# On the verge of giving up



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Had my Expobar dual leva for a few weeks now and I am on the verge of giving up. I just can't get a coffee that tastes good from any bean I try. I have followed everyone's advice and no matter what I do every shot tastes sour. I must have wasted about £70 of coffee now. I can get the ratios spot on but the coffee never tastes right. I weigh in and weigh out and hubby guesses his and we have only had one type of bean that is drinkable. I use the naked portafilter and it comes out fine with no channeling etc. I have used up nearly all my limoncillo beans I have just bought from hasbeans in 1 session. All of them sinkers. I really don't know what to do next.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

I presume these shots are espresso only? Have you tasted them in milk?

What temperature is your brew water, I'm sure I have read that sourness can be caused by too low a temperature.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'd get some training - one on one . you will get a heap of people with ideas now along the lines of

Brew temp -

channeling -

get a different coffee -

different water -

try a different ratio - basket - grinder, tamper

get someone to help you dial in and calibrate your pallet . Otherwise you may be going with along the 10 different suggestions you will now get to solve the problem and feel like you are getting nowhere as you change on thing after another

Do you like espresso ? if so from where


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

mremanxx said:


> I presume these shots are espresso only? Have you tasted them in milk?
> 
> What temperature is your brew water, I'm sure I have read that sourness can be caused by too low a temperature.


I prefer espresso to milky drinks. I have tried upping the temperature to 97 but it made no difference.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> I'd get some training


That's what I was thinking but I am guessing it's very expensive.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> That's what I was thinking but I am guessing it's very expensive.


Not in comparison to the coffee and the machines you have bought

Where are you based ?


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Leighton buzzard Bedfordshire not far from Milton Keynes.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Leighton buzzard Bedfordshire not far from Milton Keynes.


Start a thread asking if there is anyone near you for training , or a friendly forum member that will help you

What espresso do you like ( bean and from where )


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

A one on one session would stop the wastage, also perhas the beans you are using are just not to your taste preference


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

I would love a one on one session. Who would cover my area?


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Start a thread asking if there is anyone near you for training , or a friendly forum member that will help you
> 
> What espresso do you like ( bean and from where )


The only espresso bean I have found drinkable on my machine is one called dolce scuro. Which section shall I post a thread in?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Tigermad said:


> Which section shall I post a thread in?


Barista skills for the home enthusiast, maybe?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

dolce scuro, so sweet and dark!! no wonder you are getting nothing from the limoncello


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

This is the bean I prefer out of all the ones I have tried. http://thehouseofcoffee.co.uk/shop/blended-coffee/dolce-scuro/


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> The only espresso bean I have found drinkable on my machine is one called dolce scuro. Which section shall I post a thread in?


Do you like espresso from a cafe then ? if so where and what do they serve


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Do you like espresso from a cafe then ? if so where and what do they serve


Unfortunately I like cafe Nero etc which I know you cringe at. I guess they use dark roasted coffees.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Unfortunately I like cafe Nero etc which I know you cringe at. I guess they use dark roasted coffees.


then most thing will taste sour in comparison i fear

What coffee have you tried at home


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Foundry rocko mountain, hasbean longberry limoncillo, bella barista milk buster and gaslight. We used to have a Jura bean to cup and only ever used lavazza and illy etc. Are our taste buds just never going to get used to proper coffee?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Foundry rocko mountain, hasbean loganberry limoncillo, bella barista milk buster and gaslight. We used to have a Jura bean to cup and only ever used lavazza and illy etc. Are our taste buds just never going to get used to proper coffee?


Id try something closer to the nero stuff you like

perhaps one of the coffee compass fans can recommend a darker roasted bean that would be better than nero but more ball park for you preference


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Foundry rocko mountain, hasbean longberry limoncillo,


these two are great coffee's but along way away from your current preference of a darker type blend ( nero and the other one you linked )


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Id try something closer to the nero stuff you like
> 
> perhaps one of the coffee compass fans can recommend a darker roasted bean that would be better than nero but more ball park for you preference


Thanks. Maybe the hasbean one isn't ready yet, it was roasted Monday.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

What about trying something darkish but neutral. I was thinking Red Brick as it has Choco flavour with a hint of fruit but not full on FUnk.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

urbanbumpkin said:


> What about trying something darkish but neutral. I was thinking Red Brick as it has Choco flavour with a hint of fruit but not full on FUnk.


Where do i get those? I was thinking of just trying my usual lavazza and if I can't get that to a taste I like I'm screwed. Just so I can see if it is something I'm doing wrong. Can't keep spending money on beans I may not have a taste for.


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## Tewdric (Apr 20, 2014)

Try Union Hand Roasted Revelation. It's a dark Italian style blend but very high quality and extremely tasty, and very easy to extract.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Tewdric said:


> Try Union Hand Roasted Revelation. It's a dark Italian style blend but very high quality and extremely tasty, and very easy to extract.


They sell those in ocado


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Square Mile do Red brick. It was the first one that sprang to mind. I'm sure there's others that people would recommend.

Are there any forum members near Milton Keynes that can help out Tigermad with some basic pointers.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

urbanbumpkin said:


> What about trying something darkish but neutral. I was thinking Red Brick as it has Choco flavour with a hint of fruit but not full on FUnk.


Square Mile 'Red Brick' is a nice coffee - though if you prefer dark roasts, and if you can get it shipped then I can recommend Skybury coffee. I don't know if they will ship it as I was brought some back (only 125g unfortunately). The dark roast is dark, very shiny/oily and really really nice. It just clumps and falls out of the grinder instead of spraying out its that rich. Worth a shot if they ship?


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

There are a number of Compass single origins which would fit your preferences. Try 'Old Brown Java' or maybe 'Colombia Maragogype'. Just trying this and loving it! Coffee Compass roasts seem to be a lot more tolerant than some others to less than perfect technique.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

That coffee you linked to is a blend with Robusta in it. Maybe Rave Italian Job would be a similar match due to Robusta content but I'm not too au fait with the darker beans.

