# Help with grind size for Aeropress



## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I've been trying to follow Tim Wendelboe's recipe for Aeropress:

https://www.timwendelboe.no/aeropress-brewing-guide

The coffee tastes quite strong, but also kind of bitter and burnt a little bit, which tells me it is maybe over extracted, although I feel that my grind is quite coarse.

I have a stepless Ascaso i-1 grinder, which has 54mm flat burrs. Though the grinder doesn't seem very stable, with the hopper jumping and moving around when grinding.

As I have no reference point of how a consistent grind should look like, and what grind size I should be going for, could someone with a trained eye , tell me if this grind is consistent or not, or if it is too coarse or not?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5519956/IMG_3308.jpg


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

That looks quite coarse.

I doubt very much it is over extracted.

Aim for fine drip, a little coarser than you'd use at coarsest espresso?

Strength is more related to brew ratio, how much coffee & water are you using?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

what coffee are you using ?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

It is beans roasted for espresso (the only one I have currently), so probably less than ideal.

I am using 14g coffee to 200g water, with 1 min brewing time. It doesn't taste weak or sour , I would say more burnt and bitter.

What would you think about the grind consistency? I will try again with finer grind.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

the_partisan said:


> It is beans roasted for espresso (the only one I have currently), so probably less than ideal.
> 
> I am using 14g coffee to 200g water, with 1 min brewing time. It doesn't taste weak or sour , I would say more burnt and bitter.
> 
> What would you think about the grind consistency? I will try again with finer grind.


What are the tasting notes of the coffee, does it give a roast level


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Roast level is Full City, it was roasted about 1 week ago.

Tasting notes: filling espresso, good sweetness with darker tones. Sorry the tasting notes are a bit generic.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

darker tones could also equal some bitter too...


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Adjusted the grind size to be quite a bit finer (15 turns on the knob)

It looks like this now:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5519956/IMG_3309.jpg

The burnt taste is mostly gone now, but still taste quite bitter, and I don't get the sweetness.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

the_partisan said:


> Adjusted the grind size to be quite a bit finer (15 turns on the knob)
> 
> It looks like this now:
> 
> ...


Pictures of grind aren't that useful, keep going finer.

You could perhaps drop the brew ratio a bit with a darker roast? Maybe drop the 2nd stir too?

I need to steep a lot longer than 1 min to get the sweetest brews.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Wouldn't making it finer cause it to be even more extracted? the 2nd brew was already was so bitter, couldn't really drink all of it. - I preffered the taste of the first one even if it tasted burnt, I could taste more the flavour of coffee.

I posted the pictures of grinds to see if there was some wild inconsistency with my grinder or if it seemed rather normal, as I said I ahve no reference point.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

How extracted is it now? You're assuming your bitterness is because the brew is over-extracted, this is possible but it's more likely that it is under extracted if you are too coarse.

We wouldn't really be able to see any inconsistency (unless the grinder was seriously malfunctioning - e.g. can you see from the picture if 50% of the weight falls between 350um & 700um, or it its 70%? See what I mean.), your best reference at the moment is what your brews taste like. Even grinding very fine I can't over extract an Aeropress in 30minutes (but over agitation will make it taste bad even at lower/nominal extraction).

The darker the roast, the less coffee you can use to get a decent level of intensity.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Have you tried inverted? I find that produces much better results, but I use finer grinds than that. Has bean did an aero press guide on a pdf I think, that's what I tend to follow...

http://www.hasbean.co.uk/blogs/brew-guides/5952485-aeropress-brew-guide

found it...


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## canuckcoffeeguy (Mar 29, 2016)

Tim W.'s recipe is for light roasts. Perhaps try dropping your temp way down to 180F, or so. Non-inverted, gentle stir to saturate grinds, and slow plunge after one minute steep.

Low temps can work well for Aeropress. I just brewed an AP today at work with 180F water. Ground with my Pharos, using the metal Able filter.

Although, I tend to use 18g or 19g doses for AP with a full cylinder of water.

Good luck!


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I tried grinding quite a bit finer, and skipped the last stir and the result was much more pleasant and sweeter, not bitter, but still a bit burnt taste if not a little weak. My temperature might have been quite high though as I was quite quick to pour it, does anyone here use kettles with temperature functionality? Any recommendations?

