# Automatic Tamping ? Is this worth the extra cost / complexity ?



## Beardie (May 30, 2021)

Am trying to decide on a machine and the automatic tamping is something I can't decide on.

It seems to offer convenience, but I am concerned its added complexity that may eventually go wrong and seems a reasonably easy task to do manually.

Does the auto tamping reduce the amount of coffee grounds that escape and therefore reduce the mess / cleaning necessary

I am convinced I need the automatic milk wand if that is any type of indicator, having used one with a Sage Nespresso machine

Thanks


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

@Beardie learn your craft! They are a joke matey.....might help you for a very short period of time but not worth including in selection a machine


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## DavecUK (Aug 6, 2013)

@Beardie I think there are far more important features, that automatic tamping. I think it's very telling that it's not offered on high end kit. If it's something you decide you need in the future, you can always by a tamping machine., like a Puqpress......


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## GrahamSPhillips (Jan 29, 2021)

Go for a Breville/Sage dual boiler AND invest what you save vs the Oracle in a Niche grinder and you'll never look back !


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

To put it simply, no automatic tamping is not necessary and it is an easy task. I'd regard it more hindrance than help. A built in grinder is not good value either.


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## woodbar (Aug 28, 2020)

Well, I can only say that I find my Oracle quite acceptable - it is convenient and very clean to have the coffee ground and then tamped into the filter for you, needing just the occasional removal of a few stray grounds from the top edge. No, it does not make exceptional coffee, but it is pretty good and of course quite easy to live with. It also has the auto steam / milk wand you require which works well (although I rarely use mine!)

To put this in perspective - I have had various "Bean to Cup" machines over many years from the likes of Gaggia and De'Longhi etc. but none of them were capable of proper espresso but as I generally like a longer drink, maybe half way to an Americano, they have sufficed.

However, last year I started enjoying espressos so I decided to look for something suitable and the Oracle seemed to fit the bill with the semi-auto functions and so far I am very pleased with it. Yes, it has its' faults - the auto volume setting is not reliable so I either weigh the output or judge the output according to the drink I am making etc.

I just did not have the space for, or want, a separate grinder, coffee machine, tamper + mat, scales etc. ect.!

Just depends what is more important to you, a one stop item that does it all reasonably well, or a hobby involving half a worktop full of gear that has the capability to make exceptional coffee when you get everything right and the wind is blowing from the east - but it will probably need tweaking again tomorrow because the ambient temperature and humidity has increased and the beans are a day older.


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

woodbar said:


> Just depends what is more important to you, a one stop item that does it all reasonably well, or a hobby involving half a worktop full of gear that has the capability to make exceptional coffee when you get everything right and the wind is blowing from the east - but it will probably need tweaking again tomorrow because the ambient temperature and humidity has increased and the beans are a day older.


 You'll find the better the equipment the easier it is to get good results so the "wind blowing to the east stuff" is more related to inconsistent grinders. And you don't really need to alter the grind more or less frequently with different grinders.


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## Stevebee (Jul 21, 2015)

I, like most on here have gone way down the rabbit hole, but I understand where the op is coming from. Stick with the Oracle as once you have it dialled in can produce nice espresso, and the grind adjustments needed are minimal. If you keep to the same roaster/roast level it can be set and forget. With regards to the wind, just don't look out the window - sometimes ignorance is bliss 😁


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## Rob1 (Apr 9, 2015)

Stevebee said:


> I, like most on here have gone way down the rabbit hole, but I understand where the op is coming from. Stick with the Oracle as once you have it dialled in can produce nice espresso, and the grind adjustments needed are minimal. If you keep to the same roaster/roast level it can be set and forget. With regards to the wind, just don't look out the window - sometimes ignorance is bliss 😁


 They haven't bought a machine yet...


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

I'll go against the grain here and say I bought a PuqPress and love it.

It's simpler, easier and tamps at 20kg every single time and evenly (I tested this using a mini level). For me, it took one variable out of the equation and my expresso quest includes repeatability so this takes me a step closer.

Full respect to everyone who thinks they are overkill, each to their own and all that.

