# Do I need an Espresso machine?



## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

I read somewhere that I can make espresso without a machine. Presumably the Italians could do this before the machines were invented?

Anybody able to provide the method as I would like to have a go.

Also do I have to buy specific beans as my Supermarket sells beans allegedly for this purpose?

If this subject has been discussed previously, kindly point me in the right direction.

Thanks.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

If you can find a way to force water at 9bar pressure through ground coffee then yes - this is possible

An example is the mypressi TWIST - which is not a machine, but a hand-held coffee maker using NO2 to create the pressure

There is also the handpresso which is worth exploring

Espresso beans are simply an indication of roast / purpose rather than type of bean


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

marbeaux said:


> I read somewhere that I can make espresso without a machine. Presumably the Italians could do this before the machines were invented?


I think before the machines were invented, they weren't really making espresso.

Many like the stove-top Moka espresso makers, but I think they burn the coffee (the water has to boil to pass through the coffee) and the aluminium taints the flavour.

Personally I think the Aeropress is by far the easiest way to make near-espresso coffee at home. It won't have the crema, but with good fresh beans it will taste much better than the average espresso you buy in a coffee shop.


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

Sorry, I obviously didn't explain myself properly. What I read was that a drinkable coffee similar to Espresso could be made without any 9 bar pressures. I also assumed the Italians had a system before the machines were available.

I think if and when I'm ready to buy a machine, I would buy a German job made in Thailand and very reasonably priced.


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

As far as I know, the italian coffee tradition (as we know it) does not pre-date the espresso machine - it's a lot newer than you might think, really. As mentioned, the stove-top pot or moka pot are both described as making espresso, although this is a bit misleading - they actually produce a short, intense coffee, but without the crema of espresso. Personally, I enjoy these a lot when they're done right - my favourite for a single serving is my Bialetti Mini Express. Apparently, moka pots are very popular in Italy and are commonplace in Italian homes.

The AeroPress is also described as making espresso, and again isn't. It also makes a tasty "short" drink, but not as strongly flavoured as a moka pot.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Bit of a disservice to our Italian cousins there, I think. :>)))

There have been coffee shops in Venice since the 1600s. And Espresso (ie made on the spot, individually, for the customer) pre-dates actual espresso machines by a long way Pavoni were making steam-powered machines in the 1900s, but it was the late 40's before the pump-powered Gaggias arrived.

I can vouch for the popularity of Moka pots in Italy - I've never been in an Italian home where they are not used, and every one of the (literally) dozens of Italian holiday apartments I've rented over the years has been equipped with at least one. That said, the Italians tend to use supermarket bought beans (Lavazza, Illy, etc) in their mokas, and it's only in recent years that I've noticed the presence of specialised roasters and shops selling fresh roast beans.

For my money, the Mokas make the closest that you'll get to espresso without a specialised espresso machine - particularly if you get a Bialetti Brikka - which differs from others in that it holds back the flow until a higher pressure develops and then releases the coffee in a quick splurge. Details here - although I'm sure that you'll find them elsewhere: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bialetti-Brikka-Espresso-Maker-cup/dp/B0000AN3QN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294010633&sr=8-1


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

3 questions:

1. Does it need to be portable?

2. Do you have access to a hot water source?

3. What is your budget?


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

Don't have a budget or need anything portable. In fact just asking but the replies are very interesting. Yes I have a hot water source but very limited space. I have seen suggestions that a milk frother may help towards making an imitation espresso plus the right beans?

My friend who lives in Sicily uses a stove top pot and will ask his favourite local coffee shop for some tips.

Pricewise, imported machines are too expensive for me but Severin makes them locally which I would consider should I decide to buy one.

.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

marbeaux said:


> Don't have a budget or need anything portable. In fact just asking but the replies are very interesting. Yes I have a hot water source but very limited space. I have seen suggestions that a milk frother may help towards making an imitation espresso plus the right beans?


There is no milk in an espresso. You can certainly froth milk to make a fake cappucino - these frothers work great but I'm sure people here will tell you that's not proper foam. Whether you prefer the results or an Aeropress or a Moka is a matter of taste; neither will give quite what you get from a proper espresso machine, but they are a much easier and cheaper way of making a good strong coffee.

