# adjusting frothing technique for less milk in 300ml jug



## whip (Jul 9, 2016)

Hoping for some help with my frothing technique in a 300ml jug (alex duetto III with a 3 hole steaming tip and the teflon sleeve removed from the wand). When I fill up the milk to the bottom of the spout inside the jug, with my current technique I am achieving fairly good and consistent results. This is great when I am making a small flat white + a piccolo (that tends be the order of choice in my household first thing in the morning) given the respective glass sizes. If that's all I made all day I'd be well on my way to getting my latte art down pat, but for the rest of the day I only need to steam flat whites, however when I reduce the milk accordingly and use the same frothing technique, it more often than not goes to ####. I've tried more/less stretching, more/less swirling etc for smaller volumes of milk but can't get any level of consistency. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Bit weird, I too use a 300ml jug (motta), I only froth about 120mls milk each time and don't really have any issues. I am a little confused as I drink flat whites in a 5oz cup, why are you using less milk? surely it would be about the same volume for a normal flat white v's a small and a piccolo?

You could try closing the steam valve slightly to allow more control time.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

smaller jug / 2 hole steam tip (could try wedging a hole shut with a broken off cocktail stick also)or just steam the same amount to make and just accept it is going down the sink until you have gradually by reducing the amount of milk in little steps mastered the different quantities ?

My smallest jug is a 350ml motta but know they also make a 250ml but that has got to be tiny!

John


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## whip (Jul 9, 2016)

mremanxx said:


> Bit weird, I too use a 300ml jug (motta), I only froth about 120mls milk each time and don't really have any issues. I am a little confused as I drink flat whites in a 5oz cup, why are you using less milk? surely it would be about the same volume for a normal flat white v's a small and a piccolo?
> 
> You could try closing the steam valve slightly to allow more control time.


Sorry, what I meant was that a small flat white and a piccolo require the right about of milk for the 300ml jug, but if I'm just trying to make a small flat white using the same technique I end up with large bubbles and not much microfoam. I'll try closing the steam valve a little as you suggested, thanks


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## whip (Jul 9, 2016)

johnealey said:


> smaller jug / 2 hole steam tip (could try wedging a hole shut with a broken off cocktail stick also)or just steam the same amount to make and just accept it is going down the sink until you have gradually by reducing the amount of milk in little steps mastered the different quantities ?
> 
> My smallest jug is a 350ml motta but know they also make a 250ml but that has got to be tiny!
> 
> John











These are the tips that came with the machine. The two hole one has much larger diameter holes than the other 3 and when I use it the steam is so powerful I and up loosing a load of of milk out the top of the jug! I didnt get this mega-pressure with the two-hole before I removed the teflon tube from the wand, but with that in the steam seemed very wet. I'll try blocking one of the holes of the 3-hole tip as you suggested. I also wouldn't mind wasting a bit of milk as per your other suggestion, but the good microfoam I can create, always seems to be the last bit of milk left in the jug! LOL


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

johnealey said:


> smaller jug / 2 hole steam tip (could try wedging a hole shut with a broken off cocktail stick also)or just steam the same amount to make and just accept it is going down the sink until you have gradually by reducing the amount of milk in little steps mastered the different quantities ?
> 
> My smallest jug is a 350ml motta but know they also make a 250ml but that has got to be tiny!
> 
> John


I use a 250ml Motta Europe for flat whites and smaller. Just need to modulate steam more to make sure I don't spray all the milk out of the jug. I use this jug because it allows me to properly sink the steam tip and get a good roll.


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## whip (Jul 9, 2016)

Dallah said:


> I use a 250ml Motta Europe for flat whites and smaller. Just need to modulate steam more to make sure I don't spray all the milk out of the jug. I use this jug because it allows me to properly sink the steam tip and get a good roll.


I tried cocktail stick blocking off one of the 3-holes and it just seemed weird, very little pressure at all and blowing out at a funny angle. Will try modulating the steam with the two hole again. Is this the Motta jug you have

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motta-Europa-Frothing-Stainless-Steel/dp/B001RZPYKS/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1469666877&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=250ml+Motta+Europe ? Do you think the upside down bulb shape helps with the roll?


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I have one like that, you could post a video of you frothing, many people on here can look at your technique and give feedback, that may help.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Just a thought and reading what you said about wet steam, you did give the steam wand a good purge before starting to steam to clear water condensed in the end ( with the teflon tube attached) ?

I ask as given this machine was sold with the tube in place, would it be logical to assume the steam tips supplied with it are designed with the tube in place in mind, if that makes sense. Removing the teflon tube foul then provide more of a burst of steam than the tips supplied designed for, maybe? If so maybe a different diameter holed steam tip required such as 1.2mm vs 1mm if too fierce (can't help with supplier but they are out there, I know Londinium offer different sizes, may not fit yours though)

John


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

I am assuming that with the smaller volume of milk you get too much turbulence leading to sputtering and big bubbles. Forgive me if I'm wrong.

Have you tried the four hole tip and venting some of the pressure from the steam boiler before you froth your milk? I ask because four holes may get you a more even steam pattern, and venting should reduce the speed of the steam. The effect may be to reduce the troublesome turbulence.

I'll happily vent my wand for four or five seconds to bring the pressure down from a peak 1.6bar to a much more manageable 1.2bar for small jugs. I also found single hole tips took too long, two and three holes were just turbulent, but a four hole tip just made everything click together speed and great micro foam, provided I operate between 1.2 and 1.3 bar.


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## whip (Jul 9, 2016)

johnealey said:


> Just a thought and reading what you said about wet steam, you did give the steam wand a good purge before starting to steam to clear water condensed in the end ( with the teflon tube attached) ?
> 
> I ask as given this machine was sold with the tube in place, would it be logical to assume the steam tips supplied with it are designed with the tube in place in mind, if that makes sense. Removing the teflon tube foul then provide more of a burst of steam than the tips supplied designed for, maybe? If so maybe a different diameter holed steam tip required such as 1.2mm vs 1mm if too fierce (can't help with supplier but they are out there, I know Londinium offer different sizes, may not fit yours though)
> 
> John


Yeah, I always give it a good purge. You could be right about the tips not being right with the teflon removed. With it removed all but 2 hole are kinda controllable, but seem to require very different techniques. Its really frustrating. I'll persist with one of the tips for a few months and then give up on it and try one of the other tips. 2 years I've been trying. Maybe I should take a day off, buy 100 pints of milk and just make one after the other until I've nailed it. LOL


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The tip's are the same with or without the plastic liner. Without the liner it provides a greater volume of steam at the tip.

The varying number / positioning of holes give give differing swirl patterns. Also small variations in hole size can make a considerable difference to of hole. I.e Doubling the hole diameter quadruples the hole area or pro rata.

Steam tips do have a recess or an "O" ring in them to receive the plastic liner.


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