# How often are you disappointed with espresso at good cafes?



## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Not sure if it's simply the case of bright roasts still dominating most cafes, but after another face twisting shot at a Richmond cafe I thought I'd ask here. How often are you happy with the shots you get served at good reputable cafes? Honestly I can't remember the last time I had a shot and thought to myself, wow that was good.

T.


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## GrowlingDog (Apr 10, 2016)

I find it very rare I sit down in a cafe and enjoy a decent cup of coffee.

I used to work very near Monmouth in Covent Garden, that was OK, but it did get very busy which I'm not a fan of.

A few years ago before I really got into coffee I did used to enjoy sitting in Hussars coffee shop in Hampton Wick, I seem to recall the coffee in there was good, I'd stop in there every morning on my way to the office.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

I rarely go to a coffee shop to be impressed. It usually ends up as a disappointment otherwise.

I was talking to a colleague with whom we go for lunch every now and then and we sometimes hit a coffee shop that does amazing sandwiches and good coffee. He challenged me why are we going there if "coffee is just alright". They do good sandwiches and coffee is more than drinkable in milk... shop that produces better coffee has meh customer service and poor sandwiches (IMHO), so it's a win/win for both of us. I don't have to bin coffee and food is ace.

I had good shots and on my recent trip to Netherlands. I did have some very tasty coffees (at Scandinavian Embassy and Ohoj out of ~6 I visited). I did research a lot for some obscure reason.

I also got hyped about a 2 group slayer, an EK, Mythos, etc. in a shop nearby. Finally, a great shop in my neighbourhood! It must be, if they have that gear?! They're pulling 1:2 shots on EK and it was good, but I was so disappointed. It just felt like wasted potential, but then that's just my preference anyway.

So 50/50? If you do good enough research, go to selected places that match your preferences and get lucky, then you're good.


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## Fez (Dec 31, 2018)

I'm in London for the weekend visiting some friends and family and today we were in East London. So I did my usual, search on Google for some local coffee shops and then carefully inspect pictures and their websites. Chose a place Doppio, drove there and as soon as I walked in there were a few things that put me off. The biggest of which their bags of beans were just sitting open, no lid on the hopper of the grinder and when chatting to the guy he said their beans are 30% robusta. I chose not to buy a coffee there, one of my friends did and he wasn't too impressed.

While walking around the area I found another place called nude espresso(which didn't even show on Google maps) and at that point was more than overdue my caffiene fix so I just said screw it and went in. Was pleasantly surprised to see some good kit in there, peeked over the counter and they had scales behind the bar and the coffee was great!

Moral of the story, sometimes you can't solely rely on Google 

to reply to the topic at hand though. I feel like I am disappointed quite often but there are still many great cafes out there. As Papa said, some research and you've got a 50/50 chance


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

PPapa said:


> and Ohoj


 I'm curious how you ended up there? It's pretty out of the way of most things!

Not managed to make it to Ohoj yet but really want to, was in the city for a long weekend a couple of weeks (its where my mum is from) ago but had a lot to do so only managed to make it to The Village and Koffie Leute. If you are back then check out Dagger Coffee - the owner always does very well in competitions and standards are very high. It's a bit out of the way again but if you can make it to ohoj you can make it there.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

In answer to the question not that often, but I tend to do my research heavily beforehand and stick to known good coffee shops if possible.

I find London and UK roasters very disappointing these days.

I'm only interested in lighter roasts not burnt commodity coffee.


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

aaronb said:


> I'm curious how you ended up there? It's pretty out of the way of most things!
> 
> Not managed to make it to Ohoj yet but really want to, was in the city for a long weekend a couple of weeks (its where my mum is from) ago but had a lot to do so only managed to make it to The Village and Koffie Leute. If you are back then check out Dagger Coffee﻿﻿ - the owner always does very well in competitions and standards are very high. It's a bit out of the way again but if you can make it to ohoj you can make it there.


 I just happened to be in Utrecht for a concert and had few spare days to explore Amsterdam/Utrecht. I don't mind a bit of walking - I was averaging 30K+ steps that week .

