# Coffee machine recommendation



## yls93

I am about to open a sandwich bar.

Could someone give a suggestion of a bean-to-cup coffee machine please? It has to be very reliable and efficiency. The taste is not very important but it has at least better than the waitrose one.

Many thanks


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## coffeebean

What's your budget?

Andy


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## froggystyle

yls93 said:


> The taste is not very important


Really?


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## h1udd

its a format that works for Starbucks


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## coffeebean

would have thought taste was the most important thing..........


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## froggystyle

h1udd said:


> its a format that works for Starbucks


Good point.


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## espressotechno

Have a look at the Jura XS9 and the XJ9 Pro.

With all commercial B2C machines the after-sales service is v. important. So a local supplier with good engineers is best....


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## DavecUK

yls93 said:


> I am about to open a sandwich bar.
> 
> Could someone give a suggestion of a bean-to-cup coffee machine please? It has to be very reliable and efficiency. The taste is not very important but it has at least better than the waitrose one.
> 
> Many thanks


Oooh.. I am afraid the words very reliable and bean to cup don't go together in the same sentence.

The instore free coffee machines of Waitrose are probably NOT a cheap machine. If you don't like those, it could be the beans they are using....how many thousands are you looking to spend. I tested out some swiss machines costing many thousands some years ago and I wouldn't drink the crap they produced.

I think you can do better and perhaps bean to cup machines are not the way?


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## h1udd

How many cups a day will you be serving .. Realistically you are looking at £3.5k for a 100 a day or £5.5k for 200 cups ... At the minimum, and that doesn't include the regular servicing it will need


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## yls93

Hi,

Thank you all for all the replies. Very appreciated.

I think I did not include as more detail as possible in my previous post. Sorry.

I just graduated from Uni and I have got an opportunity in China to open a subway.

Unlike the market in UK. The bean to cup machine will be more than enough in China and it is the best solution in consider of the queue time. In addition, my customer can tell the difference between instant coffee and fresh made coffee, but they do not care about whether it is manual made coffee or auto-made coffee.

Also, because the store is based in China. I do need a very very very reliable coffee machine. The budget is not a problem, but it can not go sky high.

Many thanks,

Yilun


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## yls93

Also, there is a starbucks in the same mall but I have got a lot better location. They sell a cup of latte about 3quids. I am thinking about the sell my latte for about 1.5 quids.


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## yls93

So the ideal would be:

1. it does not need servicing. (I am ok with cleaning)

2. it is very reliable. (It will last at least to cover the cost of the machine)

3. it is fast. (the coffee should be ready when I finish making sandwich for my customer)

4. it is a bean to cup machine.

5. the taste is no worse than the waitrose free coffee.

Many thanks

Yilun


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## DavecUK

yeah, the words chinese made (this is an assumption), bean to cup and reliable are not often used in the same sentence. As you are from university I will give you some free advice. You can offer your customers what they will buy, what you know you can sell them and you will make some money. Offer them what they really want and you will do much better. you can strive to be special, or you can strive to be just like the rest.


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## DavecUK

yls93 said:


> So the ideal would be:
> 
> 1. it does not need servicing. (I am ok with cleaning)
> 
> 2. it is very reliable. (It will last at least to cover the cost of the machine)
> 
> 3. it is fast. (the coffee should be ready when I finish making sandwich for my customer)
> 
> 4. it is a bean to cup machine.
> 
> 5. the taste is no worse than the waitrose free coffee.
> 
> Many thanks
> 
> Yilun


Then get a bulk brewer.

1. Needs very little servicing, but does need cleaning

2. Will be more reliable than almost anything else

3. The coffee will always be waiting ready for the customer

4. It is not...but if you add an approriate grinder, I suppose it is in a way...you can grind your own beans, eventually they will reach the customers cup

5. Yes can meet this requirement quite easily.

Examples of bulk brew systems below, you can but cheaper and more expensive. Plus any Chinese made bulk brewer will be a more reliable than a bean to cup, no matter how hard they try to make it badly. one of those cheap mazzer chinese super jolly clones will do for a cheap grinder for brewed (they are no good for espresso).

http://www.beanmachines.co.uk/images/upload/6_2a8fe3e04fec7b71198abc2e1c005ae8.pdf


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## yls93

Thanks for the advice. I fully understand what you mean.

The coffee is not my main business. My main business is selling sandwiches. Coffee is just like an attachment or bonus. The best coffee what normal people would think will be starbucks or costa in China.

