# Barista Pro - shot Volume not exceed 50ml



## Matt Cornish (May 25, 2021)

Hi Guys

I'm new on here, so please go easy 🙂

I have been using a SAGE Barista Pro now for about 3 weeks.

Overall I'm very happy with the Espresso this machine produces.

Learning to produce Espresso from scratch is, as I'm sure we can all agree, a steep learning curve with many mistakes along the way.

I have watched countess YouTube videos to help cement my learning, and I'm comfortable with the knowledge I know have to produce some great tasting shots.

But I am encountering one consistent problem - when attempting to produce a 60ml Double Shot, and keeping all variables the same for a particular Coffee, of Grind/Dose/Yield - I can only ever get to a Volume of 45ml on a 1:2 Ratio.

To get to near 52ml in a 60ml glass, I have to let the ratio go up to between 2.25 and 2.5.

I use manual programming mode for the Double Shot every time so I can control the Ratio (also allowing for drip time once the shot pour has been stopped)

Although I must clearly state - once the shot has poured, even though the Volume does not reach 60ml, the Timings & Shot appearance seem almost 'Textbook' like.

For example, a shot pulled this morning which is looks & tasted great, had a pre infusion time off 11 seconds, and a pour time of 32 seconds.

The internal burr was set at 1, with external grind set at 6. The dose was 19g, and the yield was 45g.

I also use a dosing cup with scales, so I know the dose is correct/ consistent.

But the shot Volume did not exceed 50ml.

The machine has been like this from day one. I have used a variety off Coffees from freshly roasted (within 48 hours) to Morrisons own brand Beans (Brazilian) and get the same issue with every shot.

Is there something really obvious I have missed?

Any help much appreciated

Regards

Matt


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi Matt & welcome to the forum.

If you're enjoying the taste of the coffee at 1:2, even though it's not reaching 50ml, is that really a problem?

You're brewing by ratio, based on weight, this is far more repeatable than trying to use volume & has more relevance to extraction (volume is affected by CO2/crema content, which varies for the same weight of shot).

Best, Mark.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Well for 60ml out with a ratio of 2 the filter basket would need to hold 30g of grinds which is way more than it can hold.

Grinder numbers can't be compared between machines. Sounds like you have adjusted the outer burr but personally I would only do that if I made sure that the burrs were not rubbing at the minimum setting after it had been adjusted.

The ratio to use is purely a matter of it's effect on taste. The volume / weight out is set by that.


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## Matt Cornish (May 25, 2021)

Hi guys

Thanks for the responses. All make sense.

The inference i got from pretty much all the YouTube videos/ tutorials seems to be (while not explicitly stated)- if it's not 60ml then it's down to poor grinding choices/ brewing methods, and that it has to be 60ml dead on if its a double shot....

I was operating under the impression that it has to be 60ml ( again - I'm a newbie here - don't be too harsh in your judgement!) and if not, it can't possibly taste good or be well brewed.

Evidently from your comments - this is not correct and/ or, is not achievable with a 19g input at 1:2 ration anyhow.

Appreciate the feedback. Very helpful.

Many thanks.

Matt


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## dutchy101 (Jun 12, 2020)

A 1:2 ratio on 19g of beans is 38g of liquid in the cup. 60g in the cup is over a 1:3 ratio (with a dose of 19g of beans). I wouldn't worry about what others advise when it comes to correct ratios - find what works for you and you like, that's all that matters.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dutchy101 said:


> A 1:2 ratio on 19g of beans is 38g of liquid in the cup. 60g in the cup is over a 1:3 ratio (with a dose of 19g of beans)


 Even so, there is nothing wrong with a 1:3 ratio if the coffee tastes good & is strong enough for your needs. Basically, being restricted to any specific ratio can be limiting.

If a shot is sour try grinding finer and/or pulling a slightly longer ratio.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Matt Cornish said:


> The inference i got from pretty much all the YouTube videos/ tutorials seems to be (while not explicitly stated)- if it's not 60ml then it's down to poor grinding choices/ brewing methods, and that it has to be 60ml dead on if its a double shot....


 The web and coffee is a mix of some maybe good advice and some from an asylum. Good is rare really especially when it comes to over and under extraction.

There are things that can be done as @MWJB has just suggested that can have specific result but they are effectively changing the ratio. It's best to try a range and taste and see which suits you - the person who is drinking it and also the bean you are using. Even the machine used can have an effect. I usually find that trying a ratios in the range of 2 to 3 can usually work out but for instance a new one I am brewing at the moment is best under 2. In fact 1.5 sweetens it but I prefer it a bit higher. Other beans may need higher than 3.

 If you want 60ml as some raw espresso drinkers like to have you can always brew twice, 30 at a time. Sometimes to appreciate raw espresso tastes they need watering down.

Shot time is another variable. Trying to look at all variables in one go is tricky so I for instance tend to stick with 30sec - from when the pump runs. The machine I use has preinfusion so that is included in the time. Water is flowing and coffee is being extracted.


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## 24774 (Mar 8, 2020)

Matt Cornish said:


> I was operating under the impression that it has to be 60ml ( again - I'm a newbie here - don't be too harsh in your judgement!) and if not, it can't possibly taste good or be well brewed.
> 
> Evidently from your comments - this is not correct and/ or, is not achievable with a 19g input at 1:2 ration anyhow.


 I echo what dutchy101 and MWJB have said. I have a Sage and find nearer a 1:3 ratio tastes better. I would suggest playing about it, some coffee like nearer 1:2, others a longer extraction. I don't let anything run to 60ml as a I find that a bit overextracted but as ajohn says machines/set ups themselves vary.

I wouldn't worry about trying to hit a specific number, go with a ball park and go by taste.


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