# Problem with my new Barista Express?



## Aid1987 (Jun 27, 2015)

Hi all,

So I've recently 'upgraded' to Sage Barista Express 875 after my old Delonghi machine packed up.

This is my first machine with a built in grinder and pressure gauge. Now my problem is that I seem to always get the same result, a thin and pale crema. I also need a bit of practice with this steam wand but that'll come with more use.

Key info:

Beans: 'fresh' shop bought Ily beans

Grind: I've varied all throughthe dialled range

Tamp: everything from light to hard pressure whilst keeping the dose the right size.

Basket: single wall, single dose

I'll now describe as best what happens once I press the single shot button.

Noise from the machine, pressure gauge starts going up and espresso comes out after about 4 seconds whilst still in the under extracted range. After a short time the needle then flys up towards the upper end of optimum and only stays there for a few seconds before dropping back down and the shot finishes.

I was expecting varying results upon changing grind size and tamping pressure to find the perfect balance but the results just seem to keep coming out the same.

When I watch videos online the needle stays up at 12 o'clock at what seems like an age, all while producing a lovely looking shot of espresso.

Is there anything I'm missing here? The Sage manual hasn't been that helpful so far.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

illy is not fresh

Change your beans


----------



## Aid1987 (Jun 27, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> illy is not fresh
> Change your beans


Thought had crossed my mind. Would that really make such a big difference?

I've previously only really used pre-ground but what would be something suitable and easily accessible?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Maybe try ordering something from rave to kick you off. Have a read of the flavour notes and pick something that appeals to you

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Aid1987 said:


> Thought had crossed my mind. Would that really make such a big difference?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


 yes

then buy scales and read this...

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/21319-beginners-reading-weighing-espresso-brew-ratios/?do=embed

a pressure gauge on its own will not tell you if your coffee is under or over extracted and largely defining it as such is moot.

you are trying to achieve consistent tasty coffee , first step buy some decent fresh stuff , then read above.


----------



## thejama83 (Jan 20, 2019)

I had a similar experience and I have to say it purely came down to the beans I was using. Crap in crap out basically... First lot of fresh beans I used from Rave and it was like night and day!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Aid1987 (Jun 27, 2015)

Wow, thanks or all the insight everyone. I wasn't expecting so much so quickly.

Definitely going to try some different beans first and go from there.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The single is pretty difficult to set up but the grinder should be able to choke the machine easily without going to the minimum setting. Getting it right may need some rather careful dose of grinds setting. I'd suggest starting with what the razor tool leaves.

Sages idea of using the gauge is useful on *this* *machine* but don't worry if it goes higher than they suggest. Take care past the blue sector on it. A touch more wont hurt but at some point lots of water will go into the drip tray. Fine if you don't mind emptying it often but at some point it does have an effect on the functioning of the machine.

I never managed to buy any beans that wouldn't tune where ever they came from except one lot. A present off some one and they were insanely expensive but not fresh roasted.

It seems some people have bought BE's that have incorrectly set up grinders. No point going through that until the beans are definitely ok. All I will say is start at 8 and go down one step at a time and you shouldn't reach the lowest setting. Actually if run at that for long it might damage the burrs. They should have been set up in the factory so that they are gently rubbing.

When tuning the single assuming the machine hasn't been programmed use the double button and terminate manually. I'd be prepared to let the shot time go up to near 40sec if needed and found Sage's suggested ratio of Xg grinds in and 3X weight of shot out were often close to where it needed to be.

People will make a noise about shot time. If you used programmed buttons that will vary. Let it, that's what it is supposed to do. It will mask slight variations in your grinds preparations.

 And don't try to set a shot time with the portafilter off. I did that once and it tried to push the same quantity of water through the grinds. I terminated the shot after 1min.

John

-


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The gauge also has the use it has on many machines that have them. Users get used to how it responds when a shot is pulled. If nothing significant has changed it will always behave in the same way. Certain pressure at the end of infusion etc and what it gets to finally as well. Even the rate the needle moves at within limits.

John

-


----------



## Aid1987 (Jun 27, 2015)

Right, so I bought the Rave starter pack and things are looking slightly better. I've also noticed thsn minor tweaks to the dose and grind make the difference and not by changing them dramatically.

The espresso still seems a bit pale and thin (coffee becomes visible after the espresso has sat for 30-60 seconds before milk is added) but it's a work in progress and I'm hoping to have some time to have a proper play with the machine this weekend.

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------



## hummel89 (Dec 7, 2018)

@Aid1987 Single basket is not the best solution. Bean to espresso ratio 1:2 approximately, meaning that if you grind 10g of beans, you want 20g out.. However, when you press single shot in Barista Express it pours out 30g of expresso as a default. I suggest you swap to non pressurised double basket and do 18g in and 36-40g out for a good shot. Alternatively, change the amount sage extracts automatically.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

hummel89 said:


> @Aid1987 Single basket is not the best solution. Bean to espresso ratio 1:2 approximately, meaning that if you grind 10g of beans, you want 20g out.. However, when you press single shot in Barista Express it pours out 30g of expresso as a default. I suggest you swap to non pressurised double basket and do 18g in and 36-40g out for a good shot. Alternatively, change the amount sage extracts automatically.


 As a single is 30ml / 30 grams and the world is full of commercial single baskets that hold 7g who's right, you or them. It depends on the bean and also the type of drink being made. Some beans have a stronger taste than others. That taste is far more apparent in an espresso than a milk based drink. Some beans benefit from ratios other than 2.

It's easy to see what Sage think about ratios - 10g single basket for a 30g shot. It's one I try on all beans I buy.

The single isn't an easy basket to use. As the OP noticed small changes have an effect. If the hopper is on it's more important to clear out the grinds from the previous setting. It just means wasting 3 or 4g to be sure. Also when adjusting coarser go too coarse and then fine. Sage also make too much of what the pressure gauge should read during a shot. Best taste will often come out higher or lower - usually much higher in my case. Eventually lots of water goes to the drip tray but it is possible to brew with a few 10ml''s going to it. The 3 way dumps a fair amount as well. Some people just empty the drip tray more often when large amounts are going in but the volumetric measurements the machine has when the buttons are used looses it's accuracy. These buttons also measure notional amounts. The default setting may or may not give 30ml. It's some what dependent on grind etc.

John

-


----------



## Aid1987 (Jun 27, 2015)

hummel89 said:


> @Aid1987 Single basket is not the best solution. Bean to espresso ratio 1:2 approximately, meaning that if you grind 10g of beans, you want 20g out.. However, when you press single shot in Barista Express it pours out 30g of expresso as a default. I suggest you swap to non pressurised double basket and do 18g in and 36-40g out for a good shot. Alternatively, change the amount sage extracts automatically.


Funny you say this, I started using one after I noticed most people in online videos were and already seems to have made a difference.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


----------

