# Very poor Mignon performance - alternatives welcome



## erikh74 (Dec 25, 2017)

I have used a Eureka Mignon loaner for about a week now, and I have to say it is not performing well. The reason for ordering this grinder was it´s stylishness, counter-top friendly size and what one would assume to be excellent product quality. But this machine must have something of a temperament.....

It has a huge and thick power cord (aesthetic let-down), produces clumpy grinds, un-consistent weight output of grinds compared to same amount of beans input and a very messy output (there really is no need to for a diy funnel system or whatnots in 2018 on a properly designed machine).

The whole point is to have something inconspicuous and clean looking on the counter top - I have looked at Mazzer Mini i.e., but this is too voluminous. I do not need the big hopper either as I weigh my beans and do not make more than a couple of cups per day anyways.

Suggestions are highly welcome and should not be too difficult. After all, if Elon Musks team managed to land a couple of space rockets perfectly after shooting them up into space, surely there is a grinder out there......?


----------



## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

The Niche seems to be the one most are waiting for - seems to address many of the limitations of both domestic grinders and commercial units (intended for high volume continuous use) used at home. Even with my limited knowledge and experience I'm holding off any grinder upgrade decisions until I've seen what this very interesting product can do.


----------



## erikh74 (Dec 25, 2017)

Greydad said:


> The Niche seems to be the one most are waiting for - seems to address many of the limitations of both domestic grinders and commercial units (intended for high volume continuous use) used at home. Even with my limited knowledge and experience I'm holding off any grinder upgrade decisions until I've seen what this very interesting product can do.


The niche could be very nice indeed - here is a link and picture


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

erikh74 said:


> I have used a Eureka Mignon loaner for about a week now, and I have to say it is not performing well. The reason for ordering this grinder was it´s stylishness, counter-top friendly size and what one would assume to be excellent product quality. But this machine must have something of a temperament.....
> 
> It has a huge and thick power cord (aesthetic let-down), produces clumpy grinds, un-consistent weight output of grinds compared to same amount of beans input and a very messy output (there really is no need to for a diy funnel system or whatnots in 2018 on a properly designed machine).
> 
> ...


It is a under £300 grinder, like neat all grinders it suffers from retention , doesnt do a timed accurate dose and is clumpy ( a search on forum would show most users experience this ) .

People have put there hopes on the niche, it seems to sit out there on its own. Other than than , with your requurements there would be little to meet your expectations.


----------



## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Well, you want wider burrs no doubt as a starting point, like 58mm on the mini or preferably 64mm. The Mignon is just 50mm.

So how about the 64mm ECM S-Automatik 64, well reviewed here. Width is 150mm






By the time we get to the F4E, though we're the same size as the Mazzer Mini. Surely, though, you'd take the hopper off and substitute something smaller? I don't use a hopper on my Mini.


----------



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

The kitchen friendly consumer grinder thar produces great results doesn't seem to exist. Hopefully the Niche will fill this gap otherwise you just need to find the space for a commercial grinder which will also save you money if you buy second hand.


----------



## Kitkat (Jan 25, 2018)

erikh74 said:


> I have used a Eureka Mignon loaner for about a week now, and I have to say it is not performing well. The reason for ordering this grinder was it´s stylishness, counter-top friendly size and what one would assume to be excellent product quality. But this machine must have something of a temperament.....
> 
> It has a huge and thick power cord (aesthetic let-down), produces clumpy grinds, un-consistent weight output of grinds compared to same amount of beans input and a very messy output (there really is no need to for a diy funnel system or whatnots in 2018 on a properly designed machine).
> 
> ...


I have a Mignon and I'm not sure what you mean by huge and thick power cord - mine is the same size as that on all my other appliances (coffee machine, kettle etc.)?

It's pretty much an entry level grinder so is bound to have limitations but mine is not messy and does not spew coffee all over the counter. I grind into a container (ramekin sized) and there is no spillage. It is clumpy but they are easily got rid of, and in fact one of the articles I read recently said you didn't even need to do that as they collapse easily when touch so you can just tamp without getting rid of them first. I do stir to get rid of them before tamping but don't find that a problem. I don't think the Mignon is going to be good for single dosing without modifications though. I've not tried putting a set amount of beans in and measuring output as I just fill the hopper 1/4 or 1/2 full and measure output.

Maybe you'd just got a temperamental one!


----------



## erikh74 (Dec 25, 2017)

Kitkat said:


> ....I grind into a container (ramekin sized) and there is no spillage.....


Thanks for your sharing your experiences. Using a ramekin or similar could be a solution, but I am looking to have non-clumpy grinds directly into the portafilter without spillage. The ramekin will not do anything with the clumping either.


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

erikh74 said:


> Thanks for your sharing your experiences. Using a ramekin or similar could be a solution, but I am looking to have non-clumpy grinds directly into the portafilter without spillage. The ramekin will not do anything with the clumping either.


