# Small high quality burr grinder



## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

I've had a search of the forums but couldn't quite find the answer I'm looking for, do here goes... I'm looking to change my iberital Mc5 for something more kitchen friendly, ie smaller, but without sacrificing quality, indeed maybe improving it. I'd prefer a doser as I really don't want to faff about with scales every time, although I work for a measurement institute I could run a capability study on it. I'm sure I've seen the likes of the super jolly in cafes, but they are still on the large size. I appreciate that bigger grinder equals more stable process, which gives a small distribution of grain size so prepared to spend some money on something that's really well engineered. Recommendations or suggestions welcome. Thanks.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I have a sage grinder up for sale if that's the sort of thing you would be looking for


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

What's your budget? How small? Would you consider manual too, although you will at least measure the input.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Don't understand your idea that having a doser means not having to faff about weighing. Assuming you load the hopper the only way you'll get any kind of consistency from a doser is if the vanes are full. On demand means you weigh it once and get around the same dose with every grind.

Don't know anything about your grinder but the Ceado E37 (and E37s) come to mind as small commercial OD grinders that produce consistent dose weights via a programmable timer.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

The Sage grinder is the kind of thing I'm thinking of, it's more compact and it has a means of producing a fixed repeatable amount, rather than a doser - I'm probsbly confusing descriptions here. I don't mind usung stopwatch to measure a fixed amount from a manual grinder, but with the doser arrangement on the Mc5 it's virtually impossible to do it accurately, so ideally the timer is built into the machune. Budget is around £250 + whatever I can sell the Mc5 for.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Sage dose control conical burr grinder

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_type=t&share_fid=6813&share_tid=39674&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D39674

That should be the link to my grinder. Nice and simple


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Maybe a used super jolly would be the best bet. The Caedos are out of my price range which I'd realistically need to set around £350. I'm not convinced the Sage grinder is as capable as my current grinder, otherwise it's ideal in size and function. What about baratza encore or precisio? Mahlkonig vario?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

SteveR said:


> Maybe a used super jolly would be the best bet. The Caedos are out of my price range which I'd realistically need to set around £350. I'm not convinced the Sage grinder is as capable as my current grinder, otherwise it's ideal in size and function. What about baratza encore or precisio? Mahlkonig vario?


The super jolly would be a better grinder, but doesn't seem like it would be the right fit for you. You wont be able to time the grind and get the same amount of coffee without weighing and its gonna need a few mods to make it convenient in a home environment, it is a big grinder especially with the original hopper.

The Sage is probably going to be your best bet, they tick all your boxes and are capable grinders. The Baratza's you mention are not going to be much better than the Sage at all. As for the Vario, well it has mixed reviews, its capabilities are well documented though i've never seen nor used one so cannot comment.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Ok. So doesn't quite hit your small requirement but in the sale section https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?39541-Super-Jolly-On-Demand/page2

Could always wait and see what happens with the Niche, otherwise small and high quality means a premium price tag.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> Ok. So doesn't quite hit your small requirement but in the sale section https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?39541-Super-Jolly-On-Demand/page2
> 
> Could always wait and see what happens with the Niche, otherwise small and high quality means a premium price tag.


I can't access the for sale section yet. Others I've not mentioned would include the Rocky and the gaggia mdf? I seem to recall first time round I researched this several years ago that the latter wasn't great. The more I think about it, I don't need auto timing etc just a simple doser less button on / off direct feed into the PF or container of my choice. I can set it up with scales and a stopwatch so I can manually time each dose. I'd rather spend the money on that than any additional features. It doesn't even have to grind anything other than espresso


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

SteveR said:


> I can't access the for sale section yet. Others I've not mentioned would include the Rocky and the gaggia mdf? I seem to recall first time round I researched this several years ago that the latter wasn't great. The more I think about it, I don't need auto timing etc just a simple doser less button on / off direct feed into the PF or container of my choice. I can set it up with scales and a stopwatch so I can manually time each dose. I'd rather spend the money on that than any additional features. It doesn't even have to grind anything other than espresso


That was your 5th post, for sale section should be accessible now


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

It was! I had a look, bit too big and maybe too pricey. How does the Sage compare to the doser less Rocky?


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## Rakesh (Jun 3, 2017)

SteveR said:


> It was! I had a look, bit too big and maybe too pricey. How does the Sage compare to the doser less Rocky?


