# Help what am I doing wrong pls?



## Purples (7 mo ago)

I’ve bought the sage barrista pro but I’m a bit close to sending it back as I’ve already wasted around 500g of coffee trying to sort this issue.

I watched all the dial up videos and my coffee is within the range they recommend - approx 38g/28 seconds - but it’s SO bitter.
It’s also needing to be ground at around 18 to do that and looks really fine.
It’s an Ethiopian coffee from Rave that says roasting level - 2 beans.
Any help at all pls?


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Try some darker beans


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Purples said:


> I’ve bought the sage barrista pro but I’m a bit close to sending it back as I’ve already wasted around 500g of coffee trying to sort this issue.
> 
> I watched all the dial up videos and my coffee is within the range they recommend - approx 38g/28 seconds - but it’s SO bitter.
> It’s also needing to be ground at around 18 to do that and looks really fine.
> ...


You are extracting at too low a temp. It's probably not bitter, it's likely sour and overly acidic.
The sage BP is a fairly poor machine, I had one for a few months and it was the worst machine I have owned. 

It never gets up to temp as you can't leave it on standby and warm it up because of the silly thermojet. 

You need to pull 4-5 blank shots to even get it close to temp. 

Plus the grinder can't handle anything less than medium, it certainly can't handle those beans.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

MartinB said:


> Try some darker beans


Weirdly that’s exactly what I did before posting this as I wondered if it could be that! Fingers crossed. Thanks


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

TomHughes said:


> You are extracting at too low a temp. It's probably not bitter, it's likely sour and overly acidic.
> The sage BP is a fairly poor machine, I had one for a few months and it was the worst machine I have owned.
> 
> It never gets up to temp as you can't leave it on standby and warm it up because of the silly thermojet.
> ...


Aaah ok that would make sense! Oh dear at worst you’ve owned. Is there something better around the same price point pls? Im trying to save my £5 per day costa habit lol


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

Purples said:


> Aaah ok that would make sense! Oh dear at worst you’ve owned. Is there something better around the same price point pls? Im trying to save my £5 per day costa habit lol


Sorry last q, when you say the grinder can’t handle the beans? What does this mean pls


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

There will be limits with the machine but they probably won’t be holding you back yet - keep plugging away and you should be able to outdo costa!

There is a wealth of information on here and hundreds of “my first machine how do I make espresso” threads for you to read through and find the hints and techniques you need to improve.

Good luck and keep trying towards the end of your returns period before you make a decision!


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

rob177palmer said:


> There will be limits with the machine but they probably won’t be holding you back yet - keep plugging away and you should be able to outdo costa!
> 
> There is a wealth of information on here and hundreds of “my first machine how do I make espresso” threads for you to read through and find the hints and techniques you need to improve.
> 
> Good luck and keep trying towards the end of your returns period before you make a decision!


Thanks - yea I’ve spent hours reading, more like weeks! Done everything instructed which is why I posted- I think it may be as suggested as they’re a lighter roast bean. If that’s what the 2/5 bean symbol means!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Purples said:


> Aaah ok that would make sense! Oh dear at worst you’ve owned. Is there something better around the same price point pls? Im trying to save my £5 per day costa habit lol



That is a tough question! And the reason I held on to mine for longer than I should.

Luckily I only paid £450 for mine and was able to sell on at a good price. 

I have written extensively on here about the Sage, so I am not going to rehash that.

I had the duo temp pro, the Barista Express and the Pro, and the BE was hands down the best. The machine itself, as it could actually get to temp. 

There is very little in the price range, I now have a La Pavoni Euro and a modded classic. 

The pro is fine if you can get it to temp by running lots of water through it and you are good with medium to dark roasts. 

The grinder is just not good, it has tiny conical burrs and produces an ok drink from a darker roast. But anything light and it really struggles. 

Personally. I would get a duo-temp pro and a decent hand-grinder like the JX Pro from EZPRESSO, or the Niche if your budget can stretch.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

TomHughes said:


> That is a tough question! And the reason I held on to mine for longer than I should.
> 
> Luckily I only paid £450 for mine and was able to sell on at a good price.
> 
> ...


Thanks -
Oh wow so the duo-temp is better than the pro? All the reviews online say other? Such a minefield!


