# 2nd hand Vesuvius vs new Minima (vs new Lelit Elizabeth)



## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

Hi everyone,

Firstly I want to say how much I appreciate all the great advice and commentary in these forums. I've learnt so much and really enjoy reading them in the few moments I have to myself each day (3 kids; 3 rabbits; need to maintain a good work / wife balance, etc.) I bought a Mazzer SJ on the advice offered here last year and it really has made a significant difference!

having taught myself to pull mostly ok / sometimes even quite good shots over the past 2 years using my KitchenAid-pseudo dual-boiler-Gaggia-guts-derived machine twinned with a Mazzer SJ, I've reached that moment every self-taught amateur barrista in these forums does when they honestly believe it's not them but their tools that are holding them back. In short, I want to upgrade.

I've read most of the posts about the above machines but wish to ask one simple question: given that I'm no pro which machine is most likely to provide reliably good shots of the kind that would equal the coffee you might get in a good, but not top tier, coffee shop?

a bit more about me and our needs:

1. cappuccino drinkers primarily.

2. Typically make two double shot based milky drinks 3 X per day X 2 for me and my equally caffeine-keen wife (6 or so coffees per day). 3. don't mind cleaning and maintenance at all. 4. will use Ashbeck bottled water.

5. Can stretch to £1400 ish top end (note that there is a Vesuvius on sale on this forum for £1500).

6. Just want the very best result I have the right to expect given my current abilities, but am willing to continually learn, study.

7. I like all roasts but am increasingly tending towards medium and light on account of the fact that my palette is improving and more subtle flavours are starting to reveal themselves.

8. Buy local roastery coffee @£30 odd per kilo (so not skimping!)

9. Intend to keep the Super Jolly as can't afford to upgrade the grinder as well right now.

10. Prepared to invest in servicing etc but do want a proven reliable machine.

11. Want something that will grow with me.

thoughts?

thank you.

Chris


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## Dallah (Jan 31, 2015)

Best of luck deciding. Tough choice. I've always fancied a Vesuvius and they are such capable machines. It's the only one I have (about an hour) any hands on experience of. The Minima looks to be very capable buts design is devisive. I have a Lelit MaraX and can attest to their build quality as a brand and the vibe pump they share is the quietest I've ever heard. I'd probably play it safe and go with the Elizabeth and the two year warranty from BB.


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## danielpugh (Oct 26, 2016)

I still have my super jolly - it was great. The main downside for me was mess/waste which niche zero has fixed - sensible to stick with I'd say.

On machine - very handy to start simple and definitely very useful to have the warranty. You will learn as you use/maintain the machine, particularly if you are willing to get hands dirty. As machines get more complex/expensive combined with getting old (parts cost) can be painful. My first HX machine was much easier/simpler to live. In your position I'd opt for marax/Elizabeth.

That said I have a dual boiler with mains/rotary and couldn't go back (just to muddy water), although I miss the simplicity.


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

danielpugh - thanks to you and Dallah for your prompt responses. Re: SJ, I did the lens hood mod and it has worked a treat. I lose a little bit to retention but really not very much at all. Your advice to start simple suggests that the Minima is actually the machine to go with then? The Elizabeth has some electronic trickery, as I understand it, that supports preinfusion. The Minima is the simplest (?)DB E61 machine around at that price...? Also, whilst I've read loads on the forum about Vesuvius I've never been able to establish if the v1.0 Vesuvius (the version on sale right now in this forum) suffered from any early teething problems and if there are any significant reliability and functionality differences between V1, V2 - V3 machines. Does anyone have any more accurate knowledge on this subject?


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

I looked at all of these options and opted for the Elizabeth. If you are primarily more that one milk drink at a time, then it makes sense for the DB machine. I haven't looked back since the Liz arrived


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

@simplymeWhat is the quality of the output from the Elizabeth? My primary objective was to understand if I could get (close to) top end taste from the Minima or the Elizabeth? (I understand that the Vesuvius will provide amazing coffee but probably needs a higher end grinder than the SJ I have...) Are you wowed by the stuff your Elizabeth produces?


