# Sage Failure Rate



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

*Sage Failure Rate Poll *​
*Specific to Sage espresso machines, which one of the following best applies to you? (please comment reason for failure if known and any early warning signs you noticed)*

My machine failed just outside of warranty.39.09%My machine failed in warranty and was repaired/replaced.515.15%My machine has not yet required repairs (less than 2 years).1030.30%My machine has not yet required repairs (less than 5 years).721.21%My machine has not yet required repairs (less than 10 years).13.03%I've experience multiple machine failures and replacements.721.21%


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

A lot of people knock the Sage machines. When I was shopping around for my first machine I considered the Dual Boiler as it seemed a great price for the features and was counter friendly. I decided against it because I wanted to be able to repair the machine myself should it fail. The ability to service and repair my own equipment is one of the most important considerations for me. The failure rate was not a concern so much as the knowledge is would eventually fail, whether in 5, 10, or 20 years, and I wouldn't be able to fix it. Understandably some people are not so concerned by this; people buy new phones every year for £500-£1k a pop (they are never free) so why be concerned about a £500 machine breaking in two years? Admittedly I advise people against buying Sage machines because of my own spending preferences and concerns over a loss of value that not everyone shares.

Not wanting to falsely give people the impression Sage machines fail more often than they do, I thought I would create this poll to help owners and prospective buyers accurately determine how often Sage machines fail. This may also be of use to owners who could learn of warning signs that there is a fault with their machine that they may be able to fix themselves before it becomes something more serious that requires a service centre.


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## General-S-1 (Jul 27, 2015)

10 months in Sage BE. So far so good

🤞


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

My Bambino Plus has developed a fault after 3 months - waiting for replacement to come into stock and it's getting returned.


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## longhardgrind (Mar 17, 2017)

My Barista Express Is with Coffee Classics getting the by volume failure fixed. My old DTP had to have a selector switch replaced, but otherwise is still working like a dream while I await the return of my BE.


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## earthflattener (Jul 27, 2015)

I've a Dual Boiler, but for too short a period of a time to meaningfully count in your survey...

One thing that might bias results though is that many Sage users are on their first machine and some of those may not be treating it very well through lack of knowledge or interest. It is difficult to compare apples with apples if the user profiles are very different.

Also, worth noting that there is an active 'repair' community in the US https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/breville-dual-boiler-mods-and-maintenance-t61421.html. The problem over here seems to be getting parts, but at least simple things like rings etc. can be found to deal with leaks which are common failures.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am sure the failure% with Sage is not high particularly, bt because thy sell so many units the actual numbers are huge


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## mcwill (Aug 9, 2020)

Would you count a split group seal as a failure or just normal wear and tear?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

earthflattener said:


> One thing that might bias results though is that many Sage users are on their first machine and some of those may not be treating it very well through lack of knowledge or interest. It is difficult to compare apples with apples if the user profiles are very different.


 There's nothing to bias results. No comparison is being made.

Besides many people who are using more expensive machines and/or are more experienced don't take care of them properly either. An awful lot of people don't know what causes scale to form, many don't regularly flush service boilers despite regular use to steam, many don't backflush as often as they should etc. You'd expect to see it causing problems of course. One of the reasons I asked for comment on the reason for the fault e.g.limescale buildup was to try and account for user abuse.

@mcwill ordinary wear and tear. Can you buy a replacement? If not you might be able to make one.


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## mcwill (Aug 9, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> @mcwill ordinary wear and tear. Can you buy a replacement? If not you might be able to make one.


 Replacement purchased and fitted, Sage didn't have any in stock but I was able to find a couple on Amazon


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Forgive my ignorance, but why do so many people say Sage are non repairable? Are they withholding parts outside of warranty? Have they deliberately designed it in such a way as to make it impossible to service? Both of these practices would be very underhand, especially in the repair and recycle world most aspire to live in these days.

They must be at least part hand assembled so I don't understand the difficulty


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

cold war kid said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but why do so many people say Sage are non repairable? Are they withholding parts outside of warranty? Have they deliberately designed it in such a way as to make it impossible to service? Both of these practices would be very underhand, especially in the repair and recycle world most aspire to live in these days.
> 
> They must be at least part hand assembled so I don't understand the difficulty


 I think you can do basic servicing with gasket material or gaskets of the right size but if you need new parts (like a heating element, boiler, control board etc, not basic common parts like pumps and valves) the only thing you can do is pay for a repair and send the machine away. I'm prepared to be wrong though....


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## Matt1983 (May 7, 2020)

I have had my dual boiler for about 6 months and love it. I had a barista express before which I had for 4 years and never had a problem with it. I look after my coffee stuff and keep it clean. Most of the failures with the dual boiler are just o rings normally and occasionally the pump. The later models use different pipe connections which don't use o rings so they don't tend to fail. The pump and solenoids are Italian and used in lots of other espresso machines so replacements will be easy to get should you need them.


