# Milk quality



## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Is anyone else having milk steaming problems which might be caused by the milk quality.

Usually I am quite competent at milk steaming but the last few weeks either my technique has gone to the dogs or the milk quality is not the same.

I seem to remember this from previous years and worked out that it coincides with the dairy farmers altering the cows' feeding routine maybe from silage to grass.

What goes in has to have an effect on what comes out.

If I'm wrong here just say "hey man your milk steaming is crap and I'll persevere".

Ian


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Try Cravendale at this time of year and then revert back in a few weeks time to your normal supplier.

There is a change happening as the season changes.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

That's the first I've heard of anything like that, but then again, I'm totally clueless at steaming. I might use this excuse.









Totally makes sense when thinking about it. My steaming is all over most of the time anyway.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

When the cows go from grass to grain and also depending on the type of grass and nutrients available to them the milk can become almost watery to start with.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

Glenn, I breathe a sigh of relief, Cravendale is on the shopping list.

Ian


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## m4lcs67 (Mar 16, 2014)

I was at my favourite coffee shop the other day discussing things with them and the subject of milk obviously came up. The milk can actually change depending on what the cows are fed apparently which can change the structure of it. I am getting there with my own milk texturising technique. My milk is lovely and shiny with a look of gloss paint now which is what I am told it should look like.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Glenn said:


> Try Cravendale at this time of year and then revert back in a few weeks time to your normal supplier.
> 
> There is a change happening as the season changes.


You beat me to it there. That's exactly what I do although I can't offer any sort of rational explanation as to why cravendale isn't similarly affected.


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## dwalsh1 (Mar 3, 2010)

Try Yeo Valley full cream. IMO better for steaming/texturizing


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

You definitely do sometimes get a 'bad' batch of milk. The restaurant I work in were using freshways supplier and the whole milk must have been mixed with water because when I steamed it, it just would not thicken at all, no matter how much air I steamed into it. Changed supplier now and not had that problem. If you're paying less than £1 for a 2 liter bottle, then it's probably crap (freshways was about 45p).


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

From a health perspective, the fat profile of milk from grass fed cows is far more favourable to that of grain fed. Less omega 6 (pro inflammatory) relative to omega 3 (anti inflammatory) in grass fed. Same goes for butter. KerryGold butter (just about the only butter available that is truly pastured) comes from pastured cows and is therefore much healthier than margarine, which is rammed with O6 due to the sunflower + veg oil.

http://chriskresser.com/why-grass-fed-trumps-grain-fed

Another reason to opt for better quality milk as apposed to Tesco's own etc


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

MattRobbo45 said:


> From a health perspective, the fat profile of milk from grass fed cows is far more favourable to that of grain fed. Less omega 6 (pro inflammatory) relative to omega 3 (anti inflammatory) in grass fed. Same goes for butter. KerryGold butter (just about the only butter available that is truly pastured) comes from pastured cows and is therefore much healthier than margarine, which is rammed with O6 due to the sunflower + veg oil.
> 
> http://chriskresser.com/why-grass-fed-trumps-grain-fed
> 
> Another reason to opt for better quality milk as apposed to Tesco's own etc


Organic butter/milk would also be pastured, surely?


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

You'd hope so, but you'd be surprised. If you look at the small print, some of them will say the feed is organic, I.e the grains they've been fed are organic.

Companies like Kerrygold, yeo valley and Rachel's organic all put out plenty of info re where the milk comes from and stipulate that their cows are pastured around 10 months if the year. They are also individual farms producing their own products.

Cravendale simply buy milk in and sell it under their brand. Their farmers have to adhere to the AFS (red tractor mark)

The only stipulation they have, is that the cows are fed enough to be healthy!!

So in a nutshell Kerrygold butter and Yeo valley whole milk are the daddies


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

Yeo valley's butter and yoghurts etc are also Bon


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Sorry to contradict you Matt, but you are totally off base in your assumptions regarding dairy cattle, the majority of cattle in the UK are grass fed, both dairy and beef, the change being discussed here is the one from winter feeding back to summer feeding, it's the same for butter as well, Anchor butter for example the cattle are grass fed 12 months of the year. Again no reason to assume that Supermarket own brand milk isn't grass fed, the majority of UK dairy farms feed their cattle on alternatives as well as grass during the winter.

Grain fed beef cattle is something from the USA again the vast majority of beef in the UK is grass fed, and the article you link to is from an American alternative health "guru" in the USA cattle raising practices are vastly different to here, they have what almost amounts to battery farming of cattle unlike the traditional British method of raising cattle on grass.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet Matt, especially from Californian's with an agenda and no relevant qualifications.


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

Fair enough, but I'm still more inclined to buy from a company that is transparent and publishes all the info like yeo valley, as apposed to cravendale who don't.

There are also a lot of products that appear to be butter, when in actual fact they are sunflower oil with a dash of butter.

With regards the battery farming of cattle, I live next door to a farm with dairy cattle that are in sheds year round and have never stepped hoof on grass, hence my scepticism.

Also I'm not sure what Kresser's hidden agenda is? He's a functional medicine practitioner who puts out mountains of info re improving health and longevity. I'm unlikely to get a flight to the U.S to see him for a consultation. I have used his info along with Robb Wolf's with remarkable results. All that info was free on their respective sites, blogs, podcasts and is all backed up with sound research etc. Most qualified nutritionists in the UK are prescribing diets that have been shown to be problematic at best and years out of touch.

