# Got the 2015 Gaggia Classic as present, what to do?



## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Hi, new to the forum here.

I've been wanting an espresso machine for a while and my GF gave me as a present the Gaggia Classic, which seemed to be a solid machine. However upon more research I find out that the 2015 model I have (RI9403/11) is very different internally and inferior to the older versions. On top of that the machine only comes with a pressurized basket so I would need to buy a decent tamper & new basket before I could even start making decent espresso. Furthermore in the old gaggia classic it seems it was quite easy to reset the pressure to 9bar however I don't know how it is with the new one.

I haven't been very happy with the results I got so far with the stock setup as changing grind etc doesn't seem to make much difference at all.

I already had a decent grinder (Ascaso i-1) for a while which I've been using for Aeropress & French Press. Do you think it's worthwhile getting the proper basket etc for this machine, or should I just return it? Would love to hear any experiences with the 2015 Gaggia Classic.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

If it won't offend your GF too much I would consider returning it whilst you can. You can then pick up a S/H classic or a superior starter machine like the Sage DTP. If you get a S/H classic you will have spare cash left over for accessories.

Welcome also!


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

From what I remember those that have put a pressure gauge on it have found it is around the 9bar mark anyway, even though it states 15bar.

I have one and would say with out having a pressure gauge it is definitely lower on pressure than my pre 2015 gaggia classic.

It did benefit greatly from changing to a non pressurised basket rather than the stock pressurised one.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> From what I remember those that have put a pressure gauge on it have found it is around the 9bar mark anyway, even though it states 15bar.
> 
> I have one and would say with out having a pressure gauge it is definitely lower on pressure than my pre 2015 gaggia classic.
> 
> It did benefit greatly from changing to a non pressurised basket rather than the stock pressurised one.


Thanks, are you happy with the shots from the non pressurised basket with the 2015 classic? Getting a basket will definitely be less hassle and probably cheaper than getting another new machine.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

the_partisan said:


> Thanks, are you happy with the shots from the non pressurised basket with the 2015 classic? Getting a basket will definitely be less hassle and probably cheaper than getting another new machine.


I was happy with the quality of the shots once I switched from pressurised to un pressurised on the 2015 (RI9403/11) gaggia classic.

I was happy with its steaming ability.

I was not happy about the constant dripping from the brew head once it had been used for a few months (not my video, but exactly the same problem) due to the mechanical valve used instead of the solenoid valve on previous models.

I would suggest you keep the box and internal packaging and receipt just in case


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## Vieux Clou (Oct 22, 2014)

They seem to have taken 1½ steps back and one forward, the latter being the stainless boiler, something I'd far rather have than aluminium. But pressurized filter + crappy plastic pouring spout = eugh - but replaceable eugh so not deadly.

I'd kiss the GF (assuming that doesn't stand for Grandfather), say thanks and then update under the general heading of "this is great - hey look I can get this and this and this for it".

ETA: OTOH the post-whatsit drip is not endearing, not one little bit.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I believe some people have demanded a full refund based upon the fact the 2015 is 1050watts but is marketed as being 1300watts


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm soldering on with my 2015 if it helps, partly because of the larger SS boiler - I've had the aluminium ones in cheaper machines and felt they were a price compromise. Personally I'm getting good shots from it with a non pressurised basket and of course an MC2 grinder to get the beans fine enough, part of me thinks Philips have messed up part of it and improved part as mentioned above.

I would be tempted to try a 14g basket as well as doing the whole stand on one leg preheat cup, group head, basket, run. Around the church 3 times shouting crackerjack, weigh 14g in and 30g out, read up on over and under extraction, cross yourself three times and line up machine with magnetic north and see how it goes, the tweaking and routine are part of the experience.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> I'm soldering on with my 2015 if it helps, partly because of the larger SS boiler - I've had the aluminium ones in cheaper machines and felt they were a price compromise. Personally I'm getting good shots from it with a non pressurised basket and of course an MC2 grinder to get the beans fine enough, part of me thinks Philips have messed up part of it and improved part as mentioned above.
> 
> I would be tempted to try a 14g basket as well as doing the whole stand on one leg preheat cup, group head, basket, run. Around the church 3 times shouting crackerjack, weigh 14g in and 30g out, read up on over and under extraction, cross yourself three times and line up machine with magnetic north and see how it goes, the tweaking and routine are part of the experience.


