# No crema!



## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

Ok so I'm a newbie and have bought my first machine a couple of weeks ago and have been experimenting since I've got it. As I wasn't sure if I was going to take to making "proper" coffee at home I didn't splash out on the full works so I bought second-hand: Gaggia Baby ("new" - not the neon type buttons) and a Gaggia MDF (it was free).

I've tried many different grind settings but I cannot brew any sort of crema. The grind setting I have at the moment looks to be the right consistancy but it can take at least 10 seconds to see any flow and I stop it 40-50 seconds in (need to run again to check what is actually correct) in order to get 40g (17g ground coffee used(. But there is no crema, or very little.

As a rule of thumb, how long should the flow take to emurge with 17g?

25-30 seconds for 40g must be achieved, right?

Beans are kept in fridge and are ground right before being placed in the warmed PF. I've tried many supermarket beans, all produce the same outcome.

My milk skills are pants too, I can't get the milk to swirl around the jug. I'm going to try a 150ml jug, I'm currently using ~100ml full fat milk in a 600ml jug so it gets a bit lost in the bottom. Unless its just my under powered Baby? Seem to get frothy top milk.

Just want to know if there is any troubleshooting advice you can give me or whether is it a case of I'm getting the best out of what I have.

Cheers!


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## John Yossarian (Feb 2, 2016)

After trying quite a number of supermarket beans you might need to get some freshly roasted beans to check it out.

It seems you are able to choke the machine with your ground coffee.

Someone who has your machine should be able to advice.


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## jaffro (Oct 6, 2015)

I'm sure you can get some better advice than mine, but I'll throw my thoughts in and anyone is free to correct me! I use a gaggia classic, which hopefully isn't a million miles off a gaggia baby, but probably a few differences.

40 or 50 seconds is quite a while. I'd definitely back off the grind a bit. The amount of time it takes for drips to emerge isn't too relevant, focus more on the total time of the shot from the point you flick the switch.

If the gaggia baby is anything like the classic then the pressure might be set pretty high. Might be worth looking into whether it's possible to do an OPV mod on the gaggia baby 😊

Super market beans likely won't be the freshest. If you can get to sainsburys or waitrose you might be able to find union beans with a roast date on them, which is worth a try. Otherwise something like the mystery coffee from coffee compass works out a cheap way to try freshly roasted beans. Also, no need to keep beans in the fridge.

Regarding the milk steaming - it might be worth leaving the steam to heat up a little longer to get up to temperature. If you start steaming when the temperature is still on the rise the pressure might drop half way through when the temperature drops back down. Try giving it an extra 10 or 15 seconds to heat up after you flick the steam switch and see if pressure is better at all.

Summary: try fresher beans, coarser grind until you get to 25-30 seconds a shot, leave the steam to heat up a bit longer after you flick the steam switch.


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback folks.

I must say, I did get the overall time to 30 seconds but the grind size was mahoosive, definitely bigger than it should be. I'm thinking cafeteria size.

I've just bought some new beans so will give them a go. If no one has any other suggestions regarding setup then my next plan of attack is get my local coffee shop to grind some fresh ones for me and see how they work. That would eliminate the grinder. At least that's my thinking.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

What beans have you got now? 
crema is just gas, a sign the bean is not ridiculously stale. So it's likely you've been using stale beans. 
get some freshly roasted (within 1 month) and you'll see the difference.

Espresso is in for a penny in for a pound. So if you aren't willing to buy decent beans maybe use a different brew method


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

Welcome ... I have used the Gaggia MDF with the Classic which is pretty much the same as the Baby iirc.

MDF has from memory 20 steps and for espresso i found that 1 was too fine and 2 was too course. You can mess around and modify it but it's fairly limited.

You might fluke a bean or a roast that hits the mark, but you won't really be able to accurately dial in. It is fine for other types of coffee but it struggles with espresso. I stayed with mine for about 6 months before taking the plunge on a better grinder. That said something is not quite right.

I'm assuming you are using the unpressurized basket. The pressurized basket (one tiny hole) and plastic button in the PF are for capsules - not suitable for espresso, and you have used the OPV mod to drop the pressure down to about 9 bar. This makes quite a difference.



