# Narrowing Down - Final Choice ???



## KirinChris (Mar 20, 2017)

I've been reading lots of reviews and comments which have been really helpful but I still need some help in making a final choice for my first 'real' espresso machine (currently using a little Gaggia). I'm going to LCF on the weekend hoping to get some more inspiration but would welcome some advice here please to confirm or correct my assumptions.

A little background context:


I'm the only coffee drinker in our house and I tend to have one mid-morning and another after lunch so I'm not pulling multiple shots in a row.

I work from home and it's not usually a problem to wait for things to heat up. Noise isn't an issue either.

I tend to go for flat white, occasionally espresso, and I want to improve my latte art skills so steaming is important for me.

Budget - if I can get away with machine and grinder for around £1500 I'll be happy. But if there's a compelling reason I could spend that on the machine and just not tell my wife about the grinder.


So, given my light usage am I right in thinking that maybe a dual boiler is nice but not essential? Is the main advantage in temperature stability for multiple shots?

Is there any difference in steaming, or is that pretty much the same across the board (other than issues like the steaming tip holes... and my technique of course !)

I noticed some machines are 1200w and some 1400w. Does that make any difference other than maybe waiting a bit longer to heat up?

So far my 'in-budget' options are:


Profitec 500 - if I had to buy right now this would be my choice. It seems to be good value and do everything I need.

ECM Barista - looks very similar and some deals at BB with grinders.

Rocket Appartamento - haven't seen so many details on this so I'm not sure if the price has been achieved by removing something I would wish I had.


Then there are the over-budget options.


Rocket Giotto - has PID control and rotary pump, and I like the slightly diifferent look.

ECM Mechanika IV - no PID but frankly I have great faith in things built by Germans.

Rocket R58 or Profitec 700 - this is way over budget, but if a dual boiler is going to be absolutely superior then maybe...


Let's leave grinders for another time...

From the above what would you go for... or is there something else I should be considering?

I fear I will come back from LCF even more confused


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Go and see the Bella Barista stand at LCF. I believe the have Rocket, Profitec or ECM and a couple of others on their stand


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi, welcome to the forum. It looks like you've done your homework and narrowed down your choices. All the machines above are really good.

- PID on an HX machine will not give you any advantage to control temperature due to the design. The PID controls the water temp. inside the service boiler, usually set to around 123C-126C, which equates to 1.1bar and 1.3bar.

- I would encourage to you to understand well the HX (Heat Exchange) vs DB (Dual Boiler) architecture, and for that there are plenty of resources in this forum.

In my opinion, I'd go for a DB machine. However, if you don't mind the nuances and routines of an HX machine and it's more simple design, that may be the type of machine for you. There is a big difference between them. My prosumer journey, I've started with a HX and shortly after upgraded to a DB machine. 

Also, don't overlook the grinder. It's more important than the machine IMO.

When you finally make your shortlist shorter, a trip to Bella Barista is well worth spent time.

Good luck!


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

BB sell one of the best HX machines going, the Orchestrale Nota......although an HX by design, it also has a thermos-hon which acts as a continual loop cycling the water to and from the boiler via the group, which eliminates the need for a cooling flush. Plus it is rotary pump, very stylish and I have had one and would go bak to one without a thought if I ever changed from a lever again.......on the negative side, it is slightly out of your budget!


----------



## KirinChris (Mar 20, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Also, don't overlook the grinder. It's more important than the machine IMO.


Yes absolutely, that's part of my budget thinking - I want to leave some room to have a choice of grinders, not just go for the cheapest option.

Although from what I've read the Eureka Mignon is perfectly OK at the lower end of the range.


----------



## KirinChris (Mar 20, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> BB sell one of the best HX machines going, the Orchestrale Nota......although an HX by design, it also has a thermos-hon which acts as a continual loop cycling the water to and from the boiler via the group, which eliminates the need for a cooling flush. Plus it is rotary pump, very stylish and I have had one and would go bak to one without a thought if I ever changed from a lever again.......on the negative side, it is slightly out of your budget!


Thanks, I certainly plan to see BB at the LCF.

I've seen the levers but not really thought of that as an option. The Londiniums certainly look beautiful (and above my price range :-() but it also seemed like something I should graduate to rather than start with.

What's the benefit of a lever machine?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

the nota is a pump machine. a lever extracts the coffee via the pressure applied by the spring, so it is far more gently, whereas as a pump machine extracts via a pump at a continuous pressure which ir normally higher. The original machines were lever machines and funnily enough, if you have a profiling machine whereby you can dictate how long and at what pressure it extracts, you often findd the preferred profile mimics a lever!


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I was in a very similar situation and budget to you Chris.

30 mins after arriving at BB I knew it had to be the mechanika. The ecm seemed a different quality class in the flesh to other machines.

I've been really happy with it - great coffee and something to be proud of as it's such a lovely piece of engineering.

A bit more money than your current budget when paired with a mignon as I did though worth it imo.

Natural upgrade is to move on from the mignon at some point - or add a second with bigger burrs


----------



## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Good advice ?


----------

