# Zenith 65e, really struggling with Clumping



## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi All

I have had my Zenith 65e since November and have never really had many issues with clumping that could not be solved by a quick WDT.

Recently however I have started to have real problems that are not easily resolved, even by WDT. This is leading to lots of channeling, as you can see by the state of my poor scales (a new set this weekend)

Below is a picture of the kind of thing that is coming out of the grinder at the moment.

MrBoots2U has been very kind with advice on twitter about how I can rectify this, but to no avail


I have tried increasing grind size and dose, but the point at which clumping stops is far too high for espresso

I have tried a different coffee - the issue still remains

I have tried using a plastic cup top as crude coffee catcha

I have opened up and cleaned the grinder


I have not changed anything recently. I did wonder if it could be down to a change in the weather of late or something completely out of my control

It is driving me nuts and I have not had a decent shot for days now! HELP


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Check the exit port inside the burr chamber and the whole exit area is completely clear of stale hard coffee!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Yipes that is clumpy


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

DavecUK said:


> Check the exit port inside the burr chamber and the whole exit area is completely clear of stale hard coffee!


I have tried that, been at it with a brush and skewer from both inside the grinder and up through the chute.

Thanks for the suggestion though


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Try a different bean?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Glenn said:


> Try a different bean?


Tried that too. Tried a new bean today, was roasted 6 days ago. Just as bad, if not worse.

Thanks though, appreciate the help


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

clumpy... bouldery more like, eeck!

Wooden toothpick time around the exit chute from inside the burr area paying particular attention to the "sweepers" as coffee tends to build up here especially if recently grinding some thing dark or oily.

Weekly top burr off clean part of my regular cleaning regime, made easier by the floating bottom burr, may also help.

John


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Proper maltesers


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

johnealey said:


> clumpy... bouldery more like, eeck!
> 
> Wooden toothpick time around the exit chute from inside the burr area paying particular attention to the "sweepers" as coffee tends to build up here especially if recently grinding some thing dark or oily.
> 
> ...


I know right! Huge clumps.

I have just opened it up again and below are the pictures.

2 issues I can see;

The coffee bean stuck in there, although it is not touching the burrs, so not sure if that would cause an issue.

The burrs look to have a few nicks in them. Now I have never heard a stone go through the grinder, and I recently started to check my beans before they go in, so not sure where they have come from?

I gave the chute a good clean out again, from both the inside and the outside. I used a flexible plastic straw to go all the way though, and a cocktail stick on the internal end of the chute. What is actually inside the chute?

It does seem to have made a marked difference to the size of the clumps, they are much smaller, although they are still there.

We might be on to something here though. Thanks very much for the advice


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> Proper maltesers


mmm maltesers!


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

maltesers when it comes to grinders are never mmm


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> maltesers when it comes to grinders are never mmm


No, not when you have wasted a whole bag of coffee trying to get rid of the buggars.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Try and get between the sweeper and the burr carrier as any grinds stuck here tend to be quite resistant, really taking a bit of effort.

Cocktail stick around the screw heads on the burrs (both top and bottom) also and can't remember where got this from but is called a flexible plug hole cleaner which I push up the exit chute when changing beans of emptying hopper (think they were 2 for a pound on a card, morrisons or similar, designed for getting hair from plugholes, eueukk, better for coffee grinds, pictures below)







View attachment 13272


hope of help

John


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Thanks very much John

I will see what I can find tomorrow.

Does the chute have anything in it, or is it a straight drop out. The reason I ask is that I tried to shine a light through it earlier, but no light came out of the other end.

Aaron


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi Aaron

just saw your question about what is inside the chute. There are 2 plastic finger prongs that sit in the roof of the chute just inside the entrance from the burrs which are slightly split apart, which is why in hindsight I think I wanted to find a brush rather than something solid so as to get into the gap a bit.

Am sure someone has posted a link to an exploded parts diagram that show these within the eureka section here but think your first two finger outstretched on their own and you get the idea.

John


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Chute not a straight drop (plus the fingers above) which is possibly why you not seeing any light and why a flexible brush of the type above makes sense i guess.

