# Advice on making notes to record your experiences of different beans?



## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

As some background I have challenged myself to try more of a range of coffees and roasts and try to work out what I actually prefer.

To this point, I tend to have guessed at my choices of beans, favouring light to mid roast fruitier bean from different roasters, but I have noticed I miss the enjoyable thicker texture of a slightly longer roast. I want to try to come to a more educated decision as to what I like.

I have ordered 250g of almost every bean Rave sell and plan to vac pack small batches and mix it up over the next few weeks.

I tend to only brew as espresso. I plan to record:

Roaster

Bean origin

roast profile

processing method

tasting notes

grinder setting

brew ratio

my comments.

Firstly, are there any other factors people record that I should consider?

Secondly, how do you make notes? In the first instance I'm going to print the web pages for each and scribble notes, but that isn't workable long term and obviously it would would be better if the notes were "searchable", so some sort of iPhone app would be perfect i was thinking - any suggestions?

Thanks all.


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## Mouzone (Dec 9, 2017)

rob177palmer said:


> As some background I have challenged myself to try more of a range of coffees and roasts and try to work out what I actually prefer.
> 
> To this point, I tend to have guessed at my choices of beans, favouring light to mid roast fruitier bean from different roasters, but I have noticed I miss the enjoyable thicker texture of a slightly longer roast. I want to try to come to a more educated decision as to what I like.
> 
> ...


Regarding your second point:

I had a crack with Excel, my pros/cons:

+ if data is captured properly, you can report / analyse it quite well

+ compatible with most devices (phone/tablet/pc)

+ no risks of splattering coffee all over your pristine notebook

+ can do some of the brew ratio calculation for you if you set up simple formula and weigh (and capture) input / output

- not very intuitive to use on handhelds (Samsung S8 / iPad for me)

- not very effective for Word processing (formatting is restricted and input can be a bit clumsy)

- no physical record to showcase - all digitalised

A standard spreadsheet looks a bit dull but they can quite easily be spruced up to look a bit nicer (like an app).

I'd be interested if there are any other CFUK members using any other apps.

Hope you find something that works for you


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I'd add in a basic, overall score of how much you enjoyed each shot. Roaster, process, roast profile can all be added in the same broad description field, otherwise you are likely to end up with too many fields & an unwieldy record. The ability to sort is essential..

Also add in shot time.

Maybe record whether tasting notes were met? These may only be relevant for a current crop & next time that coffee appears the notes may have changed, they can change during the run of one crop - so what they actually say will float.

I use XL


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Interesting that you both use excel. I could set up on Office 365 so would be easily available everywhere. I'll have to check how that could work.

I am very proficient on excel but cant help feeling that this task calls for a database system, which I haven't used often. I'll do some googling today for ideas but there must be people adopting a similar approach for wine or other more common hobbies.

Thanks both for your suggestions on data to record. And here's hoping someone will chip in soon with the perfect solution !


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Catador Cupping seems to be a (quite expensive) app that replicates SCAA scoresheets, but that's still not quite right for me - I'm not focusing on cupping and tasting notes, more wider comments and notes to remind me at a later date.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I found this:

http:// Angels' Cup by Angels' Take Inc.https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/angels-cup/id968069264?mt=8


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

rob177palmer said:


> As some background I have challenged myself to try more of a range of coffees and roasts and try to work out what I actually prefer.
> 
> To this point, I tend to have guessed at my choices of beans, favouring light to mid roast fruitier bean from different roasters, but I have noticed I miss the enjoyable thicker texture of a slightly longer roast. I want to try to come to a more educated decision as to what I like.
> 
> ...


One thing I would also be inclined to do so the details you are intending to apply are instantly associated with that brand or supplier is to take a photo of the front and rear of the packet the beans came in and even the beans for colour, careful to always use the same light source for bean colour.

Jon.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

xpresso said:


> One thing I would also be inclined to do so the details you are intending to apply are instantly associated with that brand or supplier is to take a photo of the front and rear of the packet the beans came in and even the beans for colour, careful to always use the same light source for bean colour.
> 
> Jon.


Beans, roast level & colour will change with virtually every order from the same supplier. Colour isn't a very good guide to preference either.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I've been playing with the Angels' Cup app - going to give it full thumbs up from my first use.

It has a very visual interface to describe your notes and covers almost everything I would want to add.

It fully records your tasting notes and is searchable for your past records.

You can compare your tasting notes side by side with the roaster's own and from the community (I haven't tried this yet but I like the idea).

Sadly can't store a photo of the package but otherwise this seems excellent.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

+1 on the above especially if unable to measure colour objectively using a Tonino or similar. I have been measuring the colour profile of not just own roasted but bought in beans / LSOL etc and has been interesting to note the number / level of roast having more of a direct impact on grind fine / coarse ness than on any other input such as taste / flavours being picked up (this will be more origin / process based)

What measuring (grind) colour does is remove the "I think it's medium, you think its light" (or vice versa) argument and allow a standardised (assuming other Tonino user) approach.

