# Barista Hustle Q&A Take Aways



## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

A bit late on the scene on this one after a hectic bank holiday but just watched the latest Barista Hustle (video below). I know lots are following this and wondered what your take away was from the latest episode. A couple of things caught my interest:


Grinding from frozen to increase grind evenness by "shattering" boulders to reduce particle size. Also Matt briefly touched on temperature of grinds having a larger impact than temperature at the group and increasing consistency.


Another slightly throw away comment that pricked my ears was extracting on the EK43 at 4bar for espresso in order to reduce the flow rate. He has mentioned low pressures and flow rates before but hadn't realised the pressure set was so low.

Probably a couple of things to have a play with soon, although I am looking to initially change my flow rate by installing the 0.5mm gicleur. Currently pre-weighing out some beans to freeze before firing though the EK to see how that works out!

[video=youtube;JgRufU-0cO4]


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Having tried his coffee . I can't see what going as low as 4 bar would bring to the flow rate per se . They weren't über light by any means . I have played with flat profiles from 4 bar upwards . They reduce flow rate for sure but do some bring different in terms of the taste of the extractions . A really low 4 bar one can make a some roasts extract into 25-30 seconds but the mouthfeel and body can vary greatly from espresso at 9 bar


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Had the thought about frozen beans breaking more evenly before, but never put the idea into practice. Fun things to experiment with I guess!


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I would assume a flat 4bar would be thin. Is the aim to drop pressure and flow rate to reduce the aggressive extraction from an EK making the window wider for hitting preferential extraction yields?


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## Dicci (Feb 9, 2015)

Interesting to hear that he uses boiling water for his brewed coffee, not water 'off the boil'. Eliminating the 'magic minute' between boiling and brewing will mean I can have my coffee 60 seconds earlier each morning.... Result!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There are some coffees or filter roasts that you can't get a decent flow rate with ( esp on original coffee burrs ) . I took a filter coffee from passion fruit roasters the other day and put it on 4 bar . Got a 30 second shot 20>45 . Mouthfeel is hard to describe . Measurement wise dunno known. I got all the typical flavours I was looking for and getting in filter . I'll do another later and measure ...

Typically I'm running 90 percent shots at flat 6/7 with a short ramp up at start , then adjusting the grind. If then grind goes past a point where extraction is even or too fast , I then look at dropping pressure more


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Just tried first "freezer shot". Not massive difference in taste on this one compared to non-frozen. Same dose/grind/ratio led to a longer shot by 4 secs to finish which was notably at the start of the shot for first drops to appear. Didn't seem to run away at the end of the shot as much as normal.

This is all from one shot and I need to repeat over several days to see if this is a continued trend.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

forzajuve said:


> Just tried first "freezer shot". Not massive difference in taste on this one compared to non-frozen. Same dose/grind/ratio led to a longer shot by 4 secs to finish which was notably at the start of the shot for first drops to appear. Didn't seem to run away at the end of the shot as much as normal.
> 
> This is all from one shot and I need to repeat over several days to see if this is a continued trend.


From what he is saying the freezer shots are the equivalent of grinding a little finer, the more brittle frozen beans breaking up into smaller particles, bringing down the average particle size & less boulders.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Pulled by accident a flat 5 bar shot last night - Yirg natural .

20g > 50g 40 plus seconds .

Fruit popped in the cup to a ridiculous level . Red berry then super sweet clean lemonade . Took the grind out a notch this morning and dropped the temp a little - sweet red berry - tons of mouthfeel too ( lower temp in the cup ? ) . Broke all the rules of extraction . V tasty indeed . You need a 90 plus burrs to do this though I think .


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Wish the pump pressure adjustment wasn't in such an annoying place on the Brewtus


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Looks like the R58 is getting an awkward tilt/balance on the edge of the counter to adjust the pressure!


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Pulled by accident a flat 5 bar shot last night - Yirg natural .
> 
> 20g > 50g 40 plus seconds .
> 
> Fruit popped in the cup to a ridiculous level . Red berry then super sweet clean lemonade . Took the grind out a notch this morning and dropped the temp a little - sweet red berry - tons of mouthfeel too ( lower temp in the cup ? ) . Broke all the rules of extraction . V tasty indeed . You need a 90 plus burrs to do this though I think .


