# Looking for a new smart grinder with portafilter holder



## mike123 (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum, I have been the owner of a Gaggia Classic espresso machine for a year now which I have had teamed up with a basic Judge Grinder as per the link below.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Judge-JEA42-Coffee-Bean-Grinder/dp/B0083T4EGQ

To be honest I am happy enough with the grinder, and have set out beyond the mission I wanted to achieve to basically produce coffee (in particular latte) on par with Starbucks. I've actually surpassed that in my opinion.

Other than some inconsistencies with measures, the only real problem I have with the judge is the mess and the time the whole process takes, from measuring out the beans to tidying it all away. I have therefore been looking into replacing with a grinder whereby you can grind direct into my portafilter.

Budget wise I am looking at around £100 - 150 ish

I have seen the following two products which appear to very similar?

Only differences appear to be that the Breville is only available in America and the sage is twice the price?

*Sage by Heston Blumenthal the Smart Grinder™ Coffee Grinder[x]*







*
**http://www.johnlewis.com/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-smart-grinder-coffee-grinder/p797304*

*
**Breville BCG800XL Smart Grinder[x]*

*
**http://www.brevilleusa.com/the-smart-grinder.html*

*
I have seen a review that the smart grinder is no good for espresso as you cannot get the grind fine enough? a shim was then designed to improve this and later models are supposedly an improvement. I guess however that it would be suitable for my needs? As previously in my post I love good coffee but I am not there measuring milligrams of grind or milk temperatures*





*
Please let me know your opinions or If you can recommend any other products I may be missing*

*
thanks*

*
Mike*


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have a Sage grinder. It is not my main grinder. I bought it on a whim really. I would say, without promoting the product, that if you want to buy new and spend less than £200 then there is nothing else out there. They are all shimmed now and mine grinds fine enough for my lever machine with loads of adjustment to spare. £200 is also nearly year old Mignon level. The 2 grinders are very different and cannot really be compared. I put a bean through the Mignon and then the Sage and look at the difference visually. The tastes were also at opposite ends of the spectrum! The sage is on the right and tasted a lot better strangely!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

A Burr grinder will be massive improvement on blade one . It Will deliver a better grind. I'm surprised your getting the blade find enough to make espresso. Are you by chance using the pressurised basket on the classic.if so an unpressurised basket would be required to pair with a decent burr grinder


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mike, when you can pm people (after 5 posts I think), pm me.I might have something interesting to tell you


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

can you enlighten me also david


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## mike123 (Nov 27, 2013)

Interesting stuff







thank you for all your replies. I do have the pressurised basket yeah. To be honest my current usual style of grinding is to put a double scoop of beans and blend on the 4 scoop setting (lowest it goes) until the light just hits fine. It is a very slow drip at that! (I've Descaled and back flushed my machine etc) I think you might be right in me needing the unpressurised basket. There is sometimes also a little pool of water when I take the portafilter out.

coffee tastes good. Undoubtedly not to some of you guys levels but I am happy enough with what I've been producing (but then always interested in improving!!) so long as I don't have to turn my processes into the precision of one of Walter whites cooks. I want it to be quick and relatively simple

The grinder for me obviously has to produce a decent espresso but I also want it to be clean and a quick process from beans to brewing without transferring the grind from containers etc

thanks


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

All new Sage Smart Grinders are now shimmed and grind fine enough for espresso


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## Saftlad (Nov 12, 2013)

Firstly a disclaimer - I haven't got a proper coffee machine yet so cannot comment on whether the grind is fine enough for espresso.

However, I would say that the measurements are consistent, ie I know that if I have it set on superfine with my HS beans and 2 measures set, then I get a consistent weight out as measured on scales.

Cranking the grinder up a bit, my coffee through the Aeropress tastes much better. Cranking it further up, my wife has asked if we have changed coffee as filter coffee tastes different (in a nice way).

In summary, I'm happy that I purchased it and just hope I'm still happy when I pair it with a Classic.

David, if there are any tricks or tips you might have for this grinder, I'd love to know too.

