# Changing Piccino pf/group washer - Help from the experienced!



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi Chaps 

Having had a few leaking/spraying issues I am setting about replacing the group gasket/washer on my Piccino - which tbh even without leaks is something I should:

a) Do every so often and

b) Be able to do.

So having received a replacement in the post (from Fracino so should be a decent one etc) I set about it this morning....

I also got a new washer for the steam wand tip at the same time...

Scanned youtube for videos.....

Nothing Fracino/Piccino specific so I watched a few for other makes....

Lots of similarities so I decide to go for it...

Expecting that the old one might be very old I am expecting I might have to dig it out a bit...

1) Remove tank - tick

2) Remove pf handle - tick

3) Un-plug - tick

4) Tip onto its back so I can get at it - tick

5) Look to see if I can see/just grab and remove old washer - No..

6) Remove filter screen - tick

7) Can I see/get at it more now... - No!

The washer (or what I assume is the washer as it is black) appears to be partially behind/held in place by the "thing that the pf slots into"

ie The surface is totally flat with (apparently) the metal ring of the "thing that the pf slots into" and then an inner ring of the washer (or a black ring anyway). The washer seems very shiny and "hard"

This makes me think that the washer is definitely in need of replacement (but I knew that anyway)....

OK I can't see that the washer is going to "just come out"... maybe the "thing that the pf slots into" needs to come off first?

There are no visible screws/bolts etc externally so that means taking the top off... a bit of faff but some obvious screws and things which are fairly accessible so.....

8) Pull off plastic outer Steam Knob

9) Unscrew nut holding brass Steam Knob onto panel

10) Undo 2 x phillips screws holding the lower part of the panel (they are basically either side of the pf gubbins)

11) Undo 2 x allen bolts holding the top part of the panel (two different fixings for a single panel!!!)

12) Move the panel out of the way so see whats inside

At this point I haven't disconnected any wires etc as I am just having a look....

COME ON!!!! wtf is going on here - the "thing that the pf slots into" is fixed onto the rest of the group head with 6 x allen bolts which are substantially bigger than the 2 allen bolts holding the panel on!!!!

I really cannot believe that I would need to dismantle the machine to that extent just to change a group head washer??

So - here I am seeking advice from the more experienced among you.

Do I need to dismantle the group head to change the washer?

Or is the old washer so old/compressed etc that I will need to dig it out?

All help/advice gratefully received.

PS the steam wand washer was a case of

1) unscrew steam tip

2) Pop out old washer with tip of flat blade screw driver

3) Pop on new washer

4) Screw tip back on


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Cannot believe you need to dismantle the group head to change the gasket. If it's anything like an E61 (and I'm pretty sure it is) then the best way, if it's firmly embedded, is to stick something sharp in the group head gasket and attempt to wurgle(sp.?) (technical term) it out. If it's really knackered it may disintegrate during this process. If so, dental picks are the tool of choice. (Here at least!) Good luck!


----------



## johnnygee04 (Mar 16, 2015)

After reading this I'll be having a look at my own Piccino. I'll also be following your future progress reports; good luck sorting it out.


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

johnnygee04 said:


> After reading this I'll be having a look at my own Piccino. I'll also be following your future progress reports; good luck sorting it out.


Could you have a shufti now please - and let me know if your washer/gasket is obvious? (I would "expect" it to be proud of the metal surface of the rest of the group)

Ta


----------



## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

You definitely do not need to dismantle the Piccino to get to the PF.

If my old memory serves me well it will have to be poked out with the aid of something pointy and sharp. If it's knackered it doesn't matter if you wreck it to remove it.

Ian


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Eyedee said:


> You definitely do not need to dismantle the Piccino to get to the PF.
> 
> If my old memory serves me well it will have to be poked out with the aid of something pointy and sharp. If it's knackered it doesn't matter if you wreck it to remove it.
> 
> Ian


Thanks Ian - I was always going on the assumption that I might have to dig it out..

I was just expecting it to be more obviously a washer to remove.

It's 8.5mm thick and what I have at the moment seems to be flush (with the metal of the group/pf holder.....

Even allowing for a deepish groove I would expect "something" to be proud of the back surface.

The pf (now) sits just a few degrees past 6 o'clock when locked & I would expect 8.5 mm to be something like 45 degrees of rotation

ie more rotation than full "load to lock".

