# Gaggia Classic Brew Ratio question



## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I have a Gaggia Classic (2015) which doesn't have 3-way solenoid, so when you turn off the pump, there is still quite a bit of water dripping through. To get something like 15g in / 30g out, I would need to stop the brew quite a bit earlier, there's up to 10g of water dripping after stopping the pump. Or is it better to remove the cup, as soon as the pump is stopped?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

remove the cup or grind finer - how many seconds is it taking for 30g?

I have a 2015 model as well as pre 2015


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

have you tried removing the shower screen and dispersion plate to get at the spring and "bobble" valve? - with a quick clean and a small stretch the drips often stop.

same system as this vid


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> remove the cup or grind finer - how many seconds is it taking for 30g?
> 
> I have a 2015 model as well as pre 2015


The last brew I did was a bit too quick - around 18 seconds maybe? Tasted quite nice , if not a bit sour. I do plan to grind a little finer next time, but I just wanted to know overall what the practice is. I rather not remove the cup too early, since I have the scale underneath, and things can get quite messy!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

the_partisan said:


> The last brew I did was a bit too quick - around 18 seconds maybe? Tasted quite nice , if not a bit sour. I do plan to grind a little finer next time, but I just wanted to know overall what the practice is. I rather not remove the cup too early, since I have the scale underneath, and things can get quite messy!


that sounds a bit quick aim for 25-30 second extraction - grind a bit finer (but try a few before adjusting the grind further) if your tamping is out a bit the extraction time will vary.

the 30 second extraction is a starting point then adjust the grind longer or shorter to see how it affects the flavour.

I started using a glass measure from Sainsbury also on ebay to measure extraction so I could remove it without needing the scales under a cup. 30ml = 30g


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I tried tightening the grind a little, and now I got a little bit of steam/water coming out of the sides of the portafilter. Does that mean I didn't lock it tightly enough?


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## tcw (Jun 25, 2016)

Is liquid still coming from the portafilter underneath? You likely need to replace the gasket, but you might have also choked the machine. Is the portafilter locking past 6 o'clock?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

tcw said:


> Is liquid still coming from the portafilter underneath? You likely need to replace the gasket, but you might have also choked the machine. Is the portafilter locking past 6 o'clock?


Yes most of the liquid still came through the spouts underneath, there were a few drops coming through the side and some steam as well. You can lock it past 6 o-clock, but I wasn't sure how tight it should be? I think I left it just around 6 o'clock. Should I be tightening it all the way?


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## tcw (Jun 25, 2016)

the_partisan said:


> Yes most of the liquid still came through the spouts underneath, there were a few drops coming through the side and some steam as well. You can lock it past 6 o-clock, but I wasn't sure how tight it should be? I think I left it just around 6 o'clock. Should I be tightening it all the way?


Do you know when the group gasket was last changed? It sounds like it's not sealing properly - it should seal around 6 o'clock (someone feel free to correct me). The good news is the gasket is cheap (~£2), and it's very simple to replace (half an hour, including cleaning). I picked up a Blue Cafelat Silicon Gasket for my Gaggia, not long after purchasing it.

You might get away with tightening the portafilter in a little more for a few days, but for the sake of a few quid and half an hour, it's well worth changing it.

EDIT: I see you got the 2015 Classic - I have no idea if the gasket I mentioned will fit (I'd assume not).


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

tcw said:


> Do you know when the group gasket was last changed? It sounds like it's not sealing properly - it should seal around 6 o'clock (someone feel free to correct me). The good news is the gasket is cheap (~£2), and it's very simple to replace (half an hour, including cleaning). I picked up a Blue Cafelat Silicon Gasket for my Gaggia, not long after purchasing it.
> 
> You might get away with tightening the portafilter in a little more for a few days, but for the sake of a few quid and half an hour, it's well worth changing it.
> 
> EDIT: I see you got the 2015 Classic - I have no idea if the gasket I mentioned will fit (I'd assume not).


I have got it new and haven't used it very much.. Bit of a shame if the Gasket already requires replacing! I will try tightening it all the way.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

New attempt today, I tried putting on the portafilter very loose while the machine was heating (I let it heat ~15min before use) and then tightened all the way when pulling the shot. No leaks this time with same grind, however all the water started to come out on one of the spouts for a good 10sec before coming from the other. I got 30g out in ~30sec, and then ended at 43g with the rest dripping through after stopping the pump. Tasted sweeter, but still a bit on the sour side, definitely very drinkable but I would have liked it to be sweeter. I think I'll try grinding even finer next time. Should really get a bottomless portafilter to see there are no tamping/distribution issues happening.


