# Kopi Luwak from coffee-direct.co.uk



## Huggy (Mar 7, 2015)

I know this subject gets talked about a lot and it's generally frowned upon to drink this stuff - however a friend of mine has ordered some of this from coffee-direct for a forthcoming weekend holiday. They say on their website that they definitely do not use beans from farmed sources. Can anyone confirm or deny this with any research to back it up? Is it likely to be iffy stuff from this supplier? I'm not interested in hearing that it's not worth the money - like I said a friend has ordered it in good faith that we will enjoy it and I'm keen to try it for myself. I am not, however, keen to promote unethical produce as in that respect I'm a bit of a hippy.

I'd be grateful for any decent knowledge regarding this particular supplier. Cheers.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It is pretty much definitely 'farmed', I would be surprised if they said it wasn't. It is more likely not 'caged'. Like farming chickens, it is better to allow them out in a field to run around than it is to keep them in a cage.

To not be farmed would be allowing an animal to eat your coffee plants and then hoping to high heaven you could find its poop afterwards.

Any industry which uses an animal for food production takes the animal out of its natural habitat, usually the breeding is controlled and they are given food (coffee cherries, obviously), the more demand there is the more pressure is put on a limited amount of animals to produce more food, or they need more animals in a small space. None of the countries which produce KL coffee have the best reputation for animal rights, our own arent exactly great, theirs are worse.

The question is wether you want to support an industry that will, at some point, be negatively affecting an animal, it may not be directly and it may be as far removed as the demand you are creating will mean a different farmer treating a different animal badly, but the responsibility is spread. It is the same decision you make when you ride an elephant, or watch a monkey perform, exploitation is likely.


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Dylan said:


> It is pretty much definitely 'farmed', I would be surprised if they said it wasn't.


They do state quite clearly it is not farmed on their website

"We are fundamentally opposed to captive civet cats being used in the production of Kopi Luwak.

* Our Kopi Luwak is imported only from natural, ** non-farmed **sources**."*


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> They do state quite clearly it is not farmed on their website
> 
> "We are fundamentally opposed to captive civet cats being used in the production of Kopi Luwak.
> 
> * Our Kopi Luwak is imported only from natural, ** non-farmed **sources**."*


So they do, I wouldn't trust that at all.

Would be like trying to get milk from 'unfarmed' cows.


----------



## YerbaMate170 (Jun 15, 2015)

Send them an email asking for clarification?


----------



## Huggy (Mar 7, 2015)

I guess most produce is farmed - like Dylan says you're not going to get milk from an un-farmed cow very easily. So quite how you get poop from an un-captive cat in sufficient quantities for sale is beyond me! I suppose I'm going to have to email them because I'd like to know just how their product comes about! I can handle a bunch of cats being held in a large pen with plenty of room I suppose but I'd be unhappy if the poor sods were confined to small cages like battery chickens.

I'm not going to ask my friend to cancel the sale - it's his choice after all - but this coffee had better be 8 times as good as my usual stuff which costs an eight to buy, and coffee-direct had better give me some acceptable answers, otherwise this will be the first and last time I try it!


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

i think it will be the first and last time you try \ buy it


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

For multiple reasons


----------



## h1udd (Sep 1, 2015)

It's a cat isn't it ? ... if so they ALL sh1t in my garden, all of them, you want sh1t with coffee beans in it just ask, it's in my garden


----------



## yardbent (Aug 8, 2015)

having spent some time overseas - admittedly in the Far East - I'm afraid to say ''animal welfare'' is low on the agenda in the food chain

with no disrespect to our Asian neighbors - it is their accepted way of life - it just somehow doesn't fit within our concepts

yet we are happy to buy barn eggs, farmed trout and veal

and of course most 'sellers' will only print/say what their customers want to hear

would i buy any...? NO


----------



## risky (May 11, 2015)

If you want to try Kopi Luwak without the cruelty then import some of this:

http://www.trung-nguyen-online.co.uk/page_sangtao8.php

However I'll save you the time and effort and money, it's crap, just like the real kopi luwak.


