# Bottomless Portafilter Noob Advice



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Hey everyone looking for advice here. Got a bottomless portafilter at the same time my sprouted handle broke so forced to use it all the time. I am having trouble however.

Using Rocky Rancillio grinder, modded so I can get a lot more out of the chute

Gaggia Classic with Mods, inc 9 bar opv I believe, I am awaiting equipment to check the pressure.

I weigh 18g and grind into portafilter with a plastic sticky toffee sponge case including hole. Then I mix using a chopstick. Then level using my finger, this doesn't always fill the basket depending on coffee. Then I tamp depending on the coffee. I don't tap the basket or anything just straight into gaggia.

The grinder is set to 7, and works for most coffee apart from the gamoji decaffe from rave, which has blocked all my attempts, even with rocky on 8 and light tamp and only lets out 1ml or so of water over a minute.

Here's my one from today so you can see the mess. I tried to upload the photos of my prep but the upload keeps failing for some reason. This one was messier than average, usually I can barely see the side jets and it spray like there are bubble popping underneath the portafilter, all the while looking like its working as I get a single stream under the centre.











1, I am waiting for a niche zero, will that solve my woes?

2, Also when it works ok, or even with the smaller invisible mess, it tastes a lot nicer, better than with sprouts, is that just my head thinking its a lot better?

3, What is causing this?


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Wow that's total fail. Are you sure you are down to 9.5bar static? Please make a video with all your routine including grinding, distribution, tamping.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Choronzon said:


> 1, I am waiting for a niche zero, will that solve my woes?
> 
> 2, Also when it works ok, or even with the smaller invisible mess, it tastes a lot nicer, better than with sprouts, is that just my head thinking its a lot better?
> 
> 3, What is causing this?


1. Yes the Niche will solve this as long as the problem is not badly roasted or very stale coffee

2. It could be your expectation, it could be that your portafilter is not as clean inside or in the spouts as you think

3. Probably the grinder, but also see 1.

I don't find 8, 9, or 10 bar makes much difference, distribution and tamping can help a little but most likely not to the extent of fixing that. I guess you are looking for something like this. Niche grinder, Brazilian coffee over 1 month old, vibe pump running at around 10 bar.


----------



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Hey, thankyou both for your help, that is super helpful, when the niche comes I will use the rocky for filter/coarser stuff. It is actually quite old coffee in this case in the video - at least 2 month old highland roast I think. However I tried again using a different basket this time, a "IMS competizione B70 2T h26.5 M" and it came out very well, with no visible side stream/spray/mist/mess.

4 Could the basket have an effect?

Thankyou for the other points DavecUK, I have just cleaned in cafiza the spouts and they weren't in good shape, I was wondering if it was phsychological, I would say I'm getting more crema too. Bearing in mind also I never used to try breaking up the lumps so maybe I am also getting better technique. All the more reason to look forward to the niche, I will report back on my pressure findings, good to know it isn't a major factor in taste however between 8-10.


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I don't think that your current grinder is not capable to produce nicely looking bottomless shot, in terms of taste is different story. Today I made myself a bottomless portafilter for Classic and in a hurry tested it with absolutely low end grinder Gaggia MDF. Shot went normal without channeling or something and on top of that it was single(9g) way difficult compared to standard double in terms of bottomless extractions.


----------



## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Choronzon said:


> Hey, thankyou both for your help, that is super helpful, when the niche comes I will use the rocky for filter/coarser stuff. It is actually quite old coffee in this case in the video - at least 2 month old highland roast I think. However I tried again using a different basket this time, a "IMS competizione B70 2T h26.5 M" and it came out very well, with no visible side stream/spray/mist/mess.
> 
> 4 Could the basket have an effect?
> 
> Thankyou for the other points DavecUK, I have just cleaned in cafiza the spouts and they weren't in good shape, I was wondering if it was phsychological, I would say I'm getting more crema too. Bearing in mind also I never used to try breaking up the lumps so maybe I am also getting better technique. All the more reason to look forward to the niche, I will report back on my pressure findings, good to know it isn't a major factor in taste however between 8-10.


I would use the Niche for all the coffee, it's really easy to go back and forth to different grind settings and it goes right back to the right espresso setting with no problem at all.

I use IMS baskets as well as VST (thanks @dfk41), the IMS are good and probably more forgiving than the VSTs...so yes the basket can have an effect. Poor grinder with the 18g VST and I would get a shot like yours, it would "look" better on an IMS, but what we want is quality flavour. Something that really extracts nice because of the grind. It's why I put that vid up for you....nice and even out the bottom and held together for ages. Allowing an interesting 40g output, rather than say 30g before breaking up.

The biggest effect on taste after bean, grind quality and cleanliness is technique and temperature/ temperature stability..


----------



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Quick update I just got my pressure gauge and it jumps past 14(max) so fast it looks like it would go around again. So it looks like my static pressure is very high. Thanks for all you input, I will try and reduce the pressure to 10 and see what happens. I though my machine had had the OPV mod already so was worried the pressure may be low, assuming the pump isn't as powerful and leaky bits.


----------



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

a 540 degree turn of the opv got it down to 12, another ~200 degree turn got it to 10. That was surprisingly easy, glad I bought tools when I stripped the boiler. Will update later on how it goes at 10, and maybe reduce it again just a tad.


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I was sure that your pressure is high, 9.5 is the best value for Classic though.

BR


----------



## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Now you want to work grinder settings up the ladder so the machine won't choke.

Surely a good grinder is vital to arrive at an even coarseness, no static or clumps.

However, I'd firstly fine-tune my distribution and tamping technique (go finer than a chopstick for instance, we have a couple threads on DYI and off-the-shelf stirrers). Creating a homogeneous puck is important to avoid channeling or uneven extraction.

Taste-wise, 18g are not a universal answer. Feel encouraged to experiment - as long as you don't under-/overfill the basket (leave headroom for expansion), there's no right or wrong.








happy grinding!


----------



## Choronzon (Jun 16, 2018)

Thankyou so much everyone







I reduced it another 180 this morning and its between 9.5 and 10 bar. Interestingly, after reducing the pressure, the flow rate through the basket increased. I think I can see why, the water was so high pressure it was causing the puck to block the basket. So instead of having to increase the coarseness, I have had to reduce it one notch, against my own expectations too. Now using 6 on my rocky instead of 7, with the same tamp. Here is my best one so far, happened to film it just now, this is using 18g of Rave Swiss Water Decaffe, and the taste of these shots, which were previously very nice but hit and miss, are just amazing now, much nicer, getting some buiscuty taste from these beans I never noticed before. Take a look.






Thankyou Hasi, I will start to experiment with coffee mass aswell, sometimes low density leaves me with a basket that I cant level well. I saw some of the whisks people were using too. I do have a Niche on order so might hold off on that for now however.


----------



## MrLatte (Sep 15, 2018)

Wow what a difference it made after the adjustments, the first attempt was like a weapon spurting out all over the place. These bottomless portafilters are definitely worth having


----------

