# Poll - Expobar Dual Leva vs Rocket Evoluzione V2



## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

*Which machine would you pick and why?*​
Expobar Dual Leva IV (Brewtus)1864.29%Rocket Evoluzione V2 (Cellini/Giotto)1035.71%


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Just interested in the forums opinion on these 2

Cheers


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Would like a PID, but a rotary pump more i think. Plus the build quality of the Rocket. so a Rocket HX for me. Not much more help than that , sorry


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

This could be great let the forum decide!!

Bang for buck the expo has it for me


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Don't fall into the shiny argument! If you cannot make a decent cuppa on an Expobar, then you certainly cannot on a Rocket either!


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

A Harry Hill style fight would be more fun

Expo for me, just more for the money... and if you really want the rotary pump, you can buy them with one as an option


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Expo would be my choice for flexibility.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Rocket all the way!

I know people say don't get drawn into shiny lust - but just look at it!!!! Even a bad shot will look good coming out of the rocket! Imagine a good one!!


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## gmason (Aug 9, 2012)

The Rocket is very forgiving and as was already stated, it's hard to produce a bad shot. So too is the ECM and the espresso I tasted from a Bezzera blew me away...


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

gmason said:


> The Rocket is very forgiving and as was already stated, it's hard to produce a bad shot. So too is the ECM and the espresso I tasted from a Bezzera blew me away...


Ooooooh don't muddy the water this is a rocket expo shoot out......and essentially a dual boiler vs rotary hx, not vibe


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Brewtus steals an early lead!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

+1 Brewtus (I am biased.......a realworld experienced user who doesnt regret buying one!)


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## lukeap69 (Apr 23, 2013)

Expo Brewtus for me


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

I have just bought a La Pav Europiccola because I want a lever machine thanks to the good advice on the forum. And I was also looking for a quality espresso machine and after trying them both, I'm going for the Expobar too. I'm even looking into putting a rotary pump. Thought the adjustability on the Brewtus was fabulous.


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

Hi guys,

Did anybody taste shots from both machines in a row in equal conditions - grinder and coffee blend? I tasted only a shot from Expobar Brewtus IV bringing my grinder Mazzer Mini Electronic Type A at the dealers coffee shop. I never tasted a shot from Rocket Cellini Evoluzione v2and that is why I wonder which of them to choose when I have enough money to afford this cost.

Thank you!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

One is hx . One is db . Enough difference alone there to start making some decisions based on functionality - flushing , changing brew temp. paired with your grinder I'm unsure there will be any appreciable difference ( if you can get the the same temp etc )

Buy a Brewtus - put the rest towards another grinder


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Both capable machines , grinder quality more important and brings more to the outcome (cup)


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> One is hx . One is db . Enough difference alone there to start making some decisions based on functionality - flushing , changing brew temp.
> 
> Buy a Brewtus - put the rest towards a


Hit the nail on the head there. They are very different machines under the hood.

I was "fortunate" enough to have the Rocket Evo2 for a month. It's a great machine, but I was one that could not get on with the cooling flush routine. If the machine is left idle for a while (over 30 mins), the one I had required a 4-5oz cooling flush to get to the required temperature. As I was using bottled water, that was A LOT of wasted water. As I got to know then machine, I found that if I left the machine heating up for 25-27 mins, the water was just a the right temperature, and it was just a matter of rinsing the group (1oz) before pulling a shot. That meant my morning routine had to be clockwork so I was ready to pull a shot exactly after 27 mins the machine was switched on. "Unfortunately", the machine I had was making a strange noise during the pre-infusion phase, and Bella Barista allowed me to return the machine. Given the opportunity, I changed to a Profitec 700 (Dual Boiler with PID, like the Brewtus/Expobar Dual Leva) and absolutely love it. I can be sure that no matter how long the machine has been idled for, a quick rinse of the shower screen and I am ready to pull a shot.