Next time, I will try to grind even finer, and maybe drop the temperature and increase the steeping. Thanks for all the help.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I use water right off boil, but I'm aiming for a high extraction. Cooler water will make for a lower extraction, but you might still hit something tasty (it's relatively easy to make a good but basic cup at cooler temps)?

If you start with a lower temp, it might not matter how long you steep for as you might end up limiting extraction, you can't increase the slurry temp by using cooler water & steeping longer.


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## James811 (May 10, 2014)

I use aeropress quite a lot. I go with 13g of coffee, 200 ml of water about 1 minute off the boil. I use the inverted method, pour 50g of water and bloom for 30 seconds. Stir then add the remaining water. I then flip and press at the 2 minute mark.

Im no expert but that's my go to for a new coffee


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## canuckcoffeeguy (Mar 29, 2016)

MWJB said:


> I use water right off boil, but I'm aiming for a high extraction. Cooler water will make for a lower extraction, but you might still hit something tasty (it's relatively easy to make a good but basic cup at cooler temps)?
> 
> If you start with a lower temp, it might not matter how long you steep for as you might end up limiting extraction, you can't increase the slurry temp by using cooler water & steeping longer.


I've always assumed the AP plunge also contributes to extraction. Which then compensates for the lower temps that work with AP. And I also assumed that's why steep times can be much lower than for French press.

For example, when I use my Espro press with the same AP grind, I always use a much higher temp (e.g. 200F or higher)

*I guess my question is how significant is the role of plunging in AP extraction?* I don't dabble with refractometers. So I can't test this. I've always just operated by taste.



the_partisan said:


> ... does anyone here use kettles with temperature functionality? Any recommendations?


I use this kettle. It had a PID to set the desired temp in F or C.

http://www.amazon.com/Bonavita-Variable-Temperature-Electric-Gooseneck/dp/B005YR0F40

Also, perhaps you might want to increase your dose a bit. 14g would be low for me.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

canuckcoffeeguy said:


> I've always assumed the AP plunge also contributes to extraction. Which then compensates for the lower temps that work with AP. And I also assumed that's why steep times can be much lower than for French press.
> 
> For example, when I use my Espro press with the same AP grind, I always use a much higher temp (e.g. 200F or higher)
> 
> *I guess my question is how significant is the role of plunging in AP extraction?* I don't dabble with refractometers. So I can't test this. I've always just operated by taste.


Once the coffee is steeping in the AP, the only way to get it out is by plunging, the plunge does contribute to extraction because the coffee passing through the bed picks up "stuff" as this happens, but my rough testing suggests that the plunge only contributes about a tenth of the total extraction, and that to get a comparable flavour balance, you add that 10th of an extraction to what you might get from a static immersion (French press).

E.g. If I was aiming 23% for a French press, I'd aim 25% with an AP. You might find something you like at lower extraction than this, but I'd still expect to see a similar shift in EY for a similar flavour balance (18% FP & 20% AP, 20% FP & 22% AP etc.)

The shorter the steep, less stirring & the more drippage you have non-inverted - the more you can push the AP to a drip style extraction (& comparable EY target). But once you have stirred the slurry & let them sit for a bit, you are more into immersion brewing territory.


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## canuckcoffeeguy (Mar 29, 2016)

Thanks, that's very informative. I guess the other variable is the grinder. I use my Pharos at work for Aeropress and Espro. Not the most unimodal grinder. So maybe I've tuned my routine by taste to suit my grinder's profile. Perhaps I'd do things differently with a more conventional brew grinder.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

canuckcoffeeguy said:


> Thanks, that's very informative. I guess the other variable is the grinder. I use my Pharos at work for Aeropress and Espro. Not the most unimodal grinder. So maybe I've tuned my routine by taste to suit my grinder's profile. Perhaps I'd do things differently with a more conventional brew grinder.


Pharos is probably fine as long as you can get the overall grind fine enough, without generating too much silt. I don't think you need a particularly tight distribution for immersions.

Might be interesting to try the same steep time, same temp, then pour off the French press brew only (no grinds) into an Aeropress & plunge just to filter it & compare to a full brew in the Aeropress - easier if you have 2 Aeropresses, still 'fun' if you don't


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