# Best choice



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi

I am looking for machine for up to ~£300. First I thought about De Longhi Esam 4200 but then I found this De longhi Ec 850(+buy seperate grinder) which is a lot cheaper than 4200. They are older models found them reading amazon reviews but maybe there is something better for that money. What do you suggest for best coffee?Thanks for any help.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

At 300 buy a gaggia classic and a used commercial grinder will knock the delonghi out of the park


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yep plus one what Coffee chap said.


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

If you intend to just make espresso, then a gaggia classic is a popular choice. If you intend to steam milk on a regular basis though, I'd suggest a second hand Rancilio Silvia though, as it is much better in this regard than the Gaggia in my opinion.

No matter which machine you go for though, you'll haqve to factor in the cost of a burr grinder.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Martin

Were you looking for convenience or to explore the tastes in coffee?


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Glenn said:


> Hi Martin
> 
> Were you looking for convenience or to explore the tastes in coffee?


Explore the tastes of coffee.


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Id like to make cappuccino and latte as well so will need to steam milk sometimes


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

martin_ek said:


> Id like to make cappuccino and latte as well so will need to steam milk sometimes


Then the classic and a grinder is the way to go


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

^^^ What he said ^^^ Classic all the way.

Martin - are you from East Kilbride? (EK)


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Is the classic best choice for that price or would you rather pay a bit more for something else. What I mean I'd like to buy something for few years. Could you tell me what would be next best after gaggia classic so I can consider my options. Just wanna get best value for money. Its gonna be my first machine(but not first coffee) so dont want to go to far.


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

no am not from e.k.


----------



## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Next step up would be a rancilio silvia.

The classic, paired with a good grinder is a very capable machine.


----------



## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Whatever you choose as a machine make sure you don't scrimp on the grinder. The best machine with a crap grinder = crap coffee. Budget for both if you want to be happy.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

As above the silvia is next but will cost you more


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

ok...grinder then.....how much will have to spend on something good .How good grinder actually do I need?(still didnt read much about them)


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

A good commercial grinder can be had for £200 leaving you 100 for the classic


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Is silvia double price of classic? Could you compare them two for me ,please .Will I notice the difference


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What you will definitely notice is the difference between a £200 grinder and a classic and a £50 grinder with a silvia that is the difference in price second hand I would go for the classic and £200 grinder all day long


----------



## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

Hello Martin. This question is the dilemma of many an espresso drinker. I can only give my own personal view and experience. I have to agree with the great number of people here who say a Classic paired with a good grinder is very capable. So much so, that I have been loathed (until now) to pay the 1000 pounds it'd take to give me that real step up in quality. What you find with the classic and say a Mazzer SJ (it's just one choice of many grinders you can pick up for aroound 200 second hand) is that you will produce consostantly good espresso if you are patient enough to put the work into it.

I know a lot of people here like the Silvia but in my honest opinion, if you are willing to pay for a Silvia, you should really look at the next step up which would be a NS Oscar or Expobar Office Pulser/control. For the small difference in price, I think you will get much better performance. I've recently seen these machines at very good prices second hand and every review I've ever read for them has been excellent.

But the main point remains, you need a good grinder or you will get very little from any espresso machine.


----------



## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

Another thing in favour of the Classic is they're pretty popular so it's easy to find a second hand unit in good condition and that helps make them exceedingly good value but the Silvia appears much less often thanks to it being a more expensive unit in the first place (having owned the Classic I would have preferred the Silvia just for the improved steam arm, cleaning the Classic is a pain).

It's good advice to snag a classic for about £100 and spending the rest on a commercial grinder as that's a lot of bang for your buck, I don't see you getting a noticeably better espresso machine until you're in the £400+ range and the same for grinders, you could spend £100 on a new Iberital MC2 or you could double that and end up with a pretty outstanding second hand unit. I've seen some good deals from people selling the espresso machine and grinder so that would fit in your budget but I'd stick to coffeechap's recommendation.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

As above.

I have a Mazzer Super Jolly (bought used for the jolly good price of £175) and my Gaggia Classic was used for three months before going on ebay to me for £80. So for £255 (plus £30 for a solid tamper) I have been able to produce espressos that stand up very well indeed to coffees made in speciality coffee shops with expensive commercial machines. I have also just this week upgraded the steam wand (from a v2 Silvia) for £23 and I can see a noticeable improvement in the quality of foam produced, giving me an all-round great setup to learn on for the bargain price of £308!

IMO the Silvia is a step sideways from the Classic and as previously mentioned, the next best machine up will cost you in the region of a thousand smackers.

Therefore for £300, a commercial grinder and the Classic is an unbeatable pairing.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You will never know how much of a difference asking here before you bought is going to make to your coffee









It may sound like everyone here has an agenda to push with the Classic, but put quite simply, for £300 there is simply no better option. Even when a newcomer comes here with a £200 budget they will get recommended to spend a tad more and get the Classic+Good grinder combo. After a couple of months practice you will be blowing chain coffee shops out of the water, and probably most of the independents as well. Oh and that grinder will last you forever (unless it breaks, and they rarely do) even if you decide to upgrade to a much better machine down the line.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

"IMO the Silvia is a step sideways from the Classic and as previously mentioned, the next best machine up will cost you in the region of a thousand smackers."