Did I say I was doing *a bit *of research?! Ohoj came up on the list and so I went. I had a good chat with the roaster/owner. I bought a bag of beans and was told the anaerobic fermentation Brazilian special he had was on him! It's certainly worth visiting and the atmosphere is brilliant. To be frank, 30ml, 't Koffieboontje or The Village didn't really impress me.

I really liked the set-up of Ohoj as well. You just sit right in the front of the bar with no artificial barrier between you, barista and the sexy gear:



















Photos were stolen borrowed copied from https://www.exploreutrecht.nl/en/coffee-at-ohoj-on-the-rijnlaan/ and http://coffee-terminus.com/speciality-coffee-map-of-utrecht/ .


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Ooooo Ohoj! A customer of theirs paid me to make them a couple of towels as a gift from him a few weeks ago!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Given coffee shops that view themselves as 3rd wave and use high end kit the point of which is, once dialled in, is replicability, you would think shot consistency was guaranteed. Wrong.

Once went into a coffee shop boasting a Black Eagle/Clima Pro set up. The coffee was rank so complained. Was told it was the roaster's fault. Moral: doesn't matter how good/expensive the kit is, if the person pulling the shot is useless and/or doesn't give a ......the coffee is likely to disappoint.


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## MildredM (Feb 13, 2017)

Re the topic and disappointment at supposedly good coffee shops, I would say it is rare we are served a really nice cup these days. Thinking over the last years' visits to cafes I can only recall Foundry, North Star, and Roost..... there are probably a couple of others but I am struggling to remember them. There are a couple I won't mention that have a big following, they are The Place To Be Seen and all that, the food is pretentious and the coffee awful!


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

There's a one man tiny coffee shop in St Ives - Mount Zion - seats about six at a push. The guy is a legend. Dropped by couple of month's back. The espresso was sublime. He weighs and checks each dose talking off any excess grinds with a spoon. Spotted a refractometer on the bench. How often have you seen that? He is incredibly knowledgable and passionate about what he does. Came away smiling and reflecting on a comment he made about one bean having too much mallic acid for his tastes.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

As noted above, high end kit is supposed to produce replicable shots meaning, once dialled in, a numpty should be able to pull decent shots. If you want to know how good/seriously a shop takes its coffee, ask for a pour over. This will test the skill/training of the barista. Most of the coffee I've so ordered have been epic fails.

One standout has been Cartwheel in Nottingham. Produced two V60s bang on the tasting notes.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Milk cures all evils and guessing meat espresso is less than 5 percent of any cafes volume of drinks.

Plus the reality Is of cafes even percieved high end ones will pay not much, have staff turnover and will not be employing geeks for the love of making coffee, coz we won't work there for 8 quid an hour.

Plus its all about prefence, if I went round 10 forums members Houses, how many of them would make an espresso I would enjoy...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

MildredM said:


> Re the topic and disappointment at supposedly good coffee shops, I would say it is rare we are served a really nice cup these days. Thinking over the last years' visits to cafes I can only recall Foundry, North Star, and Roost..... there are probably a couple of others but I am struggling to remember them. There are a couple I won't mention that have a big following, they are The Place To Be Seen and all that, the food is pretentious and the coffee awful!
> 
> View attachment 31404


 Plus they don't have tea towels?


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

It might boil down to personal preference in some cases, which is also the reason I asked. For me 90% of bright spro simply tastes salty and harsh, that is all I taste regardless of the taste profile for whatever bean is used.

T.


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## IamOiman (Nov 13, 2018)

It's a similar situation in the US (outside of Washington State at least. They are pretty decent if you look around), especially in Rhode Island. After moving back from Italy I am extremely paranoid of trying any 'expresso' offered by the few cafes near me. The unfortunate truth is just about everybody in New England goes to Dunkin' Donuts for their caffeine hit. The two cafes I visited with my family resulted in mediocre and sour underextracted light roasts. I saw the baristas tamping my stuff and let's just say something was not level with their work and worth the $2-3 for a SINGLE shot...

