# Trying to decide on a Cherub or Piccino



## rk164

Hi

I am about to purchase either a Cherub or a Piccino. Trouble is I am having a hard time deciding on which. I will be using it for cappuccino/latte drinks maybe 2 a day, 4 at the weekend.

I was initially considering a Cherub but that seems a bit overkill based on my requirements. I then read about the Piccino being harder to descale compared to the Cherub as well as needing temperature surfing. I prefer the size and looks of the Piccino to the Cherub.

I've been changing my mind on a daily basis between these 2 machines.

Whatever I buy I don't plan on upgrading for a long time.

I would be be interested to hear from any owners who considered both of these and what swayed their choice and whether things like descaling and temperature surfing are issues on the Piccino.

Thanks in advance

rk164


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## 4515

I considered both but went for the Cherub. I was concerned about the de-scaling but was advised not to let this be the deciding factor.

I cant comment on the Piccino but I'm loving the Cherub - lots of steam and I'm now making great coffee. It has its detractors but for the money you'd struggle to find a better new machine.

Do you already have your grinder ? I found a huge improvement by upgrading my grinder


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## 4085

It is a difficult choice...or is it/

Turkeys do not vote for Xmas!

Why buy a product that is going to draw you into an expensive factory or engineer descale every year. Unless you are proficient with the spanners you will not be able to do it yourself, so why put yourself in that position?


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## rk164

working dog said:


> I considered both but went for the Cherub. I was concerned about the de-scaling but was advised not to let this be the deciding factor.
> 
> I cant comment on the Piccino but I'm loving the Cherub - lots of steam and I'm now making great coffee. It has its detractors but for the money you'd struggle to find a better new machine.
> 
> Do you already have your grinder ? I found a huge improvement by upgrading my grinder


I will be getting a Mahlkonig Vario along with the espresso machine.


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## CoffeeMate

Hi,

I used to have a Piccino, kept it for about six months. I thought it was the best option since it had a double boiler. I had a problem with it so instead of sending it back to be repaired I sent it back and upgraded to a Cherub.. one with stainless steel sides at that.

I am a lot happier with the Cherub all around. The quality of the machine seems better and the steam more powerful.

I also replaced my MC2 grinder with the Mahlkonig Vario and find it satisfactory as I can change the type of beans and adjust the grind so much easier. I only use the grinder for espresso.

I am still a novice and feel I will always be since I find it so difficult to achieve consistency in the finished drink. I haven't given up the quest though and may even be able to do a bit of latte art one day soon.

Many thanks to Peter from Espresso Underground for the help he has given me over the past couple of years. He answers all my many questions and sorted out the problems I had. He is such a lovely gentleman to deal with.


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## almad77b

rk164 said:


> I will be getting a Mahlkonig Vario along with the espresso machine.


Thats basically my setup (cherub/vario). I've had it for a few weeks and absolutely loving it. Sure it has a large footprint in a domestic kitchen but for me who mainly consumes milk based drinks at roughly the same rate as you, I'm loving the steam power.


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## almad77b

Same as Coffeemate, I also bought from Peter at Espresso Underground, he was great to deal with and very quick turnaround of my order.


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## superdudeo

If any one is interested on doing a group purchase on a Cherub, let me know. I'm in the market for one!


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## Yes Row

I too looked at both and ended up buying the Cherub, the descale thing was a small issue, but the real issue was I knew I would want to upgrade too soon, as that's my nature!


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## coffeebean

The Cherub is a fantastic machine for the money and it's built in Birmingham. This means that if anything ever goes wrong, parts are easy to come by and Fracino's aftersales service is fantastic. I have had a lot of very happy Cherub buying customers (a few of them on the forum!) and would be happy to help in any way I can.

Andy


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## tcr4x4

I'd love a cherub, but it's just too big for my kitchen. I've measured every possible space and it just won't fit. So for me, my upgrade will have to be the piccino and then maybe a cherub or something else when we move house later in the year.

Its all all very well saying why bother buying a piccino, when a cherub is so much better and not much more expensive but for some, like my self its that or nothing.


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## coffeebean

A Piccino is still a major step up from a Classic! Give me a shout if you want a great deal!!

I'm sure I could throw in some fresh beans to get you started!

Andy


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## AliC

Hi

Sorry to jump in on this thread, what with being new and all.

I had the same dilemma so rang the nice folk at Fracino and asked them the difference between the Piccino, Cherub and Heavenly. The Piccino does not have a separate hot water tap, which is something I would want for making the kids hot chocolate or a cup of chai for the Good Lady Wife. Also if we had visitors who wanted an americano. It seemed daft to spend all that dosh on a coffee machine and then go and put the kettle on too.

