# Single doser flat burr



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I'm a bit out of date these days, though does anyone know if there's a real alternative to the Niche with flat burrs for around the same price?

Anything now or news of products coming up?

I mean a proper single doser designed from the ground up - not some hopper machine with a blower attached etc.

Asking a lot I know though thought I'd check.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Wilfa uniform, I think is a single doser. Not sure how good it is.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ah sorry, I should have added - 'for espresso'

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Major + this kit = 400GBP = great for espresso!


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Other is Lagom P64 but it is 3x Niche price.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> Major + this kit = 400GBP = great for espresso!


This looks interesting - do you know how tall a major would be like this and where do I get the kit?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

https://home-doserless.com/product/mazzer-major/

About height I am not absolutely sure but Major without hopper is 42 cm or so.

One pic staying next to Classic for reference


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> Ah sorry, I should have added - 'for espresso'
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 The uniform is supposed to do espresso.


----------



## HBLP (Sep 23, 2018)

Rob1 said:


> The uniform is supposed to do espresso.


 It can be done, but it's not designed to really be an espresso grinder and lacks fine adjustment (41 steps altogether from espresso-fine to very coarse)


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> https://home-doserless.com/product/mazzer-major/
> About height I am not absolutely sure but Major without hopper is 42 cm or so.
> One pic staying next to Classic for reference
> <img alt="829871695_MajornexttoClassic.thumb.jpg.a3e5ad9a6e215c809d763644522ed877.jpg" data-fileid="42590" data-src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2020_07/829871695_MajornexttoClassic.thumb.jpg.a3e5ad9a6e215c809d763644522ed877.jpg" src="https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png">


Thanks pal will take a look

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> Thanks pal will take a look
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There's a Mazzer Royal in the FS section just gone in.... not sure if the same mod applies to the Royal too.


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

What I want to know is what makes any flat burr grinder good or bad at single dosing? 
Retention? 
Surely it's not popcorning as they niche does this. 
Do larger burrs help?


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomHughes said:


> What I want to know is what makes any flat burr grinder good or bad at single dosing?
> Retention?
> Surely it's not popcorning as they niche does this.
> Do larger burrs help?


 Some have a more tortuous grind path where grinds can collect, otherwise there's no difference.


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

MWJB said:


> Some have a more tortuous grind path where grinds can collect, otherwise there's no difference.


 Excellent, my DIY flat burr 45 deg grinder made from an old La Pavoni (Obel) has a mod to the chute and silicon blades on the burr carrier so retention is pretty much zero.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> There's a Mazzer Royal in the FS section just gone in.... not sure if the same mod applies to the Royal too.


Cool cheers - what's the difference between Royal and Major?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@kennyboy993 - Think both have 83mm burrs, Major uses the less aggressive ones whilst the Royal has the other types since it's motor is beefier.

Major is 38cm tall no hopper, Royal is ~46cm so a fair bit bigger and weighs ~60lbs 😢

If you have space for a Royal then I reckon you would have room for an EK43s potentially...


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Rpm mainly in home use 990(Royal) vs 1440(Major)

My kit is mounted on Royal but it is huge!!


----------



## JackHK (Aug 26, 2017)

kennyboy993 said:


> I'm a bit out of date these days, though does anyone know if there's a real alternative to the Niche with flat burrs for around the same price?
> 
> Anything now or news of products coming up?


 No, Nothing can beat the Niche price level

Ceado have some new, but price starts just below 1000 Uk£
https://www.ceado.com/en/product/89.html


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Santos barista is really nice


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@JackHK - And I thought the Niche was divisive in terms of looks... For a grand I wouldn't be expecting an adjustment ring that looked like it would normally be found on a jar of instant! ????







[IMG alt="" data-src=""]https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG]

@coffeechap - The Santos looks pretty good actually for the money, do you know if still has the mini auger like the previous model did?

Think @grumpydaddy had a modded stepped older one a while back.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @JackHK - And I thought the Niche was divisive in terms of looks... For a grand I wouldn't be expecting an adjustment ring that looked like it would normally be found on a jar of instant! ????
> 
> View attachment 42627
> [IMG alt="imageproxy.php?img=&key=5...plications/core/interface/js/spacer.png[/IMG]
> ...