Think you'll need to start looking at much much more expensive grinders for that. Maybe a doser grinder would work better for you as the 'twacking' helps to break up the clumps before they hit the portafilter. I tried single dosing a set weight of beans in my mignon when I first got it & find it's much more consistant when I just load up the hopper & use it as it's been designed.

A certain amount of mess is inevitable when dosing directly into the portafilter no matter how expensive your grinder is hence so many dosing rings being available.


----------



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> Think you'll need to start looking at much much more expensive grinders for that. Maybe a doser grinder would work better for you as the 'twacking' helps to break up the clumps before they hit the portafilter. I tried single dosing a set weight of beans in my mignon when I first got it & find it's much more consistant when I just load up the hopper & use it as it's been designed.


If you buy second hand you could get something like a Mazzer SJ or Major for less money than a Mignon which will give you far better results.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Perhaps take a look at the Kinu manual grinder, should fill most of your desires. Pricey tho compared to a Mignon.


----------



## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

Simple solution is to buy or make your own (what I did) funnel - then there's no mess and a quick stir with

fork gets rid of clumps.


----------



## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Option 1 what's your budget, Double that you be on your way


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Why not turn it around? You have a grinder that will outlive you. It has small burrs but you knew that before you bought it. The downside to small burrs is clumping but so what. If you stir with a small fork or something the clumps soon go. You have can an awful lot more price wise and still suffer the problems you mention so they are not unique to the mignon. There is no grinder in a similar price bracket which is remarkably better. One question: how many kilos have you put through so far?


----------



## erikh74 (Dec 25, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Think you'll need to start looking at much much more expensive grinders for that. Maybe a doser grinder would work better for you as the 'twacking' helps to break up the clumps before they hit the portafilter. I tried single dosing a set weight of beans in my mignon when I first got it & find it's much more consistant when I just load up the hopper & use it as it's been designed.
> 
> A certain amount of mess is inevitable when dosing directly into the portafilter no matter how expensive your grinder is hence so many dosing rings being available.


Ok, thanks for your opinions


----------



## erikh74 (Dec 25, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> Why not turn it around? You have a grinder that will outlive you. It has small burrs but you knew that before you bought it. The downside to small burrs is clumping but so what. If you stir with a small fork or something the clumps soon go. You have can an awful lot more price wise and still suffer the problems you mention so they are not unique to the mignon. There is no grinder in a similar price bracket which is remarkably better. One question: how many kilos have you put through so far?


All true of course. BTW - how did the Sage grinder you bought holding up?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Depends what you compare it to. In my opinion, it is a pile of plastic rubbish but I have had so ma y too end grinders perhaps that's unfair. No better than a Mignon. Certainly less reliable


----------



## Beeroclock (Aug 10, 2015)

One handed cos I didn't have a tripod for my iPhone - but here you go...






however I have also backed Niche - mainly due to it's single dosing ability and small footprint.


----------



## erikh74 (Dec 25, 2017)

Beeroclock said:


> One handed cos I didn't have a tripod for my iPhone - but here you go...


Outstanding - thanks a lot! I´ll make one and post up a video myself 

P.s. Is there a FB community Coffee Forum group where members can post and discuss? If not, should we make one?


----------



## johnbudding (Dec 2, 2014)

On the clumping front I used to use a little bit of kit I'd made myself... I would grind into the end of a 2L water bottle that I had cut off, which had some mesh in it from a garden centre cut in a circle and plonked inside nearer the lid end. I'd then tap this gently over the portafilter to sift the grinds and break up clumps. It was a simple fix but worked very well because the lid end of the water bottle also provided a good way to aim the grinds into the basket and disperse them around.

https://allfortheboys.com/storage/_MG_9996.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1315931816461 (you don't need a balloon, obviously)

https://www.wyevalegardencentres.co.uk/shop/greenhouse-shading-1-2m-wide-0810014189/


----------



## ohms (Jan 22, 2018)

I was sort of in a similar boat, had the Mignon for a few weeks and had may issues - but have now upgraded to a Macap MXD (not very home kitchen-size friendly, admittedly). But before purchasing, I was considering one of the new range of Mignon's. Have you considered them? They run much more silent, have a sealed hopper, have anti-clumping tech built in and do timed dosing, too. There's also one model with the same features and larger burrs, too.

There's a brochure with full details, here: https://www.servicesphere.com.au/ts1511214416/attachments/BlogPost/77/catalogo%20new%20Mignon%20Silent%20Range.pdf


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Eureka are bringing out three new Mignons, BB are hoping to have them in April.

Apparently all your problems are solved!


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

rdpx said:


> Eureka are bringing out three new Mignons, BB are hoping to have them in April.
> 
> Apparently all your problems are solved!


