# Oracle Touch - problems with single cup



## oracleuser

Hello,

i am a new Owner of an Oracle Touch. But i have a few problems:

1) When i am using the single cup basket came with the machine, it always produces shots without real crema which tastes bad. Have changed the grinder size to all possibilitys, but what comes out has always a poor result.

2) Coffee begins to run out already after app. 5 seconds when using single cup (doesn't matter which grind size)

3) What comes out is so strong, that i have the feeling to get a heart attack.

When using the double cup basket, everything is fine. But i am single and don't need always two cups.

Anyone an idea what is going on and what i can do?


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## Mrboots2u

I am unsure what the oracle doses into a single basket or how it knows you have out one in?

The older oracle had a fixed dose to it for the double basket ...

coffee coming out after 5 seconds isnt an issue , if its too strong let the shot run for longer .


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## Mrboots2u

Looking at some of the forums , it suggests that the dosing system recognises the basket , so you should be dosing abotu 11g ish .

Id be looking for a shot around 28-30g or 30 ml , to dilute that .


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## ajohn

If the single is the same one as used on the dual boiler it's a rather odd one. It's easy to find yourself tamping onto the shoulder in the basket rather than the grounds. This doesn't leave much variation on fill height and when the tamper has hit the shoulder the result looks ok but gives the sort of symptoms you have.

Can't give advice on weights as I gave up trying to use it. MrBoots may be correct, might even need 12g or even more. There was a post some time ago by some one with a none touch Oracle who did find some weights that it would work with. He too had problems and then realised he was tamping onto the shoulder. If I remember correctly he was trying to use 10g.

I have used a Fracino 7g basket instead a few times but it holds a fair bit more on a DB. It's a ridged basket though so needs an extractor tool to get it out easily.

John

-


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## Nicknak

A chap from coffee classics told me the tamping mechanism relies on resistance and upwards pressure to gauge the amount of coffee .. If you grind finer the weight in the baskets goes up and visa versa if you go coarser.. also if the grind is too coarse the tamp doesn't polish and leave little mounds .. The mechanism can be adjusted to go lower or higher with a small Allen key ... There as a problem with the single where the coffee puck was spinning with the fan . Which is why it has the sand blasted look ..


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## oracleuser

OK, first some good news:

The dosing of the oracle touch can be changed! I talked to the Sage Costumer support, which is really friendly.

It's done with an allen key like Nicknak told. Just put the tamper out, use the allen key to remove the lock and then you can adjust a thread.

I am using the double basket now with 16,5grams which is a fine dose i guess.

Bad news:

- Puk is to be relative wet now

- Results doesn't seem to be always reproducable? Sometimes shots are over or underextracted?!

But as i heart the VST 15g will fit?

https://www.kaffeenudel.de/VST-15g-randlos


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## Nicknak

@oracleuser

When I was using the non touch Oracle the dose for the bigger basket was around 20-22g .. so a triple In effect I think .. So it might be that your underdosing .. @ajohn might be able to help .He has been using the DB which is the same machine without the grinder and touch bits ..

I never used the single basket when I had the machine , but from memory reading a lot on the different forums users had a bit of a problem with it .. I believe you have to grind a bit finer to get reasonable results out of the single basket .

When I started to use separate grinder for decaf I used the sage dosing tool to gauge the height of the dry puck after tamping to give me an idea of the relative puck height..which may be a factor or not ..


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## Nicknak

Ps to above.

Sage do not recommend using different makers baskets as it may interfere with the auto tamper ..

Might be worth reading up on that to see if anyone has had success with them ..


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## ajohn

oracleuser said:


> OK, first some good news:
> 
> The dosing of the oracle touch can be changed! I talked to the Sage Costumer support, which is really friendly.
> 
> It's done with an allen key like Nicknak told. Just put the tamper out, use the allen key to remove the lock and then you can adjust a thread.
> 
> I am using the double basket now with 16,5grams which is a fine dose i guess.
> 
> Bad news:
> 
> - Puk is to be relative wet now
> 
> - Results doesn't seem to be always reproducable? Sometimes shots are over or underextracted?!
> 
> But as i heart the VST 15g will fit?
> 
> https://www.kaffeenudel.de/VST-15g-randlos


If the wetness is just a film on top of the puck it can be just down to rather fine grinding but I doubt if that is the problem. More likely under filling and that will add variability. I haven't used the Sage double on my DB but going on figures others mention 16.5g is too low. I have gained the impression that Oracles come calibrated to put the correct weight in their double due to problems early on.

