# La Pav - One week in...



## davetucker (Apr 7, 2014)

So it's been a week since my La Pav & Mignon arrived.

*This is not a machine for the faint of heart.*

I've been using "bad beans" for the first week - Cafe Direct Macchu Piccu and Coffee #1 House Blend. Both roasted to oblivion and both (likely) outside of 3 months from roast date. So far I've made 2-3 shots a day and only 1 has been "good". So I've been reading on this forum, HB and others to find the "perfect" technique and I'm still lost in the wilderness... however here is what I've learnt.

*Rule #1* - The second shot is always the best

Group will likely be a little cold on first shot but up to temp for the second

*Rule #2* - The Grind is *super* important

Too coarse = Coffee flowing during pre-infusion (when you first lift the lever to the top)

Too fine = Lots of pressure on the lever, too stiff to pull down.

When too fine your PF WILL sneeze when removed and you WILL get everything covered in coffee

*Rule #3* - Dose between 12-14g and tamp light, just enough to settle the grounds.

*Rule #4* - Start simple. Refrain from Fellini moves until you can make a good drink with a single pull.

*Rule #5* - Measure everything and take notes. Grind (fine/coarse), grounds (g), extraction (g), pull time (secs)

This will help you narrow down what is going right/wrong.

Now for my questions...

*1) Where's my crema?*

The one good shot I had was 13g tamped very hard (30lbs+) which produced minimal crema. Every other shot no matter how fine the grind has produced little to no crema Much of this is probably down to the beans and I have 1Kg of Rave Signature en route so hopefully this will get better.

*2) Am I grinding too fine or not applying enough pressure?*

One thing I have noticed is that I only get flow throw one spout on my double PF when I grind finer.

I've checked the basket and PF and there is no blockage - runs fine with water from a jug...

Could this be related to my tamping or my grind?

*3) How much pressure should I put on the lever?*

I've seen people claiming that 30lbs-50lbs of pressure should produce a great shot...

I think I've probably been on the lighter side of this (10lbs? Not putting much force on the lever at all).

Hopefully with some more practice and some pointers I should start to get some decent shots soon!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Fresh beans will make a massive difference to the taste and extraction , stale beans won't give you a huge amount of crema.

Don't get suckered into relating quality of shot to the amount of creme produced. On its own a huge creme on a shot isn't indicative of a great tasting shot ( example a heavy Robusta blend )

Re techniques , once again Coffee chap is your man on levers. Im sure he give you some pointers on this machine ( which i have no experience of sorry )


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## Orangertange (Jul 4, 2013)

like boots said, if your not using fresh beans no hope off creama,

i used to dose about 15gs on my pavoni, and so there was a bit of resistance, but not so much that you have to put your weight into it,

hold the porter filter with one hand so you don't put any pressure on the boiler, lift, pre infuse four a few seconds, no coffe should drip through, then lower the lever just until you feel pressure, then raise and pull the shot,

and don't fink feeeel as Bruce lee would say

hope that helps,

may get my one cranked up again after this,


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## Joe the fish (Feb 12, 2014)

I am playing the same games with a caravel arrarax lever so hopefully a few things are similar, as has already been said old beans will give you little to no crema, too little pressure will do similar too (thin short lived crema) obviously barring mechanical faults the pressure comes from the pull and the grind. I'm working with a single basket at the moment but have had best results with dose about as suggested (7g for my basket) and a light tamp, have tried a hard tamp but was little to no difference in the cup.

The one thing I found was to watch the colour, especially with my single basket I have found it easy to end up blinding quickly and in fact a full pull plus a small basket seems to blonde every time so consider stopping early or removing the cup as required.

as you said knowing what your doing and changing each time is important so keep notes and change one thing at a time. Also spend some time learning your machine before questing for a godshot... I spent a week learning the temp characteristics of my lever and found that a 2-5 degree water temp change in the boiler made a huge difference in the cup.

Oh and I'm a big convert to declumping your grinds (what grinder do you have?) it solved my issues with uneven flow.

good luck and keep at it!


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## davetucker (Apr 7, 2014)

Point taken on beans. I was naive enough to think that any beans would do while I get my technique down with shots being sinked and grounds thrown out.

Waiting for the Rave Signature to rest and drinking my IMM from my Wave for now.

