# Vesuvius - Marked E61 Group Head & wood turning



## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

So my vesuvius has developed this mark on top & side of the group head. It seems to me to be coming out through the surface, if that makes sense. It also aligns with a lug of the portafilter.

Has anyone else seen this similar and if so, were you able to get rid of the mark or is it a manufacturing defect?









Second question: has anyone replaced the wood on the portafilter handles and the toggles? The OEM wood really does detract from the overall impression of quality.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Is there any sign of a pinhole in the chrome or on the inside of the casting?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Water/cleaning compounds can can dry on the group head and leave a mark, but it buffs out. Have you tried a non abrasive steel cleaner on the cold group? Unless the chrome is damaged (which would be visible), I don't think anything can really rise to the surface from the brass below and the chrome on the groups is quite thick. I have alerted ACS to this, but I would try a non abrasive cleaner first with a microfibre cloth. I use Method stainless steel cleaner.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

El carajillo said:


> Is there any sign of a pinhole in the chrome or on the inside of the casting?


I haven't looked inside but there's nothing on the outside.



DavecUK said:


> Water/cleaning compounds can can dry on the group head and leave a mark, but it buffs out. Have you tried a non abrasive steel cleaner on the cold group? Unless the chrome is damaged (which would be visible), I don't think anything can really rise to the surface from the brass below and the chrome on the groups is quite thick. I have alerted ACS to this, but I would try a non abrasive cleaner first with a microfibre cloth. I use Method stainless steel cleaner.


Thanks Dave, I'll get some method & give it a go. To date I've used nothing but a microfibre & the finish is spotless so I haven't felt the need to use anything.


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## Paolo_Cortese (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi this is the first time that i hear something like that, how old is your machine? i already forwarded this photo to our supplier and i'll wait an answer from them to know if they have found this problem somewhere else. From my experience with suppliers, generally they will say no 99,9% so that's why it's much better to go ahead to understand which could be the reason of this mark. Honestly the first impression is that something drop on the hot surface and spoiled the surface.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Re changing the wood, myself and xpenno did it, from a guy in the USA but i cant see why someone like Jimbob couldnt do you something.

In the USA they dont even come supplied with that wood finish the suppliers changed them out ( coincidentally made by the guy that made mine )

I agree the finish of that wood wasn't to my taste.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

What about a dab of Maas metal polish on that group head, it's a slightly abrasive polish . . . I suggest testing it first on an out of sight area. We used Maas to polish some light scratches out of our worktop (Silestone). It didn't take the shine away, if anything it enhanced it. But TEST IT FIRST!


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Hi Paolo.

I took delivery on the 1st March. I know what you mean that it looks like something on the surface but it started out as a very small mark and has been spreading slowly. The surface is otherwise perfectly smooth & unmarked.

Looking back at photos from 1st March, the mark was already there, although smaller. I'll attach the photo from my phone now...


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Just installed (photo taken 1st March). I've left the photo at max resolution so the mark should just be visible.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Re changing the wood, myself and xpenno did it, from a guy in the USA but i cant see why someone like Jimbob couldnt do you something.
> 
> In the USA they dont even come supplied with that wood finish the suppliers changed them out ( coincidentally made by the guy that made mine )
> 
> I agree the finish of that wood wasn't to my taste.


I guess it shouldn't be too difficult for someone who can turn wood. Right, I'll go and start looking at options. Londiniums use Wenge don't they? That's a good starting point.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

BaggaZee said:


> I guess it shouldn't be too difficult for someone who can turn wood. Right, I'll go and start looking at options. Londiniums use Wenge don't they? That's a good starting point.


Talk to Jim see if he is up for it and what wood he can get hold off. Wenge isnt cheap


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Will do.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

BaggaZee said:


> I guess it shouldn't be too difficult for someone who can turn wood. Right, I'll go and start looking at options. Londiniums use Wenge don't they? That's a good starting point.


