# Newbie alert - read a lot, trying to put in to practice



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Hello all, so firstly I have a gaggia classic, rancilio wand. The temp is controlled for my shot, but not my steam.

For grinding I have a baratza preciso.

Now please don't shoot me ha, as I am learning, about 8 drinks in, I am only using an aldi bean... (ducks under cover)

Disclaimer.

I have no expectation on coffee flavour, no expert palette. I love drinking mochas and fed up of spending £5 and I like making coffee its fun.

No I am trying to dial in my beans.

I am slowly adjusting the beans, tasted everyone so far and I've gone from pouring it down the drain to meh had worse in morrisons, had worse in Costa, so winning.

My first problem, the grind I have now, takes 20s to pull a shot, aiming 1-2 as normally suggested. Using 18g of coffee.

The problem is its that fine its hard to move it from the grind box to my (cant remember the name) the grind spot ha! Yea that big cup with holes in 🤣 sorry if this is offending you all. Its so fine it can be clumpy, slide like a block and I miss my cup.

Second problem is 18g goes over the line on the inside, and it looks too full... could I have a wrong cup size?

Now at 20s it does taste caramel ish, but I realise the aim is 25 or 30s ish, but with the above problem I am hesitant to go much finer.

I am currently tamping rather hard as per some suggestions to stay consistent 🤷‍♂️

My latte art is amazing, and expecting my photos on insta will get me a 3rd job soon 🤣

Sticking to grind problems first, all feed back is super appreciated, or tools to transfer grinds (in a clean manner is also welcome to avoid the wrath of the wife)

The photo below is post shot, seems a hole in the middle? Signs of tunneling ?

Thank you all, this site is super helpful!


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Your basket might be too full. They are probably designed for 16g.

I don't know about the preciso, is it aimed at espresso? You can buy a portafilter funnel from amazon or ebay, you'll need 58mm and ideally one that fits around the rim of the basket rather than one that slots inside it (look at Asso ones).

What tamper are you using? Post shot puck analysis is almost useless but it does looks like the outside of the puck has been compressed differently to the inside, though it could just be caused by the group venting and puck expansion. The mark in the middle doesn't look too serious and again could be caused by the group venting and puck expansion after the shot rather than before it. A good test is to put your dose in the basket, tamp, and lock the portafilter in with 5p on top of the puck; if you get an imprint or the puck cracks you're dosing too much.

Run the shot to a 1:2.5-1:3 instead of 1:2 if grinding finer does not yield good results (e.g. it gets muddy and grainy, the shot runs really slow/chokes or channels).

Also you don't need to tamp very hard, it makes little difference, the point is to be consistent and level.

Last but not least, buy some fresh roasted coffee. You aren't doing yourself any favours wrestling against stale supermarket stuff.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Has the machine had the opv pressure adjusted? Is it running factory 15 bar? Or less? When you say temp controlled you mean by other than the factory thermostat?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

The mark in the puck will be from the screw in the screen.

Id say dose less and then go finer on your grind. Tamp wise consistency is key.


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

I would suggest looking at the pic you are indeed over filling your basket as you can see an imprint of the shower screen screw. Maybe look at getting a 20g basket as you can range from 18-22 grams in this size. You need some head room above the Puck of coffee or you can risk damage to the coffee Puck resulting in channels etc.

As for getting the grinds in to the basket maybe look at getting a dosing funnel they can range from 10mm high to how ever high suits your needs.

As for clumping this is to be expected especially on a non espresso focused grinder. Try mixing the grinds up with a cocktail stick to help knock some of the clumps out. Next thing I would suggest is purchasing a higher end espresso grinder there are plenty out there even on this forum.

Hope this helps some


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Cuprajake said:


> The mark in the puck will be from the screw in the screen.
> 
> Id say dose less and then go finer on your grind. Tamp wise consistency is key.


 I did think this! Ha ha


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

HDAV said:


> Has the machine had the opv pressure adjusted? Is it running factory 15 bar? Or less? When you say temp controlled you mean by other than the factory thermostat?


 I bought the 2012 pid you helped me find 😁 i assume this means bar is not adjusted just temp. Sits at 96 when switched on for 20 minutes.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

You may need to check the advert or ask the seller it would be unusual for a pid machine nit have the opv set at 9 bar, beans and grind are key and the grind varies for each bean.

grind finer and get a portafilter funnel/make one and order some better beans rave signature or similar mail order or pop out to a local coffee shop and instead of the £5 get the £8 bag of beans (look for ones roasted 2-3 weeks ago)

looks like there are a few roasters in Leeds call them up have a chat coffee people love to talk coffee they will let you know the right brew for the beans 😉


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Loads of choice of roasters in Leeds area- and you almost can't move for bags of North Star in indie coffee shops. Depending which bit of Leeds you're in you can probably chuck a stone and hit a couple of roasters .

North Star, Maude, Chipp, Echelon have all given me lovely bags. Further out casa espresso and foundry, heading up there's rountons if you like a nice straightforward "cup of coffee" That's good value. (Their granary blend is lovely with milk)

Worth looking at the dog and hat sub page they regularly feature local roasters (and are based near york)

It does look like your grind might be too coarse there.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Actually just zoomed in on the grind and they look really coarse. It's not a pressurised basket is it?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> Actually just zoomed in on the grind and they look really coarse. It's not a pressurised basket is it?


 I am using bottomless because I like to make a mess / see that golden shot 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Missy said:


> Loads of choice of roasters in Leeds area- and you almost can't move for bags of North Star in indie coffee shops. Depending which bit of Leeds you're in you can probably chuck a stone and hit a couple of roasters   .
> 
> North Star, Maude, Chipp, Echelon have all given me lovely bags. Further out casa espresso and foundry, heading up there's rountons if you like a nice straightforward "cup of coffee" That's good value. (Their granary blend is lovely with milk)
> 
> ...


 When we talk about bean places, are these shops or roasters that sell locally? Not looked in to this at all, as I basically assumed beans from aldi would be a good start. Ls16 is my area if you know Leeds so well, or if you have a favourite friendly coffee place I like reccomendations so would be my starting place.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

OK sooooo

Watched more youbtube.. and noticed a big difference. I was timing from the moment I flicked the brew button, not when liquid started... yea I'm going finer lol.

Also moved to 16grams and that still seems to touch the screw / side of the shower, i get an imprint circle all the way around the edge.

Coffee is getting nicer tho. But I get double grams in 10 seconds so moving finer....


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Tinkstar said:


> OK sooooo
> 
> Watched more youbtube.. and noticed a big difference. I was timing from the moment I flicked the brew button, not when liquid started... yea I'm going finer lol.
> 
> ...


 You get a mark pre or post shot? If you're still using stale coffee it's going to run fast.

You time from when you flip the brew switch.


