# Lelit Victoria PL91T - Peoples Thoughts



## Mm391

Hi Everyone,

I am thinking about buying a Lelit Victoria PL91T and wondered if anyone had any thoughts, reviews or if anyone has one and could outline any pro's and cons? I was originally looking at a Sage Duo Temp Pro but came across this which seems to have PID, Solenoid valve, pressure gauge and pre-infusion (a few more ticks in the box than the duo temp pro). It seems it is a similar price bracket to the Sage Barista Express maybe a little more but I already have a really good grinder and don't want a machine with and integrated one.

Thank you


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## MediumRoastSteam

Mm391 said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am thinking about buying a Lelit Victoria PL91T and wondered if anyone had any thoughts, reviews or if anyone has one and could outline any pro's and cons? I was originally looking at a Sage Duo Temp Pro but came across this which seems to have PID, Solenoid valve, pressure gauge and pre-infusion (a few more ticks in the box than the duo temp pro). It seems it is a similar price bracket to the Sage Barista Express maybe a little more but I already have a really good grinder and don't want a machine with and integrated one.
> 
> Thank you


 So I have Victoria's big sister, Elizabeth. Before settling on the Elizabeth, I have researched the Victoria quite a bit. I think you can, broadly speaking, that the Victoria is just one half of the Elizabeth. Very broadly. There are differences, like boiler size.

i did toy with the idea of going back to SBDU machine, but, if you like milk based drinks, I think it would be better to consider an HX or DB machine.

google Lelit Victoria. There are some videos of the machine working, but it's in French.


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## OutCold

I'd strongly advise against using Victoria's preinfusion - it's nothing like Elizabeth's. Another gripe I have with it is the timer - it's a countdown timer and it disappears immediately after finishing the shot or the set time is over. That's not to say that the machine is bad - it has got PID for both brew and steam, the OPV is adjustable (though not easy), has auto fill for the boiler after steaming. I'm happy with the espresso taste I'm able to get with it and the wife is delighted with the cappuccinos. Just some thoughts...


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## MediumRoastSteam

OutCold said:


> I'd strongly advise against using Victoria's preinfusion - it's nothing like Elizabeth's. Another gripe I have with it is the timer - it's a countdown timer and it disappears immediately after finishing the shot or the set time is over. That's not to say that the machine is bad - it has got PID for both brew and steam, the OPV is adjustable (though not easy), has auto fill for the boiler after steaming. I'm happy with the espresso taste I'm able to get with it and the wife is delighted with the cappuccinos. Just some thoughts...


 how's the pre-infusion different?


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## OutCold

It stops the pump after a couple of seconds just as if you stopped it with the button and starts it on again - so the solenoid is activated. That sudden drop of pressure can't be good for the puck I imagine.


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## MediumRoastSteam

OutCold said:


> It stops the pump after a couple of seconds just as if you stopped it with the button and starts it on again - so the solenoid is activated. That sudden drop of pressure can't be good for the puck I imagine.


 Wow. I didn't realise that. That's surely not good! 
so, are you saying that, the pressure goes up, then the group vents, pressure back to zero and off it goes again? That's insane if that's what it it's!


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## OutCold

That's exactly how "preinfusion" works on Victoria and that's exactly why I used it only once


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## MediumRoastSteam

OutCold said:


> It stops the pump after a couple of seconds just as if you stopped it with the button and starts it on again - so the solenoid is activated. That sudden drop of pressure can't be good for the puck I imagine.


 Out of curiosity, and because I never saw one of those in the flesh, is there any chance one day you could just do a demo/video for us of this "feature"? If you don't want to waste coffee, just do with the blind basket (for backflushing). That would be just fine. If you could keep the manometer and the LCC in focus and capture the sounds, that would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.


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## DavecUK

You are thinking the same as me...


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## L&R

I have one PL91T in my lab and could make such video. Preinfusion only?


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## DavecUK

L&R said:


> I have one PL91T in my lab and could make such video. Preinfusion only?


 You could just tell us if the solenoid vents during the preinfusion, or only after the shot. The word Lab gives me some confidence 

But a vid will be nice as well...


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## L&R

Here is the vid


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## DavecUK

I have work to do....need to update my notebook.


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## L&R

In a nutshell: you hit the puck with the full pressure>you trigger 3way(destroy the cake)>hit again the cake with the full pressure...

But in general PL91T is a nice single boiler so I highly recommend it.


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## DavecUK

L&R said:


> In a nutshell: you hit the puck with the full pressure>you trigger 3way(destroy the cake)>hit again the cake with the full pressure...
> 
> But in general PL91T is a nice single boiler so I highly recommend it.


 It can be better though.. And that's why I do what I do. Admittedly not usually on machines of that class, but I'm prepared to make an exception. Is that the 57mm portafilter one?


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## L&R

Nope PL81T is 57mm, this one is 58, same brew head and boiler as Elisabeth but different sensors and controller.


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## DavecUK

L&R said:


> Nope PL81T is 57mm, this one is 58, same brew head and boiler as Elisabeth but different sensors and controller.


 Thank god for small mercies


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## DavecUK

I have also worked out why they do it as they do, or why they made the decision back in the day...


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## L&R

Most probably because the pump is not driven by LCC the only thing they could do is to play with 3way.


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## DavecUK

L&R said:


> Most probably because the pump is not driven by LCC so the only thing to do is to play with 3way.


 Oh probably but the reason they did it is a bit deeper than that I suspect...lets hope it can be changed, may then just be an LCC firmware reflash and a bit of wire...you never know.


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## Blue_Cafe

At a guess:

Using the expansion valve to dump pre-infusion pressure (to enable a pause in the pressure/flow) in this manner is unavoidable if you don't want backflow into the boiler no?

And it's done this way (simple pump on/off) because it's cost saving without the controller & PCB and/or the pump is happy being variable?

Or in short: it's a fudge.

Its not pre-infusion, it's stepped brewing.

Can I claim my £10?


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## AJP80

Is the pump on long enough during preinfusion to put the cake under pressure, so that a sudden opening of the 3-way would destroy it? Or is it on long enough only to pre-wet the cake? I know the pressure gauge shows pressure, but presumably that is not pressure at the puck, is it?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Blue_Cafe said:


> At a guess:
> 
> Using the expansion valve to dump pre-infusion pressure (to enable a pause in the pressure/flow) in this manner is unavoidable if you don't want backflow into the boiler no?
> 
> And it's done this way (simple pump on/off) because it's cost saving without the controller & PCB and/or the pump is happy being variable?
> 
> Or in short: it's a fudge.
> 
> Its not pre-infusion, it's stepped brewing.
> 
> Can I claim my £10?


