# Offers Over



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

In the modern digital age, why are we limited to selling things on the forum at a fixed price? It seems to matter not, if you state no offers. In general, people just look at the asking price and ignore it, and no matter how good value the item might be, immediately offer lesser amounts. Estate agents, to combat this all now offer 2 sales approaches. The traditional asking price that everyone ignores, or a lower, more realistic asking price inviting offers over.

Why can we not offer the same sort of thing? This is not an auction, quite the opposite. This is someone stating the price they want and leaving it to the bidder to use his skill and desire to formulate a bid. All you need do, is put in place a rule so that whoever puts in a bid has the right to the next bid.

No doubt no one will agree with me but hey ho!


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## alexferdi (Aug 4, 2015)

I think you raise a fair point. I personally really like the openness of offers, fair mediation and protection from things like gazumping that the forum provides. I think estate agent interactions are the opposite of aspirational transactions.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Very good idea! Let sellers add "or nearest offer" (ONO) or "accepting offers/trades" or whatever if they intend to negotiate the price. If it's not added and someone makes an offer, then Glenn/mods/witch hunters can tell that this is against the rules.

As a person who can't say "no" very easily, I find frustrating to tell someone that their offer is below my expectations. Ignoring a post or an e-mail is not a solution either.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I think we should have a time limit and bid for it , with a running down clock and the forum get 17% of the sale , no one has a site like that ...

Oh wait ....

Coffee forum - not gumtree or ebay or is it


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

What?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Boots, you and I might look at a grinder and see two values, x and y. The real value might be somewhere in the middle, but how do you get thereof there is no mechanism to allow you. I am not so stupid as to suggest anything like an Ebay auction. I am simply saying, for example, that it might aid people to be allowed to ask for swops, what have you, or offers in excess of as opposed to just asking for a price. remember, this is borne from the fact that many of the current crop of members do not know their arse from their elbow when it comes to val and just see something and chuck bids in


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

If you state no offers, and the item doesn't sell, or people do offer you less, then your asking price is unrealistic.

The buyers ultimately determine what an item is worth by how much they are prepared to pay. Doesn't matter how much you bought it for originally or how much you think it's worth.

The current system works well in my opinion. Items that are priced realistically will sell if there is demand for the item. If you aren't happy with the price you get for your items there are other places you can sell them.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Coffee forum - not gumtree or ebay or is it


Apparently, eBay owns Gumtree since 2005.

But you have a point, this forum is already well organised and Glenn or anyone else does not get a penny from sales. It's not fair!


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

I hang out on several forums, this is the only one that you a price on something and no matter what the price people are compelled to immediately offer less

I personally don't like it ... If someone says £5 it's £5 .... Mind you if I really wanted something and was £50 short perhaps I should offer less instead of missing out ?


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> Boots, you and I might look at a grinder and see two values, x and y. The real value might be somewhere in the middle, but how do you get thereof there is no mechanism to allow you. I am not so stupid as to suggest anything like an Ebay auction. I am simply saying, for example, that it might aid people to be allowed to ask for swops, what have you, or offers in excess of as opposed to just asking for a price. remember, this is borne from the fact that many of the current crop of members do not know their arse from their elbow when it comes to val and just see something and chuck bids in


As I said in my other post, the item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Swaps are available, the area is called 'for sale or swap'?

You seem to be suggesting exactly an eBay system? You say you want 'offers in excess of £500'. How are we supposed to police a finishing time for the 'auction'? If you want this functionality it already exists, on eBay.

The 'current crop of members' may have a different idea of what they feel the item is worth. If they offer you a price you don't agree with, then simply reject the offer.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

i think this would be a better model


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> As I said in my other post, the item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
> 
> Swaps are available, the area is called 'for sale or swap'?
> 
> ...


