# Is the cleaning cycle just bollocks?



## Jamie K

I got a Bambino Plus just under a month ago and I'm generally very happy with it and Sage (after their CS sent me some single walled baskets) however today I encountered the cleaning cycle and it just seems like a crappy way for Sage to make a bit more money by selling you cleaning tablets.

First of all the manual says that the machine will prompt you to run the cleaning cycle after about 200 coffees. Like I said, I've had it for under a month and made an average of 2 coffees a day, max, there's no way I've made 200 coffees.

Then I watched the official video and thought now how does the water get through the cleaning disk? (And what would be the point of that anyway?) I started the cleaning cycle and sure enough the water seemed to be washing out the waste channel directly into the drip tray, none coming into the 2l bowl I'd carefully balanced on the drip tray as instructed. So I called Sage support and the guy said that yes, the video is incorrect and was made before some changes were made to the machine (right) and what I was seeing with my machine was correct behaviour. The cleaning cycle ends and I remove the portafilter to see virtually the entire cleaning tablet still intact::

  

And what is actually even being cleaned here? I totally get the descaling option, but cleaning on top of that seems totally pointless.


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## fluffles

I had a similar issue with the tablets not dissolving properly on my Sage DB. I now use standard powder (not Sage branded)


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## Jamie K

Using the same process with the cleaning disk, water going directly into the drip tray? Thanks.


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## fluffles

Jamie K said:


> Using the same process with the cleaning disk, water going directly into the drip tray? Thanks.


Yes, when the pressure releases it drains into the drip tray. Where else could it go?


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## Jamie K

As you said you used a powder I just wondered if you'd put it in the water tank.


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## Cooffe

I've actually not had a problem with my Barista Express on the cleaning cycle. I use a single shot, double-walled basket and the rubber blanking disc. I've not had any residue left or anything on my cycles. Might be worth giving it a go?

Also, the video you're referencing, has a blanking disc with no hole in the bottom, so there was no possibility for the water to get through. I believe this was an old design and I guess outrun because the buildup of pressure could damage some internal componentry. Newer models (don't quote me but I think 2015 onwards) have the blanking plug with the hole in the bottom.


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## fluffles

I see - no definitely don't put it in the tank! I just spoon a bit on top of the rubber gasket in the PF.


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## PPapa

Does your rubber cleaning disk have a hole in the middle?

I think Sage changed the disks at some point and they no longer have a hole.


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## Cooffe

PPapa said:


> Does your rubber cleaning disk have a hole in the middle?
> 
> I think Sage changed the disks at some point and they no longer have a hole.


 I thought it was the opposite way around? They added the hole recently?


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## Rhys

Both the BE's I bought have holes in the rubber disc. One would cycle as it should with a normal amount of water in the bowl under the grouphead (using small basket as advised), the other one would pee through the basket into the bowl, which concerned me as it appears the cleaning solution was just getting pushed through.

I've tried the tablets as one machine came with some, though I've got a big tub of powder that came with the Speedster so I use that and the measuring end of a grouphead brush.

I'll be giving one of the machines a go in a minute as I'll be putting it up for sale shortly (other half uses my La Pav now), and see how it works in that one.


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## Jamie K

My (very recent) blanking disk does not have a hole in it, and what Sage CS told me seems to support what @PPapa reports, ie, they used to have holes but no longer do.


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## Cooffe

Ah, I probably got it wrong then. My machine is circa 2 years old now, but does have a blanking disc with the hole. Cleaning cycles have never been an issue for me though.


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## LocutusOfBorg

Hi!

I'm from Warsaw, Poland and also had the same issue with Bambino Plus.
I bought SAGE/Breville Bambino Plus last december (12.2019). I was having a lot of problems with cleaning process. And up to now I managed to make 4 cleaning cycles where each of them was finished with exact the same result as shown in the first post.

Two days ago my machine again asked for cleaning. I did it and couple hours later machine asked for cleaning again. I stopped after 3rd attempt (without pill). Today I called Polish Technical Support. And they said that there were a lot of cleaning disks that were wrongly made and they replaced my disk with the new one with hole in the middle.
I did cleaning process using the new disk and it worked as expected. Most of the pill was disolved in the process and some wather was pumped thru the coffee holder.

So it seems the hole in rubber disk is necessary to work correctly.


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## Dalerst

I clean mine once a week with Cafiza cleaning powder which I got from amazon, much cheaper that buying the tablets from sage.



LocutusOfBorg said:


> So it seems the hole in rubber disk is necessary to work correctly.


 this is interesting, My disc doesn't have the hole in the centre? I will be giving sage a call.


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## TomHughes

Dalerst said:


> I clean mine once a week with Cafiza cleaning powder which I got from amazon, much cheaper that buying the tablets from sage.
> 
> this is interesting, My disc doesn't have the hole in the centre? I will be giving sage a call.


 The hole isn't needed on the barista pro and you are trying to back flush through the solenoid


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## Dalerst

TomHughes said:


> you are trying to back flush through the solenoid


 I get that, but there is that much pressure in the portafilter, when I take it off I end up covered in water and the remainder of the flush solution. after time I can see other problems developing in the machine because there is far to much pressure.

When I put it through the cycle you can hear the pump screeching under the pressure, which surely isn't right.....


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## JSR

Hi there, I have an oracle, and my insert does not have a hole in. As far as I was aware, the whole point is to flush back through the system. When I have added a cafiza tablet for a clean cycle, there was no residue in the portafilter after.

Thanks

John


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## puffin1

@Dalerstthat doesn't sound right, I have the never version with the blanking disk without the hole and I've never found the pressure to build up that much during a cleaning cycle. As @JSR said, I also now use a cheaper branded cafiza tablet from amazon and had no issues whatsoever.


