# Hello, a few question before I commit



## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

Hi everyone,

Just joined the forum after spending about a week deciding and researching coffee machines and accessories. Thanks for all the advice posted on the forum it was very helpful. I'm almost ready to lay down some serious cash but first wanted to go over a few things to make sure I've got a good setup for my needs.

I've had the Gaggia Classic for about 7 years but still consider myself a beginner. The last couple of weeks the pressure has completely gone. I've descaled the machine before but probably not enough and I've only just discovered back flushing so never done that (is it possible on the Classic?). I used to use illy beans but recently I've just been using Lavazza pre-ground as I couldn't justify the cost/taste difference. Turns out the blade (yes, I know) grinder (and probably the beans) were to blame before the machine then went as well. Anyway, if anyone thinks it's salvageable then let me know how. Also, if someone wants to take it off my hands for a few quid that'd be fine too. I live in Aldershot but work in London so could meet. Otherwise it's going to the tip.

So, after a short but embarrassing relapse looking at pod machines I decided to up my game as I started to realise all the ways I'd been doing it wrong with the Classic.

So next, my preferences. I drink espresso but sometimes a long black (especially as the Gaggia started failing and the output was bitter). I also like the odd cap or latte. Another thing the Gaggia never seemed particularly good at was the milk steaming. It took ages and seemed overly frothy but that could have been my technique (what technique?!). I don't drink much during the week except when I'm working from home which is once or twice a week. Though I might be spending more time at home once my contract finishes. I may go back to taking lattes in to work in the morning but I don't have a lot of time. Maybe if I get quick enough. I definitely have a few at the weekend though as does my girlfriend.

So now for my chosen setup and intended suppliers.


Fracino Piccino £550 (inc VAT + delivery, cheapest I've found) thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk or coffee-services.co.uk (same price)

Iberital MC2 Auto Grinder £114 happydonkey.co.uk

Espresso Starter Pack Beans £20 hasbean.co.uk

A bunch of accessories from creamsupplies.co.uk (the Motta stuff looks nice).


I had a look at some single boilers such as the La Pavoni Puccino, Rancilio Silvia and Isomac Venus. There is little information on the Puccino and Venus and the Silvia seems fiddly. They all seem a bit old too. I like the idea of being able to steam milk at the same time as pulling an espresso (although obviously I won't be this clever to begin with).

The MC2 comes highly recommended and is at a good price point for me. It's not a looker though so if anyone has better suggestions that would go well with the Piccino I'm all ears.

I will be trying all sorts of beans to find the ones I like and I'll probably use up the pre-ground to compare with and practice. I know I have some work to do and I'm prepared to spend some time getting this right.

Anyway, hopefully that's it (it should be, that's a long post!). TIA.

Cheers,

Phil


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Hi Phil and Welcome to Coffee Forums UK

Slightly less ugly is the Ascaso i-Mini grinder, which is similar in spec to the MC2.

Don't forget to add VAT to the MC2 (about £130ish all in)

The Piccino is a fun machine to use, and easily handles a volume of espresso

Great to see Coffee Forums UK advertisers being considered - thankyou for supporting them!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Piccino needs to be sent back to the factory to be descaled, apparently, which s possibly why more people favour the Cherub


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi Phil

Welcome to the forum









I think you are heading in the right direction with that list.

Single boiler dual use (like the Classic and Silvia) are good up until a point (say £400). The design is proven - but thermal stability can be an issue.

Above this price point people like to go for dual boiler machines, or HX machines that favor better stability (and can easily pull multiple shots/steam at the same time).

The Fracino Piccino is a good dual boiler machine in its price range,

Negatives:-

- No hot water tap, so it is very hard to descale (i.e. you need to send it back to Fracino every 6 months).

- The dual boilers are tiny.

The current recommendation is the Fracino Cherub (HX machine). This retails at approx £650.

The Cherub is thermally very stable, and IMHO there is probably nothing better up to £1000.

I think the MC2 is an excellent grinder, but, I would save another £150 over the Piccino and get a Cherub!

Hope that helps


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks for the replies, guys.

The iMini does look a bit better (and I had forgotten to add VAT the second time I checked the website so thanks for the reminder, Glenn). Amazon seem to be doing it for £145 which seems ok.

Trouble is I'm already way over my budget with the Piccino. I was initially looking to spend about £400. I'm not sure I want to stretch that even further and I have to say I prefer the looks of the Piccino to the Cherub and I suspect the girlfriend would most certainly prefer it looks-wise. However, I'm not too fond of having to return it every six months. There is something very wrong for consumer machines to require this. That doesn't seem right.

