# It's all going wrong - Help



## Greg (Jun 16, 2015)

I thought i knew the theory but i've only had 1 decent shot so far in the week I've been up and running. I either get coffee everywhere and too much in 25 seconds or way too little.

Kit:

- Mazzer Super Jolly with schectermatic shnozzola mod and waiting for bits for mouse mod. Will then do sweeper mod.

- Gaggia Classic - have done OPV mod to 9bar. Happy Donkey bottomless PF.

- tamper - Happy Donkey 58mm convex

- coffee - Happy Donkey classic italian

I think the problem is the grind or the tamp. Electronic bathroom scales make measuring 30lbs neigh on impossible so guessing. Have SJ set to about 2.7 up from the burrs touching but I know thats a bit vague.

Almost any suggestions welcome!!!!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Bit more info please

What is way too much coffee out?

What is way to liitle?

Are you weighing your dose in to 0.1g

Are you weighing your espresso out to 0.1g

If you are unfamiliar with this process , have you read

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22879-Beginners-Reading-Weighing-Espresso-Brew-Ratios

Is the coffee fresh- roast date and what is the coffee please also ?

I am presuming you have sourced a non pressurised basket? What dose size is it ?

Cheers


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

This is probably jumping the gun, (as boots said, we need to know the dose in and the output first) but what is the basket? I have a vst 18g and struggle to get a good seal around the edge sometimes with a 58.35 tamper. Are you getting any sprays from the edges when pulling the shot?

I appreciate that all super jollys are probably going to be different, and a different bean is going to require a different grind but my burrs touch/jam at 1 on the collar and I am grinding my current coffee at 2.2

However, dose and output info first.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Like Mr boots said more info please

small movements on th sj collar can make massive difference


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I thought 30lbs of pressure was now considered way too much?


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## Sami (Apr 18, 2013)

Weigh your ins and your outs. Are you single dosing? Start with an 18g dose for example. It's not critical that you tamp at 30lbs, some coffees and machines work better with lighter/harder Tamps. Just take a guess and keep it CONSISTENT. Now adjust the grind so you're getting ~36g of espresso out in 25-32s. When you've achieved this, start experimenting with lower and higher yields within the same time frame to see how that affects the taste and body of the espresso. There's no right or wrong, just what you like.


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## Greg (Jun 16, 2015)

way too much is much more than a 2oz shoot, too little can be as low as .5oz

am weighing beens to spot on 18g and pulling into a marked 2oz glass

bottomless PF is double shot non pressurised.

coffee is as mentioned Happy Donkey Classic Italian and has no roast date but says BB July 2016

Thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I thought 30lbs of pressure was now considered way too much?


Not the end of the world...

Key is consistency , same amount each time , level and flat.

Its One variable same as grind and dose but has the least effect in terms of amount of pressure to time of extraction

Change one thing at once only, see effect ..

Let's see what the OP comes back with before we start discussing tamp techniques and pressure


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## Jon (Dec 3, 2010)

You may do well to weigh your output


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Greg said:


> way too much is much more than a 2oz shoot, too little can be as low as .5oz
> 
> am weighing beens to spot on 18g and pulling into a marked 2oz glass
> 
> ...


Ok

Weigh the output

Read the link articles linked before

Get some fresher coffee


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## Greg (Jun 16, 2015)

where is good for fresher coffee?

Thanks for all replies - much appreciated before I get too frazzled!


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

My favourites for fresh beans at the mo are:

hasbean

redtail

coffee compass

rave

foundry

but there are loads more quality roasters.....

how long is it taking to pull your 2oz or .5oz shot?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I thought 30lbs of pressure was now considered way too much?





Mrboots2u said:


> Not the end of the world...
> 
> Key is consistency , same amount each time , level and flat.
> 
> Its One variable same as grind and dose but has the least effect in terms of amount of pressure to time of extraction


Ive just ground 28 grams of coffee at the same time and pulled two separate doubles, one I tamped lightly resulted in a quick pour, the other I tamped heavy which resulted in a much slower pour.The only variable between the 2 of them was tamp pressure.

