# Hello, Noob with some questions



## MonkeyHarris

Hi there,

I decided to join this forum as I've got some questions for like minded people. Until about a year ago I had only ever drank drip coffee and sometimes lattes. I never made coffee at home as it always tasted awful. Then after a trip to Rome with my wife I tried an Espresso from a small cafe near our hotel. I was blown away and so started the spiral I now find myself on









When I got back to the UK I decided to try and make myself an Espresso with an old magimix machine someone gave me but I never used. I just wanted to replicate the one I'd had in Rome. After several botched attempts (using preground Espresso) I went online to see where I was going wrong. 2 days later I had purchased a Silvia version 3. Although obviously a way better machine I soon realised that this was not enough and I should have purchased a grinder first but my wife refused to let me blow any more money in search of the perfect Espresso. Anyway almost a year later and after drinking pretty much only latte's (using Illy preground) my wife has caved in and agreed to buy me a grinder for Xmas. I originally had my heart set on a Rocky but after reading reviews about the stepped vs stepless issue I think I'm going to have to stretch the bank a bit further. I was thinking of going for a Macap M4 I've seen it here http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=macap-4 and it seems like quite a good price. I just wanted an opinion off anyone who'd used this retailer before (are they any good?) and is this the best use of my cash (I'll only be grinding for Espresso)

Also when I purchased my Silvia I went with a recommended Motta tamper (I got it from myespresso.co.uk) but it is clearly too small (57mm and not flat) so I thought I'd better upgrade to something better. I was debating going for one of these http://www.coffeecreations.co.uk/dyno-espresso-tamper/p55 as my skills are still in their infancy but I hear so many people going on about Reg Barber (hope that's right) I was wondering if that would be a better purchase in the long run. I also read somewhere that upgrading the original silvia basket to a bigger one was a good idea but I don't know the name of the basket or where to buy. The bug has bitten me badly and no doubt I'll be spending way too much on this over the coming years but I'd rather not waste any cash on bad equipment. Any views or help would be much appreciated.

Great forum by the way!


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## Glenn

Welcome to Coffee Forums UK and great to see you've jumped right in. Great first post with plenty to comment on by all

Rancilio Silvias punish a bad grind so a Macap M4 will be okay, but ensure you're not lured down the road of any cheaper models that can't grind fine enough

Regarding the tamper I'd personally save £10 and go for something like this in a 58mm flat base version

I find the pre-tensioned tampers good for training but not necessary for everyday use (unless in a cafe with a high staff turnover and consistency is required)

There will be times when a lighter, or harder tamp is needed so if it was my money I'd be looking to avoid buying twice.


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks for the quick response Glen. I'll ditch the idea of the pre-tensioned tamper. With regards to the grinder is there anything else in this price range you think would be better? I can't afford to spend much more. Also any ideas on the name of the basket for the Silvia? Thanks for your help.


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## DonRJ

Bigger filter baskets here, try the synesso triple, http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/PRD_SearchResults.aspx?searchstring=basket

As for grinders to compete with the Macap, I was going to buy a Compak K3 touch (doserless) until an Ebay impulse buy took control, looks like a good option.


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## lookseehear

I would just add that Coffeeitalia doesn't have a great reputation, as they claim to be UK based but are actually based in Europe so any kind of warranty issues are difficult and expensive to resolve!


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## sandykt

MonkeyHarris, what a great first post. Welcome to Coffee Forums


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks for the replies everyone. Plenty of food for thought. Definitely going to get a synesso basket!


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## MonkeyHarris

I've decided not to risk getting a grinder from Coffeeitalia as I read through their returns policies and it left me somewhat concerned. To buy the Macap from another retailer puts me in the Mahlkonig Vario price bracket so I thought I should consider this as well. I noticed two of you have the Vario already. Can I ask your thoughts on it? I've read some good and some not so good stuff but I'm aware it's a pretty new grinder. Thanks for all your help.


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## Glenn

I love my Mahlkonig Vario

Although I've only had it for a few weeks so far it has given me consistent grinds and improved my pucks consistency

I brew coffee using almost all imaginable methods and so far have managed to switch between espresso, filter and an aeropress setting with pretty good accuracy

Very little grind retention and almost no grind throw to report as well.


