# Lelit Mara X returned after 2 days :(



## Steve0183

I'm feeling totally gutted at the moment.

I used to use a espresso machine made by Swan and after a lot courage I decided to buy a Mara X.

I was really excited when it arrived but after 2 days it has failed and needs to go back to Bella Barista.

The technician says a temperature sensor and valve needs replacing.

They have been really understanding so I'm glad I've bought it from them. But it is a worry after only owning it for 2 days.

I can't wait to get it sent off Monday and get it back again to start making coffee.


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## MonkeyHarris

Steve0183 said:


> I'm feeling totally gutted at the moment.
> 
> I used to use a espresso machine made by Swan and after a lot courage I decided to buy a Mara X.
> 
> I was really excited when it arrived but after 2 days it has failed and needs to go back to Bella Barista.
> 
> The technician says a temperature sensor and valve needs replacing.
> 
> They have been really understanding so I'm glad I've bought it from them. But it is a worry after only owning it for 2 days.
> 
> I can't wait to get it sent off Monday and get it back again to start making coffee.


 I feel your pain. There's another thread where 3 of us had to return ours to get new temp sensors fitted.

Very dissapointed with Lelit not picking up on this.


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## Steve0183

MonkeyHarris said:


> I feel your pain. There's another thread where 3 of us had to return ours to get new temp sensors fitted.
> 
> Very dissapointed with Lelit not picking up on this.


 I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Because I'm very new to making my own espresso I thought I had done something wrong.

Basically I heard the pump turn on then the steam needle went all the way round into the brew pressure side. Then it suddenly dropped and the water refil light came on.

I thought I had run it dry but there was half a tank of water still. It was then I noticed all the water over the counter.

Now whenever you turn it on it just pumps water out from behind the front panel somewhere. I think the technition said there is some kind of valve or something behind it.

Like I say Bella barista so far have been top notch. They say they will upgrade both the parts at their cost. It's just a pain with the inconvenience and the last thing you expect on a 2 day £1000 machine lol


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## Iamsami

How disappointing! I feel your pain, hope they get it fixed and back to you ASAP.


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## BlackCatCoffee

I wouldn't let it put you off, just one of those things. Bella Barista will look after you.


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## Steve0183

BlackCatCoffee said:


> I wouldn't let it put you off, just one of those things. Bella Barista will look after you.


 Haa haa I've spent too much money for it to put me off.

What I have learnt before it failed is that making the perfect espresso is a lot harder than I first thought it would be.

I'm hoping after lockdown I may be able to find someone near myself to show me where I go wrong 🤣


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## KingoftheHeath

Steve0183 said:


> Haa haa I've spent too much money for it to put me off.
> What I have learnt before it failed is that making the perfect espresso is a lot harder than I first thought it would be.
> I'm hoping after lockdown I may be able to find someone near myself to show me where I go wrong


Where are you?


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## HDAV

Steve0183 said:


> Haa haa I've spent too much money for it to put me off.
> 
> What I have learnt before it failed is that making the perfect espresso is a lot harder than I first thought it would be.
> 
> I'm hoping after lockdown I may be able to find someone near myself to show me where I go wrong 🤣


 Being a barista is a skill, that's why Starbucks have vending machines


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## Rincewind

HDAV said:


> Being a barista is a skill, that's why Starbucks have vending machines


 ooow that was cruel, true but cruel lol :classic_laugh:


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## HDAV

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> ooow that was cruel, true but cruel lol :classic_laugh:


 That would be my signature but that would cost £15 a year......


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## MediumRoastSteam

I agree with @Rumpelstiltskin - (See, I just clicked the "Mention" button, one of the perks of the Bronze membership) - In all seriousness... I use the forum a lot. It has become much more stable and reliable recently. I use the For Sale thread, and, since I've been a member pretty much (2014???), I've always donated a few quid around Christmas time. Now I can donate and get some perks. Seems a good thing for me! @HDAV


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## Steve0183

KingoftheHeath said:


> Steve0183 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haa haa I've spent too much money for it to put me off.
> What I have learnt before it failed is that making the perfect espresso is a lot harder than I first thought it would be.
> I'm hoping after lockdown I may be able to find someone near myself to show me where I go wrong
> 
> 
> 
> Where are you?
Click to expand...

 I live near Framlingham in Suffolk


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## Rincewind

MediumRoastSteam said:


> ...I use the forum a lot. It has become much more stable and reliable recently. I use the For Sale thread...


 Agreed, more stable....i also like it; makes me smile which keeps me sane....not unlike the CTC (Cycling UK), i had to walk away from that forum; shame really. I'm a great believer of "if something is good and brings enjoyment" then i'll gladly pay for said enjoyment....social media need not apply.


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## Steve0183

Rumpelstiltskin said:


> Agreed, more stable....i also like it; makes me smile which keeps me sane....not unlike the CTC (Cycling UK), i had to walk away from that forum; shame really. I'm a great believer of "if something is good and brings enjoyment" then i'll gladly pay for said enjoyment....social media need not apply.


 That's really ironic, to walk away from a cycling forum😂


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## Rincewind

touche' 👏


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## DavecUK

I find the giphy integration a lot of fun, mention button is super handy. The ignore thread button tempts me every day but of course I can't use it. 😇


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## itguy

Steve0183 said:


> I'm feeling totally gutted at the moment.
> 
> I used to use a espresso machine made by Swan and after a lot courage I decided to buy a Mara X.
> 
> I was really excited when it arrived but after 2 days it has failed and needs to go back to Bella Barista.
> 
> The technician says a temperature sensor and valve needs replacing.
> 
> They have been really understanding so I'm glad I've bought it from them. But it is a worry after only owning it for 2 days.
> 
> I can't wait to get it sent off Monday and get it back again to start making coffee.


