# EK43 'Barista'



## garydyke1

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=933886626666975

tongues wagging


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## The Systemic Kid

Very interesting.


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## jeebsy

Better get a move on for Host if all they have at this stage is an MS Paint mock-up.


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## Fevmeister

tease


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## garydyke1

Looking at the on/off dial. Looks not dissimilar from a ''spin speed'' dial.

Perhaps a super accurate grind setting dial too.

Portafilter holder looks 'interesting'


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## Xpenno

Very interesting indeed! Hopefully some real pics/vids will emerge from the show.


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## robashton

https://www.facebook.com/mahlkoenig...57335.216822795040032/933886626666975/?type=3

did I miss a memo or something?


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## MWJB

Yes


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## robashton

Oh


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## MWJB

Gary posted about an hour ago in the grinder forum.


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## dsc

Isnt the side dial a timer setting? They are showing it with a hopper and you will need a timer for that operation. Also a micrometer adjustment on the front it seems.

People have been moaning about not being able to use the EK in a cafe environment so Mahl slapped on some bits and will probably charge twice as much money for it









T.


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## The Systemic Kid

Nah, it's not a timer - it's a warp drive setting.


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## garydyke1

dsc said:


> Isnt the side dial a timer setting? They are showing it with a hopper and you will need a timer for that operation. Also a micrometer adjustment on the front it seems.
> 
> People have been moaning about not being able to use the EK in a cafe environment so Mahl slapped on some bits and will probably charge twice as much money for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T.


The standard EK comes with a huge hopper, obviously as it munches through a kilo in no time.

The mini hopper wont be so much use to a cafe ?


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## risky

Just saw this on Facebook. Very interesting indeed! Wonder how heavily Mr. Perger has been involved as he was recently at Ditting?

Also amazed they've managed to keep it so quiet.


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## dsc

Can you not run them on a timer?

T.


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## risky

Apparently Matt is presenting it.



> *WORLD PREMIERE OF MAHLKÖNIG's EK43 BARISTA*: Passionate coffee professionals, who still haven't found their perfect match, should take a close look on the prototype of this further development of MAHLKÖNIG's famous EK43. Combining the popular grinding technology of the EK43 with completely new technical features that no other grinder has ever offered before - such as an individual motor rotation setting and a multi-adjustable sieve holder support. The Australian barista Matt Perger, who has re-discovered the great performance spectrum of the EK43, will demonstrate the features of the new EK43 Barista live on stage.
> 
> Final sales launch of the EK43 Barista will be announced separately.


Oh and merged the other thread into this one.

Individual motor rotation = adjustable speed? Seems the article is poorly translated from German.


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## jeebsy

dsc said:


> Can you not run them on a timer?
> 
> T.


How accurate could a timer be in really quick grinders like this?


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## risky

jeebsy said:


> How accurate could a timer be in really quick grinders like this?


The peak is 1/100th of a second apparently.


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## dsc

Probably not very accurate, its also auger fed which might affect bean feed speed and output.

T.


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## garydyke1

Ive heard change of motor speed can affect extraction yield by 5%, with all else even. Slower or faster is the debate


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## jeebsy

So is the Clima Pro but just wondering if with a 1/100s timer a bulk grinder would be able to deliver (eg) 20, 20, 19.9, 20.2, 20, 20 consistently


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## garydyke1

risky said:


> The peak is 1/100th of a second apparently.


That would be a crazy manual dial


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## dsc

risky said:


> Apparently Matt is presenting it.
> 
> Oh and merged the other thread into this one.
> 
> Individual motor rotation = adjustable speed? Seems the article is poorly translated from German.


Maybe it allows single motor rotations? So you can get a very tiny amount ground if required? Kind of like a single hand crank.

Sieve attachment sounds interesting.

T.


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## garydyke1

jeebsy said:


> So is the Clima Pro but just wondering if with a 1/100s timer a bulk grinder would be able to deliver (eg) 20, 20, 19.9, 20.2, 20, 20 consistently


With a 2HP 7amp draw , lol


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## dsc

garydyke1 said:


> Ive heard change of motor speed can affect extraction yield by 5%, with all else even. Slower or faster is the debate


I'd say faster leads to more fines?

I'm pretty sure the big Hoff mentioned something about timers being useless on the EKs due to auger and power / speed. Also read reports of people not liking the Peak due to dosing issues?

T.


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## Xpenno

dsc said:


> I'd say faster leads to more fines?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the big Hoff mentioned something about timers being useless on the EKs due to auger and power / speed. Also read reports of people not liking the Peak due to dosing issues?
> 
> T.


