# Gaggia Classic 2015+? Should I avoid?



## Home Coffee Tips (May 5, 2020)

Hi all,

I've been researching the Gaggia Classic a lot recently and there seems to be a common consensus to avoid any of the newer models (2015+). I was just wondering what the difference was and why you should avoid the newer models?

Also, thoughts on the Gaggia Classic Pro? How does this compare to an older version with the steam arm mod?


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## mr-bean (Nov 26, 2018)

The later model has a slightly larger stainless steel boiler but is fitted with a plastic steam valve. It also has no solenoid and some pipes are replaced with cotton braided type.

It has an annoying EU timer that cuts off power every 10 minutes or so and is harder to fit with a PID control because of space inside.

I have both this model and the old pre 2015 and I much prefer the older model even after fitting both with PID's and other mods.

In my opinion the new Pro model is over priced even though Gaggia got it right going back to the old pre 2015 boiler and a metal steam valve.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

It depends where in the world you are....

The 'avoided' 2015-2018 model was only available in the EU - as a Gaggia quickfix to EU energy laws etc

In many other parts of the world the machine didn't change - so in the US for example, a 2015 or 2016 machine is essentially the same as any other.

The Gaggia Classic Pro (as it's called in the US) and the Gaggia Classic 2019 (or similar, as it's called in the UK) is the 'traditional' (ie good) Classic internals - but with a different steam wand and a different switch panel design. In the EU it also has the same box of electronics as the 2015-18 version that implements the eco timer turn-off. The US version (again) doesn't have this box of electronics and hence doesn't have the eco energy timer.

Hope that clarifies things?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zucaritask (May 24, 2020)

MrShades said:


> It depends where in the world you are....
> 
> The 'avoided' 2015-2018 model was only available in the EU - as a Gaggia quickfix to EU energy laws etc
> 
> ...


 Based on your very insightful comment and the fact that I got to this forum looking for your PID solution for the Gaggia Classic.
@MrShades, can I install your PID mod on the Gaggia Classic 2019 ? Thanks


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

zucaritask said:


> Based on your very insightful comment and the fact that I got to this forum looking for your PID solution for the Gaggia Classic.
> @MrShades, can I install your PID mod on the Gaggia Classic 2019 ? Thanks


Yes, Classic 2019 goes back to the 'proper' Classic internals - and you can fit my PID kit (and OPV kit, and timer disable cable) to it.

The PID kit for the 2019 has very slightly different wiring so make sure you get the correct version.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Home Coffee Tips (May 5, 2020)

MrShades said:


> It depends where in the world you are....
> 
> The 'avoided' 2015-2018 model was only available in the EU - as a Gaggia quickfix to EU energy laws etc
> 
> ...


 Thanks for your insight, that certainly clears things up. Looks like Gaggia have redeemed themselves with the 2019 model!


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

mr-bean said:


> n my opinion the new Pro model is over priced even though Gaggia got it right going back to the old pre 2015 boiler and a metal steam valve.


 Have you usen the price some people are asking for a 10 - 20 year old bog standard machine. It might be £100-200 more expensive but there is 10 years + of wear and tear to factor in.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Nightrider_1uk said:


> Have you usen the price some people are asking for a 10 - 20 year old bog standard machine. It might be £100-200 more expensive but there is 10 years + of wear and tear to factor in.


 That wear and tear can often be fixed with a £10 set of gaskets, some descaler and an attack with Pulycafe or Caffiza. Those latter products you should be buying anyway for maintenance. It's what's known as Russian reliability. May not be the best, but it's easy to get parts and they're reasonably easy to fit. If you set your mind to it, it's entirely possible to build a Classic from spares if you have a chassis to put the parts in, and then upgrade it with a PID and better steam wand.


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

allikat said:


> That wear and tear can often be fixed with a £10 set of gaskets, some descaler and an attack with Pulycafe or Caffiza. Those latter products you should be buying anyway for maintenance. It's what's known as Russian reliability. May not be the best, but it's easy to get parts and they're reasonably easy to fit. If you set your mind to it, it's entirely possible to build a Classic from spares if you have a chassis to put the parts in, and then upgrade it with a PID and better steam wand.


