# La Pavoni + Mignon



## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

I have clocked around 15 shots and still struggling to achieve créma. I am using a Mignon grinder but don't have the feel for how much resistance I should get. From when the burrs touch how many turns do I need and also how had do I need to pull the lever?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Peoples will want to know know the beans you're using and how old they are


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

Light roast Ethiopian from a local roaster. Roasted on 12 dec


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I'll stick my neck out and say grind finer.

Do you know the desired weight the basket takes and are weighting the beans?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

How much coffee are you putting in the portafilter, how much are you getting in the cup and how long is it taking?

You don't need to force the lever down it's a gentle push.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

if its a brand new pav you may find that the grease on the seals makes all the crema disappear - crema is overrated and tastes of nothing, its a bit of a myth, however I think you probably need to grind finer, some reckon you should be pulling about 30lb pressure on the handle but like many things its not that simple - and for gods sake don't watch the pavoni guide to using it

and let it heat up for 15 mins and purge the boiler air from the steam wand


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

I use about 12/13g of coffee

The prob is going finer will block the Mignon. Does anyone use this setup and achieve great shots?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Juba said:


> I use about 12/13g of coffee
> 
> The prob is going finer will block the Mignon. Does anyone use this setup and achieve great shots?


Are you guessing or measuring? Consistency is key with Pavoni's. I've never used a mignon but no reason you can't achieve good results with it.


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

I measure but the retention is quite bad on the mignon so I am getting 12 to 13g on the filter.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I would grind into a cup, then place your basket on the scales and pour the coffee in. Put the same amount in every time. If one shot you're putting in 12g and the next 13g, that will give very different results.

If your basket comfortably takes 13g stick with that for now, tamp but don't go crazy, once the machine is up to temperature put your cup on the scales, pull the lever all the way up and allow it to pre infuse for 10 seconds and then pull it down. Stop once you get to 26g in the cup, see how long that took and what it tastes like. If it was under 20 seconds an the coffee is sour, grind finer. If it took over 30 seconds and tastes bitter go coarser.


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

In 25sec I get 28g coffee has always been good but crema is like the price! And would be cool to achieve it. On my Gaggia there is no prob I can achieve it


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## DougalMcGuire (Feb 21, 2016)

Pre or post millenium La Pav?


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

Brand new pro so post millenium


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## DougalMcGuire (Feb 21, 2016)

I'm dosing up between 15 and 16g in the basket for 30-32 out (depending on the coffee). I'm hand grinding with a Feldgrind and grinding pretty fine and tamping pretty light.

After a fair bit of messing about I'm doing a couple of little 'mini-pumps', then levering enough to get a covering in the bottom of the cup and then putting the lever to the top again, counting to 3 and then pulling the shot.

I remember being hugely disappointed when I bought mine. With the same grinder I had been making some cracking coffee in an aeropress and it took me at least a year to really feel good with my output on my Stradaveri.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

With some beans you don't get a lot of crema, especially light roasts. If the coffee is good then enjoy it. Retention on the mignon shouldn't be that bad if you tip it forward and tap it on the back. If you're single dosing you'll get a better grind by filling the hopper and purging a few grams before your first shot. As for how hard you have to pull the lever, I used a luggage scale and trained myself to push down for 30 seconds to achieve a force equal to 13-15kg, but you can mess around with pressure profiling.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Deleted


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

DougalMcGuire said:


> I'm dosing up between 15 and 16g in the basket for 30-32 out (depending on the coffee). I'm hand grinding with a Feldgrind and grinding pretty fine and tamping pretty light.
> 
> After a fair bit of messing about I'm doing a couple of little 'mini-pumps', then levering enough to get a covering in the bottom of the cup and then putting the lever to the top again, counting to 3 and then pulling the shot.
> 
> I remember being hugely disappointed when I bought mine. With the same grinder I had been making some cracking coffee in an aeropress and it took me at least a year to really feel good with my output on my Stradaveri.


 Very encouraging so I LL keep playing with the variables


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> With some beans you don't get a lot of crema, especially light roasts. If the coffee is good then enjoy it. Retention on the mignon shouldn't be that bad if you tip it forward and tap it on the back. If you're single dosing you'll get a better grind by filling the hopper and purging a few grams before your first shot. As for how hard you have to pull the lever, I used a luggage scale and trained myself to push down for 30 seconds to achieve a force equal to 13-15kg, but you can mess around with pressure profiling.


The shots I have pulled today were very good and syrupy. So happy with the taste. Will try different beans next week

And

I'll start my espresso making workout as a New Year résolution  .


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

Mines a millennium version and can easily take 15g, but usually go for 16g - it depends on the beans and whether you are getting an imprint from the shower screen (which you don't want as you need a bit of head-space)

If you are getting tasty shots, then don't get hung up on crema. Some scoop it off anyway as it can apparently be bitter.


