# Eureka Mignon Mk2 - help me get this right



## Ted

Ok so it's arrived and firstly, it's built like a tank which is great.

I have a spare bag of beans that were roasted a few months back, I'll use them to dial it in with my new Silvia mk3.

Question is, where do I need to be on the dials as a starter so I'm not spending hours getting it right?

My tipple is a double shot espresso.


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## Gangstarrrrr

I don't think the numbers really correspond to much. Also beware dialling it in with old beans, every set of beans will need adjustment and even then as time goes on with the same bean, you may find yourself needing to make small adjustments.

That said, I'd personally weigh in a set dose and weigh the output, aiming for input weight x 1.6 in ~ 27 seconds. These are guidelines only.

Start with the grind setting where it is and pull a shot and see what weight you get and adjust accordingly. Alternatively some people advise taking the grinder to zero point - adjusting (while its running, no beans) to the point where the burrs just touch (you'll hear a chirruping sound) and backing off slightly. Grind some beans and pull a shot and weigh it as before.


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## urbanbumpkin

I'm not sure if this is the right way to do this but my Mignon is approx 1 and a half full turns away from being at it finest (burs touching)

I did it the hard way by trial and error


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## Ted

Gangstarrrrr said:


> I don't think the numbers really correspond to much. Also beware dialling it in with old beans, every set of beans will need adjustment and even then as time goes on with the same bean, you may find yourself needing to make small adjustments.
> 
> That said, I'd personally weigh in a set dose and weigh the output, aiming for input weight x 1.6 in ~ 27 seconds. These are guidelines only.
> 
> Start with the grind setting where it is and pull a shot and see what weight you get and adjust accordingly. Alternatively some people advise taking the grinder to zero point - adjusting (while its running, no beans) to the point where the burrs just touch (you'll hear a chirruping sound) and backing off slightly. Grind some beans and pull a shot and weigh it as before.


Ah, well I change my beans every month because I grab two bags from Hasbean each month - never two the same.

Are you saying when it comes to the weighing if I'm looking for around 15g in the basket (double shot), I should be putting in around 24g to grind?


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## Mrboots2u

Dosing with the silvia depends on your tastes , I tend to go for 16- 16.5 grams in the double basket . I think he is referring to the brew output ration. Instead of measuring the shots by volume 1-2 oz , he is measuring the shot by weight as it pours. So 15g in to deliver 25grams out .


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## Ted

Right I see, that makes sense.

Just waiting for the Silvia to arrive, that's my afternoon take care of - the luxuries of being the boss around here!


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## Mrboots2u

Ted said:


> Right I see, that makes sense.
> 
> Just waiting for the Silvia to arrive, that's my afternoon take care of - the luxuries of being the boss around here!


Have a good afternoon , I take it you have some small scales that you cup fit a cup on under the silvia


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## Ted

Indeed, I have a flat scale that measures in 0.001g increments.


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## Mrboots2u

Just the job, like I said dose is personal to taste and dependant on the taste you want to achieve and the type of bean being used ( I'm sure you know this already ) . I tended to verge between 16-17.5 g in the standard basket depending on what I was trying to achieve .

Enjoy


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## Ted

First problem.

Silivia chassis is twisted. Leading right leg is lifted about 4mm so it rocks, I can see a very slight crease on the face on the metal.

Going to try and work it back in place slightly.


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## Mrboots2u

Where did you get if from?


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## Mrboots2u

If I'd bought it new I wouldn't be accepting twisted stuff etc. I'd be contacting the retailer and taking pictures


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## Ted

Soufflé torch and a granite slate saved the day.


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## Ted

Mrboots2u said:


> If I'd bought it new I wouldn't be accepting twisted stuff etc. I'd be contacting the retailer and taking pictures


Well my old machine died so I just jumped in.

No damage on the box or the machine, it might even be a welding issue as the frame is welded and anodised - assuming anodised as the paint didn't bubble when I heated it.

I've made it flat with heat and brute force. It was marginal, just enough to make the machine rock slightly. No more thankfully.

Anyway, just blew the bag of over-priced Fortnum & Mason beans. Managed to get a 26 second pull with nice crema from ~16g of grinds.

