# Dose amount in DB basket?



## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

I've been seeing a lot of soggy pucks which sometimes stick to the shower screen with my DB. I've been dosing 18g and as I've been going finer on the grind I've seen this getting worse. So been doing some reading and I think I've found that leaving too much space in the basket can cause the soggy puck. Appreciate that this isn't a 'problem' so to speak more just trying to understand cause and effect. Started to dose 20g today and that has improved the puck and it knocks out slightly easier.

What dose levels are others using in their DB baskets?


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## Kyle T (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm dosing 17g into mine (old habit from using the DTP) and I've noticed a similar thing. I might increase to 18g and see if mine improves.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

I also went down to 17g and it got worse


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Soggy pucks is a grind issue which will exist no matter how much you put in....try slacking off a bit and putting in 18 gms.....seems to work well for me......the dose variance will only work to slow or speed the pour once the grind is right


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Soggy pucks is a grind issue which will exist no matter how much you put in....try slacking off a bit and putting in 18 gms.....seems to work well for me......the dose variance will only work to slow or speed the pour once the grind is right


I got soggy pucks with sage db and now with Vesuvius as well but not always. I was thinking that this must be an grinding issue but I don't understand what's really the issue. Could you please detail what's that issue?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

iulianato said:


> I got soggy pucks with sage db and now with Vesuvius as well but not always. I was thinking that this must be an grinding issue but I don't understand what's really the issue. Could you please detail what's that issue?


Lower fill level in the PF basket. The more coffee you put in, the less standing water is retained in the PF after the 3 way solenoid works.

It is not, in itself, a sign that anything is wrong if the coffee tastes good.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

Ah, and in my case it is not really soggy I think. It is dry enough but I get some water on the puck which is absorbed in about 5 secs after I get pf out. Same happened on sage db.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

I normally use 18g in the basket which for the DB seems a bit low as I'm guessing the basket is a 20g? I've been trying to go finer on my grind to push the extraction time up from mid 20s to get 36g out. As I've been going finer the puck is becoming more soggy and harder to get out after.

Appreciate as I say this isn't a problem so to speak, I'm just trying to understand. So today I tried 20g in the basket and 40g out, this took about 40s and the puck was firmer and easier to knock out. I'm doing this with a 12s infusion, 65% pressure and 95 degrees.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I think it depends how soggy. All I get if it's down to very fine grinding is a sort of film of water on the puck but that was on a BE. Not happened on the DB but probably will at some point.

I had some serious problems with the DB single - pucks sticking which usually means a bit too low but it turned out to be down to serious under filling. The puck was extremely fragile but not soggy. This never happened on my BE. I assume it's down to the 3 way being more efficient on the DB.

Weight - well same bean but different roast, same basket, 10% variation in weight for the same fill height.

What I do which works for me is to set a fill height that just about reaches the shower screen when the grinds have expanded and doesn't make a significant difference to the flow rates. Low for me is when it doesn't reach it and the top of the puck isn't dead flat and shows very slight ripples but the puck still knocks out pretty cleanly. I usually aim to see the shower screen pattern on top of the puck and ideally if it works with the bean very slight signs of the hole in the shower screen fixing screw. I've used that to make fine adjustments to the timer setting on the BE's grinder rather than check weighing an output daily.

John

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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Soggy simply means all the water has not passed through the puck. It might be that there is too much coffee in the basket, it might be the grind is too fine and cannot pass through. Just back off on the grind a small amount and within a couple of shots you will have cracked it.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Hear what you are saying but this has been some of my issue, I have been going finer with the grind as I'm trying to slow the flow rate down but as I'm doing that it's making the puck wetter. I had started to read that this can also be caused by under dosing the basket which is why I tried 20g today and it seemed to make a difference and hence my question to see what others were doing with dose levels.

I've gone back to 18g and backing off the grind again but I'm coming to the end of my beans so will be starting again on a fresh batch shortly.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

This what I expect a used puck to look like. 10.3g that should have been 10.5, no flow during infusion for 10 secs that should have been closer to 12 to give and idea of grind. When I weigh beans in the first shot usually comes out a touch low. ;No time for my morning shot today.









I've tried to show as much detail as possible but slight signs of the fixing screw are too slight. The texture is from the shower screen.