As @urbanbumpkin said, is there anyone nearby that might be able to lend a hand?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Tigermad, don't give up.  I remember my early days with the Gaggia Classic and my Porlex Mini! Many times I got up and thought - do you know what? Sod it. Let's just end it here. Instead, I pulled a shot, tried something different. Incredibly frustrating, I know, but then you get the hang of it, things make sense and it is great. Don't be under the illusion it is easy though. It can take some time, maybe months. Patience, persistence.... It will be worthwhile in the end.

May I make a suggestion though? I don't know if you have tried it already but, since you like Cafe Nero, have you tried to go there and just buy 250 grams of it and try on your machine? Get the temperature back to 92 C and give it a crack, see if you can compare. Once you are happy with the results there, then try a different bean. Also, generally HasBean is not for everyone, at least they are not for me, I find them bright and fruity, in my opinion.

Failing Nero, give a go to Waitrose Espresso beans. They come in a tin. See if you like that. I personally don't like it, the taste is bland, but see if a darker roast profile is more suitable for your palate. Worse case scenario you've wasted £3.29. Then you can try some freshly roasted beans again, from anywhere you like and appreciate the difference.

Also, wait about 20 minutes after you change the temperature of your brew boiler, and make sure you run a couple of ounces through the group first.

Have you also spoken to Claudette at BB? Would it be a possibility that you could take your machine there, so maybe they could give some advice and hopefully show you, on your own machine, how to improve things?

Hope that helps and good luck.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Do you like espresso from a cafe then ? if so where and what do they serve


This would be my suggestion. Are there any local specialty coffee shops where you could visit and try various espressos? If so, find out which beans they were using and maybe purchase a bag to take home if they sell them, otherwise order online.

Otherwise you may just repeat what you've found thus far...and that is you have been unable to make espresso at home that you like the taste of.

All suggestions from other members who are clearly trying to help are fine but I'm guessing no one has your palate and that is where the problem may lie?

I've ordered a number of beans after reading glowing praise about them from members who absolutely love them...only to find they didn't suit my palate at all. What one member likes, someone else may not.

Espresso is very hard to get spot on, especially if you haven't been doing it for very long and have had no training. Just bear that in mind before you give up altogether!

Just my tuppence.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Excellent advice from everyone (as usual). I think I will try the waitrose idea or Costco lavazza just a test and find some coffee shops that sell their beans on the premises. Fed up of buying ones I don't like. Still got an unopened bag of bourbon from hasbean. Guess I probably won't like that either :-(


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Good luck tiger

i know how frustrating it can be, especially with all the cost involved.

After a couple of bad shots In a row from my sage, on the first night I owned it I imagined a pile of £1500 in £20 notes sat on my countertop. It doesn't come down to money problems or anything of the sort though, I earn multiples of the average uk salary, it's something deeper than that.

its very hard to justify the spend if things don't go as expected when you were pressing 'checkout' on all these online coffee shops, especially in this world of instant gratification where we expect everything perfect immediately!

if your situation permits, stick at it and try as many beans as possible


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Tigermad said:


> Maybe the hasbean one isn't ready yet, it was roasted Monday.


This may well not be helping as most beans benefit / calm down after a few more days rest than you may be giving them at the moment.

You may well like some of the darker beans from Coffee compass (allow them a bit of rest though) look for chocolate in the tasting notes. Brazilian bourbon or sweet bourbon blend from coffeecompass are smooth chocolatey bean that may be easier for you to dial in and get something out that is closer to your previous choice of beans. You could also as suggested go back to what you know and then come back slowly down the taste spectrum to lighter more fruity acidic beans ( huge generalisations and not everyone likes a fruit hit in their coffee)

Best of luck, don't give up. Get some one on one training, some decent rested beans and then take it from there.

John


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Haven't tried Waitrose espresso beans but have tried Lavazza (pre-ground) and from your mention of liking Cafe Nero, my guess is that neither of those will taste similar or the same. So it's kind of like how many more stabs in the dark do you wish to take?

Considering your current frustrations, if I were in your shoes, I'd even consider travelling a few miles to get to a specialty coffee shop with a half decent reputation and spend some time trying a range of espressos and maybe even have a chat to the barista.

I'm sure you'll come away happier than you are feeling at present.

P.S. not so long ago another member ( mrsimba ) said something similar to you...throwing in the towel, only to then plump for some of the best kit available in the form of a Londinium L1-P and a Compaq R120. Will you be following suit?


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

This looks a good place. 20 miles away. http://gyre-gimble.co.uk/


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

More Kit is not the answer here


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> More Kit is not the answer here


It certainly isn't. I am half regretting buying it now as it is.


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

If you have the time, visit Rave coffee. When I first started out, I used Rave's Signature blend. It's very forgiving and a medium/dark roast.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Fred and Ginger on Kings Langley High Street is possibly just as close (circa 18 miles according to google maps) and has a good reputation from my limited reading. Glenn (site owner) speaks highly of them. You can't get many higher recommendations than that for somewhere local-ish.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> It certainly isn't. I am half regretting buying it now as it is.


Preserve - a barista wasn't built in a day

Espresso is hard


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Fred and Ginger on Kings Langley High Street is possibly just as close (circa 18 miles according to google maps) and has a good reputation from my limited reading. Glenn (site owner) speaks highly of them. You can't get many higher recommendations than that for somewhere local-ish.


Thanks looks good


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Persevere, don't you mean boots? Tigermad doesn't quite need preserving just yet!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

42 replies within one hour of posting this thread should be enough to convince you that it's too early to throw the towel in just yet.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Seriously, what is your water source? Tap or bottled and what type of bottle?

All shots being sour could be water based problems.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Just found a movie called caffeinated. Will watch it tomorrow to renew my faith


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

forzajuve said:


> Seriously, what is your water source? Tap or bottled and what type of bottle?
> 
> All shots being sour could be water based problems.


