# Finally, microfoam



## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

After a month battling the classic to get mircofoamed milk with the rancilio wand I have finally nailed it (maybe I am a slow learner!) Perhaps to veterans the following is obvious but maybe it will help someone:

As others have mentioned not letting the thermostat click off is key, I didn't understand just how critical the timing of this is even a few degrees too soon and steam power is much less. I have a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler (almost mandatory with the classic's temp stability imo) and with my temp probe location it clicks off at 133C so I start steaming juuust before that temp since as soon as I start the temp does not seem to coast beyond that. When I time it like this there is so much steam I can almost spin the milk out of the pitcher which I have never seen before with it.

Previously I was not having the valve open enough during the stretching (not having enough steam or trying to conserve some for rolling) and getting some screeching - now I make sure I get the paper tearing noise with occasional 'tsch'

With the rolling phase having it actually spin doesn't seem to matter that much as long as it is agitated and roiling about it seems to be fine

I was worried I'd never manage a decent steam job unless I upgraded but like many things the classic can do it you just need to work around it.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Well done. You can practice some latte art now:good:


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

What do you mean "not letting the thermostat click off"?


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

just like the Silvia, you want that stat light on constantly during steaming


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

glevum said:


> just like the Silvia, you want that stat light on constantly during steaming


Oh ok thanks.

How do you do that? It always goes off for me.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

start steaming before the light goes out, so boiler is constantly heating up for steam. once stat light is off the temperature is dying.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Not sure if its the same for the gaggia though.


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

Yeah I start to steam as soon as the steam light goes on but it always goes off half way through.


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## Dave.wilton (Dec 24, 2012)

I run a timer from the start of my shot. As soon as the shot is finished (25 secs) hit the steam switch l. Let the timer run and start steaming at 60 seconds (vent any water quickly first), the light should still be off. I find with those timings the light remains on throughout the steam meaning the boiler is working and giving you more power.


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Yeah on the Classic the light being ON means "ready" which will generally mean the thermostat is off, hence the need to temp surf prior to extraction to raise the temperature. When steaming you need to get into a routine for starting to steam just before the light goes on to keep the thermostat on and therefore constantly driving the steam otherwise it will drop off and spinning the milk effectively is very tricky.


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

Ok thanks guys.

Im surprised we need to do that with classic as thats what I did with my Cubika Plus which is a lower power machine.

I usually switch steam on and start steaming after 20 seconds.


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## drgekko (May 19, 2013)

Getting some great tips here as I believe that's also my problem - just not knowing when to press the steam button and when to release turn the steam valve and for how long.

Could you please summarise then from the moment you've extracted your shot with timings.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

I must have been lucky, because I'm an espresso noob, yet the first time I tried after fitting the Rancilio arm I got a pitcher full of near perfect micro foam. No other mods or temp surfing required, just works for me. The only thing I can say is that the tip needs to be very shallow, like 1mm or less in the milk. I also drop and raise the jug to get the odd 'tch', but being carful not to make bubbles. Then 1-2mm deeper when spinning (texturing).

You also need a proper thermometer with tje classic, rather than the temp tag stickers, because you need to stretch until 100 then spin. On commercial and higher end home machines I find you can go straight to the spinning stage and get good foam.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Seem to be getting a the hang of it a bit more tonight. Not going too deep is a good tip, think that's where I was going wrong previously.


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

Im going to practice more this weekend.

only got a cheap 350ml frothing jug at the moment. Fill it up to half way.

I will have my MC2 on friday so will be a coffee weekend lol


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

I do think things like surfing the boiler temp, and posh jugs etc do help, but I also think they can be a red herring for new users. Once you have the rancilio, which is a must IMO, it's really just down to technique and practice (and not trying to much milk). You will be surprised just how good the classic can be (in small amounts).


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

I only froth enough for one 12oz mug usually.

So thats about 10oz of milk and 2 oz of coffee.

Will probably get the Silvia wand next month.

I got the original model so the actual wand is slightly longer when you remove the plastic frother.


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## narc (Apr 25, 2013)

On this subject, does anyone one what process you need to go through if you want to steam another jug of milk? I've tried waiting for it to return to normal temp and hitting the steam switch again but the steaming power was feeble. How long does the classic take to recover?



drgekko said:


> Getting some great tips here as I believe that's also my problem - just not knowing when to press the steam button and when to release turn the steam valve and for how long.
> 
> Could you please summarise then from the moment you've extracted your shot with timings.


