# Piccino upgrade - Nice to know



## Drewster

Hi Chaps

I am eagerly awaiting the delivery of a Fracino Piccino and:

a) Thought I'd say hello on the Fracino bit....

b) Thought I'd ask if you can give me any heads up on stuff I need to know 

This is a pretty big upgrade as I am currently using a knackered old Gaggia Selecta (to be fair she has done me well as she only cost a tenner).

I have an SJ so grinder shouldn't be an issue.

I never bothered to steam milk with the Gaggia - as I doubt she is up to it (I just microwaved milk for my drinks - so no texture/microfoam just hot milk)

So I fully expect to have a bit of fun with steaming milk... and I think the Piccino should do me proud there.

Any other general tips?

Cheers


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## Yes Row

Practise with water and a drop of washing up liquid?

Prepare to be disappointed as in my experience, a change of equipment never gives immediate "better" results but you will get there


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## Foz

No particular advice required other than to repeat don't expect immediate success (but great if it comes). If you do run into any problems or need specific guidance just ask.


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## Coffee Dog

I've had a Piccino for about 2 months now so not really in a position to lecture, however...

I've found 16g gets quite good results.

The stock tamper is a waste of plastic. A proper one is definitely worth it, but i guess you already have one?

Steams milk very quickly! I get better foam using more milk then I need.


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## Bruce Boogie

I'm a new Piccino user (Christmas 2014) and I'm loving it with RAVE Italian Job coffee - wonderful stuff.

I'm getting the ratios right at the moment and the PF hasn't flown off for a while.

Enjoy.


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## Drewster

Coffee Dog said:


> I've had a Piccino for about 2 months now so not really in a position to lecture, however...
> 
> I've found 16g gets quite good results.
> 
> The stock tamper is a waste of plastic. A proper one is definitely worth it, but i guess you already have one?
> 
> Steams milk very quickly! I get better foam using more milk then I need.


I am looking forward to steaming milk.... albeit with slight trepidation.



Bruce Boogie said:


> I'm a new Piccino user (Christmas 2014) and I'm loving it with RAVE Italian Job coffee - wonderful stuff.
> 
> I'm getting the ratios right at the moment and the *PF hasn't flown off for a while.*
> 
> *
> *
> 
> Enjoy.


Ooooooo flying pf!!! :-O


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## Bruce Boogie

Having owned a Piccino for a month I'm now not quite the raw amateur that I was.

Quite a bit of ground coffee ended in the bin and now I'm starting to get the knack.

A decent tamper, well half decent from China, RAVE Italian Job coffee and getting used to the little Fracino grinder has enabled me to have the best double espresso so far this morning - RESULT.

I'm no milk steamer but the steam is powerful for such a little machine ~ two boilers I suppose.


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## Drewster

Bruce Boogie said:


> Having owned a Piccino for a month I'm now not quite the raw amateur that I was.
> 
> Quite a bit of ground coffee ended in the bin and now I'm starting to get the knack.
> 
> A decent tamper, well half decent from China, RAVE Italian Job coffee and getting used to the little Fracino grinder has enabled me to have the best double espresso so far this morning - RESULT.
> 
> I'm no milk steamer but the steam is powerful for such a little machine ~ two boilers I suppose.


Any tips welcome....

So far:

1) Very quick shot plus hot milk... drinkable but that's all (no surprise - it was my first play with a new toy and I just chucked it in....)

Tighten up grind..

2) Abject failure.... initial choke then water spurting and gushing everywhere...

Mmmmm cocked up something there...

3-circa 7) Twiddle & tweak grind - more abject failures all sink shots... mainly choke then explode

Getting frustrated (which means I balls it up even more, lose any consistency) - So call it a day to chill.

8) (a few hours later) still sh*te.. and in the sink

Loosen grind a tad....

9) Far too fast but actually drinkable.....

At least light at the end of the tunnel!!!

I wonder if my Burrs are knackered as this seems to be flip-flop between gush and choke (or am I just looking for excuses)....

Chill for a bit and I'll try again later... maybe pish about playing with steaming milk


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## Mrboots2u

Here is my standard ripsote

What are you dosing and extracting ( by weight )

What's too fast ? How many grams and in how many seconds ....?

Whats sink about them ? Too sour , bitter ?

Id start with your distribution as the cause of inconsistent shots ( spurting and gushing as adjectives suggests you are using a naked pf ? ) If so get brave and put a clip of the prep and shot up please

I am presuming you have decent coffee thats adequately rested


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## Eyedee

I found steaming easier when I blocked up one of the holes with a cocktail stick end. Gave me more control (I thought) over the speed of things.

Ian


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## jeebsy

Excuse me if this has been said somewhere else but what grinder are you using?


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Excuse me if this has been said somewhere else but what grinder are you using?


