# Cafe Nero; Best espresso this side of Milan



## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Wonder if Jay Rayner gave them that quote... ? ;-) Went to a cafe nero for the first time today to meet friends... and saw the words; "the best espresso this side of Milan" written on the baristas shirt... Thought that was quite a claim to make so ordered a coffee...

First thing i noticed was he didnt tamp it, do they use pressurised baskets??? Then he hit the button and ran off upstairs.. then a dark black shot poured out and no sign of crema until last minute, no gorgeous creamy brown guinness effect... Nuffin... Then he tipped half the shot in my milk and said £2:20 please.. I was prepared to argue it was not infact the best espresso this side of milan, but chose to suck it up like a real man.... my wife called me a coffee snob and we sat down, tasted really bitter i had to put like 5x sachets of sugar in to combat the bitterness...... However, nice to know that i can now pick out a bad coffee, thats a real step forward for me, 6 months ago i would of thought it was lovely..

I wonder why they dont tamp? I saw costa worker do this as well...


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Rookie sh*t even entering the place mate...

We all know they lie and most of the public fall for it, same as Maccy D's lovely pictures showing us how lovely the mc fatty fat fat burger will look if you hand over your cash, and we know how that ends up looking.

As the last few months have gone on i have never once consumed a coffee from anywhere apart from home or work, i cant even have a coffee at other peoples homes now..


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Haha that's nothing. Here in Spain I told a new cafe owner that if they were going to sell coffee as bad as the one they gave me they'd be better saving the money on the lekkie, sell the machine and grinder and just serve instant! They'd spent a fortune on buying this cafe but when i asked for a cortado for me and a cappuccino for the wife the lady behind the counter just looked blankly at me an in a slightly confused state said she wasn't sure what all the different drinks were or how to do them but "I can do you a coffee with a bit of milk in it"

I knew then my fate was sealed

You can only just despair sometimes


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Haha yeah, you know thats bad when they dont know what a cortado or a cappuccino is...

I tried to avoid it, like literally all the good coffee shops were closed today and our friends wanted to meet us there... Then i saw the "best espresso this side of milan" line and had to take the risk.... Can make so much nicer on my little set up and im a beginner... Its crazy!!


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Nero is by a long long way the worst of the chains. The last time I ever set foot in one was in Preston last year, and my pycho ex decided she wanted a hot chocolate and they were the nearest it was in there we had to go, the so called barista ( at least that was what his badge said he was) took a portafilter, complete with spent puck out of the group, dumped the puck and without even wiping the portafilter out, or flushing the grouphead, proceeded to dose coffee in from the grinder, where it had been sitting in the doser for god knows how long, didn't even tamp it and put it back in the same dirty group and pulled the shot, it was obvious from the speed the water ran through that it was going to be a dire shot. So when he had pulled it and reheated some previously steamed milk and assembled my drink I refused to accept it, as we hadn't yet paid we just left the place then.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Charlie, you are a man after my own heart. Well done that man there!


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Good man Charlie, thats exactly what i should of done....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

What on earth do expect - it was Preston after all!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Where would the beans have placed on the colour chart I wonder ....


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Does the colour chart have an extension to reflect the amount of sheen/oil on the beans too??


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

There's an interesting point here - I'm sure many of us have had similar experiences where we go against our better judgement and have a chain coffee. We know its going to be bad, but we still do it. When the inevitable happens (i.e. you receive a disgusting drink), how many of you actually take it back or even pass comment that it wasn't up to your expectations? I have to admit I've never said anything. I'm just trying to think why, and I think it comes down to:

1. I'm English, and the English don't complain!

2. My expectations were so low that they actually succeeded in meeting them.

3. Quite often (e.g. recently at John Lewis), you can just tell that the people making the coffee haven't a clue or even an interest in doing it well. It would be like talking to a brick wall.

However, having said all that I still think that you can't whinge unless you're willing to tell them what's wrong









Maybe next time... oh god, I hope there isn't a next time!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

One place - not a chain - boasted the best coffee in town. It wasn't so I told them and asked for my money back which I got.


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## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Does the colour chart have an extension to reflect the amount of sheen/oil on the beans too??


Yeah it's filed under 'fire risk'


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

There's an interesting (to my mind) section in the Blue Bottle book on espresso in Italy. It talks about the decline in the quality of Italian coffee because the cost of a coffee is (or was) regulated, espresso machines are provided and serviced by the large roasters, and the majority of customer orders during the day are a single espresso (so a cafe has to sell a lot in a day plus a lot of cocktails at night). But - the section goes on - in Italy - 'there is near-universal adequacy. At almost any cafe in Italy you can rest assured that the coffee will be at worst not bad, and at best pretty darn good.' My own coffee drinking experience is still limited and certainly limited when it comes to drinking espressi in Italy. If anything good were to come of this thread, the countless other activities of forum members, the efforts of independent roasters and cafes, and the Jay Rayner article it would be a 'near-universal' appreciation in the UK of what constitutes good coffee (i.e., there is a range of standards) and a 'near-universal' stance that it's not acceptable to serve anything that is substandard.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

