# Manual versus Automated Pourover



## johnbudding (Dec 2, 2014)

I've been toying with the idea of buying a drip brewer for my morning fix. I tend to start the day with a cup of tea followed by a coffee and then one more for the commute. This tends to mean making two 15-18g V60s. I was thinking of trying to source a Wilfa Precision (or failing that, a Moccamaster/alternative) to brew up a morning batch whilst I'm getting ready so that I can enjoy a cup at home and one more for the road.

My question is, has anyone else done this and what are people's opinions on pourover versus machine drip in the cup. Is the simplicity of automatic worth the trade off of a greater level of control?

Thanks!


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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

James Hoffman uses a drip brewer.

Grinds the night before (shock horror) so coffee available first thing.

I have had similar thoughts but

They are big units, slower than an aeropress or v60 or chemex i would think. Therefore whilst i would like the smell of brewed coffee, it would be slower and more cumbersome route for me. Also i would be the only user in the house.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Speed will depend on your kettle's boil speed. If your kettle takes 4 min to boil, then 3:00-4:00 to brew, it's going to be hard to get 2x V60s in less than 8-10min.

You may have more control pouring manually, but is this the time of day that you want to be concerned with control?

I can't make any comparisons with auto drip brewers because I don't use them (I just have too much brewing gear already & figure I should just use it). This is how I currently brew 1-3 V60s each morning...

"Brewed with @Step21 modified April/PRK V60 02 method, 13.5:210g, 70g poured in quick spirals at 40s intervals, the last 70g poured via a steel can strainer resting in the V60. 53 on the Niche."


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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

i stand corrected on brewing speed compared to v60's - own neither.

for this size i use a chemex.

i understand the auto argument for sure


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

johnbudding said:


> I've been toying with the idea of buying a drip brewer for my morning fix. I tend to start the day with a cup of tea followed by a coffee and then one more for the commute. This tends to mean making two 15-18g V60s. I was thinking of trying to source a Wilfa Precision (or failing that, a Moccamaster/alternative) to brew up a morning batch whilst I'm getting ready so that I can enjoy a cup at home and one more for the road.
> 
> My question is, has anyone else done this and what are people's opinions on pourover versus machine drip in the cup. Is the simplicity of automatic worth the trade off of a greater level of control?
> 
> Thanks!


 The Sage Precision brewer does seem like a good option if you've got the cash to splash.

Another option would be to make a 30-35g brew in a 6-8 chemex and decant this into some kind of thermo-carafe like the one included in the sage precision, but keeping coffee warm for more than 20 minutes is probably a bad idea.


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## Ladycoffeegeek (May 16, 2019)

fatboyslim said:


> Another option would be to make a 30-35g brew in a 6-8 chemex and decant this into some kind of thermo-carafe like the one included in the sage precision, but keeping coffee warm for more than 20 minutes is probably a bad idea.


 Or get a good insulated flask/bottle like Thermos or Contigo. If you pre_warm the container with hot water before pouring your coffee inside, you will avoid thermal shock and if it is a good quality flask, your coffee willl stay at a good temperature for long enough. My better half works on building sites and that's how I make sure he has quality coffee all day long ?


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## CrazyH (Jan 14, 2011)

I haven't really seen genuine many single serving automatic brewers around, unfortunately.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Amazon are discounting the Sage machine a bit also a 2 pack of the new Sage filters. Looks like they have filled a hole in the market.

Personally depending on quantity I might try pouring shots at night for the following day with my espresso machine then adding hot water in the morning. Many leave americano style to cool before drinking to get the taste and at times I have drunk some that have stood for rather a long time. I'd try it rather than assuming it destroys taste. More work than auto drip though.

I drink coffee out of a commercial drip machine regularly. They can make good coffee. This one uses pre ground as well but the entire pack goes in. It takes a while to brew which is probably why the reviewer has been know to use the timer.  The fact that a pack of grinds can work out might give some an idea to try. Wont go into why but my son can influence what packs of grinds are bought and the more recent ones are even better. He's been changing them at times for 12months or so.

