# Coffee Compass 'issues'



## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

I'm due to make an order for some coffee soon, and I was planning on trying Coffee Compass .

Last time I ordered from them was over a year ago and I was happy.

Recently I have been reading here that some people have been having issues with their coffee? Is this still the case, or is everything "back to normal"?


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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

not sure what you are referring to?

recent threads all seem positive and people recommending frequently.

my own experience has been positive - i received a 8 pack selection recently (first order with them) very quick, roasted on one day, posted and received the next.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Perhaps I am thinking of some slightly older reference, where their coffee seemed to be inconsistent?

My bad if that's not an issue any more.


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## matted (Sep 30, 2019)

sorry, can't help with that personally. will let others with more experience offer opinions.


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

I think there was some issue last summer related to exceptionally warm weather or something. There's no issues at the moment that I'm aware of.

Their delivery is so quick! Ordered the Sweet Bourbon blend the 9th, roasted on the 10th, delivered to me on the 11th, chilled on Sunday. Haven't tried yet, beans are still resting.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

The only other issue I'm aware of is when the current mystery bag first came out, they weren't happy with the profile so sent out replacement bags.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Ok, I'm obviously way out of date, some may say stale ?

Apologies all.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

I recently ordered from them and received my order within 2 days, roasted the day previous to receiving (ie date of postage) and very happy with their service.


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Same here, basically ^^^^what he said!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

I've never ever been let down in any way by Coffee Compass. Excellent Company - coffee - service.

Very consistant with all beans I've ever had from them over the years


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

This must have been a fairly isolated incident that stood out in my head for some reason then.


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

Dr Forinor said:


> This must have been a fairly isolated incident that stood out in my head for some reason then.


It was me that mentioned the sweet bourbon wasn't as nice on my (new to me) Alex Duetto compared to my old PID Gaggia Classic and I queried if the roast was not as good, interestingly one or two others chimed in and felt the weather might have had an effect.

I've not tried the sweet bourbon again as we hit up the Mahogany Malabar roast lately.

I've not tried anyone else to compare (on the subscription 1.5kg coffee delivered comes in at 25 shiney liney pounds) but their service is awesome. I always use it fresh and don't rest the beans

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

Ah that's what it was, thank you for replying.


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Follow up on this, maybe it's nothing though.

I finished yesterday the 500gr of the excellent Malabar, and after carefully defrosting the Sweet Bourbon, started putting it through its paces, dialing it in.

The roast date on the Malabar was the 11th, and for the Bourbon the 13th, hence the bourbon spending 4 days doublebaged in the freezer.

The problem I've been having is that, no matter the grind setting I choose, no matter the basket make or size, no matter the preparation (wdt, rdt, just dump in and compress), this batch is either bitter or when I go the other direction, watery and flavorless.

I have tried with 150gr worth of coffee, making shots with anywhere between 17 and 18.5 in basket, and 1:1 to 1:3 yields, and between 15 and 40sec pulls.

There is either something wrong with this batch, or my SJ is dying..., yet all of the Malabar was flawless, took me 2 shots to dial it in.

If anyone has similar roast date for their Sweet Bourbon, can you please let me know if it's just me having issues?


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## truegrace (Jan 29, 2014)

Not from this date, however had some roasted a few weeks prior which was fine through the niche, lovely body and taste at 1:2 ratio at about 36 secs (including 7 secs preinfusion)


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

truegrace said:


> Not from this date, however had some roasted a few weeks prior which was fine through the niche, lovely body and taste at 1:2 ratio at about 36 secs (including 7 secs preinfusion)


 Thanks mate, same for me, had a bag a few weeks ago which was awesome, and the reason I ordered again. This one however...


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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

ArisP said:


> Follow up on this, maybe it's nothing though.
> 
> I finished yesterday the 500gr of the excellent Malabar, and after carefully defrosting the Sweet Bourbon, started putting it through its paces, dialing it in.
> 
> ...


 500g of Bourbon roasted on the 10th. All good here.


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

ArisP said:


> Thanks mate, same for me, had a bag a few weeks ago which was awesome, and the reason I ordered again. This one however...


This is what I experienced. So glad it's not just me - on my classic with unpressurised basket it was awesome pretty much every batch. On my Alex, rough.

I wonder if they've had to source a new supplier for the raw beans or something?

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## Gavin (Mar 30, 2014)

Interestingly I always seem to get a LOAD of crema from all the CC blends i have dabled with. No idea why....


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Gavin said:


> Interestingly I always seem to get a LOAD of crema from all the CC blends i have dabled with. No idea why....


 Perhaps, but crema means absolutely nothing. You could just be seeing CO2 bubbles.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

ArisP said:


> Thanks mate, same for me, had a bag a few weeks ago which was awesome, and the reason I ordered again. This one however...


 Have you considered that the act of freezing may have an impact on the issues you are experiencing (it may not but equally you may have introduced a variable ), just a thought.

John


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

johnealey said:


> Have you considered that the act of freezing may have an impact on the issues you are experiencing (it may not but equally you may have introduced a variable ), just a thought.
> 
> John


 Hey John,

Yes, very good point. I do not consider it as a variable, as I froze the previous batch too, and that one behaved great. Now could there have been another micro-variable, maybe a tear in the external freezer bag or something like that....maybe.

