# IMS shower screen



## kypros (Aug 2, 2020)

Hello all,

will I get better water dispersion if I changed my original Isomac Tea shower screen to an IMS one?

If this works, is it recommended to change the original basket to an IMS for still better results?

Thank you.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Do you have a problem with dispersion ? Are you judging by the flow without the P/F in place ? OR are you having disturbance in the puck , eg holes


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## kypros (Aug 2, 2020)

El carajillo said:


> Do you have a problem with dispersion ? Are you judging by the flow without the P/F in place ? OR are you having disturbance in the puck , eg holes


 Thank you,

I do not have a problem with dispersion at the screen, but all the videos I've watched so far seem to recommend the IMS screen over the stock one.

What I'm aiming at, is making my coffee as tasty as possible.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Well....

In my humble opinion,

These "Upgrades" are a load of bollox designed to get your money out of your wallet.

They look nice though.

The shower screen just acts as a removable and cleanable boundary between puck and boiler bottom and does nothing at all in the brew process.

The baskets is an arguable one, but again, unless you've a very badly made one, i couldn't see any difference they make being noticable tbh

YMMV.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kypros said:


> Hello all,
> 
> will I get better water dispersion if I changed my original Isomac Tea shower screen to an IMS one?
> 
> ...


 *In my own experience *after a couple of years in use on two very different machines (edit: so, about 2 years on each machine) - *not* my humble opinion - The IMS E61 and the IMS shower screen for the La Pavoni are a worthwhile upgrade. Not because they improve taste or water flow - I have no way to measure that - but they do improve two things:

- Less fines going back to the group: After a few days on an E61 machine, the IMS one is much cleaner than the stock one, on the other side (back of the screen);
- It's easier to brush and keep it clean: Unlike the stock screen, the mesh/membrane is integrated to the screen, and not over the screen.



Blue_Cafe said:


> The shower screen just acts as a removable and cleanable boundary between puck and boiler bottom and does nothing at all in the brew process.


 That's not the case in an Isomac Tea or an E61 group. The boiler bottom is nowhere near the group or the brew chamber.


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

Blue_Cafe said:


> Well....
> 
> In my humble opinion,
> 
> ...


 Well, I have to ask - what caused you to form this humble opinion? Some experience, some research, something you read, something else?

Personally, I've not felt the need to change my stock Profitec/ECM screens or baskets yet - but may do if evidence leads me to.

Regards,
John


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Ozzyjohn said:


> Well, I have to ask - what caused you to form this humble opinion? Some experience, some research, something you read, something else?
> 
> Personally, I've not felt the need to change my stock Profitec/ECM screens or baskets yet - but may do if evidence leads me to.
> 
> ...


 Basic principles of engineering.


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## kypros (Aug 2, 2020)

Thank you all for the answers, in my mind it seems if the screen disperses the water all along its surface, it will pre-infuse the puck below better than just a flow of water running from the middle of the screen.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

kypros said:


> Thank you all for the answers, in my mind it seems if the screen disperses the water all along its surface, it will pre-infuse the puck below better than just a flow of water running from the middle of the screen.


 That's the idea..

Look at the two screens side/side and you will see that the IMS screen have seemingly less free space (hole area if you will) than the standard.

however, in reality i suspect it matters not. As water enters the brew voids from the boiler, it does so pretty much instantly. In any system, pressure is equal in all parts (excluding hydrostatic losses, friction blah blah blah) so the puck cares not.

As MRS says, the only real advantage is that the screen may stop smaller particles from crossing the boundary and this may aid in cleaning but then again may not as those particles can't then get flushed back out.

I'm quite happy to hear a decent technical argument for these things, so if anyone has one, post it up.


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## Ozzyjohn (May 31, 2020)

Blue_Cafe said:


> As MRS says, the only real advantage is that the screen may stop smaller particles from crossing the boundary and this may aid in cleaning but then again may not as those particles can't then get flushed back out.
> 
> I'm quite happy to hear a decent technical argument for these things, so if anyone has one, post it up.


 If it stops the smaller particles crossing the boundary, why would it be a concern that those particles can not get flushed back out? If they can't get in, we surely don't need to suggest that a replacement screen would prevent them from getting out (unless, of course you don't clean the machine before installing the new screen - but that seems rather an odd way to proceed).

