# Noob help: every shot channels :(



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

I'm a new to the world of espresso and so far have gone through about 600g of coffee managing only 1 shot that didn't blonde within seconds and fill the 60ml glass in 10secs.

Machine is a Gaggia Classic (pressure checked and reduced)

Grinder is a Mazzer Mini E set to 4 'ridges' fine of factory indicated setting

Tamper is sized perfectly for the basket

Dose: unknown, don't have any scales (yet) but I have tried a number of variations in case the shower screen was cracking the puck as it expanded

Coffee is 1 week old Lavazza Super Crema

For reasons known to itself the mini E seems to like creating clumps. I have tried to swirl a cocktail stick around like in some videos I have seen to no avail.

Pictures:





































Any help greatly appreciated! Scales and naked portafilter are on their way.


----------



## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

Pretty sure it's going to be the lavazza,there never going to be as fresh as any of the online roasters frequently mentioned on here

UK Based Roasters

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=4924


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Looks like you need to grind quite a bit finer yet.

The individual grounds look far too big.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Grind looks far too coarse for espresso - indicated by extraction time of 10secs - way too fast. From the pics, I would guess you are also dosing too high. For the Classic 16grms is a good ball park figure to start with. Without scales though, you're in the dark. Suggest you get some asap. If your grind is right, you should be able to fill the portafilter basket and, without compressing, sweep off the excess leaving the dose surface level with the sides - then tamp. You should had a couple of centimetres from the compressed puck and the top of the basket. Aim to pull 45-50ml of shot in 27secs - if you get that - you're in the ball park. Would suggest getting some fresh beans - makes all the difference. Final thing - are you using the pressurised basket - if so - ditch and use a conventional one.


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks. It looks like the grind, I have found without proper weight of beans on top in the hopper the mini doesn't do well. I have played with the grind setting and managed 60ml in 25secs which is a lot closer - it tasted awful (sour) but I guess this is a step closer. Hopefully being able to measure once the scales arrive and with some new beans I will help me dial it in.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Beans in the hopper will help immensely.

Grinders are gravity fed and rely on a constant pressure from above to help the beans through the burrs.

Dosing just for a shot is an issue on some grinders.


----------



## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Just an aside, you have swapped the standard pressurised basket out for a non pressurised haven't you? You can tell as the non pressurised has loads of holes at the bottom, the pressurised has just one big one in the middle with a plastic thingy stuck in it.

If you are using the pressurised, you will never get a better shot as it forces fake crema.

Otherwise as others have said your grind looks far too coarse, you need to go significantly finer. Again as others have said get some fresh beans too from one of the UK roasters, the Lavazza is probably old and stale which wont help with your shots (and it wont taste nice!).


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

I'll order some new beans, shots taste like death atm. Any recommendations for forgiving ones for milk based drinks?



aaronb said:


> Just an aside, you have swapped the standard pressurised basket out for a non pressurised haven't you? You can tell as the non pressurised has loads of holes at the bottom, the pressurised has just one big one in the middle with a plastic thingy stuck in it.


It's def the non-pressurised, lots of holes underneath. My classic is pretty old I think so probably before they started shipping with the pressurised baskets.


----------



## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Use a IV needle to dissipate and stir grounds in basket. You can get these free at any Pharmacy. Ask them for a 22g or above. It's what I use and works brilliant!


----------



## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

narc said:


> I'll order some new beans, shots taste like death atm. Any recommendations for forgiving ones for milk based drinks?


I've well into a kilo of signature blend from rave coffee,very forgiving,traditional style espresso with little acidity and well priced,there Italian job is even cheaper and is probably like a good version of the lavazza having a little robusta in,it's hard to recommend a bean because everyone's taste is different.

http://www.ravecoffee.co.uk/coffee-bean-blends/4547538588


----------



## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah very hard to recommend a bean, what flavours do you like?

Have a look at Has Bean for some lighter coffee, Londinium for some darker coffee.

Or try out Smokey Barn's new blend which seems to be going down well!


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Best bet is to try all the roasters - Hasbean, Square Mile, Smokey Barn, Union etc and see what ticks the box for you. Some offer good value taster packs. IMO, lighter roasts, e.g. those from Hasbean are better suited to brew/pour over method. I find them too acidic in espresso but it's down to personal preference. You'll find subscription deals better value but you will get tied in for three, six or twelve months. Londinium, whose beans are medium plus roast, do a subscription of five 250grm packs for around £25.00 a month which is pretty good value compared to single pack costs of around £10.00 - ouch. You can cancel at any time so could make it bi-monthly delivery. Believe Hasbean have introduced a direct debit scheme which may be similar.


----------



## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

^ I concur with the above. Im in kind of in the same position as the OP, in that I'm still learning with my Classic. Has Bean do some nice beans but I find them quite lively in the classic, during pour and in the cup (better in the FP, Aeropress). I have had most luck with Rave and so far Smokey Barn are good. Going to try union and square mile next.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

autopilot said:


> ^ I concur with the above. Im in kind of in the same position as the OP, in that I'm still learning with my Classic. Has Bean do some nice beans but I find them quite lively in the classic, during pour and in the cup (better in the FP, Aeropress). I have had most luck with Rave and so far Smokey Barn are good. Going to try union and square mile next.


I'm giving Union a go at the moment. Using their Foundation blend. Produces an espresso with good depth and a delightful creamy mouthfeel.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Final thing - are you using the pressurised basket - if so - ditch and use a conventional one.


Slight highjack. I got my Classic last weer but for various reasons haven't used it yet. I've got a non pressurised double basket in there now but do I still need to leave the wee plastic thing in the portafilter if i'm using the non pressurised basket?


----------



## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

No, take the plastic bit out.


