# Smokey Brewtus



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I came home from work expecting the machine to be on so went to check the timer, nudged it slightly and voila - power. It got up to 93 awfully quick though so it must have been on and gone off. Next time I turned to check the plug was smoking.

View attachment 6423


Pulled it out and some of the plastic had started melting. Whether this was down to the plug being slightly loose in the converter i'm not sure, but the plug is now a bit gammy and has bit of shit on one of the pins that won't come off:

View attachment 6424


Is this safe to use? Or should I get it checked?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Might be an idea to switch out the lead to a uk spec one, fairly easy to do I can check with rob about warranty and doing that


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Why are using a converted plug? You could just cut the 2pin off the end of the lead and wire an ordinary plug top on to the lead .

is there any damage to the converter and if so can you tell if it was the neutral or live connection.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It's a Spanish machine and came with a converter so just used that as was. It came get a bit 'wobbly' with the plug in the converter in the timer though.

I'm happy to just cut the existing plug off and put a UK plug on but there's no risk of damage to the machine if I do that now?


----------



## Matstermatt (Apr 22, 2014)

It looks like it is a poor connection between the pin of the plug and the socket. This is quite common on things like multi plug adaptors where you have an increased load. You need to get a good connection and the only way to guarantee that is with a correct uk plug and socket. To me (as an electrician) the damage looks like it should be restricted to the plug only. Take it back to sound cable and put a correctly fused plug on the end.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Cut it off, wire a new 3 pin plug on....I absolutely hate these converters and I wish no one used them. Even though they are certified as safe by the various electrical bodies (depending on which one you have), my personal view is they are dangerous and their use should be banned..All the heat will have been within the converter as the pin was probably not making contact/arcing and drawing lots of power to make heat. obviously the converter/adaptor thing should be binned and not used again.

I also keep banging on to Espresso machine manufacturers to start using CC19/16 type sockets/plugs like on computers) so we can get rid of hard wired leads and have proper in country cables...this really pisses me off that only Bezzera does this and only on some machines.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Glad to hear it was no worse than a crud-covered plug!


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> It's a Spanish machine and came with a converter so just used that as was. It came get a bit 'wobbly' with the plug in the converter in the timer though.
> 
> I'm happy to just cut the existing plug off and put a UK plug on but there's no risk of damage to the machine if I do that now?


No there is no risk, if anything you will be improving things a hell of a lot because the machine will now have a fuse to protect things. Give your timer a good look over too ,as the heat may have travelled and caused some other damage, you should be ok just have a look to see if there is any discoloured plastic on it.

For whats it worth I would try and put a good quality plug top on the end of the lead as there is a fair bit of load going through a coffee machine.

IMO dura plug make the best plug tops

https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/PortablePower/duraplug/Rubberplugs/Pages/PF133.aspx


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Can I buy them on the high street?


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Only if you've got a B&Q on the high Street?


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I could get to a b&q. Is it worth the extra effort for a DURA PLUG?


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I could get to a b&q.


Just cut one off something less important.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> Just cut one off something less important.


TV, laptop....


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Tough choice, the laptop will last until the morning on battery so I'd go for that. Make sure it's not a moulded plug


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> I could get to a b&q. Is it worth the extra effort for a DURA PLUG?


don't go without your coffee just for the sake of a plug top , use whatever you have.

In answer to your question about whether a dura plug is worth the extra money/hassle . Yes it is .

If you can not find one anywhere let me know and I will send you one .


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Surely a plug is just a plug?


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Daren said:


> Surely a plug is just a plug?


I've never had a problem with a plug, they seem fairly straight forward. fair enough if it was being used in extreme conditions then it might be worth the extra cash... Hold on.. did you move back to Glasgow....? As you were....


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Can't find a Dura Plug nearby, it'll be a Maplin one for the time being but if you have a spare one kicking about that'd be grand, will swing a donation somewhere if you like


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Daren said:


> Surely a plug is just a plug?


I'm intrigued about what could be so good


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Daren said:


> Surely a plug is just a plug?


