# Going crazy with Aeropress :)



## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

I bought an Aeropress about 10-15 days ago.

Since then, I haven't managed to make a single cup that was good. My $30 drip machine is dramatically better while being terrible.

There are a few important points:

- I can only have decaf, which limits the bean choices
- I do not have a scale
- I have an infrared thermometer for water temperature.
- I have a grinder that is very old, but still built after electricity was invented.
- I bought an Able metal filter too.

I tried various online recipes, but all with bad results, so I have to assume that the problem is specific to my setup.

Today, I decided to make a lot of tests and post them. I would be very happy to get feedback and suggestions:

The beans:

- Tchibo decaf, whole beans
- Illy decaf, whole beans
- Machu Pichu decaf, pre-ground
- Pellini Top decaf, pre-ground
- Illy decaf, pre-ground

No matter what I tried, Machu Pichu was so bad, I decided to eliminate it from the tests.

So I decided to set the following protocol to have some constants:

- Inverted Method
- Grind:
- Pre-ground
- Thick sand
- Thinner than table salt
- Coffee grounds will fill 1 cup space on the Aeropress
- Temperatures of 80c and 90c depending on the test
- Standard paper filter, pre-wet
- Pour times:
- 1 cup space, 30 sec, press, add hot water
- 1 cup space, 30 sec, fill the rest of the press, 60sec, press

and I've spend the afternoon trying most configurations and tasting 

Here's what I found:

- Despite what I kept reading online, water temperature made almost no perceptible change in taste.
- Pre-ground coffee was systematically more flavorful and since I have one of them (Illy) both in bean and in ground form I could really make a good comparison. So right here, this means that my grinder is an issue.

- Thicker and thinner grinds were the same. So I assume it's because my grinder is not consistent and confirms I need a better one.
- Shorter brews were significantly less bitter, but subsequent dilution doesn't allow to make much before ruining the taste.
- All coffees were very watery / thin, so I assumed it's typical for the Aeropress (since I like thick coffee better, that's why I bought the metal filter)

To me the Illy coffee tasted the best followed by Pellini Top. I threw every single cup of Tchibo.

But they all had the same characteristics:

- very little texture, very watery
- no deep flavors
- burnt aftertaste

So, essentially they tasted like water with a burnt aftertaste. The smell was also very bitter, no nice aroma.
And that's across all brands.

Today I made around 25-30 combinations to get to the bottom of it and none of them were good. They were bad enough that if I had paid for them in a stop, I'd complain and ask for something else. Every single one of them.

But people rave about the Aeropress, so I am obviously doing something very wrong; the frustrating part is that I have really tried to approach it methodically to understand the issue, and only confirmed that my grinder is crap (which I could guess looking at it).

I'm ready to experiment and report, what should I try?


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

Have you tried any decent beans? Those all sound like over-roasted supermarket fare.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

We're stuck in the middle of deep Poland right now, and I can only have decaf so that limits my options. I have a hard time to imagine they're all bad though 

But if you have anything decaf to suggest that I can get delivered by Amazon, etc, please let me know, I will order them and test.


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## TomHughes (Dec 16, 2019)

thomasd3 said:


> We're stuck in the middle of deep Poland right now, and I can only have decaf so that limits my options. I have a hard time to imagine they're all bad though
> 
> But if you have anything decaf to suggest that I can get delivered by Amazon, etc, please let me know, I will order them and test.


 I'd say they are likely to be all bad to be honest. 
Were the beans packed in a vacuum pack? 
They were probably roasted 6 months-12 months ago and so will be stale and dead. I've personally found decaf much worse for this. 
@MWJBmight have some ideas though!


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

TomHughes said:


> I'd say they are likely to be all bad to be honest.
> Were the beans packed in a vacuum pack?
> They were probably roasted 6 months-12 months ago and so will be stale and dead. I've personally found decaf much worse for this.
> @MWJBmight have some ideas though!


 Not without scales, or at least a tablespoon/Aeropress scoop measure.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

@TomHughes, the Illy ones and the Pellini Top came in some vacuum metal containers. The MachuPichu and Tchibo in sealed bags, but it didn't look packed like vaccum bags.

@MWJB, I have the aeropress scoop. All tests I did had 1.5 scoop of coffee (which works out to about 1 cup level in the cylinder. I can definitely get a scale on Amazon if that will make a difference. I assumed the scoop and water measure would bring enough consistency.

