# Help - My La Pavoni Europiccola has just arrived!



## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

My girlfriend bought me a new La Pavoni Europiccola for my birthday in a fortnight.

Please give me an excuse I can give her to start using it now!!!

On a serious note, I've read that tamp sizes have been changing between models and there seems to be huge variability online for which size to get. Is there a way to find out for certain which is current? Does anyone know?

Other than that...

- temp strips on their way.

- grinder on its way.

- Still looking for a set of scales

- still looking for a milk jug

- still looking for a bottomless portafilter

Think thats about it.

Anything else I need to start off on this journey?

Thanks.


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## Bigpikle

Not sure on PF size as mine is a 1975, but I'd recommend a tamping mat to save the work surface and make a good non-slip surface.

Scales that measure to 0.1g can be had for

Otherwise its well rested beans, so you'll need to get those ordered now or you will have to have supermarket crap which will make the machine even harder to get a good shot from, and some soft bottled water to avoid limescale build up from the start.


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Thanks

I'll look into those and ebay.

Theres a huge (and enjoyable) learning curve to this.

I've got 53 coffee related browser windows open for articles I'm reading and a notepad filling rapidly with key notes!

I just had to google what you mean by 'rested beans'.

So basically.... depending on bean & roast & way of making coffee, there is a resting period of 4hours to 10 days.

I definitely do want to go down the home roasting route for full control of the process, but that will be in time, once I'm confident with the basics.

With regards to water, when I lived in england I noticed a limescale issue and actually gave up drinking coffee as I did not like the taste from the water.

Now I've returned to Scotland, we have soft Scottish water here which has never resulted in any limescale issues.

I do filter my water with my brittas though which does make the water/coffee taste better, particularly by reducing the chlorine smell.

Hopefully I should be ok?


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## Bigpikle

I have uber hard water so only use bottled in the machines. I do however use a standard Brita jug filter for my ordinary kettle and despite what people say, it keeps it 99% scale free and needs a minor descale only perhaps once per year. I'm in an 'off the scale' water hardness area as well.

Beans from the typical roasters mentioned here certainly seems to need 4/5 days up to perhaps 7/10 days to get the best from them. I'd make sure you either ask here or direct to the roaster for their advice as otherwise you run the risk of getting strange results from the machine and not knowing of its your process or the beans.

Otherwise - enjoy, practise and remember to only change 1 thing at a time so you can nail down your process and identify what impact each change makes.


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## Phil A

Love to know how you are getting on! Tempted to follow your example, and get my hands of one of these - but a bit overawed by learning curve!!

Phil


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Hi

Unfortunately, its been a mad festive season this year and the pavoni is still in the box at home.

On my travels I've been relegated to taking my bialetti with me.

Looking forward to finally having the time to play.


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Happy New year to all.

Well I used my pavoni for the first time on the first of January.

As expected, the shots tasted terrible.

Not what the girlfriend who bought it for me wanted to hear.

Its a learning curve and a hobby to work on I explained.

Ok so let me take a step back and work through my process.

First I bought some beans from a local roasters.

Then I had some of that coffee at their own coffee shop.

I buy an espresso and a mocha for myself.

The espresso was good.

The mocha was the best I've ever had.

This gives me the baseline for what is possible from these beans.

As I was away from home over the festive period I decided to try the beans made the way I've been making my coffee at home for the last decade - with my bialetti.

The coffee was better than I've had with supermarket bought coffee, but not the very best I've had.

The first of January was the first time I was able to use la Pavoni.

I did not have the temp strips with me so I was temperature blind.

After bleeding the false pressure, I pulled the shot as soon as the temperature switch flipped off.

It wasn't that great. No crema. Ran through in 15 sec. Not a particularly pleasant taste.

I tried 2 more times. I adjusted the grind to make it finer. I got some crema. The taste was ok.

I tried making the frothy milk but it was useless. More practice needed!

2nd January

I attached a temp strip to the group head (I believe its called). It starts at 90C.

With the portafilter off, I would lift the handle up every so often to see what the temperature was. This took far longer to register on the thermometer than when I first poured the previous day.

However once it registered it shot up to 105C.

I pulled a shot and it was burnt and terrible.

I switched it off and applied a cool towel to the group head.

Once the temp cooled to 95C (about 10min) I tried to pour another shot but with the unit switched off, nothing came out.

I turned it back on and poured another shot but the temp registered 105C again instantly.

I then ended up having to go out and buy a cup of coffee.

3rd January

Searched forums & google for pavoni temperature control.

Going to experiment now with new found knowledge.

===

Greetings!

I am most gleeful at present - I think I have cracked it!

I am grinning ear to ear.

Could just be the caffeine!









OK

This is my current recipe&#8230;

1 - The Grind.

Porlex mini grinder.

