# Water, Revisted



## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Alejandro already posted this on the other thread, but I think it may get buried there as it is already 7 pages.

I just watched the latest Tamper Tantrum from Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood (people who follow the UKBC will know he is the 2014 champ, and his routine was based on water).

It's interesting as he has a different approach than TDS, and challenges Ashbeck and Volvic as well.

Well worth a watch

http://www.tampertantrum.com/


----------



## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

I reckon this sort of confirms the efficacy of what I already do Aaron.

As you will remember from my thread in the Londinium forum and also on Coffee Forums, the use of a TDS meter only has any meaning if you have already removed all of the solids from the water first.

So, run your water through a reverse osmosis system first, and then start adding solids, then when measured with a TDS meter, you know what those solids are and how many of them are there... It is always best to use an appropriate reagent test occasionally as well, as a check.

Briefly, I have a TDS meter immediately following my RO membrane, the meter reads 00 ppm, the water then gets polished with a carbon filter... When this is read by the next TDS meter (as shown at the beginning of the video, it reads 5 ppm... The water then goes through the "SJ special remineralisation cartridge" which is made specially for me by Pozzani water systems, on exiting this "calcite bed", the TDS meter then reads somewhere between 50 and 90ppm, this figure depends on how long the "calcite bed" has been holding water... i.e. not being drawn.

*The "SJ special" is made from 50% calcium (ground marble), and 50% magnesium (corosex),...*

https://londiniumespresso.com/forum/londinium-i-owners-forum/30-plumbed-in-what-about-water-quality

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?11598-Plumbing-in-an-L1/page2&highlight=water+sjenner

Perhaps I should write a book!


----------



## radish (Nov 20, 2011)

Very interesting talk. Bit of a long shot, but does anyone know if cafes in Glasgow are adding minerals to their (soft) water supply (I think Brew Lab in Edinburgh do)?


----------



## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

He's got a book (I think it's just going to be an e-book) coming out later in the year on the subject as well


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Thanks for posting this, lots to think about!


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Cant watch those vids at the mo as I'm on my mobile, can anyone do a quick overview of what he talks about?


----------



## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Cant watch those vids at the mo as I'm on my mobile, can anyone do a quick overview of what he talks about?


the levels of calcium and magnesium are more important than TDS, but everyone obsesses over TDS. Certain minerals are beneficial to taste and extraction.

Two places can have the same TDS but the water tastes different, so maybe one roaster cups his coffee and it tastes great and you do whatever you brew every way you can think of and it tastes shit.

People should adjust the water for mineral composition in their filtration system (jn softw ater areas you may even have to add some). A properly set up filtration system should give better results than ashbeck or volvic.

That's a very very loose description, and the video is worth watching when you can as Maxwell has put a lot of work into this.


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

radish said:


> Very interesting talk. Bit of a long shot, but does anyone know if cafes in Glasgow are adding minerals to their (soft) water supply (I think Brew Lab in Edinburgh do)?


Don't think Papercup do, the guy that runs it said he thought the water was slightly too soft and didn't mention adding anything back in


----------



## radish (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks - I'll try and cadge a bottle from Brew Lab next time I'm in Edinburgh!



jeebsy said:


> Don't think Papercup do, the guy that runs it said he thought the water was slightly too soft and didn't mention adding anything back in


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

sjenner said:


> I reckon this sort of confirms the efficacy of what I already do Aaron.
> 
> As you will remember from my thread in the Londinium forum and also on Coffee Forums, the use of a TDS meter only has any meaning if you have already removed all of the solids from the water first.
> 
> ...


Very interesting info, thanks.

After reading various articles it seems that you still need some buffer just to round off the edges. Does your setup address this at all or does it just introduce ca and mg into the pure water. I'm interested in getting my machine plumbed in and not sure what direction to take.

Cheers

Spence


----------



## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I caught on to something Maxwell said about Volvic being good, but essentially having a high buffer quantity with not enough magnesium/calcium to draw out the flavour. So I've just tried filtering Volvic through my BWT water filter which (unlike Brita etc) actually puts magnesium into the water. I'm sitting here with my Aeropress brew and it is definitely different from plain Volvic... and I'd say it is more enjoyable.

Anyone else got one of these filters? Definitely worth a go


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

fluffles said:


> I caught on to something Maxwell said about Volvic being good, but essentially having a high buffer quantity with not enough magnesium/calcium to draw out the flavour. So I've just tried filtering Volvic through my BWT water filter which (unlike Brita etc) actually puts magnesium into the water. I'm sitting here with my Aeropress brew and it is definitely different from plain Volvic... and I'd say it is more enjoyable.
> 
> Anyone else got one of these filters? Definitely worth a go


I've got the 'free' one that you can get from their website. I'm might give it a go over the weekend and see what happens.


----------



## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

sjenner said:


> I reckon this sort of confirms the efficacy of what I already do Aaron.
> 
> As you will remember from my thread in the Londinium forum and also on Coffee Forums, the use of a TDS meter only has any meaning if you have already removed all of the solids from the water first.
> 
> ...


Stephen, the guy from Pozzani suggested I have the 'polishing' filter after your SJ special. I did wonder if it would filter out some of that calcium/magnesium. Would you suggest I swap them round?

Also, could you point me in the direction of the in-line TDS meter please?


----------



## nvening (May 6, 2014)

Anyone know the title of the paper he is talking about? I can see if I can access it assuming it is published


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Glad water is finally getting some well earned attention, its the missing link for me.

Clearview (available in tesco and cheaper than Ashbeck - bonus!) is the best bottled water I have come across for coffee, the mineral profile isn't vastly different on paper to Ashbeck or Waitrose but a tangible improvement in the cup.


----------



## radish (Nov 20, 2011)

nvening said:


> Anyone know the title of the paper he is talking about? I can see if I can access it assuming it is published


Yeah, I have the link somewhere - I'll post it later on today.


----------



## radish (Nov 20, 2011)

Here's the link (it's a PDF):

http://people.bath.ac.uk/chh34/jafc_2014.pdf


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ashbeck left , clearview right









Note clear view has double the magnesium and a third more calcium , as well as almost double of the buffer


----------



## radish (Nov 20, 2011)

Hmm, must give it a go - though annoyingly there isn't a Tesco supermarket close by (never thought I'd say that!)


----------



## Alejandro (Sep 16, 2013)

From Maxwell's co-author on twitter:

chhendon

@v3ec @tampertantrum @sprudge

Here we go:

pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.102&#8230;

Read if for free here:

people.bath.ac.uk/chh34/jafc_201&#8230;


----------

