# Advice on replacement machines ?



## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

Hi all,

I've been looking around here for a little while, but this is my first post...

I recently lost my old faithful Saeco Magic Cappuccino coffee machine, and am now in need of a new replacement. However I have no idea where to start as there seem to be so many machines available at the moment!

My needs are simple, 90% of the time I drink espresso so mainly need it make a good one







, with the occasional requirement for steam.

Budget would be around £300 or so.

And ideally it would be available in the UK, for warranty/service purposes, but this it not necessarily a deciding factor.

The Magic Cappuccino uses the pressurized portafilter and has always given me a good brew and crema but I'm not tied to it.

I would really appreciate some suggestions and guidance as to what machines to consider!

Many thanks


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Sage Duo Temp Pro would be my starting point for your budget


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## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

Thanks, any more suggestions?

Also, what are general thoughts on the Gaggia Classic vs Rancilio Silvia? How do these both compare to my Magic Cappuccino?


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

What grinder are you using? You might need to factor that into your budget too.


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## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

ashcroc said:


> What grinder are you using? You might need to factor that into your budget too.


Currently a Cuisinart DBM8U, which I've heard isn't tooooo bad (?) but may look at upgrading in the future if need be.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

craggus2000 said:


> Currently a Cuisinart DBM8U, which I've heard isn't tooooo bad (?) but may look at upgrading in the future if need be.


If your gonna use a manual machine like a silvia or gaggia , then that grinder needs replacing . Sorry

Silvia V Gaggia . Gaggia everytime , second hand one too .

the sage mentioned has more features in it in terms of keeping the temp consistent though.


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## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Gaggia everytime , second hand one too .


What makes the Gaggia a better choice? and is the latest model not as good as previous versions? What the differences between them?

I heard the newest version has a SS boiler over an aluminium one, but I'm unsure why this has a disadvantage.



Mrboots2u said:


> the sage mentioned has more features in it in terms of keeping the temp consistent though.


Is this because it has a PID built in? Does that make it generally better than the Gaggia, or does the Gaggia have more pros?

Thanks,


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

craggus2000 said:


> What makes the Gaggia a better choice? and is the latest model not as good as previous versions? What the differences between them?
> 
> I heard the newest version has a SS boiler over an aluminium one, but I'm unsure why this has a disadvantage.
> 
> ...


Gaggia - It's a lot cheaper second hand ....new Silvias switch em self off before they heat up ( apparently ) ....

Sage- Yep the pid , google temperature during for the gaggia and see if having to do that appeals first thing in the morning . A stable temp is key to getting consistent espresso


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

If you have to* buy new* 

out of the silvia or classic id choose the silvia

so it would be a choice between the sage or silvia.

If you decide to *buy 2nd hand*

*
*Id be looking at a silvia or a la pavoni


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

If you consider buying a Silvia - go for used. Price differential new is too much for the benefits. You can pick up very decent Classics for around £100 which would leave you money from your budget to think about upgrading to or buying a decent grinder. Buying used means less depreciation if you decide to upgrade down the line.


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## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> If you have to* buy new*
> 
> out of the silvia or classic id choose the silvia
> 
> so it would be a choice between the sage or silvia.


I'm currently torn between getting new with a warranty or a used well maintained machine...

Any clues on how the sage and silvia compare practically?

Can they both be dismantled easily for cleaning/backflushing?



Jumbo Ratty said:


> If you decide to *buy 2nd hand*
> 
> *
> *Id be looking at a silvia or a la pavoni


What kind of la pavoni should I be looking at (haven't seen these before)?

thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> If you consider buying a Silvia - go for used. Price differential new is too much for the benefits. You can pick up very decent Classics for around £100 which would leave you money from your budget to think about upgrading to or buying a decent grinder. Buying used means less depreciation if you decide to upgrade down the line.


Advice above ( buy a Silvia second hand ) coming from a man who owned a silvia ( as have I ) , as opposed to from someone who has no experience of the machine in real life .

Silvias are not bad machines , just they are a pain in the bottom to get the right temp each time .

Do Jl not do Sage products so you can try one out . I have not used a duo pro , by the way , so my advice on that is flawed to some degree. But Any temp management system has to be better than the Silvia


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

craggus2000 said:


> What kind of la pavoni should I be looking at (haven't seen these before)?
> 
> thanks


The La Pavoni Europiccola,, seeing as your drink requirements are 90% espresso 10% milk based.

Its a manual lever machine as opposed to a pump machine.

I think they look very nice, much nicer than the three machines being considered so far,, but thats could be a personal preference thing.

From what I hear people get superb results using them.


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## UbiquitousPhoton (Mar 7, 2016)

In defense of the Sylvia, it can be PID-ed by anyone with even the most basic of technical ability, but obviously this is at extra cost. It does make it an entirely different machine, however, but still single boiler - transitioning to and from milk is still ... a bit painful though. If you get one with the non-welded in boiler element, though (under about 8 years old iirc) then its pretty bomb-proof - the most complicated thing in there (in my old machine) is the add-on PID controller, everything else is noddy level. This can not be said for the sage, however you are getting an HX machine for your money, rather than a single boiler. I would recommend attempting to get hands on with one - as someone said before, John Lewis or sometimes Lakeland.

The La Pav is a good machine, but does require a fair level of skill ramp up in order to get good with it - there are numbers of reviews on amazon (for example) that back this up. This is as much as I know on these


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> This can not be said for the sage, however you are getting an HX machine for your money, rather than a single boiler.


A quick dumb question as I too am thinking of getting a new machine (have an old Classic), what is the difference between hx and single boiler?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Classic relies on a fairly crude temp sensor to keep it at operating temp. Problem with this is brew temp can occupy a band of several degrees which is why some people choose to fit a PID which controls the temp variability more accurately. With a HX, the aim is to achieve a much more consistent brew temp - see article  here


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

smallblueplanet said:


> A quick dumb question as I too am thinking of getting a new machine (have an old Classic), what is the difference between hx and single boiler?


Larger boiler - should be way more temp stable - more powerful steam and ability to steam and brew at same time .

To what degree , will be dependent on how big the boilers are .

You may need to flush the group to achieve temp stability tho


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

It doesn't matter which machine you go for ..... hang around here for too long and you'll be upgrading within the year. Don't try to fight the temptation


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## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

UbiquitousPhoton said:


> This can not be said for the sage, however you are getting an HX machine for your money, rather than a single boiler.


It's not showing as HX on Amazon, just a single boiler. Can anyone verify?

Just to clarify, this is the one we're talking about?? Amazon link


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Duo Temp Pro has a thermocoil boiler. For an explanation of how it works, have a look at the following

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/videos-home/ask-the-experts/what-is-a-thermoblock


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## craggus2000 (Dec 5, 2016)

Just to update, yesterday I took delivery of the Sage Duo Temp Pro, and initial opinions of it are very good! Going to be playing with it over the next few weeks to see how good I can get at making a decent espresso...

Any tips for the Sage?

Also, for anyone interested, I've listed my old Saecos in the For Sale forum.


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