# Rocket appartamento



## stuartm

Worth considering when it comes out? Anyone know much about it?


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## Mrboots2u

stuartm said:


> Worth considering when it comes out? Anyone know much about it?


[video=youtube;-xjWcObcbV4]


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## Mrboots2u

Some more info here ...doesn't look like its listed on a Uk sellers site yet

http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/shop/rocket-appartamento/


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## Glenn

Bella Barista is expecting these in the Spring

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/news/rocket-espresso-appartamento/


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## funinacup

Machina expecting early 2016.


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## Jiiim

RRP £899 apparently. Looks great. I would like it if it could be plumbed though, but sadly tank only.


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## Mattcolnago

Is there a date yet when this comes out?

Holding off buying any other Rocket as i dont have much space so this would be perfect.


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## Deejaysuave

Yeah i'm in the same boat - be nice if it had a rotary pump though..


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## Jiiim

Not sure it would be that small if it had a rotary pump though. Aren't they pretty sizeable?


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## h1udd

The whole point of it is that it has a small footprint hence the vibe pump ... That's the point of sale of it ... If you gave it a whopping rotary pump it would be the same size as the Giotto .... Of which they already make.


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## Deejaysuave

ha yeah fair point (cake and eat it - that's me!)

High level comparison of specs here -

http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/choosing-your-rocket-espresso-machine/


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## Deejaysuave

Now listed on BB for pre-order, £969.00, shipping in April - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/rocket-appartamento-white.html


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## Jiiim

Oft. I had hoped it'd be a touch cheaper than that. Was thinking around the £800-850 mark.


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## Deejaysuave

Jiiim said:


> Oft. I had hoped it'd be a touch cheaper than that. Was thinking around the £800-850 mark.


Now £949, keep holding on..!


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## stuartm

Anyone used one yet?


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## Andythepole

Anyone tried it yet? Looks like an interesting option compared to a Giotto if you have less space. Bella seem to have them in stock now so wondering if anyone's had a play?


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## inkydog

I also like the look of it, but no reviews to be found yet....


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## NikonGuy

I have just ordered one from Bella, I will be doing a review and will take some internal pictures when it arrives!

Colin


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## stuartm

Excellent!


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## Andythepole

I had a look at one at Bella, looks nice and is quite compact too so ideal if you're limited for space. I went for an ECM in the end due to quality, you can feel it's more solid and better put together than the Rocket machines I played with. The Rockets doo look lovely but in person a lot of the machines are actually as nice as each other so it takes the shiney shiney factor out of it a bit so you get down to the details.


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## inkydog

Looks are important to moi, and the size and styling of the rocket is great. I look forward to reading Colin's pioneering review!


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## NikonGuy

Andythepole said:


> I had a look at one at Bella, looks nice and is quite compact too so ideal if you're limited for space. I went for an ECM in the end due to quality, you can feel it's more solid and better put together than the Rocket machines I played with. The Rockets doo look lovely but in person a lot of the machines are actually as nice as each other so it takes the shiney shiney factor out of it a bit so you get down to the details.


I did consider the ECM but a work colleague had one and had nothing but problems with his. Unfortunately I had to buy blind but on Claudette's advice I chose the Rocket...


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## stuartm

Importantly, what colour and grinder?


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## NikonGuy

The white version and I use a Eureka Mignon Mk2 in chrome, the grinder will be updated next month.


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## stuartm

Updated, what to?


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## risky

@funinacup I believe Machina are stocking these now?


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## funinacup

Indeed - arrived a few days ago. They look great!


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## NikonGuy

stuartm said:


> Updated, what to?


Maybe Mazzer Mini Electric Type A, but still do doing research...


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## Andythepole

NikonGuy said:


> I did consider the ECM but a work colleague had one and had nothing but problems with his. Unfortunately I had to buy blind but on Claudette's advice I chose the Rocket...


Oh dear, that doesn't sound good....


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## NikonGuy

Andythepole said:


> Oh dear, that doesn't sound good....


I would not worry, he did not buy from BB, if he had they probably would have sorted the issues out.

How are you finding your machine? My budget was only £1k so machines like yours were out of reach unfortunately.


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## NikonGuy

Hmm what's this?










New Toy!


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## stuartm

Hopefully not an empty box ;-)


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## NikonGuy

Nice Packing










Nice dust cover for the machine










Included Extras










Free extras I was not expecting from the nice people at BB


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## scottgough

Nice! Get it up and running


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## Andythepole

NikonGuy said:


> I would not worry, he did not buy from BB, if he had they probably would have sorted the issues out.
> 
> How are you finding your machine? My budget was only £1k so machines like yours were out of reach unfortunately.


I love it, to be honest I'm not an expert so probably not getting the most out of it but it's already leagues ahead of my old Gaggia and twinning it with a Mazzer Mini means I am now the one at fault. It seems to be very capable of repeating good shots, and I'm already finding some coffee good and some bad (maybe due to my skill but I think it's more down to the bean) and have ordered some Rave in to check if it's me as it seems like a good bean (Not a fan of the bella roastery beans to be honest, I find them quite acidic but am seeing if I can play with my process to reduce this if at all possible).

I had a budget of 1k too but being in there and playing about I took the plunge (in for a penny in for a pound) as wanted the possibility to plumb in future and the joystick controls are also really great to use compared to turning knobs. There were other advantages too, the noise from the pump is less but this is dwarfed by the grinder so anyone stating they want rotary for noise reduction is just making excuses.

I'm going to get a mat for the top to stop anything scratching it, but other than that I'm very impressed, it's solid as hell and the difference in the lever mechanism compared to the rocket machines I tried was crazy, the rocket ones were scratchy and jumpy and felt weak, the ECM one was solid, it's probably just down to a rubber washer or something, but it felt more like the tolerances in machining were just better.

Either way, it's a strange thing to blow that much cash on something that would seemingly be frivolous and not have buyers remorse! My wife loves it too and is now better than I am with steaming milk so it's now become part of the household routine.

One interesting thing was that I was told not to use bottled water and just fill using a Britta filter on tap water as it reduces the lime buildup, not sure what others think about that as I see so much about people feeding their machines Evian etc...

Anyway, the Rocket Apartamento looks lovely and if I couldn't stretch I would have thought of the ECM Barista (which is on sale so also worth it) or the Apartamento as it's perfect for a smaller place (which mine is anyway I just got greedy) and would definitely be a talking point that also produces great coffee so I think you did very well, just make sure your grinder is also up to scratch (but it second hand no reason to buy new unlike a machine I think).

Congrats on your purchase, I still love the Rocket Machines but am also v happy with the ECM.

Let me know how you get on with the Bella B coffee, interested to see what you think.


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## ianbutler83

I was speaking to one of the guys from Bella Barista at the London Coffee festival. They believe the Appartmento is going to be a massive seller for them. Has anyone had a play around with one yet and tested out its steaming power? Am I correct in thinking spec wise it is very closely matched to a Giotto?

