# Unlimited moolah?What would you buy,and why?......



## Jonathon (Mar 9, 2013)

Hi,

I've just ordered a Gaggia Classic via the Amazon warehouse-which should be here for the weekend-as my first "proper" machine.

It's advertised as having a damaged box and cost £126 and pence and I will hopefully post some pics when I take delivery.

This will be coupled with an Iberital MC2 fromhttp://www.happydonkey.co.uk ,both recommended by many on this forum as a decent starter kit,for which I say a huge thanks!.

I will also probably upgrade the Pannarello to a Rancilio steam wand-how much better is the Rancilio by the way?-and look at fettling the OPV down to 9(ish) bar.

I'm also in the process of ordering a Motta 58mm tamping stand kit,jug and a few other bits and bobs from http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk

With regard to the above thread title:

Should I get the upgradeitis "bug" I will be looking for a better machine in the future-as almost everyone does on here it seems!-,and quite fancy the Expobar Office Leva,coupled with a Mazzer Super Jolly or similar,does that seem a good choice?.

I know this may be construed as possibly running before I can walk,but I think/*I* *know*,that I'm showing early,incurable symptoms!

Moreover.I am currently driving my wife completely barmy although I don;t suppose that this is unusual?

So,if you had unlimited funds,what would *YOU *buy and why?

Thanks and regards,

Jonathon.


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## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

Unlimited moolah?

La Marzocco GS3 ( or a kvdw speedster if I could find one )

Versalab M3

More sensible:

Rocket R58

Mazzer super jolly

Yet more sensible:

My fracino cherub









Mazzer mini


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

You need to swap the pressurised basket out for a standard one as well, cheap mod but makes a lot of difference to your espresso! And of course some freshly roasted beans from one of the roasters in the beans subforum to compliment your setup









Unlimited Moolah = a Londinium I* and probably an HG One, relegating my Vario to filter.

* I may already have blown much of my moolah on one, and I love it!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

a Mahlkonig K3 !!


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

and.. La Marzocco FB80


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

I'm happy with wot Ive got.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I'd probably buy a Dualit Espressivo and a Russell Hobbs blade grinder if I had unlimited moolah.

I'd then buy a large amount of high-powered explosives and show my appreciation for this modest setup with some sort of detonation


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## joshuachan28 (Mar 7, 2012)

A one group head Synesso Hydra or a kvdw speedster. One step down would of course be a Rocket R58. I can't decide what is the ultimate espresso grinder for home usage. All the commercial grades ones have too much retention. You waste like 4 baskets worth of coffee when changing grind size. Maybe a uber boiler for my counter top in the kitchen and a marco uber grinder for my brewed coffee.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

For sheer outrageousness, got to be a Speedster.


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## joshuachan28 (Mar 7, 2012)

The speedster actually costs JUST 5800 Euros (~£5000) which is almost nothing compared to a one group head synesso which goes for 9500 USD (~£6255) while the GS3 is about £4000. I wonder how much a custom built one group head slayer costs.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

joshuachan28 said:


> I can't decide what is the ultimate espresso grinder for home usage. All the commercial grades ones have too much retention. You waste like 4 baskets worth of coffee when changing grind size.


HG One - zero coffee retention - 83mm burrs, mmm, nice.


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## joshuachan28 (Mar 7, 2012)

I would love to see somebody use the HG one at WBC or some competition. "I'm sorry judges, give me a few minutes while I hand grind my beans to make some espresso for all of you". As much as the HG one is an extremely well built grinder, I'm not sure I will go back to a hand grinder after having an electric grinder. I still remember how much work it was to grind beans fine enough for an espresso on my hario slim hand grinder.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

2 group Cynesso or LM Linea - PID / Volumetrics / pressure and flow profiling

Anfim Super Caimano for one group & Robur-e for the other

Uber Grinder for Brewed / Uber font for water

Custom reverse osmosis / filtering for water set-up


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## Jonathon (Mar 9, 2013)

Stone the crows!!Theyre all gorgeous pieces of industrial art,but at €5000+ & $9000+ respectively?

Would you even be able to taste the difference over lesser machines,and I wonder if anyone has ever conducted blind tastings?

I would love to see the results if there were!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Jonathon said:


> Stone the crows!!Theyre all gorgeous pieces of industrial art,but at €5000+ & $9000+ respectively?
> 
> Would you even be able to taste the difference over lesser machines,and I wonder if anyone has ever conducted blind tastings?
> 
> I would love to see the results if there were!


Very good question. Spending four or five times more on a machine doesn't give you four or five times more extraction quality.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

i thought this was a no limits ultimate / dream set up?


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

joshuachan28 said:


> I would love to see somebody use the HG one at WBC or some competition. "I'm sorry judges, give me a few minutes while I hand grind my beans to make some espresso for all of you". As much as the HG one is an extremely well built grinder, I'm not sure I will go back to a hand grinder after having an electric grinder. I still remember how much work it was to grind beans fine enough for an espresso on my hario slim hand grinder.


