# Help me do a shot right!



## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi (again), Im new to all this espresso malarchy- so pls bear with me. Sorry if its longish.

Ive bought a used Classic which was not used for agesso had a very persistant airlock. I stripped it all down (bar the boiler/ no leaks so I assume gasket is ok), & sorted the airlock (pump). I checked the solonoid so far as I could, ie 1.2K on the terminals (*), & cleaned: solonoid holes, adjacent valve holes, all boiler holes, group head area etc etc. Put together I ran thru 1 Puly descaler sachet. After a few calcium clogs sorted/ general chuggings, I got it to work (afaik as it should) that much I know. Its whether its working correctly, whether my technique &/ or grinding is not up to par, or what.. cos Ive got thru 3 bags of beans now & not a shot seems right!

I've a basic burr grinder set on finest, I put a level P'filter's worth in & give it a firmish tamp/ as Ive seen XX times on Ytube etc by now. Every shot comes out yes, but a lg shot-glass is filled within say 10 secs flat (just 6 secs for a shot) & always a poor weakish shot too, far from the strong'ish espresso I'd expect. It seems the water speed is too fast, so I have to switch off brew bttn before the full extraction of all the coffee has been reached. Or something.

As a test I tried: grinding coffee thru a 2nd time, then a third to get super-fine (possibly too much/ it was a test) to see if the grinding was the issue. Now I get a few drips of far thicker, richer-looking coffee (great), but then the pump seems to think its all a bit too compact, starts to strain & forces water back into tank.

Qs: 1) If one has for eg ground the coffee too fine, &/ or tamped the b'stard too firmly.. would you expect the machine to perform as mine did with my super-fine test/ ie struggling to get coffee out then deviating back into tank?

2) If my grinder is to blame, then I cant possibly afford £70+ odd on one to get the vv fine grind needed.. so is there any ground coffee that is designed/ ground especially for espresso machines? I know its sacriligeous to ask- but I just want a decent shot; I don't expect barista-brown-crema-perfection (tho that'd be fab of course). Just a decent shot, that's all.

Thanks, Chief.

3) Is my figure of ~1.2K ohms in the right ballpark?


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

Hi Chief,

The first thing to ask (I'm sure others will echo this) is what beans are you using and are they fresh (ie within 2 weeks of roast date). When you use fresh coffee, the hot water causes it to swell, which makes the puck tighter in the basket. I believe this is why stale coffee needs a finer grind.

If you have fresh coffee, I'd then look at the grinder. What grinder do you own currently? I'm guessing it's probably a dualit type burr grinder. These won't grind fine enough to produce proper espresso. Your best bet if you don't want to spend around £100 on an iberital MC2 is to get a hand grinder like the porlex or hario mini for around £30.

Unfortunately you'll never get a good shot from preground (in my opinion). You will have read about people endlessly tweaking their grinders to get the right resistance, and with uniform grind you completely lose that, not to mention the coffee will probably already be stale by the time you get it home!

If I were you I would either go for a hand grinder or try and find a second hand grinder on here or on ebay. Alternatively you could just buy a few brew methods and really 'get in' to brewed coffee, as it's cheaper and your grinder will be fine for it.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

1. Yes. The three way solenoid and OPV are designed to prevent too much pressurised water reaching the group head. The ideal pressure at the group head is 9 bar, according to common belief. The Classics are set at a slightly higher threshold as standard, and some people therefore like to adjust the OPV. But to answer your question, yes, you should absolutely expect water back in the tank. If you didn't then you wouldn't have adequate resistance in the puck... which seems to be the problem you're experiencing ... seemingly due to the grind being too coarse.

2. If you must use pre-ground then your best bet is to buy it from a decent roaster who will grind it for you... at least it will be a good blend and freshly roasted, even if being pre-ground it will have lost a lot of it's good qualities. You could always ask Starbucks or Costa to grind it for you, but there's always the risk that the barista there won't have a clue what the best setting is for pre-ground espresso. Also bear in mind that coffee is hygroscopic, even when ground I think, so it will respond differently at different times of the day and on different days. Sometimes the shot will be faster, sometimes slower. Using whole beans and adjusting the grind is how we get around that.