Gaggia Classic, Eureka Mignon, 18g VST, AeroPress


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## NikonGuy

I have not had much time to play with my new machine as I am trying to decide on a new grinder probably the Olympus 75E.

The machine has top rate build quality and the coffee is excellent, the machine has exceeded my expectations. Steaming power is insane, scared me to death first time I flicked the wheel around!

Pictures and videos to follow once I get my new grinder.


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## NikonGuy

The Giotto PID looks specs wise the same except the Appartamento does not have a PID or brew pressure gauge.



ianbutler83 said:


> I was speaking to one of the guys from Bella Barista at the London Coffee festival. They believe the Appartmento is going to be a massive seller for them. Has anyone had a play around with one yet and tested out its steaming power? Am I correct in thinking spec wise it is very closely matched to a Giotto?
> 
> Gaggia Classic, Eureka Mignon, 18g VST, AeroPress


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## ianbutler83

Thanks, looking forward to the videos!

Gaggia Classic, Eureka Mignon, 18g VST, AeroPress


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## glevum

Are BB shipping these 9Bar. probably 15bar from the factory?


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## NikonGuy

Quote from BB with regard to the Appartamento:-

"We bench test all machines and if necessary we adjust the group pressure to between 9 and 9.6 bar of pressure using an external gauge."



glevum said:


> Are BB shipping these 9Bar. probably 15bar from the factory?


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## Mark7

Would like to hear how you are getting on with the Appartemento as looking to buy this week?

Thanks Mark.


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## Dan430

i would like to hear about the appartemento too! Appreciate a user review!


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## stuartm

I got one from BB. I love it. Hard to be objective as it was a gaggia classic --> appartamento. The wait was worth it IMO.


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## yoyo920

I thought this model was replacing Cellini


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## Dan430

yoyo920 said:


> I thought this model was replacing Cellini


yes if you mean the classic. but I'm surprised they make this appartamento looks better then their cellini and giotto (Personal preference, mainly the knobs and cup warmer surround instead of a cheapo ABS plastic.) and i don't know why they don't put a dual manometer on it!







Would love to see a review on the inside and the performance. still waiting!


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## NikonGuy

+1 on the dual manometer


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## MediumRoastSteam

Dan430 said:


> yes if you mean the classic. but I'm surprised they make this appartamento looks better then their cellini and giotto (Personal preference, mainly the knobs and cup warmer surround instead of a cheapo ABS plastic.) and i don't know why they don't put a dual manometer on it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would love to see a review on the inside and the performance. still waiting!


Perhaps to keep the cost down?


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## scottgough

I'd guess that the lack of a 2nd manometer is deliberate segment placing. If it had two manometers, why buy a Cellini or Giotto? I can't believe there's no reviews of the Appartamento out there yet! Really looking forward to seeing how they perform.


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## Dan430

scottgough said:


> I'd guess that the lack of a 2nd manometer is deliberate segment placing. If it had two manometers, why buy a Cellini or Giotto? I can't believe there's no reviews of the Appartamento out there yet! Really looking forward to seeing how they perform.


im not saying 2 manometer but a 2 in 1 manometer. cellini and giotto now is PIDed and perhaps one would choose one over another is footprint size? yeah I've been waiting for a in-depth review since forever!! there isn't even a proper brochure! gotta wait i suppose!!


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## DanInStreatham

There is a short review on machina espresso this morning, which has a photo of the inside of the machine and some commentary on comparisons with the rest of the range.

http://www.machina-espresso.co.uk/blogs/news/116578116-kit-review-rocket-appartamento


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## arellim

I see a few owners on here now as well as more and more videos online etc.

Why the apartmento? Footprint a big one for me, and those copper inserts will convince the wife that it can live in the kitchen I think!


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## DanInStreatham

I have one on order now.

Once I'd decided to get an E61 heat exchanger, the size of this machine was by far the most useful (a combination of footprint and height, as I think there are some narrower but taller, I forget which brand). I've assumed the performance is equivalent to the previous generation giotto/cellini which was highly regarded.

Space is an absolute premium in our kitchen and he size of other models was definitely a deal breaker.

I've ordered white as there is no copper in our kitchen, although they both look equally good to me.


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## arellim

DanInStreatham said:


> I have one on order now.
> 
> Once I'd decided to get an E61 heat exchanger, the size of this machine was by far the most useful (a combination of footprint and height, as I think there are some narrower but taller, I forget which brand). I've assumed the performance is equivalent to the previous generation giotto/cellini which was highly regarded.
> 
> Space is an absolute premium in our kitchen and he size of other models was definitely a deal breaker.
> 
> I've ordered white as there is no copper in our kitchen, although they both look equally good to me.


Arrived yet?!

A few good good tube reviews now online! SeattleCoffeeGear Crew review always good.

Going to see them on Saturday in Edinburgh and will report back!


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## otterolly

I have ordered the copper .... Just waiting on its arrival


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## arellim

otterolly said:


> I have ordered the copper .... Just waiting on its arrival


Popped into Machine-Espresso in Edinburgh on Saturday to see their copper-sided Appartmento- WOW! A really pretty little thing it is indeed! Looked a bit odd without the cup-rail on the top, but very compact and a thing of real beauty.

Can't wait to see your photos and hear how you get on?

*machina-espresso*


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## otterolly

arellim said:


> Popped into Machine-Espresso in Edinburgh on Saturday to see their copper-sided Appartmento- WOW! A really pretty little thing it is indeed! Looked a bit odd without the cup-rail on the top, but very compact and a thing of real beauty.
> 
> Can't wait to see your photos and hear how you get on?
> 
> *machina-espresso*


just got to decide on a grinder now


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## Spooks

arellim said:


> Popped into Machine-Espresso in Edinburgh on Saturday to see their copper-sided Appartmento- WOW! A really pretty little thing it is indeed! Looked a bit odd without the cup-rail on the top, but very compact and a thing of real beauty.
> 
> Can't wait to see your photos and hear how you get on?
> 
> *machina-espresso*


It is a lovely looking thing, saw it in Machina and that copper side panel just pops. As much as I want a dual boiler I await some feedback on this as its a good price for a new machine


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## inkydog

On the Seattle review the Appartamento has a plastic cup rail. I wonder if the UK models are different?


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## otterolly

inkydog said:


> On the Seattle review the Appartamento has a plastic cup rail. I wonder if the UK models are different?


It's plastic on the UK machines as well. I have access to a laser cutting machine and brake press so I am going to try and replicate the plastic one in stainless steel to replace mine


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## inkydog

Look forward to seeing some pics when the machine arrives Otterolly! Great idea to make your own cup rail.


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## otterolly

The only pic I have on my phone









My Eureka grinder turned up yesterday so only had a couple of attempts at a shot last night, will try and dial it in tonight.

First impressions; extremely well made and looks perfect. Operation is also superb !!