Regards,
John


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Ozzyjohn said:


> If it stops the smaller particles crossing the boundary, why would it be a concern that those particles can not get flushed back out? If they can't get in, we surely don't need to suggest that a replacement screen would prevent them from getting out (unless, of course you don't clean the machine before installing the new screen - but that seems rather an odd way to proceed).
> 
> Regards,
> John


 Well, which way is flow and when and how tbh. Also it doesn't stop all the particles, just reduces the sizes.

Normal flow is boiler -> out until the expansion valve opens and then the flow reverses across the boundary. But not all flow reverses across the boundary, it's only the water volume from expansion after depressurisation, so the crud picked up on decompression and pushed through the screen doesn't leave the chamber. It then gets either pushed back out during brew/flush or not. Over the period of use, the screen begins to clog, acting as a self reducing filter to the point eventually that you would get blockage.

So i would argue, don't worry about it. If the holes are big enough for fines to flow both ways, it will balance itself out anyway. The bigger the holes, the better. And also the less back pressure which is always a good thing.

So, like i say, i don't really see the point of them. (On a Gaggia anyways)


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Makes a difference on the La Pavoni, whether it will on other machines may vary.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

TomHughes said:


> Makes a difference on the La Pavoni, whether it will on other machines may vary.


 What differences are those Tom?

(genuinely interested btw)


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Blue_Cafe said:


> What differences are those Tom?
> 
> (genuinely interested btw)


 A few really. 
1. So the holes are smaller, which means less crud gets up behind it. On the few occasions I've removed it there was nothing to clean off it and I make 4-5 drinks a day. 
This is right PITA with the la pavoni so this is a massive win.

2. The water distribution is more even. This is evident in both the view of the extraction from the naked PF but also the reduction in channeling which is very obvious on the LP with a pressure kit.

3. As you pull the lever up water gushes in, this needs to be around 0.8 bar on my machine, because I have the water dipper mod, this helps displace air and stop a spongy pull. 
With the regular screen this can cause pits in the puck and channeling, this hasn't happened with the IMS.

So for those reasons it was a £15 very very well spent!


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Edit - Tom beat me to it with a better answer 👍

The IMS baskets typically have more holes than a standard screen with a more standardised siding of them. Potentially also smaller in size holes as well.

Made my pours more consistent on a classic, Mara and Pavoni, which has helped with the taste.


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Well you can't argue with results so I shall stand corrected :good:

I'll order a set myself and see how I get on with them


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

Their baskets are also similar, more smaller holes and straighter sides. Gives less dead spots and a more even flow.

Just the standard ones are fine, I reckon the "nano" coated ones are a bit suspect due to all the coffee gunk and harsh cleaning.


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## Jasetaylor (Jul 31, 2020)

So what is the general consensus on IMS vs VST baskets?

I've ordered an IMS shower screen but am poised on the IMS & VST conundrum, I'm after an 18g basket but still cant decide.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Jasetaylor said:


> So what is the general consensus on IMS vs VST baskets?
> 
> I've ordered an IMS shower screen but am poised on the IMS & VST conundrum, I'm after an 18g basket but still cant decide.


 Get VSTs. I have both. I don't rate the IMS ones. I find the VST ones are much better, much more clarity in the cup. IMHO, I feel IMS are improved versions of stock baskets. VSTs are something different.

Granted, both have straight walls.

vst









ims


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

On the shower screen business, for an E61.... IMS shower screens are worth every penny.


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## Rhys (Dec 21, 2014)

VST seam to be more popular. Can't remember off hand but isn't one more finicky to get right so your puck prep has to be better?

A note on the IMS screens. If they are coated, then remove them and replace with a standard screen if you are using coffee detergent to backflush as it'll knacker the coating on the IMS. Plain water backflushing is ok though. Just a thought as it mentions this in my machine's manual.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Get VSTs. I have both. I don't rate the IMS ones. I find the VST ones are much better, much more clarity in the cup. IMHO, I feel IMS are improved versions of stock baskets. VSTs are something different.
> 
> Granted, both have straight walls.
> 
> ...


 wish they had 49mm VST baskets!