There is a little bit of difference between a Hario and an HG One... I replaced my Mazzer Super Jolly with an HG One for a massive upgrade. It takes me around 20 seconds to grind 16 gm of beans... That is about the same as the SJ (maybe slightly quicker), but then I have to insert tools into various orifices to get all of the coffee out... I don't want stale coffee in the next shot! ...Another 20 seconds.

The SJ is not only slower overall, it doesn't grind to the same standard.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

joshuachan28 said:


> I would love to see somebody use the HG one at WBC or some competition. "I'm sorry judges, give me a few minutes while I hand grind my beans to make some espresso for all of you". As much as the HG one is an extremely well built grinder, I'm not sure I will go back to a hand grinder after having an electric grinder. I still remember how much work it was to grind beans fine enough for an espresso on my hario slim hand grinder.


I figured the workout I get using my HG One would render my gym membership redundant - money saved would cover the cost of the HG - well, that's what I told my wife - not impressed!


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

Jonathon said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just ordered a Gaggia Classic via the Amazon warehouse-which should be here for the weekend-as my first "proper" machine.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you got a great deal there. How much better is the Rancilio Silvia? Well a decade ago, both it and the Gaggia Classic cost the same: about £295. Back then there was no decision which to buy. Since then, they've gone in opposite directions pricewise and Silvia is now >£400? Silvia is a better machine, but not that much better, IMO. You are getting far better value with your Classic; from what I've read it just takes more care to get things right.

Ultimate setup? I'd get 3-phase electricity laid on at home and buy a 2-group LM Linea black with paddle groups and a 3-phase polished Robur doserless


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

painty said:


> Sounds like you got a great deal there. How much better is the Rancilio Silvia? Well a decade ago, both it and the Gaggia Classic cost the same: about £295. Back then there was no decision which to buy. Since then, they've gone in opposite directions pricewise and Silvia is now >£400? Silvia is a better machine, but not that much better, IMO. You are getting far better value with your Classic; from what I've read it just takes more care to get things right.
> 
> Ultimate setup? I'd get 3-phase electricity laid on at home and buy a 2-group LM Linea black with paddle groups and a 3-phase polished Robur doserless


I beg to differ, the modern day silvia is a much better machine than the gaggia classic, and to the contrary, the silvia requires more work than the forgiving little gaggia, but having used them side by side I can assure you the silvia is much better made, has much better componentry and produces a much better shot, but it does cost twice as much!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

painty said:


> Silvia is a better machine, but not that much better, IMO. You are getting far better value with your Classic; from what I've read it just takes more care to get things right.


The fact that the Silvia is on its third version says a lot about its popularity. Rancilio know they've got a winner and sensibly are not sitting on their laurels unlike, sadly, Gaggia since their take over by Philips. Shot-wise, I agree with Coffeechap, once dialled in, the Silvia can deliver very superior shots which the Classic just can't match. Paying twice the price - Classic to Silvia - guess it depends on whether you think it's worth it. Gauging by the number of Silvia owners out there, a lot do.


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## painty (Jul 25, 2011)

coffeechap said:


> I beg to differ, the modern day silvia is a much better machine than the gaggia classic, and to the contrary, the silvia requires more work than the forgiving little gaggia, but having used them side by side I can assure you the silvia is much better made, has much better componentry and produces a much better shot, but it does cost twice as much!


Yes I wouldn't disagree with you that Silvia is better made, the Gaggia being more plasticky, and those plastics being apparently more brittle than those used on Silvia...



The Systemic Kid said:


> The fact that the Silvia is on its third version says a lot about its popularity. Rancilio know they've got a winner and sensibly are not sitting on their laurels unlike, sadly, Gaggia since their take over by Philips. Shot-wise, I agree with Coffeechap, once dialled in, the Silvia can deliver very superior shots which the Classic just can't match. Paying twice the price - Classic to Silvia - guess it depends on whether you think it's worth it. Gauging by the number of Silvia owners out there, a lot do.


I think a lot of Silvia's popularity has been self-sustaining due to its huge web-presence right from the early days of the whole craft coffee revival. People go on the web to research a new purchase and read the reviews, look on the forums and are inundated with Silvia articles, so they buy one and write about it too, and the process snowballs. There were similar machines by the likes of Pavoni and Ascaso that barely ever got a mention in the forums.

I agree with you that Rancilio have recognised their good fortune, but they've used the, I wouldn't say 'hype', but overexposure to put the price well over what it's worth. At £325 it was a good buy, but not at £400+ in my humble. And then there's the inevitable extra cost the process controller conversion when temperature surfing becomes a ***. I'm out of touch, but the revisions to Silvia haven't been much more than skin deep have they? The fixed 12 bar OPV was replaced by the 10 bar sort-of adjustable, and the steam arm got a ball-joint. Meanwhile the cosmetic changes have moved it back towards Gaggia plasticky territory if anything.

Must say I was under the impression that Silvia and Classic were capable of similar results in the cup, but if you guys have first-hand experience to the contrary I wouldn't argue with that. It all comes down to individual preferences and budget in the end I guess. Some people place a lot of value on the satisfaction of owning a really nicely made, attractive machine, while for others that's not so much of a priority. I don't envy someone choosing between those two today, but think if it was my money, the £126 Classic would win if I was on a budget, while a secondhand HX would be the choice for Silvia money.


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