# Second heating element failure



## johnbenallen

About 3 years ago we bought a Silvia v3 here in Luxembourg. After less than a year, the heating element burnt out and was replaced under guarantee by the local dealer (S-presso) that we had bought the Silvia from. As part of the repair they put in a v4-style boiler (I hope I have the version numbers right) where the heating element is separate from the boiler.

Late last year the Silvia failed again. The dealer diagnosed yet another failed heating element, and is currently trying to obtain the correct part to replace; this seems to be a slow process. The repair won't be under guarantee - it's going to cost around 200 euros.

My question is: is it common to have two failed heating elements in 3 years? Can we do something to reduce the chances of this happening again?


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## GaryG

johnbenallen said:


> About 3 years ago we bought a Silvia v3 here in Luxembourg. After less than a year, the heating element burnt out and was replaced under guarantee by the local dealer (S-presso) that we had bought the Silvia from. As part of the repair they put in a v4-style boiler (I hope I have the version numbers right) where the heating element is separate from the boiler.
> 
> Late last year the Silvia failed again. The dealer diagnosed yet another failed heating element, and is currently trying to obtain the correct part to replace; this seems to be a slow process. The repair won't be under guarantee - it's going to cost around 200 euros.
> 
> My question is: is it common to have two failed heating elements in 3 years? Can we do something to reduce the chances of this happening again?


I also did this.

I was told by the guy who fixed it you have to purge the water through the filter when you first turn it on as the water can sometimes drop back into the tank causing the element to heat with no water in it will warp and bend it and cause it to break

Not had an issue in over 2 years now I know


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## Farravi

Gary I don't follow. Can you please explain what filter and what's the process to avoid this happening?


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## greymda

after you steam, let's say, you open the steam knob and push the hot water, and stop it when you're getting steady water coming out of the wand (you're refilling the boiler).

also, from time to time, when you turn on your machine - push the brew button and let some water go thru the group, thus refilling the boiler, too.


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## johnbenallen

Now, nearly 6 months after leaving the Silvia at the shop for repair, the shop has emailed me to say that they cannot get the replacement heating element, either from Rancilio or from a third-party parts supplier.

I'm going to pick up the Silvia and have a go at fixing it myself.

My first thought was that this part is not that difficult to find on the internet. But is this true? The first site I looked at seems to list the part, but then says that it is "not in stock":

http://www.theespressoshop.co.uk/en/Rancilio-Silvia-Element-and-Gasket-New-Style-OEM/m-3330.aspx#ProductDescription

The other Silvia spares listed on this site (gaskets, valves, thermostats...) do seem to be in stock, so I am wondering if there is a particular problem with the heating elements. Or maybe it's just high demand if they fail so often.

Obviously I will continue to look for a supplier in the EU who has this part in stock. However, if anyone here has suggestions, I would be grateful.


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## 4085

try this bunch

http://www.ferrari-espresso.com/?s=silvia&submit=Search&post_type=product


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## johnealey

V4 boiler element in stock

https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/220-240v-heating-element-for-rancilio-silvia.html

Elements only tend to burn out due to lack of water as described above. As long as when done steaming you pull water through the grouphead and do the same when turning on (so as to fill the boiler) with the exception of wear and tear they're pretty bulletproof.

Hope of help

John


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## johnbenallen

@dfk41, @johnealey: thanks for the quick answers.

Now I see 2 possible sources:

For £57 + £15 postage: http://www.ferrari-espresso.com/product/element-inox-for-2013-onwards-rancilio-silvia/

For £45 + £15 postage: https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/220-240v-heating-element-for-rancilio-silvia.html

Any reason not to go with BellaBarista?

I guess I'd better get the Silvia back first just to confirm which type of heating element was fitted.


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## johnealey

Bella Barista are forum sponsors / advertisers and genuinely good people to deal with (not that Ferrari espresso aren't).

Quick call to them will confirm if correct part No.

Cheers

John


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## johnbenallen

johnealey said:


> Bella Barista are forum sponsors / advertisers and genuinely good people to deal with (not that Ferrari espresso aren't).
> 
> Quick call to them will confirm if correct part No.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> John


Thanks.

I haven't succeeded in collecting my Silvia from the shop yet, so I won't now be able to follow up on this until next week (I'm coming to London tomorrow to join the pro-EU march on Saturday to mark the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome!).


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## Father_Java

I have a Silvie v4. Just under 2 years old. Purchased from Bella Barista.

About 2 months ago, it started randomly blowing the house trip.

A quick email to BB and they diagnosed a faulty heating element.

I was/am on a long term visit to the French Alps. BB very kindly shipped a replacement element to me here in the mountains, Free of Charge.

Changed the element and it cured the problem.

On close inspection, it appeared that the element must have had a pin hole in it somewhere as water had been weeping up and past one of the terminals. Apart from the signs of rust, the element looked perfect.

I can't thank BB enough for their fantastic service.









Note very slight signs of rust around the left terminal - enough to randomly blow the house trip


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## shadow745

I've been using an older model Silvia (made in 2005) that I bought used about 4 months ago. I always flush water on start up, after steaming (which I hardly do) and anytime the machine sits idle for 15-20 minutes. May seem like a hassle, but it ensures the boiler stays full and a very small amount of time/effort to safeguard against an element burning out.

