# Sage DTP channelling?



## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Do any of the other DTP owners on here suffer from their shots always channelling? No matter what I do it seems that the right spout (always the right) of the PF starts pouring several seconds before the left spout, and the resulting shot is pretty sour. I'm currently drinking the Has Bean Bolivia La Linda beans, and I'm getting a lot of sour cherry flavours in my espressos. I'll describe my routine below, and if that doesn't help I'll strap my phone to my face and attempt to video it









I'm only using the single walled, double shot basket that came with the DTP. I grind 18g beans on 4.4 on the original EK dial (shot weights and timings work out about right at this setting) into a jam funnel* sat on top of the PF. I then tap the PF on a tamping mat until all the coffee has fallen into the basket, and remove the funnel. At this point, I WDT with a straightened paper clip to fluff up the grinds and remove any clumps that might be present below the surface. I then level things out with my finger, and usually end up with a nice looking and reasonably flat basket. I then tamp with the included tamper, which seems to do a reasonable job, although I'm not sure it quite fits the basket as well as it could. I've experimented with nutating at this stage too, and while that seemed to help a bit, it definitely didn't completely resolve the problem.

I have a Motta tamper on order, which might improve things a bit, but I've also heard of people getting on fine with the included tamper, so I think it's likely something else. Some people have also mentioned that perhaps the PF doesn't pour evenly, but without chopping the PF I don't have any visibility of what's going on under the basket.

Does anyone else have the same problem? Or had it and fixed it?

*As an aside, Lakeland's easy fill jam funnel (http://www.lakeland.co.uk/3802/Easy-Fill-Jam-Funnel) works a treat with 54mm baskets


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

It would be unusual for a channeling shot to always favour the right side unless there was another part of your routine that caused this.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Get a spirit level on the machine


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Both counter top and machine top are level. Not sure how to test that the water flow from the shower screen is even, but running water through the empty PF flows evenly as you would expect.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Are your spouts uneven? It's unlikely to be as a result of channelling. It's the group and spouts that needs to be level so measure them.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

If the shots are sour, grind finer & pull longer shots (in weight). If you get past 1:3 ratio @ 40+ sec & still can't shake the sourness, then start examining other causes.

Tackle the most likely culprit first.


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

The group head is level, the PF spouts were a little slanted, but to the other side... I unscrewed the spouts from the PF and re-attached them without screwing them in too hard, and they now show level too, so the whole thing should be pretty level.

Shots-wise, I've been working towards 18g in to 45g out (1:2.5), and on the current grind setting that takes around 40s (including the 10s pre-infusion the DTP does). Once the shot is flowing, the flow rate seems about right (curling inwards, very few breaks in the flow), so I think I'd struggle to grind much finer without messing up the clean flow or choking the machine. I tried taking it closer to 1:3 this morning, but the shot just seemed more diluted, with a definite sourness present, especially as the shot cooled.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Try grinding finer anyway. It's possible that a well extracted 1:3 shot be just as strong as an under-extracted & sour 1:2.5 shot.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

4.4 on old dial is coarse .. Unless oh have Turkish burr set? Which burrs is it again please

Plus I was getting a raspberry/ cherry finish to this coffee ( it's kind of in the notes - perhaps you just don't like it ? ) is it any more to your preference as brewed .

Don't over think want a shot " should look like " flow wise Ek isn't a " mouse tails " grinder


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

I have the new coffee burrs, they're pretty sharp as they've only had about a kilo through at brew coarseness. I had originally tried a few around 1 to 2, but this totally choked the DTP, so I'm not sure how much room I have to go much finer.

I think the DTP cuts off after 1 minute extracting espresso (inclusive of the pre-infusing time), so I can't let the pour go longer than that. I got the impression most people are easily able to get 1:2.5 ratios in around 30s, even without including the pre-infusion time I should be around there at 4.4... If I can't trust time or shot weight, is it safe to assume that when the flow starts to struggle and break frequently it's time to stop grinding finer and coarsen it up?


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

How about that little piece of plastic inside the portafilter? I always thought that it was supposed to make the coffee flow evenly between the spouts. If so, it doesn't work on mine either.

Mine has always poured a bit more on one side than the other.

You said that nobody else has trouble with the tamper that's included so you discount that as a reason for channelling. I think that the DTP is such an entry level machine that most users are novices like me. I wouldn't know the difference between the included tamper (which seems to work OK to me) and a posh tamper because I've never used a posh tamper. Likewise with channelling, I'd never notice. Especially since naked portafilters are scarce for the DTP, I doubt I'd ever notice if it was channelling like crazy because my tamping is so poor.

