# Flat white error



## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

I like to think I've reached a point where I can make a decent spro. I weigh in and out, consistent good naked pours with relatively stable temperature. It tastes as good as I can get anywhere else anyway.

They say that milk hides all sins, I rarely have milky drinks (once every few days).

When I foam the milk I get it thick and silky with no obvious separation of foamed and unfoamed milk. Temp wise I hold the bottom of the jug until it is in the earliest stage of getting hot and then stop.

When I make a flat white in my acme cup I use 18g in 36 out espresso and top with this foamed milk. However the taste I get is often bitter and smoky, despite these flavours not being overtly problematic in the spro. In short the milky drink tastes worse.

What am I doing wrong?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

igm45 said:


> I like to think I've reached a point where I can make a decent spro. I weigh in and out, consistent good naked pours with relatively stable temperature. It tastes as good as I can get anywhere else anyway.
> 
> They say that milk hides all sins, I rarely have milky drinks (once every few days).
> 
> ...


So the epresso on its own is good?

Hurrah, drink espresso then!









What coffee are you using, is this smokyness consistent across a batch of different coffeea when making milk drinks?

Lastly what does the milk taste like on its own after steaming.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

igm45 said:


> I like to think I've reached a point where I can make a decent spro. I weigh in and out, consistent good naked pours with relatively stable temperature. It tastes as good as I can get anywhere else anyway.
> 
> They say that milk hides all sins, I rarely have milky drinks (once every few days).
> 
> ...


Can you draw a Rosetta or a leaf, or a polar bear, or a swan, or a Christmas tree, or a heart with the textured milk you made on the espresso?

Joke aside, being able to do some kind of latte art indicates that the milk texturing is good.

If you can; maybe it is just your taste buds?

If you go to a good coffee shop and order a flat white, do you enjoy it?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> So the epresso on its own is good?
> 
> Hurrah, drink espresso then!


It is rather lovely on its on, I've spent a lot of time (and money) working on this and 95% of my drinks are neat espresso.



Mrboots2u said:


> What coffee are you using, is this smokyness consistent across a batch of different coffeea when making milk drinks?


Yes it is. Have tried DSOL, LSOL, blends and medium. I can have cracking spro's like the current DSOL and the last LSOL that result in the same taste in the cup



Mrboots2u said:


> Lastly what does the milk taste like on its own after steaming.


Never tried it, will do so soon and update you.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

try to cut the espresso shot at around 26-30 g and use a thermometer for milk if possible, also for milk suck less air, you don't want it too thick


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Did you try tasting milk? I've read that advice and it just changed so much. It should be quite sweet.

That, and I found that the TempTag I am using is a bit pointless. I tried to reach the required temperature (65C), but it was too hot for me and wasn't as tasty.

I might not doing it right according to someone, but if I enjoy it and can do some latte art, I guess I'm not doing it too wrong?


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## RDC8 (Dec 6, 2016)

Another quick thought, How much milk are you actually using? You say you "top" with foamed milk; well an espresso topped with just a dollop of foamed milk is a macchiato, while an espresso and milk in equal quantities is a cortado (yes, possibly also sometimes know as a gibralta). Your flattie should be around 1/3 espresso with 2/3 steamed milk (not frothed) to give a drink of around 190ml (7oz?). Also, the original flattie uses a double-shot of espresso, thats around 60ml (2oz) of liquid. Hope this helps


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

@RDC8 In this instance I'm talking about an acme flat white cup, so 150ml with 36g espresso.

Same taste in my 190ml illy cups though.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Can you draw a Rosetta or a leaf, or a polar bear, or a swan, or a Christmas tree, or a heart with the textured milk you made on the espresso?
> 
> Joke aside, being able to do some kind of latte art indicates that the milk texturing is good.
> 
> ...


I don't really try with latte art, but I think it could make some form of pattern. Whilst it doesn't have large bubbles it is probably on the thicker side.

Most times I order an espresso when I'm out as that gives me the best idea of the coffee shop. However I do enjoy a flattie when made correctly.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Concentrate on making a tasty milk drink with not alot of foam , dont get drawn into " what a flat is or should be " or you will be here forever making different peoples interpretations.. which in the end count for nowt if you don't like the taste of it.

You like the taste of your espresso , so dont go shifting to 60 ml as some kind of measure of a double shot , as it will be too far of your preference ..

There is a valid point on espresso to milk ratio but only in the sense that , it should be tasty for you and again not what the coffee lizards tell you it should be .

Make a drink , make it tasty , call it Nigel for all we care ( old school joke there forumites ),


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stanic said:


> try to cut the espresso shot at around 26-30 g and use a thermometer for milk if possible, also for milk suck less air, you don't want it too thick


Thanks, it may be that the milk is too thick. It is around double its initial volume. No big bubble bath bubbles though


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

PPapa said:


> Did you try tasting milk? I've read that advice and it just changed so much. It should be quite sweet.
> 
> That, and I found that the TempTag I am using is a bit pointless. I tried to reach the required temperature (65C), but it was too hot for me and wasn't as tasty.
> 
> I might not doing it right according to someone, but if I enjoy it and can do some latte art, I guess I'm not doing it too wrong?


I will try the milk next time I make one. I too tried a thermometer and found that 65 degrees was way too hot


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

igm45 said:


> Thanks, it may be that the milk is too thick. It is around double its initial volume. No big bubble bath bubbles though


no big bubbles is great, shows that you can froth properly,

yeah, if it doubles it has enough foam for cappuccino already

using the thermometer you can really make a step forward, ensuring consistency, say for a flat white suck the air in until 24°C and stop rolling at 50°C max, the milk should not be too foamy and will be very sweet


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## icom102 (Aug 7, 2017)

I was having trouble the milk i was using was semi skimmed i tried full milk and they taste better


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Problem shared and all that.

I have created a video, sorry for the shoddy cameramanship. The milk had a few bigger bubbles than usual but it isn't too far off my usual efforts.

Milk tasted nice and sweet, actually the resultant cup wasn't too bad either.

I've made the video so may as well seek help while I'm at it.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

too long air-sucking phase for a flat white imo, also why not actually use the thermometer?


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

Stanic said:


> too long air-sucking phase for a flat white imo, also why not actually use the thermometer?


Because it just gets in the way


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## DaveP (Jul 14, 2017)

> Because it just gets in the way


Ergo.. throw it away, the finger on the jug method (.004 seconds before it $%&*£ hurts) is just right


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

When I do milk I get it swirling round as I'm stretching and heating which seems to work for the DTP. Obviously your machine had way more steam power so it may not work how I do mine.


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## igm45 (Mar 5, 2017)

joey24dirt said:


> When I do milk I get it swirling round as I'm stretching and heating which seems to work for the DTP. Obviously your machine had way more steam power so it may not work how I do mine.


Thanks mate, will give it a go next time.


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