# KINU M47 or K30?!



## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

I know the thread title is startling but I feel stuck.

I only make max 2 x drinks a day which would seem a tiny amount to justify a used K30 but I would actually like to drink more but the Hario Slim I am using at the moment takes so long to grind 15 g of beans (approx 4 mins) that I just can't be bothered most of the time. Its also a buzz kill when making drinks for guests.

The attraction of getting the "grinder for life" and be able to prep drinks rapidly rather than a stop gap hand grinder seems very attractive.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance guys!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

The truth is that for the majority of home users cannot justify high end gear based on number of drinks / day

Based on convenience and quality of coffee then the argument can be had to justify the spend.

If you have the money available and can see the benefits then go for it. Just don't try to justify the spend - its not an easy argument


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

How much money do you actually have to spend ... are you happy to run a few beans in the hopper of a k30 for example

Why are these the inly two options presented?


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## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

Thanks for the rapid, helpful responses guys.

I actually have up to £1200 to spend but was hoping to obtain a K30 used for about £600 as I know they have been round for a while and built like tanks.

Why are these the inly two options presented?

I arrived at these two grinders because they seemed to be the "best" in their class.

The K30 seems to be an aspirational grinder alongside the EK43 and Monolith (although for very different users I know)

The M47 seems to avoid the ergonomic issues of the Pharos and appears more highly regarded than the Lido or Feldgrind.

Thanks again for your help.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Seems like you have your mind made up , but " best in class " is subjective for £6-800 there are grinders that will do the same thing and produce equally as good coffee ( did you spend alot of time researching on Home barista , as the k30 ( if you don't wanna spend dollars on a monolith ) it's the grinder of choice there.

Opinions on gear on forums tend to be shaped by a few people ( either they shout loudest or have been around the longest ) , after that people follow suit and it's rare people will tell you what they own isn't the best .

On HB its the gs3 and either a k30 or monolith nowadays. Prior to that it was a Strega , while at the same time you couldn't give away a Strega on this forum and the gs3 ownership is limited , perhaps we have less money that the yanks who knows...


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

Before dfk turns up I'll throw the mythos into the equation - based on your comments on the k30. K30 seems to have fallen out of favour in the last couple of years and there aren't many coming up for sale. There's loads of good grinders available in your price bracket


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Kinu M68


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## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Seems like you have your mind made up , but " best in class " is subjective for £6-800 there are grinders that will do the same thing and produce equally as good coffee ( did you spend alot of time researching on Home barista , as the k30 ( if you don't wanna spend dollars on a monolith ) it's the grinder of choice there.
> 
> Opinions on gear on forums tend to be shaped by a few people ( either they shout loudest or have been around the longest ) , after that people follow suit and it's rare people will tell you what they own isn't the best .
> 
> On HB its the gs3 and either a k30 or monolith nowadays. Prior to that it was a Strega , while at the same time you couldn't give away a Strega on this forum and the gs3 ownership is limited , perhaps we have less money that the yanks who knows...


Oh wow you called me. That is exactly what's happened. I feel a little foolish.

Out of interest then, what is the grinder of choice here?

I am after a grinder that will be robust enough to last for years, have great consistency and little retention. I'm also concerned by static and distribution....

I've been keeping my eye on an E37 and Eurekas of various flavours.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

The Eureka Mythos is pretty much considered 'best in class' round these parts and ticks all your boxes. You dont see them second hand that often however.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dantaito said:


> Oh wow you called me. That is exactly what's happened. I feel a little foolish.
> 
> Out of interest then, what is the grinder of choice here?
> 
> ...


Dont feel foolish , wasn't trying to call you out I just giving you a little perspective on how to reach as choice and perhaps understanding a lot of the noise that comes from " whats the best grinder threads " - the answer being the one that most people own ...

I had a k30 for a while , they will make good coffee and are reasonably compact..if you can get a reasonably new one for £600 than thats good , although the older they get , the closer id want to be towards £400 . be aware the burrs aint cheap ..


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dylan said:


> The Eureka Mythos is pretty much considered 'best in class' round these parts and ticks all your boxes. You dont see them second hand that often however.


there are so good some people have bought them twice or twelvty times even.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> there are so good some people have bought them twice or twelvty times even.