I suspect you will find that the VST 15g holds a lot more on a Sage machine with E61 sized baskets. It will probably have a similar capacity to the double you have. It's down to fill height. I'm currently using a Fracino 12g basket. Fracino appear to use a slightly higher fill height than others. One of the beans I use is unusually light and bulky and it takes around 14.3g of that. Most beans come out at about 15g and a bit. Then I found one that seems to be unusually heavy and that needs 16g. As I have changed the shower screen the Sage shower screen would leave a bit more room for coffee so the weights would be a touch higher.

12g is a standard size for commercial baskets so they are about but usually ridged which may make them difficult to fit and much worse to get out. An extractor tool off amazon helps a lot with that.

I suspect this basket would be about right for the dose you mention, it holds a bit more than the Fracino one.

https://www.bluestarcoffee.eu/rancilio-filter-basket-double-12g-58mm-3781-p.asp

It needs some force to get it in but not over much and will definitely need an extractor tool to get it out. If you start looking at IMS baskets don't get sucked in by claims like 12 to 18g. People have been known to use emery cloth to reduce the size of the rim on baskets like this in the past. The Rancilio part is nice and shiny just like IMS's competition baskets. Actually IMS make most of the baskets for all but a few makes of machine.

Really Sage should get up off their backsides and make more sizes for all of their machines but your typical punter usually just wants to stuff more coffee in so they just produce over sized singles and doubles. They are well made baskets other than the weird aspect I mentioned about the single.

As some one mentions if you do use their single you will need to grind finer than you do for the double.

John

-


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## Mrboots2u

oracleuser said:


> OK, first some good news:
> 
> The dosing of the oracle touch can be changed! I talked to the Sage Costumer support, which is really friendly.
> 
> It's done with an allen key like Nicknak told. Just put the tamper out, use the allen key to remove the lock and then you can adjust a thread.
> 
> I am using the double basket now with 16,5grams which is a fine dose i guess.
> 
> Bad news:
> 
> - Puk is to be relative wet now
> 
> - Results doesn't seem to be always reproducable? Sometimes shots are over or underextracted?!
> 
> But as i heart the VST 15g will fit?
> 
> https://www.kaffeenudel.de/VST-15g-randlos


You are making coffee , not pucks, Id stick with the baskets you have.

The vst will need a really fine grind at 15g and i do not think the Sage oracle grinder is capable of meeting that , at that dose .


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## espressotechno

Interesting reading...lol

(Sage is one of the few brands I won't repair or service)


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## oracleuser

Well now i have a problem.

I don't get out the ventilator/tamper anymore. Well the tamper gets out but not the stick where it was locked and where i could adjust with the allen

When i try to turn it, it just keeps rotating and doesn't fall out like it was

Any expert here?

Hope i don't have to send the machine back just because of this silly stuff

If there won't be a fix i will send it back and get the Bartista Touch. This is somehow unworthy for a 2500$ machine

PS:

Photo of the part....already removed the ventilator (put under this)...the gray part has to come out...but doesn't...when i turn it, the gold part also turns so i don't get it out: https://abload.de/img/1cae640a-68d0-4424-a575ek8.jpg


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## Nicknak

My understanding is you only need to take out the tamper van (ventilator) to clean it.

The rest of the mechanism should stay where it is.

The Allen key is in the nut shaped bit on the end.(where the tamper fits to)

You loosen the Allen key screw the nut bit up or down to adjust tighten the Allen key and you are done .

I don't understand why you need to take the threaded shaft off.