Would I've been happy with the Rocket Evo2? Absolutely! but I would have had a very steep learning curve ahead of me, which is all part of the "hobby". For me, it feels like the bottom line is that you need to understand, familiarise yourself intimately with the behaviour of an Heat Exchanger machine, whereas a PID Dual Boiler machine is far more easier to get on with.

Bottom line for me: If you just want to "plug and play", the Expobar Dual Leva is the way to go. If you happy to try different temperatures on the fly regulated by cooling flushes and want a machine that can be plumbed in easily (So you don't waste so much bottled water!), the Rocket Evo2 would be the way to go.


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

pessutojr said:


> Hit the nail on the head there. They are very different machines under the hood.
> 
> I was "fortunate" enough to have the Rocket Evo2 for a month. It's a great machine, but I was one that could not get on with the cooling flush routine. If the machine is left idle for a while (over 30 mins), the one I had required a 4-5oz cooling flush to get to the required temperature. As I was using bottled water, that was A LOT of wasted water. As I got to know then machine, I found that if I left the machine heating up for 25-27 mins, the water was just a the right temperature, and it was just a matter of rinsing the group (1oz) before pulling a shot. That meant my morning routine had to be clockwork so I was ready to pull a shot exactly after 27 mins the machine was switched on. "Unfortunately", the machine I had was making a strange noise during the pre-infusion phase, and Bella Barista allowed me to return the machine. Given the opportunity, I changed to a Profitec 700 (Dual Boiler with PID, like the Brewtus/Expobar Dual Leva) and absolutely love it. I can be sure that no matter how long the machine has been idled for, a quick rinse of the shower screen and I am ready to pull a shot.
> 
> ...


Hi pessutojr,

Why you had preferred Profitec700 instead of Alex Duetto III? Durability, material quality, etc.? When I asked a dealer to share with me why he do not sell Expobar Brewtus, he explained me that had been told by an Izzo sales guy that Brewtus has technical compromises and it is not recommended to sell them?! For me, personally, such explanation is absurd.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi @Prusev71! It's not that I have rejected the AD, but that I preferred the Profitec instead. One thing to notice on the AD is the clearance between the drip tray and the PF spouts. You may not be able to fit a tall mug there. I am sure both are capable machines, just happened to like the looks of the Profitec more. 

Regarding the Brewtus, there are plenty of happy owners in this forum.


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

Yes, this has been the favorite model of Claudette's father - the BB UK founder. Claudette's BWT is a nice lady - competent and communicative. If BB UK sells Brewtus it is enough to certificate that the machine is capable.

Have you calculated a TCO of ECM machine - cost of the spare parts and labor or the most important thing for you had been e clearance between the PF spouts and drip tray? BTW, I am fully agreed with The BB reviewer who preferred the drip tray design of AD II instead of those of AD III. Profitec700 is a nice looking machine with German engineering - I reviewed the WWL videos about it. How much had you paid for it?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Hi, I bought mine from BB about 1.5 months ago. I did not think about the cost overall or the cost of spare parts etc. Hopefully it will last me a few good years before it breaks! I just wanted a dual boiler machine with a rotary pump, and for those they are roughly the same price. I liked the looks of the Profitec over the AD IV or the Verona, so I went for it.


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> One is hx . One is db . Enough difference alone there to start making some decisions based on functionality - flushing , changing brew temp. paired with your grinder I'm unsure there will be any appreciable difference ( if you can get the the same temp etc )
> 
> Buy a Brewtus - put the rest towards another grinder


Thank you Mrboots2u! Please, advice what is the best successor of my Mazzer Mini Electronic Type A and what do you say about only burr upgrade with SJ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Prusev71 said:


> Thank you Mrboots2u! Please, advice what is the best successor of my Mazzer Mini Electronic Type A and what do you say about only burr upgrade with SJ?


I have no opinion sorry as I have not owned one or upgraded one of the minis. My comment on the two machines aren't based on experience but they also offer a different user experience and functionally purely by being a dual boiler and a hx machine . The same could be said of any db and hx machine .

