# First Bean Change = utter chaos!!



## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Sorry another question from the freshman!

ok all as going well, have been producing nice 20 sec shots using some monsoon malabar beans, grinder seemed nicely dialled in and the Rancilio really impressing.

Until I switched to James Formula 6 this morning .... yikes!!!! :0/

Do new beans normally cause you to make such significant adjustments? Had to dial the grinder out a full 6 revs and still not quite right. Had to tamp way less than 30 lbs and the shot still not pouring right, and the waste, aargh. Finally poured a half decent shot but nothing like I was doing before the change.

does this sound normal guys? Any advice or tips for us newbies on bean changes, redialling and working with new beans would be VERY much appreciated.

The James beans are a much lighter roast and less oily, so if anything I would have thought I'd be dialling the Grinder in more not less?

anyway, hoping you can help.

Regards

Stuart


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Completely normal.

You mention the beans are lighter roasted and turning 6 revs out but what grinder are you using?

I moved almost a full macro setting (about 20 increments) on my Vario last week between 2 beans.

Usually it is 2-3 micro settings (very small increments)

Changing between beans required me to move back (easy to replicate with a Vario) to get the right extraction.


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Hi Glenn

im using an Ibertal MC2 which I've been very pleased with but obviously there's no scale on it so it's a bit of an art! Presumably it's worth keeping a note of the settings for particular beans? That wormscrew on the Ibertal turns forever lol


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Presuming your dosing the same each time ( measured with scales etc ) and you were dosing the same amount from the Malabar to the Gourmet.

When you move the dial , are you making sure you blow out a little of the older grinder each time ( or do you single dose ? )

Yes as Glenn says , new beans , dial in again .


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah, it's normal. The more you do it, the more you understand the grinder and the adjustments you are making and it will become a lot easier, honestly!

Occasionally you will get a bean that is way off, I have just made the biggest adjustment to my Hario I have in a couple of years to accommodate an Ethiopian natural from HasBean.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Some beans can be quite similar in grind requirement and may take little or if you are lucky no adjustment.

I noticed with putting MM recently through the SJ for the first time, that it required a much finer grind adjustment then any other bean......hence why you were having to adjust out so much.

I will be marking up my SJ collar specifically for MM for future reference


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

The mc2 is a bit of a nightmare grinder tbh. There isn't really much by way of visual reference for grind changes and the whose thing is mightily inconsistent anyway.

What I am trying to say here is that it will be much harder for you to get a feel for things with that grinder than it would if you had something that was consistent. If you've got £250 to spare, get a used Mazzer and sell the mc2.

Your coffee will improve immediately. (I had an mc2 for 9 years.....if only I'd known then what I know now)


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Adjustment on the MC2 can be several revolutions. When I had an MC2 it wasnt unusual to make 8 or 10 revolutions on the adjuster between beans

You will get a better feel for the adjustment after a couple of bean changes


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Cheers guys, it's the waste that's killing me !


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

As beans age, the grind normally needs to be tightened, which then means you have to loosen for a new bag.....but if you change for different beans with a different roast level it all goes to cock anyway as lighter beans usually need a finer grind and a longer pull to get the right flavour.

With the mc2 you never really know where you are in the grand scheme of things because of the lack of visual reference. As working dog says quite rightly the mc2 can need loads of turns to equal the sort of adjustment that would be 5mm on a Mazzer type collar.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

Expobarista said:


> With the mc2 you never really know where you are


Agreed:good:

I liked my mc2 but that worm drive adjustment was the main reason I upgraded.


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

I've only had the iberital 2 weeks and I'm thinking that way already


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

What mazzer exile you be recommending for 250, new or used, model etc


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

stuartmack1974 said:


> What mazzer exile you be recommending for 250, new or used, model etc


£250 won't get out any new mazzer , might get you a mini mazzer ( doser version ) . I think coffee chap has one.

Sj depends where you buy , people have had bargains can go anywhere from £200-£300 depending on age and who you buy if from


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

You ought to be able to pick up a used Mazz for £250. Go for a dosered one. The mini is great and won't dominate your kitchen.

As MrB says, coffee chap is the fount of all wisdom on buying used grinders, perhaps pm him.

Frankly, if you've got the cash to spare, go for it. Your coffee and coffee making experience will improve instantly.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

stuartmack1974 said:


> I've only had the iberital 2 weeks and I'm thinking that way already


Honestly, you will get it! I didn't have an MC2 but I had an Ascaso with worm drive and apart from the odd coffee I could pull a shot with a new coffee, see the result and then make the necessary adjustment and be pretty close on the subsequent shot. It just takes time and practice!


