# Extraction consistency



## Yakkers (Jan 7, 2021)

Hi all!

I'm new here as I've recently taken delivery of my new Sage Barista pro. After spending some time dialling in, I'm having an issue when I make multiple coffees as there is not consistency in the extractions.

for example I've just run three double shots about 2 mins after each other. First produced 29grams of coffee (about right), second produced 41grams and the third produced 21grams.

Grind is consistent throughout as I believe is the Tamp. I'm cleaning and drying the Porto filter between extractions too.

Obviously in this machine I can't see the pressure so not sure if that's changing.

Any help or have I maybe got a faulty machine?


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

How fresh is the coffee? If it's not old coffee, I'd look at the tamp and distribution. My pro took a while to dial in, and I had to spend time working out a good distribution/tamp workflow, but it's now very consistent.


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## Yakkers (Jan 7, 2021)

Roasted 18th December so doesn't feel too old. Only opened about 5 days ago. It's the inconsistency that's the issue. Getting almost double the extraction time between three different extractions feels way off.


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## Massimo (Jan 7, 2021)

By extractions you mean volume of liquid in the cup? Do you just press a button and wait for machine to shut off?

The 'volumetric' feature of the new machine is non-sense, it just lets some water through. Even if you remove the portafilter and measure how much water is the machine pouring from one time to another, you will be surprised...

I just always do shots manually. Grounds weighted on a scale, shots pulled via manually timed pre-infusion and controlling shot weight.

You can try to tune the volume of water via menu, but it's still not very consistent.


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## Yakkers (Jan 7, 2021)

Yes I mean the volume of liquid in the cup. I programme the double shot setting using the scales to benchmark the right volume of coffee I got out. So my expectation was that I would get something similar exact time but as you say it's totally hit and miss.

I take you point that I could do it manually but I'm assuming if one time it takes 20 second to give me 40grams of coffee and the next it takes 40 seconds to give me I end up with two very different coffee tastes and almost pointless dialling it in?


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## ImthatGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

Yakkers said:


> Roasted 18th December so doesn't feel too old. Only opened about 5 days ago. It's the inconsistency that's the issue. Getting almost double the extraction time between three different extractions feels way off.


 That is way off. Not what's happening with mine, so I don't have any intelligent suggestions - sorry


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yakkers said:


> I take you point that I could do it manually but I'm assuming if one time it takes 20 second to give me 40grams of coffee and the next it takes 40 seconds to give me I end up with two very different coffee tastes and almost pointless dialling it in?


 Probably less difference than you imagine, assuming grinder is purged & good prep.

It's the weight in the cup that's the driver. Pull the shots manually. I'd also avoid grinding into the portafilter, grind into a cup/pot/jug, check dose weight to 0.1g, shake receptacle to break up clumps, transfer to PF & tamp.


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## Massimo (Jan 7, 2021)

MWJB said:


> It's the weight in the cup that's the driver. Pull the shots manually. I'd also avoid grinding into the portafilter, grind into a cup/pot/jug, check dose weight to 0.1g, shake receptacle to break up clumps, transfer to PF & tamp.


 I confirm this as the best practice. I understand this is not what you expect from a semi-automatic, but it's like photography, you've got to go manual to get good results


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## Yakkers (Jan 7, 2021)

Ok, and the time it actually takes to get right weight of coffee won't matter?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Yakkers said:


> Ok, and the time it actually takes to get right weight of coffee won't matter?


 If your grind size, dose & prep are consistent (e.g. no staled grinds are being carried over from one dose to the next, you are distributing well in the basket before tamp & your doses are bang on in weight to 0.1g), then any difference in time will be down to natural variation & less than the difference in extraction.

Sure, going somewhat coarser will make shots run faster on average, going finer will slow them on average, but shots of similar extraction don't need to take the same time, to the second, they will be in a range (especially if you change bean). Good shots & poor shot times will overlap in time, because time does not have sufficient resolution to be that meaningful a guide.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've only used a Barista Express. If on your machine their is an option to switch between volume and time I suspect you would find it easier to switch to time but as mentioned weighing the shot out and accepting a smallish variation in time is easier. However time can be pretty consistent providing prep is both good and consistent. I'd suggest 30secs. Ratio of grinds in to grams of shot out TBD. It's worth trying a range.

Don't forget to purge your grinder when the setting is changed. Not doing that can lead to a lot of confusion. Any grinds at the previous setting need to be driven out.

Volume can work on the Barista Express. Actually that is how it works when a button is pushed and it's in control. I suspect I succeeded via the dose I used and also not getting the over pressure valve to open much if at all. This may not work out on their newer machines. It can also work on their Dual Boiler but I doubt if anyone would choose to do what that needs.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

As others have said, make sure you weigh out and use the manual setting. The volumetric on the BP was all over the place.

The other thing is making sure it is fully warmed up. I found I needed to do at least 3-4 blank shots with the pressurised basket in to get the thing to temp. 
I think this often explains some of the inconsistencies seen in the BP model (note unlike the BE it does not heat when left on standby at all).


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

My method of pre heating the BE wasn't favoured by many if any at all. I did it after tasting 3 shots made on the trot. I always made mine last so the first ones taste came as a bit of a surprise. The 2nd was better. So I put a pressurised basket in the portafilter and ran a 10 sec or so shot through it. Then fitted the basket I wanted to use, added the grinds etc and then pulled the shots. All came out the same. Part of this was down to preheating the portafilter so an extraction tool was needed to get the pressurised basket out. It was probably pre heating internals as well. I didn't find it much of a problem especially as pucks popped out cleanly. The new machine does have a number of differences so may not apply.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> Then fitted the basket I wanted to use, added the grinds etc and then pulled the shots. All came out the same. Part of this was down to preheating the portafilter so an extraction tool was needed to get the pressurised basket out.


 You can pop out the wire retaining clip in the PF & swap baskets in moments. Just be sure not to smack the basket out into the knock out box.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The extraction tools cost a couple of quid on Amazon and are shipped promptly for free. I also use it to get the portafilter seal out when I clean the shower screen etc and still use it on the DB. Done many times now and never damaged one.  With a mirror on the drip tray so I can see what I am doing. There is one there all of the time now, offset and angled so I can look at flow when I want to.


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