Not sure how I obtained 2 photo's in the post.

John

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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

Have tried various weights in mine. Settled with 20g in the end. When I had my white glove they were dosing circa 22g.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

ajohn said:


> This what I expect a used puck to look like. 10.3g that should have been 10.5, no flow during infusion for 10 secs that should have been closer to 12 to give and idea of grind. When I weigh beans in the first shot usually comes out a touch low. ;No time for my morning shot today.
> 
> View attachment 33504
> 
> ...


If the shower screen is indenting on the puck then there is too much coffee in the basket leaving not enough room for the water to circulate and flow properly


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> If the shower screen is indenting on the puck then there is too much coffee in the basket leaving not enough room for the water to circulate and flow properly


As I mentioned it works for me and the dry puck isn't touching the shower screen.







I'll try and measure the difference if you like.

I also found that this produces the strongest drink but if the quantity is increased too much that drops off. The current 10.3 for that shot may finish up being less or more but only by about 0.2g or so and highly unlikely to be lower as have already bean there.

John

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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> Have tried various weights in mine. Settled with 20g in the end. When I had my white glove they were dosing circa 22g.


I think with the standard Sage basket this is probably the ideal dose. If you use the razor then I believe its closer to 22g which is probably why the White Glove doses at this amount??

Out of interest, what grind setting are you using on your Sage grinder? Interested to hear how fine/course you are and what's working well for flow, volume and of course, taste?


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

AndyJH said:


> I think with the standard Sage basket this is probably the ideal dose. If you use the razor then I believe its closer to 22g which is probably why the White Glove doses at this amount??
> 
> Out of interest, what grind setting are you using on your Sage grinder? Interested to hear how fine/course you are and what's working well for flow, volume and of course, taste?


I currently use 18g vst basket and a baratza 270 grinder. I can't remember what the Grind setting was with my sage grinder. Though I can recall it being well into the single figures.

At the moment with my current rave bean I dose 20g> 42g out in 35 secs at aprox 9 bar. Although not a indicator of much but my puck is reasonably dry and knocks out leaving no residue. When I have played around with lower doses i would find on occasion the puck would be wet and sometimes would get sucked back to the shower screen.

I found no difference between the sage and the vst basket.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> I currently use 18g vst basket and a baratza 270 grinder. I can't remember what the Grind setting was with my sage grinder. Though I can recall it being well into the single figures.
> 
> At the moment with my current rave bean I dose 20g> 42g out in 35 secs at aprox 9 bar. Although not a indicator of much but my puck is reasonably dry and knocks out leaving no residue. When I have played around with lower doses i would find on occasion the puck would be wet and sometimes would get sucked back to the shower screen.
> 
> I found no difference between the sage and the vst basket.


Ah, just noticed your signature still shows the SGP which is why I asked. I think I'm down to around 6 on the grinder setting but obviously this depends on the bean also. Mine is a little lower on the pressure, about 8.5 bar most of the time and as I say, with a PI of 12 seconds and 60% pressure. I'll start again on a new bean tomorrow and see how it goes with 20g dose. Thanks for the info though.


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

I dose at 20g too- my pucks always seem pretty dry when I brew at 1:2 ratio for around 30 secs.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

It does seem that 20g is a better dose amount for the standard basket. I'm back trying 18g currently and the puck seems drier since using my new grinder.


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

AndyJH said:


> It does seem that 20g is a better dose amount for the standard basket. I'm back trying 18g currently and the puck seems drier since using my new grinder.


What are your ratios and time also what's your pump pressure with your 18g dose?


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> What are your ratios and time also what's your pump pressure with your 18g dose?


I'm still going though a lot of coffee testing but I'm aim for 2:1 and going from there. I'm not happy with my current results but I aim for approx. 20g in and 40g out in around 40s. My machine is currently set to 12s preinfusion at 60% pressure and 95 degrees with the OTP is set to 8.5bar.

However I read yesterday that the bean I'm using has good results with a longer extraction so this morn I reduced input to 18 and increased output to 40g and it did this in approx. 42s. Less bitterness but still not flavoursome so will try some more later when I get home.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> Have tried various weights in mine. Settled with 20g in the end. When I had my white glove they were dosing circa 22g.


