# Interesting first descale......



## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Had my Duetto Mk4 from BB since April 2013. House water all softened and drinking water on inline Brita filter in addition. 4yr old kettle still sparkles like new.

Finally got round to first descaling today. Following the simple, clear BB guide, got busy with the citric acid granules. After the half hour soak, the boiler water came out a perfectly clear pale blue no bits! The several repeat drains were a paler clear blue until they ran as clear water. Steam wand disgorged sprays of filthy black water each time, really odd.

All clean now and seasoning shots pulled, and the steam and water knobs turn more easily, but I'm not in a hurry to repeat the process until another 10/12 months time.

Just shows that water softening and Brita really preserve the machine in good nick (we're in a seriously hard water area) though I imagine there may be some folks who argue that these processes remove some of the vital elements of water which give the shots their flavour and character? ?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Good to hear the instructions were easy to follow and that the machine is working again as expected.

I'm yet to descale mine (9 months old now) and will wait until about May before completing the task.

I only run Volvic through it and no sign of issues as yet.

How long did it take from start to finish?


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Hi Glenn,

I reckon it took about an hour and 20 mins all in. After filling the boiler with descaler, it says to leave it half an hour, then draw some so out, add more descaler and leave for 15 mins, so time in between free do other things. The only tedious part is the repeated flushing, switching off, draining, switching on, refilling and repeating three or four times. The Duetto behaved exactly as the BB instructions said


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Should you ever get the urge to do it all over again just give me a buzz









Seriously, that's fantastic feedback and shows that the machines are user serviceable.

Some people are put off buying them, falsely believing that you need to return dual boilers back to base to descale them.


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Ha ha!

But yes, plenty of online generic info says to avoid double boilers as they are impossible to descale without returning to the suppliers. Especially ones without a drain plug on each boiler. It was not much more involved or time consuming than my previous Miss Silvia! The Duetto is a quality piece of kit


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

IanP said:


> Had my Duetto Mk4 from BB since April 2013. House water all softened and drinking water on inline Brita filter in addition. 4yr old kettle still sparkles like new.
> 
> Finally got round to first descaling today. Following the simple, clear BB guide, got busy with the citric acid granules. After the half hour soak, the boiler water came out a perfectly clear pale blue no bits! The several repeat drains were a paler clear blue until they ran as clear water. Steam wand disgorged sprays of filthy black water each time, really odd.
> 
> ...


I hope you re lubricated the group with Dow Corning Molycote 111.

Also, please *don't descale your machine again*....unless your water system changes to hard water. It says somewhere in the instructions inside a box with red text (page 24,25 or 26, I can't remember eexcatly) to use your kettle as a guide with respect to descaling.


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> I hope you re lubricated the group with Dow Corning Molycote 111.
> 
> Also, please *don't descale your machine again*....unless your water system changes to hard water. It says somewhere in the instructions inside a box with red text (page 24,25 or 26, I can't remember eexcatly) to use your kettle as a guide with respect to descaling.


Thanks for this Dave. Curiously I wasn't sure whether to descale or not from those very instructions so I emailed Claudette at BB who advised I should do it to be on the safe side and to prevent potential scale build up on valves and seals inside. Softened water and inline Brita have kept the kettle sparkling for years.

Clearly you are the man who knows!

No, I haven't relubricated the group......don't recall reading that in the booklet nor instructions on how to do that? Maybe you could advise please and also where to buy it?

Not in a hurry to descale again any time soon whatever.

Wonder how many others here have descaled unnecessarily like me?

Thanks again.

Ian


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Might be an idea to remind claudette Dave!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

From memory, when you back flush or descale the chemicals strip the lubricant off the cams and pins in the 'moving parts' ie the handle for pulling the shot and stiffen up. No doubt Dave will offer the correct explanation!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> From memory, when you back flush or descale the chemicals strip the lubricant off the cams and pins in the 'moving parts' ie the handle for pulling the shot and stiffen up. No doubt Dave will offer the correct explanation!


Your absolutely correct

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/e61-lubrication

Also with descaling you have to be very careful, lots of people say they're using good water, but they are not. Some used bottled mineral waters, the interesting thing here is that mineral waters have, well, minerals in them. Some can cause quite bad scaling. Hence the advice to descale perhaps once a year to be safe. Lots of people don't have great knowledge of the water they are using. IanP obviously knows his stuff and has a good setup, so as long as that remains stable, scaling should never be required. I don't descale my machines.....ever.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

...so would you say that a machine using Volvic exclusively would never need descaling?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Milanski said:


> ...so would you say that a machine using Volvic exclusively would never need descaling?


If their concentrations are accurate, it probably would not need descaling.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Very glad I found this thread. I have had my machine about 4 months and used brita filtered water for the first 3 weeks before switching to volvic and I was thinking that at about 6 months I better descale but I think unless I notice a reason to might push this out to a year


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## IanP (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks for this DavecUK. Have ordered the Molykote and will subsequently follow the clear instructions on the link you kindly provided!

The brew lever has squeaked on occasions and the steam arm ball joint has started to move less freely, so looks like the Molykote will be used there too as you suggest.

All very helpful thanks.

Ian

PS. Looking forward to never descaling again...................? Just the regular water backflush and monthly Puly backflush should suffice?

Maybe Glenn won't need to do his after all


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

IanP said:


> Thanks for this DavecUK. Have ordered the Molykote and will subsequently follow the clear instructions on the link you kindly provided!
> 
> The brew lever has squeaked on occasions and the steam arm ball joint has started to move less freely, so looks like the Molykote will be used there too as you suggest.
> 
> ...


AND...this

http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/how-to-make-a-big-improvement-in-shot-quality


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> AND...this
> 
> http://coffeetime.wikidot.com/how-to-make-a-big-improvement-in-shot-quality


A very interesting read, I shall be looking under the shower screen if my Cherub


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