# Used Gaggia Classic or new Sage DTP



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

Hi all,

Looking at all the various ways I can lighten my wallet with the multitude of options available I'm a bit overwhelmed with the choices out there.

I've not got a massive budget (sub £500) and I keep reading how important the grinder is so want to get that sorted first. It looks like the best "budget" option is the Iberital MC2 but this seems to vary in its output so I'm concerned it may give me too much to think about at this stage.

The other two grinders that seem to be most recommended are the Mazzer Super Jolly (out of my reach price wise) and the Eureka Mignon Mk2. There don't seem to many of these coming up on eBay, but I'm happy to wait a bit. So it looks like the Mignon Mk2 for my grinder if I can get one. Some people talk about the Graef CM80 though - this seems available for a decent price too but doesn't get as much praise as the Mignon for example.

For the espresso machine, I'm weighing up saving some pounds by buying a second hand (old version) Gaggia Classic, against the option of buying brand new with the Sage DTP (from Lakeland). But I don't know if it is cost effective.

I understand that it's better to have an un pressurised portafilter for espresso which I think makes the Sage a better option, though I gather that you can mod the Gaggia for the same? Similarly with the PID, which the Sage has, but is another mod on the Gaggia. And because the wife likes lattes and capuccinis I would like a decent frother, which again I believe the Sage wins out on without a mod to the Gaggia.

I've got no problem buying used, but it seems that a used Gaggia Classic in good condition, with a new frothing arm, portafilter and PID would work out more than a new Sage DTP. But if the Gaggia will produce a better coffee then I'd happily go that route.

All feedback, comments, suggestions are welcome. I'm an almost complete newbie, so please don't assume I know anything!









Thanks all.


----------



## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

The gaggia comes with pressurised and unpressurised baskets. you just throw away the pressurised ones, it's not a mod


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

The PID isnt essential. The new wand is £15. I love my classic. I'd go for the classic and a decent grinder and dont worry about the PID yet.

Edited to add, you can get a classic for under £100


----------



## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

My choice would be a second hand Classic from these forums, and it'd probably come with the modded steam arm and pressure already set at 9bar, so you'd be ready to go. Then pair it with a Mazzer Super Jolly and you'd still have left over cash for tamper, scales and timer.

Jobs a goodun


----------



## Toby-IOM (Aug 8, 2012)

If you keep your eye on the forums, you should easily be able to afford both the Classic and a Mazzer SJ with your budget.

It seems to be the go too choice on here which speaks volumes about the performance.

I'm halfway there with the Classic with wand mod. Just need tp pony up the pennies for an SJ now.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Jason1wood said:


> My choice would be a second hand Classic from these forums, and it'd probably come with the modded steam arm and pressure already set at 9bar, so you'd be ready to go. Then pair it with a Mazzer Super Jolly and you'd still have left over cash for tamper, scales and timer.
> 
> Jobs a goodun


I decided a classic was likely an easier fixer upper than a dodgy grinder, which is why I went for local classic and forum grinder. The OPV and steam arm mods are free/cheap. But my budget was lower. With yours you can get a well cared for classic!


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

If you want something that you have to learn to get the best from, then save some cash and buy a used Classic.

If you want something that will be producing good espresso with no hassle, straight out of the box, then buy a Sage Duo.

Both a good options when paired with a decent grinder. The Classic might just take a bit more effort.


----------



## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

I was in your position a while back and bought a Sage DTP and a Graef CM 800. I'm happy with the combination and happy with the coffee it makes. The wife can use it without problems and milky drinks are great with plenty of steam.

The Graef CM800 is the cheapest motorized grinder you can buy new that most people here think is acceptable for espresso. It is small, decent looking, not too noisy. At £130 , it shouldn't be compared to a Mignon since those are more expensive used and way more new. Of course the Mignon is a better grinder and now I wish I had bought one instead of the Graef. Not because there's anything that's wrong with the Graef, I've just been convinced by this forum that the Mignon would be better.

Personally, I think the Sage DTP is a far better machine than a used classic but of course the classic is cheaper. Really what it comes down to is whether or not you want your new hobby to be working on a coffee machine or just enjoying coffee. I chose the latter and the DTP is fine for me. I can make coffee quickly in the morning before work without having to warm something up for 30 minutes. I can leave for the day without worrying about whether the coffee machine is left on since it turns off automatically. I don't have to know or care about temperature surfing as the machine is always the correct temperature.

Don't forget to consider all the extra gubbins that come with the DTP that may not come with a used classic. The DTP inludes a tamper, a steaming jug and blind basket device for backflushing.

The PID is a significant improvement and without it the classic wildly varies in temperature. If you think it would be fun to add a PID to your machine that's fine.


----------



## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

BigEasy said:


> I've got no problem buying used, but it seems that a used Gaggia Classic in good condition, with a new frothing arm, portafilter and PID would work out more than a new Sage DTP. But if the Gaggia will produce a better coffee then I'd happily go that route.


I don't think there's any reason to believe that Classic with all the mods makes any better coffee than a Sage DTP out of the box. The Classic would certainly be uglier with a PID box stuck to the side. The classic could be fixed if it breaks though. The classic will have an Aluminum boiler so plan your retirement care accordingly.


----------



## Toby-IOM (Aug 8, 2012)

jimbocz said:


> The classic will have an Aluminum boiler so plan your retirement care accordingly.


This bit is lost on me, Jim. Would you care to elaborate?


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

jimbocz said:


> The classic will have an Aluminum boiler so plan your retirement care accordingly.


Now I don't want to start a debate on what risk aluminium may pose... But I think for most of us our consumption from a water filled boiler is less of a risk than the gunk we spray in our pits, or even drink in our water.

