# A little help with SGP settings



## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Evening,

I've been practicing with some Co-op beans and trying to get a good ratio/pull time on my DTP. Good beans are arriving tomorrow but thought I'd get used to the whole process with these ones first. Grinding 17g into the pf straight from the SGP. I don't have a funnel and therefore clump management isn't the best. A funnel is on order. I'm aiming for roughly 1:2.5 in terms of weight in/out.

Shot 1 - Grind setting of 8. Absolutely nothing out of the machine and it shut off after a minute. Water on top of puck.

Shot 2 - Grind setting of 9. A total of 4g into my cup. Water on top of the puck again. I went to bed a thought about reading the manual. I didn't read the manual.

Morning came and I read on here that someone suggested a grind setting of 15. I gave this a go:

Shot 3 - Grind setting 15. A little better but the flow was still drippy. I probably got around 30g in the cup. Tasted awful and bitter. Really gloopy puck.

I thought 15 was quite a course setting so decided to change a different variable - my tamp.

Shot 4 - Grind setting 15. Lighter tamp yet still quite firm. Stopped the machine at 48g. Not as bitter as shot 3 but still not great.

Shot 5 - Tried to replicate shot 4. Not sure what I changed but it was rounder in taste. Perhaps a slightly lighter tamp. Still too smoky to my tastes though. Puck was still kinda gloopy.

I can see two things hindering my quest for coffee greatness here: 1) Co-op beans and C) clumps perhaps leading to channeling. Though saying that wouldn't this lead to water running through too quick and therefore sour tasting coffee? I'm a little surprised that the lower grind settings don't give any results at all, especially as I've read that SGP owners have struggled with not being able to grind fine enough on this grinder.

Any pointers greatly appreciated, even if that includes "wait for your new beans to arrive".

Cheers

David


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

Personally I wouldn't use tamping pressure as a variable. The other point is the SGP isn't calibrated, so your 15 isn't the same as someone else's 15..

If 17->30 was bitter on 15, go coarser. Also, roughly what was the shot time for 30g out?


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> Personally I wouldn't use tamping pressure as a variable. The other point is the SGP isn't calibrated, so your 15 isn't the same as someone else's 15..
> 
> If 17->30 was bitter on 15, go coarser. Also, roughly what was the shot time for 30g out?


1 minute. I pulled the cup and scales straight after it cut out.

I agree with not using tamping pressure as a variable. I'll try going coarser on the SGP.


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## jonnycooper29 (Apr 11, 2018)

DH83 said:


> 1 minute. I pulled the cup and scales straight after it cut out.
> 
> I agree with not using tamping pressure as a variable. I'll try going coarser on the SGP.


From what I've read, some pressure profile machines will be capable of pouring a 1 minute shot that tastes good. I'd say in general 1 min will most likely produce a bitter shot. You could probably aim for half that time as a rough guide.

If my memory serves me right, the SGP espresso range is up to 25 on the screen? So you still have plenty to play with.

And as I found out a day or so ago, some beans need a huge setting change (I knew each bean might require a bit of a change, but my Niche had to go back 5 notches, which I've never been close to), so it could just be the beans need grinding a lot coarser.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

jonnycooper29 said:


> From what I've read, some pressure profile machines will be capable of pouring a 1 minute shot that tastes good. I'd say in general 1 min will most likely produce a bitter shot. You could probably aim for half that time as a rough guide.


I usually aim for around 30-40 seconds shot time. I'll have another play when I get home after work with a coarser grind setting. You're right in that the SGP offer 1-25 in terms of espresso grind settings.

Cheers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonnycooper29 said:


> From what I've read, some pressure profile machines will be capable of pouring a 1 minute shot that tastes good. I'd say in general 1 min will most likely produce a bitter shot. You could probably aim for half that time as a rough guide.
> 
> If my memory serves me right, the SGP espresso range is up to 25 on the screen? So you still have plenty to play with.
> 
> And as I found out a day or so ago, some beans need a huge setting change (I knew each bean might require a bit of a change, but my Niche had to go back 5 notches, which I've never been close to), so it could just be the beans need grinding a lot coarser.


Those one minute shots, require a seriously fine grind from a grinder capable of going that fine and keeping consistent.

While capable of making espresso the SGP aint gonna do the long shots, under fine grind justice.

