# to rocket or not to rocket thats the question



## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

hello I'm a new member and looking for some guidance

iv got a 200pounds gift voucher for bb and just over 2000 quid in the bank to treat myself to a machine and grinder. my initial thoughts are a rocket r58 paired with a fausto. Sorry about my spelling and grammar I'm dyslexic. Iv been researching for along time and that's the reason my budget just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I'm going to bb on Monday I was just wondering what or if I can do better with my current budget or what other members would do with 2200 quid.

I will be making around 6 to 8 shots a day so its just for home use.

should I hang on a few mouths and save for a pressure profiling machine

thanks david


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

the eternal question......go to BB and have a look around. You are going to have to spend £750 or so on a new grinder, along the lines of an Olympus 75E, leaving you £1450 on a machine

You may have a Porsche, but it does not make you a racing driver.....meaning, that a pressure profiling machine is not going to guarantee you anything. BB have lots of machines of all sorts and prices. Have a look, talk to them and then you will know whether to buy or wait and save! The argument for buying the best machine you can is to stop wanting to upgrade....but upgrading is more an emotional relief than making a better coffee relier......remember, whether you think you can, or whether you think you cannot, you are probably right anyway


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I'd say you should get a fantastic grinder and a good machine.

Your budget will get a top notch machine but you'd be pairing it with a mediocre grinder.

Pressure profiling machine is a good shout, but like I've said, you do need a really good grinder to get the most out of your espresso.


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

iv heard great thinks about the fausto even on the phone for about an hour to one of the guys at bb. I don't want a pp machine I just don't want to regret not getting on in a few years.

so maybe a gitto and a better grinder.

like you say ill speek to the people at bb but id like as much information as possible to take with me to bb.

thanks for the quick response


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## MediumRoastSteam (Jul 7, 2015)

Have you thought about whether you want a dual-boiler, a heat exchanger or a lever machine? I go along with the others: Get the best grinder you can afford, don't overlook them. Without a good grinder, there won't be good espresso. Good decision to go to BB. I've done this myself twice, and don't regret spending a few hours there.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

all I am trying to say, is there is more to life than a Rocket! Grinder wise, I think most people might agree, that the bigger the burr size, the better the range of flavours available. The Fausto is 65 mm. Whilst still probably the most popular size out there, you can do better. Go to BB and talk it through. Research consists of what you read which in turn consists of opinion, and therein lies the problem.


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

iv seen a eureka mythos for sale on the forum and I live close to the person selling it so I'm going to do so research now. I'm not a rocket fan boy I'm just going on what iv read. like I say I'm dyslexic and I find it had to process all the information. but I see what you saying.


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

get that mythos, it is a really good one, then get up to bella barista for your machine


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

that's what I'm thinking but what about this, its just about in my price range

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?31464-Alex-Duetto-IV-Baratza-Forté-BG-AP-A


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

if you can get the duetto for less then do it, the mythos is a much better grinder than the forte, they may be a decent priced r58 coming up soon as well


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

how soon is soon?????


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

The Mythos is an amazing grinder and for that price, won't be wanting to upgrade or even start thinking what you missed out on if you don't.

Took me a while to get to this point of a good machine with a fantastic Grinder.

When I first started I thought the Rockets were the kit to have but speaking to a lot of really knowledgeable guys on here, I was swayed away from them.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

The Mythos for sale will keep you going for years to come. They produce the most wonderful mound of coffee because even though they are flat burrs (75mm) they are mounted at a 45 degree angle, which is why it is so deep. This means that the coffee can only exit the grind chamber in one direction, downwards. With a normal flat burr grinder, the grinds are ejected out of the burrs into the grind chamber and you usually get quite a bit of build up of stale coffee. I am not saying you will get none with a Mythos, but you will not get much. I appreciate you want to do your own research and that is admirable, but, you are not going to get a better grinder, new or second hand for £650......anywhere int eww world.

and for clarity, I own a Mythos and have owned probably 6 before the current one! I have had virtually every grinder going, yet always return


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Can vouch for what dfk41 says as bought one of his Mythos and couldn't be happier and it has totally quashed any upgraditus I may've encountered


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

eureka mythos it is then, ill pm him

thanks for your help.

2 months of research not getting any ware and the with in 10 mins of been on this forum iv made up my mind on a grinder.


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

Size comparison but I'm going to chop the hopper right down or get a small hopper from BB


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

great set up. looks awesome. iv looked at the mini hopper I think it would just fit but its pricy for a plastic hopper. ill have to sleep on it and hope it doesn't get snapped up before the weekend


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## scottgough (Feb 9, 2016)

Back to the original question on this thread, Rocket Machine, I'd have no problem recommending, the R58s a cracker, new or used. Fausto grinder... They're good, but, you can do better, either buy something used (aka the Mythos!) or stretch the budget a little bit and go Compak E8 or E10. That's my view


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Presume you're not planning to single dose? Just in case you are as that would make the Mythos unsuitable (apparently.)