We've been having workers come over for various things like painting, fixing the dryer, new carpeting, etc and I have given them shots of my espresso that I personally pull and all of them were shocked at the difference in taste compared to Dunkin', saying it is wicked good in the Boston-esque accent. I may have a cult following developed towards this mythical espresso if this keeps up.

Seriously though, there is only one place that serves even decent espresso, and it is an Italian food import store that just opened recently called Bottega Bocconi. The owner is from Bologna and married an American. He is the one man I would trust to make me a shot within fifty miles of where I live, no joke.

This leads me to conclude that only I can satisfy what I want, that being towards the darker roast side, and can totally justify all of my espresso purchases. ?


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## CoolingFlush (Aug 4, 2019)

I'd say it's about 50/50, bit depends on how selective you are with cafes.

Last week I went into Yay Coffee in Scarborough, whilst visiting, and was blown away by the quality of the shots I was served. They were using some HasBean coffee, a big La Marzocco, scales etc and taking great care with every step. I have had some great pour over in Pink Lane Coffee in Newcastle too. Nothing fancy, just Kalita wave, timer scales, huge grinder and some care.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

PPapa said:


> I just happened to be in Utrecht for a concert and had few spare days to explore Amsterdam/Utrecht. I don't mind a bit of walking - I was averaging 30K+ steps that week .
> 
> Did I say I was doing *a bit *of research?! Ohoj came up on the list and so I went. I had a good chat with the roaster/owner. I bought a bag of beans and was told the anaerobic fermentation Brazilian special he had was on him! It's certainly worth visiting and the atmosphere is brilliant. To be frank, 30ml, 't Koffieboontje or The Village didn't really impress me.
> 
> ...


 30ml are awful.

t'koffieboontje use Bocca who do roast some excellent coffee's but not been impressed at t'koffieboontje itself. Bocca's flagship in cafe in Amsterdam is stunning and they run some interesting coffee's, had one from Cape Verde that was insane.

Koffie Leute are good for filters as they have a dedicated filter bar.

Dagger Coffee is best for espresso.

Will def go to Ohoj next time, hadn't been in a while so had a lot of family catching up to do. Utrecht's a great city but so much busier and more touristy than 15 years ago, but then where isn't I guess.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Plus its all about prefence, if I went round 10 forums members Houses, how many of them would make an espresso I would enjoy...


 One and he lives in Whittley Bay. ?


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

I've grown very wary of buying espresso at cafes... so rarely get a good one, or even an "interesting" one. I'll order tea, if the risk of "espresso disappointment" is high-as not-great tea can (sometimes) be better buried in milk, whereas milk can (sometimes) bring out even more awfulness in a bad espresso! (I can tolerate bad tea better than a bad espresso!?)

And, why don't good restaurants understand the last coffee/espresso of the night is as important as the meal & the flamboyant dessert? Because too many people don't cherish good coffee? ... or drink without attention? ... or drown it with milk & flavourings that turn it into a liquid candy bar?? Oh, it drives me crazy! I feel a good owner should be educating his customers to higher levels of appreciation.? Call me an unapologetic espresso/coffee snob.

For example: I had a truly wonderful meal last year at a local restaurant with a very good chef... the sort of meal that gives a glow & lingers... and cries out for an excellent single shot to wrap up the experience. I knew better, yet couldn't help myself; wanted that accented closure to a great dinner. I looked over at the dimly lit bar... spotted untended but enviable equipment, so thought "yes, this bodes well". Oh my, what a disappointment... undrinkable... and the lovely meal went out of my mind, replaced by the decision to never eat there again. Why doesn't the industry understand this? It's the last taste that stays with you when you leave the restaurant; that defines whether you return.

