# Which bean to cup machine? (Delonghi or Sage by Heston Blumenthal)



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

I'm torn between two at the moment DELONGHI - Magnifica S ECAM 22.320.SB or the Sage by Heston Blumenthal the Barista Express Coffee Machine and Grinder. There is about £200 difference between the two, it will be my first ever bean to coffee machine. Has anyone had either of these? Views/opinions on them?

Thanks


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

The Sage Barista Express is not actually a Bean-2-cup machine, but a grinder and coffee machine housed in the same unit. You still have to do some of the work yourself (tamp etc).

The Delonghi is what is known as a super automatic in that all you have to do is feed with beans and water, put a cup under a spout and press a button.

You will get a much better espresso from the Sage machine as the grinder, whilst not amazing, will be streets ahead of the one in the Delonghi. I have not used super-autos much, but when I have I found the resulting cup tended to be a bit thin and weak. i would probably put pod systems like Nespresso ahead of them in terms of quality unless you are spending big bucks.

Milk steaming is also likely to be better with the Sage machine.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The Sage machine is better, no question about it.

What about a Duo Temp Pro and a separate Sage Smart Grinder Pro? The Barista express has a couple of extra features but having separate units means you can upgrade one or the other if the desire so takes you and your grinder is easier to clean and the beans wont suffer from warming up in the grinder as its attached to the main unit.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

Thanks for the reply I appreciate it. I'll take a look at that Dylan, the only reason I was looking at a bean to cup was someone suggested I get one at work as I spend about £10 a day on coffee and he said it would be nice and easy. I've literally only just started hearing about separate grinders and what now. I saw a rancilio and rocky bundle that seemed good but I know nothing about this so I'll check out your recommendation too. Thanks both.


----------



## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Rancillio and Rocky bundle would be far better IMHO as you can upgrade the grinder at a later date if needed - then upgrade the machine. Silvia's are good machines and better than a Gaggia Classic, but not as an upgrade from. Personally I'd find a bean to cup machine a bit limiting; good for garages (Costa Express for eg - at least the beans are freshly ground compared to coffee shops) and other self serve places. I don't know how long B2C machines last either, as when one bit goes wrong the lot is knackered.

Brewed is a good alternative for the workplace. A handgrinder grinds quite fast on a coarser setting, coupled with a coffee-dripper, V60 or Chemex and you'll have a small set-up that only needs a kettle.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

Ok thanks all I appreciate that







I guess bean to cup isn't what I want any more I want to learn how to make some decent coffees and what not.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Not exactly.......

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/melitta-varianza-bean-to-cup-2558.html

Davec has reviewed this and it makes great reading. These machines offer things other BTC simply do not


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> Not exactly.......
> 
> https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/melitta-varianza-bean-to-cup-2558.html
> 
> Davec has reviewed this and it makes great reading. These machines offer things other BTC simply do not


That looks and sounds awesome. What's the difference though between this and the TS? They are both roughly the same price.

Thanks


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

iGenie said:


> That looks and sounds awesome. What's the difference though between this and the TS? They are both roughly the same price.
> 
> Thanks


Link to the machine that's roughly the same price, then we can look and tell you what we know, if anything.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Link to the machine that's roughly the same price, then we can look and tell you what we know, if anything.


So the CSP linked (https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/melitta-varianza-bean-to-cup-2558.html)

and

https://www.redber.co.uk/collections/home-bean-to-cup-coffee-machines/products/melitta-caffeo-barista-tsp-stainless-steel-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine

And?

https://www.redber.co.uk/collections/home-bean-to-cup-coffee-machines/products/melitta-caffeo-barista-ts-black-bean-to-cup-coffee-machine

I think one of these machines is the one I'm going to get I just don't know which one. Thanks for your help mate.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

"Imagine sipping a delicious cup of coffee with 3 cm of crema on top"

Yuk! Crema doesn't actually taste very nice


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

iGenie said:


> I think one of these machines is the one I'm going to get I just don't know which one. Thanks for your help mate.


Unless you have a pressing need for the Barista TS e.g. height issues, or need a water tank that's 0.7 litre larger (because filling the smaller Varianza tank with a jug only takes a second or 2 and you don't have to remove the tank). *Then the cheaper Varianza is where the smart money should go when choosing between the 2 machines.* The Varianza is also much easier if you choose to use Puly Cafe powder for the machine cleaning cycle, as it has a remove brew group and place tablet in chamber option, the Barista doesn't and you have to throw the tablet down the ground coffee hatch, tricky to do with powder (you have to use a wide tube straw and funnel to get cleaning powder in there).

The Varianza has all the recipies you need, the Barista menu has more in terms of 4 users, but it's a bit confusing, I also rather like the buttons of the Varianza as opposed to the touch interface of the Barista.