CantChipForCoffee said:


> I'm currently using ~100ml full fat milk in a 600ml jug


 You need the right sized jug and the standard plastic wand is pretty useless for latte type milk, a rancillo v2 or v3 is better.

edit: don't get too focussed up on the time, and the amount of crema - it's how it tastes and getting consistency is the main thing. It's difficult with the standard classic as the temperature swings are dramatic - so you have to be attentive to when exactly the light goes on - count the same number of seconds then pull the shot. a PID is a great mod (albeit expensive one).

Good luck.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Have you refurbished or checked out the machine? How's the shower screen looking? Is it clean and all the holes open? Is there coffee crud behind it?


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## cuprajake (Mar 30, 2020)

Single or double wall basket?


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

I cleaned the unit with citric acid when I got it. This did I great job. However, I've since cleaned it with Cafiza and this has completely changed everything. I'm getting crema and the flow is quicker. So much so I'm having to work out grind settings again but it's definitely lower down now.

I haven't done the OPV mod, I'll look into this later. Looks easy peasy but I don't have a pressure gauge.

PID might be for another machine. If I really take to this then new grinder will be before a new machine. Has to be compact though as I don't have a lot of space.


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

I use a large basket that holds 17g of ground coffee. This is double walled?


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## Agentb (Feb 11, 2017)

CantChipForCoffee said:


> I use a large basket that holds 17g of ground coffee. This is double walled?


 Hold it up to the light if you see one tiny hole - it is the pressurized double walled basket.

edit: [URL=https://www.guide2coffee]https://www.guide2coffee.com/guide-2-coffee-1/2012/06/23/pressurised-vs-non-pressurised-baskets[/URL]


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

Agentb said:


> Hold it up to the light if you see one tiny hole - it is the pressurized double walled basket.
> 
> edit: [URL=https://www.guide2coffee]https://www.guide2coffee.com/guide-2-coffee-1/2012/06/23/pressurised-vs-non-pressurised-baskets[/URL]


 No many holes, it's not double walled.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CantChipForCoffee said:


> No many holes, it's not double walled.


Picture?


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Picture?


 Here you go.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Basket looks fine. Try sourcing fresh beans from coffee compass or rave, and go from there.


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## Roast-ed (May 30, 2020)

What number (setting) are you using on the MDF grinder? I have an MDF and gaggia classic and have found it's between setting 2 and 3 that I get the best espressos.


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

Roast-ed said:


> What number (setting) are you using on the MDF grinder? I have an MDF and gaggia classic and have found it's between setting 2 and 3 that I get the best espressos.


 I'd say I drift between 3 and 4 depending on the beans I'm using. I'm probably remove the locking pins so I can set the grinder more accurately. That's s job for Ron though.


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## Moparman (Jun 8, 2019)

Are you filling the doser on the MDF grinder? If so then you're not getting freshly ground coffee due to the volume of ground coffee that the hopper holds. The best way of using the MDF is to weigh your beans then grind as needed flicking the dosing lever until the grinder is empty each time. I used to find a grind setting of around 3 or 4 worked well with my classic and gave decent crema.


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

Moparman said:


> Are you filling the doser on the MDF grinder? If so then you're not getting freshly ground coffee due to the volume of ground coffee that the hopper holds. The best way of using the MDF is to weigh your beans then grind as needed flicking the dosing lever until the grinder is empty each time. I used to find a grind setting of around 3 or 4 worked well with my classic and gave decent crema.


 I'm only grinding what I need and I'm measuring 17g, pulling 34g. I've been using fresh beans from a local supplier for a while now.

Shots are being pulled with crema fine now.


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## Moparman (Jun 8, 2019)

All sorted then! Out of interest, which local supplier are you using?


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## CantChipForCoffee (Apr 16, 2020)

Moparman said:


> All sorted then! Out of interest, which local supplier are you using?


 Yup. I'm using UE coffee roasters, they're round the corner from work so very handy. They do supply locally too


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