# Sage smart grinder pro, yay or nay?



## Exeon

So I'm basically looking for both a decent espresso machine and a grinder to pair with it.

I've stumbled upon Sage, from an aestetic point of view the grinder looks great, the price point seemed way too steep for me.

However I've found a refurbished model, with 12 months of warrenty for 150€, is this worth it over say the Baratza Encore that cost 140€?

Or should I forget about the above and buy a different grinder alltogether for around 150€? I'm mainly looking at amazon.de/fr/UK


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## CJV8

If you shop around a bit you should find the Sage Smart Grinder Pro for less than Amazon. Depending on where you're based / are ordering from be careful given the Pound's not doing so well against the Euro at present.

This place has the grinder for £129.99: https://www.ecookshop.co.uk/ecookshop/product.asp?pid=SCG820BTR&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImLzO79C65wIVia3tCh34QAgPEAQYASABEgIyf_D_BwE

As for whether you should go for it, it depends what you want out of a grinder. If it's purely for espresso I'd say there are better grinders available (have a read of the grinder section of the forum), but if like me you'd use it for umpteen different brew methods at different grind settings I'd say you'd struggle to do better at that price point. Mine's been going about 18 months without a hitch with daily use, constantly getting adjusted for espresso, aeropress and filter.


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## Exeon

CJV8 said:


> If you shop around a bit you should find the Sage Smart Grinder Pro for less than Amazon. Depending on where you're based / are ordering from be careful given the Pound's not doing so well against the Euro at present.
> 
> As for whether you should go for it, it depends what you want out of a grinder. If it's purely for espresso I'd say there are better grinders available (have a read of the grinder section of the forum), but if like me you'd use it for umpteen different brew methods at different grind settings I'd say you'd struggle to do better at that price point. Mine's been going about 18 months without a hitch with daily use, constantly getting adjusted for espresso, aeropress and filter.


 Well I live in Belgium, so it mostly boils down to shipping cost, currently pound to euro is 1,18€ for 1 pound, making the link you sent cost about the same as what I had in mind.

As far as it's purpose goes, it would only be used for a manual espresso machine, that said I'm mostly going to be making Latte's, but I doubt that impacts much, I'll look around in the grinder section, thanks for the advice


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## allikat

The issue with the Sage is longevity. A lot of people who reviewed it over on Amazon and elsewhere have complained about a small plastic impeller in the machine wearing to the point it was unusable. The impeller sweeps the grounds out of the grinding chamber. Recent models have had a changed impeller with a steel cover.

As you're in Belgium there should be a reasonably good supply of used commercial grinders around. Any of those will leave a low end home gamer grinder in the dust, an issue I'm struggling with myself. Maybe there's a cafe nearby upgrading equipment? If you have the space for these monsters of course.


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## Exeon

allikat said:


> The issue with the Sage is longevity. A lot of people who reviewed it over on Amazon and elsewhere have complained about a small plastic impeller in the machine wearing to the point it was unusable. The impeller sweeps the grounds out of the grinding chamber. Recent models have had a changed impeller with a steel cover.
> 
> As you're in Belgium there should be a reasonably good supply of used commercial grinders around. Any of those will leave a low end home gamer grinder in the dust, an issue I'm struggling with myself. Maybe there's a cafe nearby upgrading equipment? If you have the space for these monsters of course.


 I see, well I do understand the issue with longtivity, I'll be sure to consider this before I decide.

Indeed, you can find things second hand, the issue is that often whatever they are selling I'm unfamiliar with, I see brand I can find little information about, so I can't really see if something is a bargain or I should steer away from it.

I'm not looking to get the godlike best coffee possible here, I'm going for best value, as far as grinder budget goes, I'm probably looking between 150-200€ is it not possible to find a decent grinder at that price point?


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## allikat

£150-£200 is about the starting point for good beginner espresso grinders new in the UK. So you're fine there. That would pick up an Iberital MC2, a Eurika Mignon Manuale or a Gaggia MDF. Some of those listed are better than others, as those who have used them will happily tell you.