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@TomHughes - The 51mm IMS one has been more then "good enough" on my Pav, a decent improvement on the stock basket and can dose up to 16g on a light bean. Also pleasantly surprised a cheap Motta 52mm tamper turns out to be the perfect fit as they are a bit oversized.

If you don't have a 49mm IMS one already, I reckon you should get the upgrade. They are about a 1/3 of the price compared to the VSTs so not that expensive.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Blue_Cafe If you are trying for a "Pepsi challenge" style test with an IMS shower screen and say a VST basket you would need to tweak the grind on the beans a bit to get the most out of your new kit as it isn't a straight swap.

Have you got a bottomless portafilter to look at the flow and any dead spots etc.?


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## Blue_Cafe (Jun 22, 2020)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Blue_Cafe If you are trying for a "Pepsi challenge" style test with an IMS shower screen and say a VST basket you would need to tweak the grind on the beans a bit to get the most out of your new kit as it isn't a straight swap.
> 
> Have you got a bottomless portafilter to look at the flow and any dead spots etc.?


 No, no BPF as of yet. Thats next on my ebay list.

Interesting thread popped up on Reddit this morning:

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/index.php?app=core&module=system&controller=embed&url=https://www.reddit.com/r/gaggiaclassic/comments/i7ujwo/soupy_pucks_after_installing_ims_shower_screen/


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Blue_Cafe - Yeah, it can be different. That was why I put you might need to tweak your dose and grind size in my earlier post. They didn't mention how it tasted either.

Wet pucks aren't the end of the world though as long as it tastes nice. I've had rubbish shots with bone dry pucks and fab ones where there is more water left than you would really want.

Its not like you are running a cafe and need to do 20 back to back shots with minimal brushing between portafilter rinses or anything.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Blue_Cafe said:


> No, no BPF as of yet. Thats next on my ebay list.
> 
> Interesting thread popped up on Reddit this morning:


I get pretty soggy pucks from my IMS. More so than with the standard screen and basket.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @TomHughes - The 51mm IMS one has been more then "good enough" on my Pav, a decent improvement on the stock basket and can dose up to 16g on a light bean. Also pleasantly surprised a cheap Motta 52mm tamper turns out to be the perfect fit as they are a bit oversized.
> 
> If you don't have a 49mm IMS one already, I reckon you should get the upgrade. They are about a 1/3 of the price compared to the VSTs so not that expensive.


 I may get the IMS 49mm, annoyingly they don't seem to do the deeper one? So it's this one. 
https://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/IMS-Pavoni-Lever-49mm-Competition-Double-Filter-Basket---B582TH22/m-3797.aspx

Which isn't very deep.

I tend to use what I think is an electra basket which takes about 16-17g. 
These ones are about 12.5-14g.


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## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

That is a lot of coffee for a Pav! Shame they aren't a bit bigger, even one of the Espresso Shop reviews mentioned "I wish it was 2mm deeper".


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

The sweet spot for me was 15.5g in a Millennium basket. The IMS made no difference to the stock basket. in the FB group for Pavoni, some people dose like 20g on deeper baskets... How do they get so much water through that puck I'm not sure (Felini maybe?). But if they are happy, they are happy 

To keep on topic... The IMS shower screen was worth the while. 🙂


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

My La Pav game has gone up a huge notch with the addition of a filter paper on top of the puck.

May negate the need for an IMS screen but the two together seems to make a huge difference.

With the larger basket and current water mod I get 17g and 42 out which works perfectly for extraction of the lighter roasted beans


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> My La Pav game has gone up a huge notch with the addition of a filter paper on top of the puck.


 In which way?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> In which way?


 More consistent stream, particularly with lighter roasts, better taste, less sour notes etc. I was still getting the odd bit of channeling sometimes but that's all fixed.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

TomHughes said:


> More consistent stream, particularly with lighter roasts, better taste, less sour notes etc. I was still getting the odd bit of channeling sometimes but that's all fixed.


 Very good. Next, cut an Aeropress paper to the basket diameter and put that at the bottom of the basket, then grind and tamp normally. It's a totally different flavour in the cup, very clean.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Very good. Next, cut an Aeropress paper to the basket diameter and put that at the bottom of the basket, then grind and tamp normally. It's a totally different flavour in the cup, very clean.


 Yeh I did try that but didn't actually like what I got, nice taste but less body.


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