# Gaggia Classic Solenoid on its way out



## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Just replaced the steam valve and it now seems the solenoid is looking dodgy. Steam coming from the head and for some reason the flow has suddenly gone all constipated even though I haven't changed beans or grind it is struggling to push out the water taking well over a minute to get to 28g from 18g and that is even if I don't put any pressure on the tamper but only nutate to even out the coffee grinds.

Really can't afford to get another. So can they be taken apart and descaled or whatever you need to do? I have back flushed descaled etc but to no avail. I've noticed the steam valve is spitting out water from the wand again too and I've only just replaced that. I've been really careful not to over tighten it when turning it off as I read somewhere that could be the reason for leakage from the steam valve and wand.

Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## gaggiamanualservice.com (Dec 22, 2009)

Try the link on my faq on my website for solenoid issues . It directs to the wiki page on here.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Thanks to El Carajillo and Mark for your advice.

So I tackled the task of removing and dismantling the solenoid valve.

Wasn't as bad as I thought and once removed and dismantled found it was as clean as a whistle. No build up of anything and blowing through it and passing water there was no blockage or reduced flow at all. Great!........but...

Apart from the question as to why steam was being therefore released through the group head if the solenoid seemed ok that was the least of my problems.

My Gaggia had a PID fitted by the owner prior to me. To get to the solenoid I had to disconnect all the wires and take it out. I was meticulous in writing down what wires went where......well so I thought, because when I put it back together there was a wire I hadn't noticed. it was just dangling there. So I guess it was a matter of elimination and the worst that could happen was a blown fuse. I tried first one connection and the temp on the PID although set at 98 degrees just kept rising and wouldn't switch off and the brew switch flashed on and off like a demented ambulance on an emergency run. OK, so try another connection and this time the temp just didn't rise at all but at least the brew switch stopped blinking on and off and just stayed on. Three different connections later and the same result no movement in the temperature and the light staying on.

So I tried the steam switch. The temperature started to rise 25....30.....50......70.....90....110....140...150...Suddenly the brew switch started to click and flash on and off like it was having a dicky fit! So I quickly cut the power.

So I haven't got a Scooby where this wire should be connected and consequently my Gaggia is now useless. It's strange because it comes from something that looks like a plug with the prongs taken off where one wire seems to go to the wiring on the boiler heaters and then splits and goes to the PID.

It obviously something to do with the cut off when the temp set on the PID is reached by the boiler, but for the life of me I just cannot see where on the PID it can go. From the way the wire spade was bent it could only have come from the bottom of the PID but none of the obvious connections I tried have worked. I'll see if I can get a couple of pictures of the wiring set up and maybe one of you clever chaps can advise.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

If you take some photos of the wire and where it connects to I'm sure I can help you figure out where it should go.

Are you 100% sure you got all the other wires back in the right places?


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

100%? Well I thought I was but after seeing the one lone cocky kittle bugger sitting there as brazen as you like with a 'Come on and connect me if you can muther!' attitude, I'm beginning to doubt myself.

As I said I'll take lots of photos and post them up.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

The only reason I ask is that it could be the old disconnected thermostat wires which have been left in after the PID was installed, so they may be intentionally not connected. So you may be trying to find a home for something that doesn't need a home!


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Glad you did ask and if you knew me it isn't a daft or condescending question.

I did try without it being disconnected but that's when the brew switch blinked like a bloke with a nervous twitch and some grit in his eye.

Having said that you could be right, perhaps it shouldn't be connected and I've put one of the others on wrong.

Pictures coming soon.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

The brew light should blink madly with a PID fitted. That's normal, especially whilst warming up.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Well whilst it certainly blinked, not at the rate it does now and the boiler temp stopped going up at what I set it on the PID but now it just did not switch off at the temp set and keeps rising.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

So I've written down the wiring as best I can. Hope you can help. The question mark is the wire I haven't a clue where it goes.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

What model of PID is it?

And what is the plug shaped thing that the wire comes from? Do you have a photo of this?

