# not happy



## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

just brought a classic and i cant get on with it at all, in fact its become a pain to use, so look out in the for sale section soon


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

What are you struggling with tony? Took me a while to get on with mine to start with.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Items for sale , tend to go quicker when people know a little it about the person selling tony.so perhaps a not of info in a new members section might help ..

Plus perhaps we can help you resolve your frustrations is you tell us what they are


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

I guess I was expecting to make espresso easier than itis, so would be my own fault, I seem to have spent more time messing with thegrinder and trying to get a decent shot than actually having a relaxing drink, Iunderstand the balance has to be correct, correct pressure and the timing ofthe shot etc. but everything up to now has been bitter and not good tasting at all.So the Gaggia is now been delegated from the kitchen.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Tony, can we perhaps help you in some way re-evaluate the Classic?

If you were able to get something at least acceptable, would this change your decision?


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

I second MWJB. You're alternative at this stage really is bean to cup or pods and you will only get from that what you get out of your classic at its worst. I had exactly that issue with my classic, one day it clicked once I got my tamp and ratio's better.

Can we also assume you're not using the pressurised filter, fresh ground beans etc?


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

2p worth, as has already been said pods and bean to cup works with little effort. BUT if you want good coffee you will need to adjust the grind and time the shot whatever machine you have.

The Classic is a good training machine prior to moving up and can produce GOOD coffee but you need to persevere.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Espresso does not come easy.

You have to obey some basic rules but once you take the time to get there I think you'll find it well worth the effort.

Tell us what you are currently doing & someone will be able to advise.

BTW - Welcome to the Forum. Lets hear a little more about you. It will stand you in good stead if you do decide to sell.


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## Eyedee (Sep 13, 2010)

As has been said previously it's effort and reward. You have to realise the limitations of the operator because if all the other variables are in place the classic will give you good shots. Rome wasn't built in one day. Just accept the offer of help and persevere.

Ian


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Small check list that might find any you haven't thought of thus far.

Are your beans fresh ie less than 4 weeks old and how do you store them ?

What kind of grinder are you using?

When did you last clean out your grinder?

Do you live in hard water area? Do you descale often? Do you back flush?

Are you using the tamper that came with machine?

How long do you wait for the machine to heat up?


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

seeq said:


> I second MWJB. You're alternative at this stage really is bean to cup or pods and you will only get from that what you get out of your classic at its worst. I had exactly that issue with my classic, one day it clicked once I got my tamp and ratio's better.
> 
> Can we also assume you're not using the pressurised filter, fresh ground beans etc?


I am not using the pressurized filter that came with theGaggia and have tried two types of fresh beans, tamp is about right (kitchenscale method), consistent weight of beans 16g

I have a bean to cup machine and I am thinking I should have stuck with this asits so much easier and convenient to use.

It's obviously an art to use the Gaggia correctly.


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

beans are only a two weeks old from has been and have been stored in the bag they came in in the dark etc

machine is only a few days old purchaed last week

grinder is also new an Ascaso mini

not hard water

Motta 58 mm tamper

machine is left for at least 20 mins to warm up


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

What are the beans please? Fresh roasted ?

Your right that a gaggia isn't a push button / coffee to go machine .

There are some basic skills and processes to learn.

A bean2cup will be more convenient in terms of the input from the user required , you need to weigh up if this outweighs the potential ( as it seems your not yet hitting it yet ) improved tastyness that a machine and grinder can deliver


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

As people have said there are some major rules. Most of which you seem to be adhering to.

How clean is the machine? That makes a HUGE difference if it's not cleaned regularly using something like puly caff to remove coffee grounds.

How do you measure your weight of beans/grinds in and how do you measure the amount of espresso you get out?


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Where are u located a member might be able to pop round and help? Could you do a little video and stick it up of your routine? , again the more info we have the greater the chance of solving your problem.

Are you trying the same drink from both machines did you drink espresso from the b2c?


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## Tiny tamper (May 23, 2014)

Your beans could be stale what's the roast date on them? Are they in an air tight bag in the cupboard? Is your hopper exposed to direct sunlight?


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Tony, what is the extraction time and weight? You should also take the portafilter out once you've locked it in place to make sure the grounds are not hitting the shower screen...