 It's really good actually, for a small grinder, zero retention is achieved quite easily, plus I like the cut of the santos burrs


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

https://levercraftcoffee.com/pages/ultra-grinder


----------



## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Rob1 said:


> https://levercraftcoffee.com/pages/ultra-grinder


 Some of those specs sound rather optimistic.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Santos barista is really nice


More than double price of a niche though eh. Looks nice mind

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Rob1 said:


> https://levercraftcoffee.com/pages/ultra-grinder


Looks amazing, though again - very different price point to niche.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @kennyboy993 - Think both have 83mm burrs, Major uses the less aggressive ones whilst the Royal has the other types since it's motor is beefier.
> Major is 38cm tall no hopper, Royal is ~46cm so a fair bit bigger and weighs ~60lbs
> If you have space for a Royal then I reckon you would have room for an EK43s potentially...


Cheers - major it would be then, have limited height space

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> Rpm mainly in home use 990(Royal) vs 1440(Major)
> My kit is mounted on Royal but it is huge!!


You got one of these kits L&R - does it work well?

Can you move from grind setting to grind setting easily and does it make the royal viable for other grind options eg aeropress?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@kennyboy993 - How much height have you got to play with?

The Daniel Wong kits look good but need a puffer to blow the grinds through, the rocket ones are pretty long. Assuming you could get a shorter one or with a 90 degree nozzle. I reckon about 30-40g max in the throat.

It should make the retention really low, but I would expect you still need to purge a bit when going back to espresso just a smaller volume.

Wont be too far off my old SJ in terms of adjustment, I kept it set for espresso and used a hand grinder for Aeropress/v60 as it was just simpler that way since swapping settings wasn't 100% consistent.


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

You can switch easily between brew methods, all Mazzers have step-less ring adjustment.


----------



## JackHK (Aug 26, 2017)

I found this list online, almost completed uncompleted list on the SD in the marked









You can look the att pdf file

View attachment Single Dose Grinders - Electric2.pdf


----------



## johnealey (May 19, 2014)

Very much incomplete, no compak R series! 

John


----------



## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

https://www.option-o.com/shop/lagom-p64


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @kennyboy993 - How much height have you got to play with?
> The Daniel Wong kits look good but need a puffer to blow the grinds through, the rocket ones are pretty long. Assuming you could get a shorter one or with a 90 degree nozzle. I reckon about 30-40g max in the throat.
> It should make the retention really low, but I would expect you still need to purge a bit when going back to espresso just a smaller volume.
> Wont be too far off my old SJ in terms of adjustment, I kept it set for espresso and used a hand grinder for Aeropress/v60 as it was just simpler that way since swapping settings wasn't 100% consistent.


I'm on kitchen worktop under eye level cupboards so maybe 43cm in total. I need space l to be able to fill the throat with beans. I don't want to be moving the grinder every time I use it to get access to it.

I never grind more than 19g no matter brew method I'm using. I don't want to be purging at all - basically I want the workflow of the niche though am happy to use the blower as shown on the vid.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I like small machines next to a big grinder haha this is my throwback setup: Major with Daniel's kit plus Pav.


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@kennyboy993 - Ta, helps visualise it a lot better.

I think you would be hard pushed to dose and clear a 38cm Major in a 43cm gap. Maybe a SJ with the DW kit but it is only 64mm burrs? My SJ was just OK with a 45cm cabinet height and lens hood.

Looks like it would be either a Lagom P64, Santos Barista or the Ceado SD with 64mm burrs.

I have heard the Niche described as a "market disrupter" in terms of grind quality for size vs. price for single dosing. The flat burr single dosers which are small seem to be 2-6 times the price of it, not sure it currently has a rival at that price point to be honest.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Thanks monkey - is good info and food for thought.

I'll measure with more accuracy and see what options I have. SJ a possibility.

With no other niche owners reporting flattening of flavours I'll see if I can test my beans with another local niche owner also

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> Thanks monkey - is good info and food for thought.
> 
> I'll measure with more accuracy and see what options I have. SJ a possibility.
> 
> ...


 Unrelated... Do you still have the V?