I am also considering that I went from a mix of Volvic + Ashbeck at 50:50 ratio, to 100% Ashbeck, so that might also influencing the flavor.

Clearly I don't run a lab, so like I said before, it could just be me, hence asking for other people's experiences.


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

ArisP said:


> Hey John,
> Yes, very good point. I do not consider it as a variable, as I froze the previous batch too, and that one behaved great. Now could there have been another micro-variable, maybe a tear in the external freezer bag or something like that....maybe.
> I am also considering that I went from a mix of Volvic + Ashbeck at 50:50 ratio, to 100% Ashbeck, so that might also influencing the flavor.
> Clearly I don't run a lab, so like I said before, it could just be me, hence asking for other people's experiences.


Interestingly I never used Ashbeck in my Classic (Bristol tap!) yet I do in the Alex.

I wonder if the water is not good for the coffee?

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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

brokentechie said:


> Interestingly I never used Ashbeck in my Classic (Bristol tap!) yet I do in the Alex.
> 
> I wonder if the water is not good for the coffee?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


 It could be, I'll test tomorrow with Volvic and see if that is the cause. I find that I seem to be quite sensitive to water flavor, perhaps because I didn't grow up here.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

ArisP said:


> Thanks mate, same for me, had a bag a few weeks ago which was awesome, and the reason I ordered again. This one however...


 I had a batch recently and as I was using the Gusto Gold first, I double bagged and froze the Sweet Bourbon. The Gusto was excellent, easy to dial in and gave me a 1:2 in 28 seconds with great crema and a nice rounded rich flavour. The Sweet Bourbon on the other hand was difficult to dial in and seems bitter no-matter the grind setting. I started using the same grind setting on my Mazzer SJ (4.3) as for the Gusto. It shot out in 11 seconds and had a bitter after taste. I increased the grind two notches and it came out 32 secs quite bitter with black streaks in the crema. I then set it in between and whilst it gave a double shot in 28 or 29 seconds, the black streaks had gone but it is still a bit bitter. I had defrosted by emptying the beans into my beansaver tin and leaving in a cool space overnight. I've probably wasted 80 or 90gr of beans trying to get it dialled in but probably won't order this one again. The Gusto was much better imho. I don't know if freezing the beans should cause these issues?


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Bica60s said:


> I had a batch recently and as I was using the Gusto Gold first, I double bagged and froze the Sweet Bourbon. The Gusto was excellent, easy to dial in and gave me a 1:2 in 28 seconds with great crema and a nice rounded rich flavour. The Sweet Bourbon on the other hand was difficult to dial in and seems bitter no-matter the grind setting. I started using the same grind setting on my Mazzer SJ (4.3) as for the Gusto. It shot out in 11 seconds and had a bitter after taste. I increased the grind two notches and it came out 32 secs quite bitter with black streaks in the crema. I then set it in between and whilst it gave a double shot in 28 or 29 seconds, the black streaks had gone but it is still a bit bitter. I had defrosted by emptying the beans into my beansaver tin and leaving in a cool space overnight. I've probably wasted 80 or 90gr of beans trying to get it dialled in but probably won't order this one again. The Gusto was much better imho. I don't know if freezing the beans should cause these issues?


 Sounds exactly like my experience. Do you happen to remember the roast date of the Sweet bourbon?


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

Yes. It was early January (this month).


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Bica60s said:


> Yes. It was early January (this month).


 Mine was the 13th. Another member who had a batch roasted on the 10th said they had no issues.

Do you know the exact date of your roast?


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## AJSK66 (Jun 3, 2019)

I've just had a bag of sweet bourbon roasted on the 24th but I'm waiting at least a week until I give it a go. Shame about these apparent inconsistencies

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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

ArisP said:


> Mine was the 13th. Another member who had a batch roasted on the 10th said they had no issues.
> 
> Do you know the exact date of your roast?


 Just looked and it was on 11th. My other order from them was fine and was much better after a week de-gassing.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

Tried another brew this morning, and the beans seem all over the place! It took me three shots to dial in the (excellent) Gusto Gold. These sweet bourbon just seem very inconsistent. I thought I'd got them dialled in yesterday after adjusting the grind a fraction coarser. First shot this morning with everything done exactly the same and the machine couldn't pump at pressure high enough to get anything from the portafilter so adjusted coarser still...now the grind feels a little gritty between the fingers, definitely coarser than I'd normally grind, and it took 35 seconds to get a double Ristretto. something's not right. I had better check my OP valve as the first attempt may have done something needing a reset as it was running a long time against backpressure. I won't be buying sweet bourbon again.


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

Bica60s said:


> Tried another brew this morning, and the beans seem all over the place! It took me three shots to dial in the (excellent) Gusto Gold. These sweet bourbon just seem very inconsistent. I thought I'd got them dialled in yesterday after adjusting the grind a fraction coarser. First shot this morning with everything done exactly the same and the machine couldn't pump at pressure high enough to get anything from the portafilter so adjusted coarser still...now the grind feels a little gritty between the fingers, definitely coarser than I'd normally grind, and it took 35 seconds to get a double Ristretto. something's not right. I had better check my OP valve as the first attempt may have done something needing a reset as it was running a long time against backpressure. I won't be buying sweet bourbon again.


 Can you do a visual check on the beans before grinding them?