Now I know I don't have to dismantle the group head I'll more confidently have a dig/scrape around to get the old one out (and hopefully it'll all become clear  )

Obviously I won't be digging around now - I'll start fresh in the morning.


----------



## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm no expert. BUT I previously removed these from non piccino machines by putting a small screw or two 4/5 mm in to the rubber to get purchase and then grabbing and pulling with pincer nose pliers.


----------



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

If you prise out the shower screen (I'm presuming the piccino doesn't have the screw in shower plate?) then the group,seal will come out with it. The shower screen should be regularly removed and cleaned anyway.


----------



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

OP said he has already removed the screen.


----------



## johnnygee04 (Mar 16, 2015)

I didn't check back last night and my machine is now warmed up, but Ive had a look at the washer. It sits flush and like you I would begin by removing the shower screen and the screen holder to give better access. It looks like it'll be a bugger to get out and a variety of tools, sharp implements and patience will be needed to dig it out.

Dunno if you have these parts lists and exploded diagrams:

http://www.fracino.com/downloads/parts/Piccino%202010%20-%202012.pdf

Regards John


----------



## johnnygee04 (Mar 16, 2015)

I should've started by saying that I hope you've got it sorted. I changed the washer on my Classic a couple of times, only having to remove the screen and screen holding plate for access; I can't see the Piccino being any different. The washers had always baked hard and needed to be destroyed to get them out.

I have the problem of heated water slowly dripping from inside my Piccino, exiting around the group when I'm extracting a shot. From looking at the diagrams it could be the group o-ring, but I'm not going to know without taking the lid off. Not looking forward to having the machine off the run for any length of time.


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Right - armed with Ian's confirmation I got stuck in this morning...

I tried screwing in a sharp screw and pulling out with mole grips - but the screw just popped out with some odd bits of perished rubber.

So I used a small sharp flat bladed screwdriver and prodded/poked and generally levered it about...

Yaaay!!! Out it popped (in several bits) - perished to b*gg*ry, each bit could be snapped by bending a few degrees...

During this exercise the (brass) diffuser plate dropped out (up until this point I had thought that it was an integral part of the group head).

It had obviously been "welded" to the rest of the head with coffee oils/gunk!

So I cleaned everything off with vinegar (initially to melt the gunk) then a pan scourer and copious amounts of water and elbow grease and popped the new washer on and reassembled.....

* When I got the machine (and a couple of times since) I had removed the shower screen and cleaned out the coffee gunk - but as there were no fixings for the dispersion plate and it hadn't come off with fairly rough treatment I had decided that it was integral to the group and not a separate part.

(My old gaggia had this plate fixed by a couple of screws/allen bolts). Obviously this means that I hadn't been cleaning it properly!!

This highlights the "need" for a decent manual for the machine - Oh well live and learn...

Machine switched on and warmed up and flushed a fair amount through to clear any vinegar residue and I'll be having a coffee soon...

Thanks again to Ian for the definitive confirmation that I didn't need to disassemble the whole group head!!!

Plus all others for advice.


----------



## ChilledMatt (May 9, 2015)

Fracino actually sell a bradawl to remove the washer. It's just a bradawl though so no need to buy it.


----------



## almoalmo (Jul 12, 2012)

I phoned Fracino yesterday at 16.30 and spoke to Sue in spares regarding a new group head seal. It arrived at 10.00 this morning, you cannot get service better than that! Well done Fracino. It took 5mins to hook the old seal out with an old bradawl and fit the new one. brewing again at 10.30.


----------



## Supermartyo (May 16, 2013)

I did this a short while ago, just used a couple of screws to screw through the gasket and then push off. Simples really.


----------



## Geoff White (Feb 18, 2021)

Guys

I know this is an old thread but it gave me enough detail to have a go at changing the group head seal myself, by the way I am a total DIY disaster zone.

However, I must say that the experiences that Drewster had are a totally different to what I had.

Showerhead screw came out easily as did the showerhead and screen. I screwed a small self tapping screw into the seal ring and pulled it out by hand. Fitted a new seal ring straight in without the need for any lubricant, checked it was properly seated and reattached showerhead and screen assembly.

All good this end.


----------

