# Recommend me a machine for life



## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

I am ready to step out of my Gaggia Classic and into something I can use for a very long time. Criteria below

- Strong brand with good long term parts availability

- Dual boiler preferably. May consider HX

- PID control and adjustable brew temp

- Rotary pump preferably

- Not fussed on plumb in or tank

- As few buttons and lights as possible

- Prefer levers, switches, gauges and knobs

- It needs to look good!

Ideally something like Brewtus or Domobar in terms of appearance. I used a Vivaldi the other day and I liked it a lot but I don't like the look of it. I'm happy to shell out for something expensive as long as it lasts me a long time (easily serviced) and it looks the bit- always handy to have a good conversation starter on the bar.

Before anyone asks I have a SJ which I have been using for a while now. As far as I am concerned I will keep this grinder for life and I consider it very good value.


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

Oh and as far as duty goes it needs to regularly do 4 doubles but capable of a small party so 10 shots in 10 mins or so.


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Giotto-Evoluzione.html


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

To tick most of your boxes you're probably looking at an Izzo Alex Duetto:

- Great brand

- Dual boiler

- Rotary pump

- Can switch between plumb or tank

- Not many buttons or lights (apart from the PID)

- Lovely e61 lever action brew control

- Looks great!


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

Both very nice machines thanks a lot. I'll spend some time checking out reviews later


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Only thing I would say in Vibe pumps defence - cheap and easy to replace


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

Ok I better refresh myself with the vibe vs rotary debate.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Evoluzione is on my shopping list for the near future and gets my vote.


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

It's a hx machine isn't it?


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Most important thing... what's your budget?


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## dogday38 (Feb 15, 2012)

If money was not an issue at all i would head straight for an olympia cremina, but I'm not sure if its a shot a minute type of deal. failing that i could definitely get by with a rocket cellini, until one of those days arrive i will just keep poring over.


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

Viernes said:


> Most important thing... what's your budget?


Whatever needs to be spent really. If its a robust machine and a good brand that can be be serviced for many years to come a £2k machine is suddenly fairly good value.


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

So what is the general consensus on the Expobar Leva/Brewtus dual boiler? I am disregarding the common parroting that the 'build quality isn't as good as the Italian machines' because it seems largely unfounded and too often quoted by those who haven't even seen the machine. I appreciate that it isnt as pretty as the Alex or Evoluzione but it's not exactly ugly either.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

lukevl said:


> So what is the general consensus on the Expobar Leva/Brewtus dual boiler? I am disregarding the common parroting that the 'build quality isn't as good as the Italian machines' because it seems largely unfounded and too often quoted by those who haven't even seen the machine. I appreciate that it isnt as pretty as the Alex or Evoluzione but it's not exactly ugly either.


send me a PM with any questions about the Brewtus, Ive had mine for 12 months


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Have to say I like the look of the expobar and a dual boiler machine for around grand you can't go wrong really, I'm looking at machines myself now, depends on what I get when I finish fixing the M31. My current choices are in the price bracket Simonelli Musica, Expobar and possibly fracino cherub. (even if I did just see someone murder a capp when using it)


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

You've watched the myespresso video on the cherub then! The sad thing is that for most people that would be their expectation of a cappuccino.

I think it comes down to whether you want a double boiler or a hx, but as a lot of people will point out - there aren't really any bad machines around that price point.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

That video really is bad. I have had a Cherub for around 6 months after upgrading from a Gaggia Baby Class. Feel free to PM me if you would like to know more or have any questions.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I've had a cherub for 5 days lol but I can't see myself upgrading for a long long time.

Steam power is hectic, more than you'd ever need.

I was told there is a mod you can do to the cherub to reduce the pressure stat dead band which greatly improves recovery if you need to make for than 2-3 drinks in a minute lol.

Also the price is very appealing.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

yes I noticed they also disabled comments for it, I wouldn't have been able to help myself, I hate the sound of milk dying and I'm not even going there on his dosing. A friend of mine is the regional distributor for fracino so I may be able to sweet talk him, although the double boiler is tempting and I have been working on an appia for a year so have a lot of love for the simonelli, the appias steam power was crazy so I''ve no fear of a powerful steam wand anymore. It will just be a time and decision making process, just wish it was easy to get to machines and have a play as then you'd know for certain.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Expobar with PID might just have swayed me the basket needs to be a 58 though


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

The expobar is a 58mm portafilter but won't fit bottomless portafilters from classics etc as the lugs are different. You won't be disappointed though I'm sure.

The best place to try out lots of machines is at Bella barista but that would be quite a trek south for you!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

just needs to fit my vst 18g


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Just spotted the Izzo Alex duetto mk III, this could get expensive.


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## lukevl (Oct 20, 2010)

Is it wrong that I dislike the Cherub purely because of the myespresso vid?!









Brewtus is looking particularly popular for me now. Thanks for the info Gary.


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

geordie-barista said:


> Just spotted the Izzo Alex duetto mk III, this could get expensive.


