# What to keep? Cherub or Giotto



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

*Which to keep?*​
Rocket Giotto1386.67%Fracino Cherub213.33%


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi Guys

Recently bought a Cherub and a Rocket Giotto...

Which should I keep!?

Only one allowed!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Keep the giotto

if both of a similar Age and condition etc

how have you ended up with both ,

you will not have any issues selling either , if the price is correct ...

13 char


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Which model of Giotto? Premium Plus or Evoluzione?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

funinacup said:


> Which model of Giotto? Premium Plus or Evoluzione?


It's mains fed right now - another poster in this thread: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?16627-Converting-a-Rocket-Giotto-from-mains-fed-to-tanked seemed to be suggesting it would be an Evo on that basis?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm seeing a Rocket trend!

Given the ease of availability of Fracino parts I'm just working out the Rocket benefits: I'm guessing temperature stability, part quality, build quality - anyone have any specific thoughts on this please?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rocket looks nicer

rocket if a evolutione

proper e61 group

1.8 copper boiler 1400w element ?

725 ml drip tray

cherub

fracino faux e61 group (no lever ? )

2.3 litre boiler 2850 element

ancendoatly small and annoying drip try ....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have a novel idea. Make a shot, and keep the one which tastes the best!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have a novel idea. Make a shot, and keep the one which tastes the best!


nah choose the pretty one ......

i was presuming that a tasting had already occurred between them ...

but anyway , choose The pretty one .....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Martin, it is a fallacy that the girl with the big bazookas gets the job! I never understand why people buy things based on aesthetics anyway. Sit down behind a screen, have someone who can, make you a shot on each and decide that way. When I was at school, all the girls were ugly, but marriage was an institution and made to last, says he coming up to 30 this September. Nowadays, the pretty kids of today do not understand commitment and working at things, so forget my idea of owning the one which made the best tasting cup, and just keep the Rocket!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have a novel idea. Make a shot, and keep the one which tastes the best!


That thought came to my mind too. Best tasting and easiest to live with (am I still talking about coffee machines here ?)


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Having owned both I say without any hesitation, keep the Rocket! You have the real e61 group, bigger drip tray, more consistent shots, and yeah it looks better too. Also the rotary pump is much quieter than the vibe on on the Cherub. Nothing added here I know, just confining more of the same.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If you find no difference in the cup , then sell the rocket ( you'd get more money back ) and buy some ridonkulous grinder upgrade instead .....

How would that translate into your recruitment metaphor dfk ?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Wobin19 said:


> Having owned both I say without any hesitation, keep the Rocket! You have the real e61 group, bigger drip tray, more consistent shots, and yeah it looks better too. Also the rotary pump is much quieter than the vibe on on the Cherub. Nothing added here I know, just confining more of the same.


Thats the clincher for me ..... rotary pump.

I have no massive desire to change my Cherub (yet) but the noise of the pump will probably be the main reason that I use to justify the change


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> how have you ended up with both ,
> 
> you will not have any issues selling either , if the price is correct ...


Bought the Cherub - then saw the Giotto. Couldn't say no to the latter!

Might have to ask you about correct prices then in the fullness of time!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonc said:


> Bought the Cherub - then saw the Giotto. Couldn't say no to the latter!


All at new prices ?

Based on that answer sounds like you have already made your mind up ....


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> All at new prices ?
> 
> Based on that answer sounds like you have already made your mind up ....


They're both used.

Re Giotto: I was seduced by shinies and people talking on here - rather than a fact based comparison/real world use.

Maybe I need to run both for a bit; need to find a space for #2 then!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

dfk41 said:


> Martin, it is a fallacy that the girl with the big bazookas gets the job! I never understand why people buy things based on aesthetics anyway. Sit down behind a screen, have someone who can, make you a shot on each and decide that way. When I was at school, all the girls were ugly, but marriage was an institution and made to last, says he coming up to 30 this September. Nowadays, the pretty kids of today do not understand commitment and working at things, so forget my idea of owning the one which made the best tasting cup, and just keep the Rocket!


Some food for thought here.

Will see if I can discern a difference - as to having someone else make me one - erm, think I may struggle!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks to everyone so far for some differing but all quite sensible thoughts...

I'm familiar with Heavenly/Cherub family of Fracino machines so will run the Rocket for a bit and see how I get on.

Will keep you posted - and list the loser for sale here!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Jon, whichever one you sell, it will be reflected in a half decent grinder upgrade, as boots said.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I've got a Compak K3 and other than some electronic buttons/shinies I can't see what I'd gain from a new one - bar maybe a little less grind retention, maybe less clumping - what other benefits would I gain do you think?

I suppose if I wanted to spend £1k I may get something better - but I'm overall pretty happy with the Compak.

