# Rancilio Silvia E + Rancilio Rocky Grinder - HELP!



## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

Hi guys - wondering if you could help us trouble shoot this machine a little. (Rancilio Silvia E with Rancilio Rocky Grinder.)

For we feel there is something significantly wrong with it.

For the past 2 weeks (since we received it) we have been trying to get good results.

We have been temperature surfacing in all different ways. Grinding down to the lowest finest setting possible and are still experiencing really fast (5 seconds) flows and virtually zero creama. Obviously there is something not right. I have not touched anything else in or on the machine as yet..

Any suggestions on for what to do next?

Thanks


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

sdmc303 said:


> Hi guys - wondering if you could help us trouble shoot this machine a little. (Rancilio Silvia E with Rancilio Rocky Grinder.)
> For we feel there is something significantly wrong with it. For the past 2 weeks (since we received it) we have been trying to get good results. We have been temperature surfacing in all different ways. Grinding down to the lowest finest setting possible and are still experiencing really fast (5 seconds) flows and virtually zero creama. Obviously there is something not right. I have not touched anything else in or on the machine as yet.. Any suggestions on for what to do next? Thanks


Which coffee are you using? Where did you buy it from? Are you purging the grinder? I.e.: throwing away the first 8g before a session? How are you preparing the basket? Are you using a double basket? How much coffee are you putting into it? How are you tamping?


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Which coffee are you using? Where did you buy it from? Are you purging the grinder? I.e.: throwing away the first 8g before a session? How are you preparing the basket? Are you using a double basket? How much coffee are you putting into it? How are you tamping?


 Hi and thanks for input..

We are using average beans from Italy.. No small indi roasters around here..

Purging not really but will try (doubtful its having the kind of impact we are experiences but yeah)..

around 16g of coffee in double basket and tampered with correct stainless steel tamper.

Hope that helps.. I'm convinced it's the pressure valve needing adjustment but it is a new machine..


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

sdmc303 said:


> Hi and thanks for input..
> We are using average beans from Italy.. No small indi roasters around here..
> Purging not really but will try (doubtful its having the kind of impact we are experiences but yeah)..
> around 16g of coffee in double basket and tampered with correct stainless steel tamper.
> Hope that helps.. I'm convinced it's the pressure valve needing adjustment but it is a new machine..


I very much doubt it.

I bet it's your "average beans from Italy".

Where are you based? Are you in the UK? If so, you can order them online.

Make sure you use freshly roasted beans. Also, make sure your basket is levelled and dosed correctly.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Brew pressure at 8.5 bar static, use fresh beans.


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks guys!

We're in Italy actually.. Just moved down.

There is a decent cafe near by - I could ask for fresher beans from them.

BUT.. (time for a wee rant)
..seems like a of a lot of effort (time+money etc) to scrape out a good coffee from an expensive machine..no?

It's like once you start..you are dragged into another expense.. then another.. then another.

We assumed investing in a good machine would eliminate this.

Please excuse our ignorance.. we are new to this level of home brewing but are kind of being put off a little.

- like we have fallen for some posh fad..that drains your wallet. Sorry.. hopefully you can understand our frustration here.

RANT OVER 

We will try some fresher/better beans asap and report back. In the meantime I'll let the machine warm up


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

Again.. Apologies for the post above.

Clearly we are frustrated at what we are experiencing after what we have invested into it..

Anyone would be.

Appreciating all the input.

Thank you


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

sdmc303 said:


> Again.. Apologies for the post above.
> 
> Clearly we are frustrated at what we are experiencing after what we have invested into it..


 Realistically you have bought a low end espresso machine and a grinder that is well beyond it's sell by date...the RR is not a great grinder. If you add this combination to poor quality/stale beans, then it's not going to give great results. The best thing you can do is get better coffee that is fresh e.g. roasted within the last month. Persevere with the Rocky grinder until you can get something better and *post a video of your shot technique from grind to tamp to producing the shot.*

You will then get more useful feedback.

P.S. I have tested some Silvias, but declined to produce a review!


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

UPDATE:

I have just gone and picked up some "fresher" beans from local cafe. They gave me a sample to test - very kind of them.

I then went and did the full routine of a 30 minute machine warm up. Followed by a water flush till the light came back on. (for temperature surfacing)

Then waited 30 seconds before pulling the shot. In the meantime I had the new fresher beans grinding on the finest setting and used 8g's in a single basket.

Tampered firmly and cleaned off the edges. Went for the poor and had exactly the same results as previous attempts.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Probably your Rocky doesn't grind fine enough for espresso as it should. Is it new?
Zero point can be calibrated as well:


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

make the video


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

DavecUK said:


> make the video


 All 37 minutes of it?


