# Inconsistent coffee form 1 day to the next.



## Montana (Jan 3, 2013)

Hello, I've had my Gaggia classic and MC2 grinder for about a year now and although I get some great coffee I do find it hard to get consistent coffee day after day with the same beans. I only have 1-2 coffees a day so the beans do last for a while but I'm finding I need to adjust the grind most days, is this normal? I've been thinking of upgrading the machine to a Fracino Heavenly but do feel I'm probably the weakest link in the coffee making process. Would some training be the best route before upgrading the machine and maybe grinder? I live near Gravesend kent but cant seem to find any local place for training.

Thanks Rich.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Montana said:


> Hello, I've had my Gaggia classic and MC2 grinder for about a year now and although I get some great coffee I do find it hard to get consistent coffee day after day with the same beans. I only have 1-2 coffees a day so the beans do last for a while but I'm finding I need to adjust the grind most days, is this normal? I've been thinking of upgrading the machine to a Fracino Heavenly but do feel I'm probably the weakest link in the coffee making process. Would some training be the best route before upgrading the machine and maybe grinder? I live near Gravesend kent but cant seem to find any local place for training.
> 
> Thanks Rich.


Welcome !

To understand better am going to ask you some questions about how you make your espresso , then we can go from there .

Do you dose the same each time ( measured by weight )

Do you measure the output by time / volume or weight ?

When you are changing the grind , is it because it is over or under extracting?

Do you sue a naked portafilter to see if the pour is channeling ( therefore indicating some issues with distribution )

As a bean ages the ground will change ,so how often are you having to do it and why ? Bitter or sour taste etc ....

If you need any of the above clarifying ask away .


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Montana said:


> I only have 1-2 coffees a day so the beans do last for a while but I'm finding I need to adjust the grind most days, is this normal? Would some training be the best route before upgrading the machine and maybe grinder? .


You may be right about you being the weakest link! I know I was and still am.

If you adjust the grind finer do you always get less output over the same time? I found that my output varied almost independently to my adjustments to my grinder! go finer could get less or more output go coarser could get less! It was all down to my routine and inconsistency in my tamping, distribution etc.

I went for some training (in fact he came to me!) used my kit and we were within 15mins getting great shots with just a few adjustments to my routine. The company is 5Mcoffee in fact the gentleman that runs it runs these very forums!!

The advice you get from others on this and other threads will undoubtedly help but if you are considering training and can afford it I would do it! I thought it might be a bit of a waste of time that that the main limitation was my machine but it was and still is me.

Lastly dont leave your beans in the MC2 hopper always put back in an air tight container or they will degrade quicker which could be another reason you keep having to adjust your grinder so often


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think going through MrBoots2u points would be a good start.

My shots were all over the place till I started weighing, getting the distribution correct (naked PF is excellent for pointing this out) and getting the grind/tamp correct.



Mrboots2u said:


> Welcome !
> 
> To understand better am going to ask you some questions about how you make your espresso , then we can go from there .
> 
> ...


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## Montana (Jan 3, 2013)

Hello and thanks for the replies.

I've been weighing the dose but the scales only go up in 1g, so thinking I really need some better scales. This will also go for weighing the output, I was putting 18g in and trying for about 29g out in 27 seconds. Adjusting the grind would be either way, some times I choke the machine up and other times the coffee comes out way too fast(channeling?). I don't have a naked portafilter but can get one ordered this week along with the scales. It seems like every day I use the machine the grind need adjusting but its looking like that's more down to what I'm doing rather than the machine.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Montana said:


> Hello and thanks for the replies.
> 
> I've been weighing the dose but the scales only go up in 1g, so thinking I really need some better scales. This will also go for weighing the output, I was putting 18g in and trying for about 29g out in 27 seconds. Adjusting the grind would be either way, some times I choke the machine up and other times the coffee comes out way too fast(channeling?). I don't have a naked portafilter but can get one ordered this week along with the scales. It seems like every day I use the machine the grind need adjusting but its looking like that's more down to what I'm doing rather than the machine.


Better scales would help , you can get scales off eBay that do 0.1 g one eBay for £5 -£6

When you are choking the machine it could be you are putting in , in excess of 18 g due to your scales . This might be what's causing some of the choking ( excessive dose ) . In this case the PF would me harder to lock in and ther may be an excess dent in the puck for the shower screen .