It's an inline filter on my tap. Similar to a brita p1000


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I take it you have hard water down there then? Reason I ask is if your water is very soft, like up here in Manchester, you will get sour results. You need it harder to extract more.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

forzajuve said:


> I take it you have hard water down there then? Reason I ask is if your water is very soft, like up here in Manchester, you will get sour results. You need it harder to extract more.


Not sure. Just don't like the taste without the filter on. Could this be my problem? Shall I try a few shots with unfiltered water?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

People made acceptable coffee before maxwells water didn't they


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

forzajuve said:


> I take it you have hard water down there then? Reason I ask is if your water is very soft, like up here in Manchester, you will get sour results. You need it harder to extract more.


I don't get sour shots using Scottish tap water


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## DripDrop (Sep 11, 2015)

I'm fairly late to this party, just wanted to +1 for Union's Revelation blend. It's been by far the 'easiest' coffee for me to get right. I pull it quite a bit slower than 'normal' but the taste buds don't lie.

Also: Try going to as many independent coffee places as you can get to, try their double shot and see what it's like. If you like it, find out what the beans are. That's how I discovered Revelation as well as the decaf that I grudgingly use when I want to sleep in the next 48 hours. In fact that's how I first got into espresso because before that I didn't even know what that dark syrupy goodness could be like.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Shall I try a few shots with unfiltered water?


No, try some beans you stand a chance of liking


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> Good luck tiger
> 
> i know how frustrating it can be, especially with all the cost involved.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I seem to be spending loads of money and washing it didn't the sink at the moment. I will persevere and try coffee shops instead of ordering stuff blind.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

A cheap, thing to try would be bottled water. Either Volvic or a mix of Volvic and Waitrose Essential (half, half split as a starting point). That could potentially eliminate one factor of whether your inline filter is not to your taste buds liking?


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> A cheap, thing to try would be bottled water. Either Volvic or a mix of Volvic and Waitrose Essential (half, half split as a starting point). That could potentially eliminate one factor of whether your inline filter is not to your taste buds liking?


I used the same water in my bean to cup machine though. Will try it though.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Think it may have been suggested earlier on in this thread but in case it wasn't...seen as you have stated that you like the taste of coffee from Cafe Nero, have you not purchased a bag of their beans and tried making espresso with them at home yourself? That would deffo be something I'd have tried after a number of beans from elsewhere that you clearly have not liked at all.

My guess would be that they wouldn't be expensive neither and most towns have one not too far away.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Absolutely been where you are right now! frustrated & disappointed to the point of just chucking it all in - espresso based anyway!

here was my 'story' which reads almost exactly the same as yours does now!

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?24962-Finished-with-home-espresso!

or MrO's before me,

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22483-Selling-up-(-or-buying-more-stuff-)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22483-Selling-up-(-or-buying-more-stuff-)

Reading either of those threads should make you feel that your not the first & certainly won't be the last to hit a bump in the road!

It was reading this from Steve7 in MrO's thread that really rang true with me,



Steve7 said:


> Did the same and never regretted it.
> 
> Now I drink drop and clever, and syphon for a treat. Giving up home espresso isn't giving up coffee....
> 
> ...


So I changed everything my espresso machine & grinder went to fund a new grinder for brewed & that got me excited & got my mojo back and before you know it your looking at espresso again but this time with a re-newed passion & enthusiasm!

So get a french press / aero press, try a different method, or just go to a great indi for a few weeks and let them make it for you! and within a few weeks sure you'll be thinking 'lets give it another shot'!

I really hope you do!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Glad you dropped by mrsimba . Words of wisdom or an excuse to go all out and buy the best kit out there?! Just kidding! Honest!


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Think it may have been suggested earlier on in this thread but in case it wasn't...seen as you have stated that you like the taste of coffee from Cafe Nero, have you not purchased a bag of their beans and tried making espresso with them at home yourself? That would deffo be something I'd have tried after a number of beans from elsewhere that you clearly have not liked at all.
> 
> My guess would be that they wouldn't be expensive neither and most towns have one not too far away.


Do they sell their beans in store?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Pretty sure they do. Just like $tarbucks and Co$ta.

If not they do online

Notice the key word...'robusta'!


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## DripDrop (Sep 11, 2015)

£3.25 for 250g?

It's been a long time since I've been able to get beans so cheap


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I hope you manage to get your mojo on


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Stick with it , I'm sure you'll soon find the coffee you're looking for


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Darker roast with a hint of robusta?

Sounds like you'd like some of my favourite beans!!!

https://www.realcoffee.co.uk/shop/espresso-coffee/Italian/


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

mrsimba said:


> Darker roast with a hint of robusta?
> 
> Sounds like you'd like some of my favourite beans!!!
> 
> https://www.realcoffee.co.uk/shop/espresso-coffee/Italian/


That poor R120


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> That poor R120


The R120's a beast! it eats dark roasts for breakfast!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

mrsimba said:


> The R120's a beast! it eats dark roasts for breakfast!


All 1.25kg of them in 40 secs! BOOM!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have read this thread from start to finish. I would suggest using a roaster who has a reputation for knowing what they are doing, consistently with darker roasted beans. Coffee Compass is one such firm. Ring and ask for Richard, tell him your problem and exactly what taste you are after. Ask him what temp toast the machine to. I guarantee you, that you will get a decent bean this way. If your shots are still crap, then it is down to you and your technique.....sorry if that sounds harsh but whilst I suspect the beans may not be helping, II suspect the real problems lie elsewhere. I would have thought 97 was a high temp for most beans as well


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

echo what dave above has said, if your preference is for the darker stuff, Richard at coffee compass will be right up your street, the has bean beans you have are most certainly not!


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

DoubleShot said:


> All 1.25kg of them in 40 secs! BOOM!


