# At the risk of causing a storm ....



## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi everyone,

this is my first post on here and may appear a little strange on a forum for coffee lovers. Please be gentle with me....

I've owned a Gaggia Classic for about a year and love the coffee that it produces. My wife thought it would be a white elephant. She said that she would never drink coffee from it because the high street stuff would be far superior. She tried it once and is almost as hooked as I am.

Our choice of coffee has always been illy ground espresso. We haven't seen a need to try anything else on account of the fact that we like it.

Anyway, for Christmas, and having seen what we have, my sister in law bought be a bag of coffee beans. Clearly, she didn't appreciate that I don't have a grinder. I could plant those beans and see if a bean stalk grows or I could do nothing with them or I could buy a grinder....

So, I started looking and quickly realised that anything less than a burr grinder wasn't going to be any good for espresso. Even with that in mind, I would be looking at a cost of between 100 and 150 pounds for something of a reasonable baseline - Iberital MC2 or similar.

My (our) coffee habits are typically a double shot each per day - seldom espresso alone and often turned into a cappuccino for each of us. The taste is far nicer than the high street and, having practised a lot, I think I can do them pretty well, even on a Gaggia with a single boiler.

So, do you think that there is a world out there which will justify the outlay of a decent enough grinder? I have to be sensitive to price within reason and it would be nice to think that, over a time, I may recover some of my outlay through cheaper but as good or better quality coffee than illy ground. How does illy ground compare with beans bought from the places that you normally frequent?

At the rate that we get through coffee, will the beans loose their freshness unless I buy very small quantities at a time and pretend not to notice the cost of postage?

Any other thoughts, suggestions, pointers, etc. would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Ian


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Hi Ian,

In short, Yes.

Everyone's tastes are different but I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the increase in flavour if you switch to grinding fresh and buying fresh ground beans. Just take a look at Has Bean, Londinium, Union or any of the other suppliers in the beans forum to see what a huge variety of beans are available. Grinding freshly really does give you a much nicer cup and gives you access too all these different coffees.

You didn't mention if you are using the plastic tamper that came with your machine or not but if you are I would also recommend investing in a metal one (it doesn't have to be expensive,£15-20 will do nicely) and then you are all set for many years of happy coffee making.

Some people prefer the taste of illy as a more traditional roast, but I love trying different beans and tasting how different they can be and personally think anything freshly roasted is far superior to illy. I only drink a couple of drinks a day, with my usual roaster (Has Bean) the postage costs are quite low so I find ordering 750g at one time lasts me about 3-4 weeks, then order again. I find beans are past their best after about 4 weeks, and if I bought more in less regular intervals id only save a couple of pound in postage per order. It's worth it to drink fresh.

If the cost if the MC2 seems a bit too much for you keep an eye on the forums here for a second hand deal, i've seen a few good ones come up recently. There is also the hand grinder route as well, a Porlex being about £30 with some saying the extra work grinding makes the coffee even nicer


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## alisingh (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi. Sorry I can't be much help, except to "sympathise". I'm in the same position as you - have had a coffee machine for a couple of years, and now decided to get a grinder - There has been lots of good advice on this forum, and I 've red lots of reviews. I think I have narrowed by choice to Iberital MC2 or Eurika Mignon (which is a bit more expensive)..I had no idea there was so much to know about coffee or coffee grinders. Very difficult to choose!!! Let me know what you decide on.

Alison


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Glad I'm not alone Alison!

The Iberital is probably the front runner and, as aaronb mentioned, I have thought about the hand ground version. If I am honest though, I suspect that if I took the plunge, I would go for something with a motor.

And, to answer your question aaronb, I do have a heavy quality metal tamper.... the plastic offering with the Gaggia being something of a comedy item! Which Has bean roast would you suggest is close but slightly different to the illy? (there may be several). I would like to read a little about them. The range, at the moment at least, seems particularly bewildering!