The only thing I do know is that a lot of my coffee isn't bitter and horrible, and tastes a lot like the cafe I get my coffee at during work where they seem to know what they are doing. Some of my coffee is horrible if I don't pay attention, so the good ones are likely to actually be good. That's what convinces me that even though the spouts are putting out an uneven amount, it's not becuase something horrible is happening in the puck that makes all my coffee bad.

Hope that makes some sense and helps.


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Yeah, the first thing I did it pull out that plastic things at the bottom of the PF and throw it out! Don't need another thing to try and keep warm...

My comments around the tamper were based on watching @Burnzy and his DTP demonstration video posted here. From the video it's not clear if one spout starts pouring before the other. I don't discount the included tamper as a reason for channelling, but more likely I don't see getting a new tamper fixing this issue completely. I've never used a posh tamper either, but I'm hoping to find something that fits the basket a little better, and makes it easier to tell when it's level (e.g., has a proper handle). If this fixes the problem then great! But somehow I think it won't be that easy.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't be fussed about the lopsided pour if the shot wasn't quite as acidic as it is.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Just out of interest how fresh is the coffee > @Xpenno where were you grinding La Linda


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I've been grinding around 2.5 with it. Is it acidic as in raspberry acidity or sour as in underextracted?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Plus you know its the EK43 > it does its own thing , your never gonna get " espresso porn " extractions from it , especially at 9 bars .

Micro channeling has never stopped me from getting really tasty shots. i never use a naked though ...

The only other thing i can think of is extraction temp


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> I've been grinding around 2.5 with it. Is it acidic as in raspberry acidity or sour as in underextracted?


You arent on original dial though either


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Weird!! I get even extraction most of the time to be honest, the tamper takes a little getting used to. Your new tamper will help loads i bet, a good tamper makes a ridiculous difference, hence why people have £100 tampers. Personally i would suggest not playing around with your grounds so much. I now tap once and tamp, one of my local baristas swears by this, your grounds should be tamped when they are still in a slight natural mound....watch a barista do it, they tap, tamp and polish very quickly, my shots have been much better since i stoped messing with the grinds and over tapping the porta filter before tamping etc.. I am also impressed by how even the water comes out the group head and i am yet to do a descale... I have also come down to 17g, that may help but i bet the tamper sorts it. Weird its sour as well, if your extraction times/weights are correct the end result should still be nice, could it be a naturally sour coffee, as some are. I have had very sour beans from hasbean, nice but on the sour side.

Good luck with it


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I think you will get a " back end blow out " with the ek more often that not , where the shot flow will speed up , i wouldn't worry about it .

Don't try and judge what a shot should look like ( blonding , tiget stripes , mouses tail ) and apply it to the EK , it does it's own thing to some degree .


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jimbocz said:


> Likewise with channelling, I'd never notice. Especially since naked portafilters are scarce for the DTP, I doubt I'd ever notice if it was channelling like crazy because my tamping is so poor.


It's unlikely that your shot would taste good if channelling like crazy, so you probably do notice, just you aren't correlating it with a visual cue.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jonbutler88 said:


> At the end of the day, I wouldn't be fussed about the lopsided pour if the shot wasn't quite as acidic as it is.


Focus on reducing the acidic taste, then fine tune the lopsided pour...if all the shot is landing in one cup, rather than being split, a slightly lopsided pour might not be the end of the world.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> You arent on original dial though either


What is that in old money then captain haddock


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Just out of interest how fresh is the coffee > @Xpenno where were you grinding La Linda


That's my Garymex (chemex) setting. Way too coarse for spro.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

They defo coffee burrs and not Turks?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Does it say " coffee " on the side of the grinder


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Can you take a pic on the dail and where it's set for espresso please


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Look at there label, is it Ek43 or Ek43T


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@jonbutler88 suspense is killing me


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

We need a video


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> We need a video


Of what ..... foa


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Thanks all for the input - a back end blow out sounds like something to be avoided!!









I believe the PID is fixed at 93c, and pressure profile seems to be 3 bar pre-infusion for 10s, then 15 bar for up to 50s. No way to change that sadly, but if I can use this as an excuse to upgrade early I'm all ears









The coffee is pretty fresh, roasted on 22nd Feb. It definitely tastes sour, I get a really strong sour cherry flavour, like a sour cherry sweet has been dissolved in the shot. I went to a coffee shop today and had a single origin espresso which was quite acidic - there's definitely a difference between the sour vs acidic judgement, although I am starting to second guess myself a bit. Regardless, I seem to be having to grind significantly coarser to brew these beans (and all others I've tried), which puzzles me. Also, if I shouldn't really rely on the ratios, time or look of the extraction, is it really just the taste I have to go on? I know this is ultimately what matters, but I thought the other factors essentially help to guide adjustments to grind size, brewing, etc... It probably doesn't help that the EK is all I know, I've never made espresso with any other grinder. 1st world problems eh?

