# Help, this is harder than I thought!



## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Hi Guys and Gals.

I've got my new and first real set up. I bought a La Pavoni Europiccola of Ebay and Ferrari's in Bridgend have just serviced it. I've also bought the La Cimbali Magnum that Grahamg was selling. I went to the local coffee shop that also roasts its beans, had two espresso's yesterday and bought the same beans so I could compare. So this morning up and ready armed with all the gear (clearly no idea) I've managed some terrible coffee.

On my last attempt I had a bit of crema on the sides of the cup and a bit floating but the espresso was watery and bitter. How I set up, 13g in the basket, the pull was 46 seconds don't know if I'm pulling to hard or too slow but this felt comfortable. On the attempt before the grind was half a turn finer and the arm of the machine was bending as I pulled it through coffee was also rubbish.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Grind coarser


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

You don't mention your output weight?

If grinding 13g it should be approximately 26g of coffee (but this can go up/down when fine tuning taste). It is a good guide to start at a 1:2 ratio.

46 seconds is likely too long and contributing to the bitterness of the coffee, although be aware it can be very difficult to distinguish bitterness from sourness with coffee, especially as you get closer to the right set up for a particular bean.

Watery flavour could be that your output weight is too high, but you need to weigh this to be sure.

There are likely nuances and separate techniques for pulling a shot with a small lever like the Pavoni, plenty of users on here who should be able to advise further, but I think you are aiming for a small thick shot.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks guys I will try coarser. I forgot to measure the output weight until I took a sip and it would have been over 26g. The goal is a short syrupy shot. I'll have another crack when I get back in


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Where are you based?


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## Jacko112 (Oct 29, 2015)

Grind finer. I'm one of those heathens that don't weigh or dose with my lever. However it is rare that I now get a bad espresso. I gauge the amount I grind by eye, tamp firmly insert the portafilter & lift the lever. I now wait for a few seconds, almost a pre infuse if you like, until I see a couple of drops coming into the cup it's then I pull the lever 3 times till I get a cup full. It's always got a good crema & a thickness to it.

Took me about a week to get to producing a good cup so it's worth perusing.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Weigh input and weigh output , then when you have achieved what you are looking for you have the necessary information to repeat .

Source,Grind,input,time,output,repeat


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Scotford said:


> Grind coarser





Jacko112 said:


> Grind finer.


Making coffee is the best


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Don't give any advice until we know all the facts


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

garydyke1 said:


> Don't give any advice until we know all the facts


good advice .LOL


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Thecatlinux said:


> good advice .LOL


But did he have all the facts about us not having the facts?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Right just got back and now the grinder won't work. I've put the beans in turned the power on, the light comes on but nothing is happening


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Back off the adjuster for the grind as you may have inadvertently jammed some whole or part bean between the burrs if adjusting whilst the grinder not running? if this does not work then can you turn the burrs by hand from the top (power off)?

John


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks John. I've tried loosening the grinder but no joy. I can't get to the burs so I'll unscrew the casing on top and have a look


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

It's not something silly like the hopper not being in place correctly?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

It was something silly. I took the top burr off and everything was fine. I then asked Graham who I bought it from and there's two wires in the doser that need to be connected and they weren't. At least it gave me a chance to re set the dial and take the collar off.

Starting over again I've had two attempts and the grind is too fine. Couldn't even pull the handle down the first time.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

New day new go. I adjusted the dial on the La Cimbali Magnum so 0.5 is burrs touching. Last night I tried it at grind setting 7 and I couldn't even pull the handle of the pavoni down so I moved to 10.5 and the outcome wasn't great.

This morning I have set the grind at 11.5, 13g in the basket, 32 second pull with 33g output in cup. Little to no crema and grainy in the cup. Next attempt grind setting 12.5, 13g in basket, 26 second pull and 34.4g in cup. This is what it looks like








Tastes about as good as it looks so any suggestions would be much appreciated.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Those ratios are huge, you should be aiming for around 20g from a 13g dose on a pavoni. Go finer still even if you need to put the effort into the pull


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## jimbojohn55 (Jan 15, 2016)

I'm in a similar position experimenting with a pre millennium pav - If this helps I'm trying to vent the false pressure 5secs with the lever partially raised which is giving me around 23g wet from 13g dry, coffee is now slightly ahead of gaggia - just

Ladies and Gentleman I welcome your thoughts ..................


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

coffeechap said:


> Those ratios are huge, you should be aiming for around 20g from a 13g dose on a pavoni. Go finer still even if you need to put the effort into the pull


So I'm well out. I'll go finer and see what happens.


