit in the basket) and tamp hard enough to remove the air gaps but not like you're trying to crush the grinds.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

Emily said:


> Thanks all for replies. If I know other people find it a bit of a faff then I know I am not necessarily getting it wrong. Just a couple of questions ....
> 
> 1) How warm should I get the portafilter before starting? I have been boiling a kettle and soaking in hot water but that is just an extra job. Flushing hot water through doesnt get it very hot.
> 
> ...


 i wouldn't bother with heating the PF for now. the less to worry about the better. i wouldn't also worry about milk at all, so long as its hot, it will do - you need to get espresso coming out at the right rate then you can fiddle with other bits. on your machine i believe you should aim for something like 30g of espresso in around 35-40s. if you can achieve this, and control it to be longer or shorter in time, then we can help you get the nest out of the machine.

for tamping, just try and be consistent. you can be reasonably firm, but not to the point your feet come off the ground.

you do need to clean the steam wand as soon as though or it is a crusty nightmare to deal with. all you need is a wet cloth at the ready. as soon as you stop steaming (before even pouring the milk), give it a good clean. if possible do a short blip of steam afterwards into the drip tray to clear any milk out. then use the steam tip pin thingy every weak or so.

i would also say that hand grinders can do the job, but are another faff... electric grinders cost more, but maybe not so much more. a second hand grinder will likely lose you no money if you sell it onwards.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

1 just leave it in machine while you prep warm not hot is fine, flush some water through group to heat it and portafilter

2 firm and consistent

3 purge steam wand wipe, empty portafilter and enjoy or tip down sink and go again


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Emily said:


> Coffee started pouring at about 10 seconds. I turned off the machine when it reached 34.5g which was at about 23-24 seconds. I think I made a mistake though because I left the cup underneath while it was still dripping so ended up with 49g altogether oops. Temperature was good and lots of crema. Definitely the best I have made yet so I am a lot happier but it tastes likes it has a very big dollop of lemon juice in it. Not unpleasant but very lemony. I read the label on the packet and I should be getting chocolate, nuts and citrus fruit top notes. Maybe it is just not the blend for me. Definitely not getting chocolate and nuts anyway.


 That'll be the "citrus fruit top notes" then. Assuming it was sweet with citric/lemon and not face puckering sourness.

You might balance the shot out with chocolate and nuts by extracting to a longer ratio or grinding finer though I realise the latter isn't an option. Letting the machine heat up a bit longer might help but I don't know how your machine works.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Things are more positive. I made quite a nice espresso today. I dumped the rest of the lemon flavoured coffee in the bin and opened "house blend number 2" which is much more pleasant and doesn't slap me around the face with astringency. When I have worked my way through this packet I will have a serious look for a grinder. I have also simplified things and am just weighing 19g of coffee but judging what comes out by eye aiming for 60ml which seems to take about 25 counts in my head to pour.


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Emily said:


> I have also simplified things and am just weighing 19g of coffee but judging what comes out by eye aiming for 60ml which seems to take about 25 counts in my head to pour.


 Hi Emily - welcome to the forum! As you have found there are lots of people here who are very helpful so you've come to the right place.

Ive been following your posts with interest and am glad things are improving. As CocoLoco said, it does take time to become comfortable with any new machine, and it sounds as though your persistence is already paying off.

I have a Sage dual boiler, which is a bit different from yours but obviously made by the same company. One of the biggest things for me that I found helpful was weighing the dose of coffee you're putting in to the portafilter and also weighing the shot coming out. It's very hard to judge by eye the dose you get out because crema is a foam, and as it settles out over time (if you run your shot into a glass you'll see it looks like pouring a tiny shot of guiness) it's not a very accurate way of assessing the volume of liquid. I'd strongly recommend weighing your espresso as it comes out so you know your ratio of grounds in to liquid out, and aim for 1:2 grounds in to liquid out in between 25-35 seconds. It's important to time this too. A digital kitchen timer is perfect for this or use the stopwatch on your phone.

