# Over extraction



## Cubby (Mar 25, 2021)

No matter what l do it just drips through and takes far too long. Ive changed grind size and everything, cleaned it, changed the beans back to the type l usually use all to no avail. The coffee tastes ok but its not right 😕


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Could you perhaps expand a little on your problem. i.e. Machine, grinder, PF basket, bean type, dose weight / ratio, and how you prep it.

It will help us help you.


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## CoffeeTim (Nov 23, 2020)

clean group head??

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


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## Callum_Pg (Oct 28, 2020)

Cubby said:


> No matter what l do it just drips through and takes far too long. Ive changed grind size and everything, cleaned it, changed the beans back to the type l usually use all to no avail. The coffee tastes ok but its not right


Increase the grind size?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

As mentioned more detail needed and I'll make the usual comment about over extraction. While the web often states 1 to 2 in to out in precisely 25 or 30 sec and anything else means extraction is incorrect is garbage. Some ratio and some time will cause the bean to give what it is supposed to give. It needs adjusting to produce a drink the drinker likes that also shows the characteristics that the bean should have to a degree that suits the drinker.


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## Cubby (Mar 25, 2021)

Hey thanks, but my machine was always spot on until about 2 weeks ago 🤔 l changed out all the new type beans l'd put in and went back to Lavazza red but its still behaving the same. As a vending technician/operator l feel a bit silly not being able to solve this problem 😕


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

Is this a wind up?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

lake_m said:


> Is this a wind up?


 I'm 100% sure we do get those at times especially here.

Still no which machine, basket, dose etc and even grinder.

I had no problem with Lavazza red on a BE but tasted nothing like what it does from other methods. However some people never manage to brew with anything other than fresh roasted. Several other similar beans as well. One was impossible that some one bought me. Extremely expensive bean.  Turned out that it didn't matter how much water was run through it providing it was enough. Odd thing is that it tastes as Blue Mountain should. I realised that the grinder was not going to get output down low enough once it was well below settings I usually use and making no difference to flow.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Cubby said:


> No matter what l do it just drips through and takes far too long. Ive changed grind size and everything, cleaned it, changed the beans back to the type l usually use all to no avail. The coffee tastes ok but its not right 😕


 If it tastes ok why is't it right?

No idea what else to say as you haven't given any information.

It's unlikely to be over extracted if it tastes ok.


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## Callum_Pg (Oct 28, 2020)

Cubby said:


> No matter what l do it just drips through and takes far too long. Ive changed grind size and everything, cleaned it, changed the beans back to the type l usually use all to no avail. The coffee tastes ok but its not right


Some beans can drastically changed in the brewing behavior. I owned a Breville Smart Pro, same type of Brazil beans but different location can lead to quite a wide change in grind size.

I would suggest you list down your current settings here so that everyone can use those parameters to make further recommendations for you.

Bean type : originated from, age of beans
Current grind size
Dose in weight
Dose out weight
Brewing time starts from the button is pressed.


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## Cubby (Mar 25, 2021)

Hey thanks, but what l was wondering actually is, is there any mechanical cause for it suddenly behaving this way? It was fine until about 3 weeks ago. Then it started taking forever to come through and only comes out one side and is always right on the limit. Ive tried lots of different settings, lve tried it with a single shot basket instead of the usual double and lve gone back to the Lavazza red beans l usually use...... Always the same result. So l cant see that its dose or grind size as it always comes out the same 😏🤔


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Cubby said:


> Hey thanks, but what l was wondering actually is, is there any mechanical cause for it suddenly behaving this way? It was fine until about 3 weeks ago. Then it started taking forever to come through and only comes out one side and is always right on the limit. Ive tried lots of different settings, lve tried it with a single shot basket instead of the usual double and lve gone back to the Lavazza red beans l usually use...... Always the same result. So l cant see that its dose or grind size as it always comes out the same 😏🤔


 The reason for this sort of behaviour is usually the user other than shots coming out of one side of a dual spout portafilter - that usually down to the machine not being level so gravity does what you would expect it to do.

If you don't use a sensible dose no machine will work as it should. On Sage sometimes the razor tool helps - after it's been firmly tamped.


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## Cubby (Mar 25, 2021)

Thank you for that but the point l was making (that everyone seems to be missing) is, it worked perfectly ok doing what l do until about 3 weeks ago therefore my question is still 'does anyone know of any mechanical type problems that might cause this in this machine. Of course the machine is level


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## AnthonyTD (Mar 11, 2021)

I am not familiar with with this machine but can you confirm that the machine is able to to reach group head pressure reliably?

This is normally done using a blind portafilter with a pressure gauge built into it (or if your machine has a brewing pressure gauge use this with a blind basket).

It is not unusual for for the vibratory pumps on machines to fail after about 4-6 years and they start failing by becoming unable to reach rated pressure. On my 16 year old bazzerra I have replaced the pump three times already. Not an extremely expensive part and easy to replace yourself.


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## Cubby (Mar 25, 2021)

Ahh, thats a more useful answer, thank you. The Sage does have a pressure gauge. Can l buy a blind basket ? Ive had the machine 2 years and only use it 2/3 times a week generally so hopefully the pumps are still ok 👍


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

You should have been back flushing with the supplied rubber disk in a filter basket. The disk is a blind basket. Just another way of doing it.

I thought that the pump on my Sage DB was failing. Still reaching pressure. For some reason I don't understand a descale has restored it to how it has usually behaved.

2,500 shots and something like 1200x 300ml water for large americano.


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## AnthonyTD (Mar 11, 2021)

My one vibratory pump failed in a similar manner. Would not reach pressure, I descaled and it came right but a few weeks later it was doing it again (but on and off, sometimes it would hit pressure other times not). Just ended up replacing the pimp and I was good it is a $30 part of I recall correctly.

I have tried opening one up to repair but I think it is the valves that go. The valves take the form of glass (could be plastic) balls. I suspect over time they just wear away till they are no longer perfectly round or perhaps too small. Cannot source them easily so just replaced the pump.


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## Callum_Pg (Oct 28, 2020)

AnthonyTD said:


> My one vibratory pump failed in a similar manner. Would not reach pressure, I descaled and it came right but a few weeks later it was doing it again (but on and off, sometimes it would hit pressure other times not). Just ended up replacing the pimp and I was good it is a $30 part of I recall correctly.
> 
> I have tried opening one up to repair but I think it is the valves that go. The valves take the form of glass (could be plastic) balls. I suspect over time they just wear away till they are no longer perfectly round or perhaps too small. Cannot source them easily so just replaced the pump.


Do you use filtered water? Filtered water from the filtering systems or from the fridge?


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## Cubby (Mar 25, 2021)

ajohn said:


> You should have been back flushing with the supplied rubber disk in a filter basket. The disk is a blind basket. Just another way of doing it.
> 
> I thought that the pump on my Sage DB was failing. Still reaching pressure. For some reason I don't understand a descale has restored it to how it has usually behaved.
> 
> 2,500 shots and something like 1200x 300ml water for large americano.


 Thanks, l am going to do that. Just checked it out on YouTube tutorials 👍😊


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