# preinfusion



## spasypaddy (Apr 11, 2016)

so i want to start playing with preinfusion. but have some questions:

1. 5 seconds on 2 seconds off is what i set it up to originally. do i then expect my shot to take an extra 7 seconds?

2. how do i decide on the preinfusion times?

3. should i be grinding even finer?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

spasypaddy said:


> so i want to start playing with preinfusion. but have some questions:
> 
> 1. 5 seconds on 2 seconds off is what i set it up to originally. do i then expect my shot to take an extra 7 seconds?
> 
> ...


 Which machine?

1. The overall shot is roughly the same, maybe an extra 5 seconds, but, overall in the grand scheme of things, I'd say the same. Don't get hung up on time. Focus on a ratio (18g in, 36g out in roughly 35 seconds, as an example).

2. By taste.

3. Shots flows faster after puck is saturated. You will need to just grind slightly finer, yes.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The more you pre infuse the quicker the resulting extraction will run

I dont use the pre preogrmmaed pre infusion on the Bianca , you will get more benefit from going manual and using the paddle manually.

Why are you doing 2 seconds off, won't really have any effect in my opinion not after 1.5 seconds on.

Some will pre infuse until first drop appear for instance .


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## spasypaddy (Apr 11, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which machine?


 bianca 😃 (just seen your update, thanks!)



Mrboots2u said:


> The more you pre infuse the quicker the resulting extraction will run
> 
> I dont use the pre preogrmmaed pre infusion on the Bianca , you will get more benefit from going manual and using the paddle manually.
> 
> ...


 oh ok, so i'll use the paddle. any advice on that?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

This is what i do .

I have the paddle so about 4ml a second comes out with no pf in ( around 7pm on a clock for my paddle calibration )

Pull a shot , at this setting pressure will build around 12- 16 seconds ish ( but time isn't so important ) and then pressure at the PF will rise to 8 to 9 bar ( my pump is set a 9 bar max )

Shot wise they can run from 30 to 40 seconds , but will run quicker after pre infusion if the paddle is left.

Experiemt though, use the paddle .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If pressure isn't rising above 6 bar then I'd grind finer And repeat but there is no set thing for this .

At least if you are using a naked pf and see the pick saturate you are in a decent place .

Some people will then move the paddle fully open , to extract , but remember this is only changing flow ( not pressure, pump remains static ) the pressure you see Is being measured at the PF.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

spasypaddy said:


> so i want to start playing with preinfusion. but have some questions:
> 1. 5 seconds on 2 seconds off is what i set it up to originally. do i then expect my shot to take an extra 7 seconds?
> 2. how do i decide on the preinfusion times?
> 3. should i be grinding even finer?


Base it all on taste. Don't aim for specific shot times.

I don't bother with auto pre-infusion, just use the paddle. Calibrate the paddle per DaveCs youtube instruction. Took me a few days experimenting to get it right but I haven't touched it since.

A bottomless portafilter and shot mirror will help you understand how pre-infusion is affecting flow, which together with taste + trial and error will help dial-in your use of the paddle.

There are endless combinations, which is both a good and a bad thing. Maybe try going extreme and then slowly fill in your experience of the space in between. What I mean by that is; try a 'standard' shot with no paddle use, then do an ultra-fine grind with a very slow pre-infusion - 20 seconds to reach 2bar pressure with a ramp up for the rest of the shot. See what the difference is in the two shots and experiment from there.


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## spasypaddy (Apr 11, 2016)

thanks everyone, lots of useful info there! keep it coming


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> Base it all on taste. Don't aim for specific shot times.
> 
> I don't bother with auto pre-infusion, just use the paddle. Calibrate the paddle per DaveCs youtube instruction. Took me a few days experimenting to get it right but I haven't touched it since.
> 
> ...


 Above is Also very good simple advice .

I tend to find i dont need to open the paddle to fully extract or hit decent pressure but this is of course a function of dose an grind also.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> Above is Also very good simple advice .
> I tend to find i dont need to open the paddle to fully extract or hit decent pressure but this is of course a function of dose an grind also.


Agreed, I get best results when opening it to around 6 o clock and just beyond.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

With my current grinder I found this to give the best results, not that different from the good advice above though. I don't focus on time just taste and hitting a higher ratio shot in terms of weight out.

1-Slow ramp up to 2bar with paddle less than 1/8 of a turn open

2-Shut off until you get around 2 grams out, might need a slight flow top up

3-Ramp up to 6-8bar flat profile for darker and lighter roasts respectively


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Slightly off topic but not quite - out of curiosity - how does the "pre-programmed pre-infusion" work on the Bianca? @Mrboots2u?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Slightly off topic but not quite - out of curiosity - how does the "pre-programmed pre-infusion" work on the Bianca? @Mrboots2u?


 Ive never used it

I am guessing but it won't control or programme flow variables sure @DavecUKknows better than me


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Slightly off topic but not quite - out of curiosity - how does the "pre-programmed pre-infusion" work on the Bianca? @Mrboots2u?


You pull the lever up, the pre-progeamme then kicks in to switch the pump on for a set number of seconds, then off for a set number of seconds, then on again until you manually pull the lever down


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

KingoftheHeath said:


> MediumRoastSteam said:
> 
> 
> > Slightly off topic but not quite - out of curiosity - how does the "pre-programmed pre-infusion" work on the Bianca? @Mrboots2u?
> ...


 If that is while the pump runs at max pressure then it's essentially useless


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