I think with the fresh bags of Hasbean tomorrow I'll have it about right... it took a bag and over an hour to get there though!


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## The Systemic Kid

Ted said:


> Soufflé torch and a granite slate saved the day.


That made me smile - admire your resilience Ted.


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## glevum

Ted said:


> First problem.
> 
> Silivia chassis is twisted. Leading right leg is lifted about 4mm so it rocks, I can see a very slight crease on the face on the metal.
> 
> Going to try and work it back in place slightly.


Eeeek! this has to be a shipping issue, cant see this getting past Rancilio QC


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## Ted

glevum said:


> Eeeek! this has to be a shipping issue, cant see this getting past Rancilio QC


I should probably take a photo and email "my espresso Ltd", but I've used and 'fixed' the machine now.

As you can probably tell I'm impatient!


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## Ted

The Systemic Kid said:


> That made me smile - admire your resilience Ted.


The irony being I've yet to use the torch on a Soufflé!


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## urbanbumpkin

Ted said:


> The irony being I've yet to use the torch on a Soufflé!


As long as you don't use it on "my espresso ltd"


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## cold war kid

Ted said:


> Well my old machine died so I just jumped in.
> 
> No damage on the box or the machine, it might even be a welding issue as the frame is welded and anodised - assuming anodised as the paint didn't bubble when I heated it.
> 
> I've made it flat with heat and brute force. It was marginal, just enough to make the machine rock slightly. No more thankfully.
> 
> Anyway, just blew the bag of over-priced Fortnum & Mason beans. Managed to get a 26 second pull with nice crema from ~16g of grinds.
> 
> I think with the fresh bags of Hasbean tomorrow I'll have it about right... it took a bag and over an hour to get there though!


Isn't fortune and mason a wine merchant? I'm sure someone was telling me the other day that's were they order their wine from.


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## cold war kid

Sorry that should say Fortnum.


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## jeebsy

It's a big luxury goods shop, bit like a more tasteful Harrods from what I gather.


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## Ted

OK so I've tried to 16.5g in for 1.6x out.

25g in the glass for a double.

That can't be right?

Should it be 1.6x PER shot?


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## Wobin19

No, its right...how does it taste?


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## Ted

Wobin19 said:


> No, its right...how does it taste?


To be honest I didn't bother trying it because it barely made 1oz in a single shot glass.

I was expecting to see 2 shot glasses worth - like the 'norm'?


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## Ted

cold war kid said:


> Isn't fortune and mason a wine merchant? I'm sure someone was telling me the other day that's were they order their wine from.


Not really - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortnum_%26_Mason

For wine unless you're buying exclusives then it's simply overpriced. I wouldn't buy wine from them for the sake of buying wine.

For example a bottle of Hennessey Cognac I bought for £525 was £660 in Fortnums, that's quite the 'posh mark-up' I think you'll agree!

The tea which retails for around £8-10 is overrated too. I only tried the coffee out of interest, it's over-roasted and bitter. Reminds me a little of Starbucks actually, not a good thing.


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## Mrboots2u

Ted said:


> To be honest I didn't bother trying it because it barely made 1oz in a single shot glass.
> 
> I was expecting to see 2 shot glasses worth - like the 'norm'?


Gotta try it man , what's the worst that can happen? If you don't taste it , you can't adjust the taste and learn. 1 oz may be a little short ,but don't get hung up on chasing a volume , experiment and taste to see what you like !


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## Mrboots2u

Predictably they are trading on their name as a retailer,and will have beans with a shelf life of months ,like any other supermarket .


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## Ted

Mrboots2u said:


> Gotta try it man , what's the worst that can happen? If you don't taste it , you can't adjust the taste and learn. 1 oz may be a little short ,but don't get hung up on chasing a volume , experiment and taste to see what you like !


But my issue is the weight, 25g isn't a lot in a glass! Sure the volume can change, but at this weight range it's not enough to produce another shot in volume.

What I'm getting at - is the traditional '2 shots, 2 ounces' at 25-30 seconds method wrong?


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## Ted

Mrboots2u said:


> Predictably they are trading on their name as a retailer,and will have beans with a shelf life of months ,like any other supermarket .


Absolutely.

