# Hi coffee help :/



## ironcross13

Hi ive been looking at getting a coffee machine i did realise how hard it was to pick one and how much info there is about them

i did think it was easy and strait forward

i was thinking a bean to cup machine but unsure now weather to just get a espresso maker,

how much harder are they to use?

Allso want the best machine for under £500 low as possible really it will just be for home use a few cups a day

im really confused thats how ive ended up on this forum

hope you guys can help


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## Thecatlinux

Hello and welcome , have a look around the forum there is a lot to read and lot of help from other members , as for an espresso machine setup with a £500 budget a gaggia classic and a decent grinder seem to be unanimous decision from other members. And bought wisely they both have a good secondhand resale should you want to upgrade at a later date.


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## The Systemic Kid

Welcome to the forum. Can be confusing when you first start out. Forum is a great place to get your questions answered. First off, budget of £500 is more than enough to get you started. You will need a grinder as well as a machine. If you want to buy new - have a look at the Gaggia Classic and Eureka Mignon grinder. You will also need some jewellers scales (cheap on ebay), a tamper (have a look at Made by Knock), and a milk frothing jug (Cream Supplies or Amazon). If you are prepared to consider used - for sales section of this forum is a great place to pick up well looked after kit. You will save money and if you decide at some point to upgrade, won't lose much if any money.


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## jeebsy

WHat do you drink? Espresso? Milky stuff?


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## EarwaxUK

Without knowing what you drink, it's impossible to say.

It also depends on whether you want to put in the time and effort to learn about coffee or whether you want a simple machine which makes your drinks for you without much user input.


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## ironcross13

Thanks for the replies

i want to try all different types of coffee espresso, latte

how hard is it to learn? I would like to learn

the gaggie classic looks good and is cheap aswell... so is it hard to make coffee manually

that grinder is £320 didt think grinder would be more expensive than the maker


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## Dr Steve

Hi Iron,

Remember the computer maxim "rubbish in->rubbish out"? Well this applies to coffee even more than computers. A great machine with badly ground coffee will produce worse coffee than a cheap machine fed with properly ground beans. The Mignon is actually a pretty cheap grinder believe it or not. Some of the hardened coffee geeks (sorry guys) on the forum have grinders well into 4 figures. If you want a cheaper grinder the Iberital MC2 is worth a look as an alternative.


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## EarwaxUK

Completely agree with Dr Steve - buy the best grinder you can afford. Lots of people start off with a good hand grinder like the Hario Slim which works a treat. The MC2 is the cheapest electric grinder you'll get that's capable of grinding for espresso.

Beans are critical as well - high quality freshly roasted and rested is key. The machine is the least important bit of the whole operation.

As for how hard it is to learn, it's really a question of keep trying. I had some spectacular failures at the beginning but I can make some pretty good coffee these days (if I do say so myself). There's loads of good advice on these forums and a wealth of knowledge and I'd encourage you to go for it. A bean to cup machine might provide some mediocre (at best) coffee for a while but you'll probably want more control pretty quickly.


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## The Systemic Kid

ironcross13 said:


> Thanks for the replies
> 
> i want to try all different types of coffee espresso, latte
> 
> how hard is it to learn? I would like to learn
> 
> the gaggie classic looks good and is cheap aswell... so is it hard to make coffee manually
> 
> that grinder is £320 didt think grinder would be more expensive than the maker


Eureka Mignon is being offered by a forum sponsor - Coffeebean for £265.00 delivered. A good grinder at a great price.


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## ironcross13

Thanks again for the help

So the hario slim is cheap will that work well or do i need a better grinder?

Going to go with the gaiggie classic like the look of it... Just need a grinder

allso whats the best rated beans out there... Can u buy pre ground coffee or is that a bad idear?

cant find coffee bean on google any1 got any links

i dont feel as confused now thanks


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## coffeebean

Here you go! http://www.thecoffeebean-vanandroaster.co.uk/Domestic-Grinders.html


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## The Systemic Kid

Wouldn't want to manually grind for espresso on regular basis. Also, quality of grind isn't going to be on a par with a dedicated espresso grinder. Grab a Mignon - you won't regret it. Steer well clear of pre-ground. Difference between freshly roasted ground beans and packet pre-ground is like night and day. Check out the roaster who advertise on this forum - http://coffeeforums.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?11-Beans

Recommend you try different roasters - they are geared to mail order so no worries there.


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## Mrboots2u

Please don't use pre ground , especially from a supermarket

You will get frustrated and downhearted and struggle to make the drinks you aspire too.


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## EarwaxUK

Agree with the others - If you've got the budget, get a Mignon. The cheaper MC2 is a decent place to start with electric grinders and I wouldn't be without mine.

Same with pre-ground. No good espresso ever came from pre-ground coffee.

