# Saving the world from mediocre coffee...



## Jugglestruck (Nov 17, 2011)

While buying a coffee from Costas in the motorway services outside Reading recently a Costas delivery lorry pulled up outside with the words 'Saving the world from mediocre coffee' emblazoned on the side.

I turned to the, ehem, barista, and said how great it was that when Amnesty International are freeing prisoners of conscience, Green Peace are preventing global warming and countless people worldwide are risking their lives for the betterment of mankind, that Costas are doing their bit by saving the world from mediocre coffee.

The, ehem, barista, looked at me with sweat breaking out on his brow, his eyes glazed and befuddled as if I had asked him if his biscotti contained free range or battery eggs.

His fingers twitched nervously over the alarm button which would bring instant relief from people more untrustworthy than you can imagine but still don a badge saying 'Security'.

His hand retreated from the button and he emitted a high pitched nervous laugh before giving me a cup of mediocre coffee.

There's irony for you I thought.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

You have to quietly appreciate irony but never comment less they hear you.

I might start a new coffee shop brand with the slogan 'Saving the world from Costa Coffee' emblazoned on my shop windows.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Haha this is so true. I used to think what we served at work was the best of the best, it's not horribly disgustingly bad but now I've tasted coffee that's been made with care, that even I haven't perfected yet, the difference is amazing from Costa! But it is thanks to the Costa I now work at that's helped me gain a few skills, be able to afford my home equipment and use an industrial machine.


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

I must say every time I follow a Costa truck with that written on the back it makes me laugh! For me Costa is the definition of mediocre coffee.


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## cjbailey1 (Jan 17, 2011)

SlowRoast said:


> Haha this is so true. I used to think what we served at work was the best of the best, it's not horribly disgustingly bad but now I've tasted coffee that's been made with care, that even I haven't perfected yet, the difference is amazing from Costa! But it is thanks to the Costa I now work at that's helped me gain a few skills, be able to afford my home equipment and use an industrial machine.


One of the people that works at the Costa in the Wightlink terminal down here does actually care about what they are doing and I have had some "nice" coffee from there, rather than the mediocre rubbish in a lot of other Costas. The one I really hate is Starbucks - if the cup is too hot to hold (every time...) then you've burnt the milk!!


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I did actually get a passable rosette in my latte the other day. Roast was way too dark and bitter and it was definitely over extracted (bad combo) but at least it looked good.

@slowroast - the bags of beans you use at costa will have a production date code on, 5 digit number. Try and sneak a peak at what it is so we can see how fresh the beans are. Also do you get latte art training?


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## blaclcoffeeforme (Jan 11, 2012)

cjbailey1 said:


> One of the people that works at the Costa in the Wightlink terminal down here does actually care about what they are doing and I have had some "nice" coffee from there, rather than the mediocre rubbish in a lot of other Costas. The one I really hate is Starbucks - if the cup is too hot to hold (every time...) then you've burnt the milk!!


I was actually wondering how come everybody takes on Costa, and nodoby on Starbucks. In my opinion they're just as bad. I was actually talking to an Italian the other day. He was saying no one would even dare open a Starbucks in Italy (maybe in Rome or Milan there are some, for the tourists). I found that quite funny.


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

blaclcoffeeforme said:


> He was saying no one would even dare open a Starbucks in Italy (maybe in Rome or Milan there are some, for the tourists).


Not even in Milan or Rome! Italy is a Starbucks-free zone. But for those who can't survive without bilge water, there are some Starbucks-style coffee (if you can call it that) places in Milan called Arnold's who will oblige.


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## Robert Kindle (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbucks is probably classed as treason in Italy ..


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## Shuttergirl (Oct 27, 2011)

Well, at least Costas do cups... Have you see the things served up in Starbucks? Its like drinking out of a chiselled brick! On the occasions where Ive been obliged to don a balaclava & venture in, I've had to ask for a paper cup to drink from. & get a Cappucino to let the milk mask the beans. Then a dose of a syrup to mask them even further...

