# Which water?



## Dr Steve

*What water do you use*​
Ashbeck1223.53%Clearview59.80%Evian11.96%Buxton00.00%Highland Spring00.00%Tap59.80%Britta Filtered815.69%Volvic1121.57%Supermarket Own Brand11.96%In House Filtration System ...815.69%


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## Dr Steve

As coffee has two basic ingredients and beans have already been well discussed I was wondering what sort of water you put in your machines?

Straight mains, filtered mains or bottled? If filtered what sort of filter. If bottled which brand and what should I look for on the label to ensure a good taste and a calcium free boiler?


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## kikapu

As a minimum use Brita filtered water, although its been said you may need to replace them well before they say it needed, seen every couple of weeks mentioned.

In terms of bottled water Volvic is regarded as the best for taste whether this translates into calcium free boiler am unsure.

Tesco ashbeck and Waitrose essential are as well thought of but I found with Ashbeck gave all my shots an underlying sour taste unless it was me doing something else wrong!


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## glevum

Used to use Volvic and Ashbeck, but went back to Brita Maxtra As i got fed up shopping for so much water. Severn Trent water is not to hard, but still descale every 10/12 weeks and notice a difference after doing so.


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## mike 100

I live in a very hard water area and use a kinetico plumbed in scale reduction filter for drinking/coffee machine water, since using it no visible scale! I still de-scale every few months to be sure. As to bottled water Volvic was considered by many to be the best for coffee machines as It contains the "right" balance of minerals etc.


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## glevum

I had the same problem with Ashbeck. Good value thou'


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## Daren

I'm using a plumbed in Brita Purity C300 filter. They are designed for espresso machines. There is a noticeable taste improvement over tap or Brita Maxtra filtered water. I love being plumbed in and not having to constantly refill the reservoir!


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## The Systemic Kid

For brewed coffee, use Ashbeck - £1.16 for five litres from Tesco - much cheaper than Volvic and shares same mineral properties.


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## Charliej

I live in an area with fairly soft water but still use Brita Maxtra filtered water for my Gaggia Classic, although since having the Sage DB I have been relying on it's filters in the water tank. I would suspect that if you are having to buy water to use in your espresso machine, then in the long term it would be worth getting either a water filter inline with it or something for the whole house drinking water supply as in the long term it would save you money.


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## bazschmaz

Tap!

Cue slating... its really soft water here.


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## Soll

I use a Brita jug filter for boiling water in the kettle and now in the Strega, but looking at inside the kettle just now I realised there is still traces of limescale. So I imagine over time the Strega will have limescale build up....


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## CoffeeJohnny

Agreed on Ashbeck it is slightly more acidic but I am converted now it is 23p per litre as opposed to 38p per litre for volvic (27p per litre when on sale) and it saves on packaging too as comes in 5 litre bottles. highland spring is ok in an emergency though.


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## glevum

Soll said:


> I use a Brita jug filter for boiling water in the kettle and now in the Strega, but looking at inside the kettle just now I realised there is still traces of limescale. So I imagine over time the Strega will have limescale build up....


 Essex water Quite hard isn't it?


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## garydyke1

Ashbeck for the espresso machines. Quinton tap (unfiltered) seems to be pretty tasty for brewed (at the moment!)


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## Soll

glevum said:


> Essex water Quite hard isn't it?


Essex water is so hard it's scary ! I'll try Tescoes Ashbeck and see how that goes, seems popular here


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## iroko

I'm using volvic although I'd like to plumb in one day, might give the ashbeck a try.


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## Daren

glevum said:


> Essex water Quite hard isn't it?


Like our women


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## fluffles

Hi,

Has anyone tried BWT filter jugs? Saw this on James Gourmet Coffee and am considering buying one. It talks a good game in terms of being very good for tea/coffee by adding magnesium into the water which is apparently good for bringing out flavour in brewed drinks.

http://www.jamesgourmetcoffee.com/product.php/737/2-7l-long-life-mg2-mineral-water-jug


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## DavidBondy

Soll said:


> Essex water is so hard it's scary ! I'll try Tescoes Ashbeck and see how that goes, seems popular here


I'm also stuck with chalky Essex water here near Sawbridgeworth.

I read (don't remember where) a comparison of a number of bottled waters and Volvic came out as least harmful for machines.

However, I think it's down to the taste so I tried both Tesco's Ashbeck and Volvic. I found that the Volvic seems to taste cleaner as espresso.

So I drink Ashbeck and only use Volvic in my machine. I used to use a Brita Filter Jug but not any more.

