# Cafe cleanliness



## wmoore (Dec 19, 2012)

Just a bit of a rant.

Why can't my local Costa (located where I work) keep their machines clean ? Why do they need to pull the shots into the same espresso cups(which are then poured into the customers cup) over and over without cleaning them. Dirty cloths used to wipe down the steam wand lying on the drip tray.Remains of spilled milk and coffee around the machine.

The other day I saw the girl pour half the steam milk into the drip tray for some reason.

Crazy!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

because costa is Shhhhhhhite


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Sounds wonderful. And I think coffeechap may well have hit the nail on the head


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Some stores get it spot on, whilst others are miles away

I've had some lovely coffee from Costa - prepared by their trainers, using the same technique, equipment and beans.

However, the further you get away from the training environment the more variable the results.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Because they are interested in serving lot so people very quickly , serving drinks that are full of milk and sugar and syrup up to the point where it doesn't matter how you serve them, and people equate sweet and big with good

It's coffee jim but not as we know it ...


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Bet the portafilters are really gunged up too which will seriously taint shots. Poor staff training and management.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

You can red the hygiene inspection reports for food businesses on most council websites, but they often neglect to cover the coffee machine which is odd really as the cloths if unchanged could easily harvest bacteria.

As coffeechap says the majority of Costa's are shit anyway.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The best coffee I have ever had from a Costa was the small one on Lancaster Railway station a really good flat white, well made and actually in a proper sized cup not a bucket with some good art on it too.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Bet the portafilters are really gunged up too which will seriously taint shots. Poor staff training and management.


This is my biggest hate by far when I watch someone make me a coffee. SO many places dont get a good puk and dont wipe the portafilter, drives me nuts.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> This is my biggest hate by far when I watch someone make me a coffee. SO many places dont get a good puk and dont wipe the portafilter, drives me nuts.


My hate too, borderline neglect!


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## Iwwstriker (Dec 6, 2013)

I thought all the franchises have mega size bean to cup machines installed? Well, at least that is what I saw in Nottingham starbucks, costa except Cafenero to be accurate. I don't see barista pulling portafilters out of the machine, grinding and steaming. All done at a push of a button. Well, exception for the Starbucks that is inside University of Nottingham, at least the barista still steams the milk, but sadly extraction of espresso is done with buttons.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Because the staff don't care?


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Do yourselves all a favour and stop frequenting these places.

Why would you want to help fund the serving of substandard coffee by these multinational criminals who avoid tax and pay bottom dollar to the growers?

Surely you're not so addicted you can't wait til you get home or find a speciality coffee shop?

The world would be a better place without them and then you'd have less to seethe about in your day to day.

Nice.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Milanski said:


> Do yourselves all a favour and stop frequenting these places.
> 
> Why would you want to help fund the serving of substandard coffee by these multinational criminals who avoid tax and pay bottom dollar to the growers?
> 
> ...


x2. If you've got access to hot water get yourself an Aeropress and start enjoying good coffee at work.


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

I never really go into Costa, but in terms of coffee I have to say my occasional trips into Starbucks have been consistently better than into independent coffee shops.


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## glevum (Apr 4, 2013)

Our 11th Costa is going up at The Railway Triangle, Glos city centre. A 12th has been rejected for the Quays. Check out what the Councillors state......

http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Costa-drive-plan-Gloucester-Quays-thrown/story-20565317-detail/story.html

I just want to know when they are going to name change Gloucestershire to Costashire.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Milanski said:


> Do yourselves all a favour and stop frequenting these places.
> 
> Why would you want to help fund the serving of substandard coffee by these multinational criminals who avoid tax and pay bottom dollar to the growers?
> 
> ...


When your at work and the option is popping round the corner to Costa or walking 10 mins to a good coffee place, unfortunately the convenience is the deciding factor. Add to that that most of your colleagues trust the big brand over the independent.

If they were next door to one another I would choose the independent every time.


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

I have a Costa 1 minute walk in the village where I work nothing else. Tried it once just to check yep it was rubbish no need to go back. At work its either no coffee or coffee from home used in ccd or aeropress certainly not giving them any money for a substandard product.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> When your at work and the option is popping round the corner to Costa or walking 10 mins to a good coffee place, unfortunately the convenience is the deciding factor. Add to that that most of your colleagues trust the big brand over the independent.
> 
> If they were next door to one another I would choose the independent every time.


