# Tamping pressure?



## Cheshire Phill (Dec 4, 2013)

Can someone please articulate tamping pressure to me in words?

I've been getting horrible coffee and am even considering going "Nesspresso" , if I can't at least get coffee for Americano!

so I've watched a video from the Gaggia thread, and the lad really leans on the tamp, mentions "halfway down" for the coffee...so I'm guessing 30lb/sq in is pretty hard?

Feeling really discouraged

CheshirePhill


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It's not quite that simple Phil perhaps if you answer a few more questions we can help you a great deal.

1. What machine and grinder are you using.

2. Are you using freshly roasted beans

3. Do you weigh in and weigh out your shots

4. What is your shot prep routine.

I know none of these questions directly relate to tamping pressure but they will help to give you some advice in getting that elusive Americano.

However in short tamp pressure is just how much force you use to compress the coffee, but this varies upon the fineness of the grind, it is not the only factor involved with tamping though, as grind distribution and how level and even the tamping is also play a major part in the resulting shot.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Don't get discouraged Phill, we're all here to help you. As coffeechap said there may be more than one issue involved so give as much info as you can to help identify the problem.

Learning to make great coffee is not something that can be done overnight. It takes a bit of understanding of the variables involved but once you're there you are rewarded with better coffee than any of the chains can offer you - no contest.

Hang in there, you won't be disappointed!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

As previously mentioned theres more to it, however to measure tamp pressure and get a feel for 30lb get the bathroom scales, put a towel on them and practice.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Answering coffeechaps questions are the first port of call, to be honest it is unlikely to be your tamp that is the main source of your bad coffee. Getting your tamp right is something you have to spend time practicing once you have got nearly everything else nailed down.

Bare in mind that 30lb is not an absolute, and don't get obsessed with that number. Some people prefer a finer grind and a lighter tamp,m and other a coarser grind and a much firmer tamp. Its something to fiddle with and find what suites you, your beans and your machine best, but only after you have got everything else right


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## RagingMammoth (Sep 21, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> 1. What machine and grinder are you using.
> 
> 2. Are you using freshly roasted beans
> 
> ...


Agree with this. Newcomers often neglect on the grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Phil are you using a cubika with a pressurised PF ? I know you were contemplating a grinder or hand grinder . Did you get one ?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the tamp pressure is the least of the issues when starting out. I think for now if you forget trying to achieve the 30lbs. As long as you try and get some consistency with the tamp and try and get it the same every time.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Phil whereabouts in Cheshire are you maybe there is one of us within a reasonable distance that you could bring your equipment to and go through your routine and get some pointers, there are a growing number of members in the North West these days.


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## Cheshire Phill (Dec 4, 2013)

Chaps/Chapesses(?);

Firstly, thanks for all the enthusiastic offers of help, BTW, I am in Macclesfield, and would LOVE to see how good espresso really happens, I have watched endless bottomless filter [porn-style] fantastic vids of perfect looking espressos forming and wondered why I can't even get near these...

So, a bit about where I came from on this coffee journey before I answer coffee chaps questions. I absolutely love coffee, my stock morning shot is a mug of black, filter coffee, made by pouring boiling water through a Dowe Egberts 1 cup Italian filter. This because its fast, and easy as I make Mrs Phill her morning pot of tea (easy, easy, easy!). For convenience, I tried a Tassimo pod machine, but hated all of their coffees&#8230;however, I feel only a tadge away from going to the dark side of George Clooney advertised Nesspresso if I can't get some success soon&#8230; had one in John Lewis's recently, and it wasn't too bad. I like black coffee, either Americano, or espresso, no sugar unless it needs it for a bitter edge. The DE are fine, but I wanted more. Mainly at weekends, I also used my pressurised Gaggia Cubika Plus to make some fake crema style espressos, which I often topped up to Americanos. Not brilliant, but OK with the right coffee. During the day, I have Costa black Americanos, or espressos, as we have an outlet 20yds from my office door. I actually was given some of their grounds (Mazzer, I think?), ground fresh, and I still didn't do any good with that either, though it was drinkable in an Americano...