 Oh dear, that's not good. As you probably know there are two temperature sensors in the MaraX and there are people on here who have had failures on either one. I don't think anyone has had them both fail yet.

It must be a dodgy batch that Lelit has had in.

I had my steam temperature sensor replaced last week and my machine is working great again now - but my symptoms were inconsistent steaming / boiler pressure rather than an over pressure situation like you.

BB will sort you out, don't worry. They will refund any return courier costs if you ask them to (they bill Lelit!).

When I spoke to Martin last week he said that they have sold over 300+ MaraX and he has replaced 5 temp sensors so far (mine included). Sounds like yours will be the 6th. I know they have been talking to Lelit about it too as being a wider problem and if there is anything else that can be done in the future.

Sorry to hear you're having problems but they will sort it for you I'm sure.


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## zellleonhart

Steve0183 said:


> Basically I heard the pump turn on then the steam needle went all the way round into the brew pressure side


 HI Steve, I feel you, I am facing the exact issue as yours and my machine is 3 weeks old. Just sent my unit back to my reseller and hopefully it's solved.

I hope you get your machine back soon, other than this issue which seems to affect recent units (mine is Oct 2020 production), the Mara X is a joy to use.

While I feel equally gutted, I did not regret buying the Mara X and I hope the issue will be gone for good.


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## Eamo

I am a complete newbie to this home barista wallet depleting mid life excursion so be gentle. After ordering the Mara x from BB all I saw were these problems and was kinda regretting it but it arrived and it was beautiful. Had it for a for a week or so now and touch wood all ok other than after switch on day 3 or 4 the steam pressure went to around 2.5 and stuck there. Took a lot of steam to bring it down and now it seems fine, although, as a newbie, not sure if the resting pressure of 1 is about right or should be more in the 1.2 - 1.5 range. Am using "brew mode" I think - still confused to be honest. On another subject, I am still manually grinding having been let down by a company (not BB) on my order for a Sette 270 (bought and paid for but 2 days later advised there was a stock problem and they didn't have any in after all and didn't know when back in stock). This may be a blessing in disguise and or costly order as now looking at Eureka Specialita - any thoughts on this choice would be welcome as my tennis elbow ridden elbows (never played a game in my life) are in a right state.


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## itguy

Yes I agree, however it is clear that Lelit have changed the design (/style) of the temperature probe for the steam/boiler temperature in the MaraX since it was in prototype and early production models. The model that @DavecUK tested and also was shipped in the first batches to 1st Line Equipment in the US all have a combined level sensor and temperature probe. Fast forward to the batches of machines that we're using today (mine was built Sept 20) and these components are now separate.

Clearly I don't know why they changed it - cost, supply chain issues, reliability, serviceability etc I have no idea. What is evident from all of my internet searching is that no-one reported any issues online anywhere with the combined level probe/temp sensor that I have found. Only with the separate units.

This says to me that it's likely it is either a poorly specified unit for the machine or a bad batch in the factory.


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## itguy

Eamo said:


> I am a complete newbie to this home barista wallet depleting mid life excursion so be gentle. After ordering the Mara x from BB all I saw were these problems and was kinda regretting it but it arrived and it was beautiful. Had it for a for a week or so now and touch wood all ok other than after switch on day 3 or 4 the steam pressure went to around 2.5 and stuck there. Took a lot of steam to bring it down and now it seems fine, although, as a newbie, not sure if the resting pressure of 1 is about right or should be more in the 1.2 - 1.5 range. Am using "brew mode" I think - still confused to be honest. On another subject, I am still manually grinding having been let down by a company (not BB) on my order for a Sette 270 (bought and paid for but 2 days later advised there was a stock problem and they didn't have any in after all and didn't know when back in stock). This may be a blessing in disguise and or costly order as now looking at Eureka Specialita - any thoughts on this choice would be welcome as my tennis elbow ridden elbows (never played a game in my life) are in a right state.


 Welcome to the MaraX club!

If your resting temperature is around or just under 1bar in brew mode, that seems about right depending on what temperature setting you have it on behind the drip tray. I use mine mostly on '0' setting for temperature and my testing temp is usually about 0.75-0.8bar. It is normal for the machine to get right up to 3bar when heating up but then it should fall gradually down to the resting normal temp.

Re the Specialita, yes, great choice. I bought one from BB when I got my MaraX and found it very good indeed. I have now moved on to a Niche as I didn't really want the hopper fed system on the Specialita, and the Niche is easier in this respect. The Specialita is a very quiet and competent grinder, you won't go wrong with it.


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## Eamo

itguy said:


> Welcome to the MaraX club!
> 
> If your resting temperature is around or just under 1bar in brew mode, that seems about right depending on what temperature setting you have it on behind the drip tray. I use mine mostly on '0' setting for temperature and my testing temp is usually about 0.75-0.8bar. It is normal for the machine to get right up to 3bar when heating up but then it should fall gradually down to the resting normal temp.
> 
> Re the Specialita, yes, great choice. I bought one from BB when I got my MaraX and found it very good indeed. I have now moved on to a Niche as I didn't really want the hopper fed system on the Specialita, and the Niche is easier in this respect. The Specialita is a very quiet and competent grinder, you won't go wrong with it.


 Thanks itguy - I am reassured and feeling more confident. Have the temp set to 0 too. My elbows can't wait for a Niche but yes my lad is banging on about it all the time - suggested he gets up before 1pm to manually grind my beans at 6am and he has unsurprisingly gone quiet on the subject!