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## Sly

I bought one a few years back with the same criteria as you (decent value for around that price). Use it daily and never had any problems with it. It grinds well, easy and quick to adjust, maintenance is minimal, easy to clean, doesn't look silly in the kitchen. Basically I'm saying it's pretty safe, no horror stories and has proved to be good value.


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## Dale Cooper

I'm new here after buying a SGP (currently waiting for delivery) but started getting the typical buyer's remorse that comes from reading too many opinions form people who have machines in a different class/budget!

I know it's not perfect, and no machine will be at this price point, but reviews like this give me faith https://coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-smart-grinder-pro-review/ though my biggest anxiety is getting a grind fine enough for espresso. Some say it's fine, a lot of people say it's not. Do those who don't have the palettes for the more expensive machines agree? There is the option of adjusting the burrs but according to Breville and a few videos I saw from Seattle Coffee Co, this should not be done out of the box and is only for when the burrs wear down.

How do people get on grinding on this for espresso? OK out the box? Any adjustments needed? Should I reconsider selling a child to buy a niche? This will be my first grinder but I do believe in buy once, buy right so want it to last a few years at least. Hate the idea of being disappointed with what I, to me, is a big first outlay and very exciting purchase.


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## BlackCatCoffee

Dale Cooper said:


> I'm new here after buying a SGP (currently waiting for delivery) but started getting the typical buyer's remorse that comes from reading too many opinions form people who have machines in a different class/budget!
> 
> I know it's not perfect, and no machine will be at this price point, but reviews like this give me faith https://coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-smart-grinder-pro-review/ though my biggest anxiety is getting a grind fine enough for espresso. Some say it's fine, a lot of people say it's not. Do those who don't have the palettes for the more expensive machines agree? There is the option of adjusting the burrs but according to Breville and a few videos I saw from Seattle Coffee Co, this should not be done out of the box and is only for when the burrs wear down.
> 
> How do people get on grinding on this for espresso? OK out the box? Any adjustments needed? Should I reconsider selling a child to buy a niche? This will be my first grinder but I do believe in buy once, buy right so want it to last a few years at least. Hate the idea of being disappointed with what I, to me, is a big first outlay and very exciting purchase.


 Sorry to be negative but if you genuinely do want to buy once and get it right and you see yourself getting seriously in to coffee then you are likely to be disappointed.


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## Kannan

Dale Cooper said:


> I'm new here after buying a SGP (currently waiting for delivery) but started getting the typical buyer's remorse that comes from reading too many opinions form people who have machines in a different class/budget!
> 
> I know it's not perfect, and no machine will be at this price point, but reviews like this give me faith https://coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-smart-grinder-pro-review/ though my biggest anxiety is getting a grind fine enough for espresso. Some say it's fine, a lot of people say it's not. Do those who don't have the palettes for the more expensive machines agree? There is the option of adjusting the burrs but according to Breville and a few videos I saw from Seattle Coffee Co, this should not be done out of the box and is only for when the burrs wear down.
> 
> How do people get on grinding on this for espresso? OK out the box? Any adjustments needed? Should I reconsider selling a child to buy a niche? This will be my first grinder but I do believe in buy once, buy right so want it to last a few years at least. Hate the idea of being disappointed with what I, to me, is a big first outlay and very exciting purchase.


 Pretty sure it's the same if not almost the same mech in the Oracle - which is fine for espresso but certainly not amazing... I used the Oracle for many years before upgrading it, didn't know much better and it was a huge step up from the De'Longhi bean to cup I had before... I think price wise it is a good deal but as BlackCatCoffee says you will probably want to upgrade it at some stage if you get serious about your espresso...

My palette for coffee has developed over the years, I'm not sure I could have told the difference between the grinders 5 years ago and now I can although I think it's definitely not as pronounced as some people's...