After a dabble on this forum, I took a punt and bought a Gaggia Classic (2007), which I cleaned up, back flushed etc. seems fine. Haven't done OPV mod [yet].

I also bought a Gaggia MDF (2009) as an in-between step, before splashing out on a Mignon. The MDF suggested grind range for espresso is 4 - 7, (I have a web pdf from a Coffeegeek user I think).

So far so good, I have a decent, heavyweight tamper (Happy Donkey) and also HD Italian beans. I've ground fresh beans, from grind 4, when I've choked the machine, and got almost nothing, through to grind 7, when I got v fast flow, almost no crema, v v bitter shot.

Now to CC's Qs:

1. Using 2007 Gaggia Classic and Gaggia MDF 2009 grinder.

2. Happy Donkey Italian beans, have also tried Sains Esspresso (I know, I know&#8230

3. I have a jewellers scale (300g in 0.01g increments) and am weighing 16g of beans in, then shots out into two espresso cups&#8230;not usually weighing these (I have), but I know what 25-30ml in each looks like.

4. I warm the Classic for at least 30 mins, run water through the group head, and put portafilter on to warm up. Then weigh beans, grind, weigh grounds into basket, tamp firmly and time a shot for 25sec or so.

No "mouse tails" for me, usually a thin black stream, if I'm lucky a bit of crema, then 2 x really bitter shots of evil black liquid, 25-30mls in maybe 15-20secs...

I'd really value any help - maybe the Italian HD beans are too bitter anyway, maybe I should try some HasBean starter pack beans? I do want to do this, but I can't seem to get near the LOOK of the shot, let alone the TASTE, so far







 so any help would be appreciated!!

Thanks all!!

CheshirePhill


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Are the beans fresh Phill ?


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## Cheshire Phill (Dec 4, 2013)

The beans I've been using are from Happy Donkey&#8230;so I thought would be decent&#8230;but on close inspection, they do say best before Dec 2014, and have no roast date, so I'm not too sure...


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## Cheshire Phill (Dec 4, 2013)

Bouncing this to see if I can solicit any followup - CoffeeChap, MrBoots etc. are you there?


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

I am sure they will be along soon. But from what you have just said order some fresh beans!! Hasbean or Rave whatever suits your taste!

Other than that make sure your coffee distribution in the basket is good and tamp consistently (whatever you want that pressure to be) keep an eye on the puck after your shots to see if you are getting channelling as this can explain going from choking the machine to getting fast flowing shots very quickly.

Lastly couldn't see it in the posts but assume you are no longer using pressurised baskets?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Cheshire Phill said:


> The beans I've been using are from Happy Donkey&#8230;so I thought would be decent&#8230;but on close inspection, they do say best before Dec 2014, and have no roast date, so I'm not too sure...


Usually raosters put a year on their beans so the beans were probably roasted in December 2013.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

As Kikapu says, Phil, might be an idea to try some different beans and make sure they are fresh. To get an idea of how much pressure 30lbs is, try pressing down on a set of bathroom scales - tell your wife what you're doing so you don't give her a fright! For the Classic, I would try 18grms, tamp firmly but not excessively and then adjust the grind on your Classic to get around 45mls out in 27secs. Don't confuse the presence of crema with quality - rely on your sense of taste. Some beans give off loads of crema, e.g. Monsooned Malabar - others less so. Avoid beans that are roasted very dark - you'll just get an acrid bitter taste in your mouth and little else.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

As CC says guessing beans are ok , to qualify what basket are you using in the pf?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Ok phill have read through what you put and have the following observations, as a previous owner of the celebrated gaggia classic I can assure that you can get a great shot of coffee from them, the key is surfing the temperature right on them, but I will leave that to those on here that routinely use the classics as it varies, needless to say if you get in the wrong temperature zone it will significantly affect your shot quality.

Get some fresh beans as from you description of the shot it would appear that they are probably a bit stale, hence the complete lack of crema in the shot, loads of good roasters out there, I heartily recommend rave coffee as a starting point.