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## Steve0183

itguy said:


> Oh dear, that's not good. As you probably know there are two temperature sensors in the MaraX and there are people on here who have had failures on either one. I don't think anyone has had them both fail yet.
> 
> It must be a dodgy batch that Lelit has had in.
> 
> I had my steam temperature sensor replaced last week and my machine is working great again now - but my symptoms were inconsistent steaming / boiler pressure rather than an over pressure situation like you.
> 
> BB will sort you out, don't worry. They will refund any return courier costs if you ask them to (they bill Lelit!).
> 
> When I spoke to Martin last week he said that they have sold over 300+ MaraX and he has replaced 5 temp sensors so far (mine included). Sounds like yours will be the 6th. I know they have been talking to Lelit about it too as being a wider problem and if there is anything else that can be done in the future.
> 
> Sorry to hear you're having problems but they will sort it for you I'm sure.


 Yes the guy at BB was really helpful and informative. Certainly no issues with BB.

I don't really know much about the machines but he mentioned changing the temperature sensor and some sort of cheap valve, which is why the water is coming out?

Apparently while the machine is a good machine and majority of it is made to high standards in Italy, there are a few components that are outsourced from other countries that don't meet the same standards. With Covid, things have not been helped as demand has also increased dramatically by people like me getting into espresso. So instead of only a few units being sold there are now hundreds lol.


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## DavecUK

Steve0183 said:


> I don't really know much about the machines but he mentioned changing the temperature sensor and some sort of cheap valve, which is why the water is coming out?
> 
> Apparently while the machine is a good machine and majority of it is made to high standards in Italy, there are a few components that are outsourced from other countries that don't meet the same standards.


 There is no cheap valve, I can think of, and as far as I am aware the parts are all sourced in Italy. If you mean water is coming out into the drip tray, that's normal when doing a shot, and you can mod it so the expansion valve vents back to the inlet side of the pump....or as I have done back to the tank (I couldn't do the mod the other way as my test machine would have gone too far from spec).

In fact all the componentry in the machine is of good quality, especially considering the price and the expansion valve is easy to adjust. Just did mine last week to 9 bar.


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## Will OBrien

I have to say I am disappointed to read this and the other posts about recent problems. I had pretty much decided to buy this machine but have doubts now. I don't really want the hassle of returning it if found to be faulty on arrival or the anxiety of wondering whether it will develop a fault over the first weeks/months of ownership. I know hundreds have been sold without issue, and these things do happen, but it's a lot of money for me to spend on a coffee machine and I don't want to regret it! Would you still recommend it?


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## Doram

DavecUK said:


> the expansion valve is easy to adjust. Just did mine last week to 9 bar.


 You can't just say that without explaining, @DavecUK (or is it one of your nifty experiments dropping important information in tucked away places to see how the little mice react)? 😂

So what exactly did you do and why?

The machines gauge is stock set to 10.5 against a blind filter, but some suggest this translates to 9 bar at the group. Is that not true?

Did you lower the pressure so that the machine gauge shows 9 bar against a blind basket? What is the effect of that? And most importantly - should us disciples follow?


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## zellleonhart

A short update on my case, my retailer did some checks and he changed the solid state relay. It doesn't shoot up to 2.5 bar anymore during the warm up (he said it shouldn't go beyond 2 bar even during warm up).

I told him that the Mara X should ramp up to 2.5bar to quickly warm up on X mode, but he said still, it should be cap at 2 bar max. I am not sure how true but I'll test further when I receive my machine back. Hopefully it is solved for good.


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## itguy

Will OBrien said:


> I have to say I am disappointed to read this and the other posts about recent problems. I had pretty much decided to buy this machine but have doubts now. I don't really want the hassle of returning it if found to be faulty on arrival or the anxiety of wondering whether it will develop a fault over the first weeks/months of ownership. I know hundreds have been sold without issue, and these things do happen, but it's a lot of money for me to spend on a coffee machine and I don't want to regret it! Would you still recommend it?


 You could always have an open conversation with Bella Barista about it and ask them to test the machine more thoroughly than they usually would pre-delivery or even to pre-empt a problem with the sensor and change it prior to shipping? With the amount they have done now they must be starting to think the same too... Martin in the technical team is the man who knows all about the issues.


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## itguy

zellleonhart said:


> A short update on my case, my retailer did some checks and he changed the solid state relay. It doesn't shoot up to 2.5 bar anymore during the warm up (he said it shouldn't go beyond 2 bar even during warm up).
> 
> I told him that the Mara X should ramp up to 2.5bar to quickly warm up on X mode, but he said still, it should be cap at 2 bar max. I am not sure how true but I'll test further when I receive my machine back. Hopefully it is solved for good.


 Personally, I don't think he is right on the max pressure during warm up - there are videos online from Lelit Insider on YouTube showing a timelapse warm up of a MaraX in brew priority mode, going all the way up to 3 bar and then back down.


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## zellleonhart

itguy said:


> Personally, I don't think he is right on the max pressure during warm up - there are videos online from Lelit Insider on YouTube showing a timelapse warm up of a MaraX in brew priority mode, going all the way up to 3 bar and then back down.


 Yes I also watched the same video. I don't want to argue with him, so I will test for myself afterwards. As far as I know the relay shouldn't change the controller's programming so in theory it should still ramp up to whatever pressure it's meant to.


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## thawhat

Been following these threads closely to see other peoples problems... I received my Mara X (September production) mid November last year from BB and all was good until a couple of weeks in where I went to pull a shot when I woke up (on timer to turn on about 30-45 mins before I wake up) and my pressure was on 1.5 bar and the heating element was on... I left it for a further 10-15 mins to see if it sorted itself out and it kept oscillating down to 1.2 bar then heating element would kick in back up to 1.5. lifted lever to see if the obvious would happen... yup, super heated bubbling brew water. Tried the suggestion from the main Mara X thread about pulling 500ml through the group upon turning on to relieve any air in the system and that seemed to work for a couple of days but then same problem developed again.

