# Kopi Luwak, ethical or not?



## burningb (Jan 4, 2015)

As this review on Spam link removed (Rhys) suggests, can Kopi Luwak be ethical and responsibly sourced or should people steer clear altogether?


----------



## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Both on ethical grounds and the potential taste grounds (it's robusta from a cats ass after all) I'll be avoiding.


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

There is no way currently to guarantee that the beans were not produced from civets kept in battery cages. For that reason it is simply not ethical to purchase any Kopi Luwak.

Its a novelty more than anything else. Creating suffering for a novelty is just plain bad karma


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Neill said:


> Both on ethical grounds and the potential taste grounds (it's robusta from a cats ass after all) I'll be avoiding.


+1

It can only be 'ethical' if the faeces are literally picked up off the forest floor but I fail to see the attraction and as Ridland said it's prob neigh on impossible to guarantee.


----------



## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

No Ethical at all.

As long as demand exists, there will be people who exploit it by keeping civets in cages and force feeding them coffee.

The coffee beans they are fed aren't even very good quality, they would usually be classified as commodity beans not specialty.

A product for mugs.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

We've got 4 ragdoll cats, I can feed them coffee beans then post you their results.. It'll be pure pedigree poo coffee?


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

My dog is partial to the odd roasted bean. Whilst not intending to dig through it myself, anyone is welcome to offer me a price per pound to ship it to you.

I can guarantee she has not been force fed them and is pretty much free range unlike anything you liable to be able to trust if your desire is to perpetuate kopi catrap.

P.s. Dog is currently partial to the odd Ethiopian bean, so could pretty much guarantee a slightly floral whiff to her output. She's also a Karelian bear dog, a minor rarity sl that's got to push the price up as well?

All humour aside and to answer the question, not.

John


----------



## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

My dog just chews the beans and spits them out, maybe someone wants to buy them, save scooping through poo?


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Ours likes a well developed bean for sure, has been known to pass on some very light roasts that turned out to be not very well roasted. All that gut flora must makes well develop bean extraordinary, carp of excellence even !

John


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Kopi Luwak, marketing Hype with an immoral and unethical undertone ,and a way of selling poor quality and cheap coffee at a premium price .

IMO This coffee gets more discussion than it deserves


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

burningb said:


> As this review on coffee-grinders.co.uk suggests, can Kopi Luwak be ethical and responsibly sourced or should people steer clear altogether?


Yes. Civets are omnivores. Coffee cherries make up a portion of their diet in the wild. There is no ethical way of caging them and force feeding them coffee cherries.


----------



## Sk8-bizarre (Jan 22, 2015)

Just buy your own green bean or even fresh cherry eat it, s*** in a bucket and then sift through your own. Leave the poor beasties alone I reckon ethical or not it ain't right whatever. Bloody curious how someone found out in the first place but as a general rule I'd say once its been through you once it's best left alone.

If you are gonna drink it then you should be locked in a cage and force fed the coffee but hey that's just my opinion.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I cannot think of a single industry in which humans use animals for food or service in which they are not exploited to some degree.

It is especially true of the food industry and intense farming of animals, the conditions and the treatment is horrendous and the miles the meat does to get to your plate appalling, and to boot it contributes highly disproportionately to global warming (especially beef).

Most of us know all this and still eat meat of all kinds. However all that said it is much easier to avoid 'luxury' items like Kopi Luwak or foie gras than the meat we are used to eating every day, and when there is no reason for it (KL is just marketing, better coffee can be had for much MUCH less) it seems insane to contribute to exploitation more than we already are.


----------



## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Western society eats too much meat. That this is bad for us, let alone the animal slaughtered has pretty much been proven by numerous studies. If we go to a diet like the Mediterranean or East Asian where meat was not in every meal, and when used portions were small because it was used more as a flavour enhancement human health improves. I'm an omnivore after spending the majority of my life as a vegetarian. I went back to eating meat when I could not get on with being a vegan. The animals which produce the eggs and dairy for a vegetarian diet end up in the food chain and therefore a vegetarian diet produces suffering of food animals, even if you are too squeamish to eat it yourself.

Many "western" health problems are increasing in China as their wealth increases and they adopt a more meat centric Western diet.

This is all off topic but another thing to note is that it was demonstrated that the British public has never been healthier or better fed than during the rationing of WWII and the early fifties. The diet then had limited access to meat and people ate a much higher proportion of veg and whole grains.

If only I could kick my bacon, sausage and cheese habits I could be a vegan quite happily. All the analogues for those things are cack, so for the time being I will continue as an omnivore but continue to try and limit my meat consumption as much as I can. Not for the animals, I am ashamed to say, but for my own health.



Dylan said:


> I cannot think of a single industry in which humans use animals for food or service in which they are not exploited to some degree.
> 
> It is especially true of the food industry and intense farming of animals, the conditions and the treatment is horrendous and the miles the meat does to get to your plate appalling, and to boot it contributes highly disproportionately to global warming (especially beef).
> 
> Most of us know all this and still eat meat of all kinds. However all that said it is much easier to avoid 'luxury' items like Kopi Luwak or foie gras than the meat we are used to eating every day, and when there is no reason for it (KL is just marketing, better coffee can be had for much MUCH less) it seems insane to contribute to exploitation more than we already are.


----------



## Kelvinnator (Oct 29, 2020)

I have done a fair bit of research on this & I have a personal bias towards this, simply because I loved Kopi Luwak.

So at the risk of being contrarian, I have learnt of several roasters and producers who do not cage the civets. That's not to say that they let them roam about freely but they are still allowed to roam about a vast land.

So if you've found yourselves in between a decision making conundrum, there are several companies out there that ensure a 100% wild kopi luwak like this one {https://gayokopi.com/our-commitment/]. You just have to ensure you've done your homework.

But mostly people do not like the flavor profile anyway, so it hardly matters.


----------



## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Dylan said:


> I cannot think of a single industry in which humans use animals for food or service in which they are not exploited to some degree.


 Cormorant fishing in China.

It's a thing of beauty


----------