My machine is the old style in which the element is welded into the boiler half. If I ever experience an issue with it I will more than likely half to upgrade to the newer style boiler unless I were to get lucky and score an old style replacement. Just another reason to maximize preventive maintenance.


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## johnbenallen

I finally managed to retrieve my Silvia, and I ordered the element from Bella Barista. It should arrive in Luxembourg by Thursday or Friday.

However, on closer inspection of the Silvia, I'm seeing two things that puzzle me.

First, the resistance across the heating element terminals is around 50 ohms. This doesn't seem consistent with a simple heating element failure.

Second, there is a striking "hole" burnt through the white insulation on one of the terminals (see photos).









Does anyone know what is going on here?

Quick edit: this may be a related problem, but there are no photos: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?28102-Rancilio-Silvia-Heater-element-problems


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## El carajillo

Loose connection and arcing ??. Do you have a reading between either terminal and the boiler case ??

I had similar "burn" results from a slack connection on a overheat stat.


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## johnbenallen

Between either terminal and the boiler case there is no continuity (infinite resistance).


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## Father_Java

Is it possible that water has been seeping up through the insulator and has caused 'tracking/arcing' across the insulator to the metal?

The staining could also be explained by water seepage.

My element showed similar symptoms although not as bad.

If your element was leaking, I would have expected your trip to have blown long before things got to the state they are now in.


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## El carajillo

As F/J said , has water / steam been coming up the threaded section of the element / flat on side of element/ faulty seal.

Worth cleaning all around and trying open to watch what happens ????


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## Father_Java

In my case, the water had actually been seeping up between the element terminal and the white insulator. Must have been caused by a tiny pin hole in somewhere in the submerged part of the element itself (as suggested by Bella Barista) but I couldn't find any hole/crack with my naked eye.

I am now wondering if this is a generic problem with these elements - hope not as my new one looks identical to the old failed one.



El carajillo said:


> As F/J said , has water / steam been coming up the threaded section of the element / flat on side of element/ faulty seal.
> 
> Worth cleaning all around and trying open to watch what happens ????


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## johnbenallen

The new heating element was delivered to my door in Luxembourg just before mid-day today (Friday 31 March), having been ordered on Monday evening. Brownie points for Bella Barista!


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## El carajillo

Keep us posted on any findings. Examine on any bends / curves in the old element , this may be a stress point


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## Shamrock

Hi all,

ive had a similar problem with my Silvia. I'm on my third element now since buying the machine back in 2014.

Ive always run the pump after using steam, assuming this is enough to make sure the element is always covered..

but it looks like it needs to be run when first starting the machine also?

has anyone here not needed to change an element and what did you do to save it from going pop!!?


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## johnbenallen

....some weeks later....

Finally, I found the time to take my Silvia apart, change the heating element and reassemble. It took me a couple of hours, it will be quicker if I have to do it again.

However, after reassembly it's obvious that I haven't got a good seal between the heating element and the boiler. When I switch on, water emerges in significant quantities around the threaded ring which holds the heating element in place. The seal is apparently provided only by the blue washer between the flange of the heating element and the inside of the boiler. This washer has been replaced with the new one supplied with the new heating element. I guess I haven't tightened the threaded ring enough: I don't have a 28mm socket or spanner, and the adjustable spanner I used doesn't get a good purchase. A visit to the hardware store may be needed.

Anyone got any thoughts on this? I'm afraid of over-tightening things, but I can't see any other way to get the blue washer to seal properly.

....to be continued....


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## johnbenallen

This is curious. In the well-stocked hardware shop that I went to, there is no such thing as a 28mm socket or spanner. I tried 27mm and 30mm, but of course neither worked. In the end I fudged it with my adjustable spanner held in a mole wrench for better leverage, and I managed to turn it just enough that it no longer leaks.

It's not clear why it should be a non-standard size. Maybe it's a standard non-metric size.

There is still a very tiny leak around one of the 6 bolts which hold the boiler flange down. I have decided to ignore this for now in the hope that it will seal itself. I don't know why water would emerge here, as I thought the bolts are outside the sealing ring of the boiler.

Now I have a working Silvia again.


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## Mrboots2u

My betting is , it's Italian and therefore non metric .


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## johnealey

Quick google and

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/laser-28mm-combination-spanner/

Hope of help

John


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## Thecatlinux

28mm is actually quite common on compression fittings

28mm (39mm A/F) Compression Nut Fitting Spanner https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000Y8F8VO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_FKapzbZA7DMM0


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## Mrboots2u

Thecatlinux said:


> 28mm is actually quite common on compression fittings
> 
> 28mm (39mm A/F) Compression Nut Fitting Spanner https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000Y8F8VO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_FKapzbZA7DMM0


And now drink your weak lemon drink, you are the King of Hobbies .


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## Thecatlinux

Mrboots2u said:


> And now drink your weak lemon drink, you are the King of Hobbies .


I wish I had more time for hobbies , is actually all work and work related activities at the moment


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## martinc

I've had my Silvia heating element repaired just two weeks ago, cost me £95 + £10 postage. I went to myespresso.co.uk, where I bought the machine from back in 2008. Only took a few days. Hope that helps.


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