For beans, I regularly buy from Hasbean, Union Roasters, Rave Coffee and Londinium Espresso all of which roast fresh and give you the date on which the beans were roasted. Never trust a for which you don't know the roasting date.

The forum also has an excellent list of links for UK based roasters here


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## ironcross13

Is that grinder really worth it? Is there any cheaper ones that are as good?

what els will i need to make coffee

i wont be useing pre ground coffee then

im still drinking instant coffee atm not very nice


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## kikapu

ironcross13 said:


> Is that grinder really worth it? Is there any cheaper ones that are as good?
> 
> what els will i need to make coffee
> 
> i wont be useing pre ground coffee then
> 
> im still drinking instant coffee atm not very nice


Yes that grinder (Mignon) is worth it! Second hand can get them a bit cheaper about £200. There arent any cheaper ones that are as good but there are cheaper ones is the MC2 but is really not that great ugly and noisey about £100 secondhand.

The grinder is more important than the espresso machine for getting great tasting coffee.

Milk jug, tamper, cleaning bits, cups, small scales and you are about there


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## kikapu

ironcross13 said:


> i was thinking a bean to cup machine but unsure now weather to just get a espresso maker,
> 
> how much harder are they to use?


Just seen this in your original post. They are certainly harder to use and will take practice to get really good coffee just something to be aware of.


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## EarwaxUK

What kikapu said...

Yes, grinders are the most important bit. Expect to spend more on a grinder than a machine (at this end of the market).


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## ironcross13

Okay thanks guys been a great help well im gunna go for the gaggia classic with migon

whant great taseing coffee

didt relise it was so much involed in coffee makeing

but i will be able to learn how to use it like can it be that hard?


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## kikapu

ironcross13 said:


> Okay thanks guys been a great help well im gunna go for the gaggia classic with migon
> 
> whant great taseing coffee
> 
> didt relise it was so much involed in coffee makeing
> 
> but i will be able to learn how to use it like can it be that hard?


That is a great combination. Its not hard takes some practice is all but with that equipment you can make much better coffee than all the high street coffee chains

The sub forum for the gaggia has great guide about all you need to know for the classic


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## ironcross13

Thats good then

really looking forward to getting it now

what are the top5 rated beans i want the best?

what cleaning bits do i need?

what a tamper should i get?

Going to order 2 jugs a 600ml and 330ml


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## jeebsy

ironcross13 said:


> Okay thanks guys been a great help well im gunna go for the gaggia classic with migon
> 
> whant great taseing coffee
> 
> didt relise it was so much involed in coffee makeing
> 
> but i will be able to learn how to use it like can it be that hard?


Excellent combo, that's what I started with and you can get some fantastic espresso out it


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## coffeebean

Good choice! You'll get some great coffee from those! Don't forget I can do you a Mignon for £265 delivered (forum price)

Andy


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## Drc

ironcross13 said:


> Okay thanks guys been a great help well im gunna go for the gaggia classic with migon
> 
> whant great taseing coffee
> 
> didt relise it was so much involed in coffee makeing
> 
> but i will be able to learn how to use it like can it be that hard?


My my story might be useful to you, pre January I drank loads of instant and used a French press, had barely had > 5 espressos in my life.

since the I have bought a classic and using this forum started to work out how to make pretty decent coffee and milky drinks. Even crippled with a terrible blade grinder I've managed to have 3 months to learn and make some quite decent espressos and consistently nice milky drinks that are almost always better thanhighstreet drinks.

now my hausgrind has arrived I've made the first couple of good espressos with single origin beans.

so yes, there's lots to learn and you will benefit from some time spent reading up (here) but it's very possible and by no means impossible to be making great drinks in a matter of weeks.

plus without exception the folks here are great and it's the least keyboard warrior inhabited forum I've ever had the pleasure to encounter!


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## kikapu

For the beans just go to Ravecoffee.co.UK read the bean descriptions and buy what you like the sound of you and I would buy a couple of 1kg bags as get free postage.

For the tamper you can just get a Motta one to start but Torrs are really lovely coffeechap on here sells them starting around £40.