It could easily be that I don't know what I am missing though!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jonc said:


> I've got a Compak K3 and other than some electronic buttons/shinies I can't see what I'd gain from a new one - bar maybe a little less grind retention, maybe less clumping - what other benefits would I gain do you think?
> 
> I suppose if I wanted to spend £1k I may get something better - but I'm overall pretty happy with the Compak.
> 
> It could easily be that I don't know what I am missing though!


Look at it this way the grinder prepares the ingredient for your machine. I've been through several grinder upgrades each time going for a bigger burr set, the bigger the burr set the more consistent the grind, the better the result in the cup. I was really happy with my Brasilia/Rossi RR55 OD (64mm flat burrs) when I got it, the difference in taste between that and my MC2 were incredible, I then recently upgraded again to a Eureka Mythos that has 75mm Titanium burrs and made another huge leap in results in the cup. All grinders are not created equal, and you don't need to pay £1k+ to improve on your Compak K3, a Mazzer Super Jolly would be a massive improvement, or

if you are hidebound to buying new ( bear in mind the VAT man is cracking down on personal purchases made through a business to avoid the VAT) then the Eureka Zenith 65E deal from Bella Barista for £499 will knock seven shades of S**t out of your K3. There are other used grinders to look out for depending on budget around £650 would most likely get you a Mahlkonig K30 (the UKBC standard grinder).


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

£600 will get you a hell if a lot of grinder used


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Charliej said:


> Look at it this way the grinder prepares the ingredient for your machine. I've been through several grinder upgrades each time going for a bigger burr set, the bigger the burr set the more consistent the grind, the better the result in the cup. I was really happy with my Brasilia/Rossi RR55 OD (64mm flat burrs) when I got it, the difference in taste between that and my MC2 were incredible, I then recently upgraded again to a Eureka Mythos that has 75mm Titanium burrs and made another huge leap in results in the cup. All grinders are not created equal, and you don't need to pay £1k+ to improve on your Compak K3, a Mazzer Super Jolly would be a massive improvement, or
> 
> if you are hidebound to buying new ( bear in mind the VAT man is cracking down on personal purchases made through a business to avoid the VAT) then the Eureka Zenith 65E deal from Bella Barista for £499 will knock seven shades of S**t out of your K3. There are other used grinders to look out for depending on budget around £650 would most likely get you a Mahlkonig K30 (the UKBC standard grinder).


OK that's great food for thought. Thank you.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Ultimately which ever one I sell will be going back into the pot for the mortgage, but I will definitely consider a new grinder in the longer run; cash is not my friend right now!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Whoever voted Fracino Cherub have you any thoughts why please?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

funinacup said:


> Which model of Giotto? Premium Plus or Evoluzione?


Evo v2! Sorry for the delay.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I have a novel idea. Make a shot, and keep the one which tastes the best!


That's would be a good way to do it, I'm sure you'd subconsciously favour one......the rocket


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Martin, it is a fallacy that the girl with the big bazookas gets the job


LOL.....you've obviously never met my boss.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You will get a lot more money for the rocket than you will for the cherub, if the mortgage is a consideration and both will make a decent shot of coffee, one just looks a whole lot more beautiful on the counter than the ugly other one ( let you decide). The Giotto is also rotary pump driven and has a lever actuated switch, with is handy for preinfusion and soft finishes to shots.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Both will make shots better than I am cable of, so if me I'd go for the best looking


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I am also a sucker for looks, I think I would have put the Cherub up for sale before the Rocket even arrived on my doorstep.

This is obviously completely disregarding and sensible money talk.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I am sure both machines can make respectable shots , IMO I think the rockets depreciation value will be a lot less than the cherub and its resale will be a lot easier when upgradeitis rears its head .

Rotary pump + tank/plumbed


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes Row said:


> Both will make shots better than I am cable of, so if me I'd go for the best looking


Me too. Where's that Nespresso?


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

You will now have Capsulape PM'ing you now you have said the N word


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

It was unacceptable. If I ruled the world I would make it illegal to own them. Punishable by death.


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## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

Well it must be really popular, on a scale that would astound. I live in the next village to where Nestle have their coffee pod factory and they have been building a new factory round the back for the past 18 months. It is staggering in size and I guess cost

Apparently this is where they produce for the whole world

Smells nice when they roast!


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Yes Row said:


> Well it must be really popular, on a scale that would astound. I live in the next village to where Nestle have their coffee pod factory and they have been building a new factory round the back for the past 18 months. It is staggering in size and I guess cost
> 
> Apparently this is where they produce for the whole world
> 
> Smells nice when they roast!


I'm not surprised by the scale! But doing this in the UK intrigues me; how can that make economic sense?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

jonc said:


> I'm not surprised by the scale! But doing this in the UK intrigues me; how can that make economic sense?


Quality over cost maybe!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

just as it's been mentioned, what would the punishment be for calling it nexpreso?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Entirely acceptable. Since it doesn't deserve a name - let alone an accurate one.


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