3. I got an F in A-Level physics. Sorry.

Glad to see you didn't ditch the idea of making your own espresso. Quality does come at a cost, and they say a good grinder is probably the most important purchase, but something tells me you will find a cost-effective solution


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks chaps-

the main thing is it sounds like the Gaggia is working correctly if answer to my 1) is a yes. That's a relief/ never even seen an espresso machine b4 2 weeks ago, let alone the inside of one!

Which leaves it down to my grind size as the issue then (big shame my burr-grinder is brand new, compact design- perfect so I thought). Im not focussing on optimum bean freshness as any issue, tbh that's getting -way- too far ahead, and too fussy IMO; ironically the best shot so far has come from stale ground M&S crappy coffee!! which I ground again (once) for a test as Id spent/ ploughed thru 3 bags of beans. Besides I've always used very decent beans, Monmouth, for my mokapot (not ideal hence the Gaggia 'upgrade'/ a distinct downgrade so fa to my stovetop). I always keep beans in freezer till I grind for a cup- no fresher than that. Or 2nd choice Fairtrade co-op dark espresso beans, don't sniff, for which I used to get this machine running, but are actually perfectly fine/ pretty decent quality in fact. Both beans came out as said- poor shots/ barely drinkable with either and little discernable difference to each other too fwiw.

If this is all down to grind size, and one having to spend no less than £100 say on a flamin over-engineered grinder from the depths of Germany in order to get a Gaggia to work right Id have thought twice about the espresso machine idea altogether tbh: its frankly quite ridiculous.

So, I cant use my grinder, as grinding 2x/3x puts too much stress on the motor, so I cant use beans/ cant use my fav Monmouth coffee Ive bought for years: hugely dissapointing. I'm loathed to ask as I sniff at it in the s'markets.. but what about Lavazza ground stuff? is one or other the correct super-fine grind for espresso machines? I cant go to a coffee shop for them to grind as Im on my own way out in sticks here- but thanks for the suggestion.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

To be fair, it's not just Gaggia machines. This is just the nature of espresso. A multitude of factors, and it's tough to get them all lined up right, especially at first. It's quite common for keen people to jump in at the start and buy kit from places like Argos, and soon realise it doesnt do the job they got it for. Espresso is a pain.

Try the Lavazza grinds, or a can of Illy







I had to use a small can of decaf Illy vaccuum packed grinds once and the extraction was actually great, and the customer loved it. Just make sure it's ground for espresso. (Pity it exploded in my face when I opened the can... take care!)


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

The latest Classics come with a pressurised basket which should allow you to make passable espresso's with a cheap burr grinder. Lots of people upgrade these to a proper basket so there's probably someone on here (or ebay maybe), who you can get one off at minimal expense.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Cheers Mike. I'll try the Illy, if I find it- I don't think old Mrs Jeffreys sells it in the village shop tbh!

I can't believe what a pain & a balancing act making a damn coffee is in these machines tbh. I'll have another go at 3x bean grinding as it does seem this is the issue (perhaps 4x to get to the powder it seems to need) until the motor fails likely v quickly.. or I'll just shelve the espresso idea and put the stovetop back on from my Monmouth beans/ 'coptor grinder.. that works/ simple too. 3 bags of beans, hours of head-scratching/ the gaggia stripped down and re-assembled 3x now as I was sure it had to be a machine issue and still not one decent, even drinkable shot.. that's a joke too far- Im running out of patience with this espresso business! thanks tho for the help.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

AlIam said:


> The latest Classics come with a pressurised basket which should allow you to make passable espresso's with a cheap burr grinder. Lots of people upgrade these to a proper basket so there's probably someone on here (or ebay maybe), who you can get one off at minimal expense.


