# Reviving a dead Gaggia Coffee Deluxe?



## qpop

Hi all - I've been lurking here for some time and hoping somebody with more knowledge than me can help out!

Around five years ago I purchased a Gaggia Coffee Deluxe used from eBay. It was in full working condition and made reasonable espresso for some time.

After a year or two the pump died. I bought a replacement and had some problems resealing the connections on the replacement. I basically gave up and left it at my parents in law's, where it has been gathering dust.

Over the holiday period I thought I would dig it back out and have a look. The good news? The leak appears to have fixed itself.

The bad news: It isn't making coffee.

The boiler is working, and the steam pump appears to work (regardless of whether the steam button is pressed or not - I seem to remember this was a "feature" originally anyway), but when the espresso switch is on, the pump dies to a quiet little whimper and nothing happens. Group head is completely dry.

I've uploaded a couple of pictures and some videos, and would appreciate any advice. Is it worth trying to recondition? Should I find someone with some skills to service it? Should it just be binned?

Thanks in advance!

Pictures of the machine:


http://imgur.com/xvFOn


Video of the steam pump working with steam switched off






Video of the steam pump working with steam switched on:

[video=youtube;-zdjllAtibc]




Nothing happening when espresso switched on:


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## Mrboots2u

Bump moved to gaggia sub forum


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## MrShades

The steam wand will always produce a small amount of steam, as you've shown in your first video - that's normal.

You don't give the boiler any chance at all to increase the temperature in the 2nd video, so the result will be very similar to the first - again, looks pretty normal. If you left the steam switch on for 2-3 mins and then opened the steam valve you'd probably find even more steam.

(There is no 'steam pump' by the way, it's just the pressure of the steam inside the boiler that makes it come out when you open the valve).

When you turn the brew switch on, it appears to do almost nothing - so it looks like something within the brew path/group is blocked or water isn't making it into the boiler properly. There's a valve in the bottom of the boiler on the Coffee Deluxe (as I doesn't have a solenoid valve) which can become blocked/stick, and then there's a chance that scale has blocked the holes in the dispersion plate, etc. Finally there's a chance that the Self Priming Valve (SPV) is sticking open (but then I'd expect the pump to continue quite happily - and yours sounds like it's going quiet).

To make sure that the pump is working as it should - open the steam valve (like you do in the first video) and steam will come out for a short while... and then (without closing the steam valve) turn the brew switch on (which should start the pump). This SHOULD produce hot water from the steam wand after a short period of time. If it does so, and the pump runs quite happily and pumps water out then the problem is almost certainly a sticking / stuck ball valve or another blockage in the dispersion plate / brew head.

Do the 'steam wand open with brew switch on' test and see what happens. If water comes out, it's probably the ball-valve, and if water doesn't come out then it's possibly the SPV (or the pump itself).

Shades


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## qpop

The pump doesn't make no noise at all when I turn on the coffee, it just goes very quiet.

I'll try what you've mentioned later and report back.

Unlikely to be scale issues as the machine was used exclusively in Sheffield (no scale in the water!)

Now I'm in Leicestershire and will have to be more vigilant descaling...


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## MartinB

Search around for the forum for cleaning the outlet valve. I think your machine may use an outlet valve so look into removing & cleaning!


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## qpop

MrShades said:


> The steam wand will always produce a small amount of steam, as you've shown in your first video - that's normal.
> 
> You don't give the boiler any chance at all to increase the temperature in the 2nd video, so the result will be very similar to the first - again, looks pretty normal. If you left the steam switch on for 2-3 mins and then opened the steam valve you'd probably find even more steam.
> 
> (There is no 'steam pump' by the way, it's just the pressure of the steam inside the boiler that makes it come out when you open the valve).
> 
> When you turn the brew switch on, it appears to do almost nothing - so it looks like something within the brew path/group is blocked or water isn't making it into the boiler properly. There's a valve in the bottom of the boiler on the Coffee Deluxe (as I doesn't have a solenoid valve) which can become blocked/stick, and then there's a chance that scale has blocked the holes in the dispersion plate, etc. Finally there's a chance that the Self Priming Valve (SPV) is sticking open (but then I'd expect the pump to continue quite happily - and yours sounds like it's going quiet).
> 
> To make sure that the pump is working as it should - open the steam valve (like you do in the first video) and steam will come out for a short while... and then (without closing the steam valve) turn the brew switch on (which should start the pump). This SHOULD produce hot water from the steam wand after a short period of time. If it does so, and the pump runs quite happily and pumps water out then the problem is almost certainly a sticking / stuck ball valve or another blockage in the dispersion plate / brew head.
> 
> Do the 'steam wand open with brew switch on' test and see what happens. If water comes out, it's probably the ball-valve, and if water doesn't come out then it's possibly the SPV (or the pump itself).
> 
> Shades


OK - I did as you said and water comes out of the steam wand.

I note that when I switch the coffee on (with steam off) The pump is at full volume then suddenly cuts to barely audible. When switched off and on again the pump doesn't come back on full volume, just the barely audible buzz again.

The pump was replaced and then never used (as there was a leak in a seal somewhere), so I guess it's the ball valve - what's my next step?


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## MrShades

The pump is going quiet because the 'system' is at full pressure and it can't do anything more. When you initially turn it on it's making a noise as it's pumping the system up to pressure (which should then release as brew water through the ball valve in the bottom of the boiler - but doesn't). When you turn off and then on again the system is still at full pressure hence there's negligible pump noise again. If you briefly opened the steam valve prior to turning the brew pump on again I bet it'd make a noise again as it pumps back up to pressure.

Do a search on here and generally google how to clean the gaggia brew / ball valve - you should find some instructions reasonably easily.

Actually - here you go :


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## MartinB

It'll be an outlet valve on the Coffee Deluxe - same concept - albeit a 12/13mm socket to remove instead.


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## marcuswar

MartinB said:


> It'll be an outlet valve on the Coffee Deluxe - same concept - albeit a 12/13mm socket to remove instead.


Do you mean the SPV or the Brew valve ? I don't remember either of those being a 12/13mm socket ? The brew valve (small rubber nub on a spring) is screwed into the bottom of the boiler behind the dispersion plate. It has a large slot across it so a large screwdriver can be used to unscrew it. I ended up "making" a tool by grinding down an old chisel when I needed to remove mine. I've just measured it's blade and its 13mm wide and 2mm thick. It does need to be quite exact to fit correctly so if the OP can't find a screwdriver to fit and want to borrow it, drop me a pm and I'll pop it in the post for him to use.

Regarding the SPV, I'd take the opportunity while I was inside the machine to cap this off. I just removed the tube, unscrewed the nipple and screwed in a small brass screw to block it off and reassembled. The SPV causes more trouble than it's worth in my opinion. It's not hard to just remember to manually prime the boiler by opening the steam want and hitting the brew switch until water come out, is it ?


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## qpop

OK, so I descaled and cleaned the group head as per the guide but I still get water out the steam wand but none from the group head.


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## marcuswar

If you remove the shower plate and dispersion plate again and unscrew the brew valve and remove the spring and ball and then run the pump do you get water coming out of the bottom? If no then I guess there must be a blockage in the boiler, if yes then the pump mustn't be getting enough pressure into the boiler to overcome the spring pressure.


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## qpop

marcuswar said:


> If you remove the shower plate and dispersion plate again and unscrew the brew valve and remove the spring and ball and then run the pump do you get water coming out of the bottom? If no then I guess there must be a blockage in the boiler, if yes then the pump mustn't be getting enough pressure into the boiler to overcome the spring pressure.


The boiler should be ok as it's effectively new (albeit it's sat around for some time) so I guess it's likely to be blockage.

I ran a packet of Puly through the tank via the steam wand last night too and the first half was pretty milky/full of sediment, so much for my views on Sheffield's water!

