# Evo 2 pressure all over the place



## louiscar

The pump pressure adjuster has been driving me mad. I adjusted it to about 8.5 which gave me a nicer cup and it was fine until I descaled the machine.

Now the pressure is all over the place. I'll adjust it to 9 and it will drop to below 8. Today I thought I had it going ok but it sat around 6.5. The pump often makes a vibration noise which is almost like a turned down vibe pump. When it gets to the proper pressure it's quiet.

I'm pretty sure this isn't a damaged pump.

I'm concerned and I do suspect as it coincided with a descale that I have some kind of blockage which isn't clearing. I don't really want to descale again but I'm also not keen on taking the thing apart as the problem could be anywhere.

Any ideas? Has anyone had a similar problem with their rotary pump pressure?

Also I'm tempted to find someone to look at it (Sussex area) but this being England (not Australia or USA) there are precious few places that I can find apart from Bellabarrista who would charge probably around £300-400.

The machine is only 3 years old and I'm beginning to panic.


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## Daren

Have you had that £3-400 quote from BB or are they figures you just plucked from the air? It may be worth your while giving them a call to find out.


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## louiscar

Not entirely from the air but as I didn't buy my machine from them their prices for non-supplied machines are clearly stated on the site.

The estimation may be a little high but If I expected 3 hours labour this would come to £325 according to their pricing page. I considered contacting them till I read their comments on that page about people who contact them who did not buy their machines from them.


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## louiscar

No ideas out there?

I'm wondering if the ovp is something that may be causing the problem but not sure if one is fitted when a rotary pump is present.

Would I be better off posting this in the technical / fault forum?


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## Thecatlinux

Basics

is the group nice and clean ? Have you given it a back flush with pulycal?

actual with hindsight don't know if this is relevant but will leave it up anyway as it would be the first thing I would do .


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## louiscar

Thecatlinux said:


> Basics
> 
> is the group nice and clean ? Have you given it a back flush with pulycal?
> 
> .


Thanks for the response but I can assure you this has nothing at all to do with the cleanliness of the group head although yes mine is clean.


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## frustin

are you using hard water in your machine then? if so then you might be right, a bit of gritty scale can cause a blockage, god knows its happened to me often enough on my old classic. FYI I use bottled water in my very expensive evo2.


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## DavecUK

louiscar said:


> The pump pressure adjuster has been driving me mad. I adjusted it to about 8.5 which gave me a nicer cup and it was fine until I descaled the machine.
> 
> Now the pressure is all over the place. I'll adjust it to 9 and it will drop to below 8. Today I thought I had it going ok but it sat around 6.5. The pump often makes a vibration noise which is almost like a turned down vibe pump. When it gets to the proper pressure it's quiet.
> 
> I'm pretty sure this isn't a damaged pump.
> 
> I'm concerned and I do suspect as it coincided with a descale that I have some kind of blockage which isn't clearing. I don't really want to descale again but I'm also not keen on taking the thing apart as the problem could be anywhere.
> 
> Any ideas? Has anyone had a similar problem with their rotary pump pressure?
> 
> Also I'm tempted to find someone to look at it (Sussex area) but this being England (not Australia or USA) there are precious few places that I can find apart from Bellabarrista who would charge probably around £300-400.
> 
> The machine is only 3 years old and I'm beginning to panic.


*
1. This vibration noise may well not be right.....post a video of it and the noise.*

2. Is the machine plumbed or run from an internal tank.

3. if it's plumbed, do you have a pressure regulator (not a simple pressure reducer).

The balanced bypass is quite a simple system and easily removed for checking, but answer the questions above and I can direct you to the next steps you should take to diagnose/fix the problem.


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## louiscar

frustin said:


> are you using hard water in your machine then? if so then you might be right, a bit of gritty scale can cause a blockage, god knows its happened to me often enough on my old classic. FYI I use bottled water in my very expensive evo2.


