# Struggling with milk



## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

Hi All,

New to the the forum and coffee in general.

I have bought a barista express, and am really enjoying getting to grips with it. I think I'm nearly there with the coffee.

The problem I'm having is that I can't seem to get consistent results with texturing milk. Sometimes I think I'm getting it, then lose the nack again.

Does anyone one know of anybody near North Devon who I could go to for some tips? Or anything I can try to get it right?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

This as been put up before link, this really helped me. I use 35cl jug Motta one


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Here's another one that I found really useful


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

Thanks guys. Ive been watching videos, but still don't feel like I'm doing it right.

I either have too much foam, or if I try to get less air in to start with I end up with none.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

It's a fine balance that takes a lot of practice to get right. I've been trying to perfect it for years and don't always get consistent foam. I find it quite tricky on my friend's BE because of the weird way the steam knob works, plus the very short wand that's not easy to angle how you want it. If I had one, I would buy a knock drawer to raise the machine up a bit, and make sure I had plenty of space to get myself in the right position seeing as the wand is so inflexible. Not sure if this is a bad workman blaming his tools, but that was my impression when I was trying to show my mate how to steam on his Sage. The low power does give you plenty of time though, and it has been demonstrated on here that the sages can make really good foam with practice.


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## foundrycoffeeroasters.com (Jun 19, 2014)

the milk itself is also really important - working with supermarket milk is so hard next to good quality milk that we use, which is from a local farm. It's one of those things that's really easy once you got the knack. All machines are a bit different as are steam tips so you'd be better off getting someone who already has the skills to show you on your machine if it's possible. You'll save a lot of time (and milk!).


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

If I could find someone not too far away, I'd happily take my machine to see them.

I did think about trying to find a training day to attend, but I think it would be better to be shown on my machine.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

What machine do you have.


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

It's a sage barista express.


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

I picked up 4 pints of whole milk to practice with over the weekend. I normally use semi but thought it was worth trying whole to get the hang of it.

I've just made myself a latte, and it was pretty close. I think it's better if I have the tip more at the 6 o'clock position (rather than 9), since I get more of a swirl going.

I thought it would be the coffee that would take longer to master, but since I've been weighing dose/output and timing shots they've all been pretty good. I'm enjoying the Rave Signature Blend, and so I can drink more I've also got some decaf which is ok too.

I love the machine, but I think the milk will take some practice. When I get it right I can get something that looks at least a bit like latte art to form.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

So long as it's tasty at least there's no waste! The art only comes with even more practice than steaming - and you can only attempt a pour when the milk came out right. It's been driving me mental for years so don't be too hard on yourself and expect miracles by next week. Saying that, Joey posted a great bit of art earlier today (I think) in the free pour Friday thread, and he's not been at it for all that long (comparatively speaking).


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

I saw that. Pretty impressive.

This is the closest I've got.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Key to attaining milk glory.

Watch some clips.

Buy 12 pints of milk, make drinks. Keep making drinks til you get good.

Practice and lots of it, not just 1-2 drinks a day.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Getting by some help is good advice, but you need someone who knows how to share their knowledge. Not everyone makes a good teacher!

There is a knack to it and when it doesn't go right it is very frustrating. Getting the milk foamed so it pours nicely is half the battle, I would then suggest doing a simple heart and sticking with that for a month.

If you feel like posting a vid of how you are steaming etc maybe we can offer some pointers.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Here's how I do it:











But as mentioned, the practice is gold


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

How I do milk on my DTP is as follows...

Full fat milk in the fridge in the jug filled just up to the spout.

Make espresso then purge steam wand.

Grab milk from fridge while it purges.

Turn steam off. Dip wand in milk up to the joint of the steam tip then turn back on.

"Thunk thunk thunk" aim wand 3 o'clock and get milk moving.

After a few seconds raise wand slightly to draw in the air. Once it starts to feel warm lower tip again up to the joint of the tip.

Get milk swirling in the 3 o'clock position until the jug is too hot to touch.

Turn steam off, remove wand and purge/clean wand.






Hopefully this helps.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Stanic said:


> Here's how I do it:


That thing is a beast!!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

joey24dirt said:


> "Thunk thunk thunk".


#hestons_heartbeat # sage

Good vid Joey.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

hotmetal said:


> #hestons_heartbeat # sage
> 
> Good vid Joey.


Haha yes! I often wondered why it made that noise


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

Great vid Joey. I hadn't thought about getting the milk spinning before trying to get air in. Seems like it may produce less big bubbles.

I'll give it a go today.


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## LukeT (Aug 6, 2017)

I'm a beginner still too but I have found temptags useful in taking the guesswork out of when you've hit the right temperature. (or a jug thermometer which I might try sometime too)


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

LukeT said:


> I'm a beginner still too but I have found temptags useful in taking the guesswork out of when you've hit the right temperature. (or a jug thermometer which I might try sometime too)


Don't bother with a thermometer, they get in the way. Temp tags are great, but more as a way of calibrating your fingers. It's usually a bit tricky to watch a temp tag at the same time as the milk surface. Use a steel jug, and the milk is about right when you have to take your fingers off the bottom because of the heat. Everyone has different pain thresholds but this method seems to work fairly universally, and using a temp tag to confirm means that once you know where 'ouch' is, you can concentrate on the milk without looking.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

It's funny but I like to use my thermometer! I glance at it, along with the milk, and know I am at the right place as the temp rises (or not, then I can correct it)!


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

Right. That was loads better.

I tried doing what Joey did in the video, and got the milk spinning first. What a difference. A bit more practice like that and I'll be happy.

I think I'll try the other suggestion of just sticking with a simple heart until I've got the hang of it.

Joey, I've just been reading another thread and saw you were doing a distribution tool that would fit. Are you still doing them? I'd really like a decent tamper that fits too if you know of anywhere to buy one?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

GeoffTucks said:


> Right. That was loads better.
> 
> I tried doing what Joey did in the video, and got the milk spinning first. What a difference. A bit more practice like that and I'll be happy.
> 
> ...


 @joey24dirt does tampers too


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Yeah I'll be able to sort it out. I'll message you later as Sundays are a bit hectic lol. Cheers


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

Fantastic, thanks Joey. I sent you a pm too before I saw your reply. I'll wait to hear from you.


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## Sheena_Lance (Jan 24, 2018)

In my humble opinion based on my experienced, it varies on the milk and the machine,I have the same problems before,but after i change the brand of milk that im using then get the right temperature been using gauge in order to get it right and took some time to finally do it.


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## GeoffTucks (Jan 20, 2018)

I think I'm getting it.

I've just booked myself of a 2 hour barista course at Exe Coffee Roasters on Wednesday evening. Sounds perfect, and Steve who runs it seems to know his stuff.

I'll report back after, and hope to have some photos of a decent looking latte!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I've been making coffee for years now, I own a prosumer VBM machine and I'm still poo at doing latte art. Most of the time I get a decent enough foam, fail to do latte art of any quality and just drink my coffee and stop worrying about it.

I understand the desire to get good at it tho.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

it takes a lot of practice...in my last short barista job I've gone through 10-15 litres of milk/shift and it helped


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## 8.5-Bar (Jan 27, 2018)

Jony said:


> This as been put up before link, this really helped me. I use 35cl jug Motta one


Just found this post - thanks for the very helpful video which has explained why I am getting too much stiff foam on top of hot milk. I have just moved from a Gaggia Classic with Panarello wand to a Lelit Mara with a proper steam wand and it has been a bit 'hit and miss' so far. Now I feel better informed for the next session.


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