# LONDINIUM I Spring Lever Espresso Machine - first look review



## Glenn

Many delighted owners have received their LONDINIUM I spring lever espresso machines and have been using them for the last month or so.

The following link is to the original review and discussion: http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?7632-LONDINIUM-I-spring-lever-espresso-machine


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## Glenn

I've just seen that over 50 LONDINIUM I machines have been shipped already.


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## RoloD

Finally plumbed in my Londinium I (via an Everpure Claris filter system). It's great to be free of the sound of the pump and never have to worry about filling it up.

I'll post some videos of it in action over the next week or so.


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## aaronb

Having a social gathering, guests having great fun pulling coffees and drinking them on londinium I


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## RoloD

aaronb said:


> Having a social gathering, guests having great fun pulling coffees and drinking them on londinium I


You're letting your guests pull coffee? For free?


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## aaronb

RoloD said:


> You're letting your guests pull coffee? For free?


One released the lever a bit too quick but it's going well.

I've had plenty of wine so it's all good!


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## iroko

I'm really enjoying my machine, but I'm still having trouble getting decent microfoam, need more practice.


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## Glenn

Keep working on it iroko. The LONDINIUM I produces great milk once you get the knack of it. Lots of power from the steam arm. Londinium now has a selection of tips for purchase.


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## RoloD

I've found the 4 x 1mm tip much easier than the regular one.


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## iroko

I've been messing around with the different tips, just need to get used to the power and find the sweet spot.


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## nobody

Glenn, I'm a newbie, and after visited sant'eustachio in Rome, I (and my wife) have been bitten by espresso bug.

So I decided to buy espresso machine for home use.

With your experience, which machine should fit for beginners? I'm also thinking about Vibiemme Domobar Super 2B (with temperature control). Comparing with Londinium I, which one will be more forgiving to the newbies? Which one, in theory, will pull better espresso? Or should I just go ahead and get Mypressi and be done with it?

Thanks in advance, Nobody.


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## RoloD

I think lever machines are very forgiving and they have a charm of their own. They do with mechanics (the design of the piston itself) what many 'advanced' machines do with electronics (temperature and pressure 'profiling') and there is less to go wrong and, contrary to some opinions, a machine like the Londinium is not difficult to use. On the other hand, dual boiler machines with PID control allow you to fiddle and tweak to your heart's content.

I don't know the Vibiemme, but if you are in the market for a pump/E61 machine also look at the Rocket, Expobar Leva Dual, and the Fracino Cherub - all have very satisfied users on this forum.

If you want a machine for home use with a commercial lever group, the Londinium doesn't really have much competition.

Which will give the best espresso? Lever fans will tell you levers can't be beat, but those with pump machines might say otherwise...

But don't forget the grinder - some say it more important than the machine itself.

General introduction to espresso machines here.


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## nobody

Thanks, RoloD.

Based on your owner experience, which lever machine do you like better? Londinium I or Olympia Cremina 67?


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## RoloD

nobody said:


> Thanks, RoloD.
> 
> Based on your owner experience, which lever machine do you like better? Londinium I or Olympia Cremina 67?


 - Advantages of the Cremina - It is wonderfully small, there is a certain sensual pleasure in the manual lever, it will last forever. It's a cult object.

- Disadvatanges of the Cremina - It is ludicrously overpriced, it doesn't pull a full double shot, it has a very small drip tray, you have to undo the boiler cap to fill it up and if it's hot, it's like taking the cap off a hot car radiator. After a few shots it begins to heat up.

- Advantages of the Londinium - Great temperature stability, great steaming power, great consistency. You can plumb it in. Standard 58mm group. Espresso doesn't get much better than this. New, it is £1000 cheaper than a Cremina.

- Disadvantages of the Londinium - It's big. The pump (if you have a pump+tank version) makes a noise.

Both make great coffee. But my Cremina is now on eBay.

Does that answer your question?


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## Glenn

Lever machines are forgiving to a degree, but need to be paired with a decent grinder (as does any machine really)

There is a world of difference between a mypressi TWIST, the espresso machines you mention and the LONDINIUM I.

I'd suggest posting the questions in another thread with what you're hoping to get out of your coffee experience.

Also a budget will be useful as the machines suggested range from just over £100 to just under £2000


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## CoffeeDoc

Very tempted by Londinium 1, what grinder would you suggest to complement the machine?

Paul


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## Glenn

I would suggest a Vario as minimum


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## sjenner

I probably had the very first installed direct plumbed Londinium I, and can confirm with the other owner/drivers here, that Reiss's "Londinium Lever" is an absolute gem.

As for grinding, I agree that employing the best grinder that you possibly can, is fundamental to great home espresso (anywhere else for that matter!).

This is my first espresso machine... In the last 15 years or so I have mainly used a "mocha pot" and gradually improved my grinder to my current Mazzer Super Jolly...

...I am aware of the significant difference from beans ground in a Robur and as such, I am also an HG One "Dot", I am expecting to have to cough up the remaining price + shipping in the next few days...

