# Hot water for Americano



## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

not sure I'm getting this correct? (Gaggia classic)

when wanting hot water after pulling a shot the light comes back on after maybe 10 seconds,I then open the steamer knob fully and then switch on the brew button and the steamer button,is that correct? the temp seems abit low at 165,tried from the kettle just off the boil and get 180 in the cup?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

I don't have it with me, but doesn't the manual suggest pulling the shot into a cup of kettle boiled water?


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

I read the info on getting hot water from the steam wand but they are not too clear,I'll check to see if there is some info somewhere elsr in the book that is more related to water for an Americano...back soon.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

just checked,the only info on hot water is the "making hot water" section,it doesn't talk about pulling a shot first but says wait 6 mins after turning on then open wand,turn on brew button and steamer button for no longer than 60 seconds,I pull a shot first,then the light goes back on I follow these instructions,as said water doesn't seem hot enough,just wondering if either I'm doing something wrong,my machine is faulty or the hot water is not meant to be used for an Americano?


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

When I'm making Americanos, I wait for the machine to be hot (obviously) then basically fill my cup from the steam wand and put it to one side. Then make my double espresso as normal and then simply dump it from my little Rattleware jug into the cup of hot water. There's no point in having nearly boiling water cos then you just have to wait to drink it. All you're doing is watering down the espresso, the magic happens when your making that


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

think there is a problem with the thermostat!tried a few shots of water into a warmed (from brew head) glass and getting 160F if that,tried the same test with the kettle to check my thermometer is working correctly and whilst in boiling water (in kettle whilst boiling) the temp is very near 212F,in warmed glass temp is 185F,so looks like that is the reason for the low temp of the hot water,which is also means the brew temp is too low!!! anyone else tried this test? followed the proofing test sticky from here and it says I should be getting 192F into a syrofoam cup,I was using a warmed glass but that can't account for a 32F drop? is it a return to Amazon?


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## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Are you malfunctioning?


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Earlepap said:


> Are you malfunctioning?


lol seems so,I'll see if I can remove a few of those!

well no matter what I do I can't get a brew more than 160F and if I try and pull a second shot after the light comes back on the temp is 140F!

anyone fancy pulling a water only shot and seeing what temp they get? untill I have a chance on Monday to phone philips.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

just to update this thread,seems the Gaggia needs at leat 30 mins to warm up and a second shot can not be pulled untill another 2-3 heat cycles,even if the light is telling you it's at temp.


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

Just boil a kettle. It's a wee machine with a wee boiler.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Milesy said:


> Just boil a kettle. It's a wee machine with a wee boiler.


yeah will do,as the Gaggia is really not up to doing both in short succession,as my tests have shown me today.


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## ripley (Jan 16, 2012)

I had a longer reply typed out but lost it when I hit submit, so this is the shorter version

Pulled my first shot this morning and it was 180 degrees.This includes steaming about 50 ml of milk.

Pulled an empty shot about 4 minutes later and it was 180 degrees.

break for about 25 minutes.

Made another drink 180 degrees again steaming about 50 ml of milk.

pulled an empty shot this time immediately after - 180 degrees.

Pulled another empty and it was only on this one where the temp dial slowed down before reaching 180 degrees.

I used to have a problem with drinks not being hot enough. Now first thing I do is fill my insulated mug with boiling water before I start preparing the shot. I don't have a kettle, just one of those one cup things so the water is never 100 degrees anyway.

Then I fill the shot glass by hitting the brew switch. Measure the beans and grind. Fill portafilter and tamp. Flush the group head for about 5 seconds and then pull the shot - if the light goes off I wait until it comes back on









Once the shot is finished ( always 25 seconds) I emtpy the portafilter, pour the shot into the glass and then refill the shot glass from the machine to clean out the group head. Then I hit the steam button and the brew switch together and fill the mug to the desired level from the steam wand, always submerging the wand into the coffee. I then switch off the brew switch - leaving the steam on and wait to steam the milk.

