# Guidance on starting out (gaggia classic+specialita)



## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

So I am a total novice when it comes to home coffee. I got a setup for Espresso going as that's what I want to make. My equipment is:

Gaggia Classic 2008 model with PID 
eureka specialita (new)
black cat coffee signature blend

As I am totally new to all this I'm a little lost and suspect multiple variables are wrong here. I am experimenting with 18g of coffee (which I'm weighting on a scale).

1) Set to mark 5 which I believe is coarse was extremely bitter. I didn't time the start of extraction.
2) at this point I switched out to naked handle to get a better view of extraction. Ground at mark 1. The extraction began at 3-4 seconds ergo was too quick and the water from the filter was spraying. Tasted sour.
3) ground at mark 2. Extraction began at 2-3 seconds so not right either and water was flowing too fast and spraying. Also sour. 
4) ground at mark 3. Extraction began at 2-3 seconds still and lots of spraying. For this shot I made sure my puck was even, and it looked as even as possible. Still sour but also felt bitter.

So it's hard for me to narrow one variable at a time since I suspect there is multiple things I'm doing wrong. The spraying makes me think I'm not preparing the puck right, or is this a sign the basket itself is faulty and I should use the non-naked handle? Also the basket looks like it leaves a lot of room, could this also be part of the problem?

any advice is welcome. I would have taken pictures but can try tomorrow. At this rate I'll probably run out of my beans before I figure this batch out :laughcry:


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## siliconslave (Feb 18, 2020)

Hi VHD - sounds like your going courser when you should be going finer. Personally i don't find the 'start of pour' thing overly useful, time the whole shot from start to end and weigh the output.



Stick with the normal PF for now & concentrate on getting the grind right.


Set it to mark 1 (and dial down it while its running or it can clog) tap the basket to level a bit then tamp.


Pour for 25 seconds and weight the output - your aiming for about 1:2 so 18grams should give you 36 grams of espresso.


Adjust the grind from there, if its say 50 grams out take it down 1/2 a mark and try again.


Dialling in a new grinder is always like this - i just got a new specialita as well and used up about 1/2 a bag getting it right, on the upside your helping to season the burs while your doing it so not a total waste, if frustrating  . Worth noting that the numbers on the specialita are just for reference, zero is not burrs touching...

Once you've got the 1:2 in 25seconds (ignoring pre-infusion if you have that) then give the bottomless a try


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## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

siliconslave said:


> Hi VHD - sounds like your going courser when you should be going finer. Personally i don't find the 'start of pour' thing overly useful, time the whole shot from start to end and weigh the output.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I do wonder about the dial since it's circular how does it work? Like if I go from 1 down to 6 what does that mean?


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## siliconslave (Feb 18, 2020)

VHD said:


> I do wonder about the dial since it's circular how does it work? Like if I go from 1 down to 6 what does that mean?


 The dial is just moving the burs closer together / further apart, ignore the scale as an abosulte, its a relative reference - ie 4 may be perfect for a double but you might want to go to 2 for a single say.

You just need to make sure they burs aren't touching, you'd get a chirping noise if they do. When i dialled in i had to go from about 3, one full turn, down to about 1.5 but your milage may vary


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## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

So something that's bothering me, the specialita is spraying the ground coffee even though I'm holding the portafilter right below it.

it gets quite messy. At first I thought it's me, but I've made a few shots now and I can't see what I'm doing wrong. It's a new grinder bought from @Black Cat Coffee what am I doing wrong?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Coffee flying about is usually due to static electricity, some beans particularly Monsooned Malabar are prone to this. Static is a P I A.

What size basket are you using ? are you weighing your coffee in and liquid out ? Baskets are designed for a set amount of coffee.

Use the naked P/F as this will show any preparation faults or problems, you cannot diagnose prep problems unless you can see the flow from the basket

( the flow from the basket will be the same wether it is in the standard P/F or the naked)


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## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> Coffee flying about is usually due to static electricity, some beans particularly Monsooned Malabar are prone to this. Static is a P I A.
> 
> What size basket are you using ? are you weighing your coffee in and liquid out ? Baskets are designed for a set amount of coffee.
> 
> ...


 I actually dont know the size of my basket (s) as they dont state on them anything. I am using the biggest one I have (its flat) and it leaves a lot of room as im targeting 18g.

I am weighing my beans pre-grinding. I was also weighing the post-ground but it didnt make sense as im doing single dosing at a time (and I could see the specialita was not far off from my initial weighing). I do not weight the liquid out, but I think I might need to do this as the speeds I am seeing just do not match up to what I am reading. e.g. The first extraction is too quick and then I can see the liquid become watery very quick too.