A nice fruitwood could look good & will be food safe. Some others have no places in the kitchen unless thoroughly sealed.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

ashcroc said:


> A nice fruitwood could look good & will be food safe. Some others have no places in the kitchen unless thoroughly sealed.


Good to know. I must admit that this wouldn't have occurred to me.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I am pretty sure Ronsil replaced his handles?

Try walnut, it's a great wood for espresso machines and not too soft.

I always liked the look of this!


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I am pretty sure Ronsil replaced his handles?
> 
> Try walnut, it's a great wood for espresso machines and not too soft.
> 
> ...


I do like walnut but would like to retain the shape of the originals. Those look a bit, erm, ribbed.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Wenge has interesting grain, very dark, takes marks well, With chrome you can go with most shades of wood but light ones and coffee don't tend to mix,

Dark walnut is quite traditional but something more exotic like bocote or even a burr wood give it more exclusivity.

I agree the V handles look like beech with an orange varnish finish - bit 1980's Parker Knoll -

If the V handles have a massive hole through them like a Londinium handle then I would have to pass, I'm not sure what the construction is so will dig around.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BaggaZee said:


> Just installed (photo taken 1st March). I've left the photo at max resolution so the mark should just be visible.


Saw this and had a chat on Skype with Paolo. I have never heard of a group head chroming defect on a Vesuvius before, but nothing is impossible. There can be things like low sulphate concentration a bad contact, sometimes a floating bit of contamination in the tank. Try very gently to try and clean it and i*f that doesn't work (just report back on the thread), then Paolo will send you a new E61 group....As you know they are VERY expensive and come with all the internals, but no shower screen, gasket or wooden knob, just a thread for you to put your existing wooden knob on.. *.....apart from the pump and control board that is probably the 3rd most expensive item on the machine

















*The only thing you have to do is fit it.*...it's not hugely difficult and Paolo will give you some guidance on best tools/process. There are 4 nuts that have to come off, all "should" be accessible once you remove the top and possibly a side panel.. The nuts are on with sealant, but you can use PTFE which I prefer) to reseal.









Although if it were me, I would continue to use the existing group and keep the new one as a *perfect* spare to pop on in the future! I had an E61 group once, but had to give it back. I used it for this article.

http://coffeetimex.wikidot.com/e61-group-servicing


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BaggaZee said:


> I do like walnut but would like to retain the shape of the originals. Those look a bit, erm, ribbed.


Dual use...


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Thanks Dave and Paolo.

I'll pick up some of that polish (John Lewis do it) & give it a go, then report back. I'm happy to get my hands dirty if needs be, it's a good way to get to know a piece of kit.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

PS, I've read that very article, it's bookmarked for when the time comes that I need it.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

here you go bocote set $100 from the states https://www.chriscoffee.com/Vesuvius-Wooden-Accent-handle-kit-Bacote-p/bacotevs.htm


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Wenge has interesting grain, very dark, takes marks well, With chrome you can go with most shades of wood but light ones and coffee don't tend to mix,
> 
> Dark walnut is quite traditional but something more exotic like bocote or even a burr wood give it more exclusivity.
> 
> ...


ThNks for the recommendations, I'll take a look. The handles do have the hole all the way through:


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Bocote is rather nice.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BaggaZee said:


> Thanks Dave and Paolo.
> 
> I'll pick up some of that polish (John Lewis do it) & give it a go, then report back. I'm happy to get my hands dirty if needs be, it's a good way to get to know a piece of kit.


My daughter plays flute and we use a goddards silver cloth on that, so possibly that may work if done gently, but that should be the last thing you try? That said unless it comes of easy and looks like a future problem, then I still think you will get sent a group.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I am pretty sure Ronsil replaced his handles?
> 
> Try walnut, it's a great wood for espresso machines and not too soft.
> 
> ...


The 'old faema style' is my favourite, looks quite ergonomic



DavecUK said:


> Dual use...


Oh you :-D


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Re changing the wood, myself and xpenno did it, from a guy in the USA.


Me too. Well worth the modification.


