# Bella Barista Peru - Finca El Guabo



## MediumRoastSteam

Hello,

I've tried so far two roasts on the Gene, with the same beans.

On the first one, I tried the "Fast Profile" and on the second one the "Gentle Rise" profile.

I'm happy with the colour of the roast and I cracked the beans open and it seems roasted all the way through on both occasions. The beans also feel brittle and they feel "the same" if compared to a professionally roasted beans in terms of looks and feel.

However, I am not so happy with the taste. It feels that they have a somewhat "grassy", almost "sour" after taste, and the amount of crema produced is insane, something I never seen before with professionally roasted beans. I had the same beans roasted by Bella Barista and they are miles apart (It doesn't produced as much crema either).

Those feel like large beans and feels like they are on the soft side, similar to Brazilians.

On both occasions, I left them resting for at least 5 days.

Is there any advice that anyone can give me given those observations? Could it be that the green beans have past their "best before"?


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## DaveP

The odds of them there beans being past their best are almost non existent.

Grassy & sour tasting is normally under-roasted, soooooooooo let them cook a bit longer


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## Mrboots2u

OK let em rest 7 days. Gassy can be still to fresh


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## MediumRoastSteam

DaveP said:


> The odds of them there beans being past their best are almost non existent.
> 
> Grassy & sour tasting is normally under-roasted, soooooooooo let them cook a bit longer


Thanks. I am new to roasting and the gene. How do I "cook" them? Does this mean holding the temperature for longer before first crack?


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## MildredM

Did they come with any roasting notes (i.e. Into 2nd crack, or anything?). When I tried any new beans, and if I wasn't sure, I would listen for 1st crack and start the timer up, 2 minutes and hopefully the last of the loud cracks and the very first quieter ones would just be starting and at that point I'd send it into cooling mode. This was with the HotTop which cools quickly as they are sent out the machine. If that tasted ok I would refine things slightly from that point on the next roast to hopefully improve the taste even more.

In the early days I had some awful tasting coffee but then I seemed to get the hang if it, to a degree. Once I found some beans that worked/that we liked I stuck with it, ending up with maybe three or four favourites.


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## MediumRoastSteam

MildredM said:


> Did they come with any roasting notes (i.e. Into 2nd crack, or anything?). When I tried any new beans, and if I wasn't sure, I would listen for 1st crack and start the timer up, 2 minutes and hopefully the last of the loud cracks and the very first quieter ones would just be starting and at that point I'd send it into cooling mode. This was with the HotTop which cools quickly as they are sent out the machine. If that tasted ok I would refine things slightly from that point on the next roast to hopefully improve the taste even more.
> 
> In the early days I had some awful tasting coffee but then I seemed to get the hang if it, to a degree. Once I found some beans that worked/that we liked I stuck with it, ending up with maybe three or four favourites.


Indeed. Pretty much what I've done really. They did not come with any guidelines for roasting, unfortunately. I'm simply following some suggestions which seem to be trialled and tested as general guidelines for the Gene.


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## DaveP

Well.... slower is generally better than fast, but whats slow and whats fast is kinda up to you, lol

Depending as to where you roasted them to.... then they need a bit longer,

So if you pulled them on the 1st, then take them longer to just before the 2nd and so on, also the cooling speed will affect the total roast.


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## Rob1

What you've described seems to me to be too fresh. Have you stored them in an airtight container with little head room after roasting? If so I've found this seems to arrest development after roasting. I once did two batches and stored one away for a week while I drank the other, I came to it expecting it to taste like the other batch as the profile was identical (to a few seconds) and found the flavour was the same as the other when I first started it. Was very disappointed as I deliberately left the batch so I could see how the roast developed over time. Now I open the container every day or two and close it again to let it breathe and develop. If I remember correctly after the first day or two of opening/closing time caught up with the beans.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Rob1 said:


> What you've described seems to me to be too fresh. Have you stored them in an airtight container with little head room after roasting? If so I've found this seems to arrest development after roasting. I once did two batches and stored one away for a week while I drank the other, I came to it expecting it to taste like the other batch as the profile was identical (to a few seconds) and found the flavour was the same as the other when I first started it. Was very disappointed as I deliberately left the batch so I could see how the roast developed over time. Now I open the container every day or two and close it again to let it breathe and develop. If I remember correctly after the first day or two of opening/closing time caught up with the beans.