I'm not sure what a 'pressurised basket' is tbh/ whether mine is one of these (I assume not as it looks a few years old min). One thing I tried/ came with it, dumbfounding me as much as making a shot itself, is a rubber disc thing which goes under the coffee apparantly, in the P'filter (I assume here/ it cant go anywhere else it seems). It has one tiny 1/2mm hole in the middle, and far from the fast weak shot Im accustomed to (no sniggering at the back) no coffee emerged at all.. exactly as I assumed/ I mean what the heck is the point of putting in a seal below the coffee?!? there's no physical way for it to come out, the water back-tracks out to the water tank. It must be some kind of blank is all I can think/ perhaps an older P'filter backflush thing, tho according to the Classic manual its a 'crema device'. EH? Utterly, utterly flummoxed with this machine I am.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

You know, I'm not sure your water should be diverting back to the tank EVER.

Say you're back flushing your classic with cleaning solution (where you put a blanking plate in the PF so you can clean your shower plate, group head and solenoid). You turn on the pump and water goes the usual route to the PF which is can't escape from, then the pressure builds up about as much as the little pump can bear, then it reaches it's limit. No water goes back to the tank, then when you switch the pump off ALL the water (plus cleaning solution) goes via the solenoid and over flow pipe into the waste tray.

However small a hole there is in the "crema device" I'm sure 11 bar will force some coffee through it unless something is wrong elsewhere in the machine.

Does this "crema device" look like this?










You'd be surprised how fine the coffee has to be for a 25s shot. I use setting zero on my Baratza Virtuoso and only just get it with a very firm tamp. I've no idea how these people manage to get 60s shots out of it. They must be using a powder like grind.

I'd say the level of importance to a decent shot are like this:

3) Freshness of coffee

2) Grind of the coffee

1) Distribution in the basket and tamp

Possibly one and two and be switched but once you have a fine enough grind I'd say number one comes into play and makes soooo much difference you wouldn't believe.

Anyway, all this boils down to the fact that I think you might have some sort of fault with your classic.

Don't give up. You're trying to blame the machine but you're not giving it the ingredients it needs to work right


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi Mr. Chimp. Damn so I might have an machine issue then.. that's put a spanner in the works.

What I meant by water goes back in tank is thus. I used vv fine grind, too much so prob + tamped massively/ it was only as a test to see if the machine did anything different to my usual fast pour, which it did; so, I turned brew switch on& got a few drips of v strong coffee, then pump sound diminished & seemied to strain, then released the water -in a steady stream- (as pump continued/ still on) into the tank via the black pipe off the top of the solonoid, thus the strain/ pressure released. Then I turned brew/ pump off. The results seemd to make sense, rather than 'what's the machine doing that for'. But I need to find out. I wouldn't have thought a steady stream of the water being pumped via the front excess pipe into the drip-tray would be right to expect.. would it? I thought that path was for the little water excess -after- brew switch/ pump turned off.

I really need to ascertain then if this is how the Classic would behave (IE if puck WAY too fine and tamped WAY too firmly) before I think about grind now it seems: would someone be kind enough to try for me? effectively so almost no water could conceivably get thru puck.. again this is a test situation, ie as if one had innadvertantly tamped too hard with too fine a grind.

My crema device doesnt look like that bar the diameter and the hole, mine's rubber and only 6mm deep, it sits under the P'Filter not in place of it, according to the manual. Even with my grind not powder-fine I got not a drop from it. I forget what the pump did, I assume diverted back to tank via the pipe off the top of solonoid/ twds rear of tank as my test did above.

Thanks for the help- an even more confused, Chief.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

You might be right about the water diverting from the black pipe on top of the solenoid I've just never noticed it because obviously my return pipe is submerged in the water tank. I suppose if the pump just continued to pump and build up pressure it wouldn't be right otherwise it would eventually just explode.







so it has to go somewhere.

