# Gaggia New Baby group head leak



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Please see picture.

Had my 2012 Baby for about three months now and I noticed some limescaling on the outside of the bit which the portafilter locks into.

Rubbed it not gently with a micro fibre cloth and it came away.

Do I have some kind of leaking gasket? I have noticed some small dripping when making coffee but the pressure seems fine. Should I just replace the gasket anyway as it almost certainly hasn't been done since it was manufactured.

Seems to make coffee fine!


----------



## Craigy_bear (Mar 9, 2017)

Hey mate, aye it could be a leak from the boiler or bits attached to it. Have you opened it up or done any serviced work on it?


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Was yet on the outside of the group head is most likely a leak inside the case somewhere could be from pump or pipe work or from a failed or failing o ring best to whip it open and have a look as of left the corrosion will get worse and cause more damage internally

parts diagram here https://www.mrbean2cup.co.uk/spare-parts/gaggia/gaggia-new-baby-gaggia


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

See highlighted areas make sure the feed and return pops to tank are not linked of leaking also


----------



## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

I had the same issue, a new seal in the boiler solved it. Got all the o rings in the machine from eBay for £5, not sure if they'll last or not but so far so good


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Thanks for the replies.

I haven't had it open yet so I guess this is a job for the weekend. Dread to think what I might find but given it appears to be operating properly - hopefully just replacement of rubber!

now to find a video of how to open it up....


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Well, more photos attached!

it seems to me to be the o-ring under the boiler. I checked all the hose clamps and where the steam comes out of the boiler and it all looked dry and clean. The main leaking seems to be above where I was seeing the drips on the group body (left hand side as you look at the machine front on) although there is some at the back of the boiler and a little on the right.

@Chriss29 is this what yours looked liked?


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Other photos of the back


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

And more round the right hand side and front


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

In retrospect, I perhaps should have stepped back a touch to give some perspective. 🤣


----------



## Chriss29 (Oct 21, 2020)

Yes mine looked like this though maybe not so bad however I'm sure it'll clean up pretty well  Have you looked inside the boiler yet? Might be worth your whilst it's open


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Chriss29 said:


> Yes mine looked like this though maybe not so bad however I'm sure it'll clean up pretty well    Have you looked inside the boiler yet? Might be worth your whilst it's open


 Not yet, I wanted it put back together for some reason!

Anything I should be checking for if I do?

I guess I'll order the O-ring and then take it apart and give it a good going over. I am not particularly mechanically minded so this is somewhere between an exciting and daunting process.

how close I am to either of those extremes will depend on the result!

Thanks for your help...so far!


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

You can order just a boiler o ring but might be worth the kit as postage is more than the o rings...... also you may need some of the single use pipe clamps once the boiler is split you need to clean the mating surface of scale some descaler and some fine grit sandpaper I use 600 grit wet and dry, wet on a flat surface to polish the mating face of the boiler smooth the boiler will likely be scaled up so a good clean before reassembling


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Super stuff and thanks!

eBay the best place for parts?


----------



## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Ebay is fine. Buy a pack of gaskets for everything, including the brew group gasket. Replace the lot, and also replace all the bolts with new ones. The Zinc coating on the originals fails over time. You got them out this time, you may not next time.


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Perfect - thanks again.

Full set of gaskets and rings as well as bolts ordered.

I didn't take the bolts out so hopefully I will get them out!

Will update once I have completed the replacement. Or more likely - send photos with it in bits asking for help!

Something to do during lockdown anyway!


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Photos always useful


----------



## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Ensure the allen keys you use are the correct size and applied squarely to the bolts, failure to do this will result in the A/key slipping / camming out and making it VERY difficult to remove them. Also apply penetrating oil to the bolts and allow them to soak, wrap small pieces of K/roll or rag around bolt heads to retain oil.


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> Ensure the allen keys you use are the correct size and applied squarely to the bolts, failure to do this will result in the A/key slipping / camming out and making it VERY difficult to remove them. Also apply penetrating oil to the bolts and allow them to soak, wrap small pieces of K/roll or rag around bolt heads to retain oil.


 Thanks for the tips. I have a good set of Wera Allen keys and some WD40 so I'll ensure I do all the prep.


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

El carajillo said:


> Ensure the allen keys you use are the correct size and applied squarely to the bolts, failure to do this will result in the A/key slipping / camming out and making it VERY difficult to remove them. Also apply penetrating oil to the bolts and allow them to soak, wrap small pieces of K/roll or rag around bolt heads to retain oil.


 Or just have at it with a 12v impact driver and hope 🤷‍♂️


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Right then. Bit of advanced warning here. I hate real life blood and gore. The chestburster scene in Alien - no problems. Cyderdyne Systems Model 101 peeling the skin back to fix the motor function of its fingers - not a flinch.