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## tcw (Jun 25, 2016)

the_partisan said:


> New attempt today, I tried putting on the portafilter very loose while the machine was heating (I let it heat ~15min before use) and then tightened all the way when pulling the shot. No leaks this time with same grind, however all the water started to come out on one of the spouts for a good 10sec before coming from the other. I got 30g out in ~30sec, and then ended at 43g with the rest dripping through after stopping the pump. Tasted sweeter, but still a bit on the sour side, definitely very drinkable but I would have liked it to be sweeter. I think I'll try grinding even finer next time. Should really get a bottomless portafilter to see there are no tamping/distribution issues happening.


How are you distributing into the portafilter? What tamper are you using? A naked portafilter will really help. You can pick one up on eBay for £20 or so last time I looked.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I would just remove it at the 30g point - the extra 13g are likley to be the sour/ bitter part of the shot


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jimbojohn55 said:


> I would just remove it at the 30g point - the extra 13g are likley to be the sour/ bitter part of the shot


Taste the whole shot, none of the individual components will be stellar on their own.

Grind size sets what you can/cannot achieve (for a given coffee) and varies with brew ratio.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

tcw said:


> How are you distributing into the portafilter? What tamper are you using? A naked portafilter will really help. You can pick one up on eBay for £20 or so last time I looked.


I have a 58mm convex tamper, but thinking of getting a VST basket and a 58.4mm flat tamper along with a naked portafilter. Distribution wise I didn't do anything special, just dump it from the catch cup of the grinder (M47) and give it a few light shakes to settle the grounds.

I'm just starting to play around with making espresso again after a long gap


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## rey_one (Jan 19, 2017)

The WDT helped to improve my shots with the Gaggia a lot: https://www.home-barista.com/weiss-distribution-technique.html


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

One more attempt today ended in disaster.. Somehow I think the grind was too fine and it ended up that water and steam was flowing out from all sides of the portafilter. I also noticed the place where I put the espresso machine wasn't completely level, might be explaning why the water comes out on one side first..


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Got a good shot out today, after fixing the level issue by moving the machine somewhere else, and upping the dose to 16g, and got 32g out in 28 secs or so. It still tasted sour however, I'm not using beans specifically for Espresso, but filter. Haven't refracted it yet, since I don't have a lot of syringe filters, but fairly sure it was underextracted. I've ordered a naked portafilter just to make sure I don't have any tamping/distribution issues and also really thinking about getting a VST or IMS filter basket, as they're supposed to increase extraction, would this be recommended?


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## nightslayer (May 29, 2016)

From my experience sour beans = channeling or too coarse a grind, but both of those usually result in a 2:1 brew ratio within too quick a time, e.g. 20-25s or so. It could possibly also be a boiler/machine temperature being too low - try at least half an hour of preheating the machine before use? It's not just the boiler and the water inside it that has to heat up but also all the brass components, which take some time due to them being built with sufficient mass for the purpose of heat retention.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I have the new Gaggia Classic and it turns itself off every 10 min or so. Really annoying. I might get rid of this eventually and get a Sage Duo Temp instead.. I will try grinding a little finer - though my last attempt ended up chocking the machine and spraying water everywhere.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

persevere with the new classic - its just as good as the older model, I've got both models and found that both require careful tamping, weighing but ultimately with good beans and a bit of practice they produced excellent coffee.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I have gotten a bottomless portafilter now with a 21g basket (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01EQ2SJW8/ref=pe_385721_37038051_TE_3p_dp_1) I noticed that the basket that comes with the portafilter looks a lot more even than the Gaggia stock one. The negative is that it's a bit fiddly to lock the portafilter on and off, for some reason.

First time using a bottomless portafilter, I dosed 20g and got 45g out, in around 25-30s, unforuntately I forgot to look at what the timer was saying in the excitement of watching the pour. But I could see the pour starting with 3 channels, and then converging into one after a while. Nothing splashing or anything like that. Does that mean tamping/dosing is right?

Taste was more intense than my previous attempts. Not sour, but instead very acidic. That could just be the beans I was using , since they're actually a light roast meant for filter brewing. I will start refracting the brews now as well - should give me more idea about where I stand with the extraction.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

have you got a decent basket ? a vst or Ims ?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> have you got a decent basket ? a vst or Ims ?


No, that would be the next step. I just used the 21g basket that came with the portafilter.


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