# What Makes The EK43 Different?



## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

> You can go 1:3 with an Ek no worries


Ah useful to know... Why is that? What makes the EK grind differently? Would U also be happy with that volume in 22 seconds?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nod said:


> Ah useful to know... Why is that? What makes the EK grind differently? Would U also be happy with that volume in 22 seconds?


Personal taste no.. But I know people that do like shots that quick .

You can go 1:3 with any grinder .. It's the standard Italian single 7g>21g .

Helps if the grind is even to avoid nastiness though ( unless your adding sugar







)


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks Boots.. Useful to know... I am a traditional 1:1.6 man and find it hard to shift....


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

From what I've tasted of EK shots, the longer ones bring out the best of the grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

1:2.5 is my go to


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

\ said:


> From what I've tasted of EK shots' date=' the longer ones bring out the best of the grinder.[/quote']
> 
> What about the EK makes it different?. Should I be thinking of my m3 as being EK like as it produces v v consistent and high quality grinds?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nod said:


> What about the EK makes it different?. Should I be thinking of my m3 as being EK like as it produces v v consistent and high quality grinds?


Im not sure the stock versalab has the same grind profile as an EK, but am guessing, i have nothing to back that up in terms of science though ... the most obvious difference between the two is burr size.. perhaps @Terranova knows


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Nod said:


> What about the EK makes it different?. Should I be thinking of my m3 as being EK like as it produces v v consistent and high quality grinds?


I'm not sure but it just works better that way, from my limited experience of having shot from them.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

If anyone would know @Terranova would....


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## Terranova (Feb 15, 2014)

The grind profile is different, here an SEM implemented into the Perger (MK) SEM.

Ground with 430 RPM and a 68 DRM burr set. (Yellow line)

Run out was less than 0,03mm.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks Frank... Although the diagram has made my brain melt... This explain then why the EK is better at larger brew ratios...?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Because it has a blue line on the graph


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nod said:


> Thanks Frank... Although the diagram has made my brain melt... This explain then why the EK is better at larger brew ratios...?


The EK makes less boulders (blue line terminates farthest from the RH boundary of the chart), therefore the overall distribution is narrower. This means that it's target, good tasting, extraction yields (20-24%) can be higher than typical burr grinders (18-22%). To achieve higher extractions, you need to pass more water through the puck, hence longer brew ratios are typical.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

\ said:


> The EK makes less boulders (blue line terminates farthest from the RH boundary of the chart)' date=' therefore the overall distribution is narrower. This means that it's target, good tasting, extraction yields (20-24%) cab be higher than typical burr grinders (18-24%). To achieve higher extractions, you need to pass more water through the puck, hence longer brew ratios are typical.[/quote']
> 
> Pwn'ed... Thanks MWJB... Top explanation... Even I understand it now... Appreciate all the posts in this - thanks gents


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

All that graph says to me is that the EK was set finer than the other grinders, and the Robur coarser.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

GlennV said:


> All that graph says to me is that the EK was set finer than the other grinders, and the Robur coarser.


This is true, but in the context of the Perger's test, the K30, Anfim & Robur hit their subjective ceiling of good tasting extraction yield (these 3 and the EK were all at the same brew ratio) at these grind settings. Suggesting that, setting them finer would unbalance the shots further, or that this was as fine as they could go, at this ratio & still pull a "tasty" (by Perger's subjective assessment) shot & in practice, setting them finer still wouldn't give the same result as the EK.

This is what appears to make the EK different, the fact that it can grind finer & hit higher extractions without tasting over-extracted. This isn't unheard of with roller mills (Nespresso do it all the time), but it isn't typical of burr grinders.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

I presume you refer to https://baristahustle.com/the-ek43-part-two/? Note that the extraction yield calculations there contain significant errors, in a way that flatters the EK. Moreover, I've just looked it up to find the reference and see that the comments pointing this out have been removed!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

GlennV said:


> I presume you refer to https://baristahustle.com/the-ek43-part-two/? Note that the extraction yield calculations there contain significant errors, in a way that flatters the EK. Moreover, I've just looked it up to find the reference and see that the comments pointing this out have been removed!


The verbatim readings weren't published, nor the number of shots/averages, so how significant these errors are doesn't seem possible for you to know...but that apart, Perger isn't the only person suggesting higher, good tasting extraction yields for the EK43, this has been observed by lots of folk over the last 6-7 years, some hitting yields higher than Perger achieved here. I'm not sure how it "flatters" the EK, it may do something different, but "flatters" implies it is better, it's up to individuals whether they prefer a 18-20% shot from a Robur or a 21-23% shot from an EK. St Ali had both Robur & EK on the bar in Perger's recent Q&A video.

Though what any of this has to do with a Pergtamp is beyond me.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

MWJB said:


> Though what any of this has to do with a Pergtamp is beyond me.


Agreed, but it was you that brought the article up!

I meant significant as in large, not the statistical sense (the article doesn't claim there were any repeats). With the numbers given, the extraction yield for the EK, if calculated on the same basis as the Anfim, comes out at 21.5%, whereas it is given in the article as a little over 23%.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Similar for the Robur too though isn't it, also gains a % following your logic.

I was just explaining (as Nod had a query), hopefully objectively, the relevance of the distribution chart Frank posted.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

I am perfectly prepared to accept that the EK works best at lower pressures and longer ratios, producing sweet and delicious drinks from the right coffee with higher extraction yields than typically associated with espresso - and I would love to try one! (So much so that I am trying to buy one). I just don't think there's enough evidence yet to be able to relate this to particle distribution charts. In response to Nod's earlier question, I believe @EricC has a versalab and also says it behaves very differently to the EK which he also had for a while.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

If you're anywhere near me Glenn (cheltenham) you're welcome to come and have a play with my EK..


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks both.. I am finding this fascinating... I wonder though if a mod might kindly move to a new thread... EK - what makes it different? As I think this is an interesting discussion that warrants its own thread...


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Having owned both the ek and the vl in various guises, I can say they are completely different in the shot they both produce. The vl has great grind consistency ( when the runout is low) and produces s much more traditional type shot, whereas the ek is a different beast, suited to longer shots and procures a thinner, sweeter shot.


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## Nod (Sep 7, 2013)

I guess as a knowledgable coffee fiend who has owned both this is a pretty definitive opinion... Thanks Chap...


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

Many thanks for the kind offer @gman147. I'm in Cambridge, so not that near Cheltenham, but I do occasionally travel in your direction, so I'll take a rain cheque if may?


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

I'm quite a bit closer than Cheltenham, but still learning my way around the grinder to be quite honest, although I am starting to feel more confident of late (not sure confident enough to show off my setup yet, though







)

I tried a lot of grinders whilst trying to figure out what I wanted, and the EK43 is different, pure and simple. In the end the decision came down to which path I wanted to go down - the Compak E8 / E10 and R120 all produced wonderfully detailed shots for example, but only the EK produced this weird fruity sweetness, which I have to admit can be quite addictive.

Having looked into the science behind it I can't really explain it better than above with the grind distribution charts etc. All I know is that when you hit the sweet spot, boy do you know it. Note: I'm not knocking other grinders, really I'm not, but in the end I haven't had a shot off any grinder like a *good* ek43 shot, hence my eventual decision.


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