It seems like I should try making some tweaks to my dosing process, as currently I'm messing around with the grounds a lot before I tamp to try and reduce clumps. I'll try grinding into the catch cup of my feldgrind and tipping the lot into the PF basket and tamping after minimal taps.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Do you like espresso ? In cafes etc

Didn't say ignore ratios tho

Always weight in and out - note time and taste


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Plus what model is it as per Spencer's post


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Let's go back to basics

You are weighing in and out like this ?

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22879-Beginners-Reading-Weighing-Espresso-Brew-Ratios


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Do you like fruity coffee?


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Yes, I like fruity coffee, both brewed and espresso. The coffee I had earlier in the cafe was acidic but still very pleasant. The stuff I'm making myself is crossing the line to sour, but at the end of the day it could just be me and my tastes I guess...

I weigh beans before I grind (assuming low retention) - my scale is a brewista and too small to hold the whole PF. I could weigh the basket but with my current jam funnel dosing that would get messy.

My EK label says 1T - does that mean turkish? If so, I got sent the wrong burrs and have a very painful returns process to follow...









Here's the dial - I imagine it's no different to anyone elses (except for the original dial vs 3fe / callum / etc).


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

You have Turkish burrs.

Paging @The Systemic Kid where do you grind for spro on the dial Patrick?

Out of interest, can I ask what your thought process was behind getting an entry level espresso machine and an end-game grinder? It's an unusual pairing and somewhat doesn't surprise me that it's giving odd results.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

My recommendation is to try dosing 15g and tighten up the grind. The basket is 54mm and is sloped so you might be overloading it. At that grind setting I would expect to under extract (although I couldn't be sure)

Videos look like it might be seriously flow restricted to allow the pre infusion but then it ramps up to 15bar and keeps it there. If you are updosing too much then the shot will take longer to run initially but will still channel once it ramps up to 15bar.

Having lived with the ek for quite some time now I would say that this machine is not a good match for it. The Ek likes low pressure for maximising extraction, 15b is very high, even at 9b getting good ek shots was hard work, I'm using 6bar with 3bar pre infusion for the majority of my shots.

Good luck


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Yup that's Turks, my other comments still stand. Espresso was 2.5-4 on original dial with Turks at higher pressure.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Both the burrs and pre-breaker are different on the Turkish version are different.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jonbutler88 said:


> Also, if I shouldn't really rely on the ratios, time or look of the extraction, is it really just the taste I have to go on? I know this is ultimately what matters, but I thought the other factors essentially help to guide adjustments to grind size, brewing, etc...


Taste is the result, any recipe or ratio assumes hitting a good taste, to your preference. Grind & ratio are the variables to steer you too the taste.

For a given grind, if you are under-extracting, going longer on the brew ratio pushes more water through the puck, increasing extraction (but also diluting the shot). To lift extraction at the current ratio you need to grind finer. So it's not a case of going by taste *or* ratio/grind, use taste to decide whether you need to extract more (less sourness) & use grind & ratio to do this.

Going by the look of the extraction will largely tell you what it looks like (barring epic failures), ultimately, you really want to drink it, not video it or paint it


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Look on the bright side ...You have a more expensive burr set


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

What flow rate of water do you get ? weigh the output of water in 30 seconds and report back (no portafilter , just a cup and scales underneath)


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@jonbutler88 you've been sent the wrong machine - they leave the factory wit the burrs in ( either coffee Italia don't know or care ) and as the photo shows its easy to discern which is which . What does your receipt - invoice say ? Good luck with sorting out - let us know how you get on


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

what does the sticker on the side beside the dial say?


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Ah nuts. Well I guess I'm going to have to go about trying to sort out a replacement set of burrs then... Spence, should I also be replacing the pre-breaker? Assuming that's something I can replace with relative ease.

@risky I got the EK for brewed originally, but got interested in espresso and thought I'd get a beginner machine to see if I liked it (and could put up with all the cleaning)! I know it's an unusual combo, but the advice in general seems to be that it's a good idea to have a good grinder and a classic or similar. I guess I didn't appreciate how much of a "wild child" the EK is.

