# Sage Dual Boiler issues



## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Hi all, i've not been active for a while but i do keep an eye on the forum 

since i had my sage db i've had some issues but managed to get by them and make some very nice coffee.

over all i love this machine but again after descaling it, i have run into trouble.
I have never managed to descale it properly, i always always get the valve error and it takes me 2 to 3 days to allow it to empty enough etc and complete the descale.
It looks like the steam boiler takes forever to empty yet i get good steam.

Today though after doing a descale i am not getting water our of the brew boiler 

I assume the descale has dislodged some scale, so i am attempting another descale to see if it can help.

I am pondering what to do next if i cant get the water to come out. Do i ship it off to coffee classics or drop the bomb and get a new machine ?
I am assuming for them to look at it and possibly replace the boiler it will cost £500 ish or so ?

If i go the new machine route do i get a brand new sage DB ?
I do love the machine but this has driven me nuts.

Need some help i am currently using a cafetiere and i am missing my espresso


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

As much as you love the machine and all the features it has....

You need to ask yourself: what if.... what if I buy the same machine again and yet develops another fault? £500 for a repair seems a lot of money. You are better off, IMO, going off to eBay and buy the same machine again, second hand, refurbished, and use one of them as spares.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Yeah, I'd agree, it's a great machine when it's working well, if you are mechanically minded, get one for spares and sort it out... if you aren't then it might be a push to get it fixed as s/h they are about 500.

You could also just pop the top off, remove all the descale solution manually and descale it properly without going through the descale valve btw.

Why are you needing to descale so often? Tap water?


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

i thought if i got a new machine and used bottled water it would help a lot and i would know where i am with it.

i bought the current machine from on here around 3 years ago and it had scale issues but for the money i was happy.
i have sued tap water but regularly descale even though it has been a faff.

I was tempted to take the top off and have a look (no im not mechanically minded but thought i might give it a go) but i don't have the correct screwdriver.

I have seen the video on how to descale using tubing etc, i would need to get some spaare o-rings i think and im not sure if there is other things wrong with it.

Since i got it, it has also had a continuous gargling sound. Not sure if that is normal or not and it seems to take quite a while to build the pressure to start the espresso coming out.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Slee said:


> i thought if i got a new machine and used bottled water it would help a lot


 Yes that for sure! I think the one thing that anyone on this forum would probably agree on is not to use tap water regularly (or at all!)...



Slee said:


> Since i got it, it has also had a continuous gargling sound. Not sure if that is normal or not and it seems to take quite a while to build the pressure to start the espresso coming out.


 They do gurgle yes lol, I think all coffee machines make odd sounds lol... It is possible that the machine wasn't that well looked after before and by the sounds of things, you haven't managed a through descale - quite difficult if you've been topping up the scale since with your own tap water... If you don't have the hex bit then I probably wouldn't start taking it apart tbh... they aren't difficult to do simple servicing jobs on, but it's still pressurised hot water/steam and electricity, not for complete novices.



Slee said:


> and i would know where i am with it.


 As for a new machine, if you want to spend that much, there are great alternatives to consider. I personally love the DB but it depends what you want it for - that amount of money gives you the choice of some lovely machines. And you might want to consider upgrading the Smart Grinder while you were at it...


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Kannan said:


> As for a new machine, if you want to spend that much, there are great alternatives to consider. I personally love the DB but it depends what you want it for - that amount of money gives you the choice of some lovely machines. And you might want to consider upgrading the Smart Grinder while you were at it...


 What machines would you consider ?


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

ACS Minima, Lelit Mara X etc etc (I'm no expert!) as for grinder - Niche (obvious!), Eureka Specialita (also no expert) come to mind - but I do know there are lots more choices and as many opinions as there are coffee machines! What do you drink actually? There are some obvious decision criteria and then a whole load of subjectivity that come into play...


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks i will look at the machines. I generally drink flat whites and lattes


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

It is my (admittedly limited) experience with Sage machines that when they come out the box they are capable of good coffee, and the dual boiler of great coffee. The problem for me is as they age and inevitably start to fail as all machines will you are to a greater extent than other manufacturers trapped in the their ecosystem and some of the repairs and component prices are truly silly. They use lots of proprietary bits which I believe is part of the model to extract as much cash as possible from you.

The machines suggested above are all great and will make lovely coffee. If you are interested in a Specialita then please check out our website as I believe we offer the best price in the UK. We also do Fracino espresso machines which may be of some interest to you too.

David


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Slee said:


> I generally drink flat whites and lattes


 Ahhh well definitely a modern HX or dual boiler then... and as @*BlackCatCoffee *says, you are kind of stuck in Sage's eco system, not a terrible thing, but not great for repairs and spares once out of warranty, especially if you aren't minded to repair them yourself.


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## Kannan (Mar 28, 2020)

Having thought about this, I don't know what your budget is and also not sure how fussy you are about coffee, but if you ONLY drink flat whites and lattes you definitely need a machine that can steam milk - how many a day? How much space do you have? How quickly do you need it ready? I'm guessing a couple of answers since you've owned a DB and your signature says Rancilio - my guess being, 2-4 of cups a day, enough space (grinder plus DB isn't small)... and given you don't use or have the Rancilio anymore, presumably you got fed up waiting for milk, so reasonably quickly.

So all that said from what I can see some of your options are ACS minima, Lelit Mara X, Rocket Espresso Giotto, Profitec 600 (expensive), Rocket Espresso Appartamento, Fracino Classico, La Spaziale S1 or the Sage Dual Boiler again (which I think actually might be an option). E61 group heads are known to take a while to heat up though, so you might have to use a timer switch arrangement of some sort, however they do look lovely and finding things like naked portafilters is a lot easier than for the Sage right now and HX boilers have a few quirks to get the best out of the steam/brew temps; and if your budget streches further I think there are definitely more options...

As I say I'm sure others will have more to add to that list as well as opinions about the various machines - but actually selling your old DB and getting a new one is a serious consideration, since you know it already and it sounds like it will do what you want.

*However* whatever you buy, I would definitely recommend getting at least a water filter if not an Osmio Zero and upgrade the grinder at the same time - not sure you'll get the best out of any of these machines with a Sage grinder and tap water.


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

Thanks for this it really helps.

You are right i had the Rancilio before it was a great machine but when making a few coffees it would take too long to temperature surf each time.

i make around 4 cups a day more on weekends including hot chocolates for my 2 young boys.

I will definitely start using bottled water, will have to see what i can do about the grinder depending on the machine i get etc


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

I have spoken to coffee classic who think it might just be a level sensor issue so ive sent it off today. worst case i am charged for 30 mins and sending it back. fingers crossed it is that simple then i can carry on with this machine


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## Slee (Jan 2, 2011)

It was indeed the level sensor so i now have a fully working machine again 

One question about using bottled water, do you still use the water filter in the tank ?


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