I've heard conflicting stories on the speed from 2 highly regarded baristas. One says slower is better, one says faster is better. 5% is a big deal so I'm looking forward to seeing what it all results in.


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## risky

It's the clima pro vs. Kold thing all over again?


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> I've heard conflicting stories on the speed from 2 highly regarded baristas. One says slower is better, one says faster is better. 5% is a big deal so I'm looking forward to seeing what it all results in.


5% extra is only a big deal if it tastes any good , depend what your adding the 5 % too ( 18 20 22 ? )


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## garydyke1

Mrboots2u said:


> 5% extra is only a big deal if it tastes any good , depend what your adding the 5 % too ( 18 20 22 ? )


I'm excited . Imagine if you can get 5% higher from a much coarser easier-to-deal-with grind


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## Mrboots2u

garydyke1 said:


> I'm excited . Imagine if you can get 5% higher from a much coarser easier-to-deal-with grind


Ah , now we are getting somewhere ...coarser grind, less micro channeling, more even extraction , tastier ....


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> 5% extra is only a big deal if it tastes any good , depend what your adding the 5 % too ( 18 20 22 ? )


Rephrase, it's a big deal to have the option to increase EY by 5%.


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> Ah , now we are getting somewhere ...coarser grind, less micro channeling, more even extraction , tastier ....


Think it might be other other way round from my conversation. Shot time sped up by 9 seconds, EY increased by 5%. Only change was rotation speed of burrs. No idea if it was delicious or not.


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## 4085

I am so excited by this......


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## dsc

garydyke1 said:


> I'm excited . Imagine if you can get 5% higher from a much coarser easier-to-deal-with grind


How would a coarser grind allow a 5% higher extraction rate?

T.


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> I am so excited by this......


That's really great to hear . Enthusiasm is a good thing . I assumed you would be , as normally you like discussing the ins and outs of grinders


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## 4085

Mrboots2u said:


> That's really great to hear . Enthusiasm is a good thing . I assumed you would be , as normally you like discussing the ins and outs of grinders


Sorry, I thought I was on the Wallpaper hangers forum that I often read, discussing the introduction of a new paste. Inadvertently, I had not realised that I had changed forums.....apologies to all


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## Mrboots2u

dfk41 said:


> Sorry, I thought I was on the Wallpaper hangers forum that I often read, discussing the introduction of a new paste. Inadvertently, I had not realised that I had changed forums.....apologies to all


Please stay we value your input .....


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## The Systemic Kid

Mrboots2u said:


> Please stay we value your input .....


Wow, the forum's doing automated replies!


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## Mrboots2u

The Systemic Kid said:


> Wow, the forum's doing automated replies!


Sorry i thought I was logged into the wallpaper forum too


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## jeebsy

Discussion on speed here:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?15355-EK-43-Grind-Speed/


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## Xpenno

dsc said:


> How would a coarser grind allow a 5% higher extraction rate?
> 
> T.


Courser grinds usually result in more even particle size, this in turn results in a more even extraction and a more even extraction should result in a higher EY.


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## Mrboots2u

dsc said:


> I'd say faster leads to more fines?
> 
> I'm pretty sure the big Hoff mentioned something about timers being useless on the EKs due to auger and power / speed. Also read reports of people not liking the Peak due to dosing issues?
> 
> T.


I think perger is trying to Promote fines above all else . Hence the sieve


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## jeebsy

dfk41 said:


> Sorry, I thought I was on the Wallpaper hangers forum that I often read, discussing the introduction of a new paste.


I need some wallpaper hung, I have one offer, which I know you will not accept, but I will make it anyway, will you hang my wallpaper for a bag of 10p mix


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> I think perger is trying to Promote fines above all else . Hence the sieve


Please elaborate?


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Please elaborate?


You told me that . Didn't you ?

Or stuff the same size - sweating the small stuff ... Perhaps i dreamt it


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## jeebsy

Could sieve be a translation of filter, ie filter holder/portafilter? I don't think it's an actual sieve.


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> Could sieve be a translation of filter, ie filter holder/portafilter? I don't think it's an actual sieve.


Who the Christ knows . I've got a collander under mine anyway ...


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## Mrboots2u

I'd bet it's for a sieve tho


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## jeebsy

Mrboots2u said:


> I'd bet it's for a sieve tho


That's where you're going wrong, wear the colander on your head, keeps the bad signals out



Mrboots2u said:


> Who the Christ knows . I've got a collander under mine anyway ...


a multi-adjustable sieve holder support

Definitely a portafilter which has been lost in translation.