Merely looking at the shot means nothing, it is really important that you not only weigh the beans going in but also the weight of the shot coming out, done buy zeroing your scales with the espresso glass on it then placing directly under the spouts. You should aim for a a ball park 1.6 ratio, so if you put 16 grams in then the output should be 25 grams out over a period of 27 seconds from when you press the brew button.

The ginder is capable but is stepped so there for you could be in between increments for the bean you are using, ( but if it is not fresh then it is irrelevant) try a different bean, and possibly mod the grinder to stepless using tape on the grind adjustment thread, I am sure there is a thread on how to do this somewhere.

Next is portafilter prep, you have to distribute the grinds evenly in the basket there are loads of methods but most talk about stirring the grinds and NESW which jest means using your finger to spread the grinds evenly into the basket, your tamp should be commensurate with the grind of the coffee, so the finer so go the lighter you tamp, again practice tamp pressure, some recommend 30 lbs which can be practiced on bathroom scales, I use a very heavy tamp with very little pressure, but it comes down to preference, the key is repeatability. Make sure the tamp is level as an uneven tamp will result in channelling.

Follow the advice and guidance in the gaggia threads with great beans and good prep and you will get great espresso..


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

Hi

I have got some Happy Donkey Italian with the same use by date I am using right now. Finding them a tadge on the bitter side for me (may be my dodgy technique - see rest of post), but perfectly respectable and getting good crema. I drink black Americanos, no sugar. Using Mignon and Gaggia classic. I'm a relative newbie and don't bother at all with temperature surfing ('nuff respect to those who do). Also don't go in for weighing shots and all that malarkey. Bit of trial and error with the grind and tamping pressure until I like what I get is all.

What works for me with these beans is a fine grind and a medium tamp - I doubt I tamp anything like 30 lbs, probably more like 10.

So from above, I doubt its the beans, and I will be using my 2nd pack of these before buying some more Mexican from Nude (which Mrs Chris really liked). Not likely to buy more HD beans.

Given that I am getting better shots with this bean using the Mignon compared to my old MC2, I'm guessing the grind might be the issue.

Hope it works out for you, Phil.

Chris


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

HD beans are pretty good, they certainly shouldn't have been stale on arrival, but it cant hurt to buy some more to be sure they are fresh.

I would suggest Rave sig as I find them very easy to get a good shot out of, and I can be very lazy with my technique in the morning.

When first starting out it can help to follow a rigours set of guidelines to eliminate variables.

This means weighing your beans in, weighing your shot out (helps hone grind fineness and tamp), using a set 30lb tamp until you are confident to change it up. I even ended up buying a k-type thermometer to make sure my machine was at the right temp.

You will get there eventually, well worth plugging at it.

Lastly get yourself to an independent, respected coffee place that you KNOW (through recommendations or experience) can pull a great shot. Go there and have a shot of espresso and remember its taste, even take notes, although your beans will be different it will give you a good idea of what negative flavours to be aware of and hopefully help you eliminate them.


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## Cheshire Phill (Dec 4, 2013)

Thanks to all for the above, gives me lots of encouragement, will keep trying&#8230;one last question for now though:

Am I OK to remove the twin output from my portafilter (unpressurised basket) so I can collect in one espresso cup/glass? Makes the weighing much easier, and I think I may have been looking at 2 x 25g out&#8230;which would mean 2x too fast, wouldn't it?

Will persevere for a bit, going to use all my HD beans up, then try some fresh, milder type, prob HasBean or Rave.

THANKS ALL, I intend to get there!!

Phill


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

not quite sure what you mean, have you got a bottomless portafilter? Must admit I am having some problems with mine, tamping pressure and distribution seems more critical. I find need to tamp a bit harder with bottomless.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Cheshire Phill said:


> Am I OK to remove the twin output from my portafilter (unpressurised basket) so I can collect in one espresso cup/glass? Makes the weighing much easier, and I think I may have been looking at 2 x 25g out&#8230;which would mean 2x too fast, wouldn't it?


Short answer, yes. Have you tried removing the twin spout - if you can unscrew it - great. But, normally, they are screwed in very tight with Loctite applied to the thread and need heat and some heft to separate. If yours is loose, lucky you!


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