...Exciting times!

Edit: added qualifier, as originally it seemed that I just like grinding







(If I knew what it was...)


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## Glenn

Which HG One version did you go for? (burr size?)


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## sjenner

83mm

(Is this the shortest reply ever?)










Not including the last bit of course!


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## 4085

I would like to buy an HG One but checking their website of course they are out of stock. I am pleased as in reality, I would like to hang fire a bit and see how the users react to them once they are more readily available. I love the design, but will it carry through? For $850 their is nothing quite like it I suppose. Add in shipping and it comes to about £620, then there may or may not be import duty.

Now, I am not an expert on many things, and certainly not grinders! It always seems that the Super Jolly is about the most revered grinder in the UK domestic scene, and for £620 you are about bang on to buy a new one. So, if you could only have one or the other, which one would you shell out for, and in reality, are there any other contenders?

If I had my time over again, I would go for a Mahlkonig K30 that I have owned before, but you are now talking about £1250 an that is an awful lot of money for a domestic user to have sitting making a few shots a day. So, do you stick (with a Eureka Mignon) or twist?


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## sjenner

dfk41 said:


> ...I love the design, but will it carry through? For $850 their is nothing quite like it I suppose. Add in shipping and it comes to about £620, then there may or may not be import duty.


It's effectively a Mazzer Robur (3 phase version), which is somewhere in the region of £1800 ish? And the fair exchange is hand power for a straight path, I suppose.


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## AndyS

sjenner said:


> It's effectively a Mazzer Robur (3 phase version)


Ha! I have a 3 phase Robur in my kitchen and an HG One on order, so the comparison should be interesting!


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## aaronb

I'd stick with the mignon for now at least, there is always time to change grinders down the line.


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## 4085

sjenner, do you know if the export price is cheaper than $840 (83 mm), on the assumption we may have to pay VAT or import duty? The L1 is advertised at £1300, which is the export price with UK residents having then to pay VAT. Any ideas?


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## sjenner

dfk41 said:


> sjenner, do you know if the export price is cheaper than $840 (83 mm), on the assumption we may have to pay VAT or import duty? The L1 is advertised at £1300, which is the export price with UK residents having then to pay VAT. Any ideas?


Hi dfk41..

It is the full price $850 Roughly £530, the Vat (if you get caught) is around £100, the biggest problem for me is that HG messed up with the shipping cost, which they told me was around $75, and then about a week back I got an email which said they had made a mistake and the shipping was now $195... I had to think about that one for a few minutes.


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## 4085

I read about shipping and the problem. They are quoting $145 to the UK so it makes it about £620, with the vat after that. I have 10 days or so to make my mind up as I have one reserved now. Have to sleep on it!


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## sjenner

Ah... You is a fellow dot!


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## The Systemic Kid

See that projected delivery for LI has slipped well past the quoted three weeks. Personally, I think Reiss deserves a medal for bringing the whole project to fruition and am happy to wait patiently until mine rolls off the production line.


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## 4085

Mine is forecast for the end of the first week of february. Hey ho!


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## mitussis

For something innovative, supporting local industry, etc, I agree worth a little patience.

@dfk41, I ordered mine earlyish December, I guess you did about the same time.

@The Systemic Kid, I see you are Lancs as well, I'm plumbing mine and decided I didn't need filtering. Did you come to same conclusion?


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## The Systemic Kid

Mitussis - great, another LI aficionado in Lancs! Has your LI arrived? Didn't place my order until beginning of Jan.

I would like to have gone for plumbed in to save on the hassle of refilling but my kitchen layout makes this a no no. In fact, I was going to give up on a LI altogether as we have cupboards overhanging the work surfaces. Did a bit of lateral thinking and came up with the solution of siting the LI in the dining area of the kitchen. Meant buying a cupboard (arrived yesterday) solely for the LI. Wouldn't believe the hassle finding a cupboard deep enough to take the LI.

Would have gone for a filter if I had plumbed the LI in. Water in N West is pretty soft but still full of impurities. A friend of mine ran a photographic shop in Blackpool many years ago and did in-house developing and printing. He had a filtration system installed with two filters so he could change filters without having to interrupt supply. I couldn't believe the difference two weeks filtering could make on the filter. The standby one was pristine white, the one online was really fouled up - olive green in colour. So, it's Volvic for me!

Let me know how you get on - send me a PM and I'll send my email.


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## 4085

If you check the blog on h Londinium home gage he lists the orders which will be dispatched next


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## The Systemic Kid

Saw that this morning. Sadly, mine isn't on the latest list. They say patience is a virtue but as I've never met her, I couldn't possibly comment. Finger nails might be down to the cuticle by delivery day!


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## mitussis

Mine's not in the latest list but judging from the number in each build and gaps in the order numbers, it should be in the one after (fingers crossed).

@The Systemic Kid, If your friend had green stains in his filter, what kind of filter was it? One of the ones with white mesh filter rather than carbon?

Lancs water certainly much tastier than the East Midlands.

