# Classic refurb



## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Hello all!

I hope you can help with a wee bit of advice?

Just received my used classic and it is a bit more tired than I hoped.

Lot of scale around the top of water reservoir and looks fairly dirty.

Didn't pull a shot as it is not clean but initially water came through at high pressure (above 12 bar) and seemed happy. After i turned steam button on it spluttered for a bit and stopped. Lights went out. After a bit the power light came on but not the others and pump not activating.

Opened it up and the earth wire was not attached to the top and the pump looks a bit wobbly (could be my hermes being their usual selves...).

Plan is to strip and rebuild and then hope it works so I can descale and degunk. I stripped my evolution and it is happy now although it is a bit more straightforward.

Oh and the portafilter locks at weird angle. On evolution it is 90degrees and pointing straight out on this it is more like 135. Suggests that group seal has gone?

Anything else recommended? I will look in boiler for corrosion and scale.

Here is a picture:









Thanks!

Oracle


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## MarkB (Dec 18, 2013)

This happened to me a year or so ago with the house elecctrics being tripped by my Classic. I was not so brave and sent it for repair where they replaced the solenoid and pump as well as descaling the boiler. I still have the list of part numbers fitted if that is any help.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Where did you get it from?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

It looks as if the rubber pump mounting has become detached or broken. Are the pump connections shorting against the incoming power connection?It looks reasonably clean inside and nothing really untoward. The pump mounting can be reattached with S/glue.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Got it from a guy on gumtree. Seemed like he wouldn't have sold an unworking one although he may not have used it for a while. And I can't discount that courier damaged it.

Electrics now seem to be not working at all. Not getting anything turning on. I'm keen to see what I can do myself so I can know the machine better. Obviously I may be out of my depth and if so it'll be off to get serviced. If there is something I can do I'll have a go though.

Can anyone suggest some things I can try or should I strip and reassemble after a clean and sight check first?

I was looking forward to altering the OPV; looks like I may be doing some more basic mods that involve replacing parts!

Declan


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

oracleoftruth said:


> Hello all!
> 
> I hope you can help with a wee bit of advice?
> 
> ...


What condition was it advertised in?

Sounds like previous owner used tap water.

BTW vibe pump is designed too be 'wobbly'


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

I did think it was a dampening thing although I think it is overwobbly as it made a bit of a racket Better design than the evo though.

I'll look into el carajillios suggestion before I do anything else.

They advertised it as working and then it was....for about 5 mins!

I'm pretty sure it came from a hard water area and tap water was used. So I'm going to descale the hell out of it when I get the electrics working!

I really appreciate all the responses; this community is fantastic! Thanks everyone!


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

oracleoftruth said:


> Got it from a guy on gumtree. Seemed like he wouldn't have sold an unworking one although he may not have used it for a while. And I can't discount that courier damaged it.
> 
> Electrics now seem to be not working at all. Not getting anything turning on. I'm keen to see what I can do myself so I can know the machine better. Obviously I may be out of my depth and if so it'll be off to get serviced. If there is something I can do I'll have a go though.
> 
> ...


Was the packaging damaged in any way too suggest damaged in transit? Get in contact with the seller and ask for a refund, that said buying off gumtree = pretty much no buyer protection.

Suggest you drop a PM to gaggiamanualservice on here. He deals in non working classics and may be able too repair the machine for you.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

It didn't look particularly damaged, no but it rattled in the box more than I'd have liked. There was also water in the system as things were damp when I opened it. I'll see if I can get one of my electrician mates to have a quick look to see if anything obvious is damaged...

Thanks again guys!


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Insides look relatively clean.

Before you go to all this effort, given that the brew light is not illuminating but the power switch is, I would check that the element is ok, ie. not shorts to ground and a reasonable resistance when cold.

http://www.cafewalter.com/gaggia/gaggiaclassic.gif


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Did you prime the boiler thoroughly through group head and steam wand BEFORE turning on steam. You may have melted the thermal link on boiler, OR blown element as Rodbod said.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Cheers Rodabod; none of the lights are now working! I'm borrowing a continuity meter from a mate to test the internal wiring and see what's what.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Does it usually have two shower dispersion plates? One looks same as my evolution and the other is two part with large holes behind a fine mesh.










