# Well made and repairable?



## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Hello everyone.

I have just acquired a taste for espresso whilst on holiday.

On returning home I started watching youtube videos and realised that the coffee world is big one. I would like a home machine to make espresso for myself but I hate machines that are all plastic and have to be thrown away when they break.

I'll illustrate this point with my choice of toaster, a dualit classic, which I have had for a couple of decades. I chose the dualit toaster because of it's build and most importantly, the fact that parts are available and it is easy to repair. Not much has changed in the design for a very long time.

I don't mind buying used if it means a being able to afford an overall better machine and I don't have to have the latest in fashion, but I do want solid build and to be able to repair it (like my toaster) if need be.

Any advice and suggestions welcome.

Many thanks


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

My first thought was for a La Pavoni Lever

My second was a Fracino.

The former as it is quite simple, the latter because it is made in UK so parts should be easy to get if needed

For a while now the solidly built and pretty reliable Mazzer Super Jolly has been a favourite grinder here on the forums. This too is very repairable.

These suggestions are perhaps not at the bottom end of spending on a "beginners setup" simply because all are capable of producing very good coffee quite easily after you learn how

I have spent even more but on higher end gear still but my thinking is similar to yours on this and I too have Dualit Toasters


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Evening and welcome

If you fancy something that is simple and lasts for decades there are a couple of manual levers which you will be able to see once you get a couple more posts under your belt. One is a La Pavoni in excellent condition for its age and the other a Gaggia "tin hat" / "tin man" G106 both for reasonable money given condition / serviced etc.

Don't forget the grinder though and would suggest a read of what can I get for my money in the grinder section of the forum, for decent quality espresso budget for grinder often needs to be higher than the machine.

How much is your budget and maybe we can give you a steer?

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

p.s. think of the La Pavoni / Gaggia G106 in the same way you would your toaster, easy repairable and last for decades









John


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

There are always new and exciting (and genuine) machines and grinders popping up on the For Sale thread (which you can view when you've gained a few more posts).

Have you set a budget . . .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

tAClue said:


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I have just acquired a taste for espresso whilst on holiday.
> 
> ...


The first question is budget for machine and grinder?


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Only just realized I'll need a grinder too so thanks for that all.

I am liking the look of the La Pavoni lever machine of which there seem to be a good choice used, so if I were to aim for one of those or similar, I would also need a grinder capable of not letting the side down.

Thanks for all the replies so far.


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Apologies to those asking for my budget. I hadn't set one as I had no idea what to expect, however I would rather spend a few hundred getting something worthwhile used than rush in and buy rubbish new. If a few hundred won't get me what I need straight away then I will probably buy in stages putting the main machine aside in cupboard until I have a grinder also. I really was not prepared for this amount of beautiful machinery to choose from.

Thanks again for helpful suggestions and advice.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Get that remortgage ready pal - it's a slippery slope ;-)


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Get that remortgage ready pal - it's a slippery slope ;-)


I am already getting worried..........


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Get that remortgage ready pal - it's a slippery slope ;-)


A slippery slope indeed, but very worth the slide.


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

My head is spinning....La Pavoni, Gaggia classic, Silvia even Breville have all caught my eye. Even a small delonghi caught my eye. New prices, used bargains, upgrades and mods for various machines.............though it is all very interesting


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## Lilybell2 (May 1, 2017)

If you're looking for something known for its longevity and is repairable as well, I would suggest you cross Breville off your list. (Mine, given proper care and maintenance, lasted a mere 17 months.)


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

I am currently trying to compare the pros and cons of the Gaggia Classic (earlier ones are better?) and the Rancilio Silvia V2

I know they both command a loyal following but is there a general consensus as to which is better made? Is it true that the Silvia has a cast iron frame? I believe that spares are readily available for both. Both have remained relatively unchanged for years?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

quality of coffee very close - silva is a rare beasty, while classic is accessible.



tAClue said:


> I am currently trying to compare the pros and cons of the Gaggia Classic (earlier ones are better?) and the Rancilio Silvia V2
> 
> I know they both command a loyal following but is there a general consensus as to which is better made? Is it true that the Silvia has a cast iron frame? I believe that spares are readily available for both. Both have remained relatively unchanged for years?


