# It is an EK thing



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ronsil just posted this on the DSOl thread

20g in 24 out in 50 seconds (EK thing). Ratio 1.1.3 for a ristretto. 93C

Can someone explain to me how this is not over extracted? I suspect the answer will be in the taste, but surely it flies against all other approaches, so what is it exactly that the EK does? And, I thought it was not so good on darker stuff or am I wrong?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

With that ratio of 1:1.3 its more likely to be nominally under extracted .....and i mean nominally , if it tastes good to Ron, it doesn't really matter what it is

Lets say Ron has a Strength ( tds of 12 -13 ) which would be bloody strong

then it would come out at around 16 % ey ( pre hum nom ? )

Under extracting a darker roasted bean will still leave it with those smoky flavours i suspect Ron likes...

Ron may have hot a tds of 15 ish and got a nominally extracted shot of 19% EY

To get to nominally over extracted it would need to have a tds of 18-19 ( I'm not sure if this is possible .... )


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I pulled a very similar shot this morning with the Bolivian bargain hasbean beans, 20g in, 30g out over 40 seconds, tamped a little to firm so it slowed the pour right down, dropped it in hot water, was lovely!


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> With that ratio of 1:1.3 its more likely to be nominally under extracted .....and i mean nominally , if it tastes good to Ron, it doesn't really matter what it is
> 
> Lets say Ron has a Strength ( tds of 12 -13 ) which would be bloody strong
> 
> ...


Martin, you may as well be talking Swahili!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> Martin, you may as well be talking Swahili!


Unless the coffee is of super human strength half as much again as a "norma"l ristretto , then it is more likely to be " Classified " as under extracted rather than over ...

it may be that strong of course , it may not ....

Of course it could be with that length of extraction ....who knows

if Rons likes it doesn't really matter.....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

My preference with the EK is for at least 2x out in a max of 25 secs. Have pulled 50 sec ristrettos out of curiosity before and they weren't my cup of tea


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

What Martin is getting at, is that although the shot was a long time, there probably wasn't enough water put through the puck to over-extract. The shot will be concentrated, but probably not washed as much solids out as you might in 40% brew ratio shot.

It gets easier to over-extract the more water you run through the puck.

People often use the term "over-extracted" to describe overly pungent short shots, but these are less likely to be over extracted, more likely lower extraction.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

It makes me wonder if I should not just accept defeat and buy one! But my alter ego says no......who will win?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> It makes me wonder if I should not just accept defeat and buy one! But my alter ego says no......who will win?


Being honest i wouldnt , as much as i would love to go

View attachment 13522


You hate faff and single dosing ...

You like on demand and big gloopy mouthfeel .....

Not an ideal match for you ....


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> It makes me wonder if I should not just accept defeat and buy one! But my alter ego says no......who will win?


You may have a corresponding preference point on your grinder where 1.2 to 1.3:1 shots taste good...may be similar extraction to Ron's, may not be, does 'the number' bother you enough to spend the money to find out?


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Ronsil just posted this on the DSOl thread
> 
> 20g in 24 out in 50 seconds (EK thing). Ratio 1.1.3 for a ristretto. 93C
> 
> Can someone explain to me how this is not over extracted? I suspect the answer will be in the taste, but surely it flies against all other approaches, so what is it exactly that the EK does? And, I thought it was not so good on darker stuff or am I wrong?


I wonder if he meant 20g into 50g in 24 seconds? To me that would be an EK thing.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

EK is a grinder, it probably does a few things.

Regular grinders often taste good ~13%EY (I prefer the big hump, ~20%, but if I can't get past 18% sometimes settle for lower), maybe Ron is onto an equivalent range for the EK?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> I wonder if he meant 20g into 50g in 24 seconds? To me that would be an EK thing.


Scale screen shot says 24 g


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

MWJB said:


> EK is a grinder, it probably does a few things.
> 
> Regular grinders often taste good ~13%EY (I prefer the big hump, ~20%, but if I can't get past 18% sometimes settle for lower), maybe Ron is onto an equivalent range for the EK?


I replicated one of Ron's recipes before, obviously don't have the same machine but it came out about 14% IIRC


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

So, where is the best place to buy an EK these days, and I guess will need a refractometer as well?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> So, where is the best place to buy an EK these days, and I guess will need a refractometer as well?


