# Brewtus or Not Brewtus, That is the Question...........



## Andy Blyth (Jan 1, 2011)

Ok Guys,

Until recently, I was running a Gaggia Baby and Iberital MC2. I caught upgradeitis and turned in the MC2 for a Eureka Zenith 65e, which I am still getting to grips with, but its very nice indeed.

My plan is to upgrade the Gaggia to an Expobar Brewtus IV (reservoir and plumbable) in the future to compliment my new 65e.

My question is, if I am going to spend £1,200 on a machine , are there better options, or is the Brewtus IV the daddy at that price?

Cheers All

Andy


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'm sure that the sage Dbowners will put there machine forward .

Rather than re hash old ground I would suggest reading this comprehensive review by Gary .

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?13429-Sage-DB-versus-Expo-Brewtus-Shootout-Results&highlight=Brewtus+sage

It's the same price point but not like for like in function or group head Etc.


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## Andy Blyth (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks Boots.

I looked at the Sage already, and although in the same price bracket, it doesn't seem to be in the same class. Very plastic, small drip tray, not plumbable (I think), no E61, tamper built in (what?). If I wanted a machine like that, I'd buy a Gaggia Baby for a sixth of the price (oh wait........)...........


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Andy Blyth said:


> Thanks Boots.
> 
> I looked at the Sage already, and although in the same price bracket, it doesn't seem to be in the same class. Very plastic, small drip tray, not plumbable (I think), no E61, tamper built in (what?). If I wanted a machine like that, I'd buy a Gaggia Baby for a sixth of the price (oh wait........)...........


Different machines

do different things with programmable pre infusion on the sage, e61 on the brewtus.

Gary swapped his Brewtus for the sage and is happy with the coffee it makes

i have used neither so have no opinion ( Gary is the only one who has had both on this bench )

eveyone else can we not turn this into a sage v brewtus match again and respect the op opinions and thy and keep it constructive where possible









is £1200 the absolute max btw ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Let's look at it another way

what kind of drinks do you predominately make or want to make ?

do you change coffees a lot between roast levels etc

would you consider second hand ?


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## Andy Blyth (Jan 1, 2011)

I've just read Gary's thread and its very interesting. I haven't used the Sage so can't comment on how good or bad it is, but I don't think its for me. I'd be wishing I bought a Brewtus.

£1,200 may not be maximum, that just happens to be how much the Brewtus costs. I probably don't want to spend much more though.

I only drink espresso, so this is my main concern, however I do fairly regularly make lattes and cappuccinos for visitors etc. I usually buy maybe 500g - 1kg of beans at a time and the next time try a different variety, so changing coffees fairly often.

Second hand, probably not. I'd want a guarantee if I'm spending that much money.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Andy Blyth said:


> I've just read Gary's thread and its very interesting. I haven't used the Sage so can't comment on how good or bad it is, but I don't think its for me. I'd be wishing I bought a Brewtus.
> 
> £1,200 may not be maximum, that just happens to be how much the Brewtus costs. I probably don't want to spend much more though.
> 
> ...


ok cool

Db would help then if you need to change extraction temps and ought to steam enough for you milk drinks

can you turn of the steam boiler on the brewtus ? Brewtus owners ?

does the S1 ( la spaziale ) fall into this price range ? Anyone ?


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## Andy Blyth (Jan 1, 2011)

The brew boiler and steam boiler can be turned on and off independently of each other on the Brewtus IV.

Not sure about the S1. Don't think I've seen that one.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

http://www.gio-espresso.co.uk/la-spaziale-s1-ii-mini-vivaldi-red-coffee-machine.html

http://www.laspaziale.co.uk/coffee-machines-s1.php#minivivaldi

spazbarista has recently gone from a brewtus to an s1

would be a good person to get an opinion on them

plus he has a zenith

ronsil owned the aforementioned s1 for a few years will tell you about them too.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dont think that is the same model as ronsils and the brewtus can be bought for a lot less than £1200


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> dont think that is the same model as ronsils and the brewtus can be bought for a lot less than £1200


Ok ....

dont have a clue when it comes to s1 soz


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok ....
> 
> dont have a clue when it comes to s1 soz


There's two models:

S1 Vivaldi II - Plumbed in only, rotary pump, programmable pre-infusion

S1 Mini Vivaldi II - Reservoir only (front loading), vibration pump, optional mechanical pre-infusion chamber available.

The mini should be in the Brewtus price range.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> http://www.gio-espresso.co.uk/la-spaziale-s1-ii-mini-vivaldi-red-coffee-machine.html
> 
> http://www.laspaziale.co.uk/coffee-machines-s1.php#minivivaldi
> 
> ...