How about making your own?


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> How about making your own?


I do most of the time, aeropress and rave, but there isn't always coffee/ the equipment isn't always clean/ colleagues want to do a round at Costa.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

D_Evans said:


> When your at work and the option is popping round the corner to Costa or walking 10 mins to a good coffee place, unfortunately the convenience is the deciding factor. Add to that that most of your colleagues trust the big brand over the independent.
> 
> If they were next door to one another I would choose the independent every time.


there are 3 coffee shops directly opposite where I work. All are bad .

There is a good one that's 5 minutes away.

I go to the good one. Sometimes quality needs to be rewarded and takes a little bit more effort to support .


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Do yourselves all a favour and stop frequenting these places.
> 
> Why would you want to help fund the serving of substandard coffee by these multinational criminals who avoid tax and pay bottom dollar to the growers?
> 
> ...


Which is all well and good IF you have a decent independent coffee shop around, the closest one to me serves a blend from Limini which is ok and head and shoulders above everyone else in town, but the best one locally is still 8 miles or so away and in the middle of nowhere, which is the Roberts and Co roastery, and then 15 miles away there is 1 in Blackburn. The best coffee in Chorley is in my kitchen at home, but if I'm out with a mate or meet a mate in town and they want to go for a coffee and no indies around what's the choice?

I will certainly never ever visit Nero again I was in their main Preston branch this time last year, the ex wanted a hot chocolate, so we ordered and I watched the "barista" remove a dirty portafilter from the group, and didn't flush it, he dumped the puck and then dosed straight into a filthy portafilter, I turned round and left before we had to even pay as I wasn't staying to drink that filth. A little care and basic hygiene costs very little and improves a product so much, if they were so slapdash with their food they would get closed down rapidly so why not take a little care with their supposed main product line.


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## wmoore (Dec 19, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Do yourselves all a favour and stop frequenting these places.
> 
> Why would you want to help fund the serving of substandard coffee by these multinational criminals who avoid tax and pay bottom dollar to the growers?
> 
> ...


The problem is Costa is taking over the world. Unfortunately at the hospital where I work both food retail spaces are Costa shops. For decent coffee a 10 min walk into town is needed.

I do live only 5 mins away, so most of the time I can go home at lunch time and enjoy some nice Rave beans.









Also on a slightly different topic, why can't some coffee places make a Flat white correctly ? The biggest mistake they make is that they serve it in the wrong size cup. I heard one of the girls in a coffee shop tell her colleague that when pouring the milk into different drinks that the foam should be above the rim of the cup for a Cappuccino. For a Latte just below the rim of the cup and for a flat white, it needs to be flat on the rim of the cup.


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## coffeechops (Dec 23, 2013)

As someone currently re-furbing an ex-Costa machine for home use, I can safely say I will never, ever visit another Costa again.

Colin


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Make a stand people for feck's sake!

I'm not buying the convienience argument. That's why the world is going to shit because people like yous are too lazy to get off your fat arses and vote with your feet.

Costa would not be takling over the world if more of us refrained from giving them money (and this goes for Tesco and all the other world-raping chains).

You are on this forum because you are in to quality coffee - so educate people.

Put you raincoat on, enjoy being out of the office for 20mins, buy a round of amazing coffees for your workmates and smile at people on your way back knowing you've just deprived the chains of another £15 towards the opening of their next shop and the further degradation of yet more land being used to grow inferior quality beans.

Either that or just wash your bloody aeropress!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Sorry milanski where I live it is impossible to get good coffee the closest is miles away and the simple fact is I have to go without, which is why I've spent far more than I can afford on my home kit. I do refuse to drink and people just laugh it off and just don't seem to accept my views as, "it's good enough for me" or "I quite like it actually"

when I try to explain they don't get it. Some even take it as an insult to them. Unfortunately some people are ignorant and are happy being so the saying ignorance is bliss is true I think. As even I miss the days when I could sit in a chair in a chain and watch the world go by.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm with you CoffeeJohnny. At least you deprive yourself, at least you do not take the easy option, at least you do not compound the problem, and for that you should be commended.


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Milanski said:


> Make a stand people for feck's sake!
> 
> I'm not buying the convienience argument. That's why the world is going to shit because people like yous are too lazy to get off your fat arses and vote with your feet.
> 
> ...