If you look on the brass(gold) bit it has flats on it , which with the right shaped spanner would lock that bit of the shaft

Look on Sage website it shows the part on its own.. adjustment is only on the nut.

if you are turning the bottom bit and everything is turning the Allen key is still locked onto the shaft, or you overtightened it and caused a distortion to the thread ..


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## Nicknak

Ps obviously the fan comes out to adjust the nut .

The nut should be adjusted whilst everything bar the fan is attached to the machine


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## oracleuser

Nicknak said:


> Ps obviously the fan comes out to adjust the nut .
> 
> The nut should be adjusted whilst everything bar the fan is attached to the machine


But how should that work? There is nothing to adjust on the fan

The hole for the allen key is on the side of the grey thing ...... it presses the outer thing to the thread..when you loose it, you can move it up and down as i did before..


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## Nicknak

There is no adjustment on the fan.

You take that off..

Loosen the Allen screw on the silver bit ,adjust the silver bit up and down ,lock off the Allen screw , put fan back .

Looking at the picture above it looks like it has unscrewed beyond where the Allen screw would bite into thread .


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## oracleuser

Nicknak said:


> There is no adjustment on the fan.
> 
> You take that off..
> 
> Loosen the Allen screw on the silver bit ,adjust the silver bit up and down ,lock off the Allen screw , put fan back .
> 
> Looking at the picture above it looks like it has unscrewed beyond where the Allen screw would bite into thread .


But how should i do that IN that machine in that small tunnel? The allen key is about a 2 mm or so... and it's on the backside now..i can feel it with my hand but...hit it with that small key?

As i first did it the hole thing came out and it was easy


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## Nicknak

It can be done whilst on the machine , like all mechanical things the right size tool shaped to fit helps .

But it is awkward ..

If the whole lot came off before it should now , unless you overtightened it and now the spindle turns ..Or before you had beans in the burrs that helped lock the spindle .. The flats on the gold bit are to help lock the spindle ,but look awkward as well.


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## oracleuser

Nicknak said:


> unless you overtightened it


I didn't use tools to put it back the first time when it worked. Just put it in the machine, then put the fan onto it and turned the fan a bit with my hand....would be strange if THAT really overtightened it....


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## Nicknak

So it should come off ,

Just using it will have a tightening effect ..as in grinding ..

when you try to take it off does the lower burr turn ?

I don't know what the internal are like , but I guess it is a plastic gearbox .

Hope that hasn't stripped when you took it off or attempts since ..

I believe you should do it whilst on the machine . Fiddly yes , possible yes..


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## Nicknak

Just found a video on seatless gear showing inside of a oracle .. The grinder mechanism is totally separate to the tamper one .


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## TobyAnscombe

OP - On the Touch the thread is a left hander so turn the opposite way to normal!

I tend to leave the tamping fan in, unscrew it the way that you would normally unscrew something and you will feel it move 1/8 of a turn and then stop. Turn it the other way (the wrong way) and it will come out. Grab the square end shown in your photo and turn it counter-clockwise... That should release it...

Once its out, slacken off the small Allen key and change where it sits on the thread - higher = less tamp, lower = more tamp. I can pull mine apart and take photos if you want...


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## TobyAnscombe

https://www.breville.com/us/en/parts-accessories/parts/sp0014256.html shows the screw adjuster but its upside down - the square bit it at the bottom and locks into the fan with a magnet.





 shows you the fan being removed with the magnet tool. On mine, I can just spin the fan counter-clockwise to remove the whole thing...

I'm set-up with the standard double basket, grind of about 25-27 depending on bean and for my wife its a 25sec pour followed by 25 sec of hot water. For me its a 30 sec pour and then some steamed milk. 10 months in and hundreds of cups poured with zero issues so happy to share the workflow if that helps.


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## ajohn

oracleuser said:


> But how should i do that IN that machine in that small tunnel? The allen key is about a 2 mm or so... and it's on the backside now..i can feel it with my hand but...hit it with that small key?
> 
> As i first did it the hole thing came out and it was easy


You could try placing a mirror on the drip tray underneath it. Hand to eye soon gets used to the way things move. It's useful doing work on a BE as it saves emptying the hopper to turn he machine upside down etc which is what some do. I use a separate make up mirror my wife stopped using years ago.

