# Piccino PF



## almoalmo

I am having problems with the PF unscrewing itself for no apparent reason. Works fine for weeks then I have a messy worktop and a broken cup although I follow the same procedure. I have checked the seal and it looks ok. It's a mystery!


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## Eyedee

Could you be overloading the basket, are you weighing the dose?

Ian


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## Glenn

Check the gasket. It may have hardened up and needs replacing.


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## almoalmo

Am definitely not overloading, could be a hard gasket so better order a replacement. Thanks for the comments.


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## espressotechno

Check the grooves inside the group head for accumulated gunge - scrape out with a small bladed screwdriver.....

Group seals usually last approx. 12 months before going hard & developing cracks/scratches/etc.


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## Foz

I have the same problem with my Piccino. I need to hold on to the portafilter just in case it starts to unscrew. I have noticed that this is more likely to happen when the group seal is new or when I have just cleaned it and it is wet. I tried an 8mm gasket (as opposed to the 8.5mm gasket supplied) and providing I pull the portafilter until it is tight (well past 6 O Clock) have had no problems.


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## Coffee Dog

Foz said:


> I have the same problem with my Piccino. I need to hold on to the portafilter just in case it starts to unscrew. I have noticed that this is more likely to happen when the group seal is new or when I have just cleaned it and it is wet. I tried an 8mm gasket (as opposed to the 8.5mm gasket supplied) and providing I pull the portafilter until it is tight (well past 6 O Clock) have had no problems.


It only leaks when I back flush it for more then 10s or so. I haven't come across the above whilst pulling a shot. Mine is tight at exactly 6 O'clock.

Perhaps it's a knackered gasket. Or alternativley your coffee is creating too much back pressure ;- over dosing/hard tamp/ too fine a grind? ... just thinking out loud here.


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## Glenn

That's way too long to be backflushing.

Literally just pulse on then off (after a few seconds)

There is so much pressure building up it's no wonder it's leaking


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## Dazza010

I have the same problem with my Piccino, it can go for weeks, even months without a hiccup then out of the blue it will come undone.

I have spoken to Adrian at Fracino about this on several occasions and even sent my machine back to them for inspection where is performed flawlessly for 2 days and pulled over 200 shots without missing a beat!! I have noticed that mine can also come undone after washing the group head with a wet brush so not sure if water is getting behind the seal causing it to rotate when under pressure? Mine also comes undone when pulling shots or back flushing.

Not sure if this is of any help but on my machine there appears to be a sweet spot when tightening up the shower screen screw (the shower screen and brass dispersion plate hold the seal in place). If this screw is not tightened sufficiently the handle will not stay in place likewise if it is too tight it can distort the group seal not allowing the PF to seal correctly and lock in place. When my PF does start to come undone I find if I tighten the shower screen screw between half and one full turn it usually rectifies the problem for a while. Perhaps the shower screen comes loose slightly every time you undo the PF?

One thing I might suggest is anyone who is affected by this problem contact Fracino and make them aware, firstly they are extremely helpful and as others have said on this forum their customer service is second to none but secondly when I last spoke to Adrian regarding this concern he informed me mine was the only machine they were aware of that suffers from the PF coming undone under pressure.


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## Bruce Boogie

After making some good espressos, when our guests left I was making a relaxing cup and CRASH the PF shot out and knocked the bottom our of a Christmas Guzzini coffee cup - ouch!

so now I' officially in the PF club!!

Probably Caused by over enthusiastic tamping with the Fracino plastic lump!


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## Foz

I did inform Fracino about the problem of my portafilter unscrewing a few months back, I returned my machine to Fracino where they attended to this and some other issues (internal leak), they replaced the seal and returned the Piccino as "fixed". I have to admit that the frequency of the portafilter unscrewing itself has drastically decreased but I still need to be careful. If I have any problems I will adjust the shower screen screw as suggested by Dazza. I do not understand why Fracino would say that they had not heard of this problem.


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## Coffee Dog

Glenn said:


> That's way too long to be backflushing.
> 
> Literally just pulse on then off (after a few seconds)
> 
> There is so much pressure building up it's no wonder it's leaking


To quote the manual:



> Press the brew start/stop button and allow the machine to run for about 30 seconds then turn off, then repeat the above several times..


When I did this it leaked and the pf began to unscrew. So since then I just run it till I hear the tone of pump change, which I guess is 10s max.


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## Bruce Boogie

Just tried backflushing my Piccino - tried a few seconds and when I turned it off the water walloped out of the back spout and I put the standard basket back. Why am I doing it?


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## Coffee Dog

Bruce Boogie said:


> Just tried backflushing my Piccino - tried a few seconds and when I turned it off the water walloped out of the back spout and I put the standard basket back. Why am I doing it?







Cleaning. Take a look at the above Boogie. Lots of info on the Seattle Coffee Gear channel aswell that i've found useful.


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## Glenn

That advice (in the manual) is dangerous.

