# Sage Oracle Bitter Coffee



## Bittercoffee (Mar 19, 2021)

Hi all,

I'm aware this has been covered but none of the previous answers seem to have helped so here we go again.

I've had a sage oracle a while, and have never really been totally happy with the coffee it kicks out. It's passable as latte/Cappuccino but as an espresso it's always bitter.

I've always tried to dial in to about 1:1.2-1.5 over 30-35 seconds. It's never really constant but I gather that's from dual boiler heated the whole machine up etc. I don't mess with tamp or pre infuse timings. Just start with a coarse grind and work down over a few days of new beans (uses too much coffee to waste 100g of beans failing to dial it in) until I hit somewhere in the round about area for ratios. However, no matter what it's always bitter. I'm using freshly roasted beans from a local place that does nice coffee so I don't think it's a bean issue, definitely machine/user error.

I've tried going from ridiculously coarse 1:3 down to 1:1 ratios and still get nowhere. Maybe I just need to accept it's not a great espresso machine and stick with lattes 🤷‍♂️

Anybody point me in the right direction to pull a half decent espresso in the mornings?

Thanks all


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

What beans are you using ? A link to them might be useful.


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## Bittercoffee (Mar 19, 2021)

https://www.forthcoffee.com/collections/frontpage/products/railbridge-espresso-blend


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Sweet on a bean with that sort of taste description is likely to be some what bitter. Lemon is lemon.

Some would say you need a better grinder and also suggest adding 2 to 4 hundred quid for a special set of burrs for it for some types of bean. I found something can usually be done with all Sage grinders. Trouble is the range of variables that are available and over and under extraction chatter on the web mentioning specific numbers. The machine itself - no problems with that technically. I often feel the grinders get more stick than they deserve and assume that yours has had kg or so of beans put through it as like most they do run in to some extent.  I wasted more than that learning on a BE.

I drink americano. I find espresso too strong but understand people sometimes water them down to open up the flavours.

This thread may give you some ideas

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/58646-grinding-for-a-ristretto/?do=embed

@MWJB 's posts often delve into this area as well.

A post in the barista skills area specifically mentioning espresso on an Oracle might also provide some help. I do know from comments in the past that it has been done.

The biggest problem really with home espresso machines is the need to try a wide range of variables until some one finds a drink that they like. A bean that is nice in milk may not really be usable drunk in other forms but all depends on a particular persons taste preferences.


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

I was not too impressed with my Oracle at first but now I am used to what it can and can't do I find it very acceptable.

May I suggest that you find a suitable grind setting to give you a 1:2 ratio over 27-30 seconds max including a 6-7 second pre-infuse. I don't bother with the automatic settings and just hold the one-cup button for the 6-7 seconds, shown on the display, then release for the remaining time with a further press to stop.

I have found that much more reliable than trying to rely on the automated volume/time modes available on the machine which are very variable, to say the least! Also it gives you the opportunity to watch the flow and colour of the brew so you get to know after a while whether your getting a good brew or not - rather than just jabbing a button and letting the machine get on with it!

I actually obtained a 15gm VST basket for mine and adjusted the tamping blade to its lowest setting along with a tamp value of 4 in the menu solely to lower the dose from the ridiculous 22-24 gm the machine was dosing with the standard basket. This has resulted in a more reasonable 18-19.5 gm dose, depending on the bean and grind size, which is a little more reasonable.

Not sure how dark roasted your beans are but I know if I used a darker roast and obtained a 1:1.5 at up to 35 seconds then I would EXPECT a bitter brew - might not even taste it before tipping it in the sink! You could also try lowering the temperature by a degree or two which might improve the flavour of your bean if it is dark.

Just my experience, hope it might help.


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

@Bittercoffee Did you get any further forward with any of the suggestions?


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

It's always nice to have feedback from the people that we are all trying to help - most gratifying (not)


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## Bittercoffee (Mar 19, 2021)

Not had the chance to play with it, I did get a slightly better coffee out from some more playing about. The local roaster has offered to help, but I'm offshore so going to pay them a visit when I'm back and I'll report back how it's gone with settings etc


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Bittercoffee said:


> Not had the chance to play with it, I did get a slightly better coffee out from some more playing about. The local roaster has offered to help, but I'm offshore so going to pay them a visit when I'm back and I'll report back how it's gone with settings etc


 OK, understood. When you do get the chance try some of the suggestions above - just re-read your comments and IF you are getting a 1:1.5 in 35 seconds then that would suggest to me that the grind is too fine so you are over extracting a bit to get the volume + a bitter taste?

From my Oracle experience I would suggest you need to be looking for a 1:2 ratio produced in roughly 30 seconds (including the pre-infuse, maybe 7 - 8 seconds) as a STARTING point then maybe a little tweaking to adjust the taste from there.

Although I think the Oracle is an acceptable machine and can produce good results it is a little more difficult to get repeatable decent results sometimes, especially when changing to a different bean, as you can only adjust the grind size, volume and temperature BUT CANNOT reliably adjust the dose.

Do let us know when you are back and had a chance to try.


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