# Sage DTP or Lelit PL41TEM



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Lakeland have the Sage machine at £240, but I am a bit smitten by the Lelit 'Anna' with PID at £410 from The Coffee Mate. Is the Lelit worth the extra or is the Sage a steal at that price? (Upgrading from a Delonghi 155, but I have my Santos no. 4 grinder which I hope is more than up to the job for the Sage or the Lelit)


----------



## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

pgarrish said:


> Lakeland have the Sage machine at £240, but I am a bit smitten by the Lelit 'Anna' with PID at £410 from The Coffee Mate. Is the Lelit worth the extra or is the Sage a steal at that price? (Upgrading from a Delonghi 155, but I have my Santos no. 4 grinder which I hope is more than up to the job for the Sage or the Lelit)


Well the Anna has a manometer and adjustable PID, which the Sage does not. These are good "premium" features to have.

However, it has a small 250ml copper boiler, so if you drink a lot of milk based drinks I can imagine switching between brew and steam pressure will be a pain, I'd also doubt the steam power because of that.


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I agree - was looking at those last year - it looks like a lot of machine for that money.

Never used the Lelit, and they obviously don't yet have the popularity in UK as Sage but understand they are more widely used across the pond.

If you don't need to save money for the grinder, I'd go for the lelit - PID, solenoid, proper boiler - all things that the Sage doesn't have.

Says it has a 57mm basket tho, which is also an odd size if correct - surprised this isn't a 58mm - but the Sage also has an unusual basket size.


----------



## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

As a lelit user I can say they make great machines which in turn make great coffee.

Our resident reviewer recently reviewed the Lelit Mara favourably too.

The 57mm pf frustrates me as you will struggle to get baskets distribution tools and pf.

That said I think @joey24dirt is taking commisions for lathe work.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

My choice is obvious 

It will be interesting to see which way you go with this though.


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Cheers

me and the boss tend to drink latte or cortado (at the moment, its one of each as the jug is only just the right size for that). We split a double shot between us so it's one coffee then one steam run. If the DeLonghi can cope with that I'd assume either of the two above could as well. That said, I did 3 back-to-back runs (double shot, milk, double shot, milk, double shot, milk) with the Delonghi and that went OK too.

I fancy buying new this time, I always buy used and whilst it's good value, I'd like a new machine for once. Anything else around £400 worth a look? Are the Rancilio Silvia or Gaggia Classic as good /better than the DTP or Lelit? They aren't as pretty


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I had a classic alongside my DTP and preferred the DTP for speed of use, as in warm up time.

The classic steam power was better but that had been modified.

I'd say if you aren't really bothered about adjusting temps then go for the DTP. Saves you a bit of money to buy accessories also.

I can't comment on the lelit as I've never used one. It does look a good machine though.

Apologies if I seem short I'm giving the kids breakfast at the same time haha


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

If you are inclined to tinker and aspire to modify the machine, then a used classic or a Silvia would suit you - both have many aftermarket improvements that can be made, which I would expect to at least match if not better the stock Lelit, and would definitely outclass the Sage. That route should cost a nudge less than the Lelit but you would have a used machine.


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

No tinkering planned, I fancy buying, unwrapping and enjoying 

I want something straightforward we can both use with minimal fuss. The Lelit appeals as it's neat and tidy, not too fussy but not industrial (my Santos does the industrial bit )


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

rob177palmer said:


> If you are inclined to tinker and aspire to modify the machine, then a used classic or a Silvia would suit you - both have many aftermarket improvements that can be made, which I would expect to at least match if not better the stock Lelit, and would definitely outclass the Sage. That route should cost a nudge less than the Lelit but you would have a used machine.


I'm really not sure a modfied Classic or Silvia really do outclass the Sage. Maybe in build quality, but both the Classic and Silvia have gone downhill over the last few years in this dept.

Unless you want something specific out of the Classic or Silvia, the mods people do to them basically being then up to the same level as the DTP, which more effectively controls its brew temperature out of the box.


----------



## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

pgarrish said:


> No tinkering planned, I fancy buying, unwrapping and enjoying
> 
> I want something straightforward we can both use with minimal fuss. The Lelit appeals as it's neat and tidy, not too fussy but not industrial (my Santos does the industrial bit )


Sounds like this is an academic question and you're set on the Lelit already to me?


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

You may well be right but I didn't want to write off the sage if it was a better choice


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

The sage is great, and convenient, but I have no experience with the other one so can't really compare.

What are the thoughts of the Lelit users?

Buy both then send one back


----------



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Dylan said:


> I'm really not sure a modfied Classic or Silvia really do outclass the Sage. Maybe in build quality, but both the Classic and Silvia have gone downhill over the last few years in this dept.


Agreed on latter "improvements". He would have to be buying used to get a better quality example, which doesn't seem to be the aim here.

