# Which one then?



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ok, for those there yesterday, of the main grinders, EK, Compak, Robur, Versalab, HG One if you could buy one, all things being equal, which one would you actually decide to take home? If you choose a big conical, then you have to remember that you would be quite happy offsetting the retention for the flavour profile. So, ifI have done this correctly, be interesting to see which one is favourite. Please do not vote if you were not there.

better still, no poll, just add your name and I will make a table later on


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

I was not there, but from the pics I would really like to order a Versalab. It seems the quality is up there with the best and the size is perfect for any kitchen.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

All things aren't equal tho ( price , how big each are , what space you have , do you drink brewed ? ) ...

Do you like ristretto, do u even like espresso ( without adding something )

How much time do you have to make drinks

How many drinks do you have to make

List goes on and on

Should have come Mr Kidd...


----------



## CallumT (Aug 23, 2013)

Martins hit the nail on the head. There was a large variety of grinders and can't really be picked side by side as better it's a different route going for a filter grinder.

EK works for me and a lot of forum members due to the fact it is truly top end at both aspects. I respect why people want the versalab, but I honestly would never consider one way too much money and considering the complete electrical failure with subtle home use ...

The top end isn't about 'who's got the specs' for the top trumps ; it's about making coffee and accentuating what you want from the beans whether that be with different machines / grinders or water filtration.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Martin, the question was very simple. If you could only own one machine, all things being equal means you have the funds to buy it, the space in which to put it etc etc. Which one machine would you own. For example, as an EK owner I would expect you to say versa lab.



Mrboots2u said:


> All things aren't equal tho ( price , how big each are , what space you have , do you drink brewed ? ) ...
> 
> Do you like ristretto, do u even like espresso ( without adding something )
> 
> ...


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Callum,

Martins hit the nail on the head. There was a large variety of grinders and can't really be picked side by side as better it's a different route going for a filter grinder.

In was not asking anyone to select the best grinder there. I wanted to know if you could only have one, which one would you chose to buy for your own use of those there yesterday


----------



## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

for me it would be the EK, clean sweet cups all day long, I can live without the mouthfeel


----------



## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

I simply confirmed my very happy Compak K10 Fresh ownership.

All of this EK / HG1 / Versalab single dosing, weighing, messing around (heavens forbid, even using manual labour rather than an electric motor!) - being able to just slam a PF into the grinder, dump a mound of ground coffee in there and whack it into your chosen espresso machine is worth any slight difference in taste that may or may not be there.

Callum's modded Robur looks and works very well - but that thwacker is still there - and it's a huge beast. I said it numerous times during the day, but for a 'large' grinder the K10F looked positively small (esp with the small hopper) when sat alongside the others. In a good way (especially as far as my wife is concerned).

Certainly, having had numerous shots throughout the day - from various grinders, espresso machines, beans, - they were all "very good and very nice"... and I don't think any one leapt out as being hugely better than any of the others.... many were different, all were very good.

After seeing all of the messing around, trying to get a drinkable EK/Vesuvius shot from Ronsil (and later Callum and Xpenno)... I grabbed the PF, upped the dose on the K10 - that we'd been using on the Rave L1 (so was at about 2.9s for around 16g) - to my 'usual' dose setting (3.4s for about 17g), leaving the grind the same (as it was pouring nicely on the L1 and the Vesuvius was on CC's "lever" profile) - and got a good looking and very nice tasting pour straight from the Vesuvius without any other complication.

No weighing, no single dosing, no hand grinding, no little cups to catch the grinds in and then transfer to the basket, etc. etc.

So - my K10's not going anywhere...


----------



## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

the K10 fresh is a lovely bit of kit. My concern over one would simply be the retention given how few drinks I make (1-2 on weekdays 3-4 at weekend).

The grinder thats catching my eye at the moment is the Fiorenzato F64 Evo. Looks fast as hell, clump free, tidy, compact and manages this with relatively small burrs, therefore less retention.

I just want a grinder that does this.....


----------



## CamV6 (Feb 7, 2012)

Versalab for me please


----------



## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

To my considerable surprise, I would take the EK. I thought it was a bit plasticky (especially the thwacker) and the switches could do with modernisation, but in the cup it was a revelation with the L1


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

I'd probably spend the money on a refractometer instead of another grinder , and that's me being honest ....

The versalab looked nice and it grinds were very consistent but my gut feel is I still prefer the ek shots taste profile and it wouldn't get used

If I we're a one coffee man then a k10 or one of the mazzers would make sense ..but I'm not , so it doesn't .... But I can see how the ease of use is attractive to people ....


