# What's wrong with the Silvia?



## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

This runs a bit in parallel with another thread where problems concerning a retailer and broken Silvias have been raised repeatedly.

One of my colleagues is looking for a coffee machine - largely for espresso - and is seriously considering a Silvia, and has asked my opinion of it. I've little to tell him as I've never had hands-on use of one.

However, it seems that others' perspectives of the Silvia have changed since I first joined the forum a couple of years ago. It seemed at that time that the Sivia was seen as an aspirational machine by a lot of people. In the intervening period I've seen less and less mention of them, and, unfortunately, a lot of the mentions that I have seen have been about poor retailer support on broken one.

So what's the real take on them? Are they easy to break due to operator error? I know that there are temperature control issues on them, but are they an effective machine for espresso? Are there design faults or manufacturing weakenesses?

My own perspective is that they occupy a difficult sector of the market. Are they worth the premium price over a Classic? I think I'd be inclined to either save money by buying a Classic, or find the extra for a basic E-61 machine, but is there still a good case for my friend considering the Silvia?


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I'd save the money and go for a classic.

I was going to buy a Silvia once, purely based on the hype, but after seeing the Fracino machines, went down that route for a) morning latte/cappuccino, and the fact that i'm often making 3+ drinks at a time. However if I wanted just espresso in low volume, I'd definitely go for the classic.

If he does want to regularly do milk based drinks, convince him to up the money a bit fit a Fracino Piccino or Cherub.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I'm in the market for an espresso machine. When I started researching, I became completely sold on getting a Silvia. The more I've thought about it though and the more I've read, it seems that the Silvia is overpriced and somewhat dated. The Silvia's ≈£450; ≈£650 gets you a Fracino Cherub E61 clone with a 3000W element & a 2.3l boiler direct from a UK manufacturer with an excellent customer service reputation or a Fracino Piccino dual-boiler machine. I've just got a Mahlkonig vario & hasbean subscription & will keep using the Moka pot & cafetiere until I can afford a Fracino.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

Had mine 2 years and no problems what so ever. I would only change it to something like a Duetto. To me it oozes build quality. I think the only way you'd break it is if you mistreated i.e didn't refill the boiler. I rarely froth milk but when I do it's steam power always impresses. I don't regret buying a Silvia one bit and would buy one again tomorrow if I had the same budget as I don't really need a dual boiler.


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

I have no experience of my own with a Silvia, but it may be of some relevance to this discussion that many of us who own Classics here find ourselves replacing its steam wand with one from a Silvia, and needing to order unpressurized portafilters to replace what seems to be the currently stock pressurised one, and perhaps needing to open up the machine to adjust the output pressure. The Silvia's fresh-from-the-box experience would bypass at least the first two of those frustrations, I believe.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I agree with the above. Out of the box it's easier to use.

However, I've often thought about, but then discounted the idea of buying a Silvia to replace my 8 year old Classic, as there's not enough of a difference to warrant it.

My next machine will be in a different league, so until the Gaggia fails I will stick with it


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## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

Just a quick reply on this one...

I have a Silvia and Rachel now owns a classic (for when she's at uni). Having had them side-by-side for a while using the same grinder, water and beans I have to say I would always choose to use the Silvia. I find it much easier to get a consistent cup, much easier to froth on (stock wand on both) and it just feels more robust. I have to say that I may be biased as I've had the Silvia a lot longer, BUT what I've learnt on the Silvia helped massively with the Classic and I still didn't get on with it.


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

It's the same old cigar (pardon the pun) - do I, don't I, do I, don't I. Considering this forum is predominantly "Gaggia" by the list of topics, I would say that you are not going to get a very balanced view (my opinion only).

For what it is worth I had a Silvia, prior to my current machine, for 2 years and it is a workhorse. I never had any issues with temp stability and it was great at producing micro-foamed milk. Personally, I have had a Gaggia briefly and unless they have changed radically wouldn't go near another. A bit like the old Japanese car syndrome - gets you from A to B but wouldn't want to own one.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

CoffeeMagic said:


> Considering this forum is predominantly "Gaggia" by the list of topics, I would say that you are not going to get a very balanced view (my opinion only).


Actually, the replies have been pretty balanced, with the majority springing to the Silvia's defence.

What no-one seems to be addressing,though, is what are people doing wrong that so many seem to be breaking in the early months of ownership - see the threads complaining about M*E******o.

My mate isn't a coffee nut, but having seen my set-up, wants a good looking, easy-to-use set-up of his own. He's prepared to put a bit of effort into learning how to get the best from a machine and grinder - but not the disproportionate amount of time and effort that I do.

The answers that I'm getting here suggest that the Silvia may well suit him, but, from looking at some comments in other threads here, reliability may be an issue. Some have let me know that reliability hasn't been a problem for them, but I'd particularly like to hear from those who have had problem machines, or from repairers with experience of them.


