# Confession time - I don't like HasBean beans...



## RoloD

I can't hold it back any longer, as much as I try, I've never really enjoyed a cup from HasBean beans.

I love the idea of the company and Steve's bonkers enthusiasm, but I find their beans too low roast - fruity and sour when I want dark, bitter and chocolatey with a kick. Some HasBean blends I have found throughly unpleasant. Yes, I like my espresso Italian style and I've stopped trying to fight it. Drury Café Sienna is my current favourite.

It is not just down to the lack of my barista skills as I am generally disapppointed when I have HasBean blends in cafés (with the odd exception like Fernadez and Wells' blend). I have also had some great coffee from Square Mile, rich and complex, but for everyday drinking I return to my favourite Italian blends.

Am I alone here with this heretical view?

Will I be asked to leave?


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## MikeHag




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## lookseehear

The automatic response from most of us will be 'have you tried Blake' as that's supposed to be Steve's old school, richer darker blend. There really isn't a problem with you preferring coffee a way that Hasbean don't roast, it isn't something to be ashamed about and we definitely won't ask you to leave!

My opinion (probably not accurate) is that dark espresso roasts were born out of trying to make cheap coffee taste ok. From that the italian espresso culture was created and it became something that everyone tried to emulate. The 'third wave' roasters like hasbean offer an alternative and a lot of people can be snobbish about how the coffee should taste, but ultimately it's still just a preference.

Ultimately, if you've tried it and don't like it, don't beat yourself up over it, there are plenty of roasters still doing dark blends even if they are out of fashion at the moment!


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## MikeHag

I think dark roasts are making a comeback


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## RoloD

lookseehear said:


> The automatic response from most of us will be 'have you tried Blake' as that's supposed to be Steve's old school, richer darker blend...


 I tried Blake v2. It was the most unpleasant coffee I've had in my life. Like muddy stale christmas cake. I actually gave away the rest of the packet (on this forum) as otherwise it would have gone straight in the bin.

Yes, the notion that dark roasts were born out of making cheap coffee taste OK is quite credible, but as I said on another thread here, it's like saying curry was invented to cover the taste of rotting meat. It might well be true, but I still like it.

You are right, it simply comes down to personal preference. I respect the fact that the 'third wave' roasters are producing coffee with a wide range of different and complex flavours. I happen to like the way the Italians do it - and the fact they invented the espresso and all the technology that creates it should stand for something.

At least I tried.

Thank you for not asking me to leave the room.


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## garydyke1

Blake V3 is delicious and I dont know anyone that didnt like it


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## stavros

I must admit, when I first started reading up about the likes of Hasbean and the other popular roasters amongst us, my first reaction was that they were trying to reinvent the wheel and market it as trendy. Being a bit of an Italophile (blame Channel 4's football coverage in the 90s) I had bought my Gaggia Classic to make classic espresso like I'd enjoyed in Rome. As much for culture as for taste I suppose. Dark, blended with a little robusta, traditional. I had had Lavazza, Illy, Sagefredo and the rest of them. Nice enough I thought.

When I bought my new grinder however, I also bought a bag of the mark 2 Jailbreak from Hasbean. Like when you reluctantly watch a film everyone is talking about, I almost didn't want to like it. I couldn't hide it though, it was probably one of the finest coffees I'd ever tasted, and certainly the nicest espresso I'd ever made at that point. Now I'm much more consistent with my shots, this first cup of Jailbreak is still the most memorable cup I've had in this short coffee journey. My illy beans went stale (staler?!) and unused in a jar in the cupboard. I have had freshly roasted Italian beans since of course, but I personally have found the ones I've tried a bit one dimensional. This is my taste of course. If some are heartily recommended on here I would definitely give them a whirl (this site is a great resource for that). This coffee lark is not just a pain on the wallet, it's all a discovery of taste as well.


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## CoffeeMagic

I'm afraid I can't judge Steve's roasted coffee as I roast all my own. However, I have to agree with you on the subject of light roasts. There are some positive aspects to roasting light - e.g. Complexity, reduced weight loss, acidity. I would say there are more pleasing aspects to darker roasts - richness, depth, mouthfeel.

My own preference is for med to med-dark, which from my perspective appears to suit my 'potential' customers tastes. It may be classed as 'old school' or not in keeping with 3rd wave, but at the end of the day it is all about what people want and are prepared to spend their money on.


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## Monkey_Devil

String him up!









I only usually buy from hasbean, partly because I like the Blake and jailbreak blends, but also because delivery is just insanely quick. I ordered from James gourmet once and waited for ages.

Although i'm sure you've given up on hasbean, if you do go there again, try breakfast bomb 







its very rich and chocolaty. I actually went through a phase of having Blake for espresso and BB for my morning latte because it was like a meal haha. So sweet and satisfying.

I think hasbean is far more suited to the brewed coffee enthusiasts. Lighter roasts usually mean more delicate and complex flavors, which I find are usually best brewed in chemex or aeropress etc. This of course widens the market from the relativey small number of us willing to spend lots of money on machines and grinders etc.

Anyone want to recommend roasters witha customer service and delivery speed to match Steve's? I'd like to try some others


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## MikeHag

Seems like the above comments are focusing mainly on espresso blends. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

Espresso-wise, whilst I have to admit jailbreak isn't my fave, I don't put that down to the roast so much as the choice of beans in the blend. For example, there's 40% Finca Argentina Washed in Jailbreak Mk5 and I find it incredibly bright and lemony... too much for my own espresso preferences. However, Has Bean's Finca de Licho and their Musasa Red Bourbon were both stunning as espresso.

As for brewed coffees, I think Has Bean are tough to beat (although my favourite coffee ever was the Honduras Santa Marta Pacamara from Hands On recently). But even with these, I don't see the roast as light or cinnamon. I'd say it's medium.