I asked the chap when the beans were roasted, all he had was a packing date. So he got me some beans from a bag that was packed a few weeks earlier.

The bag nearest the front of his storage area was dated January... I was only at the store a few weeks back.

£8 for 7+ month old beans. Nice.


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## 4085

Ted, I find all this volume thing complicated. My understanding is, if you weigh your beans in, then you expect a 60% output, so 16 gm in gives 25.6 gm out. Ok....I do not do that. I prefer to keep it simple stupid. I weigh in my grind, as I am using an L! and that is quite specific in that the lever will not handle a higher dose then 16.5 gms due to the restricted amount of water the group can hold. On a pump driven machine, as long as flick the switch press the button etc, then water is forced through the puck, so you can go with larger doses and larger outputs.

But, for about 16 gms in, you want to be collecting 1 ounce in about 25 to 30 seconds. If you are not, then if you keep your tamp to the same weight, then the variable is the fineness of your grind. if it is too fats, grind finer and vice versa.

Once you have cracked that, then try the weight thing, then you can also try larger dosing for a larger volume shot. Hope that makes sense! The worm screw adjustment on the Mignon is very sensitive, so when you are adjusting it, it is just a couple of mm's either way


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## Ted

There's no easy way of measuring the aerated volume of a liquid, so I think I'll leave volume well alone! Weight is certainly K.I.S.S.

However...

From what you're saying the 60% (1.6x) output makes coffee houses and the like wrong in what they're doing. They pump out 2 shots in to 2 glasses roughly producing 2 oz's (to the line).

This is the bit I can't get my head around, why are they all doing it wrong?


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## Ted

Ps: agreed on the Mignon being sensitive, only needs a very fine tweak on the knob!


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## 4085

Thisn is a forum. technically,a coffee house ought to have a trained person, but a lot of tem do not. A barista will set his machine up carefully, with a doser dispensing grinder that puts a set amount into the pf. It all looks very casual but they will know what they are doing. The New Wave coffee outlets go down the American route which is because the cup is so big (make mine a king size) that they have to put more coffee in to be able to taste it. As stated, a pump machine will produce a shot as long as you tell it to. If more grind is in the pf then technically it can produce a bigger shot.

This is the difference between the chains and independents. It is all about taste. personally, I like a single short shot, of around 20 mls in 2 ounces of milk which when steamed produces about a 5 to 6 ounce drink. If I wanted a larger drink, i double everything up!


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## coffeechap

Ta da! A eureka moment indeed, now that is the right question ted. Most coffee shops are getting it wrong! Go to a really good independent and ask for an espresso and I pretty much guarantee it will not be 2 fluid ounces but something shorter. Using weight is so simple and gives you a fantastic start point, so do it man taste the tiny shot that your head is telling you will not taste right!


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## Ted

Right, I will try it that way.

But ... you're making my morning espresso a very small drink (half the size as before)!









I'll have to reset everything though because I've got the grind, dose and tamp 'set' for a 27second 2oz espresso (2 shot glasses).


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## 4085

Ted, it will be worth it!


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## Ted

coffeechap said:


> Ta da! A eureka moment indeed


Pickle with your cheese, sir?


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## Ted

dfk41 said:


> Ted, it will be worth it!


Sounds it, I'm going to pull a double the traditional way.

Then I'll pull a fresh with the weighted way.

Taste them side-by-side.

Obviously there will be a bit of standing time for the traditional one so it's somewhat biased, but hey, it should give me a good idea of the difference!


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## Wando64

Certified Italian espresso directives are 7g ground for a 25ml coffee. I think the concept of who is right or wrong is pretty subjective. Let me ask a question; Do you generally like the espresso you are served in many Italian bars? Well, in all likelihood you have been served a single from a blend containing some Robusta. That works for me, thank you very much.


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## jeebsy

Ted said:


> There's no easy way of measuring the aerated volume of a liquid, so I think I'll leave volume well alone! Weight is certainly K.I.S.S.
> 
> However...
> 
> From what you're saying the 60% (1.6x) output makes coffee houses and the like wrong in what they're doing. They pump out 2 shots in to 2 glasses roughly producing 2 oz's (to the line).
> 
> This is the bit I can't get my head around, why are they all doing it wrong?