Sounds delicious mate!


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

The Classe 6 is dead easy to adjust though...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> Sounds delicious mate!


Got there via random and fluke > was two v good shots tho


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Yeah when I saw him he mentioned the frozen bean things. The frozen beans supposedly create more fines as they are more brittle. This then allows you to grind courser which in turn has the effect of making the rest of boulders more even in size and also means that as a lower percentage of total surface area they play less of a part in the total extraction. That was the theory earlier in the year, things change all the time though


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Got there via random and fluke > was two v good shots tho


2 in row isn't random fluke though?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> 2 in row isn't random fluke though?


You know espresso mate . 2 shots are never totally the same


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

Update on freezer shots.

Been playing with these now for a couple of days and some immediately obvious results from these. Frozen definitely slow the shot down 4-8 secs vs normal room temp at the same grind. Pours are more even and do not run away as much towards the end when frozen. The end result is that I can grind coarser (2-4 notches on 3FE dial) to deliver same output in the same time. Taste wise is still something I am getting to grips with as I have changed beans during this period.

Some next steps will be to try some naked portafilter shots with the frozens on the EK (yikes!) and look at consistency of grind setting. Once dialled in, can it sit there given beans should not alter much in the freezer and I will be grinding the beans at the same temperature each time so atmospherics may not come into play?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

How have they got a Peak already? Thats my only question.


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## Taff (May 5, 2015)

will watch this a bit later.. already itching to turn my pump down!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Taff said:


> will watch this a bit later.. already itching to turn my pump down!


Ive been pulling some stinking shots recently on low pressure , too good to spock , but will do so later on , to see where what is going on extraction yield wise.

With low pressure i think you need a really , really good flat burr grinder. I had some flat pressure shots from a Mythos one this week and although good , they were not quite up to the Ek43 ones at home ...

Any comments @garydyke1

St Ali had a Robur an Ek and a Peak on the bar in that clip . Sadly they used the Robur to demonstrate distribution on the video


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> . You need a 90 plus burrs to do this though I think .


What's a 90 plus burrs?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jlarkin said:


> What's a 90 plus burrs?


Ek43 and r120 .

To be fair I haven't tried it enough with other Grinders to give a real valid opinion on what it will taste like .

It may make shots of good extraction ranges for those grinders (19 ish ) tasty good .

My


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## Taff (May 5, 2015)

OK.. have watched it.. with regard to pressures, I got that he is manipulating pressure to get a desired flow rate, which changes depending on machine, gicleur etc. Unfortunately he doesn't say what his target flow rate is!!

Just turned the rotary on the fracino down to 6 from 8.. it was a lovely shot... better than at 8 for the bean I have at the moment..


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Taff said:


> OK.. have watched it.. with regard to pressures, I got that he is manipulating pressure to get a desired flow rate, which changes depending on machine, gicleur etc. Unfortunately he doesn't say what his target flow rate is!!
> 
> Just turned the rotary on the fracino down to 6.. it was a lovely shot...


Cool . In general you have more wiggle room or range , in terms of finer grind , with more traditional grinders . Hence perhaps not the need to turn pressure down . As much

Scott Roa talked about a method for dialling in pressure ( flat ) to get maximum extraction . Can't remember it tho

Ball park he will be aiming for 1:2-2.5 over 25-35 I guess . Garnered from his barista hustle posts. If you haven't read them , they will give you his preferences on ratio and flow rates I think


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## Taff (May 5, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> Cool . In general you have more wiggle room or range , in terms of finer grind , with more traditional grinders . Hence perhaps not the need to turn pressure down . As much
> 
> Scott Roa talked about a method for dialling in pressure ( flat ) to get maximum extraction . Can't remember it tho
> 
> Ball park he will be aiming for 1:2-2.5 over 25-35 I guess . Garnered from his barista hustle posts. If you haven't read them , they will give you his preferences on ratio and flow rates I think


Yep, keep re reading and watching them. Maxwell is doing a lot on this at the moment too (in between writing his water book lol). He's now only using 15g vst's and has found that you have to lower the pressure to get the most out of them. Just measured my water debit at 6 bar and it seems to be around 60ml in 10secs which seems in the right ball park.


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