I guess the main question through all these tests is the consistently bad result. If I had something half decent and then tweaks would help, I'd have narrowed it down, but pretty much all the brews were so off that I have no idea what to do 

It is possible that the beans are all low quality, but Illy for example is everywhere in Italy and I had their coffee in bars, etc and had no complaints about it. I'm not expecting them to be amazing, but right now I'm shooting for drinkable without wincing.

The drip machine did better than the Aeropress, so the grind size / consistency may be a major factor. This is compounded by the fact that pre-ground Illy tastes better than the self-ground one. As I have both ground and beans from Illy, it was easy to compare side by side.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

You should be able to get something drinkable with the Illy or Cafe Direct.

Use 1 level scoop. Pour water right off the boil into the AP, stir a few times as quickly as you can after adding the water. Cover the top of the Aeropress, or (after making sure that there is no possibility of leakage) fit the cap with a paper filter (or paper on top of the Able disc) & flip the AP over a cup...look to make sure there are no dry clods stuck to the plunger, if there are , give it a few swirls to wash them off.

Leave it for 3min minimum...20 would be best, or as long as you can before it is too cool to enjoy. Remove the plunger to allow it to start to drain under gravity, then press slowly, stop as you see the bed of coffee revealed by the water.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

how much water would you put for the 1 level scoop?

I'll try to replicate this both with pre-ground and self-ground Illy beans to see the difference


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## Stu Beck (May 31, 2020)

Agree with the advice from @MWJB - you should be able to get a drinkable cup! Surely there is a roaster in Poland that can send some fresh decaf beans?

One scoop of beans is typically 14g and filling the aeropress all the way up works out about 220-230g of water, which is close enough to the 60g per litre typically recommended for filter. I fill inverted, then place the cap on and flip before letting it brew for some time before plunging.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

I just did a few tests since @MWJB's answer:

- Illy pre-ground, 1 level scoop, 2 cylinder markings of water, 4min
- Illy self-ground, 1 level scoop, 2 cylinder markings of water, 4min

pre-ground is definitely better than self-ground, so I'm going to get a grinder.

Unfortunately I do not have the vocabulary to express the part of the taste I have issue with, so bear with me. I will compare it to shots from Starbucks since their methods are pretty standard so I guess everyone is familiar with the taste, like McDonalds. I understand it doesn't use the same process, but it'll help to have something standard for the sake of comparison.

The first thing is that mine is more fluid, theirs is thicker, with more viscosity.
The smell of mine seems very 'narrow', as if there were less components to the aroma. Theirs has a more complex smell where some parts are strong but others are soft and seem to linger in the nose; whereas mine smells exactly like when my grandma would re-heat yesterday's coffee in the microwave. It just smells like bitterness and pretty much no other notes.
In the mouth the Starbucks shots will impart flavor on the tongue and that flavor remains. Mine feels watery, the flavor doesn't stay at all. I guess it's probably the difference in oils since I'm doing all these tests with a paper filter vs. the unfiltered espresso.

The aftertaste is where the difference is even more striking. I always thought Starbucks' coffee had that burnt flavor I wasn't a fan of; but with mine, the aftertaste has nothing left but the bitterness, the beverage's taste is gone, I can't feel it anymore.

If I had to summarize it, I'd say it's watery, not bold at all and bitter in the end.

So I tried to add extra water to the beverage, after the press because the taste seemed quite strong. While the main taste is less intense, the bitter aftertaste remained.

I have to say that cheap supermarket instant decaf, which are Robusta beans so it's a bit different than the various Arabicas I bought now, tastes better.

The main difference I have vs. most people is that I'm using decaf beans. That could also be the problem, the rest is probably pretty standard and I can't find the culprit.


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## BlackCatCoffee (Apr 11, 2017)

I would suggest ditching the metal filter and using the paper filters.

I prefer the inverted method with Aeropress if you haven't given that a go it might be worth a try.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

@BlackCatCoffee, I'm doing all tests with paper filter, to remove one variable.

Also, I'm using the inverted method too; I don't like to push some of the water out just to put the piston inside the cylinder


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

@thomasd3 you mention starbucks, you won't be able to make an espresso shot with Aeropress. Most folk use it for filter style coffee. Espresso needs percolation under pressure to get the strength and tp dissolve the CO2 into the drink.

