# Advice/tips needed on what machine to buy



## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

Having purchased a cracking Rancilio Rocky Doserless grinder from another forum member (thanks Mike mc), I am now on the search for a machine to partner it. I've read so many good things about the Gaggia Classic and the Rancilio Silvia, but are there any other machines out there I should consider? There is one restriction though, the wall cabinets in my kitchen are mounted really low and the Gaggia will only just squeeze under them (max height available 40cm - Gaggia is 38cm I believe?). Whereas the Rancilio is only 34cm high so would fit nicely, but at a cost of course given it's more than twice the price of the Gaggia (unless I'm lucky enough to find a used one - which is a pretty rare thing from what I've seen).

So there's my dilemma. Any advice would be appreciated on any other machines to consider - budget would stretch to £300 for the right machine.


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## Thecatlinux (Mar 10, 2014)

Keep an eye on the for sales section, I'm sure what you're looking for will soon pop up.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

£300 budget will get you a very decent Classic with plenty of spare cash left over. Silvias are a very worthwhile bet second hand and well within your budget. Be patient, keep an eye on the for sale thread. Also consider putting up a 'wanted' thread too.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Gonna be pulling your machine out to top up water, or pulling the tank out...

Plus no warming cups on top!


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> Gonna be pulling your machine out to top up water, or pulling the tank out...
> 
> Plus no warming cups on top!


I'm used to that having had a Gaggia Cubika! And I've never been able to warm the cups on top either - had to use hot water instead









So I assume from the other comments that it's Gaggia or Rancilio and nothing else?


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

I have the classic, if i had £300 i would consider saving a bit more and upgrading to a dual boiler or HX machine, the classic is ok for one or two cups, but anything else is hard work and even with the steam arm upgrade its rubbish for milk.


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

froggystyle said:


> I have the classic, if i had £300 i would consider saving a bit more and upgrading to a dual boiler or HX machine, the classic is ok for one or two cups, but anything else is hard work and even with the steam arm upgrade its rubbish for milk.


Good advice but used HX machines around £300 are as rare as hens' teeth.


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

froggystyle said:


> I have the classic, if i had £300 i would consider saving a bit more and upgrading to a dual boiler or HX machine, the classic is ok for one or two cups, but anything else is hard work and even with the steam arm upgrade its rubbish for milk.


That's surprising and at the same time disappointing news. I was under the impression the steam arm upgrade was a must for the Gaggia and that it would then produce really good milk foam. As my wife and I are regular latte drinkers a good "steamer" is very important. Sounds like I will have to increase the budget, and re-build my kitchen as I bet the dual-boiler/HX machines won't fit under the cupboards! lol

Thanks for your tips


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

The Systemic Kid said:


> Good advice but used HX machines around £300 are as rare as hens' teeth.


Indeed, thats why i said save more dosh...


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

dirtyharry said:


> That's surprising and at the same time disappointing news. I was under the impression the steam arm upgrade was a must for the Gaggia and that it would then produce really good milk foam. As my wife and I are regular latte drinkers a good "steamer" is very important. Sounds like I will have to increase the budget, and re-build my kitchen as I bet the dual-boiler/HX machines won't fit under the cupboards! lol
> 
> Thanks for your tips


Oh it does improve the milk, but you still run out quickly!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

To help quantify "rubbish " in a bit more detail

With the silvia arm a classic is capable of making great microfoam with some practice .

There are plenty of examples of great latter art form classIc owners in the free pour Friday threads

It's just not very quick at doing multiple drink or larger qtys of milk due to it's smaller boiler

A decent HX machine will have a bigger boiler , steam larger qtys of milk more quickly , enable you to pull shots and steam at same time , and will be more temp stable than a single boiler unit like a gaggia

The cost difference of a Hx ( heat exchanger ) machine to a gaggia used or new reflects the difference though


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Yeah, what boots said.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> Yeah, what boots said.










................


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

Simonelli Oscar isn't too tall but they're not that common second hand


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## The Systemic Kid (Nov 23, 2012)

dirtyharry said:


> That's surprising and at the same time disappointing news. I was under the impression the steam arm upgrade was a must for the Gaggia and that it would then produce really good milk foam. As my wife and I are regular latte drinkers a good "steamer" is very important. Sounds like I will have to increase the budget, and re-build my kitchen as I bet the dual-boiler/HX machines won't fit under the cupboards! lol
> 
> Thanks for your tips


If you drink a lot of milk based coffee, a HX machine is worth considering as you don't have to wait for the machine to heat up in order to steam milk - you make your espresso and go straight to steaming. Think the cheapest HX machine on the market at the moment is a Nuova Simonelli Oscar which can be bought for £500.00. There aren't any UK based dealerships but several members have used the Italian based supplier (Elektros) and reported excellent service. The Oscar is a well respected piece of kit.


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I got mine for 250 second hand


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I've managed to get pretty decent milk from my PIDded Classic with the Silvia wand upgrade. Very worthwhile. Still haven't managed to get close to latte art though, but that's more likely the n00b factor rather than the milk. I have seen good latte art that is alleged to be from a Classic so I'm sure it's possible. I'm only ever making 2 cups at a time so I don't really have a problem with the Classic's capacity for making coffee - 2 at a time is enough. And I agree about the cup warming facility - not worth worrying about. I normally run some hot water through the group/PF into a shot glass, then into the cups.