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

See list above for local roasters they will usually be really happy to help. Shops, I'm in Harrogate so tend to go to bean and bud, or over to York (where there's a list but I especially like the perky peacock on Lendal bridge in one of the turrets, or The Larder Club who aren't speciality coffee but an amazing social enterprise deli who serve North Star really well) but with two small children and full time work I usually just make my own at home! If I was going to Leeds specifically for coffee I'd be going to North Star's cafe at Leeds Dock. I know Clo have a cafe in Garforth but I find their coffee a bit so so. It's still going to knock the socks off Aldi.

Timing as Rob says time from when you flick the switch.


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## editor (Nov 8, 2017)

Kapow has been open in Leeds lately if you venture in to the centre.

Some of the other independents have been closed but there's loads to choose from as mentioned when they're open.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Rob1 said:


> You get a mark pre or post shot? If you're still using stale coffee it's going to run fast.
> 
> You time from when you flip the brew switch.





Missy said:


> See list above for local roasters they will usually be really happy to help. Shops, I'm in Harrogate so tend to go to bean and bud, or over to York (where there's a list but I especially like the perky peacock on Lendal bridge in one of the turrets, or The Larder Club who aren't speciality coffee but an amazing social enterprise deli who serve North Star really well) but with two small children and full time work I usually just make my own at home! If I was going to Leeds specifically for coffee I'd be going to North Star's cafe at Leeds Dock. I know Clo have a cafe in Garforth but I find their coffee a bit so so. It's still going to knock the socks off Aldi.
> 
> Timing as Rob says time from when you flick the switch.


 So 2 people saying from switch but youtube says from first drop.

I have to admit I have moved away from caramel taste to a coffee (instant) taste.. I prefer caramel

I will have a look online about opening times and see if I can take a trip down. 👍


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## Sam_d (Feb 8, 2019)

The thing is is you time from first drip depending on how long this takes you can end up with a shot that actually takes upwards of 40secs witch will result in over extraction. You want to be timing the shot from when the water hit the coffee Puck consistency and repeatability its key this is what you get timing from pump on. Timing from first drip can result in inconsistency and unrepeatability


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Tinkstar said:


> So 2 people saying from switch but youtube says from first drop.
> 
> I have to admit I have moved away from caramel taste to a coffee (instant) taste.. I prefer caramel
> 
> I will have a look online about opening times and see if I can take a trip down. 👍


 I guess the issue is, do you trust us or YouTube (you say YouTube as if it's a catch all repository of information a Holy Book of correctness) whereas like the forum, it's a load of random individuals saying their piece. The difference is YouTube is a bit of an echo chamber, you throw it out and little returns beyond your own voice. On a forum there's much more discussion, discernment and developing of corporate wisdom. Entirely up to you where you seek info from 😊


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Sam_d said:


> The thing is is you time from first drip depending on how long this takes you can end up with a shot that actually takes upwards of 40secs witch will result in over extraction. You want to be timing the shot from when the water hit the coffee Puck consistency and repeatability its key this is what you get timing from pump on. Timing from first drip can result in inconsistency and unrepeatability


 That won't result in over extraction, but yes it fails to measure how long ot takes to start flowing


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Missy said:


> I guess the issue is, do you trust us or YouTube (you say YouTube as if it's a catch all repository of information a Holy Book of correctness) whereas like the forum, it's a load of random individuals saying their piece. The difference is YouTube is a bit of an echo chamber, you throw it out and little returns beyond your own voice. On a forum there's much more discussion, discernment and developing of corporate wisdom. Entirely up to you where you seek info from 😊


 This is true, there are all an opinion, until I had my machine there was not much to discuss, and its is lack luster talking about it, and not been able to see it let alone do it.

The point above is rather excellent. Same starting point flicking the switch means contact and coffee extracted from a more consistent approach... also allows me to find that caramel again ha!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Sam_d said:


> The thing is is you time from first drip depending on how long this takes you can end up with a shot that actually takes upwards of 40secs witch will result in over extraction. You want to be timing the shot from when the water hit the coffee Puck consistency and repeatability its key this is what you get timing from pump on. Timing from first drip can result in inconsistency and unrepeatability


 So I am back to timing from flicking the switch.

Still working on that grind setting 🤣

Now to my steaming. Is it normal for the gaggia to provide steam, die down, then ramp back up then slowly fade away.

Do you, turn the dial all the way on? Partial? Half? All the way for first stage then reduce? Does the dial make any difference? Any tips on this as I can make loads of foam but can't get it to mix.

I have ordered a jug (been using a plastic measuring jug) so hoping this will help, i am doing a 1 cup measurement at a time about 300ml


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

How do I know whats to tight on the press? Is there a point you don't push past or have to push/ press tol?


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Re steaming milk lots of videos you need to get the angle of the jug right you have a thermometer to monitor milk temp? Practise with water and a drop of washing up liquid steam power will drop off as boiler is only small but there should be enough to steam 8oz of milk easily


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Tinkstar said:


> How do I know whats to tight on the press? Is there a point you don't push past or have to push/ press tol?
> 
> View attachment 50660


 There was a time where tamp pressure was thought to be critical there were calibrated tampers and all sorts of gizmos then it was decided it wasn't critical firm even pressure is what you want and a level bed of coffee


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

HDAV said:


> There was a time where tamp pressure was thought to be critical there were calibrated tampers and all sorts of gizmos then it was decided it wasn't critical firm even pressure is what you want and a level bed of coffee


 Got my self those spinning levellers, makes it a lot less skill but significantly more consistent. 🤣 I'll work out what's firm but not too firm, thank you. Just thought it might have to be past a certain point in the basket. 👍


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

HDAV said:


> Re steaming milk lots of videos you need to get the angle of the jug right you have a thermometer to monitor milk temp? Practise with water and a drop of washing up liquid steam power will drop off as boiler is only small but there should be enough to steam 8oz of milk easily


 Good to know its normal, I am waiting for a jug so I can look a bit better and compare easier.

Glad to know its not me and the steam does dip, will check out more videos 👍


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

@Tinkstar as your machine is a bit of an odd spec brew pid only it's worth checking the steam temp boiler is getting to, does your pid show current temp? What does it go to when you set steam switch on? What does it go up to when steam ready light comes on


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

HDAV said:


> @Tinkstar as your machine is a bit of an odd spec brew pid only it's worth checking the steam temp boiler is getting to, does your pid show current temp? What does it go to when you set steam switch on? What does it go up to when steam ready light comes on


 Yes it does. So its set 96 for brew.

When steam is turned on its goes to 155 then as I loose steam it goes to around 110 then back to 155 then starts to make a loud screech noise and dies back down to 110 ish I stop at 130 to avoid ducking back up as I read thats a thing 🤣


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

Seems normal then if you had steam control in the pid the element should kick in sooner to maintain 155 or as close as boiler is able to


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

HDAV said:


> Seems normal then if you had steam control in the pid the element should kick in sooner to maintain 155 or as close as boiler is able to


 Argh so that's why, I have tried a few hacks, letting a bit out before and turning stream on before 150 is hit. Might keep trying and turn it on at 140 to keep boiler going.

