# So.... Now I own a La Pav



## Kyle548

I just won a Europiccola.

Thought I would give lever a try.

Anyone got any tips about where to start; particularly what to look for when making sure the machine is good to go, but also with actually feeling out a pull with it?


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## DoubleShot

coffeechap is probably the man to speak to. He owns or has owned a fair few, I believe. Big big lever fan as everyone knows.


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## Kyle548

DoubleShot said:


> coffeechap is probably the man to speak to. He owns or has owned a fair few, I believe. Big big lever fan as everyone knows.


Quite a few levers here I believe.

The machine doesn't have a PF, so I'll need to get one.

I'm guessing it's probably 54mm, but I really have no idea - based on the shape of the group bell, can anyone tell?


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## Kyle548

A few more photos; based on this, anyone able to tell what the basket size is on this one?


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## hotmetal

Can you not measure the shower screen? It should be a snug fit inside the basket. So if it measured 52.5 then I'd expect a 53mm basket for example. (Bear in mind I don't own one so I understand you'd prefer a proper answer from someone in the know).


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## DoubleShot

I did a quick search and 54mm got mentioned but like hotmetal said probably best to wait until one of the many owners of one of these lever machines posts to confirm.


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## Kyle548

hotmetal said:


> Can you not measure the shower screen? It should be a snug fit inside the basket. So if it measured 52.5 then I'd expect a 53mm basket for example. (Bear in mind I don't own one so I understand you'd prefer a proper answer from someone in the know).


I don't have it yet so I can't measure it; which is my main reason for asking.


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## coffeechap

It looks like a 49mm basket pre millennium, so you will need to get the smaller of the two portafilters, if you PPP the shower screen off you wil be able to see the piston, if it is polymer then it is the 51mm if brass, the 49mm (basket size)


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## hotmetal

Ah I see. Those pics are from ebay rather than taken by you. Gotcha. Fair enough!


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## Kyle548

coffeechap said:


> It looks like a 49mm basket pre millennium, so you will need to get the smaller of the two portafilters, if you PPP the shower screen off you wil be able to see the piston, if it is polymer then it is the 51mm if brass, the 49mm (basket size)


Ah right... As far as I can tell the 49mm PF are considerably harder to get.

Do you know where I might be able to get one should it end up being 49.


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## Rob1

It is not pre millennium. I think the baskets are 51mm but not too sure. You can get everything you need from http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/

You'll probably want to change the gaskets for the group before pulling shots at the least. Smell and taste the water coming out of it too. Descale. I used baking soda to get rid of a bad taste and smell to the water.


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## coffeechap

Rob1 said:


> It is not pre millennium. I think the baskets are 51mm but not too sure. You can get everything you need from http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/
> 
> You'll probably want to change the gaskets for the group before pulling shots at the least. Smell and taste the water coming out of it too. Descale. I used baking soda to get rid of a bad taste and smell to the water.


Are you sure?


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## Rob1

Based on first picture, yes.

Left is old group.


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## Kyle548

Rob1 said:


> Based on first picture, yes.
> 
> Left is old group.


I saw this one, but it's hard to tell based on a picture.

Is the poly insert a definite 100% way to know?


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## Kyle548

Rob1 said:


> It is not pre millennium. I think the baskets are 51mm but not too sure. You can get everything you need from http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/
> 
> You'll probably want to change the gaskets for the group before pulling shots at the least. Smell and taste the water coming out of it too. Descale. I used baking soda to get rid of a bad taste and smell to the water.


Looking at the site, I can't find any PFs at all.

I was planning on taking the whole group apart and replacing all seals and lubing it up as well as doing the boiler.

The best I can find is cafelat or http://www.myespresso.co.uk/product.php/386/la-pavoni-filterholder this one.

They don't come cheap...

For the 49, well... Nothing apart from cafelat...


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## coffeechap

If it is 49 which you will know for sure when you temove the shower screen then I may have one.


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## Kyle548

coffeechap said:


> If it is 49 which you will know for sure when you temove the shower screen then I may have one.


Cheers; I'd really appreciate that, if it ends up being 49mm.

I'm of two minds, I don't really like the idea of the sheaf in the group - but the bigger 52mm basket is appealing (and more easily available).

What timings and ratios do you usually do on La Pavs?

Would you use all the water in the group or do you pull to weight then dump the rest?


