# Grinder Upgrade - Mahlkonig Vario?



## aaronb

Hi all,

My Ascaso iMini is on it's last legs, the adjustment knob spins by itself unless I hold it whilst grinding! It looks like the plastic around one of the 4 screws holding the mechanism to the chassis has cracked, it's served me well for about 4 years now so I'm happy but its time for an upgrade.

I'm seriously thinking about buying a Londinium I so want to pair a grinder to that primarily, but if it can also be easily adjusted for chemex that would be great.

I noticed Glenn was using the Mahlkonig Vario with the Londinium and liked it, but didn't want to derail that thread.

Would this be a substantial increase in quality from the Ascaso iMini?

Are there any other grinders in the same price range I should also consider?

Is there a massive difference between the Mahlkonig Vario and the Mazzer Mini? The Mazzer would be slightly overkill for me and a bit too big for the kitchen I think.

What is grind retention like?

Thanks.


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## origmarm

Hi there Aaronb,

I had a Vario for a while. Very nice grinder. For me it breaks down as follows:

Good: Easy adjustment to the grind, very quiet for a grinder in this price range, very little grounds retention, precise timer (0.1 of a second), good grind quality. Small and elegant, good hopper. La Spaziale (who service Mahlkonig in the UK) were good if a little expensive.

Bad: Needs re-calibrating every time you remove the burrs for cleaning (say every few weeks), not the best coarser grind. Sometimes the grind can 'slip' but it's rare. The hopper cracks easily if dropped (I had two and the bloke I sold mine to has had to replace it also).

Overall a 9/10.

I currently have a Eureka Mignon which I really like also. Similar 9/10. I like the grind better than the Vario (fluffier, though I can't put my finger on it), it however clumps a lot which I don't mind but it definitely not the case with the Vario. Very similar otherwise. Lots of people use both on these forums so a search should yield a lot of responses.


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## Earlepap

Hey. The Vario's grind retention is fantastic and it grinds really well for espresso. It's not so hot at the coarser side of things but does the job. While being easily adjusted, it's selling point of being able to go from press back to whatever setting you had for espresso is a bit of a fallacy. That said I'm not sure there's a grinder out there that can make such huge changes to grind size without the need for some beans ground through and a purge in between.

Can't tell you anything about the Mazzer Mini I'm afraid.


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## RisingPower

The mazzer mini isn't exactly large is it? I certainly didn't think it was mich larger than the vario.

Taking the hopper out of the equation that is (you won't be needing it)

I've seen some reviews quoting the vario as nearly as good as a super jolly, but from having owned a mazzer mini ages back, i'd go for the vario if the choice was between them, especially if they've got around to sorting those static issues out.

That or a used super jolly.


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## garydyke1

Dont know a great deal about the Vario for espresso (other than the brewed coffee is awesome at 6/8Kafe and they use it for that) but Id go for an SJ over a mini any day of the week, but youre into 2nd-hand Royal territory at those prices. Royal>SJ>Mini


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## fatboyslim

But they'll have the stainless steel burrs for brewed coffee. These don't work for espresso.

I've tasted coffee made from a Vario with ss burrs and it was pretty tasty but that loss of espresso grinding is kind of dumb for home use.


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## chimpsinties

You'll get a big thumbs up for the Vario from me.

It oozes quality as soon as you fire it up you can just hear it (must be the belt drive I guess). I flick between espresso and AeroPress almost every day with little problem (I tend to throw 4-5 beans in during adjustment). There's basically no clumping and hardly any grinds retention. I just use the timer as a rough guide. I know if I throw 19g of beans in the top and hit my No2 button (which is set for 19s) I get pretty much 100% of my coffee out in my PF.

I use the top half of a syrofoam cup stuffed into my basket to catch all the grinds but it's by no means a messy grinder. I just don't want to have to wipe ANY up afterwards as I'm usually in a rush


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## RisingPower

fatboyslim said:


> But they'll have the stainless steel burrs for brewed coffee. These don't work for espresso.
> 
> I've tasted coffee made from a Vario with ss burrs and it was pretty tasty but that loss of espresso grinding is kind of dumb for home use.