I suspect it may be the second SSR for the steam function?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Having looked a bit further at your diagram, I can't see any temperature sensor connection to the PID? Have you deliberately left this out? You should have a 2 or 3 core wire coming from a sensor in the boiler wall going back to 2 or 3 pins on the PID.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Here is a picture of the plug shaped thing with the wire coming out of the top that inside has a very thin red and black wire that go to terminals 5 and 7 respectively on the PID. The red wire at the bottom goes to the steam switch and the black wire coming out of the bottom is the spare I have no clue where it should go.

The PID is an New 2006 Power model No N2006P-612









The two core wire coming from the boiler sensor are white/red to terminal 9 and white/blue to terminal 10 on the PID . Sorry I left those off the drawing accidently.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I will have to have a bit more of a study tomorrow, but this looks like a bit of a cowboy job. I'm assuming that is a transformer plug that has been hacked to be used to step down 240v to 12v.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Ok, I think I've figured out what's going on here.

Usually, people install a 2nd SSR to control the steam function, which can take an 240v input (An SSR AA), however what the previous owner has done here is to use a single 12v input SSR and he's used an old transformer plug off an old appliance to step down 240v AC to

Anyways, assuming you just want to keep the old transformer plug in there as it was, *then I'm fairly sure the black mystery wire should go back to neutral* - there are several neutral points inside the gaggia but to keep things simple, if it will reach, connect it to the incoming power at the rear of the gaggia, on the neutral pin, the same one as the wire from pin 2 on the PID - alternatively you could connect it directly to pin 2 of the PID.

This should fix the issue, however it doesn't explain why you were having problems before because the disconnection of this black wire should only affect the steaming function not the brew function.

Have all the settings remained the same in the PID whilst it has been disconnected? i.e. is the brew set point and AL1 set point still the same as it was before you stripped it out, because obviously this would affect a lot of the functions?

If you wanted to check all the PID settings without the boiler working etc. then you could just leave pins 1 and 2 in place and disconnect the other pins from the PID. This will allow the PID to power up so you can check settings etc. without the boiler heating up and doing any damage etc.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

NJD1977 thanks very much for such a detailed response. I put the loose wire to connection 2 on the PID and switched on. Nothing, in respect of the lower green figures were at 98 which is what I had originally set them at and the top red numbers instead of rising steadily until reaching the same as the lower number 98 just stayed static at about 24. The only time the top number increased is when I hit the steam switch, then it rose fairly quickly. The brew button light came on at about 145 the temp carried on rising to 155, the brew light went out, then the temp started to decline and when it hit 145 the brew light switched on again and the temp again rose to 155 and so the cycle continued. So the temp control for steaming seems to be working.

What is not happening is when the steam switch is off and the machine is just turned on, the boiler is not heating up at all. I haven't touched the PID settings but if they have moved away from what was set by the original installer (although it doesn't seem the steam settings have) after disconnecting all the wires, then even with the paperwork that came with it giving guidelines on setting the PID I can't make head nor tail of it. I wouldn't even know where to start to look for setting the brew and AL1 parameters.

I guess I should have been happy with a dripping group head instead of fiddling.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Hmmm. Strange. Another suggestion. Try reversing the polarity of the connections from 6 & 7 on the PID to the SSR. The SSR is usually pole dependent and if you've accidentally connected up the wires the wrong way round to pins 3 and 4 on the SSR then this would cause the SSR to not activate and hence no heat cycle. Seems strange that it would work under the steam function though.

Try that first and see if it fixes the brew function. There should be an activation LED light on the SSR, if that isn't lighting up when you switch the machine on, then that's a problem. If that isn't lighting it means the SSR isn't completing the circuit and no electricity will flow to the boiler elements. A simple reverse of the wires to 3 & 4 of the SSR may get that SSR activating again. It can't be your boiler element at fault because its heating fine under steam control. And it also can't be the SSR at fault for the same reason.

Edit: the more I think about it, the more certain I am that's your problem. Swap pin 6 to SSR4 and pin 7 to SSR3. And just disconnect the stream function for the minute to get the brew function working.

