# Gaggia single boiler machines - what is your "method"?



## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

So I have now revived my Gaggia Coffee Deluxe and I'm starting to learn its eccentricities.

Just fitted a silvia steam wand and spectacularly failed to do anything productive with the milk.

So, my current method is:


Wake up, switch on machine, basket in place.

Let it heat for 10-15 minutes.

Remove warmed PF.

Run a shot through the showerhead into an espresso cup.

Grind the beans (currently trying 5 on my Smart Grinder Pro) - 16gr beans seems to result in 14-15gr ground coffee (getting more accurate scales imminently).

Rake the pf with a paperclip.

Tamp, with some circular motions and seesawing first to try to improve consistency.

Wait for the green light following the "blank" shot.

Pull the espresso through. Measure time taken from switch on to 60gr espresso.


I'm getting 60gr in about 30 seconds, with only minimal crema. I'm using freshly roast (last Tuesday) yirgacheffe beans. I had similar results with less fresh beans from a market stall and from Pact.

How do you do your morning coffee? What is your method? I'd like to vary things to improve my espresso.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Sounds like a low dose for a Gaggia Classic standard double basket. I need around 18g to fill the basket but I'm not sure if a deluxe is a smaller basket. 30 seconds is a little on the long side, so perhaps ease off the grind slightly and/or the tamp pressure. Not keen on the see-saw / circular motions on the tamp - this shouldn't be necessary, just a straight smooth tamp downwards with a slight circular twist to polish off is all I do.

Are you sure the machine is getting up to the correct temperature? What about pressure - have you done the OPV mod?

I get tons of crema with my Gaggia classic with almost any beans I've tried, and I don't do anything special. Mid-shot, it tumbles out in big globules of crema into the glass - almost too much crema.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

Wow, I am on 15-18 on my Sage pro, are you getting a small layer of water on top of your puck when you remove the PF?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dose should be OK but your output is too high. Try for 2x your input.


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

jeebsy said:


> Dose should be OK but your output is too high. Try for 2x your input.


I thought 60ml/g is a good average for a double basket, no?

If so you wouldn't be able to fit 30g in the basket or do I have it wrong?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Nope. With an 18g dose you want 27-30g out depending on the beans and your preference.


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Nope. With an 18g dose you want 27-30g out depending on the beans and your preference.


Even for a double?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

qpop said:


> Even for a double?


Yep


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

The total weight of your shot output should be 1.6-2 times your input. 15g in => 25-30g output


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

Wow. I'll try 18g in and shoot for 36g in...26 seconds from switch on, right? If its coming out too quickly I'll need finer grinds or better tamping?


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## mremanxx (Dec 30, 2014)

It's nice to know I'm not the only one qpop who is having issues.

Is this why you always see people putting two glasses under the PF on youtube?

If so surely they are pulling 60ml from an 18g load?


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## Finley (Oct 19, 2014)

I use 18g > 36g out, I also flip the steam switch on for 3 seconds/off for 3 seconds right before a shot


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

qpop said:


> Wow. I'll try 18g in and shoot for 36g in...26 seconds from switch on, right? If its coming out too quickly I'll need finer grinds or better tamping?


18g dose in a standard Gaggia basket sounds on the high side to me, any more than 16g ended up squashing it into the shower screen (unless you have an 18g sized basket).

So I'd probably recommend trying 16g into anywhere between 27-32g and see how it tastes.


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

NJD1977 said:


> Sounds like a low dose for a Gaggia Classic standard double basket. I need around 18g to fill the basket but I'm not sure if a deluxe is a smaller basket. 30 seconds is a little on the long side, so perhaps ease off the grind slightly and/or the tamp pressure. Not keen on the see-saw / circular motions on the tamp - this shouldn't be necessary, just a straight smooth tamp downwards with a slight circular twist to polish off is all I do.
> 
> Are you sure the machine is getting up to the correct temperature? What about pressure - have you done the OPV mod?
> 
> I get tons of crema with my Gaggia classic with almost any beans I've tried, and I don't do anything special. Mid-shot, it tumbles out in big globules of crema into the glass - almost too much crema.


How would temperature effect the shot profile? Can't opv mod a coffee deluxe without replacing the opv as the standard isn't adjustable.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

qpop said:


> How would temperature effect the shot profile? Can't opv mod a coffee deluxe without replacing the opv as the standard isn't adjustable.


Well too high a temperature generally leads to a bitter low crema shot and too low a temperature leads to a sour low crema shot.


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## colm1989 (Nov 17, 2014)

I usually let it warm up for about 20 minutes with the portafilter in.

Remove portafilter and give it a quick wipe.

Run some water through the grouphead.

Grind 18g into the basket and tamp.

Flick the steam switch on for 10 seconds.

Flick it off and pull the shot.

18g in -> 36g out

Have been managing to pull reasonable shots fairly consistently using this method.


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## bean_there (Jan 9, 2015)

colm1989 said:


> Flick the steam switch on for 10 seconds.


What's the reasoning behind flicking the steam switch on for 10 (or 3) seconds?


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

I have found using the pid that the machine needs quite some time, about 3-5 minutes, to get to the correct temperature after the usual grouphead flush (temp surf) - always assuming the machine has been on for 30 minutes or more. I think the light is quite misleading on this and it can not be "trusted".