I've learned to be wary.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Slowpress said:


> I've grown very wary of buying espresso at cafes... so rarely get a good one, or even an "interesting" one. I'll order tea, if the risk of "espresso disappointment" is high-as not-great tea can (sometimes) be better buried in milk, whereas milk can (sometimes) bring out even more awfulness in a bad espresso! (I can tolerate bad tea better than a bad espresso!?)
> 
> And, why don't good restaurants understand the last coffee/espresso of the night is as important as the meal & the flamboyant dessert? Because too many people don't cherish good coffee? ... or drink without attention? ... or drown it with milk & flavourings that turn it into a liquid candy bar?? Oh, it drives me crazy! I feel a good owner should be educating his customers to higher levels of appreciation.? Call me an unapologetic espresso/coffee snob.
> 
> ...


 The industry doesn't understand ( restaurants ) coz not enough of their customers actually value good coffee, meaning it's not worth the hassle of training , gear and good coffee.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> The﻿ i﻿ndustry doesn't understand ( restaurants ) coz not enough of their customers actually value good coffee, meaning it's not worth the hassle of training , gear and good coffee.


 Yup, and in this case they had great gear, but no one capable of doing it justice. More's the pity.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

The place I've been to yesterday had all the kit, scales everywhere, the guy pulling the shots was sipping on a spro tasting and making adjustments, the crew was genuinely convinced that the spro served to me was top notch, yet it was uber harsh and salty. What gives then? This is one of the reasons why I mentioned personal preference before, perhaps it's my taste buds which are just not agreeing with bright spros? Similar thing happend a few times before with ek type spros, to me all the ones I had were absolute mouth killers.

T.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dsc said:


> The place I've been to yesterday had all the kit, scales everywhere, the guy pulling the shots was sipping on a spro tasting and making adjustments, the crew was genuinely convinced that the spro served to me was top notch, yet it was uber harsh and salty. What gives then? This is one of the reasons why I mentioned personal preference before, perhaps it's my taste buds which are just not agreeing with bright spros? Similar thing happend a few times before with ek type spros, to me all the ones I had were absolute mouth killers.
> 
> T.


 It's preference, they like, you don't.


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## L&R (Mar 8, 2018)

I drink tea out of home so no disappointment.


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## aaronb (Nov 16, 2012)

Slowpress said:


> And, why don't good restaurants understand the last coffee/espresso of the night is as important as the meal & the flamboyant dessert? Because too many people don't cherish good coffee? ... or drink without attention? ... or drown it with milk & flavourings that turn it into a liquid candy bar?? Oh, it drives me crazy! I feel a good owner should be educating his customers to higher levels of appreciation.? Call me an unapologetic espresso/coffee snob.


 Personally I feel more and more are. My 2 favourite restaurants in Norwich both have done speciality coffee since they opened 4/5 years ago, but they like to do filter. I *love* filter coffee but not after a huge meal and bottle of wine.

Sadly a different long standing restaurant has just switched from commodity coffee to a small local commodity coffee roaster who chats a lot of **** and clearly wants to be seen at speciality but is not and cannot be at their ludicrously cheap prices.

Another new restaurant has just opened (Benoli) doing Italian food (poorly) and serves lavazaa as the owner believes you need very low quality dark roasted coffee to compliment that type of food ?


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## mctrials23 (May 8, 2017)

Strangely enough the best espresso I have ever had was when I wasn't drinking that much coffee and what I did drink was 95% milk based. It was from a fish restaurant near Portland in the UK. A very highly regarded fish restaurant but wasn't expecting anything from the espresso and it was delicious.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Slowpress said:


> Yup, and in this case they had great gear, but no one capable of doing it justice. More's the pity.


 That is not limited to restaurants unfortunately


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

I go to a little independent in Bradford on Avon called Gilou's (highly recommended if you are down that way) again similar to @The Systemic Kid Cornwall experience, it's someone passionate about coffee who runs the shop and makes every drink himself, turns out lovely drinks across the range.

However this really is the exception to the norm unfortunately


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> Milk cures all evils and guessing meat espresso is less than 5 percent of any cafes volume of drinks.
> 
> Plus the reality Is of cafes even percieved high end ones will pay not much, have staff turnover and will not be employing geeks for the love of making coffee, coz we won't work there for 8 quid an hour.
> 
> Plus its all about prefence, if I went round 10 forums members Houses, how many of them would make an espresso I would enjoy...


