# First Espresso Machine...utterly confused!



## m__k (Oct 24, 2011)

Hi guys,

I've been a coffee lover for a while now (drip machine) and want to got for an espresso machine now but am not sure which one to go for.

Everyone seems to be full of praises for the Gaggia classic as a starter machine, but my questions are:

1) Are all basic Gaggia's the same (classic / cubika / pure etc.)

2) I've been looking at DeLonghi models for a bit - how are the Gaggia's different? and is any basic DeLonghi worth considering (I quite like the EC330s)?

3) Will I really need a new grinder (as I already have a basic blade grinder which I use for my drip machine)

In Short - with a budget of £180ish what should I get!!!


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Hi, welcome to the forum!

To answer your questions;

Not all Gaggia models are the same - the Classic is the only one out of the common domestic models to have a 3-way solenoid (same as commercial machines) and is why the classic is so popular.

I couldn't tell you about the Delonghi machines, but chances are they won't have the 3way solenoid and they will probably use a pressurised basket (these are aimed at people using pre-ground supermarket style coffee)

You will need a new grinder to get the best from fresh beans and from your machine. The grinder is almost more important in that sense - blade grinders are massively inconsistent in their grind size and also generate a lot of heat whilst chopping things up which is bad for the coffee.

Your budget is a bit low, but you might get lucky and find some bargains! Get on ebay and look for burr grinders - iberital mc2/ascaso grinders are great for entry level espresso, or you could get a cheap commercial grinder if you're lucky.

My suggestion would be to spend money on a decent grinder first, use that for your filter coffee until you can get a Gaggia Classic, again ebay is your best bet.

Hope this helps!

Michael

Sent from my Galaxy S using Tapatalk


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

With your budget I would get a second hand gaggia classic and a porlex hand grinder which will do perfectly fine until you can afford a decent electric burr grinder similar to the ones Michael suggested.

I owned a delonghi ec310 previously, it's not a bad machine but it's very limited. It's aimed at the no nonsense, not fussed about quality market. You can get a fairly ok coffee every time, it's consistent. If you are happy with that then go down that route and continue using your blade grinder as there is no point in spending more money than needed if you are not interested in learning or improving.

If you are really interested in constantly improving and a prepared for starting out with one good coffee in every 7 or 8 bad ones then go for the classic, it's a big learning curve but within a couple of months you will be pouring really decent shots far better than you could manage with a delonghi. But just be prepared, in the long run its going to cost you quite a bit more.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

One thing to note about the delonghi machines is that I believe they all have pretty much the same internals, so I don't think it's worth going for the more expensive ones just for the nicer casing. They all use cheap components and won't last like a gaggia classic will.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I appreciate your dilemma, and the advice already given here is sound. Your budget of £180 is a significant sum to most of us, and non-coffee-enthusiasts would consider it an insanely large sum to make cups of coffee!

At the end of the day it comes down to this:

Most expensive espresso machine you can buy + no/poor grinder = no chance of good espresso

Cheap machine + good grinder + good fresh beans = a fair chance of good espresso. (And that chance improves dramatically as you get experience)

I think that what you need to bear in mind is that a lot of the machines on sale in non-specialist outlets are sold for people who aren't 'into' espresso. But they look nice and shiny on the kitchen bench - and non-coffee drinking friends and will think that they are experts!

But the second-hand Classic and hand grinder route will give you the potential for some great pulls.

If I was starting again from scratch, with the benefit of hindsight I'd blow my budget on an Iberital MC2 grinder, an Aeropress, a set of scales and a wide variety of fresh beans. And I'd start to experiment with the different varieties whilst I saved up for an espresso machine. That's probably NOT what you want to hear, and I really do understand anyone's lust to get straight into an espresso machine. If that's your state of mind, then the Classic/hand grinder route will not see you wrong.

Welcome to the world of insecurity/indecision that inflicts us all when we upgrade.


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Gaggia Baby's have the 3 way solenoid too.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

As stated above. If you spend all your budget on a machine, you better be ready to get the credit card out almost immediately because you WILL want to upgrade your grinder as soon as you start using the new machine.

Grinders are surprisingly expensive when you first start looking at them but they're so unbelievably important to getting a good coffee out. As soon as you feel the weigh of a decent grinder and hear it grinding you'll realise why there's such a difference in price between you're typical Deloghi from John Lewis and any of the ones mentioned above. My Virtuoso was £175 new and my Gaggia Classic was only £120 from EBay 2nd hand. The good thing is, you can spend the money knowing you've got that grinder problem sorted and you probably won't have to worry about it again for another 10 years.

The hand grinder is certainly an option that will be a cheap way of proving to yourself that it's well worth the money to invest in a good electric one.


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## m__k (Oct 24, 2011)

Cheers for that guys, some really helpful tips, thinking of going for a vv basic DeLonghi for now or if I can find a secondhand classic off ebay.