Yes you are right a plug is a plug , just some are better than others . Was just trying to be helpful.

coffee machines are a significant load , so in my opinion I would advise to use a good quality plugtop .

only trying to help


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I'm intrigued about what could be so good


Me to! It'll either work or it won't surly? They will all have to be safety tested?


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Do you know if there is an edmundsons or CEF near you ?


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Sorry guys was trying to be helpful , I wasn't trying to make a mountain out of a molehill .

Pm me and I will sort you one out.


----------



## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Dodgy Spanish wiring for sure! Believe me it's not uncommon.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Do you know if there is an edmundsons or CEF near you ?


There's an Edmundsons aye, i'll try and go there after work


----------



## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Also, remember that anytime you use a plug adapter, you are creating resistance so it could have overheated because of that - especially if there is a dirty connection.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Sorry guys was trying to be helpful , I wasn't trying to make a mountain out of a molehill .
> 
> Pm me and I will sort you one out.


I appreciate you making a recommendation, just genuinely curious about why they're better


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> There's an Edmundsons aye, i'll try and go there after work


If you send me your details I will check to see if they have one,and if they have i will have it sitting on the counter for you . Saves me having to worry about postage.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sorry to be a pain the arse but CEF is closer, Glasgow North branch, or the EE 33 Houston St


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> I appreciate you making a recommendation, just genuinely curious about why they're better


Me to, I wondered what makes them better (I wasn't having a pop). Genuinely interested


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

+Dont take it personally TheCatlinux, we are a sarcasic bunch a times and your help is appreciated.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> I appreciate you making a recommendation, just genuinely curious about why they're better


We live in a world of pound land QD etc with a lot of cheap imports from china ,

like a coffee machine is just a coffee machine . But some are different/better than others .

A coffee machine at it heart has a heating element possibly 2 to 3 kW this equates to 8.5 to 12.5 amps .

A plug top is designed for 13amps maximum load , coupled to this your machine has already shown to that there is a significant load going through its plug connection, and what a poorly contacting plug can do by melting out the plug that shipped with the machine.

All I was trying to do was to encourage you to put a decent quality plug top on as a replacement , as I couldn't explain to you what a 'decent' plug top was I thought I would recommend one too you.

as a footnote , I guess with all the help I have received on this forum and advice about coffee .I just wanted to help out in a way about something I do know a little about. A Kind of Karma thing .


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> We live in a world of pound land QD etc with a lot of cheap imports from china ,
> 
> like a coffee machine is just a coffee machine . But some are different/better than others .
> 
> ...


Coffeechap speaks the truth, please take anything I say with a pinch of salt. If there are plugs available that will help make my machine less likely to burn my house down then I'm all ears! This forum is brimming over with knowledge than spans so far beyond coffee and I'm all up for learning.


----------



## Beanben (Aug 12, 2014)

Not sure but could work.?!


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What could work? Brought this thread back from the dead...


----------



## Hoffmonkey (Apr 28, 2014)

I looked at those plugs, and I have to say, they do ooze quality. Interesting to hear a viewpoint that challenges our state of mind. Thanks TheCatLinux. Having had my tumble dryer fuse itself to the highly suspect old extension lead, I am pretty sure it's all worthwhile making sure components are able to take the load.

As an aside, roughly how expensive is it in leccy to make our favourite cuppa (ok two cups one for me, one for the wife) given a twenty minute warmup and ten minutes messing about with extraction and steaming?


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Around ten to twenty pence !


----------



## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Thecatlinux said:


> Around ten to twenty pence !


Does that mean 60p to £1.20 per hour then if the machine is mostly idle?


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Hope not otherwise my machine costs me an extra 150 a month in leccy


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Take your watts from the machine, usually on the back or inside on a sticker, Say 3000 watts, that's max, so if your leaving it on then it will cycle meaning an average of 1500 watts.

1500 watts / 1000 = 1.5kWh

1 Hours use = 1.5kWh x kWh cost (Bill will tell you) say 50p = £0.75 per hour.

I think that's right!


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

froggystyle said:


> Take your watts from the machine, usually on the back or inside on a sticker, Say 3000 watts, that's max, so if your leaving it on then it will cycle meaning an average of 1500 watts.
> 
> 1500 watts / 1000 = 1.5kWh
> 
> ...