John

-


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## oracleuser

TobyAnscombe said:


> Grab the square end shown in your photo and turn it counter-clockwise... That should release it...


First: Thanks for all your help afforts!

When i do it that, i hear a clattering from the motor the hole thing is conected to. So it just turns the motor instead of loosening anything


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## TobyAnscombe

Sounds like something is off with your machine - even if I try really hard I can't spin the motor... You may need a small pair of needle-nose pliers to get up and hold the spindle


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## oracleuser

TobyAnscombe said:


> Sounds like something is off with your machine - even if I try really hard I can't spin the motor... You may need a small pair of needle-nose pliers to get up and hold the spindle


With the hand on that screw i can't do it, too. But when i let the ventilator/fan on the thing and turn the ventilator with the hand then i hear the motor spinning


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## Nicknak

Have you tried turning both ways as Toby suggested above ?

Have you tried to use it as a grinder and is it still tamping .

Try a little upwards pressure when you turn it .


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## oracleuser

I fixed it!

As i found out: The gray part is connected via a thread. I guess at the last change i screwed it in too much.

I could loose it after twisting it nearly 10 seconds. Now i just put it in softly with 2-3 cycles.

Thanks again for the help!

PS: Have set it now to ~19 grams (which should be the new factory default in future for all oracle touches as the support told me)


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## Nicknak

Well done ...

Might be worth posting pictures of it out and dismantled for others in the future ..


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## TobyAnscombe

Glad you got it sorted. I took some photos earlier to help - will upload them for a record but the link I posted to Oracle (Breville) shows the adaptor.


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## oracleuser

Now everything works...but...next problem...

i don't get really reproducible shots...same beans from same package, same settings, same environment... but the output differs from 60 to 80 ml

sometimes it makes 3 identical with lets say 65ml..but then 3 totally different

any ideas?


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## oracleuser

I think i will send it back...It's not possible to get reproducible shots...Changed beans, changed grams back to 22....

Nothing helps....


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## Mrboots2u

oracleuser said:


> I think i will send it back...It's not possible to get reproducible shots...Changed beans, changed grams back to 22....
> 
> Nothing helps....


Im not sure what the problem is or that you really want advice tbh.

You can make half decent drinks with an oracle but I don't use the volumetric buttons in the machine. I use scales and weight my output .

Even using the buttons you can get ball park tasty with milk in em .

At no point are you saying if the drinks taste any good or not or providing ant real data for anyone to help you with


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## oracleuser

Mrboots2u said:


> Im not sure what the problem is or that you really want advice tbh.
> 
> You can make half decent drinks with an oracle but I don't use the volumetric buttons in the machine. I use scales and weight my output .
> 
> Even using the buttons you can get ball park tasty with milk in em .
> 
> At no point are you saying if the drinks taste any good or not or providing ant real data for anyone to help you with


I got tasty drinks out of maybe 2 of 10 shots









On the oracle touch i have no control of output. I can adjust only the extraction time! And the shot is many times overextracted, many time underextracted..and...very few times very good


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## Mrboots2u

oracleuser said:


> I got tasty drinks out of maybe 2 of 10 shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the oracle touch i have no control of output. I can adjust only the extraction time!


It doenst have a stop shot and start shot button


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## oracleuser

Mrboots2u said:


> It doenst have a stop shot and start shot button


But the problem seems to be with the grinder or tamper...because the same settings with 30 seconds extraction time shouln't give one time 50 ml and another time 90 ml...or?


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## Mrboots2u

oracleuser said:


> But the problem seems to be with the grinder or tamper...because the same settings with 30 seconds extraction time shouln't give one time 50 ml and another time 90 ml...or?


shouldn't agreed.

Whats the coffee


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## GingerBen

oracleuser said:


> But the problem seems to be with the grinder or tamper...because the same settings with 30 seconds extraction time shouln't give one time 50 ml and another time 90 ml...or?


i had loads of issues with two oracles around hugely inconsistent shots from one to the next. I got a refund after sending the second one back and determined that the grinder and tamping mechanism are garbage and let down what was a great idea in theory.