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## garydyke1

Even wallpaper distribution is very important to tasty looking decor


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> That's where you're going wrong, wear the colander on your head, keeps the bad signals out
> 
> Won't fit over my bucket tho


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## jeebsy

I like what you've done with your hair


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## Mrboots2u

jeebsy said:


> I like what you've done with your hair


What -glued someone else's onto my bucket ? That took me ages to harvest - sorry get ( wrong forum again I think )


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## dsc

Xpenno said:


> Courser grinds usually result in more even particle size, this in turn results in a more even extraction and a more even extraction should result in a higher EY.


In general or on the EK? You should see a coarse grind on a conical, might as well use a blade grinder What I had in mind is that you need to be at a certain grind level to achieve the correct extraction, going coarser will create less fines and speed things up, so EY would drop right?

What I dont get is why not get rid of fines altogether? They slow down espresso extractions so help in a way, but if you chuck then out and overall grind finer surely you could get to a point where things slow down because the entire puck is the right size?

Btw a sieve will stop coarser bits and let fines through, which means everything you want in the basket will be on the sieve and not coming through the sieve.

T.


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## Xpenno

Mrboots2u said:


> You told me that . Didn't you ?
> 
> Or stuff the same size - sweating the small stuff ... Perhaps i dreamt it


He thought fines were key to high EYs. He didn't like sieves. I presume it's a basket holder in this case.


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> He thought fines were key to high EYs. He didn't like sieves. I presume it's a basket holder in this case.


" I'm constantly changing my views on fines. At the moment, I'm pretty sure they're the most important and significant part, so it's better to get rid of boulders rather than fines."

Sieve ?


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## dsc

Makes sense then to have a sieve, its probably coarse enough to stop big particles and let everything else through into the basket.

T.


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## MWJB

I don't think it matters much which way you go to get the most even distribution, easier to go finer (Perger was saying sieve out anything bigger than 500um). The guy from Hemro (Christian?) said that the Tanzania could do a very even grind & high EY, but at a much coarser setting than EK.

Coarser & more even, without fines, would probably require a much lower pressure to extract in a short-ish shot, otherwise you'll be getting lungos/coffee shots.

Socratic coffee have pulled some preliminary shots with isolated grind sizes with massive differences in shot time, for a 1:2 ratio, between 300um (6sec), 250um (8sec) & 180um (87sec).

Nevertheless, I'm with Jeebsy's translation theory.


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## MWJB

Grinders with a sieve mesh aren't new though, Technivorm do some.


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## Mrboots2u

Yeah I'm beginning to think the sieve thing may be cak handed German .... Might be a fun addition tho


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## jlarkin

It's definitely an adjustable PF holder, they use the word on the German site Siebträgerauflage which is found on other pages for coffee grinders and funnily enough Google transflate even correctly called it a portafilter holder...


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## tambu

I watched a Tamper Tantrum recently featuring Christopher Hendon - I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, as I can sum it up as "we haven't a clue what grind size and shape do to cup profile, but it does something". One thing though is that it does perhaps emphasize surface area more than I have seen in the past, so maybe people are finally less obsessed with "size".

It's presumably a lot easier to grind to a consistent size if you go very very fine - so maybe high pressure, turkish with sieved out boulders is the way to go. In fact, isn't that how Nespresso works...?


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## 4085

jeebsy said:


> I need some wallpaper hung, I have one offer, which I know you will not accept, but I will make it anyway, will you hang my wallpaper for a bag of 10p mix


You will be overpaying me...I promise! Still least you would not ask again!


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> I don't think it matters much which way you go to get the most even distribution, easier to go finer (Perger was saying sieve out anything bigger than 500um). The guy from Hemro (Christian?) said that the Tanzania could do a very even grind & high EY, but at a much coarser setting than EK.
> 
> Coarser & more even, without fines, would probably require a much lower pressure to extract in a short-ish shot, otherwise you'll be getting lungos/coffee shots.
> 
> Socratic coffee have pulled some preliminary shots with isolated grind sizes with massive differences in shot time, for a 1:2 ratio, between 300um (6sec), 250um (8sec) & 180um (87sec).
> 
> Nevertheless, I'm with Jeebsy's translation theory.


I'm currently experimenting with re-grinding and I need to grind super fine in order to get normal speed shots. This tells me I'm either getting finer but in a more consistant fashion or somewhere in the process I'm loosing fines / boulders. I'm now starting to think lower pressure would probably change things for the better...

T.


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## MWJB

tambu said:


> It's presumably a lot easier to grind to a consistent size if you go very very fine - so maybe high pressure, turkish with sieved out boulders is the way to go. In fact, isn't that how Nespresso works...?


According to James Hoffmann's peek into a lungo Nespresso capsule 80% of the grinds were over 500um, so not really in the typical Turkish range.