----------



## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Mrboots2u said:


> If I we're a one coffee man then a k10 or one of the mazzers would make sense ..


Now, I AM a one-coffee man and I have a K10 Fresh and I am happy enough with it - but I have ordered the Versalab and will sell the K10. Why? One-word .... footprint! I live in a small flat with a small kitchen.

My GS/3 takes up a lot of space so the Versalab will give me the coffee I want with a small footprint! The EK is totally out of the question for me unless I installed it in my spare room! It isn't always about quality, sometime other factor have to come into play! The Versalab seems to be the only solution to getting the quality of grind that I want in a compact package!

DB


----------



## shrink (Nov 12, 2012)

now if only I could afford a used K10 lol


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

The new E10OD supposedely solves the adjustement problems of the k10 and allows you to move easily to other beans. If this is the case then this is a very good candidate for the perfect grinder, the problem is the retention.

How much is the retention on the k10? How do people that own them deal with this?


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Charris, most of us live with it, on the fresh variants it is vary difficult to mod them for single dosing (and to be honest pointless), however success can be had from modding a k10 doser version and getting retention right down on it.


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

For my limited knowledge on such matters the EK did produce a sweeter shot to what I'm use to and because I have a sweet tooth I did prefer this. But I was impressed more with the simplicity of the L1 thus would be my eventual progression up from the Strega


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Soll said:


> For my limited knowledge on such matters the EK did produce a sweeter shot to what I'm use to and because I have a sweet tooth I did prefer this. But I was impressed more with the simplicity of the L1 thus would be my eventual progression up from the Strega


You did have two ice creams then..











Soll said:


> For my limited knowledge on such matters the EK did produce a sweeter shot to what I'm use to and because I have a sweet tooth I did prefer this. But I was impressed more with the simplicity of the L1 thus would be my eventual progression up from the Strega


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> Charris, most ust live with it, on the fresh variants it is vary difficult to mod them for single dosing (and to be honest pointless), however success can be had from modding a k10 doser version and getting retention right down on it.


I dont care much about single dosing, i find beans in the hopper an easier approach, but retention is still a problem. If you mod a grinder for single dosing it does not necessarily mean that you changed the retention levels, correct? In my mind single dosing and retention are not directly related, correct?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

If you r going to single dose you would choose to do it with a grinder that retains as little as possible, otherwise would be a little self defeating


----------



## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Can't believe the slack the ek is getting for being plasticky - are the knob, thwacker and switch that bad??


----------



## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

Nahh, switches could be a bit slicker but its not that bad


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

They are totally related, if you run an od grinder as the econic k10 is then you have to have weifght of bean for it to function correctly, so if you have a hopper with beans in it then as the grinder grinds, the grind path fills up with ground coffee, this is the retention. if a grinder is modified for single dosing then you weigh the beans before and only put that amount of beans in the grinder. This time the grind path will clear through, it takes longer and with modification you can pretty much clear the grind path and thus drop retention to very low.

Simply put, OD = weight of beans to function perfectly= retention.

Single dosing = modifications, clear grindpath = very little retention


----------



## drude (Apr 22, 2013)

jeebsy said:


> Can't believe the slack the ek is getting for being plasticky - are the knob, thwacker and switch that bad??


Switches are just old-school. I thought the thwacker was really plasticky, though, especially compared to the Compak R120


----------



## ShortShots (Oct 2, 2013)

aye but the r120 thwacker hardly thwacks, more of a gentle shoulder bump. I like the ek one for the reason that you know youre getting it all out. but yeah they could have made it prettier. Still, function over form...


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

The r120 doesnt need it as it has a belt driven exit chute clearer. Lets face it the EK is excellent but it is a complete tractor compared to the R120 in terms of build quality.


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

ShortShots said:


> function over form...


This sums up the EK for me. There are some pretty simple alterations that they could make to improve the looks of this thing but that's not why people buy it. I don't have a problem with the build quality though, it's a solid beast of a grinder, I've not seen anyone damage the plastiky thwacker so I presume that it's made like that for a reason. The good news is that there are still 20 year old tractors ploughing the field today and that's got to be a good thing


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

One of the modded mazzers , (don't ask which one both have their own pros and cons) I am not to fussy,did think about doing a Pepsi challenge between the two, but by 11 o'clock i reckon I had tried so many shots that I wouldn't have been able to discriminate between them.

Note , doser mods were flawless.