Putting a blanking plate in the PF (for back flushing) is about as sealed as you can get. I just find it hard to believe you've managed to get a grind so fine that it's clogged up this machine. 11bar is quite a lot of pressure.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Ive re-read your previous post and it makes sense, I understand the backflush analogy (tho not done as of yet/ the blank plate was awol with mine). I'm holding out that once the prssure builds up and no-where to go (before switch off) it should deviate into tank.. & Im guessing that's precisely why its there. With the backflush I think the idea is to switch on for a short period -until- the pressure threshold is near/ on, keeping the pressure contained to whip back down front pipe, if you keep the pump on say 30 secs max again Im guessing it would go out the overflow pipe back to tank until switched off. But as said Ive only seen these beasties a couple of weeks (and I remember the Deluxe has a 2nd silicone pipe so would indeed any excess down it wouldnt actually be noticed).

A relative 'phew' is in order! that's good. Yes I eally did push the tamper as hard as poss, and ground the coffee to within an inch of its life.. just needed a definitive answer to my head-scratching/ I dont need to do it again.

Ive thought of a good(?) temporary grind solution/ idea.. grind my beans once in my rubbish burr grinder as fine as, then pestle & mortar a shot's worth each time to get down a notch or two to what's needed!! haha- what an arse, but might just be the ticket tho.

Will post if successful later. Or post more miserable grumpings!

Many thanks- invaluable help.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I didn't have my new grinder at first when I got the classic but splashed out the minute I realised my old Morphy Richards one wasn't going to cut it. For the couple of days between I would grind twice, then pestle and mortar for a bit then sieve it. This left the bigger grinds for more pestle & mortaring and a really consistent fine powder for the PF. Consistency is almost as important as granularity otherwise channels can form to allow the water through too fast.


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Chief

I don't know that much about the machine workings, but my understanding is: brew water passes from the pump to the group head via the solenoid. When the shot is stopped - regardless of whether there has been a shot pulled or not really - there will be excess brewing water in the group head. The solenoid flips to direct that excess grouphead water through the silver pipe into your drip tray. I assume any excess water that hasn't passed through the solenoid valve would go straight back to the tank.

anyway, from a use perspective, you would see some water going back into the tank, but that water should never show any indication of having been in contact with coffee (or cleaning material if backflushing) - all that should be diverted into your drip tray.

I'm afraid I haven't got much advice on the grinder front. Freshly roasted and freshly ground coffee does create much slower shots. Rested coffee beans, and coffee which has been ground more than a few minutes before, will both provide less resistance to the water. As has been discussed, the entry level grinders recommended for espresso are about £100+, unless you happen on a good 2nd hand deal. I've heard of people having success with burr hand grinders (hario or porlex - £30ish), but it's nnot something I've ever tried, so couldn't say. Sorry I can't be more helpful!


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

My Classic doesn't do the spurt-down-frontpipe thing on switch-off for the few secs' grouphead/ showerhead clean (ie having just removed the P'filter after a shot).. I think that's correct? I assume so as there's no resistance.

Can anyone check that's right? If so I can finally give the Classic a clean bill of health thats the best I can hope I think (so its defo 100% my technique).

As to shots.. Im slowly getting s'where near a shot in ~25 secs.. thats good (not tasting great tho) thats nearly a week trying to do now! 2x grind, then firm tamp. I cant be arsed with P&M'ing as oddly, after a good wrist-aching 10 or so grinds (now stop it!) my umpteenth batch of tests seemed to be no different to 2x burr grinding. Cant work that one out.

Im amazed at just what a tiny 'window' of perfection one needs to use this machine.. even doing the same shot in succession I can't replicate it: 1st in 25s and ok/ fairly good (tho sour-tasting).. the next 35s and bitter (and whilst pretty slow coffee drippings, some water was going down the rear excess pipe during pour/ prob a mite too much tamp). It seems it needs such absolute perfection & I cant see how, without some ott pressure-guaged-tamp-thing, I can ever be sure of what's going to appear or how it will taste.

Coffee used: Co-op 'finest' Italian espresso beans, bought 1 hr before tests last night, ground 10 mins before shot tests. Ok not high quality beans but perfectly decent. Im already 1/2 thru the bag 12 hr later! its all getting a bit expensive too.

