# V60 4-6 method



## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

Has anyone tried the 4-6 method, supposedly used or invented by a recent brew champion (see https://kurasu.kyoto/blogs/kurasu-journal/2016-world-brewers-cup-champion-tetsu-kasuya )

Essentially it seems like you break your brew into 5 equal pours, lasting 45 seconds each. You adjust sweetness/acidity by decreasing pour 1 and making up the volume on pour 2 (or vice versa). You adjust strength by increasing the number of pours at the end of the brew.

I've tried it, but so far have no outstanding results to report. There seems to be a modified version of the V60 available which is suited more towards 4-6, so I'm going to give it a try.


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

I've received my modified V60 from Japan, no customs, reasonably quick. Nice!

I've been playing with the 4-6 method with my normal V60s and was thinking this was probably all a waste of time. Now the modified one has arrived, I am starting to wonder.

I use an HG One to grind, and I scribble settings onto the adjustment wheel in pencil. I've got one scribble for V60, and one scribble for Brazen. The Brazen is quite a lot coarser than the V60 setting.

The modified V60 seems to slow down the throughput quite a lot. I've been trying to get it so that each of the 45-second intervals does not completely drain through, and gradually coarsening the grind until I hit the sweet spot. Well this morning I ended up coarser than the Brazen, which really surprised me.

It might be a one-off, but the flavours absolutely jumped out of the cup. More experimentation is definitely merited.

I will say, though, that I usually use a plastic or metal V60. This new one is porcelain, and it definitely results in a colder cup of coffee.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Generally coarser grind with drip gives less silt and more pours gives a more consistent flow rate, helping consistency. I also have best results especially in V60 with multiple pours. 6 seems to be a good number. Don't really know about the claim about first two pours doing one thing and last 4 pours doing something else. I guess you could try to separate the pours and taste them?


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

I'm now way beyond the coarseness I would use for the Brazen. I'm a full 360 degrees coarser on the HG One adjustment from where I would be for espresso. Really enjoying this experiment.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I also noticed when doing 6 pours with water draining fully/almost fully between every pour the coffee extracts very easily, without any manual intervention.

I also have to grind very coarse, way coarser than what I use for other methods. This is with a normal plastic V60.

Today's brew:

EK 43 S #13 (out of 16) -> (6% 1200 using Kruve)

18.5g coffee, 285g water (5x50g+35g)

ended up at 1.60% TDS, 21% EY , rather above my target and the brew was too strong for my taste so I had to dilute it with some water.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

I've been using the 4:6 method for around a month now, I really like it. I generally target having the drain finish a few seconds (5-8) before the 45 second interval, I've found for my tastes it's a good method for making fruity/citrus notes pop.

December was mostly...

Normal (glass, not modified version) V60

Kainamui Kenya, 20g

Grind #27 on my Baratza Encore (course, Chemex territory)

300g @ 92-93c


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## obean (Jan 6, 2019)

I have been using this method recently and enjoy the results. Grinding the beans a little finer, 5-6 clicks on a Skerton, Standard plastic V60.


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## bpchia (Dec 23, 2014)

the_partisan said:


> I also noticed when doing 6 pours with water draining fully/almost fully between every pour the coffee extracts very easily, without any manual intervention.
> 
> I also have to grind very coarse, way coarser than what I use for other methods. This is with a normal plastic V60.
> 
> ...


Do you find that the EY you want is less than 21% because of the effects of the Kruve? Because I usually enjoy around 22% +/- 1% for most coffees without Kruve. I've changed from a well aligned EK43 to an OE Apex.

I assume you like less than 21% because otherwise you would use a higher water:coffee ratio right?

What kind of "manual intervention" are you talking about? Stirring, swirling, spinning?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

bpchia said:


> Do you find that the EY you want is less than 21% because of the effects of the Kruve? Because I usually enjoy around 22% +/- 1% for most coffees without Kruve. I've changed from a well aligned EK43 to an OE Apex.
> 
> I assume you like less than 21% because otherwise you would use a higher water:coffee ratio right?
> 
> What kind of "manual intervention" are you talking about? Stirring, swirling, spinning?


Yes no stirring, swirling or spinning seems to be needed if you're doing 6 pours each about 30sec apart.

I mentioned Kruve just as a guideline for describing my grind size, I never sift any of my brews. Ratio wise usually 1:16-1:17 is where I am at, but some cafes around here tend to use more like 1:15 also with good results.


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## chipbutty (Sep 16, 2011)

I've always had a love/hate relationship with the V60 and relegated it to the back of the cupboard. This 4-6 method has got me using it daily. Every brew is spot on. I use the excellent coffee.cup.guru to guide me through the process (easy to create one for the 4-6 method).