Thanks for this. I've stored the first one in an air tight container like you said, and opened every now and again, not for too long I must say.

The second one has been stored in a one-way valve bag, which I bought from Rave, for the past 5 days.


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## Rob1

OK, I don't think it'll be that then. Opening every day or two lets the pressure out and they keep degassing. How much time did the beans roasting from the start of first crack to the end of the roast, and how much time from first crack end? What profile you used is fairly meaningless, what matters is what happened to the beans.

Record paling, yellowing, browning, fc start, fc rolling, fc end time/temp. It might be useful to record time to specific temps as well such at 150c, 200c, and max temp, drop temp.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Rob1 said:


> OK, I don't think it'll be that then. Opening every day or two lets the pressure out and they keep degassing. How much time did the beans roasting from the start of first crack to the end of the roast, and how much time from first crack end? What profile you used is fairly meaningless, what matters is what happened to the beans.
> 
> Record paling, yellowing, browning, fc start, fc rolling, fc end time/temp. It might be useful to record time to specific temps as well such at 150c, 200c, and max temp, drop temp.


Thanks. From first crack rolling to the end of the roast was around two minutes. + 3 minutes cooling cycle. I'm finding hard to listen to first crack , so still learning.

May I ask, after the roast, how long do you let the beans out to cool? I left mine out for about 15 minutes after putting in a bag.


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## DaveP

> how long do you let the beans out to cool?


My method is I don't, lol

As soon as I think.... "That's about it then", they get unceremoniously dumped into a wire colander that's forced into the top of a bucket and has a vacuum connection (aka Henry) .. they get stirred with a whisk (or the welding glove on my hand if the whisk has gone walk about)

So my answer is that the cooling is rapid and they are cold in less than a minute (I dont want the beans having a mind of their own as to how cooked they think they want to be)



> I'm finding hard to listen to first crack


1st and 2nd cracks are very important milestones and are 'quite' obvious (or should be), is it a hearing problem or maybe the ambient noise is to high ?

Maybe we can help with experiments.


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## MediumRoastSteam

DaveP said:


> 1st and 2nd cracks are very important milestones and are 'quite' obvious (or should be), is it a hearing problem or maybe the ambient noise is to high ?
> 
> Maybe we can help with experiments.


Ambient noise. The gene motor is louder than the first crack. Apparently I can use a kitchen roll inner tube to help me...


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## DaveP

> Apparently I can use a kitchen roll inner tube to help me..


Great idea ..


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## MildredM

Some beans are louder than others. Once you've tried a few you will soon get used to the louder 1st crack and be able to judge the quieter ones more easily.


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## johnealey

1st crack in the gene can be hard to hear but the visual clues of larger amounts of chaff collecting around the exhaust vent inside the drum plus a swelling of the beans themselves. The kitchen roll tube does help especially if you touch it to the chaff collector side of top (if that makes sense) or carefully, whilst moving in time with the drum, close to the glass of the roasting drum.

5 days us way too soon to not have both massive crema and harsh flavours especially if then storing in an airtight container (vented bags are you friend when learning)

Hope of help and keep at it

John


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## DaveP

> especially if you touch it to the chaff collector side of top (


As an added bonus it may also help keep the ear hair growth in check


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## MildredM

DaveP said:


> As an added bonus it may also help keep the ear hair growth in check


I hold my ear nice and close to the roaster . . . .

It singes my ear hairs off nicely


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## MediumRoastSteam

johnealey said:


> 1st crack in the gene can be hard to hear but the visual clues of larger amounts of chaff collecting around the exhaust vent inside the drum plus a swelling of the beans themselves. The kitchen roll tube does help especially if you touch it to the chaff collector side of top (if that makes sense) or carefully, whilst moving in time with the drum, close to the glass of the roasting drum.
> 
> 5 days us way too soon to not have both massive crema and harsh flavours especially if then storing in an airtight container (vented bags are you friend when learning)
> 
> Hope of help and keep at it
> 
> John


Thanks John. Is a "vented bag" the same as a bag with an one way valve?


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## Rob1

It doesn't really matter how long they're left out after cooling in the gene. I've fallen asleep and forgotten about them before and there was no difference with the ones I put into a jar within 10 minutes (after having a fan blow over them).