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## oracleuser

Mrboots2u said:


> shouldn't agreed.
> 
> Whats the coffee


tried different... lavazzy, illy, noname........same results

And beside of that i am not satisfied with a fake single basket that is nearly a double basket with 12g

and the double basket...is..to be honest a triple basket with its 22g...thats just crazy


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## Mrboots2u

oracleuser said:


> tried different... lavazzy, illy, noname........same results
> 
> And beside of that i am not satisfied with a fake single basket that is nearly a double basket with 12g
> 
> and the double basket...is..to be honest a triple basket with its 22g...thats just crazy


Different coffee , none fresh.


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## GerryM

oracleuser said:


> tried different... lavazzy, illy, noname........same results
> 
> And beside of that i am not satisfied with a fake single basket that is nearly a double basket with 12g
> 
> and the double basket...is..to be honest a triple basket with its 22g...thats just crazy


Whilst the grinder on the oracle isn't the best it is capable of consistency.

My sense is that the difficulty you're experiencing may be down to something you are or are not doing rather than the machine, I wonder if getting someone over for some training might help you to get the results the oracle is capable of.

Until you use freshly roasted coffee from a reputable source then you've got no chance of getting consistently good results.

Your frustrations with the Oracle will resurface with whatever machine you buy unless you use freshly roasted coffee and get the prep right.


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## TobyAnscombe

Where are you based? If near London then happy to help...

I almost always use HasBean beans (InMyMug subscription) - my workflow is:

Grind set to 25-27

Normally 22g of coffee out into the normal double portafilter basket that you get from Sage

I'll need to check the output but from memory its about 50-60g of liquid in 30 sec

Solid and consistent every time - the grind only changes as the beans age (assuming that they last that long!)


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## oracleuser

TobyAnscombe said:


> Where are you based? If near London then happy to help...


Thanks for the offer. Sadly, Germany is a bit far.

I made some videos, maybe i am doing something wrong:

First...is it normal that the tamped grind comes out relativ easily when shaking the portafilter?


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## TobyAnscombe

I'm out of beans (damm postman!) so will buy some crappy ones so I can show you mine. The actual pour seems ok, the time is fixed so it's the grind and tamp that will affect the volume.

How does it taste? When you knock the grind out afterwards is it loose or does it come out like a biscuit?


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## oracleuser

This is strange....i continued playing around yesterday and except the one 80ml shot ALL (about 5) shots had nearly exactly 70 ml.

But this morning i woke up and made a shot: 50ml! Next try: 60 ml....

So that is another strange element: There are times when it makes shots constantly...but then some hours later it gets wild again (and i didn't even touched the beans storage)



TobyAnscombe said:


> When you knock the grind out afterwards is it loose or does it come out like a biscuit?


biscuit


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## ronsil

Have to say - I still think your problem is down to the coffee you are using.

Buy some freshly roasted coffee, not supermarket & use 7-10 days after roasting & give it another try.


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## oracleuser

I will find out

- Baught a Smart Grinder+ Tamper on Amazon

- Will buy fresh coffee

So this way i can find out the faulty variable....


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## TobyAnscombe

While waiting for my HasBean (bloomin' postman!) to get delivered (almost always on a Saturday..) I've bought some Square Mile Redbrick that was roasted 27th Sept. Just going for a bike ride but will pull some shots when I get back for you...

My current theory is coffee freshness and tamp but lets see ;-)


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## TobyAnscombe

Ok, here we go..

Fresh bag of coffee









Tamp adjustment thingy - 3 threads showing to indicate how far down mine is (untouched from factory setting)









These videos are all shot using the default espresso setting with a grind of 27.

Video 1 - grind and approximate duration as it takes about 30 sec to grind and tamp the basket.











No video but I pulled another shot straight after and weighed it (you can see the original in the background) which was 45g









Hope this helps..


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## TobyAnscombe

Currently waiting for youtube to upload (I live in the middle of nowhere so at best I get 1Mb upload and 5Mb download) but yes, if I shake the then the puck will fall out, looks very similar in terms of effort to yours.


