# VST Baskets



## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

New to all this. getting a Fracino Piccino next week. Trying to get my head around VST Baskets and there sizes? Can anyone help. What is a Fracino double basket is it 15, and what do all the VST size baskets do?


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

I have the stock Fracino double basket and a 15g VST. Oddly enough I was playing with my Fracino basket earlier this morning and happily fitted about 17g in it.

The VST baskets are designed specifically to hold a certain dose (i.e. 15g, 18g etc) and function best at that dose, giving a better extraction.

Generally the shape of the VST baskets allow for more even extraction, due to straight sides, identical hole diameters and such like.

I would use the Fracino basket for a good while till you get your technique and palate tuned in then consider the possible benefits a VST basket might add.

Not a good first move, to start off using VSTs as they are very picky about dose, distribution and tamp technique.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Whats a standard size double basket for a Fracino. is it 15g?

This may be a stupid question. But what would the difference be between a 15g and 18g. is it strength


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## fatboyslim (Sep 29, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> Whats a standard size double basket for a Fracino. is it 15g?
> 
> This may be a stupid question. But what would the difference be between a 15g and 18g. is it strength


Yes...more coffee = stronger drink (or more volume).

I was talking about the standard Fracino double basket and I think it can take anywhere from 15-18g, you'd just need to adjust the grind.

Clearly one of these weights will work better in this basket, for a better extraction.

Mostly basket size depends on personal preference.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks for your help. How do you find the VST compared to the standard basket?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

The VST will do a better job of extracting a coffee. I used to be of the understanding it was better full stop, but I actually find (to my palate) that certain coffees taste better in other baskets.

Choosing 7, 15, 18 , 20 or 22g VST will depend on target beverage size, however myself and other forum members find slightly different cup profiles between sizes


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Hi Gary,

I have spent the last few hours looking on forums etc trying to figure out the various baskets. So if I was replacing my basket I guess I would swap it for the VST 15. Is that correct?

When you say target beverage size.. What cup size would you use the 18 on? Higher then a 10oz cup?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

I personally use my 15g VST for 20-25g extractions and an EP HQ double basket which fits 17 or 18g of coffee for 25-32g extractions. I find Lighter more acidic coffees work better in the smaller VST and richer deeper roasted coffee I favour the larger basket. This all a result of trial and error and following my palate.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> Thanks for your help. How do you find the VST compared to the standard basket?


VST encourage even extraction as the holes are precision drilled and are uniform across the basket, if you dose correctly and use a 58.4ml flat tamper you'll get the ideal results as recommended by VST I however chose a 58.3 c-flat and am not disappointed with the results.

also you need a tighter grind for a VST basket than standard baskets. All in all I would absolutely recommend using them.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

So is it ok to pt more that 15g into a 15g VST or would you then move up to a 18g?


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## forzajuve (Feb 2, 2011)

I think VST baskets are designed for +/- 1g, so maximum 16g would be the job. I usually go 15.5-16g in my 15g to get a dryer puck but will vary by bean.


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

I just bought 18's as they give me the flexibility to dose as little or as much as I like within reason, if you have a 15 you could always buy an 18 as a extra little bit for yourself but that would be a want over a need, unless of course you are scorching the top of the puck each time you load the basket.


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Stock double baskets are often designed to hold the Italian standard double dose of 14g. However, depending upon the group head design of the machine, the basket is usually capable of physically accommodating a much larger dose (17 - 20g depending upon the machine and coffee used).

Each basket has an inherent resistence to brew water passing through it relating to the surface area of holes on the bottom. The resistence offered by the stock basket itself is quite high as it is designed for 14g doses. This means that if the dose is increased, e.g. to 18g then a coarser grind must be adopted to offset the additional resistence caused by the higher dose. This can lead to underextraction of the coffee especially with denser coffees and lighter roasts.

VST have produced baskets offering optimal resistence for specific doses of coffee i.e. the 18g basket has a lower inherent resistence than the 15g basket to offset the larger dose. This allows a fine grind to still be used with larger doses of coffee.

Additionally, all VST baskets are precision engineered so that all holes are a uniform size and the straight sides tend to promote a more even extraction.

I agree with Gary that the higher resistence of non VST baskets can actually sometimes be useful as it allows the pour rate to be slowed without having to increase the surface area of the coffee by grinding finer.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Was looking on madebyknock site and they make 58.35 tamper for the VST baskets. Just wondering do I need a different tamper? as most tampers on coffee hot are standard size? I currently have the standard fracino steel tamper free with my machine....Is it worth spending anymore money on a new tamper?


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> Was looking on madebyknock site and they make 58.35 tamper for the VST baskets. Just wondering do I need a different tamper? as most tampers on coffee hot are standard size? I currently have the standard fracino steel tamper free with my machine....Is it worth spending anymore money on a new tamper?


VST recomend a 58.4 Flat, I went with 58.3 to play safe from Reg Barber, it is much better than my regular 58, so I would say from my experience yes, although I am now looking for a 58.4 ripple base, that's more me wanting a new toy though.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

What site did you get it from?


