# Lelit grace questions



## Cafesolo

Hi all

I just got a new lelit grace, looks lovely, and i have a few questions which just i didnt see in the manual. I am guessing other lelits are the same.

There were two hoses in where the water deposit. Whats the difference?



















There were also 4 baskets. One is blank (no holes) then the other three there is one very shallow one mid depth and one quite deep.










I dont yet have a grinder and my few tries today with ore ground have yield poor results.

Thanks for any help!

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## L&R

Shallow basket is for ESE pods poor performance and the second hose is for returning water from OPV back to water tank. You should have got Victoria.


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## catpuccino

One of the tubes into the tank is a return line for water. The basket you identify is a pressurised basket, designed to make the best out of unsuitable ground coffee by artificially increasing the resistance from the puck (such as the pre-ground you've been trying). The other three baskets will be varying sizes of "normal" (non-pressurised) types, something like 9g, 18, 21g - I'm not sure exactly what Lelit ship. Edit: Mhm could be an ESE pod basket like L&R says.


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## Blue_Cafe

L&R said:


> Shallow basket is for ESE pods poor performance and the second hose is for returning water from OPV back to water tank. You should have got Victoria.


 Shoulda woulda coulda...

The Victoria is nearly 50% more expensive.

The Grace looks a great machine for the money.


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## L&R

If you have seen both opened, you woudnt comment but now is trendy to do so here.


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## Doram

Cafesolo said:


> I dont yet have a grinder and my few tries today with ore ground have yield poor results.


 You are unlikely to get good results with pre-ground beans unfortunately, because 1) Once the beans are ground they degrade much faster due to the increased surface area. This is even worse if you get factory packed coffee, which is unlikely to have been roasted and ground very recently. 2) It is unlikely that it will be the correct grind for your combination of dose/tamp/pressure/humidity etc. Making fine adjustments to the grind is essential to good results, and you will need a decent grinder to do that.

As others have said, one of the tubes is the water intake, and the other one returns water rejected by the over pressure valve to the tank.

The baskets are for pods and for different amounts of coffee. Most people find that the best results will come from using the double basket (the biggest one you have probably) which will probably take ~15g of ground coffee (info about the basket sizes should be in your manual).

Have fun with your new machine! 🙂


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## Cafesolo

L&R said:


> Shallow basket is for ESE pods poor performance and the second hose is for returning water from OPV back to water tank. You should have got Victoria.


Was just a bit too much main diff being that is is 58mm, almost the same otherwise

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## Blue_Cafe

L&R said:


> If you have seen both opened, you woudnt comment but now is trendy to do so here.


 Well, it's by all accounts a well made and executed machine.

Not everyone has the beans for the best a company can offer.

In this review of the Lelit Grace PID espresso machine and Fred grinder, we will reveal something special: This is a machine that delivers a cafe quality experience. This combo will not break your wallet. By and large, it all makes sense.

https://www.coffeecrew.com/gear-equipment-coffee/472-lelit-grace-pid-espresso-machine-and-fred-grinder.html


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## Cafesolo

Thanks all for the advice, yes i'm on the lookout for one.

One of the baskets has no holes i think thats for somethings else. From your comments i guess the shallowest one is the pressurised.

So far my extractions had low pressure the higher was 8 bar. So i think all i can do is tap harder. I also have another brand of pre ground to try tomorrow.

Should i just take it that its impossible to get a decent espresso from espresso coffee thats preground ? Why do they even sell it!

New try coffee below










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## catpuccino

L&R said:


> If you have seen both opened, you woudnt comment but now is trendy to do so here.


 Hang about I'm as fond of hot takes as the next person but curtly telling someone (presumably awash with excitement at their new purchase) they should have bought a different machine for considerably more money without even going so far as briefly explaining why is about the trendiest and rudest of the habits of this forum. It's tone deaf at best.