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## TobyAnscombe

Any update?


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## oracleuser

TobyAnscombe said:


> Any update?


Had falsely ordered an 58m tamper instead of 58,5...but the right should arrive today


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## oracleuser

First result using the internal oracle grinder and an external (stamp) tamper:

Same as using the internal tamper

So it's a problem of the grind or the brewing

Will now try with the smart grinder


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## oracleuser

oracleuser said:


> First result using the internal oracle grinder and an external (stamp) tamper:
> 
> Same as using the internal tamper
> 
> So it's a problem of the grind or the brewing
> 
> Will now try with the smart grinder


Second experiment:

Using the smart grinder with external tamper: Same! No repeatable shots


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## oracleuser

Will buy pre-ground espresso to see what is the problem....


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## Nicknak

@oracleuser

Pre ground coffee will be worse.. it goes stale within hours of opening if it is not already stale ..

Coffee beans bought without a roast date on are generally stale . ( Not a use by date )

On the rare occasion I have bought from a supermarket , you have to adjust the grind daily or quicker.

People on this thread have tried to advise you of this .. You are making all this harder for yourself ..

Sage tell you on their videos and in the booklet to use freshly roasted coffee ..

The oracle I had was making really good coffee within hours of getting it home .. Very easy to dial in using freshly roasted coffee..

The tamping mechanism on the machine was on mine very reliable and takes that out of the equation .


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## oracleuser

Nicknak said:


> @oracleuser
> 
> Pre ground coffee will be worse.. it goes stale within hours of opening if it is not already stale ..
> 
> Coffee beans bought without a roast date on are generally stale . ( Not a use by date )
> 
> On the rare occasion I have bought from a supermarket , you have to adjust the grind daily or quicker.
> 
> People on this thread have tried to advise you of this .. You are making all this harder for yourself ..
> 
> Sage tell you on their videos and in the booklet to use freshly roasted coffee ..
> 
> The oracle I had was making really good coffee within hours of getting it home .. Very easy to dial in using freshly roasted coffee..
> 
> The tamping mechanism on the machine was on mine very reliable and takes that out of the equation .


Premium beans will arrive monday ... so i will give them also a try and see what happens


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## oracleuser

OK...so two things

1) You guys were right supermarket beans are shit ... premium beans taste much much much bettere

2) Problem doesn't seem to be fixed....still experimenting but...shot one: 60 ml, shot two: 70ml, shot three: 80ml.............will have to send the machine in for replacement


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## TobyAnscombe

That does sound off - bear in mind that the grind, tamp and water are all fixed variables. Now that you have some decent beans then you've tried everything. Would be really interested to hear what gets fixed when you get it back from Sage.

Hope you get it sorted soon - almost a year now and probably close to 1000 shots and other than dialling it in, no duff ones so they are very capable machines (which I'd expect for the price!)


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## ashcroc

oracleuser said:


> OK...so two things
> 
> 1) You guys were right supermarket beans are shit ... premium beans taste much much much bettere
> 
> 2) Problem doesn't seem to be fixed....still experimenting but...shot one: 60 ml, shot two: 70ml, shot three: 80ml.............will have to send the machine in for replacement


Have you had the white gloves service? It may be an easy way to get someone to have a look at it in situ.


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## oracleuser

ashcroc said:


> Have you had the white gloves service? It may be an easy way to get someone to have a look at it in situ.


What is white gloves service? I am in Germany btw.


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## ronsil

Not sure but did hear the white glove service does not come with the Touch version.


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## TobyAnscombe

ronsil said:


> Not sure but did hear the white glove service does not come with the Touch version.


Correct. White Glove is not provided or an option with the Touch.


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## oracleuser

TobyAnscombe said:


> Would be really interested to hear what gets fixed when you get it back from Sage.


Sadly that won't happen because i get a direct replacement in the next days from the shop

But so it's some weeks faster


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## ashcroc

Fingers crossed the replacement doesn't suffer from the same problem (or any for that matter).