I am not offering a solution, merely a point of discussion. Askwith most things, if there is a demand for it, then the powers to be may consider it. risky, how many things have you sold on the forum. My observation, is that over the past 16 months or so it is a changed place. When I sell something, I usually gauge what it might fetch on eBay, knock off the fees and offer it for sale, then the bids start coming in. If you state, offers over £10 then only a complete buffoon is immediately going to try £9. If it is not with £10, then it is not going to sell now is it. If it works selling houses, why cannot it work here?


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I don't see a lot wrong with the current system. Set a price you are happy with, maybe plus a bit to allow for negotiation, and await offers...


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Rob666 said:


> I don't see a lot wrong with the current system. Set a price you are happy with, maybe plus a bit to allow for negotiation, and await offers...


by doing that, all you are proposing is that no one ever sells anything for asking price as it is immediately over valued anyway. The point I am making is that often, items that are worth the asking price all day long, have a stream of bids.......ooppss, thats an Ebay word


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> The point I am making is that often, items that are worth the asking price all day long, have a stream of bids.......ooppss, thats an Ebay word


Then they aren't worth the asking price! Doesn't matter what you think the item is worth.

If you want to guarantee a value for it, put it on eBay with a starting price, a buy it now or a reserve.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

@dfk41

If you state 'no offers' and someone offers less than asking price then do not accept.

I have no problem with someone putting 'offers over £10'

However, if someone offers £10.01 then I would consider that to be an offer over £10 and the sale should go ahead accordingly

If someone then offers £11 then the first offer should still be honoured.

I could look at an auction system - but they usually come with a charge for payment processing.

The beauty of the current system is that there are no buyer or seller fees.

The current system also means that we do not need to mediate very often

We make no money from sales conducted via the forum and I'm not looking at monetising this aspect unnecessarily.


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

"Offers over" is an instant turn off for me.

If seller can't work out a value and asking price I don't see why I should do it for them.

unless you have something highly desireable/collectable then it is basically a buyer's market. Things that are priced well should sell. No idea why no bites on your Rr55 dfk. It was a bargain offer. Maybe stick it on after payday?


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## jtldurnall (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm happy with the system we've got. Have actually seen a few things go for asking price recently.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The asking price is only right if someone is willing to pay it.


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## StuartS (Jan 2, 2015)

Interesting discussion but for me its very simple - an item is worth what a buyer is prepared to pay. Don't get upset by cheeky offers or the fact that someone doesn't appreciate the sellers valuation. Just hold out - sooner or later a price will be agreed or the sale withdrawn/item doesn't sell.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

NickdeBug said:


> "Offers over" is an instant turn off for me.
> 
> If seller can't work out a value and asking price I don't see why I should do it for them.
> 
> unless you have something highly desireable/collectable then it is basically a buyer's market. Things that are priced well should sell. No idea why no bites on your Rr55 dfk. It was a bargain offer. Maybe stick it on after payday?


Nothing to do with the RR55. It is just a general observation. I am going to stop trying to sell things on the forum. the general inference, is that if something does not sell then it is the sellers fault for being unrealistic. I do not agree, and as stated, when you put an item up, and lets ignore small value items like jugs and tampers, rarely do they sell for asking price. When they do, it means that the person buying it agrees with the seller, or does it? How do you decide upon a selling price? think of its value then stick a bit on? I like to offer value for money and it is for that reason, I get annoyed when people immediately come back with a bid....there are a lot of people on this forum who have bought things through me, and I would like to think that most of them have been happy.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Prices seem to have come down a lot on here as the standard of gear goes up....sell somewhere else if you don't think your wares are sufficiently appreciated on CFUK


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## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

The stuff that goes for one offer at asking usually goes very quickly.

The implication is that the buyer realises or believes that they will have to offer asking price to secure the deal quickly before someone else does.

This only happens when it is something that people really want. Stick an EK43 on here at a decent price and it would probably go in minutes. 6 months ago the same could be said for an HG1 but now they seem to take their time.