April fool's was a while ago now


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> So, where is the best place to buy an EK these days, and I guess will need a refractometer as well?


Its not April 1st anymore it it?


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

dfk41 said:


> So, where is the best place to buy an EK these days, and I guess will need a refractometer as well?


 Can I have first dibs when you sell it ?


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> April fool's was a while ago now


Who is this April you refer to and why is she a fool?

Any advice on the best burr set as getting the wrong one is costly


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

If you are serious you can borrow my refrac for a while, don't imagine you'll need it for too long


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

jeebsy said:


> If you are serious you can borrow my refrac for a while, don't imagine you'll need it for too long


thats a kind offer jeebsy.I am still at the thinking about it stage but usually thats no more than 48 hours or so. Will be back in touch matey


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

dfk41 said:


> Who is this April you refer to and why is she a fool?
> 
> Any advice on the best burr set as getting the wrong one is costly


You should be fine with Coffee burrs if you are going to be sticking with highly developed roasts, less developed roasts can push the coffee burrs to the limits.

If it's the first then I've heard many people say that the EK doesn't work too well for these type of roasts. I don't have much experience though, Ron's the best person to ask on here I would guess.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i think i ave just woken up in a strange dream!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> i think i ave just woken up in a strange dream!


Is Bobby Ewing still dead ..


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> i think i ave just woken up in a strange dream!


Donnie Darko


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> i think i ave just woken up in a strange dream!


You have? What about me, having to swallow my pride potentially?


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Ultimately If Ron likes the drink he made that's all that matters , the number count for nothing ...


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Is Bobby Ewing still dead ..


No, he's just gone back to Atlantis


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dfk41 said:


> You have? What about me, having to swallow my pride potentially?


Im gonna have to get that t shirt made up for you , with all the EK quotes on it now


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## Xpenno (Nov 12, 2012)

coffeechap said:


> i think i ave just woken up in a strange dream!


I think someone's hacked DFK's account.... Next he'll post up saying he's found a really nice Wedelboe coffee we should all try


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

or "Dark is so yesterday"


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

Xpenno said:


> I think someone's hacked DFK's account.... Next he'll post up saying he's found a really nice Wedelboe coffee we should all try


You've found me out.....

I am anonymous....


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> Im gonna have to get that t shirt made up for you , with all the EK quotes on it now


XXXl please, but not yet.....


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

coffeechap said:


> or "Dark is so yesterday"


Yesterday , all my lightness seemed so far away ...

Now it looks as though it's here to stay

He will need a perg tamp, jam funnel, and a photo of Matt


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

i have gone to the chemist to get some ear cleaning products and then to wait rose (of course) to get my ingredients for a huge Pie!


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Mrboots2u said:


> You hate faff and single dosing ...
> 
> You like on demand and big gloopy mouthfeel .....
> 
> Not an ideal match for you ....


...and I think David you really like the pretty lights & stuff. That is really why you didn't like the Versalab & won't like the EK.

They are too in your face & simple looking.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

ronsil said:


> ...and I think David you really like the pretty lights & stuff. That is really why you didn't like the Versalab & won't like the EK.
> 
> They are too in your face & simple looking.


Ron - the fifty second shot you ran

Whats ws the PP btw...


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Xpenno said:


> You should be fine with Coffee burrs if you are going to be sticking with highly developed roasts, less developed roasts can push the coffee burrs to the limits..


,,,silly you of course dfk will buy both sets of burrs. Then sell it all on.


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

Been out for a few hours & just catching this thread.

Unbelievable, no other word!!!.

In the name of thunder - what the hell are you going to do with a refrac.









Jampit your way will always give you the same TDS.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Ron - did you try 25-30 secs first but decide you preferred pulling them slower? If so what differences did you notice/why do you prefer the shots that take more time?


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## ronsil (Mar 8, 2012)

When I have to produce drinks for a crowd I do go back to circa 30/32 secs using a lever style profile on the Vesuvius with 18 grams in & a slightly coarser grind to produce circa 30 grams out

Its quicker & still produces a very tasty drink.

However I usually dial in the DSOL/LSOL beans to suit myself & with this month's DSOL I very much liked the thick essence (ristretto) that the longer time,tighter grind gave me. Great for Americano at breakfast.


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

No comment


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