[email protected] had an R120 also from Foundry yesterday through CoffeeChap also & chatting to him this evening he's been playing with it for espresso today & it was single dosing 20g's of beans through in 1 second!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

@dfk41

A compelling a read as that latest Jack Reacher novel?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

#post 19


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Cheers guys. I guess a call is on the cards to compass. Anyone want to buy some hasbeans 250g bourbon roasted Monday?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Tigermad said:


> Cheers guys. I guess a call is on the cards to compass. Anyone want to buy some hasbeans 250g bourbon roasted Monday?


I'll swap for a kg of rave signature that you'd have to get straight on with? I got them with the Sage DB from fevmeister but worried I won't get to them in time. So you could be trying with them straightway and they're probably slightly closer to your taste...


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

jlarkin said:


> I'll swap for a kg of rave signature that you'd have to get straight on with? I got them with the Sage DB from fevmeister but worried I won't get to them in time. So you could be trying with them straightway and they're probably slightly closer to your taste...


Think I want to try some coffee in the high Street first. When was it roasted?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Tigermad said:


> Foundry rocko mountain, hasbean longberry limoncillo, bella barista milk buster and gaslight. We used to have a Jura bean to cup and only ever used lavazza and illy etc. Are our taste buds just never going to get used to proper coffee?


Have you been to a good cafe serving properly prepared and extracted coffee?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Think I want to try some coffee in the high Street first. When was it roasted?


Just checked my emails for you, it was roasted three weeks ago


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tigermad said:


> Foundry rocko mountain, hasbean longberry limoncillo, bella barista milk buster and gaslight. We used to have a Jura bean to cup and only ever used lavazza and illy etc. Are our taste buds just never going to get used to proper coffee?


Proper coffee isn't sour, Illy sell single origin beans, they're different to the blends, but still recognisably "coffee".

Proper coffee isn't necessarily something that you wouldn't recognise as coffee, unless you make it that way.

As others have said, stick to the bean you are getting best results with at the minute, but bear in mind you'll still need to dial in, so still focus on weights & ratios. What I notice about the thread so far is that you don't seem to have mentioned a single recipe, or square one. You did say earlier that you get the ratios "spot on", but if the coffee isn't tasting good, the ratio, or the grind for that ratio, is not spot on.

Keep track of weights & ratio for the next shot you make, record the shot time & assess the taste (just a simple like a lot/like a little/neither like or dislike/dislike a little/dislike a lot...maybe sweet, sour too?).


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

Tigermad said:


> Cheers guys. I guess a call is on the cards to compass. Anyone want to buy some hasbeans 250g bourbon roasted Monday?


 @Tigermad i'll buy the HB Bourbon off you. I can collect them so no worries re postage. Also, @jlarkin offer of the kg Rave Signature is not a bad idea.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

doolallysquiff said:


> @Tigermad i'll buy the HB Bourbon off you. I can collect them so no worries reostage. Also, @jlarkin offer of the kg Rave Signature is not a bad idea.


Cheers I work in MK during the week or I will be in MK tomorrow if it helps you out? Where abouts are you?


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> Proper coffee isn't sour, Illy sell single origin beans, they're different to the blends, but still recognisably "coffee".
> 
> Proper coffee isn't necessarily something that you wouldn't recognise as coffee, unless you make it that way.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your help. I always start out with 18g of coffee in my naked portafilter with 18g VST basket. I have got my mignon grinder set about 2 notches from finest setting (where blades touch). This gives me approx 36g output in around 25 seconds. Then if i am not keen on it I then pull a lightly longer shot with the same grind at around 30-35 seconds and the output is 40-50g, this is sometimes a bit better. I have tried this on all the beans. Last night I went ridiculous and changed the grind a lot courser and although the coffee was too weak and came out way to fast I actually preferred the taste (surely this should be more sour though). I am finding it hard to get a more bitter output and I can't really go any finer.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Tigermad said:


> Foundry rocko mountain, hasbean longberry limoncillo, bella barista milk buster and gaslight. We used to have a Jura bean to cup and only ever used lavazza and illy etc. Are our taste buds just never going to get used to proper coffee?





Tigermad said:


> Where do i get those? I was thinking of just trying my usual lavazza and if I can't get that to a taste I like I'm screwed. Just so I can see if it is something I'm doing wrong. Can't keep spending money on beans I may not have a taste for.


If i was you I would get some LaVazza beans and try those, if you have liked them in the past you have a benchmark taste to aim for.

Not all LaVazza coffee is the same though, they do a variety of different beans and whilst I haven't tried them all I have tried most of them.

Judging by the Dolce Scuro I would recommended you tried the LaVazza Crema e Gusto http://www.lavazza.co.uk/uk/at-home/blends/crema-e-gusto.html

You may also like the Qualita Rossa or the Crema e Aroma (my personal favorite) .


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> If i was you I would get some LaVazza beans and try those, if you have liked them in the past you have a benchmark taste to aim for.
> 
> Not all LaVazza coffee is the same though, they do a variety of different beans and whilst I haven't tried them all I have tried most of them.
> 
> ...


dont buy lavazza, buy a few coffee compass blends as has been suggested by many


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tigermad said:


> Thanks for your help. I always start out with 18g of coffee in my naked portafilter with 18g VST basket. I have got my mignon grinder set about 2 notches from finest setting (where blades touch). This gives me approx 36g output in around 25 seconds. Then if i am not keen on it I then pull a lightly longer shot with the same grind at around 30-35 seconds and the output is 40-50g, this is sometimes a bit better. I have tried this on all the beans. Last night I went ridiculous and changed the grind a lot courser and although the coffee was too weak and came out way to fast I actually preferred the taste (surely this should be more sour though). I am finding it hard to get a more bitter output and I can't really go any finer.


Thanks, don't aim for 25 seconds. Try the fine setting at a bit longer than 50g.