That's bean mentioned by a couple of people. One was struggling with Sage grinder and also mentioned that white gloves produced a great drink but was over dosing. There is no doubt that a white gloves person will have brewed so many shots that they will get the same thing out blindfolded. Also be used to the machines. It wouldn't be a good idea for Sage to send anyone out that produced crap coffee.

I found the razor tool useful on my BE. I try different basket sizes so a quick way of loosely finding how much to put in not worrying that one bean may be denser than another etc. I assume that it set a level that left clearance for the grinds to expand - some people use a coin - I used the tool that was provided. Looking more closely at what it does but on a DB it doesn't seem to leave any at all. I then played with weight. On the BE single I found more was ok up to a point and then taste dropped off. At some point the portafilter wont go on but the drop off was below that.

It all leaves me wonder who is right







name at random, @dfk41 or white gloves and the razor tool. I do need to check the razor a few more times to be 100% sure what it does on the DB though. Maybe I didn't have it dead vertical etc but then comes what white gloves are said to do.

Personally reason to me suggests that grinds on the shower screen will help with flow - the pressure will be even across the top of the grinds and if the shower screen happens to be adding more water in one area it should help with that. If grinds rise locally they press on the screen harder. I have used levels while changing things where the top doesn't reach the shower screen but the puck isn't flat - slight ripples indicating some form of channelling but only very slight. So far it seems to be hard to get that on my DB. I can't help wondering if it's down to the showering bits and pieces. Going to have another go







but I can only drink so many shots a day so it will take a while. When I was getting holes in the puck they seem to relate to uneven flow out of the shower screen - mostly on the side where the water goes in. The BE's screen arrangement is much simpler and this didn't happen. Some one mentioned tamping singles - well I tamped the BE single as well and it didn't happen. It's single has the typical shape.

John

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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

I think I'm going to try the razor tool tomorrow as I'm just about losing the plot with making coffee now







I don't think I've managed to pull a good shot yet and I certainly haven't pulled one than I can taste anything other than strong coffee with bitterness.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

AndyJH said:


> I think I'm going to try the razor tool tomorrow as I'm just about losing the plot with making coffee now
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure the razor tool will help with that problem. All it will do is set a quantity of some ground beans after they are tamped. Weight will vary according to the type of bean. I use monsooned and that can work out a lot lighter than another bean I use - around a gram difference in 14g.

I don't know if you have moved up from a DTP and all was ok with that. I've moved from a BE and have been struggling. Probably getting near 700g though and still not entirely happy but it's getting there. A fair bit of the 700g went due to problems with the single that came with it and finding a decent range of settings for my new grinder. I eventually reasoned that to get the same taste as I had on the BE I needed to grind finer and that would also reduce the ratio that I used on the BE. I'm using 1 to 2 via an extended time, 40 sec at the moment. I was using 1 to 3 or a bit more over a shorter time but the BE's OPV opens at 15 bar not 9.x as per the DB.

I haven't done much to the settings on mine. I reset it to defaults after playing with using a 6 bar brew pressure method by altering the infusion numbers, too much to take on so decided to leave that for later. I then changed the infusion time to 12 sec purely on the basis that on the BE I needed to see some flow during infusion to get a decent drink. It think it was I at 7 secs, the BE is 10.

I've also used a Piccino, not that much but I found I needed more coffee than I used on the BE. It looks like I do on the DB as well but you seem to have gone the other way probably for other reasons.

:waiting:I've had all sorts of tastes so all I can say is persevere. It sound like something is wrong some where.

I managed to get where I would start on a BE. A puck with a bit of a wrinkled top and slight signs of the hole in the fixing screw. The razor tool just about removed that pip on the puck so it looks to me at the moment that it sets the grinds at more or less the same height as the shower screen.

Having obtained a puck like that I've always added a bit more coffee. If that makes the puck stick a bit more again. I then get pucks that pop out cleanly. At the weights I use it's only an extra few 1/10's gram. Some how or the other I managed to get way over what that which is when I had holes in the puck - grinds expand and only a thin jet can get through. However in some ways the coffee was better as the weight went up so I've set the grinder even finer and used a more sensible fill weight. It looks like the razor would increase the weight I have tried. I've only ever used it as a guide on where to start weight wise. I've faffed about due to what it did on the Sage single which resulted in it not using it again until recently. However some reckon I use the wrong fill height, with a smile on my face I'm inclined to say up yours. Works for me and until it doesn't I will use it on new beans and new baskets. Next time I will know that it might leave things a bit higher than the one I might finish up using.