Don't worry, we'll get you up and running again soon, there's only so many things it can be, and its all pretty basic wiring and technology.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Pompeyexile said:


> So I've written down the wiring as best I can. Hope you can help. The question mark is the wire I haven't a clue where it goes.
> 
> View attachment 13192


Ignore my last post (I think!), had a look for the manual on your PID and found it here http://fhupiora.fhupiora.home.pl/JLD612Manual.pdf. Your SSR is wired up the right way round from PID terminals 6 & 7 but what does appear to be the wrong way round is the outputs from SSR1 and SSR2. According to my wiring in my PID, terminal SSR1 should go to the brew-switch bottom pin, and SSR2 should go to the steam-switch top pin.

Refer to the attached for a link on the wiring for a PID on a gaggia classic. Although this isn't identical to your set up, the principles are very similar. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YKahCYmW8_O8aR2HE877M7nzGrYzTuF3Lse6WfiQsog/edit


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

I'm at work at the moment (lunch break honest gov) but will be home by 5:30 and will crack on with your suggestion and report back. had a look at the link and yes that's my PID. The other link looks useful too but remember I have the mind of Catweazel when it comes to anything to do with this magic thing you call elctrickery.

Hope this works as I've just had an IMS screen delivered too and want to see what difference that will make to my extraction.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Got home at 5:15 and immediately set to work.......an hour and a half later..............

When I switch it on now, the top part of the PID no longer has a static number, in fact it doesn't have any numbers at all. I know I live up t'north now, but even the PID has gone all Yorkshire on me by just showing a row of the letter E as in EEEEEEEEE like it's saying 'Eeee by gum lad, you've really buggered me up now!'

Bewildered, bemused, befuddled.........but not beaten!


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## SmnByt (Feb 23, 2015)

Pompeyexile said:


> Got home at 5:15 and immediately set to work.......an hour and a half later..............
> 
> When I switch it on now, the top part of the PID no longer has a static number, in fact it doesn't have any numbers at all. I know I live up t'north now, but even the PID has gone all Yorkshire on me by just showing a row of the letter E as in EEEEEEEEE like it's saying 'Eeee by gum lad, you've really buggered me up now!'
> 
> Bewildered, bemused, befuddled.........but not beaten!


EEEE is an error. It usually indicates the PID can't recognize the thermocouple (TC). Either you have the wrong code set for the type of TC or the TC is incorrectly wired to the PID or a bad TC. The TC/PID is polar sensitive so make sure you have the +/- wired correctly also.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Which connections did you alter?

Seems really strange that the PID would power on but show eeee now as this is normally to do with the thermocouple input which clearly worked before because it was fine with the steam function.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

So I've checked and checked and checked again the wiring and it wasn't until I had the power on again and touched the blue and white wire going to connection 10 that there was a click and the EEEEs disappeared and the number re-appeared at the top. But it still stayed static and didn't rise which meant the boiler wasn't heating up.

So I thought the connection was loose or the wire inside the spade connection and I duly started to undo the screw and guess what, the whole screw along with the metal part it screwed into which went into the body of the PID came away.

I've tried putting it back in but the small metal tail that goes inside the body of the PID has obviously snapped off. So it looks like a new PID is in order so I'll start looking on Ebay. Hopefully a new PID and the thing might actually work.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

OK so I've been on Ebay and there are lots of cheap PIDS and I've found exactly the same model as the one I have and the reason I have gone for that is because as you know my PID has been incorporated into the body of the Gaggia which means there has been a hole cut out of the side to fit it and I didn't want to take the chance a different model would not fit the hole.

At the moment there are 6 hours to go (which means I'll be up until past 1am) and it stands at a bid of £2.60 and £9.99 postage.

But I have another question. I've noticed in pictures showing the fitting of these there are also usually two solid state relays. I have one (an SSR 40DA) but I believe there is usually an SSR 40 AA that should accompany it. Is this correct? Now, I have this odd doctored plug thingy; has that been put in place of the SSR 40 AA or is that nothing to do with it? If it has been put in as a replacement, as I'm ordering the PID would it be wise to also get the other relay? They only cost about £3.69 including postage.

