# Lets have a grinder discussion



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

OK, the purpose of this thread, is to discuss the ins and outs of grinders. A myth was demolished for me yesterday, surrounding the K10 and Mythos. Just how applicable are they in a home environment? By that I mean how can I get the most out of the machines without for example, sticking a kilo of beans into the hopper to add weight which is needed to push the beans through, otherwise great inconsistencies occur in the grind weight. therefore, is it actually worth having one of these big boys in that form. How much of the available 100% am I getting? Would I be better off with a lesser grinder and being able to use it to more of its 100% ability?I suppose a Mythos or K10 fresh in full flow in a commercial environment will be a sight to behold, but in a home environment, can we do them justice.

So, lets hear from you lot. Why do you think your grinder is the best (and let us ignore the economic argument here). I am never going to stick a kilo of beans into the hopper so should I start to consider a doser model of something. I have never had a doser before but they are beginning to appeal in some way. Anyone can join in. Any mods done to lesser thought of grinders is equally as welcome as expensive ones.

To be blunt, I had thought that having a Mythos and a K10 fresh gave me two grinders which must be near the top of anyones tree, but, in a home environment, now I am not so sure.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Very good and I guess very good point will monitor this thread with interest as already wondering what I would upgrade to from my MSJ and always thought a mythos.

I think you probably are right that you may not be getting the best out of your grinders because of the way you use them however probably still better than 99% of other options I would guess wheres CC


----------



## Sam__G (Sep 4, 2011)

deadly serious, Vario: Small, attractive, versatile, quiet, quick, easy, clean, sufficient. I would probably swap it for a Versalab, but have never used or seen one so couldn't tell you for sure.


----------



## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

OK - I've said it before & I now say it again.

The Versalab is the all but perfect home grinder.

Zero retention - what you weigh in you get out.

Slow running therefore cool beans

Light fluffy delivery straight into the PF. Delivers like a volcano.

Never clumps

Instant easy changes for grind size & different coffees

Easy to clean

Replaceable burrs easy to source.

Cool running heavy duty motor.

Even with the hoppers in no way do I consider it suitable as a commercial grinder for so many reasons.

You need to ignore the 'faff' that has appeared on the American Forums from time to time. Most of it is personal & stems from an incident some 5 years or so ago.

If as is sometimes said the spindle does run out of true by ???mms its never effected my results & most of the folk that I know have one remain delighted with the grinder output.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Get rid of the K10 and Mythos. get an EK43 and single dose. The grind quality will wipe the floor with both of them. You'll waste very few beans. You'll be able to extract espresso at a much higher % and start to enjoy lighter roasts : )


----------



## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I enjoy light roasts already. I am not allowed an ek (wifes orders)

As for the mythos three timers which I've set currently at 3.5 3.75 and 0.25 seconds I weigh out each time and add the 0.25 if required. I'm content and keeping mine. The reason being simply I'm not allowed the ek.


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Think you've named the elephant in the corner, David in respect of using what are commercial grinders in the domestic setting. Single dosing in a grinder that's not designed for that purpose is always going to be a challenge and create the issues as per the K10 with grind retention. The EK43 is an interesting proposition and less susceptible to grind retention given it's design. It would be great if the major grind manufacturers addressed these issues from the point of the domestic user, ie, brought out a machine that is designed for and works well in the domestic setting. The guys behind the HG One have addressed this - zero retention - ability to switch beans effortlessly and, once you're familiar with the beast, a doddle to dial in. Has a small footprint and is light and portable. Only downside - it's manual and obviously can't compete with motorised grinders for throughput but how often is that a serious drawback for most of us?


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

No doubt there is an EK on the horizon which is no taller than a Super Jolly, has zero static and a wider granulated grind-adjustment ring suited to espresso.

Patience patience.......


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Oh come on guy's ! This thread has already got me thinking of upgrading my MSJ ? I've only had a few weeks. Would it be such a huge step up in taste ? I understand the grind retention will be an issue on the K10 but I want to know if the taste in the cup would blow my socks off


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

CoffeeJohnny said:


> I enjoy light roasts already. I am not allowed an ek (wifes orders)
> 
> As for the mythos three timers which I've set currently at 3.5 3.75 and 0.25 seconds I weigh out each time and add the 0.25 if required. I'm content and keeping mine. The reason being simply I'm not allowed the ek.


Coffee Omega have it in white tho! She'd love it.

Doubles up as a flour-maker?!


