# Extraction Issue ? Coffee tastes salty



## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum even though I have been lurking here for quite a long time now. I am a true espresso enthusiast and I finally decided to make some myself.

I bought a delonghi dedica a few months ago. I know what people think of this machine on this forum but I have read that it can still produce decent espresso if you replace the pressurised basket with a non-pressurised one (which I did). So I have bought https://www.amazon.co.uk/MagiDeal-Coffee-Pressurized-Breville-Delonghi/dp/B01JRH3DMS which does the job perfectly.

I then bought a sage smart grinder pro and after reading a few tutorials/posts on this sites and others, I started experimenting to find my setting.

Beans I use: https://www.coffeemasters.co.uk/super-crema-master-blend

I was after something quite strong/creamy and a good blend. Now that I have tried them , I think they are a bit too roasted for me but that is not the problem I have atm. They arrived quite fresh (roasted 2 weeks before delivery)

So here is what I did. For those of you who don't know the machine, the SGP goes from 1 to 60 in terms of grind size, 1 is the finest and espresso should be between 1 and 20

weighing 16g for each try

I started with setting 10 which was clearly way too coarse (coffee filled the cup in 10 sec)

Setting 7: 16g in / 30g out in less than 20 second

Setting 5 16g in / 37g out in 23 sec

Setting 4: 16g in / 46g out in 27 s

Setting 4: 16g in / 42g out in 24 s

I am currently using this setting 4 as it seems to be producing the "best" ratio (ratio that is closest to a 1:2 / 1:3)

But I am clearly not happy with the taste: tastes a bit salty/sour/not "creamy enough" even though my shots produce a lot of crema. They don't leave a nice lasting taste in the mouth

Am I missing something here ? from the taste, it probably means my coffee is under extracted but I find it difficult to believe with a setting as low as 4 and I can't go much finer

Also, when do you start counting extraction time ? (pump starting or coffee hitting the cup?)

I would like to precise what I am after: I want to be as close as possible to the taste you get in Italy with a persistent aroma. I should probably use Lavazza beans but for now I want to get the settings right with theses beans.

Any help would be greatly appreciated !

Thanks


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

What beans are you using ? (origin) fresh ? I think you need to try grinding finer and stopping shorter.


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

Are you tamping firmly enough?

Also the pour sounds a little fast so a finer grind or firmer tamp may help and give you a better extraction.

My experience of coffee in Italy was pretty much everywhere served a ristretto.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

The beans I use are super crema from coffee masters, roasted about a month ago so I guess pretty fresh still. Anyone has used them before ?

I would like to go finer but I don't have much room to go for as I am already on setting 4 (out of 60...)

I am not too sure if I am tamping enough, I am pressing pretty hard but can't make sure I am doing 15kg.

I have seen a lot of baristas in Italy only tamping a little bit and coffee tasted fantastic


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## Diggy87 (Sep 20, 2017)

damo said:


> The beans I use are super crema from coffee masters, roasted about a month ago so I guess pretty fresh still. Anyone has used them before ?
> 
> I would like to go finer but I don't have much room to go for as I am already on setting 4 (out of 60...)
> 
> ...


What sort of tamper are you using? If it is one of the plastic ones you may not be getting enough force


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@damo if you can't grind finer (why is this?) then you have to push more water through the puck. Start at 1:4 ratio, you can pull it back once you get a good flavour balance, if you grind finer.

Don't limit yourself to 25-30sec. Hit the ratio and adjust grind to steer flavour. Note time, but don't use it as a driver for adjustment, use grind vs taste.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Thanks MWJB. I could probably grind finer (I am on setting 4 and can go up to 1) but it would not leave me any room for more adjustment.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Are you adjusting with coffee in the grinder ? You may find there is compacted coffee inside not allowing the machine to grind cleanly. When making adjustments (with coffee in) it can be several doses before you receive the adjusted grind in the basket.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

@Diggy87 I use BlueSnail Coffee Tamper 51mm which I think is good enough for what I I am trying to achieve

@El carajillo

When I adjust settings, I tend to run it for about 5 seconds to clear any residual from previous settings. do you think that's enough ?