The way this is going I'll be doing a whole re-build! And I still haven't sorted out why there is steam and water coming out of the group head.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Yes it would be wise to get an AA SSR then you can get rid of that dodgy transformer job. When you get your new PID I would just start the wiring afresh and just use the instructions in the link I posted earlier in this thread. You may need a bit of extra wire for the new SSR and some spades etc. I've got some spare wire and spades / piggybacks if you need them, just PM me and I can stick them in the post.

You'll get there!


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

NJD1977 Thanks again for your help it really is appreciated.

I'll order both then, the PID is still at £2.60 but who knows just before the time ticks down it might jump up but we'll see. I have a crimping set with some spade connections I've had sat in my shed for years just waiting for such an opportunity but again thanks for the offer.

The PID is coming from Hong Kong so it'll take a couple of weeks no doubt. You can guarantee I'll be in touch as soon as I get into difficulty, which I fully expect to....Hah!


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Is the REX C100 not the same cut out size? If it is you can get UK stock of those in 2 days for £10.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Looking at the measurements the Rex is a lot longer in the body by about 3cm and the N2006P only just fits as it is. Don't know why nobody in the UK seems to sell it unless it's because it's an older model.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

So PID £17.47 delivered and relay £3.69 delivered ordered but coming from Hong Kong and China respectively, expected between the 20th and 30th April.......Thank goodness I've got my Aeropress!

Just noticed something after ordering, the PID description says 110 volts; have I buggered up?


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## MrShades (Jul 29, 2009)

Yes


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Yes unfortunately you've ordered an american voltage one. Honestly I'd just check the cut out dims and see if a Rex or sestos will fit. Then you can get a UK stock one very quickly.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

I am a right [email protected] sometimes! My only excuse was it was a bidding jobby and it didn't end until gone one in the morning and I was knackered. Actually that's a load of bull because I went by the picture and make rather than reading the damn blurb! so I really am a [email protected]! Anyhow I have emailed them explaining I need a 240v one (they do them) and can they replace it.

I have and did look at Rex and Sestos but they either wouldn't fit the cut-out or in the case of the Rex protruded much too far into the machine.


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## marcuswar (Aug 19, 2013)

Don't get into bidding wars Pompey and certainly don't stay up waiting for the auction end time, just set your limit and use a sniping service like www.auctionstealer.co.uk or www.gixen.com to place the bid for you. ( still got to bid on the right item though







)


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

I think it may be OK. I've looked at the one in my machine and it says on it AC/DC 85V to 265V. The one I've ordered the specification says for power supply voltage 85 to 360V DC or 85 to 265V AC.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Ah that's fine then.


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## teejay41 (Mar 9, 2015)

Pompeyexile said:


> I am a right [email protected] sometimes! My only excuse was it was a bidding jobby and it didn't end until gone one in the morning and I was knackered. Actually that's a load of bull because I went by the picture and make rather than reading the damn blurb! so I really am a [email protected]! Anyhow I have emailed them explaining I need a 240v one (they do them) and can they replace it.
> 
> I have and did look at Rex and Sestos but they either wouldn't fit the cut-out or in the case of the Rex protruded much too far into the machine.


Hi Pompeyexile.

I recently bought a Rex PID and while it was OK, it didn't match its eBay description insofar as it had no alarm output, So while it would have been OK for controlling brew temperature, it could never be used for steam. So instead, I bought a Mypin TA4 SNR (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281496065597?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT). This 240V PID uses the same size square cut-out as the Rex, has the same size fascia escutcheon, but at just 85mm deep is some 25mm shorter than the Rex. It also has an alarm output so, in conjunction with an SSR type 40AA, can be used to control steam temperature.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and best regards,

Tony.


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## SmnByt (Feb 23, 2015)

teejay41 said:


> Hi Pompeyexile.
> 
> I recently bought a Rex PID and while it was OK, it didn't match its eBay description insofar as it had no alarm output, So while it would have been OK for controlling brew temperature, it could never be used for steam. So instead, I bought a Mypin TA4 SNR (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281496065597?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT). This 240V PID uses the same size square cut-out as the Rex, has the same size fascia escutcheon, but at just 85mm deep is some 25mm shorter than the Rex. It also has an alarm output so, in conjunction with an SSR type 40AA, can be used to control steam temperature.
> 
> ...