Wish they'd decided to tip the burrs on one of them turning into a mini mythos but I guess that's too much to ask for.


----------



## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

ohms said:


> I was sort of in a similar boat, had the Mignon for a few weeks and had may issues - but have now upgraded to a Macap MXD (not very home kitchen-size friendly, admittedly). But before purchasing, I was considering one of the new range of Mignon's. Have you considered them? They run much more silent, have a sealed hopper, have anti-clumping tech built in and do timed dosing, too. There's also one model with the same features and larger burrs, too.
> 
> There's a brochure with full details, here: https://www.servicesphere.com.au/ts1511214416/attachments/BlogPost/77/catalogo%20new%20Mignon%20Silent%20Range.pdf


They look really nice - if they're priced competitively with the Niche that's two fine choices for my next upgrade 







or a backup if Niche don't make it for any reason (I hope they do btw)


----------



## ohms (Jan 22, 2018)

https://www.elektros.it/gb/en/coffee_grinder_eureka/silenzio_16cr_black.html

Well, at £300, it's quite a bit cheaper...


----------



## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Impressive! The Niche has the low speed motor, which I like and which seems to be unique, and the new Mignon retains the standard portafilter holder, which I've become very used to with my little SGP. I think the Niche burrs are larger (?) but I don't know if the retention figures are comparable (Niche seemed to be remarkable). Mignon of course from an established manufacturer with all that entails in terms of warranty. Interesting times


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Greydad said:


> The Niche has the low speed motor........


The Niche has a very high rpm motor.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Nikko said:


> The Niche has a very high rpm motor.


What do you call high speed?

Espresso at 1.5 gms per second is hardly fast!


----------



## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Nikko said:


> The Niche has a very high rpm motor.


No it doesn't, Nikko, quite the opposite - the Niche runs at around 330PM which is ⅓ to ¼ the speed of most grinders available today which are typically 1000-1400RPM. I've not so far found another grinder in my hunting around which even approaches this and must be one of the main reasons it also claims to be so quiet.

It's also a DC motor so should in theory have none of the speed variation issues that can plague motors driven directly from the mains - if they've built the speed regulation side of it correctly it should run uniformly anywhere in the world.

Have a read of @DavecUK 's excellent review of the Niche where he covers all of this in detail:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585125e4c534a5293ffe148f/t/5a1be0229140b7c306445a08/1511776294394/Niche+zero+review.pdf


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Greydad said:


> No it doesn't, Nikko, quite the opposite - the Niche runs at around 330PM which is ⅓ to ¼ the speed of most grinders available today which are typically 1000-1400RPM. I've not so far found another grinder in my hunting around which even approaches this and must be one of the main reasons it also claims to be so quiet.
> 
> It's also a DC motor so should in theory have none of the speed variation issues that can plague motors driven directly from the mains - if they've built the speed regulation side of it correctly it should run uniformly anywhere in the world.
> 
> ...


You are confusing the speed of the motor with the speed of the burrs. Your statement about the speed stability of dc vs ac induction motors is also not correct.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Nikko said:


> You are confusing the speed of the motor with the speed of the burrs. Your statement about the speed stability of dc vs ac induction motors is also not correct.


Although you are correct, yes it does have a very high RPM motor in comparison to the standard 3000 rpmish induction motor, it really does depend on the application and the way the motor is employed. I think the one thing not to get too hung up about is the motor and it should have a good service life. It's really not of huge relevance (my view I suppose) except to say it is very effective in supporting the Niches design. I did try to break the motor, I did stall it and winced as It was held stalled for much longer than any reasonable person would allow and there was no magic blue smoke, or funny smells. The grinder was well abused whilst I had it, much more so than I think it will see in the normal domestic environment.

However as usual, it's all down to how the final product comes out....not how the prototype performed....hopefully it's going to be good.


----------



## Greydad (Feb 25, 2018)

Nikko said:


> You are confusing the speed of the motor with the speed of the burrs.


The speed of the burrs is what is important and that is much lower on the Niche than any equivalent grinder. I drive an electric car and it is the speed my wheels are turning that is my most direct concern as a user, not how fast the (3-phase) drive motor is rotating (which is faster because it goes through a step-down reduction gearbox to the axle).



> Your statement about the speed stability of dc vs ac induction motors is also not correct.


Let me be more precise: provided the Niche DC is motor is properly controlled it should be speed independent of mains supply variation in a way a conventional AC motor driven directly off the mains won't be. There are enough posts about grinders running at different speeds in countries with different AC supply voltages or supply frequencies to suggest that most grinders manufacturers are not that concerned about this, but Niche seem to be. How successful they have been will depend on how sophisticated the power electronics is that they've employed of course so it will be interesting to see what they've done and how it performs when it appears on the market.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Greydad said:


> Let me be more precise: provided the Niche DC is motor is properly controlled it should be speed independent of mains supply variation in a way a conventional AC motor driven directly off the mains won't be. There are enough posts about grinders running at different speeds in countries with different AC supply voltages or supply frequencies to suggest that most grinders manufacturers are not that concerned about this, but Niche seem to be. How successful they have been will depend on how sophisticated the power electronics is that they've employed of course so it will be interesting to see what they've done and how it performs when it appears on the market.


