# Restoring Italian La Pavoni 1980ish



## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Okay so I was impulsive as Ive always wanted one of these machines and picked one up at a decent price on ebay. Being a complete Newby to these machines can anyone point me in the direction of instructions for complete tear down and service. My main question is that this comes with Italian mains lead and plug does anyone know how easy it will be to change over to UK with earth wire. Many Thanks


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)




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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

This model is from the late 1970's and like most pavs, fairly straightforward to refurbish. Here's a thread of the two I did

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/41781-how-to-polish-a-turd/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=598226&embedComment=598226&embedDo=findComment#comment-598226

also check out Francesco's site for all info and he also supplies parts http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/index_eng.htm


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

> 20 hours ago, Tag1260 said:


 Many Thanks, I'll have a good look at this.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> This model is from the late 1970's and like most pavs, fairly straightforward to refurbish. Here's a thread of the two I did
> 
> https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/41781-how-to-polish-a-turd/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=598226&embedComment=598226&embedDo=findComment#comment-598226
> 
> also check out Francesco's site for all info and he also supplies parts http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/index_eng.htm


 Thank You, I'm a complete Newby with these and my knowledge is lacking and this will certainly be helpful. Ive just read the entire thread and don't know wether to be excited or scared haha.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

StevenG91 said:


> Thank You, I'm a complete Newby with these and my knowledge is lacking and this will certainly be helpful. Ive just read the entire thread and don't know wether to be excited or scared haha.


 These where my first attempt and the only difficulty was removing the element but if yours is working and you're not painting the base then you won't need to.

If you're changing the other wires than take a few photos first and copy when swapping. If all is working than maybe just use an adapter for the plug and just descale and change the gaskets.


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)

If it isn't leaking at the bottom and you're NOT painting the base, then all you need to do is change the group head gaskets and move on. Takes, maybe, an hour max. Only thing close to a special tool is a set of snap ring pliers that you can get pretty cheap. No need to be scared. You'll see how simple these things are when you get into it.

Here's a video of the group only rebuild.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> These where my first attempt and the only difficulty was removing the element but if yours is working and you're not painting the base then you won't need to.
> 
> If you're changing the other wires than take a few photos first and copy when swapping. If all is working than maybe just use an adapter for the plug and just descale and change the gaskets.


 Sorry I should have made myself clearer in my post, I'm currently waiting on it arriving from Italy. I just want to try and get a head start on it. I have no idea about the state of it other than from the pictures. I've been assured that it turns on fine. For safety reasons would it be wiser to completely renew the wiring and change to a UK plug with earth wire or if its not broke don't fix it as they say and just get an adapter for the plug. I have no electric experience what so ever and would have no idea where to start with any sort of rewiring (I've even watched the Orphan espresso video on wiring but alas I'm am an electrical idiot). With regards to the element, does this not need to be removed to put a new seal in? I'm assuming this machine hasn't been touched since the 70's. Sorry for all the questions.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

> 13 hours ago, Tag1260 said:
> 
> If it isn't leaking at the bottom and you're NOT painting the base, then all you need to do is change the group head gaskets and move on. Takes, maybe, an hour max. Only thing close to a special tool is a set of snap ring pliers that you can get pretty cheap. No need to be scared. You'll see how simple these things are when you get into it.
> 
> Here's a video of the group only rebuild.


 Thanks for the Video! This is extremely informative. I'm just waiting on my machine arriving and then ill be able to see what state its in.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

StevenG91 said:


> Sorry I should have made myself clearer in my post, I'm currently waiting on it arriving from Italy. I just want to try and get a head start on it. I have no idea about the state of it other than from the pictures. I've been assured that it turns on fine. For safety reasons would it be wiser to completely renew the wiring and change to a UK plug with earth wire or if its not broke don't fix it as they say and just get an adapter for the plug. I have no electric experience what so ever and would have no idea where to start with any sort of rewiring (I've even watched the Orphan espresso video on wiring but alas I'm am an electrical idiot). With regards to the element, does this not need to be removed to put a new seal in? I'm assuming this machine hasn't been touched since the 70's. Sorry for all the questions.


 It could be fine or a mess which you won't know until you get it. If you don't feel comfortable taking on the electrics it might be worth getting someone like Frank at https://www.ferrari-espresso.com/ to service it for you.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> It could be fine or a mess which you won't know until you get it. If you don't feel comfortable taking on the electrics it might be worth getting someone like Frank at https://www.ferrari-espresso.com/ to service it for you.