Phil104 said:


> There's an interesting (to my mind) section in the Blue Bottle book on espresso in Italy. It talks about the decline in the quality of Italian coffee because the cost of a coffee is (or was) regulated, espresso machines are provided and serviced by the large roasters, and the majority of customer orders during the day are a single espresso (so a cafe has to sell a lot in a day plus a lot of cocktails at night). But - the section goes on - in Italy - 'there is near-universal adequacy. At almost any cafe in Italy you can rest assured that the coffee will be at worst not bad, and at best pretty darn good.' My own coffee drinking experience is still limited and certainly limited when it comes to drinking espressi in Italy. If anything good were to come of this thread, the countless other activities of forum members, the efforts of independent roasters and cafes, and the Jay Rayner article it would be a 'near-universal' appreciation in the UK of what constitutes good coffee (i.e., there is a range of standards) and a 'near-universal' stance that it's not acceptable to serve anything that is substandard.


Agreed... Also worrying as we are going to lake como later in the summer and i am really looking forward to drinking the coffee... Maybe not so much now.. :-(


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

fluffles said:


> There's an interesting point here - I'm sure many of us have had similar experiences where we go against our better judgement and have a chain coffee. We know its going to be bad, but we still do it. When the inevitable happens (i.e. you receive a disgusting drink), how many of you actually take it back or even pass comment that it wasn't up to your expectations? I have to admit I've never said anything. I'm just trying to think why, and I think it comes down to:
> 
> 1. I'm English, and the English don't complain!
> 
> ...


haha yeah, i never complain as im far to polite, even if asked i would say "oh its lovely thanks" There is a little deli where i live that actually buy half decent beans, i was speaking to a guy who happens to be a judge at UKBC and he could not believe how bad they made the coffee taste... He said she placed the portafilter on to the machine and talked for 55 seconds until she pressed the button to extract... 55 seconds!!! Beans are important but the skills of the barista are equally as important... I was just pleased with myself that i could taste the badness, shows that im doing it something right at home.


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## Wando64 (Feb 28, 2011)

When I go to a high street chain coffee place it know exactly why I am there. A comfy chair and internet access. Usually I am not disappointed. The price of using the facilities comes with a free coffee. I don't expect much of it.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

England invented Football, Rugby and Cricket... Look at us now.

Relevance to Italy/Coffee.


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## Taylor The Latte Boy (Dec 9, 2013)

"Best espresso this side of Milan", never heard of a joke before?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> England invented Football, Rugby and Cricket... Look at us now.


.....and the jet engine. Arguably the first computer too.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

And who can forget the Rubiks cube!!

Jokes!


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Nero are a joke... I have heard colleagues claim its their favorite coffee chain and I can only think that it must just be as effect of marketing. They appear to have the lowest level of standards from any of the chains. Starbucks have chosen to use B2C machines to eliminate the need for training to produce what they call a coffee, but at the very least they get a consistently bad drink across their chains. Costa seems to produce a drink which isn't so acrid and bitter that I'll get one if its the only choice... but Nero... Nero I wouldn't go near if I was about to crash my car because I was so tired and the only thing that would save my life was their coffee... disgusting.


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## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

D_Evans said:


> Nero are a joke... I have heard colleagues claim its their favorite coffee chain and I can only think that it must just be as effect of marketing. They appear to have the lowest level of standards from any of the chains. Starbucks have chosen to use B2C machines to eliminate the need for training to produce what they call a coffee, but at the very least they get a consistently bad drink across their chains. Costa seems to produce a drink which isn't so acrid and bitter that I'll get one if its the only choice... but Nero... Nero I wouldn't go near if I was about to crash my car because I was so tired and the only thing that would save my life was their coffee... disgusting.


Agree that Costa is the best of a bad bunch, their Cortado is at least drinkable. My sister knows Maxwell Colonna and apparently he told her that Starbucks recently change their beans and that they actually use the best beans of all the chains (that's probably damning them with feint praise to be fair). However, it doesn't account for what they do with them I guess.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Last time I visited a Starbucks - they were touting a guest single estate bean for espresso. Tried it - not very good but better than their house espresso blend.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Last time I visited a Starbucks - they were touting a guest single estate bean for espresso. Tried it - not very good but better than their house espresso blend.


Bitumen and gravel would taste better brewed in any machine compared to their house charcoal


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

This continues to beg the question, 'Why ever go into one of the chains or anywhere that insults the craft?'. Even for free wifi, I'd sooner buy a cup of tea.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Phil104 said:


> This continues to beg the question, 'Why ever go into one of the chains or anywhere that insults the craft?'. Even for free wifi, I'd sooner buy a cup of tea.


For me, there are a myriad of reasons.

Motorway services is the prime one, there is no choice. Also I might be with a group of friends and don't want to drag them all round the block when they are all perfectly happy with the high street costa (its bad enough refusing to go into Nero or Starbucks). I might be in a new town and risking an independent who might be good but might be awful is just not worth the wasted time and effort when I can just be in and out of a Costa and get an ok drink.