But yes maybe I'm getting a bit anal re the milk. Don't get me wrong, if I'm in a rush and can't find the stuff I'd usually get, I will buy the alternatives and I'm still alive and kicking.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Lol I find it amusing that one person says don't believe all your read on the internet to another person on the internet , whilst offering a different theorem.

Ah modern communication and the spread of knowledge is a confusing mindfield of facts ....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If most British cattle are grass fed why does grass fed beef command a premium?


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> If most British cattle are grass fed why does grass fed beef command a premium?


I think the issue is winter and probably much more costly/difficult to grass feed all year long? This is when most uk cows will be inside and fed a mixture of feed.

I think grassfed beef in America is actually similar in cost to our standard beef, I remember seeing prices quoted when I was trying to compare and the US standard beef prices were ridiculously low from memory


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

It also seems odd that if most British cows were grass fed, then why do companies like Severn valley, make a point of stating that fact on their steak packaging, whereas tesco et al don't.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

My view was that most beef was grain fed, or at least fed on shite, and that's why it had less omega 3s than grass fed beef which is generally held as being much better for you and having a better fat profile.

I used a good butcher at Smithfield Market and grass fed was a bit more expensive which would imply the normal beef is being fed on something else. They did some Irish grass fed but most came from Oz IIRC.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Most cows in the UK will be grassfed most of the year, however winter is different and hence why brands who grass feed all year will shout about it and charge a premium!!

But as Charlie said the US has totally different standards or lack of for their production of meat


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Just did a quick comparison between ribeye on Asda (UK) & Walmart (US) just to satisfy myself wasnt talking total rubbish. Obviously the steaks wont be the very best you can get but should be a comparable product

UK - Asda- ribeye - £17.61/kg = $29.20/kg

US - Walmart - ribeye -$19.73/kg = £11.91/kg


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## frasermade (Feb 26, 2014)

kikapu said:


> Just did a quick comparison between ribeye on Asda (UK) & Walmart (US) just to satisfy myself wasnt talking total rubbish. Obviously the steaks wont be the very best you can get but should be a comparable product
> 
> UK - Asda- ribeye - £17.61/kg = $29.20/kg
> 
> US - Walmart - ribeye -$19.73/kg = £11.91/kg


That's my biggest problem. I can't, for love nor money, get any decent microfoam from my steaks.


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## Lewis (Sep 6, 2012)

Glenn said:


> When the cows go from grass to grain and also depending on the type of grass and nutrients available to them the milk can become almost watery to start with.


I went to a talk from SCAE UK on milk chemistry at LCF this was mentioned but the tl;dr was that the feed makes very little difference to the structure of the milk and it is the processing/storage of the milk that will give you problems texturising the milk


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

All the stuff about grass fed beef in this country is just marketing, my local butcher explained about all this to me some time ago as I was curious, there are a few dairy farms in the UK that have or are trying to move over to this crazy american system of keeping your cows in a big shed all year round, battery farming basically. Grain fed beef has a different more "squidgy" texture and is hence more tender which in the USA they seem to prize over flavour, as most American beef is grain fed grass fed there has a higher price which it seems is being tried on over here.

If you buy your meat sensibly from a local butcher rather than a supermarket then you will generally get far higher quality meat, something else to remember about beef in the USA is their high use of growth hormones, antibiotics and other nasties you don't really want to be eating.

I generally speaking buy local organic milk and butter from either farm shops or my local branch of Booths which could be said to be the Waitrose of the North West, except Booths is better.


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

Charliej said:


> All the stuff about grass fed beef in this country is just marketing, my local butcher explained about all this to me some time ago as I was curious, there are a few dairy farms in the UK that have or are trying to move over to this crazy american system of keeping your cows in a big shed all year round, battery farming basically. Grain fed beef has a different more "squidgy" texture and is hence more tender which in the USA they seem to prize over flavour, as most American beef is grain fed grass fed there has a higher price which it seems is being tried on over here.
> 
> If you buy your meat sensibly from a local butcher rather than a supermarket then you will generally get far higher quality meat, something else to remember about beef in the USA is their high use of growth hormones, antibiotics and other nasties you don't really want to be eating.
> 
> I generally speaking buy local organic milk and butter from either farm shops or my local branch of Booths which could be said to be the Waitrose of the North West, except Booths is better.


Don't believe everything you hear at the butchers Charlie, especially from Butchers in the North West, they may have a hidden agenda


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

MattRobbo45 said:


> Don't believe everything you hear at the butchers Charlie, especially from Butchers in the North West, they may have a hidden agenda


Lol a family firm that have been there for over 100 years, and during the recession they expanded into a bigger shop, he only buys local meat and it always says which farm it's from. So yeah I trust him not least because I have a mate that works for him anyway so I get to know a little more than most customers will, stuff like the boss will reject carcasses that aren't up to his personal standard when delivered etc.


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## MattRobbo45 (Oct 3, 2012)

I was kidding mate. I have a similar venue that I get my meat from, when I can afford it. When I can't i do my homework and pick from the best of a bad bunch.


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## Atilla (Mar 31, 2014)

Aubrey Allen beef.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I need to find a decent wholesalers up here now. Buy about 6kg of meat a week. Smithfields was so cheap.


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## Billywiz1307 (Aug 21, 2013)

I live in the North West 15 miles south of Manchester. Coincidentally, last weekend, I too thought that my milk texturing had taken a turn for the worse. By chance I had milk in the fridge from Costcutter and some from Booths their Everyday milk. I conducted tests, one after the other and found that the Costcutter milk delivered inferior foam with large bubbles emerging after a few seconds whilst Booths milk was much more compliant producing velvety micro-foam.

And the previous posts on this thread have taught me something I didn't know.

Dave


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