And thats the shorter version.....Jeeez.







In hindsight I suspect that its the addition of the steamed milk that helps keep the temp up.

If you do suspect the thermostats on the machine are not working properly, do what I did, play with the machine for several weeks then just before the 30 days return period is up - return it for a nice new shiny one


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

180? test says it should be 192 at least,think I followed your method apart from when you moved to the wand and seemed to be saying you added some water and steamed milk? what drink were you making? An Americano?if I followed your method on my machine I would almost certainly get a below correct temp drink,keeping stuff warm is all well and good but the main fctor is the temp of the water whilst brewing,get that wrong and all is losted.

after a load of testing,I got to the magic 192F,method was leaving the machine for at least 30mins if not more,not temp surfing but waiting for a heat cycle to complete,when brew light goes out I jump into action,as soon as light goes back on I press the brew button,this got me a temp of just over 190F into a styrofoam cup,waiting for the heat cycle to complete was not enough to achive a 192F temp again,another 3-4 heat cycles were needed to get a correct temp again.Pulling hot water is not possible for an Americano unless you use the steam button to preheat the water before drawing the water but even then would not give enough hot water for a drink.

Pulled a few shots today and am happy with the resuls,I just need to make sure of a good machine pre-warm and hope any guests want tea lol or I again would have to use the steam button to trick the heater back on and raise the water temp,if more than one drink were needed but would be hit and miss with what temp I would be getting.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

The manual suggests drawing the hot water from the steam wand first...then bring down the boiler temp by removing the portafilter, turning water/brew & steam switches on and filling a cup with water from the brewhead..

180 degrees F is 82 degrees C...seems significantly hotter than the typical cup temperature of an espresso?


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

MWJB said:


> The manual suggests drawing the hot water from the steam wand first...then bring down the boiler temp by removing the portafilter, turning water/brew & steam switches on and filling a cup with water from the brewhead..
> 
> 180 degrees F is 82 degrees C...seems significantly hotter than the typical cup temperature of an espresso?


my tests showed the machine struggled to get back to temp for at least 5 mins after it was used,pulling enough water for a Amercano would lower the temp loads and I doubt would be able to heat enought water in the boiler for an Americano anyway,not tried so could work!

as for the 180F remeber the 192F is without coffee or PF,passing through both of those would lower the temp by a big amount,so a starting temp of 180 would not be a good brewing temp.


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## ripley (Jan 16, 2012)

snegger said:


> my tests showed the machine struggled to get back to temp for at least 5 mins after it was used,pulling enough water for a Amercano would lower the temp loads and I doubt would be able to heat enought water in the boiler for an Americano anyway,not tried so could work!
> 
> as for the 180F remeber the 192F is without coffee or PF,passing through both of those would lower the temp by a big amount,so a starting temp of 180 would not be a good brewing temp.


Hi sorry I never made that clear - the 180 degrees is not directly from the group head but through the portafilter and basket










Phewww


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

ripley said:


> Hi sorry I never made that clear - the 180 degrees is not directly from the group head but through the portafilter and basket
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you're getting a good temp there then!


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## ripley (Jan 16, 2012)

snegger said:


> you're getting a good temp there then!


yes I seem to get quite a good result - you are right though, the machine does need time to heat up properly. I don't notice this time any more as I have that timer - but on checking it, I do have it set to switch on 30 minutes before I get up and same again for coming home in the evening. Making a coffee is the first thing I do each morning, I'd be washed, dressed and out the door before the machine had time to reach temp half the time and going to work without a lusty glaze is my idea of hell hehe


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

ripley said:


> yes I seem to get quite a good result - you are right though, the machine does need time to heat up properly. I don't notice this time any more as I have that timer - but on checking it, I do have it set to switch on 30 minutes before I get up and same again for coming home in the evening. Making a coffee is the first thing I do each morning, I'd be washed, dressed and out the door before the machine had time to reach temp half the time and going to work without a lusty glaze is my idea of hell hehe


yeah I've changed my mindon that too lol, boy I need to have some conviction in my posts! agree a timer is very much needed.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi snegger. Just from reading your first post, I think I can see a problem. You're supposed to flick the steam switch, then wait a bit, and THEN open the steam wand using the knob. This will allow the boiler enough time to reach the new desired water temp and so produce steam.

