# Brewing with water just off boil



## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Anyone experimented with this? Matt Perger is advocating brewing with water immediately after boiling in his Barista Hustle blog.

I find it works OK with immersion when pouring the water into the brewer then adding the coffee - but obviously the water has cooled a good deal by this point.

I've tried a couple of pourovers as suggested with water straight off the boil but they were rank rotten. In the Brazen the highest temp i've brewed anything drinkable was 206F. North of this it tastes really bad.

I get the feeling i must be missing something (or why else would he recommend it?).


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Hotter the better for full immersion/cupping but like yourself haven't enjoyed coffee when pour over at such high temps.


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I use a CCD and Aeropress with water just off the boil, its the only way I can minimise temperature variable as I know by the time the water leaves the kettle and hits the coffee its about 96deg and by the time I finish pouring its 93deg, dropping quickly to 88deg where the rate it cools slows down .. the difference between first contact being 96deg and 90 deg I dont notice ... lower than 90deg and I need to brew for longer


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Manual drip brewing with water at a rolling boil has been recommended since the 60's. Turkish coffee typicaly hits a boil.

I guess if you find it doesn't work for you, adjust to taste. Ultimately, we're more concerned with slurry temp & there may be factors that cause a little margin for error (brewer material, propensity for heat loss, etc.). For my steel Columbia French press it takes more time for the water temp to drop, so I leave that a little longer than a single wall glass press.

For manual drip, I just do everything the same (always boil the same amount of water, start timer at boil click off, preheat pouring kettle & discard, start pouring at 1:00 off boil)...I don't bother measuring temp any more.

206F is 97C, the Brazen must keep a good thermal inertia, maybe it's just more feasible that you can overheat the slurry with it?


----------



## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> For manual drip, I just do everything the same (always boil the same amount of water, start timer at boil click off, preheat pouring kettle & discard, start pouring at 1:00 off boil)...I don't bother measuring temp any more.
> 
> 206F is 97C, the Brazen must keep a good thermal inertia, maybe t's just more feasible that you can overheat the slurry with it?


Have you ever tried manual drip straight off the boil a la Perger rather than waiting 1min? I tried it with a manual chemex some time ago (i think he's been advocating this for a while).

I would imagine the Brazen keeps temp well although the slurry is bound to be a little cooler than the water. I'd think that slurry temp would be higher than a manual pourover where more heat will escape to the surrounding air. There is very little distance for the water to travel to hit the coffee and its sealed. I find anything higher than 204F in the Brazen to be sub optimal (to my taste).


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

garydyke1 said:


> Hotter the better for full immersion/cupping but like yourself haven't enjoyed coffee when pour over at such high temps.


Plus one


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Step21 said:


> Have you ever tried manual drip straight off the boil a la Perger rather than waiting 1min? I tried it with a manual chemex some time ago (i think he's been advocating this for a while).


Not that I can recall, I heat the water in one kettle, then pour with another these days. But, I rarely use a Chemex, usually plastic (rather than glass/ceramic) V60/Hario Cafeor.

Scott Rao, @garydyke1, as well as others, have commented on increased perceived acidity at higher brew temps. When steam is passed through coffee things can go really awry. The CBI & Rao also factored in a drop in temp between brew water temp & slurry temp.

Did you observe any difference in EY with the hotter, less tasty brews? (Not suggesting that you would necessarily do so, just interested)


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Gary **** mentioned alongside Scott Rao! What praise!


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> Gary **** mentioned alongside Scott Rao! What praise!


Only in the context of stark contrast


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

I did use 1min off boil as MWJB suggested. Then I bought a smart kettle, purely to minimise the 'faff' of pouring from one kettle into another.


----------



## tambu (Sep 7, 2015)

Was Matt Perger's Brewer's Cup win in Denver?









On a more serious note, he might be talking about water off the boil going straight into a pouring kettle, which would drop the temp a fair bit. He's more about temp consistency than the actual temp of the water I think. The water cools down scarily quickly in an uncovered slurry though (Scott Rao's book has some nice pictures). I imagine the lack of evaporation with the Brazen will really keep the temp up?


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I tend to use water just off the boil when I'm at work for the aeropress. Seems to work well for me. The fact that I haven't a huge amount of time and I'm impatient is another factor as to why I do it.


----------



## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

MWJB said:


> Did you observe any difference in EY with the hotter, less tasty brews? (Not suggesting that you would necessarily do so, just interested)


I don't have any recorded readings for these brews. I think my record keeping falls well below your high standards!

My recorded experience with the Brazen (certainly between 201 - 205F, so about 2 degrees C) is that the temp doesn't make a significant difference to TDS - all other factors being equal.

I quite often use the Brazen as a kettle to dispense water over an immersion and do find a significant difference tastewise between 208 and 210F (1 degree). 210F (98.889 degrees) just doesn't taste good to me (when poured over the coffee). 208F is my default for this type of brew.

The consensus seems to be that very high temps don't make good pour overs.


----------



## IggyK (May 13, 2017)

What would temperature readings be 1 minute off the boil has anybody measured it? Not transferring just using gooseneck kettle.


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

IggyK said:


> What would temperature readings be 1 minute off the boil has anybody measured it? Not transferring just using gooseneck kettle.


It won't be much in terms of a drop, but it doesn't really matter because even if you start to pour/bloom as soon as the kettle clicks off, your brew slurry won't be much over 90C.

The only brews where I have found I prefer to let the water cool for a minute or so, are big Chemex brews where silt in the brew can be an issue. Otherwise, the challenge Is normally to keep the water hot enough for most manual methods.


----------



## espressotechno (Apr 11, 2011)

A pourover filter machine such as a Technivorm Moccaserver delivers the water into the filter cone at approx. 97 degrees.

The heated water leaves the flash boiler at 100 degrees, but cools down during its passage up & over to the brew head.

Ditto for Bravilors, Marco, etc pourover machines with flash boilers.


----------



## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Maybe wait a while till he changes his mind and apologies like with the nutation technique


----------



## Step21 (Oct 2, 2014)

Using the Brewista kettle set at 98c, I can get good drip brews at this temp.

Immediate bloom at 98c then first pour after 60 secs tends to give brews much nearer the tasting notes I find and I generally prefer this.

If I reheat to 98c just before first pour it seems to give a brew that is perfectly pleasant but maybe changes the acidity? Quite noticeable with the recent LSOL. I actually preferred the acidity on this one at the higher temp even if it didn't hit the tasting notes.


----------

