# big conicals - proper extraction grind setting range



## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

This goes out to anyone who has got a big conical, or has used one in the past (long use, not just a few grinds). What's your experience with big conicals in terms of settings, do you find that the grind setting gap for proper extractions is wide or rather narrow?

I've heard numerous times that compared to flat burr grinders, conicals tend to be more forgiving ie. allow you to move over a pretty big range of settings whilst still maintaining the correct flows through coffee pucks and giving good extractions. Curious if you agree with this or not.

Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Tom I have found the big conicals, namely the k10 and mazzer robur, quite forgiving in that ball park espresso is still very drinkable, I noticed that they suffer less from humidity fluctuations, but don't know why. The grind consistency for espresso has blown any of the flat burr grinders away, that is up until I just bought the ek43!!


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Cheers Dave, curious what you mean by forgiving in terms of settings, is it say a few 'clicks' on the collar which still gives reasonable extractions?

You seriously need to drop by with your L1 to have a go at the ZR-71, I need someone who knows what they are doing on a lever.

Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

When comparing say a robur to the royal, the amount of adjustment for tolerable shots of coffee on the robur is greater than on the royal, however neither are vast distances, as you are aware if the config on the mazzers, it is about a marker further on the robur either direction.

Will be glad to bring an l1 up, will be passing through in a couple of weeks with one on board.

Can bring the EK with me as well if you like


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks again, do you remember / know how many markers the collar on the Robur has? I'm just trying to calculate what a marker means in terms of burr distance.

I think an L1 with you pulling shots would be a good test, you have properly calibrated taste buds, I'm not a really a great espresso-tester to be honest.

Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Not off hand and am in Italy at mom so can't just check for you, Callum has the robur now so could probably tell you or one of the royal boys as the increments are the same.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Used a K10 for around 20000 shots. I wouldn't say it's any more forgiving than flat burrs I've used. The coffee itself is the driver for that, in my exp. But agree that grind consistency seems better than, say, the K30 we've recently borrowed, as demonstrated by shot time variances. K10 is stable, and the body remains cool, whereas K30 can swing by up to 5 seconds in either direction, which could be due to grinder body heat perhaps (it's a Vario rather than Air), or clumping.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Cheers Mike, that's exactly what I'm looking for, reports from people who used big conicals for a longer time on 1000+ shots.

Regards,

T.


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## repeat (Nov 14, 2009)

Had the nino a couple of years and used every day. Change beans every month or 2 and is very forgiving and adjustments are just small tweaks. Much easier than the SJ.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

That is something I've heard as well, less tweaking, more coffees brew properly at very similar settings. Need to test this...

Regards,

T.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

I've been using a Brasilia MC (similar to the K10) for the last couple of years. Thread pitch is 1mm, and the collar is marked 0-48, so ~20 microns per number in vertical burr spacing. A one number change results in something like a 2-3 sec change in pour time. For the same dose, currently 20g in a 20g vst basket, I rarely need to stray outside the range 19-21. I set it to 20 for a new coffee, and it normally produces a good shot (if the coffee's good) - I can't remember the last time I sinked a shot for any other reason than not liking the bean.


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## Piccolo Espresso (Feb 25, 2014)

We use a Robur at our coffee shop alongside the k30 and a super Jolly. Our espresso machine is the spring lever Victoria Arduino Athena 2grp. I mention this specifically because extractions differ compared to pump machines i.e time and flow. That said once dialled in both the conicals and the flats are consistent and need little adjustment. The robur is stepless and easy to slide either way. Where it excels over the k30 is in power and speed, the robur being the more powerful beast. You can put any type of roast profile through, light, medium or dark and/or oily and the robur will cope. Also bean density can sometimes affect grinders, an example would be moonsoon malabar. This might be more temperamental on the k30, so we would use the robur. The robur needs little attention in terms of cleaning, its so powerful and the grind path being vertical it's working with gravity better. The k30 being a flat horizontal, needs cleaning more regular to remain consistent with the dose.

Hope this helps

Tony


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Piccolo Espresso said:


> We use a Robur at our coffee shop alongside the k30 and a super Jolly. Our espresso machine is the spring lever Victoria Arduino Athena 2grp. I mention this specifically because extractions differ compared to pump machines i.e time and flow. That said once dialled in both the conicals and the flats are consistent and need little adjustment. The robur is stepless and easy to slide either way. Where it excels over the k30 is in power and speed, the robur being the more powerful beast. You can put any type of roast profile through, light, medium or dark and/or oily and the robur will cope. Also bean density can sometimes affect grinders, an example would be moonsoon malabar. This might be more temperamental on the k30, so we would use the robur. The robur needs little attention in terms of cleaning, its so powerful and the grind path being vertical it's working with gravity better. The k30 being a flat horizontal, needs cleaning more regular to remain consistent with the dose.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Tony


The robur grind path is horizontal not vertical and has about 22 grams of retention within the horizontal path.


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## Nimble Motionists (Oct 22, 2012)

I've definitely noticed far less need for adjustment when changing beans with the Pharos (large conical burrs even if not a large grinder!!). I'm currently switching between three different coffees from Extract (Original, Zamorana & Bello Horizonte) without making any adjustments. Not possible to do this with beans of wildly different density and roast levels but even with very different beans I've found the adjustments pretty small and the dialing in shots have been much more drinkable than with other grinders I've owned.


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## Piccolo Espresso (Feb 25, 2014)

Sorry, should have explained better. Instead of "vertical" i mean't conical. The way a conical is mounted/ machined it grinds very differently to the K30 flat machined burr set. I wasn't referring to grind path retention, which is high on most grinders conical or flat. EK43 being the exception, but i'll let you know because one should arrive tommorow


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I already have one


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks for the opinions gents. As for the EK43, if the grind path is the same as the Guatemala (and I think it is), you'd be surprised how much stuff can get stuck around the exit chute.

Regards,

T.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

dsc said:


> Thanks for the opinions gents. As for the EK43, if the grind path is the same as the Guatemala (and I think it is), you'd be surprised how much stuff can get stuck around the exit chute.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> T.


From what I saw on Sunday (with a box fresh unit) Its approx 0.9g. Then after a couple thwacks with the bag clip about 0.4g. This was pretty much as fine a grind as you can do without the burrs touching (setting 1.2) .

For Filter grind (e.g setting 5) retention was 0.3g pre thwacking and 0.1g post


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

It's more of a long term retention, the amount of fines clinging to the bottom inside of the chute as well as old beans left in the auger chamber. If you clean it daily, you shouldn't see much old crap going into a fresh portion of ground coffee.

Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I think the grind quality is much better on the ek43 than the Guatemala though Tom, from what we saw Sunday, the particle size was pretty consistent, backed up by the pour from the l1, perhaps this affects retention! The thwacker is a must on they exit chute though


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yeah an EK (should I ever get one) would be polished daily : )


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

I'm not arguing that Dave and it might be that consistent grind will also affect retention, I just wanted to point out the fact that the EK43 is probably not a whatgoesin = whatgoesout grinder. Still better than 20g of coffee retention on the Robur









Regards,

T.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Yeh totally, we still found an element of retention with it.


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