# Rancillio Silvia owners help...



## soundklinik

Hi everybody, so I got the 18 month old Rancillio-Silvia with Rossi RR45 grinder...Beautiful machine

I ground 14g of beans and made a double shot and noticed that the espresso is coming out watery, not much foam and when I open the portafilter, there is water in the basket, on top of the grounds? Shouldn't the water be pushed out completely, leaving "dry" grounds?

In comparison, my old delonghi made thicker espresso, with better foam, (from supermarket pre-ground espresso blend)...

When I used the pre-ground in Silvia, it was bad too...

Are the burrs set not fine enough in the grinder?...Is there a way to tell if the Burrs, are dull? Would that affect the way they grind the beans?

(Since I have very few beans left, I didn't experiment with burr settings)

The beans I used (and ground) are nothing special, too lightly roasted, but it seems that the shot should have tasted better than supermarket ground vacuum pack made in my old Delonghi EC155?

WHAT am I doing wrong?...I managed to make good espresso out of EC155 and I can't manage a good one from Silvia?









Any tips on how to get a Perfect espresso out of Silvia would be greatly appreciated...

Thank you...

PS...Could the machine be defective?.. or neglected in some way? I hope not, it is still in warranty...just asking


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## drude

I recently got a Silvia and found I not only needed a finer grind than my previous machine, but also more coffee than the stated weight for the basket. Try 17 or 18g and see how that works out. If that doesn't help, try a finer grind. Be prepared to get through a fair amount of beans before you get it right - I ran out trying to dial my grinder in.


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## drude

Forgot to add, there's plenty of useful info available online.

This is handy for getting the temperature right - http://www.mythos-rini.com/blog/archives/5941

This is good for maintainance - http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/videos-home/maintenance/silvia-care


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## coffeechap

the silvia is very grind specific so you will have o mess about with the grind setting as the ginds are probably too coarse. The rr45 will absolutely do the job you just have to get it dialled in. remove all beans from the grinder and then turn the grinder on. now adjust the grind finer slowly until you hear first chirp of the burrs touching, then turn the setting one cick the other way. you are now at the zero point of the grinder. coffee ground at this time will be like fine flour, or turkish grind. go back three clicks and try that setting first with 14 grams. weight the grinds out to make sure you have 14grams in the basket. Now load the portafilter and tamp evenly and firmly. pull a shot with that and time 27 seconds after the button is pushed. Stop the machine and weigh the shot of coffee. you should be aiming for around 22- 23 grams shot weight.

what does the shot look like?

How did it pour?

what was the weight?

from here we can help you sort out the grind settings.


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## soundklinik

Thank you both

@drude, thanks for the link and the idea...

@coffeechap, I followed your thing exactly and I got this:

It looked much better than before, for sure...

It poured nicely, thick in the beginning and made decent foam

The final weight: 60 grams total, after 27 seconds of running...almost double of your shot weight?

(I made the 14 grams in double basket, so you know)

Did you mean there should be only around 20-23 grams of liquid in the cup? My scale could be off a gram or 2, but not 30 grams...

In general, is it better to make single shots on Silvia?

TIA

PS I am beginning to see what you all were saying about the importance of a grinder...


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## coffeechap

Ok next thing to do as suggested is the up the dose in the basket firt to 15 then to 16 and come back again


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## drude

When you ask is it better to make single shots, do you mean using the 7g basket? I've never used the 7g baskets for any machines I've had but by many accounts (there was a thread about this here recently) singles are harder to use than doubles, due to the shape.

I (inadvertently - what coffee fiend wants a single?) ordered a single in a decent coffee shop in Budapest recently and rather than use a single basket they just let the pour from one spout go straight into the drip tray.

Stick with the doubles. Once you get the grinder set right and your weight worked out you should be very happy with what you can produce. It just takes a bit of working out.


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## soundklinik

OK, will do further tests tomorrow, ran out of beans...

I always drink doubles too, the question was a bit oriented towards fine tuning the shots, smaller shot, 7g, is more accurate to see if it is ground fine or not...

I hope I will figure it out soon...

Thank you, cheers

PS And the wet grounds? In your machine Drude, after your double, are the grounds fairly dry, or you have a small puddle of liquid?