I am that man! OK, my two pence worth. There are a lot of grinders around, and I have had most of them. The reason for this is I have no objection to buying something, trying it out and selling it on. Whatever I lose I just class as rent. The K30 has not changed in years. It always was under powered and still is. The early models clump terribly and although it is possible to change the cassette it is expensive. The burrs are the best available but very expensive. Royals, E37S, Compaks E8 & 10's all have things going for them, but the one grinder I always come back to is the Mythos. The burrs are set at a 45 degree angle which means that the coffee when exiting only has one way to go and thas straight down and without the need for centrifugal force. The result is the most perfect mound of coffee in the basket. Only downsize is size and looks, but, how many of us married models?


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## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

Thanks so much for you highly educational and entertaining feedback everyone! I will keep looking and investigating, partly due to the fact the Mythos is sadly out of my budget unfortunately. Maybe I should hold out and save.


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

You'll get a used one within your budget.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

working dog said:


> You'll get a used one within your budget.


Like so: https://www.gumtree.com/p/restaurant-catering-equipment/victoria-arduino-mythos-one/1250204914

But you can get a more used one for £6-800, or less if you are particularly lucky.


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## funinacup (Aug 30, 2010)

Mythos Ones are the best around. Yes we sell them, but we also use 5 of them in various locations due to their performance.

In that budget though we have an ex demo Eureka 75E. Same burr size as the Mythos but not Ti coated. You can PM me if you want any info.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Same one is on eBay. That's around 13.4% fees so I reckon if you went to London you might get it for £900


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## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

Thanks guys. The Mythos is a BEAST. I think it maybe too big for my kitchen. I can understand why its an amazing machine after reading up on it here and elsewhere but unfortunately I think it's a no go.

Can I ask one more question....

After reading some negative posts about the quality of espresso served in so-called speciality coffee shops, I am concerned that my inexperienced palette at home will not appreciate the jump from say a Vario to a Mythos as you guys seems to be operating on another plane to the espresso that I'm used to tasting when out and about in an independent coffee shop.

Or am I about to open Pandora's box - tastes and sensations that I have not experienced yet from truly great espresso?

Thanks again.

PS I'm also enjoying the acerbic humour - portrait videography!


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## 4515 (Jan 30, 2013)

You will definitely taste the difference. You will then be looking for further gains through technique and equipment.

Enjoy the journey


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

Dantaito said:


> Or am I about to open Pandora's box - tastes and sensations that I have not experienced yet from truly great espresso?


Don't do it!


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## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

Stanic said:


> Don't do it!


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

Going back to your original question, the Kinu M47 is a fantastic grinder. It's in a completely different league to the Hario and, for espresso, much better both ergonomically and in the cup than the Feldgrind (I own examples of all of the these). It takes 40s to grind an 18g dose of a lighter roast for espresso and, for some reason, is not plagued by the static issues that affect larger grinders when single dosing. I haven't done a careful side by side comparison yet, but I'm finding I'm using it more often than my motorised grinder (68mm conical).


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## The_West (May 8, 2015)

I very much like the M47, too. Sturdy design, consistent grind size, and I haven't noticed much static.

Unfortunately, it only grinds in the fine-medium range, so I'm not able to use it for French press, or other coarse brew methods (like Eva Solo). I've attached a photo showing grinds at its coarsest setting. Coarse enough for pour-over, I think, but not French press, etc.

I bought the M47 as an easily adjustable do-it-all grinder for espresso and French press, so I'm a little disappointed that it only handles fine-medium coarse brew methods. Many other grinders are likewise limited, but I wish Kinu made this clear up front.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

The_West said:


> I very much like the M47, too. Sturdy design, consistent grind size, and I haven't noticed much static.
> 
> Unfortunately, it only grinds in the fine-medium range, so I'm not able to use it for French press, or other coarse brew methods (like Eva Solo). I've attached a photo showing grinds at its coarsest setting. Coarse enough for pour-over, I think, but not French press, etc.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I understand your frustration.

The question is, is there actually any grinder on the market capable of grinding from espresso to french press?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

French press doesn't need a coarse grind, it's a total myth.

Large press will be fine with drip grind, small press can use as fine as you can go before silt flattens off the flavour (maybe what you'd use for a small V60 brew). Use the Hoffmann, no plunge, technique & don't kick up the bed.