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

damo - I can understand being weary of running out of adjustment room but if it's not tasting good, that's why you need that adjustment room .

The only time I've tasted salty has been when I'm fairly sure it's underextracted coffee.

I think try MWJBs higher ratio suggestion.

With the SGP I'm fairly sure there is something you can do with the burr to mean that the finest setting goes finer (by picking it up and turning it I think?). I can't remember exactly what it is but if you take the hopper off once it's empty it included an instruction in there or have a look at the instruction manual...


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

hi

I posted this on another post re problems with Decaf and an SGP it might help . others have posted on here with a lot more knowledge than me and these are of my experience with the SGP .. Decaf needs a much finer grind generally than non Decaf ..

Crippy

I have been using a Sage grinder pro for about six months now which I bought new .

It has been used exclusively for Decaf 2 to 3 cups a day , firstly with the Sage Oracle and the last month with a Profitec 700 with no problems at all.

Yes I have found Decaf needs a much finer grind

I have found it easy to dial in to get good shots in the given time/weight and taste on both machines .

I use different Decaf freshly roasted beans from Redber and the odd bag from Waitrose .

I also now use the sage as a single dose grinder as well ..

I use a EazyTamp pro for my tamper which seems to give a consistent level tamp which for me as a beginner helped get rid of one variable and left me to sort out the dialling in.

So unless you have a duff SGP I would look at other variables such as tamping , bean freshness and storage etc .

The lowest I have had to go on mine is 4 on an older bean, with the top burr as I bought it on No6.

You need to keep the .burrs clean for consistency also check the top burr is locked in

Hope this helps

Further to this my SGP is as out of the box ..

You can adjust the top burr for wear . I think you take out the metal clip and rotate the plastic ring to the next setting for about .0.1mm (from memory )extra tightness between burrs ..

Another possible is how are you storing your beans once open ..

Best of Luck


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Thanks @jlarkin

There is indeed a setting on the SGP but it is supposed to be used only after the burrs start wearing a bit, which I did not expect after 2 weeks









The strange thing regarding taste is that I can't rally tell what's wrong: I feel a bit of saltiness but also a lot of dryness/astringent taste, which would be the sign of over-extracted ?

I struggle to make the difference between the two

From the ratios and time I gave you, does it look more likely to be under or over extracted ?

Starting with a higher ratio makes extraction easier ?


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@damo

When my Sage Oracle broke , I dug out my old Dualit Espressivo a similar machine to yours using with a non pressurised basket

They have a small pump .. The only way I could get a good coffee out of it was ignore the timings you'd expect from a more expensive machine .. I got it that I would get a good tasting extraction after about 50 plus seconds .. with a grind of about 6 on the SGP with A reasonable strong tamp . At the start it would just drip out .. you could tell the pump was straining a bit ,but it got there ..


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

damo said:


> Thanks @jlarkin
> 
> There is indeed a setting on the SGP but it is supposed to be used only after the burrs start wearing a bit, which I did not expect after 2 weeks
> 
> ...


Saltiness is most likely under, the idea that bitterness/dryness always means over-extraction is plain wrong. Over extraction has a sickly, smoky, drying bitterness. Coffee can have all sorts of bitterness from other causes, at under, normal & over-extraction.

Small/no hopper, short ratios...most likely under.

The difference between under & over is not easy to do, unless you make bonkers massive changes in grind, or brew ratio. Sometimes even pushing ratio won't do it, it can plateau.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Buy better coffee?


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

@Nicknak

That's useful thanks. I tried this (kind of) this morning:

Setting 4 with a bit more coffee in the basket (probably around 18g / didn't weight properly), harder tamp and longer extraction time (45s). Coffee tasted better albeit a little burnt but maybe that's more to do with the beans ?

Very slow flow all along with very nice crema. I got about 54g in the cup which is a 1:3 ration (still a little long for me, what can I do to "shorten that" ?)