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

> 1 hour ago, L&R said:
> 
> Probably your Rocky doesn't grind fine enough for espresso as it should. Is it new?
> Zero point can be calibrated as well:


 Thank you.. This was my next thought as well. It is second hand - yes..

But seems in great condition. I will try this and report back.

Also, you see and hear of lots of folk over the years having great success with these two machines. For those of us on some kind of budget - anyways..


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

sdmc303 said:


> Thank you.. This was my next thought as well. It is second hand - yes..
> 
> But seems in great condition. I will try this and report back.
> 
> Also, you see and hear of lots of folk over the years having great success with these two machines. For those of us on some kind of budget - anyways..


 The video only needs to be grinding, pulling the shot, so we can see what you are doing....are you saying it takes 37m to make a shot?

The people who have great success with the combination you have, usually have not used anything else, so they speak from their particular frame of reference. Unfortunately they are not all chiming in to help you are they?

A photo of the burrs of your grinder would be good because it's possible you need replacement burrs. Unless you know how old it is and where it has been used (e.g. in a small cafe?)


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

DavecUK said:


> Also, you see and hear of lots of folk over the years having great success with these two machines. For those of us on some kind of budget - anyways..


 It does seem that it will grind to espresso levels if it's adjusted correctly so the video should help. When you clean it all up the thread on the top burr carrier should be greased. Getting the correct grease isn't that easy so some people have used a very thin smear of unflavoured lip salve. That's probably a better option than typical silicone grease.

Personally I wouldn't replace the burrs unless they are obviously worn or chipped. Problem with new burrs is that they need to grind a significant quantity of beans at espresso levels before they preform as they should.

John

-


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

sdmc303 said:


> Thank you.. This was my next thought as well. It is second hand - yes..
> But seems in great condition. I will try this and report back.
> Also, you see and hear of lots of folk over the years having great success with these two machines. For those of us on some kind of budget - anyways..


Rocky burrs are quite soft so you'll probably find yours are worn & need replacing. They're not that expensive though & with a new set you'll know they're as good as they can be.


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

Thanks guys. .

So I took the Rocky apart this afternoon and cleaned it all out. Removed the burs and cleaned them too.

Unfortunately I did all this before seeing the comment regarding Greasing it.. I did have a moment before putting it back together where i thought that would be a good idea.. oh well.

I re-calibrated it also.. Tested another shot and there was a slight improvement. Was able to pour for almost 20 secs and got a small amount of creama on top this time too.

Is everyone advising against the idea that it could also be a pressure adjustment change that could help?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

First of all sort your grinder, probably new burrs are needed, this grinder has to choke the machine at its finest settings, this is your main problem.

BR


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

Ignore any comments on the Silvia being a 'low end machine' and the Rocky being far from great. That setup is very capable if in the hands of somebody that knows how to maximize it. I've had machines from low end home to 2-3 group commercial and the Silvia is a VERY capable machine once you have it dialed in. I will say it's the most unforgiving machine likely ever made, but will crank out superb espresso once you figure it out. Same with the Rocky... yes it's quite old, but still a very capable espresso quality grinder. There is NO need to spend thousands for great espresso at home regardless of what some want you to believe. Main thing based on your posts is likely the coffee as if you don't have quality/FRESH coffee nothing else really changes for the better.

Edit... just read about the Rocky being second hand and the burrs could be an issue, but new burrs, a good cleaning and getting it zero'd will have it performing like new. I've owned a Rocky and have ran quite a few other home-commercial grinders and the Rocky should serve you well.


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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

shadow745 said:


> Ignore any comments on the Silvia being a 'low end machine' and the Rocky being far from great. That setup is very capable if in the hands of somebody that knows how to maximize it. I've had machines from low end home to 2-3 group commercial and the Silvia is a VERY capable machine once you have it dialed in. I will say it's the most unforgiving machine likely ever made, but will crank out superb espresso once you figure it out. Same with the Rocky... yes it's quite old, but still a very capable espresso quality grinder. There is NO need to spend thousands for great espresso at home regardless of what some want you to believe. Main thing based on your posts is likely the coffee as if you don't have quality/FRESH coffee nothing else really changes for the better.


 Thank You!

Couldn't agree more..

This is why I purchased both these machines. You are absolutely right about them being unforgiving though. This is where most my frustration is coming from.

So many variables to get things right. I have ordered some new Burs for the Rocky and a flat screw shower screen for the Silvia.

This - along with fresher/better beans should start showing improvements.

The PID from meCoffee should step it up a notch too  ..thoughts?

