# Levers vs E61



## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

As an ex owner of a Pavoni Europiccola, I still miss the sensation of actually "pulling" a shot. I have owned an E61 machine for around 7 years now and have loved it dearly. However, I have noticed great variability in the drinks produced, (I make 2 flat whites every night). The best one isn't always the first one. So I don't think the problem is temperature related. It struck me last night that when pulling a shot into an unmarked cup, the volume of the shot probably has more effect on its taste than small variations in temperature. Thus I reason that in normal unskilled hands, the drinks produced by a good lever machine with it's fixed volume shots, are probably way more consistent than those produced by even the most temperature stable E61 machine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Some levers are very temp stable too.....could the first shot be off due to say grind retention in your grinder or do you single dose


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

How do you know when to stop the shot? Are you going by eye or time or weight?

I suppose it is true that with a lever or volumetric pump it might be "easier" as you take a variable out of the equation if you let both run to completion, however most lever users (correct me if wrong) stop the shot early by removing the shot glass at a set weight output for example.

But then weight is a better target output than volume so as you develop skills you will stop the shot when you want, not when a machine dictates.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yep forza, I remove when I hit the required output or by looking to see what it's blonding


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

NickR said:


> As an ex owner of a Pavoni Europiccola, I still miss the sensation of actually "pulling" a shot. I have owned an E61 machine for around 7 years now and have loved it dearly. However, I have noticed great variability in the drinks produced, (I make 2 flat whites every night). The best one isn't always the first one. So I don't think the problem is temperature related. It struck me last night that when pulling a shot into an unmarked cup, the volume of the shot probably has more effect on its taste than small variations in temperature. *Thus I reason that in normal unskilled hands, the drinks produced by a good lever machine with it's fixed volume shots, are probably way more consistent than those produced by even the most temperature stable E61 machine*.


Not sure I subscribe to this. You still have to pull the cup away . On a pump machine you can kill the shot with the cup on scales without having to pull the cup away?


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## NickR (Jul 1, 2011)

I have missed something here. On a Pavoni, one pull of the lever did not equal a single shot, it was two pulls which I always hated. I assumed that on a larger machine, one pull would be exactly one shot. Obviously a mistake.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

NickR said:


> I may missed something here. On a Pavoni, one pull of the lever did not equal a single shot, it was two pulls which I always hated. I assumed that on a larger machine, one pull would be exactly one shot. Obviously a mistake.


Depends on the group and the lever . The group on an l1 holds a specific amount of water , one pull wil give you an tasty espresso , I won't give you the traditional 2 fl ounces though. I do get the extraction ration I want tho by weight


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