# Just got this Santos!



## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

Bought this yesterday for £80.... It's been in a garage for a few years- fitted a new fuse & removed the mouldy beans & it works a dream-

It's a bit of a beast! anyone else got one?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I do have one, but don't use it. Been too happy with the Feldgrind lately.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

complete bargain, get some azkoyen burrs in it and you are set, super robust grinder


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

...now that's what I call a complete bargain.


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## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> complete bargain, get some azkoyen burrs in it and you are set, super robust grinder


Thanks, I'll google and purchase some burrs- I found an online manual & it's a piece of cake to maintain


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Coffeechap's comment about azkoyen burrs is a cracker but there are an awful lot of aftermarket alternatives out there. What you need to keep an eye out for are the originals as they are made by Ditting. Normally they cost a fortune so keep looking for that deal

These really are great grinders and there could be room for modifying the case if you feel like a change. Cracking deal.... Well done!!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

grumpydaddy said:


> Coffeechap's comment about azkoyen burrs is a cracker but there are an awful lot of aftermarket alternatives out there. What you need to keep an eye out for are the originals as they are made by Ditting. Normally they cost a fortune so keep looking for that deal
> 
> These really are great grinders and there could be room for modifying the case if you feel like a change. Cracking deal.... Well done!!


Didn't know they were made by Ditting. I paid £67.80 for them, which isn't that bad, really.

Making it stepless is definitely worth it and it's a doddle to do so.


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## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

grumpydaddy said:


> Coffeechap's comment about azkoyen burrs is a cracker but there are an awful lot of aftermarket alternatives out there. What you need to keep an eye out for are the originals as they are made by Ditting. Normally they cost a fortune so keep looking for that deal
> 
> These really are great grinders and there could be room for modifying the case if you feel like a change. Cracking deal.... Well done!!


Hi, Thanks.. what about these??

http://www.commercial-coffee-machines.co.uk/Santos+No+4+Coffee+Grinder+Burrs+-+set+of+2+grinding+wheels/0_CAAA121_CAAA195_CAAA201/PRAB210.htm


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

matt- said:


> Hi, Thanks.. what about these??
> 
> http://www.commercial-coffee-machines.co.uk/Santos+No+4+Coffee+Grinder+Burrs+-+set+of+2+grinding+wheels/0_CAAA121_CAAA195_CAAA201/PRAB210.htm


These there the ones I bought. They should be the genuine ones.


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## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

PPapa said:


> Didn't know they were made by Ditting. I paid £67.80 for them, which isn't that bad, really.
> 
> Making it stepless is definitely worth it and it's a doddle to do so.


Stepless? can you explain or post a photo please!


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

matt- said:


> Stepless? can you explain or post a photo please!


Yes, the adjustment mechanism is based on a ball bearing slot in the adjustment dial and the ridged circle on the main body. When you rotate the dial, it clicks in between the ridges.

You have to relieve the index with 2mm Allen key so you can rotate the adjustment more than 360 degrees. Rotate it all the way out, then use the flat screwdriver and remove the dial itself. The ball bearing should have dropped. You'll need to glue some rubber on to increase the friction so that the grind setting doesn't drift.

I think I got the instructions right. I'm usually bad with such things, but it was a doddle.


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## crmdgnly (Apr 12, 2017)

PPapa said:


> These there the ones I bought. They should be the genuine ones.


I have seen these for sub £30, does anyone have any views on whether these or the genuine ones linked from commercial-coffee-machines would be better for esspresso please?

*Azkoyen D-64 Espresso Coffee Grinder blades, Ø64x37x9mm*


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Is that a Santos number 4? How do you find it for domestic use, isn't it aimed at grinding bagfuls at a time? I'm assuming that £120 for one woudl be a good price (yes, I may have found one!)


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

At that sort of price just get it. They are great for single dosing


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## Densven (Sep 10, 2013)

I've been looking at this grinder but not found any for the prices you guys have!! Doesn't seem to be much info out there on them..