Yes it's hard water but I use a Brita water filter which helps a lot to keep the scale to a minimum


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## jeebsy

louiscar said:


> Yes it's hard water but I use a Brita water filter which helps a lot to keep the scale to a minimum


What kind of filter?


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## louiscar

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the help.



DavecUK said:


> *
> 1. This vibration noise may well not be right.....post a video of it and the noise.*
> 
> 2. Is the machine plumbed or run from an internal tank.
> 
> 3. if it's plumbed, do you have a pressure regulator (not a simple pressure reducer).
> 
> The balanced bypass is quite a simple system and easily removed for checking, but answer the questions above and I can direct you to the next steps you should take to diagnose/fix the problem.


1) See attached - Earlier when I pulled my morning shots the pressure went to about 9.1 and pump was quiet. Just turned on for the video and put a blank filter on. As you can see it is just hitting 8 and the noise (Ticking / tapping) is present. The pressure adjusted for should read at least 9.5 with the blanking filter on.

Curiously this is intermittent. I never know what I'm going to get till I use the machine. I also note the needle flicks up/down sometimes when the problem is present.

2) No it on the tank.

3) N/A

About 4 days ago, I pushed the pressure up to about 10.5 and it stayed there over a couple of days so I thought it had cleared but as soon as I adjusted it down a bit the problem came back. I wish I could find some diags of that adjuster and what's in it. It may be that the problem is there but I don't know if I should take it off or not to have a look.

What I did do just to eliminate is open the group nuts and have a good look at the components. I was pleasantly surprised that there was very little sign of scaling around the mushroom.

Let me know if you want any more vids or if you want me to try to catch it when it sound fine and the pressure is correct. As of now the video I'm attaching shows the problem perfectly although the sound is a bit low - sorry.

Hmm - just can't get the UI to upload the file so here's a link to my dropbox:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77436088/louiscar_Evo2_pressure_vibration.mp4


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## louiscar

jeebsy said:


> What kind of filter?


Jug filter with MAXTRA cartridges


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## DavecUK

In order of horribleness to do.

1. It's worth a quick double check that water isn't coming out of the expansion valve when the shot pressure is low against a blind filter.

2. Check the boiler isn't overfilling (possible faulty autofill solenoid.

3. Does sound a little odd, if that ticking is not the motor pump assembly vibrating on the machine, may well be worth, removing the balanced bypass assembly to check it all looks OK, reassembly is the opposite of disassembly and a bit of silicone grease helps.

4. Whipping the pump out to have a look. is also worthwhile to check for leaks and freedom of movement.


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## louiscar

DavecUK said:


> In order of horribleness to do.
> 
> 1. It's worth a quick double check that water isn't coming out of the expansion valve when the shot pressure is low against a blind filter.
> 
> 2. Check the boiler isn't overfilling (possible faulty autofill solenoid.
> 
> 3. Does sound a little odd, if that ticking is not the motor pump assembly vibrating on the machine, may well be worth, removing the balanced bypass assembly to check it all looks OK, reassembly is the opposite of disassembly and a bit of silicone grease helps.
> 
> 4. Whipping the pump out to have a look. is also worthwhile to check for leaks and freedom of movement.


1) Trouble is not knowing exactly where these parts are. I think the expansion valve is at the very top of the machine?

2) When I tilt the machine (as I have to, to get at the pressure adjuster the fill kicks in which suggests that it's probably ok but how do I know if it's overfilled or not ?

3) Yes, when I get the correct pressure all that tick/ tapping goes away and it's very quiet and smooth. As this is happening intermittently I can assume it's something inside. I'm 95% certain it's not pump vibration but I can check easier with the sides off and looking at the pump.

4) Seeing where the pump is I can see why this is the last in the 'horribleness" list. 

If you or anyone can point me to some good diagrams of the insides other than the outdated Bellabarista pdf I'd be grateful. I'd like to get as familiar as possible before attempting this task but I will try and do as much as I can of what you suggest. I had a bad experience with my old Rancilio when I broke the boiler pipe trying to get the nut undone so all this makes me a bit nervous to say the least.

