# New Dual Boiler owner - some questions/confusions!



## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

Hello all! I've just upgraded my Barista Express with a DB and a Eureka Mignon Specialita. Sorry for the number of questions - I've managed to find answers for MOST of the things I was after, but not these!

The DB was used, and had just been serviced by Coffee Classics (list below) - is there anything else beyond this I should be checking/replacing for myself? For reference I'm using Lockhill water in it, but I don't know what the previous owner was using or whether CC did a descale as part of their service (and whether I should attempt one myself!):



New Pump


Workshop time to repair leaking pressure


Solenoid Valve assembly (BES920/03.12 - SP0020045)


Coffee Probe with O Ring (bes920/03.9 - SP0020054)


Orange Sage O'Ring BES980/06.39 (6 of these)


Blue O'Ring BES980/08.11 (3 of these)




I'm not sure if it's the original Sage one, but the double filter basket (unpressurised) falls out after even a very light tap when I'm removing the puck. In my BE, it was a very tight fit, so wondering if it's not a Sage basket? The spring clip inside looks to be ok as far as I can tell.




The portafilter spouts are not perpendicular to the handle. So when the portafilter is firmly locked in place (handle at ~5 o'clock), the spouts are pretty oddly angled (hopefully the photo shows this). Is that normal?!


Any suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated - it looks like a seriously good upgrade from the BE, and any limitations will definitely be from me, not the machine!

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The spring weakens with use so that sort of problem will crop up eventually. Sage did offer replacements but haven't looked for a while. I use ridged baskets with mine so if I use a Sage basket they fly out now. Replacement springs for 58mm portafilters are available from Amazon I think and other places. Or get it out and see if you can add more tension. Maybe the straight sections are too bowed.

The portafilter handle should be at 90 degrees to the machine. New seals and also when the machine hasn't been used for some time do seem to be rather stiff. I believe there is another source of a seal - cafelat or something like that but don't know if they are the same. A bit of use should make getting to 90 degrees pretty easy so if I was you I would only use it at 90 degrees even if it needs some force.

O rings correct but unusual to fit blue ones as people haven't been able to get them. I think they are now included in a seal kit from Australia. If CC did it then they will all be the correct parts - even the pump.

You can get an idea of it's descale state by trying to get steam as soon as brew gets to 93C. If it beeps as not ready for steam I would wonder if a descale was a good idea but try it from dead cold and from still having some heat in the boilers - say after it's stood for an hour. The beep should go and steam come out very soon after the brew reaches 93C. I've found it more or less always is available immediately now I am sure all scale has been removed. You need a Sage test strip to set up the descale notification. I'd be inclined to set it for harder than your water actually is. I have been running mine with more scale in it than a descale can remove - it was a refurb. Too long like that to comment on how good Sage's indication is.

The rest of you links take me to opening a google accounts so no idea what they show.


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## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

Thanks, ajohn, much appreciated! Realised those links you refer to were photos I clearly didn't attach properly, have tried again here. Hopefully that explains what I meant re the PF lugs better than my words.

Tried the descale trick as you suggested - the machine had been off for about an hour, handily. Restarted (temperature was still in the low 50s). As soon as it hit 92c I turned the steam on, came out straight away. So hopefully a good sign.

Re the portafilter - my BE had a piece of black plastic that sat between the PF and the basket. This PF doesn't, but I'm not sure whether the DB normally comes with that or not. I'm also putting 18.5g in the basket, and the level after tamping is probably as low as it should go, so I suspect it might be a larger aftermarket basket.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

It probably needs a tweak with a spanner etc. There is no O ring visible on mine. It doesn't leak but use a bottomless all of the time and have done for most of the time I have owned the machine.


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## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

Great to know, thanks again ajohn. I look forward to improving my skills!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I don't think there is much chance of blaming these machines for anything really  only the user.

People have problems with pucks sticking to the shower screen. I recently tried using a different basket size for other reasons and seem to have found that lower fill heights never stick also that a fill height over 10mm under the basket rim is still fine.

Playing with infusion pump power has messed my grinds prep standards up a bit and not helped by changing to a different tamper but it's slowly getting back to how it was.


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## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

haha, I hate it when I have no-one to blame but myself 🙂 And stupid question, but how do I actually "turn" the spouts of the portafilter? The attachment is entirely round, so I can't get an adjustable spanner to fix onto it properly. Not a big problem mind you.

I'm also struggling to dial in some beans - I only want to change 1 variable at the time, but not sure which one to tackle. So if anyone has any suggestions I could follow, that would be much appreciated!