Oh dear it sounds like I am contradicting all the time. I did the tests and put the Videos up about all this. I did a whole set of low voltage tests to see how the grinder would perform e.g. would it grind would it clear the chamber properly. I am trying to remember I think it ground OK down to 204 volts and cleared the chamber OK (I am pretty sure I remember trying it below 200V as well), but the 204 Volts is documented in the review and is lower than any UK allowable voltage. I also tried a US motor and that ground fine as well to well below their nominal voltage.

I also overvolted to 268V and it performed as normal, just ground a tiny bit faster. Yes the motor does change speed, but the effect of voltage (mains variation) on burr speed is negligible because the of the 30:1 reduction ratio.

Oh I should add the electronics are not too sophisticated thank god, they are just what they need to be.....much better for reliability!


----------



## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

The ac induction motor's angular velocity is governed by the mains frequency and is therefore verystable except when operating beyond its load range. Voltage fluctuations havevery little effect on the speed of ac induction motors.

The speed of dc motors varies directly with voltage andtorque and will be more affected by their variations than an ac motor. That isnot to say that in the Niche, with its high ratio reduction drive, this will bein any way detrimental.

Hyping up the Niche (or knocking grinders with ac motors) basedon dodgy science is not helpful.


----------



## Beethovens_Beans (Mar 12, 2018)

Thanks for starting this thread! I'm on the edge of making a grinder purchase and the Mignon was on my list for all the positives you've mentioned. No longer though... Back to the research.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Beethovens_Beans said:


> Thanks for starting this thread! I'm on the edge of making a grinder purchase and the Mignon was on my list for all the positives you've mentioned. No longer though... Back to the research.


The Mignon is the best grinder you can get for the money......I do not think anyone will argue with that. of course it has its idiosyncrasies of which the only real one is having to stir to break the clumps up. Do your research and come back and share what grinders are better in the same price bracket.....the only other course of action for you is to buy used


----------



## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I think when you change grinder there is always a period of acclimatisation/frustration. Perhaps because everything you've learned about your grind-compensation routine and how to anticipate adjustments is suddenly useless. That's not the grinder's fault.

As a case in point, i had a Mignon for many years and only traded it because SWMBO bought me a Mini E. I hated it and the coffee I made with it for weeks. I had Claudette trying to console me. Then I learned the Mini.

My conclusion after a year or so was that it offered little benefit in the cup over the Mignon + WDT but the experience of re-learning really helped my distribution.

I believe the Mignon has its place as a good value, very partner friendly grinder, that looks good, travels well, and has historically had good residuals. I doubt anyone would say it was a 'silver bullet' grinder though.

I loved mine.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Obnic said:


> I believe the Mignon has its place as a good value, very partner friendly grinder, that looks good, travels well, and has historically had good residuals. I doubt anyone would say it was a 'silver bullet' grinder though.
> 
> I loved mine.


But I'll be you love the E92 even more


----------



## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

DavecUK said:


> But I'll be you love the E92 even more


Too right. Occasionally I look sideways at a Monolith Flat but then I gather myself together.


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

Beethovens_Beans said:


> Thanks for starting this thread! I'm on the edge of making a grinder purchase and the Mignon was on my list for all the positives you've mentioned. No longer though... Back to the research.


As I already mentioned above, according to Bella Barista the new Mignon grinders which they are expecting next month are greatly improved and do not have the problems mentioned above.

Why don't you give them a call and find out for yourself?


----------



## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

What I don't understand about the new mignons is why the mid model 'specialita' has bigger 55mm burrs but the range topping 'perfetto' only has the 50mm.

Only diff I can see is a colourful grind setting wheel....


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

jj-x-ray said:


> What I don't understand about the new mignons is why the mid model 'specialita' has bigger 55mm burrs but the range topping 'perfetto' only has the 50mm.
> 
> Only diff I can see is a colourful grind setting wheel....


...


----------



## rdpx (Jul 18, 2016)

I was in BB yesterday and asked them about this and I think Marko said they weren't going to be stocking the PERFETTO as they saw the SPECIALITA with the 55mm burrs as being the star from the three new models. They will carry the SILENZIO as well.

I say "I think Marko said" because by that time I had had about 73 espressos and it's possible that I was hallucinating.

Anyway - I took a couple of pictures. Please ignore the grounds all over the bench - that was inexperienced operator error, the grinder throws them straight down into the PF, with no clumping.

R


----------