David


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## kikapu

DavidBondy said:


> I'm also stuck with chalky Essex water here near Sawbridgeworth.
> 
> I read (don't remember where) a comparison of a number of bottled waters and Volvic came out as least harmful for machines.
> 
> However, I think it's down to the taste so I tried both Tesco's Ashbeck and Volvic. I found that the Volvic seems to taste cleaner as espresso.
> 
> So I drink Ashbeck and only use Volvic in my machine. I used to use a Brita Filter Jug but not any more.
> 
> David


Think londinium did that article or similar and they had some calcs so you could see if your bottled water met the suggest ed criteria


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## CallumT

fluffles said:


> Has anyone tried BWT filter jugs?[/url]


Couple of the baristas at work love them for aeropress and brewed coffee at home. I use the bestmax premium to feed the L1 & Expo along with drinking water, found it have noticably sweeter and more intense mouthfeel in terms of espresso. I would suspect higher %age extraction but I don't intend to buy a refractometer!

Both the guys at work commented on noticeably better brews at home.


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## Charliej

CallumT said:


> Couple of the baristas at work love them for aeropress and brewed coffee at home. I use the bestmax premium to feed the L1 & Expo along with drinking water, found it have noticably sweeter and more intense mouthfeel in terms of espresso. I would suspect higher %age extraction but I don't intend to buy a refractometer!
> 
> Both the guys at work commented on noticeably better brews at home.


I just had a look at the James Gourmet link for the BWT water jugs and it says that the BWT filters will fit Brita jugs, might buy some when my Maxtra filters are done.


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## CallumT

Sounds like a legit plan - or buy some and do a jug of brita , whack it in a decanter then a jug of bwt and decant it off and do two brews same variables.

My TDS meter is at one of the guys who has a bwt jug he's just not geeking out due to exams at the moment but his last is tomorrow.


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## lookseehear

I've been using Ashbeck from Tesco for a good while now for espresso and brewed. I didn't notice a huge difference with espresso but for my v60s I think it makes a big difference in clarity of flavours. It just sucks that I can't use it at work - we have a zip tap but the water doesn't taste great from it.

I'd be tempted by the BWT filters but its probably a similar cost to buying Ashbeck (although I haven't done the maths!).


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## garydyke1

I think Ashbeck is good for being a blank canvas . Handy for home brewing too : )


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## omegabri

Hi..

As I currently have nothing, and simply use tap water I guess I should have a look at buying a BWT or something!

Apart from the taste I presume that filtered water is far better for the machine???

I get scale in the kettle........I don't really want it in my Gaggia Classic!!??


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## t-c

I always use Volvic.


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## ronsil

If your kettle is scaling up, you MUST keep the Classic descaled on a regular basis.

You still should use either soft bottled water or a filter to deal with the scale on a continuing basis.


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## jeebsy

ronsil said:


> If your kettle is scaling up, you MUST keep the Classic descaled on a regular basis.
> 
> You still should use either soft bottled water or a filter to deal with the scale on a continuing basis.


Scaled kettles are repulsive....that was a new experience when I moved down south.


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## CoffeeJohnny

Ashbeck (white background) and volvic. Definitely converted to Ashbeck now


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## DavidBondy

Interesting that I compared Sainsbury's equivalent of Ashbeck to Volvic today. Sainsbury's had 55mg of Calcium against Volvic's 11.5!

I bought more Volvic but I may as well change to Tesco's!

DB


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## CoffeeDoc

I have always used Asbeck as Essex water is full of calcium. Kettle needs descaling ever week or two!

Paul


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## omegabri

I just ordered Gaggia descaling fluid, Urnex Cafiza 2 for back flushing and a Brita filter for the fridge to keep the Gaggia filled with fresh water on a daily basis.









The more I read it realise that a high maintenance practice keeps the espressos tip top!!


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## gcogger

I have fairly hard water here, but stick to mostly using it straight from the tap for brewed coffee. I've found that Brita filtering affects the flavour somewhat (not always for the better IMHO), but I'm stuck with tap water at work, so I find coffees and a brewing technique to work with it.


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## jeebsy

Water supply zoneTotal hardness (various measurements)Fluoride  mgl CaCO3 (ppm)Degrees ClarkeDegrees German(DH)Degrees FrenchDetergent ratingFluoride(ppm)MILE END272.019.0415.23227.2HARD0.1705

Just read a post on the square mile blog which referred to a water checker on the Thames Water site: http://secure.thameswater.co.uk/dynamic/cps/rde/xchg/corp/hs.xsl/899.htm - maybe interesting for anyone in their area, although all it'll probably do is confirm the water is terrible.


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## glevum

After 9 months on Brita Maxtra i thought i would give Ashbeck another go, especially as there is a new Tesco on the way home. There was no sourness that i thought i had noticed before, shots are very smooth. I did a blind test on the whole family & everyone picked out Ashbeck as way better than Brita au naturel.