As far as the advertisers are concerned most of them came up in searches I was doing and I eventually just checked them all out in the reviews section and discarded the ones that people suggested avoiding.

One thing I don't quite understand is how does having a tap help descaling? Is it not possible to use descaler with hot water? I think I'm missing something here.


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

I found another post on here that says the Piccino needs returning every year. I've sent a message to Fracino to confirm. I understand the descaling problem now as well.

I'm still thinking about the Cherub, *goes off to find more pictures*.

Thanks.


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

cant comment on the rest but you can back flush a classic did mine this morning for the first time (cover basket with cling film and 2-3 second bursts on the pump switch) sounds like your classic could do with a service.....and most suggest descale every 3 months.

After 7 years it must have been quite clogged up....... they can be repaired and serviced. The steam wand can be easily improved for £15 by fitting a Silvia steam wand. (I did this and makes a massive difference) I guess it depends how far your budget can stretch.......... Mine was sub £200 and managed to get a good deal on a new Classic for £170 delivered so with £50 for other bits Silvia wand etc came in at £220 so within 10%


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

Thanks HDAV.

I'll get the cleaning accessories as I'll need those whatever I decide.

What sort of prices am I looking at for servicing? £20, £50, £100, £150?

So is it not possible to backflush a Piccino?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It all depends on the hardness of your water. I live In newcastle and we are in a soft water area. I am lucky that I do not have to worry about lime scale build up. Go and check your kettle. If it is not furred up and is not new or you have not decsaled it, then perhaps like me you are lucky. Also do a google search on water hardness for your area and with a bit of luck, your water authority will have a postcode search for you to see yourself. As an alternate, you could simply use properly filtered water or I believe many use Volvic and this will remove the problem regarding going back to fracino.

A service kit should only cost a small amount. I always carry a couple of group seals, a blind filter for backflushing and Puly cafe or similar as an agent. £10 to £15


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

I know what lime scale is. I live in the South!

My issue was understanding how a hot water tap helps to descale it. However, I found the answer. It allows you to run the descaling solution right through the machine as far as I can tell. The Piccino has a filter socket too. Even filtered water will scale up a machine eventually.

I think I'm still leaning towards the Piccino once I have a plan for the servicing issue.

I've already ordered the grinder! One iMini left on Amazon so snapped it up!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

PhilT said:


> I know what lime scale is. I live in the South!
> 
> My issue was understanding how a hot water tap helps to descale it. However, I found the answer. It allows you to run the descaling solution right through the machine as far as I can tell. The Piccino has a filter socket too. Even filtered water will scale up a machine eventually.
> 
> ...


Piccino should be a nice step up for your classic.

Would be interesting to find out the cost of descaling too.

Good luck with your purchases.


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

Well I'll be damned! Simply back flushing with some water has fixed the Gaggia! I may just be saving up for the Cherub! The Classic may still need a proper service though.

Now I'm off to hasbean to buy some proper beans to go with my iMini grinder and some cleaning products!

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions (not question, doh!) in a few weeks!


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

Ok a quick search uncovered the following website:

http://www.gaggia-service.co.uk/our_prices.htm

Looks like about £116 for service, collection and delivery (inc VAT).


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## PhilT (Jan 19, 2013)

Just got a call from John McGinnell at Fracino! Very nice chap and has dispelled my fears regarding the Piccino.

He told me the following about the Piccino:


it can be back flushed

it does not require descaling as long as the filters are replaced regularly

for home use should be good for 10 years

if I buy it from them directly they'll take me round the factory and give me a barista lesson


I've not made a decision yet but I feel a road trip to Birmingham coming on!


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

PhilT said:


> Just got a call from John McGinnell at Fracino! Very nice chap and has dispelled my fears regarding the Piccino.
> 
> He told me the following about the Piccino:
> 
> ...


Can't really argue with that..although they cost a bit more directly from them...fracino are a helpful bunch


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

PhilT said:


> What sort of prices am I looking at for servicing? £20, £50, £100, £150?


Found a place in greenford (google) that stated £65 on the website (+ Shipping if required) http://mrbean2cup.co.uk/home/gaggia-classic?gclid=CPrstdmU-rQCFQ7LtAodlREAQg

Good DIY guide here: http://www.wholelattelove.com/tips.cfm?ItemID=35&tcid=6

May find a cheaper quote or someone who can do the OPV calibration service and fit Silva wand for similar money.

A good clean strip, wash descale and back flush may give you a functional machine for £10 (descaler and cleaner) and few hours with some basic tools... worth the effort as a used working classic is £70-£100.....


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