I now have milk jugs so hoping to improve 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Bit of an update.. still dialing in my beans, I bought 2 1kg bags from a shop on here, cant remember which, working through my tesco beans first... all good practice lol.

But my latte art is improving.

I am making bigger bubbles for longer, straight jug didnt work for me so now angling a bit more, and I think its getting better.

Its just crazy hard!

Any way heres an update of my journey, looking at upgrades tonight 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I have finally received some

Blackcat chocolate point and signature both 1kg to allow dialing in and learning.

Wow the smell and look and feel so much more fresh and crunchy.

First shot was significantly less bitter than previous. Also the very initial liquid was not black seemed a lot more consistent throughout the process

I have asked them about temperature as they suggest 18.5 1:2 at 28 seconds

Looking forward to trying with these beans and they are cheaper than my tesco supply 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Wow, I mean its not perfect but huge improvement, the drink is now really smooth, a smidge hint of bitter but only after taste. Wow

Black cat coffee 👍 feeling like I can make something good out of these beans 👍


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

OK so just made my last coffee of the night.

Channelling. This was the first cup in about 20 drinks I have had clear channeling, the liquid moved to the back (I am using blpf)

Nothing has changed, I'm assuming just one clump, could cause this, need to remember to mix it and fluff it, in my mind I dont recall doing this 🤦‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Does this count as a heart? 🤣🤣🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Upgrades have arrived. Need to swop them over.

My basket was swoped as that literally takes 2 seconds. Back to 18g and first pull = bang on 36!

18g in 36g out over 30s. So knocked the dial down one to finer. Taste was improved, significantly less bitter, and some flavours I have not had before, may be a tad acidic (who am I kidding i aint got a clue)

Shower and holding unit to be switched.

Also what arrived was my puly cleaning and back flush, might do this before replacing so any errors don't cause damage to my new stuff 🤷‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Most recent art, daughter was savage about my heart 🤣

This was done yesterday. Today has been a total flop.

Would mug depth make much difference? I am using a large mug, its getting 36g of coffee and 300ml of milk and some times its to the top others not (depending on the milk stretch)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Once you've mastered latte art, cup/glass size/shape is less of an issue. For the beginner, however, it's actually better to use a dedicated latte cup as they are wider and shallower. Apart from having a bigger surface area to play with - there's less tension so the resistance of the milk you lay down is easier to manage and manipulate.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Once you've mastered latte art, cup/glass size/shape is less of an issue. For the beginner, however, it's actually better to use a dedicated latte cup as they are wider and shallower. Apart from having a bigger surface area to play with - there's less tension so the resistance of the milk you lay down is easier to manage and manipulate.


 This was my assumption, to why I asked. Another reason to purchase something online 🤣

Best check with the wife to make sure its fitting of the kitchen 🤣

Need scales and cups 👍


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I'm going mad 🤣

18g beans 19g post grind (scales are to nearest 1g

I have changed the holder and the shower head. Deep cleaned and back flushed.

Shot came in at 40s and 31g so a bit short for 1-2 (scales dont fit under im getting good and looking 🤣)

Smooooothest shot by far, a little sharp at the end of the taste, no caramel no chocolate no syrup no fudge or nuts 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Well today I gave a deep clean.

Back washed. Rinsed. Replaced.

That holding unit clearly needed replacing, the vts (I think that's right) shower screen seems to make sense but wow it makes more of a mess when cleaning / letting water run through after making espresso to clean it 🤣 water can squirt anywhere!

Not sure it was requires but didn't cost much to try and experiment, it will stay in 😄


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I Want to say thank you again to this forum.

Got myself some scales 0.1g

Got my self an espresso shot glass so I can weigh as I extract. (My large mug wouldnt allow scales)

WHAT A DIFFERENCE! I actually just drank the espresso straight... straight.. like legit loved the flavour!

This forum is amazing.

It was 18.1g in 18.1g out the grinder.

33.5g out (scales have a delay and need to work on this)

I then pulled another shot straight after going to 42g just because and not so great 🤣

I'm legit looking forward to tomorrow's espresso... might not even add milk (unless its not so nice)

So thank you, a huge thank you


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Nothing to report. Finished 1kg of beans from blackcat. Never got the desired taste, but the taste did improve.

On to my next bag from them another 1kg but different bean, first two shots were a right mess and the espresso shot out like that first pee in the morning after a long session and needed to turn the machine off... gone a lot finer and it's pouring nice again.

I can taste significant different flavour, GREAT, but its not the flavours on the bag 🤣

My latte art is ... still a work in progress... thinking I need to buy that thermometer 🤣

In the last week this was my only photo worthy art, nothing even close to a blob otherwise 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

That is really good latte art Tinkstar! I like that it's quite understated 👍 My new cups finally arrived today so I am going to begin again the long steaming milk/latte art ordeal. I've also ordered from black cat (my first coffee order so quite excited) only I think I will run out of beans long before they arrive and have been rested. My rubbish timing 😩


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> That is really good latte art Tinkstar! I like that it's quite understated 👍 My new cups finally arrived today so I am going to begin again the long steaming milk/latte art ordeal. I've also ordered from black cat (my first coffee order so quite excited) only I think I will run out of beans long before they arrive and have been rested. My rubbish timing 😩


 Won't the delivery allow for resting? Time to get some over priced shop beans 🤣🤣🤣

Thank you for being so kind about my art. It's 1 art out of 25 cups not a great ratio, I can't can't consistently make loads of foam as I'm trying to avoid too much bubbles lol

Let me see your cups, I need new cups, but I want colourful 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> Won't the delivery allow for resting? Time to get some over priced shop beans 🤣🤣🤣


 I have absolutely no idea lol. Like everything, I am just guessing.



Tinkstar said:


> Let me see your cups, I need new cups, but I want colourful 🤣


 You won't want mine, they're dark brown. I have always had a strange thing about the colour of my cup not clashing with the drink that's in it so I have to have shades of coffee and muted shades 😂 I got them from a place called coffeecups.co.uk because I wanted some proper sized cups instead of huge mugs since I already have loads of those. I will post of a photo of my cup collection later lol.


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## EmmaC (Jan 17, 2021)

Tinkstar said:


> Let me see your cups, I need new cups, but I want colourful 🤣


 Check out Loveramics for colourful cups 👍

They have a 20% off thing at the moment I think too.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

So for the first time ever I put all three things together - grind beans, pull shot, steam milk. It didn't go entirely to plan as my coffee I think over extracted not helped by pulling a shot into a new cup so I think it was too large. My milk was good though. I now do exactly what every video tells you not to do with milk - Bob the jug up and down. But sorry, it works for me. If I don't do it, then liquid milk.