Personally I'd learn on the SGP since you've already ordered it and when your children become particularly annoying consider at first renting them out for periods of time (I hear we need cheap labour for fruit picking right now) to subsidise your (Sette, Eureka, Niche) purchase before actually selling them for good


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## Abcan

Dale Cooper said:


> I'm new here after buying a SGP (currently waiting for delivery) but started getting the typical buyer's remorse that comes from reading too many opinions form people who have machines in a different class/budget!
> 
> I know it's not perfect, and no machine will be at this price point, but reviews like this give me faith https://coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-smart-grinder-pro-review/ though my biggest anxiety is getting a grind fine enough for espresso. Some say it's fine, a lot of people say it's not. Do those who don't have the palettes for the more expensive machines agree? There is the option of adjusting the burrs but according to Breville and a few videos I saw from Seattle Coffee Co, this should not be done out of the box and is only for when the burrs wear down.
> 
> How do people get on grinding on this for espresso? OK out the box? Any adjustments needed? Should I reconsider selling a child to buy a niche? This will be my first grinder but I do believe in buy once, buy right so want it to last a few years at least. Hate the idea of being disappointed with what I, to me, is a big first outlay and very exciting purchase.


 Hi

I'm fairly new to this. I bought a Gaggia Classic and SGP (paid £60) from forum members. I find the SGP fine for espresso. I use it for (fresh) medium and dark roast and find it quite easy to get the correct ratios out (normally 17g in 34g out In around 30 secs) it's produced much nicer coffee than my previous Delonghi. It's definitely a little inconsistent but not as bad as I thought it would be. If I was you I'd keep it and give it go. Obviously there are better grinders out there and I'm not sure I would have bought a new one but if you keep it for 6 months and sell it for £60-70 you've not made a huge loss. I can see me keeping it for around 6 - 12 months and then getting something better.

Al


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## Dale Cooper

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Sorry to be negative but if you genuinely do want to buy once and get it right and you see yourself getting seriously in to coffee then you are likely to be disappointed.


 That's what I was afraid of. Had been eyeing up the niche for sale in classified section and trying to stop myself spending such a lot of money from the off.



Kannan said:


> My palette for coffee has developed over the years, I'm not sure I could have told the difference between the grinders 5 years ago and now I can although I think it's definitely not as pronounced as some people's...


 So this is what I'm hoping, as it seems more sensible - a couple of years on this until I'm able to actually appreciate the difference a step up would make. My 'buy once buy right' comes with the caveat that I can upgrade! I just don't want to buy something that is going to be disappointing straight away. Will this grind fine enough for an espresso? I drink at good coffee shops and avoid high street ones so I'd like to think I know what good coffee tastes like. Whilst I don't expect it to produce the best grinds known to man I do expect a good standard. At home I currently drink a mix of aeropress and Chemex. If it helps, I only drink black coffee - mostly Americanos and the occasional espresso but I see that being vice versa quite soon ...especially as trying to work form home during lockdown with 2 small children running around is needing more and more caffeination!

Knowing nothing about kit for home about a week ago this forum has been very helpful in moving me very swiftly away from something like a Delonghi bean to cup to the current order of a SGP and DTP -both from John Lewis so returnable if needed before I open- so I'm very grateful for that (much to my wife's disappointment of not being able to simply 'push a button' for coffee!) ... but by the same token I don't want to get carried away on first purchase. I've already spent way more than I first envisaged. @Kannan have you had to adjust the burrs at all for getting a good espresso grind. I do like mostly light to medium roasts (I think - my reference points of much loved classics are Small Batch Goldstone Espresso and Horsham Roasters house blend)


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## Dale Cooper

Abcan said:


> Hi
> 
> I'm fairly new to this. I bought a Gaggia Classic and SGP (paid £60) from forum members. I find the SGP fine for espresso. I use it for (fresh) medium and dark roast and find it quite easy to get the correct ratios out (normally 17g in 34g out In around 30 secs) it's produced much nicer coffee than my previous Delonghi. It's definitely a little inconsistent but not as bad as I thought it would be. If I was you I'd keep it and give it go. Obviously there are better grinders out there and I'm not sure I would have bought a new one but if you keep it for 6 months and sell it for £60-70 you've not made a huge loss. I can see me keeping it for around 6 - 12 months and then getting something better.
> 
> Al


 Thanks! Are you on standard settings for espresso grinding or any adjustments needed? If I'd paid £60 I wouldn't be having any regrets. £175 is a bit more ?


