# Coffey shop v home coffee



## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

Hi i have a classic and eurek migon and my coffee don't seem to be great

I normally get about 28g out of a 16 g shot and using rave Signature Blend

When im in the coffee shop they do it really fast don't weigh it and just turn the machine on

The coffee comes out good normaly better than home coffee


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

You'll need to be more specific with your issue to get any meaningful advice


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

How much do you think the grinder and machine in the shop costs compared to a classic and mignon?

Not saying you cant get good coffee from that combo, but these machines are set up to run multiple shots all day.

How long is it taking to get your 29g out ? Have you tried going longer or shorter to find the taste you like?


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

What coffee shops are we talking about? Costa and the like or somewhere half decent?


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

Just they dont seem to put no effort into making coffee its the machine i no but are they programmed to stop when the shot is done?

I like my coffee weaker rather than really strong

About 30 seconds but ive not been timeing it no more got a bit lazt with it TBH

And how much do there machine and grinders cost in them shops


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

Costa ive been useing as its a 5 min walk from my house


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Oh dear!


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Presume you drink with milk if you don't like it strong? If so are you steaming milk to the correct temp?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ironcross13 said:


> I like my coffee weaker rather than really strong


Then maybe pull longer than 28g from 16g? That ratio is setting you up for a fairly strong shot.


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

I only drink Americano with i litttle milk,

How do you pull longer?

Just leave it on longer


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## roaringboy (Jun 14, 2014)

Keep at it - you can certainly make better coffee than Costa with the combo you have!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Maybe up to around 32g watch for the blonding of the shot.

But you also have to bare in mind that the classic is not temperature stable. Many people 'temperature surf' in order to nail their shots.

Great (as in much, much better than costa) coffee is achieveable from the classic but it takes time and patience to nail your technique.

Honestly tho if you only drink long blacks then considering a aeropress or other brewed method may do you better in the long run.


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## tictok (Dec 1, 2013)

Hiya

How fine are you grinding?

How long does it take you to extract the 28g?

How consistent / even is your tamping?

How fresh are your beans?

Is you machine always the same temp / pressue?

There're a lot of variables.

I currently also use a Mignon grinder, and Rave Signature fairy regularly (nearly as often as their Italian Job). However I don't use a Gaggia Classic.

May ratio tends to be 18 or 19g in the basket with approx 28g - 30g extraction - depends how quick I am turning the thing off.

I don't know how consistent Mignon grinders are when comparing them to each other, but I run mine between 4.5 and 5 on the grind setting... probably closer to 5. It does vary though between roasts. Too fine and I find the Mignon starts to clump too much and then doesn't extract well. I'm happy where I have it... still needs a decent tamp but nothing too hard.

I started trying to 'wing-it' without measureing extraction etc... didn't take long for my shots to go down hill (without realising I was extracting far too little) - so have now gone back to measuring most days, instant improvement.

On an average day I think my shots easily beat most high-street chain coffee shop. On a good day I think my shots are fantastic.

I think the key is to make as many of the variables as consistent as possible, then tweak just one at a time... if it makes an improvement go with it and make a different or bigger adjustment the next time around. If it makes things worse it's easy to roll back if you've just tweaked one thing at a time.

//EDIT: from what I understand Raves Signature blend works better with milk. I tend to drink flat whites... whilst I find it okay for Shots on thier own I've not tried an Americano with it.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Very good post by ticktock, variables are key.

The mignon dial just has a sticker randomly stuck on, they bare no common relation to the grind.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ironcross13 said:


> I only drink Americano with i litttle milk,
> 
> How do you pull longer?
> 
> Just leave it on longer


Keep to your 16g dose, run the shot until you have 32g to maybe 40g in the cup (pick a weight & stick to it until you have tried grind adjuustments) in 25-35 seconds, adjust the grind finer until the flavour improves. If at a good flavour it is still too strong, coarsen up the grind a little and try a heavier shot still (keeping to a similar shot time all along).


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Have you tried other beans? It may be that Rave Sig just isn't to your tastes as a long black. Maybe try a lighter roast?