Also found that the bolts on one side of the boiler seem corroded and I can't get them off. Everything is scaley. I'll keep a log here in case it ever helps anyone in future...


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Those allen bolts holding the water dispersion plate should come off easily enough, try applying a little heat to them it's probably coffee residue rather than scale holding them in. Once you have undone the 2 bolts if the plate won't come off easily you need to get a screw/bolt the same diameter as the shower screen one (M5 I think) but longer say 2" and then screw that gently into the shower screen hole and keep going it will eventually "jack" the plate of. It shouldn't have 2 shower screens on it.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks. That came off easily enough. It was the boiler bolts on the right side that seem corroded and I can't get off.










Removed the left side ones.


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## rodabod (Dec 4, 2011)

Make sure you test with an RCD fitted when using mains, and keep the metalwork grounded.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks; that makes sense. I've started to strip it now so it isn't getting near electricity for a bit. I bought a spares/repairs evolution from ebay to replace the internal plastic on mine and I'm hoping that if something is damaged in the classic I can use a part from an evolution. Are the solenoid and opv the only differences? Or in other words, are the boiler, pump and thermal fuse interchangeable?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The pump probably is not too sure about the boiler though, regarding your seized bolts, some heat applied to them may help as also some "plusgas" which mechanics use for seized bolts and let it soak.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Charliej said:


> The pump probably is not too sure about the boiler though, regarding your seized bolts, some heat applied to them may help as also some "plusgas" which mechanics use for seized bolts and let it soak.


Thanks; I'll see if I can heat them a bit and if not I'll see where to get plusgas. Really appreciate the help so far from everyone; thanks!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Just be careful not to go crazy with the plusgas you don't want that inside your boiler.


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## gaggiamanualservice.com (Dec 22, 2009)

You can get an exploded diagram from my site to help you. Looks like scale issue I'm boiler


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks gaggiamanualservice (Mark, is it?) I had a look at exploded diagrams and they're very useful.:thumbup: I've totally (except component parts) stripped it now but I can't get brew group off the boiler as the two bolts remaining won't budge. Going to try plusgas and if that doesn't Work i'll be getting someone with big boy tools to drill them out carefully. I'm definitely not putting them back in. Whole thing is scaley and the group was covered in coffee. I should have known better than to turn it on and test without a good descale and clean.

I'm pleased that I'm learning more about my classic. Well, everything but what the espresso tastes like!


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## gaggiamanualservice.com (Dec 22, 2009)

if they are stuck fast its actually easier if the bolts shear off as the boiler holes are not threaded


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks! That may be the only solution. They're still bloody attached!

In more aesthetic news I'm hoping this will help me get over the annoyance of having to strip and clean everything:


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Looks great what did you use for the coating?


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Got it done professionally. It's powder coated and cost 20quid. It was done while I waited which was good too. I'd recommend them. It's called "two brothers" in sheffield.


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## GS11 (Feb 20, 2013)

^^^ looks good....that's a cracking price:good:


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Amazing price for the powder coating


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

This is where they are;

http://twobrotherscoatings.co.uk/powder-coating/

I can't imagine any reason they wouldn't do that price for anyone. i just rang up and asked for a quote. in fact I'd imagine if forum people clubbed together you could get a batch price.

It's amazing how much better it looks; seems to take the boxiness off it and makes it seem more modern. It looks more red than the picture suggests.

If anyone does get it done you may wish to avoid the mistake I made and make sure to bring the top to get sprayed!!









Anyway...back to blindly hitting a boiler/group bolt....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

When I was phoning up for quotes most places were saying £100+ for powder coating...think when you say you want a coffee machine done they assume you're a rich ponce ripe for the taking


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

That's crazy! Are those London prices?









The guy said it was ten minutes to spray it and ten to cure it in the giant oven. The paint can't cost much so fitting in a quick and easy coffee machine isn't hard. £100 sounds like they couldn't be bothered and were chancing their luck. I had another place I rang flatly refuse. Luckily sheffield has quite a few manufacturing and skilled trades still going.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

London and Glasgow. One place does bike from frames starting from £40 so guessed it would be a bit more than that but maybe they just couldn't be bothered with the perceived hassle.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Latest saga....