Moral of the story - we are a fickle bunch and probably all have too much stuff


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Credit card bills have hit peoples doormats after Xmas splurges

This happens every year - wait until March/April and spending goes up again


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

NickdeBug said:


> Stick an EK43 on here at a decent price and it would probably go in minutes.
> 
> Moral of the story - we are a fickle bunch and probably all have too much stuff


But the value of an EK43 is the value of an EK43......why should you sell it for a decent price when it is worth more? If you know it is worth £800 all day long, why should you advertise it for £700?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I've sometimes got to do vehicle valuations in work. People point to for sale ads/autotrader to show what they think their car is worth but they only show the asking price, not what they actually go for. It takes two to tango.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> But the value of an EK43 is the value of an EK43......why should you sell it for a decent price when it is worth more? If you know it is worth £800 all day long, why should you advertise it for £700?


If no one is willing to pay £800 then it's not worth £800


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok, we have had some lively discussion. Cannot see what else can really be added......thanks to those who had a view


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Gosh step away from the keyboard for an hour and miss all the fun. I think the current system is fit for purpose. Perhaps people could look at the big ticket items as capital items and therefore amortise the cost over four years with a residual value of some sort built into their pricing.

Or just stick to your guns. I do think making offers less than price asked on items listed as no offers is being rude.


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Current system works fine at the moment IMHO, things that go on at a fair price and are at all in demand tend to get snapped up at asking price from what I can see. Offers from someone just mean they think the price is too high for them, doesn't mean it won't sell for asking price to someone who thinks it's fair.


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> I am going to stop trying to sell things on the forum. .


You could stick to eBay, but then again your la pavoni went for well under what you considered to be its value on there as well ??

someone mentioned time of year ... I am inclined to agree, it's too close to Xmas to command decent prices


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I've got to say my experiences on here have always been very good both as a seller & a buyer.

Never needed to accept an offer below my asking price. I do take care with this though. I set a price that will sell the equipment I am offereing.

I never expect to raise more than two thirds of the original price but it does sell at that rate & allows me to move on.

If the equipment is older than four years I am pleased to raise 50% of cost price. I write my equipment down in value every year.

I trust Sellers on here as I've never had a bad experience & if its something I want I do offer the asking price.

Of course this does not suit anyone who enjoys swapping out new equipment.

Lets keep the system as it is, works well IMO


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I can see where DFK is coming from - lots of times recently I've seen things that appear to be what most people would jump at, but there seems to be a knee-jerk response to instantly put in a 'cheeky offer' just to see if they get lucky. I can see that if the seller genuinely believes their price is fair, this can be insulting. Some people on the other hand feel uncomfortable making offers for fear of insulting the seller or appearing a cheapskate.

I don't think the system needs to change though. If a seller is inflexible on price (as is their right) then the item will not sell. They then need to either lower the price, ask for offers or withdraw the item. Basic market forces. Which ultimately means it will sell for what someone is prepared to buy it for. That already happens.

For me, price might typically be less of a driver than a smooth transaction. So in my case, I would rather sell to or buy from someone I could meet in person, examine the goods, exchange funds and drive away knowing that both parties have seen the kit, had a coffee together and there is no hassle with shipping. When I next upgrade, I'll very likely stipulate collection only, or I'll deliver within a reasonable distance even if I get fewer potential buyers (which is likely to limit the ultimate price by reducing demand). It's worked for me this far. I think within this community, there are many for whom a smooth transaction and maintenance of reputation are worth more than a small % extra.

Cue Monty Python's Life of Brian:

"He won't haggle!"

A mate of mine does it on principle "don't ask, don't get". I sometimes have to walk away when he's negotiating as I find it embarrassing.

I say 'fair point' but let's leave it as it is and just hope that offers made aren't insultingly low very often.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I do not see anything wrong with the system in place, you set a price for your item and wait, if doesn't sell you either remove and go to ebay as i have done in the past or lower the price, or maybe keep it a while longer.

If someone wants to make an offer they are free to do that and the seller has the option to accept or refuse, or better still negotiate, adding rules like ebay i think will cause issues, spat dummies and more work for the mods/Glenn.