You will need a group head brush and some cafiza oh and maybe a brush to clean the grinder. Look at coffeehit.co.UK should have these bits


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## ironcross13

coffeebean said:


> Good choice! You'll get some great coffee from those! Don't forget I can do you a Mignon for £265 delivered (forum price)
> 
> Andy


hi do you have a link ? Thanks



Drc said:


> My my story might be useful to you, pre January I drank loads of instant and used a French press, had barely had > 5 espressos in my life.
> 
> since the I have bought a classic and using this forum started to work out how to make pretty decent coffee and milky drinks. Even crippled with a terrible blade grinder I've managed to have 3 months to learn and make some quite decent espressos and consistently nice milky drinks that are almost always better thanhighstreet drinks.
> 
> now my hausgrind has arrived I've made the first couple of good espressos with single origin beans.
> 
> so yes, there's lots to learn and you will benefit from some time spent reading up (here) but it's very possible and by no means impossible to be making great drinks in a matter of weeks.
> 
> plus without exception the folks here are great and it's the least keyboard warrior inhabited forum I've ever had the pleasure to encounter!


yeh this site has been a really good help didn't no were to start before i come on here im learning step by step

im hopeing to make some nice coffee going to order everything tonight



kikapu said:


> For the beans just go to Ravecoffee.co.UK read the bean descriptions and buy what you like the sound of you and I would buy a couple of 1kg bags as get free postage.
> 
> For the tamper you can just get a Motta one to start but Torrs are really lovely coffeechap on here sells them starting around £40.
> 
> You will need a group head brush and some cafiza oh and maybe a brush to clean the grinder. Look at coffeehit.co.UK should have these bits


okay

Look on that site lots of choice dont no where to start lol

can you bye coffee beans from the supermarket to?

Found this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Motta-Tamper-Curved-Wooden-Handle/dp/B003ICIP8Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396101439&sr=8-1&keywords=Motta+Tamper

Is that the right one


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## ironcross13

Is it worth paying so much for a grinder my friends and family think im mad to pay so much lol


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## The Systemic Kid

Short answer - yes. Grinder is as if not more important than the espresso machine. Better the grinder, the better the grind consistency which means the espresso will be better extracted - more flavour and less bitterness. So tell this to your friends and family


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## ironcross13

Okay just makeing sure... Also is the best place to get the gaggia classic from amazon its £200


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## kikapu

ironcross13 said:


> Okay just makeing sure... Also is the best place to get the gaggia classic from amazon its £200


On amazon go to this link for other sellers http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/ol/B0000C72XS/ref=mw_dp_olp?qid=1396186294&sr=8-1

Find amazon warehouse selling it for 163 these are returns but still have a years warranty


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## The Systemic Kid

Have you considered a used Gaggia Classic? They come up regularly on the forum. Forum member bagged a 10month old one this week for £125.00. Advantage of buying second hand is - if and when you decide to upgrade, you will recoup most of your initial outlay.


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## ironcross13

Think the new one would be better cant see my self up gradeing... Is it worth upgradeing


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## kikapu

ironcross13 said:


> Think the new one would be better cant see my self up gradeing... Is it worth upgradeing


It depends the gaggia can make great coffee but if you wanted to get a noticeable improvement you probably have to spend around 600 as a minimum or 450 maybe secondhand.

Lots of people on here started with the classic but now have machines circa 1000 and that's not just because they like spending money







there is an improvement but not such a big one the price difference suggests


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## Atilla

I've not long seen a couple of Atomics on Ebay going for about £300. Plenty left over for a decent grinder and some nice beans to start you off.


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## ironcross13

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lavazza-Qualita-Rossa-Coffee-Beans/dp/B002PM23YC/ref=sr_1_8?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1396399026&sr=1-8&keywords=Coffee+beans

Are theses beans any good


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## ironcross13

Any recommendations


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## kikapu

kikapu said:


> For the beans just go to Ravecoffee.co.UK read the bean descriptions and buy what you like the sound of you and I would buy a couple of 1kg bags as get free postage.


Already advised you what to do about beans as a starter.

Or go yo beans sub forum and look at roasters there.


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## Mrboots2u

I would try a roaster that can roast fresh. as opposed to buying air packed bulk beans from Amazon Roasted ages ago from lavazza. The difference in taste will make up for the few extra pennies you spend. Italian job from Rave, throwback espresso from small batch, are two tasty classic darker espresso blends that will blow labazza out the cup taste wise and be fresh when you get them.

Also coffee compass do some darker roasts you may enjoy ...


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## kikapu

Mrboots2u said:


> I would try a roaster than can roast fresh. as opposed to buying air packed bulk beans from Amazon to save Pennie s! Roasted ages ago from labazza. The difference in taste will make up for the few extra pennies you spend. Italian job from Rave, throwback espresso from small batch, are two tasty classic darker espresso blends that will blow labazza out the cup taste wise and be fresh when you get them.


Actually Italian job from rave is £9.50 per kg which is £3.50 cheaper per kg than the lavazza!! Absolute bargain


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## ironcross13

Okay thanks its just they had loads of reviews on amazon and was the most popular there so thort id check

thanks for the help

gaggai classic is now £228 its gone up in price is there any hight street stores i can get it from? Or is it worth getting adifferent machine?


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## Mrboots2u

If you are looking at getting Rave order direct as opposed to from Amazon

Direct will be roasted fresh and sent to you .