Don't be fooled by the stainless steel thermos jug on some versions of the Barista...it's worse than useless if you think about it.. You want to be able to see the level of milk and at home simply keep the clear plastic one full of milk in the fridge. With the thermos one, milk level is a mystery.

The reviews I did for Bella Barista are here, they were independent reviews done to see if BB wanted to stock them or not....so they are accurate with no punches pulled. Also look at the tech tour videos as well. I have the Varianza on the counter for long term test, have done over 650 cups on it so far and still think it's the best value for money, with no compromise on performance/beverage quality (same system internally). To clean the brew system I use puly cafe and for the milk system cleaning cycle, a very small amount of little dishwasher liquid diluted well in water. So I have never used the supplied solutions/tablets, but I assume they work well.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/melitta-caffeo-varianza-csp/

P.S. I forgot to mention although the Barista has 2 hoppers for 2 beans, it can be a slight pain if you

try and program them to different users and/or want to keep swapping. The varianza system (my bean select) where you can at any time lift the scoop, fill it with whatever bean you want and make a cup just with that bean is brilliant. e.g. if you want a decaff, no need to have half a hopper full just in case. IMO far more practical than the twin hopper and ground only coffee hatch system of the Barista.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> snip


Thank you very much for taking the time for such a detailed response mate, I really do appreciate it. I'll have a proper read of your review as I seemed to have missed it from the original page I looked so thank you. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but all water we use in my house is distilled, the kettle we have had for the last 3 years looks brand new inside so I'm hoping this would mean less cleaning required. Looks like you might have saved me some money. Thank you mate, I'll take a read now


----------



## martinierius (Sep 28, 2014)

Would the melitta caffeo solo be the equivalent version for black coffee in comparison to thé varianza? I know some machines share the same grinder, Brew group etc.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

martinierius said:


> Would the melitta caffeo solo be the equivalent version for black coffee in comparison to thé varianza? I know some machines share the same grinder, Brew group etc.


I honestly don't know, I didn't review/test that one. Just the Varianza and the Barista...plus of course other big manufacturers, which did not meet the standards (by a long way) I set for what I consider acceptable, but I can't mention them by name for fear of being sued.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

iGenie said:


> but all water we use in my house is distilled


If you don't mind me asking how do you distil your water for home use?

Do you re-introduce some of the minerals?


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

iGenie said:


> Thank you very much for taking the time for such a detailed response mate, I really do appreciate it. I'll have a proper read of your review as I seemed to have missed it from the original page I looked so thank you. I'm not sure if it makes a difference but all water we use in my house is distilled, the kettle we have had for the last 3 years looks brand new inside so I'm hoping this would mean less cleaning required. Looks like you might have saved me some money. Thank you mate, I'll take a read now


You're in Surrey Hampshire? I'm in Byfleet, if you're ever passing, feel free to come in and try out the Varianza.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

pessutojr said:


> If you don't mind me asking how do you distil your water for home use?
> 
> Do you re-introduce some of the minerals?


 Hi mate, I'll have to get the names of what we use but we have one machine which distils I think 4 litres of water and then another machine which "filters it" but re introduces minerals in to it. It's awesome, it's on pretty much 24/7 for a hour of 3.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> You're in Surrey Hampshire? I'm in Byfleet, if you're ever passing, feel free to come in and try out the Varianza.


I do mate, not too far from you! Do you mean like come to your home or do you have a shop? I might have to take you up on that offer as I'd love to try one before I bought one. Thank you for the kind offer mate.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> Unless you have a pressing need for the Barista TS e.g. height issues, or need a water tank that's 0.7 litre larger (because filling the smaller Varianza tank with a jug only takes a second or 2 and you don't have to remove the tank). *Then the cheaper Varianza is where the smart money should go when choosing between the 2 machines.* The Varianza is also much easier if you choose to use Puly Cafe powder for the machine cleaning cycle, as it has a remove brew group and place tablet in chamber option, the Barista doesn't and you have to throw the tablet down the ground coffee hatch, tricky to do with powder (you have to use a wide tube straw and funnel to get cleaning powder in there).
> 
> The Varianza has all the recipies you need, the Barista menu has more in terms of 4 users, but it's a bit confusing, I also rather like the buttons of the Varianza as opposed to the touch interface of the Barista.
> 
> ...


 I had a re read of this, so if you had £800 to spent on a machine you would still go with the Varianza? Gotta keep my eyes peeled for Good Friday deals today, as have managed to with Quidco and stuff be able to get a new one for around £550.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

iGenie said:


> I had a re read of this, so if you had £800 to spent on a machine you would still go with the Varianza? Gotta keep my eyes peeled for Good Friday deals today, as have managed to with Quidco and stuff be able to get a new one for around £550.


I can answer that one as well. If I had £800 to spend and wanted a one shop solution, then yes. I am old school and quite enjoy the manual preparation of making a coffee, but it takes time and effort to learn to do this. Even if I get to the stage where I might be able to drink coffee again, I would still probably have this one as it is just so convenient. The truth is, this machine is going to make a consistently better cuppa than many people think they make the traditional way.