I recall noticing significant variation in bean size uniformity, and less significant variation in roast level (based on color)


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

Roast looks fine to me and size seems quite consistent. Perhaps it's just they're not the beans for me. I was sort of expecting, as the name suggests, a sweeter more rounded flavour but I find these really quite bitter tasting, at least this batch. Been up and down the grinder settings and it only takes a fractional change in grind setting on the SJ to go from too coarse and a double shot in under 20 seconds to bitter and 30 secs. I will persevere though as I do have a lot to get through! In fairness to Compass, whose service is excellent, I'll give them another go, but I'm really surprised at just how little the grind size needs to change to alter them....very little leaway. I strongly suspect that this might be the real issue...very fussy on grind. Not so the Gusto.


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

Bica60s said:


> Roast looks fine to me and size seems quite consistent. Perhaps it's just they're not the beans for me. I was sort of expecting, as the name suggests, a sweeter more rounded flavour but I find these really quite bitter tasting, at least this batch. Been up and down the grinder settings and it only takes a fractional change in grind setting on the SJ to go from too coarse and a double shot in under 20 seconds to bitter and 30 secs. I will persevere though as I do have a lot to get through! In fairness to Compass, whose service is excellent, I'll give them another go, but I'm really surprised at just how little the grind size needs to change to alter them....very little leaway.


Coffee compass generally are excellent, and I think one of the best value roasters out there.

Try the Mahogany Malabar, we love it. On the back of your posts I'm also getting a pack of gusto gold in my next subscription...

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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

brokentechie said:


> Coffee compass generally are excellent, and I think one of the best value roasters out there.
> 
> Try the Mahogany Malabar, we love it. On the back of your posts I'm also getting a pack of gusto gold in my next subscription...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


 Thanks, I'll give the Mahogany Malabar a go next order with them. Yes, fully agree about Compass...excellent service and value. Another recent one I tried was from Rave, their single origin Colombian Suarez Project beans....absolutely fab roast, really rich, well rounded with full caramel flavour and a slight sweetness that lingered for a long while. I found them best after almost two weeks from roasting.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

I'm on Brighton Lanes espresso, roast 16/01; looking for a 'classic' espresso which cuts through milk. By classic I mean no acidity, just bold, bitter and chocolatey. Definitely getting that profile and not experienced any issues in terms of inconsistency from one shot to the next. I've settled on 18g in, 20sec pre-infusion at 2 bar then ramp to 6.5 bar until 40g. Brilliant, bitter but smooth and reminds me almost of affogato.

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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

I love the dark roasted coffee's from these guys but I have also had issues with quality...

The drop-off for me started around September last year, it was quite noticeable on a number of bags I purchased, no aroma when I opened the bag and very little aroma once ground, this followed through to the extraction that was bland and lacked depth. Even Mrs NikonGuy asked me If I had changed the coffee supplier or used old beans! All beans rested for 7 days before use.

Maybe the company has changed hands...


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

I can't comment on any previous issues save to say their service has been excellent and it's odd that just this blend (so far) seems to have missed the mark for me. I get a little acidity and too much unpleasant after taste bitterness although the initial taste is full with some sweetness now I've (finally!!!) dialled it in. I did notice on opening this bag that the aroma was feint compared with the Gusto which was more "in your face" as soon as the bag was opened. The grind also lacks much aroma for the Sweet Bourbon, unlike the Gusto.

All said and done, I ventured into the cafe at Gloucester hospital on one of my regular visits recently, and chanced a Costa Americano. Couldn't finish it...utterly appalling bitter swill!


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

NikonGuy said:


> I love the dark roasted coffee's from these guys but I have also had issues with quality...
> 
> The drop-off for me started around September last year, it was quite noticeable on a number of bags I purchased, no aroma when I opened the bag and very little aroma once ground, this followed through to the extraction that was bland and lacked depth. Even Mrs NikonGuy asked me If I had changed the coffee supplier or used old beans! All beans rested for 7 days before use.
> 
> Maybe the company has changed hands...


 I just tried another of their blends, this time their Mediterranean Mocha, and after dialling in (16gr/32g out, 25 seconds), it tastes exactly as you describe...bland! Grind has very little aroma but beans seem to smell fairly rich. Taste has no real lingering aspects to it. Smooth, no bitter after-taste and no acidity, just very little flavour and definitely not one to cut through milky drinks. As I like Americanos for my morning drink, I tried it not really expecting much difference from the Espresso and it was predictably smooth but bland. Won't be revisiting either that blend nor their Sweet Bourbon blend again although I had no problems dialling in the Mocha, unlike the Sweet Bourbon which was a waste of time and money. May give them one more chance and try Brighton Lanes, another Gusto Gold (my favourite so far from them) and the darker Mahogany Malabar a go. If these disappoint I'll probably stick with Rave for now as their Colombia Suarez Project are my favourites so far of any I've tried..


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Bica60s said:


> I just tried another of their blends, this time their Mediterranean Mocha, and after dialling in (16gr/32g out, 25 seconds), it tastes exactly as you describe...bland! Grind has very little aroma but beans seem to smell fairly rich. Taste has no real lingering aspects to it. Smooth, no bitter after-taste and no acidity, just very little flavour and definitely not one to cut through milky drinks. As I like Americanos for my morning drink, I tried it not really expecting much difference from the Espresso and it was predictably smooth but bland. Won't be revisiting either that blend nor their Sweet Bourbon blend again although I had no problems dialling in the Mocha, unlike the Sweet Bourbon which was a waste of time and money. May give them one more chance and try Brighton Lanes, another Gusto Gold (my favourite so far from them) and the darker Mahogany Malabar a go. If these disappoint I'll probably stick with Rave for now as their Colombia Suarez Project are my favourites so far of any I've tried..