Much, much better in my personal opinion. Having recently had a quick go of the Rocky I would rank the Sage well above it, the Rocky's clumping just seemed to be a bit of a nightmare.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

You've probably been reading reviews of the rocky that are about a decade old. Back when I bought my Mignon I was considering the Rocky. Speaking of the Eureka Mignon...

Just read your grinder has 60mm burrs so you probably don't want to be dropping down for an 'upgrade'. Have you looked at the Macap OD grinders, or Quamar. I haven't any experience with either of these and you'll need to research them to check build quality and alignment etc.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> You've probably been reading reviews of the rocky that are about a decade old. Back when I bought my Mignon I was considering the Rocky. Speaking of the Eureka Mignon...
> 
> Just read your grinder has 60mm burrs so you probably don't want to be dropping down for an 'upgrade'. Have you looked at the Macap OD grinders, or Quamar. I haven't any experience with either of these and you'll need to research them to check build quality and alignment etc.


I was warned away from Quamar when I first joined the forum


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> You've probably been reading reviews of the rocky that are about a decade old. Back when I bought my Mignon I was considering the Rocky. Speaking of the Eureka Mignon...
> 
> Just read your grinder has 60mm burrs so you probably don't want to be dropping down for an 'upgrade'. Have you looked at the Macap OD grinders, or Quamar. I haven't any experience with either of these and you'll need to research them to check build quality and alignment etc.


Is maintaining the same size burrs really that important? If it's a question of speed it's unimportant, I'm the only one that drinks espresso with any frequency, so I would favour a smaller slower machine that I can use in the kitchen over a faster device that's too big. I'm absolutely sure that I do not want a doser either. The mignon and the M2M are within my budget, what are the major differences? Are the slightly better specced macap units a better quality grinder not just more convenient?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> ...and you'll need to research them to check build quality and alignment etc.


Is there a resource where we can check typical alignment & acceptable tolerances for grinder burrs (other then the much discussed EK-43)? If not, should we be giving the OP extra things beyond his control to worry about?


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Is there a resource where we can check typical alignment & acceptable tolerances for grinder burrs (other then the much discussed EK-43)? If not, should we be giving the OP extra things beyond his control to worry about?


That's a fair point, I'm making an assumption that the bigger and more robust the grinder is, the more stable the burrs will be in operation. That's why I'm looking for a small sturdy device that's been designed well to ensure a constant gap between the rotating plates. The ideal way to assess the quality of a grinder is too study the spread of particles size and compare the distributions between devices. Ideally a nice tight distribution around a controllable mean, but that's probably beyond the capability of most manufacturers. In the absence of that data, the only measure is the perceived strength / size of the grinder mechanism (weight?) and how consistent the resulting shot is out of the pump.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

OK, I think I have narrowed the choice down to (new) the mignon at £280, the macap m2m at £270, the macap m2d at £300 or the Sage pro at £200. There isn't exactly an abundance of reviews of the eureka or the macap (one reviewer simply wrote "great grinder" I mean why bother? Makes you wonder what goes through some peoples minds, or rather doesn't, but I digress...) I'll search these forums for any info I can get, a bit hampered at the moment as I'm stuck in hospital with only a phone to operate the Internet from! Should be going home this afternoon thankfully, with the anticipation of the Classic and a new camera lens waiting for me. I'll be swapping out the wand and changing the opv immediately, and praying that the 2kg of beans that I ground last week in bulk on the mc5 are close enough for the classic. They would have been perfect on my baby d but that was probably running at 11-12 bar....


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

I have just discovered the Niche. That looks more like it! What is so frustrating is that almost every manufacturer's range adds unnecessary features like digital timers etc as well as increasing the quality of the actual grinding mechanism. I'd like a macap 4 or 5 body but without all of the buttons please! Small Hopper, big grinder with a nice big stable bearing to keep the burrs under control, and a strong enough motor to grind at consistent speed down to fine levels. It can spew the grind out of a short spout and nothing else needed for me!


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

igm45 said:


> I was warned away from Quamar when I first joined the forum


Why was this? The M80e looks pretty impressive, and I've not found any negative reviews of it.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

It was reviewed for a retailer who chose not to stock it after the review.

All on this thread:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36872


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

igm45 said:


> It was reviewed for a retailer who chose not to stock it after the review.
> 
> All on this thread:
> 
> https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36872


OK, thanks for that, it's crossed off my list


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

There are reviews of the Mignon around - such as here and here.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Ordered a mignon, it should arrive tomorrow (Wednesday). Looking forward to using fresh coffee!