----------



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

The HG One is a faff when making multiple drinks, if cost isn't an issue then the Versalab is probably above it (haven't tried one so can't make a direct comparison on output). HG One does also still have minor static issues even with the sweeper mod


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Without checking what is the price of the Versalab


----------



## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Haha I could try. After thinking about my timings I'm going to re adjust to 0.15 and 0.25 increments.

regarding dosers the caimano had the best doser I've ever used but with upwards of 18g retention the grind chamber certainly need to be in a high volume setting


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

If the k10 had the retention of the mythos would this be the ideal grinder ? If the k10 was laid on its side at 45 degrees would this then become a kythos and not have the retention issues ?

And have you tasted the variance in output in the cup ?

I'll be sticking with my mythos unless I have either a big lottery win or a huge tax refund, neither of which I am expecting


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> OK, the purpose of this thread, is to discuss the ins and outs of grinders. A myth was demolished for me yesterday, surrounding the K10 and Mythos. Just how applicable are they in a home environment? By that I mean how can I get the most out of the machines without for example, sticking a kilo of beans into the hopper to add weight which is needed to push the beans through, otherwise great inconsistencies occur in the grind weight. therefore, is it actually worth having one of these big boys in that form. How much of the available 100% am I getting? Would I be better off with a lesser grinder and being able to use it to more of its 100% ability?I suppose a Mythos or K10 fresh in full flow in a commercial environment will be a sight to behold, but in a home environment, can we do them justice.
> 
> So, lets hear from you lot. Why do you think your grinder is the best (and let us ignore the economic argument here). I am never going to stick a kilo of beans into the hopper so should I start to consider a doser model of something. I have never had a doser before but they are beginning to appeal in some way. Anyone can join in. Any mods done to lesser thought of grinders is equally as welcome as expensive ones.
> 
> To be blunt, I had thought that having a Mythos and a K10 fresh gave me two grinders which must be near the top of anyones tree, but, in a home environment, now I am not so sure.


Was that demolished myth pertaining to the grind quality, or the variation in timed dosing? Not saying that a full hopper doesn't affect the former, but if you have scales to establish whether or not timed doses are consistent, why not cut out the middle man & grind by weight? Apologies, if I'm off base here.


----------



## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I've been thinking with regards to differing times/weight on these grinders.

The only way around the differing weights would be a built in portafilter scale/holder which took the weight of the complete portafilter. Other than that it's the EK or just weigh the grind and top up as necessary. Basically dose at the lowest realistic setting and add rather than having to scrape grounds off the top.

As beans are an Organic substance and the fracture mechanics between two beans from the same cherry is different let alone two beans most likely from a different tree. We can do all we can to ensure the standard of the bean from tree to cup but there will always be variables. The fact that we all care enough to invest the most we can into our equipment shows we each have some understanding of this point.

As Gary mentioned with the EK you can get consistency as you put in what you get out. With mine I adjust the timer in order to work around the differences these wonderful beans produce.

I love coffee, I love that every coffee is different, I love the challenges each coffee presents in order to get the best out of it. I am not to sure that we can ever expect (without a redesign) a grinder thats going to drop 17.5g into the filter every single time and I genuinely love the challenge, if I were in a work environment then it's a little different but I am not at the moment.

I think everyone here has a grinder that is brilliant and as such they get to know it and get the best out of it.


----------



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Soll said:


> Without checking what is the price of the Versalab


$2k just for the bare minimum plus taxes and custom charges etc


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Soll said:


> Without checking what is the price of the Versalab


A fortune , as most people get it modded by terrannova due to wobble and burr alignment. Think they are $2000 hoppers $375 each. Plus taxes .....

Modding as much as you wanna spend .

Slow for commercial environment too.

I'd love one though ( one of the carbon like diamond coated ones ) .


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

It would be better if the scales were integrated into the hopper.

e.g for 18g, with a tared weight of 1000g in hopper and stop grinding when 982 (factoring in latency etc)

Kind of like the Azkoyen Cappricco which was actually darn good when I had a brief fling with one. Still a huge faff to dial-in initially.


----------



## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Yes that would be good. I wasn't aware it existed but I was just thinking how I would do it that way is far better.



garydyke1 said:


> It would be better if the scales were integrated into the hopper.
> 
> e.g for 18g, with a tared weight of 1000g in hopper and stop grinding when 982 (factoring in latency etc)
> 
> Kind of like the Azkoyen Cappricco which was actually darn good when I had a brief fling with one. Still a huge faff to dial-in initially.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Get rid of the K10 and Mythos. get an EK43 and single dose. The grind quality will wipe the floor with both of them. You'll waste very few beans. You'll be able to extract espresso at a much higher % and start to enjoy lighter roasts : )


And you can get one in white now.....