Most people will flush and then do the normal weight-grinding-tamping routine which takes 2 minutes max which are not enough to allow the machine to get back in temp even though the light turns on orange. I would wait around 5 minutes if possible.

The opposite stands after steaming. The machine needs 5-7 minutes to get back to brew temp.

A pid is needed to observe the above but it does not mean it is "desperately" needed. If you delay your process to the above time guidelines then thermal stability and hence shots consistency will certainly improve.


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

OK, so the experiments continue.

This morning I let the machine warm up for 15 minutes, ran a cup-full of water through the group head and allowed the boiler to reheat for five minutes.

I put 18g into the basket at the 5th setting on the grinder, and tamped. The basket fit comfortably into the group head so I must have an 18gr basket?

The extraction was much slower than previously (due to the increased amount of coffee) and I switched off at 36gr at around the 1 minute mark. The result was 43gr and again a weak extraction:








I will coarsen the grind to try and bring extraction time down.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

qpop said:


> I put 18g into the basket at the 5th setting on the grinder, and tamped. The basket fit comfortably into the group head so I must have an 18gr basket?


Once you've filled the basket put it into the machine then remove it straight away. If there's an imprint of the screw in your coffee there's too much in there. If there's not, you should be OK.



qpop said:


> The extraction was much slower than previously (due to the increased amount of coffee) and I switched off at 36gr at around the 1 minute mark. The result was 43gr and again a weak extraction


When you've got your target output pull the cup. If you let the dregs keep running you're just diluting your brew.


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Once you've filled the basket put it into the machine then remove it straight away. If there's an imprint of the screw in your coffee there's too much in there. If there's not, you should be OK.
> 
> When you've got your target output pull the cup. If you let the dregs keep running you're just diluting your brew.


Ah, that makes sense. I was incentivised not to soak the scales though! haha


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

My Classic came with pressurised filters which i never used. I immediately ordered single and double non pressurised baskets from Espresso services in Glasgow. I then ordered a naked pf and it came with the same size double basket. The point is I don't know if they are standard or indeed what the capacity is in g.

I have recently gradually increased my dose from 15g (what I have used for a couple of years). I got as far as 16g with HD Classic Italian (before fouling the shower screen) and then switched to Rave Italian Job. The same 16g dose is grinding finer and taking up less space in the basket so I can increase a bit more, but I don't think 18g will be possible. I've been aiming for 1:2 ratio. Fine tuning isn't complete yet - I don't like throwing shots down the sink and there's a limit to how many I can drink.

Most things need adjustment but if you want to avoid going round in circles and getting confused, only change one thing at a time. My target is 1:2 in around 27s. I was getting nearer 1:3, nice looking pour but bitter espresso and lots of overpowering crema.


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## gingerneil (Aug 21, 2014)

charris said:


> Most people will flush and then do the normal weight-grinding-tamping routine which takes 2 minutes max which are not enough to allow the machine to get back in temp even though the light turns on orange. I would wait around 5 minutes if possible.
> 
> The opposite stands after steaming. The machine needs 5-7 minutes to get back to brew temp.


Hmm. I find my PID gets back to the 102C setting I have within about 20 seconds of flushing about 50ml of water through the group head - nowhere near the 5 mins you suggest.

When moving back from steam, I flush water through and this brings the temp back down much more quickly. However, I don't generally do shot/steam/shot.


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## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

gingerneil said:


> Hmm. I find my PID gets back to the 102C setting I have within about 20 seconds of flushing about 50ml of water through the group head - nowhere near the 5 mins you suggest.
> 
> When moving back from steam, I flush water through and this brings the temp back down much more quickly. However, I don't generally do shot/steam/shot.


Hmmm, this is interesting.

How much does the temperature from from 102C after the flushing - mine goes to average 95C maybe even lower.

Also how long is the machine on before you do the flushing? Mine is easily on for an hour or more.

The other thing different is that I might be doing a bit more than 50ml but I do not think that it matters.

Is yours an aubers PID?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

5-7 minutes seems pretty excessive


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

OK, an update:

I've got the timings better, and can get approx. 32gr out for 16gr in in 30 seconds, but the espresso is pathetic looking - thin with little crema.

I'm starting to think that my machine is just ready to be put out to pasture. I wonder if it's not getting up to pressure and that's the issue with it?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Pic of said shot/crema?


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Pic of said shot/crema?


They all look very similar to the above pic. Crema covers the top of the shot but a very thin layer which dissipates within a few seconds.


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

So my first IMM coffee from Hasbean was delivered after my previous post, and I'm starting to think that maybe I've just had bad luck with beans.

16gr of the new coffee ground at setting 6 on Sage Smart Grinder Pro, extraction for 26 seconds and 40gr resulting weight (will make the grind finer to try and slow it down a tad) into a measuring glass yielded the following results:









Does that look reasonable, or am I still low on crema? Taste was better than previous efforts.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Forget about crema. Taste is king. Tighten is up a bit and you should be rocking.


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## Kman10 (Sep 3, 2014)

Most of my shots barely have crema but make amazing drinks


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