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## lake_m (Feb 4, 2017)

SteveR said:


> Why was this? The M80e looks pretty impressive, and I've not found any negative reviews of it.


I own the non e version (manual only). I have had no issues with it. it produces a nice consistent, clump free grind that taste great. I now also own a 'Titan Conical' Ceado E92 which is on a different level, but I will keep the M80 - it's actually worth more to me than it's monetary value. It was a massive upgrade from my previous 50mm burr grinder. (63mm burrs). There may be an issue with the e version I don't know, but my manual version hasn't missed a beat. Longevity is the only thing I can not talk about because I purchased it new this year.

Just my 2p worth.


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## jcev39 (Aug 22, 2017)

SteveR said:


> Ordered a mignon, it should arrive tomorrow (Wednesday). Looking forward to using fresh coffee!


I'd be interested in your views on it when you've had a chance to play. I'm going to be looking for a similar set up and its always good to get the views of someone who's used it!

Cheers

John


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

jcev39 said:


> I'd be interested in your views on it when you've had a chance to play. I'm going to be looking for a similar set up and its always good to get the views of someone who's used it!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


Will do. I'm away all week, but will have a good play over the weekend.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

OK, so set it up this evening, I'd recommend using youtube as your set up manual, as the one supplied is more useful as toilet paper. I did 5 shots, and I've got to 23s for a double, with 16g in the basket. The grind adjust is quite sensitive, but it's really easy to use. No marker reference on the control dial so you'll need to pick an arbitrary point and remember it.


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

I've got a mignon, really pleased with it, seemed the sweet spot if you don't want a big ugly grinder









makes gorgeous coffee


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Yep, I'm chuffed with mine too. The only faff is purging stale grinds out which gets a bit messy


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## Apatche64 (Jun 24, 2017)

I only do that if I haven't used it for abit, you don't need to do it every time









a little tap tap on the sport is enough to remove most of the grounds


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Yes that's what I do. If it's been idle for an hour I'll run a bit through. It's not as if it's going to bankrupt me, I'm the only drinker and rarely mire than 2-3 drinks a day when I'm home, half the week I'm travelling so light domestic use!


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

OK, so a few days in, and the amount of retained grounds is quite high. I find tilting an tapping releases around 2-3g but just bumping it on the work surface dumps a whole clump! I could investigate where it's all kept and figure out a post grind cleaning procedure to minimise the next grind, but has anyone done this already? In the grand scheme of things though, I spend far far more attention on my wine "cellar" and photography. I spend most of my leisure time riding a bike, which is what has driven the coffee obsession, but I am never going to graduate beyond the Classic.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@SteveR, purge the grinder for a second or two so those stale grinds don't end up in your cup before a session. Unless you have a grinder with virtually no retention (Sette, Niche, HG-1, Kinu, lots of other manual ones, modded grinders for single dosing, etc, etc) purging a few grams before a session when using a hopper is just fact of life.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @SteveR, purge the grinder for a second or two so those stale grinds don't end up in your cup before a session. Unless you have a grinder with virtually no retention (Sette, Niche, HG-1, Kinu, lots of other manual ones, modded grinders for single dosing, etc, etc) purging a few grams before a session when using a hopper is just fact of life.


That's what I do, the concern is that purging might rid stale grinds in the path of the grinds. Tapping it after grinding gives a clue of how much, but tapping the whole machine on the surface and a whole tump falls out! How do I know that purging for 2-3s really prevents stale grinds getting into the basket?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Usually people just purge whatever is in the chute, in your case, 2-3g. If banging / tapping works for you then all good I suppose.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

I guess so. I'm happy with what I'm tasting.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Usually people just purge whatever is in the chute, in your case, 2-3g. If banging / tapping works for you then all good I suppose.


I'd second this regarding the purging. I looked at my review of the Mignon years ago and it was done at a time when purging was expected of all grinders and I didn't really go into detail of how much to purge.


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## SteveR (Aug 21, 2017)

Another week in, and I've dialled in a timed dose to hit 16g (14s with current beans). This is giving me a consistent 25-30s double shot, and a taste that is where I like it. I tap and purge for 2-3s before making a fresh grind. Taste is spot on, unlike my crap latte art, though I've mastered the wand.


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