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## tambu

MWJB said:


> According to James Hoffmann's peek into a lungo Nespresso capsule 80% of the grinds were over 500um, so not really in the typical Turkish range.


That's an interesting post! Link for anybody else:

http://www.jimseven.com/2015/05/21/an-analysis-of-nespresso-part-i/

He doesn't seem to have written up part ii yet unfortunately.


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## dsc

MWJB said:


> According to James Hoffmann's peek into a lungo Nespresso capsule 80% of the grinds were over 500um, so not really in the typical Turkish range.


Doesn't Nespresso get extracted / pushed through just a few holes as opposed to multiples like on a normal machine basket? I'm thinking that if it was true Turkish it was simply choke and not produce anything.

T.


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## Fevmeister

dsc said:


> Doesn't Nespresso get extracted / pushed through just a few holes as opposed to multiples like on a normal machine basket? I'm thinking that if it was true Turkish it was simply choke and not produce anything.
> 
> T.


Many holes but no where near as many as a espresso machine basket.

Perhaps 20-30?

The outer foil wrap is perforated by 'teeth' that the coffee 'beverage' is then extracted through


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## dsc

I thought water needles come through the top (12-16 holes) and coffee comes out the bottom (3 holes)? Or are the capsules used upsidedown so the above is inverted?

Nice way to go from EK discussion to Nespresso

T.


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## Fevmeister

Nope its the other way round I believe

Thought it is a while since I've used one! You're probably correct on the amount of holes, I reassess that 20-30 is far too many!


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## MWJB

The shortest brew ratios for Nespresso are ~4:1, going up to ~17:1 (brewed territory)...so it logically suggests to me that they are grinding on the coarser side of typical espresso. They are easily hitting high extractions without overextracting too...except for the lungos at 110ml (bitter).

It may seem an out of place discussion compared to speciality & EK-43, but they've done their homework & made their system consistent & hard to screw up.


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## Terranova

It looks like this EK has a volumetric dosing integrated.

An adjustable grind speed gives another parameter to change the whole grind profile which has an impact on extraction and flow rate.

A faster grind speed doesn't mean automatically that it produces more fines at higher speeds.

Like already mentioned by Mr.boots it's boulders what it's all about and not fines.


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## risky

Terranova said:


> It looks like this EK has a volumetric dosing integrated..


Where are you getting that from? Although granted the adjustable portafilter holder looks set up that way, and lack of dosing system is a major drawback to using the ek for spro in a commercial environment which I'm presuming is who they are targeting with this.


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## Terranova

It is obvious by design and you mentioned it "the PF holder wouldn't make sense otherwise".

A timer doesn't work with the EK and even a 500RPM drop in speed doesn't make that big of a difference in g/sec.

It would be still to fast for proper adjustments.

Volumetric is more accurate (regarding combination of speed and burr size of the EK) in particular because the EK is not really forgiving on less quality roasts with different screen size beans like robusta and darker roasts in general.


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## risky

Hold on a minute, maybe I've confused myself here, but you (and others) are saying a timer wouldn't work on the EK, so how does the volumetric dosing you're talking about work exactly?

Also, I really hope that prototype picture is a very early draft, the way the legs are bolted on like that is horrendous.


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## jeebsy

With volumetric dosing the beans only come into contact with the burrs when you dispense a dose. The motor won't necessarily run for a fixed amount of time but the amount ground is determined by the dose dropped in.

Traditional timers work with beans loaded up and by running the motor for say 6.45 seconds. They're predictable enough that in that time you'll get 18.0 grams out each time. The EK is too fast to run timed like that.


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## Terranova

risky said:


> Also, I really hope that prototype picture is a very early draft, the way the legs are bolted on like that is horrendous.


Imho also the normal EK looks "fugly".

In the speciality coffee scene only the output and workflow counts.

"bling" or design is not so important.

I am sure the grinder will be in the 3k€ price range, so it is not really made for home users who depend on the "woman acceptance factor" although there will be some home enthusiasts in this niche market for sure.

I am sure that this grinder will be sold out for a long time and I doubt that there exists anything better for the target group.


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## risky

jeebsy said:


> With volumetric dosing the beans only come into contact with the burrs when you dispense a dose. The motor won't necessarily run for a fixed amount of time but the amount ground is determined by the dose dropped in.
> 
> Traditional timers work with beans loaded up and by running the motor for say 6.45 seconds. They're predictable enough that in that time you'll get 18.0 grams out each time. The EK is too fast to run timed like that.


Are there other grinders already on the market that use this dosing system rather than a timer?