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

I've got a Liz and have been very impressed with it. One thing you might want to consider is boiler size - Liz is 300ml brew / 600ml steam; Minima is 800ml brew / 2.3l steam. With the amount of steaming you are proposing to do, maybe the bigger boilers would suit you better?

You can fit a flow control paddle onto your Minima so you've got the ability to get into that type of experimentation further down the line if that is the way life takes you.


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

But the Liz is fine for 2 coffees in the same session even with that size of boiler? I don't mind refilling at all within a session....


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## 27852 (Nov 8, 2020)

CoffeeAnon said:


> But the Liz is fine for 2 coffees in the same session even with that size of boiler? I don't mind refilling at all within a session....


 Yes, more than capable, the tank is 2.5l - I'm coming from a position of pure laziness and thinking about how many days you want to go between refills.


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## simplyme (Jan 2, 2020)

CoffeeAnon said:


> @simplymeWhat is the quality of the output from the Elizabeth? My primary objective was to understand if I could get (close to) top end taste from the Minima or the Elizabeth? (I understand that the Vesuvius will provide amazing coffee but probably needs a higher end grinder than the SJ I have...) Are you wowed by the stuff your Elizabeth produces?


 It is exceptional as you would expect from this price point. However it is the beans and the grinder that make the process of great tasting coffee. I am a fan of lighter roasts and the output is superb for me.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

I would save up a little get a Vesuvius, here goes I wish I never sold mine 🙄. I only sold because I needed the space @Karka
please sell it me back😂


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

Yeah, I'd go with the Vesuvius (I own a Vesuvius, I've not owned any of the others).


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Aidy said:


> Yeah, I'd go with the Vesuvius (I own a Vesuvius, I've not owned any of the others).


 I'd get the Vesuvius if I had the space, happy with E61 maintenance (I would not be deterred by that) and were happy with leaving the machine on all day, or plan for an espresso so the machine can heat up (the case with pretty much all E61 machines).

I have the Elizabeth, which heats up fast and requires no group maintenance (apart from backflushing and cleaning). The Vesuvius is a totally different class of machine, far superior than the others mentioned ere.

@CoffeeAnon - FYI.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I'd get the Vesuvius if I had the space, happy with E61 maintenance (I would not be deterred by that) and were happy with leaving the machine on all day, or plan for an espresso so the machine can heat up (the case with pretty much all E61 machines).


 Sort of assuming that if it's in the running then you have the space, but yes, it's not a small machine. Maintenance is probably easier on a Vesuvius than many other machines[0]; it comes apart beautifully - but it's a heavy beast, so relocating it to work on is an effort.

I reckon nearly every espresso machine will need 20 or so minutes to get the group head up to temperature, excepting those with heated groups.

[0] Maintenance isn't a big issue, you'll need to do some maintenance on anything if you own it long enough.


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## Karka (Dec 20, 2020)

Jony said:


> I would save up a little get a Vesuvius, here goes I wish I never sold mine 🙄. I only sold because I needed the space @Karka
> please sell it me back😂


 😂 😂 to be honest I'd consider selling it. Not because it's not amazing, just because I always like a change up. Being honest, the pressure profiling is lost on me 🤦🏼‍♂️


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Aidy said:


> I reckon nearly every espresso machine will need 20 or so minutes


 You are talking at least 40 minutes on a machine like the Vesuvius.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> You are talking at least 40 minutes on a machine like the Vesuvius.


 I think mine's generally up to temperature within 30, but I reckon once you're beyond a 10 minute warm up time, it's all the same. It's not convenient to turn it on as and when for a quick cup.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Aidy This is where the smart plug is your friend. I do think anyone who can make an attractive foam insulating nose for an E61, that was simply slipped into place.... could be on to a winner.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> @Aidy This is where the smart plug is your friend. I do think anyone who can make an attractive foam insulating nose for an E61, that was simply slipped into place.... could be on to a winner.


 Yeah, I've used smart plugs on coffee machines for years. Often turn it on when I'm 20 minutes away from getting home.