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## Rob1

I find with 16 or 17g dose I need to make sure the group is completely full of water with a few pumps of the lever until resistance builds up. From this I get 32 to 34g. But pressure profiling should affect ratio too. I might be mistaken but a high start pressure should result in a slower flow rate than a low pressure pre infusion before ramping to 9bars. With a declining high pressure profile flow rate remains somewhat constant throughout. I believe the slower flow rate would result in a higher yield and a lower weight per ml. Though as I said I might be mistaken on that.

In any case the ratio you want will be determined by the coffee you are using.

In terms of timing I let the group fill which can take up to 30 seconds (I've found there's no difference in the cup between 10 and 30 seconds). The shot takes 30 seconds, though it's possible you could go for less or more time depending on pressure profile.

This is where the madness begins.


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## Kyle548

I guess getting a feel for pressure profiles is going to be the hardest part.

Being used to pressing a button and getting espresso..


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## Rob1

Kyle548 said:


> Looking at the site, I can't find any PFs at all.
> 
> I was planning on taking the whole group apart and replacing all seals and lubing it up as well as doing the boiler.
> 
> The best I can find is cafelat or http://www.myespresso.co.uk/product.php/386/la-pavoni-filterholder this one.
> 
> They don't come cheap...
> 
> For the 49, well... Nothing apart from cafelat...


http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/94_-_395305_pavoni_complete_fi.html

What's the one from cafelat? Are you sure that fits the Europiccola? I always thought it was for the silvia style pavonis.

This is a source of old group stuff:

http://www.fairfaxcoffee.com/Maintanence/Spare-Parts/La-Pavoni-Lever-Spares.aspx

And

http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/ricambi_eng.htm


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## Kyle548

Rob1 said:


> http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/94_-_395305_pavoni_complete_fi.html
> 
> What's the one from cafelat? Are you sure that fits the Europiccola? I always thought it was for the silvia style pavonis.
> 
> This is a source of old group stuff:
> 
> http://www.fairfaxcoffee.com/Maintanence/Spare-Parts/La-Pavoni-Lever-Spares.aspx
> 
> And
> 
> http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/ricambi_eng.htm


You deserve all sorts of medals for this.

The cafelat is this

http://www.cafelatstore.com/products/la-pavoni-pre-millennium-49mm-portafilter

They do a 52 too.


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## MartinB

I have had my Gaggia G106 for a few weeks now - it's basically the La Pavoni Professional.

A few things to mention that I read up on when purchasing mine:


If you like to steam milk then ditch the 3 hole tip and replace with a single holed tip (I got one from eBay for about £6 from Germany)



You'll get burnt a few times no doubt



Don't release the portafilter straight after a shot like you would do on a machine with a 3-way solenoid (Gaggia Classic etc)



When you're happy with your shot, remove the mug as there will no doubt be more water in the group head = over extraction



Don't open the top cap to fill up until the machine has cooled down/pressure dropped. It's basically like an expansion tank on a car.


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## Kyle548

Post-mil then?


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## Kyle548

This thing is disgusting inside; going to be a job to restore it.


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## Rob1

Get yourself some Puly Caff and keep soaking it in that and wipe it down with a cloth between baths. It shouldn't take long to get rid of all the coffee oils. You might have a plastic piston in there, and can replace it with brass I'd you like.


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## coffeechap

it really wont take you that long to get it up and running, did you establish which variant it was?


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## Kyle548

coffeechap said:


> it really wont take you that long to get it up and running, did you establish which variant it was?


It has a plastic sleeve and plastic piston.

So it's a 2000 model.

The boiler was mostly scale, the OPV was totally sealed shut - I had to cut it off.

The plastic sleeve is also pretty much glued to the group the only way I can get it out is by cutting it out.

The base also has the old type screw in the drip tray which has totally eroded away, so I'll need to tap the screw and replace it before I can get the base off.

I can't remove the sight-glass either- it's scaled on and the seals are stuck tight.

So I had to buy a seal kit, brass piston, a sleeve, an OPV and a few other bits and bobs such as a double basket and a PF.

It's beautiful outside though with only the slightest putting in the drip tray so once restored will be nice.

In terms of maintaining it, the machine is even more simple than the Gaggia Classic which is amazing, really.


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## Rob1

When you say you had to cut the OPV off, what do you mean?


