# Robotic Gaggia Classic



## technohippy29uk (Jan 9, 2017)

I am considering a product to turn a Gaggia Classic into a high-tech, internet connected, touch-screen IOT device. I would like to make a kit which you can buy to easily retrofit your pre-2015 machine. It would require only some re-wiring and plumbing and not significantly change the machine's external appearance.

Possible ideas/features:



Replace the front switch module with a box containing a powerful microcrontroller and a full-colour touchscreen interface with Wifi connectivity - no cutting, no external boxes!!!


Full PID temperature control


Full closed-loop pressure monitoring and control - you will be able to dial-in any pressure from 4-14 bar


Full closed-loop water flow monitoring and control - millilitre control of shot-size


Full remote control of heating, pump, steam, etc via web or mobile app


Descaling and backflushing cycles


Animated pictures


Touch-buttons for all controls (could add 0.5-second press-hold to prevent accidental touches)


Remote software upgrades


Remote espresso brew - simply load your portafilter the night before, then press the button on your mobile app - it will heat up the machine and make your coffee for you!


Compatible with Google Home, Alexa, etc


Possible additional features:



Ultrasonic water level measurement (might require case cutting)


Mains water plumbing with a solenoid valve control (case cutting)


Option of replacing the internal water tank with a thermoblock steam boiler (case cutting/modding)


External power output for your bean grinder, bluetooth scales connectivity and power control to measure the precise amount of grinds via time and/or weight (case cutting and/or extra wires hanging out)


Very interested in who might buy such a kit and how much you would be willing to pay for it!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Can't really see the remote espresso brew working. Loading up the portafilter the night before would just mean your first coffee of the day is stale & baked during the heat up of the machine.
Replacing the boiler (I assume that's what you meant with internal water tank) with a thermoblock would imo be a step backwards too & would fundamentally change the machine. You're essentially trying to turn a classic into a decent on the cheap.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ashcroc said:


> Can't really see the remote espresso brew working. Loading up the portafilter the night before would just mean your first coffee of the day is stale & baked during the heat up of the machine.
> Replacing the boiler (I assume that's what you meant with internal water tank) with a thermoblock would imo be a step backwards too & would fundamentally change the machine. You're essentially trying to turn a classic into a decent on the cheap.


 Not all heating coil or thermoblocks are the same, if you want to converse water and have super kick heat times then it's worth exploring.

10 years from now, if not sooner the concept of having to have huge boilers to drive coffee machine will be redundant I suspect.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Not all heating coil or thermoblocks are the same, if you want to converse water and have super kick heat times then it's worth exploring.
> 10 years from now, if not sooner the concept of having to have huge boilers to drive coffee machine will be redundant I suspect.


Yeah that's true enough & decent have certainly shown what's possible using them.
While I've never considered the classic boiler as huge, it doesn't just heat the water but the whole group head (& portafilter if attached) too. A thermoblock or thermocoil wouldn't do this so some other solution would have to be found.


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## technohippy29uk (Jan 9, 2017)

@*ashcroc*

I don't think you would be able to tell the difference much if the grinds were 8 hours old, especially if they were in a cold portafilter. Being able to walk down stairs to a fresh espresso might be more important to some than the incremental gains in coffee quality from grinding your beans seconds before brewing. That said it isnt top of my feature list. It would be great for people who want to show off remote coffee brewing to their mates though ?

No - I meant adding a second boiler where the water tank is, like the Gaggia Baby Twin, so you have constant steam and brew at the same time. I am not convinced myself however - I used a Baby twin as my daily for a few months and the steam power isn't great, but that might be down to some heat control or the size of the thermoblock. That is why it is an optional feature.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

technohippy29uk said:


> @*ashcroc*
> 
> I don't think you would be able to tell the difference much if the grinds were 8 hours old, especially if they were in a cold portafilter. Being able to walk down stairs to a fresh espresso might be more important to some than the incremental gains in coffee quality from grinding your beans seconds before brewing. That said it isnt top of my feature list. It would be great for people who want to show off remote coffee brewing to their mates though ?
> 
> No - I meant adding a second boiler where the water tank is, like the Gaggia Baby Twin, so you have constant steam and brew at the same time. I am not convinced myself however - I used a Baby twin as my daily for a few months and the steam power isn't great, but that might be down to some heat control or the size of the thermoblock. That is why it is an optional feature.