Beans: First Light from Crown & Canvas, roasted 11th April

Grinder: Eureka Mignon Specialita

Dose: 18.5g (I don't really want to dose higher, if I can avoid it. For my personal tastes that's already a lot of coffee and I don't want to get into triple shot territory!)

Yield: 47g

Result: sour

Total shot time: 35s. Pre-Infusion set fixed to 12s. First drop comes out after about 9s. Pressure ramps up to ~11bar, settles between 10 and 10.5.

So I could grind finer to get a lower yield in the same time. This would presumably increase pressure even more. Is that a problem? Should I actually be aiming for 9 bar or is that an irrelevant thing to focus on?

Side note: I don't currently have a bottomless portafilter. I had one on my Barista Express, and the results from that suggested my tamping technique was pretty consistent. So for now I'm going to ignore that as a variable!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

There is usually a hole through the PF where the two spouts leave the main body, can you poke a s/driver through and use it tp rotate the spout ?


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## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

El carajillo said:


> There is usually a hole through the PF where the two spouts leave the main body, can you poke a s/driver through and use it tp rotate the spout ?


 Thanks, El carajillo. Unfortunately there's now way to really exert force in the hole to rotate it. But no matter, not a big deal and I can certainly live with it!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I'd try undoing the spout and removing the O ring as it shouldn't be there. Layers of paper, tea towel etc on the spout and a spanner on that. If it leaks ptfe tape. It's all stainless so is fairly strong but use some sense.

You will find you need to make rather small adjustments to your grinder to get a ratio right and you will also probably have variations due to handling the grinds when they are in the portafilter. A photo of what they look like straight out of the grinder and into the portafilter may allow me to make some suggestions about that.


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## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

Will try your suggestion re the PF and see if it comes loose!

As for the photos, I've attached 3. The 1st (with the PF handle at 45 degrees) after the grounds have gone straight into the PF from the grinder (left as is, nothing done to them). The 2nd after distributing with a toothpick. The 3rd after tamping. I'm using a solid 58mm tamper (not the stock Sage one), but there's quite a lot of space so suspect I may need a 58.4mm I've seen people recommending. Not sure whether that causes any issues or not.

I adjusted the grind a little too far (despite your warning!) - 18.4g in and 32.7g out. A bit sour again, but probably under-extracted this time? I kept the shot time constant at 35s (with the fixed 12s pre-infusion) to ensure I only change one variable at a time.

On a side note - is there anyway of automatically increasing the shot time without having to run water through it for 35s (or whatever time you want to get to)? Seems like a bit of a waste of bottled water!!

And MASSIVE thanks for all the time you're taking here.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Looks fine apart from some clumping. One of the main things is that the grinds are pretty level before tamping otherwise high parts get compressed more than low. If you've read about light tamping I'd suggest you forget it. I'd also tap the portafilter down to sink the grinds a bit, twice fairly firmly before you tamp. If they go out of level you need to worry about your stirring.

Before I bought a larger tamper I just offset it to touch the side of the basket and gave it a firmish polish to level the edges.  It's just as effective as larger tampers and edge and other channelling is more down to uneven tamp pressures in the puck and trapped air etc.

When I bought my DB I set infusion time to 10secs because that is what my BE used. Later I set it to the default 7secs. Default pump power. The reset function in one of the menu's sets this and several other things to defaults including water hardness which may need changing to what it should be after using it. I'd stay away from infusion setting until you are making reliable drinks.

My hobby is always the same out from a push button 30sec shot and then I check the weight. Not a good idea really so most people weigh the shot as it's being delivered so if the usual 30sec shot time is used it will be nominal not exact. The ratio of grinds in and shot weight out is the area that is fixed and you need to try several in a nominal 30 sec. This pretty standard stuff. Some go on to a nominal 40sec at some point. Depends on what it does to taste. Get the basics right first before trying other variations.

Ratios, I generally try one around 2, one around 3 and one in the middle. That's usually enough to find out what ratio change does to taste. Taste can't usually be fully appreciated unless a drink is allowed to cool. Then it gets into the usual comments - still a bit bitter try grinding a bit finer but coffee is not a sweet substance so tasting notes can a bit misleading.  One I used recently mentioned white sugar. Maybe when combined with another note that is not sweet. Lychee in this case. It also mentioned mandarin - imagine one with crinkled up skin so they have a flat taste. That needs some acidity to get around that.


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## MasterMark (Mar 11, 2021)

Thanks! Lots of tips there for me to get on with. I've followed your advice and have reset the system to the default settings. I'll focus on 18g in and playing with 1:2, 1:2.5 & 1:3 ratios in roughly the same time, and then go from there. Thanks for all your time and suggestions, much appreciated!


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