Sigh, seems like I have a long week of equipment juggling to do. Tricky question I know, but what's a good machine (that doesn't cost the earth) that plays nice with the EK (allows adjusting pressure)? The next step on my upgrade path was likely going to be something like the Profitec Pro 700, but I'm not sure how adjustable the pressure is on that or similar machines.

Thanks all again for the help.


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

My order definitely was for the espresso burrs, not the turkish burrs. As @garydyke1 says, it appears I got a free "upgrade"! But not one I want sadly.

There's no sticker on the side, if it said "turkish" I'd have noticed a lot sooner!


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## bronc (Dec 10, 2012)

The Vesuvius has programmable pressure profiles. MrBoots2u has one if I'm not mistaken.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> My order definitely was for the espresso burrs, not the turkish burrs. As @garydyke1 says, it appears I got a free "upgrade"! But not one I want sadly.
> 
> There's no sticker on the side, if it said "turkish" I'd have noticed a lot sooner!


There is no "espresso burrs" as both sets will make espresso .

Just coffee burrs and Turkish burrs - as far as I am aware

Burrs are £300 plus a set is and I think you grinder may have a different pre breaker ? @Xpenno


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Yep that's true, the CoffeeItalia site calls them espresso burrs though.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> Yep that's true, the CoffeeItalia site calls them espresso burrs though.


Calls what espresso burrs ?

What do they call the other burrs that they don't call espresso burrs ?

My sticker ( old coffee burrs ) says ek43/1 ( not t )


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

The other burrs are the turkish burrs, which are extra. What I ordered from them were the espresso burrs, which we're referring to as the coffee burrs.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> The other burrs are the turkish burrs, which are extra. What I ordered from them were the espresso burrs, which we're referring to as the coffee burrs.


Ok then you have the wrong grinder . It's not as described - contact them for a refund / exchange ( if you don't want it )

New burrs alone are gonna be £350 without a pre breaker then you have to fit them and align them .


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'm not saying that any of this is the root of your " sour coffee " you should be able to get great espresso form Turks too. ( Just not at the same ball park grind settings as the coffee burr grinder ) As indicated part of the problem may ( and we are guessing here ) be the 15bar pressure . Gary asked you to measure your flow rate without a pf in . Do this also and let us know what is is over 30 seconds in weight


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

I get 161g of water through in 30s (10s of which is the pre-infusion state).


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> I get 161g of water through in 30s (10s of which is the pre-infusion state).


Hmm that's ok actually @garydyke1 @Xpenno


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Hmm that's ok actually @garydyke1 @Xpenno


Yeah it's not too bade actually. I think 180ml is kind of a made up target









I still think you are overloading the basket and not extracting evenly. Grind finer, dose 15g and grind finer, keep BR around 1:2.5 or so. The basket is advertised as 15g-18g. You are using 18g, having to grind coarser than expected and as a result you are underextracting. Lowing the dose and grinding finer will increase extraction and reduce bitterness.

Spence


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Ok, I'll give it a shot with less grounds in the basket. I'll still be looking to get the burr situation sorted though. Will be a royal ballache to send the grinder back though! Worst case, I'll have to replace the burrs and pre breaker myself and do the alignment dance as best I can.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> Ok, I'll give it a shot with less grounds in the basket. I'll still be looking to get the burr situation sorted though. Will be a royal ballache to send the grinder back though! Worst case, I'll have to replace the burrs and pre breaker myself and do the alignment dance as best I can.


Pre Breaker and Burrs could be £450-500 in total ..id would take it up with coffee italia. How did you pay them > if you ordered a " coffee burrs ( read not turkish burrs ) and you have that on an invoice - then you have been sent the wrong item and it shouldn't cost you a penny .

Xpenno's advice around the dose would be the way to go for now ..


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> You have Turkish burrs.
> 
> Paging @The Systemic Kid where do you grind for spro on the dial Patrick?
> 
> Out of interest, can I ask what your thought process was behind getting an entry level espresso machine and an end-game grinder? It's an unusual pairing and somewhat doesn't surprise me that it's giving odd results.


 @risky On the 3FE dial - which goes up to 22 - my espresso range is from 4.0 to 6.5.


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

Smart move Methinks... If this was an MC2 he'd have got "read boots' noob guide & get back to us" by now, as it is he has full on crash cart, ECG & "CALL THE CONSULTANTS!!!" rofl. The grind is strong in this one


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

CoffeeItalia have very mixed reports on customer service. Fingers crossed they sort this out without too much hassle to you.

