# LONDINIUM L1



## joe07768 (Jan 27, 2020)

Hey Guys,

New to levers, bought an L1 2nd hand.

Where should I go for tips on shots and maintenance (de-scaling)?

Best, Joe


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## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

I would say here... just post your questions if they haven't been asked already...

Also bear in mind Londinium have their own user forum too...

On the descaling thing... this is not an easy job, and involves taking the boiler out of the machine to do it properly...

Most users avoid by using decent water!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Use Volvic water or water with a similar TDS and you won't need to worry about descaling. Piston seals need re-greasing 6-12 months depending on how much use it gets. The seals should last two/three years, again, depending on how long the machine is used/left on. If your L1 is biting 10-11O'clock and not slipping, it's performing as it should. There are plenty of videos showing how to service the piston seals if you need guidance. That's about it, maintenance-wise.

As for tips on shots. The mantra for levers is grind fine, tamp light. You should see first drips in around three - five seconds depending on level or roast you prefer. For darker roasts, dose around 15-16grms to get 22-24grms out in around 30secs. If you prefer lighter roasts, you can run pre-infusion a little longer but not much and dose higher - 17-18grms and run extraction longer - 1:2 - 34-36grs. These settings are not gospel - but a good place to start.

Original L1 runs on a syphon to heat the group - it's not pump driven. As a consequence, it can stall if it gets air in it. This happens if you run ridiculously long pre-infusions. If you do get air in the system, the tell tale sign is that you can put your palm on the group and keep it there. If it's too hot to keep you hand on it, syphon is working fine. To correct a syphon stall, pull plenty of water through the group via the lever and also run plenty of water through the hot water tap.

Tip for rapid heat up: Normally, the L1 takes around 30mins to get to proper operating temperature - around 93c. You can significantly reduce this time by letting the gauge get to operating bar pressure then pull the lever a couple of times to let water through. Pressure will drop immediately. Wait until it's back to operating pressure and repeat. You can get the machine to full working temp, i.e. the group at correct operating temp in around 10 minutes.


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## Grahamg (Oct 24, 2013)

I do think it's worth getting set up on the londinium forum and registered as an owner with Rhys. Lots of useful info on there, for me the 'wait for drips' mantra on pre infusion was the one that made the most difference to me taste wise. The forum is useful as some of the essential info has been built up over the years and most things are explained well and backed with use experiences - less easy to get overwhelmed as you would searching through threads here!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

joe07768 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> New to levers, bought an L1 2nd hand.
> 
> ...


 Welcome to the wonderful LI world and just to emphasise the wealth of information on here and help - I'm pretty certain that if The Systemic Kid and coffeechap don't know it, it's not worth knowing. It's the most satisfying way of producing espresso that I have ever experienced.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Original L1 runs on a syphon to heat the group - it's not pump driven. As a consequence, it can stall if it gets air in it. This happens if you run ridiculously long pre-infusions. If you do get air in the system, the tell tale sign is that you can put your palm on the group and keep it there. If it's too hot to keep you hand on it, syphon is working fine. To correct a syphon stall, pull plenty of water through the group via the lever and also run plenty of water through the hot water tap.


 @The Systemic Kid

I am one who plays around with fairly lengthy preinfusions. However, when doing long preinfusions with the lever *at the upper catch point*, my L1 not only stalls after a couple of shots, it refuses to continue. (If I leave it off for a couple of hours, it resumes filling the boiler & functioning again.) Strangely, this dead-in-the water stall does not happen if I preinfuse with the lever fully down, only if I preinfuse for 20 to 30 seconds at the upper catch point. Does that make any sense, that it only stalls if preinfusing at the upper catch point, and not at all if the preinfusion is done with lever down? Seems odd to me, so I am looking for a clearer understanding of the how & why.

You also mentioned that to clear air from the system requires running water from *both* the group and the hot water tap... the grouphead alone isn't sufficient to clear all the air from the system? Why is that?

I'm always seeking to get a better understanding of the system, but I do admit to sounding like a toddler with too many "whys".?