I think there are other machines in between a classic and a thousand that will make good espresso tho , how about some levers for instance, and those that have or have had heavenly or cherubs speak highly of them . The Oscar also? Not within the £300 range but under £1000. There was an Oscar went for £375 I think other day .


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think it would be fair to say its possible to get a shot out of a Silvia/Classic as good as those that come from the £500ish range, but the consistency is much harder to achieve and the milk steaming is in another ball park.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Actually consistency on a hx is much easier than on a gaggia classic, however finding an hx in this guys budget with a grinder is ny on impossible, so best bet unless you get a bargain silvia is a classic plus good grinder


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Actually consistency on a hx is much easier than on a gaggia classic, however finding an hx in this guys budget with a grinder is ny on impossible, so best bet unless you get a bargain silvia is a classic plus good grinder


Agree within the OPs budget, classic and agrinder for the win. I was just throwing out there that you don't have to go to £1000 ( says the man who spent nearly twice as much on an L1 ) to the next machine for better espresso than a classic. Actually let me rephrase that ,for more consistent espresso than a classic .....


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Totally agree with you you don't have to spend anywhere near the 1000 mark for a good used hx


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Ok so after reading all your opinions am definitely gonna stick to gaggia classic then maybe just upgrade the steam wand from a v2 Silvia. Is it worth to buy 2nd hand machine what I mean is there much that can go wrong with them if somebody didnt look after it properly. I wouldnt like to buy twice .Would you rather go for new one? or are they simply like fridge or tely and last forever anyway and you wouldnt bother if its new or 2nd hand and the same question about grinder are 2nd hand once ok?will they last? or better save a bit more and buy a new stuff?


----------



## martin_ek (Oct 18, 2013)

Just started searching a bit about grinders. I'd like to buy one for 2-3 years I think .Do you think I will be happy with Mc2 which gets mentioned a lot here or better save a bit more and go for something for £200-300. Does it matter what I drink capuccino ,long coffe ,expesso shots or others if it comes to choose grinder? I thought buying gaggia classic for the start I might want to upgrade machine in few years time and I wouldnt want to upgrade both again so maybe stick to better grinder but I wouldnt like to go to far so if u have any suggestions?Best value for money.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

£300 will buy you a great grinder, especially if you go done the used commercial route


----------



## SimonB (Sep 12, 2013)

martin_ek said:


> Just started searching a bit about grinders. I'd like to buy one for 2-3 years I think .Do you think I will be happy with Mc2 which gets mentioned a lot here or better save a bit more and go for something for £200-300. Does it matter what I drink capuccino ,long coffe ,expesso shots or others if it comes to choose grinder? I thought buying gaggia classic for the start I might want to upgrade machine in few years time and I wouldnt want to upgrade both again so maybe stick to better grinder but I wouldnt like to go to far so if u have any suggestions?Best value for money.


The MC2 pops up so often because it's about the cheapest option for a good electric grinder for Espresso out of the box (£105 new, around £80 second hand), the biggest limitation is you can only make very very fine adjustments to the grind (it would take about 100 turns of the knob to go from Espresso to drip coffee) and it's not especially quiet either.

If I were making the decision from scratch I'd follow Coffeechap's advice, the only reservation I'd have is a lot of the popular grinders like Super Jolly are doser models which I don't think make much sense at home (although I wouldn't let that stop me from getting one at a bargain price).


----------



## Kyle548 (Jan 24, 2013)

martin_ek said:


> Just started searching a bit about grinders. I'd like to buy one for 2-3 years I think .Do you think I will be happy with Mc2 which gets mentioned a lot here or better save a bit more and go for something for £200-300. Does it matter what I drink capuccino ,long coffe ,expesso shots or others if it comes to choose grinder? I thought buying gaggia classic for the start I might want to upgrade machine in few years time and I wouldnt want to upgrade both again so maybe stick to better grinder but I wouldnt like to go to far so if u have any suggestions?Best value for money.


I have what amounts to an MC2 for sale.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> Actually consistency on a hx is much easier than on a gaggia classic, however finding an hx in this guys budget with a grinder is ny on impossible, so best bet unless you get a bargain silvia is a classic plus good grinder


Yea, my post wasn't so clear, thats exactly what I meant


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

SimonB said:


> The MC2 pops up so often because it's about the cheapest option for a good electric grinder for Espresso out of the box (£105 new, around £80 second hand), the biggest limitation is you can only make very very fine adjustments to the grind (it would take about 100 turns of the knob to go from Espresso to drip coffee) and it's not especially quiet either.
> 
> If I were making the decision from scratch I'd follow Coffeechap's advice, the only reservation I'd have is a lot of the popular grinders like Super Jolly are doser models which I don't think make much sense at home (although I wouldn't let that stop me from getting one at a bargain price).


I'm afraid you can't get one new for £105. The cheapest I've seen them after VAT is £136 from happydonkey who add the VAT at checkout. If you only require it for espresso the very fine adjustment isn't a limitation at all, in fact it's a really big advantage. If you need to jump between setting's however, it's useless.


----------

