# Hello from the North West, and looking for advice on budget grinding for espresso



## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

Very much a newbie here, so apologies for my rambling, and not knowing my woofers from my tweeters, but hopefully someone can help me.

For many years I used a Dualit 84200 Espressivo (with its largest pressurised basket and pre-ground coffees) to make occasional cappuccinos. I know, I know. I knew very little about coffee, had limited budget, limited knowledge, and limited aspirations. While "okay" for cappuccino, this wasn't able to reliably deliver a really decent or consistent espresso whatever I fed it with. I started to yearn for a little control over the process. From the West of Ireland to inner city Manchester, I've bought the odd coffee that just talks to me, usually at the hands of local independents, from mobile van to little cafe, what was it they were doing? Going back to ask some, freshly grinding fairly locally hand roast beans seemed to be part of it. Then I was gifted some beans and a Hario Mini Mill, but I couldn't achieve anything like I'd had from the same beans at the hands of a professional. I passed the Dualit to a family member in greater need, and did without for a while, with a vague idea I needed to raise my game.

I did just enough research to conclude that the Gaggia Classic 2019 should be a big step up in control, so I finally invested. And here I am, right at the beginning it seems, and now lurking fora of the much better informed. The GCP easily matches what I'd done before, and now I can tamp and actually have a little influence. The morning starts with coffee again, but it's become painfully obvious I need to start grinding. Painfully because I didn't realise it before, painfully because the gratefully received Mini Mill doesn't seem at all up to the task for espresso, and painfully because it seems I need to find some more budget and maybe worktop space.

So, burr-ning questions...

Firstly, is there a pre-ground coffee that is worth persevering with? I don't mean ideal, and I don't expect superb crema or delicious espresso, but I mean as a daily acceptable shot for a drinkable cappuccino. The Gaggia blend that came with the GCP seemed tolerable and delivered pleasingly solid dead pucks from the traditional baskets. Illy Intenso seems caught between a single and a double for my purposes, and is messier, wet after extraction reminding me of the Dualit. Past experience with Lavazza range suggested it might be fine for coffee-ing some steamed milk, but how to deliver proper crema to coat the cup etc, and to fine tune the extraction to properly enjoy the odd straight espresso etc? Is it time to ditch the pre-ground?

Secondly, are hand grinders such as the 1Zpresso JX-Pro (or J-Max) capable of delivering a double shot in under a minute, once dialled for the GCP? Are they too tedious, too much effort, or worth it for the control? Are they massively easier to adjust and use than the Hario Mini, or was it just me and the fact that I'd tried on on fairly stale medium roast beans? The head says I'm not into coffee enough to justify taking over the kitchen with more appliances, that a manual grinder is discrete, and that as it's mainly only for me, manual should be the way forward for the daily or twice daily grind?

Thirdly, if I can't afford a Niche or the like, if the budget needs to be well shy of £200, if I have no interest in any other method than espresso, is there a workable basic electric grinder recommendation? I certainly don't need coarse for pour-over or large capacities. There's the incredibly cheap Chinese EP9201, targeting espresso direct grind to portafilter, being marketed as professional/commercial. $33 in China, £70 here from a supplier with a less than solid reputation, I wonder if it might just work or if it's disposable junk? Probably best steer clear? So, compact, affordable, reliable, low retention and maintenance - is there a used model I should look out for or should I limit myself to manual?

Any recommendations welcomed, thank in advance


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## kahawa (Aug 2, 2021)

JX pro is certainly capable for espresso based on my research and it seems ideal for you due to low usage, limited counter space and low( for espresso grinders) budget.

The cheaper alternatives likely to be old commercially sized grinders which will not be kind to your space requirements.

if you look up some videos, people tend to grind 17 18 gram dose in 30ish seconds which is not bad at all. however it can be tedious if you need to pull back to back shots or when you are dialing in the grind. it will be a huge step up from hario mini mill none the less.

this is your biggest bang for buck in terms of return of coffee quality

the other thing to do is to mod gaggia so if gives you 9 bars of pressure instead a much higher default.

better water, 0.1 g accurate scales, Quality basket, wdt tool, temp surfing, consistent workflow etc... with take you further..