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

In terms of delivery , the way the k30 puts the grind into the portafiler is the best I've used, don't spill or fly anywhere, I found you needed 200 g to make it consistent though . although I love the way the robur e doses also .


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The EK43 is probably the same price as a Versalab. Is it better?

The myth that was broken was that if you try and make a commercial behave in a domestic environment, then you are going to have issues. Is a K 10 running at 70% of its capability better than something else running at a higher %


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Are there any grinders designed specifically with single-dosing in mind?

If so, how do they differ from their commercial brothers?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

And so the debate continues, one of these days I will pull my finger out of my backside and develop the weight that solves the issues. The big commercial grinders all work better with weight of bean over the burrs, so thus if a hopper is designed to encompass a sufficient weight ( at least 500 g) over the beans then almost all of the inconsistencies of both dose weight and grind consistency of the top end on demand grinders will disappear.

The single biggest issue is how the burrs are interacting with the beans and that if a burr set is designed to have beans pushed through them so that they grind evenly and consistently then some kind of weight is required as most are gravity fed.

Are big burr grinders suitable for the home, of course they are, but perhaps another question to ask and address is, are we changing equipment because our technique is not up to scratch?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The EK43 is probably the same price as a Versalab. Is it better?
> 
> The myth that was broken was that if you try and make a commercial behave in a domestic environment, then you are going to have issues. Is a K 10 running at 70% of its capability better than something else running at a higher %


% of what though? Weight of coffee ground, number of shots, grind consistency, or weight of beans in the hopper?


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Are big burr grinders suitable for the home, of course they are, but perhaps another question to ask and address is, are we changing equipment because our technique is not up to scratch?


No, it's cos we're changing the way we use them in a way for which they were not designed.

...s'okay though cos Sage will be monitoring this thread and come out with a solution to the problem!


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> The EK43 is probably the same price as a Versalab. Is it better?
> 
> The myth that was broken was that if you try and make a commercial behave in a domestic environment, then you are going to have issues. Is a K 10 running at 70% of its capability better than something else running at a higher %


Well having an EK43 means you have a grinder capable of espresso (so they say) , Exceptional Brewed, rapid batch/retail & probably reducing diamonds into flour (lol)


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Milanski said:


> No, it's cos we're changing the way we use them in a way for which they were not designed.
> 
> ...s'okay though cos Sage will be monitoring this thread and come out with a solution to the problem!


Shimming something ain't gonna help with this though


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Well having an EK43 means you have a grinder capable of espresso (so they say) , Exceptional Brewed, rapid batch/retail & probably reducing diamonds into flour (lol)


Doesn't it lack from a usable or markable adjustment collar though . Or have I dreamed this up ?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> And so the debate continues, one of these days I will pull my finger out of my backside and develop the weight that solves the issues. The big commercial grinders all work better with weight of bean over the burrs, so thus if a hopper is designed to encompass a sufficient weight ( at least 500 g) over the beans then almost all of the inconsistencies of both dose weight and grind consistency of the top end on demand grinders will disappear.
> 
> The single biggest issue is how the burrs are interacting with the beans and that if a burr set is designed to have beans pushed through them so that they grind evenly and consistently then some kind of weight is required as most are gravity fed.
> 
> Are big burr grinders suitable for the home, of course they are, but perhaps another question to ask and address is, are we changing equipment because our technique is not up to scratch?


I'd be happy if someone just came up with a smaller hopper for my grinder.....


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I thought about making a little muslin sack full of sand to weigh down on a single dose of beans. Maybe need a aeropress style hopper to keep it upright.

Whatdoyareckon??


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Doesn't it lack from a usable or markable adjustment collar though . Or have I dreamed this up ?


You mean these?

http://www.3fe.com/shop/merchandise/ek-43-dial/


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Milanski said:


> I thought about making a little muslin sack full of sand to weigh down on a single dose of beans. Maybe need a aeropress style hopper to keep it upright.
> 
> Whatdoyareckon??


Been there , done that (with my mini-e). I think the sheer power and speed of the EK means popcorning isnt really an issue


----------



## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

I've read through this thread to date with great interest. I was happy enough with my Mazzer Mini Electronic at one time but following my regular clean-out it has developed a bad case of static so I am considering moving it on.

Until now I was thinking about a brand new and boxed K30 for £950 but having read this thread I am now undecided!

I have to say that my new Rosco hand grinder (38mm metal conical burrs) gives me really nice, fluffy and consistent grinds.