My latte art was a disaster but if you look closely you can make out Tinkerbell I think. (Was aiming for a heart lol). Hopefully my photo is the right way up or you won't see the fairy.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> So for the first time ever I put all three things together - grind beans, pull shot, steam milk. It didn't go entirely to plan as my coffee I think over extracted not helped by pulling a shot into a new cup so I think it was too large. My milk was good though. I now do exactly what every video tells you not to do with milk - Bob the jug up and down. But sorry, it works for me. If I don't do it, then liquid milk.
> 
> My latte art was a disaster but if you look closely you can make out Tinkerbell I think. (Was aiming for a heart lol). Hopefully my photo is the right way up or you won't see the fairy.
> 
> View attachment 52687


 I totally see the fairy!!!

New everything and getting that routine is hard!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So was making my first cup today.. steaming my milk 110% focus..

Daughter (5) came in screaming as her hand was falling off ... OK OK it was a teenie tiny paper cut, I was obviously distracted by the banshee screaming going on...

Produced this 🤷‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

My journey continues...

So clarify if I am wrong... my understanding for bubbles is..

Tip just inside to get big bubbles and do this for x time.

Then insert the steam wand further in to the milk to just mix big bubbles and kind of vortex it smooth and small.

Why is it that when I do the second part I get big bubbles? I assume its pushing them to the top and need mixing?

When I have the tip just on the top, it seems to suck these big bubbles in and break them down and it looks smooth, so I testes a theory.

I kept it at the top.... I did not lower...

This is the result...


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I have managed this 3 times today really seems more detailed.

So am I.. only now getting ENOUGH bubbles in.. to do art, or am i miss understanding some basics?


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

As you know, I'm no expert at this 😂 but I think you have the theory right. But I reckon you must kind of have to tailor it to your machine. I am getting really good textured milk every time now, but I'm not doing things according to the instructions on all the trillion videos I have watched. I bob the wand up and down in the milk now until the vortex is swirling and I think that gets air in. I do that for far longer than in the vids. So the milk rises by about 50%. Then put wand in a bit deeper and keep it still. I end up overheating my milk a bit but the texture seems right. On some of these videos they seem to do virtually nothing but stick the wand in for ten seconds and then it's job done.


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

It's a fine line between genius and insanity 😄


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> As you know, I'm no expert at this 😂 but I think you have the theory right. But I reckon you must kind of have to tailor it to your machine. I am getting really good textured milk every time now, but I'm not doing things according to the instructions on all the trillion videos I have watched. I bob the wand up and down in the milk now until the vortex is swirling and I think that gets air in. I do that for far longer than in the vids. So the milk rises by about 50%. Then put wand in a bit deeper and keep it still. I end up overheating my milk a bit but the texture seems right. On some of these videos they seem to do virtually nothing but stick the wand in for ten seconds and then it's job done.


 Those video pee me off now haha. Stick wand in, 10s make it deeper, hey look a heart. Do one!! It's a lie, good editing.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

HVL87 said:


> It's a fine line between genius and insanity 😄


 Insanity only right now 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

I gotta admit, I don't steam milk every day so there is less chance of failure 😂


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> I gotta admit, I don't steam milk every day so there is less chance of failure 😂


 I recently have stopped due to the insanity, and trying to learn how to dial in, so focused on that, but yuck, so I add milk 🤣 I'm yorkshire no waste up here 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Absolutely! 😂Nothing gets chucked down the sink in this house. I drink all the coffee, the good and the terrible. All part of the rich espresso experience. If it's terrible, things can only get better and tomorrow is another day. Have you tried the Black Cat Chocolate point? I have found that the easiest to dial into so far.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Absolutely! 😂Nothing gets chucked down the sink in this house. I drink all the coffee, the good and the terrible. All part of the rich espresso experience. If it's terrible, things can only get better and tomorrow is another day. Have you tried the Black Cat Chocolate point? I have found that the easiest to dial into so far.


 That's what I started with 🤣 and I didnt have my process down or scales etc etc then I ran out 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

As this is becoming more of my story thread...

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/57960-blackcat-signature/?do=embed&comment=819675&embedComment=819675&embedDo=findComment

I have hit a problem with the grinder it seems. O well. It's one of those things.

Wasn't having much luck with it and this hopefully allows me to blame something, rather than me ha!

Also a random screw fell out... no clue where from, can't be that important it still works 🤣

Does get filthy in there 🤦‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Well been a true northerner, I dont throw broken stuff away.

The grinder, still grinds. I increased the manual screw setting to the finer side and yes I cant adjust the micro adjuster.... BUT

I ground 20g of beans, put it to the finest setting and it took over 69 seconds to get 36g 🤣 no sour taste, no sharpness.

So going to go one big jump up to number 2 and shall see... but it'd the finest I have managed to grind 🤷‍♂️🤣 shall see, gives me time to look at fixing it or replacing it 😍


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> Also a random screw fell out... no clue where from, can't be that important it still works 🤣


 My attitude to machines entirely 🤣



Tinkstar said:


> Well been a true northerner, I dont throw broken stuff away.


 Yep, work that grinder to death lol. When it finally dies, you can always tell one of the kids they're having a grinder for their birthday this year 😂


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> you can always tell one of the kids they're having a grinder for their birthday this year


 They are 5 and 2, sounds perfect, make a lot of noise 🤷‍♂️🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Perfect for playdoh as well. 👍


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Perfect for playdoh as well. 👍


 Now you got me confused 😅


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Lol would make the ideal playdoh toy


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Lol would make the ideal playdoh toy


 That sounds like a devil aunty's trick 🤣🤣🤣 who hates kids or the parents 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Totally forgot what size my basket was so had a look, (basket does not say) turns out it's 16-18 but happily takes 20 with no imprint 🤷‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

@Emily it keeps making me want to come back!

Today's effort


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

It's a tulip 🌷! That is stunning! Well done 👏 Did you intend to do a tulip or was it an accidental tulip? I think original latte artworks are the best.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> It's a tulip 🌷! That is stunning! Well done 👏 Did you intend to do a tulip or was it an accidental tulip? I think original latte artworks are the best.


 I freaked out... it started to form a shape, I freaked out and stopped pouring to try and pour 🤣🤣 then it just did this, free style haha


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So today I made two lattes, my new mugs are significantly smaller, so I need a smaller pitcher or make 2 drinks 🤷‍♂️

But but but!!!

I made what I thought was hot milk so I just poured it in with little care and and and!!!! *flaps hands around and does a little dance..


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

I'm very impressed! You're making progress yay!! 👍


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> I'm very impressed! You're making progress yay!! 👍


 I have to admit,

I was over bubbling.

I genuinely thought I'd made hot milk

I re watched a video of a guy with a gaggia classic and trusted his position and advice and it just worked (didn't the 10billions cups before I thought I was doing the same) but having watched a gazillion YouTube I think the methods and blended, meaning nothing worked for my machine.

So back to gaggica classic videos. Done. Now to be consistent.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Consistency is the thing with this though isn't it. Suddenly one day, things fall into place, and you think, I've cracked it finally. Then the next three days it all goes tits up again. At least that's what I find at the moment.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Consistency is the thing with this though isn't it. Suddenly one day, things fall into place, and you think, I've cracked it finally. Then the next three days it all goes tits up again. At least that's what I find at the moment.