 Sorry, I'm a little confused, you said the coffee was bland, but then you said you had no trouble dialling it in? Both cannot be true?


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Sorry, I'm a little confused, you said the coffee was bland, but then you said you had no trouble dialling it in? Both cannot be true?


 It depends on what you define as "dialled in". You can have the right grind and tamp for an even distribution and extraction in the "usual" 25 to 27 seconds, which results in a rich crema and coffee which is neither acidic nor that bitter. I altered the grind slightly for 3 or 4 attempts until I got this with something that looked to extract evenly and with the right speed and colour using a bottomless portafilter. to my mind, the grind and tamp were correctly "dialled in". Sorry if this doesn't meet with your definition which I guess means that if you're doing everything right but it has no flavour then it just won't "dial in" if I understand you correctly?

My first attempt resulted in 32 secs and a bitter taste with a dark crema. My second was too far the other way at 19 secs (same tamp, more coarse grind) and the extraction speeding through too quickly with a slight acidity but little flavour. The 3rd and 4th were similar with only a very slight change in grind between them resulting in 25 seconds, good crema, and a smooth balanced taste but with little depth of flavour. It couldn't be clearer really...there was nothing much wrong with the way in which it was extracted but it just didn't have much depth of flavour. There was little wrong with how it was extracted but the results were pretty bland. Bland roasts do exist and this was one of them, for me anyway.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You dial in for taste, it's not a question of my, or anyone else's definition, we're not conducting time trials, we're making nice tasting drinks 

Maybe the coffee is low in flavour, but you seem you only be trying a narrow range of options.

You would have to be making pretty massive changes in grind to go from under to over-extraction.

What do Coffee Compass say, have they asked you to return it for evaluation?


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

MWJB said:


> You dial in for taste, it's not a question of my, or anyone else's definition, we're not conducting time trials, we're making nice tasting drinks ?
> 
> Maybe the coffee is low in flavour, but you seem you only be trying a narrow range of options.
> 
> ...


 I have had my fair share of issues with their blends, currently about to finish a bag of the Brighton lanes, which is fine, but just that.

In any case, you do have a point, as I definitely have not reached out to them to tell them about my Sweet bourbon issues, has anyone else? Is there anyone from CC on this forum?


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

ArisP said:


> I have had my fair share of issues with their blends, currently about to finish a bag of the Brighton lanes, which is fine, but just that.
> 
> In any case, you do have a point, as I definitely have not reached out to them to tell them about my Sweet bourbon issues, has anyone else? Is there anyone from CC on this forum?


I wouldn't bother with the Brighton Lanes, I found it wishy washy at best. Gusto, Mahogany Malabar and the Jampit Hit are the best for me. That said taste is subjective and YMMV.

I think the other poster is correct however and you need to grind for taste. I never dose less than 18g and aim for 36 to 40g out anywhere between 22 and 35 seconds out - I know there's a fabled "ideal" of 1:2 ratio in 25 seconds but this is very much a loose guide.

The Mediterranean mocha blend is quite chocolatey I found, and in order to make a mocha you don't want too many strong flavours competing in the cup, the coffee is usually a hint but chocolate milk is the main taste aimed for - the dark Italian mocha is very robust I found, and a little bitter for just espresso as I drink.

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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

MWJB said:


> You dial in for taste, it's not a question of my, or anyone else's definition, we're not conducting time trials, we're making nice tasting drinks ?
> 
> Maybe the coffee is low in flavour, but you seem you only be trying a narrow range of options.
> 
> ...


 Yes...it's low in flavour....no, it didn't take much of a step either way in grind for this bean to make the changes I experienced...so no, you didn't have to be making "massive" changes with these at all...where do you get this from? Either the roast itself is very inconsistent or it isn't taking much of a step change in grind because my technique the the temperature (checked) is consistent enough each time not to be the cause of the end result. No, I won't be contacting them as I won't bother ordering these again. If you want to try some for yourself, go ahead. I've tried enough now over the years to know what I like and what I don't like and at the prices being charged, if there are quality consistency or roast issues, I won't be throwing money at beans with little flavour (or poor roasts/quality as I experienced with the Sweet Bourbon) again. They should be testing batches themselves to ensure quality is being kept up. Keep needling away though if you like but I'm not playing those games.


