# To Tamp or Not To Tamp



## frederickaj (Jul 31, 2014)

The other day I watched a You tube video of a guy brewing espresso without tamping the coffee at all . the brew looked quite amazing so I thought i would try on my equipment . My Ascaso I-2 gave a surprisingly tasty result whereas my Compak K6 gave an even better

taste . Question is " where do I go from here "


----------



## anton78 (Oct 12, 2014)

Did you grind very, very fine?


----------



## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Uh-oh, I didn't even take part in the last tamping thread and I'm still exhausted


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

frederickaj said:


> Question is " where do I go from here "


Is it down to the lake, I fear?


----------



## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

That takes me back !


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Too soon. Far, far too soon.


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Up till then it had been a fantastic day.

Coat. Door. Gone.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

a lot of people have scoffed at the suggestion of not tamping in a recent thread, so do not expect much change here....that said, Ronsil sent me a naked pf that I received today and tomorrow without any practice, I am going to pull one shot on it and video it. No tightening the grind or anything like that. If it goes allover so be it, but I have never suggested using a naked without tamping, that is down others. Of course, a naked really was designed to let you use to check your preparation, not to sit and watch every shot you pull but never let the truth get in the way of a good story


----------



## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

I've seen the light recently

Grind finer, tamp lighter


----------



## @3aan (Mar 2, 2013)

To the public on location, I shows if it got to come to talks about tamping, a normal grind and a quick sweep an turn with the soft part of my hand beneath the little finger, just an indentation on the coffee, producing a near perfect espressoshot, but why do I tamp?

Its easyer, faster and the most important is clean hands, My normal tamp is no more than 7 pounds, I done this for a few hours on an registration scale and seven was the Lucky Number, tamp positioning with 2 fingers and My thumb with very little pressure on the edge of the tamper and the trim of the basket, after that a light polishing and done, its so easy if You do this a few hundred times a working day ;-)


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I think that the tamp plays its part, but it is the final act in shot preparation.If you have a grinder that puts an uneven load into the pf, then unless you stir and level how on earth can you expect not to have parts of the puck offering more resistance than others. If you have a grinder that produces a good mound, then the act of placing the tamper onto the mound is going to spread it outwards.

Not sure what people think of their own grinders ability to do this but I am pretty certain Mythos owners will think their machines up there with the best


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I tried massively to get a no tamp shot this week .... It is possible, but it's easier, quicker, cleaner and cleaner and cleaner to tamp

however

I now grind a lot finer and tamp a lot lighter


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

I'm curious, those of your who 'tamp light' you view/reaction to this:

https://coffeehustle.com/posts/EdP68LrWqAgyY4gsL/how-hard-should-you-tamp


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I think that's s load of theoretical balls that doesn't work in practice

if you grind coarse enough to allow a no maximum pressure tamp, then time did time again the shot starts normally but near the end of the extraction the water find its way around the bigger grinds and it channels

so you grind finer

but then you can't apply a maximum pressure tamp as you choke the machine

then there is taste .... Personally I can get better flavour from finer ground coffee

then there basket shape and size .... Why do lever owners grind a lot tighter and tamp lighter ?

ultimately, it's sn interesting theory and has nice pictures to back it up ... But in reality there is enough proof against that theory as there is for it !

and rightly so ... If espresso was a plotable graph then bean to cup machines would be good ..... The world has shown though that the skill of a barista is as important as the skill of a roaster when it comes to making a drink


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Not sure where exactly I stand on "light vs heavy" but I'll happily subscribe to any theory that states that human interaction and craft produces the best results. If bean 2 cup machines were the be all and end all we'd have good coffee but no fun and no forum cos there'd be nothing to discuss. Barista 1 robot Nil. Long may craft triumph over automation and homogeneity!

Out of curiosity why *do* lever owners grind finer and tamp lighter than pump machine owners? And how true is this? (Genuine questions, I wasn't aware of this).


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Perhaps we would talk about the coffee- it's taste - the quality of roast or beans . Machines pah ....it's a coffee forum isn't it ?


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I dunno if it's like that with the big lever machines that use 58mm baskets ... But the la pav and microcasa I have to grind finer otherwise by the end of the shot it pours through ... But do I don't choke the machine I need to tamp lighter

you can also only fit 14g in a la pavoni, so grinding finer improves the extraction a bit.

dont know the science but I bet it's basket shape and size related


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Perhaps we would talk about the coffee- it's taste - the quality of roast or beans . Machines pah ....it's a coffee forum isn't it ?