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## DavecUK

It might well be that the Sage Bambino plus does not have a 3 way solenoid valve and uses a similar system to the old Isomac Venus machines decades ago. if so, backflushing them doesn't work great and might be why they had to put a hole in the backflush disk....otherwise the pressure above 3 bar can't be vented rapidly and will hold for a while.


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## Dalerst

puffin1 said:


> @Dalerstthat doesn't sound right, I have the never version with the blanking disk without the hole and I've never found the pressure to build up that much during a cleaning cycle. As @JSR said, I also now use a cheaper branded
> 
> .


 I've emailed sage about this, they have responded saying, you should always use the double walled basket when doing the cleaning cycle (not sure what difference that makes) and the disc should't have any holes in it.



puffin1 said:


> cafiza tablet from amazon and had no issues whatsoever


 I use the cafiza but in power form.


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## Ciranin

Hi from Spain!

Unfortunately I'm having the same problem with my new Bambino Plus and the cleaning mode: so early for 200 extractions and the cleaning proccess doesn't work at all like Jamie K described. Aditionally to that, I'm not able to skip this cleaning mode (beyond pressing the STEAM buttom each time) and the lights are still flushing....aaaaarrrrggg!!!

The Spanish Support Service doesn't work and the official number doesn't exist either so I'm really frustated.

Is there any update to that problem? Any solution for switching the lights off at least?

thanks and Stay Home!!!


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## katharine

I think you can bypass the cleaning cycle by pressing the steam button whilst those other buttons are flashing. I'm surprised your machine would need a clean if it is new- mine just did the alternate flashing light indications today , I have had it 3 months now. (But not sure whether the cleaning cycle went through correctly, there is very little explanation in the instruction booklet).


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## Mike Ump

Sage bambino plus... why does the water tank need to be filled up to maximum and a 2litre jug need to be placed on the drip tray as such a small amount of water gets used when I use the cleaning cycle????


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## Dane272

Dalerst said:


> I get that, but there is that much pressure in the portafilter, when I take it off I end up covered in water and the remainder of the flush solution. after time I can see other problems developing in the machine because there is far to much pressure.
> 
> When I put it through the cycle you can hear the pump screeching under the pressure, which surely isn't right.....


 I have the Duo Temp and I am having the same problem every time I use the cleaning tablets with the plastic back flush disk, the pressure builds up so much that when I take the portafilter off it explodes with water. My back flush disk doesn't have a hole in, I contacted sage and they said the newer models don't have holes and I should try using a tea towel when taking off the portafilter. To me that doesn't sound safe.


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## Stobbs

Hi folks. We too have a Sage Bambino Plus, and in general absolutely love it, but we are having a bit of an issue with the wand not consistently producing decent foam. So, I am on a mission to thoroughly clean the machine out to see if this helps.

There are of course two cleaning modes. One for the portafilter with the blanking disc, and the other for descaling.

I cannot find a way to directly go into the former. You have to wait for the flashing lights at 200 cups and press the two buttons whilst the lights are flashing to correctly enter cleaning mode. And then, I too have a blanking disc with no hole, and it does leave a residue of the tablet. So, from reading through this forum, is it supposed to have a hole in it or not??? I get the fact it has no hole, so creates back pressure to flush it back through the system and out in to the drip tray, but as you have said in earlier posts, why then have the jug? And does anyone know of a way to go directly into this first cleaning mode without having to wait for the 200 cup flashing lights of death?

The second cleaning cycle, for descaling, fine with that, but we are now trying to run that once a week to clean the system out to improve the milk density. When we first got our Bambino, it produced great foam, nice and dense, up to the top of the jug, but as time has gone on it is just getting weaker and weaker, and I don't know if this is down to it needing much more aggressive cleaning than the manual states. On this note, can anyone recommend a decent cleaning agent to put in the tank for the descaling process?

Thanks in advance


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## Border_all

Stobbs said:


> Hi folks. We too have a Sage Bambino Plus, and in general absolutely love it, but we are having a bit of an issue with the wand not consistently producing decent foam. So, I am on a mission to thoroughly clean the machine out to see if this helps.
> 
> There are of course two cleaning modes. One for the portafilter with the blanking disc, and the other for descaling.
> 
> I cannot find a way to directly go into the former. You have to wait for the flashing lights at 200 cups and press the two buttons whilst the lights are flashing to correctly enter cleaning mode. And then, I too have a blanking disc with no hole, and it does leave a residue of the tablet. So, from reading through this forum, is it supposed to have a hole in it or not??? I get the fact it has no hole, so creates back pressure to flush it back through the system and out in to the drip tray, but as you have said in earlier posts, why then have the jug? And does anyone know of a way to go directly into this first cleaning mode without having to wait for the 200 cup flashing lights of death?
> 
> The second cleaning cycle, for descaling, fine with that, but we are now trying to run that once a week to clean the system out to improve the milk density. When we first got our Bambino, it produced great foam, nice and dense, up to the top of the jug, but as time has gone on it is just getting weaker and weaker, and I don't know if this is down to it needing much more aggressive cleaning than the manual states. On this note, can anyone recommend a decent cleaning agent to put in the tank for the descaling process?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 One thing you could try is get a cup of clean water pop the wand in and steam away, sometimes if you don't run enough steam after foaming it can get slightly blocked. Worth a shot


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## facboy

Stobbs said:


> Hi folks. We too have a Sage Bambino Plus, and in general absolutely love it, but we are having a bit of an issue with the wand not consistently producing decent foam. So, I am on a mission to thoroughly clean the machine out to see if this helps.
> 
> There are of course two cleaning modes. One for the portafilter with the blanking disc, and the other for descaling.
> 
> I cannot find a way to directly go into the former. You have to wait for the flashing lights at 200 cups and press the two buttons whilst the lights are flashing to correctly enter cleaning mode. And then, I too have a blanking disc with no hole, and it does leave a residue of the tablet. So, from reading through this forum, is it supposed to have a hole in it or not??? I get the fact it has no hole, so creates back pressure to flush it back through the system and out in to the drip tray, but as you have said in earlier posts, why then have the jug? And does anyone know of a way to go directly into this first cleaning mode without having to wait for the 200 cup flashing lights of death?
> 
> The second cleaning cycle, for descaling, fine with that, but we are now trying to run that once a week to clean the system out to improve the milk density. When we first got our Bambino, it produced great foam, nice and dense, up to the top of the jug, but as time has gone on it is just getting weaker and weaker, and I don't know if this is down to it needing much more aggressive cleaning than the manual states. On this note, can anyone recommend a decent cleaning agent to put in the tank for the descaling process?
> 
> Thanks in advance


 Strange, I've been having this problem just the last few days. I was wondering whether it was down to the milk! I was planning to try a descale tomorrow, though I've done it fairly recently.

What's the theory behind scale build up causing issues with the foam?


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## Jamie K

I spoke to Sage directly and they confirmed that the blanking disk is not meant to have a hole in it and that the cleaning cycle changed after they made the video and manual, ie, the 2l jug is no longer needed.

Have you tried using the two pins on the handy tool underneath the water container to clean the holes in the steam nozzle? That's all I've ever needed to occasionally use.

You can start the cleaning cycle whenever you like, just turn the machine on by holding both the single and double shot buttons. Have patience, it takes 5-10 seconds.


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## Stobbs

Thanks for the replies guys.

Border_all - we've done that a few times, and to be honest, I quite often put a jug of just water on after I've done the milk and froth that, just to flush out any milk it may have sucked back up from the milk frothing.

Facboy - I'm kinda thinking if there is any sort of build up in the coil pipework it will affect the pressure of the steam wand to create good dense foam. As I said, when we first got the machine it was amazing at creating dense foam with just the push of the button, but through time it definitely degrades in performance. Got to be something going on. We've used the same brand/type of milk forever, unsweetened soya.

Jamie K - Cheers for the clarification about "the hole". The four nozzles are clear, just not convinced the pressure is sufficient to create good foam. Not as it was when we first got it. But cheers for the cleaning cycle entry tip, will try that tomorrow.

Cheers folks


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## facboy

I descaled the machine (properly) this morning, have only steamed milk twice since. The first one still wasn't great, the second time was much better.

The last time I descaled the machine I missed the step where you stir the water/descaler until all the crystals dissolve (it takes bloody ages), so I bet the descaling wasn't very effective.


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## Stobbs

Jamie K said:


> I spoke to Sage directly and they confirmed that the blanking disk is not meant to have a hole in it and that the cleaning cycle changed after they made the video and manual, ie, the 2l jug is no longer needed.
> 
> Have you tried using the two pins on the handy tool underneath the water container to clean the holes in the steam nozzle? That's all I've ever needed to occasionally use.
> 
> You can start the cleaning cycle whenever you like, just turn the machine on by holding both the single and double shot buttons. Have patience, it takes 5-10 seconds.


 Hi Jamie

Tried your last point about starting the cleaning cycle by pressing and holding the single and double shot buttons for 5-10 secs. All this seemed to do was a factory reset of the machine. My pre-programmed single and double shots that I had set up disappeared and I had to reset them. Didn't go into the cleaning cycle.


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## Stobbs

facboy said:


> I descaled the machine (properly) this morning, have only steamed milk twice since. The first one still wasn't great, the second time was much better.
> 
> The last time I descaled the machine I missed the step where you stir the water/descaler until all the crystals dissolve (it takes bloody ages), so I bet the descaling wasn't very effective.


 I just ran through another descale cycle the other day and the milk foam still isn't great. Be sure to take the filter out the water container whilst you are doing this. The manual doesn't tell you to do this.


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## Jamie K

Stobbs said:


> Hi Jamie
> 
> Tried your last point about starting the cleaning cycle by pressing and holding the single and double shot buttons for 5-10 secs. All this seemed to do was a factory reset of the machine. My pre-programmed single and double shots that I had set up disappeared and I had to reset them. Didn't go into the cleaning cycle.


 Sorry, I think mine must have already wanted a clean when I did that. I've tried again and you're right, it just resets the program, there doesn't seem to be a way of manually starting the cleaning process.


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## Stobbs

Jamie K said:


> Sorry, I think mine must have already wanted a clean when I did that. I've tried again and you're right, it just resets the program, there doesn't seem to be a way of manually starting the cleaning process.


 No worries Jamie, thanks for the suggestion. Surely there must be a way to go directly into that particular cleaning cycle without having to wait for the machine to register 200 cups. Will keep looking.


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## longhardgrind

Are you turning the machine off before pressing single and double button and holding them down while you press the on button, then waiting five to ten seconds until the cleaning cycle starts?


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## Jamie K

longhardgrind said:


> Are you turning the machine off before pressing single and double button and holding them down while you press the on button, then waiting five to ten seconds until the cleaning cycle starts?


 There is no on button on the Bambino Plus, I think those instructions are for the Batista Express, etc.


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## facboy

Perhaps you are meant to turn the machine off and then turn it on by holding down the 1- and 2-cup buttons simultaneously for 5 seconds. Similar to how you enter descaling mode by holding down the 1-cup and Steam buttons for 5 seconds with the machine off.


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## Jamie K

facboy said:


> Perhaps you are meant to turn the machine off and then turn it on by holding down the 1- and 2-cup buttons simultaneously for 5 seconds. Similar to how you enter descaling mode by holding down the 1-cup and Steam buttons for 5 seconds with the machine off.


 As stated above that resets the program.