A naked PF will show you if it's the grind that's is causing quick extraction or channeling and will help you see where your distribution is lacking .

Plus when you get a naked PF pour right it's really rewarding .

Hope this helps .


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## kikapu (Nov 18, 2012)

Montana said:


> Adjusting the grind would be either way, some times I choke the machine up and other times the coffee comes out way too fast(channeling?).


 Thats similar to what I had. Work on distribution in the portafilter.

I grind directly into the basket weigh it then carefully put it in pf, lightly (I mean lightly) use index finger from north south west east to distribute grinds, place tamper on top of coffee make sure its level then press straight down with desired pressure! remove pressure then twist tamper to polish.

But as others have said order the scales so you can keep a better eye on what you are actually dosing and your output


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Yes grind settings do need changing but not usually to extent youre reporting. Are you using freshly roasted beans?

Re scales - even +/- half a gram wouldnt be the difference between choking and gushing. Your machine is unlikely to be that irregular with pump pressure.

Definately have a second pair of eyes check over your technique. Perhaps post a video on here?


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## danman2k (Aug 31, 2012)

just a thought, but when you adjust the grind, are you completly emptying the grinder of coffee?, you should really grind for about ten-15 seconds, or even more if needed, to empty the burrs of the old grind and to push out any old grind along the path of the coffee from the disc to the chamber.

this will mean that you will be left only with the new grind in the chamber.

if not, you could be mixing the old grind with the new grind, which you find works, but then once used up, you then get the new grind which is then finer or coarser, depending on which way you adjusted it.


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

danman2k said:


> just a thought, but when you adjust the grind, are you completly emptying the grinder of coffee?, you should really grind for about ten-15 seconds, or even more if needed, to empty the burrs of the old grind and to push out any old grind along the path of the coffee from the disc to the chamber.
> 
> this will mean that you will be left only with the new grind in the chamber.
> 
> if not, you could be mixing the old grind with the new grind, which you find works, but then once used up, you then get the new grind which is then finer or coarser, depending on which way you adjusted it.


Would that still be the case if you were single dosing?


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## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Agree with Gary, it might be worth videoing the whole prep and technique.


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## danman2k (Aug 31, 2012)

if coffee is still in the discs, yes, unless you shut off the hopper and kept the discs running to ensure no coffee is still in the discs, and depending on the grinder, there could still be some old grounds, i always throw away loads just to be sure that i am not mixing the old grind with the new, and quite a common mistake my staff make when checking the grind before a job.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

It won't be the case with single dosing at all, as you are only putting in a weighed amount of beans and grinding them until they are finished which means the burrs will be free of coffee, especially if you have done the mc shake! Try to remember this is a doserless small grinder, not a big commercial


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## Don_your_hat (May 13, 2013)

Another thing to consider is whether you are tamping evenly each time. This video should illustrate what I have also found from my experience:


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## danman2k (Aug 31, 2012)

i will leave this to the pros then lol


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Also something to ask is have you ever backflushed or descaled the machine? flakes of scale could result in fluctuating pressure. When I had my MC2 I found that if it needed adjusting then it was only by a tiny amount as the beans aged. I did single dose and shake it and slap its arse to get the last bits out so unless you are doing this your dosing could vary quite a lot.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

danman2k said:


> i will leave this to the pros then lol


Not pros but people who are used to these grinders, I believe you are a person in the know with commercial equipment and techniques, it is always good to know as much about everything as possible don't you think.


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## danman2k (Aug 31, 2012)

i dont use doser less ones tbh, the one we have just turns the discs off.

but i dont use them, as i over fill my handle and level the coffee off to the top of the handle, give the handle a couple of taps on the counter to evenly settle the grounds and then tamp, i think once our chap here creates his own technique, he will have a more consistent coffee.

unless he has bad discs, it will be down to replicating his technique that will solve this one, probably though lol, so many opinions in this game and but also endless learning, even the best of us never stop, i dont care what anyone on says lol, thanks


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## Montana (Jan 3, 2013)

I've ordered some scales and a bottomless portafilter which hopefully will arrive for the weekend. I'm thinking my problem is with my dose and distribution, I've got the old scales out until the new ones arrive and this has helped a lot. I'll post a video of the whole process next week and that should show up the things I need to work on.