Personally I wouldn't say a particular roaster's offering isn't to my taste unless I've tried a large variety of what they do, with different brew methods, and don't like any of it. Maybe you've done that







Each product needs to be judged on its individual merits.

But equally, I wouldn't tell anyone else how to think


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## RoloD

Yes indeed, I was focussing on espresso because that's what I mainly drink. And I really don't want to knock Steve's company because for enthusiasm and service it's second to none. I want to like then. I do however, find there is a certain approach to coffee - and I've tried 13 different blends from HasBean over the past year - my favourite was the Christmas Espresso) that doesn't appeal to my palate. Square Mile, on the other hand, I've found much more interesting, even though they are also in the 'third wave roasters' zone. Their beans do, however, seem overpriced compared to HasBean.

But I'll keep on trying and experiementing as I know taste buds change and develop. And just because most espresso served in the UK is old-style (i.e. Italian style) and crap doesn't mean that style in itself is wrong or superceded.

Of course I'm also partly playing devil's advocate...


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## stavros

It's a fair point. I think Hasbean's enthusiasm is infectious, but the bottom line shoudl always be the taste of your last cup. What darker roasted Italian style beans would you recommend?


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## RoloD

stavros said:


> It's a fair point. I think Hasbean's enthusiasm is infectious, but the bottom line shoudl always be the taste of your last cup. What darker roasted Italian style beans would you recommend?


 Currently I'm drinking Drury Café Sienna Espresso - thick, chocolately, aromatic with a a real punch. The saleswoman in the Drury shop claims she takes a suitcase of out to her family in Southern Italy each year. Of course, that could just be sales talk.

Just to show my mind remains open I've just ordered a pack of Blake 3 and one of Breakfast Bomb from Steve.dark,


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## garydyke1

RoloD said:


> Currently I'm drinking Drury Café Sienna Espresso - thick, chocolately, aromatic with a a real punch. The saleswoman in the Drury shop claims she takes a suitcase of out to her family in Southern Italy each year. Of course, that could just be sales talk.
> 
> Just to show my mind remains open I've just ordered a pack of Blake 3 and one of Breakfast Bomb from Steve.dark,


Try Blake v3 using these parameters @ 94 deg. 15g in a VST extracting 23g-24g in 28 seconds. Stop it at 25 seconds if acidity isnt your thing


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## chipbutty

I roast my own beans but I have previously bought a lot of roasted from Hasbean. Recently I tried a couple of roasts from Hasbean, one was described as having key lime pie acidity. It tasted limey alright, like someone had squeezed lime juice into my mug! It was roasted far too lightly in my opinion, barely out of first crack, but Steve said he loved it that way. I found it undrinkable. It's a great shop though and I plan to buy a Hario Vacpot from there soon.

Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk


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## MonkeyHarris

I agree. I have ordered from them several times but for my taste I've always found the lighter roasts far too acidic. The service and packaging are faultless but for my taste I prefer the darker sweeter roasts. So for me it's coffeebeanshop all the way. Their service is equally fast (always next day if ordered before 2pm) so hats off to both establishments.

It's personal taste so don't worry about it, you'll probably change your mind at somepoint in the future. I used to love white wine, then changed to red, then back to white and now I only drink champagne


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## espresso_a_day

I also must admit to not liking any of the Hasbean beans I've tried (even though I'd like to like them). I agree they are a great shop.

+1 for coffeebeanshop! I've just got my first fortnightly promotion set from them last week and the two I've tried, their Roaster's Blend and the Rwanda A Grade were both very nice -- not too dark but not too light either. And v fast service as well.

The only problem I see .... going on their website now I don't see the Rwanda A Grade anywhere -- so it seems the fortnightly promotions are not available once the promotion is over.


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## JohnnieWalker

I had a day out in Lancaster with my family yesterday, beautiful town.

We stopped for lunch at the Williamson Park Cafe and noticed that their coffee was supplied by J Atkinsons of Lancaster.

I ordered a coffee and wasn't impressed with what I got









Not letting that put me off, I visited J Atkinsons shop, wow! Impressive, it's an amazing old shop.

After chatting with the lovely shop assistant who showed me the beans and let me smell them, I purchased a bag of Lancaster Blend and Lancaster Old Blend.

I had cup of Lancaster Old Blend this morning as I'd just finished my bag of north coast roast from hands-on.

I was pleased with the result, I'm still no good at describing coffee, but I can certainly recommend J Atkinsons!

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=53.821642,-3.025962


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## MikeHag

I'd love to get down to J Atkinsons. The roastery and the coffee shop (The Music Room) look great, and they have been winning various prizes lately (eg Beverage Standards Association). Ian has been in Sumatra lately and posted some fantastic pics on twitter (@coffeehopper)


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## Edwin

+3 for coffeebeanshop!

Very impressed indeed by their espresso blend and Guatemalan El Fogon.

I too have a big problem with acidic/"bright" flavours


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## RoloD

Edwin said:


> I too have a big problem with acidic/"bright" flavours


It's good to see fellow dissenters coming out of the closet!

There does seem to be an assumption that serious coffee drinkers have all embraced the 'third wave' roasters enthusiastically but, increasingly, friends are admitting to me they prefer the old style espresso. Now you may well say they need to 'develop their palates' - but maybe they are quite happy with their palates the way they are.

Anyway, Blake Mk3 and Breakfast Bomb arrived this morning. I shall give them a go.


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## ChiarasDad

I'm fond of the less roasty styles myself, but if you like them a bit darker, have a look at Two Day Coffee. They tend to roast on the darker side, and they sell in quantities as small as 100g so you can try them out without a full 250g commitment.


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## RoloD

I've come to the conclusion the espresso coffee world divides into those who think the Italians basically got it right and those who don't.

And a lot of this comes down to basic personal taste - to put it very simply, I prefer bitter to sour. I put sugar in tea, not in coffee - many prefer it the other way round.