( I perform a cleaning flush after each & every shot.)


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Is there any reason why you preinfuse at the upper catch point and not fully down? When it's fully down water enters at boiler pressure on top of the puck from the holes in the piston walls. When you release the lever the spring the extracts under it's pressure until it completes and covers the holes. Are you try to reduce the pressure the spring exerts over the shot?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just to expand on the above, when you drop the lever, a measured amount of water is forced onto the puck. The idea of keeping the lever lowered is to let the puck absorb the water before you raise the lever and let the spring apply pressure to start the extraction


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

@Deidre As DFK and Stevebee say, when you cock the lever, 60ml of water is drawn into the chamber. It doesn't make contact with the puck until you release the lever at which point the syphon is vulnerable to air getting in via the small hole in the group chamber. When you say you are doing lengthy pre-infusions - how long?

In the early days of L1, Reiss got a lot of hassle from one or two owners saying the group temperature wasn't stable, i.e. maintaining 93c. Turned out these owners were running way too long pre-infusions and stalling the syphon.

Recommend you adjust your method and not exceed 10-12secs max pre-infusion time - that is - timing from the moment you release the lever. If you continue to experience syphon stall, bring your max pre-infusion time down even further. Long pre-infusions don't automatically mean better extractions, i.e. better tasting coffee. They can lead to unpleasant over extraction where bitter notes are accentuated.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Thank you @dfk41, @The Systemic Kid & @Stevebee for replying. Helps to get a better understanding of this, and I very much appreciate your knowledge & advice.?

Yes, gulp, I do preinfuse longer than most ?... and my timing is determined by the degree of coffee sweat I can see on the screen, but that can take ~20 seconds.

I have played with preinfusing with the lever down and with it up. I get the sweetest, best tasting, shots with a finer grind & a longer preinfusion, & long enough to completely saturate the puck. (No bitterness.)

L1 directions leave the lever down for 3 to 6 seconds, release & pull the shot. In my case, the puck is not fully saturated when the lever is down for 10 or even 15 seconds; visually it appears to be only partially wet, in that the screen is darkening just a bit with coffee from behind, but no sweat shows on the face of the screen; whereas, if I let the lever stay down for a short 3 or 4 seconds, then slowly raise the lever until I just reach the catch point, an even sweat starts to break across the screen, and then I wait until thick droplets form, then release, the shot really is divine. (I have tried grinding at coarser settings, but the shot is not as good.) And, if I release the lever before the sweat starts to form a thick droplet or two, I also don't feel the shot is as good.

As an experiment, I left a used coffee puck in the portafilter after pulling a shot, and then tried pulling numerous shots with it, one right after the other (used puck left in there), preinfusing for 3 or 6 seconds in the lever down position, and releasing fully. No stalls, no machine stopping dead in its tracks.

So, these long preinfusions of mine (esp. with lever in upper catch position) definitely mess up the system with air, and then the L1 stops dead. I can't figure out how to get rid of that air, fully, in between my shots. Perhaps there is no workable way to do so? ? I have tried getting rid of the air by running the hot water tap, releasing steam from the wand, flushing the grouphead, tried a quick flush, and also a long full pull flush. (The one thing I haven't tried is pulling a second shot into the just used portafilter-maybe a second pull after the shot would release air, before unlocking???‍♀)

And, what happens to that air bubble while the machine is off for a couple of hours? Does it just shift out of the way temporarily to a place in the boiler where it doesn't cause trouble, or has it completely dissipated during the cool down of the machine when it is turned off? I had also wondered if the heat build up accumulated in the machine, when it is on & sitting idle for several hours, could be a factor??


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Stevebee said:


> Is there any reason why you preinfuse at the upper catch point and not fully down? When it's fully down water enters at boiler pressure on top of the puck from the holes in the piston walls. When you release the lever the spring the extracts under it's pressure until it completes and covers the holes. Are you try to reduce the pressure the spring exerts over the shot?


 I presumed I would be getting a gentle pressure preinfusion with the lever down, followed by a slight increase in preinfusion pressure when I hold it at the catch point. Is there not a bit more pressure when the lever moves upward? (Have I got that backwards?)