Sj


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## jeebsy

I found the Oscar to be very demanding in terms if prep compared to ny classic after getting it, maybe this is the same. I'd make sure thats nailed before changing burrs etc


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## Bruce Boogie

What have I learned so far?

1. I used nearly 1kg of beans getting the grinder somewhere near!

2. As soon as I went onto the RAVE Italian Job beans the old setting was useless!

3. I wasted more and had rubbish coffee for a while and splurging from the machine!

4. I'm getting there after four shots a day.

5. 16g of beans no more as the PF doesn't like it

6. I was tamping too hard and grinding too fine.

7. 5cc of liquid in 40 seconds is not right.

8. Be prepared to waste beans and coffee rather than drink rubbish.

9. Patience!

10. Persevere towards the goal of great coffee.

I'm sticking with RAVE IJ coffee for a while, then the only variables are the grind and the tamp. I find feeling the tamp pressure is tricky, but I'm improving.

Good luck and keep me up to date.


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## Drewster

Mrboots2u said:


> Here is my standard ripsote
> 
> What are you dosing and extracting ( by weight )
> 
> What's too fast ? How many grams and in how many seconds ....?
> 
> Whats sink about them ? Too sour , bitter ?
> 
> Id start with your distribution as the cause of inconsistent shots ( spurting and gushing as adjectives suggests you are using a naked pf ? ) If so get brave and put a clip of the prep and shot up please
> 
> I am presuming you have decent coffee thats adequately rested


Dose: 18g aiming for 30g

Too fast = about a bucket in about the blink of an eye..... Seriously say 45-50g in 12-15sec so obviously wrong I just stopped it (but these were drinkable ie they were recognisably coffee albeit they looked like brew not espresso)

Sink = Dirty dishwater... that I wouldn't even think of tasting

Sorry wasn't quite clear enough in the description of spurting/gushing....

Other than the particularly fast ones (which came out of the spout - but pretty fast)

The spurting & gushing is water squirting out all over the place, pretty well everywhere except the spouts.... after a pause when nothing happened..

I think a-Too fine a grind initially choking, (Tamped too hard???) and then the explosion due to probably not seating the pf properly!!

The coffee is the current LSOL.

No way on this earth am I videoing this disaster area for anyone to take the piss out of!!!

The distribution, prep etc is pretty much how I did it for the Gaggia but obviously the Piccino has more umph etc!!

I wil persevere!!!



Eyedee said:


> I found steaming easier when I blocked up one of the holes with a cocktail stick end. Gave me more control (I thought) over the speed of things.
> 
> Ian


Thanks - but I haven't even started on proper steaming



jeebsy said:


> Excuse me if this has been said somewhere else but what grinder are you using?





Mrboots2u said:


> Sj


That's right


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## Drewster

jeebsy said:


> I found the Oscar to be very demanding in terms if prep compared to ny classic after getting it, maybe this is the same. I'd make sure thats nailed before changing burrs etc


 I think you are right.... I am just trying to deflect from my crappy technique!!


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## Drewster

Bruce Boogie said:


> What have I learned so far?
> 
> 1. I used nearly 1kg of beans getting the grinder somewhere near!
> 
> 2. As soon as I went onto the RAVE Italian Job beans the old setting was useless!
> 
> 3. *I wasted more and had rubbish coffee for a while and splurging from the machine*!
> 
> 4. I'm getting there after four shots a day.
> 
> 5. *16g of beans no more as the PF doesn't like it*
> 
> 6. *I was tamping too hard and grinding too fine*.
> 
> 7. 5cc of liquid in 40 seconds is not right.
> 
> 8. Be prepared to waste beans and coffee rather than drink rubbish.
> 
> 9. Patience!
> 
> 10. Persevere towards the goal of great coffee.
> 
> I'm sticking with RAVE IJ coffee for a while, then the only variables are the grind and the tamp. I find feeling the tamp pressure is tricky, but I'm improving.
> 
> Good luck and keep me up to date.


These seem familiar!!!


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## Drewster

Drewster said:


> I think you are right.... I am just trying to deflect from my crappy technique!!


Well things are looking up...

Tried again last night:

(As an aside - I actually swapped the basket from my old pf with the new one. But they are the same - side by side I couldn't tell them apart.)

Tried to "ignore" it being a new machine and just go through "the ritual".....

Weigh..

Grind..

Flappy paddle..

Brush..

etc..

Into pf..

Tap Tap..

Tamper on top..

Press (just fingers)..

Twist/polish..

Lock in pf..

Hit the switch..

1... 2... 3... etc

Watch scales... 28.. 29.. 30!

Hit switch..

Swap out cup for drip catching cup (my old Gaggia used to drip for several seconds post switch off)

Yeeeeee Haaaaaa!!!

A shot of something that looks remarkably like espresso!!!