Ahhh.. Interesting about the vario burrs, only remember the ceramic ones when it was introduced.


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## fatboyslim

This is taken from the coffee hit website



> These steel burrs for the home Mahlkonig Vario can replace the ceramic burrs. These burrs are much better for brewed coffee grinding.
> 
> The steel burrs seem to produce a more uniform grind size at courser grind setting.


It would seem the ceramic burrs are just better at espresso grinding and the stainless steel burrs are better at coarse grinding (for brewed) but I think the stainless ones actually can do espresso just not as well as the stock ceramic.

Sorry for confusion.


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## aaronb

Thanks for the advice guys!

So the stock burr's are good enough for espresso?

Is the grind quality going to be noticeably better than the Ascaso iMini?


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## RisingPower

aaronb said:


> Thanks for the advice guys!
> 
> So the stock burr's are good enough for espresso?
> 
> Is the grind quality going to be noticeably better than the Ascaso iMini?


Yes.

Surprising that they did different burrs for the vario, but maybe when the original test was on home barista it was only for espresso.


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## garydyke1

aaronb said:


> Tha
> 
> 1. So the stock burr's are good enough for espresso?
> 
> 2. Is the grind quality going to be noticeably better than the Ascaso iMini?


1. Yes.

2. Probably


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## chimpsinties

The grind quality for espresso is excellent with the ceramic burrs.


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## twistywizard

I had one all be it very briefly. The only reason I sold was because I found a SJ for a silly low price.

Excellent Grinder!! So quiet, very solid and tiny in dimensions. Virtually no clumping when doing Espresso. Going from Espresso to French Press and then back again though was not easy.. I grew tired of it so bought a hand grinder for French Press. The timer functions are nice and it was a nice step up from the Rocky I had before.

However I would go for a SJ without the Hopper on. It isnt needed and reduces the height to only slightly taller than a Silvia. Will post a picture later. Grind Quality of the SJ is fantastic as well.

However I dont think you could go wrong with either...


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## Glenn

aaronb said:


> Thanks for the advice guys!
> 
> So the stock burr's are good enough for espresso?
> 
> Is the grind quality going to be noticeably better than the Ascaso iMini?


Yes on both counts.

i preferred my Vario to that of a Mazzer I used ths week - both used to grind for the LONDINIUM I


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## aaronb

Thanks everyone for the excellent advice


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## Nimble Motionists

Glenn said:


> Yes on both counts.
> 
> i preferred my Vario to that of a Mazzer I used ths week - both used to grind for the LONDINIUM I


Interested to know which Mazzer and why you preferred it? I'm trying to decide at the moment whether to pick up a used SJ or save for a new Vario (as used Varios don't seem to exist). I like the fact the Vario is doserless.


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## fatboyslim

Just to warn you that I find the doser on my SJ an absolute pain in the bottom.

Doserless is good 

SJ grind is pretty good though, especially with new burrs.


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## aaronb

Yeah I like the Vario because its doserless!


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## Glenn

There's a reason secondhand Varios don't exist - it's because they are generally held onto.

It was a Mazzer Mini Type A


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## RisingPower

Glenn said:


> There's a reason secondhand Varios don't exist - it's because they are generally held onto.
> 
> It was a Mazzer Mini Type A


It's also not exactly a grinder a coffee shop would be buying would it? Unlike a super jolly.

Think the home barista test stated the grind quality was comparable to a SJ mainly.


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## RisingPower

fatboyslim said:


> Just to warn you that I find the doser on my SJ an absolute pain in the bottom.
> 
> Doserless is good
> 
> SJ grind is pretty good though, especially with new burrs.


I find the doser great at breaking up clumps on the k10. Does the sj not clump on finer grinds?

If not, I thought the SJ was pretty easy to convert to doserless?


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## Earlepap

fatboyslim said:


> I think the stainless ones actually can do espresso just not as well as the stock ceramic.