John

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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

LOL Not working out that well on the DB. Not sure why and might be something else going on but when I add my usual increase in weight to the "wrinkled" one I seem to be over filling. 12.3 wrinkled, 12.5 may be too much, 12.7 too.

It looks like the razor tool sets the coffee at more or less the same height as the depth of the concave shape of the shower screen. The shape might be causing my grief.

On the double I would have thought use it to get a weight and then weigh in 1g less. That might produce a puck that doesn't hit the shower screen all over. On the weight I am using the reduction needed is close to 0.7g. Beans may well vary though.

If my usual way wont work I might have to go the @dfk41 way.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

ajohn said:


> LOL Not working out that well on the DB. Not sure why and might be something else going on but when I add my usual increase in weight to the "wrinkled" one I seem to be over filling. 12.3 wrinkled, 12.5 may be too much, 12.7 too.
> 
> It looks like the razor tool sets the coffee at more or less the same height as the depth of the concave shape of the shower screen. The shape might be causing my grief.
> 
> ...


Given the puck will be pretty much as wide as the basket when full, how much height do you consider that a difference of 0.2g makes?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Not much but I'd probably go for 0.4g on the BE or maybe more. On that I tended to adjust by small amounts via taste. 2 shots with unexpected results like swallows don't make a summer but as the weights are accurate and the tamping consistent the only thing left is variations in the grinder or machine. Taste - well 13gram was weaker - at the grind I was using.

I am bemused by 12.3 being clear and the others looking as if they may have pressed too hard. 12.3 just about touched at the centre only, probably a feature of the basket. Some including me believe totally equal extraction on a single is unlikely to be achieved. IMS do produce a screen which could leave a heavy impression around the rim. Might help but would currently mess my weights up.

Quick edit - on the other hand given the shape of the basket maybe grinds should rise more in the centre. If that's the case well done IMS.

John

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Have you any data to back up the idea that single extractions are less even (given that doubles aren't totally even either)?


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Have you any data to back up the idea that single extractions are less even (given that doubles aren't totally even either)?


No more than some one who commented on it - anyway this thread was about a double. I related my experience with a smaller basket and the razor tool which the OP intends to try.

John

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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

I went back to basics today and just followed the instructions in the Sage manual, you can see I'm getting desperate! Also switched back to my SGP grinder and I can't get my Macap to grind finely enough. So, using the razor tool I filled the portafilter, taped using the Sage taper and just hit the double shot button. This pulled 50g from 22g in 30s and was probably the best shot I had







All this is because I want to get to a repeatable baseline to work from and that's been my issue, as part of this I've also reset my DB back to default settings.

I also tried to repeat this a number of times and got close once. So something is messing but not sure what yet.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

AndyJH said:


> I also tried to repeat this a number of times and got close once. So something is messing but not sure what yet.


What was the fault when you tried to repeat this unsuccessfully?


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

Yield changing for same dose and time which I guess indicates tamp pressure. Plus taste was fairly interesting on first attempt, no bitterness and bold mouth feel. After this they were slightly bitter again.

On the up side though the puck looks great dosing this way







Every time it has a nice impression of the shower head, nice and dry, comes out cleanly and breaks apart nicely.

I simply want to find a baseline to work from and experience some of the flavour notes from a good bean. Think I'm just going to find a local training location.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

AndyJH said:


> Yield changing for same dose and time which I guess indicates tamp pressure. Plus taste was fairly interesting on first attempt, no bitterness and bold mouth feel. After this they were slightly bitter again.
> 
> On the up side though the puck looks great dosing this way
> 
> ...


Focus on the dose & yield (cut the shot manually if needed), don't fret if the time varies a little.

Not sure why you want an impression of the showerhead. Fine if you have one & the result tastes good, but it's not tasting good because of that.