 Careful who you invite over, fellow forum members! :exit:

Seriously though, if I'm not expecting uber coffee I can cope with mediocre shots. Don't care about equipment either, every basic 2-/3-group machine costs a fortune and never sees knowledgeable staff.

Where I started my pro roasting journey, it's a small local restaurant that switched from a traditional Austrian commodity brand to our beans. It happened when owners started to hand over business to their son. There was a lot of scepticism at first whether or not a start-up roastery could be up to the job, at all... but we would fit their approach of local sourcing, handcrafted food and focus on taste. In the past 30 years, they had one single guest praising their coffee - ever since we're supplying beans, they get dozens of positive comments a week and have nearly tripled their coffee sales in half a year. I'm not saying they're getting the most out of it at all times, but I check by once a week and assist with adjusting grind. But, I would never have agreed to the whole idea if junior owner wouldn't be such a tinkerer (and awarded master beer brewer) himself. It just needs a wholehearted barista...

No love - no coffee.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

Mrboots2u said:


> That﻿ is not limited to restaurants unfo﻿rtunately ﻿


 Too true.


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## Slowpress (Jun 11, 2019)

coffeechap said:


> I go to a little independent in Bradford on Avon called Gilou's (highly recommended if you are down that way) again similar to @The Systemic Kid Cornwall experience, it's someone passionate about coffee who runs the shop and makes every drink himself, turns out lovely drinks across the range.
> 
> However this really is the exception to the norm unfortunately


 I agree with you, the best chance of success in my experience favours a small cafe, with a passionate owner/barista who is also the only one pulling the shots.

One popular cafe near me has several baristas, but only one who is consistently superb at the craft. I stop in if he is at the bar, and otherwise give it amiss. He makes shots that are always intriguing or educational (different roast levels & beans than I would choose to use at home, but so well made in his capable hands... I broaden & learn from new flavours & textures in his shots, something that I very much appreciate. He also is so keen & eager to discuss the craft.... genuinely pleased to chat about whatever is in the cup... or cleaning a grinder, adjusting it for humidity, etc... anything at all connected to coffee!?

(When dining out, I do find the chances of a good cuppa joe are far greater with filtered & V60 coffee than with espresso.)


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

It's kind of sad to see how many people agree that most places are disappointing, especially as we are talking about good reputable cafes, not Costa or Sbucks. I might be the odd one out not liking the current trends or thinking that mediocre spro is just vile, but I always assumed most people are quite happy with what they are served.

As for brewed after a full meal - that is rather odd imho...(brewed is another thing which mostly brings disappointments btw).

T.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dsc said:


> It's kind of sad to see how many people agree that most places are disappointing, especially as we are talking about good reputable cafes, not Costa or Sbucks. I might be the odd one out not liking the current trends or thinking that mediocre spro is just vile, but I always assumed most people are quite happy with what they are served.
> 
> As for brewed after a full meal - that is rather odd imho...(brewed is another thing which mostly brings disappointments btw).
> 
> T.


 Isn't this why we end up making espresso at home....


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## the_partisan (Feb 29, 2016)

I'm also quite wary of ordering espresso in speciality coffees, usually it's really acidic and/or bitter at the same time. I've had so many bad ones that I almost never order espresso anymore.

I don't think you need any fancy equipment like Slayer or EK43/Mythos.. The best espresso I've had in a coffee shop was at Tim Wendelboe's and it was from a Robur and a modest La Marzocco machine. I'd prefer the espresso you get in some average cafe in Naples to most of the speciality ones too, at least it's not making a burning hole in my stomach.


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## dsc (Jun 7, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> Isn't this why we end up making espresso at home....


To some extent, but it was always because most non speciality places where shit, not because most speciality places are shit, at least imho. It's a sad state of affairs when places which should be leading the way are shite and can't be recommended. In speciality cafes it should be an exception to get bad coffee, not the norm










T.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dsc said:


> To some extent, but it was always because most non speciality places where shit, not because most speciality places are shit, at least imho. It's a sad state of affairs when places which should be leading the way are shite and can't be recommended. In speciality cafes it should be an exception to get bad coffee, not the norm
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 If you are not a fan of fruit forward coffee then specialty places are gonna be limited in their appeal to you anyway.