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## Abcan

Dale Cooper said:


> Thanks! Are you on standard settings for espresso grinding or any adjustments needed? If I'd paid £60 I wouldn't be having any regrets. £175 is a bit more ?


 I agree £175 is a lot more! (I think for that sort of money I'd look for a second hand Mignon) I have the top burr set to 6 (think this is set as it leaves the factory) and then I set the grind between 16 and 10 depending on the beans and the age. There's still a large amount of adjustment to go finer. I've chocked the machine a good few times dialling in a new bean so for me it can definitely grind fine enough.


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## Kannan

Abcan said:


> I agree £175 is a lot more! (I think for that sort of money I'd look for a second hand Mignon) I have the top burr set to 6 (think this is set as it leaves the factory) and then I set the grind between 16 and 10 depending on the beans and the age. There's still a large amount of adjustment to go finer. I've chocked the machine a good few times dialling in a new bean so for me it can definitely grind fine enough.


 If you have the choice right now, I think I'd agree with that, get a better second hand grinder before you open the SGP...



Dale Cooper said:


> Knowing nothing about kit for home about a week ago this forum has been very helpful in moving me very swiftly away from something like a Delonghi bean to cup to the current order of a SGP and DTP -both from John Lewis so returnable if needed before I open- so I'm very grateful for that (much to my wife's disappointment of not being able to simply 'push a button' for coffee!) ... but by the same token I don't want to get carried away on first purchase. I've already spent way more than I first envisaged. @Kannan have you had to adjust the burrs at all for getting a good espresso grind. I do like mostly light to medium roasts (I think - my reference points of much loved classics are Small Batch Goldstone Espresso and Horsham Roasters house blend)


 I like a medium roast (been using fruit and nut espresso from Pact for a while, also tried Square Mile's Redbrick and Origin Das Almas... I never needed to adjust the burrs since I had it white gloved (that's a service that came with the Oracle)... but I'm not sure if the Oracle grinder and the SGP are the same in that respect... I have used a Kruve to see what the grind sizes/distribution was like, but not sure I got any meaningful results out of that experiment, I'm still working on it!

Sorry just to add, I've consistently got as good or better coffee than most "decent" coffee houses from my Oracle (Monmouth etc)...


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## Dale Cooper

Thanks I'm keeping an eye out for a second hand mignon though a bit short on time - it's supposedly a birthday present to myself for next week. I almost bought the niche in the classifieds yesterday before checking in with myself that a £400 first purchase grinder was perhaps getting a bit carried away. So easy to do though reading the threads here...

Speaking of which, does anyone know the post count needed to reply to a classified? I'm not sure I could've offered on the niche even if I went rogue

@Black Cat Coffee currently top of my list if I go down the new mignon route ? just not sure if my budget stretches quite that far ...yet!

If I can't talk myself into a new mignon or a 2nd hand one doesn't come up I may still open the SGP and some of the comments here have been very encouraging - thanks for all the honest opinions


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## Kannan

Dale Cooper said:


> Speaking of which, does anyone know the post count needed to reply to a classified


 lol, sounds like you were saved by the tech ... 5 posts should allow you to reply to classifieds


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## jazzersi

I love my sage smart grinder pro, it comfortably grinds fine enough and is so easy to switch to coarser grinds quickly for when I'm making pour over/french press etc. I think a lot of the negative comments you can find on forums come from the older model which needed to be shimmed in order to grind very fine - the new ones do not require this modification. Plus the two year warranty and supposedly great support available from sage make it a fairly safe purchase in my opinion.

Disclosure: I'm relatively new to espresso game.