When you hear the pump change sufficient pressure has built up. There is nowhere for the water to go except through the group


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## Bruce Boogie

Well that was useful - 30 seconds sounds like bomb making on this machine!!

Thanks for the advice. Fracino seem to sell Quartz products to clean the group ~ will any approved cleaner but as good or even better. Loathed to order and pay the postage if I can buy it locally under a different name.

The plastic tamper is 56.6 mm and is a bit loose so is it a 58mm or that one that is a bit bigger and where do I get it from if places are out of stock?

Slowly getting there - good coffee with no incidents today - a slightly coarser grind of 16g and a less heavy tamp.

HAs anyone produced a flowchart to help an idiot like me get the process a little quicker.

I have e-mailed RAVE about their next barista course.


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## Dazza010

Foz

When Fracino returned your machine as 'fixed' did they tell you what cause's the PF to unscrew and what they did to rectify it? Mine played up again this morning, first 3 shots the PF unscrewed and had to be held in place however the fourth shot was fine, the PF didn't move at all.

My machine went back to Fracino around a year ago so that's why they may have said they had not heard of the problem, maybe.


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## Glenn

Maybe this will help http://5mcoffee.com/coffee-faq.html


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## Foz

Hi Dazza, Fracino only commented that they thought that this problem was fixed when they changed the design a few years back (thicker steel plate?). My model was manufactured after the change and they sounded surprised that I had a problem. Out of interest I have just changed the gasket back to an 8.5mm (ordered from Fracino in November) but I did tighten the shower screen more than normal (but not enough to distort the shower screen I hope) as recommended by Dazza, lots of coffee made yesterday and today and the portafilter did not slip once!

I do tighten the portafilter just to the point when the Piccino starts to move on a granite worktop (about 5 O'Clock with the 8.5mm gasket). I reckon that the tightness of the shower plate screw may be the key (or have Fracino just had a batch of gaskets that exaggerated the problem?). Anyway, good luck with your machine, the Piccino is great for the price (or at least it was before they increased their prices) and continues to make great cups of coffee.

I would not be too concerned about backflushing for the recommended 30 seconds, my understanding is that the pressure does not increase as a valve re-directs the flow from the pump back to the water tank (through the flexible pipe that goes into the tank) once the maximum pressure is reached. This is however the most likely time for the portafilter to unscrew. It is this valve that ensures the pressure does not rise above the set pressure (9 bar?) if pulling a shot and the coffee is too fine.

Peter.


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## almoalmo

When I started this thread I did not anticipate such a response. Obviously a bigger problem than I originally thought. I have found the problem to be completely random during brewing and back flushing even shortly after giving the group head a good clean. The frustrating thing is it lulls me into a false sense of security and then " bang goes another cup" otherwise I have been pleased with the machine. Guess I will have to keep hold of the PF as it seems to be a design defect.


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## Coffee Dog

Foz said:


> I would not be too concerned about backflushing for the recommended 30 seconds, my understanding is that the pressure does not increase as *a valve re-directs the flow from the pump back to the water tank (through the flexible pipe that goes into the tank*) once the maximum pressure is reached. This is however the most likely time for the portafilter to unscrew. It is this valve that ensures the pressure does not rise above the set pressure (9 bar?) if pulling a shot and the coffee is too fine.
> 
> Peter.


Thanks for that Peter! I checked it out earlier and it's as described above.


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## Norvin

When I got my Piccino (second hand), one of the first things I did was to test the pressure in the portafilter.

The pressure guage needle spun right up to the stop, about 12 bar, so the actual pressure was somewhat above that.

I took the OPV apart and cleaned everything, reassembled and adjusted to 10 bar.

Could the unscrewing problem be caused by the OPV valve intermittently sticking and allowing the pressure to build up to high levels? The pump only goes up to about 16 bar, perhaps that is enough to cause the problem. It may be worth looking to see if water is being returned to the tank i.e. the OPV is operating, during the unscrewing incidents.

One word of caution, if you completely remove the OPV plunger, its a bugger to put back as it cants and jams on the threads. It took me ages to get it back in place.


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## Dazza010

I removed the shower screen, brass plate and seal on my machine Sunday, gave it a good clean and reassembled with a new 8mm group seal where previously it had an 8.5mm. I did notice I was able to fully tighten the shower screen screw with the 8mm seal where previously with the 8.5 it would distort the seal if too tight. Also when I removed the old seal there was quite a lot of water behind it, not sure if this would contribute to it slipping?

I've only pulled around 5 shots since changing the seal and it hasn't slipped at all so time will tell although the handle now goes way past the 6 O'clock position and onto between 4-5 O'clock before it tightens.

Interestingly I had the original Piccino with the two seperate switches on top and never had this problem in over 13 months of use, it wasn't until I got the new Piccino with the single button (power switch now on front underneath) that this problem surfaced within the first week.


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## almoalmo

It certainly sounds feasible that the OPV is sticking intermittently but not sure I fancy taking the machine apart.


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