TBH Not a great crema but dilligaf? Nice body, sticking to the sides, fairly "thick"...

Perfectly palatable and acceptable shot - Nothing to dance about but nothing to be ashamed of!!

Got up this morning and tried again "forget it is a new machine and just do it!".... Yep very similar result...

Got back from walking dogs... try again "FIISNMAJDI".... Yep very similar result...

Just goes to prove "consistency is king!"..... I must stick to routine without "trying too hard".....


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## Bruce Boogie

HURRAH ~ it's not luck it's method.

The experienced Baristas are probably giggling at all of this ~ but they know it's a learning curve


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## Drewster

Bruce Boogie said:


> HURRAH ~ it's not luck it's method.
> 
> The experienced Baristas are probably giggling at all of this ~ but they know it's a learning curve


When you are experienced and know and understand something it is very easy to think that *it* is just common sense, forgetting that at some point you had to learn stuff.

In my day-job (IT) there is stuff that, to me, is so basic that it doesn't need saying but when I am dealing with less experienced bods these basics suddenly become complex and need to be thought about and analysed - in fact taught/learnt.

I can, with my 25+ years of experience, switch (sometimes multiple times daily) between technologies/tools/languages/methodologies etc when some people I work with can only really cope with a single tool/method. So it isn't really a shock that my simple and single skill set picked up over a short time on a Gaggia isn't immediately transferable to a Fracino even though they basically do the same thing.

I am getting there........


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## Mrboots2u

Perhaps it was the baskets ????


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## Bruce Boogie

I'm busy editing cartoons on Photoshop and I'm zipping through them, people then say how do you know what you're doing?

The thing is PS has a million functions I know nothing about!!

Life is picking up skills


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## The Systemic Kid

Just listened to your website music - made me smile


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## Drewster

Mrboots2u said:


> Perhaps it was the baskets ????


Nah! I explored the "lucky basket" scenario... when it worked with my old basket I examined them both... No difference that I could tell visually. So I have swapped back and forth a couple of times.... "shuffled" them... and now don't know which is which!


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## Mrboots2u

Ok...it's you then /


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## Drewster

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok...it's you then /


Yep PICNIC, EBCAK or even ID-10T PEBKAC Error

(*P*roblem *I*n *C*hair *N*ot *I*n *C*omputer) (*E*rror *B*etween *C*hair *A*nd *K*eyboard) (*IDIOT* error *P*roblem *E*xists *B*etween *K*eyboard *A*nd *C*hair)


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## Coffee Dog

Bruce Boogie said:


> What have I learned so far?
> 
> 1. I used nearly 1kg of beans getting the grinder somewhere near!
> 
> 2. As soon as I went onto the RAVE Italian Job beans the old setting was useless!
> 
> 3. I wasted more and had rubbish coffee for a while and splurging from the machine!
> 
> 4. I'm getting there after four shots a day.
> 
> 5. 16g of beans no more as the PF doesn't like it
> 
> 6. I was tamping too hard and grinding too fine.
> 
> 7. 5cc of liquid in 40 seconds is not right.
> 
> 8. Be prepared to waste beans and coffee rather than drink rubbish.
> 
> 9. Patience!
> 
> 10. Persevere towards the goal of great coffee.
> 
> I'm sticking with RAVE IJ coffee for a while, then the only variables are the grind and the tamp. I find feeling the tamp pressure is tricky, but I'm improving.
> 
> Good luck and keep me up to date.


Similar story with me. Just had a cappuccino and it was pretty good for a novice I guess.

Still having difficulty with the micro foam. And tonight's espresso came out a bit too fast so have tightened the grind a little.

Nearly out of beans so time to order something new


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## Bruce Boogie

aNd what do new beans mean . . . NEW GRINDER SETTINGS !

Good luck.


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## Coffee Dog

Bruce Boogie said:


> aNd what do new beans mean . . . NEW GRINDER SETTINGS !
> 
> Good luck.


Argh!!

It's taking a while to dial the grinder in for the new beans. Can't believe the difference it makes!

Very frustrating and have run out of patience this week.


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## Drewster

Getting into a bit of stability  having eased the grind just a fraction and just stuck at it!

Hitting nominal target 30g in 25ish.

Still using the LSOL beans... tbh it's all I have at the moment.

Shots are generally all pretty good body, a tad "harsh" as espresso but I am playing with the steam wand anyway and they are nice as flatwhite.

I wouldn't say they are perfect but I am sticking to a single routine to get consistency (even if not sublime).

(As an aside apart from one happy accident I haven't been blown away with these beans - they are OK but not earth shattering - although given the machine change it's probably not fair to judge too harshly)

I am getting a bit of variation in crema.. some shots with almost none some with a fair amount (none with loads/guiness levels).

I am only playing with the steam wand at the moment...