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## Shuttergirl

I know where you're coming from Rolo - I lived in in the south of France for several years and became spoiled because it was damn near impossible to have a 'bad' coffee, either at someone's home or in bars/cafés. It wasn't usually exotic, fruity or complex, but always reliably tasty.

Coming back to England, at the time, was a bit of a shock. This was even pre-Starbucks et al days, when coffee in cafés mainly seemed to come out of vending type machines. *makes sign of cross*

I don't have a wildly adventurous palate for everyday coffee & Has Beans Indian Monsoon Malabar is one of my favourite dailies. It would prob be my bean of choice to serve to dinner guests.


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## cafeco

I think it's good to see that people are sharing an honest opinion. I think it's easy to get swept up with Steves enthusiasm, I tried one of the 'in my mugs' from a few weeks ago, I forget what it's called, flavors were 'chocolate and beef stock but in a nice way'. For me the stockyness was too much and I didnt like it.

But then, there's no right or wrong answer. I've tried many hasbean roasts, some I liked - some I didnt. I'll still continue to buy because I love trying new beans.

RoloD, are you the person I think you are?


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## RoloD

cafeco said:


> RoloD, are you the person I think you are?


It depends who you think I am!


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## cafeco

RoloD said:


> It depends who you think I am!


You have a unique accent?


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## RoloD

cafeco said:


> You have a unique accent?


 Hmmm - don't think so.

If I have an accent, it's sort of London-ish


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## cafeco

RoloD said:


> Hmmm - don't think so.
> 
> If I have an accent, it's sort of London-ish


Ok not who I thought then


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## bobbytoad

Shuttergirl said:


> I don't have a wildly adventurous palate for everyday coffee & Has Beans Indian Monsoon Malabar is one of my favourite dailies.


Wow every one seems to sing the praises of the MM - bought some from HB and thought it was a dreadful burnt concoction with no discernable - akin to the bagged coffee Starbucks sell.

On the other hand had some Sumatran Raj Batok (spelt something like that) was spectacular a dark roast with loads of complex flavours which came through. The current Sumatran is better IMO than the MM I bought from them but not worth buying again.


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## SlowRoast

I'm yet to try any beans at home except what I've been drinking today. I'm tempted to try HasBean as I've read a lot on this forum about them, but this thread put me off a bit. I was a fan of medium roast, i.e. what we use at Costa but the dark Italian Izzo Verde roast is beautiful, hint of earthiness I think. My palate knows a good coffee, but I'm still trying to split the flavours apart! I haven't been privileged enough to go to Italy for a good coffee yet.

But Costa's roast tastes sour and acidic to me now for some reason. But I'll have a look at Hasbean sometime I think.


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## MonkeyHarris

Monsoon Malabar is definitely a marmite thing. Try it from a different roaster they can be very different.


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## bobbytoad

Slowroast, dont read this thread wrong, Hasbean are a great supplier, fast delivery great pre and post sales advice. What is being said is that their style of roasting - on the light side isnt to everyones taste, there is no doubting the quality of their products on the whole is great.

BTW do beans for espresso need to be dark roasted inorder not to taste sour?


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## SlowRoast

Ah right, I see. I'll give them a go, but like you say, lighter roasts probably won't suit. I've just finished a latte I made with the dark beans I've got, so so much more enjoyable than medium!

I can't say anything on that, but I would think a dark roast is better. I'm yet to drink a dark roasted espresso shot but that might be something for after work tomorrow.


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## ChiarasDad

bobbytoad, beans for espresso do not need to be roasted dark in order not to taste sour. I generally use more medium-roasted beans (not really liking that dark, roast-y taste in my espresso). They are not sour at all, provided I have good beans and have my temperature, grind, and other parameters properly in order.


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## Ian_G

I too have found it impossible to like hasbean coffee, or any British Roaster for that matter. I wish I could because I really feel as though I'm missing out. I've got good equipment, so it's probably my skill that's letting me down. But having said that I have no problems with, and really enjoy, Italian coffee. My favourite being Izzo Gold. Of course I don't drink espresso, so all that subtlety is lost usually when you add milk. Am I a phillistine? probably.


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## RoloD

Monkey_Devil said:


> Although i'm sure you've given up on hasbean, if you do go there again, try breakfast bomb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its very rich and chocolaty. I actually went through a phase of having Blake for espresso and BB for my morning latte because it was like a meal haha. So sweet and satisfying.


UPDATE: I have to say I really like Breakfast Bomb and I think it deserves to promoted not just on its drug content but on its taste. I just wish Steve did more darker roasts like this one.

Blake v3? Certainly an improvement on Blake v2 (which I found literally undrinkable) but not one I would buy again.


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## Monkey_Devil

I agree. I understand that his remit for the blend was to make it a big, explosive wake up, but I do think it has merit for its flavor, and how appropriate that flavor is for the first coffee of the day









Just got the new Blake Mk 4, so looking forward to experimenting with it. Just had my morning latte with it and it still retains that traditional big flavor. Will have to see how it is as espresso later


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## fatboyslim

Has Bean's ethos to source quality beans from quality origins that make for great coffee drinking has gained the attention of mass manufacturers to compare their own single origin blends against some of his single origin beans.

Surely this is reason enough to want to buy coffee from him. I've found his beans are different to dark roasted italian style espresso beans but this is him representing Britain using quality arabica which should be roasted lighter than rubusta because they have a greater depth of flavour.

Also try extracting a shot hotter than normal temperatures for jokes.


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## garydyke1

fatboyslim said:


> Also try extracting a shot hotter than normal temperatures for jokes.


Can you explain?


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## fatboyslim

gary - I accidentally pulled a shot after cleaning my steam wand, which should produce a burnt tasting shot.

But with jailbreak blend I actually didn't notice and it was the nicest shot I've made of that coffee.

Might have been fluke but worth a try.


