# Silvia Rancilio Warranty Question - Urgent Help Please



## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

Hi,

Last March after much research (and help on here) I bought a Rancilio Silvia & Rocky Grinder from a recommended UK Supplier. A week or so ago it suddenly stopped heating the water. I contacted the supplier who suggested I reset the thermostat and if that didn't work to send it back. The reset didn't work so I shipped it back inside the 12 month warranty. I've had an email back today saying that its the boiler that's gone and so there will be a £98 charge for replacement!

Having spent so much money on a machine I expect it to last more than 10 months and in the event of failure I don't expect to have to pay £98 plus shipping to get it fixed.

Surely there is nothing (other than mis-use) that isn't covered under warranty within the 1st 12 months? I'm really disappointed and worried (I saved for a long time for the machine and can't find £98 just like that to get it fixed).

Any help/ advise gratefully received (as the supplier wants me to get back to them)









Thanks


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## E61 (Apr 1, 2010)

Which supplier Samstan?


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

Not sure its fair to name at this stage. Lets just say it isn't the one that looks like a Uk country but is based in Europe and people have had problems with - thanks to these boards I knew not to use them


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Please name and shame if you are unhappy with the end result. I think the Silvia boiler is a pretty common thing to go wrong and it's usually through mis-use (i.e no water in the boiler when it's on). They probably assume this was your fault. Although I'm not sure how they would tell either way. It should be covered but you need to check the small print on the original invoice.


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

I know the boiler has never run dry, or even come close to it as I top the tank up every time I use it! I've sent the supplier an email asking what the lifespan of the boiler should be under normal domestic use as 10 months on such an expensive machine is not acceptable. I've also been doing some reading on the Sales of Goods Act and if necessary I'll get Trading Standards involved. I did have a look at the warranty and can't see anywhere that is excludes parts within the first 12 months. I've asked them to honour the warranty and carry out the repair. If they won't do that I'll be name and shaming on every Forum I use (specialist coffee and other's alike)!!! I'm really cross that such an expensive machine has gone wrong so quickly TBH and the supplier's response just compunds it.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I bet I can guess the company in question, but will await the denouement.


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

Having just done a search for the Co. in question it looks like I'm not the only one with an issue







And their (his?) CS looks like it went to rats a few months after I bought from them so despite my research it looks like I might get screwed


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Samstan, this is not good. I also have a Rancilio and I think I know who you are talking about. If you search the name of the website on this forum you will find some threads about them (if I am correct in my assumption, that is). Warranty is what it is, a warranty and the company should honour that warranty.

Keep us all posted.


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## barrykensett (Dec 15, 2009)

Sounds like the supplier I got a machine from and when it went wrong after a few days they didn't want to know, just said I must have let the boiler run dry which I certainly didn't. I got my money back from the Bank as I bought on credit card.

Barry


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

This is certainly worrying for us Silvia owners. I thought they lasted forever (well a long time anyway)


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I don't think it's fair to 'name and shame' without first understanding the cleaning and descaling routine

Has the machine been descaled regularly?

What water was being used and how frequently was maintenance carried out

Would we name and shame Ford when a person runs out of petrol in their car or does not put oil in it? No

I am not suggesting the OP has done anything wrong but lets get all the facts before jumping to supplier conclusions


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

It's 10 months old and has been descaled once as I'm in a soft water area. That's the same as my kettle has been descaled. The machine is well cleaned weekly. My Baby Gaggia was still going strong after 3 years when I decided to upgrade and that had virtually nothing in the way of maintenance done to it other than the showerhead cleaned occasionally as I didn't know any better. I would not expect such an expensive machine to breakdown within 10 months even if nothing had been done to it. Using your analogy its like buying a Ford that arrives from the garage fully working including with oil in it and the engine blowing up under normal use before its first service. As I say, the machine has never 'run out of petrol'.

TBH Glenn, given I haven't named the Co. in question yet, your post shows me I have no chance of getting the supplier to honour the warranty, when you yourself are suggesting reasons it could have broken under warranty that are really not relevant (as I said previously the boiler has never run dry and this would be the only reason that it could be acceptable for failure in such a short period of time).


