# First machine breville barista max



## 1eutoshot

Hi.

Brand new here. Been searching the forums as a useful reference towards deciding on my first machine.

Currently top on my list is the breville barista max. https://www.breville.co.uk/breakfast/coffee-makers/breville-barista-max-espresso-coffee-machine/VCF126.html#start=1

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/small-kitchen-appliances/coffee-machines-and-accessories/coffee-machines/breville-vcf126-barista-max-coffee-machine-stainless-steel-10208109-pdt.html

Seems to have all the right features for a begginer machine. PID, 30 setting burr grinder, pre infusion and 58mm single wall filter.

Not many online reviews. Seems to be newish for breville but looks like the same machine known as sunbeam barista max.

Any forum members have any thoughts?

My other option in the budget is a sage bambino and separate grinder for £100 max.


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## earthflattener

One advantage in going for separates is that you can upgrade just one of the parts. The Sage built in grinders don't have the greatest reputation, so might be an area that you would want to modify. That said, just getting going will still be fun...


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## BlackCatCoffee

Used Classic and a bargain used ex commercial (Mazzer SJ) or a hand grinder will be a far better combo for the money.

You will get okish results from the Breville but it will be land fill fodder in a few years.

A Classic will last almost indefinitely if maintained and a hand grinder is always useful to have around or could be sold on at very little loss (if you chose wisely) if and when you decide to upgrade.

Check out the for sale section on here. I believe there are a few gems listed at the moment.....

David


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## HDAV

I always thought sage were breville rebranded for the U.K. market 🤔 look very similar.... check out the sage forum for input on the machines which appear to be very similar.

also 25% off

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/55674-25-off-sage-appliances/?do=embed

The accepted wisdom (about these parts at least) is a used gaggia classic with a few simple mods is the best value, luckily if you are into modding there are plenty of people modding them for you. Grind is critical so don't spend all your money on the machine.....


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## earthflattener

HDAV said:


> I always thought sage were breville rebranded for the U.K. market 🤔 look very similar.... check out the sage forum for input on the machines which appear to be very similar.


 Just to make things gloriously confusing... Breville is an Australian Company. In the 80s they sold the brand in Europe. So 'real' Breville products in Europe are sold as Sage. European Breville got in on the coffee act and produced machine like the one above which look remarkably similar to the Sage machines. In Australia, they are sold as Sunbeam.

I was confused earlier and assumed that you were talking about the Sage Barista Express...and hence the comment on their grinder. I know nothing about the machine that you are referring to. Maybe there are owners on here who can give you some feedback. There are plenty of Sage owners on here and especially on other sites that have their machines for 5 years or more. The parts that break in them tend to be the same as in any other machine, but you have to order these parts from abroad or after market on fleabay etc. which is a bit of a pain, but hardly an insurmountable challenge. While Sage have a very wide user base, as mentioned Gaggia has a big fan base on this site which could be handy.


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## 1eutoshot

Thanks for the advice. Yes I understand that you might get a better machine overall by buying a second hand classic. However I think for my first machine I would prefer a user friendly new with guarantee model.

Also just looked at the sage barista pro, but that is nearly £200 more than the breville barista max. With very similar specs on paper I'm not sure I can justify the extra cost.

Can anyone advise of potential issues with the breville? It seems very tuneable with variable pre infusion times and shot temperature. I understand the grinder probably is not the best but with 30 adjustments I would hope I could dial in a decent shot?


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## Rincewind

1eutoshot said:


> ...Can anyone advise of potential issues with the breville? ...


 Seek and ye shall find....the search function on here is quite good (by forum standards)....and then there is everyone's favourite spy aka Goooooogle.....end result is the same; they're shite.....do yourself a favor; avoid the tears upfront and get a Gaggia Classic.


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## cuprajake

I struggled to get anything drinkable out of a gaggia classic.

Bought a sage duo temp pro and the forst shot was 100 times better than the classic.

 Id say there good machines, if you buy from lakeland they have a 3yr warrenty too iirc.

Then once its gone you can upgrade.

Do you drink espresso or milk drinks ?


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## 24774

@1eutoshot

There's a tiresome agenda against Sage on this forum, frankly it's quite childish. Lots of received wisdom and random anecdotes (often offset by one from the other 'side'). There's a good few threads with discussion of the merits/demerits of them (usually in conjunction with the Gaggia Classic, the main beginner alternative). I'd put it into the forum search function as the info you'll get on this thread won't be complete as years of discussion. Take your time of sift through them so you understand the pros and cons of buying a Sage.

If you're thinking of a new grinder (to pair with a Bambino maybe) and were thinking of using Bella Barista, ask them what they think of Sage. They gave me the best advice on them and they don't even sell them. They're happy to talk, very helpful and knowledgable guys.

I have not heard of the Barista Max but if you were going to get a Sage it's likely John Lewis or Currys or Lakeland might have deals on some of them on Black Friday in a couple of weeks, definitely wait until then to check those out, you could maybe save a lot.