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## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

BaggaZee said:


> I guess it shouldn't be too difficult for someone who can turn wood. Right, I'll go and start looking at options. Londiniums use Wenge don't they? That's a good starting point.


Mine are oiled Indian rosewood.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Obnic said:


> Mine are oiled Indian rosewood.


Ooh, I do like a rosewood fretboard...


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Obnic said:


> Mine are oiled Indian rosewood.


Ooh, I do like a rosewood fretboard...


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

BaggaZee said:


> So my vesuvius has developed this mark on top & side of the group head. It seems to me to be coming out through the surface, if that makes sense. It also aligns with a lug of the portafilter.
> 
> Has anyone else seen this similar and if so, were you able to get rid of the mark or is it a manufacturing defect?
> 
> ...


Do not have time to go trough all thread but seeing the first post, looks like we gave the same issues.

Mine on portafilter and starts to develop on top of group head. To mee looks like a manufacturing process issue.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

The butomless pf started with a spot and ended up like this - peeled off chrome in first weeks of use. Contacted Paolo and he offered me a replacement but he never sent it.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

On the plus side it will look really cool without the chrome.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Let's see what the customer service is like!


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## Big Pete (Mar 13, 2018)

For what it's worth it's a manufacturing fault no doubt about that.

i have been in manufacturing for over 30 years and now and again these things happen, it's how the manufacturer deals with it that's key.

it should be replaced and if they have offered to do that then just chase them down, they have probably just forgotten.

cheers

Big Pete


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Let's see what the customer service is like!


...from personal experience I always found the customer service very good.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Water/cleaning compounds can can dry on the group head and leave a mark, but it buffs out. Have you tried a non abrasive steel cleaner on the cold group? Unless the chrome is damaged (which would be visible), I don't think anything can really rise to the surface from the brass below and the chrome on the groups is quite thick. I have alerted ACS to this, but I would try a non abrasive cleaner first with a microfibre cloth. I use Method stainless steel cleaner.


Seeing in another thread that you use Method I bought one and I use it regularly for machine cleaning It is very good

... but has no effect on those marks.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

Big Pete said:


> For what it's worth it's a manufacturing fault no doubt about that.
> 
> i have been in manufacturing for over 30 years and now and again these things happen, it's how the manufacturer deals with it that's key.
> 
> ...


Chased him but no joy


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

ronsil said:


> ...from personal experience I always found the customer service very good.


I think they try hard to make people happy...no reason not to....and @iulianato simply contact them and remind them about the peeling portafilter replacement.



iulianato said:


> Do not have time to go trough all thread but seeing the first post, looks like we gave the same issues.
> 
> Mine on portafilter and starts to develop on top of group head. To me looks like a manufacturing process issue.


The group manufacturer does not supply the portafilters and ACS don't do the chroming (so coincidental), so the second portafilter may peel, it may never peel and it sometimes happens. The portafilters are simply from standard suppliers to all the manufacturers and accessory/parts sellers.

*This next bit applies to anyone with an E61 group or similar big chromed group from any machine...including levers!*

All chrome parts deteriorate over time, this deterioration is hastened by environmental conditions and the heat of an E61 group in use doesn't help. You can see many instances of even 6 or 7 year old machines with significant chrome deterioration. My Duetto number 0001 (first one ever made) over 10 years old now has no chrome deterioration on the group. Not because it's special in any way, it's due to regular maintenance and *it looks just as new on the inside as it does on the outside.* Someone once said to me ah but you don't use it much because your always testing stuff. What they didn't know is during that time it was always on, so I could compare with shots from test machines and also so I could always get a known good coffee from the Duetto when I needed to. This machine has been used plenty (I make a LOT of coffee), but also well maintained. In all these years I have never had a fault with it.

  DSC01051 by davecorbey, on Flickr

  DSC01053 by davecorbey, on Flickr

*
Even though it has been in storage for almost 3 years, it is still regularly cleaned, this is to prevent chrome deterioration.* Sure the machine is covered with a cloth, but it still needs cleaning and I do this every 4 months.