Using the naked P/F is incredibly messy, as I can see liquid shooting in various directions. I assume this is due to poor puck, but I was advised earlier to not use a naked one.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

If they are the standard Gaggia baskets they normally hold 7 -8 gm single and 16 gm double ( depending on grind and bean you may be able to squeeze a little more in)

Try placing a coin on top of a freshly ground puck / lock in / remove/ check to see if coin has left an indent. If it has the basket is too full without room for expansion.

Providing the grinder is delivering your weighed dose there is no need to re-weigh.

From your explanation of the pour it sounds like too coarse and poor preparation ( which you cannot see with spouted P /F ).

Settle the grounds in the basket THEN agitate / wind with a cocktail stick OR stick 2 / 3 needles in a cork and use this to agitate/ even the grounds then tamp.

WEIGH the output. Initially aim for 2 times the weight of the ground coffee. Aim for a time 25 - 30 sec's irrespective of basket size. You will probably need to tweak the grind if you change between single and double ALSO when you change beans It may / will need adjusting with air temperature and humidity changes also bean age .


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## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

As an update, I have been able to make drinkable lattes for the past couple of days although still far from anything I would call good.

Changing the basket to a smaller one and the reducing to 17g a shot seemed to have a positive impact (in both time to first extraction + taste). Although the shots were still too fast/watery compared to shots I see in youtube videos.

Anyway I have run out of beans now so need to get some more to continue the journey.


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## siliconslave (Feb 18, 2020)

my 'don't use a naked PF' suggestion was simply to remove the puck prep from the initial adjustments - you need to get to roughly the right ratios before you worry about 'clean' the pour is.

Once you've got 1:2 (beans:espresso) through in around 25seconds faffing around with the grinds won't make any real difference.


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## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

siliconslave said:


> my 'don't use a naked PF' suggestion was simply to remove the puck prep from the initial adjustments - you need to get to roughly the right ratios before you worry about 'clean' the pour is.
> 
> Once you've got 1:2 (beans:espresso) through in around 25seconds faffing around with the grinds won't make any real difference.


 The removal of the naked P/F actually helped btw, I havent been using it.

I think the timing/ratio is 100% off (I am just using visual judgement call to stop extraction) but until I purchase some espresso shot glasses its hard for me to measure since my scale + tea cup is too big to fit below the P/F.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Don't bother with shot glasses for measuring, they are not that accurate with the crema and the meniscus . You would be better buying a thin/ cheap jewellery scale to fit under the brew head.

Another advantage to using a naked / bot/ less P /F is the extra clearance it gives for cups :good:  .

Use watch or phone for timing, time from flicking switch on to off.


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## siliconslave (Feb 18, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> Another advantage to using a naked / bot/ less P /F is the extra clearance it gives for cups :good:  .


 Very true!

There are roughly three variable: time, grind and volume out. (There are loads more, but start with those three)

You need to be able to fix one variable, easiest one to do is time so use a stopwatch and start and stop the machine for 25 seconds.

Scales on the machine are great but they do lag so zero your cup on the scale, put it under the spout and pour.

If it's too heavy after 25seconds then grind finer, if it's too light, grind courser.


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## VHD (Jul 23, 2020)

Thanks guys, I think I am getting closer and closer to some decency.

I realised why things were so off, its because my grind settings were way off/out. I saw a vid that suggested to take specialita all the way fine to choke the machine and then step up. Once I tried this I realized my grind control had been fully turned towards coarse (so I was essentially just tuning between really coarse and coarse).

Now not only did extraction begin at 5 second mark, but also the shot seemed to be thicker (and although I didnt reach 25 seconds, I got about 20 seconds of solid extraction before I saw watery). It actually tastes better too, so it was the grind settings after all. Still room for improvement though, but I feel great that it is improving.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

VHD said:


> Thanks guys, I think I am getting closer and closer to some decency.
> 
> I realised why things were so off, its because my grind settings were way off/out. I saw a vid that suggested to take specialita all the way fine to choke the machine and then step up. Once I tried this I realized my grind control had been fully turned towards coarse (so I was essentially just tuning between really coarse and coarse).
> 
> Now not only did extraction begin at 5 second mark, but also the shot seemed to be thicker (and although I didnt reach 25 seconds, I got about 20 seconds of solid extraction before I saw watery). It actually tastes better too, so it was the grind settings after all. Still room for improvement though, but I feel great that it is improving.


 Keep persevering , everyone finds it a steep uphill climb initially. :good: '

Try pinching the grind fractionally tighter or / tamp a little firmer.


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