That said, I am a bit partial to an iced Starbucks coffee when its really hot. But thats not classed as proper coffee, anyway, is it? (*says that to feel less guilty*....☺)


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Starbucks sell coffee?????????


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

Starbucks is by far one of the worst coffee shops around. They were bad before the super autos but theyre diabolical now.

Costa is also shockingly bad and I doubt you could possibly get a 'nice' coffee from those beans no matter how skilled the barista.

I used to think costa was nice and doing 45,000 miles a year in my van I used to drink a fair few lattes. Since I got into coffee in a serious way I haven't bought a drink from a big chain coffee shop for years. I'd rather have a cup of tea.


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## mike 100 (Jul 15, 2010)

garydyke1 said:


> Starbucks sell coffee?????????


News to me!


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

I think that it is easy to lose sight of the fact that Starbucks are responsible for introducing the concept of espresso based coffee to the public at large. I am old enough to remember when coffee in UK cafes was totally abysmal - either instant or stewed. I am no fan of the major chains, but Starbucks in particular do get my vote of thanks for drawing people's attention to the fact that there was life after Maxwell House.

Sent via Tapatalk


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## vintagecigarman (Aug 10, 2009)

ChrisP said:


> Costa is also shockingly bad and I doubt you could possibly get a 'nice' coffee from those beans no matter how skilled the barista.


So where is Sandy when Costa need her to come to the rescue!

(Sandykt was a regular poster on this site - a real stalwart who was always first in to welcome newcomers - but has been missing for a while due to family health problems.She was (is) a real lover of Costa beans and defended them vigorously!)


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## Monkey_Devil (Jul 11, 2011)

Am i the only person who simply can't stomach costa, Starbucks and Nero? Its not an elitism thing, but my palate has adjusted. I used to drink then when i was younger, except Starbucks which I've never understood why people hand them money. I've tried both Nero and Costa once each in the last six month. Both tasted like freshly squeezed tractor tyres.


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

Costa can't be defended. Their beans are the same dark roast, mass produced, generic rubbish as all the other chains. Starbucks may have introduced coffee to the masses but they've gone down hill....massively......they're producing far worse drinks than they were 6 or 7 years ago. A product should progress and get better not get worse. I don't mind a company making a profit at all but not at the expense of the product getting worse. I personally don't think they deserve any credit. I bought a latte from a Coffee Nation vending machine the other day and it was far superior to

Starbucks.......a vending machine!


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, I've looked at some of the dates on the bags before. A lot have been sat around for quite I while I think, last time I looked I remember I was horrified! But I can't remember them exactly. I'll take a look tomorrow on my break as that's where they sit and wait.

We get basic florette training for the flat white, but that's it. I've practically self taught all my skills and stuff the entire time I've been there.


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Still James, it must be nice to have access to awesome machines.

You should ask if you can try making a shot with some fresh beans after work one day.

Ask your manager if he/she would be interested in a fresh bean day promotion


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Oh yeah the machines are pretty awesome indeed, but poorly maintained. And the lack of a proper tamper is not very fun. The grinder burrs are probably near useless in terms of consistency and quality, when doing a grind and dose, one minute it's great, the next it's awful. It's getting very difficult to get an exact grind now. And the machine itself is good, but the seals are ruined, and results in coffee grinds going down the sides of cups (Presumably rupturing the puck in the same process?) and some odd shots.

Haha, I think I'd get shot for mentioning the freshness of the beans, considering I get shot for cleaning a group handle basket!


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## wastedhours (Jan 2, 2012)

I remember seeing somewhere that commercial machines have to be backflushed every hour, is that right? More to the point, is it actually done?

Even though it might not be the best in the world, Costa is what got me interested in coffee, and I think it is good you can start off with something accessible and then build from there. I think it would be difficult for any chain to improve freshness and quality in the time-constraints of a busy store and the scale at which they operate, especially as many (but not all) of the barist(as/i) seem to be just employees rather than coffee fanatics themselves.