@Mrboots2u

have you got any advice on good beans ? I thought the coffee masters beans were good quality.

As I said I want to get as close as possible to the taste you get in Italy. Are the lavazza beans recommended (crema e aroma) ? I only see that or illy when I drink coffee in Italy


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## xxb (Jul 18, 2018)

what temperature setting do you have the dedica on? I had problems with under extraction until I set it to the highest temperature setting.

Also found hitting the steam button for a few seconds just before hitting the brew button increased the temp and helped with extraction issues.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

damo said:


> @Mrboots2u
> 
> have you got any advice on good beans ? I thought the coffee masters beans were good quality.


Loads of excellent roasters advertise here on the forum











> As I said I want to get as close as possible to the taste you get in Italy. Are the lavazza beans recommended (crema e aroma) ? I only see that or illy when I drink coffee in Italy


Try Lavazza / Illy beans then?


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

I have set the machine on high temp as well, I measured temperature around 86 Celsius which should be okish ?

I will try to use the steam button to raise it a little bit


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

damo said:


> I have set the machine on high temp as well, I measured temperature around 86 Celsius which should be okish ?
> 
> I will try to use the steam button to raise it a little bit


Measured how ? Honestly Id leave the machine at its default temp.


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## 9719 (Mar 29, 2015)

Suggest you read this article through and digest it before Mr.B recommends it.....

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D22879&share_tid=22879&share_fid=6813&share_type=t

And here is a very long list of recommended coffee roasters, strangely Coffee Masters don't appear....interesting....wonder why?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D1656&share_tid=1656&share_fid=6813&share_type=t

If you find the above list to daunting there is this which helps to narrow down your selection in all types of ways and is extremely useful and easy to use

http://coffeediff.co.uk/coffee


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

@Mrboots2u

I am using an instant read meat thermometer which I believe is quite precise. measuring without portafilter just when water comes out of the machine.


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## xxb (Jul 18, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Measured how ? Honestly Id leave the machine at its default temp.


the delonghi dedica, has function to adjust to the temperature to a low, medium, and high setting. its default is medium and I found it wasn't hot enough increasing it to the highest setting helped.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

damo said:


> The beans I use are super crema from coffee masters, roasted about a month ago so I guess pretty fresh still. Anyone has used them before ?
> 
> I would like to go finer but I don't have much room to go for as I am already on setting 4 (out of 60...)
> 
> ...


 Did you buy 6ks in one go?

Less than £10 a kilo sets my spider senses tingling, there is no magic ingredient to make cheap coffee, except , well cheap coffee.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

No only bought 1kg - which already seemed a lot as I never tried it before.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@damo

My experience with the Dualit was the longer the machine was on the better it got ..

I ran nearly a cup of water thru an empty porta filter to warm everything up..

As other have said fresh coffee a must, if you are buying a kilo how you store it is important ..

I buy kilo at a time , store it in vacuum containers and it lasts me about two weeks ..

I aimed for about 18 in 36 out .. this was the best I could get out of it to keep a reasonable taste ..

Also even at the best it would never match the Oracle or the Profitec for taste but always better than the pressurised ..

But pretty good

You May have found the limit of the machine ..


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nicknak said:


> You May have found the limit of the machine ..


Machines are rarely limited, it will produce something drinkable but it doesn't know how to this. That's where the operator comes in. Work out what it will do, then keep doing that thing.

A blend with Robusta will be limiting taste-wise.

If it has a thermoblock a few flushes should get it up to temp.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Ok I have ordered italian job beans from rave coffee and will start again when I receive


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm back and now using fresh (roasted on 7th of Sept) rave italian jobs.

Tastes better BUT still a few interrogations:

I started with SGP grinder set on 10: quick flow and under extracted, went on to 8 and choked the machine

Back to 10 / harder tamp and got 40 g out of 17g in less than 25s

I then put grinder on 9, same sort of output and sour taste

This morning I try again on setting 8 and again a very quick flow and under-extracted taste (38g out of 17g in less than 25s)

Is my tampering that bad ? looks like adjusting grind size does not have an impact on extraction so I am guessing I am tamping in a very inconsistent manner ?