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Got it for £80

It seems very good

But it's BIG!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Absolute bargain.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

pgarrish said:


> Got it for £80
> 
> It seems very good
> 
> But it's BIG!


I remember when one of CFUK members popped in to my flat. We were chatting, he looked at the Santos in the kitchen and then asked if I'm single.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Thought I'd check the burrs. Three bolts and the thing is in pieces. Burrs feel sharp:





































I've cleaned out all the loose stuff and not adjusted anything as yet. Will try all the grind settings later


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

The light reflected from the cutting edges of the burrs suggests quite worn to me ??


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

£60 for a replacement set if that's the case

Zooming in on the photos I'd have to agree, they look quite tired.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

So I have found two options for replacements:

These from Penine look identical to the ones in the machine now:

And these from EspressoUnderground have those stepped Azkoyen style teeth

Obviously I would like the EU blades ot be the best option since they are £20 cheaper 

What do people think?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I would go with the original pattern, they look finer - you will always worry that its not grinding as well as it could if you fit a different pattern,


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

My originals were totally shot so no comparison possible. I ended up getting these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Azkoyen-D-64-Espresso-Coffee-Grinder-blades-64x37x9mm-original-New/230958762413?hash=item35c63709ad:g:egsAAMXQ71xRXtJK

I am very happy with the result

My reasoning was that the information available at the time showed that original Azkoyen were made by Ditting, a company I trust in this field.

The gamble was with the position of the holes which turned out to be a little off. However the fit of the burrs onto the base is VERY close, so much so that it was necessary to pull the burrs down with the mounting screws. The holes in the burrs being that bit larger than the screws allowed this and they sit flush in their recess once fitted.

The Santos has a 600w motor so when you consider that a Super Jolly has 350w I did not think there would be any issues with enough power or torque to drive burrs with breaking edges and this has been the case.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

The penine set look to be OEM. The others are sold as Santos 4 63.5mm but I'll call and check first


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

ask espresso underground if theirs are originals or compatibles https://www.espressounderground.co.uk/SANTOS_NO_4_GRINDER_BLADES_63_5_X_36_LH_p/santgb24814.htm


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

jimbojohn55 said:


> ask espresso underground if theirs are originals or compatibles https://www.espressounderground.co.uk/SANTOS_NO_4_GRINDER_BLADES_63_5_X_36_LH_p/santgb24814.htm


I left a message for them yesterday. Will try them tomorrow


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Been playing with grind settings today, coop beans... coarsest to finest


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

For those who are interested, here are some more innards










The view 'up the chute' as it were










And from the top

Adjusted the gap as per the instructions. They definitely move when the dial is turned so I can only assume the burrs are knackered since adjusting the dial doesn't seem to make a huge difference to the grind...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Yeah, that doesn't look right. My espresso range was close to the tightest setting and yet Chemex (really coarse) was 3/4 of a full turn. I wouldn't blame burrs as going coarser should still get bigger chunks.

If you loosen the grub screw (the grind adjustment arrow, if you like) and tighten the grind slowly, do you get burrs chirping/touching? I remember I messed up something and the adjustment didn't do a thing. I took it apart, put it together and it was all good again.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

I think that was the noise it made... backing off stopped it... but no, it doesn't look right to me either. Do I undo the adjustment knob to get into the mechanism?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

https://www.santos.fr/media/ftp/Users_manuals/EN_English/SANTOS_01-04-manu-EN-last.pdf


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Looks like the adjustment mech isn't quite right. I can dial the burrs together, and back them off but I'd expect a bigger difference between the finest










And coarsest


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## haz_pro (Apr 4, 2013)

They look very different to me.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Different enough? Can I relax and get new burrs


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## salty (Mar 7, 2017)

haz_pro said:


> They look very different to me.


Me too


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Yeah, that's very different! The coarse one is probably too coarse for anything to be used anyway.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Wahey!!! I was expecting a wider range of grinds from one end of the dial to the other - if a click or two makes all the difference when it makes such a small change I can start to understand the importance of the grinder.

New burrs it is, and...maybe... a machine to make best use of my new grinder  I'm assuming a Classic would serve me well?