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## Hal.E.Lujah (Aug 19, 2014)

Nopapercup said:


> So I'm well out. I'll go finer and see what happens.


Whilst it does sound like grinding is what you need to get right, I just wanted to check if you're doing the following too;

- Warming the machine up

- Using the lever correctly (Nothing embarrassing about getting it wrong at first)

- Tamping right? Too hard a puck combined with too much pressure from the lever can lead to a channel.

Don't give up hope. I was awful with my first lever machine for a shameful amount of time, and actually first started browsing these forums for advice lol. I cracked it eventually using





.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Something isn't right. I've gone finer 9.5 on my grinder which gave me an output of 27g then tried 8.5g had to really pull hard to get it through, didn't tamp too hard and got 30g out. I tried 7.5 on the grinder last night and couldn't pull through, could try 8 but would have to hang on it.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I've watched a load of videos on youtube including the SCG one. I'm warming up the machine for 20 min, not sure if I'm using the lever correctly or not. I'm pulling it up, leaving it up between 10 and 20 seconds and then pulling it down which is taking over 30 seconds depending on grind. Trying not to tamp too hard.


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## Hal.E.Lujah (Aug 19, 2014)

Nopapercup said:


> I've watched a load of videos on youtube including the SCG one. I'm warming up the machine for 20 min, not sure if I'm using the lever correctly or not. I'm pulling it up, leaving it up between 10 and 20 seconds and then pulling it down which is taking over 30 seconds depending on grind. Trying not to tamp too hard.


That sounds like you're doing it right... Maybe hold it up for slightly less time, and really apply the pressure for a shot? See if it helps?

Personally I have to put my hand on the screw for the boiler to hold the machine down whilst I pull, so I'm applying enough pressure to get a good yield. My girlfriend can't even use it because she finds it too exerting. I'm sure others on here will say I'm being too rough with it, but it's the only way I could get a decent shot comparable to my other machines.

It probably isn't this based on what you've said, (that you got them from a decent place) but is it worth considering the beans aren't great? Have you tried any alternatives? Some freshly roasted beans should be hard to not get crema from..


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I got the beans from a coffee shop called the Roastery on Wandsworth Rd in London. They roast on site, I had two espresso in the cafe with the beans and they where roasted 3 weeks ago but they are the only ones I've tried.


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## Bruce Boogie (Dec 1, 2014)

Don't worry

When you start to get it right it gets easier and better. Remember learning to drive?

Relax, buy more beans, keep everything clean and tidy and be methodical ~ nothing worse than getting it GREAT and not knowing what you did.

It will be FABULOUS

Be patient.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks Bruce, I'll get some more beans and keep persevering


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

How fresh are the beans?


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

TomBurtonArt said:


> How fresh are the beans?


Just over three weeks


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## TomBurtonArt (Jan 18, 2015)

Three weeks since roast date is fine so that rules that out.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nopapercup said:


> Just over three weeks


How did you store it ?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

How much retention does the grinder have , is enough being purged between grind changes?


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## Bruce Boogie (Dec 1, 2014)

I used over 2kg of beans getting the grind right on my first grinder ~ I was moving the dial 1mm at a time and it took about three whole turns to get even close. I'm a bit better now, but I tend to stay with the same beans. You have the reward of owning a beautiful looking machine which is taking a while to tame ~ think of it as a used Ferrari with a few under the bonnet difficulties


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

Thanks for the tips guys and sorry for taking so long to reply, I've been a bit under the weather and didn't have a coffee for a week. Back and experimenting again.


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## Dayks (Nov 19, 2016)

Nopapercup said:


> Thanks for the tips guys and sorry for taking so long to reply, I've been a bit under the weather and didn't have a coffee for a week. Back and experimenting again.


No wonder you are under the weather, if you haven't had a coffee for a week ?.

Hope you can get everything working for you, I suspect it will just take a lot of practice.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

I know can't remember the last time I went this long without coffee. The scary thing was the thought of coffee made me feel sick. Fortunately that has passed!


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## fishy1111 (Dec 11, 2016)

Sorry for this but did Ferrari service the machine at your place? Im trying to find someone to service my machine here and they are pretty local to me. You should try their beans- i love them..

sent..... by me.


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## Nopapercup (Nov 6, 2016)

fishy1111 said:


> Sorry for this but did Ferrari service the machine at your place? Im trying to find someone to service my machine here and they are pretty local to me. You should try their beans- i love them..
> 
> sent..... by me.


sorry only just saw this. I took the machine to Ferrari's when I was in Swansea. They where great to deal with, really friendly.


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