# Naked Portafilter splutter



## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

I have been using naked portafilter with my Rocket R58 for sometime now, I think it is a 21g basket it came with. Works well generally, my question relates to how can stop it from spluttering/spraying. I guess its when it takes a long time to form one continuous stream you get little smaller streams off that make a mess.

Is there a simple reason why this happens?


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Right grinder settings, right distribution and amount of coffee, proper tamping and it should be fine.

The bad think about naked holders is that if only one of these is not correct, you get messy shot more or less.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

What is your shot preparation and what is your recipe?

By shot preparation I mean do you do anything apart from grinding and tamping?

Recipe wise, how many grams of coffee are you using, what is the output weight and time?


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

I thought that be the case one thing out and its messy.

Set to 7.5 secs, between 1-2 on grind setting and tend to adjust as see grind vary depending on age of bean.

I think ultimately its down to not enough in basket and not fine enough, will go back to weighing it to.

Is a 21g basket to.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Purge, Prep, distribution, prep, distribution, prep, level and tamp.


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## ATZ (Aug 4, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Purge, Prep, distribution, prep, distribution, prep, level and tamp.


This.

As Soon as I paid more attention to prep and distribution I get zero spurty naked PF shots.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Purge, Prep, distribution, prep, distribution, prep, level and tamp.


I'm so glad you said that. I thought I was being too picky/slow/over-whatever with my prep & distribution stage.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Umm what do i purge? ok with rest of it but need to be more consistent and better distribution.


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## RobW (Dec 24, 2017)

I use an 18g VST on my R58 with a Londinium distribution tool and an OCD tool and I get absolutely no issues. 99% of extractions look fantastic. If you get your routine right it really isn't hard.


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

I have a 21g basket I use with my naked portafilter from time to time. While it doesn't happen often, I have found the odd bean needing more coffee (sometimes as much as 24g) to get a decent fill height.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

lee1980 said:


> I have been using naked portafilter with my Rocket R58 for sometime now, I think it is a 21g basket it came with. Works well generally, my question relates to how can stop it from spluttering/spraying. I guess its when it takes a long time to form one continuous stream you get little smaller streams off that make a mess.
> 
> Is there a simple reason why this happens?


End to end Vid with your shot prep and the pour would be handy to see,...especially for diagnostics/advice.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Will try on weekend, though lighting is terrible to see clearly. I tried finer and got 20g weight in there but it feels like far to much and then takes for ever to push through. At around 18g in 21g basket seemed better and 3rd one I did it went to a nice stream real quickly. I gave up weighing in the past and just did it by eye as found the beans varied (Italian job from Rave) getting same blend each time but i guess depending on how long left they vary then in grind.

I would keep number of seconds on grinder the same but adjust grind until i get a nice mountain that doesn't over spill to much.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Purge, Prep, distribution, prep, distribution, prep, level and tamp.


Out of curiosity, you see many times that people don't do as much "prep, distribution" (sometimes none), why do their shots come out fine?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

If you look at a naked PF extraction, it will squirt coffee at you or you'll have the walls of your house painted.

You'll see black spots and you'll see what only parts of the holes are actually letting water through.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

I'm not following how that answers my question?


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Dr Forinor said:


> I'm not following how that answers my question?


Sorry. I now understood you question. What do you mean by no prep?

Bear in mind they high end grinders do the distribution for you.

For example, if with my grinder, I don't stir the grinds in the basket, I get a bad extraction. With a high end grinder, you do not need to do this.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Sorry. I now understood you question. What do you mean by no prep?
> 
> Bear in mind they high end grinders do the distribution for you.
> 
> For example, if with my grinder, I don't stir the grinds in the basket, I get a bad extraction. With a high end grinder, you do not need to do this.


I'm stirring . . .


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

By no prep I mean I don't see them fluffing up the coffee in the basket. But yeh, a good grinder answers that question I suppose. Thanks.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

MildredM said:


> I'm stirring . . .


Yes... but that's on the monolith right? I meant to say high end hopper fed commercial grinders.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Dr Forinor said:


> Out of curiosity, you see many times that people don't do as much "prep, distribution" (sometimes none), why do their shots come out fine?


It's because it depends on a number of factors.

1. The type (varietal) and roast level of coffee (because they all have to be ground differently (finer/coarser) and some coffees absorb water better/faster than others

2. The type of basket (not single or double) I mean the type of double etc..and diameter of basket.

3. The application of brew pressure

4. The temperature

5. Distribution

6. Tamping

It would be fair to say that distribution and tamping are not major factors, but a small part of the whole. I often don't bother distributing, but the shots still come out fine. Perversely, your more likely to have an easier job on a vibe pump machine as opposed to a rotary pumped machine, due to the slow pressure ramp. So there is not a single answer to the question, but broadly speaking you cannot put all the success criteria down to distribution.

P.S. All my early Niche shots had no stirring, but I didn't really get problems.


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

DavecUK said:


> It's because it depends on a number of factors.
> 
> 1. The type (varietal) and roast level of coffee (because they all have to be ground differently (finer/coarser) and some coffees absorb water better/faster than others
> 
> ...


Hehe, ok I did not realise that any of those points 1-4 affected the smooth flow at the end. Thank you Dave, again


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## Olliehulla (Feb 26, 2013)

lee1980 said:


> I thought that be the case one thing out and its messy.
> 
> Set to 7.5 secs, between 1-2 on grind setting and tend to adjust as see grind vary depending on age of bean.
> 
> ...


As a fellow 65e owner, I'm surprised that you get anywhere enough ground coffee in that time and at that setting (acknowledging that machines will vary and also depends on bean). Mine is set to about 11.5secs on 2.5 grind setting (Rave Chatwood blend) and I'm getting approx 19g into an 18g VST. Are you sure you're putting enough coffee in the basket ? Have you weighed like everyone else has said ?