 I am hoping tomorrow night I smash it out lol.

Orderd some parts to fix the grinder. Lucky really the person didn't answer my reply for their grinder, was about to spend £175 on a grinder lol. Now I spent £9 to fix mine lol.


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Oh that's good! I'm sorry,I meant to ask how your grinder was. Glad it is fixable 👍☺


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Oh that's good! I'm sorry,I meant to ask how your grinder was. Glad it is fixable 👍☺


 Well my current options are

Flys through, dont think it touches the coffee.

Goes through fast and makes a mess

Goes through fast and some extraction happens. A bit messy but taste alright.

Takes 1 minute plus

I use to use my spinning tamp, watched the pros spin to evenly spread then tamp

This showed me I have been tamping harder than I can with the tamp only, as the spinner allows me to just put my weight on it 🤷‍♂️

So going back through these settings 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Hopefully the new part will sort it out! Can't deprive the world of latte art tulips!!! ☺😂


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

@Tinkstar Did you get the grinder fixed yet?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> @Tinkstar Did you get the grinder fixed yet?


 Parts not arrived yet.

So currently left it at the lowest setting and just doing 17g-20g depending on what comes out.

Which gets me 25-1:29 1:2 ratios lol

Tastes like traditional coffee. Occassional nutty (maybe) flavours.

Done 1 decent ish design in my big mug but I think it's a lot easier in a 250mug than 400ml mug lol

How are you getting on? Done much since the explosion?


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Lol had another "explosion" yesterday ☹ so not sure what is happening there! I only put 18g in the basket so not overloaded, but the portafilter crashed out mid shot, taking out the cup, scales, and saucer with it. I don't know if I am being too careful putting it in the thingy because I don't want to disturb the puck 🤷‍♀️ 
but I am back on the instant today because I am lockdown painting and haven't time for the mess 😂


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Emily said:


> Lol had another "explosion" yesterday ☹ so not sure what is happening there! I only put 18g in the basket so not overloaded, but the portafilter crashed out mid shot, taking out the cup, scales, and saucer with it. I don't know if I am being too careful putting it in the thingy because I don't want to disturb the puck 🤷‍♀️
> but I am back on the instant today because I am lockdown painting and haven't time for the mess 😂


 18g measure to 0.1g ?

if you are grinding pretty course then it could still create quite a volume

lastly was the pf locked in tightly enough, twisting , the pf isn't going to disturb the puck. I suspect it could be this


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> lastly was the pf locked in tightly enough, twisting , the pf isn't going to disturb the puck. I suspect it could be this


 This was my concern too 🤦‍♂️

No clue but would the rubber seal cause this issue ?


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Definitely not overloaded, when I tamped it was the right level (ie. line on the tamper). I kind of push it as far as it will go without me having to hold onto the other side of the machine to get some traction if you see what I mean. I will try forcing it a bit more.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Definitely not overloaded, when I tamped it was the right level (ie. line on the tamper). I kind of push it as far as it will go without me having to hold onto the other side of the machine to get some traction if you see what I mean. I will try forcing it a bit more.


 I have to hold mine.. seal ok?


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> have to hold mine.. seal ok?


 Do you? Ah ok will try that! I maybe need to be more forceful with it. I was scared of breaking something. Hopefully the seal is ok, I'm not sure how I would know. But it's only 2 months old...


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> 18g measure to 0.1g ?
> 
> if you are grinding pretty course then it could still create quite a volume
> 
> lastly was the pf locked in tightly enough, twisting , the pf isn't going to disturb the puck. I suspect it could be this


 This one cropped up in the Sage section. Never happened to me over a lot of coffee even early on without scales and basket so full it was hard to get the portafilter on.  At that point I read the manual and noticed what the razor tool was for. Also the brewing instruction especially re the gauge but decided that part was most definitely wrong. It probably works out with preground and the dual wall baskets. The ratio they suggest can be pretty good on some beans though.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So far.. no consistency and hearts seem the hardest....

I think not knowing if it will work or not impacts on the design lol

The milky blob like bit at the bottom is left over milk in the pitcher as I don't waste it haha, the was the same throughout before my blob ha


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## PACMAN (Feb 11, 2021)

Tinkstar said:


> I re watched a video of a guy with a gaggia classic and trusted his position and advice and it just worked.


 Tinkstar, you don't happen to remember which video this was do you? I'm not yet at the point of 'art', in fact I'm still awaiting a few bits (grinder, PID components, pressure gauge) before I can even start dialling in my (old but good enough for my B2C) beans. have to use the old ones up before I can get some from my local roaster (no waste and I'm not even Northern!!).


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

PACMAN said:


> Tinkstar, you don't happen to remember which video this was do you? I'm not yet at the point of 'art', in fact I'm still awaiting a few bits (grinder, PID components, pressure gauge) before I can even start dialling in my (old but good enough for my B2C) beans. have to use the old ones up before I can get some from my local roaster (no waste and I'm not even Northern!!).


 I do I subscribe to his videos so I can find it. I'll find it and share 😁


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> The milky blob like bit at the bottom is left over milk in the pitcher as I don't waste it haha, the was the same throughout before my blob ha
> 
> View attachment 54114


 I'm seeing crocuses in a pot. Very spring! 👏


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

PACMAN said:


> Tinkstar, you don't happen to remember which video this was do you? I'm not yet at the point of 'art', in fact I'm still awaiting a few bits (grinder, PID components, pressure gauge) before I can even start dialling in my (old but good enough for my B2C) beans. have to use the old ones up before I can get some from my local roaster (no waste and I'm not even Northern!!).







It was this video.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> I'm seeing crocuses in a pot. Very spring! 👏


 That's too kind 🤣


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## PACMAN (Feb 11, 2021)

Cheers - now I need to add a jug and thermometer to my shopping list...


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

PACMAN said:


> Cheers - now I need to add a jug and thermometer to my shopping list...


 I would suggest buying a couple. My small was too small, very hard to make it right before it's too hot...

My large is great, for my 1 massive cup, but makes 2 cups for my small cups lol I need a middle one 🤣

Thermometer is a must! I thought I was making it too hot, turns out I was about 15 degrees short lol


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Well I'll be damned..

It is a lot easier in a smaller cup, but I'm getting goooooood

Cant do a heart yet.. not sure why, I just keep doing these lol


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Best yet! 👍

I need to up my game! 😂


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Emily said:


> Best yet! 👍
> 
> I need to up my game! 😂


 Hey @Emilyif your portafilter keeps slipping back it sounds as though you may need a new gasket. Sage will sell you one for about a fiver if I remember rightly.

Failing that you can try giving it a good clean in soapy water. If it failing early, it may be you are over tightening the portafilter in the group.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

_HH_ said:


> Hey @Emilyif your portafilter keeps slipping back it sounds as though you may need a new gasket. Sage will sell you one for about a fiver if I remember rightly.
> 
> Failing that you can try giving it a good clean in soapy water. If it failing early, it may be you are over tightening the portafilter in the group.