Pulling two single from a double measure perhaps?

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


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## 4085

jeebsy said:


> Pulling two single from a double measure perhaps?
> 
> Nope, cos on a lever like mine, you pull a short single from 16.5 gms. A standard single is 7 gm and a double 14 gms or thereabouts


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## Ted

Wando64 said:


> Certified Italian espresso directives are 7g ground for a 25ml coffee. I think the concept of who is right or wrong is pretty subjective. Let me ask a question; Do you generally like the espresso you are served in many Italian bars? Well, in all likelihood you have been served a single from a blend containing some Robusta. That works for me, thank you very much.


That explains the convention of 2 shots, 2 fluid oz's then! Italy versus the internet!









I'll still give both methods a try and see which my palette prefers.


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## Charliej

Ted said:


> That explains the convention of 2 shots, 2 fluid oz's then! Italy versus the internet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll still give both methods a try and see which my palette prefers.


I maybe a little confused here Ted but do you mean 2 shots of 1 Fl Oz each totalling 2 Fl Oz or 2 shots of "Fl Oz each.


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## Ted

Keeping this simple -

2 of these http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/ancillaries/products/has-bean-shot-glasses

With a shot up the to line that reads 1 on each glass.


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## forzajuve

Wando64 said:


> Do you generally like the espresso you are served in many Italian bars?


No.



Wando64 said:


> Well, in all likelihood you have been served a single from a blend containing some Robusta.


And that's why!


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## Wando64

forzajuve said:


> No.
> 
> And that's why!


LOL, is that why you left Italy?









The world is beautiful because we are all different. Some even prefer tea.

However, many of the coffee machines we use and love are designed with the Italian espresso in mind and supplied with baskets and portafilters to match.

There is nothing wrong with using them that way.

ForzaMilan


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## Ted

Bastard beans.

So the new beans from Hasbean are completely different to the previous I ran through the grinder! I've had to dial out the grind settings and timing quite a bit to get a decent shot in 25-30 seconds.

Essentially made 10 espressos to get 1 (double espresso) drink - I can see me going through bags of beans at a stupidly fast rate!

On a postive note, the coffee is tasting as good as it smells, the flavour is much brighter in the cup!


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## 4085

Ted, until you are really used to your kit, try and sick with one bean, otherwise you run the risk of having to go through all the motions of dialling it in again


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## Ted

dfk41 said:


> Ted, until you are really used to your kit, try and sick with one bean, otherwise you run the risk of having to go through all the motions of dialling it in again


Well Hasbean change the stock every week nearly!

Every time I go back each month to re-order, I can't, the beans I had (2 bags per month) are no longer available.

I'll have to go with a house blend such as their "Jailbreak" which is available all year round.


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## 4085

Ted, there are plenty of other roasters. Just because some on here think he is god, see the bigger picture.......


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## Ted

Any recommendations for a solid all year round bean?


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## 4085

Beans are seasonal, so they will vary through out the year. it is easier to think of a country. take Brazil as an example. the characteristics of many beans will be similar, but, to change your bean a few times a year is fine, compared to ordering different beans every time. Is your preference for lighter or darker roasted beans?


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## Ted

Well judging by my Hasbean orders, I quite like Brazilian coffee!

I try to edge away from darker roasts because when you approach the darker side of the roast beans start to lose their distinction.

Perhaps I should just stick with Brazil as in theory I'll be 'tuned' to their style?


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## jeebsy

Most of the Has Been stuff is in the same ballpark for me, just minor adjustments.


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## forzajuve

jeebsy said:


> Most of the Has Been stuff is in the same ballpark for me, just minor adjustments.


Agreed, especially with the Mignon. That should only need very minor adjustments once dialled in from bean to bean, usually about an 8th of a turn at most! Start where you left off with the previous bean and make adjustments from there, often its trying to move the adjuster as little as you possibly can.


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## jeebsy

Hasbean to Nude is the biggest variation I've had so far and that was 3/4 difference.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


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## 4085

I rang Rob at Rave ages ago, and we talked about the type of bean I enjoy. I then said I wanted continuation and for the past 4 months I have drunk Java Jampit. Long may it continue, but the point is, pick up the phone, tell him you are from the forum and have a natter!


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