I was thinking of taking a barista course in order to correct what could be easily corrected, did people who did that find it useful ?

thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

damo said:


> I'm back and now using fresh (roasted on 7th of Sept) rave italian jobs.
> 
> Tastes better BUT still a few interrogations:
> 
> ...


grind size does effect extraction , you seem to be judging "extraction" as time a shot takes.

How the coffee is distributed in the basket effects taste and time, tamping really not so much .

If still "sour" push your extraction to 17> 50 g taste on your current setting.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Thanks Mr boots

I know that time is the least important variable but let me explain my reasoning and please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

First, I only drink black coffee and never any milk based drink. I like my coffee to be quite rich/syrupy/sweet and thick (short espresso / ristretto style coffee)

I am mentioning time because my goal is to get a 1:2 ratio (max) in around 25/30 sec - I know this not the most important variable but getting 1/3 in 20 seconds makes me think the flow is too fast (again correct me if I'm wrong please).

My understanding is that, in order to get the coffee I like, I need to get a slow flow that would five me a 1:2 ratio in 25/30 Sec ?

regarding coffee distribution in the basket, I am grinding in a small container first to weigh 17g exactly then I add it to the basket in 2 or 3 different batches and tap slightly each time to make sure coffee is equally distributed. I then tamp.

Another thing that I don't get: why did I choke the machine the first time I ground with a setting on 8 and 3 days later coffee was flowing very fast with the same setting ?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

damo said:


> Thanks Mr boots
> 
> I know that time is the least important variable but let me explain my reasoning and please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.
> 
> ...


Hi you references sour and under extracted , if you wish to increase sweetness and "extraction yield " the simplest way of doing this is to increase the brew ratio.

Again why aim for a 1:2 in 30 seconds , you are not enjoying it, those numbers are arbitrary to some degree.

If you want a ristretto style thick coffee then you need to change the ratio again , I would be going to 1:1:5 ish , to see if this hits your fancy.

There is some sweetness that can come from these shorter shots.

Stop tamping each time, it it overly complicated and isnt helping.

Add basket to coffee ( via container if you want ) , get as level as you can before tamping , then tamp.

Re Why you choked a machine and then it didnt, who knows, coffee could have outgassed more after 3 days , this would be my guess.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@damo

These small thermoblock machines are designed to be used with pressurised basket with a very light tamp .

It is quite difficult to get the drink you want from a pressurised basket .

I know you are using the non pressurised basket now .

These machines are difficult to get up to the right temperature and maintain it thru the shot ..

When i tried with my dualit with the same tamp and grind to the oracle and later the new machine it would totally choke the machine .

As I said before to get a decent drink I had to semi choke the machine to where it completed a 1:2 ratio shot in 50 plus seconds..

i believe the pumps do not deliver enough pressure to do a half decent drink in the 25/30 sec bracket .

As others have said don't fixate on the time..

Work within the parameters the machine will let you

good luck


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

@Nicknak

I'm trying to get a slower flow too. How did you manage to do that on the Dualit ? just grind finer and finer until you get this slow flow ? (1:2 in 50 + sec)


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

It was slightly easier for me as I had been using the oracle for a bit until it broke .. so I started with the grind I was using on that and adjusted the tamp, until I got the taste I liked .( using Sage grinder pro )

I bought a metal 51mm metal tamp from Ebay started using my thumbs on it near the portafilter to keep level then gave a push using it as usual .. It was quite a fine line on the tamp , too much total choke .

There was a lot of trial and error , to get it where I liked it was where it would appear to be choking then dripping and a slow pour ..

(I was doing this On a machine out of warranty )


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

I have the same grinder so what was your setting out of curiosity ?

I have read other posts where I see that a quick flow could be due to too fine a grind and puck fracturing, I am wondering if I am not in this particular case because as I go finer (currently on 8), I do not see any slowing down in the flow..