 A fair amount of people would , certainly the people wo are interested in flow , pressure prolong and getting the best from coffee are unlikely to then use 8 hour pre ground .

Re think which bits you want for which market you are targeting and perhaps take some time to understand how coffee is effected and made.


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## technohippy29uk (Jan 9, 2017)

Yep I get it, but it is an optional feature, and you don't need to use it.

A more useful feature is remote heat on time, event or call using a mobile app. If it is integrated with Alex or Google Home, you could say "Alexa, heat up the coffee machine" or make it do it when your alarm went off in the morning, or when you are in wifi range of your home but only between the hours of 7am - 4pm, etc. The point is, when the microcontroller has total control over everything, then everything becomes possible in software, and features are easy to enable and disable. Would you use such a device?

See render....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Remote heat up is a good idea.

Re Alexa and stuff , wrong person to get an opinion on as I wont have one in the house.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

technohippy29uk said:


> @*ashcroc*
> I don't think you would be able to tell the difference much if the grinds were 8 hours old, especially if they were in a cold portafilter. Being able to walk down stairs to a fresh espresso might be more important to some than the incremental gains in coffee quality from grinding your beans seconds before brewing. That said it isnt top of my feature list. It would be great for people who want to show off remote coffee brewing to their mates though
> No - I meant adding a second boiler where the water tank is, like the Gaggia Baby Twin, so you have constant steam and brew at the same time. I am not convinced myself however - I used a Baby twin as my daily for a few months and the steam power isn't great, but that might be down to some heat control or the size of the thermoblock. That is why it is an optional feature.


The portafilter isn't airtight so the grounds will stale over 8 hours due to their higher surface area compared to whole beans. It'd also be impossible to keep them cold while warming up the machine with the portafilter attached too. While I'd love walking down to a fresh espresso, the closest I've managed is a timer plug so I can prepare & brew immediately on a hot machine or a bean to cup.
Hadn't realised you were planning on using the thermoblock/coil solely for steam so thanks for the clarification. I can see that working quite well if done right & it shouldn't take much to improve the Classic's capabilities.


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## technohippy29uk (Jan 9, 2017)

It could work for other models also, but the Classic has a conveniently large switch module. I could offer models for other units, and I have considered also providing a model which would provide a screen inside a 40mm pressure gauge bezel and use hardware buttons rather than a touch screen.

If the kit did the things listed and discussed, would you buy it, and how much would you pay for it???


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

Can appreciate the incentive to sell, though this would make a great open source project given the modding community that already exists around the Classic. Worth considering if you'd be happy monetising it in a different way. I'm not interested in the IoT aspect, but an extensible interface could be very popular.


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## MartinB (May 8, 2011)

Timer switch worked fine for me when I had my Classic in daily use.


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## Pants001 (Mar 13, 2019)

Ye even if the grinds don't get stale, you'll taste the burn from the 15mins heat up. Ive locked the handle in place too early before and had to wait 5 or so mins and the coffee was terrible.

As others have said the idea of remote warm up is a good one, Ive considered something like a TP-Link HS100 wifi smart plug ($29au)


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## RobbieTheTruth (Jun 4, 2019)

technohippy29uk said:


> I am considering a product to turn a Gaggia Classic into a high-tech, internet connected, touch-screen IOT device. I would like to make a kit which you can buy to easily retrofit your pre-2015 machine. It would require only some re-wiring and plumbing and not significantly change the machine's external appearance.
> 
> Possible ideas/features:
> 
> ...


 I think it's a bit OTT for most (even on here!) I would be interested in seeing such a machine though!

Personally, I'd buy up a few old used classics and modify them to 9 Bar, install a pressure gauge, install a PID, put the brass shower head on. 3D print the thinner drip tray and essentially sell the 'perfect' starter machine.

Get a good rep for doing this and you'd likely become the 'go to' guy when people ask for a starter machine.

When I did my reading, it appeared the Gaggia Classic with 9 Bar and PID was the ideal machine, but there was none available at the 'for sale' section and there was no real go to guy. I reached out to GaggiaManualService and he couldn't help with PID.

Just my opinion though - personally, I hope you do make the machine you mentioned. I'm also keen on seeing you develop the Dual Boiler Gaggia/KitchenAid!


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