Few there for you to try ..

There are regular Classics come up for sale on here , might be worth waiting for one of them


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## kikapu

ironcross13 said:


> Okay thanks its just they had loads of reviews on amazon and was the most popular there so thort id check
> 
> thanks for the help
> 
> gaggai classic is now £228 its gone up in price is there any hight street stores i can get it from? Or is it worth getting adifferent machine?


Yeah the thing is the positive reviews are because people havent really tried anything better!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B0000C72XS/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all Is you buy from amazonwhare house on this link at the moment they have one for £182.

I wouldnt buy anything else the often talked about as next best entry level machine is Rancilio Silvia which is around £400 so still a lot more.


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## kikapu

actually if you look in the for sale section forum about a week ago member gaggiamanualservice.com posted he had two for sale £120 plus postage if he has any left pm him as he suggests and could get a real bargain as it also has upgrade steam wand (steams milk better and faster!)


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## ironcross13

Thanks going to get the seconds one from amozon warehouse

i just ordered some beans i posted a thread in the bean section

got quite a lot of different kinds

thanks every 1 for all the help my grinder is on the way and will order the gaggia tomoro


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## ironcross13

Ordered some jugs and a motta tamper 2 le crestent espresso cups to mugs to match

what els will i need? Like cleaning stuff

also i dont no how to make coffee cant find any guides on here can some1 point me in the right direction?


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## Thecatlinux

If anyone else hasn't suggested it buy some scales as this will make setting your grinder up a lot easier.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181168248008&globalID=EBAY-GB


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## Mrboots2u

If you've bought a gaggia have a look at this thread

at the end there are some links for helping you pull a short

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?3858-So-you%92ve-just-bought-your-Gaggia-Classic


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## kikapu

you will need a standard basket (lots of holes) as the gaggia will probably only come with a pressurised one (basically a basket with one hole)

You ordered the grinder yet?


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## ironcross13

Yeh got scales

yeh grinder been ordered as well as gaggia classic

where do i get a standard basket? Whats it used for


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## ironcross13

Just read back thu this thread and thanks i was really clueless befor comeing on here

sorry for the stupid qeustions but i really didt no you needed stuff like fresh beans and a good grinder

got everything now just waiting on my gaggia classic


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## kikapu

Brilliant by the time it arrives the beans will probably be ready/almost ready to use.

No problem we all started in a similar place as you. The reason I stayed with just brewed coffee so long was cause I found all the new terminology and things to learn daunting! !

Good luck once it all arrives and dont be afraid to ask some more questions


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## urbanbumpkin

You'll need a standard basket, I think you can get them on amazon for £5 shipped. Or try coffee hit if your looking at getting some other things, like a tamper which is also a good buy.


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## urbanbumpkin

Cream supplies also do a 58mm Motta tamper which is a good buy for a standard basket .


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## ironcross13

Yeh thanks every one hopeing to make some great coffee

so you gota rest the beans for7 days befo use?

any links for this standard basket on amazon

is this it

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-Pressurised-Crema-Filter-Basket/dp/B007913ANW/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396864595&sr=8-2-fkmr2&keywords=standard+basket+gaggia+classic


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## ironcross13

I have this tamper http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002FBJASA/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Is it okay?


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## Charliej

Yes thats the tamper, but why so hooked on Amazon, a firm called Cream Supplies can sell you exactly the same tamper for half the price along with a nice selection of milk jugs and knock boxes. That basket isn't the one you want this one is the non-pressurised version: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-Stainless-Pressurised-Espresso-Machines/dp/B004ZER1TA/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396865861&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=standard+basket+gaggia+classic


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## urbanbumpkin

Charliej said:


> Yes thats the tamper, but why so hooked on Amazon, a firm called Cream Supplies can sell you exactly the same tamper for half the price along with a nice selection of milk jugs and knock boxes. That basket isn't the one you want this one is the non-pressurised version: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaggia-Stainless-Pressurised-Espresso-Machines/dp/B004ZER1TA/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396865861&sr=8-2-fkmr1&keywords=standard+basket+gaggia+classic


Thats the fella, its the non pressurised one that your after. They're about £5.

The Gaggia comes with the pressurised one as standard, they're no good.


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## ironcross13

Thanks will order

think i am hooked on amazon just easyer

didt no any other sites to get stuff


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## nickmorrisrdg

It looks like you've selected all the equipment. Now the fun begins.

To get started, there is a very good free download guide for how to start making your espressos and to get your heads around the variables which you'll want to control to get good/consistent coffee:

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/pages/free-espresso-training-book


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## Nic

Bean to cup machine? Don't waste your money. You lose all control over the process...

You could spend £5000 on one and still get nothing better than a mediocre coffee.

You've been given good advice already...up to you!


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