 Nice profile picture, any tips for steaming milk for art 🤣


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So first cup... hot milk, literally just poured in and sank.

2nd cup, happy.

Do I need more or less bubbles ? To get more art.

Also, how much influence does the espresso have, and I mean by temperature, potential for definition/ separation? Light heavy? Dense with caffeine.. basically do I have another excuse for my lack of art 🤣


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## HVL87 (Dec 17, 2019)

Tinkstar said:


> So first cup... hot milk, literally just poured in and sank.
> 
> 2nd cup, happy.
> 
> ...


 You don't seem to have much contrast against the espresso. What dose and roast level are you using? And what size cup?

Also when you initially pour/mix the milk it's better to do so from a height, that way it sinks to the bottom and doesn't "stain" the top. When you're ready to pour the art you can stop and move the spout much closer.

It does look a tad thick, so maybe you could do with less foam and more incorporation. Not easy if you're using a classic?

As others have suggested it might be worth investing in a Motta pitcher which might help you to get the definition you are looking for.

Good progress though!


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

_HH_ said:


> Hey @Emilyif your portafilter keeps slipping back it sounds as though you may need a new gasket. Sage will sell you one for about a fiver if I remember rightly.
> 
> Failing that you can try giving it a good clean in soapy water. If it failing early, it may be you are over tightening the portafilter in the group.


 Thank you! But it was my fault - I was being too gentle with it and not twisting tightly enough. I am now being a lot firmer and I haven't had any more "accidents" 🤞😂


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So today I felt like its improving... better definition less thiiiick.

But also saw this so, you aint getting picture, check this out 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> But also saw this so, you aint getting picture, check this out 🤣
> 
> View attachment 55288


 Oh you're kidding me... 😂 that's insane!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Today I decided since receiving my 20g basket.. to try 1:1

20g in 21g out in 22 seconds.

Very excellent milk drink.. converted!!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So this is a constant look of my pucks, a ring around the edge, and what I assume is a channel.

This is a 20g vst basket and has 18.4g in

I will take a shot of the shower screen too... which is the upgraded ims (I forget the name)


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I assume the ring is the outer ring 🤷‍♂️


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> So this is a constant look of my pucks, a ring around the edge, and what I assume is a channel.
> 
> This is a 20g vst basket and has 18.4g in
> 
> ...


 Looking at this, I would suggest your filling your basket too much as you're getting an imprint of the dispersion plate ring (18.7g isn't massive however). Your grind also looks a bit too course looking at the Puck which might be why you're needing to go heavy on your dose. I had the same issue with my mdf grinder. But now with my niche I can go much finer and getting great results with a 15g dose.

I'm currently practicing my swans... Not there yet,not sure the GC can get much better results, I may need to upgrade my milk jug next... As a previous post, pouring height and angle is critical. I'm not there yet as I'm getting a shadow rather than very defined lines


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Gav86 said:


> Looking at this, I would suggest your filling your basket too much as you're getting an imprint of the dispersion plate ring (18.7g isn't massive however). Your grind also looks a bit too course looking at the Puck which might be why you're needing to go heavy on your dose. I had the same issue with my mdf grinder. But now with my niche I can go much finer and getting great results with a 15g dose.
> 
> I'm currently practicing my swans... Not there yet,not sure the GC can get much better results, I may need to upgrade my milk jug next... As a previous post, pouring height and angle is critical. I'm not there yet as I'm getting a shadow rather than very defined lines
> 
> View attachment 55388


 18g is still well under what I expect from a 20g basket....

Still playing with my grinder, no chance to spend more money on a grinder unless there is an uber deal in the sale section...

Epic art work! I'm just happy if I get milk that does something 🤣


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## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> 18g is still well under what I expect from a 20g basket....
> 
> Still playing with my grinder, no chance to spend more money on a grinder unless there is an uber deal in the sale section...
> 
> Epic art work! I'm just happy if I get milk that does something 🤣


 I have had 10+ years of practice! You'll get there. Yeah 18g is well under the size of the 20g vst, wonder what thickness your group head gasket is. If is warn out it might reduce the head height but I'm surprised it would be that much!

What grinder do you have?


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Hmm. This is really interesting @Tinkstar. I would agree it looks as though you are overdosing based on the impression in your puck. I would also agree that this shouldn't be happening based on you using a 20g basket! Your coffee does look very coarse however. I wonder whether tightening up the grind will allow the grounds to snug up a little closer and take up less space in the basket? What are your shot times like?

EDIT - it also looks as though your shower screen screw is sitting slightly proud of the screen, which would explain the divot in the middle of the puck. To me this definitely suggests the dose you are using is too high for the basket, despite the basket suggesting otherwise.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Gav86 said:


> I have had 10+ years of practice! You'll get there. Yeah 18g is well under the size of the 20g vst, wonder what thickness your group head gasket is. If is warn out it might reduce the head height but I'm surprised it would be that much!
> 
> What grinder do you have?


 My whole head unit is brand new, the shower part etc

If that's not what you mean can you explain more?

I'm using a baratza preciso


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

_HH_ said:


> Hmm. This is really interesting @Tinkstar. I would agree it looks as though you are overdosing based on the impression in your puck. I would also agree that this shouldn't be happening based on you using a 20g basket! Your coffee does look very coarse however. I wonder whether tightening up the grind will allow the grounds to snug up a little closer and take up less space in the basket? What are your shot times like?
> 
> EDIT - it also looks as though your shower screen screw is sitting slightly proud of the screen, which would explain the divot in the middle of the puck. To me this definitely suggests the dose you are using is too high for the basket, despite the basket suggesting otherwise.


 There is no imprint except when wet. The screw does look like it protrudes... I agree when I first fit the screen it made me feel off, was not the same with my standard.. but it is tight.. I just thought it might be a design flaw but they are the ones to buy 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Done a deep clean... my sprays are not even.... 🤦‍♂️

Does anyone get an even spray?


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## _HH_ (Oct 10, 2018)

Tinkstar said:


> Done a deep clean... my sprays are not even.... 🤦‍♂️
> 
> Does anyone get an even spray?
> 
> View attachment 55445


 Is the machine level? An easy way to check is to put a spirit level/the level app on an iPhone on your machine and put something under the feet if necessary to level it out.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

That day it all comes together.

So last night I tried to check my grinder, today I ground some beans and they were coarser than ever! So I flipped the top bur around and hey presto back to fine grounds. First pull 18g 18g out in 33 seconds so looks like I might have some scope for adjustment. Still on the finest setting...

But I made pretty heart (ish) shape.

I really like the colours of 1:1 and with milk think it tastes nicer 👍 feeling happier


----------



## Gav86 (Dec 10, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> My whole head unit is brand new, the shower part etc
> 
> If that's not what you mean can you explain more?
> 
> I'm using a baratza preciso


 the head gasket is in the head unit, around the shower screen/dispersion plate is a chucky gasket. The stock is black and about 8mm thick. I think you can get better silicone versions either 8 and 8.5mm (these are blue).