One man's sour is another man's acidic , I do struggle though with alot of espresso in cafes. Again milk hides most defects.

I would suggest that perhaps it's a combination of alot of coffee being under developed at roast and then sometimes that not being pulled to optimal at a cafe.

I get brewed coffee more often than not that I like though.


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I think that people making decisions on buying and dialling-in coffees only listen to the 1% of their customers that like their coffee to taste that way.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

My favourite place for espresso was Amoret in Hammersmith which I only discovered as I was working next door. They had a fantastic natural which was roasted for them by Curve. Was sublime every time as straight spro or cortado. The baristi were really passionate and took care over every shot. No seats though (at all) as the shop is tiny and i really miss it since not working there any more. Most of the time I'll order a flat white anywhere else, and if it blows me away I'll go neat. A bit of milk makes almost anything drinkable, but hoping for standout is setting yourself up to be let down I fear. Espresso is just too intense to enjoy if it's too light/ dark/ under/ over extracted. To be honest if the cafe looks capable I'll order V60 as I've only got aeropress at home and I've had some great V60s out and about.

___
Eat, drink and be merry


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## Mattius2 (Aug 28, 2016)

A fire alarm today meant the building I needed to visit was shut with everyone out in the street. Popped into Gordon St Coffee at Glasgow Central Station to kill a few minutes.

Best cafe espresso in about a year. Total pot luck. But really delicious. Wouldn't usually chance it in most places.

Laboratorio a few streets away is also consistently good


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think a lot of decent coffee places will opt for a solid blend for espresso which has a more forgiving window for error.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tobyjrn6 (Dec 22, 2016)

Couldn't agree more on this one. I've only really enjoyed espresso from a couple of places where you can watch the staff weighing, tasting etc (i highly recommend Brew in Bristol if anyone is local).

I know the kind of coffee the cafe I work at puts out when im not weighing, tasting etc and i think it comes down to ethos. The average person thinks making espresso is as simple as pushing a button and the equally average person doesnt notice the difference when it's diluted in 250+ml of milk (another pet peeve) and so most cafes approach it as such and dont know or care to train their staff any further.

There is also a definite inclination to believe that buying nice beans = good coffee by default


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## PPapa (Oct 24, 2015)

Mattius2 said:


> A fire alarm today meant the building I needed to visit was shut with everyone out in the street. Popped into Gordon St Coffee at Glasgow Central Station to kill a few minutes.
> 
> Best cafe espresso in about a year. Total pot luck. But really delicious. Wouldn't usually chance it in most places.
> 
> Laboratorio a few streets away is also consistently good


River hill is decent too...


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

I actually had a particularly bad espresso served to me yesterday in central London by someone very well known in the industry which I can only describe as ashy, yet green and bittersour all at the same time. Like drinking melted innertubes.

This barista and I split a shot and as I winced and almost threw it up, he grinned and savoured it. Maybe some people have done such damage to their palate through arselicking to get where they are that they no longer have actual taste.


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## Hasi (Dec 27, 2017)

Scotford said:


> I actually had a particularly bad espresso served to me yesterday in central London by someone very well known in the industry which I can only describe as ashy, yet green and bittersour all at the same time. Like drinking melted innertubes.
> 
> This barista and I split a shot and as I winced and almost threw it up, he grinned and savoured it. Maybe some people have done such damage to their palate through arselicking to get where they are that they no longer have actual taste.



hoping he'll never read this!


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## Scotford (Apr 24, 2014)

Hasi said:


> hoping he'll never read this!


Pretty sure they won't, but I don't pull any punches when it comes to taste and absolutely told them what I thought of it.

People put criticism down to subjective opinions but I reckon that's a defense mechanism so they don't have to accept that their product is shit.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

dsc said:


> Not sure if it's simply the case of bright roasts still dominating most cafes, but after another face twisting shot at a Richmond cafe I thought I'd ask here. How often are you happy with the shots you get served at good reputable cafes? Honestly I can't remember the last time I had a shot and thought to myself, wow that was good.
> 
> T.