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## rodabod

bobbytoad said:


> Wow every one seems to sing the praises of the MM - bought some from HB and thought it was a dreadful burnt concoction with no discernable - akin to the bagged coffee Starbucks sell.


I found exactly the same with their Indian beans; over roasted, resulting in a bitter and one-dimensional taste. Like a bitter Nescafe!

On the other hand, one of the best beans I've ever tasted came from Hasbean. That was their Nicaraguan Limoncillo. This was unique, and had an almost caramel-like taste and low acidity (contrary to what they and other reviewers said anyway).

I agree that their roasts tend towards medium, possibly as a compromise for customers who want to try either cafetiere/drip or espresso, but some are darker than others depending on what suits. Thus O think people will need to experiment. For the more sour espresso results, I'd try to work with it by overextracting it a little, or try a different method altogether.


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## fatboyslim

Anyone tried Has Bean Christmas Espresso Blend?


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## nekromantik

I just bought some Jailbreak! These will be my first fresh beans.

Hopefully I dont waste too much when im trying to dial in my grind for my Porlex.


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## DaveS

nekromantik said:


> I just bought some Jailbreak! These will be my first fresh beans.
> 
> Hopefully I dont waste too much when im trying to dial in my grind for my Porlex.


I have a Porlex, For espresso, I have only ever used 3 or 4 "clicks" (from completely tightened nut). I have found that older beans (i.e, in desperate times from the supermarket) need grinding finer (3 clicks) and fresher (HasBean etc) not quite so fine so 4 usually does the job... Recommended you leave your beans a few days before opening though, all the beans i have bought from HasBean have needed at least 3 or 4 days from roasting to calm down and mature...


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## nekromantik

DaveS said:


> I have a Porlex, For espresso, I have only ever used 3 or 4 "clicks" (from completely tightened nut). I have found that older beans (i.e, in desperate times from the supermarket) need grinding finer (3 clicks) and fresher (HasBean etc) not quite so fine so 4 usually does the job... Recommended you leave your beans a few days before opening though, all the beans i have bought from HasBean have needed at least 3 or 4 days from roasting to calm down and mature...


ok thanks for the advice.

for starbucks beans if I set it to 2 clicks and use tamp it chokes the machine. I know they are stale and not fresh so wont get a good shot so Im trying fresh beans now.


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## ChiarasDad

fatboyslim said:


> Anyone tried Has Bean Christmas Espresso Blend?


 I hadn't even noticed it until you mentioned it - I haven't tried it, but I probably will order some.


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## jimbow

I currently have some of the Christmas espresso and filter blends. The espresso blend tastes really strongly of chocolate with some nuttiness and a hint of spice. I was surprised that both sets of beans came in different packaging from the usual HasBean bags. The bags were much narrower and were not resealable. I am not sure whether this is a general packaging change for all HasBean coffees or specific to the Christmas blends.


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## Spazbarista

I've had a fair old crack at Hasbean over the last few years. I used to really like the premium espresso blend, but I tended to roast it myself.

I don't know whether this is a reflection of the Global coffee market, but he seems to focus on central American beans, which I find a little bland. I'd like to see more top notch Kenyan, and Indonesian.

These days, for espresso I prefer Happy Donkey Italian, Red Monkey, and the mighty Union Revelation.


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## ChrisP

I personally love Square Mile coffee. Currently drinking Tegu AA. I usually roast my own but not done a 20kg bulk purchase for a while and not buying a couple of kilos at a time. Also it gives me a good excuse to head into leeds and have a coffee at Opposite in the Victoria Quarter. Outstanding coffee. They sell Square Mile and do me a good deal as I buy so much.

I personally feel that when you have a good machine, grinder, beans and the skill to pull a quality shot every time then the lighter the roast the better......within reason......when its roasted dark it all has the same old mass produced generic coffee taste although it's a lot more forgiving if your skills or your kit are lacking.


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## Spazbarista

Well, I hope Square Mile is good. I've just ordered £40 of espresso on your recommendation!

Quite pricey stuff, isnt it :-o


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## ChrisP

Yeah they're not the cheapest but it's nice stuff. I'd rather drink a smaller amount of excellent coffee than larger amounts of average coffee. Although I end up drinking large amounts of excellent coffee


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## RoloD

Expobarista said:


> Well, I hope Square Mile is good. I've just ordered £40 of espresso on your recommendation!
> 
> Quite pricey stuff, isnt it :-o


Their packs are 350g rather than 250g, but they're still pricey - and coffee shops who sell the beans set their own prices so they can be more expensive still.

But very good coffee.


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## garydyke1

Off topic maybe but I have to say St Ali 'Cult of done' espresso blend is probably one the best blends Ive tried so far . Butterscotch popcorn flavours through milk & very well balanced as a pure espresso.. Bravo


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## garydyke1

Ive noticed Hasbean have a load more beans on the site now....the majority are very well priced (4.50 ish) and lots of choc/caramel/toffee tasting notes.....perhaps more what you guys are after?


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## nekromantik

I like Jailbreak mk5.

Its quite fruity rather then choc so not the best with latte imo.

Im in a difficult situation however as I have no choice but to order online and pay extra for postage as there is only 1 roaster I know of here and they are only open for 4 hours on a Saturday so cant get to them. So might need to have only 1 bag per month until I get a job


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## ChrisP

Buy a genecafe. I know they cost a bit but you can bulk buy green coffee. It will happily keep for a year or two. I've just bought 19kg of coffee for £150 and that will last me the year and I use a lot more coffee than your average consumer. I spend way more than that when buying fresh roasted coffee from a commercial roaster. When I run out of greens I may spend £40 a fortnight on coffee from Suqare Mile.

Sorry.....missed the bit where you mentioned not having a job. Maybe don't buy a genecafe until your in employment


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## nekromantik

Yeah ha ha

I need more then 250g per fortnight as I make 2 cups a day.