Youll find the shots that run quicker (ie are more towards the 25 second mark) are likely to taste more 'acidic' as the water going through does not have time to fully extract the coffee. To counter this without a grinder I would add another 1g of coffee into the portafilter, and tamp to full compression (ie until you can't tamp any more). If you always tamp as hard as you can it will always be consistent, and is one less variable to worry about.

Conversely you'll find shots that take a little longer to run (eg that finish around the 35sec mark) may taste ashy or dull, as the water going through the coffee puck has extracted more than is desirable, and has taken some burnt ashy flavours with it. You could counter this by putting a bit less coffee in the portafilter to reduce the pressure and allow the water to flow through a little faster.

Sorry this is a bit of a rambling reply! Basically I would weigh your shots, and tamp firmly every time, adjusting the dose as outlined above to tweak things to your preference.

Lastly I went through about two kilos of coffee just trying to get things running in the right ball park when I started, you're doing great - just keep at it and I'm sure you'll be making delicious shots in no time.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you for the welcome HH! ☺ And for the very informative post.

I am improving by the day now. I have found that 19g of coffee works very well and I am managing to warm the machine, cup and portafilter without too much faff now. Occasionally I forget to do something, but I am mostly getting the hang of a working method. Also, switching coffee blends has removed the sour lemon taste. I'm not great at tamping- if I am very careful and take time to level the coffee first, then I get the puck right. If I try to tamp too quickly, then I end up with sloping coffee. Now that I am having to think less about what I am doing, I might start weighing the coffee coming out again. I am timing by counting to 25😂 Not precise, but the coffee is tasting nice.

Texturing milk is not going so great but I will get there. I am going to do a small jug of milk a day even though I don't put it in my coffee lol. I do have a milky coffee at the weekends for a treat though. Excited for getting a grinder soon!


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## Deegee (Apr 5, 2020)

Sorry for coming in part way through a thread Emily, but if you're having issues with level tamping, maybe a coffee levelling tool would be helpful to prevent a sloping tamp? Usually about £20-25 on Amazon or Fleabay, although putting a post in the "Wanted" section might get you a cheaper s/h one?

Good luck and stay with it, sounds like it's already getting better!


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you DeeGee. My Sage did come with a razor like tool which I have struggled to use. It slices the top off level but when I try to tip the excess out, the rest of the coffee falls out with it 😂


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## Deegee (Apr 5, 2020)

Something like this, you spin on top of the coffee in the portafilter and it levels it out, you can then tamp knowing it's level and partially compacted, you just finish off to your required pressure of tamping. HTH.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Thank you for that! Maybe I am using the razor wrong!? I will have to google it and see if there are some better instructions than the woeful ones that came with my machine.


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## Deegee (Apr 5, 2020)

Emily said:


> Thank you for that! Maybe I am using the razor wrong!? I will have to google it and see if there are some better instructions than the woeful ones that came with my machine.


 I've searched and found that razor device, looks like it's as useless as the Gaggia free tamper! It's well worth investing in a leveller, head off to YouTube, plenty of vids on there about it, plus don't forget that some of the Sage kit is sold as Breville in the U.S. HTH.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Emily said:


> Things are more positive. I made quite a nice espresso today. I dumped the rest of the lemon flavoured coffee in the bin and opened "house blend number 2" which is much more pleasant and doesn't slap me around the face with astringency. When I have worked my way through this packet I will have a serious look for a grinder. I have also simplified things and am just weighing 19g of coffee but judging what comes out by eye aiming for 60ml which seems to take about 25 counts in my head to pour.


 Timing isn't really important, you can have good shots at 20 seconds and good shots at a minute. 60ml will probably be quite a long ratio, which is what I suggested earlier, it's no surprise it's better. Weighing output is just about consistency, there's no magical ratio that will deliver good shots. You're doing things right by letting taste guide you, when you get a grinder you'll be able to tweak the grind rather than mess about with dose or be forced into longer or shorter ratios than you want. You might find a longer ratio is more to your taste anyway. A distributor isn't a replacement for bad distribution (it just levels the top) or an uneven tamp, you'll just have to keep learning there or buy a self levelling tamper.


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