I must say I'm intrigued by the Kasuya specific version of the V60.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Saw this on YouTube the other day and will give it a go.. I'm wondering if putting an AeroPress filter (twisted into a cone) in the bottom as well as the V60 filter will make a difference? Slowing the pour down a bit and maybe grinding a bit courser?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If you want to grind coarser, add the water in smaller pulses. You want the coffee itself to be the resistance to the water.

After a point, you can go too coarse flavour drops off (woody), even when you get a decent extraction.


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## edpirie (Jun 29, 2012)

Another thumbs up for the 4:6 method. I had some beans where I was struggling to bring out the fruity notes (described as blood orange marmalade), but this approach got me distinct flavours of blood orange, not sure about the marmalade bit. Given I don't have the most sensitive palate that was pretty notable to me, and moving on to a Kenyan bean - Kibangara from Origin Coffee - I've been getting clear and clean blackberry and grapefruit notes.

That had me thinking about the Kasuya model V60, but given the recipe was designed for a normal V60 and results have been so good (I've been using a stock ceramic 01), I'm doubtful whether there's much benefit. Plus I have too many drippers already.


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

Hmm prompted by some of the successes here, I've gone back to the black V60 with the modified flow, and am grinding far, far coarser than I ever do for anything. On my HGOne, I am grinding a full 360 degrees coarser than I would normally for V60. It's now working very well. I'll be experimenting more over the weekend.


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

I tried to reproduce my grind settings from the HGOne on the Feldgrind just because I don't always want to leave the HGOne set like that, and I figure I can use the Feldgrind just for 4-6. Anyway, my first attempt got me to 3.6 on the Feldgrind (3 full turns from zero, then setting 6). I might tighten up just a little bit, but a very drinkable coffee was had. This with the Kasuya V60.


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## edpirie (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm on 3.4 on one Feldgrind and 2.10 on the other, for some reason they're always 0.6 apart for the same output. That's with a normal ceramic V60 01 aiming for it to be visibly drained at the 3:30 cut-off, just some drips still coming through.


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

edpirie said:


> I'm on 3.4 on one Feldgrind and 2.10 on the other, for some reason they're always 0.6 apart for the same output. That's with a normal ceramic V60 01 aiming for it to be visibly drained at the 3:30 cut-off, just some drips still coming through.


Interesting, thanks for the pointer, we're not that far apart. Perhaps I should go even coarser as there's no way my Kasuya has drained by 3:30. I'm so far past what I would consider a normal grind that I'll believe anything is possible at this point.

Somewhat over caffeinated now so this might have to wait until tomorrow


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

OK so I can't get the Kasuya to drain by 3:30 and still be tasty, so I went back to my regular V60 plastic, and discovered that the 3.6 grind on the Feldgrind drains way, way too quickly on the regular V60. My current settings are therefore:

Kasuya V60 - 3.6 on the Feldgrind - takes until about 4:30 to drain

Plastic V60 - 2.2 on the Feldgrind - easily drains by 3:30

The taste is similar, but at the moment I'd give the nod to the Kasuya. However, I get much less volume, obviously. Therefore I am going to try going finer on the plastic V60.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

wintoid said:


> OK so I can't get the Kasuya to drain by 3:30 and still be tasty, so I went back to my regular V60 plastic, and discovered that the 3.6 grind on the Feldgrind drains way, way too quickly on the regular V60. My current settings are therefore:
> 
> Kasuya V60 - 3.6 on the Feldgrind - takes until about 4:30 to drain
> 
> ...


Sorry, why would you get different volumes?


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

MWJB said:


> Sorry, why would you get different volumes?


Because I'm taking it off at 3:30 when it takes much longer to drain completely. Maybe that's not the right thing to do, but so far that's how I've done it.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

wintoid said:


> Because I'm taking it off at 3:30 when it takes much longer to drain completely. Maybe that's not the right thing to do, but so far that's how I've done it.


That's going to lead to very inconsistent extractions, best to let the brewer drip for 30-40s after you see dry bed. Adjust grind if a given setting tastes consistently bad.


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

MWJB said:


> That's going to lead to very inconsistent extractions, best to let the brewer drip for 30-40s after you see dry bed. Adjust grind if a given setting tastes consistently bad.


So basically always let the whole thing drain through?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yes.

Let's say you are brewing at 20:300g. If all drains out you might have ~260g in the cup/server. If you pull the brewer with 20g of liquid still in it, you're extraction will be nearly 2% less...that's a big difference, easily noticeable & difficult to make any comparisons or judgements with 1 bean. I wouldn't expect brews to swing that wide when using the same grind setting & method with a big range of different beans, let alone 1 bean.