This article is interesting for seeing just how many places we ingest aluminium from.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/9119528/Is-aluminium-really-a-silent-killer.html


----------



## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

It was a joke, I've got no specialist knowledge but some think drinking from an Aluminum boiler can cause degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's

You should do your own research on that one.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Have to say I think it's codswallop (unless you accidentally ingest ridiculous amounts like the case in the article and are predisposed... )


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

Oh no, it's bad enough with all the coffee equipment choice - I don't think I can start factoring in potential illnesses...!

Thanks for all the comments, though. It sounds like the Gaggia may suit me best, but my wife may prefer the Sage! I think I'm already persuaded on the Eureka Mignon if I can find one for a decent price.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

If getting a cheaper Classic means that you can spend more on the grinder then go that route.

If I was buying a no-hassle machine to produce good coffee at home today I would buy the Sage. But then I already have a fairly decent grinder.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

The gaggia has three buttons. Add grounds, push on coffee press button count to (insert suitable number eg 27) seconds turn off.

My hubby can manage it, and I'm sure your wife is significantly more capable!


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

Missy said:


> The gaggia has three buttons. Add grounds, push on coffee press button count to (insert suitable number eg 27) seconds turn off.
> 
> My hubby can manage it, and I'm sure your wife is significantly more capable!


haha, that all sounds pretty straightforward Missy - but I've also read lots of comments regarding difficulty getting consistent results with the Classic - how can that be with such a simple operating process?


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

We are talking here about your wife making an acceptable cup of coffee? Not something award winning, but something that can equal the high street?

It can do that pretty easily, if you've got the beans dialled in on a decent grinder.

Getting something amazing? That's for you to practice so when you take her Sunday morning cappuccino to her shes amazed how much better at it you are. It's about levels of awesomeness...


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I think part of the reason there is so much chat around the difficulty of the perfect shot on the classic is because you can refine it towards the abilities of more expensive machines with skill and practice. But they are bought and used every day by people who probably use coffee ground a fortnight ago at their local deli or by chopping beans in a blade grinder.


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

Missy said:


> We are talking here about your wife making an acceptable cup of coffee? Not something award winning, but something that can equal the high street?
> 
> It can do that pretty easily, if you've got the beans dialled in on a decent grinder.
> 
> Getting something amazing? That's for you to practice so when you take her Sunday morning cappuccino to her shes amazed how much better at it you are. It's about levels of awesomeness...


Fair point. And I very much like the idea of having the opportunity to experiment. Just with so many variable (machine, grind, bean) I'll be making so much coffee I imagine I'll be bouncing off the ceiling.


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

BigEasy said:


> I'll be making so much coffee I imagine I'll be bouncing off the ceiling.


I can loan you two small children that mean you can drink as much coffee as you like and still be barely awake.

I reckon with the classic you'd have the best of both.


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

So, assuming I can pick up a Classic for around £100, am I best going for a Eureka Mignon Mk2 or a Mazzer Super Jolly? And where are the best places to look for them second hand?


----------



## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Keep an eye on the sales thread on here, super jolly's come up on e-bay and gumtree quite regular but may not be as they seem. Also the mignon MK1 is just the same as mk2 only the timer is on the bottom on mk1 and on the side on mk2...so no difference with grind.


----------



## i2idro (Mar 26, 2016)

I have run a gaggia classic for best part of 5 years paid £75 on ebay, maybe only 15 to 20 double shots a week mostly for milk based drinks. Have had no problems mechanically but if you change bean type a lot a good grinder helps heaps. Generally get acceptable to super results, but tying to do more than two milk steams takes a little longer as tank has to be refilled and wait to reach temperature (IMO).


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

Thanks all for your comments and advice.

Am I right in thinking that a Classic in decent condition is going to cost around £100-120?


----------



## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Yep. Depending where you live etc. Got mine for £80.


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

Well I'm still trying to get hold of the Gaggia Classic, but in the meantime I've got hold of a grinder. Picked up a second hand Super Jolly on eBay after getting a bit carried away... probably too much caffeine in my system at the time. Hope it works..!


----------



## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Super jolly is a good grinder and pretty solid, might need burrs changed but they're not too expensive.


----------



## GrahamS (Aug 27, 2015)

S/H Gaggia classics are free. Buy one for £100, use it, decide to upgrade, sell it for £100


----------



## BigEasy (Mar 26, 2016)

This forum is dangerous to the wallet... I've been reading so many things about different machines, etc., that I keep thinking "okay, maybe just spend a little more..." Having already blown a load on the Super Jolly, though, if I can pick up a Classic for under £150 then I'll still be within my original budget. But there are just so many nice shiny things out there!!


----------



## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

BigEasy said:


> This forum is dangerous to the wallet... I've been reading so many things about different machines, etc., that I keep thinking "okay, maybe just spend a little more..." Having already blown a load on the Super Jolly, though, if I can pick up a Classic for under £150 then I'll still be within my original budget. But there are just so many nice shiny things out there!!


There's a guy on here who sells them regularly for about £150 refurbished, think that includes delivery too, gaggiamanualservice.com is his user name just do a search and PM him.

This looks like a very good deal

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?30765-Gaggia-classic-boxed-with-Silvia-wand-and-OPV-mod-Staffordshire

And another one here

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?30716-Gaggia-Classic-2009-OPV-Steam-Wand-amp-Extras-%A3180-00


----------



## stevenet_golf (Apr 2, 2016)

I need to talk to this guy. Been researching for the last couple of weeks thanks to you good people...refurb Gaggia Classic and 2nd hand SJ, here I come.


----------