That's kinda my point though, as soon as you accept that you have to plan a little bit, and you can't just turn it on and go, the amount of time it takes to warm up is kinda moot.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Aidy said:


> Yeah, I've used smart plugs on coffee machines for years. Often turn it on when I'm 20 minutes away from getting home.
> 
> That's kinda my point though, as soon as you accept that you have to plan a little bit, and you can't just turn it on and go, the amount of time it takes to warm up is kinda moot.


 I completely understood your point.....what did you think of mine?


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

DavecUK said:


> I completely understood your point.....what did you think of mine?


 Yeah - sorry! I know you got it 

I'm intrigued by insulating the group head, I wonder how much difference it would actually make to the warm up time. If I can find sufficient spare time, I might experiment with it.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

The only machines that heat up that quickly are Sage's and some that use cartridge heaters in the group head. I have wondered about those but on the ones I am aware of there are some "odd" reports of problems. Not totally sure if these but a zoom in on a machine when it was working in a review didn't thrill me to bits.

I'd say Vesuvius if interested in pressure profiling and steaming milk. Used in my view means check it out carefully but a fully serviced machine shouldn't need that.

Things can be turned on via a mobile phone these days -  more expense though. I assume espresso machine can be. Tell it it's your 2nd central heating maybe.

TBH heat up time is likely to keep me with Sage. I do have an E61 to try - eventually.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Aidy said:


> Yeah - sorry! I know you got it
> 
> I'm intrigued by insulating the group head, I wonder how much difference it would actually make to the warm up time. If I can find sufficient spare time, I might experiment with it.


 It may well halve it or better. I believe with the right fit and insulation sub 15 minutes may be possible. It might also be possible to turn the machine off and within 2-3 hours achieve a warmup of sub 7 minutes.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Does the V *really* only takes 20 minutes to warm up to operational temperature? Does it overheat the group like the Lelits? I somewhat do not believe it.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ajohn said:


> The only machines that heat up that quickly are Sage's and some that use cartridge heaters in the group head.


 That's not true. Elizabeth is ready in 17 minutes. Profitec 300 20 mins. La Pavoni in... 7 minutes if you "dry-pump" the group, 12 if you don't. None have electrical cartridges in the group head.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Does the V *really* only takes 20 minutes to warm up to operational temperature? Does it overheat the group like the Lelits? I somewhat do not believe it.


 Yup, once it's all up and hot I had it set up to off in 2 hours automatically. And steam boiler when not in use.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Jony said:


> Yup, once it's all up and hot I had it set up to off in 2 hours automatically. And steam boiler when not in use.


 Fair enough. Thanks Jony, good to know.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> That's not true. Elizabeth is ready in 17 minutes. Profitec 300 20 mins. La Pavoni in... 7 minutes if you "dry-pump" the group, 12 if you don't. None have electrical cartridges in the group head.


 Sage DB ~3min max for steam as well. Scale in the steam boiler extend the time to steam. *a bit*. Some add time on to heat the portafilter but various "experiments" tell me no need. On some machines that it the last thing to get up to heat anyway as the group head needs to be hot to do it.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

ajohn said:


> Sage DB ~3min max for steam as well. Scale in the steam boiler extend the time to steam. *a bit*. Some add time on to heat the portafilter but various "experiments" tell me no need. On some machines that it the last thing to get up to heat anyway as the group head needs to be hot to do it.


 Are you saying that the Sage Dual boiler takes 3 minutes from cold to be ready to brew? That's impressive.


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Are you saying that the Sage Dual boiler takes 3 minutes from cold to be ready to brew? That's impressive.


 Yes and it is  then comes the worries we all know about. I just timed it from 17C, 3min but this time steam held off for another 30sec  It beeps and says no on that if not ready. It was descaled last week. I did check immediate steam after doing that but probably heat from the descale. Heating is rapid and then slows nearer temperature as would be expected. The only scace test I have seen is impressive.


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## Aidy (Jul 8, 2015)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Does the V *really* only takes 20 minutes to warm up to operational temperature? Does it overheat the group like the Lelits? I somewhat do not believe it.


 It's probably only about that. Definitely within 30. Can speed it up by cycling hot water through it. With a smart plug on it, I don't really care though, it's always ready when I want it to be.


