# Linea Mini vs Vesuvius



## MatBat

*Linea Mini vs Vesuvius*​
Linea Mini4153.95%Vesuvius3546.05%


----------



## MatBat

Which would you choose?

I have managed to acquire both at the same price and need to make a decision on which to keep.

Had the LM for about 6 months and just set up the Vesuvius and pulled the first few shots.

Clearly quite different machines in some respects and imagine there will be some clear views on preference.

Going to spend a few weeks with both and I'll post my findings and thoughts as I experiment more!


----------



## Syenitic

Looking forward to your impressions, there'll be no owners goggles involved.


----------



## matharon

Have used both and Vesuvius for me every time.


----------



## coffeechap

Syenitic said:


> Looking forward to your impressions, there'll be no owners goggles involved.


Ha ha actually by virtue of the fact he owns both machines there will be


----------



## haz_pro

Never used either of the machines, but the plastic paddle on the linea bothers me (irrationally so, when I see it in videos). So my vote would be for the V on looks alone.


----------



## Mrboots2u

If you can turn the pressure down on the mini to 6 bar flat , then that would probably do for me. I like the look of the Linea , despite having owned a V , i never fell in love with the looks.

Either should make amazing coffee.


----------



## Mrboots2u

haz_pro said:


> Never used either of the machines, but the plastic paddle on the linea bothers me (irrationally so, when I see it in videos). So my vote would be for the V on looks alone.


Looks line a mens urinal .... you may like that though









Looks like the wood finish on the V has changed from the original models ( it was shite on mine and i changed it )


----------



## MatBat

Mrboots2u said:


> If you can turn the pressure down on the mini to 6 bar flat , then that would probably do for me. I like the look of the Linea , despite having owned a V , i never fell in love with the looks.
> 
> Either should make amazing coffee.


yes I've been running the mini at 7 bar, might give 6 a try


----------



## Mrboots2u

MatBat said:


> yes I've been running the mini at 7 bar, might give 6 a try


Ok then i suggest you use the V to try and run long pre infusions .

You can seriously drop the water debit on the v by playing around with the pump settings too .


----------



## Thecatlinux

Just realised you can actually vote LOL. This poll will be interesting;-)


----------



## MatBat

Mrboots2u said:


> Ok then i suggest you use the V to try and run long pre infusions .
> 
> You can seriously drop the water debit on the v by playing around with the pump settings too .


Thanks. I'll look into that. Have been considering reducing the debit on the LM with the smaller gicleur but haven't been brave enough to try it yet.


----------



## Mrboots2u

MatBat said:


> Thanks. I'll look into that. Have been considering reducing the debit on the LM with the smaller gicleur but haven't been brave enough to try it yet.


I replaced the one on the V and put in a different shower screen to give it a bit more headroom. Its was a Kees screen.


----------



## 4085

Why not junk them both and buy a lever, after all, these pressure profiling machines always eventually settle on mimicking a lever profile!


----------



## MatBat

Does anyone have a view on the longevity / maintenance requirements / common issues for the V? The linea mini is rock solid and feels like very little can go wrong (especially given the simplicity). Interested to hear others' views


----------



## DavecUK

MatBat said:


> Does anyone have a view on the longevity / maintenance requirements / common issues for the V? The linea mini is rock solid and feels like very little can go wrong (especially given the simplicity). Interested to hear others' views


They have replaced the old combined pressurestat safety valve with separate units due to reliability issues when used with hard water and steam boiler on most of the time, there is a retrofit available (often given free) that may have been done on most early machines. So this isn't an area for problems any more (at least no more than on any other machine). I still have the old unit, but with the water I use, it has not give any problems. There was some production issues where a particular solenoid could block (the one controlling the separation between brew and steam boilers) which could split a PTFE tube, this was solved ages ago. *So these were the early production issues.*

The other area that has given the odd problem is the display plug comes loose and or text/1 colour can disappear from the display. In some instances it's definitely a bad connection on or other end of the ribbon cable (loose plug etc.), In others it might be the little display panel itself. Unfortunately diagnostics are not often done by the retailers. My own display no longer does the bluish colour properly, it's either a failed LED or a bad connection on the ribbon cable/plug. As it doesn't really affect anything and I tend to use the green display as normal on mine and it all looks normal, I have not bothered about it..

These have been the main issues on the forum that seem to come up.* I have not had any problems with mine in the 3.5 years I have owned it (and had to do zero maintenance apart from inspection/dusting).* Other than these areas, the V doesn't really have any other common issues and when I say common I do mean only a few....not that many, so "most" owners don't get these problems. The pumps, seem to have been rock solid as does the main electronics and they don't tend to be leaky machines, due to the use of PTFE piping in the main and decent o rings on the boiler heating elements.