I guess its fork out another £100 for some nasa-engineered ginder, or sell it. Bit of a shame after so much time. Thx Chief.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

My front downpipe gives a squirt into the drip tray the moment I turn the pump off. Also a little bit goes out there too when I take the PF off after making my coffee. I guess there is just a bit of pressure left that's being released.

I think you've over exaggerating the complication of the Classic somewhat. With the right equipment you can produce a perfect shot every time with no effort at all and with minimal trial and effort.

Routine:

0.1) Turn on machine 10 mins before needed and insert empty PF to warm it all up

0.2) Set grinder to setting zero

1) Weigh 18g beans and put in grinder

2) Run some hot water through PF into the cup you want your coffee in (to warm cup)

3) Take off PF (quick wipe with paper towel) and grind all the beans into it.

4) Use bent paperclip to evenly distribute grinds (this is really important I've found)

5) Give a firm tamp and polish with a well fitting tamper (again very important to have good fit and even tamp)

6) Put PF back on machine

7) Put cup underneath with scales under it.

8) Turn on pump and run until scales read 30g, turn off, settles at about 32g.

9) Enjoy a consistent espresso every time









The whole thing must take me about 2 mins if that.

I then take off the PF, tap the puck (Which is firm and basically dry) into the bin.

Rinse the PF under the tap

Put it back on the machine

Run a couple of seconds of water through it.

Rinse under the tap again

Wipe the shower head with paper towel, then wipe the PF.

Job done.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Can anyone just tell me: **without** portafilter in & brew switch on for a short rinse.. what does the LHS front excess pipe do:

A) nothing appears

B) the same squirt appears as if it does after a shot (ie WITH portafilter still in).

C) a fraction appears.

Im still trying to establish if my Classic is working correctly- I thought I was there, but, during my last shot (25 secs, and crema, and ok tasting so somewhat of a success!) water was simultaneously being dispensed via the pipe-from-the-top-of-the-valve-prior-to-the-solonoid back to the tank. Not gushing, but Id say half was going to shot/ 1/2 was going back to tank. I do not know if this is normal, or not. It seems as a guess not. Also I got a wet puck with this shot even having the solonoid/excess/front-pipe squirt as expected on switch off. That doesn't seem right -more often than not I got dry pucks with these tests shot tho.

This is as best Ive got a shot.. and such a finely balanced effort it took me 3 attempts/ 2 had to be binned beforehand. Well over half an hour! its all a bit ridiculous & Im back head-scratching again with the rear pipe-to-tank thing going on.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Hi Chief...

The answer regarding the front pipe is 'A'... with no portafilter fitted all the water comes out through the shower screen.

The answer once again regarding the rear pipe to the tank is that yours is working as expected and just as mine does. If anyone elses doesn't do that then it is theirs that is bust not yours







(chimps, that might explain why your machine doesn't do a 60 sec shot... maybe none of the pressurised water is being diverted away from the group head into the tank.)

A little more from me, Chief... The entry-level for making drinkable espresso is higher than joe public realises, I'm afraid. Yes, it can be easy, but not if you're beneath the entry-level threshold. I hate talking about money and budgets but as you've said, you're at a point where you need to decide whether you want to spend the money on an espresso grinder. If you do, it seems to me that you will make big improvements in your espresso. Let me explain...

Most people think it's about the machine, but that's just one factor. Espresso-making can be split into four components (the 4M's but I'll spare you the Italian!):

- Machine

- Beans/Blend

- Person

- Grinder

It sounds to me like you are on the right track with the Machine. The Beans you're choosing will suffice (but will encourage bitterness). The Person... you clearly have a technical mind and that puts in a stronger position than most people new to espresso, so if you wanted to then I'm sure you could learn how to make espresso well. Therefore your Grinder seems to be the main thing holding you back.

Before spending any more, have a think about whether you really want to go down this route. You'll need all of the following, and I don't know which ones you have:

- machine

- grinder (£100?)

- tamper (not the shitty plastic one, but one that fits well. Think £40 new, but I reckon you will be able to buy one from someone 2nd hand)

- cleaning materials ... brush/powders etc. You can not make espresso without very clean equipment due to the oils becoming rancid quickly.