 Well hopefully it should be here by Tuesday. I'll keep Frank in mind if I decide to get It rewired. I'll post some pictures of the machine when it arrives ?.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> It could be fine or a mess which you won't know until you get it. If you don't feel comfortable taking on the electrics it might be worth getting someone like Frank at https://www.ferrari-espresso.com/ to service it for you.


 Got the machine today dated 1983. Chrome is pitted, water has been leaking underneath the base. Could be In worse shape I suppose. Excuse the photos of my food haha.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

Looks like a good project.

They are very easy to take apart and put back together again.

I managed mine with standard tools.

I didn't really do much of a write up on mine as I'm not very good at documenting stuff, my advice is take lots of photos before you disconnect anything. Mine was a bit easier as my wires were colour coded.


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)

GrowlingDog said:


> Looks like a good project.
> 
> They are very easy to take apart and put back together again.
> 
> ...


 Could I get a picture of your switch?

Thanks


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

My switch is I think the same as yours, 2 separate switches. Top one switches it on, the bottom one switches from 1 element to 2 elements. The only difference is mine has a plastic cover.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

GrowlingDog said:


> Looks like a good project.
> 
> They are very easy to take apart and put back together again.
> 
> ...


 Thanks, I'm debating wether to do it myself or get it serviced and rewired by a pro. Its got an Italian mains cable and the interval wiring was soaking. I believe I could do everything else myself but I have no electrical knowledge and don't want to botch the electrics so I'm in two minds about what to do.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

I would be inclined to get the wiring done by a pro. You could do the rest and then just send it off to get the wiring sorted.

Getting the electrics wrong and mixing it with a metal machine and water seems like a disaster waiting to happen.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

GrowlingDog said:


> I would be inclined to get the wiring done by a pro. You could do the rest and then just send it off to get the wiring sorted.
> 
> Getting the electrics wrong and mixing it with a metal machine and water seems like a disaster waiting to happen.


 My thoughts exactly.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Mines currently in bits as it tripped the electrics 10 days ago & not being able to see what was wrong I had my electrician look at it last night after he fitted new lights for us. Turns out the mains cable was burnt out & I'll get him.to fit the new one.

Gaskets etc are easy to fit but electrics are best left to the experts.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Jacko112 said:


> Mines currently in bits as it tripped the electrics 10 days ago & not being able to see what was wrong I had my electrician look at it last night after he fitted new lights for us. Turns out the mains cable was burnt out & I'll get him.to fit the new one.
> 
> Gaskets etc are easy to fit but electrics are best left to the experts.


 That's exactly my thoughts. I've emailed Frank at Ferrari espresso for a quote for fixing electrics.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Your local electrician should be able to do it.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

Jacko112 said:


> Your local electrician should be able to do it.


 Yes, I agree with that. There is nothing complicated about these for an electrician. It's two switches and two elements.

worth asking a local appliance repair person as it will probably be much cheaper.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

GrowlingDog said:


> Yes, I agree with that. There is nothing complicated about these for an electrician. It's two switches and two elements.
> 
> worth asking a local appliance repair person as it will probably be much cheaper.


 I'll definitely consider doing that.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

The machine looks really good as it's probably totally original. For peace of mind get the electrics done by a professional. Frank at Ferrari is very reasonable but each time you post it there's a risk of damage.

These guys I think are based in Scotland https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk otherwise as the others have suggested ask a local sparky.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

My dealings with theespressoshop have been really positive.

I've only used them for parts but they were really helpful when I couldn't work out which bits I wanted for my machine.

They sent me all the correct size bits really quickly.

With help from this forum and a bit of work and polishing you will end up with something wonderful. I still just want to look at mine and not get it dirty now it's finished. It's worth the effort.

Looking forward to seeing yours when it's finished, can't beat a shiny La Pavoni, even my wife likes mine now.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

What did you guys use to get rid of pitting/rust on the chrome of the machine?


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

I rubbed mine down with wire brush, wire wool, wet and dry etc.. to get a clean surface.

I then coated all bare metal in Loctite Rust converter. 
I then spray painted with plastikote paint. I did a few coats and this does a really good job of smoothing out lumps and bumps. In my case none of the worst rust was really visible anyway, it was either under the drip tray or underneath, so there are a couple of areas underneath that aren't a perfect finish, but they can't be seen.

Edit, sorry just re read your question and it says on the chrome, sorry, I can't help there as my Chrome was in fairly good condition. I did polish it with Goddard silver polish, just because that's what I had as I use it on my silver cornet.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Stupid question but does the La pavoni front badge just pop off, taking it for sandblasting tomorrow.


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)

StevenG91 said:


> Stupid question but does the La pavoni front badge just pop off, taking it for sandblasting tomorrow.