If I'm by myself and I know of a good independant I wouldn't dream of going to the chains, and I'll do my best to take my mates to the good places when I can. But sometimes the simplest and most convenient choice is a chain.


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

The other outfit I refuse point blank to give my custom too is Ritazza, they come a very very close second to Nero in the worst chain stakes.


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> For me, there are a myriad of reasons.
> 
> Motorway services is the prime one, there is no choice. Also I might be with a group of friends and don't want to drag them all round the block when they are all perfectly happy with the high street costa (its bad enough refusing to go into Nero or Starbucks). I might be in a new town and risking an independent who might be good but might be awful is just not worth the wasted time and effort when I can just be in and out of a Costa and get an ok drink.
> 
> If I'm by myself and I know of a good independant I wouldn't dream of going to the chains, and I'll do my best to take my mates to the good places when I can. But sometimes the simplest and most convenient choice is a chain.


 Okay - I wouldn't but that's not to deny anyone a choice. I'd go back to my earlier point about trying to raise standards generally.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

Phil104 said:


> Okay - I wouldn't but that's not to deny anyone a choice. I'd go back to my earlier point about trying to raise standards generally.


Whilst it would be nice, I cant help but think that would hinge on the general public being vastly more educated about what constitutes a good coffee than they are. Brand power and convenience are incredibly powerful tools, its not just coffee; independants of all varieties often outclass their chain counterparts, but the sad fact is that most people dont care enough for any real difference to ever be made.

Having said that, it has been said above that Costa are the best of a bad bunch, which I agree with. They are also the most successful in the UK, I would hope that has something to do with their coffee being 'better' than their competition. (I wouldn't include independents as their competition.)


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## Phil104 (Apr 15, 2014)

My hope that would be that over time and if the independents remain strong and grow, there will be a trickle down effect as more people discern the difference. We play our part in that - I am aware that my own emerging interest in and enthusiasm for drinking and making espresso is infectious.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

D_Evans said:


> For me, there are a myriad of reasons.
> 
> Motorway services is the prime one, there is no choice. Also I might be with a group of friends and don't want to drag them all round the block when they are all perfectly happy with the high street costa (its bad enough refusing to go into Nero or Starbucks). I might be in a new town and risking an independent who might be good but might be awful is just not worth the wasted time and effort when I can just be in and out of a Costa and get an ok drink.
> 
> If I'm by myself and I know of a good independant I wouldn't dream of going to the chains, and I'll do my best to take my mates to the good places when I can. But sometimes the simplest and most convenient choice is a chain.


Completely agree.... I searched 4 of my usual independents all which serve fantastic coffee but were ALL closed on sunday before i gave up and we met at cafe nero.... Sometimes chains are all thats open :-(


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Wando64 said:


> When I go to a high street chain coffee place it know exactly why I am there. A comfy chair and internet access. Usually I am not disappointed. The price of using the facilities comes with a free coffee. I don't expect much of it.


This.

13 blah, have a pic


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Scotford said:


> This.
> 
> 13 blah, have a pic


Erm - Does drinking that produce a intense, manic almost psychotic stare?

Only asking like!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I wouldn't know. I found it in my flat.


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Scotford said:


> I wouldn't know. I found it in my flat.


Fair enough........... Must be something else! ;-)


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

The manic, almost psychotic stare comes with years of abusing Deathwish coffee!


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Has anyone ever mentioned you look like Stevie Gerrard...... a calm and gentlemanly Stevie Gerrard obviously!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Drewster said:


> Has anyone ever mentioned you look like Stevie Gerrard...... a calm and gentlemanly Stevie Gerrard obviously!


Get a room


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## Drewster (Dec 1, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Get a room


Nah! He is a wild eyed psycho....... Oh and a bloke!

Oh and butt fugly!


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## cold war kid (Mar 12, 2010)

Scotford said:


> This.
> 
> 13 blah, have a pic


Ha, ha. My wife drinks that shit. With coffee mate and artificial sweetener.

Some people's palates just aren't as sophisticated as others. I've got a mate who practically lives off fish finger butties and he's 40. It takes all sorts I suppose.

I think when people say (x) is their favourite coffeeshop, it means that they've tried the grand total of the 3 main players and (x) is the favourite of the 3.

I have to admit that I just don't get Nero though. Even back in the days before I realised what good coffee could be like I knew that place was rubbish.

Really rubbish.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Drewster said:


> Nah! He is a wild eyed psycho....... Oh and a bloke!
> 
> Oh and butt fugly!


Oi! Less of the fugly.

I AM a wild eyed psycho, remember!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

cold war kid said:


> Ha, ha. My wife drinks that shit. With coffee mate and artificial sweetener.
> 
> Some people's palates just aren't as sophisticated as others. I've got a mate who practically lives off fish finger butties and he's 40. It takes all sorts I suppose.
> 
> ...


Instant and decaf have their place.

The bin, usually.


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