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## iulianato (May 5, 2015)

AndyJH said:


> I went back to basics today and just followed the instructions in the Sage manual, you can see I'm getting desperate! Also switched back to my SGP grinder and I can't get my Macap to grind finely enough. So, using the razor tool I filled the portafilter, taped using the Sage taper and just hit the double shot button. This pulled 50g from 22g in 30s and was probably the best shot I had
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably going back to basics is the best way to get going with it. It sound odd to me that you have trouble with SDB because I had really good shots with it and I found it very forgiving. Consistency is very easily affected by the distribution in pf and by the grind. If you have a naked pf use it to diagnose your shots.

The razor is helpimg you to overdose with the same amount every time (if same coffee is used) and to level so it will give you consistency if no other factors are intervening. And do not forget that the grinder is a very 'noisy' factor in this coffee story - means frustration source.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

I normally do focus on dose and yield, think this was the first time I pressed the double shot button on my machine. My aim has been around 18 in and 36 out and just using time as an indicator.

Only reason why I made comments regarding the puck was due to this thread starting with me talking about soggy pucks. Just observing that going back to the Sage manual and possibly over dossing with 22g, the puck was nice a good condition. Appreciate it's not the be all and end all


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Sage advice is presuming you have a Sage grinder and they cannot see to work out that not everyone has these. They overdose, I mean, do many people really dose at 22 gms? Even using a Sage grinder when I had one, I could never really get that good quality shot on a consistent basis. The DB is a really capable machine and deserves a better grinder......do you know anyone locally who can bring round a better grinder for you to try?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

AndyJH said:


> I normally do focus on dose and yield, think this was the first time I pressed the double shot button on my machine. My aim has been around 18 in and 36 out and just using time as an indicator.


You did say above that the better shot you had was 22:50g, this is a bit longer in ratio than 1:2. Maybe try aiming more like 20:50g, or 22:55g and see if you can taste a consistent improvement.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

dfk41 said:


> The Sage advice is presuming you have a Sage grinder and they cannot see to work out that not everyone has these. They overdose, I mean, do many people really dose at 22 gms? Even using a Sage grinder when I had one, I could never really get that good quality shot on a consistent basis. The DB is a really capable machine and deserves a better grinder......do you know anyone locally who can bring round a better grinder for you to try?


I do have a Sage grinder and I've also backed Niche so waiting for that as understand this is a key area to improve. In the meantime I've also bought a Macap flat burr grinder but I'm also struggling with that, hence I went back to what I know. The advantage of the SGP over the Macap is it is much quicker to use as the Macap is a dosser version which is a pain if changing grind settings frequently.

The point of dosing so high was just to go back to how a new user would start so I could attempt to gain a good shot and build from there. So many variables in this game I have been loosing the plot!


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

iulianato said:


> Probably going back to basics is the best way to get going with it. It sound odd to me that you have trouble with SDB because I had really good shots with it and I found it very forgiving. Consistency is very easily affected by the distribution in pf and by the grind. If you have a naked pf use it to diagnose your shots.
> 
> The razor is helpimg you to overdose with the same amount every time (if same coffee is used) and to level so it will give you consistency if no other factors are intervening. And do not forget that the grinder is a very 'noisy' factor in this coffee story - means frustration source.


I don't believe it's a problem with the DB, it's me









I do have a naked pf and was using that a lot but just gone back to normal pf reduce the number of variables I was trying to take account of. Do agree, it's a good tool and I will go back to using it again.

Recognise the grinder influence hence buying the Macap whilst waiting for the Niche.


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## AndyJH (Apr 25, 2017)

MWJB said:


> You did say above that the better shot you had was 22:50g, this is a bit longer in ratio than 1:2. Maybe try aiming more like 20:50g, or 22:55g and see if you can taste a consistent improvement.


Yes this was a change in approach as I wasn't getting very far with how I was doing it before. I will now start to reduce the dose as I personally don't want to continue with 22g. I'll try your suggestions as my next target, thanks.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Here's a long but interesting thread on the virtues of not updosing. It starts by recommending 14g-16g as a double dose, but goes in all kinds of directions and covers many issues.

https://www.home-barista.com/tips/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

les24preludes said:


> Here's a long but interesting thread on the virtues of not updosing. It starts by recommending 14g-16g as a double dose, but goes in all kinds of directions and covers many issues.
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/tips/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html


If you have a 20g basket, 20g isn't updosing. 14,16,18, 20, 22g (assuming an appropriate basket) all pulled to the same ratio and extracted to the same level will all be the same strength. Putting 14g in a 20g basket or 22g in a 16g basket are both likely to under-extract.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> Here's a long but interesting thread on the virtues of not updosing. It starts by recommending 14g-16g as a double dose, but goes in all kinds of directions and covers many issues.
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/tips/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html


That's from 2007 .....