If you grind way too coarse the coffee will be weak, as you notice, but you may be at a less sour point. Under-extraction isn't always sour, it tends to be sourest only a little under a nominal extraction, then if you go a bit lower (coarser) it can be less sour...after a point it stops tasting like coffee altogether.

I don't know how much leeway your "2 notches" gives you, are you saying any significant adjustment causes burr rub? Sounds like you do generally need to go finer, or try dropping dose by a g or so.


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Just moving it a couple of mm will make them touch. Dosing lower will be similar to adjusting finer? For some reason I thought the less coffee in the portafilter the quicker it comes out. By the way I tried to use the standard single portafilter last night so I didn't keep wasting double shots but the 7g of coffee only half filled it! It was deffo the right basket.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> dont buy lavazza, buy a few coffee compass blends as has been suggested by many


dont buy the coffee compass blends , buy LaVazza, you have a good chance of enjoying it


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

By the way none of my shots taste like coffee in any way. They taste like I am drinking a nasty chemical.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Tigermad said:


> By the way none of my shots taste like coffee in any way. They taste like I am drinking a nasty chemical.


Treat yourself to a bag of the LaVazza Crema e Gusto beans. http://www.lavazza.co.uk/uk/at-home/...a-e-gusto.html


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Tigermad said:


> By the way none of my shots taste like coffee in any way. They taste like I am drinking a nasty chemical.


as a test ..... go pull a shot of water .. just water and try that ... if that tastes of chemical, then something massive is a foot !!!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Tigermad said:


> By the way none of my shots taste like coffee in any way. They taste like I am drinking a nasty chemical.


I assume it's not this but just in case, could be worth pulling some water through the group could be with the PF in place but no coffee in it, just in case their is any definite impact on taste coming from the machine itself?


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Are you still trying with the Limoncillo?


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Stop pissing about with singles. That's just another variable.


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

Tigermad said:


> Cheers I work in MK during the week or I will be in MK tomorrow if it helps you out? Where abouts are you?


I'm in Pitstone. Only a stones throw away. If you want, I can try to help you out, though I'm not as qualified as others on the forum. I'm guessing it's the beans that are not to your taste. Probbaly should be going darker.


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Hi M,

I enjoyed reading your early posts when you were eagerly anticipating getting your new setup together. Not so your more recent posts... it really is a great shame that you are struggling to enjoy using it.

*Don't give up !! *

I think this thread has determined that your choice of beans, so far, has perhaps not helped but I do wonder if you are drowning in a sea of well intentioned theory and advice?

Maybe step back, take a deep breath, have a nice cup of *tea* and try and start over, tomorrow, without putting yourself under any pressure. Keep it all simple.

I will be more than happy to post you some dark roasted Coffee Compass beans, today.

Mahogany Roast Jampit Hit and some Hill & Valley

Both are ready to use.

Let me know if you would like them. My treat.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tigermad said:


> By the way none of my shots taste like coffee in any way. They taste like I am drinking a nasty chemical.


This points to it not being the bean per se, but something in the brewing. If the roasters you tried all made coffee that tastes like a nasty chemical, then they would have gone out of business.

VST baskets are tolerant to +/-1g of coffee, some people use a little less. Dropping the dose (within tolerance, don't go mad) may help lift extraction.

Don't worry about "speed", focus on the ratio. If you are as fine as you can go, you're most logical way of steering the flavour is by adjusting the brew ratio.


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Wando64 said:


> Are you still trying with the Limoncillo?


I have a few cups left


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Yes, went to a few last week. They were nice, should have asked what beans they used. Silly me


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Fevmeister said:


> Just checked my emails for you, it was roasted three weeks ago


Thanks but probably not worth trying a whole kg of it at the moment.


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Hi M,
> 
> I enjoyed reading your early posts when you were eagerly anticipating getting your new setup together. Not so your more recent posts... it really is a great shame that you are struggling to enjoy using it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the offer would love to give them a try  Shall I PM my address?


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

doolallysquiff said:


> I'm in Pitstone. Only a stones throw away. If you want, I can try to help you out, though I'm not as qualified as others on the forum. I'm guessing it's the beans that are not to your taste. Probbaly should be going darker.


That would be great, are you free at all late Saturday or any time Sunday?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

The future is suddenly looking brighter!


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Tigermad said:


> Thanks for the offer would love to give them a try  Shall I PM my address?


I have the address that I used when I sent the weighing plate.

Is that ok ?


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> I have the address that I used when I sent the weighing plate.
> 
> Is that ok ?


Oh yes. Forgot about that? Yes please that works be great


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Tigermad said:


> I have a few cups left


It is pretty obvious you don't like it.

I remember going crazy over a particular coffee (I shall not mention the roaster), and no matter what I did I could not make it work for me.

In the end it dawned on me that I just didn't like THAT coffee, roasted in THAT way.

Since then I have learned to mostly stick to what I like, and if I decide to experiment I accept that I might not like the results.

Reading about the Limoncillo, I see that its flavour "...turns into the juiciness of green apple acidity"

Is that how you want your coffee to taste?

If the answer is "no", I'd suggest you move on and read the tasting notes more carefully for your next choice of beans.


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## doolallysquiff (Jul 26, 2014)

Tigermad said:


> Oh yes. Forgot about that? Yes please that works be great


I can do Sunday if that works fo you.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

doolallysquiff said:


> I can do Sunday if that works fo you.


Sounds brill. Will pm you details later on. Thanks


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> I have the address that I used when I sent the weighing plate.
> 
> Is that ok ?


By the way it's a work address so will we get them early next week? No one there tomorrow.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Let us know how you got on.

Nice one Doolallysquiff.

Just for the record I hated the first couple of bags from Hasbean when I first started out on this coffee obsession. I also got through over 2 kilo's of beans without pulling a decent shot too.

