# Coffee Puck sticking to shower screen



## The Asgard

Hi Guys,

Anybody else suffer from the puck sticking to the shower screen when you remove the portafilter?

I ususally get this 50% of the time and it drives me nuts.... I'm assuming it's to do with the suction when the valve does the business?

I have tried everything to minimise the issue. Using a 18gram shot with the standard double basket with an IMS shower screen. Tried different force tamping, twisting, varied the shot weight. Doesn't make any difference really.

Any thoughts?


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## 4085

Unless you are @ajohn, then the cause is normally too much coffee in the basket, not leaving enough headroom for the addition of water. Another possible cause is that that is combined with the grind being too fine, but try reducing the weight initially


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## ajohn

dfk41 said:


> Unless you are @ajohn, then the cause is normally too much coffee in the basket, not leaving enough headroom for the addition of water. Another possible cause is that that is combined with the grind being too fine, but try reducing the weight initially


LOL.

John

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## 4085

ajohn said:


> LOL.
> 
> John
> 
> -


Glad you took it in the manner it was written!


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## Stanic

the "standard double basket" means nothing unless you specify for how many grams is it rated for, and as dfk41 mentioned, you are most likely overdosing


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## The Asgard

Interesting, I'm sure I read somewhere to use 18 grams in the double basket. Always looked OK with the top of the tamper virtually aligning just below the edge of the basket. I did try a 17 gram shot but made zero difference. Still 50/50 chance of a sticking puck.

Will have another go at reducing the weight. Extraction is perfect, with 30-35 seconds giving approx 36 gram shot. Espresso in the morning and Chemex at night so I'm always dialing the grind back in the morning. Once set gives a very consistent shot.

Cheers guys


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## Stanic

The thing is that roast level and grinder adjustment influence the amount of coffee you can pack into the basket. Dark roasts have lower density so f.ex. using the same basket, 16 grams of dark roast ground at imaginary setting of 5 will have comparable volume to 18 grams of light roast ground at imaginary setting 3.

You'll get to grips with it once you'll play more with different beans and grinder settings.


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## ajohn

If set up a certain way I most definitely find that a touch more coffee fixes it. I just leave room for the grinds to expand usually by starting a bit low and working up. It's pretty touchy though. I mostly use baskets more in the single range. 10.5g can taste noticeably different to 10.2 both at the same grinder setting. New batch of beans, new grinder, new machine. I expect to be changing grind and quantity for some time.







I thought 10.5 - higher end - was the one to work on more. Turned out it wasn't.

I've also had them stick due to under filling but only on my new machine.

As stanic mentioned grind setting and roast will alter the correct weight. Also as @dfk41 knows some dark roast are much lighter than others, monsooned malabar for instance so baskets will need a reduced weigh. As a for instance 13.4g of a dark dense sticky Sumatra bean compared with about 12.5 of monsooned at the same grinder setting. I was trying to use the same grind for both. Dark roast monsooned may vary on each batch.

John

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## Stevie

A lot of machines come with a standard 14g basket. When dosed and tamped you should have a 0.5cm or so gap from the surface of the puck to the top of the basket. Go from there. Also, its best to ignore timers on grinders and such, and use scales to be consistent with your dose.


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## The Asgard

Thanks again for the insight.

Generally speaking. I keep to the Java dark roasts for the Rocket because most drinks are milk based. Light Roasts I keep for the Chemex and drink black,

When the Coffee is tamped there is a good gap between the shower screen and top of the coffee, will easily pass the coin test. When it doesn't stick there is still a good gap when I remove the portafiler.

I certainly will have a play with the weights.

Cheers guys


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## JayMac

I had the same issue quite frequently. Also it affects taste if you run out of headspace in the basket. For me, I got rid of the basket that came with the machine, got a VST 15g, and changed my recipe to be 15g of coffee, now I almost never have the issue.


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## Dumnorix

ajohn said:


> If set up a certain way I most definitely find that a touch more coffee fixes it. I just leave room for the grinds to expand usually by starting a bit low and working up. It's pretty touchy though. I mostly use baskets more in the single range. 10.5g can taste noticeably different to 10.2 both at the same grinder setting. New batch of beans, new grinder, new machine. I expect to be changing grind and quantity for some time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought 10.5 - higher end - was the one to work on more. Turned out it wasn't.
> 
> I've also had them stick due to under filling but only on my new machine.
> 
> As stanic mentioned grind setting and roast will alter the correct weight. Also as @dfk41 knows some dark roast are much lighter than others, monsooned malabar for instance so baskets will need a reduced weigh. As a for instance 13.4g of a dark dense sticky Sumatra bean compared with about 12.5 of monsooned at the same grinder setting. I was trying to use the same grind for both. Dark roast monsooned may vary on each batch.
> 
> John
> 
> -


I started off dosing 18g (light roast) in my DB, and had the puck stick a few times. Then the white glove guy came and suggested dosing 20g, since when the puck has no longer stuck. I did coarsen the grind obviously to compensate for more coffee being in the basket- maybe that made the difference? I am now using Coffee Compass Mystery 8 (thanks Dave for the recommendation- I really like it!) and am dosing closer to 18g again but still no sticking pucks.