You are lucky living near Dave. He is probably the most influential coffee person in the UK from a design perspective


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

iGenie said:


> I do mate, not too far from you! Do you mean like come to your home or do you have a shop? I might have to take you up on that offer as I'd love to try one before I bought one. Thank you for the kind offer mate.


My home...I have no shop, I'm not in business or anything like that. oh and yes If I had 800 to spend, I would still buy the cheaper Varianza.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> I can answer that one as well. If I had £800 to spend and wanted a one shop solution, then yes. I am old school and quite enjoy the manual preparation of making a coffee, but it takes time and effort to learn to do this. Even if I get to the stage where I might be able to drink coffee again, I would still probably have this one as it is just so convenient. The truth is, this machine is going to make a consistently better cuppa than many people think they make the traditional way.
> 
> You are lucky living near Dave. He is probably the most influential coffee person in the UK from a design perspective


Hey mate, I actually just read your thread, happy birthday for yesterday I think it was! That's good to know, literally it was only a few weeks ago I decided to do something like this, spending £5-10 a day is killing me and in the long run this seems like a great idea. Like you said realistically I don't have the time currently to practice and become good at making coffee so the BTC solution seems ideal and this machine sounds great! I didn't know that about Dave but I loved his review on the machine











DavecUK said:


> My home...I have no shop, I'm not in business or anything like that. oh and yes If I had 800 to spend, I would still buy the cheaper Varianza.


 Ahhhh ok mate I didn't know that haha







Ok that's good to know mate, thank you again for your time, help and offer I do appreciate it.


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

DavecUK said:


> *No there is no way I reviewed all the BTC machines on the market, but I know my coffee machines and remember if you can't find a review on a BTC machine, it's either because I didn't review it, or I looked at it and found it wanting... *
> 
> *
> The two machines I liked (one has a review and the other I'm producing a review) are the Melitta Machines, Caffeo Varianza and Caffeo Barista TS. The reviews are in the link below....as will be all new reviews I do for BB (for any products).*


 Hi mate, I found this post by you, I read that Varianza review but can't see the Barista TS review on your site unless I'm being an idiot. I'm determined I'm getting one tomorrow as some sites seem to already have good black Friday deals... It's hard because I know nothing on the subject so I'm pretty much taking your word on which one is better but I loved your review so would like to have read the other. I'm a PC geek and generally the more you pay the better something is (well normally) so getting my head around the cheaper machine being better is hard but like I said this is your field not mine so I trust you haha


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

do not be fooled by price alone. you need to buy from a coffee retailer who has a decent warranty. A lot of coffee machines, the warranty is not supplied via the retailer, which makes it a nightmare if something goes wrong. Thats where BB and the like come into their own. The 2 year warranty is supplied by them. It is £625 at BB and £599 the cheapest I can see it with a quick look. £26 for 2 years peace of mind


----------



## iGenie (Nov 16, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> do not be fooled by price alone. you need to buy from a coffee retailer who has a decent warranty. A lot of coffee machines, the warranty is not supplied via the retailer, which makes it a nightmare if something goes wrong. Thats where BB and the like come into their own. The 2 year warranty is supplied by them


Ahhh so if something goes wrong I'd have to go directly to the manufacturers? I was looking at redber or ao.com as they are slightly cheaper but based on what you said will take a look at BB.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am not trying to alarm you. The two you mention are what we call box shifters. I might be wrong but I think any warranty problems will not be sorted out by them, although they might well act as a link. Bb will open your machine up, run it and test it before sending out and as said, if you have a warranty issue, you deal with them and they sort it out


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

iGenie said:


> Hi mate, I found this post by you, I read that Varianza review but can't see the Barista TS review on your site unless I'm being an idiot. I'm determined I'm getting one tomorrow as some sites seem to already have good black Friday deals... It's hard because I know nothing on the subject so I'm pretty much taking your word on which one is better but I loved your review so would like to have read the other. I'm a PC geek and generally the more you pay the better something is (well normally) so getting my head around the cheaper machine being better is hard but like I said this is your field not mine so I trust you haha


oh I have not got round to writing it yet, but it will be short and sweet along the lines of what I have already told you....assthe machines are essentially the same as far as the coffee brewing mechanism and taste are concerned. Personally i think the Varianza is all you need to spend....unless you have a height issue, because the Barista is a bit lower overall total height.

BB do price match and they have a really good reputation. It's also fair to say that the UK prosumer coffee scene is that much richer and better since they entered the market. Before there were few retailers, little choice and high prices. BB started as a retailer of commercial machines among other things, moved into the prosumer market and a few years ago moved into roasting their own coffee. They have experience and backup, plus engineers!!

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/price-match/


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Oops, tapped wrong button!


----------

