# VST Baskets - What was your 'gain' please?



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm quite interested in these but I have one overall sort of question for you chaps using VST baskets please.

Without being too technical, what ACTUAL benefit has this given you in terms of improvement in your espresso? Has the taste been improved, and if so, how so? Have you found any other benefits?

Would be interested to ready your experiences and views. Thanks, Cam


----------



## benbaldwin (Dec 30, 2011)

Most noticeable thing for me is the pain in the arse it is persuading the puck to leave the basket!!!!

Just got mine today so will update in due course!


----------



## Earlepap (Jan 8, 2012)

Honestly, I got my VST basket at a similar time I got a decent grinder and at a nascent stage of espresso making in general, so I can't really say how much of any improvement is down to the basket.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

the basket really shines when used in conjunction with high grown , lighter roast coffees. the finer grind and specific dose requirements mean in theory a better extraction. I've almost forgotten what my old expobar basket was like. from memory better looking pours, less channeling and improved clarity of favours were found straight away with the vst. Having moved to a doser grinder I'm finding my feet again and having to relearn my distribution technique, this has highlighted that the vst needs a level bed of coffee prior to tamping, tricky when the level is way below the basket top. sloppy pucks seem to be par for the course


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Basically what gary said, greater sweetness, body and clarity in the cup, they are very usefull with lively coffees as the nature of the basket allows for a grind much finer than standard, thus reducing the risk of channelling. They might also help with your technique as any imperfection will result in shot disaster, thus ensuring that you carry out your ritual faultlessly!


----------



## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

How does everyone find their dosing size in relation to the stated gram size on the basket? I have a 15g VST and dose around 16.8g and tamp fairly light. Can't say I've ever had a problem removing the puck either.


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> highlighted that the vst needs a level bed of coffee prior to tamping, tricky when the level is way below the basket top. sloppy pucks seem to be par for the course


No way you can do stockfleths with the dose so low in the basket. I'm thinking of making a dosing tool (inspiration from that video you posted gary).

What does everyone else do when dosing in 15g VST?

I'd love to try Sam's UKBC blend in VST, it tasted so good in standard baskets.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> No way you can do stockfleths with the dose so low in the basket. I'm thinking of making a dosing tool (inspiration from that video you posted gary).
> 
> What does everyone else do when dosing in 15g VST?
> 
> I'd love to try Sam's UKBC blend in VST, it tasted so good in standard baskets.


With the mini-e and spinning ball distribution a mere 'shimmy/shake' would settle the grounds completely level, then a OE Slapshot technique to finish. With the doser im having to re-think. I made a scotty dosing tool from a credit card.

The other option is to try to forget dosing by weight and just overfill and level (prob about 16.5-17g) and see what happens!


----------



## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

Well, with the 18g VST, as I have said before, its a struggle to squeeze 18g in it.


----------



## chimpsinties (Jun 13, 2011)

I chuck 18g of beans in my grinder and grind into the container, then pour that into the 18g VST in my naked PF. It fits perfectly with hardly any need to level, then I tamp. Sometimes a bit is left behind in the bottom of the basket after a pour but nothing a quick rinse under the tap won't solve.


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

So after about 4 shots of Extract Strongman @15g in 15g VST playing around with technique, I've found that with decent fluffing from WDT and a quick tap down of the naked PF on the counter it produces a nice even basket.

Light tamp and a quick twist but first few pours had a bit of channeling, last two showed promise.

What would be the implications of using a VST basket like a normal basket with a doser and filling to the top of the basket?

This would obviously be a much higher dose than these baskets are designed for. I imagine you'd have to grind coarser and would get a different extraction profile to using the specific dose.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Everything went to sh1t when I removed the portafilter forks. Maybe the vibration of the grinder whilst the portafilter rests on them helps with distribution and settling. They are going back on this afternoon, dunno why I took them off really!


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Cracked it, increased dose to 16g kept the grind fine - forks back on, pivot the portafilter 180 degrees from left to right and back again as thwacking the doser (fast as can) - nice level even distribution. gentle tap on mat and tamp as normal - 3 x perfect pours all 21.5-23.5g output in 30 seconds. Would be tempted to go tiny bit finer and let run for 32-33 seconds.

Starting to like Roy


----------



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

ok, back on topic though (please)............

You chaps who have discussed dose & levelling here, can you also please assist on benefits, taste wise, in using a VST basket?


----------



## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm amazed. I had no idea vertical taps would make that much difference!

So I've gone from overflowing baskets where I'm struggling to fit in 18g. Several vertical taps (I only tapped the side of the portafilter previously) and the level of the grounds settles a couple of mm below the rim. I wonder if this will lead to a more even extraction also.