3 years on and I've a Hasbeans fortnightly subscription.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Wando64 said:


> It is pretty obvious you don't like it.
> 
> I remember going crazy over a particular coffee (I shall not mention the roaster), and no matter what I did I could not make it work for me.
> 
> ...


Green apple acidity is perhaps not everyone's preference, but even green apples tend not to taste like "a nasty chemical". Malic acid turns up pretty often in coffee.

Fine tuning preference is one thing, here we seem to be more dealing with a go/no go malfunction.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Wando64 said:


> It is pretty obvious you don't like it.
> 
> I remember going crazy over a particular coffee (I shall not mention the roaster), and no matter what I did I could not make it work for me.
> 
> ...


Hi, not sure you are looking at the right coffee. No mention of apples. The one i have says: In the cup a Mars a day keeps the doctor away! This really is a Mars bar in a cup: oodles of thick and sweet caramel accompanied by deliciously creamy milk chocolate.

Clean Cup: (1-8): 8

Sweetness: (1-8): 7

Acidity: (1-8): 7

Mouthfeel: (1-8): 7

Flavour: (1-8): 7

Aftertaste: (1-8): 7

Balance: (1-8): 8

Overall: (1-8): 7

Correction: (+36): +36

Total: (max 100): 94

Roasting Information

Medium to medium dark roast. My preference is just into second crack, first few pops then drop.

"Quick Look" Guide

Mars Bar, thick, sweet, caramel, creamy, milk chocolate.

Good filter?

Yes

Good espresso?

Yes


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Beans are in the post.

Good luck with Squiffy on Sunday.

Keep us posted.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Snakehips said:


> Beans are in the post.
> 
> Good luck with Squiffy on Sunday.
> 
> Keep us posted.


Thanks!


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

OK so gave the reminder of the limoncillo another crack. I know I won't like it but thought I would practice. Dosed at 17g ran at 35 seconds for 58g out and I can actually drink it. Phew thought I would never be saying that. Will try some cafe Nero or lavazza tomorrow until the beans from squiffy arrive. 1 quick question though. The puck stuck to my ims shower screen. Is it because I did a long extraction? I did leave the portafilter in for a few minutes whilst I tasted the coffee? Did this cause it?

Edit, just googled stuck puck and it seems to be because I have a lower dose in the basket than normal.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You may be too fine, or your tamp is disturbing the edges of the puck/not sealing adequately.

Nothing to do with length of shot, the puck was likely loose in the basket due to channelling around the edges (may be elevant to your issues), then when the excess water was sucked off the top of the puck it lifted it up out of the basket.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> You may be too fine, or your tamp is disturbing the edges of the puck/not sealing adequately.
> 
> Nothing to do with length of shot, the puck was likely loose in the basket due to channelling around the edges (may be elevant to your issues), then when the excess water was sucked off the top of the puck it lifted it up out of the basket.


Thanks but there didn't seem to be any channelling. I use a naked portafilter and it looked fine.

The only thing i have changed is a lower dose in the basket and left the portafilter in for 5 minutes after brewing and it didn't stick any of the 50 times I used 18g.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tigermad said:


> Thanks but there didn't seem to be any channelling. I use a naked portafilter and it looked fine.


What separated the puck from the basket if it wasn't water zipping down & around the edges?

I appreciate you didn't see anything that made you think channelling was obviously occurring, but let's weigh up what's going on, you're as fine as you can go, your shots are sour unless pulled long-ish (no problem with that in itself, but you should be getting a decent extraction at 3:1 or less) & your pucks are sticking to the shower screen. I think it's a bit soon to eliminate possible problems?


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> What separated the puck from the basket if it wasn't water zipping down & around the edges?
> 
> I appreciate you didn't see anything that made you think channelling was obviously occurring, but let's weigh up what's going on, you're as fine as you can go, your shots are sour unless pulled long-ish (no problem with that in itself, but you should be getting a decent extraction at 3:1 or less) & your pucks are sticking to the shower screen. I think it's a bit soon to eliminate possible problems?


Thanks. Maybe I am tamping too hard for e amount of coffee. Can that cause it? Leaving a bigger gap for the water on top?


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> OK so gave the reminder of the limoncillo another crack. I know I won't like it but thought I would practice. Dosed at 17g ran at 35 seconds for 58g out and I can actually drink it. Phew thought I would never be saying that. Will try some cafe Nero or lavazza tomorrow until the beans from squiffy arrive. 1 quick question though. The puck stuck to my ims shower screen. Is it because I did a long extraction? I did leave the portafilter in for a few minutes whilst I tasted the coffee? Did this cause it?
> 
> Edit, just googled stuck puck and it seems to be because I have a lower dose in the basket than normal.


Beans from snakehips you mean!


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Oops silly me. To many posts! Sorry snakehips.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Oops silly me. To many posts! Sorry snakehips.


Good old snakehips


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tigermad said:


> Thanks. Maybe I am tamping too hard for e amount of coffee. Can that cause it? Leaving a bigger gap for the water on top?


If the grind is too fine the water might be finding the path of least resistance around the edge of the puck, sure see if tamping lighter helps, a good fit & no disturbance of the puck after tamp.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Might want to leave the issue of puck sticking alone until you sorted the other issues as could easily spiral into insanity with all the variables going on at the moment (probably because you left the portafilter in place for 5 minutes woud be my 90% guess). Keep smiling 

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

I really don't want to add this into the mix, but... what tamper you using?

John


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

johnealey said:


> I really don't want to add this into the mix, but... what tamper you using?
> 
> John


Torr goldfinger 58.4


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Have you tried any other methods, Moka pot for example? Just a thought as there aren't many variables with them, just have to watch it doesn't get too hot. See why the flavours are like with one of those for comparison?


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Rhys said:


> Have you tried any other methods, Moka pot for example? Just a thought as there aren't many variables with them, just have to watch it doesn't get too hot. See why the flavours are like with one of those for comparison?