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

The beans are El Salvador Finca Santa Petrona Pulped Natural Red Bourbon and raosted recently i used other as well but cant remember what they weere


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

thanks for everones help so far

the machine is brand new and was flushes several times before use

beans weighed on scale the espresso also weighed on scales


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

Tiny tamper said:


> Where are u located a member might be able to pop round and help? Could you do a little video and stick it up of your routine? , again the more info we have the greater the chance of solving your problem.
> 
> Are you trying the same drink from both machines did you drink espresso from the b2c?


i am located in east sussex near to Tunbridge Wells i work away so a video is not possible


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

stevenh said:


> Tony, what is the extraction time and weight? You should also take the portafilter out once you've locked it in place to make sure the grounds are not hitting the shower screen...


+1, it would be good to know the output in the cup in g, from your 16g dose. It's a good idea to stick to a ratio, then adjust grind only, subject to taste tests, keeping everything else as consistent as possible. Scales that read to 0.1 would be good, as would weighing the grinds in the basket/pf rather than weighing the dose put into the grinder.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

tonyf said:


> thanks for everones help so far
> 
> the machine is brand new and was flushes several times before use
> 
> beans weighed on scale the espresso also weighed on scales


How long have you had the machine ?

If from amazon etc then you could still return it and get your money back .

As said if your after push button convenience then the bean2cup it's least user input way to make coffee .

What made you get the classic instead of using the bean to cup ?

The is no shame in it wanting to dose, tamp , temp surf and weigh to make coffee . It is not for everyone ...


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

Definitely weigh grounds in basket as the ascaso grinders have quite high retention...


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

stevenh said:


> Tony, what is the extraction time and weight? You should also take the portafilter out once you've locked it in place to make sure the grounds are not hitting the shower screen...


extraction time i found was hard to get to 25seconds, i only got a max of 9 seconds, the grinds are not hitting the screen


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

9 seconds will taste sour and extremely rank!

Check your dose weight in the basket.

Try just a light tamp to get started.

Adjust grind to much much much finer.

For the Ascaso i-mini i'd say another 3-4 full turns...


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## seeq (Jul 9, 2011)

As Steven said. Much much finer, and maybe a harder tamper. You have to push down hard than you think, although you say you've tried to calibrate it, if you don't have some scales that can measure to 0.01 gram then get one (only £3-£4 on eBay) measure your beans in, on a stock gaggia basket start with 14g. Then weigh how much you get out. You are aiming for around 28g out in 27 seconds. If you're getting 28g quicker then grind finer if it starts taking 30+ seconds then grind coarser. You will find a huge difference in taste if you get that right. As steve says, a 9 second pour will taste awful.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

tonyf said:


> i am located in east sussex near to Tunbridge Wells i work away so a video is not possible


 Tiny tamper's suggestion is a good one. When I bought my Classic from a forum member it was my first venture into making espresso. I went to collect it and had a demo (only about 20 minutes show and tell) but it tuned me into what I needed to focus on (I didn't know what I needed to know, let alone how to operate the Classic to get the best from it), supplemented by forum advice (as you are experiencing) and some YouTube videos. There will be someone on the forum not far from where you are or where you work and maybe all you need is half-an-hour. Please stick with it - I have had some frustrations but a lot of pleasure.


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## stevenh (May 15, 2014)

When I used an Ascaso i-mini, i lost track of how many times i had to turn the knob to get it fine enough... start by at least 3-4 turns from where you are now then go 1 turn each time until you are in the ball park of 20-30 seconds then fine tune it from there... Once you've found this spot on your grinder you will only need to adjust it by +/- 1 turn to account for different beans and age etc.

Also remember to run some beans through the grinder when changing grind settings and throw out the grounds... prob 5-10g in between changing settings as retention rate is quite high... give it a good knock and a few taps to get rid of grounds in the chute.


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## JK009 (Apr 18, 2014)

El carajillo said:


> The Classic is a good training machine prior to moving up and can produce GOOD coffee but you need to persevere.


+1 , when you understand Gaggia Classic, it will help you to make a good shot. However, after understanding Gaggia, you will find out that there are some limitation. But for its price, I will complain NOTHING.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I've got a Classic too, and when I first got it I did suffer a bit of buyer's remorse after wasting a whole bag of beans and realising that all I had produced was sour rubbish. Then I re-read various threads on here, got some scales and a proper tamper, tightened the grind and upped the brew temp (mine has a PID). I still manage to make a hash of it sometimes, either gusher or choker, but most of the time I get great espresso and/or cap, though it still takes me a while faffing with all the prep.

