# New espresso machine (maybe) - what else would I need?



## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Had a very enjoyable time with Mr Boots and Mr Systemic yesterday and am continuing to ponder the purchase of a Londinium... they have very kindly offered to train me up if I get one!
















I don't want to go into whether or not I am mad to consider getting a Londinium for my first espresso machine - so please no comments on that. Mr Systemic was insistent it was entirely sensible and Mr Boots laughed at my extravagance. But it is for me to decide - and I am not quite there yet... I want to buy well and buy once - am not interested in endless upgrades / changes (my SJ will be staying for the foreseeable future - though in a year or two I could possibly consider moving up from that)

Anyway, I am wanting to get together some ideas of what else I would need to buy (/have bought for me - have a significant birthday coming up which would give family an opportunity to buy directed presses rather than something I don't need - and also may just be the spur to get me to buy a Londinium!)

So I think I need:


scales

milk jug

tamper

knock box

filter jug / filter supplies

cups/shot glasses I suppose


Anything else? And where from / what sort of each should I be considering / getting?

I would like to buy a small number of high quality items that I won't feel the need to be changing, albeit I would expect there to be some individual preference that might be important but which none of you would know about for me!

Thanks in advance


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I laughed because I appreciate the insanity of contemplating £2k on a coffee machine. I love mine but has always realised it's a massive total extravagance, and long I understand that I'm fine with it .

Filter jug britta

Cups don't get shot glasses , use the scale , if you weigh in and out you can get some of the nice londinium ancap you say yesterday .

Not totally necessity but I'd add a naked PF to the list .


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

What a great way to go. Buying once is certainly a fab way to go and you would be In such safe hands with the l1, as for the other stuff there are so many nice things out there, try to get some hands on, for example with a tamper and milk jugs as invariably the first one is not the one you end up with.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

You can order a naked portafilter from Reiss. Have a look at Cream Supplies for accessories. Motta jugs are good quality and reasonably priced. Recommend the Motta knock box - it looks big but has decent capacity so it doesn't need emptying quite so often. Made by Knock tampers are high quality and, again, reasonably priced.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> I laughed because I appreciate the insanity of contemplating £2k on a coffee machine. I love mine but has always realised it's a massive total extravagance, and long I understand that I'm fine with it


Cheaper and therefore less extravagant than hifi...


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Just spotted Mr Boots has hit 5,000 posts!


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## AliC (Jan 9, 2014)

I would go for two milk jugs - one small and one medium.

If you have a Pound land near you, and who doesn't, grab a three-pack of coloured micro fibre cloths. I use blue for cleaning the steam wand, white for cleaning the chrome, and red for anything coffee tainted.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

I had a look and couldn't find a londinium in poundland. I even asked the staff and they said it must be out of stock.

Might splash out and get my microfibre cloths from John lewis.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It does not matter what you buy to start out with, you will change it/add to it over and over! The things you list are the basiscs but be prepared to add to it!


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

dfk41 - am looking for the basics at the moment, what I absolutely have to have from the off. Not wanting to get into having loads and loads of stuff (can be seen as having more things to get wrong / more variables to confuse), though I accept I may need to modify the selection a bit from time to time

I did forget to ask what size tamper - Londinium's own is 58.5mm. Is that the size I should get? Had wondered about a made by knock - do want something that is nice to look at and hold. Not going to buy anything cheap (well, cleaning cloths aside)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Tampers are very subjective. Is there really a difference between 58 mm and 58.5 mm. I am not so sure though I am sure others on here will vehmently go on about the 58 mm being unable to seal the puck properly.......If you liked patricks Torr, you will not do much better than that and perhaps CC has some still. Milk jugs, i have 3 every day motta jugs (cream Supplies) for Cortado, Cappuiccino 5 and 7ounce with various other jugs etc. I would just use the standard L1 baskets and screens before buying VSt and the like. If your palate is anything like mine then you will do well to spot the diffeence between tea and coffee! My judging falls into 2 categories..do like, do not like......keep it simple!