I must also say that the more I used the HG1 the easier it became . At the start of the day I was very sceptical about this grinder and couldn't see what all the fuss was about, IMO better than the versalab .(less to go wrong).

By the end of the day it was on my must have list.

talking of the versalab from what I could see and where I was standing it was being well used and often a weapon of choice when folks wanted to grind some beans, even with all the faffing about ,and time to grind .

Observed on many occasions both the big compak and the ek were being overlooked for this grinder.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Footnote HG1 weighed 16grams in got 16grams out







Probably best overall grinder there!!!


----------



## Soll (Nov 10, 2013)

Mrboots2u said:


> You did have two ice creams then..


No it was 3 scoops in 1 tub! Gorgeous ice cream though


----------



## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

jeebsy said:


> Can't believe the slack the ek is getting for being plasticky - are the knob, thwacker and switch that bad??


they are designed to be cheaply replaceable. the rest of the grinder will last decades. think plastic bumper on car designed to crumple so chassis stays all good


----------



## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

This is really quite surprising!

Given the line-up I would have thought this would have been a number of different sub-battles going on...

The EK43 vs the R120

The HG1 vs the Versalab

and the Mazzer vs err... the Mazzer

it does sound like this was not the case and that there was no clear winner here on the day!


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

There wasn't a battle. Just people using amazing kit and drinking lots of coffee and having lots of chat ....


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

wasnt set up to get a winner as it was more an opportunity to get hands on with the kit Mark, if Tom had come with the syringes we could have done some refractometer testing but unfortunately that never happened. I think what has come out is that all of these grinders are exceptionally capable and produce amazing shots of coffee in their own way.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Isnt the robur much better thab the royal? I know that it is tge battle of conical vs flat burrs but the robur is very famous as the benchmark for grinders and should be better than its little brother.


----------



## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

Darn, and I thought you were going to give me an indication of where to go next after the K30!

I'm really sorry I couldn't make it now!


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

charris said:


> Isnt the robur much better thab the royal? I know that it is tge battle of conical vs flat burrs but the robur is very famous as the benchmark for grinders and should be better than its little brother.


yes the robur is a better and much more expensive grinder than the royal, although again they both have their merits.


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Well the Compak R120 certainly won the heaviest grinder present stakes.

For me it would be a Versalab if I underwent conversion to a single doser and otherwise the K10 Fresh out the grinders that were there on the day, although the couple of shots I had from the R120 were very enjoyable. I didn't have a bad shot all day from any grinder or machine, I did enjoy the EK shots too, although for me they are nice for a change or when out in a coffee shop , it's not what I really want for my everyday coffee drinking.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

Future Versalab owner here


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

MarkyP said:


> Darn, and I thought you were going to give me an indication of where to go next after the K30!
> 
> I'm really sorry I couldn't make it now!


Get an HG1 ! ......


----------



## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

If you're after traditional espresso then the versalab certainly delivers in the cup. For the cash and the fact that it's been built from the ground up as an espresso grinder I would still like to see a decent method for getting the beans into the burrs and a stronger motor though.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

coffeechap said:


> yes the robur is a better and much more expensive grinder than the royal, although again they both have their merits.


if the two grinders are still together and your could do a little one on one review maybe with a refactometer dave I am sure that would be an interesting post .


----------



## MarkyP (Jan 10, 2013)

Thecatlinux said:


> Get an HG1 ! ......


I did toy with a HG1 a little while ago but then the EK43 exploded onto the scene...

It sounds like I need to go and find one and taste what they put out!


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Versalab produced some great shots with the L1.

Didn't have a go with HG one, which was a shame.

I only had one drinkable EK shot that Callum poured which was incredible so I'll have to go with the EK.


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Glenn said:


> Future Versalab owner here


My god the vario is being replaced..........?


----------



## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

Now that is some jump - make that leap.


----------



## Glenn (Jun 14, 2008)

I also have an Anfim Caimano on the bench already.

The Versalab or whatever model replaces it will be next on the list when funds permit.


----------



## DavidBondy (Aug 17, 2010)

Glenn said:


> The Versalab or whatever model replaces it will be next on the list when funds permit.


Do you have inside info on a replacement Glenn? I've just ordered one and if it is to be obsoleted then I'd sooner wait!! Thanks.


----------



## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

I was put off the versalab by the supposed spindle spin out quality control issue which seems to be largely denied by the company. Don't know if this is just standard HB scaremongering.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

That was a long time ago. Other than issues reported by Terranova, I think most owners seem to be happy enough. I never understand owners of equipment, who on receiving it, immediately strip it down to check it over......seems a bit odd to me!