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## Spazbarista

I've just received a 1kg bag of Italia Creme from Bella Barista. £11. Takes just like a standard Italian cafe drink, but that is fine by me because I like it. Quite refreshing not to have poncy tasting notes on the bag, in fact the bag is totally plain.


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## Spazbarista

Take that back.

After a few days of drinking it I now find it pretty yukky. At first it entices you with its body and silky mouth feel, but after a few shots over a few days it leaves a nasty taste like rancid apples in your mouth that stays there all day.

It's a munter dressed up in a fur coat.


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## Spazbarista

Well...I've just tried everything Hasbean offers in the way of espresso, courtesy of my brother sending me a sample pack.

This is really quite interesting for me. It's at least 3 years since I've had any blends from Hasbean. I used to really like his Premium blend, now called Jailbreak, but I ended up buying it by the kilo and roasting it myself.

My impression, and I stress...impression.. is that he is roasting lighter than he used to. This is to my great disappointment as it really doesn't do it for me. I've had to develop a new method of drinking coffee when trying these light roasts. It involves swirling the shot round my mouth and then spitting it out into the sink. I get to enjoy the flavours but not to the extent that it makes me wince.

Yukky Yukky yuk yuk

Suffice to say I will not be a regular customer. I don't want coffee that tastes of oranges. If I wanted that, I'd add some orange juice to an espresso. The end result would be the same.


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## Spazbarista

(double posted by mistake and can't find a way to delete this second post)


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## RoloD

Expobarista said:


> My impression, and I stress...impression.. is that he is roasting lighter than he used to. This is to my great disappointment as it really doesn't do it for me...


 I don't know what he was doing three years ago but he certainly roasts light now. The darkest blend of his I've found is Breakfast Bomb - that would be a lightish medium roast from another roaster (I rather like BB - it's a lot more than just a caffeine hit which is how it is promoted).

I've just taken out a subscription to Climpsons (500g espresso beans a month, 6 months for £45). Just had one shot so far and first impressions are good. The 'house style' is totally different from HasBean (darker, nuttier) but not as exotic as Square Mile.


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## Viernes

Reading this thread I got mixed feelings. I have great respect for Steve, despite I'm not from UK and not even know him personally; but the passion and hard work you can feel from him is outstading. The service is excellent, without a doubt the best service I've ever seen in any store of any kind, online or not online; and the range of coffees to choose is overwhelming.

God knows (well and my credit card and my wife







) the amount of Steve's coffees I've tried (+100 actually). I think Steve's tastes leans a lot to acid flavors, and this is reflected in his coffee (which is normal, like a chef gives his personality and style to a food) And while this usually works for brewed coffee, for espresso too much acidity results really offensive for the palate, to the point that sometimes it's probably undrinkable.

I know that the maximum priority for Steve is to bring out of the coffee the best of the best, and AFAIK he doesn't believe in roasting for brew methods  This may is what is creating the problem (for some of us) of using this coffees for espresso. I know others roasters usually do some roasts specially for espresso or for brewing, like SqM or Union which perhaps is the solution.

Anyway HasBean style is choose it or lose it, it works for some people but don't for others. Steve roasted the coffee which Alejandro Mendez used to win the WBC'11... so, for the people who steve's roasts don't work for espresso... maybe we are wrong? or superacidity is just fashion? or it's only that different people have different tastes?


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## MikeHag

> Anyway HasBean style is choose it or lose, it works for some people but don't for others. Steve roasted the coffee which Alejandro Mendez used to win the WBC'11... so, for the people who steve's roasts don't work for espresso... maybe we are wrong? or superacidity is just fashion? *or it's only that different people have different tastes?*


That, I believe.


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## Spazbarista

Viernes said:


> Anyway HasBean style is choose it or lose, it works for some people but don't for others. Steve roasted the coffee which Alejandro Mendez used to win the WBC'11... so, for the people who steve's roasts don't work for espresso... maybe we are wrong? or superacidity is just fashion? or it's only that different people have different tastes?


I wouldn't pay too much attention to the WBC. It has it's fan club but it isn't really relevant to anybody but themselves as a vehicle upon which to make a career... books, lectures etc, and for businesses trying to get some exposure. That's why it exists really.

As Mike says, it's just a question of what you like the taste of, and remember the WBC guys have to do something different. Like any business, Steve is trying to sell you something. There's nothing wrong with that, but personally I like to bear that in mind when reading someone tell you how good their products are.


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## Han

Hi guys/gals, ended up here after a Google search.

have been trying beans from hasbeans espresso starter pack this week and have not liked any of them. All have a weird aroma, fragrance, fruityness to them I severely dislike. £25 worth of coffee I don't think I will drink.

now from a quick google it seems I need darker roasted beans, which has bean don't do.

I like chocolate flavours, dislike fruityness, acidity etc. Can anyone point me a too a bean I may like and a store that's better suited to my tastes,

and yea I probably have a unsophisticated pallette but you like what you like I guess.


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## Jon

Han said:


> Hi guys/gals, ended up here after a Google search.
> 
> have been trying beans from hasbeans espresso starter pack this week and have not liked any of them. All have a weird aroma, fragrance, fruityness to them I severely dislike. £25 worth of coffee I don't think I will drink.
> 
> now from a quick google it seems I need darker roasted beans, which has bean don't do.
> 
> I like chocolate flavours, dislike fruityness, acidity etc. Can anyone point me a too a bean I may like and a store that's better suited to my tastes,
> 
> and yea I probably have a unsophisticated pallette but you like what you like I guess.


I think the guys here buy some Coffee compass stuff that is darker - Rave Coffee do some darker stuff too like Italian job and the like.

If you search for dark roast or maybe the DSOL (Darker side of life) you will surely find some chatter!

Seem to recall @ronsil likes darker beans?


