# Doser or Doserless for the home



## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

My research for a grinder continues.

From my research so far i am put off by dosers to the point that i have refused/not offered on a few very good and cheap grinders to date. The reason i am put off by them is that for a 10 or fewer coffees per day i cannot see the need for a doser. I also believe a doeser requires more faffing as you have to repeated flack that paddle and then clean it as you don't ant stale coffee hanging around. Then there is the grind retention issue.

Am i missing the good side to a doser? Are the above issues not as bad as they appear. The reason i ask is most grinders appear to have a doser, especially the cheaper commercial ones for sale second hand.

An example is the amount of second hand mazzers with a doser for sale are high, but without i have not seen many.

What's your opinion?


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## Callum_T (Dec 23, 2012)

Dosers on bigger commercial grinders help with de clumping - I'm happier to have a better grinder and deal with the doser and keep the cash in my wallet.

Doserless mazzer is quite staticky and clumpy apparently and the shoot is harder to sweep out the remove grounds that would otherwise go stale.

As coffeechap says there are plenty of grinders that aren't mazzer and that will do as good if not a better job.

Anyway my short attempt to cover everything won't suffice - go for the good old search through what's on here.

As for my grinder experience I had a MC2 and I now have an ex cafe modded SJ auto with some custom wiring. I run it doserless with a ghetto shoot and then take to the clumps with a cocktail stick.


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

I am by no means devoted to Mazzer that was just an example. I really like the Brazilia grinders too.

This was the reason for my post, there is a Brazilia for sale on here but i really wanted the doserless version.

Whats the issue with static? I am new to all of this so bear with me.


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## Callum_T (Dec 23, 2012)

Yeah my post was short so once read I probably came across as a c**t - I was just trying to bullet point and keep straight to the point.

Basically static is why grinds clump (there are other reasons I think) - but basically the doser will distribute the grinds from a grinder like a SJ evenly and of a fairly uniform density so messing with cocktail sticks isn't really needed.

To get a doserless grinder that will give grinds you don't have to mess with you start getting into the big money - so most mess with the dosers or cocktail sticks.

Feel like I'm waffling but basically although most would prefer doserless the doser has its advantages suppose you just need to get to grips with the grinder and you'll learn what works best for you.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Spukey, this is the dilemma many face! There is a grinder exactly the same as mine on eBay. The chap has them on every couple of weeks, but they are usually from the 1990,s and presumably well used. They go cheaply, probably under £100.

I know where mine came from, how much use it as had, and I think that's very important.

There are loads of grinders out there which are not as fashionable as the Mazzer, but will give a grind quality equal to it. More and more forum members are realising this now.


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

Yes i have seen them. Some grinders on ebay look poor. I am reluctant to buy from ebay as my knowledge is also poor, on here at least you have trust and the fact that a coffee enthusiast has owned prior.

What do those with dosers do to avoid stale coffee then? What is your ritual?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

ah the old doser and doserless conundrum!

The key point is price here, if you are prepared to mod your grinder or live with the doser then a second hand beauty at a great price is very realistic, take the brassilia that is currently listed on here, essentially that will do everything the the brasilia rr55 on demand will do as the burr set and motor are identical, both will produce lovely fluffy grinds everytime, however the 45 will always cost less than the 55 because of the doserless facility. The 55 although great can be prone to static and retention, dependent on where it is placed and proximity to other electrical sourses, and you do still have to use a brush to get the last bits of grind out (or the rubber egg poacher method) if you single dose, so it all invariably comes down to budget and preference. Some people actually enjoy the whole clack clack of the doser, indeed ask any of the anfim owner and they will tell you it is a pleasure on the caimano to dose.

Based on raw cost you will on average (but not always, ask Bubbajvegas about his rr55) pay a lot less for a doser model, you will also pay a lot less for a non mazzer grinder second hand, a great example of this is the rancilio md50 that i put on the deals thread yesterday, great commercial grinder, with a doser for £100 and i think it comes with a knock draw....

Always remember the doser is on these grinders for a commercial reason, i.e provide a measured dose straight into the portafilter from the doser chamber, however this can only be acheived accurately if the doser chamber is at least half full of coffee, which in the home environment renders the portion facility null and void.

If you have the budget get a doserless, if you like to tinker pay a lot less and modify get a doser.......


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## Southpaw (Feb 26, 2012)

Many doserless grinders appear to just drop the doser in favour of a funnel. In the grinders I've seen grind retention will be exactly the same but you can't sweep out all of them.


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

thanks for the replys so far, this forum is the friendliest and most informative place i have ever been to!

What are the modify options then?

How does the Brasilia mentioned compare to the mazzer range?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The issue with getting mazzers at a really cheap price is that you have to get in early, ones on ebay that have mazzer in the title will always get over £200 sometimes £350 and you will still need to clean and sort it out yourself. I recently snapped up a la cimbali magnum (75mm burr set), which is far supperior in grind quality to a mazzer sj or mini, i paid £90 for it, ok it was in rubbish order and did not have a hopper, which to most home users is irrelevant as they single dose, but once stripped and cleaned it is fab, ok i do spend a lot of time on the grinders and have maybe a little more know how than most, but essentially a grinder is just a motor (of varying power and spin rate) with a spindle and on the spindle is a set of burrs ( again of various sizes ) one fixed to the spindle that rotates and one floating on some form of carrier.