David


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

If only someone of this parish was currently developing a grinder suitable for both single dosing and a full hopper......hmmmmmm


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Been there , done that (with my mini-e). I think the sheer power and speed of the EK means popcorning isnt really an issue


Did it work? (would it work with my SJ?)


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> % of what though? Weight of coffee ground, number of shots, grind consistency, or weight of beans in the hopper?


% of the machines own ability, ie firing on all cylinders


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I do not think single dosing is the issue. Do we really mean weighing in an amount of beans, then grinding and expecting the same amount out. Or, having a grinder with a split second timer and knowing, that when you set it up, 3.02 seconds on that particular grind setting gave you 16.25 gms of coffee. So you go away happy, then come back an hour later, the central heating has been on and you weigh out your does and see it has dropped to 15.3 gms.

The only effective way I can see of single dosing, both accurately and repeatedly (unless you are using a commercial in a busy environment where you can have a constant weight of beans in the hopper, and more importantly, each shot you sell could be to a secret wbc shopper or the likes who will evaluate it beyond a cursory I do or do not like it) is by having an HG One or Versalab (i am ignoring the other hand grinders)


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I think there's two discussions going on here. I don't have an on-demand grinder so wasn't aware that the output weight changes over time. I was particularly referring to the inconsistent grind you're supposed to get when there's not enough weight on the beans being ground but looks like there are multiple issues that need solving for the domestic market.


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> then come back an hour later, the central heating has been on and you weigh out your does and see it has dropped to 15.3 gms.


Wouldn't this be the same challenge to some extent in a commercial environment with the humidity of the beans / heat in the shop ? And in a commercial environment the grind would be adjusted throughout the shift (chains excepted)

I'm trying to get to grips with the issue and the answer to this thread, unless the answer is ek43


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Does anyone actually have an EK43??


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

not yet but working on it.......


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I do not think single dosing is the issue. Do we really mean weighing in an amount of beans, then grinding and expecting the same amount out. Or, having a grinder with a split second timer and knowing, that when you set it up, 3.02 seconds on that particular grind setting gave you 16.25 gms of coffee. So you go away happy, then come back an hour later, the central heating has been on and you weigh out your does and see it has dropped to 15.3 gms.
> 
> The only effective way I can see of single dosing, both accurately and repeatedly (unless you are using a commercial in a busy environment where you can have a constant weight of beans in the hopper, and more importantly, each shot you sell could be to a secret wbc shopper or the likes who will evaluate it beyond a cursory I do or do not like it) is by having an HG One or Versalab (i am ignoring the other hand grinders)


Getting the same weight of grinds out, as the dose in the grinder is probably unrealistic for any electric espresso grinder...and most brewed grinders. More feasible with hand grinders and the EK43 (but bear in mind folks aren't typically using EK43s for 65% espressos, they're making drinks a little longer).

But there are 2 issues: Timed doses & grind quality. If you know the timer varies with hopper weight, ignore the timer and use scales to dose the PF. Just because an HG1 or Versalab (Rosco, Lido, Pharos, whatever) has little to no retention, can we be certain that the burrs are working any differently (regarding grind quality) in those grinders compared to how they would work in a commercial grinder with a light hopper load (not a criticism or attack on those products, but the weight of the beans in the hopper normally affects grind quality too)? I'd just be concerned that if you kicked out the K10 you may well be throwing out the baby with the bath water - you would still need to weigh doses, not use a timer with a HG1, Rosco etc., even an EK43...and this appears to be the basis of your queries...dosing. If the coffee is otherwise tasting good, it seems a trivial reason to give it the elbow - not that I am beyond "trivial reasoning", how you feel when you look at a thing of beauty is real factor too. ;-) If something else will make you happy, go for it.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> not yet but working on it.......


You're my hero.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

MWJB said:


> If the coffee is otherwise tasting good, it seems a trivial reason to give it the elbow


Rightly so, it's what's in the cup that counts, but we by nature are always striving for perfection.

Either we see our anality as a good thing - pushing technology and innovation forwards or else we have to accept that we are damned for it.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Rightly so, it's what's in the cup that counts, but we by nature are always striving for perfection.
> 
> Either we see our anality as a good thing - pushing technology and innovation forwards or else we have to accept that we are damned for it.


Indeed, but that perfection (or as close as you might reasonably expect to get to it) happens between the PF & the cup. Unless you can use your anality to prove a tangible improvement in grind & cup quality (between grinders with an equally excellent reputation for grind quality), are you striving for perfection, or an illusion of perfection & just beating yourself up? Are you solving the problem, or taking the same problem to another's door?