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Samstan: I wouldn't give up hope of getting a warranty repair just yet. This is a piece of domestic equipment and the seller has a liability to ensure that it is of merchantable quality. And anyone would expect a boiler to last longer than 10 months. It is down to the retailer to be able to demonstrate that the breakdown is due to consumer abuse, otherwise he will have to repair/replace/refund.

In your position I'd start by asking him how he has been able to diagnose that the boiler breakdown is due to any action that you've taken, and where you take it from there depends on the answer that you get. I'm afraid that you may eventually have to go the Small Claims Court route on this, but it's easy and not at all daunting.

You could try contacting the Trading Standards in the area where the supplier is located - and ask if they have any previous history of his activities. TSOs generally quite like getting involved with internet traders in their home areas as it gets them a higher profile than just within their own city boundaries.

If you are adamant that you have done nothing wrong, but the supplier disputes this, I would personally ask him to return the machine. Tell him that you hold him personally liable for the full cost of repair and that you will obtain an independent assessment of the fault, but if this shows there is no consumer fault involved you will hold him liable for the additional cost, as well as the cost of the repair, and that you are prepared to take enforcement action if necessary.


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## barrykensett (Dec 15, 2009)

Sorry didn't mean to frighten a brother Silvia owner, I was commenting on the supplier. It was not a Silvia that I had trouble with. Following my debacle I got a Silvia three months ago and like you I hope for a long and happy life.

Barry


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## Peelie72 (Jan 10, 2011)

how easy it is to blame the consumer.

cigarman sounds like he knows his stuff. I would follow his instruction to the letter.

if the supplier fails to stand up to his responsibilty, do name and shame. there will be many on these forums, like myself, who are soon to splash out on an upgrade.

good luck.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes I think vintage has a pretty good grasp of legal issues... he should do considering his vocation


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

Thank you all (especially vintage). He's saying there's signs of burning on the boiler element and I must have let it run dry. I know with 99.9999% certainty that I haven't! I'm over a barrel as I don't have the money up front to be sending it off to someone else (shipping has already cost me £20+). So another £20+ plus repair costs plus time off work to give the item to the courier and to be in when its delievered back (or miles of driving to pick it up - the joys of living in the middle of nowhere!!!).

Trading Standards won't tell me anything and just put me through to Consumer Direct. Consumer Direct say i'd need to get an independent survey done (more money) and then take Small Claims Action (more time & money).

Whilst not on the breadline I don't have the income to keep throwing away £20's here and there on shipping and coughing up multiple £££'s for repairs or assessments so despite me knowing I've done nothing wrong it looks like I'll have to pay for the repair.

More frustrating still is as its his word against mine I can't name and shame here which I would love to do as the guy's customer service stinks and I don't like being called a liar! I won't name the Co. but I will say it isn't coffeeitalia.co.uk who avoided after research, its another supplier of Rancilio. I hope that is enough for potential customers to identify them and to do a search on them here and then make their own minds up!


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Seems to an extent that you're a bit between a rock and a hard place. I really do sympathise with you. The cost of a Silvia represents a significant sum of money for anyone, and you would at the very least be expecting maintenance-cost-free use for a long period - I know I would.

Without naming names, if this is a supplier that has had critical mention elsewhere on this site, then I would expect a more sympathetic hearing from Trading Standards. Whilst I can appreciate that they might be reluctant to give you any details of possible earlier complaints, I would suggest that you give them another call and ask to speak to the Head of Service in TS - don't be fobbed off - offer to call back at an appointed time if necessary. If they refuse to let you speak to the senior man in TS ask for the name of the elected council portfolio holder for TS and his contact details as you will be making a complaint about TS's service. When you do get to speak to the HofS (and you will!), then tell him that there is obviously a rogue trader in his area - point to the associated threads on this forum and elsewhere detailing others' experience, and put him on the spot to get involved as TS's inactivity in the problem is showing up the quality of customer care in the local authority he works for.

In the meantime, why not try telling the supplier that you dispute his assessment of the problem and ask if he can send you a photo of the alleged damage?

I understand your reluctance to spend any more on this at the moment - hope that these no-cost options give you some further hope of resolution.