Now in general the bigger the motor and bigger the burrs, the better the quality of grind, bigger motors afford a slower spin speed which in turn reduces the heat of the grounds, cooler grinds taste better.

Anyway, with a little research into the specifications of a grinder before you buy it and going to see it working if you can, can put you in a great position to take a risk (as all second hand equipment carries a risk) on a cheap grinder. Many people spend in excess of £250 on a grinder i.e mignon or vario, but neither of those two grinders will get anywhere near to the quality of the grind from the Magnum that i paid £90 for (I except that space is always an issue and the magnum is a big grinder)

Sorry back to your queston the brassilia will totally stand up against a mazzer every day of the week


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Something else is the time you might have to stand at the grinder like a lemon holding the PF when using a slower doserless that doesn't have a PF holder. With a doser mill, you are free to go off and faff about with other stuff while it's grinding...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think the bottom line, is if either you are not scared to have a go (bearing in mind there are often loads of instructions on Youtube and the web) at modifications, or know someone who can help you, then you can grab a bargain with a doser on it. The equivalent doser models (RR45 v RR55) you will always pay a premium for, and suffer problems with the doserless one, but, doser can be a faff. It all depends how you as an individual perceive it!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Spukey, answer me a question. If I had sent you a pm, and said I had a 7 year old Super Jolly in really good condition, with a doser, would you still be thinking about it?

Of course you would not. you would have jumped in with both feet and be a happy little chappy! The RR45 has the same size burrs and is the equal to the SJ in every way, other than perhaps the casing. I am going to remove the 45 tonight if no one comes for it. I am not going to Ebay it but keep it until after the Grind Off, and then put it back up because I know just how good this is, especially when it is around £100 cheaper than an SJ


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

I understand what you mean dfk41.

Like is aid i am by no means Mazzer smitten, picking a grinder is much harder than a machine!

Spukey


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## Pdalowsky (Dec 31, 2012)

i was posed with this too, and after very helpful advice here went doserless, and must say for an infrequent coffee drinker it seems the way to go..

drinking 3-4 cups a day - a doser would be totally uncessary in my house


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I agree Pdalowsky, but you have a Mignon which is always doserless. the problem Spukey has, is if you upgrade to a commercial style grinder, then you have to accept the issues that go with it. It would be a little like buying a Tractor, then asking to have racing slicks fitted!


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Having had 3 different doserless grinders, I went to a doser SJ, and much prefer it. I single dose into the throat, and just thwack the grinder until all the grinds come out. Far more fluffy, clump free and consistent that any doserless I've used. It's a matter of horses for courses, and I like the involvement that comes with the doser. Don't dismiss using an un-modified doser until you've tried it.

I don't rate timed grinders, as I've yet to find one that's consistent in it's output, and think that individual dose weighing is the only sure way to consistency.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

vintagecigarman said:


> Having had 3 different doserless grinders, I went to a doser SJ, and much prefer it. I single dose into the throat, and just thwack the grinder until all the grinds come out. Far more fluffy, clump free and consistent that any doserless I've used. It's a matter of horses for courses, and I like the involvement that comes with the doser. Don't dismiss using an un-modified doser until you've tried it.
> 
> I don't rate timed grinders, as I've yet to find one that's consistent in it's output, and think that individual dose weighing is the only sure way to consistency.


I can echo those comments. My experience with the mazzer mini-e, single dosing, or, using with a full hopper as intended and using the timer was not good. Single dosing it was slow to grind and I couldnt get over channeling issues. Using the timer as intended with a full hopper gave a dose with a variance over 0.8g which is unacceptable for a £500 piece of kit.

Talking to the guys in a shop with a Robur-e it took quite a few lbs of coffee for the thing to settle down before it started dishing out a consistant dose (within 0.2g) & this required keeping the hopper quite full all the time.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

...In addition the doser functionality for a home user differs to its original name & purpose.

Its not for portioning coffee, its for de-clumping and distribution = these are key for a great espresso and no1 priority for any home user who only wants a few good shots each day is to get the ultimate extraction they can from the kit. Otherwise why bother buying all this expensive kit in the first place!?

Doser doesnt need to be messy, a few simple mods can make them sweep clean and only need a monthly hoovering out & annual strip and rebuild


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Totally with Gary here portioning is impossible unless the doser is at least half full as it is the weight and volume if the ground coffee that that facilitates complete filling of each chamber. The thwacking does indeed declump when single dosing which leads to better distribution in the portafilter


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## Spukey (Nov 4, 2012)

Thanks all again for the help.

I am coming round to having a doser, but still prefer the look of the doserless and the lack of hassle. But then thwacking doesn't seam that bad and you don't have to stand over the grinder whilst grinding.

Spukey


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

and you feel like a proper barista.....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Spukey said:


> Thanks all again for the help.
> 
> I am coming round to having a doser, but still prefer the look of the doserless and the lack of hassle. But then thwacking doesn't seam that bad and you don't have to stand over the grinder whilst grinding.
> 
> Spukey


Get a Royal and you can hold the PF whilst the grinder chews through 18g in 5 seconds


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Here's a vid I made a little while ago of a shot on my Duetto with the Royal - gives you an idea of grind speed.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Was that a super fine grind? Im well jealous of your rotary pump


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

garydyke1 said:


> Was that a super fine grind? Im well jealous of your rotary pump


Errr - 28g in 30 or so seconds, not crazy fine if I remember correctly.


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