@iulianato, with your group, you need to be careful, the little dots I see (I presume that's what you mean) are not chrome defects, they appear on all groups and over the years I have seen many E61 groups (from all manufacturers) with marks. These can be caused by labels or air contamination (it's why I always remove the hot label). These will pit the chrome, caused by the adhesive, if left on long enough. in addition contaminants in the air will also pit the chrome, especially with the machine in a kitchen (fats are bad). Contaminants sit on top of the hot chrome and gradually can etch the surface. *This can happen surprisingly rapidly.* Initially they bake on hard after more time they become extremely difficult to remove. If left longer they gradually start to etch the group. This is because these contaminants are not just water and as we know even hard water will etch chrome, just look at taps and bathroom fittings near the rims where water comes out.

I *suppose I have never banged on about this in the cleanliness stuff I regularly post, the reason....I just stupidly assumed that when people pay 1000s for a machine they really look after it. Sadly when I see other peoples newer machines, this is not usually the case. So an apt moment for this post and these are the things you must do:*


Clean the E61 group (when cold) of all contaminants every week (If something gets on in between, clean it off)

Clean the case of the machine every 2 weeks

Check the inside of the machine 6 monthly and clean any accumulated dust (cloth *dampened* with cleaner) careful with circuit boards SSRs etc


I used to use Tableau, unfortunately it's not made any more, so I moved to Method stainless steel cleaner. The issue is getting steel cleaners with Silicone and they are simply not seemingly made any more. I chose method not because I liked the label or the marketing shite, but because it contains ®-p-mentha-1 8-diene (Limonene). Limonene is a Terpene and as such should offer a protective as well as cleaning effect and be a particularly good cleaner for any fatty deposits, whilst being food safe.

The technique is to use a good quality Microfibre cloth with the label torn off...when washing the cloths (cool wash) don't use conditioner and don't use a tumble drier. The group should ideally be cleaned cold and once cleaned buffed to minimise any cleaning residues on the group. Don't press too hard just buff longer. Pay particular attention to the vent area and the smaller less accessibly areas around the lever, back of the mushroom bolt and sides etc.. Don't forget the back of the vent pipe. If you don't do this your E61 group will deteriorate, not might, will. It happens slowly and gradually over time, so it's hard to notice, until a 6 months later you give it a thorough clean (rather than a cursory one) and notice a few marks that either won't come out or contaminants are so hard to get off that you don't worry about it...those contaminants then continue to etch into the chrome.

I know, you will say I keep my machine clean, he is talking rubbish. Go on flikr, look at the album and close ups of those photos and if you have a even a 7 year old machine that looks like that congratulations, you're doing a good job. @hotmetal will attest to the fact that I look after my stuff and when I did sell him a machine I made sure it was tested and perfect. If you can't look at say a 7 year old machine and have it almost indistinguishable from factory fresh, then pep up the maintenance. If you have just bought a prosumer machine, especially if it's the one for all time, look after it and in 10 years it can still look the same as the day you bought it.....I sometimes get annoyed when I see tired old and unloved machines because there is no need for it ever to happen.

P.S. Even if you don't keep the machine if you look after it, you will always get a much better price for it when you sell it and it will be easier to sell. Think of my machine, if it came up for sale (which it won't ever)....compared to some you see for sale on e-bay etc.., which one are you going to buy and possibly pay more for. It pays in so many ways to look after these machines!


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## Paolo_Cortese (Jul 11, 2014)

The problem with nacked PF is different than the problem of the group. The reason why the PF is not shipped yet is that I'm waiting the new batch after that I shipped back the stock that I had. In any case I think that the quality of the after salas service should be monitored in a different way.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I @hotmetal will attest to the fact that I look after my stuff and when I did sell him a machine I made sure it was tested and perfect.


Indeed. I bought my R58 from Dave, and the Eureka 65E shortly after. Both these were absolutely indistinguishable from new. I also have seen Dave's other machines, including the big V (not been round since the Niche though). All his machines - both those in use and in storage - were pristine.