Definitely recommended


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## inkydog

Wow, it looks ace! I have a Eureka also. Better start saving up....


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## Troosers

Hello all,

Hope it is ok to jump in here, but thought I would add my big thumbs up for the Appartamento!

I've been in action with it for the past week or so and thoroughly impressed. I'm no expert, but to me it seems like a huge amount of espresso machine for the money. Certainly it is night and day in terms of quality of machine and coffee produced from my previous machine which retailed at only a few hundred £ cheaper.

Would thoroughly recommend to anyone considering the purchase.

The only problem I have now is getting to grips with the bottomless portafilter I treated myself to. My poor technique is definitely being shown up, but I guess that could be an issue for a different thread.....


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## glevum

Looks great, but why are Rocket still using those caution stickers on that lovely E61 group?


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## inkydog

Ah yes, the bottomless porter filter, hours of fun to be had there! I found it was best to do the weighing thing to improve on that front.

How is the milk steaming on the appartmento? Out of interest what machine did you have before?


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## Troosers

Still getting the hang of the steam wand, but there is plenty of power there.

I had a Kitchen Aid Artisan previously. Did a fair job for 8-9 years, but not a patch on the new toy!


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## inkydog

I can imagine it's a big difference form an Artisan. I recently tried out a Rocket Giotto and the milk steaming was extremely powerful, heated in seconds. I'd love to try an Appartamento out. I see that BB has now sold out!

I presume the white sticker on the group head that Glevum mentioned can come off?


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## Troosers

Ah, yes. The caution sticker can be removed within seconds of leaving the box - no room for Health & Safety on such a pretty machine!


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## otterolly

inkydog said:


> Ah yes, the bottomless porter filter, hours of fun to be had there! I found it was best to do the weighing thing to improve on that front.
> 
> How is the milk steaming on the appartmento? Out of interest what machine did you have before?


Still getting the hang of the bottomless portafilter ha ha

Milk steaming is very fast and efficient and a big improvement overmy previous Sage Barista Express.


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## otterolly

Replaced my plastic cup rail with a stainless steel grade 316 one that I made


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## inkydog

Will you be taking orders?


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## otterolly

inkydog said:


> Will you be taking orders?


I would love to but I think work would object 

I can provide the 3D file I made to anyone that wants to get their own cut out ..... Just let me know.


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## Glasgow Al

Can anyone tell me what the cooling flush is like on the Appartamento?


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## Daren

Glasgow Al said:


> Can anyone tell me what the cooling flush is like on the Appartamento?


What do you mean by "what's it like"?

If you mean "how" then lift the lever, let some water pour from the group head until it stops the 'water dance', wait 30 seconds and go


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## Glasgow Al

Apologies for not being more specific - how long does it take normally, from idle.


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## Daren

Glasgow Al said:


> Apologies for not being more specific - how long does it take normally, from idle.


Sorry Al, still not sure I really understand the question? The idle bit is confusing me?

If it helps, the machine (like most) usually takes about 30mins to get up to temperature from cold. There are some tricks to speed this up if you're desperate (but investing in a timer overcomes the frustration for most people)

A cooling flush doesn't take long - normally just seconds (as mentioned above, watch for the water to stop dancing on the shower screen. Once you get to know your machine this will become 2nd nature and you'll be doing it with your eyes shut).

The quantity of water used in the flush varies, but is very small (half a cup maybe)

Cooling flushes are not anything to be worried about.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Daren said:


> Cooling flushes are not anything to be worried about.


Do you use bottled water? How much water does a cooling flush take if you leave the machine on for 30 mins? What about if you leave it heating on for longer, say 45 mins?


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## otterolly

What is the concern over cooling flushes and how much water they use ??

Just make coffee and enjoy !


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## Glasgow Al

I think that cooling flushes just come across as a bit fiddly to someone who hasn't used one. I have read various descriptions ranging between a sinple 7 or so second flush to others with a more complicated two flush technique.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Glasgow Al said:


> I think that cooling flushes just come across as a bit fiddly to someone who hasn't used one. I have read various descriptions ranging between a sinple 7 or so second flush to others with a more complicated two flush technique.


My concern with long cooling flushes is more to do with the water that goes to waste, specially if one uses bottled water, like many of us in Southern England where the water is almost as hard as diamonds.


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## jtferraro

otterolly said:


> I would love to but I think work would object


New member here, just took delivery of my Appartamento Saturday, after waiting 6 weeks! Loving it, and had came across your stainless steel upgraded cup rail a few weeks ago. I completely second inkydog's suggestion to take orders, as I'd LOVE one!

-Jeff


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## Dallah

Hasn't Meo claimed that due to a "superior" design, Rocket HX machines don't need a cooling flush?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Dallah said:


> Hasn't Meo claimed that due to a "superior" design, Rocket HX machines don't need a cooling flush?


Not from my experience. Had a Cellini and needed a 120-150 ml 4-5oz cooling flush.


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## Dallah

pessutojr said:


> Not from my experience. Had a Cellini and needed a 120-150 ml 4-5oz cooling flush.


So I guess the key word is "claimed"


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## MediumRoastSteam

Dallah said:


> So I guess the key word is "claimed"


I'd say so. 

The only way not to do a cooling flush was to leave the machine on from cold for exact 25-30 mins max. Anything after that, you would need a cooling flush.

The p-stat was set at 1.0bar.

If I wasn't feeding the machine with bottled water (Ashbeck), that would not be a big deal for me at all, since I prefer the HX system for simplicity and the fact that you are drawing fresh water every time. Having cooling flushes with bottled water seemed a rather wasteful thing to do. I'd have a plumbed in / out HX machine anytime.


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## Diane1Hill

Advice required, my husband has just purchased this machine and the pressure gauge sits just on the 1bar and never fully goes into the green. Is this normal?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Diane1Hill said:


> Advice required, my husband has just purchased this machine and the pressure gauge sits just on the 1bar and never fully goes into the green. Is this normal?


Hi, welcome to the forum.

It's ok to be in the 1 bar pressure, as that's the pressure of the service boiler, as that's what that gauge shows. You could increase to a higher pressure for higher steaming pressure and consequently higher brew temp.

In short, enjoy the coffee and don't worry about it.that gauge will never move whilst brewing a shot. Only slightly when steaming milk and as the boiler cycles. You will know when the machine has reached temperature when the needle reaches around 1 bar, however such machines such be warmed up for at least 30 mins from cold so the group is up with temp. You will also need a cooling flush before pulling shots.


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## MisterBongo

Diane1Hill said:


> Advice required, my husband has just purchased this machine and the pressure gauge sits just on the 1bar and never fully goes into the green. Is this normal?


Pessutojr nicely sums things up, but just for info I can confirm that my Appartamento peaks at about 1.0 bar of indicated pressure too, right on the edge of the green band. The service tech at Bella Barista assured me this is quite normal.


