# Too good to be true?!



## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

Looking for a circa £1000 machine/grinder combination I notice that espresso-machines.nu is offering the Expobar Brewtus 4 PID + Cunill Tranquil Tron for 1300 Euros. That seems a bargain, so what if anything am I missing?!


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

To put this in context, I'm also considering the following:

NS Oscar ii-£848 with mods and Eureka Mignon (Elektros.it)

Rocket Appartamento--£969 (Bella...)

Expobar Office Leva £1185 (Bella Barista), no grinder

Profitec Pro 3000. £1090 (caffeitalia), no grinder

The Profitec only seems to be available on overseas sites, but looks the most impressive (on paper).


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Well I've never like the cunhil Tranquilo and the Tron version don't look a lot better...I think it's a fairly horrible grinder, but hey that's just me.

Again I know of someone selling up a whole heap of great kit which could be a much better proposition in terms of not having to upgrade again. Duetto MK IV and great grinder, but it's a lot more than your budget, however, arguably better value. Machine has nearly 1 year of warranty and grinder almost 2 years (both warranties supported by Bella Barista, best warranty in the business).* So if your inclined, keep your eye on the for sale part of the forum.*

Also be careful about warranty with your proposed purchase, as these are bought out warranties and any problem will see you having to send the machine overseas at your expense. Really not worth the hassle for such a small saving and the Expobar machines can be prone to early problems, lots are picked up by dealers at pre-delivery inspection, if they do one and many don't, especially the box shifters.

So you have had my advice for what it's worth....


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

Thanks for the advice Dave. I'd be more inclined to go the BB route if they did the Profitec 300, but they don't appear to stock it... which sends me back into the arms of overseas-based online retailers. Can't find a UK-based retailer for the Oscar ii either!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rortyfan said:


> Thanks for the advice Dave. I'd be more inclined to go the BB route if they did the Profitec 300, but they don't appear to stock it... which sends me back into the arms of overseas-based online retailers. Can't find a UK-based retailer for the Oscar ii either!


does that not tell you something then?


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

Errrr, not about the machines, no...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Neither the 300 or the NS is widely available in the UK. Presumably, the likes of BB could stock these if they wanted to. They don't. Presumably they think their existing stock is as good. So, there is your dilemma. Buy abroad, save a couple of quid and pray nothing goes wrong or buy from what is available


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Rortyfan said:


> Errrr, not about the machines, no...


Have you dropped someone like BB a mail asking about the 300 or Oscar II?

It might be worth an ask?


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

I will ask BB about the 300. On the more general point, BB stock the BDB, which seems to be the other or another entry level DB machine. Since that gets heavily discounted elsewhere I'd hazard that their margin on certain lines is higher than others. The Profitec 300 might undercut sales of the BDB and the Expobar machine they promote. Just another possible explanation...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

BB buy stock and have it sitting there. They give a 2 year warranty from themselves. A lot f sellers are box shifters. They hold no stock. They simply take an order and pass it on without further ado. When you have a problem, they do not hold the warranty, so unless you are buying Fracino which is the only British manufacturer, you are going to be dealing with either an importer or a company. It is not true to say the margins on all machines are the same. At the moment buying stock from Europe is dear due to exchange rates. A machine that is £x at BB today, might well not be in a couple f weeks


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

Indeed. But I didn't say the margins were the same on all machines. I said precisely the opposite!


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

I contacted BB. They don't stock the Pro 300 because they prefer the alternative/s at that price-point. I imagine that means Sage and Expobar. Of course, I'm now terribly confused about the difference between a Brewtus (iv) and an Office Leva (ii). Assuming the Brewtus iii is the same as the Leva ii, the Brewtus iv seems to be a US-only model (no mention of Brewtus at all on the Expobar/Crem website!). Is that right?


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## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

I think the Brewtus is known here as the Office Leva dual boiler.


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

Hi Ian. They appear to be nearly identical, but the Brewtus IV has 'upgrades' over the III (which I take is equivalent to the Leva 2!), including an off switch for the steam-boiler and better internal piping (that is what video reviews of the Biv show). I'm just interested to learn why Expobar don't themselves use that name on their european sites!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rortyfan said:


> Hi Ian. They appear to be nearly identical, but the Brewtus IV has 'upgrades' over the III (which I take is equivalent to the Leva 2!), including an off switch for the steam-boiler and better internal piping (that is what video reviews of the Biv show). I'm just interested to learn why Expobar don't themselves use that name on their european sites!


because in europe the name is trademarked hence the change from Brewtus to leva


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## Ian_T (Aug 15, 2016)

The office Leva is the heat exchanger machine without PID and is called the same here as in the USA. The Brewtus name is a bit strange isn't it. Its not on their main site for Europe but it is part of the part number on the German site...

I thought it was just an American/Whole Latte Love thing to make it sound big and strong but maybe not...


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## Rortyfan (Jul 29, 2016)

What piqued my interest was the Dutch site espresso-machines.nu selling the Brewtus iv. I haven't idea how grey markets operate but it seemed odd that a tradename used only in the US was appearing on a Euro site!


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