The thing in my favour is I actually enjoy the ritual as much as the coffee itself. If this could be you then I urge you to persevere, it will be worth it. If you're looking for a café quality coffee in under a minute and can't be doing with all the messing about, you might have bought the wrong thing. It's very much hands on involvement, which is part of the fun for me but I totally get how it seems like too much hassle to others, especially when the results are disappointing, which is normal for the first few days.

The only buyer's remorse I suffer now is kicking myself for not having bought the guy's Super Jolly when I bought his Classic.


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

hotmetal said:


> I've got a Classic too, and when I first got it I did suffer a bit of buyer's remorse after wasting a whole bag of beans and realising that all I had produced was sour rubbish. Then I re-read various threads on here, got some scales and a proper tamper, tightened the grind and upped the brew temp (mine has a PID). I still manage to make a hash of it sometimes, either gusher or choker, but most of the time I get great espresso and/or cap, though it still takes me a while faffing with all the prep.
> 
> The thing in my favour is I actually enjoy the ritual as much as the coffee itself. If this could be you then I urge you to persevere, it will be worth it. If you're looking for a café quality coffee in under a minute and can't be doing with all the messing about, you might have bought the wrong thing. It's very much hands on involvement, which is part of the fun for me but I totally get how it seems like too much hassle to others, especially when the results are disappointing, which is normal for the first few days.
> 
> The only buyer's remorse I suffer now is kicking myself for not having bought the guy's Super Jolly when I bought his Classic.


i think that sums it up, buyers remorse and the faffing around i knew it wouldn't be easy but didn't expect so much hassle

its a day after my last attempt and the bad coffee taste is still fresh with me i was not expecting that

So i think the full set up is going to be offered up for sale, on that note what should i expect to be able to sell for the set up for, it cost me £430 for machine, grinder, none pressurized set, tamp and mat


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

It could quite easily be the beans themselves that just aren't to your taste. How would you describe the flavour of your ideal cup of coffee?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

tonyf said:


> i think that sums it up, buyers remorse and the faffing around i knew it wouldn't be easy but didn't expect so much hassle
> 
> its a day after my last attempt and the bad coffee taste is still fresh with me i was not expecting that
> 
> So i think the full set up is going to be offered up for sale, on that note what should i expect to be able to sell for the set up for, it cost me £430 for machine, grinder, none pressurized set, tamp and mat


If i was you i would leave the kit alone for a few days, don't think about it and go back at the weekend maybe.

Take the advice given and spend a while playing with it, getting your grind right, tamp right, temp right... You will be rewarded with a decent shot if your beans and everything else is right.

Are you only after Espresso? if you want it with milk then this will hide some of your mistakes, not ideal but you will get some drinks out of what you are doing, you can keep playing with the espresso shots to get them right, have you tried espresso at a decent coffee house, not starbucks or nero or any of the chains?

If you do end up selling, then i think you may struggle to get back what you paid, on here your going to get maybe £250-£300 for the bundle at a push, there are plenty of them on ebay for £100...

Stick with it.


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Where are you based?


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

east sussex near to Tunbridge Wells

Not me, the OP


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## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

Strongly suggest you visit a kind member with a similar set up (or at least a classic) to see how it can be done. Or maybe you can convince someone nearby to visit you?

Also do have a think if you're happy to deal with a longer routine vs making instant or using pods, it's not for everyone, but the result can be very rewarding.


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## mraie (Jun 29, 2014)

I have brought the classic too and found I needed to weight out 18-19 gram of whole bean to get a good shot. Weighting out also removes a variable from the set up so you should only have to focus on the grind as you seem to have the tamping down.I also have to buy a good tamper and I am going to do the OPV adjustment soon.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

OPs a kit is now for sale in threads


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## tonyf (Aug 10, 2014)

thanks for the advice much appreciated, but as stated its going to be sold


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Edited see next post !


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## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Fair enough this espresso milarky is not for everyone and it does require a considerable amount of time and patience to be invested. It's just a shame you never realised the potential of your kit. From your posts it seemed there was nothing but common starter problems that could have been fixed.


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## Ferdy (Jun 9, 2014)

Was in the same position - still learning and still messing up about 10% of my shots but its worth it.


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