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## lookseehear

glevum said:


> After 9 months on Brita Maxtra i thought i would give Ashbeck another go, especially as there is a new Tesco on the way home. There was no sourness that i thought i had noticed before, shots are very smooth. I did a blind test on the whole family & everyone picked out Ashbeck as way better than Brita au naturel.


I have heard that Brita are good for softening water at first but the effectiveness drops off very quickly meaning that within a week or so you're no longer removing much of the scale causing minerals. It will continue to make tap water taste better but not great for coffee (as if we need another variable to contend with!).


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## garydyke1

At a quid for 5 litres, you cannot argue with Ashbeck, takes away the stress. and you can ferment mini batches of beer/cider/wine in the empty bottle : )


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## Charliej

I'm conducting a little experiment at the moment, our water is fairly soft, on the test strip that came with my Sage there are 5 bars and the water here was a "2" so probably not too far off being almost ideal, but I've been feeding it with Brita filtered even though there is a filter in it's tank. They last 2 months so I ordered some more which arrived yesterday £12 with free delivery for a years supply. So I'm going to see how that influences the taste, maybe even fire the Classic up on Brita water to see.


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## CoffeeJohnny

garydyke1 said:


> At a quid for 5 litres, you cannot argue with Ashbeck, takes away the stress. and you can ferment mini batches of beer/cider/wine in the empty bottle : )


To be absolutely honest there is now no contest for me. If you have Brita jugs can decant into one and makes for easier pouring. My machine is always full now which is a bonus.


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## silhouetteespresso

Ashbeck really is the best option unless you want to spend upwards of £250 on an inline system. A brita jug is likely to be 300TDS and upwards (depending on water going in) and produces lacklustre results. Recently attended a brew class at Square Mile, using the EK and comparing waters - RO, Ashbeck and tap,obviously RO was the best but Ashbeck also tasted great. That should give you an idea of how well considered Ashbeck is. I've been using it in my S1 and my Bonavita for over a year and not a hint of scale.


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## coffeechap

i am really not sold on RO at all (unless you put back the essential elements to te water) as it makes everything way to bright, definitely prefer filtered water of a 70 tds value.


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## silhouetteespresso

Yup. More and more people thinking the same. Remineralisation is a way off yet. Some interesting new inline systems that are adding magnesium to aid extraction whilst minimising scale. For a fraction of the cost, too.


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## Charliej

silhouetteespresso said:


> Yup. More and more people thinking the same. Remineralisation is a way off yet. Some interesting new inline systems that are adding magnesium to aid extraction whilst minimising scale. For a fraction of the cost, too.


Doesn't that sachet thing that Rocket make and is only about £12 basically add magnesium and other bits into the water?


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## glevum

I wasnt to worried about the scale factor as i descale every 10 weeks. I will never go back to brita again after ashbeck. Cant beleive the difference at the moment. Fantastic shots.


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## Charliej

Well with our relatively soft water I'm going to give the Sage a try just on its own filters, seems to taste better so far than with Brita filtered and its internal filter, and been no sign of scale as yet anywhere I can see.


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## Soll

http://www.lifeionizers.co.uk/products/filters/hardwater-reduction.html

Anyone had dealings with this company ? I've started looking at a filter system to tackle the problem of limescale!


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## CoffeeJohnny

Can't delete this was trying to link the post sorry


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## jeebsy

Any Jocks confirm it's OK just to use tap? Hadn't ever seen a scaled kettle til I moved down south....


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## michaelg

With my classic I used either tap or Brita filtered (and probably didn't change the filter often enough) and never had any problems at all in about 8 years. Never had scale in a kettle yet and same as Jeebsy didn't see scale in a kettle til my one year in Sunny Stevenage. I now use Brita filtered as a precaution but reckon mains Scottish would be fine too.


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## frasermade

Scotland - Inventors of the Modern World. You are welcome.

If everyone starts finding out about Ashbeck and Tesco sees sales go up and up, it won't be long before Ashbeck is the new San Pelligrino.

pH strips are on their way.


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## urbanbumpkin

frasermade said:


> Scotland - Inventors of the Modern World. You are welcome.


Battered Mars bars and the Krankies.


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## frasermade

Not some of our finer moments, granted....


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## Charliej

Clive don't forget the deep fried pizzas as well, and Tennants Super


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## frasermade

It's true that in some parts of our glorious country the deep fried technique is a standard operating procedure for most food based consumption, however in other, less populated areas, we favour the finer elements of Scottish cuisine...

Deep fried Venison is my particular favourite, for example.