 I went out of my way to go to a particular cafe in Glasgow......it wasn't that welcoming and nor was the espresso. But I'll give it another go on my next visit.


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## scottishcoffeegeek (Sep 27, 2016)

nicholasj said:


> I went out of my way to go to a particular cafe in Glasgow......it wasn't that welcoming and nor was the espresso. But I'll give it another go on my next visit.


Would be interested to know which cafe...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Expectation v Reality is a biggie. Having heard such rave reviews about Colonna, I was underwhelmed by their espresso when I visited last year.

But yes, espresso is independents can be pretty bad. I usually ask a quick question or two ("Hey, who roasts your beans") to begin with, and if I get even a half-hearted answer or uncertainty I just order tea.

In Birmingham city centre we're pretty lucky, though.


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

On the day I was in Birmingham at a place often frequented by Spence+ others and recommended , the coffee's we had were terrible. If that is fruit forward you can keep it

This with flat whites ?


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

El carajillo said:


> On the day I was in Birmingham at a place often frequented by Spence+ others and recommended , the coffee's we had were terrible. If that is fruit forward you can keep it
> 
> This with flat whites ?


 Name names!


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## HowardSmith (Jan 21, 2018)

El carajillo said:


> On the day I was in Birmingham at a place often frequented by Spence+ others and recommended , the coffee's we had were terrible. If that is fruit forward you can keep it
> This with flat whites ?


If it was faculty I have had good drinks there but the last time I went and ordered a cappuccino it was pure sour... Not fruity but sour... Like so bad I would sink it at home for sure and make another (which is rare).

To cafe was busy too so a lot of people were getting served this.


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## nicholasj (Nov 11, 2013)

scottishcoffeegeek said:


> Would be interested to know which cafe...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 It was Laboratorio Espresso. I haven't got around to a return visit yet, but it was a disappointment!


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## scottishcoffeegeek (Sep 27, 2016)

nicholasj said:


> It was Laboratorio Espresso. I haven't got around to a return visit yet, but it was a disappointment!


That's surprising! I don't often go there at all purely based on its location as I'm usually not that far up town, but have heard loads of good things about it. Interesting. My experience was that it was small, not the friendliest & had no atmosphere, which regardless of how good the coffee is is something that matters to me.
Riverhill loyal! Haha!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boxerman33 (Jul 2, 2019)

I've just returned from a trip to Berlin and stumbled across 'Bloody Good Coffee' just across from Alexanderplatz, was actually looking for a decent breakfast eatery but was one of the best coffees i've had in a long time, went back each of the 4 days i was there!!


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## filthynines (May 2, 2016)

Boxerman33 said:


> I've just returned from a trip to Berlin and stumbled across 'Bloody Good Coffee' just across from Alexanderplatz, was actually looking for a decent breakfast eatery but was one of the best coffees i've had in a long time, went back each of the 4 days i was there!!


 Berlin is one of my favourite cities. We had a great trip there a couple of years ago. So much choice.


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## CoolingFlush (Aug 4, 2019)

Terrible espresso yesterday, in pretty much the best regarded cafe in Newcastle. Today, really delicious one in what is essentially a donut shop - Proven Goods Co. Incidentally it was £1.80, which I thought was reasonable, and made from Luckie Beans Love Lane Blend.

As an aside, I went into another place nearby and the coffee menu was off, after they had accidentally put hydrochloric acid instead of citric acid in the La Marzocco, which had melted through some of the plastic outlet pipes!!!? My overall faith in cafe espresso took a further dent at that moment.


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## CoolingFlush (Aug 4, 2019)

Correction: my wife reckons they said sulphuric acid. Don't know whether that's any better!


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## Stanic (Dec 12, 2015)

CoolingFlush said:


> Correction: my wife reckons they said sulphuric acid. Don't know whether that's any better!


 holy c..p ?


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