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## jtferraro

MisterBongo said:


> Pessutojr nicely sums things up, but just for info I can confirm that my Appartamento peaks at about 1.0 bar of indicated pressure too, right on the edge of the green band. The service tech at Bella Barista assured me this is quite normal.


Like you, I don't recall seeing my Appartamento go higher than 1 bar either (maybe a tad).


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## MediumRoastSteam

That would be the same for the Other Rocket HX machines. They set the tstat around 1bar.


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## Chipstix

I'm thinking about one of these from Father Christmas to replace my Sage Barista Express, which although I got it from my brother for free, is leaving me question it's longevity...especially with lack of service parts and repairability..


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## MediumRoastSteam

Chipstix said:


> I'm thinking about one of these from Father Christmas to replace my Sage Barista Express, which although I got it from my brother for free, is leaving me question it's longevity...especially with lack of service parts and repairability..


If you like your Sage, why not keep until you can't use it anymore? Save the money in the mean time, and, when it gives up, buy the kit you want.

If upgratitus is knocking at your door however... That's a different story.


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## Chipstix

I like it but it's not perfect and feels more domestic than prosumer. Since descaling it I have had noisey 3-way solenoid problem which multiple descales won't fix. Sage aware of this common problem. Grinder jammed recently but I managed to resolve on the second 'advanced' clean. Spares seem hard to come by and expensive too. Also things like small portafilter and matching small tamper are annoying - I can't use VST baskets or my nice Reg Barber tamper from when I had a Gaggia Classic with AuberPID. It does make a nice coffee though and the microfoam is decent although slow (which makes learning easier)


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## inkydog

Although you wrote your post 3 weeks ago, Chipstix, it sounds like you need permission from us to go ahead and buy your new toy. Absolutely go for it, your last machine was free, and you're moving towards improving your coffee making experience, plus it's Xmas soon, as long as you can afford the dent in your wallet!


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## inkydog

Just had a quick look at BB site, and the Appartamento has gone up by £100!!! Damn the falling pound....


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## DiscoYou

I had a gawp at one of these in a shop in Vienna today. They're beautiful little things for sure!


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## JackBlackmore

Chipstix said:


> I'm thinking about one of these from Father Christmas to replace my Sage Barista Express, which although I got it from my brother for free, is leaving me question it's longevity...especially with lack of service parts and repairability..


Hey @Chipstix just in case you were interested but I've got the big brother a Giotto Premium Plus v3 for sale at the moment in the sale forums. A quick comparison between the two machines can be found at http://www.espressooutlet.net/espresso-outlet-blog/rocket-appartamento-vs-rocket-cellini-or-giotto-premium-plus-v3-espresso-machines/#.WCrucNWLTDc although just holler if you've got any questions


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## Chipstix

@JackBlackmore thanks - I am intrigued and interested...

My brother in law has an R58 that I've always liked, but didn't want to stretch to that budget and there is no denying it is a large machine! The Appartamento appealed on the lower price and smaller size. That said our kitchen is a reasonable size, I'm struggling to visualise the physical size difference when in situ, particularly the height as we have cupboards over the top. Our counters are 'standard' depth.

The comparison is helpful too, thanks. Its clear that the Premium plus is a better machine and the Giotto diamond shape has grown on me.

I'm away on business this week but will send an email to Mrs Chipstix to see what she thinks. At £800 (or £775 as nearly already agreed ;-) its £250 less than the Appartamento.

Wish I could go and measure up right now!


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## Chrissyh

The Appartamentos are back in stock at Bella Barista. Just ordered one


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## funinacup

Also in stock at Machina Espresso.


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## icedt187

love my appartamento and would love that 3D file, please send


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## ecosse748

Yeah would it be possible to get the 3D file?


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## nzcoffeee61

Hi I would also be interested in the 3D file. what format is it is - solidworks, iges, step?


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## mancbeginner

Anyone else having a problem or can help me to solve mine, after doing an hx flush, the pump turns on, then the pressure drops, presumably as the cold water condenses the Steam, then at a half bar the pressure shoots up to 2 and the realise valve goes off, do you think I have a problem with my water level detector?


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## mancbeginner

mancbeginner said:


> Anyone else having a problem or can help me to solve mine, after doing an hx flush, the pump turns on, then the pressure drops, presumably as the cold water condenses the Steam, then at a half bar the pressure shoots up to 2 and the realise valve goes off, do you think I have a problem with my water level detector?


It doesn't happen every time which is even more annoying when trying to tie it down


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## MediumRoastSteam

If what you say is about the pressure in the service boiler (instead of brew pressure), it seems to me that you have an issue with the pressure stat, and, as it goes sky high at 2bar, the vaccum breaker / safety valve opens to release the pressure.

How old is the machine? If under guarantee I'd contact the vendor.


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## mancbeginner

MediumRoastSteam said:


> If what you say is about the pressure in the service boiler (instead of brew pressure), it seems to me that you have an issue with the pressure stat, and, as it goes sky high at 2bar, the vaccum breaker / safety valve opens to release the pressure.
> 
> How old is the machine? If under guarantee I'd contact the vendor.


It was bought as a valentine's present for the two of us, I will contact the seller


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## MediumRoastSteam

mancbeginner said:


> It was bought as a valentine's present for the two of us, I will contact the seller


Looks like, by the sounds of it, this member is having a very similar problem to yours:

Rocket blows safety valve every once in a while?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=6813&share_tid=37659&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D37659&share_type=t


----------



## CardinalBiggles

Great photos. Rocket and ECM pics are fast becoming my Espresso machine porn of choice.

Cue drooling Homer.....


----------



## GengisKhan

Does anyone know if rocket will release a stainless steel cup rail for the appartamento?


----------



## emrehan

GengisKhan said:


> Does anyone know if rocket will release a stainless steel cup rail for the appartamento?


I think they did, check out the 2017 catalogue in Rocket web site, there is a stainless steel cup surround for Appartamento, it comes standard for other 2017 models.

https://rocket-espresso.com/assets/2017-rocket-domestic-brochure_v2.pdf


----------



## GengisKhan

emrehan said:


> I think they did, check out the 2017 catalogue in Rocket web site, there is a stainless steel cup surround for Appartamento, it comes standard for other 2017 models.
> 
> https://rocket-espresso.com/assets/2017-rocket-domestic-brochure_v2.pdf


Thanks for the reply. I'll message bella barista and see if they will be getting this in stock. Good to know it exists though!


----------



## MRSPIPE

After lots of research it feels like this could be the machine for me. As I live no where near an actual physical stockist I dont have the opportunity to get hands on with the machine. I can see there's a copper and a white version. I presume the copper version is some kind of metal - what is the material of the 'White' in the white version? Thanks


----------



## funinacup

MRSPIPE said:


> After lots of research it feels like this could be the machine for me. As I live no where near an actual physical stockist I dont have the opportunity to get hands on with the machine. I can see there's a copper and a white version. I presume the copper version is some kind of metal - what is the material of the 'White' in the white version? Thanks


White plastic.