Beware GIO, they do not have a proper prescence in the UK. Their machines come directly ftom Italy, but not from Rocket. They claim to offer a 2 year warranty but not to sure if I would like to test it.

If warranty is important, then be aware that a lot of UK sellers supply the warranty through the manufacturer therefore for repair etc the machine needs to be sent abroad. Bellabarista and possibly others, give a 2 year warranty from themselves so you know who you are dealing with, but, of course this has to be built in to the retail price


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Correct cc - the link is to the Mini S1, mine, now Spazbarist's, S1 is the Vivaldi S1 full size at £1499 from Gio- Espresso. The best price around when I upgraded & although originally worried they proved to be no problem.

You have to pay more or decide to chance it.


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## Jon V (Feb 24, 2014)

I can recommend a really good supplier for la spaziale but not sure on the forum rules for it?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jon V said:


> I can recommend a really good supplier for la spaziale but not sure on the forum rules for it?


You can indicate where you bought something from , I'd don't see an issue with that at all.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

To answer some of the op's ideas about the Sage, very little of it is actually plastic as such, it's a hardwearing composite material, and composites are good enough for the aerospace industry, the rest of it is stainless steel and a diecast aluminium top which is the cupwarmer too. Does an E61 really matter that much?( La Marzocco and Slayer don't use E61 groups) the goal is to get temperature stability which the Sage does a very good job of as both the brew boiler and group temperatures are PID controlled, and also with it's power saving mode uses very little electricity. The tamper isn't built in, there is a hole with a magnet in it to hold the quite well made 58mm tamper. The programmable pre infusion is great, the warm up time , particularly if it is in the power saving state is very very fast, drip trays are what they are and I have found it to be plenty big enough to not need emptying everyday. Ok so it can't be plumbed in but being able to fill the water tank from the front without having to remove any cups and stuff is great feature, and oh yeah you get a 2 year warranty as well, which if you buy from John Lewis can be extended for £25 or so. It was conceived in Australia by Breville, who have a fairly long history of making espresso machines over there, with help from professional coffee people and people from forums. At the end of the day you pay your money and take your choice but I would suggest having a good look at one before you buy anything, it makes a damn good cup of coffee- the limits of which are you and your grinder and choice of beans.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> http://www.gio-espresso.co.uk/la-spaziale-s1-ii-mini-vivaldi-red-coffee-machine.html
> 
> http://www.laspaziale.co.uk/coffee-machines-s1.php#minivivaldi
> 
> ...


The Brewtus is excellent value for money. Very few bells and whistles beyond the PID and separate switching of boilers, but it has a decent pedigree.

The Spaz is more money, looks to have better quality parts and is semiautomated. Really haven't played around enough with it to compare shot quality but gut feeling is that it gives a more complex cup.

Can't comment on the Sage, but bear in mind that as a new product it hasn't yet established long term reliability. If it does then it would make a wise choice but if I were buying now I'd pick something else. £1200 is a lot of dosh for something that has yet to prove itself.

Plus its butt-ugly.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Plus the expo can be had for 150 quid less which you could put towards your grinder, naked portafilter for sage is extortionate too


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Quite alot for the OP to think over


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Plus the expo can be had for 150 quid less which you could put towards your grinder, naked portafilter for sage is extortionate too


He already has a Zenith 65E, I'm currently looking at getting some Sage/Breville Naked portafilters for less than Sage charge, as they are way cheaper i.e. £50 bought in Australia and my folks are coming over here in September, the Sage portafilters are also made of stainless steel not plated brass, so when you look at the cost of other stainless ones it's not that bad, an LM spouted one is £100+.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

i have a spare sage naked which i need to offload cheaper than rrp


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Charliej said:


> He already has a Zenith 65E, I'm currently looking at getting some Sage/Breville Naked portafilters for less than Sage charge, as they are way cheaper i.e. £50 bought in Australia and my folks are coming over here in September, the Sage portafilters are also made of stainless steel not plated brass, so when you look at the cost of other stainless ones it's not that bad, an LM spouted one is £100+.


£50 for a naked portafilter is ridiculous charlie


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> £50 for a naked portafilter is ridiculous charlie


Pretty good compared to RRP in the UK.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Pretty good compared to RRP in the UK.


come on gary, i appreciate hat you have one but "in general" £50 is a lot to spend on a naked portafilter with a stock handle


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> £50 for a naked portafilter is ridiculous charlie


Have you seen the price of other stainless steel ones Dave? It is a bugger that you can't get an alternative to fit the Sage, I tried my best to find one that would work, and even bought 3 just to see. You can actually use a Gaggia fitment naked pf with the Sage it just locks in at very odd angle but it works, I used mine a lot like that before I actually owned the Sage and sold the Classic on.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

.....................


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