# Comandante C40



## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

I'm at the stage where I do want to upgrade my grinder, but I'm not particularly ready to make the outlay for a Niche or similar. If I sell my Sage DTP and my Sage Smart Grinder Pro then I expect I would manage to get the cash together for a new Comandante C40.

I hadn't even thought about it until Sunday, when I saw the stand at the LCF. The chap gave his opinion that it was a grinder to match the EK43, and I told him that sounded like a really bold claim. That said, the grinder did look superb; I wish I'd actually had a go. I think somebody else on this forum (based on my search) also made a similar claim.

I will grind for both espresso (La Pav) and filter (Brazen). I switch beans regularly during any given week. On that basis, what do we think of this as an option for a hand grinder?


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Well it's a conic and not a flat so it is definitely an incorrect claim as to what the grinder can do!

That said sure would cover both ranges very well.

Just received a Kinu M47 and that is very capable on my lever and as filter, but the flavour profile for espresso is very different to my flat burr grinder.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

TBH I'd probably go for the Kinu M47 Traveler since the Comandante needs the Red Clix upgrade to make it more usable in the finer range.

Neither is particularly great for brewing a light roast.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Just to check you mean "not great" as it's simply harder to grind a light roast bean?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

If the fruity/floral super clean cup is a must I'd stay away from a conical.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> If the fruity/floral super clean cup is a must I'd stay away from a conical.


You can make great espresso with a conical hand grinder or a conical electric grinder.

I enjoy the fruity floral coffee my niche makes for brewed and espresso.

Is it the same cup espresso as a mythos or a ek etc - No - Is it an enjoyable cup for me - Yes

To say you cant make fruity and floral espresso with a conical is just not true, if you want a hand grinder , what options are there ?

Sure you can make different/better sweeter espresso with better bigger equipment but sound like the OP isnt looking for a big flat commercial grinder.

And I's take a Niche which is conical over a small eureka any day of the week, so that leaves the flat v conical argument in the bin.

Re the c40 matching an EK - to each their own, but for espresso it sounds like marketing hyperbole. People may enjoy the cups equally who make this claim , that's fine. but they do do very different things to the beans when grinding.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

That wasn't my point.

You can make espresso with a good hand grinder but filter is a different thing. I like m47 for espresso, not so much for V60.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> If the fruity/floral super clean cup is a must I'd stay away from a conical.


Ten year ago you used to hear people post you had to have a conical for fruity coffee, how myths change.

That one wasnt right either....


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

At the price point - yes - agree that you can't get an equivalent quality flat at the price, and comparing a £300 hand grinder to a £1500+ flat isn't fair.

Maybe a fairer way to look at this is you can make a superb quality coffee from a handgrinder at £300 and you need to spend multiples more to get equivalent from a flat burr, which may taste different.

As I said in another thread recently. I am shocked by the quality of hand grinders in this price bracket. Truly wonderful bits of kit when you compare to the price of the equivalent electric option.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Can you guys read?

I said brewing, not espresso. If you now of a hand grinder that does both great, I'd love to know about it.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> That wasn't my point.
> 
> You can make espresso with a good hand grinder but filter is a different thing. I like m47 for espresso, not so much for V60.


So MBK grinders and Niches dont make good filter coffee? Again too subjective to say "stay away from conicals:" based on that as plenty of users use these for filter .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> Can you guys read?
> 
> I said brewing, not espresso. If you now of a hand grinder that does both great, I'd love to know about it.


What are all the handgrinders made being used for then?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well my Feld 2 does both, and had great results form both.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> So MBK grinders and Niches dont make good filter coffee? Again too subjective to say "stay away from conicals:" based on that as plenty of users use these for filter .


People brew dark roasts, does it matter what grinder they use....

Can you stop the niche propaganda when it's clearly off topic.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Jony said:


> Well my Feld 2 does both, and had great results form both.


It's a gift from the gods. Wonder why people use something else...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> People brew dark roasts, does it matter what grinder they use....
> 
> Can you stop the niche propaganda when it's clearly off topic.


I own a MBk too, i dont drink dark roasts , it makes enjoyable filter. I used it alone for a couple of years .

As do many others @MWJB

No propanganda you made the point about conicals , its a conical it makes enjoyable filter

Perhaps stop with the Niche conspiracy?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> It's a gift from the gods. Wonder why people use something else...


Hey look what do all the hand grinders get used for , are you allowed to invalidate all the users opinions based on your experience.

"dont go near a conical... what all hand grinders.. really.........

There are a ton of people using all kinds of hand grinders for brewed , you may not like it , and you may enjoy what your hand grinder does for brewed, and you are entitles to that opinion but give it some balance man.

Are the 1000s of people enjoying filter coffee from conical hand grinders either wrong or drinking dark roasts ?


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

Using a hand grinder for every method is a convenience/price thing more than a quality above all thing.

Of course a Niche is a better option if one needs it and can afford it but that doesn't mean it's the best grinder ever.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dev said:


> Using a hand grinder for every method is a convenience/price thing more than a quality above all thing.
> 
> Of course a Niche is a better option if one needs it and can afford it but that doesn't mean it's the best grinder ever.


And at no point did i say it was.. whatever issue you have with the Niche and or it's makers I dunno.