It does seem that you get a good "bang for your buck" with the Classic, especially when modded; the Silvia seems to be more expensive but not twice as good, and then the jump seems to be quite big. Hence I will probably have plenty of time to learn more while I save up. Or I might just stick with the little Gaggia. Ideally I'd like one of those lovely classic metal machines for looks, but it's a significant change in budget from Classic to anything worth upgrading to seemingly.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

How much is an Auber PID kit though for temp and steam?


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

I like the look of the chrome machines too (however, pricey and too big anyway) but anything "retro looking" will get the thumbs up from the missus.

Unfortunately, the Oscar won't fit under the cupboards though









Thanks for all your comments guys - you've given me a lot to think about!


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

dirtyharry said:


> I like the look of the chrome machines too (however, pricey and too big anyway) but anything "retro looking" will get the thumbs up from the missus.
> 
> Unfortunately, the Oscar won't fit under the cupboards though
> 
> ...


Is the Oscar is too tall then that's possibly going to rule out quite a lot of machines ....


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

I thought Oscar was same height if not slightly smaller than the classic


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> How much is an Auber PID kit though for temp and steam?


150 USD.

I bought my Classic already modded with PID, wand, mesh screen and OPV adjusted, including naked PF and VST basket from another forum member for considerably less than the price of a new Classic so it was a no-brainer and should see me right until I win the lottery.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

So you could easily spend £300 getting up to your spec....


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

froggystyle said:


> So you could easily spend £300 getting up to your spec....


If you included the price of a used Classic maybe. I'd have thought the cost of the mods would be less than £200.

It would still be cheaper than a new Oscar at £570. Obviously the Oscar is then a) new and b) better than a modded Classic though. If Jeebsy got a used Oscar for £250 that would be the thing to do, if only the OP's cupboards were half an inch higher! Factor in the cost of a kitchen refit and you could justify anything LOL!!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

That's my point, spending £300 on something that you may upgrade in a year doesn't make sense to me.

Save more now, your gonna spend it later anyway, and your not going to get back £300 for the classic when you sell it.


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Having gone down the same road as many on here an started with a Baby Classic then a Silva before eventually getting a second hand HX. both the machines mentioned are not very good at many milk based drinks, for just espresso they are good, but for more than on or two decent milk based coffees they are woefully inadequate, you will get very disappointed with having to wait between each shot and then the recovery time for the steam. there are quite a few good threads and vids on the time it takes make 4 lattes on different types of machine. but with the baby it was around 24mins!! i did it a few times when friends came over and it was very frustrating as one had finished before i had even made the last.

if you can wait, save as much as you can and find a good second hand HX over the others for what you need as you will probably end up there any way


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

From what I've read, the Oscar is 40cm high and the Classic is 38cm and as mentioned my cupboard is 40cm. So the Oscar is a no-go and the Classic is going to be very close to the underside of the cupboard, but it will still fit.

We don't drink espressos, only milk-based coffees, and having spent a half-day on a barista training course, which included learning the basics of latte art, I am very keen to improve on my skills, which are sadly lacking! Hence the importance of an effective steam wand on whatever machine I buy.

Going on what you guys have said, I think the decision is made to up the budget and go for an HX machine - just need to check the dimensions of the ones on the market to make sure one will fit!


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Your not from Northampton so maybe a trip to BB would help?

Or contact Coffeebean on here and see what he can do!


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## dirtyharry (Jul 14, 2014)

Yep, BB are in Wellingborough which is only 30-40 mins away. And they were recommended by the who ran the training course I was on last week.


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Dont discount other suppliers though...


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## Charliej (Feb 25, 2012)

A used Classic from a forum member who is upgrading will usually sell for around £100 and is a great machine to get you started, and when upgrade time comes along you'll get most if not all of your money back on it if you look after it properly. I owned a Classic for 7 years and managed to make consistently good shots and milk with it, of course if you drink your milk based drinks from a bucket then a Classic will struggle to do 2 drinks at once, but if you make say 5-6 oz flat whites then you should easily be able to manage 3 drinks worth of milk and great micro foam IF your technique is right. It's worth noting here that very few machines will compensate for lack of skill or technique to make decent properly textured milk, more often than not when it comes to texturing milk the faults lie with the operator rather than the machine, every aspect of making espresso and textured milk requires practice and consistency, which comes with time and requires a degree of patience.


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

Charliej said:


> A used Classic from a forum member who is upgrading will usually sell for around £100 and is a great machine to get you started, and when upgrade time comes along you'll get most if not all of your money back on it if you look after it properly. I owned a Classic for 7 years and managed to make consistently good shots and milk with it, of course if you drink your milk based drinks from a bucket then a Classic will struggle to do 2 drinks at once, but if you make say 5-6 oz flat whites then you should easily be able to manage 3 drinks worth of milk and great micro foam IF your technique is right. It's worth noting here that very few machines will compensate for lack of skill or technique to make decent properly textured milk, more often than not when it comes to texturing milk the faults lie with the operator rather than the machine, every aspect of making espresso and textured milk requires practice and consistency, which comes with time and requires a degree of patience.


not my findings as i will admit i am probably no where near as talented as many on here, = http://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/videos-home/ask-the-experts/how-much-time-to-make-4-lattes


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