At one minute it depends on the brew ratio how a s hot will taste.

If under 1:2 then more than likely it's gonna be under extracted. Could be sour , could be bitter.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I suspect that the DTP is set up the same as the BE. Over pressure valve set at around 15 bar. When brewing at that sort of level things can get very drippy due to the amount going out of it.







As Sage told me when I mentioned that I worked in that region - it just dribbles out up that high. They see it as something that doesn't work.

On the BE thanks to the gauge it's possible to balance it. The other indication is the amount of water going into the drip tray when a shot is pulled. From memory 2 or 3 times the shot volume is likely to be ok. More ?? and why pass but would suspect that the pump may need to shift more volume of water than it can manage.

My SGP would send the pressure right up there at a setting of 15 with many beans in a 14g basket.

John

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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

I'll have a play with settings 16 and over later on when I get in. Thanks for the advice and information everyone.


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## adam85 (Feb 16, 2018)

What seems to work for me - albeit I've been having less coffee for a fair while now (hello to those I chatted to last year!







) - on the the same Sage set up - is to aim for 18g.

When I do make use of Lavazza and other shopping centre coffee, I'm usually creating *18g*, via a grind time of *19.8 seconds / grind size 14, *on the SGP. That usually gives me what the DTP can handle, within *30 seconds max*, which outputs a *2:1* ratio weighing circa *36g*.

Usually tastes okay - as good as a Costa Coffee - but no where near the taste of better beans I like ( The Blending Rooms).

Hope that helps.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

adam85 - that does help - thank you. I have a feeling these Co-op beans are a bit crap. Didn't realise you could buy Lavazza beans so might give them a go also. I had some great results from Lavazza ground coffee. Probably nowhere near what I can achieve but a useful starting point.

Cheers.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DH83 said:


> adam85 - that does help - thank you. I have a feeling these Co-op beans are a bit crap. Didn't realise you could buy Lavazza beans so might give them a go also. I had some great results from Lavazza ground coffee. Probably nowhere near what I can achieve but a useful starting point.
> 
> Cheers.


If you fancy Lavazza there are some commercial packs on Amazon. Ikg. 2 off them are arabica blends. Depends what you like really.

This one seems to suite higher ratios







even the one suggested on the pack 14in and 60 out.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFHA/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No suggestions on this one and I found lower ratios where better maybe as high as 1 to 3.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFC0/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Tasting notes are on Lavazza's global site under hotel / restaurant or something like that.

I tried them as some one was looking for decent beans to learn on. Tricky as some of Lavazza stuff offered in both ground and as beans can taste way way different via an espresso machine.

Just add that I drank both packs. 1st one isn't the sort of bean taste I would usually buy 2nd one - could be forgiven for thinking it was fresh roasted. No real problems with the 1st and probably for people who think that pure arabica should produce a more delicate drink.

John

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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DH83 said:


> adam85 - that does help - thank you. I have a feeling these Co-op beans are a bit crap. Didn't realise you could buy Lavazza beans so might give them a go also. I had some great results from Lavazza ground coffee. Probably nowhere near what I can achieve but a useful starting point.
> 
> Cheers.


Perhaps try someshly roasted beans from a UK roaster too . It's hits or miss how fresh your lavazza will be .

Yes your analysis of co op beans is probably correct


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DH83 said:


> adam85 - that does help - thank you. I have a feeling these Co-op beans are a bit crap. Didn't realise you could buy Lavazza beans so might give them a go also. I had some great results from Lavazza ground coffee. Probably nowhere near what I can achieve but a useful starting point.
> 
> Cheers.


Perhaps try some freaky roasted beans from a UK roaster too . It's hits or miss how fresh your lavazza will be .

There is a wealth of great coffee out there beyond your big brands, i urge you to try some .

Yes your analysis of co op beans is probably correct


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Perhaps try some freaky roasted beans from a UK roaster too . It's hits or miss how fresh your lavazza will be .
> 
> There is a wealth of great coffee out there beyond your big brands, i urge you to try some .
> 
> Yes your analysis of co op beans is probably correct


Indeed, I have some Rocko Mountain on order from Foundry Coffee. Looking forward to trying those but also don't want to waste too many beans.

ajohn - thank you for the amazon links - appreciate that.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Thanks for the advice and suggestions guys. I'll continue to practice. I have a funnel being delivered on Friday which should help a bit. Will post back with my findings









Cheers


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## adam85 (Feb 16, 2018)

DH83 said:


> Thanks for the advice and suggestions guys. I'll continue to practice. I have a funnel being delivered on Friday which should help a bit. Will post back with my findings
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just double check your funnel will work within your Sage grinder... I bought one and realised that if I didn't want to pyshcially hold the portafilter under the grinder (I.e. leaving it on the cradle), it wouldn't fit....