----------



## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> Looks amazing, though again - very different price point to niche.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The price and ability to single dose is kind of main selling point of Niche. If you want big flat, well... you'll need to spend more or faff more.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

kennyboy993 said:


> More than double price of a niche though eh. Looks nice mind
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Not if you find an ex demo fir £400!


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Unrelated... Do you still have the V?


No - I've had a sage bambino for the last 7 months. For my usage profile I'm quite happy with it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Not if you find an ex demo fir £400!


You've got one?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

kennyboy993 said:


> You've got one?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yes and an vet pleased with it


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> Yes and an vet pleased with it


Ah - so teasing us with a grinder that isn't at niche price point....... but is for you. Thanks coffeechap! 

Enjoy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

kennyboy993 said:


> Ah - so teasing us with a grinder that isn't at niche price point....... but is for you. Thanks coffeechap!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 These bargains are there to be found


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

I'd also like to go large flat with Niche style work flow, I'd be happy to throw £1k at it plus the sale of the Niche. I'm also limited by height of 45cm but could potentially shuffle round and have it at the front and to the left of my Bianca giving me machine height of 45cm but clear above that for filling, but allowing a cupboard door to swing over it if that makes sense, it could't be too deep or wide though then.


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

What about Ceado E37SD sec hand, sorry for pointing other forum but this is my grinder that I will part soon as I have ordered Monolith

https://www.espressoman.ro/forum/Thread-For-Sale-Ceado-E37SD-SSP-HU-Burrs-fitted


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

coffeechap said:


> It's really good actually, for a small grinder, zero retention is achieved quite easily, plus I like the cut of the santos burrs


 what are the pros and cons of the santos? i couldn't find too much about it, save that it might need a few small mods. seems like a good option for those with fear of missing out on flat burs.... people like me.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

L&R said:


> What about Ceado E37SD sec hand, sorry for pointing other forum but this is my grinder that I will part soon as I have ordered Monolith
> 
> https://www.espressoman.ro/forum/Thread-For-Sale-Ceado-E37SD-SSP-HU-Burrs-fitted


 Would be nice but too risky buying from Bulgaria. If you spot anything in the UK please let me know. Tempted to buy a new one but the cheapest place is Crappy Italia.


----------



## Mr Binks (Mar 21, 2019)

richwade80 said:


> what are the pros and cons of the santos? i couldn't find too much about it, save that it might need a few small mods. seems like a good option for those with fear of missing out on flat burs.... people like me.


 Google is your friend.....

Santos Barista Coffee Grinder 01

Capacity 1kg
Dimensions 550(H) x 250(W) x 320(D)mm
Material Aluminium & ABS
Output 600W
Supplier Model Number 01BARA
Voltage 220V
Warranty 2 Years & 5 Years on the Motor (Parts Only)
Weight 14kg
Colour Black
Simple, direct dispensing of freshly ground coffee
Horizontal axis grinding discs with feeding screw
Stepless grinding adjustments: from extra fine to extra coarse
Precision grinding: Ø 63,5 mm grinding discs which are designed and manufactured by Santos for a high quality grinding, precise and fine
Powerful and reliable commercial induction motor
Average output: 14kg / hour

Also managed to pick mine up for less than a Niche................................. which was nice.

Even without the benefit of knowing 'people' who are useful the full price of circa £1200 is not exactly outrageous for the grinder you are getting. I love mine, small form factor, looks lovely, very easy to dial in, produces nice fluffy grinds (I've not had a single issue with clumping) and, as has been stated already, it has zero retention.


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

Nick1881 said:


> Would be nice but too risky buying from Bulgaria. If you spot anything in the UK please let me know. Tempted to buy a new one but the cheapest place is Crappy Italia.


 Hey Nick I am not a random guy, double boxed and insured should be fine.


----------



## Nick1881 (Dec 18, 2018)

L&R said:


> Hey Nick I am not a random guy, double boxed and insured should be fine.


 Ah sorry, I should have fully read what you wrote.

It's probably a bit more than I would want to spend on a used one, I imagine shipping will be expensive too. What condition is it in and how old?


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I will try to sell it locally and if not, will post an ad here in for sale section, still don't have Monolith though.

