# Silvia noob. Sour shots.



## martyistheman

Got myself a Silvia V3 last week with a Rocky grinder. It's a steep learning curve but I'm progressing well. Or I was, until I tried my espressos straight instead of diluted with milk. They taste very sour.

I've tried two varieties of beans and both result in sour espresso.

I'm dosing 16g. Setting 8 on the Rocky grinder. Tamping quite firmly with aluminium tamper.

Shot takes 8-10 seconds to appear. A further 18 seconds and shot turns transparent, so I stop. This gives me about 1.5oz or 36ml espresso.

If my grind is too fine, then why am I having to stop the shot early. If it's too coarse then why take so long to appear from the filter?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Mrboots2u

Hello and welcome , firstly What were the beans ? Supermarket or fresh roasted ? Some beans are more acidic than others .


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## martyistheman

Hi mrboots2u. First beans were Tesco finest. I thought they might be the problem so I replaced them with

GIAMAICA CAFFE BY GIANNI ERBESTI 100% ARABICA.

Still returning sour shots.


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## Mrboots2u

martyistheman said:


> Hi mrboots2u. First beans were Tesco finest. I thought they might be the problem so I replaced them with
> 
> GIAMAICA CAFFE BY GIANNI ERBESTI 100% ARABICA.
> 
> Still returning sour shots.


Tesco beans won't be fresh no . The beans you now have , where are they from , what's the roast date , I haven't come across them before, they may be a bean that's on the acidic taste spectrum .

EDIT looking at the bean online it says it has a high degree of acidity as a taste , this could be your sour element also .

8 seconds is a long time before coffee starts appearing on a silvia . But over extraction would normally result in a bitter taste .So few other questions too, as it may be that the temp is too low when your extracting also .

When you dose are you measuring it to 0.1 g ? Does the PF lock in ok ?

if you have scales can you measure the time from the pump going on Til you turn it off and measure the weight of espresso produced ( not volume ) .

Are you doing any temp surfing on the silvia ? Is the PF locked in and heated up before you pull your shots ?

how long is the machine on before you pull shots .


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## Mrboots2u

If you don't know what temperature surfing is try this link


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## Glenn

The coffee is described as having 'high acidity' and I bet that's what you are experiencing

There is a fine line between sourness and acidity


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## Mrboots2u

Glenn said:


> The coffee is described as having 'high acidity' and I bet that's what you are experiencing
> 
> There is a fine line between sourness and acidity


Beat me to it !

Acidity and chocolate and honey is an odd blend ....


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## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> If you don't know what timepiece surfing is try this link


Is that like what they do in Back to the Future?


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## CoffeeJohnny

jeebsy said:


> Is that like what they do in Back to the Future?


 No they drink iced tea


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Is that like what they do in Back to the Future?


Ipad predictive typing rubbish., you bunch of gits.....


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## Spazbarista

The temperature stability on a Silvia is nonexistent.

If you don't either fit a PID or learn to temperature surf you'll always be wondering why your shots are so inconsistent

(Wish the internet had been around when I first got my Silvia)


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## Mrboots2u

Expobarista said:


> The temperature stability on a Silvia is nonexistent.
> 
> If you don't either fit a PID or learn to temperature surf you'll always be wondering why your shots are so inconsistent
> 
> (Wish the internet had been around when I first got my Silvia)


Yep acidic bean ( Jesus ipad predictive nearly made that acidic bra ....) with a low temp on the silvia could be ewwwww.


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## Mrboots2u

Anyway Marty , try out one of the online roasters in our list . What kind of coffee taste d you normally prefer ? Do you buy good espresso from a cafe , if so what do you like about the taste of it ?


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## martyistheman

Ok. Just pulled a shot. Followed the temp surf clip too.

Machine on.

Run water thru wand and group head for 5s each.

Wait 30 mins. PF still in place.

Wait till brew light comes on.

Grind beans @ 8 on Rocky.

Measure 16g (3 pulls on doser consistently gives me 16g). My scales are digital but not to 0.1g.

Level. Tap. Tap. Tap. Tamp. Polish.

30s after brew light goes off, put PF in place. It turns no problem.

Turn on for espresso.

26seconds (from start of pumping to finish) produced 26g of espresso but I think I waited too long as last 4-5 seconds was pale and translucent. Crema was ok but sour/acid taste somewhat reduced.

I did tamp quite a bit firmer this time. Espresso appeared after only 4-5 seconds.

Taste maybe just down to the beans. But watching that youtube surfing clip, my 26g of espresso looked a lot less than the volume they poured.

There is a local roaster I can try. Will be next week tho.


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## Mrboots2u

Excellent glad it's getting better, think the bean may not be to your taste also . Where you based BTW


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## Kyle548

martyistheman said:


> Ok. Just pulled a shot. Followed the temp surf clip too.
> 
> Machine on.
> 
> Run water thru wand and group head for 5s each.
> 
> Wait 30 mins. PF still in place.
> 
> Wait till brew light comes on.
> 
> Grind beans @ 8 on Rocky.
> 
> Measure 16g (3 pulls on doser consistently gives me 16g). My scales are digital but not to 0.1g.
> 
> Level. Tap. Tap. Tap. Tamp. Polish.
> 
> 30s after brew light goes off, put PF in place. It turns no problem.
> 
> Turn on for espresso.
> 
> 26seconds (from start of pumping to finish) produced 26g of espresso but I think I waited too long as last 4-5 seconds was pale and translucent. Crema was ok but sour/acid taste somewhat reduced.
> 
> I did tamp quite a bit firmer this time. Espresso appeared after only 4-5 seconds.
> 
> Taste maybe just down to the beans. But watching that youtube surfing clip, my 26g of espresso looked a lot less than the volume they poured.
> 
> There is a local roaster I can try. Will be next week tho.


