# Auber PID pre-infusion



## rws (May 7, 2014)

I'm considering ordering an Auber PID kit for my Classic - looks like the obvious thing to do so that I at least have some idea what temperature I'm working with at the start of the extraction.

There's a bells and whistles kit from Auber that offers pre-infusion, and I know the potential advantages of being able to pre-infuse the puck before hitting it with the full 9 bars. However, I'd like to canvas opinion on whether this feature of the Auber kit is actually worth the extra money. Anyone use one?

I can't seem to find any information to tell me whether the Auber kit regulates the voltage to the pump to pre-infuse with less pressure, or whether it simply pulses the pump at full pressure, pauses then extracts. Any clues?


----------



## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

It just pulses at full pressure as far as I know,for whatever time you set. It does make a difference to the speed of the pour so is yet another thing to play about with. I just tend to leave it at one setting though. The shot timer is useful but this may also come on the non pre-infusion model


----------



## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Yeah, it pulses the pump. I sometimes add pre infusion and it does alter the pour but sometimes triggers the solenoid and I wonder what effect that has on the puck. The timer is really handy and steam function is the big plus, really helps.


----------



## JakeBarnes (Nov 23, 2013)

I ordered the Auber PID with steam control AND pre-infusion.

In general, the kit has made a HUGE difference to the espresso I can produce. I have the controller programmed for 35 seconds so that one push of the controller starts the whole process (including pre-infusion) and I just hit the same button again any time before 35 seconds that I want to stop extraction based on how the shot flows.

I've just left pre-infusion on at the couple of seconds they have it programmed from the company, though it's possible to turn it off or extend the time.

It's only a small amount extra for pre-infusion so I thought, what the heck, worst case scenario don't use it, best case it's going to be more forgiving of my amateur tamps.

On a side note I also went for the blue light. Purely cosmetic, but I think the countdown looks less like a nuclear device about to explode.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I've not had any luck with the preinfusion (causes spritzing) though tbh I've not played around with it much.

I get great extractions just with setting the temp and pulling shots manually.


----------



## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm considering adding preinfusion using a dimmer switch. Is its purpose to emulate a lever machine? Some of the videos I've seen makes the espresso come out really nice similar to what I've seen in slayer videos.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I have a Classic with the Auber w/ pre-infusion attached

I'm still getting used to it, but what a difference between non-PID and w/ PID w/ pre-infusion


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

The machine Glenn refers to was mine a couple of weeks ago.

I didn't fit the PID, so can't really say how it might have been without, but I really felt it was a worthwhile mod. Glenn has used hundreds of Classics I'd guess, so if he says the Aubered up version is miles better, then that certainly lines up with my expectations.

The preinfusion has 2 parameters: pulse time and dwell time. So, while it doesn't give you the same true low pressure pre-wetting that an E61 or lever would, what it does do is allow you to set it up so the pump kicks in for, say, 1.5 seconds (i.e. just long enough to chuck a bit of water in without the pressure building up in the basket), and dwell time is how long it then pauses the pump to allow this small amount of water to sink in before it kicks in and forces the water in at full pressure (maybe 2.5 seconds?). Note the 1.5 PI and 2.5 dwell were what I found to work best. Too long on the PI and you'll end up with more pressure building up which then becomes less of a PI and more of a 'false start'! I reckoned 2.5 secs dwell was long enough to wet the puck.

I used my Classic with the all-singing all-dancing version of the Auber with the shot timer, PI and steam control and it really helped with temperature consistency, steam power (along with the Silvia wand obviously) and the convenience of a visible countdown to a pre-arranged shot time (which you can stop early if you want).


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

The auber kit has also transformed my classic. It has made me re-evaluate all the things I have read about temp surfing and to be honest most were inaccurate or plain simple guesses. With the pid kit the sour and sink shots are kept to the minimum.

Regarding pre-infusion, it is still an experiment for me but results so far show that it is a nice thing to have and can improve the shots. Since the kit with the pre-infusion is $15 more than the steam kit then I think it is worth going for that.


----------



## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

Sorry forgot to add video





[/QUOTE]

I think it's excellent that he described the profiling and differences it made to the cup for each of his shots.


----------



## colm1989 (Nov 17, 2014)

Has anyone had experience with both Auber and cheaper diy (Rex etc.) PID's?

I'm looking into adding a PID to my own classic in the new year, and keep going between Auber and diy...


----------



## roaringboy (Jun 14, 2014)

^^^ Is he using a pressurised basket in that video?


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

You can't really tell from the video because you never see the basket empty or out of the PF. I think what you're seeing is just the spouts in the PF. Given the lengths he's gone to with PIDs and pressure profiling etc, I'd be surprised if he's using the n00b basket but then again it can't be disproven either...


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I think the main difference between the Auber and DIY PIDs are that a lot of the programming and defaults has been done, after a certain amount of testing. Added to which the Auber ones come with most of the bits and bobs you need to get the job done. Of course you pay for that though. If you're confident, and don't count your time as a cost, you can probably achieve the same results for a bit less money. It probably comes down to how confident you are and how much you like 'trial and error'. Personally I was quite pleased that the previous owner had done it for me! If there's one thing I need more than more coffee it's more time and less hassle.


----------



## roaringboy (Jun 14, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> You can't really tell from the video because you never see the basket empty or out of the PF. I think what you're seeing is just the spouts in the PF. Given the lengths he's gone to with PIDs and pressure profiling etc, I'd be surprised if he's using the n00b basket but then again it can't be disproven either...


That's what I thought. Looks like the pf has the black plastic spouts which I thought was usually used in conjunction with the pressurised basket. The amount of work gone into that machine, I'd expect him to be using a naked filter.


----------



## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

Think I'll tackle this mod. Won't look as good the Auber kit but I'll try and make it less crude as possible. Do you have to still aim for 25-30 second extraction times though as the flow rate would have changed?


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

majnu said:


> Think I'll tackle this mod. Won't look as good the Auber kit but I'll try and make it less crude as possible. Do you have to still aim for 25-30 second extraction times though as the flow rate would have changed?


No, they can change quite a lot, follow the link in post #10 and you can see how much he has varied his show times.


----------



## majnu (Jan 31, 2014)

Dylan said:


> No, they can change quite a lot, follow the link in post #10 and you can see how much he has varied his show times.


I think pressure profiling is more about you and the coffee compared to you and the limitations of the machine so I understand now.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

majnu said:


> I think pressure profiling is more about you and the coffee compared to you and the limitations of the machine so I understand now.


If you read the Vesuvius thread you will see that pressure profiling is capable of producing some sublime coffee, but it introduces a whole hell of a lot more experimentation and the need for a lot more knowledge of what parts of the flavour come from where so you can adjust the pressure accordingly.

I think I would need to spend another 40 years on this planet and retire before I would have time for such things


----------



## michaelg (Jul 25, 2013)

hotmetal said:


> You can't really tell from the video because you never see the basket empty or out of the PF. I think what you're seeing is just the spouts in the PF. Given the lengths he's gone to with PIDs and pressure profiling etc, I'd be surprised if he's using the n00b basket but then again it can't be disproven either...


Could be that he changed the standard spouts for a set of these from Jens: http://cafekultur.theshoppad.com/#/product/spout-bb-spaziale-1


----------

