# Still struggling,,,



## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Hey, still struggling with what I think is sour tasting shots, tho I'm starting to go off my head whether the shot is sour or bitter.

Had the odd okish espresso from the gas bean starter packs but on the whole most have been pretty bad.

Tried adjusting grind, amount in, amount out and have been working on temp surfing as well.

The best shots I'm getting so far are out of shop ground and roasted beans, about 2 week old now.

For that I'm using 20g in and around 36/38g out.

Although I was under no illusions that perfection would be hard, I thought a decent espresso would be fairly easy to achieve.

Any further suggestions folks?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

What bean is it your getting the bad shots from?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

scot13 said:


> Hey, still struggling with what I think is sour tasting shots, tho I'm starting to go off my head whether the shot is sour or bitter.


Which HX machine have you got, are you using erics e61 thermometer, what brew pressure are you using and how long are the shots?


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> What bean is it your getting the bad shots from?


From all of them to varying degrees. Prob hitting it best with jailbreak and Blake.

I suppose bean jumping isn't helping. Next purchase is a kg to try for consistency


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Are you doing any form of temp surfing on your classic.?

You using a porlex or a skerton? These are difficult and frustrating grinders to use for espresso and I think personally just plain unsuited

Also what basket Re you using 20g in anything other than a triple basket is going to be too much ...


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> Are you doing any form of temp surfing on your classic.?
> 
> You using a porlex or a skerton? These are difficult and frustrating grinders to use for espresso and I think personally just plain unsuited
> 
> Also what basket Re you using 20g in anything other than a triple basket is going to be too much ...


Surfing using steam button before pulling shot.

Using a porlex.

Double Basket so yes, 20g needs a firm tanp


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'd go 18g absolute max in a stock double

If your using pre ground then your effectively overloading the basket ( 20 g ) to slow down the extraction .

With the porlex I'd go 18g max and try for 36 gout in 25-30 seconds....

The porlex isn't really designed for espresso , you can fudge it with hard tamp and upping dose but it's not a hugely consistent grid at espresso level

And the " steps" are pretty big between clicks making it hard to adjust the grind size .


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

When I was using a Porlex and a Gaggia standard basket dosing 14g-16g.

Definitely stick with 1 dose weight and adjust 1 variable at a time start with the grind.

I always found 2-3 clicks from tightest worked best for espresso. This will differ from bean type.

When you set the click on the porlex rest it against the bump of the next coarsest click. I.e 2 clicks from tight, rest it against bump 3. The reason for this is that the grinder can unwind as you crank it. Hope that makes sense.

You can also buy a nylon but from B&Q which you can tighten on the bottom of the bolt. This allows you to do i between grind settings.


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## Has Bean (Sep 12, 2014)

The grinder isn't ideal , although its doable .

Try running a shot loads longer , say 18g into 45g - report back


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Has Bean said:


> The grinder isn't ideal , although its doable .
> 
> Try running a shot loads longer , say 18g into 45g - report back


Thanks will do, but not tonight!

I get its not the best grinder but I also think that it should be doable and I should def be getting something better than I am so far.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

scot13 said:


> Thanks will do, but not tonight!
> 
> I get its not the best grinder but I also think that it should be doable and I should def be getting something better than I am so far.


I started out with Porlex and a Classic. It's really hard work especially when the Porlex I issued had flawed burrs I was grinding at 7 clicks!









I managed to get ok results with the Porlex after buying a Mignon (and knowing what it should be) and then getting proper burs for the Porlex.

Let us know how you get on.


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Has Bean said:


> The grinder isn't ideal , although its doable .
> 
> Try running a shot loads longer , say 18g into 45g - report back


So ran 18g into 45g. Quite a bit better. Drinkable at least, which was a nice change. Maybe a bit bitter rather than sour this time. It did run very slow so will try slightly coarser grind bit by bit with same input and output.

Thanks guys, finally feel like I'm getting somewhere.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

OK try for your 18 into 45 at around 25- 30 seconds ..should sweeten it up a little . how long was long?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I would suggest at this stage to try and tamp less firmly before adjusting the grind.

Its very easy to tamp too firm when you start out and choke your machine.


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## Bigpikle (Oct 14, 2014)

I fell into the tamping tap with my Porlex. I was finding the finer settings (-1 click from the finest point) was ok in my Classic but only if I was careful not to tamp too hard. Using the bathroom scales to learn what 30lbs was really like was very helpful and then backing off slightly with this grind setting. The next step coarser (-2 clicks from finest) was always too coarse and nothing would stop the shot being too fast.


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Mrboots2u said:


> OK try for your 18 into 45 at around 25- 30 seconds ..should sweeten it up a little . how long was long?


This morning it was almost a minute. Just now I pulled 2 doubles that were pretty consistent and pretty good. Tried a lighter tamp both times. First one pulled in 55 secs and second, with a lighter tamp still, pulled in 45secs.

I'm wondering whether I should coarse the grind by the min adjustment possible to try to get the pull time down to the 35s mark?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Id try and get time down And see how it tastes....

Perhaps one notch might do it , hard for me to predict


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

From someone who had the same problem as you, i would only change one variable at a time... I always do 18g, i always tamp the same (once your hand and arm learns its surprisingly consistent), i go for 28g out in roughly 30 seconds, which is what i believe you should be aiming for... I just eye ball it now, and generally im bang on... Also stick to one bean until you master it, that helped me massively.. But as others have said it may be your grinder thats the issue here unfortunatly... For a classic i can reccomend the smart grinder but will cost you a pony.. Stick at it, there is defo a learning curve to get over with espresso... Also some beans do have a sour taste, but if you've tried different ones, it cant be that.


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## Has Bean (Sep 12, 2014)

scot13 said:


> This morning it was almost a minute. Just now I pulled 2 doubles that were pretty consistent and pretty good. Tried a lighter tamp both times. First one pulled in 55 secs and second, with a lighter tamp still, pulled in 45secs.
> 
> I'm wondering whether I should coarse the grind by the min adjustment possible to try to get the pull time down to the 35s mark?


Glad you're getting somewhere. Jailbreak is pretty darn forgiving and can taste great at 25 seconds or 45 seconds, Blake lends itself to shots with less water run through them but again don't be scared of longish shot times.

Try not to make tamping another variable to worry about. Stick to one pressure, stick to it , and, work around that


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Burnzy said:


> From someone who had the same problem as you, i would only change one variable at a time... I always do 18g, i always tamp the same (once your hand and arm learns its surprisingly consistent), i go for 28g out in roughly 30 seconds, which is what i believe you should be aiming for... I just eye ball it now, and generally im bang on... Also stick to one bean until you master it, that helped me massively.. But as others have said it may be your grinder thats the issue here unfortunatly... For a classic i can reccomend the smart grinder but will cost you a pony.. Stick at it, there is defo a learning curve to get over with espresso... Also some beans do have a sour taste, but if you've tried different ones, it cant be that.


Do you mean "smart" by sage, or breville?


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## scot13 (Oct 12, 2014)

Has Bean said:


> Glad you're getting somewhere. Jailbreak is pretty darn forgiving and can taste great at 25 seconds or 45 seconds, Blake lends itself to shots with less water run through them but again don't be scared of longish shot times.
> 
> Try not to make tamping another variable to worry about. Stick to one pressure, stick to it , and, work around that


That's the jail break I'm on. Finding best results with that's on so far.


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## Burnzy (Apr 17, 2014)

scot13 said:


> Do you mean "smart" by sage, or breville?


i have the sage, its a great pair for a classic imo. I love it..


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