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## Ham (Dec 20, 2018)

Never had a problem, been buying form them for a few years. On the Mahogany Roast front, they have a new Brazilian blend which I really enjoyed, although it did need a coarser grind. I normally order twp Kg at a time, with Rancheros and Serano as staples, and play the field with the other two. It's fun.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

brokentechie said:


> I wouldn't bother with the Brighton Lanes, I found it wishy washy at best. Gusto, Mahogany Malabar and the Jampit Hit are the best for me. That said taste is subjective and YMMV.
> 
> I think the other poster is correct however and you need to grind for taste. I never dose less than 18g and aim for 36 to 40g out anywhere between 22 and 35 seconds out - I know there's a fabled "ideal" of 1:2 ratio in 25 seconds but this is very much a loose guide.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the heads up. If you're saying that Brighton Lines is wishy-washy, I'll cross that one off my list too. I'll give the Mahogany Malabar a go as that sounds more up my street.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Bica60s said:


> Yes...it's low in flavour....no, it didn't take much of a step either way in grind for this bean to make the changes I experienced...so no, you didn't have to be making "massive" changes with these at all...where do you get this from? Either the roast itself is very inconsistent or it isn't taking much of a step change in grind because my technique the the temperature (checked) is consistent enough each time not to be the cause of the end result. No, I won't be contacting them as I won't bother ordering these again. If you want to try some for yourself, go ahead. I've tried enough now over the years to know what I like and what I don't like and at the prices being charged, if there are quality consistency or roast issues, I won't be throwing money at beans with little flavour (or poor roasts/quality as I experienced with the Sweet Bourbon) again. They should be testing batches themselves to ensure quality is being kept up. Keep needling away though if you like but I'm not playing those games.


 This isn't a reasonable response. There are no games. I'm not needling, I'm asking whether CC have given you their verdict. I'm suggesting you make some more dramatic changes in order to exhaust the possibilities of changing something in your method.

£20 a kilo is cheap.

They likely are tasting themselves, hence discussion with them would be appropriate. If they agree the roast is off they will likely make amends. All roasters have an off batch from time to time.

You do have to make big changes to go from under to over, however it isn't a linear change in taste, so you can get peaks & troughs in flavour as you go. I get this from experience of my own & from others.


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## catpuccino (Jan 5, 2019)

MWJB said:


> They likely are tasting themselves, hence discussion with them would be appropriate. If they agree the roast is off they will likely make amends. All roasters have an off batch from time to time.


 Exactly - It's my experience 100% of the time that if you message a roaster to say something's off that they'll send out a replacement bag from a new batch. ?‍♂


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

I have had a handfull of the blends from CC and compared to the jampit hit they all kind of got crossed off the list. Not because they were bad (although I'm not a fan of the Mediterranean mocha) but simply because the java is so different.

Now if I do order from CC I get the jampit hit because it is a bit different. And by a bit different I mean a lot.

I'd actually reccomended everyone gives the jampit hit a go at least once (you may hate it tho) . It is dark and spicy in the cup, this needs a few weeks to rest and I found it best pulled short (1:1.5) although I'd like to give it another go with a smaller basket and lower dose/ yield in the cup at a more normal ratio (1:2ish). I think this is so 'potent' that too much can overwhelm a milk drink and maybe I have convinced myself it tastes best shorter because its a bit less in the cup when mixed with milk.


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## Planter (Apr 12, 2017)

Bica60s said:


> Yes...it's low in flavour....no, it didn't take much of a step either way in grind for this bean to make the changes I experienced...so no, you didn't have to be making "massive" changes with these at all...where do you get this from? Either the roast itself is very inconsistent or it isn't taking much of a step change in grind because my technique the the temperature (checked) is consistent enough each time not to be the cause of the end result. No, I won't be contacting them as I won't bother ordering these again. If you want to try some for yourself, go ahead. I've tried enough now over the years to know what I like and what I don't like and at the prices being charged, if there are quality consistency or roast issues, I won't be throwing money at beans with little flavour (or poor roasts/quality as I experienced with the Sweet Bourbon) again. They should be testing batches themselves to ensure quality is being kept up. Keep needling away though if you like but I'm not playing those games.


I think you are taking it all a bit personally. And I don't mean that in a bad way.

What@MWJB has said is perfectly reasonable and makes sense. I think the points raised are valid and I happen to agree. I don't think he is looking for an argument.

I'm not disputing what you are saying as you can get bad batches of roasts. But it's also worth letting the roasters know this. Coffee compass had a bad batch recently of their mystery blend. Can't remember which one. But they sent a new bad to people who had purchased. Which is brilliant customer service and also shows they listen and will acknowledge any problems or inconsistenties.

Just my tuppence and really do hope you get it sorted 

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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Didn't get on with Brighton Lanes at all. Wishy washy is a good description. Have had great results with Tusker, Monsooned Malabar, Indian Bibi, and Old Brown Java. YMMV.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

Planter said:


> I think you are taking it all a bit personally. And I don't mean that in a bad way.
> 
> What@MWJB has said is perfectly reasonable and makes sense. I think the points raised are valid and I happen to agree. I don't think he is looking for an argument.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Planter and it's unfortunate if it has come over personally because, really, it's only coffee and I'm not really taking it that personally. If it helps, I'm a fairly direct person by nature, I abhore rudeness though and never deliberately try to humiliate or be rude to anyone. It's just being relatively fresh to this forum, something the long timers won't appreciate, is that it has it's unique dynamic, and just occasionally some more established members can write responses which can very easily read as if they are deliberately out to needle someone. Often, with a little more care and thoughtfulness (as you have taken) it is quite unnecessary to take the superior tone that some do. Old hands won't notice this as much because they're used to these characters but forum land exists at the end of a keyboard where you can't ever fully relate to people as you would in person.