If you need to add water to the finished brew, this suggests you should actually be brewing with more water in the first place (like filter coffee) & not needing to add more water after. So try a scoop to more water & leave it longer, even if you used a fair bit of water it should sty hot for 10-15mins easily & you can always preheat the cup.

Forget oils, they're not relevant to flavour, just mouthfeel.


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

MWJB said:


> @thomasd3 you mention starbucks, you won't be able to make an espresso shot with Aeropress. Most folk use it for filter style coffee. Espresso needs percolation under pressure to get the strength and tp dissolve the CO2 into the drink.
> 
> If you need to add water to the finished brew, this suggests you should actually be brewing with more water in the first place (like filter coffee) & not needing to add more water after. So try a scoop to more water & leave it longer, even if you used a fair bit of water it should sty hot for 10-15mins easily & you can always preheat the cup.
> 
> ...


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

I'm not expecting an espresso, but that was for comparison as it's a well know taste.

With the brews I am doing, I definitely need more water afterwards. A bunch of the recipes I saw online seems to brew with little water and then add some after the press, so I assumed it was a normal procedure with the Aeropress.

I will try 1 scoop, and fill the cylinder with water. Does the extraction taper off quickly, where 3 minutes and 5 minutes are more similar to each other than let's say 30 sec and 1min?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

thomasd3 said:


> I'm not expecting an espresso, but that was for comparison as it's a well know taste.
> 
> With the brews I am doing, I definitely need more water afterwards. A bunch of the recipes I saw online seems to brew with little water and then add some after the press, so I assumed it was a normal procedure with the Aeropress.
> 
> I will try 1 scoop, and fill the cylinder with water. Does the extraction taper off quickly, where 3 minutes and 5 minutes are more similar to each other than let's say 30 sec and 1min?


 Extraction decreases logarithmically over time, which is pain with immersions as you normally just want more. 30sec isn't an extraction. 3min is some. 15min is a little bit more than 3 or 5, but a little counts for lot when you're trying to creep into the tasty range.

Adding more water after the brew just adjusts the strength back to what it should be to begin with, but adds an unnecessary opportunity to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. So just add the water you want to end up with in the first place.


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## PortafilterProcrastinator (Aug 26, 2020)

For what its worth (I am no expert) I have turned my aeropress approach on its head since seeing @MWJB 's advice.

15-20minute steeps (not gone longer yet, too impatient) with a ratio of 55-60g/L - I can fit 250ml in my aeropress with 13.75-15g of coffee.

Inverted, I am currently adding 50ml water, then the coffee, then the rest of the water. Leave for 10mins covered. Put the filter on. Flip and draw back to stop leakage. Then leave for a while longer and plunge. I'm on my fifth use of my current filter, which is a new one for me. Seems fine. Taste wise I have got the best results so far with this method. I haven't done any experimenting for a few weeks due to life, but hope to get some new beans over the next week or so and start experimenting again.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

I have ordered a scale; as soon as it arrives, I will try that exact recipe and report here!


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

so, I have a scale.. but I discovered that in Poland batteries are never included with devices! I'm not used to that 

In the meantime, I've tried long brew times and the taste has dramatically gotten better with the Illy coffee (the machu pichu one is still disgusting no matter what )

when I have the battery for the scale I'll try to do things precisely and report here.


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## hotmetal (Oct 31, 2013)

I echo the long steep inverted method. Scales will help you nail and repeat it. However I generally find that if you use the aeropress scoop to measure your whole beans, that's pretty close to ideal with a full aeropress with just enough space to get the rubber plunger in. Using the scoop with grounds will probably mean too much coffee, which is then prone to under extracting.

___

Eat, drink and be merry.

Rocket R58, Ceado E37S, Aeropress, Aergrind, Torr Goldfinger flat and convex.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

I have the scale all set up:

with my prehistorical grinder, a full aeropress scoop of ground coffee represents 15.5g.

so that I understand well: the scoop of coffee should be a scoop of beans, NOT a scoop of ground beans, is that correct? I didn't weight the un-ground beans (and I'm travelling right ow), but I assume if I grind a scoop of beans, I'd probably end up with 12-13g of ground coffee.

I've done the long steep with full water and found the sweet spot seems to be 12-13 min.