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## Stobbs

Funnily enough, our machine just started yesterday with the flashing 200 cup lights. So, today I ran through the cleaning cycle, but this time, I dissolved the tablet first before pouring it over the round blanking disc in the portafilter. Now, I have to say, that tablet took bloomin ages and some grinding to get dissolved (no wonder it is mostly left intact when you just sit it whole in the rubber disc), but when I poured it in, and started the cleaning cycle, I have to say, it seemed to behave in a very different manner and take longer to go through the whole process, with cleaning fluid not only flushing out through the overflow port into the tray but also out the portafilter. I'm waiting till tomorrow morning to see what the results are, if any, but it certainly seemed to behave differently. Worth a try.


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## Alan94

Hey Stobbs, what was the result?


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## Adav92

Interested to know the answer to this too? I am due a clean. Cheers


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## Stobbs

Hi folks. Well, have to say, not much difference to the quality of milk foam, but I still think it was worth it dissolving the tablet prior to starting the cleaning process as it definitely seemed to perform a much more through cycle. It certainly used it all up which is much better than having 90% of the tablet sat there undissolved.

I'm going to try some heavy duty descale cycles on my days off. There's got to be something going on inside that is causing the machine to produce a poorer quality of milk foam. I took a video of the milk wand process when we very first got this machine (this is our third machine!) and it was amazing. Milk to the lower mark of the jug, steam button on three, milk temp on three, and it was virtually filling the whole jug by the end of the cycle. Nowadays, we fill the milk to the max mark, same three setting for the milk foam, and by the end it is a good 2 cm down from the top of the jug, mostly just liquid, hardly any dense foam. Really frustrating. Exact same milk, same conditions. That's why it must be something going on inside that has degraded through time. So either it's the cleaning or there is a pressure fault with the boiler system.


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## Stobbs

Update for anyone interested.

The quality of the milk being produced just got worse, to the point of being non-existent. And flashing lights continually after each milk foaming episode. After a week or two of emails with Sage a lovely new Bambino arrived yesterday. This is our 4th machine. Made a coffee last night and it was, of course, fantastic. The quality of the milk foam was amazing. But you can hear the difference in the tone/noise of the pump with it working well and efficiently. Would love to know what goes on with them through time to degrade the quality of the milk foam.

Hey ho.


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## Jamie K

Stobbs said:


> This is our 4th machine.


 4th?! Did the other two have the same issue?


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## Stobbs

The 1st machine wouldn't go into it's cleaning cycle after 200 cups. The next 2 machines both had the same very poor milk foaming issues through time. Didn't matter how much I cleaned and descaled, it just seemed the pressure/boiler didn't consistently keep producing that lovely dense milk foam. Shame, such a wonderful machine. But SAGE just keep changing it. they stated they wouldn't send an engineer out to try to resolve any issues with this model.


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## facboy

as in they just replace?


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## Stobbs

Yep, they just send a brand new machine out. On our 4th one. You can authorise a holding charge on your card whilst they send the new machine out, you put the old one in the box and send it back, once they receive it then cancel the holding charge.


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## mmyco178hh

Stobbs said:


> No worries Jamie, thanks for the suggestion. Surely there must be a way to go directly into that particular cleaning cycle without having to wait for the machine to register 200 cups. Will keep looking.


 This is crazy, the reviews on the Breville/Sage sites are filled with people trying to access cleaning mode. Breville's standard response is to call in. Frustrating.


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## ArkellvsPressdram

I've yet to have an issue with the cleaning cycle on a Bambino+, I would say that the "keep button depressed for X secs" instruction seems to use some slow seconds it always seems to need longer than actually stated in the instructions.


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## Butty

I get exactly the same issue, the descaler tablet nearly dissolves and nothing comes through the lance into a 2L container... I personally believe that the instructions are quite aligned with the product for whatever reason. I'm going to run liquid descaler through the machine and run the full descale cycle when it starts its light show!


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## facboy

Butty said:


> I get exactly the same issue, the descaler tablet nearly dissolves and nothing comes through the lance into a 2L container... I personally believe that the instructions are quite aligned with the product for whatever reason. I'm going to run liquid descaler through the machine and run the full descale cycle when it starts its light show!


 there is no descale tablet, descaling is a sachet of powder that must be dissolved in the water tank.


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## Danielle Henripin

I have a recent machine, no hole in cleaning disk. I just performed my second cleaning cycle and it seemed to go much better than the first, so I wanted to share. The key is that when - and only when - those one and two-cup lights are flashing alternately, you need to hold them both down for a full 5 seconds. This is what activates the cleaning cycle (where those 2 buttons stay illuminated). I did that and the process went as described by others, with fairly long pauses between the flushing cycles. It stopped after about 5 minutes of this and and went back into ready mode. At this point, the drip tray was very full, so I emptied it. The tablet was dissolved but the water tank was still more than half-full so I removed the rubber disk and just went into coffee-making mode (using no coffee), going through several cycles to flush out the system with the remaining water.


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## dutchy101

So I've just performed my first cleaning cycle on my Bambino Plus. I've only had the machine for a month. Typically I make 3 / 4 coffees a day since I've had the machine, but this will be roughly 8 shots being run through the machine for warming cups / the portafilter and cleaning it after the last coffee, so I suppose that is about right as far as 200 shots is concerned. I used the dual wall single cup in the portafilter with the rubber cleaning disk (with no hole). It all seemed to go fine although the tablet had not fully dissolved similar to the issue with the original poster. I will use the 2nd and last one I received with the machine when the time comes to do it again - probably a month from now, but may try to dissolve this first. I think I'll be buying powder to do this instead of tablets beyond the tablets that came with the machine.


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## Wisey

@dutchy101

puly caff 2 900g bottles for £16.66 on amazon


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## dutchy101

Brilliant stuff mate - cheers. Had no idea what it was called


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## UriStamonov

Just a note to say I have experienced the exact same issue as the original post.

ie: Tablet not dissolved, etc.

As stated, this is the "backflush" clean.