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## CoffeeJohnny

Haha deep fried haggis in duns was glorious. The best I've eaten in all honesty


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## Geordie Boy

I've started giving Aqua Pura a go. It works out at 24p/l from Tescos


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## Charliej

A 6 pack of 2 litre bottles of Tesco Ashbeck water, which is even better works out at 18.3p per litre


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## Geordie Boy

I never worked out why the 2l multi pack of Ashbeck is cheaper by the litre than 5l bottles. It really makes buying the 5l bottles pointless IMO


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## Charliej

Geordie Boy said:


> I never worked out why the 2l multi pack of Ashbeck is cheaper by the litre than 5l bottles. It really makes buying the 5l bottles pointless IMO


Yeah and the 2 litre bottles are far easier to pour into the front fill flap of the Sage as well, and into the kettle for brewed.


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## kj-88

Hi, just want to say thanks for all of this info, having just upgraded from a classic to a brewtus, I have always used a Brita, but it seems that Ashbeck will improve things and help with machine / scaling. Very useful info, cheers!


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## James811

I'm just usmg a French press for now. I'm going to use filtered tap wter for this as it will be better tasting and I don't have to worry about limescale etc and slightly cheaper than bottled. If I get a machine (when) (coughs) haha I'll use bottled


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## Alejandro

This year's UKBC winner, Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood, gives a great talk on water at http://www.tampertantrum.com/maxwell-colonna-dashwood-tamper-tantrum-birmingham-2014/


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## MWJB

James811 said:


> I'm just usmg a French press for now. I'm going to use filtered tap wter for this as it will be better tasting and I don't have to worry about limescale etc and slightly cheaper than bottled. If I get a machine (when) (coughs) haha I'll use bottled


I'd say it's still worth trying out some mineral water, maybe try a couple of side by side French presses or cuppings and see how they compare to your tap water? The differences in water don't simply relate to scale. You may not find a big difference, but then you never know until you try?


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## 7493

glevum said:


> I wasnt to worried about the scale factor as i descale every 10 weeks. I will never go back to brita again after ashbeck. Cant beleive the difference at the moment. Fantastic shots.


Thanks for the tip. Ashbeck here I come...


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## Mrboots2u

Clear view from tesco ain't bad either . Super cheap 25p for 2'litres


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## Big O

+1 on clearview after recommended on here and can't go wrong with it at that price.


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## 7493

Thanks guys! Been using Brita filtered, will now try Ashbeck etc.


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## Xpenno

Brita filtered will depend heavily on what's in your water to start with. They will generally only remove the parts of the water that make it taste and smell bad.

To achieve a good extraction you need some minerals to do with work. After reviewing the water report for my postcode its clear why Brita does nothing for me as there is literally no calcium or magnesium there at all.

I'm currently using 50/50 volvic/Clearview and then running it through a bwt mg2+ filter cartridge that fits in my Brita jug. I've tested the water again and it still has under half the mineral content desirable for espresso.

It's an interesting topic for sure


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## Geordie Boy

I'm sure I've heard that some coffee shops will sell their water as well


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## Xpenno

Geordie Boy said:


> I'm sure I've heard that some coffee shops will sell their water as well


Probably. If you test you tap water and seek pro advice then in the grand scheme of coffee it doesn't actually cost that much to put it right.


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## Geordie Boy

One thing I've always wondered though with big boiler espresso machines is whether re-boiling water (I.e. when machines are cycled on-off-on) affects the taste just as much, as I know people who can taste when water has been reboiled

To add, this is probably less of an issue with HX type machines that take the brew water from the inlet tank, unlike DB machines


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## Xpenno

It's interesting it may be different as the boiler it pretty much a sealed unit for most of the time so the gasses that boil off in a kettle or such would not necessarily go anywhere and may dissolve back into the water during cooling. I have no real idea what else changes when you boil water and the difference to re-boiling.


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## jeebsy

Xpenno said:


> Brita filtered will depend heavily on what's in your water to start with. They will generally only remove the parts of the water that make it taste and smell bad.
> 
> To achieve a good extraction you need some minerals to do with work. After reviewing the water report for my postcode its clear why Brita does nothing for me as there is literally no calcium or magnesium there at all.
> 
> I'm currently using 50/50 volvic/Clearview and then running it through a bwt mg2+ filter cartridge that fits in my Brita jug. I've tested the water again and it still has under half the mineral content desirable for espresso.
> 
> It's an interesting topic for sure


Can you decode this? http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/~/media/water%20quality/data/61/201403/water%20201304%20milngavie%20m4c%20last%2012%20months.pdf


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## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> Can you decode this? http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/~/media/water%20quality/data/61/201403/water%20201304%20milngavie%20m4c%20last%2012%20months.pdf


Doesnt tell you the important stuff


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## jeebsy

What is it you need to know?


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## Xpenno

You need total hardness and German hardness. Think it bicarbonate levels and levels of calcium and magnesium.