----------



## MildredM

Both look great in the flesh. Is there anything in your kitchen that will pick up the copper? Hold up the photo of it in your kitchen and see if that helps decide!


----------



## ATZ

Anymore "in the field" user reviews of these?


----------



## dnicho61

How would the Appartamento go with a Rancillo Rocky grinder? Have a Silvia and rocky but would upgrade separately rather than shelling out for a new grinder and machine at once.


----------



## Mrboots2u

dnicho61 said:


> How would the Appartamento go with a Rancillo Rocky grinder? Have a Silvia and rocky but would upgrade separately rather than shelling out for a new grinder and machine at once.


Poorly ...

What budget do you have for a grinder and machine. Perhaps second hand purchase can help you stretch it further.

Why the apartmentmento.. Space?


----------



## dnicho61

Counter space is one consideration but not a deal breaker. Thinking of changing grinder then machine. The Fausto or Atom grinders seem to have a great name


----------



## dnicho61

Thinking of grinder £400 plus my rocky.

machine £600 + Silvia.

both machines in excellent condition


----------



## Mrboots2u

dnicho61 said:


> Thinking of grinder £400 plus my rocky.
> 
> machine £600 + Silvia.
> 
> both machines in excellent condition


Silvia will max out a 200 on here. You might be better off on e at with it.

Second hand 400 on its own would get you a lot of grinder.

Fausto is the guts of a eureka BTW


----------



## blacktoe

Treated myself to an Appartamento from Bella Barista about a month ago, along with a shiny chrome finish Eureka Zenith 65e. It's such a step up from where I was at previously - Vario + a Gaggia Evolution that had been going for about 10 years. Whilst I'm still learning more and more about getting the best out of both machines I'm already having great fun and getting good results from both.

Spent some time dithering between the Rocket and an ECM whilst in the shop, but so far am happy with the choice I made. Went for the white version - doesn't particularly match anything else in the kitchen (mostly black/red/silver/wood), but looks fine. Was worried the copper might look a bit odd as there was more chance of clashing. At Bella Barista they did mention there might be a way to reverse the side panels inside the machine to show a silver finish, or get another panel cut to replace as some people have modded this way. Might consider this at some point, but for now the white is working fine.

Have attempted to attached a piccy here too, although first time doing this so apologies if it hasn't worked. Also can't see the white bits from this angle.


----------



## Jony

Very nice like the look of the 65e.


----------



## mancbeginner

mancbeginner said:


> It was bought as a valentine's present for the two of us, I will contact the seller


Well finally moved into our new kitchen, got back in touch with Bella barista and they said they thought it could be the water fill sensor on the boiler.

Took off the lid and the the spade clip practically fell off, bent it a bit too make it tighter put it back on and had no trouble since.

Makes you wonder about Rockets quality control though, or was I just unlucky and it came lose in transit?

So if you have a problem with your Appartemento keep filling with water, I recommend you look at the connections first.


----------



## Muska

Does anyone have any experience with using the Rocket bottomless Portafilter with an Appartamento? I'm finding mine locks in further than the regular ones and can leak a little. Should I be looking to change my grind/tamp settings at all? I switched out from the 22g basket straight to my 18g VST and I just haven't got it correct so far









I've ordered a new group gasket just in case and a new IMS showerscreen as it's over a year old now.


----------



## Muska

To answer my own question a new group gasket has fixed the problem I was experiencing with leaking using a naked PF







tried it with the 22g basket it came with and an 18g VST with good results. The handle still like a little further in than a standard PF so perhaps it's just down to the cast or a feature of this naked PF.


----------



## barrymckenna

You happy with it in general? No regrets about not going for a Giotto/mozzafiato?


----------



## Muska

I'm extremely happy with it









I am getting consistently great shots now (the same can't be said for the quality of my Latte art!) I hadn't considered either of the machines you mentioned as they're above my price point but I'm not left wanting for anything with an Appartamento


----------



## barrymckenna

Muska said:


> I'm extremely happy with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting consistently great shots now (the same can't be said for the quality of my Latte art!) I hadn't considered either of the machines you mentioned as they're above my price point but I'm not left wanting for anything with an Appartamento


That's great to hear! I'll probably get the same. Do you find it takes very long to warm up? Do you use a wifi plug?


----------



## Muska

I find about 20minutes everything but the cups is warm enough but a quick pre flush into the cup helps that









I don't use a timer/WiFi plug yet, I may do in the future but I'm finding at the minute it fits well into my morning to turn it on then get ready for work or most of the time I'm likely to be in the house for the most part of the day so it's less time critical.

Best of luck with your purchase, they really are beautiful machines!


----------



## leegillham

Just placed an order for one of these, quite an upgrade from my Faithful Gaggia Classic.


----------



## RoA19

Saw this model in the flesh yesterday - blimey! Impressive piece of kit - looks top quality. I've had the opportunity to get a brand new Fracino Piccino for around a third of the Appartamento price, which for a newbie like me seems too good of an offer to pass up. Can definitely see a Rocket machine in my future at some point though. Am I doing the right thing lol?


----------



## mancbeginner

leegillham said:


> Just placed an order for one of these, quite an upgrade from my Faithful Gaggia Classic.


That's exactly what I did, you won't regret it, especially if you like milk based drinks


----------



## CaffeinatedFox

I love my copper sided apartmento, goes well with my copper pans on my wall. The machine packs a punch!


----------



## GengisKhan

Has anyone had an issue with leaking water at the bottom of the machine? I just filled the water tank as per usual and then started noticing puddles and looked underneath to see it leaking out at the bottom of the machine. (pic attached but was hard to get a decent one by myself)








I took the water tank out emptied it, placed it back and then started to fill the tank in gradually to see if the leaking continued. I managed to fill it up and there doesn't seem to be any leaking now but just wondering if I should contact bella barista and see if they can have a look at it and check its all okay.

Just want to check its not me being over paranoid on these things!


----------



## GingerBen

GengisKhan said:


> Has anyone had an issue with leaking water at the bottom of the machine? I just filled the water tank as per usual and then started noticing puddles and looked underneath to see it leaking out at the bottom of the machine. (pic attached but was hard to get a decent one by myself)
> View attachment 33405
> 
> 
> I took the water tank out emptied it, placed it back and then started to fill the tank in gradually to see if the leaking continued. I managed to fill it up and there doesn't seem to be any leaking now but just wondering if I should contact bella barista and see if they can have a look at it and check its all okay.
> 
> Just want to check its not me being over paranoid on these things!


Any chance you spilled some water down the side of the tank the first time? I did that on my R58 and it caused it to trip out. Took the sides off and gave it a blast with a hair dryer and it was fine again. If you've refilled it and it's not leaking now, there's a chance it was spillage.