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

Thanks for that. I had been leaning towards an Iberital MC2, fearful of the hand grinding effort, but you've pretty much allayed those fears. For dialling I believe I can safely recruit a low rpm battery screwdriver with the 1Zpresso. For low usage levels something seems right about single dose grinding. If only the J-max had a stainless housing it would look good forever too.

Interesting about the GCP pressure. I reckoned that temperature should be consistent enough if I pump at the same time with respect to the thermostat light, and I should be able to find a coffee and grind to suit, so I ruled out PID for now. But why do they do 15 bar as standard, and what is the advantage of 9 bar?


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## japester79 (Feb 25, 2018)

I've upgraded my grinder to a Eureka Mignon Specialita and it's improved my espresso from my Sage BE exponentially. 
got my rocket machine coming later this week too so that should be fun.

my limited experience leads me to lean into fresh beans and a good grinder being absolute key. Consistency with bean weight too!


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## T Maus (Jun 7, 2021)

I've been using a JX-Pro with my pre-2015 Gaggia Classic for the past couple of months and it's worked very well for me. I get shot times where I want them and inconsistencies in shot time/output have been due to my puck prep, not the grinder. I find it easy to dial in and switch between grind settings (switching between beans and between espresso/pour-overs). I just need to keep a notebook next to the grinder to note down what settings I want to go back to.

I usually do 2 espressos at any one sitting, but have been up to 4 when we had friends over. I wasn't thrilled when they asked for a second coffee each 30mins later, but it was doable. Your screwdriver thought would help.

I can't speak for how it compares to the Hario - only to my experience with the JX-Pro.


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## kahawa (Aug 2, 2021)

it might be worth while for you to go through 'understanding espresso' series from James Hoffman where he talks about dose. pressure etc..

Also, there is a video From Lance Hendrix where he shows gaggic hacks.


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

Thanks again all.

Kahawa, I'd seen a few of James Hoffman's videos, but now I've been through the "understanding espresso" series which are very informative. I'd come across Lance Hendrick's Gaggia hacks too, which are interesting food for thought.

My takeaway is that, for manageable hand grinding and a decent window, I really need to swap that OPV spring down to 9 bar, as well as getting a decent grinder, otherwise I'm making the challenge needlessly difficult?


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

T Maus, is that with a regular Classic 2015 running off the shelf pressure, or might it have been mod'd?


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## T Maus (Jun 7, 2021)

I brought the pressure down to 9 bar as soon as I got it. I believe the process is slightly different for the GCP from my machine - changing a spring instead of a partial twist on a screw - but the process still looks straightforward. One of the forum members @MrShades sells kits. I don't know the Pro so can't say for certain that it'll work on your machine, but should be easy enough to confirm. 
Website: https://www.shadesofcoffee.co.uk/opv-kits


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

Thanks for confirming. I found shades already. I bought a shallow drip tray and open bottomed portafilter, very happy with both, but wasn't aware of the pressure issue then. Yes, their standard spring kit will fit my model. A bit cross that Gaggia don't put the right spring in in the first place....


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## coffeealex79 (Apr 11, 2019)

I have a comandante grinder and super happy with that, can go as fine for a ibrik to coarse enough for a french press, for espresso will take some effort but you can always use a drill, I heard about jx but don't know any that has it

comandante is around £200

otherwise a specialità grinder shouldn't take too much space on the counter


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@bbstrikesagain - take a look at the classifieds. There's an Eureka Mignon Specialità with all sorts of accessories at an excellent price. It's from@Dave double bean . Dave bought stuff from me in the past, and I also bought from him. Top chap.

edit: I spoke too soon. It's, unsurprisingly, gone!

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/classifieds/item/417-eureka-specialita/?do=embed

A true bargain. I was tempted myself!


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

Thanks everyone for the inputs here, and private messages.