Thanks again,

Ian


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## Big Tony (Dec 18, 2012)

Have you considered just buying a porlex hand grinder? It'll give you a flavour for whether you prefer freshly ground. I've just bought one for £30 delivered and think its really good. Even if you decided to sell it, you'd recoup a good amount of money back. Just a thought


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## aphelion (Nov 23, 2012)

series530 said:


> Glad I'm not alone Alison!
> 
> The Iberital is probably the front runner and, as aaronb mentioned, I have thought about the hand ground version. If I am honest though, I suspect that if I took the plunge, I would go for something with a motor.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum Ian

Firstly, I would agree (with aaronb) that freshly ground coffee is the only way to go for espresso - ground coffee starts to lose its freshness literally within minutes.

The problem with supermarket bought ground coffee is you never know when it was ground...unfortunately ground Illy is no exception

So you'd need either a hand grinder (porlex, hario etc.) or a cheap decent burr grinder (MC2, Rocky etc) to grind your own.

I have owned an MC2, and its a great grinder (I sold it last week for £80) - perfect companion for a classic.

In terms of italian style coffee beans, I would not recommend Hasbean as a place to start (although Blake Blend is pretty close).

They tend to roast very light, so you are going to get lots of acidity, citrus, stuff like that..certainly not Illy

Hasbean are excellent however!

If you are looking for a darker style roast, i'd recommend the following:-

- Union Roasted - Revelation Blend

- James Gourmet - Formula 6

- Hands On - Lusty Glaze

- Extract - Original Espresso

- Hasbean - Blake Blend

Any of the above would be a great starting point!

Hope that is some help for you anyway

Regards

Andy


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## CoffeeDoc (Dec 26, 2012)

Having just set out on the quest for better coffee, I have invested in the Has Bean Starter pack, I can highly recommend it as a way to try different coffees without hideous expense.

Paul


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Yeah a Has Bean starter pack is interesting, its a lot lighter than illy but then you know whats out there. I don't really buy blends and tend to drink single origins, the coichera from Has Bean is amazing.

I would suggest picking up a bag or 2 from a few of the roasters recommended on the site and seeing what you like.


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## mookielagoo (Dec 12, 2012)

series530 said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> this is my first post on here and may appear a little strange on a forum for coffee lovers. Please be gentle with me....
> 
> ...


Hi Ian,

I pondered on this recently after I sent back my delonghi icona pressurised espresso machine after only 6 months of use and only using preground stuff (now using a Classic)...I made a conscious decision to start grinding my own beans and to justify the spend of an Iberital I came up with following conclusion that;

a) Ive enjoyed fresh coffee every day for the past 10 years (french press) and it's become a ritualistic part of starting my day , everyday...

b) The experience that the Delonghi has given me in taste (using preground) over the last 6 months has started my love for coffee.

c) The smell of ground beans that the Iberital produces every morning is utterly gorgeous, it fills my house and finally.....

d) I figured that if i spend £50 quid on a hand grinder or lessor device then I would end up spending more in the end on upgrading the blimmin thing!! I looked at lots of reviews and found that the MC2 is the most consistent espresso grinder (for the price!)...Cheers...Mark


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## suferick (Jul 19, 2011)

In terms of freshness, the beans will last 3-4 weeks (but you would probably have to adjust the fineness of the grind as they age). So 2 doubles a day (say 16g minimum each) will mean that a 250g bag will last only a week or so. At that rate you could buy 2 or 3 different coffees at a time and alternate, which is what I often do. One good thing about roasters like HasBean is that they put the roast date on the bag, so that you will always know when you need to use a batch of beans up.

A Porlex is amazingly good value for money, but may not be able to fit 2 doubles' worth of beans at a time, resulting in 2 longish (c. 2 minutes) turns at the handle. Worth it at the end, though.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Welcome to Coffee Forums UK Ian

It looks like you've posted some good questions judging by the number of responses so far.

Plenty of food for thought now...


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks everyone, your help and suggestions have been much appreciated. I am convinced now (not that I needed much to convince me in the first place!).

I can never come up with good ideas for presents for my birthday so I have agreed with my wife that I can have a grinder. It's timed pretty nicely as the big day is only a week or so away.

We dropped in to Waitrose this morning and bought the cheapest beans that they offer and will use these as a vehicle for setting up the machine. The beans say "best before December 2013". They come in a foil wrap .... how can they possibly stay fresh for that long? I can only assume that they are the typical supermarket fare that has been mentioned on this thread and are not up to much (aside from setting up a grinder)... or am I still missing something?

so, all I have to do is choose the electrical machine now and buy some "proper" coffee for it.