 I had to use some fishing string to cut through the adhesive.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Tag1260 said:


> I had to use some fishing string to cut through the adhesive.


 I'll try and see what I've got lying about


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

My spares have recently also come from espressoshop and were really helpful when I called them. Their site is good as it holds wiring and parts diagrams, which is quite handy for seeing which bit goes where!


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Another stupid question but my heating element says 220volt on it. The switch also says 110-220 volts. Is this the correct element for UK use? I'm so new to this so sorry for silly questions.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Jim sent me this recently when I was ordering a replacement element - https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Element-1000200w-230v---331336/m-2193.aspx

Don't forget to order a replacement "O" ring too.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Jacko112 said:


> Jim sent me this recently when I was ordering a replacement element - https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/La-Pavoni-Lever-Element-1000200w-230v---331336/m-2193.aspx
> 
> Don't forget to order a replacement "O" ring too.


 My element seems okay. It's just it says 220 volts on it. The switch on the pavoni said between 110-220 so I'm just wondering if this is the correct element for the UK.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

This is the element and switch here


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

The element I removed says 230v so I'm guessing that yourd may need replacing


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

StevenG91 said:


> My element seems okay. It's just it says 220 volts on it. The switch on the pavoni said between 110-220 so I'm just wondering if this is the correct element for the UK.


 Yes that's the correct element and switch


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> Yes that's the correct element and switch


 ? Grand, I wasn't sure. All being well should have base sand blasted tomorrow.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

So powder coating today was a no go as I couldn't get the boiler off, damn. Penetrating oil and a 3 leg filter wrench have been ordered. Heating element has been soaked in citric acid twice as it was white with scale (now looking good as new), machine dismantled although I broke the sight glass double damn. New Gaskets ordered along with sight glass and the resoration continues.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

So finally got the base off with three leg oil filter wrench and it's currently at the powder coaters. @GrowlingDog I liked your red base so I've decided to steal it haha. However, I may have inadvertently chipped the chrome on the boiler though ?. Any ideas if these chips will cause me any issues in the future and what I can do about them? They probably seem miniscule but they are annoying me. Unfortunately the chrome has come right off. @GrowlingDog @Nopapercup


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

they wont cause any problems,


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> they wont cause any problems,


 Thanks @jimbojohn55. There more annoying me than anything else. I've followed a couple of your threads and found them quite helpful. I've found taking the LP apart quite cathartic.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Thanks- its quite therapeutic until it goes pear shaped, but even then every thing is fixable - you wont see the chips once its back together ?


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Got it back from the powder coaters overall quite happy with the result. I was looking forward to putting it back together today but alas Ive not got the right size of boiler gasket ?.



jimbojohn55 said:


> Thanks- its quite therapeutic until it goes pear shaped, but even then every thing is fixable - you wont see the chips once its back together ?


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

That's looking excellent. The red does work well. You won't notice the nicks in the chrome and will soon forget about them when you start using it again.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

@jimbojohn55 @Nopapercup so I find myself coming here for help again. So I never noticed this when I tore the LP down but the snap ring is rusted into the group head, there's no where to grab with snap pliers and I have no idea how to get it out. Any ideas?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Tricky, try removing it in bits, some rust killer helps as does a scriber with a bend at one end and some old screwdrivers.

Pavoni started using a stainless version on later models but you have a steel one.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Tricky, try removing it in bits, some rust killer helps as does a scriber with a bend at one end and some old screwdrivers.
> 
> Pavoni started using a stainless version on later models but you have a steel one.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


 Do you think it's possible to dremel it out? I've tried screw drivers etc to no avail. I'm thinking possible dremel but don't want to damage the group.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Tricky as the circlip is harder than the brass that surrounds it

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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> Tricky as the circlip is harder than the brass that surrounds it
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


 I'll see what I can do tomorrow ?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Proceed with caution but you will get there.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

StevenG91 said:


> I'll see what I can do tomorrow ?


 I've tried rust remover, a pick, hammer and screw driver (not got enough of the washer to tap it out without damaging brass), dremmel is a no go. Any other ideas? ? Your right about it being therapeutic until something goes wrong, now im just loosing patience.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

Small taps with a metal bar on the pick if you can get behind it.

Try a bit of wd40 at well

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

What a headache. Worse case you'll have to get a new group


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> What a headache. Worse case you'll have to get a new group


 The price of a new group is too expensive. ? I'll just need to persevere even if it takes me weeks. I've tried all day today to even budge it but no joy.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

StevenG91 said:


> The price of a new group is too expensive. ? I'll just need to persevere even if it takes me weeks. I've tried all day today to even budge it but no joy.