I did come across an american vid called 'tear down Rocket Evolutzione V2' which will help somewhat but anything better would be great. That pressure aduster is new to the V2 as it's not a lock nut system. They've put a spring on it so it can just be adjusted by hand. Initially I thought perhaps is moving by itself but after marking it's position I can safely rule that out beside which the pressure will go to it's proper setting intermittently.

The other thing I need to keep in mind when tracking the logics in this situation is that it was perfectly fine before I descaled so I might be best assuming somewhere a bit of scale matter has lodged itself somewhere and go to the most likely place this could affect the pressure. I am assuming that it is somwhere between pump and pressure guage rather than guage to portafilter.


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## DavecUK

Sounds like it might be moving a little beyond the point you will be comfortable with....who did you buy it from? It might be worth having a chat to the Retailer you bought it from, or perhaps getting them to have a look at it. After all they did supply it and 3 years is not exactly a long time.


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## louiscar

DavecUK said:


> Sounds like it might be moving a little beyond the point you will be comfortable with....who did you buy it from? It might be worth having a chat to the Retailer you bought it from, or perhaps getting them to have a look at it. After all they did supply it and 3 years is not exactly a long time.


Yes some of it is a bit daunting although I did get used to dismantling the Rancilio completely a few times. This is a little more expensive and complex though. I doubt if the vendor will be interested. I bought it from an Italian agent for Rocket in Milan and its 2 year warranty is over sadly.


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## louiscar

You know what? I can but try ... I've slung them an email. Chance is slim but maybe, just maybe.  I did confirm the integrity of the company with Andrew Meo before I ordered it.


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## DavecUK

louiscar said:


> You know what? I can but try ... I've slung them an email. Chance is slim but maybe, just maybe.  I did confirm the integrity of the company with Andrew Meo before I ordered it.


It can't hurt and Rocket may be aware of a problem with certain batch numbers (things like that can happen), or know what the problem is because perhaps others have had it?


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## louiscar

DavecUK said:


> It can't hurt and Rocket may be aware of a problem with certain batch numbers (things like that can happen), or know what the problem is because perhaps others have had it?


That's true. I was hoping to find someone who may have experienced similar problems but so far haven't found anything. I may see email Rocket direct just in case. Thanks for the thought and your help.

Edit: Just had an Email from Loredana Marconi from LadocevitaIlaliana, although no offers to sort it she said she's passed it on to Rocket technicians for comment. Maybe I'll get some pointers out of it if nothing else.


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## louiscar

Well after a lot of emails back and forth between two sources I am being pointed in the direction of the bypass valve as a possible suspect.

Also Andrew Meo's first call was that scale might be in the small tubes that go to the pressure gauge but this is unlikely due to the behaviour of the the needle IMO.

I managed to find a picture of the bypass valve which is where the adjuster is but the diagram is for the evo not evo2 (slight difference I'm guessing because I don't think mine has a lock nut. The diagram is a bit confusing as there appear to be two sets of valves depicted here. See 16 vs 20.

My question for anyone that is more familiar than me on this machine, is can I unscrew the adjuster completely and will it give me enough access to see if any scale is there or would I have to completely disassemble all the parts shown to get at the problem?

I'm slightly tempted to just descale again just in case I manage to break down the pesky bits stuck in there but Andrew Meo told me that they don't recommend ever descaling the Rockets.

Any thoughts / suggestions would be helpful at this stage before I consider the more costly alternatives.


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## frustin

Can you not just send it in for repair? I know you would like the satisfaction of fixing it yourself, but at least you know it's done properly if you get rocket to sort it.


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## louiscar

frustin said:


> Can you not just send it in for repair? I know you would like the satisfaction of fixing it yourself, but at least you know it's done properly if you get rocket to sort it.


I may have to but Rocket repair means sending it to Milan and Bella is too expensive for me right now.


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