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## 4085

Rave do 2, but they are both blends, Italian Job & Chatsworth. Coffee Compass also do several blends but if you contacted Richard and told him what you want, he will make a recommendation

coffee compass.co.uk


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## DoubleShot

And dfk41 and marcuswar. There's plenty of fans of darker roasted beans. Me included!


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## Dylan

Yea I haven't used Hasbean in a while, I figure its for the EK and Brew boys.


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## jeebsy

Han said:


> Hi guys/gals, ended up here after a Google search.
> 
> have been trying beans from hasbeans espresso starter pack this week and have not liked any of them. All have a weird aroma, fragrance, fruityness to them I severely dislike. £25 worth of coffee I don't think I will drink.
> 
> now from a quick google it seems I need darker roasted beans, which has bean don't do.
> 
> I like chocolate flavours, dislike fruityness, acidity etc. Can anyone point me a too a bean I may like and a store that's better suited to my tastes,
> 
> and yea I probably have a unsophisticated pallette but you like what you like I guess.


http://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/america/products/bolivia-finca-david-vilca-washed-caturra


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## risky

Dylan said:


> Yea I haven't used Hasbean in a while, I figure its for the EK and Brew boys.


It's a matter of personal preference with regard to flavour. Equipment and method doesn't come into it.


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## @3aan

What was the Roast date? If the where realy light roasts the could use a 14 days rest before the are full on flavor and taste!


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## Dylan

risky said:


> It's a matter of personal preference with regard to flavour. Equipment and method doesn't come into it.


That is true to some extent, but it seems fairly widely accepted that some beans are better for brew, and some for espresso.

It is of course possible to enjoy a roast meant for brewed as espresso and vice versa, but mileage is likely to vary.


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## h1udd

Han said:


> and yea I probably have a unsophisticated pallette but you like what you like I guess.


Try chatswood blend from rave. I recomend this because you sound just like me a few months ago. I still favour darker roasts and chocolate/caramel from espresso ... But tastes change, the more you drink, the more you learn your equipment and can get a balance from a bean, the more you will start to stray from what you are used to and enjoy fruitier beans.

2 months ago I went on a couple of training courses, learning how to adjust grind, time, ratios to find that balance and hidden sweetness made a massive difference to my pallet .. My favourite bean now is a hasbean Ethiopian that is like someone dumped a lemon and teaspoon of sugar in the cup, your mouth salivates like a rabid dog.

So order chatswood, and get your technique nailed down, next time you order, order chatswood and try another bean ... I found getting in to brewed helps as well to savour the beans that you dislike as espresso.


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## Mrboots2u

Dylan said:


> Yea I haven't used Hasbean in a while, I figure its for the EK and Brew boys.


The proportion of people on IMM with an Ek will be minuscule . People like what they like - function of personal preference and how you brew it . I hope the OP finds something to suit him .

The omni roast debate ( roasting for espresso not for espresso ) is an old one and really not worth re visiting again .

Suffice to say HB beans gets used plenty in completion - so they are a sproable and they are a successful wholesale and retail supplier .

Doesn't mean you have to like or buy from em .


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## urbanbumpkin

Dylan said:


> Yea I haven't used Hasbean in a while, I figure its for the EK and Brew boys.


When I first started out I had 3 attempts at Hasbean beans and hated them.

In the last 18 months I've had 3 IMM subscriptions and really like them, I can't remember having a duff batch.

I use them mainly for espresso and using Mazzer kit. The only change I've done with my technique is I tend to brew slightly longer 35 secs (17g =>35g) as opposed to 25-30.

Tastes do change, try a longer duration shots.


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## aaronb

Han said:


> Hi guys/gals, ended up here after a Google search.
> 
> have been trying beans from hasbeans espresso starter pack this week and have not liked any of them. All have a weird aroma, fragrance, fruityness to them I severely dislike. £25 worth of coffee I don't think I will drink.
> 
> now from a quick google it seems I need darker roasted beans, which has bean don't do.
> 
> I like chocolate flavours, dislike fruityness, acidity etc. Can anyone point me a too a bean I may like and a store that's better suited to my tastes,
> 
> and yea I probably have a unsophisticated pallette but you like what you like I guess.


FWIW, what dose are you using, what's your output weight, and in what time? Also what grinder and machine?

Some of these beans have quite a narrow band for extraction and if you drift too far then you get pretty horrible coffee.

It may be that you do prefer darker roasts but if you give us a bit more info we can try and see if you are getting the best out of them before you give up on them.


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## MediumRoastSteam

I am on the same boat as Han. Don't like them as much as Rave's blends for example. For me, I usually just stick to the 18g in, 36g out in 30s rule. Last one I had was their Jailbreak espresso blend. Pro 700, Mignon and VST.


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## jeebsy

Dylan said:


> Yea I haven't used Hasbean in a while, I figure its for the EK and Brew boys.


If we're going to draw sweeping generalisations then I'd say Has Bean are for people with a refined palette and good taste


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## risky

pessutojr said:


> For me, I usually just stick to the 18g in, 36g out in 30s rule.


It's not a rule! It's an incredibly rough guide that will get you some way towards a tasty drink. (not necessarily close) Every bean is different. If you extract them all the same way you'll never get the best out of them.


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## jeebsy

risky said:


> It's not a rule! It's an incredibly rough guide that will get you some way towards a tasty drink. (not necessarily close) Every bean is different. If you extract them all the same way you'll never get the best out of them.


But I don't like to waste coffee dialling in...


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## h1udd

you waste no more coffee dialling in to different extraction than you do to 18

Aim for that ratio and taste the coffee, is it bitter, is it sour ... adjust accordingly, the next cup will be sweeter, keep adjusting until you go too far then come back. You won't be wasting coffee as each time you adjust to balance that bean the coffee will taste better than the last.


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## MWJB

h1udd said:


> you waste no more coffee dialling in to different extraction than you do to 18
> 
> Aim for that ratio and taste the coffee, is it bitter, is it sour ... adjust accordingly, the next cup will be sweeter, keep adjusting until you go too far then come back. You won't be wasting coffee as each time you adjust to balance that bean the coffee will taste better than the last.