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## Jerry Thurston (Mar 5, 2014)

Perhaps I am naive but... A £2k machine then going out and buying the extras... Agreed that you need a list of what's needed, but from then on surely they should be part of the negotiation?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jerry Thurston said:


> Perhaps I am naive but... A £2k machine then going out and buying the extras... Agreed that you need a list of what's needed, but from then on surely they should be part of the negotiation?


There isn't a negotiation on price for the l1 ,he is a sole distributor not a retail outlet .

The price is the price.

He does some small times that fit in such as naked pf

But doesn't do the times listed by the OP.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Tampers are very subjective. Is there really a difference between 58 mm and 58.5 mm. I am not so sure though I am sure others on here will vehmently go on about the 58 mm being unable to seal the puck properly.......If you liked patricks Torr, you will not do much better than that and perhaps CC has some still. Milk jugs, i have 3 every day motta jugs (cream Supplies) for Cortado, Cappuiccino 5 and 7ounce with various other jugs etc. I would just use the standard L1 baskets and screens before buying VSt and the like. If your palate is anything like mine then you will do well to spot the diffeence between tea and coffee! My judging falls into 2 categories..do like, do not like......keep it simple!


I need to bear in mind that I *need* a tamper and perhaps do just need to get one that will do for now - plus, I may not be able to get one in time depending on what I choose - for example I know that made by knock struggle to meet demand quickly sometimes. I didn't play with any tampers yesterday - hoping to see Mr Boots again for more of a focussed Londinium experience in a couple of weeks. I probably need to accept that I just need to get some basics now and haven't a hope of determining in advance what accessories I will stick with in the longer run

Mr Boots told me not to get any baskets at all under any circumstances as he has large numbers!

thanks for all the answers so far - realistically I will need to get some stuff together before I get the Londinium - will maybe start having a more serious look this evening


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Jerry Thurston said:


> Perhaps I am naive but... A £2k machine then going out and buying the extras... Agreed that you need a list of what's needed, but from then on surely they should be part of the negotiation?


Sage for you then pal


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

From what I understand, the Londinium is only priced at around £2k because there is no middleman-markup added in, the purchase being direct from the producer. So negotiating to pay a proper market price including accessories would end up costing me a load more









Currently feeling more positive about buying the L1 after 24 hours of thought but not completely certain - not discussed with the lovely Helen!


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## Jerry Thurston (Mar 5, 2014)

OK, OK. I give in...

As I said in the first posting "Perhaps I'm naive" Seems I am and it's priced moderately in comparison with others.

It's academic anyway... I'll never have the wherewithal to buy one either at full price or negotiated price!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jerry Thurston said:


> OK, OK. I give in...
> 
> As I said in the first posting "Perhaps I'm naive" Seems I am and it's priced moderately in comparison with others.
> 
> It's academic anyway... I'll never have the wherewithal to buy one either at full price or negotiated price!


Ha ha good !

Your are bang on, if you were dealing with a traditional retail outlet with a range of machines etc.

Londinium is one one man band , with variant of one machine .

Plus I wouldn't want to try and haggle with Reiss at all anyway , with his barista skills it would be a fairly pointless exercise ....


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## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

There is another member here whose first machine was an L1 and he's still using it. I guess it is a case of buy once!

David


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Been looking at Cream Supplies site. They show motta milk jugs from 250ml up through 350, 500 etc. how do I work out what size I want?

they have two motta knock boxes - is the slightly more expensive one bigger? Cannot see dimensions clearly given

and for bottomless/naked portafilter (same thing, right?) do I want one from day one, or is that something to get a bit later? the L1 comes with a double spout I think?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I have the motta 350 and 500

id get a double PF with your order and save on shipping , you'll end up getting one anyway.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Does it come with no PF as standard then? Details not clear and picture appears to show double

so I want to get bottomless and double?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> Does it come with no PF as standard then? Details not clear and picture appears to show double


Comes with single and double portafilters. Naked is extra.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Mine didn't got a double only ........


