# Sage Barista Express Sour Espresso



## sonicninja (11 mo ago)

Firstly, sorry. I can see there are a number of threads already about this subject, all of which i've read but unfortunately Im still in the same position.

Hello, Im new here. Had my machine for about 3 years but have only recently started making coffee with intent! I've purchased various bits of kit to help improve my espresso but having now gone down the coffee rabit-hole I can see that perhaps ignorence was indeed bliss!

My main issue is that my shots are consistently sour and pour consistently quickly. From what Ive read this means the water is passing through the grounds too quickly and that I should grind finer and/or tamp a little harder. When doing this I find that the shots become even more sour...could this mean that the water is channeling heavily?

There are so many variables and Im so far away from something that tastes nice I was hoping someone with a similar machine could give me a very basic starting point settings wise.

*My method/settings are as follows-*

1. Machine turns itself on 30 mins before I start grinding. (if you own this machine the 'Switchbot' it an awesome addition)

2. Put my premeasured beans into the machine and grind into the (preheated) portafilter which has a dosing funnel attached.

3. Grounds are levelled with a distributer/leveler tool then tamped (tampered, tamperareredings...?!) with a motta tamper. I would describe my pressure as moderate..somewhere between a very angry Maggie Smith or a sedate Mick Hucknall.

4. My cup of choice is placed on my Timore Black Mirror Nano scales in 'Espresso Mode'.

5. My shot of sour espresso is born.

*Current Settings-*

Generally fresh Monmouth beans, usualy medium dark/dark roast.

18g Dose in - 36g out. I usually stop the machine when the scales hit 34g to account for the final dribble.

Currently only using shop bought mineral water in the tank.

Machine is running at +1 degree above factory

Internal burr set to 5 (think this is its factory setting)

Grinder wheel set to 6.

Machine regularly cleaned and descaled.

Anyone notice any glaring issues here? Many thanks in advance.

Keith


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## Dodds25 (Dec 19, 2019)

When you say it's fast, how fast?

My suggestion would be to start by going longer until you have something that tastes good, then adjust from there towards your preferred ratio.

Two reasons:

Not much fun to be drinking sour coffee every time;
It could be that the ratio that works best is longer than you are expecting, but you'll never find this out if you stick to 2:1.

With your current grind / dose, what ratio do you end up with if you let the shot run for say 34 seconds, and how does it taste?

You may need to adjust the pre-programmed shot volume to keep the machine from shutting off automatically before you get to 34 seconds.

Edit: just noticed you said you were single dosing. I have not experimented with that but I have had issues with the grinder when the feed is not consistent. I would keep the hopper at least half full for now just to rule that out. Even at one or two shots a day, I don't find that the beans go stale from sitting in the hopper.


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## sonicninja (11 mo ago)

Thank-you for your reply. I'll try a longer shot tomorrow and see how it tastes. I programmed the shot to 36g so I'll pour the next shot manually.

I did notice that the 18g I was dosing did come out of the machine with an imprint of the grouphead on it, im guessing this is a sign its overfilled...? I dropped my dose to 17.2g and noticed this went away and the taste was far less sour. My confusion is that I thought the shot would become more sour if I kept everything the same but reduced the amoiunt of grounds...? This coffee business is confusion stuff!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

sonicninja said:


> Thank-you for your reply. I'll try a longer shot tomorrow and see how it tastes. I programmed the shot to 36g so I'll pour the next shot manually.
> 
> I did notice that the 18g I was dosing did come out of the machine with an imprint of the grouphead on it, im guessing this is a sign its overfilled...? I dropped my dose to 17.2g and noticed this went away and the taste was far less sour. My confusion is that I thought the shot would become more sour if I kept everything the same but reduced the amoiunt of grounds...? This coffee business is confusion stuff!


 Less dose , same output , could lead to more extraction .


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## Dodds25 (Dec 19, 2019)

sonicninja said:


> I'll try a longer shot tomorrow and see how it tastes. I programmed the shot to 36g so I'll pour the next shot manually.


 If you do it manually you may be changing the pre-infusion time, which is introducing another variable. If you program in a larger shot and just stop it manually, you will be keeping the pre-infusion the same. You don't really want to change more than one thing at a time if you can help it.

I wouldn't worry too much about the imprint. In any case I think you'll end up going finer, which will give you a lower dose and a smaller puck anyway. The reason for sticking to the original grind setting and finding its happy place is just that I find the BE performs much better with slightly longer ratios, and it's good to have a point of comparison. I would ideally like to be pulling 2:1 or shorter, but I can only get mediocre shots that way. If I go to almost 3:1 I can get really good shots, so that's what I do.


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