Sadly they can't. I've not actually tried, but they only just go fine enough for a V60-01 so I'm pretty sure espresso would be a gushy.


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## fatboyslim

RisingPower said:


> I find the doser great at breaking up clumps on the k10. Does the sj not clump on finer grinds?
> 
> If not, I thought the SJ was pretty easy to convert to doserless?


It does clump a bit but I actually find most of these clumps are still there in the basket even after my ninja 'thwacking'.

Potentially could be easy to convert but you'd need a conveniently shaped funnel or pay the ridiculous price for the genuine funnel.

If you know a good way to make it doserless please please tell me!


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## Glenn

RisingPower said:


> It's also not exactly a grinder a coffee shop would be buying would it?


A number of coffee shops in London have these for guest espresso, decaf or pour over.


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## Nimble Motionists

Glenn said:


> A number of coffee shops in London have these for guest espresso, decaf or pour over.


I've seen one in an Oxford coffee shop too. Used for guest coffee.


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## aaronb

Thanks again everyone for the feedback.

Vario is ordered


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## RisingPower

fatboyslim said:


> It does clump a bit but I actually find most of these clumps are still there in the basket even after my ninja 'thwacking'.
> 
> Potentially could be easy to convert but you'd need a conveniently shaped funnel or pay the ridiculous price for the genuine funnel.
> 
> If you know a good way to make it doserless please please tell me!


I saw ages ago an sj with just a metal pipe for the chute and wire mesh for static/clumps on home barista.

Lots of others though

http://www.kwilson.fsnet.co.uk/SuperJollyMod.htm

http://www.home-barista.com/grinders/aluminum-doserless-mod-for-mazzer-super-jolly-t13296.html


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## crankhouse

Just my 2penneth but my limited experience with the Vario is not all good. The rubber adjustment knobs are not very secure and there's definitely a trick to adjusting the grinder up to FINE (on the macro slider on the right) which is that the grinder has to be running. I tried to do it between a filter grind, then stopping the grinder and trying to adjust it up to an espresso grind and the slider just wouldn't do it..obvious once I'd spoken to the supplier.. I was trying to force the burrs together with partially ground large bean particles already between them. Of course with a very small (and flimsy IMO) rubber knob I didn't have a great deal of success and the knob just came off.

Changing the other way to a course setting isn't an issue since the burrs are being separated rather than closed together. No problems here. What this does mean of course is that if you have to have the grinder running whilst reducing the grind size you're going to be wasting some coffee. It'll be neither the course grind you started with, nor the fine grind you want to end with and it'll be wasted.


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## chimpsinties

That's bad luck but I think it's pretty obvious that you have to run the grinder while adjusting. OP don't worry about this. I have no problem with the sliders. Also, any "inbetween" grinds (maybe a few beans at most) just get chucked in a pot ready for the conditioning shot after backflushing day







Waste not want not and all that


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## RisingPower

crankhouse said:


> Just my 2penneth but my limited experience with the Vario is not all good. The rubber adjustment knobs are not very secure and there's definitely a trick to adjusting the grinder up to FINE (on the macro slider on the right) which is that the grinder has to be running. I tried to do it between a filter grind, then stopping the grinder and trying to adjust it up to an espresso grind and the slider just wouldn't do it..obvious once I'd spoken to the supplier.. I was trying to force the burrs together with partially ground large bean particles already between them. Of course with a very small (and flimsy IMO) rubber knob I didn't have a great deal of success and the knob just came off.
> 
> Changing the other way to a course setting isn't an issue since the burrs are being separated rather than closed together. No problems here. What this does mean of course is that if you have to have the grinder running whilst reducing the grind size you're going to be wasting some coffee. It'll be neither the course grind you started with, nor the fine grind you want to end with and it'll be wasted.


Are you really going to be wasting that much coffee if you're just adjusting the grind? Surely you'll have used any beans in the previous shot?


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## chimpsinties

I guess crankhouse is also grinding with a full hopper? If you're throwing in a dose at a time (19g in my case) all of it is coming out into your basket so there's actually no coffee left between the burrs. The main reason I throw a few beans in during grind adjustment is to hopefully dislodge any of the previous size that are left hanging around. Not that retention in the Vario is a problem really.