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

From what I've heard the classic mistake newbies are making with the Silvia is forgetting to refill the boiler after steaming. Then switching the machine back on later with a dry boiler. I know because I've almost made this mistake myself several times.


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## sicknote (Sep 5, 2011)

I have an almost new boxed Silvia V2 that I gave up trying to pull a decent shot on. Perhaps this is down to me....but the temperature surfing required is a total joke.


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## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

sicknote said:


> I have an almost new boxed Silvia V2 that I gave up trying to pull a decent shot on. Perhaps this is down to me....but the temperature surfing required is a total joke.


Maybe it's just me, but I found that far worse on the classic.


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

I was fortunate enough to purchase a 3 month old Silvia for £200 about 4-5 years back... it was lovely, what a way to get onto proper coffee machines... I did a fair amount of reading before purchasing on how to use it but still had to fine tune a number of minor issues when using it... I almost went for a classic but for the same price it didn't make sense...

construction is top notch and she looked great... good size tank, easy to temp surf and good steam power... no problems with mine ever...the only reason I went for a Cherub is because it was an HX and I usually make 2 cappucini not espresso and grew impatient waiting for the boiler to heat up on Silvia...

looking at the price now I probably would have gone for the classic before stepping up to either of the Fracino's (down point of these being E61 copies so not able to add a brewhead temp mod)... there are a few Cherub's and Piccino's around on ebay but you have to know what to look for...

In terms of learning curves I think I would have been a bit intimidated with an HX / dual and unless you have some Barista training think you could end up getting frustrated with prosumer machines.. I still bang my head when using my Cherub, good days and bad days (mostly good though)...

for the money, the Fracino Piccino and Cherub are great and level wise I personally think Grinder > Classic/Silvia > Piccino/Cherub/Prosumer > Leva/Alex/Rocket (+loads)

Key things with the Silvia...

Use water pump button to ensure boiler is full before brewing

Leave on for about 20 minutes before using + have portafilter in place

Make espresso before steaming

120 seconds from boiler/heating light out to temp surf

Flush brewhead to remove most coffee grounds

Flush steam wand before steaming (prevent suckback, ensure dry steam)

Wipe wand after steaming + quick flush to remove any milk

Use water pump button after steaming to help cooling and to refill boiler

After machine been off for a few minutes, give steam wand knob a twist to ensure it is closed or you will end up with a pool of water on your counter


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## CoffeeMagic (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm inclined to suspect that some of the bad press the Silvia has received may be down to poor support from the seller. I know most people don't read the manual until something goes wrong - been there, done that









In the majority of cases, you get what you pay for and I would always go for the best that I can afford to give me the features that I want. So it may be prudent to compare the 2 against all required criteria and do it mathematically. Or there's always the toss of a coin


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I've never used a Silvia but that tiny drip tray would do my head in. The Classic driptray is too small too, but it looks to be at least double the size of the Silvia's.

That aside, to me the Silvia does seem better than the Classic but not enough to justify the price difference.


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## sicknote (Sep 5, 2011)

I can't remember buying a product and being so disappointed as I was with the Silvia. Imagine buying a £500 oven and having to keep opening and shutting the door to keep the correct temperature. Would that be acceptable? As a consumer, yes I feel shafted. In saying that tell your colleague I have one available and it comes highly recommended


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## crispy (Jun 6, 2011)

sorry to hear that sicknote... maybe they just aren't the same as they used to be... they are a very popular machine though so you will have no worries shifting it second hand...


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

Perhaps slightly off topic, but installing a PID on the Silvia would not only eliminate the temperature-surfing frustrations mentioned above, but open up a whole new world of satisfaction as you'll be able to brew each coffee at (whatever you choose as) its ideal temperature.

I went PID on my Classic somewhat over a year ago, and I think I am unlikely ever to want to own a non-PID machine again.

Bonus: the PID looks much less silly on a Silvia than on a Classic (http://auberins.com/images/Silvia%20new.jpg vs. http://www.auberins.com/images/gaggia.jpg)


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## MonkeyHarris (Dec 3, 2010)

ChiarasDad said:


> Perhaps slightly off topic, but installing a PID on the Silvia would not only eliminate the temperature-surfing frustrations mentioned above, but open up a whole new world of satisfaction as you'll be able to brew each coffee at (whatever you choose as) its ideal temperature.
> 
> I went PID on my Classic somewhat over a year ago, and I think I am unlikely ever to want to own a non-PID machine again.
> 
> Bonus: the PID looks much less silly on a Silvia than on a Classic (http://auberins.com/images/Silvia%20new.jpg vs. http://www.auberins.com/images/gaggia.jpg)


I was thinking of getting one for Xmas for my Silvia. Did you get yours from Auberins? I was wondering what the shipping/tax/time frame were like?


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

MonkeyHarris said:


> I was thinking of getting one for Xmas for my Silvia. Did you get yours from Auberins? I was wondering what the shipping/tax/time frame were like?