I steamed a few in a mug.... then picked up a jug in a charidee shop and am using that..

Not even attempting "art" just basically getting it hot with a bit of froth (which is so much better psychologically than micro-waved)

Incidentally I have dropped my dose ever so slightly... still circa 18g but tending on the 17.9... not 18.1... (I used to tend towards "just over" now "just under") I dunno if a couple of beans per dose makes a real difference but as it's working I'll stick to it ;-)


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## Bruce Boogie

I'm getting much better consistency by keeping working on the same beans.

16g suits my machine and any more tends to create problems.

Tamping is also getting more consistent.

Nothing like experience is there.

Miro, St Owens Street, Hereford make very good coffee. I was talking about it with one of the crew, they spend 40 minutes at the end of every day cleaning the coffee machine and grinder.


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## Coffee Dog

Bruce Boogie said:


> I'm getting much better consistency by keeping working on the same beans.
> 
> 16g suits my machine and any more tends to create problems.
> 
> Tamping is also getting more consistent.
> 
> Nothing like experience is there.
> 
> Miro, St Owens Street, Hereford make very good coffee. I was talking about it with one of the crew, they spend 40 minutes at the end of every day cleaning the coffee machine and grinder.


Ok so still haven't dialed in my grinder for the has bean jailbreak blend. Can't behind the difference a brew bean makes. 16g is way below the line in the basket whilst rave's was spot on. I've wasted 3/4 of the pack adjusting grind and dose but have got no where.

All well- I've always got my trusty Porlex and Aeropress !


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## hotmetal

Bruce Boogie said:


> I'm busy editing cartoons on Photoshop and I'm zipping through them, people then say how do you know what you're doing?
> 
> The thing is PS has a million functions I know nothing about!!
> 
> Life is picking up skills


I've been using Photoshop every day since version 2 (not CS2 I mean 1995 with no layers and one undo back in the days when Macs were beige!). There are still things I don't know. It's the same with coffee. And I definitely subscribe to the theory that you can over analyse things and make a total hash, but the times when you just switch your brain off and do something without thinking it just clicks. That has been my experience with lots of things.


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## johnnygee04

Following the death of my Gaggia Classic, I bought a 5 month old Piccino from eBay. I really like this machine for it's build quality, temperature stability and the consistent and unfussy way it produces coffee. I guess this has been helped by the fact that I've not needed to change either the grind or tamp pressure that I used for the Gaggia to get a fantastic brew. Now I may not be as exacting as some members of this forum, but my taste buds can recognise a bad shot and so far the only example of this has been when my missus uses her pre-ground Lavazza which is too coarse a grind and blows through too quickly. I never steamed with the Gaggia, but I'm looking forward to giving it a go with this very capable machine. At present I'm using a Gaggia grinder with my favourite Monsoon Malabar beans from our local Booths, but hope to compliment the Piccino with an upgrade soon.


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## johnnygee04

What's your opinion on the Piccino grinder? A friend just recommended the Italian Job beans and along with your comments have persuaded me to order some.


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## Bruce Boogie

I really like the IJ beans, not saying they;re the best, but jolly good value and jolly good flavour.

The Piccino grinder works fine once I got the hang of it. I tried little turns of the dial and wasted a lot of beans. Adjusting it seems to come in half turns! I tried some beans a friend brought over and I had to turn the dial three and a half turns to get to anything like a good grind. I went straight back to IJ.

The grinder is a bit lightweight and I have to hold it when pushing in for grinds, I also have to knock it about a bit to get all the grinds out.

I'm mostly making two coffees a day, not really worth a massive upgrade :-(


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## johnnygee04

Thanks for your thoughts on the grinder. I'm desperate to upgrade my budget Gaggia grinder to experience the taste difference that will come with a better quality machine. I was caught out when my old espresso machine expired and it was good luck that brought the Piccino my way so soon afterwards. I'm reading as much as I can to make an informed decision, but still scouring eBay just incase something catches my eye.


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## Bruce Boogie

The grinder depends on how much space, how much use, how much money, etc.

I wouldn't want a dozer with a great big cone on top.

I put 16g of beans in and grind and do this twice a day.

The Piccino grinder does fine for this.


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## Coffee Dog

johnnygee04 said:


> Thanks for your thoughts on the grinder. I'm desperate to upgrade my budget Gaggia grinder to experience the taste difference that will come with a better quality machine. I was caught out when my old espresso machine expired and it was good luck that brought the Piccino my way so soon afterwards. I'm reading as much as I can to make an informed decision, but still scouring eBay just incase something catches my eye.


I've gone back to using an aeropress and difference between my wee porlex, my bro-in-laws MDF and the mazer mini is huge! As everyone says, definitely invest more money in a grinder.


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## urpert

Looking forward to taking over Coffee Dog's Piccino and seeing where I get with it!


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