50% of the volume of a shot is the crema.

Some beans get more crema, as well as a long list of other things that effect crema.

Don't worry about the volume, worry about the weight.

Also, if your getting a sour shot, updose to 20g and try again.

At a high dose, grind finer and tamp lighter (the grind will be coarser than what you have now, but finer relative to what it is now).

There is not really any point in tapping as long as all the grounds fit. Tap if your grounds are not fitting into the basket to remove some airspace.

Just dose into the basket, put the tamper on and nutate it untill its flat, then tamp down.

Don't bother polishing.

The second it starts being pale, kill the pump.

Even if its only 2 seconds, kill the pump (although you have failed really badly in this case).

For more technical basket prep, check out WDT and for vetter temp control, temp surfing, but worry about those later, I guess.

Also might be worth thinking about making the rocky stepless.


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## Mrboots2u

Kyle 20g In a stock silvia basket will be too much, the PF won't lock in.


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## Kyle548

Mrboots2u said:


> Kyle 20g In a stock silvia basket will be too much, the PF won't lock in.


Ah, ok.

20g fits into a stock Classic basket pretty easily, what's the most it can take?

I'd recommend trying to updose to that or get darker roasted beans.

I have found that lower doses just don't work with lighter or more acidic beans.


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## Glenn

Try to avoid WDT where possible too.

I have found that not using WDT has helped 5 out of the last 6 baristas I trained to improve their extractions


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## martyistheman

Thanks everybody. I'll keep trying to improve my technique with the beans I have until I can find some which are less acidic.

Mrboots2u - I'm based in Irvine, Ayrshire. There's a local roaster in Ayr. About 20 mins away.


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## Spazbarista

Try Italian Job from Rave coffee. Its very forgiving


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## Glenn

Try Level. Tap. Tap. Tap. Tamp. Polish


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## martyistheman

Thanks Glenn. I'll try that. Although will I not be more susceptible to uneven distribution?

I'll try The Italian Job beans. Thanks for the suggestion.

My favourite beans so far (not tried them on my new Silvia yet) are Ethiopian Yirgacheffe and Monsoon Malabar.


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## garydyke1

Even the best quality beans will tasty sour if really poorly extracted ,focus on a really well distributed coffee bed prior to tamping.

Some video footage of your shot prep would be useful


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## martyistheman

Just pulled another shot. Everything done the same as before but no tapping and I started straight after the brew light went out. Hoping for a higher temp.

Wow! Took longer but crema was darker and sourness much reduced. Added milk and drink was awesome.


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## Kyle548

Try adding hot, but not boiling water to your tank and see what it does when you brew a shot.

Chances are the brew pressure will be lower for one, but might reduce sourness as there will be a higher net temp across the shot.

Too hot and the machine won't pump though, as the water pressure will be too low.

Dunno, worth a try, but don't know if it's worth the trouble or the effects on the shot..


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## Charliej

Kyle548 said:


> Try adding hot, but not boiling water to your tank and see what it does when you brew a shot.
> 
> Chances are the brew pressure will be lower for one, but might reduce sourness as there will be a higher net temp across the shot.
> 
> Too hot and the machine won't pump though, as the water pressure will be too low.
> 
> Dunno, worth a try, but don't know if it's worth the trouble or the effects on the shot..


He's going to have to add a lot of hot water to actually make any difference to the shot that way. There is zero point whatsoever in getting newbies to overcomplicate their prep and no point in offering advice where you don't know what the effects of are likely to be. I'll give you an example here of pre heated water being fed to a boiler, the Sage feeds the brew boiler with water at 80 degrees C via an HX in the steam boiler, in order to feed the brew boiler of a Silvia with water at 80 degrees you would have to almost fill the tank with hot water.

As Gary and Glenn have said don't over complicate the process, get your prep right and a decent shot will follow, Miss Silvia is notorious for being finicky about grind level and pulling vile shots without a good temp surfing routine.


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## Mrboots2u

martyistheman said:


> Just pulled another shot. Everything done the same as before but no tapping and I started straight after the brew light went out. Hoping for a higher temp.
> 
> Wow! Took longer but crema was darker and sourness much reduced. Added milk and drink was awesome.


Your drinks taste good now ...good


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## Glenn

Yay - hopefully another 'no-tap' convert


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## martyistheman

I think I am a 'no-tap' convert. Results since 'not-tapping' are much improved. Darker crema. No sourness. Temp surfing probably helps too.

I'm not generally an espresso drinker. I prefer small flat-whites, so I had no great experience with which to compare my own espresso shots. Adding a little milk and I can taste deep coffee and dark chocolate, and I'm over the moon with that. I think I have got the basics. Just some fine tuning left to master. Lol.

Thanks everyone for their help and advice. Panic can set in when you spend £400 on a machine and £200 on a grinder, and you don't like the initial results. I did expect a steep learning curve but it was still worrying.

Cheers!


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## Mrboots2u

Brilliant , just remember the next lot of Beans will be different. Lighter roast - finer grind. Darker roast - coarser grind.

It's a learning curve everyone has don't worry .


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