# Gaggia Classic doesn't seem too happy



## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Had my classic 3-4 years now, and I don't think its performing as well this last year or so.

Symptoms:

There's a longer wait between pressing the button and the coffee leaving the portafilter. Around 10 seconds I would say.

Even though the coffee appears fairly coarse, I have to tamp lighter to get a reasonable extraction. Otherwise it chokes up quite easily.

My last resort is to try a coarser grind and heavier tamp.

Is it common for the pump in these to weaken? I'm asking this, although I am far from technical when it comes to this stuff.

Any suggestions? I generally back flush the machine every few months. The group head is cleaned after every drink made, and I only have one a day on average.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Has it been descaled ? The head is cleaned ---- drink. Have you removed the shower screen (disc with tiny holes ) ?? Have you removed the dispersion block (metal disc behind the shower screen) two hexagon headed bolts holding. If not there is a good chance that there is coffee residue and scale reducing the flow.

Pumps usually work or do not.


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Hi El carajillo,

What do you mean by "The head is cleaned ---- drink"?

Havent descaled as such. Just back flushed. Is that not sufficient?

I removed the shower screen once but it was a while ago, i'll try that. Same with the dispersion block I think, but will have a look.

Thanks for your help.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

when you backflush do you use a cleaning agent like urnex cafiza? or just plain water ?

Maybe its you solenoid valve partially blocked. read this thread and see if you think your machine displays the same problem as the OP's and do the recommended maintenance suggested.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27488-trickle-from-Classic


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> when you backflush do you use a cleaning agent like urnex cafiza? or just plain water ?
> 
> Maybe its you solenoid valve partially blocked. read this thread and see if you think your machine displays the same problem as the OP's and do the recommended maintenance suggested.
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27488-trickle-from-Classic


I use Puly Caff powder. Will check the link now.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

shinsplint said:


> Hi El carajillo,
> 
> What do you mean by "The head is cleaned ---- drink"?
> 
> ...


Just querying your statement about cleaning after each drink without typing in full, querying how deeply you had cleaned the head. Sorry for confusion


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

I just meant the shower plate, carajillo









Just read that guide on cleaning the solenoid. With the machine only being 3-4 years old with light use, i'm not sure this is the problem, but im going to give ti a try. Won't do any harm. It looks a comprehensive guide, thanks


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Backflushing and descaling are not the same. Backflushing cleans the solenoid operated pressure relief system of coffee residue. Descaling removes scale build up from the boiler, water and steam circuits.

Scale build up can affect flow if it gets bad enough. If you haven't descaled in 3-4 years then its overdue.

Have you reduced the over pressure valve (OPV) setting to lower the extraction pressure? My Classic was behaving a bit oddly (sensitive to choking) but adjusting the OPV sorted it out, I suspect because the OPV was stuck somehow - your's could be the same. The OPV opens at a set pressure and spills excess water back to the reservoir. If its stuck partially open the flow to the group head will be reduced as will the pressure. Some scale may have got stuck in the valve. I think in my case just turning the adjustment screw freed it up.

Also, check for any leaks around the pump.


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks Stuart, will descale first.

I wouldnt have a clue how to reduce the OPV. This is a standard machine, other than the usual steam wand mod.

Cheers.


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Is there a specific recommended descaler I should use for the Gaggia Classic?

Ignore that, found it


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Just do a search for OPV and you'll find plenty of info on how to do it.

Report back after descaling.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

shinsplint said:


> Just read that guide on cleaning the solenoid. *With the machine only being 3-4 years old with light use, i'm not sure this is the problem*, but im going to give ti a try. Won't do any harm. It looks a comprehensive guide, thanks


The person on the thread I linked to had their machine the same amount of years as you and it was the solenoid.

My solenoid got partially blocked and ive had the machine less than a year from new. its how I found the guide.


