# New coffee shop. In at the deep end with no capital.



## gehngus

Hi All.

This is likely to be my first of many.

I,m about to take over a new coffee shop and don't have money or staff to get it started







. Isn't this exciting







and i don't even drink coffee (honest Doctor)!

I have just filled in a topic in the Introductions bit which covers how im in this mess but just a quick re-cap.

It also has other business with an income etc so im not on a commercial suicide mission, the coffee shop opening was to be delayed until i had enough capital to kick start it. But it seems such a waste of potential income.

It comes with New tables chairs, refrigerated display unit (for cakes?), cups saucers, spoons etc.. even a Metal thing with glass jugs for keeping coffee warm.

But no stock and no coffee maker. so I will start with "what type of Coffee Machine"

On the offset, i simply want to provide a "pay at the counter and help yourself" type system, obviously if im not tied up ill will serve, but i can justify extra staff for this from the offset. Ideally with a Take away system so the tourists can grab a cake n cofee and carry on touring the town.

I'm told Bean to cup is the way to go. But im not sure what a bean to cup is capable of.

I have seen many used machines available, some look and sound very good but say "cant do chocolate " so it would help to know what people want to buy as a rule so that i can find something that will do the main items.

Can bean to cup do such things as Mocha and hot choclate and if so, what type of machine?

For peace of mind. next year I hope to get the training and Lauch this as a full service shop with Big frothy gurgle steamer system & Ice-cream counter featuring Mountain sized Coffee madness with local teranean names. I cant wait to drive my first Steam driven Snowdon Chocca chug-a-lotty though the Welsh Marsh (mellows) Crispy toffee valley and the chocolate Forrest of Merlins... sorry getting carried away here...

um yes, what type of coffee machine?


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## Mrboots2u

Hi and welcome , good Luck with your venture may I say .

if If your planning to go bean to cup , or self service , then ignore my post on your other thread of getting training . I presumed you were going to make the coffee yourself , apologies . Self service machines , won't make very good coffee though ......


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## gehngus

Ive seen a Rijo 42 commercial bean to cup coffee machine just over 12 months old. Its a full station with waste, bins etc.

originally cost £9K for sale at a local convenience store which is closing down but is a third of that price now.

Its more than i was budgeting for but it does everything and Includes plenty of stock, enough to pay for the machine twice over at retail by my clacs.

Does anyone have any experience with these. I.e what should i be tire kicking or wanting to look at, do i ask for proof of ownership in case it is on some lease?

Should i look to see if it can be serviced in my area and... Is Rijo a reliable make?

Thanks in advance for any info.


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## gehngus

Mrboots2u said:


> Self service machines , won't make very good coffee though ......


I have to agree. It isnt the best way to start, but fits in my plan as a "tide me over" until i have raised the funding to get trained, afford extra staff and go full service.

I hope to have enough capital and accumulated knowledge by next spring :S but ill know better once i have real trading figures.

Cheers


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## Charliej

Just as an alternative thought have you thought about approaching Costa regarding one of their Costa Express machines as found in Garage forecourt shops etc. I know what everyone will now say about Costa but for whilst you sort yourself out it is at least a brand name people coming in will recognise. I'm not sure what the deal with them is whether its a profit share, you lease/rent it etc. I would think in your situation worth checking out though.


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## 4085

I think you need to go and see the Rijo, get them to fire it up and make you a few drinks. Go away and mull it over. The go to a Costa staion on a forecoiurt and do the same. Then go to a local independent coffee shop and try their wares, and ask yourself which one you would come back to. I know you do not drink coffee but take a friend who does. where in the world are you? perhaps there is a forum member near to you. Just having a coffee station is no good, if the coffee is crap! You could go for a Cona arrangements, where all you need to do is add the hot water and change the filter over. It would take all the faff out of things, get you going nice and quick. Everyone knows what to expect from this sort of coffee and it takes the pressure off your shoulders and will not sost much. Chances are, a local catering company will supply the equipment free if you buy their coffee anyway


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## Eyedee

After reading this thread all through and screwing my face up more as I went on I can only conclude that Charliej has come up with the best solution. IMHO

If you do not know anything about coffee take the easiest option and let someone else provide you with a machine to do the lot whilst taking a smaller cut of the profits.

Ian


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## CoffeeJohnny

Just a thought, how about advertising for someone who may want to make use of that space? they pay you a rent/share of profits, if successful you could potentially forget about it for 18 months, property prices are nuts so someone may take you up on the offer.


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## Geordie Boy

I've seen countertop Costa self service bean to cup machines (I.e. you put the cup under and press the button before taking it to a till, like say a self service cafe). Therefore they must have other options to just those full standing kiosk things


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## froggystyle

Not sure starting a new coffee shop selling standard coffee that can be bought in any garage is the way to go, ok you may make some cash and tick along nicely, but then in 12 to 24 months when you try to turn it into a higher end coffee shop, are people going to come in, bearing in mind they have known it as something else for some time...

If that makes sense!