 Let me tell you one more time:

- There is no back flow into the boiler (it's a 3 way valve, boiler to group (one way), group to drip tray (2 way). 2 + 1 = 3
- Expansion valve *is not *the same as the 3way solenoid valve. Expansion valve does not dump anything. It's a spring valve, simple mechanics. It opens at a certain pressure. 
- You can even fit a PID on a Gaggia classic which control pre-infusion without opening the 3way valve.

*Please, please stop writing nonsense.*


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## Blue_Cafe

AJP80 said:


> Is the pump on long enough during preinfusion to put the cake under pressure, so that a sudden opening of the 3-way would destroy it? Or is it on long enough only to pre-wet the cake? I know the pressure gauge shows pressure, but presumably that is not pressure at the puck, is it?


 Correct, mostly I think.

I think the idea is possibly The pump turns on long enough to just fill the void spaces. Once those voids fill up, pressure is generated against the surface of the puck. However, that water has to get through the puck for any depressurisation to be an issue. Perhaps the delta in time isn't actually enough to generate pressure in the puck itself and thus the infusion works of sorts.

I'm sure it does work else it wouldn't be a feature huh.

It might suit a firmer puck mind.


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## Blue_Cafe

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Let me tell you one more time:
> 
> - There is no back flow into the boiler (it's a 3 way valve, boiler to group (one way), group to drip tray (2 way). 2 + 1 = 3
> - Expansion valve *is not *the same as the 3way solenoid valve. Expansion valve does not dump anything. It's a spring valve, simple mechanics. It opens at a certain pressure.
> - You can even fit a PID on a Gaggia classic which control pre-infusion without opening the 3way valve.
> 
> *Please, please stop writing nonsense.*


 I suggest you read my post again and then read your own post again.

I'm not going to tell you where you are completely wrong btw, because it takes a small bit of understanding about fluid mechanics, process engineering and mechanical theory to do so and my previous attempts to help you understand same have been fruitless.

But please, if you feel the need to shout again, go and give your beans a rattle for a minute and calm down :good:


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## DavecUK

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Let me tell you one more time:
> 
> - There is no back flow into the boiler (it's a 3 way valve, boiler to group (one way), group to drip tray (2 way). 2 + 1 = 3
> - Expansion valve *is not *the same as the 3way solenoid valve. Expansion valve does not dump anything. It's a spring valve, simple mechanics. It opens at a certain pressure.
> - You can even fit a PID on a Gaggia classic which control pre-infusion without opening the 3way valve.
> 
> *Please, please stop writing nonsense.*


 Alberto, I'd just leave it, let him have his say...after all he won't be in Milan with Lelit. I will sort it out with them when I'm there. There will either be a reason, or it might be fixable...at least I can get detail on the programming and schematic from those who designed it.


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## gyurmaember

Gents, I don't know how old is the machine in question, but my Victoria is not pressurising the puck in the pre infusion stage. Maybe they changed something.

Is the Lelit's PF produce fake crema? Let's discuss!


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## MediumRoastSteam

gyurmaember said:


> Gents, I don't know how old is the machine in question, but my Victoria is not pressurising the puck in the pre infusion stage. Maybe they changed something.
> 
> Is the Lelit's PF produce fake crema? Let's discuss!


 No fake crema unless you are using maybe a pod basket? 
you say it's not pressurising the puck. What do you mean? 
which grinder do you have? Any chance of a photo of the basket and a video? Thanks!


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## Blue_Cafe

gyurmaember said:


> Gents, I don't know how old is the machine in question, but my Victoria is not pressurising the puck in the pre infusion stage. Maybe they changed something.
> 
> Is the Lelit's PF produce fake crema? Let's discuss!


 Fake crema is a myth.

And what would that have to do with pre infusion and pressure?

Can you be more descriptive?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Blue_Cafe said:


> Fake crema is a myth.
> 
> And what would that have to do with pre infusion and pressure?
> 
> Can you be more descriptive?


 People often refer to "fake crema" what comes out as a product of pressurised baskets. It's anything but crema, it just looks like it.


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## Blue_Cafe

MediumRoastSteam said:


> People often refer to "fake crema" what comes out as a product of pressurised baskets. It's anything but crema, it just looks like it.


 Nope.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Blue_Cafe said:


> Nope.


 🤷‍♂️


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## gyurmaember

So, I meant I've got better and longer lasting crema with the original PF holder and the original basket, then i get with bottomless PF holder and the same basket.

The comment adbout pre-infusion was regarding the previous discussions.


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## gyurmaember

MediumRoastSteam said:


> No fake crema unless you are using maybe a pod basket?
> you say it's not pressurising the puck. What do you mean?
> which grinder do you have? Any chance of a photo of the basket and a video? Thanks!


 I meant the pressure gauge doesn't move in the pre infusion stage on my machine.


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## MediumRoastSteam

gyurmaember said:


> I meant the pressure gauge doesn't move in the pre infusion stage on my machine.


 Now, that's weird. How long does the pump run for? Do you see coffee coming out of the spout during that stage? If the gauge doesn't move, then there's no pressure. 
ps: hence why I mentioned a video. 😉


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## Blue_Cafe

gyurmaember said:


> So, I meant I've got better and longer lasting crema with the original PF holder and the original basket, then i get with bottomless PF holder and the same basket.
> 
> The comment adbout pre-infusion was regarding the previous discussions.


 Are you using exactly the same techniques, dosing, tamping with both? (In other words, are you applying much more care and precision with the bottomless?)


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## MediumRoastSteam

gyurmaember said:


> So, I meant I've got better and longer lasting crema with the original PF holder and the original basket, then i get with bottomless PF holder and the same basket.
> 
> The comment adbout pre-infusion was regarding the previous discussions.


 How much are you dosing into the basket? Usually 18g (as a rule of thumb). What's your output? Usually we aim for a 1->2 ratio, meaning, for each gram of coffee, you aim to yield 2g of liquid. 18g -> 36g, in around 30 seconds. Those are guidelines only.

It might be that the basket which came with your Naked PF is a bigger basket which could hold easily 22g of coffee. Do check that. The PF itself should not make any difference in terms of what's in the cup to *to the extend you are experiencing.*

simple thing to do: put the basket which produces better coffee into your naked portafilter.


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## andysk

Hey guys, I'm new here (and overall to manual coffee world in general).

Was about to pull the plug on Victoria and I came across this thread.

How disturbing it is for this preinfusion "issue" mentioned in this thread to its internal part? Does it make it less reliable in doing so?

I watched an Elizabeth doing similar thing on one of the video below


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## MediumRoastSteam

> 4 hours ago, andysk said:
> 
> Hey guys, I'm new here (and overall to manual coffee world in general).
> 
> Was about to pull the plug on Victoria and I came across this thread.
> 
> How disturbing it is for this preinfusion "issue" mentioned in this thread to its internal part? Does it make it less reliable in doing so?
> 
> I watched an Elizabeth doing similar thing on one of the video below


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## andysk

Could that just be a bad dosing/tamping?

