# Due pulling my hair out



## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

Spent so long reading every guide to buying machines/grinders on here and after scouring the web and the usual market sites I still haven't come to a decision. I've went from considering the sage DTP but these have went back up in price so I'm irritated at that - also no adjustable PID or visible gauge. Considered the BE however I've come across so many posts saying that inbuilt grinders just don't cut it so I don't see the point buying a machine that has one just to buy another grinder. Moved on to looking at Fracino Machines, found that these have recently went up in price after looking at old posts on the forum - also some members questioning their value for money. I have considered the gaggia classic and silvia however after seeing the number of people that have modded these machines I would rather purchase a machine that already meets these needs. At the moment I am just scouring the used market to try and find a used machine and grinder that ticks all the boxes and fits my budget. I didn't realise it was this much hard work. I am trying to keep my budget around 500/600 however it is a struggle with all the lovely machines I keep seeing. I would obviously rather spend less. Currently looking at Lelits Anna with PID and Fred grinder. But I can't seem to find any feedback on these machines. Only youtube videos of people making espressos on them. I'm due just giving up and going back to my tub of azera instant in the cupboard.

rant over

Any thoughts or recommendations are welcomed.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I don't think the Lelits are very popular in the UK and Europe overall. They are much more popular in Australia as far as I know.

You should do well for £500/600 if you keep an eye on the For Sale section on this forum. You may be able to pick an already modded second Gaggia Classic for £150/£170 and a second hand Eureka Mignon for £170/200, so that's under £400. In my honest opinion, it's a great startup setup, which should keep you going for a while. Then, as you find out more about espresso go deeper into your journey, you should be able to resell your kit for almost the same price you paid for, and then opt for an upgrade later on.

Hope that helps.


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

I have seen a number of gaggias for sale - however I have been uncertain whether or not I should just pay the extra for peace of mind/warranty. I need to stop being so indecisive.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Kristopher said:


> Spent so long reading every guide to buying machines/grinders on here and after scouring the web and the usual market sites I still haven't come to a decision. I've went from considering the sage DTP but these have went back up in price so I'm irritated at that - also no adjustable PID or visible gauge. Considered the BE however I've come across so many posts saying that inbuilt grinders just don't cut it so I don't see the point buying a machine that has one just to buy another grinder. Moved on to looking at Fracino Machines, found that these have recently went up in price after looking at old posts on the forum - also some members questioning their value for money. I have considered the gaggia classic and silvia however after seeing the number of people that have modded these machines I would rather purchase a machine that already meets these needs. At the moment I am just scouring the used market to try and find a used machine and grinder that ticks all the boxes and fits my budget. I didn't realise it was this much hard work. I am trying to keep my budget around 500/600 however it is a struggle with all the lovely machines I keep seeing. I would obviously rather spend less. Currently looking at Lelits Anna with PID and Fred grinder. But I can't seem to find any feedback on these machines. Only youtube videos of people making espressos on them. I'm due just giving up and going back to my tub of azera instant in the cupboard.
> 
> rant over
> 
> Any thoughts or recommendations are welcomed.


I've owned a PID-modded Classic, a Fracino Cherub and a DTP and the DTP is my favourite of the lot (although steam power is pitiful compared to the Cherub).


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Fracino Classico £600.00

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_type=t&share_fid=6813&share_tid=41386&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D41386

Is this still for sale perhaps?


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

fatboyslim said:


> I've owned a PID-modded Classic, a Fracino Cherub and a DTP and the DTP is my favourite of the lot (although steam power is pitiful compared to the Cherub).


You are not making me feel any better - I had plenty of opportunities to purchase the DTP but I was too busy "researching" haha

As for the Fracino Classico - I believe I seen that earlier, it is at the top of my budget and would leave me little funds to purchase a grinder unfortunately.

EDIT: it is a beautiful machine though, very tempting


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Yes I've talked myself out of that one a few times to be honest. I'm very happy with my DTP though so no need to move on from it.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

AO.com are selling DTP on eBay for £249.99


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

Now I just need a grinder


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Kristopher said:


> Now I just need a grinder


Haha did you buy it?!


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

Once I find a suitable grinder to pair with it I will just buy both at once. I know everyone is going to say "buy commercial" but my space is limited unfortunately. Cant see any second hand mignons on eBay. How is sages smart grinder pro?


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Kristopher said:


> Once I find a suitable grinder to pair with it I will just buy both at once. I know everyone is going to say "buy commercial" but my space is limited unfortunately. Cant see any second hand mignons on eBay. How is sages smart grinder pro?


Limited space? As in overhead cupboards? If that's the case, just remove the hopper from a Super Jolly or Major and used a collapsible lens hood, or AeroPress funnel. I've had both (still got the Major) and they both fit under kitchen cabinets. Grinders are more important than machines, as the machine can only use what you put into it.


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

Rhys said:


> Limited space? As in overhead cupboards? If that's the case, just remove the hopper from a Super Jolly or Major and used a collapsible lens hood, or AeroPress funnel. I've had both (still got the Major) and they both fit under kitchen cabinets. Grinders are more important than machines, as the machine can only use what you put into it.