----------



## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> I made a scotty dosing tool from a credit card.


Have you not noticed that the top of the Aeropress stirrer is a Scottie dosing tool?


----------



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Spam-tastic!


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Cracked it, increased dose to 16g kept the grind fine - forks back on, pivot the portafilter 180 degrees from left to right and back again as thwacking the doser (fast as can) - nice level even distribution. gentle tap on mat and tamp as normal - 3 x perfect pours all 21.5-23.5g output in 30 seconds. Would be tempted to go tiny bit finer and let run for 32-33 seconds.
> 
> Starting to like Roy


Gary (or should I address this question to Roy?) after grinds have fallen out of doser into basket, all you do after that is quick tap on mat?

No other movement of grinds other than grinds falling from doser?

I'm struggling to get an even and level basket without quick WDT or similar, and this I think is leading to channeling!

Possibly overtamping too


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> Gary (or should I address this question to Roy?) after grinds have fallen out of doser into basket, all you do after that is quick tap on mat?
> 
> No other movement of grinds other than grinds falling from doser?
> 
> ...


Rapid thwacking of doser and rotation of portafilter, light tap and light tamp. The grind from Roy seems very very high quality


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Rapid thwacking of doser and rotation of portafilter, light tap and light tamp. The grind from Roy seems very very high quality


You mentioned something about videos?

Of your shots + Brewtus + Roy?!?


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Just ran an experiment :

1. VST 15g into 23g in 30 seconds

2. standard basket 17g into 26g in 30 seconds (best looking pour due to being able to level the top)

3. VST updosed 17g into 26g in 29 seconds (struggle to get this to work with the tiny group-head clearance, took 3 attempts)

Although 1. tasted the most 'effectively extracted' with the best mouth-feel, 2. actually was the most enjoyable, bright but clean and tasty! 3. was massively underextracted and sour & lacked any finish.

Clearly the VST needs the intended 14-16g dose to work properly - if only there was an easy way to distribute & level the top with consistent repeatability


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

3 words Gary....VST....Scottie....Tool.

Going to play around with some different sizes/angles etc but this is clearly the way forward.

On a side note, have you ever removed the sweeper plate on the mazzer? Trying to clean it out and I can't managed to get it out.

Good experiment though


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> 3 words Gary....*VST....Scottie....Tool.*
> 
> Going to play around with some different sizes/angles etc but this is clearly the way forward.
> 
> ...


Too much faffing

not sure what you mean?


----------



## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> Too much faffing
> 
> *not sure what you mean?*


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


>


Ah, I see. Not tried dude. Mine seems clean under there


----------



## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

I have read that you use longer screws with the same thread to push the sweeper plate out (the 3 burr screws). I found that a screw driver in the dosing chute and lift up the plate does the job. Obviously you need to use care so that you don't damage anything. The plate underneath the sweeper is particularly fragile. Use the chute as leverage and use a small amount of force. Turn the sweeper 3rd of a turn and repeat until it pops.


----------



## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

where can I buy a 15g vst for my gaggia classic? can someone post up a link for me please? cheers


----------



## lookseehear (Jul 16, 2010)

On my phone so no link but you can buy from hasbean or square mile - google it


----------



## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

Thanks, do I get ridged or non ridged for the standard classic pf?


----------



## tribs (Feb 21, 2012)

ridgeless for standard classic pf


----------



## matt- (Apr 21, 2012)

Thank you.. sorry to be a pain in the butt but can you explain the difference? is the ridged one angled towards the bottom like a standard single gaggia one? (I'm doing well and learning a lot from you all!)


----------



## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

All VST baskets have straight sides and, with the exception of the 7g basket, have wide bottoms that extend the entire width of the basket. 'Ridged' baskets have a small ridge running around the basket sides that is designed to hold the basket firmly in place under the spring within the portafilter. The basket audibly clicks into place within the portafilter and usually requires prising out using a tool or knife. A ridge-less basket does not have any such ridges and uses friction to hold the basket in place within the portafilter. Some manufacturers such as Rancillio use ridged baskets and some, like Gaggia, use ridge-less baskets and stronger, stiffer portafilter springs to hold them in place. For a Gaggia domestic machine I would suggest a ridge-less basket.


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I now have an 8mm E61 group gasket, replacing my existing 8.5mm should allow an 18g VST basket to fit in my machine with my naked portafilter : )


----------



## pendragoncs (Feb 14, 2011)

garydyke1 said:


> I now have an 8mm E61 group gasket, replacing my existing 8.5mm should allow an 18g VST basket to fit in my machine with my naked portafilter : )


BellaB have started giving these away free with the expobar, in fact I think they said they are going to start fitting them before customers take delivery.


----------