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## Milesy (Mar 8, 2012)

chrisdunstan said:


> Was looking on madebyknock site and they make 58.35 tamper for the VST baskets. Just wondering do I need a different tamper? as most tampers on coffee hot are standard size? I currently have the standard fracino steel tamper free with my machine....Is it worth spending anymore money on a new tamper?


I have the madebyknock VST tamper and find it really good. One single straight down tamp is all I need. No knocking the sides or polishing afterwards. Along with the basket has made my shots much more consistent. I am only fighting grinder and temperature variables now


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Forgot to ask...whats the difference between, ripple, curve etc?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

VST baskets ideally suit a 58.3 -58.4mm tamper - I believe 58.35mm is the optimum although I use a 58.4 which works well.

The tampers usually supplied with espresso machines range from next to useless to poor. An after market tamper will allow you to more easily achieve a level tamp using consistent pressure. It will also be much more comfortable to use which is especially important if you are using it frequently. Finally and perhaps most importantly an after market tamper can be selected to perfectly fit and suit the filter basket you are using and your tamping style. This is very important as most tampers are approximately 57 or 58mm and so leave a gap in VST baskets, not covering the whole coffee puck surface. Some people believe that even 0.3mm difference in size can make a percentage difference to extraction.

Most tampers have either curved/convex bases or flat bases. Opinions are divided as to which is best although most agree that flat works best for VST baskets. I used a c-flat for a while which is a hybrid (flat in the middle and curved slightly towards the edges) which works okay in VST baskets. A ripple is basically a flat with ridges cut into it designed to increase the surface area of the puck.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> What site did you get it from?


Got it direct from reg barber, fully custom to your needs and had just won a twitter comp so he split the postage too. some say different tampers are purely a matter of choice, however others say, that some work better with a particular machine, I curve for example creates a little well in the middle of the basket, a ripple increases surface area and by creating more possible fracture points encourages more even extraction. as theres not just one week point that the water finds to channel through.

Plenty will argue that I am wrong but it's each to there own


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Its all interesting stuff...best start saving! Noticed square mile have added even more choice to VST baskets! eeeek....What two would be best to go with. Was defiantly getting the 15g. But what would the next one be good to get 18g 20g or 22g?


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## garydyke1 (Mar 9, 2011)

Ive tried both 58mm and 58.7mm TORR bases in my VST. better edge-sealing on the bigger base and less messy. End result in the cup wasnt vastly different tho


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

chrisdunstan said:


> Its all interesting stuff...best start saving! Noticed square mile have added even more choice to VST baskets! eeeek....What two would be best to go with. Was defiantly getting the 15g. But what would the next one be good to get 18g 20g or 22g?


I have a 15g and 18g and use them to produce different volumes of espresso. However, I find that the baskets require different grinds and produce slightly different taste profiles.

How much do you usually dose in a stock basket?

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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Have only had my machine for a week. At the moment its 18g...have not tried anymore to be honest.


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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

An off topic question. Was watching the barista world championship on web last night. How do they work out the dosing when making drinks? are they using the timing function?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

18g VST might be good to go for then. Alternatively you could wait and see how you find the 15g.

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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

Does anyone know if the La Marzocco Strada Baskets sold directly on the La Marzocco site. http://www.lamarzocco.it/lmeshop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=70&category_id=2&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=5

are the same as the VST strada ones on coffee hit?

http://www.coffeehit.co.uk/la-marzocco-strada-basket-17g/p863


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

Yes the LM Strada baskets are essentially the same as those produced by VST.

The baskets were designed and developed jointly by LM and VST and both companies went on to sell the baskets independently.

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## CoffeeChris (Dec 2, 2011)

thanks...was unsure because of the price difference...so much cheaper getting them direct!


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## CoffeeJohnny (Feb 28, 2011)

Sorry if already answered are 15g simply shallower than the 18's if so anyone want to swap an 18 for a 15?


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## jimbow (Oct 13, 2011)

15g are indeed shallower than 18g (same width) but the 15g also has smaller holes on the bottom and so offers greater inherent resistance to the brew water (offsetting the lower resistance of the smaller dose).


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## RobD (May 2, 2012)

I have just noticed that there is a retailer selling the La Marzocco VST baskets on ebay for £16 plus £3 delivery, http://http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/La-Marzocco-VST-Strada-21g-Precision-Filter-Basket-/120944125947?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item1c28d4e7fb#ht_869wt_1105 doesn't look to be a bad price, shame i have already got some direct from La Marzocco


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## BLrdFX (Nov 6, 2012)

jimbow said:


> 15g are indeed shallower than 18g (same width) but the 15g also has smaller holes on the bottom and so offers greater inherent resistance to the brew water (offsetting the lower resistance of the smaller dose).


I am using a complete range of VST baskets with my La Marzocco GS/3 MP. I have the 7, 15, 18, 20 and 22 gram. The 7 gr is the only one with a ridge and I got it just to try it; not worth the hassle. The ridge-less are soooo much easier to get the puck out.

Yes, the VST baskets require a different grind setting than the OEM LM baskets.


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