# Calibrated Tamper - advice please!



## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Hello,

I'm looking at buying a calibrated tamper for consistency as I do not know how much force I need to use / would just feel happier knowing I was consistent.

I've seen bravo, the force, push, decent calibrated tampers mentioned.

Which is the best one? Ideally I do not want to spend a silly amount but I would rather have one that I wouldn't have to replace.

Would be used with VST 18g and 22g baskets.

Thanks


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

What's a silly amount of money? They all broadly do the same thing. Being able to tamp to an appropriate depth is important and it should be a snug fit with the basket (58.55mm). The push isn't calibrated and isn't really comparable to the others you mentioned.


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> What's a silly amount of money? They all broadly do the same thing. Being able to tamp to an appropriate depth is important and it should be a snug fit with the basket (58.55mm). The push isn't calibrated and isn't really comparable to the others you mentioned.


 Thanks for your reply. Silly amount is relative, some would value a fancy / luxurious one and I guess it'd be worth it to them.

Ideally I wouldn't want to spend more than £50.

The generic Chinese ones do not seem to be calibrated properly. I purchased a £20 one that required 25kg of force to hear the click.. I sent it back.

I've seen a few but can't see many 58.55mm ones, they're all 58mm other than this:

https://www.blackcatcoffee.co.uk/products/espro-58-35mm-vst-black-calibrated-click-tamper

Would this be a reasonable option, or do you recommend anything else instead? I wonder if there will be any black friday sales...


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

The espro is more than 50% above your ideal limit...

I wouldn't bother with a calibrated tamper, you will not gain much if anything from it. The ones you mentioned previously are all 'self levelling' which will be a nice thing to have for a beginner and even people experienced will like the idea of a completely effortless and fool proof level tamp. Unfortunately they're all more than £50. I think the Bravo is the cheapest option if you buy direct over Instagram. The decent is probably next but I don't know how much shipping and taxes will be and 'The Force' is about £170.

I wouldn't expect anything on Black Friday aside from maybe discounts on coffee and possibly scales if there are some old or obsolete ones retailers want to shift. Maybe tampers but probably not the premium ones.

If you're using it with a VST basket I wouldn't go with anything less than 58.5mm.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Just to add: I thought the force came with a 58.55 or 58.5mm base. And the Bravo will probably be available in custom sizes up to 58.5 if not 58.55

They're good to get a level tamp as mentioned but it's not that difficult to learn. After that so long as you tamp with vaguely the same pressure it'll be fine. I vary my tamp a lot and there's no difference to the shot, it's always above 5kg and less than 15kg. In other words I give it a firm tamp that is comfortable to perform. No hulking down, once the puck is compressed you're done.

Calibrated tampers in a way are a throw back to the days when people used to stop shots when they saw blonding and filled a basket with coffee, wiping off the excess to get a level bed. They also thought you needed to tamp with "30lbs of pressure" and recommended learning to tamp on scales to make sure you were applying the 'correct' force.

Using a 58.5-58.55 tamper with a VST basket will be better than a smaller calibrated tamper.


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

I bought one of these (click me) waaaaay back when i was gonna buy a Bianca....turns out i ended up with a Londinium and this is "overkill" as a Londinium only requires a light tamp....ah well.

It does work well though....an looks priddy.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Personally I use a 58.5mm Competition Coffee tamper. It is a plain non calibrated thing. Does the job fine but I have made one heck of a lot off coffee in my life and I have a muscle memory for tamping. Not sure if it is exactly 30lbs but I think it would be quite consistent which is the main thing.

I can see the appeal of calibrated tampers for the home user. It ensures that another variable is smoothed out.

I am finding a lot of people are starting to go for levellers over tampers now though. I guess it is what works for your routine, I am not convinced that one is better than the other as such.

David


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I used to have a calibrated tamper, 58.5mm. It was a JoeFrex that you can interchange the base. They was a while ago. I quite liked it... it allowed me to tamp and hear the click. It didn't made level tamping any easier though. 
Would I buy it again? Nah. I very much prefer a tamper that is comfortable and feels nice tether than a calibrated tamper. Muscle memory is pretty good and, as long as you are consistent, it doesn't really matter if you temp lightly or heavily, as long as it's consistent.

