# Hand / Manual grinder dilemma



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

This is the thing: I am after a hang / manual grinder, as I would like to have different beans on the same day (decaf and caffeinated), and my grinder is not great for single dosing.

So, I've been researching the Pharos, the Lido E, the HG-1 and the Kinu M68, which I like very much (on paper). The Sette is also an option, but that's early days and I have my doubts.

There is one thing: The only hand / manual grinder I ever had was a Porlex mini, and, let's be frank, the novelty of manual grinding worn out after 2 months, as it would take over 1 minute (more like 2) to grind 18 grams of coffee for espresso. That was also my first grinder.

So, the issue I have is that I don't really want to buy something just to regret it and send it back or sell it on.

Is there a place that anyone knows where I could try at least one of those grinders out?

Thanks in advance.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Are the decaff & caffeinated coffee both for your consumption?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Are the decaff & caffeinated coffee both for your consumption?


Yes.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm pondering the kinu, but I anticipate it having downsides or quirks that I couldn't live with long-term, things that have already come out from honest forum feedback on the other grinders you've mentioned. It really needs neutral reviews to fill the gaps. My concern with all the hand grinders is faff after grinding - last thing I want after twenty turns of a handle is to have to whisk up grinds just to get decent distribution (hg1 users). That's after any actual grinding issues dependent on roast profile or wind direction. I think I'm talking myself into a mythos.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Does it really matter then if you have to do a little purging between beans?

Otherwise it just seems like you're giving them an uneven playing field & potentially different recipes? 2mins grinding 18g for espresso on a Porlex seems a very conservative estimate , even a Lido E will be a chore compared to the ease of an electric grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yep Hausgrind at 14 g for Aeropress can be a bore after a while







Espresso i did for a while and was not fun ....


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I think all these grinders should be a lot quicker than the Porlex. Especially HG-1, Pharos and M68. Looking





 it only seems to be take 20 seconds maximum.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Can't you buy another T64 for the price of a HG-1?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Does it really matter then if you have to do a little purging between beans?
> 
> Otherwise it just seems like you're giving them an uneven playing field & potentially different recipes?


I am not quite following, sorry. When you say purging between beans, I will need to purge some (so the burrs are clean), adjust the grinder to the required setting and then purge the chute. That's quite a few grams, almost a double shot in total I'd say.

I've tried before to sweep the chute clean (similar design to a Mazzer SJ) but I found the result in the cup not great. In fact, rather thin and very bland.

Also, not sure what you mean by your second statement. The idea of having one of those grinders is that so I would be able to follow the same recipe (say, 18g in -> 36g out in ~30s) for any of the beans.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Grahamg said:


> I'm pondering the kinu, but I anticipate it having downsides or quirks that I couldn't live with long-term, things that have already come out from honest forum feedback on the other grinders you've mentioned. It really needs neutral reviews to fill the gaps. My concern with all the hand grinders is faff after grinding - last thing I want after twenty turns of a handle is to have to whisk up grinds just to get decent distribution (hg1 users). That's after any actual grinding issues dependent on roast profile or wind direction. I think I'm talking myself into a mythos.


I have exactly the same feelings Grahamg. Hence why before I buy anything I'd like to try it first, at least to have an idea.

Christian from Kinu has been great and been answering my questions regarding the Kinu M68 on a Sunday evening. That's what I call customer support!

He even said I could return the grinder within 14d if I don't like it, but part of me just don't want to spend over 688 EUR for something that looks great, without having the ability to see it in the flesh first.

I've been reading the Dutch, Romanian and German forums which have quite a bit of feedback on it (Thank goodness for Google Translate!) and, as the majority of the feedback is positive, it seems that the same old issues and quirks are still there, which according to what I read are mainly related to electric static charges.

Mythos? Man, I wish I could afford the space! I only bought the grinder I have is because it was the best grinder I could afford which would fit into the space I have. Thus, my idea would be that, if I could get an HG One or Kinu M68, eventually it would replace my electric grinder.

And that's the dilemma: Is a manual grinder the right thing for me? I wish I could see / try one, but seems that they aren't available anywhere in this country in a show room. :-(


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Can't you buy another T64 for the price of a HG-1?


See the other post (before this one). Space is at a premium... :-(


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

pessutojr said:


> I am not quite following, sorry. When you say purging between beans, I will need to purge some (so the burrs are clean), adjust the grinder to the required setting and then purge the chute. That's quite a few grams, almost a double shot in total I'd say.
> 
> I've tried before to sweep the chute clean (similar design to a Mazzer SJ) but I found the result in the cup not great. In fact, rather thin and very bland.
> 
> Also, not sure what you mean by your second statement. The idea of having one of those grinders is that so I would be able to follow the same recipe (say, 18g in -> 36g out in ~30s) for any of the beans.


What if one grinder takes a longer/shorter shot to hit the same extraction, you could end up trying to pull them all at the same ratio and one maybe tasting sour. Ratio & recipe aren't the same thing.

Why do the burrs need to be clean, if you don't have an intolerance and are just doing this to curb your caffeine intake, a few grounds of caff beans is no more the end of the world than it would be if you were changing beans normally.