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## konzumpro (Aug 30, 2020)

Barista Pro, two failures in the first 4 months. First time something broken, now it's giving up brewing, steaming and beeps three times after 5 seconds. I think that some water remained inside the machine and it's condensed on controller and sensors. It's returned for repair under warranty.


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## konzumpro (Aug 30, 2020)

It's repaired under warranty, and now it's works again. Broken pipe replaced with other kind of connector and pipes wired together with a plastic tube.

Now it's SBP MkII


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Where did that go for ''repair'' ?


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## prezes (Apr 17, 2018)

I've been using DTP since March 2018 and had no issues whatsoever ... yet!

I live in hard water area and use bottled water/Brita filtered water and descale every 5 weeks.


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## MC1 (Jul 2, 2018)

Had my DTP since March 2018 also. Gets used at least once per day and I have experienced no problems whatsoever. Gets descaled once every 2 months so not as much as I could do to be honest. I also live in a hard water area but use normal tap water with the filter in the tank.

Even though I could probably look after it better than I do, it has never let me down and I wouldn't want anything more at the minute. I don't understand why they get a bad reputation with some people.


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## strutsinaction (Jun 18, 2020)

Sage Oracle Touch

So far 2 issues within the first 12 months of ownership (used more or less everyday, approx 4 coffees per day):

1) Crack in portafilter handle

2) Cracked inner shower screen

Both parts replaced under warranty (although in both cases the replacement items took > 8 weeks to arrive).


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

2.5 years with Duo Temp Pro and Smart Grinder, no problems to date and I enjoy coffee every day ☕ Today was the perfect time in current weather 🌧 to descale the machine, proper procedure everything, now ready for more coffees 👍 The stuff I use found works best for me.


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## coffeenated (Sep 5, 2014)

Owned a Sage Duo Temp Pro since November 2017. Does anywhere between 6-8 brew cycles per day. Failed in July 2020 due to a clogged hose (I detailed the fix here). I clean and descale every 5-8 weeks.


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## stingray (Aug 4, 2020)

cold war kid said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but why do so many people say Sage are non repairable? Are they withholding parts outside of warranty? Have they deliberately designed it in such a way as to make it impossible to service? Both of these practices would be very underhand, especially in the repair and recycle world most aspire to live in these days.
> 
> They must be at least part hand assembled so I don't understand the difficulty


 I certainly won't buy another Sage. My BE had died and there is no service or repair option worth considering. Landfill here we come !


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## Callum_Pg (Oct 28, 2020)

dutchy101 said:


> My Bambino Plus has developed a fault after 3 months - waiting for replacement to come into stock and it's getting returned.


 What was the issue? What was the root caused?


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## prezes (Apr 17, 2018)

stingray said:


> I certainly won't buy another Sage. My BE had died and there is no service or repair option worth considering. Landfill here we come !


 I am happy with my DTP to date but it's very worrying reading all the comments about zero service available. You'd expect more from Sage.


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

Callum_Pg said:


> What was the issue? What was the root caused?


 Excessive vibration I think. The new / replaced machine vibrates far less than the original one


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## Callum_Pg (Oct 28, 2020)

Sounds great, good to hear that you have resolved the issue

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

coffeenated said:


> Owned a Sage Duo Temp Pro since November 2017. Does anywhere between 6-8 brew cycles per day. Failed in July 2020 due to a clogged hose (I detailed the fix here). I clean and descale every 5-8 weeks.


 Interesting to hear that happened despite regular cleaning and descaling.

This thread seems to have become a place where people come to say they have a Sage and it hasn't broken yet. If everybody does that it'll be a very long thread and not really of any use to anyone at all. I get you might want to defend a brand you like from an onslaught of negative press but that isn't the purpose of the thread; that you have an expensive machine and it hasn't broken over the course of a few years should be a given.

Replies like the one above are useful in that they let people know a regular maintenance/descale schedule might not be enough to prevent an expensive machine breaking after a few years and not everyone would be comfortable or able to make such a repair themselves. A few people who have responded so far might want to check for build-up before a fault occurs after reading it. @prezes @MC1 you may have just received ~6 months advanced warning.



prezes said:


> I've been using DTP since March 2018 and had no issues whatsoever ... yet! I live in hard water area and use bottled water/Brita filtered water and descale every 5 weeks.





MC1 said:


> Had my DTP since March 2018 also. Gets used at least once per day and I have experienced no problems whatsoever. Gets descaled once every 2 months so not as much as I could do to be honest. I also live in a hard water area but use normal tap water with the filter in the tank.
> 
> Even though I could probably look after it better than I do, it has never let me down and I wouldn't want anything more at the minute. I don't understand why they get a bad reputation with some people.


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