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

By the way, some settings where setting #1 is one notch away from burr touching:

1~2 espresso range

7 AeroPress

9.5 V60

18 Chemex (or 16, can't remember now!)


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Only ever make espresso... thanks though. Will try in the morning


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Spoke to espresso underground. He was surprised the pattern is different but was sure they are a direct replacement. Next day delivery too









... just see how much the heating engineer relieves me of first


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Heating engineer relieved me of a good chunk of change albeit less than feared and with AMAZING results (10 years of mediocre heating solved with a £120 extra pump...)

However a new machine will have to wait til new year.

I'm thinking one of those refurb Gaggia Classics from the chap on here would be a good fit?


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Got some of those 0.1g jewellery scales today

12.1 g beans in

12.0 g ground coffee out


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

That with the old burrs sounds right


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

grumpydaddy said:


> That with the old burrs sounds right


I thought 0.1g retention/loss was pretty good? Will it get better or worse with new burrs?


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Initially it will probably get worse and that mainly due to the new burrs being more prone to static.

but a few kilos of beans or a couple kg of rice trickled through will soon get you back to where you are now with almost zero retention


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Sounds ok

A couple of kilos might take a whole 2 minutes


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

pgarrish said:


> Got some of those 0.1g jewellery scales today
> 
> 12.1 g beans in
> 
> 12.0 g ground coffee out


There's probably 3-5g of coffee in the gaps inside. Not sure how much of that is exchanged, but don't take that 12.1g in means there's 12g of fresh coffee out.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

It tends to hold whole or half beans more than grinds but agreed, it's not quite that straight forward


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

PPapa said:


> There's probably 3-5g of coffee in the gaps inside. Not sure how much of that is exchanged, but don't take that 12.1g in means there's 12g of fresh coffee out.


Did you ever measure retention between doses? I ask because i feel like the first dose after adjusting the grind is still at the old setting. If 5-6g or so if each dose is retained then that would explain it a bit, plus it suggests I need to run a few more beans through before a dose as we don't use it more than once or twice a day so half our dose is 24hrs old each time potentially...


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

pgarrish said:


> Did you ever measure retention between doses? I ask because i feel like the first dose after adjusting the grind is still at the old setting. If 5-6g or so if each dose is retained then that would explain it a bit, plus it suggests I need to run a few more beans through before a dose as we don't use it more than once or twice a day so half our dose is 24hrs old each time potentially...


Never tried to measure it, but there's certainly some. I'd say it's less than what you noticed, though.


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## LukLe (Feb 28, 2018)

I use Santos coffee machine and I am very happy with that.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

I've now put another Kg or so through.... and I am basically leaving the dial at the bottom of Fine all the time. Any coarser is too coarse and another click has the burrs touching.... do I need to do the tin foil alignment thing? I take it the procedure is as per YouTube? Marker pen on a burr, run it, pack the side that still has pen, rinse and repeat then do the other burr?


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Interesting stuff! I've had to stop myself buying a Santos 01 several times on eBay. Love the retro look but not convinced it beats a Super Jolly for grind.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

No idea how it compares but it munches through 18g quickly and quietly


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

pgarrish said:


> No idea how it compares but it munches through 18g quickly and quietly


Well, it does have a nice big motor - 600W to the SJ 350W. That must make a difference. Needs a stepless mod I believe - found that in a search. But looks like the espresso range of adjustment is better on the SJ. That would be a clincher for me.


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> Well, it does have a nice big motor - 600W to the SJ 350W. That must make a difference. Needs a stepless mod I believe - found that in a search.


I should really do it , it's very easy apparently, but I'm surprised I'm within one click of touching burrs, I'd expect a bit more room...

Time to ditch the Ball bearing it seems


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> Well, it does have a nice big motor - 600W to the SJ 350W. That must make a difference. Needs a stepless mod I believe - found that in a search.


I should really do it , it's very easy apparently, but I'm surprised I'm within one click of touching burrs, I'd expect a bit more room...

Time to ditch the Ball bearing it seems


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