I checked the online report at United Utilities and did some research and it seemed good enough (and the taste is much better than in Nottingham, where I always filter).


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## The Systemic Kid

They were white ceramic filters. I recall being appalled at what seemed like fronds of greenish filaments and other deposits on the ceramic filter. I agree our water is better than the Midlands but still has too much chlorine in it.


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## 4085

My order number is 4625 and I have been told first week if feb


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## The Systemic Kid

Sold and delivered my Silvia today so I am without a machine and already beginning to suffer espresso withdrawal. Makes the wait for LI arrival more anticipated. Think I might have a look at a Handpresso for the interim.


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## mitussis

From Reiss's blog and twitter posts, things seem to be getting closer for the three of us.

@The Systematic Kid, I did some more researching. Seems ceramic filters are best for larger particles, typically organic matter (so the green makes sense). I don't think the chlorine should be a problem, will come out of solution when heated.


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## lespresso

all - some good news today - we thought we were going to run out of boilers soon, but they too have arrived so next week will be making ALL of the standard (not Luxe) machines that we have orders for

so if you were pondering a purchase of the standard L1, if you order this week we will have them all made by next fri, 8 feb, and would ship them on mon 11 feb

i sincerely apologise to you all, especially the guy with the bookshop as this is impacting his business

reiss.


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## The Systemic Kid

Reiss, good things are worth waiting for! But it's great news to hear they will soon be on their way.


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## 4085

So if I downgrade to a standard, I will get it sooner!


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## sjenner

dfk41 said:


> So if I downgrade to a standard, I will get it sooner!


Oi...









I've got a standard, probably the first directly plumbed one, and due to the aforementioned problem with boiler shift during transport, it was installed in my kitchen under the supervision of Reiss, who attended with spare part (a brass washer that had cracked during transit)...

...And it is all a matter of personal taste and preference. I bought the standard because even though the polishing and the grand revealing of fabled polished boiler on the Luxe is a magnificent thing...

...It is not to my taste.

As soon as he comes up with some decent dark coloured (ebony or whatever) hardwood handles, my order will be in like Flynn.

As for the HG ONE... Absolutely brilliant... Crank removed as per the consensus... Londinium Lever with HG One... Probably the finest combination on earth, if not heaven too.

BTW: dfk41, I misread your question from some time back - post #25, not that it matters now... But basically they have different rates of "sales" taxes in every state (tax competition), so the published price of almost everything stateside is sans tax.


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## 4085

I do love the HG One, to the point that I have ordered and paid for mine. I am not sure exactly what I am going to say to the Mrs when it turns up, but, hey ho! It is only an extra couple of pairs of jimmy whathisname shoes!

SJ, can you explain more about the crank removal. Reiss talks about it in his blog but where will I find out more?


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## sjenner

dfk41 said:


> I do love the HG One, to the point that I have ordered and paid for mine. I am not sure exactly what I am going to say to the Mrs when it turns up, but, hey ho! It is only an extra couple of pairs of jimmy whathisname shoes!
> 
> SJ, can you explain more about the crank removal. Reiss talks about it in his blog but where will I find out more?


OK, when you open the HG One box, the grinder is almost complete... All that is required is to fit the handle to the flywheel.

In the original design, the flywheel had the handle bolted directly to it, but following a series of (on the job) tests by Californian baristas, it was decided to add an extra bit of assistance... A bar was added to the flywheel, to make the turning circle bigger and therefore easier to turn.

The upshot is that you start to look and feel a bit like "Windy Miller" from Trumpton as you turn the wheel everything starts to move... Head, shoulders, torso...









Return it to it's original design... simply remove this bar by using the supplied 5mm Allen key...

...Then mount the handle (according to instructions) directly to the wheel.

NB: The little black button that finishes off the grinder (aesthetically) is as Paul and Craig state "a tight fit", so it is best not to fit it until you are happy with or without the extension bar.


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## iroko

The grinder looks cool, I must resist the temptation.


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## The Systemic Kid

Sjenner, could you possibly provide the footprint dimensions for HG One? Also, am I correct that this grinder has to be ordered from the States? If so, what additional import tax/VAT are payable? Many thanks.


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## 4085

SJ, thanks for posting that and clearing it up for me. I am hoping for my invoice tomorrow, making it due here sometime next week. I wish I had not cancelled the first one now but the guys have been very helpful. I wonder how many units they have actually built and sold so far.


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## MarkyP

dfk41 said:


> SJ, thanks for posting that and clearing it up for me. I am hoping for my invoice tomorrow, making it due here sometime next week. I wish I had not cancelled the first one now but the guys have been very helpful. I wonder how many units they have actually built and sold so far.


I wondered how long you could resist!!!


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## sjenner

The Systemic Kid said:


> Sjenner, could you possibly provide the footprint dimensions for HG One? Also, am I correct that this grinder has to be ordered from the States? If so, what additional import tax/VAT are payable? Many thanks.