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## jeebsy

Versalab, Five Elephant make an aftermarket volumetric EK doser (James W has one on his EK), think Terranova uses them too?


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## Terranova

jeebsy said:


> Versalab, Five Elephant make an aftermarket volumetric EK doser (James W has one on his EK), think Terranova uses them too?


Lets put it this way, we lent a dosing tool at the Amsterdam coffee festival to Five Elephant, they felt in love with it and distributed it for us.

The volumetric dosing system was invented by the pharma industry, modified by Versalab and again optimized by us in particular for the EK43 and triple dosing for the EKK43.


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## dsc

Terranova said:


> The volumetric dosing system was invented by the pharma industry, modified by Versalab...


Still Versalab were the first ones to use this on a coffee grinder.

I still cannot see how volumetric dosing is integrated in the new EK. Feel free to point it out on the 3D render though.

T.


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## risky

dsc said:


> I still cannot see how volumetric dosing is integrated in the new EK. Feel free to point it out on the 3D render though.
> 
> T.


This is what I was getting at, when I thought they were talking about a timed doser I could see how it would work, push the portafilter in etc. But this volumetic dosing we are talking about requires some adjustable, moving aperture to limit the volume of beans that can enter the burr chamber. Looks like the hopper just feeds straight in so not sure where this is being implemented, unless they are using the auger to control this in some way?


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## Terranova

dsc said:


> Still Versalab were the first ones to use this on a coffee grinder.


That is right, good observation but also they didn't reinvent the wheel and implemented the DRM burr set / copied the hybrid geometry for their own grinder.









The EK Barista will be introduced on Friday, I am sure you don't mind waiting 2 days.


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## garydyke1

It will never be accurate enough. Best to weight dose and Chuck it in


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## Terranova

garydyke1 said:


> It will never be accurate enough. Best to weight dose and Chuck it in


The volumetric dosing unit is more accurate than the variance of standard grinding with the EK43.


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## @3aan

I did last Monday a test with volumetric dosing with the Versalab M3,

sorry it is in Dutch on Thuisbarista.nl http://www.thuisbarista.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4992 >


Target weight is 18 grams

Papercups 5.31 grams average

Bean average = 17.99 grams


Re: Volumetrisch doseren van hele bonen, een korte test Re: Volumetric feeding of whole beans, a short test.

  door *@3aan* » 19 Okt 2015, 14:01

In de doseerschuiven van de Versalab zit ook wel een minimale afwisseling wat het gewicht betreft, maar dat zijn geen grammen, voor elke bonensoort moet je de dosis weer afstemmen door vulringen te gebruiken (Bushings) en dat werkt redelijk, zie het testje van Burundi bonen

Ik heb het in papieren bekertjes gewogen op de acaia schaal, eerste getal is het gramgewicht van de inhoud het tweede getal van de beker in grammen, heb wel de tarra-functie gebruikt van een 5,3 beker, streefgewicht 18 gram.

17.9 - 5.3

17.9 - 5.3

17.9 - 5.3

17.9 - 5.3

17.8 - 5.2

18.0 - 5.3

18.1 - 5.4

18.3 - 5.4 doser ging iets moeilijker, boontje gebroken. Doser got a bit difficult, bean broken.

18.0 - 5.3

18.1 - 5.3

Boongemiddelde 17.99

Bekergemiddelde 5.31

Deze uitslag is geheel boven mijn verwachting, ik vindt het eigenlijk steengoed.









Thanks to Google translation;

In the dosing slides of the Versalab is also minimal variation in terms of weight, but they are not grams, for every kind of bean you have to adjust the dose again by using shims (bushings) and it works reasonably, see test with Burundi beans.

I have it in paper cups weighed on the scale acaia first number is the gram weight of the contents the second number of the cup in grams, but have used the tare function of a 5.3 cup goal weight 18 grams.

================================

Bean Average 17.99

Average 5:31 Cup

This result is entirely beyond my expectation, I find it really smashing good.


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## robashton

Back to black uses the 5e volumetric doser for the EK and finds it more consistent than things like the k30

only problem after that is heat dissipation


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## jeebsy

robashton said:


> only problem after that is heat dissipation


What's this?


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## robashton

Just saying that it heats up Jeebsy.

---

(See, I can do snarky replies too







)

---

Nah - just, the EK does get a bit warm over time and doesn't cool down very quickly either - we were talking about this at the weekend with Patrick because he's got a twin-hopper varient of the doser but realistically in a busy cafe you'd be better off with two EKs.