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Well I descaled it, with an entire bottle of Gaggia Descaler, following the instructions. Its working much better









I have noticed the machine sounds a bit stronger... a more consistent tone when extracting. It also doesn't take as long for the coffee to come through. I would say 5 seconds or so, as opposed to 10 seconds or even more.

I have also wound back my Iberital MC2 grinder about 15 turns which has got me back to the consistency I used to have.

The reason I was trying to go for a finer grind, was that I read somewhere that the grinds for espresso should not feel grainy to touch, and more like a fine powder. But to be honest i'm getting better results with a slightly coarser grind. Any thoughts on this?...... Question for those with a Classic - how would you describe your grind consistency?? Is it a case of, the better the machine, the finer the grinds can be?

For reference, on this chart I would say i'm at number 3 or 5. Which would indicate im at a much finer level than I thought - http://i.imgur.com/ir499ZF.jpg


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I would say my grinds look more like No.1 they feel like talcom powder

Ive started to dose less into the basket now. I find I prefer the taste from finer ground under dosed to that of slightly coarser and fuller filled basket.


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

Cheers JR, I think I find the same, will try that.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

15 turns on an mc2 is a big difference in grind. Are you using a non-pressurised filter? When my mc2 was dialled in, i only needed to adjust by a max of one turn as the beans aged.

Espresso grind is fine such that when you press a finger onto the grinds they pack together and keep the shape. Not quite as fine as talc though.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

15 Turns on the MC2 really isnt that much from memory, well within normal adjustment range between espresso blends.

Just a few basics...

What basket are you using (non-pressurised + size)?

Are you using the right amount of coffee for the basket?

Are you aiming for a 2:1 ratio as a starting point? (17g of coffee would be 34g of espresso, in about 25 seconds)

What coffee are you using?

I wouldn't say the grounds should feel like talc, this is a bit fine, but when tamped in the basket they should stay put when turned upside down and form a smooth surface.


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## shinsplint (Oct 18, 2012)

I should have been clearer - by 15 turns I meant more like 15 1/3 turns.

Using a Gaggia Double basket. Non-pressurised.

As for ratios and all that. I basically just fill the basket almost level to the top. I don't bother weighing anything. I often have a 1 year old scurrying about my feet, so making coffee the way I do is difficult enough lol.

At the moment, Rave Italian Job, but i've decided to stick to Signature blend or others in future. Even now i've got everything right, I just prefer other beans now.


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## wilse (Nov 14, 2013)

As others will probably comment... get some cheapo scales £5.

I was sceptical, but it's helped a lot.

My grind is fine, a bit less than talc, but it's powdery not grainy.

I tamp quite firm too.

I try for around 18g, I don't weigh it coming out [not now] as I can roughly work this out visually.

I too am on Rave beans, Columbian Suarez, being a regular, as it's easier to get a good result if I don't leave it to de-gas for 2 weeks.

I found the Italian was a handful and only tasted better, towards the end of the 2 weeks.

Always something to learn!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

shinsplint said:


> I should have been clearer - by 15 turns I meant more like 15 1/3 turns.
> 
> Using a Gaggia Double basket. Non-pressurised.
> 
> ...


My basket is also filled to the top before tamping, so you are probably in the right ball park. However you will never be able to be sure of anything without measuring implements, you dont need to use them every time (although it helps) whilst also taking care of the kids, but for 'dialing in' they make a big difference to getting it right.

You can try posting a good pic of the grinds and people can let you know if they look fine enough as well. Depending on how much you want to test the machine you can probably also buy a pressure gauge from a member to test pressure and you scales will allow you to test the flow rate.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

I would second the use of scales to weigh the dose. I also judge rather than weighing the output except when dialling in. I'm using a 17g VST basket and it is not quite full before tamping. The standard basket has a bit less volume though.

I tried Rave Signature but prefer the IJ for milk drinks - the Signature was getting a bit "lost" in the milk.

I still say it's worth doing the OPV mod on your Classic - it made mine more consistent.


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