 Yes but you may find a knackered 2nd hand Pav with a decent group but getting that clip out some way would definitely be the preferable solution


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Nopapercup said:


> Yes but you may find a knackered 2nd hand Pav with a decent group but getting that clip out some way would definitely be the preferable solution


 True. I'll persevere for now, I've got it soaking in penetrating oil at the moment.


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)

Plug the hole and fill the recess with oil and let it soak. Not just a little bit. Good thin penetrating oil.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

So I've still not managed to get the circlip out. I've tried everything I can. I'll continue to persevere. If I can't get it out I may have a back up option, I've managed to pick up another 78-83 La Pavoni from Italy for a pretty decent price of £114, which even for parts I think is a pretty good deal. It's battered and bruised but it could be a good project. If I could just get that circlip out I'd have another La Pav to restore.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Okay ?? so I only got the damn thing out ?. A few extremely hard taps with a small metal bar after soaking for over 24 hours. I have slightly damaged the brass but it shouldn't have any impact on the machine. So through my impulsity I also own another La Pav.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

That was a battle! But glad you got there in the end.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> That was a battle! But glad you got there in the end.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk


 It was indeed a battle. ? I got another La Pav out it, so not a bad battle.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

So I tired the old white switch and it shorted the power. I've switched to a new black switch and the power won't come on. Any ideas? @jimbojohn55 @Nopapercup


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

I had to replace the power lead recently when my shorted the power. I got the electrician to fit mine.


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## allikat (Jan 27, 2020)

Could it be a bad heater element?


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

allikat said:


> Could it be a bad heater element?


 The element itself looks pristine, no cracks at all.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Jacko112 said:


> I had to replace the power lead recently when my shorted the power. I got the electrician to fit mine.


 Hmm that's an option. I've got a new lead coming for another La pavoni restoration.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

If anybody is interested this is how she's looking now... Just the electrics to fix.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Did you continuity test the element with a multimeter ?

Apologies if you are already aware of this:

https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Wiring-Diagrams/cc-159.aspx

and

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_schemi_eng.htm


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

here is the wiring from a 83 twin element as in @Batian link

looking at it initialy I would say all seems legit - im wondering if its a switch or a cable issue or even inside the plug !

also check the cable for any nicks or odd bumps particularly where it flexes

also did it work on both elements originally - its quite possible for them to look perfect to the eye but short out inside the coils.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> here is the wiring from a 83 twin element as in @Batian link
> 
> looking at it initialy I would say all seems legit - im wondering if its a switch or a cable issue or even inside the plug !
> 
> ...


 As far as I'm lead to believe it worked on both elements. I've got a multimeter, if anyone fancies leading me through how testing the element etc. The switch is also brand new. I tried the white switch but that tripped the electrics so I switched to new switch but no power.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Have you checked out the wiring diagrams on espresso shop site?


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Jacko112 said:


> Have you checked out the wiring diagrams on espresso shop site?


 The wiring looks spot on, it must be something else. I've got a multimeyet so hopefully with guidance I can test everything.


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## Batian (Oct 23, 2017)

Unplug the machine. Important. Very important. Extremely important.

This link will point you in the right direction.

https://www.wikihow.com/Test-Continuity-with-a-Multimeter


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)

Forgive me if I'm missing something but I don't see a thermal fuse of any kind in there.


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## Tag1260 (Jun 17, 2019)

You could try looking at how the switch wires and try it as a simple on/off wired to each element separately to test the elements. May not be the safest way but it's what those of us who crave adventure might try.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Tag1260 said:


> Forgive me if I'm missing something but I don't see a thermal fuse of any kind in there.


 This year of machine didn't have a thermal fuse.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

Well I've tested the resistance of the element from terminals to the ground and it's jumping all over the place. Soo.... New steel element with completely new wiring and UK plug it is. The restoration continues. Its taking longer than I planned but I just don't have the time I'd like.


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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

So it's been a longer journey than I expected but after a couple of months I've torn down, completely rebuilt and rewired this lovely 1983 Europiccola. I'd like to thank all the members of this forum for the advice and help as without it I wouldn't have managed this. It's maybe not the best restoration job there is but I've put a good bit of work into it and learned a lot along the way. I've had to replace the element, completely renew the wiring and had the base sandblasted and powder coated. At times this has been frustrating but all in all I've had good fun doing this. So thank you to everyone who's helped me along the way ?


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

That looks great, just add a new porter filter handle and jobs a goodun

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## StevenG91 (Dec 7, 2019)

jimbojohn55 said:


> That looks great, just add a new porter filter handle and jobs a goodun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thanks Jim! I've got one on order. I need to order a good tamper to boot.


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

49.5 makes all the difference 

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