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## drude

They are pretty dry. I was getting wet pucks putting 23g into a triple basket. I switched down to the double to try and produce slightly weaker shots and one result was that the wet pucks disappeared. The lowest I've put into the 14g basket is 17g, but I've never had a wet puck from it.


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## soundklinik

drude said:


> They are pretty dry. I was getting wet pucks putting 23g into a triple basket. I switched down to the double to try and produce slightly weaker shots and one result was that the wet pucks disappeared. The lowest I've put into the 14g basket is 17g, but I've never had a wet puck from it.


Good news, my shots start to taste and look much better. I got a bag of Lavazza, and actually had a few nice doubles

Still, not perfect, it is wet on top, small puddle...

I have a small digital scale that measures in grams, (not in 10ths of gram) and I doubt it is accurate, so doses vary.

cheers:coffee:


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## drude

I had a 1g scale and recently bought a .1g one instead. It makes a real difference. As purchases inspired by this forum go, scales are definitely at the affordable end so worth thinking about.

Glad to hear the shots are getting better.


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## soundklinik

In search for a perfect shot...

I got a kg of espresso beans and started to experiment with burr settings

I started to widen the burrs (and make shots on different settings) to see what will happen.

The burr set up on Rossi rr45 is so fine, I am on setting 6 or 7 clicks and still getting extremely fine grind. (New, different batch of beans)

Since my scale is not accurate, I tried to fill the basket to what I estimate around 14-17 grams...

When tamped down, it looks like the top photo. Tightened and released. Slight impression of filter and screw.

The other are half way, and final shot. (Glass is 8 cm tall and 6 cm diameter on top)

Not too bad looking results I think, didn't taste it though...

Still wet grounds after a double, that one I can't figure out...I thought that if the basket is correctly filled and tapped down, as the water passes through, grounds swell and fill up the empty space and water can't stay...is that correct?

Anyway, I thought I report back...How do they look to you? Time about 30-40 seconds

I think, I am starting to like miss Silvia...

TIA


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## The Systemic Kid

What weight/volume are you getting in 30-40secs? You should be aiming to complete your shot no later than 30secs and looking for 30ml volume or 27grm weight output. The figures are a guideline - not set in stone - but the 27-30sec shot extraction time is important. What does the shot taste like? Is it thin or bitter tasting? If it tastes good, i.e. has depth and has a pleasant aftertaste that lingers, you're in the right ball park. From there, it's just a matter of tweaking - grind/dose/tamp pressure combinations.


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## soundklinik

The Systemic Kid said:


> What weight/volume are you getting in 30-40secs? You should be aiming to complete your shot no later than 30secs and looking for 30ml volume or 27grm weight output. The figures are a guideline - not set in stone - but the 27-30sec shot extraction time is important. What does the shot taste like? Is it thin or bitter tasting? If it tastes good, i.e. has depth and has a pleasant aftertaste that lingers, you're in the right ball park. From there, it's just a matter of tweaking - grind/dose/tamp pressure combinations.


I hear you, I think I may be ~around your figures there, rough estimate...

The taste, I don't know, I was grinding/brewing and dumping...I was getting frustrated with shots that didn't even resemble results on youTube...I was going first for the visuals, at least it's starting to resemble an espresso...

Some of those that I tasted were maybe a bit bitter, but i use sugar...thin...I don't think so...

Still far from perfect, but starting to get there.

Thanks

PS What causes bitterness? Water too hot? (I tried temp surfing a bit)


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## The Systemic Kid

A decent set of scales are a must - you'll never get it right by guessitmate. Only cost £7-£8 and worth every penny. Here's a useful link for gauging shot taste.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-diagnose-extraction-problems.html


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## mike 100

"Thanks for posting that link, very interesting, never heard of "start dump" before but it makes sense


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## The Systemic Kid

When you've got everything dialled in - worth doing a few shots split into thirds from start of extraction and tasting the results - it's quite a revelation.


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## drude

This thread posted earlier today has a link to a short ebook well worth reading, particularly towards the end with guidance on refining your recipe. You do need sensitive enough scales, though.


