# I find myself in the market for a new machine...



## WobblyGoblin (Oct 18, 2011)

... but have been avoiding looking at shiny edifices to coffee for fear of stoking the dreaded upgrade fever.

Basically, I am looking to replace my Isomac Tea with a new machine. 3 criteria for the upgrade are:

- Dual boiler (to move away from the HX type)

- Rotary pump (for noise control)

- Ability to plumb in (which I could convert my Tea to do but it's not truly designed to do it and would take modifying)

I haven't really been browsing machines for a while so am a little out of touch with what is "The New Hotness". Anyone care to recommend where I should start to look? I am a fan of the E61 group, stainless steel style machines. Previously I had been looking at the Vesuvius or the various PIDed dual boiler machines. The new Rocket R60 looks very interesting.

I may also be looking at a grinder upgrade but I have a pair of good performers at the moment. The only concern I have is that the Mahlkonig Vario seems to slip fairly frequently and need re-calibrating so something a little sturdier may be in order in the near future.

Cheers in advance!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

If you are prepared to take the time to learn, the Vesuvius is capable of producing the very best coffee in most of its various guises.

On the other hand should you be wanting to 'switch on' & go then perhaps look at a lever. Maybe an L1


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Buy that Verona in the for sale section please .... That's what I would buy if I only had £1.5k and lived nearer Coventry ... It's killing me seeing it ... I want it I want it I want it ... Put me out of my misery


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

h1udd said:


> Buy that Verona in the for sale section please .... That's what I would buy if I only had £1.5k and lived nearer Coventry ... It's killing me seeing it ... I want it I want it I want it ... Put me out of my misery


Now that is also a good idea:cool:


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Ill chuck something different into the mix.

https://twitter.com/decentespresso


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## jasvindrasingh (Apr 27, 2016)

Hi Wobbly,

You can also check Saeco Nextage which is new machine from Saeco with good customization capabilities.

http://irenesgroup.com/products/nextage/


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Hmmm...Saeco Spam


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

jasvindrasingh said:


> Hi Wobbly,
> 
> You can also check Saeco Nextage which is new machine from Saeco with good customization capabilities.
> 
> http://irenesgroup.com/products/nextage/


Or you could totally ignore....


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Yeah but if you want a meringue on top of your coffee then this should be a serious consideration


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## WobblyGoblin (Oct 18, 2011)

NickdeBug said:


> Hmmm...Saeco Spam


Apart from being absolutely nothing like I described in my criteria the spammer's recommendation is gratefully received









Thanks all for the rapid replies (except for you Jasvindra)!

Ronsil, I am prepared to invest time in learning with a new machine but I have to say the pressure profiling of the Vesuvius is a little intimidating... The L1 is an excellent call. I had thought that levers had a more variable output though. I'm also struggling slightly to find the detailed specs of the machine. If I'm right I don't believe that there is a boiler temperature control and since the higher end models mention HX I am guessing it is not duel boiler for the steam.

H1udd, the Verona looks promising but I'm not near Coventry so it would be a new machine for me. Thanks for pointing out the opportunity though!

Froggy, now that is different. Looks compact but little technical detail that I can find. From what I can tell it is tank fed only and heats water for steam and espresso on demand. That leads me to be concerned there would be a delay for steam. Have you used one of these?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Expobar Brewtus would tick your boxes. It comes with both tank and line feed options though I believe in order to have the rotary pump option you would need to have it line fed.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

It really comes down to how much you are prepared to spend...

If you want lever, then L1 is a great option, although for lesser money there are a number of particularly favoured options around this forum.

Brewtus IV is a good DB machine for the money, however if you are prepared to go up to the Verona / Profitec 700 / Alex Duetto IV level then you do get a little bit more, although this generally seems to come down to build quality, although all of the above have a rotary pump, which does bring a bit more to the table than a vibe pump (the Brewtus does have this as an option mind, but it is more expensive)

I have just been through this whole merry go round, and was going to wait, but then a Vesuvius came up second hand, and, well ... currently climbing that mountain







It is an excellent machine but is taking some adapting to - I would recommend a fairly thorough knowledge of the basics before going there, however it does basically do things that none of the other machines mentioned here can, which is what attracted me to it.