I'm planning a trip to Brum to see the Fracino folk in person and having a bit of hands on with the machine before committing to buying all the same.

This looks like a great place for lots of help as I embark on my new struggle to make a decent coffee at home.

Cheers everyone.


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## 4515

AliC said:


> Hi
> 
> Sorry to jump in on this thread, what with being new and all.
> 
> I had the same dilemma so rang the nice folk at Fracino and asked them the difference between the Piccino, Cherub and Heavenly. The Piccino does not have a separate hot water tap, which is something I would want for making the kids hot chocolate or a cup of chai for the Good Lady Wife. Also if we had visitors who wanted an americano. It seemed daft to spend all that dosh on a coffee machine and then go and put the kettle on too.
> 
> I'm planning a trip to Brum to see the Fracino folk in person and having a bit of hands on with the machine before committing to buying all the same.
> 
> This looks like a great place for lots of help as I embark on my new struggle to make a decent coffee at home.
> 
> Cheers everyone.


Where are you based ? It may be that theres a friendly Fracino owner nearby who could give you an unbiased play with their kit


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## Foz

Hello

I have had a Piccino for 14 months and find it makes great coffee and steamed milk day after day. I went for the Piccino as it has a small footprint, is great value for money and is a step up from the classic I owned previously. Being a dual boiler the temperature is stable and you do not have to wait when switching between water and steam.

Others have selected the Cherub and seem to justify their choice by rubishing the Piccino but the only down side that I have found it that it does not have any flexibility to vary brew temperature and you are stuck with what you've got. If you want different flavour profiles this has to be achieved by varying brew time (controlled by varying the grind) not ideal.

Piccino advantages

It is designed to warm up quickly, I find I can get a good cup after 10 minutes.

The smaller tanks allow quick warm up, with minimal energy use.

It can make coffee and steam milk without having to wait

Coffee has same taste time after time, all other factors such as coffee grind and freshness being the same, indicating to me that the temperature is stable.

Has a relatively small footprint

Disadvantages

Cannot alter brew temperature. Only of use if you want and will use this function.

Does not have a hot water tap (tank to small recover quickly if taking 300ml) but it is easy to boil 400ml is a kettle and most people have one.

Hope this helps

Peter.


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## Charliej

The other answer to the whole boiling a kettle to warm cups thing is do like I did and acquire one of those instant hot water dispenser machines, saves on the hassle of filling the kettle etc and fits nicely on my bench right next to the Classic.


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## CoffeeChris

I have a Piccino and its a great machine. Steams milk well and have had some great shots with my VST 18g, my only negative is that it does vibrate slightly when making espresso


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## Beanie Man

I am making the same decision.

Would like the Cherub and can see the advantages but it's just TOO deep at 49cm for my kitchen!

It's not a super tiny kitchen but the whole depth of the work surface is just too big.

Will have to go Piccino...


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## coffeebean

Can do you a great deal on a new Piccino! Give me a shout if you are interested!

Andy


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## Beanie Man

Fab. Thank you Andy.


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## Dr Steve

Have a look at an expobar instead, height only 40 cm and 26 cm wide


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## Chriswilson

Hi Guys

I'm enjoying the same dilemma (!).

I currently have a Europiccola which produces a very good shot - one per session would be a bit harsh but it won't do several.

It also requires regular tightening and I no longer have the dexterity to do this......so..........it's going to be my Sunday morning toy.

Clearly the service provide by Fracino has impressed all so that is a great comfort.

The general consensus in this thread seems to be that the Cherub has the edge over the Piccino but I'd like to be convinced that the domestic machine would suit my needs - ie 3 cups a day and twice that at weekends. I don't really want or need a "junior" commercial machine.

There also seems to be great concern about de-scaling but as I'm not going to be making seventy cups a day I'll cross that bridge etc.

Any thoughts?

Thanks all

cheers, cw


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## coffeechap

I would go for the cherub and use bottled ash beck and you won't need to worry about scale for a very long time if ever


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## gwapenut

I've now switched to Ashbeck - Coffeechap, how often would you recommend (a) Changing the cherub's internal filter and (b) Doing a proper descale?

The filters are rated for 100 litres which is 50 bottles of Ashbeck .... but of course Ashbeck is a lot purer than tap water. Equally though, the filter could go all skanky inside if left for too long, regardless of scale?


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## Chriswilson

Thanks Coffeechap - the de-scale issue isn't a worry and I'll be using tap water - why the Cherub over the Piccino is the big question?

EDIT - and having looked at the recommended filter replacement interval I'm wondering if this is the right machine for me - just when you get a plan:confused:

cheers, cw


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