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Nirvana may be a dream! I am quite happy with my L1, and cannot see it being changed. My grinder journey is different though. I am lucky that my wife just lets me get on with it. It is also nice to try high end kit. But my original question was asking if it made sense to use a commercial grinder to anything other than 100% of its real capability by domesticating it. I am not really bothered about the retention issue, but it does detract from the coffee making routine a little.

I did enjoy the weighing routine of the HG One and knowing that it ground most of what you put into it, but is that the be all and end all? I am still chucking the arguments around in my head at the moment!


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

I can sell you a quamar David ;o) - that will remove the commercial bit


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

What a kind offer Andrew.......let me mull it over:good:


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i think it must be about time you bought another mignon dave


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Milanski said:


> You're my hero.


Id have one by now if it weren't for some unfortunately legal events occurring in the family : (


----------



## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Get rid of the K10 and Mythos. get an EK43 and single dose. The grind quality will wipe the floor with both of them. You'll waste very few beans. You'll be able to extract espresso at a much higher % and start to enjoy lighter roasts : )


you guys kill me: £1000-£2000 for a coffee grinder? You are all having a laugh, I take it?


----------



## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Does anyone use the Mythos for single dosing? It works? Does it need to adjust the setting finer than when it's used with a full hopper?


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

CFo said:


> you guys kill me: £1000-£2000 for a coffee grinder? You are all having a laugh, I take it?


Nope everyone is deadly serious DFK does indeed own a Mythos and a K10 Fresh ~£4k in total at new prices. Coffeechap has a Mazzer Robur and a Mazzer Royal, W0rkingdog has a Mythos as does CoffeeJohnny, Ronsil has a Versalab, and both The Systemis Kid and Geordie Boy have an HG one, leaving Gary and myself as the poor relations with a mazzer Royal and a Brasilia RR55-OD respectively.


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

leaving Gary and myself as the poor relations with a mazzer Royal and a Brasilia RR55-OD respectively.

I feel rather like the black sheep then with Mrshades MSJ. Not complaining mind you, it's all part of the learning process


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Viernes said:


> Does anyone use the Mythos for single dosing? It works? Does it need to adjust the setting finer than when it's used with a full hopper?


Nope run it with 150-250g in most of the time .


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

CFo said:


> you guys kill me: £1000-£2000 for a coffee grinder? You are all having a laugh, I take it?


You do realise we are all mental in a nice way but coffee mental. Plus I didn't pay £1000 for mine


----------



## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Nope run it with 150-250g in most of the time .


Pity... Could you run it with only a single dose when you have a little time, please? I've heard contradictory opinions about the single dosing capability...


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Viernes said:


> Pity... Could you run it with only a single dose when you have a little time, please? I've heard contradictory opinions about the single dosing capability...


I didn't say you couldn't run it single dose . I think it performs more consistently as beans in it . It's a massive commercial grinder , they didn't design it to run at optimum with just 18g in......


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

it will single dose with a weight over the top of the beans, so with the mythos this means making a straight chute to the burrs and fashioning a weight that presses down on the beans in the chute, however it does single dose even without a weight as the worm mechanism in the burr assembly pulls beans down onto the burrs it is just more effective with weight. None of the big commercial grinders are deigned to be used in a single dose mode, the versalab can do it as can the ek43


----------



## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

Oh, I understand. Thanks. Then it have the same "problem" as most of others grinders... for example the K10f


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

the issue comes with the last of the beans that nead to be ground, as without more beans on top the burrs grab at the beans and popcorning occurs, it is a lot less on the mythos due to the angle of the motor and burrs and the wormscrew.


----------



## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Nope everyone is deadly serious DFK does indeed own a Mythos and a K10 Fresh ~£4k in total at new prices. Coffeechap has a Mazzer Robur and a Mazzer Royal, W0rkingdog has a Mythos as does CoffeeJohnny, Ronsil has a Versalab, and both The Systemis Kid and Geordie Boy have an HG one, leaving Gary and myself as the poor relations with a mazzer Royal and a Brasilia RR55-OD respectively.


madder than a box of frogs!


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

CFo said:


> madder than a box of frogs!


Just give it six months


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yeah my poor 83mm titanium burrs . Boo hoo


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

and mine gary, i feel so inadequate !!!!!


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

CFo said:


> madder than a box of frogs!


Let me go on the record as being a happy Mythos owner, as most will be.

I'll be buying my first supercar before I upgrade my grinder - and neither will be happening anytime soon


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

realy glad you are loving that grinder dude....


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> and mine gary, i feel so inadequate !!!!!


