# Help me dial this new coffee (Brazilian light roast)



## tripleshot (Jun 3, 2020)

I bought a bag of coffee beans from my local coffee shop (Urban Baristas). This was previously branded Boa Vista Union but it's now sold exclusively through Urban Baristas from what I can see https://www.urbanbaristas.co.uk/products/boa-vista-coffee-for-espresso (still roasted by Union). The coffee was roasted on 5th August so time to drink it!

I asked what recipe they use and the barista said 16g in, 30g out in 25s @ 93C. Now the bag says this is a light roast and 1200-1350 MADL altitude. Does the suggested recipe make sense to you?

I'm not experienced enough but I thought that light roasted beans benefit from higher brew temp, spending a bit more time with the water and longer brew ratios because they are denser? (I'm also a bit skeptical because when I asked for the recipe they looked at me like they didn't know what I was asking. When I asked the brew temp they said the machine doesn't show that -- only for them to look closer and see it right there on the machine duh)

If I hadn't asked, and with Red Brick as the only other coffee I've got experience with (which I know is on the lighter side of medium roast) I'd have picked 18-36g in 32s @ 95C as a starting point or 18-40g in 32s @ 94C. What would you suggest as a starting point given the profile of this coffee?

The other thing is, I already have an 18g basket on my portafilter and my leveller and push tamper already set for that basket and not keen to change to a 15g basket (I do have one). So if I wanted to stick to the barista's suggested ratio, how would I adjust the dose in/out? Is it as simple as 30/16 = 1.87 and then multiply by 18g (I have a feeling it's not as simple as that!)

Thanks!


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

The recipe they gave you only makes sense in the context of their grinder, their machine, their water etc.

Give it a go using a typical 1:2-2.25 with the 18g basket you're used to and come back after you've done a shot or two and tell us what's wrong (with the taste!) and sure we can guide you after. Only thing I'd suggest is that 95c is very rarely going to be the best temperature to use, but that presumes your machine measures accurately with the correct offset and your shot routine is such that you're actually getting 95c. Assuming it is, you'll find most beans are happier around 93-93.5c (and then as an exception, adjust temp if need be).


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Your Red Brick sounds like a sensible place to start. As you say it is a lighter roast but relatively low grown. Give it a go and see what you think. Adjust from there.

As for your push tamper you will find that even if you are using the same weight of coffee you will probably need to make adjustments to it allow for different density of coffee. Weight may well be the same but volume will likely be different.

Yes you are correct re the ratio. So 18g would be 33.6g.


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## tripleshot (Jun 3, 2020)

Ah my intuition wasn't far off the mark then. I went with 19g in, 43g out @ 94C (temp that I have set for Red Brick) and it came out in 41s. So grind was too fine but coffee was nice. I expected the first attempt to be a disaster! I do struggle to distinguish what's different about these beans compared to my usual. My palate just doesn't seem developed enough to go beyond "this is nice/nicer/worse/disgusting". 
Thanks!


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

tripleshot said:


> Ah my intuition wasn't far off the mark then. I went with 19g in, 43g out @ 94C (temp that I have set for Red Brick) and it came out in 41s. So grind was too fine but coffee was nice. I expected the first attempt to be a disaster! I do struggle to distinguish what's different about these beans compared to my usual. My palate just doesn't seem developed enough to go beyond "this is nice/nicer/worse/disgusting".
> Thanks!


 A small amount of hot water into the espresso really opens up the flavours particularly if you're not used to tasting espresso, really helps to dial in imo.


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## tripleshot (Jun 3, 2020)

Sorry are you talking about pre-infusion? I have a Profitec Pro 700 which has that option but I'm still trying to master the basics before I throw in an extra variable!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

No I mean if you're dialling in, trying to identify tasting notes, figuring out what you do/don't like about a shot, sometimes diluting it with some hot water for what I suppose is a short americano can help. Also remember to let it cool!


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

tripleshot said:


> Sorry are you talking about pre-infusion? I have a Profitec Pro 700 which has that option but I'm still trying to master the basics before I throw in an extra variable!


How can the Profitec have pre-infusion?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> How can the Profitec have pre-infusion?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I think it just has line pressure preinfusion


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

catpuccino said:


> I think it just has line pressure preinfusion


Agreed. But is that Profitec plumbed in?

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## tripleshot (Jun 3, 2020)

No it's not plumbed in. Does that mean I can't take advantage of pre infusion? I think I saw a video on WLL that said you could use it on water tank but differently. Can't recall exactly, I'd need to check. But anyway pre-infusion wasn't a key factor in the purchase decision but would be a shame if I couldn't use it.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

tripleshot said:


> No it's not plumbed in. Does that mean I can't take advantage of pre infusion? I think I saw a video on WLL that said you could use it on water tank but differently. Can't recall exactly, I'd need to check. But anyway pre-infusion wasn't a key factor in the purchase decision but would be a shame if I couldn't use it.


 You'll get a trickle of water if you use the lever mid point when tank fed, but it's not going to offer any real advantage certainly not like true pre-infusion. When you are plumbed in the pre-infusion uses the pressure of your supply (ideally ~2bar).


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## tripleshot (Jun 3, 2020)

Ah that's a shame. Maybe will consider plumbing at some point in the future then.

As you've all been so kind with advice I was wondering if you could confirm something for me regarding adjusting a recipe to suit a given basket size.

With red brick I'm dosing 19g at a time and I'm having around 3 coffees a day (and I feel at the upper end of caffeinated !). I'm considering dropping down to a lower dose in order to have more coffees per day and increase my practice (shots+milk steaming). I have a 15g basket. Using red brick as an example am I right in thinking that it's as simple as 15g in, 30g out (for 1:2 ratio) in the same amount of time (28-32s)? Also, would I expect to have to adjust grind size at all? Intuitively it feels like I shouldn't but could be wrong?

Thanks


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Your thinking on dose and timing are correct but you can pull longer or shorter, be guided by taste ( to your liking)

REF 15 gm basket they are renowned for difficulty to master. Also you will need to change the grind .


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

tripleshot said:


> Also, would I expect to have to adjust grind size at all? Intuitively it feels like I shouldn't but could be wrong?


 You'll have to grind quite a bit finer (you're looking for a similar puck resistance but have a more shallow puck), and as @El carajillo 15g baskets can be tricky. Also consider whether a 15g dose will give you what you want in terms of the espresso cutting through you milk drinks.

But - go for it! I used a 15g VST for a few months, works for me though I did switch back to 18g. I think @MildredM uses 15g baskets?


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## tripleshot (Jun 3, 2020)

Thanks. What is it about the 15g baskets that make them difficult to master? And out of curiousity, does this mean the other end of the spectrum I.e 22g baskets are more forgiving?

I use medium or light roast coffees and I've discovered I prefer the longer shots so cutting an 18g shot short won't really work for me I don't think.

Re milk, I'd cut down the milk accordingly and keep the coffee/milk ratio the same.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

catpuccino said:


> think @MildredM uses 15g baskets?


 I am using 14g HQ now with L-R and MAX dosing 16g and this works for me with this set up.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Having used a 15g vst with three differing machine's over the years, I can say it teaches you thing's...the true meaning of spritzers  and proper prep. Once mastered they are as easy as any other.


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