Ever since this problem started it won't stay idle for longer than a couple of mins... machine does it's warm up cycle and then seems to never settle... oscillates between 0.7-1.5 bar with the heating element coming on at regular intervals and if it does drop to 0.5-0.7 (normally after the first coffee and letting it settle for 15 mins) it only stays there for a few minutes and then the heating element kicks in and pushes it right back to 1.5 bar. It's hit and miss with boiling water, sometimes its a short gurgle, sometimes no bubbling/gurgling at all and sometimes 1-3 seconds of bubbling. I've tried all 3 temp settings and it does the same. I'm 110% in BTP mode aswell.

I know that the extended guide states that oscillation is normal within them pressure ranges but mine seems to constantly move or stops at high pressures for prolonged periods. I've got a group thermometer coming so I can see if it is affecting my brew temps or not before I raise the issue with BB. If it doesn't affect it then I'll ignore what the gauge is doing and plod on 😂


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## DavecUK

Doram said:


> 1. You can't just say that without explaining, @DavecUK (or is it one of your nifty experiments dropping important information in tucked away places to see how the little mice react)? ????
> 
> 2. So what exactly did you do and why?
> 
> 3, The machines gauge is stock set to 10.5 against a blind filter, but some suggest this translates to 9 bar at the group. Is that not true?
> 
> 4. Did you lower the pressure so that the machine gauge shows 9 bar against a blind basket? What is the effect of that? And most importantly - should us disciples follow?


 1. I had not changed the pressure before because it would simply dump more water in the drip tray if it hit any really resistant pucks, so I didn't bother I was also too lazy to reroute the pipe.

2. I rerouted expansion valve flow my way because I have to keep a test bed machine as close to stock as I can, I can also monitor the flow rate if I ever need to. Re-routing pump output to input is fine for you guys (it's why I suggested it)...but not for me, because I test stuff. I simply made a small groove in the tank for the pipe to enter and temporarily removed the handle (it just clips off, I only need one handle to get the tank started on it's way out). The pipe comes directly from the expansion valve and I simply used a small length of tube with something blanking it off few cm, to cap off the other end of the brass fitting inside. The vac breaker and steam valve still vent to the drip tray.










3. No that's not true...don't know where people get these funny ideas

4. Yes I lowered the pressure against a blind basket. I don't need to worry about the water expansion factor affecting readings as they do on rotary pumped machines...because there is no check valve and a sealed system against an expansion valve set to 12 or 13 bar for water expansion to affect the readings. So you can adjust to 9 bar and know that pressure is the maximum that can be applied to the puck....cos your expansion valve is set to 9 bar, it's physically impossible for it to go higher. I've used many machines at 10 bar including this one...but I do like my machines to be 9 bar average, unless they are profilers and then I'm happy for pressure to peak above 9 bar for perhaps 25% of the shot...but it does depend on the profile I want.

Otherwise I just like mine at 9 bar....your welcome to do the same if you want.

Please remember when I test a machine I really have to test them as they are going to be delivered to customers....that's just the way it is. It wouldn't be fair if I changed everything and then reviewed it!


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## itguy

thawhat said:


> Been following these threads closely to see other peoples problems... I received my Mara X (September production) mid November last year from BB and all was good until a couple of weeks in where I went to pull a shot when I woke up (on timer to turn on about 30-45 mins before I wake up) and my pressure was on 1.5 bar and the heating element was on... I left it for a further 10-15 mins to see if it sorted itself out and it kept oscillating down to 1.2 bar then heating element would kick in back up to 1.5. lifted lever to see if the obvious would happen... yup, super heated bubbling brew water. Tried the suggestion from the main Mara X thread about pulling 500ml through the group upon turning on to relieve any air in the system and that seemed to work for a couple of days but then same problem developed again.
> 
> Ever since this problem started it won't stay idle for longer than a couple of mins... machine does it's warm up cycle and then seems to never settle... oscillates between 0.7-1.5 bar with the heating element coming on at regular intervals and if it does drop to 0.5-0.7 (normally after the first coffee and letting it settle for 15 mins) it only stays there for a few minutes and then the heating element kicks in and pushes it right back to 1.5 bar. It's hit and miss with boiling water, sometimes its a short gurgle, sometimes no bubbling/gurgling at all and sometimes 1-3 seconds of bubbling. I've tried all 3 temp settings and it does the same. I'm 110% in BTP mode aswell.
> 
> I know that the extended guide states that oscillation is normal within them pressure ranges but mine seems to constantly move or stops at high pressures for prolonged periods. I've got a group thermometer coming so I can see if it is affecting my brew temps or not before I raise the issue with BB. If it doesn't affect it then I'll ignore what the gauge is doing and plod on 😂


 Hmmm, I wonder if you have a problem with the HX temperate probe. There are others on here who have had issues with it too. My MaraX can sit at around 0.75 bar for hours at a time without changing temp - just like it has settled in to exactly what temp it needs to be at to keep the group at what it expects. If your HX temp probe is faulty or misreading then it might be thinking that the HX/group temp isn't right (ie too low) thus boosting.

I presume there is no evidence of any leaks? I only ask because obviously if there is HX water going through the group or leaking, thus introducing colder water into the HX then it would boost for steam as it will have thought you'd have brewed.


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## Steve0183

DavecUK said:


> There is no cheap valve, I can think of, and as far as I am aware the parts are all sourced in Italy. If you mean water is coming out into the drip tray, that's normal when doing a shot, and you can mod it so the expansion valve vents back to the inlet side of the pump....or as I have done back to the tank (I couldn't do the mod the other way as my test machine would have gone too far from spec).
> 
> In fact all the componentry in the machine is of good quality, especially considering the price and the expansion valve is easy to adjust. Just did mine last week to 9 bar.