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## Samnaylor

jazzersi said:


> I love my sage smart grinder pro, it comfortably grinds fine enough and is so easy to switch to coarser grinds quickly for when I'm making pour over/french press etc. I think a lot of the negative comments you can find on forums come from the older model which needed to be shimmed in order to grind very fine - the new ones do not require this modification. Plus the two year warranty and supposedly great support available from sage make it a fairly safe purchase in my opinion.
> 
> Disclosure: I'm relatively new to espresso game.


 Thanks that's helpful. Do you know how old the 'bad' model is? I'm looking to buy a second-hand/refurbished model but don't want to fall into that trap.


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## dutchy101

I might have one coming up for sale soon. Have been tempted by a new grinder that I've seen. I bought it brand new last June and it's had about 7 kilos through it. It's pretty much in mint condition and has been cleaned every time I have changed beans.


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## ajohn

allikat said:


> complained about a small plastic impeller


 I get sick to death of comments like this - they have had metal on said impeller for a long time. Several other aspects crop up as well that do not relate to their current grinders at all.


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## ajohn

Exeon said:


> However I've found a refurbished model, with 12 months of warrenty for 150€, is this worth it over say the Baratza Encore that cost 140€?


 I'd suggest you test two things if it's a refurbished one. First one is the outer burr - is it the adjustable type. Download the manual from Sage's site. It probably will be. There was an earlier version where *some *grinders needed shims to adjust them. They haven't been around for years so unlikely to be one of those.

Second thing when you get it. Grinder empty no beans, just the burrs clean. Set a coarse setting say 20+ and run the grinder *manually * and slowly reduce the setting. If the motor speed drops stop immediately. Don't use the timer option when doing this as it can only be stopped at the plug. Say this happens at setting 1 and it only slows slightly, go coarser and then to setting 2. Too coarse and then finer is always the way to do that. If that doesn't slow the motor you've reached perfection and no point in using setting one. Adjust the burr coarser if the motor slows sooner. The need to look at this is the web again and people saying adjust the outer burr as it will grind finer - it wont unless the grinder hasn't been calibrated properly when it was built. They can't be calibrated that precisely so comparing settings between different grinders is pointless.

Simpler option - check that the outer burr is at it's default setting. That is shown in the manual. If you can't grind fine enough check as above as the outer burr is adjusted one step at a time. The usual reason for can't grind fine enough is crap beans on an espresso machine. Mine did manage crap beans but I may have been lucky when I bought them.


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## Benjivee1979

dutchy101 said:


> I might have one coming up for sale soon. Have been tempted by a new grinder that I've seen. I bought it brand new last June and it's had about 7 kilos through it. It's pretty much in mint condition and has been cleaned every time I have changed beans.


 When are you thinking?


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## dutchy101

Possibly next week. Depending on whether I order the Solo or not


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## shodjoe1

Dale Cooper said:


> I'm new here after buying a SGP (currently waiting for delivery) but started getting the typical buyer's remorse that comes from reading too many opinions form people who have machines in a different class/budget!
> 
> I know it's not perfect, and no machine will be at this price point, but reviews like this give me faith https://coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-smart-grinder-pro-review/ though my biggest anxiety is getting a grind fine enough for espresso. Some say it's fine, a lot of people say it's not. Do those who don't have the palettes for the more expensive machines agree? There is the option of adjusting the burrs but according to Breville and a few videos I saw from Seattle Coffee Co, this should not be done out of the box and is only for when the burrs wear down.
> 
> How do people get on grinding on this for espresso? OK out the box? Any adjustments needed? Should I reconsider selling a child to buy a niche? This will be my first grinder but I do believe in buy once, buy right so want it to last a few years at least. Hate the idea of being disappointed with what I, to me, is a big first outlay and very exciting purchase.


 You won;t be disappointed,most of the bad reviews are about damaged out the box or so.I'm brewing finger liking espressos every day and dont experiencing any kind of issues,easy to tune the grind,also easy to clean with portable blow dryer .You can keep beans in the hopper,it has seal proof lid or use it as a single dose version too

My experience is positive!