There are lots of grinders out there that can be picked up new and second hand they " on paper " have differences to a mazzer mini . You need to to specify a budget , space and again how you wanna use it .

Id start a new thread for they too as this have gone way of where it started


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

pessutojr said:


> Hi, I bought mine from BB about 1.5 months ago. I did not think about the cost overall or the cost of spare parts etc. Hopefully it will last me a few good years before it breaks! I just wanted a dual boiler machine with a rotary pump, and for those they are roughly the same price. I liked the looks of the Profitec over the AD IV or the Verona, so I went for it.


Thank you! I think that you continue to use the water tank instead of plumbing and you are happy with the quality of shot? I was thinking of plumbing, but my kitchen is tiny and there is no proper conditions for plumbing. Have you thought about the descaling of SS boiler as those of Profited? Could it be easier to maintain SS than copper boiler?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Is there any ways you guys can go and experience machines otherwise you gonna be stuck in a never round of Internet research and opinion . The only opinion to some degree that matter is yours


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

I have the Mazzer Mini E which I changed the burrs to S J burrs, It is definitely a worth while change giving much faster output without any loss in quality.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Prusev71, I think @Mrboots2u has a very good advice there. The best way is to take a day and go to Bella Barista where they will have the machines on display. That's what I did. PS: I really like the Profitec and am very happy with it. I use it tank fed with Ashbeck. I haven't given much of a thought over SS vs Cu boilers, I just trust the manufacturers and their R&D.


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Is there any ways you guys can go and experience machines otherwise you gonna be stuck in a never round of Internet research and opinion . The only opinion to some degree that matter is yours


I am fully agree with you. Unfortunately in my country there is only an Expobar dealer where I tasted a shot from Breaths IV. I have had no chance to taste Rocket, Profitec, Alex, QuickMill. That is why I read a lot of information especially here. I am so thankfully to the whole community for the support! ?


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

pessutojr said:


> @Prusev71, I think @Mrboots2u has a very good advice there. The best way is to take a day and go to Bella Barista where they will have the machines on display. That's what I did. PS: I really like the Profitec and am very happy with it. I use it tank fed with Ashbeck. I haven't given much of a thought over SS vs Cu boilers, I just trust the manufacturers and their R&D.


Thank you! I am from Bulgaria, but when I have a chance to come in London I will visit BB for sure. ?


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Bella Barista is in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire, not quite London.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Prusev71 said:


> I am fully agree with you. Unfortunately in my country there is only an Expobar dealer where I tasted a shot from Breaths IV. I have had no chance to taste Rocket, Profitec, Alex, QuickMill. That is why I read a lot of information especially here. I am so thankfully to the whole community for the support!


Did you enjoy the Brewtus shot ? If so perhaps relax - buy something that is available - that YOU have tried and enjoyed ....


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## Prusev71 (Mar 19, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Did you enjoy the Brewtus shot ? If so perhaps relax - buy something that is available - that YOU have tried and enjoyed ....


Yes, I enjoyed it! Compared with my Rancilio Silvia the taste was more complex and with emphasized aroma of nuts. Unfortunately, the local dealer wants 1560 € for Brewtus IV and gives 1 year warranty while here the price is 1200 € (2 Y warranty plus delivery to BG included):

http://espresso-machines.nu

I would be happy to try the Rocket and other brands, but this would be possible abroud. I would purchase machine from BB, but the currency ratio impedes me seriously: 1 £ = 2.8 BGN, while 1 € = 1.96 BGN.

From other side I wonder if it is much easier to maintain HX than DB machines especially regarding the boilers and all components related - pressure stats and PID. (BTW, Dave had mentioned in his BB Giotto review that Rocket uses different brand than Gicar as electronic controlled in their machines. While Brewtus is armed with Gicar). My purchase will be focused on a unit which would be mainly customer self repairable, because I will rely only on spare parts, your support and my hands ☺


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