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Doesn't really need a smart plug, I had it set up for different times of the day.


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

The warm up time of the Vesuvius puts me off a bit. We often have our coffee at different times. @DavecUK 's review of the Elizabeth mentioned how it costs very little to keep running all day, which is attractive.

@MediumRoastSteamyou mentioned that the Vesuvius is by far the superior machine. Is that because of the profiling feature or, in a blind taste test, would it be obvious how much better it was when compared to the Minima and Elizabeth? This is at the heart of my original question: which is the blow you away machine if you remove all the bells and whistles? Fundamentally I want to pull the 'God shot' or get as close as I can! Reliability comes second on the list. Maintenance third.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CoffeeAnon said:


> The warm up time of the Vesuvius puts me off a bit. We often have our coffee at different times. @DavecUK 's review of the Elizabeth mentioned how it costs very little to keep running all day, which is attractive.
> 
> @MediumRoastSteamyou mentioned that the Vesuvius is by far the superior machine. Is that because of the profiling feature or, in a blind taste test, would it be obvious how much better it was when compared to the Minima and Elizabeth? This is at the heart of my original question: which is the blow you away machine if you remove all the bells and whistles? Fundamentally I want to pull the 'God shot' or get as close as I can! Reliability comes second on the list. Maintenance third.


 I never had a coffee from the Vesuvius. But I did own an E61 machine before - well, two in fact.

The Elizabeth is an entry level dual boiler machine. Don't forget that. The boilers are small. However, the software on the machine is clever, as it keeps the steam ability right up there, combined with fast heat up times and two types of pre-infusion (steam and bloom). But that's about it.

If you want the god shot - get the V. You can configure all the pressure profiling stuff to your hearts content. You cannot do that with the Elizabeth. Therefore, you could argue that the V does everything the Elizabeth can, and a lot more.

But after all, you need to make a decision. You said you want the "god shot". The Elizabeth is a very capable machine, but with the V you can do more. For me, the decision making was simple: I have a very limited amount of space that I can use. The V doesn't fit, the MaraX fits barely, likewise the Bianca.

Honestly, the best advice I can give you here is for you to re-watch and re-read Dave's reviews of all those machines. Then try to see yourself using it, and see which one you'd like the most.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

The Vesuvius does so much more than a standard e61 with its pressure profiling abilities. You can mimic levers, have a profile for light beans, virtually any profile you like. Plus its repeatable, time after time. I have two Decents as well and the shots are superb on both machines. Bearing in mind that its been used every weekend to pull over 100 shots for over two years with zero issues. Despite being loaded / unloaded all the time - not an easy life for the poor machine. I had read about the power switch issues but almost all were 110V variants. Getting a God shot is not easy but at least with the profile options you have a road map to get there - just keep focussed and avoid the rabbit holes ! I have all three set up to deliver a lever style shot with long PI and all taste virtually identical, same grind for the same time and output. With the Decent it is just more visible and can do even more, profiles that adapt depending how the shot is going, stop at weight etc, etc...


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

Hi SteveBee, yes I read the articles Rincewind kindly pointed me to. PaoloC himself (ACS Vesuvius designer) actually interjected on one of these discussions, which I thought was great. Do you have any knowledge about the differences between V1,2,3 versions of the Vesuvius?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

Not really, Paolo or DaveCUK would be your best bet. I think V2 had stainless pipework and small part change internally but the bones of the machine have all remained the same I believe. I have stainless pipework on mine but not sure if its a real upgrade as the standard pipework is preferred by some whilst others find it trickier to change. The frame and case on the Vesuvius are VERY solid.


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

@Stevebeei did some more looking and found (I think) an answer to my question about the differences between early amd later Vesuvius machines:

*
Early Production Adjustments
*

The early production runs of Vesuvius machines had a few issues with them that were not abnormal to any first generation product. Some early machines originally shipped with an undersized plug, which caused a few electrical issues, and was addressed relatively quickly. The Vesuvius and some other high-end machines used a pump that wasn't capable of maintaining pressure. This was a flaw of the pump manufacturer, not the machine, and has since been addressed.