However, get a cut or help one of my nephews with a wobbly tooth - no thanks. Makes my stomach turn.

why the rambling intro? Well, if you don't looking at the abused insides of an espresso machine boiler - look away now. Or at least finish your dinner.

Thes gaskets and bolts have arrived. You'll see my selection of removed bolts in my yellow, magnetised dish. The ones with black threads are those from the boiler. I will be replaced in them with new.

Rather than disconnect and replace the clamps, I unscrewed the Input Pipe Fitting and Output Steam Connecter with the pipes still attached. You'll see from the steam connector, there is some limescale deposit built up.

not quite as much as in the boiler itself though.....


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

I know disgusting right?


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Not quite sure how to fix this little mess!

all suggestions welcome!


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

JesmondJester said:


> Not quite sure how to fix this little mess!
> 
> all suggestions welcome!


 That's not too bad ! Personally wire brush the inside of boiler and group, use wet and dry paper to clean up the mating surface of boiler soaking some descaler solution for 10 mins but mechanical removal is preferable to me


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Thanks - I prefer the dry approach too if only so I don't have to remove the electrical connectors.

Surprised to hear this doesn't look to bad - looks awful to me but I know sod all. How often do you think I should take this apart and clean again in the future?

I put Puly through it when I first got it back in August. Should I do that more than once every six months or so?

Is it worth taking apart and doing this by hand descaling once a year?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Pull is a group head cleaner Will. You need too buy some Citric Acid. Can someone with a Gaggia confirm but at the back of my mind is the fact that the boilers are Aluminium and need to be treated with care. My suggestion was that since he has it stripped, make up a solution of citric cid to 50 grams to 300 pls of hot water and soak the boiler overnight. Is that too strong and is overnight too long?

Once this is fixed, the maintenance schedule is easy and quick, just doing a 20 minute descale every 3 to 6 months


----------



## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Well, there's Puly Caff (a coffee oil remover) and Puly Calc (a descaler). Just saying Puly doesn't narrow down which is in use. I'd assume from the context he meant the descaler.

Yes, the boiler part is Aluminium, and the brew head is chromed brass. I've used a variety of descalers and they've all been fine. Even if the oxide layer is removed from the aluminium, it will reform very quickly. Aluminium is actually very reactive, it's the aluminium oxide layer that forms in minutes that makes it so resilient. If you have any concerns, then wash out the boiler carefully and leave it out overnight before re-assembly. The oxide layer will definitely have formed to seal the metal away from the water by that point.

When I refurbished my Baby, I did exactly as @dfk41 suggested, left the parts soaking in a strong citric acid solution for about an hour and it all came up lovely and clean.


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Super thanks!

Yes I might try the citric acid. It has all been apart for a few days now and I've given it a half decent going over but not with anything too abrasive yet.

Then I'll try the way and dry. Leave it over night and stick all back together.

Hopefully I remember to put the new O-ring in...


----------



## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

allikat said:


> Well, there's Puly Caff (a coffee oil remover) and Puly Calc (a descaler). Just saying Puly doesn't narrow down which is in use. I'd assume from the context he meant the descaler.
> 
> Yes, the boiler part is Aluminium, and the brew head is chromed brass. I've used a variety of descalers and they've all been fine. Even if the oxide layer is removed from the aluminium, it will reform very quickly. Aluminium is actually very reactive, it's the aluminium oxide layer that forms in minutes that makes it so resilient. If you have any concerns, then wash out the boiler carefully and leave it out overnight before re-assembly. The oxide layer will definitely have formed to seal the metal away from the water by that point.
> 
> When I refurbished my Baby, I did exactly as @dfk41 suggested, left the parts soaking in a strong citric acid solution for about an hour and it all came up lovely and clean.


 @allikatAny harm in using a Dremel or similar to remove scale?


----------



## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Uncletits said:


> @allikatAny harm in using a Dremel or similar to remove scale?


 I wouldn't unless you're really really careful and using a brass brush at low speed. You don't want to scrape up the interior as the scratches will just make it easier for the scale to reform. I also advise a change of brew water. Many of us use Tesco's Ashbeck or Waitrose Lockhills still water in our espresso machines for the good mineral balance and low scale.


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Uncletits said:


> @allikatAny harm in using a Dremel or similar to remove scale?


 That's a great questions @Uncletits as my wife has a Proxxon which has some good attachments to remove it if @allikat thinks it would be suitable?


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Uncletits said:


> @allikatAny harm in using a Dremel or similar to remove scale?


 Depends what you put on the end of the tool......


----------



## Alfieboy (Dec 26, 2018)

HDAV said:


> Depends what you put on the end of the tool......