I was so dubious about everyone writing how the grind affected the coffee, but you are all right! I played around with different settings. The finest setting on this grinder gave the best crema & taste.

13.5g in the double basket.

Steampunk velos espresso

http://www.steampunkcoffee.co.uk/product/zeppelin-espresso-blend-250g/

2 - The Tamp.

I prefer a light tamp.

3 - Temperature control on the Pavoni.

This needed a bit of experimentation and research.

What works for me is as follows:



2 temp strips. 60-90C and 90-120C on the group head


leave the machine on for 20 min to warm up from cold


pull some water through without the portafilter attached and check the temperature.


I find its about 95-105C so I apply a cold wet cloth over the group head until I get the temperature down to 80-85C. When I pull some water through at this stage it brings the reading up to 95C within seconds. (Cooling the group head to 90C raises the temp to 105C in seconds which results in a burnt tasting shot).


Attach portafilter and gradually pull up the lever. Hold at the top for 7-8 seconds, then gradually pull down over 25 seconds.


28 seconds later the last drip is coming out.

The glass is full of lovely crema.

When I tasted it&#8230;. it was unlike anything I have ever tasted before. So smooth and creamy. For the first time in my life, I didn't need sugar. It tasted just amazing straight.

So my 7th shot was almost perfect, with just the adjustment to the grind fineness for the perfect 8th.

I still can't get over that 8th shot.

Its unlike anything I have ever had before. How to explain it? The feel was so creamy and smooth. The flavour more delicate and less harsh, bitter, etc.

What next?

Buy more coffee!!!

Ensure I can consistently pull a great shot.

I drink skimmed milk, but I'm having difficulty frothing it up for a cappuccino. I just end up with warm milk with a clump of froth at the top. More research & experimentation needed!

Finally...

I'd just like to offer my thanks to people on this forum (and on the internet in general) for writing about their experiences with their pavoni which, with a bit of research, has allowed me to have the most amazing espresso of my life on only my 8th attempt.

Cheers!


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## xtrashot7

Great to hear all this. I'm in the verge of taking the plunge myself but my pockets aren't deep enough following Xmas. I'm hoping someone will want to offload one that's fully functioning.

Well done with your research. What are temp strips and why do you need them? I want to know the ins and outs before I leap!


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## Bigpikle

they are necessary because temp control is a big challenge with these machines. If left to their own devices its very easy to end up pulling shots they are much too cold or after a little while, much too hot, and the results will be terrible. The key skill of using these machines is creating a consistent technique all the way from grinding to pulling the shot and a big part of that is the temp when you pull the shot - the temp strips or a thermocouple attached to the machine are the only ways to do this otherwise you are always guessing and will be wasting 75% of your coffee...

If you are looking at buying one of these machines then go in with your eyes open and read everything you can about whats involved in mastering one, as they are not forgiving or easy machines to use compared to something like the typical starter machines like a Gaggia Classic. They are funa dn rewarding but only go there if you are happy to climb a steep learning curve and even then accept that you'll still mess it up frequently....


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## xtrashot7

I'm very tempted. I can't justify the price if a new one following a very expensive Xmas period but I'm certainly keeping an eye out for a bargain. I've watched a few videos on them but the one thing that confuses me is when to pull the shot. I'm also undecided if I should go for one with the thermostat on or one without but the latter just seems like your playing a big guessing game.


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## coffeechap

I will have a couple of these coming up very soon


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Good info from bigpikle!

Do you have a shop coffeechap?

I bought these two.

http://www.colourchanging.co.uk/around-the-home/food-drink/milk-frothing-barista-coffee-thermometer-2-pk-/prod_309.html

http://www.colourchanging.co.uk/thermometers/digitemp-7-level-dual-scale/90-120a-c-liquid-crystal-thermometers/prod_177.html

Attached both ranges to the group head. (At the side closest to the wall so they are out of sight and don't spoil the looks of the machine.)

With regards to the pressure gauge on the pro model, I understand there are mods available to attach a pressure gauge to the euripiccola and that its pretty cheap to do. Google for details.

There's no denying that this is a difficult machine.

I researched it for weeks and knew that like me, it's a pernickety b*****d!

The girlfriend was horrified that all my shots of coffee tasted disgusting, yet I was grinning away thoroughly enjoying the challenge and experimentation.

But when I got it right, the coffee transformed into something incredible. A taste experience I've never had before.

But today, I tried different beans. 3 successive shots were disgusting.

In the first I tamped incorrectly producing a lopsided pour & puck.

Then... I don't know...

I got the rich smooth crema in the next shots.

But the taste was terribly bitter.

Did I do something wrong?

Do the beans need a cooler water temp?

Do I need to pay with the tamp, weight of beans, grind etc?

Or do I simply dislike those beans?

I just don't know.

