# Coffee challenge



## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Hi, new to the coffee lark but have used a B2C for a few years which always gave me a decent long drink with almost any mass market shop bought bean.

After buying a Gaggia Classic and trying it old school the results have been variable to say the least using the same beans that my B2C did.

Now I totally accept that fresh roasted beans will make a world of difference, however here is the challenge.

Surely a good cup can be made using mass market beans, they sell millions of them.

Who has had good results using which beans? And more importantly HOW.

This is only for a bit of fun, but one thing I have noticed is that people often run out of fresh roasted beans and surely it would be nice to have a back up recipe to stave off the caffeine pangs by being able to get beans from a supermarket until your fresh beans arrive...no.

Thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dont run out of beans get a bean subscription at a roasters ...


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Dont run out of beans get a bean subscription at a roasters ...


Worms wriggling


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> Worms wriggling


In your brain?


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

mrboots2u said:


> in your brain?


pmsl


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> Hi, new to the coffee lark but have used a B2C for a few years which always gave me a decent long drink with almost any mass market shop bought bean


I'd dispute your definition of decent


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

And I've had a few pleasant cups from Sainsbury's finest Kenyan beans but they weren't 'cheap'


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Here is a thread that may help you with your challenge...

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?4903-Supermarket-ground&highlight=emergency+beans


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Dont run out of beans get a bean subscription at a roasters ...


And/or

Don't run out of beans - keep an emergency stash in the freezer...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Taking this thread seriously for a minute...

This is to make espresso based drinks presumably ( as opposed to brewed )

Oh I'm still not doing it btw just want to make sure other peoples responses are in line with the OPs " challenge "


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Taking this thread seriously for a minute...


Really?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

I think Jeebsy has hit the proverbial nail.....

I used to happily drink large chain Costabucks coffee (originally in large buckets of milk) and I thought it was decent...

I used to really enjoy drinking espresso when in France/Italy/Spain etc and I thought it was decent...

So I moved to espressos in Costabucks... and I thought they were decent...

Then I got an espresso machine (pressurised basket) and bought supermarket beans and I thought it was decent...

I moved to "fresh" ground (from a local deli) and thought it was decent...

I bought a cheapo grinder, ground the same beans and thought it was decent...

I got a Gaggia (with a real basket) and the same beans and.... well actually I was pretty disappointed but eventually what I made I thought was decent...

I got some "proper fresh" beans through the cheap grinder and Gaggia and they were "more than decent"......

This was the Eureka moment when I first got coffee that I thought was approaching "good"...

I got an SJ and very quickly realised that what I had thought was "good" was merely "drinkable"...

Needless to say the coffee that I used to think was decent wouldn't get that "accolade" now...

I must say that I do still really enjoy "some" espresso in France/Italy/Spain although some of it I now think is 'orrible!!!!


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Taking this thread seriously for a minute...
> 
> This is to make espresso based drinks presumably ( as opposed to brewed )
> 
> Oh I'm still not doing it btw just want to make sure other peoples responses are in line with the OPs " challenge "


That is correct, my preference is to pull a shot, add some hot water then some milk, total volume is normally about 140ml. This is how I drink mine, which is why I am reluctant to spend 4 times on beans than I currently do.

I obviously don't have a sophisticated palate like some members.

An analogy would be, my favourite wine is chateauneuf du pape, I don't mind spending £20 on a bottle but would never dilute it or use it for cooking


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> *Surely a good cup can be made using mass market beans, they sell millions of them.*


This is exactly why you won't - or will struggle to - get a good coffee with commodity beans. They sell millions of them because they're cheap, crap, easily available, the farmers get a crap wage and it's traded on the stock markets. I doubt you will find any specialty coffee sold even close to the same numbers as supermarket or other commodity beans.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Wine analogy is crap

So you're wanting to make an americano then add milk basically? you don't steam the milk?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> That is correct, my preference is to pull a shot, add some hot water then some milk, total volume is normally about 140ml. This is how I drink mine, which is why I am reluctant to spend 4 times on beans than I currently do.
> 
> I obviously don't have a sophisticated palate like some members.
> 
> An analogy would be, my favourite wine is chateauneuf du pape, I don't mind spending £20 on a bottle but would never dilute it or use it for cooking


This is meant kindly not in an combative way, often post like this can be construed as argumentative , this one isnt meant to be

Its just advice based on some limited coffee experience and trying to help a lot of people that come on to the forum

I try and do this in the best way for them to get a drink that they enjoy ( whatever bean , brew method and equipment they choose to use )

So dont spend £4 on beans ....if you dont think they are worth it , thats your personal opinion and choice...

Also don't spend time and effort and money on an ims screen , modding the machine with pressure gauges and other bit and bobs ( as per posts on other threads )

These wont make improvements you expect them to if you aren't going to buy fresh beans to start...

If you absolutely love the taste of the Lavazza then stick to it, it makes no difference to me in the grand scheme of things

If you want to drink you espresso diluted with milk in , makes no difference to me either ....ill try and help you get the best taste from the Lavazzza i can ... But i can't subscribe to the notion that commodity coffee and specialty coffee should be the same price and deliver the same taste....

I suspect you want more from your coffee though , otherwise you wouldn't have bought a gaggia etc and be asking questions about modding it ..

Excellent tasting coffee, starts with a quality ingredient ....