If in doubt, do what I did and buy a used PuqPress from ebay or similar. If you are patient you'll pick one up for a great price and will be able to sell it for what you bought it for, if you decided they are not for you. That way you literally have nothing to lose and you get to decide based on your own experience, which is the best judge and jury of them all.


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## Roko (Apr 23, 2021)

tompoland said:


> I'll go against the grain here and say I bought a PuqPress and love it.
> 
> It's simpler, easier and tamps at 20kg every single time and evenly (I tested this using a mini level). For me, it took one variable out of the equation and my expresso quest includes repeatability so this takes me a step closer.
> 
> ...


 I would argue that if one has infinite counter space and near-infinite funds, then by all means. And I remember that your beautiful setup required a bit of both, so you are possibly the ideal customer for the PuqPress.

However, repeatability and consistency can be achieved with a self-levelling tamper as well, which costs a fraction of that and takes hardly any space. Not to mention that it looks much better than having yet another appliance (but that's subjective).

As you said, to each their own, but you have a top notch grinder & machine combo, whereas the OP probably would take budget out of either of these two much more important items to fund an automatic tamping device, which in my opinion would be a big no-no.


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## pphaneuf (Apr 20, 2021)

It seems to me that the Oracle is really a super automatic, "bean to cup" machine, rather than a "standard" pump espresso machine? I don't think there's any doubt that a super automatic won't make coffee as good as can be learned to do "by hand", but if someone isn't wanting to learn a new hobby, that seems alright?

In most super automatic, "moving" the puck around (or not doing it!) seems to be the biggest problem, so the Oracle having the human help out for that might well put it at the top of the "bean to cup" pile...

But if the original poster is thinking more of learning how to make espresso, then the other advice here is probably better.

Having good fun here with a Bambino Plus and Smart Grinder Pro combo here, specifically with the plan of seeing if I'm liking this hobby (which I am!), and upgrading later (hence not having got a two-in-one like the Barista Express). If the original poster wants to learn, that seems more the way, although in hindsight, I might have preferred getting a slightly better grinder (maybe a used one)? If the Oracle is being considered, there should be budget for decent kit, I'm guessing!


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## pphaneuf (Apr 20, 2021)

James Hoffmann has a review of it (linking directly to the summary/conclusion here):


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## ajohn (Sep 23, 2017)

Hoffman is positive about it in a pretty clear way really. Hard to argue. With some people the machine means anyone in the house can use it once some one has set it up the usual way. Tamping problems on it when they crop up appear to mean it all needs a decent clean. People can still buy a grinder and do things the other way if they want and need to clean that at times too.

As Hoff says do you want a hobby or just want to make and enjoy drinks. Many people have commented on drink quality from all versions even having used other brands and methods in some cases. It seems other basket weights than come with the machine can be used but they are not made by Sage.

The thing I found odd about the touch is that none of the DB's partly hidden facilities for changing certain things seem to be available but using those does move into the hobby area. Sad that they haven't been included but no mention in the manual.

Also on one touch - maybe not the Oracle a fault locked the entire machine out rather than saying sorry you can't steam milk.  The fault may be self inflicted - hard to know for sure. Cleaning a wand with a temperature sensor in it may need more care than the usual arrangement especially if poked with something or the other. All of there machines that steam milk this way seem from comments to do a good job.

Grinds prep is easy. How does it usually go these days? Weigh your bean, spray with water, shake vigorously, grind them and do what ever to get them into a grinds can. Use some implement to stir them up. Get them into the portafilter and level them. Tamp making sure the tamp stays level. Say 15 hail marries and bow to Mecca*, fits the portafilter and pull a shot. All best done standing on one leg with one hand behind your back*. Then still get crap shots for some time when people start doing it this way. The prep needed and degree can also depend on the grinder that is being used, also the beans.

*  Afraid that shows what I think of what some do all of the time without any variation. It's almost religious as are E61 heads but now it seems solenoids are a better option but must still look very similar.

However I do not know how consistent shot weight wise Oracles are. My hobby is push button coffee and no manual shots at all. It's not easy.


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## 29244 (Feb 8, 2021)

pphaneuf said:


> James Hoffmann has a review of it (linking directly to the summary/conclusion here):


 Looks like a great choice if someone just wants a nice espresso with minimum fuss. Tx for the link.


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