As we make the EK more efficient for service, we run into limits with its initial design not being built for that - the EK43 Barista which we know nothing about at all and may well have something to help with this, being much more efficient for service will still be quite limited in a busy cafe environment (none of the specialty places in Glasgow really count as a busy cafe environment though)


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## jeebsy

Was just wondering as it's not really something i've heard mentioned before. Warm is good, more even grinding (#pocketscience). Given the EK is designed to be turned on and then run for up to 45 minutes at a time warm is more likely its natural condition. As conditions change it will need adjusted like most grinders on the market.


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## Xpenno

jeebsy said:


> Was just wondering as it's not really something i've heard mentioned before. Warm is good, more even grinding (#pocketscience). Given the EK is designed to be turned on and then run for up to 45 minutes at a time warm is more likely its natural condition. As conditions change it will need adjusted like most grinders on the market.


Maxwell from C&S did a couple of blog posts on it

https://colonnaandsmalls.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/grinding-the-dark-matter-of-coffee-a-think-piece/

https://colonnaandsmalls.wordpress.com/2015/02/03/the-heat-is-on-more-grinding-puzzles/

Chris Hendon also has a scientific paper coming out which will discuss this in some detail I believe.

If you feel coffee ground with EK it's usually warm, even on a single dose, even if it's not warm before it was ground. The grinding process generates heat from the friction and this in turn will change the temp of grind chamber. The more you grind the warmer the inside of the EK gets and the more you will need to change your settings. In a shop you may also see and effect from beans getting naturally warmer thought the day as the shop warms up. The combination of the two factors can result in significant change in grind setting, I think Maxwell mentions up to an entire big notch on the EK dial.

I think the main point for me is that neither warm or cold is necessarily better but they result in different beverages unless you adapt the grind setting to cater for it, as you point out, even then they may taste different due to a different particle size distribution.


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## robashton

jeebsy said:


> Was just wondering as it's not really something i've heard mentioned before. Warm is good, more even grinding (#pocketscience). Given the EK is designed to be turned on and then run for up to 45 minutes at a time warm is more likely its natural condition. As conditions change it will need adjusted like most grinders on the market.


I've done cuppings of different temp beans and preferred "room temp", Perger wants his frozen for more fine production. Let's settle with "different" for sale of argument because there is a bit of subjectivity around goals and extraction targets. Stable is possibly a goal, keeping control of your spro definitely is.

practically, even with well adjusted new burrs there isn't a heap of play to manage increasing temps is all I'm saying - this can be a problem depending on your bean choice.


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## Terranova

Sorry everybody for some confusion.

There is no volumetric dosing on the EK43 Barista.

Still weight and grind.

You can take the silver cone off to reduce retention, grind speed profiling between 400RPM-1600RPM or so.


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## Terranova




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## jeebsy

Can't believe they managed to make it look as bad in real life as it did in the picture


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## risky

jeebsy said:


> Can't believe they managed to make it look as bad in real life as it did in the picture


Yup, absolutely boggin'.

Needs some serious TLC from Specht or the likes to get it looking nice.

I'm guessing the dial on the side adjusts the spin speed, so what's with the two dials on the front? One looks like it has a fairly course scale, the other is quite fine?

Also, that power switch, what on earth! The one on the normal EK looks bad enough.


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## jeebsy

It doesn't look real. Looks like something out of GTA


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## dsc

risky said:


> Yup, absolutely boggin'.
> 
> Needs some serious TLC from Specht or the likes to get it looking nice.
> 
> I'm guessing the dial on the side adjusts the spin speed, so what's with the two dials on the front? One looks like it has a fairly course scale, the other is quite fine?
> 
> Also, that power switch, what on earth! The one on the normal EK looks bad enough.


It's probably like a multiturn pot, so the smaller dial also slowly spins the outside dial, its a bit like a decimal point, with the main number on the outside and the decimal on the inside.

T.


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## risky

dsc said:


> It's probably like a multiturn pot, so the smaller dial also slowly spins the outside dial, its a bit like a decimal point, with the main number on the outside and the decimal on the inside.
> 
> T.


Makes sense I suppose, albeit it seems a bit of an unnecessary complication unless it is allowing for finer grind adjustments?


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## Terranova

There is a 2nd on / off switch at the front underneath, it seems practical.

The 2nd dial knob is a 2nd fine thread for micro adjustment, not sure if this is really needed.

Burrs are nearly the same with another pre break zone. (3rd)


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## dsc

It probably does, you can have 10 turns per bigger turn for example, assuming a single big turn is your standard EK 'click' that increases resolution greatly.

T.


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## robashton

So it's basically a giant geek toy, but without volumetrics most people aren't going to want one for shop use


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## Tewdric

Giant geek toy is good. When's the raffle?