But I do have about 200g worth of those beans to play around with!

And new beans arriving hopefully tomorrow. I think that I need to establish a standard house blend/bean and then have others to experiment with to help identify my tastes in coffee.

Additionally I'm still researching how to try to get the milk right. That's still proving to be a shambles. I bought a 600ml jug which is far too big for 1 cups worth of milk and the wand can't reach down into the milk.

Oops!

So I'm using an old 300ml jug in the mean time but without a temp strip attached. Flying blind is not good!

This machine is undeniably going to be a constant challenge. But I find that fun.

If that's not for you then I've read the gaggia Classic is a good way to get consistently good shots. But as my girlfriend says.... my coffee machine is "really pretty"!


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Hello,

Well after another 3 experimental shots today I'm changing my mind

With the temp strips attached its easy to control the Pavoni's temperature with a cold damp cloth and once it hits 80-85C quickly add in your portafilter and pull the shot. Wait too long and the temp strips read up to 105 whilst you are pouring and it results in burnt smelling coffee.

After temperature control, what subsequently makes all the difference to the resultant shot, taking it from utterly vile to amazing, is the beans and being able to adjust them.

Yesterday, I tried new beans which were disgusting. (Note that I am very black or white in my tastes!)

So todays experiments were to see how grind fineness and weight of beans affected the result.

1 - at 2 notches down from the finest setting and 16g the shot poured through in 15 seconds and was vile.

2 - 12g at finest setting = 16 seconds = less bright, little crema, less bitter.

3 - 16g at finest setting = 39 seconds = more bland but still not smooth or nice

Conclusion

Huge swings in flavour possible by adjusting grind and weight of beans.

The grinder is an incredibly important part of the equation.

With temperature strips you have consistency with the pavoni.

So, my usual 13.5g at the finest setting over 25-30 seconds was roughly appropriate for this bean. However, the light roasted bean itself, I gather from my research, would probably be better for a different way of making coffee. With a much better grinder, it may have been possible to get a better shot.


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## MartinB

So I arrive at work this morning - sit down and open up my emails... A friend has emailed me asking if i'm interested in a Europiccola that a lady at his work is selling over in Cambridge.

It was a no-brainer, considering the price. She's not in today so i'm playing the waiting game and trying not to get excited. Looking forward to the learning curve if so!


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Congrats and good luck.

It will be interesting to hear how you get on with it!


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## Mrboots2u

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> Hello,
> 
> However, the light roasted bean itself, I gather from my research, would probably be better for a different way of making coffee. With a much better grinder, it may have been possible to get a better shot.


There isn't any real reason why a La Pav shouldn't be able to make tasty drinks from lighter roasted beans

1- A Decent grind consistency , 2 -appropriate brew ratio and 3 -consistent temp to match and away you go...

The lack of 1 in your case ( and the ability to vary the grind enough ) is whats it holding back your extractions of any bean ( light , medium or dark )

Its a machine , putting water through a coffee puck at pressure , just in a different way to a pump or other level ... It can't tell if you using a light dark , medium or green bean ....


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Hi Boots.

From my further research and the advice here it seems the grinder and my stumblingly random choice of coffees are whats contributing to the bad series of shots.

My bean journey is as follows...

Batch 1

Steampunk

Velos espresso Blend - Within a few days I was able to get consistently amazing espressos - until it ran out

Yanalana - Bolivia - not for espresso - very acidic,

Karugiro - Kenya - not for espresso - very acidic

Batch 2

HasBean

Brazil Fazenda Cachoeira da Grama Yellow Bourbon Pulped Natural - Roasted Whole Beans 250g

Guatemala Finca San Sebastian Pulped Natural Bourbon - Roasted Whole Beans 250g

Guatemala Finca San Sebastian Washed Bourbon - Roasted Whole Beans 250g

Guatemalans have undrinkable and unmaskable levels of acidity I've actually placed them in the freezer with a view to experimenting on them once I get another grinder.

Brazil - nutty but also acidic but not as bad and can be drank with milk.

I then decided to stick to espresso blends rather than single origins believing they may be better suited and more forgiving of the grinder. Based on recommendations from a member here, I went with rave and bought

Batch 3

Rave

Sparkling Water Decaf Blend - 250g / Whole Bean

Signature blend

The italian Job

Mocha Java Blend

Raves Roast date was the 15th so I am still waiting for these beans to rest.

One of the nicest coffees I ever had was a sumatran lintong or mandheling. I now understand that they tend to be rich and smooth, so perhaps that identifies the type of taste I'm after. Once i get things on track again, I'll look to find one and see what the pavoni makes of it.


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## Mrboots2u

There is a a lot of info on here , so ill ask rather than re read everything over again .

I can see your weighing your dose , your weighing out extraction also ..

