# Doser or doserless?



## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Still looking for a smallish domestic grinder and realised I don't really know the pros and cons or why and wherefore's of doser or doserless grinders.

There's lots of grinders on this page none of which I've heard of http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/products.php?cat=127

But the Isomac Macinino Prof Inox seems a good price (lol, it's the cheapest) is it any good?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Dont be afraid to buy second hand. What is your actual budget ?

please read this to understand what you can get for your money and other info

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17071-Grinders-what-do-you-get-for-your-money


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

smallblueplanet said:


> Still looking for a smallish domestic grinder and realised I don't really know the pros and cons or why and wherefore's of doser or doserless grinders.
> 
> There's lots of grinders on this page none of which I've heard of http://www.coffeeitalia.co.uk/products.php?cat=127
> 
> But the Isomac Macinino Prof Inox seems a good price (lol, it's the cheapest) is it any good?


Without sounding stupid, coffee can be and often is an expensive habit. If you buy the cheapest, it is unlikely that you will get good value, or good coffee from it. A grinder costing £500 second hand might well last you and your desires a lot longer than once costing £135 from a company who despite their claims, are based in Italy and seem to disappear when a problem occurs. Do you fancy sending your grinder back to Italy at your own expense if it breaks down?


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

No I don't fancy sending any grinder/coffee machine back to the retailer at my own expense if they are faulty - which is also what it says on Bella Barista for the 3yr warranty on the Mignon (unless I misread it). I only glanced at the website and thought I recognised Isomac grinders from way back in the early noughts when I bought the gaggia classic.

I am still unsure about buying a second hand grinder for two reasons it might be unfixable by me and will it fit under our kitchen cabinets, I'm assuming most pro grinders are big things.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

There is a wide range of grinders of all shapes and sizes. If you post your measurements people will help. You can get smaller hoppers for many grinders. I can only recall one person having a problem of any sort with a Mignon from this forum. Most members on here look after their kit. members come and go but there is a good hardcore. A lot of equipment gets bought and sold as well. I do not think anyone would knowingly rip another community member off. A grinder is just a case, a motor and a set of burrs. All are easily replaceable. Many grinders go on for years and years....


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Dont be afraid to buy second hand. What is your actual budget ?
> 
> please read this to understand what you can get for your money and other info
> 
> http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?17071-Grinders-what-do-you-get-for-your-money


Hi, I'm not totally averse to secondhand, but one I don't want to pay out over the odds for something I don't know the value of - you see people bid silly amounts for stuff on ebay all the time. And two although I did mod the gaggia with a silvia steam wand that really is the limit of my techno ability, so if a grinder needed work I'd be stuck.

My budget is moveable to a degree, maybe up to Mignon level or £300. But I'm not a believer in 'clean electricity' and although I could easily get carried away with upgradeitus I just want a nice cup of espresso/capaccino and have realised we now have the money to splash on a grinder and/or coffee machine.









The bottom of the kitchen cabinet is approx 38cm but the same height or smaller as the gaggia classic would be good.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Then don't buy off eBay . Have a budget and keep an eye on the sales threads here . Most thing are well priced and looked after .

I don't understand the reference to clean electricity .

Mignons have for around £200 recently on here, you are going to be very limited by the space you have to worn with .


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> I don't understand the reference to clean electricity.


Ah sorry. It's a hi-fi thing from the 80s (?) people swearing the could hear the difference with some gizmo that gave them clean electricity! Also similar to people who would put bits of paper under stuff like turntables and say it sounded better...


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

smallblueplanet said:


> Ah sorry. It's a hi-fi thing from the 80s (?) people swearing the could hear the difference with some gizmo that gave them clean electricity! Also similar to people who would put bits of paper under stuff like turntables and say it sounded better...


Up to you . If you ask opinions on equipment you will get them .

The grinder you linked is not one I am familiar with. It's lack of ownership on the forum may indicate it's quality and or uk availability . There are a lot of minon owners who are happy with their grinder though.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Up to you . If you ask opinions on equipment you will get them...


Yeah thanks I don't have problems with opinions on stuff and I'll google for info on the Isomac, maybe they're last years fashion.

The point I was trying to make with the 'clean electricity' is that it upgrading gets to a certain point and then the returns cease to be 'easily measurable' for some. People spend what they want or feel comfortable with - I could easily spend lots on coffee machines they look very cool, but I enjoy foreign holidays too and the budget has to go around.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

So, doser or doserless - what's the pros & cons please?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

smallblueplanet said:


> So, doser or doserless - what's the pros & cons please?


Did you read the link i posted ?

"Doser or Doserless

The convenience of pressing a button and having a lovely fluffy mound of coffee in your basket comes at a price. As mentioned before, one cost is retention, but the other cost is the extra money you have to pay for the delivery system of these grinders. Electronic doserless grinders cost more money than dosered equivalents either new or second hand, but are more convenient to use, in a busy environment the repeatability of pressing a button and having a portion close to your desired dose is invaluable, but is it so important in the home? I like using my robur as it is amazing grind quality (paramount for me personally) is quick and mess free, however I have to put up with 30grams of retention!!!! the equivalent dosered version has a lot less retention and cost a hell of a lot less to buy (especially second-hand) it can also have a timer added to it and sweep clean modifications done, it requires a little more effort but in the long term would cost you less (due to wasted stale coffee). So you have a choice, if you want to single dose (get out what you put in) you need to spend a lot of money or modify a dosered grinder which leads me onto my final point."