Hi Systemic Kid, The base is 8½" x 8½", including the handle it is around a foot (12"), to the top of the flywheel is around 17". It does have to be ordered from HG One, price for the 71mm burr version is $840 and the 83mm version is $850, there is a shipping fee of around $195, you might get stung for VAT as well which is 20%... I always get hit for VAT but some people sometimes avoid it, assume you are going to have to give the Queen yet another 100 or so of your hard-earned quids... Between £650 and £750, which for the best grinder in the history of grinders... (so far...!) is a bargain.


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## The Systemic Kid

Many thank Sjenner. Think I will have to start saving now. One more question. What is the difference between the 71mm and 83mm versions.......apart from the burr sets!


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## 4085

Nowt! They are now making them all with 83 m and only fitting the smaller ones if required


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## 4085

Well, I paid for my HG one today.....it will be here before my L1 I suspect!


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## The Systemic Kid

Looked on the HG site - they're not, apparently, taking any new orders at the moment. Hopefully, that will change soon. Checking the Londinium blog, the wait for LI may soon be at an end. I received my order for naked portafilter, espresso cups and other bits and bobs on Friday from Londinium which I am taking as a good omen vis a vis the arrival of my LI.


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## 4085

The Standards are being built this week and they hope to be fully

Up to date with them, so if yours is a standard it will be here soon. If it is a Luxe then you will be waiting a bit longer


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## The Systemic Kid

That's really good to hear. Been without a machine for two and a half weeks and am beginning to go a bit stir crazy! I keep telling myself this adds to the sense of anticipation but I am missing my espressos badly.


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## 4085

Buy an Aeropress. Fantastic standby kit for £25!


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## The Systemic Kid

Funnily enough, I've been looking for an interim espresso solution and was going to buy a Handpresso. A helpful post steered me to Mypressi and I thought that would do the trick. Unfortunately, Cream Supplies emailed me to say it won't be in stock for some time. As Reiss at Londinium gave a very favourable thumbs up for the Mypressi, I think I will get one if and when they come back into stock. Incidentally, Cream Supplies prices on Motta accessories are very competitive - bought a jug and knock box from them.


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## sjenner

The Systemic Kid said:


> Funnily enough, I've been looking for an interim espresso solution and was going to buy a Handpresso. A helpful post steered me to Mypressi and I thought that would do the trick. Unfortunately, Cream Supplies emailed me to say it won't be in stock for some time. As Reiss at Londinium gave a very favourable thumbs up for the Mypressi, I think I will get one if and when they come back into stock. Incidentally, Cream Supplies prices on Motta accessories are very competitive - bought a jug and knock box from them.


I heard a rumour that MyPressi was in trouble and unlikely to be around much longer. I haven't tried Aeropress, it has a very good reputation for being the nearest thing to espresso that isn't... Whereas MyPressi is espresso in the technical sense of the word... it pushes water through a bed of coffee at 8 bar, but the techniques required to learn it and to keep it hot, make it quite a palaver to use... Makes good coffee though.


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## Steve_S_T

I'd love to try a MyPressi (still available btw - http://www.amazon.co.uk/mypressi-TWIST-Handheld-Espresso-Maker/dp/B003XT6AX6) but I like the taste of Aeropress too much to justify spending close to £200.00 on a portable Espresso maker that's probably not going to work too well (water temperature wise) on an outdoor trip for instance.

Steve.


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## sjenner

Steve_S_T said:


> I'd love to try a MyPressi (still available btw - http://www.amazon.co.uk/mypressi-TWIST-Handheld-Espresso-Maker/dp/B003XT6AX6) but I like the taste of Aeropress too much to justify spending close to £200.00 on a portable Espresso maker that's probably not going to work too well (water temperature wise) on an outdoor trip for instance.
> 
> Steve.


The problem that I have found with MyPressi as a travelling tool is that you can't take it on a plane... The little canisters of N02 are like little bombs and security types aren't too keen.

As a backup, Bialetti works and Aeropress is probably better, though I don't have one (yet).


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## Steve_S_T

I love the Bialetti but as you also need a stove or burner to make it work it's not ideal for chucking in the rucsac when out walking or even for taking to hotels whereas the additional weight of the Aeropress is negligible and we usually take a full flask on walks anyway and hotels have kettles.

Seattle Coffee did a video review of the MyPressi and I recall them making a couple of comments about not being able to take the NO2 canisters on planes but how easy they are to source from many places. I remain sceptical about that.

Steve.


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## sjenner

Steve_S_T said:


> Seattle Coffee did a video review of the MyPressi and I recall them making a couple of comments about not being able to take the NO2 canisters on planes but how easy they are to source from many places. I remain sceptical about that.
> 
> Steve.


I attempted to get some in Ireland.

Failed.


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## Steve_S_T

sjenner said:


> I attempted to get some in Ireland.
> 
> Failed.


Where do you get them from out if interest, bike shops? They look the same as the canisters used in non pump bicycle tyre inflators.

