# Wasting coffee dialling in



## Hexagram (Jan 3, 2018)

I've just gone from one Gardelli coffee which I had perfectly dialled in and tasting great to their espresso blend and I've had to drastically change both my grind size (way coarser) and dose a couple of grams less to get good results. My issue, still being something of a novice, is that I've wasted an awful lot of coffee in the process, probably a good 6-8 shots worth. Gardelli ain't cheap! I'm just glad I wasn't switching the other way round since the coffee I've just finished was €20+ a bag.

Does anyone else have this issue? Is there something I should be doing differently when changing to a different coffee?


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## emc2 (Aug 21, 2016)

I have wasted a fortune trying to dial in. I have on occasions wasted an entire bag! It gets easier to dial in with experience though as you get to know your equipment. I grind a few grams of a new coffee to assess the grind size and make adjustments accordingly.


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## Hexagram (Jan 3, 2018)

I'm going to start ordering a kilo at a time I think. I wasted probably a good 150g of beans yesterday and I only had 500g in total, doesn't leave much to actually enjoy.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Hexagram said:


> I've just gone from one Gardelli coffee which I had perfectly dialled in and tasting great to their espresso blend and I've had to drastically change both my grind size (way coarser) and dose a couple of grams less to get good results. My issue, still being something of a novice, is that I've wasted an awful lot of coffee in the process, probably a good 6-8 shots worth. Gardelli ain't cheap! I'm just glad I wasn't switching the other way round since the coffee I've just finished was €20+ a bag.
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue? Is there something I should be doing differently when changing to a different coffee?


 Difficult to say without knowing what your equipment is and what your process of dialling in is...I mean, yes probably based on what you've said but noone can tell you what you sould be doing differently without you telling them what you're doing....I typically make an adjustment based on origin and appearance and get drinkable coffee right away and might get perfect shots from a small adjustment after that, other times I might have to adjust two or three times to really dial it in.


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## Hexagram (Jan 3, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> Difficult to say without knowing what your equipment is and what your process of dialling in is...I mean, yes probably based on what you've said but noone can tell you what you sould be doing differently without you telling them what you're doing....I typically make an adjustment based on origin and appearance and get drinkable coffee right away and might get perfect shots from a small adjustment after that, other times I might have to adjust two or three times to really dial it in.


 So I'm using a Lelit Mara and a Eureka Mignon. As for process, I kept everything the same from my previous coffee. I was using 20g of coffee and getting around 40g espresso in about 30 seconds. I changed nothing and literally nothing was extracted after about 15 seconds and the puck felt very spongey when I discarded it. I ground coarser and again nothing was extracted. I had to go coarser still and use about 2g less coffee and I'm now getting about 2:1 ratio from 18g coffee in about 32-34 seconds. It does taste pretty good again, but I don't think it's perfect.

Now when you say based on origin and appearance, what is it that you're basing adjustments on? I think it's my lack of knowledge in this area which does hamper me a little, or in yesterday's case, a lot!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

I hate to waste coffee too, that's why I prefer conical grinders now


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

It is always a shame. Perhaps you can keep the coffee and use it for something where it is not quite so critical? If you cook a lot it peps up a chilli or bbq dish. Coffee cake is a winner as are coffee martinis!

You can also disguise slightly shonky extraction in milk drinks. Have a cappuccino if it is not way way out.


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## grumble (Mar 16, 2020)

I just had chocolate brownie affogato 😋 - would probably be quite forgiving of a bad shot


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

grumble said:


> I just had chocolate brownie affogato 😋 - would probably be quite forgiving of a bad shot


 That sounds genius.


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## grumble (Mar 16, 2020)

It is spectacularly good! Only tried it with a dark roasted decaf from Rave and it was excellent. Can't see why fruity light roasts wouldn't be ok too though


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Hexagram said:


> So I'm using a Lelit Mara and a Eureka Mignon. As for process, I kept everything the same from my previous coffee. I was using 20g of coffee and getting around 40g espresso in about 30 seconds. I changed nothing and literally nothing was extracted after about 15 seconds and the puck felt very spongey when I discarded it. I ground coarser and again nothing was extracted. I had to go coarser still and use about 2g less coffee and I'm now getting about 2:1 ratio from 18g coffee in about 32-34 seconds. It does taste pretty good again, but I don't think it's perfect.
> 
> Now when you say based on origin and appearance, what is it that you're basing adjustments on? I think it's my lack of knowledge in this area which does hamper me a little, or in yesterday's case, a lot!


 Ok. So I'm assuming you're running the Mignon with a full hopper rather than single dosing. When you make adjustments on the grinder you need to clear retained grinds by either puffing air through with bellows or grinding coffee and discarding. I had the Mignon Mk2 and from what I remember adjustments for the entire espresso range were within a 1/4 turn, maybe at an exreme 1/3 so very small adjustments would be required to dial in which makes it harder than a large commercial or conical that needs larger adjustments. Whatever you're using it's crucial to purge old grinds or your adjustments won't show.

When I say origin and apparance I mean just that. Typically you'll find you need to grind lighter roasts significantly finer than darker roasts but that can change based on origin and varietal which you learn as you drink different coffees. If you just drink (for example) south american coffees adjusting based on colour might work out quite well but if you get coffee from all over the world you'll be caught out a few times. As you learn the range of adjustment of your grinder it shouldn't be difficult to get a decent shot straight after seeing the flow from whatever setting you're on.

Changing your dose is going to make things even more inconsistent and you should only change it if you can't actually lock the portafilter in with a few mm of headspace. I take it when you had to keep adjusting coarser you had to reduce the dose to achieve this....you might find you just need to change the ratio to get it perfect or you might be a very very small adjustment away. But you've described dialling in to a good shot with three doses there not 6-8...unless I'm missing something?

I believe DaveC has posted a chart that he's made somewhere but you can make one yourself by just making a note of how fine you need to go for coffees of a specific region and it'll make things a lot easier for you over time. Make a note of your Origin under Asia, South America, Central America, Africa and grind setting from Very fine to very coarse (across the espresso range). You might also find that altitude of growth is a good indicator if you have the information and you might find there are exceptios to the rule worth noting.


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## Hexagram (Jan 3, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> Ok. So I'm assuming you're running the Mignon with a full hopper rather than single dosing. When you make adjustments on the grinder you need to clear retained grinds by either puffing air through with bellows or grinding coffee and discarding. I had the Mignon Mk2 and from what I remember adjustments for the entire espresso range were within a 1/4 turn, maybe at an exreme 1/3 so very small adjustments would be required to dial in which makes it harder than a large commercial or conical that needs larger adjustments. Whatever you're using it's crucial to purge old grinds or your adjustments won't show.
> 
> When I say origin and apparance I mean just that. Typically you'll find you need to grind lighter roasts significantly finer than darker roasts but that can change based on origin and varietal which you learn as you drink different coffees. If you just drink (for example) south american coffees adjusting based on colour might work out quite well but if you get coffee from all over the world you'll be caught out a few times. As you learn the range of adjustment of your grinder it shouldn't be difficult to get a decent shot straight after seeing the flow from whatever setting you're on.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for this Rob, this is all really really useful stuff to me. On the process I followed, I have simplified a little. I did waste around 6-8 shots gradually making my grind coarser and dosing less. The idea of noting origin is an interesting one, I'll definitely do this from now on  in this instance I switched from Colombia to a blend, but it's definitely something I will do from now on. Funnily enough I'm finding the blend to be more enjoyable, it's just a bummer I've wasted so much of it getting it dialled in!!

Thank you very much for your help sir.


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