Also don't be fooled by the prosumer/commercial grade thing with the Vesuvius, unlike most prosumer machines it mostly commercial grade stuff, well tried and tested over the years.

1. Ochrestrale control board (well respected 3 group commercial board) and the sensors used are all commercial grade as they work with this board.

2. Stainless steel solenoid valves (not brass)

3. Commercial Gear pump with steel gears and not the cheapest version of this pump (cheaper versions of the same pump is made, with less expensive seals/bearings and one with plastic teeth)

4. PTFE high pressure tubing with larger internal diameter than usual in prosumer machines. It may look the same grade as a Quickmill or a Verona but there is a world of difference

5. Front panel is around 4mm thick (including reinforcement) where the group is supported

6. Steel on rest of machine is 2 x thickness of prosumer machines

7. Boilers are 316S low corrosion surgical steel and 2mm thick with 12mm end plates (again you won't find the like in a prosumer machine, not thickness or grade

8. Pressure is controlled via a PID

So reliability should not really be an issue long term, *but as with all machines*, certain maintenance areas eventually go wrong, vacuum breakers have to be replaced, group gaskets need replacement, limit stats might eventually get over sensitive, etc.. The one advantage is if used as intended the V has much lower operating temperatures within it's very roomy case. This is good for reliability...

*The main thing to consider is that the V and the LM are different machines. One is a DB the other a DB with pressure profiling*. I use: a long 17s 2 bar preinfusion, followed by8s 10 bar.... 9 s 9 bar....8s 8 bar....3s 7 bar. I use a low pump acceleration, so it moves to these pressures more gradually, so think of them as peaks on a curve. I use these as my go to and they work really well with the 18g VST that Dave Kidd kindly gave me. In fact I use the VST with naked portafilter all the time now.

I hope the information above helps in your decision.

P.S. With a walk up shot no flushing, temps do seem spot on (when I measure them) with the V. This is measured at 93.5 set, which is the brew temp I prefer (mine has the offset as described in the user guide).

P.P.S I never liked the wood finish, glad they moved back to phenolic resin finish and the same portafilter as on the Verona (those are very nice).


----------



## Tewdric

You need an option 3 which is sell both and buy a Londinium.


----------



## MatBat

Thanks @DavecUK, very helpful and informative (as was the user manual)

I'll do some more research on the advanced settings, but would you mind letting me know which parameter controls the pump acceleration and what you set it to?

I'm not sure if you implied it above, but the LM is a DB also, not a HX


----------



## DavecUK

MatBat said:


> Thanks @DavecUK, very helpful and informative (as was the user manual)
> 
> I'll do some more research on the advanced settings, but would you mind letting me know which parameter controls the pump acceleration and what you set it to?
> 
> I'm not sure if you implied it above, but the LM is a DB also, not a HX


I've corrected the text re DB/HX, I had HX on the brain thinking about reliability and heat vs other prosumer machines and dual boilers. It meant to say the difference between the machines was pressure profiling.

PWM kP = 10.5, 0.24, 90 (this is the PID settings for pressure

PWM Max Accel = 300 (this is my setting for pump acceleration)

To get into settings turn V off on touch screen, then touch top left of touch screen for about 7 seconds.

I


----------



## Stanic

I'd go with the Vesuvius


----------



## kennyboy993

Quite a few consecutive shots might differentiate these machines I'd guess - with the LM doing better?


----------



## jeebsy

Defo get the restrictors for the LM


----------



## MatBat

kennyboy993 said:


> Quite a few consecutive shots might differentiate these machines I'd guess - with the LM doing better?


Yes the LM is a real workhorse, no doubt about that. Able to cope in low volume commercial settings. Less of an issue for me as i mainly make coffee for just myself. Although it does give me the ability start a coffee cart business if I want... nahhhh


----------



## MatBat

jeebsy said:


> Defo get the restrictors for the LM


Does it make a noticeable difference?


----------



## cambosheff

Depends on what you read and how much weight you put in it. After speaking to LM I was told they fitted an 0.8mm one to avoid issues if the cleaning schedule / water quality isn't good, with the 0.6 being more susceptible to clogging it either of those two situations are met. I've had zero issues with the body/mouth feel of shots (which is what some say it improves) with the 0.8mm one and see little to no reason in changing it. In the time I've had it (not long) the equasion has been s**t coffee in, s**t coffee out. When I've used better beans its been as good as any I've had.


----------



## Obnic

My Vesuvius is number 7. I've only had to change one waterline with a pin hole leak. Has worked flawlessly, virtually everyday since it arrived 3+ years ago.

I customised the handles with some beautiful hand turned oiled wood that looks the business. (See Xpenno's 'I've got wood' thread.). This really lifted the machine in my opinion.