My take is some of the key additional features of the Lelit over the Sage seem to be a beneficial improvement.

In particular, a PID will give flexibility to adjust the taste of a shot and avoid any need to temp surf - from my experience it also means one less thing to consider when juggling the various factors that go into making a great shot.


----------



## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Afaik the DTP has a method of electronic heat control, its thermoblock driven but if you can manage that properly the heat stability shouldnt be worse than a small boiler machine. From feedback it seems to do a food job, but it would be interesting to see it properly measured.


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Dylan said:


> Afaik the DTP has a method of electronic heat control, its thermoblock driven but if you can manage that properly the heat stability shouldnt be worse than a small boiler machine. From feedback it seems to do a food job, but it would be interesting to see it properly measured.


It's on my list of projects lol 

The PID in the DTP is fixed to 93 degrees I think. No adjustment in that but a PID nonetheless. Fast warm time suits my needs perfect

Out of interest. OP have you done much YouTube research? I've found that's a great way to get a feel for a machine before buying.


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

I've had a look at the lelit on YouTube, haven't looked for the dtp yet

Good news is that the dtp for £250 isn't just Lakeland so should be available for a little while


----------



## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> It's on my list of projects lol
> 
> The PID in the DTP is fixed to 93 degrees I think. No adjustment in that but a PID nonetheless. Fast warm time suits my needs perfect
> 
> Out of interest. OP have you done much YouTube research? I've found that's a great way to get a feel for a machine before buying.


Would second this. Although beware the linked videos and catching upgraditis


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

I'm too stingy to get too carried away (I hope).


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

It's definitely a tricky decision. Especially as you start learning loads and then think about upgrading


----------



## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Im definitely guilty of upgradeitus during my research phase of a purchase.

'Oh I see. Model X does this and is only £100 more...

In that case I may as well get model Y, after all that's only another £60 on model X'

Before you know it you've spent £1400+ within a year of returning to home coffee


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

The sage looks to be a nice machine. PID control albeit not adjustable like the lelit.

Genuinely interested to know how much better than my delonghi it would be now I've removed the pressurised basket. I'm sure milk would be better and the coffee *should* be better

My mate got a gaggia classic for xmas I think, so I'll get a go on that for comparison too


----------



## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

pgarrish said:


> The sage looks to be a nice machine. PID control albeit not adjustable like the lelit.
> 
> Genuinely interested to know how much better than my delonghi it would be now I've removed the pressurised basket. I'm sure milk would be better and the coffee *should* be better
> 
> My mate got a gaggia classic for xmas I think, so I'll get a go on that for comparison too


I had a delonghi before the DTP and it's a good step up I think. It's just a pleasure to use.


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I had a delonghi before the DTP and it's a good step up I think. It's just a pleasure to use.


Cheers

Food for thought


----------



## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> I had a delonghi before the DTP and it's a good step up I think. It's just a pleasure to use.


I had a gaggia cubika and it's a step up on that too.


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

Well I hummed and hawed, and the price went from £250 to £295 on Amazon so I bailed even though Lakeland had it (out of stock) for £250









Then I checked today and it was back to £250 on Amazon so I phoned my wife (she has Prime).... and she had to admit that she had phoned Lakeland and ordered me one for my birthday (April







) and they are back in stock this week









Thanks for everyone's advice. The DTP seems like a billy bargain at the price. Teemed with my (new burrs on order) Santos I will have no excuses for crap coffee soon







PATRICK, calling PATRICK @TheSystemicKid - HELP!!!!


----------



## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

pgarrish said:


> Well I hummed and hawed, and the price went from £250 to £295 on Amazon so I bailed even though Lakeland had it (out of stock) for £250
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good for you mate,

Exciting coffee times ahead. The question is, will you be made to wait until your birthday?

If so, that will be a loooong 3 months tick tock...


----------



## pgarrish (May 20, 2017)

igm45 said:


> Good for you mate,
> 
> Exciting coffee times ahead. The question is, will you be made to wait until your birthday?
> 
> If so, that will be a loooong 3 months tick tock...


Not a chance!!!! She'll be as bad as me I expect - in fact, it'll probably have to sit at home for a couple of days as I work away mon-thurs!

I almost convinced her to cancel from lakeland and buy through Amazon to get it this Thursday - but she needs some baking trays and the Sage gets them free delivery I think


----------



## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

pgarrish said:


> Not a chance!!!! She'll be as bad as me I expect - in fact, it'll probably have to sit at home for a couple of days as I work away mon-thurs!
> 
> I almost convinced her to cancel from lakeland and buy through Amazon to get it this Thursday - but she needs some baking trays and the Sage gets them free delivery I think


Better warranty with Lakeland so it'll be worth the wait for that alone.


----------

