# New (to me) Cherub owner! Hello (and some really basic questions)



## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

Hi all.

Just purchased a Cherub from DripDrop on the forum, paired with a Sage Smart Grinder I've owned for a long time.

It's been ages since I have owned an espresso machine, having dialed the grinder in for aeropress/V60 for the last couple of years at least. I used to own a Gaggia Classic and could never get consistency in milk or espresso, so here's hoping there's some improvement!

A few really basic questions:

* I'm looking at getting hold of some descaler and cleaner. Back when I owned the Classic it seemed Puly Baby was the descaler of choice - still the case? How about cleaner?

* Is there a "beginner method" for getting consistent coffee/milk from the Fracino HX machines? Time to allow warm-up, pre-flush, etc.?

* Tips on how to dial in my grinder for the machine?

* Anything to watch out for maintenance-wise that I might not have thought of?

* We have a Brita tap filter - will this be sufficient or should I consider further filtration? I see that Fracino sell a filter unit, that might fit in the tank (I think this is a 2013/2014 model) - worth it? They seem pretty expensive...

Thanks in advance!


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## lhavelund (Dec 28, 2018)

I was eyeing that sales thread -- no advice to offer, but hope you enjoy the machine!


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## qpop (Jan 4, 2015)

Ok, I have my first question/issue!

I've put a few espressos through this machine so far with no problems. This morning i made my first, no problem.

18g coffee, 35 seconds, 36g out.

I waited a few minutes with the boiler on then tried a second.

First of all, water leaked from the group head so I switched off the machine. I resecured the portafilter and tried again, and the machine choked.

I tried with 2 fresh batches of coffee and the machine choked each time

I made the grinder coarser and the machine still choked. I then spun the steam wand out of desperation and when I started the pump again the coffee came through

Can anyone explain what happened here and possibly give me a best practice type approach to these Fracino HX machines in terms of process?

Thanks !


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## GerryM (Feb 6, 2016)

Could you post a video with sound doesn't need to be a Spielberg production shot on a phone should do the job, there are some very knowledgeable people here and seeing/heairng what's happening may enable them to chip in with some more accurate diagnosis/solutions.

There's a guide to decaling an HX machine here on another site https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-equipment-pointy-end-1500-3000/29289-how-descale-hx-machine-properly.html, i've not searched the forum but i'm sure there will also be guidance here too.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

To descale an HX, this is what I would do, but please have it confirmed by someone else first!

switch machine on, come to boiler temp

empty water from boiler and water tap

fill water reservoir to halfway and add descale solution (I use citric acid personally) then draw water through both and seam arm. Run some onto your finger and it will feel silky

leave it for 20 mins to half an hour.

draw some water out of group and see how mucky it is. you might need to draw the water out of the boiler and replace with more civic acid

leave another 20

wash out the water container thoroughly and fill

draw fresh water through the group. you might need 10 litres or so but taste the water after say 4 or 5. if you cannot detect the citric acid, it will be ok

draw water through the steam

then you are basically there


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There may be an alternative way to descale. This is similar to how Sage DB's could be done before they fitted drain valves also if a machine has the valve error.

The parts list for all machines can be downloaded from Fracino's site. I probably need to do a little Gem, in this case there is a blanking plug but something else could be unscrewed. Remove, syphon the water out, fill with a descaling solution, heat up - personally I wouldn't let it heat up to steam temperature. Leave for at least 20min, maybe reheating again. Syphon out the descale solution, get water in, syphon out and etc. Then to be sure run a tank full of water through the machine.

They seem to be fond of using 1/4 bsp for fittings so a funnel and pipe suitable for a 10mm hole should fit. Less may be better to allow air in and out but the "hole" is likely to be over 11mm. The thread diameter is larger.

There may be some sort of seal under what ever is unscrewed. On the Gem they use copper washers unless they have changed from the parts list. Those should be reusable.








*Maybe* @DavecUK can comment. One concern for me is fill level.

John

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