Steve.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## The Systemic Kid

I only want to use a Mypressi in the UK on trips so the gas cartridges aren't a problem. The Amazon seller is asking too much - around £190.00 where Cream Supplies were doing them for £120.00 delivered which, for me, is worth a punt. Gas cartridges are, I believe, available from Cream Supplies in packs of either 24 or 48. These are nitrogen filled but I think you can get useable cartridges filled with CO2.


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## vintagecigarman

Catering suppliers - they power the rechargeable whippy cream canisters.


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## The Systemic Kid

Just watched the YouTube review of the Mypressi by the indomitable Gail and she gave a very +ve thumbs up on shot quality which chimes with Reiss Gunson's comments. The downside is the Mypressi is heavy so not really suitable perhaps for lugging around in a rucksack. But as a viable way of producing a decent shot away from home, Mypressi doesn't seem to have an equal. Only trouble is they are currently unavailavle!


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## Steve_S_T

The Systemic Kid said:


> , Mypressi doesn't seem to have an equal. Only trouble is they are currently unavailavle!


Not entirely unavailable. See here - http://www.amazon.co.uk/mypressi-TWIST-Handheld-Espresso-Maker/dp/B003XT6AX6 and here - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mypressi-Coffee-Expresso-maker-Stainless-Steel-/271149588051?pt=Coffee_Machines_Makers&hash=item3f21c65e53 for starters.


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## 4085

aeropress........£25.........no argument!


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## The Systemic Kid

I don't think the Aeropress and the Mypressi are direct competitors. The Mypressi is marketed as an espresso maker where the Aeropress is not and that's now it should be judged, i.e. does it produce an acceptable espresso. From the reviews I've read, including Reiss's, is that it does. Reiss's endorsement is good enough for me. The Aeropress's strengths and appeal lie in a different domain of coffee making.

Thanks to the helpful comments including the pointer to the one on Ebay currently, I've found a seller who has it in stock and have placed an order - price - £110 exc delivery. Not cheap but I think it will be worth it. Will post my experience with it after trying it out.


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## The Systemic Kid

Pays to read the small print!

Was about to complete my order for the Mypressi and decided to re-read the blurb. Turns out it's a VI version as is the one on Ebay so I backed off. The unit has been tweaked by the manufacturer to address some design faults in the V2 version. So I will have to wait and see if it comes back into stock. Hey ho.


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## sjenner

The Systemic Kid said:


> Pays to read the small print!
> 
> Was about to complete my order for the Mypressi and decided to re-read the blurb. Turns out it's a VI version as is the one on Ebay so I backed off. The unit has been tweaked by the manufacturer to address some design faults in the V2 version. So I will have to wait and see if it comes back into stock. Hey ho.


I was out last night and I am just reading through... I was about to warn you Systemic Kid that certainly the one on ebay was a V1, and that you needed to check first. Apparently that version had some problems.


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## The Systemic Kid

Might have a punt on the one on Ebay but I suspect it will go for a silly price. Sensible option would be to wait and see if Mypressi reopen production.


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## sjenner

The Systemic Kid said:


> Might have a punt on the one on Ebay but I suspect it will go for a silly price. Sensible option would be to wait and see if Mypressi reopen production.


I just looked on the MyPressi website and they seem to be selling V2 and also reconditioned V2's...

http://mypressi.com/collections/all

I put one in the cart and I was then invited to go to PayPal...

Obviously as I already have one, I didn't go further, but they might not ship to the UK for instance...


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## CoffeeDoc

Amazing, a forum for fabulous lever machines and all we talk about are Mypressi and Aeropress!

Paul


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## The Systemic Kid

Just shows that lever aficionados have quite eclectic tastes. Think we should broaden this thread to examine the gustatory excellence of Nespresso! Mmm.


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## The Systemic Kid

Some advice on Londinium 1 naked portafilter welcomed. Got a package of goodies - espresso cups, digital scales and naked portafilter from Londinium ahead of delivery of my L1. Checking the portafilter, I noticed that end of the handle is open, i.e. you can see right down inside. Should it have an end cap on it? It's only a small thing but it will niggle unless I check it out. Thought I'd check with other L1 users first before approaching Reiss. Also, I noticed that the basket is a really tight fit. I see the retaining spring has three points of contact on the basket ridge as opposed to the usual two I've been accustomed to with other portafilters. Took a while to prise the basket out. Upside is that it hold a ridgeless basket very securely which is a bonus if I decide to use it.


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## RoloD

The Systemic Kid said:


> Some advice on Londinium 1 naked portafilter welcomed. Got a package of goodies - espresso cups, digital scales and naked portafilter from Londinium ahead of delivery of my L1. Checking the portafilter, I noticed that end of the handle is open, i.e. you can see right down inside. Should it have an end cap on it? It's only a small thing but it will niggle unless I check it out. Thought I'd check with other L1 users first before approaching Reiss. Also, I noticed that the basket is a really tight fit. I see the retaining spring has three points of contact on the basket ridge as opposed to the usual two I've been accustomed to with other portafilters.


