# Gaggia classic PID or new machine?



## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

So after a few months of owning a classic and a mignon I'm pretty hooked.

I've got a consistent routine, I'm generally happy with my coffee and I feel I'm learning a lot about beans, extraction ratios etc.

However the thing that is currently annoying me at the minute is temperature, and I feel like I'm fumbling in the dark with it. I was thinking of just saving my pennies and buying something like a brewtus in about 5 months time and be done with it.

Life being what it is, this might not be the best use of my money at the minute and as I generally make one or two coffees a day mainly for myself it seems a little bit overkill.

I was wondering if, for one off drinks (about 50:50 espresso:flat white) getting a PID for the gaggia might give me similar results for a lot less money?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

PIDing a Classic makes a huge difference. For the ease with which it can be done, and the cost of the components, it's a no-brainer really.

Ideally put a brass dispersion plate on it as well (replacing the standard aluminium one), as that helps with thermal mass of the brew path and hence temp stability.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

I added a PID to mine. It made a huge difference. The simple fact that you could see the temperature when pulling a shot made a massive improvement to my shots.

In the end I did both. I added a PID, a few month later I got upgraditis and went for a Profitec 700


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

Aaron, for someone just starting out and generally making one drink at a time, do you reckon I would get much benefit from buying a Brewtus (obviously slightly less shiny but in the ballpark of your Profitec) compared to just PIDing the gaggia? My main worry with the PID is that they don't seem to add much resale value (compared to their price tag!) to the classic and I don't have the funds to do both - just about 1 (brewtus) or much easier t'other (PID).


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## MooMaa (Jul 29, 2013)

I added a DIY PID to my classic and it made it so much more consistent and just so much user friendly to use, in that you don't have to think about temp surfing to get the right temp as you have set it and as a bonus it really improved the steam power. I make between 2 and 4 milk based drinks a day and do not feel the need to upgrade the classic at all, its a great little machine.

If you want to upgrade get a MAJOR they are Grrrrrrrreat (I love my major)


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

You can do a DIY PID to the classic for around £50. I'd recommend it 100%, I did it to mine and it helps tons. The shots and control was so much better after fitting.


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

I think my classic is a champion. I make 1 coffee in the morning for my wife and I, and I just cant justify upgrading. We both like what is currently produced, but as my technique improves my wife does notice a difference. A PID is perfectly justifiable, but a new machine would be getting me in trouble! Ripping apart a Classic is a joy in itself and everyone should have the pleasure:coffee:


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

I was thinking about doing a DIY PID but as someone with limited DIY knowledge and no tools other than a couple of screwdrivers in my tiny London flat, I thought it might end up being a false economy as I'd have to buy EVERYTHING and would probably never use half of it again.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Toolstation and screwfix are super cheap nowadays. You only need some wire snips, electrical screwdriver, maybe a soldering iron and solder wick, maybe a hacksaw blade.

I'd be surprised if all of the tools combined cost you much more than £20.


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

Hmm, NJD, are there any good guides out there? A quick google has opened a pandoras box of people arguing about PIDs! I would have exactly the same set up as you if I did it, including the tamper! Thanks!


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?19674-DIY-PID-Steam-and-Brew/ aha! Found this. Tempted...


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Don't wish to pee on yer bonfire Phillikescoffee but when I had my Classic I also considered doing the PID mod and did a fair amount of research but the main problem seems to be what's known as 'intrashot temperature stability' , basically the boiler in the Classic is quite small and as the shot starts cold water is fed into the boiler to replace the water leaving and this has the effect of cooling the water leaving the boiler towards the end of the shot as the heating element in the boiler can't 'keep up'.

Fitting a PID might be useful to be able to select a temperature at the start of the shot but the Classic isn't able to maintain that temperature throughout the shot.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

If you have the funds then go straight for the Brewtus/Expobar you won't regret it.

Good as the Classic is it really doesn't come close to the Expobar.

The one thing that will change with the Expobar is that you will make more coffee each day:coffee:


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice. I'm fine with pissy bonfires, my main concern is not spending money that is then wasted. Hmm...


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

I had this same debate with myself before I pidded (sp?) the Classic.

In my head I thought I would try the PID and see if it resolved my upgraditis, it didn't. What I didn't want to do was spend all that money on a machine upfront only to realise I actually wasn't that bothered, and it was just a bit of a phase.

So in essence I spent £130 on the PID and kept it for 5 months before upgrading to the Profitec.

I would say the PID added no more than £50 to the value of the machine. So I guess I lost £80. But for me, that was better than dropping £1800 on a new machine that I didn't really care about or use. I wasn't too bothered by this loss, especially as I had enjoyed 5 months of far superior coffee than before.

If you are 100% sure that you are into coffee for the long haul then go for the new machine









Aaron


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## domjon1 (Feb 14, 2013)

I was in the exact same predicament for a while...I probably make a few more drinks than you but I doubt very much you'd feel it's a waste of money once you've got a shiny HX or DB on your bench. Keep checking the for sale forum for a bargain and pull the trigger when something catches your eye..by the time you factor in reselling your classic it doesn't have to be a massive investment and even if it doesn't work out you can always sell it and go back to a classic for minimal loss. You won't want to though, it's all so much easier with the higher end kit. The classic is a greater starter machine but you only have to look at how many people on here follow the same upgrade path to get your answer.


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

Hmm. I've realised I can maybe get the tools to diy PID at work so tempted to give that a go but yeah, I feel I'm inevitably going to upgrade at some point (and being a tight arse brewtus ticks the boxes for me). Thanks again for all your help people.


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## MooMaa (Jul 29, 2013)

emin-j said:


> Don't wish to pee on yer bonfire Phillikescoffee but when I had my Classic I also considered doing the PID mod and did a fair amount of research but the main problem seems to be what's known as 'intrashot temperature stability' , basically the boiler in the Classic is quite small and as the shot starts cold water is fed into the boiler to replace the water leaving and this has the effect of cooling the water leaving the boiler towards the end of the shot as the heating element in the boiler can't 'keep up'.
> 
> Fitting a PID might be useful to be able to select a temperature at the start of the shot but the Classic isn't able to maintain that temperature throughout the shot.


You can get around the intershot stability issue fairly easily with a PID fitted as you set your starting temp on the PID, then flick the steam switch on for 4 seconds wait three seconds then start the shot, this means the element is heating the cold water as it comes in so you get a decent stability throughout the shot, OK it's not going to be as stable as a Brewtus etc but it's pretty good having measured it. I am sure there was a post about it a couple of months ago with others measuring it.

Here's a link to some guy showing temp stability using this trick


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## Phillikescoffee (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks moomaa (great name). Going to see how feasible it would be to diy PID at work I think. If I did that would only cost 30 or so quid so not much lost either way.


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## MooMaa (Jul 29, 2013)

Phillikescoffee said:


> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?19674-DIY-PID-Steam-and-Brew/ aha! Found this. Tempted...


These were the instructions I followed, 4 hours over a couple of nights, with a bit of help from other forum members. Very worth the effort


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