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## Blue_Cafe

Cafesolo said:


> Thanks all for the advice, yes i'm on the lookout for one.
> 
> One of the baskets has no holes i think thats for somethings else. From your comments i guess the shallowest one is the pressurised.
> 
> So far my extractions had low pressure the higher was 8 bar. So i think all i can do is tap harder. I also have another brand of pre ground to try tomorrow.
> 
> Should i just take it that its impossible to get a decent espresso from espresso coffee thats preground ? Why do they even sell it!
> 
> New try coffee below
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 For pre ground, use the pressurised baskets.

It will be ok.


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## catpuccino

Cafesolo said:


> Should i just take it that its impossible to get a decent espresso from espresso coffee thats preground ?


 It effectively is I'm afraid. They're sold for consumer grade espresso machines which often use pressurised baskets (it sounds like you've got one though, so try it!). I'd hold off until you get your grinder. Do you have one on order or is it something you've not looked at yet?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Cafesolo said:


> Hi all
> 
> I just got a new lelit grace, looks lovely, and i have a few questions which just i didnt see in the manual. I am guessing other lelits are the same.
> 
> There were two hoses in where the water deposit. Whats the difference?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There were also 4 baskets. One is blank (no holes) then the other three there is one very shallow one mid depth and one quite deep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont yet have a grinder and my few tries today with ore ground have yield poor results.
> 
> Thanks for any help!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 The longer pipe sucks water from the tank to into the boiler via a pump. The pump delivers approx.15 bar pressure. Therefore, to keep things at 9 or 10 bar, the magic number for espresso, there's an expansion valve between the pump and the boiler. So, when the circuit is primed, anything over 9 bar will force the valve to open and the excess will be diverted back to the tank, carried by the small tube.

in very gross terms. ????

enjoy the machine.

edit: put something on that warming tray so it doesn't get scratched.

i put a microfibre cloth. I was toying with rug anti-slip mesh, which is made from polyethylene, melting point between 115 and 135 celcius.

£2.50 for lots in IKEA.

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/stopp-anti-slip-underlay-80227877/


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## Doram

Cafesolo said:


> One of the baskets has no holes i think thats for somethings else.


 This is for backflushing - cleaning the internals of the machine. You use it to block the group and run either water or water with some coffee machine detergent. You put it in the portafilter, put that in the group and press the button as if you were making coffee. The water will hit the blank basket, go back into the group and flush out. You should do it often with water, and every now and then (depending on use, maybe every week or two) with detergent.

Pre ground is sold because people buy it, and you can use it in some situations, but your machine is too good for it, and you won't get even close to achieving it's potential with even the best of this sort of coffee I am afraid. This is my opinion anyway, maybe other people will tell you otherwise.


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## Cafesolo

catpuccino said:


> It effectively is I'm afraid. They're sold for consumer grade espresso machines which often use pressurised baskets (it sounds like you've got one though, so try it!). I'd hold off until you get your grinder. Do you have one on order or is it something you've not looked at yet?


I was going to buy a lelit fred, which was on offer but the offer ended. At the offer price was a good one to the replace down the line.

I am now thinking what to get to start, i really wanted to keep it under £200, which i know is a bit frowned upon in the forum... i need to experience a lower end before i will spend more.

Not many options around tbh, thinking of maybe the sage pro, just £200. Not convinced yet.

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## catpuccino

Cafesolo said:


> I was going to buy a lelit fred, which was on offer but the offer ended. At the offer price was a good one to the replace down the line.
> 
> I am now thinking what to get to start, i really wanted to keep it under £200, which i know is a bit frowned upon in the forum... i need to experience a lower end before i will spend more.
> 
> Not many options around tbh, thinking of maybe the sage pro, just £200. Not convinced yet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 For a hair more you'd do well to look at a Eureka Mignon Manuale. Try to avoid the Sage, it's quite a poor grinder.