Not all of us are interested in a quality above all thing, the OP isnt. Neither am i ( been there got the t shirt )

If it's your bag all good and fine, it was mine once too, but don't put people off other stuff because it is your bag ( again done this before regret it when you realise what a twonk one is being )


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## Zephyp (Mar 1, 2017)

I've had the C40 a few years and love it, but I only use it for pour over. For espresso I don't know if I'd want a manual grinder since it will take quite some time to grind. If I had to go for a hand grinder, I might look at a Lido, which is larger and grinds pretty fast. For pour over the C40 works great and grinds in a reasonable amount of time pretty easily. Light roasts too. It's all I drink.

Here's a video review of the C40 for espresso:


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dev said:


> It's a gift from the gods. Wonder why people use something else...


Because there are options (bigger, prettier, cheaper...whatever).

Feldgrind makes a normal grind for ~30mm burrs and for filter (ECBC & SCAA specs), as do Lido, Kinu (probably Commandante too) etc. For espresso it's just a question of which go fine enough (Zass Panama & Quito don't, neither does my original Lido for instance, Feld goes finer than you could reasonably use). For manual drip, you can make great cups with any of them, even with Porlex & Hario.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

rob177palmer said:


> Well it's a conic and not a flat so it is definitely an incorrect claim as to what the grinder can do!
> 
> .


For high yield espresso shots, well someone would really need to test this out, but it doesn't seem to be a known thing that small burr had grinders can do this. For drip, probably doesn't make any odds, maybe the Commandante is up there, if so, so will be Feldgrind, Kinu, Lido E etc (steel burrs & bearing support). It's highly unlikely the Commandante does anything the others can't do for drip.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

MWJB said:


> For high yield espresso shots, well someone would really need to test this out, but it doesn't seem to be a known thing that small burr had grinders can do this. For drip, probably doesn't make any odds, maybe the Commandante is up there, if so, so will be Feldgrind, Kinu, Lido E etc (steel burrs & bearing support). It's highly unlikely the Commandante does anything the others can't do for drip.


I'm just making the highly subjective comment that the conic will result in a different flavour shot to a big flat burr EK etc, that's all.

My impression is that there is little between these high end hand grinders, aesthetics aside.

Personally, I strongly dislike how the Lido looks, but acknowledge that isn't really a tenable position!!

The Commandante seems to be priced quite keenly but I cannot believe anyone would be disappointed with any of the grinders on the list you give.


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## dev (Jul 28, 2017)

I actually like the V60 results from the Lido 3 better than I like them with the Kinu. I think the Lido gives a better balanced cup while the Kinu brings forward the bitter notes.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Currently using the M47 on holiday with V60. Beans are LSOL March from assembly. Brews at home through the EKS matched the M47 - pleasant but pretty muted. Last couple of days, changed to Tetsu San's V60 method which produced loads of balanced grapefruit acidity - no bitter notes.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dev said:


> I actually like the V60 results from the Lido 3 better than I like them with the Kinu. I think the Lido gives a better balanced cup while the Kinu brings forward the bitter notes.


I think you have them set differently.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Thanks for all of your responses to my question.

I watched the Chris Baca vid, and he concludes that you can't really use it for espresso because of all of the grinding you'll be doing. He must be talking about a commercial context, right? Because otherwise I don't see how the 15g pour over dose is going to trouble me more than my 17g La Pav dose. The 55g for the Brazen might be another matter...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

filthynines said:


> Thanks for all of your responses to my question.
> 
> I watched the Chris Baca vid, and he concludes that you can't really use it for espresso because of all of the grinding you'll be doing. He must be talking about a commercial context, right? Because otherwise I don't see how the 15g pour over dose is going to trouble me more than my 17g La Pav dose. The 55g for the Brazen might be another matter...


Espresso needs a finer setting, which takes more elbow grease, finer still if the beans are lighter roasted which is where it becomes a pain in the arse

Sorry if you knew this already.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I am sure it will be fine for espresso. Even my MBK aergrind is fine for espresso at a push, just more tiring than you might like.

I wouldn't stress that side.

If you are happy with reviews of grind quality, then that's the main thing.

Seems to be less than £200 online which seems pretty well priced to me.

I haven't ground with one but got hands on with one and it feels lovely and solid.


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Espresso needs a finer setting, which takes more elbow grease, finer still if the beans are lighter roasted which is where it becomes a pain in the arse
> 
> Sorry if you knew this already.


I *think* I had subconsciously factored this in from my time with an Amazon special hand grinder from years ago. But it's worth hammering home.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

filthynines said:


> Thanks for all of your responses to my question.
> 
> I watched the Chris Baca vid, and he concludes that you can't really use it for espresso because of all of the grinding you'll be doing. He must be talking about a commercial context, right? Because otherwise I don't see how the 15g pour over dose is going to trouble me more than my 17g La Pav dose. The 55g for the Brazen might be another matter...


At work I make 3 drip brews from 40g total, I did use various hand grinders over the last 6 years, but it's electric from now on. At home, making just a cup, hand grinding isn't much faff & reach for those instead of electric.

Hand grinding for espresso? OK if you're not trying to brew on a knife edge all the time, just make a shot, hopefully it's at least nice, think about a little tweak for next time. If you're likely to be regularly tweaking & adjusting, electric takes a lot of faff out of it, more smiles per brews


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

MWJB said:


> more smiles per brews


....yeeeeesssss....except the flip side of that is the intangible enjoyment from having worked to grind those damned beans into a powder capable of espresso extraction...Somehow to me gives the shot a taste advantage


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

This has all very much led me back in the direction of the Niche!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

I'm waiting for the Niche 75mm flat!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm waiting for the Niche 75mm flat!


I think you'll be waiting among time


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'm waiting for the Niche 75mm flat!


With vertical burrs & an auger?


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Me too


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

One can only dream Boots!


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