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Purples said:


> Thanks -
> Oh wow so the duo-temp is better than the pro? All the reviews online say other? Such a minefield!


What I was more meaning was that it would be better to have a stand alone machine and a separate grinder as the inbuilt one is the severe limiter in that machine.

Most of those reviews are probably written by people who don't know good coffee and/or are into darker roasts.

So it's your choice. But for me I'd get a DTP as it's a very capable espresso machine, and pair it with a higher quality grinder.

Alternatively, keep your BP for a while, use medium to dark roasts, forget about it and then if you decide you want something better upgrade the whole thing to something like a Lelit Mara X etc.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

So off the back of this I’ve just temp checked with 2 thermometers and even after 5/6 blanks it’s barely hitting 70. That can’t be right surely?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Purples said:


> So off the back of this I’ve just temp checked with 2 thermometers and even after 5/6 blanks it’s barely hitting 70. That can’t be right surely?


Where are you measuring the temp and what with?

That sounds about right, and is the major issue the 'upgrade not an upgrade' thermojet. 

You can never get it all fully heated up. 

The best I ever got was 89C, barely ok for darker roasts, this was with lots of shots (using a restricted basket so the water had to travel back into the solenoid) and measuring with a rapid thermometer stuck into the PF spout.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

TomHughes said:


> Where are you measuring the temp and what with?
> 
> That sounds about right, and is the major issue the 'upgrade not an upgrade' thermojet.
> 
> ...


Just a couple of liquid thermometers I have. Might be a few degrees off although both read the same, but water from kettle reads correct temp


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

I've just got one of these machines recently having sold my previous set up a while ago (R58 and Niche).

I'd agree with a lot of what has been said before but I can definitely make decent coffee with it with medium roasts. I also don't bother with the faff of flushing it to heat it up.
This machine isn't like an E61 so my feeling is its better to work with it than against it. They've designed it in a certain way and I use it in that way. Is it ideal for extracting espresso, no but it works well enough.

As for your bitter shots are you weighing the ground coffee in the portafilter, not just the output? If not then your ratio could be miles out. Also mine is grinding at 4, I haven't adjusted the top burr settings from factory.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

GingerBen said:


> I've just got one of these machines recently having sold my previous set up a while ago (R58 and Niche).
> 
> I'd agree with a lot of what has been said before but I can definitely make decent coffee with it with medium roasts. I also don't bother with the faff of flushing it to heat it up.
> This machine isn't like an E61 so my feeling is its better to work with it than against it. They've designed it in a certain way and I use it in that way. Is it ideal for extracting espresso, no but it works well enough.
> ...


yea all weighed, I tried at 4 and with this beans nothing came through. I have to be up at 16/17 so around halfway to get the times needed. But the temp would explain why it’s maybe gross? It could be sour, it’s an awful need a drink and have to go washmouth taste


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Purples said:


> yea all weighed, I tried at 4 and with this beans nothing came through. I have to be up at 16/17 so around halfway to get the times needed. But the temp would explain why it’s maybe gross? It could be sour, it’s an awful need a drink and have to go washmouth taste


Must just be that it's too light then and it can't extract it properly. Grind setting probably isn't comparable from one machine to another but that is a big difference. At 18 mine would flow like there was nothing in the basket I'd imagine. 

Can only suggest a medium to darker roast, something like an espresso blend for example to see how that goes. An easy to extract South American bean roasted for espresso maybe.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

GingerBen said:


> Must just be that it's too light then and it can't extract it properly. Grind setting probably isn't comparable from one machine to another but that is a big difference. At 18 mine would flow like there was nothing in the basket I'd imagine.
> 
> Can only suggest a medium to darker roast, something like an espresso blend for example to see how that goes. An easy to extract South American bean roasted for espresso maybe.


yea that’s what I’ve ordered, I’m just a bit concerned about the temp now though…


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## GingerBen (Sep 7, 2017)

Purples said:


> yea that’s what I’ve ordered, I’m just a bit concerned about the temp now though…


Give it a go and see what happens. If its still no good send it back. I won't be keeping mine for long but it does the job. Yours might be faulty if the temps are that low.
Hope you get something sorted either way.


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## Purples (7 mo ago)

Anyone any info about the gaggia classic pro versus the duo pls?


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