BR


----------



## Neo (Jun 24, 2008)

I am using a forte and usually i get pretty much everything i put in

occasionally i randomly lose 0.3-0.4g but I think that's because of popcorning. usually i either get all of it or maybe lose 0.1-0.2g tops


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Revisiting this as I'm a little tired of my Niche muting fruity and floral flavours - especially as I'm drinking more and more light roast these days.

I have 43cm to play with under the cupboards so looks like that rules out Major and anything bigger. Really like the Daniel Wong kit - would that work on a Super Jolly? Did I read correctly that a Super Jolly without hopper is approx 36cm? And what size burrs on it, big enough?

Open to any suggestions re any possible deals/swaps too - I can't afford to buy and keep the Niche so that would go. Any ideas/upcoming product becoming available @coffeechap ?


----------



## richwade80 (Aug 25, 2017)

please buy a santos barista (with the hopper off) and let me know how you get on....


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@kennyboy993 - I had an old SJ with octopus funnel, alignment was decent and replacement new OEM 64mm burrs.

Niche was still markedly better in the cup to my taste even with lighter roasts. Also much less of a faff to clean and did not need beans/weight in the throat to be consistent.

The Santos appears to be a nice option for single dosing, vertical burrs and a mini auger if I understand it correctly. Looking like that or a KafaTek tbh, if you want smaller flat burr single dosing with no hopper.

Edit: Or just get your kitchen cupboards raised as that with a Major and DW kit is still cheaper than a Max or EK43S Turkish... 😂


----------



## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

Wait a while. There will be some new models on the market towards the end of this year that tick all your boxes.


----------



## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Wait a while. There will be some new models on the market towards the end of this year that tick all your boxes.


 That will be interesting. It's what @coffeechap is looking to deliver I understand. Tho he's very particular


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @kennyboy993 - I had an old SJ with octopus funnel, alignment was decent and replacement new OEM 64mm burrs.
> 
> Niche was still markedly better in the cup to my taste even with lighter roasts. Also much less of a faff to clean and did not need beans/weight in the throat to be consistent.
> 
> ...


 Very interesting insight - thanks

With what you say plus black_cat comment maybe I'll wait it out a little longer.


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Wait a while. There will be some new models on the market towards the end of this year that tick all your boxes.





kennyboy993 said:


> Very interesting insight - thanks
> 
> With what you say plus black_cat comment maybe I'll wait it out a little longer.


 Let's see how many people will put their Niche for sale in 2021 then!  😂


----------



## Eklektik (Jun 19, 2020)

BlackCatCoffee said:


> Wait a while. There will be some new models on the market towards the end of this year that tick all your boxes.


Regarding something announced or are we being hush-hush? Personally I'm waiting on the new Titus grinders and more specifically the 75mm one, but that's 2021

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Northern_Monkey (Sep 11, 2018)

@Eklektik - Any idea on the price point for the Nautilus or do I need to decide which kidney is less vital based on his previous modded EKs?


----------



## Eklektik (Jun 19, 2020)

Northern_Monkey said:


> @Eklektik - Any idea on the price point for the Nautilus or do I need to decide which kidney is less vital based on his previous modded EKs?


Nautilus (98mm) will be around €3000 and €2400 for the 75mm, without VAT for those perfectly aligned SSP burrs


----------



## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

Yep, Nautilus approx €3k for 98mm. Currently in the wild being tested.

Does have and require a separate dc control box.

There will be initial testing results and report from user on Kaffeenetz imminently and then HB to follow on from Socratic coffee testing.

Like the Ceado E37Z it will have a very wide range of speeds.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

kennyboy993 said:


> Revisiting this as I'm a little tired of my Niche muting fruity and floral flavours - especially as I'm drinking more and more light roast these days.
> 
> I have 43cm to play with under the cupboards so looks like that rules out Major and anything bigger. Really like the Daniel Wong kit - would that work on a Super Jolly? Did I read correctly that a Super Jolly without hopper is approx 36cm? And what size burrs on it, big enough?
> 
> Open to any suggestions re any possible deals/swaps too - I can't afford to buy and keep the Niche so that would go. Any ideas/upcoming product becoming available @coffeechap ?


