# Searching for a leak



## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

I woke up this morning to find that my Mitica appears to have a slow leak- it has lost about 300ml over 2 and a half hours.

I have removed the reservoir but the seal on the water release valve appears fine- holding its contents when disengaged.

The machine is only 6 months old but I bought it from elektros so I don't mind breaking the warranty seal.

I am just wondering what the best course is for examining it, or what the most likely component that requires tightening will be.? I am presuming it just needs tightened due to it being new.

Anyway I appreciate its difficult to make suggestions without physically opening it up to see if there is any damage so i am just going to make a start on it now... Wish me luck.


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

On turning it on a very small amount of water came out of this valve, does anyone know if that's normal?

There is no other obvious leak.... And it would correspond with water drips down the boiler onto the inside casing.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

that should hiss and release a tiny amount when coming upto pressure. 300ml is quite some leak . check down the right hand side of the boiler to make sure the OPV hose that goes to the water tank is attached to the opv, Mine would sometimes pop off & now zip tied on) when putting top lid back on make sure hose does not get kinked or it will pop off the opv causing quite a leak


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

That's what I was thinking as it only released a small amount when it was reaching pressure as you said. Now staring at it for 20 minutes no more leaks can be seen. I have looked at the hose going to the water tank as you mentioned and it appears all in order, along the hose and where it connects. I'll leave it on for a few hours and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

is the leak only there after you have brewed?


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

No, I don't believe so. The machine was on yesterday until about 6 pm when I last used it. Then it was off and there was definitely no leak by 10pm. It was then on again this morning at 7.30 and I didn't use it until 10am, at that time I noticed the leak just before I used it and it had part saturated up the side of a wooden chopping board making me believe it had been soaking for sometime .


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

bz99s said:


> No, I don't believe so. The machine was on yesterday until about 6 pm when I last used it. Then it was off and there was definitely no leak by 10pm. It was then on again this morning at 7.30 and I didn't use it until 10am, at that time I noticed the leak just before I used it and it had part saturated up the side of a wooden chopping board making me believe it had been soaking for sometime .


Can you clarify a few points.

1. The valve, you used a very specific expression



> On turning it on a very small amount of water came out of this valve, does anyone know if that's normal?


Did you mean turning on a *cold machine*, water came out of the valve almost immediately or within 1 minute. Did the pump run when the machine was turned on.

2. The chopping board, was this under the machine, beside it and flat on the counter, or standing up on edge near the machine. Are there any pools of water under the machine or in the bottom of the machine case. Put a sheet of paper under the machine at night when it's off....any water marks in the morning?

3. Is your steam wet or dry

4. Pull a shot against a blind filter for 1 minute and inspect the machine....any leaks?

*Taking the case of the machine and 3 photos from each side would be useful*

Take care to be very precise on every little detail as from what you have said it could be any one of a number of faults.


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

With regards to your questions:

1. No the machine was not cold, it had been for a few hours this morning, off for half an hour or so before I took the case off, then turned back on.

2. The chopping board is immediately to the left of the machine and standing vertical- the water had soaked up to about an inch or so ( see pics). I will leave paper under the machine but for the last 2 and bit hours no more leaks have occurred.

There was a small visible drops of water under the boiler on the bottom of the frame. These could have been caused by the valve ontop of the boiler however as the bottom chasis is perforated with lots of holes no water could pool there.

3. Steam is dry.

4.no leaks when using a blind filter.

Also pics are just being uploaded onto flickr to save forum space.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskerhAdw


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

After making another shot and using the steam and hot water wand, I am trying to decide the probability of my wife or cat pressing down on the water wand as being the cause.

I have asked the cat and he just stares blankly, however my wife got her claws out and was very defensive....


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Lol, downside to joysticks! daughter has knocked the water one on when reaching into the cupboards


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

Yes but I do like them. Do you know what's the best way to lubricate them or tighten them?

The steam wand has grown stiff and the water wand is very floppy.... Pardon the pun.


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

Unfortunately it would appear the leak is back but not so bad this time. It would appear my theory of it being the joystick being knocked was incorrect as the machine was off and I didn't realise the wands don't work when it is off.

There is about 100 mls of water this time in two distinct puddles. One to the right hand side of the machine as I look it and the other to the left hand side. It would appear the water drops from underneath the right hand side then forms ontop of the work surface and back underneath the middle making me believe the leak is starting from somewhere on my right. See pics.

Going to take the casing off and see if its any clearer as to where it has started due to the machine being off all day.