Back to coffee. I have persisted with this blend but really I just don't get on with it. It just doesn't do it for me. That's probably the fairest way I can express it. It's not that I'm doing anything wrong in the extraction or the grinding, some beans just are not to everyone's pallet and these rank as just that with me. I didn't get much of the flavour described in their own description with these. Not much flavour to speak of even when properly extracted. I'll give them this though, they seem to give far more consistent results that the Sweet Bourbon which was all over the shop, even if those results weren't to taste.

Fair comment about letting them know, and I do not doubt their customer service is good for a second, but there's so much choice out there, frankly I'd rather move on until I build up a list of those I do like rather than have them have the ball ache of sending out free replacements on the off-chance that there might or might not have been anything wrong with the roast. I got on well with their Gusto Gold which was a lot bolder and fuller flavoured so I will be buying that one again.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Probably depends on your definition of bland. Opened up the Brazilian Mahogany roast blend the other day. It's supposed to have flavour notes of Toffee, Honeycomb and Wine acidity which is probably pretty bland if you think about what it basically is: sweetness and wine. What I got from my first shot was a bit of a gusher which took about 20 seconds after an 8 second pre-infusion, ratio was a touch over 1:2 and bland would be a fine description, lacking mouthfeel, and any real flavour notes aside from a bit of funky wine like stuff going on. Tightened grind and got a 35 second 1:2 shot which had a bit of toffee in there but the winey kind of note was gone and it there was a touch of bitterness. Another this time, grinding a little bit finer, dropping the ratio 17g in 30g out and the coffee lost any real flavour it had and was just bitter. Pretty disastrous really and I haven't had a bad shot in a while...I noted while my first shot ran quickly it failed to hit 9 bar and could only resist 8....so I coarsened the grind and pulled a shot today at 6 bar. 17g:32g Got the flavour notes and acidity. Not the most interesting coffee but as advertised. Maybe able to fine tune a little further/increase ratio. Point is there's a lot you can do to "dial in" a coffee beyond just changing grind setting. Most coffees I "dial in" to get flavour notes straight away, as in the second shot. Sometimes it takes three. This one has taken 4 so a lot more than usual. I sometimes change grind and ratio at the same time which could lead to wasting coffee...but then again it could save it.

And if you think in terms of right and wrong. My first three shots were right and my fourth shot was wrong. My first shot produced about 35g in 28 seconds at 8 bar. Second 34g in 35 seconds at 9 bar. Third 30g in about the same 35 seconds at 9 bar. Then the fourth, which is completely wrong by the "rules" took 37 seconds for 32g at 6 bar.


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## ArisP (Dec 17, 2019)

How exactly did you get the last shot at 6 bar @Rob1

Is that an estimate based on the grounds being coarse?


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

ArisP said:


> How exactly did you get the last shot at 6 bar @Rob1
> Is that an estimate based on the grounds being coarse?


Probably has a profiling machine.

Fancy 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

brokentechie said:


> Probably has a profiling machine.
> 
> Fancy
> 
> ...





ArisP said:


> How exactly did you get the last shot at 6 bar @Rob1
> 
> Is that an estimate based on the grounds being coarse?


 Well yes I have a flow paddle on the group but you can just alter the OPV/expansion valve...

Without easily changing pressure I'd try a lower temperature first.


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## KingoftheHeath (Nov 22, 2019)

I'm pretty much done with a bag each of Brighton Lanes, Malabar Hit and Sweet Bourbon.

Brighton Lanes: Pleasantly surprised with this. I was after a coffee with less acidity, potentially what some might refer to as a 'crowd pleaser'. I almost exclusively pulled profiled shots with it. Using a 2bar pre-infusion with 6.5bar until 40g produced a nice sweet, chocolatey flavor whilst also giving a very smooth mouthfeel. Would definitely get this again. Could definitely have ground finder, so would be interested to see what effect that would have.

Malabar hit - didn't love this. Found it way too bitter despite trying a few things, such as putting temp right down to 92 and grinding coarser.

Sweet Bourbon - Mostly 'meh'. Had a nice rounded shot with it yesterday but other than that I've been using it to practice my latte art (which is pathetic at the moment).

I will use Coffee Compass again, they're customer service is great and I want to try Gusto Gold next. Really I'm using them to try and find a coffee to cut through milk and I'm not expecting unforgettable espresso from anything I get from them.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

KingoftheHeath said:


> I'm pretty much done with a bag each of Brighton Lanes, Malabar Hit and Sweet Bourbon.
> 
> Brighton Lanes: Pleasantly surprised with this. I was after a coffee with less acidity, potentially what some might refer to as a 'crowd pleaser'. I almost exclusively pulled profiled shots with it. Using a 2bar pre-infusion with 6.5bar until 40g produced a nice sweet, chocolatey flavor whilst also giving a very smooth mouthfeel. Would definitely get this again. Could definitely have ground finder, so would be interested to see what effect that would have.
> 
> ...


 Interesting notes...I must admit both Brighton Lanes and Malabar were both one's I had intended on trying. I found the same as you with Sweet Bourbon...mostly "meh" and nothing sweet about it! I agree about their service...it is very good and their prices are very reasonable.

