# Need help deciding on new machine



## Danol (Apr 8, 2021)

Hi, been using the gaggia classic pro for a long time now, it's a love/hate relationship 😂

But it's time for an upgrade now, First I wanted the Rocket Espresso - Giotto Cronometro V, when I saw the crem one 2b dual, both seem great, both brands are known for quality and reliability, wich is important to me, both have great features, the cost exactly the same here, wich of the two should you buy, and why?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Dont touch the crem atm


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## Danol (Apr 8, 2021)

Hmm, why? It's really hard finding reviews of them, but on paper they look good


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Well,

My new crem one got boxed right up and sent back, theres 6 others i know of that have pump noise issues,

Crem are well aware of an issue with the machines also and have developed a 'fix'

Its a massive shame as they are amazing machines


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## danielpugh (Oct 26, 2016)

@Cuprajake had posted only a day or so ago - he had one, it had problems, he is not alone - similar reports via the reseller (they mentioned issues to me on a call). They also mentioned some significant issues with all the rockets and build quality (hence delivery policy). Their main feedback/recommendations were ECM or profitec (same company). I'd also recommend chatting with @BlackCatCoffeewho gave me some great advice.

I think initially an idea to work out what you want from the machine. Of the two one is HX, one is dual boiler - two different segments. I have found with my gaggia that the coffee is good, but the size is too small (physically moves when using portafilter), temp stability isn't great (without PID), and steam is lacking. Natural next step would be a HX (thereafter dual boiler or maybe lever). Limited benefit of PID (because of how HX works), but they are simple, reliable and have good steam. Something like the ECM mechanika perhaps, or the lelit marax (cheaper, very popular). Might be worth looking in classified ads - there is a nearly new izzo pid plus, or if feeling a little daring a londinium (lever machine)... 😉


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## Danol (Apr 8, 2021)

Well, since the gaggia I have now, can't even keep the temp up for a double espresso before the temp gets lower, that's why I want a pid machine, reliability, so be able to steam and brew at the same time , so hx/dual boiler doesn't really matter for how I use it, basically that's it, hence those two machines, but was considering the profitec pro 500 too, same price range , but the 500 didn't have the auto start shot timer, sure that's not a must have, but convenient,the pro 600 is 250$ more, not sure if it's worth it considering my needs , but now I'm leaning towards one of those instead , thank God for forums😂


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Over the years, folks have ranted about Rocket but I can never see why. The one I won in a raffle was a pile, badly made, the steam tap fell off after 2 days......best bet is as opposed to asking people on here what there thoughts are, ring a couple of retailers (not box shifters) and tell them what you require from a machine and see what they match you to.


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## Danol (Apr 8, 2021)

dfk41 said:


> Over the years, folks have ranted about Rocket but I can never see why. The one I won in a raffle was a pile, badly made, the steam tap fell off after 2 days......best bet is as opposed to asking people on here what there thoughts are, ring a couple of retailers (not box shifters) and tell them what you require from a machine and see what they match you to.


 Well, that's how I came up with the Giotto , crem, and profitec pro 500, according to two different retailers that have them, that was their recommendations, "they all fit your needs, even though they are diffent regarding the internals" but quality and reliability is at the top of my list


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It is a starting point then. A retailer will obviously try and sell you something that they have available, and who can blame them. Make your wish list. DO you need a dual boiler, pid etc etc. If you visit @Davecuk review site, and any of the machines you are considering are on his list at least you will be able to read a very detailed review from an independent source. That is important as it is easy sometimes to gloss over the not so good bits.

https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com


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## davril (Sep 17, 2012)

If build quality and reliability are top of your list then you should be looking at ECM and Izzo imo. Both companies bring machines to market then work to continually and incrementally upgrade them and iron out issues unlike some manufacturers who are just interested in getting their latest shiny box with new bells and whistle slapped on it in front of you.

I think Crem are owned by Expobar or vice versa and my experience with Expobar is they are made down to price. Not a machine I would recommend personally.

Rocket are a little better but you will be paying a chunk on top for their fancy branding. If you are comfortable with that then no problem. I believe they have some QC issues at the moment though.


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## Danol (Apr 8, 2021)

Well, something I didn't see coming happened 😂

Was travelling home from work, basically from one end of Sweden to the other end , on my way home I took a look in a store with everything coffee related, I bought a machine I had not even considered at first cause it was more expensive , but seeing it in person , trying it, tasting the espresso, fell in love with it there and then😂 sadly my car was full of gear from work, so they will send it to me, will get it some time next week, so now om the owner of a lelit bianca 2020 model


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## Bigbrownbear (Oct 7, 2020)

Hope the coffee is as good as she/ he / it looks!😉


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