 Sorry I'm not very knowledgeable in the inner workings of espresso as I'm very new to it all.

Apparently behind the front panel of the machine there is some kind of valve or something and that is faulty which means the moment you turn it on the pump comes on and water floods the work surface as it comes out from behind the panel not the pressure release thing that's over the drip tray.

All I know is the technician said that a temperature sensor may need replacing with a cost value to them of around £20 and they would upgrade with a much better and expensive sensor just to be on the safe side.

They also said that what ever the valve thing is behind the panel needs replacing which at cost to them is around £40 and they would fit one worth around £100.

They are adiment the machine is an excellent machine built to very high standards, it was just these two parts that let it down. He said they are in talks with lelit and they will invoice them for the replacement parts.

Like I've mentioned from the beginning and I'll say it again encase someone jumps to the last post without reading the others, the technician at BB has been very very helpful and gone into detail with the issues rather than hiding them and say send it back.

Because of his honest opinion I trust what he has said, in that the machine is excellent and have no worries about the rest of the quality of the machine.

I'm glad that I bought it from a reputable retailer and I just can't wait for it to be sorted which will hopefully be next week 👍🤗


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## MediumRoastSteam

Doram said:


> The machines gauge is stock set to 10.5 against a blind filter, but some suggest this translates to 9 bar at the group. Is that not true?


 I think this "concept" is back from the Gaggia Classic days. If you google "adjusting Gaggia Classic Pressure" you'll see lots of people saying that 10bar static (i.e: against a blind filter) equates to 9bar dynamic (i.e.: when brewing coffee) in the group . True or not I don't know, never tested, don't have the equipment to test either. So, like the majority of people, I at least believed everything I read, specially at HomeBarista - I was young then 😂 - and just accepted that is a fact. Or is it? Who knows.

What I did as I grew into the espresso journey was to adjust things by taste. You can always try and adjust the OPV to 9bar on the gauge - that's all you can easily measure unless you have equipment to measure at the group - and see if you notice a difference in taste. There was one post here, from @Garfield - which shows a different on the machine's manometer and at the group. He could taste the difference, had the machine verified, found out that the pressure was way to high at the group and then adjusted accordingly. It might be his machine gauge is faulty, as the pressure on the gauge now reads much lower. The important thing is that the coffee for him tastes great, and that's all it matters.


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## thawhat

itguy said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if you have a problem with the HX temperate probe. There are others on here who have had issues with it too. My MaraX can sit at around 0.75 bar for hours at a time without changing temp - just like it has settled in to exactly what temp it needs to be at to keep the group at what it expects. If your HX temp probe is faulty or misreading then it might be thinking that the HX/group temp isn't right (ie too low) thus boosting.
> 
> I presume there is no evidence of any leaks? I only ask because obviously if there is HX water going through the group or leaking, thus introducing colder water into the HX then it would boost for steam as it will have thought you'd have brewed.


 Yeah It's definitely temp sensor/probe related. No leaks, checked since day one for any. I thought exactly what you're thinking, hence why I've opted to get a group thermometer so I can monitor temps over a prolonged period. Hopefully my temps are still stable but I have a gut feeling they won't be. At least I'll have some evidence to send over to BB if it goes that way.


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## Steve0183

Will OBrien said:


> I have to say I am disappointed to read this and the other posts about recent problems. I had pretty much decided to buy this machine but have doubts now. I don't really want the hassle of returning it if found to be faulty on arrival or the anxiety of wondering whether it will develop a fault over the first weeks/months of ownership. I know hundreds have been sold without issue, and these things do happen, but it's a lot of money for me to spend on a coffee machine and I don't want to regret it! Would you still recommend it?


 I'm not going to deny it is a faff sending it back to be repaired, but realistically it is no more faff than sending it away to be serviced. It's just a year too early 😂.

In my opinion everything you buy nowadays has a week spot and will never be 100%. It's the warranty support you get that makes the difference.


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## Doram

MediumRoastSteam said:


> I at least believed everything I read, specially at HomeBarista - I was young then 😂 - and just accepted that is a fact. Or is it? Who knows.


 That is indeed where I read it - Home Barista! 🤣

I think someone said they measured 9 at the group when the manometer read 10.5. This was tempting to believe, as it would explain why the machine isn't showing the magic 9 bar.

At some point I will probably try to adjust the OPV, or get a flow control kit. It's nice to have more things to try and to look forward to.


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## cuprajake




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## zellleonhart

DavecUK said:


> No that's not true...don't know where people get these funny ideas


 @DavecUK Regarding this, I once watched this video (it's an 8 years old video though) 



 (1:32 onwards) and he said that due to the weaker vibration pump, they need to set the pressure higher to 10-11 bar to compensate (no idea for what); unlike the professional machines with a rotary pump.

To what extent is this true? I am tempted to lower the pressure to 9 bar too.


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## DavecUK

zellleonhart said:


> @DavecUK Regarding this, I once watched this video (it's an 8 years old video though)
> 
> 
> 
> (1:32 onwards) and he said that due to the weaker vibration pump, they need to set the pressure higher to 10-11 bar to compensate (no idea for what); unlike the professional machines with a rotary pump.
> 
> To what extent is this true? I am tempted to lower the pressure to 9 bar too.


