# Tesco Clearview no more?



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

I've been down to the local couple of Tescos and Clearview water has now completely disappeared. Has anyone else noticed this?

Looking at Tesco online you can't buy it there either so i'm guessing the brand has been dropped (wasn't it one of those Tesco stealth brands anyhow?).


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Looks like it's dried up


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I need a decent sainsburys solution for water


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

Disappeared from my local store, also. On Ashbeck now.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> I need a decent sainsburys solution for water


Obviously not as cheap as Clearview from Tesco but Sainsbury's are cheaper on Volvic than Tesco. 6 x 1.5 litre @ £3.50 or two packs for £5.50. 50p cashback available from checkoutsmart app bringing the price down to £5 for 18 litres


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DoubleShot said:


> Obviously not as cheap as Clearview from Tesco but Sainsbury's are cheaper on Volvic than Tesco. 6 x 1.5 litre @ £3.50 or two packs for £5.50. 50p cashback available from checkoutsmart app bringing the price down to £5 for 18 litres


Yeah the water guru's keep telling me that Volvic is pants ....


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Really?! From what I've read Volvic is the water recommended by most as the best tasting and kindest to your machine.


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> Really?! From what I've read Volvic is the water recommended by most as the best tasting and kindest to your machine.


I think Volvic is recommended for machines but is not the best for brewed. Still decent for brewed though.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Ah, okay. Didn't see brewed mentioned in OP but should have known better when Boots made an appearance, he's really into his brewed!


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Clearview had also vanished from my local Tesco's last week, so i bought Ashbeck. 2 weeks before that they had loads.

I'm sure that Ashbeck is from the same source as Clearview but is just labelled differently. Xpenno says that the label analysis on bottled often don't match the actual contents anyway...

I'm running out of Waitrose essentials so need to make a long trip soon to restock.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Step21 said:


> I'm sure that Ashbeck is from the same source as Clearview but is just labelled differently.


It is, same as Eden Falls from ASDA. All have slightly different numbers on the label, though without doing your own tests you wouldn't know how it differs to reality


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

By 'doing your own tests' do you mean using a TDS gizmo plus letting your tastebuds get in on the act?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Geordie Boy said:


> It is, same as Eden Falls from ASDA. All have slightly different numbers on the label, though without doing your own tests you wouldn't know how it differs to reality


Thanks - didn't know that. I'll see if i can pick up a bottle next time i'm in ASDA and try it out.


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

I more meant getting the full composition (calcium, magnesium, etc content). Although they're all labeled as the same source, who knows whether there's different filters or how variable the composition is from the time of the test to what can come out today


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

spence is definitely the person to chat to about water and what can be acheived


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## stevogums (May 8, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Yeah the water guru's keep telling me that Volvic is pants ....


I hope not as that's all I feed my L1.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

stevogums said:


> I hope not as that's all I feed my L1.


Won't do the machine any harm


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## Robert McLean (Feb 13, 2015)

Is the aim here to get the most neutrally tasting water so 'no water taste' can affect the coffee taste?

With my recent coffee machine purchase I gained a DI vessel, to plumb into the system before the machines tank. These systems are sold widely and would appear to be a fantastic solution.

I understand a little about Reverse Osmosis, deionisation & other forms of purifying water.

What I don't know about are the processes of bottling water that is sold in supermarkets so this viewpoint is only from RO & DI water.

There is a sizable debate on the aggressive nature of DI water and it's negative interaction with the body.

See here - http://www.finishing.com/110/17-3.shtml

I would not use DI water under any circumstances for drinking and or putting water through a coffee machine. It is just too aggressive and will draw from the metal pipework, within the machines plumbing and will also ............ well at this point it is easier to read the debate above

Onto RO water.

Not everyone has access to this form of removing impurities but it is accepted that it is a safe methodology for purifying water, particularly for drinking.

It takes out (as does DI) impurities, additions put into the water by the water companies and anything else it picks up along the way before it comes out of the tap but does not have the same aggressive characteristics as DI

I have a set up in my trading address and can purify 2000 litres per day, not that I do as we seldom use it now and have drunk it. It has no taste.