I should either sell the funnel, or reduce its height


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

adam85 said:


> Just double check your funnel will work within your Sage grinder... I bought one and realised that if I didn't want to pyshcially hold the portafilter under the grinder (I.e. leaving it on the cradle), it wouldn't fit....
> 
> I should either sell the funnel, or reduce its height


Good point. I guess I'll see when it arrives, I dont mind holding it under the grinder while it does its thing if it means i can deal with those pesky clumps.

Notched things up to 18 tonight on the grinder. 17.4 > 41.5 in around 32 seconds. Definitely a fuller taste and lots of different flavours but still a slight smokeyness. May be a characteristic of the beans perhaps. I have a feeling that's as good as I'm going to get from these ones. Puck was still quite gloopy as well though no water sitting on top as before. Does this mean I could go coarser still?

Cheers.


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## adam85 (Feb 16, 2018)

Does it say on the bean pack what the expected flavour should be?

Try cranking this up to 18g exactly in, for the 30 seconds.... may change things slightly, as it has for me in the past.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

adam85 said:


> Does it say on the bean pack what the expected flavour should be?
> 
> Try cranking this up to 18g exactly in, for the 30 seconds.... may change things slightly, as it has for me in the past.


Not on the back of the Co-op ones I'm afraid.

I think I'm going in the right direction and now it's a matter of making smaller adjustments. 18g of ground coffee in the basket has meant I've struggled to locked the pf in place. 18g of freshly ground may yield a different result. I'll give it a a go. Will try my 'good' beans at the weekend also after allowing them to rest for a few more days.

Cheers.


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## adam85 (Feb 16, 2018)

Suppose I am grinding my Lavaz' beans a bit more than you are your co-op wonders, so I can compact more in I'm guessing.

The better beans I buy, the lower the grinding number I can use, so this may be the same for you. General I tweak things with a new set of beans, and taste via espresso shots until I feel they taste better. Anyway, good luck


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

adam85 said:


> Suppose I am grinding my Lavaz' beans a bit more than you are your co-op wonders, so I can compact more in I'm guessing.
> 
> The better beans I buy, the lower the grinding number I can use, so this may be the same for you. General I tweak things with a new set of beans, and taste via espresso shots until I feel they taste better. Anyway, good luck


That makes sense. I've got my eye on a 1kg bag of Lavazza beans. They get good reviews and are probably worth the £13 or whatever. I think if anything else they'd be good to practice on. Out of interest what Lavazza beans do you use?

Cheers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@DH83

Be careful you are not spending £13 on beans that are already past their sell by date in terms of freshness, once opened that 1kh is gonna have go get used pretty quick before it goes, and it could have been stat on a shelf for weeks/ months past roast date.

In terms of practice , using coffee that isn't fresh teaches how to make coffee with less than optimum ingredients, and can be pretty frustrating.

Have a look at the coffee compass thread if you like a darker roasted coffee and ask for some suggestions there. You will be buying from a Uk roaster, getting freshly roasted beans, from someone who pays taxes for not much more than you are spending on Lavazza.

Cheers


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Thanks for the tip Mrboots2u. I'll check that thread out. In terms of beans I think I prefer a medium roast. I'm not a massive fan of anything that's too bitter but still like something that tastes strong.

Cheers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DH83 said:


> Thanks for the tip Mrboots2u. I'll check that thread out. In terms of beans I think I prefer a medium roast. I'm not a massive fan of anything that's too bitter but still like something that tastes strong.
> 
> Cheers


Well i think coffee compass will service you well, look for something with a Brazilian mix perhaps.

