# EK43 - managing retention



## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm still getting to grips with the EK, any advice on managing retention or tips on reducing it?

Having come from a HG-1 which has practically zero retention I do notice that the EK is holding on to a lot more.

I'm currently grinding 20.2g for a 20g dose and occasionally have had a grind windfall of 1-2g extra. Seems that the chute might be the biggest culprit so I've been tapping it to try and release as much as possible.

I'm guessing that removing the chute isn't an option as suspect the EK will spray grinds everywhere.

is it just a case of tap the chute and purge, or can I do anything else?


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Are you misting your beans prior to grinding? I find retention slightly hilarious otherwise...

Removing the chute is not an option, no. Its already going to cover a wide area with fine coffee grind as it is.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

yes already misting.

thought I'd need to keep the chute on, it's like some wild animal hosing is territorial boarders down....


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

I am running through (purging) a couple of grams of beans first thing in the morning and when changing beans, but I'm still finding a little bit gets through myself, which is a little unexpected. The first couple of cups seem to be a bit off, especially if changing grind level. I'm still trying a few things, so will let you know if I get anywhere.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I have a Kilner funnel as the doser, chuck a pot of beans in which have had one spray and a good shake then flick the bag holder about three times. It's pretty consistent but I don't weigh out every time, only when i'm dialling in, experimenting or can be bothered. I find 20.15-20.2 in gives me a pretty consistend 20g dose out.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

I'm not weighing out most of the time either - I can tell, because the first few spro shots run too quickly after changing from a courser grind (and I think this also may be the reason for an odd bitterness in my Aeropress brews sometimes)

I'm guessing its a fact of life, really. If I didn't change beans, I wouldn't notice it.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

So far I've been changing beans infrequently so have tended to remove the front and clean everything thoroughly each time but as my dialling in experience increases and becomes faster I intend changing beans more often so shall just purge with a few grams each time. I also purge a few grams when going from course for Aeropress or filter back to espresso. It's actually not difficult for me to weigh out each time as my scales are by my grinder and I can just zero them with the jug I use to catch the grinds and weigh. I'll make more of an effort and report back in due course!


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

I thinks it going between aeropress and espresso that's giving me grief. Out of interest, what grind point are you using fir aeropress?


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I change beans about 6-8 times a day (back and forth between 4 different beans).

I guess I'll just have to purge more.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I always throw a small amount of beans through if switching between espresso-filter / filter-espresso .

For a laugh i ground 3 x 10g batch through on grind fully open (coarse)

10.1g

9.8g

9.9g

Then without 'purging' 3 x 10g on fully closed (fine)

9.6g (!)

10.3 (!)

9.9g

A further 3 x 10g on the same setting

10g

9.9g

10.1g

I can sleep at night and get on with life worrying about something else instead (I only ever weigh what goes into the grinder)


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I tend to weigh beans and then the grinds going in a blind tumbler before I put them into the PF, there's definitely a lot of variance in grind weight for the same weight of bean.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

Define a lot.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

@garydyke1 - how much do you purge? A couple of grams or so?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> @garydyke1 - how much do you purge? A couple of grams or so?


4-5g


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Phobic said:


> I tend to weigh beans and then the grinds going in a blind tumbler before I put them into the PF, there's definitely a lot of variance in grind weight for the same weight of bean.


Ive never noticed a problem in the cup, which is the main thing. I always throw 18g in and get a tasty cup out.

Problems only occur if I forget to purge between methods


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Ok, so purged 5-6 grams this morning, which was a little bit more than I usually would, and the usual problems with bitterness seemed a lot better. Still not got the damn thing dialled in for aeropress yet, but that's another matter...


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> Ok, so purged 5-6 grams this morning, which was a little bit more than I usually would, and the usual problems with bitterness seemed a lot better. Still not got the damn thing dialled in for aeropress yet, but that's another matter...


Just steep longer


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> Ok, so purged 5-6 grams this morning, which was a little bit more than I usually would, and the usual problems with bitterness seemed a lot better. Still not got the damn thing dialled in for aeropress yet, but that's another matter...


I'm whacking the bag lever lots as well as tapping the chute, that helps dislodge some grinds too. At some point I'm going to take it apart and see if I can do anything to improve things, but that's a project for another day I think.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

Get a pastry brush or a half decent small paint brush and whiffle the inside of the chute occasionally as well. I use a paint brush which is now constantly there for cleanup duties...

Out of pure interest as well, the other thing I have started doing is misting the beans I purge with, as otherwise its more likely they will cling to the chute and get mixed up with the next batch (or at least thats my current thinking) - I ground some old stale dark roast beans the other day as I still haven't hit the mystical 15Kg, and obviously didn't mist. Shortly afterwards I had to dust myself down, and it rained coffee from the chute for quite a while afterwards.


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## dan1502 (Sep 8, 2012)

I've only checked three times since I last posted but each time the difference between beans in and grinds out was less than 0.1g. I think there needs to be a bit of build up after cleaning before the consistency improves. I thwack the lever (fnarr fnarr) three times. My burrs have seen nowhere near 15kg of action yet either; probably about 5kg at a guess. I wouldn't go messing with the internals until you've given it more of a chance if I were you. That said when you open it up you will probably see that some accumulates around the exit hole which might benefit from porting. Other than that bits just get distributed around and stay there. Occasionally I get the odd dose which is higher than what I put in due to some dislodging but not often enough to concern me. The main reason I weigh the output from time to time is to restore confidence that the doses are consistent and I don't really have to weigh though when dialling in I tend to do so as I want to be sure the dose hasn't changed.


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## Phobic (Aug 17, 2016)

I was more thinking of seeing if I could improve the chute than messing with the internals to be honest as my hunch is the joint between the chute and throat is a candidate for retention.

not sure what you could do pragmatically with the internals to reduce retention, only thing that springs to mind would be some kind of wiper but getting 1 made that will withstand the rotation is going to be more effort that it's worth I'd guess.

maybe use an air blower up into the chute as well?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Static can be your friend - chaff dust is more likely to retained by static especially with beans which produce more chaff. Chaff also collects above the grinds when grinding into a SS tumbler and can be removed easily.


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