I suspect that more questions will flow in the coming days.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Your not missing anything, december 2013 is probably the point that they get so stale they break the grinder you put them in


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Alison,

in your reply to me the other day you indicated that you probably wouldn't be much help.... you actually have been.... more than you can imagine:

your suggestion of the Eurika Mignon is pretty inspired. Agreed, not the cheapest offering out there but such a beautiful machine all the same.

We remodelled our kitchen a few years ago and have black granite work tops. I think that the gloss black version will go rather nicely in there.

For everyone,

I have my wife's approval to order it for my birthday !!!

... sorry, this is all getting a bit scatter gun in terms of questioning :

Is it worth the extra compared to something like the Iberital or a Rocky?

Would I be correct in assuming that the doserless version is the one to go for?

Is gloss black a silly choice of colour or should I hold out for the chrome one (or something else)?

Has anybody found any major issues with this unit in terms of design/capability/reliability?

Presumably, Bella Barista is the place to approach come purchase time?

kind regards


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## kklam (Jan 4, 2013)

Big Tony said:


> Have you considered just buying a porlex hand grinder? It'll give you a flavour for whether you prefer freshly ground. I've just bought one for £30 delivered and think its really good. Even if you decided to sell it, you'd recoup a good amount of money back. Just a thought


Can i ask where u bought the porlex grinder?

Thanks


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## alisingh (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi, Ian.

I'm still pondering. Having another look at the Mahlkonig Vario - put off by the review on Bella Barista, but other reviews seem to like it, and I think they may have tweaked it a bit since. - a bit plasticky though? I like the fact that you waste so little coffee from it, as it seems to retain so little, and I would only use it once a day, if that. I want something to last, though. This forum is very informative, but (like me to you now) you think you've made up your mind and someone suggests something else!!! I still think I might go for the Eureka.

If you do get the Eureka fairly soon, let me know what you think of it. I'll keep an eye on this thread.

Alison


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## CheekyB (Oct 21, 2012)

alisingh said:


> Hi, Ian.
> 
> I'm still pondering. Having another look at the Mahlkonig Vario - put off by the review on Bella Barista, but other reviews seem to like it, and I think they may have tweaked it a bit since. - a bit plasticky though? I like the fact that you waste so little coffee from it, as it seems to retain so little, and I would only use it once a day, if that. I want something to last, though. This forum is very informative, but (like me to you now) you think you've made up your mind and someone suggests something else!!! I still think I might go for the Eureka.
> 
> ...


I've pondered between the two as well. In favour for the Mignon is it's price, being about £70-80 cheaper, and it's grind quality being arguably the same as the Vario's - and, it is smaller, taking up less worktop space. Yes the Vario may be a bit plasticky, but the ability to go straight back to previous settings is a plus. I would have slightly leant towards the Mignon with all that in mind, but what finally sways it is that replacement burrs for the Mignon are about £18 from Bella Barista - the only ones (ceramic) I can find for the Vario are at Coffee Hit and cost £84.


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## alisingh (Dec 31, 2012)

CheekyB said:


> I've pondered between the two as well. In favour for the Mignon is it's price, being about £70-80 cheaper, and it's grind quality being arguably the same as the Vario's - and, it is smaller, taking up less worktop space. Yes the Vario may be a bit plasticky, but the ability to go straight back to previous settings is a plus. I would have slightly leant towards the Mignon with all that in mind, but what finally sways it is that replacement burrs for the Mignon are about £18 from Bella Barista - the only ones (ceramic) I can find for the Vario are at Coffee Hit and cost £84.


decisions, decisions. !!!














I think I agree (until I read something else)


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

alisingh said:


> decisions, decisions. !!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perhaps I'll buy a teapot and a tea strainer instead .... Should be slightly easier to choose


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## reneb (Nov 2, 2011)

Buy the mignon, you won't regret. It should last a lifetime as it's built like a tank and it looks great in gloss black. I can highly recommend Bella Barista.