As Glenn says, you can get get a decent coffee from costa if you are really lucky in having a good one near you, which I know doesn't often happen, but by the same token there aren't many people with a good indie within raincoat donning distance.

I think you all should save your rage for all the shit, haven't got a clue indies out there that pour a ten second gusher of twelve month old robusta dominated beans into a cup with steaming hot milk. I know loads of people who've been put off going to an indie because of this. To them going to Costa is a way of playing it safe.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bad coffee is bad coffee , where it's some one who is an indie artisan or a " coffee shop" which I suspect is what your more referring to Cold War .

Costa, Starbucks etc have the power to encircle places to take up good pitches and make it so other people struggle to open in places.

. Yet they still make crap the majority of the time ,


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

Starbucks (and probably costa) deliberately engage in triangulation with indies.

If they open a shop on one side of town their next shop will be...the same side of town. That way the indie that just about could survive closes down and they take their business. Then they open elsewhere.

If people didn't move their custom they wouldn't do it. They don't pay their due tax in the UK (indies don't get away with that!) and the profits leave the country.

In Sheffield two starbucks have closed down due to pressure from independents. One is currently being renovated by brewdog and will soon become a craft beer bar.

Lets vote with our feet; if we want something, we need to support it. Even if it takes more effort, more time or more money (up to a point). If we do we'll get better coffee, food and beer. If we don't, we'll get clone towns of starbucks, wetherspoons and McDonalds.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Be the change you want to see in the world - and I ain't just talking about the coffee people.

I think that's how Gandhi phrased it wasn't it?


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

Last time I was in a costa the steam wand was caked in milk and chocolate powder from top to bottom, the "barista" had no intention of cleaning it, the group heads were filthy, ground coffee/chocolate powder all over the grinder/coffee machine/work bench and one of my biggest HATES, didn't clean the portafilters after each use, the guy didn't even tamp the coffee before using it!!

I have FAR too much pride in my coffee to do this sort of thing. My colleagues call me particular because I keep my coffee machine/grinder/drip tray and bench and PF clean all the time. It's not particular, its sanitary and makes sure that each coffee is as fresh and tasty as possible.

This sort of practice described in costa is exactly why I will never work in one.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

So I guess having a brand means a few/many of your restaurants doing something wrong tarnishes the whole brand, and vice versa anyone with a positive image will associate this with the whole chain.

But if you lumped all "independents" together, the ratio of those who dont take care of their equipment/have little to no idea how to make good coffee, would in my experience by the same kind of ratio as the Costas of the world.

The good independents will blow the best Costas out of the water for sure, but my point is because one does it doesn't mean they all do. Their training certainly has them clean the wands and flush the groups, it falls apart a the store level.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Dennis I guess what people are focusing on here is that we all know McDonalds is crap food, but it's dependably crap as in you know it will be just as bad wherever in the world you go. There is or was, believe it or not, a Costa in Abu Dhabi International Airport in their food court and it was just the same as over here, but the chains don't even seem to be reliably good or bad, it's just pot luck which is very weird for a chain .


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Whitbread own costa and they also own premier inn I worked as a chef in the latter for a short time and it had a costa using ESE pods, that was behind a bar and there were very strict cleaning instructions in place. There was also a manager cracking a whip so no one could rest on their laurels. I wonder if it is, in fact, the manager that makes the difference.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Dennis I guess what people are focusing on here is that we all know McDonalds is crap food, but it's dependably crap as in you know it will be just as bad wherever in the world you go. There is or was, believe it or not, a Costa in Abu Dhabi International Airport in their food court and it was just the same as over here, but the chains don't even seem to be reliably good or bad, it's just pot luck which is very weird for a chain .


It's the people that work in a place or across a chain that make it reliably good or bad . I own a business, where it takes 6 months to train someone to be half useful ( not unlike a coffee shop ) d . and Trying to give consistent service when you employ 35 people , half of them part time , all never there in one go, , at different levels and experience , available to train at different times , learning indifferent ways and times , motivated by differ things .

It ain't that easy......


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

My point is being missed. And it's a mahoosive point. And one that doesn't not stop at coffee shops. And I know it's bad grammar to start a sentence with 'And'...

Multinational chains are evil. They deplete the world's resources with not one modicum of concern other than their bottom line and they treat people with the absolute minimum amount respect required by law.

