# Levelers & no tamp



## GazRef (Dec 30, 2019)

How heavy/light are people going with leveler only?

I have a Jack and tend to set it to mid way, few spins then apply some down pressure followed by a few more spins. Usually get a few mm after the down press so its a light to mid tamped puck.

What techniques do you use?


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## Deeez Nuuutz (Apr 15, 2018)

I use a leveller with a tamp.

Surely if you are spinning the leveller and then pressing down a few mm, you are creating an indentation in the puck from the leveller?

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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Have to agree with deeez. If you're having to apply additional downward pressure you are using it as a tamper, but not a flat one. Even spinning afterwards may not that remove the impact that had had on the lower levels of the Puck.

From where I've read previously and people who do use the leveller as a tamper replacement. They just grind finer. Spin it to level it and then pull the shot.

It's not something I've ever done. I like the leveller followed by tamper process and it works for me so haven't bothered to trial it.

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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I usually use the leveller to tamp very gently and then use the tamper to tamp lightly as the leveller is some cheapo chines one that doesn't really get to the very edges of the basket like the 58.55 torr one does.


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## GazRef (Dec 30, 2019)

interesting. There's no surface marks at the depth i have it, after the down force, but that's not to say nothings going on at the lower levels. Had no issues (changeling or spritzing) so far and the puck comes out in one.

At the depth i have it just the weight of the leveler and the spinning still leaves that last few mm before the levler is sat flush on the basket which is why i press down. Plus it is only light otherwise i found the surface of the puck easy to indent. I could reduce the leveler by a few mm and grind finer.

First became aware of the jack in a video where a guy was pimping out baskets, screens and gaskets. Around the 3 min mark and again later in the video.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

As I was researching a new machine I saw a video of someone levelling then tamping and said to myself "that's over the top madness, I'll never do that".

Then I saw the Whole Latte Love video where Marco plugs the leveller. At the same time I started playing attention to my pucks, which revealed frequent channelling.

So, I got a leveller off eBay and stopped using the tamper. I got good results but felt uncomfortable that there was no consistency in the pressure - dependent on trial and error + luck to compress the puck sufficiently.

Then I went to tamper only, but wasn't confident in my ability to get the puck level consistently.

Now I do a light tamp, just enough to get the surface level and follow it with a full tamp. I feel like this is the best of both worlds.

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## GazRef (Dec 30, 2019)

Since this post I've been experimenting. Recipe is the same for both shots at 20g/41-42g out in 27-28 seconds. Coffee is 7 days past roast in the medium depth vid and 12-14 days in the low depth video. Only difference is leveler technique & depth.

Medium depth I give it a few spins just under the weight of the jack. That then leaves a few mm of the jack raised above sitting flush on the basket. I ever so gently push down and spin more so the jack is flush with the basket. Leaves a firmer flat puck. I'd consider this a medium tamp at best and the jack is at mid depth.

https://streamable.com/737lg

After making this post i adjust the jack leveler to a lower depth setting so that a few spins under its own weight the jack was flush to the basket. In order to get the same output time I grinded finer. Difference is very noticeable with much more crema. However I preferred the taste of the first shot at the coarser grind as the second wasnt as pleasant. Made the video before the scheduled back flush clean so could attribute the darker taste to that.

https://streamable.com/cttn1

Any tips tricks or feedback going forward. All suggestions welcome.


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

I just use a cheapo chinese wedge shape leveller to get a level playing field to tamp on. The issue is that unless the coffee underneath is already devoid of any pockets you are unlikely to see much benefit from a leveller. I mainly use mine to get a flat, square bed to tamp on. Having any sort of indentation left by the leveller seems like a bad thing but honestly I have never had that issue with the wedge shape. Even if I level and set it really low so it tamps quite a lot it never leaves any sort of mark on the puck.

I reckon that the best thing will ultimately be something like the vibration tool @DavecUK has along with a leveller and just leave it at that. You should have a well distributed bed of coffee without any pockets in it that way.


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## 17845 (Jan 10, 2018)

I use a Jack,

Spin, push and spin again - no marks, no need to tamp, perfect puck and extraction via a bottomless portafilter.

I also became interested in the Jack via the Whole Latte Love video.

Is it worth the asking price ? thats a matter of opinion - mine is, you cant take it with you and I like toys......


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Funnily enough I've been using the leveller and tamping, though the tamp I don't think does anything. I've modified my leveller so that I can screw it down into the coffee. It was easy to do this, I just filled the top piece with pennies so the threads just catch on the piston bit...