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## jjprestidge (Oct 11, 2012)

I don't know Rave, but I'm guessing it's darker coffee than I use in the shop? If that's the case,

I would try a larger dose pulled fairly short (say 18.5 in 30 out) as one of your main enemies with darker roasts is over extraction.

JP


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

ironcross13 said:


> Just they dont seem to put no effort into making coffee its the machine i no but are they programmed to stop when the shot is done?
> 
> And how much do there machine and grinders cost in them shops


Part of seeming to put no effort in is that they pull more shots in a day than most home users do in a month or even a year. They've got it all sussed and all the kit set up. Grinder-wise they're using a Super Jolly or equivalent at the very least. So easily 3x the price of a Mignon. Tamping will be consistent due to the sheer number of times they've done it (muscle memory). The machines cost thousands of pounds and might have 6-litre boilers running off 3-Phase electric so temperature is consistent. Steam power will be far in excess of what a Classic produces and there's no waiting for boilers to heat/cool. And yes, many commercial machines stop the shot automatically.

That said, it's still possible to get bad coffee in a place like Costa or St*rbucks, and with decent fresh beans, and good technique, you can do better with a Classic and Mignon than a lazy half-trained high street barista, as many on this site can testify. But it can be fiddly getting consistency with kit at this level.


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## AussieEx (Jul 10, 2013)

hotmetal said:


> That said, it's still possible to get bad coffee in a place like Costa or St*rbucks, and with decent fresh beans, and good technique, you can do better with a Classic and Mignon than a lazy half-trained high street barista, as many on this site can testify. But it can be fiddly getting consistency with kit at this level.


It is more than possible. It is almost inevitable! It's got far more to do with the skill and dedication of the barista (and that includes understanding the beans and dialling them in) than the £5K set-up being used.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

I went to costa yesterday... Basically when i go shopping with Mrs Burns, she likes to banish me to costa so i dont put lots of things in the trolley, stamp my feet and cry.

The coffee is disgusting, i watched the young girl whack together a latte for me, the thing that really hit me was the state of the portafilters.... Dont think they are washed all day... And the milk jugs were disgusting, hard crispy yellow milk on the outside... The final drink was a 15 litre latte that barely tasted off coffee... All off thousands of pounds worth of equipment...

then theres me with £500 worth of machine and grinder, a £7.50 bag of coffee, £5 set of scales, £35 tamper, and a whole forum of coffee friends behind me and my coffee knocks the socks off of them...

Stick at it OP, you will get it nailed soon enough.  its well worth it... I joined here last year as a tassimo owner.


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

tictok said:


> Hiya
> 
> 1.How fine are you grinding?
> 
> ...


1.Quite fine

2.Ive not been counting i will start again

3.very consistent I would say

4.i was useing some i had in the freezer for a few months ( how long can you freeze for?)

5.dont no how to check temp or pressure


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies guys

I think ive got lazy useing frozen beans and not timing my shots

Ive just received my new fresh beans today









Mocha java

Wahroonga (going to try first)

Indian monsooned malabar

So try to get 40g in 25-30 sec then adjust the grind to get less in the same time and see how i like the taste

What is temp surfing?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The Classic cycles through a range of temps as it turns on and off its boiler. Temp surfing is not an exact science but involves flushing the group so the boiler is filled with cold water, then waiting for the boiler hearing light to go out (or ready light to come on, I can't remember which way around it is with the classic) then waiting 'X' seconds then pulling your shot at this point. If you do this the same each time you should have repeatability in your routine.

If you want to know exactly when your machine is at the right temp then buy a k-type thermometer from ebay and measure the temp of the water as it emerges from the shower screen.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Having read this thread end to end I'd wager that some basic training will make a world of difference

Where are you based?


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

Yeah I'm i could give this a try..

Manchester, is there any good training vids online


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## ironcross13 (Mar 27, 2014)

??


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ironcross13 said:


> ??


Have you read this thread ..

Point 10 link to a clip that will help you pull a shot and temp surf...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3858-So-you%92ve-just-bought-your-Gaggia-Classic

why weigh your coffee?






search using Google and youtube....


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