A couple of the hand grinders you mention cost as much as your electric grinder & take up as big a footprint...it just seems odd that you think a hand grinder is what you want to switch between beans. I mean it could well be, as all you mention will have next to no retention compared to most electric...but the difference between grinding with an electric grinder in a couple of tens of seconds & hand grinding seems destined to highlight the faff...I just don't see the honeymoon lasting all that long. I'm all for hand grinding, but then I don't see why you'd keep the electric.

Lido E will take much longer to grind than Pharos, HG-1 & presumably the Kinu M68 (can't see any firm pricing for that?). But it's very light, no real footprint, relatively cheap & is great for brewed coffee if it doesn't work out as your decaf grinder.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but it does seem you are setting yourself up for disappointment (which you said you wanted to avoid).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> What if one grinder takes a longer/shorter shot to hit the same extraction, you could end up trying to pull them all at the same ratio and one maybe tasting sour. Ratio & recipe aren't the same thing.
> 
> Why do the burrs need to be clean, if you don't have an intolerance and are just doing this to curb your caffeine intake, a few grounds of caff beans is no more the end of the world than it would be if you were changing beans normally.
> 
> ...


Thanks. From what you are saying, and others, it seems so, that a hang grinder for me won't be a great idea at all, and hence why I'd love to be able to try one before I buy it.

The idea as mentioned in previous post would be that I would just keep the manual grinder if I like it. However, it seems that this is not the greatest idea due to highlighting of the faff. 

Re: Cleaning burrs: I was alluding more to the fact that I would then be able to set the adjustment for that particular bean. For example, I cannot tighten the grinder (grind finer) without the burrs spinning. Therefore, I would need to make sure there are no grinds in the chamber / between burrs in order to do so.

Re: Kinu M68, 668 EUR + 23 EUR P&P delivered to the UK (That's from Christian directly - I've contacted him by

Once again, thanks. Appreciate your opinions and advice, and I think you all just reinforced what I already thought.

All I wanted to achieve from this was to gather some opinions about manual grinders and whether there's a place that they can be seen / tried before they could be bought.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks for all the input here, much appreciated. I think the best solution for me after some deliberation is to invest in a Lido E or similar just for decaf, and keep my electric grinder for the regular stuff.

Once again, thanks.


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## doru (Sep 27, 2016)

@pessutojr

If you ever have way in London you're welcome to come and have a look at my M47...it's not M68 but just so you get the idea.

I was also weary of getting a manual but to be honest I have no regrets going for one and really enjoying the process of manually grinding the beans,feels more personal,more old school...yeah,I'm old at just 36 lol


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## woop (Jan 6, 2017)

have you looked at the rok?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

woop said:


> have you looked at the rok?


Yes. Doesn't appeal to me at all.


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## yoshi005 (Sep 2, 2015)

One opinion from a hand grinding enthusiast: I have switched from an electric grinder to a Mahlgut MG1 hand grinder one year ago. I grind 18g in 12sec, not counting the weighing and dosing. For me the advantages outweigh the effort of cranking.

I can switch beans instantly without any faff, do not need any ppurging when adjusting the grinder and I save nearly a quarter of my coffee. I drink 4 espressi in the morning and 2 in the evening. To avoid stale coffe, with my electric grinder I had to purge 10g in the morning before pulling my shot and 10g in the evening. For 60g og my espresso I pruge 29g. Plus: I do not have to worry about retention anymore.

If you are already single dosing, handgrinding does not add much time and effort. If you do nor want to weigh every dose, I would not consider hand grinding.


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## doru (Sep 27, 2016)

+1 @yoshi005


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

yoshi005 said:


> One opinion from a hand grinding enthusiast: I have switched from an electric grinder to a Mahlgut MG1 hand grinder one year ago. I grind 18g in 12sec, not counting the weighing and dosing. For me the advantages outweigh the effort of cranking.
> 
> I can switch beans instantly without any faff, do not need any ppurging when adjusting the grinder and I save nearly a quarter of my coffee. I drink 4 espressi in the morning and 2 in the evening. To avoid stale coffe, with my electric grinder I had to purge 10g in the morning before pulling my shot and 10g in the evening. For 60g og my espresso I pruge 29g. Plus: I do not have to worry about retention anymore.
> 
> If you are already single dosing, handgrinding does not add much time and effort. If you do nor want to weigh every dose, I would not consider hand grinding.


How much is a mahlgut now, they were seriously expensive last time I looked pre Brexit .


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## yoshi005 (Sep 2, 2015)

I have bought mine for 650 EUR in a sale (regular prize 750 EUR). They have stopped selling the grinder half a year ago and are working on a relaunch (http://mahlgut-manufaktur.de/en/handgrinder-mahlgut-1s/?noredirect=en_US). As they will issue a stainless steel version only, it would not expect it to enter the market for much less than 1.000 EUR (wich I personally would not pay for the grinder).

For 650 EUR it is a great tool, especially when you consider that kinu m68 and helor 102 haven't been in the market one year ago when I bought mine.


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