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## garydyke1

Would be nice to see

Calcium - 50

Magnesium - 50

Bicarbonates - 75

PH - 7

Reality bottled

Calcium - 15

Magnesium - 5

Bicarbonates - 50

PH 6.3-6.5

Or worse, tap

Calcium - 2 (depending when it last rained in Wales)

Magnesium - having a laugh aint ya

Bicarbonates - 900

PH - irrelevant , have you seen the chlorine content? seesh!


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## jeebsy

Dear William Heenan,



> Thank you for your email.
> 
> Please see below* information that we have been provided from our Public Health Team.
> 
> 1. Calcium - 6 mg/l
> 
> 2. Calcium Carbonate - 14.31 mg/l
> 
> 3. The water is classified as soft
> 
> 4. pH range - 6.5 to 9.5.
> 
> 5. Magnesium - we not measure this parameter.


Top marks for speed of response bit ph range seems a bit wild?


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## coldplayer

Well, it looks like science has answered this question for us.

All you guys buying bottled water and using filters are wasting your money. Essex has the best water for making the finest tasting coffee....... and we get it from our taps!!

Now there is a surprise.

http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/secret-to-perfect-coffee-revealed-11363908431614

Perhaps we could bottle it..... Anyone want to buy some Chelmsford Spring?.............lol


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## The Systemic Kid

But what about the chlorine - doesn't exactly enhance coffee flavour!


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## coldplayer

The Systemic Kid said:


> But what about the chlorine - doesn't exactly enhance coffee flavour!


Probably not, but we all have lovely teeth


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## Xpenno

coldplayer said:


> Probably not, but we all have lovely teeth


Not sure chlorine is good for your teeth, is it?


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## The Systemic Kid

coldplayer said:


> Probably not, but we all have lovely teeth


No, that's the fluoride which I forget to mention!


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## Xpenno

The Systemic Kid said:


> No, that's the fluoride which I forget to mention!


Pretty sure fluoride dissolves your teeth as well...


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## Charliej

coldplayer said:


> Well, it looks like science has answered this question for us.
> 
> All you guys buying bottled water and using filters are wasting your money. Essex has the best water for making the finest tasting coffee....... and we get it from our taps!!
> 
> Now there is a surprise.
> 
> http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/secret-to-perfect-coffee-revealed-11363908431614
> 
> Perhaps we could bottle it..... Anyone want to buy some Chelmsford Spring?.............lol


I'm not sure how you get from that article to Essex has the best water, it says reasonably hard with the correct composition, not solid when it comes from the tap like in Essex.


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## Xpenno

Xpenno said:


> Pretty sure fluoride dissolves your teeth as well...


And your brain...


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## The Systemic Kid

Xpenno said:


> Pretty sure fluoride dissolves your teeth as well...


What, like this??

View attachment 7451


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## froggystyle

The Systemic Kid said:


> What, like this??
> 
> View attachment 7451


Where did you get a photo of my dad from?

Can we put a vote on this thread, be interested to see what the most used supermarket water is ??


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## Mrboots2u

froggystyle said:


> Where did you get a photo of my dad from?
> 
> Can we put a vote on this thread, be interested to see what the most used supermarket water is ??


Yep can do that

What would be the choices ?


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## The Systemic Kid

froggystyle said:


> Where did you get a photo of my dad from?


Actually, it's my Facebook profile pic


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## froggystyle

The usual i guess, Tesco Ashbeck, volvic, buxton, highland spring, evian, asdas own, sainsburys own, morrisons own...

Guess people can ask for more to be added if they know of any?


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## froggystyle

The Systemic Kid said:


> Actually, it's my Facebook profile pic


Dad???

13 char


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## Xpenno

froggystyle said:


> The usual i guess, Tesco Ashbeck, volvic, buxton, highland spring, evian, asdas own, sainsburys own, morrisons own...
> 
> Guess people can ask for more to be added if they know of any?


Tap water?

13char


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## froggystyle

filtered tap water also then!


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## Scotford

I have not long moved house, having been anal in my search for a new place with filtered water. So filtered tap for me.


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## Mrboots2u

Poll added

can only have a maximum of 10 options ...


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## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> Not sure chlorine is good for your teeth, is it?


Depends if you want a mouth like a public swimming pool?!


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## garydyke1

Xpenno said:


> And your brain...


I saw that brum tapwater had colonies of E-coli >1 after 22 hours at room temp.

So what about water sitting in a warm espresso machine all day , all week.....


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## The Systemic Kid

garydyke1 said:


> I saw that brum tapwater had colonies of E-coli >1 after 22 hours at room temp.
> 
> So what about water sitting in a warm espresso machine all day , all week.....


Increased mouthfeel!


