# Vertical burr grinders e.g. EK43, Santos 01, Santos 04



## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

The Mahlkonig EK43 is a bit of a legend, but there are other vertical burr grinders like the Santos 01 and 04 models. Unlike the usual horizontal burr machines where the grounds come out sideways, the grounds drop down vertically. So handy for an on-demand grinder. I assume this also means less retention since gravity makes the grounds fall.

Am I right in thinking this is desirable technology? And if so why are these designs so much the exception?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

They were pretty typical designs for a long time. I'm not sure the Santos & EK-43 have that much in common other than the plane on which the burrs sit.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Royal+coffee+grinder&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGNI_en-GBGB534GB534&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZuJ_6r-7ZAhVpDcAKHdb8D7wQ_AUICygC&biw=1280&bih=775#imgrc=t-SwRCXrOXUaPM:&spf=1521118494771

These grinders need an auger to pull beans into the burrs, I guess it's easier & cheaper to build gravity fed grinders with beans falling straight into the burrs.

Kalita, Fuji, Kitchenaid also have grinders in this broad design.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Thanks for the post - the Royal is new to me. I think these vertical burr grinders are really pretty and retro. Like you say there are some really old models. Not quite sure how the augur works - will have to research the mechanics of it.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

les24preludes said:


> Thanks for the post - the Royal is new to me. I think these vertical burr grinders are really pretty and retro. Like you say there are some really old models. Not quite sure how the augur works - will have to research the mechanics of it.


Here's a good explanation. They're certainly not a new technology.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

And then there are burrs set at a downward angle such as the Monolith Flat.

Just realised the burrs are vertical in our old Hobart!


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Here's a good explanation. They're certainly not a new technology.


Of course - an Archimedes screw. Like the propellers in the Archimedes steamship from around 1840 - guess that's where the ship's name comes from. I had a meat grinder like that, come to think of it.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

MildredM said:


> And then there are burrs set at a downward angle such as the Monolith Flat.
> 
> Just realised the burrs are vertical in our old Hobart!


What are the results like? Looks awesome


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

KTD said:


> What are the results like? Looks awesome


You haven't seen the video yet?


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## BaggaZee (Jun 19, 2015)

MildredM said:


> And then there are burrs set at a downward angle such as the Monolith Flat.
> 
> ...


Increasingly I find myself on the Kafatek site poring over this grinder.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

BaggaZee said:


> Increasingly I find myself on the Kafatek site poring over this grinder.


The Monolith Flat is absolutely fascinating - really makes you want one! Grinders are frankly so boring looking. It needed a complete design makeover, and this is a good example of breaking with convention. For anyone interested in design this is a breath of fresh air. I'm assuming that a lot of us on this forum see coffee as an art form and are naturally creative, so appreciate innovation.

A grinder is little more than a motor and a set of burrs and some kind of channel for the beans in and the grinds out. Add some software control these days, but it's optional. This would make a good exercise for design students.

This is largely why I started the thread - I'd really like to own a 'different' grinder concept. Seems at least some people agree.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

les24preludes said:


> The Monolith Flat is absolutely fascinating - really makes you want one! Grinders are frankly so boring looking. It needed a complete design makeover, and this is a good example of breaking with convention. For anyone interested in design this is a breath of fresh air. I'm assuming that a lot of us on this forum see coffee as an art form and are naturally creative, so appreciate innovation.
> 
> A grinder is little more than a motor and a set of burrs and some kind of channel for the beans in and the grinds out. Add some software control these days, but it's optional. This would make a good exercise for design students.
> 
> This is largely why I started the thread - I'd really like to own a 'different' grinder concept. Seems at least some people agree.


Couldn't agree more. If I could find a capable horizontal grinder like an ek43 but with a London kitchen friendly footprint I'd get one in a shot.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

KTD said:


> What are the results like? Looks awesome


The results . . . think roughly rubbed coffee rather than ground!!!


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

les24preludes said:


> The Monolith Flat is absolutely fascinating - really makes you want one! Grinders are frankly so boring looking. It needed a complete design makeover, and this is a good example of breaking with convention. For anyone interested in design this is a breath of fresh air. I'm assuming that a lot of us on this forum see coffee as an art form and are naturally creative, so appreciate innovation.
> 
> A grinder is little more than a motor and a set of burrs and some kind of channel for the beans in and the grinds out. Add some software control these days, but it's optional. This would make a good exercise for design students.
> 
> This is largely why I started the thread - I'd really like to own a 'different' grinder concept. Seems at least some people agree.


You may as well sit back and wait until the next pre orders open up! It doesn't take a clairvoyant to see you will end up with one, one day in the future


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MildredM said:


> The results . . . think roughly rubbed coffee rather than ground!!!


If they're cast iron, couldn't they be fairly easily sharpened?


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

MWJB said:


> If they're cast iron, couldn't they be fairly easily sharpened?


Oh yes! Would that be doable with a file, do you reckon? We used to have an old chap in the village who sha'ppened scissors, he was great!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MildredM said:


> Oh yes! Would that be doable with a file, do you reckon? We used to have an old chap in the village who sha'ppened scissors, he was great!


Maybe not a file, something big, flat & abrasive, with a motor...so you're not at it all day.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Maybe not a file, something big, flat & abrasive, with a motor...so you're not at it all day.


Not sure there's enough meat left on those burrs to bring it back to a decent edge. Would be fantastic to see it brought back to A1 condition though.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

ashcroc said:


> Not sure there's enough meat left on those burrs to bring it back to a decent edge. Would be fantastic to see it brought back to A1 condition though.


I am not certain but I think there isn't enough left on the 'seat' to get them close enough together. I will have another look one day . . .



MWJB said:


> Maybe not a file, something big, flat & abrasive, with a motor...so you're not at it all day.


Ahh, I will dig out my angle grinder. It will need a new plug, it's pre war (and weighs a ton)!


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

MildredM said:


> You may as well sit back and wait until the next pre orders open up! It doesn't take a clairvoyant to see you will end up with one, one day in the future


I build amplifiers and do all the chassis work myself, so I can work with aluminium. I'm getting very tempted to construct a Frankengrinder. Seems the easy way to do it is to use larger conical burrs so the grinds go straight down. I've been looking at the HG1 with a thought to clone the basic idea. Also there are motor attachments for that - just get a DC brushless motor. It would make an interesting project. I don't want to sink more than £200 into this although I might get carried away if I start a project! It would probably be a case of cannibalising an existing grinder - something commercial size with big conical burrs, though they're not as cheap or as common as the bigger flat burrs.

In vertical designs I've also been looking at the Santos 01 and 04, but they'd have to be cheap. Lots of thoughts going round my head......


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