# R58 very noisy when switched on



## coffan

My R58 V2 (new) is really noisy when I switch it on in the morning. It is because of the heating. It is noisy too when the service boiler is not switched on. So it is related with the heating of the brew boiler. After a minute it doesn't make noises any longer and it is absolutely calm during all the day. Is this loud noise normal when switching on the R58?







This is not that less loud noise, the socalled "tea kettle noise" , because it is louder. And it is not the noise of the pump filling the boiler, I know that noise very well. Some loud noises kick in, then less loud kikcks, then nothing more after a minute. Thanks for any experience. Peter/coffan


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## anton78

Mine comes on about 5:30 in the morning, and it's not loud enough to wake me up, if that helps. If I do turn it on manually, it is fairly noisy, but I've never thought to question it as it stops pretty quickly. Can you post a video and we can compare notes? I suspect it's normal though.


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## coffan

Thank you, anton78. Tomorrow morning I will try to make a video. And yes, it stops rather quickly. Five or six kicks then less noise then nothing at all. But those first cracks are rather noisy.


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## anton78

Is it like this?https://vimeo.com/114601990


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## anton78

It also made a bigger bang just after I stopped recording. That'll be the mick jagger setting.


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## coffan

anton78 said:


> Is it like this?https://vimeo.com/114601990


Yes, yes exactly this noise!


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## anton78

S'ok then. Enjoy your coffee!


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## coffan

Thanks a lot! You saved my life. (At least my Christmas)


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## funinacup

Scale on the element??


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## coffan

Don't think so, mine is quite new. Bought it three weeks ago and I use only Nordic water with 10mg/l Calcium and 3.5 mg/l Magnesium. So it is not scale for sure.


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## funinacup

From a quick read It seems it could simply be thermal expansion of the boiler / heating element.


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## coffan

Interesting experience: today when I turned on the R58 the pump filled the boiler first. Then - NO NOISE. So I think this noise after turning on the R58 is related with the air in the boiler. Today there wasn't any air in the boiler because the pump filled it full with water thus there wasn't any noise.


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## mrsimba

Mine makes the same hissing popping & creaking sounds on start up, personal love it as it reminds me of the Terminator!!!


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## coffan

Today in the afternoon, after several hours the R58 had been switched off I turned it on. The noise just began when I had an idea: I pumped a little flush through the group. Only 1 Oz or less. And the noise stopped! So this is the air in the system, I am (almost) sure.


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## El carajillo

Is the vacuum valve sticking ?


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## coffan

I don't know. But there are several owner here with the same symptom. Thus it seems to be a normal phenomenon. At least I hope it is...


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## hotmetal

Not wishing to infer anything, or indeed tempt fate (I'm going to regret this) but mine has not ever made that noise. So far mine only makes the pump noise as it fills and then the 'cat snoring' ('tea kettle'?) noise as the boilers get their slices of power.

This might be stupid (I'm not super techy) but would a purge of the hot water arm maybe release a possible pocket of air? Also do you observe a few drips into the tray from the expansion valve outlet during the first few minutes of warm-up? You should do. If you get no drips but this noise instead, could it be a blocked expansion valve? Or maybe it's as simple as "some machines do that Sir".


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## coffan

Oh, that's a good news for you, maybe bad news to me. Maybe my machine is faulty? BTW mine is the V2 version. Hm... Are there anybody here with or without that noise in the video? Till now there are three of us having this noise after turning the R58 on and there is one lucky owner who has not any noise (of that kind).


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## coffan

I will check the drips!


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## coffan

Hotmetal, I checked that drip - no drip when the noise is coming. But if I give it a little flush, no more noise and the drips begin coming. So it is related with the expansion valve indeed. Hm...

Other owner's observations about this turn on noise/valve no drip issue?


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## hotmetal

Yeah it just occurred to me reading the thread earlier, that the most likely cause of those creaking noises would be an initial expansion as everything heats up. Mine doesn't make the noise but does drip from the silver 'disc' under the group which I know is the valve to allow the expanding water out. I thought there could be a correlation. Maybe your valve isn't allowing the expanding water to escape as it heats? The flush you are performing allows the water to escape via the group, thereby stopping the noise. The question is why it doesn't drip on its own, but appears to start doing so after you've opened the group. (Unless the drips you're seeing are from the bottom of the group exhaust rather than the expansion valve directly below?)

It would be interesting to know the drip/noise status of the other machines on here.


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## coffan

Otherwise the expansion valve functions well. Even during brewing a shot after some seconds (about ten) it begins to drip (what I don't like BTW, because it is showing the pressure is about 12 bar during the second half of the brewing, and this is too much). And after a shot it drips too. But on startap it does not. Now I've just made a probe: I turned the machine on: noises came, not any drip - one minute later drips were coming and there was no more noise. (Now I haven't made any flush).


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## coffan

* Hotmetal *can I ask (if you still read this topc) if you use your R58 plumbed or from its tank? (Maybe only the machines used by their reservoir make this noise, like mine).


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## Wilko

Hi coffan

I'm new, but I've just bought my machine on Wednesday of this week. I was reading your post prior to my visit to Bella Barista and made note to listen for the noises as I tested it whilst there. I can confirm that new out of the box it did make some noises but they were nothing like as loud as yours.