I'll try this later - I wonder if a general take-apart and re-put-together would be in order?

edit:

Would I be better off giving up hope on this machine, selling it as spares of repairs and buying a Gaggia Classic (like the ones gaggiamanualservice sells)?

Is there any tangible advantage to holding onto this (old) model vs a newer one?


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## MartinB

Don't give up hope!

Remove the shower screen & block and show us a video of the brewhead and what happens when pressing the brew switch.

I had a similar problem a few years ago on my machine of the same era - cleaned the outlet valve and I was back up & running again.


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## marcuswar

qpop said:


> The boiler should be ok as it's effectively new (albeit it's sat around for some time) so I guess it's likely to be blockage.
> 
> I ran a packet of Puly through the tank via the steam wand last night too and the first half was pretty milky/full of sediment, so much for my views on Sheffield's water!
> 
> I'll try this later - I wonder if a general take-apart and re-put-together would be in order?
> 
> edit:
> 
> Would I be better off giving up hope on this machine, selling it as spares of repairs and buying a Gaggia Classic (like the ones gaggiamanualservice sells)?
> 
> Is there any tangible advantage to holding onto this (old) model vs a newer one?


When you say you ran some "puly" through it, you do mean Puly Descaler and not Puly Caff don't you. Just checking as Puly Caff is a detergent and not a descaler, and I know the their naming does cause confusion. Putting Puly Caff through it would definitely produce a milk fluid from the steam tip!

When you initially cleaned it and you took the brew valve (spring with a rubber tip) out of the boiler was there any evidence of scale on the rubber tip ?


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## qpop

marcuswar said:


> When you say you ran some "puly" through it, you do mean Puly Descaler and not Puly Caff don't you. Just checking as Puly Caff is a detergent and not a descaler, and I know the their naming does cause confusion. Putting Puly Caff through it would definitely produce a milk fluid from the steam tip!
> 
> When you initially cleaned it and you took the brew valve (spring with a rubber tip) out of the boiler was there any evidence of scale on the rubber tip ?


I mean Puly Descaler.

There was no evidence of scale on the rubber tip. Everything seemed reasonably clean. After having the brew switch for a while I touched the shower plate and it was bone dry.

I'm thinking the next step would be dismantlement and putting back together but I'm a bit worried it will never work again if I do so!


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## marcuswar

Well it don't work now, so what have you got to loose


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## qpop

IT LIVES!

Weak espresso with poor crema and a pool of water above the coffee puck in the filter basket.

Possibly just first shot blues?

They were 14g of supermarket (Eg stale) beans freshly ground at grind setting 10 on a sage smart grinder pro. I let the machine warm for 20 minutes.

Also, the machine is very "steamy" when heating up.

Any ideas about this?


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## MrShades

What did you do to it, to eventually get water out of the brew group???


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## MartinB

Lovely job, what did you do to repair it?


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## qpop

Ahh yes in my excitement I neglected to mention my idiocy.

Last night when I dismantled the group head I didn't remove the whole valve assembly, just the spring, leaving the rest inside the machine without realising.

I realised my mistake today after looking at an exploded diagram, pulled out the whole valve and it was completely caked in white chalky scale.

Clearing that out got the water going and I did an epic descaling session and now things seem to be working!


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## MrShades

Cool - I love it when a plan comes together (as the great man often said!)


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## marcuswar

Good job, glad you got to the bottom of it.


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## marcuswar

qpop said:


> Also, the machine is very "steamy" when heating up.
> 
> Any ideas about this?


When you say steamy, where from... the steam wand, brew head ?


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## qpop

marcuswar said:


> When you say steamy, where from... the steam wand, brew head ?


I'm not sure. Just the sound of escaping steam. No obvious place.

I tried to make an espresso this morning following the guide on the sticky thread Youtube video.

It was a total failure!