Before I left with my R58 he spent literally ages (with me feverishly taking notes) testing, checking and showing me how best to care for and use the machine. I've followed the instructions as best I can and there is no problem with the chrome group, PF or stainless, save a few water marks that are a bit stubborn round the exhaust vent of the group. I also use the Method and microfibre cloth. I didn't know about the chemical in Method, but went on Dave's recommendation. As mine lives in the kitchen, I keep it covered when not in use to keep fats off, and give it a regular clean. I also protect from scratches on the top and drip tray with a sheet of Cookamesh.

_______

Eat, drink and be merry


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

hotmetal said:


> Indeed. I bought my R58 from Dave, and the Eureka 65E shortly after. Both these were absolutely indistinguishable from new. I also have seen Dave's other machines, including the big V (not been round since the Niche though). All his machines - both those in use and in storage - were pristine.
> 
> Before I left with my R58 he spent literally ages (with me feverishly taking notes) testing, checking and showing me how best to care for and use the machine. I've followed the instructions as best I can and there is no problem with the chrome group, PF or stainless, save a few water marks that are a bit stubborn round the exhaust vent of the group. I also use the Method and microfibre cloth. I didn't know about the chemical in Method, but went on Dave's recommendation. As mine lives in the kitchen, I keep it covered when not in use to keep fats off, and give it a regular clean. I also protect from scratches on the top and drip tray with a sheet of Cookamesh.
> 
> ...


I love this guy...looks after his machine and will reap the rewards if it's either sold on or kept for 20 years!


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

@DavecUK

Thank you for the post - good to know that.

I do look after my assets and I'm very carful with all the goods I posses. I like tidiness more than most of the people so I do not think we have a misuse or negligence case here.

With the Vesuvius, I do clean the case including grouphead every weekend. with Method. What you see in that picture is dust acumulated over 6 days since last clean. Or are the dots in the blue area in the following photo. Those dots are not visible with naked eyes so no I'm not concerned about them.

In the photo I posted yesterday it is not very clear where the issue is. It is not very easy to take a close-up and focus on a mirror like finished surface and to try to get rid of reflections...

Here below is a better picture taken today. It is much visible than in picture but this is the best I could take.

See te area highlighted with red - that is the area that concerns me.

Coincidence or not, to me it looks like it is the same issue as on portafilter - the chrome starts to degrade from inside.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I am on my phone, but it's hardly visible. As it's only the mushroom/nut should it progress just contact ACS if it gets worse they can send you another mushroom/nut.

TBH I don't know why this is happening, not been a problem before. I know ACS will have a word with

group manufacturer.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I think they try hard to make people happy...no reason not to....and @iulianato simply contact them and remind them about the peeling portafilter replacement.
> 
> The group manufacturer does not supply the portafilters and ACS don't do the chroming (so coincidental), so the second portafilter may peel, it may never peel and it sometimes happens. The portafilters are simply from standard suppliers to all the manufacturers and accessory/parts sellers.
> 
> ...


Reading again your post and still can't belive what you are insinuating and all without any reason.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

iulianato said:


> Reading again your post and still can't belive what you are insinuating and all without any reason.


Well the first photo you posted all I could see were these little dots. I tried to explain it's not defects and if left they will cause pitting. It then reminded me that a lot of people might be leaving these on the group a lot longer than they should I know people who do not properly clean the group weekly! It was a good time to also let others know they they should be cleaning a lot more diligently than they might be. Sure it looked like simple particles and was not until you posted your second photo, with the area indicated in red, that I could even be aware of where on the group you had the problem, it certainly wasn't visible on the first photo. In the second photo it's certainly hard to see even with the area marked.