The Duetto is a monster! Although one minor thing that I think would bug me is that there isn't as much clearance under the group as most other e61 machines - due to the fact that they fitted an enormous drip tray. Most of my cups are small but for some reason the gf always prefers coffee in a proper mug. Probably not a problem for most people but I could see it being a bit annoying sometimes.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Haha I just thought it was me that saw that video and cringed. I'm no expert, but it looked like horrible under dosing, and milk that I cold have blown smaller bubbles in with a straw. You should see the other vid of his, where he talks about dialling in a grinder based on how long it takes for liquid to appear from the portafilter. This being his only measure. Not dose measuring, not timing the whole shot, nope. Just the wait for first pour.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have had an Expobar Leva for nearly 3 years. It is the newer model to the Brewtus. It has never missed a beat. It has a bottomless pf that I bought from BB. It also comes with a PID as standard but I have never changed the temp in the time I have had it. Bella Barrista have an array of machines and if you contact them, they will set the ones up for you side by side to test if you want to.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

Machine for life? The Londinium I


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

But what does the Londinium 1 do, that dozens of others machines don't do just as well, and are more cost efficient to buy? I have had various lever machines over the years. None as fine as this I agree, but on the whole they are a pain! Levers are fine if you are a purest, but do they actually bring anything to the table?


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> But what does the Londinium 1 do, that dozens of others machines don't do just as well, and are more cost efficient to buy? I have had various lever machines over the years. None as fine as this I agree, but on the whole they are a pain! Levers are fine if you are a purest, but do they actually bring anything to the table?


 The problems people associate with lever machines are usually with small machines like the Pavoni where temperature stability is a real issue. That is not the case with the Londinium I which has a full size commercial group and a very well engineered thermosiphon - temperature stability, steaming power, ease of use is equal to any machine at this price level, and in no way would you want to call it a 'pain'. What lever fans will tell you is that the coffee simply tastes better - the usual explanation is that the lever driven piston naturally reduces temperature and pressure as extraction progresses which helps to get the very best out of the coffee. Certainly the coffee I get out of the Londinium tastes very good indeed. In addition, the simplicity of a lever machine means there is a lot less to go wrong (and the original request was for a 'machine for life').

In the end, if you are shopping around at this price level I guess it comes down whether you prefer the charm and simplicity of a lever or the ability to tweak the electronic controls on a dual boiler machine.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks Rolo. I guessed the answer would be along those lines. If, and when I upgrade, I am fairly certain it would be to a machine of that sort. Do you think a Gaggia Classic user can jump straight to that though, or should they go for a halfway house? I wonder if there are any members near to Newcastle who have a Londinium 1? I would love to see one in action!

Could I ask a favour. Could you give me the maximum height measurement with the lever extended? I am lucky enough to have 2 suitable locations, of which one is under a kitchen cupboard and the other has no height restriction at all.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> Thanks Rolo. I guessed the answer would be along those lines. If, and when I upgrade, I am fairly certain it would be to a machine of that sort. Do you think a Gaggia Classic user can jump straight to that though, or should they go for a halfway house? I wonder if there are any members near to Newcastle who have a Londinium 1? I would love to see one in action!
> 
> Could I ask a favour. Could you give me the maximum height measurement with the lever extended? I am lucky enough to have 2 suitable locations, of which one is under a kitchen cupboard and the other has no height restriction at all.


 I went from a Gaggia Classic to an Olympia Cremina. The difference was considerable. The Londinium, although much bigger than a Cremina, is easier to operate - once it's warmed up, it keeps its temperature, you don't to wait for it to cool down before you top up the boiler (the Cremina boiler is like a car radiator - undo the cap when it's hot and you'll get steaming spurting in your face) and it has massive steaming power.

I would say with any prosumer machine in the £1000+ range, whether it's HX, dual boiler or lever, it's much easier to get consistent results than with a smaller machine (and easier to steam milk). The same basic principles apply - good fresh beans ground correctly to give you an extraction time of around 25 seconds. What the bigger machines give you is consistency of temperature, the ability to pull a lot of shots in succession with the same results and steam power.

Height to the top of the case is 320mm, the top of the lever is about 370mm above that.


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## iroko (Nov 9, 2012)

Hi dfk41 the height is about 740cm, I,ve just got the L I and I'm loving It, I cant see any reason to go halfway house, Its so easy to use, It just takes time to dial in

the grinder.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

On the subject of ease of use, here's a report on Home-Barista from a guy comparing the Londinium I to his La Marzocco GS/3 (which retails for £5000).

http://www.home-barista.com/levers/owner-experience-with-londinium-i-t23770-610.html#p281570

"Very good shots and done pretty easily. Now I can get great shots with the GS/3 but it requires much more tweaking with the temp, pressure and preinfusion... The L-I seems perfect to me to be able to achieve that great taste in a machine that is rock solid simple with very little maintenance."

Which confirms my point that, contrary to popular belief, a good lever machine needs a lot less fiddling than a pump machine.


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