Over 80% of coffee 'lovers' in China are always drinking instant coffee. So if I can provide a fresh made coffee in my store, I believe my customer will like it.


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## froggystyle

Does subway not specify what machine/type of coffee you must use under the franchise thing?


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## yls93

Thanks for the link. I had a look at it.

I don't think this will work

.

When customer see my adv "fresh made coffee!", they want to see the real coffee machine. The bulk brewer does not like a real coffee machine.

If customers can see the real coffee machine, they would be more convinced that they are having something ways better than the instantly coffee. And cheaper than starbucks!

Cheers,

Y


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## yls93

yep, instant coffee........


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## yls93

please ignore any grammar typo. : p


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## lotuseater

So they (Subway) specify instant? Is that what you are now saying?

If the customers insist on "seeing a proper machine" then buy one! A commercial espresso and commercial grinder, and be done with it. A lot less hassle in the long run than useless vending or bean-to-cups.


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## h1udd

In that case la Cimbali s54 .. You will have to steam your own milk though ? Or is that too much effort to go to ?


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## DavecUK

It's a funny thing...whenever I am in Hong Kong, Singapore or China....I always swap to tea for the month....now I know why


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## yls93

lotuseater said:


> So they (Subway) specify instant? Is that what you are now saying?
> 
> If the customers insist on "seeing a proper machine" then buy one! A commercial espresso and commercial grinder, and be done with it. A lot less hassle in the long run than useless vending or bean-to-cups.


Any recommendations?


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## yls93

h1udd said:


> In that case la Cimbali s54 .. You will have to steam your own milk though ? Or is that too much effort to go to ?


yep, it's too much. The one provides free coffee in waitrose seems suits my needs. But I don't know whether it is reliable or not. and I don't what brand and type is that machine.


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## NickdeBug

I don't think that any bean to cup machine used commercially would be reliable unless you have a service contract to go with it. In which case I would check out a rental through a local supplier rather than sourcing one yourself.

The Waitrose ones are regularly serviced and that still doesn't stop them regularly being out of order. I have never actually tried the coffee from them so can't comment on that.


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## yls93

DavecUK said:


> It's a funny thing...whenever I am in Hong Kong, Singapore or China....I always swap to tea for the month....now I know why


haha, I'm sure you will enjoy the tea if you don't mind it comes without milk/sugar.

Last month I went to China and I saw Starbucks starts to provide a premium service. They call it Starbucks reserve. It provides coffee via traditional method by using paper filter and funnel.


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## yls93

NickdeBug said:


> I don't think that any bean to cup machine used commercially would be reliable unless you have a service contract to go with it. In which case I would check out a rental through a local supplier rather than sourcing one yourself.
> 
> The Waitrose ones are regularly serviced and that still doesn't stop them regularly being out of order. I have never actually tried the coffee from them so can't comment on that.


ok, thanks for the reply. what about the coffee machine in KFC? (or McDonald or BK) "The best Seattle's coffee" seems not too bad.


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## espressotechno

Forget specific brands: You need to find out who are the local coffee machine suppliers in China, with good servicing backup, and what machines they stock & what contracts they offer.

Don't even think about importing one yourself !


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## Yes Row

I think you would be better with a vending machine that dispenses different styles of drinks (Cappa espresso etc)

Less to go wrong


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## h1udd

Yes, I think you are asking the wrong forum, we are all here drinking fresh coffee from home equipment, or selling coffee in the best manor possible so that we don't have to drink from commercial vending machines.

to be brutal, coffee from a vending machine will never taste anything other than poor, and if your customers are happy with this I don't think they will care too much about the machine you have as long as you push a button and s coffee comes out


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## jlarkin

I dunno, I think there are always levels of goodness (so to speak) but certainly it seems better to try and source something locally with support.

The waitrose machines seem to be Thermoplan Black & White model (from a quick Google image search). Such as this: http://www.ucc-coffee.co.uk/products/machines/bean-to-cup/thermoplan.html

Obviously I'm not recommending them, I don't know them whatsoever so just in case it helps the OP.


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## h1udd

Have you had a good cup of coffee from a vending machine though ?

The the use of pressurised chambers to get round the issue of unknown grind size, like s pressurised basket, makes the coffee acceptable, but the issue of a machine heating milk and combining it with air to make a foamy milk consistency, kills it off for sure, there is no sweetness to the milk, or texture, that then fails to lift the already bitterly extracted coffee. It's why the likes of pret and Starbucks still steam milk even though the espresso is bean to cup

i would prefer an American style over stewed drip style from a jug if coffee that's been sat there all day


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## jlarkin

I used to like the Costa vending machines and enjoyed some coffees from them.