----------



## Yes Row (Jan 23, 2013)

h1udd said:


> It's a cat isn't it ? ... if so they ALL sh1t in my garden, all of them, you want sh1t with coffee beans in it just ask, it's in my garden


Build a wall to keep them out


----------



## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes Row said:


> Build a wall to keep them out


Snigger ;-)


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

risky said:


> If you want to try Kopi Luwak without the cruelty then import some of this:
> 
> http://www.trung-nguyen-online.co.uk/page_sangtao8.php
> 
> However I'll save you the time and effort and money, it's crap, just like the real kopi luwak.


Never, so I guess that kickstarter along the (exact) same lines wasn't so novel after all.


----------



## NickdeBug (Jan 18, 2015)

Two arguments here:

One - buying products like this, even from ethically farmed source, only creates demand and encourages further production, which will inevitably include production involving animal cruelty. Therefore you could say that any purchaser is enabling that practice, albeit indirectly.

Two - sometimes we are very quick, as an enlightened Western nation, to condemn other countries for exploiting their natural resources. Ironic as it wasn't that long ago that we were pretty much strip-mining any colony that we had for their resources and continue to do so in the form of big corporations.

Would I buy it - no. Would I drink it if offered - no.

Partly an ethical decision, and partly because I have heard that it is over-priced gimmicky tat that relies on a story of being passed through an animal's colon rather than the actual taste to sell it.


----------



## Huggy (Mar 7, 2015)

Well that's my thought - that it's 'cool' to say you've tried cat sh*t coffee! It's an interesting subject though - full of opinion. I'll be sure to give my honest opinion on this thread on how I think it actually tastes when I try it next weekend. Leaving the ethics aside I'm interested in how good it actually is to drink!

another method - get a civet cat as a pet, import coffee cherries and harvest from your litter tray! DIY Kopi Luwak! I'll nip to pets at home now and see if they've got one ;-)


----------



## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

the flip side of this whole civet thing is that if the coffee farmers wernt gathering its shit and making a profit on it they would otherwise be exterminating the pest for eating their valuable crop.

A bit like we did with the white tailed eagle, cant imagine the sheep farmers are best pleased either with the reintroduction of the once extinct native species

http://www.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/conservation/species/casestudies/whitetailedeagle.aspx

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...despite-their-name-according-to-research.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/11302220/Sea-eagles-eat-more-lamb-than-fish-despite-their-name-according-to-research.html


----------



## paul whu (Sep 25, 2014)

My friend spent 20 years living in Indonesia and he assures me that most of this coffee has never been through a civet although it is sold as such. Without wishing to be involved in the animal welfare debate there is a probability that the vendors are feeding you an alternative line of shit..... According to my mate.....


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

£40 for less than 250g of coffee that they are either lying about or have been lied to and are gullible enough to reproduce the comments in their blurb.

As said in previous posts it would be impossible for the sort of quantities needed to be attained if they weren't farmed. I'm willing to believe these particular civets aren't caged and are in effect treated in a similar way to barn/free range chickens but to say they're not farmed is at the very least misleading. I don't need science to back this up, it's just common sense.


----------



## Huggy (Mar 7, 2015)

A quick update.

I emailed coffee-direct.co.uk asking for specifics regarding who their suppliers were to support their claims of non-captive civet cat poo collection - including how their suppliers come across so much of the stuff if the cats are in no way captive. Their response was as follows:-

"Many thanks for your email and interest in our Kopi Luwak coffee. We take great care to ensure our Kopi coffee is purchased from respected farmers. We're naturally opposed to the captive farming of civets for Kopi Luwak, and all of our stock is certified as non-farmed. We have been Kopi now for many years and have full confidence in our supplier."

Well their response pretty much mugged me off - answering precisely none of my questions. This makes me angry because if there's nothing to hide then they can surely tell me at least something useful. They'd be giving nothing away by giving me the company name of their supplier - unless it's dodgy and they wish to keep this under their hats.... Interesting...

As much as I'd like to try it I already don't wanna drink it....


----------



## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm not going to guilt trip you or try to impose my beliefs on you but for me, there's just so many good coffee's I'd love to try that are reasonably priced and free from any ethical grey area that I see no point in KL, although I do understand you're curious.

One of the great things about speciality coffee is that if the coffee is good the demand is high and the farmer gets a better price. To bring animals that may or may not be abused into the equation isn't necessary.


----------

