# Can you guys post your espresso extraction ratios?



## RagingMammoth (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm currently dosing 17g and getting 28gs out. This seems to be much shorter than anyone else I've seen.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

RagingMammoth said:


> I'm currently dosing 17g and getting 28gs out. This seems to be much shorter than anyone else I've seen.


it's very very very short....*why don't you try getting out more and also post how long it's taking you to get this out* (for all I know it could be 15 or 50 seconds), the particular coffee concerned, it's roast level and perhaps at what temperature (if that information is known to you). It would also be handy to know what you are aiming for in the cup and are you drinking this as straight espresso or do you also use it for long drinks and milk drinks. This gives information about grind as well as coffee that allows for a cogent response. without this information any response you get is largely meaningless.


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## RagingMammoth (Sep 21, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> it's very very very short....*why don't you try getting out more and also post how long it's taking you to get this out* (for all I know it could be 15 or 50 seconds), the particular coffee concerned, it's roast level and perhaps at what temperature (if that information is known to you). It would also be handy to know what you are aiming for in the cup and are you drinking this as straight espresso or do you also use it for long drinks and milk drinks. This gives information about grind as well as coffee that allows for a cogent response. without this information any response you get is largely meaningless.


94 degrees, medium roast blend. Always black americano for me, lattes for others


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Really? that sounds fine to me.

I'm doing 18g in 28-29g out at the moment.

Dont get confused by the EK43 crew, the grinder is very different to normal espresso grinders and the ratios are more like 18g in 40g out. This will probably taste gross on most other grinders!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I'd definitely be extracting a little more.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

What beans are they?

How does it taste?


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## RagingMammoth (Sep 21, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> What beans are they?
> 
> How does it taste?


Redbers all day blend. I honestly don't know how it's truly supposed to taste like, as I haven't had much experience...

I'm about to taste a 17g 35g extraction now. I'll update you.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

RagingMammoth said:


> I'm currently dosing 17g and getting 28gs out. This seems to be much shorter than anyone else I've seen.


That sounds about right go me too 1.6 extraction ratio. It tends to be my starting point on a new bean in 25-30 secs.

Depending on the bean I try pulling it shorter ristretto style at anything down to 20g extraction or longer up to 35g.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Just go with whatever tastes best for you!

There is no shame in 17/29, a lot of us on the forum go for that kind of range and a LOT of speciality shops do too.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Try different extractions in the same time frame and see what you think. At the end of the day, it's how it tastes to you. Also, some beans seem to favour being pulled short, i.e. Ristretto style 1:1.6 others longer 1:2.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I agree with urban and araon , a 1.6 ratio in 25 seconds is a good place to start and then adjust your grind from there, based on what taste you are searching for, nothing is set in stone I'm pulling 17g in 26g in 35 seconds on raves Italian job at the moment (very forgiving blend) plus allowing to run longer due to twin spout.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

1:1.6 ............


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Me, I pull short shots professionally. 19.5 into 22 at most over 25 seconds. I use a dark roast bean though for this. It's a taste that my associate and I are very pleased with and that translates into the feedback we get.

Other beans vary.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

DavecUK said:


> <snip>..*why don't you try getting out more... *<snip></snip></snip>


ROFPML!!









Now that made me laugh!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Drewster said:


> ROFPML!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Finally! (lol)


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Depends on the coffee d x 1.55 - d x 1.75 in 30-35 seconds I am usually within these parameters


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

My wifes attempts shots when i am at work, she told me this morning her ratio, 25g in, 25g out in 25 seconds in a double basket!!

No wonder my shower plate is always blocking...


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I bet drinking that you'd be properly wired, Froggy!!!!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

God knows what it tasted like Malc, she does this when i am at work, she wouldnt notice anyway, she drowns the shot in 10oz of milk!


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

The shot sounds like a "very tight restretto " Just the thing to get you going in the morning!!!!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I doubt she can get it out in 25secs though, more than likey choke the machine, i struggle with 17g in a double basket sometimes.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> I doubt she can get it out in 25secs though, more than likey choke the machine.


Just...don't


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

I've recently been running shots up to a 1:2 ratio over 35-40 seconds and been getting some excellent results, partly due to one of DaveC's recent posts and partly due to trying some stuff the EK brigade are doing as well, having such a flexible machine and the Mythos does help with this though.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Charliej said:


> I've recently been running shots up to a 1:2 ratio over 35-40 seconds and been getting some excellent results, partly due to one of DaveC's recent posts and partly due to trying some stuff the EK brigade are doing as well, having such a flexible machine and the Mythos does help with this though.


How/why does this work (please!)?

What's the scientific difference during extraction with your set-up and mine that means this works whereas for me it would taste of evil? Is it that you have less fines or something?


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Since I joined this forum and my coffee journey, I've been advised to go for a 1.6 ratio, 17g in x 27/28g out in a time of 25-30seconds, now I feel this advice is being knocked down by a few and saying it's not right, am I right in thinking the new EK owners are doing different things and info is getting crossed over? Confused now


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

A ratio of 1:1.6 is a reference point , you can adjust away from it, increasing or decreasing to lungo or ristretto or anything in between ( whether an ek43 or a porlex grinder ) not everything will taste great to everyone at that ratio....

And you shouldn't assume if you hit the 1:1.6 and it tastes unbalanced that it's the coffee fault .....

Same as some people will prefer a 14 g dose some an 20g dose , some people like salt and vinegar on chips , some don't .....









Pre ek43 I might pull some beans and at more like 1:1.2 to balance out that taste I wanted, or at 1:1

Aim for a ratio as a reference , if that tastes balanced and fine to you all good if not then adjust to the taste or the balance you desire ....


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

jonc said:


> How/why does this work (please!)?
> 
> What's the scientific difference during extraction with your set-up and mine that means this works whereas for me it would taste of evil? Is it that you have less fines or something?