As has been said, the Moka/Bialetti stove-top machines are almost universal in Italy, but there is also the Neapolitan stove-top coffee maker that works a little differently (more like a filter). I tried once in Italy to buy a cafetiere (French press). Literally impossible - no one knew what they were.


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

Sorry, I stand corrected about Espresso. I only drink cappucino with milk, in facts all my coffees are with milk.

It will be interesting to see what my Italian based friend comes up with,

I have a Bioletti already but prefer the French Press. Will have a look at the Neopolitan as suggested.


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

vintagecigarman said:


> Bit of a disservice to our Italian cousins there, I think. :>)))
> 
> There have been coffee shops in Venice since the 1600s. And Espresso (ie made on the spot, individually, for the customer) pre-dates actual espresso machines by a long way Pavoni were making steam-powered machines in the 1900s, but it was the late 40's before the pump-powered Gaggias arrived.
> 
> I can vouch for the popularity of Moka pots in Italy - I've never been in an Italian home where they are not used, and every one of the (literally) dozens of Italian holiday apartments I've rented over the years has been equipped with at least one. That said, the Italians tend to use supermarket bought beans (Lavazza, Illy, etc) in their mokas, and it's only in recent years that I've noticed the presence of specialised roasters and shops selling fresh roast beans.


Thanks for the corrections







- I don't think I intended to be as dismissive of the italian tradition as my previous post ended up sounding :/

I suspect part of the issue here is around what is called "espresso"? I'd only describe something as espresso if it was made under pressure, and anything that created that pressure (be it a pump or a mechanical system) I'd call a machine.

I've kind of fallen victim to taking the most simplistic interpretation of the italian tradition - espresso as we know it today. I was aware that Italy had a long tradition of coffee shops, but evidently my mind entirely blocked this out - sorry.

I'm aware coffee houses were common in the 17th/18th century across europe - but I had presumed these predated filtering and coffee here would have been in a similar style to greek/turkish/arabic coffee today?

I evidently need to do some more reading about the history of coffee - anyone got any recommendations?

(p.s. sorry for going off on a tangent here)


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

Totally agree that early Italian coffee was probably like modern Turkish etc coffee.

I've found very little detailed info on coffee history - most books cover it in a chapter or two, but in no great depth. 'Espresso' by Kenneth Davids deals with espresso quite well. (I particularly like his assertion that after the Gaggia pump was developed "all developments in espresso technology are mere refinements"!)

What is missing from information that I've seen is just how the espresso phenomenon spread in Italy. It seems that after the birth of modern espresso technology it spread like wildfire throughout the country and it obviously wasn't long before espresso (or espresso based beverages) became the absolute standard, with no alternatives on offer. Now we all know how much the Italians love up-to-date technology and fashion of any kind, but it seems an amazing culture shift that within a decade of their invention, espresso machines had spread to every tiny village coffee bar throughout the land. There's got to be some interesting research on that!

Again, apologies for going somewhat off-topic, but at the moment I don't think there's sufficient for a completely new thread on this issue.


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## RoloD (Oct 13, 2010)

vintagecigarman said:


> What is missing from information that I've seen is just how the espresso phenomenon spread in Italy. It seems that after the birth of modern espresso technology it spread like wildfire throughout the country and it obviously wasn't long before espresso (or espresso based beverages) became the absolute standard, with no alternatives on offer. Now we all know how much the Italians love up-to-date technology and fashion of any kind, but it seems an amazing culture shift that within a decade of their invention, espresso machines had spread to every tiny village coffee bar throughout the land. There's got to be some interesting research on that!


I agree. I've often wondered, as you ask above, how did they get every cafe to invest in very expensive machinery when the rest of the world were making coffee with much simpler methods. And also why did Italy, of all countries, get so obsessed with coffee? It's not as if they grow the stuff!


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## marbeaux (Oct 2, 2010)

And why did the Espresso making method change their coffee culture so quickly? Is it so much different to the coffee that they made before?

And how did UK Restaurants and Hotels make coffee before the machines came along?


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