# Gaggia Classic Filter Basket size (14g or 16g) and Dosing



## winz

Hey guys!

I have a Gaggia Classic bought in 2016 from the UK. It should be 9403/11. I have a double basket but I don't know whether it is a 14g or 16g basket. Mine has a ridge on the vertical side. I have been dosing 17-18g and flow seems okay, but the taste is bitter.

The following video at *4:10 *shows of the two baskets.






Some images of the basket I have.









From left, Gaggia Pressurized Single, Gaggia Pressurized Double, and Gaggia Commercial non-pressurized double

















Coffee that comes out with the lack of crema. Looks like overextracted with 17-18g?









Thanks in advance!


----------



## Pants001

Whats the puck look like when you'r finished

wet / dry?, fully pressed against the screen? solid or soupy?

also how much are you extracting and over what time?


----------



## winz

Pants001 said:


> Whats the puck look like when you'r finished
> 
> wet / dry?, fully pressed against the screen? solid or soupy?
> 
> also how much are you extracting and over what time?


 Heya! It's solid and dry. Comes out one whole piece.

I'm extracting about 2 ounces, but i didn't take the timing though.

My new weighing scale is coming in, i intend to weigh the espresso output.

Just that because i can't figure out my basket weight, i'm not sure the gram mage to use. I'm thinking of dropping to 15-16g.


----------



## Hasi

Hi and welcome!
First off, keep your basket and pf as clean as new at all times.
Second, puck dryness is no real indication of anything - totally depends on beans, their roast level, machine specs, brew pressure and what not... I can have wet pucks and a perfect extraction.
One thing to look out for, though, is whether you get a negative of shower screen stamped into top of puck! Then you're likely overfilling because grounds dwell once they get in contact with water and you wanna make sure there's enough head room for them to do so.

For me, this looks like a stock double basket rated @14g usually.

I would go with 14-15g max, tighten the grind a bit to extract 30g in around 30s (from flicking switch) and see how it performs!

Good luck!


----------



## winz

Hey guys!

i just did two runs:

1) Gaggia MDF grinder setting 5, grounds at 15g, espresso reached 30g at 10 seconds

2) Gaggia MDF grinder setting 4 (finer), grounds at 16g, and espresso reached 30g at 18 seconds

should I try to push it to 17g at current grind size?

Btw, I timed the shots when the first drop of coffee comes out. So maybe there's an additional 4s I need to add in? I'll time from flicking switch next.


----------



## MWJB

Time from flicking the brew switch, until you turn it off again (just before you actually see 30g on the scales). Ignore the time between turning off the switch & the scales catching the last few g of your shot, after killing the switch.

Try 16g at grinder setting 2 or 3 (assuming that you get no chirping from the grinder burrs).

Are you drinking all these as espresso, neat?

I'm a bit confused, you say you have 30g in the cup with thin crema, but you also say you have 2 ounces? Can't be both.

You can't see over-extraction, if shots are running fast under-extraction is more likely. Crema can't tell you which it is (I stir in my crema, or scoop it off anyway).


----------



## winz

MWJB said:


> Time from flicking the brew switch, until you turn it off again (just before you actually see 30g on the scales). Ignore the time between turning off the switch & the scales catching the last few g of your shot, after killing the switch.
> 
> Try 16g at grinder setting 2 or 3 (assuming that you get no chirping from the grinder burrs).
> 
> Are you drinking all these as espresso, neat?
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say you have 30g in the cup with thin crema, but you also say you have 2 ounces? Can't be both.
> 
> You can't see over-extraction, if shots are running fast under-extraction is more likely. Crema can't tell you which it is (I stir in my crema, or scoop it off anyway).


 Thank you! I'll try pushing the grind setting to 3.

ah apologies, the "2 ounces" indication was before I started measuring the weight. I just received my scale yesterday so I'm going by weight now. Feels more accurate with output weight ?


----------



## ashcroc

When I used a MDF for espresso (before I moved to a Mignon), I was usually (single dosing) somewhere between 2 & 4. I'd done the stepless mod on it & re-zeroed the burrs to allow more range. The biggest problem was the 3+ grams of retention.

Don't worry too much about time. Have had fantastic shots run both quicker & slower.