John

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## johnbudding (Dec 2, 2014)

Thank you for your comments, everyone.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

I have been pondering the same problem as a present for a friend.

They are limited with time and have even less inclination for pfaffing at 6am! Currently they use instant during the week and pods at weekends. Previous experience with French Press.

Now as I can supply exquisite coffee (!!) I have been looking at simple brew systems. Would the below suit the OP (@johnbudding ) and my pals purpose?

It is moderately priced, seems to be easy and simple enough and has the Lakeland 3 year warranty.

Does any body know what the coffee is like though?

https://www.lakeland.co.uk/61784/Lakeland-Bean-to-Cup-Coffee-Machine-Black


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## johnbudding (Dec 2, 2014)

Interesting option. I was thinking of grinding when I get up (I've got to go down and let the cat out anyway) and leave things running whilst I get ready.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Batian said:


> I have been pondering the same problem as a present for a friend.
> 
> They are limited with time and have even less inclination for pfaffing at 6am! Currently they use instant during the week and pods at weekends. Previous experience with French Press.
> 
> ...


 Is that machine ECBC approved (does it work)? The warranty won't cover poor tasting output.

It strikes me that it could be quite a learning curve for me, let alone someone coming from instant/pods.

Have they tried making a French press before going to bed, decanting & microwaving in the morning?


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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

If the volume is high enough, 600-1litre output, then Moccamaster or Brazen are well regarded options.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Step21 said:


> If the volume is high enough, 600-1litre output, then Moccamaster or Brazen are well regarded options.


 True, but not at 100 quid and a 3 year warranty!

The output should be fine, the (single) person has 1/2 mugs of blank coffee before leaving for work, @ approx 250/270 gm per mug.



MWJB said:


> Is that machine ECBC approved (does it work)? The warranty won't cover poor tasting output.
> 
> It strikes me that it could be quite a learning curve for me, let alone someone coming from instant/pods.
> 
> Have they tried making a French press before going to bed, decanting & microwaving in the morning?


 I will try again. After yet another lengthy post, the mechanics of the forum lost it. I see that still nothing gets better after the buy out.

I am not sure what you mean by ECBC??? If you mean the relevant safety certificates, I do not think Lakeland would be selling any electrical goods that were dodgy. Lakeland have a good reputation for the quality of the products they sell and this is 'own brand'.

The French press is an idea, but it is high on pfaffing and would require a grinder to be purchased. If this unit performs (the part reason for the post) it economically kills two birds.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I suspect that as I have used an espresso machine and have a suitable grinder i would go for the Sage machine if I had the OP's problem as I know that it's likely to have the setting factors I may find I need especially with fresh roasted origin beans. I'd probably grind at night and set the timer as well rather than just accepting that this must give shite results.

John

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## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Batian said:


> True, but not at 100 quid and a 3 year warranty!


 That's a great price for what it offers certainly. But maybe too much for the price to be any good? Who knows until someone tries it. Presumably with Lakeland you can return it if it's no good?

Another option might be the Wilfa?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Batian said:


> True, but not at 100 quid and a 3 year warranty!
> 
> The output should be fine, the (single) person has 1/2 mugs of blank coffee before leaving for work, @ approx 250/270 gm per mug.
> 
> ...


 ECBC test and approve grinders & brewers to ensure they work as intended, like the SCAA do in USA. Moccamaster, Wilfa & Brazen have these accreditations.

A cheap ceramic burr grinder is £60, so £40 for the rest of the machine, seems a bit optimistic?

A DeLonghi KG79 would work OK for the French press. I can't think of a less faff route than pouring hot water on grounds then going to bed 

Pre grind his coffee?