Thanks, any advice on where to get a basket from?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

ebay for under a tener http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Double-14g-Shot-Portafilter-Basket-Non-Pressurised-Gaggia-Coffee-Machine-Maker-/400458974822?hash=item5d3d370666:g:Nn0AAOSwf-VWUI-9

Or just Google 14g gaggia non pressurised basket if you prefer a proper shop such as - http://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/SearchResults.aspx?Search=gaggia+14g+double+filter+basket+-+1160262

You might want to get a bottomless portafilter (they include a 14g non pressurised basket for about £23) http://www.happydonkey.co.uk/gaggia-bottomless-portafilter.html

Happy Donkey - has a great reputation on these forums so you might want to just get the 14g basket from them as well. (plus get some Puly Caf for descaling and cleaning the portafilter and shower screen).

Other common problems - ALL supermarket beans suck - find a local roaster or order online or roast your own green beans.

I think the 2015 Gaggia gets a worse press than it deserves the older gaggia has a number of common faults and issues with a smaller boiler and a cheaper boiler - the point is the 2015 is able to make great espresso. If you take the top lid off and have a look inside the quality of the wiring and other components are still excellent and well finished. Jumbo Ratty has both machines and confirmed that they both make great espresso - The 2015 model gets a lot of stick from people who don't own it and the fact that Philips now own Gaggia and outsourced production to Romania panics many ( but then Tata own Jaguar / land Rover). Doesn't help that they modified a machine that a lot of people have had 20yrs of service from, but the old model had some design flaws and our EU Cylon overlords have imposed Wattage limits on domestic appliances so something had to change - Ive only been an owner for 3 months myself so I might start swearing yet but for the moment I'm keeping with it and seeing where it goes and enjoying the coffee.

The alternative is to buy an older classic but eventually people tend to upgrade to £500 - £600 machines which is great and they offer slight improvements here and there but in my mind the classic 2015 can produce great shots and develop skills with, (I'm still holding my receipt close by though).


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## Dicci (Feb 9, 2015)

I bought a 2015 Classic just over a year ago and made some good coffee with it. I then read so many posts on here about how much better the older version is that I bought one from ebay to compare... I haven't used the 2015 version since.

Having used both, I prefer the espresso I get from the older version (having done both OPV and PID mods), although I think the steamer is better on the newer version, especially when paired with a silvia steam wand. I've not yet managed to get the same quality microfoam on the older version.

If I was drinking flat whites I'd have probably stuck with the newer version, but I mainly drink espresso and the microfoam I get is good enough for the occasional cappuccino drinking guests!


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I've got the non pressurized basket now and haven't been getting good results with it. The coffee seems to flow quite fast no matter how fine I grind, and when I grind too fine I can feel small grains of coffee in the cup. What do you think the problem is? Is it my grinder which is not even (Ascaso i-1) or that the pressure on the classic too high?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

the_partisan said:


> I've got the non pressurized basket now and haven't been getting good results with it. The coffee seems to flow quite fast no matter how fine I grind, and when I grind too fine I can feel small grains of coffee in the cup. What do you think the problem is? Is it my grinder which is not even (Ascaso i-1) or that the pressure on the classic too high?


Hi , are you weighing the coffee and output in say 25 or 30 seconds.

Ie 15 grams dry coffee into portafilter then turn on pump and after 25-30 seconds how much wet coffee is in cup should be aprox 30grams.

Are you using a 58mm tamper or the dire plastic one that came with it?

If flow is too strong then chances are the coffee should be finer or tamped better.

Cheers Jim


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Hi , are you weighing the coffee and output in say 25 or 30 seconds.
> 
> Ie 15 grams dry coffee into portafilter then turn on pump and after 25-30 seconds how much wet coffee is in cup should be aprox 30grams.
> 
> ...


I have an espresso gear 58mm tamper and tamping as hard as I can, which should be about 15kg of pressure. The flow seems kind of uneven, and seems to blond quite early. I think it takes less than 20secs to get 60g of liquid. Also with the very fine grind, I get a lot of lumps from grinder and also the texture of the coffee feels grainy. I was getting better tasting coffee with the pressurized basket. Does anyone know what the pressure is set to in the new model gaggia classic?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tamping as hard as you can will likely be more than 15kg pressure, it'seasy to exceed 5kg even with a light tamp.

What is the weight of your dose, in the basket/PF?

60g in 20s sounds like you need to grind finer, if you have an appropriate dose.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

the_partisan said:


> I have an espresso gear 58mm tamper and tamping as hard as I can, which should be about 15kg of pressure. The flow seems kind of uneven, and seems to blond quite early. I think it takes less than 20secs to get 60g of liquid. Also with the very fine grind, I get a lot of lumps from grinder and also the texture of the coffee feels grainy. I was getting better tasting coffee with the pressurized basket. Does anyone know what the pressure is set to in the new model gaggia classic?


Hi I think the recommended tamp pressure is about 20lb - 15kg would make it about 30lb - I tried tamping really hard but it seems to cause fractures and uneven flow in the puck, some press and twist some just press and quite lightly. The other aspect is getting the press level so you don't get a lob sided puck.