In terms of the RR55, yes it was a good price, but i feel it didn't sell because its not sexy or it doesnt have a mazzer badge on it....


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

hotmetal said:


> I can see where DFK is coming from - lots of times recently I've seen things that appear to be what most people would jump at, but there seems to be a knee-jerk response to instantly put in a 'cheeky offer' just to see if they get lucky.


^^ this, the culture has become haggle no matter what the price.

If someone puts up an item for £20 ... the offer will be immediately can you do it for £15 ..... but you know perfectly well had the seller put it up for £15, then the offer will be immediately can you do it for £10

the actual price seems irrelevant, there seems to be a natural want, like buying a car to get a good deal.

I think the answer to sellers is, to treat it like you were a car salesman and price everything 10% higher so you get knocked down to the price you initially wanted.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

In the case of the RR55 - I think it's about airtime. A couple of years ago people were talking about them all the time and everyone knew how good they are. It would probably have sold in minutes like a £190 Mignon would. It's still just as good as it ever was, but you never hear them talked about much any more, so a lot of people won't necessarily know what it is so demand will fall accordingly, through no reason other than lack of hype.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

This is my last word on this topic, so, let's have a look at the RR55. I sold it 18 months ago for £325 which at the time was a fair price because it was a nice example. That is also the figure I allowed mentally when taking it back in part ex. I felt it was genuinely worth £295 but it has been pointed out that these are not flavour of the month and people are not talking about them now. A member chips up that he feels it is overpriced and suggests if it was around £240 he would be interested. I think about it and agree, so offer it at £250 expecting a sale.

There is an unrealistic expectation on this forum in general. Too many people expect a 5star service level which certainly does not cut each way. I do not really buy and sell for profit. I tend to buy things, have a play and sell them on again, and I rarely do this for profit. One of the reasons that as a seller, I try to ask a sensible price is because of the empathy of the forum, yet time after time someone with 10 feedback pops up, grabs the bargain then you never see them again


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Sometimes people may be putting in the offer before heading off to see what it may be worth, some of the things on here can sell really quickly and as such they may want to just get an offer on so that they can move to buy it after negotiating.

The price of things can differ on a number of things, if someone is desperate as they need to raise funds for an emergency that 'cheeky bid' may get accepted. I think, as said previously the norm on the internet for people to offer less, even with offers over I'd be surprised if people didn't just chance their arm and offer less anyway.

Me and my wife differ, I am afraid of insulting someone and will not go too far under if I can help it, my wife will always without fail want to offer less regardless of value. I think the internet allows people to offer what may be insulting as it is less personalised, I think prices can be offered which would never realistically be offered in a face to face sale.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

First world problems ...


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

First world forum


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Don't wanna "loose " money on loads of stuff >>> don't buy more stuff than you need


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

I know I am late to the party but my tuppence.......

I think the generally really good friendly and matey ethos of the forum is slipping a bit - most particularly in the sales "bit"...

When I joined I got the feeling that stuff got put on the For Sale threads almost as "Pay it forward - but for bigger ticket items"

In that stuff was offered at break even/mates rates and tended to get snapped give or take at the price offered.

More recently there seems to have been a drift towards "making cheeky offers" (and consequently add a few quid on to allow for cheeky offers in the first place).

Plus quite a few new "members" seemingly joining the forum rapidly building enough post count to access Buy/Sell and then never being seen again....

In some ways this is a "cost" of the ever growing popularity of the Forum.... more and more people join but it is becomes less a group of mates.

Personally if I want to "sell" stuff I do it on eBay...

If I just want to pass it on I offer it on the Forum...


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

Drewster said:


> I know I am late to the party but my tuppence.......


would you accept a penny (1p) for it ?


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

h1udd said:


> would you accept a penny (1p) for it ?