Wiki's description of a psychopathy: '...it is characterized by enduring antisocial behaviour, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behaviour.' Sound familiar?

Without wanting to come over as too much of a tree-hugger, it is our responsibility to look after the planet on which we live. Selfish, blinkered and lazy people are the ones who are destroying it for the rest of us because the teeth of capitalism will always feed like piranha on the stupid masses who gulp down advertising and coffee nut caramellas (I had to look that one up) until they're too fat and bloated to walk 5 mins to their nearest Costa.

Choosing to purchase from smaller independents (coffee shops, food establishments, grocery shops etc) and perhaps even talking to them to help them improve encourages growth, leads to greater diversification of services, personality and overall pleasant experiences IMO not to mention less strain on the world's resources caused by the chains raping specific areas of the globe for the production one selection of products.

Wake up and smell the coffee...


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Milanski said:


> My point is being missed. And it's a mahoosive point. And one that doesn't not stop at coffee shops. And I know it's bad grammar to start a sentence with 'And'...
> 
> Multinational chains are evil. They deplete the world's resources with not one modicum of concern other than their bottom line and they treat people with the absolute minimum amount respect required by law.
> 
> ...


Suggesting people change their drinking,eating and shopping habits like that is all well and good when you live somewhere like London, it's a lot more difficult to achieve out here in the "sticks".

Some examples. Here in Chorley there is only 1 bricks and mortar coffee shop/Cafe that has no tie in to big business the rest do in some form or other with their coffee supplier and there is 1 branch of Costa, several of the independent cafes use a bean to cup machine supplied by outfits like Rijo42 there is a very small " Covered Market" open on Tues,Thurs,Fri and Sat only and even then doesn't have much choice. There is 1 branch of a North West small Supermarket chain called Booths that do source as much produce as possible locally or from smaller craft and artisan producers, IMHO they are far better than Waitrose or M&S but there is a price attached, there is a large Morrisons just outside the Town Centre and a smallish Asda just the other side of town. There is that temple of cheap mostly crap, frozen meals Farm Foods and an Iceland and then further out a Tesco Extra and a large Asda. If you are prepared to travel around a little there are some amazing farm shops and I have a superb traditional style butcher who only sources his meat locally. This all requires a substantial effort and spending more as well, which in this current climate is more than most people will do. In our increasingly London and South East centric country you don't have to go that far to see just how bad a state a lot of this country is in.


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## oracleoftruth (Jan 15, 2014)

It is also the case that if you want someone to work hard you can either pay them well, give them respect and autonomy or make them an owner. Independents tend to do well because they give their staff more respect and autonomy and have an owner who cares; not a manager who may or may not.

John Lewis/Waitrose works because staff own it.

Other private run places do well when they pay well.

Costa neither pays well nor gives staff autonomy or sufficient respect. My guess is that there are managers who are great and are able to motivate their staff. This will always be the exception as it isn't worth the chains money to do it right.

Bottom line: If people will pay for poor service and poor coffee, why bother with anything else if all you care about is money?

Costa cares about money because it has to; it's a corporation.

Independents are not corporations so can care about something else.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Charliej said:


> Suggesting people change their drinking,eating and shopping habits like that is all well and good when you live somewhere like London, it's a lot more difficult to achieve out here in the "sticks".
> 
> Some examples. Here in Chorley there is only 1 bricks and mortar coffee shop/Cafe that has no tie in to big business the rest do in some form or other with their coffee supplier and there is 1 branch of Costa, several of the independent cafes use a bean to cup machine supplied by outfits like Rijo42 there is a very small " Covered Market" open on Tues,Thurs,Fri and Sat only and even then doesn't have much choice. There is 1 branch of a North West small Supermarket chain called Booths that do source as much produce as possible locally or from smaller craft and artisan producers, IMHO they are far better than Waitrose or M&S but there is a price attached, there is a large Morrisons just outside the Town Centre and a smallish Asda just the other side of town. There is that temple of cheap mostly crap, frozen meals Farm Foods and an Iceland and then further out a Tesco Extra and a large Asda. If you are prepared to travel around a little there are some amazing farm shops and I have a superb traditional style butcher who only sources his meat locally. This all requires a substantial effort and spending more as well, which in this current climate is more than most people will do. In our increasingly London and South East centric country you don't have to go that far to see just how bad a state a lot of this country is in.


