# Espresso extraction



## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

Hi all,

wanted to do this for quite a while and finally managed today to make an espresso extraction video. Really looking forward to getting some feedback on my technique!

Have been using Rave's Signature blend roasted on 23rd of December. 19 g in 29 g out in 29 seconds. Tasted bitter as hell, yuck!


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

You did leave the pf in the group head for quite a bit before starting the shot could be this making it bitter. Especially if your shots have been ok with these parameters till now

Having watched again I would say that looks likely you left it in for about 22 seconds before starting the shot seems very excessive


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Forget the WDT.


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## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Forget the WDT.


=

My grinder is quite a bit clumpy, especially with these beans, that's why i use WDT

Also, my coffee machine brew pressure is around 12 bars and maybe that's why I have to go very fine on grinding which causes more clumping then it should. The machine doesn't have an OPV valve unfortunately so can't reduce the brew pressure.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

+1 on the cool portafilter.

Youve tried without WDT?

Those beans are quite dark roast? They will have inherent bitterness. Try a quicker extraction 26-27 seconds, coarsen up the grind (it will be less clumpy).

Play with yield . Try 18 into 20; 18 into 25; 18 into 30 - which one taste best?

Are you using a VST basket - ie one thats dose specific?


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## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

I struggled dialling in a decent grind on Rave's Fudge and took me nearly 250g to get anywhere close. Ended up with a decent latte but the shot itself wasn't a fantastic drink.

I rang Rave in a bit of a flap, not knowing how it should taste before adding milk. Mr Roaster gave me the confidence to tinker with the parameters. He told me I was in the right ball park but not to be afraid to jig with the grind, extraction time or weight out.

I have now changed over to Rave's Signature. It was an eye opener for me how much difference one or two seconds extraction time or a small tweak on the grind or tamp pressure can make to final shot. You are probably closer than you think.

When you get something reasonably balanced then try adding the hot milk and see what you get. Its my understanding that Signature has been blended to punch through several ounces of steamed milk, so it may be a bit on the tough side as a stand alone espresso.

That's my two pennyworth from my limited experience. Best of luck.


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## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> +1 on the cool portafilter.
> 
> Youve tried without WDT?
> 
> ...


I am using a 18g VST

Just tried without WDT and the pour didn't look too bad.

19g in 22g out in 22 seconds and not so much bitterness but this time I could taste some sweetness too.

19g in 26g out in 24 seconds about the same as the other one but less sweetness.

What do you think about brewing at 12 bars instead of the recommended 9? I find it a bit frustrating that I can't adjust the pressure.


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## koahhe (Jun 27, 2013)

AliC said:


> I struggled dialling in a decent grind on Rave's Fudge and took me nearly 250g to get anywhere close. Ended up with a decent latte but the shot itself wasn't a fantastic drink.
> 
> I rang Rave in a bit of a flap, not knowing how it should taste before adding milk. Mr Roaster gave me the confidence to tinker with the parameters. He told me I was in the right ball park but not to be afraid to jig with the grind, extraction time or weight out.
> 
> ...


Can you share some parameters that give you a good shot with the Signature blend?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

AliC said:


> I struggled dialling in a decent grind on Rave's Fudge and took me nearly 250g to get anywhere close. Ended up with a decent latte but the shot itself wasn't a fantastic drink.
> 
> I rang Rave in a bit of a flap, not knowing how it should taste before adding milk. Mr Roaster gave me the confidence to tinker with the parameters. He told me I was in the right ball park but not to be afraid to jig with the grind, extraction time or weight out.
> 
> ...


Hi ALI

Fudge blend is really at it best in milk , I think from memory rave website suggests don't go there for espresso (edit - nope I'm wrong I even imagined it , or they took that off. )

AnywayMilk compliments it perfectly , I never really dug it as espresso .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> I think from memory rave website suggests don't go there for espresso (edit - nope I'm wrong I even imagined it , or they took that off. )


It did used to, they have taken it off....otherwise we both imagined it


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

koahhe said:


> I am using a 18g VST - so why 19g ?
> 
> Just tried without WDT and the pour didn't look too bad. - clumps not so bad then huh?
> 
> ...


ive added some thoughts


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## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

koahhe said:


> Can you share some parameters that give you a good shot with the Signature blend?


Will pull a couple of shots this morning and try and replicate. I've now got jewelers scales which makes life easier. All I can remember is the extraction time wasn't dead on 25 seconds. Once the kids are out I'll start tinkering.


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## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> I think from memory rave website suggests don't go there for espresso (edit - nope I'm wrong I even imagined it , or they took that off. )
> 
> AnywayMilk compliments it perfectly , I never really dug it as espresso .


That makes a lot of sense. It still took me a lot of jiggery pokery to get the balance right to get what was not a very lovely espresso out.

I also have a problem with getting a second opinion from the GLW. She does like her lattes quite lady-like, so even adding steamed milk to a double shot is a bit strong for her taste, so I need to either flood the drink with milk or change portafilters and run a single shot for her from the double spout thingumy.

If I can get some P&Q thus morning I'll try and post some photos.


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## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

This will just give an idea of what I have achieved given we have different grinders on different settings.

After allowing 20 mins for the machine to warm with pf in place:

1st shot: 16g coffee in; firm tamp; 25g out in 20 seconds - on the bitter side

2nd shot: 16g coffee in; very firm tamp; 26g coffee out in 25 seconds - much better and very drinkable with steamed milk

I didn't touch the grinder setting at all. Just firmed up the tamp. Not full body weight (!!) but very firm indeed, and it made an appreciable difference.

Here are some pics, just for the hell of it (please excuse autofocus not getting it quite right):

A double shot for me









and half-strength for Her Ladyship


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