OK for starters Jon there is the grinder, retail price on a Mythos is £2k, it has 75mm titanium burrs, extremely accurate timed dosing and the grind consistency is far far better than your Compak K3, secondly I have the various baskets VST and IMS to play with, then there is the machine, I can adjust the time and pressure of the preinfusion, I can pull the end of the shot at preinfusion pressure if I wish, or run the entire shot at say 7 BAR, I can also adjust the temperature , quickly easily and accurately, If I want to get into doing it I can also use volumetrics on the machine based on either time or flow. On top of all that you can then vary your tamp, or grind coarser and nutate then tamp, use a convex tamper, or a flat one or a trapez convex etc. Basically I have more finite control over more variables with my current setup than you have with the Giotto Evo 2 and your K3.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

A Google hangout on this would be awesome.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> A ratio of 1:1.6 is a reference point , you can adjust away from it, increasing or decreasing to lungo or ristretto or anything in between ( whether an ek43 or a porlex grinder ) not everything will taste great to everyone at that ratio....
> 
> And you shouldn't assume if you hit the 1:1.6 and it tastes unbalanced that it's the coffee fault .....
> 
> ...





Charliej said:


> OK for starters Jon there is the grinder, retail price on a Mythos is £2k, it has 75mm titanium burrs, extremely accurate timed dosing and the grind consistency is far far better than your Compak K3, secondly I have the various baskets VST and IMS to play with, then there is the machine, I can adjust the time and pressure of the preinfusion, I can pull the end of the shot at preinfusion pressure if I wish, or run the entire shot at say 7 BAR, I can also adjust the temperature , quickly easily and accurately, If I want to get into doing it I can also use volumetrics on the machine based on either time or flow. On top of all that you can then vary your tamp, or grind coarser and nutate then tamp, use a convex tamper, or a flat one or a trapez convex etc. Basically I have more finite control over more variables with my current setup than you have with the Giotto Evo 2 and your K3.


That's an interesting compare and contrast

1:1.6 was the standard but DaveC has encouraged everyone to shake things up a bit recently


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I think I was a bit guilty of referencing 1:1.6 as a starter without giving the caveats of change it if you don't like it ...

it could be assumed people were pulling that ratio not enjoying it and moving onto different coffees rather than trying different extractions ...

when dialling in a new be an and grinder you have to sart somewhere ..









You don't need a mythos or an ek to get good tasting 1:1.2 shots either .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> That's an interesting compare and contrast
> 
> 1:1.6 was the standard but DaveC has encouraged everyone to shake things up a bit recently


Don't go blaming me!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Don't go blaming me!


Well between you and the EK crew it's true though


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Charliej said:


> Well between you and the EK crew it's true though


Back to the drawing board


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Jason1wood said:


> Back to the drawing board


I still think 1.6 is a good guide, but it's just a guide. Taste is your ultimate guide.

Playing around and pushing the envelope is the way to the "god shot" as well as some god awful ones.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Haha yeah mate but like some, my palate is somewhat muted with being an ex smoker, so a guide for what to aim for kept me on the long and narrow path, but that path seems to be getting wider.

Will give different ratios a go, need to start experimenting with the temp on the Verona also.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Best espresso from the EK ever today (albeit with a coffee roasted to match a similar water profile to what we use) :

19.6g - > 59.6g (Measured 7.1% TDS)

Ratio of 3 !


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

What was that on your Irish Dial then?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

ronsil said:


> What was that on your Irish Dial then?


It was 1.9 old money / 2.8 Irish (according to the converter)

Medium Nordic roast, developed for soft water


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> God knows what it tasted like Malc, she does this when i am at work, she wouldnt notice anyway, she drowns the shot in 10oz of milk!


I just think it's real cool that your wife uses your machine







Ace!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Jason1wood said:


> Haha yeah mate but like some, my palate is somewhat muted with being an ex smoker, so a guide for what to aim for kept me on the long and narrow path, but that path seems to be getting wider.
> 
> Will give different ratios a go, need to start experimenting with the temp on the Verona also.


Great to hear you're an Ex Smoker - being a health professional I love hearing this.

Try a lower temp with a higher yield. Often produces more sweetness with the SJ.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I'll give that a go mate. I now also have a RR55 grinder. Haha sitting pretty next to the SJ


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I used to but 250g bags of a particular bean but by the time I'd experimented and got it near to where I liked it the bag was done!

1kg bags for me now and I make a point of finding out how long an extraction I can get away with (as well as trying a 1:1).


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Jason1wood said:


> I'll give that a go mate. I now also have a RR55 grinder. Haha sitting pretty next to the SJ


How is the great grinder comparison going Jason I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Charliej said:


> How is the great grinder comparison going Jason I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts.


Well Charlie, to be honest, since I got the RR, the Mazzer hasn't had ANY use what so ever. The RR is that good. I just love the hassle free grinding. I have kept the single shot at 1sec and the double shot at 4 secs. That gives me the option of a 17g or 19g output. Just press for a double and 2 singles = 17g or a double and 3 singles = 19g

I also was lucky enough to get the non static chute model and don't miss the thwacking and brushing out I had to do with the Mazzer.

The grinds feel similar but the OD facility makes life that more simpler, haha what I could do with those extra 2 minutes I save. Haha


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## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Best espresso from the EK ever today (albeit with a coffee roasted to match a similar water profile to what we use) :
> 
> 19.6g - > 59.6g (Measured 7.1% TDS)
> 
> Ratio of 3 !


What you mean with "water profile"?


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Viernes said:


> What you mean with "water profile"?


He means that the coffee was roasted to be used somewhere that has a similar amount of hardness/softness and minerals in it i.e. the profile of the water.


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