Cheers


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Mass roasted coffee - roasted dark to mask defects, roasted by the tonne with very little quality control (compared to specialty roasters), roasted in a huge warehouse then thrown on a shelf to go stale.

Its like taking your carefully grown and nurtured Chat du Pap grapes and blitzing them in a blender for a smoothie.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Drewster said:


> I think Jeebsy has hit the proverbial nail.....
> 
> I used to happily drink large chain Costabucks coffee (originally in large buckets of milk) and I thought it was decent...
> 
> ...


 I actually think your statements make a lot of sense as do MrBoots further on, I am going to get some fresh beans on Monday from Artisanroast just so I can compare, for me just now it is the whole process that I am enjoying the coffee at the end is secondary, I am actually finding it fascinating and never thought that the taste would be so different and affected so my by so may variables.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> I actually think your statements make a lot of sense as do MrBoots further on, I am going to get some fresh beans on Monday from Artisanroast just so I can compare, for me just now it is the whole process that I am enjoying the coffee at the end is secondary, I am actually finding it fascinating and never thought that the taste would be so different and affected so my by so may variables.


Sorry if you know this already , if you do this next bit will be terribly patronising sorry

If your getting fresh beans for espresso , allow then a rest time ( a period of time from roast to degas )

Ask artisan roast what they would recommend for a rest time and even a recipe given your equipment....


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> I actually think your statements make a lot of sense as do MrBoots further on, I am going to get some fresh beans on Monday from Artisanroast just so I can compare, for me just now it is the whole process that I am enjoying the coffee at the end is secondary, I am actually finding it fascinating and never thought that the taste would be so different and affected so my by so may variables.


I also really enjoy the "ritual" - I think there is a lot of OCD in lots of coffee nerds (and presumably all sorts of other nerds) so ritual and obsession is a plus for us!!!

And we even get a nice cup of coffee possibly more than occasionally ;-)


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I didn't completely Boots thanks, I gathered from reading other posts that most beans need about 5-7 days before using depending on when they have been roasted. I take it that this is why I should ask the shop as they will know the roast date? I presume that keeping fresh beans in an airtight container is best or would you recommend fridge/freezer (this one never seems to have a clear answer I've found - don't know why)


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Drewster said:


> I also really enjoy the "ritual" - I think there is a lot of OCD in lots of coffee nerds (and presumably all sorts of other nerds) so ritual and obsession is a plus for us!!!
> 
> And we even get a nice cup of coffee possibly more than occasionally ;-)


I agree, I do long range target shooting and most of the fun is in actually making the ammo not so much the shooting, it is the processes I find fascinating, I know I will eventually convert to solely fresh roasted beans just like I converted to using premium ammo components, it didn't stop me experimenting first though, think I just like a challenge.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> I didn't completely Boots thanks, I gathered from reading other posts that most beans need about 5-7 days before using depending on when they have been roasted. I take it that this is why I should ask the shop as they will know the roast date? I presume that keeping fresh beans in an airtight container is best or would you recommend fridge/freezer (this one never seems to have a clear answer I've found - don't know why)


Beans from the roaster should come with a roast date on them ...

While degassing or resting id keep in the bag they are in , in a cupboard out of light , at room temp

When open put into a air tight container is same cupboard , not in the fridge...


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

That's what I do just now.........even with my crappy mass produced stuff (LOL)


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Something I forgot to ask, if on average I was to use 60g of beans a day (420 a week) and I buy a kilo from Rave and wait 7 days for it to degas, I am into week 4 before it is finished, would I notice a marked deterioration in taste quality, if so I would be better off with a subscription and get coffee delivered in stages or would I not really notice?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

It'll be fine up to four weeks but may start to tail off slightly after that point


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> It'll be fine up to four weeks but may start to tail off slightly after that point


Cheers


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Well I can safely say that I have managed to get a reasonable, consistent result and from these Lavazza beans.

14g in 28g out

pour in 24 seconds with 6kg tamp pressure

only about 5 ml fudgey coloured crema(not sure what the colour should be to be honest)

added my 90ml hot water and some milk and got something that tastes decent to me.

It will give me a really good base line when my Rave beans come and are at their prime to use.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> Well I can safely say that I have managed to get a reasonable, consistent result and from these Lavazza beans.
> 
> 14g in 28g out
> 
> ...


Excellent .. Be prepare to have to alter the grind.. I suspect coarser to compensate for fresher beans


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Excellent .. Be prepare to have to alter the grind.. I suspect coarser to compensate for fresher beans


Thanks, good insight tip as I would have thought that I might have to go finer.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> Thanks, good insight tip as I would have thought that I might have to go finer.


Less fresh coffee needs a finer grind

darker coffee needs coarser grind

Hard to say.. Lavazza probably darker but less fresh.../


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

OT. Long range target shooting..... is how far?


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

grumpydaddy said:


> OT. Long range target shooting..... is how far?


Max out to 1000yards


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

mremanxx said:


> Well I can safely say that I have managed to get a reasonable, consistent result and from these Lavazza beans.
> 
> 14g in 28g out
> 
> ...


Next step - start making flat whites instead of your long milky black


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Flat whites...pah...rebranded cappucinos , thats what you all make...


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

That begs the question of what's a cappa....i'm just going to start referring to them as small lattes


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Small milk drinks


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