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## dutchy101

@Benjivee1979 up now:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/59172-sage-smart-grinder-pro-for-sale/?do=embed


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## Artie

I've been using this grinder for the last 4 years now with a Rocket Appartamento. I bought it when it was branded the "Sage by Heston Blumenthal".

Anyone who says this grinder cannot do espresso grind is talking nonsense. I can only assume they're using stale beans. Freshly roasted beans (given the appropriate time to degas) dialed in on setting 5-7 will extract 36g within 25-30 seconds. If you dial the grinder to 1 (the finest setting) you're going to have to wait a minute of so for some pretty undrinkable espresso. (I've only ever used the lowest grind setting once, on some mass produced supermarket crap a long time ago).

It's very versatile (I use it for Aeropress too), and the design is very well thought out, from those well placed magnets that make everything snap together, to the button that activates the grinder when you push the portafilter into the cradle.

As a first and entry level grinder, I could not recommended it enough. It's pretty good value for the number of features it provides.


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## dutchy101

With my SGP I have never managed to get below setting 8 without it choking my machine and that was only ever with one bean. Typically I was always around the 14 - 11 range.

Wonder if this is down to a design change in the later versions?


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## ajohn

dutchy101 said:


> With my SGP I have never managed to get below setting 8 without it choking my machine and that was only ever with one bean. Typically I was always around the 14 - 11 range.
> 
> Wonder if this is down to a design change in the later versions?


 There was a batch of bad ones years ago before they changed the design. There was also a plastic part that used to wear out some time before that. That's been fixed too.

There really is a lot of garbage about on this particular grinder. I've used all sorts now and true grinders can change taste but brewing ratios and time can as well making that area rather tricky. The other point is budget. Most people have one and at it's price point I personally think it's good value for money and people could do worse.

The grinds are not inconsistent and that can be shown by using several settings and finding that they do go back to previous settings. Output with time varies. Sore point on all timer grinders if people want to be very accurate with dose. It can stabilise pretty well if the same bean is used all of the time but even then time adjustments will be needed now and again.

One feature it has that can actually crop up on others is going coarser - go too coarse and then fine to where you want to be. If you are using it hopper on waste say 5g of grinds each time to change settings. Going more than one step finer without the grinder running is not a good idea.

Don't adjust the outer burr unless you are unlucky enough to find that you need to but beware about making that decision on none fresh roasted beans. If you have used those and found typical setting say 10 to 16 and then find one of these beans needs to go lower check the rate the output drops as it's set finer. On some it will hardly drop at all however fine you grind. Grind setting number can't really be compared on these between different grinders. The change for a range of numbers will be very similar.


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## dutchy101

Yeah from a user perspective I've always thought it's been a brilliant grinder for what I wanted and especially for the money I paid for it. It was the perfect starter grinder for someone like myself when dipping their toe into the world of home espresso for the first time and needing something easy to use which gives great results in the cup. My one served me very well.


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## ajohn

Lots do upgrade at some point and an SGP is pretty easy to sell. All used from new grinders are likely to loose 30% or so of their price. When I did that a Mignon at the time looked like a none starter having seen photo's of what came out of it. I went for an electronic mazzer mini. These days I suspect people might go for Niche or maybe the new Solo. Mignons now pass as haven't used one or seen any output. Reviews showing output aren't much use really as types of beans can have an effect on that. The other point is that burrs need some running in before they will do their best. Even Sage, mind you I suspect I did that on mine while learning to brew. It's easy to waste a kg+ of beans over time some way or the other. Some grinders can carry on improving over several kg.


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## dutchy101

Having moved to a single doser now it's definitely the right move for me. Really enjoying having the ability to switch up my beans - especially as my wife has moved to decaf recently. Feels good to be able to have coffee together again.

Completely agree with your sentiments on the SGP.


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## evoman

I've been using a a sage smart grinder for several years and been happy with it. However, it died this week, so I don't think it was built to the same specs as many more reliable models. But it was cheap and worked well, so I'd potentially buy another


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