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## TobyAnscombe

Hope its all sorted!


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## oracleuser

OK...got a brand new machine..and i am not sure if the problem is fixed....

I could reproduce some shots but then some got wild... i am trying out if it has to do with the fill hight in the bean container of the grinder


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## GingerBen

Describe 'got wild' - do you mean massively different volumes or taste?

When I had the white glove service with my Oracle (non-touch) they couldn't get it to produce consistent shots and blamed my beans - square mile so not rubbish - as they had been frozen. However their own beans that they supply had the same issue... He eventually got it to make a couple of shots back to back that were decent so we left it at that. No sooner had they left did it start messing around again and I was getting massively different volumes produced without making any changes. Unfortunately I just don't think Oracles are very good, they are over complicated and have too much to go wrong. I'd get a refund if I were you and buy yourself a good seperate set up.


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## oracleuser

GingerBen said:


> Describe 'got wild' - do you mean massively different volumes or taste?


volume...taste is good with good beans


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## oracleuser

Output:

29g ... 25g ... 32g

really sad :-(


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## TobyAnscombe

oracleuser said:


> OK...got a brand new machine..and i am not sure if the problem is fixed....
> 
> I could reproduce some shots but then some got wild... i am trying out if it has to do with the fill hight in the bean container of the grinder


Nope, should be pretty much the same unless you have so few beans that it "popcorns" around..

you really don't seem to have much luck (sad face) - If the coffee tastes good and the auto milk wand works for you then stick with it. Otherwise...

FWIW - other than when I weighed the outputs and inputs for you, I never bother - The purpose of a good machine is to make good coffee! It's the same problem that some folks have with digital cameras - they spend all their time pixel-peeping that they never realise that they are looking at a great photo.


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## TobyAnscombe

....Just to check (sorry!)

You are using non-supermarket beans?

You have the grind set to about 27?

You are pulling an espresso from the default button (25sec)?

Given that all the variables are essentially fixed (flow, dose, grind) I just can't understand why you don't have consistency. To have the same experience across two machines either means that mine is a fluke because it works ok or there is something that we haven't considered..


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## oracleuser

Some interesting new development:

I got new (roast date 4 weeks ago) beans.

Result:

In the first two days after opening the package i could produce 7 constant results (and only one faulty) only varying about 2-3g on a double shot which is very good i think.

But now on day three it seems to get wild again. Getting more output (15%) and getting a varying of up to 15g

Any interpretation on this?


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## Mrboots2u

I use an older Oracle at home. It does have variances to it.

I use scales to weight out my shot and stop by weight. I taste and enjoy, if the variance in taste is too much , I adjust the grind.

I suspect the variances you see are a result of the auto dosing and tamping , some channeling , and the way it stop as shot ( is it flow meter or not i don't know ) . I think you going to have to accept this or get a different system to make coffee with.

There are alot of great things but the oracle, it steams milk really well, it makes, coffee for alot of people really simple .

The grinder is awful, it struggles wto get a decent espresso with any kind of specialty coffee that isn't what i suppose people would call "medium roasted"

If you are going to get hung up on wanting a machine that will do accurate volumetrics then go buy a 2 group linea or something , the oracle is not the answer.


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## oracleuser

Mrboots2u said:


> I use an older Oracle at home. It does have variances to it.
> 
> I use scales to weight out my shot and stop by weight. I taste and enjoy, if the variance in taste is too much , I adjust the grind.
> 
> I suspect the variances you see are a result of the auto dosing and tamping , some channeling , and the way it stop as shot ( is it flow meter or not i don't know ) . I think you going to have to accept this or get a different system to make coffee with.
> 
> There are alot of great things but the oracle, it steams milk really well, it makes, coffee for alot of people really simple .
> 
> The grinder is awful, it struggles wto get a decent espresso with any kind of specialty coffee that isn't what i suppose people would call "medium roasted"
> 
> If you are going to get hung up on wanting a machine that will do accurate volumetrics then go buy a 2 group linea or something , the oracle is not the answer.


The touch isn't measuring via flow meter, it stops after programmed seconds.