A final mention if you have the money would be the La Marzocco Mini, which weighs heavy in the wallet, but the extra money appears to have been spent making the thing bomb-proof - certainly this is the only machine around this price range I have ever seen in a public situation with anyone allowed to have a go on it (LCF) that appeared to be taking the strain admirably. As a mark of note, many of the stalls at LCF were also using them.

I'm taking it if you are nowhere near Coventry you are also nowhere near Bella Barista, where you could potentially have a play with some of the aforementioned machines?


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## scottgough (Feb 9, 2016)

The worlds your oyster really, R60 and Vesuvius are both excellent pressure profiling machines. The L1 is definitely interesting, and the decentespresso looks like it will be! Make sure you enjoy the shopping process, it's half of the fun


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## WobblyGoblin (Oct 18, 2011)

Build quality is pretty important to me. The only downside I have seen with the Tea is components failing on occasion. I have replaced the circuit board and wiring, and the main switch. As a result it has run like a dream for the last few years. At the time it was the most cost effective E61 I could find and I needed it to be as my budget was tight! Don't get me wrong though, I have been mightily impressed with it and it has given me great service.

I have a good knowledge of the basics - having been doing this coffee thing for a while







. Ideally I would like a little more control/consistency over the output and therefore looking at the DB models (and potentially PID). Not sure if profiling is overkill but certainly within my capabilities. The rotary pump and plumbed options are to make things a little quieter and less hassle. With a 1 year old and another on the way those benefits are priceless. However, the toddler will be disappointed with the noise reduction as he does like imitating the coffee machine buzzing from the vibe pump!

Great advice and help so far - thanks all. My budget does stretch to the Vesuvius/R60 level but I don't want to spend the extra for the sake of it. Looks like I need to get stuck into reviews now.

btw, I'd love to go down to Bella Barista to check out the machines but unfortunately they aren't close enough. They could well be the place I buy from though as I've heard great things over the years about their service.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Not quite the same but you can look around their store on the I/net But at least your wallet is a "little" safer


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

h1udd said:


> Buy that Verona in the for sale section please .... That's what I would buy if I only had £1.5k and lived nearer Coventry ... It's killing me seeing it ... I want it I want it I want it ... Put me out of my misery


My last two machines were sold to members in Brizzle. Surely that's an omen?


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Did you deliver ????


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## Snakehips (Jun 2, 2015)

Apologies.

Wobbly, did not intend to hijack your thread.

h1udd, did not intend to intensify nor prolong your misery.

Both handed over at M5 service rendezvous.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

R58 meets all your criteria. Although so do many of the other machines mentioned, such as the Quickmill. Just adding this for completeness sake as post #1 pretty much describes the R58 to a tee - E61, shiny stainless steel style, PID, DB, rotary, tanked, with plumbing kit supplied. Not exactly the new kid on the block any more but I do love mine.


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## WobblyGoblin (Oct 18, 2011)

NP Snakehips - a little deviating from the topic just makes things interesting!

R58 is one I have looked at in the past, Hotmetal. As you say, it hits the brief and is cheaper than the R60. I had wondered whether I would regret not having the extra R60 features in the future but the extra cost goes a long way towards a grinder upgrade


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## thriftwood (Jan 13, 2016)

Not wanting to regret missing the PP feature was definitely in the mix for me. It did take me a little while to make up my mind but I really don't have any regrets at all as it will do everything the 'normal' machines will do as well as allow me to play with different profiles when/if I want. (Oh, and I can't see me wanting to upgrade anytime soon) I will say that the Vesuvius is not as quiet as some (different type of pump I think?) and if silence is your goal then the QM Verona was one of the quietest machines by some margin to my ears at least. On the other hand I suspect your 1 year old will enjoy emulating the Vesuvius taking off







. Really would recommend trying to have a play with whatever you have on your shortlist. Don't know where you're based but I'm sure some kind soul here will be happy to demonstrate their wares if they've got the kit and they're local.


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## gzim (Apr 13, 2016)

Quickmill has just released a Profiling Machine, you might want to see if anyone is carrying it yet.


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## Anakinlucas (Nov 6, 2015)

I've just ordered the Izzo Alex Duetto MkIV along with a Mazzer Mini A grinder, the Izzo meets all your criteria and after loads of reaserch can only find good things said of it!


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

great choice. Wow.....really like the look of the QM Andreja profiles machine.


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