 Can you explain what you mean by muting? 
Are you sure it's the niche? Just I'm wondering as I'm currently using a fruity coffee with the JX pro, which should also suffer and the fruitiness definitely doesn't seem muted. 
But I found it was quite temp dependent and had to get up around the 94-95C to get the fruitiness to the fore


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

kennyboy993 said:


> Revisiting this as I'm a little tired of my Niche muting fruity and floral flavours - especially as I'm drinking more and more light roast these days.
> 
> I have 43cm to play with under the cupboards so looks like that rules out Major and anything bigger. Really like the Daniel Wong kit - would that work on a Super Jolly? Did I read correctly that a Super Jolly without hopper is approx 36cm? And what size burrs on it, big enough?
> 
> Open to any suggestions re any possible deals/swaps too - I can't afford to buy and keep the Niche so that would go. Any ideas/upcoming product becoming available @coffeechap ?


 Funny that. I'm also having Niche Blues. 😉 
there's another thread where the OP also mentioned this, and ended up buying a Eureka Olympus, 75mm flat burr!

Another chap here sold his and bought a Monolith Flat, for the same reason.

I've been online dating the Atom 75, but.... retention....

edit: @kennyboy993 -

https://www.coffeeforums.co.uk/topic/54499-help-with-niche-zero/?do=embed

Edit: also, @Black Cat Coffee mentioned there will be new grinders coming late this year which would be worth the wait. See post 57. 👍


----------



## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I've been online dating the Atom 75, but.... retention....


Just drink lots more coffee, problem solved


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Jason11 said:


> Just drink lots more coffee, problem solved


 Did you get any sleep? ???????????????????? (background: he just had a Niche delivered yesterday!)


----------



## Jason11 (Oct 25, 2019)

MediumRoastSteam said:


> Did you get any sleep?  (background: he just had a Niche delivered yesterday!)


Somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

TomHughes said:


> Can you explain what you mean by muting?
> Are you sure it's the niche? Just I'm wondering as I'm currently using a fruity coffee with the JX pro, which should also suffer and the fruitiness definitely doesn't seem muted.
> But I found it was quite temp dependent and had to get up around the 94-95C to get the fruitiness to the fore


Just flat - with all the non-coffee flavours kind of there but only just and in the background.

It happens with my aeropress too when using the niche.

I had the niche with my vesuvius for a while and was the same and now I have a sage bambino.

To be honest I've had the niche for so long now I've kind of forgotten what it's like to make a 'smack in your face' coffee at home - something I used to get regularly when i had an ECM HX and a k30 or even the little mignon before that.

It's now only when i visit a speciality shop do I get reminded.

So no I'm not 100% certain it's the grinder though I've been at this game for over 3 years now and all my senses are saying try another grinder

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

What about Ceado E6P it is small and can be used for SD if purging on top. I have one mint for sale.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I remember when people should pick up the odd kony and robust and e10 and swear how they crapped all over the small eurekas and super jilts, we seem to be in a circular phase now where any flat burr grinder is superior to a largish conical ,

not saying your experience isn't true Or valid at all, mine differs , and it doesn't mean it's right either . 
It talk to people who say the novelty and excitement of those early shots with a gaggia and a sj can't be matched again with ek at all, they dont think there older gear is better just memory and built experience can play funny trick sometimes .


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

That's so true and I often think that applies to me.

Even when I go to a shop (very rare now) and I get a different taste I'm not certain I've been seduced by the different surroundings, the different cup, water etc

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eklektik (Jun 19, 2020)

Two grinder set up is the answer, imo. I'm not parting with my Niche but I'm for sure getting a big flat to pair with it is all I'm saying

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

L&R said:


> What about Ceado E6P it is small and can be used for SD if purging on top. I have one mint for sale.


Hmm interesting. 64mm. Where are you based L&R?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

kennyboy993 said:


> That's so true and I often think that applies to me.
> 
> Even when I go to a shop (very rare now) and I get a different taste I'm not certain I've been seduced by the different surroundings, the different cup, water etc
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 One of my fav all the time shots was in a cafe , lever which was half knackered at that point , one group out of a two group working .

robur, with a light fruit bomb natural Ethiopian .

shortish shot pulled .


