# Lever or pump?



## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I've been a member here for a while now and I'm still no wiser.

I'm looking for a new machine. I need good steaming power since we drink mostly cappas. Also looking for brilliant shots. Have even less idea whether I should be looking for a pump or a lever and if so which?

Don't like vibe pumps. Plumbing in would be difficult. Ideas please...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Whats in the wallet?


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Guess budget is the factor - how deep are your pockets?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

If its within your budget, take a look at a La Spaziale Mini.

Tank fed with masses of steam power. Or for a little more a La Spaz Vivaldi II. The latter needs plumbing in or it can work with a separate tank & it has a rotary pump.


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

I've just bought a Leva DB rotary plumbed in, fantastic machine, love it.

Really good for steaming milk, takes about a minute for a cappa.


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## grumpydaddy (Oct 20, 2014)

If your pockets are not so deep I have a fracino classic in for sale... Rotary pump and should be plumbed but works fine from a separate tank/bottle and steams like a train (oops showing my age again)


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Any machine of note will steam well, or ought to. The argument is far deeper than that though. If you ask this question to a pump man you will get a pump recommendation, and the same of a lever. this is all about preferring the taste of one machine over another. The only retailer who seems to have a decent range of machines to compare is BB. the only lever they have is a QuickMill Veloce which is very capable, but as others will leap to say, is not an L1.

I simply do not believe, that the average person could tell the difference on a blind taste test between a Rocket, an ECM, Exposer or anything else. that aid, put a pump up against a lever and you will


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

twotone said:


> Really good for steaming milk, takes about a minute for a cappa.


Under 20 secs....


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## sjenner (Nov 8, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Any machine of note will steam well, or ought to. The argument is far deeper than that though. If you ask this question to a pump man you will get a pump recommendation, and the same of a lever. this is all about preferring the taste of one machine over another. The only retailer who seems to have a decent range of machines to compare is BB. the only lever they have is a QuickMill Veloce which is very capable, but as others will leap to say, is not an L1.
> 
> I simply do not believe, that the average person could tell the difference on a blind taste test between a Rocket, an ECM, Exposer or anything else. that aid, put a pump up against a lever and you will


I thought BB were Strega dealers Dave? That's both a lever and a pump machine... isn't it?


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## twotone (Jan 13, 2015)

jeebsy said:


> Under 20 secs....


I'm a noob with this machine:coffee:


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I'm recommend a session with @funinacup if you want to work on your latte art/steaming


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Thanks all! In an ideal world the budget would be up to £1200 but could be stretched if I had my heart really set on something. I'm also not averse to second-hand provided I know the history.

Bought the current machine second hand and that's worked out well except it's a single boiler and I'm bored with temp surfing and waiting for temperature changes to steam and then cooling for the next shot. However, it does steam enough milk for one cappa in very short order once it's up to temp. I'll time it later but it feels like 10-15 seconds.

I quite like the idea of a lever but haven't even had a coffee from one in donkeys years. If I had and liked it I would have jumped on the last L1 to go on sale here. Definitely see the attraction in old Faema machines like the Lambro.

The Brewtus is on my list as is the Profitec, ECM, La Spaz, L1, Strega and Quickmill. Of these only three or four are really in reach new.

I'm also going to be in the market for a grinder since my shoulders are playing up and the manual grinding isn't helping.









@Grumpydaddy thanks for the thought but the Classic is a bit big for my bench.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

sjenner said:


> I thought BB were Strega dealers Dave? That's both a lever and a pump machine... isn't it?


The Strega is on the books but they do not stock it. It is a hybrid in the sense that unlike a true lever where the spring pulls the shot, the Strega has a pump to do the same meaning you can play around and guess at varying the pressure through the puck, but, if you are an enthusiast, Strega is a dirty word!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There was a non pump version of the strega too at one point....

I've had excellent coffee from levers and pump machines... ( mostly not made by me ) . dunno if I could tell the difference between a expobar or a rocket shot , never tried or had the inclination too.

I suspect There has been some stonking coffee made throughout the the 20th century on faema e61 machines as an example...as well as from old vintage levers....

The lever does something different in terms of pressure and temp profile that an e61 can't do (not even the vesuvius ) . if differs between individuals whether they can taste that difference or whether they prefer it ...

Try before you buy if you can...machines in that range ( £1200 plus ) , should make excellent espresso when in capable hands .


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## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

If you don't mind the travel get yourself down to BB and play around with a short list of machines, it's the only way to decide which machine is for you!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Boots, are you sure about a non pump version of the Strega? Not to my knowledge but prepared to be proved wrong.There was a dutch guy who very occasionally came on here dioisconnected his pump and tried to run it off line pressure, but thats a bit like dismantling your 4 wheel drive and twisting some rubber bands


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Boots, are you sure about a non pump version of the Strega? Not to my knowledge but prepared to be proved wrong.There was a dutch guy who very occasionally came on here dioisconnected his pump and tried to run it off line pressure, but thats a bit like dismantling your 4 wheel drive and twisting some rubber bands


Im sure if I'm wrong you will let me know

I thought early on you could request one to be made as a traditional lever ( no pump ) .

Whether this still is the case i dont know

Ive read some posts on other forums relating to people who purchased the non pump version ....ill see if i can find them

Academic if they wont produce it now anyway ..


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Not interested in letting you know as to me, I have no problem in being wrong. Just saying I had not heard of it thats all. See if you can find the links though


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

@Soll Thanks for that. BB is a long drive from here though.


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

I checked the steaming time and it's around 20 seconds. Seems plenty fast enough to me so any machine that keeps up with that would be fine. However, the steam from the Vibiemme is not especially 'dry'. I suspect this is due to the small size of the boiler meaning that the agitation caused by boiling results in some water finding its way into the steam tube. I'd be happier with dryer steam if possible.

Any thoughts on the dryness or otherwise of steam from L1, Brewtus, Profitec etc.?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

L1 is a steaming beast , tons of dry steam , really powerful...

this is about 3-4 oz of milk


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## 7493 (May 29, 2014)

Nice! Thanks Boots!


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