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

Gangstarrrrr said:


> I was put off the versalab by the supposed spindle spin out quality control issue which seems to be largely denied by the company. Don't know if this is just standard HB scaremongering.


I think it would be wise to know Terranova fees if the issues are true or if they might happen. Not the best scenario if you are buying a new 2k grinder but if you really want it then it might be worth knowing about this also.


----------



## Gangstarrrrr (Mar 4, 2013)

charris said:


> I think it would be wise to know Terranova fees if the issues are true or if they might happen. Not the best scenario if you are buying a new 2k grinder but if you really want it then it might be worth knowing about this also.


Yes I think he can correct for them but you're then paying a LOT for it to be corrected, and I wouldn't have wanted to spend that much.


----------



## charris (Feb 17, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> That was a long time ago. Other than issues reported by Terranova, I think most owners seem to be happy enough. I never understand owners of equipment, who on receiving it, immediately strip it down to check it over......seems a bit odd to me!


Don't most wise owners have to zero the burrs and check alignment on a new grinder? I am in talks with Laura for buying an M3. If I get it I will certainly make sure everything is aligned - after reading so much on this I would not be sure unless I do it. Probably this is the case with any grinder since very high precision is required and QC of manufacturers is not always the best even in ultra expensive items like exotic cars for example.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Didn't hear any complaints from anyone yesterday about the output from the m3 far from it , probably the most popular grinder of the day .


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The M3 arrives with the burrs closed for security in transport. You have to open them yourself to set it up. Zeroing therefore is kind of dine as part of the set up but since there is no display to see, then I cannot see much of a problem. I have faith in the product. It has been around quite a few years now and from the reading I have done all the problems seem to be with early machines. I only know of 2 users on this forum, and both have had them for ages and seem perfectly happy.


----------



## Viernes (Dec 10, 2011)

MarkyP said:


> This is really quite surprising!
> 
> Given the line-up I would have thought this would have been a number of different sub-battles going on...
> 
> ...


So the R120 finally works to make espresso like the EK43? It gives sweeter espresso (higher extraction) like the EK43? Did you tried in the party, guys?


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Viernes said:


> So the R120 finally works to make espresso like the EK43? It gives sweeter espresso (higher extraction) like the EK43? Did you tried in the party, guys?


Unfortunately we had a VST refractometer but no syringes or espresso filters so that bit couldn't be tested, for me the few shots I tried ground with the R120 were more to my liking than the ones from the EK43, I think I didn't really have enough of a play with it to come to any definite conclusions or observations. I obviously have no objective reasons for this but given the choice, the space and a reinforced bench I would go for the R120, maybe with the optional extension tube which might make dosing into a pf a lot easier, as I hated the having to grind into something and then pour it into the pf routine I found necessary with an MC2 so if I ever blew ~£2k on a grinder I wouldn't want to have to repeat all that faffing around.


----------



## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

R120 was a beast of a grinder , you are going to need a lot of counter space for this thing !

Did do a test to see which was fastest r120 or versalab even with a massive head start the r120 won ! Lol


----------



## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

Thecatlinux said:


> R120 was a beast of a grinder , you are going to need a lot of counter space for this thing !
> 
> Did do a test to see which was fastest r120 or versalab even with a massive head start the r120 won ! Lol


If you stuck a few chrome half domes all over it's body you could smuggle it in as a Dalek toy for the kids


----------



## Obnic (Jan 14, 2014)

Charliej said:


> If you stuck a few chrome half domes all over it's body you could smuggle it in as a Dalek toy for the kids


Renamed the Compak Davros


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Fantastic......Davros!!!

Named after the Darlek creator and Dave the dark lord of the giant burrs.


----------



## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Glenn said:


> Future Versalab owner here


And another here, I just pressed the button 10 minutes ago.


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

Fantastic, I was really impressed with the Versalab too


----------



## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Yeh I am quite excited. I have just made it into the August production so may have it around September. I also ordered the PF holder for the hell of it. It was a close call between this and the HG1. Having read the "what happened..." post and had time to reflect, I am still happy with my decision.


----------



## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

Glad you are happy you will love it perhaps we can get a VL sub forum going


----------



## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> Glad you are happy you will love it perhaps we can get a VL sub forum going


Good idea Dave. Can it be done Mr Boots?


----------



## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Wobin19 said:


> Good idea Dave. Can it be done Mr Boots?


Drop a line to Glenn

I dont have the functionality to set up sub forums


----------



## Wobin19 (Mar 19, 2013)

Will do. Cheers.


----------