Regarding FC being hard to hear, it can sometimes be impossible and sometimes the sound is so loud you wonder how you could ever have missed it. I've found smoke to be a more reliable indicator of FC especially when the roast profile isn't perfect. You'll see and smell smoke coming out of the exhaust consistently when the bean mass is at around 200-210c no matter how badly uneven they are. With my thermocouple I aim to alter the profile so I get first crack occurring around the right temp which results in a nice even roast throughout the bean but when it's uneven I don't get the sounds of FC until readings reach around 216-220c, but smoke is always there from 205c onwards. So when I see smoke I know I'm at or around FC and the delay between smoke and sounds tells me how uneven my roast is with the ideal scenario being sounds/smoke simultaneously. Of course if I then spend a long time developing the roast towards second crack I can split the bean open and it will appear even but that would be an example of darker roasting hiding flaws.

I wouldn't recommend dropping temp on smoke though as you'll end up with a stalled and uneven roast instead of just an uneven one.

How dark did you take them?


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## MediumRoastSteam

Rob1 said:


> It doesn't really matter how long they're left out after cooling in the gene. I've fallen asleep and forgotten about them before and there was no difference with the ones I put into a jar within 10 minutes (after having a fan blow over them).
> 
> Regarding FC being hard to hear, it can sometimes be impossible and sometimes the sound is so loud you wonder how you could ever have missed it. I've found smoke to be a more reliable indicator of FC especially when the roast profile isn't perfect. You'll see and smell smoke coming out of the exhaust consistently when the bean mass is at around 200-210c no matter how badly uneven they are. With my thermocouple I aim to alter the profile so I get first crack occurring around the right temp which results in a nice even roast throughout the bean but when it's uneven I don't get the sounds of FC until readings reach around 216-220c, but smoke is always there from 205c onwards. So when I see smoke I know I'm at or around FC and the delay between smoke and sounds tells me how uneven my roast is with the ideal scenario being sounds/smoke simultaneously. Of course if I then spend a long time developing the roast towards second crack I can split the bean open and it will appear even but that would be an example of darker roasting hiding flaws.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend dropping temp on smoke though as you'll end up with a stalled and uneven roast instead of just an uneven one.
> 
> How dark did you take them?


Thank you for the sound advice. I took them to a medium-dark roast (there's a picture of them in the Today's Roast) thread. It is identical in colour to other beans I have from Bella Barista. For instance, they are much lighter than the beans from The Coffee Compass but not as light as beans from Has Bean for example.


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## gwing

I don't claim to be the expert roaster (in fact far from it)

but, especially with my rather unsophisticated HGDB roasting I like to extend the time the beans are at the dark yellow stage before bringing them on to first crack. This ensures the beans are more consistently dried out and heated throughout their volume, rather than just on the outside, and at least to my mind makes consistency in the rest of the roast far easier. If the middle of the bean is still 'raw' while the outside appears good that would be another possible reason you get the grassy taste - and my 'extended yellow' phase does prevent that.


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## MediumRoastSteam

Thanks so much for the advice given, really appreciate. I tried them again after leaving them resting for another 2 days and I can happily tell the difference is like night and day! No more "krazy krema" or grassy taste! Thank you!


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## johnealey

Planning your bean consumption 7 days plus in advance is no different if you roast your own, its just you get to roast what you like at whatever time of the day takes your fancy so can be ahead of the curve if roasting at the weekend Vs ordering.

Is sometimes worth putting an extra batch through to cover all eventualities such as guests coming by etc and also allows you to leave them to rest a little longer









John


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## MediumRoastSteam

johnealey said:


> Planning your bean consumption 7 days plus in advance is no different if you roast your own, its just you get to roast what you like at whatever time of the day takes your fancy so can be ahead of the curve if roasting at the weekend Vs ordering.
> 
> Is sometimes worth putting an extra batch through to cover all eventualities such as guests coming by etc and also allows you to leave them to rest a little longer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John


Thanks. While you are here, may I ask a question? It may be stupid, but I am intrigued.

For instance, if I order those beans from BB, they are roaster on the day I order and they can be consumed 2 days later. However, why Is that different when roasting at home in the Gene? Why are they so gassy even 5 days post roast on the Gene and not from BB? Is because a professional roasting machine behaves differently?


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## johnealey

Slightly yes and am sure others on here can describe the differences better but you may also find that prior to bagging they are left out a little longer thus de-gas a little more especially if then bagged into 1 way valve bags which allow de gassing better than a sealed container

Beans in the 1kg Dalian Amazon drum roaster do tend to be ready a bit earlier than any have sample roasted on the gene which is more a cross between a fluid bed and drum roaster, but not by much.