Unless I am wrong, then tamp or no tamp is an important part of shot preparation. Boots, you refract and like to have discussions about tds and yields etc etc....what is the difference. bet you a fiver, if Uncle matt came out with one of his papers on this you would sit up and listen


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

levers work an a smaller bar pressure which drops away as the shot pulls, whereas a pump machine unless it is a profiling machine works at the same rate. The only variable is the pucks resistance to the extracted liquid. I agree with boots on one thing, which is the taste is the bottom line.


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Assuming Uncle Matt is MP, post 13 has the link to his paper on this. The comments section below it swiftly turned to tamper shapes, where, according to one cH reader, flat makes your beans taste of chocolates and nut but convex brings out the floral notes! And I thought that was what the roaster did... I don't think any consensus will ever be reached but it's an education and something to talk about. And we can all try it out and see if we like it, without needing to convince anyone else. Maybe that's the excuse I need to get a non-flat tamper?


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Perhaps we would talk about the coffee- it's taste - the quality of roast or beans .


OK .... Finca San Jose is a crap bean and has an awful taste. Its sour, over extracted, channels and blondes from the get go.

hmmm .... I wonder if tamping and preparation have anything to do with the actual taste of coffee ???


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Unless I am wrong, then tamp or no tamp is an important part of shot preparation. Boots, you refract and like to have discussions about tds and yields etc etc....what is the difference. bet you a fiver, if Uncle matt came out with one of his papers on this you would sit up and listen


Probably - he is better looking than you and wears nice roll necks

The cynicism is high this morning


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

My cynicism is at its usual state. I do not understand your dismissal of this topic


----------



## malling (Dec 8, 2014)

risky said:


> I'm curious, those of your who 'tamp light' you view/reaction to this:
> 
> https://coffeehustle.com/posts/EdP68LrWqAgyY4gsL/how-hard-should-you-tamp


I think it depends on what you define as a light tamp, we are after all individuals who has different muscle strenght, so for one person a light tamp is another persons hard.

The definition of light versus optimum is simply to subjective and therefore of little value.

What I do agree with is that we should tamp hard enough for the grounds to compact to the point where the grinds can't compact any further.


----------



## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

Isn't it all about consistency though?

Making espresso is all about controlling the variables... If I can take a variable out of the equation then it makes it easier to make consistently good drinks. By tamping hard I can fix one of the variables.

I tamp hard and I have a lever... I still enjoy my coffee!!!


----------



## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

That was the gist of Matt Perger's article. From a consistency point of view it makes sense. I doubt I have sufficiently sensitive taste buds to argue one way or the other so I'm sitting on the fence a bit. He suggests that you tamp 'just hard enough' for the compaction to plateau (so as not to strain yourself unnecessarily after the grinds are fully compacted). This is going to depend on grind level/PSD to a large extent though. That's where it gets a bit hazy for me: where to grind tighter and where to tamp harder. Theory is ok but how to get it right? I suppose tamp as hard as you would normally, and set grind accordingly. That's what I've been doing, and it seems pretty consistent, but I don't know if I could get tastier shots by grinding finer and risking fluctuations in tamping pressure.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

h1udd said:


> OK .... Finca San Jose is a crap bean and has an awful taste. Its sour, over extracted, channels and blondes from the get go.


Which Finca San Jose?


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I've gone from Tamping fairly hard when I first started to grind fine and tamp light. I've recently started tamping harder again after changing my prep routine. Still undecided but a non-light tamp seems to work better for me of late.


----------



## frederickaj (Jul 31, 2014)

Seriously ?? That is way over the top .If I thought my post would have raised so many replies I would have thought twice about it .


----------



## frederickaj (Jul 31, 2014)

My only experience with coarser ground coffee is the packet stuff from supermarkets and the coarser grind when dialling in my grinders . Can't ever say I've got a decent brew from any of them despite nearly breaking a wrist whilst tamping


----------



## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> ...... Maybe that's the excuse I need to get a non-flat tamper?


well i exchanged my flat Motta for a convex Motta 58mm [ for a standard Gaggia 18g basket]

TBH - my 'newbie' palate can taste no difference

but - the curved seems easier to adjust a non-flat fill by tipping the tamper axis slightly

OTOH - i 'feel' its not quite right when i do the final moderately-hard tamp

and a nagging thought to buy a 'flat' base


----------

