# Why is a flat white so expensive?



## Rscut (Aug 13, 2016)

This is a relative question. Most people refer to a flat white as a double shot (ristretto) with 5oz of microfoam. So, why is it more expensive than a latte that generally has a double shot with 8/10pz of microfoam? I personally prefer a flat white (if it's made correct), however consider it to be quite a fashion drink.

Opinions greatly appreciated!


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

I guess it is relative to where you go


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Rscut said:


> This is a relative question. Most people refer to a flat white as a double shot (ristretto) with 5oz of microfoam. So, why is it more expensive than a latte that generally has a double shot with 8/10pz of microfoam? I personally prefer a flat white (if it's made correct), however consider it to be quite a fashion drink.
> 
> Opinions greatly appreciated!


Depends where you go but they are not always more expensive and a Latte doesn't always have a double shot.


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## Rscut (Aug 13, 2016)

I mean why are they the most expensive drink out of a cap, latte and a flat white.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Rscut said:


> I mean why are they the most expensive drink out of a cap, latte and a flat white.


Not in my experience ...

But the hipster factor adds at least 30p to a drink


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Generally they're not from the cafes that I've been to. but I have noticed that the cafe that's on our business park charges more for a flat white. (Coffee is crap).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

urbanbumpkin said:


> Generally they're not from the cafes that I've been to. but I have noticed that the cafe that's on our business park charges more. (Coffee is crap).


You don't have a beard though


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> You don't have a beard though


The lady that serves them does though


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Rscut said:


> I mean why are they the most expensive drink out of a cap, latte and a flat white.


Only us northerners drink out of a cap.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Very often "Flatwhite" is the same price as a "Latte" and "Cappo".....

Almost equally often....

"Flatwhite" is indistinguishable from "Cappo" - in that it is just milk chucked on top of espresso/coffee in a bucket...

and only distinguished from "Latte" because Latte is in a glass......

... but that is possibly a little cynical!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

To add my tuppennorth, I have also noticed that flat whites are often at least as expensive as caffè latte if not more so (in some cafes I've visited) and I've wondered the same thing. I have to say I think that where it's true (for it isn't always) it actually is a fashion tax. I mean, they're not more expensive to make, in time or ingredients, but often command a premium. However, whilst I've puzzled over it, I accept it on the basis that whichever drink tastes nicest to you is the one that's worth the most. Although as most places seem to do the same thing with the milk steaming anyway these days, and my go to drink is usually a cappuccino (no chocolate sprinkles!) it doesn't really affect me very often.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Anywhere that takes their costings seriously *should* be charging more for a bigger milk drink than a smaller one.


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Scotford said:


> Anywhere that takes their costings seriously shouldn't be charging more for a bigger milk drink than a smaller one.


Why so? I'm intrigued!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I suppose because a few Oz of milk don't make much difference in the scheme of things compared to amortisation of the fixed cost (machine, grinder, shop, wages, light heat etc). Much as a single spro is often £2 and a double £2.20 I guess. Although I would still expect a latte to be 20p or whatever *more* than a flat white rather than the reverse. Curious.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Here's a very quick working out based on memory from the last time I costed up a menu:

your espresso costs 19p a shot and milk costs 15p per 200ml dose for a flat white. You then add in a small cost (based on %age of takeaway trade) for disposable cup, lid and (if you are being as thorough as I like to be) sugar (and/or anything that can add to a base cost of product). Ill use 5p as an example.

You then have a drink that should cost at minimum £2.50 so you are making a GP of 80%, which other operational costs are then taken from.

Now, if you then push the cost price up to 43p for a latte, you need to then price it higher on a menu to reflect that rise in base price.

The problem then comes with the 'do you price every drink differently on a menu?' question. Not in my eyes. I tend to swing towards a base cost for each cup size and add (where necessary) any extras added to a base cost per different cup size.

Here's an old (very basic) template I drew up based on a 6oz cap, 8.5oz latte and a 4oz piccolo:










I will add that in this pic, the base cost of a latte and cap were different but the person in charge there was a real pain in the arse to deal with there and only wanted to see GP above 82% (based on what, I have no idea) and couldn't grasp the 3 or 4 tier pricing structure.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

That should be Cappuc*c*ino


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> That should be Cappuc*c*ino


Haha, well spotted! I hadn't even noticed. I must just get a bit too into my numbergeekery!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Scotford said:


> Anywhere that takes their costings seriously shouldn't be charging more for a bigger milk drink than a smaller one.


EH? according to your costings sheet - you charge less for a piccolo...


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Drewster said:


> EH? according to your costings sheet - you charge less for a piccolo...


Oh ffs I am really not on form today. Error noted and corrected...


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## Beanosaurus (Jun 4, 2014)

Commercial buzzwordery... The 'Flat White' has been out for a few years now and not only much cheaper in any independent coffeeshop but I've yet to come across a shop that doesn't charge for milk volume in a linear fashion.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Beanosaurus said:


> Commercial buzzwordery... The 'Flat White' has been out for a few years now and not only much cheaper in any independent coffeeshop but I've yet to come across a shop that doesn't charge for milk volume in a linear fashion.


I'd say:

Some do - Charge more for drinks with more milk (I wouldn't say linear but certainly more)

Some don't - Espresso = X : Espresso + milk = X+Y (Whatever milk) - Although these wouldn't recognise a Piccolo/Cortado/FlatWt anyway)

Some mix - Espresso = X : Latte & Cappo = X+Y : Piccolo/Cortado = X+Z : FlatWt= X+Q (Y != Z != Q)


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Scotford said:


> Oh ffs I am really not on form today. Error noted and corrected...


Right. Good! My earlier question is now irrelevant!


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