# The Barister Express Preesure Gauge and Tuning



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

These gauges aren't marked in bars so I have always bean curious about the actual pressures that they indicate so lashed up a portafilter pressure gauge to find out. This shows the results after cropping out the guages and merging the results from a video.







Could be neater but what do you expect for 10min work.









I took 3 videos and all gave the same result. There was a slight leak but all that seemed to do is allow air to escape.

Roughly speaking the espresso range shown on the dial covers 6 to 14 bar. The vertical needle position shown in the manual is around 10 bar. I've read that this should be the ideal figure on machines that don't have a rotary pump. 1 bar higher than what those will usually be set to. The over pressure valve opens at about 15 bar. Open that and a lot of water can go into the drip tray rather than through the coffee.

I've tended to favour drinks made at the higher end of the pressure range. It seems some people on here on another Sage machine prefer 6 bar. On the face of it that would need a lot more coffee and a coarser grind not helped by the lack of different basket sizes on all Sage machines. Things aren't that great on other machines that use the normal range of baskets either really.

So looks like I need to explore different brew pressures but maybe some stick to Sage's suggested needle position or others and can report what effect it has. Maybe some have thoughts on brew pressure anyway but none cropped up when I asked.

John

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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

ajohn said:


> It seems some people on here on another Sage machine prefer 6 bar. On the face of it that would need a lot more coffee and a coarser grind


It is counterintuitive but you'll have to grind finer - bigger particles extract less/harder under lower pressure


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I didn't state that very well. What I should have said is more coffee and a coarser grind is needed if the OPV is left as it is. In other words just using the quantity of coffee and the grind to control the brew pressure but still achieving the same "strength" of drink.

I'll be getting an idea of pressure against grinder settings on a couple of different basket sizes to see what happens.







Only suitable ones are the Sage double and another that I have modified that takes about 14g at my usual grinder setting. The Sage single is too small to play around with for my size of drink. It needs 14 bar brew pressure to get an acceptable drink with monsooned. Many bean wont make it even at that pressure.

John

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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

ajohn said:


> I didn't state that very well. What I should have said is more coffee and a coarser grind is needed if the OPV is left as it is. In other words just using the quantity of coffee and the grind to control the brew pressure but still achieving the same "strength" of drink.
> 
> John
> 
> -


agreed

does it use 54 mm baskets? IMS might fit, with the triple you can easily dose 20g and be happy


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Yes 54mm.







I looked on IMS's site and looked at the capacity of the competition baskets for La Spaz. The capacities have a note that on an unmodified La Spaz machine they hold the same as the La Spaz standard baskets so bought those instead. Much cheaper and identical apart from the degree of polish and no letters engraved around the rim. The 7g basket holds as much as the Sage double. With higher than normal brew pressures that can hold 20g. In the normal pressure range circa 18g. A triple would hold way over 20g. I'd estimate closer to 30. The La Spaz 14g probably would as well. Those can even be bought of Amazon but like the others the rim needs modifying.

I don't like under filling. I ran a cleaning cycle recently and also cleaned the shower screen and was running an under filled basket. Guess how many shots before the shower screen needed cleaning again? Not sure but noticed it was producing mostly one strong jet after 5 shots. With baskets filled correctly it just needs a brush over now and again.







I like nice dry pucks anyway - just one knock and then refill for the next shot. To mess things up I was only under filling to the extent that little was left behind. Soggy pucks are much worse. The 3 ways sucks all sorts back into the machine.

Sages 58mm baskets have a similar problem. Going on some measurements some one took a basket intended for machines with a conventional shower screen arrangement will hold around 7g more on a Sage. I would have expected the difference to be higher than that though.

I suppose there are some heroes about that would drink monsooned and several other beans with 20g in the basket but personally I feel that drinks that can still be tasted 1/2 hr after they have been drunk are too strong. On the other hand I do like strong coffee. My drinks are around 300ml / 10oz before I add a bit of milk. Maybe 20g would be fine in a milk drink but not in long blacks or espresso. Milk based doesn't interest me at all.

I'm trying to weaken the drink by grinding coarser which also brings the brew pressure down. So far it looks like it wont work out. Taste wise I can detect water. The only answer to any bean and any size of drink within reason is more basket sizes. The sort of thing VST do but also covering the low end. The only alternative is change drink size or just use beans to suite the available basket sizes.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> On the other hand I do like strong coffee. My drinks are around 300ml / 10oz before I add a bit of milk. Maybe 20g would be fine in a milk drink but not in long blacks or espresso.
> 
> John
> 
> -


20g dose into 300ml of beverage is normal brewed filter coffee strength.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Underfilling is not good for sure

I regularly do a triple ristretto style, 25g in 35 out, these are pretty good, sweet and syrupy with the Portaspresso


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I looked towards risteretto but not fully







so more playing about to do. I discounted going further with the Sage double. It might work out on my 14g basket. I've only recently had that - It's a La Spaz pod basket. So far for what could be called ordinary espresso based drinks in a long black my initial feeling that 12g would be ideal seems to be correct. That's too low really for the 14g. The puck looks great but isn't is the only way I can put it. The grounds seem to expand more in it. The puck comes out pretty well too even with 12g in it.







More grind setting need to be tried in it really.

I came across a comment on IMS's site about the shape Sage use on the single. Helps with puck extraction - LOL I wonder if that's why at close to optimum fill levels the puck can stick to the shower screen. It's pretty critical even 0.2g more can stop that. Being fair though the 14g can have the same problem.

I may have produced a single that holds a gram more than the usual one. I need to get back to my usual bean and roast to be sure.
















Wonder who can guess what the one with the wide perforation area is.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Stanic said:


> Underfilling is not good for sure
> 
> I regularly do a triple ristretto style, 25g in 35 out, these are pretty good, sweet and syrupy with the Portaspresso










I can't see myself changing to a Portapresso. Given some comments about the DTP I am glad I bought a BE though.

Home espresso seems to be a mad world. I've just bought a brand new Mazzer mini knowing that I'll probably have to make some bits to make it fully useful to me and it probably wont stop me from using the grinder in the BE. On the other hand it might so I need to find out. Looked at 2nd hand but decided a good deal on new was a better option.







All because it will be months before I could make a Doge doserless plus the problems with fitting it with a timer. That I think I could do but have no idea if there is enough space for the bits in it. Expense down to frustration really and I can't help feeling that conical is the best option for home use.

John

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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

ajohn said:


> Home espresso seems to be a mad world.
> 
> John
> 
> -


So very true









I'm glad to be a part of it


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## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

Only mad if you want it to be....and after too drinking too many coffees.....


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Argggggggggggggg - the "something rude with ing on the end" double shot button on the grinder arrived stuck down and wont pop up. Looks like it never has to me,

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

ajohn said:


> Argggggggggggggg - the "something rude with ing on the end" double shot button on the grinder arrived stuck down and wont pop up. Looks like it never has to me,
> 
> John
> 
> -


Turns out that the PCB wasn't installed correctly. Suspicious quality control on the casting it's fastened to.

John

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