Couldn't see it here: (start from 1:55)


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## andysk

This one is a bit clearer:


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## Waitforme

What is the theory behind the pre-infusion, what is it supposed to achieve?


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## DavecUK

Waitforme said:


> What is the theory behind the pre-infusion, what is it supposed to achieve?


 That's a big subject, the thinking is broadly..



Gradual preinfusion saturates the puck allowing a finer grind to be used, whereas a quick rise to full pressure for the same grind would choke the machine


Saturating the puck allows changes the extraction phase, allowing more flavour out of the coffee


It should prevent the puck from fracturing so easily.


All to get a better extraction with more flavour...


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## Waitforme

Thanks Dave

Is it likely to damage the machine using it with the flaw or is it just a case of it's not actually going to enhance the coffee shot ?

The Victoria would appear to tick all of the boxes for me but if there's a design flaw then I would cross it off my list of potential machines.


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## DavecUK

Waitforme said:


> Thanks Dave
> 
> Is it likely to damage the machine using it with the flaw or is it just a case of it's not actually going to enhance the coffee shot ?
> 
> The Victoria would appear to tick all of the boxes for me but if there's a design flaw then I would cross it off my list of potential machines.




If you can turn preinfusion off, then use it like that.


If you can't turn preinfusion off, then reconsider whether to buy it or not. Perhaps get one of the other machines I actually tested e.g. MaraX or Elizabeth, you won't be disappointed


In the case of 1. I will, when I finally meet up with Lelit mention the preinfusion issue and ask them to change the software to act like the Elizabeth perinfusion (obviously with no steam preinfusion option)....this means *if it has an LCC* then it can be reflashed or a replacement LCC purchase with updated firmware.

I don't want to get too involved with it all because it's not a machine I am particularly interested in testing, I have little enough time to do the more interesting machines. If I start asking about it, suddenly a package will be winging it's way to me and I really don't want that. I already have a package with updated MaraX stuff to fit to my MaraX and test.


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## Waitforme

Thanks once again Dave.

I'll do a bit of further research.

The Elizabeth does look nice though .......


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## Waitforme

Looks like the pre infusion can be turned off within the LCC programmer.

Why it's not programmed similarly to the Elizabeth which appears to work differently is anyone's guess.

I suppose if I go down the route of the Victoria then I can try with it on and off.


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## DavecUK

Waitforme said:


> Thanks once again Dave.
> 
> I'll do a bit of further research.
> 
> The Elizabeth does look nice though .......


 Personally I would think hard about stretching to the Elizabeth (or similar priced dual boiler), you are going to have the machine a long, long time...After many years that extra money won't seem too bad an investment.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Waitforme said:


> Looks like the pre infusion can be turned off within the LCC programmer.
> 
> Why it's not programmed similarly to the Elizabeth which appears to work differently is anyone's guess.
> 
> I suppose if I go down the route of the Victoria then I can try with it on and off.


 Sorry I've lost track. But do you drink solely espresso or also have milk based drinks? Cappuccino, flat white, latte, cortado, macchiato, hot chocolate, etc. If you don't enjoy milk drink or don't have one at least once a day... then the Elizabeth is overkill. You are better off with a Bezzera Unica from @BlackCatCoffee. Now, if you do enjoy milk drinks, man... Lizzy can make your dreams come true. 😂😂😂😂😂


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## Waitforme

Thanks guys.

I mainly drink espresso / americano but my wife drinks cappuccinos ( usually from a Nespresso set up).

I'm currently working my way through the Lizzy thread and have dropped Lamamacchinadelcaffe an email re when they will get them in stock again.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Waitforme said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I mainly drink espresso / americano but my wife drinks cappuccinos ( usually from a Nespresso set up).
> 
> I'm currently working my way through the Lizzy thread and have dropped Lamamacchinadelcaffe an email re when they will get them in stock again.


 At this point, I'd forget a SBDU (Single boiler dual use) machine like the Victoria. You are better off with a dual boiler machine or MaraX (Clever HX machine).


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## gichka

@MediumRoastSteam, why would one got for HX or DB for only one espresso and one milk drink?

Do you think Victoria is not capable of two espressos and steam for the milk? Guess I am missing something, I am new in the coffee world. 

I don't mean to argue, just really curious why Victoria seems to get that many negative reviews?

I am asking as my wife and I are having the same morning routine - espresso and cappuccino. Unfortunately I have already ordered the Victoria as the price was reasonable - just 600EUR. My first semi-auto machine and didn't really want to go above that budget. I also didn't want to complicate things for my wife, so with LCC - Victoria seemed easier to work with.

I really wanted MaraX , but it was + 400EUR ( 70% more), but now I am starting to think it was a mistake not getting the latter E61. Actually it is worth mentioning those 400EUR saved from MaraX were spent for Niche Zero  Was it a mistake?

And still, is the Victoria really that bad?

Thanks!


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## DavecUK

@gichkaIt sounds as if the Victoria is fine for you and what you need the machine for. Using the savings to get a good grinder was a smart move.


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## MediumRoastSteam

@gichka - never seen the Victoria. I'm sure it's a good machine.

personally, after using a Gaggia Classic for 3 years or so, moving to an HX and then dual boiler system, was an eye opener, even though I only steam milk for myself in the morning as my first coffee.

The routine is just so much simpler without having to wait to steam milk. I found that the quality of the steam is not as wet, and is much stronger, which helps quite a bit. That seemed true for the machines I seen and used: Gaggia Classic, Rancilio Silvia and Bezzera Unica (the last one just really briefly at Bella Barista).

overall, if budget is a constraint, you did the right thing: the grinder is very important, and the Niche is a great choice.


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## L2en

@gichka I originally wanted to buy Victoria, ended up with Elizabeth just because I was able to get it under £1000, which was my upper limit, being the only coffee drinker in the house I just decided I could not justify spending more. I'm superhappy with my decision coming from Silvia, even though I have just one milk drink a day. I'm sure if I didn't have comparison I would be just as happy with Victoria as I didn't find the steaming problematic with the Silvia (lots of dry powerful steam 1 minute after switching the button), the reason for change was the temperature control, which is perfectly fine with Victoria. In my case, changing grinder made the biggest difference in coffee quality, so I think you have done the right thing with a set budget. I'm sure you can upgrade later, Victoria is surely great first machine.


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## gichka

Thanks, guys!

I have been following the forum as a guest, but I am really happy with the answers and reactions to my first post. Amazing community! Would definitely try to be active and share results.

