# Barista Express...



## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hello All

New user and second thread already - hope no one minds!

I am now considering between two options. I only intend to drink espresso and occasionally have a latte / cappuccino - I will not be using a French Press or anything else, just the machine.

*1). Duo Temp Pro alongside a Eureka Mignon.*

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Advantages:

- Better grinder.

Disadvantages:

- None of the advantages below.

*2). Sage Barista Express. *

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Advantages:

- Pressure Gauge (potentially useful to someone who is new).

- Greater variability for PID than DTP.

- Better aesthetics (in my opinion)

- Able to do dosed shots (nice for ease of use).

- Less room taken up than DTP & Eureka Mignon (footprint is important, though the DTP & Mignon is not too large).

Disadvantages:

- Grinder not as good (whilst only one disadvantage, this possibly outweighs all the other advantages. Though if I only intend it for espresso - will it make much difference?)

If anyone could give me their opinions on this it would be very much appreciated - they both come to a similar cost.

Thank you.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Just to throw you off, Think you mentioned the Lelit for me I would of gone Mignon and Lelit. This is of no help to you,


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

The main advantage of separates is that you can replace/upgrade one bit. And there are two bits to break in a BE. That said, it's a neat machine and for infrequent use I can't imagine it breaking down any time soon


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thanks - certainly throws a curve ball back in.

Do you think that the advantages of the Barista Express outweigh the disadvantages of the DTP?

Or will the Eureka Mignon give such greater grind (for my purposes of espresso alone - not French Press or percolator) that it outweighs the others?


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## Missy (Mar 9, 2016)

Buy the DtP and mignon. Better grinder, better resale value. The pros on the BE are gimmicks not necessities.

My new machine has a pressure gauge. I'm not entirely certain what its purpose is, but it looks good, and seems to "sell machines" my previous two machines didn't have one, and I still made great coffee.


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

The choice seems obvious then!

Do you think that the Eureka will make a significant difference to the flavour if I am only planning on using espresso through the machine - not any other type of grind such as for percolators, moka pots or french presses?

Does everyone generally feel that the DTP is the best machine at this price point, for the inclusion of PID and fast warm up time? I cannot seem to find any other comparable machines at the price...


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## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

There's a fair few on here running dtp's. Unless you want to mod a classic there's not much else near the price...


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## Ted_Kent (Nov 25, 2017)

I am selling my BE as i have something else now. i had a seperate grinder anyway, the grinder was priced well and i have someone visit that drinks decaf so my standalone grinder was for my daily use and the BE grinder was for decaf, saved messing about with dialing in etc

The DTP is a very popular machine here.


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

If only I could get the Breville Infuser in the UK - I'm assuming there are still no plans to have it over here?

It has everything I want from the Barista Express without the grinder!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

G_W_1 said:


> If only I could get the Breville Infuser in the UK - I'm assuming there are still no plans to have it over here?
> 
> It has everything I want from the Barista Express without the grinder!


It would make a nice addition to the lineup especially since the tooling is already there for it (except possibly sage/breville branded bits).


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I've been using a BE for some time. Part of the reason I went for it is that I was pretty sure I would want 2 grinders.







Actually I currently have 5 of them around but that's another story and given the pain of setting grinders up it will be some time before I use all of them.

The other reason is I see brewing coffee being like the commercial end. No weighing and all automatic so wanted the buttons and the grinder timer. In practice it can be a bit like that but commercial machines are a bit more complicated than many machines that people use at home and are also used a lot more often. The key to button pushing shot pulling is meticulous attention to what goes in in terms of grounds but output will still vary a little but depending on the drink may not alter taste. Some one with one of Sage's high end machines that even tamps reckoned something like a 5% variation in output. I've tried several ways at looking at this and found no difference in taste at all once I have the button, grind and weight in the basket correct. Seems oracle users haven't either. A BE may give more variation. I tend to tune just on taste but would notice significant changes in the output.