Thanks


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## mike123 (Nov 27, 2013)

Thank you







I was wondering if I should have posted this in the grinder specific forum after but seems to be getting plenty of interest. Thank you all again.

I've done some searching and it appears that Sage is actually a brand owned by Breville. The thing I find annoying is that you can actually pick up the breville version for approx £115 including postage from America (eBay) but they don't sell this in the UK. The sage is £200 for what appears to be the same product just with fresh marketing


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

there is a thread about 10 pages long with arguments for and against sage seemingly hiking the prices up v breville!

its in the coffee lounge, have a looky


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

mike123 said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't forget that along with the inevitable import duties and shipping any american model will also be a 110v version. Whereabouts are you based Mike I currently have a Sage coffee machine and Smart Grinder for review purposes and if you within easy striking distance you are more than welcome to come and have a look at it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mike123 said:


> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's £200 in the uk , you get a warranty with it, it's the right voltage .

I wouldn't drive yourself bonkers around the USA price . There aren't many, if any grinders around. £200 that do espresso and have that functionality , so its well priced. I haven't tried one but Glenn and dfk give opinions it is fit for pump and lever machine , so couple of good opinions there .

Only debate is how reliable it will be as new to market here , but the warranty should cover you .


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

Not sure why no-one has mentioned the Iberital MC2, £114 from Happy Donkey http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-iberital-mc2-auto.html. Happy with my second hand one, usually going for around £75 on this forum.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

CFo said:


> Not sure why no-one has mentioned the Iberital MC2, £114 from Happy Donkey http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0866-iberital-mc2-auto.html. Happy with my second hand one, usually going for around £75 on this forum.


Presumably because the portafilter holder on an MC2 is a joke and I have used quieter angle grinders.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Presumably because the portafilter holder on an MC2 is a joke and I have used quieter angle grinders.


Harsh................. I'didnt suggest the mc2 because it wasn't on his list of considerations and I presumed he d looked at them during his research .


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Harsh................. I'didnt suggest the mc2 because it wasn't on his list of considerations and I presumed he d looked at them during his research .


Well Martin that's just my perspective based on my own experiences of an MC2 and I feel justified in that opinion, the pf holder is a flimsy plastic affair and the noise levels are infamous, none of this detracts from the fact it is quite a capable little grinder, however, it in no way fits in with the OP wanting a "Smart" grinder, I am assuming here he means a good looking one as the standard MC2 isn't particularly good looking either.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

To be honest, unless you happen to live next to the most irate neighbours in the country, 30-40 seconds of grinder noise is nothing to write a grinder off because of, it certainly never really bothered me when I had one.

However, in the £200 range you can do a lot better.


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

The OP actually started out by saying "Budget wise I am looking at around £100 - 150 ish" which is why I thought he might want to consider the Iberital. Its not that noisy, and my PF has this thing on it called a handle, which I hold under the spout, just lightly rest on the holder.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

CFo said:


> The OP actually started out by saying "Budget wise I am looking at around £100 - 150 ish" which is why I thought he might want to consider the Iberital. Its not that noisy, and my PF has this thing on it called a handle, which I hold under the spout, just lightly rest on the holder.


When I had my MC2 the noise from using it would wake my ex up in the morning when I got up early, and as he asked for something with a pf holder I assume he wants a grinder with a functional rather than ornamental one. I am not denying the MC2 is a capable little grinder, however, it does have its shortcomings like the noise, the fact that it's pretty damn fugly too. As an entry level grinder it is great but there are other choices that may fit the OPs criteria better, particularly if he can stretch his budget a little.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The mc 2 has it draw backs , but at second hand prices , for someone wanting to dip their toe into the world of espresso , who are not confident enough to blow hundreds of £'s on gear for a hobby / obsession , it does a good job, it grinds fine enough to make espresso and a decent cup by all accounts.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

D_Evans said:


> To be honest, unless you happen to live next to the most irate neighbours in the country, 30-40 seconds of grinder noise is nothing to write a grinder off because of, it certainly never really bothered me when I had one.
> 
> However, in the £200 range you can do a lot better.