As for the size of the tamper: in my experience, I didn't like 58.5mm or 58.55mm. It's such a snug fit with the VST that you have to be very carefully when lifting the tamper otherwise it can form a vacum and the puck might lift out of the basket. So, if you do buy one like that, make sure it has tapered edges at least.

I quite like the 58.4mm tamper I have, nothing fancy. A good middle ground.


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Just to add: I thought the force came with a 58.55 or 58.5mm base. And the Bravo will probably be available in custom sizes up to 58.5 if not 58.55
> 
> They're good to get a level tamp as mentioned but it's not that difficult to learn. After that so long as you tamp with vaguely the same pressure it'll be fine. I vary my tamp a lot and there's no difference to the shot, it's always above 5kg and less than 15kg. In other words I give it a firm tamp that is comfortable to perform. No hulking down, once the puck is compressed you're done.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for the advice. I can up the budget to £100+ if the tamper justifies it but the scarlet 58.5mm one looks okay above. Mediumroaster suggests a 55.4mm.

My Lelit Mara X came with a 58.55mm tamper. I think I just need to sort of get the gist of using the muscle memory, so I may just go for the scarlet one above to use until I learn. Would this suffice?

How much is the Bravo Tamper + Leveller tool direct?

I've got a WDT tool, 58.55mm wedge leveller, 58.5mm funnel.



Rumpelstiltskin said:


> I bought one of these (click me) waaaaay back when i was gonna buy a Bianca....turns out i ended up with a Londinium and this is "overkill" as a Londinium only requires a light tamp....ah well.
> 
> It does work well though....an looks priddy.


 Thanks, I will try to find a black one. Seems like an okay price - enough so I can learn the feel / then move on to a more comfortable tamper.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

kico said:


> Thank you for the advice. I can up the budget to £100+ if the tamper justifies it but the scarlet 58.5mm one looks okay above. Mediumroaster suggests a 55.4mm.
> 
> My Lelit Mara X came with a 58.55mm tamper. I think I just need to sort of get the gist of using the muscle memory, so I may just go for the scarlet one above to use until I learn. Would this suffice?
> 
> ...


 If you want to tamp with 40lbs it'll be great. I have no idea how easy it'll be to use a calibrated tamper of that style and keep it level.

I'd prefer one of these myself: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000093704734.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.5c8e5c25e3AZOj&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=3bff7c0e-8fbd-450c-8574-88c996fd297d&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:3bff7c0e-8fbd-450c-8574-88c996fd297d,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2357_668%23808%234094%23271_668%23888%233325%2318_668%234328%2319922%2345_668%232846%238116%23932_668%232717%237562%23482_668%231000022185%231000066058%230_668%233468%2315613%23425

Contact Gilberto on Instagram and ask him for prices for the Bravo tampers. https://www.instagram.com/gilberto939/


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## Rincewind (Aug 25, 2020)

FWIW the scarlet one i use isn't angled/tapered/other....just a flat edge and it's never sucked any grinds up (vacuum style) nor do i get any gaps at the edge, even if i fully use it's required 40llbs....but i now seldom push down that hard as i've found that my machine doesn't need my puck to be a rock-solid-brick as Reiss would call it....YMMV.

It fits snuggly...but not vacuum snuggly if you get my gist and i've never had a puck get sucked out.....watch sod's law pop-up next time i use it 😉


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kico said:


> Mediumroaster suggests a 55.4mm.


 Who? 😂 - 58.4mm. I'm not suggesting anything. I quote myself for that effect below. I just said I didn't get on with the 58.5mm tamper I had using VST basket. It was a MBK one. Maybe it was poorly designed to the point that if I pulled too quick, the tamp would come back with with it.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> As for the size of the tamper: in my experience, I didn't like 58.5mm or 58.55mm. It's such a snug fit with the VST that you have to be very carefully when lifting the tamper otherwise it can form a vacum and the puck might lift out of the basket. So, if you do buy one like that, make sure it has tapered edges at least.
> 
> I quite like the 58.4mm tamper I have, nothing fancy. A good middle ground.





kico said:


> My Lelit Mara X came with a 58.55mm tamper.


 It seems that's a good tamper, and it has grooves too. Maybe that assists with the puck not being sucked back up!