Decision made, for now at least. For my two a day habit, J-max on pre-order. Definitely small, definitely a low retention SDG, hopefully enough clicks to dial, the only thing is I'll have to turn the handle. The workout should be good for me, if not I'll be lurking in classifieds again...

GCP now adapted to 9 bar too, so let the next stage begin!


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## msquire (Dec 27, 2021)

bbstrikesagain said:


> Thanks everyone for the inputs here, and private messages.
> 
> Decision made, for now at least. For my two a day habit, J-max on pre-order. Definitely small, definitely a low retention SDG, hopefully enough clicks to dial, the only thing is I'll have to turn the handle. The workout should be good for me, if not I'll be lurking in classifieds again...
> 
> GCP now adapted to 9 bar too, so let the next stage begin!


 Hi - sorry for re-opening an old thread but how are you getting on with the GCP? Thinking about pulling the trigger on one and pretty much assumed I'll need to do the 9bar mod straight away. Don't fancy doing the PID mod myself though so wondered how you found the temp control/ workflow?


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

msquire said:


> Hi - sorry for re-opening an old thread but how are you getting on with the GCP? Thinking about pulling the trigger on one and pretty much assumed I'll need to do the 9bar mod straight away. Don't fancy doing the PID mod myself though so wondered how you found the temp control/ workflow?


 Hey, no problem.

Really enjoying the GCP, and two (or sometimes three) very nice espressos a day, and the J-Max. Do the 9-bar mod straight away, it makes a vast difference to the ease of dialing a coffee. I have 9-bar OPV spring, de-sprung power switch, bottomless portafilter, and slim drip tray.

I didn't get things consistent until I started a temperature surfing, but in a limited way... Machine on 15-25 minutes before use. Weigh, RDT, grind. Remove the portafilter, dose, WDT/level, tamp. Dump about 50-60ml hot water from the group (or catch to warm a cup etc). A few seconds later the brew light goes OFF, meaning heating has begun again. Wait for brew light ON, so boiler casing is externally at 107°C, then load the portafilter and pump the shot. For me, with the beans I use, this is consistent. I've no idea the actual temperature, but it's consistent.

Beware surfing instructions that use the steam switch without first doing something to controlling the starting point. When the brew stat is cycling the boiler temperature probably swings more then 10°C, so the only solid reference you have is the timing of the brew light going OFF. You can wait for the brew light cycle, or force it as I do.

I'm still waiting on some parts, but I will be adding PID, dimmer, pressure gauge, timer and probably LED tank lights. In the meantime, I have great coffee anyway


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## msquire (Dec 27, 2021)

bbstrikesagain said:


> Hey, no problem.
> 
> Really enjoying the GCP, and two (or sometimes three) very nice espressos a day, and the J-Max. Do the 9-bar mod straight away, it makes a vast difference to the ease of dialing a coffee. I have 9-bar OPV spring, de-sprung power switch, bottomless portafilter, and slim drip tray.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for this - really useful! I think I'm going to start out with the same starter kit as you, I want a bottomless filter, new basket and a slim drip tray (so I hopefully can use my existing hario scales). I don't think my pallet or espresso skill would benefit from a PID or any pre-infusion at this stage, I just want consistent, decent shots which hopefully I can get with your helpful advice on temp surfing!

Thanks again - not sure why but always good when the advice is local, I'm just round the m60!


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## bbstrikesagain (Aug 15, 2021)

msquire said:


> Thanks for this - really useful! I think I'm going to start out with the same starter kit as you, I want a bottomless filter, new basket and a slim drip tray (so I hopefully can use my existing hario scales). I don't think my pallet or espresso skill would benefit from a PID or any pre-infusion at this stage, I just want consistent, decent shots which hopefully I can get with your helpful advice on temp surfing!
> 
> Thanks again - not sure why but always good when the advice is local, I'm just round the m60!


 When it comes to the bottomless portafilter, the genuine Gaggia one offers more clearance, if you can find a seller. I have a generic one which works fine and is beautifully made, but the offset handle doesn't give as much clearance. Ah, the good old M60, working from home sees me on it a bit less these days meaning more time for coffee...


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