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes, but if he sticks with coffee he'll just end up buying a better grinder anyway.

Look at the kit list in yoursig line Aaron


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

yeah I know, but upgraditus after just 2 weeks is a bit much!

Although if OP can afford it by all means go for it


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Cant really afford it yet so may persevere for a while, but it is doing my swede in. I want to be drinking the stuff , not constantly grinding and wasting good coffe. But as you say its early days for me. The monsoon malabar i had was down pat, and some really nice shots coming. Its this James Forumla 6 thats thrown me!


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

You're going to get the same on a different grinder though, it may just have an easier adjustment mechanism to understand (like the Vario with it's steps). Dialling in when switching beans comes with the territory


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Fair point Aaron, just newbie blues i guess


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

The point is, on a mazz type grinder you can see what grind setting you are on. First pour too fast, you tighten accordingly, second pour too slow and you turn the collar accordingly back towards the first setting (that you can still see)

On an mc2 all you can do us try to count the amount of turns backwards and forwards you go. There really is no accurate visual reference. Two changes and you have absolutely no idea where you started off.

Why put yourself through this nonsense when we all know that within a few months you'll have realised this and upgraded.

It's not even as if learning on crap kit teaches you something that good kit doesn't. All you learn is that your kit is crap and you should have changed it earlier enabling you to get where you want to be without all the bullshit. There is no apprenticeship to be served first. Just get kit that works if you have the spare cash.


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

LOLOLOL ! Have to say the thought of arsing about with the MC2 constantly doesnt fill me with joy.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

9 fuken years I pissed about with one of those shitty things


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Expobarista said:


> 9 fuken years I pissed about with one of those shitty things


Why..............


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Why..............


He likes a challenge:rolleyes:


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Mrboots2u said:


> Why..............


All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

He must be a slow learner


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I like the look of that book , it's got an easy plot .....


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Expobarista said:


> The point is, on a mazz type grinder you can see what grind setting you are on. First pour too fast, you tighten accordingly, second pour too slow and you turn the collar accordingly back towards the first setting (that you can still see)
> 
> On an mc2 all you can do us try to count the amount of turns backwards and forwards you go. There really is no accurate visual reference. Two changes and you have absolutely no idea where you started off.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Fair Point


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Whats the mazzer Jolly like?


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

stuartmack1974 said:


> Whats the mazzer Jolly like?


What do you mean!!??

Its big and ugly!! Can make it less big and less ugly by removing hopper.

Grind quality is great especially for the money, less clumpy grinds than mignon.

The MSJ is a very popular step into commercial grinders


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Just to add to this - it's not the 2nd bean that you put through the grinder that threw it, it's the Monsoon Malabar.

MM is crazy - it needs a MUCH finer grinder than anything else I've ever tried. If you ground some other bean at the same grind level as MM then it would just choke your espresso machine (I'm guessing that this is what happened to you?)

When I had a Mazzer SJ I had to mark a specific grind point on the dial for MM - which was a huge way finer than anything else and it always felt a bit weird turning the dial THAT far!

Normally you can adapt for different beans quite easily and with relatively small adjustments on most grinders, but MM always needs a much much finer grind. If you try and grind MM at the same setting as just about anything else then you'll get a massive gusher.


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## stuartmack1974 (Jan 28, 2014)

Thats good to know MrShades and a few people have said that. Awesome bean though, loved it!


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

It is a great bean... I've got kilos and kilos of it in my store-room and will be back on it soon... but am on the last of my current batch of Java Jampit at the moment.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

kikapu said:


> Its big and ugly


Ugly is somewhat unfair..... it's like owning a piece of industrial art, admittedly a big piece.

Apparently some owners adore their SJ's more than their espresso machines


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## Geordie Boy (Nov 26, 2012)

MrShades said:


> Just to add to this - it's not the 2nd bean that you put through the grinder that threw it, it's the Monsoon Malabar.
> 
> MM is crazy - it needs a MUCH finer grinder than anything else I've ever tried. If you ground some other bean at the same grind level as MM then it would just choke your espresso machine (I'm guessing that this is what happened to you?)


When I had an MC2, MM was always difficult to grind as it needed to be really fine and the MC2 struggles with larger beans IMO. Always took ages to grind compared with everything else


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