Hope this helps









EDIT - sorry, haven't had my first coffee of the day yet and have totally answered the wrong question!


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

Django said:


> Hi snegger. Just from reading your first post, I think I can see a problem. You're supposed to flick the steam switch, then wait a bit, and THEN open the steam wand using the knob. This will allow the boiler enough time to reach the new desired water temp and so produce steam.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> ...


Haha, I was gonna say?! Who asked that?


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## ripley (Jan 16, 2012)

chimpsinties said:


> Haha, I was gonna say?! Who asked that?


LOL

can you give me the link to the original question? I need to check the answer....


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> Hi snegger. Just from reading your first post, I think I can see a problem. You're supposed to flick the steam switch, then wait a bit, and THEN open the steam wand using the knob. This will allow the boiler enough time to reach the new desired water temp and so produce steam.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> ...


no think you were along the right track,I have asked a lot of questions so I'll take some of the blame.

yeah think you must have to hit the steam button then wait for brew light to show before openning the steam knob and then hitting the brew switch,which then should give hot WATER! (not steam,think you were still on my milk steaming thread lol).


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## PaulN (Mar 10, 2011)

Just for info when i make an Americano I pour the water from the group head into a mug first then pull a triple shot. They liken it to getting in a full bath of water vs sitting in a bath and filling it with boiling water.....

Also pouring the water primes the pump too.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

triple! do you use a standard size cup?


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

snegger said:


> no think you were along the right track,I have asked a lot of questions so I'll take some of the blame.
> 
> yeah think you must have to hit the steam button then wait for brew light to show before opening the steam knob and then hitting the brew switch,which then should give hot WATER! (not steam,think you were still on my milk steaming thread lol).


At least hitting the steam switch will get you some darn hot water!









But won't what you described give steam, not water?


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

chimpsinties said:


> Haha, I was gonna say?! Who asked that?


My homunculus - he is a fool.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> At least hitting the steam switch will get you some darn hot water!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yes if you don't hit the brew switch,openning the wand and having both buttoms on will give hot water.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Sorry, just to clarify...having the power switch and steam switch on, the brew switch off, and the steam valve open will produce hot water? I must confess, I've never used mt gaggia to make hot water.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> Sorry, just to clarify...having the power switch and steam switch on, the brew switch off, and the steam valve open will produce hot water? I must confess, I've never used mt gaggia to make hot water.


to get hot water you need the brew switch on and the steam switch.

just think of the brew switch as the pump switch,it pumps the water through the machine so any time the brew switch is on it will be water not steam you will be getting.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Ah I see, I think. I have always made steam with all switches on plus steam wand open, though. Should I be simply using the steam switch plus an open wand to produce steam? And then add the brew switch to change to water?

Doesn't having the steam switch on lead to too-hot water? Or do you just not wait for the boiler to heat up?

Will have a go soon at making an americano. I think my new hand grinder will arrive tomorrow so will report back.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

From playing with my classic, I've found this:

- steam switch on, brew switch off, wand open > steam

- steam switch on, brew switch on, wand open > hot water.

Our machines seem to do the opposite of one another!


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

snegger said:


> yes if you don't hit the brew switch,openning the wand and having both buttoms on will give hot water.


Think I was thrown off by this sentence. Reading back, I see what you meant. And now our machines agree with each other


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## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Mark (gaggiamanualservice) suggested you only need the steam switch on if you need steam. I presume this is because the control of the heating element is switched to the steam thermostat enabling more heat in the boiler which is desirable only for steam.