Do you mean pins 6 &7 for the steam on the Rex, which eBay seller was this? I had the same problem, a replacement with the required pins should be delivered today, in theory...


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I honestly can't believe they would produce a different REX without AL1 outputs - the screw terminal pins may be missing, but I'd guess the circuit board and chips etc. will still deliver AL1 output on pins 6 and 7.


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## teejay41 (Mar 9, 2015)

SmnByt said:


> Do you mean pins 6 &7 for the steam on the Rex, which eBay seller was this? I had the same problem, a replacement with the required pins should be delivered today, in theory...


Yes, pins 6 and 7 were not there - just empty spaces. I actually bought two Rex PIDs; the first from bg27cyf who apologised for the description non-conformance and offered a partial refund and I to keep the goods (including SSR 40DA and Z-type thermocouple) which I accepted. The second was from ellieshang and was identical in every detail including packaging, paperwork and lack of pins 6 and 7. I blew my top at them and ellieshang gave me a full refund, and once again, I could keep the items. In exchange, I gave ellieshang 'fair play' feedback. I then bought the Mypid (on its own without SSR etc.). In fairness to both sellers, both of whom appear to use the same UK distributor, they were unaware of the absence of the alarm output.

Hope you have better luck with your Rex.

Tony.


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## teejay41 (Mar 9, 2015)

NJD1977 said:


> I honestly can't believe they would produce a different REX without AL1 outputs - the screw terminal pins may be missing, but I'd guess the circuit board and chips etc. will still deliver AL1 output on pins 6 and 7.


My guess, based on similar situations with other electronic products, is that the pcb will be the same but not fully populated. I would think that the components relating to the alarm output won't be fitted, for cost reasons. I've not opened up a Rex PID to check, but in any case, I don't have an alarm-output version for comparison.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Thanks Tony but now the one has been paid for and is on its way I'll wait but I'll keep the Mypin in mind should the one coming be duff. I contacted the seller and they were very helpful and friendly and as I said put me straight as to the voltage. I did suggest that they may change the description on Ebay to say 85 to 265 volts to avoid idiots like me (who obviously don't fully read the spec before ordering) sending pointless emails to them.

Thanks again.

PE


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## SmnByt (Feb 23, 2015)

teejay41 said:


> Yes, pins 6 and 7 were not there - just empty spaces. I actually bought two Rex PIDs; the first from bg27cyf who apologised for the description non-conformance and offered a partial refund and I to keep the goods (including SSR 40DA and Z-type thermocouple) which I accepted. The second was from ellieshang and was identical in every detail including packaging, paperwork and lack of pins 6 and 7. I blew my top at them and ellieshang gave me a full refund, and once again, I could keep the items. In exchange, I gave ellieshang 'fair play' feedback. I then bought the Mypid (on its own without SSR etc.). In fairness to both sellers, both of whom appear to use the same UK distributor, they were unaware of the absence of the alarm output.
> 
> Hope you have better luck with your Rex.
> 
> Tony.


It arrived today and, Yes you've guessed it, Pins 6 & 7 are missing on this unit as well........


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Looks like you'll have to order a relay output one and mod it to remove the relay. Let me know if you need the link to the seller I used.


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## SmnByt (Feb 23, 2015)

NJD1977 said:


> Looks like you'll have to order a relay output one and mod it to remove the relay. Let me know if you need the link to the seller I used.


I've sent a message to the seller explaining that it is useless to me without pins 6 & 7 and if they cant supply a unit with the correct configuration I want a refund.

A link to your seller would be a great help


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

PID arrived today looks fine exactly the same as the one that's dead. Just waiting for the relay to arrive to replace the funny butchered plug thingy and then I'm back in business......hopefully! I'm going to order some beans from Rave today so they will be here ready for me to get back on the horse.......providing the horse isn't ready for the knackers yard i.e. I can fix it.


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## SmnByt (Feb 23, 2015)

Pompeyexile said:


> PID arrived today looks fine exactly the same as the one that's dead. Just waiting for the relay to arrive to replace the funny butchered plug thingy and then I'm back in business......hopefully! I'm going to order some beans from Rave today so they will be here ready for me to get back on the horse.......providing the horse isn't ready for the knackers yard i.e. I can fix it.