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## The Asgard

Drop the weight with a good cm clearance and still got a sticking puck. Went the other way to 19 grams and got another, grrrrrr.


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## ajohn

I just tried a lighter weight. I had worked up to over 10.5g decided too high and just did a shot with 9.9g. Grind fine enough to give a ratio of 1 to 1.3 over 30 sec. Puck stuck and was pretty wet but not too bad. I got it out by forcing the portafilter past 90 degrees and waggling it about. The puck had just expanded to hit the shower screen in the central region. Crap very weak drink. Nothing to do with the ratio or grind as I know that 10.3 can produce a decent shot - for me anyway with a marginally coarser grind - couple of degrees or so on the Mazzer lever. In both cases I extended the time to get 1 to 2 but will probably finish up going higher than that as it suites the bean and me. That will be done by changing time.








I need to rephrase what I do. LOL. I haven't bothered looking at how much the grinds expand before. What I am doing in practice is allowing expansion to compress the grinds a bit so depth to the puck hardly changes after a shot is pulled. This comes from drinking several kg of MM and trying all of the alternatives and finding this works best. I get nice tight dry pucks just like Starbucks etc get. So weight in for me is the amount where that just happens. Too much and the puck is hard to knock out and strength can also drop off.

I'm using a typical E61 7g single basket. The difference is weight is mostly down to shower screen projection on the DB compared with a Fracino. I know that it wont hold over much over 8g on a Fracino. If I don't work the way I do I see signs of channelling. As some people mention singles are an abortion and have rules all of their own.







So in my case what could be seen as slight overfilling helps ensure there is the same pressure all over the top of the puck.

Next job - remove the shower screen and clean up followed by a couple of water only back flushes as all sort of junk will have gone through the 3 way.

My last attempt with the double was 18.8g of a Lidl wooden barrel bean that doesn't taste too bad. Some one else drinks it anyway. Sage DB double though - a lot more than a Fracino 14g double could hold. I'd guess it's more like a triple really. The small basket size Sage machine doubles wouldn't hold that much either







as some one found out a couple of days ago. Same approach as I use on singles. I'd made a note on the barrel try 18.8g. I will have upped the amount if I see a wavey top.

John

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## lee1980

I only ever had mine stick when i left handle on with a puck dryin out over a few hours, usually its opposite to wet, some times a tiny puddle some times more, now and then get it perfect well what i think is, when it comes it on clean puck and leaves hardly any residue in basket.

I am using same beans Italian job from Rave, but still have to adjust grind as each time age of beans vary etc.


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## The Asgard

Just thought I would update you guys. I have now sorted out the problem and it wasn't due to any of the above.

The issue was due to high suction which was caused by a mix up of the springs in the group after cleaning. I had noticed for a while that the squirt at the end seemed quite powerful and it was literally sucking the puck out of the portafilter.


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## lee1980

Good to know got sorted phew!


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## JayMac

Wow, nice you found that one. Definitely a new one to me!

Sounds like a good story for the Muppetry thread, at lease for whoever cleaned it!


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## ajohn

The fix I mentioned was on a Sage Barista Express. I'm using their Dual Boiler now and things in this respect aren't the same. Even a low fill can stick. High ones too now I am using a 12g E61 basket. It's a bit irksome when I try a new bean as it seems to take a while to sort a decent fill out as MM is a pretty light bean compared with many other beans.

I am wondering if it's down to the 3 way.

John

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## The Asgard

JayMac said:


> Wow, nice you found that one. Definitely a new one to me!
> 
> Sounds like a good story for the Muppetry thread, at lease for whoever cleaned it!


That would probably be me, LOL. Just glad its all fixed now, it was driving me nuts.


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## Commie

This isn't about vacuum or any other nonsense.

check your inner shower screen you will find it is cracked. expands out against the puck so you can't get it out until it cools and contracts.

you can get a new one from BRG Appliances for around £2.50 or any Sage parts supplier


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