# Help! Flow rate way too fast.



## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

Hey team,

I have a 03/07 model & have had it since... well 07. It was in storage for ~4 years while I lived in UK (shout out to Lowestoft!) & back out again last year when I got back to NZ. In that time I also upgraded from a Rocky to a Niche and replaced the shower screen with a flat screw. Other than that I'm using the same water + beans as previous. Grinding around the 14-14 mark on the Niche. Tried various settings.

Problem: shots are fast. Super fast. I'm sure it didn't used to be this quick.

What I've done so far: adjusted the OPV. I suspected the pressure was high. Finally got round to getting a gauge etc & put it together (also, a philosophical q: why does this stuff always involve an injury?!). 11 bar. I loosened the OPV down to 9.

So today. I'm excited. This is going to be solved... Nope. 15g/65mls in 13 seconds. Out of interest I ran a shot for 23 seconds and got to 130mls. Had to stop at that point. Tested the pressure again a few times and it was between 9 & 10 bar. Takes around 3-4 seconds to build up after pressing the switch, then consistent. Whilst the lid was off today I noticed there is a small amount of steam behind the boiler after turning off the switch. Pic of the inside included. No rust or signs of obvious leakage.

Before messing with something else I thought I'd check in here. Am I doing something wrong here? Is there anything else I need to check?


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

Grind finer and see how you get on.


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## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

The only thing that slows the water is coffee. Try grinding finer. Depending on the bean, it's not unusual for me to grind at 9 on my niche (15g in 30 out in 25-30s on a v6 Silvia). Don't get hung up on the number though, the calibration is really for you to stay consistent, not for comparing across machines.

Keep going finer until you choke the machine and then go a bit coarser from there.

I assume you're using freshly roasted coffee, as old coffee also tends to run quicker.

I hope that helps


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

Oy_mckoy said:


> Before messing with something else I thought I'd check in here. Am I doing something wrong here? Is there anything else I need to check?


 How fresh is your coffee? What happens if you grind finer - does it slow things down? With the Niche you should be able to completely choke the machine. I assume you are not using a blind filter and can't see what the shot looks like, but does it look steady? Maybe if you post a video it will be easier to see what's going on?


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

Doram said:


> How fresh is your coffee? What happens if you grind finer - does it slow things down? With the Niche you should be able to completely choke the machine. I assume you are not using a blind filter and can't see what the shot looks like, but does it look steady? Maybe if you post a video it will be easier to see what's going on?


 The beans are from a local roaster. 11 days old.

OK. Videos. Same prep for each. 16 grams measured in the basket (essentially level to the rim). WDT with a skewer. Tamped with a calibrated tamper. Lovely looking bed.



Pressure test 


Shot 1. Niche Zero setting: 14. 16 grams in 65 mls out in ~13 seconds


Shot 2. Niche Zero setting: 11. 16 grams in 57 mls out in ~19 seconds


Shot 3. Niche Zero setting: 9. 16 grams in 56 mls out in ~23 seconds


The top is off so it's noisier than normal. The spurting is.

No shots of my face after tasting 5 coffees/espressos this morning.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

BenH said:


> The only thing that slows the water is coffee. Try grinding finer. Depending on the bean, it's not unusual for me to grind at 9 on my niche (15g in 30 out in 25-30s on a v6 Silvia). Don't get hung up on the number though, the calibration is really for you to stay consistent, not for comparing across machines.
> 
> Keep going finer until you choke the machine and then go a bit coarser from there.
> 
> ...


 Have a look at the Shot 3 vid above. Is that similar to your flow? It's still significantly more coffee out.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

newdent said:


> Grind finer and see how you get on.


 See vid in response above.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

Oy_mckoy said:


> The beans are from a local roaster. 11 days old.
> 
> OK. Videos. Same prep for each. 16 grams measured in the basket (essentially level to the rim). WDT with a skewer. Tamped with a calibrated tamper. Lovely looking bed.
> 
> ...


 It is clear from your videos that your shots slow down and look better the finer you grind, but even shot 3 looks a bit coarse. Just go finer and I think you will be fine.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

Doram said:


> It is clear from your videos that your shots slow down and look better the finer you grind, but even shot 3 looks a bit coarse. Just go finer and I think you will be fine.


 Seems odd to be getting this fine. The amount of coffee coming out is still really high as a ratio. Will try again tomorrow. I may be coffee'd out today...


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## 29243 (Feb 8, 2021)

I agree with @Doram. As you're going finer the shots are getting slower and looking better, just keep going finer.