...and the state of the rest of the world? Does that not matter? ...'there is a price attached' to shopping in the chains also. Just cos one doesn't see it, doesn't mean it's not real.

As I say, a little more effort and money (cos we're not poor by third world standards let's face it, we're using computers and talking about coffee afterall!) by everyone in 'developed' countries would change the state of play in a way that would make hundreds of thousands of people around the world better off, not to mention the state of our planet.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

But what about the rest of this country outside Greater London and the M25, we send millions overseas to flood hit countries and people, what do people in this country get a few thousand to buy sandbags and Westminster Windbags looking for a photo opportunity. You soon see an attitude change if London Flooded. What's that old saying about charity begins at home and there's another one about setting your own house in order 1st.

There are people in this country existing on Red Cross food parcels and other food charities too you know, while the people who caused all this financial upheaval are getting paid even more in bonuses while the rest of the country suffers.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How one earth did this thread end up on this ?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

It's all down to global warming - floods, gales....channelling, under and over extraction. Will it never end?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Should have added coastal erosion and static related clumping....sorry for that.


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> How one earth did this thread end up on this ?


I think I subverted the thread. Apologies.

It just annoys me that people think of their own convenience whilst conveniently ignoring the bigger picture.

Anyway, what's wrong with a mass debate??


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Nothing , was unsure how a thread called cafe cleanliness has ended up here


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Charliej said:


> But what about the rest of this country outside Greater London and the M25, we send millions overseas to flood hit countries and people, what do people in this country get a few thousand to buy sandbags and Westminster Windbags looking for a photo opportunity. You soon see an attitude change if London Flooded. What's that old saying about charity begins at home and there's another one about setting your own house in order 1st.
> 
> There are people in this country existing on Red Cross food parcels and other food charities too you know, while the people who caused all this financial upheaval are getting paid even more in bonuses while the rest of the country suffers.


If charity begins at home Charlie then you'll be giving your coffee money to the Red Cross then?

All I'm saying is that by making a bit of effort we can change a lot of things for the better.

Choosing where we spend a couple of quid a day on a luxury item can make a massive difference to whole geographic areas of the world and the welfare of thousands.

Nuff said. I'm bowing out of this one before I get stoned (no, I don't mean using the herb).


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## Milanski (Oct 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Nothing , was unsure how a thread called cafe cleanliness has ended up here


Sorry, I was making a crass joke at the end there trying to lighten things a little...

I've said my piece. I think we all know where I stand on the cafe cleanliness issue!!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Milanski said:


> Anyway, what's wrong with a mass debate??


Really fighting the urge to say a school boy remark to this!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> Really fighting the urge to say a school boy remark to this!


Go on, unburden yourself


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I'll do it for him... W*nk+r.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Go on, unburden yourself


Well you're the self titled hand crank specialist so maybe Dave was leaving that to you


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Owning a SJ makes me a great thwaker Charlie - unlike you lazy on demand types that can't be bothered to do it yourself


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

Oracleoftruth makes a good point.

I have no idea what the pay and conditions offered to Costa worker, but it would be interesting to know if they invest in and value their staff.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Expobarista said:


> Oracleoftruth makes a good point.
> 
> I have no idea what the pay and conditions offered to Costa worker, but it would be interesting to know if they invest in and value their staff.


15 years ago they used to send them to Italy for a weekend to trainers when they has passed as a barista , dunno if they still so this or not


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I've had some really sh*t coffee in Italy.... So perhaps they still do


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## emin-j (Dec 10, 2011)

Got dragged into a Costa a few weeks ago by the Mrs and Mother in law following two hours walking around the shops , I was glad to sit down







I had a Americano and the ladies cappuccino's , my coffee was tasteless and theirs was a bucketful of tasteless frothy milk







As I finished first I thought I would take a walk over and watch the 'Barista' at work.

1, Coffee dosed into the dirty portafilter until overflowing.

2, A quick upwards press (no pressure) onto the fixed tamper.

3, With coffee covering the perimeter of the basket it was whammed into the group and the shot pulled.

4, Then followed hot milk, topped with spray cream, syrup and mini marshmallows WTF !

As the customer walked away sipping the drink with a Mmmmmm







I just shook my head in disbelief and walked out.

The place was packed and queued to the door









It seems to me there are far more people who don't know about proper coffee and are quite happy to pay ££££ for shite and company's like Costa are pleased to oblige.


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