For example, the current Nicargauan 4 pack from HasBean all measured on Tonino at between 124 and 127 or "Cinnamon" but all had subtle differences as from different farms (2 from Finca Limoncello, 1 each from La Escondida / Las Delicias), 4 different beans( Longberry, Pacamara, Catui, Caturra) and 2 differing processes (2 washed, 2 pulped natural)

Am sure have seen a couple of pre existing apps that may suit your requirement to record or failing that what about the little notebook called 30 coffees or similar? Sounds like you are going to be super caffeinated for a while









John


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

@johnealey - 33 Cups is Coffee? That looks to be the perfect written solution. Hadn't seen that before - thanks!


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Welcome Rob, just been trying to find the copy was given as a present a while back. Thought it was a bit, well, tosh at first look but then realised actually quite handy especially when out and about ( causes the odd raised eyebrow from knowing barista







)

John


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Beans, roast level & colour will change with virtually every order from the same supplier. Colour isn't a very good guide to preference either.


All the more reason to record the colour against the same packet, you could then identify if one supply changes either slightly or markably.

Jon.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

I live in Excel, so that's what I use together with Word. I have a big Word file on all aspects of coffee - machines, modifications, tutorials, beans, geography etc. There I keep all my coffee reviews. I don't score the beans accurately yet (like out of 10 or 100) or describe flavours in conventional tasting language, because my technique isn't advanced enough to be reliable but I do describe the coffees.

In Excel I have a large spreadsheet called 'Diet' for everything about food and drink. I have one sheet for everything coffee - machine specs and also bean notes. These give the seller, bean, origin, rating, quantity, price, web address. The rating goes NR (not recommended), Y-, Y, Y+, YY. So basically a 5 point scale. I only drink decaf, so I list all the commonly available beans. This is currently a list of 53 decafs with ratings for the ones I've tried.

I also have another sheet called "shots" where I record a representative number of the shots I pull. I take the best shots and list them separately with averages so I can see what works. The fields are:

date, coffee, double/single basket, time of pour in secs, grams in, grams out, ratio, ml of milk, ratio of coffee to milk, grinder setting, temperature of water (this is an estimate based on amount of steam in a quick purge), and any other notes like "try this grind setting" or "temperature over/under ideal". Plus a very brief description of how good the coffee/shot was.

It's all a bit nerdy, but this is a nerdy thread, right? I'm still very much learning skills so I wanted to record everything I did. Analysing the information has been really helpful and has given me a much better idea of what works for me. As time goes on I make less entries - just for new coffees to look at grind settings, pour in secs and results. It's a lot of information but I'm a research junkie.

I also have quite a lot of pictures under Pictures > Coffee. I have a lot of pictures under > Grinders because grinders fascinate me. All their specifications are in my Excel file. And a lot of pictures under > Gaggia showing all kinds of mods I might carry out one day, interiors of machines etc.


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## johnnyka7 (Mar 5, 2018)

I ordered the following coffee log notebook yesterday from Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1974549704/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Personally, I prefer a notebook instead of Excel, since it is easier to take notes and don't have to turn on the laptop every morning before work (I have a very old laptop and it takes longer to turn on than the espresso machine to heat up







)


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

johnnyka7 said:


> I ordered the following coffee log notebook yesterday from Amazon
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1974549704/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> ...


If you are quick off the mark there's one listed as USED at £4.80 ...... Problem being whoever used it might not have the same taste's







.

Jon.


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## johnnyka7 (Mar 5, 2018)

xpresso said:


> If you are quick off the mark there's one listed as USED at £4.80 ...... Problem being whoever used it might not have the same taste's
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha, I bought actually a new one for 4.27

1 Used from £4.803 New from £4.27


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm also going to try FileMaker Go (apparently the new version of Bento) to see if I can design a database that will do exactly what I need.

As above - AngelsCup seems almost perfect for what I / we need, but I don't like the fact I am not holding the data I am inputting.

EDIT: scrap that idea - FileMaker is well above my pay grade!!


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## christos_geo (Feb 9, 2016)

Check if you can get this app called coffee journal. Pretty simple and I think it was free. Lets you export to excel if needed.

Edit: now called Flavordex Tasting Journal.

Turns out I have an older version no longer available to download


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

I have been following this thread with interest and have just downloaded the Flavordex Tasting Journal app onto my Windows phone. It looks brilliant!


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Hmm, I spent the day avoiding my real job and testing out different database apps!

I had settled on Evernote and have designed myself a full tasting notes table to fill in for each bean.....seems like I maybe should have been doing my job instead and just waiting for recommendations!!


