# Barista Express Newbie



## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Hi,

Whilst please with my new purchase, but I feel I'm not getting the best out of my machine. No problems frothing milk, just struggling getting a decent shot. I'm using beans from BeanToDoor, I've read that this isn't the best coffee, but it's got to be better than Aldi beans.

My main issue is getting the time right. I can get the pressure into the right zones, but the machine produces the coffee too quickly and the crema is very thin. The coffee doesn't taste too bad, but I'm no expert!

The manual doesn't really say what to do in this situation. Can anybody point me in the direction of a guide for producing decent shots? Or is this just down to bean quality?

Thanks in advance

Neil


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## Jony (Sep 8, 2017)

Well you could use some of the site sponsors, as they are fresh beans. Bean to door no thank you. And have you read some of the sage threads.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Yes, I've been reading lots, but there is a lot of conflicting methods, which was why I was wondering if their is an idiots guide. I'm going to get some better quality beans to try. Have to use online as I don't have a local supplier


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

I just looked at their site and they say the coffee is roasted and to the door in 7 days .. If so it should be ok..

Never used the BE but I would try to grind finer .. Keep your tamp level and consistent. Keep going finer until you get out what you want and the taste you want .. Best of luck .. Hopefully someone who uses the BE will be along shortly


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Cheers, I'm using the cheapest one, so I suppose you get what you pay for, and they are always fresh, always roasted around a week before dispatch. I'm using a single basket. So have swapped to a double basket, as apparently that's easier to use!?!?! That did just produce a better shot, but I'm running low on beans so don't want to waste too much! I'll keep trying. I was grinding quite coarse on the single basket. I'll keep trying


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

Most people here weigh the ground coffee in and weigh the espresso out with different ratios ..

So possibly get some cheap scales that weigh 0.1g . Then try 1/2 ratio for starters and as you get used to what you like experiment for taste ..

Single baskets can cause problems and will generally need a finer grind than the double basket .


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Sorry, you've lost me completely with 1/2 ratios and weighing coffee in and espresso out!??


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

There is several ways to do it

Easiest way is to weigh your portafilter empty .. zero the scales and then grind the coffee into the portafilter and weigh again .. If you have 18 grams of ground coffee aim for 36 grams of liquid ..1/2 ..


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Ok, so is that 36g in the cup? or the weight of the soaked coffee? Sorry for all the questions!


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

No problem .. it is the liquid in the cup after the shot has dispensed .. So you have to zero the scales again with the cup on


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

@Iris is reading this now she had the BE she may come in


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

First bit of advice I will give you ignore the pressure gauge.

work on brew ratio and timing. What I mean by this weigh the amount coffee you are adding to the portafilter, and the amount that is the final extraction in of around 1:2 ratio in around 30 seconds.


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

Reason I tell you to ignore the pressure gauge is some of the best shots I have had have been at the highest end of the espresso range.

I suggest you try Columbian saurez from Rave. Single wall double basket, Grind setting 5 with an 18g dose, just use the preset 2 shot button and on this setting you will get a dose close to 40g which is close enough to a 2:1 ratio, it will extract in around 31 seconds an it honestly one of the best beans I have had.

This is a just a suggestion to get you started, you need to play around to see what works best for you.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Excellent. Thanks for the advice. So, next question. What if I get under or over 40g of espresso, how do I increase or decrease the shot amount, I'm guessing grind size?


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

If it is close drink it however you take it ..

If it well over which may affect the taste try to grind finer .

If there is too little coarser the grind ..

Try them all as I found I tend to like drinks in the 35-40 second mark..

To start it's good to keep to one ratio and as you get to know the machine and what you like you can begin to play with everything else like time to get the ratio or different ratios etc


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Excellent, I'll give it all ago when I get some more beans.


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

if when using the preset buttons it gives you way too much liquid and overflows a double espresso cup your grind size is too coarse, and the coffee will flow quickly, you want to aim for around 30 seconds for a double espresso.

If you you are using the preset buttons and it gives you a tiny amount of liquid and takes much longer than 30 seconds then you are grinding too fine.

But for now don't go by the preset volumes weight your drinks, if you press the programme button first then press the double shot button you can stop the extraction when you get to the desired weight, also experiment and taste maybe a 2:1 isn't best for your taste try a 3;1 even just try what tastes best for you for.

If you get a the beans I suggested and use the settings I gave you you will get a nice almost perfectly dialled in shot, providing you are tamping properly, that is something you also need master don't overlook it, watch a few youtube videos on tamping and how to do it correctly.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Excellent thanks


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Oh, one other question. 30 seconds, is that from start to finish or after preinfusion?


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

found a video on youtube very beginner guide to the barista express


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

whitey01200 said:


> Oh, one other question. 30 seconds, is that from start to finish or after preinfusion?


The 30 seconds begins as soon as you push the button.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Cool cheers. Will give it a look


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## Nicknak (Aug 10, 2018)

whitey01200 said:


> Oh, one other question. 30 seconds, is that from start to finish or after preinfusion?


At the start using the oracle I did everything within the 30seconds .. After a while I tried it longer ..

Like I said follow the rules until you get the hang of dialling in the grinder ,taste , amount in amount out etc then play with different variables .


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Nicknak said:


> At the start using the oracle I did everything within the 30seconds .. After a while I tried it longer ..
> 
> Like I said follow the rules until you get the hang of dialling in the grinder ,taste , amount in amount out etc then play with different variables .


Cool cheers! So complicated, but worth it!


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

Give that video a watch I gave you the link to, its actually really good at explaining the very basics in a simple way, to get you started.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Yeah, going to give it ago. Just about to order the Colombia Suarez project beans you recommended. Are they these ones https://ravecoffee.co.uk/products/colombian-suarez?variant=2757471567898 see too cheap????


