# La Marzocco Strada EP 2 Group



## risky (May 11, 2015)

This was mentioned in the GS/3 thread. Probably won't end up being a bargain:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/La-Marzocco-Strada-EP-2-Group-Coffee-Machine/172067458909

Anyway I'm posting more because I have a question regarding the listing. It says at the bottom of the description:

"We are selling this machine as a business. Please be aware that VAT will be added ONTOP of the winning price."

Is this correct? Seems a bit strange. Surely the VAT is their responsibility, if they are paying it back via some kind of margin scheme that doesn't mean they can charge anything on top of the selling price?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

they cannot do that, although many try to...the finish price is the actual price


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Nice people to do business with? Caveat Emptor but they sound 50 shades of shady to me.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Thanks guys, I did think that was iffy. Also, who can afford to have something like this sat in storage for 6 months?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

http://sellercentre.ebay.co.uk/charging-vat-items-you-sell


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

So I take that as (assuming qualifying item):

If BIN then include VAT in price

If auction then VAT can only be added if specified in the description.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

I think its legit tbh - I mean they can either add VAT on top of the sale price, or, if it sells for say £6,000 - tell their accountant it was sold for £5000 + VAT.

End of the day it doesn't really affect anything as bidders should know they have to pay 20% on top.

And if anyone cares, i'm currently the high bidder


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> Nice people to do business with? Caveat Emptor but they sound 50 shades of shady to me.


I don't think there is anything shady...

They bought the machine from Square Mile Roasters (who we all know are legitimate)

They have bought a new machine from SM that they used in their roastery and were selling (I believe this was a VA black eagle)

They had this Strada serviced at Square Mile recently

They've been a bit lazy and now they are selling.... I've seen a lot of businesses being lazy when it comes to sell old assets.

End of the day, its pay on collection, so if you're not happy on pick-up you can walk away...


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Not saying the kit itself is suspect, just that it seems a bit unusual on ebay for the price to go up by 20% when normally what you see is what you pay. I note that they do tell you this but I was not aware they were allowed to do it on ebay. If ebay states it's ok and the bidders understand and are ok with it then fine. I presume you'd get a vat invoice then, so as a business you too can claim it back?


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> Not saying the kit itself is suspect, just that it seems a bit unusual on ebay for the price to go up by 20% when normally what you see is what you pay. I note that they do tell you this but I was not aware they were allowed to do it on ebay. If ebay states it's ok and the bidders understand and are ok with it then fine. I presume you'd get a vat invoice then, so as a business you too can claim it back?


I BELIEVE you can claim back that VAT if your business is VAT registered...

It's a bit tricky for me. I only plan on buying this machine if it goes for what I think is a good market price. If I win it then I will put it into storage for a few months and when my coffee shop opens later in the year, I will then sell it onto the business and then depending on advice from my accountant will become VAT registered or not. If that makes sense?

I think as a business they are entitled to charge the VAt as they likely bought it in the same way. Obviously they hope that the winning bidder doesn't show up with the cash and not the extra for the VAT


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Hmm, I think you'll have difficulty trying that. It needs to go directly from one VAT Reg business to another. If you buy it personally, you'll have to suck up the vat. If you then sell it to your business, you can't charge vat as you're not registered - your company is, but that's likely to be a separate entity. Anyway, I'm not an accountant but I do run a small Ltd, not VAT Reg and that's what happens if I buy something on behalf of a client. Good luck with your bid.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> Hmm, I think you'll have difficulty trying that. It needs to go directly from one VAT Reg business to another. If you buy it personally, you'll have to suck up the vat. If you then sell it to your business, you can't charge vat as you're not registered - your company is, but that's likely to be a separate entity. Anyway, I'm not an accountant but I do run a small Ltd, not VAT Reg and that's what happens if I buy something on behalf of a client. Good luck with your bid.


This may be the case and I might simply have to suck up the VAT. It's a tough decision.