When I got it home and connected up I didn't bother reading the manual... And should have! I found it quite noisy similar to yours. I realised after reading that I'd not opened the steam valve on first fill and air was trapped make a lot of additional noise.

I switched off and emptied both boilers as far as it will let you and started again. Noises we're back to the normal expected noises. Might be worth a try before sending it off to get repaired or opening it up?


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## hotmetal

coffan said:


> * Hotmetal *can I ask (if you still read this topc) if you use your R58 plumbed or from its tank? (Maybe only the machines used by their reservoir make this noise, like mine).


Sorry mate only just read this. I use the reservoir. Plumbing in is too much hassle in my kitchen.

12 bar? Where are you getting that from? I've never seen more than 9.5 even when back flushing. I think something might be stuck, or your pump misadjusted (screw underneath?)


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## coffan

*Wilko, *when I primed the machine (filling the boilers) there was not any noise of that kind. (Only the pump noise of course). And: sometimes it happens that when I turn on the machine in the morning the pump fills some water into one of the boilers. NO NOISE in this case. So if you don't have the noise AFTER filling the boilers, your machine behaves the same way as mine: no noise after filling water into the boiler(s).

The noise of my machine comes when I turn on the machine and the pump does not fill any water into any boiler.

I can prevent the machine making this noise by making a short flush five seconds after I turned it on. yot's a really short flush, about two seconds long. I think this procedure makes something similar than the pump filling the boiler.


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## coffan

*Hotmetal, *thanks for the information - so this behavior is not because of the reservoir.

The other thing: I see 9 bar on the gauge of the pump continuously, too (on the right side manometer of the R58). But this pressure is not the same as the real pressure of the group! It shows the pressure the pump gives, but at the group the pressure can be higher.







This can happen because of the anti back flow valve and the expansion of the water during heating. I mesured the pressure of the group with a manometer on the portafilter. At the beginning of the brew it is a bit lower than indicated by the pump's gauge, but after about 10-12 seconds - when the first drop is coming out of the disk of the expansion valve - it begins to rise slowly! Then after 8-10 seconds it reaches about 12 bar. Then it stays there, the pressure does not rise any more. During this the manometer of the machine (actually the pressure gauge of the pump) is shoing 9 bar. Because the pump gives that 9 bar pressure continuously.

Here is something about it written not by my very bad English:

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/pressure-measuring-portafilter-rising-pressure


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## malling

The noise is of 99% chance, associated with air in the system, that air goes away as water in the boiler expand or if you flush it out of the system, I have heard multiple people experiencing the exact samt thing, and It is not just R58 owners suffering from it, it is also been noticed by V2B owners, as well as a few Duetto owners out there, and I have only ever heard it from people who ran these machines on tank. It goes away if you plump your machine in, and for most people if they keep the water level in the tank high!

I have the exact same problem, although the sound of mine, is a bit different, but it goes away if I make sure that the tank is more then 2/3 full at all time.

You do not need to empty the boilers entirely, just heat both boilers up, then turn it off, draw some water out of the hot water valve. And let the machine cool down. open the steam valve, and Turn it back on, it should fill the boilers and the noise should go away. And drawing a glass of water through the group should get rid of whatever air that might be left in the brew line.


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## coffan

*Malling, *yes, me too, I think it is some air bubble in the boiler. This sound is somehow similar to the sound my home heating system does when somehow a little air got somewhere in the pipes.

Maybe when the water cools down it loses some bulk and sucks some air. If it's under pressure because it is plumbed it cannot suck air because the water goes into the place of the lost bulk.

But this is only my own argument and I am absolutely far from any hidraulician knowledge.


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## malling

all water above 4c contract when it cools down and, expand when heated from 4c.


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## Doppio

Pull the brew lever to pre-infusion position and back before turning on the machine.

That will relese any air in the system and no more bang noise.


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## DavecUK

coffan said:


> Don't think so, mine is quite new. Bought it three weeks ago and I use only Nordic water with 10mg/l Calcium and 3.5 mg/l Magnesium. So it is not scale for sure.


Nope it's not, it's the result of a 1400W brew boiler element in a small 0.6l boiler.

P.S. aAs posted above adding some water to pressurise the brew boiler will minimise/eliminate this. It does not happen so much in other DB machines, because they don't use such high capacity elements for the boiler size.


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## wattbe

Hi there,

I'm new on here but I've owned an R58 for 18 months or so (2 to be precise! - one had a damaged panel and returned) and they both made that noise when starting up cold. From my experience it occurs when the machine is cold and the water in the brew boiler has contracted allowing a small amount of air in the boiler. When you turn the machine on, if you lift the brew lever for a second or two, the noise won't occur because you've started the pump momentarily and pressurised the boiler.

I was a bit concerned when I first heard the noise and contacted Rocket directly and they too confirmed that it's completely normal. Hope this provides some peace of mind.

All the best,

Ben


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## dan1502

Just lift the brew lever at any point before switching on. I either do it just before switching it on in the morning or when passing once it's gone cold such as the night before. You'll hear the pressure release.


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## PeterF

Sounds perfectly normal to me, just a coffee machine heating up!


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