# Increasing espresso concentration (TDS)



## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I'd like to increase the TDS strength of my espresso shots. I have, however, the following constraints:

- I can't grind finer because it would choke the machine

- I can't go hotter

- I don't want to reduce the extraction yield %

What might help? I've had the following thoughts:

- a better grinder

- a basket with smaller holes

- updosing but keep the beverage weight the same

Any thoughts? I'm struggling a little.


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## Filthy_rich85 (Jan 20, 2011)

Mike

I would change 1 variable at a time an start playing with dose to with. Try up dosing to begin with. Changing the TDS will affect the extraction yield if you keep the beverage weight the same as the extraction yield is =TDS% x (dry weight/wet weight)


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## Filthy_rich85 (Jan 20, 2011)

Sorry extraction yield =TDS% x(wet weight/dry weight)


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Cheers.

Good point... What I should have said is that I don't want to reduce the beverage volume, but I'm happy to increase it if necesary, in order to keep the extraction yield the same as the TDS increases.

Ok this is where things get quirky. If I updose, I'll increase the resistance in the basket. It may choke the machine... but I suppose if I increase the brew time (say from 30 secs to 40 secs) it may eventually come though, and have a higher TDS.

Any other ways to bump up the TDS?


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## RolandG (Jul 25, 2010)

I think you're correct in your options. A different grinder might allow more efficient extraction. Baskets - am I right in thinking you're using the VST? Bear in mind that basket size also impacts the effect of an updose. Updosing will increase TDS, and longer pours will generally be needed (all else being equal), but there are some big inherent risks to flavour in those longer pours (though worth experimenting with).

What is it you're trying to achieve in terms of taste/texture of the drink?

-- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

I am guessing you are trying to bump TDS% for a specific coffee but of course changing to a different coffee (or roast profile) might yield it's solids more easily.


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

Is there some particular flavour you're trying to extract or are you just trying to make the espresso taste stronger?

You could always try grinding half the coffee on the choke setting and half on your regular setting.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

My aim (and it is a stepping stone to further goals) is to be able to take any coffee I'm working with and extract it as espresso with a TDS of my choosing and an extraction yield of 19-20%, without having to resort to extremely short drinks. I'd like to get TDS up to 10% with a 50% brew ratio.

I'm using VST, yeah. Have been trying with 15g basket, and I'm going to try a larger dose... also going to try that in an overfilled 15g basket, an 18g basket and a 22g basket, and see if headspace has any effect.

Oh, another idea occurs to me... pre-infusion may increase TDS. I don't believe my Faema has that option, but it has E61 groups so maybe there's a way to do it.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

JamesG said:


> Is there some particular flavour you're trying to extract or are you just trying to make the espresso taste stronger?
> 
> You could always try grinding half the coffee on the choke setting and half on your regular setting.


The latter. A stronger concentration.


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

Pre-infusion would certainly help so would updosing.

I usually use around 17g in my 15g VST. Not sure if headspace makes a huge difference provided that there is at least some space.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Interesting. I wonder whether a smaller dose inside a larger basket (providing increased head room) might help. Of course a finer grind would be required to offset the lower resistance of the larger basket. To test, one could try brewing a 15g dose in a 15g and 18g VST basket, altering the grind to maintain the same time and brew ratio, and see if the headroom makes a difference.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

No success with updosing... I've now tried twice. The second time I dosed 19.6g in a 15g VST, and stopped the shot at 40g, hence 50% (as near as damnit), which raised the extraction time to 33 secs. It didn't bring the TDS up (infact it fell to 7.3%) - it just increased the overall beverage weight (due to my keeping the brew ratio at 50% ie 1:2).

This sucks.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

jimbow said:


> Interesting. I wonder whether a smaller dose inside a larger basket (providing increased head room) might help. Of course a finer grind would be required to offset the lower resistance of the larger basket. To test, one could try brewing a 15g dose in a 15g and 18g VST basket, altering the grind to maintain the same time and brew ratio, and see if the headroom makes a difference.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


Sounds worth exploring. Question: when you say the larger basket has lower resistance (despite the same grind), what is the basis of this? Are the hole sizes different?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Yes, exactly right. The 18 VST basket has larger holes than the 15g VST basket.