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

MWJB said:


> ECBC test and approve grinders & brewers to ensure they work as intended, like the SCAA do in USA. Moccamaster, Wilfa & Brazen have these accreditations.
> 
> A cheap ceramic burr grinder is £60, so £40 for the rest of the machine, seems a bit optimistic?
> 
> ...


 What? Pre grind my speciality grade coffee!!!!

Sir, Beware the ghost of Kaldi !

Pr ground also rather defeats my object of getting the person of instant and pods (with all the implications) and on to a decent drink in the morning.

I should have also included that kitchen space is extremely limited. I also know the persons limitations. Coffee beans in one hole and water in another and coffee out of the middle is about as much as they can or want to cope with!

I suppose if no forum members have (or know) of the machine I will have to base a decision on Lakelands reputation and the limited customer reviews whose repeated criticism was that the brew was in the theme of 'a bit cold' and 'not hot enough'...........and 'needed micro-waving'!

RE ECBC.

Thanks for the info.

I Googled it and all I got was electricity supply relating to building regulations along with European Covered Bond Council! So I Googled ECBC/coffee/equipment/maker and got stuff on the Energy Conversation Building Code!

So now I feel less guilty about never having heard of it!

Thanks for all your input to the thread.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Batian said:


> What? Pre grind my speciality grade coffee!!!!
> 
> Sir, Beware the ghost of Kaldi !
> 
> Pr ground also rather defeats my object of getting the person of instant and pods (with all the implications) and on to a decent drink in the morning.


 I get that, but we might be looking from a different perspective to that of your friend. Your coffee is speciality grade before & after it is ground. If a brew of preground (maybe just a few days old) speciality isn't any better than a cup of low cost, instant, made from Robusta (it must be because even preground commodity coffee is), are we really offering an alternative, or a hike up in quality?

Think of it like a 'toe in the water'...?

I know of a roaster who was pregrinding drip for markets & found he was still getting good brews up to a week later.

ECBC = European Coffee Brewing Centre, you'll see their little gold stickers about the place

https://ecbc.info/


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Moccamaster/Wilfa still seem to require some intervention for best results (i.e. stirring). I highly recommend the Behmor Brazen, it's £150 (make sure to get the right paper filters though!). Requires a little bit of setup/calibration but then it makes great coffee without any stirring or any other manual intervention.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

johnbudding said:


> Interesting option. I was thinking of grinding when I get up (I've got to go down and let the cat out anyway) and leave things running whilst I get ready.


 What did you go for in the end?

I worked through the same questions and got a moccamaster. We've incorporated it into the morning routine alright and it (thermos) holds the heat quite nicely. You can either go full lazy & just leave it to run, or pause to stir & bloom, before continuing on with everything.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I actually rather like the Oxo goodgrips pourover thing Mark gave me (Thanks Mark), Just tip in the almost boiling water and let it do it's thing.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OXO-Grips-Coffee-Maker-Water/dp/B01ENK41Q6/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=oxo+good+grips+coffee&qid=1582809097&sr=8-6


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> I actually rather like the Oxo goodgrips pourover thing Mark gave me (Thanks Mark), Just tip in the almost boiling water and let it do it's thing.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/OXO-Grips-Coffee-Maker-Water/dp/B01ENK41Q6/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=oxo+good+grips+coffee&qid=1582809097&sr=8-6


 I was going to get this is it good??


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

From a water distribution perspective, I'm not that impressed with the Mocca. You really do need to stir, and maintain a high level of water. The oxo thing would be pretty easy for work too.


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## Hairy_Hogg (Jul 23, 2015)

Jony said:


> I was going to get this is it good??


 Also interested as a travel item it looks like a good idea (hotel kettles are crap)


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Didn't. I prefer V60 I bouhht a clever dripper though


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## Wuyang (Mar 21, 2014)

I've had the brazen and the Technivorm one cup................I like the styling, quality workmanship of the Technivorm.......both do a good drink, the brazen used to leak down the front digital display when doing just one cup......anything by sage makes me wonder about the longevity. Technivorm for me.....I have the orange one.


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