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## robashton

#grindbyweight ?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/657589128159105025


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## jlarkin

Oooohhhhhh


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## robashton

Need to see a video, but this sounds interesting


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## dsc

Someone should be sacked for that god-awful "Barista" font on the side sticker.

As for grind by weight this is finally something which makes sense, closed loop control with weight being the feedback, how it should be done in my opinion. I'm guessing there's a load cell somewhere which allows for weight testing, in principle it's rather easy to implement, but residual coffee is always an issue in this type of operation (hopper, timed / weight checked).

T.


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## Terranova

Here is another one, speed goes till 1800RPM it makes pretty much of a mess imho.

They were cleaning the tray every 2-3 shots.

Inside (from undernath) still retaining grounds, it will be available in late spring next year for around 3k€.


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## Xpenno

dsc said:


> Someone should be sacked for that god-awful "Barista" font on the side sticker.


Agreed, I personally think the whole thing looks ugly. They've messed with the proportions and it looks strange now. I suppose if it delivers above any beyond the EK today then looks are not going to be a reason not to buy one.


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## Xpenno

That said, it'll probably look right at home next to my Vesuvius


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## jeebsy

The thing I like about the EK is that you can go spro, cupping, Chemex, spro, spro, Brazen with different beans no hassle. If you've got a hopper full of beans chopping and changing isn't an option.


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## dsc

Apparently true 'Barista's (with a funky font) only go spro. Bro.

T.


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## Xpenno

dsc said:


> Apparently true 'Barista's (with a funky font) only go spro. Bro.
> 
> T.


Could be worse, comic sans......


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## Viernes

Terranova said:


> Here is another one, speed goes till 1800RPM it makes pretty much of a mess imho.
> 
> They were cleaning the tray every 2-3 shots.
> 
> Inside (from undernath) still retaining grounds, it will be available in late spring next year for around 3k€.


And grounds falls right into the PF? How it copes with the static?? I don't trust it too much ¬¬

BTW the normal EK have 1 second resolution, I don't think there is any need to add another adjustment.


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## Terranova

Viernes said:


> And grounds falls right into the PF? How it copes with the static?? I don't trust it too much ¬¬
> 
> BTW the normal EK have 1 second resolution, I don't think there is any need to add another adjustment.


The 2nd fine adjustment is also imho nonsense.

Adjustable speed is pretty cool though and for me personally the only really cool change. (Many others are following)

Looks like the new one will retain more grounds than the old EK.

You can take the silver funnel of pretty easy but it made a mess.

They will make some changes before the final release.


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## risky

I'm confused, Frank are you saying this doesn't have the grind by weight system?


__
http://instagr.am/p/9L6ATWoWVc/


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## Terranova

risky said:


> I'm confused, Frank are you saying this doesn't have the grind by weight system?
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/9L6ATWoWVc/


No weight system at all on this one.


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## risky

Terranova said:


> No weighting system at all on this one.


So what grinder has grind by weight then? Apart from the Vario-W apparently.


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## robashton

Agh - has Perger done his thing yet? The sooner we have a video of somebody using this thing and saying what it does or doesn't have the better - I want to know if my EK is still worth anything!


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## risky

robashton said:


> Agh - has Perger done his thing yet? The sooner we have a video of somebody using this thing and saying what it does or doesn't have the better - I want to know if my EK is still worth anything!


Looks like grind by weight is a feature of the Peak.


__
http://instagr.am/p/9OUoqYoWdZ/

So this new EK only seems to have variable speed and potentially finer adjustment of the grind.


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## Xpenno

risky said:


> Looks like grind by weight is a feature of the Peak.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/9OUoqYoWdZ/
> 
> So this new EK only seems to have variable speed and potentially finer adjustment of the grind.


Yup, peak can do grind by weight, there is a video somewhere on Facebook of it in action. The stuff on the ek is just a portafilter holder.


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## risky

The photo we were looking for


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## Mrboots2u

Xpenno said:


> Yup, peak can do grind by weight, there is a video somewhere on Facebook of it in action. The stuff on the ek is just a portafilter holder.


I linked it in the " peak of grinding " thread earlier


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## Xpenno

risky said:


> The photo we were looking for


Am I missing something? What does it show us? Apart from the fact that it doesn't look great of course


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## risky

The wee placard telling you what's actually new. Think that was cut off before.


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## Xpenno

risky said:


> The wee placard telling you what's actually new. Think that was cut off before.


Ah got you.

Boots, you got a link to that video we were looking at earlier. Shows some of the detail.


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## Xpenno

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1078475472165199&id=100000082689527


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## jlarkin

Matt Perger confirmed Grind by Weight is an a unit that can be added to any grinder. Specifically saying: Emphasis on any grinder. Didn't give more deets than that.