Have you tried an approach to your Credit Card company to see what line they are prepared to take over it?

At the end of the day, sad though it seems, the cheapest course in the short term might be just to pay up. Perhaps some of the techies on thew forum could give an opinion of whether the charge is reasonable or not?

Perhaps I should add that I would only be taking the actions that I Have proposed if I was certain that I was not at fault. If I had the slightest doubt that I was culpable I would be much less inclined to argue through the TS route.


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

Thank you again for the detailed response. I did actually try pretty much what you've suggested with TS and got nowhere. For various personal reasons that I won't go into here my free time is seriously limited and life is pretty stressful at the moment anyway. If the boiler has signs of damage I have no way of proving that it wasn't there when I received the machine. I know with absolute certainty that I have not run the boiler dry. However, I can not prove that so I see no option but to pay up. I have asked the supplier to return the damaged part as well. He was supposed to be getting back to me once he'd spoken to his engineer as to the effort expended and tell me the cost (£125 plus shipping is the 'worst case' apparently). I feel like I'm being fobbed off now I've asked for the part so now I'm sweating that he has my machine and its going to be a fight to get it back!

I know it looks like I've asked for advise, received some very helpful, useful advise and am now just ignoring it but I just don't have the time, energy or will for a big fight. I was hoping that the supplier didn't have a leg to stand on but as its his word against mine I can't do that despite knowing I'm telling the truth. I just want a nice cup of coffee from my nice shiny working Silvia


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

No need to apologise for appearing to ignore the advice - trying to help other members is part of the fellowship of this forum, and I hope that at least the suggestions have been constructive. I really feel for your predicament. Let's just hope that you don't have chew getting the repair done and the machine back in your hands again.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Well, my Silvia had exactly the same issue last year, it was an "ex demo" machine and I ended up biting the bullet and paying for the repair as I concluded that I would have great difficulty proving beyond reasonable doubt that I was not responsible ( I know I was not ), but knowing and proving being two different things I just paid up to get Silvia back. It was a lot less than ten months in my case.

My rationale was that no machine equated to buying more coffees when out and about plus unknown costs of pursuing the matter so suck up the pain, move on and don`t buy there again.


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## Samstan (Dec 21, 2009)

Yep, that's about the size of it Don


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## sandykt (Dec 3, 2009)

Samstan, I do sympathise with you, sometimes these things take up negative energy that it's best just to see it as a learning curve. I can honestly say I am pleased with my Silvia but I know I will not be purchasing from the same supplier again.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Since this thread started I've come across a few reported instances elsewhere on the net where there have been Silvia boiler/thermostat problems from admitted user error. (I'm not suggesting that this is the case for Samstan). It does seem that it would be relatively easy for a new owner to have this sort of problem. I've actually downloaded the Silvia instruction manual, and although it gives very clear and comprehensive details on how to operate the machine, it does seem a bit light on warning of the consequences of not following the correct procedure - ie the chance of ruining your machine. I know that some US retailers now include an additional sheet with the machines , explaining the need to ensure correct procedures are followed, including the correct method of filling the boiler from new.

Given this issue, I wonder if there's any mileage to be had in putting a sticky post on the forum on the need for new/potential users to make sure that they follow the procedures, and the consequences of failing to do so. I'm not suggesting that we run the risk of giving any advice that may prove wrong - merely directing readers to make sure that they understand the importance of fully complying with the standard operating instructions.

I'm not wanting to usurp retailer responsibility here, but from experience it is obvious that a lot of people who are new to quality espresso machines are coming on to this forum, and a sticky of this nature might just prove invaluable to them.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

If the Silvia is so prone to breakage maybe the sticky should also advise you not to actually buy one and if you do buy one expect it to break down and expect no back up from the retailer???


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## BanishInstant (Oct 12, 2009)

vintagecigarman said:


> Given this issue, I wonder if there's any mileage to be had in putting a sticky post on the forum on the need for new/potential users to make sure that they follow the procedures, and the consequences of failing to do so. I'm not suggesting that we run the risk of giving any advice that may prove wrong - merely directing readers to make sure that they understand the importance of fully complying with the standard operating instructions.


Good idea vintage


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