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Dumnorix said:


> I have been following this thread with interest and have just downloaded the Flavordex Tasting Journal app onto my Windows phone. It looks brilliant!


Not available on iPhone


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Hang on @christos_geo you might have just cracked it!!

Found an iOS tasting journal app! Let's see

EDIT - this is looking like an excellent solution!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

I cannot see how this can really work. There are simply too many variables in coffee making. Technically, unless every single shot is prepared in the same way, and it might take a long time to work out a particular beans foibles, then the data will be corrupted. I would simply use the knowledge you have built up to prepare a shot properly then trust your taste buds.....I make 2 sorts of coffee, sink or drink


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## christos_geo (Feb 9, 2016)

Rob, @dfk41 does have a point. I actually only use the journal app to make a note of the coffees I've bought and enjoyed. What I actually do for most bags is log my dialing in process which looks something more like this (screenshot). Overkill but I enjoy it. I then transfer to an Excel sheet and highlight the one that gave me the tastiest espresso


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I'm planning on collecting a decent amount of data (because why not) but only really making one entry for each coffee describing how much I enjoyed it, and what ratio I found best. That way when I go back to a coffee after a while, i have an idea where to start.

My thoughts were to identify characteristics and roast profiles that I enjoy most.

I have been exclusively drinking light to medium roasts so have specifically bought a couple of darks for a change.

I wanted to start from scratch and just check that I have been looking for the right tasting notes and origins when I am buying beans.

Finding the right recording tool just turned out to be something interesting to distract me from work on a quiet day in the office!


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

This app is brilliant - TasteBuddy Tasting Journal

http:// TasteBuddy - Tasting Journal by Semicomma LLChttps://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/tastebuddy-tasting-journal/id1271020897?mt=8

Incredibly easy to design your own input forms and change layouts. You can record headline facts on the bean, then individual tasting notes for each tasting session.

As an example, my summary page for a bean is:



















Then the data from a tasting is laid out and summarised within the bean record:



















(Yes I know my grind setting is massively wrong - worked perfectly yesterday and now miles out without any adjustment - damned humidity / temperature / daily variations!!)

You get the idea


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> I cannot see how this can really work. There are simply too many variables in coffee making. Technically, unless every single shot is prepared in the same way, and it might take a long time to work out a particular beans foibles, then the data will be corrupted. I would simply use the knowledge you have built up to prepare a shot properly then trust your taste buds.....I make 2 sorts of coffee, sink or drink


There aren't that many variables, unless you are conducting a load of experiments (fun sometimes, but day to day it's nice to actually relax, make & enjoy the drinks).

Coffee itself is the biggest variable - you can't fix problems introduced before brewing, we're making small drinks one by one not commercial scale blended for consistency product, we actually expect a new coffee to taste different to the last.

Then grind setting, then brew ratio, then maybe dose adjustment. For brewed it's the coffee, then grind if you feel like it.

You can change whatever parameters you want, but if you change everything every time that you get a new coffee, then you're becoming the biggest variable.

If you don't keep a record it can quickly look like the variables are insurmountable.


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## KTD (Dec 28, 2017)

Nice idea, and looks good. I thought about doing this in the past but personally I find especially with darker roasts the coffee is still changing even from week 2 after roasting and therefore what was a little harsh calms down, you would be constantly rejigging data. I tend to finish a bag and stick it on a buy again list as I'm too lazy to do anything else


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

KTD said:


> I tend to finish a bag and stick it on a buy again list as I'm too lazy to do anything else


Essentially that is what I want to understand - what to buy again and what not to - I am just hoping to qualify "why" - ie do I prefer Tanzania to Columbia (so far, yes!) is natural processing a common theme in what I like, etc.

Who know - possibly a fad and will drop off my radar in a month, but at least I can always refer back if I am lost, and I now know to buy Tanzania AAA from Rave over their Honduras (what I previously thought was my favourite)


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

As a newbie with a mind like a sieve, I think this could really help me

Couldn't find tastebuddy on Android, but have downloaded flavour dex


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

Update 1: the bean stash has arrived and is rested.

First up was Italian Job - as expected, I strongly dislike this as espresso - notes of burnt sausages to my tastebuds. Definitely a strong caffeine kick though!

Does emulate a high street chain flavour in milk tho so I can definitely see why they have such a strong following.

I have used my new note taking system to record not to buy these beans ever again


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

rob177palmer said:


> Update 1: the bean stash has arrived and is rested.
> 
> First up was Italian Job - as expected, I strongly dislike this as espresso - notes of burnt sausages to my tastebuds. Definitely a strong caffeine kick though!
> 
> ...


They spelled burnt sausages wrong on the pack 

Doesn't this suggest you might have to change something in the way you brew?