I received the Victoria - it's a beast compared to the Nespresso we have. Happy with my purchase. 
However as I am scheduled for Feb '21 delivery Niche Zero, the machine would rather sit still, not being used.

I got some freshly roasted coffee, and asked to be ground in the shop on four different steps. Tried each one of them, but the coffee is underextracted - flows way too fast and is quite sour. Another thing I tried was filling more coffee in the double basket , that improved the taste a bit, but definitely not what I would expect, still sour.

Not sure what the coffee shop grinder was, it was definitely a commercial one. I got it ground on step 2.0 as lowest, but the current way it flows it seems like I need to go at 0.1 to get s.th good, which is odd 

Any ideas for workaround not having a grinder by my side or rather stop wasting coffee and wait a bit more for the Niche? Probably it's a bit of hit and miss with preground, even if it is freshly roasted and I guess it would never work?

I am using stock double basket, it says 14grams , but how much do you guys usually use ? I tried with 14 to 19 grams. Probably Elizabeth owners would know what would be the standard for double, should I follow what the manual says - 14gr?


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## DavecUK

gichka said:


> Thanks, guys!
> 
> I have been following the forum as a guest, but I am really happy with the answers and reactions to my first post. Amazing community! Would definitely try to be active and share results.
> 
> I received the Victoria - it's a beast compared to the Nespresso we have. Happy with my purchase.
> However as I am scheduled for Feb '21 delivery Niche Zero, the machine would rather sit still, not being used.


 It's a long wait I know, but it's really difficult with preground coffee. Even if you do eventually get a grind that works on day one, it will probably start running fast by days 2-4 and gushing on day 4 with quite a degraded taste.


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## Barbu

gichka said:


> @MediumRoastSteam, why would one got for HX or DB for only one espresso and one milk drink?
> 
> Do you think Victoria is not capable of two espressos and steam for the milk? Guess I am missing something, I am new in the coffee world.
> 
> I don't mean to argue, just really curious why Victoria seems to get that many negative reviews?
> 
> I am asking as my wife and I are having the same morning routine - espresso and cappuccino. Unfortunately I have already ordered the Victoria as the price was reasonable - just 600EUR. My first semi-auto machine and didn't really want to go above that budget. I also didn't want to complicate things for my wife, so with LCC - Victoria seemed easier to work with.
> 
> I really wanted MaraX , but it was + 400EUR ( 70% more), but now I am starting to think it was a mistake not getting the latter E61. Actually it is worth mentioning those 400EUR saved from MaraX were spent for Niche Zero  Was it a mistake?
> 
> And still, is the Victoria really that bad?
> 
> Thanks!


 Hello gichka, I'm new here too and l opted for the Victoria since i don't use milk at all, but i must say you got a better price. 😲 I paid over 800EUR for mine. I've only had it for 2 days so still working out how to use this machine as best as possible. Hope the Victoria meets your expectations with the grinder!


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## scmdg

Where did you guys bought the Victoria?

Tried looking online and there is coffeeitalia coming at £699 but I have read of loooong delivery times and issues with warranty and refunds when there is a problem with the delivery/machine so I am not ordering from them.

The other one is Espresso friend whi 2-3 weeks and its more expensive and more important, could not find reviews about being a reputable seller or not.

Otherwise, unable to find it in stock. I am close to switching to Grace or something just because Bella has it in stock plus other sellers.

Thanks


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## Rincewind

scmdg said:


> ..there is coffeeitalia....I am *not* ordering from them.


 Excellent, i see that you've done your homework.



scmdg said:


> The other one is *Espresso friend* whi 2-3 weeks and its more expensive and more important, *could not find reviews* about being a reputable seller or not.


 if i'm not mistaken then these are Coffee Friend aka The Coffee Mate aka (slipped my mind)....these Polish box shifters are constantly changing "their name"...3 times in less than a year iirc...it appears as soon as they start getting bad reviews on TrusPilot then it's changey-name-time. They keep the exact same "logo" though and site layout etc. *If* this is the same people then i suggest you avoid them at all costs. click to read what i said (8th one down)

I'm surprised that BB don't sell the Victoria....it's a Lelit after all.


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## scmdg

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> Excellent, i see that you've done your homework.
> 
> if i'm not mistaken then these are Coffee Friend aka The Coffee Mate aka (slipped my mind)....these Polish box shifters are constantly changing "their name"...3 times in less than a year iirc...it appears as soon as they start getting bad reviews on TrusPilot then it's changey-name-time. They keep the exact same "logo" though and site layout etc. *If* this is the same people then i suggest you avoid them at all costs. click to read what i said (8th one down)
> 
> I'm surprised that BB don't sell the Victoria....it's a Lelit after all.


 Sorry, it is Coffee Friend, dunno why I remembered as Espresso Friend

Yeah, when I noticed that there is a coffee mate website, did not thought about being coffeeitalia but it seemed 2 names for same company to make it as they are in the UK.

Judging by the delivery times definitely comes from Europe so having no UK presence for me is a no go.

I don't to end up chasing refunds, warranty or other issues.

As for Bella Barista, they stock other models but not the Victoria.

Anna, Grace, MaraX and Elizabeth from the top of my head.

I start considering both the Grace and Anna more and more.

Anna as a cheap alternative that will be upgraded later down the road probably with maybe a HX or DB or Grace which seems an upgrade to Anna already.

Thinking it's only myself drinking mainly espressos and machiattos it may be justifiable to go for the Anna.

Though decision 

Is the Victoria so good compared to Grace or Anna?

Except the already awkward thing of the 57mm brew group.


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## gichka

@DavecUK Yep, better late than sorry, right ?  Actually we did some grocery for New Year's Eve and noticed Costa coffee preground. Decided to give it a go and I gotta say I got the first drinkable result from Victoria. Close , if not better than Nespresso pods- a bit underextracted ,but expected. I can't imagine what could the machine do with proper coffee and grinder.

Strange that specialty freshly roasted coffee was terrible compared to that Costa shelf preground , but as I said it's probably hit and miss. Anyway at least I know the machine is highly capable of achieving great results with the proper grinder.

@Barbu Price was after Black Friday special discounts from local dealer, that's why I ordered it before getting the Niche. Usually looking elsewhere the price was in the range you mentioned, so I am sure you got reasonable price. I am also still learning how to use, but I must say it's an excellent machine and has great learning curve. Also it's easy to use/partner friendly.