It seems to vary machine to machine and also dependant on what temp you pull your shot. What temp you start steaming at is very critical a couple of degrees seems to be the difference between 'ok' and 'really good' in terms of steam power. Having a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler to find at what temp the heater clicks off is vital imo, mine was only £6.



autopilot said:


> I must have been lucky, because I'm an espresso noob, yet the first time I tried after fitting the Rancilio arm I got a pitcher full of near perfect micro foam. No other mods or temp surfing required, just works for me. The only thing I can say is that the tip needs to be very shallow, like 1mm or less in the milk. I also drop and raise the jug to get the odd 'tch', but being carful not to make bubbles. Then 1-2mm deeper when spinning (texturing).
> 
> You also need a proper thermometer with tje classic, rather than the temp tag stickers, because you need to stretch until 100 then spin. On commercial and higher end home machines I find you can go straight to the spinning stage and get good foam.


Interesting, with my 500ml motta jug I need to push the steam wand in quite far to make the milk spin. I may try keeping it nearer the surface and seeing what happens.


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## autopilot (Apr 4, 2013)

narc said:


> On this subject, does anyone one what process you need to go through if you want to steam another jug of milk? I've tried waiting for it to return to normal temp and hitting the steam switch again but the steaming power was feeble. How long does the classic take to recover?
> 
> It seems to vary machine to machine and also dependant on what temp you pull your shot. What temp you start steaming at is very critical a couple of degrees seems to be the difference between 'ok' and 'really good' in terms of steam power. Having a thermocouple thermometer on the boiler to find at what temp the heater clicks off is vital imo, mine was only £6.
> 
> Interesting, with my 500ml motta jug I need to push the steam wand in quite far to make the milk spin. I may try keeping it nearer the surface and seeing what happens.


It's funny how people's experiences vary so much. It can take a couple of seconds of adjustment to get the angle right, but when I do it can almost (in fact has) spin the milk out of the jug. It's only a cheap little jug, enough for one latte. Terrible for latte art though.


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## Rusk (May 5, 2013)

I'm still trying to be consistent with making descent micro foam, really hit and miss at the moment being new to all this


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## HDAV (Dec 28, 2012)

For a second jug you'll need to refill the boiler with the brew switch this will lower the temp (adding cold water) then wait for it to heat up and start the second jug.


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## booyip (Jun 1, 2013)

I have a gaggia classic and have around 10 milky coffee drinkers coming round soon. How long between each espresso shot should I leave it to reheat the boiler? I have rancilio wand so reckon I can do two cups milk in one. Want Max flavour rather than speed, but within reason...


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

I reckon the first drink will be cold by the time you finish the 10th









keep the cups small, do enough milk for two in one go. Then refill the boiler and keep at it!! I tried it once for four people when I had a little gaggia... got fed up lol.

now i just shove the 4x1.5mm steam tip on my cherub and I can do enough milk for four drinks in about 30 seconds!


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

shrink said:


> I reckon the first drink will be cold by the time you finish the 10th
> 
> 
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Show off!!









ha ha


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

its never enough though is it mate







already im craving the customisation and precise adjustability of a PID dual boiler









Should stop fannying around and just buy myself a one group slayer


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## nekromantik (Nov 13, 2011)

shrink said:


> its never enough though is it mate
> 
> 
> 
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ha ha

I hope my classic keeps me satisfied for 2 years!


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## booyip (Jun 1, 2013)

Hehehe - I have a little faith in the old classic (in other words no chance of finance committee agreeing to upgrade).

How long should the boiler take to get up to temperature before each shot? Is it quicker after first shot and can I trust the lamp indicators?


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

shrink said:


> its never enough though is it mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


best sell the stereo to get that one


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

shrink said:


> its never enough though is it mate
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Think of the money saved through not needing a service until 1000000 shots pulled!


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

garydyke1 said:


> Think of the money saved through not needing a service until 1000000 shots pulled!


One group slayer is the eventual dream


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

How much is a 1 group slayer


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Dont think a price has been released yey for the uk but expect plus £6000


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