----------



## Hasi

ashcroc said:


> When I used a MDF for espresso (before I moved to a Mignon), I was usually (single dosing) somewhere between 2 & 4. I'd done the stepless mod on it & re-zeroed the burrs to allow more range. The biggest problem was the 3+ grams of retention.
> 
> Don't worry too much about time. Have had fantastic shots run both quicker & slower.


absolutely, timeframe is the least important variable. Used it in my initial suggestion to illustrate a reasonable ballpark figure - my bad 

crema is dependant on so many more factors, such as days from roast date, grind coarseness (which could be indicated in relation to basket) or potential robusta in your blend...


----------



## winz

MWJB said:


> Time from flicking the brew switch, until you turn it off again (just before you actually see 30g on the scales). Ignore the time between turning off the switch & the scales catching the last few g of your shot, after killing the switch.
> 
> Try 16g at grinder setting 2 or 3 (assuming that you get no chirping from the grinder burrs).
> 
> Are you drinking all these as espresso, neat?
> 
> I'm a bit confused, you say you have 30g in the cup with thin crema, but you also say you have 2 ounces? Can't be both.
> 
> You can't see over-extraction, if shots are running fast under-extraction is more likely. Crema can't tell you which it is (I stir in my crema, or scoop it off anyway).


 Hey

i tried using a grind setting of 3 for Gaggia MDF. The portafilter started to choke and water/coffee started to leak (at a slow pace) from around the portafilter.

I managed get about 30g in 30 seconds though. Haha. Coffee came out sour.

Try Gaggia MDF setting 4 but at 17g ?

currently at 16g I see a small circle indentation in the puck.


----------



## lake_m

I think 17g for that basket is way too much.

As suggested previously, keep the dose at 14g or 15g maximum and then adjust the grind to finer. If you keep upping the dose as well you are altering two things at once and going around in circles.


----------



## winz

lake_m said:


> I think 17g for that basket is way too much.
> 
> As suggested previously, keep the dose at 14g or 15g maximum and then adjust the grind to finer. If you keep upping the dose as well you are altering two things at once and going around in circles.


 Okay got it!

But how do you keep the portafilter from choking/leaking ? I just changed the gasket so it's new. Only happens when I use setting 3 (I have not tried 1 or 2 yet)


----------



## Hasi

well, a group shouldn't leak at any time. Check the following:

- have you put in gasket the correct way round? (rounded edges facing up)

- have you kept everything clean? (no grounds on gasket or basket rim)

- have you removed every bit of old gasket or even managed to destroy parts of group head upon removing gasket?

- did you properly tighten all bolts when putting it back together?


----------



## MWJB

winz said:


> Okay got it!
> 
> But how do you keep the portafilter from choking/leaking ? I just changed the gasket so it's new. Only happens when I use setting 3 (I have not tried 1 or 2 yet)


 Which scales are you using? Seems odd you are only talking in terms of whole g, rather than to a decimal point.

Can you post a video, or describe your prep?

As @Hasi says, your group shouldn't be leaking, but if you have overfilled the basket, or tamped ridiculously hard, this will make choking more likely.

Choking (at an appropriate dose & with good prep) means you are way too fine on grind.


----------



## winz

MWJB said:


> Which scales are you using? Seems odd you are only talking in terms of whole g, rather than to a decimal point.
> 
> Can you post a video, or describe your prep?
> 
> As @Hasi says, your group shouldn't be leaking, but if you have overfilled the basket, or tamped ridiculously hard, this will make choking more likely.
> 
> Choking (at an appropriate dose & with good prep) means you are way too fine on grind.


 I'm using a scale up to 0.1.

I used the same grammage- 16g. This time I tamped a little. But it still chokes. I noticed that my machine doesn't choke from Gaggia MDF Setting 4 and above.

This process i roughly got about 35g (started at -0.9g), espresso in 33s. (stopped too late)

One possibility is I reduce the grammage to 15.5g to solve the leak?

Here's the videos:

My process


----------



## MWJB

33s isn't particularly long for shot time, I can't see the videos, so I can't see how bad the leak is. If it is very minor (though it shouldn't happen at all) I'm having trouble consolidating the phrase "choked" with a 33s shot?

+/-0.25g isn't going to be significant. Go straight to 15g and see what you get.


----------



## Hasi

just to clarify the term "choked": this means you're not getting anything out at all. If it pours slowly or starts the shot dripping there's nothing wrong.


----------



## lake_m

Ahhhhh you have a 2016 Classic. The dreaded Phillips half-way-house-not-really-a-Gaggia-Classic.