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> It seems that's a good tamper, and it has grooves too. Maybe that assists with the puck not being sucked back up!


Forgive my sleepy eyes, it was late 

Thanks, that's what I meant. I've messaged bravo and might go down that route.

I don't know if my muscle memory would be as good as other peoples so it may be better to just get a good calibrated tamper (for me).

I like the lelit one, just don't trust my tamping consistency (yet)!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Contact Gilberto on Instagram and ask him for prices for the Bravo tampers. https://www.instagram.com/gilberto939/


 Thanks Rob, so I have pricing...

Including shipping, regardless of the colour choice...

£95 for the bravo tamper

£65 extra if I want the bravo distributor added to the order

Is the distributor worth it, or is a generic Chinese wedge 58.4mm one okay??

Both of these = basically the cost of a force tamper £160, which seems like a better option that I'd never have to change. Can continue to use my generic wedge leveler...

Thanks


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I don't know about the distributor. Some people say the bravo is the best of the bunch due to the way it works (a piston slowly lowering into the bed). I'd get one purely to test it. It's up to you. Some people think distributors don't do anything worthwhile, I'm still undecided personally but am leaning towards they don't do much.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> I'm still undecided personally but am leaning towards they don't do much.


 I don't think they do anything extraordinary - it's a question of workflow. IMO, all they do is to allow you to tamp on a flat, somewhat evenly distributed surface, and speed up your workflow a tiny bit, allows you to be more careless, to an extent.

Using a Niche Zero: I've tried with and without this week and the results are exactly the same, whether

1) I grind into the PF, stir the grinds with a funnel carelessly, use a distributor/leveller and tamp OR

2) grind into the PF, stir the grinds with a funnel carefully, paying attention to the edges of the basket and making sure the coffee bed is relatively levelled and level tamp ensuring my tamp is levelled as it enters the basket.

The end result in the cup is the same.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I use a Kafetek Levtamp in Wenge as it has a smooth action and obviously guarantees a level tamp.

For the Markets I do I got the Force Tamper as I wanted to ensure that girls working with me applied the same pressure each time and was level. Plus there is no rsi issues as it needs a very light push before it 'triggers'

If I was using just for home I'd stick with my Levtamp.


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

@kico ; here's something to throw into the mix. I have a Decent Espresso v1 calibrated tamper (ungrooved) fitted with a 25lb spring in excellent condition. I genuinely think it was my favourite of all the espresso purchases that I made, design and function wise, and to me it's perfect and every time I used it, it brought pleasure. I also have a spare 30lb spring that's never been used.

Although I sold my espresso machine some months ago I was hanging onto the tamper and some other bits, just in case I go back to espresso in the future. But to be honest, I think that's unlikely.

If you're interested I'd be prepared to bundle the tamper, spare spring and a black Motta 58.4 distributor, again in excellent condition and post to you for £100 all in.

http://

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/index.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> I don't know about the distributor. Some people say the bravo is the best of the bunch due to the way it works (a piston slowly lowering into the bed). I'd get one purely to test it. It's up to you. Some people think distributors don't do anything worthwhile, I'm still undecided personally but am leaning towards they don't do much.


 I "spent a ridiculous amount", just ordered the force tamper. It can be used to level, but also the bravo is £65 cheaper and will always leave me doubting if I should've tried the "best" rated one. Did I make the right choice with the force tamper size - 58.5 vs 58.35?? The lelit 58.55 one fits fine into the vst basket.



MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't think they do anything extraordinary - it's a question of workflow. IMO, all they do is to allow you to tamp on a flat, somewhat evenly distributed surface, and speed up your workflow a tiny bit, allows you to be more careless, to an extent.
> 
> The end result in the cup is the same.


 Thanks for alleviating any doubt. I did read more into this. Seems like my cheap wedge one is more than okay even if it has no noticeable benefit other than helping me be careless.



Stevebee said:


> I use a Kafetek Levtamp in Wenge as it has a smooth action and obviously guarantees a level tamp.
> 
> For the Markets I do I got the Force Tamper as I wanted to ensure that girls working with me applied the same pressure each time and was level. Plus there is no rsi issues as it needs a very light push before it 'triggers'
> 
> If I was using just for home I'd stick with my Levtamp.