----------



## GengisKhan

GingerBen said:


> Any chance you spilled some water down the side of the tank the first time? I did that on my R58 and it caused it to trip out. Took the sides off and gave it a blast with a hair dryer and it was fine again. If you've refilled it and it's not leaking now, there's a chance it was spillage.


That does probably sound the most plausible explanation considering its not leaking now. I'll keep it monitored and see what happens. Thanks GingerBen for the help.


----------



## mikas

Loved my Appartamento!

I wasn't getting consistent extractions with mine before i set the OPV to 9bar. Came from the vendor (or factory) with almost 12...

After the OPV adjustment, everything was bang on!


----------



## M4xime

Looking to upgrade my Classic to a Rocket Appartamento and looking for suggestions for a grinder to match it.

So far I'm looking at either the Eureka Mignon Silenzio or the Niche. I'd be tempted with a Mazzer Mini E if I could find one second hand on here too potentially. Anything else?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

M4xime said:


> Looking to upgrade my Classic to a Rocket Appartamento and looking for suggestions for a grinder to match it.
> 
> So far I'm looking at either the Eureka Mignon Silenzio or the Niche. I'd be tempted with a Mazzer Mini E if I could find one second hand on here too potentially. Anything else?


If you can get the Niche and wait, I personally would. DavecUK did a very thorough review of that grinder, uses it on a daily basis and is very happy about it to the point that his Ceado E92 is in storage...


----------



## mikas

M4xime said:


> Looking to upgrade my Classic to a Rocket Appartamento and looking for suggestions for a grinder to match it.
> 
> So far I'm looking at either the Eureka Mignon Silenzio or the Niche. I'd be tempted with a Mazzer Mini E if I could find one second hand on here too potentially. Anything else?


i might be posting my Anfim SP450 (previously paired with an Appartamento) soon, as i just got an EK43


----------



## M4xime

mikas said:


> i might be posting my Anfim SP450 (previously paired with an Appartamento) soon, as i just got an EK43


Thank you for the offer but I think it'd be out of my price range and it also looks huge!

Out of curiosity, can those be used for single dosing? ie without the hopper


----------



## mikas

M4xime said:


> Thank you for the offer but I think it'd be out of my price range and it also looks huge!
> 
> Out of curiosity, can those be used for single dosing? ie without the hopper


It's probably the same size as your Fiorenzato F5.

Single dosing wise... It retains about 8g-10g and i got fed up with all the waste. It ended up just keeping the hopper with 250g.

There's a guy that found a way to do it with some DIY. If i didn't get the EK43, i would eventually try it.






Btw, for comparison, so you can get an idea of the Appartamento vs grinder size, here are 2 pics. One with a Fiorenzato F4 (the first grinder i got with the Appartamento) and with the Anfim SP450


----------



## M4xime

Thanks for this, really cool setup! To be honest, although it might be a similar size to my F5, I literally have less than 1cm above the F5's lens hood so I think it'd be really really tight even if there is a single dosing solution.

What were your thoughts on the F4? The F4E Nano looks interesting.


----------



## mikas

M4xime said:


> What were your thoughts on the F4? The F4E Nano looks interesting.


The F4 Nano was great, really. Single and double timers worked great but you have to keep a certain amount of beans on the hopper as extraction times would speed up quite a bit if you didn't. Worked best with medium to dark roasts as well, which was the mais reason i got the Anfim as i prefer light to medium roasts.


----------



## Pablosammy

Another new member for the Appartamento club here! Spent an hour or so staring at the Lelit Mara and the Rocket in BB yesterday, but I'm glad I went for the one I did.

Got a Niche on order, and in the meantime I'm making do with a MBK Aergrind which is limiting experimentation somewhat!

Can't wait to get to know this machine a bit better.


----------



## AAD44H

Im starting to talk myself in to the Appartamento as oppose to pretty much anything else in the price bracket or below!


----------



## ATZ

AAD44H said:


> Im starting to talk myself in to the Appartamento as oppose to pretty much anything else in the price bracket or below!


 @AAD44H have you considered the Lelit Mara? Looks more capable at this price point and better features.


----------



## AAD44H

ATZ said:


> @AAD44H have you considered the Lelit Mara? Looks more capable at this price point and better features.


 @ATZ I haven't looked at it to be honest but will do now. Thanks!


----------



## Pablosammy

I could barely decide between the Mara and the Appartamento. They're both great machines, and it just came down to aesthetics for me - I preferred the Rocket. The Mara is a bit smaller. You can't go wrong with either.


----------



## Freewind33

Bonjour,

cet article est pour ceux qui hésitent à acheter la bande en acier inoxydable, pour Rocket Appartamento. Cela ajoute vraiment à l'esthétique générale de la machine. J'ai volontairement placé dans cette direction car les gobelets ne peuvent pas tomber de dos et, en plus, vu le prix que je veux le voir!


----------



## jimmgc51

Looking to buy this machine once it's back in stock, does anyone know if the newer models come with the SS cup rail or is this something I need to purchase along side the machine?


----------



## HowardSmith

jimmgc51 said:


> Looking to buy this machine once it's back in stock, does anyone know if the newer models come with the SS cup rail or is this something I need to purchase along side the machine?


Mine did not come with the stainless cup rail from bb... doubt this model will as it is an extra...


----------



## jimmgc51

Ok thanks for clarifying, will ned to add this to the order then


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Got mine yesterday.

Slight mistake setting up initially ?.......filled the reservoir about half full or more, plugged in, flushed through steam wand and water spout. Ready to brew. Ground, tamped, locked in, pulled the trigger..............oh oh.....green light started flashing, not what I wanted, machine stopped.

I had underestimated how much water the boiler took up.....the reservoir was empty ?, swiftly refilled to max mark.

Crikey!! Beginners.....can't bring them anywhere!!!

Today, after reading alot of articles just getting an understanding of cooling flushes/water dancing etc.

Happy days.

Some beast alright coming from a Gaggia C.


----------



## lake_m

Congratulations on the purchase!

Photos please!


----------



## Alan Kilroy

? Thank you.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Well.....I fluffed that up this afternoon, frothing milk. Didn't really froth. I think I had too little milk in the jug. Needs more practice. Tip too far under surface in initially also. Milk heated up too fast.

Got good froth the other day all the same. Nice cappuccino for 'er indoors. More milk in jug though, I seem to remember.

Needs work.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Rocket App. has a sleep mode?

Just had it on for an extended period this afternoon whilst cutting down a leylandii, which died in the drought of summer 2018 , and......when I came in, the green light was intermittently flashing and pressure gauge was way down, way on down .

This a sleep mode typa thing?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Alan Kilroy said:


> Rocket App. has a sleep mode?
> Just had it on for an extended period this afternoon whilst cutting down a leylandii, which died in the drought of summer 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and......when I came in, the green light was intermittently flashing and pressure gauge was way down, way on down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> This a sleep mode typa thing?


How much water is there in your tank? You should keep it topped up. I'm not aware of sleeping functionality on those machines.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Constantly topped up and full.