A short flush makes temperature more consistent but it's an E61 group not a saturated one.


----------



## Obnic

I know nothing about the LM but I do value the profiling features of the V. After the initial V rabbit hole madness, I've stabilised on the following five profiles:

P1: 12s preinfusion, declining profile from 12bar to 7bar over 34s. This changes but broadly speaking it's my darker bean lever emulator.

P2: flat 2bar for manually controlled preinfusion then switch to P3 or P5

P3: flat 6bar, can work very well especially for lighter beans and very fine grinds.

P5: flat 9bar, a classic machine profile that in combination with P2 can get toward emulating slayer style shots.

P4: gets changed often as I get a fix on a particular bean then set this profile up for a 'single press' shot for SWMBO.

Personally, I really believe profiling adds something to the beautiful game of espresso extraction.


----------



## MatBat

Thanks @Obnic. I wasn't aware you could switch profiles between shots, will give that a go. I am enjoying playing around with the profiles, although not enough yet to form a clear view (other than it's really fun for now), I think mainly because I haven't been testing on the right beans yet. Just finished a bag of A Rwandan bean from origin (Kanzu) which firstly wasn't the most tasty bean I've come across imo and secondly it was very easy to work with and extracted nicely without profiling (no noticeable difference between LM and V). What I'm looking forward to is trying out some more difficult and lighter roasted beans which is where I think i'll find to bigger differences in the two machines. The LM does very well for most beans but I've found it can struggle with the lighter roasts due to the lack of PI and high water debit. I have some L&S geisha and the Notes LSOL to come should give more interesting comparisons


----------



## Rhys

I've never fancied the LM since the big paddle/lever on the front is only a switch and you can't control pre-infusion. If it actually controlled pressure/flow that would make a big difference - although it looks good.. The V has functionality but lacks in looks (to me anyway).

I nearly went for one of the 'cheap' Vesuvii (plural?) that were on offer.. Happy that I didn't though.


----------



## jlarkin

How are your deliberations going Mat? Out of interest, what grinder have you got them paired up with?


----------



## spoxehub

I'd take the LM on the basis they're a bit more unusual. But that's just me.


----------



## caffeinejunkie

These were the two machines I was contemplating prior to buying the Vesuvius so I'll be interested to hear what you decide on!


----------



## Wajid

I really like the Linea Mini - but I'd want to replace the paddle and guide with a metal or wood version. The V is pretty hardcore too it seems...


----------



## Aidy

Just to make things more interesting, given your for sale thread, I thought I'd tie the draw for you


----------



## coffeechap

Just to keep it fair I have put the Lm ahead again if purely for the group, which owning he gs3 I can say is just the most solid on temperature stability. Plus the Vesuvius is just not pretty!


----------



## Flying_Vee

The vesuvius has now squeaked a lead.

While it may not win on looks, all that tweaking pressure and pre-infusion revs my engine.

(disclaimer I've never seen either in the flesh let alone used one)


----------



## cambosheff

Linea Mini +1


----------



## koi

On the lookout for a smaller machine. How are you finding the build quality on the Linea? Any issues?


----------



## MrBaozi

koi said:


> On the lookout for a smaller machine. How are you finding the build quality on the Linea? Any issues?


I've got a Linea mini. Built like a tank. Comparable to a commercial Linea PB that I got to use during training when I first ventured into coffee.

However my experience with machines from different manufactures is extremely limited so can't really compare.


----------



## EspressoGuy

matharon said:


> Have used both and Vesuvius for me every time.


I'd love to learn more about the reason(s) for your preference for the Vesuvius. Based only on what I've read about both machines, I have been impressed by the Vesuvius' remarkable feature set (precise pressure, brew temp and flow control) and its quality internals (stainless boilers & tubing). Of course, since the proof is in the cup (for me, anyway), I'm also quite eager to find out how you'd rate or compare the espresso shots you are producing with each machine.


----------



## matharon

Both are great machines but I have owned a V for almost 2 years and son has a Lm which I use when visiting.

Build etc and ability to "play" with profiles were decider for me but each to their own and many will probably end up with a favourite profile that matches their preferred style of bean.

However, the ability to tweak when I am so minded is a definite plus although mainly a 10sec pre infuse medium ramp up and slow down is my go to with darker beans eg Chatswood which give to me what I think is a very full smooth espresso and an excellent base for flat whites with 18g in and 36g out.

I must also admit I spent time with both "Daves" before deciding on Londinium or V and had great advice from both - also on grinders where both swayed to towards a s/h E92 which has been much enjoyed.

Shame you are so far away but try and find a user of either/both to experience if you are still undecided.


----------