I have a rubber blanking disk without a hole.

What is interesting is that I have also been trying to manually enter this cleaning mode, before the 200-shot flashing light prompt.

Mine seems to work the same way as seen here:






ie: pressing both buttons enters the backflush cleaning mode, rather than the factory reset.

However, it only seems to perform the backflush once, which is not enough to dissolve the tablet.

Cleaning tablet manufacturers seem to say that this procedure needs to be run at least 5 times (i.e.: Cafetto: https://www.cafetto.com/product/espresso-clean-tablets ).

This is a faff but if I do it 5-6 times then it does dissolve the tablet and cleans the machine, all via the drip tray.

I don't recall how many times the automatic (i.e.: blinking light) cycle performs the backflush - can anyone remember? Is it just once like the manual mode, or does it repeat it several times?

Anyway...the lack of accurate info from Sage is very annoying. Someone must have programmed the microcontroller in the unit to do all these things so this info should be known, as well as the button presses needed to access the functions.

Come on Sage, sort it out!

On a side note...does anyone know how long the standard pre-infusion is for pre-programmed shots? Would be good to have a baseline when manually pulling shots.

Thanks

Uri


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## facboy

@UriStamonov i don't think that video is accurate...i think what you're doing is entering the programming state (like everybody else), but because you're running it with the disc in it just runs forever until it gives up and purges the pressure.

try entering the programming state without the disc in and just let it run (into a big enough container), it will stop by itself eventually too. when it is running the 'real' cleaning cycle it doesn't run each stage for anywhere near that long.


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## Jamie K

I agree, you can tell it's not the cleaning cycle because only one of the lights is flashing.


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## UriStamonov

That's interesting, thanks facboy / Jamie K.

Makes sense.

I wonder if there really is a manual way to enter the cleaning cycle? This is especially important if you want to do some extra backflushing to get rid of undissolved cleaning tabs...right?


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## facboy

if there is i don't think anybody has worked out what it is.

i imagine popping in the blanking disc and running a few 5-second manual extractions (letting the machine have a break in between) would probably be a decent approximation. ie just manually run the automatic cycle.


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## UriStamonov

That sounds good.

I had a mess about with the buttons today but couldn't find anything other than the descale cycle and the shot setup.

As an aside I bought some Urnex Cafiza cleaning tabs from Amazon. Used one today as the cleaning cycle was due, and it certainly dissolved more than the bundled tabs did.

At least there was some foamed cleaner that made it through the backflush into the drip tray!

There must be a way to trigger the clean manually, there must!


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## Masher

So the video is completely out of sinc with reality as is the not yet updated instruction manual...not impressed.

My wand function is not working at all after 9 months ...with water flushing through head instead of steaming through wand? so ordered some descaling powder to see if that helps...no joy I'll be on to CS.

Using Waldo clean tablets purchased through amazon...makes sense to me that it's an enclosed cleaning disk with no holes so it back flushes the system.

You can perform this when cleaning light illuminates or at any time on Barista Express by turning machine off...pushing 1 and 2 cup buttons simultaneously then pushing on button ..holding all three down till machine sparks up into cleaning mode.

Two runs through and tab was dissolved then I took disk out and ran a cycle into bowl...just to finish ...water in drip tray was much more coloured on both flushes with disc in so for me shows its cleaning...last flush through head slightly cloudy but probably not needed.

Hope this helps folks ..will let you know how descale goes ...no joy and it will be going back 😉

Masher


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## Stobbs

Right campers, brief update. A couple of months ago we kindly received from Mr Sage, our 4th, yes 4th Bambino, and this is all within the space of 1 year. The previous one was sent back due to not making lovely dense milk foam after a couple of months. So I have been exploring and digging into this whole cleaning cycle malarkey, hence my presence here.

So, 4th Bambino, making beautiful cappuccinos, lovely dense milk foam, and then the other day, the 200 cup flashing lights of death!. Joy

Now, when we received this machine there were a few wee minor difference. Some packaging a bit different, both single and dual wall filter baskets, and some very minor changes to the manual.

But, first difference, pressing the milk button would NOT let me bypass the flashing one cup and two cup lights. The manual still says it will, but it won't. So I went straight into doing the cleaning cycle.

Blanking rubber disc (with NO holes) into the filter basket in the portafilter, supplied tablet (not pre-dissolved) sat in, and glass jug put under the group head just in case.

And you know what, for the first time ever I felt like it did a proper clean. It went on for ages, drained about 1/3rd of the full tank, totally dissolved the tablet, and the water coming through had a lovely foamy coffee tinge from cleaning . Properly seemed to do the job.

And now it's just continuing still making those lovely cappuccinos. So, next thing will be the descaling. Anyone recommend a decent powder to use for this?

Thanks


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## earthflattener

Fingers crossed for you on that. I'm also interested in hearing about the descaler. Sage do their own solution.

I hope I'm not hijacking, but it is a related issue, and I didn't want to needlessly spawn a new thread. I just received a reconditioned DB (very nice condition etc.). I wanted to do my first water backflush, but I noticed that using single baskets then the the portafilter will not rotate in properly whereas with both the double baskets it fist well and smoothly. The single baskets are marginally taller than the doubles, possibly 0.25mm and 1 mm resp. for the unpressured and the pressured. When I say can't fit, I think I would have to force them. Anyone seen similar or did they just give me a couple of poor quality aftermarket ones? In the end I did the backflush with the double pressurized and the rubber 'thingy' and the pressure seemed to build with no escape through the pf, so I assume the job is done well enough.


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## Wisey

Can anyone help with cleaning the DTP?

ive put the cleaning tablet in & the pf was full of bubbly water

how do I know if it actually went up into the machine (is it supposed to with it being the DTP?)

when I've run a shot after, the water was clear with a bit of coffee in.thus me thinking the group head etc hasn't cleaned properly?

next question - cleaning of the group head etc

ive undone the Alan key key from the group head but then how do I get the group head off? It didn't just pull off??