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## Kyle548

Rob1 said:


> When you say you had to cut the OPV off, what do you mean?


The opv was so tight I ended up rounding the soft brass of the head.

I eventually got it turning, but the coupling to the boiler started turning - not the OPV.

As the OPV has that drip collector, I had to cut a slot in that to get more bolt to turn.

I eventually managed to unscrew the OPV but it's not a pretty sight anymore.

When I got it the drip tube was pretty mangled, so I wasn't particularly bothered cutting the drip collector off.


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## Rob1

Ah, ok. Can you put the group on and run descaler through it a few times from the boiler? Is the sleeve screwed in? I don't have any experiences of dealing with millennium groups unfortunately.


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## Kyle548

Rob1 said:


> Ah, ok. Can you put the group on and run descaler through it a few times from the boiler? Is the sleeve screwed in? I don't have any experiences of dealing with millennium groups unfortunately.


The sleeve is just held in with a seal and whatever lube was used - but it's basically gone hard and dried like glue.


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## Kyle548

Ok, so fully descaled it - striped all seals and the group.

Replaced all seals, replaced the sleeve in the group - lubed everything up - replaced plastic piston with metal one.

Replaced OPV with new one including brass bearing from the old plastic one.

Polished it and replaced plastic drip tray with SS one.

Straightened steam valve and lubed everything up again.

Attached new shower, group seal basket and PF.





























































Piston is nice and light - springy actually when under pressure.

When up to temp, the OPV doesn't seem to hiss at all-but I don't see any issues with steam production and water is hot- are the millennium machines quiet like this?

Pulling a shot took me a while and the beans are a brand new Rave MM so basically just absorbed all the water I pulled into them.

The pull was easy but it took 3 full pulls of the piston.

PI was something like 15 seconds - then when I realised the coffee wasn't going to drip- I started the pull.

Time was something like 1min 18g in and 23 out ground with the zass (which I'm still getting the hang of).

Even though in terms of the shot- I think I pulled it really badly - maybe the smoothest coffee I have ever had from this bean.

My pump machine always makes quite a multilayered shot - this was pretty simple but very good.


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## lespresso

that's a credit to you, well done.


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## Kyle548

Anyone got any thoughts on how to get the best out of a pull on this thing?


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## bronc

What's the cup you're using?


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## Kyle548

bronc said:


> What's the cup you're using?


It's a NotNeutral, you can get them from coffeehit.


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## Rob1

Do little pumps when the lever is raised to the top to work the air out of the group. If you raise the lever slowly and mark the point water starts to flow, you can ensure your pumps don't disturb the puck and you'll be able to fill the group enough to get your shot in one pull.


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## JK009

Hi Kyle548

Could you please let me know which basket did you use? Single or Double?

Mines is PRE- Millenium version, and the basket around 20mm deep from the top to the bottom. As a newbie to LPE, I do not know whether it is a single or double?

If Double, how many grams of coffee IN? And how many grams OUT should I looking for?

Thanks


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## Rob1

JK009 said:


> Hi Kyle548
> 
> Could you please let me know which basket did you use? Single or Double?
> 
> Mines is PRE- Millenium version, and the basket around 20mm deep from the top to the bottom. As a newbie to LPE, I do not know whether it is a single or double?
> 
> If Double, how many grams of coffee IN? And how many grams OUT should I looking for?
> 
> Thanks


If I'm not mistaken pre-millenium singles (and probably millenium singles) are ridged. Double baskets have straight walls from top to bottom. Grams in will vary dependent on grind and beans. With the same setting but a lighter roast I'll get more coffee by weight into the basket than with a darker roast. For normal espresso you want to extract twice as much espresso by weight as the coffee grounds going in, but your taste may differ from bean to bean.

I'm guessing Kyle used the double basket with a 12g dose, but Millenium baskets are bigger so it could be the single (I can't imagine you'll fit 12g into the pre-millenium single). Just to clarify the baskets are supposed to hold 7g for a single and 14g for a double.


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## coffeechap

You can fit 16g in a tripple though


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## Rob1

Didn't know you could get a triple for a la pavoni. I use the Elektra basket for that kind of thing and call it a double.


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## coffeechap

Well a triple in Pavoni terms


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## Kyle548

The post-millennium are a little bigger in the basket apparently.

This will fit 17g without complaining- 18 is too much though.