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

MWJB said:


> They spelled burnt sausages wrong on the pack
> 
> Doesn't this suggest you might have to change something in the way you brew?


Ha - yes they did!

Not sure I need to change anything just yet, my aim is as to review a wide range of origins and roast profiles and make notes to properly review and make sure I am buying the right beans for me.

Rave's tasting notes of chocolate and wallnut are right, but the freshly ground beans do have an unpleasant "black bits from over cooked sausages" aroma which persists when pulled on the lever.

I could tell immediately on opening the bag it wasn't for me - this is definitely aimed for a milk drinker, but that was my aim with this - be certain of what I personally do and don't like

I am very excited about the dark roast Ethiopian Gedeb though - that is totally outside my usual range but the tasting notes sound exciting and the aroma is fantastic.

I might move to the Gedeb tomorrow - now I can see why I need a proper single dosing grinder....where is that brand new Cornish Monolith....!!?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

rob177palmer said:


> This app is brilliant - TasteBuddy Tasting Journal
> 
> http:// TasteBuddy - Tasting Journal by Semicomma LLChttps://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/tastebuddy-tasting-journal/id1271020897?mt=8
> 
> ...


Great app, thanks for the tip.

Think I'm gonna copy some of your fields too 

Much better than palate app that I've been using


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> Think I'm gonna copy some of your fields too


I've finessed my summary page for each bean and it's pretty good for what I need I think.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

So a few weeks on and I am really starting to see the benefits of this recording system.

I have been able to quickly and easily take notes as I go, and compare tastings / enjoyment to other beans and previous tastings of the same beans.

I have also been able to make much more informed choices as to what beans to buy, by referring back to my enjoyment notes from similar origins and tasting notes. I am now at the point of the last 6 beans have all been somewhere between "enjoyable" and "very enjoyable", which is a far cry from the previous hit and miss approach to my purchases.

The TasteBuddy app has been brilliant and very stable. After logging about 6 beans you need to purchase the app (£0.99 as I recall) to keep building the library. It is easy to alter the data headings recorded for each bean, and the changes pull through to the old listings. Really impressed and it does everything I would want. Highly recommended.


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

Shame its not on Android


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## Dr Forinor (Jul 30, 2018)

rob177palmer said:


> I've finessed my summary page for each bean and it's pretty good for what I need I think.


Has anyone been able to find something as polished as this, for Android?


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## xpresso (Jan 16, 2018)

MWJB said:


> Beans, roast level & colour will change with virtually every order from the same supplier. Colour isn't a very good guide to preference either.


So does that suggest that 'Named' roasts are highly unlikely to have the same taste/notes, when you re-order ?.

Jon.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

xpresso said:


> So does that suggest that 'Named' roasts are highly unlikely to have the same taste/notes, when you re-order ?.
> 
> Jon.


Depends how often you order & how often the roaster QC's. I've seen printed taste notes on a bag evolve for a crop, over weeks. The next year that the same crop becomes available notes are also likely to change.

Buying a few bags in quick succession, with a plentiful supply might not change much if the roaster's happy with it.


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## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

rob177palmer said:


> So a few weeks on and I am really starting to see the benefits of this recording system.
> 
> I have been able to quickly and easily take notes as I go, and compare tastings / enjoyment to other beans and previous tastings of the same beans.
> 
> ...


Hi Rob,

Just found this app and started using the free version. It's absolutely amazing. Exactly what I want.

Can I ask - did you have any issues upgrading to the full version? Bugs, etc?

It looks like the app has been developed and then left. It's a shame as it could be used for lots of personalised record making.


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## rob177palmer (Feb 14, 2017)

I agree - easy to see how you could use it for many things.

I like that the search tool allows you to quickly narrow down to what you are looking for (eg, here, do I like Rwandan (yes!) beans, do I like beans with lime notes (not usually...!))

This has been almost faultless from the start. Zero issues upgrading to the licence and I recall was essential once I had designed the database and recorded more than 3 entries.

It has probably crashed out on me less than 5 times in the year, and I use an old iPhone6, so would expect o be more stable with a more modern phone.

Glad you like it. I would still fully recommend the app and the process as a learning exercise.


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## Les996 (Jan 8, 2019)

richwade80 said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> Just found this app and started using the free version. It's absolutely amazing. Exactly what I want.
> 
> ...


Rob very kindly put me in the direction of this app a few days ago, it really is great how you can tailor to needs.

I run it on iPhone X and yes the upgrade is required with no problems at all. It is a shame the updates have been dormant for 9 months now but hopefully it keeps going. I also have on iPad but because no login it doesn't transfer over which is a bit of a shame. Still very much worth it for me


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## jj-x-ray (Dec 31, 2017)

I still use flavordex which is solid enough for my needs.


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