While getting the grind right things like uneven tamp or too much tamp pressure can cause the grind you set to be too course or too fine.

I've been fiddling around with grind and tamp trying to be more consistent myself - part of the fun !!

Are you getting any flow past the outside of the portafilter - keeping the group head seal clean is. Important as well.

Are you warming up the machine and portafilter - if going from cold at start up try warming up the portafilter and basket in a mug of just boiled water - also prewarm your cup in the same way.

To get the grind, tamp input output right be prepared to waste a bag of cheap beans in one session - and be surrounded by cups.

Did you get a 14g or 21g basket?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I should have mentioned - there is a theory that the 2015 model is actually 9 bar and not 15bar as advertised - a few people have tested the pressure at the basket and got 9 bar - I'm getting a pressure tester to see if this is correct.

Also tap the basket once the cove is in it before tamping to level it out.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

MWJB said:


> Tamping as hard as you can will likely be more than 15kg pressure, it'seasy to exceed 5kg even with a light tamp.
> 
> What is the weight of your dose, in the basket/PF?
> 
> 60g in 20s sounds like you need to grind finer, if you have an appropriate dose.


I'm dosing about 15-16g on the 14g basket, with a kitchen scale. I think I read that you should be tamping 15kg, maybe it's the tamping that I'm not getting quite right. I'll give it a few more tries. I've read that the old gaggia classic has a default pressure of 13 bar, and I was wondering if the new one is the same. If the default pressure is high that would kind of explain the fast flow of coffee. Since I also got grainy coffee, I thought my grind was already too fine and coffee flakes were seeping through the filter basket.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If your basket is marked/rated at 14g, why are you putting in up to 16g?

If you think the grind is too fine, then go coarser. You only need to tamp a few kg, which is about as soft as you can tamp whilst squeezing excess air out of the puck.

If you are overfilling the basket & tamping excessively hard the flow can speed up as water is not passing evenly through the puck.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Would the staleness of the coffee affect the speed of the flow? If not I could experiment with some cheap supermarket coffee, which won't cost me a lot.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

the_partisan said:


> Would the staleness of the coffee affect the speed of the flow? If not I could experiment with some cheap supermarket coffee, which won't cost me a lot.


You'll have to dial in each coffee, so you'll probably just be wasting time with supermarket coffee.

Note down each shot parameters one by one & report back.


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

What coffee are you using? Rave 'Italian Job' and Coffee Compass 'Brighton Lanes' are two coffee's that are quite easy to work with. Both reasonably cheap as well. I'd get at least 1kg of one or both and get used to making coffee with them.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I was using some coffee I bought from a local shop, which is their own roast. It was roasted last week of February.

I did things a bit more scientifically this morning. I also didn't tamp so hard, just try to make everything even and neat. As the grinds come out very clumpy out of the grinder, I used a toothpick to stir them. Grind -1 means 1 full turn on the grinder knob towards finer, which I marked the location with a piece of masking tape. It is a stepless grinder. I measured the times from when I push the button, I'm not sure if the 25-30s shot guideline is from when you push the button vs when the first drop appears. I also checked the puck afterwards for wormholes (signs of channeling).

dose | liquid | extraction time

Attempt #1 : Grind 0: 14g 74g 18s

Attempt #2: Grind -2: 14g 72g 21s

Attempt #3: Grind -4: 15g 70g 27s

Attempt #4: Grind -5: 14g 60g 27s (unfortunately there was a small wormhole in the middle of the puck).

The flow in #4 seemed much better than my previous attempts, and it felt like I should probably go even finer, unfortunately I didn't have much coffee left and wanted to save some for next session. I will buy some of the coffee recommended here and get back to it. The coffee tasted still rather bitter, but drinkable. It still seems to be turning a tan/light yellow color rather quickly.

Eitherway I found taking notes very helpful when pulling the shots.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

jimbojohn55 said:


> I should have mentioned - there is a theory that the 2015 model is actually 9 bar and not 15bar as advertised - a few people have tested the pressure at the basket and got 9 bar - I'm getting a pressure tester to see if this is correct.
> 
> Also tap the basket once the cove is in it before tamping to level it out.


Please let us know what the pressure tester says about the new Classic.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Your heading in the right direction, brilliant. I find I have to adjust to each new bag of beans, it seems to vary with the oil levels in the beans.

Ensure the seal keeps clean on the grouphead or at 15/30 you will get flow past the seal,

Cheers Jim


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Can you not weigh your output? It's hard to advise you with your output in ml.

Also, ignore what colour the flow goes.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

risky said:


> Can you not weigh your output? It's hard to advise you with your output in ml.
> 
> Also, ignore what colour the flow goes.