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

AndyJH said:


> Yield changing for same dose and time which I guess indicates tamp pressure. Plus taste was fairly interesting on first attempt, no bitterness and bold mouth feel. After this they were slightly bitter again.
> 
> On the up side though the puck looks great dosing this way
> 
> ...


That's how I like the puck. I've only dosed the double with 18.8g so far but beans vary and I don't do shots with this bean very often. You'll probably find you can work up from that level if needed.







My son thought it was the dose for my BE. Way way too much and it's double is the same as the DTP's.

Thanks for the other post and weight with the razor on the double. It seems to set it the same height as the centre of the shower screen which is concave and it sets it flat. So the grinds are likely to hit the rim of the shower screen when the portafilter is fitted. Look that way to me so far anyway.

John

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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> Here's a long but interesting thread on the virtues of not updosing. It starts by recommending 14g-16g as a double dose, but goes in all kinds of directions and covers many issues.
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/tips/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html


Lots of long posts on there, indeed. The very last post though is priceless. He's got an Ohaus "Dial "O" Gram" in the garage!

Now I've googled it I understand what it is, but oh!, what a claim! To be able to say I have an Ohaus . . . .


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## Craig-R872 (Apr 4, 2016)

ajohn said:


> That's how I like the puck. I've only dosed the double with 18.8g so far but beans vary and I don't do shots with this bean very often. You'll probably find you can work up from that level if needed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why would you want too see the impression of the showerhead?

As I said in a previous post 20g works well and the pucks are dry and knock out really easy. I have had a Monsooned Malabar that worked at 18g but all my other beans have been 20g > circa 42g around 30 - 40 secs.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> Here's a long but interesting thread on the virtues of not updosing. It starts by recommending 14g-16g as a double dose, but goes in all kinds of directions and covers many issues.
> 
> https://www.home-barista.com/tips/basket-overdosing-time-for-serious-re-evaluation-t4501.html


As others have said most stock double baskets dose 14g-16g.

Sage double basket are similar to the 18g VST size wise and I dose 17g - 19g.

Anything greater or lesser than this doesn't work for me with my set up.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

It's not obvious to figure out what's the right dose in a 58mm basket which is 24mm to 24.5mm deep, which is all those below. e.g.

VST 18g - dose 17-19

IMS 12-18g - mid point here is 15g

Gaggia double - is a double the classic 14g here?

The depth is the same, though the taper may differ from straight to slightly conical.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Craig-R872 said:


> Why would you want too see the impression of the showerhead?
> 
> As I said in a previous post 20g works well and the pucks are dry and knock out really easy. I have had a Monsooned Malabar that worked at 18g but all my other beans have been 20g > circa 42g around 30 - 40 secs.


It's a habit I picked up on the BE, aiming to just about get an impression of it initially to maximise the dose in the basket but then I found the pip in the middle caused by the hole in the screen fixing screw could be used to keep my grinder timer on track. Checked lot of weights that produced on scales and then just used that as a guide. Fill height weight wise was just a touch over the point where the puck tends to stick to the shower screen. Too high and taste drops off. My BE was set up purely for monsooned. Any other bean was weighed in on another grinder and if needed programmed on the button I didn't use for monsooned. I've drunk several kg of that from the BE. Lost count of how many.

I suspect this wont work out on a DB but I haven't tried using a grinder timer yet. There might be some other feature but I have my doubts. I also used a coarser grind on a different bean on the BE and suspect it wouldn't work with that either.

I wouldn't dispute the figures you mention. On the only bean I use in the double on the DB I'm at 18.8g. Not drunk at all at the moment and may need more. I need to sort out MM to my particular taste first. The weights are of interest to me as it gives me an idea how much needs removing after the razor tool is used. That's my method of obtaining a guide weight when I haven't used a bean or basket before - the razor tool. The one on the BE seems to get closer to a sensible dose.

John

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