# Sage DB- Some advice please



## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

Hi everyone!

Having owned my Sage DB for almost 3 months now, I think I am getting to grips with it fairly well. I was originally using a Mazzer Mini as my main grinder but have paired it with a Major and the results are definitely better- more flavour notes coming through and a generally smoother mouthfeel.

My question is more to do with roast type of the beans I use- up till now I have used predominantly light roasted beans from various local speciality roasters in the Bristol/ Bath area. From reading previous reviews/ posts about the DB it seems that it might accentuate bright/ acidic flavours, so I was wondering how the provenance of the coffee or the roast profile will make a difference to this. I can certainly confirm that some of the African beans I have been using (Ethiopian/ Burundi/ Rwandan) have come through as very bright, almost too much so sometimes. I realise to answer this question accurately you will need to have an idea of my current recipe, so at the moment (with the sort of beans mentioned above) I am dosing 20g, 1:2 ratio in about 27s. Having experimented with various ratios and times this seems to be about the best in terms of flavour, obviously I will make slight tweaks dependent on the bean, for example I had a Kenyan a while back that seemed to taste better when on the basis of time alone it should have been somewhat over extracted.

If anyone has any experience of using the Db with medium/ darker roasts it would be great to hear from you, as I still feel like I have a lot to learn! many thanks in advance.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

You are asking for opinion on taste so will receive personal answers of course! I only drink darker stuff and have a DB. For me, I usually dose at 18 grams and pull about 30 to 32 over about 30 seconds, but am not really fussed if thats 27 or 35!


----------



## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

Many thanks, am definitely planning on trying some darker stuff- have just got hold of the Coffee Compass discount code. I realise taste is on the palate of the beholder, so to speak, but I am starting to wonder whether for espresso I might actually prefer a darker roast. I really liked Union's decaf blend which is quite a bit darker than I'm used to.


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

Dumnorix said:


> Many thanks, am definitely planning on trying some darker stuff- have just got hold of the Coffee Compass discount code. I realise taste is on the palate of the beholder, so to speak, but I am starting to wonder whether for espresso I might actually prefer a darker roast. I really liked Union's decaf blend which is quite a bit darker than I'm used to.


Try a kilo of the Cc Mystery 8 @ £13 plus postage.....it is a really good bean and might just be up your street (hopefully)


----------



## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

Many thanks, will give it a go.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

There is so much scope for variation on a DB I would have thought that it would be hard to say that it tends to accentuate anything. It could depend on how the machine is set up. Some for instance extend infusion time to the entire shot and use pump power settings to obtain a particular brew pressure. I'd guess some like me don't use the default infusion time or the default temperature.

Personally if I found a bean too bright, assuming that I would see that as acidity I would try over extracting. I might also try the usual range of ratio's but with extended times. Generally I aim to match the tasting notes associated with the bean and then tune to "balance" those to suite me. I've not been using a DB for long and am already using basket sizes other than the ones that come with the machine. Currently that has extended the time to me getting the drink I want rather a lot and is still ongoing.

I suspect you may be too locked into 1:2 and 30 sec. It's an odd area. Many machines do not have the same infusion stage as Sage have. It will change extraction characteristics. I've also used another dual boiler machine with a simple mechanical thermostat and no PID. That one produced a very dark flow initially during extraction - so different yet again. I've not used an HX machine but those would also probably differ yet again. IMHO these factors mean that the 1:2 and 30 sec is very likely to need varying according to the machine that is being used, the bean and more importantly the taste the drinker wants.

John

-


----------



## fluffles (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm very skeptical that a machine with such an ability to tweak every parameter would be suited to one roast style over another. Perhaps that can be true of grinders, but the Sage should be able to make tasty coffee with any roast preference you may have


----------



## urbanbumpkin (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the Sage DB will be able to good job with all roast levels. That would be down to your own personal preference.

Try SQM Red Brick or Sweetshop.


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

fluffles said:


> I'm very skeptical that a machine with such an ability to tweak every parameter would be suited to one roast style over another. Perhaps that can be true of grinders, but the Sage should be able to make tasty coffee with any roast preference you may have


People could say that so many things can be changed that it becomes a bit of a problem finding out what to do. I'm trying to keep it simple. All I have changed is the infusion period to 12 sec and increased the brew temperature to 66C. 12 sec due to previous use of a BE. I'm usually chasing strength and found that some output during infusion was beneficial. The standard 7 sec often didn't do that. A higher brew temperature seems to suite my favourite bean.







When I'm happy with that one I hope other beans I use will just need a change of grind and maybe basket size. The comes ratios to suite.

John

-


----------



## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The changes we can make on the DB will impact on every type of bean I suspect. I remember when I first did the mods in posts 13 onwards

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?34666-Sage-DB-is-this-acceptable/page2&highlight=sage

have a skim through, it is easy to do. The first time I did this I was getting the most intense fruit from a bean that shouldn't have done that. You cal alter the settings that GaryD suggests to anything you like, and reverse them just as easily


----------



## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

I had a stewed coffee taste when I tried the idea at around 6 bar brew pressure. It was a longish shot time to get circa 1 to 2. One option would have been to coarsen the grind to bring that down but I suspect that would defeat the objective. My Barista Express will do the same thing but the pump pressure can't be changed and it's manual shots used like that. I see this area as something to try now and again or stick with it and try to sort it out but there are a lot of combinations.







I find weight, ratios and grind size enough really.

:yuk:I'm very liberal about ratios. I work on the basis that commercial basket and shot sizes may be ok. I may use 1 to 2 but commercially speaking a single is 7g with a shot of 30g, a double 14g shot 60g. Light shot baskets are 6 and 12, ratio about 5 to 1. I don't see any problems with trying the entire range if needed or varying the 30 sec. On the BE I found 1 to 4 could be good on some beans. Still playing with the DB but > 1 to 2 is looking favourite. The BE seems to be volume based so time varied. I'm wondering about switching the DB to that. It's not by any means precise on the BE and probably not on the DB either.

John

-


----------



## Bolta (May 11, 2014)

If you brew at 66°C then I would expect a sour taste, try 94°C. With light roasts I use very long PI up to 30 sec.


----------



## Dumnorix (Dec 29, 2017)

ajohn said:


> People could say that so many things can be changed that it becomes a bit of a problem finding out what to do. I'm trying to keep it simple. All I have changed is the infusion period to 12 sec and increased the brew temperature to 66C. 12 sec due to previous use of a BE. I'm usually chasing strength and found that some output during infusion was beneficial. The standard 7 sec often didn't do that. A higher brew temperature seems to suite my favourite bean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your changes to the preinfusion time are interesting to note, as I previously had a BE as well. I think it is set at 8 at the moment so will up it to 12s and see what happens. I also take your point about being more flexible with ratios.


----------

