# Barista Touch Extraction Help



## Properus (Dec 10, 2020)

Hey all, I'm having some issues getting drinkable shots out of my Barista Touch. I've had it for about 5 months and haven't been able to get much out of it. I've acquired some scales, distribution tool and a bottomless port... my shots aren't channeling anymore which is great, but still taste pretty grim.

My shots are coming out in reasonable time (27 seconds, 17 in and 35 out) and I've gone up and down in terms of dose and it still comes out tasting pretty poor. I'm unsure if it's 'bitter' or 'sour' but I believe it leans more towards the sour side. I'm using a local dark roast.

What am I doing wrong? Could it be the machine, I was lurking on here before and saw theres potentially temperature issues with my model but I'm not versed enough in Espresso to know to be honest! Any advice is appreciated!

Cheers


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

With all the sage thermo blocks/jets my first port of call would be brew temp.

Have you had chance to read the preheat threads on here - is a good idea.

They need a good warm up and brew temp is related to flow rate on the thermojets- not sure if the barista touch is as sensitive here as it uses the older thermoblock I believe

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## N0rmanski (Oct 15, 2020)

For temperature stability on my Barista Express, I always run at least one shot through the system to heat it up (including portafilter and basket) if it's been on for 20 minutes, or I run 2 shots if it's been on for less time. Then dry the basket and portafilter before filling with coffee.

Have you tried other coffees? I went through a phase of hating everything before I realised I didn't like the coffees I was using.

I'm not sure if this will help in your instance, but I tend to use 19g in using a Barista Express.


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## Properus (Dec 10, 2020)

kennyboy993 said:


> With all the sage thermo blocks/jets my first port of call would be brew temp.
> 
> Have you had chance to read the preheat threads on here - is a good idea.
> 
> ...


 This makes sense, thank you! I will look into this.


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## Properus (Dec 10, 2020)

N0rmanski said:


> For temperature stability on my Barista Express, I always run at least one shot through the system to heat it up (including portafilter and basket) if it's been on for 20 minutes, or I run 2 shots if it's been on for less time. Then dry the basket and portafilter before filling with coffee.
> 
> Have you tried other coffees? I went through a phase of hating everything before I realised I didn't like the coffees I was using.
> 
> I'm not sure if this will help in your instance, but I tend to use 19g in using a Barista Express.


 The coffee is fine as I use it via other brew methods, I will try the running shots through the machine method. Thanks!


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## damo6925 (Jul 26, 2020)

Properus said:


> Hey all, I'm having some issues getting drinkable shots out of my Barista Touch. I've had it for about 5 months and haven't been able to get much out of it. I've acquired some scales, distribution tool and a bottomless port... my shots aren't channeling anymore which is great, but still taste pretty grim.
> 
> My shots are coming out in reasonable time (27 seconds, 17 in and 35 out) and I've gone up and down in terms of dose and it still comes out tasting pretty poor. I'm unsure if it's 'bitter' or 'sour' but I believe it leans more towards the sour side. I'm using a local dark roast.
> 
> ...


Something that worked for me in relation to your taste, if you make a shot that you know is mega under extracted (say 15 seconds) and make another that it mega over extracted (say 40-50 seconds) then taste both, it might give you some reference for bitter and sour.

Once you have that reference, it might then help you diagnose what your regular shot is, and then in turn help with a remedy.

I actually find that the shots on my barista touch, are predominantly sour in what is considered the guide range of 25-30 seconds and I often push up to the late 30 early 40 second mark and find them better.

I'm still learning with it, also 4/5 months of ownership. Ironically the best shot I've ever had out of it was recently with a fine grind setting, it was really slow to pour from the portafilter but didn't snag at all and produced a shot, of the rough ideal weight, in about 45-50 seconds. Well out of the 'norm' but by far the sweetest and most delicious shot I've had.

I guess it's trial and error and learning about the machine... The only downside is it costs me a fortune in beans! 

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

damo6925 said:


> Something that worked for me in relation to your taste, if you make a shot that you know is mega under extracted (say 15 seconds) and make another that it mega over extracted (say 40-50 seconds) then taste both, it might give you some reference for bitter and sour.
> 
> Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk


 This will rarely work at 1:2, because you're not pushing enough water through the puck to over-extract easily, no matter how long the shot takes.

You don't want bitter, or sour. You want nice, so keep the grind adjustments going in the same direction until all are bad, back track to last known good setting, then try in the other direction & see if it improves.


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## Properus (Dec 10, 2020)

damo6925 said:


> Something that worked for me in relation to your taste, if you make a shot that you know is mega under extracted (say 15 seconds) and make another that it mega over extracted (say 40-50 seconds) then taste both, it might give you some reference for bitter and sour.
> 
> Once you have that reference, it might then help you diagnose what your regular shot is, and then in turn help with a remedy.
> 
> ...


 That's interesting.. what was the dose and grind out of curiosity? Also have you adjusted the top bur?



MWJB said:


> This will rarely work at 1:2, because you're not pushing enough water through the puck to over-extract easily, no matter how long the shot takes.
> 
> You don't want bitter, or sour. You want nice, so keep the grind adjustments going in the same direction until all are bad, back track to last known good setting, then try in the other direction & see if it improves.


 This was my main reservation when reading above. A 40 second extraction, regardless of grind size could not produce anything drinkable, surely.. I think temperature is my main issue so try to further diagnose that.


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## damo6925 (Jul 26, 2020)

Properus said:


> This was my main reservation when reading above. A 40 second extraction, regardless of grind size could not produce anything drinkable, surely.. I think temperature is my main issue so try to further diagnose that.


18g in at grind size 8. Can only speak for my own experience, whilst not drinkable will be four or bitter. Worked for me and helped me a lot, may not help others.

Top burr has been adjusted to number 4...

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## Properus (Dec 10, 2020)

damo6925 said:


> 18g in at grind size 8. Can only speak for my own experience, whilst not drinkable will be four or bitter. Worked for me and helped me a lot, may not help others.
> 
> Top burr has been adjusted to number 4...
> 
> Sent from my PCT-L29 using Tapatalk


 Thank you for the suggestion, I will explore this for sure. Have a lovely Christmas.


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## damo6925 (Jul 26, 2020)

Properus said:


> Thank you for the suggestion, I will explore this for sure. Have a lovely Christmas.


And you! All the best

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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Properus said:


> This was my main reservation when reading above. A 40 second extraction, regardless of grind size could not produce anything drinkable, surely.. I think temperature is my main issue so try to further diagnose that.


 You're not looking for an extraction of any particular time. One 40s shot may not have anything in common with another beyond being 40s.

For more extraction a longer ratio (more coffee out) will have more impact than increasing time from 30-40s, or a couple of degrees temp.


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## Dalerst (Jan 22, 2020)

Have you measured the temp coming from the filter on extraction? I would say you are probably not getting the coffee out at the right temp. The machine is very sensitive to extraction time and water flow to get the right heat. I find that 18g in 50g out in 28 seconds give just about the right heat.


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