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## Barbu

scmdg said:


> Sorry, it is Coffee Friend, dunno why I remembered as Espresso Friend
> 
> Yeah, when I noticed that there is a coffee mate website, did not thought about being coffeeitalia but it seemed 2 names for same company to make it as they are in the UK.
> 
> Judging by the delivery times definitely comes from Europe so having no UK presence for me is a no go.
> 
> I don't to end up chasing refunds, warranty or other issues.
> 
> As for Bella Barista, they stock other models but not the Victoria.
> 
> Anna, Grace, MaraX and Elizabeth from the top of my head.
> 
> I start considering both the Grace and Anna more and more.
> 
> Anna as a cheap alternative that will be upgraded later down the road probably with maybe a HX or DB or Grace which seems an upgrade to Anna already.
> 
> Thinking it's only myself drinking mainly espressos and machiattos it may be justifiable to go for the Anna.
> 
> Though decision
> 
> Is the Victoria so good compared to Grace or Anna?
> 
> Except the already awkward thing of the 57mm brew group.


 Hello, a bit late to reply, but i bought my Victoria from MaxiCoffee. they are in France but have a English language platform as well. i recieved mine 2 days after order


----------



## scmdg

Barbu said:


> Hello, a bit late to reply, but i bought my Victoria from MaxiCoffee. they are in France but have a English language platform as well. i recieved mine 2 days after order


 Hi

Thank you for your recommendation.

It seems that I cannot find espresso machines on their UK version, even when searching google, it takes me to a page where it says Product not available or something like that.

Browsing their brewing category has no espresso machines.

Can you please provide a link?

Maybe is there something I am not seeing or who knows

Edit: Tried browsing their Belgian and French version and it seems for these you have tons of machines.

When changing to Uk... no menu options, or product unavailable.

Brexit? VAT? God knows.

Will email them.

Thanks anyway


----------



## Barbu

scmdg said:


> Can you please provide a link?
> 
> Brexit? VAT? God knows.
> 
> Will email them.
> 
> Thanks anyway


 @scmdgHello and best wishes for the new year!

here is the exact link for the machine:

https://www.maxicoffee.com/machine-expresso-lelit-victoria-pl91t-offre-cadeaux-p-19746.html

and in terms of Brexit, VAT and such, it appears taht there won't be any additional taxes between UK and France, and i have been thinking about ordering a Niche Zero grinder too, which will forcibly come from the UK and i found out today that there should not be any additonal taxies or duties to pay, so I imagine this works both ways...so you could order from France, BUT, you would get a EU powercord, not a G plug


----------



## scmdg

Barbu said:


> Hello and best wishes for the new year!
> 
> here is the exact link for the machine:
> 
> https://www.maxicoffee.com/machine-expresso-lelit-victoria-pl91t-offre-cadeaux-p-19746.html
> 
> and in terms of Brexit, VAT and such, it appears taht there won't be any additional taxes between UK and France, and i have been thinking about ordering a Niche Zero grinder too, which will forcibly come from the UK and i found out today that there should not be any additonal taxies or duties to pay, so I imagine this works both ways...so you could order from France, BUT, you would get a EU powercord, not a G plug


 Happy New Year to you too!

Thank you for the link.

Tried it and it takes to French website, asking me which version I want to see ( French or UK). If I choose UK this is what I am getting (see image).

If I choose French, product is displayed but I don't know if I can checkout using this version and UK delivery address. Will try it.

I have read on Maxicoffee that for products more than £135 shipped to the UK they will not charge VAT but this will be charged by the UK border authorities.

For products less, maxicoffee will charge the VAT.

Don't know about other seller such as Niche but it seems there is no other import taxes, and no matter where is charged, VAT stays the same basically paying same price.


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## gichka

@scmdgI think you can order using French version.

Another reliable one I can think of is Mobacoffee DE. You say no additional taxes, but I don't think you can escape VATs. Just hopefully you shouldn't be double VAT charged in country of origin and then again at destination country.

Be careful with VAT and taxes. If I were you, now with first weeks into Brexit ,I would buy locally to avoid those uncertainties and delays. Still too many unknowns:/


----------



## scmdg

gichka said:


> @scmdgI think you can order using French version.
> 
> Another reliable one I can think of is Mobacoffee DE. You say no additional taxes, but I don't think you can escape VATs. Just hopefully you shouldn't be double VAT charged in country of origin and then again at destination country.
> 
> Be careful with VAT and taxes. If I were you, now with first weeks into Brexit ,I would buy locally to avoid those uncertainties and delays. Still too many unknowns:/


 I mean no additional taxes besides VAT. before this I would have paid VAT so nothing motr expensive now, if there is no import, etc tax.

Befoee editing you mentioned you bought yours from Romania, which I have considered because I can have it shipped by someone there to the UK. Ideally would buy from the UK but that's an option as well.

How did it go with your purchase, etc?

PS: si eu sunt roman


----------



## gichka

scmdg said:


> Befoee editing you mentioned you bought yours from Romania, which I have considered because I can have it shipped by someone there to the UK. Ideally would buy from the UK but that's an option as well.
> 
> How did it go with your purchase, etc?
> 
> PS: si eu sunt roman


 Yep, I mentioned Romania, but then I edited as I thought it won't be really good option for UK based people 

All was good with the purchase, no issues, since you have that option then I suggest you can check Barshaker.ro. Prices are good.


----------



## EdR

gichka said:


> @MediumRoastSteam, why would one got for HX or DB for only one espresso and one milk drink?
> 
> Do you think Victoria is not capable of two espressos and steam for the milk? Guess I am missing something, I am new in the coffee world.
> 
> I don't mean to argue, just really curious why Victoria seems to get that many negative reviews?
> 
> I am asking as my wife and I are having the same morning routine - espresso and cappuccino. Unfortunately I have already ordered the Victoria as the price was reasonable - just 600EUR. My first semi-auto machine and didn't really want to go above that budget. I also didn't want to complicate things for my wife, so with LCC - Victoria seemed easier to work with.
> 
> I really wanted MaraX , but it was + 400EUR ( 70% more), but now I am starting to think it was a mistake not getting the latter E61. Actually it is worth mentioning those 400EUR saved from MaraX were spent for Niche Zero  Was it a mistake?
> 
> And still, is the Victoria really that bad?
> 
> Thanks!


 Hey! Where did you get the Victoria for 600Euros! Many thanks


----------



## Rincewind

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> ... click to read what i said (8th one down) ...


 EDIT :- it's no longer the 8th one down as time has elapsed since my post above ☝...my review is under the title

*
DANGER DANGER not in UK !! 
*


----------



## gichka

EdR said:


> Hey! Where did you get the Victoria for 600Euros! Many thanks


 Hi, Barshaker.ro. Wrote it in the post above you  But as I mentioned it was BlackFriday promo, still you can check with them.


----------



## Zorkin

I ordered a Victoria from ... ( drum roll ) cafeitalia!

I have not been on the forum and didn't see any of the reported issues. Anyway , took a couple of weeks and there were some minor issues with them but all quickly resolved.