The output is actually in grams, I put ml because I assumed since coffee is 99% water, 1g = 1ml?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Not when considering crema.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

the_partisan said:


> The output is actually in grams, I put ml because I assumed since coffee is 99% water, 1g = 1ml?


Nope, doesn't work that way.

Anyway that helps a lot. 14g into 60g is an incredibly long shot. About double the size most people would normally pull. That said, the shot time is also very quick for that size of shot.

I'd aim for 14g dry into a 28g shot in the cup in about 30s to start with?

I'm guessing the pucks were very sloppy and wet when you knocked them out?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

OK I updated my chart to be in grams, as it was the weight that I was actually measuring. What weight should I be aiming for after 25-30s?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

risky said:


> Nope, doesn't work that way.
> 
> Anyway that helps a lot. 14g into 60g is an incredibly long shot. About double the size most people would normally pull. That said, the shot time is also very quick for that size of shot.
> 
> ...


Ok thanks, it sounds like I need to go a lot finer than where I am currently. I thought the target was around 60ml of liquid for a double shot which I assumed would be 60g.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

the_partisan said:


> Ok thanks, it sounds like I need to go a lot finer than where I am currently. I thought the target was around 60ml of liquid for a double shot which I assumed would be 60g.


The end target is whatever tastes the best, but as a general starting point, aim for double the dose weight.

What that will be in ml is actually pretty difficult to calculate, even with a measuring glass, because of crema/inaccuracy when reading a line on a glass etc etc. Which is why everyone uses grams.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

the_partisan said:


> OK I updated my chart to be in grams, as it was the weight that I was actually measuring. What weight should I be aiming for after 25-30s?


Don't kill the shot by time, kill it by weight & record time, make your grind adjustments based on taste. A 2:1 ratio (or whatever you brew to) is always the same, but time can wander quite a bit and still make a decent shot. Shots will probably be 25-35sec, but sticking to a narrow window religiously will confuse matters.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Pulled another shot this morning, and although my tamp wasn't perfect, and there was some side channeling in the puck, the coffee was probably the best tasting shot I have pulled so far







still a little bitter, but much less than previous ones.

The grind was -8 compared to my starting point, the shot weight was 52g and time was 26s, I still stopped too late and probably still need to go 2-3 full turns or more finer. But taking notes really helps me to see how the grind effects the flow/taste. It's quite amazing that I'll have to go full 10 turns finer than my original starting point Thanks everyone for the help!


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Great to hear the progress made, I am realising that the control of so many variables is key inc temp, milk quality, tamp, grind and swearing allegiance to the coffee gods as well as sacrificing coffee pods on the alter.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

.


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

Had another go this morning at Grind -9 (previous was -8). After a failed attempt due to not locking the portafilter properly which caused a mess, I dosed 15g, and extracted 26g in 32s. I think this is quite close for the beans I got, which are unfortunately almost finished so I will have to start the process again with new beans. The shot was good, attaching a picture as well. The only problem I have is that there are a few grounds in the espresso and this bothers my girlfriend quite a bit. Any idea what can be done about this?


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## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

New girlfriend ?? ... Although harsh as she bought you the machine


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm wondering if this could be due to stock pressure being quite high on Gaggia Classic, and I need to grind the beans quite fine to get the desired extraction rate?


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I have adjusted the grind now so that I am getting around 28g of coffee for a 14g dose in around 30-35 seconds. However the coffee still taste bitter, although still drinkable, but I feel like I'm not getting the full flavour of the beans. The coffee was roasted on 11/3 so it is fresh.

After extraction the puck looks rather messy, and doesn't look all flat and neat like in this video:






What do you think I'm doing wrong? Is it some problem with distribution and tamping, or the grind is uneven?

Also if I fill the 14g basket I have to the brim, the dose is more like 20g, but I've been dosing 14g, and wonder if this is too low?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

I've been experimenting with my (older but not OPV modded) classic and am settling around 17.5g in the basket. 14 was way too low so I went up to 18.5 which was too much and worked back down. By the time I reach the end of this kilo of beans I expect perfection.... And then to start over again with a new bag!


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I just pulled a 29g shot with 16g coffee in 27s and it tasted really good - not bitter at all. I also just tamped the coffee without bothering with any distribution, even though there were huge clumps from the grinder in it, just tapped the bottom of the portafilter on the counter a few times. The machine was also only on for just a few minutes. Maybe I am overthinking a lot of the other variables, or I just got lucky?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

I think everyone settles in to a basic routine after a while. Knowing what the variables are is a great way to get your coffee where you want it to be, but dont be afraid to drop them one by one (like not distributing) and seeing how it affects the shot. Often the convenience is worth the odd sink shot.


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