# Crema Removal



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

So I'm dialling in the Coffee Compass Rancheros Mahogany. It's about as far from the LSOL as I can imagine. First sip I nearly chucked the whole shot, but then realised id just got a mouthful of crema which tasted unbelievably sour and underextracted, but underneath the coffee wasn't far off....

So, should I be aiming for the full cup to taste good, or should I be scraping off or stirring in the crema? Or should I accept it as a quirk of dark roast?

The beans are 6 weeks old now.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

If you are coming to this from LSOL, you have just traveled from North to South pole. By virtue of being Mahogany roast it is really dark.

I think this is one for people who love dark roast's and not for people who prefer LSOL. Personally speaking I really like this coffee and do not like the light fruity coffee's. Perhaps an acquired taste ?


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Yeh I liked this too but also prefer darker roasts (though just ordered from Foundry) there is a lot of crema, try stirring it in.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

At the beginning of my espresso adventures, I was told to always stir in the crema, which I generally do but not always. And as El carajillo said, your particular adventure has taken you from North to South Pole - but adventures are vital.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Ha! I always stir my espresso before I drink to mix the crema in. Also, I tend not to be a big fan of light roasts - and always like a medium roast. However, I think I too have been thinking of travelling to the South Pole, and try out what this Mahogany stuff is all about.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

GCGlasgow said:


> Yeh I liked this too but also prefer darker roasts (though just ordered from Foundry) there is a lot of crema, try stirring it in.


Looking forward to hearing your thoughts (as a preferer of darker roasts) once you receive your Foundry beans. One thing I observed with their products is that they are (have been for me) a good bit lighter than the last two LSOL offerings. Regardless of colour, when brewed, they have made me STOP......and contemplate...could go on but; just be prepared for something special.


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## PeteHr (Nov 18, 2015)

What sort of ratio are you pulling this to ? You may want to try pulling it longer - say 2.5 to 1 (if you are using 2 to 1 ratio) as for my taste this coffee (and other dark roasts from Coffee Compass such as Hill and Valley) works better longer. I love this particular coffee btw - can't really get on with the LSOL at all !


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

...And sorry to the OP...I made a digression.

Crema is a function of bean freshness combined with roast level is it not? Different beans also have different responses too.

I Remember a Monsoon Malabar I once had from York Coffee Emporium...it practically exploded/fizzed out of the inverted aeropress I used on first using that batch. Out of the espresso machine at the time it was little different. Like a lively real ale newly on tap - more foam than liquid.

I since realised I don't like crema (or should I say, drinking it) much and prefer what lies beneath. But that is just me, and my preference.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

I always stir my espresso too, not to remove crema as such but more because espresso extraction is layered.

If you really enjoy LSOL I suspect you are going to struggle with this.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

aaronb said:


> .....because espresso extraction is layered.
> 
> If you really enjoy LSOL I suspect you are going to struggle with this.


I can understand that if you believed espresso in a cup was layered you would want to stir it....but surely if an espresso is poured and the volatiles rise through the liquor to the top, to make a crema, mixing must occur, and remove the stratification?

Second point is moot, I like my brewed coffees light, and can enjoy both light and darker via the E61. But never enjoy a brewed darker roast.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Fascinating that none of you can imagine me liking it both ways...

I like both dark bitter chocolate and milkybar (well a dairy free alternative these days!)

A monochrome existence is for the dull...

I'll try a 1:2.5 extraction and report back.

It's just the crema that bugged me. It can't be over-fresh it's been in my cupboard 6 weeks.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Should apologise to @Syenitic clearly we are two geniuses!

Stirring the crema in and taking it to 18>42 has done the trick and it's like the weird eggs&logs aldi sell between Christmas and Easter that are dark chocolate coated "proper" marzipan.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

More than you might ever need to know about crema from James Hoffman.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

And this is what another Jim said about stirring:



> Stirring folds the crema into the liquid (think of folding beaten egg whites into a dough), and this usually creates a more structured mouthfeel and flavoring. Stirring with a slow folding motion is the best technique.
> 
> Mostly, the crema on its own tastes dry and bitterish, while the liquid on its own will taste too extreme. In all such cases stirring will improve the shot. Sometimes both crema and the liquid taste good on their own. But this is rare, and I don't think there are any rules in predicting it.
> 
> It's easy enough to check: make the shot without swirling it while it pours, and taste the crema. If it tastes good, don't stir.


It's post 14 from here.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@Missy you need a boffin approved calibrated crema disperser to bring you back to the light side . This is not the coffee you are looking for young padawan


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Has it been endorsed by a coffee celebrity? If so yes please I'll buy 2, but only if they are £150 or more each...

I had no idea people were so divided, I assumed more people drank a variety of roast levels.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

There is the Mrboots' 20,000 post commemorative, limited edition version for £250 - they come with an authentication certificate signed in boots' own hand as well as his signature laser etched on the handle.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Phil104 said:


> There is the Mrboots' 20,000 post commemorative, limited edition version for £250 - they come with an authentication certificate signed in boots' own hand as well as his signature laser etched on the handle.


Limited edition you say? I'll take 4!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Missy said:


> Has it been endorsed by a coffee celebrity? If so yes please I'll buy 2, but only if they are £150 or more each...
> 
> I had no idea people were so divided, I assumed more people drank a variety of roast levels.


Does Callum from @foundrycoffeeroasters.com count ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Missy said:


> I had no idea people were so divided, I assumed more people drank a variety of roast levels.


I perhaps have my limits when it comes to degree of roast (so long as I get sweetness & origin isn't obliterated) but I do find it a bit sad when people say, "lighter roasts do this/darker roasts do that". Coffee is a human made beverage, it doesn't do anything, it is the product of what we do...if what you do for one doesn't work for the other, then change what you are doing.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> I perhaps have my limits when it comes to degree of roast (so long as I get sweetness & origin isn't obliterated) but I do find it a bit sad when people say, "lighter roasts do this/darker roasts do that". Coffee is a human made beverage, it doesn't do anything, it is the product of what we do...if what you do for one doesn't work for the other, then change what you are doing.


Agree , it's where one's limits of, or tolerance to , degree of roast , that tends to split people's preferences. Plus how your drinking it , adding milk will always add sweetness and that is 100 percent absolutely fine to . When we talk about coffees and roast we aren;t always to the same drink ( if the same bean ) . Anyway I have had some drinkable SO from Costr recently and some not so drinkable from roasters and places I would hope to be better . Keep drinking , keep tasting , keep trying stuff .


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Does Callum from @foundrycoffeeroasters.com count ?


No, he doesn't count. Especially not after he almost killed my E10 Master at an event today! Still, he did redeem himself by being a top quality coffee pro for the rest of the day. Jesus, dialling a Robur E is not easy when it's the first time you ever used it, adjust the grind size, purge about 50g coffee, test and repeat about 10 times.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Wow half a kilo to dial in? It's a beast of a grinder but that retention is a killer.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Missy said:


> Fascinating that none of you can imagine me liking it both ways...


Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....

Must resist.... Must resist.....


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

bad man!


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