Only issue I foresee is if you install the thicker one, you may struggle to lock your PF in. I've not installed an 8.5mm so can't confirm.

Other thing to check on your IMS screen is the tightness of the centre screw and how flush it sits. I had a similar issue of channeling but found the screen could do be withing a little looser than very tight and rotate it a few degs to make sure it sits flush in the dispersion plate recess. You will know when it's right as you'll get an even flow when running some water through the screen


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Had a grinder upgrade.... 🙈🤣

It's a bit bigger... now to learn how to use this and make less mess, the box was clean on my old one. 🙈

Slight size difference too lol


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## Katfud (Sep 27, 2020)

There's something really pleasing to the eye about the new grinder.

Some good old industrial utilitarian charm. Looks like it weighs a ton too.

Best of luck!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Katfud said:


> There's something really pleasing to the eye about the new grinder.
> 
> Some good old industrial utilitarian charm. Looks like it weighs a ton too.
> 
> Best of luck!


 Yes I think next to the gaggia it looks really nice.. a niche would be amazing but would be out of place 🤣🤣🤣

It definitely is quieter, faster, and a hell of a lot finer!

And a lot messier 🤣


----------



## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> Yes I think next to the gaggia it looks really nice.. a niche would be amazing but would be out of place 🤣🤣🤣
> 
> It definitely is quieter, faster, and a hell of a lot finer!
> 
> And a lot messier 🤣


 Try a dosing cup/funnel, should make life a little less messy. Are you enjoying better tasting results though?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Kjk said:


> Try a dosing cup/funnel, should make life a little less messy. Are you enjoying better tasting results though?


 I've not managed to dial it in, been a a hectic two days

I'm currently learning how to use it.

Currently single dosing to limit waste while I dial in and only loosing 0.2g which is not bad at all.

Currently too fine, took 60 seconds for 20g this morning. Got some channeling on the second shot and got 30g, but it went 30 seconds 5g and 3 seconds the next 25g 🤣

I'm going to buy an hair pressure bazooka thing and then see how messy that is. If it's messy due to blasting I'll get a back plate and a dosing cup 👍


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

In what way is it messy?


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> In what way is it messy?


 It grinds really fast, but also static, it does 18g in like 3 seconds 🤣 and it's one directional out of the hole but kind of side ways but bouncies 🤷‍♂️ I need a longer funnel, or a bigger pf extension / dosing cup.

I'm also confused because its kind of clumpy but the shots are rather fast, so going to go finer and see if its grind size or if the puck is channeling. 🤷‍♂️


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> In what way is it messy?


 Also side note... dont managed one bloody bit or art recently... was going great getting better and better and then.. woke up one day and can't get a single non blob lol


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## ken0062 (May 19, 2017)

Think I would be tempted to try it with the Octopus funnel mod, see if there is any improvement.


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

ken0062 said:


> Think I would be tempted to try it with the Octopus funnel mod, see if there is any improvement.


 I'm trying to research the best method 👍 wongs seems the best but expensive 🤣


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

ken0062 said:


> Think I would be tempted to try it with the Octopus funnel mod, see if there is any improvement.


 O the funnel is the cylinder part. I have one! I need a £25 back plate.

My next step is to work out a way to push the grinds out.


----------



## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> It grinds really fast, but also static, it does 18g in like 3 seconds 🤣 and it's one directional out of the hole but kind of side ways but bouncies 🤷‍♂️ I need a longer funnel, or a bigger pf extension / dosing cup.


 Ah ok! I can picture that might make a mess lol. That is really quick grinding! Grind into large container? I never grind directly into portafilter as it doesn't catch everything.



Tinkstar said:


> Also side note... dont managed one bloody bit or art recently... was going great getting better and better and then.. woke up one day and can't get a single non blob lol


 Well me neither. The beans I have been using didn't taste good with milk so no point in even going there. Just been drinking them as espresso. Going to really try harder with the next bag as they are a different variety. 3 months down the line and I still haven't had a nice milk based drink let alone art! 😂


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Ah ok! I can picture that might make a mess lol. That is really quick grinding! Grind into large container? I never grind directly into portafilter as it doesn't catch everything.
> 
> Well me neither. The beans I have been using didn't taste good with milk so no point in even going there. Just been drinking them as espresso. Going to really try harder with the next bag as they are a different variety. 3 months down the line and I still haven't had a nice milk based drink let alone art! 😂


 Whats not nice ?

Blackcat is working well with milk, i have not dialed in the tasting notes and it's still a nice coffee drink 🤷‍♂️

Even gave 1/3 to a friend to try


----------



## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> Whats not nice ?


 Either it tastes really hard and bitter or just tastes completely rank lol - like mixing orange juice and milk.

I did a bit of research and it said that the milk highlights any sourness or bitterness in the espresso and basically the espresso isn't quite right rather than any rubbish milk heating technique I am using 😂

Not giving up on it yet! I spent £20 on new cups for this and I'm bloody well getting some use out of them! So I'm going back to chocolate point too as it's easier to dial in (in my opinion).


----------



## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Either it tastes really hard and bitter or just tastes completely rank lol - like mixing orange juice and milk.
> 
> I did a bit of research and it said that the milk highlights any sourness or bitterness in the espresso and basically the espresso isn't quite right rather than any rubbish milk heating technique I am using 😂
> 
> Not giving up on it yet! I spent £20 on new cups for this and I'm bloody well getting some use out of them! So I'm going back to chocolate point too as it's easier to dial in (in my opinion).


 I've experienced really bitter latte, and very strong gritty coffee taste. But I wouldn't say rank. Must be the beans... what are the flavour notes.. not orange I hope or pineapple 🤣🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> Must be the beans... what are the flavour notes.. not orange I hope or pineapple 🤣🤣


 Hmmmmm. Wine and red fruits if I recall correctly 😂


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Made a nice flat white for the first time ☺ So, used a much smaller shot of coffee (it's only a 5.5 oz cup!) and steamed my milk to the perfect texture BUT ... milk wasn't quite hot enough. Bit of a lukewarm flat white but at least it was very drinkable. The last one went straight down the sink 😂 I'm making progress which makes me happy, yay! No latte art though, I don't think there will ever be art..


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Made a nice flat white for the first time ☺ 😂


 I edited your post 🤣 keep to the positive woot!


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So here is a collection of this week's wins... having more wins than fails atm.

I think I was using the steam too soon. Since I have a pid I can see the temp rising, and I was starting at 120, but if I start at 130-135 I get full steam and instant swirl of the milk.