I have had a busy week and have not got my machine set up yet but my intention is to use RO water, certainly not DI water and not bottled water.

Small under the counter RO units are widely available and ought to be considered as a cost that once set up will be cheaper than buying bottled.

Yes you will have to replace the filters every now and then but it should still work out cheaper and you will know exactly what is going through your machine and it will have no taste to interfere with the coffee taste.

I may be wrong though

Rob


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Robert McLean said:


> Is the aim here to get the most neutrally tasting water so 'no water taste' can affect the coffee taste?
> 
> Rob


The aim is threefold: To minimise scale build up, to provide enough mineral composition to effect a good level of extraction (DI water won't do this), which in turn will help produce a good coffee flavour (which can be considered as separate to the water's flavour itself), if the mineral content is in favourable proportions.

Not sure what a "neutral" water would be, I have wondered what could be considered a widely available 'datum' water...the Cumbrian, Armathwaite waters look like a good bet, Waitrose Essential, Volvic seems reasonably popular too.

There are some unusual views expressed in the link, water isn't quite tasteless, the fact that that it may have some taste isn't necessarily a bad thing, drinking water always has stuff in it.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

We did some side by side tests today for the brewers cup.

1. 100% ashbeck ppm 78- thin, acidic, lacking sweetness, unbalanced, drying. horrid!

2. 50/50 ashbeck/ roastery ppm 220 - balanced, clarity, clean, sweet, juicy. Represented the coffee most fairly.

3. 100% roastery 385ppm - rich, sweet, slightly muddled, gluggable, satisfying.

2 and 3 both had fans, although for a comp where you want clarity , 2 wins.


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

I occasionally buy Prince Charlie's Duchy sparkling water, better tasting than the Italian and French ones in my view, but for my coffee machine, I use my own RO system...

When I first acquired my coffee machine, I was just going to use the RO water that had been on tap in my house for over twenty years. During that time, it was used for tea and coffee (water boiled in kettle), but we rarely drank it "neat", preferring a bottle of something.

It all changed when I bought the machine from Reiss, I ordered the first and in Reiss's mind only plumbed L1... He relented quite quickly and I think a good few were sold, before he reverted to a standard machine that could be converted. I told him that I was proposing to use RO water and he pointed out the problems, the Insanely long diatribe from Jim Schulman regarding water, and the SCAA coffee taste recommendations.

Talk about confusing...

Anyway, Reiss bought two Pure-Pro (top of the range) RO systems... Pumped with a TDS meter on board. And I set mine up (Reiss never got around to it), along with the little re-mineralisation cartridge that was supplied by Pure-Pro as part of the kit. I tried a couple of other remineralisation cartridges and took measurements as I went...

Two and a half years later and one filter change... RO membrane should last for years... Some piccies...









As can be observed, having passed through the RO membrane the water contains 00 PPM dissolved solids... Following remineralisation, the TDS meter now reads 74 ppm of dissolved solids...

I know two things now...

I know that my water had nothing extra in it, and then that I added a cocktail of Calcium and Magnesium chips and pushed the TDS up to 74 ppm... A TDS meter is not clever enough to tell you what is in the water, just how much, so such a meter can only be used usefully, if you already know that you have started with clean water.

PH was tested this morning at 7.6.

Anyway, the upshot is, that a not unreasonable capital investment can avoid the need to go scrambling around supermarkets struggling with a trolly load of plastic bottles.

I highly recommend plumbing in.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Robert McLean said:


> I have had a busy week and have not got my machine set up yet but my intention is to use RO water, certainly not DI water and not bottled water.


Hi Robert,

from my research there are a few reasons not to use RO water in machines that boil water. I've read some info on the effects on the body but it's inconclusive and by the time you've run it through you coffee it's not RO any more so I think you should be OK to discount this one.

RO water has no metal ions (maybe some Iron) present. This makes it an aggressively attack the metal from machine boilers and you end up with pitting and eventually holes or explosions.