Thanks


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## shadow745 (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes new burrs will really get it going in the right direction. Saw the reply regarding purging 8 grams before each use, which is unnecessary and very wasteful. I modified the Rocky I had with a funnel in the hopper that fed beans straight into the burrs so nothing got left behind on the burr carrier lip, which happens with lots of flat burr grinders. I also put Industrial Velcro strips (not the fuzzy side) on the bottom of each doser vane. Those 2 mods really minimized retention. At the end of each daily use I'd sweep the chute (from the grind chamber to the doser) out and use that bit for the last double. Then would give the top of burrs and doser chamber a quick touch up with a handheld vac. Took maybe 1 min and all said and done I was losing only .5 gram daily, which I'd say is quite awesome and that little bit of cleaning left me with a like-new grinder every morning. No need to let coffee sit in the grinder overnight, then purge, etc. Just a waste!

I can't comment on that particular PID, although I did install a quality Auber on mine not long ago. Before that I had absolutely no problems getting mine dialed in for every extraction via time/temp surfing. Only real reason I installed the PID is that I was going to replace the thermostats anyway and figured something all electronic would/should last much longer than the stock thermostats. The PID eliminates having to do flush/wait routines and definitely minimizes pump wear and saves a bit of electricity/water. The end result is no better than a non-PID Silvia, just get great results with less effort and time wasted. I've read good things on the meCoffee's performance, but not so much good on the customer service. I personally like the Auber as it's a high quality kit and the customer service is top notch if ever needed. Doesn't bother me that mine is on the machine exterior as I'm not one to have to live with my phone inhand to dial something in like some PIDs require.


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## Nikko (Aug 20, 2014)

Your are on the right track getting new burrs. Checking the pressure should be the next step - reducing it slightly to 7 barg may help to reduce the risk of channeling. Avoid the single basket due to difficulty of tamping well.

A few turns of teflon tape applied to the upper burr carrier will reduce any slack.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Hello, I'm one of those people who used to use the Silvia/Rocky combination and who didn't chime in... Really sorry... I'm new here and haven't been paying close enough attention. Must Try Harder. For what it's worth I agree with the advice you've received. I would definitely have suspected the Rocky in the first instance, and with the advice you've received, that's exactly what you've done. I used my Rocky for perhaps six or seven years; it wasn't the easiest grinder to work with because the stepped adjustment is quite clunky and a single step can have several seconds' impact on extraction time. I seem to remember always being on a setting close to the finest grind the Rocky could produce. I never had any issues with my v1 Silvia though: you did need to work to get to grips with it, and temperature surfing could be a pain if you were in any kind of hurry, but I had mine forever and did eventually retro-fit a US-supplied PID with good results. I will keep an eye out for any other updates from you and will chip in if I can help at all.

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## sdmc303 (Oct 1, 2019)

UPDATE:

Thanks for the input guys. Very helpful and grateful for the info.. I am still waiting for the burrs to arrive and am heading away - so i'll update early in the year. In the meantime I have found some better/fresher beans locally and there has been improvements. I will also test the pressure when I get the chance.

Thanks again


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## AmateurEspresso (Jul 6, 2020)

How'd you get on


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## demoniq (Jun 22, 2021)

Hi guys,

I'm also using this setup and I'm afraid I have the exact same issue... on the Rockys finest setting, I still can't get a decent shot and most definitely am far away from choking the Silvia.

I mean - my espressos are 15 seconds TOPS.

I'm thinking of replacing the burrs as well - although the man I bought it from said the burrs were replaced last year.


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## profesor_historia (Sep 1, 2020)

demoniq said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I'm also using this setup and I'm afraid I have the exact same issue... on the Rockys finest setting, I still can't get a decent shot and most definitely am far away from choking the Silvia.
> 
> ...


 Don't trust 100% what the seller says, just change the burrs as they're cheap and if not happy then a second hand comercial grinder will do, I had several Silvias during the years but always paired with a comercial grade grinders.


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## 28267 (Dec 8, 2020)

@demoniq - how has the zero point been set? The zero setting is a bit arbitrary on that grinder and could just be down to how the previous owner reassembled it.

Does it look like the burrs are close to touching when on zero? When you reach zero their is a screw that Stops it turning further so you may be way off the touching point if it has not been setup correctly. It is probably worth popping the hopper off and checking how close the burrs are. There are some good videos on calibration of Rocky burrs on YouTube.

Rocky was based on a commercial grinder and the burrs should be good for many years. If the above doesn't fix it then getting new burrs would be next thing. I don't think you can get OEM ones in the U.K. at the moment but compatible ones are available quite cheaply.


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## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

I definitely think the grinder is the issue. I've got a v6 Silvia, initially coupled with an aergrind and more recently a niche. Both of these grinders we're able to go fine enough to get good extraction times. I have added a PID and dropped the pressure a bit, but these tweaks increased repeatability and made the workflow easier, they didn't really effect the flow rate.

Good luck


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