 My LI portafilters all have holes in the handle. Does this disturb you?

Yes, the baskets are a tight fit but if you use a naked PF you can just press it out with your thumbs - no prising necessary.


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## The Systemic Kid

No, it doesn't bother me - thanks for confirming.


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## aaronb

yep my stock and bottomless portafilters have holes.

I was unsure about the lip on the bottomless pf at first but its so well machined I love it now.


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## sjenner

The Systemic Kid said:


> Some advice on Londinium 1 naked portafilter welcomed. Got a package of goodies - espresso cups, digital scales and naked portafilter from Londinium ahead of delivery of my L1. Checking the portafilter, I noticed that end of the handle is open, i.e. you can see right down inside. Should it have an end cap on it? It's only a small thing but it will niggle unless I check it out. Thought I'd check with other L1 users first before approaching Reiss. Also, I noticed that the basket is a really tight fit. I see the retaining spring has three points of contact on the basket ridge as opposed to the usual two I've been accustomed to with other portafilters. Took a while to prise the basket out. Upside is that it hold a ridgeless basket very securely which is a bonus if I decide to use it.


The ridge-less baskets from VST work really well with the tight retaining spring, and I also found that with the stock double basket, that with regular use, the fit is easier eventually, I use the 15g VST basket almost exclusively.

There is a guy called Stephen (fotondrv) on Home Barista, who is currently on a project to replace the stock handles with some hardwood, which I think is a great idea, and was also going to be in the Luxe version, but Reiss could not find a decent design at that stage and postponed the idea, and I read a couple of days ago of someone who has used La Marzocco portafilter handles as a replacement... None of which makes the coffee taste better, but must be fun anyway.


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## aaronb

fotondrv posts on here under a different name as well, although I haven't seen him here in a while.

very knowledgeable guy!

Not sure wood does it for me, I quite like the black against steel but of course its very subjective.


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## The Systemic Kid

Second that!


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## Bainbridge

Has anyone ordered the plumbed/tanked option? I'm considering it at the moment.


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## RoloD

Bainbridge said:


> Has anyone ordered the plumbed/tanked option? I'm considering it at the moment.


Mine is plumbed in via a Claris Everpure. Works great.


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## sjenner

Bainbridge said:


> Has anyone ordered the plumbed/tanked option? I'm considering it at the moment.


Not sure what you mean Bainbridge...

The default mode is with a tank and that one can be plumbed or not... My one has no tank, it is just plumbed in permanently. The advantage with the tank, is that you can use "volvic" or similar, or any other type of water that one can think of... The downside (for me) was the noise that the pump makes, but that might well not be a game changer.

The plumbed version can only use what you can give it. I chose the plumbed in version because I wanted to use "reverse osmosis" water, but I soon found out that pure RO is a "no no" in that it is too acidic by definition and will rot the boiler eventually. Also it is said that RO water makes an overly "bright" espresso.

However, one can use a traditional water softener, or the more modern (but expensive) Claris type of softener. So I bought a Claris and I am not overly impressed, I have it set to the severest setting, it is still not getting rid of enough hardness and will have a shorter lifespan than if I lived somewhere a long way from London where the water is actually drinkable. Once this cartridge is spent, I will probably get myself a new RO system with a pump and most importantly a "calcite" filter, which isn't really a filter, rather a depositor, since it adds a measured amount of calcium/magnesium hardness to the RO water and so overcomes the above mentioned problem.

It would not be wise to run a Londinium on plain unmodified hard water (as in London), your Londinium would be back at the factory for a rebuild tout suite. This is not a Londinium problem, this is an "espresso in London" problem, and would be the same for any machine.


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## The Systemic Kid

Having read Reiss's blog post on different water profiles and the one, in his opinion, which comes close to being perfect for LI espresso extraction is Volvic. I thought hard about going for a plumbed in LI but went for the tank version in the end. I live in a soft water area but I still wouldn't use unfiltered mains water as I don't think it's fit for purpose chlorine, fluoride and other 'non-harmful' detritus. Using bottled water is a hassle but it's reassuring to know it's matched to the LI.


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## sjenner

The Systemic Kid said:


> Having read Reiss's blog post on different water profiles and the one, in his opinion, which comes close to being perfect for LI espresso extraction is Volvic. I thought hard about going for a plumbed in LI but went for the tank version in the end. I live in a soft water area but I still wouldn't use unfiltered mains water as I don't think it's fit for purpose chlorine, fluoride and other 'non-harmful' detritus. Using bottled water is a hassle but it's reassuring to know it's matched to the LI.


Yes, the key seems to be water which is low, rather than no suspended solids. London (and the south east) are very poor when it comes to water quality... I used to work in Tonbridge and "bits" used to congregate at the bottom of a tumbler of water... ugh!


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## Glenn

I used Volvic when evaluating the LONDINIUM I.


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## 4085

I have a plumbed in L1, and living in a soft water area, thought long and hard about a filter system. In the end, I decided against it, because I do drink my tap water and find it quite ok. I did consider putting a carbon filter in, but having run taste tests the difference of unfiltered to filtered coming into my house was negligible. I never descale my kettle and sleep ok at night!