Hey we're all in this together!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

we should set up the big bad boy mazzer club


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

What would be deemed as Big Bad Mazzer ? Would the SJ qualify


----------



## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Mazzer club - where do I sign up?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

83mm and above, we could adopt you


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

So what would the benefits be ? Mazzer weekly tips ? Or perhaps a weekend Mazzer Jolly up


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

would have to be a royal affair!!


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> realy glad you are loving that grinder dude....


whats not to like ? cracking bit of kit.

I take on board the dose variance with all of the OD grinders but have to say that I dont have to adjust the grind from that start to the end of most bags of beans

oh, and the coffee it delivers isnt too bad either


----------



## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I want a Kony! I've never even seen one let alone tried but I just want one!


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

I know a little bird who picked one up on the cheap.... He's sometimes seen around these parts....


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> would have to be a royal affair!!


Can I join in?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

xiuxiuejar said:


> I want a Kony! I've never even seen one let alone tried but I just want one!


Ditto

........


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Can I join in?


I think you meet the minimum dimensions...


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

konies are the nuts, would have kept mine if i didnt get the k10f opportunity, but loving the robur....


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

xpenno said:


> i think you meet the minimum dimensions...


83mm club....


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

So let's fast forward in time, I don't know say 6months ! I'm ready to upgrade the MSJ what would be the next jump up in class, coffee taste and kitchen work top appeal


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Glad to see a thread sticking to its roots.....LOL


----------



## t-c (Feb 23, 2013)

I'm happy with my K8 fresh. I use the tamper on top of the beans as added weight when grinding.


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

I know I always do that, sorry for side tracking lol!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

not side tracking at all, this is about grinders, if you love the mazzer then it is a major or royal as the next logical progression


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am going to try keeping a constant 500 gms of beans in the hopper. That is roughly 2 1/2 days worth of beans so nothing is hurting by doing that. Of course, all this is totally unnecessary if you are happy with the drink you produce anyway!


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I suddenly feel inadequate with my undersized SJ :'(

However, it's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it and my girl ain't complaining!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dont be dude, remiss of me to be too exclusive perhaps we have a mazzer owner subforum instead


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Yay! I'm back in the gang!

Thanks dude


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

...though you have got me thinking that m-a-y-b-e I should get something bigger!


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

It's so difficult to stay happy with what you got, I'm finding fault with the Super Jolly already and it's only been a few weeks


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What's up with the SJ?


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> What's up with the SJ?


Nothing serious, only the doser V's doserless conundrum and I don't know how long I'll put up with that noise of the paddle movement, especially first thing in the morning


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Doser might not be for you. I've only had one for a week and enjoying the clump free life so far. Doserless can be clumpy so instead of the paddle you'll have a bit of a faff stirring unless you get a badboy grinder.


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Now when you go and mention "Badboy Grinder" I go all warm and tingly inside. So it seems the ultimate grinder would be to grind clump free, at speed and to produce an exquisite coffee to die for...







I must get the best out of my SJ first before thinking about any upgradeitus. Do you have your eye on anything to to upgrade to Jeebsy ?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Soll said:


> Now when you go and mention "Badboy Grinder" I go all warm and tingly inside. So it seems the ultimate grinder would be to grind clump free, at speed and to produce an exquisite coffee to die for...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Add low retention and on demand and where are back where we started with the original question ...


----------



## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Had my SJ 4 months, really enjoying with no plans to upgrade. 0 retention and producing excellent grind quality/ consistency.



coffeechap said:


> dont be dude, remiss of me to be too exclusive perhaps we have a mazzer owner subforum instead


We could start with a Mazzer count...must be quite a few on here now.



Soll said:


> Nothing serious, only the doser V's doserless conundrum and I don't know how long I'll put up with that noise of the paddle movement, especially first thing in the morning


The doser does take a little getting used to, but all adds to the quirkiness of having an industrial machine in the kitchen


----------



## t4tom (Jan 5, 2014)

As this is a grinder thread, please help me out.

I will shortly receive a gaggia classic and I am going to need a grinder too.

I have an old Ascaso Dream and Dualit Espressivo to sell, so will use the proceeds from this + more if required to buy a nice grinder. The MC2 is the obvious entry-level choice, but would anyone care to recommend the next step on the grinder journey e.g. what does £200, £300, £400 etc. get me in the second hand market? If can't see myself parting with more than £400 at this stage, but love buying second hand stuff.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Soll said:


> Now when you go and mention "Badboy Grinder" I go all warm and tingly inside. So it seems the ultimate grinder would be to grind clump free, at speed and to produce an exquisite coffee to die for...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not really, only had my Royal running for five days! Love the grinds out the Mythos but I single dose so maybe something like a K10 fresh, or if money was no object an EK43.