The machine is excellent - very solid build quality , LCC is simple to use and it makes very tasty coffee.

I make Americanos,espresso and flat whites. 
About 4/6 drinks a day in total.

The flow is fine - if you make a few milk drinks a day, waiting around 40 seconds for the boiler to come to steam temp is hardly an issue. Steam power is excellent as the boiler can ramp up to high temp. Easy to very quickly texture milk ( 30 / 40 secs or so for two drinks )

The transition back to brewing temp is also very fast

Pre infusion can be switched off via the lcc. However i use it and it does not work as per the videos above. There is no pressure , it just pre wets the puck and lets it sit for a few secs. Happy to post a video of what it looks like.

I did buy my eureka grinder from bb and love it to bits. This duo meant I can be making tasty espresso very quickly.

Highly recommend this machine to anyone wanting to spend less but still get a top of the line single boiler machine.


----------



## Rincewind

@Zorkin 😮 wait, wait a minute, *you actually got the machine you ordered* 😮

...goes a bit dizzy, falls out of bed, gets up and proceeds to slap one's self about the face to see if one is still dreaming...

...just re-checked the date...nope it's definately not the 1st of April...

SO WHAT'S THE CATCH ? :classic_wink:


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## Zorkin

As long as the machine works no catch. Delivery was not long and I didn't realise I had to worry , so
I didn't. It cost 699 pounds which is a good price for the quality I think.

I had a nice chat with the bb people via email when I ordered the grinder , as I was keen to get both machine / grinder from the same place. They didn't have the Victoria , tried to point me towards the MaraX , which would probably have been a good call , but still almost 300 pounds more and I didn't want to skimp on the grinder ( a specialita ).

Yes yes I know - you buy it for the long haul , the money saved will not be remembered etc. All true but I think when you buy your first kit you are doubtful about the whole thing. Am I really spending over a grand so I can make 4 cups of coffee a day? 
Do I really need another obsession in my life? And so on. As I'm here the answers unfortunately are yes and yes.

I must admit I found the idea that waiting 40 secs for the boiler to steam milk meant I needed to spend more on a Hx/db machine slightly ott. I mostly still do.

Perhaps post lockdown when friends come over for brunch that will change and I will upgrade, but so far so good.


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## Rincewind

"Well slap my thigh and call me a bastard" .....i'm still in a state of shock...this is Coffee Italia we are talking about....wonders will never cease....it does indeed look like "you can polish a turd" 😮

Jokes aside i'm glad for you....i hope it brings you much enjoyment :classic_smile:


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## MediumRoastSteam

Coffee Italia checked Zorkin history and detected Zorkin bought a basket from me. They obviously took this very seriously and concluded it must therefore be serious business and not to be messed about. 😂


----------



## Zorkin

Rincewind said:


> @Zorkin  wait, wait a minute, *you actually got the machine you ordered*
> ...goes a bit dizzy, falls out of bed, gets up and proceeds to slap one's self about the face to see if one is still dreaming...
> ...just re-checked the date...nope it's definately not the 1st of April...
> SO WHAT'S THE CATCH ?


So the funny thing is I didn't. 
My wife ordered the machine for my birthday , and to surprise me she ordered a black one rather than brushed stainless - that's an extra 250 pounds or so. I had no idea. When the machine was opened on my birthday she was surprised to see it was not black. 
Emailing CE she was told they didn't have the black in stock and they didn't want to delay so sent the stainless one. They promised to refund her which after a few more reminders they did...


----------



## HiM

Hello everybody. I am just in the process of pulling the trigger on a Lelit Kate.

This topic about pre-infusion got me puzzled.

I don't by any means have any barista experience (other than a year or two i worked in a bar).

However just thinking with my limited physics knowledge, is it possible that this is the case in the first video -> pressure rose to pump pressure as soon as the preinfusion started, due to the portafilter having the blind filter in it. Water has nowhere to go and the pressure immediately shows up on the gauge. However on the second and third video, where this does not happen, the water first fills all the gaps in between the coffee and thus does not raise the pressure inside, and does not cause the 3-way valve to open.

If the perfusion would bump 9 bars at the start, surely some coffee would leak out of the spout as it would be the path of least resistance. I would say that in the 3s as the preinfusion lasts, the pressure inside of the puck can not go as high, due to the limit of flow and micro air gaps in the puck...

On the other hand. Can anybody give me any first hand experience on Lelit Kate? I Really like the compact design and the features it has. Is the 38mm conical burr really that terrible? I would lean towards the Elizabeth, but that would probably take up to much of my counter space, cost 400 EUR more and I only make 2-3 coffees per day. 2 of them being espressos and one lathe. Can I expect a "decent bar-like" espresso from this particular machine?

Thank you all.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HiM said:


> would lean towards the Elizabeth, but that would probably take up to much of my counter space, cost 400 EUR more and I only make 2-3 coffees per day. 2 of them being espressos and one lathe. Can I expect a "decent bar-like" espresso from this particular machine?


 I have no experience with the Kate. But if you fancy the Elizabeth... go for it. You won't regret it. It's a far superior machine, in all aspects.

But do budget for a good grinder. An Eureka Mignon Specialità or the Niche Zero are great choices.


----------



## Zorkin

HiM said:


> Hello everybody. I am just in the process of pulling the trigger on a Lelit Kate.
> This topic about pre-infusion got me puzzled.
> I don't by any means have any barista experience (other than a year or two i worked in a bar).
> However just thinking with my limited physics knowledge, is it possible that this is the case in the first video -> pressure rose to pump pressure as soon as the preinfusion started, due to the portafilter having the blind filter in it. Water has nowhere to go and the pressure immediately shows up on the gauge. However on the second and third video, where this does not happen, the water first fills all the gaps in between the coffee and thus does not raise the pressure inside, and does not cause the 3-way valve to open.
> If the perfusion would bump 9 bars at the start, surely some coffee would leak out of the spout as it would be the path of least resistance. I would say that in the 3s as the preinfusion lasts, the pressure inside of the puck can not go as high, due to the limit of flow and micro air gaps in the puck...
> 
> On the other hand. Can anybody give me any first hand experience on Lelit Kate? I Really like the compact design and the features it has. Is the 38mm conical burr really that terrible? I would lean towards the Elizabeth, but that would probably take up to much of my counter space, cost 400 EUR more and I only make 2-3 coffees per day. 2 of them being espressos and one lathe. Can I expect a "decent bar-like" espresso from this particular machine?
> Thank you all.


On the Victoria in normal operation the pre infusion just fills the brew chamber and wets the puck. There is not enough flow for a pressure build up.