Edited for clarity


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

risky said:


> Presume you're not switching beans often? Just in case you are as that would make the Mythos unsuitable (apparently.)


why?


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## Jason1wood (Jun 1, 2012)

I change beans every week (IMM subs) and doesn't cause a problem at all.


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

dfk41 said:


> why?


Because allegedly you can't single dose them (if that's what the OP was planning to do)


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## risky (May 11, 2015)

Jason1wood said:


> I change beans every week (IMM subs) and doesn't cause a problem at all.


I should have been clearer. Single dosing is apparently not possible?


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## jeebsy (May 5, 2013)

risky said:


> Because allegedly you can't single dose them (if that's what the OP was planning to do)


They are defo a 'load up the hopper' type grinder


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## coffeechap (Apr 5, 2012)

You can't switch readily between beans, by that I mean consecutive shots of different coffees using the Mythos


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

thanks for getting back on point, I'm glad at lest one person on hear can vouch for the r58. I already am stretching the budget considering 8 weeks ago it was 500 pounds for a machine and grinder. iv missed out on the mythos, it was a little too big for kitchen foot print and height. I take it you had a r58 before the r60 scott. the steam power worries me a little, iv read that its week for making good mico foam and texturing milk. how would you compere it to the v60.


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

scottgough said:


> Back to the original question on this thread, Rocket Machine, I'd have no problem recommending, the R58s a cracker, new or used. Fausto grinder... They're good, but, you can do better, either buy something used (aka the Mythos!) or stretch the budget a little bit and go Compak E8 or E10. That's my view


thanks for getting back on point, I'm glad at lest one person on hear can vouch for the r58. I already am stretching the budget considering 8 weeks ago it was 500 pounds for a machine and grinder. iv missed out on the mythos, it was a little too big for kitchen foot print and height. I take it you had a r58 before the r60 scott. the steam power worries me a little, iv read that its week for making good mico foam and texturing milk. how would you compere it to the v60.


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

The steaming @Daren


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

I can only speak for the Rocket Giotto Evo - firstly, it differs by being a hx machine, that aside - I've never had cause to complain about the steaming abilities. Loads of constant power which makes microfoam as good as any I've tasted from commercial machines. As with any machine though it's only as good as it's operator so you'll need to practice to hone the art.

Have a look at some of my posts and you'll see some of the latte art possible from a kak handed wazzak like me - I'm sure you'll be capable of smashing out much better in no time with your eyes shut


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## Daren (Jan 16, 2012)

Oh - forgot to say - Rocket and Mythos are a fantastic combo. Yes I am biased. Take off the hopper and use a tube instead and it's total height is about the same as the Rocket


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## Mrboots2u (May 10, 2013)

@froggystyle


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## David-j (Jun 15, 2016)

thanks daren.

I know im going to be make bad coffee foe a while. but that's all part of the fun mastering the art. iv read that the Giotto if better at steaming than the r58. I know I doesn't make sense with it been a db. the mythos has been snapped up now but thanks for your input. nice to see some positive words about the rocket machines


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## froggystyle (Oct 30, 2013)

Had no problems with the steam power on my r58, cracking machine, does what you need with no fuss, think i have only ever played with the pid once.

Get to BB and have a look at all the machines, book an appointment and tell them what machines you would like to try, i went with the intention of buying the duetto but opted for the rocket instead.

Grinder wise i also have the E10 and cant complain about it at all.


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## 4085 (Nov 23, 2012)

David, lets put this in perspective. It does not matter what make of coffee machine you have, it is you making the shot not the machine. No one could do a blind test and say cup A id made on a Rocket and cup B something else.

Texturing milk is an art and you have to learn it. About the only machine which seems to help beginners is my favourite chestnut the Sage DB. Do not get hung up on shine. Do not believe that one machine will do something the other will not because it will not. Sure, db machines usually have pids and you can tweak the temp....yeah,m right!

The grinder is far more important than the machine. The machine is like an oven....irt cooks whatever you put in


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## scottgough (Feb 9, 2016)

I had a Giotto Evoluzione prior to my R60, but I don't think you'd need to worry about am R58 lacking steam power.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

R58 has plenty of steam power - maybe not quite as quick as a Quickmill or Alex Izzo Duetto but still good. Some people take the 'no burn' liner out of the steam wand to derestrict it further (at the risk of burnt fingers lol) but I don't find mine lacking. I also don't tend to fiddle about with the PID, I like what it produces and can't be bothered adding in another variable, waiting for the temp to truly equalise and all that - it was good having one on my old Classic but I leave it alone on the Rocket.

My choice was somewhat swayed - I was offered my R58 as lightly used and thoroughly tested and maintained from on here, at a good price, where if I'd wanted a QM or Izzo or whatever I'd have had to buy new or wait longer for the right one to come up. Had the used machine been either of the other 2 I'd have been equally happy, though IMO the R58 looks the nicest (subjective obviously). Still really chuffed with it.


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