# Rocket R58 Glitches



## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Hi all

After five years of faultless operation, my R58 has recently started to play up, just a little and (so far) only occasionally.

At first I wasn't sure whether it has one issue or two: initially I thought that whatever triggered the automatic refill of the brew boiler might not be working properly because the pump was not activating when I opened the valve to the brew head. I thought that perhaps the water level in the boiler had got too low because the first time it happened, when I turned the machine off and on again, the refill was triggered. However now I am not so sure because I have had three or four more instances of nothing happening when opening the valve, and turning the machine off and on has resolved the problem each time without refill being triggered. So I'm now thinking limescale issues, or valve/pressure sensor problems.

I live in a hard water part of the world so my R58 has never seen tap water, only Waitrose Lockhills. As a result I have (shameful admission) carried out almost no descaling (I know I have, but I can't remember when...). But I did think that using Lockhills pretty much removed the need to do so.

In a normal world situation I would just get the R58 serviced, but normal has gone on a long holiday and it will be quite a while before Bella Barista can take it. In the meantime I am up for a bit of DIY servicing but thought before I start anything I would do two very important things: give the machine a jolly good descale; and see if there is anything else in particular you think I need to consider.

All thoughts greatly appreciated!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

What's this valve you're talking about and conflating it with a boiler refill?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm also confused. Are you saying you lift the brew lever and the pump doesn't start until you turn the machine off and on again?

Does the brew boiler have a level sensor that triggers an auto-fill???

What "valve/pressure sensor problems" are you talking about? What pressure sensor?

Take a picture of the Waitrose lockhills mineral content. Bottled water can change when sources are changed, or just change naturally.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I'm going to take a completely wild stab in the dark and say check the pump capacitor.....well the motor capacitor. But maybe clarify the things that aren't clear first.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Mea culpa. I'm using language to attempt to describe what is happening but without really knowing much beyond the absolute basics of how the R58 works on the inside. So, yes, I am saying that I lift the brew lever (clearly I wrongly assumed that in doing so I was opening a valve. Obviously not!) and nothing happens. I switch the machine off, then switch it on again, and lift the brew lever and everything works as it should.

The bit about automatic refilling of the brew boiler is probably a red herring. It just so happened that the very first time lifting the brew lever resulted in nothing happening, I switched the machine off and on, and the refill process immediately started. Once the refill was completed, I lifted the brew lever and everything worked, so I jumped on the least logical conclusion and thought that whatever triggers refill was the fault. Of course since then the few times things have gone wrong, the refill process hasn't happened. So I did wrongly conflate the symptoms Dave.

Lockhills' mineral content has changed in recent months. The first photo (Calcium 20.0) below is of the mineral content as at six months ago and for several years before that. The second photo is of the new, current numbers which look less good.

I am waiting to receive some Dezcal in the next couple of days and will do the necessary and then see if I get any repeat issues. If thorough descaling doesn't resolve the problem I will start to research the alternatives, including your thoughts Rob. Thank you.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

So you lift the brew lever on the E61 and sometimes the pump doesn't run (*it's completely silent, no hum or buzz*), no extra lights on, or flashing.

If you switch the machine off, then on again. The pump *sometimes or always* runs OK? The bit in bold is important as not answering that correctly can cost you money.

P.S. When it does run, what pressure does the machine develop with a blind filter loaded?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Both of the waters you've been using will be scaling the service boiler, possibly the brew boiler too depending on the offset.

The auto-fill trigger is going to be to the service boiler, not the brew boiler, unless the rocket does actually have an auto-fill sensor on the brew boiler. I can't imagine it does.

You haven't descaled at all in 5 years? What happens when you drain the service boiler? The auto-fill should kick in...


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes Dave, on a small proportion of occasions when I Iift the brew lever the pump does not run, is completely silent and there are no audible or visual clues beyond that. And when that has happened - when I have switched the machine off and on again - the pump always runs okay. With a blind filter, the machine is developing fractionally above 10 bar.according to the Rocket pressure gauge. You didn't ask but just in case, in normal use it generally develops around 9.5 bar. I assume that might be very slightly high.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Both of the waters you've been using will be scaling the service boiler, possibly the brew boiler too depending on the offset.
> 
> The auto-fill trigger is going to be to the service boiler, not the brew boiler, unless the rocket does actually have an auto-fill sensor on the brew boiler. I can't imagine it does.
> 
> You haven't descaled at all in 5 years? What happens when you drain the service boiler? The auto-fill should kick in...


 So serious descaling is necessary. Thanks for the clarification on the auto-fill function. I haven't sought to deliberately drain the service boiler but the auto-fill function kicks in at what feels like appropriately regular intervals.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Philip HN said:


> So serious descaling is necessary. Thanks for the clarification on the auto-fill function. I haven't sought to deliberately drain the service boiler but the auto-fill function kicks in at what feels like appropriately regular intervals.


 Ok. Well descaling may not solve the problem, but it's a good idea. Having said that it may cause further problems. You may have to descale the service boiler multiple times. If you've never drained it the mineral content has been increasing for 5 years. The water is only capable of holding so much, the excess will just be deposited on the boiler...

You gave the impression this was happening every time you lifted the brew lever after the machine had been idle, not that it happened a small proportion of times. Is there an error code displayed on the pid?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Philip HN said:


> Yes Dave, on a small proportion of occasions when I Iift the brew lever the pump does not run, is completely silent and there are no audible or visual clues beyond that. And when that has happened - when I have switched the machine off and on again - the pump always runs okay. With a blind filter, the machine is developing fractionally above 10 bar.according to the Rocket pressure gauge. You didn't ask but just in case, in normal use it generally develops around 9.5 bar. I assume that might be very slightly high.


 Using Occam's razor and it's also best for your pocket.



Loose wiring between brew switch and autofill box or autofill box and pump relay


Defective brew switch


*Defective autofill box (proelind box)*


I have listed them in order of cost to fix with the most likely fault in bold. I have excluded the tank water sensor because you don't mention any low water lights or heating elements shutting down. Good luck.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> Using Occam's razor and it's also best for your pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Appreciated. Thanks.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Ok. Well descaling may not solve the problem, but it's a good idea. Having said that it may cause further problems. You may have to descale the service boiler multiple times. If you've never drained it the mineral content has been increasing for 5 years. The water is only capable of holding so much, the excess will just be deposited on the boiler...
> 
> You gave the impression this was happening every time you lifted the brew lever after the machine had been idle, not that it happened a small proportion of times. Is there an error code displayed on the pid?


 No, never any error code. The frequency of the issue has been low: the brew lever gets lifted between four and five times each day and I have encountered the 'nil return' problem maybe four or five times in the last two months. I completely understand the potential materiality of the descaling problem and will do whatever it takes, including having the service boiler removed for the purpose if it came to it. But one thing at a time, I will take Dave's advice on possible faults, and also descale thoroughly and more frequently than might normally be necessary for a while to see whether the issue continues to appear. Thanks very much for your thoughts.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Job done. Cathartic for both of us (me and R58). Already looking forward to the next session - making up for lost time, obviously. Alert to the risk that larger particles might give rise to problems I first identified and chatted to a local coffee machine technician. Happy that I had a safety net I carried out the first descale, and everything seems fine so far. I'll do a couple more. On the brew lever issue the gentleman I spoke to mentioned the same possibilities as Dave so now it is just a matter of waiting until the next time that happens and investigating rather than just going through the default 'switch off and on' process. If that gives rise to anything that feels like useful information to share, I will do that.


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