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I'm using a Profitec 700 now ,I used the dualit as a stop gap..

I am still using the Sage grinder for decaf though .

On my Sage I use 8 as the start point for dialling in a new bean .

Im not sure if on each different Sage grinder the numbers will equal the same grind equivalent.

But 8 would be a good start.

As I said before try adjusting your tamping level bit by bit (little bit more down pressure in small increments )

When you get to a full on tamp and the taste no better taste try a finer grind .

Just change one thing at a time so you don't confuse yourself..

Im not sure these small machine have enough pressure to fracture a puck, especially at your grind setting.

So it might be your tamping pressure..

I believe they ramp up pressure quite slowly and the way it heats water must slow it down somewhat..

i aslo found that the longer i left it on for before I used it the better it was.. I made sure the portafilter was hot (put it in hot water) Hot cup helped @damo hope this helps


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Helpful thanks @Nicknak

I am already switching machine on quite early before I start making coffee and I run hot water through portafilter in the cup to warm everything up

I guess I could also try to raise temp a bit on the delonghi


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@damo ... I would try that definitely . My current and possibly all the more expensive machines are set at 93degrees C at the factory and some can be changed if you fancy . From what I read coffee extracts best between certain temperatures around 93c

LouiseB mentioned turning it up to highest in an earlier post on this thread .. My Dualit hasn't that luxury ..

If you do I would try that with every you were doing for your best shot . then while keeping the temp the same try changing only one thing at a time ,ie going through different tamp pressure ,then grind etc


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

It's unlikely to be tamping pressure. It really doesn't have the effect people imagine it does.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@Mrboots2u perhaps you could explain more...

I found with the Dualit ,which is a similar machine to The Op that tamping made loads of difference to the flow ..

There is also loads of stuff on the internet about getting a tamping technique etc etc

I would be interested in your views , which might also be helpful to the OP


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There is a difference between technique (it being level) and a perceived difference in pressure.

I did my own tests from no tamp to 30lbs, it doesn't make this big difference to flow. Distribution does not tamp pressure.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Mrboot2u I must say I am struggling understanding how that works ?

Surely a compressed medium will restrict flow more than one that is not .. especially with something ground as fine for espresso ..

My time playing with the Dualit would suggest otherwise..

Also with the La Pavoni all the advise Is for a lighter tamp..


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nicknak said:



> Mrboot2u I must say I am struggling understanding how that works ?
> 
> Surely a compressed medium will restrict flow more than one that is not .. especially with something ground as fine for espresso ..
> 
> ...


Don't think so much about tamp pressure. If you tamp at all, you can grind fine enough to choke the machine, grind very coarse (drip filter) and you'll never tamp hard enough to pull a decent shot of espresso - the grind size is the restriction. All you need to do is make the puck even & flat, whether with a pound of weight, or with 30.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@MWJB That makes more sense to me ,in that you are restricting the flow by making the grind smaller ..

So from that if you grind slightly coarser than that where you are so fine as not to need a tamp, then more tamping pressure would be needed ..

It is strange why all the calibrated and levelling tamps usually come with a 30LB spring .

so people using them would likely have a coarser grind then when dialling in ?

i have a EazyTamp Pro 5 star which comes with three differently rated springs I might try experimenting with that


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Nicknak said:


> @MWJB That makes more sense to me ,in that you are restricting the flow by making the grind smaller ..
> 
> So from that if you grind slightly coarser than that where you are so fine as not to need a tamp, then more tamping pressure would be needed ..
> 
> ...


30lb is within the normal range of tamp, so you're not going to be testing outsde the envelope - there have been several studies on tamp pressure, all came to the same conclusion...a few kg to 20kg makes no difference.

I tamp with the weight of a grooming tool, about 400g, same grind as when I tamp with over 5kg with a regular tamper (hard to tamp less than 5kg).

Experiment with what you want, but I feel you're reading way too much importance into this.