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

I had perhaps best email to ask Reiss.

if I decide to get one that is (slippery slope and all that)

why do I want a double?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> I had perhaps best email to ask Reiss. why do I want a double?


Good point - never used mine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Honestly I never used it

I pull and make one drink at a time

like you witnessed other day .

i sometimes use the single for a change .

Week after next will Tuesday I'm free again in the day let me know if your free

other than that I'm about after 6


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Ok, so I think what you are saying is I want a bottomless ordered at the start, on top of whatever it comes with (which from the picture on the website looks like a double)

am free that Tuesday (25th?) apart from needing to be back home 4.30 to take eldest to clarinet lesson so, yep, that day would be great

might try to get family to get me coffee things (well I buy, they contribute to - to avoid the wrong thing arriving) - knock box and jugs should be the ideal sort of thing for that


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The slightly more expensive Motta Knock Box is bigger but worth the extra little bit of cash, I only need to empty mine ever 5-7 days, you can try out pretty much every cup in existence at Bootsy's as he seems to collect them. The jugs get the Motta teflon ones they are excellent. Treat yourself to a Torr convex tamper from the off the 2014 Brass Goldfingers are a lovely and hefty piece of kit, Dave should have some as Jens did tell me he was sending Dave some when I bought mine, and my poor Zebrano XS convex one is feeling a little neglected since the Goldfinger arrived.

I can highly recommend the Nuova Point "News" espresso cups sold on ebay they are amazingly thick superb quality Italian Porcelain and really cheap for 6 of them including saucers. For flat white and cappa cups I really like my recently bought Acme ones, but I also like the Inker ones that Atkinsons sell.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Think I will discuss tampers with Mr Boots when I see him - sounds like a minefield!


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

After a morning with Mr Boots (for which many thanks - even before accounting for the espresso cups and matching saucers) I have now ordered tamper, milk jug, scales, timer, knock box and some temp tags. Managed to resist the temptation of the grinder mat...

Not ordered espresso machine as I have ordered a tamper from made by knock - and would hate to have everything else but no tamper, so waiting until that arrives before ordering the LI

(am still not a reprobate though)


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> (am still not a reprobate though)


how about an honorary one??


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

oop north, so it's official, your going for the L1, nice one. My next and final upgrade will be that to


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> Not ordered espresso machine as I have ordered a tamper from made by knock - and would hate to have everything else but no tamper, so waiting until that arrives before ordering the LI


have to say there is a flaw in your thinking Tim. If you bang in an order for an LI - bet you'll have to wait a couple of months + Probably the same for a Knock tamper. Order them both at the same time and you can run a sweepstake on which will arrive first!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Think the l1 will arrive before the tamper ....


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

He can borrow my tamper if he needs too


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Think the l1 will arrive before the tamper ....


...what are you basing that on Boots??


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> how about an honorary one??


Not the kind of honour I am looking for, ta!

The LI is in stock, available off the shelf, so how irritated would i be to get one and then not be able to use it for want of a tamper - I want 58.35mm tamper so fairly restricted on choice, knock one wasn't too pricey and I like the look of it, and not going to buy one that I don't like the look of before I even get it


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> ...what are you basing that on Boots??