With the help of an engineer friend I managed to get the corroded bolts out. Oh what a lovely sight greeted me. The most scaled up manky never-cleaned mingingest boiler and brew group.









Once I removed the mank from the brew group it looked like this (I didn't scrub this hard!)









So it seems quite a bit of the chrome has gone and the brass(?) is showing. Is this a problem? or like in my old portafilter it doesn't much matter?

If it is a problem what can I do about it??

Oracle


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## alarmman (Feb 4, 2014)

Check where the power goes, a volt meter, should allow you to check where power arrives, check first before and after the fuse (if any on entry), then move along the chain, be VERY carefull, if you are not sure what I'm talking about do not do it. Find a friend that does electronics, or understands electricity. Otherwise you'll have to contact an electrician.

Good Luck,

Andy


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Andy, I appreciate it. I know what you mean and i'll be very careful. I have an electrician friend and he's lending me a continuity meter to test where it's failing. I suspect the thermal fuse but we'll see.

I know one thing for sure; it'll be a hell of a lot cleaner when I'm done!

Does anyone know the best way to remove this without damaging the aluminium?


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

Oracle, at what stage is it just worth admitting this is going to cost a fortune and starting again with another machine? You have learnt how to take a classic apart and if all else fails must have at least a few useable spares so your investment so far isn't completely wasted. There is also a serious risk of decaffination because fixing this is going to take ages. I suppose there is always Nescafé to fall back on in case of dangerous withdrawal effects


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

nooooooooooo you mentioned the N word


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Better than the L word!


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

Only in a purely pharmacological context though. Perish the thought that any enjoyment might be involved! Could always go for pro plus tablets instead, or red bull!


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Heh Heh! Thanks for the Doctors advice! I've got my evo to keep me company and caffeinated!

I once had a horrendous experience of redbull at University when I had 4 vodka redbulls and had palpitations all night. Never been so tired and so awake!!

Anyway; it's cost me nowt to fix so far as I bought a sacrificial evo for £9 on ebay for parts (nearly new but sold as for parts: turns out the shower plate was covered in mold/coffee. Worked perfectly and most parts are same as classic (solenoid valve and OPV only real differences).

AND look how pretty it is:









How could I give up on that!!?


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

I didn't realise you already had it "beautified". No way you can give up now, just have to call it "The Bull"!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

oracleoftruth said:


> I once had a horrendous experience of redbull at University when I had 4 vodka redbulls and had palpitations all night. Never been so tired and so awake!!


Used to drink a power of vodka red bull at uni - it's even worse when you drink so much you pass out. After a few hours the alcohol wears off and you'd wake up but because of all the caffeine still in your system you couldn't get back to sleep. Lying there for hours with the fear, so rough, can't sleep....must be close to purgatory.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

I WILL be victorious!

Limescale will not defeat me!!

Stupid thing is I've always lived in soft water areas; I suppose I didn't believe it was such a problem.

Stupid calcium....grrr!

So it doesn't stop making me very good espresso, I should say my Evo is also very beautiful:


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Oh and back to the topic...If anyone has advice on what to do about the scale or the chrome-stripping, please tell me!

I'll scrub and descale with some acidic stuff tomorrow and then move carefully onto the problem electrics.


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Soak it in a mild descaler for 20 mins. Citric acid may do the trick.


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## Padder (Dec 14, 2012)

I read somewhere that the aluminium in the boiler on the gaggia machines reacts with the brass on the group head which is why they corrode badly. My boiler on my evolution was pretty bad when I stripped mine down. I just scraped off what I could with a screwdriver blade and tehn sanded teh rest with a dremel. Does make you wonder how much aluminium you are ingesting though


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## moley (Jan 30, 2014)

Seeing this thread has made me want to do mine - perhaps in orange...


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Funny you should say that. When I went it the guy I spoke to on the phone wasn't there and the young guy (19 or so) was trying to get me to have it in orange simply because that's what was in the spray gun he was using!

Looked a nice colour but not what I wanted!

They only had a few colours in stock but could order others. When I went in they had 2 shades of red to pick between but had about 10 you could order (plus all the other colour shades).