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## Hoffmonkey

I whacked my postcode into the Bristol Water website...

http://www.bristolwater.co.uk/downloads/WSZ_416.pdf



Code:


Water Supply Zone     Thornbury, Shirehampton, Pill and Portishead (416)


Source / Supply                Description    Your water supply comes from surfaces waters (rivers)
Hardness                    Your drinking water supply is classed as hard.
Calcium mg/l Ca                94
Magnesium mg/ Mg            9.0
Total Hardness mg/l CaCO3    271
UK Degrees Clark (°C)        19
Degrees French (°f)            27
Degrees German (°dH)        15
Fluoride                    Bristol Water does not add - and currently has no plans to add - fluoride to the water it supplies. The water we supply does contain a small amount of fluoride that occurs naturally in the source waters we use.
Fluoride mg/l                0.10


Parameter                Average Value    Drinking water quality standards    Units
Alkalinity mg/l CaCO3    186                No legal limit applies                mg/l CaCO3
Alkalinity mg/l HCO3    227                No legal limit applies                mg/l HCO3
Chloride mg/l            51.8            250                                    mg/l Cl
Nitrate mg/l NO3        20.3            50                                    mg/l NO3
Phosphate mg/l P        1.4                No legal limit applies                mg/l P
Sodium mg/l                32                200                                    mg/l Na
Sulphate mg/l            95                250                                    mg/l SO4
Conductivity µS/cm        614                2500                                µS/cm @20°C
pH                         7.35            6.5 to 9.5                            pH value


Comments     During the report period, all tests carried out on samples collected in this Water Supply Zone met all the legal limits specified in the current Water Supply (Water Quality) Regulations.

I'm using Brita filters. Do we reckon I might get better if I was to buy some cheap bottled water? I'll go and get a bottle from Lidl and see how the numbers stack up...


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## sambinstead

Best filtration for coffee, hands down, is the BWT bestmax. Magnesium is king.


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## Hoffmonkey

OK, I went out and bought like 12 Brita Maxtra cartridges a while back, but now I'm thinking I might go and grab some BWT ones. If I do, I'll do a back to back test to see if I can tell the difference in taste...


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## centaursailing

Inspired by Hoffmonkey's water analysis, I've had a look at the tap water we get in the North-East and it has fluoride added. Does anyone know if something like a Brita filter would be of benefit in this case?


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## The Systemic Kid

Brita filters don't remove fluoride. Interestingly, it is touted that Brita filters remove chlorine but this isn't quite correct. The website says it 'reduces' the presence of chlorine rather than removing it.


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## Xpenno

sambinstead said:


> Best filtration for coffee, hands down, is the BWT bestmax. Magnesium is king.


Depends massively on your incoming water supply. I agree that BWT make some amazing filters for coffee but they have a bunch of products for a reason. The Bestmax cartridge introduces magnesium by exchanging it for calcium, if you don't have any calcium then you will still not have any magnesium (or calcium) at the end of the process. Having said that, if you are in an area that does have high calcium levels then this seems to be the one to go for.


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## Hoffmonkey

Brita filters most definitely remove all traces of any "swimming pool" smell. Straight out of the tap, my water smells really strongly of chlorine. Once filtered, that taste completely disappears. I'm interested to find out how much difference there is in the taste of the BWT filters which add some magnesium back in...


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## Hoffmonkey

So what would the "ideal" level of magnesium be? I've seen my magnesium level is at 9 and my calcium is at 94...


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## Xpenno

Hoffmonkey said:


> I whacked my postcode into the Bristol Water website...
> 
> http://www.bristolwater.co.uk/downloads/WSZ_416.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Water Supply Zone     Thornbury, Shirehampton, Pill and Portishead (416)
> 
> 
> Source / Supply                Description    Your water supply comes from surfaces waters (rivers)
> Hardness                    Your drinking water supply is classed as hard.
> Calcium mg/l Ca                94
> Magnesium mg/ Mg            9.0
> Total Hardness mg/l CaCO3    271
> UK Degrees Clark (°C)        19
> Degrees French (°f)            27
> Degrees German (°dH)        15
> Fluoride                    Bristol Water does not add - and currently has no plans to add - fluoride to the water it supplies. The water we supply does contain a small amount of fluoride that occurs naturally in the source waters we use.
> Fluoride mg/l                0.10
> 
> 
> Parameter                Average Value    Drinking water quality standards    Units
> Alkalinity mg/l CaCO3    186                No legal limit applies                mg/l CaCO3
> Alkalinity mg/l HCO3    227                No legal limit applies                mg/l HCO3
> Chloride mg/l            51.8            250                                    mg/l Cl
> Nitrate mg/l NO3        20.3            50                                    mg/l NO3
> Phosphate mg/l P        1.4                No legal limit applies                mg/l P
> Sodium mg/l                32                200                                    mg/l Na
> Sulphate mg/l            95                250                                    mg/l SO4
> Conductivity µS/cm        614                2500                                µS/cm @20°C
> pH                         7.35            6.5 to 9.5                            pH value
> 
> 
> Comments     During the report period, all tests carried out on samples collected in this Water Supply Zone met all the legal limits specified in the current Water Supply (Water Quality) Regulations.
> 
> I'm using Brita filters. Do we reckon I might get better if I was to buy some cheap bottled water? I'll go and get a bottle from Lidl and see how the numbers stack up...