John


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## ddoyle

@MediumRoastSteam

It took me 4 roasts with the Gene to get those El Guabo beans to something that I liked, here's my profile

*Ambient temp:* 20C

*Weight: *225g

*Set temp1:* 230C, once reached held for 2 mins

*Set temp2:* 240C, first crack began when this temp was reached, held temp until desired colour was reached.

*Recorded Gene temps*

2 mins 139C

4 mins 178C

6 mins 200C

8 mins 217C

10 mins 226C

12 mins 228C

14 mins 240C (rolling first crack)

16 mins 238C, ejected beans onto a large baking tray that had be in the freezer and also cooled with a large fan, beans reached room temp under 2 mins

*Final weight*: 188g (17.9% reduction)

*Colour*: medium to medium-dark

The end result


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## ddoyle

By the way, it is impossible to get an even roast with these beans because they are four varietals.


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## MediumRoastSteam

ddoyle said:


> By the way, it is impossible to get an even roast with these beans because they are four varietals.


Thanks for the info! Really worthwhile, thank you.

Have you modded your gene at all?


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## ddoyle

No not yet, it's only a week old and eventhough I am quite competent at doing such mods I am not sure if I want to invalidate my 2 year warranty. But on the other hand I might just bite the bullet and mod it.


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## MediumRoastSteam

ddoyle said:


> No not yet, it's only a week old and eventhough I am quite competent at doing such mods I am not sure if I want to invalidate my 2 year warranty. But on the other hand I might just bite the bullet and mod it.


Ah ha! That's so spooky because I only have been doing this for a couple of weeks too!

Same mind set as you though: not sure if I want to invalidate the warranty, and, unlike you, I am not competent in doing such changes.

Saying all of that, I have bought the parts necessary, and will initially test it with a light bulb to see if the wiring is correct. Then, I'll do the same onto an electric heater to make sure the controls are not overhearing and it can cope with a higher wattage. And eventually, maybe after some time, when I am confident enough, I'll connect it to the Gene.

Let's see.

Good to have you aboard.


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## ddoyle

Good idea to test it under load with an electric heater first. I think the warranty should make allowances for such mods as it extends the life of the heating element.

Which I am guessing is due to smaller thermal fluctuations (i.e. less switching on/off of the heating element), this is what normally stresses electrical components.

The same reason that computers which are left on all the time last longer than those that are often turned on/shutdown.

Before the Gene I used to roast with just a heatgun, stainless steel pot and whisk and had some good results, but got fed up with the mess and smoke in the kitchen and the lack of temperature control. So upgraded to the Gene and added ducting to vent the smoke out the window.

I want to mod my gene to be computer/pid controlled such as this 




Other than the Peruvian have you roasted any other beans?


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## MediumRoastSteam

ddoyle said:


> Good idea to test it under load with an electric heater first. I think the warranty should make allowances for such mods as it extends the life of the heating element.
> 
> Which I am guessing is due to smaller thermal fluctuations (i.e. less switching on/off of the heating element), this is what normally stresses electrical components.
> 
> The same reason that computers which are left on all the time last longer than those that are often turned on/shutdown.
> 
> Before the Gene I used to roast with just a heatgun, stainless steel pot and whisk and had some good results, but got fed up with the mess and smoke in the kitchen and the lack of temperature control. So upgraded to the Gene and added ducting to vent the smoke out the window.
> 
> I want to mod my gene to be computer/pid controlled such as this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other than the Peruvian have you roasted any other beans?


No, not yet.

I just asked some other coffee enthusiasts here at work and they are happy for me to buy greens and roast for them too, and they will pay me whatever the cost was. So looking forward to roasting some Colombian Suarez (Rave) soon!

After that it will be the Brazilian Hazel from BB.

I have also added the ducting to vent out of the window - haven't tried it yet, so been roasting in the garden.


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## ddoyle

Colombian and Brazilian will be easier to get an even roast as they are single varietal which makes the bean size more consistent.

The problem with roasting outside in the garden is the wide variations in ambient temps.

Here's a pic of my Brazilian Santos beans (from eBay) that I roasted.









So far I've tried...

Ethiopian Sidamo,

Brazilian Santos,

and Peru El Guabo


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## ddoyle

I'm currently waiting delivery of 2kg Colombian Supremo.


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