The basket is just a stock double.


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## JK009

Hi

thanks you all for advice

i will try Elektra Micro Casa Leva basket for pre-Millenium LaPavoni ( I have bottomless portafilter) . I think it will hold a bit more coffee than the stock LPE


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## JK009

Hi everybody

i am looking for Elektra Microcasa leva double basket to replace stock LaPavoni.

Could anyone please tell me where I can buy it?

I saw one on Ebay but not sure it is the right one. I have no success to contact the seller for more information

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elektra-Basket-filter-2-Cup-14-g-Microcasa-a-Leva-/251353664255

please help


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## coffeechap

I believe I have a couple of them in the torr stuff I have I can look for you tomorrow


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## JK009

coffeechap said:


> I believe I have a couple of them in the torr stuff I have I can look for you tomorrow


Thank you very much

i can't wait

i have just pulled a good shot. However, I did not take any note at all ( may be I was lucky or accidentally achieved).

Having read and learnt from many forums, my first couple of shots were not successful.

They were quite bite

Now I try to grind finer and did not make any flush into the empty basket at all. ( I mean : I did not warm up the group head. The portafilter and the basket were warm up by being soaked into the hot water from separate boiler).

The bite was gone. However, the basket hold only around 12gr. It can make a small cup . That is what I never like

That is why I try to look for Elektra basket .

Still learn and practice and saving up money for .... L1


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## Rob1

How long do you keep the machine turned on before pulling the shot?


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## JK009

Rob1 said:


> How long do you keep the machine turned on before pulling the shot?


Hi

It is normal operation. It is around 5-7mins from cold boiler condition

1- Turn the machine on ( the green light on)

2- Wait for the green light off

3- Open the steam valve ( release the fake pressure)

4- Green light is on again

5- Green light off- lift the lever for around 7-10 second ( few drop out from the basket)

6- Push the lever down


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## Richard Penny

I have the basket you linked to, it is fine with my late 90's machine. I dose between 14 and 15g in it.


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## JK009

Richard Penny said:


> I have the basket you linked to, it is fine with my late 90's machine. I dose between 14 and 15g in it.


Hi

Thanks for your post

i still wait for CoffeeChap reply first


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## Rob1

I'm surprised your machine would overheat in 5 minutes to the point you have to warm the basket and portafilter separately. I've never used the standard euro though. Do you have it set to the high heat setting for the 5 minutes of something? Maybe you should wait 30 seconds after the heating element clicks off before pulling the shot (could be pulling at too high a temp rather than having a group that's too hot.


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## JK009

Rob1 said:


> I'm surprised your machine would overheat in 5 minutes to the point you have to warm the basket and portafilter separately. I've never used the standard euro though. Do you have it set to the high heat setting for the 5 minutes of something? Maybe you should wait 30 seconds after the heating element clicks off before pulling the shot (could be pulling at too high a temp rather than having a group that's too hot.


Hi

thanks for your advice

This morning, I tried to make the same apart from a bit more fine grind. It was hard to push the lever down. The result was sour coffee.

i would also to point out that my bean is not fresh. I try to use all of them (2.5kg stored in the freezer since Feb 2015)


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## coffeechap

Have not been back home today but will go back tomorrow, so will let you know then


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## Rob1

What grinder do you use?

A few few drops coming from the basket indicates either stale coffee or a coarse grind. Possibly insufficient dose or tamp, but that's unlikely (even very light levelling tamps will stop the flow) and I assume you're filling the basket to the rim before tamping.

Too sour = Under extraction

Too bitter = Over extraction

Sourness could be due to too low a temperature or pressure; Bitterness too hot or too high pressure. Of course, if you grind too fine your shot can be over extracted and too coarse it can be under extracted. If you grind very fine and end up with more than a couple of speckles of grit in the cup you could be trying to compensate for stale beans and would end up with very bitter coffee.

Are you doing one pull of the lever?

What volume do you get approximately?

How much does the shot weigh and how many grams of coffee are you using?

I'm not familiar with freezing coffee but the general consensus is that the Pavoni does not play well with stale beans.


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## GCGlasgow

coffeechap said:


> You can fit 16g in a tripple though


 @coffeechap I'd be interested in a triple basket for the pavoni, any idea where I could source one, and do they fit in a normal portafilter or do you need a bottomless one?


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