Trouble is you might not get "too far" in the course of a whole bag, and there's no reason why 30s should consistently be a target. The time can wander some, if you are brewing to a time, you're compromising brewing to a ratio. Brew by ratio & taste, record time.

If you want to change the taste of your coffee, sometimes doing the same thing over & over is preventing you from doing just that, to get a different result you sometimes need a different plan.


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## NickdeBug

Sad to see Han turning to the Darkside after all these years.


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## jeebsy

h1udd said:


> you waste no more coffee dialling in to different extraction than you do to 18
> 
> Or rather think about dialling in...i.e. if you just aim to hit those numbers but don't pay attention to taste there's a good chance you won't be getting the best out each coffee


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## Han

aaronb said:


> FWIW, what dose are you using, what's your output weight, and in what time? Also what grinder and machine?
> 
> Some of these beans have quite a narrow band for extraction and if you drift too far then you get pretty horrible coffee.
> 
> It may be that you do prefer darker roasts but if you give us a bit more info we can try and see if you are getting the best out of them before you give up on them.


Yea this might be a problem perhaps :yuk:as ive not been measuring and to be fair ive only had the machine for 2 months (first machine too). I have done today and just looking at some comments here I might be doing something wrong.

Equipment: -

Gaggia Baby Class (06) with rancilio silvia wand mod

DELONGHI KG49 Electric Coffee Grinder (http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/small-kitchen-appliances/coffee-machines-and-accessories/coffee-accessories/delonghi-kg49-electric-coffee-grinder-black-06323852-pdt.html)

Motta Stainless Tamper

Measurements as of today

18g Beans

50-60g weight in liquid out (do I need to measure weight or ml?)

23 seconds after pressing button just counting in head but will use phone next time

I will make another in afternoon and try to make adjustments. I only drink milk based coffee.


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## froggystyle

I would suggest you are under extracting slightly with those numbers, tighten the grind if possible?


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## urbanbumpkin

Han said:


> Yea this might be a problem perhaps :yuk:as ive not been measuring and to be fair ive only had the machine for 2 months (first machine too). I have done today and just looking at some comments here I might be doing something wrong.
> 
> Equipment: -
> 
> Gaggia Baby Class (06) with rancilio silvia wand mod
> 
> DELONGHI KG49 Electric Coffee Grinder (http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/household-appliances/small-kitchen-appliances/coffee-machines-and-accessories/coffee-accessories/delonghi-kg49-electric-coffee-grinder-black-06323852-pdt.html)
> 
> Motta Stainless Tamper
> 
> Measurements as of today
> 
> 18g Beans
> 
> 50-60g weight in liquid out (do I need to measure weight or ml?)
> 
> 23 seconds after pressing button just counting in head but will use phone next time
> 
> I will make another in afternoon and try to make adjustments. I only drink milk based coffee.


That's definitely worth tightening the grind and grind finer.

Measure output in weight, try aiming for approx the 35g in output weight and see what it tastes like. I agree with the earlier comments about not getting too hung up on time, but if you produce a 35g output in under 20 secs it's going to taste bad.

It might be the case that the grinder you have can't grind fine enough for espresso


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## aaronb

That is far too much output far too quickly, it probably tastes vile!

As others are saying 18g to about 35g in around 30-35 seconds is a starting point. The grinder may not really be up to the task of espresso.

Forgive the potentially stupid question, but have you swapped out the pressurised basket for a normal one? If not that is going to seriously hold you back.


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## froggystyle

Is that grinder a blade grinder?


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## Han

Yes a blade grinder

@ aaranb I'm using the double shot basket


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## Han

I'll do another shot shortly and record so you can see better.


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## froggystyle

Ok there is the issue, you are not going to get anything decent with that grinder, betting you are getting gushers...

Do you have any cash to spend on another grinder?


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## KayLovesCoffee

MikeHag said:


> I think dark roasts are making a comeback


Definitely


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## MWJB

De Longhi KG49 looks like a blade grinder? You may well struggle with that.

A used electric burr grinder, that is espresso capable might be found for ~£100-ish, otherwise a hand grinder that will grind fine (LidoE, Made by Knock Feldgrind, Sozen Turkish grinder) might be an option?

Cheaper hand grinders (Hario/Porlex/Rhino) may work but will quickly become a chore grinding double doses, you may want to focus on single doses to preserve your sanity.


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## urbanbumpkin

Han said:


> I'll do another shot shortly and record so you can see better.


I don't think it's going to make a difference I'm afraid. You're going to need a better grinder. As others have suggested, there's some used burr grinders on the market for £100 mark or you can look at a hand grinder.


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## Han

Yea I don't mind spending up to £130, could you link me to one?


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## PPapa

Han said:


> Yea I don't mind spending up to £130, could you link me to one?


Feldgrind on Dear Green website is your best bet at the moment, or Lido E from CoffeeHit/Coffee Tasting Club. I am on mobile, so can't post links easily.

If you want electric one, I hope someone else will refer to something useful.


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## Han

I'm guessing grinding for longer isn't going to make it any finer?

sometimes I can get the shot to poor super slow dripping like but with these beans they are gushers. Perhaps because these are fresh (baked jan 12) and previously I was using M&S beans which I liked but probably not fresh. But they ground well for aka nice slow shot.


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## froggystyle

Nope....


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## froggystyle

Its not about making it finer, well it is, but its more about uniform grind particles, you have to think with the blade grinder its chopping it all up at different sizes, the bigger sizes will allow the water to pass through quicker, meaning a faster extraction resulting in weaker drink... Basically.


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## Han

Yea need electric


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## Mrboots2u

As always taste is a function of preference and how the beans are being brewed , until some level if nominal extraction is achieved then hey

to the op Beans are too fresh for espresso - i suspect your grinder and machine are holding you back in terms of getting the taste expressed in the tasting notes or by others here .