 *It is not true at all and is a basic misunderstanding of science, hydraulics and mechanics. *He mentioned it's because of flow rate 35ltre per hour vrs 120+ ltre per hour....but that is not relevant when an espresso puck passes no more than 120ml per minute or 7.2l per hour. The capacity of a vibration pump to push fluid e.g. 10.8 litre per hour at 9 bar is well above the flow rate needed for espresso. In fact it's not even that simple because as the pressure is ramping the flow rate is much higher, when it reaches 9 or 10 bar, the actual flow required through the puck is markedly less at around 48ml per minute, or less than 2.9l per hour (so 3.5 times less than the pumps actual capacity). If this wasn't true, no water would flow out of the expansion valve vent tube at 9 bar.

This sort of stuff was one of the reasons I got into helping manufacturers improve their machines...I prefer to use science to help design what will work.

I think he may well have just been giving any explanation to justify what they do.. but in reality it would actually make things worse as the flow rate drops dramatically at higher pressures. Check out the Ulka E5 (covers EX5 and EL5) pump curves. The flow rate of the pump almost halves between 9 and 11 bar!

*Lower the pressure to 9 bar if you want, it will all be good.*


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## SimonHillier

I had this issue recently, re: temperature sensor / probe.

Resolved this morning with a spare part sent to me from Martin (very helpful) at Bella Barista.

I was given the option of fixing myself rather than going through the rigmarole boxing up snd sending it back.

It took 20mins with a screwdriver, 17mm spanner and 2mm hex (Allen) key. Most of that time was spent removing the top fascia and outer casing.

Back to making lovely espresso and flat whites without the steam train noises!

I love the Mara X, a bit step up from the Silvia, just awaiting a Niche Zero now due to land in March.


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## Steve0183

SimonHillier said:


> I had this issue recently.
> 
> Resolved this morning with a spare part sent to me from Martin (very helpful) at Bella Barista.
> 
> I was given the option of fixing myself rather than as n going through the rigmarole of sending back.
> 
> It took 20mins with a screwdriver, 17mm spanner and 2mm hex (Allen) key. Most of that time was spent removing the top fascia and outer casing.
> 
> Back to making lovely espresso and flat whites without the steam train noises!
> 
> I love the Mara X, a bit step up from the Silvia, just awaiting a Niche Zero now due to land in March.


 Sadly I'm still waiting on my machines return.

I'm just having to survive with instant coffee in the meantime 😭


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## SimonHillier

I feel for you Steve, I could see that in these strange times it might take a while to turn around.

The machine was perfect when I first got it in mid December. Started making the steam escape noises intermittently after a few weeks but would back off a bit a sometimes not happen at all.

Then it got worse so I got in touch with the supplier who was very helpful.

I hope yours is returned to you soon, it's a great machine.


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## Steve0183

SimonHillier said:


> I feel for you Steve, I could see that in these strange times it might take a while to turn around.
> 
> The machine was perfect when I first got it in mid December. Started making the steam escape noises intermittently after a few weeks but would back off a bit a sometimes not happen at all.
> 
> Then it got worse so I got in touch with the supplier who was very helpful.
> 
> I hope yours is returned to you soon, it's a great machine.


 Cheers, fingers crossed it will be next week. As long as it's back for the 8th Feb then I'll be happy as I have an entire week of interviews to complete over Microsoft teams. 😂

It's annoying it being gone, but I would rather they kept it as long as they need to ensure that when I get it back its fully working haa haa.


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## Doram

SimonHillier said:


> I had this issue recently, re: temperature sensor / probe.
> 
> Resolved this morning with a spare part sent to me from Martin (very helpful) at Bella Barista.
> 
> I was given the option of fixing myself rather than going through the rigmarole boxing up snd sending it back.
> 
> It took 20mins with a screwdriver, 17mm spanner and 2mm hex (Allen) key. Most of that time was spent removing the top fascia and outer casing.
> 
> Back to making lovely espresso and flat whites without the steam train noises!
> 
> I love the Mara X, a bit step up from the Silvia, just awaiting a Niche Zero now due to land in March.


 Glad you got it sorted! Would you mind posting a picture and description of the part you replaced? Was it the temp probe (at the bottom of the boiler, or top)? What exactly was the problem? This could be very useful for anyone experiencing something similar.


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## Burnzy

Will OBrien said:


> I have to say I am disappointed to read this and the other posts about recent problems. I had pretty much decided to buy this machine but have doubts now. I don't really want the hassle of returning it if found to be faulty on arrival or the anxiety of wondering whether it will develop a fault over the first weeks/months of ownership. I know hundreds have been sold without issue, and these things do happen, but it's a lot of money for me to spend on a coffee machine and I don't want to regret it! Would you still recommend it?


 Honestly?? YES! - i returned my first one after two days with some weird issue. But BB sent me a brand new one next day and its not missed a beat for 7 months.

I had my concerns, to be honest i felt sick with worry that i had made the wrong choice. But Lelit do know what they are doing, like someone said with brand new models we are beta testing, and they will iron stuff out.

Just get it from somewhere like BB and you'll have no worries (and its so easy to box up) despite the odd issues that some people and i have experienced i don't have any regrets buying the MaraX. Buy with confidence my friend, for £1000 its a-lot of machine


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## Steve0183

Great news my mara x is coming back to me tomorrow yayyyyy.

The work sheet says they replaced a temperature probe and a lelit control unit, whatever they do 😂

Can't wait to drink some decent coffee rather than instant 🥺


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## Rincewind

Steve0183 said:


> ...Can't wait to drink some decent coffee rather than instant...


 Excellent....it must've been like torture having to drink instant lol.....hope you enjoy having it back :classic_smile:


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## Dallah

DavecUK said:


> There is no cheap valve, I can think of, and as far as I am aware the parts are all sourced in Italy. If you mean water is coming out into the drip tray, that's normal when doing a shot, and you can mod it so the expansion valve vents back to the inlet side of the pump....or as I have done back to the tank (I couldn't do the mod the other way as my test machine would have gone too far from spec).
> 
> In fact all the componentry in the machine is of good quality, especially considering the price and the expansion valve is easy to adjust. Just did mine last week to 9 bar.