Do you have any other recommendations for grinders other than the jolly whilst I scour eBay.

My only concern about purchasing a DTP is that it has no pressure gauge. Is this not an issue for people. How do you know if you are reaching optimal brewing conditions.


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

Also many of the mazzers on eBay are obviously ex commercial use. Does anyone have any tips on how much to pay for what condition etc?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Kristopher said:


> Do you have any other recommendations for grinders other than the jolly whilst I scour eBay.
> 
> My only concern about purchasing a DTP is that it has no pressure gauge. Is this not an issue for people. How do you know if you are reaching optimal brewing conditions.


If it tastes good... So weigh in and out, and time it. (All of those things are "ballpark" not science, because it's an artform not a science experiment... But generally starting with 1:2 in ~25-30 seconds using scales to measure will mean you can adjust from there) I've never used a machine with a pressure gauge, and subjectively my coffee is great (and objectively I hit the tasting notes on the bags)


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Kristopher said:


> Do you have any other recommendations for grinders other than the jolly whilst I scour eBay.
> 
> My only concern about purchasing a DTP is that it has no pressure gauge. Is this not an issue for people. How do you know if you are reaching optimal brewing conditions.


There are pressure gauges doing the rounds (or buy one) that can fit to the filter basket (well, they can on a Gaggia Classic anyway as the spout unscrews off) and then the pressure can be tested. Unfortunately I don't know if the portafilter can have a gauge fitted - but it's a thought.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

If you can hold your horses for a while you will find the big boys like Lakeland and Harts of Stur will have a special offer/sale on sometime soon. They do so several times a year. Then having done your research (and bought the wig!) you will be ready to move.

The advantage of the two named sellers (and poss others) is that they have extended guarantees over the makers own, and a very good customer service department.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I fit a gauge to my DTP and after the first few shots, I haven't really looked at it again. There hasn't been the need to as its tasting good so I'm just sticking to what I'm doing


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I believe BB will be stocking Lelit very soon


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

if you really cannot wait and are set on new, the really basic delonghi (about £100 in tesco/argos etc) can be made unpressurised without any tools (make sure it is the BASKET that has the rubber ring/plastic disc inside and the gizmo for crema screwed under it, and NOT the portafilter). Or you can get a proper basket for £8 (albeit you need to fettle that with pliers a bit apparently)









Paired with a decent grinder you can get up and running then replace the machine when you have topped your budget up. Whilst it's not going to win any awards, you wont have invested much if you change your mind, you can spend the money on the important bit (grinder) and there is no DIY involved in converting it so you could restore it after and get half your money back towards your next machine, it is tiny and you'll have to do it all yourself, so you're not cheating. Its the setup I have just now and the coffee aint bad at all, for the money it's cracking.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I believe BB will be stocking Lelit very soon


They stock a couple of models, but they dont carry the Anna (PL41 range) as they have the Rancilio Silvia and view that as the more established alternative. I did ask BB if they would supply a PL41 but they didn't reply.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Adjsuable pid and gauge are overrated for entry level machines.

You need a stable temp , not particularly one you can adjust .....

I know the Yanks are all about dialling in espresso by temp , but IMHO its the last adjustment you need to make .

Re gauge, the taste, brew ratio and time and pour will tell you everything you need to know about a shot as opposed to what a gauge is telling you .


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## Tsangpa (Nov 26, 2017)

There's a mignon with warranty left on the for sale forums here for £230

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?42155-Eureka-Mignon-Full-chrome-grinder-with-warranty

and the DTP is on AO online for £249 https://ao.com/product/bes810bssuk-sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-duo-temp-pro-espresso-coffee-machine-stainless-steel-34789-66.aspx

or you can wait until Lakeland get them back in stock next week and hope they're still at £249 with them


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> I believe BB will be stocking Lelit very soon


BB selling them right now - see website. I suspect this will drive a good UK ownership base for these now.

The fact B.B. sell them means they're good and peace of mind for warranty, servicing etc


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Kristopher said:


> Now I just need a grinder


I'm sure this person was on this forum? maybe of interest

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Musica-Lux-Cofee-Machine-complete-with-matching-dosing-Grinder-/222776809865?


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

I am currently considering the mignon on that was posted in this thread if it's still for sale, although I would need to organise courier collection for it as I'm in Scotland.

As for machine if the sage DTP is still 250 on eBay it will probably be that. I keep seeing lovely machines for sale which encourages me to increase my budget. Haha.

Thank you all for the advice and recommendations, it's much appreciated. I think I've spent too long trying to tick every box. I was also smitten by the lelits looks compared to sage. On the subject of lelit - there is an Anna with PID for 280 + 40 postage from Bulgaria on ebay.


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## Kristopher (Dec 29, 2017)

Jony said:


> I'm sure this person was on this forum? maybe of interest
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Musica-Lux-Cofee-Machine-complete-with-matching-dosing-Grinder-/222776809865?


I have also looked into this machine after seeing many positive comments. However it is is pushing my budget haha.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

No scratch that^ try keep it in the Uk.


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