# tamping? question



## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

Is this supposed to happen? I get always some sort of damage to the puck when inspecting it after the shot has been extracted. Either a 2mm deep channel 3mm wide from the edge of the portafilter thing. OR I get some sort of slight crators in the puck. NEVER have I got a perfect puck out. Is this normal.

If you can you advise any errors I may be making? The image does not show that well but there is a slight channel all around the edges of the portafilter .


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I may be wrong, but your grind looks way too coarse.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

If you have overfilled the basket initially the coffee has nowhere to bloom (the space between the top of the compressed puck and the showerhead) and expand.

This may cause the coffee to try and expand around the sides of the grouphead, resulting in the channel you see.

Try dropping the dose weight to 14g and work upwards from there.

Also, try grinding finer. Even though the grounds have swelled with the water they shouldn't be this big.

If you have a screw in the group head you should be able to see the indent in the top of the puck, but no grooves or channels at all

What size Tamper are you using? Is it 58mm or less than that?

Do you have a glass shot glass?

Can you weight your dose, then extract for 25 seconds, then post the photo? (ideally with shot weight too)


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

Yes! I will weigh a 14g then on electonic scales and extract as you say for 25 seconds and post a photo tomorrow. (Will be interesting for me as I admit I have not bothered weighing grounds I just relyed on making it so the single or double shot of grounds was touching or just about touching the pertruding screw on the gaggia machine.)

About the grind.. I can hear the machine kinda stressing a bit already and I didn't want to put too much strain on it as I have just had one baby dose go belly up from too much back flushing. PS I am not an expert maybe my grind IS too corse.

The tamper I use is a happy donkey 15 pound job. Its ok but I have my reservations about it.. 2 reasons, I measured it at 57mm (not sure if it was sold at 58?) .. I measured the portafilter inserts at 59mm So this means there is always 2mm gap. Kinda dumb isn't it? Yes I do tamp around the edges tho. I am considering making my own tamper why dont they sell ones that fit perfectly!

Thx will post back tomorrow


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## DavidS (Apr 8, 2010)

Don't analyses the puck after shot. It's going from nine bar to one in less than a second, some coffee is going to get disrupted. Get a bottomless PF if you're that concerned.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Grind is way too coarse dude, I`m amazed you can get a pour to last 25 secs that would be espresso sized. Your tamper is the standard size as you need little bit of clearance between it and the filter basket otherwise it`ll get stuck. I made my own which is 57.5mm, any bigger and it jams in the basket on a Gaggia or Rancilio, not right at the top though, the basket tapers inwards.

What sort of tamping pressure are you applying, I would guess a lot to get any sort of success with the coarse grind. The wisdom says around 30lb tamping pressure should be about right, get the dose of coffee to 14g and adjust the grind to achieve a 25 second pour. That is a starting point as most folks tweak their technique and quantities for different beans and machines as Glenn advises in his post.

As for the machine stressing, i assume that is the pump being put under load that you are talking about. Thats normal and as long as your pour starts within a few moments nothing to worry about, the sound changes as the pressure ramps up. It is an issue if you are choking the machine and no coffee comes out of the PF spouts at all as the pump is under full load until switched off however. The pump will handle a brief period under full load for example when back flushing and TBH the pump is one of the easiest parts to replace if it wears out or starts to lose performance which they do over time.

What grinder are you using?, getting a grinder that will produce the fineness and consistency of grind for espresso is very important, if not the most important.

Don


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

If one of the forum members is nearby, you could perhaps hook up for some hands on advice about technique and equipment. I learned basics from a local barista, read a lot on the web and watched some youtube vids, though be careful not to take everything you see or read as correct. One vid I saw had a guy showing his technique and he must have been using a100lb tamp two or three times on his coffee to get a slow pour as the preground coffee wasn`t fine enough or mega stale. (he was a really big old american fella and you could see the amount of effort he was having to put into it)

Don


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

thanks for all the replys! I guess my grounds needs to be much finer. I have an iberital mc2. It stoped working for like 10 seconds last week so I frantically started pushing buttons turning nobs but it started working again for no good reason
















Anyhoo thats all just doesn't matter I know to use a finer grind and watch the amount of espresso (water) I get out after 25 seconds, I guess I should have realised that already but actually not.

This pic I just took of 14g 1 week old grounds. I think it can still be a bit finer. I Will keep ajusting.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Much much finer is required.

Keep fining the grind until you can only just feel the grain between your fingers when you pinch it and rub between thumb and forefinger

The Iberital MC2 can jam when a bean is lodged in between the burrs.

Shake the grinder or tap the back of the top collar and the machine should start again

Throw away any old grounds, and grind fresh each time.

I would advocate a little training too if possible. You'll notice the difference within minutes.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Below is a side by side of puck and grounds at an espresso grind from an Iberital MC2

Note the size of the grinds compared to yours and aim for this as a starting point









Please excuse the picture quality - straight from camera with no processing other than a crop


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

You don't want the flow blonding and watery looking until into the 20's seconds and you are looking for about 2 to 3 ozs in quantity terms.


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## davey (Dec 16, 2009)

cool, thx for the puck pic.

Banish instant, 20 seconds!!!! I am sure mine goes from brown to yellow in 2 seconds.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Thats the coarse grind you have been using, once you get the finer grind sorted I think you will experience a great leap forward in the taste of your espresso


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