I can't say I've measured it. But I'm sure my machine only cycles for a few seconds each minute and a half (ish). So it's only heating at around 10% of the time! therefore averaging around 300 watts. Make it 500 if it's used a couple of times. (And it makes the maths easy). That equates to about 25p per hour!


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Yeah never timed mine either, but that sounds more likely.

I dont think it peaks all the way through the heating cycle anyway, just the very first second the heater kicks in, then it may drop a little, then of course all the way when the heater turns off, but a little may continue to power the system.

I have one of those voltage things, may watch it later whilst it cycles though a couple of times.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

1 unit of electricity is equal to 1kw in 1 hour.

i would have thought most machines are close to the 2kw and as pointed out after getting to temperature the machine wouldn't be heating , the initial start and 1 or 2 cups drawn off in the first hour I would say the machine would be heating for approx 20 mins in that hour (a third of the time) . The average price of a unit dependant on tariff is 18p

18p x2 (Kwhr)=36p 36/3 (20minutes) =12p. Give or take a few pennies.

alowances can be made for ambient temperature ,temperature of supply water, heat loss of tank , but as these are so many variables which would alter on a daily basis I would say on average about 10-12 pence per hour.


----------



## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I get the feeling here we are all trying to justify to ourselves that it's actually relatively cheap to leave our machines on all day!!


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I give up monitoring electric use in my house when kids leave every light on, tv and pcs turned on 24/7, so the coffee machine on for a few hours day is nothing.


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Makes me feel like Victor Meldrew! Still drives me nuts when they're home and my kids are 25 and 23!


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> I give up monitoring electric use in my house when kids leave every light on, tv and pcs turned on 24/7, so the coffee machine on for a few hours day is nothing.


I know that feeling and I can remember also my parents always asking 'who's left the light on' and now i Hear myself saying the same things.

Do like the idea of the new machines having a stand by function after a couple of hours , it's quite stressful having to get up from the couch to turn the coffee machine off on an evening.


----------



## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Rob666 said:


> Makes me feel like Victor Meldrew!


Time for a forum avatar?


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Done!

13 grumps!


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Do like the idea of the new machines having a stand by function after a couple of hours , it's quite stressful having to get up from the couch to turn the coffee machine off on an evening.


Get a timer (or a Wemo)


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Or a machine with a built in power saving function.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Or a machine with a built in power saving function.


Which you have said several times is one of your least favourite features?


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Wemo is on the cards if it does what I think it can do ,


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Wemo is on the cards if it does what I think it can do ,


You need a decent WiFi signal in the place you're going up put it. Mine didn't work properly at all in my old place but it works like a charm in the new gaff.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> You need a decent WiFi signal in the place you're going up put it. Mine didn't work properly at all in my old place but it works like a charm in the new gaff.


Wifi if coverage is not an issue , might hold of for a bit as there is rumours of apple integration for more supported hardware in IOS 8 , I have a load of lightwave RF stuff kicking about which will do part of the job i want but control away from the house requires access via them , whereas I would prefer direct access , I have been toying with the idea of turning the machine on via text message , but I may wait till I redo my kitchen before I do that.


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> Wifi if coverage is not an issue , might hold of for a bit as there is rumours of apple integration for more supported hardware in IOS 8 , I have a load of lightwave RF stuff kicking about which will do part of the job i want but control away from the house requires access via them , whereas I would prefer direct access , I have been toying with the idea of turning the machine on via text message , but I may wait till I redo my kitchen before I do that.


From what you are saying Wemo would do all that (and it had an IOS app). Its a timer and/or a switch which you can control away from your house over 3g/4g - no need for text. The latest one also records electricity usage.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Which you have said several times is one of your least favourite features?


Least favourite is a gross understatement, but, I'm at home pretty much most of the time so I want the machine ready when I want a coffee not in however long it takes the machine to warm up, although it does get to temp fast. From what has been said here some people would find that feature attractive, and as the Sage uses a "soft start" style button rather than a traditional switch you can't use a Wemo with one anyway, I don't know how the Vesuvius works with the on/off switch so this could also apply to that.


----------