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

Was it painted then or powder coated? I was toying with the idea of restoring an old rancillio and had decided that the guys who repair alloy wheels were likely to do the best and cheapest job for me. I wasn't brave enough to go for red though, mine was going to be a gloss black, but I chickened out and bought a brewtus instead


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Yeah it was powder coated by guy that do alloys. Saw a big orange alloy getting done while I was there.

Mine was pretty cheap (£20) and I think it was worth it.

Just been into maplins for a thermal fuse and now having a coffee at Upshot for the first time.

Red or not if replacing the fuse doesn't make it come to life I'm going to give it a damn good thrashing.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Just had a look on fleabay and there are people trying to flog these fuses for £15!! They are 89p in Maplins, and they aren't known for their bargain prices.

Cheeky buggers!

Especially the ones who have just stripped an old machine and are selling off the parts for a fortune.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

I now have a fully working Gaggia Classic in Red with the OPV set to 10 bar.

I have cleaned every component.

I have had the case powder sprayed.

I have descaled most of the components.

I have soaked and scrubbed and cleaned and reassembed everything.

I have replaced the thermal fuse.

I have replaced the group gasket and boiler seal.

I have changed the o-ring seals.

I have assembled my own portafilter pressure gauge.

I I have changed the OPV pressure setting.

I have spent a grand total of £40 with half that changing the colour.

Maybe I'll make a coffee...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Well done , let's see it in action then


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks!

I'll take a film in 20 mins when it has warmed up.

Then you can tell me in what way my technique has rendered it all pointless!


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## Neill (Jun 26, 2013)

Great job and a one off classic. Brilliant. Now the hard work really starts! Getting the best out of it.


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## Dr Steve (Nov 25, 2013)

Well done sounds like a brand new machine, except in red.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Congratulations and all the work stands you in good stead if you ever need to perform any more maintenance on it in the future.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Not sure this is a good idea.... but here is a video of my disastrous first shot. As you can see it came out waaaay too fast (I suspect my grinder needs attention; its on 2 and 1 isn't enough to choke the evo so I think there is an issue..).

Tasted pretty sour!






17 grammes went in (I forgot to weigh after ground but has been pretty similar) and I stopped just before 60ml.

The puck looked ok; no obvious signs of channelling.

I'll try a finer grind tomorrow morning and then take the MDF apart to see what I can see...I'm not spraying it red though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Cool paint job , I'm unsure all that stirring and WDT is needed for a grinder with a doser tho.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Ok having watched you video I have a couple of things to mention.

1. As Bootsy has said I'm not convinced all that faffing around stirring the grinds etc is at all necessary, your doser will have broken up most of the clumps and then pouring from the container into the basket should take care of most of the rest, what you'll be left with are the clumps that will break up when tamped, remember the less faff the better.

2. You should only need to tamp once and then lightly polish, and you appear to be tamping with enough force to hold a gorilla down on the counter, tamp once straight down and level and tamp consistently, 30lbs pressure is not necessary and is surprisingly light when you try with a calibrated tamper like an Espro. AT the Bella Barista forum day a few of us were quite surprised when playing with an Espro tamper how light 30 lbs of pressure seemed to be.

3. With your grinder on 2 you should be fine at that, I would suspect that the fault lies in your prep, over tamping can cause channeling and it doesn't always leave visible worm holes, it could be channeling around the edges of the puck or have weak points nearer the base of the puck. Reducing the number of steps you take in your prep reduces the chances for error. Get the basics right and keep it simple.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Guys!

I'll cut out the faff; I saw I had clumps once a while back and just started breaking them up.

I'll also try reducing the tamp pressure; the edge of the puck did seem different.

Thanks again!


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Thought I'd try a flat white today. Turned steam on and 5 min later the thermal fuse blew again. I'm guessing the thermostat for the steam is broken which is why it blew the first time so i've replaced it. Again. This is like a tragic comedy.


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## zdgrunf (May 15, 2012)

At least now you know where the problem is...


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

...yeah... i've swapped it out. I'm very glad a bought a sacrificial evolution to pull apart and very glad I didn't need a new solenoid or opv.

Pulled a half decent espresso earlier. Bit scared to use the steam.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Only one way to find out.


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