Now I think they aren't good coffee but was happy with that for a time.

I think you're confusing your standards with those of Joe public. Plenty of people drink coffee produced on far, far worse equipment or with worse standards than a coffee from a bean to cup or whatever.

There are still different levels even if you consider everything below X standard to be unworthy of drinking


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## h1udd

I don't think I am confusing standards, more pointing out that the standards of this forum are not one that are probably best to advise on a catering vending machine. I doubt we could even advise in beans as no one would have tried to underextract one on said equipment then shoot frothed milk at it


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## yls93

Yes Row said:


> I think you would be better with a vending machine that dispenses different styles of drinks (Cappa espresso etc)
> 
> Less to go wrong


Thanks for reply.

Any specific recommendation?

I am starting to think: should I just buy a de'longhi machine for home use for maybe a bosch one?#

Cheers


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## Yes Row

yls93 said:


> Thanks for reply.
> 
> Any specific recommendation?
> 
> I am starting to think: should I just buy a de'longhi machine for home use for maybe a bosch one?#
> 
> Cheers


Nope

I know nothing about them.


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## yls93

jlarkin said:


> I dunno, I think there are always levels of goodness (so to speak) but certainly it seems better to try and source something locally with support.
> 
> The waitrose machines seem to be Thermoplan Black & White model (from a quick Google image search). Such as this: http://www.ucc-coffee.co.uk/products/machines/bean-to-cup/thermoplan.html
> 
> Obviously I'm not recommending them, I don't know them whatsoever so just in case it helps the OP.


Thanks a lot.

It has been very helpful. I can unless contact them whether they have service brunch in China.

Do you have any other recommendations? It seems this coffee machine is always 'out of order'.

Cheers.


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## h1udd

Would it not be better to find out what machines other businesses are using in China ... That way when your machine keeps bleeping empty tray, there is someone that can fix it without leaving customers without drink for 3weeks


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## yls93

Thanks you people for the replies. I have been learnt a lot from your generous comments.

I appreciate that the coffee machine can only make coffee tastes better than sh*t. Especially bean to cup. That why I am using traditional manual equipment to make coffee for myself and my family.

I am also very sorry for bring up the topic of 'bean-to-cup'. It seems there are a lot people annoyed by bean to cup coffee machine.

But please folks, I did my prep in investigating the market and the customer. It is entirely different from the market in UK. So, do comment if you know the machine or if you have a better suggestion. And please do not educate me.

Maybe the bean to cup machine can't suit my needs. But I am ok to buy a grinder.

Many thanks


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## h1udd

Ok then, if you don't want educating buy a wmf 2000 s ... It will easily handle the output of your sandwich shop


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## yls93

Someone knows anything about this machine?

https://uk.jura.com/en/homeproducts/automatic-coffee-machines/E6-EU-15079


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## h1udd

It's fine for home use.

it has 2 litre reservoir, it has an automatic self rinse system so every few cups it runs a rinse cycle, the tray needs to be emptied every 10cups ... Sounds fun for a commercial environment


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## yls93

h1udd said:


> It's fine for home use.
> 
> it has 2 litre reservoir, it has an automatic self rinse system so every few cups it runs a rinse cycle, the tray needs to be emptied every 10cups ... Sounds fun for a commercial environment


Thanks for the reply.

What about this one?

https://uk.jura.com/en/professional/automatic-coffee-machines/IMPRESSA-XS9-Classic-EU-13664


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## ZachChipp

La Cimbali have also been pretty good for bean to cup, very reliable and durable when looked after (Like any machine).


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## froggystyle

yls93 said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> What about this one?
> 
> https://uk.jura.com/en/professional/automatic-coffee-machines/IMPRESSA-XS9-Classic-EU-13664



Recommended maximum daily output60


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## h1udd

@froggystyle

what do you think on this one ?

https://uk.jura.com/en/professional/automatic-coffee-machines/GIGA-X3-Professional-15002


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## froggystyle

Matters not what i think, the fella needs to pay attention to how many cups the machine is designed to make in a day, he needs to work out/guess how many that is and buy a machine fit for purpose.


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## h1udd

ok ... what about this one

https://uk.jura.com/en/professional/automatic-coffee-machines/GIGA-X9c-Professional-13598


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## froggystyle

Are you still asking me?


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## h1udd




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## yls93

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the replies and comments.

I just realised Jura has their business in China.

Let me ask them first, see if they provide any servicing if I import one myself.

Cheers


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