I did the above just to prove a point to myself after my first post. My experience is that tamping does play a big part in how long the pour takes at exactly the same grind. I find it easier to be more consistent tamper pressure wise with a lighter tamp.

There for I think its tamp pressure inconsistency that is playing a part in the OPs problem.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Greg said:


> where is good for fresher coffee?
> 
> Thanks for all replies - much appreciated before I get too frazzled!


The best thing you can do , to understand what effect your adjustments are having on taste and the amount of coffee you are making is to weigh out ...

This can then help us with


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## Mr O (Jan 14, 2015)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> My experienceI find it easier to be more consistent tamper pressure wise with a lighter tamp.
> 
> There for I think its tamp pressure inconsistency that is playing a part in the OPs problem.


+1 for lighter tamp = more consistent

also a good tip that often pops up is;

buy a kilo of one bean and don't buy 4 x 250g of different beans. You will learn more about your grinder and machine with a kilo of the same, rather than keep changing with different beans.


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## Tewdric (Apr 20, 2014)

I seem to recall the baskets HD supply are huge, for 20g or more. You could try dosing up a bit to see if this helps, or try and get someone to lend you an 18g basket to see if that makes a difference. I'm a fair novice myself but I do believe that too small a dose in any basket won't be good for the extraction. Another thing I've found helps is really focussing on loading the basket nice and evenly and tamping level. If your puck slopes in the basket you're on to a loser!

Some beans are easier than others too. I'm a great fan of Union Revelation, with which its nigh on impossible to get a bad shot, particularly using a Londinium!


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## jlarkin (Apr 26, 2015)

Mr O said:


> My favourites for fresh beans at the mo are:
> 
> hasbean
> 
> ...


Just be aware unless redtail put a post on here with a batch that they're roasting that you'll get stock they supply to Amazon. That means you won't know the roast date. Ian, from redtail is transparent about this to us, so only order when you know what you're getting.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Ive just ground 28 grams of coffee at the same time and pulled two separate doubles, one I tamped lightly resulted in a quick pour, the other I tamped heavy which resulted in a much slower pour.The only variable between the 2 of them was tamp pressure.
> 
> I did the above just to prove a point to myself after my first post. My experience is that tamping does play a big part in how long the pour takes at exactly the same grind. I find it easier to be more consistent tamper pressure wise with a lighter tamp.
> 
> There for I think its tamp pressure inconsistency that is playing a part in the OPs problem.


Jumping to an answer and a conclusion based one supposition when we don't have all the info isn't terribly helpful....

Let's see what happens when there is a process in place for weight in and out and any adjustment and its effect can be linked up....

Otherwise we are just gonna give the Op ten different things to try all at the same time


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Greg said:


> I either get coffee everywhere and too much in 25 seconds or way too little.
> 
> Almost any suggestions welcome!!!!





Mrboots2u said:


> Jumping to an answer and a conclusion based one supposition when we don't have all the info isn't terribly helpful....


Just putting forward my suggestion, which is valid given the the above info.

Personally my moneys on the outcome being grind finer tamp lighter.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Just putting forward my suggestion, which is valid given the the above info.
> 
> Personally my moneys on the outcome being grind finer tamp lighter.


Not saying it isn't valid , just saying lets see what Op comes back with , after he has set some constants..


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## Greg (Jun 16, 2015)

Many thanks again for all contributions. I will read the recommended threads, get some fresh coffee, use my little scales on both the grind and the pour and see what i can learn. Will post in a week or so to ask further, hopefully more informed questions.

Who said this stuff was easy?...........


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Greg said:


> Many thanks again for all contributions. I will read the recommended threads, get some fresh coffee, use my little scales on both the grind and the pour and see what i can learn. Will post in a week or so to ask further, hopefully more informed questions.
> 
> Who said this stuff was easy?...........


Good luck

Enjoy it too thought.

Make sure you note down what effect small adjustments have on time and taste with the grinder.

Stick to a suitable dose

Tamp same each time

Extract note time. Taste

Change grind only

Report back

Try and fix a brew ratio to work to..

Reading the article's linked will explain.

Have fun ...


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