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Seems to make sense. Sounds trickier to control and get consistancy so I'll stick to my boiler pressure preinfusion followed by lever/spring pressure.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

I've found my shots to be very consistent, but this technique is definitely quirky & less straight-forward.?

The one big drawback though remains. I haven't found a way to clear all the air out, not in the way that I can bleed the hot-water rads in my home.?‍♀?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

@Deirdre Reiss's recommendation for pre-infusing for 3-5 secs goes way back to the beginning of the L1 project. This was optimised for medium plus roasts with a dose of 15 grms. Reiss's business was originally a roastery and, at that time, was roasting slightly darker than medium. I used to get my beans from Reiss and stuck with the 3-5 sec pre-infusion and 15 grm doses getting pukka espresso.

Since then, things have moved along and lighter roasts have gained a strong following. Problem with making espresso from lighter roasts is that it will test the capabilities of the grinder used. Flat burrs are best for lighter roasts and the bigger the better to ensure good extraction in order to avoid sour tasting shots (under-extraction). As lighter roasts don't give up their soluble coffee solids as easily as darker roasts, the solution is to up the dose to 17-18grms. Wouldn't go higher with the original L1, say to 20grms. You still want to grind as fine as you can without resorting to uber long pre-infusion. Taste is the guide here. You want to unlock the beans sweetness to counteract the acidity characteristic of lighter roasts.

Regarding your question 'where does the air bubble go'? Purging the system will get rid of it but it can be a pain if you are having to do this on a regular basis. The principal of a syphon hot water system is gravity. Hot water is lighter and rises, as it cools it sinks. In a closed system, this principal can be harnessed to create a self sustaining cycle but it's super sensitive, in the case of the Londinium, to air getting into it and causing the cycling to stall.

As mentioned earlier, adjust your grind to bring down pre-infusion time to, ideally, not above 12 secs or whatever time causes the syphon to stall. Regard that as a given. To achieve good extraction, run the shot long - 1:2 or even a tad higher. So, for 18grms that would be 36 grms or 38grms out.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Deidre said:


> The one big drawback though remains. I haven't found a way to clear all the air out, not in the way that I can bleed the hot-water rads in my home.?‍♀?


 Think it was an oversight, Reiss didn't ship LIs with a radiatior bleed key - would have been much simpler.

To purge the air lock, you have to pull the lever several times and run quite a bit of water out of the group. Opening the hot water tap and letting that run too will help get rid of the air lock. Between each lever pull, wait until the operating temp is back to normal before pulling more water.


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

Reiss could not have imagined when he designed the L1, he would have such stubborn & quirky clients!?

I will follow your steps for the next round of shots, thank you. I will be over-the-top generous with the amount of water I run out between shots, to see if that conquers it. I can't pull any water out right now as the L1 has quit completely. Once it stalls, it just stops dead in it's tracks, and then I have to turn it off for a couple of hours, before it will kick in again & run.

*This part baffles me, too: why the air blockage seems to disappear when the machine is left "off" for a couple of hours?*?


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

I currently dose 15.70 grams (medium to medium-dark beans) & get ~25 grams out (less volume out with my longer preinfusions).

Will play around some more with all your helpful insights, and thank you.?


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## Deidre (Aug 13, 2019)

The Systemic Kid said:


> used to get my beans from Reiss and stuck with the 3-5 sec pre-infusion and 15 grm doses getting pukka espresso.


 Did you get a couple of drops forming on the screen with a 3 to 5 second preinfusion, or did you base it on the time alone, and not worry if any coffee sweat showed through the screen??


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

First drop in the cup would appear after 3-5 secs with full extraction complete in 25-30 secs.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Deidre said:


> I currently dose 15.70 grams (medium to medium-dark beans) & get ~25 grams out (less volume out with my longer preinfusions).


 Using medium to medium dark roasts, no way do you want to be running long pre-infusions to pull semi ristretto shots. They should be in the 5-6 sec range give or take to saturate the puck before releasing the lever.


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