# E61 maintenance



## Wolvesnev (Nov 11, 2018)

Hi all,

I'm in the process of looking for a new machine, and I've narrowed it down to a Lelit Mara or a Sage DB. The thing putting me off the Lelit is the amount of maintenance that appears to be required on the group head. Having never had one, I don't know how much is actually needed, or how long it takes.

I spend a lot of time away from home with work, and when I am home I have 3 year old twins, so i'm particularly time poor. I don't want to spend hours each month servicing, stripping the group head etc.

Any guidance, thoughts, advice, experience or abuse gratefully received!


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## _shakeyjake_ (Dec 16, 2016)

It's not a huge amount of maintenance to be honest. I have recently got an e61 group head based machine. Once you get your head around how it works it's easy. Yes, you do have to grease the lever every now and again after cleaning but it's a process that takes 15 minutes at most. And out of the few months I've had mine only done it once.

Both machines will need cleaning. Either back-flushing for the Mara or what ever the process is for the sage. And they both will need descaling. The greasing of the lever cam is the only extra maintenance.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

You can avoid descaling for years by using suitable "boiler friendly" water, such as Waitrose Essentials, Volvic or Tesco Ashbeck, or a mix of them.

Have you considered the heating up time of the E61 grouphead? It takes around 30 to 45 minutes, depending on the machine. I owned an e61 machine for over 2 years. Once you get the gist, lubricating the cam lever is very easy. The first time it's intimidating, but in reality it's easy. You'll need adjustable jaws or a suitable spanner with protectors unless you want to destroy the chrome.

You'll need to do so every time you chemically backflush the group, as the detergent will strip any lubricant or coffee oils build up.

The e61 group head is great: thermally stable, forgiving, easy to maintain and repair, with parts easily available, very simple in design. Personally, would I go back to one, being the sole coffee drinker in the home? For me, sadly it's a no, due to the maintenance routine and heat up time.

Would I buy a Sage DB? No, for the opposite reasons: can't get parts or service easily. If/ when they break, its most likely too expensive to repair or not viable to do so. Would I have one if it wasn't my money? Absolutely!

There will always be pros and cons. You need to evaluate what suits you best and go for it.

Oh, don't forget the grinder


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## Wolvesnev (Nov 11, 2018)

@MediumRoastSteam you've just hit the nail on the head. You wouldn't go back to E61 based on, amongst other things, the maintenance requirements. That's my issue. Likewise, your thoughts on the Sage are in line with mine, it seems hard/expensive to repair.

Out of interest, what machine do you have now? Search has taken on a new sense of urgency after this morning my 10 yr old Delonghi decided to stop putting out steam from the steam arm, and instead steaming itself internally!


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Get a solenoid operated E61 like the ACS Minima, almost no maintenance required beyond cleaning shower screen. That only takes 60s


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## Wolvesnev (Nov 11, 2018)

I would love a minima, but I can't afford it unfortunately. In addition, a quick google search seems to indicate that coffee Italia are the only Uk stockists, and we all know what their reputation is like.


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Wolvesnev said:


> @MediumRoastSteam you've just hit the nail on the head. You wouldn't go back to E61 based on, amongst other things, the maintenance requirements. That's my issue. Likewise, your thoughts on the Sage are in line with mine, it seems hard/expensive to repair.
> 
> Out of interest, what machine do you have now? Search has taken on a new sense of urgency after this morning my 10 yr old Delonghi decided to stop putting out steam from the steam arm, and instead steaming itself internally!


Maintenance was one aspect, heat up time was the other.

I now have a La Pavoni Europiccola. It heats up fast and maintenance is easy and relatively cheap. There isn't a great des tong to wrong either, as it doesn't have electronics. 

You need a good grinder though. Don't overlook that.

The minima looks great and I was looking into them, but the heat up time is the issue for me. If more people drank coffee in my household, then I'd be all over it.


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## Wolvesnev (Nov 11, 2018)

Thanks. I'm hoping my Rocky should be just about passable to achieve semi-decent results, then when i've got more cash (after the kids start school next year!) I can get something like a Niche. Clearly it's not ideal, but given my old machine has finally given up the ghost, the new machine takes precedence over upgrading the grinder.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

Just to add some balance. There is a Heat up time with E61 groups, the maintenance on the Lever versions really is easy and minimal. An E61 takes 30m, possibly up to 40m to warm up fully.. This can be shortened by draping a tea towle over the group, possibly 20m or so. Of course the advent of cheap smart switches (wemo style) for £12-£15 mean some quite complex on/off schedules can be catered for, with multiple (as many as you want) on off times during the day. e.g. on at 7:24 for coffee at 7:55, off at 8:05 because you have gone to work. on again at 6pm ready and waiting for you to arrive home at 6:30. This schedule can vary by day and be different for the weekends. With a little setup, the machine can be ready when you need to use it....or turned on/off via your smartphone wherever you are.

However that heat up time is part of what gives the E61 it's performance. I wouldn't discount it so easily and there are many used machines that come up for sale on here if budget is a problem.


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

The only thing worth mentioning about smart plugs is to get ones that have the raised section as shown, so the switches on a double socket are not obscured or half on/off and that it can support 13A. A lot don't have the raised section and are problematic.


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## Wolvesnev (Nov 11, 2018)

Thanks Dave,

i'm not put off by the heat up time, it's purely maintenance that has me questioning. I'm attracted to the Mara due to the size (or lack of) as space in my kitchen is at a premium. I clearly bow to your superior knowledge on maintenance, and if you're saying that additional maintenance is minimal and straightforward then i'm more than happy to take your word for it!


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## _shakeyjake_ (Dec 16, 2016)

I tend to do a water only back flush most days/everyother day, after coffee making. Not necessarily needed but helps keep it clean without use of detergent.

I do a proper detergent clean (puly caf I think) once a month. You may get away with a longer space between cleaning. Recommendations seem to vary.

I use a timer plug on mine too. Means you've got nice warm cups and machine when you get up! Such a good investment.


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

Having owned an e61 and now the sage db I'd say be careful as they are quite different propositions.

A timed internet plug can go some way to counter the long heat up times of an e61 though doesn't address every use case.

The e61 prosumer machines are just that - a semi professional bit of kit not optimised for the home. They are beautiful things to behold albeit.

The sage db is a sophisticated kitchen appliance - you turn it on to make a drink and then turn it off or let it auto turn off within 20 mins. When I look at it in the corner of my kitchen I don't get the desire I used to get from the Italian lump of polished steel that used to sit there - but I don't want to anymore either.

I would say that if you're the only coffee drinker in the house the business case for a prosumer e61 is hard one IMO.

For me, if you want great coffee and are an enthusiast then get the e61. If you just want great coffee get the sage.

In terms of longevity - the sage comes with 3 years warranty from Lakeland who will price match.


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