Have faith fella


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

You may have read on another thread that I call my 'F it I've had enough' moment thread (actually called 'Goodbye Gaggia') where I was going to give up the ghost and the Gaggia was gone, never to darken my doorstep again. Why? Because after eventually receiving my new PID and relay and fitting them, unbeknownst to me I made a wrong connection and when I flicked the on switch, blew the new PID and killed it stone dead.

So another PID has been ordered and when I get it, before running any live current through it, I'll post a copy of my schematic and hope someone on here can let me know if I've got it right.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Thought I'd post a copy of the schematic wiring setup I intend to implement once my new PID arrives. Its based on the one NJD1977 kindly pointed me towards. I'm doing it now partly because of having to replace the Heath Robinson botched up plug thingy put in place of the SSR 40 DA relay with a new relay, and the fact I blew up the other new PID I got by connecting up a wire wrong. So I'd like to get the thumbs up from you before doing any irreparable damage.


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## Gthe1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Hi Pompyexile, you're not ex RN are you? I feel for you, I really do because I think we are very alike! But as there's nowt on telly, I've read your thread from start to finish and am awaiting the next instalment. I know I shouldn't but you've got me in stitches ....... Best half hours entertainment of the night - you couldn't make this stuff up. But perhaps I'm entertained because we are so alike.

I'm an absolute rookie, and this (you) could be me easily. I want you (seriously) to bring home the bacon here - then I will know you are not me!

As a rookie, I joined here for some advice. Can I cross you off my list? If you abandon - can I have first dibs on your grinder ?

Sorry - seriously please don't give up, I'm rooting for a success here.

Best regards

Geoff

P.S. Can you fit the replacement on Tuesday (whilst standing on rubber mat) coz there's nowt on the box on Tuesdays.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Well Gthe1 nice to know that if I can bring a little joy in to people's lives, then I know my time on this planet hasn't been wasted.....Hah!

No I was never in the RN just born in Pompey and where I lived for the first 19 years of my life until moving on due to work, but I still have family down there though.

Yes I can be a bit of a Frank Spencer at times but like our beret wearing friend, I like to give things a go usually to save a few bob but as you can see, that doesn't always work out. Thanks for the rubber mat advice but I've already asked my neighbour if I can borrow his scuba suit.

As for advice...cross me off your list? I think my advice would give anyone reading it invaluable service, in that they should then totally ignore it. That way they won't go far wrong.

Ah, you mentioning having first dibs on the grinder has reminded me....note to self.....quickly re-write will to state that in the case of my untimely demise due to an AC/DC overload from fiddling with my PID. All coffee equipment to be left to Coffee Forums UK to dispose of as they see fit.


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## Gthe1 (Apr 28, 2015)

Hi Pompeyexile,

How goes the battle. Very impressed with your circuit diagram - real neat. Be great to hear how it's going. I remember when I was doing my masters degree and just about bottom of the class at the tender age of 42 (then) - someone close to me gave me a banner to put above my desk "All that is worthy of attainment is born out of struggle" - still look up at it when things aint going as planned - never took it down. So come on let's get this steamer cookin!

Best regards

Geoff


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## El carajillo (Mar 16, 2013)

Pompeyexile said:


> Well Gthe1 nice to know that if I can bring a little joy in to people's lives, then I know my time on this planet hasn't been wasted.....Hah!
> 
> No I was never in the RN just born in Pompey and where I lived for the first 19 years of my life until moving on due to work, but I still have family down there though.
> 
> ...


There you go again Moriarty with those negative waves, think positive, take the rays drink the wine. THEN GO AND MEND THAT COFFEE MACHINE


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

What can I say? I'm touched......

Still waiting for the second PID to arrive (Chinese New Year holding it up apparantly) but I've gone out and got some new wire, connectors and plastic cable ties ready and waiting to put it all together nice and neat like (I do like things to be tidy) and then I'll be back on here no doubt asking for more advice. Just hope my wiring looks right. As I said I don't want to fick the switch and end up with a Jackson 5 hair dooo.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Chinese new year was in Feb!!