There is another Strada on ebay at the moment - they want £7.8k and in the ad they state that this is 6.5k + vat - so another way of listing it.

I have a maximum in my mind that I will spend on this machine. I definitely have a good chance. The thing is, i don't know if a start up coffee shop will even be VAt regiestered. Perhaps i'm doing this totally wrong. I don't really know!


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

You can register for VAT regardless of your turnover, if you want to. The upside is you can reclaim VAT on purchases. The downside is you have to submit a VAT return every quarter.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

Rob666 said:


> You can register for VAT regardless of your turnover, if you want to. The upside is you can reclaim VAT on purchases. The downside is you have to submit a VAT return every quarter.


That wouldn't be a lot of effort for my accountant i'm sure... But in the meantime, if I bought this as an individual and then resold it to another VAT registered company, i couldn't claim back the VAT i have to personally pay? Does that make sense?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Rob666 said:


> You can register for VAT regardless of your turnover, if you want to. The upside is you can reclaim VAT on purchases. The downside is you have to submit a VAT return every quarter.


You can also go on flat rate VAT where you don't claim VAT on small purchases, can claim it on certain larger purchases, charge it at 20%, and pay it at the relevant rate for your business type - retaining the difference.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I think so. Don't think you can reclaim VAT that way. OTOH You can claim the total amount paid by the company as capex.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

For clarity:

"Under Regulation 55E of VAT Regulations 1995, a business that uses the flat rate scheme is able to reclaim the VAT it has been charged on a single purchase of capital expenditure goods, if that purchase is for £2,000 or more including VAT..."

...although you can have multiple 'single purchases' over £2k.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

I already run a company for another business, and my accountant says we can just buy it through that company and vat register at a later date.

This is good news, and will probably allow me to bid a little higher to win this Strada


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Thanks guys. Somehow I've never come across this before on eBay. I suppose I must have always seen listings that are BIN with VAT added into the price?

Solution is obviously for the buyer to be VAT registered and avoid the whole situation.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

risky said:


> Thanks guys. Somehow I've never come across this before on eBay. I suppose I must have always seen listings that are BIN with VAT added into the price?
> 
> Solution is obviously for the buyer to be VAT registered and avoid the whole situation.


correct that's he solution. If I end up winning this I can retrospectively claim back the VAT when/if my business starts trading, so it's all good.

ive just spoken with them and it all seems very kosher, in fact when they mention its in storage, it's actually at Sq Mile now and she has offered me character reference and people at SM I can call. They need to sell this to pay for the black eagle they have been testing and now wanting to keep.

the other way they could charge vat (although it will increase their eBay fees) is for example selling it for 9.6k and then invoicing me £8k plus vat


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## bongo (Apr 20, 2014)

risky said:


> Thanks guys. Somehow I've never come across this before on eBay. I suppose I must have always seen listings that are BIN with VAT added into the price?
> 
> Solution is obviously for the buyer to be VAT registered and avoid the whole situation.


the most common place I've seen it is on vehicles - vans, pickups, 4x4's, anything owned by a vat registered business can be +VAT so long as they state as such in the auctions details.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

£5500 +VAT with an hour to go....

'citing!


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

and it's gone.

There's still the 2 group La Spaz for £600


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

So £5600, or £6720 if you pay VAT. Not bad.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Any news from @Stevie ?


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

Yes it was me who won it


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Nice one well done


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

I currently run a company, and it will be repurposed to a coffee shop that will start trading a bit later in the year, so I'm going to charge it to that company and claim the VAT back when the shop starts trading









In the meantime i'm going to set it up at home - but without a water filtration system i'm going to need to seek out some forum advice. I was thinking big office water jugs... I would need to know if this water was suitable to avoid filtration and run as a pure reservoir or plan B is buying a filtration system!









I'm happy with the price though, I wouldn't have gone more than another £100 higher. With the machine being recently serviced by SQ M and still at their roastery I am confident that its a good buy at this price.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Wow.

About 10l worth of boilers and 65kg.

Serious bit of kit for home use!