 Before I purchased my MaraX from BB I had an exchange with Claudette about concerns I had about the failure rate of this machine. Claudette said that it was down to failures caused by "Chinese parts." I can send you the email. I know that she isn't the tech at the company, but surely the largest dealer of prosumer Lelit machines in the UK should know something about what she is selling. She put it down to the surge in demand during lockdown causing manufacturers and parts manufacturers to take their eye off the quality ball. Also perhaps Italian components manufacturers may not have been able to scale up production therefore some components coming from China now.

Am I concerned? With almost a week with MaraX, I am so impressed by the quality of the machine and the quality in the cup that even if some components do come from China, I just don't care. If I was really concerned about parts provenance I would have bought a Fracino. (Pause for effect) No I didn't think so. Plus in the post Brexit world, the Italians are just as "foreign" as the Chinese. Actually worrying if parts come from China may be borderline systemic racism. Change my mind.


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## DavecUK

@Dallah can't change your mind, I have no problems with Chinese stuff, it can be very well made.

I agree that some have a predujiced view based on some shoddy stuff made and sold for a much cheaper price than it should be.


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## Steve0183

Well it arrived this afternoon so I had a play dialing in my grinder etc.

After a while I managed to get my timings correct and abducted my first decent coffee with a lovely creme.

All in all i am really happy. I'm really pleased with the machine and with what coffee it is producing 😊


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## thawhat

thawhat said:


> Been following these threads closely to see other peoples problems... I received my Mara X (September production) mid November last year from BB and all was good until a couple of weeks in where I went to pull a shot when I woke up (on timer to turn on about 30-45 mins before I wake up) and my pressure was on 1.5 bar and the heating element was on... I left it for a further 10-15 mins to see if it sorted itself out and it kept oscillating down to 1.2 bar then heating element would kick in back up to 1.5. lifted lever to see if the obvious would happen... yup, super heated bubbling brew water. Tried the suggestion from the main Mara X thread about pulling 500ml through the group upon turning on to relieve any air in the system and that seemed to work for a couple of days but then same problem developed again.
> 
> Ever since this problem started it won't stay idle for longer than a couple of mins... machine does it's warm up cycle and then seems to never settle... oscillates between 0.7-1.5 bar with the heating element coming on at regular intervals and if it does drop to 0.5-0.7 (normally after the first coffee and letting it settle for 15 mins) it only stays there for a few minutes and then the heating element kicks in and pushes it right back to 1.5 bar. It's hit and miss with boiling water, sometimes its a short gurgle, sometimes no bubbling/gurgling at all and sometimes 1-3 seconds of bubbling. I've tried all 3 temp settings and it does the same. I'm 110% in BTP mode aswell.
> 
> I know that the extended guide states that oscillation is normal within them pressure ranges but mine seems to constantly move or stops at high pressures for prolonged periods. I've got a group thermometer coming so I can see if it is affecting my brew temps or not before I raise the issue with BB. If it doesn't affect it then I'll ignore what the gauge is doing and plod on 😂





itguy said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if you have a problem with the HX temperate probe. There are others on here who have had issues with it too. My MaraX can sit at around 0.75 bar for hours at a time without changing temp - just like it has settled in to exactly what temp it needs to be at to keep the group at what it expects. If your HX temp probe is faulty or misreading then it might be thinking that the HX/group temp isn't right (ie too low) thus boosting.
> 
> I presume there is no evidence of any leaks? I only ask because obviously if there is HX water going through the group or leaking, thus introducing colder water into the HX then it would boost for steam as it will have thought you'd have brewed.


 So... few months later and still have same issue. It's still erratic... I can walk up to the machine 35/40 mins after turning on and the pressure will be up at 1.5 bar with the group temp being up at 94/95 in the lowest temp setting while sometimes I'll be steady at 0.5/0.75 bar with a lovely 91.8/92 temp reading. Today I managed to capture it at it's worst. I'd pulled my round of morning shots and left it for 30 mins to stabilise.. when I came back to it it was sat at 1ish bar with the group temp sat at 99 degrees.. soon as I lifted the lever... bubbling hot mess. Left it for another 30 mins... exact same... this time 1.5ish bar and 100+ degrees. Been trying to troubleshoot this for months on end and it's defeated me. Time to shoot an email over to BB and Lelit Care and show them this footage.

@DavecUK Any ideas what this could be? Could it be as easy as a simple temp probe swap or do you think it's going to be getting sent back to BB?

Videos are Below:


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## DavecUK

Just go back to Bella Barista...I could speculate, but I don't support the warranty, they do, and it is in warranty at the moment.

I believe the fix would be something you can install at home....so you shouldn't need to send it back....unless they insist.


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## thawhat

DavecUK said:


> Just go back to Bella Barista...I could speculate, but I don't support the warranty, they do, and it is in warranty at the moment.
> 
> I believe the fix would be something you can install at home....so you shouldn't need to send it back....unless they insist.


 Understandable. Sent an email over now... shall wait for their response 🙂


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## Steve0183

thawhat said:


> Understandable. Sent an email over now... shall wait for their response 🙂


 What is the digital sensor you are using? I might look into getting one.

I have not noticed the boiling group that you have shown. My pressure does go up to 1.5 2 bar though. I will have a closer look tomorrow and see what temperature the water is coming out at.


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## Steve0183

Well sad days for myself.

Yet again something has gone wrong with my Mara X. I turned it in only to eventually hear hissing and spirting.

I went over to the machine and the stream temp is off the scale. Even after turning off and cooling, then turning back on it fails again.