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Well they must have had one hell of a celebration and were still trying to recover. To be honest there was a bit of artistic license on my part as they said 'holiday' and the Chinese New Year was the only Chinese holiday I know. But good news because the PID has arrived....Hoozah!

So tomorrow once I get home I'll try again and if at about 8:30pm you notice your lights dim and flicker for a brief moment, I just might have connected something up wrong.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

OK so I wired everything up and checked the connections at least 4 times. According to the schematic everything was going where it should, so I switched it on.......Nothing. Yes the power switch lit up as did the brew switch but no sign of life in either of the relays or the PID. Well at least this one didn't go bang like the last one.

My PID is called a "New 2006 power" but the detailed instructions I have for connecting a PID to the Gaggia, used a PID called a RexC100 but it has the same terminals. So the only thing I could think of was what blew my PID up the last time, the rogue wire, the one I just didn't have a clue where it went; that is the wire coming from terminal 6 of the PID.

On the REX C100 instructions the wire coming from PID terminal 6 goes to the bottom terminal of the on off switch of the Gaggia, whereas on the schematic from my New 2006 Power PID, the wire from Terminal 6 goes to terminal +3 on the SSR DA relay. Using a Piggyback spade connecter I had it on the bottom terminal of the on off switch. Oh well in for a penny, so I removed it from the on off switch and out of interest powered her back up and..........

"IT'S ALIVE!

I then connected the now loose wire to terminal +3 of the relay and again it all lit up.

OK, so I had Electrickery running through it, but no sparks no bangs and no smoke. By Jove I think I've cracked it!

Now for the settings....Inty, Outy, Celsius, Temp range etc etc not easy but again with a little help from tinterweb it was done. Fill her up with some Adam's Ale and wait.....and wait.....and wait...yawn! Not a sausage. Whilst I set the temp to 95 degrees, the thermocouple reading stayed at a steadfast 24 degrees. The heating elements were not being turned on. So I flicked the steam switch to see if that had any effect and sure enough the temp started to rise and rise and rise so I quickly flicked it off.

So I thought OK, maybe I had the PID settings wrong, so I connected up the original PID just to check the settings as I never tampered with them, and wrote them down. I then coupled up the new PID again and input the copied settings accordingly. Still it wouldn't play ball. It stayed as static as a caravan with no wheels.

Well here I am back to square one, back to the situation that got me into this mess in the first place. A wire that is possibly in the wrong place stopping the heating elements from switching on and off, but where that place is I haven't a ruddy clue.

With the original PID red and green lit numbers would dance up and down, the brew switch light would flicker and relay lights would blink; it was like a veritable mini Blackpool sitting on my counter top. But now it's about as luminescent and exciting as a window painted black, covered in blackout curtains during the chuffin blitz.

Help!


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Is the little red light on the DA SSR lighting up when the machine is switched on? If it isn't, no power will be going to your heating elements. Check that first and work by process of elimination.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

No it's not.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Try swapping 4 and 5 outputs around first. Mine would only work one way around and the way shown in the original wiring diagrams didn't work for mine.

Next to try if that doesn't work is to see if your PID is set to output voltage only when it REACHES its setpoint rather than UNTIL it reaches its setpoint.

If your SSR isnt firing then your boiler will not get a supply and nothing will heat up.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Tried swapping the PID 4 & 5 wires at the PID end and made no difference. Now I haven't a Scooby what you mean by seeing if my PID is set to output voltage only when it REACHES its setpoint rather than UNTIL it reaches its setpoint. So I've attached the settings for the PID and as I said, I got these from the original PID (not the one I blew up) and as I hadn't at that time any idea how to change those I didn't touch them and they worked fine. It was just the detached terminal and wayward wire that stopped it from working.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

When you switch it on, is the AL1 output light lit on the front of the PID?

Also what are your AH1 and AL1 settings?

Also are you still using the old K type thermocouple? Or a PT-100 RTD?


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

A1 and A2 are not lit and the AT and Out are flashing.

The AH1 setting is 0145 and the AL1 0146 and the same for AH2 and AL2

K type thermocouple and the two new PIDS I have received have each had a new type K thermocouple with them.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Ah, just found the manual for a New 2006 and the pin outs are different from the Rex. 3, 4 and 5 are the AL1 outputs and 6 and 7 are the PID outputs.