Also thinking of getting a PID from Auber, so interested to hear the answers to the above Q's







Shipping seems reasonable at around $20, it's import tax I'm concerned about. I have friends in the US that I could have it sent to but not sure I'd be able to stand the extra wait!


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

I did get mine from Auber - but I'm a US citizen and picked it up during a trip home, so I'm afraid I can't be of help regarding the import duties if it's shipped.

Installation (in the Classic; I imagine the Silvia version is not too different but I don't really know) is not tricky if you're reasonably handy and confident with ordinary tools. However be advised that the design (at least the Classic version) does route full mains voltage out through the little umbilical into the PID unit which you will wire up. You will want to set aside enough assembly time (under bright light) to be very thorough in making sure you have not let any stray wires touch the metal casing. Even then I was a bit nervous the first few times I switched it on.


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## Antibubble (Oct 23, 2011)

Hello everyone, first post - I found the Silvia a step up from my Classic. It took me about a week to adapt to the machine.

Some good advice from Chrispy, and interestingly, I have an almost identical routine.

I am quite surprised that there is such a large opinion that the differences are minimal and insufficient to warrant the extra money.

Having said that I bough mine some time ago; before the Silvia seemed to become suddenly so expensive.


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## a-j (Nov 6, 2011)

I just installed an Auber PID in my new Silvia. I ordered it on Wednesday night and it arrived the following Monday (I chose USPS express, which looked like the best speed/price ratio delivery option). I didn't have to pay any extra duty or VAT on arrival, but YMMV.

I just got the basic version (no steam control or pre-infusion) - the extra options look nice but add a lot to the price, and what I read on various forums suggested they probably weren't worth it.

It took just over 1 hour to install, looks nice on the machine, and has made a big difference to the espresso - no more temperature surfing means one less variable to control. The instructions are extremely detailed and Suyi (at auberins.com) responds very promptly to emails.

Tony


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

Can I ask how difficult was it to install, is it straight forward or do you need a degree in electronics to fit and operate it!

Regards

Mike 100


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## a-j (Nov 6, 2011)

Well, it's a bit harder than wiring a plug, but there is nothing technically really difficult - you just need a screwdriver, a 7mm socket spanner and some alcohol (to clean the case, not for drinking!). You do have to follow the instructions very carefully because you could seriously mess up if you get the wires the wrong way around. If you're comfortable with something like changing the hard disk in a PC it shouldn't be too bad. The fiddliest things are not electrical - there are a couple of screws to do up which are not so easy to get at.

I have copied the installation instructions here: http://ifile.it/kbc6mjq - so you can download them and decide if it's for you.

Tony


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## ChiarasDad (Mar 21, 2010)

Congratulations, a-j!

The Auber PID has made a huge difference to my enjoyment of my Gaggia Classic too. I can't imagine ever going back to non-PID.


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I am very happy with my Silvia in spite of a boiler replacement early in its life and it has performed faultlessly for 18 months. I did do a modification which helps greatly with the temp surfing, not a PID but a digital thermometer with sensor mounted on the boiler which means I can start brewing or steaming at exactly the right moment. Cost just a few quid and there is a thread I put up on the forum on how to do it.

I find there is a rather satisfying rhythm to making coffee with the Silvia.

1. Check reservoir and top up if required using filtered water

2. Switch on and allow to heat up for around 45 minutes, PF in place and mugs on top to warm.

3. Flush some water through the machine to start a heating cycle, grind, level and tamp coffee. When thermometer hits 105 C shortly after the element switches off, brew coffee.

4. Knock out PF, quick flush to clear grouphead and switch to steaming. When the thermometer hits 105 C start steaming, by starting to steam at this temp reading the element will stay on which speeds up the process and maintains steaming power.

5 Switch steaming off, flush the wand through and run the brew pump until a steady stream of water comes out of the grouphead ensuring the boiler is full again.

6. Repeat as required for my caffeine dependency requirements.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

ChiarasDad said:


> I went PID on my Classic somewhat over a year ago, and I think I am unlikely ever to want to own a non-PID machine again.
> 
> Bonus: the PID looks much less silly on a Silvia than on a Classic (http://auberins.com/images/Silvia%20new.jpg vs. http://www.auberins.com/images/gaggia.jpg)


 I think it looks less silly if you stick it on sideways like this:









I thoroughly recommend the Auberin PID. I got mine in about a week from ordering, very straightforward to fit if you take it slowly and it makes a huge difference to brewing.

I would suggest a Classic + PID is a better deal than a Silvia.


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

What kind of drinks does your mate want to make? If he's happy with drinks that don't require any steaming then he'd be good with a Silvia. If he wants milky drinks then he needs to be considering something with a dual boiler or HX as its a right ball ache with a single boiler machine.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I've had a PID Silvia for years, maybe 8. It transforms it from a demanding but capable machine into an absolute joy. I've just replaced it with an Expobar Leva Dual boiler and I don't think the end result in the cup is any better than the Silvia, although a few things about it make it much easier to use.

Prior to fitting the pid the Silvia was a pain in the arse


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