You could use a 2nd set of scales under the cup, to ensure you always end the brew at the same output, but why waste that coffee when adjusting the grind & waiting a few 10's of seconds will do the job?

Grind setting & output in the cup drive extraction to a much greater degree than time & time can vary from grinder to grinder, will usually be +/-12s for the same grinder, grind setting & recipe for 2/3 brews. Killing at a specific time to the second doesn't help anything.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Off to trying this now...


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Hasi said:


> Off to trying this now...


Wow, what an improvement!!

Just poured this here Panamanian no-geisha-only-typica at 13.5-in 200-out in 5:10.

What I did was

0:00 - 30g

0:45 - 50g

1:30 - 5:10 4x 30g

Okay, it needs adjustment. Almost stalled towards the end...

But one thing is for certain: by balancing the 40 against more sweetness and the 60 against what inventor Tetsu calls a stronger coffee I've upped my V60 game by roughly 374.8%

When hot, I get much clearer wild strawberries at first, transforming into a pronounced praline/nougat aftertaste. So smooth, so sweet, better balanced - no outliers anywhere.

When cooling, dark chocolate comes through a bit rough - more and more. This is where shorter extraction will help keep it balanced I guess. So coarser grind next time.

But happy with the discovery!

Thanks guys


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## Little_tipple (Apr 2, 2019)

Love seeing these newer variations on V60Â's - definitely gonna have a look at the Kasuya Variation - I think I was accidentally doing something similar when I first started pourovers (helped by having a crap kettle with a big spout) and I didnÂ't understand the slow pour - might have to try it again, now I get how to do it properly!


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## mayorcesar (Mar 10, 2019)

I currently have the regular V60 and doing the 4-6 method works just fine for me. How much of a difference does having the Kasuya dripper make?


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

mayorcesar said:


> I currently have the regular V60 and doing the 4-6 method works just fine for me. How much of a difference does having the Kasuya dripper make?


Less money in your pocket


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Hasi said:


> Less money in your pocket


Agreed. Have used side by side against glass and plastic and there's really very little difference. Certainly nothing that can't be achieved by tweaking one of the other variables or would be invisible to most with normal variation in pour rate etc.

Though I believe it is still the only way you can get a black ceramic V60...and it's a fine looking thing!


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## Breezy (Dec 16, 2014)

also tried this method and it really brings out the fruity and sweet notes whilst minimising acidity too I've found this great calculator too!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K9EMN-2PVELXMsLz6G2JX_B9eqTdYBT0FsYSLpixpF0/edit?usp=sharing

what grind setting are people using on the feld2 I'm currently at about 2-10


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Breezy said:


> also tried this method and it really brings out the fruity and sweet notes whilst minimising acidity too I've found this great calcula﻿tor too!
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K9EMN-2PVELXMsLz6G2JX_B9eqTdYBT0FsYSLpixpF0/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> what grind setting are people using on the feld2 I'm currently at about 2-10


 Nice, though that fixes brew ratio at 15:1. I've only found this method works better up to 16:1, but that may be a personal preference.


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## edpirie (Jun 29, 2012)

I have two FG2s and they're 0.6 apart, I have one at 2.4 and one at 2.10 and that works well for this method. I don't pull it at 30s after the last pour but let it drip through which is usually around 45s.

As for brew ratio I always use 15:1 with this method and it doesn't taste too strong to me.


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## Breezy (Dec 16, 2014)

yep I usually use 16:1 I wonder if I can adjust the spreadsheet formula somehow!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@Breezy why not keep water/pours the same & use 20.3g of coffee for 1:16?


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## Breezy (Dec 16, 2014)

managed to edit the spreadsheet to allow additional ratios to be selected:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wh-Wc9PhPvCzzZg4FzuOjhfvWwsIQcDGXHBrBalusN0/edit?usp=sharing


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## Breezy (Dec 16, 2014)

MWJB said:


> @Breezy why not keep water/pours the same & use 20.3g of coffee for 1:16?


 I usually brew 225 for just one cup so 14g and 450ml for 2 cups


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

OK, well use the water suggested for 450 & adjust the coffee weight. It's such a small change in dose that it will only impact on strength, it won't significantly change extraction if you keep everything else the same. If you get this sorted, then you'll need to up the number of pulses for the 225g brew, or make a large change in grind size...the same pour regime won't work for both at the same grind size.

Honestly, I'd get another brewer & perfect the 225 brew & make 2 of them (saves chopping & changing grind size & pour weights).


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