So I think your wiring is wrong. The DA SSR should be coming off pins 6 &7 and the AA SSR should be coming off 4 & 5.

That's assuming you've got a New 2006 PID rather than a Rex c-100? I got confused along the way and thought you had ordered a Rex as the replacement?


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

No had to get the New 2006 Power because of its size and the fact the housing was cut to take it. I will rush and re-wire per your instructions.......Wish me luck!


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Might be best to summarise what changes you have made to your wiring since your last diagram before doing that!


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

Slightly concerned you might have fried the DA SSR when you ran 220v through it by flicking the steam switch on earlier. Report back after the rewire.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

OK I've made the changes now the AL1 and AL2 lights are on. However nothing is moving temp wise and you are right the SSR 40 AA is fried I notice it blink earlier when I flicked on the steam switch. I'll order a new one at only £3.49 incl postage, but again because I just can't find one here for sale in the UK only DA it's a buy now from fleabay, so I'll have to wait another week and a half for it to arrive from Shanghai.

Queue Rosemary Cluney and Bing singing..."I'd like to get you on a slow boat to China"

Thanks again for your help (and patience) I'll let you know when I'm back fiddling.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

It was the DA SSR I was bothered about. It would be very hard to fry an AA.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Luckily before pressing the button on Ebay I found one on Amazon of all places in the UK delivered tomorrow. A tad dearer (3 times) but hey I'm thinking of the planet and my carbon footprint.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Please don't tell me you think I could have fried the DA relay too?

I'm starting to think I must have been a right barsteward in a previous life.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

The AA SSR should be fine, its hard to fry it because it takes 240v at all inputs. The DA however only takes 12v at the inputs and I think you may have fed it 240v.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

OK so I've got a DA relay coming Between now and Wednesday at just over £4.

Hit the pause button.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I didn't necessarily say it was fried, just that it could be. It would be good to update your wiring diagram to show your current set up before you wire anything new back in.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

I've updated my wiring diagram and kept a copy of the old one just in case. But as none of the relays are showing any signs of life it can't hurt replacing them after all they don't cost a fortune.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

While I'm at it, my existing K thermocouple connections have been butchered and are rather flimsy. I've been reading that the PT100 thermocouple is more accurate than the K one. Now even though I have two brand new K thermocouples that came with the new PIDS I bought whose connections are far more robust, is it worth my while spending the extra £17 I've seen one for on Ebay on a PT100. Will it make much difference?


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I've never used a K type, but if you want a PT100 MrShades on this forum has some for £15 posted I think. All set up with the correct screw thread to go straight into the boiler wall.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Hmmm... I think it's Mr Shades selling his on Ebay too as the sellers name is Shadenville 576, either that or it's a very big coincidence. If changing it is going to make a difference over the K type I'll PM him. I know it's only two quid difference but after all as they say "Look after the pennies and the pounds......


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

PM'd Mr S and I have a PT100 winging its way to me.

Now then, so the relays have arrived I've wired them up as suggested but still the top number i.e. the boiler temp is staying static which means the heating elements are not being turned on. Also again there are no lights on any of the relays and I've not switched on the steam switch, so nothing as far as I can tell has gone phut!. I've PM'd NJ1977 in the hope he can give me a way forward.


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## Pompeyexile (Dec 2, 2013)

Neil,

The schematic is the only thing I can see from the PID instructions and the labels on the PID too that show what goes from what pins.


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## NJD1977 (Dec 16, 2014)

I think you'll have to systematically work back to the original wiring diagram here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YKahCYmW8_O8aR2HE877M7nzGrYzTuF3Lse6WfiQsog/edit

and for your PID the terminals need adjusting as follows:

REX Terminal 4 = NEW PID2006 Terminal 6

REX Terminal 5 = NEW PID2006 Terminal 7

REX Terminal 6 = NEW PID2006 Terminal 4

REX Terminal 7 = NEW PID2006 Terminal 5

There's no reason why it wouldn't work if you wire it up as per the original wiring diagram with those pin alterations.


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