However, does pressing the steam switch operate the solenoid meaning water is not pumped to the group head? Pressing the brew switch with the wand open will definitely send hot water through the wand, but I think it will come through the group also.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

tribs said:


> Mark (gaggiamanualservice) suggested you only need the steam switch on if you need steam. I presume this is because the control of the heating element is switched to the steam thermostat enabling more heat in the boiler which is desirable only for steam.


if the steam switch is not on you would only get hot water at the espresso brewing temp,to get hot water for use in say an americano you would need higher water temp so the steam switch is needed as it raises the water temp high enough for steam so is plenty hot enough for an americano.


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## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I can't believe this thread has got to 4 pages and people are still disagreeing what switches should be on for what. Haha!


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Hey, there are all of THREE (THREE!!) buttons to be decided over here!


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

tribs said:


> Mark (gaggiamanualservice) suggested you only need the steam switch on if you need steam. I presume this is because the control of the heating element is switched to the steam thermostat enabling more heat in the boiler which is desirable only for steam.
> 
> However, does pressing the steam switch operate the solenoid meaning water is not pumped to the group head? Pressing the brew switch with the wand open will definitely send hot water through the wand, but I think it will come through the group also.


If this is true (about the solenoid) then I suppose you could just flick the steam switch on as you pour the hot water to close off the grouphead.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> If this is true (about the solenoid) then I suppose you could just flick the steam switch on as you pour the hot water to close off the grouphead.


remember the steam switch is already on lol


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

snegger said:


> remember the steam switch is already on lol


No no, we're talking about the possibility that the steam switch is not needed to be on to produce hot water but that if the steam switch is left off then the grouphead will pump as well as the wand.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> No no, we're talking about the possibility that the steam switch is not needed to be on to produce hot water but that if the steam switch is left off then the grouphead will pump as well as the wand.


why would there be a need to pump water from the wand, that wasn't hot because the steam switch wasn't on?

but yes water comes out of both if the steam switch is off.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Haha this is brilliant. Well, you can get water from the wand without the steam switch being on. The steam switch being on only increases the temp of that water. How hot should an americano be served?


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> Haha this is brilliant. Well, you can get water from the wand without the steam switch being on. The steam switch being on only increases the temp of that water. How hot should an americano be served?


water just off boiling

the brew water SHOULD in theory be hot enough as brew temp is or should be just off boiling point too,the steam switch is needed because the machine can not get back to correct temp fast enough,so the steam switch gives it a kick up the ass so to speak.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

I think we might have cracked it!


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> I think we might have cracked it!


lets hope so but just to be sure lets not offer Americanos to guests lol


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Oh, are we not pioneering theoretical baristas now? :/


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> Oh, are we not pioneering theoretical baristas now? :/


as much as you like but are we really ready to be let loose on the puplic?


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

ourcatkockedaglassofwaterovermkeboard

totalleefucked


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Have managed to hook my ipad up as a wireless keyboard - sweet. Anyway, my porlex grinder arrived this morning. first espresso was pretty good and will try an americano soon, will report back.


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

those grinders look cool!


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Yeah I'm pretty impressed by it. and a hell of a lot cheaper than a motored one. One of my burrs has a malformed section so I've requested a new burr set. have pulled two shot today though and both have been pretty good. the second became an americano, with success! I didn't use the steam switch to raise the water temp and it was plenty hot enough for me. what grinder are you running?


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

I got a hand grinder too,it's a peugeot hand grinder,I think it's great!


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

Awesome! In the long run I'd love a Mazzer but for now, and for a while, this this is perfect. It really doesn't take that long to grind a double shot, does it?


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## snegger (Dec 15, 2010)

Django said:


> Awesome! In the long run I'd love a Mazzer but for now, and for a while, this this is perfect. It really doesn't take that long to grind a double shot, does it?


never timed it but maybe 1.5 mins,I really don't mind it,quite enjoy it really,knowing I don't have to clean a big machine helps, it stores away in the cupboard which is a plus too.


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## Django (Mar 6, 2012)

True that. Off to make my first espresso of the day now. Thank god for cheap hand grinders.


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