EDIT: Don't forget to budget £80-100 or so for accessories. Also be prepared to take some time to learn how to use your kit, it's not day one and go like Sage suggest. Took me a couple of months of reading this forum and asking questions before I was getting a nice consistent drink.


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## 24774

1eutoshot said:


> Can anyone advise of potential issues with the breville?


 The only real issue is if it goes wrong outside of the warranty. There's only one (I think) 'official' repair company so you have to deal with them. Everything else boils down to what you're looking to do, cost, workflow, speed etc.


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## HDAV

New brevile won't have the cult resale value of others it's a domestic appliance £300 new £50 if your lucky 2-3 years down the road used classics have appreciated (numerically at least) but they aren't everyone's cup of well...er..... coffee.......

if you aren't bothered by the prospect of junking it in 3 years or sooner if you decide to "upgrade" then go for it.

30 steps of grind adjustment is still stepped.... strapless is what is needed, not sure how many of those 30 steps are useful? 2/3 maybe?


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## earthflattener

1eutoshot said:


> Thanks for the advice. Yes I understand that you might get a better machine overall by buying a second hand classic. However I think for my first machine I would prefer a user friendly new with guarantee model.
> 
> Also just looked at the sage barista pro, but that is nearly £200 more than the breville barista max. With very similar specs on paper I'm not sure I can justify the extra cost.
> 
> Can anyone advise of potential issues with the breville? It seems very tuneable with variable pre infusion times and shot temperature. I understand the grinder probably is not the best but with 30 adjustments I would hope I could dial in a decent shot?


 Don't forget there is 25% off the SAGE stuff with the offer code that is doing the rounds. That might reduce the 200 quid difference a bit

..and yeah, waiting for Black Friday is not a bad idea. They are often reduced at that time. There are some advantages to a big corporate model


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## earthflattener

HDAV said:


> New brevile won't have the cult resale value of others it's a domestic appliance £300 new £50 if your lucky 2-3 years down the road used classics have appreciated (numerically at least) but they aren't everyone's cup of well...er..... coffee.......
> 
> if you aren't bothered by the prospect of junking it in 3 years or sooner if you decide to "upgrade" then go for it.
> 
> 30 steps of grind adjustment is still stepped.... strapless is what is needed, not sure how many of those 30 steps are useful? 2/3 maybe?


 Actually, that's not true for SAGE. If you look on ebay or whatever, you can get very good prices for 2nd hand Sage machines. There is, as was said earlier in the thread, a tiresome bias against Sage by some on this site. To be honest, I don't particularly want to be an evangelist for them, but it feels necessary to tackle ill researched bias head on.


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## itguy

Hi - well done for looking into getting a new machine - exciting and fun times ahead!

I started my espresso journey with a Sage Barista Express, before they started doing lots of different models etc. Just the normal one.

In my opinion, it has it's quirks but is a decent starter machine to get going with and get learning. I liked it because it came with everything I needed, including normal non-pressurised portafilter baskets, grinder and a wealth of YouTube and forum experience of using it. It also has a steam wand that will help you learn how to texture milk properly, it's slow and steady and does do a good job when used well.

I am worried for you regarding the UK Breville machine you list above for a few reasons;

1) It only comes with double walled portafilter baskets. I know this can be easily rectified by buying some non-pressurised, but if the machine is designed and built around using them, you may struggle to get decent shots out of it if you move away from it's standard kit

2) It is hard to know what the pump is inside and how capable it will be. Watch this James Hoffmann video review of the Aldi £299 machine - to my eyes the machine looks good, has the right spec etc but then just doesn't deliver. I'd hate for you to get the same experience with this as it would be off putting.

3) Look carefully at the two machines (the Ambiano Aldi one and the Breville) - maybe it is me, but I see some similarities...

James (the reviewer in the video) does like Sage products, he has used the dual boiler and oracle machines on his videos quite a bit - so it's not about being snobby either.

If I was in your position, I'd look round to find a Barista Express (not the touch screen one) for around the same money with a discount from somewhere. £350-400 should buy you one and mine held it's value well. I bought mine for £550 about 5 or 6 years ago, used it for 2 years and sold it for £350 via gumtree at the time.

Whatever you choose, good luck!


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## HDAV

earthflattener said:


> Actually, that's not true for SAGE. If you look on ebay or whatever, you can get very good prices for 2nd hand Sage machines. There is, as was said earlier in the thread, a tiresome bias against Sage by some on this site. To be honest, I don't particularly want to be an evangelist for them, but it feels necessary to tackle ill researched bias head on.


 I didn't mention sage...........I mentioned the Breville wouldn't have the 'cult resale value of the "others"'


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## 24774

@1eutoshot @itguy makes good points about that particular machine (Max). It's not one I've ever seen discussed on this forum, maybe for a reason. If you do choose go down the Sage route, I got the BE on Black Friday last year for £375, I would say get that instead, ie: the machine many people get and recommend rather than this one no-one has heard of (maybe it's fine, but as many it's not, as outlined above).