Have you calibrated your niche recently, and if so did you clean the burrs first? The number doesn't really matter, but if you calibrated without cleaning you could have had some coffee particles in the burrs. This would mean they touch earlier, and hence give a coarser grind than you might expect for the same number. This doesn't actually change anything though, other than making you feel like you're going too fine.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

BenH said:


> I agree with @Doram. As you're going finer the shots are getting slower and looking better, just keep going finer.
> 
> Have you calibrated your niche recently, and if so did you clean the burrs first? The number doesn't really matter, but if you calibrated without cleaning you could have had some coffee particles in the burrs. This would mean they touch earlier, and hence give a coarser grind than you might expect for the same number. This doesn't actually change anything though, other than making you feel like you're going too fine.


 Yep, cleaned and calibrated. Oddly enough the silver dot was exactly at the calibration mark afterwards.

I measured the pressure again and it was consistently high. No idea why/how it would increase again. Loosened the OPV a portion of a turn and ground finer. Shot was too long! The consistent message seems to be working. Need to use it for a few days and see how consistent it is.

Thanks for the feedback.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

I'm using setting 4.5 on my niche for a 16g dose this morning. Just use what's required. Are you using a 15g basket?

End of the day, the silvia isn't a very advanced machine, it just fires 9bar at the puck the whole time. Try using the steam wand to control pressure slightly if you want to slow down at the beginning and end.

The grind is clearly coarse by the speed the puck is saturating with a slight donut extraction. Ultimately though, how does it taste? I don't time my shots any more just adjust grind depending on over/underextracted.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

@Oy_mckoy - if I'm to place I bet, is that your coffee is stale. As simple as that. Which coffee are you using? How old is it? How's it being stored? If your Niche is on 4.5, either it's not calibrated or you are grinding far too fine. I never, ever, in three and a half years of Niche's ownership, ground coffee this fine.

also, which basket? Are you dosing the correct amount for your basket? It might be you are putting too little coffee in it.


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## newdent (Feb 20, 2021)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Oy_mckoy - if I'm to place I bet, is that your coffee is stale. As simple as that. Which coffee are you using? How old is it? How's it being stored? If your Niche is on 4.5, either it's not calibrated or you are grinding far too fine. I never, ever, in three and a half years of Niche's ownership, ground coffee this fine.
> 
> also, which basket? Are you dosing the correct amount for your basket? It might be you are putting too little coffee in it.


 He's not using 4.5 on the niche, I am. It's calibrated fine, I'm just using small doses and long, low pressure pre-infusion followed by a pressure profiled shot.

Beans 7 days old, definitely not stale. Actually 4.5 was starting to taste a little overextracted today, have adjusted to 5.5. I go for more of a ristretto.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> @Oy_mckoy - if I'm to place I bet, is that your coffee is stale. As simple as that. Which coffee are you using? How old is it? How's it being stored? If your Niche is on 4.5, either it's not calibrated or you are grinding far too fine. I never, ever, in three and a half years of Niche's ownership, ground coffee this fine.
> 
> also, which basket? Are you dosing the correct amount for your basket? It might be you are putting too little coffee in it.


 What's the finest you grind?

I'm now going finer to see if it gets within reasonable g/ml/seconds. Like @newdentmy coffee is not stale.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

newdent said:


> He's not using 4.5 on the niche, I am


 Oops. 😊 - got all mixed up! 🤣🤣🤣



Oy_mckoy said:


> What's the finest you grind


 Finest ever I've gone is 7.


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## Doram (Oct 12, 2012)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> newdent said:
> 
> 
> > He's not using 4.5 on the niche, I am
> ...


 I have been using quite a large range of numbers on the Niche to achieve similar flow from different coffees (I always make sure the grinder is clean and calibrated). Some beans are denser, and some seem 'wetter' or 'drier' so need to be ground very differently. Dose and freshness also make a difference.

What I am trying to say, @Oy_mckoy, is that I would ignore the numbers on the Niche (and whatever numbers other people are using) and let yourself be guided by what you see and taste. The videos you uploaded seemed to show very clearly that the grind is too coarse for the coffee/dose you were using, so tightening the grind is probably a good idea regardless of the numbers on your Niche.


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## Oy_mckoy (Sep 5, 2019)

Doram said:


> I have been using quite a large range of numbers on the Niche to achieve similar flow from different coffees (I always make sure the grinder is clean and calibrated). Some beans are denser, and some seem 'wetter' or 'drier' so need to be ground very differently. Dose and freshness also make a difference.
> 
> What I am trying to say, @Oy_mckoy, is that I would ignore the numbers on the Niche (and whatever numbers other people are using) and let yourself be guided by what you see and taste. The videos you uploaded seemed to show very clearly that the grind is too coarse for the coffee/dose you were using, so tightening the grind is probably a good idea regardless of the numbers on your Niche.


 Most appreciated.

It's weird to almost need the permission to do so! Not sure why my brain has got so caught up with it.

Will continue...


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