For me, it's like McDonalds. Once you get over the fact it's not going to be the best burger you've ever tasted, you enjoy it all the more I find. A Flat White and a Chocolate Twist from Costa is nice when you just accept what you're getting (and heck, it beats instant or most vending machines hands-down).

This isn't a Kiwi with a Strada and a water supply, and I don't think it can really be judged on the same scale. Costa has probably gotten a lot of people into the speciality coffee world - so they have saved people from mediocre coffee, just not necessarily with their own offering.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

We only backflush at the end of day with detergent, I'd backflush during the day but I'd get told to do "Better things". You can certainly tell which group head gets most abuse, the one next to the grinder. It's always filthy! Depends who cleaned it the night before though, some people do it properly, some people don't. There's so many variables.

I agree there, Costa is also what got me interested. I remember watching the baristas do their thing, I loved it. I thought I was getting the best coffee in the world, and would only go to a Costa anywhere I went. Now I'm always on the hunt for little independent espresso bars. Of which I'm lacking any luck...

But like you say, some are just there for the pay. If Costa improved their bean freshness, and got rid of that nasty 20 second extraction time, things would be a whole lot better. The bag of beans we were using today were produced on 10/12/11 ...


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## SteveyG (Dec 24, 2011)

ChrisP said:


> I bought a latte from a Coffee Nation vending machine the other day and it was far superior to
> 
> Starbucks.......a vending machine!


You should try it from the new Coffee Nation machines which will be replacing the old ones soon. They came to us to improve their machine a year or so ago, so it now self cleans etc, but we also completely replaced the tamping, grinding and milk frothing mechanisms.

It makes sense that you can get a better coffee from a machine since it is consistant day after day, and we can tweak every parameter.


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## brun (Dec 26, 2011)

i think some of the comments in here are pretty funny, your all talking like Costa, Starbucks, Nero etc, serve liquid shit, now im new to all this 'proper coffee' business, ive only just got my gaggia a few weeks ago, im still using pre ground and yup i drink americano, so i guess my palate isnt quite the same as you guys, but their not that bad !

i actually quite like an americano from starbucks and nero, not as much costa but ill drink it, maybe when i get a grinder or start drinking espresso ill taste what your all talking about, but at the minute the difference between what im making at home, and what they serve, isnt a million miles apart really, and ive visited a few Patisserie Valerie places that use Illy and i love that, again americano

yup ive had some that were shit, but on the whole ive been served pretty decent coffee from them, the Starbucks in Warrington near Ikea/M&S has never served me a bad one, and the Nero in Wigan town centre is good too

i think the difference between instant coffee is far bigger


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## SteveyG (Dec 24, 2011)

I know what you mean. I've never had a coffee from Starbucks and spat it out because it tasted like crap, but taste is very subjective. One persons idea of a nice coffee may be a million miles away from someone elses. There is also an attitue of an air of supremecy over anything served to the masses for a lot of people who are 'in to' coffee, or anything else for that matter.

Just carry on trying to improve on what tastes good to you.


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## MikeHag (Mar 13, 2011)

When I've worked commercial machines I've found it is critical to do a water backflush and blind basket 'waggle' hourly, whether it is busy or not. If you don't then the espresso begins to taste worse due to old grinds and oils that are exposed to air. The group head brush is never far from reach either.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I think the most I could get away with is scrubbing all three groups when someone has their back turned. I do flush them out as much as I possibly can get away with, no matter how busy. Normally hitting the three shot button allows the water to run until I get back to put the handle in. It's sad really I think, that if I was to suggest something that will most likely have a drastic improvement on quality, just gets laughed at. Not everyone likes adding sugar to cover up poor quality coffee...


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Ask for a look at Costa's 2011 sales and profit figures and then you'll see why they aren't bothered.

People are just coming around to realise there is more to life than instant mud/gravy.

They aren't ready for perfect brew ratio espresso that had a 28 second extraction and a TDS within desirable ranges.

It would take a new competitor chain that perhaps all had on site roasteries and just got deliveries of green bean every week with pricing similar to Costa and with highly skilled staff; for people to realise what the are missing en mass.

