# Is COMPAK E8 only suitable for light roast espresso beans?



## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

The city of mine only have one professional coffee roaster ( A member of SCAE ) and he normally roast city to full city roast only. If I remember correctly he seems never roast or provide light roast beans in his coffee shop. I currently owned one Pharos hand grinder + Olympia Cremina 67 and I only drink straight espresso. Occasional I will also make some cappuccino for my mother.









So, my questions,

does the E8 only suitable for light roasted beans? or It also good in city to full city roast and even in dark roast?

Thank you so much


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Big conical burrs are best for medium plus and darker roasts - they do not handle lighter roasts at all well from my experience producing harsh acidic shots due to under extraction issues. If your preference is towards lighter roasts - go for as bigger flat burr set as you can afford.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I think the OP is asking if its ok for darker roasts. I can't see what it wouldn't be . As long as you are using decent coffee , understand how to adjust a brew ratio and the water is good then im not sure if there is value in trading off a conic v flat for a darker roast ...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Compak will handle darker roasts just fine....unless you are one of the 'boffins' on here with refractometers and the like, would you know the difference in a 2% extraction shortfall?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> The Compak will handle darker roasts just fine....unless you are one of the 'boffins' on here with refractometers and the like, would you know the difference in a 2% extraction shortfall?


Yes, as would anyone with taste buds, the 18-22% box was determined by tasting, by coffee consumers, not professionals/boffins/connoisseurs. It's a pretty significant chunk, despite being described as "2%", it's actually 11% more coffee in the cup in total. Given that it's fairly hard to get less then 12% extraction minimum (if you have a shot of a target brew ratio at all, you don't start at 0% extraction), that makes another "2%" more like half as much more coffee in the cup in reality (same dose & brew ratio).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

****Boffin Alert****....!!!!

  



MWJB said:


> Yes, as would anyone with taste buds, the 18-22% box was determined by tasting, by coffee consumers, not professionals/boffins/connoisseurs. It's a pretty significant chunk, despite being described as "2%", it's actually 11% more coffee in the cup in total. Given that it's fairly hard to get less then 12% extraction minimum (if you have a shot of a target brew ratio at all, you don't start at 0% extraction), that makes another "2%" more like half as much more coffee in the cup in reality (same dose & brew ratio).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Luddite



dfk41 said:


> ****Boffin Alert****....!!!!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

OK David, if you have 2 oranges & Derek has 3 oranges, Derek has half as much more oranges than you. Now imagine the oranges are coffee. I know, it's lofty academic stuff, but having achieved that much revered qualification of CSE grade 2 in maths, I have complete mastery of it...ooh, it makes me feel like a king! 

For a bonus point, how long does it take for you both to fill a bath using coffee scoops?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> OK Now imagine the oranges are coffee.


Thats where it all starts to go wrong! mark, you know I am gently pulling your leg. There are coffee (luddites) like me, who enjoy what they drink, or they sink it, then there are those which the more scientific approach......lets say fanny craddock v heston....I admire your approach even though it is not for me!


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## KopiO (Nov 8, 2014)

I would like to thank you guys here for your valuable opinions here. Of cause I am not a Boffin ( I am just a simple coffee lover







)

By the way, I forget to mention: I am single dose guy. is the Compak E8 good for single dose? and what about the retention rate?

Thank you

Best Regards

Teng


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

KopiO said:


> By the way, I forget to mention: I am single dose guy. is the Compak E8 good for single dose? and what about the retention rate?


when you get your answers look to the ones where the person has single dosed once and multiple times, opening the burr chamber in each case, to see what remains...not just said I put 18g in and got 18g out.


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> ****Boffin Alert****....!!!!


I see you've had enough of experts


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

My two cents: With medium and dark roasts your Pharos will give better results in the cup than an E8. I have a 65e and a Pharos and the Pharos beats it hands down. The 65e is a hell of a lot more convenient though.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rob666 said:


> My two cents: With medium and dark roasts your Pharos will give better results in the cup than an E8. I have a 65e and a Pharos and the Pharos beats it hands down. The 65e is a hell of a lot more convenient though.


Thats what I would expect though. But, the gap between the Compak ought to be smaller if at all since the burr size is 83 mm


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> Thats what I would expect though. But, the gap between the Compak ought to be smaller if at all since the burr size is 83 mm


True David, but I have also compared the Pharos with a 74mm flat and it was still miles ahead. I think the geometry and speed is more relevant than a few extra mm. I'd love to compare an E10 and an E8 side by side with a dark bean I know well.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

for some reason and I forget why, a conical always seems to extract a better range of flavours than a flat with a darker roasted bean. Perhaps someone will add to that...the Pharos is pretty much at the top of its game, if you do not mind hand cranking


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Careful that " reason " may involve some form of boffinism to explain it

Darker roasts are easier to extract , perhaps you just don't need those big flat burrs to get the best of em ...









Anyway i thought you loved your flat burr mythos


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> for some reason and I forget why, a conical always seems to extract a better range of flavours than a flat with a darker roasted bean. Perhaps someone will add to that...the Pharos is pretty much at the top of its game, if you do not mind hand cranking


I agree, but I have a dodgy shoulder so I don't want to hand crank all the time. @Snakehips made me a very useful hold down for the Pharos but I still can't use it too often.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Careful that " reason " may involve some form of boffinism to explain it
> 
> Darker roasts are easier to extract , perhaps you just don't need those big flat burrs to get the best of em ...
> 
> ...


I do love my Mythos!! I was just making an observation Martin, and even I do not need a boffin to help me determine taste and range of flavours.....but thanks for the kind offer!


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## caramel (Jun 22, 2016)

dfk41 said:


> for some reason and I forget why, a conical always seems to extract a better range of flavours than a flat with a darker roasted bean. Perhaps someone will add to that...the Pharos is pretty much at the top of its game, if you do not mind hand cranking


I saw a video from the chap who makes the Ceado grinders explain this. He said the conical burrs give more of a flake grind than flat burrs do. I guess the flatter the grind the more surface area there is, but I don't see how that would relate to flatter burrs being better for lighter roasts.

I'm a long way from being a boffin though, I'm just glad if I get a decent tasting espresso.

edit: found the video, still doesn't explain things though.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

caramel said:


> I saw a video from the chap who makes the Ceado grinders explain this. He said the conical burrs give more of a flake grind than flat burrs do. I guess the flatter the grind the more surface area there is, but I don't see how that would relate to flatter burrs being better for lighter roasts.
> 
> I'm a long way from being a boffin though, I'm just glad if I get a decent tasting espresso.


The finer you grind the more surface area there is, if the flake shaped particles are bigger then they will have less surface area, they would have to be overall smaller to have more surface area with respect to the dose. Any data I have seen points to the flats that were tested as being able to grind finer for a given shot scenario, but that doesn't make them "better".

Roller mills are able to produce tighter distributions than either flats or conicals and are used by commercial roasters who roast as dark as you like.

I think this guy might be able to explain the light & flat, dark & conical idea...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

This is what happens though, when those thoughts and calculations become too much


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## mmmatron (Jun 28, 2014)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Big conical burrs are best for medium plus and darker roasts - they do not handle lighter roasts at all well from my experience producing harsh acidic shots due to under extraction issues. If your preference is towards lighter roasts - go for as bigger flat burr set as you can afford.


I have a K10 and generally always use lighter roasts. I've had very few problems.


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