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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Cool, haven't ever seen anything explaining that. Is there an article or something I can read?

Problem is I'm already using the 15g, so already using the slowest flow basket and hence highest likely TDS.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

It continues...

14g dose, 28g beverage, 25 secs, 15g VST basket.

TDS the highest yet with this brew ratio, but still too low though.

Onwards...


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

Could you adjust your tamp in anyway - maybe tamp harder (although not sure if that would make a huge amount of difference)?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Hmm... not something I'd normally consider but actually a thought-provoking suggestion







Exactly why forums are so brilliant! Will have a think about how best to incorporate a tamp change.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Another thought... changing the pump pressure... would an increase in pressure from 8-9bar to 9-10 bar increase or decrease TDS?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

MikeHag said:


> Cool, haven't ever seen anything explaining that. Is there an article or something I can read?
> 
> Problem is I'm already using the 15g, so already using the slowest flow basket and hence highest likely TDS.


I will see if I can dig out one of the articles I read.

I do not think it is the holes in the basket that will necessarily affect the TDS - I am hypothesising that more headroom (smaller dose in a larger basket) may increase TDS. The issue is that using a smaller than intended dose in the larger basket will not have the required resistance when coupled with the larger holes on the larger basket. Grinding finer would offset this, and maintain the same resistance as using that dose in a smaller basket with smaller holes and allows the effect of the headroom to be observed in isolation.

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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Okey cokey, I'll try the larger basket







The concern I have is that if the basket holes are larger and I grind finer to compensate then I'm going to get more fines passing through the holes, which will affect extraction, mouthfeel, flavour etc. But let's see...

Now this is interesting... turns out (no surprises though) I'm not the first to go down this route. It's reassuring to know that I'm following a mental path that others have already trodden.

http://bitterpress.com/post/14402957614/thoughts-espresso-frustrations-and-revelations


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

This is really interesting Mike.

I think pressure does indeed play an important role here. I remember reading a discussion regarding the Aeropress (bear with me), explaining how, and why, it cannot produce espresso. The folks posting carried out a number of experiments demonstrating that it was possible to produce very strong brews (high TDS) using the Aeropress but that the extraction yield was consistently very low and far too low to qualify as espresso. They explained the difference between the Aeropress and espresso (and the missing factor allowing espresso to have such high extraction yield for the small quantity of liquid) is pressure.

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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

JamesG said:


> Pre-infusion would certainly help so would updosing.
> 
> *I usually use around 17g in my 15g VST*. Not sure if headspace makes a huge difference provided that there is at least some space.


Interesting. What is the end cup profile compared to using 15g ? Do you updose for any particular reason?


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

To be honest I've not tried it with 15g. I only got the VST about a month ago and found this worked for me so have stuck with it ever since. I should really get round to experimenting - maybe this bank holiday weekend will be the ideal opportunity.

Profile wise, I prefer some acidity in my espresso, just to cut through the oils a bit, so I used to updose before the VST to get more of that sharpness and I try to stick around the 1.5 ratio. I'm getting that same kind of acidity with the VST, but I think I achieve the right balance more consistently.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

What sort of coffees do you use? Darker roasts?

I just had a crack with 17g of Extract Strongman in the VST 15g, but couldnt extract it properly in a reasonable pour time - everything was too sour with no finish. 16.5g tasted better , 16g better still...everything dragging me back towards 15g!

I would love a basket which allows you to slightly overfill and level, but still extract as well as a VST!


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## JamesG (Mar 29, 2012)

No I'm not a big fan of darker roasts. Recently I've used JGC Formula 6 and Sao Benedito and at the moment I'm using HasBean Colombia Oporapa. I shall have to do some experimenting this weekend.

So do you find 16g better than 15g and what are you using to level your basket?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Holy hellfire, this is good stuff... and he wrote this over a year ago!

http://www.jimseven.com/2011/02/08/continued-thoughts-on-pressure-profiling/


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

JamesG said:


> No I'm not a big fan of darker roasts. Recently I've used JGC Formula 6 and Sao Benedito and at the moment I'm using HasBean Colombia Oporapa. I shall have to do some experimenting this weekend.
> 
> So do you find 16g better than 15g and what are you using to level your basket?