An updated version of the Vesuvius has been shipping for some time now, which includes those fixes, along with a few other improvements. This includes more robust vacuum breakers, an improved water detection sensor, and using metal tubing in place of PTFE tubing.'

https://engineering-espresso.com/2019/03/31/hello-vesuvius/


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

Also, I saw something on another forum about how the Lelit Bianca could produce comparable shots to the Vesuvius but without the automation the V provides. Has anyone done a taste test side by side of these two machines?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

CoffeeAnon said:


> Also, I saw something on another forum about how the Lelit Bianca could produce comparable shots to the Vesuvius but without the automation the V provides. Has anyone done a taste test side by side of these two machines?


 That sounds about right as it controls the shot via the paddle. For me, that was not what I was looking for. The thought of nailing a great shot and then having to tweak the paddle exactly the same to repeat it would personally drive me mad😁 but many prefer to manipulate the shot like that. The V uses a magnetic gear pump I think Bianca rotary


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@CoffeeAnon as with all things partially true. The pump statement is either badly phrased, or the author is unaware of the problem.



> The Vesuvius and some other high-end machines used a pump that wasn't capable of maintaining pressure. This was a flaw of the pump manufacturer, not the machine, and has since been addressed.


 This is inaccurate. The pump was fine, there is a cheaper version of the pump, but none of the machine manufacturer's used it. The pump is from FluidoTech the induction motor from Cruzet... magnetically coupled. Giving a very long life.

The problem was simply the potting of the magnet within the drive. On a batch of magentic rotors it wasn't complete and corrosion on exposure to the atmosphere gradually affected the magnetic properties. The rare earth magnets were chosen for low coercion and high field strength but needed sealing from the atmosphere.

The symptom was a pump that was initially fine and in a year or so would gradually hit a lower and lower pressure. So it was not apparent in testing. Also, only some pumps were affected.The fix was to replace the magnetic rotor within the drive. A simple procedure.

Alol those pumps that may have had a badly potted rotor worked through the system at FluidoTech more 4 years ago....the problem was never the suitability of the pump. FOT felt it was easier to send a few replacement magnetic rotors than recall a huge number of pumps that would all test OK. I have a new rotor somewhere and will take a photo if I remember.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Vesuvius vs. Synchronika (mainly for espressos) which and why?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> Vesuvius vs. Synchronika (mainly for espressos) which and why?


 Vesuvius - it starts where the Synchronika ends. Strange question. Completely different machines. Simple answer. Now if you put the Decent in there ...


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

I got the opportunity to acquire both (second hand) and I didn't know WHICH so (I know, I know) I bought them both and now I have the joy-and-pain of deciding which one to keep (I'll sell the other...)


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

@MediumRoastSteamre: your Elizabeth- can you get shots that make you smile, the kind we used to get from fancy cafes produced by the ubiquitous bearded barista? The kind you never resent paying £3 for. The kind that makes the day start well. Sorry to get all poetic but that's how the brown stuff can make me feel (my wife does laugh at me!!)


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

@StevebeeI just specced up the entry level Decent and it came out at £4.1k! That won't be happening then for as long as I wish to remain (happily) married.

@DavecUKthanks for clarifying the Vesuvius pump issue. Also, do you know why Bella Barista stopped selling the Vesuvius and Minima? The only retailer I could find selling the V was cafeboxshifta (Italia) and I know the forum members in the know recommend that one doesn't purchase high end machines from such outfits.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@CoffeeAnon You will have to ask them.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

CoffeeAnon said:


> @StevebeeI just specced up the entry level Decent and it came out at £4.1k! That won't be happening then for as long as I wish to remain (happily) married.


 I thought it was £3,500 for the 1.4 pro, although the cheapest available for the next 6 months is the XL so maybe thats the reason for the diff. Still divorce level though 😒


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

the magnet in the FOT gear pump.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

CoffeeAnon said:


> @MediumRoastSteamre: your Elizabeth- can you get shots that make you smile, the kind we used to get from fancy cafes produced by the ubiquitous bearded barista? The kind you never resent paying £3 for. The kind that makes the day start well. Sorry to get all poetic but that's how the brown stuff can make me feel (my wife does laugh at me!!)