Sounds like you have a high CaCO3 level which I believe is a primary cause of scale build up so you need to beware of that (most filter systems won't remove that). The calcium levels are good so you might want to pick up a BWT Mg2+ filter cartridge which fits into a Brita Maxtra filter jug. This should replace some of the calcium with magnesium and you should end up with a good base. The TH might be a little on the high side and might buffer the effect of the Ca/Mg in the water resulting in a bland taste.

There is an offer (which I used) for a 'free' trial of the Mg2+ here, you have to pay for delivery but it's pretty reasonable if you want to give it a go with low risk.

http://www.filterjug.co.uk/offer.html


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## Milanski

On Stephen Jenner's recommendation, I installed a Pozzani RO system making the water pretty much 0TDS.

It then passes through the 'SJ special' remineralisation filter (developed for coffee together with the boffins at Pozzani) which is 50% calcium, 50% magnesium. I have no idea how to measure the bicarbonate levels (if there are any after the RO process).

My coffee tastes great (mostly - when there is no barista error).

I'm not sure of the pH levels as I'm still waiting for my litmus paper to arrive.

To drink straight, the water is a little weird. I have a 'polishing' filter I'm supposed to put in-line but the coffee is so good I fear it may affect the taste. I have yet to compare with and without polisher.

I add half a teaspoon of sole (so-lay) to straight water to drink and it tastes great.

...just curious about the pH.


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## Xpenno

Milanski said:


> On Stephen Jenner's recommendation, I installed a Pozzani RO system making the water pretty much 0TDS.
> 
> It then passes through the 'SJ special' remineralisation filter (developed for coffee together with the boffins at Pozzani) which is 50% calcium, 50% magnesium. I have no idea how to measure the bicarbonate levels (if there are any after the RO process).
> 
> My coffee tastes great (mostly - when there is no barista error).
> 
> I'm not sure of the pH levels as I'm still waiting for my litmus paper to arrive.
> 
> To drink straight, the water is a little weird. I have a 'polishing' filter I'm supposed to put in-line but the coffee is so good I fear it may affect the taste. I have yet to compare with and without polisher.
> 
> I add half a teaspoon of sole (so-lay) to straight water to drink and it tastes great.
> 
> ...just curious about the pH.


Hi Milanski,

this option is currently in my list. I've spoken to the guys at Pozzani and they've been very helpful. Just out of interest, what is the TDS of your water post re-mineralisation?

Cheers

Spence


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## Milanski

It currently stands at about 26TDS without the 'polisher'.

I'm not sure if TDS eqates at all with pH but I'm a little concerned my water may be slightly acidic, though maybe someone can tell me if the calcium/magnesium remineralisation will rebalanace that?


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## coldplayer

I hadn't really given too much thought about the quality of the water I use and how it would effect taste...... until now, thanks to this thread. I had given some thought to the many other factors that affect the taste of my coffee, but never the water I use. I had only considered the hardness of the water in regard to scale in my coffee maker. Maybe I too, will have to do a taste test with different bottled waters. Though I am not sure I could get the level of consistency needed, for multiple extractions, with my Isomac. I will give it a try anyway...


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## Xpenno

Milanski said:


> It currently stands at about 26TDS without the 'polisher'.
> 
> I'm not sure if TDS eqates at all with pH but I'm a little concerned my water may be slightly acidic, though maybe someone can tell me if the calcium/magnesium remineralisation will rebalanace that?


26 sounds very low, if that is correct then you are not getting anything more than you'd get from clearview or volvic etc..


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## Milanski

Yeah i thought that also but it def tastes better than Volvic, which is what I used before I got the system installed.

At least I know that it's all calcium and magnesium and perhaps the polishing cartridge is therefore also essential.

I'll install it over the weekend and report back...


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## Charliej

While we're on the subject of water does anyone know exactly what the filter bag thing that Rocket make actually does for the water? I'm wondering if one would actually help with some remineralisation when using bottled water.