Since RO water has no Alkalinity it's pH will not remain stable and only the smallest amount of acid/alkali will mean massive fluctuations. Coffee is acidic and as such this is not good practice.

RO water doesn't contain any Calcium or Magnesium so it has limited ability to extract many of the tasty flavour compounds from coffee.

RO water has low TDS this means that the water acts more aggressively (when compared to 100-200ppm water) as a solvent and you end up with a bunch of stuff that you potentially didn't want in your cup.

Cheers

Spence


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> We did some side by side tests today for the brewers cup.
> 
> 1. 100% ashbeck ppm 78- thin, acidic, lacking sweetness, unbalanced, drying. horrid!
> 
> ...


Have you tried mixing RO and Roastery water to get down to 150-200ppm but maintaining the balance of ions?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

DoubleShot said:


> Really?! From what I've read Volvic is the water recommended by most as the best tasting and kindest to your machine.


Volvic is ok for espresso, it's safe for your machine and has a decent mineral content. You may find shots slightly dull and lacking in body due to its high alkalinity and low overall TDS. I don't like it personally.


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## stevogums (May 8, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> Volvic is ok for espresso, it's safe for your machine and has a decent mineral content. You may find shots slightly dull and lacking in body due to its high alkalinity and low overall TDS. I don't like it personally.


So saying that would I notice the taste difference if I opted for another water?,being that I use Volvic .

Would the taste of my espresso improve enough to :-

1 Be noticeable palate wise and

2 Warrent the price increase if I went for filter system ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> Volvic is ok for espresso, it's safe for your machine and has a decent mineral content. You may find shots slightly dull and lacking in body due to its high alkalinity and low overall TDS. I don't like it personally.


What would you recommend for espresso?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

stevogums said:


> So saying that would I notice the taste difference if I opted for another water?,being that I use Volvic .
> 
> Would the taste of my espresso improve enough to :-
> 
> ...


1 - Depends on your palate I suppose.

2 - A filter system won't necessarily help you, depends on the make-up of your tap water.

People who have far more knowledge than me on the subject recommend a ratio of Hardness to Alkalinity of around 2:1. This is somewhat backed up by the SCAA water guidelines that recommend 1.75:1 ratio. Volvic has 1:1 ratio. This means that the Alkalinity will inhibit the Calcium and Magnesium's extracting power of flavour compounds. I'm not saying that you can't make good espresso from Volvic, you can and I have done so, it's just not as good as water that is closer to the ideal specification. The problem is that no bottled water that I've seen so far really fits with these recommendations.

Imho there is a big difference between good and bad water for coffee. It depends on how much time you are willing to invest. I've spent a lot of time researching and learning about how to make my own brew water from RO using everyday chemicals. I now have a product that I am very happy with. I get sweetness, clarity, body and I also use less beans as my extractions are more complete as the water is more effective.

Probably not much help to anyone, sorry.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> What would you recommend for espresso?


Waitrose Essential is potentially "better" as it has a 2:1 ratio of hardness to alkalinity. For espresso with medium/light beans you might want to head more towards 1.75:1 though and nothing out of the bottle has this.

A Volvic/Waitrose Blend at 250ml/750ml would give you

Hardness 64mg/L CaCO3

Alkalinity 39mg/L CaCO3

I realise that Waitrose isn't available everywhere though so it might be a non-starter









If you're ever down this way then I'm happy to make up some batches for people to take away and try, if you like it then it's not a massive investment in time or money to make your own water.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'll be running off bottles intermittently for a while so will go for Waitrose, ta.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

And for brewed while you're here please?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> And for brewed while you're here please?


Waitrose. You may have to adjust the quantity of coffee you use per ml of brew water with it though. As it extracts more veraciously than Volvic (or probably your tap water) it is much easier to over extract. I'm using starting with 52-55g per L of coffee with the EK43 and decent water.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Roastery water is freely available , £5 per 5 litres*. mwahahaaaaaaaaa

* I recon adding 200g roastery water to 800g waitrose would create a litre of very very good brewing water.


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