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## puffin1

I've always found breaking the cleaning tablet in two before putting it in the blanking disk helps it dissolve easier during the cleaning cycle. I use a generic tablet from amazon, think the brand is Cafiza and was around £10 for 100 tablets. It does the job without breaking the bank and should last a good few years.

In regards to descaling, again I use a generic descaler. They come in a box of 3 sachets from sainburys for a pound or two. I take the water filter out and then put it in to the reservoir and run a few shots through and then use the steam wand and hot water feature. I've generally leave it a while, I think it recommends how long on the packaging and with the water that I've extracted I put it in the kettle or whatever else needs descaling. Once It's done it's thing I put fresh water in and run several shots through everywhere.

Further to this, I recently had an issue with my machine, whilst conversing with Sage one of their recommendations was to leave the descaler in over night. Had they not have suggested it I'd have had concerns of it possibly causing O rings etc to perish prematurely. It didn't fix my machine but that turned out to need a part changing but I will in future periodically leave it descaling overnight, maybe every couple of months.

The group head comes off with a little help from a small flat head screwdriver, it doesn't take much prising off once you've taken the bolt out. I did this for the first time recently having owned the machine just over a year. I found a You Tube video and theirs was caked in coffee when they took it off which is what inspired me to clean mine but mine was almost spotless. I do however always run a shot of water through after I've removed the PF, I can only assume this is a good way to ensure it stays clean and clear.

Hope this helps.


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## earthflattener

Regarding cleaning of group head ... you have to prise off the shower head. There is a video online somewhere in which the guy uses a chopstick ... i.e something wooden so as not to scratch it. Worked for me


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## puffin1

If this link works it'll show you how to clean the group head.


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## Wisey

@puffin1

ah great thanks....will try that later

I went for the puly caff stuff machine cleaner (used the sage tablet which came with machine so not tried puly caff in machine yet)....

again- sage booklet says to leave steam wand tip in descaler overnight, puly caff bottle says to leave baskets etc in for 15mins...

so is puly caff that strong not to leave stuff in overnight?


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## puffin1

I use a specific milk cleaner for the wand by Puly, again from amazon. I always purge the wand after I've frothed my milk so it's never too bad but I put the cleaner in a jug and froth it up like you would the milk. The cleaner gets drawn back into the wand when you turn it off and I leave it submerged in the cleaner as this gets any stubborn residue off the outside of the wand. It gets left for half hour or so before I flush the wand with clean water for a while to get rid of any cleaning fluid.

You can unscrew the end of the wand if it's really crusted up, there's a tool to do this supplied with the machine.

I'm not sure if the cleaner used to run through the machine is designed to clean the wand specifically. I'm not saying it's not or that it can't be just that I personally use an alternative. I'd be interested to hear if anyone does as it'd save me buying another bottle of purly when it runs out.

I think the key to keeping your machine running smoothly is flushing the group head after removing the PF every shot and flushing the wand after removing it from the milk. Who wants to use a crusty wand anyway? If you do this each time you use it you'll find that your machine needs very little maintenance other than the routine cleaning cycle. This is my experience anyway and so far it seems to be working well.


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## Wisey

@puffin1

The DTP doesn't have a cleaning cycle...

this is my first machine hence why I'm getting a bit confused with the whole cleaning thing

i have seen the seperate wand cleaner so I understand where you're coming from

I do purge the wand after and clean immediately to get any milk off (not that I've used it much)..

im just really unsure about the cleaning of the group head/backflush so really wanting to hear from a few people who have/have had one as to how it is done/what it looks like (ie should frothy water be in the pf or should it be up in the machine & only come out when you run a shot after?


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## TomHughes

Wisey said:


> @puffin1
> 
> The DTP doesn't have a cleaning cycle...
> 
> this is my first machine hence why I'm getting a bit confused with the whole cleaning thing
> 
> i have seen the seperate wand cleaner so I understand where you're coming from
> 
> I do purge the wand after and clean immediately to get any milk off (not that I've used it much)..
> 
> im just really unsure about the cleaning of the group head/backflush so really wanting to hear from a few people who have/have had one as to how it is done/what it looks like (ie should frothy water be in the pf or should it be up in the machine & only come out when you run a shot after?


 FFS you shouldn't be backflushing, it doesn't have a solenoid! 
If it goes up in the machine you have a problem! 
The cleaning tablet is just for cleaning the group so will stay frothy in the PF.
You should have a disk with a hole in it.

FWIW you don't need the cleaning tabs, you just need to remove the shower screen every week and clean it out. 
Lever it out with something as others have said. Then clean it.


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## puffin1

My apologies, I didn't realise it didn't have a cleaning cycle like the others.

Excuse my ignorance but does the manual not suggest an alternative method of cleaning? If it doesn't suggest backflushing, like @TomHughes points out, then surely it doesn't need it and could do more harm than good.


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## TomHughes

puffin1 said:


> My apologies, I didn't realise it didn't have a cleaning cycle like the others.
> 
> Excuse my ignorance but does the manual not suggest an alternative method of cleaning? If it doesn't suggest backflushing, like @TomHughes points out, then surely it doesn't need it and could do more harm than good.


 I've probably said that 5 times already but no one is listening!


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## puffin1

TomHughes said:


> I've probably said that 5 times already but no one is listening!


 Maybe the 6th time they will 🤣


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## Wisey

@TomHughes @puffin1

to be clear - backflushing -

is the process of putting the blanking disc in the pf with a tablet/cleaning product in....you run the espresso cycle which ultimately pushes the water around the Machine & will come out when the blank disc is removed & shots run?

so, I have a blank disc, there is no hole....the sage manual states about the cleaning cycle above but doesn't use the phrase backflush...see photo below...as you see it doesn't state about having a basket in just the blanking disc in the pf.......so am I doing this right?