----------



## MisterBongo

I've had it where I've let the tank run dry and I get the flashing light. Filling up can still result in a flashing light. If that happens I find lifting and reseating the tank resets things...might be worth a try


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Alan Kilroy said:


> Constantly topped up and full.


So, just to be clear: you are saying that, when you went outside to trim your trees, the machine was on. You then got back in a d found the machine with the green light flashing and without boiler pressure, presumably boiler was off. Was the tank full?


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Tank full. Always full, always topped up.

Flashing how shall I say.....slowly, not rapidly flashing, like it was idling.

Once I ran some water through the showerhead and gave the hot water a small flush, it all started up again.....pressure rose, light went solid, all good.

Was thinking it was some type of Eco mode? No?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Alan Kilroy said:


> Tank full. Always full, always topped up.
> Flashing how shall I say.....slowly, not rapidly flashing, like it was idling.
> Once I ran some water through the showerhead and gave the hot water a small flush, it all started up again.....pressure rose, light went solid, all good.
> Was thinking it was some type of Eco mode? No?


Interesting. So you turned the pump on normally and just works again? If so that's definitely not low water alarm.

I never heard of such feature on those machines. Maybe someone who owns a new one can comment.

green light flashing means low water.... accordingly to the online manual. out of curiosity, is there anything on the manual / booklet that came with your machine?

https://s3.amazonaws.com/imagerelay-assets/client/2615/assets/56513948/Rocket_Espresso_Machines_User_Manual.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJVLMPTIIZCRKAFSQ&Expires=1567123152&Signature=t%2B6VOU7Y0b%2F7u1XdAXcysD8DGts%3D&response-content-disposition=inline


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Read the manual. No mention.

It happened again this morning, turned on about 7am., dogs out, back to bed (day off ). Down 9am for a brew, machine asleep, pressure zero, temp 50c. so flicked the brew lever, machine wakes up.....pressure up in minutes but temp. climbing slowly.

Emailed the agents in Ireland where I bought it from.

Means I have to wait 20 or so minutes to brew though.....not great.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Rectified apparently.

Contacted dealer. He asked was I using reverse osmosis water? No.

Any hissing steam or visible water as in leaks? No.

Tank needs reseating? Did that this morning and thankfully, 3 hours later, all seems settled ie. no blinking power light.

I'm a happy bunny now. Thanks all for help/suggestions etc.

??


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Alan Kilroy said:


> Rectified apparently.
> Contacted dealer. He asked was I using reverse osmosis water? No.
> Any hissing steam or visible water as in leaks? No.
> Tank needs reseating? Did that this morning and thankfully, 3 hours later, all seems settled ie. no blinking power light.
> I'm a happy bunny now. Thanks all for help/suggestions etc.


Excellent! Good news. So, in the end, it was the low water level sensor then (just not due to low water level! )


----------



## Alan Kilroy

@MediumRoastSteam . Rumour has it ?

Thanks for your input.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

This is embarrassing ?.....pressure went again yesterday, took off E61 thermometer this morning and fired up. Outer, M12? nut wasn't tightened sufficiently (I reckon).

A few hours now and with original bolt back in, all is well, but no thermometer.

This must've been the problem, but I didn't want to tighten the M12 down too much, should I have done? Would think so.

I'll go at it again soon.

ps. I'm new to this lark ??


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Alan Kilroy said:


> This is embarrassing .....pressure went again yesterday, took off E61 thermometer this morning and fired up. Outer, M12? nut wasn't tightened sufficiently (I reckon).
> 
> A few hours now and with original bolt back in, all is well, but no thermometer.
> 
> This must've been the problem, but I didn't want to tighten the M12 down too much, should I have done? Would think so.
> 
> I'll go at it again soon.
> 
> ps. I'm new to this lark


It is unlikely to be related to the thermometer. If vapour or water was leaking from there, you would be able to tell, and, if pressure was leaking from there, then the boiler element would be kept on (to keep the pre set pressure). If water was escaping at a rate, then the auto fill sensor would have kicked in and re-filling the boiler, but you said the tanks were topped up and full when this happened. At a guess, you either have a faulty water sensor, or maybe a lose wire somewhere, or you Gicar box (the brain) is faulty. If it's still under warranty, I'd log this with the reseller you bought it from and pursue the claim that way.

I do sympathise: my Profitec 700 machine, 6 months old back then, started playing up with the water level. Luckily Bella Barista was excellent (what else would be expected from them?) and send me a new Gicar box (and trusted me to install it!) which fixed the issue. There's a thread about this a while ago here started by me.

Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Three hours and pressure etc perfect. No, I think I didn't seal the thermometer tightly enough. 4 coffees later, missus incl.

Dealer was notified the last two days and updated as to progress.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Nope.

Gone back to dealership today. No joy. Pressure failure constantly.

I'm gutted as it's my first decent machine, however it's fully covered as it's only a couple of weeks old.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Latest ?☘,

So, agents/dealers contacted me this morning.

They'd contacted Rocket Milan. What's the story.

Apparently, I've got one of a new batch/production line which have a, as I thought, built in Eco switch off/energy saver/EU regs. la di la di la.

90 minute and she falls asleep.

I told her, not her fault of course that they should consider amending the owners manual to save me and others the trouble huh???

It'll be delivered back to me this arvo.


----------



## lake_m

Alan Kilroy said:


> Latest ?☘,
> 
> So, agents/dealers contacted me this morning.
> 
> They'd contacted Rocket Milan. What's the story.
> 
> Apparently, I've got one of a new batch/production line which have a, as I thought, built in Eco switch off/energy saver/EU regs. la di la di la.
> 
> 90 minute and she falls asleep.
> 
> I told her, not her fault of course that they should consider amending the owners manual to save me and others the trouble huh???
> 
> It'll be delivered back to me this arvo.


 Doh!


----------



## DavecUK

Find out how to disable it, this is NOT a feature you want on an HX machine. As an owner you can always choose to use a smart plug, but having it switch off every 90 minutes, or cool right down is ridiculous. If the machine is in half regular use it also saves so little power as to be worthless and it's not that good for the machine either.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Won't be disabling anything.

What I'll be doing is just turning the steam wand or brew lever for a second. That'll keep it awake.

No issue really.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

Alan Kilroy said:


> Won't be disabling anything.
> What I'll be doing is just turning the steam wand or brew lever for a second. That'll keep it awake.
> No issue really.


Or, if you have a smart plug, you could program it to turn it off / on every 85 minutes.


----------



## Alan Kilroy

Yeah....briefly looked at but what a faff. Just going to tap it as I pass by.

First world problem ?


----------



## donjuansids

otterolly said:


> I would love to but I think work would object
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can provide the 3D file I made to anyone that wants to get their own cut out ..... Just let me know.


 Do you still have the 3d file ?