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

t4tom said:


> As this is a grinder thread, please help me out.
> 
> I will shortly receive a gaggia classic and I am going to need a grinder too.
> 
> I have an old Ascaso Dream and Dualit Espressivo to sell, so will use the proceeds from this + more if required to buy a nice grinder. The MC2 is the obvious entry-level choice, but would anyone care to recommend the next step on the grinder journey e.g. what does £200, £300, £400 etc. get me in the second hand market? If can't see myself parting with more than £400 at this stage, but love buying second hand stuff.


No contest t4tom ! It has to be a Mazzer Super Jolly


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

t4tom said:


> As this is a grinder thread, please help me out.
> 
> I will shortly receive a gaggia classic and I am going to need a grinder too.
> 
> I have an old Ascaso Dream and Dualit Espressivo to sell, so will use the proceeds from this + more if required to buy a nice grinder. The MC2 is the obvious entry-level choice, but would anyone care to recommend the next step on the grinder journey e.g. what does £200, £300, £400 etc. get me in the second hand market? If can't see myself parting with more than £400 at this stage, but love buying second hand stuff.


£200 will get you a second hand Eureka Mignon - best 'wee' grinder - or a Mazzer Mini. £200-250 a Mazzer Super Jolly. Go over £300-350 second hand and you're in to pretty serious commercial grinders like the Royal.


----------



## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

t4tom said:


> As this is a grinder thread, please help me out.
> 
> I will shortly receive a gaggia classic and I am going to need a grinder too.
> 
> I have an old Ascaso Dream and Dualit Espressivo to sell, so will use the proceeds from this + more if required to buy a nice grinder. The MC2 is the obvious entry-level choice, but would anyone care to recommend the next step on the grinder journey e.g. what does £200, £300, £400 etc. get me in the second hand market? If can't see myself parting with more than £400 at this stage, but love buying second hand stuff.


Some popular examples and approx secind hand prices;

MC2 £80-100

Migon £200-220

Mazzer Super Jolly £280


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

K30 looks nice actually


----------



## t4tom (Jan 5, 2014)

Guys, thanks for the shopping list; I am off to do some reading!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> K30 looks nice actually


K30 Delivers really well. Great mech in it . Won't have the taste profile of your current monster though.

You wouldn't want to be single dosing with a k10 it's need the weight in it .....


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

t4tom said:


> Guys, thanks for the shopping list; I am off to do some reading!


Drop coffeechap a pm , he reconditions mazzers , safe reliable gear, he is the forum enabler....

Can do bespoke pain jobs , and might have SJ or something in the range your after .


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you only drink one cup a dAy, then single dosing makes sense. If

You drink more than one, it does not!


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Nov 29, 2012)

Still loving my La Cimbali you so kindly sold me boots!









As I also like to single dose, not sure what my next grinder would be.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> K30 Delivers really well. Great mech in it . Won't have the taste profile of your current monster though.
> 
> You wouldn't want to be single dosing with a k10 it's need the weight in it .....


Yeah 63mm burrs, can't be messing with that....looks like it dumps a nice pile in the portafilter though which is holy grail for me.



dfk41 said:


> If you only drink one cup a dAy, then single dosing makes sense. If
> 
> You drink more than one, it does not!


Two shots before work for me, then maybe a decaf or two at night. More at weekends. Chop and change beans a lot.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Can someone explain the lure of single dosing to me. If you have a HG One or the likes with zero retention then the ability to grind whatever you put in and get it out again is relevant. But, a Hopper has a dual purpose which is to hold the beans and provide weight to push them through. If you remove that facility, then you start to interfere with the process and then start putting in tampers to try and help out, but the reality is it does not do much. Or have I got it wrong?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Here's one view on single dosing

http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/single-dosing-forget-it#.UtCBmH8gGSM


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

You're right but for people who drink one coffee a day or so watching the beans go stale in the hopper is painful.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Here's one view on single dosing
> 
> http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/single-dosing-forget-it#.UtCBmH8gGSM


Yeah, that's what made me realise it wasn't a great idea....but my coffee tastes good to me so I'm gonna keep doing it til my palate says otherwise.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Would be more realistic prospect if I had a separate decaf grinder. Now there's a thought...


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Milanski said:


> You're right but for people who drink one coffee a day or so watching the beans go stale in the hopper is painful.


The airtight hopper on the Sage is a great idea IMO.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> The airtight hopper on the Sage is a great idea IMO.


Airtight hopper my arse !!!!!!!!!!! The lid has an airtight seal sure but the bottom even when unlocked from the grinder and the holes in the neck are covered isn't airtight.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Been there , done that (with my mini-e).


