# Vario SS Burrs



## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I got a set of these over xmas.

Does anyone have any tips with using them?

I find I just don't like the flavour profile I get with them across a range of brewed methods.

If any one can offer up some tips, that would be great.

To be honest though, I'm thinking of offering them up for trade for some ceramic Vario burrs (as I chipped mine removing them...







).


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

I would say id buy the ceramic ones from you but theyre chipped


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> I find I just don't like the flavour profile I get with them across a range of brewed methods.
> 
> If any one can offer up some tips, that would be great. To be honest though, I'm thinking of offering them up for trade for some ceramic Vario burrs (as I chipped mine removing them...
> 
> ...


SS burrs turn Vario into very capable brew/pour over grinder - much better than the stock ceramic burrs. Currently using mine with Christmas pressy V60 and dialling it in with a refractometer. Took a few goes to tweak the grind to get perfect extraction. Got the refractometer as I was fed up with the hit and miss approach - some brews were great, a lot were average and some rank. With the refractometer, at least I know if it's under/over extracted rather than blaming the coffee and/or my brew technique. Glen has one he will hire out - might be something to consider.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

Yea, which is really unfortunate as I think I prefer the higher TDS extractions of the more dusty ceramics.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> SS burrs turn Vario into very capable brew/pour over grinder - much better than the stock ceramic burrs. Currently using mine with Christmas pressy V60 and dialling it in with a refractometer. Took a few goes to tweak the grind to get perfect extraction. Got the refractometer as I was fed up with the hit and miss approach - some brews were great, a lot were average and some rank. With the refractometer, at least I know if it's under/over extracted rather than blaming the coffee and/or my brew technique. Glen has one he will hire out - might be something to consider.


What do you go for?

I always find the coarser grind of the SS burrs is lacking in body or too acidic.

Maybe its just my inexperience with this type of burr though....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Surely the SS burrs produce less fines, hence you can grind finer and reach a higher extraction yield and still be in the nice zone


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Surely the SS burrs produce less fines, hence you can grind finer and reach a higher extraction yield and still be in the nice zone


The SS burrs produce less fines but are limited quite substantially with how fine they will grind.

Burrs touching won't produce a grind fine enough for espresso.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> What do you go for?
> 
> I always find the coarser grind of the SS burrs is lacking in body or too acidic.
> 
> Maybe its just my inexperience with this type of burr though....


How long have you been using the SS burrs? Take a bit of time to bed in and settle down. As Gary says, they produce a much more even grind - ideal for brew/pour over. Measuring extraction really does eliminate the guesswork and allow you to fine tune and concentrate on flavour.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> What do you go for?
> 
> I always find the coarser grind of the SS burrs is lacking in body or too acidic.
> 
> Maybe its just my inexperience with this type of burr though....


Sounds like underextraction, can you slow down the pour?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Just a thought, but did you adjust the burrs after fitting the SS ones? You can use an Allen key but there's a Baratza proprietary one. I purposely didn't zero my SS burrs after fitting - preferring to 'do it by eye', that is, backed off the Allen key adjuster until the Vario was producing decent medium coarse ground in the mid range of the macro setting. This gives me the range of grind I need for my current pour over methods - Chemex and V60 in the main.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

I use it for French press and vac pot too.

I'd agree about the under extraction.

Mmmm, i adjusted the burrs so they touch at the finest setting but I find anything past 4 on the macro lacks serious body.

Not so much with a v60, as I can control that with my kettle, but for French press I just can't get it right....


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

How long are you steeping?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> How long are you steeping?


In the fp?

Anywhere up to an hour (but usually 30 mins) @ 22g into about 350g (including bloom) of off the boil water.

I don't agitate apart from folding in the grinds and later breaking the crust so I can add the lid and filter, to save heat loss.

Today I had the HB Bolivia in FP with 24g and a 30 min steep and it was pretty good.

Drinkable while at body temp, but it needed improvement.

I guess the thing to do would be to look at TDS, but barring lending one, would anything less than the VST do?

There are some cheap ones on CS.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> In the fp?
> 
> Anywhere up to an hour (but usually 30 mins) @ 22g into about 350g (including bloom) of off the boil water.
> 
> ...


The cheap ones are not coffee refractometers. A non coffee refractometer won't read in coffee TDS and it may not even give a comparable reading in whatever scale the non-coffee refractometer uses, the VST has proprietry optics not found in other refractometers (even others made by Misco)...if you don't get an accurate TDS reading, then the calculations by the software won't be accurate either. You can use other devices to take comparative readings (weaker vs stronger) in their own scales, but you also have the problem of filtering out undissolved solids from the samples with French press & espresso (VST make syringe filters for this purpose).

Are you tasting as you go in the steep?

Can you describe any "defective" flavours?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

MWJB said:


> The cheap ones are not coffee refractometers. A non coffee refractometer won't read in coffee TDS and it may not even give a comparable reading in whatever scale the non-coffee refractometer uses, the VST has proprietry optics not found in other refractometers (even others made by Misco)...if you don't get an accurate TDS reading, then the calculations by the software won't be accurate either. You can use other devices to take comparative readings (weaker vs stronger) in their own scales, but you also have the problem of filtering out undissolved solids from the samples with French press & espresso (VST make syringe filters for this purpose).
> 
> Are you tasting as you go in the steep?
> 
> Can you describe any "defective" flavours?