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## RisingPower

chimpsinties said:


> I guess crankhouse is also grinding with a full hopper? If you're throwing in a dose at a time (19g in my case) all of it is coming out into your basket so there's actually no coffee left between the burrs. The main reason I throw a few beans in during grind adjustment is to hopefully dislodge any of the previous size that are left hanging around. Not that retention in the Vario is a problem really.


If you grind with a full hopper you're going to have ridiculously stale beans, may as well leave them out in the open air.

With dosing it is a total non issue.

I lose a good few g of beans though in the k10 if I don't empty the chute, think there's a good few g in the burr chamber too.


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## chimpsinties

RisingPower said:


> If you grind with a full hopper you're going to have ridiculously stale beans, may as well leave them out in the open air.
> 
> With dosing it sounds a total non issue.
> 
> I lose a good few g of beans though in the k10 if I don't empty the chute, think there's a good few g in the burr chamber too.


Yes I know, that's why I was suggesting to do what I do which is grind per dose. i.e. chuck in the 19g you want to grind into the hopper and run the grinder until they've all come through. In my case, I have it set to 19s and it's just about perfect.


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## aaronb

I've found that pretty much all grinders are meant to be running when you make the grind adjustment?

Don't worry I only add what I need into the hopper before I make each coffee, no stale beans here.

Vario should come tomorrow, FedEx have it for the weekend


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## 4085

I had on of the first Varios that were sold in the UK. I was caught up with all the hype that surrounded the release. The first one was not very good. Lots of plastic in the construction and I could not see it lasting a decent length of time. The taste in the cup was nice though. Then, after a couple of months when grinding, both of the adjustment levers started to move up and down independently. It was sent back but by then, I had read an in depth review by someone I respected who really put it through its paces.

The result was I sold it to a friend, and bought a Eureka Mignon. I had sold a Malkonig K30 to buy the Vario which I liked, but was really overkill for a non commercial coffee lover!

The VArio I would not buy again. Yes, it is bound to be a step up from what you are upgrading from, but for me, the construction was basically naff, unless you like lots of plastic!


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## RisingPower

aaronb said:


> I've found that pretty much all grinders are meant to be running when you make the grind adjustment?
> 
> Don't worry I only add what I need into the hopper before I make each coffee, no stale beans here.
> 
> Vario should come tomorrow, FedEx have it for the weekend


Mm pretty bad idea to go to zero position and start the grinder.


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## aaronb

Well the Vario arrived yesterday, it was very well packaged and had been factory tested which is always nice, nothing worse than getting a dud. I was surprised / pleased at the low footprint, its comparable to the Ascaso iMini it is replacing. It's quieter than the Ascaso, and retains less grinds.

I put the included pack of grindz through on coarsest, then ran the grinder and notched the right hand lever to one down from the top (for espresso) and ran through some stale beans.

First 2 shots this morning were sink shots, nowhere near 9 bars pressure. I had to set the right hand lever all the way to the top and the left hand lever to the middle to get a decent extraction. Is this normal?

In terms of taste its a bit bolder, a bit smoother. I'm sure when the Londinium I comes though it will come into its own.

Update: contemplation of the coffee I just had seems to reveal a more interesting flavour profile.


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## 4085

I found the taste the Vario produced to be excellent. Very clean and sharp compared to others I have tried. You will soon learn whats what with it when you have played around a bit. Hope both your levers do not start to dance up and down like mine did though!


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## chimpsinties

When I first got mine I was grinding around 2E then once it had worn in a bit I'm now at around 1H which sounds about where you are. It's totally normal. You wouldn't want it much finer than that. I find it needs a couple clicks change sometimes depending on the coffee but usually its fine.

Sent from my JellyBean HTC HD2 using Tapatalk


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## aaronb

Thanks chimpsinties,

its amazing what a difference there is - same machine, same beans, same tamp and im tasting flavours I haven't before.


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