# Shot Timing For 21g VST



## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Hi everyone.

looking for some guidance, have tried a search and cant find what im after

I have been reading a lot about shot timing recently on here and Home Barista and have even gone as far as a set of scales for weighing the beans, timing the shots to around 25-30 seconds depending on the bean and how quickly it blonds, i use 2 VST baskets and while there is plenty of info on how long an 18g shot should take there is very little on how long a 22g-23g shot should take to make 3oz, i imagine that it should be around the same time of 25-30 seconds as the holes in the basket allowing more water through in the same time around more coffee grinds to produce the larger volume but there have been two beans that i just cant get right one is Old brown Javan that i have not had any problems with before? the other is a kenyan AA blue mountain.

Normally go for a 3oz shot in around the 30 seconds and this used to produce a good taste, but to keep the pour a that time im having to grind a lot finer to the point that the start of the shot is very dark and nearly oily and then is nearly blonding around the end!! if i grind a bit coarser then i get a more even pour but a very bitter nasty shot, i have tried to tamp a bit lighter with the finer grind but this doesn't seem to make much difference? i am at the limit of my knowledge.

i have checked the pressure and set to 9 bar.

On my Expobar i dont have much temp control only by the amount of flushing i do pre shot, could this be temp related.

i have nearly thrown the beans away


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## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

I have heard that if the first few seconds of a shot is darker and thicker than normal that it can be caused by the water being too hot and sometimes in the cup there is a dark ring around the rim of the espresso. Do you have that?

Could it be that the extra few grams of coffee means that more time is taken to grind so the hx has more time to recover and is then too hot? What's your cooling flush routine like?

The other thing is that darker roasts tend to require cooler temps so you might not be flushing enough. Are these beans darker than others you have used?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I could be wrong but here's my thoughts. You're using a higher dose than a standard double. You're producing 3oz, which is at least 50% more than many of us produce with a double. Extraction is about extraction rate, not extraction time. Hence if you extract at the same rate as you would with a double, it should take longer. The surface area of the basket is the same, and the puck is deeper, so it will take more time for the brew water to do its job throughout all the grinds.

Try 32secs plus or minus.


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Hi

I don't get the oily ring/blobs of oil round the edge of the cup, but the crema dies really quickly and there is almost a scum to the surface if I use a slightly finer grind. But the taste is a lot better than if I use the looser grind, about 3/4 turn on the MC2 so very little change.

I have a sort of standard flushing regime, derived from reading various info including the HB how to love HX article, I will start flushing then just keep going until the water stops its little dance across the screen and becomes a nice stable flow, 4-6oz of water. normally takes around 40 secs to grind the coffee and sometimes I will flush a further 2-3oz just before the shot. This has worked OK for most coffee's and I can normally adjust a bad taste with the grind to adjust shot time.

The Old Brown Javan is a little lighter than some other beans I have been using lately so im not sure what temp to try, maybe they need hotter?

Having scoured the threads I did read that on the larger VST's flow to freely for some coffees, I have an old 20g that may allow the flow to be a slower through loser grinds?

Mike will try a slightly longer time but have tried 35 secs and finding it hard to find a grind that will produce a half decent taste, if it runs longer with finer grinds then it blonds and tastes OK'ish or courser grind pours better but tastes sharp, if I am getting a bitter/sharp taste could the temp be to high or low?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

RobD said:


> if it runs longer with *finer grinds then it blonds and tastes OK'ish *or courser grind pours better but tastes sharp, if I am getting a bitter/sharp taste could the temp be to high or low?


There is your answer - whens its sharp you are underextracting.


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Ok quick update, i have used the slightly courser grind in my crapo cheep 21oz basket that came with the naked PF and i got a 3oz shot with no blonding in around 30 secs that tasted quite good, so the basket looks like only half the holes only been punched through properly is better than the VST, this coffee making lark is a bit tricksy some days.

maybe the water can spend more time running through the grinds without the pressure squashing into the puck so much!!


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

You changed the grind and the basket, so how are you able to say the better shot is due to the basket being better than the VST one?


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Hi

it was only a tiny bit coarser (1/3rd turn) than the one that has been giving the dark start and blonding before 3oz and i have tried it at this with the VSt and it still gave a rough/sharp edge to the shot taste and early blonding and the coarser the grind got the faster the pour and sourer the taste, where as this shot was very smooth almost like a different coffee, but then the beans have aged a few more days so that could have had an affect to after reading your Patience thread, so i am going to use some more of my Indian Balmaadi Estate as i quite like that

When i get a little time i am going to try one of my normal coffee's and run the VST and cheepo basket side by side at the same time just to see if it really does make so much different.

EDIT= have just done a shot using the same grind and dose as last nights cheepo basket shot but with the VST and the harsh taste is back!! all the gear and definitely no idea this time.


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