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## Charliej

I meant one of the Costa Express self service machines as a compromise, where the op is situated there isn't much competition anyway if I remember correctly. The reason for the suggestion is that at least it's a brand that passing trade will know, it might be shit to all of us but a very high percentage of the general public don't think so. I certainly didn't mean having a full blown Costa kiosk and tbh I imagine those machines make better drinks than a lot of the so called "baristas" employed by the chains.


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## gehngus

Hi.

quite true. I did consider leaving the coffee shop unopened for a year then starting properly.

but im selling cold drinks butties mufins snacks etc anyway and its a shame too leave the hot beverage drinkers out.

this way I gain now and in 12 months time when I change it most people will know.

this is the advantage of having a main postoffice. 90% of the local population will come here each year. But the coffee is mainly for tourists who tend to go when the steam train leaves.

I have now gotten hold of a rijo 45 machine which will do for this season and hope to replace it sooner rather than later with a manned coffee counter provided enough l people, come on the new a train to show a worthwhile market for it.


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## bazschmaz

Be a tea cafe and just buy a kettle.


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## Barry Cook

Sorry to say this Gehngus, but you could have set yourself up with a decent "proper" machine AND training for a damn sight less than you would have paid for the automatic machine.

I ended up selling my old 2-group Wega, which was still a perfectly useable, well look after, machine for less than £400 on eBay, and you will find tons more on there. 2nd hand Mazzer grinder will set you back £300 at most. As for training, most roasters will supply that FREE OF CHARGE. Once you get better and get some money behind you, then you can always spend real money on fancy new equipment.

And if you really don't have the passion for it, then as already mentioned, find someone else to run it for you.


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## gehngus

True. But the alternative is wait 12 months and miss out on the seasonal tourist trade.

The advantage i have is that this is also the main post office so 90% of the population visit each year so changes will be seen.

I have purchased a recon Rijo 45 Aequator Brasil Beans To Cup Coffee which i now have running in the house. It will cope to start off with.

the full on shop will have to wait until the funds are available and the tourist trade proves to be there.


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## 4085

Lets hope that the Rijo has not scared them all away by then though! The only thing for certain, is that anyone who knows the slightest thing about coffee will not be buying one from you made with that I am afraid. that is not meant to be harsh, but you have to face the reality that people buy coffee on a repeat basis because they enjoy it, and the machine you have purchased, when compared to the coffee any quarter decent barista can make will be absolutely mullered. If you had bought a decent pour over system like a Cona at least people would know what to expect!


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## dwalsh1

Get a jar of Nescafe and a kettle. Your way over your head.


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## gehngus

I got the 130 cups an hour version used in a popular marina cafe.

this was the only machine they needed and customers keep coming back for the coffee.

to such an extent they have now expanded and gone over to barrista Etf.

The marine cafe staff said it was ideal for the untrained as it cant make a bad cup of coffee.

I spoke to customers abojt thw coffee rather than the staff.

it is incidentally the same model machine used I n the service station model and seems to be robust.

I have bouhgt it outright. No lease. No ties.

im running it now and mywife daughter and all their coffee morning pals love it

Many thanks for all you help


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## Barry Cook

Well, I'm sorry that you chose to pass up on all of the advice given. Please don't think that any of us are just trying to put your plans down, but when a good mix of professionals and very enthusiastic home baristas are giving the same advice then it might be worth paying attention to it. Believe it or not, we all want businesses to succeed when they're making the effort to provide good coffee, and the public will soon suss you out if you're not trying hard enough. Do not make the mistake as many do of treating the customers as "punters", as they will NOT come back - service and quality should be paramount from day one, as if you try to change it in 12 months' time you would have already missed the boat.

Also, a couple of points about your last post:-

Your machine is a bean-to-cup machine. It will break. Many times probably, and then some. The biggest downside of having it all-in-one, over and above the poor quality, is if part of it breaks the whole machine is out of action. The only chance you have of keeping it running is regular cleaning and maintenance which , no disrespect, doesn't sound like it will be done. Don't say you haven't been warned.

"The marine cafe staff said it was ideal for the untrained as it cant make a bad cup of coffee" - obviously the cafe staff don't have any idea about quality coffee. It will make a bad cup of coffee. More than likely, a very bad cup.

"I'm running it now and my, wife daughter and all their coffee morning pals love it" - trouble is, none of them are unbiased. I talk from experience when I say that friends and (extended) family will say the all the right things but that's not what you need to hear.

As a business owner, I welcome quality competition to what I do as I believe it helps to teach the general public what real coffee is about, creating an area known for good coffee which in turn will force the other outlets into providing a better product, which benefits the customer. I remember having a new coffee shop open next door to us a few years ago, and realising they were going to use Origin Roasters got quite excited about someone else doing good coffee until I realised that the only person adjusting the grinder was the espresso machine engineer when he visited to service it.

So, for your own sake as well as for any coffee lover who may visit you, make the effort! You will be rewarded for it.


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## gehngus

things have progressed a little.

The machine is fine and the coffee is good. the previous owner is now giving me all his gear including grinder and coffeemaking thing with spouts and jugs..

I have an ad up for anyone who would like to rent for 12 months..

Ill know more in 3-4 weeks.


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