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@MWJB I will !! I am more than happy with what I do and the taste that I am getting.. in the tasty test.. @damo hope your experience with your coffee improves.. and keep experimenting until you are happy


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

finer grind this morning: slower extraction and 34g out of 17 in around 30 sec. Improvement in texture, thicker and more syrupy which I thought was an improvement but barely any improvement in the taste: still sour to begin with then tasting ok and leaving a good after taste

should I be aiming for a higher yield to balance sourness ?

My issue is that I don't really enjoy long coffees


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

damo said:


> finer grind this morning: slower extraction and 34g out of 17 in around 30 sec. Improvement in texture, thicker and more syrupy which I thought was an improvement but barely any improvement in the taste: still sour to begin with then tasting ok and leaving a good after taste
> 
> should I be aiming for a higher yield to balance sourness ?
> 
> My issue is that I don't really enjoy long coffees


Then try pulling 20-24g out, no other changes.

You may be able to under-extract, but come in below sourness, these shots can be sweeter than sour, if a bit simple tasting.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Then try pulling 20-24g out, no other changes.
> 
> You may be able to under-extract, but come in below sourness, these shots can be sweeter than sour, if a bit simple tasting.


20g in and 24g out ?

or pulling 20 to 24g with 17 in ?

Thanks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

damo said:


> 20g in and 24g out ?
> 
> or pulling 20 to 24g with 17 in ?
> 
> Thanks


17g in 20-24g out.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

If I understand correctly, that would be less yield and therefore less extraction ?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

damo said:


> If I understand correctly, that would be less yield and therefore less extraction ?


Exactly.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

damo said:


> If I understand correctly, that would be less yield and therefore less extraction ?


You related you wanted a ristretto style , thick espresso . 1:2 isnt going to be this .

Reduce the ratio and taste, don't think in terms of " extraction" just taste it and evaluate it.

There is some sweetness to be be had from shots with shorter brew ratios, a different experience to the longer shots for sure, but with a darker roasted coffee, it's can mask some of the "bitterness" .


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

Will try that. Thanks !


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

I am back after a lot of different experiments and often the same result, which is starting to be a bit disappointing:

I have tried a lot of different ratios : from 1:1 to 1:4 and can clearly see a difference in taste but they all come with a very unpleasant acidity to start

I have tried lowering/raising temperature. Again, no incidence on acidity

I have played on grind size with obvious changes in taste but unable to get rid of this acidity

Amongst all the different attempts, I ONCE had a delicious espresso in my opinion with a 1:3 ratio but doing the same thing the day after did not produce the same result.

Overall my shots look very good with nice persistent crema and good texture and they all leave a very pleasant chocolate after taste in the mouth but the taste that comes first is acidity (I know espresso has a bit of acidity but this is unpleasant)

I read somewhere that changing the pump could help. Currently the dedica uses Ulka EP5 which can be (easily?) replaced with Ulka EX4. The result would be more pressure and slower flow rate, which should extract more from coffee. What is your opinion ?


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

giving some update in case anyone is interested.. I proceeded to that change of pump and also replaced the panarello wand with a Rancilio Silvia Wand (tutorial videos of youtube for a dedica owner who is interested)

Results start getting very interesting but what really did it for me is dosing more coffee into the basket, I went from 17 to 19g and that has greatly reduced the flow speed and impacted taste, no longer sour and much more sweetness and chocolate flavours coming out.

Can anyone explain whys this happen and why is it important to have coffee close to the shower screen ? (something I have read on other parts of this forum)

Overall very happy with the results now and managing to get some simple latte art for my gf who drinks it with milk.

It is crazy how addicting this thing can be.. I am already thinking about my next machine but want to learn as much as possible with the current one


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Without knowing the output, the amount of espresso your making in weight it's hard to tell what's happened.

It could be that the higher dose it leading to less channeling in the basket.


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## damo (Sep 4, 2018)

19g in and 40 g out in about 27 sec.

Not as thick and creamy as I would ideally like but the taste is good. It tastes sour if I extract less so I am tempted to keep my setting as is


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