Espresso is hard - its even harder on entry level equipment


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## Han

Thinking of just getting a melitta barista ts bean to cup rather than buying a expensive seperate

grinder, and sell this machine to contribute towards it.

can buy for around £450 from Amazon Euro stores. Any good?


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## Jumbo Ratty

Han said:


> I'm guessing grinding for longer isn't going to make it any finer?


Yes, grinding for longer will slow down the pour. try adding 5 seconds more to the time you grind for, if that doesnt slow it down enough add more seconds.

for 56 grams of beans I tend to time 35 seconds.


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## aaronb

As others are saying that grinder is going to cause you issues with whatever beans you use.

Also you say the double basket, if you look at the bottom does it have lots of holes (good) or just a plastic thing in the middle (bad)?

If the latter you need a standard double basket - but not worth doing until you get a burr grinder.


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## Han

Lots of little holes


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## Jumbo Ratty

aaronb said:


> If the latter you need a standard double basket - but not worth doing until you get a burr grinder.


Rubbish.

I have a blade grinder and found a marked improvement going from pressurised to un pressurised


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## Han

So ground for 20s longer and is a lot slower now but still probably too fast. This was 40g weight out, lacking a nice creme head though.


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## froggystyle

Whats it taste like?

Cant see the vid as blocked at work.


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## Jumbo Ratty

considering the circumference of the vessel you used im not surprised.

if it was a smaller diameter the crema would have been more condensed


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## urbanbumpkin

I've never seen a shot pulled into a dimpled pint glass before.


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## Han

Lol that's my latte glass

i tried it as just an espresso neat (which I don't drink) and tasted a little burnt and like oranges / caramel, but very strong.


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## jeebsy

It's espresso, it's a strong drink. A bit like drinking a spirit straight - if you normally drink it with a mixer (i.e. in milk) then it might be a bit jarring on its own. You could try adding a little water to bring the strength down if you want to get at the flavours more.


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## Mrboots2u

It's hard not to come across as a bit superior or know it all when trying to help in these situations , so apologies if that is the tone I or we strike , for myself it is not my intention

The OP is new to home coffee and has made stuff that he enjoys before ( M and S ) . there is no shame in that or not liking stuff that other people do ( Has Bean for instance )

But i would suggest that the mix of how the coffee is being ground - the baskets used and the techniques employed are not getting the max from the coffee.

For a newcomer to home coffee that can be hard to take or get . You have a machine and grinder that there will be lots of complimentary reviews for on Amazon and non geeks sites ....

If would be helpful to see what grinder ( blade - burr etc it is )

what baskets are being used in the portafilter

How the coffee is being stored even

How long the machine has been on before use

Lets go from there

Oh and id get some kind of better vessel to use to make a drink in


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## PeterF

I second that!


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## Han

Don't be, I know I'm a amateur and am trying to learn. Just glad there might be something I can do to improve what I have been making so far with these bean which will no doubt help going forward. I might still not like them but atleast will have given them a fair shout. no doubt what I have been making so far hasn't done the beans any favours.

I will put up some more details shortly including images etc


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## greenm

Not a huge fan of HasBean but their Ethiopian Yirgacheffe Gedeb Natural Kurume is sublime as an espresso or flat white


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## Thecatlinux

I held off from HAsBean for such a long time , to be honest I wish I had not , they have far exceeded my expectations with regards to delivering such a high standard of coffee and in my opinion they deserve their highly regarded reputation .

Fair enough if other people don't like them I understand that people's choices and tastes are different , but in my little bubble I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them .


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## Ramrod

I'm happy with hasbean. Just got these in the post today


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## Nobodysdriving

I was fine with their coffee, I stopped ordering from them the day I was talked to like a little child by one of their big headed 'person in charge', I have decided from that day that I will not keep giving my money to people who look down at you like you are more a nuisance than a customer.

Of course you would only have my side of the story, it would not be fair to talk about this on an open forum, but I have decided (and told them in no uncertain terms) that I will never buy from them again. I am sure they will keep thriving without my custom (so long that that person 'watches' his mouth and does not talk to others like he has done with me).

anyway...I should really thank him as he's helped me go onto the 'home-roasting' road, without our 'bust-up' I may have ended up buying from them for many years to come, instead now I save loads of money and I have coffee which tastes great too (all happens for a reason as they say)


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## jeebsy

Nobodysdriving said:


> I was fine with their coffee, I stopped ordering from them the day I was talked to like a little child by one of their big headed 'person in charge', I have decided from that day that I will not keep giving my money to people who look down at you like you are more a nuisance than a customer.
> 
> Of course you would only have my side of the story, it would not be fair to talk about this on an open forum, but I have decided (and told them in no uncertain terms) that I will never buy from them again. I am sure they will keep thriving without my custom (so long that that person 'watches' his mouth and does not talk to others like he has done with me).
> 
> anyway...I should really thank him as he's helped me go onto the 'home-roasting' road, without our 'bust-up' I may have ended up buying from them for many years to come, instead now I save loads of money and I have coffee which tastes great too (all happens for a reason as they say)


I've tested their customer services on a few occasions and always been impressed with their responses.


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## jlarkin

Me too. I've found the service to be impeccable. Always quick answers and they've been very helpful.


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## aaronb

Me three. I've met Steve a few times and he's a really nice guy.

Dealt with a few others over email and they've been fine. Chris went the extra mile once to sort something for me without being asked.


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## Jason1wood

I've just started ordering from Has Bean and I do love the fact they produce a video of info etc, as my palette isn't great so a little helping hand with pointing out tastes does help me.

Never needed to contact them so can't comment on that but I'm really happy with the service I get from them.


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## jeebsy

I cancelled my IMM on Friday and they were great about it. Almost made me rescind the cancellation.


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