# Fracino Heavenly



## totallywired (Jun 25, 2011)

Are they any good? Thinking of moving up from my classic. Worth the extra cash?

Cheers

Dan


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

I like them and yes it is a worthy upgrade from the Classic, do also consider the Piccino which is a dual boiler machine from Fracino oriented to the domestic market. One of my good friends has bought one in the past week and is very pleased with his upgrade from a Gaggia Baby Dose.


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## totallywired (Jun 25, 2011)

So is the Heavenly aimed for the commercial market? Whats the difference?


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## DonRJ (Apr 3, 2010)

Heavenly has a much bigger boiler and works on the heat exchanger principle so you can brew and steam simultaneously. The Piccino has two small boilers, so again you can brew and steam simultaneously. The Heavenly is aimed at the lower volume commercial market but is used at home by a number of people. My only issue for home use is the fact that you will use more energy to heat the machine and it has quite a big footprint on the worktop. Not that I would kick either machine off my worktop.

Heavenly 390 x 510 mm footprint 2850w element heating 2.3 litres of water

Piccino 250 x 315 mm footprint and 2 x 1100w elements heating 630ml of water


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## totallywired (Jun 25, 2011)

Great info! Thanks DonRJ.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

I find the Piccino to be pretty good. Its small, but knocks out consistently good shots. Steam is plentiful and i achieve good microfoam. I did have to replace the dispersion screen, because it was poorly machined, but Fracino sent it out for free (came next day!). That's one point worth mentioning - they offer superb customer service. They respond to all queries, fix any issues quickly. Last time i bought a new brita filter, i got a phone call to make sure it arrived ok lol.

Only bad point on the piccino is that temperature control isn't really in the user's hands, which might be better with the HX machine. They said they're planning on adding a PID to the piccino one day, but that was back in June.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Also worth considering is the Cherub which is also made by Fracino. The Cherub is exactly the same price as the Heavenly and is essentially the same machine but looks different, and has a slightly smaller water tank. All the other internal components e.g. boiler, brew group, etc. are identical except that the hot water tap comes as standard on the Cherub and is an optional extra on the Heavenly. Due to the smaller water tank and the casing design differences, it is a bit smaller than the Heavenly if size is a concern. The Cherub's dimensions are as follows:

340 x 480 x 364


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I don't have a previous machine to compare it to but I really like my Piccino. They have a prototype with a PID a the factory but have no plans to produce it. They don't think enough people are willing to pay the extra £100 it would add to the machine's cost. Size and running cost considerations drove me to the Piccino; I was originally thinking about getting a Cherub. Fracino's service is exemplary & they're really local to me which made buying off them a no brainer for me.


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

AlIam said:


> I don't have a previous machine to compare it to but I really like my Piccino. They have a prototype with a PID a the factory but have no plans to produce it. They don't think enough people are willing to pay the extra £100 it would add to the machine's cost. Size and running cost considerations drove me to the Piccino; I was originally thinking about getting a Cherub. Fracino's service is exemplary & they're really local to me which made buying off them a no brainer for me.


That's a shame, as it would make the piccino so much better, possible on par with some far more expensive machines. They should at least make it so that it can easily take an aftermarket one, or make it an optional extra


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## Franzpan (May 11, 2010)

I have a Heavenly and im pretty pleased with it. Its a bit unrefined compared to the likes of the izzo alex or other 'prosumer' machines but I got it for £250 second hand and it hasnt missed a beat. One of the downsides to it was the 2.8kw of leccy it required but the bigger cappacity heating element needs to be on less time to heat the water than a smaller capacity element. I haven't completely mastered espresso from it, mostly because I havent devoted enough time to it. I think once I get my own house I'll upgrade to a snazzy Alex but the Heavenly is fine for now.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I received by Cherub earlier this week after posting my previous response. I upgraded from a Gaggia Baby Class which has very similar internals to the Classic. Whilst I was thinking of upgrading I considered the Silvia, Piccino, Cherub and a number of others. I ruled out most of the other prosumer machines from Izzo, Isomac, etc. as they only seemed to offer single boiler machines within my budget. I ruled out the Silvia for not being sufficiently different to justify the upgrade. This left the Piccino and the Cherub (I had decided that the Heavenly was too big and plus my wife preferred the look of the Cherub).

I was concerned about flushing the heat exchanger on the Cherub but then realised that even double boiler machines like the Piccino require flushing (although this is to warm the group with double boilers rather than purge overheated water with HX). I also liked the fact that the Cherub has a hot water tap on its steam boiler which will make descaling more straight forward. I was a bit worried that the Cherub would look too big and out of place on the worktop but then realised that quite a large part of its published dimensions are actually made up by the drip tray and the body of the machine is somewhat smaller.

Since receiving the machine I have been really happy with it. It is so much more forgiving and consistent than the Gaggia. I think this might be due the thermosyphonic group head but need to experiment more before I can say for sure. The pour is noticeably much smoother than the Gaggia too - better rat's tails from the portafilter spouts.

One quibble is that the drip tray is incredibly small and awkward to get in and out (especially when full of water). It is also rather noisey - the pump is louder than the Gaggia's and you also get an audible click when the pressure stat kicks in and you can hear the water heating whilst the element is active.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I could be wrong about this but I don't believe the Piccino needs flushing to heat the group (unless you want to use a cold machine asap). Certainly the group is burning hot after the machine has been on for 1/2 an hour.