Im going to diplomatic and not answer that


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Soll said:


> oop north, so it's official, your going for the L1, nice one. My next and final upgrade will be that to


Yep, even managed to make some drinkable drinks with my own SJ and own-roast beans at Mr Boots' this morning, so happy it's worthwhile (in the I can afford it, it fits what I reckon I want from a machine and I have played with one sort of way)


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Im going to diplomatic and not answer that


That's not how you put it this morning!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

oop north said:


> that's not how you put it this morning!


d i p l o m a t i c.....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Tim - can lend you a tamper until yours arrives.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Patrick - that's very kind. I can pop round to borrow one - would be much appreciated - when would deb convenient for you in the next few days?

thought that means I have no excuse for not ordering the LI now!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Blimey, this must be a record? First purchase a L1?! niiiiice


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> Patrick - that's very kind. I can pop round to borrow one - would be much appreciated - when would deb convenient for you in the next few days?
> 
> thought that means I have no excuse for not ordering the LI now!


Tim - sent you a PM with my mobile number.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

And, collected from Patrick one very nice tamper









The Cream Supplies order is on its way (arriving tomorrow) so I suppose I had better order myself an espresso machine. Must be mad


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

gman147 said:


> Blimey, this must be a record? First purchase a L1?! niiiiice


No, I think someone else did the same? That's what I was told, anyway


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Well done Patrick. Have you ordered the L1 yet? - No excuses now Tim!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Had fun this morning Tim . You took to steaming milk like a duck to steaming milk









own roasted beans , decent extraction and a nice flat white .

all the skillz in 2 hours flat . You must be a natural


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Quack, quack, quack!


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Daren said:


> Well done Patrick. Have you ordered the L1 yet? - No excuses now Tim!


Leaving to the morning. Was out this evening and only got back a little while ago.


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

oop north said:


> Leaving to the morning. Was out this evening and only got back a little while ago.


Chicken









....


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Cluck, quack, cluck, quack


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

And stubborn with it!


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## Jollybean (May 19, 2013)

Hee-haw, cluck, quack


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Good job I live on a farm - I can blame the animals for the noises...


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Tim - it's morning now... When's the delivery date?


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

What are you like?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> And, collected from Patrick one very nice tamper
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Heard the saying, 'best place for a tree to hide is in a forrest' - you're in good company Tim


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Ordered. Eek!

Would have been slightly sooner if my bank hadn't blocked the transaction in the interests of fraud prevention. Presumably I don't have the spending habits of a Londinium purchaser! I wonder what those would be?


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Knock box (flippin' eck it's enormous!), milk jug, timer, scales, temp tags all arrived today. Don't know when LI arriving - only got confirmation of order receipt, nothing else. No news of tamper yet (no surprise). Brita jug been dispatched by Amazon today...


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

oop north said:


> Ordered. Eek!
> 
> Would have been slightly sooner if my bank hadn't blocked the transaction in the interests of fraud prevention. Presumably I don't have the spending habits of a Londinium purchaser! I wonder what those would be?


Yay!!! Congrats dude - I bet your like a kid on Christmas eve now. I can't wait to hear how you get on.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Daren said:


> Yay!!! Congrats dude - I bet your like a kid on Christmas eve now. I can't wait to hear how you get on.


Plus one for that. You won't be disappointed Tim.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Still not decided where it's all going to go... No obvious space and my wife's worried about the size of the LI. The SJ is not teeny either


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

LI being shipped out "probably on Monday", so hopefully will have it Tuesday. The water filter jug should be here by then as well - and its my birthday Sunday so I will have available to me the knock box and milk jug that I sold to family members to give to me as pressies









If the tamper gets sent by Made by Knock within the timeframe indicated on the website, it will be here on time! What are the odds, eh? Shall we start a sweepstake to see which comes first?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> ...... What are the odds, eh? Shall we start a sweepstake to see which comes first?


Long, Tim...very long


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

I live in hope


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## innatelogic (Jan 26, 2014)

oop north said:


> I live in hope


Lucky you, that valley is one of the most beautiful places on earth.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

innatelogic said:


> Lucky you, that valley is one of the most beautiful places on earth.