Grind timers are a mixed bag. They can't really be expected to produce the same weight of grinds all of the time. That means once set the output needs checking now and again and the time adjusting if needed. When I have worked that way on a new bean pulling 3 to 8 shots a day on a grinder that has already ground beans a new bean may need several adjustments for the first week and maybe one or less a week afterwards. That is with an oily bean though. Drier stuff is easier but it can still change. Recently I have been weighing beans in, with some beans and also with the need for various weights it's a lot simpler especially when sorting a grind out. Sage grinders seem to be rather good in this respect once they have settled down. Less will come out for a while used like this on a completely clean grinder but after a while what comes out will be a very close match to what goes in - except when a setting is changed. Another shot usually fixes that. I'd be inclined to say always actually but that's with the beans I use. Ones very oily and the other a medium roast that gives a much lighter drink.

I find the gauge useful as it's telling me what's going on. For one the machine will brew at 15bar - way higher than others. The DTP might be the same, I don't know. This is the point where the over pressure valve opens and the machine diverts water to the drip tray rather than through the coffee. I sometimes choose to brew short of this point, depends on the bean. These machines also have infusion. The gauge shows how the pressure builds while the machine is in that stage. I also have a machine with no gauge. I missed it and started wondering if I should check the OPV setting. On some machines that's all it's used for. Pass in my case. I'd have to say having had one I want one on any machine I buy. The BE guage isn't marked in bars. It has a sector marked suitable for espresso. The high end is a bit short of 15 bar, middle about 9.

I've more less decided to not make any comments about their grinders as some crop up from people who have actually used one and others that probably have never been near one. The comments from people who have used them are far more interesting including people who own Oracals. These (even dfk's) do make sense. All I will add is that people are unlikely to obtain better at the same price point and they do have their foibles.

John

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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I'd definitely go DTP and either mignon or mazzer. They go great together and produce excellent drinks.

With regards to the infuser. If you're handy you can spec the DTP to be similar.

In my DTP I've fit a solenoid valve, pump pressure gauge and dimmer switch to adjust pump flow. Makes a huge difference to the shot.


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## Banjoman (Apr 18, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I'd definitely go DTP and either mignon or mazzer. They go great together and produce excellent drinks.
> 
> With regards to the infuser. If you're handy you can spec the DTP to be similar.
> 
> In my DTP I've fit a solenoid valve, pump pressure gauge and dimmer switch to adjust pump flow. Makes a huge difference to the shot.


It's more a DTP Cosworth now isn't it? A different beast to my untouched DTP!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Banjoman said:


> It's more a DTP Cosworth now isn't it? A different beast to my untouched DTP!


I've just ordered a "turbo" sticker for down the side


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I've just ordered a "turbo" sticker for down the side


Oooh! And 'go faster' stripes? Go on! You know you want to


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I've just ordered a "turbo" sticker for down the side


Spoiler?

Sorry, couldn't resist!!


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The BE has another feature that it took me a while to cotton to. It's defaults aim is to produce 30ml single and 60ml double shots. In other words it will try to do that what ever is in the basket and shot timing will adjust to suite. It's not perfect maybe commercial machines that use the same sort of technique are. I had noticed that it had a tendency to push time the right way when I made changes to the grind but it became very apparent when I decided to set a 25 sec shot time with an empty pressurised basket and then used that setting for a real shot, The shot time went on and on and on. I decided to terminate it after 45 secs. It was trying to push the same amount of water through the grounds. If not there is a hell of a bug in the software. It also explains why I had a lot of fun using the default settings. It's possible to tune to them as they come.

It needs a different approach if some one wants to alter it. Say some one wanted to establish a 30ml or gram shot as some would insist. Play with the grind etc using the double button terminating as appropriate time or weight. When happy with the shot do the same thing noting the time it takes. Then pull another shot using the single button in it's programming mode to set the same time. Or adjust it to obtain what ever is wanted using the same grind and weight in the basket. Or do as I have been doing just play with the single button "timing" as things progress.

I'm likely to be using a DB from now on and may find myself setting that to the same mode.