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks Glenn. How accurate is the timer for dosing? Low grind retention sounds very appealing. Is it quite sturdy?


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## Glenn

Accurate to 0.1 of a second. Weighing grinds produced has not thrown any anomolies so far


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## sandykt

I am very happy with my Mahlkonig Vario. Not a beast of a grinder but definitely packs a punch. I initially found dialling in a bit frustrating as the machine is so sensitive but I got there in the end. Once you have used the grinder, if you do not use it again, it automatically switches itself off. Portafilter folder is good but keep your hand on it just in case it goes flying.


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## MonkeyHarris

I think my mind's made up. I'm going to order the Mahlkonig Vario. The only thing that put me off is it looks (from photo's) like it's mainly plastic and possibly not as durable as say the macap but it also has so many features I think i can overlook that. It seems to be a reasonablr price on CoffeeHit (£324) so I'll probably order from there.

Sandykt, as you have a very similar setup to what I will have do you have any tips? i.e. settings starting point for espresso on the Vario and dose/timer settings for a double shot.


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## vintagecigarman

Don't want to interfere, as CoffeeHit is a trustworthy supplier, but you could save a few quid on that price if you had a look around - Hasbean do them at £315 for example.

Although I moved my Vario on (to someone who appreciates it far more than I did), you shouldn't be too worried about its looks - there is a fair bit of solid metal to it, and they certainly don't look cheap!


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## MonkeyHarris

vintagecigarman said:


> Don't want to interfere, as CoffeeHit is a trustworthy supplier, but you could save a few quid on that price if you had a look around - Hasbean do them at £315 for example.
> 
> Although I moved my Vario on (to someone who appreciates it far more than I did), you shouldn't be too worried about its looks - there is a fair bit of solid metal to it, and they certainly don't look cheap!


Wow thanks! It's paid off joining this forum already







May I ask why you sold yours? What did you get instead?


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## vintagecigarman

There are other threads here where I've gone into detail about why I fell out with the Vario, but, in brief: Didn't like the amount of plastic (and there seems to be a lot inside), didn't like how difficult it is to remove the top burrs for full cleaning, but, most of all, I didn't like the adjustment mechanism. Got to admit that I'm a bit different from most Vario users, as I tend to grind solely for espresso so the easy adjustment was lost on me - except for the fact that I found it far too easy to accidentally shift the levers, and change the grind when I wasn't wanting to!

Changed it for a Mazzer Mini-e. A bit more money, but much better build quality, and a sturdy adjustment collar for the grind.

Don't let me put you off the Vario - I'm in a minority in not liking it. Like I've said, the new owner of my Vario is loving it! But I presume that you've also looked at the Eureka Mignon and possibly the Compak K3 Touch?


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## DonRJ

I believe Vintage is a Mazarite, which if you know your Star Trek are a technologically advanced alien race secretly known for their love of earth coffee. They revealed their grinder technology to an Italian during a close encounter of the third kind many years ago. The grinders retail under the Mazzer name on earth in honour of these aliens.

I also have it on good authority that pigs can fly and base metal can be turned into gold.

Don


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## vintagecigarman

DonRJ said:


> I believe Vintage is a Mazarite, which if you know your Star Trek are a technologically advanced alien race secretly known for their love of earth coffee. They revealed their grinder technology to an Italian during a close encounter of the third kind many years ago.
> 
> Don


Totally, totally wrong. The truth is that the secret of the Mazzer was discovered by Da Vinci (it was the quality of his espresso that put the smile on Mona's face) - but remained lost until a secret Opus Dei maunscript was uncovered in the 1930's. Dan Brown is writing a book about it.


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## MonkeyHarris

vintagecigarman said:


> There are other threads here where I've gone into detail about why I fell out with the Vario, but, in brief: Didn't like the amount of plastic (and there seems to be a lot inside), didn't like how difficult it is to remove the top burrs for full cleaning, but, most of all, I didn't like the adjustment mechanism. Got to admit that I'm a bit different from most Vario users, as I tend to grind solely for espresso so the easy adjustment was lost on me - except for the fact that I found it far too easy to accidentally shift the levers, and change the grind when I wasn't wanting to!
> 
> Changed it for a Mazzer Mini-e. A bit more money, but much better build quality, and a sturdy adjustment collar for the grind.
> 
> Don't let me put you off the Vario - I'm in a minority in not liking it. Like I've said, the new owner of my Vario is loving it! But I presume that you've also looked at the Eureka Mignon and possibly the Compak K3 Touch?


