# Weighing output.



## joffy (Sep 9, 2013)

I've had my Classic a while now and always made a 2oz double shot going by the markings on the shot glass.

I just got some scales trying to do it the proper way but can't get my head round it!

I grind 17g beans, so what weight should I aim for to get a double shot?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Anywhere from 21 - 34g. You'll need to play about and see what suits the beans you're using.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Don't think to it as getting a double shot

Think of working with a ratio

You put x coffee in (17g ) and get x coffee in weight out ( say 30-31g

Giving out a ratio 1:1.8 in this example

Taste

Adjust the output ..less or more depending on how you found the taste ..

Trying to marry this with a concept of a certain amount of volume ( double shot ) will not be helpful ...and be counter productive .


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/free-espresso-training-book

This is a good read on the subject, takes you through the thoughts behind it etc...


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## joffy (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks, very helpful.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Don't think to it as getting a double shot
> 
> Think of working with a ratio
> 
> ...


Are we back to the super super ristrestto shots again!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Sigh

1:1.6 ristretto ? 1;1.8 super ristretto ? Taste and adjust , taste and adjust ....

Perhaps suggest something tasty for the OP to try ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

1:2 = super duper ristretto?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

17g into 31 g brewing of 54% . Super ristretto ??????.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> 1:2 = super duper ristretto?


I'm with Jeebsy and Boots on the Ristretto classification. lower than 1.6 at least


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> I'm with Jeebsy and Boots on the Ristretto classification. lower than 1.6 at least


This means you would extract 22g from 17g of coffee....oh my god! Your talking about 22ml or less liquid in the double shot....how sour do you want it. These are ridiculous brew ratios. This is a complete bastardisation of the espresso shot and not a great way to advise newcomers. I realise that cheap grinders may often only be able to produce these chokers...but it's so wrong.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I advised a 17g dose 31 g out

I don't measure by volume









I advised taste and adjust based on how the op finds the balance of the shop.

Dave just offer a different opinion on what the op should do. Rather that what you think he shouldn't. Let him try . let him decide.

No right or wrong just preference s....


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> This means you would extract 22g from 17g of coffee....oh my god! Your talking about 22ml or less liquid in the double shot....how sour do you want it. These are ridiculous brew ratios. This is a complete bastardisation of the espresso shot and not a great way to advise newcomers. I realise that cheap grinders may often only be able to produce these chokers...but it's so wrong.


Not being funny but maybe you could post some advice that you consider would help the OP? Fair enough you don't agree but at least add to the discussion.

Spence


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Super ristretto surely is 1:1. For a dose of 17grm that would be 17grm out.

With a dose of 17grm with 22grm out is a ratio of 1:1.29

Generally accepted??







, ristretto is in the range of 1:1 - 1:1.8


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Super ristretto surely is 1:1. For a dose of 17grm that would be 17grm out.
> 
> With a dose of 17grm with 22grm out is a ratio of 1:1.29
> 
> ...


And 17g into 31?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Anyway its all semantics

Ristretto . super ristretto . or call it Keith .

In the end It's about how that tastes to someone.

If they like it good if they don't then adjust but at least they have an accurate measurement to adjust from...


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Can i have a Keith please?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Can i have a Keith please?


A single or a double Keith ?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> A single or a double Keith ?


Short Keith for me!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Actually will have a single Jeff, hold the milk!

Agreed on the above points though, do what tastes good for you.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jeff is very very very bitter


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> This means you would extract 22g from 17g of coffee....oh my god! Your talking about 22ml or less liquid in the double shot....how sour do you want it. These are ridiculous brew ratios. This is a complete bastardisation of the espresso shot and not a great way to advise newcomers. I realise that cheap grinders may often only be able to produce these chokers...but it's so wrong.


Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, all I can go on is what works for me.

I started out extracting 2oz volume from 17g weight and was getting bitter shots. I moved to weighing them and it improved dramatically.

For those that measure by weight 1.6 is a good ball park but be guided by taste, too sour extract more, too bitter extract less.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Short Keith for me!


That would be a Kei... then


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Jeff is very very very bitter


If you like these try a Jiff or is it a Ciff these days.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, all I can go on is what works for me.
> 
> For those that measure by weight 1.6 is a good ball park but be guided by taste, too sour extract more, too bitter extract less.


To avoid any confusion??







- its 1:1.6


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Been on the forum 8 months or so, and this conversation always come round every few months, more than lever v pump!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> Been on the forum 8 months or so, and this conversation always come round every few months, more than lever v pump!


Does, doesn't it - bit Groundhog Day. But it's a crucial issue for noobs going from thinking about volume extraction as opposed to weight ratio extraction.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> To avoid any confusion??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry yes....Cheers Mr Kid. so 17g in would equate to 27.2g out in weight.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Should make a sticky...

Sticky says, does what tastes good!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> Not being funny but maybe you could post some advice that you consider would help the OP? Fair enough you don't agree but at least add to the discussion.
> 
> Spence


I have done so many times. Start out at about 40-45g from around 18g coffee....then work it from there....up or down.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> I have done so many times. Start out at about 40-45g from around 18g coffee....then work it from there....up or down.


Ok thanks for that , i dont think the OP will have heard that from you as he is a newer member

He can now try and see what he prefers

Eveyone tastes are different and a brew ratio will reflect this

Doesn't matter if he prefers 18>45 or 17>31 , more important he tries to experience how they taste

Cheers


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> I have done so many times. Start out at about 40-45g from around 18g coffee....then work it from there....up or down.


I know, we all have Dave. I really think that there should be a set of basic guides in their own section that people can be pointed at when they first get on board. The problem at the moment is that the info is there it's just not (well it seems to not be anyway) that easy to find.

thanks for the update, it could end up being the post the helps the OP achieve coffee perfection.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2014)

On a weekend I like to have a couple off 22g shots. I usually go for 16g out.

Makes a great, great coffee.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

16g out seems very light?


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## Kofe (May 4, 2014)

So in a commercial environment where your making coffees for the masses what's an execptible ratio?

Because your not just making coffee based on your own preferences.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Alot is places will use a volumetric machine to maintain consistency.

But will dial in By taste and adjust as blends and beans change .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Try reading this as an approach to brewing espresso

http://www.jimseven.com/2014/04/30/reverse-engineering-espresso/


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Alot is places will use a volumetric machine to maintain consistency.
> 
> But will dial in By taste and adjust as blends and beans change .


Unless your starbucks, nero or the other one!


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

Kofe said:


> So in a commercial environment where your making coffees for the masses what's an execptible ratio?
> 
> Because your not just making coffee based on your own preferences.


A standard espresso is 1:2 so I'd go with that. Well trained baristas will sample shots throughout the day and adjust by taste. You wouldn't need o weigh every shot, just weigh one every hour or so, depending on footfall I guess.


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## joffy (Sep 9, 2013)

Still fine tuning the grind, but got a good result today making a latte, about 30g in 28secs and tasted good.


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