# Lots to learn but would appreciate some quick advice!



## Jack-Jones (Mar 23, 2016)

Well where to start!









Just introduced myself and looking for some advice re-new purchase, but stuck with so many good/bad reviews.

I've been using my Gaggia Evolution Espresso for over 5 years now. I have a silvia wand fitted and the heavier 'classic' portafilter + a bottomless portafilter that I don't use too much. I use a Baratza Virtuoso grinder that I'm happy with and I enjoy the results I'm getting from my supply of 'Happy Donkey' which are pretty consistent for my needs, despite the Evolution's traits.

When I bought the Evolution I was looking at the Classic, along with the Rancilio Silvia machines, but didn't want to pay over £300 which was the then asking price for the classic, but now I'm ready to upgrade there is a lot to choose from and lots of good and bad reviews for most of the machines.

My choices:


Gaggia Classic. I was thinking about the Gaggia Classic "finally" but looking on Amazon, there are lots of people saying "the new machine is bad" and "not a patch on the older machines" sorry I didn't buy one years ago now! Yet I notice there is a lot of praise for them here.

Francis Francis X1. I can get a Francis Francis X1 machine for a very good price via Costco, "like the styling" but once again, there are not many people with anything good to say about this machine.

Rancilio Silvia, a strong possibility, but not done much homework on it yet. A little dated looking and probably not my wife's choice for our soon to be 'new kitchen' "She gets a kitchen so I'm having a new coffee machine"

Sage Duo Temperature Pro. Seen this machine a few times on the high street, "like the styling" disregarded, as very light by comparison to other machines and a smaller portafilter, but was surprised by the reviews when looking into it. Also like the idea of the cold water flush to cool the brew head down after steaming and the "pretty much" lifetime guarantee offered if I buy one from Lakeland.


Obviously, I've a lot of reading to get through, but would appreciate a few tips especially about the huge variation in reviews of the Gaggia Classic, 'old vs new' any thoughts on the Francis Francis X1 and really looking forward to reading "real user" reviews on the Sage Duo Temperature Pro, which could turn out to be the dark horse!

Thanks for looking in if you managed to get down this far!


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## GCGlasgow (Jul 27, 2014)

Hi Jack and welcome. I have a classic just now and previously owned a FFX1. The classic is much better imo. The FFx1 looks good and decent enough coffee but overheats easily. There have been some debate about old v new classic and the new classic does not have adjustable opv but still can make a decent shot. Second hand classics can be picked up for reasonable price and if you get one on here in sales thread will probably be well looked after.


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Hi Jack, I had a x1 and moved onto the Silvia which produces great coffee imo. Don't be put off by its looks, it's what it produces which matters. General consensus on here is that the older classics and are a lot better than the new Phillips model. There's a few people who rate the sage, but I think there's some questions on its reliability which has been difficult to gauge as its relatively new and if prefer milk based drinks the steam isn't the best. Just my thoughts, expect more and have deep pockets as you'll probably want to upgrade in a few years like us all!


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## Jack-Jones (Mar 23, 2016)

GCGlasgow & Jacko112

Thanks for your input, just what I was hoping for. I hadn't heard about overheating issues with the FFX1 so good to know and probably puts it out of the running. Also good to hear about the sales corner, just need to raise my post count to get to see what's on offer. Cant believe that I can get a Rancilio Silvia for just a few quid more than the basic Sage and yes, I do usually brew a large, double shot "somewhat wet" cappuccino, so the steaming power of the Rancilio could be put to good use!

Will be reading some and watching lots of YouTube before buying, but I'll post back when I've made the decision.

Thanks again









Jack


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Ive had a Francis Francis X1, I have a 2015 gaggia classic and also its predecessor.

I would say the Francis Francis X1 is better than either versions of the gaggia classic.

many reasons, but ones that come to mind are the build quality, brass boiler, looks.

Cant say in the 10 years of owning the FFX1 it over heated. It has a temperature gauge on the front, so you can see the actual temperature. Also, from what Ive just read it has a very narrow dead band

*Shot performance*

As I mentioned above in the first use section, the Francis! Francis! X1 cycles a lot. If you sit there and watch the machine, you'll see every 10 or 15 seconds, the boiler active lamp will come on, if only for a second or two, then shut off.

That in itself is a great thing. It means that the "deadband" of the thermostat is very low (if in fact it uses a deadband style thermostat). "Deadband" is a type of thermostat found in most espresso machines - usually it has an allowable range, between 2 and 10C, where it will shut off the heating coils whenever the machine reaches the top end of the "deadband". Typically, the top end of the deadband is 100C (sometimes more)... when the heating coils heat up the water to 100C, the thermostat trips off, and shuts down the heat. As the water in the boiler cools, it gets down to the low end of the deadband, and the heating coils are triggered on again.

Just from the short testing I did, I could see the deadband of the FF!! X1 is very tiny. That's good.

Out of the two gaggia classics I prefer the pre 2015 model, use the search function on this site , you will find plenty on it.

Must admit I like the look and sound of the Silvia and wish I had one as I reckon its the better machine than either of the gaggias and FFX1


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## Jack-Jones (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks Jumbo, more food for thought and very welcome. So far I'm edging towards the Silvia, the looks are growing on me!

It will fit under the units better than my Gaggia, the space between the drip tray and portafilter easily takes my large Cappuccino cups "the FFX1 looks pretty tight" and it has a good 'flat' usable cup warmer, unlike my Evolution and by all accounts the FFX1.

I'm a bit of a tinkerer and like the ability to open it up and upgrade as and when, so the pro build quality and accessible/accessories list is appealing, along with its impressive steam capacity. In fact, I think I'm talking myself into this with every word I type.


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

This is good reading and worth reading the whole thread and may tip you over the edge towards buying a Silvia

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?23822-Oh-Dear&highlight=dear


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## Jack-Jones (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks again, another good read.

Barring actually paying for it, I've pretty much decided on the Silvia. It would appear to be the perfect machine for my level of expertise at this point and from here I can start to experiment with different coffee suppliers and honing my technique once I've mastered the Silvia.

It all boils down to how far you want to take it, and as I'm currently enjoying my home brewed coffee making and drinking far more than I am from any of my coffee shop visits, I'll be more than happy with any improvements on what I'm getting now!

Jack


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

If you want to take it apart and tinker and upgrade, the Sage may not be the machine for you.

However, as far as I know the steam is as good or better on the DTP than the Silva. I'm basing this on a comparison video on you tube. I've never used a Silva so I can't say for sure.

One thing you may want to investigate is the fact that the DTP has a PID to keep the temperature stable. Apparently, on both the classic and the Silva you may need to add one if you want stable temperature. You might find this fun if you like to tinker.


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## Jack-Jones (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks jimbocz

I'm basing my remarks on the steam from the Silvia as opposed to the steam from the Sage, after watching a couple of videos where the reviewers have said "the steam from the Sage was weak" and to be honest it didn't look to good either, whereas the Silvia looked to be way ahead in the 'steaming stakes'.

I agree that tinkering with the Sage is probably out of the question and whether I tinker with the Silvia "or not" and to what degree, will depend on my results after a few weeks.

I'm used to temp' surfing with my Gaggia and from what I've seen with a stock Silvia, I'll have to get used to it again. I've seen PID's mentioned here "think they're a great idea" and although I like the idea of the MeCoffee PID I'll try and master the machine before getting too far ahead of myself and for my average of 2 large cappuccino's a day, I might not even bother!

Jack


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