Hmmmmm.... I'm not overstruck on the plastic either. I wish they did it in stainless steel. I also only brew espresso and I've heard people say that after a while the adjusters become loose and start to move during grinding. I have looked at the Mignon but thought it looked a bit odd (my wife will not be impressed if I put something ugly in the kitchen) maybe I'll look at the K3 a bit more...lol! My mind is changing by the hour. Like I suspect many other people I want my first grinder to be the only grinder I purchase for sometime. I'd like to think that it would be a lifetime investment....


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## sandykt

[quote name=

Sandykt, as you have a very similar setup to what I will have do you have any tips? i.e. settings starting point for espresso on the Vario and dose/timer settings for a double shot.[/quote]

When I got my Vario that's exactly the question I was asking! I basically whacked both settings up to the finest, choked my machine and worked back from that. The Vario is sturdy but I have to admit I will probably upgrade to a Mazzer Mini in the next year or so. Until then I'm happy. I have to say that I don't think it looks plastic but that's just my opinion.


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## vintagecigarman

In fairness, Sandy has a point, because there is a fair bit of substantial metal housing to the Vario. The upper front of the machine, around the control panel is metal - and this surrounds the area where the hopper fits in. Get a look at the video on this link with Seattle Coffee Gear's Tame Bear explaining it: http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/Vario-Coffee-Grinder-with-Upgraded-H2-Display-p/scg10757-03.htm

I know the problems that you are experiencing in making the grinder decision, have recently been through it myself on an upgrade hunt.


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## MonkeyHarris

I've been looking all day and it's between the K3 touch and the Vario. I'm leaning towards the touch at the moment as it's more in line with my original budget £295 from MyEspresso who I'd rather not use after they stitched me up last time but it's a huge saving on other retailers. I also prefer its looks and I'll only be grinding for espresso so the once I've got it dialed in I should imagine changing beans will only require minor adjustments.

Sigh.. this is not easy! I'll let you guys know which way it goes and pop some pictures up


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## DonRJ

While I was grinder hunting I found the K3 touch at this place as an alternative.

http://www.frashell.com/product.php/322/k3-touch--price-includes-vat-and-delivery-nationwide-

I have no knowledge of the seller but price looks good and includes delivery

Don


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## MonkeyHarris

Thanks DonRJ. I might give them a call and see if they can improve on that 14 days for delivery. I need it before I change my mind again


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## MonkeyHarris

DonRJ said:


> While I was grinder hunting I found the K3 touch at this place as an alternative.
> 
> http://www.frashell.com/product.php/322/k3-touch--price-includes-vat-and-delivery-nationwide-
> 
> I have no knowledge of the seller but price looks good and includes delivery
> 
> Don


I tried that company Don. Despite what it says on their site they haven't got any K3's in stock. They seemed nice enough though and tried to tempt me with just about every other grinder under the sun including a second hand Super Jolly in "mint" condition


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## lespresso

this will upset some people, but i don't think any of them will be mechanical engineers -

don't get a belt driven grinder if you want it to last

I'm sorry, but there's a reason why automotive manufacturers have moved away from timing belts and back to good old double chain

grinders need to be direct drive


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## ronsil

lespresso said:


> don't get a belt driven grinder if you want it to last


Bear in mind in a coffee grinder with a belt if you should get a rock or a piece of hard debris into the grinder via the beans, belt slip will save the burrs from stripping:rolleyes:


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## lespresso

if its running hardened steel burrs instead of fashionable but flimsy ceramic that shatters when it hits the tough stuff, its not a problem

who has heard of people complaining of mashing the burrs of their compak or mazzer or whatever from a single incident?

that's exactly what hardened steel is for

if its a big enough foreign body it will jam the grinder and the thermal protection switch will trip

clear it out, reset the trip switch, and off you go

hardened steel burrs don't strip - you might put a small ding in a couple of teeth - its not ideal, but its not going to kill your espresso making

chunks of cement (as opposed to 'rocks' ) off the patios are the most common and steel burrs on a K10 or similar just crunch these up like cornflakes and spit them out as cement dust


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