# Portafilters and heat stability - naked vs regular?



## sjm85 (Sep 9, 2016)

Hi,

I can't seem to find whether this topic has been covered before, so I'll get asking...

Given that heat stability is so important, do naked portafilters trade off heat stability for their usefulness for monitoring extraction?

I've been using naked for a long time and am happy my technique is pretty reliable these days to avoid the usual pitfalls of channelling, uneven extraction etc.

Would/Could I gain anything with going back to a spouted portafilter? Would it help with reliability/reproducibility of my shots?

Thank you.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I'd probably say there's not a fat lot I it. What machine do you have?


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## sjm85 (Sep 9, 2016)

Thanks, I guess that's kind of what I was thinking, but thought I would check.

Using a vesuvius so I hope the inherent temp stability from the machine should be fine.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@sjm85 - https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/do-naked-portafilters-need-to-be-hot-t1931.html

With regards to temperature stability: I remember reading some stuff a few years back that, because the mass of the bottomless is smaller then it doesn't affect heating stability as much. The mass of the basket being negligible and the fact the coffee liquid doesn't hit any of the portafilter itself (i.e.: the bottom of the portafilter and the spouts) implied that it didn't really need to be hot.

I can't be bothered to read the above again. 🙂 I've been using a naked/bottomless PF for years now, and always kept it as hot as the group.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @sjm85 - https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/do-naked-portafilters-need-to-be-hot-t1931.html
> 
> With regards to temperature stability: I remember reading some stuff a few years back that, because the mass of the bottomless is smaller then it doesn't affect heating stability as much. The mass of the basket being negligible and the fact the coffee liquid doesn't hit any of the portafilter itself (i.e.: the bottom of the portafilter and the spouts) implied that it didn't really need to be hot.
> 
> I can't be bothered to read the above again. 🙂 I've been using a naked/bottomless PF for years now, and always kept it as hot as the group.


 Yeah I'm sure I remember seeing a video by Decent where they were talking about whether or not to keep your portafilter locked in to heat up.

I believe he said you're only really heating up the basket, which has a small mass and heats up quickly. So doesn't make that much difference.

I'd probably say if you're already keeping the portafilter attached through warm up then bottomless vs spouted makes very little difference.

If anything I guess it might affect the output temperature a bit because of what the espresso is in contact with after brewing. But I can't imagine it'll make any difference to the brew temp.

Just my speculations - I'm sure someone nerdier than me will correct me 😉


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

If you think about it logically, where does the basket derive any heat from ?? =. contact with the P/F rim and spring some from the group seal.

If you use a cold P/F with a cold basket this will instantly lower the temperature of the coffee as it passes through the basket.

I disagree with the P/F being 'locked in' but certainly loosely fitted.


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## rogher (Nov 22, 2020)

By the time the coffee has reached the spout the only thing that can happen to it is to cool it down a bit. The die has been cast, so to speak.

- What's the theory behind keeping the portafilter hot (why is it recommended)?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

rogher said:


> By the time the coffee has reached the spout the only thing that can happen to it is to cool it down a bit. The die has been cast, so to speak.
> 
> - What's the theory behind keeping the portafilter hot (why is it recommended)?


 A bit? If the coffee coming out of the coffee basket is, say, 90C and the spouted portafilter with a considerable mass of brass is at room temperature, left overnight, say, 18C, then your coffee will be cold in the cup. Same principle as not warming the cup where you coffee ends up in. 🙂


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

El carajillo said:


> If you think about it logically, where does the basket derive any heat from ?? =. contact with the P/F rim and spring some from the group seal.
> 
> If you use a cold P/F with a cold basket this will instantly lower the temperature of the coffee as it passes through the basket.
> 
> I disagree with the P/F being 'locked in' but certainly loosely fitted.


 Yeah absolutely. I keep the PF fitted while the machine is warming up because I think this does make enough of a difference to the brew temp. Whether I could tell a difference in a blind taste test I have no idea, but in my head it makes a tangible difference.

I personally think that the spouted vs bottomless wouldn't make enough of a difference. Especially if the PF is pre-heated.


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## sjm85 (Sep 9, 2016)

It's always interesting to see which changes you can make and what effect it has.

Today's current learning is using the "tea towel wrapped around the E61 group" to help heat it up.

If I'm totally honest, on a basis of n=1, I think it is making a noticeable difference today. Although maybe that is also compounded by the cold weather we are having at the moment. 🤔


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