John


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Great stuff, thanks John. Will give that a try when I can get hold of a suitable brush.

I will let you know how I get on . Thanks everyone for the advice and feedback

Aaron


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Right found it: link to an exploded parts diagram which shows the chute and "fingers" which presume are intend as a form of clump breaker ( am acutley aware of the irony here...)

http://nuovasimonelliusa.com/images/Eureka%20Zenith/EZENITH65E_110.pdf

John


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## Sean (Jun 20, 2014)

I too struggle with the clumping at times. Varies in severity but seems to get worse towards the end of a batch. Haven't truly found a solution to the clumping itself. However I have found that different beans like different tampers and a varying (depending on bean and fineness) degree of nutation really worked wonders for channelling and spritzing. I use either the 58.55 flat or the 58.4 convex. Getting decent results. As I eluded to, the amount of nutation and pressure applied depends on how fine you are grinding.


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## gman147 (Jul 7, 2012)

Blimey grind looks more like chocolate truffles from Thortons. How old are those burrs sir?


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

gman147 said:


> Blimey grind looks more like chocolate truffles from Thortons. How old are those burrs sir?


Ha ha they are terrible right. The burrs are coming up for 6 months old

Cleaning the chute out has helped a lot. I need to get a better tool for the job and have another crack at it tonight


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

So a thorough brushing does seem to have reduced the size and amount of clumps which has in turn reduced channelling significantly.

Coffee was still awful this evening. Need to refine grind settings now


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

Is there a specially designed brush/tool for cleaning out grinder chutes?

I've been using a piece of reed, type you get with bottles of room freshener oils. Prize open the exit chute then wiggle it around until most of the grinds fall out. Then use a narrow width paint brush.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Hi Doubleshot

the flexi brush thingy have posted photo's of on page 2 this thread is just the right size and flexibility to give the 65e chute a good clean out.

Believe the packaging described it as a plug hole hair removing brush and there were two of them on a retail card for about a pound, 1 being slightly longer than the other.

We possibly have put close to or about 75 plus kilos through ours and have never seen the level of clumping Aaron has, but then as mentioned earlier this thread, top off, burrs cleaned weekly with a chute clean every hopper emptying (pretty much daily) might be the reason.

We do drink a lot of coffee in this house and 1-1.5kilos is average, with visitors just goes up!

Hope of help

John


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

That sounds like just what I could do with. Don't have a decent sized Morrisons around here, just those tiny ones that stock very little!


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

So I have had another go at cleaning this out. I got right in there with a bottle brush. I didn't feel like there was any obstruction in the chute, so I was not convinced there were any anti clumping fingers in the chute. I got in there with a torch and couldn't see any. I wonder if I have a version of the grinder without them?

When you guys adjust grind, do you only do it while grinder is rotating


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## DoubleShot (Apr 23, 2014)

aaroncornish said:


> When you guys adjust grind, do you only do it while grinder is rotating


If you're adjusting finer then it is 'suggested' to have the grinder running to prevent anything getting stuck in the burr teeth. If going courser there is no need.


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## Dylan (Dec 5, 2011)

If your grinder has just been opened up and cleaned there is no need to have it running.


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## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

+1 on the above grinder running (with beans in, noting Dylans post whilst was typing the below)

You'll cark yourself the first time you forget and adjust down and all you hear is a faint whine as the motor doesn't turn (easily remedied by backing it off quickly








)

The fingers appear to be in the roof of the first part of the chute near the exit from the grind chamber so above what you can see from the chamber and "round the cporner" if you looking up, if that makes sense.

Don't think they are described as a clump crusher and definately not serving the same purpose as the mythos clump crusher.

However, any clumps easily squashed / nutated out so unless the size of maltesers possibly not so much of an issue as first appears.

John


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

Quick update for you, as soon as the clumping started, it has largely disappeared.

Still get a bit of clumping but nothing to write home about, or anything that is causing issues.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions and advice.