Bella barista support is yet again amazing. I think they are fed up with the machines and offering to upgrade to a different manufacture.

Not what I expect from the machine. Really really disappointed from Lelit!!

I think I am going to see what dual boilers there are as I've lost confidence in the mara x.


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## puit

Hi all,

I believe I have similar issues as some of you described. (Machine bought Feb 2021)

First, lately I have noticed that the boiler pressure oscillates between 1-1.5 (temp setting 1), while this used to be 0.7-1.2. I have a USB serial connector connected so I can monitor the temperature readings. When the pressure gauge reads 1, and the HX temp probe (via USB connector) reads 94, the water coming out of the group head in not boiling. However, when the pressure gauge reads 1.5, the HX temp probe also reads 94, and the water coming out of the group head is boiling. This doesn't seem consistent, what could be the reason for the increased pressure range and this inconsistency?

Second, after pulling shot(s), the machine does several short pumps, sometimes up to 5 times over the course of 7 minutes. These pumps last 1-3 seconds and the pump pressure gauge immediately ramps up the 8 (that's what's the OPV is set to). The machine has always done this, but it went from sporadically to always. This is annoying because it is noisy, seems unnecessary and sometimes it causes the machine to take longer than 15m to settle.

Third, I've had it twice (over the course of 1 year) that the pressure gauge reads +-4, basically the furthest is can go. Both times where during initial heat up.

As suggested somewhere in this thread I flushed 0.5l through the group head to eliminate any air, but this did not solve any of the issues.

I have the feeling there's something wrong with the HX temp probe, and maybe some other things. What do you guys think?

Main reason for asking is: I bought the machine from a local supplier, and I'm not confident that he will be aware of any of these known issues.

Thanks in advance!


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## Steve0183

puit said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I believe I have similar issues as some of you described. (Machine bought Feb 2021)
> 
> First, lately I have noticed that the boiler pressure oscillates between 1-1.5 (temp setting 1), while this used to be 0.7-1.2. I have a USB serial connector connected so I can monitor the temperature readings. When the pressure gauge reads 1, and the HX temp probe (via USB connector) reads 94, the water coming out of the group head in not boiling. However, when the pressure gauge reads 1.5, the HX temp probe also reads 94, and the water coming out of the group head is boiling. This doesn't seem consistent, what could be the reason for the increased pressure range and this inconsistency?
> 
> Second, after pulling shot(s), the machine does several short pumps, sometimes up to 5 times over the course of 7 minutes. These pumps last 1-3 seconds and the pump pressure gauge immediately ramps up the 8 (that's what's the OPV is set to). The machine has always done this, but it went from sporadically to always. This is annoying because it is noisy, seems unnecessary and sometimes it causes the machine to take longer than 15m to settle.
> 
> Third, I've had it twice (over the course of 1 year) that the pressure gauge reads +-4, basically the furthest is can go. Both times where during initial heat up.
> 
> As suggested somewhere in this thread I flushed 0.5l through the group head to eliminate any air, but this did not solve any of the issues.
> 
> I have the feeling there's something wrong with the HX temp probe, and maybe some other things. What do you guys think?
> 
> Main reason for asking is: I bought the machine from a local supplier, and I'm not confident that he will be aware of any of these known issues.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 Hi the issues I experienced were due to the temperature sensors completely failing. This resulted in the pressure dial going completely off the scale and the opv operating to release the excess pressure.

I updated to a profitec pro 700 and have had no issues since and the coffee difference is night and day. Couldn't be more happy.

It sounds like you possibly have air in the system somewhere, or maybe a faulty sensor, but my understanding is usually they either work or they don't.

Bella Barista were extremely helpful and honest with my machine issues so I would recommend having a chat with them. You can either send them the machine and get it serviced at the same time or get advice on how to rectify any parts that may need replacing.

Hope this helps buddy


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## puit

Steve0183 said:


> It sounds like you possibly have air in the system somewhere, or maybe a faulty sensor, but my understanding is usually they either work or they don't.
> 
> Bella Barista were extremely helpful and honest with my machine issues so I would recommend having a chat with them.


 Thanks for your quick reply.

Any idea how to get the potential air out, apart from running lots of water through the group head (which I tried multiple times)?

Can you elaborate on "they either work or they don't". I have the feeling my machine's sensors fall somewhere in between.

As mentioned, I bought from a small local supplier (Belgium), so what seems like fantastic customer support from BB does not help me... I'll have to try my luck with my supplier!

Cheers!


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## Steve0183

puit said:


> Thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> Any idea how to get the potential air out, apart from running lots of water through the group head (which I tried multiple times)?
> 
> Can you elaborate on "they either work or they don't". I have the feeling my machine's sensors fall somewhere in between.
> 
> As mentioned, I bought from a small local supplier (Belgium), so what seems like fantastic customer support from BB does not help me... I'll have to try my luck with my supplier!
> 
> Cheers!


 empty the water tank and refill with water.

I don't use them as I don't think they are any good, but if you have a filter in the tank then soak a new one and then install before refilling.

Draw a minimum of 500ml continuously from the group in order to prime the pump.

Once machine is up to temperature draw another 500ml of hot water from the hot water tap to start an auto fill and have that path primed as well.

I may be wrong so don't quote me on it, but in my experience the sensors either work ie machine operates as it should, or they don't so machine either heats up and doesnt stop heating to the point the opv opens (which happened to me 3 times) or the machine didn't heat at all.

Hopefully the refill method will sort things out for you. Failing that I would send an email to BB with the issues you are experiencing and I'm sure they will help you. If a spare part is needed im sure they ship abroad as well.

I assume your using soft water so scale isn't a possible problem.


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