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## 2971 (May 7, 2012)

I think I have the same mentality as the OP, and I definitely have the same toaster.

In a similar vein, my grinder is an HGOne, which I find it hard to imagine breaking down. My coffee machine is a 2003 Cremina, which will probably keep going for as long as parts exist.


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## Norvin (Sep 10, 2014)

I have the same mentality (and toaster) too.

I would suggest that you start with a Classic or Silvia. Both are capable, Silvia is slightly better made but more expensive. Both benefit greatly from a PID mod. Provided that you don't pay silly prices, you are unlikely to lose much, if any, money when you come to sell at upgrade time.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

tAClue said:


> I know they both command a loyal following but is there a general consensus as to which is better made?


The silvia is better made using better componants than the gaggia.

There is a graph somewhere that shows the drop in temparature over a 60ml shot woth a thermocouple in the portafilter of each machine.

In the silvia it drops by 2 degrees. Iirc

In the gaggia it drops by 8 degrees. Iirc

Thats the in your cup difference

This is due to the much smaller boiler in the classic filling up with cold water during the shot. As a percentage there is a marked difference because the silvias boiler is so much bigger the water temp in the boiler isnt so affected.

Also consider, boiler of classic is alumininium, boiler of silvia is brass. Aluminium is not desirable.









https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?26660&p=350258#post350258


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'll Say what I always say in these circumstances having owned a silvia I would not recommend one at new prices, second hand older models aren't easily repairable. So honestly I'd look elsewhere.


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'll Say what I always say in these circumstances having owned a silvia I would not recommend one at new prices, second hand older models aren't easily repairable. So honestly I'd look elsewhere.


I watched a video on youtube showing the insides of a Silvia which looked quite straight forward, is it difficult to repair because of parts availability?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

tAClue said:


> I watched a video on youtube showing the insides of a Silvia which looked quite straight forward, is it difficult to repair because of parts availability?


If you blow out an element on an older model then it's costly to replace. A newer model not so must but IMHO at new prices the newer model is over priced and you have to work around its auto shut off which makes you null any warranty or makes it stupidyo use if you don't.


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Just out of curiosity I have been looking at a Fracino Heavenly. Looks like a lot of machine for the money (used of course). Would this be overkill for a total beginner and are parts likely to cost me more if needed over either the Silvia or the Classic?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

On here we talk a fair bit about upgradeitis. Starting off with a better machine just means you miss out one (or two) steps in the quest to better coffee so no not overkill. In fact you might find it easier to produce the coffee you seek.

Prices for parts in some cases will be similar whilst in others will be more in the Fracino but not so much so that it might be a deal breaker. Mainly because the quality and type of parts will differ.

Other threads here are worth a read for comments eg.

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?4721-Fracino-Heavenly


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## tAClue (Jul 6, 2017)

Thanks to all for all the help so far with my entry into the coffee world. I have what I think is an early Fracino Heavenly on the way.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I've said it before but one of the ironies of espresso making is that most sensible people understandably shy away from blowing big bucks on an 'expert' machine, yet this is one 'hobby' where having better kit actually makes it easier to get good results as a beginner. Many beginners (myself included) struggle with temp surfing, ill-fitting tampers and inconsistent grinders. The very people who would benefit most from kit that makes life easier are the least likely to own it. If you've jumped in at decent HX level (and have found a commensurate grinder to pair it with) you'll be making good coffee in no time - so definitely not overkill. My coffee improved almost overnight when I upgraded from PIDded Classic and Mazzer Mini to R58 and Eureka 65E (and again whenI got the E37s).

So very different to racing bikes, canoes, posh knives etc that are a nightmare for the uninitiated in order to reach the heady heights of their performance in skilled hands. Although it could be said that VST baskets might fit into this category as they're often said to be better at extracting the most from the coffee but are brutally unforgiving of bad prep.


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