Speaking of grinders now as you've distracted me for a bit; what's a good place to get these as amazon/ebay seem to have very few Iberitals. And would you recommend a Saeco or Gaggia burr grinder? Also with a hand grinder what's the key - should it just say "burr" or any recommendations?

I'm guessing the Krups / DeLonghi burr grinders aren't that recommended due to control settings over the grind?

Sorry for the volume of questions guys!


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

The krups/delonghi burr grinders won't give a consistent grind, as a result you will get channeling which is where water finds a quick route through the coffee and not as it should, pick up all the flavours and oils, resulting in a bitter flavour that lacks in taste. Porlex hand grinders are a good start for around £30. Otherwise you are looking at least £100 for a decent 2nd hand grinder. As stressed in previous posts this is by far the most important piece of equipment over everything else. A decent 2nd hand classic can be bought off eBay sub £100 so I would go for that option as well as the hand grinder. That should leave you with enough to buy other accessories you will need such as a tamper, milk jug and some quality beans.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

If i were you i would spend it all on the espresso machine and hold off for the grinder until you can afford one. Most coffee shops and websites like Has Bean will grind the beans for you. If you just buy a grinder you wont be able to make any espresso.

Regards

Chris


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

xXDaedalusXx said:


> If i were you i would spend it all on the espresso machine and hold off for the grinder until you can afford one. Most coffee shops and websites like Has Bean will grind the beans for you. If you just buy a grinder you wont be able to make any espresso.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chris


You could do this, and Chris is right... it would get you making espresso.

But I'll bet you any money you'd be back on this forum within days asking why your espresso is thin and runny, doesn't have the creamy crema that you've seen on youtube videos, and tastes so bitter.

There are always multiple options and opinions. I'd go with raising your budget to £200... spend £100 each on a grinder and an espresso machine, second hand, which will require patience to find but you'll eventually get them for that price. If you need the equipment right now, you'll struggle to get both for your budget and I'd say go for the grinder first... particularly since you've said that you're a drip coffee lover.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> You could do this, and Chris is right... it would get you making espresso.
> 
> But I'll bet you any money you'd be back on this forum within days asking why your espresso is thin and runny, doesn't have the creamy crema that you've seen on youtube videos, and tastes so bitter.
> 
> There are always multiple options and opinions. I'd go with raising your budget to £200... spend £100 each on a grinder and an espresso machine, second hand, which will require patience to find but you'll eventually get them for that price. If you need the equipment right now, you'll struggle to get both for your budget and I'd say go for the grinder first... particularly since you've said that you're a drip coffee lover.


Thats what im doing at the moment because the Dualit grinder i have is not up for the job. Can i ask why you think he will be asking why his espresso is thin, runny with no crema? im using pre ground from has bean on my gaggia classic and the shot comes out perfect, with a creamy crema in about 25 seconds.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Simply because every time I've used pre-ground, and every time anyone I know has used pre-ground, it has come out crap. It's been fairly common question on here with people using pre-ground rather than whole beans. Once the beans are ground they lose much of their gases very quickly... a matter of minutes and as far as I know certainly not longer than an hour. These gases do several jobs.

(1) they help protect the coffee from the attacking oxygen

(2) they contain aromas that are responsible for a good portion of the flavours

(3) they are one of the primary components of crema, which in my experience is an essential component of a good espresso, although others disagree.

I must admit I'm very surprised that you're able to get a perfect espresso using pre-ground... even if it is from Has Bean. Have you compared the taste of your espresso with one that is ground on demand?

Like I say, there are no absolutes in coffee... differing opinions are great. But I do think your experience is not typical, Chris.


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

I opened one of the bags as soon as it arrived this morning (had no coffee), it was the Blake blend. I pulled the shot and it came out perfect and tasted good too. on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being tasted like beans that have just being ground) i would of gave it a 9. But, i did open it straight away so, in a few days it will most definitely lose flavour, and i have four more bags to get through!

I agree pre ground is not as good as freshly ground beans but if he was to buy in small quantities it should be sufficient until he gets a decent grinder.

Regards

Chris


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Personal taste is all that counts


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## xXDaedalusXx (Oct 24, 2011)

I agree


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

MikeHag said:


> Simply because every time I've used pre-ground, and every time anyone I know has used pre-ground, it has come out crap.


That's my experience as well, Mike. I remember well the time recently when I made a mistake with a HasBean order and inadvertently got 250g of preground instead of whole beans. Confirmed my opinion that there's just no substitute for beans ground the instant before use. Got to admit, I'm glad it did, because otherwise I'd have been a bit upset about paying £500+ for a grinder!

And wasn't it just a few weeks ago we had a long discussion on here about whether gourmet roasters should 'lower' themselves to sell their coffee pre-ground?

But I totally agree that the important thing is personal satisfaction with the coffee that you're making. Quite simply, if it tastes good to you, then it IS good!


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## m__k (Oct 24, 2011)

Cheers guys! off to ebay for me to find me a grinder first!

appreciate all the advice


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