The leak is almost certainly down to a failed plastic shim on the inside rim of the group head. The shim will be either missing entirely or damaged. It is required to give additional upward force when locking in the portafilter. Quite possibly the worst piece of coffee machine design ever. And the bad news is........there are no spares available to repair it. Best you can do is a home 'bodge'. (Been there I'm afraid)

See this thread....

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/27476-gaggia-classic-2015-latest-problem/?do=embed


----------



## winz

lake_m said:


> Ahhhhh you have a 2016 Classic. The dreaded Phillips half-way-house-not-really-a-Gaggia-Classic.
> 
> The leak is almost certainly down to a failed plastic shim on the inside rim of the group head. The shim will be either missing entirely or damaged. It is required to give additional upward force when locking in the portafilter. Quite possibly the worst piece of coffee machine design ever. And the bad news is........there are no spares available to repair it. Best you can do is a home 'bodge'. (Been there I'm afraid)
> 
> See this thread....
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/27476-gaggia-classic-2015-latest-problem/?do=embed
> 
> Hey!
> 
> My Plastic Shims are still here tho.. So i need to get it changed?


----------



## lake_m

I think there has been some bodging going on but there is something there right enough. So we can assume all is good in the shim department.

The group gasket on these are completely different from the pre 2015 ones. They have a domed profile on the upper face that locates into a groove. Sometimes crap can get lodged under there. Have you taken it out and inspected it, also cleaned all the faces. Annoyingly new gaskets are quite pricey, but they must be the correct fit otherwise it will leak.


----------



## winz

lake_m said:


> I think there has been some bodging going on but there is something there right enough. So we can assume all is good in the shim department.
> 
> The group gasket on these are completely different from the pre 2015 ones. They have a domed profile on the upper face that locates into a groove. Sometimes crap can get lodged under there. Have you taken it out and inspected it, also cleaned all the faces. Annoyingly new gaskets are quite pricey, but they must be the correct fit otherwise it will leak.


 Yeah! I took out the gasket, cleaned the inside till there's no coffee stains or powder. Looks perfect. Then inserted one of the two new gaskets I ordered from gaggiadirect (specifically for my model). I thought it was the installation problem, then I replaced it with the 2nd gasket after a few days and after cleaning it as well.

could it really be that the grounds are too fine at 3? At 4, it flows ok


----------



## lake_m

Possibly, but it should not leak water from the gasket regardless off how much the machines chokes.


----------



## MWJB

winz said:


> could it really be that the grounds are too fine at 3? At 4, it flows ok


 Sorry, are you saying at 4 it flows OK and there is no leakage at all from the PF/group?

Earlier, you said that a 1:2 shot was taking 18s at 4 (this wouldn't be "OK flow").


----------



## winz

MWJB said:


> Sorry, are you saying at 4 it flows OK and there is no leakage at all from the PF/group?
> 
> Earlier, you said that a 1:2 shot was taking 18s at 4 (this wouldn't be "OK flow").


 Yup! No leak at 4,5,6 settings.

However, at setting 4, the flow was faster. I could try to tamp 16g harder at setting 4? Would that slow the flow down?


----------



## MWJB

winz said:


> Yup! No leak at 4,5,6 settings.
> 
> However, at setting 4, the flow was faster. I could try to tamp 16g harder at setting 4? Would that slow the flow down?


 You're not trying to just slow the flow, your trying to make nice, not sour shots. Tamping so hard that it slows the shot also means that you're likely going to prevent water passing evenly through the puck & your shots will just be slower, but still sour. Use the grind to shift extraction, at a consistent & reasonable tamp.


----------



## winz

Just curious...

When we say....

---

does 15g

output weight 30g in 30s

---

Because I'm doing a double shot, so I need to have two shot glasses to take the flow from each spout of the portafilter. Should each glass be 30g output? (Ie. total output for 30g ground is 60g espresso)

or does it mean, both spouts flow into 1 cup, and the total output from both spouts should be 30g from 15g grounds?

thank you!


----------



## MildredM

30g our total from 15g in









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## winz

Hey guys!

Would an *18g Ridge VST basket* fit the 2015 stock Gaggia Classic spouted portafilter?

Will it significantly make any difference in flavor and taste compared to the standard basket?

Thank you!


----------



## ashcroc

winz said:


> Hey guys!
> Would an *18g Ridge VST basket* fit the 2015 stock Gaggia Classic spouted portafilter?
> Will it significantly make any difference in flavor and taste compared to the standard basket?
> Thank you!


18g will fit. Much deeper & you'll be needing a bottomless pf though.


----------