The guide says to fill the portabasket to brimming and top off, so I did that. Tamped down hard (albeit using an aeropress plunger as I don't have a tamper for the time being) and clicked it into the machine. After a minute there was the tiniest bit of coffee in the bottom of the cup.

I used good quality freshly roast beans and due to filling the basket probably used 20-25g of coffee, ground at "10" on the Sage Smart Grinder Pro (middle of the Espresso range).

I used a filter basked that looked like this: http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/hd0183-gaggia-double-filter-basket.html - I guess it's similar to the non-pressurised gaggia classic filter basket.

Compared to the above pictures (14g of coffee, reasonable, slow flow with poor/light crema and a small lake above the puck in the basket after brewing), I've now had 2/2 failures!

I'm guessing the machine is either not providing enough pressure or I've overloaded the machine/overtamped. Could anybody give me an "idiot's guide" to getting a reasonable espresso from the machine before I give up all hope?


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## MartinB

Personally, i'd say that 20-25g is a hell of a lot for a double basket. Try 15-17g and see how you get on with the same grind. Try and keep control of the variables and see how things progress


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## qpop

MartinB said:


> Personally, i'd say that 20-25g is a hell of a lot for a double basket. Try 15-17g and see how you get on with the same grind. Try and keep control of the variables and see how things progress


I thought the same thing, but all the guides seem to say "fill until full and then wipe off the top". Am I getting confused with single baskets?


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## MrShades

It very much depends on how "fluffy" the grinds are before you tamp. A light tamp should see the top of the compressed coffee around 5mm-8mm below the rim of the basket before you load it in the machine.


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## marcuswar

Different beans and different grind settings yield different weights per volume so simply "filling the basket" is not really a good measure on the weight of coffee used. As MartinB said 20-25g is far to much and if that was at the same grind as you used for the "slow pour" 14g then no wonder it choked. I'd personally go for 17g (weight of the ground beans) but with a coarser grind. If that's still too slow or choaking then make the grind coarser and try again etc. Try and get everything consistent every time (weight of coffee , tamp pressure, boiler temperature etc) and adjust the grinder setting to alter to pour duration.


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## qpop

MartinB said:


> Personally, i'd say that 20-25g is a hell of a lot for a double basket. Try 15-17g and see how you get on with the same grind. Try and keep control of the variables and see how things progress


I thought the same thing, but all the guides seem to say "fill until full and then wipe off the top". Am I getting confused with single baskets?


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## marcuswar

Once you get the grind right so the pour is good you can look at using temperature surfing to get a better or more consistent taste, but for now just concentrate on getting the weight and grind set up.


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## MartinB

I'd invest in some pocket scales for sub £4 on eBay - that's one variable that can be controlled. Next is the grind, and so on.


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## marcuswar

qpop said:


> I thought the same thing, but all the guides seem to say "fill until full and then wipe off the top". Am I getting confused with single baskets?


Ohh don't ever use the single basket... they are MUCH HARDER to use, so my advice is to always make a double.

As I said "fill to the top" is a very rough measuring stick. You could fill to the top but you'd still have to back the grinder off quite a lot to stop it choking. Weight and Grind are like two sides of the same coin and you have to alter one to offset a change in the other.

You will get MUCH better results by actually using a set of digital scales. You can pickup a small set of digital jewellery scales on eBay for less than a £5. You want some that ideally weigh in 0.01g steps.


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## qpop

OK, I've had better luck with reasonable freshly-roasted Kenyan beans from a local supplier.

I used 18g, tamped medium-hard, and on two separate occasions have had reasonable espresso. Crema still lacking a bit, and the puck is watery.

I should take delivery of the following today from Happy Donkey:

Milk jug, thermometer, tamper, new group gasket (just in case)

Is there a flow-chart type approach that says: For the same temp/weight a coarser grind will give x, a finer grind will give y. More coffee will give z, less will give -z. I don't really understand at this point what the variables are likely to produce.