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## Blue_Cafe

Cafesolo said:


> I was going to buy a lelit fred, which was on offer but the offer ended. At the offer price was a good one to the replace down the line.
> 
> I am now thinking what to get to start, i really wanted to keep it under £200, which i know is a bit frowned upon in the forum... i need to experience a lower end before i will spend more.
> 
> Not many options around tbh, thinking of maybe the sage pro, just £200. Not convinced yet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It's only frowned upon because members are happy and able to spend more. If you have a budget, you are bound by it.

Also, often ignored is situation.

Don't be swayed by other opinions. Just listen to them and form your own.

There are those with a budget machine and grinder who are perfectly happy. (Like me)


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## Doram

Cafesolo said:


> I am now thinking what to get to start, i really wanted to keep it under £200, which i know is a bit frowned upon in the forum... i need to experience a lower end before i will spend more.


 You can get an Iberital MC2 - new for £127 (https://www.happydonkey.co.uk/product/iberital-mc2-auto-domestic-coffee-grinder/) or you can get a 2nd hand on the forum, such as a Eureka Mignon.


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## Cafesolo

Blue_Cafe said:


> It's only frowned upon because members are happy and able to spend more. If you have a budget, you are bound by it.
> Also, often ignored is situation.
> Don't be swayed by other opinions. Just listen to them and form your own.
> There are those with a budget machine and grinder who are perfectly happy. (Like me)


Yes there are many points of view, lots of sage owners are okay with those builtin grinders. I presume is the same as the separate grinder from sage. New 200 and they sell easily 2yrs old for 100-120.

But yes not made my mind up yet snd budget and looks are important to me atm.

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## Cafesolo

Doram said:


> You can get an Iberital MC2 - new for £127 (https://www.happydonkey.co.uk/product/iberital-mc2-auto-domestic-coffee-grinder/) or you can get a 2nd hand on the forum, such as a Eureka Mignon.


Thanks thats a good option!

I have been watching the for sale forum too

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## BlackCatCoffee

I am sure you'll be delighted with your new machine.

Some grinders that would fit your budget -

New



Iberital MC2


Fracino Piccino


Ascaso i-mini


Used - lots available but some to look out for



Eureka Mignon


Ascaso i1


Ascaso iSteel


Macap M2D


Compak K3 Touch OD


Mazzer Super Jolly (commercial)


Compak K6 (commercial)


I am not saying they are all amazing grinders but they would suit your budget and get you started for sure.

David


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## Cafesolo

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I am sure you'll be delighted with your new machine.
> Some grinders that would fit your budget -
> New
> 
> Iberital MC2
> Fracino Piccino
> Ascaso i-mini
> Used - lots available but some to look out for
> 
> Eureka Mignon
> Ascaso i1
> Ascaso iSteel
> Macap M2D
> Compak K3 Touch OD
> Mazzer Super Jolly (commercial)
> Compak K6 (commercial)
> I am not saying they are all amazing grinders but they would suit your budget and get you started for sure.
> David


Many thanks David will check those...

I was looking at the happy donkey and noticed the cleaning supplies, is there a list of products i need?

I thought i need a descaler and some detergent for back-flushing and other things.

What do you guys have?

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## Doram

Cafesolo said:


> What do you guys have?


 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Urnex-Cafiza-Espresso-Machine-Cleaning/dp/B001418KNS


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## Blue_Cafe

Cafesolo said:


> Many thanks David will check those...
> 
> I was looking at the happy donkey and noticed the cleaning supplies, is there a list of products i need?
> 
> I thought i need a descaler and some detergent for back-flushing and other things.
> 
> What do you guys have?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Honestly, I see so much just plain bad advice here, it's a question I don't like to see asked.

My advice though: use the manufacturer recommended products unless you are super sure of what you are doing.

The reason for this is because most people are happy to recommend alternatives without understanding how chemicals and materials can interact.