Thanks Rich.


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## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Welcome to Coffee Forums UK Montana

You should be able to get a fairly consistent coffee day in day out with the setup. There will always be variance as the bean ages but nothing dramatic.

Gravesend is within my travelling zone for home barista training.

PM me for dates and details for Jan / Feb if you're interested.


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## Montana (Jan 3, 2013)

I've got the scales and naked poratfilter now, weighing the coffee in and out and now that part is a lot more consistent. The main thing I'm seeing with the naked portafilter is not every time do I get one large tail but sometimes I get two smaller ones. I guessing that's down to distribution?

Glenn, come the new year I think some training would be a very good idea, I don't thing I'm far off but I'm sure I've lots of things I can work on. The thing I find is I stumble across making a great coffee one day and that sets the new standard!! Would love to be able to get near that standard every day.

Rich.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Montana said:


> I've got the scales and naked poratfilter now, weighing the coffee in and out and now that part is a lot more consistent. The main thing I'm seeing with the naked portafilter is not every time do I get one large tail but sometimes I get two smaller ones. I guessing that's down to distribution?
> 
> Glenn, come the new year I think some training would be a very good idea, I don't thing I'm far off but I'm sure I've lots of things I can work on. The thing I find is I stumble across making a great coffee one day and that sets the new standard!! Would love to be able to get near that standard every day.
> 
> Rich.


Cool , firstly is it tasting any better ? The two tails you deceive will be down to distribution , meaning that at that point there is less coffee and therefor less resistance in the puck . Water is therefore finding it ways through these paths of less resistance causing the duplicate streams . Your would probably find these extractions are a little quicker , than when one stream forms .


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## Montana (Jan 3, 2013)

Yesterdays afternoon coffee with one tail was very good but today's with two tails not as good and yes it was quicker this morning.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Montana said:


> Yesterdays afternoon coffee with one tail was very good but today's with two tails not as good and yes it was quicker this morning.


Ok that's what I would expect . Was it sourish ?

It's a product of uneven distribution or tamping on the basket . Most likely the first one .

Once the coffee is ground into the basket or portafilter what do you do ? If possible a clip might help .

But check that the coffee is evenly distributed and the trap is even all sides .

If you have scales , it wouldn't be a bad idea to measure your output of espresso in weight and come back to let us know how your getting on .

Hope some of this helps !


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## Montana (Jan 3, 2013)

Yes its all helping!! I grind into the portafilter then use a paper clip that's straightened to remove to clumps, level and the tamp. I weigh the coffee after its been leveled as I tare the empty basket on the scales its coming in on 18g, then the weight of the liquid is around 30g for 27 seconds. Getting a lot better results now but still needs work.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Montana said:


> Yes its all helping!! I grind into the portafilter then use a paper clip that's straightened to remove to clumps, level and the tamp. I weigh the coffee after its been leveled as I tare the empty basket on the scales its coming in on 18g, then the weight of the liquid is around 30g for 27 seconds. Getting a lot better results now but still needs work.


Sounds like your doing all the right things . It's just getting them down consistently each time . That's the skill for all of us . Without seeing a clip of your prep and or extraction , it's a bit hard to give you anymore advice .

When you nail the naked extraction , and get the ratio you want ,how does it taste ? Perfect ? Sweet ? Slightly sour or bitter ? With the tasting notes you were looking for ?

Cheers martin


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## soundklinik (May 31, 2013)

Montana said:


> Yes its all helping!! I grind into the portafilter then use a paper clip that's straightened to remove to clumps, level and the tamp. I weigh the coffee after its been leveled as I tare the empty basket on the scales its coming in on 18g, then the weight of the liquid is around 30g for 27 seconds. Getting a lot better results now but still needs work.


I own Silvia and I don't think I can fit 18g into 14g basket. My ideal result is with 16-17g.

Try this, tamp in your 18g and now put a small (thin,>1mm) coin on top of grounds, put the pf in, tighten it and take it off and look.

Did the coin "imprint" into beans? If yes you're overdosing...

The coffee needs to expand with hot water...


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