# Brew ratio and time



## haz_pro (Apr 4, 2013)

Hey all,

For bean X, I want to try three ratios: 1:2, 1:2.5 and 1:3.

I've just done 1:2 - 16g >32g in 36s.

For the other ratios, should I be adjusting grind size to try and keep the shot time similar, or does it not matter?

I ask as I expect the brew time for 1:3 with current grind size will be ~50s which feels high.

Thanks


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

You don't need to do anything ....

They will just be different

Ive had shots at 45 seconds that were great. So it might be worth trying one at 1:2.5 with the same grind .

How was the 1:2 shot though , sweet enough , too strong etc ?


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## kennyboy993 (Jan 23, 2017)

You don't need to do anything - but you can if you want?

When I try to dial in a new bean I start at 1:2 and see if I like it.

If it's too bright I'll see what it's like at 1:3 and slacken the grind a touch so it pours in approx the same time as the 1:2 - though I'm not necessarily aiming for time I just know that by slackening a bit I may well calm the acidity a little and the longer pour may bring out the flavour notes I tend to like.

This generally works for my darker roast, South American tastes though and can imagine it might not for other coffees


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## haz_pro (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks both.

At 1:2 it tasted lovely and sweet, definitely got the golden syrup coming through as noted on the pack.

I did end up trying 1:3 tonight with the same grind - it didn't taste as sweet to me, was stronger too. Didn't like it as much.

I thought a longer ratio would be sweeter, from what I've read on this site. I think I have a lot to learn about identifying and describing tastes in espresso.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

haz_pro said:


> Thanks both.
> 
> At 1:2 it tasted lovely and sweet, definitely got the golden syrup coming through as noted on the pack.
> 
> ...


A longer ratio can be sweet, but as you go longer you can also go a bit faster/coarser (longer shots don't always need as much contact time to extract). If you're getting the strength & balance you like short, than that's fine...just putting more water through a finer grind can make shots flatter/duller. Reasons for going longer would be because you're not hitting the sweetness you want, or shots are too intense. If sweet & good, you don't really have a problem.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

I'm new to all this so keeping statistics of shots in Excel. I originally thought time was important, and it's certainly a parameter, but I've been going by brew ratio to get into the ball park. I drink decaf, med/dark roasts with milk. I'm using 220ml cups.

I've tried ratios between 1:2 and 1:5, and the sweet spot was 1:2. More than that goes progressively more bitter, though with some more notes to partly compensate. The ratio of coffee to milk seems to be good at 1:6. This maybe sounds high, but it tastes nice. Pour looks reasonable to me - not too fast, not too slow. With a double basket and 14g in, 28g out, I'm using 175ml milk. This fits nicely into 220ml. I'm not frothing right now, but when I start on that I'll go up to 350ml cups.

Does this all sound reasonable?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

les24preludes said:


> I'm new to all this so keeping statistics of shots in Excel. I originally thought time was important, and it's certainly a parameter, but I've been going by brew ratio to get into the ball park. I drink decaf, med/dark roasts with milk. I'm using 220ml cups.
> 
> I've tried ratios between 1:2 and 1:5, and the sweet spot was 1:2. More than that goes progressively more bitter, though with some more notes to partly compensate. The ratio of coffee to milk seems to be good at 1:6. This maybe sounds high, but it tastes nice. Pour looks reasonable to me - not too fast, not too slow. With a double basket and 14g in, 28g out, I'm using 175ml milk. This fits nicely into 220ml. I'm not frothing right now, but when I start on that I'll go up to 350ml cups.
> 
> Does this all sound reasonable?


All that matter is that it tastes good.

Again milk to coffee ratio is purely personal depending on taste and your cup size.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

Mrboots2u said:


> All that matter is that it tastes good. Again milk to coffee ratio is purely personal depending on taste and your cup size.


I thought I'd start by hitting the sweet spot at a 1:2 ratio. This seems to work with the decaf darker roasts I'm using. But sweet as it is, it does lack a few of the "interesting" notes that come with longer extractions. So right now I'm actually not sure which I prefer, as long as it stays the right side of bitter. I'm not sure what kind of taste you guys refer to as "roasty" and how it differs from bitter. Hard to explain taste in words probably.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

les24preludes said:


> I thought I'd start by hitting the sweet spot at a 1:2 ratio. This seems to work with the decaf darker roasts I'm using. But sweet as it is, it does lack a few of the "interesting" notes that come with longer extractions. So right now I'm actually not sure which I prefer, as long as it stays the right side of bitter. I'm not sure what kind of taste you guys refer to as "roasty" and how it differs from bitter. Hard to explain taste in words probably.


Bitter can have all sorts of forms & causes. People say bitterness comes from over-extraction, but it's not as simple as that.

Roasty - tastes like burned nuts, toast. Subjective preference of roast level.

Over extracted - tastes like smoke, very drying on the throat. Brewing malfunction.


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## les24preludes (Dec 30, 2017)

MWJB said:


> Bitter can have all sorts of forms & causes. People say bitterness comes from over-extraction, but it's not as simple as that.
> 
> Roasty - tastes like burned nuts, toast. Subjective preference of roast level.
> 
> Over extracted - tastes like smoke, very drying on the throat. Brewing malfunction.


That's helpful. I think a good proportion of what I'm thinking is a little bitter is more like roasty. It's not like smoke or astringent.

To underline how fickle playing around with multiple parameters is, I just pulled a really nice shot at a 1:3.5 ratio with 1:4 coffee to milk. A bit "roasty" but I rather like these kind of notes. And there I was liking 1:2 and 1:6 coffee to milk, which now seems a little sweet and heavy, with a whiff of Starbucks about it. 1:3.5 is lighter in taste and not so sweet, allowing more complex notes to come through. Almost two different coffees in fact, which adds some variety when you just have one bag of beans for several days.


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