Everything else is a bonus and not strictly speaking necessary.

But bear in mind that although this would probably get you to a stage where you were making acceptable espresso, even with the above, you're not guaranteed it on a regular basis (in my view). In the words of the former world champion barista Gwylim Davies...



> Some times I serve a bad shot. I do not intend to, I do not want to, I try very hard not to but sometimes it just happens.


That's why people refer to espresso as an art. People spend more than the entry-level on further devices, aids, training, better beans etc because it improves their chance of getting consistently good espresso.

I'm just saying this to help you make a Go/No-Go decision. I hope you don't mind, and I hope its a Go!

All the best,

Mike


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Mike thanks again-

Ok that's good A) etc.

Apologies for repeating but I really need to doublecheck this: during the pump process of say 20 secs or so of my last shot, approx half the pumped water was being simultaneously diverted (actually from top of valve prior to the solonoid/ not from top of solonoid as I wrongly said b4) straight back to water tank. Can you just confirm this is correct? (I think you did- I do need to be dead sure).

rgds Chief.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

No apologies necessary!

Here's a video I just knocked up showing the water returning to the tank.

[video=youtube;BEsrzP-8x8o]






If my machine is broken then I never want to get it fixed







This was Costa Rica Finca de Licho from Has Bean, and it was absolutely lovely







))

FYI this is a triple basket not a double, using a bottomless portafilter. 25g of beans, 33g of beverage, 73% brewing ratio, just under 1oz if the line on that glass is anything to go by, which it isn't!


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## sicknote (Sep 5, 2011)

The beans your using could be 6-12 months old. Why don't you order some freshly roasted beans and see how you get on with those before spending more money on equipment? If your still not impressed then perhaps its time for a different grinder.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Now -that- is a reply to my Q, and some! thanks a bunch Mike. Im happy mine is AOK after that then (bar the odd wet puck, but hey the solonoid does its squirty-buisiness as it should beforehand, so its working fine as far as Im concerned.. which is the main thing really). That shot looks heavenly- I think Id probably fall over after such a walloping shot! Ive never tried, or even seen one of those magnificent looking specimens in my life (now stop it).

So its the grind only really then: what a bore -pun intended. I'll go for preground espresso-schmuck then/ whatever's ok for now, and see if I can cope w'out my Monmouth wake-up call.. and throw my tat one in the sea.

The thought of a DIY burr grinder has just passed thru my head. It involves very heavy mill stones and animals going round and round like a scene from 2000 BC. Im going off now to test how big a bag of spuds my whippet can haul across the garden.

Thanks chaps, Cheif.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Well I finally got a good (single) shot! well relative to what I was getting before..










Buddha looks pretty chuffed- here he is doing his tamping duties! hehe.. he's quite heavy & a perfect fit once his base was whittled down a bit. (I always thought he was mahogany, er no- thick acrylic!).










You see my cheapo grinder, the shot was 2x ground + a v firm tamp from buddha (I measured out 25gms to see how much Mike used for his vid- blimey O'Reilly no wonder its thick!). It tasted rather fabulous too I must say -totally- different to the weak sour/ or bitter one's Ive been struggling with.. smooth and creamy, quite a revelation tbh! Just a Q of how long the grinder lasts- not expecting it to as 2nd grind makes motor strain. Fine for now & my coffee odyssey finished for now too- great.

A big thanks to Mr Chimp, Mike and Roland for your input. I was going to jack it in if it wasn't for your replies/ encouragement. Regards Chief.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm going to have to look close at my tank now. I have 2 clear(ish) tubes going into it. I can only assume one is for getting water out of the tank and into the machine and I guess the other one might be this mythical return pipe you talk of. I seem to remember some bubbles coming out of it before now but I've never really looked at it. That might be the water returning to the tank and forcing some air out of the tube?