Not feasible?


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## SteveyG (Dec 24, 2011)

fatboyslim said:


> It would take a new competitor chain that perhaps all had on site roasteries and just got deliveries of green bean every week with pricing similar to Costa and with highly skilled staff; for people to realise what the are missing en mass.
> 
> Not feasible?


I doubt you'd sway that many people away from costa or starbucks though even if there was better available. It's no different to McDonalds - you can get far better burgers elsewhere for a similar price, but when people are hungry they see the McDonalds sign and that's enough. If someone needs their caffine fix, they're not really caring how it tastes so long as it's good enough.


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

This is true. I should imagine sales were through the roof. I'm working in the busiest shop of our franchise.

Some customers don't realise that, we get asked to put an extra spoon (or one less) of "powder" in the cup! But most do know it's better than instant.

28 seconds is within the perfect brew ratio? I'll give that a go here at home.

Costa have brainwashed everyone though to think 20 seconds is great, my assistant manager was horrified when I said I'm loving this shot as it poured out thick and slow (I may have overdosed the basket and tamped quite hard in an poor attempt to get past that 20 second extraction for my own drink, ha!).


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

Lol does anyone know the perfect brew ratio? I just pulled 28 seconds out of a hat. I extracted some Has Bean coffee at 38 seconds the other day and it tasted great.

Its all about gauging where you are at with your first extraction and adjusting according.

At least Costa don't use super auto machines and they employ at least a few people that actually care about coffee (you're my only example at the moment).


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

I wouldn't be so sure myself, so many different beans and blends... I suppose some are more tolerant than others.

Oh yeah, I'd hate to use one of them on a day to day basis... I drank from one reluctantly one morning at a Premier Inn in a crave for a bit of caffeine and out of interest. Needless to say it was disgusting. The milk, my god!


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## Tristan (Dec 29, 2011)

I have to admit I love the frappucinos from starbucks, but thats my sweet-tooth taking over, I dont think they have a bean in them, even if they did I wouldnt associate them with coffee. Even my sister who knows little about coffee said to me "I had a coffee in starbucks the other day and physically threw up in the toilets it made my stomach flip so badly". I think thats beyond bad, and actually quite an achievement!


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## ChrisP (Jun 19, 2011)

I was out shopping the other month with my missus and we popped in

Starbucks. I bought a latte. I had 2 - 3 mouthfulls and chucked it in the bin. The taste if the coffee wasn't worth the hindrance of the weight of the cup in my hand. Dreadful.

Big chains will always do well as they have huge marketing budgets nd the general public have never had amazing coffee and they probably never will. Once you've had it though it's hard to drink anything else.


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## gazbea (Jul 11, 2011)

Tristan said:


> I have to admit I love the frappucinos from starbucks, but thats my sweet-tooth taking over


I'm with you on that one Starbucks := frappucino. Costa = frescato! Mmmmmm mango frescato on a hot summers day! Nom nom nom!


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## SlowRoast (Sep 24, 2010)

Mango frescatos are lush indeed!

But there's something in the puree that makes it not blend properly... I'm known for choking up the blenders trying to blend two mediums at once.







I've never had a Frappuccino from Charbucks... Probably should.


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## xiuxiuejar (Jan 24, 2012)

As an espresso drinker, I find all these big coffee chains a no go - awful burnt syrup or just dirty water! I used to like Caffe Nero when it first started but as soon as they went national, the standards dropped.


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## Jugglestruck (Nov 17, 2011)

Tristan said:


> I have to admit I love the frappucinos from starbucks, but thats my sweet-tooth taking over, I dont think they have a bean in them, even if they did I wouldnt associate them with coffee. Even my sister who knows little about coffee said to me "I had a coffee in starbucks the other day and physically threw up in the toilets it made my stomach flip so badly". I think thats beyond bad, and actually quite an achievement!


Blimey, I didn't think SB's was that bad......has your sister tried doing a pregnancy test recently


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