If you want to take exception, that's your choice...I was trying to help you and others. I can't really make out the defect even in the second photo but if you are worried about it, take it up with ACS. I did remind ACS they had forgotten to send you a portafilter and I believe Paolo has posted. So in future if you post about your concerns with the machine on the forum, I will refrain from comment in case I upset you (which I don't want to do). Or you can simply e-mail ACS with your concerns. I'm not a politician and don't really want to tread on eggshells at my age in case I upset someone.

So I am sorry if I upset you....and hopefully we can leave it at that.


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## Talk_Coffee (Sep 2, 2017)

I wasn't a fan of the wood either- but I'm generally not that enamoured by wood on espresso machines anyway.

We had our tamper guy (Gavin of Bogav) do these and I like them a whole heap better. http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/shop/acetal-handle-upgrade-kit-for-acs-vesuvius/


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> Well the first photo you posted all I could see were these little dots. I tried to explain it's not defects and if left they will cause pitting. It then reminded me that a lot of people might be leaving these on the group a lot longer than they should I know people who do not properly clean the group weekly! It was a good time to also let others know they they should be cleaning a lot more diligently than they might be. Sure it looked like simple particles and was not until you posted your second photo, with the area indicated in red, that I could even be aware of where on the group you had the problem, it certainly wasn't visible on the first photo. In the second photo it's certainly hard to see even with the area marked.
> 
> View attachment 33977
> 
> ...


I was not upset. This is a public forum and I just wanted you to clarify your point because for me alone was not totally clear. If you feel offended by this I apologise and if you choose to stop commenting my post is of corse your free will but I never intended this.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Talk_Coffee said:


> I wasn't a fan of the wood either- but I'm generally not that enamoured by wood on espresso machines anyway.
> 
> We had our tamper guy (Gavin of Bogav) do these and I like them a whole heap better. http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/shop/acetal-handle-upgrade-kit-for-acs-vesuvius/


That could look good on the Black machine. Any pics in situ?


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Dave, thanks for the cleaning post. I'm fairly OCD about keeping my coffee kit clean but I hadn't considered that a cleaning product would add a protective layer.

I'm just waiting for the machine to cool down before trying the Method cleaner, then I'll report back.

I'll also now be looking for a cover for the machine.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

BaggaZee said:


> That could look good on the Black machine. Any pics in situ?


They look really good!


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Well, I've used the method cleaner and the machine is super shiny and now smells good too. Unfortunately it didn't have any effect on the mark on the group head.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

BaggaZee said:


> Well, I've used the method cleaner and the machine is super shiny and now smells good too. Unfortunately it didn't have any effect on the mark on the group head.


oh dear,may be Defect under the chrome , as the groups are probably bought in there would have been no evidence of this until the machine was used ie. the group heating up and cooling .

I am sure they will sort this for you , and hey you'll still be able to have coffee in the meantime .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> oh dear,may be Defect under the chrome , as the groups are probably bought in there would have been no evidence of this until the machine was used ie. the group heating up and cooling .
> 
> I am sure they will sort this for you , and hey you'll still be able to have coffee in the meantime .


For sure the marks would not have been there when the machine was shipped as it's SO expensive for them to rectify this. Not only do they have to buy another group and airship the thing....but they can't go back to the group manufacturer to get compensation for the defect. This would not be the case if at the time of initial delivery of goods ACS had returned defective groups to the manufacturer. As you say though the marks probably became visible after a bit of use, it might have even been a time factor (or combination of both) e.g. it took a few weeks to show. This is because ACS don't keep large stocks of groups for months, it's not cost effective.

If the guys are smart, they will continue to use the machines as they are and only fit the parts if the problem becomes really bad, as they might as well get the most use out of what they have. If I had a new group, I certainly wouldn't fit it for a LONG time (read years and years). The other guy with the mushroom nut, sure he can fit the new one, but I wouldn't bother unless it started getting much worse. In this way he has a pristine new mushroom waiting in the wings.

for working on E61 groups don't forget a wrench with adjustable jaws and jaw covers:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-C1678-Adjustable-Mouth-Wrench/dp/B003XKRSI6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525772689&sr=8-1&keywords=amtech+adjustable+wide+jaw


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## Talk_Coffee (Sep 2, 2017)

For those who requested, here are a few quick and dirty pix of the machined acetal handles on a machine in for service.