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

when I do french press now I grind coarse but within the settings of the grinder, bit coarser than drip, use 88 degree water and let it brew longer, say 6 minutes, the coffee is often very chocolatey


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You won't over-extract, 6 minutes isn't long, I brew with boiling water, small pots (finer than I use for single mug V60) steep for 20-30 minutes, big ones (same grind as a 40g dose drip brew at coarsest) can go an hour.

Non-chocolatey coffee, suddenly tasting very chocolatey is a sign that what you are doing is changing the flavour/extraction.

You can steep less for sure, but time & extraction increase together for a given grind size (you can't get a higher extraction at a given grind by going shorter), but typically, light/medium coffees top out around 22-23% average. Immersion can taste sweet higher than that.


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## The_West (May 8, 2015)

Thanks Stanic. I'm going to give a finer grind, longer brewing French press brew a shot with the M47 at its coarsest setting. MWJB, I'll give the Hoffman technique a try, but I'm skeptical that the 30-60 minute brew with fine grinds that you mention will produce French press brew as I know and like it.

Also, in the next few weeks, I'll try to compare espresso made with the M47 vs a Pharos.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The_West said:


> MWJB, I'll give the Hoffman technique a try, but I'm skeptical that the 30-60 minute brew with fine grinds that you mention will produce French press brew as I know and like it.


Make it how you like it, but not having a very coarse grind shouldn't be stopping you from getting what you want. If necessary, go shorter on the steep to compensate.

The crux of what I'm saying is that the coffee does not continue to extract fast enough to overcome the dropping temperature, so extraction is limited/capped in effect, unlike drip.

Fine grinds sink faster than coarse grinds (though as I said, a 60min steep can use typical drip). I don't like my French press coffee to taste any different to any other brew method, I like it sweet & clean (though I appreciate others may like it brighter & chewier). I also prefer my coffee around 55C & lower (again others have different preferences) & I have found no disadvantage in letting the coffee hit this temp before decanting.


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## GlennV (Mar 29, 2013)

The_West said:


> I very much like the M47, too. Sturdy design, consistent grind size, and I haven't noticed much static.
> 
> Unfortunately, it only grinds in the fine-medium range, so I'm not able to use it for French press, or other coarse brew methods (like Eva Solo). I've attached a photo showing grinds at its coarsest setting. Coarse enough for pour-over, I think, but not French press, etc.
> 
> ...


I don't know if they've changed anything, but mine goes very coarse indeed. The attached photo is at 7 full turns from zero and is far coarser than anything I'd use to make coffee. You have fully loosened the thumbwheel at the top?


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## The_West (May 8, 2015)

Glenn, thanks so much for your post, you're absolutely right! I had no idea that that the thumbwheel needs to be loosened to further adjust the coarseness (I assumed it was just to loosen and remove the handle). The coarseness adjusts freely at the finer range (and stays in place once selected) without having to use the thumbwheel, but I now see that loosening the wheel opens up the full range of coarseness. Nice!

I do place some of the blame on the one-page German diagram that Kinu provides in the way of an instruction manual, and their shift from prompt responsiveness to my questions while placing my order to silence after ordering (I sent two e-mails with simple questions over the past few weeks, but they have not responded).

MWJB, thanks for your follow-up explanation. Now I understand and am going to give a finer French press grind a shot.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

The_West said:


> I do place some of the blame on the one-page German diagram that Kinu provides in the way of an instruction manual, and their shift from prompt responsiveness to my questions while placing my order to silence after ordering (I sent two e-mails with simple questions over the past few weeks, but they have not responded).


On that, just to let you know, Christian was at the Coffee Festival in Budapest two weeks ago, and I believe he was out of the office last week. He replied to my questions that I places a week ago or so only this Saturday. He'll get back to you no doubt.

I use FB messenger to talk to him.

Regards and enjoy the M47!


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## Dantaito (May 10, 2017)

Sorry guys, just jumping back to the K30 and the cassette replacement cost. There is a K30 AIR on eBay and I did some research and it was introduced in 2013.

Is this after cassette-gate? i.e. would a K30 AIR have the new cassette?

thanks again guys.


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