I can see you monitoring extraction temp. Are you also changing the brew ratio ( coffee in to coffee out ) for different beans ( especially if unbalanced )

Lastly are you brewing or cupping your beans prior to espresso extraction so you know what they are capable of and therfore what potential effect the barista and equipment are having on them ......


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

Hi boots.

thanks for trying to help.

Brew Ratios..

For the last week I've been dividing each pull into 3 main shots.

Sometimes I've timed it, e.g. first 10 or 15 or 20 seconds into one followed by 5-10 seconds into the other 2. Total extraction times ranging from 15 seconds in the worst channelling case to 45 seconds with a median around 25-30 seconds.

Sometimes I go by volume with each glass adding gathering around a 1:1 ratio.

Sometimes I go by colour and texture. Dark frothiest, pale froth moving to tan liquid, and thirdly, tan liquid.

I then weigh each shot, sample each shot, then blend shots 1&2 and sometimes 1&2&3 to find the balance of flavours that work best.

i.e. sometimes pulling longer to blend parts 1, 2 and 3 can help subdue the acidity, whereas pushing it to a 1:4 will take me into the realms of bland, watery nonsense.

I also spent a day skipping the first 1-2 seconds of the extraction and taking centre cut shots.

This did mitigate some of the acidity but it felt a stop-gap measure to getting the full shot right.

As for brewing/cupping, I'm afraid I do not know anything about this. do you have any links to instructions on how to do this?

Cheers


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## MWJB

PreCoffeeCantakeroussness, more people might respond to your posts if they could quote some of the issues you have & deal with specific points, however we get a lot of superfluous font info when we try...making I difficult to wade through.

The unmasked acidity & general comments about acidity suggest that you are underextracting many of these beans. As Boots says, changing your brew ratio (longer shots) may help. Beans only produce acidic coffee when we extract them, those same beans can be sweet & balanced in different circumstances, concentrate on one bean at a time & change one parameter at a time (you're limited by grind, so brew ratio is the most obvious)...probably best to avoid beans that are not recommended for espresso.

A blend is just a bunch of single origins mixed together.


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## MWJB

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> As for brewing/cupping, I'm afraid I do not know anything about this. do you have any links to instructions on how to do this? Cheers


Get a 3 cup (usually the smallest size) glass French press/cafetiere, grind 16g of beans. Add 300g of water 1 minute off the boil. Pour in the water so that all the grinds are wetted in the pour, don't touch them again. Cover & leave for 20minutes, keep the plunger off the grinds. At 20 minutes pour off a shot glass's worth of coffee, this will get rid of the oilier parts. Place the lid & plunger back in the pot but don't press the plunger down, just hold it above the coffee & pour out the coffee in a careful & smooth pour making sure not to kick up the grinds at the bottom. Taste it as it cools...if it's too bitty try filtering it, but with a Porlex set around 3 it should be pretty clear, just a very light dusting in the bottom of the cup.

If you only have a bigger pot, brew to that pot's volume (it'll be a fair workout with a Porlex) and keep to the same ratio of grinds to water, you can do this with any beans pretty much the day you receive them (24 hours after roasting).


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## MWJB

PreCoffeeCantankerousness said:


> I then weigh each shot, sample each shot, then blend shots 1&2 and sometimes 1&2&3 to find the balance of flavours that work best.
> 
> i.e. sometimes pulling longer to blend parts 1, 2 and 3 can help subdue the acidity, whereas pushing it to a 1:4 will take me into the realms of bland, watery nonsense.
> 
> Cheers


Whilst I suggested going longer on ratio to tame the acidic taste, if you can't easily do this, or if you do & the drink is too weak, go shorter ...12.5g, or as much as you can realistically get in the basket to the same weight out of the PF...there is a point just below very acidic extraction where the taste can be smoother, but a little generic, this might actually be an easier target for you?


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

MWJB said:


> PreCoffeeCantakeroussness, more people might respond to your posts if they could quote some of the issues you have & deal with specific points, however we get a lot of superfluous font info when we try...making I difficult to wade through.


Hi MWJB

I dont understand whats wrong with the fonts. Everything looks fine to me in both safari and firefox.

Is there a site admin who can try to identify what problem you are having?

Just my posts?


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## PreCoffeeCantankerousness

With regards to adjusting each parameter, if you take a look at this thread I made the other day, it will show you how I go about researching, designing and conducting experiments and then using the results to feed into the next days experiments.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?21368-Single-origin-issues

Your suggestion on how to tame the acidity and the consequences of doing so mirror my findings in the thread above. My conclusions therefore were that for certain beans that had a tendency towards acidity, a finer grind than I was able to achieve was necessary.

My 12 cup cafetiere is in a sorry state with pieces appropriated for other projects. I'll look into this cupping method you mentioned. There is actually a post on it in this forums wiki section.

Thanks


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