I adjust based on taste and the particular coffee, including its freshness and roast profile. The trend seems to be - the lighter the roast , the lower the dose, and,subsequently, the finer the grind.

I dont use anything to level the basket. With my mini-e I did a little shimmy front to back and left to right. Now I have a doser, I just rotate the portafilter 180 degrees left and right as im thwacking - followed by a little tap-down on the mat. Its fairly consistent in end result.

Tried a regular basket today and produced my best shot by filling slightly over the top of the basket & levelling with a finger - although I could tell it was slightly underextracted , it was the most balanced.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Have you tried lowering pressure? it would seem to me lowering pressure might increase contact time with the coffee and therefore increase the opportunity for dissolvable solids to be extracted.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Andy Schecter talks about that in the comments to the Hoffmann blogpost above.. gonna give it a try.


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## Outlaw333 (Dec 13, 2011)

Awesome, I was only guessing by the way so if it doesn't work, blame him not me!


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

By the way, my rationale behind the increased headroom is that I think it will simulate pre-infusion, allowing the brew water time to wet the grounds before the pressure builds up. This should in turn allow a finer grind without choking the machine and help ensure an even extraction (all the benefits of pre-infusion).


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I dunno... If the water is at full pressure then it seems to me that the extra drop between shower screen and puck would actually throw the grinds all over the place in the basket. I'm looking forward to trying with a triple basket though.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Good point and that is definitely a concern. In the past, when I have used low doses in larger baskets, I found that if the distribution and tamp are not absolutely spot on then channeling occurs more readily for exactly the reason you mention. When baskets are up-dosed, the grounds have little room to expand or move about and so channeling is generally less likely to occur.

However, I do believe that increasing the headroom will allow the brew water to wet the grounds in the basket before the water pressure in the basket builds up. This is a bit different from pre-infusion where the pressure of the water exiting the group head is varied (engaging or disengaging the pump). My hypothesis is that the extra headroom will simulate pre-infusion because the space above the surface of the puck will have to fill up with water before the water pressure in the basket increases. The headroom effectively acts as a small buffer for the water pressure.

Of course this is largely conjecture and I could be miles off the mark but it would be interesting to see either way. Loving this discussion


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Conversely if there isnt enough head-room then the puck can fracture and cause even worse channelling


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

Right then. Triple basket. Just under 15g dose. Two shots. The first run 1 second shorter (23 and 24 secs) & weighing slightly less, hence a higher brewing ratio and consequently a higher TDS than the other, but both basically around the 50% mark... ie a normalle.

















So it seems you could well be correct jimbow. The larger basket seems to have raised the TDS. I didn't even change the grind after switching baskets.

The puck was destroyed. A sloppy mess. But actually the pour was great.










I did notice more fines/flecks in the crema, but it didn't adversely affect the drink.









Taste: wow! Very excited about this. At these extraction levels it is a completely different experience. People talk about tasting fruits etc, but I think often it's a bit of a stretch for me to find actual fruit flavours other than the taste of citric acid extracted from the grinds. But this espresso is like going to a market in Medan, biting into a rambutan and it squirting onto your cheek! Juicy? I'll say!


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

What coffee did you use Mike? How does the taste with this revised approach compare with say what you'd receive at a high-end coffeeshop in London?


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

I used Extract's Unkle Funka.

I don't have a lot of experience of espressos from good places, although last week on my coffee crawl I had espresso at the following:

- Foxcroft & Ginger (Joe) using Climpsons blend with Brazil Daterra and an Ethiopian

- Prufrock at Present (Jessie), Red Brick

- Protein (nice girl, don't remember her name),

- Giddy Up cart (Julian)

- Comingsooncoffee (Hoi Chi Ng), one of the Extract coffees

By far the best was Joe's. He is clearly a really good (experienced aussie) barista, and he seemed to know how to use the synesso properly rather than just pulling shots. I was there 2 hours... good sign.

Being as ojective as I can, I'd say the one I had this morning was better than the others and not as good as his. I think that's probaby to be expected seeing as I was working it and working it, whereas the other guys didn't have such an opportunity during service.

By the way, I had one of the best brewed coffees I've had, from Julian at Giddy Up. An AeroPress, but sadly I can't remember the beans... think they were Square Mile though. Pure blueberries.


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