 I don't think I purchased it for any rsi / strength issues! I just ordered the force 58.5 to use with VST, I heard it is far more satisfying to use / you feel when it is done. It's more or less the last tamper I'd need. Did I make the right choice with the size - 58.5 vs 58.35??



salty said:


> @kico ; here's something to throw into the mix. I have a Decent Espresso v1 calibrated tamper (ungrooved) fitted with a 25lb spring in excellent condition. I genuinely think it was my favourite of all the espresso purchases that I made, design and function wise, and to me it's perfect and every time I used it, it brought pleasure. I also have a spare 30lb spring that's never been used.
> 
> Although I sold my espresso machine some months ago I was hanging onto the tamper and some other bits, just in case I go back to espresso in the future. But to be honest, I think that's unlikely.
> 
> If you're interested I'd be prepared to bundle the tamper, spare spring and a black Motta 58.4 distributor, again in excellent condition and post to you for £100 all in.


 Thanks for the offer, I just bit the bullet and ordered the force 58.5


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

kico said:


> Thanks for the offer, I just bit the bullet and ordered the force 58.5m


No probs - the Force sounds great!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I've got the base sizes, 58.35 and 58.5. At weekends I use the 58.35 as I didn't want risk any suction on puck, although the I haven't experienced any. Either work well in a Decent basket, havent tried the VST yet. The base I use is EU curve ripple as it seems to give even extraction. It is a joy to use. Tempted to get one for me as well!


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Stevebee said:


> I've got the base sizes, 58.35 and 58.5. At weekends I use the 58.35 as I didn't want risk any suction on puck, although the I haven't experienced any. Either work well in a Decent basket, havent tried the VST yet. The base I use is EU curve ripple as it seems to give even extraction. It is a joy to use. Tempted to get one for me as well!


 Good to know, I see that these different size bases are £20 inc the shipping from ebay. Until I saw the force I didn't know such a thing like an eu curve existed!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Force-Tamper-Switchable-Tamper-Base-and-Distributor-Base/172654050829?hash=item2832fbbe0d:g:Ky8AAOSwrhBZBng9

These sorts of comments from a google, and the fact all of the amazing shots I've seen use VST / IMS paired with the 58.5 force tamper made me get the 58.5

I hope there are no suction issues but will update regardless!

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/5xayzv/i_got_a_5835mm_tamper_and_vst_basket_and_no_one/deh6i4i/?utm_source=reddit%26utm_medium=web2x%26context=3


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I don't think they do anything extraordinary - it's a question of workflow. IMO, all they do is to allow you to tamp on a flat, somewhat evenly distributed surface, and speed up your workflow a tiny bit, allows you to be more careless, to an extent.
> 
> Using a Niche Zero: I've tried with and without this week and the results are exactly the same, whether
> 
> ...


 I've been using a 'scarlet espresso' wedge type distributor and a Mahlgut Dozer in two ways.

1: The ordinary method of set depth, put in basket and spin.

2: My method which is to shim the adjustment ring so it just catches the threads of the piston allowing you to screw it down through the bed. This slowly moves the grinds around while also slowly compacting and gives better and more consistent results than using it at a set depth.

I've also been using a cocktail stick to quickly stir the grinds in the portafilter after dosing direct from the Niche. More often than not a quick clockwise and and anti-clockwise spin around with the cocktail stick and a tap on the counter is enough to get a nice even level bed to tamp on. The shots with the distributors run slower and definitely taste different but not necessarily better or worse. Visually the cocktail stick method is better than cocktail stick+distributor or distributor alone (used in either way) but both result in a quickly forming central stream. The difference is with the distributor the basket beads across the surface but takes a second longer to bead around the edges whereas with just the cocktail stick it beads pretty much evenly across the bottom starting outside in a split second apart.

I don't think all distributors are made equal. I think the ones with sharper, more pronounced 'fins' do a better job than ones with shallow fins with large flat areas in contact with the coffee. In the case of the wedge style I thought the same applies, i.e the more pronouned the 'v' shape the better, but it seems I was wrong and maybe three or four well defined fins do a better job. I would think the Jack Leveller is good based on this. The V shape seems to compact less in the very middle of the basket and results in slightly concave pucks after the extraction.