I would have thought it would be cheaper for them to ship the new Burrs and breaker to you and pay for a qualified engineer to fit them than to pay the crate shipping back and forth of the whole ek43... Not to mention the right thing to do. May be worth suggesting to them if you get a good line of communication open.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> I would have thought it would be cheaper for them to ship the new Burrs and breaker to you and pay for a qualified engineer to fit them than to pay the crate shipping back and forth of the whole ek43... Not to mention the right thing to do.


How much do you think it costs to ship a box to Italy?


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

What about Occam's razor? Unless I am wrong, OP has only tried one bag of coffee with his brand new gear. Maybe that type or even that batch is not good.

What about trying different beans, or the same beans in a different grinder?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jimbocz said:


> What about Occam's razor? Unless I am wrong, OP has only tried one bag of coffee with his brand new gear. Maybe that type or even that batch is not good.
> 
> What about trying different beans, or the same beans in a different grinder?


Agree it will still make great espresso

I isn't though what he paid 4 figures for


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

I've tried a few different beans and observed the same results. Most of my discussions on here are using the same bean in order to attempt to rule out different beans needing different treatment.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> I've tried a few different beans and observed the same results. Most of my discussions on here are using the same bean in order to attempt to rule out different beans needing different treatment.


The grinder isn't faulty - it's just not what you ordered - if the Turks are good enough to for Tsk and maxwell ( or is it John Gordon ) then I'm sure it can make good drinks


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jonbutler88 said:


> I've tried a few different beans and observed the same results. Most of my discussions on here are using the same bean in order to attempt to rule out different beans needing different treatment.


So grinding finer chokes the machine? You either choke it, or get sour shots?


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

No doubt, I still have some experimenting to do after getting the burrs right. I have a feeling my next problem will likely be the pressure the DTP kicks out.

I've not found a grind setting yet which can complete the shot before the 1 minute cutoff, and not end up sour.


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

jonbutler88 said:


> No doubt, I still have some experimenting to do after getting the burrs right. I have a feeling my next problem will likely be the pressure the DTP kicks out.
> 
> I've not found a grind setting yet which can complete the shot before the 1 minute cutoff, and not end up sour.


Even at 15g?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

jonbutler88 said:


> No doubt, I still have some experimenting to do after getting the burrs right. I have a feeling my next problem will likely be the pressure the DTP kicks out.
> 
> I've not found a grind setting yet which can complete the shot before the 1 minute cutoff, and not end up sour.


With all coffees ? Including be fudge and the has bean - what else have you tried ?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I've had 20 in 60 out in 20 second shots before that have been fine flavour wise, just a very thin. Can you get down to anything like normal parameters?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

jonbutler88 said:


> No doubt, I still have some experimenting to do after getting the burrs right. I have a feeling my next problem will likely be the pressure the DTP kicks out.
> 
> I've not found a grind setting yet which can complete the shot before the 1 minute cutoff, and not end up sour.


Tackle one problem, at a time.

So no matter how long (in grams a shot) you pull, it is always sour?

Perhaps we need to recap regarding your current settings, brew ratio & shot time?


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

No, I've not managed to try any shots below 18g yet. I'm away until Thursday now so I won't be able to try any of these suggestions until then.

I've pulled longer shots that get a bit thinner as they go, but still have the sour taste.


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## jimbocz (Jun 5, 2015)

Why don't we trade grinders for a bit? I've got a Greaf CM800 that works fine with the DTP. We could switch for a few weeks or so.....


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## jonbutler88 (Dec 31, 2015)

Maybe you can give me some comedy lessons when we trade









It sounds like I have a lot of things to try and sort, so I'll have a play when I'm back on Thursday and let you know how I get on with 15g doses.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> How much do you think it costs to ship a box to Italy?


They have shipping warehouses in each country they sell in don't they?

Although I guess this is irrelevant for returns.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Dylan said:


> They have shipping warehouses in each country they sell in don't they?
> 
> Although I guess this is irrelevant for returns.


How much do you think it costs to ship a box to Italy?


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## oursus (Jun 5, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> How much do you think it costs to ship a box to Italy?


Boxes, not so much, it's when you start filling them with commercial catering equipment


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> How much do you think it costs to ship a box to Italy?


With an ek43 in it? A lot?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Much, much less than the price "for them to ship the new Burrs and breaker to you and pay for a qualified engineer to fit them"


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Much, much less than the price "for them to ship the new Burrs and breaker to you and pay for a qualified engineer to fit them"


Yea, I think I was reaching with the qualified engineer part, but hey ho, would still be the best way to resolve it.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Sending the grinder Jon actually ordered would be best.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

View attachment 19609


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