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Thanks after some trying on weekend I think maybe going to fine a grind to, forgot to do any vids and keep forgetting to weigh before I start!!! Need some better scale to mine seem to vary depending on where porta filter i placed. Need flatter bigger scale.

Another thing I noticed is the stream of coffee sometimes pulses, and like stops and starts, maybe this is the pump as its to fine and working to hard, should be continuous flow i guess.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Still getting random spurts from naked basket, sometimes its like many spurts that sort of shower inside of walls of glass, other times its on tiny pin size stream shooting out the top of cup and going everywhere.

Is there one typical cause for this?, been trying to be more consistent will all weighing and tamp pressure etc. Just seems random, one time it will build to one nice thick flow stream no spurts clean glass etc, other times just the 1 tiny spurt!!


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

Do you stir your grounds with a whisk at all?

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## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

It's still likely just your puck prep. Do you stir grinds? Are you now weighing your grinds with a better scale? Maybe try a different basket too, the triple baskets that come with naked portafilter are often pretty rubbish quality.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

I had been stirring with finder as it falls in basket, perhaps not best way! ah ok i think its 21gm that came with rocket naked porta filter handle. Which basket be a good upgrade?

I need to weigh more especially when new beans are added. I was getting the kickstartes scales on here, forget what called now, but need something better.


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

I got some brilliant scales from amazon. They have a built in timer too which is handy.

Personally I would grab an IMS basket, the 12-18 gram I think it is. Dose depending on bean and stir well before tamping 

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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

+1 for IMS - just be aware to grind finer compared to a standard basket.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Thanks Joey any links to scales?


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## joey24dirt (Jan 28, 2017)

bemece Digital Kitchen Scale Drip Coffee Scale with Timer, 3 kg/0.1 g Kitchen Food Scale with Tare Function, Batteries Included (Blue) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07D4MVPQB/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ud8uDbYAAGZ43

That's them. I've had mine a few months now and they are great. Granted I don't use them daily but when first dialling in a new brand they are spot on. Just watch the timer though as it will just run on and on until you stop it 

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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Thanks Joey,

Yeah I guess, its a definite should be used when getting new beans etc, with my current scale I find the porta filter needs to be balanced on and it has a power off timer that is to short must be less than minute and it shuts off!


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## ashcroc (Oct 28, 2016)

lee1980 said:


> Thanks Joey,
> Yeah I guess, its a definite should be used when getting new beans etc, with my current scale I find the porta filter needs to be balanced on and it has a power off timer that is to short must be less than minute and it shuts off!


Check the instructions of you still have them. It may be possible to extend or disable the auto power off.


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## Philip HN (Nov 7, 2019)

Good string this. I am still comparatively new to bottomless portafilters: I've been making espressos for 30-odd years but for some reason bought my first bottomless portafilter only this year. I was reasonably familiar with the theory (process of osmosis) and use WDT anyway to address some some minor grinder shortcomings but in the event I've struggled a bit to achieve consistency. For example, for the last couple of days I've been drinking Red Brick by Square Mile, whereas last week I was drinking Sweet Bourbon by Coffee Compass. The Sweet Bourbon through the bottomless p/f was a breeze; the Red Brick is a pain in the proverbial. I can't seem to put a stop to what I'm calling micro-channelling i.e. pinhole projectile sputter. I've adjusted the brew temperature and the grind and taken puck preparation to new heights of obsession, but to no avail. So the next thing I'm going to try is a basket change. My portafilter came with a 21g basket which is leaving what feels like an uncomfortable amount of headspace. Seeing the recommendations for IMS above has prompted me to order one. I do get that there could be other less obvious things going on to contribute to the problem, but I've been bothered about the basket ever since it arrived so it will be good to tick it off the list.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

This is pretty much what I get, but find its a case of dialling in grind for each new load bag of beans, usually once done its good for whole hopper full.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Sometimes the "precision" baskets can be more difficult as they can have a wider area of holes at the bottom. I have both IMS competition baskets (2 or 3 types)/VST and whatever the machines come with. I do find differences in grind level between the different baskets but the "precision" ones don't seem to really help, often the reverse.

I actually forget what machine has what basket nowadays and simply know the grind levels/dose for each machine. I'll pull a shot with any basket and when testing always use the supplied baskets. The real differences I find is with the coffees certain varietals and roast levels. Some are easy to obtain a perfect non spurty pour, others far more difficult, requiring accurate grind level and fill level.


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## Lefteye (Dec 30, 2014)

lee1980 said:


> Still getting random spurts from naked basket, sometimes its like many spurts that sort of shower inside of walls of glass, other times its on tiny pin size stream shooting out the top of cup and going everywhere.
> 
> Is there one typical cause for this?, been trying to be more consistent will all weighing and tamp pressure etc. Just seems random, one time it will build to one nice thick flow stream no spurts clean glass etc, other times just the 1 tiny spurt!!


 Have you tried spraying your pucks. I occasionally get sprites and spurts but since spraying the puck after tamping with a little water I don't and get really well aligned central makes extractions.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Thanks all for more, tips, it does seem to vary on level of roast and how mature beans are since roasting I find.

Never tried water, you mean drops or like from a sprayer?


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## Lefteye (Dec 30, 2014)

Drops from a spray bottle. There was a little discussion on the decent espresso thread on here a couple of weeks ago.


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## lee1980 (Jul 25, 2017)

Thanks I see will have a look!


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## PeterF (Aug 25, 2014)

Whether I get spurts or not is a bit hit and miss. I will try stirring as advised. However I'm pleased to report it never affects the flavour in the cup, so relax guys.

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