Ha ha! Wrong one - actually live more or less in the Ribble Valley - which is still pretty lovely albeit I miss Yorkshire


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## innatelogic (Jan 26, 2014)

oop north said:


> Ha ha! Wrong one - actually live more or less in the Ribble Valley - which is still pretty lovely albeit I miss Yorkshire


Pun intended


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Yes, I know - but couldn't think of anything witty to respond with. This time...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

oop north said:


> I live in hope


Reminds me of a local saying. There are two villages in N Wales near Wrexham - Caergwele and Hope. Locals used to say, 'you can live in Hope but die in Caergwele'


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

oop north said:


> LI being shipped out "probably on Monday", so hopefully will have it Tuesday. The water filter jug should be here by then as well - and its my birthday Sunday so I will have available to me the knock box and milk jug that I sold to family members to give to me as pressies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you don't want to risk having a machine and no tamper you can borrow my spare Torr for the cost of postage. Just send it back when yours arrives. Could send it royal mail special delivery so it would be there Tuesday latest.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

oop north said:


> LI being shipped out "probably on Monday", so hopefully will have it Tuesday. The water filter jug should be here by then as well - and its my birthday Sunday so I will have available to me the knock box and milk jug that I sold to family members to give to me as pressies
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you don't want to risk having a machine and no tamper you can borrow my spare Torr for the cost of postage. Just send it back when yours arrives. Could send it royal mail special delivery so it would be there Tuesday latest.


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> If you don't want to risk having a machine and no tamper you can borrow my spare Torr for the cost of postage. Just send it back when yours arrives. Could send it royal mail special delivery so it would be there Tuesday latest.


Jeebsy, that's very kind indeed, thank you, but M. Systemic beat you to it - I collected one from him Wednesday evening

Excitingly, just got an email from dhl - IT'S ON ITS WAY - WOO HOO!


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Poo - just re-read the email from Reiss and it's just a portafilter handle that has shipped - not the whole thing


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

You can practise doing some air barista technique, Tim - locking, unlocking, tapping out the puck etc on a virtual LI. Please do a video


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> You can practise doing some air barista technique, Tim - locking, unlocking, tapping out the puck etc on a virtual LI. Please do a video


Let me think about that for a minute. Erm, no!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Worth a try


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

You could try practising grinding and tamping?

You must be gutted - Christmas has been cancelled (for now).


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Worth a try


I am camera shy - the family have many photos of me with my hand in front of my face


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Daren said:


> You must be gutted - Christmas has been cancelled (for now).


Not really gutted - just not quite as excited as I was for about an hour until I actually read the email


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Feeling very impatient now but GOOD NEWS! The PF handle has made it as far as Manchester! Torture!


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## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

I remember the wait for the L1 - when I ordered mine they weren't being held in stock, and bootsy and a few others were ahead of me in the queue. I think it took something like 6 or 7 weeks in the end, but as soon as you get it unpacked (a mission in itself) and on you'll forget all about any delay.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

oop north said:


> Feeling very impatient now but GOOD NEWS! The PF handle has made it as far as Manchester! Torture!


You could have had it same day as order last week .....of the back of a lorry


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> You could have had it same day as order last week .....of the back of a lorry


I know - have regretted that a bit over the weekend...

got some Atkinsons vouchers as a pressie so will be getting some beans from them I think!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

They have some nice cups too....


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Helen was rather negative about the prospect of getting more cups into the house. Actually, that's understating her reaction quite a lot! Will get some beans for now, I think, and consider getting cups / latte glasses etc when I am used to the LI and know what I am wanting to use


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

oop north said:


> Helen was rather negative about the prospect of getting more cups into the house. Actually, that's understating her reaction quite a lot! Will get some beans for now, I think, and consider getting cups / latte glasses etc when I am used to the LI and know what I am wanting to use


Ok let me know when your in town I'll meet you for a coffee in the cafe next door


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## oop north (Jun 23, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok let me know when your in town I'll meet you for a coffee in the cafe next door


Ok - I can probably time to fit in with when you are free. Will be in touch - prob not this week but week after


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