Maybe I'll do you a little film tomorrow too


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Sounds like it. Mine doesn't have a tube leading into the tank for the return pipe, just an outlet above the tank, so on mine it's easy to see the water running back in. I can understand why you wouldn't see that if there's a tube on the return outlet.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

I saw the 2nd clear silicon pipe is on some of these Classics/ Coffee Deluxe's, on others its awol like mine and Mike's vid. I guess it makes no real difference, the rear one could be taken off the black nubbin whatsit if needs be Id think; but Id say there must be more resistance with it on/ immersed, which I dont see the point of. I bet its there as more a cosmetic thing, ie any drips or flow from it 'hidden'.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I just went back and looked at my first extraction video I posted in that thread a while ago. You can actually clearly see the bubble and liquid going down the pipe into the tank. Every day's a school day









I also noticed that I pulled a 50s shot that day and it was still only 25g from 18g beans. Maybe I just count slowly in my head. I'll have to time it tomorrow and see how long it actually usually takes. Haha!


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

I think my buddha didnt go down too well- sorry if I come across as rather below par/ poor std! Im far off the evidently very high std of others on here, but probably the one with by far the least to spend on accessories you see/ tampers proper are expensive to me, let alone high quality grinders.

Mike- sent you a pm.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Not at all, Chief. We all do what we can and it's a continuous learning process. We're all learners here. I think the buddha is brilliant!! I've seen people use all kinds of bastardised devices for tamping and that's my favourite! As long as you're enjoying the drink that's all that matters.

Thanks for the PM








Yeah, it's something I do need to fix. Thanks for the suggestions! I'll head over to a plumbing shop soon.

Cheers!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

This morning I actually timed my shot. I did everything exactly the same as in the past where I've been counting in my head to about 22-25secs. Turns out it's about 36-38 secs so if anything I'm probably either grinding a little too fine or tamping a little too hard for my 50-60% brew ratio. Haha









Back to the lab for more experimentation boys.

PS Chief - Don't worry about not having the gear (or money) we're not snobs in here. Just trying to help you get the best out of what you've got


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

.. and that you've certainly done. 2nd day of proper shots & I can taste all the goodies now- a really first rate machine- I'll take back my sniffy remarks about the inner bits now/ its a good design, even if the manual is poor and the time it takes to get the knack frustrating.

Next for some Monmouth beans.. not ideal espresso types on the whole, but I bet full of flavour- should be interesting.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Might be worth keeping an eye on this, going pretty cheap at the moment

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Iberital-MC2-Coffee-Grinder-/230681083056?pt=Coffee_Machines_Makers&hash=item35b5a9fcb0#ht_500wt_1195


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## Alastair Lever (Sep 14, 2011)

Hi Chief,

the Porlex hand grinder.

http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/porlex-tall-hand-grinder/prod_2707.html?category=502

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3798-porlex-hand-grinder

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?4267-Porlex-Tall-Manual-Grinder-A-Newbies-First-Impressions

is a fantastic bit of engineering.

I used mine for about 2 weeks before forking out on an ascaso i-steel i-1 which is lovely but the porlex grinds just as well if not a bit slower of course than the ascaso. I eventually started to use it with a cordless drill set at slow speed which made grinding a dodle.

If after you have tried some nice fresh beans and find that your grinder is not up to it. you can have mine for £20 posted.

Wasn't going to sell it but hate to see someone passionate about their coffee going without.


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## ~ Sea Chief ~ (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi Alistair- thanks for the offer, looks a great piece of equipment (Ytube'd I found some oh so cool camper using one- my kind of dude/ tho taking briefcases of coffee gubbins camping..!). I tell you what Im going to do: keep my cheapo one until it blows up tbh. Then if I can figure out a way of harnessing the Porlex hand-turning bit by animal of some sort (bird? might get a bit messy tho) I'll defo have it!

cheers chaps- happy shots! Chief.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Some on here will no doubt have seen this website, but just thought I'd post this chapter... made me smile.

http://www.frcndigital.com/coffee/Coffee9.html


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

That's a pretty funny read. Imagine going through all that and never even having tried espresso. Crazy. Had me hooked reading it last night though


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