But I'm now really questioning the beans themselves: The smell is an integral part of the coffee experience and when I smell the brew in the press, it is very pungent and not attractive. Since I tried a few brands, maybe the issue is about finding good decaf coffee. Instant decaf smells tremendously better (although they're normally Robusta not Arabica, so the smell is different)


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

thomasd3 said:


> .
> 
> But I'm now really questioning the beans themselves: The smell is an integral part of the coffee experience and when I smell the brew in the press, it is very pungent and not attractive. Since I tried a few brands, maybe the issue is about finding good decaf coffee. Instant decaf smells tremendously better (although they're normally Robusta not Arabica, so the smell is different)


 The volatiles (smell) decay very quickly, the solids take a long time to extract. Most coffee beverage does not taste like it smells. I'm more concerned with how it tastes.

I only buy decaf Arabica, most commonly Colombian EA (sugarane) decaf.

Your scoop should be a full, level scoop of ground coffee at the grind size you use for that method.


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

can you post some link of decafs to try? so far all brands I've tried are more common / supermarket kind and, for the rest, I have no idea what is good vs. fancy packaging 

I also read that the amount of pressure put on the plunger will affect the extraction and taste; is there really a big difference?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

thomasd3 said:


> can you post some link of decafs to try? so far all brands I've tried are more common / supermarket kind and, for the rest, I have no idea what is good vs. fancy packaging
> 
> I also read that the amount of pressure put on the plunger will affect the extraction and taste; is there really a big difference?


 What kind of flavours appeal to you? E.g. I currently have Crankhouse El Carmen decaf (orange/citrus hints & fudge), you might also consider HasBean La Chorrera decaf (cherry, milk choc, orange) a bit bolderr than the Crankhouse.

https://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/coffee/products/deaf-colombia-la-chorrera

https://www.crankhousecoffee.co.uk/products/el-carmen-decaf

Pressure & speed of plunge will have almost no bearing on extraction. The extraction mostly happens when the coffee & water are sitting together, Aeropress is not normally used as a percolation brewer (which washes out solubles, rather than soaking them out), there is only a small percolation contribution at end of steep. Too aggressive plunging can flush silt out into the cup that is bittering, I prefer not to press through to the hiss for the same reason. (Silt is not included in extraction, technically speaking).


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

thanks, I will try both!

I just noticed that these sites don't take credit cards, so I'll sort that out in the next days. I'll try and report here!


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## samlawton (Oct 24, 2020)

MWJB said:


> You should be able to get something drinkable with the Illy or Cafe Direct.
> 
> Use 1 level scoop. Pour water right off the boil into the AP, stir a few times as quickly as you can after adding the water. Cover the top of the Aeropress, or (after making sure that there is no possibility of leakage) fit the cap with a paper filter (or paper on top of the Able disc) & flip the AP over a cup...look to make sure there are no dry clods stuck to the plunger, if there are , give it a few swirls to wash them off.
> 
> Leave it for 3min minimum...20 would be best, or as long as you can before it is too cool to enjoy. Remove the plunger to allow it to start to drain under gravity, then press slowly, stop as you see the bed of coffee revealed by the water.


 This changed the game for me when I read it as a lurker so just wanted to say thank you now I've joined - I'd never have thought to leave it that long but it makes a great difference, I can finally appreciate the different taste to the pre-ground I've bought - only problem is I now need to try them all again with this method!


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## Stu Beck (May 31, 2020)

I've had the El Carmen from James Gourmet and it was 😋

Will try the Villa Maria next time:

https://jamesgourmetcoffee.com/filter-profile-coffee/


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## thomasd3 (Oct 6, 2020)

There is one thing I do not understand:

Since it looks like the right strategy is to let the brew sit for ~15min, and that the plunger pressure has no effect, what is the effective difference between the aeropress and a French press then?


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## MWJB (Feb 28, 2012)

thomasd3 said:


> There is one thing I do not understand:
> 
> Since it looks like the right strategy is to let the brew sit for ~15min, and that the plunger pressure has no effect, what is the effective difference between the aeropress and a French press then?


 Aeropress has better filtration, but more generally the tangible difference is you pour water onto the coffee in a French press, then the grounds mostly sink & collect in the bottom, at end of brew you then pour the beverage off the top of the bed. With Aeropress you separate the beverage from the grounds by draining the coffee through the bed (as you do with vac pot & Clever Dripper).

So, all in all, if you're getting good results, there isn't much difference beyond a slightly cleaner cup with AP.


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