John

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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

G_W_1 said:


> If only I could get the Breville Infuser in the UK - I'm assuming there are still no plans to have it over here?
> 
> It has everything I want from the Barista Express without the grinder!


Have you checked Amazon.de? I've ordered stuff from there that's not available in the UK and it worked fine.


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## G_W_1 (Mar 2, 2018)

Thanks for the all the replies - I did have a look around but could not find it.

However, in the end, I bought the Barista Express Ted_Kent was selling on his forum.

I made a trip out of it and went down and collected it from him. We spent well over an hour just going through the functions and he took the time out to show me how to clean and descale properly, as well as ogling his ECM Synchronika.

On top of that, he gave me a big bag of freshly roasted coffee beans to start with from Deal Rosters (absolutely superb) as well as a small timer for my espresso's as I did not have one. So I just wanted to say thank you very much and what a nice chap - he really went out of his way to be helpful and generous.

I have been using it for coming up to a week now and I absolutely love it. I only really drink espresso, however, others in the house have milk based drinks so I have been practicing on that too! I know it is not quite as customisable as other machines, however I have been playing around with the temperature, pressure and grind with some good (and less good!) results.

On a side note, when people talk about the 25-30 second extraction, is that including the PID build up or from when the coffee starts actually flowing?

Giles


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## Ted_Kent (Nov 25, 2017)

G_W_1 said:


> Thanks for the all the replies - I did have a look around but could not find it.
> 
> However, in the end, I bought the Barista Express Ted_Kent was selling on his forum.
> 
> ...


Giles,

I was going to PM you this weekend to check on how you were getting on. It seems like you are getting on well.

Cheers for the kind words and I am glad you are getting on well with the coffee from Real Deal (collecting that was the errand I had to carry out, with the car being broken I incorporated a coffee collection in with a bike ride)

As for shot timing I used to run the timer from button press to end of shot, rather than start of flow to end of shot.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I use time from button press as well - the grounds are being infused even though nothing is coming out. Don't get too wrapped up in things must happen in a given time. Worry more about the taste you want and like.

All of the time I had been using my BE i had a feeling that something was interfering with shot time then I did something that has made me rather sure that it's a feature of the machine. The manual sums it up - single shot button 30ml, double 60ml. It's trying to produce volume related shots. What I did was program a 25sec shot using an empty pressurised basket. Idea - just to set it to something. I then pulled a shot with coffee in - that gave much slower flow rates so the shot time went on and on and on, way way past 25sec as it was trying to produce the same output as the empty basket did.

Many commercial machines work the same way probably more accurately than the BE does in practice. It's pretty convenient really. Say you are using the single button at it's default setting and change the grinder setting. It will still try and produce the same output so the actual shot time will change. What I found at the default settings with the grind settings I used and the single basket was that the double button gave an output of around 40ml or 40g as some prefer.







In my case that actually suited the bean I have used the most - several kg of them. I was brewing at high pressure with the OPV open which explains why it was less than 60ml but as I mentioned I don't think the volume aspect is spectacularly accurate. Grind coarser and the output would probably be greater than 60ml. What it seems to do is keep it fairly constant but there are limits to how much of a change it can cope with.








What did I do then - perfectly happy with the coffee the machine produced and having found that there are some interesting aspects on just how certain beans can be brewed with various tastes - I changed machine so haven't really bottomed out the volume feature it seems to have.

If you take the machine apart you could do the same thing as Joey has for pump power control, work lights or what ever. Gaggia people tend to use a dimmer switch rather than the part Joey used. On the other hand you can try using grind to set brew pressure in much the same way using the machine as it comes. Just keep your finger on the shot button which keeps it in infusion mode, As soon as you release press it again to terminate the shot completely. So say you wanted to brew a 6 bar as per some DB owners do use this to see where that is on the guage









Then adjust the grinder to get that pressure or any other. I'd probably more inclined to add a mod to automate this than add separate pump control as that will need adjusting or wiring out when steam is needed. Maybe water too on a BE but I think the pump runs flat out for that.

John

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