@TomHughes - I have tested the machine.....did about 6 shots & the machine didn't get above 90 degrees (shot 6)......shots 3/4/5 stayed around 88


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## TomHughes

Wisey said:


> @TomHughes @puffin1
> 
> to be clear - backflushing -
> 
> is the process of putting the blanking disc in the pf with a tablet/cleaning product in....you run the espresso cycle which ultimately pushes the water around the Machine & will come out when the blank disc is removed & shots run?
> 
> so, I have a blank disc, there is no hole....the sage manual states about the cleaning cycle above but doesn't use the phrase backflush...see photo below...as you see it doesn't state about having a basket in just the blanking disc in the pf.......so am I doing this right?
> 
> @TomHughes - I have tested the machine.....did about 6 shots & the machine didn't get above 90 degrees (shot 6)......shots 3/4/5 stayed around 88
> 
> View attachment 44410


 You have found the reason your shots are rubbish then. 
I'd send the machine back


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## Wisey

@TomHughes

so purely because it ain't getting upto 93 degrees?

I'll contact sage directly?


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## TomHughes

Wisey said:


> @TomHughes
> 
> so purely because it ain't getting upto 93 degrees?
> 
> I'll contact sage directly?


 Yep
If you did it exactly as I said, pre-warmed PF.
Single pressurised basket etc. 
Then 88 is not good enough.

When it comes to extracting coffee a few degrees can be critical. 89 can taste terrible, 92 can be spot on.

I wrangled for ages with sourness from my DTP, it could produce a nice shot from a dark roast, but medium to light absolutely no chance.

I think David (Blackcat) roasts lighter than many. The rave italian will be much darker and probably be fine in the DTP.

This seems a common problem with the DTP. Some seem to have been lucky and got a good one!


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## Guest

Hi all

like you all,we had similar problems with our Bambino when the flashing lights told us it needed cleaning!

With a little testing,I found Thant if you follow the instructions in the booklet..

ie hold the one cup and two cup buttons in for 5 seconds,they both stay lit up.If you press either 1 cup or 2 cups as instructed the lights will continue flashing and nothing happens.

well I got fed up of this and held in both of these buttons together and the process kicked off, albeit with All the cleaning stuff splashing into the drip tray rather than the 2 litre container!

after about 5 mins it completed the cycle and on checking the tablet had completely dissolved.

But as this splashes steam and hot water out the side,I suggest you put the machine on a waterproof tray whilst this happens.

Also you actually use very little water in the process.Dont know why they tell you to fill the tank to max!

let me know how you get on,fingers x that ne t time I use it the lights stay off!

Good luck


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## td2812

Thought I'd post in here instead of starting a new thread. My bambino which I've had since about May has recently gone cleaning mad! For example this week alone It has entered into cleaning mode with the two flashing lights three times! Now obviously this isn't right but was wondering whether anyone else has had this problem or if anyone else has any potential solutions?

Thanks!


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## Jamie K

td2812 said:


> Thought I'd post in here instead of starting a new thread. My bambino which I've had since about May has recently gone cleaning mad! For example this week alone It has entered into cleaning mode with the two flashing lights three times! Now obviously this isn't right but was wondering whether anyone else has had this problem or if anyone else has any potential solutions?
> 
> Thanks!


 I'd call Sage, especially since your machine is so young, their support is pretty good in my experience.


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## Scwheeler

It happened to me, Sage swapped the machine with no questions asked.

On the downside the newer Bambino I received it is no longer possible to bypass the cleaning mode which is great when half way through making a drink......


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## Jamie K

Just an update as the OP. I finally finished the original Sage tablets I was slowly crumbing into the cleaning disk for the cleaning cycle (which still weren't completely dissolving) and bought some proper cleaning powder (Urnex Cafiza). The difference is immense, I can now see the cleaning mixture bubbling down into the drip tray and no cleaning powder is left after the cleaning cycle, even though I use more of it than I was previously. I'm confused as to why the Sage tablets are so bad.


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## ajohn

I never had any problems with Sage tablets on the BE. Maybe a few tiny bits left. The cleaning disc at that time had the hole mostly for use with the DTP.

If some one wants to use powder I'd suggest adding a bit of water and stirring before fitting the portafilter and running the backflush or maybe run it a 2nd time without any powder so just plain water.


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## kennyboy993

Does anyone know if sage published a corrected version of the user manual to address the cleaning cycle confusion?

Bambino that is


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## Jamie K

@kennyboy993 As far as I know the manual was always fine, if vague/ambiguous, it was the official video linked in the OP that confused me. And the fact that the tablet lay undissolved in the blanking disk.

I note the original video is now unlisted.


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## kennyboy993

Ok thanks Jamie.

I think my manual instructs putting the blanking rubber in to the basket and using that during cleaning cycle - which would basically flood the drip tray within a short amount of time


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## ajohn

kennyboy993 said:


> Ok thanks Jamie.
> 
> I think my manual instructs putting the blanking rubber in to the basket and using that during cleaning cycle - which would basically flood the drip tray within a short amount of time


 Odd but BE again. Manual mentions emptying the drip tray before maintenance and yes water will go into the drip tray as that is where back flush water needs to go. This is using the machines back flush program though. I'd assume they haven't changed that. There are pauses and etc to allow the tablets to dissolve.


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## Jamie K

kennyboy993 said:


> Ok thanks Jamie.
> 
> I think my manual instructs putting the blanking rubber in to the basket and using that during cleaning cycle - which would basically flood the drip tray within a short amount of time


 Yeah that's what mine says too, which is what I do. I don't get flooding, only a very small amount of water back flushes for each cycle.