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## Cafesolo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> The longer pipe sucks water from the tank to into the boiler via a pump. The pump delivers approx.15 bar pressure. Therefore, to keep things at 9 or 10 bar, the magic number for espresso, there's an expansion valve between the pump and the boiler. So, when the circuit is primed, anything over 9 bar will force the valve to open and the excess will be diverted back to the tank, carried by the small tube.
> 
> in very gross terms.
> 
> enjoy the machine.
> 
> edit: put something on that warming tray so it doesn't get scratched.
> i put a microfibre cloth. I was toying with rug anti-slip mesh, which is made from polyethylene, melting point between 115 and 135 celcius.
> 
> £2.50 for lots in IKEA.
> https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/p/stopp-anti-slip-underlay-80227877/
> <img alt="image.thumb.jpg.74259664dbfd71115a68350b971c1d65.jpg" data-fileid="44246" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_08/image.thumb.jpg.74259664dbfd71115a68350b971c1d65.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">
> 
> <img alt="image.thumb.jpg.58bf130c909cabfd9254c9ba87e44f8c.jpg" data-fileid="44247" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_08/image.thumb.jpg.58bf130c909cabfd9254c9ba87e44f8c.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Thanks for the tip, yes i was thinking that will get scratched easily. I will get that on my next visit and use something else for now

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## Cafesolo

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I am sure you'll be delighted with your new machine.
> Some grinders that would fit your budget -
> New
> 
> Iberital MC2
> Fracino Piccino
> Ascaso i-mini
> Used - lots available but some to look out for
> 
> Eureka Mignon
> Ascaso i1
> Ascaso iSteel
> Macap M2D
> Compak K3 Touch OD
> Mazzer Super Jolly (commercial)
> Compak K6 (commercial)
> I am not saying they are all amazing grinders but they would suit your budget and get you started for sure.
> David


Looks like the ascaso models are not sold anywhere anymore. I would have been keen when i saw they are from Barcelona (my home town) but just cant find them anywhere new or second hand.

Th Piccino its over the budget from what j can see around £240.

I'll sleep on it but j feel the iberital may just get me started with actual proper ground at home coffee...

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## MediumRoastSteam

Cafesolo said:


> Many thanks David will check those...
> 
> I was looking at the happy donkey and noticed the cleaning supplies, is there a list of products i need?
> 
> I thought i need a descaler and some detergent for back-flushing and other things.
> 
> What do you guys have?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Your machine is an SBDU. So easy to descale if you ever need to. Ideally, best to use water which won't scale, or will take a long time to do so. Waitrose Essentials Lockhills, Tesco Ashbeck or Volvic are favourites as they are low in calcium. Alternatively, consider reverse osmosis and then re-mineralise it.

I use Pully Caf as a detergent for backflushing / soaking.


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## Cafesolo

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Your machine is an SBDU. So easy to descale if you ever need to. Ideally, best to use water which won't scale, or will take a long time to do so. Waitrose Essentials Lockhills, Tesco Ashbeck or Volvic are favourites as they are low in calcium. Alternatively, consider reverse osmosis and then re-mineralise it.
> 
> I use Pully Caf as a detergent for backflushing / soaking.


Many thanks, i started with tesco mineral water. Need to check which one.

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## BlackCatCoffee

@Cafesolo I have the Fracino available which is a rebadged Ascaso iMini. They are 199 delivered.

They are a decent option and well put together however they are quite noisy and a little on the slow side.

David


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## Cafesolo

BlackCatCoffee said:


> @Cafesolo I have the Fracino available which is a rebadged Ascaso iMini. They are 199 delivered.
> They are a decent option and well put together however they are quite noisy and a little on the slow side.
> David


Thanks i will check that out

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## 24774

catpuccino said:


> Hang about I'm as fond of hot takes as the next person but curtly telling someone (presumably awash with excitement at their new purchase) they should have bought a different machine for considerably more money without even going so far as briefly explaining why is about the trendiest and rudest of the habits of this forum. It's tone deaf at best.


 That's the second comment today I've seen from an old member being nasty to a brand new member for no reason other than vindictiveness. Most know what these people are like and so can avoid them if they so wish, but I feel sorry for these poor newbies. Hopefully the help and friendliness of others will encourage them to keep coming back regardless.


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