# Limescale



## sumo (Mar 29, 2016)

I've just ordered a Duetto for my office, it won't see that heavy use but maybe up to 20 espressos a day. We're in London so the water is awful but I'm not going to be able to convince my boss to order a supply of bottled water just for it, and there's even less chance of getting my colleagues to not be lazy and just fill the reservoir from the tap. What's best to use to stopping or reducing limescale build up? I've seen sachets you put in the bottom of the water tank but do they work?


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

If you know your water isn't too good, I'd filter on principle, and discipline yourself to regular descaling. Not at all difficult on the majority of machines.


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## sumo (Mar 29, 2016)

What kind of filter do you reckon is best for using with a reservoir rather than mains?


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

My Expobar uses one of these in the tank, on the end of the feed tube:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Softener-Cartridge-For-Espresso-Coffee-Machine-Maker-descaler-resin-/281948740604?hash=item41a5745bfc:gHAAAOSwh-1W2-so

plus I use a Brita filter jug. I'm in a softer water area, so you'll most likely change things and descale more frequently than I do!

Hopefully someone will be along soon who has more first-hand experience of hard water areas.. CF is a great place for this kind of thing!


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

Get a cheap TDS meter (£7-8) and measure the hardness of your water. Depending on the results you might need more than a simple Brita filter.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

London water is horrendous. Whatever the boss says, either bottled water or a proper filter will save a lot of heartache.


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## sumo (Mar 29, 2016)

I'm not likely going to be able to get a proper plumbed in filter. Is there any alternative? Are the water softeners that sit in the reservoir any good? Will Brita filtering from a jug be enough maybe?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

sumo said:


> I'm not likely going to be able to get a proper plumbed in filter. Is there any alternative? Are the water softeners that sit in the reservoir any good? Will Brita filtering from a jug be enough maybe?


No, water softners that sit in the reservoir accumulating bacteria are not any good. With a Brita filtering jug, possibly if you change the filter every 3-7 days....depending on usage and I do mean every 3-7 days.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

It's unlikely that you will find a workable solution to tap water without plumbing in, London water is one of the worst for scale. The in tank softeners are almost certainly a waste of time for scale but might help remove particulates.

You're options are

1. Plumbed Filter at work or at home and bring filtered water in each day in bottles.

2. Bulk order Volvic

3. Get a new job


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Lol #3!


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Don't you have a water cooler thing?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Missy said:


> Don't you have a water cooler thing?


I've tested a few water coolers and the water has always been high bicarb mineral water which although probably not as bad as London tap water would still result in scale and should be used with caution.


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## sumo (Mar 29, 2016)

Jeez ok. I'll try and use bottled water then, I think that will be easiest.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

sumo said:


> Jeez ok.


Sorry it's such a hardship, you could always continue to use tap water and have it "explode" like your Rocket......


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

sumo said:


> Are the water softeners that sit in the reservoir any good?


My water hardness is similar to London levels.

I tried a reservoir pouch filter - measured the TDS (water softness) before and after. It made no difference. Waste of money.

I also tried a brita water jug filter - marginally better, but still not good.

I ended up plumbing in a decent filter to get the results I wanted.

If you are serious your choices are plumbed in filter or bottled. If your not serious then replace your exploding machine regularly and put up with crap tasting coffee.


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

Yet another reason I'm glad I live where I do! ;-)


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## sumo (Mar 29, 2016)

Cheers for that. It's a shame the pouches don't seem to be effective. I'll have to go down the bottled water approach and leave passive aggressive post-it notes for my colleagues.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Why not make it easy for them:

Leave the filtered water in a jug directly to the side of the machine or same for bottled volvic / waitrose essentials / etc. If volvic, decant into a 5L container if Waitrose essential only buy in 5L's but keep some smaller bottles of same right in front for those not wishing / able to pick up the bigger bottle.

People are intrinsically lazy, leave it cleose to hand people will use it in preference to walking any distance even if only a couple of feet to get water from a tap.

Failing that, filter the tap, good for drinking water as well then, plenty of options out there and then no need to plumb in the machine.

John


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I did an experiment a while back. I descaled the kettle and used it normally for 6 months, after which I took a picture. Then I descaled the kettle again and then made sure that for the next 6 months it was only refilled with water from a Brita water filter. The filter was changed every month. Then I took another picture. The results show that Brita Water filters certainly change something, I'm just not sure if the improvement is worthwhile. For me I would rather use Ashbeck and not bother to descale again.

















I should add I live in London the TDS here is around 270


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## hubrad (May 6, 2013)

London, eh?

On my readings around, it seems the Brita jug filters are predominantly activated carbon, and work more as water cleaners. Water softening is a further action, performed nowadays with the resin filters. Citric acid will descale, but as we know we don't want that in our water or coffee!

The muckier and harder your water, the more active filter stuff you need.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

We've got filtered water coolers at work, cartridges appear to be for scale reduction but that's another big one off cost. I think there's a good argument for a proper commercial descaling filter connected to a drinking water tap which can then be used to fill the machine, or just to plumb it in.


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

There is no way around it Im afraid. Tesco Ashbeck is a good bottled water & cheap around £1.10 for 5 litreshttp://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=267832188


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## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

I have used Ashbeck for several years, bizarrely it is cheaper in 6 packs of 2 litres than any other way. This is good as one bottle virtually fills the reservoir when the alarm sounds.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

The water here is virtually undrinkable. We have been using bottled water for years. For the first time I took a look inside our kettle today.......it surprised me to see that is was squeaky clean, no evidence of limescale whatsoever!!

so I guess it'll be good for my new Silvia?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

nicholasj said:


> The water here is virtually undrinkable. We have been using bottled water for years. For the first time I took a look inside our kettle today.......it surprised me to see that is was squeaky clean, no evidence of limescale whatsoever!!
> 
> so I guess it'll be good for my new Silvia?


Id say yes,, if the kettles clear of scale then the silvia should enjoy that same water too,, unless you barely ever use the kettle, or the kettles new, or your partner, if you have one, descales the kettle without telling you.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Id say yes,, if the kettles clear of scale then the silvia should enjoy that same water too,, unless you barely ever use the kettle, or the kettles new, or your partner, if you have one, descales the kettle without telling you.


Thanks.....it's used two or three times each day and about three years old. Ha ha about the secret de scaling.....I'm afraid my wife just enjoys the cup of tea I take back up to her each morning!!! But I'm hoping to make her some excellent latte's soon, and espresso's for me. Cheers.


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## Kahweol (Apr 26, 2016)

Just so you know brita cartridges started including some decalcifying resin in addition to the carbon filter a number of years back, but its still no substitution for proper water treatment. Treating your coffee machine to bottled water is quite kind though









You still will need to descale on occasions, as I think kettles tend to accumulate less scale than a boiler which repeatedly reboils the same water (not tested - just my observations from continuous soft water use)


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