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## kennyboy993

Ah ok cheers I'll try it then. You have no hole in your blanking rubber? I don't - I heard some did


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## kennyboy993

Btw I'm talking about bambino here - should have said


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## Jamie K

@kennyboy993 Yeah mine's the same, a Bambino Plus with no hole in the blanking disk.


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## ajohn

ajohn said:


> The cleaning disc at that time had the hole mostly for use with the DTP.


 Add one if you want one. Pin. They dropped the hole some time ago which causes a bit of a problem on a DTP as no 3 way to get rid of the pressure.


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## kennyboy993

Jamie K said:


> @kennyboy993 Yeah mine's the same, a Bambino Plus with no hole in the blanking disk.


Ah cool. I guess the only confusing bit in the manual then is it stating to add a jug under the group


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## Wisey

I asked about cleaning cycles ages ago.

someone on here said about the DTP & I can't remember the terminology but basically saying the cleaning liquid doesn't actually go up into the machine, so ja must cleans the group head area...

If this is the case what's the point doing it, why not just take the shower screen etc off and clean?

Someone more experience please clear up my hazy memories & clarify I am right?


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## longhardgrind

When I had a DTP I used to backflush every couple of weeks, after taking the shower screen off and giving everything a good clean. I figured that while it wasn't flushing all the way back through the system, it would at least clear out any residue in the pipe imediately above the group head.


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## facboy

my bambino plus is using cold water to do the cleaning cycle, anybody else experienced this? this is the second time (in a row) it's done it, i swear previously it was hot water.

in normal use the machine heats water/steams just fine.


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## facboy

facboy said:


> my bambino plus is using cold water to do the cleaning cycle, anybody else experienced this? this is the second time (in a row) it's done it, i swear previously it was hot water.
> 
> in normal use the machine heats water/steams just fine.


 well I rang Sage and they said it didn't sound right, asked for the usual details and then on Thu emailed to say Coffee Classics would be in touch to do a warranty repair. On Fri I got a shipping notification, today (Saturday) a brand new Bambino Plus landed on my doorstep. Happy with the speed of response, not entirely sure how I feel about the solution being 'new machine'. There are small design differences with the old one, in particularly apparently you can manually enter the cleaning cycle now, though I haven't tried that out yet.

I'll have to get back in touch now to see if they want the old one back, and if not (I suspect not) what I will do with it .


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## Calan

@Stobbs:

I've had my Bambino Plus for about a year now and really love it. But every time the cleaning cycle comes up, I get stressed out. I've never thought it works correctly, because all the videos I've seen of the process with Sage espresso machines show the water coming straight through the portafilter.

I just went through the process again and as usual the BP sounds like it's being killed during the process with occasional 'pops' for backflush due to what I gather is too much pressure, with a splash of water onto the wall behind the group head, no water in the bowl, and the drip tray close to full.

This just doesn't feel right...

So I finally thought to search forums and came across this thread. From what I've read, I was getting the feeling that this actually is how it's meant to work. But then you said this about your newest BP (which you got about six months after I got mine, which also has a blanking disc with no holes, but didn't come with single-wall cups -- I had to buy them separately myself):



Stobbs said:


> Blanking rubber disc (with NO holes) into the filter basket in the portafilter, supplied tablet (not pre-dissolved) sat in, and glass jug put under the group head just in case.
> 
> And you know what, for the first time ever I felt like it did a proper clean. It went on for ages, drained about 1/3rd of the full tank, totally dissolved the tablet, and the water coming through had a lovely foamy coffee tinge from cleaning . Properly seemed to do the job


 This sounds like you're saying the the water is coming straight through the portafilter, rather than backflush to the dripping tray? (I couldn't imagine 1/3 of the water from the tank fitting in the drip tray?)

So I'm back wondering how this is meant to work and whether mine is working or not...


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## ajohn

The hole in the disk went some time ago so no water comes out of the portafilter. They don't seem to have updated the manual.  so best check there is no hole in case it appears again.

The only machine that needs the hole is the DTP.

The back flush cycle wont use anything like 1/3 of a tank full.

The descale cycle will use a lot.

Sounds like some may need to read the manual to see which one is needed.


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## dutchy101

Calan said:


> @Stobbs:
> 
> I've had my Bambino Plus for about a year now and really love it. But every time the cleaning cycle comes up, I get stressed out. I've never thought it works correctly, because all the videos I've seen of the process with Sage espresso machines show the water coming straight through the portafilter.
> 
> I just went through the process again and as usual the BP sounds like it's being killed during the process with occasional 'pops' for backflush due to what I gather is too much pressure, with a splash of water onto the wall behind the group head, no water in the bowl, and the drip tray close to full.
> 
> This just doesn't feel right...
> 
> So I finally thought to search forums and came across this thread. From what I've read, I was getting the feeling that this actually is how it's meant to work. But then you said this about your newest BP (which you got about six months after I got mine, which also has a blanking disc with no holes, but didn't come with single-wall cups -- I had to buy them separately myself):
> 
> This sounds like you're saying the the water is coming straight through the portafilter, rather than backflush to the dripping tray? (I couldn't imagine 1/3 of the water from the tank fitting in the drip tray?)
> 
> So I'm back wondering how this is meant to work and whether mine is working or not...


 That's working perfectly mate. If the water flowed through the portafilter something is wrong.


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## facboy

I think they've updated the machine at least once in the last few years. Just read the manual that came with your machine (the online one might be different!) and follow the instructions in it. If you're still not sure, contact Sage.

I agree with dutchy101, what you describe was exactly how my old one used to work. Haven't tried on the new machine yet but i'm pretty sure it will be the same.


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## arnold ziffel

Border_all said:


> One thing you could try is get a cup of clean water pop the wand in and steam away, sometimes if you don't run enough steam after foaming it can get slightly blocked. Worth a shot


 Physically cleaning the wand holes with the tool provided under the water tank significantly increased the steam pressure for me.


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