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I wouldn't say ignore the pressure gauge I would say ignore Sage's comments about it.

What can be said is that as the grinder is set finer the peak reading of the gauge will go higher and higher and in general the taste will get stronger and stronger until the machine chokes and can't force water through the puck. Crema will usually increase as well. It is also a good idea to see some increase in pressure during the first 10 sec of infusion.

Where you stop grinding finer up to the point where the machine wont work any more is up to you - the person that is going to drink it. Like most things though there is a catch. The gauge has a hatched area at the end. This is the area that the over pressure valve opens and diverts water to the drip tray rather than through the grinds. Too much of that may well not work out. The point where this happens isn't the same as when the machine is back flushed with the rubber disk it's a bit less. If ground fine enough to get the gauge to go this high you'll soon get an idea of what the pressure gauge will show.

How to get there -







maybe you haven't read the manual. Simple, start at 8 and adjust one step at a time until the desired result is achieved. Each time you adjust it's best to grind and throw away a couple of grams of grinds. If you don't you may well wonder why things are different on the next shot you pull. Throwing a bit away gets rid of any grinds from the previous setting. The manual also mentions preheating the portafilter. The method they suggest doesn't achieve much but it will help. I did it another way that really gets it hot - flush through an empty pressurised dual wall basket. Some leave the portafilter in place empty and let the machine heat it up - extends the heat up time. Either way it makes a significant difference to the taste of the first shot that is pulled but I have my doubts about just leaving the portafilter in.

The other way ratios can be changed is by varying the quantity of grounds. It's a little tricky to set the grind timer right in the first place to achieve this. Rather small turns of the knob. Making that easier is one of the reason the razor tool is supplied. It will give a decent target weight when the grinder is producing too much and that can be varied a bit once it has been set. Scales are all most essential anyway as the output will drift even after the grind timer has been set.

How high a pressure you need to see depends on the bean and the quantity of grinds in the basket. Some bean have a lot stronger taste than others. For instance a couple I used on the BE produced poison brewed at max pressure in a full double basket. These need the pressure backing off to figures more like the ones suggested in the manual. On the other hand they might be suitable for milk based drinks. I only drink long blacks or americano depending on like or dislike the taste of the crema. Some people like to stir the drink vigorously for similar reasons.

The other control of taste is ratio of grams of coffee in to grams of fluid out and shot time. A ratio of 2 in 30sec or maybe 25 is often mentioned. In practice beans may taste as they should do way away from that. That can be true even when the tuning is such that a bean gives the taste it should have let alone if some one finds it better at some other ratio. On the BE I would say anything between 1.5 and 4 is worth drinking to see if it's any good. On the DB I would be surprised if a ratio of 4 was ok but 3 may be. The DB brews at more normal pressures - those in the region of the readings shown for the gauge in the BE manual. 30sec - it seems some on here use 40sec at times.







I stick to 30sec as too many variables to try all in one go.

John

-


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

whitey01200 said:


> Yeah, going to give it ago. Just about to order the Colombia Suarez project beans you recommended. Are they these ones https://ravecoffee.co.uk/products/colombian-suarez?variant=2757471567898 see too cheap????


yep they are the beans, fantastic price for a single origin bean, don't let the fact they are cheap put you off, they are delicious beans.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Nicknak said:


> At the start using the oracle I did everything within the 30seconds .. After a while I tried it longer ..
> 
> Like I said follow the rules until you get the hang of dialling in the grinder ,taste , amount in amount out etc then play with different variables .


Cheers!


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

The reason I said to ignore the pressure gauge is because when its in the supposed preferred espresso range with the dial at 12 o clock, I was getting an extraction time for a double shot around 18 seconds way to quick and under extracted.

I don't go out of the espresso pressure range just at the very limits of it.


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

ajohn said:


> How to get there -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks, I did read the manual, but it got it into the correct ranges but still didn't get espresso like in the videos. So wondering what I was doing wrong. I've ordered some "quality" beans, so will do some testing when they arrive.


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## Iris (Oct 29, 2018)

whitey01200 said:


> Thanks, I did read the manual, but it got it into the correct ranges but still didn't get espresso like in the videos. So wondering what I was doing wrong. I've ordered some "quality" beans, so will do some testing when they arrive.


make sure you leave the beans at least 5 days from the date they are roasted to rest and off gas, I usually start using Rave Columbian saurez about day 8 post roast.


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## hummel89 (Dec 7, 2018)

I have used this machine for over two years. I buy freshly roasted coffee, weigh 18g for a double shot. So I would strongly advice you to get scales rather than time the grinder (its not as precise and end up with inconsistent shots). Having said that, the grinder itself is good! So they you time 30 seconds for about 40-50ml. Time straight after pressing extraction button. I personally dont even time it. You know its right when coffee tastes great.

p.s. The more recent roast date, less crema you will probably get. Again, this is dependant on your beans


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## whitey01200 (Sep 7, 2018)

Thought I'd update this. I have taken Iris's advice and brought some beans from Rave, the Columbian Saurez. Noticed the difference instantly. Still got some perfecting, but am on the right lines. Have definitely stopped the using Bean to Door! PS Thanks for the IM's Iris!


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## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

Glad to hear you're getting on better. I personally found the BE to be pretty capable, and you have received some good advice on this thread. I always weighed c. 18g of beans out and just ground that amount as it stayed fresher then, and was able to get some pretty good results.


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## Panhors (Nov 23, 2018)

John, jeśli przy 18g kawy w podwójnym koszu otrzymasz stosunek 2/1 w 30 sekund pozostały w zakresie espresso na manometrze? Pomimo wielu prób z różnymi kawami maksymalne osiągalne w tym zakresie wynosi 3/1. Może moja maszyna jest uszkodzona?


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