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## vintagecigarman

The Systemic Kid said:


> S Checking the portafilter, I noticed that end of the handle is open, i.e. you can see right down inside. Should it have an end cap on it? It's only a small thing but it will niggle unless I check it out.


Sorry not to have spotted this sooner.

A fair few E61 portafilter handles have holes in the end.

This may (subject to the size being right) do the trick:

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/espresso-parts/generic-coffee-machine-parts/chromed-filter-holder-handle-plug.html

I know that BB charge a fortune for standard postage, but if it looks like it might do the job, if you talk nicely to Claudette she may just send one out in a jiffy bag at a more reasonable rate.


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## vintagecigarman

Glenn said:


> I used Volvic when evaluating the LONDINIUM I.


Hi Glenn: I haven't got a L1 (yet) but I've noticed the mention of Volvic before. I live in a hard water area and descale my Rocket every couple of months, which is a pain. I'd gladly go for the additional cost of Volvic to reduce the frequency of descaling.

Is Volvic so good that I can go for extended periods without descaling? I have a descale due imminently, and if I switch to Volvic after that, is the need for regular scaling dramatically reduced?


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## lespresso

vintage cigar man - im not glenn, but the answer is yes - to at least 3 years in my experience, perhaps 5 years with less use and even then you'll only have the lightest of 'dustings'


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## aaronb

I'm using volvic in my L1, the tap water here is terrible (we go through a kettle every couple of years) - no way I'm subjecting that to my L1!


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## 4085

On a change of tack, I am trying to understand the different approach of an E61 to a lever. With an electric machine, you press a switch which forces water into the group head, and after a short period of time, the pressure increases causing the pre infusion drip (if any) to the pour. The shot is killed by the user, but the pressure remains fairly constant throughout the shot............have I got that bit about right?

On, for example, the L1, you bring the lever down, that introduces a measure of water into the group head, once pre infusion drips show (and that length of time is so variable, depending on bean type, roast colour and tamp) then the lever handle is returned at which point the pressure is released and the shot starts, but the pressure ebbs away until at the end, there is no pressure to extract anything.

OK, over to those who know!


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## The Systemic Kid

As I understand it, with a lever such as LI, both the temperature and pressure reduce as the shot progresses which is not the case with any pump pressure driven system, E61 or otherwise. According to the LI's designer, this benefits the best extraction profile - something I am really looking forward to putting to the test.


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## Glenn

Reiss beat me to it but I understand this to be the case.


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## 4085

But what I am after, is a brief description of the actual process from pulling the lever down, to raising it. I like to understand these things in. Schoolboy type way!


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## sjenner

dfk41 said:


> But what I am after, is a brief description of the actual process from pulling the lever down, to raising it. I like to understand these things in. Schoolboy type way!


There was a little bit on Home-Barista about the workings of the Londinium Lever, it might help:

http://www.home-barista.com/levers/londinium-videos-photos-by-owners-t24207-90.html


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## The Systemic Kid

Useful link - something to pore over whilst waiting for the LI to arrive. Heard from HG they are re-opening their shop shortly - fingers crossed I get lucky placing my order. More I read about the HG One, it seems ideally suited to LI.


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## sjenner

It seems to be open now, and they have around 30 machines left.


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## The Systemic Kid

sjenner said:


> It seems to be open now, and they have around 30 machines left.


Hi Stephen, just checked the site and they are showing 'out of stock'. Newsletter says the store opens on Monday to sell remaining stock. Am I looking in the right place?


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## sjenner

My apologies, I didn't go far enough in and you are looking ITRP.


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## The Systemic Kid

Just read Reiss's latest blog regarding the shipping of the latest run of LIs. They are going to be shipped with the top half of the group removed to prevent damage in transit. Seems like a very sensible idea. Makes me smile at the prospect of having to put it together a bit (memories of my Meccano set) - even if that is stretching the point every so slightly.


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## aaronb

before I forget, has anybody attempted to remove the shower screen with the teaspoon method, and if so can you explain to me how to do it?

I attempted it this morning but it wasn't having it


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## 4085

I have not done in on the L1, but in general, the shower screen ought to have a lip on it. You take 2 spoons (with sturdy handles) and turn them upside down, then prise the screen off. The screen is usually stuck pretty tight to the seal but it normally comes out.


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## iroko

It makes it easier if the machine is still warm, probably best to avoid the the thin part of the group where the portafilter goes in,

you dont want any damage.

Before you put it back smear a very thin coat of molycote 111, vaseline or londinium lube round the outside of the gasket.


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## shrink

i didnt realise that the L1 was made by fracino, and has basically the same boiler and innards as a cherub, just attached to a lever group instead of the E61.

Thats a hell of a price premium for a lever!

however, i do have to admit i'm hugely tempted to see if theres a way to get a hold of the steam/water flip levers to replace my rotary knobs!