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## itguy

CocoLoco said:


> @1eutoshot @itguy makes good points about that particular machine (Max). It's not one I've ever seen discussed on this forum, maybe for a reason. If you do choose go down the Sage route, I got the BE on Black Friday last year for £375, I would say get that instead, ie: the machine many people get and recommend rather than this one no-one has heard of (maybe it's fine, but as many it's not, as outlined above).


 THIS!

Why risk going for something unknown vs something that is known and discussed regularly as to making half decent coffee.

There are also some advantages of a 54mm portafilter vs a 58mm - it's not all bad...


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## 24774

itguy said:


> 54mm portafilter


 Another thing that people paint as a negative (accessories are hard to get!) but is just fine.


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## 1eutoshot

Thanks all. Some really good advice there. I just missed out on the sage barista pro with 25% off on the sage website. Now showing as sold out. Guess I will have to wait until black Friday. The breville max is a big unknown which is a concern.

Two weeks ago I was thinking a deliongi dedica would match my needs. Funny how forums like this convince you that you need to double your needs.


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## hge

1eutoshot said:


> Thanks all. Some really good advice there. I just missed out on the sage barista pro with 25% off on the sage website. Now showing as sold out. Guess I will have to wait until black Friday. The breville max is a big unknown which is a concern.
> 
> Two weeks ago I was thinking a deliongi dedica would match my needs. Funny how forums like this convince you that you need to double your needs.


 Hang around longer and your budget will automatically up it self 

Jokes aside , i am more or less in the same position. I am waiting for Black Friday to pick up a Bambino Plus + Eureka grinder. As a starting point i do not wish to get into the hassle. Hopefully if it is a hobby i enjoy i can splurge more.


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## 24774

1eutoshot said:


> Funny how forums like this convince you that you need to double your needs.


 Haha, it definitely can do! Although interestingly, once you learn more about the coffee scene and, as has happened to me recently, get talking to older members about things, it can also help you scale back. It's an interesting road and you can make it as short or long as you like.


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## 1eutoshot

hge said:


> Hang around longer and your budget will automatically up it self
> 
> Jokes aside , i am more or less in the same position. I am waiting for Black Friday to pick up a Bambino Plus + Eureka grinder. As a starting point i do not wish to get into the hassle. Hopefully if it is a hobby i enjoy i can splurge more.


 Sounds sensible. I want something user friendly to start with and a machine that is ready to go in a few minutes. How much is your budget? I looked at the bambino but the quick start and boiler of the pro is swaying me right now.


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## 1eutoshot

CocoLoco said:


> Haha, it definitely can do! Although interestingly, once you learn more about the coffee scene and, as has happened to me recently, get talking to older members about things, it can also help you scale back. It's an interesting road and you can make it as short or long as you like.


 I started off thinking I would save money in the long run over my current pod machine and have less plastic waste. Plus of course have much better coffee. Win win all round.

All of the above still applies apart from the saving money bit. Will need to keep the machine for a good few years tto break even over the pods.


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## hge

1eutoshot said:


> Sounds sensible. I want something user friendly to start with and a machine that is ready to go in a few minutes. How much is your budget? I looked at the bambino but the quick start and boiler of the pro is swaying me right now.


 I am looking to spend about £500-ish. Bambino plus has a heat up time of 3 seconds heh , which is pretty great. Granted it may not tick boxes of purists. Personally I don't really have a great coffee palette , its a bit like wine , i can distinguish a shit one from a good one , but thats about it. At the end of the day i want to have a peaceful cuppa. Reading into other threads, even really expensive machines have some strange issues and as a beginner i don't want to overwhelm myself with them and tackle them.


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## earthflattener

HDAV said:


> I didn't mention sage...........I mentioned the Breville wouldn't have the 'cult resale value of the "others"'


 Yeah sure. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply criticism when I quoted you and probably shouldn't have quoted you. I was leaping off at a tangent because many make the same statement about Sage


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## 1eutoshot

After considering all of the advice I bit the bullet and ordered a Sage barista pro. Even though the breville dropped to under £300 I thought it was an unknown machine.

The barista pro was a factory refurbished model for under 50%rrp. I'm very happy with it.

It took a good few attempts to dial in the machine but now I'm making brilliant coffee. After a week of practice my milk skills have improved significantly. At first I think I was scorching the milk making it sour. All good now.


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## MarkoPolo

1eutoshot said:


> After considering all of the advice I bit the bullet and ordered a Sage barista pro. Even though the breville dropped to under £300 I thought it was an unknown machine.
> 
> The barista pro was a factory refurbished model for under 50%rrp. I'm very happy with it.
> 
> It took a good few attempts to dial in the machine but now I'm making brilliant coffee. After a week of practice my milk skills have improved significantly. At first I think I was scorching the milk making it sour. All good now.


 @1eutoshotHow are you finding the Barista Pro?


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