 I have 350 choices! Nothing too harsh though


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

allikat said:


> I wouldn't unless you're really really careful and using a brass brush at low speed. You don't want to scrape up the interior as the scratches will just make it easier for the scale to reform. I also advise a change of brew water. Many of us use Tesco's Ashbeck or Waitrose Lockhills still water in our espresso machines for the good mineral balance and low scale.


 Thanks @allikat I think I am going to have to do some reading on water. Not sure whether to buy bottled or do a filter that sits in the fridge. That's a whole other post though!


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Right, I have had a bit of clean up and used 600 grit on the base of the boiler assembly. It now feels very smooth. It doesn't look super clean but if it is smooth - is that enough?

a small concern is that the o-ring doesn't look big enough. It doesn't fill the gap in the group body though it does stick up further than the old one did. I assume it will squish down and this will create the seal?

Does it look big enough?

I have removed and cleaned the shower holder plate, cleaned the base of the group body and replaced the filter holder gasket.

I am tempted now to screw it all back together and reassemble but thought I'd ask for any last minute sage advice?


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Smooth enough?


----------



## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Plenty smooth enough, it should squish down a little. As long as it peeks up above the base of the brew group it should be fine. But just watch it when you first fill it, as you can always make a mistake. I know I did with my first refurb. One bolt was a little loose and steam escaped from one corner. A tweak on the bolt responsible was enough to fix it.

Did you buy replacement boiler bolts? Probably worth popping off the brew thermostat before reassembling the boiler, it's a delicate little thing and easily damaged, refit it when you're ready to put the boiler back in the machine. The steam thermostat is just as delicate, but it's in a less vulnerable spot.


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Looks good


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

allikat said:


> Plenty smooth enough, it should squish down a little. As long as it peeks up above the base of the brew group it should be fine. But just watch it when you first fill it, as you can always make a mistake. I know I did with my first refurb. One bolt was a little loose and steam escaped from one corner. A tweak on the bolt responsible was enough to fix it.
> 
> Did you buy replacement boiler bolts? Probably worth popping off the brew thermostat before reassembling the boiler, it's a delicate little thing and easily damaged, refit it when you're ready to put the boiler back in the machine. The steam thermostat is just as delicate, but it's in a less vulnerable spot.


 Yes - I got new bolts. I've clean the threads they'll screw onto as well.

There is no way to truly check the seal until everything is back in the machine and fired up is there?


----------



## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

No but a visual check will help


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Great. I guess I'll have a go later and let you know how I get on!


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Well, we're done.

Put it all back together last night, plugged it in this evening, ran a tank of water through it, then a tank with Puly Calc and then another tank. I tested the steam wand in the first tank.

Outcome is that the water seems come to through the shower screen much more evenly, the steam wand works fine and I can't see any drips on the side of the group body as happened before.

Now, do do I assume that I have done everything up tight enough and it's all good in there behind the casing or should I open her up after I run another tank through tomorrow and just check that I can't see any water?


----------



## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Ensure it gets up to temperature so you have maximum working pressure in the boiler. This means fill it, and leave it alone for half an hour, then try to pull a shot, or backflush, either works. Look for drips or steam escaping from around the join, you'll need the lid off to do that, so be very careful of the live wiring, no fingers inside the case at this point. If you see nothing, and everything works, including the 3 way solenoid, then you're good.


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

allikat said:


> Ensure it gets up to temperature so you have maximum working pressure in the boiler. This means fill it, and leave it alone for half an hour, then try to pull a shot, or backflush, either works. Look for drips or steam escaping from around the join, you'll need the lid off to do that, so be very careful of the live wiring, no fingers inside the case at this point. If you see nothing, and everything works, including the 3 way solenoid, then you're good.


 Super. Will try that later for final confirmation. Thanks!


----------



## JesmondJester (Feb 2, 2020)

Well, I finally got round to testing the Gaggia tonight (I had an email saying the Niche would arrive tomorrow so felt I had to put work aside and get it done) and fortunately there was no steam coming out of either the boiler or my ears!

A big thank you to all who have contributed to getting this £30 machine up and running like new. @allikat @HDAV @Uncletits @Craigy_bear @dfk41 @Chriss29 @El carajillo - legends one and all.

I swear the cream looked better when I did the test. Logic tells me that the pressure will have been greater because half of it wasn't leaking out of the side!

Anyway, thanks again.


----------



## Craigy_bear (Mar 9, 2017)

JesmondJester said:


> Well, I finally got round to testing the Gaggia tonight (I had an email saying the Niche would arrive tomorrow so felt I had to put work aside and get it done) and fortunately there was no steam coming out of either the boiler or my ears!
> 
> A big thank you to all who have contributed to getting this £30 machine up and running like new. @allikat @HDAV @Uncletits @Craigy_bear @dfk41 @Chriss29 @El carajillo - legends one and all.
> 
> ...


 You're welcome mate, any time


----------

