# Trying to understand brewed coffee principles



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have often dabbled, but never really understood what I am doing with brewed. Over the years, I have tried french press, chemex, syphon, v60, clever dripper, trinity one, behmor brazen and probably several others. I have a trinity One which is a lovely kitchen focal point, but only have one grinder at the moment and am not prepared to arse around flipping between two extremes, but, when the Trinity turns up that will change. My favourite tasted mythos has been the press, but the trinity will be what I want house.

My question, is why does one brew method dictate a certain size or particle for the grind whilst another method requires something finer or coarser. There is no pressure involved so it cannot be about extraction. Why should water pass through faster or slower with one bit of kit.

Any thoughts please!


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

The finer the grind the greater the surface area that is exposed to the water in relation to the weight. So the extraction is faster the finer the grind.

Larger grinds have less surface area to weight ratio, so extraction is slower.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Batian said:


> The finer the grind the greater the surface area that is exposed to the water in relation to the weight. So the extraction is faster the finer the grind.
> 
> Larger grinds have less surface area to weight ratio, so extraction is slower.


Not that simple. It depends whether you are brewing by percolation (drip) or immersion (steep). You can over-extract a coarser grind in drip in a few minutes & not over-extract a finer grind as immersion in tens of minutes.

Often though bigger brews use, or can use a coarser grind than small brews. In drip the deeper bed needs to let the water flow faster(relatively) to avoid over-extraction, compared to a smaller brew. A bigger immersion brew holds heat longer so can extract a coarser grind fully, with less silt than a small immersion.

So @dfk41 it depends how you are going to use the Trinity. What did you like about the press you mention?


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

So does the surface area not increase as a ratio to weight? I accept that different methods will always have a bearing on the result, but the surface area exposed must have a very significant effect?

To put it in a simplistic way:

Take a a volume that is 6x3x3.

This gives you:

four sides of 6x3

two sides of 3x3

a total surface area of 90

Now cut the volume in half to give two pieces.

Each piece is six sides of 3x3x3

A total surface area of 54.

There are two pieces so that makes 108.

Is it not the same principal as cooking thin chips or chunky ones, but in reverse? Thin ones cook quicker and absorb more fat than chunky ones.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Batian said:


> So does the surface area not increase as a ratio to weight? I accept that different methods will always have a bearing on the result, but the surface area exposed must have a very significant effect?
> 
> To put it in a simplistic way:
> 
> ...


You extract mass not surface area, exposing more surface area is just the key to extracting more in less time/with less brew water.

For pourover, I can take the same 14g of coffee at a fine drip grind, bordering on coarse espresso (under 500um average), the other 14g at coarse (nearly 1mm average size) & hit the same extraction with the same amount of brew water by pouring all the water fast for the fine grind & by stretching out the pours with the coarser grind to slow the flow rate.

French press is more like your chip scenario, again, you can hit the same extraction, at the same ratio with the 2 grinds, finer one just takes less time & you have to be more careful about not kicking up silt.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

MWJB said:


> So @dfk41 it depends how you are going to use the Trinity. What did you like about the press you mention?


I intend to use the Trinity using the plunger, after a short steep time. When using the press, I like the earthy uncomplicated taste it produces. That may partly be don to the coffee of course but it was relatively quick and simple to use


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I seem to have entirely missed all chat about this trinity thingy.

What is it going to do over a normal V60?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

rob177palmer said:


> I seem to have entirely missed all chat about this trinity thingy.
> 
> What is it going to do over a normal V60?


It has never really featured much on here, but is best described here

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1075/0534/files/Trinity_ONE_Black_Edition_BREW_GUIDE_PRESS.pdf?7832205951437642045

I backed them on kickstarter as I loved the design of it......nothing more nothing less


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I intend to use the Trinity using the plunger, after a short steep time. When using the press, I like the earthy uncomplicated taste it produces. That may partly be don to the coffee of course but it was relatively quick and simple to use


Then do what you did with the press & use the metal filter (if the solids in the cup are what you describe as 'earthy').

I can't help beyond that because I don't do quick steeps and I don't aim to let the brewer influence the result much (non paper filtered will always be a bit hazy, but I like clean crisp press brews).


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

cheers Mark, will let you know how I get on with it eventually. it needs a running repair first of all then I have to wait for the Niche to arrive.....but it will happen


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