Yes..... I had priced it with that expectation ;-)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Always the " new members " to blame


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I remember the days you could log off the forum and leave your front door open knowing you'd be alright...not like that now.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I don't personally agree with the statement "if you put it up for sale for £X and it doesn't sell, then your price is not realistic". Surely it might be simply a case of not enough views and interest from someone who badly wants the item? Besides buyers normally have a tendency to wanting to pay as little as possible, so why assume that the price is wrong only because a buyer wants to pay less?

To me it just seems like everyone wants a bargain these days, happens a lot when sellers have no idea of what items are worth, not so much over here with a bunch who most likely knows their coffee kit.

T.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Always the " new members " to blame


Not really "blame" as such.... more fact of life.

If I were searching for a fairly expensive bit of kit and wanted some sort of "warm feeling" that it was well cared for and possibly even a decent price...... there are worse places to look.

I wear different "hats" on different forums. CFUK isn't somewhere I look to make money but I accept that others are free to do as they like.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dsc said:


> I don't personally agree with the statement "if you put it up for sale for £X and it doesn't sell, then your price is not realistic". Surely it might be simply a case of not enough views and interest from someone who badly wants the item? Besides buyers normally have a tendency to wanting to pay as little as possible, so why assume that the price is wrong only because a buyer wants to pay less?
> 
> To me it just seems like everyone wants a bargain these days, happens a lot when sellers have no idea of what items are worth, not so much over here with a bunch who most likely knows their coffee kit.
> 
> T.


Agree with this, there was loads of people asking about varios last year, wanting one, i had a few pms to see if i wanted to sell one of mine.

Put it up for sale this year and nothing.

Peoples wants and desires change.... simple.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

As a new user of the forum, I'm pretty tired of being blamed for people who cannot negotiate.

Here's some sample language for anyone who's too much of a bed wetter to say what needs to be said:

"Hi Bob, thanks for the offer. I think I'll decline for now as I think it will sell for more."

"Hi Bob, thanks for the offer but I'm going to hold out for full price. "

Just cut and paste where needed.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Don't wanna "loose " money on loads of stuff >>> don't buy more stuff than you need


you would not have that tamper if i followed your advice!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> you would not have that tamper if i followed your advice!


Id live


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Id live


have you posted it on?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> have you posted it on?


Off work at mo - tomorrow


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

h1udd said:


> the culture has become haggle no matter what the price.
> 
> If someone puts up an item for £20 ... the offer will be immediately can you do it for £15 ..... but you know perfectly well had the seller put it up for £15, then the offer will be immediately can you do it for £10
> 
> the actual price seems irrelevant, there seems to be a natural want


The only item I have bought was at full asking of £20 just the other day.

I thought it was priced correctly and for something I actually wanted, needed.

If I thought it was over priced I would have left well alone, not made an offer.



Drewster said:


> More recently there seems to have been a drift towards "making cheeky offers" (*and consequently add a few quid on to allow for cheeky offers in the first place*).


I have seen umpteenth grinders put up in the for sale section and thought they were over priced. I am in the market for a grinder.

They languish there.

I cant be bothered to put in a lower bid and feel I have to point out why I think they are overpriced to justify my offer so I dont put in any bid.

It is so easy to find a great deal on new prices that I find it hard to see why a second hand Mignon is worth £200 when I can get one new with 3 years warranty and a spare set of extra burrs and the god given box it came in for £80 more


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> It is so easy to find a great deal on new prices that I find it hard to see why a second hand Mignon is worth £200 when I can get one new with 3 years warranty and a spare set of extra burrs and the god given box it came in for £80 more


For someone that 3 year warranty, burrs and the box are worth £80 and not needed, thus a 28% saving.

T.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

dsc said:


> For someone that 3 year warranty, burrs and the box are worth £80 and not needed, thus a 28% saving.
> 
> T.


You missed out the "NEW" part of why its worth £80 more than a second \ third hand one


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Depends on the state of the used grinder of course, a lightly used one might actually be better as the burrs will be seasoned. There's a lot of "if" s here.

T.


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