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## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

I guess you needn't worry about this grinder anymore eh, mr jammy! ;-)


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

aaroncornish said:


> Quick update for you, as soon as the clumping started, it has largely disappeared.
> 
> Still get a bit of clumping but nothing to write home about, or anything that is causing issues.
> 
> Thanks again for all of your suggestions and advice.


How long from buying the grinder did it take for the clumping to start... I'm thinking of putting this onto my short list just a bit concerned that it needs a bit to much regular maintenance?


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## Spazbarista (Dec 6, 2011)

If it is any consolation I've been using mine for a year, only cleaned it once, and no clumping whatsoever. Really nice even grind. Just sprays it straight into the basket.


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

Spazbarista said:


> If it is any consolation I've been using mine for a year, only cleaned it once, and no clumping whatsoever. Really nice even grind. Just sprays it straight into the basket.


On to the the short list it goes!!


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## Spooks (Feb 20, 2012)

Ironically I have Aaron's ole 65e and never noted a clumping problem with any of the beans I use.


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## aaroncornish (Nov 7, 2012)

It is a lovely grinder. I really loved it. Would not have got rid, had I not won the e8. It is living with @spooks now


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## Spooks (Feb 20, 2012)

@aaroncornish she is being well looked after and I love it, brilliant grinder.


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## jamfit (Apr 27, 2015)

aaroncornish said:


> It is a lovely grinder. I really loved it. Would not have got rid, had I not won the e8. It is living with @spooks now


Won a e8.... You lucky man no wonder your smiling !!


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## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

Hello all - I see I'm reopening a very old thread, so hopefully that's okay?

In short I've had the Zenith 65e for five years and have reached the conclusion it's rubbish, primarily due to its clumping. Before I throw the towel in, I thought I'd check here. I've cleaned thoroughly, sung sweetly to it and generally pampered, but to no avail.

Final trick was to look at the clump crusher and lo and behold, thought I'd found the answer (it had no clump crusher!)

You can see before and after pics below (of the old "clump crusher" and new) , but the results remain poor. All the clump crusher seems to do is slice the clumps. The pic below is actually pretty good by comparison to what normally comes out

Grinder is about 5 years old from new - I'm putting around 1kg of coffee through it per week since lockdown, but probably half that before. Absolute max through it would be 60kg

Any thoughts?

Cheers!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I checked back on my old review and didn't have any comments about clumping...it was a lot time ago, 7 years to be precise. I doubt they changed much for your model. Has it always clumped, do you use it with a fairly full hopper?

from what I see the grinds don't look too dark, so a solution would be to grind into a container and stir before transferring to portafilter. or use a doser ring and a portafilter stirrer tool to break up the clumps. The other option is to sell it and buy something else I guess. Although it sounds more like a workflow irritation, rather than a grind quality one?


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## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> I checked back on my old review and didn't have any comments about clumping...it was a lot time ago, 7 years to be precise. I doubt they changed much for your model. Has it always clumped, do you use it with a fairly full hopper?
> 
> from what I see the grinds don't look too dark, so a solution would be to grind into a container and stir before transferring to portafilter. or use a doser ring and a portafilter stirrer tool to break up the clumps. The other option is to sell it and buy something else I guess. Although it sounds more like a workflow irritation, rather than a grind quality one?


 Thanks Dave. It's always been bad. I originally assumed it was because the burrs needed to bed in, but that ship has surely sailed!

I tend to single dose, so not sure if that's part of the problem. I'm toying with the idea of getting a niche zero but wanted to see if I could fix this. Also not sure I could sell this in good conscience if I don't know why it is so clumpy. Would new burrs help, maybe?


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

I don't think new burrs would help and it's not designed for single dosing, which may be part of the problem.

A Niche will certainly give you the workflow you want, as long as you're cool with conical burrs. I still use one as my every day grinder and it don't believe I could find a better workflow.


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## squiggs1982 (Oct 29, 2011)

DavecUK said:


> I don't think new burrs would help and it's not designed for single dosing, which may be part of the problem.
> 
> A Niche will certainly give you the workflow you want, as long as you're cool with conical burrs. I still use one as my every day grinder and it don't believe I could feel be a better workflow.


 Understood. Thanks very much, Dave.


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