# Help/advice please ?



## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Can anyone offer some advice please?

I picked up this lovely machine (Classico/Ariete) from the forum last year, and have had nothing but fun, trying to 'learn' the basics and craft!

Over the last couple of days, I noticed a feint hissing coming from inside. I thought it may be the pressure release valve, so opened up expecting to do a little manipulation to relieve, or to remove and clean up (assuming the o ring may be buggered). The PRV looked great and was working well, so looked around the other side and saw the image attached (mineral build up?). Couldn't see any steam, but took the sides off to look further and confirm. Yep, very small stream of steam leaking from the circled area.

*Question*: is this fairly common? Am I able to fix this in situ? Is it as simple as trying to unscrew the element part, clean the thread, and Reposition using some sort of sealant/ptfe tape?

My worry is about damaging/twisting the copper boiler, as the element part is brass (it seems?)

Or, could it be filed down and sealed somehow - although this sounds like a bodge approach - unless the alternative is a new boiler!

help please, I'm pretty handy, but don't want to make it worse by taking the wrong approach.

thanks in advance - I'll ask my wife to give a foot massage to the best answer. Can't say she'll agree, but it's the thought that counts ??


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Probably a Teflon gasket, although might be an O Ring, although being a Fracino, I imagine they used a Teflon gasket.

You need to get the element out. So a very large socket, impact driver (air or electric). You might have to remove the boiler, depends on the anchoring points and how hard it is to get out (normally they are seized in good). Looking at the mess I would imagine it could need a good deascale. Boiler removal and impact gun is the gold standard. You might try and shock it off with a wrench, but you may well damage the boiler/fittings as they are usually on real tight and stuck after so many years. Then use a new gasket after cleaning the fittings....I doubt they used thread sealant as well....but you never know. You should ask Fracino as evidence of thread sealant may be something used by a previous owner.

That looks like it's been leaking for quite a while....a lot more than a few days.

P.S. You need to use better water with the machine.

P.P.S The other ideas are no good, won't work.


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Thanks so much @DavecUK

I'll move it to the garage for 'deconstruction'. Will do a descale first though. Only ever had Tesco Ashbeck bottled water for the 6months or so I've had it (apart from the RO route, is there a better bottled choice?).

I hope this is the only issue, and can be easily rectified, the rest looks really clean on initial inspection.

time to get mucky... and thanks again!


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

@Achrys this thread should sort you regarding bottled water...
https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/45543-water-for-boilers-amp-manual-brewing/


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

********** said:


> @Achrys this thread should sort you regarding bottled water...
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/45543-water-for-boilers-amp-manual-brewing/


 Great, thanks @********** I looked at the chart, and it seems a 2:1 mix with Asda smart pice water should balance it. ??

Now I either need to find a deep 36mm impact socket (to avoid crushing the high temp stat) and wrench to fit my compressor (more toys for the cave), or visit a mechanic friend with some biscuits in hand - as the element appears to be accessible without full removal. Oh, and contact Fracino for that gasket in their Cherub exploded diagram (HEA165).

Never realised how miserable I'd be without my machine... ?

Really appreciate all the support on this forum ?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Does the stat not withdraw ? Look carefully at the element terminals, the L/H one looks slightly brown (insulator)


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

El carajillo said:


> Does the stat not withdraw ? Look carefully at the element terminals, the L/H one looks slightly brown (insulator)


 I wasn't sure how the stat was attached, does it just pull out? Assuming if so, it may require a good tug. I was a little perplexed, as it's listed as another part in the exploded diagram - but didn't want to force anything just yet.

Will have another look at the terminals now - does browning mean it's about to go? Or just years of use, like a patina? The element was working okay I think (apart from the leaky seal), before I started to dismantle.

think I might dismantle the E61 whilst the machine is out of commission for a bit, at least give some bits a good clean and bath!


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Apologies @El carajillo , I've just seen that the stat is threaded, from an old post on here:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/20467-fracino-cherub-stone-cold/?do=embed&comment=256547&embedComment=256547&embedDo=findComment

At least I don't have to worry about a 'deeeep' impact socket now ?

learning all the time... ?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I think you will find both items unscrew, the stat and the stud it is attached to. (GENTLY) Ref the terminals, it does not mean it is going but it has seen considerable work/ use.

Check it carefully when it is out and has been cleaned. DO NOT GET THE TERMINALS WET..

As was pointed out above, it has been leaking for a long time, the corrosion/ scale will be all along the element thread helping to bind it. Take care when removing.


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Quick update with visuals:

Finally got round to taking the boiler out, then the element. I had echo's of @DavecUK in my head saying 'Don't cheat, get the boiler out - Gold Standard'. ?

Anyway, was pleasantly surprised at how clean it was inside, and the element too (phew). Assuming it was well descaled in the past, and that leak was a legacy issue just not approached. No problem. A bit of elbow grease and that element has come up nicely.

Happy with the internal inspection, and now have it in Calcinet (only half, due to the container size I have). 
PTFE gaskets looks like a 57x42x3mm with about a 1mm overhang should fit. Should I use a food grade silicone grease on the thread to aid removal next time? Or avoid totally and just tighten with the gasket? Any advice appreciated - my first machine and dismantle!

Also, can the pressure safety valve (and OPV) be removed easily from the boiler before I submerge in cleaner? Was wondering if the cleaner will damage any internals to them? (O-Ring's/seals? Etc)

didn't know if it needed professional re-assembly due to that safety tag attached?

sorry for the questions, just thought it would be helpful if anyone else was approaching a complete dismantle too ??

cant wait to get this thing back on the road. Every day feels like a week!!!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Boilers clean, your done there no more to do.

Clean up the heating element thread ....A better way might be to put some PTFE tape on it 6 or 7 turns, won't seal it but will make dismantling easier. Product like MolyKote can eventually wash out of coarse threads....as they are always bathed in water with that gasketing system used. Clean up the gasket mating surfaces well and a smear or molykote on the gasket surfaces cant hurt.

If the safety valve works, leave it alone, and you can simply, remove circlip and clean the seat of the vacuum breaker and replace the O ring with an FMK one of the right size if required. You may not need to remove it because you have access to the inside of the boiler at the moment. Never overdo the work on the machine as you might introduce problems or fix what don't need fixing..


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Thanks Dave - really appreciate the advice. All cleaned up - mating surface of the boiler was a little pitted where the issue was (I'm the pics), so I've very lightly sanded down after removing all the mineral mess. I think a little of the grease around the gasket will be a good idea. 
Agree, all safety valves have been left alone - as they work fine (and are at least serviceable once back in place). 
so a good flush, clean and reassemble once that gasket is found and delivered.

My wife's let me back in from the garage now... at least I'm not dismantling the motorbike in the kitchen. ?


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## Achrys (Jun 17, 2019)

Just wanted to thank you guys for your support. So great knowing there's a wealth of knowledge that people are willing to share - for the love of coffee.

I finally found the time to get it all cleaned up and put back together. Now I'm running it without the casing and watching like a hawk for leaks, as the heating cycles. Seems to be okay so far. The only thing I forgot, was to roast some lovely fresh beans in the meantime! D'oh. Just isn't the same with the cruddy supermarket bought option.

If there's anyway I can help anyone taking apart a cherub/Classico etc - even if its with just photos, then I'd be happy to payback.

I've added some pics, just in case anyone is interested.

?


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