# Gaggia advice, which machine ?



## Ronaldbiggs (Oct 24, 2015)

Hi, I am after my first machine and have had a look through the various forums and seem to be swayed towards a Gaggia machine, mostly due to good reports of quality of coffee and price.

My budget is around £200, I have seen the Classic 2015 model and the older version, any advice on the difference between the two ideas and if it's worth buying a used machine (if buying an older model).

Any advice very much appreciated.

Daz


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

Definitely buy a used older machine. Any model Classic will be fine.


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## Fevmeister (Oct 21, 2013)

Hi daz

ive just seen your budget is 100 for a grinder as well as 200 for a machine on this thread

id say combine them and try get each for 150

many say the grinder is as important if not more important than the machine. With 150 you'll get yourself a better Grinder. Graeff do one that you could get new for that and is meant to be pretty good as an entry level grinder.

The machine I would suggest would be everyone's favorite the gaggia Classic. There's a chap on here (gaggiaclassicservice) I think??) who's business is to restore them so my suggestion would be to get in touch with him.

I think you'd have change from £300 if you Pursue that strategy!


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

Wot Fev said.

Gaggiamanualservice often has refurbished Classics at the £140 mark. A used grinder for £150 (or even new if what Fevmeister said is true) is going to get you a lot further than spending £200 on a newer classic and having only a oner left for a grinder. Grinder is definitely more important and £100 is probably only going to get you an MC2. £150 should get something a little better. Don't forget you'll still need a tamper and scales, and a milk jug, but the three of these together can be had for less than 50.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27357

Gaggia classic refurbs

Right on cue! @Ronaldbiggs


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## gaggiamanualservice.com (Dec 22, 2009)

got some nice classics if interested on the for sale section.


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## jqwety (Oct 25, 2015)

Hello Mark,

I am also in the look out for a Gaggia. I will be able to view your posts when I have made a couple more posts, I'll will be in touch shortly.


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## Ronaldbiggs (Oct 24, 2015)

Thanks All

Gives me a good idea on starting points, I will speak with the other half and see what she thinks,at the moment we are using a press and to be honest the results are very average.

I am looking forward to venturing in to something new.

Thanks Gaggiamanualservice I will take a look.

regards

Daz


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## Chris.noavk (Dec 8, 2013)

I went to the classic from Nespresso and agree with everyone. The grinder is just as important if not more. If you skimp out on the grinder you will end up regretting it.


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## CFo (Aug 25, 2013)

I would say if you can run to a Eureka Mignon 2nd-hand it could potentially still be a good enough grinder when you inevitably upgrade from the classic. With luck you might get one around £180. Like many I started with an MC2, but soon wished I'd spent the extra. Also the Mignon is neat and pretty so SWMBO will probably like it.


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## Emmodd (Sep 23, 2015)

I'm in a similar boat. Have about £300 or so so spend at the minute and can't decide between whether to get a classic and a grinder in budget or spunk it all on a coffee machine until I can afford a better grinder (using bought ground coffee in the meantime). Is there much out there new or used its the £300 bracket which is markedly better than a classic?


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

Emmodd said:


> I'm in a similar boat. Have about £300 or so so spend at the minute and can't decide between whether to get a classic and a grinder in budget or spunk it all on a coffee machine until I can afford a better grinder (using bought ground coffee in the meantime). Is there much out there new or used its the £300 bracket which is markedly better than a classic?


Don't bother using ground. Seriously.

Better to buy a good Classic at the right price then sell for similar value when you can afford to upgrade.


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## Emmodd (Sep 23, 2015)

jonc said:


> Don't bother using ground. Seriously.
> 
> Better to buy a good Classic at the right price then sell for similar value when you can afford to upgrade.


So a classic and a Mazzer then? Classic on eBay with a PID. Worth the additional cost or not?


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## timmyjj21 (May 10, 2015)

You can DIY a PID for less, but the one on eBay also has a copper coil around the boiler to preheat the incoming water, which is more annoying to do. I don't personally think it is worth the extra money if you have the free time and are happy to do your own hacking. There is a PID guide in the Gaggia forum that is easy and step-by-step.


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## habbi (Dec 13, 2015)

I know this is no doubt a stupid question, but what is a PID? I've lurked a lot, but not spotted an explanation.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

It's essentially a MUCH better way to control the boiler temperature (and having good control of the brew water temp is key to making good espresso).

A standard Classic uses a crude thermostat set at 107C to control the boiler temp. It's 107C due to the fact that there are heat losses in the water path, and hence water hitting the coffee will be lower than that.

However, this thermostat is a bimetallic strip - which makes a circuit to the heating elements when it's cooler than 107c and breaks the circuit to the heating elements when warmer that 107c... or at least that's the theory. In practice a boiler controlled by the standard thermostat cycles wildly in temperature - probably between about 97C and 115C - ie much too cool and much too hot!

A PID uses an accurate electronic temperature sensor in place of the crude thermostat to accurately read the boiler temp (with 0.1C definition in the case of a Pt100 RTD sensor). The PID device then uses a PID algorithm to control when to turn the heating elements on and off (if the actual temp is a long way off the set temp then it may keep the elements on for a longer period of time, but as the boiler temp approaches the set temperature then it'll "flicker" the heating elements on and off so that the boiler temp hits the set temp without (too much) overshooting.

Effectively you can control the boiler temperature more accurately AND set it to whatever temp you desire - so in theory you can obtain consistent brew water at your desired temperature. (In reality it's not quite that perfect, but it's a significant improvement over the standard thermostat!).

HTH


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## habbi (Dec 13, 2015)

Thank you! That's really interesting - I hadn't realised metal thermostats had such a wide range.


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

habbi said:


> Thank you! That's really interesting - I hadn't realised metal thermostats had such a wide range.


About 17c on the Gaggia one, apparently.

Edited to say that the thermostats themselves probably don't have such a wide range - but when used to control the temp of something with reasonable thermal mass then (as the heating elements are either on flat-out, or off) you can find that significant overshoot occurs - resulting in a wide range on water temps.


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