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

smallblueplanet said:


> Yeah thanks I don't have problems with opinions on stuff and I'll google for info on the Isomac, maybe they're last years fashion.
> 
> The point I was trying to make with the 'clean electricity' is that it upgrading gets to a certain point and then the returns cease to be 'easily measurable' for some. People spend what they want or feel comfortable with - I could easily spend lots on coffee machines they look very cool, but I enjoy foreign holidays too and the budget has to go around.


I don't think the Isomac have been any year's fashion .

With the height restrictions you have then a minion or a vario will probably be it i think .

I get your point re upgraditius bt £200 in the scheme of the grinder upgrade path , is pretty well at the bottom ....so being at the point of diminshing return would not be a concern .


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

smallblueplanet said:


> So, doser or doserless - what's the pros & cons please?


I wont answer that, , but I will say this.

I wonder how many new dosered grinders are sold in comparison to doserless for the home use market ?

In my mind I imagine 1 grinder in 20 grinders for the home market would have a doser now days.

Now, obviously I cant back this up with figures and anyone could dispute it for that reason.

But maybe there is someone involved in the retail of grinders who is privvy to that knowledge who could debunk my "unfounded" theory.

Also, you dont have to be a sheep and go with the majority, but they must want doserless for some reason.

Some might sing the virtues of a doser because they dont clump,, dont get hung up on the clumping issue is my response.

Also, i have no grinder for sale. i have no reason to say a dosered grinder is best, then HO, I just happen to have one for sale


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Also, you dont have to be a sheep and go with the majority, but they must want doserless for some reason.
> 
> Some might sing the virtues of a doser because they dont clump,, dont get hung up on the clumping issue is my response.


Baa!







I did see vid of the Mignon which showed the coffee coming out in little 'pellets' and folk were concerned by the effect it might have on taste. Me I just thought 'get a stick and stir the grounds to break 'em up'. I'm so naive!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I wont answer that, , but I will say this.
> 
> I wonder how many new dosered grinders are sold in comparison to doserless for the home use market ?
> 
> ...


Most of the dosered grinders that made their way into the home would have been ex cafe grinders.

In the day getting a SJ or Royal or Major ( the dosered variety ) that had more than likely come from Costa , meant that people could have beastly grinders in their house for a fraction of the cost new .

I think there are s few reasons why doserless grinders seem more popular now . The price of new decent ones , came down to a point that people could get some of the Eurekas for the home . More people have em , more people talk about em . It tends to be a function that people will recommend the kit they have , and most people seem to have doserless grinders nowadays . People get pit off by perceived faff , plus if people are buying more coffee in bulk 1-2kg of the same thing then dumping it in a hopper means that a doserless grinder can sit there with little adjustment .

Plus i blame dfk............


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> Did you read the link i posted ?


Thanks MrB I missed it, the shopping was delivered and the washing machine beeped...


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

smallblueplanet said:


> Baa!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you've just described the WDT, which is very a advanced technique, not for the naive


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Mrboots2u said:


> I don't think the Isomac have been any year's fashion .
> 
> With the height restrictions you have then a minion or a vario will probably be it i think .
> 
> I get your point re upgraditus bt £200 in the scheme of the grinder upgrade path , is pretty well at the bottom ....so being at the point of diminshing return would not be a concern .


Yeah I know I'm on the bottom rung, but atm I'm drinking pre-ground Taylors - we've been short of cash for a long while but I suddenly realised we could now afford to get new kit - I'd like something shiny and whizzy but we've not got that much, lol.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> you've just described the WDT, which is very a advanced technique, not for the naive


I saw that vid when looking at 3d printed funnels as I saw the Mignon made a bit of a mess when grinding - I didn't watch it then but just have...is it for real? And where can I buy that brand of yoghurt in the UK?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Sorry,, please dont do any of that leveling with your finger nonsense.

Dose the right amount for the basket and dont get it all over the show like in the video


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

I grind straight into a ceramic ramekin.

It makes it easier for me to weight than the entire PF and also has a bigger diameter than the portafilter so there's no mess from the chute of my mignon.

Being ceramic it doesnt introduce static into the procedure.

I think it came with some pâté in it originally.

Any clumps get dealt with while in the ramekin and then poured into the basket.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> I grind straight into a ceramic ramekin.
> 
> I think it came with some pâté in it originally.


I was thinking that very same thing, however does the type of pate matter because I'm a veggie?









ps how much should it weigh, the coffee that is?


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

smallblueplanet said:


> how much should it weigh, the coffee that is?


Bit of a trick question that, because it really depends on the size of your basket.

Ive got a 15g VST, i never go above 16gs otherwise it will give a false flow rate because of the restricted swelling of the puck.

Ive found 15.5gs works best for me with most beans, but some beans I only put in 15g some 15.8 gs I never go below 15g though.

So, basically sticking to within 1g either way of the designated basket size


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

smallblueplanet said:


> I was thinking that very same thing, however does the type of pate matter because I'm a veggie?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To some degree this will be driven by how much coffee you want to make ! As the output and taste will be driven by the dose


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## Jumbo Ratty (Jan 12, 2015)

Mrboots2u said:


> To some degree this will be driven by how much coffee you want to make ! As the output and taste will be driven by the dose


I thought we were talking about the ground coffee beans in the ceramic ramekin, which is what my answer was based on.


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## smallblueplanet (Dec 4, 2016)

Jumbo Ratty said:


> Bit of a trick question that, because it really depends on the size of your basket.
> 
> Ive got a 15g VST, i never go above 16gs otherwise it will give a false flow rate because of the restricted swelling of the puck.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll check how much the double basket for the classic holds.


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