# Beginner with a budget of £1300



## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

Hi all

First post here but I've been trying to educate myself a bit using the search function etc in advance of the purchase of my first espresso machine. I've been using a Baratza Encore grinder with a Chemex for the last couple of years and enjoying that a lot. But I feel it's time to delve in a bit deeper.

So....I have a budget of about £1300 for an espresso machine with another£4/500 for a grinder. I wonder what might be good machines in that bracket. Looking at the Solo grinder and for the espresso machine the Lelit Elizabeth or the ACS Minima. Really happy to be pointed in other directions if anyone can do so. Mostly to be used for one or two espressos a day for me and for Americanos and milk drinks by the family - probably a max of 3 or 4 drinks to be made in succession.

Thanks in advance of any adice anyone can offer.

Gerry


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@gerryt Welcome to the form, nice healthy budget.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi.

Good budget and a good idea with the solo as you can fit ssp burrs later down the rd.

At that budget id be going for the minima, as you have scope later down the rd to add flow control. Down side is pumps a tad noisy.

If it were me id be adding the extra £400 and buy the lelit bianca and you'll never have buyers remorse lol.

I speak from experience here 😂🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Minima pump is noisy&#8230;although in black it's very easy to keep clean and as it's not a lever E61 there is less maintenance.

Although the pump is noisy I'm not sure I would switch it out for a Bianca given the choice. I've only used the Minima though.


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## Eiffel (Apr 3, 2021)

Another consideration which could be a key decision factor is whether or not a quick warm-up time is required. E61 machines are quite capable and offer room to grow (flow control, etc.) but they have a fairly long warm up time (say 30-60 minutes depending on individual models). The Elisabeth is much better at 15-20 minutes (as are some other machines such as the more expensive Evo Leva or the -appliance grade- Sage/Breville double boiler, or some of the purely manual levers).


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## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

Thanks for the info guys. Not too fussed about the noise tbh. Unless we're talking waking the dead here! A reasonably short warm up time would be good - around the 20 minute mark? Don't especially want to plan the whole day round making the coffee.

Anything else out there to be looking at? ECM Classika?

Cheers, Gerry


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

Welcome to the forum!

Nice combos there ! Minima, Bianca, Vesuvius - all great machines The V was available as a forum deal directly by ACS for ~£1900, which is a no brainer choice, tbh. He may be reached here if you want to know more details and if it is still on offer.

You can't go wrong with any of the three. The B and the V are end-game machines.

IMO, rather than solo and ssp burs later, I would grab the Mazzer Major with SSP burs from classifieds.

Finally, what's your story with the water?

Sorry, I won't know about the warm up time of M and B. The Liz comes up under 10 mins I think - @MediumRoastSteam and the V takes about an hour (I could be wrong) - @DavecUK may confirm. @Cuprajake is your man for Bianca.

I won't worry too much about the warm up time, given the smart plug.


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

bianca is warm in around 20mins it over heats the group, then comes back down to temp, i also run a lower steam pressure and still use the 4 hole tip.

the minima iirc was around the 30 mins mark, but i have always used timer plugs so its ready for when im up or home

i dont think you'd go wrong with any of them, i fancied a liz but just didnt like the appliance look, theres also bezzera which have an electronic group too from @BlackCatCoffeeand izzo


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## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

Again thanks guys - much appreciated. This info is pure gold.

I've pm'd the guy selling the Mazzer so fingers crossed.

Water-wise I live in NE Scotland - whisky country - so the water we have is pretty good. In a previous life I was a bit of a home (beer) brewer and got in touch with a guy who's a bit of a home brew guru called Graham Wheeler. He described my tap water as good enough to bottle haha! Well they use it for single malt so....

Anyway Scottish Water describe it as moderately soft with a hardness of 83 mg of calcium carbonate per litre, 30mg of Calcium per litre and 2.3mg of Magnesium per litre. It is chlorinated but we can leave the water standing for that to evaporate off


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## 8144 (Oct 9, 2014)

gerryt said:


> Thanks for the info guys. Not too fussed about the noise tbh. Unless we're talking waking the dead here! A reasonably short warm up time would be good - around the 20 minute mark? Don't especially want to plan the whole day round making the coffee.
> 
> Anything else out there to be looking at? ECM Classika?
> 
> Cheers, Gerry


 "Don't especially want to plan the whole day round making the coffee." good luck with that now you're about to enter the rabbit hole of making espresso based drinks at home! hahaha


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@gerryt The hardness looks ok to the borderline (for my comfort), although @Rob1 will provide more clarify on this subject. Where is the alkalinity ? You're going to require about 3 German clark to avoid any long-term risks of corrosion. Please grab Rob's the water calculator from the coffee lounge.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53491-non-scaling-water-calculator/?do=embed

Good luck!


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Take a look at the classifieds here- frequent bargains!


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## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

I don't understand what this means but the water data gives these figures as well - Clark degrees 5.84 and German degrees 4.67. Nothing in the data that specifically says alkalinity.


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

gerryt said:


> I don't understand what this means but the water data gives these figures as well - Clark degrees 5.84 and German degrees 4.67. Nothing in the data that specifically says alkalinity.


 Please get a drop kit, measure the hardness and alkalinity each on 20ml water, convert the number of drops x 17.9 mg/l and divide the result by 4.


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## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

Like Medium Strong Coffee said:


> Please get a drop kit, measure the hardness and alkalinity each on 20ml water, convert the number of drops x 17.9 mg/l and divide the result by 4.


 That sounds like good advice thanks. I'll get on to it


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## KnockBox (Sep 7, 2021)

I had just about the same budget and bought a Rancilio Silvia Pro and a Niche Zero grinder, both of which I am happy with, but I am just a beginner (except for a Gaggia Classic many years ago).


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## Like Medium Strong Coffee (Feb 18, 2021)

@gerryt Liz has come up for sale for £850. You may PM @Geoff Hearn if you are interested.

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/item/574-lelit-elizabeth-pl92t-dual-boiler-v3-for-sale/?do=embed


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## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

Thanks for that. Possibly leaning towards the Minima just now but that may change. Not sure...


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## gerryt (Sep 22, 2021)

First part of the equation sorted hopefully. Just pulled the trigger on a black Niche Zero! Says it ships this month so fingers crossed it'll be here soon.

Cheers, Gerry


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