# Choosing an Expresso Machine on a Budget



## VickyT (Oct 25, 2015)

Hi I am new and thank you for reading my post. Within a larger food and drink complex I run a small kitchen mainly serving coffees, teas and milkshakes. We serve around 40 cappuccinos and lattes a day with a near constant demand between 9.30 and 12 noon. We are confined by space, electrical usage and budget but our demand has grown such that our small Delongi machine could not cope and broke. We just need to make Expressos, as we froth our milk by hand, but with minimum effort a the staff are very busy and working in a confined space. We also used ready ground coffee so do not need an integrated grinder. Asthetics and the perfect cup of coffee are not as important as durability, speed and cost.

I am looking for any advice on purchasing a replacement machine, hopefully for less than £500.

Thank you for your help.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

How do you froth the milk by hand?

its espresso not expresso

how did you serve 40 coffees a day using a domestic machine?? No wonder it broke

sounds as if you don't value the end product you're selling so unfortunately I doubt you will get much assistance on this forum


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

This is a totally different environment and modus operandi to the conversations we normally see on here so let me start by asking what model Delongi you have been using?

I guess that for a start we need to know if that machine used a portafilter or not

EDIT: Your comment of 40 a day and constant demand 9:30 to 12;00 seem to be at odds with each other. Did you mean 40 an hour when it is busy?


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## coffeebean (Jan 26, 2010)

Hi, for 40 drinks a day you won' t do better than a Cherub! They are reliable and built like tanks and I can do you a new one for £750 delivered (a bit more than your stated budget but at least you will be serving great coffee from it if you get your beans and grinder right!!)


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

From their first post I think it's highly unlikely they'll be spending 750


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Fevmeister said:


> From their first post I think it's highly unlikely they'll be spending 750


Or making particularly good coffee, a jar of instant could be their perfect solution

Ian


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Go easy on the lady fella - she's obviously just trying to keep colleagues or customers happy on a £500 budget and looking for some friendly advice - not trying to rock the speciality coffee world. Of course pre ground is not ideal, and I think any suggestions we make on here could fall at the 'works with pre ground' hurdle. I think there are plenty of people on here who would be happy to try to help Vicky but we might not have the answers due to the unusual nature of her operating conditions. Fair question about how they foam their milk without a steam wand though. But then what machine at £500 could pull shots and foam milk at the rate she needs?


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

My suggestion would be to look into leasing a machine - try someone like @coffee_omega who offers leasing deals. That way you can factor in a grinder as well. Get some training and then you're set to increase the quality and profits. You'll also not be limited to 40 cappuccinos per day and will have the capacity to do that per hour (providing the staff are trained to that level also)


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

VickyT said:


> Hi I am new and thank you for reading my post. Within a larger food and drink complex I run a small kitchen mainly serving coffees, teas and milkshakes. We serve around 40 cappuccinos and lattes a day with a near constant demand between 9.30 and 12 noon. We are confined by space, electrical usage and budget but our demand has grown such that our small Delongi machine could not cope and broke. We just need to make Expressos, as we froth our milk by hand, but with minimum effort a the staff are very busy and working in a confined space. We also used ready ground coffee so do not need an integrated grinder. Asthetics and the perfect cup of coffee are not as important as durability, speed and cost.
> 
> I am looking for any advice on purchasing a replacement machine, hopefully for less than £500.
> 
> Thank you for your help.


A used Fracino heavenly, not particularly popular, can be bought for £300 in good condition, has a large boiler, very powerful heating element, decent steamer and will do the coffees per day you require. In fact, it's quite fair to say it was designed to do so. ...it's only problem is a ridiculously small drip tray, but a friend with a drill and a bit of plumbing stuff, tube and a bucket can solve that problem, or you empty the drip tray VERY regularly. Might have even been one on the for sale forum on here. The only other Niggle for me with the heavenly is the stupid water tank design, you actually have to remove the top and physically remove (unscrew bits) to deep clean the water tank and I do mean remove the top (about 8 Allen screws). It's why a lot of them appear to have "brown" tanks...eek!

However, it will certainly meet your needs.