 I Don't disagree with you Allikat, I was suggesting that with the prices that the older models are currently fetching it is worth weighing up the pro's and con's of purchasing a new machine, who's condition you know against an older machine who's condition you don't. Of course reflection should include any mod's the old machine may have, but for bog standard machine vs bog standard machines I think its worth giving the new machine some thought. I did and seriously considered buying a new one and if i could have got one at the right price I might well have done. I ended up buying an early 2005 one from a forum member a couple of weeks ago, it has PID, steam wand and OPV mods to it.

On the subject of cleaning etc, what descaler would you recumbent and would you recommend Calfiz or Pulycaf.

My machine didn't have a vent pipe on it, would you recommend I fit one (probably wise if i'm weighing the shot whilst it is pulled). Do you know the size, I think i read somewhere 6mm od.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

The vent pipe is optional, so long as the OPV can drain into the water tank without drenching the inside of the machine it's all fine.

I have Puly Cleaner as a descaler, and Caffiza as my cleaner. But pretty much anything Puly is recommended. You could go all Puly if you wanted, and you would be fine.

On the price front, you're right. the current situation is a bit odd, and what's worth it for one person isn't a good deal for another.


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Nightrider_1uk said:


> My machine didn't have a vent pipe on it


 Do you mean the stainless steel drainage pipe back into the tray is missing - or the the teflon plastic return from the OPV to the water tank is missing or there is no fitting for one?

If you are missing a pipe or a tube, you can buy original or find some that fits.👍


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## Nightrider_1uk (Apr 26, 2020)

Agentb said:


> Do you mean the stainless steel drainage pipe back into the tray is missing - or the the teflon plastic return from the OPV to the water tank is missing or there is no fitting for one?
> 
> If you are missing a pipe or a tube, you can buy original or find some that fits.👍


 Its the steel pipe on the outside of the machine to the drip tray thats missing. (Sorry should have been clearer). I'm going to get some stainless steel pipe (I might put on a reduced height drip try at some point) hence the reason for also asking the size.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Home Coffee Tips said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I've been researching the Gaggia Classic a lot recently and there seems to be a common consensus to avoid any of the newer models (2015+). I was just wondering what the difference was and why you should avoid the newer models?
> 
> Also, thoughts on the Gaggia Classic Pro? How does this compare to an older version with the steam arm mod?


 As somebody who has just bought one, a few thoughts i have on this version of the Gaggia from my research...

I like this version (2015). I think Gaggia did a lot of good with it.

I like the Stainless boiler. It's a far better material for heating water than aluminium. Less corrosion, less contamination, its bigger, its simpler. It has a far better steam output.

I like the mechanical valve in place of the solenoid. Call me daft, but fiddling around in the guts of the machine to replace the valves when they (invariably) do block is not my idea of fun. 3 way plumbing and solenoid valves are intended for quick-turnaround industrial machines where you need speed and used puck dryness can be an issue. In a domestic environment, this is simply not a problem. With the mechanical valve, the user can now clean it easily. Its less prone to failure and less complicated. No dump pipe required either which is less messy.

I like the standby switch logic. Why wouldn't you like this? who wants to have a domestic machine on 24/7?

I like the better pump it has, i like the better layed out internals. I like the use of modern, cleaner internal plumbing.

I like the switches better (oddly enough).

I like the new steam valve. Its on-off only to eliminate wire-drawing common in steam controls and thus reduce leaks.

I like the Steam wand pannarello. Its a domestic unit, not professional. If i could add one criticism, it should have come with the latte art wand as well but, costs etc

I like how Gaggia made it a easy to use machine. Its an out-of-the box pressurised espresso machine but which can be used for unpressurised espresso if needed. No unpressurised filters? no, on purpose.

Its not a professional machine and doesn't pretend to be, nor should it. In being that, it saves money and is more affordable. Why on earth would Gaggia make a machine for domestic use, engineered for industrial use? It is bad design to do that. If you wan't a professional machine, go buy one. I don't understand why people buy these new with the intention of adding PID's, Pressure gauges, etc, etc. Just buy a machine that does that out of the box.

I don't mind the fixed safety relief valve. I am still not convinced that the OPV mod is something anyone but an uber-nerd should be thinking about. Its been said before that pressure management should be done at the puck, not the pump.