Today my shot ran much much faster when I only screwed down halfway. I tried a massive gorilla tamp but the coffee didn't budge. Extraction was fine, came through evenly in 26 seconds but at the same grind setting when using the distributor and screwing it down all the way the shot would have taken about 40 seconds.

By screwing down into the coffee It must be effectively tamping with massive force or just compacting the grinds outwards and down rather than just down....

Shot have been good with it used in both ways anyway.


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## brewslew (Aug 8, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> Funnily enough I've been using the leveller and tamping, though the tamp I don't think does anything. I've modified my leveller so that I can screw it down into the coffee. It was easy to do this, I just filled the top piece with pennies so the threads just catch on the piston bit...
> 
> Today my shot ran much much faster when I only screwed down halfway. I tried a massive gorilla tamp but the coffee didn't budge. Extraction was fine, came through evenly in 26 seconds but at the same grind setting when using the distributor and screwing it down all the way the shot would have taken about 40 seconds.
> 
> ...


 that's interesting I might try setting my leveller at its lowest setting next shot I pull


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> Funnily enough I've been using the leveller and tamping, though the tamp I don't think does anything. I've modified my leveller so that I can screw it down into the coffee. It was easy to do this, I just filled the top piece with pennies so the threads just catch on the piston bit...
> Today my shot ran much much faster when I only screwed down halfway. I tried a massive gorilla tamp but the coffee didn't budge. Extraction was fine, came through evenly in 26 seconds but at the same grind setting when using the distributor and screwing it down all the way the shot would have taken about 40 seconds.
> By screwing down into the coffee It must be effectively tamping with massive force or just compacting the grinds outwards and down rather than just down....
> Shot have been good with it used in both ways anyway.


Do you screw it down the same every time?

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## Zeak (Jun 12, 2017)

I'm also interested in improving my pucks. Leveller seems like a novelty but also seems to work. Having said that I'm keen to try, but not keen to spend £100 for Jack. eBay/Amazon obviously have tons of Chinese knock-offs and I'm just wondering if there's a decent substitute among them? It has to be pretty hefty for starters, right? Does the amount of wedges/ridges make any difference (Jack has 4 sharpish ones, others mostly 3 tapered). Or is it still quite speculative at the moment?


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Planter said:


> Do you screw it down the same every time?
> 
> Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk


 Didn't get any notifications for these replies, sorry.

I tend to screw it down all the way every time but I tried a couple of shots screwed down until the resistance built up and just finished by spinning until the puck was level. I have a wedge type distributor and it can leave a triangular wedge shape in the puck that can be levelled out by spinning anticlockwise after clockwise or vice versa. I tend to just screw all the way down for consistency but the shots when stopping based on feeling resistance were fine.



brewslew said:


> that's interesting I might try setting my leveller at its lowest setting next shot I pull


 Bear in mind the bed is always level with no indentations left from the distributor when I've finished.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Zeak said:


> I'm also interested in improving my pucks. Leveller seems like a novelty but also seems to work. Having said that I'm keen to try, but not keen to spend £100 for Jack. eBay/Amazon obviously have tons of Chinese knock-offs and I'm just wondering if there's a decent substitute among them? It has to be pretty hefty for starters, right? Does the amount of wedges/ridges make any difference (Jack has 4 sharpish ones, others mostly 3 tapered). Or is it still quite speculative at the moment?


 I chose a wedge type one from amazon "Scarlet Espresso". You can get the same thing on ebay cheaper I think.

If I were going for a multi-prong option I'd go for one with deep wedges rather than shallow.

It's not really conclusive that they help, testing typically shows a lower EY with a distributor than without, though those tests were conducted using an OCD and BT Wedge at a set depth. Mine seems to slow the pour down but it's central regardless.


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## EvanB (Feb 23, 2020)

I use a Jack leveler and also tamp, but I do seem to get much better results with the leveler alone. However, I'm using the stock pressure on my machine and it's way too high.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

EvanB said:


> I use a Jack leveler and also tamp, but I do seem to get much better results with the leveler alone. However, I'm using the stock pressure on my machine and it's way too high.


Keep using the leveller on its own then if you prefer the output, no need to tamp. 

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## EvanB (Feb 23, 2020)

Planter said:


> Keep using the leveller on its own then if you prefer the output, no need to tamp.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Will do!


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

EvanB said:


> Will do!


Could possibly be a tamp technique issue. I was getting channeling when tamping but watched a few tutorials and now haven't had any bad channeling for weeks.

But, just go by what tastes good not what you think you should be doing.


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