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## MrShades

Coincerning your issue with the coffee grind/quantity: the main variables, as you say, if everything else remains constant - are degree of grind (coarse/fine) and amount of coffee.

It's more of an art than a science... but if you did a 3D graph, with "tastiness of espresso" on the vertical axis, and then amount of coffee on the X and degree of grind on the Y - you'd probably find that there was a huge area that was "flat" (ie tastiness on zero) and then a few "large peaks" here and there, where the combination of grind and quantity come together to for a tasty espresso. The large peaks may well form a "ridge" (if everything else stays equal, and you don't start preinfusing, playing with pressure/temp, etc.) - as there's normally a good correlation between grind and quantity (ie if a shot is awful and pours too fast - you can tighten the grind or increase the quantity - both to a degree, though you have to be "close" for this to be true).

Most people try to keep one of the variables constant - so that's usually the amount of coffee. Start off at 17g - 18g (get some scales and weigh) and then tweak the grind thereafter.


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## marcuswar

Good to hear you're making progress












qpop said:


> Crema still lacking a bit, and the puck is watery.


I think you'll always end up with a watery puck on a Gaggia Deluxe to some extent as it doesn't have a 3way solenoid valve like on a classic. It just relies on that spring and rubber bung to overcome boiler pressure, so can always leak a bit of water from the boiler rather than having a definite shut off position.

Creama can be affected by grind and beans, maybe those beans just don't produce a lot of crema ?


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## qpop

marcuswar said:


> Good to hear you're making progress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'll always end up with a watery puck on a Gaggia Deluxe to some extent as it doesn't have a 3way solenoid valve like on a classic. It just relies on that spring and rubber bung to overcome boiler pressure, so can always leak a bit of water from the boiler rather than having a definite shut off position.
> 
> Creama can be affected by grind and beans, maybe those beans just don't produce a lot of crema ?


I'll try making the grind finer and see.

Tamper jug and thermometer arrived today.

Is it worth modding a machine of this age/that is so basic or should I be looking at an upgrade reasonably soon?


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## MartinB

Buy a cheap Classic in poor condition on eBay/Gumtree and transplant everything into your machine









Or alternatively, advertise yours for sale and purchase a new machine!


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## qpop

So I switched the machine on for a morning coffee and after a couple of minutes of heating it promptly died. No sign of life or power. I checked the kettle plug I'm using and its only fused to 3amp which I guess is the issue. Does anyone know what amp plug the coffee or classic is shipped with?


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## marcuswar

Given that its rated at 1400w I'd hope it comes with a 13 amp ! (1400/220 = ~ 6amp)


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## bean_there

Just checked my Coffee Deluxe and it's got a 13 amp fuse. That's what it was shipped with.


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## qpop

marcuswar said:


> Given that its rated at 1400w I'd hope it comes with a 13 amp ! (1400/220 = ~ 6amp)


Schoolboy error on my part. I long ago misplaced the original lead but have a drawer full of 3-pin kettle plugs for PCs, which are obviously rated much lower.

Should I refit the plug with a 13A fuse then?


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## marcuswar

Yes


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## qpop

The espresso seems to be improving, though crema is still weak. I can get ~40gr out from 16gr in now and will fine the grind to try and bring the eventual weight down.

I'm wondering if a lack of pressure is the issue with the crema so have added my name to the OPV gauge list to test my theory (not that I can adjust the OPV if it is bad - I'll just admit defeat and buy a replacement!)


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## qpop

OK so if I make the grind finer (setting 4 on the Smart Grinder Pro from 5), the machine chokes with 16gr coffee. On setting 5 the machine pulls 40-42gr through in 26 seconds from 16gr coffee.

In order to bring the time down, do I need to increase volume of coffee in, tamp harder, or ... ?


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## jeebsy

If that's the smallest adjustment you can make the difference is ridiculous


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## qpop

jeebsy said:


> If that's the smallest adjustment you can make the difference is ridiculous


I thought that too - perhaps I'd over tamped it or something?


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