I've tried varying temperature with a few of their beans as one way I can vary the extraction for flavour but so far have had no luck, irrespective of grind or temperature on the SB ..a few hits which tasted almost palatable but the problem I found was that even when being extra vigilant on trying to be consistent, they just gave different results almost every hit, so I gave up on those as a bad job and moved on. After persevering some more with the Mediterranean Mocha, whilst initially bland with no real creaminess or fullness of flavour, I found after increasing strength by a few gr and increasing extraction to around 30 seconds, some flavour came through still without bitterness but it was very average, and whilst smooth enough as an espresso, just didn't punch through milky drinks and made very so-so Americano. I like the Gusto Gold...not quite as much as Rave's Colombian Suarez Project but not far off.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Remember these are darker roasts, I am getting better results with 20g pulling 1:1.5 in 20-22 Sec.

Give it a try...


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## Jetpac (Nov 19, 2016)

I've quite enjoyed the mystery blend 11 but I'm quite new to 'better coffees' so I don't really know what I'm on about yet.. but I likes what I likes!


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## Inspector (Feb 23, 2017)

I once had couple of stones in my coffee luckily noticed them before i put them into grinder i have emailed them expected nothing but just to let them know as a feedback. They have sent me another bag as well as storage container. Very nice of them.

So far my fav is Java Jampit Estate.

Rancheros Mahogany 2nd.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Inspector said:


> I once had couple of stones in my coffee luckily noticed them before i put them into grinder i have emailed them expected nothing but just to let them know as a feedback. They have sent me another bag as well as storage container. Very nice of them.
> 
> So far my fav is Java Jampit Estate.
> 
> Rancheros Mahogany 2nd.


 There CS is superb. Incidentally It's good practice with any new beans to check for stones, I use a large black tray to check my beans, the stones stand out easily if there are any at all...


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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

NikonGuy said:


> Remember these are darker roasts, I am getting better results with 20g pulling 1:1.5 in 20-22 Sec.
> Give it a try...


I've obviously missed some info on darker roasts.

Can you elaborate please on why you up dose and reduce shot time and output?

Thanks

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## brokentechie (Jun 17, 2015)

Following on from my question previously I also like the lighter cherry cherry espresso blend from CC.

Sadly my missus doesn't, although now we have another mouth on the way she's off coffee so I may just get some more!

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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

brokentechie said:


> I've obviously missed some info on darker roasts.
> 
> Can you elaborate please on why you up dose and reduce shot time and output?
> 
> ...


 Dark coffees are less dense and more soluble, and as such extract differently to lighter roasts.

For an Espresso with new dark roast beans I pull a 1:1.5, 1:2 and 1:2.5 shot and see what tastes best, each coffee is different. I usually end up around 1:1.5 using a shorter extraction time with CC beans. Dose is usually 20g, but with my new 25g VST basket 25g will be my new dark roast dose going forward.

Also CC Mahogany & Ebony roast beans need less rest time, I find them best at 3-5 days from roast date.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Weirdness to report.

Pulled a shot of Rocko Mountain reserve yesterday in the usual way....2 bar pre-infusion for 15 seconds and then up to 9 bar, slowly declining to 6 bar through the shot to get 18:36 in 37 seconds (so just less than 1g/s). Got the strawberries and peachy acidity but no real dark chocolate. Usually I'd think that was ok, maybe try a little tweak from there. I read an article over on the decent espresso thread about 60+ second shot times which a run with a slow rise from pre-infusion up to full pressure then a slow decline to get a shot in a 1:3 or 1:4 ratio in 60~ seconds. So I tried it today, tightened grind a little and pre-infused for 10 seconds and then let the pressure very very slowly rise to 9 bar before moving back down to 6 and even below. Got the same acidity (not as concentrated because the shot was longer) and got the dark chocolate too. Not even a hint of bitterness.

Got me thinking I should try it with the Brazilian blend which hasn't responded well to any pressure above 7 bar. I pulled it to a couple of other profiles yesterday at lower temperatures (91c from 94c) and got bad bitter notes despite brew ratios being low and shot times being around 30 seconds. My best shot so far is plus 30 seconds, above a 1:2 and at 6 bar and 94c. I'm thinking logically I should limit max pressure on this 60 second shot profile to 7 bar with this bean



brokentechie said:


> I've obviously missed some info on darker roasts.
> 
> Can you elaborate please on why you up dose and reduce shot time and output?
> 
> ...


 Lowering extraction will help avoid bitterness with darker roasts. Or any roast for that matter. Decreasing shot time and or reducing output ratio lowers extraction. If you get a little touch of bitterness in a shot or aftertaste lowering the ratio is often enough to avoid it. Pressure and temperature are just other things you can change to decrease or increase extraction without altering strength (dilution).


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

NikonGuy said:


> Dark coffees are less dense and more soluble, and as such extract differently to lighter roasts.
> 
> For an Espresso with new dark roast beans I pull a 1:1.5, 1:2 and 1:2.5 shot and see what tastes best, each coffee is different. I usually end up around 1:1.5 using a shorter extraction time with CC beans. Dose is usually 20g, but with my new 25g VST basket 25g will be my new dark roast dose going forward.
> 
> Also CC Mahogany & Ebony roast beans need less rest time, I find them best at 3-5 days from roast date.


 Funnily enough, I'm not too far from that now with the latest beans. Pulling roughly 1:1.8 in about 18 to 20 seconds as for me that's where the best flavour balance (subjective) seems to be, not necessarily the same thing as the most intense. I tried 1:2 with various grind settings but holding past 1:8 and it started to blond a little quicker than expected even with quite a fine grind setting. It seems to take about 6 to 7 seconds for it to appear across the bottom of the open filter. With the Gusto Gold, I found a much lighter load of 16gr pulled for a 1:2 shot (roughly equivalent by volume to a double Ristretto for me) worked out with a similar grind at about 25 to 27 seconds for the best flavour. I found it a little too intense for my tastes at 20gr but still very palatable.