I don't like the plastic spout though, and i am ambivalent with regards to some of the plastic in the grouphead.

Reviews of its performance seem good. Better than the Mk1 in some respects.

The return to aluminium and solenoids is a step backwards imho. And i'll include the steam wand in that.

What Gaggia should have done, is keep the V2 as the classic machine with pressurised filters and frothing aid wands and the mechanical valve and the fixed safety valve and aimed that at the std user, and then added the industrial wand, unpressurised baskets, solenoid valves, chromed spouts, etc to a "Pro" version.

The std version should be just for normal bods who have no interest in "God Shots" and buy their espresso coffee pre-ground.

The Pro version should be for the Barista wannbe.

For the price the V2's go, they are a bargain, but also a bit of a shame and i don't think it looks good on the espresso community that 20 year old units are championed over modern updates. Just because stuff changes, doesn't mean its a bad thing.

#controversial.


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## phario (May 7, 2017)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Its not a professional machine and doesn't pretend to be, nor should it. In being that, it saves money and is more affordable. Why on earth would Gaggia make a machine for domestic use, engineered for industrial use? It is bad design to do that. If you wan't a professional machine, go buy one. I don't understand why people buy these new with the intention of adding PID's, Pressure gauges, etc, etc. Just buy a machine that does that out of the box.


 I think you're playing with concepts that have a range of interpretations (namely 'professional' and 'domestic').

For example, look at how phones and laptops todays are non-upgradeable with soldered in components and batteries that cannot be replaced. By a similar logic, the manufacturer would argue that the typical 'domestic' user doesn't care about opening up their laptops and swapping RAM, fixing broken components, buying additional batteries. The modern laptop is designed to be serviced by certified specialists, and replaced after a few years. If you're a 'professional' you wouldn't buy a 'domestic' device. Indeed, this is the current logic of most manufacturers and we now live in an age of planned obsolescence.

The bottom line is that people here like the Gaggia Classic because it is an affordable device that is based around a design that allows upgradeability and serviceability. These qualities of upgradeability and serviceability are not typically associated with domestic kitchen appliances.

The critique of the 2015 models was that it involved a cheapening of components for the purpose of cutting costs or meeting new regulations without yielding benefits in terms of the above principles. Keep in mind I am not saying this is true and not overblown! The whole "why add PIDs, pressure gauges, etc." is a different argument and has little to do with the 'domestic' vs. 'professional'---that's a bit like asking a modder why they modded their device instead of buying an all-in-one package. The answer here is that people enjoy modding and improving devices in unique ways.

I don't disagree with what you've written in general, and I think the 2015-2018 models are just fine to be honest. But I think your critique of 'domestic' vs. 'professional' misses the point.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

phario said:


> I think you're playing with concepts that have a range of interpretations (namely 'professional' and 'domestic').
> 
> For example, look at how phones and laptops todays are non-upgradeable with soldered in components and batteries that cannot be replaced. By a similar logic, the manufacturer would argue that the typical 'domestic' user doesn't care about opening up their laptops and swapping RAM, fixing broken components, buying additional batteries. The modern laptop is designed to be serviced by certified specialists, and replaced after a few years. If you're a 'professional' you wouldn't buy a 'domestic' device. Indeed, this is the current logic of most manufacturers and we now live in an age of planned obsolescence.
> 
> ...


 I like the concept (lattelove?) that these are machines and not appliances and i agree with you in that regard.

i don't think Gaggia went down the road of appliance with the Classic V2, it is perhaps even more serviceable than the V1 in some respects, but i do think it is criticized unfairly in some regards.

(I freely admit to not having used an espresso machine yet! my observations a based on many hours of research and study of what it is i have bought.)


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## facboy (Dec 13, 2019)

phario said:


> <snip>
> 
> The modern laptop is designed to be serviced by certified specialists, and replaced after a few years.
> 
> <snip>


 If by serviced you mean, 'thrown out'.

As you say, almost everything is soldered in. Pretty much anything that would normally be 'inside' a desktop pc (cpu, gpu, ram, storage!) is soldered on to the motherboard in a laptop, so if anything breaks, they bin the whole motherboard. Horrendous from an environmental point of view, you would think.


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