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## Big Tony (Dec 18, 2012)

kklam said:


> Can i ask where u bought the porlex grinder?
> 
> Thanks


Galla coffee. They were doing free delivery over the festive period


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Today I bought myself a Eureka Mignon coffee grinder. It's a gloss black one and should arrive tomorrow.

As it's a birthday present my wife asked if she should take it away immediately and wrap it ready for next week. I declined to answer!

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. Claudette was also very helpful today and I learned a lot about my Gaggia Classic as well as the Eureka.

I just need to buy some coffee now so as to properly try it out.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Make sure you pick up some crappy beans from the supermarket to get the grind right!


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> Make sure you pick up some crappy beans from the supermarket to get the grind right!


Already have


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Haha, forward thinking! What beans are you going with? I'm on some Colombia Huila Pitalito Oporapa from Hasbean at the mo and they are amazing, gorgeous flavour in both espresso and long drinks!


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## Pdalowsky (Dec 31, 2012)

interested to see how this goes Ian

please update here with what you think of it.

my birthday is feb 22nd and i want a grinder too....was thinking the MC2 but now youve got me wondering.

also a fan of Illy and also just daring to enter the world of grinding my own!!


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## Pdalowsky (Dec 31, 2012)

out of interest where did you buy the grinder?


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Pdalowsky said:


> out of interest where did you buy the grinder?


Bella Barista.


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## alisingh (Dec 31, 2012)

Hi

Have you got it yet? and what do you think?

Alison


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi Alison,

I had to chuckle to myself when I read your message....

Having received the unit last Friday and some coffee from Union Roasted on Saturday I was really itching to open the box and try it. I didn't because my wife decided to hide it away until my birthday.

So, this morning, at 6.15am I opened the box and decided to wait until this evening. As I work from home it would have been really easy to have had a play this morning and then not done any work. So, I was a really good "bunny" and I waited until 5.30 this evening....

First impressions are that it is a thing of beauty. Small, very solid, beautifully built and looks great on our granite worktops. The instructions tell me all about the safety aspects of it (including not using it with bare feet ... perhaps they think that me stuffing my slippers into the hopper is safer than my big toe) and very little about actually using it. Anyway, I have some cheap Waitrose beans and I put them into the hopper and had a play. It's actually pretty quiet in operation; far quieter than I had expected. It does clump the coffee pretty badly but, in all honesty, its not an issue. I guess a double portafilter basket grind takes about 15 or 20 seconds and a fairly solid push against the micro switch to keep the coffee coming out. The coffee doesn't scatter all over the worktop. It's nice and controlled in delivery from the chute.

I am no expert, no expert at all, but it didn't take me long to get a grind which was somewhere between caster sugar and flour (that's what Claudette told me to do at Bella Barista). With a hefty tamp that gave me about 2 oz in 25 seconds or so. The coffee was pretty strong but a far better crema than I have ever got from the illy ground. My head is still spinning from from the various samples that I have tried as I have dialed in the grind (luckily a gin and tonic is nulling my fluffy head as I type this).

The grind wheel is a beautiful aluminium affair. It feels very solid and doesn't feel like it has play or slop.

Tomorrow I will try some Union Roasted as part of a cappuccino (my preferred choice of drink) and we'll see for sure. I have also ordered a steam wand for my Gaggia as the fluff generator is now driving me nuts.

We've also agreed with Glenn to have some proper tuition. I'm very much looking forward to this as I suspect that my way of making coffee is not the same as everyone elses.

So far, I am very impressed with the Eureka. Solid and beautiful and great looking in the kitchen (unlike me!).


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## Pdalowsky (Dec 31, 2012)

nice to hear Ian, im thinking of buying this too....

but wondering if i need the gloss one or the matt one...

was your gloss one quite dull too as its been reported and not crazy shiny?


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## series530 (Jan 4, 2013)

I had also read that the gloss black version was quite dull. TBH, I was pleasantly surprised by what I received: OK, it isn't piano black and gleaming but it does has a nice understated gloss look which I find very acceptable.

This photograph would be a very fair reflection of what it looks like:

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-grinders/coffee-grinders/eureka-mignon-instantaneo-grinder-auto-manual-gloss-black.html


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