Yep tried the moka but not with the limoncillo. A bit watery compared to the machine. I am confident everything is coming together now. The bean is just not my cup of tea.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Tigermad said:


> Torr goldfinger 58.4


ok, lets rule that as unlikely to be causing the problem at this stage. Result! ( small wins, might help to keep you positive)

John


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

When I was using the dolce I enjoyed every shot I made. Including Americanos. I guess this weekend will tell me more when I try robusta beans again.


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## Syenitic (Dec 1, 2013)

Me personally; I am waiting for a feng shui consultant to jump in on this one.

(no offence anyone...I know all advice was well intended. The OP has to find their own feet, so for me the suggestion of training or offers of one to one guidance is solid and good and perhaps better than water/bean/roaster recommendations. That way they will find where to look in terms of the bean after they can explain what is not right from the last shot)


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

Tigermad said:


> Hi, not sure you are looking at the right coffee. No mention of apples. The one i have says: In the cup a Mars a day keeps the doctor away! This really is a Mars bar in a cup: oodles of thick and sweet caramel accompanied by deliciously creamy milk chocolate.
> 
> Clean Cup: (1-8): 8
> 
> ...


I am looking at this:

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/nicaragua-limoncillo-washed-caturra

What are you looking at?

But frankly, regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it.

My suggestion is to try a different coffee before you blame everything else.

In any case I hope you find a way to enjoy good coffee whichever way you go about it.


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Wando64 said:


> I am looking at this:
> 
> http://www.hasbean.co.uk/products/nicaragua-limoncillo-washed-caturra
> 
> ...


The one I have is NICARAGUA FINCA LIMONCILLO PULPED NATURAL LONGBERRY. Sorry about size of text. Stupid copy and paste. I'm sure I will find some beans I like very soon


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## Tewdric (Apr 20, 2014)

That should be a good starter for 10. Finca Limoncello is the name of the farm - the cherry species is Longberry and pulped natural is the process. I've not tried it but currently have Finca Limoncello Yellow Pacamara at work which I brew in an Aeropress. Its magnificent quality but I am no where near brave enough to make espresso from it. The Longberry looks like a darker roast and one which looks very tempting to try...


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Went to fred and gingers today. What a fantastic place! Well I learned something using their beans. I am not pulling to bad a shot after all. Their espresso had a similar taste to my efforts but a little bit more will rounded. Also had a cappuccino. Loved the acme cups. The food looked amazing too. OK enough gushing about them and back to my efforts. What I have noticed is that my coffee comes out rather hot to the touch. Im using little glass espresso glasses which obviously heat up a lot. Going to try some of my other cups instead.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

So it wasn't too bad a suggestion, Fred and Gingers? 

Glad you enjoyed yourself. I'll manage to pop in there at some point when they're open, it's always midnight or later when I pass by.

Good idea, switching to porcelain espresso cups rather than glass and also try to keep the temperature down, 97c is far too hot imo. Never heard anyone mention that being a winner. Usually if anything, people talk about lowering the temperature slightly from the usual 93c or 94c down to maybe 91c for lighter roasts.

Things are looking up and you still have doolallysquiff to pop round tomorrow!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Try not hearing the cup ( if you are pre warming a cup that is ) . As it cools little more flavour .


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## salty dog (Jun 6, 2015)

Hi there,

If this barista thing was easy, there wouldn't be forums like this all over the net. I wouldn't say that I am an expert in any way, but I do know that these things do take time. I would also say that although most of the coffee I brew is quite acceptable it is only occasionally that I get one that is 'WOW!' Maybe you are setting too high an initial standard.

Perhaps you may need to consider doing two completely the opposite things - 1) Follow the previous advice and get specialist training, or 2) Leave the coffee thing for a while then go back to it.

I am sure that in the end you will produce that consistent cup of coffee. Good luck!


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Try not hearing the cup ( if you are pre warming a cup that is ) . As it cools little more flavour .


The glass is only on the cup warmer. It's not that warm. It's the shot after I have pulled it that's red hot. I have lowered the temp to 95 now but still tastes too hot. Its weird


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Take it down again try 93- i rarely go as high as 95 . Sometimes a lower temp can help reduce the perception of acidity ( copyright @garydyke1 )


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> So it wasn't too bad a suggestion, Fred and Gingers?
> 
> Glad you enjoyed yourself. I'll manage to pop in there at some point when they're open, it's always midnight or later when I pass by.
> 
> ...


Yes thanks for the heads up. There was a little farmers market in the high Street too. I like supporting local producers.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> ( copyright @garydyke1 )


Scott Rao may have something to say about that ;-)


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> So it wasn't too bad a suggestion, Fred and Gingers?
> 
> Glad you enjoyed yourself. I'll manage to pop in there at some point when they're open, it's always midnight or later when I pass by.
> 
> ...


I was under the impression higher temps were necessary for light roasts to extract properly. Then again I also thought lower temperatures extracted acidity with less sugar and bitter compounds and so was recommended for dark roasts.

I noticed recently that dropping the temp by 2 degrees on a dark roast without changing anything else completely messed up the perfect pour and it came out thin with channeling. I thought this might be because it wasn't extracting enough oil and sugar from the coffee and was getting pushed through easily because it didn't gain as much density on contact with the grinds. The coffee was still drinkable but more acidic and less sweet with crappy body. Upping the temp by a degree got the pour back on track, so I thought it was interesting that such a small adjustment could have such a large effect. I was having problems with light roasts, with water not 'gushing' but trickling in a thin stream out of the basket and decided after the above discovery to up the temp to 96c to see if it had the same effect. I haven't got a light roast I have problems with at the moment though (pulling at 95c which is 1c higher than previously though so it could be that).

One thing I will add to this is that a lot of people confuse acidity/sourness for bitterness. I'm not sure why but it's common. You could be over extracting if your temps are too hot.