----------



## 27852

HiM said:


> Hello everybody. I am just in the process of pulling the trigger on a Lelit Kate.
> 
> This topic about pre-infusion got me puzzled.
> 
> I don't by any means have any barista experience (other than a year or two i worked in a bar).
> 
> However just thinking with my limited physics knowledge, is it possible that this is the case in the first video -> pressure rose to pump pressure as soon as the preinfusion started, due to the portafilter having the blind filter in it. Water has nowhere to go and the pressure immediately shows up on the gauge. However on the second and third video, where this does not happen, the water first fills all the gaps in between the coffee and thus does not raise the pressure inside, and does not cause the 3-way valve to open.
> 
> If the perfusion would bump 9 bars at the start, surely some coffee would leak out of the spout as it would be the path of least resistance. I would say that in the 3s as the preinfusion lasts, the pressure inside of the puck can not go as high, due to the limit of flow and micro air gaps in the puck...
> 
> On the other hand. Can anybody give me any first hand experience on Lelit Kate? I Really like the compact design and the features it has. Is the 38mm conical burr really that terrible? I would lean towards the Elizabeth, but that would probably take up to much of my counter space, cost 400 EUR more and I only make 2-3 coffees per day. 2 of them being espressos and one lathe. Can I expect a "decent bar-like" espresso from this particular machine?
> 
> Thank you all.


 You're correct that pressure would near immediately rise to whatever the OPV is set to using the blind basket (delay is based on the amount of time it takes for the headspace to be filled with water) and in practice it would take a little bit more time to fill the headspace as the puck will also absorb water - on my Elizabeth I see pressure start to rise at about 4s and it hits 2bar (will differ based on basket dose etc). However just because pressure rises rapidly does not mean the puck is fully saturated, it just means that the water flow has been inhibited by the coffee puck which has absorbed an indeterminate amount of water. My visual cue for proper preinfusion is all holes on the bottom of the filter basket beading/weeping coffee - this has meant a total preinfusion time of 18s at 2bar with the current coffee I am using.

Long story short, if you are interested in playing around with proper preinfusion then you can do so with an Elizabeth (plus all the other benefits associated with it), if this is a feature that matters to you a 3s prewetting and pump pause function is OK but it won't give you the flexibility for elevated results.


----------



## HiM

Thank you all for the replies.

At this point I am only looking for something that is OK and produces a decent espresso. Due to the lockdown in our country I could not get a decent espresso in the past 6 months. If I'll get interested in the coffe as a hobby I'll probably just sell the Kate and upgrade, or move it to my secondary apartment. I just figured out that the Elizabeth with a grinder would be more like double the price (or more than 600 GBP more).

I would say that it is something like this, please correct me if I am wrong and that diminishing returns do not apply in espresso machines: Cheap 300eur espresso machine setup would produce a 50% good espresso, something in the range of the Kate would get up to 90-95%, and for the remaning 5-10% of the experience the cost doubles?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HiM said:


> Thank you all for the replies.
> 
> At this point I am only looking for something that is OK and produces a decent espresso. Due to the lockdown in our country I could not get a decent espresso in the past 6 months. If I'll get interested in the coffe as a hobby I'll probably just sell the Kate and upgrade, or move it to my secondary apartment. I just figured out that the Elizabeth with a grinder would be more like double the price (or more than 600 GBP more).
> 
> I would say that it is something like this, please correct me if I am wrong and that diminishing returns do not apply in espresso machines: Cheap 300eur espresso machine setup would produce a 50% good espresso, something in the range of the Kate would get up to 90-95%, and for the remaning 5-10% of the experience the cost doubles?


 The grinder is the most important part. Yes, the Kate will be fine, and you might be able to sell it later on. After all, it's all relative as you say, and taste is subjective. Personally... it's one of those things. You start off thinking "that will do, it will sort me out for X numbers of years". And then you find out you come over here, see what other people have and how amazing their coffee is... and here you go... next thing you have is a machine you never thought in owning in a million years. Just see members upgrade path here (including myself). If you are decided snd want a stop gap, best to buy whatever you want and just stay away from these type of forums. 😉


----------



## HiM

Yea, I think I'm drawn into rabbit holes.😀 Most of my problems start when only 5% more gets you that, and another 7% that an so on.

At least I hope I made a better choice with this that with the Sage Barista Express, which was my first option.


----------



## HiM

Hello once again.

I received my Kate today, so if anybody is interested in a short first look review (as it is practically identical to the Victoria). Keep in mind that I do not have anything to compare it to.

It looks like a well built machine. The only things that are a little lacking are: the portafilter handle is plastic, and it has somewhat of a cheaper feel to it - however the metal part of it is really nice, the steam wand knob feels the same - a little lacking plastic feeling, and the lid on the filter has more of an Italian fit.😆

It heats up fast, also the steam is available quickly, it takes a little longer to cool down from steaming. There is a single hole steamer, it is quite powerful compared to a capsule machine I had before, but it does require some technique to get the milk right. I am currently lacking in that department.

Other than that it looks ok. I went trough 300g of coffee to dial it in - not exactly there yet, but close. First I think I was tamping to hard, had to go a bit coarser, then I eased on the tamping and have went finer. It is now at 30s (total time cca. 25s from first drip), to get approx. 35g of coffee. Had to stop my tuning there since I had to much caffeine in my body at that point. (And no I did not drink 300g of coffee, I was merely tasting it.) There is a lot of crema and it feels beefier that coffee at a local bar. I am currently using some cheap(er) Segafredo Selezione espresso (70 arabica 30 robusta), just to get the hang of it and I will probably switch to a 100% robusta afterwards since I liked it better at a bar here and I will try other more freshly roasted coffees.

The built in grinder seems ok and it is really quieter than I imagined. To be honest i think that the pump is actually louder than the grinder. 1 full turn of the grinder makes a difference of aprox. 0,5 bar on the gauge. The best shot until now was done at close to 10 bar at the gauge, that is probably closer to 9 at the puck? I am using aprox. 15,5g of coffee.

Any other advices that you can give me?🙃

Question: Can this Lelit plastic handle on the portafilter be unscrewed and changed with a wooden one?


----------



## hotCUPPA

DavecUK said:


> Alberto, I'd just leave it, let him have his say...after all he won't be in Milan with Lelit. I will sort it out with them when I'm there. There will either be a reason, or it might be fixable...at least I can get detail on the programming and schematic from those who designed it


 @DavecUK how was the trip to Milan?


----------



## DavecUK

hotCUPPA said:


> @DavecUK how was the trip to Milan?


 Covid put paid to that.... didn't go ahead


----------



## hotCUPPA

Sensible. I haven't been back there since the first lockdown either.

From what you have written it seems you work with Lelit on the Mara X development, is that correct?