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

aaronb said:


> Yeah very hard to recommend a bean, what flavours do you like?
> 
> Have a look at Has Bean for some lighter coffee, Londinium for some darker coffee.
> 
> Or try out Smokey Barn's new blend which seems to be going down well!


Honestly, I have no idea because all I have ever drunk have been lattes from various branches of cafe nero, costa and the like so I don't really know what good coffee tastes like!

Something that is going to be forgiving of technique (and the classic's temp stability...) would be a plus. Once I get things dialled in I may try some taster packs and see what I like.


----------



## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

well... an old fav of mine when i had the gaggia and now with the cherub is HasBeans "cachoeira"

its smooth, chocolatey, sweet and easy to extract. Its not as light as some hasbean roasts, but also nowhere near as dark as a rave signature. I find it makes mild, smooth, easy to drink espresso which works just fine in milk.

I'm playing with steampunk coffee's single origins just now, and they have also been utterly delicious.


----------



## reneb (Nov 2, 2011)

shrink said:


> well... an old fav of mine when i had the gaggia and now with the cherub is HasBeans "cachoeira"
> 
> its smooth, chocolatey, sweet and easy to extract. Its not as light as some hasbean roasts, but also nowhere near as dark as a rave signature. I find it makes mild, smooth, easy to drink espresso which works just fine in milk.


+1 to that - it's been my favourite bean this year.

You could also try Union's bright note espresso, or from James Gourmet either formula 6 or Colonel Grumpy's Chapin Blend - all very forgiving.


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

Still having problems









Coffee is signature blend from rave coffee (arrived today)

Naked portafilter from happy donkey (to try and identify problems)

Scales arrived, dose is 16g

Used a needle to improve distribution

Every shot whether the grind is adjusted in steps to give time to 1.5oz at 20secs through to 35secs (dose consistent @ 16g, did about 5 grind settings) is sour. The happy donkey basket seems to need a very slightly finer grind for an equiv. time. Viewed from below the coffee comes out centrally in one stream, not masses of dark tiger stripes though. I have even drunk water from the machine to see if that could be causing it but it tastes fine (I am using tap water) - I may backflush it anyway.

This espresso stuff is not quite as easy as I thought it was going to be! Again, any help appreciated.


----------



## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Do you have any good coffee shops nearby so you can calibrate your tastebuds?


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

lookseehear said:


> Do you have any good coffee shops nearby so you can calibrate your tastebuds?


That is my other thought, I'm just not used to neat espresso - perhaps I'll try steaming milk to make a milk based drink (which is all I would normally drink anyway!). Perhaps a day out in London is required - no decent coffee shops near here in Bedford.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

narc said:


> Every shot whether the grind is adjusted in steps to give time to 1.5oz at 20secs through to 35secs (dose consistent @ 16g, did about 5 grind settings) is sour.


By sour, do you mean acidic? What level of roast are the beans? I find lightly roasted beans, e.g. Hasbean are not to my taste for an espresso - too much acidity coming through. Medium dark roasts are more preferable IMO for espresso. Backflushing is a very good idea - it will remove the coffee oils residue in the brew head which can taint the shot. Don't forget to clean out the portafilter too - make up a solution and soak. Resist temptation to scrub - you can end up scouring through the chrome finish and exposing the brass underneath.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Narc, sounds like you are still too coarse. Go finer.


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

Sour to me sounds like acidic Sour = lemon = acid. Not sure what level of roast these are: http://www.ravecoffee.co.uk/coffee-bean-blends/4547538588s

I have tried going even finer but it just chokes the machine and almost nothing comes out in 30secs, perhaps I should try the same even finer grind with less tamping pressure?

Just backflushed the machine with appropriate detergent. After 4 goes the water coming out was still a bit brown so cleaned the blank portafilter, stuck in some more detergent and gave it another few goes. I'll see if this makes any difference tomorrow.

This is a very helpful forum - thanks.


----------



## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

Could it be a temp issue causing some sourness,do you temp surf the machine?

I'm using the signature and would say there's not much acidity in the blend,the beans may still be a little too fresh if only just roasted,I usually leave mine a week before use


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

bubbajvegas said:


> Could it be a temp issue causing some sourness,do you temp surf the machine?
> 
> I'm using the signature and would say there's not much acidity in the blend,the beans may still be a little too fresh if only just roasted,I usually leave mine a week before use


Yes, I'm doing something along the lines of http://www.home-barista.com/tips/different-approach-to-gaggia-temperature-routine-t22059.html. I have a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler so I'm not working totally blind, without any playing with the steam switch the boiler temp plunges about 8 degrees C by the end of the shot. I'm not able to see the output temp though since you need a way to restrict the flow and to get a temp probe in. I could play with different starting temps.

I wait until the boiler temp stabilises at about 93C then hit the steam switch for 4 secs and pull the shot. No doubt absolute temp doesn't matter since it depends on where on the boiler the probe is (mine is on the back mid way down).


----------



## bubbajvegas (Jan 26, 2013)

Sounds like your ok on temp then,I used to do the same on my gaggia baby with the steam trick so I reckon that ain't the problem


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Try a 2g reduction in dose and adjust grind to maintain flow rate + report back


----------



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Try a 2g reduction in dose and adjust grind to maintain flow rate + report back


OK, I think this cracked it! At 14g I varied the grind in small increments again and managed to get to where the the balance between sour and acrid was good - it is rather a delicate balance easily pushed one way or the other. The relationship between grind size and extraction time is also very non-linear, going veeery slightly too fine and I ended almost choking the machine and 45sec times.

One further question, at the start of the extraction things go a little like this

http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction_files/system-meltdown.jpg

for maybe 5-6 seconds before developing into this

http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction_files/tmi.jpg

Is this normal or an indication of problems?


----------