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Rob1 said:


> I was under the impression higher temps were necessary for light roasts to extract properly. Then again I also thought lower temperatures extracted acidity with less sugar and bitter compounds and so was recommended for dark roasts.
> 
> I noticed recently that dropping the temp by 2 degrees on a dark roast without changing anything else completely messed up the perfect pour and it came out thin with channeling. I thought this might be because it wasn't extracting enough oil and sugar from the coffee and was getting pushed through easily because it didn't gain as much density on contact with the grinds. The coffee was still drinkable but more acidic and less sweet with crappy body. Upping the temp by a degree got the pour back on track, so I thought it was interesting that such a small adjustment could have such a large effect. I was having problems with light roasts, with water not 'gushing' but trickling in a thin stream out of the basket and decided after the above discovery to up the temp to 96c to see if it had the same effect. I haven't got a light roast I have problems with at the moment though (pulling at 95c which is 1c higher than previously though so it could be that).
> 
> One thing I will add to this is that a lot of people confuse acidity/sourness for bitterness. I'm not sure why but it's common. You could be over extracting if your temps are too hot.


I was extracting longer for the limoncillo so maybe that made it hotter. I am out of luck this weekend. My local roaster have only roasted the beans today that I prefer so I have none to use until snakehips beans arrive. Looks like it will have to be cafe Nero ones until then :-(


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Bogotá sell rave Suarez but it was roasted on 1st Oct. Will this be any good?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rob1 said:


> I was under the impression higher temps were necessary for light roasts to extract properly. Then again I also thought lower temperatures extracted acidity with less sugar and bitter compounds and so was recommended for dark roasts.
> 
> I noticed recently that dropping the temp by 2 degrees on a dark roast without changing anything else completely messed up the perfect pour and it came out thin with channeling. I thought this might be because it wasn't extracting enough oil and sugar from the coffee and was getting pushed through easily because it didn't gain as much density on contact with the grinds. The coffee was still drinkable but more acidic and less sweet with crappy body. Upping the temp by a degree got the pour back on track, so I thought it was interesting that such a small adjustment could have such a large effect. I was having problems with light roasts, with water not 'gushing' but trickling in a thin stream out of the basket and decided after the above discovery to up the temp to 96c to see if it had the same effect. I haven't got a light roast I have problems with at the moment though (pulling at 95c which is 1c higher than previously though so it could be that).
> 
> One thing I will add to this is that a lot of people confuse acidity/sourness for bitterness. I'm not sure why but it's common. You could be over extracting if your temps are too hot.


Higher temp can help increase extrAction yields . Thery aren't "necessary " tondo this though . Other variables ( grind and water through ) can do this too .

Lower temps on the cup - can

Help decrease perceived acidity


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Tigermad said:


> Bogotá sell rave Suarez but it was roasted on 1st Oct. Will this be any good?


Raves roasts tend to be best left for a couple of weeks in my experience. Should be perfect


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Popped into cafe Nero after shopping for 2 double spros. I know the kiss of death. Guess what I thought it was bad compared to my shots. Too bitter and burnt tasting. So I have just used up the last of my limoncillo and I have gotten used to the taste now. Me and hubby have just drunk both and thought they were good. Temperature 93, 18g 36 out 33 seconds


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Glad to hear you're on the road to coffee Nirvana! Those last numbers look a lot more likely to achieve that. I hope when you get some more likely beans you will be pleasantly surprised!


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

How did the session go yesterday, anything in your routine that needed fine-tuning?


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> How did the session go yesterday, anything in your routine that needed fine-tuning?


I asked squiffy not to come in the end. I had no beans so had to use the hasbeans red bourbon. Didn't want to waste his time. Nearly all gone now. Prefer them to the limoncillo.


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Your espresso has improved in taste though, right?


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

DoubleShot said:


> Your espresso has improved in taste though, right?


Yes but I think it was just or taste buds are not to keen on brighter coffees. I think my shots were near enough shot on anyway


----------



## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Panic over, as the saying goes!


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tigermad said:


> Yes but I think it was just or taste buds are not to keen on brighter coffees. I think my shots were near enough shot on anyway


It depends on what you mean by brighter coffees: juicy, sweet, ripe fruit acidity, or sharp & tart? It would still be a good idea to get some training as the mechanism for dialling in beans doesn't change greatly, just the start & finish points.

If your shots were spot on, I doubt any of them would have tasted like nasty chemicals.


----------



## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Whats your tamp routine? On certain baskets its quite easy to get side chanelling if you dont do a nutating motion with the tamper before pulling a shot. Side chanelling starts around the perimeter of the basket and leads to severely underextracted shots. The difference between this and a normal well extracted shot is like day and night.

Might be smth to keep in mind?

T.


----------



## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

dsc said:


> Whats your tamp routine? On certain baskets its quite easy to get side chanelling if you dont do a nutating motion with the tamper before pulling a shot. Side chanelling starts around the perimeter of the basket and leads to severely underextracted shots. The difference between this and a normal well extracted shot is like day and night.
> 
> Might be smth to keep in mind?
> 
> T.


Thanks for the advice  I don't appear to get any channeling. I have naked portafilter and I inspect the puck after. Neither of them show any signs of channeling at all.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

MWJB said:


> It depends on what you mean by brighter coffees: juicy, sweet, ripe fruit acidity, or sharp & tart? It would still be a good idea to get some training as the mechanism for dialling in beans doesn't change greatly, just the start & finish points.
> 
> If your shots were spot on, I doubt any of them would have tasted like nasty chemicals.


Ok. Maybe I was way off when I said nasty chemicals. The thing is i never really new what real coffee tastes like because my buds have been a accustomed to bitter dark coffees. Every single shot I pull now using the red bourbon we are drinking so I must be doing something right.

What I could do with is some kind of tasting session somewhere to see the differences between the coffee, pulled by an expert. I am visiting different coffee houses now and I hope to get an idea of various coffee flavours etc. I see what you mean about start and finish points though. One will be more bitter the other more sour.


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