I don't tend to taste as I go because I have a very specific temperature at which I can enjoy coffee and its difficult to judge. Even a perfect cup at the wrong temperature is ruined for me.

As far as defective flavours, I'm 18mins into a steep now.

I'll tell you what I get.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Kyle548 said:


> I don't tend to taste as I go because I have a very specific temperature at which I can enjoy coffee and its difficult to judge. Even a perfect cup at the wrong temperature is ruined for me.
> 
> As far as defective flavours, I'm 18mins into a steep now.
> 
> I'll tell you what I get.


If that perfect temp is on the cooler side, cool down your sample when tasting coffee from a hot pot, I swirl a mouthful around in a cold cup until blood temp to determine when to kill the brew.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

This cup is not bad actually, maybe a little on the bright side, but there are not so many issues with flavour.

As the cup cools into tepid, kind of, very slightly sour.

The problem I have is not so much with odd flavours, it's just the flavour profile is brighter and I think, has less mouth feel.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Will your pot take more than 350g?

You could still go finer & longer (easier with more brew mass), the flavour may flatten off, but may pick up sweetness again, with less sourness, if you can push through?

Try dropping down to 56-58g/l the final cup may not have any more TDS but you might get a richer mouthfeel (yes, it seems counter intuitive)?

Or carry on as you are and drink it before it cools & turns sour! ;-)

I do wonder whether sharp, flat burrs are best suited to steeping though (I'm not saying I believe the coffee will taste different to conicals at a given yield, just that they may impact on how quickly you get to that yield).


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

It's a 350ml Bodum Kenya.

In reality, it's more like 330 though, because the bloom is really quite big.

I'll try dropping the dose a little and do a notch loser, I guess. The brew starts to cool a little too much after more than 30 mins, even though the vessel is insulated.

The issue with going finer is that I'm on probably macro 3. I just sort of feel like I'm wasting those other 8 macro settings as there is nothing they can really grind find enough for.

I guess it was about the same with the ceramics, as I would be using only a few settings for brewed though...

Any tips for Vacpot?

I find vacpot really sensitive to how I brew.

I have been letting the top draw up fully, reducing the heat so that its on a simmer in the bottom and then adding coffee, letting it steep for a min then taking it off and letting it draw down. (total time from adding coffee to the end of draw down is usually like 3 ~ 4 mins)

Vacpot almost always tastes wrong.

At the worst, it has tasted almost exactly like chewing paracetamol and at the other end of the scale a bodiless acidic solution.

Any ideas?


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## jakeapeters (May 20, 2013)

I've got a Vario with the SS burrs and I've recalibrated mine so that I can achieve a fine drip grind around 3 and a course drip around 6/7 (haven't made a Press in a really long while so I can't comment for that, but I'd assume around 9 would get me there). Sounds like yours is set up a little too coarse? I hear the motor just starting to labour at around 1F.

Just made a 12g/200ml Aeropress (with HasBean Canton Uyunense) at 4 with a 25 minute steep and got around 21% extraction, but crazy sweet and good mouthfeel, far better than I ever could get from the ceramic burrs.


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

jakeapeters said:


> I've got a Vario with the SS burrs and I've recalibrated mine so that I can achieve a fine drip grind around 3 and a course drip around 6/7 (haven't made a Press in a really long while so I can't comment for that, but I'd assume around 9 would get me there). Sounds like yours is set up a little too coarse? I hear the motor just starting to labour at around 1F.
> 
> Just made a 12g/200ml Aeropress (with HasBean Canton Uyunense) at 4 with a 25 minute steep and got around 21% extraction, but crazy sweet and good mouthfeel, far better than I ever could get from the ceramic burrs.


I always do my FP quite fine.

Maybe I don't have the burrs aligned, but I can't imagine using anything as high as 9.

I think i could build a house with the bricks I get from such a coarse setting.

Care to take a photo of grinds at each macrosetting?


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## jakeapeters (May 20, 2013)

[quote=Kyle548;127251

Care to take a photo of grinds at each macrosetting?

Yep, I'll give it a go tomorrow if I get a chance!

I agree that it could be the burr alignment though - did you make sure all the surfaces were really clean before reassembly?


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## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

jakeapeters said:


> Yep, I'll give it a go tomorrow if I get a chance!
> 
> I agree that it could be the burr alignment though - did you make sure all the surfaces were really clean before reassembly?


I gave them a bit of a hoover, not much more than that though.

I did mark the burrs and ran them to see if they scuffed and tightened the screws as required, but I'm not sure how much this helped.

Might need to have another go at all.

Mostly I'm interested to see how tight it will grind...


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Sounds like you're grinding a little too coarse

Can you tighten up by 1 macro setting and try again?


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## jakeapeters (May 20, 2013)

Kyle548 said:


> I gave them a bit of a hoover, not much more than that though.
> 
> I did mark the burrs and ran them to see if they scuffed and tightened the screws as required, but I'm not sure how much this helped.
> 
> ...


Right, here's a picture of some grounds I used earlier to make an Aeropress. Ground at 6L.









And for comparison a grind at 1L.


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