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## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

Nice one @Tinkstar After practising for over a week I've finally got the right texture so that the milk floats of the surface (my problem had been, I think, not getting enough integration of bubbles in the pitcher to start with). Here's my latest effort. I need to keep practising I think! 😬

ps know i'm making life hard for myself anyway with tulip glasses... but just prefer the drinking experience











Tinkstar said:


> So here is a collection of this week's wins... having more wins than fails atm.
> 
> I think I was using the steam too soon. Since I have a pid I can see the temp rising, and I was starting at 120, but if I start at 130-135 I get full steam and instant swirl of the milk.
> View attachment 56274


 @EmilyDefinitely agree the cups make the world of difference. Hope it's now living up to them...!



Emily said:


> Either it tastes really hard and bitter or just tastes completely rank lol - like mixing orange juice and milk.
> 
> I did a bit of research and it said that the milk highlights any sourness or bitterness in the espresso and basically the espresso isn't quite right rather than any rubbish milk heating technique I am using 😂
> 
> Not giving up on it yet! I spent £20 on new cups for this and I'm bloody well getting some use out of them! So I'm going back to chocolate point too as it's easier to dial in (in my opinion).


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## LMartin (Nov 28, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> It grinds really fast, but also static, it does 18g in like 3 seconds 🤣 and it's one directional out of the hole but kind of side ways but bouncies 🤷‍♂️ I need a longer funnel, or a bigger pf extension / dosing cup.
> 
> I'm also confused because its kind of clumpy but the shots are rather fast, so going to go finer and see if its grind size or if the puck is channeling. 🤷‍♂️


 @Tinkstar On the static - you tried spritzing a bit of water on beans before you grind them / stirring in a few drops of water? Good static hack


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

LMartin said:


> @Tinkstar On the static - you tried spritzing a bit of water on beans before you grind them / stirring in a few drops of water? Good static hack


 Other than the mess is static an actual concern? I don't mind as it's caught on the funnel 🤷‍♂️


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> So here is a collection of this week's wins... having more wins than fails atm.


 An excellent set of latte art @Tinkstar!

how is the new grinder getting on? Still making a mess?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> An excellent set of latte art @Tinkstar!
> 
> how is the new grinder getting on? Still making a mess?


 So I bought one of those torpedo air things, and that makes more of a mess 🤣

Waiting for a back plate then I can try the octopus thing and a cup to dose, catch grinds.

I loose about 1-2g when grinding, kind of give it a knock and it grinds the last bits. Stick a stick up and get some grinds out, almost in for out 🤷‍♂️

Not that messy now really. And it's sensitive on the grind settings hehe it's great


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> Waiting for a back plate then I can try the octopus thing and a cup to dose, catch grinds.


 Amazing how this coffee lark leads to one purchase after another 😂 Need a bottomless wallet. I am determined to buy nothing more other than beans lol!



Tinkstar said:


> Not that messy now really. And it's sensitive on the grind settings hehe it's great


 That's good! I have managed to get my coffee making mess quite minimal now. My partner did once ask why he kept finding coffee grinds EVERYWHERE! After I have done the tamping, I blow across the top of the puck and all the loose stuff goes whoosh...


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Emily said:


> Amazing how this coffee lark leads to one purchase after another 😂 Need a bottomless wallet. I am determined to buy nothing more other than beans lol!
> 
> That's good! I have managed to get my coffee making mess quite minimal now. My partner did once ask why he kept finding coffee grinds EVERYWHERE! After I have done the tamping, I blow across the top of the puck and all the loose stuff goes whoosh...


 I think I found out why your partner is finding coffee beans every where 💨💨💨💨💨


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Soooo I made a lovely coffee today.

Won't be to everybody's taste but was liquice/ treacle esq. Does this mean I just burnt it, or does it mean I am getting close to dialing in? Tasted of this before and with milk 😆


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tinkstar said:


> Soooo I made a lovely coffee today.
> 
> Won't be to everybody's taste but was liquice/ treacle esq. Does this mean I just burnt it, or does it mean I am getting close to dialing in? Tasted of this before and with milk 😆


 If tastes good , is good .

re burning coffee , considering it's been in a roaster prior to brewing I don't think anything you do is gonna burn it .


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> If tastes good , is good .
> 
> re burning coffee , considering it's been in a roaster prior to brewing I don't think anything you do is gonna burn it .


 I'm only asking in the golden chalice mission.

I went a smidge coarser, I really liked it so wont be changing yet... but first non bitter for awhile. I know I over extract as I have gone from choking towards coarser... but this just tasted different (finally) and nice to me 😁 but I'm still hunting syrup, chocolate, Hazel tastes lol


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tinkstar said:


> I'm only asking in the golden chalice mission.
> 
> I went a smidge coarser, I really liked it so wont be changing yet... but first non bitter for awhile. I know I over extract as I have gone from choking towards coarser... but this just tasted different (finally) and nice to me 😁 but I'm still hunting syrup, chocolate, Hazel tastes lol


 Some advice if I may

Bitter doesn't equal over extraction

if you have been pulling really short ratios then there is little chance you are over extracting

Focus on how it tastes good/bad , not labelling it with a term for measurement that you are not measuring .


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> Some advice if I may
> 
> Bitter doesn't equal over extraction
> 
> ...


 Well, my shots all tasted bitter until this one. I am measuring through taste, in a sense I am keeping the same grams in, grams out, observing time but nothing more than that. And going coarser as I started at the choking point. So I assume over extraction (this term may be wrong) but was just a term.

I am letting taste lead me, trying to keep all things the same, except slowly going coarse.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

My art is consistently of some quality as per this picture.

Still working on tasting notes, though it's now been confirmed by a coffee drinker mine is cafe style sit down and enjoy, not a punch to the face coffee drink from instant...

I take my wins where ever I can get them.

Did go to a local coffee shop when taking the car for its dreaded MOT, feeling confident my art was better and my coffee smoother... again an excellent win.


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So question on grind setting.

I can get nice smooth coffee flavoured drinks, both espresso and latte.

Occasionally a liquorice flavour which I love 🤷‍♂️

I started from a choking point, never really had random squirts the odd occasional channelling I assumed by the gapping canyon of a hole in the puck post shot. But i have worked My self coarser until I found smooth Coffee, and have been going coarser until I find sour 🤷‍♂️ happy to experiment etc.

But my question is, as I have got coarser I seem to get more jets shooting out, really really fine water jets, is this due to my grind being toooooo coarse? Or my post grind -> tamp method? I also seem to get more channeling. So was tempted to adjust to finer again to stabilise my shot pull.

Thoughts please 🙌 thank you 😊


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

So, to get more definition whats the difference, to get more definition do I need the smallest bit more air? Or a different coffee?


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## Tinkstar (Nov 27, 2020)

I feel like I'm always a needle away from perfect milk 🤣 too little too much, still able to do something.. but I want that milk from YouTube 🤣


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## Emily (Dec 27, 2020)

I think those recent efforts are excellent. Really good definition. The one above slightly less so 👏


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Coming along nicely


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Tinkstar said:


> So question on grind setting.
> 
> I can get nice smooth coffee flavoured drinks, both espresso and latte.
> 
> ...


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