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## soundklinik

The Systemic Kid said:


> A decent set of scales are a must - you'll never get it right by guessitmate. Only cost £7-£8 and worth every penny. Here's a useful link for gauging shot taste.
> 
> http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide-diagnose-extraction-problems.html


Thanks for the link, what kind of scales are you talking about? 7-8 pounds? Found them on ebay from UK


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## The Systemic Kid

Kitchen scales aren't really suitable for weighing low amounts around 15-18grms typical shot doses. Bought these from Amazon couple of weeks ago - well made and robust.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004VZ0KUK/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## glevum

I have same scales and really like the flip case lid. Bought mine off ebay for a fiver i think


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## soundklinik

Thanx for the link, found the same one on Amazon FR.


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## The Systemic Kid

soundklinik said:


> Thanx for the link, found the same one on Amazon FR.


Excellent - scales take the guesswork out of the equation - useful too if you want to measure extraction by weight.


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## Olliehulla

Interesting we have got to page 3 and no one (unless I missed it) has mentioned the importance of freshly roasted beans....? Discuss


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## coffeechap

i thought that freshly roasted beans were just a given?


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## djoberg

I'm a new owner of the Rancillio Silvia V3 and the Rocky grinder. I've been pulling some decent shots at 25 seconds using a Dark French Roast bean. I am experiencing what might be a problem with the steaming process. I warm my machine for at least 18 minutes (including purging the steam wand) and while steaming the milk the light comes on about 20 seconds into the process. I've been led to believe one should quit steaming immediately if the light comes on but I continue steaming up to 45 seconds and the milk tastes okay every time. Why does the light come on? Am I doing something wrong? Any help would be appreciated!


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## Daren

The light comes on when the boiler heating element is active. I can't see of any reason to stop steaming when it's on.

My usual process is to pull a shot, switch on the steam button, wait until the light goes out and then stream the milk. This normally gives plenty of time to stream all the milk I need, however I have read some people prefer to start streaming just before the light goes out (80 or so seconds) to keep the boiler heating as they stream. This keeps up the stream pressure and keeps the light on longer. I've not had a need for any more steam to do this.


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## Mrboots2u

djoberg said:


> I'm a new owner of the Rancillio Silvia V3 and the Rocky grinder. I've been pulling some decent shots at 25 seconds using a Dark French Roast bean. I am experiencing what might be a problem with the steaming process. I warm my machine for at least 18 minutes (including purging the steam wand) and while steaming the milk the light comes on about 20 seconds into the process. I've been led to believe one should quit steaming immediately if the light comes on but I continue steaming up to 45 seconds and the milk tastes okay every time. Why does the light come on? Am I doing something wrong? Any help would be appreciated!


Just out of interest roughly what volume of milk are you steaming at any one time ? Should be ok with the boiler light coming back on, as this is normal, but need to make sure not over steaming in terms of time and volume and running the boiler dry whilst doing it.


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## djoberg

Thanks Daren and Mrboots2u for your quick replies. I had actually written, with the same question, to Rancillio and their reply confirmed what you two said. It is *normal* for the light to come back on while steaming because the boiler temp is decreasing and the light indicates the heating element is raising the temp. They did encourage me to wait for the light to go off before steaming another pitcher of milk. Daren I do my steaming first and then I turn the water switch on and fill my shot glasses to bring the temp down for brewing. Mrboots2u I normally steam roughly 12 oz. of milk and it usually takes about 45 seconds to bring it up to 150 degrees.


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## Mrboots2u

djoberg said:


> Thanks Daren and Mrboots2u for your quick replies. I had actually written, with the same question, to Rancillio and their reply confirmed what you two said. It is *normal* for the light to come back on while steaming because the boiler temp is decreasing and the light indicates the heating element is raising the temp. They did encourage me to wait for the light to go off before steaming another pitcher of milk. Daren I do my steaming first and then I turn the water switch on and fill my shot glasses to bring the temp down for brewing. Mrboots2u I normally steam roughly 12 oz. of milk and it usually takes about 45 seconds to bring it up to 150 degrees.


PleaseTry it where you brew espresso first and then steam milk, that's the way I always did it with the silvia , using the temp surfing method. I think 12 oz of milk in one go may be right on the limits of its capability,but I never steamed this mucho one go ,so am guessing, I certainly wouldn't recommend doing anymore than this in one go . Hope helpful .