----------



## trbo91

Hey Appartemento owners,

I am new to the forum and my Appartemento arrived just over a week ago and I am really happy with it! I would be really interested in how other people who own and use the machine time their shots. I found a lot of contradicting information and some people count it in, while others don´t.

I have experimented with both but with pre infusion my `good` shoots are over 40 seconds, while if I start the timer once the espresso starts to pour, it gets me right in the sweet spot of 25-30s (both for 18g in and around 36 out).

Also wrote it out in a bit more detail in my latest post here 

How do you guys do it and do you have any recommendations on what is the proper way of doing it?

Cheers,

Tristan


----------



## RocketTim

Hi all,

Just wanted to introduce my company properly on here now that we are a Coffee Forums advertiser.

As an Official UK Rocket Espresso dealer we now have over 200 UK clients of Rocket Appartamentos, Mozzafiatos and R Cinquantottos. We setup every machine in the home as part of our free white glove handover, and includes free training to help you dial in with your grinder. We even provide the beans.

We are on hand with 8 UK based engineers who visit your home if there are any problems with our 2 year on site warranty included. We help everyone get the best out of their Rocket machine, and are here to help whenever you need us, by phone or live chat via our two websites,

https://********.co.uk/ is our dedicated Rocket Espresso only website with 12 months interest free credit plans.

https://*********.co.uk/ is our main website now with a whole range of high end prosumer machines including La Marzocco and Slayer.

We keep Appartamentos in stock at all times in all the colour variations, black/white, black/copper, silver (white) and silver (copper). Price includes free delivery anywhere in the UK by our Rocket trained engineers.

Hope that helps but if you need anything please just call or use our live chat on the website.

All the best, and if you want to see the Rocket machines (including the new EPICA) in person then why not book a demo at our new showroom.

Tim


----------



## P1Fanatic

trbo91 said:


> Hey Appartemento owners,
> 
> I am new to the forum and my Appartemento arrived just over a week ago and I am really happy with it! I would be really interested in how other people who own and use the machine time their shots. I found a lot of contradicting information and some people count it in, while others don´t.
> 
> I have experimented with both but with pre infusion my `good` shoots are over 40 seconds, while if I start the timer once the espresso starts to pour, it gets me right in the sweet spot of 25-30s (both for 18g in and around 36 out).
> 
> Also wrote it out in a bit more detail in my latest post here
> 
> How do you guys do it and do you have any recommendations on what is the proper way of doing it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tristan


 Tbh I dont time the preinfusion - normally just count 3 secs in my head and then hit timer from when I push the lever fully. First drop is normally 6-7 secs and I aim for around 25-30secs for a 19/38g ratio. My biggest issue is the temp as mine seems to idle at 96-98c (GH Thermometer). So almost always see flash boiling when I flush. Looked at dropping boiler pressure to try and reduce temp but seems its not possible (or not every easy) on the newer Appartamentos (I have a Nera since June this year).

Just bought an IMS Baristapro 20g ridgeless basket. Seems better than the OEM one - can grind finer and less channeling. But its more annoying to use as A) my magnetic funnel ring I put on top when grinding direct into the basket (from a Mignon XL) doesnt stick as well (think the rim edge is more rounded so less contact. And B) sometimes when I remove the PF from the grouphead the basket decides to stay put - stuck to the shower screen gasket. Easy enough to get off with a towel but another chance to burn ones hands if not paying attention.


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## MediumRoastSteam

P1Fanatic said:


> My biggest issue is the temp as mine seems to idle at 96-98c (GH Thermometer


 Lengthen your cooling flush. You want something around 93-94C whilst pulling a shot.


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## MediumRoastSteam

P1Fanatic said:


> sometimes when I remove the PF from the grouphead the basket decides to stay put


 You can tension the spring of the portafilter to minimise that. 👍 - failing that, consider a ridged basket. What's the pump pressure set to?


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## Rob1

P1Fanatic said:


> Tbh I dont time the preinfusion - normally just count 3 secs in my head and then hit timer from when I push the lever fully. First drop is normally 6-7 secs and I aim for around 25-30secs for a 19/38g ratio. My biggest issue is the temp as mine seems to idle at 96-98c (GH Thermometer). So almost always see flash boiling when I flush. Looked at dropping boiler pressure to try and reduce temp but seems its not possible (or not every easy) on the newer Appartamentos (I have a Nera since June this year).
> 
> Just bought an IMS Baristapro 20g ridgeless basket. Seems better than the OEM one - can grind finer and less channeling. But its more annoying to use as A) my magnetic funnel ring I put on top when grinding direct into the basket (from a Mignon XL) doesnt stick as well (think the rim edge is more rounded so less contact. And B) sometimes when I remove the PF from the grouphead the basket decides to stay put - stuck to the shower screen gasket. Easy enough to get off with a towel but another chance to burn ones hands if not paying attention.


 The middle position of the lever doesn't do anything, you might get a little dribble from the HX but that's it. The post you quoted appears to be referring to pre-infusion as it is defined as anything before first drips (pre-infusion end at first drips regardless of pressure or flow rate of water into the puck). Although they could still be counting the puck wetting from the dribble as pre-infusion despite the clarification in the thread linked to....



trbo91 said:


> Hey Appartemento owners,
> 
> I am new to the forum and my Appartemento arrived just over a week ago and I am really happy with it! I would be really interested in how other people who own and use the machine time their shots. I found a lot of contradicting information and some people count it in, while others don´t.
> 
> I have experimented with both but with pre infusion my `good` shoots are over 40 seconds, while if I start the timer once the espresso starts to pour, it gets me right in the sweet spot of 25-30s (both for 18g in and around 36 out).
> 
> Also wrote it out in a bit more detail in my latest post here
> 
> How do you guys do it and do you have any recommendations on what is the proper way of doing it?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tristan


 Don't worry about what other people do, or the 'proper' way of doing things, you're doing the right thing just going off how the shot tastes. The time from lifting the lever (starting the pump) is the shot time, pre-infusion time is time until first drips appear. You don't count pre-infusion separately and then aim for a 25-30 second extraction....well you can but there's no point, you're just arbitrarily assigning a time frame to your shots. As you've discovered a shot that runs for 40 seconds can be better than one that runs for 25 or 30.

The proper way of doing it is to ignore time and adjust grind and ratio based on how the shot tastes. Adjusting grind size and ratio will alter time but it's irrelevant. Good for checking consistency form one shot/day to the next but that's it.


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## P1Fanatic

Rob1 said:


> The middle position of the lever doesn't do anything, you might get a little dribble from the HX but that's it. The post you quoted appears to be referring to pre-infusion as it is defined as anything before first drips (pre-infusion end at first drips regardless of pressure or flow rate of water into the puck). Although they could still be counting the puck wetting from the dribble as pre-infusion despite the clarification in the thread linked to....


 Good to know. I had checked it once (after pulling a shot I think) and quite a bit came out. After your post I tried it again before pulling a shot and yes very little came out. That's one variable I can remove from my workflow


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