I need to get a centrifuge 3d printed and then I can spin samples and get EY data for the three methods. I might have a bravo distributor by then too so could have that to test.

I think screwing the distributor down basically applies massive tamping force hence the slower shot.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

kico said:


> I "spent a ridiculous amount", just ordered the force tamper. It can be used to level, but also the bravo is £65 cheaper and will always leave me doubting if I should've tried the "best" rated one. Did I make the right choice with the force tamper size - 58.5 vs 58.35?? The lelit 58.55 one fits fine into the vst basket.


 I wouldn't worry too much about the vacuum effect. The force has a very thin base. I think the vacuum is only an issue when the tamper is quite thick and not tapered.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about the vacuum effect. The force has a very thin base. I think the vacuum is only an issue when the tamper is quite thick and not tapered.


 i.e.: The tamper I had! 😂


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> i.e.: The tamper I had!


Which one did you have?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kico said:


> Which one did you have?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk


 Answered here:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55789-calibrated-tamper-advice-please/?do=embed&comment=790503&embedComment=790503&embedDo=findComment

Short answer: MBK = Made by Knock, back in the day when they made those things. They don't seem to make them anymore.

(page below seems to be an orphan page for nostalgic purposes and obviously still indexed by our overlord Google....) 🙂

http://www.madebyknock.com/simple-tamper.html


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## Se99jmk (Aug 30, 2020)

kico said:


> I "spent a ridiculous amount", just ordered the force tamper. It can be used to level, but also the bravo is £65 cheaper and will always leave me doubting if I should've tried the "best" rated one. Did I make the right choice with the force tamper size - 58.5 vs 58.35?? The lelit 58.55 one fits fine into the vst basket.
> 
> Thanks for alleviating any doubt. I did read more into this. Seems like my cheap wedge one is more than okay even if it has no noticeable benefit other than helping me be careless.
> 
> ...


 So how did you find the Force Tamper? I'm thinking of getting one to use with VST baskets, so 58.5 like you.

recommended place to get it from?


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## kico (Oct 16, 2020)

Se99jmk said:


> So how did you find the Force Tamper? I'm thinking of getting one to use with VST baskets, so 58.5 like you.
> 
> recommended place to get it from?


 Hi,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you!

It's great but does have its quirks. Coffee collects between the two parts after a few tamps, but it takes a couple of seconds to brush out over the sink. As long as you tamp on a flat surface, hold down the base and push down in a straight line (not pushing the handle at an angle) it will be a perfect tamp, all the time.

You can easily adjust the punch force but it comes calibrated. Just unscrew and turn the inner piece with a coin. I've kept it as is.

I bought it from starmoonxp (instagram username), the creator. I think including delivery I paid around £180. I'm getting hounded by fedex trying to rip me off for import fees including £20 admin charges, bringing the total extra cost to £30.

Starmoonxp let me choose the colour, and I ordered the 58.5mm flat base, flat distribution tool base, and eu curve ripple base. I went with the jelly handle in black, to match my lelit mara x as I don't like the wooden look.

The seller listed the value as 30USD for the tracking info to save excessive import costs. Re the admin charge, I've found out online that I have no legal duty to pay this made up admin charge. I only have to pay the VAT. I've asked for an amended invoice (we are going back and fourth). May just ask for the delivery info so I can pay the VAT office directly, and ignore them. Just fedex trying it when they can to rip people off.

I haven't played around with the different bases, I didn't like the faint line the distribution tool left, but I may revisit it and see if it actually does not affect anything like others claim.

I was looking at the bravo tamper from the creator on instagram too. Similar price for the tamper + distributor, and then import charges on top.

Force tamper can also be bought from other sellers on Amazon, not sure if you are protected from import charges. Best to check / the seller / owner is friendly through Instagram and can offer a slightly better price direct.

I'd rate it 8/10 if the costs ends up being £210-220. I heard of cafes using it for 3+ years and it is still going strong. I don't see it ever breaking, you really can feel the force and it's impressive. Takes the worry out of the tamp / another variable to not be concerned about.

I still don't (and won't) tell anybody "normal" how much I paid for it...


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