Is this good for single phase then?


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

NickdeBug said:


> Wow.
> 
> About 10l worth of boilers and 65kg.
> 
> ...


single phase? well tbh it won't be being used for my daily coffee, i'm currently a barista part time so i will only set it all up to practise, play around, caffeinate my street and maybe have barista friends around who want to pull some shots... it won't have proper use until in a commercial environment - but i'm happy that to my knowledge it will be Brighton's only Strada


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Single phase = 230v vs 415v I think


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Stevie said:


> single phase? well tbh it won't be being used for my daily coffee, i'm currently a barista part time so i will only set it all up to practise, play around, caffeinate my street and maybe have barista friends around who want to pull some shots... it won't have proper use until in a commercial environment - but i'm happy that to my knowledge* it will be Brighton's only Strada *


 

*
*

I think Small Batch are distributors for these, so may well use them in their coffee shops


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Congrats - great machine, and a great buy. Well done indeed!

Would need something like a 25A supply at 230V single phase - so you can't just plug it in and go...


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

MrShades said:


> Congrats - great machine, and a great buy. Well done indeed!
> 
> Would need something like a 25A supply at 230V single phase - so you can't just plug it in and go...


I see, how can I obtain what I need to make that run from the mains in my house?


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

NickdeBug said:


> [/b]
> 
> I think Small Batch are distributors for these, so may well use them in their coffee shops


They are indeed, but only use FB80s and Lineas in their shops as far as i'm aware


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Have you got a 20 amp spur?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Get an electrician in, and run a dedicated "cooker" (32A) spur (bigger, fatter wire than normal ring mains) from your consumer unit to where you need it... Don't just plug it in, it'll blow fuses.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wolf-5000w-1-x-230v-2-x-115v-13HP-4-Stroke-WPX4500-Petrol-Generator-Portable-/371305709287?hash=item56738b7ee7:g:6-oAAOSweW5VLgiN


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

For use at home..... I guess the first question will be does it have a plug on the end of the cable? If so is that plug red or blue?

If it is blue then it may be possible to utilise any unused cooker outlet you might have. If you don't have one then it may be necessary to run a temporary supply from your consumer unit to your work area. A somewhat fatter than normal extension lead using 4mm2 or even 2.5mm2 "yy" cable would do it if there is room for another circuit in the "fuse box" and that box is

If it has a red plug you may need to make adjustments inside the machine first

If there is no plug then you first need to determine how it was supplied in the past.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

grumpydaddy said:


> For use at home..... I guess the first question will be does it have a plug on the end of the cable? If so is that plug red or blue?
> 
> If it is blue then it may be possible to utilise any unused cooker outlet you might have. If you don't have one then it may be necessary to run a temporary supply from your consumer unit to your work area. A somewhat fatter than normal extension lead using "yy" cable would do it if the is room for another circuit in the "fuse box".
> 
> ...


Wow - new challenges everyday. I'll see when I pick it up what I need to do and i'll be back to pesker for advice. I'm already thinking if I should have it powder coasted black and have glass side panels


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

MrShades said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wolf-5000w-1-x-230v-2-x-115v-13HP-4-Stroke-WPX4500-Petrol-Generator-Portable-/371305709287?hash=item56738b7ee7:g:6-oAAOSweW5VLgiN


I don't want a generator?! surely theres a simpler way?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

If it is 240v and this is intended to be just temporary then with a little lateral thinking you could build a "connector box" that plugs into two sockets at once BUT the contents of the box, in particular a contactor or two, and the wiring would be critical.


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

grumpydaddy said:


> If it is 240v and this is intended to be just temporary then with a little lateral thinking you could build a "connector box" that plugs into two sockets at once BUT the contents of the box, in particular a contactor or two, and the wiring would be critical.


Im sure i have a friend whos an electrician - hopefully they will know and can sort me out, and if its going to cost a lot then i just won't use it at home for the time being...


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## Stevie (Nov 18, 2015)

looks potentially like three phase


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