Roasts ,medium etc are subjective to some degree, i would class alot of Lavazza espresso as too " dark and bitter for me"

Strength is a function of brewing for me , as opposed to a taste descriptor. -it\s amount of coffee used to amount of coffee made, so perhaps you are looking for coffee that has notes of dark chocolate etc etc which you equate to a taste of strength, as opposed to those ratings you get on supermarkets bags which are effectively talking about roasts types.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Mrboots2u said:


> Well i think coffee compass will service you well, look for something with a Brazilian mix perhaps.
> 
> Roasts ,medium etc are subjective to some degree, i would class alot of Lavazza espresso as too " dark and bitter for me"
> 
> Strength is a function of brewing for me , as opposed to a taste descriptor. -it\s amount of coffee used to amount of coffee made, so perhaps you are looking for coffee that has notes of dark chocolate etc etc which you equate to a taste of strength, as opposed to those ratings you get on supermarkets bags which are effectively talking about roasts types.


I think you may be right here. Less strength required = longer shot time. Essentially a more diluted espresso right? Now that I'm in or around where I need to be I'll perhaps just bite the bullet and use the better beans (once they're ready).

Cheers


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

DH83 said:


> I think you may be right here. Less strength required = longer shot time. Essentially a more diluted espresso right? Now that I'm in or around where I need to be I'll perhaps just bite the bullet and use the better beans (once they're ready).
> 
> Cheers


You could run the shot longer for less strength.

A shot where it is 18g for coffee to make 36g off espresso will be stronger than one where 18 g of coffee makes 54g of espresso.

You could run the shot longer with the existing grind, if it a little more bitter than you would like then I'd coarsen the grind a little.


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Thank you for your help. Appreciate it.


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

Down to personal preferences the red Lavazza for me are the best beans on the market for its price. I only buy small 250g bags and use them within a week time. They are always fresh, Lavazza knows how to make them and when you open the bag they are same as freshly roasted, many ppl will disagree here but that's my experience. Taste is typical Italian espresso, chocolate flavour, caramel, just the right taste and a lots of crema.

Here how I use my set up:

SGP settings:

Grind size: 12

time: 13.6 sec for around 14-15 grams into single wall double basket on Duo temp pro

Some adjustments may need it after the 4th day 14sec and size down to 11 ect

Extraction ratio 1:4, that's how I like it, I do double shots around 60ml and takes around 28-30sec, crema colour is golden brown- nocciola, smells so nice that my neighbors always make a compliment when they are walking past


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## DH83 (Dec 17, 2018)

Thank you for that Tonino, that's helpful info.


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

You are welcome ☕


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## adam85 (Feb 16, 2018)

Tonino said:


> Extraction ratio 1:4, that's how I like it, I do double shots around 60ml and takes around 28-30sec, crema colour is golden brown- nocciola, smells so nice that my neighbors always make a compliment when they are walking past


Wowzer. That's a lot of output, in a fairly short timeframe. Interesting.

But as @Mrboots2u mentions, there are far better coffee beans than what I have been drinking this week.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

1:4 is getting towards typical old school Italian style espresso (14 g double into 60ml or 2 ounces ) would more than likely suit lavazza, if thata your bag.


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## Tonino (Mar 26, 2018)

Yeap, that's what I am after ☕


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DH83 said:


> That makes sense. I've got my eye on a 1kg bag of Lavazza beans. They get good reviews and are probably worth the £13 or whatever. I think if anything else they'd be good to practice on. Out of interest what Lavazza beans do you use?
> 
> Cheers


If you want to use Lavazza I'd suggest these. They will last over a month if the bag is kept sealed.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFC0/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Chocolatey and suites ratios more like the ones people often mention but as is often the case better higher than the usual 1 to 2. That's true of fresh roasted as well.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000SDMFHA/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

More delicate,floral so a little exotic and probably according to taste better at 14g in up to 60 out.

Both are arabica and both behave as many fresh roasted beans do re the grinder. especially the first one. The 2nd one gives the grinder an easier life. 1kg is plenty for some one to get used to using the machine, tuning and trying variations. Initially it's easy to use 250g of fresh up like this without really sorting the bean out and it might turn out to be a bean that the user just doesn't like. There are all sorts of tastes out there. Some traditional coffee wise are somewhat unusual. Fresh roasted generally need keeping for a week before use and they to can generally be used for a month after that providing they are stored sensibly.

Rosa, the other one mentioned OK but if some one has drunk it via french press etc they may be sorely disappointed via an espresso machine. Their Espresso blend same pack size goes the other way bu probably includes a heavy dose of a strong robusta.

John

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