# ? Temp Surfing the Gaggia Classic Pro 2019 - Whats Your Technique?



## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Yep. I'm confused. I've watched a few videos out there and I'm still not sure if I'm getting this right. I know theres heaps of info out there but i need to explain my understanding of this in my own idiot way to see if anyone can help me here. I get this so far:

*Brew light ON = Boiler OFF Temperature Falling*

*Brew light OFF = Boiler ON Temperature Climbing*

So from what I understand, I'm trying to pick a point in the temp variation between the boiler going on and off (which i hear could be a 10-15º swing) and go at a given point where I can pull a shot at a consistent temperature, therefore removing the temp swing as a variable in the brewing process.

*This is what i'm doing:*

10-15 minute warm up, the brew light shows on *(Boiler OFF)*, telling me the boiler is full and ready to go. Now I'd guess that the temp would slowly be falling now at this point. By then I've already got my PF filled and ready for business. I then flush a few seconds out of the group head until the brew light goes off (Boiler ON), then pop in my PF (get my cup and scales underneath). Light goes back on (Boiler OFF) press the brew switch and fill my cup.

All nice and easy. 95% of my shots are all hitting my desired recipe and ratios: *18g in - 36g out - 26-30 seconds*. My issue is I think I am getting too many shots leaning on the 'Sour' side of things, which i'm reading that is either 'Under' Extracting or too low a brew temp. I would have thought that with the technique above I would be pulling my shot at the HIGHEST point in the temp swing of the GC?

Am I missing something obvious here?

Does this technique guarantee that I'm pulling shots at the same temp every time?

What else am I not thinking of that could be causing some sour shots?

Will be getting a PID from shades soon, so I know all this probably wont matter then, but i'm trying to get my head around the basics of this thing before I start modding.

All tips on surfing explained for an espresso newbie, gratefully appreciated.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

> Brew ratio is dependent on useable grind size, so if your﻿﻿ shots are sour at 1:2 & going finer chokes the machine, go longer on the ratio. Go as long as you ne﻿ed to for a tasty shot, but if this gets too weak by the time you achieve it, look at your prep (grindin﻿g into a cup/pot & transferring to PF, checking grounds weight in the PF, good distribution in the basket before tamping, tamping flat & even) & if that doesn't work, look at your grinder.


 Just replying to my own post here in case it helps anyone else: I've just read this reply from MWJB in another post about shot size. So maybe my inconsistency issue might not be temperature related?

Any thoughts on this?


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## Pants001 (Mar 13, 2019)

> I then flush a few seconds out of the group head until the brew light goes off


 This might be providing you with some inconsistencies. Your pouring out warm water and replacing it into the boiler with cold.

The thermostat is testing the boiler temp not the water temp so you've just added some more variables.

Ive been through this process of trying to do same thing each time and at the end of the day its all guess work.

My recommendation is to bite the bullet and get a PID kit. Its light and day difference.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Pants001 said:


> This might be providing you with some inconsistencies. Your pouring out warm water and replacing it into the boiler with cold.The thermostat is testing the boiler temp not the water temp so you've just added some more variables.Ive been through this process of trying to do same thing each time and at the end of the day its all guess work.
> 
> My recommendation is to bite the bullet and get a PID kit. Its light and day difference.


It's the quickest way to get the elements back on & he's waiting until the light goes on again so the water in the boiler will be fully heated. It's exactly what I used to do when I still ran on stats.

Totally agree on fitting a PID. If Gaggia had one on the Classic as standard, it'd be a dtp killer (especially if it also did pre-infusion).


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Pants001 said:


> This might be providing you with some inconsistencies. Your pouring out warm water and replacing it into the boiler with cold.
> 
> The thermostat is testing the boiler temp not the water temp so you've just added some more variables.
> 
> ...


 So even though i pull the shot just when the light turns on (boiler off) you dont think this guarantees that I'm at the top of the temp cycle?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

Pablo El Beano said:


> So even though i pull the shot just when the light turns on (boiler off) you dont think this guarantees that I'm at the top of the temp cycle?


So long as you do the same thing every time, you'll get consistant results.


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

ashcroc said:


> Pablo El Beano said:
> 
> 
> > So even though i pull the shot just when the light turns on (boiler off) you dont think this guarantees that I'm at the top of the temp cycle?
> ...


 Yep, totally get that. In addition, I think i'll try and press the steam button for a few seconds to raise the temp a few degrees and see if that hits a sweeter spot with the beans i'm using.


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## Pants001 (Mar 13, 2019)

The good thing with a PID is you can see exactly what the machine is doing, you can see how it reacts to heating up, how its reacts to a shot being pulled and how long it takes to get ready for a second shot. That and its made the gaggia now stupid proof for even the missus


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Pants001 said:


> The good thing with a PID is you can see exactly what the machine is doing, you can see how it reacts to heating up, how its reacts to a shot being pulled and how long it takes to get ready for a second shot. That and its made the gaggia now stupid proof for even the missus


 l'll get one sent over, but for now, the scientist in me is trying to work out how the fuck to tame this thing and not just leave it to the temperature gods to decide if I'm pulling a good shot or not...


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## Pants001 (Mar 13, 2019)

Ye before mine arrived i tried all this as well, my technique was to leave the machine for 10 mins to warm up, wait for the heating element to come on, then as soon as it switched off and the brew ready light came on, id blip the steam for 5 seconds. This gave a good shot but even doing the same thing i was getting different results.

Best of luck


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

There are a lot of variables that a PID helps with.

You still need to warm everything up, cup PF group head etc.

It takes time for the heat to transfer from the element to the water. So even when the light is off the temperature will increase for a good 5-10 seconds i guess before it starts to decrease. With a PID the on / off is less than a half second and the temperature fluctuates by less than a 0.2 of a degree.

As soon as water is pumped into the boiler the water cools so the PID helps in turning the element on sooner to reduce that effect while brewing.

And especially having higher temperature steam makes for much better frothing. That alone is worth a PID.

Also if you have to make two cups then you know when it's getting close to ready as you have to cool it down.

Trying to guess temperatures with a clock is like trying to drive to a speed limit by counting seconds between lamp posts, you just won't get the accuracy you need. :good:


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## Pablo El Beano (Jun 15, 2019)

Pants001 said:


> Ye before mine arrived i tried all this as well, my technique was to leave the machine for 10 mins to warm up, wait for the heating element to come on, then as soon as it switched off and the brew ready light came on, id blip the steam for 5 seconds. This gave a good shot but even doing the same thing i was getting different results.
> 
> Best of luck


 Got one on the way. So, what difference have you noticed since fitting yours and how are you using it to better your shots?


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## Pants001 (Mar 13, 2019)

Pablo El Beano said:


> Got one on the way. So, what difference have you noticed since fitting yours and how are you using it to better your shots?


 Really it comes down to knowing when to pull a shot. You can turn the machine on and leave it for 10 or so mins and the temp is spot on the set temp.

So basically you can pull a shot at any time after the warmup period. Likewise with the display you know when its ok to pull a second shot etc.

Steaming seams more powerful, you can set the steam temp via PID too.

So with all other things being static, im getting the same shot every time, and at the end of the day thats what this is all about.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

10 mins on only won't be enough to get the group up though....


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