----------



## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Eklektik said:


> Two grinder set up is the answer, imo. I'm not parting with my Niche but I'm for sure getting a big flat to pair with it is all I'm saying
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 I totally agree. Unless you have both side by side, it will always be very difficult to make an objective judgement. Upgraditus and memory will play games with you... And the grass is aways greener. Hence why I don't want to just jump the gun. IMO, if you could keep the Niche and have a flat burr grinder, use them both at home and then let go one of them is the best thing to do, IMO.


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Ha oh yeah - I'll while I'm at it I'll get that DE1+ too!

Seriously though - I can't afford the kitchen space or the money. Otherwise I'd have a kafatek

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

kennyboy993 said:


> Just flat - with all the non-coffee flavours kind of there but only just and in the background.
> 
> It happens with my aeropress too when using the niche.
> 
> ...


 Yep I get what you mean.

I think it might be a personal thing too, taste is quite personal. Just look at coriander. To some (me) it tastes bitter/sweet, in a delicous way. 
To my wife (who has the genetic variant that's been identified) it tastes metallic and hideous!

So, maybe coffee tastes are more than just 'preference'?

Maybe, you have a certain taste receptor makeup that means you need fruit to come to the fore, and maybe in a way that others would find too much? So they say that the niche is fine, as they like a bit of fruitiness but not too much?

Maybe, you taste fruity sour as fruity sweet? To me I taste berries as more sour, than my wife for instance.

Just thoughts!


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

I get what you're saying Tom - though I'm talking about a change here....... I feel I used to be able to make the coffee I'm searching for - and I'm kinda getting more convinced the change is most likely to be grinder based.

Totally get what Boots is saying though - it's a bit like the first time (in our youth) we sampled something narcotic - it was never quite the same since the first try!


----------



## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

I have both a big flat a Ceado E37Z and a Conic, a Kafatek Monolith MC1. There is a huge difference to my palate between them when I side by side. The big flat is more transparent in that I get more obvious individual notes that i can pick out. I'd describe the Conic as homogenising flavours in direct comparison. I guess this would mean that an individuals sensitivities, as described, will have a bigger impact on their opinion.

It's only recently I am able to identify very specific flavours that align with roasters notes in espresso and that the ability to compare the grinders side by side has been quite helpful to me.

Maybe something that could be investigated and experienced on a forum day to broaden the experience for those interested. noting the current times make that kind of challenging


----------



## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Chainlinephil said:


> I have both a big flat a Ceado E37Z and a Conic, a Kafatek Monolith MC1. There is a huge difference to my palate between them when I side by side. The big flat is more transparent in that I get more obvious individual notes that i can pick out. I'd describe the Conic as homogenising flavours in direct comparison. I guess this would mean that an individuals sensitivities, as described, will have a bigger impact on their opinion.
> It's only recently I am able to identify very specific flavours that align with roasters notes in espresso and that the ability to compare the grinders side by side has been quite helpful to me.
> Maybe something that could be investigated and experienced on a forum day to broaden the experience for those interested. noting the current times make that kind of challenging


Yes my experience of flats vs conics is along similar lines - albeit slightly less exotic machinery!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Chainlinephil said:


> I have both a big flat a Ceado E37Z and a Conic, a Kafatek Monolith MC1. There is a huge difference to my palate between them when I side by side. The big flat is more transparent in that I get more obvious individual notes that i can pick out. I'd describe the Conic as homogenising flavours in direct comparison. I guess this would mean that an individuals sensitivities, as described, will have a bigger impact on their opinion.
> 
> It's only recently I am able to identify very specific flavours that align with roasters notes in espresso and that the ability to compare the grinders side by side has been quite helpful to me.
> 
> Maybe something that could be investigated and experienced on a forum day to broaden the experience for those interested. noting the current times make that kind of challenging


 For it to be useful , you need same beans made on same machines and tasted blind , otherwise it's just confirming people's purchase lead preferences imho.


----------



## Chainlinephil (Apr 5, 2020)

Mrboots2u said:


> For it to be useful , you need same beans made on same machines and tasted blind , otherwise it's just confirming people's purchase lead preferences imho.


Completely agree, which is what I had/have at home. it's night and day on mine to my palate. I've no axe to grind. 
I think my conic suits milk based drinks and the flat, espresso.
I don't drink long black as I revert to pourover for longer drinks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

