# Newbie with an Oracle Touch



## AirborneConstable (May 15, 2021)

Hi everyone.

First post... go easy on me!

I know the OT has been around a while now but I am interested to know what people's thoughts are on it?

I've had mine a week, I purchased it as I know nothing, although I have learned loads over the past week (theory wise).

I have a few questions, some of it is basic stuff.

The first beans I tried were the Lavazza Blue - Cream e Aroma - I went for cheaper beans whilst I got to grips with how to work the machine. I'll be honest, I'm not confident in my 'tasting' expertise and I never drink espresso's. I always drink high street coffee so I was aiming for 'accepted' variables when pulling the shots.

The Lavazza beans were dialled in at:

Grind 17 - 30s Brew time - 44g out

Infusion was around 8 seconds. The OT manual says infusion should be 8-12 seconds. This gave me a thick crema.

I had a barista mate coming around so I then, in a rush (to try different beans), bought 1kg of the Columbian Costa Beans, from Costa.

I had to switch the grind size right down to 3, run it for 32seconds to get 42g out. The infusion time was around 7 seconds, which seems short to say the OT was almost down to it limits.

Is this normal? It just seems extreme for the 2nd bean I have tried.

So I guess I want to know, if I stick to the 'mainstream' variables as a beginner will I be in the right ball park for a decent espresso to then put in a milk based drink. Ie infusion between 8 and 12 seconds, shot time 20 to 35 seconds. (The OT double shot time defaults to 30 seconds). I am overthinking this as a beginner?

The default heat is 93 degrees.

I only really drink high street coffee (up until now), I have some independent beans on order to try once I get quick at dialling in, but I was wondering what are the differences in taste for the Costa and Lavazza bean? I want to start registering and learning the differences/terms so I have a reference for the different tastes.

Apologies for the long post.

I also have a 1 on 1 course coming up with a local barista who teaches classes but it isn't for a while.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I had a quick look at the manual out of curiosity, I use a Sage DB which is essentially the same machine as far as brewing goes. There is one thing I have to guess as under programming a drink it says follow the instructions. If that allows an infusion time to be set  the following is garbage other than ratios - it will be as you set it.

The machines default as far as I am aware to 7 secs preinfusion. You should hear the sound of the pump change a bit when that has ended. Sage could arrange it to be other times. It can be adjusted on the DB also pump power. If it allows those to be changed I would suggest you stick to defaults.

Sage seem to be trying to relate time to coffee flowing to infusion time. It wont it will depend on the bean and the ratio of grinds in to shot weight out you are after and the extraction time. Just setting the grind finer may not extend the inbuilt 7 secs of infusion and when further reductions do it will alter the flow out with time even more.

The thing to concentrate on is weight grinds in to weight of shot out in say 30sec but you could choose to use other times. Rather a lot to change all at once. Forget over and under extraction and *concentrate on taste*. That's what matters and the ratio needed for your particular bean and your tastes is unlikely to be the same for all beans.

2 is just one ratio. You might find 2.5 or 3 better. Perhaps lower but I would think that is rarer. One Lavazza commercial bean I tried out of curiosity needed a ratio of 4 to come alive. Same range of Lavazza you have bought. They are for hotels and cafe's etc.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Wotcha.

you can't compare beans or grinds; each bag is different but what you will get is the range of what's about right.

The manual that comes with the Touch will guide you - switch to a timed brew and set it to 30 sec. Keep grinding smaller until the first coffee appears at 10-12 sec and weigh the amount of coffee you get out in the 30 sec. you are looking to get *about* 50-60g out in 30 sec assuming that the coffee grind is 22g which is the default setting.

Try the following video


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

Dammit. Wrong link (although a good one to watch)


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## AirborneConstable (May 15, 2021)

Thank you both for the replies, I'm taking it all on board. So is it acceptable/best to aim for slight over a 1:2 ratio - like you say, 22g to 50g?

Last night I dialled in another Lavazza, it was set to grind 17 and I was getting everything within the acceptable limits, so 22g in led to 43g yield. I came back down this morning, got rid of the old grounds and went again. Grind 17 gave me 30g out! I find this really frustrating, but is it normal?

I went up to grind 19 to get to 40g, which I thought tasted ok.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Aim for whatever brew ratio you want, there is no best but it is harder to get a good extraction at 1:2 than 1:3. You also don't need to do it in 30 seconds. There's no reason I'd think 35, 40 or 45 seconds wouldn't result in a good shot.

What is best depends on the beans and what you taste. It's a simple process to dial in when you completely ignore any idea that you should hit specific times or ratios.

The bag you got from Costa might not be fresh. I don't know what Lavazza do to theirs, maybe nitrogen flush the bag or something, or maybe it's just fresher or darker than the Costa.

Empty your portafilter out after the shot and clean/wipe the grouphead. Don't leave a spent puck sitting there in the portafilter locked into the group.

Your timing differences could be down to filling the hopper of the grinder with the Lavazza after dialling in to 17 if you were single dosing as you were dialling in and/or switching between Lavazza and Costa but you haven't mentioned this so it's a guess. If you had run the shot until 43g and tasted the result you would have known whether or not you needed to change the grind setting, you may have been surprised.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> It's a simple process to dial in when you completely ignore any idea that you should hit specific times or ratios.


 There are all sorts of ideas about wonderful ways to obtain wonderful drinks quickly and easily which always work. An unfortunate fact. They often don't.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

@AirborneConstable - the heat up is pretty important. I have mine set (on the timer) to come on about 30 mins before I get up and still run a 10 sec shot of hot water through before I grind.

At this point in time don't worry about old grinds - dump 250g of beans in the hopper and play; the amount of "stale" grinds and the impact is (IMHO) overrated. At the end of the day there is no magic ratio - just coffee that YOU like. If it tastes ok then don't worry about it. Once dialled in, assuming that you don't change the beans then as long as it remains consistent then don't stress it - I've a 250g HasBean subscription so have to dial in each week - the dial never really changes by a couple up or down and the weight out can vary a bit but if it tastes nice then thats all there is to it!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

TobyAnscombe said:


> the heat up is pretty important. I have mine set (on the timer) to come on about 30 mins before I get up and still run a 10 sec shot of hot water through before I grind.


 You must be kidding. That wont achieve anything at all. The machine is ready in 3 mins or less - as soon as it say 93C. If some one wants a hot portafilter fit it and add more mins. Maybe a good idea to taste the difference before always doing that. I found none. A pure espresso shot drinker will want to heat it up or their espresso will be rather cool. People have comment on how long for that. All I have done a couple of time is fitted for 2 min to allow a damp basket to be dried easily.

Running 10 secs of hot water will cool the brew boiler temperature. The idea of the initial flush *through the grouphead* is to make sure the plumbing is full of water and also allow any overheated water in the brews preheat to be discarded. A few seconds is plenty. I just wait for an even water flow. 2 to 5 secs. If the preheat is over temp there will be a short gush of water rather than an even flow. It needs to stand at temperature for several mins for that to happen.

Steam may take a little longer but in some ways that's signs of scale building up on the steam boilers heater.

If water is run off the machine should indicate that the brew is no longer at 93C. Not sure what SOT's do to indicate this but I regularly run off ~270ml and it takes a ~min to get back to 93C.

Actually on a SDB the machine turns itself off after 20min of no use. I'd doubt if other machines are different.


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## TobyAnscombe (Sep 28, 2014)

YMMV - for me and what I have observed with my Touch the warm up and getting temp into the group head and portafilter seems to be a component of getting consistent shots pulled.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The group head is separately heated and forms part of the brew water temperature control.


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