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## mazi

Are there any new information on prices and the market launch?


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## risky

Interestingly just came across this post from HB from March last year. No sources to support the claim.



> They just announced a new improvement to the EK that gives a finer adjustment for the knob. Apparently the knob itself is bigger, and there's 10 steps between each major setting. It will come stock on all new EK's, and there's a simple retrofit for older models soon to be available.


Did this happen, and is there a slightly newer EK, or I wonder if this idea evolved into the EK Barista, or if the possibility to retrofit still exists.


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## mrsimba

Sure it will be an epic grinder but christ its fugly!

The mix of polished & satin steel, the red... the wooden tray... the feet! & did I mention the red...

If you tried to make it look like a 6th form project on a very limited budget you couldn't have done any worse!

If its a 'prototype' then it should have stayed at that & stayed in the factory till finished. if that in any way resembles the finished product its simply aesthetically awful!!!


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## garydyke1

risky said:


> Interestingly just came across this post from HB from March last year. No sources to support the claim.
> 
> Did this happen, and is there a slightly newer EK, or I wonder if this idea evolved into the EK Barista, or if the possibility to retrofit still exists.


Yes, its simply a newer dial with more increments


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## risky

Ah I see. Wonder if this new system is retrofittable though, whether mahl intend it or not.


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## Xpenno

risky said:


> Interestingly just came across this post from HB from March last year. No sources to support the claim.
> 
> Did this happen, and is there a slightly newer EK, or I wonder if this idea evolved into the EK Barista, or if the possibility to retrofit still exists.


I think they made the clockface on the front more detailed, could be that. I'm using a 3fe dial which does a very good job. I don't need it any more accurate than I have it as I'd be messing too much


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## Xpenno

risky said:


> Ah I see. Wonder if this new system is retrofittable though, whether mahl intend it or not.


It's a sticker so it should be retrofittable.


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## risky

Xpenno said:


> It's a sticker so it should be retrofittable.


I mean the new double knob on the barista.


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## Xpenno

risky said:


> I mean the new double knob on the barista.


Fair enough, I don't think that's the same thing HB were talking about though. Could be wrong









I can't think of any reason which the new knob or portafilter mount would not be easy to retrofit to an existing ek providing they kept the sizes the same which I imaging they did. The actual grind looks the same just a different from and mounting stand.

I made a similar nozzle to the one on this new ek and it was a nightmare so I'm keen to see what they've done to combat static etc...

My guess is they quickly knocked something up at the last minute to take too the show


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## mazi

I am scratching my head. How will you make a notes to dial set up. The big one goes up to 80 and small one is +-6.

This is fail :-(


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## risky

mazi said:


> I am scratching my head. How will you make a notes to dial set up. The big one goes up to 80 and small one is +-6.
> 
> This is fail :-(


I imagine, 4.25, 7.68 for example?


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## mazi

Big one has 80 notches and small one +-60.

So it could be 15+25 or 10-35???

Or just to make a note to big dial and small one is for bean age, weather,...


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## dsc

As you rotate the small one the big one rotates slowly as well, at least that's how multiturn knobs work on multiturn pots. So you'd have say 60+5 (60 big turns and 5 small ones) or 21+4 (21full turns and 4 small ones) etc. The small knob is like a decimal number although only goes up to 6 so can be a bit confusing.

T.


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## Terranova

Wy not wait for the new Mazzer ZM Filter ?

Will be on the market at the same time like the EK Barista.


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## risky

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?27375-Mazzer-ZM-Filter

Nobody seems interested, probably because it has a Mazzer badge


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## malling

Who wants Mazzer when they can get the real deal in Mahlkonig and Compak


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## peterpan

Hi,

anyone ever heard if it's possible to use an EG43 (originally intended for grinding cereal) for espresso?

Thank you,

Br


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## The Systemic Kid

Doubt it - would guess burr geometry not set up for fine grinding.


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## peterpan

If that is the case, could the burr set be replaced with the EK43?

http://www.mahlkoenig.com/us_products/EG-43.html#data-box

Grain has to be ground pretty fine as well, but I'm no expert how that compares with espresso.


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## The Systemic Kid

Have a look at  this. l The EK/EG series of grinders use the same motor and components with different burr sets depending on what the particular material/substance is being ground. The manual makes clear that burr sets should only be used for the designated substance - EG for cereals - EK for coffee. You could change the burr set on an EG therefore and insert some coffee burrs but you would also probably need to change the pre-breaker as well adding to the cost. A set of burrs for the EK cost around £350 plus VAT. If you can pick up an EG very cheaply it might be worth considering.


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