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

Is there a place in London where I can see (taste) a demo?


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

Did finer grind this am and finally got créma. I think I was to gentle with the machine and was not getting enough resistance.

@Rhys indeed the crema adds bitterness to the coffee. So nice only for photo-shots!

Thank you all!


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

Mission accomplished thank you all.


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## bruce.w.burn (Jul 31, 2015)

Just got a La Pavoni and all this information is helpful. My big question is how to get the puck out of the filter basket without burning my fingers. You can't knock it out like the standard PF.

Can't find anything on YT or forums.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Juba said:


> Mission accomplished thank you all.


Nice one, just takes a bit of time to get there. Now you can play about with the extraction and make some great tasting shots.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

bruce.w.burn said:


> Just got a La Pavoni and all this information is helpful. My big question is how to get the puck out of the filter basket without burning my fingers. You can't knock it out like the standard PF.
> 
> Can't find anything on YT or forums.


You either need to let it cool down or if you want to make another one straight away run it under cold water.

Welcome to the club, they're great machines!


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## bruce.w.burn (Jul 31, 2015)

Ahhh no particularly smart method then!!!

I'm getting to grips slowly - the lever arm was put on the wrong way at some point, so getting water in was a problem.

More to follow!!

Thanks


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## DougalMcGuire (Feb 21, 2016)

I manage to knock mine out in to a knock out box? A couple of light taps and then a bigger one.


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## haz_pro (Apr 4, 2013)

Doesn't the basket fall out?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

bruce.w.burn said:


> Ahhh no particularly smart method then!!!


Does anyone know the reason why those machines' PF don't come with a spring?


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## Juba (Sep 7, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Does anyone know the reason why those machines' PF don't come with a spring?












Mine came with a spring in the portafilter


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## bruce.w.burn (Jul 31, 2015)

Here's another LP question? I've turned the lever over as it was fitted upside down!!!

Now I find that coffee in, water hot, steam bled, lever up - not enough water enters at the top .

I pull the lever gently down and get about 10ml of coffee, so lever up and let some more water in and pull again and maybe a third time for the extra 5ml.

Any clever ideas LP fans?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

you may find that the piston has started to unscrew slightly off the central rod- this happened to me and I found the same symptoms

alternatively, make sure you lift the lever all the way up and hold it there for about 10 seconds to enable the water to pre infuse the coffee puck

alternatively their may be a bit of lime scale or grit partially blocking the cylinder water hole - but I would put money on the piston unscrewing from the rod as someone out of desperation has turned over the lever !

also if you don't want to burn hands on a hot basket then buy a second one - the earlier models did not have a basket spring (mine included) you can buy a naked portafilter with a spring for the 49mm models but at some cost.

easy fix


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

I had one without a spring and didn't struggle getting the puck out without burning my fingers.

You need to be quick and just use momentum. One thwack into the knock box should knock the puck out (and leave the basket in the portafilter upside down) then you just flick your wrist back around, maybe just touch the basket with your thumb for a second as you flip it.


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## greenboots (Mar 25, 2021)

Looking forward to a Eureka myself! Will post results!


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## CraigE (Apr 1, 2021)

Juba said:


> I have clocked around 15 shots and still struggling to achieve créma. I am using a Mignon grinder but don't have the feel for how much resistance I should get. From when the burrs touch how many turns do I need and also how had do I need to pull the lever?


 I started with this grinder, pulled probably a hundred shots unsuccessfully before giving up and getting a smart grinder pro, after which I haven't looked back.

I was quite scientific about it - you want to only change one thing at a time - beans, weight, grind, tamp, temp

One thing I did was get a calibrated tamper - helps remove a potential source of variation.


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## Irisco (Jun 12, 2020)

Juba said:


> I use about 12/13g of coffee
> 
> The prob is going finer will block the Mignon. Does anyone use this setup and achieve great shots?


 I have the pre mill and I can without hesitation say the shots on this outweigh anything else I have ever used. The grind needs to be much finer for a Pavoni than other espresso machines. I heat up machine & then weigh in 14g , tamp fairly hard ( I know the Jury is out on this), pull some water through the group head and purge the steam wand of air and then let it heat up again. Lock in the portafilter, pull slightly until you see some drips and once you do lift the lever up again to refill the group and do a gradual, hard but consistent pull. Once you've got that pressure of the pull don't ease off . Weigh & time shot coming out so you have some indication of being in the right area grind wise. The beans need to be fresh for a good crema I know people say that it isn't even needed but it does make the coffee look more appetitising and I think it often translates that you have ground fine enough. (If you have ground as fine as you can and the taste is OK then you can updose to commensate for a grind that isn't quite fine enough. Lighter roasts can be more tricky, needing a higher temperature than darker and I prefer a longer ratio but that's just me.


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## stingray (Aug 4, 2020)

agree regarding the beans. Very light roasts don't produce much crema.


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