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## djoberg

I was wrong. I steam 8 oz. at a time. I will try brewing first like you suggested but most "demos" on the Silvia V3 that I've seen highly suggest steaming first because they say it's quicker bringing the temp down for brewing that it is raising it for steaming.


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## Mrboots2u

djoberg said:


> I was wrong. I steam 8 oz. at a time. I will try brewing first like you suggested but most "demos" on the Silvia V3 that I've seen highly suggest steaming first because they say it's quicker bringing the temp down for brewing that it is raising it for steaming.


No worries there is lots of differs opinion on the temp surf thing ,just give it a go . Glad it's 8oz ,12 oz in one go would be in danger of knackering your boiler up.

It's a good little machine, as everyone says it has its idiosyncrasy s but that's part of the charm. It will teach you a lot re dosing and and making espresso (although in my case perhaps not enough







) .


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## Daren

There are no hard and fast rules and everyone has their own technique that works for them. I'd suggest keeping an open mind and try as many different routines as you can until you find what's best for you. Your the best judge of what's tastes right. Do try other people's suggestions - there is a lot of good advice out there (and duff!) but you don't know to you try.

For what it's worth it sounds like Mrboots routine is the same as mine..... Even down to Espresso first, milk second. It works for me.

Do let us know what routine you end up with.


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## Mrboots2u

Daren said:


> There are no hard and fast rules and everyone has their own technique that works for them. I'd suggest keeping an open mind and try as many different routines as you can until you find what's best for you. Your the best judge of what's tastes right. Do try other people's suggestions - there is a lot of good advice out there (and duff!) but you don't know to you try.
> 
> For what it's worth it sounds like Mrboots routine is the same as mine..... Even down to Espresso first, milk second. It works for me.
> 
> Do let us know what routine you end up with.


Plus 1 above,try some put then use whatever tastes better to you . Be warned if you google temp surfing there are some very complicated routines for the silvia out there,this one worked and was relatively easy to do.


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## sgapper

Hi there. We just bought a Rancilio after our old faithful Sunbeam (from Australia - can't get them here) finally gave up the ghost. We are gradually seeing what people mean when they say it's a machine that takes work! Main issue we're having a the moment is that it's difficult to lock the portafilter into the grouphead. Anyone else struggled? It seems lots of people have issues getting the best out of the machine but this doesn't seem to be a commonly encountered problem and just want to make sure we're not doing anything stupid before we send it back.

Cheers


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## Mrboots2u

Hi how muxh coffee are you dosing into the basket if too much the portafilter will be a tight fit or not fit at all. About 16g-17g for a double basket is so ok. If your shower head is caked in coffee after a shot then try lessening the dose. The puck will have a deep as opposed to shallow indentation from the screw in the shower head.


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## Daren

If your machine is brand new the rubber grouphead seal might take a little while to bed in? I can't say I had any problem engaging mine - muscle memory will come into play and you'll soon get the knack.


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## Mrboots2u

Daren said:


> If your machine is brand new the rubber grouphead seal might take a little while to bed in? I can't say I had any problem engaging mine - muscle memory will come into play and you'll soon get the knack.


Yep that too! I couldn't get mine in when I over filled it also .


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## AussieEx

Definitely sounds like over-filling the PF. I remember doing that soon after getting my Silvia (and while using pre-ground coffee before getting a grinder). Attempting to slow the shot down (to compensate for the preground) I over-dosed, and couldn't figure out why the PF wouldn't lock in!

FWIW I also follow the 'shot first then steam routine'. I temp surf using the Mark Prince flush routine demonstrated at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhxvDusY3jk, modified slightly to take into account the V3's lower boiler preset. Assuming the machine is properly heated (~30mins), several quick flushes until the element is activated. Wait for the light to go out then wait a few secs, flush for about 2 secs until steam stops, then lock, load and pull the shot. Once the shot is done, activate steam switch, remove PF and flush for a sec to clean while heating, then estimate just before the heating light goes off (takes practice...), purge steam wand and steam. I find the machine can comfortably steam for two 160ml flat whites in one go - not sure I'd want to try any more than that.


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