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

bz99s said:


> Unfortunately it would appear the leak is back but not so bad this time. It would appear my theory of it being the joystick being knocked was incorrect as the machine was off and I didn't realise the wands don't work when it is off.
> 
> There is about 100 mls of water this time in two distinct puddles. One to the right hand side of the machine as I look it and the other to the left hand side. It would appear the water drops from underneath the right hand side then forms ontop of the work surface and back underneath the middle making me believe the leak is starting from somewhere on my right. See pics.
> 
> Going to take the casing off and see if its any clearer as to where it has started due to the machine being off all day.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Check the fittings in the lower part of the boiler. Water inlet to HX, heating element, and feed to group.

it;s possible water could have collected when machine was on and dripped out when off, but not usually that quantity of water

P.S. It doesn't look as if it's a plumbed machine...I'm correct in thinking it's tanked?


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Check the fittings in the lower part of the boiler. Water inlet to HX, heating element, and feed to group.
> 
> it;s possible water could have collected when machine was on and dripped out when off, but not usually that quantity of water
> 
> P.S. It doesn't look as if it's a plumbed machine...I'm correct in thinking it's tanked?


Yes its a tank model. I have had a good look and I can't seem to see any obvious leaks coming from inside the machine and all of the connections appear dry.

I have noticed the steam arm leaking from where the ball joint and the corresponding large nut it connects to (see PIC). Is it possible for that much water to leak out of the steam arm when cooling down? Just turning he machine on with the case off to see if anything is obviously leaking just now.


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

bz99s said:


> Yes its a tank model. I have had a good look and I can't seem to see any obvious leaks coming from inside the machine and all of the connections appear dry.
> 
> I have noticed the steam arm leaking from where the ball joint and the corresponding large nut it connects to (see PIC). Is it possible for that much water to leak out of the steam arm when cooling down? Just turning he machine on with the case off to see if anything is obviously leaking just now.


It would appear that it's possibly leaking out of the ball joint. I knew it was leaking whilst in use and I am just about to order grease to re sit it. I didn't expect it to leak whilst cooling down and certainly not whilst not in use. Is it possible for the water to leak out of there whilst the machine is cooling?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

bz99s said:


> Yes its a tank model. I have had a good look and I can't seem to see any obvious leaks coming from inside the machine and all of the connections appear dry.
> 
> I have noticed the steam arm leaking from where the ball joint and the corresponding large nut it connects to (see PIC). Is it possible for that much water to leak out of the steam arm when cooling down? Just turning he machine on with the case off to see if anything is obviously leaking just now.


No it's not possible for that much water to come from steam arm or water wand when it's off. For water to leak when the machines cold it can only come from certain places.

1. The water tank and any associated tubes. However the mitica doesn't use a push in tank with a valve on the bottom and the tubes go in the top, so unlikely...unless the water tank itself has a leak, again unlikely.

2. Leaks that happen when hot, but are mostly retained in the case and only noticed when the machine is cold.

3. Any fitting attached to the boiler and below the water line in the boiler (boiler is around 70-75% full of water)

So for me the favourites for a machine leaking when cold is numer three. The ones I mentioned....even the group ones won't leak that much because the bottom feed for the group will be from the bottom of the HX, but the entry into the group is probably above the waterline.

P.S. Normally the steam arm is above the drip tray so leaks drip into there.....of course if your drip tray has a drain facility, perhaps that is leaking?


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> No it's not possible for that much water to come from steam arm or water wand when it's off. For water to leak when the machines cold it can only come from certain places.
> 
> 1. The water tank and any associated tubes. However the mitica doesn't use a push in tank with a valve on the bottom and the tubes go in the top, so unlikely...unless the water tank itself has a leak, again unlikely.
> 
> ...


Ok.

Thanks for the advice. If that's the most likely case then I wonder if the water could have leaked from the pipe going into the pump? This pipe has a metal clip on it however it appears to have slipped off and wasn't securing it at all so I have moved it on top of the plastic tubing. The actual valve where the water tank sits appears bone dry.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Davec, Mitica does have a push in water tank with a return hose going into it via the OPV. Might be worth checking the seal/ washer perhaps!


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## bz99s (May 30, 2012)

glevum said:


> Davec, Mitica does have a push in water tank with a return hose going into it via the OPV. Might be worth checking the seal/ washer perhaps!


Glevum is this the return hose? It doesn't have a clip like the pump inlet but appears secure and hasn't moved.

I have moved the metal clip onto the pump inlet so hope it was just that. I am going to buy some small cable ties and put it over the opv return, the pump inlet and the water tank outlet tomorrow.


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