 Definitely. The Elizabeth makes me smile every day. I makes an amazing cup, I have to say. The pre infusion feature is excellent. Now... is the Lizzy better than a V... I don't know, never had a drink from a V. But I bet it isn't.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

So I added a thermometer to the grouphead.. and unsurpsingly it reads a few degrees lower than the LCD display suggests: anyone else tried this?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> So I added a thermometer to the grouphead.. and unsurpsingly it reads a few degrees lower than the LCD display suggests: anyone else tried this?


 Will this not depend on where the other measurement is being read from?


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Well presumably a reading from deep inside the grouphead is pretty definitive? I'm wondering should I change the offset on the LCD to match the thermometer?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> Well presumably a reading from deep inside the grouphead is pretty definitive? I'm wondering should I change the offset on the LCD to match the thermometer?


 @davecuk will confirm where the lcd pid is situated and presumably will allow for offsets, but I maybe totally wrong!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@GrahamSPhillips when I test a machine, I check the temperature of the brew water hitting the coffee.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @GrahamSPhillips when I test a machine, I check the temperature of the brew water hitting the coffee.


 I bow to your superior knowledge! I don't have that option so what's next best on the V? The PID temp or the grouphead thermometer temp? Thanks @DavecUK


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@GrahamSPhillips If you have all the settings as they should be...the PID temp.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @GrahamSPhillips If you have all the settings as they should be...the PID temp.


 I've not changed anything (albeit the machine was second hand from this site) so I'm assuming "yes".. Thanks


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@GrahamSPhillips You could always check them, in case someones been a fiddlin.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @GrahamSPhillips You could always check them, in case someones been a fiddlin.


 Yeah: will check - ie offset is at the factory setting - yes?


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

GrahamSPhillips said:


> Yeah: will check - ie offset is at the factory setting - yes?


 Unless the previous owner changed it


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## CoffeeAnon (Jun 9, 2020)

Vesuvius fast warm: Bella Barrista old web page for the V states that 'fast warm' was going to be shipped in retail machines. Is this the case? @DavecUK Would you happen to know what the warm up time is for the V?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

CoffeeAnon said:


> Vesuvius fast warm: Bella Barrista old web page for the V states that 'fast warm' was going to be shipped in retail machines. Is this the case? @DavecUK Would you happen to know what the warm up time is for the V?


 Never got added, about 30-35m.


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

I have a grouphead thermometer on mine .. @DavecUK is bang on based on what it reads


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## kennyho (Jun 15, 2021)

DavecUK said:


> @CoffeeAnon as with all things partially true. The pump statement is either badly phrased, or the author is unaware of the problem.
> 
> This is inaccurate. The pump was fine, there is a cheaper version of the pump, but none of the machine manufacturer's used it. The pump is from FluidoTech the induction motor from Cruzet... magnetically coupled. Giving a very long life.
> 
> ...


 Hi Dave,

You seem very familiar with fluid o tech magnetic pump. I have a ACS Vesuvius machine and it can only push out 5 bar of pressure. I can hear the pump builds up pressure in the first 5 second and pump starts struggle after 5s & on (pressure cant never go over 5 bars.) Do you think this could be bad magnetic rotor. Please advise.

Thanks

Kenny


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

kennyho said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> You seem very familiar with fluid o tech magnetic pump. I have a ACS Vesuvius machine and it can only push out 5 bar of pressure. I can hear the pump builds up pressure in the first 5 second and pump starts struggle after 5s & on (pressure cant never go over 5 bars.) Do you think this could be bad magnetic rotor. Please advise.
> 
> ...


 I would imagine it is the magnet rotor....... How old is the machine?


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## kennyho (Jun 15, 2021)

Dave,

Thanks for your response. I attached the operation of the machine. As you can hear , pump is pumping up in first 5s and struggle the rest of it. It is a 2016 machine.

Thanks

Kenny


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The procedure to replace the magnet is here. If you ask your retailer, they may provide one free of charge.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vesuvius/how-to-replace-defective-magnets-in-the-pump-for-a-t226.html


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