Joe, orangertange thanks for the pointers! I'd been focussing a lot on the grind and lever technique but had completely neglected dosing and tamping.

The Mignon likes to drop boulders in to the basket so I should probably do something about that. Been reading up on the WDT and will give that a try along with NSEW tamping (or something else maybe) as I've noticed a lot of grounds up the side of the basket.

I've also picked up one of these:

http://www.colourchanging.co.uk/thermometers/digitemp-7-level-dual-scale/90-120a-c-liquid-crystal-thermometers/prod_177.html

Will be using it to check the temperature of the group and make sure I'm in the right range.


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## aFiercePancake (Dec 8, 2013)

davetucker said:


> I've also picked up one of these:
> 
> http://www.colourchanging.co.uk/thermometers/digitemp-7-level-dual-scale/90-120a-c-liquid-crystal-thermometers/prod_177.html
> 
> Will be using it to check the temperature of the group and make sure I'm in the right range.


Smart man. It took me a few years to figure out how important group head temperature is.

1. Fresh beans equates to more crema as noted previously. Be careful not to get obsessed with crema, however. More crema does not necessarily mean better shots.

2. Coffee will flow from one spout if the machine is not flat or if the extraction is taking place off-center. Neither is particularly bad, but it might suggest you need to work on distribution and/or tamping.

3. A fair bit of pressure on the lever is normal, but if you are struggling to push it down, then grind coarser and dose higher. Remember that the amount that you dose into the basket is another variable along with grind fineness and tamp pressure/technique.

Welcome to the world of nearly infinite variables-lever espresso machines in short.

The Europiccola is a demanding mistress. Keep trying and you will figure her out eventually!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

As mentioned before, all those variables that apply to other machines apply to this, which is all about portafilter prep! Temperature on the la pavonis is very important, as the group temp will rise after the first few shots are pulled, it can be cooled with an ice cold wet towel or an aluminium extrusion attachment, both work at bringing the temperature down. Using a group head temp tag will help you to read the temp and get consistency.

Pulling the shot is the challenge but once you work out the correct grind, dose, tamp to make the pull smooth you will be sorted. It is a learning curve but sooooooo rewarding when you nail it.


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## welshrarebit (Apr 17, 2014)

Could video your shot prep to the finished cup, may help people pick up any flaws in your technique.


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## davetucker (Apr 7, 2014)

welshrarebit said:


> Could video your shot prep to the finished cup, may help people pick up any flaws in your technique.


Gives me a few weeks to practice then I'll video my shot prep for critique and as a starting point for others...

This was my starting point - 






coffeechap said:


> As mentioned before, all those variables that apply to other machines apply to this, which is all about portafilter prep! Temperature on the la pavonis is very important, as the group temp will rise after the first few shots are pulled, it can be cooled with an ice cold wet towel or an aluminium extrusion attachment, both work at bringing the temperature down. Using a group head temp tag will help you to read the temp and get consistency.
> 
> Pulling the shot is the challenge but once you work out the correct grind, dose, tamp to make the pull smooth you will be sorted. It is a learning curve but sooooooo rewarding when you nail it.


Thanks CC. Neglecting portafilter prep was my main issue.



aFiercePancake said:


> Smart man. It took me a few years to figure out how important group head temperature is.
> 
> 1. Fresh beans equates to more crema as noted previously. Be careful not to get obsessed with crema, however. More crema does not necessarily mean better shots.
> 
> ...


Fresh beans make a shed load of difference! Got bored of waiting for my Rave to rest so I put last week's IMM in the hopper and got to preparing some espresso (Coincidentally I didn't like the Tanzanian Burka Bourbon N39 Washed for pour-over as there was too much acidity for me).

Used the previously mentioned WDT and NSEW tamp and I've been getting consistently drinkable shots...

Once the Rave is rested I'll start drilling down on my technique a little more as "beans" won't be a variable for a while


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## welshrarebit (Apr 17, 2014)

Glad you're finally getting drinkable shots!


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

I will not comment on the lever situation but having a Mignon qualifies me to comment on grinder stuff.

The MIgnon is a massive clumper, while I've not tried it myself some suggest misting the beans with some sort of water atomiser, my preference is a cocktail stick which I stir the grounds with while they are filling the PF. I also nutate and I feel this combination seems to sort out distribution.

Ian


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

A cork with 3 - 4 long fine needles in worked for me with clumping.


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