This was an earlier quote about me thinking of making a chute with a weight on top.

Gary did it work?

Has anyone else made one of these? What are the results?


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> If you only drink one cup a dAy, then single dosing makes sense. If
> 
> You drink more than one, it does not!


Pre weighing 4, 5, 6 or even 7 doses takes a couple of minutes max


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Milanski said:


> This was an earlier quote about me thinking of making a chute with a weight on top.
> 
> Gary did it work?
> 
> Has anyone else made one of these? What are the results?


Yes it worked, it stopped pop-corning and reduced grind time.


----------



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Can someone explain the lure of single dosing to me. If you have a HG One or the likes with zero retention then the ability to grind whatever you put in and get it out again is relevant.


For me, during the week, I make a coffee at home before I go to work and one in the evening when i return. Therefore not leaving beans in the hopper for the whole week is a bonus, and due to the long gaps between drinks, zero retention is important to minimise wastage. Weekends are different with more drinks being made so I compromised to focus on what I need during the week


----------



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Here's one view on single dosing
> 
> http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/single-dosing-forget-it#.UtCBmH8gGSM


I agree with that and the comments about the HG One. Of course you could eliminate the worst of the uneven grinding by putting more coffee than you need in the hopper and removing the grind pot just before you get to grind the last of the beans. In a way doing the bean purge the opposite way round to what you'd normally do on an electric grinder. Granted it doesn't solve the problem fully


----------



## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

garydyke1 said:


> Get rid of the K10 and Mythos. get an EK43 and single dose. The grind quality will wipe the floor with both of them. You'll waste very few beans. You'll be able to extract espresso at a much higher % and start to enjoy lighter roasts : )


It makes a different kind of espresso, though. More dilute with lighter mouthfeel.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Is that your setup Andy?


----------



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

What is it about the EK43 that makes it so good at single dosing?


----------



## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Is that your setup Andy?


Yes, it is my setup.


----------



## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

Geordie Boy said:


> What is it about the EK43 that makes it so good at single dosing?


Well, first of all, everything that goes in seems to come out.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

AndyS said:


> Yes, it is my setup.


Never thought I'd say this to a fella, but nice pair!


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

...but on a slightly more serious note, is the grind quality as good with 17grams as with a full hopper?


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Given how many cafes use it for single dosing it can't be far off.


----------



## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

I'd been wondering what an EK43 would look like next to an L1. Now I know, and it's definitely not something I could get away with even if I had the cash - it's huge


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Would a say freezer bag of say blind baking stones full on top of say the 100g of beans I use in the hopper of the mythos work? Wouldn't look very classy , although with the size of the mythos hopper you still wouldn't see it .

wonder if if would improve my shot dose and consistency more ?

Or is this a truly stupid idea ?


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

drude said:


> I'd been wondering what an EK43 would look like next to an L1. Now I know, and it's definitely not something I could get away with even if I had the cash - it's huge


Someone modded it and basically took the whole of the base/tower unit away. Looked much neater for home use.

Edit:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/390508238955102209


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

jeebsy said:


> Someone modded it and basically took the whole of the base/tower unit away. Looked much neater for home use.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


That is pretty cool!


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

https://vine.co/v/hUnO5iW9e26


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Single dosing........ha! If my coffee habit was 2 cups a day, then I would buy something applicable like a Mignon which seems to do it quite well, and not bother trying to adjust a semi commercial which is not designed to single dose, to fit my coffee habit. I know it is easy when you have expensive kit, to look down on others but that is not the case. Their has to be a correlation between effort and reward, and in my case, for a domestic setting my machines all get well used. If they were collecting dust, then I would take a different approach.

That said, I am not very hands on and I do understand he pleasure tinkering gives those who can. My bottom line is always, if you enjoy what you drink, then that is all you need. If you do not have the knowledge to do better, then you are not going to be aware of your faults a anyway!


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> https://vine.co/v/hUnO5iW9e26


That looks awesome!


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> My bottom line is always, if you enjoy what you drink, then that is all you need.


That's the one!


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Xpenno said:


> That looks awesome!


It is but then I guess you'd have to modify it for brewed.


----------



## AndyS (May 12, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Never thought I'd say this to a fella, but nice pair!


I get that all the time. ;-)



Milanski said:


> ...but on a slightly more serious note, is the grind quality as good with 17grams as with a full hopper?


I've never tried it for anything but a single dose at a time. It would be trickier to use with a full hopper because the grind time per dose would be so short (2-3 secs).


----------