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27361-FOR-SALE-Fracino-Heavenly-%A3300-amp-Mazzer-Royal-%A3350

being sold by @MrChris, as you don't have the post count to access that forum and our silly rules, hopefully he will see himself mentioned in this message and give you a heads up....but he only wants £300 for his heavenly and and £350 for his Mazzer Royal

So for 650, you have machine and very decent grinder (well up for commercial use) once you put back certain parts of the grinder as it has been modded for home use. This could make the grinder unsuitable if you don't want to single dose it as a hopper and all the parts might well add too much cost.

it also sounds like your business is emergent and I would strongly recommend against leasing at this point in time. If you bought this used machine, you would quite easily get a good amount of your money back if you decided to sell it...the grinder will actually do for your current business/location, whatever volumes you are likely to get and machine you decide to buy once bought more back to standard (but may be too expensive to do so)..


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

@DaveC - the rules for the for sale forum are much more lenient than many other forums - please respect them as they are there for a reason - the protection of members


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## MrChris (Aug 18, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up DaveC.

Glenn, out of respect for the rules of the forum, I have not PM'd the OP. Hopefully she can contribute 5 posts and access the For Sale area.

VickyT, I would imagine the Heavenly would work in the environment you describe. I would strongly encourage a grinder to accompany the machine - it works out barely more complex than preground. Although the Royal may not be the best choice...

Chris


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Glenn said:


> @DaveC - the rules for the for sale forum are much more lenient than many other forums - please respect them as they are there for a reason - the protection of members


I am forced to respect them but it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to say I think they are silly does it, or does it? I have showed this seller nothing they couldn't see from the title of the thread and the original poster, information they can see with no post coundt edit...ah I see I have, sorry didn't realise they couldn't even see the titles

The main problem is the generation of spurious posts simply to get the post count high enough to access the for sale forum...which is the way new members seem to get round it, this I don't see as added value for the forum, or for the seller?


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## insatiableOne (Jul 29, 2015)

You are definitely in a tough spot there, as espresso & cheap do not go well together.

I used a Delonghi machine about 20 some odd years ago, it was a ~ top to middle of the pack at the time. My last machine I suffered using a GOOD Bodem french press + already had a decent grinder while saving up for a modest machine.

Feel you might be doing your customers a disservice by serving them swill from stale pre-ground grounds.

Glen had the best idea of renting a modest espresso machine / grinder combo. Thinking that at the very least good quality shots will net you more dividends in the long run, more patrons as well. Coffee people will never come back for a bad cup twice. Word of mouth can make or break a business.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Dave: it is mostly obvious when a new member spams their way to the required posts for the F/S section, and it is not looked on kindly. Discouraging unknown members from that section is a sensible thing, regardless of how silly you may find it. Actively encouraging others to break the rules would on any other forum get a ban, this forum is awfully lenient however. Not suggesting you should be banned dave, you contribute a lot, but it's easy enough to respect the rules of the place.

There is aa Brasilia RR45 for sale that would accompany that Heavenly nicely in a low volume shop, and for £60!


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## frederickaj (Jul 31, 2014)

I'm not too sure of prices but there must be some used bean to cup machines that would suit . You will no longer need to use the sh**y ground coffee and the machine versatility will surely ( don't call me shirley ) suite your needs .

I had my eye on a used gaggia syncrony the other day that sold for under £200 .Out of my price range but seemed to do everything you need .


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Commercial B2C machines are typically very expensive and S/H risky. Domestic ones would break in no time doing that much coffee.

Maybe a lease on a commercial B2C would suit, but depends on the affordability for what sounds like a caf.


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## frederickaj (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeh , you are probably right . There seems to be a load of faulty machines on the various Ebays


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## VickyT (Oct 25, 2015)

Wow a lot of useful advice and some scathing so perhaps I should expand. I am an Army wife who moved to Kenya when my husband was posted here. The soldiers had no facility outside the cook house so I took on a kitchen the size of a broom cupboard. We are not trying to produce the the most sophisticated cup of coffee but provide from a confined space, with somewhat limited power suppliers (I have been off line all day due to there being no power) a satisfactory cup of coffee which is not instant. Java, a local company grind some very pleasant coffee for us and we froth our milk by heating it in the microwave and then frothing by hand. We have returned to an aeropress for making our Expressos which works well but is time consuming and hard for my staff.