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## RoloD

shrink said:


> i didnt realise that the L1 was made by fracino, and has basically the same boiler and innards as a cherub, just attached to a lever group instead of the E61.
> 
> Thats a hell of a price premium for a lever!


 But it's the lever group that is the heart of the machine, and it is one hell of a group. The boiler is, I believe, the same as the Cherub, but it is a custom designed thermo-syphon as opposed to a heat exchanger and the frame, case and fittings are different. So you are correct in saying that it shares some of the same parts as a Cherub; what it definitely isn't is a commercial lever group bolted on to a Cherub.


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## coffeechap

Just because something looks similar does not mean it is the same. The group is indeed world glass as used by Kees van der western. I believe that reiss at Londinium paired ip with Fracino as they are British and his desire was for the main body parts to be easily accessible for people in the future. Stating that this is an over priced lever is a little bit of An injustice, my bosco is £3500 and the L1 pulls just as good a shot at half the price!


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## The Systemic Kid

shrink said:


> Thats a hell of a price premium for a lever!


As Reiss points out, purchasers of Londinium Is are benefitting from buying from source rather than a reseller. If the latter were the case, LI would be at least half as much again and, as a consequence, beyond the pockets of those fortunate to be able to afford one. For those of us wanting a pure lever machine, the market isn't exactly brimming with choice. The Cremina lever machine is considerably more money and has its flaws. The Bosco is probably closest but costs way, way more. Personally, I am very grateful Reiss had the courage and determination to bring Londinium to market. I think I am getting a steal.


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## 4085

After only having owned mine for a few days, and having had teething troubles with shot quality at the start, I decided I was experienced enough to tear up the rule book and start playing around using my nose. I am testing the Horsham coffee and what was not so good on friday as the beans in my view had not rested long enough, today was palatable if not very pleasant. I know I will be shot down in pieces, but here i a link to a shot I pulled tonight. I am still playing around. i did not redistribute the grinds, merely tamped and there is a bit of channeling. I forgot to set the timer away so ended up guessing at 27 seconds, but the point is it produced a lovely looking/tasting shot which can only get better as I get more in tune with her!


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## shrink

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the l1 just surprised at the roots of it.

From what I can see, the main chassis, case top, boiler, steam and water supplies seem to be all cherub, and as I'm delighted with mine, I can see no reason not to use it as the basis for a very clever lever group. What's confusing is that londinium say it can be left on all day, but I'm not sure what they have done to the cherubs 2.3 litre boiler to make it not hugely power hungry.

An interesting machine for sure.


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## Avion100

Shrink

You have raised an interesting question. Whilst not doubting that LI can be left on all day, I wonder if anybody has monitored the energy consumption of the machine after the initial warm-up to determine the hourly cost of the working temperature being maintained.

It has also made me wonder why coffee machine boilers in general do not appear to have insulated boilers. Is this because it would interfere with the operation of the system, or due to the difficulty of insulating the boiler around the various connections and consequently increasing the package size and restricting maintenance access?

It would be interesting to hear the views of both manufacturers and users in this energy conscious world.


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## shrink

i think its because insulating the boiler with all the various taps and pipes coming off it, would be more complicated than just whacking a boiler in there.

I would like to insulate the cherub boiler at some point. Even with the standard pressure stat, it should need to come on less often, if the boiler is maintaining temperature.


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## lespresso

if you own a ferrari, do you complain about the price of petrol & insurance?

that's probably a bit churlish, but unless you're already taking cold showers, foregone the central heating, and have sold your car and don't take overseas holidays i wouldn't beat yourself up about it too much - after all roasting coffee is pretty energy inefficient too! - we should probably all move to a coffee flavoured ester in a pill

we often get questions from our German customers asking about insulating the boiler - go for it - no issue if you don't mind cutting a blanket to get around all the fittings & mucking around

the primary driver of how much it costs to run is a function of how much water you are heating and L1 has the smallest boiler for this type of machine by a country mile

aside from that, if you are worried about the environment you shouldnt buy a commercial lever group - they are just one big radiator giving off heat

still, you might be able to turn the central heating down a bit in the kitchen to offset the presence of the L1!

you can also turn it off - there is no obligation to leave it on all day; the point is it is capable of it & for some customers, e.g. the growing number of people that work at home, all day on pull & go is a pre-requisite in their buying decision


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## The Systemic Kid

lespresso said:


> we often get questions from our German customers asking about insulating the boiler.....


Think I've finally found a use for those crocheted toilet roll covers auntie Gladys sends every Christmas.


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## Nimble Motionists

I thought upgraditis was over for me when I bought my Expobar but I think reading about the L1 might've changed that. Will probably need to get a few more years use out of the current machine though before I can justify it!


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## MargaretPerron

It has infused the power of professional grade machinery into a manual espresso machine designed for home and office use.I love the smooth stainless steel body paneling. I have an espresso machine http://www.taceesi.com/products/la-marzocco/ which gives me a cup of espresso daily, i also got bitten by an espresso bug! Lol!


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