From my point of view this has never been a massive issue either. Yes it's loud, but I've never heard a grinder that is whisper quiet and it's running for a matter of seconds so for the money is a really good deal. Charlie's right though, the portafilter holder is only any good for giving a guide as to where to place your portafilter and nothing else. It's useless really.

Also the £114 price tag is exclusive of VAT and postage but I think it still sneak's in around the £150 mark.


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## mike123 (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for all your replies and discussion. I agree also with the breville not being fit for purpose in the uk and had planned to look at its power capabilities. So that leaves me at the sage basically filling all my requirement however it is the price tag holding me at the minute so having to have a think to justify. In the mean time I've ordered a non pressurised basket for my Gaggia as even a just fine grind with the judge can be the slowest drip coffee taking about 20 minutes for a double espresso sometimes which as long as my time must be putting a lot of pressure on the machine!

Thanks again for your time


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mike, something is going wrong somewhere. What you have described does not make sense at all. To extract coffee it is simply a question of passing water under bar pressure through a puck. Is your Judge grinder a burr or blade grinder?

If your pour is taking to long, then you need to adjust your grind and probably your tamp. Is there any forum member local to you who perhaps can pop over and help you with this?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

mike123 said:


> Thanks for all your replies and discussion. I agree also with the breville not being fit for purpose in the uk and had planned to look at its power capabilities. So that leaves me at the sage basically filling all my requirement however it is the price tag holding me at the minute so having to have a think to justify. In the mean time I've ordered a non pressurised basket for my Gaggia as even a just fine grind with the judge can be the slowest drip coffee taking about 20 minutes for a double espresso sometimes which as long as my time must be putting a lot of pressure on the machine!
> 
> Thanks again for your time


How many shots do you think you will be backing back to back ? I would hold on to see coffee chaps opinions not he sage before purchase ..


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dfk41 said:


> Mike, something is going wrong somewhere. What you have described does not make sense at all. To extract coffee it is simply a question of passing water under bar pressure through a puck. Is your Judge grinder a burr or blade grinder?
> 
> If your pour is taking to long, then you need to adjust your grind and probably your tamp. Is there any forum member local to you who perhaps can pop over and help you with this?


I think he means the whole process of producing an espresso is taking longer than a decent brewed/filter coffee. Unless of course you are Mark B , in which case probably not


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## mike123 (Nov 27, 2013)

Hi, your actually both right.

1. The process of getting the beans into the grinder, grind, transferring to a bowl, scooping them in to the portafilter is quite time consuming.

2. When I grind the beans fine I think my Gaggia classic struggles a bit with the pressurised basket to get through the fine grind and then through the pressurised hole? (I might be totally wrong with this theory!) it's made a bit worse when you have a larger quantity of coffee ie. slightly over a double measure. My theory is that the unpressurised basket would e an improvement? If I use a coarser grind it is much quicker. this also makes me think that my theory must have some basis if a decent grinder will be far superior. Judge is just a blade grinder

cheers


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I stand to be corrected, but IMHO there is no way a blade grinder can peripatetic for an espresso machine. The blade chops the bean and does nor grind it. It bruises the bean and ruins the taste. No wonder your extraction is up the wall! Try any basic burr grinder to get a big difference


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> I stand to be corrected, but IMHO there is no way a blade grinder can peripatetic for an espresso machine. The blade chops the bean and does nor grind it. It bruises the bean and ruins the taste. No wonder your extraction is up the wall! Try any basic burr grinder to get a big difference


You are correct , so you can sit down now







. More surprised of your use of the peripatetic in a post ( is it your word for the day







)

A blade grinder isn't going to make decent espresso , until you take this out of the equation , we can't really understand the other variables ( pressurised basket , dose , tamp , distribution ) that may be effecting your extractions .


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Its only ever a stop gap, but if you want to se the difference then buy a hand grinder like the hario skerton or porlex and get an unpressurised basket and. It will cost you about £50 in total so set you back buying a proper grinder, but it will demonstrate the difference to you.

With a pressurised basket in there you aren't going to get anywhere


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