Out turnover, compared with the UK is low, hence my cost constraints and I will have the costs of importing to add. Unfortunately leasing is out but I hope to keep involved with the forum, if not scared off, and can then look at the Buy and Sell section which might be a good route for me. Please do not be too harsh on me. I am trying to provide a service with many constraints and was just looking for some friendly advice from people in the know instead of getting confused searching the net.


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## VickyT (Oct 25, 2015)

Thank you. I will look at this model


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I can put you in touch with a local supplier in Kenya if you like. He has access to machines, parts and coffee. Although it sounds like you might only need the machine and grinder to be replaced.

Using a steam wand on the machine will be a much better experience than a microwave / manual frother.


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## VickyT (Oct 25, 2015)

You may have seen my further comment that I am in Kenya and operate on the British Army base out of a kitchen the size of a broom cupboard. The greatest demand is actually for milkshakes so we have had to buy high quality blenders. Compared with the UK our business and number of customers is small but we are just trying to provide a decent cup of coffee for the soldiers within the constraints I have. Sorry I do not have the Delongi make as someone is trying to fix it.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

Any REME detachment nearby? The reason I ask is that some machines are easier than others to maintain so it would make sense to me to go with a non electronic version that they might be better able to look after in an emergency even in such remote climes. This is also true with the power supply you describe. How much power can you have....are you limited in Kw? There are a couple of Fracino's that fit the bill I think but secondhand to hit your pricepoint. Once you have enough posts, keep an eye on machines for sale here as they have often had the tlc of an enthusiast and as such are likely to meet the longevity requirements of being "abroad"

Makes a lot more sense with this extra info. I tip my hat to you Vicky for trying to provide better coffee for the lads in these adverse conditions... hell, even in UK they only get bean to cup and then probably Costa or the like.


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## mrsimba (Mar 17, 2014)

Welcome Vicky I'm sure now as you've provided the further information on your needs hopefully there will be some good feedback for you - sounds like your doing a very valuable job!

Theres a used Heavenly on eBay for not too much with just over a day to go -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fracino-Heavenly-Espresso-Machine-/281833123927?hash=item419e903057:g:53AAAOSwAYtWJUDx

And as everyone here will recommend a grinder to match it is an essential really, & if you can find some space for it this should easily be within budget with a used machine

Best of luck!


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## VickyT (Oct 25, 2015)

grumpydaddy said:


> Any REME detachment nearby? The reason I ask is that some machines are easier than others to maintain so it would make sense to me to go with a non electronic version that they might be better able to look after in an emergency even in such remote climes. This is also true with the power supply you describe. How much power can you have....are you limited in Kw? There are a couple of Fracino's that fit the bill I think but secondhand to hit your pricepoint. Once you have enough posts, keep an eye on machines for sale here as they have often had the tlc of an enthusiast and as such are likely to meet the longevity requirements of being "abroad"
> 
> Makes a lot more sense with this extra info. I tip my hat to you Vicky for trying to provide better coffee for the lads in these adverse conditions... hell, even in UK they only get bean to cup and then probably Costa or the like.


Thank you for your support. My Landlord is ex. REME but not sure he wants to mend coffee machines and yes, maintenance and repairs are an issue. Power I guess domestic as I have to be careful not to overload our supply: could not have a dedicated supply for it.


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## Jakester (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi If you look around there are used machines around. I bought a Wega 2 group with grinder for £400 ish. I still use the grinder. The machine I did up and sold it on. But it is a nice simple beast that is easily fixed as all parts are available for it. I now have a 1 group machine which I also had to do a little work on but it was just a new element cost around £25 quid. Its plumbed in and just a normal plug. But ideal size for your needs. You can steam and brew at the same time. Do you have someone in UK? that could look around for you and ship out as most of the cheap stuff is collection only. I reckon for less than £500 you should be able to get a nice setup.


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