Maybe i will buy an additional grinder (any suggestion? should have a timer and make constant results







) for shots that should be more precise, because by itself i like the machine with touch system very much. The ability e.g. to switch between single, double or even smaller or lager lungos with just one touch is awesome.

Btw:

I don't think it's the auto tamp. I think the grinder is the problem. Because i tested the Smart Grinder from Sage (same system) and a manual tamper and the results were the same than with auto tamp


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## Nicknak

Are you adjusting the grinder as the beans age ?

How are you storing the beans ?

Are you leaving the beans in the hopper ?

Are the drinks varying day to day or hour to hour ?

I found with the basic oracle to empty the hopper each day Fill the hopperwith only what you need .. Store the beans in airtight container .


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## oracleuser

Nicknak said:


> Are you adjusting the grinder as the beans age ?
> 
> How are you storing the beans ?
> 
> Are you leaving the beans in the hopper ?
> 
> Are the drinks varying day to day or hour to hour ?
> 
> I found with the basic oracle to empty the hopper each day Fill the hopperwith only what you need .. Store the beans in airtight container .


Stored them in the hopper

For 1,5 days they were constant then varying from shot to shot even in minutes


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## Nicknak

@oracleuser .. Well that might be your problem .. it is not airtight and the beans may go off (stale)if left.

It might help if you answered the other questions ..


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## oracleuser

Nicknak said:


> @oracleuser .. Well that might be your problem .. it is not airtight and the beans may go off (stale)if left.
> 
> It might help if you answered the other questions ..


Edited the old post so you may didn't see it yet









"For 1,5 days they were constant then varying from shot to shot even in minutes"

So i will try your tipp and refill them daily in the hopper. Didn't expect that beans age THAT quick


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## Nicknak

I had the oracle for about 4 months very pleased with in until it broke .

I use about 1 kg every two weeks for caffeineated.. kept the beans in airscape containers and vacuum ones .

I found I was tweaking the grind every day or so .. I also used wieght in weight out . I THINK your beans might have reached the point where they are out of date and will act a bit like your supermarket ones..


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## Mrboots2u

Beans wont be going off in the hopper after 5 days to the point where they are stale


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## Nicknak

@oracleuser

Have a read through the forum/internet on how to store your beans once opened ..

Lots of people freeze and vacuum bag them . Use airtight containers , recent interest in airscape containers.

Also on the effects air , heat , moisture etc have on the beans. Then it's over to you to make your own mind up. .

Also read up on dialling in the grinder , I found it is a constant process . on the touch it should be the only thing you have to worry about .

The oracle should be able to make repeatable nice drinks , mine did .


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## Nicknak

@oracleuser .. If you do store your beans in the hopper, and generally if you haven't used the grinder for a while , you should consider grinding a few grams out and disposing of them .. Or you will get older grinds that have been sitting in the burrs /chute etc mixed in with the fresh stuff that can effect the next shot ..


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## TobyAnscombe

just for comparison - 250g of beans in the hopper every week and they don't get time to go stale! I am very lazy so most of the time when the beans run out I leave the grinder running for a bit rather than get the brush and clean it out. Once a month I will give it a decent clean though...


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## oracleuser

I got my VST 15g today! Works great with the Oracle Touch!

First: The grinder has no problems to grind fine enough - set it down from 28 to 20.

Second: In my opinion the coffee tastes much more balanced with less aftertaste and some kind of more sweet and less "harsh" with the VST - any explation? Maybe due to finder grind?


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## hotmetal

Good to hear! Not sure of the science behind it but the VST baskets do seem to be able to pull out some extra sweetness and flavour - although they can be fussy over grind and prep, so it's good to hear you're getting good results with it in the Oracle.

___

Eat, drink and be merry


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## oracleuser

// Please remove


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## oracleuser

If it interests anybody:

I switched finally back to the default basket. The VST worked well with one sort of beans with the oracle grinder, but produced bullshit with all others (watery result even on fine grind). don't know why, but i guess it's known that you need a very good grinder to fit all purposes with the VST and the oracle doesn't seem to deliver that in all situations


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