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/barista-tools-accessories/cleaning-and-filtration/water-filters-softeners/rocket-espresso-water-reservoir-filter.html


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## Xpenno

Charliej said:


> While we're on the subject of water does anyone know exactly what the filter bag thing that Rocket make actually does for the water? I'm wondering if one would actually help with some remineralisation when using bottled water.
> 
> http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/barista-tools-accessories/cleaning-and-filtration/water-filters-softeners/rocket-espresso-water-reservoir-filter.html


I think that is a filter like Brita that removes chlorine and makes the water odorless. Although it's hinted at I've not seen any information to confirm it actually adds any minerals to the water.


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## Hoffmonkey

Xpenno said:


> Sounds like you have a high CaCO3 level which I believe is a primary cause of scale build up so you need to beware of that (most filter systems won't remove that). The calcium levels are good so you might want to pick up a BWT Mg2+ filter cartridge which fits into a Brita Maxtra filter jug. This should replace some of the calcium with magnesium and you should end up with a good base. The TH might be a little on the high side and might buffer the effect of the Ca/Mg in the water resulting in a bland taste.
> 
> There is an offer (which I used) for a 'free' trial of the Mg2+ here, you have to pay for delivery but it's pretty reasonable if you want to give it a go with low risk.
> 
> http://www.filterjug.co.uk/offer.html


Wicked, thanks very much. I've gone ahead and ordered a load from Amazon. The free offer thing is great but I wanted another jug so I can keep one next to the kettle. I've actually got two Gaggia Classics so I will do some back to back testing with Britta Maxtra filtered water in one and the BWT filtered water in the other. Obviously I'll need to check I get a "same tasting" shot between the two with the same water in first - gonna get my geek on!


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## centaursailing

The Systemic Kid said:


> Brita filters don't remove fluoride. Interestingly, it is touted that Brita filters remove chlorine but this isn't quite correct. The website says it 'reduces' the presence of chlorine rather than removing it.


I'm in a really soft water area so scaling is minimal I just do a descale every year or so to be sure. With regard to the smell of chlorine, my machine isn't plumbed in so I use the tank and can't detect the chlorine smell from it as I can from water straight from the tap.

This thread has really set me thinking, I'll try some bottled water to see if it makes any difference.


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## Milanski

Litmus paper arrived today and I'm getting a neutral reading of 7, so happy about that.


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## froggystyle

Ashbeck leading so far....


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## motd2k

I use a tap which has an RO/DI unit built in.


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## chinery

Waitrose Essential not on the poll... that's what Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood recommends in his article on water in the London Coffee Guide 2014. Although he's said many times that no bottled water is ideal. These BWT filters look mighty interesting, will have to check them out...


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## fluffles

I've just had a great result with Waitrose Essential filtered through BWT MG2+ filter. Previously this coffee was showing an acidity without a strong flavour attached to it, whereas now it definitely tastes like a red fruit-like acidity. Much more pleasant!


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## CallumT

BWT Bestmax Premium for the L1 ; Found this a step above the small brita filter I was previously using. Ashbeck, or water pulled from the filter for brewed coffee although I need to got to Waitrose? to try this Clearview that GaryDyke1  recommends over Ashbeck.

Had some of my fave's shots on a L1 fed with Ashbeck combined with a Royal.

Also the own brand supermarket water is simply bottled up filtered mains water.


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## mym

CallumT said:


> Also the own brand supermarket water is simply bottled up filtered mains water.


The Waitrose isn't, it's Stretton water from South Shropshire. I'm finding it very good (annoying that the Expobar "wastes" at least 50% of it though).


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## CallumT

Waste through flushing or OPV?


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## Phil104

chinery said:


> Waitrose Essential not on the poll... that's what Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood recommends in his article on water in the London Coffee Guide 2014. Although he's said many times that no bottled water is ideal. These BWT filters look mighty interesting, will have to check them out...


 Thanks for this - must be cheaper than Volvic and help me continue to avoid Tescos


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## Charliej

CallumT said:


> BWT Bestmax Premium for the L1 ; Found this a step above the small brita filter I was previously using. Ashbeck, or water pulled from the filter for brewed coffee although I need to got to Waitrose? to try this Clearview that GaryDyke1  recommends over Ashbeck.
> 
> Had some of my fave's shots on a L1 fed with Ashbeck combined with a Royal.
> 
> Also the own brand supermarket water is simply bottled up filtered mains water.


Clearview is from Tesco and like Ashbeck is one of their cheaper end own brands, both are not mains water. I think that maybe if you go for the bargain basement"basic" bottled water at any supermarket that will simply be mains water either filtered or unfiltered.


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## fluffles

Noticed the mineral water in Wilko's today and took a look at the label. It had something like 9g magnesium and calcium (combined) and about 11g bicarbonate. Might give it a go as although the mag/calc is relatively low, it is very close the bicarb level (far closer than waitrose for example). Maxwell said that the ideal values is to have twice as much mag/calc to bicarb, so this is actually the closest I've seen to that.


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