It has a little texture too, so it's beautifully tactile.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> For sure the marks would not have been there when the machine was shipped as it's SO expensive for them to rectify this. Not only do they have to buy another group and airship the thing....but they can't go back to the group manufacturer to get compensation for the defect. This would not be the case if at the time of initial delivery of goods ACS had returned defective groups to the manufacturer. As you say though the marks probably became visible after a bit of use, it might have even been a time factor (or combination of both) e.g. it took a few weeks to show. This is because ACS don't keep large stocks of groups for months, it's not cost effective.
> 
> If the guys are smart, they will continue to use the machines as they are and only fit the parts if the problem becomes really bad, as they might as well get the most use out of what they have. If I had a new group, I certainly wouldn't fit it for a LONG time (read years and years). The other guy with the mushroom nut, sure he can fit the new one, but I wouldn't bother unless it started getting much worse. In this way he has a pristine new mushroom waiting in the wings.
> 
> ...


So the mark was visible, but smaller, in the pic I took on delivery day. I don't know if I'd just turned the machine on or if it had been on for hours at that stage. In case it was heat which brought out the mark, it would seem prudent to fit the new group head and heat the machine to make sure the same problem isn't present. Also, I'd rather have the perfect, unblemished machine to use every day. If the mark hadn't really bothered me I wouldn't accept the offer of a new E61.

This way I also get to know my machine much better and the spare, blemished group head will help me to understand how they work and how to disassemble them for maintenance. I've already bought the soft-jawed grips!

@Paolo_Cortese, please let me know what you need from me to get the ball rolling on this. I'll DM you my address now in case you don't have it.

Thanks!


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## db8000 (Dec 6, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> for working on E61 groups don't forget a wrench with adjustable jaws and jaw covers:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-C1678-Adjustable-Mouth-Wrench/dp/B003XKRSI6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1525772689&sr=8-1&keywords=amtech+adjustable+wide+jaw


Perfect! thanks for the link. standard size spanners and electrical tape bodge no more!


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## Paolo_Cortese (Jul 11, 2014)

A new group is on the way by DHL

Paolo


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just so anyone reading is aware...Paolo already sent a new group a while ago, it was damaged in transit....this is yet another group, packed differently to avoid the chance those B%^%$s at the airport damage it again!


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Holy cow dung!! I hate that.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

I received the 2nd replacement group today but haven't had a chance to look at it yet. I'm hoping to get that installed at the weekend (daughter's birthday may have other ideas) and the other two returned to Paolo. Obviously I've still been able to make coffee throughout so I'm perfectly happy and looking forward to getting inside the Vesuvius for a bit of a fiddle.


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

Well, after a few false starts and the purchase of some crows feet spanners (I'd never heard of them and already wonder how I've managed without them), she lives!

The second replacement group looks perfect and is fitted and working. I'll be keeping a close eye on it for any sign of deterioration but I'm sure it'll be fine.

Having been inside this machine now I must say, it really is very well built. Everything's solid as a rock and it's fairly easy to work on (apart from the strongest threadlock I've ever encountered). There are no sharp edges and there's plenty of room to wield a spanner.

A few tips, should you ever need to do this:

-You only need to remove the top. It's a heavy machine and removing the side & back involves lots of manoeuvering. Save your strength.

-Buy some crows feet spanners.

-The threadlock on the collars on the back of the group is unbelievably strong, lots of taps or even a breaker bar may be required. Persevere.

-Use LOTS of PTFE tape, 3 turns won't do it (leaked badly), 6 turns did the trick.

-The copper pipes from the boiler to the group head can be loosened at the boiler end and rotated out of the way without draining the boiler.

Massive thanks to @DavecUK for his patience and advice and of course to @Paolo_Cortese for sending me the replacements (I'll aim to get the faulty ones back to you this week).


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