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## NikonGuy (Jul 31, 2014)

Bica60s said:


> Funnily enough, I'm not too far from that now with the latest beans. Pulling roughly 1:1.8 in about 18 to 20 seconds as for me that's where the best flavour balance (subjective) seems to be, not necessarily the same thing as the most intense. I tried 1:2 with various grind settings but holding past 1:8 and it started to blond a little quicker than expected even with quite a fine grind setting. It seems to take about 6 to 7 seconds for it to appear across the bottom of the open filter. With the Gusto Gold, I found a much lighter load of 16gr pulled for a 1:2 shot (roughly equivalent by volume to a double Ristretto for me) worked out with a similar grind at about 25 to 27 seconds for the best flavour. I found it a little too intense for my tastes at 20gr but still very palatable.


 This is very interesting, what temp are you running for your CC shots?

If we can collate some more feedback from CC users on there shots, maybe we can come up with some better guidelines for CC beans. It is clear to me that 1:2> for Mahogany and Ebony roasts will not work optimally.

I need to try pulling at "Italian" specs and see how that works...


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## Mark70 (Jan 12, 2020)

This is a new world to me Nikonguy. I have just received the Mystery 11. When changing the extraction ratio do you leave the grind unchanged? And then simply chose the best ratio to taste

Many thanks


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> Lowering extraction will help avoid bitterness with darker roasts. Or any roast for that matter. Decreasing shot time and or reducing output ratio lowers extraction. If you get a little touch of bitterness in a shot or aftertaste lowering the ratio is often enough to avoid it. Pressure and temperature are just other things you can change to decrease or increase extraction without altering strength (dilution).


 I brew well into 2nd crack monsooned this way but start from a different point. Descriptions vary and might go smokey, earthy with a sweet spicy kick. Not sure it's possible to describe that taste really. I might find that sort of relationship at a ratio of around 2 to 2.5 in 30 sec. I like the taste full stop so go for a ratio of 3. If I cut the shot time to 20secs it's noticeably sweet.

This sort of thing really means shortening shot time is a variable in it's own right and can be independent of the usual ones. Going the other way to say 40sec can be as well. The time variations are extracting various constituents of the bean by differing amounts. The time differences need to be significant.

Mishaps meant that I just drank a 40sec ratio of 3 and obtained a rather smooth drink. I prefer it a little fierce and wouldn't describe that result as bitter. Mishap - not waiting for the beans to oil up.

John

-


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

NikonGuy said:


> This is very interesting, what temp are you running for your CC shots?
> 
> If we can collate some more feedback from CC users on there shots, maybe we can come up with some better guidelines for CC beans. It is clear to me that 1:2> for Mahogany and Ebony roasts will not work optimally.
> 
> I need to try pulling at "Italian" specs and see how that works...


 My temps vary by a degree or two as I temperature surf but 92 or 93 degrees would be average for the start based upon measuring temps pulled into a shot glass (pre warmed)


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Bica60s said:


> My temps vary by a degree or two as I temperature surf but 92 or 93 degrees would be average for the start based upon measuring temps pulled into a shot glass (pre warmed)


 If you measure the water as it hits the glass the water at the coffee puck will be higher, probably by 5c or so.

Pulled a 1:3 shot in the morning of the Brazilian blend, shot ran for 64 seconds and I only took it up to 7.5 bar. Loads of toffee and honeycomb, very little bitterness and not in a completely unpleasant way either. On a non profiling machine I think the best thing will be to limit pressure to 6-7 bar and aim to have a long extraction time to hit your ratios.


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## Tigermad (Sep 7, 2015)

Inspector said:


> I once had couple of stones in my coffee luckily noticed them before i put them into grinder i have emailed them expected nothing but just to let them know as a feedback. They have sent me another bag as well as storage container. Very nice of them.
> 
> So far my fav is Java Jampit Estate.
> 
> Rancheros Mahogany 2nd.


 Spooky, coffee compass beans are the only ones I have ever had a stone in. Unfortunately I did not notice until the blades of my grinder nearly exploded ? This was a good few years ago now though.


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## Bica60s (Dec 3, 2019)

Rob1 said:


> If you measure the water as it hits the glass the water at the coffee puck will be higher, probably by 5c or so.
> 
> Pulled a 1:3 shot in the morning of the Brazilian blend, shot ran for 64 seconds and I only took it up to 7.5 bar. Loads of toffee and honeycomb, very little bitterness and not in a completely unpleasant way either. On a non profiling machine I think the best thing will be to limit pressure to 6-7 bar and aim to have a long extraction time to hit your ratios.


 I thought about doing just this using a pressure gauge fitted to the grouphead but decided against it as I tend to rotate between my favourite coffee blends, so unless they all respond well to lower pressure/longer extraction times I'd end up twiddling with the OPV every bag of beans! If it is generally accepted that it's worth a try across medium and dark roasts, I'd give it a go. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I haven't checked my machine's pressure yet but I understand that Rancilio set it to in the factory to between 9 and 10 bar.


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