I'm assuming you have raised the pre-infusion issue discussed here with Lelit, it's hard to ask you this without putting you or Lelit on the spot, but the issue is a deal breaker in my opinion, so I apologise for asking you this @DavecUK, but have they fixed it?

Cheers,


----------



## DavecUK

hotCUPPA said:


> I'm assuming you have raised the pre-infusion issue discussed here with Lelit, it's hard to ask you this without putting you or Lelit on the spot, but the issue is a deal breaker in my opinion, so I apologise for asking you this @DavecUK, but have they fixed it?
> 
> Cheers,


 Can you link to the post or remind me of the issue and machine. I only worked on Bianca, MaraX and Elizabeth. Not aware of a preinfusion issue?


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

DavecUK said:


> Not aware of a preinfusion issue


 I think the issue with the Victoria is that the group vents at the end of pre-infusion for whichever reason - unlike the Elizabeth.

Post:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53495-lelit-victoria-pl91t-peoples-thoughts/?do=embed&comment=800303&embedComment=800303&embedDo=findComment

Video:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/53495-lelit-victoria-pl91t-peoples-thoughts/?tab=comments&do=embed&comment=775788&embedComment=775788&embedDo=findComment#comment-775788


----------



## DavecUK

Ah, I remember, yes if I'm actually with them a some time in the future, I'll mention it. The Victoria is in a class of machines where I don't pay too much attention to. Just not enough time.

I would think they "might" well send me one if I asked...but I lack the time to pull it apart and work on it at the moment.


----------



## hotCUPPA

Cheers. I skipped through this thread hoping to find a post saying they had fixed it, that's why I asked.

I'll send them a message over the weekend hoping they have fixed it, if they haven't this raises so many questions that it's not even worth entertaining.


----------



## DavecUK

@hotCUPPA It's possible, they may lack a way on the Gicar board to switch the solenoid individually and it simply closes and opens on the same circuit as pump power....in which case, it's not a case of simple programming.


----------



## hotCUPPA

@DavecUK Sorry but if that's the case then I can't stop picturing the thousands of Victoria owners drinking pre-infused nuked black liquid...I believe you have now a moral duty to save them...by law.

Couldn't find a direct email, lelit.com/contact form spits an error message on Firefox and Chrome and lelit-uk.co.uk has a security warning (NET::ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID) so I sent it to [email protected], will share any updates.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

hotCUPPA said:


> @DavecUK Sorry but if that's the case then I can't stop picturing the thousands of Victoria owners drinking pre-infused nuked black liquid...I believe you have now a moral duty to save them...by law.
> 
> Couldn't find a direct email, lelit.com/contact form spits an error message on Firefox and Chrome and lelit-uk.co.uk has a security warning (NET::ERR_CERT_DATE_INVALID) so I sent it to [email protected], will share any updates.


 It is care at lelit dot com


----------



## KarlL

I thought it best to post here instead of beginning a new thread. I had ordered an Elizabeth, but for reasons unknown I've been informed it can't be shipped to where I live. I'm now considering ordering a Victoria, as it's on sale and can be shipped to me.

I would much welcome any advice or opinions about the Victoria. I do not make milk drinks, period. I make about 3 shots a day. But I do prefer the 58mm portafilter. I have a reasonably good grinder, an Anfim Caimano. It's not great, but I believe it will serve me until I upgrade.

What I am thinking is to buy the Victoria now and perhaps if I get comfortable with home barista work, I'll upgrade to a Bianca in a few years.

So, Is there anything necessary I'm giving up going with the Victoria instead of the Elizabeth?

Thank you all for any advice.


----------



## ting_tang

I know Elizabeth has a pressure profiling, configurable pre-infusion and such settings to play. Victoria looks like has a brute force pre-infusion according to this link. I'm not owner any of them, but if I would be an only espresso drinker, I would like to have such features, especially with a light and medium roasts.


----------



## KarlL

Thank you, ting_tang. I saw that post and several others. It's somewhat concerning. Pre-infusion would be nice. I'm also not able to determine if the pid is displaying actual water temperature in the boiler or not. There are definitely a lot of older posts that say it doesn't, but perhaps that's been resolved, as there are online shops that say it does.

If anyone who has a recent Victoria could verify if the real-time temperature is displayed, that would be very helpful.


----------



## HiM

An update to my Lelit Kate. I found a bug, that is getting on my nerves a bit. Since the grinder is so close to the whole machine and it is actually not in a different compartment, it gets hot when the machine gets hot. That means that if I leave the machine turned on for some time the temperature difference affects the grinder adjustment and it grinds coarser, meaning that the flow of coffee brewed lets say 1 hour later than the first on is 30% faster, which results in a coffee that is not as good as the first one...

Anybody considered putting some thermal shielding inside the coffee machine between the grinder and boiler?

I think that should be something done by Lelit in the first place. If I would not be single dosing, I cant imagine that heat doing wonders to coffee in the hopper...


----------



## MediumRoastSteam

HiM said:


> An update to my Lelit Kate. I found a bug, that is getting on my nerves a bit. Since the grinder is so close to the whole machine and it is actually not in a different compartment, it gets hot when the machine gets hot. That means that if I leave the machine turned on for some time the temperature difference affects the grinder adjustment and it grinds coarser, meaning that the flow of coffee brewed lets say 1 hour later than the first on is 30% faster, which results in a coffee that is not as good as the first one...
> 
> Anybody considered putting some thermal shielding inside the coffee machine between the grinder and boiler?
> 
> I think that should be something done by Lelit in the first place. If I would not be single dosing, I cant imagine that heat doing wonders to coffee in the hopper...


 This "bug" is no news. It's just expected, and, one of the reasons the recommendation is, if at all possible, avoid buying combos. Even with a self-standing grinder unit, completely separate from the machine, if you keep it too close it will get affected by the heat and humidity from the steam. And, in your case, I bet the built in grinder has a considerable amount of retention and, as you single dose, it will be very inconsistent. The grinder is not designed for single dosing. That alone will have some significant contribution to your "30%". It will be all over the show. The heat and humidity is doing wonders to the coffee retained inside, most likely.

The best you can do is to live with it and learn how to compensate by adjusting the grind (very annoying) or increasing the dose to match your expected timings.

PS: this thread is about the Lelit Victoria, not the Kate. 😉


----------



## Oliv7

I got Lelit Victoria just because the price was half off. With full price I would have saved up a bit more to get Lelit Elizabeth. In my opinion the Lelit Victoria is not worth for full retail price, because the PID and pre-infusion are both half-baked.


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## Matagalpa

Does the shot timer in the current version of the Victoria count up or down?


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## rsn4534

Seems to me folks challenged the pre-infusion demo video as it was done without coffee in the portafilter basket. Also concerning the countdown versus the count up, any decent scale used when pulling a shot works just fine, including the $16 cheap ones.


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