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## Franzpan (May 11, 2010)

The drip tray on the Heavenly is ridiculously small too. This machine is marketed as a light comercial machine but there is no way this drip tray would suffice in a comercial environment, not unless you where able to plump it in to a drain or something. I find I need to empty it twice during a backflush routine. Its a major design flaw, it makes me mad. Like, did they not run an espresso through this machine before they finalised the design? as after my first espresso I realised it was a problem. I agree the pump is noisey too, dosent bother me overly much on a day to day basis but it does make me save the pennys for a fancy rotary pump machine.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

AlIam said:


> I could be wrong about this but I don't believe the Piccino needs flushing to heat the group (unless you want to use a cold machine asap). Certainly the group is burning hot after the machine has been on for 1/2 an hour.


I found with my Gaggia (although it was only a single boiler machine) that although the group was bolted directly onto the boiler for passive heating, it was a fair bit cooler than the brew water. I would imagine any water in the lines between the boiler and the shower screen would cool over time although I am not sure how much water this actually amounts to. For me, flushing had two purposes on my Gaggia: firstly to ensure the group was up to temperature and that the water I would use to brew with was all freshly heated and secondly to trick the boiler thermostat into heating the boiler (temperature surfing).


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

Ok that makes sense. It sounded like a twin boiler specific flaw rather than a non-hx thing. I'll try drawing a few shots of water through the pre-heated machine and see if they come out at similar temperatures.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

So, My machine's been switched on for hours so it's fully up to heat. I filled 4 espresso cups with hot water to heat them then emptied one and drew ≈ 2oz of water into it through the portafilter and stuck the thermometer in it. Then I repeated with the second cup as quick as I could, then third, then fourth.

Readings I got were 73.1˚C, 73.0˚C,70.8˚C,69.6˚C. So presumably the boiler had refilled between shots but the element hadn't turned on. 1st shot being as hot as the 2nd suggests there's no reason to drawing a 'heating' flush through this machine at least.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Does anyone know how much it cost to keep the Piccino running during the day...And do people keep them running or turn them off?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

AlIam said:


> I don't have a previous machine to compare it to but I really like my Piccino. They have a prototype with a PID a the factory but have no plans to produce it. They don't think enough people are willing to pay the extra £100 it would add to the machine's cost. Size and running cost considerations drove me to the Piccino; I was originally thinking about getting a Cherub. Fracino's service is exemplary & they're really local to me which made buying off them a no brainer for me.


AlIam could you give more details of the Piccino with PID? Do you know who at Fracino would be a good contact to ask about PID installation on a Piccino? I already have a PID kit and if I could bodge it onto a Piccino, I'd be sold on that machine.


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I spoke to John Cook by email and he told they had no plans to include add a PID to the Piccino due to space considerations. After I'd purchased my machine, I had a minor issue (dodgy thermostat) with it and Adrian Maxwell (the MD), showed me around the factory & let me play with stuff whilst it was being fixed. He said they had made a prototype - I didn't see it - but had decided to only produce 1 version & reckoned the cheaper one would sell better.

The thermostat screws in place . One of the auber ones looked like it would easily replace it. I guess installing a PID within the machine's body might be problematic but an external controller ought be simple to fit I think.

I'd try emailing Adrian were I you. ([email protected]) He's always replied promptly to me. I never quite understood why I was dealing with the MD having a glitch fixed; he seems really hands on and I reckon he will pass your enquiry in the right direction if he doesn't deal with it himself.

This is the kit I suspect (based on nothing at all) would fit & work with a Piccino. http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=32


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

AlIam said:


> I spoke to John Cook by email and he told they had no plans to include add a PID to the Piccino due to space considerations. After I'd purchased my machine, I had a minor issue (dodgy thermostat) with it and Adrian Maxwell (the MD), showed me around the factory & let me play with stuff whilst it was being fixed. He said they had made a prototype - I didn't see it - but had decided to only produce 1 version & reckoned the cheaper one would sell better.
> 
> The thermostat screws in place . One of the auber ones looked like it would easily replace it. I guess installing a PID within the machine's body might be problematic but an external controller ought be simple to fit I think.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that response AlIam, with this being an oldish thread I wondered if you'd find my post. I'm going to try and have a chat with someone at Fracino on Monday before ultimately making my decision on which machine, Cherub or Piccino.

I've actually found the Cherub at £650 delivered which must make it the cheapest HXer machine bar the NS Oscar (which doesn't have e61). What really sells me on the Cherub is the E61 style group head and thermal stability.

Based on your experiences with the Piccino, what would you say about thermal stability and shot consistency when making espresso (not too bothered about steaming performance between the two machines).


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## AlIam (Aug 30, 2011)

I haven't really got anything else to compare against. It's my first proper machine. Shot consistency seems good to me. If I pulled 3 shots in a row, I doubt I'd be able to tell them apart (probably as much an indictment of me as a recommendation). There seems to be a lot of hot metal that the portafilter attaches to. Which I imagine means that fluctuating boiler temps don't matter so much. Basically, I have no real idea what I'm doing & it produces muuuch nicer espresso that I'd expect to get from a coffee shop. So I'm chuffed.

I was also looking at the Cherub (or was it the Heavenly I can never remember which is which) & trying to guess which suited my needs better and trying to figure out how to sell the expenditure to the wife. She told me I was getting the one with the smaller footprint that came in custom colours.


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